# Tillotson HL Carb Rebuild w/pics



## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

Well...this is a basic Carb rebuild I did on the Tillotson HL carb that is in my old Homelite Zip. It was very basic and straightforward. Since this carb was in really good shape, with not much trash in the inlet screen at all, I did not drill out the Welch plug and replace it. I have never replaced a Welch plug, and have had good success on my rebuilds.

This is just the way I rebuild saw carbs. Some of you may do it differently… with that being said there may be a step or 2 “missing”. But like I said… this works for me, and always has.

The Tillotson HL is the bread and butter carb for Tilly… It was prevalent on almost all the older big cc saws… Stihl, Homelite, McCulloch, Remington, Poulan (I think). I’m sure it was used in a lot of non-saw related applications as well. So I had a couple hours and a few beers on hand… so I thought I would make this little picture show while I rebuilt the HL.

You will need a rebuild kit, a service manual (from Tilly’s website), assorted flat blade screwdrivers, a 7/16” open end wrench, a small 5/16” socket (I used a ¼” drive), a small pick, a small pair of pliers, some carb cleaner, & compressed air. EZ-PZ and simple. The service manual tells you how to drill out the Welch plug and replace it. But like I said… I left it alone.

Hope this will help some of you out. Also if I miss anything that some of you think needs to be done… by all means point it out to me. Even though I have been doing this for years… I still learn new stuff… Most saw carbs have the basic parts internaly like the HL does. There will always be some sort of control lever, lever pin, spring, and needle and seat. So this little tutorial can help out in most cases.

There are a lot of pics (almost 60)... so sorry for you dial uppers. I was a dial upper until recently... so I know how you feel. So hopefully I'm not posting too many pics for the site. If so the mods can remove it or maybe we can consolodate the pics.

The pics are uploaded from photobucket website so I can directly imbed them. So enuff with the yappin'... on to the tutorial. 

Gary


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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

***


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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

;;;


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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

Last 8 pics...









































Well I hope someone can get something out of this deal... it took me a lot longer to edit the pics and upload them, than it did to actually rebuild the carb! 

Later fellas... I need a beer or 12!

Gary


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## Lakeside53 (Mar 15, 2008)

Excellent thread Gary!!! 


I was wondering what happened to that kit


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## huskydave (Mar 15, 2008)

You deserve lots of rep. This should become a sticky. It takes a lot of work to organize all those photos and you did a great job!


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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks you guys...  

Hey Andy... I need another kit if you got one. I have 2 more of these to rebuild...  

Gary


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## Jacob J. (Mar 15, 2008)

Nice job. I'll get you again when I get more bullets.


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## spacemule (Mar 15, 2008)

You ever thought about writing a book? The illustrations and detail are much better than many books I've seen.


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## belgian (Mar 15, 2008)

Very detailed explanation, Gary. No excuse anymore to get things wrong now  .

I normally do a pressure check after the rebuild, just to make sure (mostly with no complete rebuilds like this one), that the needle seating is OK.


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## Tzed250 (Mar 15, 2008)

Gary....this thread is what this place is all about. Rep for you when I get some bullets back. What an awesome job you did! 

Hope you enjoyed that beer...


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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

spacemule said:


> You ever thought about writing a book? The illustrations and detail are much better than many books I've seen.



Believe it or not Rexy... I have seriously thought about it.  

Going through a bunch of common small engine carbs (2 and 4 stroke) and just showing basic rebuild procedures.

I also do High Performance Holley 4bbl stuff too... carbs have always been my forte`.

It took me almost 2 days to edit the pics and put them in order and figure out what I wanted to say on each one. I think I took almost 200 pictures and narrowed it down to those you see here.

It normally takes me about an hour to do a thorough rebuild... this took me nearly 2 hours since I was taking pictures. 

I have other carbs to rebuild that I will do the same thing with. I posted this on another site and one of the guys took my pics and used them in a power point thingy so he could have it for his own quick reference.

Gary


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## dustytools (Mar 15, 2008)

Excellent post Gary!! Thanks.


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## troutfisher (Mar 15, 2008)

Nice work and thank you, this is the stuff I like to see.


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## mjbilbo (Mar 15, 2008)

this was a great post Gary. Very helpful to someone like me that has a C-5 that I am trying to keep running properly.

Mike

If I were only smart enough to figure out how to post some photos, I would put one up here

Very good job on the illistrations


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## Zodiac45 (Mar 15, 2008)

Outstanding post! Thanks for taking the time too edit and post it all Gary. 

Good idea on the metering lever. I would never of thought too use the old one due too the fork on the new one looking like it spears the end of the pin. I guess the new and old pins were just the same length.


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## Dok (Mar 15, 2008)

That took a lot of work, thanks Gary! 
Dok


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## crane (Mar 15, 2008)

JUST WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!!

Thanks a bunch for putting that together. I was about to ask someone some Tilly questions myself. That my friend is what makes this site so great!! One question I do have is ..."What tricks do you have to adjust that carb once you get it Running?" I have a 1-40 McCulloch, and I can get her running great, but she's a little hesitante when I demand some high end tourque from her. Any suggestions?
Great site
Drew


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## adkranger (Mar 15, 2008)

Nice work Gary. This is an excellent guide for someone doing one of those carbs. I have edited photos like that, so I appreciate the effort you put into this thread.........................100 times more effort than the actual rebuild.

I'm outta bullets for Gary too...................somebody hit this guy with rep please.:help:


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## ray benson (Mar 15, 2008)

The best I have seen. Awesome.


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## spacemule (Mar 15, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Believe it or not Rexy... I have seriously thought about it.
> 
> Going through a bunch of common small engine carbs (2 and 4 stroke) and just showing basic rebuild procedures.
> 
> I also do High Performance Holley 4bbl stuff too... carbs have always been my forte`.



I'd buy your book on Holleys. Very few books I've read are that detailed. That's almost as good as being there in person.


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## GASoline71 (Mar 15, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> Outstanding post! Thanks for taking the time too edit and post it all Gary.
> 
> Good idea on the metering lever. I would never of thought too use the old one due too the fork on the new one looking like it spears the end of the pin. I guess the new and old pins were just the same length.



The old levers almost always rode "on top" of the needle. The newer kits had you "spear" the needle in the groove on top. So you always had to readjust the new needle and lever. I tried using the old levers a few times with new needles riding "on top" and 99.99999% of the time the lever is in the exact same spot. So it saved a lot of hassle.

So if you ever do use the new lever with a new needle... make sure you bend the lever to make the correct height.

Thanks again everyone for the kind words. Like was said earlier by someone... "This is what this site is all about." That sums it up for me. I've been here a long time and just want to do my part...    

It's not all about "oil threads" and brand wars... 

Gary


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## doubletodd (Mar 15, 2008)

nice job!! good pics


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## jra1100 (Oct 4, 2008)

*Great Post*

I will be working on my old Zip soon, and this is one of the best "how to" posts that I have ever seen. Thanks to Brads thread I found this. As to the you should write a book, I vote yes. This is excellent work. If it is understandable to me, ANYONE can get it. Sending rep. JR


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## Fish (Oct 4, 2008)

Nice work. Just curious about the gloves. Do you always use them?

Or just on fuel/oil jobs?


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## Austin1 (Oct 4, 2008)

Great pic's and post I see your waring gloves the little ladies Idea? I know I ware gloves allot more now keeps the finger nails clean it matters to them lol I don't get heck any more.


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## Austin1 (Oct 4, 2008)

Fish said:


> Nice work. Just curious about the gloves. Do you always use them?
> 
> Or just on fuel/oil jobs?


I was wondering about that too you beet me to it .
P.S I think I know why.


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## GASoline71 (Oct 4, 2008)

Fish said:


> Nice work. Just curious about the gloves. Do you always use them?
> 
> Or just on fuel/oil jobs?





Austin1 said:


> Great pic's and post I see your waring gloves the little ladies Idea? I know I ware gloves allot more now keeps the finger nails clean it matters to them lol I don't get heck any more.



Yep, and Yep...

I never used to... but it is a loy nicer to be able to not have cud under the ol' fingernails, and have your hands smell like solvents or gasoline for 3 days...

Plus the girlie does appreciate it too... 

Gary


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## Fish (Oct 4, 2008)

At one of the later Stihl dealerships I worked at, the dist. rep. brought a
video representation of correct carb procedure on the new style trimmers,
and the "tech" in the video was wearing thick gloves, and I was joking
about wanting to see him rebuild the carb with those, and the dist. rep.
was pissed off.

Actually, I like rubber gloves when working on a nasty mower trans.

When I first started working on stuff, I was working in the pizza industry
during the evening hours,
and me "hand tossing" the dough kept my fingernails clean from all of the
grease and grime.


Keep away from "Little C well
never mind, I don't want any more corporate troubles


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## 7sleeper (Oct 4, 2008)

*Fantastic!!! Gary* 

Great post. Hope the book comes soon!

You should get a lot of rep for it.

7sleeper


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## RiverRat2 (Nov 9, 2008)

wow I missed this one,,, 

Great job Gary,,,, 

rep coming when I can,,,,

See what happens when you get busy!!!!


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## Jredsjeep (Nov 10, 2008)

i am glad this got brought back up, it was very cleanly done and will help when i decide to dig into my Zip. i was just keeping it for eye candy but might try to get it running sometime.

i think you could probubly add do not use gorrilla torque to the whole thing


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## ZeroJunk (Dec 2, 2008)

I rebuilt one of those on a 7-19C I had when I was 19 or 20 years old. It never ran worth a crap again.


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## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

Exceptional thread Gary!......Fantastic photos and details!......You deserve lots of rep! Unfortunately I'll have to wait to getcha .......


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 2, 2008)

I run a Tillotson HL314G on my Open Modified Honda GX-200 Kart engine. It's got the .890 Venturi, and 1.000" throttle bore. Great carbs, great for power!

I have to rebuild about every 5 running hours however, dont know why, we just have to rebuild them more often on 4 strokes...the metering dipahragm becomes very stretched. 

The only thing Im not sure about on your rebuild is why you arent using the new style captivated needle with the new style captivated metering level? They were in unison, great results doing it that way. I tried your way on accident the first time I rebuilt mine, and it wouldnt tune, even with the pop-off set at 10lbs, it wouldnt tune..

Also, why arent you setting your pop-off? Correct pop-off is the key to a tilly Being off by just a couple pounds can make it not run properly..lean out at high demands, flood at idle, etc.

If you ever want a good price on some stock kits, apskarting has a full array of all Tillotson HL and HG carb kits, from shutters, to kits, to pump bodys, carb bodys, inlets, screens (brass and SS). If you ever want to dabble in hopping one up...ecdistributing makes an array of trick parts for them, from a custom diaphragm that reacts faster, high flow needle and seat, trick pump skins, you name it! Also, if you ever want to talk to the Tillotson master, they have a forum where you can talk to E.C Birt himself.

Ive got a new Tilly on its way Im going to try out, I think it's a HL-388, could be an HL304WX..guy wasnt sure which he sent.


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## Scandy14 (Dec 2, 2008)

Does anybody have an HL series carburetor for sale that I can use on my McCulloch 1-70?


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 2, 2008)

Scandy14 said:


> Does anybody have an HL series carburetor for sale that I can use on my McCulloch 1-70?



The HL series covers a very broad range of carbs, some jetted/drilled for gas, some for alcohol, throttle bore size and Venturi size and shape varies greatly, as well as the throttle hook up, some have choke, some have no choke and no way to have a choke...

If you can give me some idea of about what should be on it....Mike Acres site just says "McCulloch" for carburetor.

Also, what part of NW florida are you in?


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## GASoline71 (Dec 3, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> I run a Tillotson HL314G on my Open Modified Honda GX-200 Kart engine. It's got the .890 Venturi, and 1.000" throttle bore. Great carbs, great for power!
> 
> I have to rebuild about every 5 running hours however, dont know why, we just have to rebuild them more often on 4 strokes...the metering dipahragm becomes very stretched.
> 
> ...



Ya know... about the lever... I never thought about it. This is always the way I had done it and it always worked for me. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "pop-off"... Could ya explain that one a little more to me. I'm interested to know... The term "pop-off" is something I have never heard for a saw carb... so it must be a cart thing... or I have just not heard it before... 

Hook us up mang! 

Gary


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## Jacob J. (Dec 3, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Ya know... about the lever... I never thought about it. This is always the way I had done it and it always worked for me.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "pop-off"... Could ya explain that one a little more to me. I'm interested to know... The term "pop-off" is something I have never heard for a saw carb... so it must be a cart thing... or I have just not heard it before...
> 
> ...



Gary- 'pop-off' is the pressure it takes for the metering diaphragm to actuate the inlet needle lever and open the inlet needle. How you 'set' the pop-off pressure is by using a different rate spring that goes under the lever itself. 

Walbro kits in the late '70's and '80's had several weights of springs in the kits.


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## GASoline71 (Dec 3, 2008)

Well... i just learned something new... Thanks Jacob! 

Yeah, there were no extra springs in the kit I got from Andy. Since I haven't really been into rebuilding saw carbs until the last 10 years or so... prolly why i never heard the term.

Thanks mang!

Gary


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## Scandy14 (Dec 3, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> The HL series covers a very broad range of carbs, some jetted/drilled for gas, some for alcohol, throttle bore size and Venturi size and shape varies greatly, as well as the throttle hook up, some have choke, some have no choke and no way to have a choke...
> 
> If you can give me some idea of about what should be on it....Mike Acres site just says "McCulloch" for carburetor.
> 
> Also, what part of NW florida are you in?




I have heard that a HL63 and HL19 will work, and not sure what others will work as well.

I am located in the Panama City area.


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 3, 2008)

Jacob J. said:


> Gary- 'pop-off' is the pressure it takes for the metering diaphragm to actuate the inlet needle lever and open the inlet needle. How you 'set' the pop-off pressure is by using a different rate spring that goes under the lever itself.
> 
> Walbro kits in the late '70's and '80's had several weights of springs in the kits.



Ya. Another way is to bend the tang on the metering arm, which in turn would have the effect of pre-loading the spring, and chainging spring rate.

I think of it this way...

The pop-off can make the saw super rich or super lean, you can play with pop-off and get it close....

Imagine pop-off like this.,

Take a yard stick, 1" is super rich, 36" is super lean.

You can set your pop-off to say, 12lbs, which may put your air/fuel mixture around 23" on the yard stick.

Your needles will only give you 3" of adjustment in either direction before they become un-effective in holding a tune.

Your goal is say...18" on the yardstick, dead center. You cannot tune the carb as it sits to run properly, you can get it darn close, but it will never be correct.

Likewise, you can set pop-off too low, and it will flood as soon as you pull the rope, and will only run with the needle cracked off their seats.

These are my findings...pop-off is very important in a diaphragm carb, be it a Zama, Tilly, Walbro, TK, whatever.

Here is a thread made by ther Wizard of Carbs himself, E.C. Birt, read it 3 times, and after a while it all starts to make sense, this guy can build and tune carbs in his sleep. His words are absolutely invaluable.

He is like the Smokey Yunick of Carbs...haha


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 3, 2008)

Scandy14 said:


> I have heard that a HL63 and HL19 will work, and not sure what others will work as well.
> 
> I am located in the Panama City area.



How about an HL-191?

Think one of those would bolt up? I might be able to dig one of them up, it's been a while since I saw it.


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## Scandy14 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Hl191*

I don't know if will work, but it would be a starting point. How much do you want for it, if you have one?


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## SilverBox (Feb 17, 2009)

Nice thread, (kicks it back up to the top)!


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## Philbert (Mar 2, 2009)

I've looked at a couple of these carb rebuild threads, and a couple of You Tube videos recently. Very helpful. Thank you.

It's interesting that they all stress 'be careful ! do not lose the spring under the needle arm !'.

I am just curious why they don't include these springs in the re-build kits if they are so easy to lose in the rebuild?

Philbert


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## Urbicide (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm getting ready to rebuild a Tillotson HL166B on a Stihl S10 top handle and by some strange coincidence it is the 1 year anniversary of Gary originally starting this great thread.


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## bcorradi (Mar 15, 2009)

Excellent post Gary


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## Freehand (Mar 25, 2009)

Awsome post ,O.P.-kickin' her back to the top.


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## ProMac1K (Mar 25, 2009)

Awesome tutorial Gary! I look forward to you doing another some day.

I need to spread some love around before I give you any more, though.....if ya know what I mean.  
Definitely deserve some rep for that there.


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## JONSEREDFAN6069 (Mar 25, 2009)

nice job Gary, should run as good as your 72 i've recently seen.


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## Stihl088stock (Apr 12, 2009)

*Hl-46b*

Does anyone know what kit to use on a Tillotson HL-46B carburetor? 

Why don't the kits come with the inlet screen?... mine is degraded beyond repair


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## William Balaska (Apr 30, 2009)

Gary I just finished my zip carb rebuild last night do you know the high low settings? I started at one turn out each and way rich i'm at a 1/2 turn way better but want to be sure since the saw is new to me and it's the first I ran it.


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## GASoline71 (Jun 9, 2009)

Gotta post a quick update... The carb kit I used for this rebuild was the RK-113... like I said in the rebuild, I believe this was an "Improved" design from the standard ol' RK-88 kits.

Anyways... I got a couple of RK-88 kits (from site sponsor Edge and Engine), and rebuilt an HL earlier this evening, and I have to say that I like the "Old style" needle and seat assemply in the RK-88's over the RK-113's. I will be tearing the carb back out of the Zip to put the "Old Style" needle and seat in. 

Just thought you guys would want to know. Nothing in the rebuild really changes... Just remember to use the proper gaskets with the seats. Just a different opinion on the different kits. 

Gary


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## GASoline71 (Jun 9, 2009)

William Balaska said:


> Gary I just finished my zip carb rebuild last night do you know the high low settings? I started at one turn out each and way rich i'm at a 1/2 turn way better but want to be sure since the saw is new to me and it's the first I ran it.



William... I apologize for not seeing this earlier... 

Anyways... as per the HL service manual, the H screw should be out 1 1/4 turn, and the L screw should be out 3/4 of a turn.

Here is the link to the webpage for the service manuals straight from Tillotson's website: Tillotson Service Manuals 

Right click on the HL "US" download and save it to your computer. It is in MS Word format.

Gary


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## Urbicide (Jun 9, 2009)

Hey Gary. Would you happen to know the initial settings for a HS Tillotson? My computer does not care much for Tillotson's web site. I keep getting a message that it is unable to load the graphics conversion filter. Thanks again for a great tutorial.

Vince


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## William Balaska (Jun 9, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> William... I apologize for not seeing this earlier...
> 
> Anyways... as per the HL service manual, the H screw should be out 1 1/4 turn, and the L screw should be out 3/4 of a turn.
> 
> ...



Thanks Gary


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## deezlfan (Jun 9, 2009)

Could you bolt one of these on there??







This is a set of HLs I rebuilt for a 252cc JLO mounted on an old SkiDoo.
You can see that one lever actuates the second carb like secondaries
on an automotive carb. Yeah the velocity stacks aren't very practical
on a saw...... Twice the carbs, four times the tuning headaches. 

Just one piece of advice, DO NOT assume that all needles are the same
length. Genuine Tillotson kits may be, but aftermarket kits vary wildly. 
Using the old lever setting is a good shortcut with equal lenght needles,
but if you don't check the needles length you will go nuts trying to find 
the problem.


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## GASoline71 (Jun 9, 2009)

Urbicide said:


> Hey Gary. Would you happen to know the initial settings for a HS Tillotson? My computer does not care much for Tillotson's web site. I keep getting a message that it is unable to load the graphics conversion filter. Thanks again for a great tutorial.
> 
> Vince



You bet Vince...

H screw out 1 1/4 turns and the L screw out 1 turn. Initial adjustments for the HS as per the Tillotson service manual... 

Gary


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## GASoline71 (Jun 9, 2009)

deezlfan said:


> Just one piece of advice, DO NOT assume that all needles are the same
> length. Genuine Tillotson kits may be, but aftermarket kits vary wildly.
> Using the old lever setting is a good shortcut with equal lenght needles,
> but if you don't check the needles length you will go nuts trying to find
> the problem.



Good piece of advice... That is exactly why I recently posted about the 2 Tillotson kits I used. The 113 had a different needle and seat where the 88 has the same needle and seat as the old carbs. The 113 kit was a factory Tillotson kit. I was told by who I got it from that it was a newer "Improved" design.

But I'm stickin' with the 88's for now on. 

Gary


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## Urbicide (Jun 9, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> You bet Vince...
> 
> H screw out 1 1/4 turns and the L screw out 1 turn. Initial adjustments for the HS as per the Tillotson service manual...
> 
> Gary



Appreciate that Gary!
:wave:
.......................................... :wave:
......................................................................................:wave:


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## Connor (Jul 22, 2009)

Hello I'm new here and have been following this thread for a while as I try and tune an HL 166 I have grafted to my son's mini bike ( I can hear the growning please bare with me )


This carb ( and all others like it ) I have ever encountered seem to work just fine in any possition. So I assumed I could mount it standing up and gavity feed it fuel ( with the pulse fitting hooked up to the intake port of a 4 stroke Honda Clone ).

I need to run it significantly richer on the L jet to get any throttle response.
the carb goes from rich to lean leaning it about 30 deg from one side to the other. last run before the header was much better than this although the idle jet was so rich it had a serious miss at idle. Now with reduced back presure everything has changed again and as you can see its worse.

I stripped the carb and check everything again the carb is used and not rebuilt but nothing inside is worn (might the diaphram be a bit stretched and old not sure how to check this ? )

Carb settings change everytime I start the engine so I have to constantly adjust it. I think I may have an airlock issue inside the metering chamber. 

Lastly It burns fuel like the second coming.

I am way out on a limb here asking about an aplication of a saw carb that has nothing to do with saws but I hope some of you might have some input for me.....

I do have some saws my old John deere and Clinton. Both run fine knock on wood lol.

Video speaks far better than enything else so I have up loaded some test runs to try and find some advice. Any help would be great apreciated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T7sADPCIWE&feature=channel_page

Connor


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## junkyarddoggie (Jul 31, 2009)

*HL carb advice needed*

Hi Gary

Once again an excellent tutorial congrats there. I'm having some trouble out of an HL carb, maybe you can help me shed some light on the problem. I have an old poulan 71 A saw. The problem is that's not getting fuel. I have had the carb off three times now. It is super clean inside with no crud any where. I replaced the black fuel pump diaphragm, but not the other brown fiber looking one. The last time I took it apart I noticed that the brown
diaphragm had those two flap pieces curled up. Is it possible that's the problem? Should I start over with an all new kit on this one? The needle is not sticking and looks ok. Also I was wondering about that tiny brass plug between the mixture screws? What is it for? There is also another brass plug that looks like some sort of jet on the side of the carb. It's just below the mixture screws, and has an 8 stamped into it. See link below for a pic. Note I removed that small brass plug to look in there but I do have it.
I'm a Stens small engines parts dealer. I can order the diaphragm kit for $ 2.51 but it doesn't have the needle and seat. I hate to buy an expensive kit and then have the same problem still.

http://cmasalvage.com/71a.jpg


Thanks Mike


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## ol'homey (Jul 31, 2009)

Mike,
My old C72 Homey would idle fine but go lean in the cut. Pulled the HL Tilly and found the brown "snake skin" fuel pump diaphragm flappers all curled up. Replaced with a new black diaphragm and the saw runs perfect again. My guess is the ethanol in the fuel is causing the flappers to curl. I would also guess that when the flappers curl they don't pump fuel as well and can't keep up with demand at WOT so it just runs out of fuel in the cut. Not good for piston/cylinder life! Anybody seen this before? Are the black vinyl looking diaphragms any better at not curling than the old snake skins?


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## ol'homey (Jul 31, 2009)

Connor,
Check the metering diaphragm for stiffness. If it's old and stiff it can hold the needle valve open pressurizing the metering cavity and forcing fuel out the jets. Fired up one my old homies that had been sitting awhile and it ran rich to point where fuel was dripping out the throat of the carb. Pulled it apart and the metering diaphragm was stiff like leather. New metering and fuel pump diaphragms was all she needed.


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## Urbicide (Jul 31, 2009)

The fuel pump gasket "flappers" serve as check valves to keep the fuel moving in the proper direction. They have to be flat or you won't be pumping any fuel into and through the carb. You can buy the individual gaskets & diaphragms if you like. It is easier just to buy the repair kit which should come with a new needle & seat valve. It would be nice if the kits would come with a new metering lever spring & fuel screen.


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## Connor (Jul 31, 2009)

ol'homey said:


> Connor,
> Check the metering diaphragm for stiffness. If it's old and stiff it can hold the needle valve open pressurizing the metering cavity and forcing fuel out the jets. Fired up one my old homies that had been sitting awhile and it ran rich to point where fuel was dripping out the throat of the carb. Pulled it apart and the metering diaphragm was stiff like leather. New metering and fuel pump diaphragms was all she needed.



Thank you for the tip.
I found the problem was the way the arm was set up and now it run pretty good. the tutorial realy helped.

Thank you
Connor


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## junkyarddoggie (Jul 31, 2009)

Yes the kits I can order for 2.50 are not compatible with the E-20 or E-85 ethanol fuel. From the picture in my book it looks like that snake skin diaphragm. Call me broke, I just don't want to spend 25 bucks on some one else's kit and have the same no fuel problem. I would much rather spend 2.50 and have the same problem, and it it fixes it that would be great. Thanks for the info. I feel better now that that one diaphragm is what is causing the trouble. I usually have good luck with rebuilding carbs but every once and a while I get a problem carb, and nothing seems to work out good with those.  Does any one know what the deal is with those two brass plugs by the mixture screws? The bigger one looks like a jet to me?


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## Urbicide (Jul 31, 2009)

That looks like a speed governor.


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## junkyarddoggie (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi guys I was digging through my stash of rebuild kits this evening and I think found a kit for the HL, needle, seat and everything. Will try installing the kit this weekend and see what happens.


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## Jtheo (Aug 2, 2009)

Hey Gary,

This is very good. Thanks for taking the time. Been wondering where you were.


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## GASoline71 (Aug 4, 2009)

Bump... was asked about this by a few members... here ya go.

Read about where I went back and pulled the carb and used the originl RK-88 kit instead of the one I actually used in the tutorial. It's towards the end of the thread. Then go to the beginning...



Gary


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## lumberinspector (Sep 4, 2009)

Thank You Gary for this great thread! 

I'm in the process of rebuilding one on my Homey 2100. 

What is a safe way to get the gasket etc. off? 

Some of it came off fine but others part were stuck pretty good. 

I though I would ask before I tried anything as I didn't want to scratch anything up and have things not seal correctly. 

Thanks again Gary.


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## homelitexl800 (Sep 5, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Bump... was asked about this by a few members... here ya go.
> 
> Read about where I went back and pulled the carb and used the originl RK-88 kit instead of the one I actually used in the tutorial. It's towards the end of the thread. Then go to the beginning...
> 
> ...



Hi

i have a homelite xl-800, the carb says h326a, but i am not sure what gasket kit to buy for this.
can you help me with this.

thanks:greenchainsaw:


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## lawnmowertech37 (Sep 5, 2009)

homelitexl800 said:


> Hi
> 
> i have a homelite xl-800, the carb says h326a, but i am not sure what gasket kit to buy for this.
> can you help me with this.
> ...



hate to tell u but my carburetor parts diagram for the xl800 and the xl700 and the xl800am shows a carb homelite part # A-63448 which is a tillotson HS-26A i dont see any where it shows a H326A that 3 is a S your kit you need for that carb is located here 

http://www.cmsmallengines.net/tillotson-carburetor-kit-rk23hs-rk-23hs-rk23-hs-.html

thanks 
calvin


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## davidbradley360 (Sep 6, 2009)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> I run a Tillotson HL314G on my Open Modified Honda GX-200 Kart engine. It's got the .890 Venturi, and 1.000" throttle bore. Great carbs, great for power!
> I have to rebuild about every 5 running hours however, dont know why, we just have to rebuild them more often on 4 strokes...the metering dipahragm becomes very stretched.
> The only thing Im not sure about on your rebuild is why you arent using the new style captivated needle with the new style captivated metering level? They were in unison, great results doing it that way. I tried your way on accident the first time I rebuilt mine, and it wouldnt tune, even with the pop-off set at 10lbs, it wouldnt tune..
> Also, why arent you setting your pop-off? Correct pop-off is the key to a tilly Being off by just a couple pounds can make it not run properly..lean out at high demands, flood at idle, etc.
> ...




those parts sources you listed in this post are awesome, they have everything, and lots of trick stuff too- the popoff spring is a very critical part of the carburetor. I tried a popoff spring from another carb and the saw would not run, and I had to put the old one spring back in. Each carb is calibrated to application with that spring- bigger saws with more cubes will have a richer spring than smaller saws with small displacement. Keeping the original tune spring is critical, to keep the saw in OEM specs. 

great info on this thread, I've referred to it a few times already getting the HL carb on my DB 360 saw ironed out. I'd like to add a few things I've found while doing my own carb.

The adjustment needle screws for high and low metering setting- I found the longer one goes in the "H" hole, the shorter one goes in the "L" hole. "long-high, short-low"- in case you get them mixed up, that's an easy way to remember it.

the different needle valves and seats issue- the new style forked lever with captivated needle valve, uses a shorter needle valve and shallower seat as well- they are not interchangeable with the old style "type 88" kit needles/seats. Putting the old needle valve in the new seat, the seat will stick up too far. The improved seat has a metal seat area, and is not bored through like the old style seat is.

the old style "type 88" seats, to remove the rubber O-ring from the bottom of the seat, remove the seat first, then just push the O-ring out using the needle valve as a push tool- the old style "88" seats are bored all the way through like a tube- this makes cleaning them easy if you need to reuse an old seat, take a pipe cleaner or very fine 1000 grade emery that just polishes the surface inside- and old needle valve can be polished in this manner as well, then the needle/seat slides easily without getting stuck, if that was the original problem

the new shallow seats use a copper o-ring on bottom to seal, the old "type 88" seats use a rubber O-ring that goes inside the bottom of the seat, the O-ring is flat on one side, and has a dimple facing outwards on the other side- all the seals I've seen so far, have the dimple facing outward/downward when installed, and the flat side of seal to the needle valve

I set initial H and L screws per this thread at 1 turn out on L, and 1-1/4 turn out on H, and have not had to touch it since, it runs great at idle and WOT right there.

I noticed that there are (3) governor linkage holes on the left side of my carb, it was in the middle hole originally so I left it there, but it appears that max WOT rpm can be adjusted up or down by moving the governor linkage connection on the carb.

when I removed the intake manifold tube and reed cage, I noticed that the intake/reed gasket was partially covering the port around the edges of the reed ports, and impeding flow somewhat- I cut the gasket with sharp scissors to open that up all around, so it didn't block gas flow- being careful not to cut apart that tiny transfer port of gasket that goes back to the carb- the result was, the engine ran better at WOT and idled better. Watch for correct gasket fit between intake tube and reed block (this has 4 small reed valves)


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## GASoline71 (Sep 6, 2009)

Great post davidbradley360... thank you for adding some more info to the thread.  

Best part about this forum is that there is always more info to learn... even from those of us that have been doing certain things for years... 

After I had discussed the "88" kits with another well known saw guy here in WA... he told me to yank that needle and seat out of the carb that I had initially used. I will admit there was a noted difference.

So... I wish I could go back and edit the tutorial and reitterate the use of the RK88 kits instead of what I used... which I thought were an "improved" design... maybe the mods will let me do that some day.

Dave? Dan? What say ye? 

Gary


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## Freehand (Sep 6, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Great post davidbradley360... thank you for adding some more info to the thread.
> 
> Best part about this forum is that there is always more info to learn... even from those of us that have been doing certain things for years...
> 
> ...




I'm glad to see this old thread gettin' kicked up...definitely one of the top ten quality posts on A.S. .At least the mods should let you edit Gary,and I'm giving a strong vote for sticky status


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## lumberinspector (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm in the process of rebuilding the carb on my 2100. 

Does it make a difference in the height of the inlet seat? 

I've attached a photo of the two. Old and new. 

Thanks


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## ProMac1K (Sep 7, 2009)

lumberinspector said:


> I'm in the process of rebuilding the carb on my 2100.
> 
> Does it make a difference in the height of the inlet seat?
> 
> ...



So long as it's able to thread in the same amount, and the seat of the valve is at the same spot in relation to the float movement, that would work. If not, then definately not. Maybe with adjustment of the float, though.


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## Deprime (Sep 8, 2009)

Does the RK-88 kit work for a HL63? I have a Mac 250 that I am working on.


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## lumberinspector (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks ProMac. 

I have the RK-88 kit so I was suprised to see this after following Gary's thread. 

Maybe he will chime in since he went back and used this kit.


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## Deprime (Sep 15, 2009)

Response from Tillotson customer service reguarding major and minor kits for the HL63 Carb in a McCulloch 250.

The parts that you require are

USD

RK89HL 18.65 EA 

DG2HL 7.38 EA


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## Wildman1024 (Sep 19, 2009)

*Sticky???*

Can a mod make this thread a sticky?? I have found this super helpful and used it a few times now. I hate having to do a search to find it though.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has found this to be a great thread. Thanks Gary


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## Jtheo (Oct 14, 2009)

This is a very helpful thread, and even I can understand it. That's saying a lot too.


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## davidbradley360 (Oct 15, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Great post davidbradley360... thank you for adding some more info to the thread.
> Best part about this forum is that there is always more info to learn... even from those of us that have been doing certain things for years...
> After I had discussed the "88" kits with another well known saw guy here in WA... he told me to yank that needle and seat out of the carb that I had initially used. I will admit there was a noted difference.
> So... I wish I could go back and edit the tutorial and reitterate the use of the RK88 kits instead of what I used... which I thought were an "improved" design... maybe the mods will let me do that some day.
> Dave? Dan? What say ye? Gary




your method does work, basically you can use the forked needle valve lever from the newer captivated needle, on the 88 type needle valve. It would just be resting on top of the needle valve, instead of in the groove like on the improved type. But you can't use the type 88 needle in a type 113 seat, or vice versa- due to depth difference. Only the levers are interchangeable, which is a good thing to know- no harm done there.

since I posted on this thread, I got another 5.8 DB saw running, and found the mixture screws in the wrong holes, and one mixture screw tip bummed up a little- I switched them back to how they should be, and now it runs.

I'd like to stress to anyone getting these old saws running, always change the spark plug- I had one here that was giving me fits and would not start, and when it did it would only run for a few seconds and stall. Sanded/gapped points, rebuilt carb, cleaned out gas tank, changed fuel line, cleaned reeds- still would not run. Cleaned the old plug and it had spark when checked. Still would not run.

I went to Walmart and bought 4 new plugs, one for each of my DB saws- put a new plug in the "problem" saw- it fired right up and stayed running.

the old, bad plugs will spark when removed from engine and checked, but won't run the engine. 2-strokes are finicky on plugs.


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## lawnmowertech37 (Oct 15, 2009)

Deprime said:


> Response from Tillotson customer service reguarding major and minor kits for the HL63 Carb in a McCulloch 250.
> 
> The parts that you require are
> 
> ...



the rk89hl was superceded to rk88hl back in march of 1992 

which i can sell them all day long on my website for $ 12.50

they retail for $ 13.34 now i am nice enough to try to save the consumer some funds 

the dg2hl changed around the same date to a dg5hl $ 7.20 each 
which is also on my site 

hope this update helps you 
calvin


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## Deprime (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks lawnmowertech!:biggrinbounce2:

Haven't been in a real hurry to rebuild the carb. Kinda waiting to see if anyone had any input first.


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## scrampbell (Dec 18, 2009)

Gary, crane linked me to your post from here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=117181

Thanks for putting all the effort into this great post. I just started rebuilding my first carb (Walbro WT-324) and the only thing more helpful than your post would be if you were working on the WT-324 instead. Thanks again!


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## Eddie39 (Jan 17, 2010)

THANKS for the picture tutorial it made striping a carb look alot simpler than i first thought which is great because ive an old carb to strip thats got alot of build up in it through not getting used CHEERS


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## boda65 (Jan 19, 2010)

*HL 19E variations*

I want to start out by thanking Gary for this awesome thread. I'm not worthy!! 

I have referred to this thread for several HL rebuilds. I recently rebuilt an HL-19E from my McCulloch 1-72. There were a few minor variations from the Zip carb in this thread I thought I would share. This carb has the low profile fuel inlet. The inlet nipple is part of the fuel pump body, rather than being on the end cap.







Under the endcap, you will see a second boss, which is the fuel inlet into the pump from the nipple. Also, instead of a thin wire mesh screen, it uses a sintered bronze wafer, quite a bit thicker than the screen. I had to use an X-acto knife to enlarge the ID of the gasket, as the filter has to fit inside of the gasket due to its thickness.





The other difference was in the metering needles. There was a less pronounced difference between the H and L needle tip angles. The high speed needle is the long one, and obviously the shorter one would be the low speed needle. These needles do not have the seal, washer, and spring. Instead they use a single O-ring near the outer end of the needle. I used a 1/16 diameter cross section O-ring with a 1/8 inch ID and it seems to fit well. This ring serves both to seal the needle, and provide friction to hold the needle in place.





I put a light coat of thin grease on the O-ring area to provide a little lube so it doesn't bind or cut the O-ring.





I like this lubriplate grease. It is a thin white grease, much thinner than axle type grease. If a little gets where it doesn't belong, it will wash away rather than plug a passage.





Hope this helps someone.
Jim


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## Freehand (May 14, 2010)

And why prey tell has this one not achieved sticky status?


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## ZIPFAN (Aug 30, 2010)

*tilly hl rebuild*

Thanks a ton for the rebuild walk through and pics. You did a super job throughout. I have an old zip and was thinking about a carb rebuild soon. I just stumbled up on your thread, and i was very surprized to find it. This will be a huge help when I rebuild my old tilly. Thanks again.


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## davidbradley360 (Sep 25, 2010)

I'd like to add something to this very useful thread about the Tillotson carbs. Just recently acquired a David Bradley Model # 91760002 saw (my first direct drive DB saw) and as usual it had the typical fuel delivery problems due to sitting, which led to running problems- no power when cutting and stalling. Instead of springing for a carb rebuild kit ($15) or diaphragm kit ($6), this time I disassembled the carb and just cleaned it really well and tweaked it. The diaphragm looked like it had been replaced at one time (no severe creases around it). But what I did notice was scrape and rub marks inside the needle valve assembly- some slight corrosion on the needle valve itself, and scrape/rub marks inside the needle seat tube- as if the needle valve may have been sticking. I polished the needle valve and seat tube with 1000 grit fine wet polishing sandpaper (the same grit used to polish metal to mirror finish). Also washed out the gas tank with the garden hose, and flushed/dried it out- disassembled the petcock and cleaned it. Replaced the fuel line and crankcase pulse line that leads to the carb. When reassembling the carb, noticed that the needle valve actuator arm was slightly below the floor of the chamber, but when the stud was loosened that holds it in place, it popped up a bit and was flush. So also polished the shaft that the actuator rides on- then bent the arm up slightly so it was "just" above the floor, a tiny bit.

Now the saw runs great with no cost to rebuild, only labor to clean/adjust. 

How you can tell if a Tillotson has a problem, it will become unresponsive to the low speed mixture setting. A saw that is getting proper fuel delivery, will be sensitive to adjusting the low speed mix screw 1/4" turn in either direction. If turning the screw doesn't change the idle, then the saw is running either too lean or too rich, so the screw can't adjust anything- the mixture is totally out of the ballpark, beyond the low mix screw adjusting capability. Typically when the carb gets worn, the saw goes lean and doesn't get enough fuel and wants to stall for no apparent reason.

Now this saw responds to the slightest turn of the low mix screw. I don't know how long this no-buck no-cost fix will last, but if it goes sour I can always then invest in a $6 diaphragm kit. To be honest if a saw has a metallic needle valve and seat with the rubber insert, the needle/seat can easily be made to work by lightly polishing it. All it does is turn the fuel on and off. But if a diaphragm is worn, then it has to be replaced, because on these types of carbs, the diaphragm acts as both the fuel pump and float. It provides the fuel pressure to force the fuel into the metering circuits of the carb, and opens/closes the needle valve at the same time.


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## davidbradley360 (Sep 25, 2010)

ZIPFAN said:


> Thanks a ton for the rebuild walk through and pics. You did a super job throughout. I have an old zip and was thinking about a carb rebuild soon. I just stumbled up on your thread, and i was very surprized to find it. This will be a huge help when I rebuild my old tilly. Thanks again.




per above, I suggest just try a carb clean/adjust first- about half the saws I get, respond to just a good cleaning/adjusting, and in fact don't really need a rebuild kit. Most of the carbs and fuel tanks have foreign gunk and dirt buildup in the gas tank and carb over time- and sludge from old gas.


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## john taliaferro (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks a lot of help


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## arrow13 (Jan 11, 2013)

Outstanding photo tutorial and follow up by other members. Thanks everyone! Although I do not have a saw with this type of carb, I sure learned a lot and will know where to go when I do find a saw with these carbs.


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## desr580 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hi guys just wondering could I have pictures on rebuilding a tillotson carburettor it's on a stihl 031av I think there is a gasket missing on the pump side thanks


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## scallywag (Jan 4, 2015)

desr580 said:


> Hi guys just wondering could I have pictures on rebuilding a tillotson carburettor it's on a stihl 031av I think there is a gasket missing on the pump side thanks



You'll get more replies if you start a new thread!......your Stihl 031 runs a Tillotson HU-3C.


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## desr580 (Jan 4, 2015)

Thanks for reply en en that model number you gave me helped me locate a rebuild kit I couldn't find a model just make and to be honest I don't know how to start new thread thanks


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## scallywag (Jan 4, 2015)

Sure you can!... Just click on 'chainsaw' above us here, that will take you back to the main page, there you will see the blue rectangular 'Post new thread' button.


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## jbqwik (Jan 4, 2015)

I have little to add, but, still I want to thank the poster for this work. He put extra effort into getting the photography right, then adding text, details, etc. This should be an example of how to do a professional grade tutorial.


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## KMSwr (Sep 1, 2015)

Any ideas where to find a kit for an HL-40 for an old Wright saw?


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## pioneerguy600 (Sep 1, 2015)

KMSwr said:


> Any ideas where to find a kit for an HL-40 for an old Wright saw?



Tillotson HL rebuild kits are very easy to find, just about any small engine repair shop will have them or can get them in for you, eBay is full of them also.


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## Eccentric (Sep 1, 2015)

Most chainsaw HL's take the DG-5HL diaphragm/gasket kit. The RK (Repair Kit) 'full kits' are model specific. Most (but not all) take the RK-88HL kit. The main differences between the various RK's lies in the needle and seat. A few different heights were used. May also be some differences in welch plugs and such.


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## Jimtom (Oct 30, 2019)

I'm wondering if anyone can fix the blurry pictures in the beginning of this thread. I'm about to embark on this journey....thanks!


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

Jimtom said:


> I'm wondering if anyone can fix the blurry pictures in the beginning of this thread. I'm about to embark on this journey....thanks!


No, I doubt it. All of the old photos were lost several years ago, and really gutted this site. Those ones there were on "Photobucket" and they went out, or started charging money too.
This site became almost worthless almost at once, and still hasn't recovered.
A lot of great posts/folks pics and videos were thrown out, and a lot of those members will never be back.


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## Jimtom (Oct 30, 2019)

HarleyT said:


> No, I doubt it. All of the old photos were lost several years ago, and really gutted this site. Those ones there were on "Photobucket" and they went out, or started charging money too.
> This site became almost worthless almost at once, and still hasn't recovered.
> A lot of great posts/folks pics and videos were thrown out, and a lot of those members will never be back.



Dang...thats a bummer!


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

Jimtom said:


> Dang...thats a bummer!


Go to bing, and do an image search for "GASoline71", I see some pics there. But oddly, you have to turn your safesearch filter to "strict".


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

Here looks like one...


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

another.


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## Jimtom (Oct 30, 2019)

HarleyT said:


> Go to bing, and do an image search for "GASoline71", I see some pics there. But oddly, you have to turn your safesearch filter to "strict".


Nice... I'll give it a try! Thanks!


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

Yeah, live on the edge,

go with the unfiltered search!!!!


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

Type in "Gasoline71 arboristsite pics"!!!!


Gets rid of all of the naked oriental chicks.


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## HarleyT (Oct 30, 2019)

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...-28&sk=&cvid=A4F95C4BD6184966A6E176220E2580AC


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## Jimtom (Oct 31, 2019)

Tore into the silver logmaster some more today since it snowed all over my corn field. Mainly just takedown and cleaning up the 200 year old petrified crust of grease and oil. Brake fluid and an air hose were ok but when I switched over to PB blaster and air hose I didn't need to scrub hardly at all. The PB really loosened it up fast. Are there parts lists around here for these saws? Gonna need a gas cap if it ends up running.


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