# Bolting a split trunk



## mikeclose

I would really appreciate some expert opinions on this. From reading the forum, I'm sure I'll get a lot of "kill it now" and "save it at all costs" opinions, I welcome them all! 

My neighbor is an old firefighter who just got out of an assisted care facility after a long stent of cancer, infections, and surgeries. He has a big maple (80-ish feet, 8-9 foot diameter?) just across our property line. The tree is Y-shaped, and cracked right down the middle. I just noticed it, but it looks like it's been that way for a while. When the wind blows, you can hear it creaking and see the crack widen and contract. The crotch of the Y is about 8 feet off the ground, and the crack is about 6 feet long, leaving about two feet of intact trunk at the base.

Neither of us has money to have the tree professionally removed right now, and obviously this thing is way too big for us to take down ourselves. I'd really like to save it if possible anyway, or at least keep it standing until it dies. My thought is to put 6 3/4" threaded rods through it and bolt the thing back together. Is that crazy? Overkill? Underkill? Suicide? Is there more I can/should do?

Thanks everyone!

-Mike Close

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## ATH

I'll go with: crazy because it won't likely work. There is WAY too much force at the top of the tree when it is that tall. If the wind is strong enough to finish the split, 3/4 all thread is not going to stop it.

If you put those in there, you are basically 'advertising' "Hey, I know this tree is about to split, but me and my unqualified self (no offense intended....I'm just sayin') are going to make a feable attempt to keep it from falling on your head". How does that look to the family of the injured (or your own insurance company) should the worse case happen? (Neglegence, maybe???)

If you really wanted to support the tree, cabling or bracing 2/3 of the way up the tree would do more than the bolts...but I am not convinced that would even be a great idea. In the long term that would also be more costly than having it removed as regular inspections and potential maintenance will be part of the costs.

If you have friends who can help clean it up and who want firewood, I'd make some calls to professional tree removal firms and see what it would take just to get the tree on the ground...that is often the least expensive cost of a removal job. Clean up and stump grinding take more time that chunking a tree down when there is nothing too sensitive below.


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## 2treeornot2tree

From the pics, the tree doesnt look like 8-9' diameter. I am not a expert at cableing, but I would think you would be better off cableing it together up higher then bolting it at the crack. Attached a pic, showing about where you would want to cable as the best i can tell from the pics.


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## boutselis

A turn buckle and some chain can do a lot but the force will only be applied in one vector. You will be pulling it together in the y axis and not in the x so it will still sway side to side and will probably continue to shear off. 

If you do try it I would think it needs to be lower than what is showed in that last picture. Closer to the thick wood so there is no flex.

If it were me I would cut off the farthest leaning side and probably save half the tree. not at the crotch but a little up and then band whats left together.


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## Carburetorless

While you're at it you should have the one beside it taken down.

That tree looks to be maybe 3 feet in diameter at the most. You might save one leader, the left one looks like it might stand well on it's own, hard to tell from just a pic though.

After looking at the pics more, man that thing's a workshop in codominant leaders. How easy it would have been to correct it when it was small.

Oh well.


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## Stihl Wielder

You want an honest opinion, cut that thing down. Someone else mentioned asking a tree removal service to get it on the ground for you, I am more than sure someone will come and cut that up for firewood for you if you get it on the ground and advertise it as 'free firewood' on craigslist. That tree is almost dead, look at all the bark missing under that split. Its just a matter of time before it busts and falls on something or someone. That tree doesn't look like a real hard one to drop either, for someone with some experience. Just my .02 cents...


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## ShermanC

*I have been there, done that.*



mikeclose said:


> I would really appreciate some expert opinions on this. From reading the forum, I'm sure I'll get a lot of "kill it now" and "save it at all costs" opinions, I welcome them all!
> 
> My neighbor is an old firefighter who just got out of an assisted care facility after a long stent of cancer, infections, and surgeries. He has a big maple (80-ish feet, 8-9 foot diameter?) just across our property line. The tree is Y-shaped, and cracked right down the middle. I just noticed it, but it looks like it's been that way for a while. When the wind blows, you can hear it creaking and see the crack widen and contract. The crotch of the Y is about 8 feet off the ground, and the crack is about 6 feet long, leaving about two feet of intact trunk at the base.
> 
> Neither of us has money to have the tree professionally removed right now, and obviously this thing is way too big for us to take down ourselves. I'd really like to save it if possible anyway, or at least keep it standing until it dies. My thought is to put 6 3/4" threaded rods through it and bolt the thing back together. Is that crazy? Overkill? Underkill? Suicide? Is there more I can/should do?
> 
> Thanks everyone!
> 
> -Mike Close
> 
> View attachment 235432
> 
> View attachment 235433
> 
> View attachment 235434



This is my recommendation in order of the process for due safety precautions. First cordon off the tree area with yellow caution tape to keep anyone away while the work is being done. Next put at least three heavy duty ratcheting web straps onto the trunk to retain it while installing tree rods. Tree rod is 5/8" diameter stainless steel coarse thread and matching nuts and galvanized washers sold by arborist supply vendors. To install requires a gas auger; some makes include Echo, Stihl and Tanaka, maybe Husky and you might find one with a ships auger long enough to get through the trunk, at an equipment rental store. Or hire an arborist to drill and install. The work of running a gas auger will put muscle in your bustle. Don't cut the rod until the washers and nuts are fastened leaving enough to put two nuts on each end to lock them securely. Then cut rod end with a hacksaw and new blade. I have done this work to nine trees since 2003 and all are still alive. If the tree survives it will grow over the hardware like girdling. In your case the co-dominance is a close V so the rods could be installed two feet apart by height elevation and cross cross at 10-15 degree angles to retain the trunk evenly. Once done, remove web straps. Leave the caution tape in place for a month for observation to make sure the installation is secure. Then have the tree pruned and deadwooded by a trained arborist. Good luck and thanks for this thread.


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## sgreanbeans

I feel sorry for the poor bastage that runs into that bolt with his saw, when that tree gets removed anyway.


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## boutselis

treetopguy2028 said:


> This is my recommendation in order of the process for due safety precautions. First cordon off the tree area with yellow caution tape to keep anyone away while the work is being done. Next put at least three heavy duty ratcheting web straps onto the trunk to retain it while installing tree rods. Tree rod is 5/8" diameter stainless steel coarse thread and matching nuts and galvanized washers sold by arborist supply vendors. To install requires a gas auger; some makes include Echo, Stihl and Tanaka, maybe Husky and you might find one with a ships auger long enough to get through the trunk, at an equipment rental store. Or hire an arborist to drill and install. The work of running a gas auger will put muscle in your bustle. Don't cut the rod until the washers and nuts are fastened leaving enough to put two nuts on each end to lock them securely. Then cut rod end with a hacksaw and new blade. I have done this work to nine trees since 2003 and all are still alive. If the tree survives it will grow over the hardware like girdling. In your case the co-dominance is a close V so the rods could be installed two feet apart by height elevation and cross cross at 10-15 degree angles to retain the trunk evenly. Once done, remove web straps. Leave the caution tape in place for a month for observation to make sure the installation is secure. Then have the tree pruned and deadwooded by a trained arborist. Good luck and thanks for this thread.





Don't the straps have to be placed higher up above the crack to pull the two pieces together (if straps can do that. I have only seen chain and turn buckles used to pull both halves together)


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## ShermanC

*Cabling*



boutselis said:


> Don't the straps have to be placed higher up above the crack to pull the two pieces together (if straps can do that. I have only seen chain and turn buckles used to pull both halves together)



I have cabled a few trees by drilling through the trunk, inserting galvanized eye bolts, connecting with chain or high strength cable and thimbles to turnbuckles. The turnbuckles need to be loose enough to allow static movement of the tree in stormy weather. This type of system is more support than it is a retainer. I have also used Cobra cabling systems but the product life is rated at eight years because it is deteriorated by UV rays of the sun.

The purpose of web straps is a temporary bond while the tree rod is being I stalled. Three years ago I used four big straps to hold a split codominant red oak trunk while we removed the entire tree close to two buildings. The tree measured 80 rings of growth, 58" dbh, 18 major limb structures and the stump base was nine feet across. Inside the trunk was metal pipe, welded wire fence, barbed wire, a horseshoe, twisted shank nails and a screwdriver. I hope to never get one like this again for I ruined my Stihl 066 Magnum doing it.


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## Carburetorless

treetopguy2028 said:


> I have cabled a few trees by drilling through the trunk, inserting galvanized eye bolts, connecting with chain or high strength cable and thimbles to turnbuckles. The turnbuckles need to be loose enough to allow static movement of the tree in stormy weather. This type of system is more support than it is a retainer. I have also used Cobra cabling systems but the product life is rated at eight years because it is deteriorated by UV rays of the sun.
> 
> The purpose of web straps is a temporary bond while the tree rod is being I stalled. Three years ago I used four big straps to hold a split codominant red oak trunk while we removed the entire tree close to two buildings. The tree measured 80 rings of growth, 58" dbh, 18 major limb structures and the stump base was nine feet across. Inside the trunk was metal pipe, welded wire fence, barbed wire, a horseshoe, twisted shank nails and a screwdriver. I hope to never get one like this again for I ruined my Stihl 066 Magnum doing it.



Sounds like a tornado deposited the contents of a wagon in that one.


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## chunkymonkeyjon

personally in my experience i think that boring through the tree with a drill to brace the limbs with plates is rather invasive and would leave the tree open to attack from parasitic insects or fungi. bracing with a slightly slack rope or loop is better, tying a bowline on a bight at each end. this will prevent damage to any surrounding objects/boundarys or people under it when the branch union fails (if it is indeed included bark we're talking about)

in terms of preventing a section to split out - the best thing is to thin the crow out lightly to reduce the sail effect the wind may have on the tree, letting it pass through as opposed to hitting against the tree, like a sail does catching the wind. not only will this reduce the stress on the union, it shall also reduce SOME but perhaps not enough weight from the two co-dominant stems so bear that in mind - you may need to take a little more off.

you shouldn't prune them yourselves if you dont have much pruning knowledge if you'd like the tree to recover healthily after the curts have been made. pehaps sections of a max 4 " have to be take off but not a huge about more, just a few of them, adequate enough to prevent the split and losing the tree altogether

having said that i am still young with only 5 years climbing and arboriculture exp but over here, our maples suchh as the field maple _Acre campestre_ and the "false maple" or sycamore _Acer pseudoplatanus_ are prolific growers and grow at an astonishing rate, generally very vigorus and sometime rather hard to get rid of as they are so hardy


hope this helps

J


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## chunkymonkeyjon

chunkymonkeyjon said:


> personally in my experience i think that boring through the tree with a drill to brace the limbs with plates is rather invasive and would leave the tree open to attack from parasitic insects or fungi. bracing with a slightly slack rope or loop is better, tying a bowline on a bight at each end. this will prevent damage to any surrounding objects/boundarys or people under it when the branch union fails (if it is indeed included bark we're talking about)
> 
> in terms of preventing a section to split out - the best thing is to thin the crow out lightly to reduce the sail effect the wind may have on the tree, letting it pass through as opposed to hitting against the tree, like a sail does catching the wind. not only will this reduce the stress on the union, it shall also reduce SOME but perhaps not enough weight from the two co-dominant stems so bear that in mind - you may need to take a little more off.
> 
> you shouldn't prune them yourselves if you dont have much pruning knowledge if you'd like the tree to recover healthily after the curts have been made. pehaps sections of a max 4 " have to be take off but not a huge about more, just a few of them, adequate enough to prevent the split and losing the tree altogether
> 
> having said that i am still young with only 5 years climbing and arboriculture exp but over here, our maples suchh as the field maple _Acre campestre_ and the "false maple" or sycamore _Acer pseudoplatanus_ are prolific growers and grow at an astonishing rate, generally very vigorus and sometime rather hard to get rid of as they are so hardy
> 
> 
> hope this helps
> 
> J



ps i think drilling and boring should be avoided if this a specimen tree. its unheard of in the uk as there are so many pests and diseases that like to thrive off the trees. place the brace (rope or sling) about 15 feet minimum from the union as the weight in a tree is not in its trunk, but in its tips, where the moisture is and where the leaves are


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## Zale

Installing brace rods can be a pain in the arse. How long is your bit? If you have never done it before, look up the ANSI specs. In addition to the rods, I would also cable it and prune it to reduce the load. You will need a bit long enough to go through in one pass. It is very difficult to drill from each side and try to match up the holes. You need to clean out the hole as you go or your bit will get stuck.
You will also need a gas drill. If the tree were to fail, would it hit anything?


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## pdqdl

That tree looks like a fine candidate for cabling. Study up on it a bit, then rent an aerial or hire a pro to do it for you.

I don't really see any reason to remove the tree. That is simply a co-dominant leader that has grown together. Neither half is materially dependent on the other, since they grew for the majority of their lives almost as separate trees.

Bolting is best used to stabilize a fresh split that needs to be held together to enable the wood to grow back together. What you have there is "enclosed bark", which only forces the fork to be a weak union at best. 

Skip the bolts, cable it. Some trimming might be in order, too.


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## pbtree

Stihl Weilder said:


> You want an honest opinion, cut that thing down. Someone else mentioned asking a tree removal service to get it on the ground for you, I am more than sure someone will come and cut that up for firewood for you if you get it on the ground and advertise it as 'free firewood' on craigslist. That tree is almost dead, look at all the bark missing under that split. Its just a matter of time before it busts and falls on something or someone. That tree doesn't look like a real hard one to drop either, for someone with some experience. Just my .02 cents...



Bingo - sound advice.


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## ATH

pdqdl said:


> ...That is simply a co-dominant leader that has grown together. Neither half is materially dependent on the other, since they grew for the majority of their lives almost as separate trees....





chunkymonkeyjon said:


> ...(if it is indeed included bark we're talking about)
> ...



Look at the first picture closer. Yes, there is included bark, but there is a huge split that nearly goes all the way to the ground. That is the problem! This thing is on its way down.


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## Tree Feller

could you not cut a notch in the left face, and then bore in to the center of the tree, cutting toward the notch, falling the left side and then do the same for the right just as if you were falling any other tree?? thats if the split goes all the way though and will turn lose once the tree starts to fall!


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## pdqdl

ATH said:


> Look at the first picture closer. Yes, there is included bark, but there is a huge split that nearly goes all the way to the ground. That is the problem! This thing is on its way down.



That split has been there since those two leaders started growing together. I deal with more silver maples than almost anything else. I constantly see splits like this that are standing for many years with no help whatsoever. If I was going to condemn the tree, it would only be after I confirmed significant decay, which has not been demonstrated in this thread. _That tree could use a little support, but I see nothing that merits removal. _

You guys that make your living scaring folks into removing every imperfect tree irritate me. If your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, doesn't it?

Treeseer, where are you buddy?


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## ATH

A) I don't even own "that hammer". I would defer on that removal job as we do not do large removals..so no, I don't take a one size fits all aproach. I make money when clients keep trees, not so much when they remove them. Nice try though.
B) That crack has not been there since the stems grew together. There would be evidence of significant callous wood if that is the case.

There MAY be a little bit of callus tissue (blue arrow, and on the other side), but that is only a couple of years old so it is a pretty new crack. It looks like there are even some fungal fruiting bodies (green arrow), but I can't tell for sure from that picture.

View attachment 235749


I'm trying to offer a realistic evaluation of the situation (at least as much as possible from 3 pictures online and the description that it creaks and moves in the wind...). I am always going to "play it safe", not pretending something might be safe when there is pretty good evidence to the contrary. If I was going to deem that tree safe it would only be after a through evaluation to confirm the crack is stable and there is NOT significant decay. I guess just looking at from the other side of the coin from pdqdl.

The assumption of the OP was that the tree is prone to failure because of the crack. He was asking if bolts would make an unsafe tree safe. Anybody willing to say "yes" to that one?

If he can't afford a bucket truck to drop the tree, I think it is probably safe to assume he can't assume afford to hire a proper cableing job by a qualified professional (likely more $ than a quick removal).

I see nothing when looking at this whole picture to say "keep it"...but that is just me.


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## pdqdl

I think we agree on more points than we disagree. I am just not inclined to cut down trees because they have flaws. Of all the catastrophic tree failures that I see, I don't think I have ever seen a multi-stem silver maple fail at the base unless it was blatantly rotten.

On the other hand, they lose lots of top branches in practically every ice storm. The tree pictured in this thread appears to have had quite a bit of lion-tailing in the past, so I assume that it really doesn't have a very big load on the split.

I didn't see any prominent targets beneath it either, so I vote to keep it. When I get a customer that asks me about the health of the tree, I always ask them if they would rather keep the tree, or cut it down.

This "customer" said "I'd really like to save it if possible anyway, or at least keep it standing until it dies". My response to that, based on my rather extensive experience at cutting down and trimming silver maples is to _keep the tree_.


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## pdqdl

BTW: I don't know what you guys charge for cabling, but you can't rent a bucket truck for what I would cable that tree for. Looks like about $250.00 to me.


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## ATH

pdqdl said:


> I think we agree on more points than we disagree. ....
> 
> I didn't see any prominent targets beneath it...
> 
> This "customer" said "I'd really like to save it if possible anyway, or at least keep it standing until it dies". My response to that, based on my rather extensive experience at cutting down and trimming silver maples is to _keep the tree_.



I can definately see your perspective on those points, and don't disagree... I just reached a different conclusions. I think that is because we start with a different mindset. Like you said, you are starting from "the customer wants to keep the tree", and I am starting from "play it safe". I guess our respective starting places influence how we weigh each piece of the puzzle differently. I can't say either is wrong as a general operating principle as I don't think I have ignored the customer's wishes any more than you have ignored the safety of the situation...just different perspectives. If he keeps it and it splits next week, I will have been right (though I'd cringe more than smile if it splits). If he keeps it and it stays there for 10 years I will have been wrong (and I'll smile more than cringe if the tree remains safe).

As the OP recognized, there will be differing opinions. Hopefully those have made for fruitful conversations!


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## boutselis

treetopguy2028 said:


> I have cabled a few trees by drilling through the trunk, inserting galvanized eye bolts, connecting with chain or high strength cable and thimbles to turnbuckles. The turnbuckles need to be loose enough to allow static movement of the tree in stormy weather. This type of system is more support than it is a retainer. I have also used Cobra cabling systems but the product life is rated at eight years because it is deteriorated by UV rays of the sun.
> 
> The purpose of web straps is a temporary bond while the tree rod is being I stalled. Three years ago I used four big straps to hold a split codominant red oak trunk while we removed the entire tree close to two buildings. The tree measured 80 rings of growth, 58" dbh, 18 major limb structures and the stump base was nine feet across. Inside the trunk was metal pipe, welded wire fence, barbed wire, a horseshoe, twisted shank nails and a screwdriver. I hope to never get one like this again for I ruined my Stihl 066 Magnum doing it.





That was one hell of a tree.


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## mikewhite85

Pics can always be deceiving but it doesn't look like too expensive of a removal. That could probably by done for around 600... or less if you just hire someone to chunk it down and you do the clean up.


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