# S&W vs. Colt?



## ancy (Dec 2, 2012)

Looking at getting an AR-15 platform in .22LR and looking at the S&W M&P 15-22 and the Colt AR-15/22. Not really set on either one and might be a better one out that I don't know about. Looking at input on everything, what ammo they like to build quality. I know I want one that can cycle cheap ammo with raising 3 boys that like ammo.


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## ancy (Dec 3, 2012)

no one?


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## mdavlee (Dec 3, 2012)

The guy at the local gun shop only sells the S&W 15/22 and says he's not had any returns or problems with them. I've been debating between one of them and another bolt action 22 to shoot short range target stuff when I can't shoot over 100 yards.


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## husqvarnaguy (Dec 3, 2012)

I would go with S&W. Get the detachable grenade launcher too.


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## dingeryote (Dec 3, 2012)

ancy,

Do yourself a favor. Just start shopping for S&W M&P15-22 mags, and considering upgrading to the custom shop 15-22 if you're an accuracy freak. The Custom shop upgrades to a 1-15 barrel and tighter chamber really help accuracy even with cheapo promo ammo, and the trigger is much better. Upgrading to an aftermarket trigger isn't hard to do yourself though, and the std. 15-22 accuracy is decent. The S&W 15-22 Mags are pretty much the standard for reliabilty, and lots of guys run them in thier aftermarket conversions. The Smith&Wesson is definately the way to go for a dedicated unit.

The Colt "Thing" is one of the biggest pieces of #### ever to get foisted on the shooting public and will likely get pulled from the Colt line up soon. It's that friggin' bad. 

One of our Township PD's officers is a Colt freak, and had to have one of the AR15-22's as soon as they came out.
It's been a constant PITA, and hard luck story. Mags are expensive as hell and hang up for no reason, extractor broke after just a couple boxes of shooting, constant short cycling, poor accuracy even with Match ammo, and good luck getting the thing to cycle with Match ammo.
It's been back to Colt twice in the year he's had it, and I have worked on it a couple times to correct the feeding issues stemming from the crappy chamber and a rough as a cob bolt face.
Just a miserable POS!! On top of it all, it isn't even made by Colt, and is just another relabeled pile of junk from Umarex.
Some dealers dumped thier entire inventorys to get out from under them a while back, and one was even torqued enough to post this.
Colt Umarex AR-15 .22LR – Gunbroker Saga

He called it "Colts Toilet plunger"






And the "Colt Pooper scooper".






Your kids are gonna love the S&W!!!
Cool Dad points are hereby awarded!!!!!!!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## RandyMac (Dec 3, 2012)

Dang, thought this was going to be a revolver thread.


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## D&B Mack (Dec 3, 2012)

S&w.


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## ancy (Dec 3, 2012)

Really thinking S&W after spending the day watching and reading reviews. 

Any info on the Mossberg 715t or the Sig 522. I have a Sig Mosquito and man it is picky as hell on ammo.


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## D&B Mack (Dec 3, 2012)

ancy said:


> Really thinking S&W after spending the day watching and reading reviews.
> 
> Any info on the Mossberg 715t or the Sig 522. I have a Sig Mosquito and man it is picky as hell on ammo.



+1 on the Mosquito. I got it in pink for my wife when she started shooting. Took forever to find good ammo. The full slide action is good for training.


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## ancy (Dec 3, 2012)

D&B Mack said:


> +1 on the Mosquito. I got it in pink for my wife when she started shooting. Took forever to find good ammo. The full slide action is good for training.



What do you shoot. I found federal red box of 40 rounds treats me good all the way around.

Sent from my XT881


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## ancy (Dec 3, 2012)

dingeryote said:


> ancy,
> 
> Do yourself a favor. Just start shopping for S&W M&P15-22 mags, and considering upgrading to the custom shop 15-22 if you're an accuracy freak. The Custom shop upgrades to a 1-15 barrel and tighter chamber really help accuracy even with cheapo promo ammo, and the trigger is much better. Upgrading to an aftermarket trigger isn't hard to do yourself though, and the std. 15-22 accuracy is decent. The S&W 15-22 Mags are pretty much the standard for reliabilty, and lots of guys run them in thier aftermarket conversions. The Smith&Wesson is definately the way to go for a dedicated unit.
> 
> ...




Well I was looking at Colt because of my Post-Ban Match Target H-BAR that I love but I see the reviews and wow to bad they didn't make their own gun!!


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## dingeryote (Dec 3, 2012)

ancy said:


> Really thinking S&W after spending the day watching and reading reviews.
> 
> Any info on the Mossberg 715t or the Sig 522. I have a Sig Mosquito and man it is picky as hell on ammo.



While I am a fan of Mossy Shotguns and thier bolt .22's, the 715 is just the plinkster in a fancy wap.
One of Mossys lesser attempts, and a budgetized effort to stay in the .22 Autoloader market.

The one Sig 522 I have played with, seemed pretty good. I didn't get to run it, but it's owner is an anal retentive Cop that calls whenever any of his toys burp..or he thinks burped. He's had it since Mid summer, and besides goofing up the mounting of a scope(Over torqued and stripped Weaver rings), he hasn't called about any issues. The one thing that kinda bugged me was the stock looked sort of cheesy, and the things come without sights. Spend that kind of $$ and it better have sights IMO. 



Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## ancy (Dec 3, 2012)

Also picking up a Keystone Cricket for the new one and a Mossberg 510 Mini for the two older ones. Wish I could get a short barrel on that Mini, all that weight way out there doesn't help them little ones much. That's what got me looking at the Mossy, looks alittle cheap.


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## dingeryote (Dec 3, 2012)

ancy said:


> Well I was looking at Colt because of my Post-Ban Match Target H-BAR that I love but I see the reviews and wow to bad they didn't make their own gun!!




ancy,

I have a love /Hate thing going with Colt, thanks to them going through cycles of Brilliance and then utter stupidity like this.

Supposedly the second generation of the Walther/Umarex/Colt 15-22's were better, but the design is still Crap. 
The Bolt catch is cosmetic and flops pointlessly, the Mag catch is vague at best, and better triggers can be found on Cap guns.
I can see why Walther wont put thier name on it.

The same Colt that cranked out the ACE and service model ACE, Brilliant works of functioning art, and then they foist this thing on the market under thier name.

I suppose to a collector it's just one more model to have in the safe, but geez!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## dingeryote (Dec 3, 2012)

ancy said:


> Also picking up a Keystone Cricket for the new one and a Mossberg 510 Mini for the two older ones. Wish I could get a short barrel on that Mini, all that weight way out there doesn't help them little ones much. That's what got me looking at the Mossy, looks alittle cheap.





Darn things are already snubbed off at 18.5", and the polymer stock is what messes things up. Gets worse with a loaded Mag tube.
An old customer had the same complaint with his 835, and after him grousing about refusing to cut the barrel and re-cut for chokes(Back bored barrel w/short taper/ rib in the mix..ugly.) I packed a fist sized Gob of #6's mixed with Marine-tex into the voids under the buttpad.
He thought I was a miracle worker untill I clued him in. Never even noticed the increased overall weight.:hmm3grin2orange: 

Seeing as how it's a kids shotgun, one of the smaller inertia(Mercury was the old standby) recoil reducers might add some counter balance, and take some thump out of the buttpad. You might have to drill through a couple of the support ribs to get a fit, and glop it in with epoxy, but they work.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## ancy (Dec 3, 2012)

18.5"=legal 14"=perfect might try the stock filling thing. Need to get the trigger pull down on the 3 Crickets I'll have too. Any ideas there?

Sent from my XT881


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## dingeryote (Dec 3, 2012)

ancy said:


> 18.5"=legal 14"=perfect might try the stock filling thing. Need to get the trigger pull down on the 3 Crickets I'll have too. Any ideas there?
> 
> Sent from my XT881



ancy,

I have done triggers on a couple.
Those Cricketts come from the factory with LOTS of sear engagement, and most of it is Burr city. 
The Return spring is fine, so leave it alone. Just a bit of polishing without changing angles on engagement surfaces will do it. A fine white ceramic flat finishing stone is about as aggressive as ya need to get. They are a simple trigger, and you'll figure it out once you look at it, but if you have reservations, any good 'smith can hook you up.

Yeah, the fact that making a shotgun fit a kid properly bieng subject to a 200 Tax is ridiculous and contrary.
Taxed for not having a legitimate MILITARY application, yet the same Tax is levied on the transfer of M1919A4's...don't get me started.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## jdc123 (Dec 3, 2012)

dingeryote said:


> ancy,
> 
> I have a love /Hate thing going with Colt, thanks to them going through cycles of Brilliance and then utter stupidity like this.
> 
> ...


I had an eighties-vintage Combat Commander that could have been better fitted by a chimp on cocaine. I understand the new 1911's are better?


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## dingeryote (Dec 4, 2012)

jdc123 said:


> I had an eighties-vintage Combat Commander that could have been better fitted by a chimp on cocaine. I understand the new 1911's are better?



LOL!!

Yeah, things got really crappy with Colt for a long time. By the looks of things, they are making some serious efforts, but are still behind the old series 70's and QC can still be spotty. For the price, a used Les Baer or Nighthawk is still a better option. 

Colt Recently secured the USMC MEU-SOC/MARSOC contract, so they will either tighten the hell up on both sides of the house due to the 1911 production bieng moved to the other side of the fence that splits the factory(Literally) floor, or they will screw it up totally...again.
I wish them luck, and applaud a non Cerebrus/Freedom group entity maybe getting ahead.

Stay Safe!
Dingeryote


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 4, 2012)

Random thoughts from the Peanut Gallery

First I wanted to reply sooner, just was busy, sorry about that.

Six months or so ago I too started looking at AR style 22s. Long story short, the S&W MP15-22 was the best choice for me. 

As the Colt was made by Walther, the same people that produced the P22 that in my opinion based upon the one I owned was the worst firearm ever produced on the planet, I was not going down that road. If it was made in Hartford so I could drive it 40 miles to the factory to get it serviced maybe. Another strike, mags though apparently plentiful on line were no where locally. I like Colt ARs, own 3, but this rifle is a Colt in it's rebadged name only.

The Sig 522 was another option. I shot one and handled muliple samples at the local shops. The stock fit on all was terrible. The foregrip was very loose and sloppy meaning even if you sandbag it the chances of a decent group are poor. Consistency is imperitive and having the front grip moving isn't going to help. Next issue were the sights. They are crap. Plus Sig infinite in their stupidity, altered the front sight height so it is not compatible with any standard Picatinny rail mount rear AR MBUS sight. The oddball front sight height also means an Aimpoint, EOTech or any other standard red dot sight set up to co-index with standard AR sights will not work in this method with the Sig. In short, instead of making the 522 compatible with the AR, one of the most popular platforms for accessories, you're going to have to buy certain options from Sig and Sig alone.

The Ruger SR-22 was another option. It's a 1022 in Tacticool clothing so the dependability and function is certainly there. It uses standard Ruger 1022 mags found everywhere. It's a heavy rifle for a 22 which is not a deal killer but what knocked it off my list was no provision for iron sights, its an optics only platform.

Now to the S&W. It has a lot going for it. Though it is a blowback design and not gas operated like an AR the controls placement and function are identical to the AR platform. The lower will accept most AR upgrade triggers. This was a biggie as I have a spare Jewell 2 stage floating around that should go in with minimal expletives. The stock trigger in mine feels pretty much like the standard AR trigger in terms of weight and creep. It has improved a little as I put more rounds through the rifle. The standard sights are decent for a 22, not battle grade, but hey it is a 22. I mounted an EOTech on mine for fast target acquisition when the bird feeders are assaulted by squirrels. It co-indexes beautifully with the iron sights so I see no reason the Aimpoint, Burris, Vortex, etc. wouldn't as well. I stayed away from the Performance Center model as I shoot a lot of CCI Stingers and they are not recommended for the PC model. 

In terms of ammo for the M&P I have found CCI Mini-Mags, Stingers, and Winchester SuperX all work well with no issues either going in or coming out. The Remington Golden Bullets were OK but did cause several FTF.

Well there you have my 2 cents, take from it what you will.

Take Care


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## stihl sawing (Dec 4, 2012)

Haven't even looked at the new colts, The S&W looks good to me. I own several old colts but i imagine the new ones are made cheaper than the old ones.


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## D&B Mack (Dec 4, 2012)

ancy said:


> What do you shoot. I found federal red box of 40 rounds treats me good all the way around.
> 
> Sent from my XT881



CCI Mini Mag

I also sanded down the edges on the slide, made it a little smoother.


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## ancy (Dec 4, 2012)

Swamp Yankee said:


> Random thoughts from the Peanut Gallery
> 
> First I wanted to reply sooner, just was busy, sorry about that.
> 
> ...



Good write up and review, Thanks!

I was reading that they did have some frame flex when bench shooting, anything you ran across?


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## ancy (Dec 4, 2012)

D&B Mack said:


> CCI Mini Mag
> 
> I also sanded down the edges on the slide, made it a little smoother.



Thought about that but instead ran around a thousand rounds through it, seemed to help. Have you noticed anything between the two springs and different ammo?


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## D&B Mack (Dec 4, 2012)

ancy said:


> Thought about that but instead ran around a thousand rounds through it, seemed to help. Have you noticed anything between the two springs and different ammo?



Never really compared the springs vs. ammo. Mainly because the problem is on the ejection, not the return; seems the problem has always been too low of pressure to get the slide back far enough. The short stroke seems to cause the loading problems.


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 4, 2012)

ancy said:


> I was reading that they did have some frame flex when bench shooting, anything you ran across?



Nope.

When sighting in the stock sights and the EOTech from the bench I used sandbags as I always do. I can see where a bipod or rigid rest under the handguard could act as a fulcrum concentrating the weight in a small area putting some inconsistent pressure / forces on the barrel. 

Take Care


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## ancy (Dec 5, 2012)

dingeryote said:


> ancy,
> 
> I have done triggers on a couple.
> Those Cricketts come from the factory with LOTS of sear engagement, and most of it is Burr city.
> ...



Okay took a look at that trigger and your just smoothing everything out? Never worked on triggers but love to learn and my 7 year old does too. Thanks 

Sent from my XT881


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## dingeryote (Dec 5, 2012)

ancy said:


> Okay took a look at that trigger and your just smoothing everything out? Never worked on triggers but love to learn and my 7 year old does too. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my XT881



Ancy,

You're not breaking any sharp corners, changing any angles, or altering geometry in any way...just polishing.
If you sharpie darken the contact surfaces and reassemble, then dry fire, you'll see the contact irregularitys and engagement a little better.

A plain old extra fine Arkansas stone, is about as coarse as you want to go, and sneak up on it. 
You wont end up with a Canjar match quality trigger by any means, but much better than the gritty abomination ya started with.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## ancy (Dec 5, 2012)

*Well as long as it doesn't take them 2 fingers to pull it!*


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## dingeryote (Dec 5, 2012)

ancy said:


>



When done, a thin film of gunslick or lithium grease applied to the Sear surface and corresponding surface on the striker really helps, and stays put.

Just remember to degrease it before going on the Polar bear hunt. Ya don't want it to stiffen up in the arctic cold and all that...:hmm3grin2orange:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Joshc4x4 (Dec 19, 2012)

The gun shops around here say the colts are always coming back for repair.. there best sellers are the SW and the ruger.. i have had both and it would be hard to choose because they both were great and never had problems.. but if i had to choose i would go with the SW just because it was the first one i had and has had more rds through it


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## sgt7546 (Dec 19, 2012)

ancy said:


> Looking at getting an AR-15 platform in .22LR and looking at the S&W M&P 15-22 and the Colt AR-15/22. Not really set on either one and might be a better one out that I don't know about. Looking at input on everything, what ammo they like to build quality. I know I want one that can cycle cheap ammo with raising 3 boys that like ammo.



Rep sent for keeping the next generation involved in shooting sports.


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## derwoodii (Dec 20, 2012)

I've been competing with some others elsewhere and always beaten by this chap with his SWMP15 reckon it proved a bit here.
This is off hand no sling no support only x5mag 50yards i canna get better score than 46 with ma 22/96.


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