# question on lowering limbs with a figure 8



## rjb (May 27, 2013)

I have never tryed it but i was asked the other day if i had ever used a figure 8 to lower limbs insted of a porta wrap. anyway i was wondering if any one on here has ever done it,why, and what would the application? i can't see it having advantage but what are the thoughts i would like to learn.


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## TheJollyLogger (May 27, 2013)

There have been times when, either being shorthanded, or having a branch double rigged I have used a rescueeght off of a looprunner up in the tree. It's lighter and easier to rig than a portawrap. No advantage on the ground, though.


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## ropensaddle (May 27, 2013)

I just wrap the limb from cut area toward me then put marline and bowline on other end and cut and lower to my groundy! I suppose the figure 8 would do the same but it becomes point below rigging whereas the way I been doing it three decades dont.


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## newsawtooth (May 27, 2013)

rjb said:


> I have never tryed it but i was asked the other day if i had ever used a figure 8 to lower limbs insted of a porta wrap. anyway i was wondering if any one on here has ever done it,why, and what would the application? i can't see it having advantage but what are the thoughts i would like to learn.



For anything over a couple hundred pounds, it's the wrong tool. Rope's method of tying off on a stub (I think that is what he meant, correct me if I'm wrong) is better suited than a figure 8. Some rope tools from other disciplines work well in arboriculture and the 8 has it's place for descent and work positioning, but for rigging it isn't very useful. Just my thoughts.


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## rjb (May 29, 2013)

thank you every one for the advice i thought it sounded ify but i try to learn every time i can but i couldnt see much advantage thanks


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## qwik48r (Jun 1, 2013)

what? in a pinch I guess.... rather a wrap.. its the correct tool for lowering wood.


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## CalTreeEquip (Jun 1, 2013)

I always like using my figure 8, I think it was a CMI with the little wings. The are light weight, quick and easy, good for 1/2" stuff. Good for speed lining and great for lowering from the tree with no gman assist. In other words, your making your way through your trim, groundman is dragging brush, you have a 300 lb limb to lower. You can just stap on the 8 and lower it off the end of your climb line. Gman doesn't need to stop what he's doing and you get to keep moving. Slicker than a snots ass.
I used mine all the time. T bars are great too but for the heaver stuff.


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## CalTreeEquip (Jun 1, 2013)

They are also good for repelling off a tag line in a stick.


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## flushcut (Jun 1, 2013)

I use a SS rescue 8 for jobs where I need fast, light, ultra smooth rigging for stuff 300lbs and under mostly on dead trees were I like to run it to the ground.


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## Tree Pig (Jun 1, 2013)

The thing you have to consider is the bend ratio... they suggest at least a 4-1 ratio (bend/rope thickness) meaning 1/2 rope = 2 inch radius for the bend of your rope. This is meant to prevent damage to the fibers in the rope. Of course for just here and there I guess its not too bad but as a regular practice I would think it would have a negative impact. I know guys use the mini portawrap while in the tree to lower their own pieces but honestly you should never be doing this crap with out a someone else there anyways... too many dead tree guys have been found hours after they were injured, who may have lived if someone got them out of the tree sooner.


This is quoted from another thread 

HSA Rigging Report..." Rope Bend Ratio 7.3.4 When rope passes over an object (e.g. branch or pulley) the bend generated in the rope will result in uneven loading of the threads of the rope. The fibers on the inside of the bend will be compressed, and therefore they cannot participate in carrying the load in the same way as they would if the rope were straight..." ETC, which most know. Then the report quotes Blair, 1999 "Working rope over too small a sheave or tying off to an undersized bollard, for example, can cause both internal and external fibre fatigue and abrasion, creating potential for failure."


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 1, 2013)

CalTreeEquip said:


> I always like using my figure 8, I think it was a CMI with the little wings. The are light weight, quick and easy, good for 1/2" stuff. Good for speed lining and great for lowering from the tree with no gman assist. In other words, your making your way through your trim, groundman is dragging brush, you have a 300 lb limb to lower. You can just stap on the 8 and lower it off the end of your climb line. Gman doesn't need to stop what he's doing and you get to keep moving. Slicker than a snots ass.
> I used mine all the time. T bars are great too but for the heaver stuff.



Lowering off of your climb line? That line has one purpose only.


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Jun 1, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Lowering off of your climb line? That line has one purpose only.



I would never use my climbing line to lower anything but saws....old climbing lines that are retired are fine for the smaller stuff


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## CalTreeEquip (Jun 1, 2013)

Its fine guys, as long as you'r not abusing it. But then again I never wore out my ropes. If something happened to a climb line I didn't like I would turn it into a lowering line, lowering line into a tag line. New rope is the cheapest safety insurance we have.


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## CalTreeEquip (Jun 1, 2013)

Del_ said:


> There is cheaper safety insurance than new rope.
> 
> Using a life support rope only for life support is one that comes to mind.
> 
> There are factors other than rope wear and stress involved in only using life support lines for life support. One to consider what happens if the branch being lowered hangs up in the tree. The climber may not have enough rope to descend to the hung branch and would now be stuck in the tree. It's a bad practice. You mentioned loads under 300lbs which I'm sure that figure is with keeping with the 20/1 loading limit suggested for human support ropes.......but where do you take into account the 'shock loading' that happens when using a climbing rope for rigging?



Like I wrote, "as long as you don't abuse it".
I guess I should have added, as long as you don't get stupid about it.
There is a reason I got done with a 3 man crew what my competition would use 5 men for. And there is a reason I never had a rope failure or serious accident in 20 years of climbing.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 1, 2013)

So send another rope up. 3 man crew, 5 man crew, whatever the case, has nothing to do with having another rope in the tree. Just not a good practice. Nobody has an accident til the first one. Sorry Cal, you're not going to sell me on that one. I don't see any advamtages, and a lot of negatives.


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## CalTreeEquip (Jun 1, 2013)

Well I did and that is real all that counts.
You can learn from others experience or not, its up to you.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 1, 2013)

CalTreeEquip said:


> Well I did and that is real all that counts.
> You can learn from others experience or not, its up to you.



I thought you sold equipment not climbed  Well cal sorry but your wrong here I've done it on stubs like you mention with climbline but no way I will endorse it as correct practice. Matter of fact, the only reason I ever did it was forgot rope and did not care to drive 30 miles! However there is no advantage to using tail of climb line. I have used figure eight like already mentioned as a run to the ground thing and I suppose it is a bit hard on the rope but better than a shockload.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 1, 2013)

Believe me, Cal I've done plenty of questionable things too, and gotten away with them. I'm older and wiser now. But to endorse using your lifeline as a lowering rope, especially in a 101 thread, to me is irresponsible. I get you've been climbing a long time, and have plenty of shortcuts and tricks that have worked for you. But I still haven't seen any reason to use your lifeline to lower a limb as any advantage aside from saving 5 minutes in a tree. Not a good enough reason IMHO.


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