# New Chain saw just STOPPED



## RikBrooks (Sep 6, 2010)

I've just started milling. Got me a big SOLO 94 cc saw. I managed to get one hickory board sawed and yesterday as I was almost done with the second the chain came off. I put the chain back on and the cord just wouldn't pull. I mean not even close.

Normally I can slowly pull and although it is stiff I can get it to move. This time there's a noise like the wheel that the rope winds around has something stopping it. It sounds purposeful even. 

Y'all have any ideas? For the full story here's my blog about this weekend.

http://texasmob.com/rikbrooks/?p=224


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## gemniii (Sep 6, 2010)

RikBrooks said:


> I've just started milling. Got me a big SOLO 94 cc saw. I managed to get one hickory board sawed and yesterday as I was almost done with the second the chain came off. I put the chain back on and the cord just wouldn't pull. I mean not even close.
> 
> Normally I can slowly pull and although it is stiff I can get it to move. This time there's a noise like the wheel that the rope winds around has something stopping it. It sounds purposeful even.
> 
> ...


You have got to do some more research on this site.


> Instead I get the wood smoking. I know what that is. I took the chain saw out of the wood and took off the mill. I looked down and sure enough the bar is upside down. There is writing on the bar and it was upside down.


Bars are meant to be turned over, about every time you take a chain off to sharpen. Smoking might be because the chain was dull. I was "touching up" my chain about every 10' of 20" wide red maple.

Have you sharpened your chain?

As far as the lockup, take off the muffler and look at the piston, is it "scored" ? Look over on the chainsaw forum for pictures. If it's scored you might have siezed the engine (locked up the piston by running it to lean). This isn't a killer problem, it might just require a new piston & rings and cleaning the cylinder.


I realize you want to do CSM but if you really want to mill hickory BSM might be the way to go. Woodmizer offers a decent BSM for $3K, Hud-Son for $2.2K and Harbor freight has just put out a new one (which MIGHT be a clone of the woodmizer) for $2K.

To me CSM really excels when you are dropping the tree, milling, and using the wood where it's difficult to get a BSM to OR you are doing wood bigger than what a BSM can do.

For instance - for a decent CSM setup you need $500 of used saw and $300 of accessories,( bars and chain, mill, files, etc.). 

Now for a little more than twice as much you get the Hud-Son Oscar 118.

When I first started looking a t managing my Mississippi forestland I wanted a BSM, but they all started at about $5K. I think they waited until I invested in my Mark II until they dropped the price


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## RikBrooks (Sep 6, 2010)

I've only gotten about 15' out of the saw. It doesn't need sharpening. I can feel the sharp side.

Thanks for the tip about turning over the bar. Just learned another thing.

One of the reasons that I like the csm is that I can get as much free wood as I want. In North Mississippi there are trees that came down all the time and people are begging for others to come take them away. I was hoping to do that.

I'll check the piston but I ran it exactly as the manual said.


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## BobL (Sep 6, 2010)

RikBrooks said:


> Y'all have any ideas?



It does sound like the saw has seized, the click you are hearing is just the starter engaging on the flywheel.

Some questions:
Is this a new saw and if so was the new saw "running in"? ie How many tanks of mix did you use with the saw off the mill before putting in on the mill? 
Was the saw specifically tuned for milling? Running a big saw without it being richened up is asking for problems.

On reading your detailed blog it sure sounds like you are making very heavy weather of learning how to CSM. I think part of your problem it that learning to chainsaw mill on Hickory is like trying to start elementary school in grade 4. I guess this might be a red rag to a southern gent, but, have you thought about selling the saw and mill and buying some lumber


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## sachsmo (Sep 6, 2010)

My first thought was, when you put the chain back on that you may have not got it fully seated in the rim sprocket (perhaps it is wedged between the rim and drum). I have done this in the past.


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## teatersroad (Sep 6, 2010)

Sir. I fear for that nice saw. From what I draw from your blog, the chain was also on backwards. These are pretty elemental sop's for chainsaw use. To paraphrase BobL, You chose to take drivers ed. at the Indy 500. Slow down and read up. This is a good place for that. I thought you might have got off with a bound chain, but it does sort of sound like a seize. If so, you are out a repair for that. I would not dog that saw, first rate and extremely unlikely it was defective. All signs point to the operator so far. Don't sweat it, just step up to it.


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## betterbuilt (Sep 6, 2010)

I had similar experience that turned out to be the bearing in the clutch exploded. 

Another thing is the chain might be have some hammer marks not allowing the chain to move.

You may have sheared the the flywheel key or broken the clutch.


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## teatersroad (Sep 6, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> I had similar experience that turned out to be the bearing in the clutch exploded.
> 
> Another thing is the chain might be have some hammer marks not allowing the chain to move.
> 
> You may have sheared the the flywheel key or broken the clutch.



he says he tried it with B&C off, still no pull. I hope it's nothing, but a timeout is called for in any case. That or damned the torpedoes, run out and buy a new 880.


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## discounthunter (Sep 6, 2010)

pull the plug(to get rid of any compression),then pull the muffler to look at the piston.if by a slim chance the piston looks good,remove the starter recoil,to see if it is the culprit. if not remove the flywheel to check it next.you should have it narrowed down by this stage. 

good luck,unfortunately this is the ugly side of milling saws(actually any saw)


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## BobL (Sep 6, 2010)

teatersroad said:


> he says he tried it with B&C off, still no pull. I hope it's nothing, *but a timeout is called for in any case.* That or damned the torpedoes, run out and buy a new 880.



Unless a new 880 is treated with some respect, ie run in and tuned right for milling, hickory is just as likely do the same thing to it as it and the operator did to the big Solo.

I guess we all make mistakes, it's how we recover from them that determines how much we learn and what direction we move onto. Only 4 years ago while using my BILs 34 year old Mac 10-10 with a 16" bar to mill my ~5th small (12" diam x 3ft long) log it dropped a little end and made a real mess of the inside. Based on the age and poor treatment of that saw during its whole miserable life I guess it was lucky to survive that long. But at that point I still timed out, spent time reading (mainly this site) and listening (there is a difference) and talking to experienced CS millers. I'm probably luckier than some because I am also able to dig in and dredge up some of the dormant CS knowledge base handed over by hanging around my old school timber faller dad many moons ago.


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## teatersroad (Sep 6, 2010)

BobL said:


> Unless a new 880 is treated with some respect, ie run in and tuned right for milling, hickory is just as likely do the same thing to it as it and the operator did to the big Solo.



I apologize for my sarcasm, that's all it was.


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## cat10ken (Sep 6, 2010)

This might seem rather elementary; but is the chain brake locked on?

My step-son bought a nearly new saw a a garage sale that the owner couldn't get started and when he got it home, found out it was the brake.

It could be as simple as this.

Also as someone mentioned, when the chain came off on the first board it could have caused some burrs on the drive links causing it to pull hard and get hot.

Good luck


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## BobL (Sep 6, 2010)

cat10ken said:


> This might seem rather elementary; but is the chain brake locked on?
> 
> My step-son bought a nearly new saw a a garage sale that the owner couldn't get started and when he got it home, found out it was the brake.
> 
> ...



The saw was still locked up with the B&C removed.


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## mrbentontoyou (Sep 6, 2010)

BobL said:


> Was the saw specifically tuned for milling? Running a big saw without it being richened up is asking for problems.



would anyone care to elaborate on this; i.e. how rich is rich enough, and how to tell where you're at in the first place? i am also a "newbie" with a csm, and although everything has been going fine so far, i'm always hungry for more info. 

-roger


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## mtngun (Sep 6, 2010)

RikiBrooks, if I lived close to you, I'd come over and spend a day or two milling with you until I was sure you had the basics under control. 

I can remember buying my first chainsaw less than 10 years ago and learning by making mistakes, because there was no one around to mentor me. I'm still making mistakes, and still learning, but at least I get some help from the great guys on AS.  

At any rate, I started out with a $75 disposable saw. If you are going to make mistakes, better to make them on a $75 saw rather than an expensive milling saw.

Yes, a chainsaw mill is a handy thing to have, but milling saws require lots of maintenance and TLC. If you enjoying turning a wrench and solving problems, great. If not, this is going to be a very expensive and frustrating venture for you.


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## mtngun (Sep 6, 2010)

mrbentontoyou said:


> how rich is rich enough, and how to tell where you're at in the first place?


The answer depends on whether you ask on the milling forum or on the chainsaw forum. 

Since this is the milling forum, I say the factory WOT (wide open throttle) RPM spec is a good place to start. 

If you have a good ear -- not all of us do -- you can learn to judge the state of tune just by sound. That's what they will tell you over on the chainsaw forum. What they don't tell you is that it took them years to get good at tuning by ear.


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## huskyhank (Sep 7, 2010)

If your saw does not have an RPM limiting coil or a governor built into the carburetor, you can tune by ear pretty easily. If your saw has either, its harder if not impossible.

Warm up the saw well, make some cuts to get it hot. Then while holding the throttle wide open, saw sitting on the ground or a log, turn the high speed screw until the saw blubbers or four strokes, then turn it back a bit until it stops blubbering. Don't run it wide open for long with no load. Turn the screw one way and the saw gets faster (leaner), the other slower (rich). If your saw is running fine now you do not want it any leaner than it is.

Turn the screw 1/16 of a turn back toward where it blubbered and make some cuts. If it blubbers and never stops blubbering while cutting its too rich and you need to turn it out a tiny bit. If it blubbers at the start but then clears out in the cut you're just right. (the rich side of just right)

Important - too lean a setting and you kill your saw. If you have a decent saw shop ask them to show you how or let you watch and listen to them do it.


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## mtngun (Sep 7, 2010)

huskyhank said:


> turn the high speed screw until the saw blubbers or four strokes


You make it sound easy, but not everyone can clearly distinguish the transition to blubbering. Sometimes I can, other times I'm not so sure. I've never had a good ear for tone. Personally, I feel more comfortable using a tach.


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## huskyhank (Sep 7, 2010)

I've never had a tach for a saw but it might be nice. 

Its pretty easy to set a saw (unlimited or ungoverned) to blubber and then back off just a tiny bit. I think the problem comes when trying to set it too "finely". Just back off of blubber is good and be happy. Plug look a little touch dark? OK by me if the saw runs well.

I could see a tach being very useful to get that last RPM. But I would keep the question in the back of my head "are the numbers right - or is it just too lean?" Different fuel, different oil, different elevation, temperature, humidity, etc. leave me doubting tuning to a number. What is the reference for all those and what is the adjustment to make for any changes?"

Not arguing, just thinking out loud.


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## BobL (Sep 7, 2010)

RE: Tuning
I reckon you guys have it covered.


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## BobL (Sep 7, 2010)

teatersroad said:


> I apologize for my sarcasm, that's all it was.



No offense taken - I knew what you meant  I just hate seeing good money thrown around without solving root problems.


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