# Newbie with two big cherry trees



## LostInTheWoods (Oct 30, 2006)

Hi everyone. Brand new to all this and need some help! The builder in our neighborhood up-rooted a few trees, two of which I believe are black cherries. They are both big, 30-40 ft with long strait trunks. I'd say the base of the bigger one (at the rootball) is about 3ft across and the smaller one 1.5-2 ft. When I heard they were cherry I thought, wonderful, I'll make a table out of it. Now I learn there is milling, drying, etc to get it to this stage. And this is all before I try to find some way to get them cut and onto my property. So a few questions:

1. How can I be sure it is a cherry?
2. I have very limited means to cut (Sthil MS 210) and haul away (wagon). Can these be cut into 8-10' lengths and still be meaningful for furniture?
3. What have I stumbled on? Is this a great find and should I go the extra effort to take as much of it as possible??

Thanks


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## gumneck (Oct 30, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Hi everyone. Brand new to all this and need some help! The builder in our neighborhood up-rooted a few trees, two of which I believe are black cherries. They are both big, 30-40 ft with long strait trunks. I'd say the base of the bigger one (at the rootball) is about 3ft across and the smaller one 1.5-2 ft. When I heard they were cherry I thought, wonderful, I'll make a table out of it. Now I learn there is milling, drying, etc to get it to this stage. And this is all before I try to find some way to get them cut and onto my property. So a few questions:
> 
> 1. How can I be sure it is a cherry?
> 2. I have very limited means to cut (Sthil MS 210) and haul away (wagon). Can these be cut into 8-10' lengths and still be meaningful for furniture?
> ...



If its as you say.....Yep! As for Id. Get some leaf samples if they are still "green"/ living. Google up black cherry leaf and you should be able to match/disprove. Also, you might look around the area of your downed tree and see if there are any black cherries near by. If this was black cherry, there should be some offspring sprung.


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## Ianab (Oct 30, 2006)

> 2. I have very limited means to cut (Sthil MS 210) and haul away (wagon). Can these be cut into 8-10' lengths and still be meaningful for furniture?



8' length logs is still OK for furniture, once you get the boards dry whats the first thing you do? Cut them into small pieces right. 
Your ms210 will handle crosscutting them fine as long as it's nice and sharp and you aren't in a hurry. You will need to cut the bigest ones from both sides, and get some plastic wedges to stop the bar getting pinched.
Moving them is going to be the big problem, they will still be HEAVY. A nice strong trailer, some ramps and a winch is an option. 
Other option is to find a portable miller who will bring his mill to the logs

Cheers

Ian


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

where are you in VA?? There aren't many if any black cherries in the tidewater region of virginia. Look on the bottom of the leaves if they are still there; black cherry should have a fuzzy center vein. Virginia choke cherry trees, prunus virginiana, doesn't have the fuzz. If you are in doubt whether there is enough fuzz, it isnt black cherry. Prunus serotina has definite fuzz on the central vein. HTH.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

One thing you need to think about if you get it cut into lengths is coating the ends with a wax based sealant---anchor seal---its cheap. Spend the money. I'm wishing I hadnt used aluminum oil paint which I was told by numerous sources would work and not stain. I've got some serious checking in some walnut.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 31, 2006)

meant to add; If you're close, maybe I could help for a portion of the boards. Sounds like you've got more than you can handle if the base is over 24"!!!!! Let me know. I'm just west of Charlottesville. I don't have a lot of time, and I'm new at this, but I've found things go smoother with just about anything when you've got two sets of hands.  Happy milling! 

PS whatever you do, dont let the developer just burn [email protected]!!!!!!


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## LostInTheWoods (Oct 31, 2006)

*Some pics of the tree to help identify*

Here are some pictures. Can anyone identify what kind of a cherry this is?


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## hautions11 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Cherry*

I am far from an expert, but I have a lot of Cherry trees in my yard and that looks like wild black cherry to me. Nice looking log. Any other votes?


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## woodshop (Oct 31, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Here are some pictures. Can anyone identify what kind of a cherry this is?


Yup, looks like the good stuff, black cherry (prunus serotina). Clear dry 4/4 S4S cherry goes for between $5 and $7 a bd ft here, and a lot more for wide pieces, or thick stuff like 8/4. Jump on it if you can, don't let them cut it into firewood and burn it up. If I wasn't a good 3-4 hours north of you I'd come down and help you clean it up if I could take some of it home. 

mini post glossary for newbies... 
S4S = surfaced 4 sides, run through planer and edged
4/4 = 1 inch thick
8/4 = 2 inch thick
bd ft = board foot, basically 1x12x12, or 144 cubic inches


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## dustytools (Oct 31, 2006)

Around my parts that is what we call a wild cherry. Its hard to find a nice straight one anymore.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 31, 2006)

It does look like the real thing, but the true indicator is on the underside of the leaf. I've got trees in my yard that really look just like black cherry, and are actually virginia choke cherry, or prunus virginiana--. I was very surprised to find that out after I talked to a botanist about the 'true indicator'. FWIW, I do think that what you have is a black cherry. The bark is pretty indicative that it is a black cherry as well. Most of the virginia cherries that I've seen also dont have quite as distinctive bark--they're more like a crackly version of the smooth bark at the top of the tree.


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## gumneck (Nov 1, 2006)

Hey Lost in the Woods,

How about flippin one of those leaves over and snapping a pic of that. Like Aquanator, I've also read where black cherry has "hairs" on the underside. Regardless it looks like a beautiful find and will make some nice lumber from. 

I ask, because I have some (what I had hoped was black cherry seedlings) but is probably some other cherry. I wanted to transfer these seedlings into an area where I can let them grow for the next thirty years. Dont want to do it if its some other inferior cherry. 

Tks.
Tom


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## Dale (Nov 1, 2006)

*Yepper...*

That is guaranteedee Black Cherry my man. Not what we call Wild Cherry. Worth a few Bucks.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 2, 2006)

*Ok, next steps....?*

Guys, really appreciate the identification help. Couple things....

1. I'll snap a few more pic including the back side of those leaves as requested. Just can't get there until Sat as i'm on the road now.

2. I really need help now from the standpoint of where to cut. There must be some specific rules about good places in order to maintain best milling logs and minimum lenghts to cut out. Also, I am not able to haul away large sections like 20' or something. I'm looking at having a small flat bed (like for commercial mowing equip) or a pick up.

3. How do I need to treat this stuff once cut? Should/can it be milled right away or do I need to let the full log sit? If I can mill then what should I do with the lumber once cut?

Thanks!


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## Woodsurfer (Nov 2, 2006)

For my own use, I like to cut 8 to 10 foot sections...that's plenty long enough for any furniture project. Try to eyeball the tree and cut at the middle of the tightest curved spots - so the resulting pieces are as straight as possible. Cherry usually has some kinks - cut there.

Lots of advice here on drying, anchorseal, stickering etc...

Congrats! That's nice wood...


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## gumneck (Nov 2, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Guys, really appreciate the identification help. Couple things....
> 
> 1. I'll snap a few more pic including the back side of those leaves as requested. Just can't get there until Sat as i'm on the road now.
> 
> ...




RE #3. You can mill it right away. In fact preferred b/c your more likely to wait too long and do like my dad has done and let good logs ruin for not being on top of it. If your gonna wait, you better get it up off the ground and seal those ends up. 

Good luck, definately appreciate it if you get those underside of leaves pics. Tks, Tom


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## Sprig (Nov 2, 2006)

Oooooooo, thats nice, jump in with both feet man and cut to what you can handle. An option to endsealing (if so consider paintin' on melted wax, I think that is the best/most sensible option I've heard around here and won't stain it) and slow curing might be to find out if there is someone kiln drying lumber nearby, maybe worth it to build a small drying box yourself, lots of options for that and cheap to do from what I understand, whatever you choose I'd like to see what you make of them.


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## woodshop (Nov 2, 2006)

Woodsurfer said:


> For my own use, I like to cut 8 to 10 foot sections...that's plenty long enough for any furniture project. Try to eyeball the tree and cut at the middle of the tightest curved spots - so the resulting pieces are as straight as possible. Cherry usually has some kinks - cut there.
> QUOTE]
> ...pretty much what I would say... good advice. I rarely cut more than 8ft though, gets too hard to handle, sticker and store. As for your query about "what to do with the lumber once cut"... gee that's easy, give it to a woodworker like myself :hmm3grin2orange:


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## sundropkid (Nov 2, 2006)

Hello lost..Where in va are you located? Im in va also and could help you cut and prep your logs for milling..100% free help if your reasonably close..

scott


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 2, 2006)

woodshop said:


> ...pretty much what I would say... good advice. I rarely cut more than 8ft though, gets too hard to handle, sticker and store.
> 
> 
> > Yup- I have some 8/4 x 27" x 20' pine slabs I cut for table or bar tops. What a PITA to get them into the drying barn. Should be worth it though (I hope).


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## Sawyer Rob (Nov 2, 2006)

You can see how i milled a really nice one here... http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=4378744

Rob


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## gumneck (Nov 5, 2006)

Tks for posting your pics S.R. Enjoyed your photo albums.

tom


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 5, 2006)

*Pic of the leaf back and tree*

Here is a pic of the back of the leaf. let me know what you think. 

Also I added a pic of the larger cherry. I more formally measured it too. From rootball to about 23' it tapers very gradually from 20'' to 13", it then stays about 13" pretty evenly for another 14'. Not sure what that translates into as far as rough board feet but maybe one of you can say. The second tree is roughly half the overall measures of the first. 

I can't get my hands on any wax end cap seal for a few days and I cut today. Am I at significant risk of checking and bd ft loss? Can anyone recommend and interim solution until I can get the ends covered?

Stay tuned. Next I am looking for someone who can mill and kiln dry so I can get the table project started (need a good wood worker too) and then I will dispose of the rest of the rough cut boards.


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## woodshop (Nov 5, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> I can't get my hands on any wax end cap seal for a few days and I cut today. Am I at significant risk of checking and bd ft loss? Can anyone recommend and interim solution until I can get the ends covered?


As others will tell you on here, latex paint works almost as well. You can often get exterior gallons of it at the big box stores pretty cheap if you grab from the "returns/wrong color" bin. I put it on real thick, sometimes several coats. It is best if you paint it right away, the same day you cut it if possible.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 5, 2006)

*Questions on latex idea for sealing*

Thanks for the tip on the latex paint. Have some stuff in the garage. Any old latex paint work? I assume this means i will just have to saw off the part that is covred as it will be permanantly stained? Also, is there anything else I can do after the paint drys (like maybe cover with saran wrap really well to keep weather off and moisture in??) Just trying to think creatively)

Am cutting today and am right in the middle of it. Is going great. Beautiful 8' logs coming out.

Thanks!!!!!


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## woodshop (Nov 5, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Thanks for the tip on the latex paint. Have some stuff in the garage. Any old latex paint work? I assume this means i will just have to saw off the part that is covred as it will be permanantly stained? Also, is there anything else I can do after the paint drys (like maybe cover with saran wrap really well to keep weather off and moisture in??) Just trying to think creatively)
> 
> Am cutting today and am right in the middle of it. Is going great. Beautiful 8' logs coming out.
> 
> Thanks!!!!!


Any exterior latex paint will work. It does have to be latex however, because it is water based. It does not stain the wood, just covers the end. Latex paint is more of a covering, not penetrating. At any rate, rarely in the shop do you use the VERY end of a rough board. You are usually cutting off at least the last 1/4 inch or so when squaring up your board. No need for saran wrap or anything like that. Just paint the end of the log. The main reason fresh milled boards warp and twist are drying too fast. When you first sticker them, keep out of direct sun and wind for a few weeks at least. THEN you can open the stack up, and as long as it is under roof or top of stack is covered so rain/leaves/snow etc don't sit right on stack, then you are OK. You will also need weight on your stack. I use round stackable concrete blocks I made by pouring concrete into buckets. Large stones, bags of unopened concrete... anything heavy that will weight the stack down. Even then, you will likely get SOME warp and twist. This is simply the nature of the beast. It is why I mill 5/4 to end up with 3/4 after running through the jointer and planer.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 9, 2006)

Hey I hadn't updated you all in a while so here's the deal. As I mentioned over on "Old guy found a litte cherry log: Pics tomorrow", I am getting a 'dozer to move my five bigs logs to the side today I hope. From there I plan to get the mill guy over sat morning to pick'um up. I guess we cut next week. I'll post pics of the smaller ones up on my driveway and the bigger logs once they are moved (and before they are cut) so you can see what I have. As this is the first time I have done this I am getting pretty excited. Hope it all works out. Time will tell I guess.

Also - I saw over on the other post about cutting away not only the bark but also the "sapwood". What exactly is that so I know? Thanks!!


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Prunus serotina,
> common name Wild Cherry.



What about the "fuzz" that is supposed to be on the underneath of the leaf to distinguish it from choke cherry?

Is the fuzz only there in the springtime?


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## woodshop (Nov 9, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Also - I saw over on the other post about cutting away not only the bark but also the "sapwood". What exactly is that so I know? Thanks!!



Quick and dirty... heartwood is the (generally but not always) darker wood in the center of the tree, and sapwood is the (generally but not always) lighter colored wood in the outer portion of the log, right beneath the bark. Technically both are dead wood, although sapwood is still used by the tree to transport nutrients. Heartwood is not, and can be thought of as the "trash can" section of the tree as well as giving it structure because it is where the tree deposits extractives, which are what give the heartwood it's color. In some wood, the difference between the two is not as great, and both are used for furniture etc, but with wood like cherry and walnut, only the darker colored heartwood (pink cherry, brown walnut) is of much value to the woodworker. 

When I said in the other post that I cut away sapwood as well as bark when milling, I meant the sapwood RIGHT next to the bark, which as I said is more likely to contain bugs. No need to cut away all the sapwood in a cherry or walnut log when milling for example. Sorry for the confusion.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 9, 2006)

I think, from looking at the cherries on my mom&dad's place, the fuzz is only there when the leaves are green & growing. I don't see any now on the reddened & browned leaves on the ground. 

The central vein on the underside of the leaf has almost a brownish velvety fuzz on it---very thin--not thick at all. It would probably go unnoticed if you weren't looking for it. You kind of have to compare it to a choke cherry leaf to see it, but once you do, its really an obvious difference. I found that from a PhD botanist's I.D. book. I had been under the impression that the sawtooth edges of the leaves were different with the two species, but after comparing two obviously different trees, the edges were the same. 

This may be confined to the trees in my area as the edges are concerned, but the fuzz I've seen in Allegheny & Bath Co., as well as in WVA. HTH, and didn't confuse more. There are actually more than 2 species of cherry in VA, which further confuses the issue.


Gumneck: I think geographically you don't have black cherry trees in Chesapeake, but I may be wrong on this. just my 2cents.


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> I think, from looking at the cherries on my mom&dad's place, the fuzz is only there when the leaves are green & growing. I don't see any now on the reddened & browned leaves on the ground.
> 
> The central vein on the underside of the leaf has almost a brownish velvety fuzz on it---very thin--not thick at all. It would probably go unnoticed if you weren't looking for it. You kind of have to compare it to a choke cherry leaf to see it, but once you do, its really an obvious difference. I found that from a PhD botanist's I.D. book. I had been under the impression that the sawtooth edges of the leaves were different with the two species, but after comparing two obviously different trees, the edges were the same.
> 
> ...



I'll cut into a piece I thought was Black Cherry and post back. I have some pictures of some offspring that I'm sure came from a neighbors tree that Isabell blew down.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 9, 2006)

Thanks to woodshop for the clarification on the sapwood. Totally makes sense and when we get this stuff milled I'll upload pics and maybe we can all talk on what we think is good out of it and y'all can recommend what we might use for the table.

For you folks on the identification issues above, check out TreeCo in post #24, I think he feels this is wild cherry.

Also...I have to laugh, I have been trying to get the builder to use the BobCat to help me with the big logs. Turns out my mill guy has one and will bring it round on Saturday morning so we can get this stuff moved.

Will keep you all informed on the progress.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 9, 2006)

i.d. is certainly an issue with this one. Wild cherry could be either, unless you go to species level. The same holds true with identification of anything; tropical marine fish have different common names, for example, depending on what location they're from, and even those vary. Latin nomenclature is a standard. The names don't change. A Prunus serotina tree may be known as a black cherry, wild cherry, or whatever. Prunus serotina distinguishes the tree as a wild species of cherry---not the black cherry we as humans eat as fruit. That is a different species altogether, which I don't know off hand. Prunus virginiana--commonly known as choke cherry, fire cherry, false cherry, wild cherry, etc. doesn't have as pink a heartwood, and just isn't as pretty. It also doesn't grow to nearly the size of the serotina. In northern states, it doesn't grow much bigger than a bush, apparently.

I'm not trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about, because I don't!!!!!

I just went through the whole name confusion and i.d. bit with some trees that I wanted to mill up a few months ago. I wanted to be absolutely positively sure before I cut. So, I did a little reading......

cheers.


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2006)

Here's some pics of what I hope is Black Cherry b/c the log came from my neighbor's yard and I have tons of small trees in some beds that I hope to transplant to a farm situation. 

Hope they are clear. For some reason the camera's focus is sucking.


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2006)

*Offspring*

These are some samples of the trees I want to transplant. The first I wont be trying to transplant as its bigger than I want to move. Anyway, appreciate the opinions or definate Id on what you think I have.


Tree 3 and 4 are oaks I didn't mean to post.
Tks
Tom


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## aquan8tor (Nov 9, 2006)

Looks like you've still got green leaves down there!! Here's a pic I found. Hopefully it'll clear things up.


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> Looks like you've still got green leaves down there!! Here's a pic I found. Hopefully it'll clear things up.



Yeah, I've seen the "fuzz" in webpage pics but not on my trees in question. Maybe its only there in the springtime. 

Anyway, I'd like to get a definitive answer so I'll know if I need to save space in my misting bed next year for starting from cuttings. If so, anyone close by have a Black Cherry I can get some cuttings from?


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 11, 2006)

*Here they are!*

Here are two pics of the final stuff. The first is of the stumps, and check it out, there is some Sasafrass! The second pic is the who haul.

I have figured, conservatively, I have 360 bd ft of cherry and 68 bd ft of the Sass. I'm told the sass is worth more than the cherry. True?


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## woodshop (Nov 11, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Here are two pics of the final stuff. The first is of the stumps, and check it out, there is some Sasafrass! The second pic is the who haul.
> 
> I have figured, conservatively, I have 360 bd ft of cherry and 68 bd ft of the Sass. I'm told the sass is worth more than the cherry. True?


Maybe there is a local specialty market down there for Sassafras for whatever reason, don't know. Is sassafras worth more than cherry anyplace else? ...don't think so, at least not here in the Northeast, not even close. I've made a few things with sassafras in the woodshop, picture frames among them. Kindof a greenish brown wood. Kindof dull compared with oak or ash or even soft maple. Nice stash of logs you got in that truck though. How do you plan to mill them?


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 11, 2006)

woodshop said:


> Nice stash of logs you got in that truck though. How do you plan to mill them?



Thanks, I'm pretty hopefull. Anyway, that is the question now. We want to make a table with some of the cherry and then will sell the rest. The table we want to be about 7-8' long and thick. Issues, suggestions? 

Also, for the remainder, any recommendation as to what to rough cut at so as to be the most ameanable to a buyer???? 

One last question: We have some stuff in the driveway that the mill guy said was not worth taking. They range from 8" (smallest) to 12" (thickest) and are between 4' and 6' long, all strait. I figured he said leave them because they re not worth it for board. I am wondering if I can use them for the table legs or anything else. Have several of them.

Thanks


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## woodshop (Nov 11, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> One last question: We have some stuff in the driveway that the mill guy said was not worth taking. They range from 8" (smallest) to 12" (thickest) and are between 4' and 6' long, all strait. I figured he said leave them because they re not worth it for board. I am wondering if I can use them for the table legs or anything else. Have several of them.
> Thanks


Only problem with logs that small is when you mill them, there is USUALLY not a lot of good wood outside of the crappy boxed center pith area of that log. So if you want to make table legs for example, you might have pith/knots to deal with, not something you want in a table leg. 

As for how thick to mill... depends on the wood and some other factors, but in general, (this is for air drying) I slice 3/8 more than the finished dimension I want. If you dry it correctly that usually takes care of loss for shrinkage and S4S. For stable quartersawn stuff, you can get away with 1/4 inch more.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 15, 2006)

*Milling and drying specifics*

So the cherry logs are over at the sawmiller. He'll get to them next week. I want to get prepped for the cutting. I spoke to a local woodworker who makes lots of stuff including tables. He recommended cutting the following way"

Table top boards: 1" to 1.5" thick. Sound about right?
Apron: 6/4. Necessary to be this thick?
Legs: 12/4. Rough because that means like three years drying what I just cut in order to use for this table. Suggestions?

My overall issue is I'm not sure how to best get these different cut out of all the logs I have. Idea?

On drying:

I was at home deport and saw that they sell 1" high by 2" wide by 8' long wood. Not sure what this was for but looks good for stickering once cut to the right lenghts. See any issues with this?

Also, how much weight is the right weight for the stack? Don't want to over or under do it.

Sorry for all the questions. I know a lot of this is trial and eoor for a newbie but I really really want to goof as little up as possible. have already put a lot of work into the logs and will be putting some good money into the milling and table. 

Thanks!


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## woodshop (Nov 15, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Table top boards: 1" to 1.5" thick. Sound about right?
> Apron: 6/4. Necessary to be this thick?
> Legs: 12/4. Rough because that means like three years drying what I just cut in order to use for this table. Suggestions?


Apron is rarely thicker than the top of a table. Also it doesn't take three years to dry 12/4. Yes takes longer than 4/4 or 6/4, but not three years, not even two full years. 


LostInTheWoods said:


> My overall issue is I'm not sure how to best get these different cut out of all the logs I have. Idea?


An art unto itself... quick and dirty, you want the quartersawn or riftsawn (more stable) stuff for the table top, rest for apron and undertable supports and glueblocks etc. Legs should NOT be cut from the center pith area of the log as that tends to have lesser quality and knot ridden wood.


LostInTheWoods said:


> I was at home deport and saw that they sell 1" high by 2" wide by 8' long wood. Not sure what this was for but looks good for stickering once cut to the right lenghts. See any issues with this?


Do you mean 1x2 furring strips, which are actually 3/4 x 1 1/2? If so, that would give you stickers a little thicker than needed. The thick 1 1/2 stickers would cover more wood than needed, more chance of rot, discoloration and sticker marks. Either rip them to 1 inch wide, giving you 3/4 x 1, or buy wider wood that when ripped give you somewhere close to that. 

Can't really have too MUCH weight unless you are crushing your pile. I put a block of concrete (around 40 lbs) every couple feet. On some of my piles though, just put the heavy 12/4 beams on top layers, and that is enough right there to keep things from twisting up too much.


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## scottr (Nov 16, 2006)

*Black Cherry*

Tom , one of my tree books shows that black cherry does grow in your area . Also found this http://www.dof.virginia.gov/index.h...tification then scroll down to Black Cherry .


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## gumneck (Nov 17, 2006)

tks Scott, I'll try that web address.

I know that it grows 100 miles west of us b/c a timber cruiser let my folks know of some that was in a woodlot they had cut. It would seem reasonable that there could be some here as well.


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## hautions11 (Nov 17, 2006)

Lost,

I don't know what style table you have in mind, but I will share some lumber dimensions off of a cherry table I built.








The top started 1 and 1/2 and was planed down to 1 and 1/8. The apron was 1 and 1/8 planed down to 3/4. The legs are 3 X 3 finished. They are glued up from 1 1/2 stock and then tapered on 2 sides. Tough to find thick stock and wait for it to dry. I have had better luck with glue-ups. More stable. This table also has a 24" leaf in the middle that is not shown in this pic


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## gumneck (Nov 18, 2006)

*Found the "fuzz"*

Alright, I found a tree under a pine on other side of yard that has the "fuzz" on the underside of the leaf. Took some pics that probably aren't clear enough to tell via computer but its there.

Confirmed "Black Cherry". Now I have my tree to propagate from in the mist bed.


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## scottr (Nov 18, 2006)

*Cherry*

Tom , are you going to plant cherry trees where the pecan trees blew over ?


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## woodshop (Nov 18, 2006)

gumneck said:


> Confirmed "Black Cherry". Now I have my tree to propagate from in the mist bed.


Keep in mind that black cherry (prunus serotina) only grows WELL in well drained good rich soil. Not knocking some of the clay soils you folks have down there in some parts of Virginia (I'm familiar with them because I did some logging down there years ago) but those types of soils don't support black cherry or walnut very well. On the other hand, Virginia is a big state, lots of variation, and there are parts of Virginia that DO have rich soils where cherry and walnut thrive. As a matter of fact, some of the clearcutting we did down there, mostly for SYP and white pine used in paper making, also DID contain some cherry trees along with dogwood, gum and a lot of red maple mixed in among what was mostly pine.


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## gumneck (Nov 18, 2006)

scottr said:


> Tom , are you going to plant cherry trees where the pecan trees blew over ?



Basically so, but a different area of the farm where the pecan trees are. The same place the grape vineyard is and it drains about the same. There is already some cherry where I've got a place disked up(have not disked around the trees already there). I've been cutting some gum out of this area alongside a fish pond. The gum is on the edge/banks of the pond and I'm just going out a little into the field to plant the cherry there. I have some oak that I'll mix in too. I'll have to put out some tree protectors b/c the deer will rub em raw.


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## gumneck (Nov 19, 2006)

Here's some short pieces of what I hope is cherry I milled today. The "ladder" pic is the second cut. Might be enough to make a jewelry box or small item. 

Someone else was asking about leaving a log to mill later. This was left off ground about 3 ft on stacked pallets for a year and 1/2. Ends were anchor sealed. I'd rather not leave it unmilled. Bark was removed months prior to milling. 

Again, camera focus is in need of somethin.


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## dustytools (Nov 19, 2006)

Nice pics. I see several people in here using the aluminum ladders for the first cut. How do you secure it to the log?


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## gumneck (Nov 19, 2006)

dustytools said:


> Nice pics. I see several people in here using the aluminum ladders for the first cut. How do you secure it to the log?



I just put a couple of 16 Penny nails in front of a rung to keep from sliding the ladder around. Sometimes I'll nail a small piece of 2X4 under a rung to prop up a side to make a cut square to the first cut. I also have small wooden wedges I use to nail under rungs. It can be any combination depending on what the log throws at me. There's probably a better way.

I may cut a piece of angle to bolt to the bottom of the ladder to butt up against the log end.


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## highsiera (Nov 19, 2006)

Not to beat a dead horse here, but we have a few of those at our cottage on the Potomac. Ugly weed trees that grow up with the locusts and take a beating from the storms that come in off the river. I remember them being pretty prevalent in Ct. when I was growing up. I always thought of them as "recalimers", like cedars. One of the first trees to spring up when a field starts to revert back to wood. Had a lot of them in our hedge rows. Smell awful when you cut them. The birds plant them here at our house in town, I moved a couple along my neighbor's fence since she's always looking over it. I always chuckle a little bit when the berries are out and birds "repaint" her car...cause nature can be a mother....


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## scottr (Nov 19, 2006)

*Reclaimers*



highsiera said:


> Not to beat a dead horse here, but we have a few of those at our cottage on the Potomac. Ugly weed trees that grow up with the locusts and take a beating from the storms that come in off the river. I remember them being pretty prevalent in Ct. when I was growing up. I always thought of them as "recalimers", like cedars. One of the first trees to spring up when a field starts to revert back to wood. Had a lot of them in our hedge rows. Smell awful when you cut them. The birds plant them here at our house in town, I moved a couple along my neighbor's fence since she's always looking over it. I always chuckle a little bit when the berries are out and birds "repaint" her car...cause nature can be a mother....


 Highsiera , does the smell remind you of almonds ?


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## woodshop (Nov 19, 2006)

highsiera said:


> ... I remember them being pretty prevalent in Ct. when I was growing up. I always thought of them as "recalimers", like cedars. One of the first trees to spring up when a field starts to revert back to wood. Had a lot of them in our hedge rows. Smell awful when you cut them.


That doesn't sound like black cherry, that sounds a lot like choke cherry and fire cherry, which are as you say, pioneer species that take over abandon fields along with sumac and other pioneer type trees here in PA. Most cherry wood, twigs and bark does have that bitter almond smell and taste. Cutting cherry heartwood in the shop though gives off a sweet pleasant cherry smell.


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## highsiera (Nov 20, 2006)

honestly, it's smells like rancid fruit. the "cherries" are small, the size of a holly berry, black on the outside, purple inside (and on your car). The leaves and bark match the pics. It hardly has the aroma of fine cherry I've worked with in the shop. Blooms white flowers in the spring and the bagworms love it. Smells sour when you burn it. we called it wild black cherry growing up, I've always thought of it as a trash tree, a weed.
I always thought fire cherry and choke cherry were more apt grow like a bush or a mound. These usually have multiple trunks each split to 2 maybe three main leaders about halfway up the trunk. They seem to grow any where, from the clay concrete here at home to the sandy loam at the river. There are even a couple of 20 inchers firmly routed in the brackish tidal mud up there. Very resilent grower this tree.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 20, 2006)

sounds like a bitter or sour cherry. I know there are somewhere around 10 Prunus species, including peaches and plums, as well as fruiting cherry trees.


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## highsiera (Nov 20, 2006)

May well be, after three or four hours cutting them up and stinking chips all in everything makes for one bitter sawyer.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 20, 2006)

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

That's how I feel when I mill walnut with short sleeves. I didn't know the toxicity of walnut sawdust before getting a rash over pretty much my entire exposed area and having to go on steroids to get rid of it. Kinda like bad poison ivy but less watery blisters.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 20, 2006)

*Stickering question*

Hi everyone -

Got the logs milled last week that were the whole start of this thread. I have a ton of it now and need to post my pics of the stacks. I have some real nice 6/4 at 7.5' and then a bunch of 1.25" and 1" at about that same length.

Question:
I was not nearly preparred with enough stickers and have only stickered about 40-50% so far. I have done the 1" and 1.25" stuff first as I assume that is at most risk of twisting, etc if not stickered and weighted first. It is all in my garage right now. The remaining 1.25 and 6/4 is still unstickered. I have it all stacked on top of itself in a few stacks and weighted. Am I at risk if this stuff is not stickered right away? I'll get some pics as soon as I can. Thoughts, suggestions?


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## oldsaw (Nov 20, 2006)

It will mold pretty quick, actually black mildew spots if you don't get it stickered pretty fast. 

Worst case scenario, go down the nearest lumberyard and buy some 1x6 or 8 and rip them 3/4 square. Good stickers fast for not a whole lot of work or money.

Mark


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## woodshop (Nov 20, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Hi everyone -
> 
> Got the logs milled last week that were the whole start of this thread. I have a ton of it now and need to post my pics of the stacks. I have some real nice 6/4 at 7.5' and then a bunch of 1.25" and 1" at about that same length.
> 
> ...


...well... depending on how cold it is where you are, you might be ok for a little while. I've had some cherry I milled a week ago, still sitting in a stack in driveway, looked at it the other day, no problems. It's too cold to mold and mildew here in PA, I suspect down in VA, same thing. But don't know. Oldsaw is right though in the summer heat that stuff will start to mold and mildew pronto, like the next day if not sooner depending on how humid it is.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 20, 2006)

Guys, thanks. It has been highs only in the 50s since it was cut and stacked and will continue to be highs only in the high fourtys-low fiftys for the next several days where I live. You think I am ok?? 

Old Saw, thanks for the advice on the sticker material. I have actually been ripping a bunch of Bruce wood flooring that I grabbed out of the dumpster from one of the houses being built. Seems to work well. Not sure if the finished side of the flooring is an issue for the wood. 

I'm gonna assume that I am ok with most any material I sticker with as long as i get the boards stickered soon (day after Thanksgiving most likely.) I stacked them because i was more concerned about cupping, bowing, etc. If I am better off keeping them separated, because of the mold issue, as opposed to having them weighted please me know your thoughts.

What do i do if I do start getting the black mold/mildew spots?


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## woodshop (Nov 20, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> I'm gonna assume that I am ok with most any material I sticker with as long as i get the boards stickered soon (day after Thanksgiving most likely.) I stacked them because i was more concerned about cupping, bowing, etc. If I am better off keeping them separated, because of the mold issue, as opposed to having them weighted please me know your thoughts.
> 
> What do i do if I do start getting the black mold/mildew spots?


Again, this time of year, I think you are fine with a pile of wet lumber sitting for few days, even till Friday as you say. I hate to admit this, but in cold weather, I have left piles of wet milled lumber sit for several WEEKS before stickering, and as long as it's all in a pile with nothing sticking out to dry fast, no ill effects. 

I often get those black spots on my lumber when milling, they seem to appear almost instantly after I take the board off the cant (I'm talking only minutes). They are not mold or mildew, but I think just little bits of metal from the saw/blades etc oxidizing and turning black from the chemicals in the wood. Reason I think that is that I have gotten a black stain in the shape of the metal tool I left on a just milled oak board. I once left a wire brush laying on a cant, and came back next day that whole area under the brush had that same black stain. It doesn't go deep into the wood though, and one pass through the planer and it's gone. No big deal.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 20, 2006)

woodshop said:


> Again, this time of year, I think you are fine with a pile of wet lumber sitting for few days, even till Friday as you say. I hate to admit this, but in cold weather, I have left piles of wet milled lumber sit for several WEEKS before stickering, and as long as it's all in a pile with nothing sticking out to dry fast



Thanks woodshop. Makes me feel a lot better. I put a significant amount of sweat equity in so far and don't want to goof anything up (at least not what i can control).

Also, thanks for the comment about not too much sticking out on the end of the stacked boards. It is pretty easy for me to restack, at least, I'll check that out for making sure the stacks are as uniform as possible.

Ironically, I am using some of the smaller logs that were not worth milling as weight on these tall narrow stacks. Seemed like a good idea since they are long, uniform (basically) and heavy. Cherry weighting down the cherry, thought you'd appreciate the irony.

Garage has that strong smell of wet cherry wood, big time.

Cheers


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## woodshop (Nov 20, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Cherry weighting down the cherry, thought you'd appreciate the irony.
> Garage has that strong smell of wet cherry wood, big time.


Weighing down wood with wood... more times than not lately, I've been using the larger planks, like the 12 inch wide 12/4's (120 lbs per 8 footer) on the top of the stack as the ONLY weight, forgoing my concrete slugs. So far, with the white oak I recently milled, no problems doing that. Keeping a eye on it to see though. As for your sweet cherry smell, when the wind is blowing right, I can't go out in my back yard without getting a whiff of the somewhat acidic smell of all that fresh white oak drying back there. That will last a few months. Trade ya?


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## oldsaw (Nov 20, 2006)

I keep my wood in the garage since I tend to do only small batches. House keeps it pretty warm, so I need to think about mold/mildew year round. 

The last batch of black spots I got were definitely mold/mildew. Left them together around room temperature for a week or two before I got them stickered. Had to leave town, other family "tragedies" kept me away.

Outside, wouldn't worry too much this time of year, even in VA.

Mark


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 21, 2006)

woodshop said:


> As for your sweet cherry smell, when the wind is blowing right, I can't go out in my back yard without getting a whiff of the somewhat acidic smell of all that fresh white oak drying back there. That will last a few months. Trade ya?



Yes, acidic is actually a really good way to describe it. I'm sure when it drys more that smell mellows and more wood comes though.

No dice on the trade, I am way too much of a newbie to have designs on what I would do with it. I'll say this though...you've been a ton of help on this process so far so if you are interested in some rough cut I would make you a good deal. As I've said, profit was not my motive in this project but I have put a lot of work and some money (milling was $350 alone) into all this.

Btw, meant to say good job on 1,000+ posts.


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 21, 2006)

oldsaw said:


> Left them together around room temperature for a week or two before I got them stickered. Had to leave town, other family "tragedies" kept me away.
> 
> Outside, wouldn't worry too much this time of year, even in VA.



oldsaw, thanks for the follow up, i'll let you all know if i get any dark coloring in any way.

Speaking of family, with everyone coming over for turkey day i expect to get some of my investment in food back by taking it out in help with stickering the cherry and splittng a bunch of wood at the house!


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## woodshop (Nov 21, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> No dice on the trade, I am way too much of a newbie to have designs on what I would do with it. I'll say this though...you've been a ton of help on this process so far so if you are interested in some rough cut I would make you a good deal.


Nahh...you've got too much blood sweat and tears invested in that cherry to wanna sell it to anybody. I feel the same with most of the wood I mill. Got oak up to my ears, and as much as I like cherry and won't pass up one to mill, got lots of that now too. Trees on the top of my wanna mill list are black walnut, rock maple and redcedar. AS member near me just offered a 24 in walnut in trade for some other milling. After my craft shows next two weekends, gonna try and take him up on that. Thanks for the offer though.

Like most of us here I suspect... I NEED MORE WEEKENDS!!! Don't ya hate it when your job and family obligations get in the way of more important things in life like chainsaws, bar oil and milling wood????


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## MikeInParadise (Nov 21, 2006)

dustytools said:


> Nice pics. I see several people in here using the aluminum ladders for the first cut. How do you secure it to the log?



I use some fender washers to attach a board to the bottom of the ladder. This allows the board to slide up and down. I then screw this into the log. Works for me!


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 21, 2006)

woodshop said:


> Like most of us here I suspect... I NEED MORE WEEKENDS!!! Don't ya hate it when your job and family obligations get in the way of more important things in life like chainsaws, bar oil and milling wood????



You said it. I may just be a newbie but I am getting bitten. I not only have a grage full of cherry (~400 bd ft rough cut) but I have fire woods logs from the forest in the drive way to saw and split. I find all this much more interesting work on the weekends then cleaning house or home decorating (we just moved). Heck, just this morning the Stihl catalog came in and I was telling my wife I needed a bigger saw. Don't "really" need a new one but I told her "All the guys on AS all have multiple saws in their signatures". Guess I'll just have to build up my collection starting with my humble MS 210.


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## woodshop (Nov 21, 2006)

MikeInParadise said:


> I use some fender washers to attach a board to the bottom of the ladder. This allows the board to slide up and down. I then screw this into the log. Works for me!


Good idea, I like simple solutions for things like that, but that also work well. Knowing me, I would have taken a more complicated approach, maybe a toggle clamp that tightens the ladder to the lumber crosspiece with a bolt that screws into a threaded insert in the lumber. But your solution takes 2 minutes. Good job.


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## trax (Nov 21, 2006)

We need some pic's of the pile of boards


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## woodshop (Nov 21, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> I told her "All the guys on AS all have multiple saws in their signatures". Guess I'll just have to build up my collection starting with my humble MS 210.


I suspect that most of us started with ONE saw, probably a used one, probably NOT a 395XP or MS660 sized saw either. If you're not going to be milling lumber or cutting down 36 inch trees, in my opinion you only really NEED two saws, a small one and a medium sized firewood saw in the 60cc range like the MS361 or Husky 365. Now if you want to slice logs into lumber or be able to cut up huge trees... or if like lots of us you just like chainsaws and HAVE to have lots of them...different story. Get out your wallet. Oh yeah, don't forget to tell your kids that they won't be going to college.


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## dustytools (Nov 21, 2006)

woodshop said:


> Good idea, I like simple solutions for things like that, but that also work well. Knowing me, I would have taken a more complicated approach, maybe a toggle clamp that tightens the ladder to the lumber crosspiece with a bolt that screws into a threaded insert in the lumber. But your solution takes 2 minutes. Good job.


I agree with Woodshop, nice ,simple approach. Now I gotta find me an aluminum ladder somewhere.


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## oldsaw (Nov 21, 2006)

woodshop said:


> I suspect that most of us started with ONE saw, probably a used one, probably NOT a 395XP or MS660 sized saw either. If you're not going to be milling lumber or cutting down 36 inch trees, in my opinion you only really NEED two saws, a small one and a medium sized firewood saw in the 60cc range like the MS361 or Husky 365. Now if you want to slice logs into lumber or be able to cut up huge trees... or if like lots of us you just like chainsaws and HAVE to have lots of them...different story. Get out your wallet. Oh yeah, don't forget to tell your kids that they won't be going to college.



Absolutely spot on advice. I started out with a 60cc class saw, and then got a smaller one, 45cc class (Homie 150) from Dad for free...just needed work. If I didn't mill, I wouldn't have the 066 or the 3120...no real point to it.

Mark


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## LostInTheWoods (Nov 27, 2006)

*Here are the board pics!*

Hey everyone, here are some pics of the milled stuff.


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## oldsaw (Nov 27, 2006)

That's a nice stack of cherry. Nice work.

Mark


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## woodshop (Nov 27, 2006)

Very nice lostinthewoods. Nothing like a pile of fresh bandsawn cherry wood all trimmed up and edged ready to sticker. That nice light pink will turn darker as it dries and eventually will be an almost maroon color on the outside of those boards. Did you ever figure out exactly how many board foot of lumber it came to?


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 28, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Hey everyone, here are some pics of the milled stuff.



IMNVS!:jawdrop:


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## LostInTheWoods (Dec 5, 2006)

*few more pics of the stuff and mildew*

Here are some more pics of the haul stickered in my garage (VW in there for oldsaw). Appreciate any comments on my newbie stickering technique that are possible. Basically the stickers are cut out of Bruce wood flooring that I salvaged out of the dumpster from some of the recent construction in the neighborhood. Most are 5"-6" long and all are like 3/4" thick, 3/4"-1" wide. 

Also, please take a look at some of the mold/mildew pics. These were on the one board that was laying directly on the garage concrete floor before I had gotton to stickering. Was laying there about three weeks. Thoughts? Will this stuff just be planed off?


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## Sprig (Dec 5, 2006)

Very nice hunks of tree flesh  Yes the mold/mildew should plane off I can't see it staining too deeply if only there a short time as cherry fairly dense stuff imo, have fun with that fine lumber ya did great!


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## aquan8tor (Dec 5, 2006)

LostInTheWoods said:


> Here are some more pics of the haul stickered in my garage (VW in there for oldsaw). Appreciate any comments on my newbie stickering technique that are possible. Basically the stickers are cut out of Bruce wood flooring that I salvaged out of the dumpster from some of the recent construction in the neighborhood. Most are 5"-6" long and all are like 3/4" thick, 3/4"-1" wide.
> 
> Also, please take a look at some of the mold/mildew pics. These were on the one board that was laying directly on the garage concrete floor before I had gotton to stickering. Was laying there about three weeks. Thoughts? Will this stuff just be planed off?




I was thinking that the mold/mildew might have jumped ship from the moist concrete onto a moist, nutrient rich source like the wood. I suspect you'll get a fair bit of stain where those concrete edging blocks are positioned directly on your wood. Just my .02. I'm really a little jealous. I still haven't gotten my cherry logs out of the woods yet. Felled a 24 incher the day before thanksgiving; I'm planning on pulling them out next weekend sometime. Here's a pic of the tree before felling, and of the cut logssorry for the pic size---I don't have time to downsize right now)

I also included a pic showing where someone cut down & helped themselves to the other fork of the tree: there's a big missing section from the tree, which would've been the only straight section in the tree.     :greenchainsaw: 

Looks like you've got some nice connections going!!!! Hook me up if there are any my way, will 'ya?


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## gumneck (Dec 6, 2006)

I've used a 10% bleach to water solution in a spray bottle to remove the mold from the top. You might try something like that or even using a rag with the solution. I did it on yellow pine with good results. I soaked it but you may try a small area in case wood type makes a difference in effectiveness.

Tom


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