# New ALASKAN SMALL LOG MILL, Seized up Jonsered



## dlabrie (Jul 25, 2010)

I received my new ALASKAN SMALL LOG MILL from Baileys. I set it up on my Jonsered 2165 Turbo with ab 18 inch bar and a WOODLANDPRO .365 X .050 RIPPING CHAIN . The folks at Baileys said it was more than powerful enough. I cut one 8' X 10" white pine log into 6 great looking 1" boards. I was making the second cut on my 2nd log and my saw seized up! I was letting it idle between cuts as suggested in posts I had read.

Did i do something wrong? I need to have the saw repaired or replaced but now I am afraid to use it as a rip saw. 

David


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## wigglesworth (Jul 25, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I received my new ALASKAN SMALL LOG MILL from Baileys. I set it up on my Jonsered 2165 Turbo with ab 18 inch bar and a WOODLANDPRO .365 X .050 RIPPING CHAIN . The folks at Baileys said it was more than powerful enough. I cut one 8' X 10" white pine log into 6 great looking 1" boards. I was making the second cut on my 2nd log and my saw seized up! I was letting it idle between cuts as suggested in posts I had read.
> 
> Did i do something wrong? I need to have the saw repaired or replaced but now I am afraid to use it as a rip saw.
> 
> David



Really no way to tell what happened until you tear the saw down and have a look. My best guess is you lean seized it. 

Milling is most likely the most taxing thing you can do with a chainsaw. It pays to de-tune them and run them pig rich to avoid any chance of a lean seize.


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## smokinj (Jul 25, 2010)

Air filter keep clean and a sharp chain on at all times oiler pumping good oil?


65cc saw should do pine and only 10 in. wide 8 ft long sure dont sound like to much for that saw.


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## dlabrie (Jul 25, 2010)

I will have to take it to the repair shop tomorrow. I had a new chain and it was cutting great; just a little pressure and it moved nicely through the wood.The saw is 6 years old and I cut about 9 cord of wood off of my property each year. I guess I had better learn about adjusting the lean/rich mix and maybe adding more 2cyl oil. I was running 50/1. I am gun-shy about trying it again once it is repaired.


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## smokinj (Jul 25, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I will have to take it to the repair shop tomorrow. I had a new chain and it was cutting great; just a little pressure and it moved nicely through the wood.The saw is 6 years old and I cut about 9 cord of wood off of my property each year. I guess I had better learn about adjusting the lean/rich mix and maybe adding more 2cyl oil. I was running 50/1. I am gun-shy about trying it again once it is repaired.



If you where on the 2nd log and still the same chain, things will get hotter, not sure how you air filter look at this point but that can cause it to run hotter as well, but sure dont sound like you where over doing it.


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## dlabrie (Jul 25, 2010)

I will definitely be more aware next time. Does a rip chain need constant sharpening? It seemed to be cutting just fine. My Cross cut chains rarely need sharpening unless I am in dirty wood or hit the ground. I made sure these logs were clean. I didn't check the air filter. If you start clean do you need to check it after a couple of boards?
Thanks


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## smokinj (Jul 25, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I will definitely be more aware next time. Does a rip chain need constant sharpening? It seemed to be cutting just fine. My Cross cut chains rarely need sharpening unless I am in dirty wood or hit the ground. I made sure these logs were clean. I didn't check the air filter. If you start clean do you need to check it after a couple of boards?
> Thanks



You should be able to fill it getting dull, just little things that cause heat like chain over tight.... I would say in pine that small you didnt over do it there was a weak spot in that saw that show up under a little pressure. If you like the milling and it is a blast (for me) go bigger maybe 80-90cc's, but I sure would not think that saw would have blown under what you where doing.


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## BobL (Jul 26, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I will definitely be more aware next time. Does a rip chain need constant sharpening? It seemed to be cutting just fine. *My Cross cut chains rarely need sharpening *unless I am in dirty wood or hit the ground.



That's what 4 out of 5 people who bring me their saws to look at say - when I look at their chains my skin crawls. In your clean soft woods, unless you touch up the chain after every 2 or 3 tankfuls of mix you will have chain glint, chain glint means the saw is working far harder than it needs to and is enough to send a poorly tuned saw over the top while milling.

Post some close up "side on' and "from on top" images of a cutter or two and W can diagnose your chain.



> I guess I had better learn about adjusting the lean/rich mix and maybe adding more 2cyl oil.


I'd say you hit the nail on the head with the first part of this statement. A saw that has cross cut successfully cannot just be bolted to a mill and assume it will survive. It must be tuned to run a touch richer than a regular saw. Whether you run 40:1 or 50:1 is, like air filter cleanliness, a second order effect.


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## BIG JAKE (Jul 26, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I will definitely be more aware next time. Does a rip chain need constant sharpening? It seemed to be cutting just fine. My Cross cut chains rarely need sharpening unless I am in dirty wood or hit the ground. I made sure these logs were clean. I didn't check the air filter. If you start clean do you need to check it after a couple of boards?
> Thanks



Sharpen when you need to. If you start with a fresh chain you'll notice when it slows down after milling a while. I also check it when refueling. I don't know what your jonsered filter looks like but the filter on my 066 is massive-I mill all day no problem. If your filter is little you may have to clean it during the course of the day. Compressed air can damage air filters. Also check carb throat replace air filter if any crud is getting by. Use 40:1 mix no alcohol(if possible) with minimum 89 octane(I like 91/92) gas and keep it fresh. Lower octanes can cause detonation-you don't want to mess with that. Use quality two stroke oil made for chainsaws not TCW-3 outboard oil. I like the Stihl, Husky, or Bailey's oil. Synthetic or dino oil I don't think matters dino just smokes a little more. Tune 500-1000rpm below max rpm at operating temperature. Have them pressure check your saw to see if you have an air leak in the crank seals or intake. Make sure your chain is oiling good to minimize friction which is also easier on your engine. Saws run hotter milling that's why tuning is critical. Check your cooling fins are clean/no obstructions in fan housing. Never run out of fuel in a cut. Replace fuel(can cause lean if dirty) and air filters often. Fuel tank vents can also cause seizure if they're not working properly.


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## dlabrie (Jul 26, 2010)

I found this piston head on EBay. The guy said I could just bolt it on. Do you think that would be the case, or should I take it to the shop.? I've never trid anything like this before. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390170031727&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Here are the pics of my chain.
View attachment 145101


View attachment 145102


View attachment 145103


View attachment 145104


View attachment 145105


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## smokinj (Jul 26, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I found this piston head on EBay. The guy said I could just bolt it on. Do you think that would be the case, or should I take it to the shop.? I've never trid anything like this before. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390170031727&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
> 
> Here are the pics of my chain.
> View attachment 145101
> ...



I dont think that 8 inch log was the proble, the proplem was there and show up on a longer cut, That chain looks good.


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## mtngun (Jul 26, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I found this piston head on EBay. The guy said I could just bolt it on. Do you think that would be the case, or should I take it to the shop.?


You shouldn't run the saw again until the root cause of the problem has been determined and corrected, other wise the new parts will quickly fail.

The aftermarket parts tend to be a crap shoot, sometimes they work OK, other times not. I'd suggest buying through Baileys because at least if you have a problem, they'll stand behind the product.

Chances are you merely need a new piston -- I'd suggest a Meteor if it is available -- and to clean up the existing cylinder. Lots of threads on how to do that over on the chainsaw forum. But first, ya gotta determine the root cause, or else you are wasting your time.

Chain looks decent, I don't think the chain was the root cause. Either the saw wasn't getting enough fuel, or else it had an air leak.


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## BobL (Jul 26, 2010)

Yeah chain looks OK.

These are relatively minor but I would clean out the gullet at A and round over the raker at B.






The width to height ratio of the coloured rectangle is ~7 to 1 which is maybe a bit too aggressive for your size saw if you were to mill bigger wood but for an 18" bar in softwood it should be OK.


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## dlabrie (Jul 26, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice. I brought the saw to the shop and we could see metal shavings on the piston head. It looks like they are going to rebuild the top end.

Meanwhile... I am in the process of remodeling a bathroom and the carpenter who is working for me said he had 8 chainsaws! He said that over the years when people couldn't pay he would take stuff in trade. Once this job is done, I'll take a look at what he wants to sell and check back here for advice as to which would be the best for a dedicated mill.

David


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## YarraValleyDude (Jul 28, 2010)

Bugger, damn good saw that one, i know i have one, 2065.
Perhaps next time run it at 30 to 1 and check max rpm with tach, Ive found with mine that 12500 rpm is plenty for a 20" bar milling hardwood.
Hope you can get her fixed.


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## dlabrie (Jul 29, 2010)

YarraValleyDude said:


> Bugger, damn good saw that one, i know i have one, 2065.
> Perhaps next time run it at 30 to 1 and check max rpm with tach, Ive found with mine that 12500 rpm is plenty for a 20" bar milling hardwood.
> Hope you can get her fixed.



I guess I need to get a tach. What type would be best?


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## mtngun (Jul 29, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I guess I need to get a tach. What type would be best?


Pretty much have to get one made for chainsaws. Bailey's sells the Sen-Dec, Edge & Engine sells the Fast Tach or TT-20 (same company). 

For milling, the $30 ENM works fine, but it's too slow for carb tuning.

They are all overpriced (except the ENM) and not particularly durable, but I sure feel better having a tach to check the carb tuning.


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## BobL (Jul 29, 2010)

I now think I know what killed my Sendec.

I had it bolted to my 880 on the BIL mill during 2009. I last used it in Jan of 2010 and then the 880 sat in my shed or outside covered in black plastic during Feb - April. When I pulled it out to use in May the tacho was dead. Feb is one of the hottest months and March is steamy hot as well so I think the heat killed it. 

The fast tach I have limited experience with and it does not seem to work all that well in my fancy holder because it is too far from the pulse.

I will redesign my holders to incorporate velcro so the tachos don't need to sit in the heat for so long.


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## YarraValleyDude (Jul 29, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I guess I need to get a tach. What type would be best?



There are a few different types available, i use one designed for model areoplanes like this one, it works a treat and very cheap and reliable.
I just point it at the flywheel where I've made a white paint spot on oposing sides and it reads the two spots just like a propeller on a plane engine.
On some saws it'll work straight through the pull cover, on others the cover will need to be removed.


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## BIG JAKE (Jul 29, 2010)

YarraValleyDude said:


> There are a few different types available, i use one designed for model areoplanes like this one, it works a treat and very cheap and reliable.
> I just point it at the flywheel where I've made a white paint spot on oposing sides and it reads the two spots just like a propeller on a plane engine.
> On some saws it'll work straight through the pull cover, on others the cover will need to be removed.



I like it-with the vibration chainsaws have this would probably be the longest lived option as far as the hardware is concerned-would be good for tuning. On the otherhand, you would lose the ability to read in cut data like Mtngun and BobL do which could be useful for deciding when to sharpen, potential powerhead issues, or even differences in chain grinds.


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## BobL (Jul 29, 2010)

YarraValleyDude said:


> There are a few different types available, i use one designed for model areoplanes like this one, it works a treat and very cheap and reliable.
> I just point it at the flywheel where I've made a white paint spot on oposing sides and it reads the two spots just like a propeller on a plane engine.
> On some saws it'll work straight through the pull cover, on others the cover will need to be removed.



I have a photo tacho like yours I gave up using it because I like to have one hand on the trigger and one hand holding a screwdriver to turn the H screw, and I don't have a third hand to hold the tacho or aim the tacho at a spot on the flywheel. This is where a bracket to hold an impulse tacho onto the saw (eg the wrap handle) works well.






This works particularly well on a milling saw. I suppose a similar bracket could be set up for a photo tacho but it wouldn't work too well on a mill as it would be constantly smothered with sawdust.


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## YarraValleyDude (Jul 29, 2010)

BobL said:


> I have a photo tacho like yours I gave up using it because I like to have one hand on the trigger and one hand holding a screwdriver to turn the H screw, and I don't have a third hand to hold the tacho or aim the tacho at a spot on the flywheel. This is where a bracket to hold an impulse tacho onto the saw (eg the wrap handle) works well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bob, i just use it for initial tuning, if i need a third hand the kids are only to willing to help or the missus if I'm lucky.


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## mtngun (Jul 29, 2010)

BIG JAKE said:


> I like it-with the vibration chainsaws have this would probably be the longest lived option as far as the hardware is concerned-would be good for tuning.


As long as you don't mind taking the starter cover off (then how do you start it ?) or cut an aiming hole in the starter cover. Then there's that 3rd hand thing.

My Fast Tach got sent back for repairs. It was only a few months old, so hopefully it'll be covered by warranty. Still a disappointment, though, considering the $85 price.

When my Fast Tach died, I had it taped to the saw so I could tune the carb with one hand and hold the saw with the other hand (no 3rd hand here). 

In the future, I'd like to make a Fast Tach holder inspired by BillSteuwe's temperature gage holder, the one that uses a broom clamp to attach to the handlebar. I'll try to incorporate some rubber or foam padding to reduce vibration. 

Anyway, with a broom clamp holder, it would only take a second to snap onto the handlebar, and then I'd have both hands free for saw tuning.


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## BobL (Jul 29, 2010)

YarraValleyDude said:


> Bob, i just use it for initial tuning, if i need a third hand the kids are only to willing to help or the missus if I'm lucky.



You got got good kids and missus if they are willing to do that. I can't even really tune mine at home (inner city neighborhood and all that) so I have to wait till I get on site and then I am usually on my own.


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## YarraValleyDude (Jul 30, 2010)

BobL said:


> You got got good kids and missus if they are willing to do that. I can't even really tune mine at home (inner city neighborhood and all that) so I have to wait till I get on site and then I am usually on my own.



Cheers Bob, yeah there handy now and then.
Don't let the innercity stop you tuning that saw, there are usually tree crews working all over the place around town and what could be nicer than listening to a 3120 barking its nuts off......lol


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## TraditionalTool (Jul 30, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Chain looks decent, I don't think the chain was the root cause. Either the saw wasn't getting enough fuel, or else it had an air leak.


Sound to me like it was getting plenty of fuel, but not enough OIL...

Might be a bad mix of fuel. IOW, David, I would say you horked it up if that is the case. How many tanks of fuel did you use? Or did you cut those 6 pieces on one tank?


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## dlabrie (Jul 30, 2010)

YarraValleyDude said:


> There are a few different types available, i use one designed for model areoplanes like this one, it works a treat and very cheap and reliable.
> I just point it at the flywheel where I've made a white paint spot on oposing sides and it reads the two spots just like a propeller on a plane engine.
> On some saws it'll work straight through the pull cover, on others the cover will need to be removed.



I scratch build RC airplanes and have been wanting to buy one of them for some time now. When in stock, they have them here http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5609 for $15. I'll get one with my next order.


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## dlabrie (Jul 30, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> Sound to me like it was getting plenty of fuel, but not enough OIL...
> 
> Might be a bad mix of fuel. IOW, David, I would say you horked it up if that is the case. How many tanks of fuel did you use? Or did you cut those 6 pieces on one tank?



I had just filled the saw one board prior to its meltdown. I will definitely use a fresh gas mix when I get the saw back. I have seen mixes suggested from 30:1 to 50:1. I still have to figure that out. on top of that, I let it run out of fuel while cutting. It was very hot so I let it sit before I refilled it. I guess I did about everything wrong:bang:


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## smokinj (Jul 30, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I had just filled the saw one board prior to its meltdown. I will definitely use a fresh gas mix when I get the saw back. I have seen mixes suggested from 30:1 to 50:1. I still have to figure that out. on top of that, I let it run out of fuel while cutting. It was very hot so I let it sit before I refilled it. I guess I did about everything wrong:bang:



Alots of food for thought but a 8 in. pine on a 65cc saw should have no issues. even at 50:1


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## BobL (Jul 30, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I had just filled the saw one board prior to its meltdown. I will definitely use a fresh gas mix when I get the saw back. I have seen mixes suggested from 30:1 to 50:1. I still have to figure that out. on top of that, I let it run out of fuel while cutting. It was very hot so I let it sit before I refilled it. I guess I did about everything wrong:bang:



if the CS tuning is already on the lean side, repeatedly running the saw out of fuels can be enough to damage it. Leaving it sit before waiting to refuel is not a good thing. It would be better for the CS to quickly add just a little mix and restart the saw so that it cools itself down with its fan.


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## DRB (Jul 30, 2010)

smokinj said:


> Alots of food for thought but a 8 in. pine on a 65cc saw should have no issues. even at 50:1



+1

I have worn out a couple ripping chains on my 365 with a 28" bar 50:1 cuts up to 22" wide and it still runs strong. I don't think I have even ever tuned the carb. in the 5 or so years I have owned it.


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## dlabrie (Aug 4, 2010)

> Meanwhile... I am in the process of remodeling a bathroom and the carpenter who is working for me said he had 8 chainsaws! He said that over the years when people couldn't pay he would take stuff in trade. Once this job is done, I'll take a look at what he wants to sell and check back here for advice as to which would be the best for a dedicated mill.



The carpenter brought over a practically new HUSQVARNA 455 Rancher with an 18"bar. He wants $325 for it. Would this be a good mill saw for the price?


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## smokinj (Aug 4, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> The carpenter brought over a practically new HUSQVARNA 455 Rancher with an 18"bar. He wants $325 for it. Would this be a good mill saw for the price?





A rancher not going to hold up very long if milling. I would think 65cc and up and 65cc would need to be small softwood. 80cc and up would be idea.(just depends what your milling.


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## BobL (Aug 4, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> The carpenter brought over a practically new HUSQVARNA 455 Rancher with an 18"bar. He wants $325 for it. Would this be a good mill saw for the price?



US RRP is $415 and I will be surprised if you cannot get it for less than $400 with a warranty. You have to weigh up if the $75 saving is worth more than a warranty. 

As for it being a good milling saw, I would say it is a little on the small side.


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## jczv (Aug 4, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> The carpenter brought over a practically new HUSQVARNA 455 Rancher with an 18"bar. He wants $325 for it. Would this be a good mill saw for the price?



I bought a 394xp off this site for a little over $400 and I've seen one a month ago advertised in the trading post for $350. Both were 'freshened up' well used saws but mine has handled everything I've thrown at it (firewood cutting of 32" oak rounds and milling with a 42" bar). They aren't the perfect milling saw (outboard clutch) but they seem to me like a decent way to get into milling.


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## dlabrie (Sep 19, 2010)

Well, I bought the 455 Rancher for $300 just to have for cutting firewood. 

The Jonsered is toast. The crank is seized and the piston is shot. The shop wanted $422 to fix it! I took it to the school where I work and gave it to the small engines repair class. They are going to have a go at it. I will have to buy the parts.

I was wondering- would it would be worth buying one of those 52mm big bore kits to put on instead of just replacing the 48mm piston? If so, are there any other things to consider?

David


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## BobL (Sep 19, 2010)

dlabrie said:


> I was wondering- would it would be worth buying one of those 52mm big bore kits to put on instead of just replacing the 48mm piston? If so, are there any other things to consider?



Not to mill with it wouldn't - the rest of the saw is just not up to it.


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## jimdad07 (Sep 19, 2010)

I've been running a Dolmar 6400 with a 28" bar for milling (I have the mill set for a max cut of 20" right now with this saw), and it has not flinched while cutting 18" red oak, maple or poplar. After reading this thread, I might just go buy a bigger bar for my 045av that only cost me $40.00 and put that one on the mill, it's a heck of a lot bigger than my 6400. Glad this was posted.


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