# Steep slope harvester



## StihlKiwi (May 24, 2014)

This is becoming a thing in NZ, machinery capable of working on the steeper ground.
Curious to know if anything like this is being developed in the 'other' hemisphere.

http://www.climbmax.co.nz/#!/splash-page

I'm aware of the fallers not liking harvesters thing, just interested too know if the concept is purely local thing or if it's catching on.
The ClimbMax is supposedly good for 50 degree slopes, the stuff I don't even like to do plots on


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## KiwiBro (May 24, 2014)

StihlKiwi said:


> This is becoming a thing in NZ, machinery capable of working on the steeper ground.
> Curious to know if anything like this is being developed in the 'other' hemisphere.
> 
> http://www.climbmax.co.nz/#!/splash-page
> ...


Yeap, seen some steep slope harvesting/forwarding online somewhere in Europe. 
Did you see the tarzan robot engineering project:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9859457/Tree-felling-robot-nabs-design-award

A long way to go but interesting approach.


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## StihlKiwi (May 24, 2014)

KiwiBro said:


> Yeap, seen some steep slope harvesting/forwarding online somewhere in Europe.
> Did you see the tarzan robot engineering project:
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9859457/Tree-felling-robot-nabs-design-award
> 
> A long way to go but interesting approach.




Yea, I was at at uni with a couple of those guys, some serious thinking outside the box there.

There's 3 ClimbMax's working in the bush now, some brave operators out there


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## northmanlogging (May 24, 2014)

They have some self leveling machines out here, not sure what their max slope is, but I've seen em on some steep dirt, Timbco comes to mind, maybe one of the tiger cat machines. Luckily for most of the cutters left they still can't work on most of the ground around here.


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## northmanlogging (May 24, 2014)

Here ya go, I've seen em on steeper, but this gives ya an idea.


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## slowp (May 24, 2014)

You can go on steep stuff with those Timbcos, but you can't reach out very far. I had quite a discussion with a very good operator.
He said that the self leveling sometimes lets you forget how steep the ground is (a bad thing) and yes, he tipped one over. He is the one who mentioned not reaching very far on steep ground. He was working on steeper than I thought he could work on, and slipping at times on rocks. That was a poorly planned sale. The steep ground was designated as skidder ground and the gentle ground was designated as helicopter ground. Somebody got mixed up, I guess.


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## kentishman (May 24, 2014)

These exist, pretty amazing.


This is just scary


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## Samlock (May 24, 2014)

Winch supporting a conventional harvester


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## kentishman (May 24, 2014)

I think this is the best one. Can you imagine these things clinging to the side of a mountain? Can you imagine operating one?! Not that I'm all for having these machines, as a hand cutter myself.


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## bnmc98 (May 24, 2014)

kentishman said:


> I think this is the best one. Can you imagine these things clinging to the side of a mountain? Can you imagine operating one?! Not that I'm all for having these machines, as a hand cutter myself.




looks like a hydraulic nightmare, better have a good warranty

we work some pretty steep ground with our timberjack that has the engine mounted in the chasis not above. good low center of gravity.


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## Gologit (May 24, 2014)

StihlKiwi said:


> I'm aware of the fallers not liking harvesters thing, just interested too know if the concept is purely local thing or if it's catching on.



Logging machinery is constantly evolving. It has to be. From a production point of view mechanical harvesters make sense. The limitations now, as you know, are timber size and steep ground. Each year those boundaries are pushed farther. I see harvesters working on ground now that the older machines never would have attempted.
As time goes on and the machinery gets better the day will come when all cutting is done with machines and the chainsaw will be a toy for hobbyists and firewood cutters. With the technology advancing as fast as it is and the pressure to keep production levels high it's inevitable.

I'm glad that I won't be here to see that day.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 24, 2014)

IDK Bob, my grade buyer hates disc saws........says he has to trim off at least 2-3' to get back where the fibers not seperated.

plus i ain't seen one yet to handle sticks in the 60" class and 10,000lbs.


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## Gologit (May 24, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> IDK Bob, my grade buyer hates disc saws........says he has to trim off at least 2-3' to get back where the fibers not seperated.
> 
> plus i ain't seen one yet to handle sticks in the 60" class and 10,000lbs.



Wait, that day will be here before you know it. I look at how far advanced today's equipment is over the stuff that was state of the art in the 60's when I started and it just amazes me.
I can't help but believe that the equipment 20 or 30 years from now will make today's stuff look like something from the dinosaur age. It's a natural progression. We don't have to like it, and most of us don't, but it's coming.

Now, that being said...the day that the sound of the last big saw fades away, the day that a guy with a tin hat, 'spenders, calks, and a hickory shirt is replaced by a machine, and the day that brains, skill, stamina and pure guts are replaced with a soulless computer driven piece of machinery will be a sad one indeed and another piece of our unique history will be lost forever.

You younger guys will feel like the old sailing ship hands when the first steamships appeared on the horizon. And you'll either adapt or get out. There aren't any other choices.


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## northmanlogging (May 24, 2014)

Meh, economics will balance out eventually, Hard to believe the small jobs will be done mechanically. Granted the big cuts are going more mechanized every year, I blame this largely on the ingenuity of loggers... to smart for or own good...


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## OlympicYJ (Jun 5, 2014)

Never do the kind of stuff they do with the Climbmax here. There is too much disturbance. Remember in NZ they don't have the regulatory environment we do here. As I understand it it is due to the plantations being on old farm ground and burned over areas.

Once machines can hover so there is no disturbance than everything will be mechanized but no matter how steep or how much you can get a machine to level doesn't mean it will be allowed or should be allowed to be used. I think we're pretty much at the max for now. If I remember and understand correctly DNR (may only be their ground) has a 45% slope cut off for shovels. Now they have allowed some exceptions for the new Tigercat leveling shovel. I should have some pics of one soon working on job pre-bunching fell and buck for the yarder. Need full suspension so nothing longer than 40 ft. Not much equipment this yr. Mostly down in some brush hole hanging flagging and paint. It isn't too bad. Had fun on the flat but swimming through the scotch broom was no fun. Found two bees nests too! Gonna be a bad yr for em I'm thinkin.


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## wowzers (Dec 10, 2014)

A self leveling TigerCat machine has made an appearance over here and the owner told me it was rated to 60% slopes! I saw it working on some dang steep ground but have no idea the actual slope.


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## Skeans (Dec 10, 2014)

Weren't the old Allied Washington feller buncher set up for steeper ground?


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## SliverPicker (Dec 10, 2014)

My Timbco cab can be leveled in a nose forward position at up to (I believe) 24 degrees (about 53% slope). Get on some rocks and geezle on to a good sized tree out to one side or the other when its that steep and you might be in the market for some new undies.


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## Skeans (Dec 11, 2014)

Has anyone seen one of these work? I'm too young and have only seen the one at camp 18 and one on a lowboy with the cab off?


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## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

No, but that is one interesting outfit. I just don't see mechanization taking hold here either. We are supposedly the "Hardwood Capital of the World" but almost all logging out fits around here are gypos (myself included) A big outfit might have two or three skidders a knuckleboom (or excavator) a larger (750 size) dozer and a couple of tandems or a semi. The vast majority of gypos (myself included  ) Run one skidder, a smaller dozer, a loader (tractor, track loader or knuckleboom) and one or two single axle trucks. I have never understood why things have not progressed past that here.............


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## Odog (Dec 11, 2014)

Kind of the same concept, just in excavation. We had a blasting job in sun valley a few years ago, to blast the pads for gondola tower footings on the ski hill. Anyway it was a 1 1/2:1 - 2:1 slope, pretty steep. I had a d8 winch cat lower my drill down and hold while I drilled the pads. After we shot, the contractor had a "spider hoe" crawl up the hill and dig out the pads. It was damn ugly, but cool at the same time. A 150 size john Deere hoe with 6 spider legs, he used his bucket amd those legs to just walk up the hill. Never saw anything like that before


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

The tigercat I've been told by an operator can level up to 55% slopes. I've watched one build a coldeck for the yarder 172 Madill on 50% slopes. It was quite impressive. I should put a picture up. Give me a few mins.

I know some have gone fully mech back east but personal opinion is that alot of the hardwood is a little on the big side for mech and you still need a saw for the tops. I've never worked back east but that's just my guess.


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## Gologit (Dec 11, 2014)

OlympicYJ said:


> The tigercat I've been told by an operator can level up to 55% slopes. I've watched one build a coldeck for the yarder 172 Madill on 50% slopes. It was quite impressive. I should put a picture up. Give me a few mins.
> 
> I know some have gone fully mech back east but personal opinion is that alot of the hardwood is a little on the big side for mech and you still need a saw for the tops. I've never worked back east but that's just my guess.



Good post. I don't know anything about eastern logging either but I wonder if the lack of mechanization has to do with volume? It takes a huge amount of timber to pay for all that machinery. If you were working a bunch of smaller sales it might be hard to keep all that equipment earning? Out here we're looking at multi million bf sales on a regular basis and mechanization makes sense.Matter of fact...much as I hate to admit it... it's absolutely necessary.. Back there? Dunno.
Maybe the back east boys can give us some insight.


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## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

A big sale around here is a million feet. And that is almost unheard of. Clear cutting around here is rarely done as well (unless repurposing land) no pulp market. I don't know the limits of the machinery but I would say my AVERAGE dbh is in the 20"ish range maybe a little more. With the majority of logging here being select cuts in hardwood stands, smaller tracts (the one we are on now is about 100,ooo bf) and the steep, rocky ground I see why. It just ain't fair though!  We have no company ground, a few loggers do contract with some of the mills on sales, but that is the extent of "company loggers".


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Git you make a good point that I forgot to include! When you have tons of volume and small branches to limb you don't want to deal with that with a saw. Hell even in thinning if it needs to be bucked it still gets limbed by a processor most of the time anyways.

20" is right in the sweet spot for some of the medium large processing heads like LogMax 7000 or a Waratah 624C. Processing requires lots of wood to withstand the cost. A new processor with a new carrier will run $750,000 pretty easily and about the time you get it paid off it's worn out and requires lots of maintenance and you can't afford the downtime so most guys buy a new one. The best way to drive the cost down is buy a new head and put it on a carrier that has been shovel logging for the last 6-7000 hours and is experiencing stress cracks and other wear associated with that sort of rigorous use. Processing on a landing is much easier on the machine and they can get more useable life out of it that way.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Well here are some pics of a Tigercat LS855C leveling shovel. This subcontractor has 3 of these and one is outfitted with a Waratah processor head and has the buncher motor in it. This particular one is serial number 2 if I remember right. There are only about 20 of these worldwide and this particular operator had trained some ops from Chile not too long before this job. These guys have serial numbers 1, 2, and 4 I believe. Serial number 3 is working in Idaho and probably the one Wowser saw working. I saw that particular machine brand new at the Oregon Logging Conference and again on a job site near Elk River, Idaho.

Sorry this isn't actually in the post. Been a long time since I put a picture up.


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## Gologit (Dec 11, 2014)

Wes, that's another thing about mechanization that I forgot to throw in. It's real easy to have five million bucks worth of equipment on a side. What you said about them wearing out about the time they're paid for is absolute gospel. They sure don't stay new very long. Then you have choices, keep hammering on the old stuff and keep patching it back together and hope the down time doesn't ruin you...or take a big deep breath and buy some new stuff.

It's a constant balancing act, old versus new, and I can see why guys hesitate to take the plunge. The work better be there to support all those payments on new stuff and the old machines can just absolutely murder you with downtime. I always figured downtime was the worst thing to have but I had to remind myself of that when I was writing those checks out every month on the new, but rapidly aging, equipment. 

If I have another life after this one I want to be a bank.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

I'm getting a handle on the whole financing vehicles thing. The fiance bought a new car over thanksgiving and I'm going to be buying a new truck for work come January. Luckily I got a signing bonus with a monthly stipend/mileage so basically they are buying me a truck that I own and can use anytime I want lol. I should probably do a post about the whole job thing. Gonna be an exciting year next year.


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## 1270d (Dec 11, 2014)

The banker actually came out to the bush when our new processor was delivered in October. interesting afternoon, cutting with the bank in the back seat. 

I talked with some guys this summer who run the wheeled harvesters on steep ground somewhere in coastal OR. Up to 70% he said. I believe they contract for miller timber


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## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

I know that I operate on a completely different scale than other more experienced hands hare do, but I have seen the "downtime is a killer" thing first hand. When I started in this business I had to make the decision between older equipment and knowing there would be repairs and down time, or newer equipment and payments........ I have seen the good and bad of both sides. Keeping enough work in front of me to make payments, not to mention working around the weather has always scared me. But I am getting to the point where I am tired of laying under equipment (in the mud) with a flashlight in my teeth trying to get things going for the morning, and it is costing me money when I cannot get stuff fixed by daylight. It doesn't happen too often, but often enough. Just paying my dues I suppose. We just do not have the volume and high grossing jobs that you all have out west. Makes it tougher, and easier all the same I suppose.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Well if anyone would be doing it wheeled it would probably be Miller. He's the Ponsse dealer and does lots of thinning so the guy probably worked for him. They had to winch or else it was a short break and they just rode it to the bottom. The outfit I worked for last summer has a thinner employed almost year round if not year round and I wanna say sometimes he'd get on a 50% straight up and down the hill and he had to be yoyod. 45% is about all he can do normally.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Oh and one of those tigercat levelers costs about 800 grand. They aren't cheap but cheaper than a full yarder crew. By having that cold deck it saved em a road change or two and the riggin crew loved it. They got excellent production out of piece. There was a crick at the bottom we had to fully suspend the logs over and we couldn't build a landing at the top as all that reprod was Weyerhauser.


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## sw oh logger (Dec 11, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Good post. I don't know anything about eastern logging either but I wonder if the lack of mechanization has to do with volume? It takes a huge amount of timber to pay for all that machinery. If you were working a bunch of smaller sales it might be hard to keep all that equipment earning? Out here we're looking at multi million bf sales on a regular basis and mechanization makes sense.Matter of fact...much as I hate to admit it... it's absolutely necessary.. Back there? Dunno.
> Maybe the back east boys can give us some insight.


Many of the logging jobs here in the midwest,the hills of Kentucky,W.va,Tn., etc. can often be small enclosed areas of 5,10 or 15 acres, but with some very valuable white oak and walnut veneer, and other good grade logs--many of these '"woods" as they are often called are on farms, near buildings or houses. Also, as Gologit and others have stated, the value compared to the expense of that type of machinery will always leave a place for the smaller logger as KY Logger stated. These guys are just trying to make a living--many years when I still had all my own equipment and my own company I would gross $40,000 to 80,000/yr. with one other employee at the most. Even now at nearly 66 yrs. old, I still do all the cutting for my brother and his business partner, and can hardly keep up with other people wanting me to cut for them also. All smaller scale but it's a good, honest living, and people are constantly calling us to look at their trees.


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## wowzers (Dec 12, 2014)

Thats the same machine I saw. There are two in Idaho I think. One had a bar saw type harvester head that you could bunch with, then it swang back out of the way and you had a grapple to shovel with. The other I saw was just a straight shovel machine.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 12, 2014)

Unfortunately they had blown a hose and we couldn't watch it work.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2014)

sw oh logger said:


> Many of the logging jobs here in the midwest,the hills of Kentucky,W.va,Tn., etc. can often be small enclosed areas of 5,10 or 15 acres, but with some very valuable white oak and walnut veneer, and other good grade logs--many of these '"woods" as they are often called are on farms, near buildings or houses. Also, as Gologit and others have stated, the value compared to the expense of that type of machinery will always leave a place for the smaller logger as KY Logger stated. These guys are just trying to make a living--many years when I still had all my own equipment and my own company I would gross $40,000 to 80,000/yr. with one other employee at the most. Even now at nearly 66 yrs. old, I still do all the cutting for my brother and his business partner, and can hardly keep up with other people wanting me to cut for them also. All smaller scale but it's a good, honest living, and people are constantly calling us to look at their trees.





Gologit said:


> Good post. I don't know anything about eastern logging either but I wonder if the lack of mechanization has to do with volume? It takes a huge amount of timber to pay for all that machinery. If you were working a bunch of smaller sales it might be hard to keep all that equipment earning? Out here we're looking at multi million bf sales on a regular basis and mechanization makes sense.Matter of fact...much as I hate to admit it... it's absolutely necessary.. Back there? Dunno.
> Maybe the back east boys can give us some insight.





KYLogger said:


> A big sale around here is a million feet. And that is almost unheard of. Clear cutting around here is rarely done as well (unless repurposing land) no pulp market. I don't know the limits of the machinery but I would say my AVERAGE dbh is in the 20"ish range maybe a little more. With the majority of logging here being select cuts in hardwood stands, smaller tracts (the one we are on now is about 100,ooo bf) and the steep, rocky ground I see why. It just ain't fair though!  We have no company ground, a few loggers do contract with some of the mills on sales, but that is the extent of "company loggers".





KYLogger said:


> I know that I operate on a completely different scale than other more experienced hands hare do, but I have seen the "downtime is a killer" thing first hand. When I started in this business I had to make the decision between older equipment and knowing there would be repairs and down time, or newer equipment and payments........ I have seen the good and bad of both sides. Keeping enough work in front of me to make payments, not to mention working around the weather has always scared me. But I am getting to the point where I am tired of laying under equipment (in the mud) with a flashlight in my teeth trying to get things going for the morning, and it is costing me money when I cannot get stuff fixed by daylight. It doesn't happen too often, but often enough. Just paying my dues I suppose. We just do not have the volume and high grossing jobs that you all have out west. Makes it tougher, and easier all the same I suppose.


yes......lol..........well Bob pretty much nailed it. here the big boys do production in plantations with wheeled bunchers mostly. there are a few track machines........no ctl here, i don't think the ground would hold it.
i am specialized in that i log more like the guys in the appalations. it was how it used to be done here as we can grow huge valuable hardwood of all kinds. there are still landowners that manage for good hardwood and that is my niche. like ya said, it takes volume to pay for that stuff.
i move about 1 million feet yearly, mostly hand cut but i use a bell on occasion. i also do alot of critical area work the big outfits won't mess with.
one thing i am curios about in the west, all this talk of cutters out there, i thought y'all had big connifers..........how do they cut big timber? most of what i cut a machine has no business attempting to cut.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 12, 2014)

Some bunchers can cut a pretty big stick by double siding it. If it's too big for that the fallers come in and mop up. Too steep for the machine it's faller ground.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2014)

i watched a guy go all the way around a big poplar with the big tigercat wheel cutter..........then a dude with a saw tryed to finish the cut while the cutter pushed..........yea they busted it all to chit.......that was stupid to me, i coulda put it down with no damage in less than a minute. it wsan't even good pulp when they got done.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 12, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i watched a guy go all the way around a big poplar with the big tigercat wheel cutter..........then a dude with a saw tryed to finish the cut while the cutter pushed..........yea they busted it all to chit.......that was stupid to me, i coulda put it down with no damage in less than a minute. it wsan't even good pulp when they got done.


Did you ruin any wood when you were learning the limits of yourself and your gear? Heck, I still kick my own arse when I ruin wood, which is often, I'm afraid. I am just thinking if they were experienced and still screwing it up, might be worth putting someone else in control of the multi hundy thou dollar equipment, but if they learnt a lesson they won't repeat in a hurry, then maybe the ruined wood was a price worth paying.


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## Gologit (Dec 12, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> one thing i am curios about in the west, all this talk of cutters out there, i thought y'all had big connifers..........how do they cut big timber? most of what i cut a machine has no business attempting to cut.


 
The big stuff is still cut by hand. There just isn't as much of it as there used to be. A lot of what a faller does now is cutting what a machine can't handle or get to. With the advances in machinery and technology that gap is narrowing all the time. There doesn't seem to be a lot of younger guys wanting to be fallers any more...not if they've been around the industry at all and understand the trends. A young guy starting out right now probably won't be able to make a full career as a faller unless he's extremely well connected and has a lot of luck. Right now there are always more fallers...dependable, experienced and skillful...than there are jobs. I don't see that ever changing.
I work mostly with one major timber company and they're heavily into plantation style reprod with a short cutting cycle. That makes for smaller timber and opens the door to mechanization. 
I've seen jobs where you couldn't hardly find a choker or a chainsaw anywhere...just a lot of big machinery. I didn't care much for it.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2014)

KiwiBro said:


> Did you ruin any wood when you were learning the limits of yourself and your gear? Heck, I still kick my own arse when I ruin wood, which is often, I'm afraid. I am just thinking if they were experienced and still screwing it up, might be worth putting someone else in control of the multi hundy thou dollar equipment, but if they learnt a lesson they won't repeat in a hurry, then maybe the ruined wood was a price worth paying.


they weren't newbs, they didn't care.......to them it was just somthing to slow them down.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2014)

Gologit said:


> The big stuff is still cut by hand. There just isn't as much of it as there used to be. A lot of what a faller does now is cutting what a machine can't handle or get to. With the advances in machinery and technology that gap is narrowing all the time. There doesn't seem to be a lot of younger guys wanting to be fallers any more...not if they've been around the industry at all and understand the trends. A young guy starting out right now probably won't be able to make a full career as a faller unless he's extremely well connected and has a lot of luck. Right now there are always more fallers...dependable, experienced and skillful...than there are jobs. I don't see that ever changing.
> I work mostly with one major timber company and they're heavily into plantation style reprod with a short cutting cycle. That makes for smaller timber and opens the door to mechanization.
> I've seen jobs where you couldn't hardly find a choker or a chainsaw anywhere...just a lot of big machinery. I didn't care much for it.


i don't like it niether......in fact, i'd say it is the worst thing that ever happened to the woods, at least around here. now whats happened localy is there is only one major pine mill now so they control the price. pulp is the same and not worth hauling.
if the grade hardwood and tie markets go, its all over.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 12, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> they weren't newbs, they didn't care.......to them it was just somthing to slow them down.


Did they own and/or pay directly for the gear they were running and their time?


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2014)

help i'm sure


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## KiwiBro (Dec 12, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> help i'm sure


Maybe I was brought up a little differently than most, but if I ever did something that was driven by neglect rather than a genuine mistake, I always expect to pay the costs of that. I had it taken out of my pocket money, then wages, then insurance deductibles, etc. A little thing called personal responsibility. Dad may have been a hard bastard but he was consistent.

That said, if someone I hired was costing me money through sheer neglect, they'd get the choice of paying the cost through deductions in their wages, or finding another job. If I couldn't employ people I trust, I'd do it myself or find another niche where I could be a sole operator self-employed, or go work for someone else. I'm not talking a mistake. We all make those and it's just something we have to budget/insure for.


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## slowp (Dec 13, 2014)

Gologit said:


> The big stuff is still cut by hand. There just isn't as much of it as there used to be. A lot of what a faller does now is cutting what a machine can't handle or get to. With the advances in machinery and technology that gap is narrowing all the time. There doesn't seem to be a lot of younger guys wanting to be fallers any more...not if they've been around the industry at all and understand the trends. A young guy starting out right now probably won't be able to make a full career as a faller unless he's extremely well connected and has a lot of luck. Right now there are always more fallers...dependable, experienced and skillful...than there are jobs. I don't see that ever changing.
> I work mostly with one major timber company and they're heavily into plantation style reprod with a short cutting cycle. That makes for smaller timber and opens the door to mechanization.
> I've seen jobs where you couldn't hardly find a choker or a chainsaw anywhere...just a lot of big machinery. I didn't care much for it.



There may be a lot of "fallers" around but I've heard there is a shortage of good ones. One of our local guys is in the good category. He gets paid a bit more that most so commuting long distances to work for people who want him, pays off.

One lesson on steep ground for machinery is you might get those machines up on steep ground, but you mustn't reach out with them. You have to work close to the trees to keep from toppling over. A very experienced operator here told me that he learned the hard way. The self leveling cabs will also let you forget about the steepness of the ground and give a false sense of security. He learned that lesson also. He worked kind of like the eastern guys. He ran a processor around in the woods and cut to length.
They used a grapple cat for skidding. 

Then there is the feller buncher. They do a good job, but they leave trees whole. That can lead to some scarred up leave trees during skidding in thinnings. I had problems with one outfit. The next sale they hand felled and did much better with the skidding.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 13, 2014)

How are you guys logging that a self levelling feller buncher is "new tech"? We had 2 for a while, sold the Timbco not long ago, needed about $25k of hydraulic work... leaked bad too (like 4-5 gals a day).
Have the Timberjack still. 8.3L Cummins powered, which sits down in the frame.
I'm not sure on the max slope, but I do know it has no trouble on hills that aren't very comfy to drive on with the skidders.


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## Gologit (Dec 13, 2014)

slowp said:


> There may be a lot of "fallers" around but I've heard there is a shortage of good ones.




Good point. There are still a lot of good fallers around but there are fewer every year that make a good living at it. Some of the best ones I know have left logging completely.
One thing about it, the faller's skills are more on display now than ever before. If a guy isn't any good it will show up quicker and get more attention.


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## Skeans (Aug 27, 2015)

slowp said:


> There may be a lot of "fallers" around but I've heard there is a shortage of good ones. One of our local guys is in the good category. He gets paid a bit more that most so commuting long distances to work for people who want him, pays off.
> 
> One lesson on steep ground for machinery is you might get those machines up on steep ground, but you mustn't reach out with them. You have to work close to the trees to keep from toppling over. A very experienced operator here told me that he learned the hard way. The self leveling cabs will also let you forget about the steepness of the ground and give a false sense of security. He learned that lesson also. He worked kind of like the eastern guys. He ran a processor around in the woods and cut to length.
> They used a grapple cat for skidding.
> ...


An old post but they do make a fixed processor head there's a few here in the Pacific Northwest, mainly Fabtek 2000 that did up to 20" and then you'll see the quadco that could do up to a 24".





The biggest bonus is you have full control of the tree like a buncher and process 40' in the woods with ease. We have one of these heads working in NW Oregon if you're interested in seeing it.

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## Gologit (Aug 27, 2015)

Skeans said:


> An old post but they do make a fixed processor head there's a few here in the Pacific Northwest, mainly Fabtek 2000 that did up to 20" and then you'll see the quadco that could do up to a 24".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No thanks. I know they're the wave of the future and all that but I think I'll pass. That's nothing against you. A guy has to make a buck and I understand that. It's just that every time I see one of those damn things it reminds me how many guys it put out of a job.
Yeah, I'm old.


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## Skeans (Aug 27, 2015)

Gologit said:


> No thanks. I know they're the wave of the future and all that but I think I'll pass. That's nothing against you. A guy has to make a buck and I understand that. It's just that every time I see one of those damn things it reminds me how many guys it put out of a job.
> Yeah, I'm old. [emoji23]


It's all good, we mainly use it in 20 year old stands thinnings if it gets too large I still get to go fire up the saw and remember why I love being out on the ground so much.

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