# Stump Grinding prices??



## Marquis

Just wondering what you guys use for pricing stumps, how many $$ per inch?? Just putting in a bid for a big job, and not sure how much to charge per inch. Need help ASAP. THX


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## ddhlakebound

If you don't know how much to charge for the job, you should probably do it for free....

I mean, you'll get loads of experience, which you obviously need, and the next time you bid, you'll have an idea of what your equipment will do, and how much you need to make. 

Sorry for the somewhat snide reply, but AS has been flooded lately with people who recently cashed in a trust fund and want to get in the tree business, or inherited all their uncles gear when he passed. They heard him talking about treework all the time, so they're qualified too....


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## Marquis

No worry about the sni remarks, been doing it for a while, but always go by the stump, and not the inch. The bid I am doing is wanted by the inch, so that's why I ask. And no, I didn't inherit anything at all, just 2 college degrees in forestry, 8 years in the forest industry, and some studying on my own, with no onebody's help.


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## ddhlakebound

If you know what your cost for the stump is, measure and divide. There's your price per inch.


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## gr8scott72

Marquis said:


> No worry about the sni remarks, been doing it for a while, but always go by the stump, and not the inch. The bid I am doing is wanted by the inch, so that's why I ask. And no, I didn't inherit anything at all, just 2 college degrees in forestry, 8 years in the forest industry, and some studying on my own, with no onebody's help.



Well, with all that experience, what do your jobs typically come out to on a per-inch basis?


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## STLfirewood

Around here it is $3 an inch. But if the job is big some disount can be given depending on how many inches. To bad I can't go to the Bunny Ranch and pay by the inch.  

Scott


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## coolbrze

Most small guys charge $5.50 here. I average way above that though. I go by the stump not by inch. A 15" hard locust will take a lot longer than a 36" rotten pine...


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## mckeetree

If I ever get on here and start asking what to charge, what to say ,how to act, where to put my ad, etc. etc. etc. I hope one of you stops by here and has me put away somewhere.


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## ropensaddle

mckeetree said:


> If I ever get on here and start asking what to charge, what to say ,how to act, where to put my ad, etc. etc. etc. I hope one of you stops by here and has me put away somewhere.



Waco ain't too far pard and I will help ya out


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## (WLL)

3-4 dollars per sq. inch. i dont know what the big deal is in helping others out with questions there are plenty of trees for everyone!!


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## tomtrees58

$ 5 and inch here on L I tom trees


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## Slvrmple72

STLfirewood said:


> Around here it is $3 an inch. But if the job is big some disount can be given depending on how many inches. To bad I can't go to the Bunny Ranch and pay by the inch.
> 
> Scott



They may cut you a check!


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## mckeetree

(WLL) said:


> 3-4 dollars per sq. inch. i dont know what the big deal is in helping others out with questions there are plenty of trees for everyone!!



Well the site is called arboristsite not arborstarters. Why don't you start a site for guys starting out brand new that can't figure out what to charge. Or for ones that claim to have been in it for a long time and don't know what to charge. Or what to pay their help. Or if they need help. Or what time they need to get up in the morning. Or even if they should tell their boss to stick it and start their own little deal.


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## ddhlakebound

(WLL) said:


> 3-4 dollars per sq. inch. i dont know what the big deal is in helping others out with questions there are plenty of trees for everyone!!



hmmm.....

so you're claiming that you charge between 235 and 314 dollars for a ten inch diameter stump? 

after all, a ten inch diameter stump has 78.5 square inches of wood, and you charge 3-4 dollars per square inch....

I don't mind a bit helping people who ask intelligent questions. But when someone doesn't even have the experience to know how much to charge, blindly asks "how much do you charge".....well that's open season....here's why. 

What I charge or what anybody else here charges is totally irrevelant to what this guy needs to charge to be able to get work, and be profitable. 

Only he knows how long a job will take with his crew and equipment. Only he knows what his daily/weekly/monthly expenses are. Only he knows....on and on and on. 

So asking us what we charge is simply a misguided attempt to correct his problem. (Not knowing how to calculate his bid based on labor, expenses, and profit.) 

BTW....when I first got my stump grinder, the first job I did was for free, so I could get a little experience with the machine, and get an idea of what I needed to charge to make money with it.

And if I tried to charge $3-4/ square inch, I'd never have to grind a single stump.


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## OilHead

$ 150.00 minimum charge & thats a competive price others charge much more .


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## Curbside

Charging by the inch is a sure way to get burned on very large and very small jobs. If someone phones you up and says what's it cost per inch for a stump and you say 3.00 an inch and he says oh good I got a 3 inch stump come and do it. Of course you quantify that with a minimum charge. Like wise if you have a 80" stump charging 3.00 an inch will end up ripping yourself off as the larger the stump the more surface area of wood you have to grind. 

As far as the question goes on this thread impossible to say what I would charge per inch for this quote without seeing the job. I would expect to see the job and find out how many stumps their are. I would want a measurement on each stump because that can end up being very subjective and if you have 2000 stumps and your customers measurement is one inch different than yours on each stump that can add up to a fair amount of money. So once the questions are answered as to the size of stumps and is the job to be done in one day or is it fragmented, is it all in one area, what machine are you going to use, who else might be bidding on it and what machines they might be using, what the terrain and ground conditions are like? Come up with your price and then divide it by the inches that the customer claims the job is. 

Large stump jobs can get pretty low per inch because if you have a large self propelled machine its not impossible to do a 1000 10" stumps in a day.


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## rbtree

Interesting how so many of you have trouble comprehending what is involved in stump grinding. Set prices per inch don't work.

The variables need to be accounted for. They are: depth to grind..which should be specificed. Is there a mound that will need grinding? Surface roots? Or all roots above a certain level?

And, as far as charging per inch, the reason that is a formula for trouble is shownthis example:

A 10 inch stump has 78.56" squared, a 20 inch stump 314.14. Twice the diameter, 4 times the area....And, don't forget the depth variable.

My sub has a Rayco RG50, a sweet machine, fast, but expensive, with a lot of maintenance needs. The most recent job he did for us was a couple of 18-20 inch stumps, a 30 inch pine, and a 36-38 inch fir (with an embedded steel fence post that took some extra time to maneuver around and free up) He charged $625, which is about $6 per inch, i reckon. I think he was there only 2-2.5 hours. With that machine, and in our area, he is able to make great hourly income. Perfectly warranted, methinx. 

I have an Alpine Magnum, which will grind on any hill, or tight spot--88 pound Husqvarna 3120 powered. I have to do a lot of digging to save the fragile, easily dulled teeth, but once it gets to grinding, it's is quite fast, as long as the teeth are in good condition. I try to get $150-200 per hour for using it.


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## cantcutter

Around here I have been quoted 3.00 and inch. I have four stumps in my yard to be ground one is 50", one 32" and the other two are old bedford pear stumps in the 8" range. I had a guy come out and quote me $120.00 to do all four so I don't know how they calculate an inch, but its alot cheaper than 3.00 an inch.


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## Curbside

cantcutter said:


> Around here I have been quoted 3.00 and inch. I have four stumps in my yard to be ground one is 50", one 32" and the other two are old bedford pear stumps in the 8" range. I had a guy come out and quote me $120.00 to do all four so I don't know how they calculate an inch, but its alot cheaper than 3.00 an inch.




Well I wouldn't want to be operating a stump grinding business in your area a guy would go broke for that kind of price. Seattle sounds more reasonably priced for stump grinding.


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## gr8scott72

Curbside said:


> Well I wouldn't want to be operating a stump grinding business in your area a guy would go broke for that kind of price. Seattle sounds more reasonably priced for stump grinding.



Prices around here are as low as $1 an inch. Katrina really drove the prices down.

The only good thing is there are NO rocks here at all. I've only broken 5 teeth in over 60 hours of grinding.


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## Hexa Fox

I know this is old but there are some people here with a crappy attitude. Both beginners, professionals and people in between are going to linger here. I would say that more people here are people seeking advice so this site (like myself) is made up of people close to "Arborstarters" or below professional/commercial grade. 

Anyway I also have no clue what rbtree is talking about. The only real way to give an estimate is by inch in diameter across the longest portion of the stump since they all obviously do not grow even. Now with that in mind if you look at a job and see that more has to be done like surface roots or the trunk has not been cut close enough to the ground you need to add and extra charge. You will probably want to trim the stump as close to the ground as you can get it with a chainsaw before you even think about grinding on it.

Also I agree with the others that say you need to charge a good deal of money for this service. However it is common to give good discounts for people that have more than one stump. Because good commercial stump grinders range roughly anywhere between $40,000-$100,000. I am contemplating investing in a John Deere 3720 with a Woods TG50 Stump Grinder on it. This is around a $20,000 investment for the used tractor and new grinder. It works just as well as the commercial grade stump grinders but I would never expect it to cut the stumps as fast, as deep, or as many that a machine that cost that much money is made to do. 

I mean you're telling me that people are charging a dollar per inch of stump? If you have a real stump grinder and not the little rototiller like garbage you see at HomeDepot you will never pay off the equipment. Each inch you grind would make you one dollar towards your grinder that cost a minimum of $20,000? Who is going to grind 20,000 inches of stump to pay off that machine? 

Now back to the extra charge for extra work. If you go to a job and the stump is not cut close enough to the ground you need to tell them that you need to charge extra because simply you will need to cut the stump closer to the ground before grinding. Then you ask if they want the surface roots ground up as well. If it is bad (mower hitting it, people tripping on it, eye sore, etc) then they probably will. You just tell them that it is going to cost them a little more because your charge is based on the inches of the trunk only and as long as it is close enough to the ground.


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## foggysail

gr8scott72 said:


> Prices around here are as low as $1 an inch. Katrina really drove the prices down.
> 
> The only good thing is there are NO rocks here at all. I've only broken 5 teeth in over 60 hours of grinding.




GEEZ, THAT'S ALMOST FREE!!!


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## Hexa Fox

ddhlakebound said:


> hmmm.....
> 
> so you're claiming that you charge between 235 and 314 dollars for a ten inch diameter stump?
> 
> after all, a ten inch diameter stump has 78.5 square inches of wood, and you charge 3-4 dollars per square inch....
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mind a bit helping people who ask intelligent questions. But when someone doesn't even have the experience to know how much to charge, blindly asks "how much do you charge".....well that's open season....here's why.
> 
> *That is why you would come here looking for a good place to start. By saying open season you pretty much label your self an @$$. Especially since you directed it at the poster.*
> 
> What I charge or what anybody else here charges is totally irrevelant to what this guy needs to charge to be able to get work, and be profitable.
> 
> *Agreed, but exactly what I just said. He is/was trying to get a good idea of where to start. *
> 
> So asking us what we charge is simply a misguided attempt to correct his problem. (Not knowing how to calculate his bid based on labor, expenses, and profit.)
> 
> *"a misguided attempt"? Ha-freaking-larious. Did you ever think that he was not asking people to correct his problem but as I said twice already looking for a place to start?*
> 
> BTW....when I first got my stump grinder, the first job I did was for free, so I could get a little experience with the machine, and get an idea of what I needed to charge to make money with it.
> 
> *I don't get it. I respectfully and firmly agree that doing a job for free can gain you some good needed experience, which is called an amateur by the way. Now what it can not give you is a really good idea of how to charge. You did not learn about your competition at all. All you know is how long it took you the first time you did it and that is it. However by coming here he could learn a little bit about what other people charge and at least have an idea. *
> 
> And if I tried to charge $3-4/ square inch, I'd never have to grind a single stump.
> 
> *I don't understand? I did not read the original quote but I think they meant per square inch in diameter across the stump. Which it doesn't matter rather the tree was 10 or 100 inches. If I an not getting at least $3.00 per inch in diameter it is not worth me turning the key on my equipment. Especially since a lot of jobs will require me loading up my equipment and towing it to the location first.*


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## foggysail

It costs money to run a business. Equipment, insurance, taxes both state & federal, bookkeeping, storage space, office space and the list goes on. And if the OP has no clue to any of the operating expenses......well.....he ain't gonna get his smarts in a public forum! OH and I forgot to add that somewhere in the mess there should be a PROFIT!


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## Hexa Fox

foggysail said:


> GEEZ, THAT'S ALMOST FREE!!!





foggysail said:


> It costs money to run a business. Equipment, insurance, taxes both state & federal, bookkeeping, storage space, office space and the list goes on. And if the OP has no clue to any of the operating expenses......well.....he ain't gonna get his smarts in a public forum! OH and I forgot to add that somewhere in the mess there should be a PROFIT!



Good point. Just remember that everyone starts somewhere, and for some people that somewhere is here. The people that come here looking for advice like myself should not be slandered by negative comments.

Just keep in mind this guy did NOT come here asking the community to start his business for him. He asked a simple question about how he should go about charging for stump grinding. Which by the way is how I came about finding this forum.


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## foggysail

Yes, everyone has to start somewhere and even with careful planning, careful bidding, good equipment and so forth, his first start could be his last.

Running a business has risks. I own apartments now and there are plenty of risks there. Earlier my business partner and I did new construction with a direct payroll for up to 20 employees. I am not trying to be rude but have you ever had to meet a weekly payroll for a crew plus pay workers comp insurance, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, state & fed payroll taxes and state license fees be it permits or whatever states can rip out of your wallet? And the expense lists goes on for needed things such as material and subs.

If these things are not well planned, the business most likely will be an expensive disaster.


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## chief116

Buddy, you're arguing with a nearly 6 year old post.


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## Hexa Fox

foggysail said:


> Yes, everyone has to start somewhere and even with careful planning, careful bidding, good equipment and so forth, his first start could be his last.
> 
> Running a business has risks. I own apartments now and there are plenty of risks there. Earlier my business partner and I did new construction with a direct payroll for up to 20 employees. I am not trying to be rude but have you ever had to meet a weekly payroll for a crew plus pay workers comp insurance, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, state & fed payroll taxes and state license fees be it permits or whatever states can rip out of your wallet? And the expense lists goes on for needed things such as material and subs.
> 
> If these things are not well planned, the business most likely will be an expensive disaster.


No I have not. My late grandmother and grandfather own houses and apartments that they rent out in VA. I have never dealt with the people that take care of them that they pay but know a little about it. Definitely a good business to be in but from working with my grandfather know it does not come without it's challenges. 

I go to school for Information Systems Security and I make my living off of mowing grass, cutting down trees, spreading mulch, etc. There is no one job that I target. However as of late there are a growing number or people wanted to have their stumps removed. I figure I could never afford a full on commercial stump grinder nor would I want one. As I know the set-up I want would be more than adequate for what I am doing. My little side business has treated me much better than any job around here. Plus I like to be outside and I like learning about hydraulics, chainsaws, tractors, and the like. It sure beats stocking produce at a grocery store and barley getting paid anything.


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## Hexa Fox

chief116 said:


> Buddy, you're arguing with a nearly 6 year old post.



Nothing ever dies on the internet sir. Some of the users here just got under my skin.

My point is like a lot of people here and I am guessing not like a lot of others I started at the very bottom and have worked my way up. Nothing was given to me and every bit of experience and equipment I have was earned from me working and learning. There was nothing in between. My name around here locally means a good deal and that is good enough for me. I have good all around experience and love what I do. That is all I need.


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## Hexa Fox

My point is if I did not charge for the first time I did a lot of jobs I would have nothing. I have learned from my mistakes and by asking and reading I have learned a good bit of what to charge for what job. I have been mowing grass for over a decade now and I still have no clue what to charge people. Because it depends on a huge variety of factors. I can sometimes mow two whole acres before mowing 0.75 acres depending on terrain/obstacles. 

A couple years ago I took in a job of cutting down a old rotting tree. I gave the estimate based on what I knew which I found out was extremely accurate. However what I ignorantly failed to think about was the tree was rotting so a lot of it was like dirt. Which everyone on here should know dirt and chainsaw chains do not mix. Well I already knew that but I overlooked the fact that the tree was so rotted in some parts I was going to be cutting dirt almost literally. Long story short it was a mistake and I should have charged more. Lesson learned for next time.


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## tidy

So when people are talking "per inch" they are talking diameter? If that's the case its pretty astounding that a unit primarily used to measure distance is being used where really what guys need to measure is volume (surely depth of grind is going to be relevant to a client)


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## climbhightree

Exactly. If the client is going to plant grass, we usually grind to a depth around 6" (below level ground). If in a flower bed, 8-10"...if they plan on planting another tree 12-18". I don't see how pricing per inch accounts for that. Or for rocky ground, stump access, surface roots, metal. If you are adjusting the price, for the above things, you are no longer pricing per inch...so then what are you basing it on?? 

And if you tell the customer, it is by inch..they go out and measure it and think it is going to be this price..then you completely change it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## tidy

^ also, how do you agree on where to measure? plenty of stumps will be one foot tall with a final cut diameter which is way less than the actual base at ground level and root flare etc. Per inch pricing sounds like a total disaster...


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## Hexa Fox

tidy said:


> ^ also, how do you agree on where to measure? plenty of stumps will be one foot tall with a final cut diameter which is way less than the actual base at ground level and root flare etc. Per inch pricing sounds like a total disaster...


I think the only way to charge is by inch. Think about it. Are you going to charge by hour? My equipment is more than adequate but might take longer. So if I have to grind up several stumps I might spend a day on the job and make $2,000. Where as a commercial company might only make $200 if they have a piece of equipment that is solely for stump grinding. 

Like I just wrote if the stump is not near the ground or root flare like you said then you have to tell the customer. Sir/Ma'am I am going to have to charge you XX because your stump needs to be closer to the ground before I can use my grinding equipment on it. I think it is the only way to go.


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## Hexa Fox

Plus having the tree cut close enough to the root flare is a total disaster as well. Because is it a 10" or a 60" and what kind of wood is it, where is it? So under any circumstances it would be difficult to have a solid guideline on what to charge.


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## Hexa Fox

climbhightree said:


> Exactly. If the client is going to plant grass, we usually grind to a depth around 6" (below level ground). If in a flower bed, 8-10"...if they plan on planting another tree 12-18". I don't see how pricing per inch accounts for that. Or for rocky ground, stump access, surface roots, metal. If you are adjusting the price, for the above things, you are no longer pricing per inch...so then what are you basing it on??
> 
> And if you tell the customer, it is by inch..they go out and measure it and think it is going to be this price..then you completely change it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk



Well first off you are right pricing per inch will not account for the depth you have to cut. The Woods TSG50 grinder I am targeting can only cut to a maximum depth of 16" but cost around $4,000. 

Good information though. I mean you just need to be honest with the customer. If they say what can I expect to pay either give a *Free Estimate *(like I always do) after you know what the customer wants and have seen the job or *Be Specific *and tell them that if the stump is around 10" expect to pay at least $30.00. Plus you have to ask if there are any surface roots they want removed or if the terrain is hilly/uneven. Plus you have to let them know that this does not include anything you may run unexpectedly run into like rocks. I live in West Virginia guys and I have never ran into a customer that did not understand this. This is why the Free Estimate and note the word Estimate is the best route. 

You just have to say that the inch in diameter is based on say the best case scenario where the situation is ideal for you and your equipment. It does not have to be hard. I will probably say that I will ground it up 6"-8" below surface level and anything else we will have to work something out. Based on the conditions.


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## foggysail

A plumbing company that I know that has an office & trucks along with a crew charges 1 hour minimum just to go to your house. Their labor rate is $125/hour, doubled for emergency off hour calls plus the customer pays for one way travel time. Foxy--- you have an equipment investment plus skills, liability insurance, truck expenses plus many more costs. Your rate is IMHO way too low. Another comment, you should have a written agreement that clearly states those things you are going to do along with those things that you are not going to do. There you can have "awe shucks" contingencies (change of scope) where the customer has to agree in writing to additional charges as soon as an unforeseen problem arises. Customers sometimes are quick to say.." I didn't agree to that!" A written agreement is a contract. Does not need to be elaborate, just something that clearly states what it is you are going to be responsible for. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Just trying to provide positive suggestions.

Foggy


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## Hexa Fox

foggysail said:


> A plumbing company that I know that has an office & trucks along with a crew charges 1 hour minimum just to go to your house. Their labor rate is $125/hour, doubled for emergency off hour calls plus the customer pays for one way travel time. Foxy--- you have an equipment investment plus skills, liability insurance, truck expenses plus many more costs. Your rate is IMHO way too low. Another comment, you should have a written agreement that clearly states those things you are going to do along with those things that you are not going to do. There you can have "awe shucks" contingencies (change of scope) where the customer has to agree in writing to additional charges as soon as an unforeseen problem arises. Customers sometimes are quick to say.." I didn't agree to that!" A written agreement is a contract. Does not need to be elaborate, just something that clearly states what it is you are going to be responsible for. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Just trying to provide positive suggestions.
> 
> Foggy



Totally agreed that is why I said a minimum of $3.00 per square inch. Since I have little experience stump grinding and have never actually operated the equipment first hand I would probably charge around $3.50 per inch in diameter. I already know of several people in my neighborhood that want stumps removed. Two of them are neighbors and the stumps are both about 30". They are on a flat even surface and should be good experience and easy work for my new equipment. Now if I grind both of the up at $3.50 that equals to be about $210.00. That is a great start. 

However I agree with you that is not going to pay for a $4,000 stump grinder nor the $10,000+ used tractor I need to run it. Providing positive criticism and suggestions is exactly what you are doing Foggy and it is appreciated by me. I need all the information I can possibly get. Which is why I got upset about the other people with the less than positive attitude.


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## Hexa Fox

I did not want to post this before but I have never been insured or paid other people. I thought about getting the insurance this year. However, I do not know if you know but basic Arborist Insurance here in Charles Town, West Virginia is around $1,000 a year. This does NOT include insuring equipment, other people, etc. This only insures you. Which it does not raise it too much but will obviously raise it. Plus after you pay for insurance you will obviously need to acquire a business license and pay taxes. Which I have avoided... for the past decade... Then again like I said I have done so many different jobs having insurance for everything would not have been worth it.


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## Toddppm

10 years and you still don't get it. No ins., no license, not worth it? ! It's called the cost of doing business. Half the people that posted in this thread don't even post anymore. I kind of want to help you but you don't seem to want any real advice?  How is it good for the customer if somebody with the right equipment only needs to charge $200 and your wrong equipment will cost them $2,000???


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## Toddppm

BTW was Marquis Tree from Maine, the original poster, the company I'm thinking of just trolling back then???


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## jefflovstrom

Toddppm said:


> BTW was Marquis Tree from Maine, the original poster, the company I'm thinking of just trolling back then???



Yeah, and he asked ASAP,,lol,,,by the hour, 1 hour minimum.
Jeff


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## Hexa Fox

Toddppm said:


> 10 years and you still don't get it. No ins., no license, not worth it? ! It's called the cost of doing business. Half the people that posted in this thread don't even post anymore. I kind of want to help you but you don't seem to want any real advice?  How is it good for the customer if somebody with the right equipment only needs to charge $200 and your wrong equipment will cost them $2,000???



I don't think you get it. Respectfully I do not mean that in a offensive way. All I was pointing out is that I would believe (in my opinion) that you would be better off charging by the inch in diameter across the stump rather than by the hour. Because simply this is going to bring everyone in the business near the same estimate. 

Also I do not know where you got your assumption that I did not want advice. I just told Foggy before you posted that his positive criticism and opinion was much appreciated. I do not know if you went back and read some of the other comments from a while back but they are pretty unnecessary. I would not consider my self a beginner but I am far from a professional/commercial business. That is why I am here often, to seek aid. 

Now I welcome your opinion (and everyone else's) with open arms. The more information I have before investing in a piece of equipment the better off I am. Just if you can't be respectful I rather not have your advice.


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## Hexa Fox

jefflovstrom said:


> Yeah, and he asked ASAP,,lol,,,by the hour, 1 hour minimum.
> Jeff


I also did not see that but people could have just ignored it. The guy came here for advice and got slapped in the face by some of the members.


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## Hexa Fox

Toddppm said:


> BTW was Marquis Tree from Maine, the original poster, the company I'm thinking of just trolling back then???



I mean do what you want. I do not know about you but I live in a free country.


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## Hexa Fox

Now let me clarify really fast. 

One of the users that ticked me off the most said that it would be a grand idea to do some work for free to get some well needed experience and learn what to charge. Let me tell you guys what I think is terribly wrong with this.

1.) It may give you experience but is only going to give you an idea of what you would like to charge. Not what your competition is charging. So by coming here even though the idea is going to be a little rough because of location he is still going to have a rough idea of what to charge.

2.) Customer #1 tells potential Customer #2 that you did the work for free and did a great job. Customer #2 expects you to come in and do the work for little or nothing because of treatment Customer #1 got. This is a prime example of your business being ruined before you start. I have seen this *a lot. *There is a guy around here that plows our development out in the Winter time. Now people have gotten very upset with him because he does not charge his friends to have their driveway plowed. This is a problem because he charges everyone else and people got to talking and found out. Well now a lot of his business is forfeit because of that. It only takes one person to ruin your business.

3.) You have a very expensive piece of equipment and made nothing. Even though you are just starting it is still a bad idea.


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## jefflovstrom

How in the world do you offer a service and don't know what to charge? 
Jeff


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## Hexa Fox

jefflovstrom said:


> How in the world do you offer a service and don't know what to charge?
> Jeff


I don't know ask they guys that posted before. I always have a decent idea of what I want for a job. However if you have never done something before how would you know what to charge? To answer I would not offer a service unless I could come up with a figure in my head. To come up with a figure in your head you should know what you're getting into and what someone else would charge for a similar job. A lot of people here have no idea and that is why they should be here. To get good advice from people that do know.


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## BC WetCoast

You don't seem to understand the process. When you charge by the diameter inch, you may do ok on the smaller stumps. But say you get called to do a 10" stump, you will make $30 (@$3/in). Yah, the stump will only take you 5 min to grind, but you got mobilization (find parking, off the trailer, set up plywood barriers, move the machine) and cleanup (rake and blow, put machine back on trailer, put plywood away) and collect cash. So now you're at about 1/2 hour. Now what if that same stump is in the backyard behind a rhododendron shrub and you have to get through a gate. You got to pull the duallys off, wiggle the machine through the gate and into the backyard, wiggle the machine around to miss the rhodo etc etc. Now you're at 1 hour for the same $30. 

Now the size issue, obviously you have forgotten your high school math (see you should have paid attention). As the diameter increases, the surface area increases by exponentially (pi X r^2), hence the volume you have to grind increases. If the stump doubles in size, the volume to grind increases by 4. 

You need to view and price every stump based on access, grinding time, mob/demob time, cleanup time and potential damage such as rocks.


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## tidy

^ as stated above the mathematics behind per inch diameter pricing is totally flawed, there is no consistency in your earning as it only measures distance in a straight line, you are grinding volume not distance remember. To work out a rate you need to work what the machine costs to run per hour and go from there, if your are running a business then your rate should also include your labour, overall business expenses plus profit. That's not to say that you must charge per hour-more that you have a target for what you are turning over hourly on average and you price the work according to your estimate on time taken.
Minimum call outs are a must also, its bad business to bring a 7000lb machine worth $4000.00 to someones house and be happy to charge only $25 because the stump was only 8".


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## Hexa Fox

BC WetCoast said:


> You need to view and price every stump based on access, grinding time, mob/demob time, cleanup time and potential damage such as rocks.



I totally agree. I already mentioned this. It was part of "where is it at". This is great advice for the original poster who wanted a lot of information real fast. Anyway maybe there are both positives and negatives to charging by hour. Do not take this the wrong way but there are a lot of good reasons here not to use the by inch method. However what I do not see is a solution. Except for this here. 

I found that in my area a lot of people want to know, know, know, before you even come out or they may call someone else. I always, always, always push to see the job so I can give an accurate estimate. As I said my job would have a minimum if I had to tow it somewhere. I would however try to get in as much work as possible with it right in my own neighborhood. This is good advice though because to pay for the equipment I am at some time going to have to tow it out of the neighborhood.


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## Hexa Fox

Just like I mentioned before I would say that I would like to see the job first before giving any kind of estimate. One thing that is true around here is there are a lot of older folks who still treasure the value of a dollar. They think that they can get a lot of work done for a little bit of nothing. It is not my fault and is not their fault. They lived in a time where a $20.00 bill was more than adequate for having the neighborhood boy mow their grass. So when you pull up and give them a $250.00 estimate to grind up a stump you might just give them a heart attack. 

This is part of my plan. I am not familiar with stump grinding equipment. All I know is what I know from the internet, word of mouth, and YouTube. Which is honestly a great start. I am going to do the work around my neighborhood based on what I know and by then I will have a set plan for what I want to make to be profitable. I will have some money in my pocket and hopefully be able to venture out beyond my neighborhood.


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## Topbuilder

Hexa Fox said:


> I don't think you get it. Respectfully I do not mean that in a offensive way. All I was pointing out is that I would believe (in my opinion) that you would be better off charging by the inch in diameter across the stump rather than by the hour. Because simply this is going to bring everyone in the business near the same estimate.
> 
> Also I do not know where you got your assumption that I did not want advice. I just told Foggy before you posted that his positive criticism and opinion was much appreciated. I do not know if you went back and read some of the other comments from a while back but they are pretty unnecessary. I would not consider my self a beginner but I am far from a professional/commercial business. That is why I am here often, to seek aid.
> 
> Now I welcome your opinion (and everyone else's) with open arms. The more information I have before investing in a piece of equipment the better off I am. Just if you can't be respectful I rather not have your advice.


 

By the inch charges too much on smaller trees and not enough on the big ones. At least by the hour you are charging evenly for both. Like a cab driver charging by the mile...


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## Hexa Fox

Topbuilder said:


> By the inch charges too much on smaller trees and not enough on the big ones. At least by the hour you are charging evenly for both. Like a cab driver charging by the mile...



What is a good rate to charge by hour? Do you count the time it takes you to load and travel with the equipment?


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## treesmith

BC WetCoast said:


> You don't seem to understand the process. When you charge by the diameter inch, you may do ok on the smaller stumps. But say you get called to do a 10" stump, you will make $30 (@$3/in). Yah, the stump will only take you 5 min to grind, but you got mobilization (find parking, off the trailer, set up plywood barriers, move the machine) and cleanup (rake and blow, put machine back on trailer, put plywood away) and collect cash. So now you're at about 1/2 hour. Now what if that same stump is in the backyard behind a rhododendron shrub and you have to get through a gate. You got to pull the duallys off, wiggle the machine through the gate and into the backyard, wiggle the machine around to miss the rhodo etc etc. Now you're at 1 hour for the same $30.
> 
> Now the size issue, obviously you have forgotten your high school math (see you should have paid attention). As the diameter increases, the surface area increases by exponentially (pi X r^2), hence the volume you have to grind increases. If the stump doubles in size, the volume to grind increases by 4.
> 
> You need to view and price every stump based on access, grinding time, mob/demob time, cleanup time and potential damage such as rocks.





tidy said:


> ^ as stated above the mathematics behind per inch diameter pricing is totally flawed, there is no consistency in your earning as it only measures distance in a straight line, you are grinding volume not distance remember. To work out a rate you need to work what the machine costs to run per hour and go from there, if your are running a business then your rate should also include your labour, overall business expenses plus profit. That's not to say that you must charge per hour-more that you have a target for what you are turning over hourly on average and you price the work according to your estimate on time taken.
> Minimum call outs are a must also, its bad business to bring a 7000lb machine worth $4000.00 to someones house and be happy to charge only $25 because the stump was only 8".



Bazinga


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## Topbuilder

Check out flaws in "by the inch" here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stump-grinder-math.256405/#post-4794931


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## Toddppm

I'm not sure if I'm getting trolled now or what?


Let's start here-----> How old are you? Do you have a valid drivers license?


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## Hexa Fox

Topbuilder said:


> Check out flaws in "by the inch" here:
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stump-grinder-math.256405/#post-4794931



It looks like a good healthy argument on both ends. You mentioned in your post that you put in a bid for twenty-eight pines right? You said it would come out to be around $1700 if you went by inch correct? You said you ended up placing a bid of $600? We just talked about that here. You give discounts for multiple stumps. It would be ridiculous to try and charge by inch in diameter for someone that has multiple stumps.


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## Hexa Fox

Toddppm said:


> I'm not sure if I'm getting trolled now or what?
> 
> 
> Let's start here-----> How old are you? Do you have a valid drivers license?


What are you talking about and who are you directing this to? This is so far off topic and a waste of my time and everyone present in this thread.


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## Hexa Fox

Toddppm said:


> I'm not sure if I'm getting trolled now or what?
> 
> 
> Let's start here-----> How old are you? Do you have a valid drivers license?


This is the internet. You can not always tell someone's attitude by what they write. Plus it is the internet, so no one really cares what you say. Where I come from we can say whatever the hell we want. Like how our president Obama Bin Laden is the biggest garbage on the planet.


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## foggysail

Foxy--- Running a business is a tough job. This is what I suggest for you. First establish an hourly rate for your work WITHOUT TELLING YOUR CUSTOMER. That rate should be no less than $75/hour. Next add to that cost, a charge for your machinery..... I can't give a factual number needed for machinery charge because it should be based on the cost of the equipment. Remember, equipment does not last forever and you had to pay an up front cost to purchase it in the first place. A swag should be a ratio for example, $25K--- $50/hour,, $50K----$100/hour. What ever it is, you MUST figure in that charge.

OK, so your customer has only 15 minutes of work. No problem, have a minimum 1 hour charge and add in transportation time at least for one way.

The guys who do THINGS on the cheap, FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And DO NOT GIVE YOUR CUSTOMER A COST BREAKDOWN or they will eat your lunch nickle & diming trying to figure if they are getting screwed. If they can get the job done for less, well.....wish them a nice day and get out of there. You run a business for PROFIT, not to be a NICE GUY!!!! And do not be bashful! If somebody has an 8" stump he most likely is not going to be bothered to have a pro grind it out of sight.

Ten years ago I had 5 stumps (4 pine, 1 ash) ground out. The guy said he was giving me a break because he was doing my neighbors. It cost me $500 and he would only accept CASH with no receipt! 

Foggy


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## climbhightree

Hexa Fox said:


> What is a good rate to charge by hour? Do you count the time it takes you to load and travel with the equipment?



Yes, definitely. Time starts when you leave the shop for first job...time starts for second job when leaving from the first. Your labor and time for loading and traveling isn't free. If your charging by the hour correctly, you have all your fuel cost, maintenance cost, equipment payment, labor, truck costs, profit all figured out into that hourly price.

Due to load up, travel, unload, and reload you need a minimum cost...for me it is a half hour, if it is close. Even when doing multiple stumps (and some small) I rarely bid an stump under that half hour price.


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## foggysail

1/2 hour is NOT enough!


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## climbhightree

foggysail said:


> 1/2 hour is NOT enough!



It is for me...if it is close by. You don't know my rate...or my equipment. Plus, I usually save up stumps till I have a days worth...I would never load up for just a single small stump (I agree an half hour isn't worth it then).


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## Hexa Fox

climbhightree said:


> It is for me...if it is close by. You don't know my rate...or my equipment. Plus, I usually save up stumps till I have a days worth...I would never load up for just a single small stump (I agree an half hour isn't worth it then).


Exactly what I am going to try and do. I am going to try to make $500+ in a single day in my neighborhood. This is a great idea. Save them up and try to grind many up in a single day. You are talking my sort of language now!


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## BC WetCoast

Our stump grinding pricing is based on $125/hr. When the salesman goes to look at the stump, he estimates the time required to set up, grind and clean up. Not only is it based on the physical attributes, but also the desires of the customer. They ask them what they will do with the area. If they are only planting grass then you only need to grind about 3" below the surface. If they are planting a new tree, you are going to have to remove the whole root mass, which will probably require digging. That all goes into the quote.

We don't do any work without a written contract (usually the customer signing the quote sheet).

You need to be sure there is enough work in your neighbourhood. Not sure what you define as a neighbourhood, but we are a large operation and we don't keep our grinder going steady working in an area with about 1 million in population.


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## foggysail

BC WetCoast said:


> Our stump grinding pricing is based on $125/hr. When the salesman goes to look at the stump, he estimates the time required to set up, grind and clean up. Not only is it based on the physical attributes, but also the desires of the customer. They ask them what they will do with the area. If they are only planting grass then you only need to grind about 3" below the surface. If they are planting a new tree, you are going to have to remove the whole root mass, which will probably require digging. That all goes into the quote.
> 
> We don't do any work without a written contract (usually the customer signing the quote sheet).
> 
> You need to be sure there is enough work in your neighbourhood. Not sure what you define as a neighbourhood, but we are a large operation and we don't keep our grinder going steady working in an area with about 1 million in population.




GREAT, INFORMATIVE POST!!!!!!!!! AND OTHERS SHOULD PAY ATTENTION ESPECIALLY TO "CONTRACT!!!!!!!!"

Foggy


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## Hexa Fox

To tell the truth I have wanted a John Deere 3520 or 3720 for quite some time now. I bought a nice Craftsman Zero Turn last year instead. Because the 72" Mid Mount Mower Deck that this series is made to handle is much too large to get into some areas. Plus as many have mentioned I spent around half price on the Craftsman made by MTD with a 54" cut and in some areas even it is too big. So it would be a disaster with a Three Family Series Tractor. 

Plus I am very much intent on getting one in the next year or so. I am targeting used because I can save some money and they stopped making the 2320-3720. They replaced each of them last year with a new version. The all have RIO Switches which you probably know will kill your Mid PTO when you try to back up. I heard this is one of the crappiest things ever. I heard sometimes it kills the tractor so hard that the entire unit stalls out. 

When you try to go full reverse with my Craftsman it disengages the blades. It is not a big deal but is annoying sometimes. Another thing I noticed is it is a 24 HP Kohler and it guzzles gas.


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## Hexa Fox

I have been wanting to invest in a tractor and pay it off and some implements regardless of how tough it is to pay for them. I honestly think that the Winter we had last year would have been enough for me to pay for the tractor if I would have had it and a Snow Blower. It would be just my luck that I would set myself this year for a heavy snow year and not get a single day of snow that accumulates to anything.


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## Hexa Fox

BC WetCoast said:


> Our stump grinding pricing is based on $125/hr. When the salesman goes to look at the stump, he estimates the time required to set up, grind and clean up. Not only is it based on the physical attributes, but also the desires of the customer. They ask them what they will do with the area. If they are only planting grass then you only need to grind about 3" below the surface. If they are planting a new tree, you are going to have to remove the whole root mass, which will probably require digging. That all goes into the quote.
> 
> We don't do any work without a written contract (usually the customer signing the quote sheet).
> 
> You need to be sure there is enough work in your neighbourhood. Not sure what you define as a neighbourhood, but we are a large operation and we don't keep our grinder going steady working in an area with about 1 million in population.



Well my grinder is only going to put me under $4,000 minus the cost of the tractor. I know this grinder is very powerful the only downfall to it is the more HP you have the better it works. I was told by a guy with a John Deere 3320 that it works great but he would not mind having a little more HP. For anyone that knows the 2720 and 3320 are about the same. Then when you go from the 3320 to the 3520 you gain about 5 HP at the PTO.

I would say that there are a few thousand houses around here where I can drive the tractor. I am going to try to get the worked scheduled before I even go out and buy the grinder and tractor. Right now is a good time to help people spread mulch too so it would not hurt to have a FEL.


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## climbhightree

Your grinder may only cost $4,000,but your not just charging for that...it doesn't run by itself. You have wear and tear on your tractor. So our have more than 4 grand invested. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## BC WetCoast

I just had a look at that machine. If you are planning on using a stump grinding attachment on that tractor, I hope you are a good mechanic, because any of the attachments I saw (all 3rd party) looked too light to do any amount of significant grinding. Will be fine for the occasional stump, but will get beat to **** if you try and grind a lot.

Second problem I see is getting that tractor into back yards. Don't know where you live, but here if you can't the machine through a 36" gate, 1/2 your market is gone. Also that machine will have problems if you have stumps where you would need ramps to access the machine. We carry 6' ramps with us which allows us to get up over 18" retaining walls and 1-3 step stairways.

If you look at all the major stump grinding machines, Vermeer, Bandit, Carlton or Rayco you will note that they are way beefier in the components. Even at that, cutter wheel bearings go fairly frequently, electrical systems get beat due to the vibrations. 

I would not spend $4000 on that stump grinding attachments (although the only ones I saw were $6k). Better to spend the money on a real grinder and not wreck you grass cutter, saving it for what it's really intended for - grass cutting.

Maybe AA has his Steiner up for sale?


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## Hexa Fox

BC WetCoast said:


> I just had a look at that machine. If you are planning on using a stump grinding attachment on that tractor, I hope you are a good mechanic, because any of the attachments I saw (all 3rd party) looked too light to do any amount of significant grinding. Will be fine for the occasional stump, but will get beat to **** if you try and grind a lot.
> 
> Second problem I see is getting that tractor into back yards. Don't know where you live, but here if you can't the machine through a 36" gate, 1/2 your market is gone. Also that machine will have problems if you have stumps where you would need ramps to access the machine. We carry 6' ramps with us which allows us to get up over 18" retaining walls and 1-3 step stairways.
> 
> If you look at all the major stump grinding machines, Vermeer, Bandit, Carlton or Rayco you will note that they are way beefier in the components. Even at that, cutter wheel bearings go fairly frequently, electrical systems get beat due to the vibrations.
> 
> I would not spend $4000 on that stump grinding attachments (although the only ones I saw were $6k). Better to spend the money on a real grinder and not wreck you grass cutter, saving it for what it's really intended for - grass cutting.
> 
> Maybe AA has his Steiner up for sale?



Really? Because everyone I talked to said it works way better than most grinders out there. They say the only problem with it is having the power to make it work. Of course I do not expect it to work as good as a $60,000 piece of equipment. This guy said he has a 3320 and claims it is awesome for everything he has used it on. I am looking for a 3520 or 3720 and just going from the 3320 to the 3520 you get five more HP at the PTO. Here is the link: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/184886-woods-stump-grinder.html


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## Hexa Fox

BC WetCoast said:


> I just had a look at that machine. If you are planning on using a stump grinding attachment on that tractor, I hope you are a good mechanic, because any of the attachments I saw (all 3rd party) looked too light to do any amount of significant grinding. Will be fine for the occasional stump, but will get beat to **** if you try and grind a lot.
> 
> Second problem I see is getting that tractor into back yards. Don't know where you live, but here if you can't the machine through a 36" gate, 1/2 your market is gone. Also that machine will have problems if you have stumps where you would need ramps to access the machine. We carry 6' ramps with us which allows us to get up over 18" retaining walls and 1-3 step stairways.
> 
> If you look at all the major stump grinding machines, Vermeer, Bandit, Carlton or Rayco you will note that they are way beefier in the components. Even at that, cutter wheel bearings go fairly frequently, electrical systems get beat due to the vibrations.
> 
> I would not spend $4000 on that stump grinding attachments (although the only ones I saw were $6k). Better to spend the money on a real grinder and not wreck you grass cutter, saving it for what it's really intended for - grass cutting.
> 
> Maybe AA has his Steiner up for sale?


Like I said I plan to try and accumulate some business before I go out and buy this equipment. Also one of my friends backed up what you are saying. He said "you are going to be surprised at where people expect you to get your equipment". He told me that sometimes people have a stump they want removed in there backyard where they only have no gate and the only gate they have is only big enough for a person and not even a small garden tractor. 

However a lot of people around here have a really large gate or no fence at all. I do not know how big it is but they are like ones you see on farms. One you could literally fit a tank through with no problem. However I never said I did not expect to run into this sort of stuff.


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## swatbwana

tidy said:


> So when people are talking "per inch" they are talking diameter? If that's the case its pretty astounding that a unit primarily used to measure distance is being used where really what guys need to measure is volume (surely depth of grind is going to be relevant to a client)


I know depth of grind is relevant to my wife... 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## treecutterjr

Hexa Fox said:


> Like I said I plan to try and accumulate some business before I go out and buy this equipment. Also one of my friends backed up what you are saying. He said "you are going to be surprised at where people expect you to get your equipment". He told me that sometimes people have a stump they want removed in there backyard where they only have no gate and the only gate they have is only big enough for a person and not even a small garden tractor.
> 
> However a lot of people around here have a really large gate or no fence at all. I do not know how big it is but they are like ones you see on farms. One you could literally fit a tank through with no problem. However I never said I did not expect to run into this sort of stuff.



I've got a Carlton 2500-4 for sale. $4500 fits through a 36"gate sounds perfect for you






Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## Hexa Fox

treecutterjr said:


> I've got a Carlton 2500-4 for sale. $4500 fits through a 36"gate sounds perfect for you
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk



I really need to invest in a tractor. Another big thing around here is snow removal. You're the gentleman who talked on the other stump grinding post. You said you try to charge by inch in diameter rather than by hour right?


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## treecutterjr

I've been doing it this past couple months and I'm liking the results. You just estimate from the top down. If I would charge $250 for a 6ft stump or $200 or what ever then I break it down into inches and now I can give Joe blow an ideaoff what his stump costs before I ever get there. 
The people are right about depth and root flairand other circumstances, but you are already in the ballpark. That ll be an extra 50 because of blank blank blank.
It also eliminates time wasters. I had a guy call with a 6 foot stump. That's 72 inches roughly. I told him around 200$ give or take. He said will you do it for $100. No. Bam. Daves me ride. Saved him some time and we're both happy. 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## Hexa Fox

treecutterjr said:


> I've been doing it this past couple months and I'm liking the results. You just estimate from the top down. If I would charge $250 for a 6ft stump or $200 or what ever then I break it down into inches and now I can give Joe blow an ideaoff what his stump costs before I ever get there.
> The people are right about depth and root flairand other circumstances, but you are already in the ballpark. That ll be an extra 50 because of blank blank blank.
> It also eliminates time wasters. I had a guy call with a 6 foot stump. That's 72 inches roughly. I told him around 200$ give or take. He said will you do it for $100. No. Bam. Daves me ride. Saved him some time and we're both happy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


Thanks for the input.


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## defensiblespace

With all due respect to those who disagree, there is nothing wrong with asking how much to charge. I would rather my competitor ask that question than seriously underbid me. Then everyone looks like a jackass. This forum is for passing knowledge along, not belittling others who don't know the same info that you do. 
As for how I charge, by the inch is only part of the equation. If you are just charging by the inch, you are getting burned on large stumps, because the square area get exponentially larger. Measure the stump at the base, not where the cut was made. Use the chart I attached to base your prices off of. I acquired this chart on arboristsite years ago from reading another thread like this one. It was one of the best pieces of info I got off this site. There are several prices for each size stump. You can choose a price based on whether stump stump is cut high or flush, how long it has been cut for, the difficulty of getting to it, and what kind of tree it was.


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## tidy

^ agreed, sometimes its nice to know what other people are charging because it gives you an idea of what the market will accept. 
To some extent we all have a responsibility to stand firm(ish) on pricing - if you have enough work that's easier said than done obviously. I just bought a 2001 Carlton 4400-4 last night, machine is pretty big big and heavy for my purposes but I'm excited about entering the bigger stump market


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## flushcut

I grind stumps for free, it's included in the price of removing the tree.


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## 74inchshovel

Would like to make a couple comments here. First, the idea of drumming up a bunch of business first then buying the machine is wrong for a couple of reasons. It shows a lack of confidence in yourself and your abilities to make a go of this. It puts any potential customers in a bad position, how can you possibly bid jobs fairly like this? I would never buy a lawn tractor and put on an attachment. You will lose so much business right off the bat for many good, previously mentioned reasons. If you want to see how something is done, watch how the pros do it. I have never seen any one do it like this and make it work. Don't try to reinvent the wheel, at least for now.


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## stumpbegone

I have read all the posts on stump grinding pricing. Basically there are three “camps”:

1. “Inchers” = charging by diameter inch

2. “Area” = charging by the area of the stump and occasionally taking into account height to charge by volume (have to remember high school math and pi x radius squared)

3. “Time” = charging a hourly rate

After using all 3 methods in different scenarios I have concluded there is no single method that works in all situations. “Inchers” inevitably charge less for bigger stumps. “Area” and “Volume” result in charging, arguably accurate but extremely high prices that are likely not market-competitive for large stumps. “Time” results in undercharging for very small stumps.

Now some of these methods can be modified to take into account the other methods benefits. For example, “inchers” can charge $2/inch for 30” to 50” and $3/inch for 50” to 70”. Doing this is simply a way of compensating for the fact that the area (the amount of work) increases by 4 times when the diameter doubles. *That being said, anyone that charges a flat inch rate, that doesn’t change as the size of the stump increases, is doing themselves a huge disservice.*

So after much thought, excel formulas, reading posts like this, talking with a veteran stump grinder with +30 years experience and my own lessons learned the hard way here are my recommendations and what I am doing. Feel free to knock holes in it and criticize. We all learn from the conversation (maybe even convince everyone to start charging more for those really big stumps).

1. Determine your minimum. This will be different for everyone depending on years in business, equipment used, location, financial situation, and your personality. The range I have seen on the postings is about $50 - $250. For me, its $60.

2. Determine the max size of a stump you will grind for your minimum. For me its 30”. That would take me about 10 – 15 minutes. It’s a personal choice but the decision can be guided by your choices in step #3 below.

3. Determine your per inch rate after the minimum. For me its $2/inch from 30” to 42”. Then $3/inch from 42” to 60”. I will make more per minute on the 43” stump vs. the 60” stump. I just accept this fact and appreciate that I can give a ballpark estimate over the phone, the customer can understand it and there are some efficiencies of lining up on one 60” stump and grinding away vs. doing four 30” stumps (both equal the same cubic inch volume).

4. Determine your hourly rate for big stumps. I consider a big stump anything bigger than 60”. * I am not recommending telling your customer what your hourly rate is.* But you should know your hourly rate. Then use your experience to determine how many minutes it will take to grind it. If I have a 90” ash it may take me 80 minutes. If I have a brand new Carlton 7500 and 30 years experience it may take only 30 – 45 minutes. For me my hourly rate is $150 (keep in mind this is only for big stump scenarios). That guy with the brand new carlton may be $300/hr. The tricky part here is that I would only be using this method on a 61” stump so my price is already $183. So its only at the 73 minute point that I would use this method. Remember to keep it simple, so call it one hour. To summarize if a job is going to take me longer than a hour I will charge $180 + $2.50/machine minutes for every minute after the initial 60 machine minutes. Man that sounds complicated. But if you try to keep it simple by charging by the inch you will undercharge big time. If you use area or volume you will be likely be charging way above the market because most operators don’t think about pricing this way. If you use the hourly rate you will be able to decide if this particular stump is worthwhile to you. You just have to be able to know ahead of time what your machine is capable of doing in that specific situation.

So to wrap up this very long post, let’s talk about variables. Variables to consider:

Type of tree: soft or hard. All my pricing is based on a medium hardwood like an Ash.

Tree condition: rotten?

Access: front yard grind and go or backyard tight gate pain in the rear

Roots

Depth required

Stump height: For stump height I treat all stumps 6.5 inches or less the same. I do this because my machine can grind that height down to a reasonable depth in one pass. Anything above that I will have to take two (or more) passes. To account for that I use an admittedly complicated method of determining the total cubic volume then comparing that to my pricing standards for the 6.5 inch height stump. For example a 12” stump height x 30” diameter is equal to a 6.5” stump height x 40” diameter. So I would charge anywhere from 1.5 to 2 times more for that higher 30" diameter stump because the cubic volume doubled. Note that the relationship between height and cubic volume is different than the relationship between diameter and cubic volume. With height the cubic volume doubles as the height doubles. With diameter the cubic volume quadruples as the diameter doubles.

Summary:

OK so sum all this up.

· $60 minimum up to 30” stump

· $2/inch for stumps 30” to 42”

· $3/inch for stumps 42” to 60”

· Use $150/hr rate for stumps that exceed a $180 charge using the per inch method.

· For my area, to stay competitive, I can keep it simple and continue to charge $3/inch for stumps greater than 60” to 100”. It’s my personal decision to get the jobs vs. taking the objective mathematical approach but not getting the job.

· After 100” its kind of a wild west situation and just have to know how much time its going to take and then decide what makes it worth it to you. There is an argument to be made to letting people take these huge stumps for a low bid and hopefully learn a lesson.


Some quick things about me to help evaluate: I’m a rookie. Been in the business for two seasons. Grinding is my side-business. Learned stump grinding two decades ago during college summer breaks. I use a very old Carlton 7500 and an equally old Carlton 4400-4. 420 stumps complete and counting. Average stump diameter 35".


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## BC WetCoast

You've obviously put a lot of thought into this. Do you give an estimate over the phone or a fixed price? Do you visit the site prior to and give a fixed price? We have salesmen, so they are required to visit the site to give a fixed price. At times I think they just pull a number out of the air. 

How do you price mulch removal? I know from experience it takes as long to haul the mulch as it does to grind the stump.

What about hedges? I did a hedge stump removal today, it was about 25 5" stumps. Did it in about 10 minutes moving along the hedge.

As you said, it's not the standard ones that will burn you, its the unique situations. We don't have a lot of competition, in that there aren't a lot of stump grinding only services, most grinders are tied to tree care companies and do it as an additional service. Therefore, there isn't a lot of price pressure.


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## capetrees

First, I cut the stump as flush as possible. No cost. Usually takes 2 minutes at most for big stumps, minimal time for small stumps. For grinding, I go by inch rate first, $3/in up to 20 inches and then it's 20 cents per square inch for stumps over 20". Doing the math, 20" is about where the two rates cross paths. By this math, comparing the 2 methods, a 36" stump by the inch method would cost 36" x $3 = $108, by the area method 3.14(18 x 18) x .2 = $203.50, big difference. 48" stump? 48 x 3 = $144, or $362. 
As far as market rates, keep in mind, as the diameter goes up, I make a lot more money which potentially puts me out of the range for the stump to be ground due to cost to the consumer but keep in mind also, most stumps around my area are less than 3' diameter.

If I have multiple stumps, all less than 20", I still go by the inch method due to the fact that they will grind fast.


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## marne

You're all right in all the mentioned above.

But all thoughts and math won't help if the next one who's quoting the 3' lump just bids by the inch @ 2$, or anyone with a big hp grinder bids 250$ for doing 30 x 10" because he is done in half an hour.


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## capetrees

And that's the other part of the market, the low ballers that have no overhead and work cheap. Gotta factor that in but don't kill yourself.


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## gorman

I look at the job and see the accessibility, how long to get the grinder to the stump, how much crud we have to wheelbarrow away, how long it will take to grind and clean up and bid $200 an hour with a $125 minimum. I can't send my worker out with a truck, trailer, and diesel grinder to grind a 18" stump for 70 bucks. I'd lose money. The biggest drain is driving to the job so you have to maintain a minimum.


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## jefflovstrom

gorman said:


> I look at the job and see the accessibility, how long to get the grinder to the stump, how much crud we have to wheelbarrow away, how long it will take to grind and clean up and bid $200 an hour with a $125 minimum. I can't send my worker out with a truck, trailer, and diesel grinder to grind a 18" stump for 70 bucks. I'd lose money. The biggest drain is driving to the job so you have to maintain a minimum.



Same here, bid by the hour with a one hour minimum.
Jeff


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## no tree to big

Everything we do is by time your guys are hourly right? We do do big contracts every now and then that is based on dbh they are rare but we price them high real hi. If we didn't cut the tree, normally we don't even offer a price but for the ones we do its generally a 275 dollar minimum. Our estimater looks at it to make sure we don't waste crew time we regularly have 3 to 4 hundred dollars stumps, that does include hauling excess material 

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