# Need shotgun recomendations.



## nilzlofgren (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm in the market for a new shotgun. I was looking at the Remington 870, and the Mossberg 930/935. The 930/935 series are auto loaders. I think I'd like an auto loader, unless you guys can steer me in a better direction. My budget is about $600. I'd like a 20 gauge, and my main use would be skeet/ target shooting, and home defense if need be. Also, I'm not a fan of wood/ wood grain. I like black. Thoughts?


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 11, 2009)

A 870 is going to be hard to beat, you can get a 28-30" bbl for bird/target use and a 18 1/2" for home defense. Just depends if you want a pump. I got a house gun 870 and a Browning BPS in full camo with a 3 1/2" chamber, both great guns. 12ga though.

For auto loaders, I have a CZ-720 camo, it's their 20 ga. auto and has been trouble free after 3000 shells. A Rem 11-87 in 20ga. would be nice also but I'm not sure you can get a short bbl for a house gun.


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## tree md (Apr 11, 2009)

I've got an old 870 20 Gauge that I've had for years. 28" modified. It's been a rock solid gun.


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## ShoerFast (Apr 12, 2009)

Wore out an Ithaca learning to shoot as a kid. Raked empty hulls everywhere i heard a shotgun going off and did a lot of reloading to stretch paper-route money, paper shells were the norm. 

In the early 80's , Chrysler Motors gave me a Browning BPS as a gift for maintaining a high customer satisfaction rating, really an honer for me, but I never really fell in love with the BPS.

Shot the stuffing out of a Remington mod. #58 thousands of rounds through the years digested in 870's 1100's and shot a few 1157's . 

Recantlly got a Benelli Nova in a 3 1/2" and already love it as much as my childhood Ithaca! 

I think you sort of get what you pay for in shotguns, fit and feel are as big a part of it as the price. 

If you pick a shotgun up off a gun-rack and look at a possible target , close your eyes and ready the gun, when you open your eyes, you should be looking right down the barrel, rib (vented rib) and the bead(s), lined up on target, no exceptions or excuses. 

Anymore, I think Benelli makes a lot of shotgun for the buck, but being happy with what you get is the bottom line. 

Tom Knapp with a couple reasons you need a Benelli (fun video!) Youtube link:

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## valekbrothers (Apr 12, 2009)

Check out the Charles Daly Field Hunter.
3" Auto, choke tubes, synthetic very nice looking gun. I have one in 12 ga. 
I think they run around $400 new. Not sure on price, I have had mine for a few years.............. Hope they still sell them.....

Here is a link for some info: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/224/products_id/81358


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## dingeryote (Apr 12, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> I'm in the market for a new shotgun. I was looking at the Remington 870, and the Mossberg 930/935. The 930/935 series are auto loaders. I think I'd like an auto loader, unless you guys can steer me in a better direction. My budget is about $600. I'd like a 20 gauge, and my main use would be skeet/ target shooting, and home defense if need be. Also, I'm not a fan of wood/ wood grain. I like black. Thoughts?



Why 20ga?

12's are much more versitile for what you are planning, weigh about the same, and with the right loads you can drop recoil to almost nil.


Benelli Nova- Just a plain solid pumpgun with unusually good fit for most.

The 870 is a legend. No flies, lotsa aftermarket support with upgrades.
The 870 is the chevy small block of the shotgun world.
Check Gunsamerica, gunbroker, and the others for some deals on used 870's.
They CANNOT be worn out, just worn.

Mossberg M590A1- Take the barrel to your gunsmith and have him cut it for Colonial thin wall choke tubes. It will be the ONE shotgun masterplan.
The only shotgun on the market Proven(Aberdeen) MORE reliable than the 870 is the 590A1 Mil. http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=26&section=products.
Used to be you had to catch a L.E. special order or get a hook up for parts to upgrade to the Mil model but Mossberg is now selling them OTC.
The come drilled and tapped for mounts, and Ghost rings are optional.
Throw a Trijicon front sight on it, and you'll never need anything else.

In 20ga, the old Ithica 37 was an upland game dream when properly cut to LOP. For me, only an old Parker double 16 my Gramps had pointed better.
Ithica is gone though, and the series of new Ithica's pale in comparison to the old.

In The auto's there really is Benelli, and the others..they all are nice, some more reliable than others, but for now, Benelli has things locked down solid.

Get a bit frugal about it, and an older 1100 ain't a bad option either.
Just not as flexible as the newer auto's.

Hope this helps.

Stay safe! 
Dingeryote


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## WVwoodsman (Apr 13, 2009)

Another thumbs up for the 870! I bought mine brand new about 12 years ago and I love it. It didn't break the bank either. I have for some time been meaning to get a slug barrel and a 18 1/2 barrel. I have used this gun for deer hunting turkey hunting and shooting clays and it has never missed a beat. I can fire 2 3/4 as well as 3 in. mag shells too. There are a lot of variations such as synthetic stock and wood. Stainless models and blued. Overall a great gun for the money!


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 13, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Why 20ga?
> 
> 12's are much more versitile for what you are planning, weigh about the same, and with the right loads you can drop recoil to almost nil.
> 
> ...



Your right about the 20ga. been thinking about it, 12 is the way to go. I'm probably going to go with the 870. A friend recommended a Browning A5. Says their great, but I think its out of my price range.


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## mercer_me (Apr 14, 2009)

I have a Mosburge turkey gun and I love and I'm going to buy a Mosburge goose gun this summer.


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

Stopped by the gun dealer, and after he saw that I'm a southpaw, he recommended a Browning BPS. They seem like nice guns. Any thoughts?


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## Taxmantoo (Apr 16, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> Stopped by the gun dealer, and after he saw that I'm a southpaw, he recommended a Browning BPS. They seem like nice guns. Any thoughts?



Two questions a southpaw should always ask himself:

Does it eject out the bottom?
If not, does it bother you to see a 12ga hull fly past your face?

Does it have a tang safety?
If not, can you take apart the crossbolt safey and reverse it?


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 16, 2009)

I got a BPS and love it, the shells flying out of the bottom is weird after shooting a 870 for years...

It is a good shotty though, built and handles well also. How it handles varies depending on what bbl ya get but mine with a 26" is sweet.


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## LD1 (Apr 16, 2009)

For a pump I like the mossberg 500 or 835. good solid gun.

That being said Beretta makes a darn fine autoloader. 

I was able to pick one up used at a gun swap meet for $350. It's a siver mallard 390A. It is a 12ga and synthetic.

I have also heard good about the 11-87 and 1100 remingtons


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## JONSEREDFAN6069 (Apr 16, 2009)

I HAVE A GAMBA DAYTONA 5E, YOU DONT WANNA KNOW WHAT IT'S WORTH. I DIDN'T PAY FOR IT. IT WAS A GIFT FROM MY GRANDFATHER.
BUT MAN IS IT SHWEEEEEEET. I'D NEVER PAY THIS MUCH FOR A SHOT 
GUN. THIS ONE ISN'T MINE BUT IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME.


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> I got a BPS and love it, the shells flying out of the bottom is weird after shooting a 870 for years...
> 
> It is a good shotty though, built and handles well also. How it handles varies depending on what bbl ya get but mine with a 26" is sweet.



Here's the gun. 12Ga 3 1/2" 26" barrel $649.00 plus three choke tubes
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=011B&cat_id=012&type_id=227


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 16, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> Here's the gun. 12Ga 3 1/2" 26" barrel $649.00 plus three choke tubes
> http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=011B&cat_id=012&type_id=227



The exact friggin one I have, LOL. That duratouch is nice, feels like velvet.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 16, 2009)

I say 870. Several of them in my family. they are rock solid, never had any problems. Great shooting, so reliable.


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> The exact friggin one I have, LOL. That duratouch is nice, feels like velvet.



Well, than you must tell me all about it. I'm drooling over it. But, my wife insists that I wait until my birthday. Than, she will buy it for me.


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> I say 870. Several of them in my family. they are rock solid, never had any problems. Great shooting, so reliable.



I went into the store looking at the 870. The guy saw I was a lefty, and recommended the BPS.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 16, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> I went into the store looking at the 870. The guy saw I was a lefty, and recommended the BPS.



Why exactly? Whats the price difference?


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> Why exactly? Whats the price difference?



Why did I want the 870? Or why did he recommend the BPS?
I researched, and concluded that the 870 was the 361 of pump guns. But, the shells will be ejected at my face. So, he recommended the Browning. Since the BPS ejects from the bottom, its great for me. The 870 was high $400's for the matte black. The BPS was $519 for matte black, and $649 for the Mossy Oak camo.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 16, 2009)

Oh yeah, i forgot about the ejection. I just figured he might have wanted to sell a higher priced gun.


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> Oh yeah, i forgot about the ejection. I just figured he might have wanted to sell a higher priced gun.



He said he would sell me the 870, even said they come left handed -at a higher price. He mentioned though, that if I ever wanted to sell it, it's harder to find buyers for left handed guns.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 16, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> He said he would sell me the 870, even said they come left handed -at a higher price. He mentioned though, that if I ever wanted to sell it, it's harder to find buyers for left handed guns.



that is true. I love 870's, i was hopin to turn someone else onto one. But if i thought i ever wanted to sell it, i would et the browning, cause it would be hard to get rid of a lefty.


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## spankrz (Apr 16, 2009)

the best target gun for that price range is a older remmington 870 wingmaster, but they are all woodgrain. the newer 870's are good too. i have both, and they are great guns. the newer ones you can get a 
black synthetic stock.


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 16, 2009)

spankrz said:


> the best target gun for that price range is a older remmington 870 wingmaster, but they are all woodgrain. the newer 870's are good too. i have both, and they are great guns. the newer ones you can get a
> black synthetic stock.



I think the 870 that he had, was an express.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 16, 2009)

I bought an 870 express 3" syn stock about 8 years ago for 242 including tax. Saved up grass cutting money all summer for it. Sold it to my dad. He has three now.


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## dingeryote (Apr 16, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> Why did I want the 870? Or why did he recommend the BPS?
> I researched, and concluded that the 870 was the 361 of pump guns. But, the shells will be ejected at my face. So, he recommended the Browning. Since the BPS ejects from the bottom, its great for me. The 870 was high $400's for the matte black. The BPS was $519 for matte black, and $649 for the Mossy Oak camo.



Nilz,

You're a southpaw? LOL! So am I. 
The 870 wont eject emptys into your face. I dunno how many thousands of rounds I have through an 870 and Mossy M590A1's and NEVER have I been hit in the face.

What IS extremely irritating to the point of wanting to break things, is the STOOOPID safety on the 870. It's backwards for us Leftys.

The Mossberg 500/590 family have the safety on the the top of the reciever hump as does the Browning BPS WHERE IT BELONGS!!!

Between the BPS and the 500/590 family, the BPS has a higher grade of fit and finish, but the 500 has better aftermarket support and lower initial pricing.

In thier defence, Remy does make a LH 870, and aftermarket lefty safetys are available for the RH guns.

Actually, the RH ejection port is an ADVANTAGE to the southpaw.
You can chamber check from the shoulder, conduct select slug drills without contorting from the shoulder, and single load from the shoulder without wierd contortions.

The only disadvantage of the Southpaw shooting a RH pumpgun is in the matter of a catastrophic failure/small discharge that ruptures the shotshell case head. The extractor and high pressure gasses then have a potential open path to your noggin. Thankfully, it is a rare occurance and even then most of the gasses and chunks of metal take the easier way out by going downward past the shell elevator.

I like the BPS myself, Good shotgun. But it is limited in it's flexibility by a lack of aftermarket support. 
Then again, why restrict yourself to just one shotgun?LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Rogerrabbit (Apr 16, 2009)

*REMINGTON vs. BROWNING*

Ok, figured I may as well throw my two cents in here......
I have shot left handed all my life.......never could afford the higher prices of the left handed guns, (not really worth the extra price), and it is true about being harder to sell a left handed gun for what it's worth. But, it's kind of like a car dealer told me once.....if you wait long enough, you will find an a##hole for every seat.
Both the remington and brownings are good guns, the fact that the shell ejects by your face, is rather irrelevant (you get used to it quick)not that big a deal). Of all the years shooting my 870, the only ejection problem I encountered was when I put some old paper shells in it, the powder did burn a bit when it discharged.....but the paper shells are a thing of the past. I say for you to try them both out before buying either of them. You may find that you don't like either one and want an over / under instead.......
It sucks living in a right handed world !
GO LEFTYS !!!!!


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## tree md (Apr 16, 2009)

Another lefty here. At least when it comes to shooting. Kind of a funny story about that. My dad had a shotgun for me by the time I was born. Shot my first shotgun at 4 and killed my first squirrel at 7. I started shooting so young that I could not wink my left eye to aim. I had to shoot lefty to aim when I was a kid. I know that they teach to shoot with both eyes open these days but when I was a kid I was taught to aim with one eye and could only shoot off of my left shoulder to do that. I have hunted with the Remington Sportsman's 58 auto, Winchester model 12 pump, Winchester model 42 pump, Remington 870 pump, Remington 742 auto, Remington 7400 auto, Savage 12 gauge pump (can't remember model number) and a Glenfield 22 auto. All right handed models. I can shoot off of both shoulders these days but I still prefer lefty and I have had zero problems hunting with a right handed model. Only time I have had to order a left handed gun was when I started muzzleloading with a side lock and had to order a left handed .50 cal Renegade because I couldn't see past the hammer to sight with the right handed model. I wouldn't let the fact that you are lefty deter you from any gun you choose to purchase.

Best of luck!


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## TimberMcPherson (Apr 18, 2009)

I have to say Im a fan of the 870. A classic that just doesnt date.


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## scotclayshooter (Apr 18, 2009)

JONSEREDFAN6069 said:


> I HAVE A GAMBA DAYTONA 5E, YOU DONT WANNA KNOW WHAT IT'S WORTH. I DIDN'T PAY FOR IT. IT WAS A GIFT FROM MY GRANDFATHER.
> BUT MAN IS IT SHWEEEEEEET. I'D NEVER PAY THIS MUCH FOR A SHOT
> GUN. THIS ONE ISN'T MINE BUT IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME.



OOOOOH thats nice The Gamba's seem better finished and have better wood than Perrazzi's of late!

There was a steal of a deal on new Daytonas here a few years ago £2000 for the plain model! I wish I had bought one now they are £4500!


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## nilzlofgren (Apr 18, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Nilz,
> 
> You're a southpaw? LOL! So am I.
> The 870 wont eject emptys into your face. I dunno how many thousands of rounds I have through an 870 and Mossy M590A1's and NEVER have I been hit in the face.
> ...



I went and shot a buddies 870 today, and your right Dinger, nothing hit me in the face. I also went back to the gun shop, and scrutinized 870 and the BPS a little more. Also made note of the safety on the BPS. All things considered though, the 870 might be the better gun, with better aftermarket support, but I'm gonna go with the BPS. I do appreciate everyones thoughts and help.


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## spankrz (Apr 18, 2009)

took my 870 20ga in the woods this mornin. busted a tom at 45 yards, it fell right to the ground lol.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 19, 2009)

spankrz said:


> took my 870 20ga in the woods this mornin. busted a tom at 45 yards, it fell right to the ground lol.



45yds for a 20 is pretty far...


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## scotclayshooter (Apr 19, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> 45yds for a 20 is pretty far...



It only takes 1 lucky pellet!
The pellets coming out of a 20 are doing the same speed as a 12 just that theres less of them!
Me and a buddy were out one day and he popped a Goose standing in a field at 75 yards! with a 36 Gramme Winchester superspeed #1, It just folded its wings and fell on the spot!
Were breaking clays at over 45 yards with steel #7s and breaking them well!


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Apr 19, 2009)

Hey, i'd stick to a 12 gauge for versatility. Hard hitting and rounds are really cheaper than 20 ga from what i've seen. Personally i own only mossberg shotguns, but respect and have shot nearly all brands. Keep in mind that the U.S. Marine Corps as of last year was only using mossberg mariner pumps(salt water proof). In fact mossberg has had the contract since beginning of vietnam when winchester pumps couldn't take the abuse from the jungles. Brownings and berettas shoot well but are pricey. I'd get a mossberg pump,28" barrel, vented rib, adj chocke tubes, and only be out 250-400 stick the rest where it belongs right now...in your savings acct. Best of luck


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## nilzlofgren (Jun 12, 2009)

I picked up my BPS today. 12 gauge, 31/2, 26" barrel, Mossy Oak new Break up. I'll have pics this weekend.


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## dingeryote (Jun 12, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> I picked up my BPS today. 12 gauge, 31/2, 26" barrel, Mossy Oak new Break up. I'll have pics this weekend.





New shotgun{snoopy dance}, New Shotgun, wooo hoooo!!!

Did you have the shop cut it to your LOP and install a better than factory pad?

The BPS and the Remmies are both made to fit Sasquatch IMO.LOL!!
Throw on a heavy coat and they both are crazy too long for most.

There's nothing like that New gun smell!!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## nilzlofgren (Jun 13, 2009)

> Did you have the shop cut it to your LOP and install a better than factory pad?


I didn't know that could be done. Maybe a gunsmith can. I've heard of a limb saver pad. Are they any good?


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## scotclayshooter (Jun 13, 2009)

Its the same in Europe the stocks on Brownings are over long, But thats a good thing and easy to shorten.
I use Kickeez pads
http://www.kickeezproducts.com/

They make a difference in how quick you recover from the recoil and help get the second shot away quicker.

A slide chopsaw with a fine blade works really well, You cut halfway through from the top pulling and then finish the cut by going to the bottom and pushing the saw back, It makes a nice clean cut with no splinters.


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## dingeryote (Jun 14, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> I didn't know that could be done. Maybe a gunsmith can. I've heard of a limb saver pad. Are they any good?



Nilz,

It's a common an pretty cheap job for most 'smiths.
Fitting pads is the iffy part for do it yourselfers, but isn't bad if ya go slow and sneak up on it.

Limb saver pads are ok. I'm partial to the kickeez and decellerators though.
I like grinding the decellerators better cuz they have a "Feel" I'm used to, and can be polished up so they don't "Grab" the shirt when mounting.

A good smith will measure your LOP for ya, and make suggestions on pitch etc. On hollow synthetic stocks it can require some creativity, but can be done. Ask your local 'smith if he does fitting. Should only cost about 50 bucks plus the pad.

Stay safe!
Dngeryote


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## dingeryote (Jun 14, 2009)

scotclayshooter said:


> Its the same in Europe the stocks on Brownings are over long, But thats a good thing and easy to shorten.
> I use Kickeez pads
> http://www.kickeezproducts.com/
> 
> ...



Cheater!!!

I use a porta band freehand, and tape the stocks for a ref. line and to stop any splinters. That way I can add cast and pitch without going nuts with wedges on a fixture.

Plastic stocks....love 'em cuz they last forever. Hate 'em cuz they only can be adjusted so much without epoxy sculpting. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## nilzlofgren (Jun 14, 2009)

OK, now should I go with pre fit, grind to fit, or slip over. Also, if the stock gets shortened, doesn't that leave a smaller foot print to rest against my shoulder, creating more felt recoil?


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## nilzlofgren (Jun 14, 2009)

Here are some pics.


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## 2000ssm6 (Jun 14, 2009)

I hope you have shot a 3-1/2" before because that shotgun will rock your socks off. Between my BPS(like yours) and a 870, the 870 felt a little better but both are rough! Mine has the factory stock and recoil pad though. Let me know what you end up replacing yours with.


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## dingeryote (Jun 15, 2009)

nilzlofgren said:


> OK, now should I go with pre fit, grind to fit, or slip over. Also, if the stock gets shortened, doesn't that leave a smaller foot print to rest against my shoulder, creating more felt recoil?



Nilz,

The BPS has some nice lines. I have always liked them for hunting gun.

On the pads....

Slipovers are a PITA. Disregard what the ad copy says, they slip around on the stock, they have the same asthetic appeal as a goiter on a really pretty girl, and will add LOP to an already too long stock.
They are a good option to lengthen a stock that is too short, or for mounting on a gun you wish to keep 100% original but ain't into steel or bakelite butt plates.

If you are gonna have the stock cut to fit you, go with the grind to fit. It will be oversized and
the toe will be at a 90 degree angle for grinding to match your stock once it's cut down.

If you are gonna leave it alone, go with the pre-fit.

One suggestion for ya(And 2000), if you're gonna be shooting trap or lots of recreational shooting, blind hunting, and not much upland slogging about with the gun in hand, add some weight into the butt, or add a inertia dampener.
Neither will reduce recoil, but increase the time over which the impact is delivered, leading to a lighter "Felt" recoil on the shoulder.

It is surprising how effective 6oz of extra weight is.

Also with the hollow polymer stocks, the balance is very muzzle heavy, which can lead to over swinging and overmounting.
A bit of weight in the butt livens up the muzzle noticeably.

To find how much weight you will need to your tastes, simply toss fishing sinkers into the butt cavity, and re-attach the buttpad, repeating untill you find your perfect amount. Just do several Mounts and swings each time.
Then weigh the amount you like. From there it's a simple matter of epoxying the same weight into the void in the stock. 

Takes the sting outta 3.5" Heavy goose loads.

Best of luck to ya!!
Dingeryote


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## lisapizza (Jun 15, 2009)

Remington 870 ~ Check out you-tube To see how easy the 870`s dissemble to maintain and clean. Plus parts, extra barrels readily available.

Peace


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## ents (Jun 15, 2009)

Just a quick note about the 870-- I bought a LEFT handed model for my wife, and EVERYTHING is reverse to facilitate the left handed person. Shells do not go wizzing past your face, they eject from the left side, saftey is also reversed. Same price as the right hand model, just had to order it. Sadly she doesn't like the gun, too much punch so I carry it. I'm right handed and don't even notice the shells going past.

Someone mentioned resale on left handed models, I tried to sell this gun after wife said she wouldn't shoot it. Not much market out there. 

Gotta get one of those Benelli. I'm a terrible shot and need something that aims on it's own.


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