# Carbide tipped chainsaw chain



## Railomatic

Anyone ever used carbide tipped chain for cutting contaminated timber before, the fire department use this for cutting out building roofs when they need to get into somewhere rather quickly.
I have been told that you cannot get a carbide chain as sharp as normal chain, maybe somebody knows someone in the fire dept.


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## lawson's tree s

ive seen it before forsale it is exspensive. but they say you can cut dirty logs stumps, etc supposed to stay pretty sharp.


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## WRW

What contaminants are you talking about? Rocks? Nails? Creosote?


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## curdy

I know someone who uses one. He built a modified mill that attaches to his skid steer and has I think a 60" bar on it. He explained that he does sharpen them himself, but its goes a long time before needing it. 

He said the cost is large up front, but it out lasts multiple chains...that case combined with sharpening less often, he feels like he came out ahead. 

I don't remember the website he got it from...started with a R I think. I'll try to find it.


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## WRW

curdy said:


> I know someone who uses one. He built a modified mill that attaches to his skid steer and has I think a 60" bar on it. He explained that he does sharpen them himself, but its goes a long time before needing it.
> 
> He said the cost is large up front, but it out lasts multiple chains...that case combined with sharpening less often, he feels like he came out ahead.
> 
> I don't remember the website he got it from...started with a R I think. I'll try to find it.



curdy,
Would that be Rapco? They have a website.


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## Wismer

Yes, I have heard of that Rapco website. www.rapcoindustries.com, just looked it up. I saw an article in farmshow magazine. They advertise the chain as staying sharp up to 30x longer than the normal chain, that would be just normal wood though. If you are cutting contaminated wood i imagine that number would take a dive. I have been thinking of getting one. If it can stay sharp that long, and outlasts other chains. It makes sense. I cut mostly clean wood. 

Any one heard anything else?


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## WRW

Wismer,
It's hard to quantify, since I've made no timed cuts, but carbide chain is slower than regular chain in clean wood...a lot slower. I would prefer to cut clean wood with the regular chain and touch it up after every tank of fuel.


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## Wismer

I've heard alot of talk about sharpening or touching up your chains after every tank of fuel. How many people do that? I can usually get through maybe.... 3-5 tanks without sharpening... of course it always depends on type of wood, how dirty it is blah blah blah. Do many of you guys sharpen that much?

WRW - how much slower?


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## WRW

Like I said, I can't be sure but carbide is in the ballpark of 66% as fast as the chisel chain (round ground).


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## English Oak

*Metal detector??*

I've heard that sthil sells these hard wearing chains, but i cannot spend that amount of money on a chain that I'm not sure about. I would be interested to see if it does work well.

I myself have had alot of problems with nails and things in the wood. I found ten 6" nails in a large walnut last month, they totally trashed 3 chains. So I spent £35 on a good metal detector now. Its good to see more people from the U.K are posting on this site.


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## aquan8tor

I hear that about the nails. I'd post pics, but my camera is acting up; I hit a nice golfball sized piece of quartz the other day milling a 24"x72" section of hickory. (actually it isn't finished yet, hehe). I started getting sparks from the chain, and thought it was just binding in a crosscut, or needing sharpening. DAMN was I wrong. Rock was buried 8" into the crotch of the tree. Chain was totally F()&UDUP. 

More bad luck the same day, I broke a loop of LP ripping chain milling yellow pine 2x8's. Just wasn't my day!! Pulled a drive link right in half. Fixed the chain today, but I'm a little leery of using it on the hickory.




Back to the carbide, I'm under the impression that it can't take any buried debris at all; the 'contaminants' I thought it could handle was just dirt, etc. I thought it was really really brittle and shatters the VERY VERY expensive tips if you hit anything. Lucas sells carbide chains for slabbing big burls; there's where I can see a great use for carbide; clean wood, but lots of stress and very very long cuts where you don't want to stop in the middle and have to sharpen the chain. I guess with the HP behind those chains, the speed differnece between round chisel chains and carbide is pretty negligible if you keep it sharp 5x longer or more. I don't have any experience personally, But I'm following the thread as I'm now interested.


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## Railomatic

*Hello fellow British person*

Its good to see more people from the U.K are posting on this site.[/QUOTE]

Hello English Oak

Welcome to the forum from another English, what outfit do you run for milling.

Raily.


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## Railomatic

*Carbide tipped chain*

Back to the carbide, I'm under the impression that it can't take any buried debris at all; the 'contaminants' I thought it could handle was just dirt, etc. I thought it was really really brittle and shatters the VERY VERY expensive tips if you hit anything.[/QUOTE]

According to Stihl the chain and bar kit they sell to the fire department is used for cutting into anything wood walls etc, in the brochure it shows a fireman cutting into a roof on top of a building.

In the picture, it shows only the tip of the bar being used as there is a limit stop fastend to the bar, leaving only the top 8 inches showing.

I suppose they don't worry about the tips when they are trying to cut a route into a building for the fire hose, expense goes to the tax payer.

I have used this chain only a couple of times before, once for cutting through a very old apple about 28 inches across, I hit a huge metal shackle, probably knocked into the tree a hundred years ago, it measured 3/8" thick and 4 inches long, this is why I always keep the tipped chain handy.

One good thing with chain is you can always replace the damaged tips when needed, the other time the tipped chain come in handy, was when milling a big old Yew, a boulder the size of a melon had grown into the fissures, out of sight, the tipped chain soon made dust of that, so I could continue cutting.


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## curdy

WRW said:


> curdy,
> Would that be Rapco? They have a website.



Sorry, forgot to check back to this thread. Yes, Rapco is correct.


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## WRW

curdy said:


> Sorry, forgot to check back to this thread. Yes, Rapco is correct.



Thanks. They were the most agressive chain I tried out, and (other than cutter's edge) they had the best backing for the cutters to keep them from snapping off.

Railomatic,
I wouldn't say they will cut through anything, but they will cut through a lot. The best thing is, they will continue to cut after going through a nail while a regular chain will just about stop right there.
As for replacing the tips, they have to be sharpened back to where the old tips are, and additionally, three to five cutter replacements usually equals the cost of a new chain.


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## Wismer

How much does a Rapco full chisel chain run for?


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## aggiewoodbutchr

I called them not long ago. Their chain sells for $1.95 a DL. That equals $300 for a chain to fit my 44" bars.:jawdrop:


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## English Oak

Railomatic said:


> Its good to see more people from the U.K are posting on this site.



Hello English Oak

Welcome to the forum from another English, what outfit do you run for milling.

Raily.[/QUOTE]

Hi railomatic, I'm running at the moment a shtil ms441 with a small alskan 20" mill ,its ok but doesn't get the straightest planks.I would love to have a small hand held portable bandsaw mill, but have no idea where I can get them from in the u.k . I also use my friends wood mizer which is great, but cost alot to hire out from him.
Tom


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## Wismer

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> I called them not long ago. Their chain sells for $1.95 a DL. That equals $300 for a chain to fit my 44" bars.:jawdrop:



holy crap! who thinks its worth it?

even though it may be slower i would love to be able to cut 30x as long without sharpening.....

am i right in assuming halfish price for my 20" bar?

$150ish?


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## aquan8tor

Big chains that lucas sells don't have full complement cutters--something like triple or quadrouple skip, so less cutters=less $$. 




Hey Rail, so if I'm understanding you, the carbide chain will cut through metal and stone??????? DAMN. What did the cutters look like afterwards?? Any damage?? and, can you sharpen it yourself with a file guide??


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## Wismer

Yes you can sharpen them yourself, you buy a diamond file with the carbide chain


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## toadman

I am new to the site, but I have been using Stihl brand carbide chains on my company's firewood saws. Mostly Stihl 290's & a couple 460's... I personally have started to use my personal saw (661 c-m) with a steel chain more often than not, for various reasons. We cut about 12-14 tons of wood a day, each. 5 days a week, for three months straight in the fall to sell. one cut after another until the pile is gone The wood is mostly oak, locust, sycamore, and ash. 
The reason I decided to use my own steel, instead of carbide was for a couple reasons... 
I hear all these story's of people cutting rocks and metal with a carbide chain, and I can't see it happening. 
I ruined a full loop of Stihl 16" carbide chain on the first cut with it last year. 
Every carbide cutter on the left was broken beyond repair by hitting a single drywall screw embedded in a log. I finished that cut with a steel chain, including hitting another screw & it just needed a quick hand file and hit the rakers to cut better than new again.
This is not a one time ocurrance, and we regularly have the cutters snap off, or shatter without any sparks or warning whatsoever.
I used to cast blame for dipping it into the dirt, or into the gravel, dropping the saw in the truck, Ect. 
I am not sure the real reason, and I don't blame people anymore as I do it myself while doing none of those things. Debris (other than fine dirt or sand) in the wood with a carbide chain is a pretty expensive lesson to learn on your own dime. 
That said, we have been able to go a full season on a single chain per saw in the past & if you are careful with what you cut. 
I use husqvarna brand chain oil, and carbide chain tends to stretch past the point the tensioner can compensate before it slows down considerably- cutting clean dry wood. My steel chain is lucky to go a half day without a touchup, but I can get a full season of cutting circles around carbide in productivity, often halving my time spent & cutting the same amount of wood each day, out of just two steel chains. Again, if I am careful & keep them sharp.


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