# Wedge tip for bore cutting backleaners



## Nailsbeats (Jan 29, 2010)

Here's a little tip I'd like to pass on since I haven't seen it mentioned on this site. 

Make your face cut, bore your backcut, set up your hinge thickness, cut towards the back leaving a strap of holding wood, pull out saw and place wedges in the backcut. Trip the strap by cutting in from the back but below your backcut a bit. 

Here's the tip: slip a wedge or two into the trip cut so that it'll be supported while you pound your other wedges driving the tree over without any chance of setback and full wedge pounding efficiency.


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## 056 kid (Jan 29, 2010)

how is that easier than a regular back cut with a wedge or two as soonas you can fitem in.


What you explain is like your cuttin a strong head leaner, but you use wedges cause its a back leaner, I no get-ee...


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## clearance (Jan 29, 2010)

056 kid said:


> how is that easier than a regular back cut with a wedge or two as soonas you can fitem in.
> 
> 
> What you explain is like your cuttin a strong head leaner, but you use wedges cause its a back leaner, I no get-ee...



I no understand too, are you falling a tree against its lean?


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## logging22 (Jan 29, 2010)

opcorn:


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## Dayto (Jan 30, 2010)

No Offence,

But as a Westcoast faller we rely on maby 3 Cuts , but down south they got some crazy ways of cutting .... i get confused sometimes just reading it id probally puke watching it.


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## 056 kid (Jan 30, 2010)

Hey, I consider my self a down south cutter, but thoes crazy methods ar not me!

most east coast old timers believe that faces alone are over rated haha. you will find them match cutting most stuff. .


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## slowp (Jan 30, 2010)

Me no faller, me no understand---period.


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## Gologit (Jan 30, 2010)

Maybe he meant to post in the Homeowner thread and just got mixed up.


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## flushcut (Jan 30, 2010)

*backleaners*

I get what he is saying but I don't see it being any better that the normal way. I mean why would leave a strap to hold up the tree to get a wedge in, maybe dude is cutting small wood in a pulp land.


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## Gologit (Jan 30, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> When did so many homeowners start to populate the Forestry and logging forum?



I don't know but there sure seems to be a lot of them. It's okay...as long as they don't talk too much.


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## slowp (Jan 30, 2010)

I'm almost a homeowner. The bank owns a chunk of it too. I'll go away now.


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## Ed*L (Jan 30, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> What's to be confused about? It's a pretty clear explanation of a technique used to get wedges in place on a 'backleaner'. I saw it demonstrated by some guys from Stihl back in the eighties and have used it a few times myself. I always place pull ropes high in the tree if there is any chance of property damage but if no high value targets are behind the tree it's a good woods felling technique for a backleaner.
> 
> When did so many homeowners start to populate the Forestry and logging forum?


 
Sorry, but if its leaning that far back where I can't put a wedge in, I'll set a cable in it.

Ed


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## joesawer (Jan 31, 2010)

Sounds like a monkey with a football to me.
there is absolutely no need for a strap in smething that needs to be wedged over. Even in high risk residential settings.
Not to mention the strap would be right in the way of the best place to put the wedge.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

flushcut said:


> I get what he is saying but I don't see it being any better that the normal way. I mean why would leave a strap to hold up the tree to get a wedge in, maybe dude is cutting small wood in a pulp land.


.

. Welcome to the Loggin Side, Flush Cut ;.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

slowp said:


> I'm almost a homeowner. The bank owns a chunk of it too. I'll go away now.




.
.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::help:


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

*Knowing you have to , and knowing you can .*

If you know you have to wedge over a tree and it,s not big enough to face up first . put your back cut in first and as soon as you can put 2 wedges in it . back cut around 2/3 rds while keeping the wedges pounded up tight , then put in the face leaving a good size holding wood , and if needed take your tip and cut out the center of your holding wood . finish wedging the tree over ...
.
. Remember , a wedge is tight when it doesn't keep going in well ......Don,t over beat a wedge , use more ...
.
. No doubt the method first described is quite secure . but there are other ways that work better ...and are just as secure ..


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## slowp (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> If you know you have to wedge over a tree and it,s not big enough to face up first . put your back cut in first and as soon as you can put 2 wedges in it . back cut around 2/3 rds while keeping the wedges pounded up tight , then put in the face leaving a good size holding wood , and if needed take your tip and cut out the center of your holding wood . finish wedging the tree over ...
> .
> . Remember , a wedge is tight when it doesn't keep going in well ......Don,t over beat a wedge , use more ...
> .
> . No doubt the method first described is quite secure . but there are other ways that work better ...and are just as secure ..



Ahhh. Thanks. I've tried to understand that. I had a small maple sit back on my saw. A guy told me about doing that the next day, but I didn't understand because I usually need to see things done to understand. But, I do now.


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## logbutcher (Feb 8, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> When did so many homeowners start to populate the Forestry and logging forum?





Gologit said:


> I don't know but there sure seems to be a lot of them. It's okay...as long as they don't talk too much.



So sorry that you guys are homeless ( not homeowners ). Sad. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## WidowMaker (Feb 8, 2010)

Made perfect sense to me.....


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## clearance (Feb 8, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> If you know you have to wedge over a tree and it,s not big enough to face up first . put your back cut in first and as soon as you can put 2 wedges in it . back cut around 2/3 rds while keeping the wedges pounded up tight , then put in the face leaving a good size holding wood , and if needed take your tip and cut out the center of your holding wood . finish wedging the tree over ...
> .
> . Remember , a wedge is tight when it doesn't keep going in well ......Don,t over beat a wedge , use more ...
> .
> . No doubt the method first described is quite secure . but there are other ways that work better ...and are just as secure ..



This is correct, done it many times. WTF do arborists think they are fallers?:monkey:


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## fredmc (Feb 8, 2010)

On small trees I cut a face and bore straight through the face the width of the bar, pound a wedge in from the back and cut the two holding straps. At least that way it is easier for me to gun the face cut.


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## Burvol (Feb 8, 2010)

clearance said:


> This is correct, done it many times. WTF do arborists think they are fallers?:monkey:



Cause they have the "over-sized" dawgs on their saw :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gologit (Feb 8, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Cause they have the "over-sized" dawgs on their saw :hmm3grin2orange:



I hear that some of them are stagging off their pants and wearing suspenders now. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Feb 8, 2010)

Gologit said:


> I hear that some of them are stagging off their pants and wearing suspenders now. :hmm3grin2orange:



Round people have to wear suspenders. Otherwise they will have people singing that song that was all over the tv a couple weeks ago.


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## Dayto (Feb 8, 2010)

Nothing better then watching a bunch of Arborist Attempt of a logging/Falling Contract.. 
They dont understand there is a big difference between us fallers and them.

SKILL KEEPS US FALLERS ALIVE , Ropes and winches keep them alive.


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## clearance (Feb 8, 2010)

Dayto said:


> Nothing better then watching a bunch of Arborist Attempt of a logging/Falling Contract..
> They dont understand there is a big difference between us fallers and them.
> 
> SKILL KEEPS US FALLERS ALIVE , Ropes and winches keep them alive.



They are better than you fallers, and utility guys like me. I have huge respect for some fallers, I have learned much from them. See, the way I see it, when you are ISA certified, it can go straight to your head, and you may think you know it all. I have fell many, many trees, just with an axe, wedges and saw. No rope in every freaking tree, thats cheating, its like training wheels on your peddle bike. Some trees need a rope, but that ain't real falling, it just ain't.:chainsawguy:


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## 056 kid (Feb 8, 2010)

tipping 10'dbh redwoods with yarders is pretty real, but I agree with you, the rest aint.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 9, 2010)

I must be crazy, I have cut thousands of leaners and never once used a bore. I have used a bore to make ash trays,and in bucking to get a saw out or cut planks to make a bridge. I find the bore asking for trouble. If I suspect chair out come the strap binders never a problem.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 9, 2010)

Dayto said:


> Nothing better then watching a bunch of Arborist Attempt of a logging/Falling Contract..
> They dont understand there is a big difference between us fallers and them.
> 
> SKILL KEEPS US FALLERS ALIVE , Ropes and winches keep them alive.



/. DEayto , you need one of them sun balls , but I can,t figure out how to give one and they won,t let me rep ya again right now .. I must go find someother worthy individual ,.....:notrolls2::agree2::biggrinbounce2: .. We better be vewwy vewwy quiet tho .... 
. This is Arborists site .......... Well all get tramped . walkin down the road kickin rocks MAD and talkin to our selves !!!!!


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## slowp (Feb 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> /. DEayto , you need one of them sun balls , but I can,t figure out how to give one and they won,t let me rep ya again right now .. I must go find someother worthy individual ,.....:notrolls2::agree2::biggrinbounce2: .. We better be vewwy vewwy quiet tho ....
> . This is Arborists site .......... Well all get tramped . walkin down the road kickin rocks MAD and talkin to our selves !!!!!



I thought only we lonely foresters talked to ourselves? 

Here is a tree that was bored into by helicopter fallers. You may want to discuss the technique.







If you had wished to use ropes and winches, well, it would be a bit of a pack in. Not horribly steep, unless one is from the east of Montana, but a bit of a ways up the hill.


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## hutch3912 (Feb 9, 2010)

*bore*

Up here the CLP teaches the bore cut as the primary way to cut. Cut the face, if its a large tree bore the front from the middle, bore in from the side stick a wedge in, undercut beneath the wedge and drop the tree. Leaving the last bit of hold wood allows for a stand so the tree can't rock back on you and when your only dealing with 10-15" hardwoods of high value its the best way to go. No fiber pull, no excess that has to be trimmed off the but because the face is so shallow, and unbelievable control of direction so the tree doesn't get damaged on its way down. http://www.umaine.edu/universityforests/Collegiate_Game_of_Logging.htm


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## Burvol (Feb 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> I thought only we lonely foresters talked to ourselves?
> 
> Here is a tree that was bored into by helicopter fallers. You may want to discuss the technique.
> 
> ...



His name isn't Larry or Mitch is it? The guy who drills the 1/4" holes in his aribox? If it is, I cut with him a few years ago.


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## hammerlogging (Feb 9, 2010)

hutch3912 said:


> 10-15" hardwoods of high value



??????
Falling isn't yard work, is it.
Aint packin nothin extra into my strip. 

Wouldn't dream of cutting some of our timber without bore cutting.

But those are just lil ol 35-40" red oaks on 70% slopes 

2 days of sleet and snow, minor delay, bird ain't flyin I got time.

Nice box Burv, I have plans for one of my own,I'm thinking back of the bed behind tailgate, bottom slide out drawer with hinged lid for saw storage above. Drawer lid would make a slightly higher work bench than leaning over the tailgate, drawer for parts storage. Space for 3 saws. We'll see.


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## fredmc (Feb 9, 2010)

You guys may hardly ever bore cut out west, because the trees are different. I mean I would love to have a swath of straight conifers to cut. Back here we get alot of strange trees-double/triple stems, offset crowns etc. I'm sayin' it is good to know many techniques for many applications.


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## fredmc (Feb 9, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Gayer than a bag of ####s. I believe ole Joe Currie. He says "Burv they just don't know" when I asked him why you folks out east do the stuff you do.
> 
> I can never get enough of the 18-20" bars in production wood! That is rich. Thanks for the laughs.



I will say this: thanks to you west coast guys I now pack a 24 and depending on the contract I'll pack a 28.

I see alot of Amish around here doing scary things with a 20" bar


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## Burvol (Feb 9, 2010)

I'll just shut up. I deleted my mouth running again. Your welcome. I'll stick to logging, not prunning techniques in the NE.


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## Burvol (Feb 9, 2010)

fredmc said:


> I will say this: thanks to you west coast guys I now pack a 24 and depending on the contract I'll pack a 28.
> 
> I see alot of Amish around here doing scary things with a 20" bar



The really funny thing is, a 90cc powersaw really wakes up and pulls a long bar better with a load on it, not to mention the safety. Good for you!


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## fredmc (Feb 9, 2010)

Burvol said:


> The really funny thing is, a 90cc powersaw really wakes up and pulls a long bar better with a load on it, not to mention the safety. Good for you!



Kinda like having the right tires on your truck ain't it?


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## hammerlogging (Feb 9, 2010)

Burv 10 ####in 4

If I had to double bore every tree I cut I wouldn't get #### done. Usually we are trying to send our trees sidehill, atleast at a 45. If the stem is too big to bor through with a 32" bar, that means you're going to be boring the underside over your head, again. And that sucks. And its tiring, and slow. Cause its steep. If you're running a 24" or a 20", you'll be facing and boring from both sides on EVERY tree. Aint no way to get nothing done.

Longer bars are faster and safer. Even on a 12" spruce with the GOL limbing stuff. 

Ever buck off the top of a hardwood where you have a 35" stem sidehill with the butt 12' in the air on broken ground? KNow what happens when you get that topped? Glad I have a few extra inches, sometimes I wish I had a few extra feet.

Use the most appropriate (safety, and saving wood) and fastest technique available. Different strategies for different occasions. That means not open facing and bore cutting every tree.


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## fredmc (Feb 9, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Use the most appropriate (safety, and saving wood) and fastest technique available. Different strategies for different occasions. That means not open facing and bore cutting every tree.



There it is....


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## hammerlogging (Feb 9, 2010)

answer: cantilever


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## Burvol (Feb 9, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Burv 10 ####in 4
> 
> If I had to double bore every tree I cut I wouldn't get #### done. Usually we are trying to send our trees sidehill, atleast at a 45. If the stem is too big to bor through with a 32" bar, that means you're going to be boring the underside over your head, again. And that sucks. And its tiring, and slow. Cause its steep. If you're running a 24" or a 20", you'll be facing and boring from both sides on EVERY tree. Aint no way to get nothing done.
> 
> ...



I agree, know how and when to use it, and keep it handy for that. We call it "A Strap" or "Strapping a Tree" out here, most common on Pine that are hard leaning.


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## Burvol (Feb 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> /. DEayto , you need one of them sun balls , but I can,t figure out how to give one and they won,t let me rep ya again right now .. I must go find someother worthy individual ,.....:notrolls2::agree2::biggrinbounce2: .. We better be vewwy vewwy quiet tho ....
> . This is Arborists site .......... Well all get tramped . walkin down the road kickin rocks MAD and talkin to our selves !!!!!



I tried to sun ball you (as you so cleverly put it) LOL for the rock kicking bit...I'm out, too damn funny


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## hammerlogging (Feb 9, 2010)

hey burv, I haven't found a good time for wheeling up yet, or when I did, it was too scary for some other reason.

But, wheeling down, here and there. Sometimes I'm glad because instead of the cut collapsing everything stays in place. Other times I feel like I've created a incredible amount of potential energy and think good god this better stay put. All in good fun.

With all our different species, the wood quality effects these practices. Damn basswood is like a sponge, it'll close on your bar just when you're putting in your first face cut, its like an expanding sponge or something, not sure whats going on there. As usual, poplar is the best place to practice.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 9, 2010)

fredmc said:


> You guys may hardly ever bore cut out west, because the trees are different. I mean I would love to have a swath of straight conifers to cut. Back here we get alot of strange trees-double/triple stems, offset crowns etc. I'm sayin' it is good to know many techniques for many applications.



How far west we talking? I have cut thousands upon thousands of leaning trees and never used a bore cut from Michigan to Texas T Iowa and in between. The only extreme chair I have had happen was from Two inch of ice load but that is a bird of a different feather of which I have extensive real time experiance as well. Of course you would flip out to know the ice loaded ones were almost always cut no notch lol.


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## bitzer (Feb 9, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> With all our different species, the wood quality effects these practices. Damn basswood is like a sponge, it'll close on your bar just when you're putting in your first face cut, its like an expanding sponge or something, not sure whats going on there. As usual, poplar is the best place to practice.



Frickin Basswood! I know what you mean. I had one creakin' when gunning the face last week as it tried to sit down on the bar. You can swing them pretty decent though. 

Long bars all day! Full comp on em too!

I think you have to have a lot of tricks in the bag for different species of hardwoods and knowing when to use them. Bore cutting is a necessity in hardoods with crown weights and multiple leans, but not for every damn tree. 

I don't know if you have done this hammer, but its someting I've been thinking about to swing a tree. The lean would be favorable but at about a 10 o'clock postion and you want it to go to about 2 o clock. Also would have to use a humboldt face. Without boring, the tree would go too fast or chair anyway. The Kid put part of the idea in my head and the rest I've been toying with. Bore the back behind the hinge and instead of going all the way to the back leaving a backstrap, pull out and start cutting from the back and leave a post more towards the center. Then line up in a way to cut the post and also have access to the side of the hinge to cut in order to swing the tree when the face starts to close. I may be an idiot and this could be standard practice with you guys, but I'm thinking about trying it. One thing I could see going on is the tree may go too quickly to cut the hinge enough or it may try to take the saw with it, maybe.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 9, 2010)

hutch3912 said:


> Up here the CLP teaches the bore cut as the primary way to cut. Cut the face, if its a large tree bore the front from the middle, bore in from the side stick a wedge in, undercut beneath the wedge and drop the tree. Leaving the last bit of hold wood allows for a stand so the tree can't rock back on you and when your only dealing with 10-15" hardwoods of high value its the best way to go. No fiber pull, no excess that has to be trimmed off the but because the face is so shallow, and unbelievable control of direction so the tree doesn't get damaged on its way down. http://www.umaine.edu/universityforests/Collegiate_Game_of_Logging.htm




.
. How High value is a tree that is 15" on the stump ....I,ve fell trees that had $ 15,000.00 .worth of logs in them in the water along side the ship ... From some of Cody's pics he may have double that dollar figure The Doug fir in Burvols avatar had at least several thousand dollars worth of wood in it .... I am positive that Gologit , Randy Mac Jacob J Coastal Faller , Oregon Faller , ect.ect.ect.ect. has me beat by double the dollar figure !!!!!! Just how high a dollar figure are we talking about with a hardwood tree 15" diameter on the stump ............. I would scoop those little poles off the stump . have them go where I wanted , never pull any wood , and never use a wedge ......... 
.
. Any one who says he is going to drop tree just said Hey everyone , watch me drop and break this tree ..........If you had to go to college to learn how to put a tree on the ground it could be observed there is very little grey matter activity between the ears .........
.
. People on here need to learn that you don,t drop a tree ... and if they keep saying they do they need to be put on DONT TALK FOR A WHILE ......
..
.University of Maine , Why not just move back to England ,,,,, give me a break , or get a clue ....


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## tramp bushler (Feb 9, 2010)

fredmc said:


> You guys may hardly ever bore cut out west, because the trees are different. I mean I would love to have a swath of straight conifers to cut. Back here we get alot of strange trees-double/triple stems, offset crowns etc. I'm sayin' it is good to know many techniques for many applications.


.

.

.Cody, you got any spooky spring board pics ....... Fred .. check out Coastal Fallers info . there is a link he posted of the company he either cuts for or owns ... . He , or one of the guys on his strip is about 3 boards up a clump of red cedars that look like they are running 5-7ft on the stump .........
. Cutting 2nd and 3rd growth is quite different from falling old growth ...Still a pretty easy way to get killt . But trust me we have way more ----ed up falling situations than what you do in Penn.. Now , I,m not saying you don,t have very challenging situations .....and that you have to keep your thinking cap on tight ......... But . When the ground gets steep , and the wood gets fat . You really need to have everything happening right .......... 
. If I went to WV and was cutting , if need be I would pack Hammers gas for a couple days to learn how to deal with the timber he is falling ........And I,ve already put a few/ several ship loads of timber on the ground ...


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## Greystoke (Feb 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> I thought only we lonely foresters talked to ourselves?
> 
> Here is a tree that was bored into by helicopter fallers. You may want to discuss the technique.
> 
> ...



I always did that...nice way to keep your gear off the ground. Only difference was, I learned from an old faller, was to bore just into the bark, maybe a little into the sapwood, in case a windstorm came, your saw could get free!


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## Greystoke (Feb 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Cody, you got any spooky spring board pics .......



Unfortunately, the only ones I have are the couple that I have posted in other threads.

I wish I had a pic of the 50 bushel redwood that myself and another guy had to build scaffolding around...This tree was in an owl circle buffer where you can only cut a percentage of the trees, but the deadline for falling it had passed so we had to leave it until the season opened. The hippies showed up when we were working this nice residual job...anyhow, the bull buck sent us to the bottom of the unit to said tree, and wanted us to girdle it (so as to kill it without falling it, and take away their reason for climbing it and building a hippy nest). It took us all day to build scaffolding around that thing and girdle it. It was on a steep pitch and had a hard lean, so it made the scaffolding interesting. Unfortunately I was laid up with a broken leg when they went back in the next season and fell it. I guess they used 10 silvey tree saver rams on it to jack it over...would have been very pic worthy.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 9, 2010)

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!! WOW !!!!!!!!!!! That would be impressive !!!


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## bitzer (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow, now that is some Effin timber! 10 fricken jacks! Jesus. How do you girdle a tree? I've never heard of that before.


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## hammerlogging (Feb 9, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> The lean would be favorable but at about a 10 o'clock postion and you want it to go to about 2 o clock.



Whether or not you could get it cut in time before breaking butt log (chair like)depends on if say 8'of lean at 10 o'clock, or 20' at 10 o'clock. What you're describing sounds like a dutchman really. If it doesn't have too much lean at 10'oclock it'd probably hit 2 oclock anyhow without anything special, maybe have to aim it at 3 since the hinge will break at some point.

056 and his infamous side band swarp notch diagram..... its like a dutchman only it has this huge (obnoxious, dangerous) kerf face on the hoizontal of the dutchman. I've seen some guys swing some stuff really well but I've also seen the whole trunk (whole tree) twist on that little piece thats left, if it broke off early..... lets just say you have really changed the lean of the tree at this point and you'd have no idea where to escape to. I'm talking like more than 5" of kerf face. Scary. Say its leaning heavy to 4 oclock and you want it at 12. at about 1 oclock the whole trunk is twisting on the stump- it doesn't just swing the tree, it twists it This means the crown weight can move over the faller

I advocate for a conventional dutchman and have to shake my head when the ol side band comes out. Then I laugh.

Tramp.... it'd be a lot more fun to share gas, share a saw, and alternate tanks of fuel.


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## Greystoke (Feb 9, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> How do you girdle a tree? I've never heard of that before.



We took about a 6"wide section of bark and cambium all the way around...dang redwoods are so hearty though...I doubt we phased it...oh well...heck of a memory!


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## 056 kid (Feb 9, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Whether or not you could get it cut in time before breaking butt log (chair like)depends on if say 8'of lean at 10 o'clock, or 20' at 10 o'clock. What you're describing sounds like a dutchman really. If it doesn't have too much lean at 10'oclock it'd probably hit 2 oclock anyhow without anything special, maybe have to aim it at 3 since the hinge will break at some point.
> 
> 056 and his infamous side band swarp notch diagram..... its like a dutchman only it has this huge (obnoxious, dangerous) kerf face on the hoizontal of the dutchman. I've seen some guys swing some stuff really well but I've also seen the whole trunk (whole tree) twist on that little piece thats left, if it broke off early..... lets just say you have really changed the lean of the tree at this point and you'd have no idea where to escape to. I'm talking like more than 5" of kerf face. Scary. Say its leaning heavy to 4 oclock and you want it at 12. at about 1 oclock the whole trunk is twisting on the stump- it doesn't just swing the tree, it twists it This means the crown weight can move over the faller
> 
> ...



He is talking about somthing different than the swarp. Its a dutchman with a post in the back cut about 1 1/2 to 2 hours past the 3 o click holding wood. good for head/side leaners on steeps... cut a dutchman, loose the compression wood, go around back & work towards pull wood, bring the saw out of the kirf, leave some wood, bore in & make the hinge then saw the post. Thats easier for me than boring both sides then sawing both sides then cutting the back strap. .


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## fredmc (Feb 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...


 I'm not trying to cause a pissing match...hell I'm a newbie at this. All I'm sayin is "if it doesn't apply let it fly". Whatever gets them on the ground safely and intact.


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## slowp (Feb 9, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> I always did that...nice way to keep your gear off the ground. Only difference was, I learned from an old faller, was to bore just into the bark, maybe a little into the sapwood, in case a windstorm came, your saw could get free!



Is that a Montana trick? The fallers were all from Montana and Idaho.


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## Greystoke (Feb 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> Is that a Montana trick? The fallers were all from Montana and Idaho.



Could be...the guy I learned it from was my father-in-law from Idaho.


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## bitzer (Feb 9, 2010)

056 kid said:


> He is talking about somthing different than the swarp. Its a dutchman with a post in the back cut about 1 1/2 to 2 hours past the 3 o click holding wood. good for head/side leaners on steeps... cut a dutchman, loose the compression wood, go around back & work towards pull wood, bring the saw out of the kirf, leave some wood, bore in & make the hinge then saw the post. Thats easier for me than boring both sides then sawing both sides then cutting the back strap. .




Thats similar to what I was talking about. To be fair I have a tree in particular that I am thinking about with this. Its not regular forrest timber. Its a side job for some quick cash. A 32" dbh 70' crack willow thats hanging over a lake. The main stem is nearly straight for the first 4' then leans at about a 30 degree + angle to the ground and looking from the back about 10 to 15 degrees left. The crown is to the left looking from the back cut. The base of the stump is 4' from the lake and I need to put the butt on the ice so I don't eff up their rip rap wall. The ground is sloped so if I were to put my face in chest high my back cut would be knee high. Chest high is nearly over the ice already, but not quite. I'm sure I could put it there with a con-dutch and a snipe to kick it out there for sure. 

The tree is flanked by two larger willows that I don't want to hit. The right side is nearly clear, the left side has one large limb that will hit the flanking tree if I don't swing it a little to the right. There is so much weight out in front with this thing it is going to go quick. Hopefully I can put the butt down first and the crown last so there is not one solid impact. I don't plan to practice on other peoples property, but just seeing what you guys thought. Them city folk pay good money to have their trees taken down. I'll make 2.5 days wages in about 5 hours. I have cut a lot of garbage like this with crazy ass leans and had some succes with stepping dutchmans. I will probably just play it safe. 

I made a ridiculous sketch of what I'm talking about anyway. I thought about boring the face a little so there is less hinge to hit, but it would probably sit down on my tip during my back cut if I bored through the face first. Here it is anyway. This will get the butt spinning for sure if it worked. I have done similar to get a stem to roll off of a nearby tree that it would normally get hung up in, but that was on a tree with no lean, no bore, and a humboldt. 








Edit: looking at that picture now the face should be more to the right to go along with 10 to 2. Most situations 10 to 2 would not be too difficult. This one is out there though. I'll try and get some pics of it when I am out there this week or next.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 10, 2010)

Ya Hammer ; that would be fun ...90 % of the cutting up here is single jacking . With the right guy it is fun to double up .. Do you grind a 45degree angle on the back of your cutters ?? the makes for a smoother bore ...
. Fred , No arguement here .........its cool !!! Do you use a full wrap handle bar on your 7900 Dolmar ...????


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## hutch3912 (Feb 10, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> . How High value is a tree that is 15" on the stump ....I,ve fell trees that had $ 15,000.00 .worth of logs in them in the water along side the ship ... From some of Cody's pics he may have double that dollar figure The Doug fir in Burvols avatar had at least several thousand dollars worth of wood in it .... I am positive that Gologit , Randy Mac Jacob J Coastal Faller , Oregon Faller , ect.ect.ect.ect. has me beat by double the dollar figure !!!!!! Just how high a dollar figure are we talking about with a hardwood tree 15" diameter on the stump ............. I would scoop those little poles off the stump . have them go where I wanted , never pull any wood , and never use a wedge .........
> .
> . Any one who says he is going to drop tree just said Hey everyone , watch me drop and break this tree ..........If you had to go to college to learn how to put a tree on the ground it could be observed there is very little grey matter activity between the ears .........
> ...



I didn't go to school to "learn how to put a tree on the ground", I learned that from a guy thats been cutting wood for 30 years and has made a living cutting 10-20" poles. In the NE we don't cut trees that have the volume like you do outwest, so the quality of the tree is much more important, so they way you FALL it really does matter. If you think your going to run around and drop a bunch of 10" oaks and have them hit the ground without a wedge I think there is very little grey matter activity between your ears. You'll end up with a bunch of trees hung up all over the place. I've been outwest, you guys don't have the understory to deal with like we do, and when your dropping those $15000 trees you don't have to worry about them hitting the ground because once there moving, there going to fall. Regardless in the NE hand falling is no longer as popular as it once was, today everything is mechanized. Production is maximized with a feller buncher, grapple skidder, and a stroke or pull through delimber. In the last couple of years most guys don't even cut pulp, they have all started to buy chippers and the only thing they buck out in the yard(which is done with the delimber) is sawlogs. I'm not doubting your abilities at all, but theres a big difference between cutting big trees, and cutting small trees and in the NE we don't grow big trees so you have to use different cutting techniques to get the tree to the ground. I've never hung a tree greater than 24" DBH, and I've back cut every single one of them.


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## fredmc (Feb 10, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Ya Hammer ; that would be fun ...90 % of the cutting up here is single jacking . With the right guy it is fun to double up .. Do you grind a 45degree angle on the back of your cutters ?? the makes for a smoother bore ...
> . Fred , No arguement here .........its cool !!! Do you use a full wrap handle bar on your 7900 Dolmar ...????



No I do not, but I have been giving it some thought. It would eliminate some back barring and keep me on the safe side more often. But then again running away every now and then is fun.


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## Burvol (Feb 10, 2010)

hutch3912 said:


> I didn't go to school to "learn how to put a tree on the ground", I learned that from a guy thats been cutting wood for 30 years and has made a living cutting 10-20" poles. In the NE we don't cut trees that have the volume like you do outwest, so the quality of the tree is much more important, so they way you FALL it really does matter. If you think your going to run around and drop a bunch of 10" oaks and have them hit the ground without a wedge I think there is very little grey matter activity between your ears. You'll end up with a bunch of trees hung up all over the place. I've been outwest, you guys don't have the understory to deal with like we do, and when your dropping those $15000 trees you don't have to worry about them hitting the ground because once there moving, there going to fall. Regardless in the NE hand falling is no longer as popular as it once was, today everything is mechanized. Production is maximized with a feller buncher, grapple skidder, and a stroke or pull through delimber. In the last couple of years most guys don't even cut pulp, they have all started to buy chippers and the only thing they buck out in the yard(which is done with the delimber) is sawlogs. I'm not doubting your abilities at all, but theres a big difference between cutting big trees, and cutting small trees and in the NE we don't grow big trees so you have to use different cutting techniques to get the tree to the ground. I've never hung a tree greater than 24" DBH, and I've back cut every single one of them.




Sure, but we don't go out of our way to show off the crappy wood. It exists out west too, don't be fooled. I have cut in the jungle out here. Timber that won't even go down through the Dogwood and Massive Vine Maple. We just choose to pay homage to the nice wood out west, and it doesn't have to be big hammer stuff to be nice....slick and straight means something too.


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## hutch3912 (Feb 10, 2010)

*burvol*

I know what ya mean, every place has there crappy stuff. You just got to do what you have to do to get the job done, might not be the most enjoyable, or fastest, but you got to do it.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 10, 2010)

Hutch ; I grew up in Maine and started logging there 2 age 11 . I started falling and bucking fir pulp and hardwood firewood , White cedar fencing when I was 12 yrs old ....grew up with a chainsaw and a pulp hook in my hands . litterly . Logged with farm tractahs , jitta bugs , dozahs , hosses . And eventually skiddahs ........In Alaska I,ve fell timber from the tip of Southeast to the Fairbanks area ....... I aint the tramp bushler for nothin ya know .......
.
. Try facing some trees well beyond center .... On good ground that works well alot of time but you need to be ready to hog off the back cut ....... A faller named Butch from somewhere around Ronan, Montana .taught me that trick . only alot of time he wouldn,t put any face cut in other than the horizontal cut then rip off the back ..........Some guys actually called that a Montana face ..... It,s how Lonnie Serret got killed on Long Island . Plus a number of other things ............ It is more commonly called match cutting .... You don,t pull wood ..... I use it ALOT with the small stuff . 16" dia and smaller .. It,s fast but ya gotta be able to run .. if you can,t run for your life ... don,t do it ..


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## tramp bushler (Feb 10, 2010)

But if you put in both face cuts it,s safe ...


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> But if you put in both face cuts it,s safe ...



Wow so how do you run with the bear proff suit on


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## tramp bushler (Feb 11, 2010)

A bear proof suit equals a large caliber revolver ////....


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## joesawer (Feb 11, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> A bear proof suit equals a large caliber revolver ////....





Lol I think he is talking about the euro style safety equipment and space helmet.
I have actually heard them claim they could survive a bear attack because of all the chainsaw safety gear. 
Talk about a false sense of security


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## mile9socounty (Feb 11, 2010)

I know what cut your talking about. And yes, I have used it several times. I really hate having to chase trees down hill. It's a pretty easy cut to make, take's maybe a couple more minutes to set up.


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## Gologit (Feb 11, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Lol I think he is talking about the euro style safety equipment and space helmet.
> I have actually heard them claim they could survive a bear attack because of all the chainsaw safety gear.
> Talk about a false sense of security



Hmmmm...any volunteers? We'll need video, too. And the name of their next of kin.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 11, 2010)

*how did we get on the bear thing anyway ..*

... Where I,m cutting right now there are a fair amount of trees that are pretty straight . By cutting beyond half I can get them to go where I want without wedging much if at all .... Alot of times that is what a step dutchman is .. It has warmed up here , yesterday it was around 20 above for a little while ......Warmest it,s been since early November ... I need to figure out how to put pics on photobucket from my LG Script phone ............


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## tramp bushler (Feb 11, 2010)

hutch3912 said:


> I know what ya mean, every place has there crappy stuff. You just got to do what you have to do to get the job done, might not be the most enjoyable, or fastest, but you got to do it.



. 
. For bein a good guy , you got some rep .........Where ya at in Maine ??


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> ... Where I,m cutting right now there are a fair amount of trees that are pretty straight . By cutting beyond half I can get them to go where I want without wedging much if at all .... Alot of times that is what a step dutchman is .. It has warmed up here , yesterday it was around 20 above for a little while ......Warmest it,s been since early November ... I need to figure out how to put pics on photobucket from my LG Script phone ............



Sorry was talking about the Montana face comment run like hell snap cut thingy. That is needing a bear proof suit right there lol.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 11, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Lol I think he is talking about the euro style safety equipment and space helmet.
> I have actually heard them claim they could survive a bear attack because of all the chainsaw safety gear.
> Talk about a false sense of security


 When you look up and only can see the hump of a bear and it is almost eye level , I,m 5'9" ...

.Since sometimes all you can see is 10 yards or less thru the brush .....I,ve burned hundreds of gallons of gas thru saws with a big pistol on my wedge/fuel belt ................

.Ya learn to fuel first , then oil ... Several times I,ve had to get the cap on and start the saw to keep a bear away ........They are real curious , and not scared .. But they don,t like a running saw .... Most bears are not eye level .. But I,ve bumped into a number of them .that are ...........


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> When you look up and only can see the hump of a bear and it is almost eye level , I,m 5'9" ...
> 
> .Since sometimes all you can see is 10 yards or less thru the brush .....I,ve burned hundreds of gallons of gas thru saws with a big pistol on my wedge/fuel belt ................
> 
> .Ya learn to fuel first , then oil ... Several times I,ve had to get the cap on and start the saw to keep a bear away ........They are real curious , and not scared .. But they don,t like a running saw .... Most bears are not eye level .. But I,ve bumped into a number of them .that are ...........



I have bumped into a few here that meet that specification of eye level. Black bears though in the 6 hundy pound range.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 11, 2010)

I mean when they have all 4 feet on the ground and the ground is flat and level . The hump is eye level ..... Brown bears .. with 8 and 9 " wide front pads ..


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> I mean when they have all 4 feet on the ground and the ground is flat and level . The hump is eye level ..... Brown bears .. with 8 and 9 " wide front pads ..



I have seen black bear with their back at eye level on flat ground here. There front tracks are wider than my hand spread as wide as I can get it. There scat as large as a dinner plate. 6 to 7 hundred pound black bears are not uncommon where I hunt.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 12, 2010)

The next time you see one you better shoot it because if it,s back is 5 plus feet tall , it would square 10 ft plus.. and no doubt have a 26" skull ... . That would be THE WORLD RECORD !!!!!.black bear ..


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## joesawer (Feb 12, 2010)

I have not ever been around any big bears.
They killed the last one in CA back in the 50s.
But we have an over abundance of the little ones. The have a presence all their own. They will get out of your way if they feel like it. They don't like a running saw either and usually will slip out ahead of you.
But at night the dirty scoundrels will tear up all kinds of stuff just to chew some candy wrappers in the trash. 
Powerful they are, they tear up everything between them and what they think might be food. 
Everything I have ever heard is that the big bears are much more aggressive and dangerous.


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## 2dogs (Feb 12, 2010)

Most of the bears I've seen in Collyfornia are Democrats. They live off the tax payers in parks, go through trash and beg for food. They make alot of noise but don't really accomplish anything.


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## joesawer (Feb 14, 2010)

2dogs said:


> Most of the bears I've seen in Collyfornia are Democrats. They live off the tax payers in parks, go through trash and beg for food. They make alot of noise but don't really accomplish anything.



There was some people near Crestline got the bright idea of chaining their trash cans to their propane tank to keep the bears from rolling them around.
The bears just rolled the whole propane tank down the hill into a girls car doing thousands of dollars of damage to it.
In Angelas Oaks we where storing our garbage in an out building till garbage day. The door was not even shut all the way but a bear tore the masonite siding off and pulled some studs out to get to it and strow it every where.
He killed a neighbors dog and ate his food and part of the dog a few days later. Then was trying to break into a house a few days later when he met his end.
In Lake Arrowhead two bears broke into a mans house and he tried to chase them out with a broom. One left and one didn't. It took over 1000 stitches to put him back together. Bears killed and maimed several dogs there. Some of the residents begged me to dispatch some of the bears. But that community was way to democrat for me to chance it.
Hear is a pic of a nice one in May by fall he will be filled out nicely.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56074&d=1187691624
My dinosaur computer refuses to load pics some time but this is the link.


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## Greystoke (Feb 14, 2010)

2dogs said:


> most of the bears i've seen in collyfornia are democrats. They live off the tax payers in parks, go through trash and beg for food. They make alot of noise but don't really accomplish anything.



ROFL


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## tramp bushler (Feb 14, 2010)

Joe . that falls under DEFENSE OF LIFE AND PROPERTY ............. 
. People just NEED TO KILL SOME BEARS !!!!!!
. Everyone gets all stressed about killing bears .. I used to . But if you have an adequet size rifle that you shoot WELL , and quite fast from offhand position ect. . Just line up on it at the top of it's ticker and kaboom ... If you have only a light rifle like a 243 , 223 ect and you shoot it real good . with the bear in the pic , wait till it puts its head down for a mouth full of grass and whak it right in the center of the top of it's head ... Splatter it,s brains ..... I don,t recomend little calibers for shooting bears , but sometimes ya gotta make do ... Like falling an 8 ft spruce with an 046 Mag with 36" full skip ....... Never be afraid to shoot a down bear a few more times ... Saves on the doctor visits ..
. Since ya got a day off ... Go do some shootin .... Take the 22 and the 338 and go have some fun ... Shoot from field positions not from the bench .........Once you are sighted in that is .....
. Not that I,m tellin anyone what to do,,,,,,, I,m not !! Just have fun and keep your sight picture / trigger control working well together ...


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## clearance (Feb 14, 2010)

Lots of bears here, lots of myth. The little black bears (200-300lbs) are the ones who do most of the human killing. They do stalk people, I have personal experience of, circling around you is a common tactic. Thier thinking goes something like this when looking at humans "Hmmm, I would like some meat, can I take it, will it hurt me, is it worth it?" 

In the past, bears were shot when they came around houses, they ain't stupid. But the do-gooders, bunny huggers, have put them before human safety.


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## RandyMac (Feb 14, 2010)

The last blackie I killed was tearing up an orchard, hit it in the back of the skull with a 250 grain roundnose from a 35 Whalen, so much for mounting the head.


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## John Ellison (Feb 14, 2010)

Not sure of the whole tale on these pictures, but some friends in Soldatna AK. sent them.
Fly in fishing trip. Someone left bait in a cooler on the plane. Radio still worked. Another pilot delivered three cases of duck tape, some plastic sheets and two new tires. They flew home.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 15, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> The last blackie I killed was tearing up an orchard, hit it in the back of the skull with a 250 grain roundnose from a 35 Whalen, so much for mounting the head.



.A better tool for that job has probably never been made !!!!!


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## joesawer (Feb 15, 2010)

John Ellison said:


> Not sure of the whole tale on these pictures, but some friends in Soldatna AK. sent them.
> Fly in fishing trip. Someone left bait in a cooler on the plane. Radio still worked. Another pilot delivered three cases of duck tape, some plastic sheets and two new tires. They flew home.





I have seen them peel open cars like a can opener.

Hey Tramp I have always wanted a .338 but down where I live There just isn't much need for it. I would really like a .35 Whelen. I have done most of my killing with a .308. I have 2 black bears over 500 lbs with it. It is a little small but it will bust their heart or break their spine just fine.
I could have had more put I didn't want to shoot them where that there was no way for me to pack them out or in town. I don't shoot over bait stations either.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 15, 2010)

joesawer said:


> I have seen them peel open cars like a can opener.
> 
> Hey Tramp I have always wanted a .338 but down where I live There just isn't much need for it. I would really like a .35 Whelen. I have done most of my killing with a .308. I have 2 black bears over 500 lbs with it. It is a little small but it will bust their heart or break their spine just fine.
> I could have had more put I didn't want to shoot them where that there was no way for me to pack them out or in town. I don't shoot over bait stations either.


..

. I have a different philosophy than lots of other people do .... Killing bears isn,t about sport . it,s about getting rid of problems , before , during or after the problem starts .... Why not use a bait station .. If they produce dead bears YIPPY .......The 338 and the Whelan can easily do what the 308 is too little for .... And with the same kill shot as the 308 , say a shoulder shot , can produce a much quiker more dramatic and stationary end to a problem .....With a 225 gr Barnes TSX there is little either won,t handle well , from a lung shot on a 100 lb deer to brealing both shoulders and exiting on a 700 lb bear or 1000 lb elk ... And they both are great to 300 yards on elk type animals ... But are also good @ 20 feet on a bear or hog or boar ........ With either one there isn,t an angle to the heart on a 5-600 lb bear that would impede the bullet putting a BIG hole thru that heart .......... 

.
. I,m not much on 30 calibers , and I,ve had a dozen or so ... Too big for the little stuff , have to be real picky with the shots on the bigger stuff .......
. Aweful lot of bears walkin around Alaska with 30 cal bullets in them ...


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## joesawer (Feb 15, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> ..
> 
> . I have a different philosophy than lots of other people do .... Killing bears isn,t about sport . it,s about getting rid of problems , before , during or after the problem starts .... Why not use a bait station .. If they produce dead bears YIPPY .......The 338 and the Whelan can easily do what the 308 is too little for .... And with the same kill shot as the 308 , say a shoulder shot , can produce a much quiker more dramatic and stationary end to a problem .....With a 225 gr Barnes TSX there is little either won,t handle well , from a lung shot on a 100 lb deer to brealing both shoulders and exiting on a 700 lb bear or 1000 lb elk ... And they both are great to 300 yards on elk type animals ... But are also good @ 20 feet on a bear or hog or boar ........ With either one there isn,t an angle to the heart on a 5-600 lb bear that would impede the bullet putting a BIG hole thru that heart ..........
> 
> ...




No argument that a 308 is small for bears. I would never consider it at all for big bears. A 180 gr Cor Lokt it will get into the vitals just not with much authority. But it has way more penetration than a 223 or even a 243.
Yes they can move a long way with a 308 through the heart and I would not even try a shot through the shoulder of a 500 pounder or a long angle with it.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 15, 2010)

*Kill dem Bears ..*

Use what ya got to the best of it,s ability ,,, No Doubt !!!! But a stainless Ruger 338 bolt rifle can be got on Gunbroker.com pretty cheap .. AND it will out last most things ..!!!!!! And prolly never let you down ....
. But . as long as bears are dyin to the 308 ,,, 
. Just , Kill dem bears ...!!!


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## Greystoke (Feb 15, 2010)

John Ellison said:


> Not sure of the whole tale on these pictures, but some friends in Soldatna AK. sent them.
> Fly in fishing trip. Someone left bait in a cooler on the plane. Radio still worked. Another pilot delivered three cases of duck tape, some plastic sheets and two new tires. They flew home.



Awesome! Thanks for sharing


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## tramp bushler (Feb 15, 2010)

A friend from Illiamna confirmed that was a bear .... He is a full time guide , 5 months hunting 3 fishing and trapping all winter ... I don,t think he left the cooler in the plane , but knows who did ..... Fixing the fuselage is pretty amazing . but the part I,m amazed with is the tail ... Not as easy and more critical ... Thanks for posting those John !!


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## smokechase II (Feb 15, 2010)

*and two new tires*

I've had experiences with bears tearing into things that were not food related.

I don't know this but the tires may have also been an attraction.

PVC - plastic sheeting - for some reason can harbor an odor that at least one bear on the Yakima Indian reservation wanted. He, (perhaps a she - never met 'em), tore out our plastic lined water dam for a pump show a couple nights in a row before we gave up.

Any scout knows that you put film canisters, (I'm dating myself), in the bear bag with food. This means the black canisters even without film.

=========

Camping in an Alaskan setting is different.

I saw guys that would go off and club young geese, that couldn't fly, to death even though they had plenty of food. Those same guys, with limited ethics in my book, would keep a really clean camp.

The death penalty promotes a better society.


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## clearance (Feb 15, 2010)

Lots of people here shoot bears with 308s, 30-06, 303. They have always worked. But I guess its like using a 066 instead of a 372, more is better.


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## Dayto (Feb 15, 2010)

DO you hunt on the island Clearance?


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## clearance (Feb 15, 2010)

Dayto said:


> DO you hunt on the island Clearance?



No, I don't hunt at all, just heard about it all my life.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 16, 2010)

smokechase II said:


> I've had experiences with bears tearing into things that were not food related.
> 
> I don't know this but the tires may have also been an attraction.
> 
> ...



. With the plastic sheeting , it,s because it,s polyurethane .. Sometimes when a roll is opened it smells like urine . Anything nasty attracts bears , dogs and cats .....


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## Humptulips (Feb 16, 2010)

*Funny bear story from Icy Bay*

The scalers had a shack to keep their paper work in and there was one window in it. A brown bear started coming through about once a week regular. Every time, it would go to the shack and break out the window. Replace the window, next time through the bear would break it. Finally got tired of that so they put a new window in to seal up the shack and nailed a piece of plywood over the window so the bear wouldn't bust it.
Next time through the bear goes to the shack, tears off the door, goes in and busts the window and leaves. Must have just liked the sound of breaking glass.


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## Dayto (Feb 16, 2010)

7MM Rem Mag, .338 Mag ,.444 ,45-70 ,.35 Whalen ..... Bear stopper!

Speaking of Bears on a chainsaw site.

I know 2 fallers out of Woss Lake (Vancouver Island) In the early 80's . That were falling a strip of Oldgrowth and came across a bear Den in the base of the cedar . Ralph then called in the Bull-Bucker told him what he had.. the bull-bucker came down to have a look . Sure Enuf there was a young bear inside . Bull Buck told ralph to Bore in the backside of the tree into the den and He would Kill it with his AXE as the bear came out . Ralph though WTF this guys Crazy , but he did as he was told ...As the bear Poked his head out , Bull back wound up 1 HIT with a 5 PND axe and Ralph said sure as #### DROPPED THE YOUNG BEAR IN HIS TRACKS. The Bull bucker just couldent resist a Nice spring bear rug.:jawdrop: HARD TO IMAGINE I KNOW , THIS IS NO BULL #### ... And here is the Kicker the Bull Bucker Told Ralph this was not the first time he had done this..

WHO NEEDS A GUN , WHEN YA GOT A AXE.:greenchainsaw:


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## Humptulips (Feb 16, 2010)

My dads step father told a similar story. He was an old hand faller. When the first power saws came out he was falling a big cedar on North River in WA. He said he noticed the chain was grabbing a little putting in the undercut. When he knocked the undercut out a bear stuck its head out and he killed it with his axe. Mouth was all cut up from biting at the chain/


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## joesawer (Feb 17, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Use what ya got to the best of it,s ability ,,, No Doubt !!!! But a stainless Ruger 338 bolt rifle can be got on Gunbroker.com pretty cheap .. AND it will out last most things ..!!!!!! And prolly never let you down ....
> . But . as long as bears are dyin to the 308 ,,,
> . Just , Kill dem bears ...!!!





A stainless 338 would be nice but I have a few other things to get first!


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## slowp (Feb 17, 2010)

The black bears in the State Of Jefferson, Klamath River country, are bigger than the average black bear. I kept a box of bear load buckshot handy for my 12 gauge as I lived in a house that had been broken into in the past. 

My golden retriever became the bear dog. She was extremely fast and the bears were afraid of dogs. She chased one away that I was unaware of and heading towards. 

The neighborhood garbage dumpster was in a chainlink area. There was plywood on the bottom, and an electric wire on top. Unfortunately, the people from the general area were allowed to use it and did not shut the gate. The bears got in then. 

After we moved away, a bear tore up my neighbor's hot tub cover.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 17, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> The scalers had a shack to keep their paper work in and there was one window in it. A brown bear started coming through about once a week regular. Every time, it would go to the shack and break out the window. Replace the window, next time through the bear would break it. Finally got tired of that so they put a new window in to seal up the shack and nailed a piece of plywood over the window so the bear wouldn't bust it.
> Next time through the bear goes to the shack, tears off the door, goes in and busts the window and leaves. Must have just liked the sound of breaking glass.


.

:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::help:
. you can buy windows ect , or buy ammo ......... I prefer the ammo .!!.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 17, 2010)

Dayto said:


> 7MM Rem Mag, .338 Mag ,.444 ,45-70 ,.35 Whalen ..... Bear stopper!
> 
> Speaking of Bears on a chainsaw site.
> 
> ...



. Tho kinda rugged , thats a good bull buck ... 
.
.I guess some bears would rather bite a saw than run ..... Would be kinda rude getting woke up by a saw tho ....... It,s a good thing when bears die tho ..... 
Slowp ... You want to use the buckshot for the 2 legged problems .. use slugs for the 4 legged ... Serious !!!!!! Buckshot is about the worst stuff there is for bears ..... All it creates is a wounded bear , and thats a problem ....... Brenneke slugs are about the best out there .. 1 7/8 oz 2 3/4" or 3" mag . whichever your gun takes ... . If need be shorten , or have the butt stock shortened so the gun fits you like a good glove .....It makes all the difference in the world ..


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## Burvol (Feb 17, 2010)

slowp said:


> The black bears in the State Of Jefferson, Klamath River country, are bigger than the average black bear. I kept a box of bear load buckshot handy for my 12 gauge as I lived in a house that had been broken into in the past.
> 
> My golden retriever became the bear dog. She was extremely fast and the bears were afraid of dogs. She chased one away that I was unaware of and heading towards.
> 
> ...




When I was up nort, we would go down to the dump (oh boy) in the evening with some beer and watch the bears. A really, really big sow blackie and her cubs were the mainstays, with some grizz on the other end of the dump a few nights a week. One night we showed up to watch them terrorize the place and they all three were sitting right at the front gate with no coats. LOL


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## ropensaddle (Feb 17, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> The next time you see one you better shoot it because if it,s back is 5 plus feet tall , it would square 10 ft plus.. and no doubt have a 26" skull ... . That would be THE WORLD RECORD !!!!!.black bear ..



I don't doubt it was as, I seen the really big ones in the white river national wildlife refuge. It is the Mississippi delta and the bears are protected there. I investigated his tracks both front and back the front track was 8 and a half inch wide the rear was monstrous, best I can put it. These big ole bears live on the refuge and eat soybeans on the farms that border it. The largest black bears in the world I have heard come from this area. I have also seen very large bears in the mountains I hunt here at home. I came to draw on a 400 pound bear only to find out it was a sow and cubs were behind her. I have a friend that killed a 6' 9" inch 603 lb bear about five miles from my sacred hunting grounds trying to get into his house!



PS: the bears in the refuge are south of me here they have the perfect habitat to grow to immense size and add to that they are protected and longer growing seasons and great water quality, superb fertile bottomland. Daniel Boone loved this area of the world as well as Davy Crockett and there is a bluff named for Crockett.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 17, 2010)

John Ellison said:


> Not sure of the whole tale on these pictures, but some friends in Soldatna AK. sent them.
> Fly in fishing trip. Someone left bait in a cooler on the plane. Radio still worked. Another pilot delivered three cases of duck tape, some plastic sheets and two new tires. They flew home.



If you can't duck it, Fly it lol


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