# Mini skid-steers?



## WolverineMarine (Oct 13, 2008)

I saw everyone raving about full sized machines on the "skid steer" thread..what do you guys think about the mini versions..I saw Dan has a Torro Dingo..I know Bobcat makes em..as well as Vermeer and others..show me some actual owner pics and pros and cons please..


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 13, 2008)

With the right grapple they are great for hauling out of back yards. I know several people with them.


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## capetrees (Oct 13, 2008)

I've wanted one for years but I haven't had enough work to buy/use it to justify the payments. I'd be better off hiring another guy because another guy I can use everywhere. No so for the machine and the payments are due every month. For brush work it would be a great help but I'm sure its limited on what it can pickup and move with efficiency. And loading height is anothert down side. Most can only get over the side of a 1 ton. A plus side is the numerous attachments and the ability for it to bet into small areas.


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## pdqdl (Oct 14, 2008)

I tested the auger attachment, and it worked VERY well. Their digging capacity leaves quite a bit to be desired, but they will probably dig more in an hour than two men. I rented one once for using in snow removal, but that didn't work so well.

I would like to have one, but when I checked out prices, horsepower, lift capacity, etc, I felt that they came up short. They seem much better suited for landscapers than for tree service, which is what I was targeting it for.

They just cost too much per usage of the machine.

For example: they only pick up logs to around 5' height. That isn't enough to get any wood onto my single axle dump trucks, and certainly won't pile them up onto the middle of the truck.

They only have a lift capacity of around 500 lbs. That is MUCH more than a couple of guys can carry, but for somewhere close to $15 grand, they are a complete joke compared to the 6000 lb tipping capacity of my A300 bobcat for a measly 50 grand. And being skid steer, they will do WAY more turf damage than either a log dolly or my A300.

It was an easy call for me, but I am sure other tree guys will put them to excellent use. For example, I'll be they are great for moving a big pile of wood from back yard to front so that a grapple truck can finish the pile.


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## mckeetree (Oct 14, 2008)

capetrees said:


> I've wanted one for years but I haven't had enough work to buy/use it to justify the payments. I'd be better off hiring another guy because another guy I can use everywhere. No so for the machine and the payments are due every month. For brush work it would be a great help but I'm sure its limited on what it can pickup and move with efficiency. And loading height is anothert down side. Most can only get over the side of a 1 ton. A plus side is the numerous attachments and the ability for it to bet into small areas.



The payments??? The things only cost $10,000 to start with. You are not talking about much payment. Can't justify the payments. Good Lord.


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## arbor pro (Oct 14, 2008)

A mini is certainly no comparison to a full-sized skid steer. They're not meant to be. Each has its own use. I prefer a mini over a full-sized machine because I can 'sneek' into back yards and through gates where a full-sized machine can't go. I also use a one-ton and dump trailer for cleanup so my mini can reach to load them whereas, if I had a big dump truck, my mini would not. 

I consider my tree care services a bit unique from many of the others in my area as I target the hard-to-get-to jobs which require specialized equipment and/or climbing. The other tree services can't/won't do jobs they can't get their big equipment to. I step in with my mini skid and towable aerial lift (which I move into place using my mini skid) and seal the deal with the customer. Like I said, each has its place and I'll dispute what was said about minis being a joke. Maybe they are compared to a what a full-sized skid steer can lift but they are no joke when the big skid steer can't get into an area because it's too wet or too small of an area!


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## BRCCArborist (Oct 14, 2008)

Ive never used one, but looks like they would be handy for lighter stuff like auger jobs, trenching, light debri pickup, etc. with tracks they could be real nice on lawns.


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## squad143 (Oct 14, 2008)

I love my mini skid. It's a Thomas 25g and has a bucket and branch manager grapple. Yes it does have it's limitations. Not that great on digging, limited lifting height, etc.

Most manufactures rate lifting capacity at 50% of tipping capacity. The 25g's lifting capacity is 500lbs., therefore it's tipping capacity is 1,000lbs, and yes it will pick up 1,000lbs before it starts to tip. I've added 150lbs of weight to the rear (dumbells) which helps the machine with the tipping issue. On bigger logs, you can always get an extra ground guy (or two) to stand on the rear for extra ballast. I use a 6 ton float trailer, so height is not as great an issue.

Where this thing really shines is for dragging, moving brush (and smaller logs). I don't bring it to every job, but on those with extended brush dragging, it will do the work of 3-4 guys.

I bought it used with the grapple for $5,500. Had to drive 9 hrs. (one way) to get it. The deals are out there if you look.


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## SLlandscape (Oct 14, 2008)

mckeetree said:


> The payments??? The things only cost $10,000 to start with. You are not talking about much payment. Can't justify the payments. Good Lord.



I priced a Ditch Witch SK650 with pallet forks, 36" bucket, and turf tracks at $24,356.25 for 6.9 percent at $423 a month. It has 32.8 gross Hp and a 650 lb operating capacity.


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## arbor pro (Oct 14, 2008)

SLlandscape said:


> I priced a Ditch Witch SK650 with pallet forks, 36" bucket, *and turf tracks *at $24,356.25 for 6.9 percent at $423 a month. It has 32.8 gross Hp and a 650 lb operating capacity.



Has anyone found actual 'turf' tracks for their mini skid? I've only been able to find lug tracks for my bobcat mt50. While they are better on soft ground than tires, I would prefer a flatter turf track. My old tracks which were completely worn flat were great but, eventually they started tearing so I had to replace them with new ones. The new ones now leave a small lug imprint in soft ground which I don't like.

Thanks.


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## SLlandscape (Oct 14, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Has anyone found actual 'turf' tracks for their mini skid? I've only been able to find lug tracks for my bobcat mt50. While they are better on soft ground than tires, I would prefer a flatter turf track. My old tracks which were completely worn flat were great but, eventually they started tearing so I had to replace them with new ones. The new ones now leave a small lug imprint in soft ground which I don't like.
> 
> Thanks.



The turf tracks that Ditch Witch has look like the same tread pattern for turf tires on a tractor, but intsead they are on tracks. However, I don't know if any other mini skid producing companies offer this style of track. I would bet an after market company has them, but who knows.


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## capetrees (Oct 14, 2008)

mckeetree said:


> The payments??? The things only cost $10,000 to start with. You are not talking about much payment. Can't justify the payments. Good Lord.




$10K? Where do you live? Try $18-24K for new. You want used, used hard considering the things are underpowered and someone that buys one that isn't happy with it and makes it do things it shouldn't? You get a new one with tracks for $10k and I'm in. Any links?


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## capetrees (Oct 14, 2008)

For the turf track questions, this might help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULRjWtjj2g


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## mckeetree (Oct 15, 2008)

capetrees said:


> $10K? Where do you live? Try $18-24K for new. You want used, used hard considering the things are underpowered and someone that buys one that isn't happy with it and makes it do things it shouldn't? You get a new one with tracks for $10k and I'm in. Any links?



It was a Thomas brand and it had wheels. Saw it at the landscape expo in Dallas. It was like $9,995.00 new.


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## arbor pro (Oct 15, 2008)

capetrees said:


> For the turf track questions, this might help
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULRjWtjj2g



Those tracks are what I want! Now...where can I find them for a MINI skid steer (Bobcat MT50)?


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## okietreedude1 (Oct 15, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> I'll dispute what was said about minis being a joke.



Ill second this. Ive had a vermeer for 1 1/2 yrs now. Its a great machine. It saves a lot of time vs. bucking stuff up and picking up by hand.

Mine has tracks and if your not careful, you can tear up the yard.

also, the vermeer machine will pick up high enough to clear a 5' fence. Thats 60" in itself. I load a flatbed 1ton and I can load the middle of the truck even w/a load. there are some tricks involved, but they dont take much to figure out. I have even put stuff into a roll off dumpster before from the side and ben able to drop the bucket into the dumpster.

Sure, they are no full size, but for what they are, theyre awesome.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 15, 2008)

This grapple type is better then






this 






With the former, you can get longer peices through gates and tight buildings, and they go right into the chipper, with little horsing the loader around


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## arbor pro (Oct 15, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> This grapple type is better then
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But the latter cost only $400 and isn't used to load a chipper, rather, a dump trailer so it works just fine. It also picks up rakings and stump grindings. Can the former do that without switching attachments?

I'll agree that the former might get longer pieces through a gate or tight area better than my grapple but, for the range of what I use my mini skid for, the latter type works better. For someone who wants to feed a chipper, you might want to consider a $3k branch manager grapple or the like.

It all depends on what your purpose is. One type doesn't fit all applications.


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## treemandan (Oct 15, 2008)

Lets hurt it... so we know how much it can take.
CONS 
Don't try driving over small stumps. You will be stuck and go around in circles for about an hour and a half. Actually that might be good if you don't want to fork over the money to take the family to the CIRCUS.

If you go over a hump with a good load or to fast you get catapulted off the platform. Man what a rush!

It really won't "push" a whole lot of piled up stuff... at all, so don't try.

I think if you can save the money and just strap and drag branches ( a forte' of this machine) a grapple is just dead weight. You are not going to be able to lift it very high with one. I will post pics of the logs I moved. You have to take your time and you are more limited with the bullwork BUT the footprints it leaves SAVES big. I toss plywood down in turning zones and whatknot of course but mainly its just blow and go for clean up. I "stand" lawns and grass back up after we had flattened it. You can drive it over landscape beds and such with thin strips of plywood and not hurt a thing.I am making myself a little randy just talking about it. Those things are just so cute I can't help it


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## toddstreeservic (Oct 15, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> But the latter cost only $400 and isn't used to load a chipper, rather, a dump trailer so it works just fine. It also picks up rakings and stump grindings. Can the former do that without switching attachments?
> 
> I'll agree that the former might get longer pieces through a gate or tight area better than my grapple but, for the range of what I use my mini skid for, the latter type works better. For someone who wants to feed a chipper, you might want to consider a $3k branch manager grapple or the like.
> 
> It all depends on what your purpose is. One type doesn't fit all applications.




$400?!?? Tell me that is a msiprint.


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## treemandan (Oct 15, 2008)

I have been taking a lot of pics lately, mostly of my completely screwed up house but the yard is fine but like I said screw the expensive grapple. For crying out loud John Henry and Paul Bunyan would be turning over in their graves if they heard all us using all these machines. Here are some cheapies but tell me it ain't slick or don't work, Oh nevermind.

This toxic dump is what I meant about my house, car was totaled... I am gettin paid.






Here is the axle I threw together for logs I want to keep long and still have to get on through with it.





87 Chevy Celebrity front hub bearings and wheels. The car was owned by a lady who only drove it to church.





***** Nails, go ahead, I dare ya. Still luv ya but I dare ya. I said "threw together" and I say now... its still togther. I have had so many 16 and one half foot pople and oak trunks on that it would almost keep you busy splitting... it for a few days.


Uhh? a no- brainer?


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## treemandan (Oct 15, 2008)

That axle was actually the rear bumper of my 87 Chevota. It still has the dam brackets on it so it should fit on one of those trucks still. I kept the tube steel when I junked the trunk. Now ask me how many oak logs you can put on a toyota pick-up with a small block in it.


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## arbor pro (Oct 16, 2008)

toddstreeservic said:


> $400?!?? Tell me that is a msiprint.



Nope. The bucket came with the machine. I bought the 'thumb' grapple new online for $400 and have used it for 2 years with almost no issues. I had my brother-in-law notch out the toothed sides of the bucket to better grip larger logs and it works almost too good - sometimes hard to get them to release out of the bucket when dumping into the truck. I'd love to try out a branch manager or other types of grapples but, with the grapple I already have, I just can't justify the $3k price tag. 

What I'd really like to get for my machine is a 42" wide flat-sided bucket with a 36" flat bottom and a 36" grapple - basically, the same thing that you can get for a larger bobcat but made for a mini skid. I've yet to see exactly what I'm looking for but some are getting close...


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## arborworks1 (Oct 16, 2008)

You don't know what you are missing not having a bmg grapple. Imo, the bmg is what makes the mini worth having. So you have to switch the grapple for a bucket. Most times we can get everything swept up with the brush piles we are dragging with the mini. So maybe 3 -4 trash cans full. The bmg is only 2000 plus shipping.


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## treemandan (Oct 16, 2008)

arborworks1 said:


> You don't know what you are missing not having a bmg grapple. Imo, the bmg is what makes the mini worth having. So you have to switch the grapple for a bucket. Most times we can get everything swept up with the brush piles we are dragging with the mini. So maybe 3 -4 trash cans full. The bmg is only 2000 plus shipping.



No doubt a grapple hand is better than a human hand. I would get it if I thought it would really pay off. ITS THE BOMB! I think you can lift more actuall wood weight with lighter fork and its pretty stable. A average oak log just might be over safe capacity. I am not preaching safe by no means, ( I'm like " who cares" anyway) I just want to move longer logs that out- rate the machine. I reefer to these things as " mexicans you just keep strapped to the trailer at night". Now come-on, that's dam funny I know it is cause I am dying.
Just used old rope to hogtie the stuff, pile it on and tie the infamous Treemandan ( By the way, name's is NOT Dan) Clove on the Ball right to E'l Dingolator OR I just push the DAM chipper right in with it. You should have seen how we took this hill. Actually I think its better at pulling than pushing any thoughts?


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## treemandan (Oct 16, 2008)

If you tired to pick up a LOG with that one in red pic why I would think you would flip it into a chesseburger. Go ahead, stand on the back. Is nice though. With a data link you could program like an R2D2 unit. A remote would be nice, that's the thing. Just add a few hundred to the back platform and off you go.


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## Arbortec01 (Oct 29, 2008)

We rent the Ditch With SK650 from time to time and are planning on buying one next year. We've also used Deere and Case full size skids, the full size skids are amazing and can pick up a lot more weight per fork load, but we do a lot of residential work and can't get a full size into back yards, and you usually have to go so slow and easy so you don't tear up the lawn which can waste time. 
The Ditch Witch 650 is a great unit, the only problem we had was counterbalancing it when we pick up really heavy pieces of wood; it would be hard to fit more than two guys on the platform. My partner and I have both had it happen where we pick up a heavy peice of wood, say maybe about 1000 pounds, carry it very low to the ground over to the truck and then when you lift it up to load it, it tips, and they tip really fast if you're not taking it easy. So you just have to take it easy with big stuff. But I was very skeptical of the power that a mini could have until I used one. I mean in all reality you could do any removal with a mini that you could do with a full size, you just might have to cut the logs a little smaller. 
The only 'real' drawback I could see with a mini, other guys have already mentioned, they don't have anywhere near the reach that a full size has. But we want to use it with a dump trailer, so reach wouldn't be an issue. 
They are a lot easier to haul around than a full size.
The other thing I like better is that when you are moving a full size skid around in a tight back yard its hard to back up because sight is so limited from the cab of a skid. This problem disappears altogether with a mini. 
We were thinking of getting a bigger dump trailer and using the dump trailer to move both the wood and the mini skid at the same time, saving a trip or the need for a second trailer. We probably couldn't do that with a full size skid (if it could even fit in a dump trailer it'd take up too much space), does any use this sort of set up?


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## SLlandscape (Oct 29, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> This grapple type is better then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## squad143 (Oct 31, 2008)

SLlandscape said:


> John Paul Sanborn said:
> 
> 
> > This grapple type is better then
> ...


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## squad143 (Oct 31, 2008)

Arbortec01 said:


> We were thinking of getting a bigger dump trailer and using the dump trailer to move both the wood and the mini skid at the same time, saving a trip or the need for a second trailer. We probably couldn't do that with a full size skid (if it could even fit in a dump trailer it'd take up too much space), does any use this sort of set up?



I am currently using a tri-axle 7ton float. (See picture)

I have been looking into getting one of those dump trailers (see next picture) that has a 4' platform on the front (in front of the dump portion). I figure that I could load my chipper into the dump box and the mini-skid on the platform, drive to the job, unload the chipper and at the end of the job, tow the chipper behind the dump trailer. 

The issue I'm looking at is that, with a load of chips + the skid-steer and the chipper, I'm very close (if not over) exceeding my vehicle's towing capacity.

It is either that or buy a proper dump truck (Just have to convince the wife on that one). This is the route that I most likely will go with.


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## SLlandscape (Nov 1, 2008)

squad143 said:


> SLlandscape said:
> 
> 
> > That is a Bandit 65XL. I bougt it used (40hrs) last year (July 07) for $8,000 from a place near Chicago.
> ...


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 1, 2008)

squad143 said:


> SLlandscape said:
> 
> 
> > That is a Bandit 65XL. I bougt it used (40hrs) last year (July 07) for $8,000 from a place near Chicago.
> ...


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## Wismer (Nov 1, 2008)

squad143 said:


> I am currently using a tri-axle 7ton float. (See picture)
> 
> I have been looking into getting one of those dump trailers (see next picture) that has a 4' platform on the front (in front of the dump portion). I figure that I could load my chipper into the dump box and the mini-skid on the platform, drive to the job, unload the chipper and at the end of the job, tow the chipper behind the dump trailer.



You can't tow two trailers at the same time in ontario


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## squad143 (Nov 2, 2008)

SLlandscape said:


> squad143 said:
> 
> 
> > That's about what size I'm looking for. I don't have a chip box on my pickup or trailer but I know several people with dump trucks and loaders and etc. I can use. I'm assuming its maximum is around 6"-8". correct?
> ...


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## squad143 (Nov 2, 2008)

Wismer said:


> You can't tow two trailers at the same time in ontario



You can if you are commerical rated. Take a look at the transports with the pup trailers.


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## HolmenTree (Nov 3, 2008)

I got a Vermeer S400TX in the cards for next season.Really like the looks of the 2000 lb. little mini. Always had excellent service with Vermeer. I will have a Vermeer 36"wide horizontal brush grapple on it and have a homemade aluminum box insert to fit inside the grapple to haul stump mulch.The insert can be carried in the pickup truck when not needed. Now I would like to carry the mini mounted sideways on a ledge at the back of my trailer.My trailer is 6'-6" wide and the roughly 8 ft long machine with grapple would have about 9" overhang on each side, not a legal problem here in Manitoba.
The S400TX would make my tree service as complete as I would want it ,at a nice managable size especially in todays tough economic times.


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## treevet (Nov 11, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Lets hurt it... so we know how much it can take.
> CONS
> Don't try driving over small stumps. You will be stuck and go around in circles for about an hour and a half. Actually that might be good if you don't want to fork over the money to take the family to the CIRCUS.
> 
> ...



 I am with you treemandan except for the randy. Die over my dingo (and bobcat mt50)





This is how it gets loaded.


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## treevet (Nov 11, 2008)

Heres my 525 tx (diesel) "Dinger". Not sure how to post multiple picts. and I have one more after this. I think the uses for this are way under rated and the cost is drastically over rated. Paid about 24k for this and grapple and bucket.





Tilt trailer makes for easy on and off but I may go to loading on pick up or the following picture as I have the same chipper.


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## treevet (Nov 11, 2008)

Borrowed this from a post of Dave's at BMG.


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## squad143 (Nov 11, 2008)

Here's some pics of a removal we did last week with the mini.

Moving brush





Moving logs





Long slow drive from tree to loading site, so we decided to get creative and shorten our trips by half. Enabled us to pick up larger pieces as well. I'll have to remember this one.


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## woodchuck247 (Nov 11, 2008)

Vermeer all the way. But it is on the heavier side so i would not always haul it on a tandem landscape trailer (beet mine to hell). The Controls of the Vermeer work like a dream. The grapple, forks and a bucket is what I would get. But I like the compact size of the boxers and the retractable tracks for tight areas and getting through fence gates. Boxer also has a super small mini skid steer and it has no lack of power (And the plus is the light weight of the small boxer so no need for a big skid steer trailer). Controls decently but comfort wise I would go with the Vermeer.


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## squad143 (Nov 11, 2008)

treevet said:


> Borrowed this from a post of Dave's at BMG.



That's a cool way to carry your mini. Don't think I'll try it with my little Bandit 65xl though. LOL.


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## B-Edwards (Nov 11, 2008)

Wow Squad that is an awesome custom seat you have installed.


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## treevet (Nov 11, 2008)

Great for many things. 2000 lb plus man pulling a tree over on trax. 

Dave at BMG grapple just built a 38 horse powered stump grinder attachment.

I have tried the Dingo one and not real impressed.

The Dingo has 4 pumps and I don't think others do? The factory Dingo horizontal grapple lifts higher than the BMG.

I am about to order a BMG (better at other things) for my used Bobcat MT 50 mini I just lucked into in a deal. 

We will have a mini on each crew. Mine goes out pretty much every day.

You'll stop using up groundies, guaranteed.


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## capetrees (Nov 12, 2008)

Whats the Vermeer stx600 worth new? I see one in the mag for $18K, low hours, comes with Ryans grapple and bucket, wide tracks and Kubota diesel. Sound good?


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## treevet (Nov 12, 2008)

capetrees said:


> Whats the Vermeer stx600 worth new? I see one in the mag for $18K, low hours, comes with Ryans grapple and bucket, wide tracks and Kubota diesel. Sound good?



That sounds good but if it is "Treetrader" mag. it has been in there for 2 issues now and you gotta wonder why they cannot sell it locally and why it hasn't sold in one issue of the mag.

I am a skeptic tho and would rather spend a little more and buy a new unit. It may be a great deal. 

Narrow trax are a useful thing to have. Had mine thru a 35 inch gate and it did a days work that would have been all "hump". Also def get the diesel.


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## capetrees (Nov 19, 2008)

It was the one in that mag and I have seen it both times. Maybe due to the economy people are just scared to jump inot a purchase dso big. However, for those interested in a new Vermeer stx600, Vermeer northeast is running a yearend special for $16,800, brand new and comes with a loader bucket. I saw it today on a flier at the dealership buit was in too much of a rush to ask details. More to come if I can find the info.


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## HolmenTree (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the looks of Vermeers S400TX. At only 34.5" wide, 1950 lbs and lift capacity of 1430 lbs and working rate of 500lbs, this little guy can do alot of work and you can haul it in the back of your pickup.


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't want to go this entire thread but don't remember any discussion about.

I was wondering if anyone plows snow at all with a mini? We don't get enough snow around here to warrant a truck plow hardly but I have a couple of tracked mini's and they (BMG) sells a plow (power angle I think) and I already have a huge bucket. Do they get traction on snow? I don't mind the cold at all.


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## arbor pro (Jan 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> I don't want to go this entire thread but don't remember any discussion about.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone plows snow at all with a mini? We don't get enough snow around here to warrant a truck plow hardly but I have a couple of tracked mini's and they (BMG) sells a plow (power angle I think) and I already have a huge bucket. Do they get traction on snow? I don't mind the cold at all.



My mt-50 works ok on snow/ice. It has new tracks on it but there just isn't enough ground pressure to give it good bite. That's good when it's on grass but bad on snow/ice. Turning is the worst thing. In a straight line, it will push some snow but, try and turn while the bucket is pushed down onto the pavement or ice and it just spins the tracks. You have to take the pressure off of the bucket first before turning. 

I've wondered how a sweeper or blower would do on it but can't justify the cost of one for doing my own driveway. I really only use the bobcat when the snow is packed or if I have a plow windrow to clean up. I just use the 36" grapple bucket that I use for tree work. I need to buy a good bulk/mulch/snow bucket for it to haul stump grindings and push snow.


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

Thanks for reply Arborpro. I have an 03 MT 50 Bobcat that I picked up on a deal I couldn't pass up after I bought a brand new Dingo 520TX. I had noticed how traction wasn't so good on slippery surfaces and suspected it would not turn well on snow. I have a BMG on the Bobcat and the Dingo grapple on the Dingo (horizontal).

Try asking your distributor about used buckets. I bought the biggest mulch bucket for my Dingo used and got it for around $290. I think.


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

PS. Also I fabricated a plug in hitch plate so I can now tow my SC 630 A, my TW 5, conveyor, sprayer, and 2 trailers when the need arises. I also have a plug in LD for light stuff as the BMG had one built in for the Bobcat.


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## sawinredneck (Jan 27, 2009)

I have pushed snow (3") with the Thomas and standard bucket with ease. Maybe the tires make the difference?


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

Yeah, the tires would give a heavier footprint to grab a slippery surface?


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## arbor pro (Jan 27, 2009)

sawinredneck said:


> I have pushed snow (3") with the Thomas and standard bucket with ease. Maybe the tires make the difference?



How is turning when your bucket is pushed down and your front tires lifted up?


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## arbor pro (Jan 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> Thanks for reply Arborpro. I have an 03 MT 50 Bobcat that I picked up on a deal I couldn't pass up after I bought a brand new Dingo 520TX. I had noticed how traction wasn't so good on slippery surfaces and suspected it would not turn well on snow. I have a BMG on the Bobcat and the Dingo grapple on the Dingo (horizontal).
> 
> Try asking your distributor about used buckets. I bought the biggest mulch bucket for my Dingo used and got it for around $290. I think.



Having used both the BMG and the horizontal bucket or fork-type grapple, which do you feel works best for all around cleanup and loading of debris into a truck or trailer? I've heard that the clam grapples are nice for loading chippers but I'm wondering if they are better, worse or same for loading trucks/dump trailers...


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## Stein (Jan 27, 2009)

If you can't justify $15-20K for a new mini, you can build one of these with all new parts for $7K. Bigger than a mini, smaller than a bobcat. It's 48" wide so goes through most gates. Good winter project. It's 18 hp and normally wears a 48" bucket. It pickes up 500-700 lbs, depending on grapple or bucket (the bucket is heavy), articulates so it won't damage turf at all. I can do donughnuts in the lawn all day without damaging the grass a bit. One wheel can be 10" out of line with the rest. I climb over 8" logs while carrying a load all the time in the woods. No getting stuck on a log.

I've posted these before, but seems relavent in this thread.


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> Having used both the BMG and the horizontal bucket or fork-type grapple, which do you feel works best for all around cleanup and loading of debris into a truck or trailer? I've heard that the clam grapples are nice for loading chippers but I'm wondering if they are better, worse or same for loading trucks/dump trailers...



The clam lifts higher (and Dave at BMG admits that) but the swivel action of the BMC is much better for running brush into the chipper while pivoting IMO.

The clam gets a better bite and is not as likely to drop a piece because there is move surface touching the piece. I had built up sides on my dumptrailer and was having probs with the dingo getting over it but when I took then off it got much easier and not much capacity was lost because of stacking.


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)




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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

Stein said:


> If you can't justify $15-20K for a new mini, you can build one of these with all new parts for $7K. Bigger than a mini, smaller than a bobcat. It's 48" wide so goes through most gates. Good winter project. It's 18 hp and normally wears a 48" bucket. It pickes up 500-700 lbs, depending on grapple or bucket (the bucket is heavy), articulates so it won't damage turf at all. I can do donughnuts in the lawn all day without damaging the grass a bit. One wheel can be 10" out of line with the rest. I climb over 8" logs while carrying a load all the time in the woods. No getting stuck on a log.



Nice....AWD?


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

I added a tree ball mover implement this fall and double paid for it in one job. I was extremely happy. We had a slew of balled trees dumped on a campus, dug the holes with my large stump grinder, went over and pinched the balls (sounds painful but it is not..LOL) and just one man grabbed them, drove them at times a football field away over rough terrain and just dropped them right in the middle of the hole.






this is one of many plantings we did this fall.


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## sawinredneck (Jan 27, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> How is turning when your bucket is pushed down and your front tires lifted up?



It steers the same to me. Maybe reacts a bit quicker, and the front wants to "swing out" more so you need to be aware of what is around you.

The BMG just rocks! I love mine! The two things I have noticed that a regular grapple bucket would out shine it, other than the ones stated.
If you are not careful the beaks will tear a yard up quickly, leaving large divits of grass dug up. You can work around his with practice.

Picking up brush, the smaller stuff at least, having something under the brush and then clamp it, would work a lot easier and quicker.


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## Stein (Jan 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> Nice....AWD?



Yes. Four individual hydraulic wheel drive motors.

So that I don't muddy this thread, more info in the thread here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=85397


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## arbor pro (Jan 27, 2009)

sawinredneck said:


> It steers the same to me. Maybe reacts a bit quicker, and the front wants to "swing out" more so you need to be aware of what is around you.
> 
> The BMG just rocks! I love mine! The two things I have noticed that a regular grapple bucket would out shine it, other than the ones stated.
> If you are not careful the beaks will tear a yard up quickly, leaving large divits of grass dug up. You can work around his with practice.
> ...



That's why I'm leaning towards staying with a bucket-style grapple and maybe just getting a bigger mini skid so I can lift higher. I love it when I can bulldoze tree debris into piles without having to stack it first. I also like being able to pick up raking piles and stump grindings with the same grapple. I would; however, like to find an open-sided bucket that is longer and taller than my current open-sided bucket but still only 36" wide and a grapple that opens wider so I can pick up bigger brush piles. Weight has never been a problem when picking up brush but sometimes I can't get my small grapple around big piles and have to pull them apart.

Basically, I want a HD flat-sided grapple like you'd get on a big skid steer but only 36" wide - in other words, take a 72" flat-sided bucket with a double grapple on it and cut it and half and make it fit a mini skid. You'd end up with a bigger 36" grapple than the one I have on my machine now. It would be heavier but that would be ok for most of what I do. Does anyone know of such a grapple on the market already or would it be a custom job?


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

It is always gonna be a give and take between size and capacity with these things. Add cap. and you lose balance/increase tip. Also your footprint obviously is heavier, and if you work on golf course quality lawns like I do around here, you know what I mean. 

No comparison between the Dingo and the Bobcat in finesse on a lawn. 
Dingo wins every time. It has 5 pumps so is much smoother in general too while weighing in at about 2k and less than 35" wide (got thru 35" gates numerous times. ). It is a FAR superior machine.


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## treevet (Jan 27, 2009)

Just to show you I got one.


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## Brush Hog (Jan 29, 2009)

I am very tempted to buy one but I also do landscaping and think I could find a used skid steer for that price. I would need the height of the skid to load a sander though. I have used one at my house and it did a fine job and one with a grapple would be priceless. Like others said "all equipment has it's limitations".


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## sawinredneck (Jan 29, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> That's why I'm leaning towards staying with a bucket-style grapple and maybe just getting a bigger mini skid so I can lift higher. I love it when I can bulldoze tree debris into piles without having to stack it first. I also like being able to pick up raking piles and stump grindings with the same grapple. I would; however, like to find an open-sided bucket that is longer and taller than my current open-sided bucket but still only 36" wide and a grapple that opens wider so I can pick up bigger brush piles. Weight has never been a problem when picking up brush but sometimes I can't get my small grapple around big piles and have to pull them apart.
> 
> Basically, I want a HD flat-sided grapple like you'd get on a big skid steer but only 36" wide - in other words, take a 72" flat-sided bucket with a double grapple on it and cut it and half and make it fit a mini skid. You'd end up with a bigger 36" grapple than the one I have on my machine now. It would be heavier but that would be ok for most of what I do. Does anyone know of such a grapple on the market already or would it be a custom job?



Close to what you asked for, it's toothed, and 27", decent price, maybe a little high.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MINI-SKID-STEER...ryZ50908QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Edit, here is a flat one, but pricey!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/MINI-SKID-STEER...ryZ50908QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## treevet (Jan 29, 2009)

Very nice deal.


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## arbor pro (Jan 30, 2009)

It looks shorter in both height and length than a 72" skid steer grapple. I'd have to see some specs on the grapple opening from bottom of bucket to top of grapple when fully opened but, I'm guessing it's quite a bit less than the opening on a full-size skid steer grapple. For loading logs, I don't need a real big opening but, for loading brush and stump grindings, I want just as big of opening as the full-sized skid steer grapples.

I think I'll just end up having one of the manufacturers in my area custom build one. Most of the mini grapples on EBay don't fit bobcat brand anyways so I'd have to modify the attachment plate to begin with.


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## B-Edwards (Jan 30, 2009)

Stein said:


> Yes. Four individual hydraulic wheel drive motors.
> 
> So that I don't muddy this thread, more info in the thread here:
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=85397



Stein, that thing is neat! I really like that . I would put some kind of rollbar on it just incase. Maybe a break down model like on small tractors or mowers. But overall it looks great. I have a dingo (tires) and love it. I am thinking of making tracks for it maybe out of chain and weld cross bars to them. I have seen these for sale on-line. I already have the spacers to move the wheels out for tracks.


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## treevet (Jan 30, 2009)

Anybody use the huge auger attachments for planting trees? Seems like you would need pure soil for it to work and not get stopped by substantial rocks.

Also, how about snow throwers. Do hydraulics have the same problem they do with stump grinders in not enough capacity?


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## capetrees (Jan 30, 2009)

I used a friends mini with a rented 20" auger for some sono tubes and the auger dug fairly well. It doesn't like stones and rocks over 4-6" and just bumps off of them and goes in a different direction slightly. 

As far as running the snowblower and stump grinder, check whats required of the attachment before you use it with any machine. The machine will have the output at the attachment couplings listed somewhere and should be compatable with whatever you run.


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## pdqdl (Jan 30, 2009)

Stein: that thing is begging for a roll cage !

I'm sure you haven't worried about it, but done right, it would not only be much safer, it would add a lot of strength to your lifting capacity and to the life of your center pivot .

1. Add a roll bar to the front vertical towers that support the loader frame.
2. Build a support cage onto the rear axle from some really strong point.
3. Tie them together in the middle with a pivot _exactly_ above the center pivot below. The pivot should probably be built with similar materials to the lower pivot.

This will add strength to the frame and will protect from rollover.

Naturally, this idea won't work if your center pivot is more complex than a single vertical axis. I can't tell from the pictures.


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## treemandan (Jan 30, 2009)

So Treevet, you have 2 Dingos and 1 bobcat mini? What are you hooked? I use mine to plow sidewalks and such as well. I just have a small lawn tractor plow on it.
The drive link on my snow blower broke ( I never used it anyway) and was thinking of just tying it to the Dingo if I needed.


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## treevet (Jan 31, 2009)

treemandan said:


> So Treevet, you have 2 Dingos and 1 bobcat mini? What are you hooked? I use mine to plow sidewalks and such as well. I just have a small lawn tractor plow on it.
> The drive link on my snow blower broke ( I never used it anyway) and was thinking of just tying it to the Dingo if I needed.



No, treeman, I bought a brand new Dinger in the summer, then I ran into a deal I couldn't pass up on the Bobcat in the fall. I think I can use them both.

Got any picts of plowing? Yeah I am hopelessly hooked (not ashamed of it either). The wife..............or the Dingo......?????


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## treemandan (Jan 31, 2009)

treevet said:


> No, treeman, I bought a brand new Dinger in the summer, then I ran into a deal I couldn't pass up on the Bobcat in the fall. I think I can use them both.
> 
> Got any picts of plowing? Yeah I am hopelessly hooked (not ashamed of it either). The wife..............or the Dingo......?????


 I don't think I have a pic.
Its just a Crapsman tractor plow , manual anglle of course, welded to square tubing that fits inside of the A frame WHICH in this pic I have the tongs in right now and am moving this here tree.








This plow I built for small truck, manual angle, and the winch raised and lowered it. It worked allright... then I tossed it in a heap. 







I am going to ressurect it by cutting everything off the original blade which is pretty much what's now left. I did work allright... then I tossed it in a heap.
This blade is pretty heavy compared to the crapsman which is lighter than my 3 year old. 
I need to re-spring the crapsman so its a little less likely to fold but its great for residential walks. I was think of welding a long broom to the top of the blade so I could flip the whole thing, maybe a rubber strip?
I don't think you are gonna wanna put a very big blade, certainly not wide, on these things especially the ones with traks. It wouldn't be enough to really move it without beating the machine and by then you might as well use the Myer's.
Certainly these little loaders have kept me in this bis in more ways than one. Not only that its use around the house is helpful. I am looking to make a firewood rack I can fill and bring in weekly. Something that I can drive right into my house and unload real quick.


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## treemandan (Jan 31, 2009)

treevet said:


> No, treeman, I bought a brand new Dinger in the summer, then I ran into a deal I couldn't pass up on the Bobcat in the fall. I think I can use them both.
> 
> Got any picts of plowing? Yeah I am hopelessly hooked (not ashamed of it either). The wife..............or the Dingo......?????


 I don't think I have a pic.
Its just a Crapsman tractor plow , manual anglle of course, welded to square tubing that fits inside of the A frame WHICH in this pic I have the tongs in right now and am moving this here tree.








This plow I built for small truck, manual angle, and the winch raised and lowered it. It worked allright... then I tossed it in a heap. 







I am going to ressurect it by cutting everything off the original blade which is pretty much what's now left. I did work allright... then I tossed it in a heap.
This blade is pretty heavy compared to the crapsman which is lighter than my 3 year old. 
I need to re-spring the crapsman so its a little less likely to fold but its great for residential walks. I was think of welding a long broom to the top of the blade so I could flip the whole thing, maybe a rubber strip?
I don't think you are gonna wanna put a very big blade, certainly not wide, on these things especially the ones with traks. It wouldn't be enough to really move it without beating the machine and by then you might as well use the Myer's.
Certainly these little loaders have kept me in this bis in more ways than one. Not only that its use around the house is helpful. I am looking to make a firewood rack I can fill and bring in weekly. Something that I can drive right into my house and unload real quick.


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## treevet (Jan 31, 2009)

I like the look of that widetrack more than mine. Did you fabricate that surrey?

How about just the big mulch bucket for bringing the wood in the house?

These things are so sweet. Planting trees used to be a backbreaker didn't it.


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## treemandan (Jan 31, 2009)

treevet said:


> I like the look of that widetrack more than mine. Did you fabricate that surrey?
> 
> How about just the big mulch bucket for bringing the wood in the house?
> 
> These things are so sweet. Planting trees used to be a backbreaker didn't it.



No, it came with it, it folds up and down. Yeah, Wide rubber rules. I don't understand the skinny ones.
I had a four foot bucket and I almost can get the same amount of wood in a barrow and then still have to re-stack on the shelves. I figured I would make a wood shelf I could pick up and take out then bring back in loaded and put it in the garage by the wall where its next stop would be the stove. Its a lot of work getting home as it is.
You could probably dig a 4x4 hole with a toothed bucket pretty good but I still have yet to get a set of teeth for mine so I use this.








Once again it just slides into the receiver. maybe ten minutes to dig and prep a hole. Its a little of a pain switching from pick - axe to bucket but ...
I have not used the aux. hydraulics on mine. I just welded draw bars what I thought would be useful. I don't use it much but the york rake is cool for some things, that's a little heavy, you can't pick that up.
My fav is the forks ( I keep calling them tongs), I don't see the need for a grapple bucket whatsoever, unless they are handing em out for free one day.
















I have had no problems with the forks, I have picked up bigger stuff than that. The forks are stronger than the machine it seems. They will hold more than it can lift or handle safely. These locust logs were a snap.


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## treemandan (Jan 31, 2009)

don't make fun of the ladders on the truck, I use them stupid chit like taking a wire of the house and pole pruning. In fact I usually just drive the truck under what I need to get and just stand on that. Or I do this


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## treemandan (Jan 31, 2009)

naah! I moved it, finished the cut and RAN !


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## treevet (Feb 1, 2009)

That pick ax attachment you made is pretty neat. We been using the stump grinder to dig holes. That implement that holds the earth auger is real expensive. Not sure how well the set up works either. 

I got the narrow track and it went thru few gates that wouldn't have been gotten thru with the big one. But we would have had less tipping on some embankments with the wide one. I guess that is why they make 2 models.

I love this thing so much I want to pull it into the basement and watch tv with it. haha


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## treemandan (Feb 1, 2009)

treevet said:


> That pick ax attachment you made is pretty neat. We been using the stump grinder to dig holes. That implement that holds the earth auger is real expensive. Not sure how well the set up works either.
> 
> I got the narrow track and it went thru few gates that wouldn't have been gotten thru with the big one. But we would have had less tipping on some embankments with the wide one. I guess that is why they make 2 models.
> 
> I love this thing so much I want to pull it into the basement and watch tv with it. haha



I have gotten inside every gate so far, sometimes they have to come down anyway but I haven't met a gate i couldn't pass or a walkway, deckway, landscape bed... I guess the mention of craning it in was,umm, mentioned before. That would be easy, safe and fun, really no sweat at all. Just do it right or you are going to regret it, you'd need the right chains. 
I can wheel my 4500 pound chipper up and into some places that would fry the clutch on the tree truck, at least lose all the mirrors. When you get it back like that somtimes you just chip into the air, now you just saved more money by not running to dump. If you do it right chipping like that is great.
Covering roots for protection is minimal, most lawn repair is blowing the track marks out of the grass.
With these machine you have to take your time with for sure. I take larger logs, just slower. I don't want to add real heavy apparatuss on it for lifting logs. It reduces the ammount of log you can pick up quick. A fullsize grapple would just grapple at some of the logs you can move with forks, it wouldn't pick them but if they could they would be even more teetery. These machine have there limits which are not that great when it comes to lifting.


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 1, 2009)

treemandan said:


> naah! I moved it, finished the cut and RAN !



I see you're wearing some of those " paper thin miracle fibre" saw pants and clear lucite safety helmet.

All the newbies get hammered for no PPE, so BOHICA baby. (bend over here it comes again)


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## MNClimber (Feb 1, 2009)

I have a s250 and use it often but it just cant fit in a lot of place. So this last year I bought a mt52 and I'm not sure how I ever got around without it. I still need to build myself a set of those forks like treemandan though. What these little machines can do amazes me every time.


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## pdqdl (Feb 1, 2009)

Hey Dan! 

Why cut that tree so high off the ground? Did you run out of saw, or ground to drop it on?


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## lostcoastland (Feb 1, 2009)

Heres the one i ran for about a year. didnt do much tree work with it but we mixed cement in the bucket moved bads of cement, rock, drilled h oles. And here is the 3' trencher pretty much a dirt chainsaw for waterlines.electric.


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