# Pullin em out old style



## fmaglin (Jan 23, 2010)

Currently I began cutting a 47 acre tract of hardwood in North Central Ohio. So far, I have felled around 12,000 bd ft when our weather suddenly changed from winter to spring. I needed to get the logs out without tearing things up too badly, as the owner is ready to sell this piece of property. Faced with these circumstances I decided to contact some Amish folks to skid the logs out with horses. At7:00 AM Thursday morning they arrived after hiring a driver with a large livestock trailer which was loaded with 5 Belgian draft horses, harness, hay, and oats, and an ingenious skidding cart. One team was used to skid the logs out onto the trails, where the second team, which consisted of 3 horses abreast pulled the cart to the logs. The cart had a set of tongs and chains that rode on an angled piece of square tubing that sloped to the front. When the cart was stopped, the tongs would slide forward close to the ground to hook on to a log. As the driver would call giddup the tong would slide to the top of the angled square tubing lifting the front of the log off the ground making it easy to skid. The three horse team had no trouble at all skidding 32" diameter Poplar, Maple, and Cherry logs that I had bucked into 26' lengths. At the end of the day they had about 6000 bf skidded to the landing. It was awesome to be working without all of the noise associated with heavy machinery. I really would have liked to take some pictures to post; however, I had to respect their request not to take photos as it is against the Amish religion to have images of them taken. It sure turned out to be a beautiful and peaceful day of logging in the woods of North Central Ohio.


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## treefrog359 (Jan 23, 2010)

*logging*

i was just wondering where at in ohio you are logging? i am located in holmes county.


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## fmaglin (Jan 23, 2010)

treefrog359 said:


> i was just wondering where at in ohio you are logging? i am located in holmes county.



I'm between Danville, and Mount Vernon. I've been through Big Prairie often.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 23, 2010)

I worked around horses in the woods a little in Maine ............It is nice and quiet ... ...........


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## tlandrum (Jan 23, 2010)

are you in howard? i lived in apple valley for 5 years. got tired of the snow and moved back south


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## fmaglin (Jan 23, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> are you in howard? i lived in apple valley for 5 years. got tired of the snow and moved back south



Yup, I live in Apple Valley. I moved south in 1993 and regretted it. Just ain't my cup of tea. Have been back in Ohio for 4 years now and won't ever move again.


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## fmaglin (Jan 23, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> I worked around horses in the woods a little in Maine ............It is nice and quiet ... ...........



Hey Tramp, do the fallers in Maine try to cut everything with a 20" bar?


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## Rookie1 (Jan 23, 2010)

Wheres the pictures? Dont the Amish let ya take pics of them.


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## fmaglin (Jan 23, 2010)

Rookie1 said:


> Wheres the pictures? Dont the Amish let ya take pics of them.


Check out the second from last sentence of the opening thread.:monkey:


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## tramp bushler (Jan 24, 2010)

fmaglin said:


> Hey Tramp, do the fallers in Maine try to cut everything with a 20" bar?


.

.YUP. at least they did when I was there .. half wrap handle bars too ... It was pretty , less than professional on the falling while I was there ....I was a teenager and didn,t realize there was an art to putting timber where you wanted it ......My dad was pretty good at directional falling ,on purpose .......





not much on teaching how to do it tho ......

.lots of guys didn,t even have dogs ,even little ones on their saws .... Pretty ignant ...


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .YUP. at least they did when I was there .. half wrap handle bars too ... It was pretty , less than professional on the falling while I was there ....I was a teenager and didn,t realize there was an art to putting timber where you wanted it ......My dad was pretty good at directional falling ,on purpose .......
> 
> ...


Yeah that's how the Amish cut their timber....Stihl 044 with a 20" bar and a SKIP TOOTH chain, small dogs on one side only. They said they like the skip tooth on a short bar so they can spend less time filing.:monkey:


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## 385XP (Jan 24, 2010)

I used to use a 20'' bar a lot but once istarted usin the longer bars i found that i liked them alot more alot less messing around.


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## PB (Jan 24, 2010)

fmaglin said:


> Hey Tramp, do the fallers in Maine try to cut everything with a 20" bar?



You can cut 95% of the trees in Maine with a 20" bar. The trees aren't that big up here folks except for the occasional one.

If you are interested in more information on LI forestry, check this out: http://www.mofga.org/Programs/LowImpactForestry/tabid/227/Default.aspx

They have a workshop each fall on logging with horses, farm tractors, and other non-conventional methods. Bunch of hippies, but the food is good and taught by CLP professionals.


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## Rookie1 (Jan 24, 2010)

fmaglin said:


> Check out the second from last sentence of the opening thread.:monkey:



You couldnt have asked them to politely step out of the frame and take pic of their horses and logs.:monkey:


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## Taxmantoo (Jan 24, 2010)

Can you get pictures of the carts?


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

Rookie1 said:


> You couldnt have asked them to politely step out of the frame and take pic of their horses and logs.:monkey:



Been there and tried that. What goes for them goes for their horses. I may try to sneak a shot next time around if my step son will loan me his small camera.


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

385XP said:


> I used to use a 20'' bar a lot but once istarted usin the longer bars i found that i liked them alot more alot less messing around.


:agree2:


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> You can cut 95% of the trees in Maine with a 20" bar. The trees aren't that big up here folks except for the occasional one.
> 
> If you are interested in more information on LI forestry, check this out: http://www.mofga.org/Programs/LowImpactForestry/tabid/227/Default.aspx
> 
> They have a workshop each fall on logging with horses, farm tractors, and other non-conventional methods. Bunch of hippies, but the food is good and taught by CLP professionals.


Interesting link.


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## Greystoke (Jan 24, 2010)

*Jesse...Very big draft*



fmaglin said:


> I really would have liked to take some pictures to post; however, I had to respect their request not to take photos as it is against the Amish religion to have images of them taken. It sure turned out to be a beautiful and peaceful day of logging in the woods of North Central Ohio.



Not horse logging, but a good pic of a BIG draft horse named Jesse that I worked on when I went to the MSU horseshoeing school in the fall of '08. I beleive they just use him to pull a wagon. We figured he was around 17-18 hands. All I know is I am glad he was nice to me:


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

taxmantoo said:


> Can you get pictures of the carts?



I'll give it a try.


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> Not horse logging, but a good pic of a BIG draft horse named Jesse that I worked on when I went to the MSU horseshoeing school in the fall of '08. I beleive they just use him to pull a wagon. We figured he was around 17-18 hands. All I know is I am glad he was nice to me:


A big boy like that could sure be intimidating. Seems like most of the Draft breeds have good dispositions. It was kinda strange that the three horse team they had on the cart, which consisted of Bill, on the left, Bob on the right, and Johnny in the middle all worked well together,but when they were unhitched, Johnny wanted to bite and kick Bill and Bob.


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## Boike (Jan 24, 2010)

if you dont mind me asking, what kind of rate were they charging for pulling the wood to the landing? What kind of terrain were they/you working in?


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## Zackman1801 (Jan 24, 2010)

right now im working for a guy up here in maine that hauls some wood with draft horses. iF the weather gets better any time soon and i ever make it back to the woods ill see if i can get a few pics of the horses in action. They are kinda limited this time of year as to where they can go because of the deep snow and brush, but if you can get the logs to the trail for them they have a pretty easy time hauling them around. Its a totally different type of logging with these guys out there, you really have to be on your toes or your going to get crushed or are going to be chasing a horse down the road.


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## fmaglin (Jan 24, 2010)

Boike said:


> if you dont mind me asking, what kind of rate were they charging for pulling the wood to the landing? What kind of terrain were they/you working in?


Lots of variables......How far to skid, terrain etc. This job is moderately hilly with trails that cross over creeks. Their going rate is anywhere from .08 to .10 cents per bd ft.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 24, 2010)

*any thing that big that thinks requires me to have a gun at hand*

.. The last time I was around a horse ,it tried to kick my head off .......More reciently me and my dog had a stand off with a small herd of Norweigan Fjord horses ...... sept I had a 338 RUM and they figured out real quik I would kill em all if they , about 10 didn,t run for their lives !!!!!!!#### horses ..Worse than a team of sled dogs ...


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## Sparky8370 (Jan 24, 2010)

Rookie1 said:


> You couldnt have asked them to politely step out of the frame and take pic of their horses and logs.:monkey:



That's what I was going to say!


taxmantoo said:


> Can you get pictures of the carts?


That would be cool too. This is a pretty big forum, maybe there are some Amish 
people here who will chime in and post some pics of their equipment.


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## fmaglin (Jan 31, 2010)

*Pictures*

Well, the weather here turned cold again and I was able to have more logs skidded out. I was able to take a few pictures as long as I didn't get any face profiles of the guys doin the skidding. It was a pretty cold morning with temps of 4 degrees, but it didn't seem to slow things down much.

The 1st picture isn't very good, but it's of the cart. The second picture was taken about mid morning. You can see the steam coming off the horses in the 4 degree temperature. Picture 3 shows Bill and Bob, a two horse team pullin some out, and the last pic shows the logs that were pulled out by lunch time. At the end of the day they tallied 5100 Bd ft.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 31, 2010)

That's good stuff, looks like fun...


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## Rookie1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Nice pictures. Ill bet if its quiet and you dont hear any cars or trucks you may think your back in the 1800's. Very cool.


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## John Ellison (Jan 31, 2010)

*Kate and Buck*

Here are some pics of my old logging partners. I worked them for ten years and sold them a few months ago. It was really hard to do as I had worked with them longer than I have ever worked with anyone.

I had'nt used them regularly for a year and a half so they were bored. I hated to see them come to the gate in the mornings and want to go to work.
Lots of good times.


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## fmaglin (Jan 31, 2010)

John Ellison said:


> Here are some pics of my old logging partners. I worked them for ten years and sold them a few months ago. It was really hard to do as I had worked with them longer than I have ever worked with anyone.
> 
> I had'nt used them regularly for a year and a half so they were bored. I hated to see them come to the gate in the mornings and want to go to work.
> Lots of good times.



Really nice pictures John. I'll bet those fly harnesses are pretty much mandatory especially in the summer months. I like your log cart. It is in similar design to the one the Amish folks are using. The main differences are that the Amish can only use steel wheels, and they made their cart narrow enough to back into a long livestock trailer. The guy that hauls them to the job site has the cart backed in first (usually they do this with the horses), then they kinda angle their horses in next. All in all, they haul the 5 horses, the cart, harness, oats, hay, and miscellaneous tools.

I'm not for sure if this is true, but an old timer once told me that when a team of horses are hot from working, you can founder them if you placed feed in front of them before they cool down; however, you can place feed in front of mules and they won't touch it until they cool down. Have you ever heard of this?

I'll bet it was pretty tough to have to let them go.


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## John Ellison (Jan 31, 2010)

I don't know much about horses, but I have heard the same thing. My mules would shut themselves off eating and drinking, don't think they could founder. But I personally know of one mule that foundered overeating corn, so it is possible. As long as they were not starving, they could pretty much take care of themselves as far as what or when not to eat.


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## Rick Alger (Jan 31, 2010)

Hi John,

Nice pair of mules. I also like the looks of the arch in the second picture. Hope you'll say a bit more about it. Did you pull it with your forecart? Does it have brakes? How did you get it to straddle the log? 

I'm still logging with my horses, but the money is less than it was ten years ago.

Rick


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## floyd (Jan 31, 2010)

I find it interesting that butt chain harness isn't used. I expect it is because they are on a tongue & not ground skidding. When ground skidding one can double the chains without unhooking as there is a ring on the singletree instead of a hook.


I feel it is better to have a cart no wider than the team. Reasons should be obvious. 

Also notice they do not try to deck the logs. It is time consuming to deck with a team.


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## John Ellison (Jan 31, 2010)

The arch is an old propane tank trailer that I redone to pull behind the cart. It worked but is far from ideal, too heavy and cumbersome. Would get full suspension on the short logs. I knew that the 1300 lb mules would have a time with the logs on that job so I used it because it was the only way I could log it with what I had. They could walk off like pulling a wagon, but it was hard to position and heavy to back. No brakes. 95% of the time I ground skidded. Used the cart when necessary but only used the arch on that one job.


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## John Ellison (Jan 31, 2010)

floyd said:


> I find it interesting that butt chain harness isn't used. I expect it is because they are on a tongue & not ground skidding. When ground skidding one can double the chains without unhooking as there is a ring on the singletree instead of a hook.
> 
> 
> I feel it is better to have a cart no wider than the team. Reasons should be obvious.
> ...



There are butt hooks on the end of the traces. The chain is permanently fastened to the singletrees. Works the same way as what you mentioned.
Yes the arch is seven foot wide and as I said far from ideal. The cart can squeeze thru almost as small a hole as the mules can, much narrower and it would turn over too easy.


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## floyd (Jan 31, 2010)

One time I should have used the quote thing. I was referring to the pics of the amish horses.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

John Ellison said:


> Here are some pics of my old logging partners. I worked them for ten years and sold them a few months ago. It was really hard to do as I had worked with them longer than I have ever worked with anyone.
> 
> I had'nt used them regularly for a year and a half so they were bored. I hated to see them come to the gate in the mornings and want to go to work.
> Lots of good times.


..

Really Cool John ... I had no idea mules could work for so many years ......Nice pics ........ I like the modern Big Wheel arch ....


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## fmaglin (Jan 31, 2010)

floyd said:


> I find it interesting that butt chain harness isn't used. I expect it is because they are on a tongue & not ground skidding. When ground skidding one can double the chains without unhooking as there is a ring on the singletree instead of a hook.
> 
> 
> I feel it is better to have a cart no wider than the team. Reasons should be obvious.
> ...


There is a hook on the doubletree.


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## floyd (Jan 31, 2010)

I hope there is a hook on the doubletree...I was talking about butt chains. With butt chains alot of folks put a ring smaller than the ring on the butt chains on the singletrees.


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## huskyhank (Jan 31, 2010)

Great thread!

Keep going.


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## Meadow Beaver (Jan 31, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> Not horse logging, but a good pic of a BIG draft horse named Jesse that I worked on when I went to the MSU horseshoeing school in the fall of '08. I beleive they just use him to pull a wagon. We figured he was around 17-18 hands. All I know is I am glad he was nice to me:



That reminds me of the horse Biff Tannon rode in "Back to the Future: Part III"


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