# Need a quick way to rappel from palm trees



## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

Looking for some ideas on a quick rappel from palm trees.

My old boss used to just tie one end of the rope off with a clove hitch to his harness, and then hold for dear life on the standing end with his hands while tending the rope himself while rappeling. Probably one of the sketchiest things I've ever seen.

But I'm looking to employ a similar method, tie one end off with an anchor hitch to my harness, and use something like a figure 8, or munter hitch , etc to tend the standing end of rope while rappeling.

Whatever it is, it just needs to be smooth and consistent cause if you sit on the palm trees too much or apply too much force, the rope gets jammed in the fronds.

Thanks in advance


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

So you're going through the crown and coming down ddrt?


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> So you're going through the crown and coming down ddrt?


yea


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

I prefer srt with a base tie, but if you're doing ddrt what's wrong with a blakes?


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I prefer srt with a base tie, but if you're doing ddrt what's wrong with a blakes?



I think i misworded my original post. every where i used the term, "running end" replace it with "standing end" (part of rope that runs to the ground).

and im curious as to what end of the rope do you tie ur base tie with? do you tie it in a way that another person could belay you down?

and the blakes works, i just hate rappelling that fast on a friction hitch


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

Base tie one end, pass it through the canopy and come down the other leg on an eight or my R.I.G.


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Base tie one end, pass it through the canopy and come down the other leg on an eight or my R.I.G.



i like that method, i just feel like by the time you base tie it, pass the remaining length of rope, (100' plus) through and over the canopy, and rappel down, you could of just spiked down faster.
maybe im just being lazy..

so you've never just tied the working end of the rope to your harness and used the figure 8 on the standing part to rappel?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

It works ok, just a little hard on the fronds and the rope. You can always throw a friction saver on it. I usually set it up first and climb them srt. My customers appreciate a spikeless prune.


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> It works ok, just a little hard on the fronds and the rope. You can always throw a friction saver on it. I usually set it up first and climb them srt. My customers appreciate a spikeless prune.



friction saver around the trunk correct? i always wondered how well it holds. feels like it could just slip right down the trunk.

and the only thing about setting the rope from the ground srt that i dont like is how it could potentially crush 1 or 2 center fronds if you dont get a perfect center throw between them


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

or did you mean friction saver around a few fronds?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

Friction saver through the canopy.


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

is it a pain in the as to get the friction saver out from the ground when your done?


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

you talking about the ring style friction saver?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

Nah, just put a stopper not on the end of your rope, pops right out.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

Leather or hose type works best in this situation.


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

ahh, good deal, i might give that a shot. thanks.

as far as rappelling with the friction saver method, what kind of system do you recommend tying up?
just like a traditional ddrt with a blakes hitch?
or use a figure 8 with one end of rope terminated to your harness?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

If you've already got your blakes set for your second TIP before you start cutting, might as well come down on that instead of untying and setting up your eight.


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## Tree94 (Jul 9, 2015)

oh no I rarely use 2 tie in points when doing palms. Sometimes I'll bring up 2 lanyards and wrap them both around the trunk. But as far as throwing my climb line through the canopy and then start to cut, that's just too close to cutting my climb line for my likings


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2015)

T.I.T.S. , Bro...


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 9, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> T.I.T.S. , Bro...


I like tits. I agree Tie In Twice Stupid.

How is your shoulder Jeffro?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 10, 2015)

Still hurtin pretty bad from the surgery monday. I'll know more next week.


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## Tree94 (Jul 10, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> T.I.T.S. , Bro...



you never come close to cutting your climb line like that?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 10, 2015)

No, if I need to take the time to reset it, I reset it.


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## Tree94 (Jul 10, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> No, if I need to take the time to reset it, I reset it.



That's crazy, i never heard/seen anyone do that here in Arizona. What kind of palms do you have where you're at? Do you have Washington robusta?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 10, 2015)

Some. Most places we did palms were high end and willing to pay for spikeless pruning.


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## Tree94 (Jul 10, 2015)

over where I'm at there's palms on every corner, you basically just hike up and down them all day. And because of lots of Mexican competition, they go for only about 40 bucks a piece. So taking all that time to rope them just doesn't make too much sense here.
Thanks for the tips on the friction saver, I'm going to implement that probably soon though


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## Nish (Jul 10, 2015)

I'd use an adjustable friction saver like this one or that one, or splice my own with a length of hard lay three-strand. Tighten the friction saver around the trunk, leaving just enough space between the rings so they tighten together under load.

Then all you need is a locking carabiner and a munter hitch. For fast rappels, I believe the munter hitch beats the figure 8 for less heat build up, as the primary point of friction is distributed throughout the length of the rope.


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## Nish (Jul 10, 2015)

Nish said:


> I think I'd use an adjustable friction saver like this one or that one, or splice my own with a length of hard lay three-strand. Tighten the friction saver around the trunk, leaving just enough space between the rings so they tighten together under load.
> 
> Then all you need is a locking carabiner and a munter hitch. For fast rappels, I believe the munter hitch beats the figure 8 for less heat build up, as the primary point of friction is distributed throughout the length of the rope. Just don't let go. For more security in a fast descent, I've heard good things about the spiderjack.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 10, 2015)

An eight actually builds up less heat since there's no rope on rope contact.

In this scenario you've described, 94, I think I'd take my climb line, use an anchor or buntline hitch to put a biner on it, run it through my eight with 3-4 ft of tail, and then tie my throwline onto the biner. Spur up, flip it around the trunk and lock it off, and go to work. When you get done, rappel down and use the throwline to open up the loop until it slides down the trunk. Reset your eight and on to the next one.


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## ksvanbrunt (Jul 14, 2015)

I used to do a lot of coconut trees in hawaii and our two ways of doing it was an adjustable friction saver just below the crown and repel ddrt, or girth hitch a bigger carabiner, like a petzl Williams, set up your figure 8 and put your weight on it then put your tail through the carabiner afterwards. With your tail through the biner as well you can pull the loop through from the ground to retrieve it. You just have to have a rope long enough to make it to the ground and back up again. Hope that makes sense.


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## Tree94 (Jul 14, 2015)

ksvanbrunt said:


> I used to do a lot of coconut trees in hawaii and our two ways of doing it was an adjustable friction saver just below the crown and repel ddrt, or girth hitch a bigger carabiner, like a petzl Williams, set up your figure 8 and put your weight on it then put your tail through the carabiner afterwards. With your tail through the biner as well you can pull the loop through from the ground to retrieve it. You just have to have a rope long enough to make it to the ground and back up again. Hope that makes sense.



so you put the friction saver around the trunk correct?
I just always imagine it wanting to slip down the trunk


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## ksvanbrunt (Jul 14, 2015)

Tree94 said:


> so you put the friction saver around the trunk correct?
> I just always imagine it wanting to slip down the trunk



Yep, around the trunk. With the adjustable you make it so the rings are just about to touch. It won't slip as long as you set it up tight enough. I look at it like its the same concept as relying on your lanyard to catch you if you were to gaff out on a spar.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 16, 2015)

Tree94 said:


> so you put the friction saver around the trunk correct?
> I just always imagine it wanting to slip down the trunk



Well, you can do what you want, but, you can set your friction saver after you prune and and still be able to retrieve it from a freshly cut cut petiole.
Jeff


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## beastmaster (Aug 3, 2015)

I've done a lot of Washingtonia palm over the years. I'll only climb srt if they have a lot of dead fromes for safety reasons, though ive done maybe a thousand of them back in the day trimming up ward. but ive never climbed down one. If im useing double rope I'll run it through a freshly cut petiole or two, coming down the opposite side of wear its running throu. Even then sometimes it takes a little help pulling the rope out. Best is to us a friction saver around the trunk. So long as its smaller then the diameter of the palm it'll hold ,you can beat your life on it. I just use my regular set up to come down a Vt. If i SRTed up ill come down with a gree gree or figure 8.


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## treesmith (Aug 8, 2015)

Don't do many palms but an ART rope guide can be choked off securely on a smooth straight stem and is retrievable, I use it on pretty much every tree whether it's a high anchor for pruning or round the stem as I'm coming down on spikes. Quick, easy and consistent, also easy to retrieve and reset in another position, say from one side of the tree to another or when descending down from a high anchor to a position to fell out the head or even just chogging down the stem. 

Nice to have that secure quick escape route


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## Nish (Aug 8, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> An eight actually builds up less heat since there's no rope on rope contact.



Not true. Rope on rope contact isn't so bad if the friction is distributed through the length of the rope, as in the munter. Generally speaking, friction burns your rope when it occurs at a constant location, as in the natural crotch, the friction hitch, the rappelling device, etc. That, of course, is how you get the heat to _build up_.


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## acer-kid (Aug 10, 2015)

Nish said:


> Not true. Rope on rope contact isn't so bad if the friction is distributed through the length of the rope, as in the munter. Generally speaking, friction burns your rope when it occurs at a constant location, as in the natural crotch, the friction hitch, the rappelling device, etc. That, of course, is how you get the heat to _build up_.


Why would the rope running on your carabiner via munter hitch, be any different than the rope running through an eight? Except for it occurring in closer proximity, as well as the added friction of rope on rope contact?

I'm very interested, if you are in fact right.
But I don't understand the whole "entire length of rope stuff"


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## Nish (Aug 10, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Why would the rope running on your carabiner via munter hitch, be any different than the rope running through an eight? Except for it occurring in closer proximity, as well as the added friction of rope on rope contact?
> 
> I'm very interested, if you are in fact right.
> But I don't understand the whole "entire length of rope stuff"



With the figure 8, the primary points of friction are those spots on the metal device which the rope runs through. These spots are a constant location for friction, and thus provide an opportunity for heat created by friction to build up in a location. The munter hitch, which really does rely on rope on rope contact, has no constant location for (the main) friction. As you descend on the munter, the primary point of friction is continually changing as the rope passes through (the segment of rope creating the munter hitch at one point in your descent will be different from the segment of rope creating the munter hitch an any other point in your descent). And so the heat created by that friction has no similarly opportunity for build up, and, therefore, the munter hitch is importantly distinct from any other descending devices I know of, including the various other friction hitches used by climbers (prusik, Blakes, VT, etc.), which also involve rope on rope contact.

With the munter, there obviously is some heat build up in the carabiner. Some of this is from the rope-on-carabiner friction. In that respect the munter is similar to the figure 8. The difference is that, unlike with the figure 8, this is not the primary point of friction, especially, I think, as the loads increase.


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