# What are the general rules for cutting wood along county roads



## isaaccarlson (Dec 31, 2009)

There a LOT of dead trees around here and the county won't clean em up!!! I want em.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 31, 2009)

Maybe legally they're on a right of way, but I'd be talking to the land owner to avoid any unpleasantness.

Ian


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## ericjeeper (Dec 31, 2009)

Not sure about Wisconsin. But in Indiana my property goes to the CENTER of the road. That means all trees along my road belong to me. The landowner.
I ASSume your state is the same. Check with the landowner.


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## isaaccarlson (Dec 31, 2009)

*cool, thanks*

.


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## logging22 (Dec 31, 2009)

Not, no, noway, nohow. Missouri hates it when you try to take something from the gov.:censored:


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## Butch(OH) (Dec 31, 2009)

It's kinda a confusing deal, at least in Ohio. If the state wants to take them they can because they are in the right of way, anyone else no, they belong to the land owner. In other words ask because for you a tree along the road is no differant than one that is 100' off the right of way.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 31, 2009)

ericjeeper said:


> Not sure about Wisconsin. But in Indiana my property goes to the CENTER of the road. That means all trees along my road belong to me. The landowner.
> I ASSume your state is the same. Check with the landowner.




Yep. When I lived in California it was like that.


Here where I live now, it's very different. My property stops about 10 feet before the road. That's not universal, but it's typical around here. The power line and DOT trimmers dump wood alongside the road, expecting scavengers to pick it up. They DEPEND on it!


Check the laws and practices where YOU live, because it can be very different from one place to another.


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## stihlcrazy20 (Jan 1, 2010)

in wisconsin you have to talk to the landowner because they own to the center of the road. have done it many times and every county so far has told me it wasnt their place to say yes or no and that i had to talk to the landowner because its their property. hope this helps. btw the counties were juneau, sauk, richland, columbia, adams, and dane


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## KodiakKen (Jan 1, 2010)

*it depends more on local laws than state laws*

If you are close enough...look for water or sewer lines...water taps are usually at the edge of the county property. I live in nw ohio and if I remember correctly it is 33' from the center of the road..of course..here..if there is a tree there that is a hazard..they will tell you "THEY" don't think it is a hazard and won't touch it..it all depends on the local laws..if you really want the wood..cut on the weekend..to hell with government


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## dingeryote (Jan 1, 2010)

Around here it's pretty straightforward.

In front of, or near a house, leave it alone.

Near Farm fields you play it by ear... meaning listen for approaching traffic.

Near woodlots with no farm fields or houses around... it's all about the three point roll outta the truck bed with the saw running, while your partner is shouting "Go! GO! GO!" from the running truck.

Officially there are laws about such things, but they get in the way of budgetary realitys, and aren't needed for the most part when folks respect private property.

LOL!
Last big windstorm we had, the roads were cleared and passable BEFORE the township or county crews got outta bed, and when they did get to the reported blockages, there was nothing but tops on the sides of the road and saw chips.:hmm3grin2orange:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## daleeper (Jan 1, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Around here it's pretty straightforward.
> 
> In front of, or near a house, leave it alone.
> 
> ...



I can't see where your approach gives any respect to private property.

As stated in above posts, in Missouri the property line goes to the middle of the road. Right of ways are issued to utilities and to govt. entities for roadways, I believe the state is in charge of maintaining the right of way along state roads. By law, along township and county roads, the landowner is required to keep the right of way cleared of brush/trees that will cause maintenance problems along the road, some townships enforce this law, some don't.

Ask the landowner, there will be some that will be glad for you to help keep the area clean. Some will not, just move on.


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## AIM (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm pretty sure he was being a bit sarcastic in much of his post.


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## rmotoman (Jan 1, 2010)

You want to find the guy in charge of your township because he knows who does and doesn't care about trimming back the trees.


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## chucker (Jan 1, 2010)

AIM said:


> I'm pretty sure he was being a bit sarcastic in much of his post.



:agree2: and if not ? he still made me laugh for the first time this year!! lol


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## Tootall521 (Jan 1, 2010)

Talk to the land owner and to the county road commissioner. Around here the land owner might say he owns to the center of the road but the county controls so much of the land from the center line of the road. I work for a local elec. coop and when we clear right of way along the road, the wood just lays there and rots much of the time. I get what i can but cant take it all.


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## jburlingham (Jan 1, 2010)

If i understand right, here in CT (at least on state roads) the State owns 14' out from the center of any state road to both sides of the road.


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## spike60 (Jan 1, 2010)

I have a question: Are we talking about stuff that's standing or already on the ground? I wouldn't think that in any area, you'd be given permission to fell something that could land in the road. If it's on the ground, then it's pretty easy pickings. The more rural it is, the less formal it tends to be. 

I think what Dinger says makes a lot of sense. If it's in front of a house, then either ask or pass it by. Out in the middle of nowhere, then why not? No local law is going to differentiate between those two examples in it's wording. Also, this is one of those deals where a town might look the other way if you do it, but they would be taking a liability risk by giving you permission. Same would go for a property owner. Same principal for the storm he mentioned. Officially, they can't say anything, but they are greatful for the help.

In my area, the highway crews and tree service companies leave all usable wood by the side of the road and expect that the locals will grab it. The property owner isn't factored in unless he asks the crew for the wood and they'll usually help run it up his driveway for him. 

I've done this stuff myself both ways. There was a spot near the store where a crew dropped a lot of nice red oak. There was a house real close, so I asked permission. Lady was very nice and actually thanked me. Said they didn't burn and I was welcome to it, and anything else on her property that was on the ground. Another time there were a few nice white oak logs around the corner from my house. 14" to 16" in diameter. Started to rain heavy the day the town took them down and they never blocked it up. Drove by it everyday for a year, and then figured it was just going to rot there. Not really a house in site. One day I grabbed a Jonsered 920 and "saved" that nice wood from rotting. Got two good truck loads.


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## AIM (Jan 1, 2010)

In Ohio the land owner owns to the center of the road BUT. The townships, county, and state have a "right of way".

These numbers might be wrong but it's something like.
If your land is on a township road, the right of way is 15' each side of the centerline of the road.
County roads are 30'
State highways are 50'

The "right of way" means that although you own it, they can come through and trim trees, lay underground cable, set telephone poles, etc without your permission.

As far as cutting trees goes. Like has already been said. If the landowner gives ya permission then by all means CUT AWAY.


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## wdchuck (Jan 1, 2010)

stihlcrazy20 said:


> in wisconsin you have to talk to the landowner because they own to the center of the road. have done it many times and every county so far has told me it wasnt their place to say yes or no and that i had to talk to the landowner because its their property. hope this helps. btw the counties were juneau, sauk, richland, columbia, adams, and dane



+1...:agree2:


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## pointer (Jan 1, 2010)

*right of way*

Talk to someone that works for the township. In the township that I live in I measure the road to find center-line. Measure out 32 feet or until a fence line. That is the right of way. But when i do cut I have to cut down everything can't leave small trees or brush. The guy that I talked to will bring signs and we just drop the trees on the road.


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## goosegunner (Jan 1, 2010)

Another thing to consider is safety. A lot of areas where I live it would be hard to safely park and load the wood.

Sauk county.

That is why I want a Japanese mini truck with dump box! Even in the woods I could cut and get the wood out with no damage to the terrain.

gg


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## gwiley (Jan 1, 2010)

Out of courtesy you need to ask the landowner - even if it is technically on an easement or right of way. I own property at locations away from home and would not appreciate someone taking wood without asking me. Just think about what YOU would want done to you.

It is not too hard to find owner info, especially with google in the picture now - take a few minutes and show some courtesy and you will go much further.

tIf treating your "neighbour" decently doesn't motivate you then consider - There is also the risk of being tagged for stealing lumber - in some states that carries meaningful fines/penalties.


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## Austin1 (Jan 1, 2010)

For me it's no cutting within 1k of a Camp/rec ground, they ask you not to cut trees on a steep hill/mountain to prevent erosion and not to leave branches or shrapnel as I call it on the road. Sounds fair and makes sence to me.


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## Rickochet (Jan 1, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> Not sure about Wisconsin. But in Indiana my property goes to the CENTER of the road. That means all trees along my road belong to me. The landowner.
> I ASSume your state is the same. Check with the landowner.



Good advise jeeper----Can you imagine someone having the gall to stop in front of your woods and begin cutting "dead stuff"???!!! I wonder if the swift *"SHA-SHICK"* sound of a 12 gauge pump action loading some 00 buckshot may make them think about asking first! 

If someone was really in need of wood, I would certainly be willing to help them out, but if ya don't ask.... you're gonna hear that famous *"SHA-SHICK"*........

Please ask first--- we like to keep our fellow forum members alive!

.


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## sachsmo (Jan 1, 2010)

Rickochet said:


> Good advise jeeper----Can you imagine someone having the gall to stop in front of your woods and begin cutting "dead stuff"???!!! I wonder if the swift *"SHA-SHICK"* sound of a 12 gauge pump action loading some 00 buckshot may make them think about asking first!
> 
> If someone was really in need of wood, I would certainly be willing to help them out, but if ya don't ask.... you're gonna hear that famous *"SHA-SHICK"*........
> 
> ...




Yep,


If someone had the courtesy to come to my door to ask, I probably wouldn't say no. Heck I'd grab one of my saws and give them a hand!


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 1, 2010)

> It's kinda a confusing deal, at least in Ohio. If the state wants to take them they can because they are in the right of way, anyone else no, they belong to the land owner. In other words ask because for you a tree along the road is no different than one that is 100' off the right of way.



That is how I would say it works in Connecticut, whether by law or custom I'm not positive. 

Not forgetting Ohio was founded largely by Nutmeggers and their laws tended to be modeled on Connecticut initially.

The law gets very nuanced and complicated if you try to follow it back over nearly 400 years of changing common law and statutes.

But in general, in Connecticut (and Mass / RI seem very similar in my experience) the convoluted laws go:

1) The Town or State owns the highway. The act of laying it out takes that land from the previous owners, who become abutting owners of the new highway.

2) Within the highway the government can only cut trees to the extent necessary for safe and efficient travel, or use by public utilities.

3) The abutting landowners have the right to control the non-traveled portion of the highway so long as it doesn't interfere with travel or utilities (i.e. put up mailbox, mow the lawn, cut trees, plant shrubs).

Basically I can cut -- or authorize cutting -- in the non-traveled portion of the highway abutting my property for any reason I want*; but the town or state can only do so if they can show cause that it's a hazard or interference. )

So the utility companies always seek abutters' permission first when trimming lines, it just makes things simpler then risking an appeals process. By giving my permission, I can claim the wood since it's being cut under my right to control the non-traveled portion of the highway. 

Even when the state widen the highway in front of my house, condemned the land by eminent domain, and sent me a check for it...the tree removal contractor still came and asked my permission to remove the trees and piled up the logs in my yard at my request. That way the state didn't risk me filing a lawsuit claiming the removals weren't necessary.

* There's also the Shade Tree Laws, but you're unlikely to run afoul of them in a rural area; basically in Connecticut if the town plants a tree in a highway right-of-way you can't cut it as a abutting landowner. But if you plant it or it grew naturally you can.


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## dingeryote (Jan 1, 2010)

daleeper said:


> I can't see where your approach gives any respect to private property.
> 
> As stated in above posts, in Missouri the property line goes to the middle of the road. Right of ways are issued to utilities and to govt. entities for roadways, I believe the state is in charge of maintaining the right of way along state roads. By law, along township and county roads, the landowner is required to keep the right of way cleared of brush/trees that will cause maintenance problems along the road, some townships enforce this law, some don't.
> 
> Ask the landowner, there will be some that will be glad for you to help keep the area clean. Some will not, just move on.




33' from center of the road is the county easement, and fair game if wood is in that area.

If it's in front of or near a house, folks ask or leave it alone.

As I posted, woodlots are an exception though. 
By "Woodlot" I mean entire stretches of 2-3 Miles LOL!!!

It ain't like it's typical suburbia here. Folks are gratefull for somebody asking to clear out tops and windrows in these parts.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Rickochet (Jan 1, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> That is how I would say it works in Connecticut, whether by law or custom I'm not positive.
> 
> Not forgetting Ohio was founded largely by Nutmeggers and their laws tended to be modeled on Connecticut initially.
> 
> ...



Now that sounds like East Coast bureaucracy! They like to keep us confused and they always have a loop hole or an escape clause. Not surprising! 

It's just a miracle that we can even cut our own trees without a permit. Or even worse, allow anyone who wants wood to come on our property to take it because "they need it." Or make us cut it and give 35% of all we cut to the government because "they need it"........

Oh, I better not say that too loud, they might hear that and enact a new law that gets pork barreled..... I know, that belongs on the Political Views Forum.... sorry...... but I just couldn't resist! :angrysoapbox:

"SHA-SHICK".......... 

.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jan 1, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> 33' from center of the road is the county easement, and fair game if wood is in that area.





There's a big difference between *easement *and _*ownership*_.


If the county ( or state) has an easement in front of my house, then by definition, *I own that land*. I must, because of the easement, allow them to use it for the stated purpose of the easement (which may be a very broad or a very restricted use, depending on the terms), but they have NO rights and NO control other than that.

Therefore, wood on that property is MY wood. Period. A public easement doesn't change that.


Where I live now, the state/county/HOA does not have an easement. They OWN a 50 foot wide strip of land, and they put a road down the middle of it for us to use to access our property. The grass of my lawn (and everybody else's), extends onto that property and makes it look like part of my lot, because the actual road is not 50 feet wide.

But I do NOT own that land, and therefore, I do NOT own any wood that might happen to be there. The fact that it happens to be near my house doesn't give me any rights over it.


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## dingeryote (Jan 1, 2010)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> There's a big difference between *easement *and _*ownership*_.
> 
> 
> If the county ( or state) has an easement in front of my house, then by definition, *I own that land*. I must, because of the easement, allow them to use it for the stated purpose of the easement (which may be a very broad or a very restricted use, depending on the terms), but they have NO rights and NO control other than that.
> ...



Mark,

Easement and ownership are correct in this regard.

Ya pay taxes all the way to the property line even if it is within the County easement/ROW of 33' from center, but it's the countys ROW and public access/use is allowed.

There have been some interesting feuds in these parts concerning the matter, but it remains as is.

How the heck did you get shnookered into a HOA?
Those things were invented by Fidel Castro and Harpo Marx, during a weekend bender in Amsterdam LOL!!!

Ya can't even have chickens in the yard in most of them!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Butch(OH) (Jan 1, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Not forgetting Ohio was founded largely by Nutmeggers .



Nutmeggers eh? Not sure if yer cussen us or complimentin?. 
Why did they spelt it Ohio and pronounce it Ahia?


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## dingeryote (Jan 1, 2010)

Butch(OH) said:


> Nutmeggers eh? Not sure if yer cussen us or complimentin?.
> Why did they spelt it Ohio and pronounce it Ahia?



Because it's really "Orhiro", but the "R"'s went into the Warsh.

Dadgum New Englanders can't pronounce it, so Y'all put it where it don't belong in rebellion.LOL!!

Buckeyes did a great Job representing the Big 10 today BTW!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Jed1124 (Jan 2, 2010)

We had a fellow a couple of years back who thought it was his God given right to anything 20ft off the roadside. When CL&P came through and ask if they could cut a large apple limb that was getting close to the power lines I said "go ahead". Told a friend and he asked for some for his smoker. Figured I cut it up that weekend. Well, that weekend came and there was no wood to be cut IN MY FRONT YARD. This fine gentleman was following the trucks and bucking and loading into his truck whatever was being cut.
I was livid.At the time I did not know who took it so I just let it be. A week later I noticed some large pieces of wild cherry in front of a neighbors house down the street. I stop and ask if she wanted it. She said she did want it,but it was real nice that I stopped and asked. She told me about a fellow who was bucking in HER FRONT YARD. When told to stop, he cussed at her and said he was on a public right-away. The guys in her front yard! Anyhow, they had it out and now everybody knows who the local wood thief is. The moral of the story would be:even if you think your in the right with regards to property lines or how far off the road or whatever..... ASK THE LAND/HOMEOWNER. The next time I see my local wood thief in my yard he's going to hear the slide of my 12 gauge.


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## bytehoven (Jan 2, 2010)

Jed1124 said:


> The next time I see my local wood thief in my yard he's going to hear the slide of my 12 gauge.



Careful there... I believe CT is one of those States where bringing out a firearm to greet someone in your yard might get ya in a heep of trouble.

I prefer the legal concealed carry approach, even in a jurisdiction where the open carry of firearms is not infringed.

Hell, at this point in time, you take your chances when you approach strangers already off on the wrong path. Be careful out there!


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## KeyStep (Jan 2, 2010)

In most counties in Wisconsin the landowner abutting the highway owns the timber. This is because the landowners actually own the property up to the highway centerline even though the town has an easement to maintain the road. 

In some cases, if the highway in question is owned by the town, the town owns the timber and can decide what to do with the timber but commonly offers the timber to the abutting owner first upon any request. 

Therfore, normally you need permission from the landowner or county to take any timber from the roadside.


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## gwiley (Jan 2, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Mark,
> 
> How the heck did you get shnookered into a HOA?
> Those things were invented by Fidel Castro and Harpo Marx, during a weekend bender in Amsterdam LOL!!!
> ...



I know what you mean about the HOA, one of the previous ones I was in wouldn't let you paint your mailbox unless you got the paint from them!

We have an HOA but it is exclusively to pay for the maintenance on 2 miles of private road. Each of the lots here is 8-12 acres and is heavily wooded. The only things you can't do is run a commercial poultry or pork operation or put in a mobile home. Another nice thing about it is that it means we can regulate access to the James River at the end of the road and keep it for just the few of us that live here. Helps keep the punks and litterbugs out.

One downside to our HOA is that we also have to pay for the road sign - funny how the kids keep stealing the "Lickinghole Road" signs.....go figure.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jan 2, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> How the heck did you get shnookered into a HOA?
> Those things were invented by Fidel Castro and Harpo Marx, during a weekend bender in Amsterdam LOL!!!
> 
> Ya can't even have chickens in the yard in most of them!




I hear ya. I don't like it, but my choices were very limited.



gwiley said:


> I know what you mean about the HOA, one of the previous ones I was in wouldn't let you paint your mailbox unless you got the paint from them!
> 
> We have an HOA but it is exclusively to pay for the maintenance on 2 miles of private road. Each of the lots here is 8-12 acres and is heavily wooded. The only things you can't do is run a commercial poultry or pork operation or put in a mobile home. Another nice thing about it is that it means we can regulate access to the James River at the end of the road and keep it for just the few of us that live here. Helps keep the punks and litterbugs out.




That's pretty much how ours is. There are a few restrictions that are a pain, like not allowing those metal car shelters. Other than that, it's not an issue. Around here, mainly its a way to have the roads maintained without the county being responsible for them. Actual membership in the HOA is not required, but only members can use the public facilities, like the ponds and river access.


We can't have chickens here, but that's a county reg, not the HOA!  Gotta be zoned ag for that.


If I manage to get a bigger place, I will try to avoid an HOA, but unless you're zoned ag (which is what I want), it's hard to avoid them.


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## gwiley (Jan 2, 2010)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> I hear ya. I don't like it, but my choices were very limited.
> 
> That's pretty much how ours is. There are a few restrictions that are a pain, like not allowing those metal car shelters. Other than that, it's not an issue. Around here, mainly its a way to have the roads maintained without the county being responsible for them. Actual membership in the HOA is not required, but only members can use the public facilities, like the ponds and river access.
> 
> ...



My brother is president of the HOA (and is resp. for contracting road maintenance) and my Dad is treasurer, we figured it might not look right I I joined them since the board only has 6 members  

We can have chickens, just not as a commercial operation (although folks here have them and sell a few dozen eggs). Since we can't see each other's houses due to the woods it is all pretty laid back.


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 2, 2010)

stihlcrazy20 said:


> in wisconsin you have to talk to the landowner because they own to the center of the road. have done it many times and every county so far has told me it wasnt their place to say yes or no and that i had to talk to the landowner because its their property. hope this helps. btw the counties were juneau, sauk, richland, columbia, adams, and dane





wdchuck said:


> +1...:agree2:





KeyStep said:


> In most counties in Wisconsin the landowner abutting the highway owns the timber. This is because the landowners actually own the property up to the highway centerline even though the town has an easement to maintain the road.
> 
> In some cases, if the highway in question is owned by the town, the town owns the timber and can decide what to do with the timber but commonly offers the timber to the abutting owner first upon any request.
> 
> Therfore, normally you need permission from the landowner or county to take any timber from the roadside.



There you have it, Isaac. WI is pretty cut and dried. On township roads, the easement is 33' from the centerline, 50' on County roads. Unsure on State/Federal highways. The landowner owns the land and whatever is on that land, including trees, and has the right to remove them if they so desire. The municipality has a right to remove only what may be a hazard to safe travel, and if so, the timber they cut belongs to the landowner, not the municipality.

I'm betting if you just knock on a few doors and ask, a bunch of that down stuff will go home with you!


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## logbutcher (Jan 2, 2010)

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot ----what the H is a *HOA* ??? :monkey::monkey: 
Man. I hope it's not one of those...........

Where did all these street lawyers come out of the woods ?


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## Taxmantoo (Jan 2, 2010)

Looks like you got it straight before I showed up, but to recap:
Here in unincorporated areas of MI, we own to the center of the road, and the gov't has an easement of 33' or more upon which the public can use our land for purposes of freely traveling the public ways. That means the gov't can build a road, a sidewalk, or remove anything of mine that gets in the way of safely building and using roads and sidewalks. All other rights to the property belong to the property owner, or holders of other easements like utility easements. 

In other jurisdictions, the gov't might own the land under the road, and even part of the front yard.


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## gwiley (Jan 2, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot ----what the H is a *HOA* ??? :monkey::monkey:
> Man. I hope it's not one of those...........
> 
> Where did all these street lawyers come out of the woods ?



You must be one of a shrinking minority in the USA. HOA=Home Owner Association, aka formally legally organized nosy neighbors.

Most HOA can regulate everything from what color you pait your house to what material you use for a driveway. Some of the smallest that are put together by rural land owners actually serve a useful purpose (maintaining common private roads) but most are just a way for busy bodies with too much time on their hands to try to control the lives of the working people.


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 2, 2010)

They also serve the purpose of controlling who moves in next door. If you have a $500K brick mansion on 2 acres, the last thing you want is someone buying 1/5 of an acre next door, dragging a used single wide trailer onto it and then promptly starting his new found hobby of junk car collecting.

Ian


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## logbutcher (Jan 3, 2010)

HOA.... Roger that. What a crock. Who would want to live as part of a HOA ?

When we looked for a "retirement" place in northern New England the "P Rule"
ruled. 

P Rule = A man has got to have the freedom to be able to urinate ( is that an OK word to use here ? :monkey: ) in the four ( 4 ) cardinal directions of the compass without offending anyone, neighbors, or wildlife. It was however difficult to have the R.E. brokers understand the requirement until we found one sympathetic with the rule. She also was a Registered Maine Guide. 

HOA


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 3, 2010)

On a side note: you guys out there with property CAN use this to your advantage. Here in Ohio, in my county anyway, any tree within 10 ft of the edge of the road is the countys responsibility. 

I had a 3ft plus catalpa that was dying and had overhead lines on 2 sides. Tree was leaning towards the road. Rather than deal with it I called the county and they came and looked at it. The tree was 4 inches within the limit. County guy said he would not touch it and they ended up hiring a private company to do it (too big/nastyfor them). They took it down in chunks and I burnt the wood(what little it was worth).they chipped all the brush up which was sweet too!

Trees are the Property owners so don't randomly cut without asking. Around here you' have a BAD day if you started cutting without approval.







View attachment 120409


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## rmotoman (Jan 3, 2010)

My brother works for Marion Co. here in Kansas. You can have as much wood in the ditch as you want. They push 100's of cords of wood (lots of it hedge) into piles and burn it every year.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jan 3, 2010)

gwiley said:


> You must be one of a shrinking minority in the USA. HOA=Home Owner Association, aka formally *legally organized nosy neighbors*.
> 
> Most HOA can regulate everything from what color you pait your house to what material you use for a driveway. Some of the smallest that are put together by rural land owners actually serve a useful purpose (maintaining common private roads) but most are just a way for busy bodies with too much time on their hands to try to control the lives of the working people.




That's a pretty good explanation!


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## mtngun (Jan 3, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> They also serve the purpose of controlling who moves in next door. If you have a $500K brick mansion on 2 acres, the last thing you want is someone buying 1/5 of an acre next door, dragging a used single wide trailer onto it and then promptly starting his new found hobby of junk car collecting. Ian


+1

Plus, if a HOA doesn't improve and maintain the access road, who will ?

I've floated the idea of a HOA in my subdivision, mostly to maintain and regulate the access roads (rules for locks and gates and fences and cattleguards). 

But, too many people have the knee jerk reaction _"it's my property and no HOA is going to tell me what to do with it." _ Fine, so we'll never improve the road, and you may have to pass through 100 gates, and you may not be given keys to the locks, and your neighbor may build a commercial hog farm or toxic waste dump, etc.....

But getting back to the original topic ...... in my area, the landowner usually owns to the centerline of the road, and the easement owner has rights 30 feet either side of the centerline. The easement owner does not need to get permission to make road improvements (though it is diplomatic to do so). 

The firewood question came up a few years ago when we had a very hard winter, and several residents including myself ran out of firewood -- and firewood is our only source of heat. There was no way to cut wood on public lands due to 5 feet of snow. No source of store-bought firewood due to the remote location. What to do ?

Well, there were plenty of dead trees along the county road, within the county right of way. The trees were small and had no commercial value. Many of the dead trees were threatening to fall onto the road, a pretty regular event around here. I asked one particular landowner and got permission to harvest a couple. 

I also helped myself to a few more further up the road, that belonged to an absentee landowner. The absentee landowner lived out of state and when he visits here, he lives behind a locked gate and does not socialize with the locals. Anyway, he wasn't around to ask his permission, so I helped myself to 2 or 3 small half rotten trees in the right of way. Later, the landowner found out and had a cow about it, and sent word that he didn't want me cutting any more. I obliged him, even though I wasn't hurting anything or taking anything of value. I figured getting along with neighbors was more important than half rotten firewood.

Realistically, you probably won't get prosecuted for cutting deadwood in a right of way. People do it all the time, and landowners grumble, but it's not the kind of case that a prosecutor is going to pursue. You may be asked to leave, and the police may even be called, but nothing will come of it. Shucks, the law doesn't even have the resources to prosecute murderers and child abusers, let alone people cutting deadwood in a right of way.

I personally have a lot of sympathy for people who cut deadwood in the right of way. They aren't hurting anything, just reducing the fire hazard and the road hazards. The trees are usually small and have no commercial value. There are lots of poor people struggling to keep warm, so why be stingy with the wood ?

Now if someone was cutting large, healthy trees, that would be a different story.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 3, 2010)

mtngun said:


> +1
> 
> Realistically, you probably won't get prosecuted for cutting deadwood in a right of way. People do it all the time, and landowners grumble, but it's not the kind of case that a prosecutor is going to pursue. You may be asked to leave, and the police may even be called, but nothing will come of it. Shucks, the law doesn't even have the resources to prosecute murderers and child abusers, let alone people cutting deadwood in a right of way.
> 
> ...



Gonna take a wild stab in the dark that you don't own a lot of acreage? In our area there is more firewood available than you can shake a stick at. (pun intended) Between excavators and farmers and tree trimmers a guy can get all they want IF they are reliable and do a good job. 

Problem is most shoot themselves in the foot by messing up a farmers land (rutting it up or leaving trash) or not showing up when they say they will. The other one is to show up and work an hour and take only the best stuff. Those guys wonder why they can't get any wood since they need it as they didn't have the foresight to get at least a years supply in advance. The guys that do a good job have wood coming out their ears around here. Farmers talk at coffee shops and spread the word on the good ones as much as they talk about the weekend warriors.

Put a note up at the local coffee shop and go overboard on doing a good job and you'll have all the wood you can burn.


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## des3516pro (Jan 4, 2010)

*North Carolina Line of Ownership*

:greenchainsaw: Here in NC The property owner is responsible for everything up to the edge of the road. After a storm most people will let you have downed trees as long as you clean up all of it not just the nice big stuff. ------------------------------------------- - - Poulan Pro 3516avx  - Stihl MS 170 - ECHO CS-341 - Troy Bilt 27 Ton Splitter - Colins Axe - 02 Chevy 1/2 Ton 4X4


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 4, 2010)

The way I look at it, I'm doing them a favor if I take the big heavy stuff and just leave them the small branches to deal with.  It's a win/win. I get firewood and they get the bulk of the heavy labor done.

mtngun... your subdivision doesn't have roads? You have to depend on enforcing easement rights on landowners and drive through their property to get to your house? Wow.. that was some poor planning on the developer's part. I can see how that might cause some hard feelings. I wonder how many gates get left open repeatedly before a lock appears on them.  

Ian


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## Mike PA (Jan 4, 2010)

Doesn't look like anyone in PA has chimed in yet... Ownership is to the center of the road here. Trees down along the road belong to the landowner. Anyone who takes it without permission is stealing, plain and simple. Ask first.


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## woodbooga (Jan 4, 2010)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Put a note up at the local coffee shop and go overboard on doing a good job and you'll have all the wood you can burn.



And come Christmastime, bring them a pie, or some other home-baked goodies accompanied by a note thanking them for permission to cut on their land(save for dingeryote fruitcake - don't go over well I ascertain). 

Here in rural NH, it's just kind of understood that roadside wood disappears. Rule of thumb is if its in front of the stone fence, it's fair game. Behind the stone fence, the landowner wants the wood and scroungers should (but don't always) treat it like kryptonite.


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## wampum (Jan 6, 2010)

Mike PA said:


> Doesn't look like anyone in PA has chimed in yet... Ownership is to the center of the road here. Trees down along the road belong to the landowner. Anyone who takes it without permission is stealing, plain and simple. Ask first.



I agree with you Mike. One thing I have not seen or may have missed. The only roads that are owned are private roads such as turnpikes. Roads are a lot like stream banks. You own to the center of the stream or road. If the stream goes down,you have access to the dry bank,the water is public domain. If the stream is diverted say for some reason,the governing authority or mother nature deems needed,your land goes to the center of the stream bed or the whole bed if you own on both sides. A public right away is the same. If for some reason that road that goes past your property is closed,you get to reclaim to the center as your property. I have seen several streets closed for shopping malls and so on,and buildings were put right on the old road bed. Also a new road may close a section of old road,this land will revert back to the land owner. The government wants land not being used to be used to gather taxes. We have a race track near here that petitioned the local authorities to close about 1/2 mile of road. The people building the race track owned on both sides. The road was closed and fenced in,the race track was built right over top of the old road. It is now tax able land. In an other case a local steel mill shut down,the local authorities took back a right away,and rebuilt a street that had been closed for over 75 years. As long as that road is not in use and abandoned by the government,it is yours to do with as you want. If you apply for a permit to build a building on it and they approve it,you can build it. The only way they can take it back is to condemn it and pay you a reasonable price for the building.


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## alderman (Jan 6, 2010)

You haven't had fun yet until you're down cutting wood on your property and some sob tries to run you off claiming the wood is theirs.


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## Torin (Jan 6, 2010)

alderman said:


> You haven't had fun yet until you're down cutting wood on your property and some sob tries to run you off claiming the wood is theirs.


How did you handle it?


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## Mike PA (Jan 6, 2010)

alderman said:


> You haven't had fun yet until you're down cutting wood on your property and some sob tries to run you off claiming the wood is theirs.



I haven't quite had that problem, but I found one guy who bought a permit to cut on a friends land from a guy who expressly does NOT have permission to cut. The guy who was cutting thought he was doing everything right, so he was allowed to finish cutting for the day. Went and had a talk with the permit seller.


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## isaaccarlson (Jan 6, 2010)

*Thank you for all the great info.*

I will be asking around and will hopefully end up with more wood than I need.


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 6, 2010)

> Rule of thumb is if its in front of the stone fence,



You disappoint me Woodbooga...it's a stone *wall*. It's not a lawful fence in New England till it's 4' tall, hog tight, and ox strong. There's a few stone fences around, but not many.


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## woodbooga (Jan 6, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> You disappoint me Woodbooga...it's a stone *wall*. It's not a lawful fence in New England till it's 4' tall, hog tight, and ox strong. There's a few stone fences around, but not many.



you forgot "hoss high" in that. Sounds like you're describing a town pound.

Around where I grew up, stone walls were barriers. The merino sheep were especially skillful at finding the loose stones as they systematically went along the length of a wall.

A stone fence deliniates a boundary along property lines or between a pasture and the right of way. Think Robert Frost and his neighbor who was constantly muttering somesuch about "good fences making good neighbors." Can't be having my apples mingling with your pinecones, now!


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## johncinco (Jan 6, 2010)

Dinger you better be careful out there. I just found out how screwed up the State of Michigan is on this. 

We have the 33' of county controlled and maintained right of way. Typicaly, the land owner gets first "dibs" on any cutting in front of their place. You can call and ask the county, (at least over here on the West side) and they say take it, cut em down, less for them, especially on dead standing. They are HAPPY to have you take em down. As a nice courtesy you go see Mr. Homeowner, farm owner around me, and he says no problem, you work it you take it. So you set yourself to work and get a nice load of wood and have a good feeling that there wont be trees all across the road at the next storm. Guess what, the State shows up. No sheit, you have violated removal of State controlled trees. They can fine you, force you to pay for replacement, pay stumpage fees, DNR fines, and of course legal costs. A happy firewood gatherer just like myself was snatched up for $5100 for cutting DEAD trees. A farmer clearing out a hedgerow was fined $25,000 for clearing the edge of his OWN land. I woulda thought this would fly in Kalifornia, but Michigan, no way. I am pretty sure its all about the state being broke, and any infraction will be enforced for the cash. Dont expect to get a warning for speeding either. 

As you say, Be careful out there!


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 7, 2010)

johncinco said:


> Dinger you better be careful out there. I just found out how screwed up the State of Michigan is on this.
> 
> We have the 33' of county controlled and maintained right of way. Typicaly, the land owner gets first "dibs" on any cutting in front of their place. You can call and ask the county, (at least over here on the West side) and they say take it, cut em down, less for them, especially on dead standing. They are HAPPY to have you take em down. As a nice courtesy you go see Mr. Homeowner, farm owner around me, and he says no problem, you work it you take it. So you set yourself to work and get a nice load of wood and have a good feeling that there wont be trees all across the road at the next storm. Guess what, the State shows up. No sheit, you have violated removal of State controlled trees. They can fine you, force you to pay for replacement, pay stumpage fees, DNR fines, and of course legal costs. A happy firewood gatherer just like myself was snatched up for $5100 for cutting DEAD trees. A farmer clearing out a hedgerow was fined $25,000 for clearing the edge of his OWN land. I woulda thought this would fly in Kalifornia, but Michigan, no way. I am pretty sure its all about the state being broke, and any infraction will be enforced for the cash. Dont expect to get a warning for speeding either.
> 
> As you say, Be careful out there!



That's F'd up...does MI give an easement for the road, or own the roadway? Here in WI that wouldnt fly. I can get a pic of my deed showing the road easement, it does NOT include rights to timber, gas, or anything except the right to build and maintain a road over the easement.

They try to claim even 1 of my trees, shooting may start. It came close when they "trimmed" one of my oaks with the ditch mower. I "think" we have an understanding now.


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## dingeryote (Jan 7, 2010)

johncinco said:


> Dinger you better be careful out there. I just found out how screwed up the State of Michigan is on this.
> 
> We have the 33' of county controlled and maintained right of way. Typicaly, the land owner gets first "dibs" on any cutting in front of their place. You can call and ask the county, (at least over here on the West side) and they say take it, cut em down, less for them, especially on dead standing. They are HAPPY to have you take em down. As a nice courtesy you go see Mr. Homeowner, farm owner around me, and he says no problem, you work it you take it. So you set yourself to work and get a nice load of wood and have a good feeling that there wont be trees all across the road at the next storm. Guess what, the State shows up. No sheit, you have violated removal of State controlled trees. They can fine you, force you to pay for replacement, pay stumpage fees, DNR fines, and of course legal costs. A happy firewood gatherer just like myself was snatched up for $5100 for cutting DEAD trees. A farmer clearing out a hedgerow was fined $25,000 for clearing the edge of his OWN land. I woulda thought this would fly in Kalifornia, but Michigan, no way. I am pretty sure its all about the state being broke, and any infraction will be enforced for the cash. Dont expect to get a warning for speeding either.
> 
> As you say, Be careful out there!



John,

Where is this at? Allegan Co.?

Clearing Hedgerows falls under right to farm, and the State dropping fines for cleaning up state controlled trees would open a whole Barrel of whoop ass.

I wouldn't put anything past that Communist skank Ho Grandmole though, and it wouldn't be the first time the DNR had to be spanked under her.

Thanks for the heads up!
Looks like I have a topic for Coffee with a few friends this weekend.
Maybe I can find out what the heck is going on with this.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## blackoak (Jan 7, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> Not sure about Wisconsin. But in Indiana my property goes to the CENTER of the road. That means all trees along my road belong to me. The landowner.
> I ASSume your state is the same. Check with the landowner.


If you own to the center of the road, and own all the trees are you going to be responsible if a snag falls out of the top of one of your trees and causes a wreck and someone dies, or will it be the state or counties problem. I was in a discussion on this same topic on another non chainsaw related forum.


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## dingeryote (Jan 7, 2010)

Steve NW WI said:


> That's F'd up...does MI give an easement for the road, or own the roadway? Here in WI that wouldnt fly. I can get a pic of my deed showing the road easement, it does NOT include rights to timber, gas, or anything except the right to build and maintain a road over the easement.
> 
> They try to claim even 1 of my trees, shooting may start. It came close when they "trimmed" one of my oaks with the ditch mower. I "think" we have an understanding now.



Steve,

Some counties vary, and we do have LOTS of State forrest/easements that get silly, but for the most part it's the same in rural counties.

The hedgerow issue is interesting, and flies in the face of the states right to farm act. THAT could be a really ugly and bloody mess waiting to happen.
Folks are already cranked up and torqued, over Grandmole suddenly trying to grab Farm water rights, in order to fund her Communist Utopia in Wayne county. 

Things have gotten silly with the depression to say the least.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 7, 2010)

blackoak said:


> If you own to the center of the road, and own all the trees are you going to be responsible if a snag falls out of the top of one of your trees and causes a wreck and someone dies, or will it be the state or counties problem. I was in a discussion on this same topic on another non chainsaw related forum.




The way it works in our state is the land owner NOR the state is responsible. Kind of falls under the "act of nature deal". Now if you have cut on or are cutting the tree, it is your baby. The other situation where a land owner is at fault is if a distressed/dying tree is hanging over the property line and neighbor TELLS land owner about and they do nothing, they are liable if it damages anything. 

Bottom line is anything is possible with lawyers though.


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## johncinco (Jan 11, 2010)

I am in Newaygo county. The private landowner deal was in this county, the farmer was in Muskegon county. I was talking with someone about this over the weekend and it happened in Kent county to a apple farm as well. They were cutting back the hedgerow to keep them away from the apple rows, and the state came in and said they had removed state controlled trees illegally. These were along a road, but way beyond any 33' or 66' easement. Screwy rules. I have some beauts down the road from me just waiting to go, but dang I am not risking some stupid fine. The guy I talked with works for a cable company. Power lines are usually much higher, and have less tree problems. The power company owns the poles, cable leases the space from them. The cable lines run lower, so they are always having trouble with trees and such.


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## hammercore (Jan 31, 2010)

This question is for the WI guys.

A little bit off subject, but what do you guys think my chances are of cutting up some fallen trees on county owned land. There are two decent sized oaks across the road from my property that fell this past summer and they are on county owned land. Is there a chance of the county saying go ahead or should i not even bother asking because the answer will most likely be a no?


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## Steve NW WI (Feb 1, 2010)

Many counties offer firewood cutting permits. Go to the county courthouse and find the county forester or ag department, and check with them. Polk county on this side of the state offers cutting permits for private use (not for selling the wood) for I beleive $10, with a 10 cord limit. Let the guys that actually buy one correct me... I could be wrong on amounts and price, but permits are available at a pretty reasonable price.


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## grandnational (Feb 1, 2010)

Here in CT, I grab wood from the side of major highways almost weekly. I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by telling people this, bu t if you are 100% off the paved road, nobody can do a damn thing as long as you aren't posing a risk to anybody/yourself. Countless times I've been cruising down the highway, and see the DOT guys cutting down huge oaks/maples. They usually buck it to 32 inches or so, so I literally fill a truck bed in 5 minutes and scoot. I rarely have to start a saw to free anything up. Call me a wood whore, but I've probably scored 5 cords of almost seasoned oak/maple/ash in the last 3 months, with all of an hours time of work loading it into the truck. I usually wear a safety vest and a white hard hat, so joe-six-packers think I'm the state anyways. I've never been stopped or even questioned over the past 2 years I've been doing this. I figure they encourage grabbing it considering they buck it into easily handable sizes.


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