# Holzfforma Portable Chainsaw Mill



## Bedford T (Mar 8, 2017)

I got this a few days ago and today did an unboxing video, what's in the box. The camera will give you a really good look at each part. Right now you can save a bunch of money on shipping as it is included. 

I have a MS660 that I built from a Huztl kit but I want a 070 to be it's permanent buddy. I still need a few other things like the supports and a rail system for the first cut.

The mill is made really well and as I said you can see that for yourself in the video. I look forward to putting it to work in the near future.


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## kimosawboy (Mar 8, 2017)

Just cause something is shiny does not make it Stainless.
I wonder how the Chinese came up with the European sounding name 'holzfforma"


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## KiwiBro (Mar 8, 2017)

Thanks for the video.


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## Funengineer (Mar 8, 2017)

Let's get that thing together Bedford T. Looking forward to your review on it. 


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## Bedford T (Mar 8, 2017)

kimosawboy said:


> Just cause something is shiny does not make it Stainless.
> I wonder how the Chinese came up with the European sounding name 'holzfforma"









Is that helpful?


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## SeMoTony (Mar 8, 2017)

Bedford T said:


> Is that helpful?


I worked for years in custom metal fab. Mostly stainless, some food grade FDA approved stuff. The shiny bits looked chrome ,china is honest like Korea. Truth in advertising did not start nor continue in china. Once you've tightened the nuts on the carriage bolts to hold the height adjuster to the rails, the screws to the lock nuts to hold the tube parallel to those rails, and the other carriage bolts to hold the grip w/plastic handle, then you'll be set to place the square tube in the height adjuster with the U-bolt, and the 5" bolts at the bottom to clamp on the bar. clamp on bar & adjust height tighten it all , double check setting, re-check depth and tightness. Enjoy safely


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## BobL (Mar 8, 2017)

I guess you are excited about the new mill but it's not exactly the best "what's in the box video" i've seen

2'35" to actually open the box!
3'50' before we see the first item, a pair of cheap rubber gloves?
5'20" before we see a piece of the actual mill.
Pieces constantly placed too close to the lens, i.e. cannot clearly see the whole item, 
Lots of video time showing nothing but pieces of bubble wrap.

A far more informative way to do this is to open the box, unpack/unwrap the whole thing, discard the wrapping and lay the pieces out on a large flat surface so all the pieces can be seen.
Then just take a few clear photos of groups of the pieces. 
Anything worth saying can be included in the post text.


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## Bedford T (Mar 8, 2017)

I would suggest fast forward would be of help to you. It's often a slider and you just quit moving it when you reach an area you are interested in. It was held close so you could see the piece.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

Nice. I'd love to see it fired up with the 660 when it get it running. I've been very inclined to build one of those saws just for the fun of it. I'll probably wait for the 070 to hit the shelves though. Our local Craigslist has just been flooded with Stihl clones at exorbitant prices. I have mixed feelings on clones as a build-it-yourself deal, but the dishonesty in the resales ticks me off.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Do you think they are kit saws or silver box saws on cl?


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

Good question. I really don't know, but I'd guess by the quantity they're not built from kits. There's a bunch of the Chinese brands also, like "Kingpark". The knockoff 661s are selling for $800 usually. They don't directly advertise as "Stihl".... "Brand new MS661 Chainsaw"...and then later in the ad it says "As used in Stihl Timbersports Series". Pretty shady, lol.

Get your rig up and running yet? Was the 660 your first build? I've done all sorts of engines over the years, from 1960s snowmobiles to modern overhead cam motorcycle engines, but I have never been inside a chainsaw before. I'm guessing these come with no sort of instructions!


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Bet they are not kits. They are taking a gamble customs has no mercy to a built saw, of course EPA who?

On me building I was one of the first to get a kit
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/huztl-ms660.300307/
Built several since then 440 and most recent 380.

I am putting the mill together, I am not sure if it's right. I am studying on it.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

Yeah, I imagine you're right on the assembled saws. 

As for the mill, the instructions that come straight from Granberg aren't the greatest. If it works it's probably right.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Here are the connections I have made. Not convinced I not should have more of the sleeves than I do. I meted them out to areas that you loosen frequently, or seemed that way.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

You've got it. There should be sleeves (threaded rod couplers) on the other u-bolt. That needs adjustment all the time. The cross brace up against the saw won't need to be moved so I would swap them from there. I usually use a ratcheting wrench for everything, but the sleeves are very handy if you use a chainsaw scrench to adjust things.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

Oh...and the upright on the saw end needs to be rotated 180 so the skids ride the log.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Do ya mean? Reversed on the photo labeled the skids and the swap on the sleeve in the photo to a nut, both nuts, on both sides? I think that would put the increments on same sides of the uprights come to think of it.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

In the first photo... the skids should face the log. Just pull the upright post out and put it back in the other way. It will put the depth scale in the right spot, too, so that it can be read off the top of the cross member.

The second photo is perfect, don't do anything there.

Back to the first photo....that cross member shouldn't need to move, at least not routinely. So I'd use the long nuts on the u-bolt for the depth adjustment instead of where the cross member bolts to the rail. Or you can pick up a couple more...your call.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Thanks


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

That looks absolutely identical to a Granberg, except slight color difference in the metal.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

It's nice and sturdy. At least there will be some pics of it assembled now. I was flying blind.

Glad I had some help to. Never seen one up close.


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## Derf (Mar 9, 2017)

I got mine a few weeks ago. It is a terrific copy of a Granberg. Some minor differences, but on the whole it had all the pieces, it fit together well, and was of moderately high quality. 
I contacted Huztl to see if they would sell longer sections of the rails since they could be used to duplicate Granberg's EZ rail system, but they said they had no plans to. Maybe if they hear enough demand, they will duplicate the rail system.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

That would be nice until you got the bill for shipping and you would hate it.


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## Derf (Mar 9, 2017)

Bedford T said:


> That would be nice until you got the bill for shipping and you would hate it.



They shipped the mill pretty cheaply. And the shipping on the saws isn't too bad. The EZ rail system might be long, but the aluminum is pretty light. Besides, pretty sure 'Ol Granberg is having his rails and such made in China and shipped over here. I think it's just a matter of time before Huztl teams up with a US distributor who can accept large shipments and send out domestically for cheap. I've seen that happen in many other areas with other products, so it isn't far fetched. And then we won't have to wait 4-6 weeks for delivery either.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

There are aluminum extrusions available on the internet at good prices. I haven't stumbled upon any that match Granberg's perfectly, but plenty that would work just fine. Keep in mind, also, that Granberg uses lighter rails on the mills 36" and under, and heavier 48" and up.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Derf said:


> They shipped the mill pretty cheaply. And the shipping on the saws isn't too bad. The EZ rail system might be long, but the aluminum is pretty light. Besides, pretty sure 'Ol Granberg is having his rails and such made in China and shipped over here. I think it's just a matter of time before Huztl teams up with a US distributor who can accept large shipments and send out domestically for cheap. I've seen that happen in many other areas with other products, so it isn't far fetched. And then we won't have to wait 4-6 weeks for delivery either.


My delivery took 10 days. I should have been clear it was the length that would be a problem. Granberg makes the stuff states side. 

They do have a slow boat they just don't use it. China Post is USPS and the other one is sent ups or FedEx or whatever. Longest of those took 2 weeks unless customs has a peek.

I am thinking about buying some channel and making my own. I read somewhere some 2x2 would make good rails and that would be toteable.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

I deal with more odd shaped logs and stumps than I do nice round symmetrical ones. Maybe I am missing something, but the rails just don't seem wide enough to be beneficial. I have the slabbing brackets or whatever they're called, but they're also too narrow for much of anything.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

My forest is full of perfectly shaped trees, all just the right size.


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm working on growing square ones that don't even need to be milled. Just cut to length and frame the barn.


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## Bedford T (Mar 9, 2017)

Lol


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## Bedford T (Mar 11, 2017)

I used mine today for 4 cuts on a log I had already removed a slab from it earlier that I cut by sight.

Got 3 - 2.25" 7ft slabs from that end of the log. It was the first real work out from my farmertec ms660 kit saw has had. The mill is awesome.

I bumped up the jet in the carb to a .76 and wow does it chew wood. It's just a monster.

I gotta get a rail system. My neighbor was with me and I think he is hooked so together we could put a serious hurt on these trees and logs. It's nice to see them turned into something like useful lumber. One of them will be a bench seat for me. I will post a 20 second video in a little while here.


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## Derf (Mar 11, 2017)

You gotta get a winch


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## Bedford T (Mar 11, 2017)

Why was that important?


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## BobL (Mar 11, 2017)

You don't need a winch but you should be applying a smooth constant pressure and avoid seesawing the whole mill side to side like you show in the video.
The constant nibbling and twisting will mess up the finish and will end up twisting the milll so that it racks way more than it should which will eventually further mess up the finish.

The chain should be set up so at WOT a constant pressure on the saw still makes a cut. If it does not bog down even when pushed hard, more should be taken off the rakers. If it does bog down then, (because you cannot raise the rakers) more should be taken off the cutters.


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## Bedford T (Mar 11, 2017)

It was a quick video of someone who just got their hands on it.


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## BobL (Mar 11, 2017)

Bedford T said:


> It was a quick video of someone who just got their hands on it.


Fair enough, but it does look like you were half way down a cut?


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## SeMoTony (Mar 12, 2017)

Boogedy_Man said:


> I'm working on growing square ones that don't even need to be milled. Just cut to length and frame the barn.


Japan uses 2 piece glass cubes two grow square melons. The smalness of living spaces also mini's fridges. Too much wasted space w/round mellons? How expensive to make 12' 2 piece squares to grow 9" square posts ? ??
Also as regard video; not only was the mill rocked horizontally, the back rail left corner came off the part of the log used as guide. That will cause grief in the form of excess work in making slab smooth and parallel top and bottom.Uneveness will repeat on next cut down. I have used extension ladder section as mill guide. On 1st cut blocking under low spots to keep cut as flat in three points as possible. Next cuts the ladder has good surface to lay on with hangover front & rear for good star!t and finish of cut, long as I wedge cut open to prevent pinch. We try to help others have the most ^ vertical learning curve. Good, safe fortune to you


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 12, 2017)

I'm guessing that log wasn't very flat. Looks like the bar came right through the top at one point. I agree on the rocking, and a 660 should chew that log up with ease.


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## BobL (Mar 12, 2017)

Boogedy_Man said:


> I'm guessing that log wasn't very flat. Looks like the bar came right through the top at one point. I agree on the rocking, and a 660 should chew that log up with ease.



I didn't pick that up but when I went back and had a look I also spotted a couple of other things
The mill rails are not sitting flat on top of the log.
In the video the gap opens and closes with the rocking of the saw.
The bar also looks like it's not parallel to the mill rails.
This means the bar clamp pads are not sitting flat/square on the bar and may then slip.
It is possible to run the mill with and angled bar (e.g. making splayed weather boards) but it's better for the mill and bar if the bar clamp pads havethe appropriate angles cut/ground into them 

I realise this is a demo but for all the newbies out there, this kind of operation will significantly stress the mill, bar and chain.


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## Derf (Mar 12, 2017)

BobL said:


> I didn't pick that up but when I went back and had a look I also spotted a couple of other things
> The mill rails are not sitting flat on top of the log.
> In the video the gap opens and closes with the rocking of the saw.
> The bar also looks like it's not parallel to the mill rails.
> ...



TL: DR

In other words, you're doing it wrong


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## Bedford T (Mar 12, 2017)

It would be great if ya could work on those reading skills.

I said
"I used mine today for 4 cuts on a log I had already removed a slab from it earlier that I cut by sight."

First sentence out. To explain the imperfections. The log was far from flat, by the end the bar nose was exposed. If I had understood how much this would have troubled everyone I might have not posted it. It was not an instructional video and I did not do a single thing wrong.

Several months ago I needed a slab of wood and I cut it free hand. It left the log way far from flat but I got what I needed and having a mill now it was used to true it up best possible way so I could use the rest of the log. And it worked out. All this was meant to do was show my kit saw mounted on my mill making noise. You even marked it up. Omg lol


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## SeMoTony (Mar 12, 2017)

Bedford T said:


> I would suggest fast forward would be of help to you. It's often a slider and you just quit moving it when you reach an area you are interested in. It was held close so you could see the piece.


No need to uproar with our instructor from Perth. If you don't know he instructed at secondary school IIRC then had a sabatical and came back physic science IIRC proffesor college level before retiring a few years ago. I learn from my mistakes only when I get over denying I made them. He also has taken the time and expended the effort to evaluate AS member's chain cutters pictures and repost with yellow red or blue lines showing directly how to improve the sharpening. A man of very admirable character IMHO


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 12, 2017)

I was with you on the log not being true and what it wouldn't sit flat, but you really need some form of rail to make it right again.

I wouldn't feel bad about a little criticism. It's good info. In fact, makes me think I should make my own video and ask for some feedback.


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## Bedford T (Mar 12, 2017)

criticism is welcome when it's in context. See the video and saying that was outta whack you must have been trying something different and then the criticisms to put it in perspective. It just kept going without perspective. So I said something. I did see a mill Bob had some quick disconnects on and I got he was advanced at that point.

Honestly I was surprised. Who wants that kind of attention when you were just sharing a snippet. I found a bunch to be troubled about. The ad says adjustable to 14". Wrong. The rails toe in the shorter you go. I saw that as I used it. I also realized that I need a rail system but for the cut being tried up close except at the end I found it acceptable once until I could get what I needed. The cutting position was wrong. There was no safe way to have sure footing so the cut was made with the top of the bar. The rest of the log can be milled from the correct side. So all this to say there is more to it. And I am sure that's true everytime


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 12, 2017)

People want to be helpful, but they also don't want someone to see that and think it's normal. 

Not sure what you mean on the rails toeing in. You might need to loosen a bar clamp and get the whole mess square before tightening it back down.


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## SeMoTony (Mar 12, 2017)

Bedford T said:


> criticism is welcome when it's in context. See the video and saying that was outta whack you must have been trying something different and then the criticisms to put it in perspective. It just kept going without perspective. So I said something. I did see a mill Bob had some quick disconnects on and I got he was advanced at that point.
> 
> Honestly I was surprised. Who wants that kind of attention when you were just sharing a snippet. I found a bunch to be troubled about. The ad says adjustable to 14". Wrong. The rails toe in the shorter you go. I saw that as I used it. I also realized that I need a rail system but for the cut being tried up close except at the end I found it acceptable once until I could get what I needed. The cutting position was wrong. There was no safe way to have sure footing so the cut was made with the top of the bar. The rest of the log can be milled from the correct side. So all this to say there is more to it. And I am sure that's true everytime


There is what most do cut in "normal" direction and add oil near tip. i go the other way, cutting with the chain going away from saw throwing chips out other side of cut. In part because that is the part of the bar that the powerhead oils. To each their own, even if they choose to learn only from their own errors in process. On the other hand no one I have heard on this forum has claimed to have ALL the answers! Just what it is. We offer our experience to lesson the negatives 4 U. Learn or not is your choice


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 12, 2017)

Interesting about cutting the "wrong" way. I've never even thought of that. Then again, I started on a small mill with no nose bracket and it wouldn't work so hot with that setup, unless you wanted the saw to auto-eject from the log. It makes the jumpiness make a little more sense, too. You almost need to swap the posts if you wanted to do that all the time.


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## Bedford T (Mar 12, 2017)

I approach things warily. I looked at the situation for an entire day. the mill the log the saw. Since milling is new to me I thought I could make it work once. I imagine that you are in the woods and you want that log. I am betting you gotta problem solve taking it some times. My first attempt was similar and was pleased with the outcome and I learned from it. I saved the wood with no drama and safely

I might be happy with another handle across the rails at the open end when using a 24" chainsaw bar. I can see having a 32" bar for it as well. I got the mill so I could analyze it to death. Usually in the end I wind up pleased in all aspects when I handle it like that. Those adjuster that the UK Company sawtroll has looks real attractive. In that same thread Bob has his take on them. Real nice stuff


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 12, 2017)

They are quite nice. I have a coffee full of bicycle skewers I thought of using to rig something up. It's also handy that a scrench fits everything on the mills, but I usually use a reversible gearwrench for all my adjustments and it makes pretty quick work out of things.


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## Bedford T (Mar 12, 2017)

It's designed simply. I noticed those sleeves are going to be hard to keep up with in the woods. I wondered if having them bright orange might make them easier to see when they get dropped. Does your bar have a sprocket on it?


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## Boogedy_Man (Mar 12, 2017)

I have a sprocket nose bar on one mill and a double ender with a roller handle on the other. Orange spray paint is probably not a bad call. I lose everything in sawdust...


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## Bedford T (Mar 13, 2017)

I read somewhere it might have been on Madsen that a 2x12 made a great rail system. Not to drag in the woods but near by I would imagine.. the more I look the more options there are. 

Any of you read "chainsaw lumber making" by will malloff 1982. Looks to have it all to get you started from tree selection, felling the tree, milling start to finish. I am reading it as I have time.


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## Derf (Mar 14, 2017)

Yes, I have that book, and Will has a method explained in it. There are many ways to skin a cat and lots of ways to create a rail system. 
Will even has a winch on his setup, though he stands at the far end of the log and winches the saw toward him, instead of putting the winch on the mill and walking behind it.


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## JohnWayne (Mar 19, 2017)

The mill looks good enough to get the job done. I think I'll order one and do a side by side comparison to my granberg.


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## TreeJoe (Mar 22, 2017)

When you get around to it please do a comparison it would be helpful to see.


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## SeMoTony (Mar 24, 2017)

JohnWayne said:


> The mill looks good enough to get the job done. I think I'll order one and do a side by side comparison to my granberg.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Maybe getting ahead of your process of comparing but like the idea


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## alabama xl (Sep 28, 2018)

SeMoTony said:


> I worked for years in custom metal fab. Mostly stainless, some food grade FDA approved stuff. The shiny bits looked chrome ,china is honest like Korea. Truth in advertising did not start nor continue in china. Once you've tightened the nuts on the carriage bolts to hold the height adjuster to the rails, the screws to the lock nuts to hold the tube parallel to those rails, and the other carriage bolts to hold the grip w/plastic handle, then you'll be set to place the square tube in the height adjuster with the U-bolt, and the 5" bolts at the bottom to clamp on the bar. clamp on bar & adjust height tighten it all , double check setting, re-check depth and tightness. Enjoy safely



I have also worked extensively with stainless in the past. I just ordered one of these, and the parts that are supposed to be stainless look chromed, but I was wondering if perhaps they were electropolished? That process definitely gives a weird shine to the metal. I don't care one way or another if the parts are stainless, since I'm not going to leave this outside and I don't particularly enjoy working in the rain.


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## Derf (Sep 28, 2018)

They are likely aluminum, the mill isn’t that heavy.


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## alabama xl (Sep 28, 2018)

After reading this thread, I went ahead and ordered one of these the other day. I ordered from huztl's website direct, on monday the 24th. The mill was drop shipped from new jersey, and arrived at my home in alabama by lunch time on the 27th. Free shipping, and I think I paid just hair over $101 for it. I can see where they cut a few corners on it compared to the granbergs, but the think went together smoothly, and looks like it will work just fine. The cross pieces are cast aluminum rather than machined from a block, but they seem true and square enough to do the job. The only part that I'm slightly concerned about are the clamping surfaces that clamp onto the bar, and whether they are relatively true to one another. If they're not, it will be a relatively easy job to clean them up. There are also a number of sharp edges that I'm going to knock down, particularly on the bar end guard and the edges of the guide blocks. The numbers in the upright bars are plagued by burrs sticking out, but not enough to really bother me at the moment

They seem to have given me a bunch of extra flat washers and no lock washers, but this is easy to remedy. They also gave me mostly short length coupling nuts and no nylon filled nuts for the center handle that isn't supposed to move once you get it set where you need it. 

Final picture shows some very minor damage to the end of one of the extrusions. also some minor abrasions on other parts that aren't going to affect the operation of the mill in anyway. It's nothing that I can't fix, but it would have been nice if they packed this stuff a little better.

Waiting on a new bar and chain for my saw, and then I'm gonna try this thing out. I would still be interested to see side by side comparison with the granberg mill if anyone has one to photograph next to one of these.


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## alabama xl (Sep 28, 2018)

Derf said:


> They are likely aluminum, the mill isn’t that heavy.


the bars are aluminum. the uprights and parts that grab the chainsaw bar are definitely steel, whether stainless or chrome plated. The parts aren't big enough or thick enough to be particularly heavy. The welds are a dead giveaway as some kind of steel also.


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## alabama xl (Sep 28, 2018)

I'm still trying to figure out what the piece of plexiglass/polycarbonate is for, and which end it goes on. I'm guessing it's to go on the outboard end by the bar tip to help keep stray hands out of there? it gives me a use for the extra 4 carriage bolts at least


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## ammoaddict (Oct 7, 2018)

alabama xl said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what the piece of plexiglass/polycarbonate is for, and which end it goes on. I'm guessing it's to go on the outboard end by the bar tip to help keep stray hands out of there? it gives me a use for the extra 4 carriage bolts at least


Mine didn't have the plexiglass piece with it.

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## Bedford T (Oct 7, 2018)

That looks much better than the first ones they sold. From the photos they are using better anchor system, and the steel. I bet the Plexi is to deflect chips. Mine sure did not come with plexiglass. The ruler looks easier to read. I am starting to have trouble with my anchors.

chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy


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## alabama xl (Oct 7, 2018)

Bedford T said:


> I am starting to have trouble with my anchors.



The little carriage bolts? Or the long coupling nuts that lock them down?


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