# Tips and tricks yarding softwood logs



## Saiso (Mar 25, 2019)

Morning everyone!
As some may already know, this cutting season I will be cutting a lot for various reasons. Mainly because 1) we need firewood 2) we need to prep for our off grid house being built in a couple years.

I will be cutting more softwood logs this year in order to get them milled for our house and also to sell to make money.

My concern is, moving and yarding those bigger logs (8ft to 16ft probably) without a skidder, tractor, or any heavy machinery. Just a young man, a couple pulp hooks, a small truck and a trailer.

Our local mill said he can come with his tractor and mill and do the work on my land but if I can make more money by bringing the logs there, that option may be considered. Unless the logs are too big and heavy for myself.

What have you done without any equipment in the past? Do you just avoid the bigger logs all together? Certain tools to make it easier? Just make sure to stretch and do yoga in the morning and go all out?

I’ve worked with decent sized logs at 8-16ft long before but I suspect some to be bigger than what I’ve handled before.

Bigger softwood species would be balsam fir, white/red spruce and tamarack. 

Some of the income (if any) will go towards a compact tractor this year. So this is hopefully just temporary until busy season starts at work. 

Thanks!


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## buzz sawyer (Mar 25, 2019)

What diameter?


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## Saiso (Mar 25, 2019)

buzz sawyer said:


> What diameter?


Varies. Theres a spruce stand not too far from the camp road that are between 30-48 Cm DBH or so. Some will be bigger than that. There’s over 24 individual trees in that little stand. 

I’m guessing anything that I can lift off the ground, because I’m hard headed, I’ll try to yard with a pulp hook but was looking for tips to perhaps save my back


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## Leeroy (Mar 25, 2019)

Have you considered an Alaskan mill for some of your own lumber?


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## Saiso (Mar 25, 2019)

Leeroy said:


> Have you considered an Alaskan mill for some of your own lumber?


Have yes. It’ll come sometime after a tractor purchase and after our house is built. Our local mill is literally a couple minutes drive, all back roads. I’m there quite regularly buying rough wood, talking, etc. I told him I’d be interested in buying one of his mills when he wants to slow down. He’s got about 5.


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## buzz sawyer (Mar 25, 2019)

If you haul the logs to the mill, you have to haul the lumber back. I would lean towards bringing the mill to the logs for less handling. Do you have room to stack the lumber for drying as you take it off the mill? For logs that size, you would get more yield with a bandsaw mill than a chainsaw mill.


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## Saiso (Mar 25, 2019)

buzz sawyer said:


> If you haul the logs to the mill, you have to haul the lumber back. I would lean towards bringing the mill to the logs for less handling. Do you have room to stack the lumber for drying as you take it off the mill? For logs that size, you would get more yield with a bandsaw mill than a chainsaw mill.


He’s got 5 band saw mills. Wood mizers 

You’re right about hauling the lumber back. I might get him to come deal with the bigger stuff but I’d still like to bring smaller loads to him because I feel it might be quicker to earn a few bucks than to always wait for him.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 25, 2019)

Get 100' of cable, 10mm or so bigger is better, a snatch block, a couple of chockers.

Hang snatch block 10-20 feet up a solid tree, run cable through it to small truck, and the other end to logs.

If possible you can use existing road/trail to keep the truck on,and drag a considerable amount of wood in next to the road.

From the sounds of it, you could even fall em tree length, limb em, and pull the whole works in in one go, maybe even 2 at a time, for sure if they are bucked first


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## 2dogs (Mar 26, 2019)

Parbuckle up ramps onto a deck over trailer.


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## old CB (Mar 26, 2019)

Northman is telling you right. Skid the logs with truck power. It's usually a 2-person job: one driving and one watching the progress of the log and signaling the driver. If the traveling log butts up against a keeper tree, you need to stop and redo. Sometimes it's just a matter of levering the log one way or another. A skidding cone can be handy, especially on level ground. I use one sometimes, but in our mountain terrain it works and doesn't work.

Also, depending on your truck and the load you're skidding, you may need to put a load on the truck (ballast) for traction.

Northy says cable because he's a pro, dealing with huge, heavy logs and lots of 'em, and cable is what spools off the tail of his skidder. For your application, you could probably do with rope. I skid a lot of trees--medium size, but I think that's what you'll have--with rope. I use 1/2" stable braid (Samson, I think) and CMI snatch blocks. 150 or 200 foot of rope and a couple snatch blocks will get you a lot of material out of the woods. Just watch you don't get in a bind--snap that rope and it's like a shotgun blast, could take yer head off if you were nearby. (Done it once when a log stopped against a hidden stump. Won't do it again.)


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## northmanlogging (Mar 27, 2019)

I like cable, cause it don't get cut... Also tends to not have as much spring force as rope does, despite some blatant advertising on behalf of some winch line manufactures.

Might be a good idear to go ahead and get 2 snatch blocks one for redirection when needed the other for lift

Toss a half cord of firewood in the pick up truck and get one end of a log off the ground you'd be surprised how much wood you can move in a couple days.


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## Saiso (Mar 27, 2019)

Wow thanks a lot guys. I’ll give that a try once the snow melts! 

Should be quicker and better than my two legs.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 27, 2019)

Know anyone with a skidder or dozer setup with a winch (with log arch would be ideal)?
Log arch- https://www.brokentractor.com/c/john-deere-dozer/winch-fairleads-and-log-arch/

Or place to rent on (dozer at least)

I wouldn't want to use a pickup in the woods as a skidder unless it was an old beater and it was fairly smooth and dry land without a bunch of thick underbrush.

Iyou are expecting to build a whole house out of 24 logs?


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## Saiso (Mar 27, 2019)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> Know anyone with a skidder or dozer setup with a winch (with log arch would be ideal)?
> Log arch- https://www.brokentractor.com/c/john-deere-dozer/winch-fairleads-and-log-arch/
> 
> Or place to rent on (dozer at least)
> ...


No, the closest and easiest stand consists of probably 30 trees that are breaking and showing age, so I’m gonna tackle those spruces first.

Then at our future homestead area. Clearing for house/garage, driveway, backyard, building a trail around some sugar maple to make it my wood splitting area.

I plan on making one or two big strip cuts across our second 50 acre lot and skid out the softwood logs for income, hardwood logs for firewood.

I also have quite a bit of hardwood logs already cut on most of my trails so those should be easy to load on the truck.

There are some people local to me with skidders and/or dozers but I’m afraid the cost of renting equipment may influence the money I can make.

I’m thinking of contacting banks and see if I can afford a small loan for a compact tractor to help skid these out. Would save a lot of time = More production = money quicker = can pay off that small loan in no time.


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## square1 (Mar 27, 2019)

Search capstan or lewis winch. Some sort of portable winch, a snatch block or two, and a small selection of chains and / or straps is probably the best bang for your buck to get started.

Edit to add: Once your back is hurt / injured it is a problem for a long time, sometimes for life.


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## old CB (Mar 27, 2019)

The portable winch runs about $1500 last time I looked. Good tool. I use one in areas where the pickup cannot get to. Its capacity is limited to smaller loads than what a skidder or a pickup or tractor can pull, but then its cost is less too. One person can operate the winch, as your eyes are always on the work.

One note on hanging snatch blocks for a redirect (change in direction)--you have to be careful not to overload the tree you attach to. We pulled a tree out of the ground one time.


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## Saiso (Mar 27, 2019)

old CB said:


> The portable winch runs about $1500 last time I looked. Good tool. I use one in areas where the pickup cannot get to. Its capacity is limited to smaller loads than what a skidder or a pickup or tractor can pull, but then its cost is less too. One person can operate the winch, as your eyes are always on the work.
> 
> One note on hanging snatch blocks for a redirect (change in direction)--you have to be careful not to overload the tree you attach to. We pulled a tree out of the ground one time.


Right on man, thanks a lot!


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## 2dogs (Mar 27, 2019)

What diameter logs are you thinking about moving?


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## Saiso (Mar 27, 2019)

2dogs said:


> What diameter logs are you thinking about moving?


I’ve yet to visit our second lot to see where I’ll be targeting, but most of them will be between 30-50cm DBH. Some likely bigger. Mostly balsam fir, spruce and tamarack. Hardwood can be cut to stove lengths so not worried about them.


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 28, 2019)

Some times a tractor has no value and some times priceless. There are always ways to get a job done on a budget. I can move a 72'' x 14' log with my F 250 so can you. Trailers are cheap to build and modify as needed. Skidding a log to a place where they can be loaded is not difficult either. When I need to move some thing heavy I grab limbs that are straight to use as rollers under a log. Attach a cable or chain so that both sides that are being pulled stick a row of limbs in front of the log and pull away. Very large logs can be moved this way because the log is not being dragged but rolled. For loading pull your trailer along side of the log and place two ramps enabling the log to be rolled onto the trailer. Once loaded chain it down deliver it and return for more. You can pick up two HF 2500 LB winches for a $100. Place the winches about 8 to 10' apart with two cables or chains around the log spaced equally and pull side ways with the log rolling onto the trailer. There are several threads concerning this. Find a used lawnmower and mount a automotive alternator to charge the battery(s) to power your winches. There are several threads on Google with DIY lawnmower powered generator. Yes it will take some time to set up this but once done it is still yours. Thanks


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 28, 2019)

Some times a tractor has no value and some times priceless. There are always ways to get a job done on a budget. I can move a 72'' x 14' log with my F 250 so can you. Trailers are cheap to build and modify as needed. Skidding a log to a place where they can be loaded is not difficult either. When I need to move some thing heavy I grab limbs that are straight to use as rollers under a log. Attach a cable or chain so that both sides that are being pulled stick a row of limbs in front of the log and pull away. Very large logs can be moved this way because the log is not being dragged but rolled. For loading pull your trailer along side of the log and place two ramps enabling the log to be rolled onto the trailer. Once loaded chain it down deliver it and return for more. You can pick up two HF 2500 LB winches for a $100. Place the winches about 8 to 10' apart with two cables or chains around the log spaced equally and pull side ways with the log rolling onto the trailer. There are several threads concerning this. Find a used lawnmower and mount a automotive alternator to charge the battery(s) to power your winches. There are several threads on Google with DIY lawnmower powered generator. Yes it will take some time to set up this but once done it is still yours. Thanks


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 28, 2019)

Some times a tractor has no value and some times priceless. There are always ways to get a job done on a budget. I can move a 72'' x 14' log with my F 250 so can you. Trailers are cheap to build and modify as needed. Skidding a log to a place where they can be loaded is not difficult either. When I need to move some thing heavy I grab limbs that are straight to use as rollers under a log. Attach a cable or chain so that both sides that are being pulled stick a row of limbs in front of the log and pull away. Very large logs can be moved this way because the log is not being dragged but rolled. For loading pull your trailer along side of the log and place two ramps enabling the log to be rolled onto the trailer. Once loaded chain it down deliver it and return for more. You can pick up two HF 2500 LB winches for a $100. Place the winches about 8 to 10' apart with two cables or chains around the log spaced equally and pull side ways with the log rolling onto the trailer. There are several threads concerning this. Find a used lawnmower and mount a automotive alternator to charge the battery(s) to power your winches. There are several threads on Google with DIY lawnmower powered generator. Yes it will take some time to set up this but once done it is still yours. Thanks


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## Saiso (Mar 29, 2019)

Ted Jenkins said:


> Some times a tractor has no value and some times priceless. There are always ways to get a job done on a budget. I can move a 72'' x 14' log with my F 250 so can you. Trailers are cheap to build and modify as needed. Skidding a log to a place where they can be loaded is not difficult either. When I need to move some thing heavy I grab limbs that are straight to use as rollers under a log. Attach a cable or chain so that both sides that are being pulled stick a row of limbs in front of the log and pull away. Very large logs can be moved this way because the log is not being dragged but rolled. For loading pull your trailer along side of the log and place two ramps enabling the log to be rolled onto the trailer. Once loaded chain it down deliver it and return for more. You can pick up two HF 2500 LB winches for a $100. Place the winches about 8 to 10' apart with two cables or chains around the log spaced equally and pull side ways with the log rolling onto the trailer. There are several threads concerning this. Find a used lawnmower and mount a automotive alternator to charge the battery(s) to power your winches. There are several threads on Google with DIY lawnmower powered generator. Yes it will take some time to set up this but once done it is still yours. Thanks


Thank you! I will for sure try and modify a trailer to facilitate our work. Sounds like something I could manage.


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## Saiso (May 5, 2019)

The fun begins!
My friend and I spent a few mornings (7-12) cutting the softwood stand near the cabin. It’s coming along pretty good so far. Still a bit of snow at places but it actually helps hauling them out. Still a few sessions here to go before calling the mill. So far just a broken side mirror on the Tacoma trying to squeeze in tight places .. isn’t that what a woods truck is for?  Also had my little helper one morning helping me move/pile logs


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## Jeff Lary (Sep 18, 2019)

nice photos good luck with the harvest, your doing just fine


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## Wow (Sep 19, 2019)

square1 said:


> Search capstan or lewis winch. Some sort of portable winch, a snatch block or two, and a small selection of chains and / or straps is probably the best bang for your buck to get started.
> 
> Edit to add: Once your back is hurt / injured it is a problem for a long time, sometimes for life.


Back injury. Yep. I was a bull. Blowed my shoulders one by one. Tore my bicept. Damaged my back. Back in the day I was a wood Splitter dude. The crack of that pole axe and rippling muscle caught the attention of my girlfriend. Then one day my back cracked and I fell. I was rushed to the Emergency room. Now I'm still handicapped. Yes, my shoulders and back are better but it would have been better to not have over do it. At 72 I'm able to work some but now I work smarter not harder. I run a 60cc saw a few times a month and a 50 cc saw more often. Sometimes a man can be strong enough to just tear muscle off bone. Strangely some of us who have worked hard all our lives don't realize when we are hurting ourselves. Be safe.


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## ArtB (Sep 19, 2019)

You cannot afford to NOT get some machinery. Yep, like WOW, me too used to think I was a 'bull' when young. YOU too will get older.

So, this is another along the same line as to machinery and your own self all the while keeping in mind the OP comment:
_What have you done without any equipment in the past? Do you just avoid the bigger logs all together? Certain tools to make it easier? Just make sure to stretch and do yoga in the morning and go all out?_

When in my 20s and 30s used to flip 8 ft long, 12" dia wet D Fir and alder logs end over end into trailer, even flip end over end to mover a few times. Last time I did that in my 30s grunted so hard popped out a hemorrhoid! So quit that heavy lifting.
Tore rotator cuff clear thru once also in my 50s still thinking I was 'strong'. Hah, too soon old, too late schmartz!

74 YO now, and 98% rely on machinery vs. brawn (the 2% - still use a maul vs. splitter). Probably could not even get the end of a D Fir log 2 inches off the ground today, and wont even try. 
Heck, nowadays. even use an electric chain saw when near power vs. pulling the cord on a saw.
In 30s could carry 6 sheets of 1/2"drywall up stairs at a time, now have to tear them apart and trouble carrying one sheet! Used to be able to carry 3 stacked bags of 94# cement at a time from truck 50 feet to mixer, now have trouble with even one 80# bag of premix - and with the premix on a handcart!!

If you have any mechanical ability, old used machinery is cheap, since demand is low as productivity of old stuff is dismal compared to new equipment if you are full time operator. One can get old equipment for nearly scrap steel prices in some areas of the country. 

Another tip. NEVER go into the woods with anything overhead with a wheeled or tracked machine to pull logs or anything else. Had the taken FOPS off a D2 dozer 40 years ago to replace a clutch, went into woods without the FOPS for 'one quick trip' - got out of hospital still alive 2 weeks later.

Just for hobby and general use, now have a truck mounted 1000# crane on back of PU, 20 ft crane attachment on back of old 440 crawler, 3 different sized winches that fit trailer hitch receivers, a bobcat, and ford backhoe. All of that equipment was bought used for about 5 to 10 cents per pound, total cost less than about any low end new car today. I do like to repair and weld back together old stuff though<G> Still use a peavey in spot yet though, but nothing is as satisfying a simply grapping a log with backhoe thumb and putting it where you want it!


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## Saiso (Sep 19, 2019)

ArtB said:


> You cannot afford to NOT get some machinery. Yep, like WOW, me too used to think I was a 'bull' when young. YOU too will get older.
> 
> So, this is another along the same line as to machinery and your own self all the while keeping in mind the OP comment:
> _What have you done without any equipment in the past? Do you just avoid the bigger logs all together? Certain tools to make it easier? Just make sure to stretch and do yoga in the morning and go all out?_
> ...


It’s not that I think I’m a young bull and that I can do this without consequence. It’s the fact that we’re just starting off and the money isn’t there to buy the tools I would need or want. We’re also in the process of buying/building a house so that’s our priority right now. 

Trust me, if I could get the pieces of equipment that I want, I would have gone yesterday! 

Thanks


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## Jeff Lary (Oct 22, 2019)

No one has it all to start with it takes time. Set goals to own equipment that you can someday afford,.. and someday you will. I started very very young when my dad passed away using my grandfathers Allis Chalmers model B farm tractor and my mom bought me a new Jonsered 510sp. The owner of the saw shop pretty much refused to sell her the saw knowing who would be running it, but in the end he did. My point is that most of the people here are of an age that they have gotten most everything thing they need to work with by now, I am 56. You will get there it just takes time and of course money.


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