# Domino Felling Question



## YankeeinSC (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi folks;

New to the forum with my first post

I just got a job to remove 14 beetle killed pine trees and a red oak with some funky cambium layer fungus that killed the tree. Straight forward - no hazards, power lines, nor structures. The jobsite however has a potential for some hang-ups, especially if we can’t get permission to fall onto a neighboring property. One will have to be climbed and de-limbed or at least have several mid height limbs taken off first, but to keep the price reasonable, the quote didn’t include much climb time. For the most part we’ll say the trees are in the midst of standing woodlot and my intention is to fell all but one or two of them.

We’ve all seen it on AxMen, multiple trees being felled at once in a domino like chain. Having a “residential hazard rigging & removal mentality” I’ve never worked a big timber/logging company open woods harvest. I’d always thought that multiple simultaneous felling was being done for drama, the camera and ratings, so the question is this: Is there a valid reason for falling several trees at once and should I consider a similar technique to lessen the chance of a hung tree with this particular job?


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## TDunk (Mar 7, 2009)

I was taught once the tree is notched, bring it down before you start on another. Plus, pine trees aren't noted for there hinges holding up the best, especially dead ones. But, I've seen a guy cut down 3 palm trees at once because the "limbs" get tanged up in each other and there just like being tied together. I prolly wouldn't try it, but i tend to play things a little on the safe side.


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## Little Monkey (Mar 7, 2009)

domino felling is not an official technique, it is difficult and dangerous and most likely against u.s. safety regulations, to be honest there are some situations when it is use full, if it goes wrong you will have trees falling in uncontrolled directions or will end up with multiple hang-ups which are extra dangerous because they have been cut from the stump, unless you are very experienced i would not attempt it or you might end up with alot more then you bargained for, only last month a local man was killed here by a hung up tree that fell on him and he had been logging most his life.


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## ray benson (Mar 7, 2009)

Read somewhere that domino felling was not approved by the Canadian Safety board or OSHA.


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## BlackenedTimber (Mar 7, 2009)

I think the potential for disaster outweighs any potential time savings and cool factor using the domino trick to fell several trees. Using a pusher to fell another tree that has already been faced and backcut, with nothing but the hinge holding it, sounds like a real gamble. I havent tried it, and I dont think I will.

Also, you mentioned that you were familiar with crowded residential removals, with all of the climbing and complicated rigging and felling. If you are experienced in that area, I would stick with that type of work, rather than trying out some new technique, with which your not experienced, and which has proven over the years to injure or kill.

My pops used to have a little plaque in his office that said "If you cant find the time to do it right, when will you find the time to do it over?" If you dont do this right, you may not get to do it over.

Stay Safe.


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## arbadacarba (Mar 7, 2009)

If you can tell someone which way each pin will fall every time before the bowling ball hits them then domino falling is for you. - Otherwise it's not a really good idea either for yourself or anyone else in the vicinity. More than one person in falling teams has lost their life to this. Most jurisdictions outlaw it as a matter of course, and I sure wouldn't use Axmen as my learning tool except for how to ##### for no reason! If those guys really were professionals there is no ****** way they would let anybody film them doing some of the things they do!


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## clearance (Mar 7, 2009)

arbadacarba said:


> If you can tell someone which way each pin will fall every time before the bowling ball hits them then domino falling is for you. - Otherwise it's not a really good idea either for yourself or anyone else in the vicinity. More than one person in falling teams has lost their life to this. Most jurisdictions outlaw it as a matter of course, and I sure wouldn't use Axmen as my learning tool except for how to ##### for no reason! If those guys really were professionals there is no ****** way they would let anybody film them doing some of the things they do!



I have done it. It is not allowed. Only one tree to push another tree and only then to overcome difficulty. This guy is right, domino falling has killed many people in this province, also according to the Fallers and Buckers manual I have read many times.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 7, 2009)

TDunk said:


> Plus, pine trees aren't noted for there hinges holding up the best, especially dead ones.



exactly 
If I am clearing multiple pines I will star at the outside and work my way in clearing a felling path as I go. A big shot and pull line comes in very handy when working dead pines.
welcome to site and be careful.


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## jar1zx (Mar 7, 2009)

domino tree falling. its not safe. u dont have as much controll as u do with one tree. and dead pines even worse. when i logged for my dad i think domino tree falling was with some of the things not 2 do. would get the whole crew fired

i also remeber if i loged a tree i would have to stay with that tree till a skidder pulled it 2 the ground.


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## randyg (Mar 7, 2009)

*Exception to the rule?*

To set up a domino effect with two or more dead pines not recommended. Start with the one most likely to go all the way to the ground, and then the next and so on. IF AND ONLY IF one does not go all the way to the ground, you might see a way to drop another on top to slap it down. 

With healthy trees, if several need to be felled against the lean, you can set up a series and jack/wedge the lowest up over into the next to PUSH it uphill into the next and not have to jack/wedge them all BUT if you don't do EVERYTHING exactly right you end up under the pile end of story. 

How big are these dead pines anyway?


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 8, 2009)

randyg said:


> How big are these dead pines anyway?



The dead pines range from 18 to 22 inches, typical Carolina trees, tall (60-65') thin and straight, with few limbs until you get to the surrounding canopy. The dead oak is about 16 inches. Wedges yes, but I think a bottle jack and steel plates in a notch would be over kill in almost all of these trees. I can most likely get a throwline 2/3 of the way up in each tree and there are plenty of healthy trees for leverage points for a 3-1 truckers hitch for "persuasion". Most of the trees are within 30 feet of the long gravel road to the man's house, so a little F-350 based leverage may also be used as order progresses. 

The owner also wants one healthy larger 28 inch pine removed too. The larger healthy pine is the leaner of the bunch. His wife wants to keep it because it "adds character to the property" That tree will be climbed, limbed, topped and sectioned down just like I would do if it was leaning over someone's family room. It is right on the road edge and can’t be safely dropped till it's down to about 35'. Recent rains have made the ground too soft for climbing this leaner any time soon. It will be the last tree in the plan to give the owner and his wife more time to come to agreement and give me time to work on the more urgent beetle kill problem.

Here's another problem: The big leaning pine leans across the road and over the neighboring property. It would be nice to just drop it on the gravel road, but doing so would require falling about 90 degrees from the prevailing and rather pronounced 20 degree lean. I am leery to pull very hard with a vehicle on this tree because of the lean. I also worry about a fracture halfway up the trunk. It's also big enough to take my biggest bull rope beyond it's rated strength. Not really looking for any short cuts here, as this was the one tree where climb time was figured into the quote, just wondering what others would plan to do. Any suggestions?


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## AT sawyer (Mar 8, 2009)

Doesn't this technique invite hangups? What do you do if your second domino gets hung because you didn't cut a good notch on your third and is leaning towards your already notched fourth? Sounds like you'd better have a winch ready before putting this technique into practice.

I suspect that the videos only show the "successful" falls and not all the ones that got messed up. Certainly fodder for that "Feller's Gone Wild" video.....


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 8, 2009)

After reading the "Fallers & Buckers Handbook" from the Canadian WCB in it's entirety today, I can't say that there is any validity in the domino felling "technique". So I guess indirectly arboristsite participants answered my question (I found the suggestion to read the pamphlet on another thread first). Simply enough, the handbook makes the common sense conclusion, that once a tree is even touched with a saw, it is a risk to more than just the faller to do anything in the area until that tree is safely on the ground. It's hard to make an argument for using the technique and further makes the drama of reality television programming akin to uplifting stupidity, but we all knew that right?

After this removal is done, I'll let the thread know how it went and what if any problems I had with a well planned, one at a time progressive felling order that makes as much use of falling into clear areas as possible. I have a plan and a few back up plans for the unexpected. The heavy leaner is just going to have to be sectioned down. As for the potential hang-ups every effort will be made to avoid safety compromise problems beforehand.

Seems like an interesting group of participants here.


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## randyg (Mar 8, 2009)

*Domino NOT*

Glad you have ruled out the domino idea here. Throwing line in and re-direct at ground level w/pulley to F350 sounds like a real good plan here for all but the leaner. If you have a good anchor directly opposite the leaner, you could throw a line in it at around 30 or 35 feet and pull it back up a bit, tie it off, and then climb it without waiting for ground to get hard or whatever. If you can't trust ground when wet, are you sure you can when it dries? I wouldn't. I enjoy my job a ton more when I eliminate as much risk as possible before jumping in. When in doubt, tie it off.


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 14, 2009)

Good news so far. 11 of the 14 are now safely down, limbed and bucked into 8+ footers to mill (a story for the milling threads-the insect damage appears bark deep only?), or stacked as firewood lengths. 3 trees to go and two of them are easy compared to some that were worked over the past two days. Brushing out the bases made the whole process safer for sure. 

The leaner will be last. After reading more, and some measuring the leaner only runs off about 9 or 10 feet at about 80 feet tall. Plumbing from the furthest point of trunk lean, it's easy to measure the lean. The limbs are another story. I guess it possible to measure all of the limbs and figure the weight that each weighs toward or away from the lean, but I think it's safe to just say, that since the limbs are all high enough to be significantly off center from plumb, that they all add to the lean force.

Here's the good thing. The pine doesn't weigh nearly as much as I thought it did. Other species I am more familiar with are much heavier. I was surprised how easily several sections skidded out with the chain behind the truck. Rolling big pine logs around is a snap compared to hardwoods. Felling with a directional line up high put all of the trees within a few degrees of where they had to be to avoid hang ups. Some were light enough to really redirect with a heavy pull by hand on the line.

With that in mind I think the leaner will be pre loaded with the assistance of the truck, notched then loaded more, then dropped and pulled 90 degrees to it's prevalent lean. I still owe the thread some photos, but thanks so far.


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## clearance (Mar 14, 2009)

Good for you. The pine is light cause its dead, live pine is heavy.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 15, 2009)

clearance said:


> Good for you. The pine is light cause its dead, live pine is heavy.



+1 Exactly


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 15, 2009)

YankeeinSC said:


> l (a story for the milling threads-the insect damage appears bark deep only?
> 
> 
> Those damn bark beetles!


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## Col2y (Mar 15, 2009)

TDunk said:


> But, I've seen a guy cut down 3 palm trees at once because the "limbs" get tanged up in each other and there just like being tied together. I prolly wouldn't try it, but i tend to play things a little on the safe side.



that was eric, the vids on here somewhere


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 17, 2009)

Here's the photos. At dusk this evening 13 of the 14 are down. Had to wait through rain and deal with mud and drainage today, but took time to get a shot of the last remaining leaning pine. It's now confirmed that we don't have permission to drop it past the road itself. The neighbor wants to protect the brush line for "privacy reasons"


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## woodchux (Mar 18, 2009)

Looks easy enough.. Id have it down in less then 20 minutes.


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 18, 2009)

woodchux said:


> Looks easy enough.. Id have it down in less then 20 minutes.




I think I might just do that this morning :greenchainsaw:


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## Dadatwins (Mar 19, 2009)

That property has some serious pine bark beetle problems, you will be back there by the end of the summer.


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 19, 2009)

Well; Here's where she fell. I wanted it just a little more to the left than it lays in the photo. I used wedges, an angled notch, a rope at about 60 feet and I still fell nearer to the lot line than I wanted to be. A rope back into the woods would have been nice to keep the fall on the road but I worried that it would snag on trees and pull the leaner too far into the woods or ruin my bull rope. Anyhow it's all done now. Cant wait to get back to rigged removals. You guys can have this open woods work!







Here's how I cut the notch. I tried to leave more holding wood on the underside of the lean. It' worked OK but I think without a rope to control fall radius I only got so much from the notch. There must be a better way?


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## woodchux (Mar 19, 2009)

You tapered the holding wood backwards...


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## YankeeinSC (Mar 19, 2009)

woodchux said:


> You tapered the holding wood backwards...



Yep I now see that! Thanks! there's always next time.


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## arbadacarba (Mar 20, 2009)

woodchux said:


> You tapered the holding wood backwards...



I was going to say the same thing, but I obviously didn't need to. Its great to see the trees down and great to see the support from everybody and how well you took the advice. Good job!


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## randyg (Mar 20, 2009)

*One more quickie*

Another quick tip - if you leave more hinge wood and pull the tree over rather than rely mainly on gravity, you get more control further thru fall. Bore middle of hinge wood to prevent barber, allows for thicker hinge yet, esp. on up-hill side.

Another? Don't tell where you intend to fell tree. Then, where ever it lands, say "PERFECT".


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