# SRT Split-tail?



## Garden Of Eden (Nov 17, 2009)

So, I've gotten really comfortable with climbing on the blakes and a VT. I love the split tail idea, however. I'm looking for more versatility, so, what I was thinking was to set up my main line, like an SRT. Then instead of ascenders, using a prussik, and a split tail. Does that make sense? It looked and felt safe up to about 15 feet. I got that high, and thought, "someone else has to be doing this. lol"

I'm wondering if this will actually save my main line, make it last longer, or not? Also, seems like once i tie in to the tree, once aloft, i could redirect my main line somewhere else. Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, reasons I should never do this again? lol 

Thanks everyone

Oh, I was thinking Bee-line, for the split tail, and and 8mm prussik loop as it won't be life-support.

Jeff


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## davej (Nov 18, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> .....unless you are only going down!


 
I thought the main SRT thing to remember was to NOT use them for going down?


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## moss (Nov 18, 2009)

davej said:


> I thought the main SRT thing to remember was to NOT use them for going down?



Smart way to use hitches for SRT instead of mechanical ascenders is to use two, just as you'd use two ascenders, one backs the other. So... bearing that in mind, you could descend on that system by down climbing with the hitches, the same way as you can with a pair of ascenders. A very slow way to go down but it can be done. I think everyone is aware (or should be) that rappelling on a hitch SRT doesn't work very well. 
-moss


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## moss (Nov 18, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> So, I've gotten really comfortable with climbing on the blakes and a VT. I love the split tail idea, however. I'm looking for more versatility, so, what I was thinking was to set up my main line, like an SRT. Then instead of ascenders, using a prussik, and a split tail. Does that make sense? It looked and felt safe up to about 15 feet. I got that high, and thought, "someone else has to be doing this. lol"
> 
> I'm wondering if this will actually save my main line, make it last longer, or not? Also, seems like once i tie in to the tree, once aloft, i could redirect my main line somewhere else. Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, reasons I should never do this again? lol
> 
> ...



It works but is a very slow way to climb SRT. If you have the time, it works. Both of your hitch connections to the rope should be life support rated.
-moss


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 18, 2009)

moss said:


> Smart way to use hitches for SRT instead of mechanical ascenders is to use two, just as you'd use two ascenders, one backs the other. So... bearing that in mind, you could descend on that system by down climbing with the hitches, the same way as you can with a pair of ascenders. A very slow way to go down but it can be done. I think everyone is aware (or should be) that rappelling on a hitch SRT doesn't work very well.
> -moss




I think I get your idea. So, I would need two(2) split-tails. Basically, one on top of the other, right? I don't mean close enough to jam. And yes, rapelling on SRT without a gri-gri- or figure 8 sucks. lol 

I guess the main reason for the question is I'm buying new rope, and am thinking about SRT. I kinda like it's advantages. However, I have arbormaster now, and it's "ok" to work with, I love the way most of the other stuff feels and works. I'm trying not to reduce my arbormaster to "play-rope."

Any preferences on SRT ropes. I have a left and right hand ascender, both petzl, but they're rock type. They look and feel the same, are they? I wasn't aware of a difference.

Thanks everyone

Jeff


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## md_tree_dood (Nov 23, 2009)

Couple things to think about, I'm new to SRT (been at it for a few months). 

I've noticed that my ascenders are destroying my rope. And by destroying, I don't mean in the literal sense but you can definitely tell the difference over the last few months on the "picking" of the outer sheath of my rope since I started using a hand ascender more often.

I purchased a right handled ascender and wish I had gotten a left handled as I'm using a modified rope walker with a foot strap on my left foot, so the crossing is annoying.

You should really go for something less than 1/2 inch if you want to use SRT as your ascenders will work much better the smaller the diameter of line you use. I've used lava and velocity for srt. Velocity worked better but I don't like climbing on it as much as lava so that's what I've used for most ascents.

Practice makes perfect. Without a chest box/croll, its very awkward to get into the system. I've gotten alot better but still think I may have to buy some more stuff (croll, left ascender) before I'd be really happy with my setup. I'm contemplating just buying an ascentree and returning to footlocking.


Good luck


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 23, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> 1/2 inch NE safety blue works fine in my cmi ascenders and Pantin. It is true that small picks do show up on the rope after a lot of use but they don't affect the rope much, IMO.



I'm glad someone brought that up. A rock gym near me allows some guys to use ascenders on certain ropes, and I've noticed the little "picks." I'm trying to avoid that if at all possible, and I was really trying to see a hard advantage to not using the ascenders. I have them, but haven't used 'em enough I'm sure. 
I have a few questions about SRT and would really like to pick someones brain, but also don't want a thread to drag on and on. I've watched some of Moss' youtube vids, that guy is imaginative. I love it. 

Thanks for the help guys.

Jeff


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## moss (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for the comments about my videos. As far as ascenders picking the rope goes, some brands of ascenders have more aggressive teeth than others. The Petzl Ascensions and Croll have long downward facing teeth, the CMI's have much less aggressive teeth. I climb on Petzl ascenders. You have to pay attention to how you take the ascender off the rope, that's where most picking happens, you move the ascender up about an inch as you're opening the cam, no picking will happen. I always climb with a Pantin when I'm climbing DdRT, same thing, make sure the ascender is not loaded when you take it off the rope otherwise it's pickville. Once you figure it out you won't even think about it.

For SRT the super low stretch statics like Sterling HTP and NE Ropes KMIII have exceptionally durable covers, they seem very resistant to picking. The more semi-static arb ropes are softer on the cover and require a little more care when you're taking the ascender off the rope.
-moss


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 24, 2009)

moss said:


> Thanks for the comments about my videos. As far as ascenders picking the rope goes, some brands of ascenders have more aggressive teeth than others. The Petzl Ascensions and Croll have long downward facing teeth, the CMI's have much less aggressive teeth. I climb on Petzl ascenders. You have to pay attention to how you take the ascender off the rope, that's where most picking happens, you move the ascender up about an inch as you're opening the cam, no picking will happen. I always climb with a Pantin when I'm climbing DdRT, same thing, make sure the ascender is not loaded when you take it off the rope otherwise it's pickville. Once you figure it out you won't even think about it.
> 
> For SRT the super low stretch statics like Sterling HTP and NE Ropes KMIII have exceptionally durable covers, they seem very resistant to picking. The more semi-static arb ropes are softer on the cover and require a little more care when you're taking the ascender off the rope.
> -moss



Thanks for doing the pricey research for us! I really appreciate it. I've noticed the same thing about removing the ascenders. I've never climbed with a Pantin, is it really worth it?

I was watching your traverse video with the foot slingshot, (beautiful) and was curious, the bowline on the delta, could you climb like that?


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 24, 2009)

the prussic knot you are using is basically a version of the taut line it is all i have ever used. just make sure you dress it each time before you weight it and ive never had a problem. best part is if you add a micro-pulley you can accend and take the slack out of the rope with one hand..


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 24, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> the prussic knot you are using is basically a version of the taut line it is all i have ever used. just make sure you dress it each time before you weight it and ive never had a problem. best part is if you add a micro-pulley you can accend and take the slack out of the rope with one hand..



Hmmm...not quite sure I follow. Where is the prussik, and pulley?


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

youve go your main climb line, and you use a split tail rope clipped to your saddle/harness. tie your prussic or tautline with the end of your split tail on main line dont forget a safety knot run the main line through the micro pulley which is right under the prussic or split tail. as you climb the tree pull main line up. i guess its kinda hard to explain....


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> youve go your main climb line, and you use a split tail rope clipped to your saddle/harness. tie your prussic or tautline with the end of your split tail on main line dont forget a safety knot run the main line through the micro pulley which is right under the prussic or split tail. as you climb the tree pull main line up. i guess its kinda hard to explain....



Nope...I got it... does it really make that big a difference?


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Nope...I got it... does it really make that big a difference?



what are we talking about the pulley??


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> what are we talking about the pulley??



Haha. Sorry. Yes. The pulley.


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> what are we talking about the pulley??



it all really depends on your style and what you like some people like minimal gear while in the tree, it always nice to have that free hand if you need it i would say spend the 20 bucks try it out and see if you like it, if not youve got i micro pully which you can always use i like to use them on my lanyard to that way i can thighten the up with the prussic one handed


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> what are we talking about the pulley??



i see you live in mi do you work/own a tree service or are you a free lancer???


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> i see you live in mi do you work/own a tree service or are you a free lancer???



Own my own tree service. I'm in Flint area. You?


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

also IMO i prefer new england ropes to samson and some of the others they have a better feel when new, like they are already broken in, I now use new englands tachyon and i love it, the blue streak i have took over a year to really "break in"


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Own my own tree service. I'm in Flint area. You?



im a free lancer i guess i own my own tree service but its alone ive got a group of people who i will hire to work with that are experienced, and i have other big name services who hire me to climb form time to time im in the lansing area, holt to be exact


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> im a free lancer i guess i own my own tree service but its alone ive got a group of people who i will hire to work with that are experienced, and i have other big name services who hire me to climb form time to time im in the lansing area, holt to be exact



Sweet. I hope the big names over there are better than here. They slaughter trees here. There's a spar that's gotta be 15 feet tall, maybe 28-32 inches diameter, cut all the way through, just standing there. Been there for like a month. Big names did it.

I don't try and be the fastest, or cheapest, or biggest, just best honest quality, ya know?


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

yeah around here im pretty much cheaper then anyone else, because i dont really have too many expences, the thing that really drives me nuts is all these firewood guys who think they can cut trees and shoot rediculous lowball bids. i dont know how many times ive bid a job for say $1000.00 and the homeowner says joe blow told me $300.00 it seems like ill drive back by a few weeks later and nothing will be done because the guy realizd he couldnt do the job. now the homeowners got it in his head hes gonna get this tree done for 300 bucks and no one could possibly even do it for that, either that or ill drive back by and see a limb on the house... these people are really makin it hard for the business


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> yeah around here im pretty much cheaper then anyone else, because i dont really have too many expences, the thing that really drives me nuts is all these firewood guys who think they can cut trees and shoot rediculous lowball bids. i dont know how many times ive bid a job for say $1000.00 and the homeowner says joe blow told me $300.00 it seems like ill drive back by a few weeks later and nothing will be done because the guy realizd he couldnt do the job. now the homeowners got it in his head hes gonna get this tree done for 300 bucks and no one could possibly even do it for that, either that or ill drive back by and see a limb on the house... these people are really makin it hard for the business



I bid a job this summer, a choke-cherry, 2 HUGE leaders, drop, limb, and buck to firewood, had the guy locked in at 1200, and was giving him a great deal, cuz I wanted in the neighborhood.

Anyway, guy goes into hospital, and 2 weeks ago wants me to come do it. I get there and the retard tells me he had a guy come that morning and give him a 150 dollar bid. I told him to have that guy do it. Lol. The under-bidder, I know. He's a hack cowboy, who's been kicking my ass all summer. He told me once that he only needs to make $7/hr to keep working. No harness, ppe or anything...he's a joke, who keeps killing my big stuff for the last reason you mentioned


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

about a year ago i had a foreign guy try to renig on the deal after the job was done. he gave me a down pament but that was all i got, it was a no haul job and he tried saying i was supposed to clean it all up and acting like he didnt understand and what not i got screwed out of 800 dollars on that job but i went back and dumped a load of chips right in his front lawn oh i dont understand i thougt you wanted these chips here haha thats the only time ive gotten screwed on a job ive done


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 25, 2009)

ECRUPPRECHT said:


> about a year ago i had a foreign guy try to renig on the deal after the job was done. he gave me a down pament but that was all i got, it was a no haul job and he tried saying i was supposed to clean it all up and acting like he didnt understand and what not i got screwed out of 800 dollars on that job but i went back and dumped a load of chips right in his front lawn oh i dont understand i thougt you wanted these chips here haha thats the only time ive gotten screwed on a job ive done



We should get together sometime, maybe do coffee or something? I have family in St. Johns, Elsie, Ovid, all over out there...


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Nov 25, 2009)

thats cool flick me a pm sometime if your coming around


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## ChipDoogle (Dec 10, 2009)

*Just saw this last saturday, Hitch Climbing on SRT*

I was at a rigging class last saturday, and after the class one of the guys brought the "Will there ever be Ascending/Descending hitch climbing for SRT. 
Rich Hattier of Anchor Bridge Ropeworks showed us a method he picked up awhile back. There were several different ways he set it up, but the way that he seemed to like best I will try to explain. Starts out with whatever type closed hitch you want to use. but then he added a shorter eye and eye going from the closed hitch up to what you see in the picture. A carabiner going thru micro pulley that is holding a bite of rope thru a rated ring. From my understanding this allows your hitch to move more freely by taking some of the weight of it, in essence a midline Ddrt. This should allow you to only have to use one hitch, vs adding a splittail on top of your closed hitch. That is about all I can tell you. Here is Rich's email address if you wanna find out more about it. Hope this helps.

Rich Hattier [email protected].
here is there website http://abropeworks.com/a/bios.php


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## Garden Of Eden (Dec 11, 2009)

ChipDoogle said:


> I was at a rigging class last saturday, and after the class one of the guys brought the "Will there ever be Ascending/Descending hitch climbing for SRT.
> Rich Hattier of Anchor Bridge Ropeworks showed us a method he picked up awhile back. There were several different ways he set it up, but the way that he seemed to like best I will try to explain. Starts out with whatever type closed hitch you want to use. but then he added a shorter eye and eye going from the closed hitch up to what you see in the picture. A carabiner going thru micro pulley that is holding a bite of rope thru a rated ring. From my understanding this allows your hitch to move more freely by taking some of the weight of it, in essence a midline Ddrt. This should allow you to only have to use one hitch, vs adding a splittail on top of your closed hitch. That is about all I can tell you. Here is Rich's email address if you wanna find out more about it. Hope this helps.
> 
> Rich Hattier [email protected].
> here is there website http://abropeworks.com/a/bios.php



Thank you kindly chip. Rep coming to ya. I appreciate you digging this up. That sounds way smoother, maybe less damage to the rope? I'm gonna try this, thanks.

God bless


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