# Which ported 50cc saw



## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

If you were going to get a 50cc saw old or new ported which one would you choose?


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## PLAYINWOOD (Jan 9, 2013)

346ne....


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

346 NE or OE.


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## J_Arena (Jan 9, 2013)

* Stihl 028 AV SUPER*


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> 346 NE or OE.



Not an 026 PRO or 550xp or MS261?


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 9, 2013)

Stumpbroke 2153 !


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Stumpbroke 2153 !


Sorry,I forgot about the red one


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

J_Arena said:


> * Stihl 028 AV SUPER*



Very solidly built saw and saw troll will let you know why not:smile2:


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## nmurph (Jan 9, 2013)

346ne


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## tallguys (Jan 9, 2013)

5105


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## Tzed250 (Jan 9, 2013)

I chose the 550XP!


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

I have a monkeyed 026 PRO that runs quite well with tons of torque but also have another different brand 50cc saw on route to me now that will be ported.Just want to see if I made the right choice.


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## chadihman (Jan 9, 2013)

I'll say what you want to hear. STIHL MS 261 runs good as is or port it.


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## 04ultra (Jan 9, 2013)

Poulan wildthingy will trump all saws on the market...:msp_wink:n


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Not an 026 PRO or 550xp or MS261?



026 needs to be ported pretty hot to compete, and even then? 

The 261 will make good power, but still not quite a 346 unless you use a different carb. The 261 also takes more work to port. On top of all that the 261 still a heavier saw. The 550 would be my second choice, as it's lighter than the 261 and the AT system seems to work well. With that said it still won't have the power of a 346, at least I haven't ran one (yet) that does. 

Now a lot of guys including myself are using the 357/359 carb and intake setup in ported 346's, but it's not a necessity to make a really good running saw. My personal 346 has a MM set squish and a non limited coil, no porting whatsoever, and she has out cut more than one ported 346. With a few little things here and there, the 346's can be made to really run.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 9, 2013)

Another vote for a 346


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## mr.finn (Jan 9, 2013)

Ok this may seem like a silly question but what is NE?


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 9, 2013)

NE=new edition which is 50cc the old edition was 45cc.


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Andre pretty much nailed it. If you want max power, go with a 346 or 2153. There are only a few 2153s left out there if you're considering that route. My second choice, ported, would be the 261. It'll be right on the heals of the 346. If going with a 550, I would not port it. IMHO, it's not worth the investment. MM it and be done with it.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

mr.finn said:


> Ok this may seem like a silly question but what is NE?



New edition. The original 346 had 46cc the NE has 50cc.


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## Man of $tihl (Jan 9, 2013)

Partner 5000+ or Jonsered 490.


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Andre pretty much nailed it. If you want max power, go with a 346 or 2153. There are only a few 2153s left out there if you're considering that route. My second choice, ported, would be the 261. It'll be right on the heals of the 346. If going with a 550, I would not port it. IMHO, it's not worth the investment. MM it and be done with it.



Agreed... If ya want the 261 to run with "not beat" the 346, it'll have to have it's strato configuration changed...
If I had to buy a new Stihl today, it would be a 261... They really are little fat bottomed beasts.
Thank goodness I don't have to do that...

The 550 is excellent with a simple muffler mod... No one has come up with a real kick ass recipe for porting this one yet... 
At least that I know of...
Brad is lazy, and needs to get to work...:msp_wink:


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

tallguys said:


> 5105



A good saw but the 5100 I had was blowing 200psi cold and did not impress me.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 9, 2013)

2153 while you can still get them.


Brad, back to your post regarding the 550...... are you saying that porting the 550 is not necessary to run with the other 50cc saws? or are you saying that the gain potential isnt there as the saw is pretty hot out of the box? Just curious what your thoughts are on the model? Thanks.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

Here is a 46cc 346 I ported for Mike. This was the saws first run after porting. The chunk of wood was very dry and hard, it honestly doesn't do the saw Justis. This particular saw has out ran more than one ported NE 346, she placed 6th last spring in the 346 build off. The NE I built for Mike finished 1st in the spring gtg and 1st in the fall gtg.:msp_biggrin: 

1 mike ne 7.24
2 terry ne 7.46
3 randy ne 8.01
4 eric ne 8.05
5 jd ne 8.54
6 brad 8.86
7 mike oe 9.05
8 jeremy ne 9.17
9 wendel ne 9.38
10 jason oe 9.49
11 stumpy 350 9.51
12 jack ne 9.56 

<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U2S0I9cwS4s?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U2S0I9cwS4s?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I chose the 550XP!



The 550xp may be headed my way but I like to adjust things myself and is it a stronger saw ported than the others.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> 2153 while you can still get them.
> 
> 
> Brad, back to your post regarding the 550...... are you saying that porting the 550 is not necessary to run with the other 50cc saws? or are you saying that the gain potential isnt there as the saw is pretty hot out of the box? Just curious what your thoughts are on the model? Thanks.



From what I've seen a simple MM will have a 550 running almost as strong as a mildly ported 346, they run quite strong out of the box. So far I haven't seen a ported 550 that will run with a 346, that can and will likely change.


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Here is a 46cc 346 I ported for Mike. This was the saws first run after porting. The chunk of wood was very dry and hard, it honestly doesn't do the saw Justis. This particular saw has out ran more than one ported NE 346, she placed 6th last spring in the 346 build off. The NE I built for Mike finished 1st in the spring gtg and 1st in the fall gtg.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> 1 mike ne 7.24
> 2 terry ne 7.46
> ...



Who built the other saws?


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## Majorpayne (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Here is a 46cc 346 I ported for Mike. This was the saws first run after porting. The chunk of wood was very dry and hard, it honestly doesn't do the saw Justis. This particular saw has out ran more than one ported NE 346, she placed 6th last spring in the 346 build off. The NE I built for Mike finished 1st in the spring gtg and 1st in the fall gtg.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> 1 mike ne 7.24
> 2 terry ne 7.46
> ...



Why are you wearing Randy's legs in that video?


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> 2153 while you can still get them.
> 
> 
> Brad, back to your post regarding the 550...... are you saying that porting the 550 is not necessary to run with the other 50cc saws? or are you saying that the gain potential isnt there as the saw is pretty hot out of the box? Just curious what your thoughts are on the model? Thanks.



The 550 is the absolute strongest 50cc saw if only MMd. IMHO, most of the gains to be had are in the MM. Other's opinions will vary. With what I've seen, I won't take your money to port a 550. They really are just that strong right out of the box with only a simply MM. With that said, I never ran my ported 550 against any other ported 550s. Reguardless, I've yet to see a 550 that will run as fast as a 346. If you're looking for the strongest new 50cc saw, then the choice is clear. Get either a 346 or 2153.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 9, 2013)

I love how the 550 feels in the hands, but I'm not ready for them just yet. Staying old school as long as I can.

Just bought another 2011 346 to set back. :msp_wink:


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 9, 2013)

Man of $tihl said:


> Partner 5000+ or Jonsered 490.



I reallllllly liked those too.  :msp_wink::msp_biggrin:


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Here is a 46cc 346 I ported for Mike. This was the saws first run after porting. The chunk of wood was very dry and hard, it honestly doesn't do the saw Justis. This particular saw has out ran more than one ported NE 346, she placed 6th last spring in the 346 build off. The NE I built for Mike finished 1st in the spring gtg and 1st in the fall gtg.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> 1 mike ne 7.24
> 2 terry ne 7.46
> ...



Too bad we can't count the times that Nate ran with our saws It was simply amazing to watch him take nearly any saw there, and shave a significant amount of time off the cuts!


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Too bad we can't count the times that Nate ran with our saws It was simply amazing to watch him take nearly any saw there, and shave a significant amount of time off the cuts!



Nate's = solo is one of those guys operating a saw that is in tune with it. He can tell how much pressure to keep on it and listening to the r's of the motor in the cut. Top notch


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## GBD (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> If you were going to get a 50cc saw old or new ported which one would you choose?



I just got back an 031AVEQ I gave away some 15 years ago. After some thought, I decided I will make a 346 killer out of it. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Here's what I recommend for the best running and strongest 50cc saw currently on the market.


346XP or 2153
Increased compression
"Mild numbered" porting, very easy to over port
Complete 357/359 intake tract
Walbro 199 carb with the "Tree Monkey" fix
Unlimited coil
Dual ported muffler


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Too bad we can't count the times that Nate ran with our saws It was simply amazing to watch him take nearly any saw there, and shave a significant amount of time off the cuts!



Yup... Want me to show everyone Wendell's cuts???


[video=youtube;FzcjZw6pC1E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzcjZw6pC1E&list=UUfB03KVhJRBISPufMa8F7GA&index=46[/video]


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Nate's = solo is one of those guys operating a saw that is in tune with it. He can tell how much pressure to keep on it and listening to the r's of the motor in the cut. Top notch



The thing of it is, he can do it EVERY time with ANY saw!


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Yup... Want me to show everyone Wendell's cuts???



Oh please, that was horribly embarrassing!!! I'm talking about the vid of me, not Wendell. Now Wendell, that was hillarious


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

I think this was the winner??? 

[video=youtube;fb3RV1Xs-G0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb3RV1Xs-G0&list=UUfB03KVhJRBISPufMa8F7GA[/video]


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Oh please, that was horribly embarrassing!!! I'm talking about the vid of me, not Wendell. Now Wendell, that was hillarious



OK... For your viewing pleasure... 

[video=youtube;TzqMmF7Af-8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzqMmF7Af-8&list=UUfB03KVhJRBISPufMa8F7GA[/video]
:msp_wink:


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## SawTroll (Jan 9, 2013)

Since the results of porting the 550xp isn't quite there yet, there really are only one candidate left at this point, the 346xp.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Too bad we can't count the times that Nate ran with our saws It was simply amazing to watch him take nearly any saw there, and shave a significant amount of time off the cuts!



Maybe so, but one could argue, the more cuts you make the faster you cut, so it doesn't really matter IMHO. Nevertheless I believe my 346 out cut yours again in the fall and I wasn't even there to run the saw, so:msp_tongue:


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Maybe so, but one could argue, the more cuts you make the faster you cut, so it doesn't really matter IMHO. Nevertheless I believe my 346 out cut yours again in the fall and I wasn't even there to run the saw, so:msp_tongue:



I think everybody's 346 NE and OE beat up on his 346 at the Ohio spring gtg. :msp_wink::jester::msp_biggrin:

I think he even tried 4-6 different runs and got slower each time. :msp_wink::jester::msp_biggrin:


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Maybe so, but one could argue, the more cuts you make the faster you cut, so it doesn't really matter IMHO. Nevertheless I believe my 346 out cut yours again in the fall and I wasn't even there to run the saw, so:msp_tongue:



It's a great running saw...
Of course I think HeavyFuel may have a 5105 that could take it...
Just sayin...
And stuff...
:msp_rolleyes:


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## WetGunPowder (Jan 9, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> OK... For your viewing pleasure...
> 
> [video=youtube;TzqMmF7Af-8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzqMmF7Af-8&list=UUfB03KVhJRBISPufMa8F7GA[/video]
> :msp_wink:



Matt-You really shouldn't do this to a guy who can't be here to defend himself!:msp_w00t:


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## SawTroll (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Here is a 46cc 346 I ported for Mike. ....



45cc, not 46.


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> 45cc, not 46.



I been looking for a vid of you running your 346 Nikko, and can't find one anywhere... You need to send me one...

So we can have "The Other Santa" on film running the 346...


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I recommend for the best running and strongest 50cc saw currently on the market.
> 
> 
> 346XP or 2153
> ...


I agree with less is more for porting.


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

WetGunPowder said:


> Matt-You really shouldn't do this to a guy who can't be here to defend himself!:msp_w00t:



Shoot Boyd!!! Poor W may have had the fastest 346 there and we'd never know it!!! He shoulda let Nate run it...


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Maybe so, but one could argue, the more cuts you make the faster you cut, so it doesn't really matter IMHO. Nevertheless I believe my 346 out cut yours again in the fall and I wasn't even there to run the saw, so:msp_tongue:



You can ask Nate. My 346 cut the fastest time of the day, unofficiallyotstir:

Maybe someone can share the 5ci and 6ci results at the fall GTG


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> You can ask Nate. My 346 cut the fastest time of the day, unofficiallyotstir:
> 
> Maybe someone can share the 5ci and 6ci results



I didn't make the fall one...:censored:
Don't count anyway, cause Mr. Fluffy, and JD's 7900 weren't there... Or did Scott bring them?
How did the 4 cube shake out..???
:hell_boy:

I did hear the Joat saw did well though???


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Just for the record, Mike's 346 is faster than mine. I tried to beat you repeatedly at Bills and just couldn't get it done Andre, you did a mighty fine job on that saw!


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> I didn't make the fall one...:censored:
> Don't count anyway, cause Mr. Fluffy, and JD's 7900 weren't there... Or did Scott bring them?
> How did the 4 cube shake out..???
> :hell_boy:
> ...



I didn't have a 4 cube to run. We forgot to get the Mission Backpack/Joat 460 out for the races. I ran it against a ported 461 later and beat it.


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I didn't have a 4 cube to run. We forgot to get the Mission Backpack out for the races. I ran it against a ported 461 later and beat it.



Good deal... I liked that saw...
Too fancy to use, but nice.:msp_wink:


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Just for the record, Mike's 346 is faster than mine. I tried to beat you repeatedly at Bills and just couldn't get it done Andre, you did a mighty fine job on that saw!



Don't forget Nik, he did the machine work.


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## mdavlee (Jan 9, 2013)

261 is my vote


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## moody (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm kind of having a hard time deciding on this 50cc subject. Because of my recent discoveries on the 340,345,350 saws. Speed I'll lose but they're so much fun to build. I'm thinking if I find one for the right price soon another conversion hybrid porting duck tape muffler flashing bar and airbrushed flames... and stuff:kilt:


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## Tzed250 (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I recommend for the best running and strongest 50cc saw currently on the market.
> 
> 
> 346XP or 2153
> ...



What is the total price for all of that?


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> What is the total price for all of that?



And whats the total power gain adding the intake,carb,carb work,and coil over not?


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> And whats the total power gain adding the intake,carb,carb work,and coil over not?



Not enough to overcome a dull chain...


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> And whats the total power gain adding the intake,carb,carb work,and coil over not?



I've not tested the 357 intake conversion alone.


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> What is the total price for all of that?



New 346XP, PHO = $425
New OEM lback unlimited coil = $40
Walbro Carb = $50
357 Intake Parts = $75ish
Port/machine work = $250, including return shipping
TOTAL = $840

You don't have to do the carb/intake swap to make a great runner. The above is just how to max it out.


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Not enough to overcome a dull chain...



Or a bad operator:msp_w00t:


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Andre pretty much nailed it. If you want max power, go with a 346 or 2153. There are only a few 2153s left out there if you're considering that route. My second choice, ported, would be the 261. It'll be right on the heals of the 346. If going with a 550, I would not port it. IMHO, it's not worth the investment. MM it and be done with it.





Hedgerow said:


> Agreed... If ya want the 261 to run with "not beat" the 346, it'll have to have it's strato configuration changed...
> If I had to buy a new Stihl today, it would be a 261... They really are little fat bottomed beasts.
> Thank goodness I don't have to do that...
> 
> ...





SawTroll said:


> Since the results of porting the 550xp isn't quite there yet, there really are only one candidate left at this point, the 346xp.



I'm calling bull#### on the 550.

I got a 41% gain.......


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm calling bull#### on the 550.
> 
> I got a 41% gain.......



Is it as fast as a proven strong 346?


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## sunfish (Jan 9, 2013)

This thread has me wantin 'another' 346xp.



And a 550xp.



:msp_biggrin:


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

Same chain on all three.


[video=youtube;Z897fnSfxUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z897fnSfxUw[/video]


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 9, 2013)

Nice one Randy,if ya go bye looks them Huskys are IMO down right ugly.:smile2:


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Your video agrees with what I've been saying. If you're wanting the fastest ported 50cc saw, go with a 346 or 2153.


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Nice one Randy,if ya go bye looks them Huskys are IMO down right ugly.:smile2:



Yeah they ain't built for looks though. 

That 2153 is the very best one of those I've done........it barely beat the 550 and the 550 was on it's second tank......


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Your video agrees with what I've been saying. If you're wanting the fastest ported 50cc saw, go with a 346 or 2153.



But it disagrees with your statement that the 550 shouldn't be ported. :msp_wink:


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## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> But it disagrees with your statement that the 550 shouldn't be ported. :msp_wink:



Yeah... But you'd port a toaster!!!


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

This is the best comparison vid I have with the 346 against the 261. Ignore the first 346. It does not have a popup. Again, the 346 comes out slightly ahead of the 261. We're only talking about 1/2 second difference though. Both are fantastic saws!

[video=youtube_share;21sHdlNzdNk]http://youtu.be/21sHdlNzdNk[/video]


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Bottom line, you can't call any of these saws losers. They're all fantastic saws and you have to use a stop watch and split hairs to pick out the fastest.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm calling bull#### on the 550.
> 
> I got a 41% gain.......



And that was with substituting a rusty sardine can for the piston?


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Yeah... But you'd port a toaster!!!



lol

When we were kids we hopped up our slot cars by removing some of the windings from the motors. They didn't last long but damn....... :msp_wink:


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> And that was with substituting a rusty sardine can for the piston?



You said you wouldn't tell.


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Unfortunately, I don't have any vids with the 550 against my 346. Here it is before I had it all sorted out.

[video=youtube_share;gM18D_L6JOU]http://youtu.be/gM18D_L6JOU[/video]


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## Jacob J. (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Same chain on all three.



I'd be happy with any one of your ported 50cc saws, but that J'red looked downright nasty...


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I'd be happy with any one of your ported 50cc saws, but that J'red looked downright nasty...



I have that spec sheet bronzed. :msp_biggrin:


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Here's another vid of that worthless, poorly balanced Stihl

20" B&C
[video=youtube_share;kyh-CU13Woc]http://youtu.be/kyh-CU13Woc[/video]


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## solo (Jan 9, 2013)

To me it sounded like the 2153 in Masterminds video had more torque than the 550. The 2153 sounded like it's RPS held better and easier.


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## mt.stalker (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I recommend for the best running and strongest 50cc saw currently on the market.
> 
> 
> 346XP or 2153
> ...



Brad , could you elaborate on that 'monkey walbro a little more ?


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

solo said:


> To me it sounded like the 2153 in Masterminds video had more torque than the 550. The 2153 sounded like it's RPS held better and easier.



Hey stranger. Your ears must have been burning


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

mt.stalker said:


> Brad , could you elaborate on that 'monkey walbro a little more ?



It's a Walbro 199, as used to come stock on a 357XP, that's been fixed by Tree Monkey. Husky replaced these with a Zama, but the Walbro works better when working right. Tree Monkey knows how to make that happen.


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

solo said:


> To me it sounded like the 2153 in Masterminds video had more torque than the 550. The 2153 sounded like it's RPS held better and easier.



The point of posting the video wasn't to say that the 550 was the strongest or best, I just wanted to show that they do respond to proper porting very well.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 9, 2013)

The 2153 has not seen any wood since that video. (I did start it right before I drained it and put it on the shelf) Too purdy to use. Think I read somewhere that the 550 had very mild port work which kinda stole my 2153's thunder.


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

My point, is that the 550 starts out significantly stronger than the 346, yet ends up slightly behind the 346. IMHO, the gains over a MM aren't worth $250. A MMd 550 is the best value. A ported 346 is the strongest overall if you want to spend the money. Unfortunately, that option won't be around much longer, at least not in a new saw.


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## komatsuvarna (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> My point, is that the 550 starts out significantly stronger than the 346,* yet ends up slightly behind the 346.* IMHO, the gains over a MM aren't worth $250. A MMd 550 is the best value. A ported 346 is the strongest overall if you want to spend the money. Unfortunately, that option won't be around much longer, at least not in a new saw.



Says who? They's been a few ported on here to date. How many 346s have been done and how long have they been done?


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

I think I can get even more out of a 550 than I did on the last one. I left a lot on the table.


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## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> Says who? They's been a few ported on here to date. How many 346s have been done and how long have they been done?



All I can do is comment what I have seen personally and the few that we've seen ported here. I have not said that they never will be as strong as a 346. I can only comment on the here and now. That's all that matters anyway. I'm not looking for an arguement. I'm simply reporting what has been found so far. The OP is looking for a new saw, and I'm trying to help him by giving him the latest info I know, based on both personal experience, and that reported here by others.


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> All I can do is comment what I have seen personally and the few that we've seen ported here. I have not said that they never will be as strong as a 346. I can only comment on the here and now. That's all that matters anyway. I'm not looking for an arguement. I'm simply reporting what has been found so far.



Did you run the one I ported????? John's maybe?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Did you run the one I ported????? John's maybe?



I can't say that I did. However, your video agrees with what I've found and am trying to convey here.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> All I can do is comment what I have seen personally and the few that we've seen ported here. I have not said that they never will be as strong as a 346. I can only comment on the here and now. That's all that matters anyway. I'm not looking for an arguement. I'm simply reporting what has been found so far.



True Brad, I agree to a point. Nothing against anybody here, But I doubt very seriously that the first couple tries at porting any new saw will be the maximum potential. I think it takes a few times to see what likes what... just my opinion anyways.



I guess I'll have to wait a few years before I say '' I told ya so. '' :msp_wink:


No arguing from me bud...everyone's opinion is right in their own mind!


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I can't say that I did. However, your video agrees with what I've found and am trying to convey here.



Whatever


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> True Brad, I agree to a point. Nothing against anybody here, But I doubt very seriously that the first couple tries at porting any new saw will be the maximum potential. I think it takes a few times to see what likes what... just my opinion anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not disagreeing with you at all. All we have is the here and now, with what we know right now. Based on that information, the 346 is the strongest ported 50cc saw. Will that change? I guarantee you that it will. Will it be the 550? It very well may be. However, that's not the case right now.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you at all. All we have is the here and now, with what we know right now. Based on that information, the 346 is the strongest ported 50cc saw. Will that change? I guarantee you that it will. Will it be the 550? It very well may be. However, that's not the case right now.



But you are only going by the one that in my opinion you ####ed up beyond repair. It kills me the way you spout #### off like it's a fact based on very limited info. Just because you didn't get good gains by over-porting a 550 does not mean that they aren't there. 

I feel better now.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> And whats the total power gain adding the intake,carb,carb work,and coil over not?



I can't say it's much at all, but I didn't do any testing. My guess would be in the single digits.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> But you are only going by the one that in my opinion you ####ed up beyond repair. It kills me the way you spout #### off like it's a fact based on very limited info. Just because you didn't get good gains by over-porting a 550 does not mean that they aren't there.
> 
> I feel better now.



Well......I guess I'm not the only one that felt that way . That cylinder had the dog piss ground out of it.... especially the piston too :msp_w00t:.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> But you are only going by the one that in my opinion you ####ed up beyond repair. It kills me the way you spout #### off like it's a fact based on very limited info. Just because you didn't get good gains by over-porting a 550 does not mean that they aren't there.
> 
> I feel better now.



Wow. Plain and simple,* that's not true*. I ruined the carb experimenting with it, and it was replaced. The cylinder was exactly as I wanted it, not much unlike yours. Randy, I have no interested in fighting with you. It seems that we got similiar results out of our 550s, as evidenced by both of our vids. What's the beef?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Wow. Plain and simple,* that's not true*. I ruined the carb experimenting with it, and it was replaced. The cylinder was exactly as I wanted it, not much unlike yours. Randy, I have no interested in fighting with you. It seems that we got similiar results out of our 550s, as evidenced by both of our vids. What's the beef?



It's just those "Blanket Statements" of yours. They wear on me. 

Videos prove nothing unless the same chain is used in the same wood.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> Well......I guess I'm not the only one that felt that way . That cylinder had the dog piss ground out of it.... especially the piston too :msp_w00t:.



Say what? I took a couple thousands off the piston to set the squish after the base gasket was dropped. Nothing else was done to it? There aren't even pics of the P&C, so what in the world are you guys talking about?


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Say what? I took a couple thousands off the piston to set the squish after the base gasket was dropped. Nothing else was done to it? There aren't even pics of the P&C, so what in the world are you guys talking about?



Im talking about the pictures of the piston you posted where you had ground the hell out of the Strato ports on the piston. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I need to do a quick search...


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It's just those "Blanket Statements" of yours. They wear on me.
> 
> Videos prove nothing unless the same chain is used in the same wood.



Blanket statements? Many of my statements are prefaced or followed by "IMHO". If you don't like my opinion, then ignore it, just like everyone has the right to. But to make personal attacks, that I take exception to. I really hate that you had to go here.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> Im talking about the pictures of the piston you posted where you had ground the hell out of the Strato ports on the piston. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I need to do a quick search...



I'll do it for you. Here is the gallery of every pic I took of my 550. LINK


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I have that spec sheet bronzed. :msp_biggrin:



Yup.. But you know the next one you use those #'s on will be different... Maybe better? Maybe not... But pretty sure still very nice...


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

When you said the 550 shouldn't be ported it raised the hairs on the back of my neck. If you don't want to do one fine. But some people listen to what you say and your statements could cost Mitch, John, Treemonkey, Stumpy........a job. 

You never think about anyone but yourself and I'm sick of it. Plain enough?


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 9, 2013)

Randy clocked 41% better. I got very similar gains from my port work. Truth be known I was very conservative with the die grinder and the squish band. Brad, you have to admit that at one point you said that porting the 441 was for naught, but that turned out to be untrue.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I'll do it for you. Here is the gallery of every pic I took of my 550. LINK



Ok Brad. Your right, I'm wrong. I'm done, 5:30 comes early.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> When you said the 550 shouldn't be ported it raised the hairs on the back of my neck. If you don't want to do one fine. But some people listen to what you say and you statements could cost Mitch, John, Treemonkey, Stumpy........a job.
> 
> You never think about anyone but yourself and I'm sick of it. Plain enough?



I stand by that statement. It's not just you. It affects me as well. Until a way is found to make the 550 run stronger than we currently have, I'll not take someones $250. It seems to me that the $$$ are getting a little too important here. Additionally, you have the right to disagree with me here. Do so, please. Just don't make personal attacks, making accusations that are not true, in an effort to make your point.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> Ok Brad. Your right, I'm wrong. I'm done, 5:30 comes early.



Durand, I take no joy in having people upset with me. I challenge you to look at the facts before you jump on the bandwagon. I enjoy having each and every one of you as my friends, and I don't care to see that destroyed. Good night, my friend


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I stand by that statement. It's not just you. It affects me as well. Until a way is found to make the 550 run stronger than we currently have, I'll not take someones $250. It seems to me that the $$$ are getting a little too important here. Additionally, you have the right to disagree with me here. Do so, please. Just don't make personal attacks, making accusations that are not true, in an effort to make your point.



John went mild.....got great gains.

I went mild.......got great gains.

You screwed yours up.

Where is the untrue statement?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, you have to admit that at one point you said that porting the 441 was for naught, but that turned out to be untrue.



Again, not true. If you go back, you'll find that I've been a major contributor to help dispell that myth.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> John went mild.....got great gains.
> 
> I went mild.......got great gains.
> 
> ...



Randy, I'm not fighting with you. It's obvious that you have a personal agenda here, and I'm not going there.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Durand, I take no joy in having people upset with me. I challenge you to look at the facts before you jump on the bandwagon. I enjoy having each and every one of you as my friends, and I don't care to see that destroyed. Good night, my friend



If you don't want people upset with you why do you consistently make statements like that the ones in this thread?

And if you never port another saw it will not hurt your income in the least....we all know that this is just a hobby for you.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I stand by that statement. It's not just you. It affects me as well. *Until a way is found to make the 550 run stronger* than we currently have, I'll not take someones $250. It seems to me that the $$$ are getting a little too important here. Additionally, you have the right to disagree with me here. Do so, please. Just don't make personal attacks, making accusations that are not true, in an effort to make your point.



*That requires doing them. *

Does that mean you'll do them for free? otstir:


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not fighting with you. It's obvious that you have a personal agenda here, and I'm not going there.



I'm just looking out for the good of the community here. :msp_wink:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> Randy clocked 41% better. I got very similar gains from my port work. Truth be known I was very conservative with the die grinder and the squish band.



AFAIK, none of our 550s have been run against each other. Based on the vids where they were compared against other models, it would appear that we have all attained similiar results. Spike did comment when my stock saw was back with it's original bad carb, that it was the strongest 550 of the bunch. Perhaps I simply started with a stronger 550. It bothers me not if you guys build a faster 550. What does matter to me is when personal attacks are made.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> *That requires doing them. *
> 
> Does that mean you'll do them for free? otstir:



I've done my fair share of free port jobs. Why?


----------



## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Just wanted to check back and see if this thread went off topic

I do have a brand new NE346xp non CAT on it's wayI thought long and hard about the 550xp and even held one in my hands for awhile.The 550xp is different looking compared to the 346xp.I will be getting an orange clutch cover for it to so if anyone wants to buy a silver clutch cover never used that fits a few different models I got one coming?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> If you don't want people upset with you why do you consistently make statements like that the ones in this thread?
> 
> And if you never port another saw it will not hurt your income in the least....we all know that this is just a hobby for you.



What statements Randy? I've simply stated what I believe to be the truth. Even if you strongly disagree with them, that still give you no right to start throwing personal attacks.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> What statements Randy? I've simply stated what I believe to be the truth. Even if you strongly disagree with them, that still give you no right to start throwing personal attacks.



You ported one 550. It didn't do very well. (Mine was great) (So was John's) (I think Mitch was pleased too)

Now they ain't worth porting. (Only in your mind)

See what I'm getting at? (of course not)

It's always the same #### with you....over and over and over. I'm just tried of it. 

Now you'll act all "why is he attacking me?"......just like always. 

I'm done with this. Moving on.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Just wanted to check back and see if this thread went off topic
> 
> I do have a brand new NE346xp non CAT on it's wayI thought long and hard about the 550xp and even held one in my hands for awhile.The 550xp is different looking compared to the 346xp.I will be getting an orange clutch cover for it to so if anyone wants to buy a silver clutch cover never used that fits a few different models I got one coming?



Clutch cover color is a big negative on these new saws. Randy's gonna be doing a 562xpw for me that we're ordering. As soon as I get it back from him, I'll have that clutch cover off and take it to be powdercoated to match Husky Orange. :msp_wink:


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 9, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Clutch cover color is a big negative on these new saws. Randy's gonna be doing a 562xpw for me that we're ordering. As soon as I get it back from him, I'll have that clutch cover off and take it to be powdercoated to match Husky Orange. :msp_wink:



How many seconds faster is the orange clutch cover?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 9, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> How many seconds faster is the orange clutch cover?:hmm3grin2orange:




it's a ocd thing. you wouldnt understand.:msp_biggrin: Very particular.:msp_wink: was gonna hold out for the 2260 to get the better looking variant- but Im tired of waiting. When i saw Parrisw thread on the full wrap model- it was a done deal.

faster- I wouldn't know. Probably spend most of it's time on the shelf next to the others.


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

I don't want to start an argument but I think that hot rodded NE346xp on ebay would blow away any 50cc saw any of you builders could build:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Tzed250 (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I don't want to start an argument but I think that hot rodded NE346xp on ebay would blow away any 50cc saw any of you builders could build:hmm3grin2orange:



That guy that builds those saws is the All Being Master of Time, Space, and Dimension.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I don't want to *start an argument* but I think that hot rodded NE346xp on ebay would blow away any 50cc saw any of you builders could build:hmm3grin2orange:



I'm done fussing for now. :msp_wink:


----------



## nmurph (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Just wanted to check back and see if this thread went off topic
> 
> I do have a brand new NE346xp non CAT on it's wayI thought long and hard about the 550xp and even held one in my hands for awhile.The 550xp is different looking compared to the 346xp.I will be getting an orange clutch cover for it to so if anyone wants to buy a silver clutch cover never used that fits a few different models I got one coming?



I will probably take that cover when you get ready to swap it.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> That guy that builds those saws is the All Being Master of Time, Space, and Dimension.



Yes he is and I forgot he has a hot rodded 550xp that will kick ass on any ported 50cc in the universe.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Yes he is and I forgot he has a hot rodded 550xp that will kick ass on any ported 50cc in the universe.



His secret is the silver tape on the handle.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> But you are only going by the one that in my opinion* you ####ed up beyond repair*. It kills me the way you spout #### off like it's a fact based on very limited info. Just because you didn't get good gains by* over-porting a 550 *does not mean that they aren't there.





Mastermind said:


> John went mild.....got great gains.
> 
> I went mild.......got great gains.
> 
> ...





Mastermind said:


> You ported one 550. It didn't do very well. (Mine was great) (So was John's) (I think Mitch was pleased too)
> 
> Now they ain't worth porting. (Only in your mind)
> 
> ...



I went back and found exactly what I did to my 550. Where you're coming up with all this crap is beyond me. Look at your attitude when I built the saw. Contrast that to tonight.



blsnelling said:


> I ported the 550 today. The first thing that totally shocked me was the port timing. This thing only had 6* blowdown! I checked and double checked. Exhaust is all the way down at 109 and the transfer way up at 115. The intake was 73, IIRC. I decided to raise the exhaust enough to give it 10* of blowdown. I dropped the intake to 78*. The exhaust got widened a LOT, to get it to 70%. I slightly widened the transfers and strato ports, as I do on all stratos. I tightened the squish from .028" to .017".
> 
> The before cut time was 7.12 and after was only 6.93. I basically gained nothing. I'm going to go back in it and give it a popup piston and remove the base gasket. I'm *not *inclined to raise the transfer to get the 6* blowdown back.
> 
> I'm wondering if the carb is maxed out, either by flow, or by the electronic fuel control. I hear that the diagnostic tool will show the percentage of max possible fuel that it's using. I might have to send it back north to see where it's at.



As you can read, the final port timing was
Exhaust - 105°
Transfers - 115° (Still stock)
Intake - 78°

And you're calling this over-ported and screwed up? Just for the record, my 550 ran great!



blsnelling said:


> I cut a small popup and ditched the base gasket tonight. The popup is only about .020" tall, so didn't expect much change, and it didn't. The cut time is the same as last nights. Don't get me wrong, the saw runs fantastic with excellent throttle response. Just letting the saw self feed, it'll turn 13,000 or better in the cut. With a medium load it turns about 11,000. To get it down to 10,000 you really have to lean on it. I'm just not finding the gains you would expect from porting. I'll play with the carb next.



The following comments were after I ruined the carb looking for additional gains. My how things have changed!



Mastermind said:


> If you're gonna make an omelet........ya gotta break some eggs. :cool2:
> 
> I have a few jugs that I "overcooked".......and a few that I destroyed in the process of learning how to run a burr at 20,000 rpm. I also have a box with carbs that I've killed......I keep that stuff as a reminder of what not to do.





Mastermind said:


> I really enjoy that way we all share results and info. *I don't miss the days when the builders were all about cutting each others throats. If Brad hadn't took the plunge on the 261 we would all most likely still be wondering where the gains were in that saw*.



I haven't changed Randy. You have.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 9, 2013)

_H J_




Mastermind said:


> But you are only going by the one that in my opinion you ####ed up beyond repair. It kills me the way you spout #### off like it's a fact based on very limited info. Just because you didn't get good gains by over-porting a 550 does not mean that they aren't there.
> 
> I feel better now.



There are a few guys that spout out here on AS on vary limited information and people think it's fact and nothing get's said about that 


_JMO_

Now back to your regular scheduled programming :msp_wink:


opcorn:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> _H J_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lately, it seems as though everyone's allowed an opinion, except me. Go figure What ever happened to disagreeing with someone's opinion and moving on?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

Neither of us has changed at all Brad. Some of the things you have posted over the last few weeks have perhaps opened my eyes to how you operate. You don't think of anyone else when you post. I've tried to forget about it but I'm not very good at that it seems. 

Let's just say I think much less of you than I did a month or two ago. 

BTW.....most of what you did in the jug wasn't needed. The timing numbers aren't the only thing to consider.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I don't want to start an argument but I think that hot rodded NE346xp on ebay would blow away any 50cc saw any of you builders could build:hmm3grin2orange:



You should buy one and check it out for us


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Just wanted to check back and see if this thread went off topic
> 
> I do have a brand new NE346xp non CAT on it's wayI thought long and hard about the 550xp and even held one in my hands for awhile.The 550xp is different looking compared to the 346xp.I will be getting an orange clutch cover for it to so if anyone wants to buy a silver clutch cover never used that fits a few different models I got one coming?



Congrats on the new saw You'll have a fantastic saw, regaurdless of who you have build it. All of the guys here do good work. Most importantly, have fun with it!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> How many seconds faster is the orange clutch cover?:hmm3grin2orange:


I don't care if it makes it slower,I just like the way it looks.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

I hate the new silver parts as well. The finish is worthless.


----------



## bplust (Jan 9, 2013)

I didn't read any of this thread besides the last page, but for what my $.02 was worth, I'd probably just buy a 70cc saw and not worry about the time and/or money involved in porting a 50cc saw.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

bplust said:


> I didn't read any of this thread besides the last page, but for what my $.02 was worth, I'd probably just buy a 70cc saw and not worry about the time and/or money involved in porting a 50cc saw.



But what would I do with my ported 60cc saw then
I know 20 years ago that is what I would have said but wait till you get over 60 and you have pains just lifting a beer can.I know a guy that cuts 3 cords a year with his WILD THING and that is no lie.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Neither of us has changed at all Brad. Some of the things you have posted over the last few weeks have perhaps opened my eyes to how you operate. You don't think of anyone else when you post. I've tried to forget about it but I'm not very good at that it seems.
> 
> Let's just say I think much less of you than I did a month or two ago.
> 
> BTW.....most of what you did in the jug wasn't needed. The timing numbers aren't the only thing to consider.



Randy, I simply tell it like I see it. Sometimes it's not the popular thing to do. If a product is crap, I call it crap, regardless of the brand or vendor. If a name brand is selling crap, I'll say so. If a no-name brand is selling above what we would expect from them, I'll say so. That hasn't change, and it won't change. If I don't think it's worth porting a 550, I'll say so. That's my opinion. You're entitled to disagree with that. What you're not entitled to do is resort to making it personal, rather than factually defending your position. 

It would also appear that you're going behind my back and running down my work and reputation down. The claims you made tonight about my 550 are nothing less than malicious. I expect more than that from someone that I thought was my friend. I've been careful not to do that to you, even when I disagreed with you on something. I shared what I learned about the MS460, resulting in you winning the buildoff. That was fun and we had a great time laughing about it. I shared what I learned on the MS261. That's what you and others based your builds off of. You shared many things as well, including how you build a 660. I thank you for that! It's a crying shame that it's come to this tonight. When you're ready to see this like it is, I'm still here to be your friend.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, I simply tell it like I see it. Sometimes it's not the popular thing to do. If a product is crap, I call it crap, regardless of the brand or vendor. If a name brand is selling crap, I'll say so. If a no-name brand is selling above what we would expect from them, I'll say so. That hasn't change, and it won't change. If I don't think it's worth porting a 550, I'll say so. That's my opinion. You're entitled to disagree with that. What you're not entitled to do is resort to making it personal, rather than factually defending your position.
> 
> It would also appear that you're going behind my back and running down my work and reputation down. The claims you made tonight about my 550 are nothing less than malicious. I expect more than that from someone that I thought was my friend. I've been careful not to do that to you, even when I disagreed with you on something. I shared what I learned about the MS460, resulting in you winning the buildoff. That was fun and we had a great time laughing about it. I shared what I learned on the MS261. That's what you and others based your builds off of. It's a crying shame that it's come to this tonight. When you're ready to see this like it is, I'm still here to be your friend.



No you simply tell it as you see it. No matter whether it's true or not. 

I've not said anything about you behind you back that I wouldn't say to your face. I think you know me well enough to know that.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> No you simply tell it as you see it. No matter whether it's true or not.
> 
> I've not said anything about you behind you back that I wouldn't say to your face. I think you know me well enough to know that.



Let me remind you. I tried to talk to you on the phone, and you refused. I wanted to work this out, as friends, and you refused to talk. That was several weeks ago now. I've heard nothing from you.


----------



## bplust (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> But what would I do with my ported 60cc saw then
> I know 20 years ago that is what I would have said but wait till you get over 60 and you have pains just lifting a beer can.I know a guy that cuts 3 cords a year with his WILD THING and that is no lie.



Understood (though not through direct experience, as I'm 28 years old), and respected. Good point. 

I don't doubt the Wild Thing. Using it to cut for yourself is fine, and I've seen them cut a surprising amount of wood, but it's nothing most would take miles into the woods and expect to put food on the table. Though I'm sure a ported 60cc is REAL nice, especially with what today's saws weigh.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Let me remind you. I tried to talk to you on the phone, and you refused. I wanted to work this out, as friends, and you refused to talk. That was several weeks ago now. I've heard nothing from you.



You said yourself.......you've not changed. Nor will you ever. How could we work anything out? Try to think about that from all angles. Don't just let it go in one ear and out the other. 

I didn't want to talk to you then or now. I may never again.

I'm very slow to get angry.......it takes weeks of thinking about things....playing it over in my mind for me to decide if I should be upset or not. The reason I take my time is that I want to be fair. Once I decide to cross someone off the friends list it is not ever going to change. 

Right now I'm just mildly aggravated with you. I hope to keep it that way.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Well, I guess that's that. I'm going to bed, but sure won't be sleeping well. Woodyman, don't let all this distract you from enjoying your new saw.


----------



## 1Alpha1 (Jan 9, 2013)

Just for the record, I had nothing to do with this thread going south.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

dano said:


> Just for the record, I had nothing to do with this thread going south.



You know you "started it":jester: Matter of fact, I think this thread is flooded, lol


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> You know you "started it":jester: Matter of fact, I think this thread is flooded, lol



I thought you were going to bed?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I thought you were going to bed?



I lied:msp_wink: I got caught up in a TV show.


----------



## bplust (Jan 9, 2013)

woodyman said:


> but wait till you get over 60 and you have pains just lifting a beer can.



I'd probably give up and drop a straw into it, as I'm really lazy. A "crazy" straw if I wasn't in a hurry.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 9, 2013)

dano said:


> Just for the record, I had nothing to do with this thread going south.




dano just get some opcorn: and enjoy the show or even better yet a piece of apple pie with a slice of cedder cheese on it with a scoop of ice cream on top :msp_w00t:


_JMO_


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 9, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> dano just get some opcorn: and enjoy the show or even better yet a piece of apple pie with a slice of cedder cheese on it with a scoop of ice cream on top :msp_w00t:
> 
> 
> _JMO_



I'm all out of popcorn


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## Mastermind (Jan 9, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I'm all out of popcorn



And I'm heading for the shower......


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 9, 2013)

dano said:


> Just for the record, I had nothing to do with this thread going south.



clicked back on the thread cause I saw you posted last and wanted to see what you had to add onthe 50cc saw debate. Near cost me a keyboard, took a drink right as I read your post. Of course you had nothing to do with it going south- hasnt been about a 261 in about 6 pages. How is the ol' girl by the way?otstir:


----------



## bcorradi (Jan 9, 2013)

IMO if your a guy making his income porting saws...of course your like new models and won't say moderate gains aren't to be had with any of them.


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## 1Alpha1 (Jan 9, 2013)

I always forget a paper towel or two when I sit down with some popcorn.........:msp_angry:

I was gonna say something about porting a saw, but I don't think it would go over all that well. :taped:


----------



## bplust (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> And I'm heading for the shower......



So you're saying that in addition to your porting abilities, you can make one's shower produce popcorn? sign me up! I'll get the reciprocating saw out right now and have that sucker in the mail tomorrow.


----------



## 1Alpha1 (Jan 9, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> clicked back on the thread cause I saw you posted last and wanted to see what you had to add onthe 50cc saw debate. Near cost me a keyboard, took a drink right as I read your post. Of course you had nothing to do with it going south- hasnt been about a 261 in about 6 pages. How is the ol' girl by the way?otstir:




We're getting along famously...........


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 9, 2013)

dano said:


> I always forget a paper towel or two when I sit down with some popcorn.........:msp_angry:
> 
> I was gonna say something about porting a saw, but I don't think it would go over all that well. :taped:



It would probably fly like a lead duck


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## 04ultra (Jan 9, 2013)

Some things never change.............


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## 1Alpha1 (Jan 9, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> dano just get some opcorn: and enjoy the show or even better yet a piece of apple pie with a slice of cedder cheese on it with a scoop of ice cream on top :msp_w00t:
> 
> 
> _JMO_




Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a slice of cheese on a piece of pie.


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## woodyman (Jan 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> And I'm heading for the shower......



I'm heading for the pooper,to much popcorn.


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## H 2 H (Jan 9, 2013)

dano said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a piece of cheese on a slice of pie.




Try it one time; place the cheese on it and nuke it just until the cheese starts to melt then put a scoop of ice cream on it :msp_wink:



_JMO_


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## 1Alpha1 (Jan 9, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Try it one time; place the cheese on it and nuke it just until the cheese starts to melt then put a scoop of ice cream on it :msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> _JMO_





Will do!


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> And whats the total power gain adding the intake,carb,carb work,and coil over not?



I left out a few details in my last post. I was referring to the 357 carb and intake setup. I saw an almost 15% gain after working over a stock 346 carb. IMHO the gain is with the carb not the intake. For cookie cutting I also like the yellow filters.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> When you said the 550 shouldn't be ported it raised the hairs on the back of my neck. If you don't want to do one fine. But some people listen to what you say and your statements could cost Mitch, John, Treemonkey, Stumpy........a job.
> 
> You never think about anyone but yourself and I'm sick of it. Plain enough?



Sorry but who gives a rats ass if what I or anyone says, makes someone loose a job if it's the truth. I didn't see Brad state the 550 couldn't be made into a runner, but like I said before, I haven't seen one run with a 346 YET. Randy you're a fine gentleman, but in this case you saw what you wanted to see, when nothing was there. This is why I've had such reluctance in become a sponsor or start taking on more jobs, it's just not worth the BS.


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 10, 2013)

This all bewilders me a bit,if ya got money on a cooky race fine,but if ya just cut firewood who gives a sh_t a second here or there really.


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## DSS (Jan 10, 2013)

I think everybody should just go buy a 5000 plus and go cut wood. Faster than a 346 and you saved $250 on a port job you didn't need. 

I guess they don't look cool enough cutting cookies.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> This all bewilders me a bit,if ya got money on a cooky race fine,but if ya just cut firewood who gives a sh_t a second here or there really.



Can't say I disagree with you.

I'll just quietly keep kicking all their asses without even trying from time to time.oke: Honestly most of what these guys know is just copied from builders that have come and gone long ago, myself included. That's My .02.:msp_biggrin:


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## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 10, 2013)

Spending alittle more time making the chain cut, might be the real answer......Hahahahahahahaha!


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Spending alittle more time making the chain cut, might be the real answer......Hahahahahahahaha!



Or learning how to run a saw for timed cuts. 

I agree. I can't make a chain worth it's weight, I give lots of credit to guys that have that talent. 

My god I think I just agreed with the devil.:msp_biggrin:


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Sorry but who gives a rats ass if what I or anyone says, makes someone loose a job if it's the truth.



I'm going to guess the people that actually work on saws for a living care. Also, in this case, the "truth" you and Brad are quoting as fact seems to be your opinion and especially in Brads' case, does not seem to take reality into account.



Andyshine77]I didn't see Brad state the 550 couldn't be made into a runner said:


> The 550 is the absolute strongest 50cc saw if only MMd. IMHO, most of the gains to be had are in the MM. Other's opinions will vary. With what I've seen, I won't take your money to port a 550. They really are just that strong right out of the box with only a simply MM. With that said, I never ran my ported 550 against any other ported 550s. Reguardless, I've yet to see a 550 that will run as fast as a 346. If you're looking for the strongest new 50cc saw, then the choice is clear. Get either a 346 or 2153.





Andyshine77 said:


> Randy you're a fine gentleman, but in this case you saw what you wanted to see, when nothing was there. This is why I've had such reluctance in become a sponsor or start taking on more jobs, it's just not worth the BS.



I wouldn't worry about the BS, Brad wouldn't do that to a friend.


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## wigglesworth (Jan 10, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Spending alittle more time making the chain cut, might be the real answer......Hahahahahahahaha!



He speaks da truth....


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> He speaks da truth....



About many things, some people just have a hard time accepting it. :msp_wink:


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## Jacob J. (Jan 10, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Spending alittle more time making the chain cut, might be the real answer......Hahahahahahahaha!





wigglesworth said:


> He speaks da truth....



What about after we get our chain dialed in? I've been hand filing square-ground chain since I was high school.


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## wigglesworth (Jan 10, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Or learning how to run a saw for timed cuts.



Even more truth....


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> What about after we get our chain dialed in? I've been hand filing square-ground chain since I was high school.



It shouldn't take that long, have you tried a file with teeth on it?


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I'm going to guess the people that actually work on saws for a living care. Also, in this case, the "truth" you and Brad are quoting as fact seems to be your opinion and especially in Brads' case, does not seem to take reality into account.
> 
> 
> 
> No, what he said and what Randy was commenting on was that they are not worth the cost to have ported. You surely saw that, you even liked the post. If getting a 40% gain isn't worth $250 then it seems that Brad is guaranteeing that all his port jobs will be significantly better than that or they'll be free. Because he won't take someone's money for a gain of that amount, correct?



??? Brad said he couldn't get the gains he'd like from a 550 and wouldn't take anyone's money because of that fact. That sounds like a stand up thing to do if you ask me. Randy said himself the 550 couldn't outrun the 346, so I'm not sure what you're saying there. I will give Randy the fact it was a new saw and that can, and does make a difference.


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## wigglesworth (Jan 10, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> What about after we get our chain dialed in? I've been hand filing square-ground chain since I was high school.



Man, You've been square filing for like 57 years!!


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> ??? Brad said he couldn't get the gains he'd like from a 550 and wouldn't take anyone's money because of that fact. That sounds like a stand up thing to do if you ask me. Randy said himself the 550 couldn't outrun the 346, so I'm not sure what you're saying there. I will give Randy the fact it was a new saw and that can, and does make a difference.



No, what he said is that most of the gains for that saw are in a muffler mod (which he will happily take someone's money for) and that he is above taking someone's money for a port job because the gains aren't that significant and he is to good take someone's hard earned money for an insignificant gain.

Is a 40%+ gain significant? That's what you and he are saying and Brad is saying that he wouldn't take someone's money for that amount of gain. I guess every saw that he has ported has improved much more than that, when are the refunds being issued for the saws that haven't improved 50%? That would be the stand up thing to do, right?


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## Jacob J. (Jan 10, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Man, You've been square filing for like 57 years!!



lol...thanks...I think. umpkin2:


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## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 10, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Man, You've been square filing for like 57 years!!



Hey JJ.......could you help out Brad on this one. He needs someone to run a file across these teeth and make'm "sharp"......Hahahahahahaha!


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Is a 40%+ gain significant?


 
No! not when the bulk of that comes from a simple MM. At this point I don't see the value in porting a 550, but like I said that can change. I own a MM 346 that I could port anytime I please for free,:msp_wink: however I choose not to because it runs that well, I simply feel the same about the 550.


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## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm glad I got up to have a midnight snack - a piece of pie :msp_wink:


_JMO_


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> No! not when the bulk of that comes from a simple MM. At this point I don't see the value in porting a 550, but like I said that can change. I own a MM 346 that I could port anytime I please for free,:msp_wink: however I choose not to because it runs that well, I simply feel the same about the 550.



What percentage of the gains come from a MM? I'm sure you being able to port you're own saw for free, any time you want, is extremely helpful to someone looking to send theirs off. By your logic in this post 346's shouldn't be ported either because they are strong enough stock. So, your advice on the best saw to port is none? Just muffler mod and be done?


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## J_Arena (Jan 10, 2013)

This thread should have been called............... Bring on the Crybabies................. The tread was suppose to be about which ported 50cc saw OLD or NEW. Now it should be called..................... "Can you make gains on a 550 when it is ported". Who cares!! Porting is overrated..........


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## DSS (Jan 10, 2013)

Where the hell is Durand?? We need the Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamalamps again.


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## komatsuvarna (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Durand, I take no joy in having people upset with me. I challenge you to look at the facts before you jump on the bandwagon. I enjoy having each and every one of you as my friends, and I don't care to see that destroyed. Good night, my friend



I wasn't jumping on any wagon Brad!!
I thought id seen some pictures you posted of a 550 piston and cylinder ground all to crap.....im just a hack job myself but i thought what the heck is he doing!! I've searched and searched and cant find anything or even the pictures i supposedly seen. I guess i made a mistake somewhere along the lines......

Anyways, none of this matters much to me. I beat ya down in public about some pictures i cant even find that might not even be yours. I'll apologise in public for being in the wrong too, Sorry Brad, i guess i had some confusion on a few things and cant find anything to back up what i thought.....so i must be mistaken about the whole deal.


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## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> What percentage of the gains come from a MM? I'm sure you being able to port you're own saw for free, any time you want, is extremely helpful to someone looking to send theirs off. By your logic in this post 346's shouldn't be ported either because they are strong enough stock. So, your advice on the best saw to port is none? Just muffler mod and be done?



I got about 20% from the muffler mod, and another 20% from the port and machine work. A person would need to decide if they want to leave 20% sitting on the table.


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## DSS (Jan 10, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> I wasn't jumping on any wagon Brad!!
> I thought id seen some pictures you posted of a 550 piston and cylinder ground all to crap.....im just a hack job myself but i thought what the heck is he doing!! I've searched and searched and cant find anything or even the pictures i supposedly seen. I guess i made a mistake somewhere along the lines......
> 
> Anyways, none of this matters much to me. I beat ya down in public about some pictures i cant even find that might not even be yours. I'll apologise in public for being in the wrong too, Sorry Brad, i guess i had some confusion on a few things and cant find anything to back up what i thought.....so i must be mistaken about the whole deal.



Well lookie lookie. Someone may have made a mistake and owned up to it. 


Amazing. We could use more guys like that here. 











But I'm still calling for the Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabulamps. :cool2:


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 10, 2013)

You know what I see coming from this thread. A 550xp build off. 

The saw has to be able to be used as a work saw with multiple hardwood cuts over and over and pull 3/8 in a test cant. cant so all wood can be as even as possible. All must use the same stock 3/8 full comp full chisel chain off same reel etc. Reason I say 3/8 chain, because I have seen some ported 346 that dont have the balls to even pull 3/8 chain. I think torque should be in a work saw. :msp_thumbup:


Have fun now. Some have to earn a dollar and disappear for awhile.


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## Blazin (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I got about 20% from the muffler mod, and another 20% from the port and machine work. A person would need to decide if they want to leave 20% sitting on the table.



Or 40%....I've got at least a dozen tankfuls run thru my new 550, and I'm still on the fence about hacking the muffler...it just runs to damn good the way it is :msp_thumbup:


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## solo (Jan 10, 2013)

So the 346/2153 is the best ported 50cc saw?


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I got about 20% from the muffler mod, and another 20% from the port and machine work. A person would need to decide if they want to leave 20% sitting on the table.



What's the adage, the last 10% of performance takes 90% of the work? 

20% seems like a pretty big chunk to leave out, no? If I was paying $50 for a muffler mod, that takes an hour, I would think $200 for a six hour port job would be a good deal. 

Assuming both are done by a competent individual, of course.


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Same chain on all three.
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;Z897fnSfxUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z897fnSfxUw[/video]



IMO two tanks of fuel is not even close to showing a saws full potential. We all know the 550 will wake up a good amount with 15-20 tanks ran through it. How many tanks had been ran through the 2153 at the time of the comparison Randy?


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> What percentage of the gains come from a MM? I'm sure you being able to port you're own saw for free, any time you want, is extremely helpful to someone looking to send theirs off. By your logic in this post 346's shouldn't be ported either because they are strong enough stock. So, your advice on the best saw to port is none? Just muffler mod and be done?



You're nothing but a spin doctor, it doesn't matter what I say or how I say it. Goodbye.


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> You're nothing but a spin doctor, it doesn't matter what I saw or how I say it. Goodbye.



Hello, pot. 

I'm quoting what you wrote, no spin on my end. I'm sorry that you don't have the confidence in your position to defend it in a discussion.


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## DSS (Jan 10, 2013)

I don't think there's much to discuss. The numbers and the video is out there. People aren't stupid. Its not very hard to read between the lines and see the agenda here. Lots of expert backpedalers. 

I know where my saws will go for work. Hopefully everyone that reads all this bull#### will see and be able to make the right decision. 

I'm out. These threads are giving me gas and stuff.


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## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> You know what I see coming from this thread. A 550xp build off.
> 
> The saw has to be able to be used as a work saw with multiple hardwood cuts over and over and pull 3/8 in a test cant. cant so all wood can be as even as possible. All must use the same stock 3/8 full comp full chisel chain off same reel etc. Reason I say 3/8 chain, because I have seen some ported 346 that dont have the balls to even pull 3/8 chain. I think torque should be in a work saw. :msp_thumbup:
> 
> ...



I think that would be an excellent idea.I think for testing 3/8 chain is fine but think a 50cc saw should run .325 for my use.I would have bought the 550xp if it didn't have the AT carb on it.I quess I am still old school and am slow to change.Hell,I am still thinking about getting a cell phone.From what I have read and what I have learned over the years I might just port my NE346xp myself.A little widening,lowering and raising and some work on the transfer tunnels,no base gasket and a muffler mod.Its only a chainsaw,might as well have some fun with it.


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## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> From what I have read and what I have learned over the years I might just port my NE346xp myself.A little widening,lowering and raising and some work on the transfer tunnels,no base gasket and a muffler mod.Its only a chainsaw,might as well have some fun with it.



If you want to go that route, I'd be more than happy to help you. It's far more rewarding when you do it yourself!


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## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

MS460WOODCHUCK said:


> IMO two tanks of fuel is not even close to showing a saws full potential. We all know the 550 will wake up a good amount with 15-20 tanks ran through it. How many tanks had been ran through the 2153 at the time of the comparison Randy?



I'm not sure how many tanks had been put thru the 2153. It wasn't a new saw though. 

I'm sure as the 550 breaks in and loosens up it will gain. Whether or not it could ever beat that 2153 I haven't a clue. I did say that the 2153 was the very best one I've ever done. The planets must have been well alined when I bolted it together.....

I never have said the the 550 is stronger, strongest, or anything of the sort. I just don't feel that it's right for someone to spread misinformation about any of this stuff. 

Not just as an opinion.....but as a fact seen by myself and John....the 550XP will gain 40% or more from a proper woods port. 

This is what I said about the 550 in Oct of last year in reply to one of John's posts.



Mastermind said:


> I read that you were going to port yours without altering the timing numbers.....I say that the only way to get good gains from this engine is to do it just like the 562s I've built.
> 
> I ditch the base gasket and spin a popup to reset squish. Dropping the jug gives you more compression, intake and strato timing......but it *maintains the relationship between the intake and strato*. I feel that is key to keeping the autotune working as designed.
> 
> *You can then raise the exhaust and transfers a bit*.....



Widening the exhaust port adds to time/area just like raising it does. Too much of either on a work saw and the torque is gone.....

Many times we may think we understand these simple engines.....but we do not have all the data that the designers do. The relationships that they build into an engine with stratified combustion and autotune may have been well planned. Hogging everything in sight out with a Dremel may work on some engines but these take a bit of thought and planning. 

After sleeping on this whole deal I've decided that I totally stand by everything I have said on this matter. I didn't wander into this thread looking for a fight, but I saw one man stating his opinion as though it was a fact so I called him on it. 

I'm just looking out for the good of the community here.

Period.


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## sachsmo (Jan 10, 2013)

Yes Sir.

just because you grind material out, does not mean you will gain.

It is quite possible to go backwards, perhaps more likely to.

Just pick a good 50cc saw, there are several.


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## mdavlee (Jan 10, 2013)

2153 had 2 tanks through it when Steven got it. No major run time on it.


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## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> 2153 had 2 tanks through it when Steven got it. No major run time on it.



So chances are good that they will both gain a bit and the 2153 will still be a little stouter in the end.


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## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> Randy clocked 41% better. I got very similar gains from my port work. Truth be known I was very conservative with the die grinder and the squish band. Brad, you have to admit that at one point you said that porting the 441 was for naught, but that turned out to be untrue.





blsnelling said:


> Again, not true. If you go back, you'll find that I've been a major contributor to help dispell that myth.





blsnelling said:


> I'd sum it up like this. Weight's about equal, the 460 has more power stock than the 441 and responds *MUCH* better to mods. The only things the 441 has going for it is low vibes and better fuel economy. I don't find the vies a problem at all on the 460 so that's out the window. The 460 does use some fuel, but I'll pay that price for the performance. It's a no brainer for me. 460 all the way.



My memory isn't great, but its good enough...


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## Hedgerow (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> So chances are good that they will both gain a bit and the 2153 will still be a little stouter in the end.



As figured.... But how can yo put a value on how freaking slick these auto tunes are???? 
I'd work a saw over for 30% though... Gladly...
So 40 is a no brainer.
I pick and run the saws I like... 
It's a builders job to make em' run up to my "tolerable" level...


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## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> My memory isn't great, but its good enough...



There you go using facts and quotes to support your theory. Spin doctor.


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## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> My memory isn't great, but its good enough...



Come on John Before I ever started porting saws, the 441 was said to not respond well to mods. * I was one of the first to show that it could*. I have 441s out there that run as good as anyone's. Never the less, a 460 be can built to run stronger. In no way does that say that the 441 doesn't respond well to mods. It simply says that a 460 responds better.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 10, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> As figured.... But how can yo put a value on how freaking slick these auto tunes are????
> I'd work a saw over for 30% though... Gladly...
> So 40 is a no brainer.
> I pick and run the saws I like...
> It's a builders job to make em' run up to my "tolerable" level...



Auto tunes or iTunes whatever... Mitch lets his Huskys download all the rock & roll they want.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 10, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> 2153 had 2 tanks through it when Steven got it. No major run time on it.



I put no fuel thru it before I sent it to the boss- Randy. Cranked it when me and mdavlee did the swap- that was it. I wanted Randy to give it the once over before I used it (after my horrible 2095 experience). There are those I would buy used from- builders, mdavlee (cause I know him now), and many I would not (new members- with just a couple post under their belt and noone knows them). But if there is any way possible it will be new saws for me. 2153- hasnt been ran since I got it back.

My 2153 is the strongest the builder has done, and he has stated many times (not just here) that he left a lot on the table with the 550. The 346/2153 build has a lot of r&d in it. The 550 was uncharted territory to an extent. And all the builders had already had experience with the 261 and knew what to do to make it run- and it still falls short in timed cuts out of the group. But the common concensus is the 261 has more useable power/ torque in the woods.


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## gcsupraman (Jan 10, 2013)

Looks like everybody is awake this morning and ready for "round #2" opcorn:
[video=youtube_share;voLzLiSSmmM]http://youtu.be/voLzLiSSmmM[/video]


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## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Come on John Before I ever started porting saws, the 441 was said to not respond well to mods. * I was one of the first to show that it could*. I have 441s out there that run as good as anyone's. Never the less, a 460 be can built to run stronger. In no way does that say that the 441 doesn't respond well to mods. It simply says that a 460 responds better.



You come on Brad. You never said anything positive about porting a 441 until Jasha showed it could be made into a runner. Burried deep in the AS archives are those facts. You said the 441 didn't respond well to being ported, then later you took money to port 441s. Do you not even see the similarity to what you have said about the 550 vs. the 346? I do, and I'm fairly sure others do also.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Whatever. You guys will continue to spin everything to say whatever you want it to say.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Whatever. You guys will continue to spin everything to say whatever you want it to say.



I have spun a sum total of zero. I used your words, not mine.


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 10, 2013)

UPS broke the fins......oh ok...


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Whatever. You guys will continue to spin everything to say whatever you want it to say.



And this where I have an issue with you and your posts. It's the same every single time......

You post these bold statements and then when someone disagrees and sets out to get even a slight retraction from you they are then perceived (by you) as attacking you personally. I've been here long enough to remember many of these events. I'm not going into detail because I'm not bashing you (you just think I am) or your work. I would just once like to see you say that perhaps you may have overstepped in an assessment in this forum without someone having to drag it from you while you kick and scream. 

BTW......I ain't mad at you. I would love to see you do some soul searching here though.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> And this where I have an issue with you and your posts. It's the same every single time......
> 
> You post these bold statements and then when someone disagrees and sets out to get even a slight retraction from you they are then perceived (by you) as attacking you personally. I've been here long enough to remember many of these events. I'm not going into detail because I'm not bashing you (you just think I am) or your work. I would just once like to see you say that perhaps you may have overstepped in an assessment in this forum without someone having to drag it from you while you kick and scream.
> 
> BTW......I ain't mad at you. I would love to see you do some soul searching here though.




Post of the Year material right there.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

That goes both ways Randy. I would never call your work crap like you did last night, and using false info at that. And that's not because I've been impressed with every saw you built. Not every saw we build is a ringer, and I know that. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect you and you work. 

Basically, you're telling me that I'm not allowed to give my opinion, unless you agree with it. All I did last night was state my opinion. And I called it as much. You didn't like it because you're afraid it'll cost you income. Instead of simply disagreeing and stating your opinion, you chose to lash out with false personal attacks. You have no idea how much work I've sent your way! I'm sure it's in the thousands. If anyone hurt your income, you did so last night.


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Brad, are you an only child?


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> And this where I have an issue with you and your posts. It's the same every single time......
> 
> You post these bold statements and then when someone disagrees and sets out to get even a slight retraction from you they are then perceived (by you) as attacking you personally. I've been here long enough to remember many of these events. I'm not going into detail because I'm not bashing you (you just think I am) or your work. I would just once like to see you say that perhaps you may have overstepped in an assessment in this forum without someone having to drag it from you while you kick and scream.
> 
> BTW......I ain't mad at you. I would love to see you do some soul searching here though.



Brad, it'd do you good to read what Randy wrote here again...

I have respect for what you do with saws most of the time. But two of your build threads had me scratching my head. The ms261 build was one of the most confusing threads I've followed, ever! The 550xp build was not as bad, but still. 

Would it hurt too bad to admit you are sometimes wrong,
or still in the lower part of the learning curve, with regards a new model?


----------



## VTWoodchuck (Jan 10, 2013)

this thread makes me feel-
:sad4:


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

Brad? May I ask you a personal question? Why do you hide your online status from the other forum members?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> That goes both ways Randy. I would never call your work crap like you did last night, and using false info at that. And that's not because I've been impressed with every saw you built. Not every saw we build is a ringer, and I know that. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect you and you work.
> 
> Basically, you're telling me that I'm not allowed to give my opinion, unless you agree with it. All I did last night was state my opinion. And I called it as much. You didn't like it because you're afraid it'll cost you income. Instead of simply disagreeing and stating your opinion, you chose to lash out with false personal attacks. You have no idea how much work I've sent your way! I'm sure it's in the thousands. If anyone hurt your income, you did so last night.



I did fly off the handle a bit last night. I should have chosen my words more carefully. 

See how that works? I admitted that I made a mistake.


It frustrates me greatly that you are so closed minded and just keep on the same path until someone blocks the road on you. Again, you either have completely missed the point I'm trying to make here or are too self absorbed to see it. 

I know you have sent a lot of work my way. I assumed you did that because you knew I would do the best work I could and that the customer would be happy with it. If you think I've changed my work habits then by all means please tell everyone to steer clear of me and my work. But if it's just that I hurt your ego........well then that would again show how self serving you can be.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> The ms261 build was one of the most confusing threads I've followed, ever!



How so? It was in that thread that we ALL learned how to make that model run.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> Would it hurt too bad to admit you are sometimes wrong,
> or still in the lower part of the learning curve, with regards a new model?



I have admitted my mistakes and faults many times. Yes, I'm very much in the learning curve on the 550. However, I'm still of the opinion that most of the gains to be found in a 550, with what we know right now, is in a MM. Why am I not allowed to voice my opinion?


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> How so? It was in that thread that we ALL learned how to make that model run.



Confusion was just the impression I was left with. I could be wrong though... :msp_mellow:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I did fly off the handle a bit last night. I should have chosen my words more carefully.
> 
> See how that works? I admitted that I made a mistake.
> 
> ...



Randy, I thank you for that! I still don't see where I did anything more than state my opinion on the current state of affairs of the 550. The OP asked for opinions, and I stated mine. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I have admitted my mistakes and faults many times. Yes, I'm very much in the learning curve on the 550. However, I'm still of the opinion that most of the gains to be found in a 550, with what we know right now, is in a MM. *Why am I not allowed to voice my opinion?*



It's probably just the way you come across in the words you type. Bet it would be very different in person.

Might be better to say; The most gains *I* can find in the 550 are with a MM. Others may or may not be getting more gains than *I* am able to from porting.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> Confusion was just the impression I was left with. I could be wrong though... :msp_mellow:



Perhaps it was hard to follow. I don't know. However, that was a case where i put my neck on the line and share with the work as i tried to figure out how to make that model respond in a way that i found respectable. I went through several stages in that build. In the end, i came up with a solution that makes that model the what we know it can be today.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

So nothing about why you hide your online status??


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> It's probably just the way you come across in the words you type. Bet it would be very different in person.
> 
> Might be better to say; The most gains *I* can find in the 550 are with a MM. Others may or may not be getting more gains than *I* am able to from porting.



That's basically what i said


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> That's basically what i said



You said the 550 is not worth porting.


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Perhaps it was hard to follow. I don't know. However, that was a case where i put my neck on the line and share with the work as i tried to figure out how to make that model respond in a way that i found respectable. I went through several stages in that build. In the end, i came up with a solution that makes that model the what we know it can be today.



I'm not goin back and read it again, and I'll give it to you for jumping on a new model first.
It very well could have been all the *BS* added there by others. :msp_smile:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> So nothing about why you hide your online status??



No, I'd rather not. Anything I say can and will be used against me in a jungle court of law, lol.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> That's basically what i said



If it was or not. You are still missing the complete point of this conversation. 

You thanked me for admitting that I should have chosen my words more carefully but neglected to a acknowledge the rest of the post. 

Have you ever though about a 12 step program? It's a program of self evaluation and self disclosure.

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> You said the 550 is not worth porting.



And that's still my opinion. What's so difficult to understand about that? You're welcome to disagree. But, don't try to tell me that I'm not allowed to give mine.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> No, I'd rather not. Anything I say can and will be used against me in a jungle court of law, lol.



Fair enough. It's just that hiding generally means you have something to hide, which implies deceit.


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> It's probably just the way you come across in the words you type. Bet it would be very different in person.
> 
> Might be better to say; The most gains *I* can find in the 550 are with a MM. Others may or may not be getting more gains than *I* am able to from porting.





blsnelling said:


> That's basically what i said



No, you left out the *'I'* and ignored the gains others have gotten. This is the rub...

Sometimes our thoughts are not transmitted to the words we type. :msp_smile:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Randy, what did I do wrong in this thread? The man asked a question, I gave my *opinion*. You disagreed and took it down hill from there.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> No, you left out the *'I'* and ignored the gains others have gotten. This is the rub...
> 
> Sometimes our thoughts are not transmitted to the words we type. :msp_smile:



I understand what you're saying. However, everything I say is so scrutinized and critiqued, that I can't even voice my own opinion without someone crying fowl. So i have to preface EVERYTHING I say with a disclaimer that is my opinion and not voted on? Seriously!


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, what did I do wrong in this thread? The man asked a question, I gave my *opinion*. You disagreed and took it down hill from there.



I'll answer that. With your post you diminish the work done by others by only drawing from your experience and not taking into account the success of others.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

I was always told "Stand up for what you believe,even if you stand alone." And "You can agree with some of the people all of the time,and you can agree with all the people some of the time, but you NEVER agree with all the people all the time."


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I'll answer that. With your post you diminish the work done by others by only drawing from your experience and not taking into account the success of others.



Ok, I can understand that. Again, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. None of our saw have been compared to prove this either way. No one has shown a 550 that was stronger than a 346. I know how my 346 and 261 stack up. I know that my 550 was right on their heals. I know that must of the gains on my 550 were from the MM. Therefore my opinion, is that the 550 is not with a $250 port job.


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 10, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I was always told "Stand up for what you believe,even if you stand alone." And "You can agree with some of the people all of the time,and you can agree with all the people some of the time, but you NEVER agree with all the people all the time."



That's all well and good, but if you believe 2+2=5 eventually you need to re-evaluate your beliefs.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> That's all well and good, but if you believe 2+2=5 eventually you need to re-evaluate your beliefs.



I suppose so:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## nmurph (Jan 10, 2013)

This thread needs to be euthanized.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Ok, I can understand that. Again, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. None of our saw have been compared to prove this either way. No one has shown a 550 that was stronger than a 346. I know how my 346 and 261 stack up. I know that my 550 was right on their heals. I know that must of the gains on my 550 were from the MM. Therefore my opinion, is that the 550 is not with a $250 port job.



Re-read this Brad...
It should say "My 550 port job is not worth $250.00"
"YET"

So get to work...


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I'll answer that. With your post you diminish the work done by others by only drawing from your experience and not taking into account the success of others.


 I don't think Brad was knowingly trying to diminish the work done by others.I have know Brad a few years now and have had work done by him and know he does have his opinion on things.I know every time I have called him on the phone he always has the time to answer all my questions and help me with anything.I think Brad is a very upstanding guy that does very good work.I think sometimes the words you type don't express what you really mean and have in your head.I don't have the gift of gab so it happens to me a lot and I probably should not post at all but I don't give a rats behind what others think:hmm3grin2orange:I think over the years Brad has taken a lot of crap and has handled it very well.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

I have to go and get some more opcorn:


OH; and posting old post from someone showing how wrong they are can get you in trouble with the mod's. Like Si Robertson would say _*"That's a fact"*_


_JMO_


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## Trx250r180 (Jan 10, 2013)

whats the best 75cc saw :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> I have to go and get some more opcorn:
> 
> 
> OH; and posting old post from someone showing how wrong they are can get you in trouble with the mod's. Like Si Robertson would say _*"That's a fact"*_
> ...



I welcome any and all moderation due to me.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

Does anyone know if part #537107801 clutch cover will fit my new NE346xp "top dog of the 50cc class":hmm3grin2orange: I am getting part #537107803 for the orange cover and part #537107804 for the silver cover.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> whats the best 75cc saw :hmm3grin2orange:



372xpw but feel free to disagree


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I welcome any and all moderation due to me.



So do I. :msp_thumbup:

Because I have no agenda. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

One last thing and I'm done here for awhile. 

I've yet to see a MS261 that beats a 346XP in timed cuts over the cant. 

Does that mean that saw ain't worth porting either? :msp_unsure:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> One last thing and I'm done here for awhile.
> 
> I've yet to see a MS261 that beats a 346XP in timed cuts over the cant.
> 
> Does that mean that saw ain't worth porting either? :msp_unsure:



id rather have a worksaw i can lean on then cuts fast cookies ........


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I
> I know you have sent a lot of work my way. I assumed you did that because you knew I would do the best work I could and that the customer would be happy with it. If you think I've changed my work habits then by all means please tell everyone to steer clear of me and my work. But if it's just that I hurt your ego........well then that would again show how self serving you can be.


I didn't mean to ignore this, Randy. Absolutely, I sent you the work because I knew you'd do a great job AND because I've considered you a great friend.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

She don't tell anyone but ...... (oh this is a quote from someone else)


_*"The *[email protected]*%# is one of the best saws on the market, period"*_


Here is someone else opinion (a member here) on another 50 cc class saw I blanked out the name of the saw to protect the innocent 



_*JMO*_


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I think over the years Brad has taken a lot of crap and has handled it very well.



And much of that, I've admittedly brought on myself.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> id rather have a worksaw i can lean on then cuts fast cookies ........




But warm cookies taste so good with a glass of milk :msp_wink:

_
JMO_


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> One last thing and I'm done here for awhile.
> 
> I've yet to see a MS261 that beats a 346XP in timed cuts over the cant.
> 
> Does that mean that saw ain't worth porting either? :msp_unsure:



It means it ain't worth owning UNLESS it's ported!!!

See? I knew I could get a Stihl bash in this thread...


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Re-read this Brad...
> It should say "My 550 port job is not worth $250.00"
> "YET"
> 
> So get to work...



I agree entirely. I've done the same thing with the 7900. I can get decent gains out of them, but not like others that I've seen. At some point, I started referring all of those inquiries to Eric. There's plenty of work to go around for ALL of us.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> One last thing and I'm done here for awhile.
> 
> I've yet to see a MS261 that beats a 346XP in timed cuts over the cant.
> 
> Does that mean that saw ain't worth porting either? :msp_unsure:



It was a *real* close toss up between mine. I simply prefer the 346, but that's just my opinion


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> It means it ain't worth owning UNLESS it's ported!!!
> 
> _*See? I knew I could get a Stihl bash in this thread*_...



I'm amazed it wasn't from someone else :taped:



_JMO_


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 10, 2013)

Well one things for certain, there aren't as many saws being ported right now with all of you Master Saw Builders on here B#### slapping each other, and I find that to be most egregious of all. 

Now get your asses back to work.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Well one things for certain, there aren't as many saws being ported right now with all of you Master Saw Builders on here B#### slapping each other, and I find that to be most egregious of all.
> 
> Now get your asses back to work.



You actually brought a grin to my face, lol


----------



## VTWoodchuck (Jan 10, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Well one things for certain, there aren't as many saws being ported right now with all of you Master Saw Builders on here B#### slapping each other, and I find that to be most egregious of all.
> 
> Now get your asses back to work.



Now THATS funny right there, I don't care who you are.

Randy, channel all your anger and frustion into porting my 261. I want that sucker to be mean!


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 10, 2013)

Hey Bradley.........don't think you've ever had a piece of this kind of Pie......You need to try some!!!!!!.......


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> You actually brought a grin to my face, lol



Yeah mine too. I've got saws to port.......I'll catch up with you later....and yeah I will still count you as a friend.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Hey Bradley.........don't think you've ever had a piece of this kind of Pie......You need to try some!!!!!!.......



Dennis, I've had more than my share, most of it self prepped


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah mine too. I've got saws to port.......I'll catch up with you later....and yeah I will still count you as a friend.



I might have gotten that 359 ported last night, had it not been for this thread:msp_scared:


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

Damn; I guess Ill go make my self some breakfast now :msp_wink:


_JMO_


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

When you mix extrovert, OCD, confidence, and passion...you're going to get my opinion, like it or not, lol. Because of that combination, I'm often viewed as arrogant. I certainly don't mean to be.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Damn; I guess Ill go make my self some breakfast now :msp_wink:
> 
> 
> _JMO_



Yeah i'm sick of popcorn now anyways.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> Yeah i'm sick of popcorn now anyways.




Yeah me too; I just went and warmed up some choc chip cookies (in the nuking machine) and had a tall glass of ice cold milk :msp_w00t:


_JMO_


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Well one things for certain, there aren't as many saws being ported right now with all of you Master Saw Builders on here B#### slapping each other, and I find that to be most egregious of all.
> 
> Now get your asses back to work.



I've been working, but not on a saw...

[video=youtube_share;ME8wqZMIMGQ]http://youtu.be/ME8wqZMIMGQ[/video]


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I've been working, but not on a saw...
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ME8wqZMIMGQ]http://youtu.be/ME8wqZMIMGQ[/video]



Interesting cylinder porting...


----------



## FATGUY (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I've been working, but not on a saw...
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ME8wqZMIMGQ]http://youtu.be/ME8wqZMIMGQ[/video]



irony: walking out of your shop into your office, just to watch somebody else machining. (your toys are way cooler though....)


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

FATGUY said:


> irony: walking out of your shop into your office, just to watch somebody else machining. (your toys are way cooler though....)



Wish I had your turning center..


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I've been working, but not on a saw...
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ME8wqZMIMGQ]http://youtu.be/ME8wqZMIMGQ[/video]




That's kinda the work I did for 20 plus years

CNC mills and lathe along with programming them 



_JMO_


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> When you mix extrovert, OCD, confidence, and passion...you're going to get my opinion, like it or not, lol. Because of that combination, I'm often viewed as arrogant. I certainly don't mean to be.




As Mastermind has pointed out!.......You need professional help!


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> As Mastermind has pointed out!.......You need professional help!



Speaking from experience, no doubt:jester:


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

Dr. Phil is the biggest hypocrate on TV, his marriage is rockier than the people he tries to help.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 10, 2013)

Yes!......Mastermind was speaking from experience........Hahahahahahahaha!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 10, 2013)

Wow all this reading to catch up on.  :hmm3grin2orange:

You guys know there is a 3 cube woods ported work saw build off going on in Va in March.

*Might be a good place to have your 550xp build off saws sent or taken to.* :msp_wink: Will be a real good operator there to run each saw I think.

There is also a 3 cube all out race saw build off going on at the same place. 

So whatever your flavor work saw or race you can have at it.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello, my name's Brad and I have CAD real bad. I'd blame it on my Dad, but that wouldn't be real RAD. They say I'm an arrogant prick, but I tell them where they can stick......it. I really want to be their friend, oh where do I begin?


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 10, 2013)

He's a lyrical miracle!


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Hello, my name's Brad and I have CAD real bad. I'd blame it on my Dad, but that wouldn't be real RAD. They say I'm an arrogant prick, but I tell them where they can stick......it. I really want to be their friend, oh where do I begin?




Have you been checked out lately for any "Dain Bramage"??????


----------



## PLAYINWOOD (Jan 10, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> whats the best 75cc saw :hmm3grin2orange:



372, soon to be the 572 or whatever they badge it as


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Have you been checked out lately for any "Dain Bramage"??????



Yes. They said it's terminal and un operable


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> When you mix extrovert, OCD, confidence, and passion...you're going to get my opinion, like it or not, lol. Because of that combination, I'm often viewed as arrogant. I certainly don't mean to be.



B-Rad,
You left out the part about you being one of the first guys to step up, and help out someone in need. A trait you, and our dear friend Randy share.

I know for a fact that you aren't the arrogant dude you play here on the inter webs, and I also know that it is partly due to communicating in written form is not everyones strong suit. The subtleties and nuances are often lost on these types of forums, not to mention an in person conversation can convey so much more. Kind of like the expression "a picture is worth a thousand words", written conversations are sorely lacking in this aspect.

JMHO


----------



## Termite (Jan 10, 2013)

Well,I am starting to feel better.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm almost up to getting out the Foredom tonight!


----------



## rullywowr (Jan 10, 2013)

:msp_wub:
opcorn:


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Jan 10, 2013)

I read page 1, and page 20. Did I miss anything? If so, could someone summarize the 18 pages in between (APA format please).


----------



## F.W.P.T (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I'm almost up to getting out the Foredom tonight!





Slacker!!! What ya waitin fer??? If I had a Foredom, I'd be grindin anything I could get my hands on!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

I have moved on and found my orange clutch cover for my NE346xp non CAT and located a carb.Will a carb off a 359 work on my 346?The only numbers I could get from the guy that were on the carb are 175-145.


----------



## DSS (Jan 10, 2013)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I read page 1, and page 20. Did I miss anything? If so, could someone summarize the 18 pages in between (APA format please).



Absolutely nothing you haven't read before, if you been here more than a week. 

Be the same thing next week, just a different saw/porter/cryfest/lovefest. You know.


----------



## dozerdan (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Will a carb off a 359 work on my 346?The only numbers I could get from the guy that were on the carb are 175-145.



Yes that will work fine, its a direct bolt on.

Later
Dan


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 10, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> Yes that will work fine, its a direct bolt on.
> 
> Later
> Dan



Mount flange is a bit different but it will bolt right on and is a fantastic swap. Might i suggest the 359 boot is bigger if you want more airflow.

350 boot top 359 bottom


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

The entire 357/359 intake tract is the way to go. You want a Walbro carb if you can get one.


----------



## mt.stalker (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> The entire 357/359 intake tract is the way to go. You want a Walbro carb if you can get one.



Does this swap work well with the 5cc smaller OE , or is it "too much" carb for the little guy ?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

mt.stalker said:


> Does this swap work well with the 5cc smaller OE , or is it "too much" carb for the little guy ?



It works great on both.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 10, 2013)

F.W.P.T said:


> Slacker!!! What ya waitin fer??? If I had a Foredom, *I'd be grindin anything I could get my hands on!*



Hey mister, this ain't the place fer that kinda stuff. Now you go take your dirty talk elsewhere.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> Yes that will work fine, its a direct bolt on.
> 
> Later
> Dan



Thanks,but before I buy does everyone or most agree the 357/359 walbro carb is the way to go on a ported 346xp?


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I'm almost up to getting out the Foredom tonight!



I've had mine out the last couple evenings....


----------



## logging22 (Jan 10, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> I've had mine out the last couple evenings....



Show off.


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

mt.stalker said:


> Does this swap work well with the 5cc smaller OE , or is it "too much" carb for the little guy ?



I'm running the 357 carb, boot and flange on my OE. Like Brad said, Works great!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> I'm running the 357 carb, boot and flange on my OE. Like Brad said, Works great!


Sounds good.I will have to give Scott(tree monkey) another call.Even if the gains are small it will be cool to have that setup.Now I will have to sell a new carb,coil and clutch cover for an NE346xp non CAT.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> I've had mine out the last couple evenings....



You need to get that squish band cut and dam,get that cylinder cleaned up:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 10, 2013)

logging22 said:


> Show off.



Pfffttt. Whatever!  

I try to make em pretty, to bad they don't always run as good as they look lol.


----------



## logging22 (Jan 10, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> Pfffttt. Whatever!
> 
> I try to make em pretty, to bad they don't always run as good as they look lol.



You still got the 395? That thing was crazy!


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 10, 2013)

logging22 said:


> You still got the 395? That thing was crazy!



Yep...I'll probably always have that ole boat anchor..... :msp_wub:


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

Does anyone know the Walbro HDA number for the carb I need.Are they the same for the 359 and 357xp?


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Does anyone know the Walbro HDA number for the carb I need.Are they the same for the 359 and 357xp?



YEP!!!! the number is...........2156!!! get a fast saw WoodyMan!!


----------



## nmurph (Jan 10, 2013)

199...you can not find them new. You have to find someone who has swapped them out for the updated Zama C3 EL42.


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Does anyone know the Walbro HDA number for the carb I need.Are they the same for the 359 and 357xp?



HDA-199 is for unheated EPA versions - and yes, it is the same for both saws. HDA-198, -191 and -190 are the similar carbs for other versions, of which -191 is for the heated EPA (US) saws.


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 10, 2013)

Homelite410 said:


> Mount flange is a bit different but it will bolt right on and is a fantastic swap. Might i suggest the 359 boot is bigger if you want more airflow.
> 
> 350 boot top 359 bottom



The opening in the intake booth need to at least equal the venturi of the carb.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 10, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> YEP!!!! the number is...........2156!!! get a fast saw WoodyMan!!



It better be a fast one... Cause it's gotta get by the CS56 first!!!!
Another victim for Levi??? Tell scott make er go woodyman!!! You don't wanna get whipped by a 13 year old!!!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> YEP!!!! the number is...........2156!!! get a fast saw WoodyMan!!



Didn't you beat your 2156 with my old 359 awhile back
Anyway the number 2156 if its still a live number has its days numbered,maybe


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> It better be a fast one... Cause it's gotta get by the CS56 first!!!!
> Another victim for Levi??? Tell scott make er go woodyman!!! You don't wanna get whipped by a 13 year old!!!



Scott will be doing the carb alone on my Ne346xp non CAT if he accepts to.My 2002 359 is else wheres right now soon to return


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Scott will be doing the carb alone on my Ne346xp non CAT if he accepts to.My 2002 359 is else wheres right now soon to return



My 357/358/359 runs awsome.....still dont know what to call it other than a ec hybrid....


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

04ultra said:


> My 357/358/359 runs awsome.....still dont know what to call it other than a ec hybrid....



As long as its all orange we'll just it "good"


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Scott will be doing the carb alone on my Ne346xp non CAT if he accepts to.My 2002 359 is else wheres right now soon to return



I think someone posted earlier that it would've been done last night if this thread didn't get sideway


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 10, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> As long as its all orange we'll just it "good"



Well still gots me a zebra........it runs good too...


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 10, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> _*I think someone posted earlier that it would've been done last night if this thread didn't get sideway*_




Upside down and sideways :jester:

But it made a good read and made us have a few snacks like opcorn: and apple pie with ice cream :msp_w00t:



_JMO_


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Upside down and sideways :jester:
> 
> But it made a good read and made us have a few snacks like opcorn: and apple pie with ice cream :msp_w00t:
> 
> ...



Yes it was a good read and i ran out of popcorn, i had ice cream but i didn't have any pie so i heated up a brownie and put ice cream and hot fudge on that instead.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

04ultra said:


> My 357/358/359 runs awsome.....still dont know what to call it other than a ec hybrid....



Must be a 359 with a 357 top end.Everyone knows a 357/2156 will beat a 359/2159 but I don't care if I have the slower 359.Or do I.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Must be a 359 with a 357 top end.Everyone knows a 357/2156 will beat a 359/2159 but I don't care if I have the slower 359.Or do I.



But a 56cc John Deere is just sexy... 
And you can't time sexy...!!!


----------



## nmurph (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Must be a 359 with a 357 top end.Everyone knows a 357/2156 will beat a 359/2159 but I don't care if I have the slower 359.Or do I.



Probably the other way around--bigger cylinder on the cc with stuffers.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

nmurph said:


> Probably the other way around--bigger cylinder on the cc with stuffers.



Might be but the 359 doesn't make the power of a ported 357.Maybe someone should ask 04ultra if he has a bigger one with a stiffie?


----------



## nmurph (Jan 10, 2013)

The larger displacement and removeable transfer covers make the 359 the cylinder to port.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

nmurph said:


> The larger displacement and removeable transfer covers make the 359 the cylinder to port.


I hope my 359 with no stiffies runs good.I talked to a couple builders that said they could get me more power out of my 359 by putting a 357 top end on it but being a low use one I passed.I never asked about a 357 bottom and 359 top if thats what you were taking about.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 10, 2013)

Fastest 60cc saw I ever built was a 359. I just finished another one tonight. It'll hold >13K in the wood with a 9-pin .325 rim. That was the only B&C/sprocket combo I had on hand, lol. They make a fine runner for sure!


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Didn't you beat your 2156 with my old 359 awhile back
> Anyway the number 2156 if its still a live number has its days numbered,maybe





woodyman said:


> Might be but the 359 doesn't make the power of a ported 357.Maybe someone should ask 04ultra if he has a bigger one with a stiffie?



Sounds like your 359 had a better operator......:msp_w00t:


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> When you mix extrovert, OCD, confidence, and passion...you're going to get my opinion, like it or not, lol. Because of that combination, I'm often viewed as arrogant. I certainly don't mean to be.





You left out the most important part Brad.
You didn't mention that tiny little chink in your armour of self esteem that demands you back yourself into a corner and defend your position to the death.
It doesn't ALWAYS have to be a bloodbath. How many times have I told you to state your opinion, state that it IS your opinion and move on???

When the wolfpack sees you backed into a corner they WILL do what wolves do and pile on from every angle. The more you fight them off, the more the smell of blood gets in the air and it draws even the cowardly wolves out of their nooks and crannies. In your rush to reload your weapon to defend yourself, you throw bullets everywhere for your adversaries to pick up and shoot back at you!
I know that eventually you will learn when to just shut down your computer and go for a walk.....................................but it sure as hell hasn't happened yet!!!
I say this in the most loving "Uncle Mike" way that I can.
Damn Boy!..........Learn when to shut up!



Mike


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Fastest 60cc saw I ever built was a 359. I just finished another one tonight. It'll hold >13K in the wood with a 9-pin .325 rim. That was the only B&C/sprocket combo I had on hand, lol. They make a fine runner for sure!


Thats good to hear.I can't wait to get mine back and run it.The neighbor 1/4 down stopped by today and said I could cut 6 big red oaks next to the road and the 359 is going to be my main tool.I do have to leave him one in a pile not split


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> Sounds like your 359 had a better operator......:msp_w00t:



At the time yes,but things change.I hope.


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

Most impressive ported 60cc I've run was a 359 Stumpy did last Spring. :msp_w00t:

My ported 357 wasn't close...


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> Most impressive ported 60cc I've run was a 359 Stumpy did last Spring. :msp_w00t:
> 
> My ported 357 wasn't close...



That was a dandy wasn't it...


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> That was a dandy wasn't it...



It sure was! 

I think it surprised Stumpy more than anybody. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Thats good to hear.I can't wait to get mine back and run it.The neighbor 1/4 down stopped by today and said I could cut 6 big red oaks next to the road and the 359 is going to be my main tool.I do have to leave him one in a pile not split



If I were looking to run a modern 60cc saw it would be a 359. I ran a few EHP 359's and they were strong, as was the saw Brad had.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 10, 2013)

sunfish said:


> Most impressive ported 60cc I've run was a 359 Stumpy did last Spring. :msp_w00t:
> 
> My ported 357 wasn't close...


More good news.Sorry about your 357.Can't wait to get my 359 back.


----------



## sunfish (Jan 10, 2013)

woodyman said:


> More good news.Sorry about your 357.Can't wait to get my 359 back.



No need to feel sorry for the 357, I love that saw!!! 

I just did a little grinding on it myself. It's mild, but runs great. One day it might get some more work. :msp_wink:


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 11, 2013)

Ok boys.... Lets see if this will start a fight.... What is the BEST combo for these saws, 2159, 2156, 359, 357?? Is it 359 cyl with 357 stuffers, no replacement for displacement! Is it just 357 all the way? What would get you the most BANG for your time given you would port these saws as well?


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 11, 2013)

359 w/395 kit....


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

Homelite410 said:


> Ok boys.... Lets see if this will start a fight.... What is the BEST combo for these saws, 2159, 2156, 359, 357?? Is it 359 cyl with 357 stuffers, no replacement for displacement! Is it just 357 all the way? What would get you the most BANG for your time given you would port these saws as well?


I would like to know to.I was told by a couple builders that porting a 357/2156 would gain more than porting a 2159/359 because of there cylinder design.And porting a 359/2159 with a 357/2156 top end would gain more than just porting a stock 2159/359.


----------



## sachsmo (Jan 11, 2013)

You can't find an easier jug to port than a 359.

Opening up the muffler and a good tune helps more than the porting.

Just remember;

"you can always take more out, easier than putting it back"


----------



## wyk (Jan 11, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> You can't find an easier jug to port than a 359.
> 
> Opening up the muffler and a good tune helps more than the porting.
> 
> ...



So...one could say it's not really worth porting...?  JMO!


----------



## trophyhunter (Jan 11, 2013)

reindeer said:


> So...one could say it's not really worth porting...?  JMO!



Wound, meet salt shaker.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> You can't find an easier jug to port than a 359.
> 
> Opening up the muffler and a good tune helps more than the porting.
> 
> ...


Got to disagree.Opening up the muffler gives you a gain of 10% to 15% depending on who you talk to.With a muffler mod and porting you get much more.On my last 359 I ran it with a muffler mod for awhile then had Brad port it over three years ago and the difference was night and day.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> You can't find an easier jug to port than a 359.
> 
> Opening up the muffler and a good tune helps more than the porting.
> 
> ...





reindeer said:


> So...one could say it's not really worth porting...?  JMO!



I watching you guys. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## mt.stalker (Jan 11, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I watching you guys. :msp_sneaky:



If you don't get that Echo twin done twin done soon , we're sending you to detention .


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 11, 2013)

04ultra said:


> 359 w/395 kit....



I have a saw like that.:msp_sneaky:


----------



## sachsmo (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> If you were going to get a 50cc saw old or new ported which one would you choose?



Just saying,

Because it's ported, does not mean you gain every time.

You can go backwards. A general statement like. "which is best to get ported" is assuming you get gains?

I would rather hear which is best stock eh?

Rekon one mans port could be another's Starboard.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 11, 2013)

Homelite410 said:


> I have a saw like that.:msp_sneaky:



Is squeaky still running???!!!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> Just saying,
> 
> Because it's ported, does not mean you gain every time.
> 
> ...



True,if ported you do not gain every time if someone on crack does the porting.One mans port could be another mans right side of a ship?Which is best stock is OK but I don't run stock saws.And if by"you" you mean you so be it.Maybe I should have said "is the 346 the best 50cc saw to get ported" which would be less general.Are you saying if I send a saw to one of the sponsor porters on this site for porting the gains from there porting will be a toss up?I rekon I don't know what you are saying.You can go backwards but I think if I sent my 359 to like Randy it would be full steam ahead.Oh yeah,where is Brad we need 20 more pages of reading.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

Wheres your rebuttal sachsmo?I have to run into town now to get me some go juice for me and my pickumup truckShould be on in the same mind set as you when I get back


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 11, 2013)

What happened to this thread being about 50cc saws? :msp_confused:


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 11, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> What happened to this thread being about 50cc saws? :msp_confused:



Now it's ~50 sumpin...


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> What happened to this thread being about 50cc saws? :msp_confused:


Very few threads here that don't go off topic.


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Very few threads here that don't go off topic.



Right, and it is limited how long 346xp vs. 550xp can be discussed in a meaningful way.......:msp_biggrin:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> me some go juice, Should be on in the same mind set as you when I get back



I'm thinking the same thing. hmm should I go with strawberry, cherry or straight shine this weekend.  

Then we could really liven up this thread too. :yoyo:


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 11, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> I'm thinking the same thing. hmm should I go with strawberry, cherry or straight shine this weekend.
> 
> Then we could really liven up this thread too. :yoyo:



Straight shine K...
It'll grow hair on yer chest...
And sometimes your tongue...


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 11, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Straight shine K...
> It'll grow hair on yer chest...
> And sometimes your tongue...



They are all the same proof. Only real strawberry's or cherry's added to the straight to flavor a little. Dropped into the jar. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 11, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Is squeaky still running???!!!



Big HELL YES on that on Hedge! Stupid clutch drum bearing is the culprit and swapped it out, new one squeaks too...... I guess i must have diturbed something whilst i was on the grinder with that crank.:msp_confused:


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 11, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> What happened to this thread being about 50cc saws? :msp_confused:



My saw says 50 on the side.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 11, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> They are all the same proof. Only real strawberry's or cherry's added to the straight to flavor a little. Dropped into the jar. :msp_biggrin:



So now you have 10% maybe 15% strawberry or cherry Nitro!......:cool2:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 11, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> So now you have 10% maybe 15% strawberry or cherry Nitro!......:cool2:



Oh yeah  you must eat the fruit for the full effect.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 11, 2013)

I dont think I own a saw with 50 on the side :msp_scared:. Some day I will pick up a nice 50 special and put a 5000 top end on it just to make the so called 50 magnum. 

I think Steve freakingstang has a nice one already done up.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Right, and it is limited how long 346xp vs. 550xp can be discussed in a meaningful way.......:msp_biggrin:



Right,how about 550xp/346xp vs MS261?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Right,how about 550xp/346xp vs MS261?



Don't go there! It's a trap!!!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Don't go there! It's a trap!!!


Maybe for you


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Maybe for you



 BINGO.......


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

Hey 04ultra,can you show a pic of your favorite Husky?That pic cracks me up everytime


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Hey 04ultra,can you show a pic of your favorite Husky?That pic cracks me up everytime



Im on my phone....dont have on here...


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

Here's my favorite Husky.......

[video=youtube;nufhUGl710M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nufhUGl710M[/video]


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 11, 2013)

Why hasn't someone mentioned what an AWESOME little saw an Echo CS500 can be when properly ported???
I've ran a couple of them and they are DANGED impressive!
(Let's see if I can take a little of the heat off my buddy Brad tonight!LOL)


Mike


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> Why hasn't someone mentioned what an AWESOME little saw an Echo CS500 can be when properly ported???
> I've ran a couple of them and they are DANGED impressive!
> (Let's see if I can take a little of the heat off my buddy Brad tonight!LOL)
> 
> ...



They really are aren't they Mike? You should run one after we tweak it. :msp_sneaky:

I'll take some of Brad's heat too. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## porsche965 (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Andre pretty much nailed it. If you want max power, go with a 346 or 2153. There are only a few 2153s left out there if you're considering that route. My second choice, ported, would be the 261. It'll be right on the heals of the 346. If going with a 550, I would not port it. IMHO, it's not worth the investment. MM it and be done with it.



I have a Snellerized 261 (the first one Brad produced) and I'd like to see a 346XP hang with this saw. And it loves 3/8ths chain as well. Just saying he makes a killer 261 when he pulls out all the stops. This saw, since I've got another 12 tanks or so through it just gobbles wood and groans for more! Never seen a small saw with a bigger heart.


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 11, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> They really are aren't they Mike? You should run one after we tweak it. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> I'll take some of Brad's heat too. :msp_biggrin:




One.............or both of the ones I've handled had been through your shop!
I don't think that saw takes a back seat to any of the 50cc saws.
It may not beat a well ported 346/550/5100/261 but you will have to have a stopwatch to be sure!


Mike


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> One.............or both of the ones I've handled had been through your shop!
> I don't think that saw takes a back seat to any of the 50cc saws.
> It may not beat a well ported 346/550/5100/261 but you will have to have a stopwatch to be sure!
> 
> ...



I see. Do you have any rings or can you get your hands on some for that XXV? I've yet to stumble upon any.


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 11, 2013)

porsche965 said:


> I have a Snellerized 261 (the first one Brad produced) and I'd like to see a 346XP hang with this saw. And it loves 3/8ths chain as well. Just saying he makes a killer 261 when he pulls out all the stops. This saw, since I've got another 12 tanks or so through it just gobbles wood and groans for more! Never seen a small saw with a bigger heart.





That is a butt kickin' saw, but it goes a bit beyond a normal woods port!



Mike


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 11, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I see. Do you have any rings or can you get your hands on some for that XXV? I've yet to stumble upon any.






Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................maybe!

Let me look and see what I have.


Mike


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> That is a butt kickin' saw, but it goes a bit beyond a normal woods port!
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Every 261 I port gets everything that saw got, except for the carb replacement. The only reason I replaced it on that saw was because I messed up the original looking for gains with the saw.

Here's one I did more recently.
[video=youtube_share;yhrZd5urbI4]http://youtu.be/yhrZd5urbI4[/video]


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

I got pop corn,ice cream,pie,cheese and alot of go juice.I am ready for another round:taped:Its raining and 40 degrees now,tomorrow sounds like 12 degrees and wind.Got to get some more go juice.


----------



## stihl038x2 (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm a little late to the party but here I go.......... Partner 5000+ or cousin "Johnny" 490 :alien2:

Steve


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Every 261 I port gets everything that saw got, except for the carb replacement. The only reason I replaced it on that saw was because I messed up the original looking for gains with the saw.
> 
> Here's one I did more recently.
> [video=youtube_share;yhrZd5urbI4]http://youtu.be/yhrZd5urbI4[/video]



Nice build Brad.
How come when I watch your vid a thing pops up and says ALERT:"your arrest record is online"click to see?I have never been arrested that I know of:confused2:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Every 261 I port gets everything that saw got, except for the carb replacement. The only reason I replaced it on that saw was because I messed up the original looking for gains with the saw.



Sure, but if I had to guess that carb didn't slow the saw down any.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I got pop corn,ice cream,pie,cheese and alot of go juice.I am ready for another round:taped:Its raining and 40 degrees now,tomorrow sounds like 12 degrees and wind.Got to get some more go juice.



I'm bowing out this round! One stomach ulcer is enough:msp_scared:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Sure, but if I had to guess that carb didn't slow the saw down any.



In all fairness, it's no different than the carb swap we make on 346s.


----------



## fatboymoe (Jan 11, 2013)

I have one of the first or the Masterminded Echo CS 500p's. It is a very lightweight, good handling and runs really good after porting. I was going to mention it earlier, but it was more fun watching the peeing contests that this and other threads like it always produce. Brand wars are not my cup of tea. But, and I do mean but, they can be entertaining. 

Now if you want to start on brand loyalty war, lets talk NASCAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> In all fairness, it's no different than the carb swap we make on 346s.


 Close anyway.


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Every 261 I port gets everything that saw got, except for the carb replacement. The only reason I replaced it on that saw was because I messed up the original looking for gains with the saw.
> 
> Here's one I did more recently.
> [video=youtube_share;yhrZd5urbI4]http://youtu.be/yhrZd5urbI4[/video]





I didn't realize that you "un-strato'ed" them all.
That and the carb is what I meant.


Mike


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> I didn't realize that you "un-strato'ed" them all.
> That and the carb is what I meant.
> 
> 
> Mike



Yes. More work goes into a 261 than any other saw I port. They're a lot of work.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

fatboymoe said:


> I have one of the first or the Masterminded Echo CS 500p's. It is a very lightweight, good handling and runs really good after porting. I was going to mention it earlier, but it was more fun watching the peeing contests that this and other threads like it always produce. Brand wars are not my cup of tea. But, and I do mean but, they can be entertaining.
> 
> Now if you want to start on brand loyalty war, lets talk NASCAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!



Don't want to talk brand loyalty but drivers and driving.Like to get one of those NASCAR drivers up here and see if they could catch me on some hard packed snow roads going through some twisties over 60mph


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 11, 2013)

stihl038x2 said:


> I'm a little late to the party but here I go.......... Partner 5000+ or cousin "Johnny" 490 :alien2:
> 
> Steve



M.O.S. mentioned those 2 saws 20 pages ago it seems. 

Still to date one of the strongest torque wise in the cut using 3/8 chain I have ran was a 5000 with tiny oem carb.


----------



## 04ultra (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Don't want to talk brand loyalty but drivers and driving.Like to get one of those NASCAR drivers up here and see if they could catch me on some hard packed snow roads going through some twisties over 60mph



Smoke would kick ur ass!!!


----------



## woodyman (Jan 11, 2013)

04ultra said:


> Smoke would kick ur ass!!!


Bring um,I will take my chances.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Every 261 I port gets everything that saw got, except for the carb replacement. The only reason I replaced it on that saw was because I messed up the original looking for gains with the saw.
> 
> Here's one I did more recently.
> [video=youtube_share;yhrZd5urbI4]http://youtu.be/yhrZd5urbI4[/video]



Nice saw Brad.

Hey, do these fellas realize that Santa mows your lawn. They ought to be nicer to you before they end up on the naughty list.

Go ahead Brad, show 'em the video of your landscape engineer.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Yes. More work goes into a 261 than any other saw I port. They're a lot of work.



They do run good though! I've ran the one you done for Preston several times....


----------



## stihl038x2 (Jan 11, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> M.O.S. mentioned those 2 saws 20 pages ago it seems.
> 
> Still to date one of the strongest torque wise in the cut using 3/8 chain I have ran was a 5000 with tiny oem carb.



I figured someone other than JJohnson & me would like these old relics........ but I kinda like living in the past when it comes to some things :msp_scared:

Steve


----------



## DSS (Jan 11, 2013)

stihl038x2 said:


> I figured someone other than JJohnson & me would like these old relics........ but I kinda like living in the past when it comes to some things :msp_scared:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve




I love them. Got half a dozen kicking around. Hard to believe that is 30 year old technology.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 11, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I got pop corn,ice cream,pie,cheese and alot of go juice.I am ready for another round:taped:Its raining and 40 degrees now,tomorrow sounds like 12 degrees and wind.Got to get some more go juice.



I'm ready also it's in the upper 20's here

And I just got back from town with supplies for tonight's regular scheduled programming


----------



## nmurph (Jan 11, 2013)

What about a 325? I wonder how they port up?


----------



## andydodgegeek (Jan 11, 2013)

I just got done reading this entire thread. OUCH. I was eating popcorn and went to rub a tear out of my eye and got some salt and butter in it.


----------



## djj22t (Jan 11, 2013)

andydodgegeek said:


> I just got done reading this entire thread. OUCH. I was eating popcorn and went to rub a tear out of my eye and got some salt and butter in it.



That will teach you.


----------



## logging22 (Jan 11, 2013)

andydodgegeek said:


> I just got done reading this entire thread. OUCH. I was eating popcorn and went to rub a tear out of my eye and got some salt and butter in it.



Rub what out? A tear? Yeah, thats what i call it too.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Jacob J. (Jan 11, 2013)

nmurph said:


> What about a 325? I wonder how they port up?



I gots a Partner 500 I'll be working over soon, because of Chris's destructive influence.


----------



## andydodgegeek (Jan 11, 2013)

logging22 said:


> Rub what out? A tear? Yeah, thats what i call it too.:msp_biggrin:



Easy does it this is the chainsaw forum, not the other swap meat. Otherwise I would say something about rubbing out the butter...and salt.:taped:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Nice saw Brad.
> 
> Hey, do these fellas realize that Santa mows your lawn. They ought to be nicer to you before they end up on the naughty list.
> 
> Go ahead Brad, show 'em the video of your landscape engineer.



I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Santa Clause had a massive heart attack and dropped dead a little over a year ago. He actually was the Santa Claus in the Christmas parade here.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Santa Clause had a massive heart attack and dropped dead a little over a year ago. He actually was the Santa Claus in the Christmas parade here.



I hope you didn't get him all stressed out the way you done poor little old me.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I hope you didn't get him all stressed out the way you done poor little old me.



Lol. He had a history of heart trouble.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Lol. He had a history of heart trouble.



Just messing wit ya. 

What did you think of the hybrid video? We need a bigger chunk right?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Just messing wit ya.
> 
> What did you think of the hybrid video? We need a bigger chunk right?



Absolutely. I'm also assuming you have it tuned quite rich for break-in. Have you yet compared a ported 460 to a ported 461?


----------



## DSS (Jan 11, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I gots a Partner 500 I'll be working over soon, because of Chris's destructive influence.



You need a closed port jug to make a screamer out of that 500. I'd like to see how it turns out.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Absolutely. I'm also assuming you have it tuned quite rich for break-in. Have you yet compared a ported 460 to a ported 461?



It's tuned to 13,600ish

I still have Young's 461 here. I smell a race brewing.


----------



## Jacob J. (Jan 11, 2013)

DSS said:


> You need a closed port jug to make a screamer out of that 500. I'd like to see how it turns out.



I does have that. And thanks to Ed, I have the exterior pieces on the way...

Oh, and I meant _constructive_ influence (where's that puking emoticon?)


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 11, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It's tuned to 13,600ish
> 
> I still have Young's 461 here. I smell a race brewing.



I'd love to see the 461 against your 460 buildoff saw I think the 461 would have it's hands full. Then again, that monster torque of the 461 is a force to be reckoned with.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I'd love to see the 461 against your 460 buildoff saw I think the 461 would have it's hands full. Then again, that monster torque of the 461 is a force to be reckoned with.



Nmurph has that saw. I traded it to him for a 394xp to replace ptjeep's when the post office lost it. :bang:


----------



## nmurph (Jan 11, 2013)

It's a strong saw, and surprisingly, it's quieter than the 372 you build for me Brad.

I cut several very large pecans last weekend for my neighbor. I ran both for several hours. I let my 73YO neighbor run the 460 most of the afternoon, and all he could say was "that Stihl sure is a strong saw." It is a little stronger than the 372, but both handled a 24" bar with AUTHORITY.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 11, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Santa Clause had a massive heart attack and dropped dead a little over a year ago. He actually was the Santa Claus in the Christmas parade here.



Man I sure am sorry to hear that. You folks sure were lucky to have such a Santa in your midst. Do you think you could post up the video for ol' timey sake?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

nmurph said:


> It's a strong saw, and surprisingly, it's quieter than the 372 you build for me Brad.
> 
> I cut several very large pecans last weekend for my neighbor. I ran both for several hours. I let my 73YO neighbor run the 460 most of the afternoon, and all he could say was "that Stihl sure is a strong saw." It is a little stronger than the 372, but both handled a 24" bar with AUTHORITY.



Advance the timing a few degrees and add a Walbro carb instead of the Zama and the saw will wake up even more. It's not as strong as the one's I build now.


----------



## nmurph (Jan 11, 2013)

BTW, I did not fell this tree. It was already on the ground when I showed up. It was also the smallest of the ones we took out. It was hollow to just below where I'm at in this pic, and was solid the rest of the way. The hollow had a tarrie mess that was the remnants of a honey bee hive that was abandoned summer before last. My lab thought it was a very tasty treat!!

Randy, what carb do you recommend for this swap?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 11, 2013)

nmurph said:


> BTW, I did not fell this tree. It was already on the ground when I showed up. It was also the smallest of the ones we took out. It was hollow to just below where I'm at in this pic, and was solid the rest of the way. The hollow had a tarrie mess that was the remnants of a honey bee hive that was abandoned summer before last. My lab thought it was a very tasty treat!!
> 
> Randy, what carb do you recommend for this swap?



Walbro from a 460. It has a Zama now and Wiggs tells me it would be much stronger with a Walbro.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 11, 2013)

Speaking of carbs which 359 carb do you swap out on a 346 i see about 5 of them HDA 198?


----------



## sachsmo (Jan 12, 2013)

reindeer said:


> So...one could say it's not really worth porting...?  JMO!



No!

Just saying the word "ported" is used too generically on this board.

Like everything there is good, better, and even bad "port" jobs.

Kind of like paint jobs,

"looky here" repainted my car, used the best paint made. Cuzin' Bubba laid it on real nice, too bad he didn't have a less nappy roller.


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 12, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> Speaking of carbs which 359 carb do you swap out on a 346 i see about 5 of them HDA 198?



I have been running 199B.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 12, 2013)

I was talking to a friend today and i mentioned swapping the carbs on my 346 and he said he did some work on his MS362 and he said he removed the base gasket but didn't check the squish before or after he's just gonna run it:msp_w00t: and thinks it will be ok, what are the chances of it gernading on him??


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Nmurph has that saw. I traded it to him for a 394xp to replace ptjeep's when the post office lost it. :bang:



Does that mean I can have my 394 back? :jester:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 12, 2013)

Follow up to earlier post.

I even dropped a hint in the glass for you of the first qt cracked for the football party today with friends and family.


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Jan 12, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Follow up to earlier post.
> 
> I even dropped a hint in the glass for you of the first qt cracked for the football party today with friends and family.




Looks tasty, Jim!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 12, 2013)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Looks tasty, Jim!



Yeah ole Jim is getting a head start before all the folks show up. :msp_wink::msp_biggrin:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 12, 2013)

Hint to qt #2 in glass. All I can say is the fruit has a extra kick when ate :msp_biggrin:. :msp_w00t:


----------



## wyk (Jan 12, 2013)

nmurph said:


> It's a strong saw, and surprisingly, it's quieter than the 372 you build for me Brad.
> 
> I cut several very large pecans last weekend for my neighbor. I ran both for several hours. I let my 73YO neighbor run the 460 most of the afternoon, and all he could say was "that Stihl sure is a strong saw." It is a little stronger than the 372, but both handled a 24" bar with AUTHORITY.









One of the things I miss most in Ireland is no Pecan Pie...

However, I did have an Abrakebabra Doner Kebab today served to me by a lovely Irish lass:


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 12, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I was talking to a friend today and i mentioned swapping the carbs on my 346 and he said he did some work on his MS362 and he said he removed the base gasket but didn't check the squish before or after he's just gonna run it:msp_w00t: and thinks it will be ok, what are the chances of it gernading on him??



Highly likely. The one that I built had less than .04 squish stock.


----------



## nmurph (Jan 12, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> Highly likely. The one that I built had less than .04 squish stock.



I don't remember the numbers, but I do remember having to use .015 gasket paper to give it enough squish after I removed the stock gasket.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 12, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Does that mean I can have my 394 back? :jester:



Oh hell no. I took that saw and three others and mixed and matched till I made me some money on em.


----------



## angelo c (Jan 12, 2013)

DSS said:


> Well lookie lookie. Someone may have made a mistake and owned up to it.
> 
> 
> Amazing. We could use more guys like that here.
> ...






I made a mistake 193 posts ago.....i started reading this train wreck....


----------



## woodyman (Jan 12, 2013)

angelo c said:


> I made a mistake 193 posts ago.....i started reading this train wreck....


You must have a life:smile2:
I got a new NE346xp non CAT
I did learn a few things in this thread and they will all cost me

Pics tomorrow.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 12, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> Highly likely. The one that I built had less than .04 squish stock.





nmurph said:


> I don't remember the numbers, but I do remember having to use .015 gasket paper to give it enough squish after I removed the stock gasket.



I went back and checked my notes. The stock squish was .024 and the base gasket was .017". Losing the base gasket on that build would have left a squish of .007". I don't think that's enough..


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> I went back and checked my notes. The stock squish was .024 and the base gasket was .017". Losing the base gasket on that build would have left a squish of .007". I don't think that's enough..



Depends on the builder. :bang:


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 13, 2013)

angelo c said:


> I made a mistake 193 posts ago.....i started reading this train wreck....



Bad mistake, I basically stopped before that point....:help:


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Depends on the builder. :bang:



I believe .007 is too little anyway, for something that is supposed to last?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Jan 13, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I believe .007 is too little anyway, for something that will last?



Worked for james bond for a few decades now :msp_wink:


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I believe .007 is too little anyway, for something that is supposed to last?



.025 -.035 for me.


----------



## SawTroll (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> .025 -.035 for me.



That sounds safe, but isn't it a bit more than really needed?


----------



## A.E. Metal Werx (Jan 13, 2013)

Strongest 60cc saw I've ran.. Have to be the ol squeaky 350  Warning: That 350 tends to ruin people... Just saying.


----------



## sachsmo (Jan 13, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> That sounds safe, but isn't it a bit more than really needed?



Guess it depends on how tight the slug fits the jug.

Piston skirts do wear, add in the rocking and the expansion, guess better safe than sorry.

I have an old 6800 that was set at .016, runs great, but seems to run hot?


----------



## wyk (Jan 13, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> That sounds safe, but isn't it a bit more than really needed?



Not if the saw is running 180PSI...


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

reindeer said:


> Not if the saw is running 180PSI...



Or 200psi.

I've been adding some squish lately to see how the engine behaves with a high compression ratio and a more open squish area. Let's just say I like this concept. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Or 200psi.
> 
> I've been adding some squish lately to see how the engine behaves with a high compression ratio and a more open squish area. Let's just say I like this concept. :msp_sneaky:



Especially on larger saws... ~.025 is tight enough...
But I set a little DCS520i at .019 and it's happy there.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Or 200psi.
> 
> I've been adding some squish lately to see how the engine behaves with a high compression ratio and a more open squish area. Let's just say I like this concept. :msp_sneaky:


The shape of the combustion chamber is very important and higher psi = higher temps.I don't want a cookie cutter I want a high torque high speed woods port that is dependable.I got wood to cut,what am I doing here:confused2:


----------



## steve316 (Jan 13, 2013)

If you have .025 squish @ zero rpm;what is it @ 14,000 rpm? I believe you will get better flame travel & more complete combustion by opening up the squish. As long as you maintain the same compression ; if the saw dosen't run better ( which it will ) it will get better fuel economy. I am basing this on four stroke race engines. Steve


----------



## woodyman (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Or 200psi.
> 
> I've been adding some squish lately to see how the engine behaves with a high compression ratio and a more open squish area. Let's just say I like this concept. :msp_sneaky:



Is this with a flat top piston or pop up?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Is this with a flat top piston or pop up?



Flat top.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Flat top.




Done quite a bit of cuttin yesterday and then split several hours with my x27. Must say the 2153 you built me is tied with the 288 as the most impressive saw I have ever run. The 2153 makes me feel like a Jedi with a light saber.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Done quite a bit of cuttin yesterday and then split several hours with my x27. Must say the 2153 you built me is tied with the 288 as the most impressive saw I have ever run. The 2153 makes me feel like a Jedi with a light saber.



Is the 288 stronger than the 2171?


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Is the 288 stronger than the 2171?




2171 might be a little fat- not quite tuned in right. I think the 288 is stronger than any saw I have.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> 2171 might be a little fat- not quite tuned in right. I think the 288 is stronger than any saw I have.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

I have no qualms running .016" on a 346 with 180-200 PSI turning 15,500 RPMs. I've done a fair amount of work with mine. It's been apart recently, and I see no signs of heat or detonation. I run Premium unleaded and 32:1 full synthetic oil.


----------



## wyk (Jan 13, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> Guess it depends on how tight the slug fits the jug.



Reminds me of a German gal I recently dated...


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I have no qualms running .016" on a 346 with 180-200 PSI turning 15,500 RPMs. I've done a fair amount of work with mine. It's been apart recently, and I see no signs of heat or detonation. I run Premium unleaded and 32:1 full synthetic oil.



But why? Your not gaining much if any running is so tight for a .000005678 % gain. The gain doesn't outweigh the risk,,,, JUST *MY* OPINION OF COURSE .


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> But why? Your not gaining much if any running is so tight for a .000005678 % gain. The gain doesn't outweigh the risk,,,, JUST *MY* OPINION OF COURSE .



I don't consider it overly tight for a 50cc saw, and do not consider it risky. If it were so risky, I wouldn't see 660s come from the factory with only .017" squish. Now that I have a lathe, I'll go closer to .020". But, I see no reason to go any looser than that. Why go to the trouble to build more compression, and then waste it with overly loose squish? Perhaps there's science as to why. 

*Disclaimer: This is only my opinion, and has not been voted on by the community as fact. Additionally, I reserve the right to change my opinion, should additional information come to light.*


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I don't consider it overly tight for a 50cc saw, and do not consider it risky. If it were so risky, I wouldn't see 660s come from the factory with only .017" squish. Now that I have a lathe, I'll go closer to .020". But, I see no reason to go any looser than that. Why go to the trouble to build more compression, and then waste it with overly loose squish? Perhaps there's science as to why.
> 
> *Disclaimer: This is only my opinion, and has not been voted on by the community as fact. Additionally, I reserve the right to change my opinion, should additional information come to light.*



LOL. Just wonder was all . I'd never run a 660 that tight for sure :msp_scared:.....but I'm not saying it wont work.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 13, 2013)

LOL!! Did your attorney advise you to lay the disclaimer in your posts?!? 

To little squish does have downsides. One being excessive squish velocity. This can cause scrubbing of the boundary layer on the piston, which can lead to excessive heat in the piston crown. Trapped end gas is also higher with a tighter squish. Goldilocks was on to something...


----------



## Jacob J. (Jan 13, 2013)

I think you can go tighter on a smaller saw for a variety of reasons- 
The cylinder and piston don't have as much material in them overall and 
thus expand less under heat and pressure; and there's less room in the 
smaller jug for the fired charge to travel (or spread out.) 

I haven't run a 60cc+ saw any tighter than .024" and I've had real good 
luck with that. I have run several 45-50cc saws right at .020" and that's 
worked fine. 

Same thing goes for finger ports. I gave an 024S finger ports one time and
that was the strongest sub 50cc saw I've ever built. But I haven't had much
luck with finger ports in anything over 55cc.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 13, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> LOL!! Did your attorney advise you to lay the disclaimer in your posts?!?
> 
> To little squish does have downsides. One being excessive squish velocity. This can cause scrubbing of the boundary layer on the piston, which can lead to excessive heat in the piston crown. Trapped end gas is also higher with a tighter squish. Goldilocks was on to something...



I've ran squish a little tight before..... After I seen the piston crown on the exhaust side I opened it back up. Sometimes I just have to learn for myself. I think I have a picture somewhere, But it looked like the exhaust side of the piston crown had been lightly sand blasted. I run a bit on the loose side now :msp_sneaky:.

Just built a 372 with .028 squish and 195psi.....


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I don't consider it overly tight for a 50cc saw, and do not consider it risky. If it were so risky, I wouldn't see 660s come from the factory with only .017" squish. Now that I have a lathe, I'll go closer to .020". But, I see no reason to go any looser than that. Why go to the trouble to build more compression, and then waste it with overly loose squish? Perhaps there's science as to why.
> 
> *Disclaimer: This is only my opinion, and has not been voted on by the community as fact. Additionally, I reserve the right to change my opinion, should additional information come to light.*



I love this post Brad.....I mean freaking love it. 

I've been talking with some two stroke gurus that play with bikes......those guys have me trying several new ideas. 

I totally agree that at .016 no damage will occur on a 50cc saw. I'm of the opinion *(just mine at this point)* that gains can be had by opening the squish. 

I recently built a 461 with over .030 that was my best yet.


----------



## tlandrum (Jan 13, 2013)

i run a minimum of .025 squish and have for a long time in my work saws. i run around .030 squish on my race saws.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I don't consider it overly tight for a 50cc saw, and do not consider it risky. If it were so risky, I wouldn't see 660s come from the factory with only .017" squish. Now that I have a lathe, I'll go closer to .020". But, I see no reason to go any looser than that. Why go to the trouble to build more compression, and then waste it with overly loose squish? Perhaps there's science as to why.
> 
> *Disclaimer: This is only my opinion, and has not been voted on by the community as fact. Additionally, I reserve the right to change my opinion, should additional information come to light.*



Brad- I like that disclaimer. I think it should be in your sig IMHO.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

Here's some excellent reading I found. It doesn't tell you what the squish should be, but helps you understand the theory of how it works. It's not just about clearance, compression, and detonation. 

The second paragraph adresses compression. It addresses my concerns with too much compression actually hurting performance.

_Squish clearance is another important factor in head design. This is the clearance between the piston and the squish band of the head when the piston is at TDC. It has a strong influence on turbulence in the combustion chamber, which directly affects how fast the mixture burns. The old way of setting squish was to just make sure the piston didn't hit the head when running, but this is not the way it should be done. Like most engineering criteria, there is a correct range that needs to be targeted.* Too much clearance, and the burning is slow and power is low; too little, and burning is too fast and puts extreme loads on the motor*, similar to what detonation does. A correct value of maximum squish velocity, or MSV, will ensure good power output within safe limits. I use a computer program to calculate these values and ensure they are in the correct range. The factors that influence the MSV are RPMs, stroke, rod length, squish band width, squish clearance, and compression ratios. Only when all these factors are considered and adjusted can a head be considered well designed. 

Compression is also important to consider when designing ports. Years ago, porting was targeted just at timing numbers for a desired RPM; if you wanted 10,000rpm, you needed 190 degrees of exhaust duration. Then a more accurate method became known, using port time-area values. These calculations suggested a target area range for ports to feed the motor at the desired RPMs, and was a big improvement. Further developments, and what is used now, uses the time-area values, but targets desired power output levels based on BMEP, or brake mean effective pressure. What this means, is that *the motor needs more port if the compression is higher, even if the RPM's are not changed. So if you raise the compression on an engine and don't consider the port design, you may actually lose RPM capability.* Conversely, if you have an engine with a lot of exhaust, it may respond well to a higher compression...as long as all the rest of the variables remain safe. _


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Here's some excellent reading I found. It doesn't tell you what the squish should be, but helps you understand the theory of how it works. It's not just about clearance, compression, and detonation.
> 
> The second paragraph adresses compression. It addresses my concerns with too much compression actually hurting performance.
> 
> ...



Going by the quoted exhaust timing numbers you are looking at info related to a piped engine.....


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Going by the quoted exhaust timing numbers you are looking at info related to a piped engine.....



Good point Randy. It's really hard to find good 2-stroke documentation where a pipe is not involved.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Good point Randy. It's really hard to find good 2-stroke documentation where a pipe is not involved.



Exactly......and that makes what we are doing a bit tougher to figure out. I'm just going off of trial and error on most things. Some of the things I have found that work great were by missing my mark and thinking "let's see how this works".


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

Tech articles

Squish action


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

I've heard it stated that minimum squish is .0125 x stroke. I believe this would be a mechanical limit, as it does not take any of the other factors into account. However, I've seen this rule significantly broken on a very good running saw. It was not a saw that I built. I've got my personal minimum limits, but they're basically just what I'm confortable with from experience, rather than science.


----------



## angelo c (Jan 13, 2013)

Ok guys, because I was keeping notes and fell asleep in the back of the class: 

recap

Thread starts out with a simple question, gets messy with a fight between Randy and Brad, lots of good info passed along between some good guys, lots of us knuckleheads get lost in the shuffle, I nod off and now Randy and Brad have made up?? Can some one save me some time and point me to the ..."kiss and make up session" .....darn it's hard to keep up with out a smart phone that is smarter then the operator.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

Trust me. There was no kissing involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

Pretty good stuff.

In his example engine squish was at .047 


When I opened the squish on the 461 to .030 and still had 200psi that was the smoothest running one and the most powerful I had done yet. 

There is still so much to learn......I feel like I've just barely scratched the surface.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

angelo c said:


> Ok guys, because I was keeping notes and fell asleep in the back of the class:
> 
> recap
> 
> Thread starts out with a simple question, gets messy with a fight between Randy and Brad, lots of good info passed along between some good guys, lots of us knuckleheads get lost in the shuffle, I nod off and now Randy and Brad have made up?? Can some one save me some time and point me to the ..."kiss and make up session" .....darn it's hard to keep up with out a smart phone that is smarter then the operator.



Brad and I have known each other for several years. We don't always agree....and at times he frustrates me. Don't you have disagreements with your friends?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Pretty good stuff.
> 
> In his example engine squish was at .047
> 
> ...



Perhaps the higher the compression, the lower the MSV needs to be??? Any evidence that too much compression hurts RPMs? My 390XP has nearly 200 PSI and makes great RPMs. The exhaust is a little higher than I normally go though.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 13, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Well one things for certain, there aren't as many saws being ported right now with all of you Master Saw Builders on here B#### slapping each other, and I find that to be most egregious of all.
> 
> Now get your asses back to work.



The above post was made on page 18 of this thread, and everyone had a good laugh, and the hand holding/ Cumbaya singing ensued.



angelo c said:


> Ok guys, because I was keeping notes and fell asleep in the back of the class:
> 
> recap
> 
> Thread starts out with a simple question, gets messy with a fight between Randy and Brad, lots of good info passed along between some good guys, lots of us knuckleheads get lost in the shuffle, I nod off and now Randy and Brad have made up?? Can some one save me some time and point me to the ..."kiss and make up session" .....darn it's hard to keep up with out a smart phone that is smarter then the operator.



So to answer your question, the joy returned to Brad and Randy's friendship about 13 pages ago.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Perhaps the higher the compression, the lower the MSV needs to be??? Any evidence that too much compression hurts RPMs? My 390XP has nearly 200 PSI and makes great RPMs. The exhaust is a little higher than I normally go though.



I've built engines with as much as 240psi without seeing any issues with a lack of RPM. In these saw engines I think we will see damage to components before we reach a point of diminishing returns.

Rolltide's 395XP is blowing 235psi and the only issue we've seen is a bit of run on when it's shut off after a long cut in wood over 36". Octane boost cured that though. I don't see the starter lasting as long but the saw is a freaking beast.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> The above post was made on page 18 of this thread, and everyone had a good laugh, and the hand holding/ Cumbaya singing ensued.
> 
> 
> 
> So to answer your question, the joy returned to Brad and Randy's friendship about 13 pages ago.



"I have a potty mouth" in Utah with a sharp stick to the nether regions.....repeat as needed to dislodge you head from your ass. 

Your dear friend, Randy


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've built engines with as much as 240psi without seeing any issues with a lack of RPM. In these saw engines I think we will see damage to components before we reach a point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Rolltide's 395XP is blowing 235psi and *the only issue we've seen is a bit of run on when it's shut off* after a long cut in wood over 36". Octane boost cured that though. I don't see the starter lasting as long but the saw is a freaking beast.



I here that's also common in blue S10 pick ups from a certain county in Tennessee.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> "I have a potty mouth" in Utah with a sharp stick to the nether regions.....repeat as need to dislodge you head from your ass.
> 
> Your dear friend, Randy



Can the said "sharp stick" be "aftermarket", or should I use OEM sticks only?


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've built engines with as much as 240psi without seeing any issues with a lack of RPM. In these saw engines I think we will see damage to components before we reach a point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Rolltide's 395XP is blowing 235psi and the only issue we've seen is a bit of run on when it's shut off after a long cut in wood over 36". Octane boost cured that though. I don't see the starter lasting as long but the saw is a freaking beast.



Randy, do you think the lower compression saws (180ish) run more free or loose than the one's pumping 220ish?

It may just be in my head....I've only done a couple over 200psi, but they seemed more tighter the higher the compression gets.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

For what it is worth- I am proud of you both Randy and Brad. This thing got a little nasty but if you read between the lines in each of your post- respect for eachother was evident. (And it made for some much needed drama- been kinda boring lately) We don't have to agree to be friends. Hell, Kari is my best friend and we NEVER agree. I look up to you both for your knowledge and contributions to this site.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 13, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Can the said "sharp stick" be "aftermarket", or should I use OEM sticks only?



Brad will do the comparo and report back.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> Brad will do the comparo and report back.




Pls break the first rule of AS- "requiring pics- or it didnt happen". They will not be needed.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

Jon1212 said:


> Can the said "sharp stick" be "aftermarket", or should I use OEM sticks only?



Either or......it should only need to be sharp. 



komatsuvarna said:


> Randy, do you think the lower compression saws (180ish) run more free or loose than the one's pumping 220ish?
> 
> It may just be in my head....I've only done a couple over 200psi, but they seemed more tighter the higher the compression gets.



I have a theory.......on a cant saw I don't think as much compression as a work saw is really wanted. 

At least on gas. 

Compression makes torque. 



Tzed250 said:


> Brad will do the comparo and report back.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 13, 2013)

I have a theory.......on a cant saw I don't think as much compression as a work saw is really wanted. 

At least on gas. 

Compression makes torque. 





I'll go along with that!


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

I shoot for no more than 200psi on a 70cc and larger work saw. Some guys ask for more. I do it. 

On a smaller bore I shoot for 225psi.


----------



## angelo c (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Brad and I have known each other for several years. We don't always agree....and at times he frustrates me. Don't you have disagreements with your friends?



Sure thing Randy, it's ok to argue, specially with "type A" personalities we all have here. You know I'm being selfish when I say, we are all better off if you "guys play nice in the sand box".


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 13, 2013)

angelo c said:


> Sure thing Randy, it's ok to argue, specially with "type A" personalities we all have here. You know I'm being selfish when I say, we are all better off if you "guys play nice in the sand box".




Well we certainly want to keep a bit of spark in them!
Without it, rivalry dies and along with it.....innovation. And we all know who benefits from that innovation, right????

The AS community.


Mike


----------



## woodyman (Jan 13, 2013)

Some builders say don't go over 180psi on a woods ported saw that will be used every day.Do you have any kind of warranty on your ported saws Randy and if so where would it stop as far as how hot someone would want there saw ported?I have talked to some builders that do either a woods port or cookie cutter and won't guarantee the cookie cutter and won't do a saw in between.


----------



## 8433jeff (Jan 13, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> For what it is worth- I am proud of you both Randy and Brad. This thing got a little nasty but if you read between the lines in each of your post- respect for eachother was evident. (And it made for some much needed drama- been kinda boring lately) We don't have to agree to be friends. Hell, Kari is my best friend and we NEVER agree. I look up to you both for your knowledge and contributions to this site.



There have no halter top photos of said Kari. As you said, its been boring lately.

I look forward to your contribution to the site.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

8433jeff said:


> There have no halter top photos of said Kari. As you said, its been boring lately.
> 
> I look forward to your contribution to the site.




How did you know I met her while she was working at Hooter's? Actually, it was a club at first- then I ran into her again while out with some friends. Not long after, she found herself not needing to work anymore. Been that way for 5 years. 

On a more serious note- I would never degrade or disrespect my wife and the mother of my children with posting inappropriate pics of her and I certainly wouldn't ask that of someone I dont know.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Here are some pics of the mother of my children.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

few more


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

few more.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jan 13, 2013)

Well, thats the best 3 post in the whole thread!:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

komatsuvarna said:


> Well, thats the best 3 post in the whole thread!:msp_thumbsup:



pretty proud of her. "as easy as she is on the eyes.... she's that much easier on the heart". She is a blessing to which I can pen no words.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

Yeah but who's that ugly dude in the pics? :msp_sneaky:


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah but who's that ugly dude in the pics? :msp_sneaky:



I know right? He's your fwend. I hate being in pics- but it's required if I dont want to get in trouble.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 13, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> I know right? He's your fwend.



Damn sure is.


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 13, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> How did you know I met her while she was working at Hooter's? Actually, it was a club at first- then I ran into her again while out with some friends. Not long after, she found herself not needing to work anymore. Been that way for 5 years.
> 
> On a more serious note- I would never degrade or disrespect my wife and the mother of my children with posting inappropriate pics of her and I certainly wouldn't ask that of someone I dont know.



I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but judging by those pics I would guess you looked pretty weird in those little orange shorts.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 13, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but judging by those pics I would guess you looked pretty weird in those little orange shorts.





 I dont even wear shorts- think the monkey has skinny legs? think again. at least Randys short (under 6'2). I'm 6'5''1/2 and just north of 200lbs.


----------



## wigglesworth (Jan 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Walbro from a 460. It has a Zama now and Wiggs tells me it would be much stronger with a Walbro.



Thats been my experience....


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Thats been my experience....



I've learned a lot in our brainstorming sessions............


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've learned a lot in our brainstorming sessions............



I'd like to be a fly on the wall at one of your brainstorming sessions, I can only imagine the ideas you come up with.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I'd like to be a fly on the wall at one of your brainstorming sessions, I can only imagine the ideas you come up with.



Sorry, no semi-tards allowed. :msp_thumbdn:


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Sorry, no semi-tards allowed. :msp_thumbdn:



Agreed.. Only full blown tards allowed...
:msp_tongue:


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Sorry, no semi-tards allowed. :msp_thumbdn:



I'm disappointed that you would exclude someone because of their affliction, especially when you're running around on those spindly little emu legs.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I disappointed that you would exclude someone because of their affliction, especially when you're running around on those spindly little emu legs.



True story......."I have a potty mouth". :msp_tongue:


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 14, 2013)

Randy.... mailed something to you this morning regarding the 562xpw purchase. Also let me know when you come up with a lead on a new Husq 359 for my work truck.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Randy.... mailed something to you this morning regarding the 562xpw purchase. Also let me know when you come up with a lead on a new Husq 359 for my work truck.



:msp_thumbup:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 14, 2013)

So Woody, you got that thing ported yet? What's the hold up?


----------



## moody (Jan 14, 2013)

Any ideas on port work on an 028? I'm porting one this weekend. I've not ported any Stihl's yet.


----------



## wendell (Jan 14, 2013)

Good lord, what a waste of an hour of my life but it is good to know nothing has changed in the Chainsaw Forum.

And just so you know, I was just trying to preserve more of the cant for the next competitors. I'm a thoughtful guy like that.


----------



## DSS (Jan 14, 2013)

wendell said:


> Good lord, what a waste of an hour of my life but it is good to know nothing has changed in the Chainsaw Forum.
> 
> 
> 
> And just so you know, I was just trying to preserve more of the cant for the next competitors. I'm a thoughtful guy like that.




Hi Steve. You are quite thoughtful. 

Everything is fine here unless one of the Randys tries to sell or modify anything. Then it starts.


----------



## B Harrison (Jan 14, 2013)

PLAYINWOOD said:


> 346ne....



+1

Its bad unported so


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

B Harrison said:


> +1
> 
> Its bad unported so



And easy to over port and go backward on.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 14, 2013)

moody said:


> Any ideas on port work on an 028? I'm porting one this weekend. I've not ported any Stihl's yet.



You are a glutton for punishment...
Hat's off to ya...
:msp_tongue:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 14, 2013)

I seen a smoking fast 028 from Va at a gtg once.  Made me step back and put a better chain on.


----------



## Termite (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> True story......."I have a potty mouth". :msp_tongue:



"I have a potty mouth"....???? Good For You??????????????


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

Termite said:


> "I have a potty mouth"....???? Good For You??????????????



That's right. How's that 576 running?


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 14, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> I seen a smoking fast 028 from Va at a gtg once.  Made me step back and put a better chain on.



I got one of the faster 028's around, and it still gets it's ass handed to it by the 346's...
I only keep it around cause of sentimental reasons... That, and I'm a tard...
:amazed:


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> I got one of the faster 028's around, and it still gets it's ass handed to it by the 346's...
> I only keep it around cause of sentimental reasons... That, and *I'm a tard*...
> :amazed:



I was gonna mention that. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

Woods ported 028

[video=youtube;V0_gFkSzdl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_gFkSzdl4[/video]


----------



## Tzed250 (Jan 14, 2013)

I like me some 028AVSEQ...


----------



## DSS (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Woods ported 028
> 
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;V0_gFkSzdl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_gFkSzdl4[/video]




Allegedly. 

Nice legs.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Woods ported 028
> 
> [video=youtube;V0_gFkSzdl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_gFkSzdl4[/video]



Nice!!!
Runs almost as good as 550xp...:msp_sneaky:


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

DSS said:


> Allegedly.
> 
> Nice legs.



Thems the onlyist legs I gots. 

"I have a potty mouth" :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## woodyman (Jan 14, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> So Woody, you got that thing ported yet? What's the hold up?



Still waiting on parts.I now have 2 2002 359 carbs.One is on its way here and one is on pictured saw that should return soon.I am also working on a 254 Olympic.
















The owner didn't cut a lot of wood with it sense he bought it new in 2002:hmm3grin2orange:The carb was already sent to Scott before its trip.Didn't cut much with the oly either.Thats the original 18" on the 359 which I traded to my brother for a 20".


----------



## Termite (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> That's right. How's that 576 running?



Well it runs pretty good but it is very hard to bog down, I push on it for all I am worth. Also I think it turns too many RPM's, the wood doesn't seem to slow it down enough. I wish it would use more fuel, I get real tired between fuel fill ups. Part of the problem might be the compression, 195 PSI, if you had kept the compression about 50 PSI lower like when you got the saw at the WK. GTG. I wouldn't have all these problems now. 
I guess you accomplished your porting goals so "I have a potty mouth". Good for you.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 14, 2013)

What would happen if I put the 359 carb on my NE346xp lost the base gasket and opened up the muffler with no porting?And an unlimited coil of course.And open up the exhaust port a bit and the intake port.And maybe a little work on the upper transfers and clean up the tunnels a bit.I don't own a lathe


----------



## woodyman (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Woods ported 028
> 
> [video=youtube;V0_gFkSzdl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_gFkSzdl4[/video]



I saw one that tree monkey did up that impressed the hell out of me 2 winters ago in Grantsberg,WI.I think Bob was running it.Bob don't have a PC,he cuts wood.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

Termite said:


> Well it runs pretty good but it is very hard to bog down, I push on it for all I am worth. Also I think it turns too many RPM's, the wood doesn't seem to slow it down enough. I wish it would use more fuel, I get real tired between fuel fill ups. Part of the problem might be the compression, 195 PSI, if you had kept the compression about 50 PSI lower like when you got the saw at the WK. GTG. I wouldn't have all these problems now.
> I guess you accomplished your porting goals so "I have a potty mouth". Good for you.



I need to visit us in the off topic forum. You'd fit right in "I have a potty mouth". :msp_sneaky:


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 14, 2013)

woodyman said:


> What would happen if I put the 359 carb on my NE346xp lost the base gasket and opened up the muffler with no porting?



You'd have a significant gain over stock.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 14, 2013)

woodyman said:


> I saw one that tree monkey did up that impressed the hell out of me 2 winters ago in Grantsberg,WI.I think Bob was running it.Bob don't have a PC,he cuts wood.



This one Craig? ) 044? vs TM 7900 


[URL=http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/scottk66/grantsberg%20race%202012/20111225121900.mp4]

[/URL]


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> This one Craig? TM 280 vs TM 7900
> 
> [URL=http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/scottk66/grantsberg%20race%202012/20111225121900.mp4]
> 
> [/URL]



That one looks like an 044


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> That one looks like an 044



Could be for all I know.

Yeah I think your right, I'll keep looking.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 14, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> Could be for all I know.
> 
> Yeah I think your right, I'll keep looking.


You been hitting the go juice again
I think it was at T-Dawgs but could be wrong but I thought it was Bob for sure.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 14, 2013)

woodyman said:


> You been hitting the go juice again
> I think it was at T-Dawgs but could be wrong but I thought it was Bob for sure.



SHHhhh. 

This one?? Against the snellered 2156?

[URL=http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/scottk66/grantsberg%20race%202012/20111225120156.mp4]

[/URL]


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 14, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> You'd have a significant gain over stock.



More than 40%?


----------



## woodyman (Jan 14, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> SHHhhh.
> 
> This one?? Against the snellered 2156?
> 
> ...


I can't tell,your vid is all broken up on this end.Was it fast?Was Wendell there?He had to be there,look at the size of a couple of those cookies on the ground.I know he has a wide up cut.


----------



## woodyman (Jan 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> More than 40%?


I wouldn't do the work for anything less.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> SHHhhh.
> 
> This one?? Against the snellered 2156?
> 
> ...



That's an 028 smoking a 2156.


----------



## DSS (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> That's an 028 smoking a 2156.




Allegedly. 

I have no agenda.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 14, 2013)

DSS said:


> Allegedly.
> 
> I have no agenda.



Me either, but I got a 12vr of grain belt!!


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Woods ported 028
> 
> [video=youtube;V0_gFkSzdl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_gFkSzdl4[/video]



I was hoping when the conversation went to 028's you'd put up this video.........that saw is so much fun to cut with. You are a true, and dear friend.



DSS said:


> Allegedly.
> 
> Nice legs.



You hush up you bovine skank, you ought not pick on my friend, or I'll let that bull back in your pasture. Besides it's the aspect ratio that's off in the video, Randy's legs look much smaller in person.



Mastermind said:


> Thems the onlyist legs I gots.
> 
> "I have a potty mouth" :msp_thumbsup:



Randy I know you like a good bargain, but do you still think it was wise to get your legs at a "two for the size of one" sale?


----------



## moody (Jan 14, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> You are a glutton for punishment...
> Hat's off to ya...
> :msp_tongue:



Well this is true but I've been a firm believer in the fact if you lower your standards you up your average. So recently I've lowered my standards for my saw purchases. And since doing this I've acquired some neat saws. Plus the 028 being slow didn't bother me I've been around a few and they are very reliable saws. My 61 does my heavy lifting for now. Question is will a 029/290 piston work? It's the same bore I would just like to put a flat top in the saw.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 14, 2013)

moody said:


> Well this is true but I've been a firm believer in the fact if you lower your standards you up your average. So recently I've lowered my standards for my saw purchases. And since doing this I've acquired some neat saws. Plus the 028 being slow didn't bother me I've been around a few and they are very reliable saws. My 61 does my heavy lifting for now. Question is will a 029/290 piston work? It's the same bore I would just like to put a flat top in the saw.



Find a super top end for your 028. I use the dome piston and cut the squish on a shape that follows the shape of the piston. It doesn't take much work to be well over 200psi on a 028S.


----------



## moody (Jan 15, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Find a super top end for your 028. I use the dome piston and cut the squish on a shape that follows the shape of the piston. It doesn't take much work to be well over 200psi on a 028S.



Ok cool. So what's the real difference between the 2 jugs? Both are 46mm bore so I'm guessing it has something to do with port location and shape?


----------



## woodyman (Jan 15, 2013)

moody said:


> Ok cool. So what's the real difference between the 2 jugs? Both are 46mm bore so I'm guessing it has something to do with port location and shape?



For size between the 028 and 028 super?I am guessing the super is bigger than 54cc.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 15, 2013)

moody said:


> Ok cool. So what's the real difference between the 2 jugs? Both are 46mm bore so I'm guessing it has something to do with port location and shape?



The super is 46mm the 028wb is 44.....the older av model is even smaller I think.


----------



## moody (Jan 15, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The super is 46mm the 028wb is 44.....the older av model is even smaller I think.



Cool I'll see what I can find in the parts depot. (Local saw dealer junk)


----------



## bcorradi (Jan 15, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The super is 46mm the 028wb is 44.....the older av model is even smaller I think.



ya your right the old avs are 42mm.


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 15, 2013)

Another thing that differs on the 028 Super is that it has a popup piston from the factory.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 15, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Another thing that differs on the 028 Super is that it has a popup piston from the factory.



My 028 AV is just a 44mm "I wish I was a Super" WoodBoss...
I could get a 46 jug and slug and make it one, but then it wouldn't be original... 
That saw was purchased new in 1984 when I was 12... I was responsible for keeping my family warm, since there was no one else to do it. 
So I guess we share a history... 
Even if it IS a Stihl....:msp_rolleyes:


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## Mastermind (Jan 15, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> My 028 AV is just a 44mm "I wish I was a Super" WoodBoss...
> I could get a 46 jug and slug and make it one, but then it wouldn't be original...
> That saw was purchased new in 1984 when I was 12... I was responsible for keeping my family warm, since there was no one else to do it.
> So I guess we share a history...
> Even if it IS a Stihl....:msp_rolleyes:



Before I found AS and learned better. The only saw I owned was an 028WB. It heated my house for many years.


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## thomas1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Before I found AS and learned better. The only saw I owned was an 028WB. It heated my house for many years.



You should have tried using it to cut wood, a woodstove puts off a lot more heat than a saw. Quieter, too.


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## DSS (Jan 15, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Before I found AS and learned better. The only saw I owned was an 028WB. It heated my house for many years.



You had a monster saw. All I had for years was an 023.


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## woodyman (Jan 15, 2013)

My BIL uses an 028 for his outside wood boiler to this day,his 031 died.Don't know why but I have offered to sell him at least 6 saws from 50cc to 70cc with half ported and he keeps saying noHe only has maybe a half cord sitting in front of the boiler now.He did get the 028 from his dad.Acres does not list an 028 Super so I thought it was larger.


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## Mastermind (Jan 15, 2013)

DSS said:


> You had a monster saw. All I had for years was an 023.



Yeah you really did need a saw. Up there in Canakistan an 023 is like a mini mac in TN. :msp_sad:


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## tlandrum (Jan 15, 2013)

i thought that they exterminated all the mini macs that were in tn so that they couldnt infect other saws. otstir:


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## rms61moparman (Jan 15, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> My 028 AV is just a 44mm "I wish I was a Super" WoodBoss...
> I could get a 46 jug and slug and make it one, but then it wouldn't be original...
> That saw was purchased new in 1984 when I was 12... I was responsible for keeping my family warm, since there was no one else to do it.
> So I guess we share a history...
> Even if it IS a Stihl....:msp_rolleyes:






YOU WERE 12 IN 1984?????




DAMN KIDS!


Mike


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## woodyman (Jan 15, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> i thought that they exterminated all the mini macs that were in tn so that they couldnt infect other saws. otstir:



From ported 346's to mini macs
I did terminate a mini mac with some help a couple years ago and still have it hanging in a tree out back for the buzzards.





Got all your crap sorted out yet Terry?


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## tlandrum (Jan 15, 2013)

woodyman said:


> Got all your crap sorted out yet Terry?



im almost moved in,i just need a couple of strong backs and weak minds to help move the lathe up to the new shop.ive got most of my hand tools tools moved. i just need to get rest the big stuff moved.


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## joatmon (Jan 15, 2013)

Tzed250 said:


> He's a lyrical miracle!



I came from Ohio with a grinder in my hand,
I only wanted to port every saw in the land,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

I’m head of the Ohio Chainsaw Mafia,
Gimme a rah, rah, rah, sis boom bah,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

Take your cylinder and I’ll grind away,
It’s only a hobby, but ya gots to pay,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

I used to like Stihl, they are the best,
Compare to others? There’s no contest,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

Now I like the Huskys, they’re supreme,
Just my opinion, know what I mean?

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

Now look at that Dolmar, it’s awfully fast,
I only modded two, my first and last,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

I tried to tackle the five, five, oh,
I ground away but it wouldn’t go,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.

Listen to me! Port the three forty six,
It’s OCD, I’m not really a prick,

Initials are BS, name is Brad,
I’ve got OCD really bad.


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## woodyman (Jan 15, 2013)

Yes I did get the NE346xp non CAT.





Its so pretty I am just going to put it on the shelf,don't want to get it dirty.


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## blsnelling (Jan 15, 2013)

joatmon said:


> I came from Ohio with a grinder in my hand,
> I only wanted to port every saw in the land,
> ....



Goot to see you around


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## Hedgerow (Jan 15, 2013)

joatmon said:


> I came from Ohio with a grinder in my hand,
> I only wanted to port every saw in the land,
> 
> Initials are BS, name is Brad,
> ...



I had trouble with the pentameter of this one...ps:

I think I failed to read it as it was meant to be read...


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## wyk (Jan 16, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've built engines with as much as 240psi without seeing any issues with a lack of RPM. In these saw engines I think we will see damage to components before we reach a point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Rolltide's 395XP is blowing 235psi and the only issue we've seen is a bit of run on when it's shut off after a long cut in wood over 36". Octane boost cured that though. I don't see the starter lasting as long but the saw is a freaking beast.



I have a 444SE running a Squish that is .016, pushing 230psi with a tiny pop up. I am using 94 octane fuel. The detonation before I took a bit off the pop-up that had her at 240psi + cold(before the rings seated) hugely affected the RPM's, as it would act exactly as though it hit a limiter. At 230psi throttle response is instant and torque is amazing for a 44cc saw. I opened up the exhaust as much as I dared and she will rev until she explodes(ask me how I know). I actually have it running a bit rich in my vids, not at all set up for cookies. The carb is also opened up as much as I dared and the exhaust and intake numbers would confuse the builders here .
Well, it would if they thought it was a woods build...


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## 04ultra (Dec 14, 2013)

Im getting me a few new saws.......will they be red and black......orange ...creamsickle........or german red and black......hmmmmmmm


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## 04ultra (Dec 14, 2013)

Wow the site really changed...


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (Dec 14, 2013)

04ultra said:


> Wow the site really changed...



Yes it has and I have to say I really like it.


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## 04ultra (Dec 14, 2013)

MS460WOODCHUCK said:


> Yes it has and I have to say I really like it.


Not sure if I like it....


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (Dec 14, 2013)

04ultra said:


> Not sure if I like it....



I thought the same at first but after a week or so I like it a lot better than what they had going before.


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## 04ultra (Dec 14, 2013)

Ok....guess I'll have to come on here more often......


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## sachsmo (Dec 14, 2013)

Wass up dawg?


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## 04ultra (Dec 15, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> Wass up dawg?


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## 04ultra (Dec 15, 2013)

Sent a 346 down yander to Tzed for a port job and it really ran nice......but......had a major problem....a customer wanted to try it out and now its gone.....I wasnt selling it and he wouldnt take no for answer....Better luck on the next one......


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## nk14zp (Dec 16, 2013)

254XP.


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## zogger (Dec 16, 2013)

DSS said:


> You had a monster saw. All I had for years was an 023.




Bloated muscle saw luxury! I had a lil red homie top handle...


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## bcaarms (Dec 17, 2013)

2253 its Red and Black and the 346 is Orange Most of the time I like Red and Black but Orange has its moments. The one with the sharp chain wins every time. WIth a "16 bar either one will make you smile.


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## Fire8 (Dec 17, 2013)

550xp


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

woodyman said:


> If you were going to get a 50cc saw old or new ported which one would you choose?



The MS261C-M ic a fine saw. It's clearly the best choice stock or modified.


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## sunfish (Dec 26, 2014)

Overclock said:


> The MC261C-M ic a fine saw. It's clearly the best choice stock or modified.


Truly awesome it is, but not always the best choice...

Hi Bushape...


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Truly awesome it is, but not always the best choice....










Best choice ......for severing wood fibers.........is what I meant to say?


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## sunfish (Dec 26, 2014)

Good fun diggin up these old threads, eh?


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

2013 was just last year.


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## angelo c (Dec 26, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Truly awesome it is, but not always the best choice...
> 
> Hi Bushape...



He's been a good ape lately...maybe the Holiday Spirits ?


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

What's a Bushape?


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 26, 2014)

Overclock said:


> What's a Bushape?


Well in my opinion Brushape had a lot of good info that could have been shared with this forum ,as he seemed to know a lot about saws and making stuff ,but the haters ran him off


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## angelo c (Dec 26, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Well in my opinion Brushape had a lot of good info that could have been shared with this forum ,as he seemed to know a lot about saws and making stuff ,but the haters ran him off



Agree but sometimes the "delivery" method is more critical then the "information".


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Well in my opinion Brushape had a lot of good info that could have been shared with this forum ,as he seemed to know a lot about saws and making stuff ,but the haters ran him off



In a Brush Ape's world, the flow of information and the camaraderie would be emphasized. Some of us are a bit avuncular by nature. It comes from being raised among loggers.



angelo c said:


> Agree but sometimes the "delivery" method is more critical then the "information".



You need a thick skin on these interwebs. They used to say in the bush, "Be careful who you piss off."


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## angelo c (Dec 26, 2014)

Overclock said:


> In a Brush Ape's world, the flow of information and the camaraderie would be emphasized. Some of us are a bit avuncular by nature. It comes from being raised among loggers.
> 
> 
> 
> You need a thick skin on these interwebs.



especially at the fingertips !!!


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 26, 2014)

Since 99% of the people on this forum are not loggers ,i bet they have not a clue what a brush ape is ,here it is ,

BRUSH APE
A logger, usually a chokerman. You'd better be smiling when you call a logger this name, or be a very good friend.


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## Hedgerow (Dec 26, 2014)

Overclock said:


> What's a Bushape?


Sorta like a yeti..
With a propensity to like slow chainsaws..


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 26, 2014)

Hedgerow said:


> Sorta like a yeti..
> With a propensity to like slow chainsaws..


I see what you did there ...........

Stihl Hater


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## Mike from Maine (Dec 26, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Well in my opinion Brushape had a lot of good info that could have been shared with this forum ,as he seemed to know a lot about saws and making stuff ,but the haters ran him off


I hate it when mods ban the best members.


I think they were picked on in high school.


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

Hedgerow said:


> Sorta like a yeti....



That would be a "Skunk Ape," which occupy a wilderness on the Western end of this State. Also they have been spotted near Hendersonville.


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## Hedgerow (Dec 26, 2014)

Overclock said:


> That would be a "Skunk Ape," which occupy a wilderness on the Western end of this State. Also they have been spotted near Hendersonville.


No.. A skunk ape is like the fellow that I was standing next to the other day.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 26, 2014)

I thought a yeti was a bike ,little did i know .......


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

I thought they were on Star Wars fighting against Dark Vater.


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## nmurph (Dec 26, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> I thought a yeti was a bike ,little did i know .......



Nope, it a yuppie cooler.


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## Overclock (Dec 26, 2014)

Hedgerow said:


> No.. A skunk ape is like the fellow that I was standing next to the other day at the Ozzy Osbourne concert.



Fixed


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## Franny K (Dec 26, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Well in my opinion Brushape had a lot of good info that could have been shared with this forum ,as he seemed to know a lot about saws and making stuff ,but the haters ran him off


Didn't he start off making threads with the purpose of informing folks something but a couple of pages later it became obvious he was wrong in the first place. Example kerf being different for different gague drive links. After the comment do as I say or pay me to fix it and maybe I won't want to I disregarded him. Post stuff about removing floor tiles with a plastic feling wedge in the chainsaw section, I wouldn't do something like that.


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## Overclock (Dec 27, 2014)

Franny K said:


> Didn't he start off making...........




He was making a microcontroller board-based automatic chain sharpener with linear actuators and a servo unit. And he was sharing his build with this community.


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## Hedgerow (Dec 27, 2014)

Then it all went horribly off track...

On another note, I used an old school 026 all day today...
It's a contender for weight and generally good performance, but lacks in the power department compared to the 346xp..
But I do like it.. 
Very slim and nimble..


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## hseII (Dec 27, 2014)

Hedgerow said:


> Then it all went horribly off track...
> 
> On another note, I used an old school 026 all day today...
> It's a contender for weight and generally good performance, but lacks in the power department compared to the 346xp..
> ...


Does yours have this yello sticka?







Yup!!


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## Hedgerow (Dec 27, 2014)

Nope...
But it has 200 lbs of comp...

The 028 super I built for the Kentucky build off can still kick it's ass...
Just not a 346 is all...
I ain't getting rid of it just yet...


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## sunfish (Dec 27, 2014)

Hedgerow said:


> Then it all went horribly off track...
> 
> On another note, I used an old school 026 all day today...
> It's a contender for weight and generally good performance, but lacks in the power department compared to the 346xp..
> ...


A person can get a whole lot of wood cut with a strong 50cc saw, eh Matt...


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## Hedgerow (Dec 27, 2014)

sunfish said:


> A person can get a whole lot of wood cut with a strong 50cc saw, eh Matt...


Yeah...
But it moves along faster with the 562...
And stuff...
Anything over 6" is better served with the light saber...


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## sunfish (Dec 28, 2014)

Hedgerow said:


> Yeah...
> But it moves along faster with the 562...
> And stuff...
> Anything over 6" is better served with the light saber...


I'm with ya on that, cept anything over 12" here. It's a ported 346 thang n stuff.


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## Fire8 (Dec 28, 2014)

Will the 550 pull a 20" and will the oil pump supply the oil


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## old-cat (Dec 28, 2014)

sunfish said:


> I'm with ya on that, cept anything over 12" here. It's a ported 346 thang n stuff.


My 353/346 wears a 20" bar and that's what it cuts. The next size up gets cut with my MS461 and 24"


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## sunfish (Dec 28, 2014)

Fire8 said:


> Will the 550 pull a 20" and will the oil pump supply the oil


Yes.


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## sunfish (Dec 28, 2014)

old-cat said:


> My 353/346 wears a 20" bar and that's what it cuts. The next size up gets cut with my MS461 and 24"


I've cut many, many cords of oak, some up to 30" with a 346xp over the years. Favorite saw!
But I do like to run a ported 357 or 562 when the wood gets over 12-16".
No need or want for a 70cc or larger saw at all here...


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