# Dual headed Chainsaw Mill



## PhilB (Jul 16, 2012)

This is a video of my homebuilt dual headed chainsaw mill

[video=youtube;jhHPQAgm6j4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHPQAgm6j4&feature=plcp[/video]

The power heads are Makita 6401's with 84 cc Big bore kits and opened up mufflers. This is the first time I have used a chainsaw mill and all went better than expected. My friend Jeremy is at the controls and I'm the helper.

Features of the Mill are: guide shoes that ride on the ladder rails, dual remote throttles with a magnetic latch in the full on position, and a winch with an adjustable elevation.

I'll be posting pictures of the details as time permits (probably next weekend).

Phil


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## sachsmo (Jul 16, 2012)

Nice set-up,

ripping is *not* an easy thing to put a (two) saws through.

You need to post some pics of the cut.


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## hamish (Jul 16, 2012)

Thats pretty neat looking. Any troubles syncronizing the powerheads or do the clutches just sort it all out?


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## PhilB (Jul 16, 2012)

Hamish,

Once the saws come up to speed, the clutches are locked and both power heads run at the same speed. I experienced no problems running two power heads. With one clutch slipping I would expect to hear a beat note (one power head running at a different speed than the other).

Phil


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## jnl502 (Jul 16, 2012)

Sweet setup. I like all the thought you put into the stuff most don't. I think that's why CSM's have such a bad rep. Your throttle and winch system is nice. Keep the wideo comming!


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## hamish (Jul 16, 2012)

Phil,

Have you tached both saws in the cut? Thank god for clutches! Just got to pondering wear items with two powerheads used in line. Something new for me to figure out and maybe try one day.

What chain set up are you running?


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## BobL (Jul 16, 2012)

Nice job!

At about the 4 minute mark of the vid I see the power heads jumping around a little. What does this do to the cut finish?

One to remove/reduce the bounce might be to the mounting the mill to the power head via the bar bolts rather than the bar itself.

Anyway, looking forward to some closeups of the mill.


Cheers


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## PhilB (Jul 16, 2012)

hamish said:


> Phil,
> 
> Have you tached both saws in the cut?
> 
> What chain set up are you running?



I haven't tached the saws.
I'm using WoodlandPro 33RP ripping chain 3/8" .063 guage.


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## PhilB (Jul 16, 2012)

BobL said:


> Nice job!
> 
> At about the 4 minute mark of the vid I see the power heads jumping around a little. What does this do to the cut finish?
> 
> ...



The jumping didn't effect the finish. The finish is very smooth with no ripples or any other marks.
I'm considering modifying the power head connection as you suggested. I should be able to do this with very little modification.

I've been reading your post's and others trying to design an efficient CSM. I've got a lot of pro's and con's from those posts.


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## PhilB (Jul 16, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> You need to post some pics of the cut.



full size image







closeup image


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## leeha (Jul 16, 2012)

That was awsome.
Thanks for posting. What wood is it.
I'm no wood expert.





Lee


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## PhilB (Jul 16, 2012)

leeha said:


> What wood is it.
> I'm no wood expert.
> 
> Lee



I was told it was red oak.

Phil


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## BobL (Jul 16, 2012)

PhilB said:


> The jumping didn't effect the finish. The finish is very smooth with no ripples or any other marks.


Good to hear. Now that I see your cut I wonder if it was just cutting through one of those knots at that point it was jumping?



> I'm considering modifying the power head connection as you suggested. I should be able to do this with very little modification.


Keeping the mill and saw rigid helps reduce wear and tear over the long haul so I reckon it's worth it.



> I've been reading your post's and others trying to design an efficient CSM. I've got a lot of pro's and con's from those posts.


Yep there sure is a heap of useful info in this forum.

With two power heads and a total of 172 cc you should experiment with dropping the rakers. I'd try an raker-cutter-wood angle of about 7º and go up from there.

Cheers


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## sachsmo (Jul 17, 2012)

PhilB said:


> full size image
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow,

great looking finish, like Bob I saw the saws "flapping" it sure didn't hurt the finish at all.


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## PhilB (Jul 18, 2012)

Picture of Mill


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## PhilB (Jul 18, 2012)

Another picture of the Mill


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## john taliaferro (Jul 19, 2012)

I like the mill , that's some nice work . slabs look real heavy for this weather , i am sweating just looking . :msp_biggrin:


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## PhilB (Jul 19, 2012)

john taliaferro said:


> slabs look real heavy for this weather , i am sweating just looking . :msp_biggrin:



Ya, it was hot and humid (96 deg). We had some help with the lifting.


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## PhilB (Jul 19, 2012)

Another picture


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## Cliffhanger9 (Jul 20, 2012)

Really nice looking rig, mate! Well done


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## PhilB (Jul 21, 2012)

*Chainsaw Mill Winch*

Details of Winch

















Full height


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## PhilB (Jul 21, 2012)

*Remote Throttle*


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## PhilB (Jul 21, 2012)

*Guide Shoes, Misc.*


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## BobL (Jul 21, 2012)

Some nice fab work there - did you do it all yourself?

One thing I'm a bit worried about in the long term is the way the mill is locked to the ladder. This means the sideways forces of the chain on the log and the reaction force of the mill on the ladder are not coplanar which will result in a very slight racking of the mill frame continually pushing the bar and chain upwards into the kerf. The reaction to this force will push the chain down against the bottom bar rail. Unless the mill itself is really rigid to prevent this from happening, this may eventually wear the chain and bar unevenly. While your mill does look very rigid the occasional shakes of the mill in the vid suggest that it is still not stiff enough. The situation is magnified because of using a ladder which is quite thick which makes the distance between the bar and the bottom of the mill greater than would be the case if narrower log rails were used. The other factor is is that two power heads means that the forces involved are much greater than for one so the mill frame needs to be even stiffer than usual.

One other thing locking the mill to the ladder does is require the ladder to always be very firmly fixed to the log. This is less of a problem once the first cut has been made but can be a problem on the first cut on some logs especially if one wished to split a log in half on the first cut.

The ideal orientation for the counteracting forces of the chain on the log is for the saw to push back on the log as near as possible to the line of the kerf. This is why people experiment with wheels and sliders etc. I have tried both methods and prefer the ability to move the mill around on the log rails. It enables me to do things like start and finish cuts slowly on an angle. Some of this is because I prefer to work alone - something that is unlikely to be possible with a double header


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## PhilB (Jul 21, 2012)

Bob,

Thanks, Yes I fabbed the Mill myself.

I've already started redoing the mounts for the powerheads, similar to aggiewoodbutchr's method. This should reduce the shake.

For the first cut I screw wood stops to the cant for sideways movement and shims to support the middle of the ladder. There may be a problem with deep cuts, but the mill is very stiff. The uprights are 1/4" wall thickness. The frame rails are 80/20 1515 extrusions. 
Time will tell.






Thanks for your comments.

Phil


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## glennschumann (Jul 21, 2012)

*Again, nice work!*

Very nice work!!! I'm particularly facinated my what appear to be UHMWPE guides on your rig just below the main rails. I've been vexed by the difficulty of having the mill rub against the log, causing muscle sapping friction. The guide plates on a Granberg Alaskan help, but when you are nearing the bottom of the log, the upright of the mill often contacts the log, as the guide plates are so far below the top of the cant, and the top of the cant sticks out so far. I tried putting wheels from a roller blade on my mill, and this helped a bit, but I think I'm going to steal from you, and add an adjustable wheel or two just below the main rails, designed to roll on the side of my 2x12 guide that I always have on my log. I'll post pictures when I complete this... I'm in the middle of milling a 33' 18" ash for a friend (when it is below 90 degrees) and I think this will help... if not, I"ll know why soon.

Congrats on the work!

Schumann


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## PhilB (Jul 21, 2012)

Schumann,

Thanks. Yes, the guide shoes are UHMWPE as are the bearings for the winch. They work well. I'll be looking forward to seeing your pictures.

Phil


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## PhilB (Jul 21, 2012)

*UHMWPE brass inserts*

This is how I fastened the UHMWPE guide shoes to the aluminum carrier. I use brass inserts which can be found at woodworking supplie houses. They have 1/4" 20tpi threads.


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## BobL (Jul 22, 2012)

glennschumann said:


> I tried putting wheels from a roller blade on my mill, and this helped a bit, but I think I'm going to steal from you, and add an adjustable wheel or two just below the main rails, designed to roll on the side of my 2x12 guide that I always have on my log.



This will almost certainly lead to the problems I described above. Despite it's problems the back pressure needs to be on the log not the rails, or the bar should be free floating like a bandsaw mill. Phil's mill looks much more rigid than a consumer mill.

BTW one way to reduce the shakes is to add a bungee cord like this.




It doesn't eliminate the shakes but it dampens them a bit and stops them building up.


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## glennschumann (Jul 22, 2012)

Thanks for the information on attaching the UHMWPE slides. Clever.

I'll keep my eyes (and arms) out for vibrations as I try my modification. I figure that my approach is going to be easy enough to try, and easy enough to verify as I can implement the experiment from the control condition in about 10 seconds in the middle of a cut. I can also "unimplement" it in the same amount of time.


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## PhilB (Jul 27, 2012)

*Existing power head mount*

I thought I would post pictures of my existing mount before I posted the new improved mount (stronger I hope). The new mount should reduce the shaking as seen in the video. I hope to be done with it tomorrow.


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## BobL (Jul 28, 2012)

Nice fab work!


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## PhilB (Jul 28, 2012)

Bob,

Do you think I should polish the cover?  I should have the mod done in an hour or two. It's looking good.

Phil


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## PhilB (Jul 28, 2012)

*Improved Mount*

Here's the improved mount for the power head. The stiffener and clamp are made of 4140 chrome/moly steel. The stiffener (larger piece) is 1/4" thick. The improved mount is much stiffer.





















Phil


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## BobL (Jul 29, 2012)

Yeah I would definitely polish the cover ! 

How easy is it to adjust the chain tension?


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## PhilB (Jul 29, 2012)

Bob,

Here's my chain adjuster:


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## BobL (Jul 29, 2012)

Now that's what I call a chain adjuster!


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## 820wards (Aug 5, 2012)

PhilB said:


> Picture of Mill



Phil.

Love your design. How long is your bar?

jerry-


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## PhilB (Aug 6, 2012)

Jerry,

Thanks, The bar is a 50" double ended, which with my setup allows for a 35" cut. I do have a 66" double ended bar for a future mill. For now I will use the 50" bar until I get a good handle on any modifications I will need to do. So far it's working out great.

Phil


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## flashhole (May 17, 2013)

Great thread guys, thanks for all the detailed pics and explanation. Nicely done!


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