# will this work?... skirting the liability factor



## treeminator (Mar 22, 2006)

what if i hire someone and make him get a county license. can i then hire him as a sub and not have to worry about him getting hurt? or would i have to go further than this by making him Incoporate himself and sign "equiptment rental" contracts to cover myself.

workman's comp is 28% here.


----------



## Nickrosis (Mar 23, 2006)

I hear that. How about we re-try what you're saying.

-Don't hire the guy!
-Ask him or find someone who will operate under their own identity, either as an incorporation or most likely as a sole proprietor. Few people would want to go the incorporation route when they're by themselves.
-Require that this person get liability insurance and give you documentation of it and frequently check to be sure they are maintaining it.
-Require that they get their own health insurance and, ideally, long- and short-term disability.
-THEN, contract with them for work, being very careful to follow this document.

Ways you could screw this up: You could end up treating them like an employee by having them report to you every day and use all your equipment. One day, the IRS could say - hey, you're treating this guy like an employee and you owe us employment taxes for him.

You could be held liable if he hurts himself or you hurt him somehow out on the job. It could get really ugly if his insurance had lapsed, and whoa, now you're fully responsible.

Important bottom line: Get an attorney to help you through this. The money spent now will help you get this straightened out. Otherwise, suck it up with the workcomp. We are. At 22%.


----------



## treeminator (Mar 23, 2006)

i spoke to my insurance agent (who used to work for an accountant). she said to have him incorporate, file for an exemption(?), and get a county license.

at that point, he could lose body parts and there's nothing he can do to come after me because he filed for an exemption as a sub-contractor.

but that's only one person's opinion.


----------



## TreeLady (Mar 23, 2006)

:jawdrop: Workers comp is 48% in Ohio for anyone using chainsaws, chippers or stumpgrinders. We paid that for a year  , then got in a group and it went down to 2%. I have no idea about FL, but you might want to see if they have group, or experience rating. You can also get discounts here for Drug Free Workplace participation.


----------



## TreeLady (Mar 23, 2006)

> i spoke to my insurance agent (who used to work for an accountant). she said to have him incorporate, file for an exemption(?), and get a county license.
> 
> at that point, he could lose body parts and there's nothing he can do to come after me because he filed for an exemption as a sub-contractor.
> 
> but that's only one person's opinion.



She's probably right, but I would want to hear that from an attorney before I moved forward.


----------



## begleytree (Mar 23, 2006)

Treeladys right, but when I started, I was at 51%. groups make it affordable to be in buisness.

There are definitions about who's an employee, and who's a sub. You can call him what you want to, but if he gets hurt, the state will call it for you. I'd urge checking into it very carefully.
-Ralph


----------



## Nickrosis (Mar 23, 2006)

treeminator said:


> file for an exemption(?), and get a county license.


Filing for an exemption: As a business owner, you can opt to not be covered by workers compensation. Doing so requires filing for an exemption, hence the phrase. He should definitely get health insurance, though, because if he gets hurt after exempting himself, workers compensation is not an option.


----------



## arbor dad (Mar 27, 2006)

*worry about the bigger picture*

If all your worried about is skirting liability then your not looking at the big picture. What about your reputation, your responsibility to your clients and your conscience if this sub gets badly hurt or killed. Having subs is not like having employees under your control and training. They are less likely to care for your customers property and your equipment like a well trained employee would. be carefull my friend a decision to skirt now might be something you pay for later.


----------



## Newfie (Mar 27, 2006)

How about just doing business under an alias. Then you pack up and skip out when it hits the fan. It'll be hard for people to track you down. Use disposable cell phones and you can be super stealthy. Plus you won't have to be tied into any kind of long term phone contract. Does your double wide still have its wheels?:bang:


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 27, 2006)

begleytree said:


> There are definitions about who's an employee, and who's a sub. You can call him what you want to, but if he gets hurt, the state will call it for you. I'd urge checking into it very carefully.
> -Ralph



Very good advice. A lot of people have tried to make employees look like subcontractors, and have paid a heavy price for it.

Bureaucrats may be stupid, but they get paid to know the usual dodges, and there's nothing new or creative in an employer trying to pretend that an employee is a sub.


----------

