# Cutting conditions



## Burvol (Feb 5, 2009)

What is the worst stuff growing in your strip to cut timber in? 

1. Old growth Vine Maple (8-10+ on the stump LOL) 

2. Poison Oak (hear California has some epic stuff) 

3. Devils Club

4. Tan Oak/ Broadleaf Maple

5. Rock Patch from hell 

6. Buck Brush

7. Snags don't count


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## Zackman1801 (Feb 5, 2009)

Red pine. we had a job thinning it out in a plantation. it was badly planted with only a few feet between stems in almost a random assortment, no rows. the stuff would not come down even when it seemed it was all alone there was always a tree hanging onto it. aside from that maine has massive amounts of poison ivy and i am allergic so i can pick up small traces and be itching for months at a time.


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## Cedarkerf (Feb 5, 2009)

Devils club the gift that gives in multiple ways


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## hammerlogging (Feb 5, 2009)

grapevine (East Coast)


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## Gologit (Feb 5, 2009)

1. Poison oak...some years it's not too bad. Other years it's really out to get you.

2. Blackberry bushes...some times acres of them from old ranches and homesteads.

3. Manzanita...pokes you everywhere

4. Buck brush...snake heaven

5. I'm counting snags, anyway.

6. Pot plantations.


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## Locoweed (Feb 5, 2009)

Catclaw Acacia & Cholla


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## 371groundie (Feb 5, 2009)

im working near a cemetary and everything that people pladted in the cemetary has spread into the woods. if the plant ever produced berries the birds ate the berries and spread seed into the woods. the worst is this vine that has ahold of everything. ive had it pull dead limbs out of other trees onto me while im falling a tree its growing in. it was bad enough this fall when i could see it, but now its all hidden in the snow and i trip on it without seeing it. also have found some japanese barberry, OUCH!


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## Burvol (Feb 5, 2009)

Snags suck, I agree. I thik of snag removal as your life in a strip. It must be done when within a tree length of any cutting in my opinion. I cut a bad one that was wraped up in that damn vine today, below a road on a steep bank with cold decks right above and beside me as well. It was a 30" White Fir that was tall and not even worth pulp. I laid it out over a lay of real big wood as soon as I could. I love watching them break up. (easier for the logger LOL). As far as intrusive vegetative henderances, I would say Vine Maple is the stuff I hate the most. Some of it around here gets really bad, I'm sure Bookerdog could vouch for me in our area. I got posion oak in my eye last year cutting some fresh little sprouts from around a tree that were full of death juice.


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## Cedarkerf (Feb 5, 2009)

Ill vouch for the vine maple tangle chatter your teeth bite or throw your chain while whipping and flinging about trying to give ya a shot in the mouth would that about sum it up mr Burvol


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## Burvol (Feb 5, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Ill vouch for the vine maple tangle chatter your teeth bite or throw your chain while whipping and flinging about trying to give ya a shot in the mouth would that about sum it up mr Burvol



Exactly...Full comp all the way. You can control that crap better with a slower cut with some hot square comp. It is chain throwing stuff, did it twice today. Rhodadendrens are right up there with it. I forgot Rhodies on the list.


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## wilbilt (Feb 6, 2009)

Gologit said:


> 6. Pot plantations.



No kidding, that's got to be bad. Not enough to worry about the natural hazards, but have to think about snipers, too.

Didn't I hear some dope farmer was shooting at dozer operators during the fires last year?


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## KD57 (Feb 6, 2009)

Poison oak, and cactus, w/ catclaw being the worst. You can't even look at it w/o it flinging needles in you.


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## Ed*L (Feb 6, 2009)

Poison Ivy. It's even a pita when it's not growing on a tree. It will spread across the ground, look real good before you reach down to pick up your saw or grab a piece of firewood.

Ed


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## hutch3912 (Feb 6, 2009)

371groundie said:


> im working near a cemetary and everything that people pladted in the cemetary has spread into the woods. if the plant ever produced berries the birds ate the berries and spread seed into the woods. the worst is this vine that has ahold of everything. ive had it pull dead limbs out of other trees onto me while im falling a tree its growing in. it was bad enough this fall when i could see it, but now its all hidden in the snow and i trip on it without seeing it. also have found some japanese barberry, OUCH!



Agreed those vines are a pain. I just drop everything that is attached and call it close enough, bad management but its invasive so it doesn't bother me that much. Once its on the ground and you buck out the first twitch its not so bad. I would also put my two cents towards muddy or icy hills, those are just plain dangerous.


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 6, 2009)

30 inches off white hell ( snow )


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## forestryworks (Feb 6, 2009)

1. poison ivy
2. greenbriar
3. blackberry vine
4. barbed wire in the trees


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## bookerdog (Feb 6, 2009)

I know its not a big deal but, I hate when scotch bloom. When you walk over it and it comes right back between the legs.


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## stihlloggin (Feb 6, 2009)

YELLOW JACKETS AND BLACK HORNETS!!! the worst i've ever seen last summer an underground/ rotten log nest every 50-100 sg. feet. I think i went through close to 50-60 cans of bee spray in a month and a half.


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## scottn (Feb 6, 2009)

I do not have problems with any of the seven problems originally posted, but the 220 inches of snow and counting is making me work pretty hard.


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## forestryworks (Feb 6, 2009)

scottn said:


> I do not have problems with any of the seven problems originally posted, but the 220 inches of snow and counting is making me work pretty hard.



:jawdrop:


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## stihlloggin (Feb 6, 2009)

hopefully you mean 22" of snow


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## forestryworks (Feb 6, 2009)

stihlloggin said:


> hopefully you mean 22" of snow



yes, hopefully


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## stihlloggin (Feb 6, 2009)

I've cut in 40"-48" of snow on steep ground and that was about all i could handle. Dont have to worry about gettin fat!


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## RPM (Feb 7, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Devils club the gift that gives in multiple ways



+1....devils club, hornets and yellow jackets, western yew, big punky hollow shelled hemlock


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## Burvol (Feb 7, 2009)

Son of a #####..... I felt great this week. I cut 9 big hammer white fir snags yesterday that will filly your shorts if something goes wrong, whips, massive vinemaple, and a bunch of marginal wood to open up my strip to the juice wood. I got the whole thing opened up and cut 5 of those beauties in there and was so happy for Monday. A ton of good wood already to lay into my strip I spent a day and half opening up for this big tall stuff to lay in. Side rod comes to me at quiting time, "stop, stop! The price took a crap about three hours ago." 

There goes my job for a while anyway. I should have kept quiet. I was all greatful and happy, trying to pull ahead from a bad year. The way it goes I guess. 

Cross my finger that this will only be for a week or two like they told me. It seems like the whole world economy is falling apart.


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## forestryworks (Feb 7, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Son of a #####..... I felt great this week. I cut 9 big hammer white fir snags yesterday that will filly your shorts if something goes wrong, whips, massive vinemaple, and a bunch of marginal wood to open up my strip to the juice wood. I got the whole thing opened up and cut 5 of those beauties in there and was so happy for Monday. A ton of good wood already to lay into my strip I spent a day and half opening up for this big tall stuff to lay in. Side rod comes to me at quiting time, "stop, stop! The price took a crap about three hours ago."
> 
> There goes my job for a while anyway. I should have kept quiet. I was all greatful and happy, trying to pull ahead from a bad year. The way it goes I guess.
> 
> Cross my finger that this will only be for a week or two like they told me. It seems like the whole world economy is falling apart.



i wouldn't wish one or two weeks of no work on anyone. hope you do well and hang in there.

i'm waiting for another dust bowl down here.


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## Burvol (Feb 7, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> i wouldn't wish one or two weeks of no work on anyone. hope you do well and hang in there.
> 
> i'm waiting for another dust bowl down here.



Last year it was months. I worked some side jobs for a friend that has a tree service, and used all my savings to get by. I was hoping that this year was going to be good. I'm not surprised though, we knew the foriegn log market was going to crash soon. We'll just wait and see for how long, and what other countries are involved. But when things are better there, they want nothing more than West Coast Doug Fir.


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## slowp (Feb 7, 2009)

Not meaning to steal the thread, but heard from somebody who heard from a local knowledgable source that domestic lumber prices are going up slightly due to the supply having shrunk from mills closing. 

My theory is that lumber prices will escalate madly in April. That might be when my house construction starts. 

If I were in charge, I'd hire unemployed loggers and start paying them to dump and dispose of all the snags about to fall on the tourists on the forest roads, and also fix roads and trails in the woods. That would be "stimulous" money put to good use.


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## Burvol (Feb 7, 2009)

slowp said:


> Not meaning to steal the thread, but heard from somebody who heard from a local knowledgable source that domestic lumber prices are going up slightly due to the supply having shrunk from mills closing.
> 
> My theory is that lumber prices will escalate madly in April. That might be when my house construction starts.
> 
> If I were in charge, I'd hire unemployed loggers and start paying them to dump and dispose of all the snags about to fall on the tourists on the forest roads, and also fix roads and trails in the woods. That would be "stimulous" money put to good use.



Yay, Patty for Govenor! I don't know what the heck is going on, everyone I know is being tight lipped...for whatever reason. Sometimes brokers and buyers call bluffs on prices and demand.


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## Bushler (Feb 7, 2009)

Bummer Jesse. Well, you had a good roll for most of the winter. Price here for domestic logs is an insult, but its better than nothing.

I 'think' the chip market may be rebounding a little bit. The Nor OR loggers realy flooded the market last year with all that salvage timber, but I saw a couple chip trucks moving product last week.

Obama and his liberal friends may be running low on computer paper. The new stim. bill was so lengthy it would take a couple hundred acres of pulp to print......


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## Gologit (Feb 7, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Yay, Patty for Govenor! I don't know what the heck is going on, everyone I know is being tight lipped...for whatever reason. Sometimes brokers and buyers call bluffs on prices and demand.



Yup...when Patty gets things straightened out up there send her down here.

The market is still poor in this area, too. We're pecking away at some of the burn salvage left from last year's fires but that's all thats going on. The word we get is that there won't be anything but burn salvage and bug kill this season and probably not much of that.

Some of the older guys, the ones with good reps and solid connections, are making a meager living but it's tight.

Two of the best Catskinners I've seen are stocking shelves at WalMart and they're glad to have the work.

Jeeeez...that was a gloomy post. I'll try to think of something more cheerful.


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## slowp (Feb 7, 2009)

The rumor here was that the Canadian supply has dried up, so the local mill is going full bore. BUT, the local mill quit taking logs from some of the gyppos.
The mill has to make up for orders that can't be filled due to the Morton mill roof collapse. The local one has a smaller log decking area so they tend to fill up quickly. 

My prediction stays, a sharp increase in March or April because my people tend to buy high, sell low and it is time to get a building permit and go for it. 

I have a few more trees to cut with the Barbie Saw prior to construction.


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## 385xp9106 (Feb 7, 2009)

dpends on what your doing,around here doing tree work posion oak is the worse.every year you get platerd..in the woods i hardly ever see it..but the pricker bryers stick ya alot..


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## 385xp9106 (Feb 7, 2009)

*22 inches of snow*

ya the snow deffinatly sucks right now.walking in it and kickin around the stump.i hate it when you walk over were youve limbed an dont notice it.and sink


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## Gologit (Feb 7, 2009)

slowp said:


> The rumor here was that the Canadian supply has dried up, so the local mill is going full bore. BUT, the local mill quit taking logs from some of the gyppos.
> The mill has to make up for orders that can't be filled due to the Morton mill roof collapse. The local one has a smaller log decking area so they tend to fill up quickly.
> 
> My prediction stays, a sharp increase in March or April because my people tend to buy high, sell low and it is time to get a building permit and go for it.
> ...



LOL...Order your lumber from us...we'll make you a heck of deal. How many rail cars do you need? We have lumber that's been in inventory so long it has grass growing on it.


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## 385XP (Feb 7, 2009)

Mutiflorelrose really sucks its like working in barb wire all day . It rips your closes right off . Ive cut some jobs that you would have to clear around every tree with the cat. Some farmers thought it made a good natural fence but when it took over the whole timber it made a real mess. Deep snow posion ive and river bluffs are a pain too. The logging business around here is in pretty rough shape the only thing the mills want is real good walnut and white oak.


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## Oddvaark (Feb 7, 2009)

I did a search for "Upper Peninsula snow report" and found something interesting called the, Keweenaw Snow Report, where they are up to 233.7 " so far this winter . I had some friends from Tomahawk Wi. that logged the U.P,(in Michigan) and their stories of snow-logging were absolutely incredible. They would go in with total living accomodations and plan on being snowbound for up to a month at a time .


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## forestryworks (Feb 7, 2009)

slowp said:


> Not meaning to steal the thread, but heard from somebody who heard from a local knowledgable source that domestic lumber prices are going up slightly due to the supply having shrunk from mills closing.
> 
> My theory is that lumber prices will escalate madly in April. That might be when my house construction starts.
> 
> If I were in charge, I'd hire unemployed loggers and start paying them to dump and dispose of all the snags about to fall on the tourists on the forest roads, and also fix roads and trails in the woods. That would be "stimulous" money put to good use.



Smart thinking. Simple. If there were such a plan, I'd be all over tryin' to get work on that.



Burvol said:


> Yay, Patty for Govenor! .



I say Vote Patty for USFS Chief!


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## Dok (Feb 7, 2009)

Another vote for Patty! I keep waiting for the bottom but I don't see it yet. A couple years ago when we bought our house the market seemed surreal and everyone was able to get a loan. Seemed so wrong, especially compared to the hoops we had to jump through when we bought our first house. I had no idea it would lead to all this! 

Back on topic, I hate poison oak. Especially when you hit it with the chain and it sprays everywhere. I don't usually get it, but when wifey gets it from my clothes it's the doghouse for me.

Dok


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## scottn (Feb 7, 2009)

stihlloggin said:


> hopefully you mean 22" of snow



Yes, I do mean 220 inches... I was just ball parking the number, OddVaark did the research (233 inches officially). I often think of taking photos, as this much snow simply looks other worldly... the plowed roadside banks are sometimes above the roof of my truck... but, the day's work leaves little extra time or energy for playing with cameras. Each day, regardless if much or little progress is made, I am thankful to the Lord Jesus for his provision.


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## stihlloggin (Feb 8, 2009)

cant say i've ever cut timber in 220" of snow. Seems production would be down a little?


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## RPM (Feb 8, 2009)

stihlloggin said:


> cant say i've ever cut timber in 220" of snow. Seems production would be down a little?



...and one heck of a high stump


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## slowp (Feb 8, 2009)

RPM said:


> ...and one heck of a high stump



Time for stage logging perhaps?


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## RPM (Feb 8, 2009)

slowp said:


> Time for stage logging perhaps?



My Dad use to tell of a couple of winters back inthe 70's around Revelstoke where they would shut down the logging by the beginning of January because the snow was to deep to log. They would stop at 20' of snow pack (not total snow fall) because the stumps were toooooo high. Also they couldn't plow the roads fast enough and by the time they had to pull out the D-9 to cross plow the roads it was time to call it quits for the winter.

..... And they did come back in the summer and log the high stumps. I've got him looking for pictures.


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## FIRESMOKE (Feb 9, 2009)

The worst thing I have cut in is Suburbia! I did a job near Villanova University a few years ago. We were clearing a lot for a new house that had huge red and white oaks and some of the most beutifull ash I,ve ever seen. The landscape project manager was watching us every day to make sure we did not hit any save tree's or we did'nt drive equipment to close to save tree's so we would,nt damage the root system. He actually put up orange safety fence around a bunch of tree's because he thought we were not being carefull enough. All this while the tree hugging neighbors were taking pictures and videotaping our every move. What a pain.


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## Cedarkerf (Feb 9, 2009)

Stinging nettles are always a joy forgot about those for some reason but definitely on my list


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## Gologit (Feb 9, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Stinging nettles are always a joy forgot about those for some reason but definitely on my list



Just slash 'em with your new 460.


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## Cedarkerf (Feb 9, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Just slash 'em with your new 460.


They always seem to find a way to fall back on ya maybe the 41" bar would work the 460s a year old now need to go pick up some more accessories:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Tree Sling'r (Feb 9, 2009)

People who poop in other peoples strips.


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## Humptulips (Feb 10, 2009)

Hope this isn't too off topic but from a hooktenders perspective the worst is trying to hang in or string through a strip of precommercial thinning especially when it gets to that stage where it's still chin deep but too rotten to support you.
Another is stringing through blowdown so that the lines will clear up. Leaners make it tough.
Packing rigging uphill in 3 feet of snow ain't fun either.


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## slowp (Feb 10, 2009)

Humptulips said:


> Hope this isn't too off topic but from a hooktenders perspective the worst is trying to hang in or string through a strip of precommercial thinning especially when it gets to that stage where it's still chin deep but too rotten to support you.
> Another is stringing through blowdown so that the lines will clear up. Leaners make it tough.
> Packing rigging uphill in 3 feet of snow ain't fun either.



Yes! I have to follow the hooktender through that stuff. I've helped pack some gear and there's not much to stop the momentum of a face plant. I pity the guys packing line UP the hill for the first setting of downhill yarding. 
There's sometimes puking involved.:jawdrop:

Coming soon, a thinning unit that is in a rootrot area that has that stage of rotten blowdown in it. You step on the blowdown, it might hold you but it might not.


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## Humptulips (Feb 10, 2009)

slowp said:


> Yes! I have to follow the hooktender through that stuff. I've helped pack some gear and there's not much to stop the momentum of a face plant. I pity the guys packing line UP the hill for the first setting of downhill yarding.
> There's sometimes puking involved.:jawdrop:
> 
> Coming soon, a thinning unit that is in a rootrot area that has that stage of rotten blowdown in it. You step on the blowdown, it might hold you but it might not.



Question What is the point if it has root rot in the stand? Only way to deal with that is to clearcut and replant with something resistant. You thin and all you will get is more dead trees and blow down. Eventually it will get it all.


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## forestryworks (Feb 10, 2009)

Humptulips said:


> Question What is the point if it has root rot in the stand? Only way to deal with that is to clearcut and replant with something resistant. You thin and all you will get is more dead trees and blow down. Eventually it will get it all.



that sounds like the lodgepole pine/pine beetle thing... minus the root rot


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## slowp (Feb 10, 2009)

Humptulips said:


> Question What is the point if it has root rot in the stand? Only way to deal with that is to clearcut and replant with something resistant. You thin and all you will get is more dead trees and blow down. Eventually it will get it all.



Nope. It makes no sense. But that's what gets decided by the specialists.


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## Gologit (Feb 10, 2009)

Tree Sling'r said:


> People who poop in other peoples strips.



Well Jeeeeeze, you don't expect us to poop in our own, do you? Besides, I think it's the tree markers that do that.


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## Burvol (Feb 10, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Well Jeeeeeze, you don't expect us to poop in our own, do you? Besides, I think it's the tree markers that do that.



+1 I have often wondered that myself.


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## Gologit (Feb 10, 2009)

Burvol said:


> +1 I have often wondered that myself.



As soon as a certain government employee reads this we're probably both in trouble.


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## slowp (Feb 11, 2009)

Tree marker poop doesn't stink. 

Since we don't arrive to the woods until noon, that usually isn't a problem.
I think everybody should follow the rules of a hotshot crew. Don't poop in the unit. Go outside of the boundary. And don't go in the road where the yarder will be moving to. Icky. Yucky.


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## Bushler (Feb 11, 2009)

About the root rot. Is that POC? I planted 2K geneticaly altered POC 2-0's last winter, and about 20% of them died. Turned red and croaked.

Anyone had experiecne with the disease resistant POC?


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## Burvol (Feb 11, 2009)

Bushler said:


> About the root rot. Is that POC? I planted 2K geneticaly altered POC 2-0's last winter, and about 20% of them died. Turned red and croaked.
> 
> Anyone had experiecne with the disease resistant POC?



Is that Cedar you have there Mr. Bushler?


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## Humptulips (Feb 11, 2009)

I was thinking the laminated root rot. A couple of varieties that affect different species. Depending on which kind you have tells you what to plant. Mostly is bad in fir and hemlock and the ground is infected as long as there is any fir or hemlock roots in the ground. Takes generations to eliminate. The cure is to plant alder, cedar, spruce. I think I remember there is a variety that infects cedar but never seen that as a problem.


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## rdbrumfield (Feb 12, 2009)

hello humptulips, montesano here.


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## Bushler (Feb 12, 2009)

Phytophthora lateralis is the POC root rot. I got a mailing from OSU yesterday about it. They predict %50 mortality on the 'resistant' POC seedlings. I'm within that.

Of all the species I've planted during the last 20 years I see the best results from the doug fir.


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## chainsawboy1996 (Feb 13, 2009)

Gologit said:


> 1. Poison oak...some years it's not too bad. Other years it's really out to get you.
> 
> 2. Blackberry bushes...some times acres of them from old ranches and homesteads.
> 
> ...



:agree2: i have the exact same probs except # are sometimes mine :monkey:


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## chainsawboy1996 (Feb 13, 2009)

wilbilt said:


> No kidding, that's got to be bad. Not enough to worry about the natural hazards, but have to think about snipers, too.
> 
> Didn't I hear some dope farmer was shooting at dozer operators during the fires last year?


whta you mean soda complex fire. see the reaon i know about that is because i know the guy that did it (cough(miguel) cough) and i was workin on the fire on my property. in fact my dad reported all the fires in my complex. i am 12 but i helped more than fire boss read a map but got detained by some line workers on my road. "sorry just still pissed at how long it took them to put out the fire" oh wilbilt if youre familiar with the chopper that went down the crew that died stole stuff from my house.


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