# What to bring to first day on job



## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

I gotta job offer for a logging company about an hour away from me, I'm going in next weekend to give it a shot. He said they're working a 1000 tree job right now. Sounded like a cool guy. I asked if it was strictly logging or did they do arborist stuff too like some other "logging" companies in this area. He said we dont trim no trees or paint no houses all we do is log :msp_biggrin: Said he buys breakfast and lunch for the crew. He said they have a timberjack 340 skidder its an early 2000s model. They also have a forwarder, feller buncher, and log truck. He provides the chainsaws too. He said that every member of the crew runs everything at a point. He's 60 years old, and has been logging all his life and wants steady work, he don't care if he gotta learn ya. I'm real excited about it. I'm going there to start as a timber faller.

Anyways, what should I bring for my first day? Here's my list so far, I know I'm missing stuff, would love for some extra advice:
-spencer tape
-doyle rule
-wedges and pouch
-ax and holster
-caulks
-water
-food
-346xp with 18" bar and h21 chain
-ms362 with 20" bar and round ground chisel chain
-461r with proberly 28" bar and rslhk chain.
-066 with 36" bar and some round ground chisel chain
-gas
-bar oil

Believe he provides the saw but I'll come prepared for whatever.
He says they work year round and sometimes 7 days a week through sunshine, wind, snow, hail, hot, cold, piss, ####...I said sounds good, means that the weather dont affect my income.

He said he starts new guys off at $100 a day and sees what they're worth from there on up. I did the math and I'll be spending approx $90 a week on diesel. Will definitely miss getting it for free from my current job. 

I'm real excited to get outta the shop and get back to working in the woods full time.

Thanks for any responses!


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## logging22 (Jan 10, 2013)

I usually throw in a change of clothes, dry socks and such. Files. Snacks. Gloves. Snacks. And dont forget the snacks. Good luck!


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## Oldtimer (Jan 10, 2013)

Eyes and ears open, mouth shut, and bring extra work ethic.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 10, 2013)

logging22 said:


> I usually throw in a change of clothes, dry socks and such. Files. Snacks. Gloves. Snacks. And dont forget the snacks. Good luck!





Oldtimer said:


> Eyes and ears open, mouth shut, and bring extra work ethic.


 +1

Rain gear, extra ear plugs, safety glasses, hard hat, good sense of humor, be willing to do whatever, find out if anyone on the crew uses tobacco- if so keep an extra can of chew in your gear. That'll make you friends fast.


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## 056 kid (Jan 10, 2013)

Unless it was OG west coast status, I would have said goodbye after I heard it was a "1000 tree job",
That just sounds absolutely retarded for a logger to say......
Try it out though, just be prepared for the worst...


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

056 kid said:


> Unless it was OG west coast status, I would have said goodbye after I heard it was a "1000 tree job",
> That just sounds absolutely retarded for a logger to say......
> Try it out though, just be prepared for the worst...



yea, well, everyones a bit strange, I thought it sounded weird too, but shoot, the way he words things aint gonna change me wanting the job.



Oldtimer said:


> Eyes and ears open, mouth shut, and bring extra work ethic.



sir yes sir. 



Jacob J. said:


> +1
> 
> Rain gear, extra ear plugs, safety glasses, hard hat, good sense of humor, be willing to do whatever, find out if anyone on the crew uses tobacco- if so keep an extra can of chew in your gear. That'll make you friends fast.



I forgot to mention alot of them things, my truck is loaded to the gills with lots of things since I work outta my truck on my current job. Loaded with all kinds of tools, chains, 5 hard hats, rain gear, carhart bibs, hats, box of earplugs, glasses, welding helmet, torch mask, face shield, always have two chainsaws, the list goes on and on. I got me a whole tub of stokers in my pickup (which is equivalent to about 10 cans of dip, maybe 11), I go through a tub about once a month gotta love em. Good thought there!


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## 056 kid (Jan 10, 2013)

Run his saws and make sure you get payed THE FIRST TIME YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET PAYED. If you get the runaround come first pay day, DO NOT work any more.. been through that whole mess before with lying ass rednecks... Good luck!


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

056 kid said:


> Run his saws and make sure you get payed THE FIRST TIME YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET PAYED. If you get the runaround come first pay day, DO NOT work any more.. been through that whole mess before with lying ass rednecks... Good luck!



good call. Isn't that a little odd to run the bossmans saws or is that standard procedure? At the farm I worked at I always ran my own saws and was taught that you never run someone elses saws, and they dont run yours. That boss was strange though


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

Wondering about what length/weight ax works good for a timber faller, and what's that ax holster that's made out of aluminum called and where can i get that? 

Thanks! 
Doug


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## 056 kid (Jan 10, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Wondering about what length/weight ax works good for a timber faller, and what's that ax holster that's made out of aluminum called and where can i get that?
> 
> Thanks!
> Doug



4 or more lbs. And just wear a good belt and stick the ax there, behind your back..


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## 056 kid (Jan 10, 2013)

4x4American said:


> good call. Isn't that a little odd to run the bossmans saws or is that standard procedure? At the farm I worked at I always ran my own saws and was taught that you never run someone elses saws, and they dont run yours. That boss was strange though



On the east coast it is very common. If you can run a saw that you are not paying for you might as well do it, unless you would rather run your own for performance reasons..


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

056 kid said:


> 4 or more lbs. And just wear a good belt and stick the ax there, behind your back..



ok, what about length? I have a gransfors bruks 35" american felling axe that works well, but the holster is too slow and it's so long it's annoying to carry.


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## Driver625 (Jan 10, 2013)

Its called a scabbard. If you google aluminum axe scabbard they' re available online.


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

056 kid said:


> On the east coast it is very common. If you can run a saw that you are not paying for you might as well do it, unless you would rather run your own for performance reasons..



huh. well I just think it'd be awful if I by accident screwed up the bossmans saw. I also like a wrap handle, will have to see what he gots.


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

Driver625 said:


> Its called a scabbard. If you google aluminum axe scabbard they' re available online.



thanks


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## 056 kid (Jan 10, 2013)

Whatever length is comfey. I like a longer handle for swing and leverage, but at the same time I like a shorter handle for navigating through the brush.


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## twochains (Jan 10, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Isn't that a little odd to run the bossmans saws or is that standard procedure? At the farm I worked at I always ran my own saws and was taught that you never run someone elses saws, and they dont run yours.



Most logging crews around here provide saws. Even though they aren't "our" saws...they are "our" saws. With our small crew there are (5) saws, the boss', the loader operator, mine, and 2 back up. I personally wouldn't ever use my boss' saw simply because if he needs to go fall trees and it's maybe dull and I had been using it...well, that doesn't look good on me, whether I dulled it or not. Same goes with me, if the decking hand picked up my saw and went to cutting dirt covered skid up logs right before I was going to cut...I'd be pissed. Now if the boss grabs my saw I quickly remember it's "his" saw! :msp_biggrin: I can always re-sharpen if needed. :msp_rolleyes: Good luck! Sounds like a good boss! 

This is going to seem bad, and really I don't mean anything about it, but...How come you to have so many saws and so much gear but are asking what to bring to the jobsite? Did you used to log for someone some time ago? Just curious...I'm envious of you saw collection actually.


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## hunter h (Jan 10, 2013)

4x4American said:


> I gotta job offer for a logging company about an hour away from me, I'm going in next weekend to give it a shot. He said they're working a 1000 tree job right now. Sounded like a cool guy. I asked if it was strictly logging or did they do arborist stuff too like some other "logging" companies in this area. He said we dont trim no trees or paint no houses all we do is log :msp_biggrin: Said he buys breakfast and lunch for the crew. He said they have a timberjack 340 skidder its an early 2000s model. They also have a forwarder, feller buncher, and log truck. He provides the chainsaws too. He said that every member of the crew runs everything at a point. He's 60 years old, and has been logging all his life and wants steady work, he don't care if he gotta learn ya. I'm real excited about it. I'm going there to start as a timber faller.
> 
> Anyways, what should I bring for my first day? Here's my list so far, I know I'm missing stuff, would love for some extra advice:
> -spencer tape
> ...



Do not forget tp have a roll of black tap in your pouch for first aid purpose and other things.


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

twochains said:


> Most logging crews around here provide saws. Even though they aren't "our" saws...they are "our" saws. With our small crew there are (5) saws, the boss', the loader operator, mine, and 2 back up. I personally wouldn't ever use my boss' saw simply because if he needs to go fall trees and it's maybe dull and I had been using it...well, that doesn't look good on me, whether I dulled it or not. Same goes with me, if the decking hand picked up my saw and went to cutting dirt covered skid up logs right before I was going to cut...I'd be pissed. Now if the boss grabs my saw I quickly remember it's "his" saw! :msp_biggrin: I can always re-sharpen if needed. :msp_rolleyes: Good luck! Sounds like a good boss!
> 
> This is going to seem bad, and really I don't mean anything about it, but...How come you to have so many saws and so much gear but are asking what to bring to the jobsite? Did you used to log for someone some time ago? Just curious...I'm envious of you saw collection actually.



I used to work at a sawmill, I still do work there and help out where I can, but anyways, at the sawmill I mainly bucked wood to go to the mill and cut wood for firewood (we boil our maple syrup and he heats his house with firewood so I cut and split lots of firewood) When we'd clear land, he'd do most of the felling, teaching me stuff and he'd let me drop em every so often, but he was the main guy. Since it wasn't me felling all the time, I didn't carry much. We'd keep the gas and bar oil and other stuff on the 450-B since it was a slow moving two man operation. I ain't never had the title timber faller. So I ain't sure what all to bring. I never worked for a logging company, just for the farm and that wasn't really all that impressive of a logging operation. I'm just all sorts of excited and not sure what to expect plus I have a very...short...memory


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2013)

hunter h said:


> Do not forget tp have a roll of black tap in your pouch for first aid purpose and other things.



amen! I've used leaves many times, but why put myself in that situation. black tape would be smart for sure.


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## redprospector (Jan 10, 2013)

4x4American said:


> good call. Isn't that a little odd to run the bossmans saws or is that standard procedure? At the farm I worked at I always ran my own saws and was taught that you never run someone elses saws, and they dont run yours. That boss was strange though



Personally, at $100 a day, I don't think you can afford to run your own saw.

Andy


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## twochains (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm excited for ya! LOL! You'll do just fine! At least you are thinking and asking questions. Good luck and be safe!


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## logging22 (Jan 10, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Personally, at $100 a day, I don't think you can afford to run your own saw.
> 
> Andy



Im with you on this one. For that money, im using all his stuff. And hopefully finding a ride with the other crew members.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 10, 2013)

Well, kind of keep the overt enthusiasm to yourself, and put it into the job, doing a really good job. This means being safe, not endangering others, making good decisions and the like. Aim on performing smoothly, this is more important than "fast"; it is in fact fast, by default. Think to yourself "smooth" and "grace". that is a good timberfaller, the good days are the ones you have 50% mmore production with 50% less effort. 

You'll only need one saw, one in the truck for backup, but its just there in case of some sort of breakdown. Have at least one extra loop for the primary saw in case you hit rock or something awful. And yes, hardhat.

I'm kind of emabarrassed to suggest this, but it sounds like you'll need a dress rehearsal so you don't stand out too much like a new guy- your coming in equipped like you've done this before, better know where you going to hang that tape from than bumbling with it at the tail gate while everyone is waiting on you.

Don't be afraid of asking for help and don't endanger yourself or others. I'd way rather work with someone responsible and trainable than someone with attitude, especially ignorance or ego issues. 

Its a great line of work for the right person, good luck. Did I say be careful?


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## forestryworks (Jan 10, 2013)

Wow, $100/day is a low ball offer. And 1,000 trees won't last very long.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 10, 2013)

forestryworks said:


> Wow, $100/day is a low ball offer. And 1,000 trees won't last very long.



Hopefully he said "thousand (board foot) trees job" 

thats a lot more appealing.


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## logging22 (Jan 10, 2013)

Poor guy. He so wound up he wont need a saw when he gets there!


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## Gologit (Jan 10, 2013)

Granted, 100 a day is low wages. But look at it as an opportunity to learn and get paid a little for it. Very little, actually, but you have to start somewhere.

100 a day gross is probably going to be 70 a day net. Are you working a faller's day or will you be working eight or ten...or more? 

You've had some good advice here but I'd add one thing. You're not a faller, not yet anyway, and you need to remember that no matter what your boss wants you to do, your main concern should be keeping yourself safe. If you get into a situation that you're not comfortable with, go get your boss and have him walk you through it. If he's any kind of logger at all he already knows you're green and if he's a decent guy he'll help you learn. It benefits him if your skill levels increase.

If it turns out that your boss is a flake, if he runs junk equipment, if he doesn't pay, if he doesn't keep his word, or if he puts you into dangerous situations and demands that you either perform or get yourself gone...just pack up your stuff and go. There are other jobs and other learning opportunities.

One thing about it...you're going to find out that there's a big difference in _getting_ to cut wood and _having_ to cut wood.

Let us know how it works out for you.


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## Gologit (Jan 10, 2013)

logging22 said:


> Poor guy. He so wound up he wont need a saw when he gets there!



True. He's wound up like a 2 dollar watch. 


I missed the "like button" and hit the edit button your post...but I didn't edit it.


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## 1270d (Jan 10, 2013)

We provide saws, parts, ppe, gas and oil for our guys. Seems to be a standard here unless they are subbing. All they have to do is show up every day and sharpen their own chains. (Bought em a silvey) I gave up on grinding everynight for someone else.

Hope it goes well for you 4x4


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## mitch95100 (Jan 10, 2013)

All you can do is your best. And I agree don't walk in like a newbie. Come In like you got an idea on what your doing.

Sent from my USCCADR3305 using Tapatalk 2


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## northmanlogging (Jan 10, 2013)

my axe handle is the distance from my eye to my thumb, with my arm straight out.
Its an old boy scout trick for seeing where the top is gonna hit, or how tall it is.

for example mine is... 26.5" to the head


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## 1270d (Jan 10, 2013)

Gologit said:


> 100 a day gross is probably going to be 70 a day net. Are you working a faller's day or will you be working eight or ten...or more?



What's a faller's day?


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## redprospector (Jan 10, 2013)

1270d said:


> What's a faller's day?



6 hrs. around here.

Andy


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## redprospector (Jan 10, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Granted, 100 a day is low wages. But look at it as an opportunity to learn and get paid a little for it. Very little, actually, but you have to start somewhere.
> 
> 100 a day gross is probably going to be 70 a day net. Are you working a faller's day or will you be working eight or ten...or more?
> 
> ...



This is the best advice I've seen. 

Andy


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## redprospector (Jan 10, 2013)

logging22 said:


> Poor guy. He so wound up he wont need a saw when he gets there!



Haha. He's got me thinking about my first job "logging". I was so wound up that I couldn't sleep. They started me on the landing at $5.00 an hour. $40 bucks a day BABY! But I was loggin' 

Andy


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## mitch95100 (Jan 10, 2013)

I pissed my pants when I got my first "clearing job" 25 elms in a fenceline all around 20" 12 bucks an hour, and the thing of it was I didn't care how much I was getting paid.!

Sent from my USCCADR3305 using Tapatalk 2


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## Gologit (Jan 10, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Haha. He's got me thinking about my first job "logging". I was so wound up that I couldn't sleep. They started me on the landing at $5.00 an hour. $40 bucks a day BABY! But I was loggin'
> 
> Andy



You kids made all the big money. (Caution...old guy story ahead) 

When I started out I made 5 dollars a day with breakfast and lunch thrown in. 'Course I was only 13 and I was working for my uncle as a human pack mule in the woods. He cut, I carried. It was better than having a paper route. The next year he bumped me up to seven dollars a day and found....and let me hold the dumb end of the handlebar Macs we were running. The year after that he finally let me run a saw and I started bucking full time and I went to busheling...and supplying my own grub. It was just as well, my uncle said he could afford to pay me but feeding me was driving him to the poor house. I started falling the next year. For the first five years I worked for him I began to think my name was "dammit kid..."

But, like you said...I was loggin. I'd probably do it again.


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## redprospector (Jan 11, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You kids made all the big money. (Caution...old guy story ahead)
> 
> When I started out I made 5 dollars a day with breakfast and lunch thrown in. 'Course I was only 13 and I was working for my uncle as a human pack mule in the woods. He cut, I carried. It was better than having a paper route. The next year he bumped me up to seven dollars a day and found....and let me hold the dumb end of the handlebar Macs we were running. The year after that he finally let me run a saw and I started bucking full time and I went to busheling...and supplying my own grub. It was just as well, my uncle said he could afford to pay me but feeding me was driving him to the poor house. I started falling the next year. For the first five years I worked for him I began to think my name was "dammit kid..."
> 
> But, like you said...I was loggin. I'd probably do it again.



Hahaha. Old fart's like you make me feel so young and full of vinegar.

Andy


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## RandyMac (Jan 11, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Hahaha. Old fart's like you make me feel so young and full of vinegar.
> 
> Andy



Hah! You are older than me!

I had a job like Bob's, but got paid $50 a day plus lunch. 
I remember my first logging job. I felled OG DF with my Grandad's D.D.Terrill, hooters, peckerpoles and broken trees. I think I cleared a hundred bucks a day.


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## redprospector (Jan 11, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Hah! You are older than me!
> 
> I had a job like Bob's, but got paid $50 a day plus lunch.
> I remember my first logging job. I felled OG DF with my Grandad's D.D.Terrill, hooters, peckerpoles and broken trees. I think I cleared a hundred bucks a day.



Hahaha. Does that make you feel young and full of vinegar?

Andy


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## RandyMac (Jan 11, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Hahaha. Does that make you feel young and full of vinegar?
> 
> Andy



Have you met Bob? That tuckered out old man could chase me down and whip my ass.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 11, 2013)

Gologit said:


> When I started out I made 5 dollars a day



Geezuz Bob, even "Spudders" (bark peelers in the wartime camps here) during WWII made more than that...


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## imagineero (Jan 11, 2013)

Ok,
So I'll ask the question nobody has dared to ask; Have you ever worked as a faller? From the sounds of it you haven't, otherwise you'd know what to bring. No shame in it either way, but can you fall timber? If this is your first job, which it sounds like, then I wouldn't be too fussed either way of getting paid or not. It's a foot in the door which is a hard enough thing thesedays. Pay attention, learn the lingo, don't worry so much about keeping up and try to fall your timber in line with the other guys. If the guy has a bad rep in your area (you asked, right?) then don't hang out there too long or you'll pickup bad habits. 

Carry your wedges, pay attention to whatever face cut, stump height, bucking length etc that the other guys are using and do the same yourself. It's a foot in the door! Plenty of guys are willing to work for free for that.

Shaun


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## Gologit (Jan 11, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Geezuz Bob, even "Spudders" (bark peelers in the wartime camps here) during WWII made more than that...



Hey Jake...I said I was young, not smart. 

And really, for 1960, those were pretty good wages for a kid. And, being a teen age kid, I was probably eating another couple of dollars a day in groceries.

When I look back at what I learned and what I got to do...I came out pretty good on the deal.


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## Gologit (Jan 11, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Have you met Bob? That tuckered out old man could chase me down and whip my ass.



There you go...a new event for the GTG...Faller Fights, Geezer Division.

Instead of rounds we could just tussle until we needed a cigarette or another beer...or got winded and fell down.


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## slowp (Jan 11, 2013)

I believe you have forgotten a very important safety item----Toilet Paper. 

Then, add Donettos. 

I'm neither a faller nor a logger, but I will add the advice I heard a hooktender telling his pi--oops helper while leaving pi--oops, helper alone with a task. 

"If you have any questions about something, don't do it till I'm back to answer."

Plus, I like Hammer's suggestion of working smoothly instead of fast. We'd hire guys to mark timber and they would wear themselves out trying to be fast, instead of working at a steady pace. I worked with an older guy who looked like he was barely moving and slow. He was actually covering a lot of ground, a lot more than me because he knew how to work efficiently and move tree to tree without wasting any movement.

Watch your back.


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## Gologit (Jan 11, 2013)

Slowp's advice about setting a steady and sustainable pace is good.

Watch the videos of some of the pro fallers. TreeSlingr, Tarzan, Greenwedge...I've left some out but these are good to start with. 
They don't look fast but if you watch long enough you'll see that they're getting a lot of work done in a short period of time. They're smooth, there's very little wasted motion, and they're producing quality logs.

The best fallers make it look easy...a lot easier than it really is. It's kind of like shooting pool, you plan your moves out a little ahead of time and one task flows naturally into the next. You won't be as smooth as they are to begin with, don't worry about that. But you should improve a little every day.


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## twochains (Jan 11, 2013)

Gologit, Sir where are these vids listed? Somewhere in the forum or you tube? Thanks in advance.


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## mdavlee (Jan 11, 2013)

Here's a few of them. 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2x7MXn5zuEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ioUh2r0OUkk?list=UUnHGm95Y89Ok-UQf6f7TWvw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RrGkn1O6AM8?list=UUnHGm95Y89Ok-UQf6f7TWvw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

hammerlogging said:


> Well, kind of keep the overt enthusiasm to yourself, and put it into the job, doing a really good job. This means being safe, not endangering others, making good decisions and the like. Aim on performing smoothly, this is more important than "fast"; it is in fact fast, by default. Think to yourself "smooth" and "grace". that is a good timberfaller, the good days are the ones you have 50% mmore production with 50% less effort.
> 
> You'll only need one saw, one in the truck for backup, but its just there in case of some sort of breakdown. Have at least one extra loop for the primary saw in case you hit rock or something awful. And yes, hardhat.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice! Hahah yes I know where to hang my tape, I keep it on me all the time whilst working at the sawmill. I am very trainable and I like to move slow and steady. When I'm out in the woods workin our sap lines in a foot and a half of snow, I always try to move slow and steady otherwise I'd be unnecessarily wearin myself out. There are times though that ya gotta get to gettin whilst the gettins good.


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## twochains (Jan 11, 2013)

mdavlee, Thanks man! Good flicks! Gotta love Lamb of God!  Holy crap if I could fall listening to a headset... Thanks again!


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Granted, 100 a day is low wages. But look at it as an opportunity to learn and get paid a little for it. Very little, actually, but you have to start somewhere.
> 
> 100 a day gross is probably going to be 70 a day net. Are you working a faller's day or will you be working eight or ten...or more?
> 
> ...



Yes it is low pay, lower than I'm getting paid at my current job, currently i'm bringing in about $160/8 hr day plus I get $30/hr for any overtime and free diesel fuel for my truck and free oil + other benefits. Looking at it money wise, it dont make any sense to leave my current job. But from my point of view, I spend more time working than doing anything else, even if I'm making more money, why do I want to be spending my life doing something that I don't really like. My boss is a nutcase bipolar type, he's been suspended and fired a few times from work for yelling at higher ups and pushing a guy on camera and this and that, he's very hotheaded and very rascist and dont care about no one and is a miserable man. nobody likes him at work and I gotta work side by side with him as his apprentice all day long it drives me crazy. I've had nights where I couldn't sleep because his voice was in my head screaming at me. I've stuck it out with him for almost 2 years now and it aint really changing. Granted I've learned alot about mechanical work and made good money whilst doing it, I hate working in the city and dealing with all sorts of valueless people all day long. People steal stuff all the time and cuss and swear at each other all day and don't get along it's almost like ax men sometimes. Since I was a little kid I used to dream about being a logger, and I think i'll be able to get the hang of it. I know all about a hard days work, working through any weather and busting arse for little pay most of the times. 

Anyways, off my little rant there had to get it off my chest...
He said it was $100/8 hour day. I definitely always play it safe when falling trees. At the farm I work at if I'm in a sticky situation I always go get my boss or another experienced person to teach me what to do. I don't mess around when it comes to trees, they weigh alot more than I do and could toss me around like a little rag doll. I've been hit twice by a tree. One time was at this loggers course I took at school and I was limbing a tree and whilst I was limbing another tree came crashing down and just the branches hit me, if i was a foot or two forward it would have been the pearly gates. Luckily I was wearing one of them fancy chainsaw hard hat deals. The other time I had a good sized maple that was hung up on a black birch and I tried droppin a decent sized black birch onto it to get it down since I didn't have access to a machine at the time, well..usually I get good and outta the way by once the tree starts going, but I was on a good rocky grade and there was snow on the ground. I figured I'd fall if I tried to get outta the way so I decided to stay put. well, it didn't go as planned and the black birch teeter tottered on the maple and swung back and slammed into me sending me right on my way out. I had tried getting away from it as it come towards me but it moved faster. right after it slammed into me it hit another birch tree that was up the hill a foot or so and then went back on it's way to teeter tottering. If that birch that stopped it wasn't there I'd have been in a much bigger mess. and if I was up about a foot i would have been wedged into the birch proberly would have had internal bleeding and stuff and I was all on my own out in the bush. My adrenaline was going for a good 45 min after that. 

He said that he's training a faller right now that's a young buck and he's working side by side with him right now. Said that he'd teach me anything I need to know and do what it takes to get me on my feet. He said that everyone runs everything, so everyone knows what's going on and what needs to be done. He said his crew is great and he buys breakfast and lunch and picks up the crew to drive to the site. I live a bit too far away for that though I'm about 40 miles away from his base station deal. He said that the all his equipment is new and in great condition and they take it easy on their equipment. He also said that the people who've been there awhile are making good money and getting good hours. 

I think I might have already learned a couple three lessons in getting to cut wood and having to cut wood, but that's firewood related, not falling timber. At the farm we go through a metric chit ton of wood per year, and I'm the guy who cuts splits and stacks it all.

Anyways, sorry for the long post, just wanted to provide everyone with the most amount of information I could to help my decision. 

Thanks for all the good info! 
Doug


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## RandyMac (Jan 11, 2013)

*TARZAN!!!!!!!*

Falling Old Growth Redwood. Humboldt County CA 2002 - YouTube


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Slowp's advice about setting a steady and sustainable pace is good.
> 
> Watch the videos of some of the pro fallers. TreeSlingr, Tarzan, Greenwedge...I've left some out but these are good to start with.
> They don't look fast but if you watch long enough you'll see that they're getting a lot of work done in a short period of time. They're smooth, there's very little wasted motion, and they're producing quality logs.
> ...



Just watched a few videos and yes sir you're right they do make it look easy. I understand the importance of directional felling and planning it all out so that it makes skidding faster and more efficient. I'm all sorts of excited about seeing this guys operation and how it all works, and to be learning. I love to learn and I ask alot of quesitons so we'll see what this guy thinks of me and I'll report back on what I think of his operation.


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> my axe handle is the distance from my eye to my thumb, with my arm straight out.
> Its an old boy scout trick for seeing where the top is gonna hit, or how tall it is.
> 
> for example mine is... 26.5" to the head



Great contribution! about 27-13/16" for me. Now do you cut your handle so that it's 26.5" from the end of the handle to the end of the bit? like if you set the axe on the ground with the handle facing up it's 26.5" to the end of the handle?


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## redprospector (Jan 11, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Have you met Bob? That tuckered out old man could chase me down and whip my ass.



Hahaha. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Bob in person. I have little doubt that he could whip my ass, but I can promise you that he would have to chase me down to do it. 

Andy


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## northmanlogging (Jan 11, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Great contribution! about 27-13/16" for me. Now do you cut your handle so that it's 26.5" from the end of the handle to the end of the bit? like if you set the axe on the ground with the handle facing up it's 26.5" to the end of the handle?



26.5 end to end, handle started as 28" I just set the head a bit deeper than is strictly kosher, and whack the excess off... I use a straight handle, the bent ones mess up the swing when trying to use the hammer side (known as the poll), also its just a 4# Craftsmen, an old one...

If I cup the head in my palm and point at the stump, then use the end of the handle and line it up with the top, where I'm standing will be where the top "should" land.

I imagine most of the pro fallers don't worry much about this but a good portion of my falling work is around houses, fences, roads, and a myriad of other pains in the neck... most of the time I come up a few feet short of where I said it would fall but that's ok, beats too far, one of the last tree jobs I did, my partner stabbed his saw wrench into the dirt and told some one that was where I would put it, I was unaware of this and still only missed by a few inches... pop cans make great targets for trees as well as guns...


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

About how much money could a good faller get paid? The job i'm at right now, if I stay there, I'll be making over $50/hr, $100/hr overtime, all sorts of benefits and insurance... just thinking about my career path in the long run. I don't need much money, just enough to provide for a family, have a nice truck, small house with some land, and some toys like fourwheeler and snowmobile, and be able to pay off bills without going into debt. That's all what I want. Oh and I also want to be there to see my kids grow up, I know of a few people at work who are making one hell of alot of money working doubles and steam/gas shutdowns and yea they make alot of money, but they dont see their kids grow up they're working too much.


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## paccity (Jan 11, 2013)

and another important thing to bring is a good attitude. make it as fun as possible. .......................... the last part might wear off with time.


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## 056 kid (Jan 11, 2013)

4x4American said:


> About how much money could a good faller get paid? The job i'm at right now, if I stay there, I'll be making over $50/hr, $100/hr overtime, all sorts of benefits and insurance... just thinking about my career path in the long run. I don't need much money, just enough to provide for a family, have a nice truck, small house with some land, and some toys like fourwheeler and snowmobile, and be able to pay off bills without going into debt. That's all what I want. Oh and I also want to be there to see my kids grow up, I know of a few people at work who are making one hell of alot of money working doubles and steam/gas shutdowns and yea they make alot of money, but they dont see their kids grow up they're working too much.



Ummm, 50 an hour? 100 an hour for over time? Sign me the #### up for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Wait, what's overtime??


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## logging22 (Jan 11, 2013)

paccity said:


> and another important thing to bring is a good attitude. make it as fun as possible. .......................... the last part might wear off with time.



I get up every day with the "cant wait to get there attitude". I truly love logging. Every part of it. Some of it i like better than others, but its a lifestyle for me. A way of life. Ive had other jobs, but logging is it for me. I would wager that some of the other loggers here feel the same way.


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

logging22 said:


> I get up every day with the "cant wait to get there attitude". I truly love logging. Every part of it. Some of it i like better than others, but its a lifestyle for me. A way of life. Ive had other jobs, but logging is it for me. I would wager that some of the other loggers here feel the same way.



That's exactly what I'm thinking. If I spend most of my life working why wouldn't I wanna do something that I love. Now I ain't saying that I know I'm gonna love it, but I'm proberly gonna love it, and that's gonna be awesome. My good friend is trying to forewarn me of leaving the job I got now, he's playing the devils advocate trying to help me make a decision.


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## 1270d (Jan 11, 2013)

logging22 said:


> I get up every day with the "cant wait to get there attitude". I truly love logging. Every part of it. Some of it i like better than others, but its a lifestyle for me. A way of life. Ive had other jobs, but logging is it for me. I would wager that some of the other loggers here feel the same way.




This is how logging is for me also. Its been ten years since I first went into the woods as a job. Its still fun and I don't know why. Most of the time im a cab rat running a harvester. Ten to twelve hour days, hour to hour and a half drive one way. Rain, snow, hot, cold, bugs, mud,breakdowns. I dunno it grows on you for some we.ird reason. When my wife talks about a vacation, I suggest a week in the northwest somewhere. Ill haul pack for some faller, maybe cut a few if they let me, she can shop or whatever. She wasn't too excited about this, supposedly its not a great idea for a family vacation.


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

056 kid said:


> Ummm, 50 an hour? 100 an hour for over time? Sign me the #### up for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Wait, what's overtime??



Ok I reckon I'll give ya the skippy.
Right now I'm commuting about 45 miles to work each day working in Bronx, NY. It's a part of NYC. I was scared at first to go work there for a few reasons, but they offered to pay me $20/hr and free diesel fuel for my truck. My boss was telling me over the phone about some the dangers of working there, like how he'd be working on one side of his truck and come around to a crackhead stealing #### on the other side and getting a gun or knife pulled on him. He told me that it's not about the outcome it's about the income. My boss is a local 15 guy (international union of operating engineers) I believe they're getting like $60 bucks an hour now and any overtime is double time for them....so he gets $120/hr for anything over 40 hours a week. Plus he gets a coffee break and a lunch break but we only take one break at around 10 for breakfast and thats it. Plus he has his very own Ford F750 service body truck loaded to the gills. It's got a welder/generator on it, air system, air compressor, 200 gallon fuel transfer tank, 5 ton crane, all sorts of stuff. Thats his he commutes in that every day. He's got his own little office and a big old shop with a ten ton crane that reaches anywhere in the shop. Pretty much they want me to be him eventually once he retires. He's taken me under his wing and has been learning me all sorts of stuff. The corporation shorted me pay once and he made it right by buying me oxy-acetylene tanks, gauges, hoses, torch, cart, tips, brake pads and rotors for my truck. Fixing stuff is occasionally fun for me, but it dont get my peterbilt hard. I want to get as far away from the city of new york city as I possibly can. I lived out in morrisville ny for 2 years when I went to the state college there and I think that's about where I wanna live, if I didn't have so many friends there that I visit so frequently I'd be moving to GA with my dads half of the family.


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

056 kid said:


> Ummm, 50 an hour? 100 an hour for over time? Sign me the #### up for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Wait, what's overtime??



Hey man go find Danella Corporation, they pay great and are located in over 14 states and do work in almost every single one! We even have a chistmas party with an open bar!!


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## logging22 (Jan 11, 2013)

How far does one have to drive from NYC to find trees to cut. Just wondering.


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## 4x4American (Jan 11, 2013)

logging22 said:


> How far does one have to drive from NYC to find trees to cut. Just wondering.



I live in a heavily wooded area. I got 1600 acres of county land in my backyard plus a county owned shooting range. You'd be surprised, I'd say about 30 miles around the city of NYC there's not too much trees, lots of opportunities for tree care companies though. arborists get paid top dollar. But anyways, once you start gettin to northern westchester/putnam county, there's trees and hunters in them trees. we had crews up here from alabama to canada when hurricane sandy come through. I talked with some guys from missouri, they were some real good folk and talked about the huge bucks they been seeing around here. We do have big deer and lots of em. I'll try and find a pic from my game cam to post up on here.


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## paccity (Jan 11, 2013)

logging22 said:


> I get up every day with the "cant wait to get there attitude". I truly love logging. Every part of it. Some of it i like better than others, but its a lifestyle for me. A way of life. Ive had other jobs, but logging is it for me. I would wager that some of the other loggers here feel the same way.


i agree , but i'll wager that there's day's it's not fun at all.. love and fun can be two different animals .


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## hunter h (Jan 13, 2013)

4x4American said:


> About how much money could a good faller get paid? The job i'm at right now, if I stay there, I'll be making over $50/hr, $100/hr overtime, all sorts of benefits and insurance... just thinking about my career path in the long run. I don't need much money, just enough to provide for a family, have a nice truck, small house with some land, and some toys like fourwheeler and snowmobile, and be able to pay off bills without going into debt. That's all what I want. Oh and I also want to be there to see my kids grow up, I know of a few people at work who are making one hell of alot of money working doubles and steam/gas shutdowns and yea they make alot of money, but they dont see their kids grow up they're working too much.



Dont need much money just enough to provide for a family nice truck house land toys and no debt. That is a mouth full of stuff on not much money. I do not mean to sound negitive I do wish you luck and if you can do what you like to do and still do all of those things more power to you. It has been my experiance that there is never enough time and kids grow up fast. It sounds like what you are looking for are the things most all of us are tring to provide and it is not always cheap. Good luck and try and stay safe and healthy I found my self haveing back surgery a couple of years ago at age 38 the woods can be hard on the body.


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## 4x4American (Jan 13, 2013)

hunter h said:


> Dont need much money just enough to provide for a family nice truck house land toys and no debt. That is a mouth full of stuff on not much money. I do not mean to sound negitive I do wish you luck and if you can do what you like to do and still do all of those things more power to you. It has been my experiance that there is never enough time and kids grow up fast. It sounds like what you are looking for are the things most all of us are tring to provide and it is not always cheap. Good luck and try and stay safe and healthy I found my self haveing back surgery a couple of years ago at age 38 the woods can be hard on the body.



thank you for your thoughts...yea my buddy has got me thinking about my future and taking this logging job vs leaving the cushy union job that I have right now. I have a college education in diesel technology and it seems like a waste if I go taking this logging job. I just enjoy working in the woods way more than working in a shop. All the bad chemicals I breathe in can't be good, I hack up nasty looking stuff. Bossman runs engines in the shop without any ventilation daily and I breathe in nasty chemicals all day long. I signed up for it though, it's the way it goes. My brains just in overdrive mode thinking about this so much. 
Thanks again, Doug


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## twochains (Jan 13, 2013)

That mind in overdrive deal is the white speck in chicken ####. Meaning that is your brain...everything else is corrupted with the want to go logging. Your brain knows there is a real potential to not make as much for a while, and live a little uncomfortable. You are going to have to answer your own question. I think you should wait till better weather and have more of a shot at steady work.


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## Gologit (Jan 13, 2013)

twochains said:


> That mind in overdrive deal is the white speck in chicken ####. Meaning that is your brain...everything else is corrupted with the want to go logging. Your brain knows there is a real potential to not make as much for a while, and live a little uncomfortable. You are going to have to answer your own question. I think you should wait till better weather and have more of a shot at steady work.



:msp_biggrin: Yeah, and back when we started and some older, wiser, guy told us the same thing...did we listen?

Hell, no. We were going loggin'...and that's all there was to it.

Now we're the older, maybe wiser, guys, and we caution the young guys...and they don't listen a darn bit better than we did.:msp_biggrin:


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> :msp_biggrin: Yeah, and back when we started and some older, wiser, guy told us the same thing...did we listen?
> 
> Hell, no. We were going loggin'...and that's all there was to it.
> 
> Now we're the older, maybe wiser, guys, and we caution the young guys...and they don't listen a darn bit better than we did.:msp_biggrin:



My old man gave me the same song and dance, mostly about being a mechanic... so I warped his advice into pursuing a career as a wannabe logger (forester). The pay is less, in the beginning, and the B.S. is quite similar... I love doin it though and there are the perks of the job; such as finding something to do inside on a nasty day or outside on a nice one... I'm honestly not that bad  Some of my most enjoyable days were the more miserable ones that I never said I'd do again but went and repeated anyways.

Good luck to ya 4X4 gotta do what ya love.


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## ShermanC (Jan 14, 2013)

*Timbering tool sources*



Driver625 said:


> Its called a scabbard. If you google aluminum axe scabbard they' re available online.


Both American Arborist and Forestry Supply have catalogs, printed as well as online. Also check Baileysonline.com. Good luck and be safe.


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## twochains (Jan 14, 2013)

treetopguy2028, pm received, Thanks! I will message back or call this evening.


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## slowp (Jan 14, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> My old man gave me the same song and dance, mostly about being a mechanic... so I warped his advice into pursuing a career as a wannabe logger (forester). The pay is less, in the beginning, and the B.S. is quite similar... I love doin it though and there are the perks of the job; such as finding something to do inside on a nasty day or outside on a nice one... I'm honestly not that bad  Some of my most enjoyable days were the more miserable ones that I never said I'd do again but went and repeated anyways.
> 
> Good luck to ya 4X4 gotta do what ya love.



Just don't become a sale administrator. You'll have to go out on those nasty days too. Or I guess you really don't *have* to. But you should.


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 14, 2013)

slowp said:


> Just don't become a sale administrator. You'll have to go out on those nasty days too. Or I guess you really don't *have* to. But you should.



Haha well I guess I just kinda did for the summer. Internin up on the Peninsula outta PA. Gonna be doin merch cruising, logging admin, and scaling. Gotta go out on all the nasty days lol

I don't mind those nasty days. I'll do what I have to to get the job done.


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## 4x4American (Jan 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> :msp_biggrin: Yeah, and back when we started and some older, wiser, guy told us the same thing...did we listen?
> 
> Hell, no. We were going loggin'...and that's all there was to it.
> 
> Now we're the older, maybe wiser, guys, and we caution the young guys...and they don't listen a darn bit better than we did.:msp_biggrin:




I wanna go loggin!


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## 4x4American (Jan 14, 2013)

twochains said:


> That mind in overdrive deal is the white speck in chicken ####. Meaning that is your brain...everything else is corrupted with the want to go logging. Your brain knows there is a real potential to not make as much for a while, and live a little uncomfortable. You are going to have to answer your own question. I think you should wait till better weather and have more of a shot at steady work.



well shoot...believe I'm corrupted!


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## dhskier2 (Jan 15, 2013)

Federal poverty threshold for a family of 4 is $23k/yr. $100/8hr day is $26k/yr... Not a lot of room for nice truck, modest toys, small acreage etc.
I'm right there with you on a job that makes you happy though... I'm back in school to finish my bachelors degree in forestry- "wannabe logger" style :msp_biggrin:
My previous prospects weren't as high on the hog as yours, but enough that my wife could stay home with the kids 75% of the week. It was a tough choice and a lot of support from her to make the career shift.

Do you have the option with current employer for short-term leave, or max out your vaca time to get a couple weeks on the job with this logging outfit before you make the jump?


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## PLMCRZY (Jan 15, 2013)

Hey i hope the new job works out for you! 

This reminds me of when i was just getting into the steel business. I was about 13 and worked along side my buddies dad. He was an ex iron worker and pipe fitter from back in the 70s. He would wear my azz out some days for not thinking. But after a few years i knew what was going on in the trade just from working summers with him. 

I went on my own when i was 19 or so. I wasn't making much but i had my own rig and i was hanging and welding iron. Some jobs took a long time since it was just me and my buddy. When the economy tanked i jumped out and just did side work. Enough to feed me and have a little fun.

I was tired of not having benefits and tired of worrying if there was work. I applied at fabrication shop, showed him my certs, then did a weld test. Past with flying colors. I was 21. I made 42k that year and its been going up ever since. This year in 8 months i made 45k im only 23 so im doing alright i think. 

Just recently i divorced my iron and now run a rig hauling the iron to all the jobsites. I occasionally will help out hanging or welding but hardly.

I guess my point is sometimes you have to start out making hardly anything to make anything. Im 23 i drive a truck around all day and get to bs with all the ironworkers i used to work with. My job is great!

Its never to late to learn more trades, it sounds like your a fast learner so this could really work out for you. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

dhskier2 said:


> Federal poverty threshold for a family of 4 is $23k/yr. $100/8hr day is $26k/yr... Not a lot of room for nice truck, modest toys, small acreage etc.
> I'm right there with you on a job that makes you happy though... I'm back in school to finish my bachelors degree in forestry- "wannabe logger" style :msp_biggrin:
> My previous prospects weren't as high on the hog as yours, but enough that my wife could stay home with the kids 75% of the week. It was a tough choice and a lot of support from her to make the career shift.
> 
> Do you have the option with current employer for short-term leave, or max out your vaca time to get a couple weeks on the job with this logging outfit before you make the jump?



I could proberly work out some sort of short term leave deal. they did that for me when I was going through college. Not sure about now though our company is going through a corporate audit thingie mabobber and they're cracking down on everything.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

PLMCRZY said:


> Hey i hope the new job works out for you!
> 
> This reminds me of when i was just getting into the steel business. I was about 13 and worked along side my buddies dad. He was an ex iron worker and pipe fitter from back in the 70s. He would wear my azz out some days for not thinking. But after a few years i knew what was going on in the trade just from working summers with him.
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing. Yea I believe I could be allright doing side work too. I can weld, fabricate, fix things, drive/operate anything on the land. Once I get my cdl I know I'll never be outta work cause the country depends so heavily on the trucking industry, that aint goin nowhere.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

How do yawl tote yer TP around in the woods?


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

be funny to see a TP holster or something along them lines


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## 1270d (Jan 15, 2013)

Shirt sleeves. You get two uses out of each tee shirt. The time in between deposits looks a little weird when you only have one sleeve.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

haha yea, well shoot its too cold out here for that! allthough long sleeves you could get quite a few uses out of, just cut off a piece at a time, talk about lookin funny. better yet dont cut them even like, start with one side, then the other. thatd be funny. bossman nowadays says that he always wears two pairs of socks in case he's gotta go, I ask him if he likes rubbing his hairy arse with his sweat drenched socks...


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## PLMCRZY (Jan 15, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Thanks for sharing. Yea I believe I could be allright doing side work too. I can weld, fabricate, fix things, drive/operate anything on the land. Once I get my cdl I know I'll never be outta work cause the country depends so heavily on the trucking industry, that aint goin nowhere.



Cdl is great to have but if you have no training running a rig you wont get hired in anything. I went thru a training program. Still didn't know what the hell i was doing. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## 056 kid (Jan 15, 2013)

4x4American said:


> How do yawl tote yer TP around in the woods?



It's called foliage and moss. 


If the aforementioned is not available, a section of shirt tail or sleeve it is.


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## twochains (Jan 15, 2013)

4x4American said:


> How do yawl tote yer TP around in the woods?



Paper towels folded in pocket or back pack. That's hilarious...you say "y'all" in NYC???  I bet that goes over like a fart in yoga class...


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## 1270d (Jan 15, 2013)

Forgot to mention in winter time snow mice work well too. A little cold on the cheeks, but in a pinch....


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

twochains said:


> Paper towels folded in pocket or back pack. That's hilarious...you say "y'all" in NYC???  I bet that goes over like a fart in yoga class...



well...my grandma we call her Lallah has raised me up from the ground and she says all them southern thangs...shes from GA. Grandpappy is gone now but he had a thick accent and he raised my pappy and its just kinda gone down the line. all my cousins still call us yankees when we talk or have gtgs...and hey now! I aint from NYC! I'm just workin there right now cause they pay alot of money, commute 45 miles to the tip each day. I smell cow turd every morn from the beef/dairy farm down the road...in NYC they dont got that pleasure, they just smell septic waste, trash, and alot of human farts.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

056 kid said:


> It's called foliage and moss.
> 
> 
> If the aforementioned is not available, a section of shirt tail or sleeve it is.



Yup been there quite a few times...but ppl kept sayin bring TP..I was wonderin how they toted it around with them.


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## slowp (Jan 15, 2013)

Um, don't you have plastic bags to carry paper of the toilet in? It keeps it dry until needed.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

slowp said:


> Um, don't you have plastic bags to carry paper of the toilet in? It keeps it dry until needed.



plastic bags? whats that?


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## Gologit (Jan 15, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Yup been there quite a few times...but ppl kept sayin bring TP..I was wonderin how they toted it around with them.



Well, you could cut it into long streamers and glue a few of them to your hard hat...kinda like a human windsock...but most people just wad some up and carry it in their pocket. If it's raining put the tp in a sandwich baggy.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Well, you could cut it into long streamers and glue a few of them to your hard hat...kinda like a human windsock...but most people just wad some up and carry it in their pocket. If it's raining put the tp in a sandwich baggy.



hah! i wonder what the bossman would say if I showed up to work like that...


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## redprospector (Jan 15, 2013)

4x4American said:


> hah! i wonder what the bossman would say if I showed up to work like that...



Friggin greenhorn!

Andy


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## twochains (Jan 15, 2013)

4x4American said:


> hah! i wonder what the bossman would say if I showed up to work like that...



Imagine his response in Shelby's voice..."Oh My God, somebody has done wiped their ass with that boy's head"! :msp_biggrin:


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## northmanlogging (Jan 15, 2013)

use yer pockets, sleeves, cuffs, socks whats left of yer skivvies, in that order... or just do like a cousin of mine and just slip and fall in it, then go swimming. Watch for stinging nettles if ya got em or poison ivy/oak

you could maybe catch a squirrel and pretend your Thor... gotta be a white squirrel though...


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## 4x4American (Jan 17, 2013)

Talked to the new bossman today, I asked him what all I should bring with me, he said nothing. He's got everything I need, he even buys breakfast and lunch. He said he supplys 372 half wraps with 24" bars. He said that he dont use anything more than half wrap because he cuts the stumps so low to the ground that the wrap gets in the way...not sure what to think on that one...he says that out west in the softwoods they can cut stumps higher or something because they're so much bigger but out in the hardwoods we need every inch we can get...dont sound too great to me. he said that if I wanted to wear calks I could but he said that right now working out near pine bush its so rocky terrain that the calks wear down way too quick and they dont grip that great in hardwood and this and that. He dint sound like a bad guy, said he's been logging for 47 years, he's 60 years old now, and still kickin.


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## mitch95100 (Jan 17, 2013)

Still a bbackup saw is a good idea espically if it's yet own...

Sent from my USCCADR3305 using Tapatalk 2


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## 4x4American (Jan 18, 2013)

mitch95100 said:


> Still a bbackup saw is a good idea espically if it's yet own...
> 
> Sent from my USCCADR3305 using Tapatalk 2



yup, will bring two or 3 saws for backup.


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## twochains (Jan 18, 2013)

When do you start your new job?


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## GASoline71 (Jan 18, 2013)

If you're offered a slice of humble pie... eat it with a smile.

Have thick skin... you'll need it. At least around here you do.

Gary


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## RandyMac (Jan 19, 2013)

GASoline71 said:


> If you're offered a slice of humble pie... eat it with a smile.
> 
> Have thick skin... you'll need it. At least around here you do.
> 
> Gary



Hey Bub! Was thinkin' you got yer ass trapped under that truck.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 19, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Talked to the new bossman today, I asked him what all I should bring with me, he said nothing. He's got everything I need, he even buys breakfast and lunch. He said he supplys 372 half wraps with 24" bars. He said that he dont use anything more than half wrap because he cuts the stumps so low to the ground that the wrap gets in the way...not sure what to think on that one...he says that out west in the softwoods they can cut stumps higher or something because they're so much bigger but out in the hardwoods we need every inch we can get...dont sound too great to me. he said that if I wanted to wear calks I could but he said that right now working out near pine bush its so rocky terrain that the calks wear down way too quick and they dont grip that great in hardwood and this and that. He dint sound like a bad guy, said he's been logging for 47 years, he's 60 years old now, and still kickin.



I ran a half-wrap out here the last two years I was contracting. We did mostly commercial thinning or straight falling at that time and the sale administrators were always breathing down our necks to get the stumps lower. 

Unfortunately, the wood in second-growth Doug Fir stumps is usually too wavy to make good lumber so the mills just chop that part off.


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## Samlock (Jan 19, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I ran a half-wrap out here the last two years I was contracting. We did mostly commercial thinning or straight falling at that time and the sale administrators were always breathing down our necks to get the stumps lower.
> 
> Unfortunately, the wood in second-growth Doug Fir stumps is usually too wavy to make good lumber so the mills just chop that part off.



The land owners around here they really appreciate/require short stumps. If I cut them higher than a 6'' or so, I can expect to hear about it afterwards. Funny - and frustrating - thing is I usually cut the first foot off while bucking because of the waves/flare.

Well, I guess the stumps are something visible remaining after the patch is cleared. You can't judge something you can't see before your eyes, can you?


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## slowp (Jan 19, 2013)

Future logs will get hung up on high stumps. Or foresters can get impaled on the tiny sharp ones left during precommercial thinning. Or at least get a very painful bruise. 

If big enough, high stumps in clearcuts are good to hide behind when broadcast burning and stuff starts rolling down the hill. Or during those yarding operations when the lines are straining. That's about it.
Otherwise, they are a pain.


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## GASoline71 (Jan 19, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Hey Bub! Was thinkin' you got yer ass trapped under that truck.



Hiya pard'! Been busy with work, and building hot rods. Also got engaged right around Xmas... good to finally find the time to give you'se guys a poke in the ribs now and again. 

Gary


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## 4x4American (Jan 19, 2013)

*First day was awesome!*

Just got back from my first day, it went awesome! and fast! I showed up there 20 min early and the bossman really liked that, I met the crew, small but good folk. Bossman is an old timer, 60 years old, been a logger for 47 years. He gave me a brand new pair of chaps and my saw for the day, a one month old Husky 372 with a 24" bar and round ground chisel chain. We got at her I got a ride out to the cutting area in the skidder which is a 2001 (give or take) Timberjack 360 that he bought new. Anyways, the boss went up to a tree, showed me how he likes to drop them and away we went. I did the next one and he watched, he gave me a few pointers and by the second tree he was happy with my stump and the way I dropped and topped it. They're doing a thinning right now cant remember how many board feet there are in this job but there's around 200 acres and just under 1000 trees for us to cut. Mainly oaks ranging from 16"-26" and a few bigger ones in between. Anyways, after working from 7-10, the bossman left to get us breakfast while we kept going. He left us with some safety advice. Breakfast showed up on the skidder later and we stopped for a couple minutes had coffee and bacon egg and cheeses and got back at er. I chopped and topped proberly 25 trees going slow, taking my time to be safe. The bossman has us trim the trees really nice we smooth the knots out and trim all the buttresses and do a nice job, he says that the sawmill we go to pays us extra for having such nice trees. We also take extra time with the tops to make them nice. He says we're not racing to get as many trees cut as we can, we want to do a great job so we get work from the next guy. He really cares about his work being neat and I think that's awesome. So anyways, me and the other faller worked for a little over 9 hours, bossman stayed at the landing bucking and stacking timber and we had another guy on the skidder. Four man crew but we got a good bit done. The oak was hard on the chains I had to stop and touch up my chain fairly frequently. At the end of the day he showed me some pictures from when he lived out west cutting timber. Some real big stuff. Also showed my some pictures of pretty good sized trees from the west point area down the road from me. Also some pictures of some big bucks he's shot. He said that in all the years he's owned the company he's never run out of work. I asked him if I did a good job and he liked the way I worked, how long would it be til I'd get a raise, he said one week. He said the first week I'll get 100/day and the next week 120/day and then he said after a year or two I'd only go up. He said the last faller he had was really good and made 200/day. The pay is on the books too so that's just the gross pay, not sure what net comes out to. Anyways, the boss seemed to like me alot and so did the skidder operator and the other faller. The skidder operator only works weekends so during the week he said we'll proberly rotate me and the other faller every 2-3 days running skidder or falling. For clear cuts they've got a Bell feller buncher that I'd run also and right now his log truck driver is out for like 2 months and he needs someone with a cdl, I can drive big trucks I work on them and test drive them at work now but I don't have me cdl so I'll have to get that going.
Before I left the other faller said hey man you gotta quit your current job and come log with us! I said I think I might have to.
So now I have a decision to make on leaving my cushy union job that I dont really like but has good pay, to go do something that I love for less pay. 
Oh and also bossman told me that if I come work for him I can take a load of firewood home every day, they'll help load it up and all. That's big, I can make pretty good money off the firewood. He said that I could make 15 grand a year selling firewood with the amount that he's got for me.

I know that AS is big on pictures or it dint happen, so here's a few pictures that I took with my cell phone that are hard to see, sorry about the bad quality, my camera lens is all scratched up.

View attachment 274331
View attachment 274332
View attachment 274333


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## 1270d (Jan 19, 2013)

Sounds like a good, contientious boss. Now you gotta make the choice, love or money?


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## StihlKiwi (Jan 19, 2013)

Nice, sounds like your're in with a good crew.
What is the purpose of the thinning you are doing? 5 trees/acre sounds really low to me


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 19, 2013)

StihlKiwi said:


> Nice, sounds like your're in with a good crew.
> What is the purpose of the thinning you are doing? 5 trees/acre sounds really low to me



Yea that sounds really low. I'm not a hardwood guy but sounds like a selective cut to me. Selective is different than a thinning. Different objectives. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## GASoline71 (Jan 19, 2013)

Pair of graphs mang...

Old eyes no see so good. All I see is a big blurry block of words... 

Gary


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## KYLogger (Jan 19, 2013)

Sounds like it went well. Some points to ponder; granted my situation is different being young (is 29 still young???) and running my own show, but none the less. Winter SUCKS!!! (at least in my neck o' the woods) production easily drops by half compared to summer and fall. Rain, snow, mud.....repeat. Never gets cold enough to freeze hard. Maybe the ground freezes up hard that far north? What I am gettin at is expect your paycheck to drop in the winter due to weather and ground conditions. Numbero dos. Just my guess but I am gonna say there ain't (I am allowed to stay stuff like that cause I live south of the Mason Dixon line) no benefits. What kinda commute you gonna have? How far away does he range? And a bunch of other stuff i haven't thought of 

That bein' said, there is definately somethin' about doin' what you love!
That's why I am nearly broke in the middle of winter in the mud, and not considering a occupational change

Good luck, I know we ain't a whole lotta help................................


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## 1270d (Jan 19, 2013)

We quite often have two months in the spring where we can't haul wood due to the frost coming out of the roads. Maybe similar situation in NY. If you can't haul, you can't cut (or get paid)


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## twochains (Jan 19, 2013)

After you have been there a bit and get faster hit him up for pay by the load. If your crew doesn't have a de-limber...and it doesn't sound like you do...you can really increase your pay day. Glad it is coming together for ya!  Be safe! Good luck!


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## logging22 (Jan 19, 2013)

KYLogger said:


> Sounds like it went well. Some points to ponder; granted my situation is different being young (is 29 still young???) and running my own show, but none the less. Winter SUCKS!!! (at least in my neck o' the woods) production easily drops by half compared to summer and fall. Rain, snow, mud.....repeat. Never gets cold enough to freeze hard. Maybe the ground freezes up hard that far north? What I am gettin at is expect your paycheck to drop in the winter due to weather and ground conditions. Numbero dos. Just my guess but I am gonna say there ain't (I am allowed to stay stuff like that cause I live south of the Mason Dixon line) no benefits. What kinda commute you gonna have? How far away does he range? And a bunch of other stuff i haven't thought of
> 
> That bein' said, there is definately somethin' about doin' what you love!
> That's why I am nearly broke in the middle of winter in the mud, and not considering a occupational change
> ...




Yep. Mud, mud, mud and more mud. Belly pan deep right now. No hauling for a while. Bummer.


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## mitch95100 (Jan 19, 2013)

I would like to do that...

Sent from my USCCADR3305 using Tapatalk 2


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## 4x4American (Jan 19, 2013)

StihlKiwi said:


> Nice, sounds like your're in with a good crew.
> What is the purpose of the thinning you are doing? 5 trees/acre sounds really low to me



I reckon it aint thinning then...I also don't reall know the whole situation, but I know that we aren't clear cuttin everything..I'm just cuttin everything that's marked. 

Question for husky guys:
the 372 that they bought last month that I was using today, for the first few hours it was really hard to start, and when I put it on its side to cut something it'd just up and die on me and then it was hard to start again...anyone got any ideas? Saw is way to new to be actin like that I think.


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## 4x4American (Jan 19, 2013)

KYLogger said:


> Sounds like it went well. Some points to ponder; granted my situation is different being young (is 29 still young???) and running my own show, but none the less. Winter SUCKS!!! (at least in my neck o' the woods) production easily drops by half compared to summer and fall. Rain, snow, mud.....repeat. Never gets cold enough to freeze hard. Maybe the ground freezes up hard that far north? What I am gettin at is expect your paycheck to drop in the winter due to weather and ground conditions. Numbero dos. Just my guess but I am gonna say there ain't (I am allowed to stay stuff like that cause I live south of the Mason Dixon line) no benefits. What kinda commute you gonna have? How far away does he range? And a bunch of other stuff i haven't thought of
> 
> That bein' said, there is definately somethin' about doin' what you love!
> That's why I am nearly broke in the middle of winter in the mud, and not considering a occupational change
> ...



Yea the ground is funky right now, the skid trails were gettin muddy today when they thawed out. It's been gettin cold at night and warm during the day so the ground aint all too froze up round here. My old chippewars got pert near soaked today, time to apply obenhaufs


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## ShermanC (Jan 20, 2013)

*Winter weather, not much money, watching' tv forecast hoping to work next week*



4x4American said:


> Yea the ground is funky here too. Oh, there's plenty of work to be done but too doggone raw out there to make it happen. My buddy works another p.t. Job at an auto salvage body shop. He's had work there to keep him afloat while we wait for nature to give us a break. But ain't it fun to do tree work?!


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## twochains (Jan 20, 2013)

4x4American said:


> I reckon it aint thinning then...I also don't reall know the whole situation, but I know that we aren't clear cuttin everything..I'm just cuttin everything that's marked.
> 
> Question for husky guys:
> the 372 that they bought last month that I was using today, for the first few hours it was really hard to start, and when I put it on its side to cut something it'd just up and die on me and then it was hard to start again...anyone got any ideas? Saw is way to new to be actin like that I think.



Sounds like you are cutting tie market stumpage, say nothing less than 15 inch stump. As far as your saw, IDK about a Husky but check your internal gas line and make sure it is where it needs to be and see if it has trash on the little end filter. Normally if the revs start increasing on their own when turned on it's side it is usually crank seals....but yours is dying, that makes me think fuel line is kinked in the gas tank or the screen is clogged. One thing for sure...it ain't yours so at least that is good! :msp_biggrin:


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## 4x4American (Jan 20, 2013)

treetopguy2028 said:


> 4x4American said:
> 
> 
> > Yea the ground is funky here too. Oh, there's plenty of work to be done but too doggone raw out there to make it happen. My buddy works another p.t. Job at an auto salvage body shop. He's had work there to keep him afloat while we wait for nature to give us a break. But ain't it fun to do tree work?!
> ...


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## 4x4American (Jan 20, 2013)

twochains said:


> Sounds like you are cutting tie market stumpage, say nothing less than 15 inch stump. As far as your saw, IDK about a Husky but check your internal gas line and make sure it is where it needs to be and see if it has trash on the little end filter. Normally if the revs start increasing on their own when turned on it's side it is usually crank seals....but yours is dying, that makes me think fuel line is kinked in the gas tank or the screen is clogged. One thing for sure...it ain't yours so at least that is good! :msp_biggrin:



sounds good to me haha...and yea I thought that the gas line might've been kinked or cracked or something but it looked fine to me, I was shocked when he said the saw was only a month old. It got way better towards the end of the day almost like it needed to be broke in. I had to figure out its little quirks. I know how my Stihl saws like it, but the husky seemed way different. My 346 aint like this. Anyways...if you use the decomp valve, it makes it harder to start them for some reason. When the other faller told me that I was shocked...it worked though. These 372's seem WAY underpowered, all day I wanted to go grab my 461r to cut with. The other faller told me they had cats in em. I said well they better take the cats out've em before the word gets out!


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## 4x4American (Jan 20, 2013)

GASoline71 said:


> Pair of graphs mang...
> 
> Old eyes no see so good. All I see is a big blurry block of words...
> 
> Gary



Actually, nevermind the magnifying glass, if your computer is a windows pc, hold down the CTRL button and then press the += button that is on the left of the backspace, the screen will zoom in. If you want to go back out, hold the CTRL button and press the _- button on the left of the += button.


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## slowp (Jan 20, 2013)

(paragraph one) No, actually, paragraphs are what many people who post on various forums seem to have forgotten how to do. A paragraph is a *polite* thing to do anymore. Did you not learn of such a miraculous thing to do back in grade school? I should ramble on and on and on and on and on and on. For some reason, paragraphs make reading easier. 

(Paragraph two) When your thought changes, or subject varies, it is a good thing to start another paragraph. 

(Paragraph 3) I hope you understand. 

(Paragraph 4) Or is there a special button on a computer that will break up long, rambling writing and insert paragraphs? I think not.

(Paragraph 5) Please let us know how the Obenauf's works on the boots. Me thinks that you should be wearing rubber boots if conditions are so wet and muddy.


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## cpr (Jan 20, 2013)

372s never had cats. I believe it about starting one. They have large squish and not very high compression from new and the decomp may not leave enough squeeze to light it the first pull.

Lots of people talk about doing something, but you actually got up and did it. The right way, too. Having said that, giving up that union job would be impossible for me to do. Granted, this is coming from a perspective clouded by my life's experiences, but the house, acreage, and toys you said early on that you want will come to you with that job, along with health care, retirement savings, and a pension. Things that may not seem important now will become very important 20 years from now. Do I love my job in a bank? No, but it pays the bills, keeps my family happy, and gives me a little time and money to go out and play.

Please don't misunderstand, I am happy for you whatever you decide, but there is the difference between getting to and having to and for the money, you're really going to have to.


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## 4x4American (Jan 20, 2013)

slowp said:


> (paragraph one) No, actually, paragraphs are what many people who post on various forums seem to have forgotten how to do. A paragraph is a *polite* thing to do anymore. Did you not learn of such a miraculous thing to do back in grade school? I should ramble on and on and on and on and on and on. For some reason, paragraphs make reading easier.
> 
> (Paragraph two) When your thought changes, or subject varies, it is a good thing to start another paragraph.
> 
> ...




Sorry! I was eggs-cited and just kept rambling on..yes I learned about paragraphs in grade school, but that was soo long ago!


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## 4x4American (Jan 20, 2013)

cpr said:


> 372s never had cats. I believe it about starting one. They have large squish and not very high compression from new and the decomp may not leave enough squeeze to light it the first pull.
> 
> Lots of people talk about doing something, but you actually got up and did it. The right way, too. Having said that, giving up that union job would be impossible for me to do. Granted, this is coming from a perspective clouded by my life's experiences, but the house, acreage, and toys you said early on that you want will come to you with that job, along with health care, retirement savings, and a pension. Things that may not seem important now will become very important 20 years from now. Do I love my job in a bank? No, but it pays the bills, keeps my family happy, and gives me a little time and money to go out and play.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand, I am happy for you whatever you decide, but there is the difference between getting to and having to and for the money, you're really going to have to.



Thanks for your input! 
I'm leaning towards quitting my cushy union job that I don't enjoy..if all else fails down the road, I'll have my CDL and I'm sure one of the Teamsters from my job now will be able to get me in. and them fellers, let me tell you, they make some serious pocket change for doing damn near nothing! 
I could also get my ase welding certification and do something along them lines. I do side jobs welding for people and I weld alot at work I love welding too so there's more potentials for me.
Thanks for the thoughts!
Doug


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## 4x4American (Jan 20, 2013)

slowp said:


> (paragraph one) No, actually, paragraphs are what many people who post on various forums seem to have forgotten how to do. A paragraph is a *polite* thing to do anymore. Did you not learn of such a miraculous thing to do back in grade school? I should ramble on and on and on and on and on and on. For some reason, paragraphs make reading easier.
> 
> (Paragraph two) When your thought changes, or subject varies, it is a good thing to start another paragraph.
> 
> ...



I done made me a study an come to figure that ill start using paragraphs to make my rambling easier for everyone...I might even go back and paragraphasize it


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## cpr (Jan 20, 2013)

Go for it. Sounds like you have skills you can use. I'm not a carpenter anymore, but the bags are on a hook in the shop ready for the day I hope never comes.


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## 1270d (Jan 20, 2013)

cpr said:


> Go for it. Sounds like you have skills you can use. I'm not a carpenter anymore, but the bags are on a hook in the shop ready for the day I hope never comes.



My framing bags are on a hook in similar fashion. Empty as can be. Darn kids ran off with every nail, screw, hammer, catspaw, tape, chalk, square and swaggle I own. 


Oh well. Bags are lighter this way.:msp_wink:


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## redprospector (Jan 20, 2013)

Well, I guess I'll just put in 2 more cents worth. I don't expect it to be heeded, but I'm going to say it any way.
Before you quit your day job, think long and hard. I know you've already thought it out. Think longer and harder.
This job starts out at $100 a day, that's what...$100 to $150 a day cut from your current job? What about benefits? Those are few & far between in this industry. Ok, now I'll ask the big question. Is that really fair to your family? 
I only ask this as I look back on some of the jobs I've had. In the beginning of this thread you stated that you don't need much, and made a short list of the things you want. As I read your list I thought, stay with the job you have. I've been working in the woods for almost 30 years and am struggling to maintain the things in life that you want.
I've got a great wife that has stuck with me through thick & thin, but taking a cut in pay like that can put a strain on the best of relationships. I know this from experience. 
I've alway's told my kids that they need to do what they have to now, so they can do what they want to when that time comes.
I'm going to leave it at that, and wish you the best with whatever you decide.

Andy


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## Gologit (Jan 20, 2013)

That's the best advice I've heard in a long time.


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## 4x4American (Jan 21, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Well, I guess I'll just put in 2 more cents worth. I don't expect it to be heeded, but I'm going to say it any way.
> Before you quit your day job, think long and hard. I know you've already thought it out. Think longer and harder.
> This job starts out at $100 a day, that's what...$100 to $150 a day cut from your current job? What about benefits? Those are few & far between in this industry. Ok, now I'll ask the big question. Is that really fair to your family?
> I only ask this as I look back on some of the jobs I've had. In the beginning of this thread you stated that you don't need much, and made a short list of the things you want. As I read your list I thought, stay with the job you have. I've been working in the woods for almost 30 years and am struggling to maintain the things in life that you want.
> ...



Thanks, I'm gonna take that and chew on it today. I'm just a young buck right now 21 years old just got done with school and I'm living with my folks right now, me and a few buddies are planning on renting a house sometime in the near future. The pay cut will be big, but I need to get out of working in NYC. It ain't no kinda place for me I gotta get out. But I will still think hard about it.
Doug


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## imagineero (Jan 21, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Question for husky guys:
> the 372 that they bought last month that I was using today, for the first few hours it was really hard to start, and when I put it on its side to cut something it'd just up and die on me and then it was hard to start again...anyone got any ideas?



You probably know this already, but it's worth mentioning just in case you don't; the 'high idle' circut on huskies is activated by pulling the choke out and pushing it back in, then starting the saw as normal. This is the same as the 'half choke/throttle lock' on stihl saws. Don't use the decomp, just pull the choke out, push it back in, make sure your chain brake is engaged then pull her over. Click the throttle to take it off high idle. 

Shaun


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## 4x4American (Jan 21, 2013)

imagineero said:


> You probably know this already, but it's worth mentioning just in case you don't; the 'high idle' circut on huskies is activated by pulling the choke out and pushing it back in, then starting the saw as normal. This is the same as the 'half choke/throttle lock' on stihl saws. Don't use the decomp, just pull the choke out, push it back in, make sure your chain brake is engaged then pull her over. Click the throttle to take it off high idle.
> 
> Shaun



yessir, I was a pullin and a pushin on that choke nub alot


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## epicklein22 (Jan 21, 2013)

Definitely don't use the decomp with the XT versions of the 365/372. They'll flood easily if you do use it. Trying high idle is a good idea too. A lot of people have had the same problems, do a search on here. My dealer has had a lot of the same complaints.


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## 4x4American (Jan 22, 2013)

epicklein22 said:


> Definitely don't use the decomp with the XT versions of the 365/372. They'll flood easily if you do use it. Trying high idle is a good idea too. A lot of people have had the same problems, do a search on here. My dealer has had a lot of the same complaints.



That's odd. On my 066 and 461 they don't like to pull over too good without using the decomp, but on the 372 I noticed that the decomp dont make a huge difference on how easily it pulls over. I did notice that sometime whilst pulling it over, the starter gear deal wouldnt catch the flywheel it'd just skip throughout the whole pull. Wasn't really too impressed with the 372 X-torq's starting procedures or the power, seemed under powered pulling a 24" bar in all the oak trees we were cutting. I need to convince the bossman to get them woods ported.


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## Rounder (Jan 23, 2013)

Andy had a very good post. Just adding to what he stated so well.

I do what I love, at the cost of all the things I used to love. Not much time for fishing, hunting, backpacking, snowmobileing, playing with the dogs................etc.

So think it over real hard. I'm starting to wonder if a not so exciting job would be well worth having the time/energy to do all the other things I used to get excited about. That stuff has kind of gone by the wayside. And the years go by real quick. And I'm not that old.

Just give it some thought, this logging game is getting tougher, leaner and more demanding by the month anymore. - Sam


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## forestryworks (Jan 23, 2013)

Rounder said:


> Andy had a very good post. Just adding to what he stated so well.
> 
> I do what I love, at the cost of all the things I used to love. Not much time for fishing, hunting, backpacking, snowmobileing, playing with the dogs................etc.
> 
> ...



Excellent post and well said.


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## 4x4American (Jan 24, 2013)

Well I thought hard about my job situation for awhile, and today I gave my bossman 2 weeks notice. I thought he'd be really happy that I'd be leaving since he's always yelling at me telling me how he's going to replace me and that he doesn't need me, then I got word in from a coworker after I left he is really disappointed because I was his project and he wanted to teach me to be like him. If he wasn't so moody and ridiculously yelling at me over the smallest things I might feel bad, but for all the things he's said to me, I'm kinda almost sorta glad he's disappointed. If I do something right, he takes the credit, if he does something wrong, I take the blame. He loves trying to embarrass me in front of other people. I've had many a night where I lay awake cause his voice is stuck in my head screaming at me. But I've taken it all in stride and not let him know it gets to me so he lays it on thicker and heavier day by day. Most people at work think that he's the biggest ####### the way he treats me and all ask me how I haven't hit him or talked back to him yet. So at this point, I'm just going to take it day by day, let the road wind and see where it takes me.


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## 1270d (Jan 24, 2013)

Best of luck to ya


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## 4x4American (Jan 24, 2013)

1270d said:


> Best of luck to ya



Much obliged


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## KYLogger (Jan 24, 2013)

If you ever get too desperate I could always use a hand in the sunny south! But I don't think I would turn you loose fellin' timber right off the bat. But we always need a good landing man and a mechanic and a skidder operator and grease monkey and a choker setter and an accountant and a ..................... I can always think of something! LOL Too many shoes to fill and labor pool SUCKS!!!!

Good Luck man!


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## ShermanC (Jan 24, 2013)

*You will be better off by leaving and you'll find a better person to work with.*



redprospector said:


> I've followed this thread and developed some feelings about the situation and the boss employee relationship from a standpoint of human relations. The effort you made to do your best, to make the job work out and the mistreatment you experienced from your unfit boss will benefit you in the long haul. It should be a lesson you can use when and if you become a supervisor, not to treat your employees the way he treated you. Our industry is so short of good people who understand how to work safely, how to make their time work in favor of the company and the customer and how to take care of company assets while taking care of trees.


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## 4x4American (Jan 28, 2013)

KYLogger said:


> If you ever get too desperate I could always use a hand in the sunny south! But I don't think I would turn you loose fellin' timber right off the bat. But we always need a good landing man and a mechanic and a skidder operator and grease monkey and a choker setter and an accountant and a ..................... I can always think of something! LOL Too many shoes to fill and labor pool SUCKS!!!!
> 
> Good Luck man!



preciate the offer, if I ever get turned loose in KY I'll be sure to give ya a holler


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## 4x4American (Jan 29, 2013)

*Gear Questions*

I need a good belt that can clip on and off and tighten down good for my wedge pouch and ax scabbard, looking for something heavy duty that can be removed/attached quickly and easily. What do yawl like? I dont like the leather belt I have them on now, dont hold up well. I seen something from madsens that looked good but I have a few things piled up in my baileys shopping cart so I think it'd be easiest to order from them but having a hard time finding anything. Any help is much appreciated!

Also, how many of yawl wear chaps in the woods when working with a saw? We're not allowed to use a chainsaw without chaps on the job over here and the ones they give us are pretty bad they're full wrap but the straps won't stay on or tight and I spend too much time fussing with them.. I've read something about chaps that go on under the jeans sorta like john-longs, anyone have any experience with them? or can recommend a better pair to get myself?

One more gear question, what all do yawl carry on ya in the woods when falling trees? Looking for an EDC (every day carry). My c-spenders have two clips for keybacks, I figure I'll put a whistle on one, how bout the other?

Thanks for any info!
Doug


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## slowp (Jan 29, 2013)

I believe you are asking...boats? for advice?


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## 4x4American (Jan 29, 2013)

slowp said:


> I believe you are asking...boats? for advice?



find myself confused here slowp...I dont need no advice on boats, was looking for advice on gear, whered ya come up with boats?


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## twochains (Jan 29, 2013)

A "yawl" is a two masted sail boat...duh! 

I wear a small back pack contents:

extra chain, lunch and drink, extra wedge. I wear chaps...stihl brand. I carry a wedge and chainsaw tool in m back pocket, and carry a file in my chaps.


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## 4x4American (Jan 29, 2013)

twochains said:


> A "yawl" is a two masted sail boat...duh!
> 
> I wear a small back pack contents:
> 
> extra chain, lunch and drink, extra wedge. I wear chaps...stihl brand. I carry a wedge and chainsaw tool in m back pocket, and carry a file in my chaps.



never knew that, learn something new every day, in my case 3 things new every day- two things I didn't know and one thing I forgot. 

Anyways, backpack sounds like a decent idea, since we're a small operation, the skidder and the faller work closely together so I don't believe I'll need a backpack.


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## redprospector (Jan 29, 2013)

You'll figure it out. I just hate that it seems you're probably going to figure it out the hard way.

For a belt I use an old military web belt with suspenders attached. 
In time you will find that a pack is a good thing, even if you're working close to the skidder.
For future reference, spell it ya'll. That way people don't mistake you for a sailor. 

Andy


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## madhatte (Jan 29, 2013)

redprospector said:


> That way people don't mistake you for a sailor.



Been out of the Navy 8 years now and I can't imagine why you'd cast aspersions on our glorious, two-fisted, drunken, crackerjack-wearin', cussin' up a storm ways. OH WAIT -- I got OUT of the Navy because I was tired of that crap.

Carry on.


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## mile9socounty (Jan 29, 2013)

The company I work for makes us wear chaps. I don't know about the average person, but I wear the legs straps as loose as possible. Don't like things constricting my legs since we do a lot of walking. A pack pack is a must. I carry chains, files, flat files, mountain money, food, drink, coffee, dry sweater, pitch and all my wedges in it. While cutting I keep my wedges in my back pocket, file in my chew pocket and bar tool with it.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 29, 2013)

military type web belt and one o dem leather wedge pocket deals, Spencer log tape, spenders are for my pants, tin hat, and usually have the whistle on a lanyard around me neck, cause my spenders don't allways have the d-ring, write in the rain note book in breast pocket for keeping notes and figuring if'n the mills are trying to rip me off (which as a note they always are :msp_mad, and a beating axe...

In the wedge pouch I have 4-5 wedges from 8"-12" depending on the wood that day, a spare chain file and a scrench, and various amounts of fir/hemlock needles, chips, dirt, grease, a little blood... I try to dump it out once in a while, but dam it get full of funk... the picture isn't real great but gives you the idear...

Also I work pretty close to the truck so carring a back pack is kinda pointless, probably the one benefit of being a gyppo! That and I don't have to wear chaps...


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## slowp (Jan 30, 2013)

Good heavens! If the wrong people look at this thread, you'll get busted for saw abuse! :msp_thumbup:

Why does that picture make me think "Art"? Ah, because it could be controversial and stimulate a conversation.

Take your gear and skidder to Seattle and maybe you can sell it for an outrageous amount. It is a sculpture.


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## 4x4American (Jan 30, 2013)

mile9socounty said:


> The company I work for makes us wear chaps. I don't know about the average person, but I wear the legs straps as loose as possible. Don't like things constricting my legs since we do a lot of walking. A pack pack is a must. I carry chains, files, flat files, mountain money, food, drink, coffee, dry sweater, pitch and all my wedges in it. While cutting I keep my wedges in my back pocket, file in my chew pocket and bar tool with it.



ten fer on that one, yea bossman here said that every so often the safety nazis come by and he said they want to see anyone who uses a chainsaw wearing one of them chainsaw hard hats with the screen and ear muffs...I asked what's the difference ifen I wear a regular hard hat, ear plugs, and glasses? I figure that if they come by I'll ask them if it'd be awright to wear a reg hardhat ear plugs and glasses. Bossman hisself only wears a tin hat, he dont wear no eye or ear pretection.


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## 1270d (Jan 30, 2013)

4x4American said:


> ten fer on that one, yea bossman here said that every so often the safety nazis come by and he said they want to see anyone who uses a chainsaw wearing one of them chainsaw hard hats with the screen and ear muffs...I asked what's the difference ifen I wear a regular hard hat, ear plugs, and glasses? I figure that if they come by I'll ask them if it'd be awright to wear a reg hardhat ear plugs and glasses. Bossman hisself only wears a tin hat, he dont wear no eye or ear pretection.



The bossman hisself is the one paying for the workmans comp, and has probably not covered himself. Fairly common practice


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## 4x4American (Jan 30, 2013)

1270d said:


> The bossman hisself is the one paying for the workmans comp, and has probably not covered himself. Fairly common practice



ahhh icic says the blind man to his deaf son


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## Gologit (Jan 30, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> military type web belt and one o dem leather wedge pocket deals, Spencer log tape, spenders are for my pants, tin hat, and usually have the whistle on a lanyard around me neck, cause my spenders don't allways have the d-ring, write in the rain note book in breast pocket for keeping notes and figuring if'n the mills are trying to rip me off (which as a note they always are :msp_mad, and a beating axe...
> 
> In the wedge pouch I have 4-5 wedges from 8"-12" depending on the wood that day, a spare chain file and a scrench, and various amounts of fir/hemlock needles, chips, dirt, grease, a little blood... I try to dump it out once in a while, but dam it get full of funk... the picture isn't real great but gives you the idear...
> 
> Also I work pretty close to the truck so carring a back pack is kinda pointless, probably the one benefit of being a gyppo! That and I don't have to wear chaps...



Great picture...but if you posted it in the Chainsaw forum some of those "my saw is a holy object and must never be mistreated" people would probably have heart attacks. You know who I mean... the ones who sterilize their saws after every use and keep them in glass cases sitting on little velvet cushions. :msp_ohmy:


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 30, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Great picture...but if you posted it in the Chainsaw forum some of those "my saw is a holy object and must never be mistreated" people would probably have heart attacks. You know who I mean... the ones who sterilize their saws after every use and keep them in glass cases sitting on little velvet cushions. :msp_ohmy:



Haha git he already has. Testing out a self made reduced weight bar 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## mdavlee (Jan 30, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Great picture...but if you posted it in the Chainsaw forum some of those "my saw is a holy object and must never be mistreated" people would probably have heart attacks. You know who I mean... the ones who sterilize their saws after every use and keep them in glass cases sitting on little velvet cushions. :msp_ohmy:



It's not velvet it's satin dammit.:hmm3grin2orange:

I had a oops a couple firewood trips back. Set a saw on the tailgate to refuel and turned to pick the jug off the ground and turned and the saw was gone. It fell off the tailgate and rolled about 15 feet down the hill.


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## twochains (Jan 30, 2013)

4x4American said:


> ten fer on safety nazis who uses a chainsaw wearing one of them chainsaw hard hats and ear muffs... ifen I wear a hard hat, ear plugs, and glasses? I figure that if it'd be awright to wear a reg hardhat ear plugs and glasses. Bossman hisself only wears a tin hat, he dont wear no eye or ear pretection.



Fixed it fer yu'ins'! Winning!


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## northmanlogging (Jan 30, 2013)

slowp said:


> Good heavens! If the wrong people look at this thread, you'll get busted for saw abuse! :msp_thumbup:
> 
> Why does that picture make me think "Art"? Ah, because it could be controversial and stimulate a conversation.
> 
> Take your gear and skidder to Seattle and maybe you can sell it for an outrageous amount. It is a sculpture.



at 15 mph I'd have to use the fast lane... sure would be fun to squirsh a few pruisissesus...


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## northmanlogging (Jan 30, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Great picture...but if you posted it in the Chainsaw forum some of those "my saw is a holy object and must never be mistreated" people would probably have heart attacks. You know who I mean... the ones who sterilize their saws after every use and keep them in glass cases sitting on little velvet cushions. :msp_ohmy:



Hel that's the saw I got out of a bucket full of snus cans, algea, and the gods now what else, its should be happy I even clean the filter on a regular basis...


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## 4x4American (Jan 31, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> military type web belt and one o dem leather wedge pocket deals, Spencer log tape, spenders are for my pants, tin hat, and usually have the whistle on a lanyard around me neck, cause my spenders don't allways have the d-ring, write in the rain note book in breast pocket for keeping notes and figuring if'n the mills are trying to rip me off (which as a note they always are :msp_mad, and a beating axe...
> 
> In the wedge pouch I have 4-5 wedges from 8"-12" depending on the wood that day, a spare chain file and a scrench, and various amounts of fir/hemlock needles, chips, dirt, grease, a little blood... I try to dump it out once in a while, but dam it get full of funk... the picture isn't real great but gives you the idear...
> 
> Also I work pretty close to the truck so carring a back pack is kinda pointless, probably the one benefit of being a gyppo! That and I don't have to wear chaps...



whats that machine ya got her stuffed in looks like a dohn jeere 350 or 450


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## imagineero (Jan 31, 2013)

redprospector said:


> You'll figure it out. I just hate that it seems you're probably going to figure it out the hard way.
> 
> Andy



Those are the only lessons people remember ;-) Not a thing wrong with hard earned knowledge. I think that's part of the problem with the modern work ethic; spoon fed easy won knowledge doesn't have a lot of value, and is easily forgotten. 

Shaun


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## northmanlogging (Jan 31, 2013)

4x4American said:


> whats that machine ya got her stuffed in looks like a dohn jeere 350 or 450



Deere 440 A Skidder here unto known as "The Missus"


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## 4x4American (Jan 31, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> Deere 440 A Skidder here unto known as "The Missus"




haha I like that name


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## KYLogger (Jan 31, 2013)

My 440B got nicknamed "Peanut" while on a job with my buddy's skidder a 540A. Peanut does good:msp_biggrin:


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## 4x4American (Jan 31, 2013)

KYLogger said:


> My 440B got nicknamed "Peanut" while on a job with my buddy's skidder a 540A. Peanut does good:msp_biggrin:



haha. I reckon well have to come up with a name for our timberjack 360...I call the 450b we run at the sawmill Buela


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## northmanlogging (Jan 31, 2013)

The Wifey named the skidder... since she is kinda my mistress...


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## redprospector (Jan 31, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Those are the only lessons people remember ;-) Not a thing wrong with hard earned knowledge. I think that's part of the problem with the modern work ethic; spoon fed easy won knowledge doesn't have a lot of value, and is easily forgotten.
> 
> Shaun



I agree to an extent. Things like "that stove is hot" or "don't stick your finger in a light socket". But some things can be learned by the mistakes of others. Otherwise we'd all be carrying clubs, and grunting at each other.

Andy


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## madhatte (Jan 31, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Otherwise we'd all be carrying clubs, and grunting at each other.



Uhnnh.

*clang*


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## Gologit (Jan 31, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Otherwise we'd all be carrying clubs, and grunting at each other.
> 
> Andy



I see that you've been to Covelo on a Saturday night. :msp_scared:


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## redprospector (Feb 1, 2013)

Gologit said:


> I see that you've been to Covelo on a Saturday night. :msp_scared:



Not that I recall, but I did frequent the Desparado before it burned down around us one Saturday night. :msp_scared: 
I wish you wouldn't make me think of stuff like that. 

Andy


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## GASoline71 (Feb 1, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Those are the only lessons people remember ;-) Not a thing wrong with hard earned knowledge. I think that's part of the problem with the modern work ethic; spoon fed easy won knowledge doesn't have a lot of value, and is easily forgotten.
> 
> Shaun



That is so true, and you tend to remember when something hurts. But in this line of work, that can also get you killed dead.

Gary


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## nmurph (Feb 5, 2013)

This is one of the best threads I have ever read on AS. Maybe I should get out of the CS forum more often.

OP, if you can, stick with your union job. Your boss may not be the best, but the money is better, the bennies are better, the retirement is better, and the wear and tear on your body can't be any worse. I love the idea of working hard in the woods, and I am glad I own a farm big enough to allow me to be a weekend warrior. You are young and your think that $200/d is good money. It is until you have a kid in college, a mortgage payment, and start needing to go to the dr. more than once per decade.


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## Joe46 (Feb 5, 2013)

I can guarantee that working in the woods will get you into the Dr. more than once in a decade!


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## 4x4American (Feb 5, 2013)

nmurph said:


> This is one of the best threads I have ever read on AS. Maybe I should get out of the CS forum more often.
> 
> OP, if you can, stick with your union job. Your boss may not be the best, but the money is better, the bennies are better, the retirement is better, and the wear and tear on your body can't be any worse. I love the idea of working hard in the woods, and I am glad I own a farm big enough to allow me to be a weekend warrior. You are young and your think that $200/d is good money. It is until you have a kid in college, a mortgage payment, and start needing to go to the dr. more than once per decade.



Thanks for the advice! 
But...
I done quit my union job already...I wasn't in the union yet, wasn't too sure on if I was going to be able to get into one or not...

If things in the woods dont go so hot, my plan b is to try and get into the teamsters union and drive truck, or try and get into a welders union and become a welder. I have friends in both unions that I'm sure would be more than willing to help me get into their union. I will be driving truck for the logging company, and I am planning on getting a gas or diesel powered mig/tig/stick welder/generator to do side jobs and to keep my welding skills sharp. I needed to get out of working in the big city and back into the woods anyways, and this move is helping me start a new chapter in my life. 

My last day at the construction company is this thursday or friday. Bossman is letting me stay late tomorrow to build myself a nice headache rack for my pickemup truck as I'll be loading it with logs everyday at the new job. Gonna wire in some lights, make a new mount for my cb whip antenna that was previously on my toolbox...and he said they're gonna throw me a going away party lol. Gonna stock me up on brake clean, 15w-40, diesel fuel, ATF, power steering fluid, the whole 9. Then I'm done with the city and not planning on going back...well I might go and visit to fill up with fuel change my oil and work on my pickemup truck. 

And I know what you mean about the chainsaw forum, I can't spend all my AS time on that one forum haha I like this one alot.

Anyways, thanks again for the thoughts!

Doug


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## twochains (Feb 5, 2013)

With your welding background, your age, and knowledge of trucking...have you considered natural gas pipeline? For a young fellow like yourself it is a gold mine in the making! Maybe you could check into it. 

This is my last post on this thread, so I am going to end with this little summary.

At the age of 39 1/2 :msp_biggrin:, I have done everything you seemingly want to do, and I am not ashamed to tell you that life for me is a struggle. I have an ol'lady and a 10 year old son. I just wasn't cut out for a "collar" job, can't take people so well. I tried college...managed 22 hours and told my parents I was going to save them some money...I dropped out and left home, left the state entirely. I have always managed to work enough to get by...I own a couple vehicles, I have 54 acres of woods...I live in a mobile home. 

If you have cruised a thread I just started you will see that I am headed to another logging crew. In the thread you can read what people are telling me I am up against as far as self employment and taxes etc. At my age I shouldn't be worried about what is around the next corner... but I am scared to death! I have been logging 7 days a week for the last 3 weeks, this is going into my 4th and I am booked through weekends as far as the eye can see. I HAVE to do this to make my bills...and I don't even near live a luxurious life style, I don't even have credit card debt. 

All I am saying is this is a rough life in the bush for me. I love it, but when it becomes necessity to do what I am doing now, it is hard! You should see my hands, not only the scars and callous from 18 years of sawmills, logging, hay hauling...whatever it takes, but you should see them from just this past weekend! Fricken shredded by green briars tattooing them when the chainsaw hit, locus thorns stabbed into my legs, cedar top stickers buried in my hands.... I am not complaining, I am just trying to give you a realistic idea of what I have had to do...actually I am not even listing a 16th of what I have done or had to deal with.

I think the hardest part for me is the fact that I have nothing set up for the future, I have to live week to week for now. I'm sure that other people prolly don't suck at life as bad as I do but I just had some stuff I wanted to tell you. Like I said, this is my last post on this thread (prolly not that you care) if you ever have any questions or anything just pm me, always like to chat.

Good luck to you in whatever you end up doing, I am sure you will be fine with your choices. One thing in your benefit is your age... I'm boxed in.

Cheers!


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## 4x4American (Feb 5, 2013)

twochains said:


> With your welding background, your age, and knowledge of trucking...have you considered natural gas pipeline? For a young fellow like yourself it is a gold mine in the making! Maybe you could check into it.
> 
> This is my last post on this thread, so I am going to end with this little summary.
> 
> ...




wow great post! I have heavily considered natural gas pipeline, my buddy is getting into it now as an apprentice and he makes it sound not so great, same pay as the logging company, except, he has to go to class every night and dont get out til 9-ten pm! I know he's just getting started and its not going to be like that for a long time, but anyways, yea I think that being a pipeliner would be an awesome career. I'm full out into going logging at the moment, I could work for this guy for at least a year and see how it goes with him, raises, benefits, how selling the firewood goes, etc. Then from there I'm gonna take a look at the big picture and see if I'm gonna change my career path again. 

Anyways, now that my current career path choice is settled, I gotta couple few three questions, so twochains you mights best wanna stick around for a fellow east coast american citizen....

1) Should I use my own saw?
Even though this guy provides chainsaws and gas and this and that....I like my own equipment better. Would it be a bad idea to use my 461r? I know that #### can happen to it and its expensive....but I like it better than the 372xt's he provides. I am less than impressed with their performance, especially compared to my 461...so would it be a sin to use my own chainsaw and bars + chains? I might just be a stihl head but hey, I like what I like. 

2) What's wrong with 4 more inches? This is america, the bigger, the better!
He runs 24" bars for most felling operations, I would prefer a 28 incher. I'm 6'2" and the less bending the better and with a longer bar I can do more. My mind is purdy well set on this 28" spectrum of life. 

3) What kinda chain should I run?
Now for chain, we're cutting mainly oak, ash, maple, elm, but mainly oak on this job, lots of oak trees. Anyways, he provides oregen full comp round ground chisel chain. I'll get it really sharp, and then after dropping and topping a tree it'll seem dull again. Would a semi chisel chain be better for cutting oak? and how about chain sequence? For my 28" bar I got 1 full skip round ground chisel loop, 2 full comp round ground chisel loops and one RSLHK loop that I have had for awhile but dont want to use it because I don't know how to sharpen it and haven't found anyone who can teach me how to or do it for me. 

4) Should I carry a stump vise?
Is it worth the extra weight carrying a stump vise around or should I just saw a little bit into something for a makeshift vise? My back will get to hurtin if I sharpen in an awkward position and havin a hurtin back just aint no good for noone.


If you made it this far, thanks for reading through my long post, I spent a long time typing all that.
If you contribute anything, thank you in advance, I do appreciate it alot!
Doug


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## mdavlee (Feb 5, 2013)

There's plenty of stump vises out there. Bore in a little ways on a stump or cull tree and file away. 

If you don't mind traveling 9-11 months a year welding is a good career. I've done it since my 18th birthday but worked all as a journeyman out of welding school. I didn't come up union so I didn't go through apprenticeship and always have got paid top pay if you pass the test. You can't make as much money as you can spend if you're not careful. I've seen people get paid on Thursday and bumming lunch money on monday. If you're good at saving money you can work 6 months hard and stay home 6 months and live good. When I was single I thought it was the greatest life ever. Now that I'm married and have one daughter and another coming in less than 2 months now it sucks. Having to leave home not knowing when you'll go home without quitting the job you're going to is no fun with a pregnant wife and 4 year old saying don't go. 

Just a little perspective from someone not working in the woods and in fields you're considering.


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## 4x4American (Feb 5, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> There's plenty of stump vises out there. Bore in a little ways on a stump or cull tree and file away.
> 
> If you don't mind traveling 9-11 months a year welding is a good career. I've done it since my 18th birthday but worked all as a journeyman out of welding school. I didn't come up union so I didn't go through apprenticeship and always have got paid top pay if you pass the test. You can't make as much money as you can spend if you're not careful. I've seen people get paid on Thursday and bumming lunch money on monday. If you're good at saving money you can work 6 months hard and stay home 6 months and live good. When I was single I thought it was the greatest life ever. Now that I'm married and have one daughter and another coming in less than 2 months now it sucks. Having to leave home not knowing when you'll go home without quitting the job you're going to is no fun with a pregnant wife and 4 year old saying don't go.
> 
> Just a little perspective from someone not working in the woods and in fields you're considering.



Thanks for the good advice, sounds like fun til you get settled down


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## northmanlogging (Feb 5, 2013)

I would use my own saw, I get squeamish with other peoples tools, plus sounds like yer saw runs better, and being a tall bastard (I'm 6.0 in socks) having the exter 4" means less bending over and less back aching, (046-460's with 32" bars) lots of guys round here seem to run the 28's but there all short and tend to trip on the longer bars...:msp_biggrin:

As far as chains go... I don't mess with oak real often, but I've had better luck with stihl chains, just harder metal in em... and carry a bunch of chains with ya, one gets dull swapping it out is quicker than touching it up, get yerself a chain grinder if ya can afford it and save some time when you get home. I you can't afford a grinder... get an old beat to Hel bar and slap it in a bench vice with a comfy stool infront of it, works almost as well as having it on the saw without having to work around the power head... its dark outside otherwise I'd take a pikture...(no lights in the forge)


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## redprospector (Feb 5, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Thanks for the advice!
> But...
> I done quit my union job already...I wasn't in the union yet, wasn't too sure on if I was going to be able to get into one or not...
> 
> ...



Out of the frying pan...into the fire. 

Andy


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## 4x4American (Feb 6, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> I would use my own saw, I get squeamish with other peoples tools, plus sounds like yer saw runs better, and being a tall bastard (I'm 6.0 in socks) having the exter 4" means less bending over and less back aching, (046-460's with 32" bars) lots of guys round here seem to run the 28's but there all short and tend to trip on the longer bars...:msp_biggrin:
> 
> As far as chains go... I don't mess with oak real often, but I've had better luck with stihl chains, just harder metal in em... and carry a bunch of chains with ya, one gets dull swapping it out is quicker than touching it up, get yerself a chain grinder if ya can afford it and save some time when you get home. I you can't afford a grinder... get an old beat to Hel bar and slap it in a bench vice with a comfy stool infront of it, works almost as well as having it on the saw without having to work around the power head... its dark outside otherwise I'd take a pikture...(no lights in the forge)



That's what I'm thinkin. I like my stihl chains better than oregon chains thus far. I have an oregon 511ax grinder so plan is to sharp them at night. There aint no way to accurately grind rakers with the 511ax is there? My boss at the sawmill grinds rakers with his chain grinder. I've tried with the 511ax, but I cant get them as good as I can by hand yet, but it would be easier to use the grinder ifen i could.


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## 4x4American (Feb 6, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Out of the frying pan...into the fire.
> 
> Andy


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## 4x4American (Feb 12, 2013)

*Timberjack 360 smiling for the camera*

View attachment 278852


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## northmanlogging (Feb 12, 2013)

I assume yer still having fun?


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## 056 kid (Feb 12, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> I assume yer still having fun?



Mondays and Tuesday's are usually always fun unless one or fifty of a billion things go wrong. But on a smooth week by Thursday its a little harder to say goodbye to the sheets when the alarm sounds. And Friday can be one of those days where you feel like time is going in slow motion. Every whip does its job of smacking you in your face or hanging on your ax, every vine does its job of wrapping itself around both feet at once. Mud slicker than ice sends you to the deck. Head leaners find a way to sit back, back cleaners that you back,wedge and face dify gravity and sit on your face cut before there supposed to,there is dirt caked exactly where every bucking cut occurs, the equilibrium takes the day off and either your jugs or your saw go bounding down the hill like they have legs. It's a great wonderful way to make a living though.


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## imagineero (Feb 13, 2013)

_Now_ you're loggin'


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## 4x4American (Feb 13, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> I assume yer still having fun?



Monday and Tuesday sucked! I hated it. Monday was freezing rain all day whilst trudging through snow. Tuesday was just trudging through snow, and working side by side with this guy who's a jerk a-hole stupid thinks he knows it all type guy (supposed to be the log truck driver) but we couldnt send any loads out mon or tues so he was working in the woods with us making my day hell, guy thinks he's my boss cause he's been working there for 3 weeks and I've only worked 3 days. I watched him almost get crushed by a tree. I made a mistake, tried to get a pretty hard leaner to fall opposite it's lean. Reason was cause the other side was lots of rocks and the way I wanted it to go would put it right in line with the skid trail. The tree sat back on the bar, I got it out with a wedge, then I saw that my back cut wasn't lining up too good with the hinge, it was too low. I tried wedging it over, to no avail. Since my cut wasn't lining up, I had the bright idear to start another back cut that lined up. Well before I could get a wedge in the tree sat back on the bar. Tried for awhile, couldn't get it out. So I took off the powerhead. Then the skidder come by, riding shotgun in the skidder was the guy I can't stand. He got out and rubbed it in my face that I screwed up. Then the skidder operator decided to try and push the tree over in the direction of it's lean because he couldn't get around the back to push it over the direction of the cut. No luck pushing it over. Then he hooked a chain to it. The guy I don't like told me to get the hell outta the way, so I got the hell outta the way. Then the skidder started tugging on it while the guy I dont like stayed at the base of the tree for some reason I had no idea. Then the tree starts falling the way I cut it, and I see the guy I don't like running through the brush fast as he could holding the bar and chain. He's trying to out run the tree in the direction it's falling. The skidder operator is screaming run and everything got slow motion. I was screaming to run sideways cause I saw the whole thing I was like 200 ft from the base of the tree in the direction it was falling. The guy I don't like made it with a few feet to spare. If he fell or got tripped up he would have been dead or seriously injured. All to save a bar that was pinched hard from the skidder trying to push the tree over the other way. He then threw the bar and chain at me and said get your ####ing saw back together, which is when I found out that the bar was pinched. Then the guy who I don't like tried blaming his near death experience on me! It was his own damn fault that he ran that way and why would he even try to save a bar risking his life! You can buy more bars, you can't buy another life! So after that experience the guy I dont like told me that I was working with him for the rest of the day limbing and topping his trees. He gave me a whole speech about how I don't know anything and how he's the best cutter in the land. He said that he's been running a chainsaw since he was 8 years old and he's 28 now and this and that. I was thinking well if you're so damn good then how come I had to come get his chainsaw unstuck about 30 times yesterday and today? And how come 5 trees that he fell in a row got hung up when I didn't have one tree hang up or have any problems falling any trees right where I wanted them to go with the exception of the one I tried to defy gravity against. When the bossman found out that I was working with numbnuts for the rest of the day he said are you kidding me! I have hundreds of bars and chains at home them are pennies dont let a bar phase you that's how you learn, now keep falling. Monday and tueday really had me question my decision to switch career paths. 


So today numbnuts was out driving truck and I worked side by side with bossman falling trees, limbing, topping and hooking the logs to the skidder from 7 til noon then he went to the landing to buck and stack logs. He gave me 4 trees to drop and top and limb and such and a mess of tops to go level to keep me busy for the rest of the day. I got everything did and bossman was really happy nothing was split and he liked the way I sent the logs to him nice and trimmed and non of them split. He told me that I was improving greatly and "by the end of the week you'll be a timber faller...eerrrr well an apprentice timber faller, which is 2 steps above a greenhorn."

Today was a great day, though I really dreaded parting with the sheets this am though. Was in the 40's and nice, but the skid trails got trashed today. The town might be shutting us down due to some frost thing in about two weeks and we still have 100,000 board feet to cut on this job. Friday we're working at bear mountain taking care of 40 acres of windfalls. Bossman said that we're trying to get our foot in the door because they have 40,000 acres of untouched timber that he wants to log. 

I am growing more accustomed to the 372's we use. I dont like them as much as my stihls but they're okay I guess.

My body is still getting used to working the muscles that haven't been worked, my left arm I can tell is going to be strong than my right arm. I got a load of firewood monday. Bossman help me split it. I havent unloaded yet because I can't get to my woodpile since the field is snowed in, bossman says I'd better dump the wood off somewhere so that I can take home more wood, he said I should be taking home a face cord a day. 

The money aspect is the only thing that kinda sucks, the max I can make here is 200/day, bossman said the last faller he had working for him worked there for 10 years and he maxed out at 200/day but also took home a cord of wood in his truck everyday.
Anyways, that's my update, thanks to anyone who cared to read through this.
Doug


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## mdavlee (Feb 13, 2013)

The script writers from axmen will be calling for a better description to add to a show. You forget to yell look out. 

Sounds like an idiot of a guy to work with. Maybe you won't have to work with him any more.


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## ShermanC (Feb 13, 2013)

*Doug and the guy he can't stand to work around...good report.*



4x4American said:


> well Doug, I enjoyed reading your full report out loud to my wife...kind of a Valentines Day gift. LOL I like to give her an idea of some of the crappy days we have out there in the woods. Our weather has been a mix of sun, rain, efforts to snow and cold with a breeze now amd then. We ground stumps Monday but had to blow and rake leaves to get to bare ground and stumps we could find. The job is at a farm house where there are 130+ stumps under the leaves. I worked on both grinders today to inspect and rotate the cutters so we can get more cutting done tomorrow.
> 
> Hang in there and work safely.
> 
> ...


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## 4x4American (Feb 13, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> The script writers from axmen will be calling for a better description to add to a show. You forget to yell look out.
> 
> Sounds like an idiot of a guy to work with. Maybe you won't have to work with him any more.



Hahaha! The guy I hate to work with would fit right in on axmen. If I didn't have to work with him anymore, I'd be very happy cause I'm about fed up with him. The bossman today mentioned him, he said you know he dont know how to be a team player, did you hear the way he was talking to me yesterday? If I was ten years younger I woulda jacked his jaw....Then bossman commenced to give me and the skidder operator this little speech: "Now, greenhorns, it's good friday and there aint no pope! (takes off his hardhat and spits on the top of it and replaces tin hat) I'm now the pope and I say god gave us this timber for us to cut down and whoever said that money dont grow on trees is a got dang liar! Now let's go make some sawchips! (starts his saw and revs it up a bunch and cuts a cookie out of a nearby firewood log, doing a fancy little jig dance move thing at the end of the cut looking like a real BA) Now you bring a stihl in and try to keep up with me boy I'll show ya who makes the better saw!" haha well after this inspirational speech we were all sorts of hot to trot to bring in the timber. His good friend also died this morn, he told me "well I seen him a few days ago, so I dont have to go to his funeral, I'll just stand outside and sell cigarettes" hahaha he had me laughing hard, he's a funny feller ..errr... faller


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## Youngbuck20 (Feb 13, 2013)

Good read indeed! Always seems like theirs one idiot to ruin your day! How much can you get per cord in your area?


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## 4x4American (Feb 13, 2013)

treetopguy2028 said:


> 4x4American said:
> 
> 
> > well Doug, I enjoyed reading your full report out loud to my wife...kind of a Valentines Day gift. LOL I like to give her an idea of some of the crappy days we have out there in the woods. Our weather has been a mix of sun, rain, efforts to snow and cold with a breeze now amd then. We ground stumps Monday but had to blow and rake leaves to get to bare ground and stumps we could find. The job is at a farm house where there are 130+ stumps under the leaves. I worked on both grinders today to inspect and rotate the cutters so we can get more cutting done tomorrow.
> ...


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## 4x4American (Feb 13, 2013)

Youngbuck20 said:


> Good read indeed! Always seems like theirs one idiot to ruin your day! How much can you get per cord in your area?



Seasoned split cord can go anywhere from $110-230 or so in my area. It's hard to sell firewood though because everyone and their brother sells firewood round here.


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## 4x4American (Feb 13, 2013)

I got that wood I mentioned unloaded from my pickemup truck, I ended up hooking my little craftsman dump trailer to my fourwheeler and just making a few trips, almost got the wheeler stuck a few times, but rockin her back and forth, proper gear selection, and 4x4 got me out each time. I patted the trail down beforehand best I could on my snowmobile.


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## Gologit (Feb 13, 2013)

4x4American said:


> treetopguy2028 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad you enjoyed reading it! I didn't think anyone would want to read it because well after I typed it I was gonna re-read it for any errors and then I seen the size of it and said hell no I aint readin that!
> ...


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## bitzer (Feb 13, 2013)

Well I'm glad you picked the woods. I was going to throw my two cents in about that when you were thinking about which way to go, just didn't have time. You can do all of those other bull#### jobs any other time. Believe me, you would probably have always regretted it if you hadn't. Now you'll have stories to tell. 

$25-30 per thousand for a faller around here is pretty common. Thats with bucking. I've heard of up to forty, but thats just nuts to me. I do cut for a mill so the margins are a little tighter. I'm guessing your boss buys his own jobs?


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## 4x4American (Feb 15, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Well I'm glad you picked the woods. I was going to throw my two cents in about that when you were thinking about which way to go, just didn't have time. You can do all of those other bull#### jobs any other time. Believe me, you would probably have always regretted it if you hadn't. Now you'll have stories to tell.
> 
> $25-30 per thousand for a faller around here is pretty common. Thats with bucking. I've heard of up to forty, but thats just nuts to me. I do cut for a mill so the margins are a little tighter. I'm guessing your boss buys his own jobs?



Yea bossman buys standing timber. On some smaller jobs I believe he works out deals like we go and log it and then he gives the landowner a percent of the profit from the logs. I'm not 100% on the whole deal. We've got quite a few jobs lined up for right now. This weekend and next I'm back to working for the farm tapping trees and stuff and for the next few weeks after work I'm working there for like 3-4 hours in the sugarshack making syrup, I'm sure tomorrow I'll be glad to walk around the woods without all my gear and chainsaw and gas and all that fun stuff, just need a drill and a hammer and a bag of parts and stuff. 1200 trees to tap for lines and 250 trees we're doing buckets. I'm predicting it's not going to be a great year for syrup though. Hopefully not as bad as last year.


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## 4x4American (Feb 15, 2013)

Here's a big (well, big in our neck of the woods) lumber company from Owego picking up a load of sawlogs for their mills. I was told they have 4 mills there and are very hungry for wood. This job we're on now is sorta small trees
View attachment 279376


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## 4x4American (Feb 15, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Well I'm glad you picked the woods. I was going to throw my two cents in about that when you were thinking about which way to go, just didn't have time. You can do all of those other bull#### jobs any other time. Believe me, you would probably have always regretted it if you hadn't. Now you'll have stories to tell.
> 
> $25-30 per thousand for a faller around here is pretty common. Thats with bucking. I've heard of up to forty, but thats just nuts to me. I do cut for a mill so the margins are a little tighter. I'm guessing your boss buys his own jobs?



Oh, and yea right about now, even though the money isn't where I want it to be, I am glad I picked the woods too. After only a week of working with the logging crew, I've cut down proberly more trees than I ever have, I've learned a whole hell of a lot about logging in general and some good tips for working with chainsaws and tips to better my hand filing, I've learned alot about skidding logs, limbing, bucking, felling, etc. The bossman is a funny old man with loads of stories. He's told me alot of cool and funny stories about when he was cutting timber out in warshington. That guy can walk circles around me, I'm 21 and he's 60! ... I gotta wait til my muscles switch over from being mechanic muscles to logger muscles, cause bossman's son is coming up to florida to cut timber with us and bossman said you think I work hard now, oh boy you wait til my son gets up here, he works the way I used to when I was in my prime! his son is 40 some odd years old been a logger for a long damn time, logging in florida has been slow where he's at i reckon so he's coming up north.

Anyways,
Summary so far of what I think about it- it's hard work, hard work builds character. It is alot of fun I gotta say. The pay will be getting a bit better shortly. I don't see myself making a career out of it, but who knows, I may get sucked in. Bossman is a real good man, and a wealth of knowledge.


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## Deleted member 110241 (Feb 25, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Oh, and yea right about now, even though the money isn't where I want it to be, I am glad I picked the woods too. After only a week of working with the logging crew, I've cut down proberly more trees than I ever have, I've learned a whole hell of a lot about logging in general and some good tips for working with chainsaws and tips to better my hand filing, I've learned alot about skidding logs, limbing, bucking, felling, etc. The bossman is a funny old man with loads of stories. He's told me alot of cool and funny stories about when he was cutting timber out in warshington. That guy can walk circles around me, I'm 21 and he's 60! ... I gotta wait til my muscles switch over from being mechanic muscles to logger muscles, cause bossman's son is coming up to florida to cut timber with us and bossman said you think I work hard now, oh boy you wait til my son gets up here, he works the way I used to when I was in my prime! his son is 40 some odd years old been a logger for a long damn time, logging in florida has been slow where he's at i reckon so he's coming up north.
> 
> Anyways,
> Summary so far of what I think about it- it's hard work, hard work builds character. It is alot of fun I gotta say. The pay will be getting a bit better shortly. I don't see myself making a career out of it, but who knows, I may get sucked in. Bossman is a real good man, and a wealth of knowledge.



Hi all! My first post here, had to register after reading this thread!
I was really fed up with my job at the time as a mechanic on the railroads so I quit and started my own clearing/thinning business (with clearing saws) at the age of 23. I was going to do that for a year or so until something better came up, yeah right, now I'm getting prepared for another season, my 10th....:msp_rolleyes:
There's something about working in the woods that is really hard to explain, why would anyone go to work where it's always too cold, wet or hot? Then there's all sorts of nasty insects just waiting to fiest on your blood. Above that the wage is way too low so you're not doing it for the money right? So what is it?
I have no clue but I spend the winters working as a mechanic (saws, snow blowers, lawn mowers etc) and I know that as soon as the winter comes to end I will once again get my gear ready for another season in the woods, come rain or shine!


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## 4x4American (Feb 25, 2013)

Markus said:


> Hi all! My first post here, had to register after reading this thread!
> I was really fed up with my job at the time as a mechanic on the railroads so I quit and started my own clearing/thinning business (with clearing saws) at the age of 24. I was going to do that for a year or so until something better came up, yeah right, now I'm getting prepared for another season, my 10th....:msp_rolleyes:
> There's something about working in the woods that is really hard to explain, why would anyone go to work where it's always too cold, wet or hot? Then there's all sorts of nasty insects just waiting to fiest on your blood. Above that the wage is way too low so you're not doing it for the money right? So what is it?
> I have no clue but I spend the winters working as a mechanic (saws, snow blowers, lawn mowers etc) and I know that as soon as the winter comes to end I will once again get my gear ready for another season in the woods, come rain or shine!



First off welcome to AS! And I'm not sure why but I'm loving it and getting more sucked in day by night by day by night


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## imagineero (Mar 16, 2013)

4x4American said:


> First off welcome to AS! And I'm not sure why but I'm loving it and getting more sucked in day by night by day by night



So I gotta ask, now the thread has kind of run its course....

What would you tell someone to bring on their first day?

Shaun


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## 4x4American (Mar 16, 2013)

imagineero said:


> So I gotta ask, now the thread has kind of run its course....
> 
> What would you tell someone to bring on their first day?
> 
> Shaun



I'd tell them to read through this thread it's pretty well covered 





A short checklist of the essentials to have either on you or in your truck:
-water
-food
-spare clothes/boots n socks
-scattergun + ammo
-#### tickets
-skillet
-first aid kit
-gloves
-tent
-5 gal bucket
-hard hat
-earplugs
-eye pretection

Then the work stuff:
-chainsaw
-ax + scabbard or some way of attaching it to body
-wedges + wedge pouch + extra wedges
-scrench, small stihl screw stick, t27 torx bit for stihl saws
-saw gas + bar earl
-spare bar, chains, and parts for saws, or backup saw, or both
-files and handles + stump vise
-oils and fluids and tools for truck



That oughta be enough for someones first day I'd say


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## northmanlogging (Mar 16, 2013)

roll of tin foil could replace the skillet... wrap up what ya need cooked and park it on the exhaust or in the engine compartment, depending on required temp, of whatever equipment you happen to be running...

Or is the skillet for fighting off bears... (sorry fictional reference)


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## 4x4American (Mar 16, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> roll of tin foil could replace the skillet... wrap up what ya need cooked and park it on the exhaust or in the engine compartment, depending on required temp, of whatever equipment you happen to be running...
> 
> Or is the skillet for fighting off bears... (sorry fictional reference)



yea thatd work too eh...I included skillet cause what if ya shoot a skwerl or a rabbit or a deer or something, gotta cook it on something ya know. I keep a skillet in my truck for that reason.


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## 1270d (Mar 16, 2013)

northmanlogging;4217630
Or is the skillet for fighting off bears... (sorry fictional reference)[/QUOTE said:


> Is this a reference to last night in twisted river?


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## northmanlogging (Mar 17, 2013)

1270d said:


> Is this a reference to last night in twisted river?



If I get another dog its going to be named hero...


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