# Pretty cool selective logging tool...



## catbuster (Dec 31, 2009)

It's an 8x8 mini forwarder...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyLsgFdEpU&feature=player_embedded#


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## hanniedog (Dec 31, 2009)

That is pretty slick and i bet pricy too.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jan 2, 2010)

hanniedog said:


> That is pretty slick and i bet pricy too.



:agree2: notice, they didn't show it on a side slope! :monkey:


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## slowp (Jan 2, 2010)

Notice the rutting. They'd have to shut it down and wait for the soil to dry out here. Bad, bad forwarder.


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## dancan (Jan 2, 2010)

slowp said:


> Notice the rutting. They'd have to shut it down and wait for the soil to dry out here. Bad, bad forwarder.



I think that you'll find that the fowarder traveled the same route many times with the same demo logs , I seen a few more of there video's and did not notice it tearing up the woods that bad but they may have chosen better conditions .
What machines have you found that make least mess/rutting in your area ?


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## ShoerFast (Jan 2, 2010)

An 8-wheel drive is going to have good flotation, it's not going to make any more rut then a 4-wheeler followed by a 4-wheeler (ATV), It looks like the same tires/tire loading. 

It's clear that they picked a soft spot to demonstrate it's traction. 

I like the concept, other then is looks a little light for most uses.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 2, 2010)

dancan said:


> I think that you'll find that the fowarder traveled the same route many times with the same demo logs , I seen a few more of there video's and did not notice it tearing up the woods that bad but they may have chosen better conditions .
> What machines have you found that make least mess/rutting in your area ?


.

.

. Helicopters . 
. Skyline yarders


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## tramp bushler (Jan 2, 2010)

Anyone know what they cost and where they can be found >????


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## dancan (Jan 2, 2010)

I had emailed them about six months ago and at that time they no distributors in north america but were working on one .
I haven't looked at Alstor lately but here's a UK distributor .
http://www.alstor8x8.co.uk/


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## dancan (Jan 2, 2010)

These guy's have a Bombadier at the bottem of this page .
http://www.payeur.com/produits/usageusedd.htm
No price so you'll have to drop them a line .


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## tramp bushler (Jan 2, 2010)

Found it ... .........What are those Tractors with the roll up blades and all the cages on them ??? Orange and grey color .


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## slowp (Jan 2, 2010)

dancan said:


> I think that you'll find that the fowarder traveled the same route many times with the same demo logs , I seen a few more of there video's and did not notice it tearing up the woods that bad but they may have chosen better conditions .
> What machines have you found that make least mess/rutting in your area ?



Yarders and helicopters. Oops and reading back through this I see that answer has been given.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 2, 2010)

ground based extraction means disturbance. Visible or not, more than 3 passes with any ground based machine will creat permanent compaction affecting site potential, wet or dry. So, depth of rut does not matter as long as the rutting is mitigated through proper closeout, and the % of the site with significant disturbance is kept to a minimum (hopefully under 6% of total acreage, including landings.) In woods infrastructure can be used for all later harvests, assuming the next harvest uses the same or similar technology, which as slowP will attest to, may or may not be the case.

Forwarders will outperfrom skidder productivity where extraction distances are greater than (depends on particular equipment here) 1/2 mile.

BTW, skidders have a lower psi than human foot....... but thats not exactly measured loaded with a big ol' drag.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 3, 2010)

see if this will work .http://www.payeur.com/produits/usages/P1030562.JPG . The pic wouldn,t paste up so here is a link .. What are these . I see them hooked up to the forwarder trailers and plumbed into the tractors hydraulics .. Pretty slick looking ...!!!. I still like the Forcat best .......Other than price , it doesn,t get any argument from me ..... These rubber tired jobs could be driven down the road tho ...


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## dancan (Jan 3, 2010)

That's a smaller tractor , Kioti , it's been reinforced with a full roll cage and a heavy belly pan to stiffen the frame so you don't break the tractor under heavy flexing , usually a 3pt logging winch (Farmi,Norse,Tajfun etc) mounted in the back . They have made a small hydraulic push blade up front that flips up out of the way for tight woods , a loader and bucket up front works but can be harder to maneuver in the thick but any added weight at the front is an added bonus when winching .
A lot of smaller wood lot owners/operators around here work with this type of setup to some extent , you can pull a lot of wood out with an old 2 wheel drive tractor for not a lot of money but compact 4x4 is more versatile and let you get further into the woods and then the other possibilities open up ....moving snow,snow blower,forks,grapple on the forks or bucket for moving brush,bushhog or small flail mower , see it never stops .
Kinda like a swiss army knife .


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## slowp (Jan 3, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> ground based extraction means disturbance. Visible or not, more than 3 passes with any ground based machine will creat permanent compaction affecting site potential, wet or dry. So, depth of rut does not matter as long as the rutting is mitigated through proper closeout, and the % of the site with significant disturbance is kept to a minimum (hopefully under 6% of total acreage, including landings.) In woods infrastructure can be used for all later harvests, assuming the next harvest uses the same or similar technology, which as slowP will attest to, may or may not be the case.
> 
> Forwarders will outperfrom skidder productivity where extraction distances are greater than (depends on particular equipment here) 1/2 mile.
> 
> BTW, skidders have a lower psi than human foot....... but thats not exactly measured loaded with a big ol' drag.



I spent a Saturday at a seminar. Weyerhauser had some presentations on soil compaction. Strangely enough, their studies found that the trees planted in skid trails only had growth affected for one year. Then the tree roots grew beyond the compacted area and growth was comparable to the trees planted off skid trails. Maybe different soils than other places though.

We're supposed to require subsoiling on all skid trails. My concern is that in a thinning, the subsoiler, which is often a shovel, pops the roots of the leave trees. I talked to the professor who did the Weyco presentation and he thought the subsoiling was way out of date as fare as a BMP. 

The concern here, with operating in mud, is that sediment will get in the creeks. So, if the tracks are rutting for 10 feet and are 6" deep or more, it is time to shut the machine down and go home. 

That really puts a limit on the days when one can skid. July, August and September, probably with a few days in July and September being too wet. Add this restriction to any fire season restrictions, and you can see a timing problem.

We are lucky to have Pumice soils which drain and dry out quickly.


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## 385XP (Jan 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> see if this will work .http://www.payeur.com/produits/usages/P1030562.JPG . The pic wouldn,t paste up so here is a link .. What are these . I see them hooked up to the forwarder trailers and plumbed into the tractors hydraulics .. Pretty slick looking ...!!!. I still like the Forcat best .......Other than price , it doesn,t get any argument from me ..... These rubber tired jobs could be driven down the road tho ...


My uncle had a massey fergusson tractor like those but bigger it had a full role cage. It was was used for skidding small jobs out.
It was a lot easier than moving a skidder he moved it with a f 800 ford. im not sure wich model it was though as its been abou 10 years since i was around it. id say it was about the same size as a 450 g john deere cat.


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## 385XP (Jan 3, 2010)

slowp said:


> I spent a Saturday at a seminar. Weyerhauser had some presentations on soil compaction. Strangely enough, their studies found that the trees planted in skid trails only had growth affected for one year. Then the tree roots grew beyond the compacted area and growth was comparable to the trees planted off skid trails. Maybe different soils than other places though.
> 
> We're supposed to require subsoiling on all skid trails. My concern is that in a thinning, the subsoiler, which is often a shovel, pops the roots of the leave trees. I talked to the professor who did the Weyco presentation and he thought the subsoiling was way out of date as fare as a BMP.
> 
> ...



I think ill keep logging here the weather gets bad her but usually you can still manage to work though. The only times we dont work is during spring break up and if we get a lot of rain in the fall. during the summer we can get a inch of rain in the afternoon and itll be dry the next morning.During the winter it freezes so from december till the end of march its good sailing. As far as soil compaction i think the frost takes care of that arond here. Ive been back on jobs i cut a few years ago and the trails all seem to be growing back shut.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 3, 2010)

Where are these made >> What are their price range ????
. The area where I live and work now has pretty flat , but wet ground . Most of the time I can only work on frozen ground here There are some tractors on Payeur's web site there are some of these with the front wheels the same size. or at least much larger than standard farm tractor tires ... Do you have any experience with these ... big tires wouldn,t fall into holes as easy . Are they heavy duty enough for small scale logging .......
.
. That Astor 8x8 forwarder looks real nice .....especially if they were available here !!!!!!!!! I would like to get one before they make them grow into something bigger than what I want or need !!
.
. 
.http://www.payeur.com/produits/usages/P1030681.JPG...


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## hammerlogging (Jan 3, 2010)

the tractor logging setups are more common up in NY and other flatter places. right of way setups are appropriate for logging, ROPS, FOPS. BUT, you pay a lot for the customizing for a machine that is not as good as a skidder. An older 548 with a swing boom grapple, thats a nice machine for what you need (I'd think)... or a real forwarder with a grapple saw. Unless you're moving a lot. But sonce forestry is ag., you can drive machinery between jobs if its not too far.


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## 385XP (Jan 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Where are these made >> What are their price range ????
> . The area where I live and work now has pretty flat , but wet ground . Most of the time I can only work on frozen ground here There are some tractors on Payeur's web site there are some of these with the front wheels the same size. or at least much larger than standard farm tractor tires ... Do you have any experience with these ... big tires wouldn,t fall into holes as easy . Are they heavy duty enough for small scale logging .......
> .
> . That Astor 8x8 forwarder looks real nice .....especially if they were available here !!!!!!!!! I would like to get one before they make them grow into something bigger than what I want or need !!
> ...


That one looks about like what my uncle had just a different brand except his had sweeps and screens.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 3, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> the tractor logging setups are more common up in NY and other flatter places. right of way setups are appropriate for logging, ROPS, FOPS. BUT, you pay a lot for the customizing for a machine that is not as good as a skidder. An older 548 with a swing boom grapple, thats a nice machine for what you need (I'd think)... or a real forwarder with a grapple saw. Unless you're moving a lot. But sonce forestry is ag., you can drive machinery between jobs if its not too far.


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. Real forwarders cost so much they are , short of a miracle a pipe dream for me ... hundred plus thousand dollars  ..., Ya they are cool until I have to figure out how to pay the insurance on one while selling 200 cord of wood a year?????????????????????????????????? Doubtless an 071 Madill with a riggin crew ,and a drop line carriage , pre setting the snares ., a 320 or 330Cat shovel and 4 log trucks could pump out 50-80 thousand board feet a day , But I don,t need that either ... .. Or a 123 Madill swing grapple yarder can in the right setting put 200,000 board feet on a landing in a day ... Oddly enough a 123 Madill can be bought for close to the price of a Fabteck Forwarder . and it could pick a Fabteck forwarder up and skin er back clear to the tail blocks ................... won,t even start on the helicopters .........
. There are some ok looking Cat , and TimberJack skidders in B.C. but then I,m back to transporting the thing ....$$$$$$$$$$$$$ For my needs and abilities here the Forcat , or this Astor Forwarder is ideal ............ A grapple saw .......... I,m a Faller and a Bucker . Last thing I want is some operators saw yuk .... I need to get a new camera to illuminate all to my little loggin show .. Well it warmed up from -38 to 20 below .F. and I gotta go get a guy a load of wood ........... With a saw , a pulp hook , an Arctic Cat 440 Panther ,home built 1/3 rd cord sled and a 1 ton Ford crummy .....And my back ........... Boy that Astor 8x8 sure does look appealing today !!!!!


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## tramp bushler (Jan 3, 2010)

385XP said:


> That one looks about like what my uncle had just a different brand except his had sweeps and screens.


,

.

. What is a SWEEP ????


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## 385XP (Jan 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> ,
> 
> .
> 
> . What is a sweep ????



limb risers


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## tramp bushler (Jan 3, 2010)

385XP said:


> limb risers


.

.

 ??? 
. Like a roll cage thing or something ???


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## hammerlogging (Jan 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...



pushes the limbs over the cab and exhaust (sometimes integrated) you're driving through brush, tops, whatever. Can double as part of roll over and falling object protection.

tramp: the thing is that Astor probably costs as much as a descent used piece of conventional equip. And far less productive. Yes, moving costs, tract size, and "intangible" things like landowner preference, your preferences, and market differentiation, are somewhere invisible in the $/cord equation.

Sounds like you've found a balance in your system and much of any change will demand a significant increase in production. What that does for net profit is the question I guess.


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## 385XP (Jan 3, 2010)

yes what hammer said is right on the limb risers


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## SWE#Kipp (Jan 3, 2010)

The Alstor is rather pricey here in Sweden but the guy that owns them are very happy with them and there are few to buy secondhand ,,,
But it's a handy machine you can use it as a smaller dump truck and use it for making trenches / ditch in wet areas with the grapple and the bucket accessory, there are a bunch of accessories for it that are cool and usable


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## SWE#Kipp (Jan 3, 2010)

The Vimek mini forwarder is another nice 8wd machine that could be worth to take a look at 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOPPkzJ0Vks


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## tramp bushler (Jan 5, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> pushes the limbs over the cab and exhaust (sometimes integrated) you're driving through brush, tops, whatever. Can double as part of roll over and falling object protection.
> 
> tramp: the thing is that Astor probably costs as much as a descent used piece of conventional equip. And far less productive. Yes, moving costs, tract size, and "intangible" things like landowner preference, your preferences, and market differentiation, are somewhere invisible in the $/cord equation.
> 
> Sounds like you've found a balance in your system and much of any change will demand a significant increase in production. What that does for net profit is the question I guess.


.

.Ya know how much they want for that Astor8x8 ,,,,,in England ----------------27,ooo pounds sterling ......

.
I don,t know what the exchange rate is ... Maybe they get 5 $ a board foot for their junk timber there or something .. A grapple skidder would be great ,but I think it would make me sort of fat and lazy ............


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## tramp bushler (Jan 5, 2010)

a 10- 20 K piece of iron is about what I,m after .. That will pay for itself ....


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## ithica (Jan 5, 2010)

I'll stick with my forcat and log loader/trailer, this thing is not low impact , did you see the swale hole it produced, and he wasn't even loaded. I was on Tremzac's youtube and they have posted some new videos, check this out guys 
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tremzac&search_type=&aq=f

Check out the one called in the mountains ,


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## Meadow Beaver (Jan 5, 2010)

I'd like to have one of those timberpro whole-tree forwarder.


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## Philbert (Jan 5, 2010)

Found this while looking up some of the others.

Philbert

http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/forestry/deere_forestry/forwarders/810d_general.html#


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## slowp (Jan 5, 2010)

The mills out here won't pay as much for short logs. The only forwarder I've seen here was being used as a tailhold.


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## Meadow Beaver (Jan 5, 2010)

*Slowp ever seen one like this?*

http://www.tanguay.cc/T800.html


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## des170stihl (Jan 5, 2010)

*Do They Take Trade Ins*

That is pretty slick. I would,nt mind tradin my little Massy for one.:greenchainsaw:


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## tramp bushler (Jan 6, 2010)

Big machines = big bucks ..... 
. Those arn,t mountains ... We have MOUNTAINS in ALASKA .vermont has little rolling hills .......
.
. I think they need to work on safety first in the videos . Skidders arn,t made for riders ........ I would have liked to see them do some loggin with the Forcat ... the one tree they had sucked up to the arch was ok 
.
I do think the Forcat is about the best out there ...... for the money ... The Awassos is twice the money and it is just a small wheel skidder ...over 80 K US $ ....The little 8x8 is 27,000lbs Sterling , which is prolly alot of US dollars , and it would need a ship to get it here ......


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## joesawer (Jan 6, 2010)

The sweeps are what is missing on the 230 Timber Jack.
I am not sure that I buy the whole soil compaction theory. Look at what frost does to maintained roads.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 6, 2010)

Ah , thanks Joe !! In most places it don,t hurt the ground ,just the humans who look at it


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## slowp (Jan 6, 2010)

MMFaller39 said:


> http://www.tanguay.cc/T800.html



Nope. For shovel logging shovels are used. Track mounted machines.


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## dancan (Jan 6, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Ah , thanks Joe !! In most places it don,t hurt the ground ,just the humans who look at it



From the studies I have been told about and may have even read about here as well , ground compaction only seems to affect growth in the first year but it will affect humans for several .


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## tramp bushler (Jan 7, 2010)

Your a good guy Dan!!!:yourock:


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## catbuster (Jan 7, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> pushes the limbs over the cab and exhaust (sometimes integrated) you're driving through brush, tops, whatever. Can double as part of roll over and falling object protection.
> 
> tramp: the thing is that Astor probably costs as much as a descent used piece of conventional equip. And far less productive. Yes, moving costs, tract size, and "intangible" things like landowner preference, your preferences, and market differentiation, are somewhere invisible in the $/cord equation.
> 
> Sounds like you've found a balance in your system and much of any change will demand a significant increase in production. What that does for net profit is the question I guess.


 

Sweeps look like this: (their the things on the front.)






Say, if you were picking high-grade hardwood,had a 2 saw plan (Say 460 and 260 stihl) and a 6-9 ton(maybe even a 12-14 ton?) mini ex for hoe chucking and 1-2 of these (with an op for each and a faller/bucker) you could get some decent porduction of 20-30" max high-grade hardwood.


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## 385XP (Jan 7, 2010)

catbuster said:


> Sweeps look like this: (their the things on the front.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what exactly would the 260 stihl be for?


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## tramp bushler (Jan 8, 2010)

. If I was in 20-30" hardwood I would be running a 660 if I had to run a Stihl . Prolly a 395 , or at least a 390 if a Husky ..... .. Why the 260 ?????


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## joesawer (Jan 8, 2010)

The 260 is for the truck driver to put behind his seat for a while, then eventually take out and run over.... LMAO


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## tramp bushler (Jan 8, 2010)

Your a funny guy Joe :hmm3grin2orange:opcorn:


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## tramp bushler (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for the definition on the Sweeps . and what fops is ... Couldn,t figure it out ........ Ya a 650 John Deer dozer would be nice , but a skidder would be better ......and a forwarder better yet ...


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## joesawer (Jan 8, 2010)

joesawer said:


> The 260 is for the truck driver to put behind his seat for a while, then eventually take out and run over.... LMAO





It is true! I have seen it happen. Once with a 260, then a few weeks later with a 250.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 8, 2010)

That guy Needs to be sent { walkin down the road kickin rocks mad and talkin to himself } !!!!!!


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## Timberjackboy (Jan 9, 2010)

*skidder or dozer*

No offense but those little toys wouldn;t mean much if you got to hook onto a tractor trailer and try to drag out of a mud hole or over a patch of ice. just yesetraday I was trying to pull a International Eagle pulling a self loading log trailer closer to the pile and he got his drives down in a hole and I couldn't pull him with the skidder, actually had to pull a head and winch him and he wasn;t even stuck real bad, didn't have rear chains on the skidder either. But if you got a bad spot and have to get a truck in and all you got to work with is a forecat or a iron horse you may as well tell the trucker to stay home. They would be good for firewood harvesting and that's about it. Also what if you got into a really rocky area, tracks just don't compete with rubber tires crawling over rocks. Also you would be a long time getting a truck load of wood out with that iron horse. for the price you pay for those toys u could probably find a good used skidder or even a dozer


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## joesawer (Jan 9, 2010)

Timberjackboy said:


> No offense but those little toys wouldn;t mean much if you got to hook onto a tractor trailer and try to drag out of a mud hole or over a patch of ice. just yesetraday I was trying to pull a International Eagle pulling a self loading log trailer closer to the pile and he got his drives down in a hole and I couldn't pull him with the skidder, actually had to pull a head and winch him and he wasn;t even stuck real bad, didn't have rear chains on the skidder either. But if you got a bad spot and have to get a truck in and all you got to work with is a forecat or a iron horse you may as well tell the trucker to stay home. They would be good for firewood harvesting and that's about it. Also what if you got into a really rocky area, tracks just don't compete with rubber tires crawling over rocks. Also you would be a long time getting a truck load of wood out with that iron horse. for the price you pay for those toys u could probably find a good used skidder or even a dozer [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## tramp bushler (Jan 10, 2010)

Timberjackboy said:


> No offense but those little toys wouldn;t mean much But if you got a bad spot and have to get a truck in and all you got to work with is a forecat or a iron horse you may as well tell the trucker to stay home. They would be good for firewood harvesting and that's about it. :


. This week I grossed $ 1285.00 cutting ,yarding, loading and delivering , FIREWOOD .. Thats what I do !!!!!!..... Since I,m the trucker , and the truck is also my crummy , and there is only me , I better NOT GET IT STUCK .. My yarder is an Arctic Cat 440 Panther . with a sled I built on my deck from a 55 gal drum some 2x4 s and at first a pair of down hill skis with the bundings taken off ... They only lasted 7 cord .. I put P Tex plastic on and have since brought out 70 cord on that 1 sled ....Still works great .......
..
. This little logging business of mine is an exercise in what 1 man can do with the help of God , and alot of hard work ,starting with a pickup and a couple power saws ............... . You are right that a skidder or dozer can be got on the used market alot cheaper than a ForCat . But as Joe brought up . I can,t move it in the back of my pickup .......The Forcat is a half to 3/4th cord skidder .. My sno go and sled is a 1/3 rd - 1/4 th cord , manually loaded forwarder ...Hi , I,m Manual ................. ..... I do not know if I will be able to afford a Forcat . But I hope to .. actually the Forcat 2000 is what I would prefer its lighter ....... There ain,t any rocky ground in the Copper Basin that I have found yet .. But some nearly bottomless thawed permafrost sink holes .......I would be scared as a cat on a hot tin roof taking a dozer some places I will need to go in the summer .. Not the Forcat .......
I appreciate your knowledge and experience , but I really did find the perfect machine when Tarzan posted the vid link to the Forcat ....


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## Timberjackboy (Jan 10, 2010)

well all the power to yah then ole boy, if you are just sticking to firewood and doing the hauling your self then yes a forecat would be the cats behind. I was just saying if you were ever thinking of cutting big truck loads of wood and had to buy a truck or hire a trucker, because a lot of places if the ground gets a little slimy or even you get ice thrown in there the truck will need a little tug every now and again. Plus I could see the forecat having problems getting over large rocks and things, when I was running grapple we worked in an area where there was rocks the size of volts wagon beatles and halftons and somtimes you would have to get out of the skidder and scratch your head and try to pick the smallest rock to get over. hard to find a nice handy little machine now adays you ever look into this one

http://www.argoatv.com/utility/recdetailvehicles.aspx?x=wEKEkIx3MKc=


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## WidowMaker (Jan 10, 2010)

*Serious ???*

Why are they called forwarders????


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## Stihl Hyde (Jan 10, 2010)

Cause they brings logs forward to the landing I reckon


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## tramp bushler (Jan 11, 2010)

Ya , I can double my weekly income if I can tripple my logging to the landing . To do that I have to stop picking up the wood by hand where I fall it .... If I had a sustainable market for more than that , someone else would have moved in before me ....... I like where I,m at and thanks to Osama ,I mean Obama I don,t have to worry about having any employees ..So I can enjoy working alone .. A small dozer or better yet a skidder would work very well , but the Forcat would be perfect ........Someone gets stuck , well they can get themself unstuck ......The timber industry in Alaska is very different than where you are ... I,m not feeding a mill , There is more money in me selling firewood .. Plus my timber sales are for beattle killed spruce ... Salvage logging .....


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## 385XP (Jan 11, 2010)

It sounds like you have a prtty good thing goin for ya.That forcat looks a better every time i see it on video.Have you herd anything about the durability of them?


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## joesawer (Jan 11, 2010)

385XP said:


> It sounds like you have a prtty good thing goin for ya.That forcat looks a better every time i see it on video.Have you herd anything about the durability of them?



I like the looks of it also. It makes me want to build something like it with a grapple and a winch, for small parcels.


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## 385XP (Jan 11, 2010)

joesawer said:


> I like the looks of it also. It makes me want to build something like it with a grapple and a winch, for small parcels.


Yes there are certain jobs that a small machine would be nice for and i think the fire wood business would be one of them.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 11, 2010)

Shawn ; is the sales man I have delt with he has sent along a bunch of vids ect. So far Ithaca , a poster on here is the only one I have read who actually has and logs with one ...... From the sounds of it he loves his ... He has the forwarder trailer with his ..........
. I honestly have no idea how much money a contract logger makes ... It has to be quite a bit to afford all that diesel and expensive iron ................ 

I do however know how much I need to make . and the Forcat will make it for me ..... 
.

The Argo isn,t tough enough IMO . there are lots of them around here . They are a perfect moose hunting rig as they will pack a moose out and but for bashing into logs , no . And they are pretty spendy , 15 grand ect ..... I can get a small Komatsu dozer for 11 k . But I will have to build an arch and find a hydraulic winch .??? still doable ..


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## Turkeyslayer (Jan 11, 2010)

I have been using a tractor/winch combo and am very happy with it. Around here it is flat with semi deep ravines 150'+,and it is amazing where the tractor will go at only 66" wide. And the winch will pull an impressive amount. I also pull the setup behind my 1 ton no problem.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=116946


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## tramp bushler (Jan 12, 2010)

Turkey slayer . That is a great setup, was it less than 20 K $ ....... You came to the same realization I did ,only you figured it out alot sooner than I did ..


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## Turkeyslayer (Jan 12, 2010)

It was closer to 30k Canadian, but I bought new from a local dealer. From what I have seen they can be had at a better price in the US, which I believe would get you closer to the 20k mark.


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## Turkeyslayer (Jan 12, 2010)

If thinking about tractors a good place to look is here:http://www.tractorhouse.com/


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