# On Chain Saw Sharpening and Sharpeners



## Kong (Nov 17, 2009)

After years of pushing files back and forth I decided to buy a "Professional" sharpener for my chain saws. I didn't know much about them when I started looking around a couple of weeks ago and don't know much more now, at least with any certainty. So I thought I'd share my sharpening story and tell you all what I've seen and see what you have to say.

First off I've got two (Stihl) saws that can interchange bars and chains and my son often uses one while I use the other. When we go for a day's cutting we usually take two or three extra chains per saw. We don't let them get very dull and I resharpen all the chains at the end of the day. Its been that way for a long while.

To sharpen I clamp the saw's bar in a vice, break out the file/guide, and have at it. Two saws, three or four chains per saw; boredom and tedium, year after year after year. Now the thing is I wouldn't mind this other than that no matter how careful I am I can never get the chain quite as sharp as it was when new. I can get them good, sometimes even great, but never exactly like new. I never understood why until last week. Then one day it occurred to me that the difference came because I was sharpening a cut that had been made with a flat disk but suing a round file to do it. In short the cutting face I left after sharpening was not the same face that the factory left when the chain was manufactured. I was leaving what was in effect a hollow ground edge whereas their's was flat. Mine would be sharper, but only for the first or second pass through the wood, then it would be just a bit duller. Also, my hand sharpening almost never took into account the length of the resultant cutters. Even though I make it a point to count file strokes so that every cutter gets more or less even treatment they still become uneven over time.

Now I'm getting older than salt and I'm tired of filing chains. If I left it to my son we'd buy a new chain every time one got dull; presumably the money to do so would come from the chain-fairy.

I could of course take my chains out to have them sharpened professionally. Locally that would cost $7 off the saw, $13 on it. I can buy new chains all day long on E-Bay for $20 each so professional sharpening makes very little sense.

Electric disk sharpeners seem to come in two versions. There are cheap ones and there are expensive ones. Cheap ones cost forty bucks, expensive ones cost three or four hundred bucks. There is no apparent differences between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. Oregon seems to be the major manufacturer and they make several models; my interest extends to the top two in their lineup, the 510 and 511 models. These are small bench grinders that allow contoured stone disks to be presented to the cutters at precise angles to do the sharpening. You can duplicate the original factory angles, hence an "as new" cutting face. This is what I want. Some sharpeners have plastic bodies, some are aluminum. Some had manual vise systems to hold the chain as its being ground, some (expensive) use an hydraulic mechinism. I saw a reference someplace to either a NIOSH or EPA regulation that causes new grinders not to blow sparks in the operator's face and somehow this effects the performance of the sharperner - but I couldn't find anything specific about this so it might just be internet-hogwash for all I know.

So the question is, do I spend $40 or $400? There are precious few reviews that I can find on line for sharpeners and most of them look like plants from sharpener manufacturers so I thought I'd ask here.

How do you sharpen, do you have any comments on sharpeners? Oh, I've used all those clamp on file-guide gadgets over the years. Worthless if you ask me.


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## ghitch75 (Nov 17, 2009)

go to here and look at the sharpening vid...


http://www.husqvarna.com/us/forest/support/how-to-videos/


this kits are the best i have ever used....


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## ericjeeper (Nov 17, 2009)

without a doubt Northern Tools 99 dollar oregon Knockoff grinder.


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## MotorSeven (Nov 17, 2009)

I hand file most of the time & always in the field using a stump vise. I do hit barb wire from time to time, and I hate to admit this, but....limestone. Up on my ridges I always end up cutting over a rock outcropping, then sloppyness, or tired or in a hurry and one touch is all it takes. 

So, for these chains that hit other than wood, I bought a Harbor Freight $30 grinder. It worked ok, the disc's are junk, so I put Oregon disc's on it. The adjustments and chain lock are cheezy & the motor made really strange sounds.....I gave the whole set up to my neighbor & bought the Northern Tool one for $89. Do a search here and there are a page or two of threads on it. Throw the disc's away & buy Oregon or some from Bailey's. A few minor mods may be needed(I had to grind down between the base plates for a better stable fit when locked down). I think the NT one is a great value and does a good job, I don't think you will regret buying one....jmho.

It's on sale & they are offering additional coupon discount(s):

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200327449_200327449

RD


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## trouba (Nov 17, 2009)

ericjeeper said:


> without a doubt Northern Tools 99 dollar oregon Knockoff grinder.



:agree2: I have had one for over a year now and it's been great.


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## blades (Nov 17, 2009)

The difference as noted above is the quality of the motor, in a home use function the Northern is ok for the price point. Here at my shop it would not last a day as the motor would burn out. ( I have worn out a couple of the Oregons and Silva models over the years also) There seems to be one common mfg. for the better units (Italian) with everyone sticking there name on it with a few minor changes to the clamping mechanism.( or China clones?) Much like band saws and scroll saws. If you stick with the Oregon units you should be able to get parts for a long time.
As to your comment on the reversable wheel direction. On a power grinder it is best to grind from the inside to the out side edges on the cutters hence the reason for reversing the wheel. the 2 issues that come into play are as noted grinding dust in the face and wheels coming loose due to operator not tightening the spindle nut correctly. In either case made a payday for lawyers.


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## Laird (Nov 17, 2009)

My situation is similar to yours except that I bought a Oregon 511A Bench Grinder because I was never able to get a good sharpening by hand filing. I think it's a physical disability because I can't cut a straight line with a miter box either. Any loop hand sharpened by me was a disaster. 

With the 511A I can do touch ups where I don't remove much of the sawtooth or I can really grind them if I have rocked them. I'm sure I will go through chains a little faster than those who hand file them but I can sharpen 6 loops in a half hour to 45 min and they are really sharp and cut true. Having one has really taken away the only thing that frustrated me when cutting wood.

As to your comparison shopping I'm not much help as I have never tried anything else. I just did the math on how soon the sharpener would pay for itself compared to having it done. One down side will be all your friends and relatives will bring chains with them when they come to visit!:monkey:


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## trialanderror (Nov 17, 2009)

i bougt the $20 attactment that goes on a dremel and a couple of stones....

works like a dream, and in a matter of minutes both sets of teeth done on a 24" bar, only takes a few seconds to touch up a tooth...... has the 30* angle grooves and foot to sit on the tooth. once i see powder, i get on it with the dremel, few minutes, back to woodchips flyin...it's night and day on the effectivness on oak, so it's gotta do something right, and if you do each tooth equally, it hogs straight down the log like a knife....light, easy to handle, fail safe, stones are cheap (widget supply is the best place for dremel accessories, i buy 1.5" cutoffwheels by the hundreds..., $17 for 100, HDsupply wants like $10 for 7!)
best part is if you got a decent cordless, you can quick sharpen without a vise in the field....

it's not stout enough to take down rackers... i attack those with the angle grinder...it's kinda wild though, easy to go too far....just cuts more quicker!

note* i guess this is pracitical for people who never cut fresh standing trees, i'm cleaining up stuff from past logging; laying in the dirt, been dragged a 1/2 mile through woods, sometimes i'm sloppy and will bump the nose into the dirt (cutting on ground, i know, bad habit). But, i buy up chains at fleamarkets, about 8 years ago pops & i bought 70 chains for $20. only 1/2 through the stack.....
i guess it depends what your cutting...


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## tibikedad (Nov 17, 2009)

I previously used a hand file and the $30 hand attachment to a Dremel tool. They both worked, but I was never able to get a factory sharpening. Finally, I got fed up, and bought the Oregon 511AX sharpener for a little more than $300. With little practice, I am now able to get the chains as sharp as new! I don't ever let them get too dull anymore. I just touch them up and put them back to work. I was even able to salvage a chain that broke a tooth when it hit an imbedded eye hook (you couldn't see the hook from the outside of the tree). It cuts almost as well as the other chains. 

I don't have any experience with the cheaper "look-alike" models, but the quality of the Oregon sharpener is first rate. It is very easy to use. This machine should last me a lifetime.


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## avalancher (Nov 17, 2009)

trialanderror said:


> it's not stout enough to take down rackers... i attack those with the angle grinder...it's kinda wild though, easy to go too far....just cuts more quicker!





Angle grinder on your rakers?Your kidding, right?

I highly recommend the northern tools grinder for $100.00,it saves a lot of time and grief when you rock out a chain.But in all honesty,I rarely use mine.I stick to the old file and guide because I really hate buying new chains.A grinder will use up those teeth a whole lot faster than a file,no matter how hard you try to go light with the grinding stone.I swipe the chain in the field on every fill up, generally two swipes per tooth does just fine and keeps the chips flying.Takes less than 5 minutes on a 24 inch bar if you keep the chain sharp rather than letting it go to the point where you have to make it sharp again.
JMO


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## Ductape (Nov 17, 2009)

*I've also got the $100 Northern Tool chain grinder .........*

I'm 200% happy with it. I've had it a couple years, and its long ago paid for itself. Perfect, its not. A great value, it is. Like yourself, i hand filed...... with the occaisional trip to the saw shop when my saw would cut whacky. They'd do my chain on a grinder to even up the cutters, and all would be well for awhile. Same as yourselves, i go out cutting with several chains.... and swap them in the field when needed. What made me buy my own chain grinder, was working logging on a local farm one winter. I learned to sharpen chains on their grinder and never looked back. With all the positive reviews here on the Northern unit, i was sold. I highly recommend this grinder.


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## Marc (Nov 17, 2009)

I use the Husqvarna Sharp Force guide and get great results.

As sharp or sharper than new, everytime. Even after I hit buried barbed wire or other fun surprises. Does the rakers at the same time so they stay the right height and you don't have to tackle them separately.

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/homeown...ries/filing-equipment/sharp-force-file-guide/


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## trialanderror (Nov 17, 2009)

avalancher said:


> Angle grinder on your rakers?Your kidding, right?
> 
> I highly recommend the northern tools grinder for $100.00,it saves a lot of time and grief when you rock out a chain.But in all honesty,I rarely use mine.I stick to the old file and guide because I really hate buying new chains.A grinder will use up those teeth a whole lot faster than a file,no matter how hard you try to go light with the grinding stone.I swipe the chain in the field on every fill up, generally two swipes per tooth does just fine and keeps the chips flying.Takes less than 5 minutes on a 24 inch bar if you keep the chain sharp rather than letting it go to the point where you have to make it sharp again.
> JMO



i don't sharpen the teeth with an angle grinder...i use the stone and guide...
and no, i'm not kidding....then again these chains are almost 29 cents out of my pocket, so if i bump a raker too far, big deal....


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## avalancher (Nov 17, 2009)

trialanderror said:


> i don't sharpen the teeth with an angle grinder...i use the stone and guide...
> and no, i'm not kidding....then again these chains are almost 29 cents out of my pocket, so if i bump a raker too far, big deal....



You had me going there, I was just quoting what you said!


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## trialanderror (Nov 17, 2009)

haha, it's alright. I do the extreme; usually it's because whatever is handy...angle grinder is usually at reach...


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## avalancher (Nov 17, 2009)

trialanderror said:


> haha, it's alright. I do the extreme; usually it's because whatever is handy...angle grinder is usually at reach...



ive used a angle grinder to trim my toe nails, but never reached for one when dealing with something as delicate as rakers!


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## logbutcher (Nov 17, 2009)

Marc said:


> I use the *Husqvarna Sharp Force *guide and get great results.
> 
> As *sharp or sharper than new, everytime. Even after I hit buried barbed wire or other fun surprises. Does the rakers at the same time so they stay the right height and you don't have to tackle them separately.*
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/homeown...ries/filing-equipment/sharp-force-file-guide/



All you need to know IF you want to sharpen right by hand---shop or field.

Made by *PFERD*, often under other names. Simple, fast, does it right.
We use a stump vise in the field. No bother with power. with over grinding, the Pferd tool does it right. ( No Virginia, I do not own stock in the comapany. )


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## Ohiowoodguy (Nov 17, 2009)

Silvey is the best by far- if you're really serious about sharpening ALOT of chains. I tried the $100-$300 toys: they burned the teeth, stones loaded up (and thus wore down) fast, motors burned out and parts broke.


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## dnf0929 (Nov 17, 2009)

Another vote for The NT $100 grinder. Can't believe I wasted so much time and butchered chains.


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## Nandy (Nov 17, 2009)

What about this one from harbor freights:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93213

It will be on special for $25. 

Precision angle adjustment to keep your chain in top condition. Height and scale positioning.

* Chain vise adjusts to all chain designs and pitches
* Includes 4-1/4'' x 1/8'' grinding wheel
* Mounts to bench, wall, or vise
* Large side safety guard
* 4200 RPM grinding speed
* 4-1/4" wheel with 7/8'' arbor
* 115 volt, 0.75 amp, direct drive ball bearing motor 


Vise capacity: 0.5"-0.8"; Table vise angle: 0-35° right or left; Power cord: 7 ft. 11"; Wheel dimensions: 4-1/4" diameter x 1/8" H; Overall dimensions: 10" L x 9" W x 12-1/8" H
Tool Weight: 4.85 lbs.

Thanks for your input.


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## J.W Younger (Nov 17, 2009)

Theres so much knowlege on this site but even tho sharp chains are one of if not the most important things to consider the people that know maybe just don't know where to start .
chain off the roll can be made better with a file 99.9% of the time with just a round and a flat file. Wherether its worth the time or not is up for grabs but no way will any grinder get a chain working better than a file in the right hands.


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## MNGuns (Nov 17, 2009)

Call me old school, cheap, or both but I hand file and get darn good results. Been cutting steady all year and still have the same chain on. Granted she's getting near done. I never let it sling dust, but touch it up regular or if I know I grounded it. I'll save the extra money for fuel and oil.


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## SWI Don (Nov 17, 2009)

I have a Maxx Grinder. It is similar to the Oregon ones except it has more adjust-ability and a mechanical automatic clamping system that works pretty good. It tilts left and right so you can always sharpen the cutters in the correct direction. 

They are made in Italy. 

Don


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## trialanderror (Nov 18, 2009)

you guys must value chains like a $80,000 caddy....they're just chains, they wear out!

you can buy the best most expensive teeth sharpening tool, and have it just as super ultra slice a hair in 1/2 blah blah blah

many shapenings later, they still stretch and then ride the sprocket wrong!!! so now you have a high dollar taken care of chain you can't use!! reason i've never bought a $100+ sharpener......dremel or pencil file IMO, cheap maintenance for something that will wear out...


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## beerman6 (Nov 18, 2009)

Nandy said:


> What about this one from harbor freights:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93213
> 
> It will be on special for $25.
> ...



If you lived closer,I'd give you mine.Flimsy plastic junk.

I've been pretty happy hand filing my chains.


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## smokinj (Nov 18, 2009)

avalancher said:


> ive used a angle grinder to trim my toe nails, but never reached for one when dealing with something as delicate as rakers!



lol +1 on that I think the rakers are just as important as the cutters,I will grind the cutters and hand file the rakers


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## Nandy (Nov 18, 2009)

beerman6 said:


> If you lived closer,I'd give you mine.Flimsy plastic junk.
> 
> I've been pretty happy hand filing my chains.



Nuf said, tanks!


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## HOGBEAR (Nov 18, 2009)

I use the Oregon sharpener that clamps on the bar and hand file,seems to be good just slow.


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## ghitch75 (Nov 18, 2009)

how did this go to grinders?


" On Chain Saw Sharpening and Sharpeners "

isn't this what he asked?


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## Marc (Nov 18, 2009)

HOGBEAR said:


> I use the Oregon sharpener that clamps on the bar and hand file,seems to be good just slow.



I tried one of those a couple times before using the model I described previously in the thread. Goes about 5x faster. They're like 20-30 bucks and it's night and day compared to the bar clamp style.


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## slofr8 (Nov 18, 2009)

Kong said:


> Then one day it occurred to me that the difference came because I was sharpening a cut that had been made with a flat disk but suing a round file to do it.



Years and years ago, when I was logging, an old Canadian logger showed me how to file. I use a new (good) round file. I use my right hand to file one side, and my left hand to file the other. Same angle on both sides. Practice, practice. Muscle memory. Once you know what a sharp chain should look like you can get a chain to cut better then out of the box. 
I don't mean that the week end logger will file enough to get the results he did, but it is possible to do.
Dan.


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## Suz (Nov 19, 2009)

MNGuns said:


> Call me old school, cheap, or both but I hand file and get darn good results.



I went to the same school as MNGuns and I've also been hand filing my chains for years. I've tried the fancy bar jigs and the Dremel grinder with crappy results.
Give me some good files and I'm happy. The chains always seem to cut and pile up the wood chips! 
(My saw doesn't make dust so I don't get any "saw dust". )


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 19, 2009)

My vote is for the Oregon 511AX...and Save-Edge files...


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## SWI Don (Nov 19, 2009)

I hand file my chains most of the time. I use the grinder to even up rocked out chains and set the rakers even. I usually end up grinding other peoples' chains more than my own. 

Don


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## Nosmo (Nov 20, 2009)

*Hand Filing*

I hand file my chains and if I am cutting in the woods I carry an extra chain and my sharpening tools in the truck with me. I don't have a stump vice but I can give you a helpful hint.

Carry a pair of 3" Cee Clamps with your sharpening tools. Use a clamp towards the end of the bar on each side and the saw will not rock while filing the teeth. The tailgate is just about the right height for me as a bench while doing this.

Nosmo


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 20, 2009)

Nosmo said:


> I hand file my chains and if I am cutting in the woods I carry an extra chain and my sharpening tools in the truck with me. I don't have a stump vice but I can give you a helpful hint.
> 
> Carry a pair of 3" Cee Clamps with your sharpening tools. Use a clamp towards the end of the bar on each side and the saw will not rock while filing the teeth. The tailgate is just about the right height for me as a bench while doing this.
> 
> Nosmo



That reminds me...without doing a search, who made that fancy bench vise for saw sharpening??...maybe Mr. Laird?


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## Laird (Nov 20, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> That reminds me...without doing a search, who made that fancy bench vise for saw sharpening??...maybe Mr. Laird?



Nope, I use nothing but my 511A.


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 20, 2009)

Laird said:


> Nope, I use nothing but my 511A.



Someone had built a really nice workbench mounted vise that was far superior than a standard bench vise...thought it was you, I know you are of superior intellect!.....

:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## bobfeather (Nov 23, 2009)

for years i filed the chains & got pretty good at it, but it takes so long
bought a dremel knock off tool, $20, and a 3 pack of round stones at TSC
( they make different sizes according to your chain ) they fit perfectly in the cutter & put a nice edge on the chain takes 5 minutes just do it free hand
with a little practice you can keep the angle perfect
usually do it before i go to the bush & it's good for the day ( if i keep the saw out of the dirt )
bob


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## Jan-Sietze (Dec 28, 2014)

Why bother with an expensive device 


Fortunately not my video, not my style.


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## Johnny Yooper (Dec 28, 2014)

sorry, can't help with all the sharpening machines that are out there. Guess I'm old school like some others out there: first day out with my dad that he let me use the chainsaw I put the bar in the dirt within 5 minutes.....he came over and taught me how to hand sharpen with a file; he used to log back in the 50's so I figured I'd better pay attention. Glad I did. That was over 38 years ago and I'm still hand sharpening. Some years ago I tried one of those Dremel outfits.......less than one minute I was back to hand filing; threw that gadget away so my dad wouldn't see it my shop. Funny thing, years ago my dad said he even sharpens new chain before he puts it on the saw, and I said "really??" and he said "cuts ahelluva lot better".


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## 79jasper (Dec 29, 2014)

mtfallsmikey said:


> That reminds me...without doing a search, who made that fancy bench vise for saw sharpening??...maybe Mr. Laird?


Search "chain vise."

Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk


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