# 4400-4 problem



## B-Edwards (Jan 25, 2007)

I have a Carlton 4400-4 ,today we were grinding on a steep hillside. I was grinding with the grinding wheel downhill using the angle to help not have a roll over. I screwed up and moved into the ground out hole , so i went on down and tried to climb the machine back up. It wouldn't climb or spin the wheels with the steering end pointed up-hill. I turned it around with the grinding wheel pointed up-hill and it would either move or spin the wheels. Has anyone else had this problem before or suggestions on what might be the problem. It almost seems to me like a valve isn't opening like it should. I spoke to a salesman at Carlton and he said that all 4400-4's have this problem. I also have a 3500-4 and it will spin the wheels in either direction or go where i want it to. I do have to say I love Carlton.


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## BigBeav (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the problem correctly, but I figure you're not getting any traction. I had an instance where I was climbing a steep hill that was basically fill, so the wheels were just digging in and tearing away at the hill, not going anywhere. I just put some boards down along the path, and as it climbed I kept the cutter wheel close to the ground. Hope that helps.


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## B-Edwards (Jan 25, 2007)

No that wasnt the problem, The wheels wouldnt turn when the steering end was up-hill or atleast they wouldnt spin and move. If it was turned around with cutter wheel up-hill it would spin . I am not talking about traction or lack of, I am talking about the power to move or spin.


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## Xtra (Jan 25, 2007)

My 4400 has the same problem. It seems the weight of the machine is greater then the torque of the drive motor. I also sometimes have trouble going up my trailer ramps.

A lot of people (including me) who own 4400's have installed a winch on the grinder so you can pull it out of deep holes.


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## Mowingman (Jan 25, 2007)

How steep is the hill. Perhaps the hydraulic tank will not allow oil to feed properly to the hydraulic pump if facing the wrong way on a hill. The feed hose might be out of the oil in the tank when it becomes unlevel???
Jeff


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## B-Edwards (Jan 26, 2007)

Thank you Xtra thats what i wanted to hear , well sorta now i know its not just a problem I have. I am surprised it does this however as it will spin very easy in the other direction. Although that is exactly what it seems like ( not enough torque to move it). As I mentioned earlier my 3500-4 will spin in either direction or move. Also it is not starving for oil but I see what you are saying and thank you. Thanks to everyone.


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## Xtra (Jan 26, 2007)

For some reason if I open the bypass/freewheel valve, move the travel lever, and then close the bypass valve, I'll sometime get additional torque. Also the hotter it gets the less torque I have while traveling.

I have a surplus catalog (www.surpluscenter.com) that sells hydro motors, I've been thinking of swapping out the original drive motor. The hydro pump on the engine seems to produce enough pressure but I think the drive motors are just too under powered.


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## B-Edwards (Jan 27, 2007)

Like I said in the start of this thread a dealer at Carlton told me this is a problem with the 4400-4's Might wanna call them and see how they corrected the problem with the newer models. If the fix is that easy I bet alot of people will want to fix theirs also. I will call next week if I get the chance.


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## Mowingman (Jan 27, 2007)

It seems to me, that if Carlton knew they had a problem like this, they would provide an upgrade and cover it under warranty. Glad I decided not to go with a Carlton. Will look at them again when they get it right, and, when they have a local dealer to help when problems arise.


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## Bigstumps (Jan 27, 2007)

I would put a pressure gauge in it and see what kind of hydraulic pressure you are getting in each direction. I've found on all my equipment actually going and putting a meter or gauge or whatever the right tool needed in the system will tell you a lot real quick. Guessing causes a lot of lost time and $$$$.


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## Bigstumps (Jan 27, 2007)

Mowingman said:


> It seems to me, that if Carlton knew they had a problem like this, they would provide an upgrade and cover it under warranty. Glad I decided not to go with a Carlton. Will look at them again when they get it right, and, when they have a local dealer to help when problems arise.



What did you get??


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## howel07264 (Jan 30, 2007)

B-Edwards said:


> I have a Carlton 4400-4 ,today we were grinding on a steep hillside. I was grinding with the grinding wheel downhill using the angle to help not have a roll over. I screwed up and moved into the ground out hole , so i went on down and tried to climb the machine back up. It wouldn't climb or spin the wheels with the steering end pointed up-hill. I turned it around with the grinding wheel pointed up-hill and it would either move or spin the wheels. Has anyone else had this problem before or suggestions on what might be the problem. It almost seems to me like a valve isn't opening like it should. I spoke to a salesman at Carlton and he said that all 4400-4's have this problem. I also have a 3500-4 and it will spin the wheels in either direction or go where i want it to. I do have to say I love Carlton.


 I had the same problem with my 4400-4. I replaced the hyd.pump with one about 25% more volume. went from like 4.2gpm to 5.7gpm . Made a tremendous difference. Also machine moves much quicker. A new pump is only around $150. Try it,cheap fix.


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## B-Edwards (Jan 31, 2007)

. Where did you buy your new hydro pump? Thanks


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## elmnut (Jan 31, 2007)

We had a 4400-d that had problems like yours, changing the hydraulic filter more often seemed to help. Recently bought the 7015 sp and have not had any problems so far. Good luck!


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## howel07264 (Feb 1, 2007)

*New pump*



B-Edwards said:


> . Where did you buy your new hydro pump? Thanks


Installed a Prince sp20b11a9h9-r....677 cu.in displ., 5.63gpm @2000 rpm .Bought from Motion Ind.. Also check out Surpluscenter.com. item#9-1897-a. $139.95. All the hyd. functions increased in speed and torque. good luck!


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## Xtra (Feb 1, 2007)

Replacing the pump motor solved the problem?
(no need to swap in a new drive motor?)

Was that a direct swap or did you have to fabricate anything?


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## howel07264 (Feb 1, 2007)

*New pump*



Xtra said:


> Replacing the pump motor solved the problem?
> (no need to swap in a new drive motor?)
> 
> Was that a direct swap or did you have to fabricate anything?


 Well i don't know if it would solve everyones problem but it did mine. No fab, its the same pump as stock but higher gpm. Strangely enough i didn't have the foaming problem in hot weather that i had with the old lower gpm. pump.


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## B-Edwards (Apr 17, 2007)

I ordered a new pump ,havent installed it yet but have recieved it. It looks like the shaft is shorter on the newer pump ,I used the numbers you listed for part #. I want to know if you had trouble at all installing newer pump and if the shafts seemed the same to you also howd you get the cog off the pump shaft,? wheel puller ? Thanks


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## howel07264 (Apr 25, 2007)

B-Edwards said:


> I ordered a new pump ,havent installed it yet but have recieved it. It looks like the shaft is shorter on the newer pump ,I used the numbers you listed for part #. I want to know if you had trouble at all installing newer pump and if the shafts seemed the same to you also howd you get the cog off the pump shaft,? wheel puller ? Thanks


B-Edwards, Did you get your pump put on yet?Did you get the e-mail regarding installation?


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## B-Edwards (Apr 26, 2007)

No I havent yet ,been way too busy doing storm clean-up and customers are back for the season I am swamped. Thank you sir for info.


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## Torquin (Jun 4, 2010)

B-Edwards,
I know this is a really old thread to dredge up, but I have a 4400 also, and am wondering about your pump swap. How did it go? How has the machine performed since?
I'm not experiencing any problems at this time, except the desire for chains or tracks sometimes, but this is good information to hold on to.

Thanks,
Chris


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