# Can some climber with some exp/knowledge help me with some question i have?



## Daggi (Nov 3, 2012)

Hey

I need help on some question regarding tree climbing:msp_tongue::

- If i am climbing a tree and using the chainsaw and i have the climbing/rigging rope in the harness because i will rigg it up when i am higher up in the tree.

My chainsaw is hanging in the chainsaw lanyard, how do i protect the rope from getting cut by the chain??

Place the chainsaw near to the harness or is there other ways?

And how much damaged can the rope be before i have to cut away the damaged part?

- Slings: Where i live there is no local climbing tree climbing store, i have to order most of equipment online.

So i am gooing to make myself some home made sling for lowering of small limbs.

Can i use a normal climbing rope for this, cut it in 1-1,5 m and tied it together?
I guess it should be strong enough? for smaller limbs pieces...


- Fliplines/lanyards: I am using 2 wire fliplines when climbing.

I have made a lanyard of normal climping rope, 10 or 12 mm, this lanyard i am going to use when i need stabilization together with the wire fliplines. 

I guess it is no problem using a normal climbing rope for this?

- Any good tips on a good and not so expensive communication radio for the climber and the ground man?

Rigging rope:

On the end of the rigging rope where you tied the rope to the limb that is going to be removed, do you put on some kind of sling or something similar for protecting the rigging rope from the chainsaw bar?

Thanx


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## Carburetorless (Nov 3, 2012)

Hang your rigging line on your left side, and your chainsaw lanyard on your right side.

I use a marline hitch and a running bowline to rig down pieces(tied with the end of the rigging line). To avoid cutting the rigging line, make your face cut before you tie your hitches, and don't cut all the way through your hinge when you make your back cut.


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## Guran (Nov 3, 2012)

Hey Daggi! Welcome to the forum. A fellow Scandinavian. 
You will find lots of wisdom here. I have for sure got good advice from the members in this forum. Great bunch.
You have a lot of questions in this post, maybe you should focus on a one or two at a time in each post. 
Regarding damage to your climbing rope; a sharp chain will easily damage you climbing line if it's get tangled.
A minor damage to your climbing rope will cause it to snap more easily. If you detect any damage to your climbing line; replace it! Your life depends on it.......
Göran.


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## Daggi (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanx for the tips, yes ..many question here, maybe better if i split it up in many threads 

Anyone got some more trick to share about the question i posted? :msp_biggrin:


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## squad143 (Nov 4, 2012)

Welcome to AS

Best thing you can do is get "The Tree Climbers Companion" by Jeff Jepson. This book will help you.
Climbers Companion : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment

As Carburetorless mentioned keeping your chainsaw on one side of your harness and your lines on the other will minimize the damage the saw does to your rope. Additionally, I don't let my saw hang off the full length of the lanyard (dangling below me). I keep it attached close to my saddle while climbing.

Here is some info on rope inspection. Lots of other good info on the web as well.
http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/Rope_Inspection_&_Retirement.pdf

For lowering light limbs you can always natural crotch using the limb you're cutting, just make your cut further in the branch so you have a nice stub. Once the branch is on the ground, remember to cut your stub flush. If you want a sling for light stuff, you can make your own loop runner out of flat webbing. Just make sure you use a proper knot with webbing (water knot or beer knot)
Water Knot | How to tie the Water Knot | Climbing Knots
Actually, that site is very helpful in learning to tie a lot of knots.
If rigging anything heavy, use a proper sling and block.

Yes you can use regular climbing line as a lanyard. Inspect it regularly as its prone to abrasion.
I climb with one wire core and a climbing line, using the rope as my second flip line. I'll haul up my rigging line with the tail of my climbing line once I'm ready to use it.

I use Peltor Pro-comm headsets for communicating of real technical stuff. They are expensive, but you can occasionally find them on eBay at a deal. 
One of the most effective communication system is hand signals. Groundies should almost always have an eye on the climber while hes in the tree. Carry a whistle, sometimes good for getting someone's attention.

To avoid cutting your rigging line, as previously mentioned, make your notch/kerf before you tie your line. Make sure your line runs across your initial cut that you made and then do your back cut. 
I usually try and have my rigging point away from the item I'm cutting and therefore the angle of the rigging line is not near where I'm cutting, how ever that is not always possible. 
On other occasions, I'll tie off further on a branch (couple of feet) and run the line under the branch and start cutting from rhe top. As the branch starts to lower, hinging on its own fibers, the rope is now out of the way and I can complete my cut. This also depends on where your rigging point is, size of the limb and how much control I want in the direction of the limb. Tree species also comes into play.
Always know where your bar and your rope is.

Hopefully this helps. The search feature on this site is a great tool. Play safe.


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## Bermie (Nov 6, 2012)

I leave my saw on the ground until I am set and ready to start cutting. 
My groundie can tie it on for me to pull up, or if I am by myself (not recommended) I tie it to the rope by my feet before I go up, then pull it up. I haven't had any major issues with nicking the rope with the chain when pulling it up...over the last 9 yrs. If you are super concerned, bring a small tag line up with you and use that instead of the climb line.
If you have to climb with the saw, clip it to the centre loop in the back of your harness where it will hang evenly, or the opposite side.

The 'rule of thumb' for cuts and nicks in your rope, is if two adjacent (side by side) strands are fully cut, then get rid of that bit, or get a new rope if you are unfortunate enough to have nicked it in the middle.

I make my own lanyards from 1/2" 16 strand climb line, carabiner or safety snap in one end, stopper knot or something in the other, a friction hitch, another biner and a tending pulley and good to go. Make it as long or as short as you like! I like the thicker rope, easier to grip,

Yes, when rigging, if there is the possibility of being too near your rope, make the notch first, then tie on the rigging line, then do your back cut. I often use slings and clip the rigging line to the sling, can help keeps things clear and easier for groundies to detach. Obviously the rating of the components is dictated by the weight of the piece!


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## Daggi (Nov 6, 2012)

Hello

Lots of tips and lots of things i have to learn 

Thanx 

See i have to rethink how i am going to climb with the saw. 

For slings i am going to buy some slings and some climbingropes, i also have gots some Dynemarope that i made sling of also.

I have this book and a rigging book, i also use the youtube a lot for tips.

And then i climb and climb and cut down down trees to learn more


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## Bermie (Nov 12, 2012)

Whatever you do Daggi, keep this thought foremost in your mind ALL the time when preparing to cut:

'What will happen if this goes wrong?'

In other words...
Where will the peice you are cutting go? (will it hit you, jerk your harness or ropes, hit a valuable target)
Where will your saw go? (will it contact your rope, your lanyard, or you, or can it fall clear?)
Where will you be when the other two fall? (will you fall, swing, lose your balance, or be in the way of the wood or saw?)

Taking a few extra seconds or a minute to get a good secure position, and think through the cut and its results can save you a lot of grief

I have had things go a bit wrong from time to time, it's inevitable, one day it WILL happen. When that day comes if all three things fall away separately, (except you, tied in nicely, pehaps going for a long gentle swing...) then you'll walk away with nothing but a bruised ego and a learning experience.

BE cautious, be safe, NEVER think you know it all!


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## smokey01 (Nov 12, 2012)

Daggi said:


> Hey
> 
> I need help on some question regarding tree climbing:msp_tongue::
> 
> ...



I can't give you any advise but I do want to relate a story I heard at one of the conferences I attended. 
I guy got used to attaching his rigging line to the side of his harness, just a half hitch. One day, it got pulled into the chipper and ripped him out of the tree, he fell 38 feet landing 20' feet from the spar he was in. Lived, but............
Anyway, maybe think about attaching that line to your harness or using some kind of break away or light line. Not advise.........just thinking to myself.


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## Carburetorless (Nov 12, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> I can't give you any advise but I do want to relate a story I heard at one of the conferences I attended.
> I guy got used to attaching his rigging line to the side of his harness, just a half hitch. One day, it got pulled into the chipper and ripped him out of the tree, he fell 38 feet landing 20' feet from the spar he was in. Lived, but............
> Anyway, maybe think about attaching that line to your harness or using some kind of break away or light line. Not advise.........just thinking to myself.



Use brightly colored ropes, hire groundies who aren't color blind, teach them not to throw ropes into the chipper, and don't park the chipper so close to the tree you're working. lol

I'm thinking the rope would have gotten chewed off and pulled back out of the chipper before it ripped the climber out of his tree though.


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## Guran (Nov 14, 2012)

Bermie said:


> I have had things go a bit wrong from time to time, it's inevitable, one day it WILL happen. When that day comes if all three things fall away separately, (except you, tied in nicely, pehaps going for a long gentle swing...) then you'll walk away with nothing but a bruised ego and a learning experience. BE cautious, be safe, NEVER think you know it all!



Well, it happened to me this weekend. I was cutting a big part of a limb. Had it rigged through my porta wrap, then trough two natural crotches.
The groundie only had one turn of the rigging rope on the PW but the crotches pinched the rigging rope. Instead of lowering the cut the whole piece came at me and shoked me up like a rag doll! 
But I was tied in good. Guess I should have used pulleys in the rigging set up......


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## Bermie (Nov 14, 2012)

Guran said:


> Well, it happened to me this weekend. I was cutting a big part of a limb. Had it rigged through my porta wrap, then trough two natural crotches.
> The groundie only had one turn of the rigging rope on the PW but the crotches pinched the rigging rope. Instead of lowering the cut the whole piece came at me and shoked me up like a rag doll!
> But I was tied in good. Guess I should have used pulleys in the rigging set up......



Good outcome...glad you are ok!
One of mine was taking too big a piece off the end of a long, long branch...the remainder jumped up like 3' I ended up below it and the cut piece walloped me on the head on the way down. Helmet, high tie in, lanyard...embarassing but not much more! I knew I should have gone a bit further out...


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## smokey01 (Nov 17, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> A guy got used to attaching his rigging line to the side of his harness, just a half hitch. One day, it got pulled into the chipper and ripped him out of the tree, he fell 38 feet landing 20' feet from the spar he was in. Lived, but............


This account was from a certified instructor at a SherrillTree conference. The guy on the ground heard the chipper stall, looked up to see the climber in the tree but he was not there anymore as he was yanked from the tree. The rigging line won the tug-a-war. I can see how it could happen, the rigging line by its very nature is going to be close to the chipper and the guys working there are human. 

The instructors recommendation, make a breakaway clip for such things.
...and why not? for the few cents it costs to take this precaution I can see little reason not to but I do not have the experience most guys here have. 

Sherrilltree also sells a breakaway lanyard for the chainsaw, just in case it wants to go somewhere you don't want to, does not cost much more.
Breakaway Bungee Chainsaw Lanyard by Buckingham


Photo of simple breakaway lanyard using small piece of throw line.


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## Bermie (Nov 17, 2012)

I broke a breakaway lanyard this summer...overlap was too big on a palm I was chunking down, luckily I was in a bucket and the layard was clipped to the bucket...the whole lot went to the ground, chunk, 200t, lanyard, the lot. It left a little stub of lanyard and my clip...
Totally my fault, bad cut, bad push, hot and in a hurry.
If I had been spiking that palm, it could have been scary, would have been a big jerk on me, breakaway lanyard or not.


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## Norwayclimber (Nov 18, 2012)

Bermie said:


> I broke a breakaway lanyard this summer...overlap was too big on a palm I was chunking down, luckily I was in a bucket and the layard was clipped to the bucket...the whole lot went to the ground, chunk, 200t, lanyard, the lot. It left a little stub of lanyard and my clip...
> Totally my fault, bad cut, bad push, hot and in a hurry.
> If I had been spiking that palm, it could have been scary, would have been a big jerk on me, breakaway lanyard or not.



Oh thats bad, I hope 200t survived ;-)

Daggi, where are you located?


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## Daggi (Nov 20, 2012)

M & r


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## Bermie (Nov 21, 2012)

Norwayclimber said:


> Oh thats bad, I hope 200t survived ;-)
> 
> Daggi, where are you located?



Haha, yes, it landed in the brush pile!


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## pdqdl (Nov 21, 2012)

Guran said:


> Well, it happened to me this weekend. I was cutting a big part of a limb. Had it rigged through my porta wrap, then trough two natural crotches.
> The groundie only had one turn of the rigging rope on the PW but the crotches pinched the rigging rope. Instead of lowering the cut the whole piece came at me and shoked me up like a rag doll!
> But I was tied in good. Guess I should have used pulleys in the rigging set up......



I had that happen to me once. Just running through a narrow crotch, the log couldn't come down. It came around the side of the trunk and knocked me off my perch...then it proceeded to beat on me some more on the bottom side of the leaning trunk. Broke a couple of ribs, and a bit sore. Fine otherwise.

It pays to not use a narrow crotch for natural rigging!


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## treemanbrisbane (Nov 23, 2012)

Your saw shouldn't be cutting by the time you put it down beside you on your lanyard. You might want to put in a new set of clutch springs if it is.

As for communicating, after you've been working with the same crew for long enough, 1. you know what they are thinking, and 2 you have signals for everything. Otherwise we yell. It would be nice to have some sort of headset, though, if anyone has some answers for that.


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## Guran (Nov 24, 2012)

> It pays to not use a narrow crotch for natural rigging!



Yep. I guess I found that out the hard way....


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