# I get to top a tree...



## pdqdl (Oct 11, 2010)

I got a call today from a customer that wants his tree topped. I mentioned to him (over the phone) that topping isn't too good for a tree, and his response was "So what! It's my tree!".

Needless to say, I ain't gonna try too hard to talk myself out of a job. My bid ticket reads: "_Two trees in front yard. Remove the smaller, leave a 2'- 3' stump with a level top. The bigger tree needs crown reduction, topping is desired by customer."_

I know some of you guys would pass on this, but I'm not. Just because the customer calls for topping doesn't mean that we can't do a better than average job of butchering their tree.


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## lxt (Oct 11, 2010)

opcorn: this should get good!!



LXT............


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## lone wolf (Oct 11, 2010)

Hope you get paid some people are nuts.


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## Cutler tree (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm new so tell me if I'm wrong but when I get those calls I won't turn them down but I try to talk them into raising the canopy. I just bid one today like that. I think I'll get it too, I just explain that topping is more than likely going to kill the tree and from a curb appeal standpoint, you'll see the house better with the bottom branches removed and symetrical.


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## treemandan (Oct 11, 2010)

Go for it! Just make sure you hack the outside far enough back so it make flopping the inside out easy. If its going to make it easier don your spikes but I wouldn't go putting no yard sign up!opcorn: I hope you get pics.
I wouldn't be surprised if I land a topping gig myself now though it has been some time since.


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## ATH (Oct 11, 2010)

I have never had a problem educating a customer out of topping.

I personally would refuse the job if topping was the final decision. I need work for the long-term more than I need the work now...but that is just me - you gotta do what you've gotta do.


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## CNBTreeTrimming (Oct 11, 2010)

Job I did last Saturday was severe wind damage on a previously topped bradford pear. Request was to re-top. Got in the tree, nearly every branch had fungus and rotten wood. Large dead branches in the center. Needless to say job changed tree is down. Glad cause I was not wanting to put my name on that.


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## Rftreeman (Oct 11, 2010)

either you do it the other guy will, like the H/O said, it's his tree....


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## UnityArborist (Oct 12, 2010)

*Turn it down and keep your integrity*

More work will be coming it always does. Don't lose you integrity and reputation. Also there is the question of liability. If in five or ten years after the water sprouts have gotten big on breaks and damages something or hurts someone that is on your head. You are the professional make the right choice.


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## Sunrise Guy (Oct 12, 2010)

:notrolls2:


pdqdl said:


> I got a call today from a customer that wants his tree topped. I mentioned to him (over the phone) that topping isn't too good for a tree, and his response was "So what! It's my tree!".
> 
> Needless to say, I ain't gonna try too hard to talk myself out of a job. My bid ticket reads: "_Two trees in front yard. Remove the smaller, leave a 2'- 3' stump with a level top. The bigger tree needs crown reduction, topping is desired by customer."_
> 
> I know some of you guys would pass on this, but I'm not. Just because the customer calls for topping doesn't mean that we can't do a better than average job of butchering their tree.



I was going to keep this our little secret, but----

:notrolls2:


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## newsawtooth (Oct 12, 2010)

It's not just about integrity, liability for trees damaged by topping is a bigger concern. Not lost value but damage to life and property from the water sprouts and rotten branch unions. The primary objective of pruning is to reduce the risk of failure. A little money made now could cost more later. Besides, topping is a lot of work.


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 12, 2010)

I wont do it, however, if it was Christmas and i had no money.............................I would get a job at Mickey D's!


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 12, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I got a call today from a customer that wants his tree topped. I mentioned to him (over the phone) that topping isn't too good for a tree, and his response was "So what! It's my tree!".
> 
> Needless to say, I ain't gonna try too hard to talk myself out of a job. My bid ticket reads: "_Two trees in front yard. Remove the smaller, leave a 2'- 3' stump with a level top. The bigger tree needs crown reduction, topping is desired by customer."_
> 
> I know some of you guys would pass on this, but I'm not. Just because the customer calls for topping doesn't mean that we can't do a better than average job of butchering their tree.



Topping is an "ART" so remember there will be no leaves to hide imperfections , make sure you snap pics of you in the process of doing the dirty deed , and I want to see every branch equally hacked like a lolli-pop


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 12, 2010)

CNBTreeTrimming said:


> Job I did last Saturday was severe wind damage on a previously topped bradford pear. Request was to re-top. Got in the tree, nearly every branch had fungus and rotten wood. Large dead branches in the center. Needless to say job changed tree is down. Glad cause I was not wanting to put my name on that.



BRADFORD pears are a topping magnet , and they actually look quite nice if done correct and if you hit them in March they will need it again in June , maybe we should rename Topping to "Tree resizing", and no one has to feel bad about doing it ...It almost sounds responsible


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## Rftreeman (Oct 12, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> BRADFORD pears are a topping magnet , and they actually look quite nice if done correct and if you hit them in March they will need it again in June , *maybe we should rename Topping to "Tree resizing"*, and no one has to feel bad about doing it ...It almost sounds responsible


we already have a fancy name for topping, it's called "crown reduction"......lol.....


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## UnityArborist (Oct 13, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> BRADFORD pears are a topping magnet , and they actually look quite nice if done correct and if you hit them in March they will need it again in June , maybe we should rename Topping to "Tree resizing", and no one has to feel bad about doing it ...It almost sounds responsible



Imagine if for once in the history of Bradford Pears one actually had structural pruning done from a young age. Has anyone out there seen one with a centralized leader? 

Did pdqdl ever say the tree to be topped was a Bradford Pear?


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## pdqdl (Oct 13, 2010)

An update: we quoted $1300 for a whole bunch of work, in addition to some "crown reduction". In fact, the bid was for removing only a couple of branches over the house, and some thinning elsewhere. The tree has been topped before, only a couple of years ago, so no topping was needed. 

The guy was pretty drunk when my salesman was talking to him, and he was adding all kinds of work that had not been mentioned in the original call. Our initial impression is that we won't get to top any trees for this guy, no matter how bad we want to.


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## Ed Roland (Oct 13, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I know some of you guys would pass on this, but I'm not. Just because the customer calls for topping doesn't mean that we can't do a better than average job of butchering their tree.



Your aim is to perform a better than average job of destroying your clients tree?

fascinating...


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## pdqdl (Oct 13, 2010)

No; That's not what I said!

If the customer requests that we do a destructive trimming to a tree, we should be able to do it skillfully with less destruction to the tree than our competitors. If you look at everything I say with a plan to see the only the worst in it, I'm sure that you will generally be successful.:bang:


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## Ed Roland (Oct 13, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> No; That's not what I said!
> 
> If the customer requests that we do a destructive trimming to a tree, we should be able to do it skillfully with less destruction to the tree than our competitors.:



You mean those competitors that are not ISA certified? How is performing tree topping in compliance with accepted professional standards?

Look, maybe not everyone. Maybe not even the majority but many here do practice science based arboriculture. You have to expect some disagreement when you start a thread about whoring out your services as an arborist to top a tree. Your Justification seems to be because you want the money and you will somehow be able to top this tree more "skillfully" than the other guys. 



pdqdl said:


> If you look at everything I say with a plan to see the only the worst in it, I'm sure that you will generally be successful.:bang:



I can see how you might think this after our latest go round with turf vs tree in another thread but I respect your knowledge. Always have. Especially your thoughts on soil fertility. This has not stopped me from disagreeing with you from time to time, though. This is one of those rare times.


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## arbor pro (Oct 13, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> No; That's not what I said!
> 
> If the customer requests that we do a destructive trimming to a tree, we should be able to do it skillfully with less destruction to the tree than our competitors. If you look at everything I say with a plan to see the only the worst in it, I'm sure that you will generally be successful.:bang:



An extremtly portly man walks into the local clinic. "Hey Doc", I've got a problem. I've gotten too fat. I don't fit in my house. I've outgrown my bed, I dwarf all my furniture and I'm afraid that, if I don't lose some weight fast that I'll have a heart attack. So, how's about cutting off my arms and legs and fifty or so pounds of gut? That'll take off some substantial weight fast and I'm sure I'll look and feel better.

The Doc replies, "Well, I'm a pretty skillful doctor so, how's about we just cut your hands and feet off to start with and maybe start with 20 or 30 lbs of gut? Then we'll liposuction out another 50 pounds of fat and do a tummy tuck to get rid of all the excess skin. It's less destructive than cutting your entire arms and legs off and you'll still get the results you're looking for...


...a slow and agonizing death".


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## pdqdl (Oct 13, 2010)

Ed Roland said:


> You mean those competitors that are not ISA certified? How is performing tree topping in compliance with accepted professional standards?



It isn't. Point taken. 



> Look, maybe not everyone. Maybe not even the majority but many here do practice science based arboriculture. You have to expect some disagreement when you start a thread about whoring out your services as an arborist to top a tree. Your Justification seems to be because you want the money and you will somehow be able to top this tree more "skillfully" than the other guys.



Y'er right. I was definitely putting my neck out on the chopping block and daring everybody to take a whack at me. 



> I can see how you might think this after our latest go round with turf vs tree in another thread but I respect your knowledge. Always have. Especially your thoughts on soil fertility. This has not stopped me from disagreeing with you from time to time, though. This is one of those rare times.



Ok. I'll take my whipping. I'm afraid I don't have a single snappy comeback in my defense. The only defense that I have in this thread is that in the end, we neither quoted nor did we try to sell any tree topping. :sword:

If the customer had stood their ground and insisted on it...yep. I'm a tramp; have chainsaw, will cut where requested.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 13, 2010)

Wasn't gonna post, but, nope, would not do it it. If you can be bought, you can be sold.
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 14, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> . If you can be bought, you can be sold.
> Jeff


Awesome!
Gonna put that one in my pocket! Save it for later!!

Meet with an older couple 2 days ago, wanted me to top a Cherry, told them nope, explained why I cannot not do it.
They where very nice and I thought I convinced them to just a light pruning, yesterday they had it topped! Guy did a great job too! 2 big sticks in the wind, each with a little branch with 1-3 leafs


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## pdqdl (Oct 14, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> ... If you can be bought, you can be sold.
> Jeff



I'm not sure what that means, Jeff. Are you trying to tell us that if we do what our customers ask us to (bought), that we can be replaced by them (sold) ?

All you guys that will only do your variety of arboriculture remind me of a true story that happened to me many years ago. Since we are all selling personal services for money, we are all prostitutes after a fashion.

Here goes:

I was driving an over-the-road semi in the early 80's, and was stranded waiting for a load in Texas, near the Mexican border. I met several other truck drivers in similar straits, and we decided to cross the border and go to "Boys Town", the Mexican red light district. Unknown to me at the time we embarked on this venture, the other two truck drivers were looking for prostitutes. I was a bit new to the concept of "Boys Town", and didn't know what I was getting into.

One of the guys was trying to _remain faithful to his wife_, and only wanted oral satisfaction dizzy. It turned out that the hooker he selected that evening was _remaining faithful to her husband_! While conventional intercourse was ok in her book, she was unable to provide any oral services because she considered that an unacceptable activity; she wouldn't lower her standards to meet that kind of service request. So...the customer choked her by the neck until she returned the unearned service fee. 

In the end, the service provider was considered a poor vendor of services, and the customer would not consider using that vendor again, only because the customer was seeking a service that was not provided by the vendor. _Any consideration that the service provider had good integrity by sticking to her standards was completely lost on the customer._

Sound familiar guys?


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## arbor pro (Oct 14, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I'm not sure what that means, Jeff. Are you trying to tell us that if we do what our customers ask us to (bought), that we can be replaced by them (sold) ?
> 
> All you guys that will only do your variety of arboriculture remind me of a true story that happened to me many years ago. Since we are all selling personal services for money, we are all prostitutes after a fashion.
> 
> ...



Seriously? You're going to compare professional arborists to prostitutes? Apparently, you don't understand what a professional arborist is. A tree hack may be a good comparison to a prostitute - each will do just about anything for money. However, the difference between the two is that even a prostitute has some moral standards. Tree hacks....well?


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## pdqdl (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm sure that the hooker in my little saga felt unfairly treated by the customer, also. She stuck to her professional standards, and it isn't her fault that the ignorant customer didn't properly know how male problems were supposed to be reduced. Stupid customers!

Puts a whole new meaning onto "crown reduction", doesn't it?


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## Rftreeman (Oct 14, 2010)

when it comes to topping, there's the ones that will do it and talk about it then you have the ones that will do it and call it crown reduction..........lol......


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## mr. holden wood (Oct 14, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> when it comes to topping, there's the ones that will do it and talk about it then you have the ones that will do it and call it crown reduction..........lol......



Hacks like you spike a third of the way up a tree and start slashing, pure topping. Sound familiar?
I pull up to the job site asses the tree, break out the big shot, srt to the crown and start subordinating the branches to solid laterals. Crown reduction is one of the most challenging aspect of my job. Im tired of you minimizing this important part of tree work just because you are either to lazy to perform proper tree care or lack the skills to do so. 
You justify your ####ty work practices with the motto of "If i don't do it someone else will" post after post.. How about putting in the time to learn about what crown reduction really entails? Ask a few questions were here to help.


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## TrillPhil (Oct 14, 2010)

UnityArborist said:


> Imagine if for once in the history of Bradford Pears one actually had structural pruning done from a young age. Has anyone out there seen one with a centralized leader?
> 
> Did pdqdl ever say the tree to be topped was a Bradford Pear?




I have... didnt look like a bradford pear was very tall for a bradford atleast 30ft and spindly looked as though it had never been pruned... We weren't there for the bradford but some rather large sugar maples with dead wood over the house.


People have been tearing #### up to suit their needs, just about, since day one. Is it tacky, yes, is it a liability, yes, are there better ways to do it, yes... but the fact is the majority of people want to go with the cheapest service. Very often I try to give a synopsis of why doing something would not be in the best interest of the tree and more harmful 5-10 years from now and am met with crazy looks and lack of attention after 15-30 seconds. 

As stated in another thread, not everyone knows the intricacies of tree work however everyone knows neat and tidy.


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## mattfr12 (Oct 14, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> You justify your ####ty work practices with the motto of "If i don't do it someone else will" post after post.. How about putting in the time to learn about what crown reduction really entails? Ask a few questions were here to help.



Thier are those that are gonna get paid and those that are not. sure everyone would always love to work to ANSI standards and all that great stuff, but its just not real world thinking. Alot of the time the H/O already knows whats best for thier tree and you might aswell leave your arborist card at home because they could care less what you think and want it done thier way.

and if you pass on jobs that your letting someone else do your just shooting yourself in the foot. hew doesnt like money.

The first words out of my mouth after someone says toping is that i cannot garuntee how the tree will turn out if it will rot or if it will even live. it is flat out bad for your tree. its even in our contract that we are not held liable for tree death after topping.

anytime your cutting back major leads of any tree even if your going back to laterals it is still bad for your tree. thats just a fancy way of toping.


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## mattfr12 (Oct 14, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> when it comes to topping, there's the ones that will do it and talk about it then you have the ones that will do it and call it crown reduction..........lol......


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## pdqdl (Oct 14, 2010)

I consider a true crown reduction to be the better alternative to something much worse for the tree...

R E M O V A L !

If the customer is unwilling to accept the behemoth hovering over their house, you only get two choices: remove the tree, or remove the offending branches. If that can be done properly, even ANSI says that we get to take it down to size. I generally recommend a gradual process, rather than "fancy-named" topping.


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## mr. holden wood (Oct 14, 2010)

anytime your cutting back major leads of any tree even if your going back to laterals it is still bad for your tree. thats just a fancy way of toping.[/QUOTE]

Crown reduction doesn't involve cutting back major leads, thats topping. You don't need to justify your ####ty work to me. Your crap work creates yearly corrective pruning for me and tons of other legitimate arborists..


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## Rftreeman (Oct 14, 2010)

*hacks like me*



mr. holden wood said:


> Hacks like you spike a third of the way up a tree and start slashing, pure topping. Sound familiar?
> I pull up to the job site asses the tree, break out the big shot, srt to the crown and start subordinating the branches to solid laterals. Crown reduction is one of the most challenging aspect of my job. Im tired of you minimizing this important part of tree work just because you are either to lazy to perform proper tree care or lack the skills to do so.
> You justify your ####ty work practices with the motto of "If i don't do it someone else will" post after post.. How about putting in the time to learn about what crown reduction really entails? Ask a few questions were here to help.


lmao.....I'm sorry but who the #### are you, you don't know #### about me or my work, I was probably climbing without hooks before you could wipe you own ass but today, I don't climb #### unless I have too cause I have it like that, my hired climber does it for me and while you're getting out the big shot (yeah, I got one to) I'm already setting the line by hand and when I'm done the tree (which would impress you) looks good, the client is happy and so is my bank account...as for asking questions from you, the only thing I can learn from you is how to get my panties in a wad and cry like a little ##### because joe blow topped a tree and got paid good money to do it......


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## Rftreeman (Oct 14, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Crown reduction doesn't involve cutting back major leads, thats topping. You don't need to justify your ####ty work to me. *Your crap work creates yearly corrective pruning for me and tons of other legitimate arborists.*.


no it doesn't, they will continue to call me back to do a "crown reduction" because you will refuse to do what they want and I'll get paid again while you spend the day un-wading your panties...


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## Rftreeman (Oct 14, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I consider a true crown reduction to be the better *alternative to something much worse for the tree...
> 
> R E M O V A L !*
> 
> If the customer is unwilling to accept the behemoth hovering over their house, you only get two choices: remove the tree, or remove the offending branches. If that can be done properly, even ANSI says that we get to take it down to size. I generally recommend a gradual process, rather than "fancy-named" topping.


90% of the time I end up selling removal and replanting something that will mature at a shorter height because most of the time the reason for "crown reduction" is the fear of the height of the tree.....


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## ozzy42 (Oct 14, 2010)

I ''crown reduced '' two trees today.
Reduced them to a height apr.8 in below ground level.


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 15, 2010)

This is ArboristSite right?
If y'all wanna argue with us about topping tree's. 
Then why are you here? 
Too piss us off I guess. 
If you top, you suck. PERIOD.
You need to go to HackerSite.Com and leave this site, because, really! you don't belong here!
You guys talk about how your making money while we, who don't top are sitting on the sidelines watching you "laugh all the way to the bank" you say,Get real,they choose topping because they obviously cant afford a pro, so that is why they hire you. I have many, MANY things to stress about, but a few things I NEVER stress about are, my money, my reputation, and my conscience. All the little stars under your names don't mean jacks#@t
when you do the ultimate sin of my industry, get out and go away, so the real Arborist can keep learning more about how to care for tree's, not murder them. Remember, It does not matter the justification that you make up.
IF YOU TOP, YOU SUCK
end of story


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 15, 2010)

:agree2:
Jeff


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## Grace Tree (Oct 15, 2010)

I thought the ultimate "sin of my industry" was spiking trees. You should do your research. 'Or maybe don't drink so much Red Bull; you seem kind of excited.
Phil


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 15, 2010)

Small Wood said:


> I thought the ultimate "sin of my industry" was spiking trees. You should do your research. 'Or maybe don't drink so much Red Bull; you seem kind of excited.
> Phil


:hmm3grin2orange:
Coffee, no Red Bull.............yet
Spiking, IMO, is second, only too topping.
Ill lay off the juice!


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## treeslayer (Oct 15, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> This is ArboristSite right?
> If y'all wanna argue with us about topping tree's.
> Then why are you here?
> Too piss us off I guess.
> ...



:rant:
:agree2:


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## Rftreeman (Oct 15, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> This is ArboristSite right?
> If y'all wanna argue with us about topping tree's.
> Then why are you here?
> Too piss us off I guess.
> ...


:hmm3grin2orange: DON'T HATE, PARTICIPATE.....


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## tree MDS (Oct 15, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> Hacks Vs. Arborist!opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> The ISA CA would be more meaningful if the ISA would yank some Certs. I might even go for mine again.



That's the way I feel about the CT arborist license lately.. seems the hacks are using it to their empowerment.


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## Don't-B-Stumped (Oct 15, 2010)

At the risk of sounding stupid I must ask, what is a big shot? I'm mostly a stump guy so I don't know all the arborist terms.
I will also add that topped trees are ugly no matter how uniform they have been cut. Just my opinion.


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## Grace Tree (Oct 15, 2010)

don't-b-stumped said:


> at the risk of sounding stupid i must ask, what is a big shot? I'm mostly a stump guy so i don't know all the arborist terms.
> I will also add that topped trees are ugly no matter how uniform they have been cut. Just my opinion.


Big Shot

Big Shot Line Launcher

The easiest way to get your line into the tree, this line launcher works like a giant slingshot to launch lines up to 100 feet. Can be used with a standard throw weight and throw line system, or with the specially designed bullet weights on this page. The big shot is equally popular with arborists, competition climbers, and recreational tree climbers. Being able to put your throw bal and line through the target crotch with precision and speed is definitively worth the investment.

OR


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## ddhlakebound (Oct 15, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> This is ArboristSite right?
> If y'all wanna argue with us about topping tree's.
> Then why are you here?
> Too piss us off I guess.
> ...



Great post, but rather than have them go to hackersite.com and continue topping, I'd really rather they stay here and STOP TOPPING. 

I know I'm dreamin....but the best we can do is stay the course, and let the (mostly) old timers who'll top at request go the way of the dinosaur. 

It is troubling to see a young guy like mattfr12 taking up the "If I don't top it for pay, someone will" mantle, tho. Hopefully he's not an old dog yet, and he can still learn a new trick. 

I wonder how many homeowners would realize how bad topping is if even 4 out of 5 bidders refused to do substandard (hack) work. 

Another way to deter homeowners who ask for topping is to make a recommendation for quality work, give the price, then a removal price, then a topping price that's 175-200% of the removal price. 

"Why so much to top it?" they ask. 

"Don't you think ruining your tree and my reputation should be worth that much?"


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## Garden Of Eden (Oct 15, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> Another way to deter homeowners who ask for topping is to make a recommendation for quality work, give the price, then a removal price, then a topping price that's 175-200% of the removal price.
> 
> "Why so much to top it?" they ask.
> 
> "Don't you think ruining your tree and my reputation should be worth that much?"



Quick question, while playing devil's advocate. What if the customer says ok, top it? Do you then renig your end of the deal? Seems to me my word has got to be worth more than any reputation I may or may not have.

Again, just a curious question. I, personally, took an oath to protect and provide for my wife. While I haven't topped a tree, if it's not immoral, or illegal, it gets done to put food on the table. Again, I'm not a hack topper, I never have topped. But like someone else said, McDonalds is always hiring, and I'm not above any job.

Just thinking out loud...


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## ddhlakebound (Oct 15, 2010)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Quick question, while playing devil's advocate. What if the customer says ok, top it? Do you then renig your end of the deal? Seems to me my word has got to be worth more than any reputation I may or may not have.
> 
> Again, just a curious question. I, personally, took an oath to protect and provide for my wife. While I haven't topped a tree, if it's not immoral, or illegal, it gets done to put food on the table. Again, I'm not a hack topper, I never have topped. But like someone else said, McDonalds is always hiring, and I'm not above any job.
> 
> Just thinking out loud...



I've yet to find anyone who was willing to pay 2x removal price to still have a hacked up future hazard. 

If someone were to agree to it, the terms of the contract would make them think a third time. If they still wanted it topped and signed the contract, I'd sub it out and move on. 

But I'm 99% sure that by that point they have found someone who'd hack it for far, far, less.


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## Garden Of Eden (Oct 15, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I'd have no problem telling them I was just joking and that they will have to find someone who doens't know much about trees.



Cool. Just checking.


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## Garden Of Eden (Oct 15, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> I've yet to find anyone who was willing to pay 2x removal price to still have a hacked up future hazard.
> 
> If someone were to agree to it, the terms of the contract would make them think a third time. If they still wanted it topped and signed the contract, I'd sub it out and move on.
> 
> But I'm 99% sure that by that point they have found someone who'd hack it for far, far, less.



I totally agree with you. However, we do live in the US, where stupid, ignorant people are everywhere. Just think of all the dumb things that have been suggested and said here on AS alone, let alone out side of here. lol

I like the idea of walking from a customer. I've had more than one call me back once they met the other guys. I try and be as professional and honest as I can, hence the questions.

Thanks for the speedy replies gentlemen.

God Bless


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## Don't-B-Stumped (Oct 15, 2010)

Small Wood said:


> Big Shot
> 
> Big Shot Line Launcher
> 
> ...



Thanks for that info. Especially the Donald Trump part. funny


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## Garden Of Eden (Oct 15, 2010)

Don't-B-Stumped said:


> Thanks for that info. Especially the Donald Trump part. funny



I just find it ironic that Smallwood, has a Bigshot... Just comical to me.


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## Rftreeman (Oct 15, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> I've yet to find anyone who was willing to pay 2x removal price to still have a hacked up future hazard.
> 
> If someone were to agree to it, the terms of the contract would make them think a third time. *If they still wanted it topped and signed the contract, I'd sub it out and move on. *
> 
> But I'm 99% sure that by that point they have found someone who'd hack it for far, far, less.


you won't do it but you'll sub it out, classic.......


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## PFirebird (Oct 15, 2010)

For those who consider topping from time to time as a way of keeping busy, realise that your approach only looks at the short term and asks 'do I want this job today?' 
Another approach is to consider 'what type of business do I want to run?' One that has no real standards. Or one that I am proud of, knowing I run it honorably. With the first, you're forever stuck in the day to day scrounging of more work just to get by. With the later, you operate on another level where most things plaguing the scrounger are insignificant. 
And, the type of work you do- good tree work or destructive tree work- really has nothing to do with your money situation, or your bills, or that your just trying to keep guys busy or blah blah blah.


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## Rftreeman (Oct 15, 2010)

I do not top trees.........


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## 056 kid (Oct 15, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> This is ArboristSite right?
> If y'all wanna argue with us about topping tree's.
> Then why are you here?
> Too piss us off I guess.
> ...





Whats wrong with murdering trees? Thats all I do. 
You havent been here very long to be telling people that they dont belong here. . . .


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## Rftreeman (Oct 15, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> I do not top trees.........



the hired help does..........lol.....


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 15, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> the hired help does..........lol.....



Stop your killing me


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## tree MDS (Oct 15, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> the hired help does..........lol.....



That the kid that leaves all the stubs everywhere on a removal? I remember him! lol..


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 15, 2010)

UnityArborist said:


> Imagine if for once in the history of Bradford Pears one actually had structural pruning done from a young age. Has anyone out there seen one with a centralized leader?
> 
> Did pdqdl ever say the tree to be topped was a Bradford Pear?



The pear tree is the mulberry version of a nice landscape , I hate them in every way they are trash , If I had my way I would have never seen one go into the ground , and too think when I was 17 I was digging them right out of the nursery for there fine shape and relatively maintenance free reputation (which was all BS) now look we so many 15/20 year pieces of garbage growing on every lawn ..


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 15, 2010)

I think it depends on the type of clients you have. I am fortunate that we do very very few residential work. It is alot easier took talk to clients that want good work at a reasonable price versus a home owner that is looking for what he or she wants done and the lowest bid. To some, trees are a nuisance, to some, they are to be cared for. 
Would you take you own child to the cheapest doctor and tell him what to do to help your nuisance, or to a real doctor and let him take care of your child. 
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 15, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Whats wrong with murdering trees? Thats all I do.
> You havent been here very long to be telling people that they dont belong here. . . .


 
Oh sorry, guess I didn't realize that only the "senior" member's on here can talk, oh wait, forgot, Actually I joined in 2001, one day it wouldn't let me in, started over, that said, can I talk now, with your permission first of course, beings ya know, you have been here longer, got more stars too.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 15, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> Oh sorry, oh wait, forgot, Actually I joined in 2001, one day it wouldn't let me in, started over.



I got your back on that!
Jeff


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## 056 kid (Oct 15, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> Oh sorry, guess I didn't realize that only the "senior" member's on here can talk, oh wait, forgot, Actually I joined in 2001, one day it wouldn't let me in, started over, that said, can I talk now, with your permission first of course, beings ya know, you have been here longer, got more stars too.



I dont care what you do. . . Your an arborist. . .


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## Rftreeman (Oct 15, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> That the kid that leaves all the stubs everywhere on a removal? I remember him! lol..


nah.... I had to cut him loose, he always wanted to argue about whats right for the tree.....lol........got me an old dog now and he ain't learning any new tricks either....


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 16, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I got your back on that!
> Jeff


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## tree MDS (Oct 16, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> the hired help does..........lol.....



Oh, that's right.. almost forgot, you too fat these days.


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## treeslayer (Oct 16, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Oh, that's right.. almost forgot, you too fat these days.



thats why fat guys top, cant get high enough to prune......:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Rftreeman (Oct 16, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Oh, that's right.. almost forgot, you too fat these days.





treeslayer said:


> thats why fat guys top, cant get high enough to prune......:hmm3grin2orange:


not so much being fat but being heavy from carrying all the cash I make topping...lol.......


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## tree MDS (Oct 16, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> not so much being fat but being heavy from carrying all the cash I make topping...lol.......



You go Fatty!


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 16, 2010)

Sad- 
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Oct 16, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Sad-
> Jeff



Ah, cheer up Jeffers.. looks good from your house right..

It is sort of sad to hear someone take no real pride or interest in their work though - especially after doing it for so long. I hear you there.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 16, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Ah, cheer up Jeffers.. looks good from your house right..
> 
> It is sort of sad to hear someone take no real pride or interest in their work though - especially after doing it for so long. I hear you there.



I do not know what to say.
Jeff


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## treeslayer (Oct 16, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> not so much being fat but being heavy from carrying all the cash I make topping...lol.......




touche.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 16, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Ah, cheer up Jeffers.. looks good from your house right..
> 
> It is sort of sad to hear someone take no real pride or interest in their work though - especially after doing it for so long. I hear you there.



Are you trying to piss me off? My Boss did not hire me 10 years ago because of my looks- I am ugly!!! 
Jeff , and I know you don't me mean me when you say no pride!
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 17, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Are you trying to piss me off? My Boss did not hire me 10 years ago because of my looks- I am ugly!!!
> Jeff , and I know you don't me mean me when you say no pride!
> Jeff



No JEFF we all know how proud the NORSK fisherman are , so go and pet the turtle and relax alittle , you are starting to scare the children ..


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## tree MDS (Oct 17, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Are you trying to piss me off? My Boss did not hire me 10 years ago because of my looks- I am ugly!!!
> Jeff , and I know you don't me mean me when you say no pride!
> Jeff



I thought we were talking about Tubby the topper Jeff.

You'll know when I'm trying to piss you off.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 17, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I thought we were talking about Tubby the topper Jeff.
> 
> You'll know when I'm trying to piss you off.



Up early I see KEGS AND EGGS ?? I have to go to a game in a hour ..


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## tree MDS (Oct 17, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Up early I see KEGS AND EGGS ?? I have to go to a game in a hour ..



Haha. Thought I would stop by for some hate with the morning coffee.


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## Bermie (Oct 17, 2010)

I have just picked up an awesome property...because...the caretaker didn't like all the topping that was being done by the landscrapers!

I have to admit though, trying to fix previously topped trees can be a pain in the ass. I spent hours in the bucket truck with nothing more than a silky saw (spindly 'white cedars' _Tabebuia_) and its going to take a few seasons to get any kind of structure restored. Luckily they are ornamentals, no targets below, worth the attempt at restoration.

Also after the hurricane, the repair jobs on topped trees is a pain, they only failed because of all the consequenses from the topping...plain as the nose on your face.

Now, Casuarinas...they can be cut WAY back...but you can tell the difference between mine and the hackers!


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## Rftreeman (Oct 17, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I thought we were talking about Tubby the topper Jeff.
> 
> You'll know when I'm trying to piss you off.


That's Mr. Tubby the Crown Reduction Pro to you buddy........


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