# StockBridge Climbing Preparation



## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 4, 2010)

Hi I am very interested in getting into the trees and would love to get some hands on before I make it into StockBridge School of Arborculture. What should I buy to start off with and practice climbing, I know there are many techniques and many forms of gear but I am terrified of heights and allergic to bees I do not want to panic while I am in a tree. I must also stress I DO NOT want to harm a tree in any way so where do I start?


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## tree md (Apr 4, 2010)

You can climb with just a rope and saddle. I did it for years. You can tie a friction hitch on a traditional closed system and hip thrust up the tree. If you want to get fancy you can learn to foot lock. You will need a throw line and throw weight to set a line but that is very affordable. A saddle and rope will be your biggest expense. Get the Tree Climber's Companion too. It's meant to be used as a field guide. It has both ascension methods I mentioned in there.

And be very careful if you are allergic to bees. Have your shot with you. If you decided to do this stuff for a living chances are you will encounter bees at some point in your career.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 4, 2010)

you may want to try the recreational climb forums also there are some knowledgeable guys down there that are in your area I believe. If you could hook up with them and get some tips it would be a home run for you.


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## tree md (Apr 4, 2010)

Here's the thing, there are many more efficient, modern methods of climbing but I personally think it is best for a climber to learn the minimalist, traditional method before moving on. It's learning the basics. It could save your life someday.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 4, 2010)

tree md- So looks like I'm going saddle shopping. I want one I can use in the future for jobs that is certified. Right now I am recreational. I've seen the foot lock technique in a youtube video I agree the basics is a good thing to know when your equipment fails. 

Your throw line is used before you pull your climbing rope into the tree right? A bag of sand or something on a string. 

Is there a standard thickness or gauge rope that all or most equipment uses? I weight 115lbs so lucky for me all my equipment will be over rated for what I am using it for (no complaints) 

I don't carry my epipen its expired and I haven't requested a new one because I won't use it. I have been there and cannot bring myself to use it nor do I trust anyone not in the medical field to do it so I kind of run to the nearest house and dial 911 usually. 

Stihl-O-Matic- That's what I figured but it appears more people post here. I hope someone chimes in from the recreational side.


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## tree md (Apr 4, 2010)

*Y*

Yeah, the throw line is basically a bean bag that you attach to a slick line and sling it up into the tree. Once you have a limb isolated and a climbing rope installed you can take off.

Do yourself a favor and buy the TCC like I recommended. It goes over all the basics in detail with diagrams. You can start out low and slow and keep yourself out of trouble.

Lot's of options for saddles and ropes. Depends on how much coin you want to spend. If money is tight and you wanted to go with the econo plan you could probably get yourself setup for between $250 and $300 for a bear minimum, economic rope climbing kit. That would be rope saddle and throwline/weight.

Just make sure that your rope is rated for arborist. Check out the sponsor links above. Lots of gear shopping to be done there. Search feature is your friend around here.

Good luck!


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## tree md (Apr 4, 2010)

Here's the thing bro, I like shopping with other peoples money. 

I want to tell you to go ahead and buy one of the climbing kits if you're going to go to school for climbing anyway. Thing is, do you think you're going to stick it out. I mean have you ever been up in a tree? Do you have any problems with intense labor or ever experienced vertigo and froze up. Climbing is not for everyone. I would hate to tell you to drop a bunch of coin on gear and you decide it's not what you want to do.

That being said, if I were soon to go to school for climbing anyway I would go ahead and get geared up. Have you checked to see if the school has any program to help you buy gear? I mean do they foot the gear for you and let you pay it off as part of your tuition or something? Have you checked on that?

With that being said, I would be looking at the climbing kits that Sherrill and Wesspur offers. They didn't have stuff like that when I started out so I have always bought my stuff piecemeal. I've got to admit that the climbing kits do look like a pretty good value for a beginner. If your heading to school for climbing anyway and you think it's something you're going to be able to handle and want to do, go ahead and buy as much of the best as you can afford. I would buy the best kit I could afford. You might as well get spurs with your kit as well because I am sure you will be taught that in school.

Anyway, glad I could offer my opinion and try to help you spend your money.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 4, 2010)

I am very afraid of heights and yes I spin and lock up, what doesn't look high looks twice as high when you get there. I am going to try though, learn trust in the equipment and tree. Wether they teach me it or not I refuse to use spurs I'm in it for the care. 

I have to attend my local collage to get my Math and English 101 done along with SATs and a few other classes before I can attend StockBridge so I'm not sure if they pay for it but climbing in the mean time will keep me focused. I figured get myself a throw line and weight, along with a harness then learn foot locking until I get board enough to by some sort of rigging device to climb with. Oh and obviously a rope and friction saver, definitely a friction saver. That is allot of money right there


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## tree md (Apr 4, 2010)

Well, it sounds like you've got the right attitude. Nothing wrong in using spurs for removals. It is pretty standard operating procedure. I would agree that it is a very good idea to learn rope climbing first. I wish I had learned it first instead of spur climbing. It will make it easier on you in the long run to climb on a rope and not use the spurs so much as a crutch. Bad habits are much harder to unlearn. 

As for fear of heights, just believe that God has a plan for you and will not let you down if you are so inclined to believe in God. If not, believe in yourself and that instinct and a good healthy fear of death will keep you from falling... LOL, 

Best of luck to you!


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 4, 2010)

tree md said:


> Well, it sounds like you've got the right attitude. Nothing wrong in using spurs for removals. It is pretty standard operating procedure. I would agree that it is a very good idea to learn rope climbing first. I wish I had learned it first instead of spur climbing. It will make it easier on you in the long run to climb on a rope and not use the spurs so much as a crutch. Bad habits are much harder to unlearn.
> 
> As for fear of heights, just believe that God has a plan for you and will not let you down if you are so inclined to believe in God. If not, believe in yourself and that instinct and a good healthy fear of death will keep you from falling... LOL,
> 
> Best of luck to you!



Very good point with removals, I will leave the spurs for a treat when I am very high in a tree a bit scared on a removal 

You wana talk god haha, I am lucky I'm even continuing with collage for all I know I'm dead Dec 21 2012.


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## tree md (Apr 5, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Very good point with removals, I will leave the spurs for a treat when I am very high in a tree a bit scared on a removal
> 
> You wana talk god haha, I am lucky I'm even continuing with collage for all I know I'm dead Dec 21 2012.



LOL, hey, every day above ground is a good day! Believe me on that one. 

Spikes aren't all they are cracked up to be. They are great for removals but they suck to wear. I'd much rather climb on a rope and leave the spikes on the ground. Much more enjoyable.

BTW, what is your favorite Pink Floyd song??? Mine is "Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave grooving with a pick"


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 5, 2010)

tree md said:


> LOL, hey, every day above ground is a good day! Believe me on that one.
> 
> Spikes aren't all they are cracked up to be. They are great for removals but they suck to wear. I'd much rather climb on a rope and leave the spikes on the ground. Much more enjoyable.
> 
> BTW, what is your favorite Pink Floyd song??? Mine is "Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave grooving with a pick"



The "Celestial Voices" breakdown of the Saucerful Of Secrets off of Live At Pompeii


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## outofmytree (Apr 5, 2010)

Interesting thread.

When you have your gear sorted out and you have read the Tree Climbers Companion untill the print blurs across the page, put on your kit, enter a tree and vertigo will blow your mind. You will forget all you have crammed into your head and lock up. So before you do this, set up a cambuim saver in your shed, garage or a tree with a limb no more than double your height and sit in your saddle a metre off the ground. Then bounce for all your worth. Learning to trust your gear is vital in the tree. When you get that cramp of fear that turns your guts to water and your legs to jelly you will need all the help you can get.

I love heights. As a kid I climbed everything from trees to rocks and buildings too. Still I have felt fear in a harness when things go wrong. Assume you will be tested and put in your "apprentice" time on the ground, then a metre off the ground, then 2 metres, then 3 and so on. 

Learn to let go of the tree.

Use a simple but reliable friction hitch like an English prussik.

Overengineer everything.

Climb with a buddy. Actually this rule should be at the top of the list. Never ever ever climb alone. Even if you are fooling around in your own yard at very least have someone with you who can talk you down or call 911 if you are stuck beyond self rescue. 

Climbing trees is no more dangerous than racing cars, parachuting or scuba diving. 

Welcome to the asylum.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 5, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> When you have your gear sorted out and you have read the Tree Climbers Companion untill the print blurs across the page, put on your kit, enter a tree and vertigo will blow your mind. You will forget all you have crammed into your head and lock up. So before you do this, set up a cambuim saver in your shed, garage or a tree with a limb no more than double your height and sit in your saddle a metre off the ground. Then bounce for all your worth. Learning to trust your gear is vital in the tree. When you get that cramp of fear that turns your guts to water and your legs to jelly you will need all the help you can get.
> 
> ...



I will have to get my gear and learn my knots. I'm not in it for the asylum as the least haha I just want to help these beats I stare at no matter where I go they are all different like cars. When your on a road trip its a fun game to play and make people think your crazy, "what kind of pruning style each tree has undergone" or identifying the species.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Apr 5, 2010)

*climbing*

Any arborist in your area that can rec climb? Or have you watch at a job work day? A job prune or tree removal is a lot more involved. Just do some rec climbing for height and rope climbing. Get the hang of things before moving to more complicated situations! 
Some people never get over the height thing. Stay outa dropping the big coins until ya know it for you.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 5, 2010)

Saw Dust Smoken said:


> Any arborist in your area that can rec climb? Or have you watch at a job work day? A job prune or tree removal is a lot more involved. Just do some rec climbing for height and rope climbing. Get the hang of things before moving to more complicated situations!
> Some people never get over the height thing. Stay outa dropping the big coins until ya know it for you.



I'm trying to get some hands on work (free labor for experience) especially towards my Arborist Certification but knone will get back to me. I would love to just try things out and see if maybe root work or something like that I should go into. It is a very new technology with the air spade and root crown correction, seems to be proving to be a successful operation with some patience.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 11, 2010)

I got into a tree today and did some pruning, actually a full pruning but anyway it was a small tree. Once I got up there with a bow saw everything changed, every move I made every cut I made everything I did took at least twice as long. Couldn't get comfortable at the right angles to make proper cuts safely, constant repositioning. However once I took a lunch break I popped back into the tree with no problem (I think I was just used to the crotch of the tree and foot positioning)


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## outofmytree (Apr 11, 2010)

Low and slow is the way to go....

You may want to trade that bow saw in on a decent handsaw though..... I'm a silky fan but I am sure if that is more than you want to spend that you can find local product cheaper.


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## tree MDS (Apr 11, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Low and slow is the way to go....
> 
> You may want to trade that bow saw in on a decent handsaw though..... I'm a silky fan but I am sure if that is more than you want to spend that you can find local product cheaper.



The curved corona hand saw is an excellent buy at something like $24.


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## oldirty (Apr 11, 2010)

you cut everything you could reach i see. lol.

lion tail is not a compliment when they think of your pruning, young fella. are you up there free climbing or did you get a saddle?


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## PineFever (Apr 11, 2010)

*So what did ya decide on*

Hey Pink,
Been lurking your thread since you started it. See now your in the tree.
Not being nosy, but just wondering what choices you made for rope, saddle,
friction saver, carabiners etc. About 5 years ago one of my friends came to work with me to help out on the ground, he had never seen anyone work in a tree. A long story short he thought it was the cats meow. He just had to get some gear and get in a tree. We told him slow slow slow was the way to go,
offered him advice on gear, training, techniques, etc. He went out and spent major bucks on a lot of gear and training videos and books, I'm talking like $1400.00 worth. He practiced on a small pine in his backyard where the first crotch was about 15 feet off the ground, until he was confident with his knots, rope and the rest of his gear. About 4 months went by and I saw him in Victorville at Harbor Freight, I asked how his climbing was coming along.
He told me "I found out that climbing is not for me" he said he could not get over 25 feet in a tree and he would freeze, couldn't even reach up and release the tension on his prusik to let himself down, had a friend go to the rental yard and rent a large extension ladder while he sat in his saddle to get him down. At least he listened to the "don't climb alone part". I asked why he didn't have his friend call me, he said he was too embarrassed. Told me he had sold all his gear on ebay.


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## millbilly (Apr 11, 2010)

Why would anyone recreation climb? If I'm climbing I'm getting paid. Never understood rock climbers either


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 11, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Low and slow is the way to go....
> 
> You may want to trade that bow saw in on a decent handsaw though..... I'm a silky fan but I am sure if that is more than you want to spend that you can find local product cheaper.



That's what I am trying. Thought this tree was perfect for me. 

You mean one of those giant folding pocket-knife style hand saws?



oldirty said:


> you cut everything you could reach i see. lol.
> 
> lion tail is not a compliment when they think of your pruning, young fella. are you up there free climbing or did you get a saddle?



Actually no this picture is from BEFORE the prune I will post after pictures today. 

I only lion tailed one branch, the small one. I have been told how bad lion tailing is. 

Free climb, wasn't high enough to get seriously hurt(unless I fell ON the saw). 



PineFever said:


> Hey Pink,
> Been lurking your thread since you started it. See now your in the tree.
> Not being nosy, but just wondering what choices you made for rope, saddle,
> friction saver, carabiners etc. About 5 years ago one of my friends came to work with me to help out on the ground, he had never seen anyone work in a tree. A long story short he thought it was the cats meow. He just had to get some gear and get in a tree. We told him slow slow slow was the way to go,
> ...



Yeah I'm really starting to think that this is int for me, I'm wikid bummed to because trees fascinate me. Now if I still get my Arborist certification I can do other stuff besides climb with it right? Tree inspections and root care? Maybe manage a company someday rather than climb. Do the initial inspection and ground work and have my crew climb? 



millbilly said:


> Why would anyone recreation climb? If I'm climbing I'm getting paid. Never understood rock climbers either



It's a nice view when you can't get payed to climb a tree in the middle of the forest. I don't think recreational climbers climb street trees and trees in backyards.


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## oldirty (Apr 11, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Yeah I'm really starting to think that this is int for me, I'm wikid bummed to because trees fascinate me. Now if I still get my Arborist certification I can do other stuff besides climb with it right? Tree inspections and root care? Maybe manage a company someday rather than climb. Do the initial inspection and ground work and have my crew climb?




ummm. no. or at least i hope that is not how it works.


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## Mass tree guy (Apr 11, 2010)

Liquid services has a great return


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 11, 2010)

oldirty said:


> ummm. no. or at least i hope that is not how it works.



Dammit


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## outofmytree (Apr 12, 2010)

> Yeah I'm really starting to think that this is int for me, I'm wikid bummed to because trees fascinate me. Now if I still get my Arborist certification I can do other stuff besides climb with it right? Tree inspections and root care? Maybe manage a company someday rather than climb. Do the initial inspection and ground work and have my crew climb?



Im with OD on this one. 

If you want to be a "real" arborist PFE then you need to climb. How can you help a tree when you can only see the small fraction visible from the ground? 

I prefer to lead from the front. So how could I send a climber up where I could not go? How can I make sure he will be safe on the job if I do not understand the difference between good and reckless climbing? Perhaps this industry is not for you, but you will never know unless you try. And free climbing a shrub on the verge doesnt count mate.


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## Mass tree guy (Apr 12, 2010)

lol @ tree climbing a shrub.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Im with OD on this one.
> 
> If you want to be a "real" arborist PFE then you need to climb. How can you help a tree when you can only see the small fraction visible from the ground?
> 
> I prefer to lead from the front. So how could I send a climber up where I could not go? How can I make sure he will be safe on the job if I do not understand the difference between good and reckless climbing? Perhaps this industry is not for you, but you will never know unless you try. And free climbing a shrub on the verge doesnt count mate.



Ya ya haha. Actually that was great made me wake everyone in my house up laughing at 4am thanks. Seriously though I need to get over this height thing because I just have way too much fascination in trees no matter what I'm doing I'm looking at trees and telling people things about them to the point they tell me to shut-up, trees are me. There is-int any business that just does root crown corrections or air spading? I think I have a natural fear of death a really bad one so I think I need to start there then work on my heights.


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## Mass tree guy (Apr 13, 2010)

Mass tree guy said:


> Liquid services has a great return



lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Bermie (Apr 13, 2010)

You really should get hold of Moss on the recreational forum...he has ALL kinds of gear, has a great selection of trees to climb and is a calm, cool instructor. He loves to climb and really enjoys showing newbies the ropes. He lives in Jamaica Plains...don't know if that is near to you?

I really rate him if you want to try getting some climb time under your belt without imposing on a tree care guy who can't afford the time to show you climbing stuff slowly and in detail because of work pressure.


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## ClimbinArbor (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Hi I am very interested in getting into the trees and would love to get some hands on before I make it into StockBridge School of Arborculture. What should I buy to start off with and practice climbing, I know there are many techniques and many forms of gear but I am terrified of heights and allergic to bees I do not want to panic while I am in a tree. I must also stress I DO NOT want to harm a tree in any way so where do I start?



My friend welcome to the thrilling yet expensive world of tree climbing!



Bermie said:


> You really should get hold of Moss on the recreational forum...he has ALL kinds of gear, has a great selection of trees to climb and is a calm, cool instructor. He loves to climb and really enjoys showing newbies the ropes. He lives in Jamaica Plains...don't know if that is near to you?
> 
> I really rate him if you want to try getting some climb time under your belt without imposing on a tree care guy who can't afford the time to show you climbing stuff slowly and in detail because of work pressure.



I second that.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

I live in Massachusetts USA. haha pretty far away I think right?


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## ClimbinArbor (Apr 13, 2010)

no i think Moss is from Mass too.
go look in the Recreational Climbing forum and you cant miss him...


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## Bermie (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I live in Massachusetts USA. haha pretty far away I think right?



Moss lives in Jamaica Plains, Boston Massachusetts!!!
I have climbed with him twice now.


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## Mass tree guy (Apr 13, 2010)

Bermie- you ever climb with a guy named Rich Herferth from Bartlett?
he is on the ISA/MA arborist board.


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2010)

LOL, A Pink Floyd guy don't know where Jamaica Plains is??? That used to be the place to get weed when I was a kid... :monkey:

X3 on Moss.


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## oldirty (Apr 13, 2010)

if you brought that camera out with you i would've gotten you some saddle time.


that said, i have climbed with moss a few times as well and he has come far in that short amount of time from his climbing beginnings to now. you'd be psyched if he gave you some time.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

tree md said:


> LOL, A Pink Floyd guy don't know where Jamaica Plains is??? That used to be the place to get weed when I was a kid... :monkey:
> 
> X3 on Moss.



I asked him to chime in on this thread hopefully he will. Good stuff comes from Canada now man or California, ...or your back yard.



oldirty said:


> if you brought that camera out with you i would've gotten you some saddle time.
> 
> 
> that said, i have climbed with moss a few times as well and he has come far in that short amount of time from his climbing beginnings to now. you'd be psyched if he gave you some time.



If he gave me time I would bring my cameras for sure. I do a lot of filming and I plan on making many many tree videos  Anyone need a local youtube commercial in HD? I shoot and edit myself


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I asked him to chime in on this thread hopefully he will. Good stuff comes from Canada now man or California, ...or your back yard.
> 
> 
> 
> If he gave me time I would bring my cameras for sure. I do a lot of filming and I plan on making many many tree videos  Anyone need a local youtube commercial in HD? I shoot and edit myself



I wouldn't scream the backyard deal too hard. 

Moss is an excellent tactician. If I were you I would contact him directly though PM or whatever and beg on hands and knees for him to give you some tree time...


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

tree md said:


> I wouldn't scream the backyard deal too hard.
> 
> Moss is an excellent tactician. If I were you I would contact him directly though PM or whatever and beg on hands and knees for him to give you some tree time...



The feds can fly over my house and yard all they want I don't have anything to hide, my friends do. 

I'll give Moss a few days and I'll start hitting him up PM.


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## climber338 (Apr 13, 2010)

pinkfloydeffect are you going to be going to stockbridge in the fall?


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> The feds can fly over my house and yard all they want I don't have anything to hide, my friends do.
> 
> I'll give Moss a few days and I'll start hitting him up PM.



Good deal. I bet Moss can help you out.

And on the weed deal, we are talking Colombian Gold days for me... Hopefully you will outgrow it too. Remember, no funny stuff up in the trees. There's a time to work and a time to play. You need your wits about you when you're learning and working.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

climber338 said:


> pinkfloydeffect are you going to be going to stockbridge in the fall?



I need to complete my basic Math and English 101 classes at my local community collage before I can be transferred to Umass so I'm looking at a year from nowish. And my SAT's 



tree md said:


> Good deal. I bet Moss can help you out.
> 
> And on the weed deal, we are talking Colombian Gold days for me... Hopefully you will outgrow it too. Remember, no funny stuff up in the trees. There's a time to work and a time to play. You need your wits about you when you're learning and working.



Anything that was high grade then is now high mid grade these days. Thi stick is now considered junk compared to what is available. Absolutely, I'm huge on safety I fear death at the highest levels. Clear minded is always more productive


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## climber338 (Apr 13, 2010)

oh ok that's smart im at stcc getting some of my gen eds out of the way and taking landscaping. Just got my letter on Saturday and ill be up there in the fall.

When i started climbing i went out an got a saddle, rope, prussic, throwline and all the hard where about a year ago. After that i got my spikes and started doing a few removals with an arborist. Start small and dong push yourself to hard at first because you will get discouraged. i know i did for a while but these things take time. I talked to Dennis up at umass and he said that the guys who come in knowing the basics of how to climb are way better off than the other guys who think they can just show up. Start climbing and ill see you up there some time when you get there.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

climber338 said:


> oh ok that's smart im at stcc getting some of my gen eds out of the way and taking landscaping. Just got my letter on Saturday and ill be up there in the fall.
> 
> When i started climbing i went out an got a saddle, rope, prussic, throwline and all the hard where about a year ago. After that i got my spikes and started doing a few removals with an arborist. Start small and dong push yourself to hard at first because you will get discouraged. i know i did for a while but these things take time. I talked to Dennis up at umass and he said that the guys who come in knowing the basics of how to climb are way better off than the other guys who think they can just show up. Start climbing and ill see you up there some time when you get there.



Most definitely man Ill let you know when I'm there, stay in touch


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I need to complete my basic Math and English 101 classes at my local community collage before I can be transferred to Umass so I'm looking at a year from nowish. And my SAT's
> 
> 
> 
> Anything that was high grade then is now high mid grade these days. Thi stick is now considered junk compared to what is available. Absolutely, I'm huge on safety I fear death at the highest levels. Clear minded is always more productive



Don't even get me started on Umass back in the day dude. I could write a book about that... We used to spider walk along the ceiling in the narrow halls when I was a kid...


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## climber338 (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Most definitely man Ill let you know when I'm there, stay in touch



oh ya man ill let you know whats going on while im up there. ive heard that Tuesdays is a 4 hour climbing lab and Thursday is a logging lab or something like that. Are you planning on going all the way or just get the associates degree?


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## climber338 (Apr 13, 2010)

tree md said:


> Don't even get me started on Umass back in the day dude. I could write a book about that... We used to spider walk along the ceiling in the narrow halls when I was a kid...



ya and the 10 TWIGS a week for id class and then 2 from the weeks before. my boss is an alum and he tells me stories of how he just squeaked by in allot of his classes. when did you graduate?


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 13, 2010)

I'll be sure to raise hell when I get there haha 

I don't know about how long I am goign for they did not really explain it to me like that. It was explained as a basic 2 years course that could be stretched to a 3 or 4. Can anyone explain this?


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## climber338 (Apr 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I'll be sure to raise hell when I get there haha
> 
> I don't know about how long I am goign for they did not really explain it to me like that. It was explained as a basic 2 years course that could be stretched to a 3 or 4. Can anyone explain this?



Well from what i heard is that you get into the stockbridge program and then after you "graduate" then you apply for your bachelors or masters degree. I am still a little fuzzy on it but thats what the dean told me.

Oh and ive already started to raise hell up there. its a great time.


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2010)

climber338 said:


> ya and the 10 TWIGS a week for id class and then 2 from the weeks before. my boss is an alum and he tells me stories of how he just squeaked by in allot of his classes. when did you graduate?



LOL, I'm a treeman, I didn't gadgiate from there, I just visited the dorms while my best friend was an Engineering major up there.... LOL!

I was community college all the way... Till I got to Georgia State.


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## climber338 (Apr 13, 2010)

tree md said:


> LOL, I'm a treeman, I didn't gadgiate from there, I just visited the dorms while my best friend was an Engineering major up there.... LOL!
> 
> I was community college all the way... Till I got to Georgia State.



ahhhhh ok well they sure are alot of fun if i do say so myself. ive been up a few times just to visit over the weekend and well get out for the night. Southwest is a rocking place to been on the weekends.


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## moss (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks for the favorable comments Bermie and everyone else. Been buried under day job work lately, coming up for air. 

Pink Floyd, I climb at least every weekend, possible days are Friday thru Sunday. I'm out of state last weekend of April. Possibly in May we can line up a climb. I get out to western Mass. frequently to climb so we should be able to work something out.

I've been climbing rope and harness 5 years, when I was a kid I climbed all over everything, up high etc. no ropes, probably true of many of the pro climbers here. I started climbing ropes in my late 40's, taught myself at first. Got over 20 feet the first time I climbed and was pumping adrenaline, couldn't believe it! As a geezer I'd become afraid of heights, also didn't trust gear. Ok the good news is that you can get over the heights, gradual process. If you love trees and working with them you can become a good climber if you work at it. Also... welcome to the human race, everyone's afraid of death, that's what keeps us alive  Seriously though the climbing will help put that in perspective, putting yourself in proximity to the threat helps you overcome it.

When I'm back beginning of May we'll work some thing out.
-moss


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 14, 2010)

moss said:


> Thanks for the favorable comments Bermie and everyone else. Been buried under day job work lately, coming up for air.
> 
> Pink Floyd, I climb at least every weekend, possible days are Friday thru Sunday. I'm out of state last weekend of April. Possibly in May we can line up a climb. I get out to western Mass. frequently to climb so we should be able to work something out.
> 
> ...



That's excellent news! I'm pumped, I know what you mean my whole childhood I was nicknamed the monkey I used to free climb trees (mostly pines) I was always swinging branch to branch, no idea how I never got seriously hurt. 

I definitely believe I can get over this height thing there's way too much on the other aside of the wall to give up over heights. Also if your confident on your rigging that helps I would assume. 

If you can open my eyes to heights and true climbing I just might sell all my DJ and sound reinforcement equipment for climbing gear, got a few thousand into it. No need for it if I'm climbing trees daily instead. 

Let me know!


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## moss (Apr 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> That's excellent news! I'm pumped, I know what you mean my whole childhood I was nicknamed the monkey I used to free climb trees (mostly pines) I was always swinging branch to branch, no idea how I never got seriously hurt.
> 
> I definitely believe I can get over this height thing there's way too much on the other aside of the wall to give up over heights. Also if your confident on your rigging that helps I would assume.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you'll do fine. Yep, confidence in your tie-in point and gear helps. Don't sell your DJ gear yet, I've been wanting to rig a band up into a tree, but a DJ would work as well for an arboreal tree party.
-moss


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## climber338 (Apr 14, 2010)

moss said:


> Sounds like you'll do fine. Yep, confidence in your tie-in point and gear helps. Don't sell your DJ gear yet, I've been wanting to rig a band up into a tree, but a DJ would work as well for an arboreal tree party.
> -moss



im liking that idea.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 14, 2010)

moss said:


> Sounds like you'll do fine. Yep, confidence in your tie-in point and gear helps. Don't sell your DJ gear yet, I've been wanting to rig a band up into a tree, but a DJ would work as well for an arboreal tree party.
> -moss



Exactly. And no problem haha I can have that trees leaves bumping off, but one thing... how are we getting the keg up there? 



climber338 said:


> im liking that idea.



I second lol


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 15, 2010)

I also noticed that at least free climbing wise, I feel much safer in pine trees EXP hemlocks. Relating back to my monkey skills I have very quick reaction times as far as grabbing onto things when I fall, I always have anchors in the back of my head before I do anything (I could grab there, here, and over there) number one priority is to drop equipment like saws and worry about grabbing a hold, I've done it false alarm and had to go all the way down and get my #### and bring it back up but it's better safe than sorry (within a limit if your on the clock $)


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## moss (Apr 15, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I also noticed that at least free climbing wise, I feel much safer in pine trees EXP hemlocks.



Yep, that's how it works, if you've done a lot of free climbing it's a little tough to get used putting your weight on the rope not the tree. I had trouble with the transition at first because my instincts said keep close to the trunk. Once you learn to trust the gear more you can get your weight off the tree, then you discover you have much greater mobility than you ever had free climbing.
-moss


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 15, 2010)

moss said:


> Yep, that's how it works, if you've done a lot of free climbing it's a little tough to get used putting your weight on the rope not the tree. I had trouble with the transition at first because my instincts said keep close to the trunk. Once you learn to trust the gear more you can get your weight off the tree, then you discover you have much greater mobility than you ever had free climbing.
> -moss



This sounds so awesome, I know what you mean by stay safe to the frame(trunk). I'm a footage junkie when it comes to archiving things so I'll be using this to my potential for getting that money shot during my filming... climbing everything with a harness to get aerial shots. 

I spent all week raking this huge yard for $100 so I'm going to buy a throw line & weight set I think. I'm not good at throwing things that high in a tree very accurately so I might take a trip to NH for a miniature cross bow like I saw in one of your videos, such a good idea.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 21, 2010)

*Vertigo*

I'm so dead on StockBridge I have started practicing overcoming my Vertigo because I realized I have it, really bad and I knew I would because my dad realized a long time ago I may be the older brother but I'm not going on the roof with him. I've been reading things like walking along the edge of the roof clapping your hands and consuming ginger in all forms really help it, who knows but I have to figure this out because I'm not going to let it stop what I like doing. Plus I've heard nothing makes you feel better than overcoming a life long fear and heights is mine. Must feel great to overcome a fear


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## tree MDS (Apr 22, 2010)

climber338 said:


> oh ok that's smart im at stcc getting some of my gen eds out of the way and taking landscaping. Just got my letter on Saturday and ill be up there in the fall.
> 
> When i started climbing i went out an got a saddle, rope, prussic, throwline and all the hard where about a year ago. After that i got my spikes and started doing a few removals with an arborist. Start small and dong push yourself to hard at first because you will get discouraged. i know i did for a while but these things take time. I talked to Dennis up at umass and he said that the guys who come in knowing the basics of how to climb are way better off than the other guys who think they can just show up. Start climbing and ill see you up there some time when you get there.



Gotta watch those typo's. all it takes is one wrong key... lol.


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## moss (Apr 22, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I'm so dead on StockBridge I have started practicing overcoming my Vertigo because I realized I have it, really bad and I knew I would because my dad realized a long time ago I may be the older brother but I'm not going on the roof with him. I've been reading things like walking along the edge of the roof clapping your hands and consuming ginger in all forms really help it, who knows but I have to figure this out because I'm not going to let it stop what I like doing. Plus I've heard nothing makes you feel better than overcoming a life long fear and heights is mine. Must feel great to overcome a fear



So... to be technical about it, vertigo is not fear of heights. Vertigo means you have trouble keeping balance. Vertigo will certainly make you afraid of height, it's the correct response when you can't balance very well. If you think you actually have vertigo you might want to chat with a doctor about it, you might have a fairly easy to correct (not surgical) inner ear problem for example. Diabetics get vertigo when their blood glucose levels are running too high. You get the idea, there can be various physical causes of vertigo none of which can be fixed by walking on rooftops clapping hands or consuming quantities of ginger 

A good thing to know is that being on rope reduces vertigo because the rope balances your body position (assuming your harness is well adjusted etc.)

If you don't actually have clinical vertigo you'll be able to overcome fear of height by gradually increasing your tolerance for it.

I hate being on roofs by the way, although dropping onto a roof from a tree while on rope is cake. Rope makes a huge difference how you feel at height.

Good idea to pick up a throwbag and throwline and start practicing. An unsolicited tip for you: after you throw into the tree, assuming that the bag comes down, untie the bag before pulling the throwline back out. Pulling the bag back through the tree when you first start throwing will sooner or later result in a hung throwbag. Once you start climbing getting a stuck throwbag can be a good thing, it gives you a challenge to go get it.
-moss


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 22, 2010)

moss said:


> So... to be technical about it, vertigo is not fear of heights. Vertigo means you have trouble keeping balance. Vertigo will certainly make you afraid of height, it's the correct response when you can't balance very well. If you think you actually have vertigo you might want to chat with a doctor about it, you might have a fairly easy to correct (not surgical) inner ear problem for example. Diabetics get vertigo when their blood glucose levels are running too high. You get the idea, there can be various physical causes of vertigo none of which can be fixed by walking on rooftops clapping hands or consuming quantities of ginger
> 
> A good thing to know is that being on rope reduces vertigo because the rope balances your body position (assuming your harness is well adjusted etc.)
> 
> ...



I pretty much just have the same symptoms at heights as people on the ground have with vertigo. I had tubes in my ears about 10 years ago and such. 

Your right I can relate to this (assuming) 

And I will keep that in mind, sounds fun.


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## treemandan (Apr 22, 2010)

millbilly said:


> Why would anyone recreation climb? If I'm climbing I'm getting paid. Never understood rock climbers either



get an office job, it will become clear then.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 22, 2010)

treemandan said:


> get an office job, it will become clear then.



How do people in office jobs find their way on the edge of a cliff anyway?


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## moss (Apr 23, 2010)

treemandan said:


> get an office job, it will become clear then.



Haha, that's so true. I'm pinned to a computer 4 long days a week, by the time Friday rolls around I'm desperate to climb a tree. From the minor tree work I've done here and there I've learned a couple things:
1. I probably wouldn't last, too physically demanding day-in day-out 
2. Ok say I did last, by the end of the week I'd probably have zero interest in climbing on the weekend for fun, I'd just want to alternate between sleeping and soaking in a tub.

For the daily work climber, what with stress from being in sketchy trees, messing around with huge chunks of wood over houses, dealing with customers, the boss, the weather, etc. etc. you might sometimes forget how great it can make you feel to get up into a fine tree and hang in the top with a nice breeze. I'm guessing that many of you don't ever forget that.
-moss


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 23, 2010)

moss said:


> Haha, that's so true. I'm pinned to a computer 4 long days a week, by the time Friday rolls around I'm desperate to climb a tree. From the minor tree work I've done here and there I've learned a couple things:
> 1. I probably wouldn't last, too physically demanding day-in day-out
> 2. Ok say I did last, by the end of the week I'd probably have zero interest in climbing on the weekend for fun, I'd just want to alternate between sleeping and soaking in a tub.
> 
> ...



That's a really good point, I got further off the ground... still no rope. When you get up high it really takes some getting used to I have to admit. This thing sways in the wind! Don't worry I'm not going to climb it again I just wanted a taste of heights.


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## Damon (Apr 29, 2010)

PF when i started climbing albeit on rocks not in trees when i was in highschool i was mortally terrified of heights i mean i froze up and got the spins you name it, but i loved the rush as i got bigger and got more intune with my abilities i grew to love the feeling of hanging in a saddle with nothing above or below i started to enjoy the rush of taking big wippers the freedom you get from climbing and being on rope is better then any drug you can imagine and im sure the other members here would agree with me on that, weve all been there at some point every one gets scared but thats kindof the fun of it its always good to scare yourself once in a while just make sure your safe when you do it.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 30, 2010)

Damon said:


> PF when i started climbing albeit on rocks not in trees when i was in highschool i was mortally terrified of heights i mean i froze up and got the spins you name it, but i loved the rush as i got bigger and got more intune with my abilities i grew to love the feeling of hanging in a saddle with nothing above or below i started to enjoy the rush of taking big wippers the freedom you get from climbing and being on rope is better then any drug you can imagine and im sure the other members here would agree with me on that, weve all been there at some point every one gets scared but thats kindof the fun of it its always good to scare yourself once in a while just make sure your safe when you do it.



Rocks I just could never trust with those wedges they connect to stuck in rocks. Connections and anchor sites I have to double, triple check, just like my front door when I leave my house. I'm hoping slowly over time I can get over it because I am not getting any bigger haha. I definitely lock up at a certain height and get the spins like I have alcohol poisoning or something. As long as I am confident on my connections I think it will help, you see... I have NEVER climbed on a rope or with a saddle. Totally free climber, as Moss said the trunk is my best friend but hopefully not for long


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 8, 2010)

Look what I bumped into this weekend, this may give me a better taste for heights! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Look what I bumped into this weekend, this may give me a better taste for heights! :hmm3grin2orange:



No but really this is overkill its 10x the tree line, what do you think? 500-800ft?


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

Probably illegal to climb that is what I think and being a timid little fellow like yourself would only compound the danger.

I think this thread belongs in the "Arborist 101" forum as this a little embarrassing reading this stuff to me. Go join the Marine Corps or another branch of service if they will take you at 20 years old and 115 lbs and come back when you grow up.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> Probably illegal to climb that is what I think and being a timid little fellow like yourself would only compound the danger.
> 
> I think this thread belongs in the "Arborist 101" forum as this a little embarrassing reading this stuff to me. Go join the Marine Corps or another branch of service if they will take you at 20 years old and 115 lbs and come back when you grow up.



Aw, man...come on. We all know I was joking, there is a fine line with my humor and some of you just don't get it. I'm not training to be a pilot I'd never ever need to get even close to this high....

:monkey:


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## Tree Pig (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> No but really this is overkill its 10x the tree line, what do you think? 500-800ft?



Grab a big tape measure, get up there and let us know what you come up with.


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Aw, man...come on. We all know I was joking, there is a fine line with my humor and some of you just don't get it. I'm not training to be a pilot I'd never ever need to get even close to this high....
> 
> :monkey:



Let me get this straight ..... this is the "Commercial Tree Care and Climbing" forum...

You have never done any commercial tree care or commercial climbing. 

I get it I think....you are a Sponsor and you are paying Arboristsite to advertise that video you have being flapping about forever? You think us seasoned arborists will drop a ten spot on your knowledge about the American elm.


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## ZWilkins (May 10, 2010)

500-800ft? C-mon man!


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> I get it I think....you are a Sponsor and you are paying Arboristsite to advertise that video you have being flapping about forever? You think us seasoned arborists will drop a ten spot on your knowledge about the American elm.



You know, your starting to become a real a**hole. I'm sorry I did not fall out of my mothers twat like you with a rope, saddle and a Arborist Certification. D***


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## treeman82 (May 10, 2010)

Um... I went to the Stockgbridge school... unless things have changed RADICALLY, there is a 1 credit climbing lab, which for the most part works on the basics... and then a chainsaw class which I believe was 1 or 2 credits. All the rest of your time is spent in lecture halls, labs, discussions, and doing some walks, field trips, etc.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treeman82 said:


> Um... I went to the Stockgbridge school... unless things have changed RADICALLY, there is a 1 credit climbing lab, which for the most part works on the basics... and then a chainsaw class which I believe was 1 or 2 credits. All the rest of your time is spent in lecture halls, labs, discussions, and doing some walks, field trips, etc.



There is allot more hand on labs now I have the class line up of courses in my hand, I can't wait I really have the self interest just no job right now


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> There is allot more hand on labs now I have the class line up of courses in my hand, I can't wait I really have the self interest just no job right now



and no experience ..... go over to 101 where you belong.

You have no reason to be in this forum with the big boys.


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## oldirty (May 10, 2010)

get'em tv! 


lol


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> and no experience ..... go over to 101 where you belong.
> 
> You have no reason to be in this forum with the big boys.



The whole point this is here is because more people are here = more advice. But with the good comes the bad as you just proved :greenchainsaw:


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> The whole point this is here is because more people are here = more advice. But with the good comes the bad as you just proved :greenchainsaw:



You don't get it.....we are not here to train you ("more advice")...we are here to converse with our peers. The 101 forum is for learning.

I'll give you some "more advice"...take your skinny little 115 lb. twat azs and head over the beginner's forum where you belong.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> You don't get it.....we are not here to train you ("more advice")...we are here to converse with our peers. The 101 forum is for learning.
> 
> I'll give you some "more advice"...take your skinny little 115 lb. twat azs and head over the beginner's forum where you belong.



What ever you say fatass, you made an enemy over nothing


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> What ever you say fatass, you made an enemy over nothing



No fat on my ass but it still weighs more than you do.

I am a 41 year veteran of this business and plain and simple you just do not belong here. Couldn't care less if your insignificant being sees me as an enemy.

Get some miles on and come back and let's see what you got.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> No fat on my ass but it still weighs more than you do.
> 
> I am a 41 year veteran of this business and plain and simple you just do not belong here. Couldn't care less if your insignificant being sees me as an enemy.
> 
> Get some miles on and come back and let's see what you got.



Pretty much I'll show everyone else but you because at this point I can give a s*** less about you and your snobby self (talk about self ego phewee)


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Pretty much I'll show everyone else but you because at this point I can give a s*** less about you and your snobby self (talk about self ego phewee)



If you are really looking to be a climber I will give a little advice whether you want it or not. Forget about your little sissy climbing school where they will wipe your nose and your ass and your mommy can come and make sure your being treated fairly.

Go out and find a top of the food chain tree service and offer your labor with the hope of being taught this trade. Give them unfaltering employment working harder than they pay you for. Don't be late or take days off or wine or complain. Be loyal and studious. Save your money and buy the best gear you can with what you have. Read live and sleep and train being a climber and when your chance comes....suck it up and do the best you can. They will likely start you low and slow. 

If this doesn't work you have not spent a cent and you have learned way more than becoming a climber even if you don't make it.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> If you are really looking to be a climber I will give a little advice whether you want it or not. Forget about your little sissy climbing school where they will wipe your nose and your ass and your mommy can come and make sure your being treated fairly.
> 
> Go out and find a top of the food chain tree service and offer your labor with the hope of being taught this trade. Give them unfaltering employment working harder than they pay you for. Don't be late or take days off or wine or complain. Be loyal and studious. Save your money and buy the best gear you can with what you have. Read live and sleep and train being a climber and when your chance comes....suck it up and do the best you can. They will likely start you low and slow.
> 
> If this doesn't work you have not spent a cent and you have learned way more than becoming a climber even if you don't make it.



It's a UMASS college course in Agriculture (bachelors or masters), the BEST in the country, don't believe me Google it. They teach you business ethics and a lot more than you think there is no nose for my diseased mother to wipe alright. Already tried handfuls of company's to intern for for FREE with no reply's so yaaaa


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> It's a UMASS college course in Agriculture (bachelors or masters), the BEST in the country, don't believe me Google it. They teach you business ethics and a lot more than you think there is no nose for my diseased mother to wipe alright. Already tried handfuls of company's to intern for for FREE with no reply's so yaaaa



Anything you can learn there you can learn through the ISA and their recommended list of books.

Forget about that intern stuff. Bet I could drive into your area and without telling anyone I had any experience I could get a job with one of the best tree companies in the area by going up to the owner and look him right in the eyes, even at my 61 years of age, and tell him I want a job with his company and just try me out for a day and watch me prove it. Put me on the hardest you have and give me the hardest job on that job. 

I bet I could get a job that day. I bet I could keep that job as long as I wanted it. Nobody on that job could outwork me.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> Anything you can learn there you can learn through the ISA and their recommended list of books.
> 
> Forget about that intern stuff. Bet I could drive into your area and without telling anyone I had any experience I could get a job with one of the best tree companies in the area by going up to the owner and look him right in the eyes, even at my 61 years of age, and tell him I want a job with his company and just try me out for a day and watch me prove it. Put me on the hardest you have and give me the hardest job on that job.
> 
> I bet I could get a job that day. I bet I could keep that job as long as I wanted it. Nobody on that job could outwork me.



Good for you clint eastwood


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## treevet (May 10, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Good for you clint eastwood



You live in a dreamworld son. Probably smoke induced.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> You live in a dreamworld son. Probably smoke induced.



Your 101% wrong, my father is who you just described in a different career, so if someone would give me a chance I'd prove it to them minus the heights.


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## mr. holden wood (May 11, 2010)

treevet said:


> If you are really looking to be a climber I will give a little advice whether you want it or not. Forget about your little sissy climbing school where they will wipe your nose and your ass and your mommy can come and make sure your being treated fairly.
> 
> Go out and find a top of the food chain tree service and offer your labor with the hope of being taught this trade. Give them unfaltering employment working harder than they pay you for. Don't be late or take days off or wine or complain. Be loyal and studious. Save your money and buy the best gear you can with what you have. Read live and sleep and train being a climber and when your chance comes....suck it up and do the best you can. They will likely start you low and slow.
> 
> If this doesn't work you have not spent a cent and you have learned way more than becoming a climber even if you don't make it.



PFE-
Truer words could not have been written. I had very little experience three years ago, I did exactly what treevet recommended. Today i'm a certified arborist run a four man crew and climb 5 days a week. 
Comments like these may sound harsh but it's a bit of tough love. Read between the lines, even a-holes on this site make some great points. Best of luck buttercup.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 11, 2010)

I understand this but working like that doesn't make you certified. Certifications make people instantly know you know your stuff without having to prove it to get a job.


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## mr. holden wood (May 11, 2010)

treeman82 said:


> Um... I went to the Stockgbridge school... unless things have changed RADICALLY, there is a 1 credit climbing lab, which for the most part works on the basics... and then a chainsaw class which I believe was 1 or 2 credits. All the rest of your time is spent in lecture halls, labs, discussions, and doing some walks, field trips, etc.




What a waste of time and money. I looked over the curriculum and it covers the same information you'll be getting when you need those CEU's . Only 2 credits covering climbing and cutting but you get to sit through a 4 credit course on Intro to turf management. The only way to know trees is to spend time in them, it doesn't look like you will be doing much of that.


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## treeclimber101 (May 11, 2010)

Honestly , you may be fooling yourself even trying to be a climber all the schools and fancy gear DOES NOT cure fears , if heights are a problem than thats a pretty big problem , the issue is your comfort and with fear of heights how do propose to work in safe manner when you don't feel safe .....Learning is easy for a willing participant but I would not dream nor waste your time if you said to me I'm afraid of heights .


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## oldirty (May 11, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Certifications make people instantly know you know your stuff without having to prove it to get a job.



oh man. i hope you really do not believe what you just said.

its those people you should be aware of. they are the ones who usually have the certs to cover up for the fact that they can not do the work.

all certified with zero skill is embarrassing really.


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## tree MDS (May 11, 2010)

This boy needs six months of brush dragging old school style.

If you survive that Pink, then worry about the rest..


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## treevet (May 11, 2010)

oldirty said:


> its those people you should be aware of. they are the ones who usually have the certs to cover up for the fact that they can not do the work.



Furthermore this is the main reason every nerd (pinkie), mom, housewife, spaz out there gravitates to this field. 

The reason initially this profession started making the premium buck is because of the intrinsic DANGER the climber faces day to day. Then to make it even more vulgar....they have such disdain and disrespect for that climber.

All these others that never face that danger or have any intentions to climb suck of that teat the climber provides by standing in the line of fire.

(unless you are a genius innovator that is giving earth changing research such as Shigo)


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 11, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> This boy needs six months of brush dragging old school style.
> 
> If you survive that Pink, then worry about the rest..



You kidding? I do that on a daily basis for the past 5 years... my fathers owns a professional landscaping company. 



treevet said:


> Furthermore this is the main reason every nerd (pinkie), mom, housewife, spaz out there gravitates to this field.



Seemed like a bunch of mumbo jumbo repeated bs, f*** you TV I'm not a f***ing nerd. I hate you


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## treeclimber101 (May 11, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> You kidding? I do that on a daily basis for the past 5 years... my fathers owns a professional landscaping company.
> 
> 
> 
> Seemed like a bunch of mumbo jumbo repeated bs, f*** you TV I'm not a f***ing nerd. I hate you



Easy now Hate is a strong word and besides ROGER WATERS is gonna be here for three nights in Nov..


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## treeclimber101 (May 11, 2010)

treevet said:


> Furthermore this is the main reason every nerd (pinkie), mom, housewife, spaz out there gravitates to this field. I think that I am two out of four of those things should I be offended?


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## tree MDS (May 11, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> You kidding? I do that on a daily basis for the past 5 years... my fathers owns a professional landscaping company.
> 
> 
> 
> Seemed like a bunch of mumbo jumbo repeated bs, f*** you TV I'm not a f***ing nerd. I hate you



Maybe you need to drag much heavier loads then.. and be yelled at some too..


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## treeclimber101 (May 11, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Maybe you need to drag much heavier loads then.. and be yelled at some too..



I like yelling at them while there walking past dragging heavy loads , that really makes them unhappy


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## tree MDS (May 11, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> I like yelling at them while there walking past dragging heavy loads , that really makes them unhappy



I have too much equipment to make it easy these days.

I got REALLY hammered on down in fort lauderdale with my crazy older brother as forman, in the middle of summer for my make it or break test.. I almost quit the first week! Made a treeman out of me though it did. all irrigation, all brush to drag, all day, every day (except sundays).


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## treevet (May 11, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Seemed like a bunch of mumbo jumbo repeated bs, f*** you TV I'm not a f***ing nerd. I hate you



You may thank me when you grow up


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## Mass tree guy (May 11, 2010)

I'm working on a pretty big sprinkler job in boston for Bartlett, anyway a kid from this school and passed the climbing class...


I lol'd when he told me some stories...



drag brush for a while and if you make it go for the climbing its what i did.


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## climber338 (May 11, 2010)

wow this thread went down hill quick sense Ive been to busy to take a look at the forum. guess i gotta stop working and going to school so much. no worries pinkfloyd i work with 3 of the most top notch guys out there and they are all educated. They KNOW everything and they are very good at what they do. champion climber, the nerd who knows every diseased and tree out there and then the old man who is kinda both and then me the brush dragger for now until our champion climber moves away. Stockbridge has a required internship with a large company such as Bartlett so you get your experience there. My game plan is to save up and then purchase all the needed equipment and then after i become old and decrepid ill go and teach at UMASS, UCONN or Paul Smith. Education pays off in the long run.


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## Damon (May 11, 2010)

just look at me i double majored in Electrical and Mechanical engineering with a minor in robotics...


Wait maybe you shouldnt look at me  but hell im doing what i love its not about the money here though the money sure does help


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 11, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Maybe you need to drag much heavier loads then.. and be yelled at some too..



I get yelled at enough which makes me not take anyone's s*** anymore. I drag the most I can and get nowhere because I am dragging for the wrong people because NO tree company will hire me to even drag brush or I would be there RIGHT NOW. 



treevet said:


> You may thank me when you grow up



No, no I don't think so If I do anything best its holding grudges, old timers like you that are just sarcastic aholes are EXACTLY the kind of teaching that school are trying to ban right now that's NOT how people learn efficiently. But all the learning research I'm sure is FARR too good for you to read right? Because you already know everything future and past....



climber338 said:


> wow this thread went down hill quick sense Ive been to busy to take a look at the forum. guess i gotta stop working and going to school so much. no worries pinkfloyd i work with 3 of the most top notch guys out there and they are all educated. They KNOW everything and they are very good at what they do. champion climber, the nerd who knows every diseased and tree out there and then the old man who is kinda both and then me the brush dragger for now until our champion climber moves away. Stockbridge has a required internship with a large company such as Bartlett so you get your experience there. My game plan is to save up and then purchase all the needed equipment and then after i become old and decrepid ill go and teach at UMASS, UCONN or Paul Smith. Education pays off in the long run.



Yup I have always been told education is the way to go, but if your really old and really stubborn then you will breach your old ways as for "back then" school was not needed. But I live in reality and 2010


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## treevet (May 12, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> But I live in reality and 2010



......and....hopefully back in the beginner's forum where you belong junior.

go on....get back in there.:deadhorse:


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 12, 2010)

*Truce*

Fine, ADMINS please move or close this thread. 

TV ~Peace


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## treeman82 (May 12, 2010)

You do realize that to teach you need at LEAST a masters, or a PHD. You can get an associates from Stockbridge, and then transfer to UMASS for a bachelors. I'm just trying to give you a little reality check here. If I was headed back in to stockbridge again, I'd be wanting to get comfortable with chemistry, more so than with climbing. Climbing is a VERY small part of what they teach you there... and there are quite a few people who will go in green... I honestly don't think that you need to "prepare" for the climbing class...


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## treevet (May 12, 2010)

Learning chemistry is like eating spinach...yeaach. Shigo has some good stuff out there for the layman.


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## treeclimber101 (May 12, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I get yelled at enough which makes me not take anyone's s*** anymore. I drag the most I can and get nowhere because I am dragging for the wrong people because NO tree company will hire me to even drag brush or I would be there RIGHT NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Guys like TV are the guys you often want to run over with a truck by "accident" of course , but are the ones that offer the most , and there are no free lunches in the real world and even free advice and experience has too be paid for somehow , and it usually through them yelling at you and breathing down your back like a rabid animal .... Remember this and thicken your skin and listen , you'll have your turn someday to torture the "JR"


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## climber338 (May 12, 2010)

Yup I have always been told education is the way to go, but if your really old and really stubborn then you will breach your old ways as for "back then" school was not needed. But I live in reality and 2010 [/QUOTE]

the old man (52) went though umass and he does not regret a thing about it. The first thing he said when he first hired me was why are you not at umass right now your wasting your time at stcc. The other 2 guys (33 and 25) both went to school and they know everything there is to know. Its the right thing to do and if you don't have the degree then your no arborist to me. i know im going to get crap for that but thats my honest opinion. Can guys with out degrees do the job? Of coarse they can but do they the knowledge of diseases, how to prune correctly or every botanical name you could think of? Maybe they can but if you hire somebody who is highly educated i believe that the customer is better off and thats what we do in this industry, serving the customer.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 12, 2010)

treeman82 said:


> Climbing is a VERY small part of what they teach you there...



Tell that to TV (if it will listen)



treeclimber101 said:


> Guys like TV are the guys you often want to run over with a truck by "accident" of course , but are the ones that offer the most , and there are no free lunches in the real world and even free advice and experience has too be paid for somehow , and it usually through them yelling at you and breathing down your back like a rabid animal .... Remember this and thicken your skin and listen , you'll have your turn someday to torture the "JR"



Sounds reasonable, some people just have the need to be sucked up to and such, and there for I find someone else, someone that doesn't get off yelling at people. My skin is thick but there's a line between thick and standing up, I'd fight a 8ft man, I know I will loose but I'm still not guna take peoples s***.



climber338 said:


> the old man (52) went though umass and he does not regret a thing about it. The first thing he said when he first hired me was why are you not at umass right now your wasting your time at stcc. The other 2 guys (33 and 25) both went to school and they know everything there is to know. Its the right thing to do and if you don't have the degree then your no arborist to me. i know im going to get crap for that but thats my honest opinion. Can guys with out degrees do the job? Of coarse they can but do they the knowledge of diseases, how to prune correctly or every botanical name you could think of? Maybe they can but if you hire somebody who is highly educated i believe that the customer is better off and thats what we do in this industry, serving the customer.



Amen to that brother


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## climber338 (May 12, 2010)

went up for the open house about 2 weeks ago and met up with some of the kids in the program. Stayed over night and went to a nice little party  with a few of them. The program is really nice and if i were you i would start learning your trees yesterday. If your good in your climbing labs then you can skip out on them until the final so if i were you get some gear and get up in the trees now. 

Do you work for anybody right now who climbs?


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## treevet (May 12, 2010)

climber338 said:


> > The other 2 guys (33 and 25) both went to school and they know everything there is to know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## treevet (May 12, 2010)

climber338 said:


> if i were you get some gear and get up in the trees now.



He's skeeered


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## climber338 (May 12, 2010)

treevet said:


> He's skeeered



well im willing to give him the benefit of the dought and he should just go for it. spend 500 on climbing gear and just go for a few hours at a time. The first time i went up i was scared my self but now 80 feet is nothing to me. Now im a secondary climber in our outfit because our top climber just moved away. All he needs to do now is gain experience and at 115 pounds he will be able to get out way farther than us 200 plus guys. If he sticks to it and has drive he will be just fine and most likely blow away the rest of us.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 12, 2010)

climber338 said:


> went up for the open house about 2 weeks ago and met up with some of the kids in the program. Stayed over night and went to a nice little party  with a few of them. The program is really nice and if i were you i would start learning your trees yesterday. If your good in your climbing labs then you can skip out on them until the final so if i were you get some gear and get up in the trees now.
> 
> Do you work for anybody right now who climbs?



I'm working at a local collage to complete my SAT's first. Then as soon as I can get another job I will invest in climbing gear, I work for knone who climbs or seriously I would be in a tree right now!  exactly 115 lbs IF I can get over my heights I will be able to go way out on the tips of branches

*TV*- Seriously get a life, a REAL life. I don't have the time to argue with you as for you clearly enjoy it so I'm done arguing with you. No wonder I am getting so many PMs telling me to just ignore you and that you have always been the know it all on this site. People around you are sick of you I have 7 PMs! Jeeze guy....



treevet said:


> He's skeeered



PS- There's a difference between scared and fears, now your just harassing me...way to be. I hope you feel better, who the hell used to pick on YOU when you were younger because clearly someone did...


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## treeman82 (May 13, 2010)

climber338 said:


> went up for the open house about 2 weeks ago and met up with some of the kids in the program. Stayed over night and went to a nice little party  with a few of them. The program is really nice and if i were you i would start learning your trees yesterday. If your good in your climbing labs then you can skip out on them until the final so if i were you get some gear and get up in the trees now.
> 
> Do you work for anybody right now who climbs?



They do take attendance in some classes FYI... If you missed a certain amount, you failed. Seeing as how they were 1 day a week labs, it was typically a good idea to go...


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## climber338 (May 13, 2010)

treeman82 said:


> They do take attendance in some classes FYI... If you missed a certain amount, you failed. Seeing as how they were 1 day a week labs, it was typically a good idea to go...



no its not a good idea but that is what one of he kids said when i spoke with him about it. The professor actually tells you not to come back for the final and to skip out on the labs. personally i would just go to them because you might pick up a little something every once and awhile that you will use from then on. Knowledge and experience make the climber and i have alittle of both so the labs will be a big help.


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## treevet (May 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I'm working at a local collage to complete my SAT's first. Then as soon as I can get another job I will invest in climbing gear, I work for knone who climbs or seriously I would be in a tree right now!  exactly 115 lbs IF I can get over my heights I will be able to go way out on the tips of branches
> 
> *TV*- Seriously get a life, a REAL life. I don't have the time to argue with you as for you clearly enjoy it so I'm done arguing with you. No wonder I am getting so many PMs telling me to just ignore you and that you have always been the know it all on this site. People around you are sick of you I have 7 PMs! Jeeze guy....
> 
> ...



I have always had real good radar for a bullschitter, and you got the guage sitting at the end of the movement (and a snitty little bullschitter with an attitude that never completes anything in a place where he does not belong)


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## tree MDS (May 14, 2010)

I've been thinking about starting a new thread entitled "why is it always the wuss bags" (or something like that).

You should see this thing I've got now.. I'm trying to figure out what made this cat wake up one day and decide he's gonna be a treeman! 

It gets pretty aggravating really..


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## treevet (May 14, 2010)

ha ha

and what was it you called Treemandan in the video forum thread about the video you never finished (or even started really)? I think you called him a Jackass for saying you were 14 years old from the picture of you. Hey I thought you would take that as a compliment. You could pass for 13 easy.


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## Blakesmaster (May 14, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I've been thinking about starting a new thread entitled "why is it always the wuss bags" (or something like that).
> 
> You should see this thing I've got now.. I'm trying to figure out what made this cat wake up one day and decide he's gonna be a treeman!
> 
> It gets pretty aggravating really..



He's young and small, but so was I when I started this gig. I'd take it a bit easier on the kid, guys.


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## ClimbinArbor (May 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I'm sorry I did not fall out of my mothers twat like you with a rope, saddle and a Arborist Certification.



Now THAT made me laugh! I got one of those mental pictures lol.



PinkFloydEffect said:


> I understand this but working like that doesn't make you certified. Certifications make people instantly know you know your stuff without having to prove it to get a job.



Your dead wrong on that one buddy. only through actual working experience do you learn something for sure. certification just means that youve read your books. We have several "certified arborists" running around spiking up maintenance trees and topping everything in site here in wichita. Of course the HOs just take the illegals doing the $1k jobs for $100 anyway!

Its a large problem Ive faced with engineers in heavy highway construcion when i was younger. Yeah sure they know how its "supposed" to work, but without hands on experience they dont know how it does work.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

treevet said:


> I have always had real good radar for a bullschitter, and you got the guage sitting at the end of the movement (and a snitty little bullschitter with an attitude that never completes anything in a place where he does not belong)



Oh god not you again, do you ever find something better to do then b***t like an old lady. Your immature bs meter is a FAILURE. People really do hate you here and have made it clear to me. I myself am not one to go behind someones back so I'm representing all 7 of them when I say we are sick of you!



ClimbinArbor said:


> Now THAT made me laugh! I got one of those mental pictures lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe in the south but in the city.... I duno its a 50/50 battle


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> He's young and small, but so was I when I started this gig. I'd take it a bit easier on the kid, guys.



Just give up hes a grump old fart that hates children like the guy that lives across the street from me (these people are psychotic because they were once a child but they reject this)

I'm just guna let him talk his talk obviously he has nothing better to do and has the need to talk down to someone.

I mean he sits there and talks s*** about my film obviously he docent know how long it takes to produce something good, I can tell hes a rusher, probably with his tree work too(that is if he has any time between getting off harassing young people).


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## Blakesmaster (May 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Just give up hes a grump old fart that hates children like the guy that lives across the street from me (these people are psychotic because they were once a child but they reject this)
> 
> I'm just guna let him talk his talk obviously he has nothing better to do and has the need to talk down to someone.
> 
> I mean he sits there and talks s*** about my film obviously he docent know how long it takes to produce something good, I can tell hes a rusher, probably with his tree work too(that is if he has any time between getting off harassing young people).



He may be an old fart and I may have my disagreements with him from time to time but there's a lot you can learn from him, pup. Watch the 'tude.


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## NCTREE (May 14, 2010)

You are all acting like a bunch of girls at the gossip gallery. Don't you guys have treework to do I know I do.:greenchainsaw:


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## tree MDS (May 14, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> He's young and small, but so was I when I started this gig. I'd take it a bit easier on the kid, guys.



I was just sayin that he seems to be missing the boat a bit.. heck I started out as a wimpy little bastard too (always kept up with the older guys though), but by the time I was 19 I was whipped into shape real good, climbing and practically running a crew.. by 20 I was a valuable production climber.

Time to get hot Pink! Its passing you by.. more workie, work, less smokie, smoke, cough, cough! lol.

Just get a job, you can always read books. You need some toughening up right now..


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## tree MDS (May 14, 2010)

NCTREE said:


> You are all acting like a bunch of girls at the gossip gallery. Don't you guys have treework to do I know I do.:greenchainsaw:



Of course we do! we are just taking time out of our busy schedules to offer our kindly advice to the young lad..


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## NCTREE (May 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I get yelled at enough which makes me not take anyone's s*** anymore. I drag the most I can and get nowhere because I am dragging for the wrong people because NO tree company will hire me to even drag brush or I would be there RIGHT NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> No, no I don't think so If I do anything best its holding grudges, old timers like you that are just sarcastic aholes are EXACTLY the kind of teaching that school are trying to ban right now that's NOT how people learn efficiently. But all the learning research I'm sure is FARR too good for you to read right? Because you already know everything future and past....



Treevets tactics for teaching are old school, he knows his #### you can learn alot from him. 

Thats the old way; scolding and nagging to get you to prove yourself and step-up your game.

The question is PFA: How bad do you really want to be an arborist? Your just gonna have to prove him wrong and everyone else thats doubts you. You pull that off then you can thank Treevet and punch him in the teeth in one fell swoop. It's a love hate relationship.


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## tree MDS (May 14, 2010)

NCTREE said:


> Treevets tactics for teaching are old school, he knows his #### you can learn alot from him.
> 
> Thats the old way; scolding and nagging to get you to prove yourself and step-up your game.
> 
> The question is PFA: How bad do you really want to be an arborist? Your just gonna have to prove him wrong and everyone else thats doubts you. You pull that off then you can thank Treevet and punch him in the teeth in one fell swoop. It's a love hate relationship.



Yeah, maybe one day Pink comes back slaps TV's dentures right out his mouth! lol.


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## NCTREE (May 14, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Of course we do! we are just taking time out of our busy schedules to offer our kindly advice to the young lad..



And good advice it is Just hope PFA can read between the lines, I know when I was at that age I knew everything when it came to making good choices.

PFA is a step ahead of the rest if he keeps his goals at such a young age and doesn't smoke his brains out. Everything in moderation my friend and you will still be able to do those things when you're 35.


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## treeclimber101 (May 14, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> He's young and small, but so was I when I started this gig. I'd take it a bit easier on the kid, guys.



I've seen your pic and that was many hard trees ago EHHHHH?


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> He may be an old fart and I may have my disagreements with him from time to time but there's a lot you can learn from him, pup. Watch the 'tude.



I understand this, but I would rather get advice from someone else, TV STARTED this argument with his words. I was nice for a while but then I snapped because he just is 99% negative toward me and I'm not taking that. My attitude I believe is fair for what he has said to me. Look how it progressed^ I even called a truce! 



tree MDS said:


> Of course we do! we are just taking time out of our busy schedules to offer our kindly advice to the young lad..



And I am extremely appreciative over that, but TV claims this is for educated conversation NOT help or advice (look up you will see his words) 
:hmm3grin2orange:



NCTREE said:


> Treevets tactics for teaching are old school, he knows his #### you can learn alot from him.
> 
> Thats the old way; scolding and nagging to get you to prove yourself and step-up your game.
> 
> The question is PFA: How bad do you really want to be an arborist? Your just gonna have to prove him wrong and everyone else thats doubts you. You pull that off then you can thank Treevet and punch him in the teeth in one fell swoop. It's a love hate relationship.



All hes taught me is how to be nice (be the opposite of him) literally he has got almost nothing good to say and I REALLY REALLY want to help trees and work in them, that's all I do is name their species as we are driving down the road I'm always looking at trees and their shapes and pruning styles. I love trees!



tree MDS said:


> Yeah, maybe one day Pink comes back slaps TV's dentures right out his mouth! lol.



I'm a passavist, I don't believe in violence BUT if someone threatens me feel free to punch me in the face I'm not going to run away and hide. 



NCTREE said:


> And good advice it is Just hope PFA can read between the lines, I know when I was at that age I knew everything when it came to making good choices.
> 
> PFA is a step ahead of the rest if he keeps his goals at such a young age and doesn't smoke his brains out. Everything in moderation my friend and you will still be able to do those things when you're 35.



I liek to present my questions on a low level of knowledge I am unexperienced and know close to nothing and give you people the fullest credit. Feel free to talk down to me on my questions just not like TV! And YES moderation is everything that's how you become a loser, theres time for play and time for work. By the way in my signature.. that's a rollie cigarette 



treeclimber101 said:


> I've seen your pic and that was many hard trees ago EHHHHH?



Nope that photo was taken a few month's ago, and you wonder why knone will hire me I look very young. But when I am an old fart guess who will have the pretty ladies  

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR POSITIVE FEEDBACK!


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## beowulf343 (May 14, 2010)

I'm not one to crap on getting an education. But i think the "arborist" colleges these days are doing a very poor job of preparing a graduate for the nitty-gritty of tree work. If you are planning on going on and becoming a professor, then fine. If you are planning to graduate and then take over a tree crew, that probably isn't going to happen for you, simply because you haven't been taught the skills. Sure it's nice to know the scientific names of tree or tree diseases, but i wish these colleges spent a little more time on knots, chippers, basic maintenance, saw usage, filing, raking, or one of the other hundreds of things needed to know to run a productive crew. 
A story, may be a little long, may be a little exaggerated, but over 20 college climbers have been run through my crew over the years and all these things have happened.


Here's how your first day is going to go:

You get up at 4 am. The girlfriend (or boyfriend) #####es that you shouldn't have to get up this early since you have a college degree, then rolls over and goes back to sleep.
You arrive at the shop by 5 am. You were told yesterday when you were hired that you were going to be running your own crew, but you are going to spend your first week on another climber's crew just so he can evaluate you and you can get a feel for things. You meet the climber and when he asks if you have your gear, you start bragging about your $500 worth of gear (not knowing he has over $10k invested in the tools of his trade.) He doesn't look too impressed and cuts you off telling you to load your stuff in the truck.
Halfway to the first job, the climber pulls over and tells you to hop into the other truck because he is tired of hearing about the stupid stuff you did in college that you think was cool. 
You arrive at the job by 6 am but are already feeling a little down because the groundies have told you repeatedly to shut the #### up, they are tired of listening to your crap. You do perk up a bit as you head to the back yard with the climber to check out the job. It's just an old oak that needs to be deadwooded. When the climber asks if you can handle it, you gush that it will not be a problem because one of your professors once talked about trimming a tree that was twice the size of this one. The climber just rolls his eyes and tells you to gear up. As you are pulling on your saddle, you notice the groundies pulling out a couple other ropes. You ask what those ropes are for and the climber looks a little pained. He tells you to pull a saw out of the saw box and he does seem to perk up a bit when you tell him you brought your own saw. His face falls as you pull out a handsaw.
The crew adjourns to the backyard while you spend the next fifteen minutes fiddling with your gear. As you enter the yard, you notice that it looks like the climber has started chain smoking. You set your line on the third try and quickly get up the tree. You are pleased with yourself and notice the climber is even smiling a bit now.
You get positioned to make your first cut. The climber asks if you want to rope it since there is a garage partially underneath the tree. You reply that a rope isn't needed, you'll just cut everything small enough to be handled, just like they taught you in college. The climber has stopped smiling. 
A couple hours go by. You feel you are making good progress. The groundies have had to run for cigarettes twice now for the climber. You're feeling thirsty, so start to come down for a water break. The climber asks what's up and when you reply, he says to stay put, water will be sent up. You are kind of irked-you really need a break since you have never spent more than two hours in a saddle before, but you decide to just suck it up. 
You keep working. Noon rolls around. The 300 pound owner shows up and starts yelling, wanting to know why you are still on a job that should have been done hours ago. The climber steps in on your behalf, calms the owner down and sends him on his way-maybe the climber is not such a jerk after all. You are feeling hungry so ask when lunch is. The climber replies you'll get a lunch when you've done a half a day's work. Ah, there's the guy you've come to dislike. You keep working but soon the groundies are complaining because you are cutting everything to the size of a pencil. You think they must be crazy-those uneducated apes don't know what they are talking about. You lay your handsaw on a piece of dead oak thicker than your thigh and the climber suddenly loses it. He tells you to get out of the tree, he'll finish the job. You think to yourself that you can finally take a break. But that dream is soon dashed when the climber tells you to start dragging brush. You angrily go to work, thinking to yourself that you were hired to climb. You are at first a little afraid of the chipper, but soon get into the swing of things, until you plug the chipper completely up. The groundies growl at you as they work to unplug it. Quicker than you would have believed possible, the climber is back on the ground and the tree is done. As the last of the wood gets chipped, he hands you a rake. You look at him dumbly wondering what you need to rake. You then get a very loud lesson on how to clean up yards. You think you hear him mutter a few words about the rake handle and your rectum, but you can't be sure.
You and the crew arrive at the next job. It's a medium sized box elder in the back yard that the owner wants taken down. As you and the climber are checking out the job, you realize that this may be a good time to impress him. You start rattling off the latin names and characteristics of the maple family. You see he isn't impressed, so you decide to pull out the big guns and start in on a lecture about the evils of removals that was very popular in college. He tells you the tree is just a weed and walks away from you while you are still talking. You are a little hurt, but soon see another target you can try the lecture on-the homeowner. You go running over and state your piece, proud that you've done your part to save this noble tree. You smile as you see the homeowner go over to talk with the climber but are surprised when the homeowner tells the climber that he still wants the tree down and if you guys don't want to do it, he'll find a different company. You think it was a little cruel when the climber tells the guy that you are an idiot and to just ignore you.
You do perk up though when the climber tells you to grab some spikes and go ahead and do the half of the tree that isn't over the fence. Maybe he thinks you aren't a total waste! You get the gear on in twenty minutes, record time for you. You see huge pieces of the tree are already on the ground so you hurry into the yard. The climber takes one look at you from up the tree and tells you to take your gear off and help the groundies. You are crushed, what did you do wrong? One of the groundies snidely ask if you were planning on climbing a hollow tree. That's when you realize your spikes are on the outside of your feet. You cover up you embarrassment by telling the groundie that since the proper way to climb trees was without spikes, this was only the third time you've worn them. The groundie may have muttered something about having to put up with another one who uses antigravity to chunk down stems.
After hanging the gear in the truck, you reenter the yard. The climber asks if you can run a rope. You have to honestly tell him no, so he tells you to start dragging brush. After your thirtieth trip to the curb, you begin to wish that someone had taught you to run a rope-it looks so much easier than dragging brush. Your daydream is rudely interrupted by the climber yelling at you to stop being a wuss and haul more than one piece of brush at a time. A dozen trips later and you are in the yard when a piece is roped almost right at your feet. You jump in to untie the know, but are having problems. The branch has rolled over and the bowline is not loosening up. After struggling for a few seconds, one of the groundies nudges you aside and with a quick wrist flip the knot is undone. Another thing you wished you had been taught.
The job goes smoothly, you have learned the tricks of the chipper and brush dragging from the last job. Plus you feel a burst of energy because it is almost 5 pm and you know the day is almost over. As you are putting the last of the ropes away, you excitedly mention to the climber that it's time to go home. He just looks at you and laughs. 


(continued)


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## beowulf343 (May 14, 2010)

You wonder what's going on during the ride, until you realize that you are pulling up to another job! Noooooo! You drag yourself out of the truck, a simple job, just two limbs on a silver maple hanging over a garage. The climber asks if you want to do it. You just shake your head no. You are too tired to say much and you realize the job will probably get done sooner if the climber does it. He tells you to grab the grcs. You stand there trying to figure it out. One of the groundies helps you. You can't figure out why you've never heard of such a handy tool. The climber can see you are barely walking, so tells you to back the chipper into the driveway. You think "such a nice guy." It takes you thirty minutes but you finally get it after only driving on the lawn twice. The homeowner then shows up and yells at you about the ruts in the lawn. Then the climber joins the refrain. You just nod dumbly, too tired to defend yourself. You do notice that the climber is no longer using your name but is calling you something derogatory that is not flattering to your lineage. 
The first branch hits the ground. You notice it's way to big to be dragged, and also notice that the groundies are just messing with something on the back of the chipper. This is your time to shine! You run and grab the first saw you see and head back to the yard. The groundies are hooking up a cable to the branch that runs to the back of the chipper? Oh, something else you wish you'd been taught. A groundie asks what you had planned to do with the 395. You realize that maybe a three foot bar is a little overkill. Then that damned climber from hell has to chip in again. He tells you that as long as you have it out, sharpen it. You are proud of yourself-he is trying to prank you but you can see right through it. You reply that it can't be sharpened since there is no grinder on the truck. The climber then said something that sounded like files and an enema, but the chipper started up just then and you missed it. 
Anyway, the job is finally done. You are headed back to the shop. You perk up a bit-it was a horrible day but it's almost over. Then that stupid climber has to ruin things for you again as you pull into the yard. First the crew has to fuel up the trucks and chipper. Then some maintenance. One of the groundies shows you how to grease the chipper. As you give the gun a pump, a gob of grease spurt out and lands on your Paul Smith's t-shirt. You are almost in tears. As you head to the sink to see if you can wash out the stain, you hear the groundmen wonder about your sexual orientation. You also hear the owner and the climber shouting in the office. As you finish at the sink, the owner comes out and walks over to have a few words. He says he knows the first day was rough, but he'd like you to come back tomorrow and work with a different crew. He also mentions that he'd like you to get the work done a little faster. You are only half listening since you are sure the owner is wrong because your professor always lets you take as long as you want in the tree. In fact, you think about giving the professor a call so you two can laugh about this fool who wants you to work faster. Working faster is unsafe, doesn't he know that.
You finally stagger home at 10 pm. Your supper is cold. Your girlfriend/boyfriend wants to go out and party. You two get in a huge fight when you tell her/him you can't. You are so sore you can barely stand! As the door slams behind her/him on the way out and you collapse on the couch, you realize that maybe college did not do a good job preparing you for this.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

*What?*

Have you even looked into StockBridges program at all? That's NOT how it works there. They are a division of UMASS (remarkably outstanding collage) and its the OLDEST and BEST arborcultural school in the US! Programs all over the world are interested in STOCKBRIDGES course content. You should read these brochures they sent me with their course lineup and recommendations by arborcultural teachers all over the US! I apply for almost every single financial aid category including instate tuition so I will have to pay practically nothing for my schooling. AT THE SAME TIME as working with arborists after classes for money WHILE going to school. Maybe not now but in MY LIFETIME lets say 20 years from now I bet you will be more required to be certified as time progresses school is more and more and more important well look down the line in 20 years when I am 40. PS- Nice signature!


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## beowulf343 (May 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Have you even looked into StockBridges program at all? That's NOT how it works there. They are a division of UMASS (remarkably outstanding collage) and its the OLDEST and BEST arborcultural school in the US! Programs all over the world are interested in STOCKBRIDGES course content. You should read these brochures they sent me with their course lineup and recommendations by arborcultural teachers all over the US! I apply for almost every single financial aid category including instate tuition so I will have to pay practically nothing for my schooling. AT THE SAME TIME as working with arborists after classes for money WHILE going to school. Maybe not now but in MY LIFETIME lets say 20 years from now I bet you will be more required to be certified as time progresses school is more and more and more important well look down the line in 20 years when I am 40. PS- Nice signature!



Lol, I wasn't trying to be insulting, just giving a humorous look at the hell a first day can be on a production crew. And you may be right, someday school and certifications may be the most important part of the job. But I have a feeling there will always be a place for the guy who can get the job done. Good luck on your endeavors.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Lol, I wasn't trying to be insulting, just giving a humorous look at the hell a first day can be on a production crew. And you may be right, someday school and certifications may be the most important part of the job. But I have a feeling there will always be a place for the guy who can get the job done. Good luck on your endeavors.



Thank you very much I found it interesting! I figure this, at 20 years old and the cost of schooling right now (almost nothing) financial aid will not be available when and IF I need it. Between 18-21 with my family's current income its a steal! ~Peace


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## treevet (May 14, 2010)

After the Reds game is over tonight I thought I might go over and hang out at the Rocket Scientist's Forum for a while. I was thinkin bout takin a few classes on Rocket Science at COLLAGE and .......man I really love it when they shoot them thangs off down there in Florida or somewhere.

I know they will all dig me hangin out with them. :yourock:


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

treevet said:


> After the Reds game is over tonight I thought I might go over and hang out at the Rocket Scientist's Forum for a while. I was thinkin bout takin a few classes on Rocket Science at COLLAGE and .......man I really love it when they shoot them thangs off down there in Florida or somewhere.
> 
> I know they will all dig me hangin out with them. :yourock:



How bout you butt out of this thread, you have a serious issue with self control and looking over something you don't agree with. Just IGNORE US! I don't "hang out" in threads I have more important things to do off a computer.... your the oldest immature being I know of, I don't want your advice, sarcasm, or anything for that matter so just move on already


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## Blakesmaster (May 14, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> How bout you butt out of this thread, you have a serious issue with self control and looking over something you don't agree with. Just IGNORE US! I don't "hang out" in threads I have more important things to do off a computer.... your the oldest immature being I know of, I don't want your advice, sarcasm, or anything for that matter so just move on already



But you gotta admit, PFE, that was pretty funny. And I got a kick and a half out of Beowolf's story too. Take college for what it's worth, you'll learn a lot about trees and biology and things I might never understand but you need to chill and realize that a production crew is a whole new world.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 14, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> But you gotta admit, PFE, that was pretty funny. And I got a kick and a half out of Beowolf's story too. Take college for what it's worth, you'll learn a lot about trees and biology and things I might never understand but you need to chill and realize that a production crew is a whole new world.



haha I'm just sick of people getting a laugh off this guy over me it's getting really really old now. 

I want to get the best of both worlds I'm hoping as far as the college and such. They call specialist in for a reason maybe I can specialize in something. All that means is I have to travel more in my job if I specialize in particular tree problems.


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## treevet (May 15, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> They call specialist in for a reason maybe I can specialize in something.



You're real good at bullschitting and you're already a specialist in that.

How about you start talking about what you have DONE 

Instead of always flapping about what you are GOING TO DO :fart: (that stinks)

Maybe then you get a little credibility after having the audacity to hang out in an experienced climber's forum when you probably have never even started a chainsaw let alone experienced any climbing. You make me gag little boy.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 15, 2010)

treevet said:


> You're real good at bullschitting and you're already a specialist in that.
> 
> How about you start talking about what you have DONE
> 
> ...



Listen this kinda BS is uncalled for, get a grip I can rebuild a chainsaw engine never mind starting one. You pick out 1 sentence then you just make up a buncha insults. You have a serious problem, a SERIOUS problem, just take your medication you will realize this world isn't such a bad place for you!!!!

Once again, you just COULDN'T handle overlooking this thread today....it' sad.


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## tree md (May 15, 2010)

Too funny Beowulf!

I won't knock anyone for getting an education but I have seen guys hired out of college struggle as well. I have to give Job Corps some props though. We used to hire quite a few out of Job Corps and they had an excellent working knowledge of the basics and could climb.


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## treeclimber101 (May 15, 2010)

I think what these fellows are trying to say is that school breeds a different type of tree worker , one who may or may not have the necessary skills to cope with the grueling riggers of everyday tree work , with that being said the experience of climbing trees can not be taught in books nor experienced through anyone elses eyes other than your own , I should know, I am the best climber on this site and thats a fact , jack....Check back later I am off to anger management class


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## outofmytree (May 16, 2010)

Beowulf - repped for an amusing description of a first day from hell. Or what it's really like in tree work!

TV. I hear you man.

Pink. Couple of things. First, this particular forum is commercial tree care and climbing so its fair to say you are underqualified in that regard. This thread would be right at home in arb - 101 which is probably TV's point all along. Second, you have been given good advice. If you don't like being growled at by old hands then don't ##### and moan about it, get in a tree a prove em wrong. Otherwise you are going to hear it over and over again.

This trade is hard work and often for little reward. As the business owner I prefer to take newbies with zero knowledge and skill but an abundance of enthusiasm and work them till they cry for Mommy. Then do it again the next day. If they are still smiling after 2 weeks we talk about education and they get that education from the best our state can offer. Over 2 years they learn knowledge and skills from others and how to grow callouses from me. IMO there is no other way to learn this gig.

If you are open to suggestions then try this one. Put down your keyboard and pick up your harness. Leave the saws on the ground and just climb. Best to do this with an experienced buddy who can help you over the many OMFG I am going to die moments. In between climbs go drag brush for minimum wage. When you have done this for a month, come back and ask for advice in arb101. You will have earned the right by then.


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## treevet (May 16, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Beowulf - repped for an amusing description of a first day from hell. Or what it's really like in tree work!
> 
> TV. I hear you man.
> 
> ...



:agree2:Well said and my points exactly, albeit more tactfully I must admit and apologize (through frustration from attitude and disrespect). Repped Doc.

This ain't no cakewalk and I have been around the block a time or two. If one is now going to reduce all this because of fear of heights or fear of work to finally deciding to become a traveling disease (1 disease?) specialist......

....well then head over to the "Plant Health Forum" and see how well you do over there with that group (with a bunch of "I am gonna do this and that stuff")....

I will be over there too as I have put the time in on that aspect as well over decades .....and that stuff ain't easy either (but you can do that as well without college).

Prior to understanding one must not just read about the disease but needs plant biology, physiology, mycology, anatomy, soil science, interaction with associates, environment, abiotic disorders, etc etc etc to get it....not just the downloading of a few paragraphs on the particular disorder.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 16, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Pink. Couple of things. First, this particular forum is commercial tree care and climbing so its fair to say you are underqualified in that regard. This thread would be right at home in arb - 101 which is probably TV's point all along.



I knew this before I posted but saw way more people in this forum so I thought I could get more advice. If everyone will stop posting it will just go away 

If a tree company, would hire me and pay me 1$ a day I would work for 2 weeks and not say a word but knone will even do that! Everywhere I go I get laughed at before I even get a chance to do anything it's not fair. I can drag brush believe me! That's all I have done for my dads landscaping company for 5 years now SOMEONE I WILL PAY YOU TO GET ME INTO A TREE! I just don't have $400 right now for climbing gear. Moss already told me he would so now I am just waiting.


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## PinkFloydEffect (May 26, 2010)

*Just for all the StockBridge dowters here is the paper work they sent me I scanned it in so you can read their overview.*


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## Josh777 (May 27, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect, I'll be honest, I haven't taken the time to read 12 pages of this thread but I've seen a few comments that lead me to believe that you need to get a little experience in climbing for as little expenditure as you can. So I'm gonna try and help you get started on as little as possible.

Here go's:

Arborist rope somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 200 ft. (this is probably going to be your biggest expense) $150-200

Entry level arborist saddle or if you are really broke but need something to practice in you can buy a rock climbing harness, but eventually you'll have to take the plunge and get an arborist saddle. (because of comfort issues, ansi standards, substantially more secure, and can carry larger gear ie. your chainsaw) Bare minimum rock climbing harness, $60 (for practicing climbing techniques only)

Pear shaped locking biner for main attachment $16-20

Learning a tie in knot, like the anchor hitch (leave a long tail to tie a blakes) FREE

Learning the blakes hitch (your friction hitch to capture progress) FREE

Prussik knot (for foot loop below blake's, if needed) FREE

Education on using doubled rope technique (search around the boards) FREE

----

I hope some of this helps you. If you can't afford these things then you can't afford to climb safely, yet. Get your education and stuff, but remember, like the rest of these guys can attest, you'll really learn from you hard knocks and experience, not to mention from other people in the know.

As for a fear of heights. Take one distance and conquer your fear of it then once you get comfortable, take the next step.

As for bee's; it goes with the job, even if you're allergic you'll need to keep a calm head on your shoulders and get down safely. 

Practice low and slow. Be Careful and Best Of Luck!

-Josh


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## jmack (May 27, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> Hi I am very interested in getting into the trees and would love to get some hands on before I make it into StockBridge School of Arborculture. What should I buy to start off with and practice climbing, I know there are many techniques and many forms of gear but I am terrified of heights and allergic to bees I do not want to panic while I am in a tree. I must also stress I DO NOT want to harm a tree in any way so where do I start?



get a summer job at a tree service mention you might attend school when done with the job say it only once and to the owner, learn the trade by using your eyes and ears and being queit and paying attention at all times, my advice is try stuff before you buy stuff, you will have opportunities, good luck!


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Jun 3, 2010)

I did not read the whole thread but do not buy anything yet. I am a Stockbridge and UMass grad. The school provides everything necessary, Prof. Kane will teach you well. Being that you have never climbed before why invest into something that you don't even know you would like to pursue as a career? The school provides a variety of gear for you to use. Use that to find out what you like and do not like. There are some good kids in Stockbridge right now that can teach you a lot. Don't be afraid of Han she doesn't bite.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Jun 3, 2010)

Lawnmowerboy48 said:


> I did not read the whole thread but do not buy anything yet. I am a Stockbridge and UMass grad. The school provides everything necessary, Prof. Kane will teach you well. Being that you have never climbed before why invest into something that you don't even know you would like to pursue as a career? The school provides a variety of gear for you to use. Use that to find out what you like and do not like. There are some good kids in Stockbridge right now that can teach you a lot. Don't be afraid of Han she doesn't bite.



So I can use their equipment to try before I buy their program? I just don't have any access to gear to try it out.


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## jmack (Jul 2, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> So I can use their equipment to try before I buy their program? I just don't have any access to gear to try it out.


 you may want to attend a climbing jamboree to watch much different pace as you will see, btw the ct summer meeting usually has buckets and lifts to try, the climbing eq. vendors would probally let you try the gear at the bigger trade shows they always have a rope set up so you watch demos and hang in gear. you might be close for the summer meeting good luck


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## jmack (Jul 2, 2010)

jmack said:


> you may want to attend a climbing jamboree to watch much different pace as you will see, btw the ct summer meeting usually has buckets and lifts to try, the climbing eq. vendors would probally let you try the gear at the bigger trade shows they always have a rope set up so you watch demos and hang in gear. you might be close for the summer meeting good luck



meeting july 15 go ctpa for the? cya


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## PinkFloydEffect (Jul 8, 2010)

I am just getting my first car on the road and I just got a new job so I will be able to attend these things now shortly.


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## jmack (Jul 13, 2010)

PinkFloydEffect said:


> I am just getting my first car on the road and I just got a new job so I will be able to attend these things now shortly.



good on ya fella , there is always a stockbridge booth at the summer CTPA meeting, it is in farmington ct, and i trust you have checked out their site for driving directions to the show ayuh good luck


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## PinkFloydEffect (Jul 20, 2011)

Well.... that fell through 

I'm going to have too much of a vertigo problem with tall jobs, BUT for any of you that have followed my threads this is not going to stop my dedication for trees. The town I grew up in (bordering my current residence) needs an assistant tree warden on a as needed basis, IT'S A FOOT IN THE DOOR! I filled out an application and submitted my resume too with all my volunteer work and such. All the requirements are is a drivers ID, high school diploma or equivalent, and experience operating power saws and power tools but when they realize what I already know.... who knows (I hope)


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