# Does Appearances Matter In This Industry?



## StihlRockin' (Apr 1, 2009)

I have a buddy who is a tree service business owner, but also does work for others as an employee. He downsized his operation over the years chasing other things and is now back in it again. While talking he tells me in his own business his appearance means little. He has a thick mustache, a pointed thick ungroomed pointed beard, long hair and wears a bandanna. I on the other hand normally have short hair, smaller groomed 'stache and no facial hair or beard.

We got to arguing about the importance of it, grooming habits and the cleaner look and quickly realized he has no issues with his "appearance". I've always adopted the idea and see it all over the place, but the cleaner more "professional" look is the way to go in business. Now I've had employees who looked as rough and it bothered me some because it doesn't make the crew look professional when they look like a sentence-to-serve bunch of inmates. LOL! I helped the problem by offering shirts that are the same color along with matching hard hats... and try to get the guys to wear Levis in a lighter to normal blue color. It offers uniformity, better appearance and better than wind-breaker pants... as some have worn. The shirts I offer along with what I wear are short sleeved polo or golf shirts. They have the collar and have about 3 buttons up front.

What are your opinions and *experiences* about keeping up appearances to present a more professional image? Do you think having the traditional clean look is important in our profession?

What sort of experiences have you had in either scenario that might shed light on the situation?

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## spankrz (Apr 1, 2009)

in work like a tree service, a polo might be a little extreme, but i would say clean shaven with a company t-shirt and blue jeans would give a professional appearance.


----------



## bigtreeguy (Apr 2, 2009)

Ya, I think a professional appearance is important. I have my crew wear matching T shirts and blue jeans (the dark blue hides soil and oil better). 
It goes farther than dress code though. Clean well maintained trucks and equipment. Nice bid sheets and invoices. Any way that you can set yourself apart from the competition.
Of coarse, some customers will seek out the cheap rundown company, thinking that is where the bargain will be found.


----------



## Tree Pig (Apr 2, 2009)

which guy would you want to hire. All else even (price, cert, Insurance, Experience)

Choice #1

Choice #2


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 2, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> which guy would you want to hire. All else even (price, cert, Insurance, Experience)
> 
> Choice #1
> 
> Choice #2



Hmmmmmmmmmmm well I don't need a notebook writer so the first but he needs a real saw lol.


----------



## tree md (Apr 2, 2009)

I think it is important. Especially where I live in the conservative bible belt. I wear my hair short but I do wear a neatly trimmed beard. I think a beard is OK for a tree guy. Hey look at Paul Bunyon. 

Also, people here don't like tats. Now I have nothing against them and have thought about getting one when I retire but for now I'll stay clean cut and try to talk like the man on the 6 O'clock news.

Not an issue with my crew. One of them was Army for 8 years and a Master Sargent and the other one is a country boy from GA with short hair like me. I also have a clean cut young guy that the women seem to adore. Plus my dad works with me a lot. I don't think I've ever seen his hair over 2 inches long.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 2, 2009)

tree md said:


> I think it is important. Especially where I live in the conservative bible belt. I wear my hair short but I do wear a neatly trimmed beard. I think a beard is OK for a tree guy. Hey look at Paul Bunyon.
> 
> Also, people here don't like tats. Now I have nothing against them and have thought about getting one when I retire but for now I'll stay clean cut and try to talk like the man on the 6 O'clock news.
> 
> Not an issue with my crew. One of them was Army for 8 years and a Master Sargent and the other one is a country boy from GA with short hair like me. I also have a clean cut young guy that the women seem to adore. Plus my dad works with me a lot. I don't think I've ever seen his hair over 2 inches long.



Ya mean he has hair man I gotz to get me some rogain


----------



## thejdman04 (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree with what is said above. Theres a fine line. You dont need to wear a suit and tie, but if you walk up looking like a total slob smelling like bo (at the beginning of the day) etc even if you do quality work people will still be hesitant to recommend you .


----------



## TDunk (Apr 2, 2009)

Same hear. I try not to go look at jobs in dirty, sap covered pants and saw dust falling out of every crease in my body (unless it's a neighbor etc.) I call it "working class professional" Clean blue jeans, clean-ish boots, shirt with co. name on it, shirt tucked in, and a belt. To me at least, if you look more professional they are less likely to argue about the price. If you take pride in yourself, they'll assume you take pride in your work too. Read that some where.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2009)

I'v had people compliment me on a professional look. Many seem to take a person more serious if they are dressed for what they do, but are presentable when they are there.

My pet peeve is the heavy metal concert shirt and dirty ripped-up jeans, old camo utility pants run a close second.

I may not trim my face every day, but my clothes are serviceable and thy look like sturdy work ware. If you look like a garbage picker; do not complain when the public treats you like one.


----------



## KD57 (Apr 2, 2009)

Appearance is very important. If you can't sell yourself, you can't sell the job.


----------



## squad143 (Apr 2, 2009)

Like the saying goes; 

You never get a second chance to make a first impression.


----------



## TheLumberJack (Apr 2, 2009)

I just try to look as sexy as possible.



....seriously


----------



## TreeTopKid (Apr 2, 2009)

Logo marked polo shirts, long sleeved polo shirts, and logo marked bomber jackets. If you're not wearing them after I've gone to the expense, go home, and while you're there take that earing out of your tongue.

If I'm consulting with a client dress shirt, and nice slacks or khakis. Occasionally straight from work with a fresh polo, and more deodorant (very occasionally).


----------



## StihlRockin' (Apr 2, 2009)

I wanted to expound more on his appearance...

I don't have a problem with long hair, as I've had several guys work like that, but they had it combed and tied back. My buddy, he let's his flop every where and is constantly messing with the bandanna to keep his hair in order.

Facial hair don't bother me much either. In fact, some guys pull the look off quite well. My buddy, his looks like 3 week old uneven growth as his cheeks don't have as much follicles per square in, so it's sparse.

The beard look actually looks cool to me on some guys, but their beard is groomed, looks clean and shaped well. My buddy, his looks like a pointed bush at the point of his chin looking like he's going to play a role as some homeless person begging for change.

I have a small mustache groomed and see others with thicker too, but our 'staches are very presentable. My buddy, I've seen dripping boogers land in his, along with food, etc and he just wipes it off with the back of his hand and wipes it on the side of his pants. It's so thick parts of it curl into his mouth and others jut into his nostrils.

I also bring this up because he noticed he didn't get many jobs last year as compared to in the past. It's not my place to comment on his appearance and all, so I just let my comments rest with me. It's interesting that he gets asked for his insurance certificate much more than me though. LOL!

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## LTREES (Apr 2, 2009)

I worked in NJ for a guy in 95' and it was clean shaven every day (sm mustach was ok) or go home. I climbed over houses worth $$$ when I was with him. It was a very clean cut biz and we always had work in the high society.

LT...


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2009)

Snotcicles in the stash are just something that happens when it is cold. When I am in the tree, yeah, I use a sleeve. Most people understand that part of it.

I do keep several "clean" shirts in the truck, so that I have something to change into if the need arises.


----------



## treemandan (Apr 2, 2009)

LTREES said:


> I worked in NJ for a guy in 95' and it was clean shaven every day (sm mustach was ok) or go home. I climbed over houses worth $$$ when I was with him. It was a very clean cut biz and we always had work in the high society.
> 
> LT...



I wonder if he has changed his policy.


I am not one for ragged looking clothes and by all means you should wear clothes. 

Its all in the eyes anyway. Stuff like that. Language too. I guess when going for high society you have to ham it up so I have to ask: Is this guy who wants a clean shave a ham?


People say " Oh you are growing a beard" I say " No, I just don't shave... very often, its a pain in the ass"
Also the dirt on my pants comes from the Homeowner's property, I have HIS dirt on MY clothes. He should be more concerned about that than I am.


----------



## LTREES (Apr 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I wonder if he has changed his policy.
> 
> 
> I am not one for ragged looking clothes and by all means you should wear clothes.
> ...



He's dead now, a massive heart attack, face down into a T-bone steak. For the rest of the crew, they reformed with a new name and I do keep in touch with them. I assume they keep some standards but I think they can keep a trimmed goatee if desired. For me I shave 1-2 times a week. The top is faded so I clip it short. I am a stickler with LANGUAGE if you can't watch your mouth on some one Else's property, you can't work with me!!! I do all of my sales and climbing so the HO deals with me. My main guy is some times ruffer than I but he speaks with knowledge of tree work, and lately he has cleaned up alot. So we are a not a ratty looking group, attitude and language is more important I think.

LT...


----------



## LTREES (Apr 2, 2009)

*I am not one for ragged looking clothes and by all means you should wear clothes.*

I see some guys work shirtless, I don't get it. A friend of mine also climbs shirtless and he is really good. 

LT...


----------



## Nailsbeats (Apr 2, 2009)

LTREES said:


> I see some guys work shirtless, I don't get it. A friend of mine also climbs shirtless and he is really good.
> 
> LT...



It's when they start going comando that you have to watch out.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Apr 2, 2009)

Being clean shaven or not doesn't reflect on cleanliness that's a personal but if your beards ZZ top kind of size you need to hold that back with a cable tie. You don't want it in the chain lol.


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 2, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> which guy would you want to hire. All else even (price, cert, Insurance, Experience)
> 
> Choice #1
> 
> Choice #2


They both look like off the clock rednecks to me.............lol 

But, the first guy shows proof that he ain't scared to get dirty.


As for me, I don't care how they look or what they wear as long as it a maintained look, no vulgar language on the shirts, no saggy pants, no ripped torn up jeans and absolutely no wife beater shirts, the sleeves stay on or you stay at home. No horsing around, no unnecessary loudness and no cursing what so ever. Me personally I do wear a bandanna sometimes when working to keep sweat out of my eyes but when I give quotes I try to look decent.


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 2, 2009)

i just wear my work boots pair of levi 501s and a t-shirt tucked in with a flannel over it. and depending on what im doing i may wear a hardhat. i think anything more than that might be considerd anal


----------



## arbor pro (Apr 2, 2009)

Appearance matters in any profession that deals with the public. If you're trying to portray yourself as a rough and tumble, tough-guy tree cutter - a pair of ripped jeans, an un-tucked metallica t-shirt, greasy unkept hair and a few tattoos would probably get you more respect than if you were clean-shaven and wearing a pair of khakis and a polo shirt. However, it may not appeal to your target clientel. 

The question to ask yourself is this - Are you marketing your services to a bunch of rough and tumble streetfighters who walk around in ripped jeans and baggy metallica t-shirts or are you marketing your services towards clean-cut middle and upper-income folks who walk around in khakis and polo shirts? 

Know your market and dress for success - whatever that dresscode may be...


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 2, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> Appearance matters in any profession that deals with the public. If you're trying to portray yourself as a rough and tumble, tough-guy tree cutter - a pair of ripped jeans, an un-tucked metallica t-shirt, greasy unkept hair and a few tattoos would probably get you more respect than if you were clean-shaven and wearing a pair of khakis and a polo shirt. However, it may not appeal to your target clientel.
> 
> The question to ask yourself is this - Are you marketing your services to a bunch of rough and tumble streetfighters who walk around in ripped jeans and baggy metallica t-shirts or are you marketing your services towards clean-cut middle and upper-income folks who walk around in khakis and polo shirts?
> 
> Know your market and dress for success - whatever that dresscode may be...



i think the kahki and polo shirt are overkill no matter how you put it. its like wearing a tux to a burgerking interveiw. there isnt anything that i can see as being unprofessional about levi 501 jeans with steel toed work boots and a tucked in shirt with a flannel. that way your actually dressed for what your doing a little better than showing up to clear some trees wearing slacks and a button up shirt with a tie. unless your an accountant.


----------



## LTREES (Apr 2, 2009)

*i think the kahki and polo shirt are overkill no matter how you put it. its like wear*

I think that's a little unfair, you are talking about apples and oranges. I went to a climbing interview in a suit and tie. That showed I was willing to put my best foot forward for his co. Would I sell like that? NO. The man could tell if he wanted me to climb for him or not just by talking to me. I left his business face to face too. That's one reason if I ever needed a job all I have to do is show up in the morning with my gear, and I'm hired again. (the foreman is the boss now) But as for the public, your many targeted areas, be neat and honest.

LT...


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 2, 2009)

LTREES said:


> I think that's a little unfair, you are talking about apples and oranges. *I went to a climbing interview in a suit and tie.* That showed I was willing to put my best foot forward for his co. Would I sell like that? NO. *The man could tell if he wanted me to climb for him or not just by talking to me.* I left his business face to face too. That's one reason if I ever needed a job all I have to do is show up in the morning with my gear, and I'm hired again. (the foreman is the boss now) But as for the public, your many targeted areas, be neat and honest.
> 
> LT...


so the suit was unnecessary then , is that what your saying?

When I was GF and had to interview people if you came in with a suit and tie my first impression would be that you might be pretty boy that might be scared to get dirt under his nails. I could see the suit & tie for an office job or even a manger at Burger King but tree work, IMO it's over kill. I wear blue jeans or tan Carhartt jeans most of the time with my work boots and a t-shirt with my logo on it and a ball cap and it works fine, clean, neat and presentable is the ticket.


----------



## LTREES (Apr 2, 2009)

*Rf*

Not that the suit was unnecessary, that's the way I interview. I think that it shows I'm serious about his company, trying to put your best foot forward. After talking for a while he said I could start tomorrow. I also had a resume to show what I've done. How many go to interviews with a resume. I don't believe I needed all that. I do believe it put the icing on the cake. That is getting the job, running the job is dealing with the public as I described before. It is what I've been taught, and yes it does turn heads. I was raised on a farm and I showed them I had no problem getting dirty. I ain't pretty, I'm handsome. LOL

LT...


----------



## md_tree_dood (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree that appearance is important. It's funny though that most "tree guys" I see are anything but professional looking.

What's amazing to me is that you guys wear blue jeans to work in. I wore blue jeans for about a month and then realized they were the least functional most uncomfortable thing you can possibly wear.


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 2, 2009)

*Blue jeans*

I wear lose fitting jeans, they are pretty comfortable.


----------



## limelakephoto (Apr 2, 2009)

I pick number 1.
Because He has smokes, and I don't think he looks afraid to get dirty.
#2 looks like a buisnessman, he looks like he might "B.S." me too ripp me off.


----------



## teamtree (Apr 2, 2009)

It probably doesn't really matter in the end. 

It is nice to have a professional looking crew but at the end of the day, it is price that gets the job....in most cases.

I work with a guy and he could care less what his crew looks like, me on the other hand, I make sure all my guys have a company shirt, sweatshirt and jacket. But that is my personal choice.


----------



## tree md (Apr 2, 2009)

:agree2:

Or so it would appear these days.

FWIW I had a potential client balk at my bid to remove a large dead removal with zero drop zone over the house and right up next to the privacy fence. The area where the tree grew had about 4' of room between the house and privacy fence on the side and the only way to remove it safely was with a crane. The contractor who was remodeling the house to resell told me he was going to just hire a good old "tree guy" to do it... His exact words.


----------



## md_tree_dood (Apr 2, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> I wear lose fitting jeans, they are pretty comfortable.



And when you sweat those jeans turn add an extra 5 pounds on your legs I bet. At least that was my experience when I started and was wearing jeans.


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 2, 2009)

well in most cases the best time of the year to do cutting is between fall and spring so its generally cold. work jeans are tough, presentable , and durable. comfort is what you may call "icing on the cake" obviously sweatpants or shorts would be most 'comfy' but there not suitable. and i think flannels are a nice touch as well.


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 2, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> And when you sweat those jeans turn add an extra 5 pounds on your legs I bet. At least that was my experience when I started and was wearing jeans.


I don't sweat bad so that's not a problem.

As for shorts, I have worn the will mowing but only during the very hottest days, I would never wear them on tree work though.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Apr 2, 2009)

*Apearances DO matter*

Especially in language. I agree that polo shirts and khakis are overkill, a clean company shirt and blue jeans are good enough...and expected. But regardless what you look like, it's how you speak to your potential client. If you sound like a dumb redneck, you'll get hired at dumb redneck prices.


----------



## treemandan (Apr 2, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> It's when they start going comando that you have to watch out.



Yeah, that would be a problem but what kind of life is it when you can't be yourself?


----------



## Blakesmaster (Apr 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yeah, that would be a problem but what kind of life is it when you can't be yourself?



That could actually be a selling point for the right clientele. Naked tree guys? C'mon who DOESN'T want to see that?


----------



## treemandan (Apr 2, 2009)

I wouldn't let treeguy number one anywhere near me or my accomplisses and treeguy number 2 looks like he keeps the pole saw up his butt, way up. He probably don't want me around him and I don't blame him, nope.

So I guess appearances do matter but keep polyester out of it please?


----------



## treemandan (Apr 2, 2009)

tree md said:


> :agree2:
> 
> Or so it would appear these days.
> 
> FWIW I had a potential client balk at my bid to remove a large dead removal with zero drop zone over the house and right up next to the privacy fence. The area where the tree grew had about 4' of room between the house and privacy fence on the side and the only way to remove it safely was with a crane. The contractor who was remodeling the house to resell told me he was going to just hire a good old "tree guy" to do it... His exact words.



SO how did it go? I like to follow up on these types, believe it or not the guy they get usually has a very hard time, and he is doing for less than I was gonna.


----------



## tree md (Apr 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> SO how did it go? I like to follow up on these types, believe it or not the guy they get usually has a very hard time, and he is doing for less than I was gonna.



Not sure Dano. I haven't been back to see if the job has been done. Lots of risk in that one as it had been dead for awhile. When I got there the contractor told me that if the tree hadn't been so risky they would have just called a good old "tree guy" to do it. I told him that I was a good old "tree guy" (you'd of had to been there). I think I quoted him $3200 for a complete removal but I threw in a medium sized pine that he wanted gone in the front yard for that price. Not a bad price for a large crane removal and a medium pine. The guy was a cheap skate though. He didn't want to pay what it was worth to me so I moved on and never looked back.


----------



## gr8scott72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Especially in language. I agree that polo shirts and khakis are overkill, a clean company shirt and blue jeans are good enough...and expected. But regardless what you look like, it's how you speak to your potential client. If you sound like a dumb redneck, you'll get hired at dumb redneck prices.



LOL, I wondered if anyone else would catch the does instead of do thing. (Read thread title again if you didn't catch it.)


----------



## corsair4360 (Apr 2, 2009)

*How You Look / Act*

My two cents... When you are driving in a company truck with the company name on it, or any interaction with a customer where you can be associated with the company appearance counts. Example: If you are driving down the road in a beat up filthy truck with stuff just piled in it haphazardly and the name of the company on it, people notice, and the impression is not positive. I for one don't do business with companies that appear to not care unless somehow they overcome that bad initial impression. Same is true if you cut me off or behave in a way I consider improper on the highway. Some may not like that but I still have some choice how and where I spend my money (for now)..


----------



## StihlRockin' (Apr 2, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> What's amazing to me is that you guys wear blue jeans to work in. I wore blue jeans for about a month and then realized they were the least functional most uncomfortable thing you can possibly wear.



I disagree. Wear Levis 550's or 560's and you'll have nice jeans that are loose and comfortable to work in. They have plenty of leg and thigh room to move around without any restrictions like tighter fitting jeans. Guess it depends on what kind/style of jeans you get. SilverTab Baggy is a loose fitting jean as well.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Arborwear pants, clean t-shirt, clean cut, beard in winter, mustache and gotee in summertime. Nice, courteous, and respectful to all customers and even those who would test the patience of a nun. Talking to customers at an appropriate level for their interest in the work they want you to do.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Apr 3, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Especially in language. I agree that polo shirts and khakis are overkill, a clean company shirt and blue jeans are good enough...and expected. But regardless what you look like, it's how you speak to your potential client. If you sound like a dumb redneck, you'll get hired at dumb redneck prices.



Are we talking about the same Khakis? Logo Polo shirts seem to be standard at the printers they are cheaper than regular work shirts ($12.74 each incl embroidery) there was just an initial 'artwork' charge despite me supplying them with my logo on disc. The Long sleeve polo's were more at closer to twenty but I'm not getting them again as they were too hot to work in.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Apr 3, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Arborwear pants, clean t-shirt, clean cut, beard in winter, mustache and gotee in summertime. Nice, courteous, and respectful to all customers and even those who would test the patience of a nun. Talking to customers at an appropriate level for their interest in the work they want you to do.



Aborwear now thats the kind of khakis I'm talking about. Nothing overkill about them, and they keep the sweat off too.


----------



## M.D. Vaden (Apr 3, 2009)

Doubt a suit from the Men's Wearhouse is neccessary, but appearance not only matters, but it alters the course of living.

Now ... I've lived in the USA most of my life since 1961, but was born in Canada and kept that citizenship until about 15 years ago.

When I went downtown Portland to get my US citizenship wrapped-up, I work nice slacks and shirt, and polished dress shoes. I wanted to eat lunch, and walked into a commercial restaurant supply business to ask where a place to eat was - they sent me to a fine dining French restaurant.

A week or weeks earlier, I was wearing jeans with holes in the legs, etc.. I stopped into a Goodwill store to use the restroom. The guy looked at me from head to toe and mentioned they had nothing available.

(Which I knew they did have available from earlier experience when I was dressed in clean jeans and stuff)

What a great Goodwill too, when it fiirst opened. Once word gets around, they get picked clean pretty quick. Have not been to a Goodwill since the 90s - but sure fit the need back then.

Clean affects people - nearly controlling in some cases.

At one municiple golf course, we manicured our sand traps over the course of 3 months or so, and they were nicer than any private country club in the area. We knew, because one fringe benefit was greenskeeprs golf at private clubs on Mondays and we went to them all. Our sand bunkers were the nicest in north Oregon.

The result was a gigantic reduction in footprints left unraked.

Protocol is that you rake your footprints.

There are signs already.

Before the manicuring, there were 2 to 3 sets of prints in bunkers at EACH one of the 18 holes PER DAY. After the manicuring, there were maybe 8 sets of footprints PER WEEKEND on all 18 holes combined.


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Apr 3, 2009)

Fellas got a good chuckle while back. Victim of static cling and a g-string! LOL!


----------



## fishercat (Apr 3, 2009)

*hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm*



Stihl-O-Matic said:


> which guy would you want to hire. All else even (price, cert, Insurance, Experience)
> 
> Choice #1
> 
> Choice #2



it appears choice #1 has gotten a lot more accomplished.i don't need choice # 2 to draw pictures of trees.


----------



## Tree Pig (Apr 3, 2009)

fishercat said:


> it appears choice #1 has gotten a lot more accomplished.i don't need choice # 2 to draw pictures of trees.



yeah when I posted it I was meaning if you were THE HOMEOWNER looking to have a tree removed which do you hire?


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 3, 2009)

lol well if i or anyone else on this forum was the homeowner wed prolly do it ourselves


----------



## Blakesmaster (Apr 3, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> Are we talking about the same Khakis? Logo Polo shirts seem to be standard at the printers they are cheaper than regular work shirts ($12.74 each incl embroidery) there was just an initial 'artwork' charge despite me supplying them with my logo on disc. The Long sleeve polo's were more at closer to twenty but I'm not getting them again as they were too hot to work in.



Well, I guess arborwear khakis are a different story but I still think polo's are a bit much. Unless I'm headed out dressed to the nines with my girl I don't wear collared shirts and am suprised that anyone who does physical work like us can stand them. Last time I went to the gym no one was wearing polo's. I think you should like like you can do the job. Neither the guy from pic one or pic two gave me that impression. One is a dumb redneck and the other is a pencil pusher. I try to put myself and my appearance somewhere in the middle of those two extreme's.


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 3, 2009)

yeah i would say a happy medium is in order. i am gonna try pushing my dresss code on people now. jeans steel toed boots t-shirt and a flannel. its a nice look functions well, and its what a person expects a "tree guy" to look like.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 3, 2009)

BarkBuster20 said:


> lol well if i or anyone else on this forum was the homeowner wed prolly do it ourselves



Which roofer would you be more comfortable with, the one who shows up to estimate looking like a successful contractor, or the one who looks like a guy who dies it because it is the only thing he can do? All else being equal.


----------



## arbor pro (Apr 3, 2009)

BarkBuster20 said:


> yeah i would say a happy medium is in order. i am gonna try pushing my dresss code on people now. jeans steel toed boots t-shirt and a flannel. its a nice look functions well, and its what a person expects a "tree guy" to look like.



There is no difference between a sales appointment with a potential customer and a job interview with a potential employer. In either case, you're trying to make a good impression so they'll give you a chance to prove your worth and earn an income.

A suit and tie can indeed be overkill; however, more times than not, overkill will garner you more respect than underkill when it comes to making a good first impression. 

Sorry, nothing about a baggy flannel says, "wow, he's a real tree guy" to me. Anybody can show up with a saw and baggy flannel and call themselves a tree guy. What's going to set you apart from the rest of the guys who are all vying for the same job?

Again, I'll ask the question, "who are you marketing your services to?" Is it a 30-year old guy in a t-shirt and flannel who can proabably do the job himself or a 60-year-old banker who'd prefer to spend his day in Khakis and a polo shirt out on the golf course?


----------



## ChiHD (Apr 3, 2009)

StihlRockin' said:


> I disagree. Wear Levis 550's or 560's and you'll have nice jeans that are loose and comfortable to work in. They have plenty of leg and thigh room to move around without any restrictions like tighter fitting jeans. Guess it depends on what kind/style of jeans you get. SilverTab Baggy is a loose fitting jean as well.
> 
> *StihlRockin'*



Jeans are the worst, chainsaw pants are hot but the best. wash em twice a month and good ta go!


----------



## ChiHD (Apr 3, 2009)

m.d. Vaden said:


> doubt a suit from the men's wearhouse is neccessary, but appearance not only matters, but it alters the course of living.
> 
> Now ... I've lived in the usa most of my life since 1961, but was born in canada and kept that citizenship until about 15 years ago.
> 
> ...




wtf?


----------



## Jumper (Apr 3, 2009)

Most places I worked it was chain saw pants, T shirt(usually a company one), steel toe boots and a hard hat. Hot summer days I always took along a couple of extra t shirts as I sweat hard usually ended up soaking wet. 

One more rule, no smoking or chew on the customers' property.


----------



## ChiHD (Apr 3, 2009)

Jumper said:


> Most places I worked it was chain saw pants, T shirt(usually a company one), steel toe boots and a hard hat. Hot summer days I always took along a couple of extra t shirts as I sweat hard usually ended up soaking wet.
> 
> One more rule, no smoking or chew on the customers' property.




what about droppin deuces in the back of the chip truck?


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 3, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> There is no difference between a sales appointment with a potential customer and a job interview with a potential employer. In either case, you're trying to make a good impression so they'll give you a chance to prove your worth and earn an income.
> 
> A suit and tie can indeed be overkill; however, more times than not, overkill will garner you more respect than underkill when it comes to making a good first impression.
> 
> ...



excuse me but what part of my post gave you the impression that i would wear a flannel that was baggy? you show up in a suit and tie and tell the guy your gonna remove his tree? bidding on a job is completely different than an interview, your offering your services not trying to beg for a job. for god sake man. my point is im talking about whats fit to wear, you just tried to make me sound like an idiot cause i wear 501s with steel toed boots and a flannel and tried to make yourself somehow sound smart by saying you show up to try and get jobs removing trees in a suit and tie?


----------



## tree md (Apr 3, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with clean jeans and flannel. I think as long as your wearing clean work clothes that is acceptable. It also depends on the area of the country your in. I went to bid a job for a State Representative at his ranch here in Oklahoma and wore clean jeans, clean blue jean shirt and cowboy boots. Guess what, the State Representative was wearing the exact same thing. That is considered acceptable work attire or even business casual for outside work here. What I try to do is line up all of my bids for one day during the week, do them all in one day and wear either clean khakis or clean blue jeans and a polo or some kind of collared shirt with a belt and a decent pair of shoes or boots. However, it does seem that I get a lot of jobs when I show up in the evening time with dirty clothes and saw chips in my hair though. People like for a working man to look like he works. Wish I could run around all the time in clean khakis and a polo shirt but I am a working climber as well as the owner of my service.


----------



## LTREES (Apr 3, 2009)

tree md said:


> However, it does seem that I get a lot of jobs when I show up in the evening time with dirty clothes and saw chips in my hair though. People like for a working man to look like he works. Wish I could run around all the time in clean khakis and a polo shirt but I am a working climber as well as the owner of my service.



That would be the "Hey buddy, when you get done there I'm 2 doors down. Give me a price to take down that oak tree. I would do it myself but ...."
:jawdrop:

LT...

Ps. Nothing wrong with bidding after they see ya bustin out a days work.


----------



## TimberMcPherson (Apr 3, 2009)

I just roll up in my work gear. steelcaps, chainsaw pants, fluro t shirt and whatever motorcycle gear Im wearing. Often I have sawdust stuck all over me, I have a resin stain at gut level from carrying logs out and sawdust falls out every time I get anything out of my pockets. (always have some puppy chow for my dog which is a hit with other dog owners when there dog thinks your christmas)

Its a stupid little thing but we live in a steep city, alot of stairs, I make a point to run up the stairs approaching the house (well I do it normally anyhow). I know it sounds stupid but people comment often that Im the only tradesman they have seen do that, that I must be fit. Had more than a few clients hire me because of that over PRICE after the other guys stumble up the stairs to do the quote. 

Often have clients comment either on the size of the other guys vehicle or how he looked like he didnt do any of the work (to clean, to tidily dressed, to fat, to old etc.) 
Always translates into "congrats you got the job"


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 3, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> What's going to set you apart from the rest of the guys who are all vying for the same job?


My low ball quote........lol

I have some lawn clients (yeah I know) that have million dollar homes and when i showed up to quote the lawn services guess what i was wearing, blue jeans, boots, t-shirt with my name and a ball cap with the same, I picked up several accounts paying me big $$$$$$ each month, I reckon if I'd wore my suit and tie maybe I would have gotten the whole damn community........

Oh yeah, I also have a skinned head and facial hair like Tim Silva if you know who he is.


----------



## Tree Pig (Apr 3, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Which roofer would you be more comfortable with, the one who shows up to estimate looking like a successful contractor, or the one who looks like a guy who dies it because it is the only thing he can do? All else being equal.



thanks that's the point I was trying to get too.


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 3, 2009)

I had a fence put up and had several folk come out and one of them was all nice and tidy button up shirt and all in a high dollar truck with all this fancy writing on it gave me a brochure with all this nice work they have done didn't give me a quote then, told me he'd call tomorrow (needed to figure it all up) the guy didn't even chit-chat with me so then this guy a friend recommended showed up in an old truck that looked very good but it was just old (old ford f150) and he got out in his bib overalls and his white t-shirt with a beard about half way down his chest and a pony tale (all grey) and I talked to him for a few minutes showing him what I wanted and we just talked for a few minutes about other things then the guy told me price for the fence, I mentioned the clean cut guy and he told me "well, when you do good work like we and been it as long as I have you don't need them fancy things" to which I replied "when ever you get ready just come on and put up my fence" Why did I chose they guy you might ask, well he treated me like a person and not just someone that wants to spend money on a fence like the rest and the fence looks damn good too.............

moral of the story, I think personality has a lot to do with it also.


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 3, 2009)

corsair4360 said:


> My two cents... When you are driving in a company truck with the company name on it, or any interaction with a customer where you can be associated with the company appearance counts. Example: If you are driving down the road in a beat up filthy truck with stuff just piled in it haphazardly and the name of the company on it, people notice, and the impression is not positive. I for one don't do business with companies that appear to not care unless somehow they overcome that bad initial impression. Same is true if you cut me off or behave in a way I consider improper on the highway. Some may not like that but I still have some choice how and where I spend my money (for now)..


you're not the only one with green money.


----------



## fishercat (Apr 3, 2009)

*i prefer the guy with dirt under his nails.*



John Paul Sanborn said:


> Which roofer would you be more comfortable with, the one who shows up to estimate looking like a successful contractor, or the one who looks like a guy who dies it because it is the only thing he can do? All else being equal.



a guy that gets stuff done and isn't afraid of work.i like to see the boss on the job site. 

if you send a pencil pusher to do an estimate and/or close the deal,communication is lost after that.that is when the he said/she said garbage starts.if the guy that originally met with the customer is one the job,usually the stuff discussed in the original conversation gets completed.


----------



## BarkBuster20 (Apr 4, 2009)

im still gonna say that jeans and a flannel are pretty decent work attire.


----------



## TheLumberJack (Apr 4, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> Oh yeah, I also have a skinned head and facial hair like Tim Silva if you know who he is.



You mean this guy???

(picture of me and Tim Sylvia attached)


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 4, 2009)

TheLumberJack said:


> You mean this guy???
> 
> (picture of me and Tim Sylvia attached)


yeah, mines a little thicker though.


----------



## ChiHD (Apr 5, 2009)

TheLumberJack said:


> You mean this guy???
> 
> (picture of me and Tim Sylvia attached)




O no he ditint


----------



## AOD (Apr 5, 2009)

There should be nothing wrong with work jeans and a T shirt on a tree job site, Polo shirts and khakis are a bit excessive, tree guys are doing hard, dirty work and getting pretty filthy in the process. I agree about using tobacco and excessively filthy language on customers property. 

People (customers) who don't like long hair and tats need to get over it, it's not 1955 anymore.


----------



## familytreeman (Apr 5, 2009)

*Does appearances matter???*

Do appearances matter... would be the way to phrase that. 

Just listening to the way the thread question sounds, I imagine it in the voice of thick hillbilly accent, _does appearances matter?_, and imagining the confused look on the face of said hillbilly, I wonder how many people realize your grammar is a huge part of your appearance!

Does grammar matter in this industry? 

I guess not amongst those toothless bubba's out there doing 'tree cuttin' 'tree toppin' 'stump grindin' etc...


----------



## gr8scott72 (Apr 5, 2009)

familytreeman said:


> Do appearances matter... would be the way to phrase that.
> 
> Just listening to the way the thread question sounds, I imagine it in the voice of thick hillbilly accent, _does appearances matter?_, and imagining the confused look on the face of said hillbilly, I wonder how many people realize your grammar is a huge part of your appearance!
> 
> ...



Or "Does appearance matter."


----------



## AOD (Apr 5, 2009)

There is a balance between looking like some slack jawed yokel who looks like they just came down from the hills in a beat up truck and hasn't had a shower in 4 years and looking like an office executive who has never gotten dirty a day in his life. There should be nothing wrong with jeans and a T shirt on any tree job. Tucked in shirts don't work in the real world, every one will be untucked within an hour. I'd let guys work shirtless if it was really, really hot out.


----------



## Raymond (Apr 5, 2009)

I wish I could wear flannel shirts. I gave them up years ago because I would get them hung up and pop buttons all the time. Now days it's a clean good quality sweat shirts and blue jeans. I say good quality because an oversize cheap sweat shirt looks bad. 

Be easy on me but In the warm months I wear clean jean shorts and a clean tee shirt. Yep even on bids.

My name and logo for shirts are coming this summer. 
I've been wanting a simple but clear cartoon type leprecon (I'm Irish) in climbing gear with a chainsaw for a small (4 inches or so) logo for the front. If we have a good artist in the group, I would be more than happy to pay for such a picture that I could use. PM me if you are so we can talk about it more.


----------



## AOD (Apr 5, 2009)

As long as you look better than Nosak you should be fine.


----------



## Rftreeman (Apr 5, 2009)

AOD said:


> As long as you look better than Nosak you should be fine.


yeah, I can't stand seeing under arm hair, not on my watch, the sleeves stay on ......


----------



## ChiHD (Apr 5, 2009)

BarkBuster20 said:


> im a ********** because i wear flannels and jeans? are you a little 12 year old boy? cause if your an adult i wanna know where you live.




I take back saying that you were a **********. I respect your opinion that jeans are the best work pants, and also respectfully disagree. 

A question for you, do you use a chainsaw daily? If so do you wear chaps over your jeans or not wear any at all?

I find jeans extremely uncomfortable, hard to climb in, and unprofessional. I use a chainsaw daily and think that chaps are inconvenient, and my stretch airs with chainsaw protection are the most comfortable climbing pants I've ever worn. There are plenty of other good choices as well.

basically...anything > jeans


----------



## AOD (Apr 5, 2009)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> basically...anything > jeans



Dude, that's just plain weird. Like drinking tomato juice all the time weird.


----------



## Raymond (Apr 5, 2009)

AOD said:


> Dude, that's just plain weird. Like drinking tomato juice all the time weird.


----------



## Tim "Bo" Snell (Apr 5, 2009)

StihlRockin' said:


> What are your opinions and *experiences* about keeping up appearances to present a more professional image? Do you think having the traditional clean look is important in our profession?
> 
> What sort of experiences have you had in either scenario that might shed light on the situation?
> 
> *StihlRockin'*



We all make judgements every day based on others' appearance. In other words, for most people making judgements about a business of ANY kind, there is a strong correlation between the way a person/business LOOKS and the way that person/business WORKS professionally. Whether I think this is fair or not is beside the point. So, if I want to attract a certain clientele--especially the kind that place a premium on professionalism--then I am going to do everything I can to try & attract that kind of client as long as it is ethical. This means not only wearing professional looking clothes (with an emphasis upon safety [for example, everyone on the crew wears bright fluorescent yellow shirts with the Class II reflective stripes]), but avoids vulgar language in front of clients, uses polite speech ("Please," "Thank you," "No ma'am/sir," "Yes ma'am/sir," etc.). I think, basically, that clients make judments about a company based on the "whole package." Thus, it's also important to have relatively clean equipment that runs well & is well-maintained, that we exhibit extreme care & pride in our on-site work, and that we clean up after ourselves (for example, all cigarette butts, soda cans, etc., go in our company trash bags). 

The sooner you can make a good impression with a potential client through your decent appearance & decent language & decent manners, the more likely you'll be to get the opportunity to land that signed contract. 

Making a good impression is not rocket science. . . . 

Just a few rambling thoughts. . . .


----------



## tree md (Apr 5, 2009)

The cigarette butts are a big pet peeve with me. As well as garbage and language. I used to smoke but would always strip my butts and throw them in the truck or put them in my pocket until I could dispose of them. I expected the same from my help and would constantly have to remind them and pick up behind them. Same with water bottles/lunch debris. I can't stand for someone to leave hamburger wrappers and drink cups around the job site. Throw it on the truck. I had a guy who would always finish a can of snuff and just chuck it on the ground. I dip myself (although not right in the client's face) and wouldn't dream of just throwing an empty snuff can or any other garbage on the ground. I told this guy for nearly a year not to do that. Now he no longer works for me. I don't like for my crew to leave trash around or talk trashy. It's not like we are bucking logs in the woods or working on a construction site away from the public. We are right in the public eye and that can be a challenge with your crew at times.


----------



## Raymond (Apr 5, 2009)

tree md said:


> The cigarette butts are a big pet peeve with me. As well as garbage and language. I used to smoke but would always strip my butts and throw them in the truck or put them in my pocket until I could dispose of them. I expected the same from my help and would constantly have to remind them and pick up behind them. Same with water bottles/lunch debris. I can't stand for someone to leave hamburger wrappers and drink cups around the job site. Throw it on the truck. I had a guy who would always finish a can of snuff and just chuck it on the ground. I dip myself (although not right in the client's face) and wouldn't dream of just throwing an empty snuff can or any other garbage on the ground. I told this guy for nearly a year not to do that. Now he no longer works for me. I don't like for my crew to leave trash around or talk trashy. It's not like we are bucking logs in the woods or working on a construction site away from the public. We are right in the public eye and that can be a challenge with your crew at times.


I have my crew finally doing this but am having a hell of a time getting the WHOLE truck cleaned out at the end of the day. 

I explain to them when we unload the gear, we're not done till we get ALL the trash out of the cab and bed. I don't eat lunch, so I'll be damned if I'm gonna run around gathering burrito wrappers and chip bags when my guys leave.


----------



## capetrees (Apr 5, 2009)

Of course appearance matters. And that means all appearances, your clothes, your vehicles, your cleanliness, your grammar and your workers. 

I've seen so many guys in beaters, the kinds that are just barely road legal, show up to a job to give a quote and the owners relay back to me they just don't have faith in the guy. 

Grammar and language is very important. Swearing is right out. So many people in general drop the F bomb like its just normal everyday language. IT'S NOT AND IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU SOUND HIP OR COOL! 

Clean clothes, regardless of what your wearing is a big plus. Midday going to a quick quote, the owners have to give some leaway on the cleanliness if you've been cutting all day but otherwise, clean is the rule. Hygeine is an important one too. And the crew nees to know that also. Nothing worse than a guy on the crew tht smells. 

Myself? D ickies yearround unless it's really cold and the Carhardt coveralls come out, hooded sweatshirt or tee shirts in the summer without the "in your face slogans"(political or otherwise), boots (not sneakers) and a neat haircut. I don't care about facial hair, hair lenth, ink, earrings or even color of clothes. Clean, proffessional and courteous.


----------



## clearance (Apr 5, 2009)

I show up to work wearing Viberg lineman boots, falling pants with a belt instead of suspenders, and a t-shirt, if its cold a Stanfield shirt as well. People know I am there to work, and they are sure by looking at me that I can work. I usually don't wear offensive t-shirts, but after working hard for a few hours, I am dirty. So be it. I don't get changed to go and look at other jobs, when i show up people usually comment something like "Sure looks like you have been working" or words to that effect.

I am making an effort to clean up my langauge at work, after working in the bush and construction since I was a kid, it has its challenges. When I see someone show up at the jobsite, I look at what is on thier feet. You can tell a lot right there. Regardless of what one wears, its what they have got done at the end of the day that means the most.


----------



## AOD (Apr 5, 2009)

I am probably the worst offender of language that I know. I can gross out the most hardened of iron workers and roughnecks. Literally nothing is off limits to me, but I do watch it at work and around the public, mostly to protect my image and the company I represent. 

Nothing is hotter than a chick who can swear like a sailor........


----------



## StihlRockin' (Apr 6, 2009)

I like *Tim "Bo" Snell*'s reply back on reply #89.

It reflects many of my own thoughts, but more importantly, saves me some typing. LOL!

Oh, and capetrees' #92 reply saves me more typing!

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## Jumper (Apr 6, 2009)

clearance said:


> I am making an effort to clean up my langauge at work, after working in the bush and construction since I was a kid, it has its challenges. When I see someone show up at the jobsite, I look at what is on thier feet. You can tell a lot right there.



I sympathize on the language thing having worked around soldiers for many years .......airborne ones at that.

So flip flops don't cut it where you work LOL?


----------



## ChiHD (Apr 6, 2009)

AOD said:


> Dude, that's just plain weird. Like drinking tomato juice all the time weird.




sorry don't get it.


----------



## prentice110 (Apr 6, 2009)

Ive been reading this thread for a while now and admit I was hesitant to reply at first, but it wont go away so heres my two cents... Some people will call you looking for that rough and tumble tree guy with the beard and flannel. This doesnt mean go without shaving or trimming that chit for a year it just means some people expect it. Now if your talkin bout richy rich territory, either your there by referral, or they saw you workin an like what they saw. Or, there the cheap-o price shopper in da ritzy hood that just wants the nieghbor to see that they spent $ on there trees too. It takes all types. IMO, unless your the sales rep for the ol' big green n yello, or dem dirty liars at the "care of", show up looking like a tree guy. Dont be filthy in the morning. If you are your probably a slob. If you run a crew all day, and its after 5pm, its ok to have some sawdust in your hair and grease on the pants. For crissake, you just busted arse all day and if they dont respect that, do you really want there biz? Theres alot more I could say about this, but Ill let you guys nibble on this 4 a while, and then let you know what I think about the "super clean cuts".


----------



## fishercat (Apr 7, 2009)

*i smoke as well.*



tree md said:


> The cigarette butts are a big pet peeve with me. As well as garbage and language. I used to smoke but would always strip my butts and throw them in the truck or put them in my pocket until I could dispose of them. I expected the same from my help and would constantly have to remind them and pick up behind them. Same with water bottles/lunch debris. I can't stand for someone to leave hamburger wrappers and drink cups around the job site. Throw it on the truck. I had a guy who would always finish a can of snuff and just chuck it on the ground. I dip myself (although not right in the client's face) and wouldn't dream of just throwing an empty snuff can or any other garbage on the ground. I told this guy for nearly a year not to do that. Now he no longer works for me. I don't like for my crew to leave trash around or talk trashy. It's not like we are bucking logs in the woods or working on a construction site away from the public. We are right in the public eye and that can be a challenge with your crew at times.



i put my butts in my pocket.i get irate when i see someone throw them on the ground.


----------



## arbor pro (Apr 8, 2009)

fishercat said:


> i put my butts in my pocket.i get irate when i see someone throw them on the ground.



My butt is usually inside my pockets as well.


----------



## fishercat (Apr 9, 2009)

*must be nice.*



arbor pro said:


> My butt is usually inside my pockets as well.



seems like you would save a lot of time if it was just in your pants.


----------



## userdude (Apr 9, 2009)

We are required to wear company logo Tshirt, Arborwear Techs, with proper footwear. Smokers put butts in pocket and no filthy mouths on the job. We receive compliments almost daily on our appearance. 
To answer the question: Appearance does matter.


----------

