# Imported from Germany?



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 21, 2009)

I just picked up a few spruce 2x4s from Lowes and it said, "Imported from Germany" on the sticker. 

You fellas better pick up the pace a bit. 

Ian


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## goatchin (Feb 21, 2009)

figures....still cant figure out why the timber industry and economy is like it is


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## Gologit (Feb 21, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I just picked up a few spruce 2x4s from Lowes and it said, "Imported from Germany" on the sticker.
> 
> You fellas better pick up the pace a bit.
> 
> Ian




I didn't know Germany was sending us lumber. Is it some special size or grade that you absolutely had to have and couldn't find anywhere else?

If not, then do your adopted PNW brethren a big favor and take that stuff back.

German saws? Yes. German lumber? Hell no!


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## forestryworks (Feb 21, 2009)

Gologit said:


> I didn't know Germany was sending us lumber. Is it some special size or grade that you absolutely had to have and couldn't find anywhere else?
> 
> If not, then do your adopted PNW brethren a big favor and take that stuff back.
> 
> German saws? Yes. German lumber? Hell no!



American Lumber!


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## John Ellison (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't know what that means. After all the big hurricanes a couple of years ago there were some 1x6 (german) in the local lumber yard. I asked and they said that was all they could get at the time because of a shortage.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 21, 2009)

Gologit said:


> I didn't know Germany was sending us lumber. Is it some special size or grade that you absolutely had to have and couldn't find anywhere else?
> 
> If not, then do your adopted PNW brethren a big favor and take that stuff back.
> 
> German saws? Yes. German lumber? Hell no!



Nope, just regular ol $1.99 studs. Already got it cut up and firewood stacked on it. Sorry Bob.

Ian


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 21, 2009)

Oooh, that's gonna come back to bite ya.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 21, 2009)

I did go to Lowes.com and give them my opinion on the subject, am I forgiven? 

Ian


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## Gologit (Feb 21, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I did go to Lowes.com and give them my opinion on the subject, am I forgiven?
> 
> Ian



I guess. As long as you promise never to do that again. I have to go into town tomorrow. Think I'll stop by Lowes and look at lumber labels.

Just out of curiosity, what did Lowes have to say?


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## tomtrees58 (Feb 21, 2009)

MMFaller39 said:


> Oooh, that's gonna come back to bite ya.


 he he tom trees


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## slowp (Feb 21, 2009)

Spruce sucks. You should buy Doug-fir. Or Western Hemlock because that is what is made here. The local mill has the Home Depot contract so go there next time. Tell Lowes that importing lumber is one way pests get into the country. Bad Lowes, bad bad Lowes.


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## forestryworks (Feb 21, 2009)

slowp said:


> spruce sucks. You should buy doug-fir. Or western hemlock because that is what is made here. The local mill has the home depot contract so go there next time. *tell lowes that importing lumber is one way pests get into the country. Bad lowes, bad bad lowes.*



+ 1


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## Jtheo (Feb 21, 2009)

*German Lumber*

I have seen bundles of 2x4 studs in Home Depot more than once that were stamped Germany. 
I didn't buy any, but it struck me as odd. I live in Alabama, and this place has Southern yellow pine everywhere. My house is framed with it, studs and all.


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## woodfarmer (Feb 21, 2009)

Gologit said:


> I didn't know Germany was sending us lumber. Is it some special size or grade that you absolutely had to have and couldn't find anywhere else?
> 
> If not, then do your adopted PNW brethren a big favor and take that stuff back.
> 
> German saws? Yes. German lumber? Hell no!


maybe if you wern't buying german saws, homelite would still make a decent saw, pioneer here in canada wouldn't have been bought out or merged with poulan blah blah blah, oh yeah forgot the mighty mcculloch, had two 610 pro macs could hardly wear them out


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## redprospector (Feb 21, 2009)

It really sux. We're importing lumber, all while our mill's are shutting down for lack of demand.
It's the ultimate example of the trickle down theory.
The government, and retailer's pizz on the mill's, and it trickles down on not just logger's but everyone in a timber town.

Andy


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 21, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Just out of curiosity, what did Lowes have to say?



I went to the website and submitted it online. They'll probably just sh!tcan it.

Ian


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## slowp (Feb 22, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I went to the website and submitted it online. They'll probably just sh!tcan it.
> 
> Ian



I forgive you. But Doug-fir is pretty much grown only here. I have heard they can grow it in Germany. Stick with it, and you should be OK. Shouldn't you be using something like cedar to stack your wood on? Straight grained?
Penance....:greenchainsaw:


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## Gologit (Feb 22, 2009)

slowp said:


> I forgive you. But Doug-fir is pretty much grown only here. I have heard they can grow it in Germany. Stick with it, and you should be OK. Shouldn't you be using something like cedar to stack your wood on? Straight grained?
> Penance....:greenchainsaw:



Yup..Incense cedar, pure grain, #1 select, cabinet quality, paper wrapped units...the really expensive stuff.

Ian, how many truckloads do you want us to send? Or would rail cars be more convenient?

Penance...and good for our economy.


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## trimmmed (Feb 22, 2009)

Hell, if you figure what the retail is and what Lowes is buying them at, then how cheap US dollars are against the euro, the Krauts have to be losing their shirts through subsidizing these 2x4's. Certainly not a sustainable endeavor, and they are not stupid, so I wonder WHY??? the hell this is, in the first place.

I think the stuff makes good firewood and if you don't believe that, just head on down to lowes and light up a pallet or two before you buy!


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## oldchuck (Feb 22, 2009)

slowp said:


> Spruce sucks. You should buy Doug-fir. Or Western Hemlock because that is what is made here. The local mill has the Home Depot contract so go there next time. Tell Lowes that importing lumber is one way pests get into the country. Bad Lowes, bad bad Lowes.



Spruce does NOT suck! It is an excellent framing wood and I have lots of it growing on my land which, last time I looked, was still in the USA. Makes a nice Christmas tree too.


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## Gologit (Feb 22, 2009)

trimmmed said:


> Hell, if you figure what the retail is and what Lowes is buying them at, then how cheap US dollars are against the euro, the Krauts have to be losing their shirts through subsidizing these 2x4's. Certainly not a sustainable endeavor, and they are not stupid, so I wonder WHY??? the hell this is, in the first place.
> 
> I think the stuff makes good firewood and if you don't believe that, just head on down to lowes and light up a pallet or two before you buy!



Yup. Thanks, Ian. While I'm splitting one pack of Ramen between six of us tonight and stuffing cardboard into my children's shoes I'll spare a thought for you and your German 2/4s.

Wait a minute, I forgot about the dog. Guess I better divide that pack of Ramen seven ways.


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 22, 2009)

slowp said:


> Spruce sucks. You should buy Doug-fir. Or Western Hemlock because that is what is made here. The local mill has the Home Depot contract so go there next time. Tell Lowes that importing lumber is one way pests get into the country. Bad Lowes, bad bad Lowes.



Yeah, that's how we got the Emerald Ash borer, it hasn't hit my area _yet_ but by the time it does there won't be any ash for it to kill. All the logging companies around here are cuttin it as fast as they can, that's usually what I see on the back of a log truck now.


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## Freakingstang (Feb 22, 2009)

Gologit said:


> I didn't know Germany was sending us lumber. Is it some special size or grade that you absolutely had to have and couldn't find anywhere else?
> 
> If not, then do your adopted PNW brethren a big favor and take that stuff back.
> 
> German saws? Yes. German lumber? Hell no!



Dude, you don't know how hard it is to find two x fours worth a crap on the east coast. It is all kiln dried pine that isn't straight and splits like he!! when you nail ro screw it.

That was the best part about working in San Diego....Real 2x4 doug fir. Our 2x4's measure 1 1/2x 2 1/2. your guy's measure 2x4!!!


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## Gologit (Feb 22, 2009)

Freakingstang said:


> Dude, you don't know how hard it is to find two x fours worth a crap on the east coast. It is all kiln dried pine that isn't straight and splits like he!! when you nail ro screw it.
> 
> That was the best part about working in San Diego....Real 2x4 doug fir. Our 2x4's measure 1 1/2x 2 1/2. your guy's measure 2x4!!!



LOL...I'll PM you our sales department address..right now you can buy all the good DF and white fir studs you want...real cheap. You could buy a whole train load of it and it wouldn't dent the inventory in most of our mills.

I'm no expert on economics but I can't figure how Germany can send lumber clear over here and sell it for enough to make a profit.


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## Freakingstang (Feb 22, 2009)

Gologit said:


> LOL...I'll PM you our sales department address..right now you can buy all the good DF and white fir studs you want...real cheap. You could buy a whole train load of it and it wouldn't dent the inventory in most of our mills.
> 
> I'm no expert on economics but I can't figure how Germany can send lumber clear over here and sell it for enough to make a profit.



I agree with you on the economics...don't understand that one bit. The last ones I bought were from maine, and I'm closer to the midwest than the east coast. Problem is home depot and lowes. We don't have many ma and pap lumber yards anymore. I try to get the local amish lumber when I need a bunch. but for small house projects when you only need 2 or 3....


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## Gologit (Feb 22, 2009)

Freakingstang said:


> I agree with you on the economics...don't understand that one bit. The last ones I bought were from maine, and I'm closer to the midwest than the east coast. Problem is home depot and lowes. We don't have many ma and pap lumber yards anymore. I try to get the local amish lumber when I need a bunch. but for small house projects when you only need 2 or 3....



Same thing out here. There are still a few independent lumber yards around but they're struggling. They're able to be competitive on lumber prices because they're close to the mills and transportation costs are relatively low. They can't compete on tools and accessories though. If Joe Homeowner needs a couple of 2x4s and a bunch of other stuff as well he usually heads to the big box store.


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## Burvol (Feb 22, 2009)

oldchuck said:


> Spruce does NOT suck! It is an excellent framing wood and I have lots of it growing on my land which, last time I looked, was still in the USA. Makes a nice Christmas tree too.



We just have higher standards due to the superiority of the West Coast's softwoods, largely Doug Fir, our claim to fame out West. I've been told by old timers out here that White Fir was used to lay big wood on until the 70's around here.


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## Burvol (Feb 22, 2009)

Oooh, I forgot REDWOOD! Sorry Bob. Is that still legal to cut? LOL :greenchainsaw:


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## Gologit (Feb 22, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Oooh, I forgot REDWOOD! Sorry Bob. Is that still legal to cut? LOL :greenchainsaw:



SSSSHHHHHH...not so loud.


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## oldchuck (Feb 22, 2009)

Burvol said:


> We just have higher standards due to the superiority of the West Coast's softwoods, largely Doug Fir, our claim to fame out West. I've been told by old timers out here that White Fir was used to lay big wood on until the 70's around here.



Without a doubt, Douglas Fir is peachy wood and the NW has superior softwoods in general. You can actually get it around here but it's pretty pricey.


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## modn (Feb 22, 2009)

When I was buying lumber when I was on the retail side, the Euro lumber was bar none the best quality I've ever seen. All dimensional came in looking like a finish grade with almost no knots and 0% wayne. When contractors will pay more for a certain product and ask for Euro lumber by name, then you better follow the flock or be left behind. Around here I couldn't get any Doug Fir (most of the time) to be consistant. The strength was great, but some would be up to 5/8" off in dimension from the same unit. I'm glad I'm out of that rat race, but from what I hear the quality has stabilized and the Euro lumber isn't near the quality of what it was (good for all of us). But the Lowes "Top Choice" lumber has always been Euro for a long time. I love fir and have sold millions of feet of vertical grain beaded fir, it's just such a premium here that the SPF takes most of the sale due to affordability. It is rare in Northern New York for a lumber yard to stock Doug Fir or even Hem Fir. I wish the PNW was a lot closer!!


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## FIRESMOKE (Feb 23, 2009)

I work for an equal opportunity lumber yard, we sell spf lumber (spruce) as well as hem-fir. We can get dug fir as a speacial order. The only yellow pine we sell is plywood and treated lumber. We also have poplar, oak, cherry, maple, and white pine (Idaho and eastern).:yoyo:


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## trimmmed (Feb 23, 2009)

I have to say my experience is different regarding lumber yards and doug fir. (even home depot) Here the overwhelming majority of the lumber is doug fir with all the pressure treated being southern yellow pine as well as any trusswork. If anything the engineered products hurt DF sales, joists and beams and truss roofs are cheaper systems and don't use it. We call SPF "spruce pretending to be fir", it's really crap. And no matter how straight and dry it appears when you buy it, it can move way farther than doug does and I don't think it's as strong, judging by cutting and nailing it. I also think a kiln dried stud is a disadvantage unless you can guarantee it's dryness forever, which is not possible.


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## Taxmantoo (Feb 23, 2009)

oldchuck said:


> Spruce does NOT suck! It is an excellent framing wood and I have lots of it growing on my land which, last time I looked, was still in the USA. Makes a nice Christmas tree too.



When aircraft were framed in wood, it was mainly spruce, for the strength to weight ratio. Hughes' "Spruce Goose" was named that for a reason. Radio control hobbyists still use balsa, with 'hard spruce' in the strength critical areas like bulkheads and wing spars, not sure what species of spruce it comes from.


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## Maldeney (Feb 23, 2009)

Gologit said:


> LOL...I'll PM you our sales department address..right now you can buy all the good DF and white fir studs you want...real cheap. You could buy a whole train load of it and it wouldn't dent the inventory in most of our mills.
> 
> I'm no expert on economics but I can't figure how Germany can send lumber clear over here and sell it for enough to make a profit.




:agree2: It is the same thing in the steel industry with China dumping their steel on our shores eating up the demand in this country... Oh wait that was before the.....(you know) hit the fan everywhere else. How can it be possible to ship from that distance and make money.. Our illustrious government allows them to continue to get away with "un"fair trade. It is not a problem that began yesterday it has been brewing for alot of years with no end in sight! You see it in everything that we buy "made In... everywhere but here!" :angry2: Okay I better stop ranting!:deadhorse:


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## smokechase II (Feb 23, 2009)

*Spruce isn't what it used to be*

*"When aircraft were framed in wood, it was mainly spruce, for the strength to weight ratio. Hughes' "Spruce Goose" was named that for a reason."*

===============

The sprooce guuse:

"Due to wartime restrictions on the availability of metals, *the H-4 was built almost entirely of laminated birch*, not spruce as its nickname suggests."

============

And I'll bet dollars to marks it wasn't birch imported from Germany at Lowes or H Depot.

Anybody who knows their woods knows Howard Hughes hated the nickname because it wasn't from spruce and it wasn't a goose.

============

Back to the original thread.


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## smokechase II (Feb 23, 2009)

*Doug Fir*

Doug Fir

Period


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## ak4195 (Feb 23, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Yup. Thanks, Ian. While I'm splitting one pack of Ramen between six of us tonight and stuffing cardboard into my children's shoes I'll spare a thought for you and your German 2/4s.
> 
> Wait a minute, I forgot about the dog. Guess I better divide that pack of Ramen seven ways.




LOL!!,but all joking aside,thats how our system works,"if you can find a cheaper source...." doesnt mean theyre making $'s err euro's,makes you wonder bout all the siberian forests.What you didnt know siberia had/has HUGE forests?
So the next step is to think,how could american forests become/stay competive.Not a pretty picture,since the top rarely likes to absorbe "shock & awe".
ak4195


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## PB (Feb 24, 2009)

Germany probably cut down all 10 acres of trees they have for the lumber order. Don't worry, the Germans can't have many more trees.


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## slowp (Feb 24, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Germany probably cut down all 10 acres of trees they have for the lumber order. Don't worry, the Germans can't have many more trees.



But they do. Prior to the 9/11 attack, German forestry students came over here and worked with us in the woods. Klaus, Ludwig, Wolker...and others.
Little did we know! Actually, they were in Forestry hoping to get a job in the woods there. Reality was that you had to pretty much be born into it or have some pull with somebody. I don't think any of them got jobs in the woods. They wanted to stay here. They were a lot of fun. We all started using terms lik Boolsh#t, and Let's go Bar Jumping. We had one of them so drunk he was yelling, I vant to sing Soldier Boy! at Kareoke night. Soldier boy wasn't on the program so he whined it out with no music. Ach, so much fun they were.


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## smokechase II (Feb 24, 2009)

*Coals to Newcastle - German Spruce to American Lowes*

*"Germany probably cut down all 10 acres of trees they have for the lumber order. Don't worry, the Germans can't have many more trees."*

==============

The Motherland has plenty of trees.

They are intensely managed.
A forester there might be 'assigned' to 20 to 40 hectares and work there as a career. In some situations they know when certain trees will be cut many years out.

They can be and usually are somewhat park-like with all the 'limb wood' picked up for firewood.

--------------

But I didn't think they would be exporting to the US with all our Southern Forests.

Also; they must have to plan this out, (Germans are capable of that - relax), and cut to standard dimensions vs. metric.

Guess the housing market is off in Europa too.


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## PB (Feb 24, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Germany probably cut down all 10 acres of trees they have for the lumber order. Don't worry, the Germans can't have many more trees.



This was meant to be a joke. I know Germany has trees. I have friends working on their PhD's in forestry over there.


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## smokechase II (Feb 24, 2009)

*I get it*

*"Germany probably cut down all 10 acres of trees they have for the lumber order. Don't worry, the Germans can't have many more trees. 

This was meant to be a joke. I know Germany has trees. I have friends working on their PhD's in forestry over there."*


==========

You would have said four hectares if you had been serious.

They still don't have forests that would compare with managed southern pine stands and their labor is as high or higher than ours.
I don't get it on that end either.


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## PB (Feb 24, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> *"Germany probably cut down all 10 acres of trees they have for the lumber order. Don't worry, the Germans can't have many more trees.
> 
> This was meant to be a joke. I know Germany has trees. I have friends working on their PhD's in forestry over there."*
> 
> ...



I think on a general basis, Germany doesn't have such a housing demand. They have limited land and the land available to build is ridiculously expensive. It is really cheap to live in the city over there. My friend in Hannover is living comfortably with $40 a week. He said he is not eating Ramen either, steak, fish, and chicken and vegetables are super cheap. Not to mention the cheap alcohol. 

My point is (finally), the lumber produced in Germany might not have a demand like it does here when times are good. They need to manage their forests for the future and the wood they take out might not have a market so they ship it out.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 25, 2009)

*Lowes' Response*

Dear Ian Haywood:

Thank you for sharing your comments about products in Lowe's stores. Lowe's strives to support American businesses by offering their quality home improvement products in our stores. As one of the nation's largest retailers, we support U.S. businesses who are building the many stores we open each year. We also provide good-paying jobs and offer benefits for more than 215,000 employees.

The majority of our business relationships are with U.S.-based vendors, some of whom have manufacturing plants overseas. For products we buy or products we import ourselves, Lowe's has strict standards for foreign-made goods. Our global sourcing policies prohibit the use of child or slave labor in the production of products we sell, and we conduct regular inspections of the factories in which Lowe's-sourced products are made. In addition, we require our vendors to adhere to the same high standards for the products they produce outside the U.S. and sell in our stores.

It is our goal to deliver the quality products at everyday low prices that customers expect from Lowe's. We will continue to support American-made products where possible and will work to be a responsible global citizen for the products we import.

Thank You,

Matt
Lowe's Customer Care


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## slowp (Feb 25, 2009)

That was pretty generic. Go forth and picket the store. Just make sure your sign handles are made from domestic wood. opcorn:


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## Gologit (Feb 25, 2009)

*Hey Ian...*

In other words..."Thankyou for contacting Lowes, we appreciate your concern, value your patronage, and we're gonna do what we damn well want to". I wonder if there's not somebody in the lumber section painting over the "Product of Germany" labels even as we speak.

Do the new COOL laws apply to forest products?


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## Humptulips (Feb 25, 2009)

I was making a hamburger the other day and happened to look at the label on the "Nalleys Dill Pickles". It said "Product of India".

Crazy world we live in!


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