# Differences between 028 and 028 Super?



## machinisttx (Dec 13, 2013)

I know the Super has more displacement, any other major parts differences?


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## windthrown (Dec 14, 2013)

There are 3 flavors of the 028 (they are all listed at 14.3 lb. w/B&C, and 12.6 lb. w/o)

Stihl 028 WB 3.2 HP
Stihl 028 AV/AVQ 3.5 HP
Stihl 028 Super 3.8 HP

Other than the P&C, they are similar, except the AVQ is a different in terms of the oiler and brakes. The early 028s also had points in the ignition.


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## moody (Dec 14, 2013)

Does someone have the bore sizes of the 028 laying around?


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## SEAM (Dec 14, 2013)

There were two Super displacements: 48 and 52 cc. And it seems like there was a third, 61.5 cc:




...possibly only sold over here to finish up stocked parts?


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Dec 14, 2013)

Link
http://www.getsaws.com/S_specs.html


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## MnSam (Dec 14, 2013)

moody said:


> Does someone have the bore sizes of the 028 laying around?



42, 44, 46mm

The 42 and 44 varieties were the non-supers, 46 being the super p/c.
The 46 p/c is a direct bolt on replacement for the 44. Not so the case if you have a 42 p/c, some on here have done it but it takes a lot of work IRC.


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## MnSam (Dec 14, 2013)

VINIFIREWOOD said:


> Link
> http://www.getsaws.com/S_specs.html



Beat me to it. Great link too.


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## SawTroll (Dec 14, 2013)

windthrown said:


> There are 3 flavors of the 028 (they are all listed at 14.3 lb., which is kind'a heavy)
> 
> Stihl 028 WB 3.2 HP
> Stihl 028 AV/AVQ 3.5 HP
> ...



I wonder where you have those fantacy numbers from?

My trusty ol' Stihl info tells me;

43cc (original 1977 version) - 2.8 hp
All 47.1cc versions - 3.0 hp
All Super versions (51.4cc) - 3.4 hp.


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## SawTroll (Dec 14, 2013)

SEAM said:


> There were two Super displacements: 48 and 52 cc. And it seems like there was a third, 61.5 cc:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That has to be a misprint for 51.5.....


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## kyle.kipple (Dec 14, 2013)

i WISH my super was 61.5 love that slow heavy turd!! nice misprint.


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## PA Dan (Dec 14, 2013)

kyle.kipple said:


> i WISH my super was 61.5 love that slow heavy turd!! nice misprint.


Wouldn't that be nice!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## machinisttx (Dec 14, 2013)

windthrown said:


> There are 3 flavors of the 028 (they are all listed at 14.3 lb., which is kind'a heavy)
> 
> Stihl 028 WB 3.2 HP
> Stihl 028 AV/AVQ 3.5 HP
> ...



I have one of the early all mag 028WB's that needs a rebuild. Points ignition. I'm assuming it's the smaller 42mm bore. I also picked up a later model 028AV with quickstop(not sure of the difference between AV and AVQ?). Electronic ignition and quickstop? This one should be 44mm bore, correct?


MnSam said:


> 42, 44, 46mm
> 
> The 42 and 44 varieties were the non-supers, 46 being the super p/c.
> The 46 p/c is a direct bolt on replacement for the 44. Not so the case if you have a 42 p/c, some on here have done it but it takes a lot of work IRC.



Do you have any more info on the conversion? I've seen tons of replacement 44mm P/C's and none that I can recall for the 42. I could probably get by with a set of rings, but I don't recall having seen those either. I'm pretty sure the jug on my parts saw is 44mm and if it cleans up(scored piston), I could just buy a P/R set and use that on the older saw.


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## MnSam (Dec 14, 2013)

I believe it required a little case clearancing and slotting the cylinder holes. I'm not sure if this is always required, as I remember reading that some members here claimed they swapped a 46 p/c directly onto a 42 saw without having to modify. 

Also, the mufflers for the supers and non-supers mount up a bit differently. I don't think the mufflers swap.

One can still purchase Tecomec 46mm p/c's for under $120.


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## windthrown (Dec 14, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I wonder where you have those fantacy numbers from?
> 
> My trusty ol' Stihl info tells me;
> 
> ...


 
I got those from a specs sheet. My WS manual does not have the HP numbers, but I will dig up the source. Several misprints out there on the web about the 028 that I have found as to size, RPM, etc. Here are the other specs from the horse's mouth regarding the 44mm/47cc/AV and 46mm/51cc/Super versions of the 028:

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/instructionmanuals/STIHL028_with_safety_manual.pdf 

The specs are on page 46.


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## windthrown (Dec 14, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> I have one of the early all mag 028WB's that needs a rebuild. Points ignition. I'm assuming it's the smaller 42mm bore. I also picked up a later model 028AV with quickstop(not sure of the difference between AV and AVQ?). Electronic ignition and quickstop? This one should be 44mm bore, correct?


 
My 028/038 manual has the differences between the AV and AVQ, as well as the AVE and AVEQ. The oil pump, clutch and braking system are different on the Q models. The AV models were all 44mm though. There were points and electronic ignition models for both AV and AVQ models. There is inconsistency between the specs in this WS manual and the ones online at Stihl, particularly the max RPM is listed as 12k, whereas online in the user guide its 12.5k. Also the Super is listed as 12.5k some places, and 13k in others. Both are Stihl published references (just so that the Troll does not get all excited )


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## machinisttx (Dec 14, 2013)

MnSam said:


> I believe it required a little case clearancing and slotting the cylinder holes. I'm not sure if this is always required, as I remember reading that some members here claimed they swapped a 46 p/c directly onto a 42 saw without having to modify.
> 
> Also, the mufflers for the supers and non-supers mount up a bit differently. I don't think the mufflers swap.
> 
> One can still purchase Tecomec 46mm p/c's for under $120.



If that's all there is to it, then that's not much work at all.


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## SawTroll (Dec 15, 2013)

windthrown said:


> My 028/038 manual has the differences between the AV and AVQ, as well as the AVE and AVEQ. The oil pump, clutch and braking system are different on the Q models. The AV models were all 44mm though. There were points and electronic ignition models for both AV and AVQ models. There is inconsistency between the specs in this WS manual and the ones online at Stihl, particularly the max RPM is listed as 12k, whereas online in the user guide its 12.5k. Also the Super is listed as 12.5k some places, and 13k in others. Both are Stihl published references (just so that the Troll does not get all excited )



LOL - it happens quite often that Stihl doesn't agree with themselves, between different documents....

However, the numbers I posted weren't based on just one document, so I tend to trust them.


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## MnSam (Dec 15, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> If that's all there is to it, then that's not much work at all.



True for some, untrue for others. I shouldn't have said "a lot" of work, more like "some". Having the proper tools and the ability to use them goes a long way. Quite the diverse group here on AS!

I'm sure some members have more input on the 028 intricacies and hope they post. I'm sure this discussion has been had before, but finding said discussions is difficult, especially after the last reboot. It would be nice to bring some of this archived knowledge forward and current.


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## windthrown (Dec 15, 2013)

Doing searches on Google is impossible for this site. Doing searches using this site are also not always fruitful, even when you know that you posted the stuff.


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## machinisttx (Dec 15, 2013)

I realize that there are different styles and at least two different styles of case mount for the 28 mufflers. Is the cylinder mounting of the muffler the same bolt pattern? I know it is between the 42mm and 44mm, so I figure it's the same for the 46. I don't want to assume though.


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## MnSam (Dec 15, 2013)

A brief search yielded a couple results:
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...tronic-quickstop-muffler.218329/#post-4042163
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/my-stihl-028av-wood-boss-rebuild.199022/#post-3762735
I'm sure there is more info somewhere.


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## dom1971 (Jul 13, 2018)

MnSam said:


> 42, 44, 46mm
> 
> The 42 and 44 varieties were the non-supers, 46 being the super p/c.
> The 46 p/c is a direct bolt on replacement for the 44. Not so the case if you have a 42 p/c, some on here have done it but it takes a lot of work IRC.


can the 46mm piston and rings from a 028 Super be used for an 029-291 since they use a 46mm piston and cylinder ?


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## grön ek (Oct 28, 2020)

moody said:


> Does someone have the bore sizes of the 028 laying around?


The very first years had a 42mm bore, they upgraded to a 44 mm bore, and the super had a 46mm bore. I must say from experience the 42mm bore has a very smooth engine, and as the bore size increased, they became more finicky and rougher. This might have to do with increased production (quality might have been slipping), or the bore:stroke ratio, or other (everything I own is used).


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## vtfireman85 (Oct 28, 2020)

What separates the WB from the rest. Guy was trying to sell me a pair of 028wb for 200 one hd a new carb, both ran. Hes the local Husqvarna dealer, so i trust his appraisal of condition.


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## Wood Doctor (Oct 28, 2020)

vtfireman85 said:


> What separates the WB from the rest. Guy was trying to sell me a pair of 028wb for 200 one hd a new carb, both ran. Hes the local Husqvarna dealer, so i trust his appraisal of condition.


I assume you mean $200 apiece. I sold one last year for $220. The new owner loves it. I saved one Super for myself and it operates flawlessly. The only reason I usually reach for my Husky 353 as my goto is because it is a tad lighter. The Stihl is actually easier to start after it sits awhile. No decomp required. I've always been surprised that they discontinued it and threw all their support at the MS261.


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## vtfireman85 (Oct 28, 2020)

Wood Doctor said:


> I assume you mean $200 apiece. I sold one last year for $220. The new owner loves it. I saved one Super for myself and it operates flawlessly. The only reason I usually reach for my Husky 353 as my goto is because it is a tad lighter. The Stihl is actually easier to start after it sits awhile. No decomp required. I've always been surprised that they discontinued it and threw all their support at the MS261.


No, the pair, I really don’t need or want them, I only need one small saw, and i have a 562, i think he has a whole mess of used saws there and wants to clear the floor, probably a trade in or who knows what. Been sitting there a while.


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## LoveStihlQuality (Nov 2, 2020)

Vermont Fire? I'm retired FF. Some early 028 WB had metal tank. The brake springs are different too. 028 WB brake spring one circle whereas Supers spring longer so it overlaps.

I've noticed that recoil covers on WB are 3 screw whereas all Supers I've worked on have 4 screw covers.

Mufflers on most WB are 3 piece and a couple versions, 1 is shown. Another has a top cover shroud. The 028 salvaged from a fire has this. (will try to get front pic. BTW it runs strong)
The Supers have 2 piece with multi hole cover. The case screw holes are different.
There may be exceptions, these are my observations on my experiences with 028's.
I looked a saw adverstide on CL as a Super but muffler and recoil weren't like a Super, just had a Super cylinder cover.





















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## Mad Professor (Nov 2, 2020)

vtfireman85 said:


> What separates the WB from the rest. Guy was trying to sell me a pair of 028wb for 200 one hd a new carb, both ran. Hes the local Husqvarna dealer, so i trust his appraisal of condition.


where are you?

I'm in pownal I'd buy them. Billy Bratcher is best saw man in s Vt. bennington


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## Mad Professor (Nov 2, 2020)

Difference is 2mm of bore, 44 and 46 mm


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## Maintenance supervisor (Nov 2, 2020)

vtfireman85 said:


> What separates the WB from the rest. Guy was trying to sell me a pair of 028wb for 200 one hd a new carb, both ran. Hes the local Husqvarna dealer, so i trust his appraisal of condition.


For saws you don't want 100.00 seems like a lot, if they're not Supers thats a little high in my opinion, but they must have made a ton of them and I've had them given to me for free with bad AVs , I paid 25.00 For my super WB.


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## vtfireman85 (Nov 2, 2020)

Mad Professor said:


> where are you?
> 
> I'm in pownal I'd buy them. Billy Bratcher is best saw man in s Vt. bennington


Im in Mount tabor, Charlie white is the dealer i was talking to


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## Mad Professor (Nov 2, 2020)

vtfireman85 said:


> Im in Mount tabor, Charlie you the is the dealer i was talking to


I've followed the stream up Mt Tabor to the source , looking for wild trout, head water of Otter Creek, a few ponds up there. Know the area well. Hunting too.

Billy Bratcher in Bennington is getting older but the best man I know to work on saws. He is on Gage St. A wonderful human being too.

PM me a connection for the saws, 028/038 is about the best stihl built


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## christylleam (Nov 2, 2020)

super is bigger?


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## r black (Nov 2, 2020)

christylleam said:


> super is bigger?


it is yes


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## Maintenance supervisor (Nov 2, 2020)

christylleam said:


> super is bigger?


Not physically of course but cc, they also have a factory pop up piston.


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