# It's here!!!!............Inside the MS661



## blsnelling

After a long wait, the MS661 has finally been released here in the US. Sales were held up while the existing inventory of MS660s were sold. Saws became available to order Monday, arriving in dealers yesterday. I ordered mine yesterday afternoon and picked it up after work on the way home today. 

I'm particularly liking the looks of the air filtration and AV. The air filter is sealed with rubber connections, similar to the MS261. The media is that of the HD2. This should make for a great combination. The AV is all spring. Another item of interest are the thin piston rings. These rings are only .047" thick, less than 1.2mm. The less friction and drag from rings, the better for me. The air filter cover is a simple 1/4 turn twist lock. No longer do you have to tighten it way down to make sure your air filter is sealed. I was surprised to see it came with dual dawgs and a roller chain catcher. It is quite nose heavy with this 36" ES bar. I would highly recommend the ES Light bar, which I will be using but is currently mounted on my 395XP.


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## blsnelling

Not choked up here...










...or here.










Fiber exhaust gasket










All spring AV mounts


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## blsnelling

Very clean combustion chamber and squish band.



































All metal flywheel.






























Piston ring





56mm bore


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## pioneerguy600

opcorn:


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## 1Alpha1

Tear that *itch down. 

Oops sorry.......was thinking about Ferguson.


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## lone wolf

opcorn:opcorn:


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## porsche965

Here we go! Nice job getting everyone some Thanksgiving to watch on AS site! Heck with the parades on T.V.


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## blsnelling

Checking squish, two sides at a time.


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## blsnelling

That's all I have for now. I have two customers saws to port before I start working on this one.


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## Milkman31

Looking good!!!!


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## blsnelling

BTW, warranties are overrated


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## certified106

Man this is gonna get good!!!


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## old-cat

Just like a little kid, you've gotta rip your new toy all apart before you even play with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## redbull660

needs a wrap handle. I'm just sayin!


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## Magnumitis

Nice grass


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## bryanr2

blsnelling said:


> BTW, warranties are overrated



I didnt know saws come with warranties?


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## Dilly

My goodness that thing is beautiful!!! Man oh man a saw like that would be nice to have I might have to get this instead of a new welder!


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## bryanr2

Warranties are just like safty chain.... something that needs to be discarded before the first cut.


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## MustangMike

We want to see it in the wood, before & after!

Nice looking saw.

Brad, I know it is lighter & stronger (more HP) than a stock 660, but did they size it down any?


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## Jacob J.

Are my eyes fooling me or do those rings have oil grooves?


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## blsnelling

Jacob J. said:


> Are my eyes fooling me or do those rings have oil grooves?


They do seem to have some kind of groove. I figured that was to aid break-in. No?


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## blsnelling

MustangMike said:


> We want to see it in the wood, before & after!
> 
> Nice looking saw.
> 
> Brad, I know it is lighter & stronger (more HP) than a stock 660, but did they size it down any?


I failed to weigh it before fueling it up. I have no wood worthy of this saw. I'm going to have to see what I can do about that.


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## lone wolf

blsnelling said:


> They do seem to have some kind of groove. I figured that was to aid break-in. No?


Maybe to hold oil to keep it lubed.


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## CR500

Finally a thread I'm super pumped for.... I like those rings!!!!


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## MustangMike

Interesting, no muffler baffle like a 660 or 461.


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## blsnelling

MustangMike said:


> Interesting, no muffler baffle like a 660 or 461.


No baffle and a BIG opening, just like the 066 used to have.


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## redbull660

how big is the exhaust port? can u measure? please.


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## stihlaficionado

7 pulls to get it to pop? yikes


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## Deleted member 83629

it looks like a 261 but better.


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## stihlaficionado

jakewells said:


> it looks like a 261 but better.


Don't know if you can ever beat the looks of a 261


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## LowVolt




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## Gypo Logger

Looks like it's Stihl's best quality stuff. I noticed they borrowed Huskys cyl. to forehandle vib dampening spring. Great pics Brad!


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## Jason280

Great write-up!


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## Mastermind

Nice looking saw. Is that a new model?


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## RedneckChainsawRepair

Wasnt expecting that windowed piston and a G cylinder. To cool. Thanks for sharing.


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## tlandrum

looks kinda chincy to me


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## Dennis Cahoon

Looks better than that husky stuck in your butt......Hahahahahaha!


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## tlandrum

go to your basket dennis Hahahahaha!


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## jughead500

I was looking at the last 660 at the dealer the other day and was kind of tempted to whoop out the yard card.Going to be even harder when the 661 hits the shelf.


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## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> 7 pulls to get it to pop? yikes


Brand new, never fueled, so it had to pull fuel into the filter, fuel lines, and carb.


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## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Nice looking saw. Is that a new model?


Yes. It's a Stihlvarna


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## blsnelling

redbull660 said:


> how big is the exhaust port? can u measure? please.


Width? Height? What are you looking for?


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## Four Paws

blsnelling said:


> Width? Height? What are you looking for?



Probably cross-sectional area...

Just guessing though.


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## Stihlman441

opcorn:


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## wigglesworth

Please don't do a pop up.....


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## Mastermind

LMAO.


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## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> Please don't do a pop up.....


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## Mastermind

Well.......in my humble opinion, the exhaust really needs to come down to 100 degrees.

But what do I know?


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## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> Please don't do a pop up.....


Are you just repeating what your ........................nevermind


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## SCHallenger

opcorn:


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## ckelp

Mastermind said:


> Well.......in my humble opinion, the exhaust really needs to come down to 100 degrees.
> 
> But what do I know?


an't you just a hack with a grinder? that you stole from only dentist in town


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## Spawn

I've owned ten or better new C-M's and they all popped and started idling on less than three pulls. The only one that didn't do it from then on looked like the one with score marks in the bore similar to the one shown here. That MS441 went back to the distributor in Missouri as the dealers could not work on them yet then. Score marks under that smoked cylinder looked just like the glaze marks shown on this fresh MS661.


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## blsnelling

There is no way that a saw can pull fuel all the way from the tank through dry filter, lines, and carb in three pulls. This has nothing to do with MTronic.


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## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> Are you just repeating what your ........................nevermind


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## Spawn

blsnelling said:


> There is no way that a saw can pull fuel all the way from the tank through dry filter, lines, and carb in three pulls. This has nothing to do with MTronic.



Maybe if your tank vent is screwed. That don't explain the lean condition you are experiencing. All my 10-12 M-Tronic saws fired up flawlessly: six of them on one pull in July weather. Don't tell me there's no way. You got a saw there to be proud of, but you better look at them score marks boss.


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## blsnelling

Spawn said:


> 10-12 saws all flawless six of them on one pull in July weather. Don't tell me there's no way. You got a saw there to be proud of, but you better look at them score marks.


Are you saying that your saws had never been fired from the dealer, never had fuel in them, and they started on the first pull. That's all I'm contesting. I will surely inspect this cylinder closely.


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## Derrick Sawyer

Looks like cross-hatching for a better seating but anyway, great up close pics, me and my 2 year old are enjoying this. So about 25 year later, RIP to the 1122 series on an amazing run starting with the 064. Might have been stated before, but based off you 56mm bore, then that would be 37 stroke (if 91.1 cc), so went away from 54/40 and closer to what I believe the 056 mag and 394/395xp that are 56/38 (93.6cc).


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## tacomatrd98

Spawn said:


> Maybe if your tank vent is screwed. That don't explain the lean condition you are experiencing. All my 10-12 M-Tronic saws fired up flawlessly: six of them on one pull in July weather. Don't tell me there's no way. You got a saw there to be proud of, but you better look at them score marks boss.



All I see is cross hatch with traces of the skirt. give it a few million more oscillations and those score marks will be nice shiny porting guidlines.


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## Spawn

blsnelling said:


> Are you saying that your saws had never been fired from the dealer, never had fuel in them, and they started on the first pull. That's all I'm contesting. I will surely inspect this cylinder closely.



I only take delivery NIB period. Dry as a bone but you know they get fired at the factory. No the dealer doesn't tune my saws in fact I tune theirs. This isn't a contest, friend we all can learn from each other's experiences. That shiny nikasil could just be reflection from your flash through the opposite port, but that's what the early 441 I had that burned a P&C in the first five hours looked like just like yours.

Did you do the bar off calibration?


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## Spawn

tacomatrd98 said:


> All I see is cross hatch with traces of the skirt. give it a few million for oscillations and those score marks will be nice shiny porting guidlines.



Could be, tacomatard98, let's hope. I'm a Stihl fan. lol


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## Dennis Cahoon

Hey Brad!.....could you take a picture like this one, looking like a real logger with your new 661 for my album.....Thanks!


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## tacomatrd98

Spawn said:


> I only take delivery NIB period. Dry as a bone but you know they get fired at the factory. No the dealer doesn't tune my saws in fact I tune theirs. This isn't a contest, friend we all can learn from each other's experiences. That shiny nikasil could just be reflection from your flash through the opposite port, but that's what the early 441 I had that burned a P&C in the first five hours looked like just like yours.



I'm not saying it is impossible, but I call BS. A bone dry saw will not pop on the first pull let alone idle. I have probably bought more NIB saws than most people who don't do this for a living or own a dealer and I would consider 7 pulls perfectly normal. Just picked up a new 441cm today in fact and it was closer to 10 till it was running. Maybe I should take it back...I guess it's gonna blow up on me now.


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## Spawn

Sounds good sugarbush. Sweet deal.


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## LowVolt

And what was the out the door price???


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## redfin

I know pictures can be decieving but the roof of the intake looks a lot more squared off than the floor?


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## LumberJack1940

redbull660 said:


> needs a wrap handle. I'm just sayin!


check out my 661 thread, I posted pics of it wrapped with a wide clutch cover and sweet looking spikes


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## Chris-PA

Cool pictures Brad!


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## blsnelling

Spawn said:


> I only take delivery NIB period. Dry as a bone but you know they get fired at the factory. No the dealer doesn't tune my saws in fact I tune theirs. This isn't a contest, friend we all can learn from each other's experiences. That shiny nikasil could just be reflection from your flash through the opposite port, but that's what the early 441 I had that burned a P&C in the first five hours looked like just like yours.
> 
> Did you do the bar off calibration?


I just put it back together. I did not have the carb off, so the lines were still full of fuel. It started and idled on the first pull. Macro photography is not kind. They make things look MUCH worse than they are to the naked eye. Both the piston and cylinder look perfect in person. As mentioned above, it is cross hatching that is "wearing in". Both the P&C are perfectly smooth and defect free. I'll keep an eye on it though. It's back together bone stock for it's maiden voyage


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## blsnelling

LumberJack1940 said:


> check out my 661 thread, I posted pics of it wrapped with a wide clutch cover and sweet looking spikes


Those spikes are awesome! I'm not a fan of full wraps. If I keep this saw, it will be used for stumping on occasion. The dual dawgs and roller chain catcher I love though.


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## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> And what was the out the door price???


I bought it with a 36" B&C. $1,279 with 6.75% tax. I will not be keeping a 36" bar on it though. It's still too tip heavy even with the ES Light bar on it. I'll have to pick up a 32" ES Light, or pull the one from my 064. I guess that's what we get for it not being a cinder block!


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## blsnelling

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Hey Brad!.....could you talk a picture like this one, looking like a real logger with your new 661 for my album.....Thanks!


Only for you Dennis


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## Full Chisel

Man, that is one nice looking saw. Stihl is really putting some effort into the aesthetic design of the new series, they just LOOK fast.

Have fun building that baby! I expect good things.


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## CR888

Cool thread Bradley....lf for whatever reason you had to make a choice between owning a 390xp vs ms661 which would you rather own? l always trust Brad's opinion of a saw to be based on the saws merits rather than badge. lts great to see Stihl has finally taken that dreadfully outdated 660 off the shelf and replaced it with a saw full of the latest and greatest. Not that the 660 was a 'bad' saw quite the opposite actually thats why they ran with it for 30+ odd years but with rubber av no mtronic, no strato to beat the epa's regs the 660 was doomed to be a distant memory. This 661 looks like a 90cc ms261....which is good. On a side note l like saws and have a few of them & the only one l have owned/ran that starts first pull is a 23cc TH Makita(echo) that has a primer bulb. lf this saw heads ends up in the same place as the tripple nickel...shoot me a pm.


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## blsnelling

CR888 said:


> Cool thread Bradley....lf for whatever reason you had to make a choice between owning a 390xp vs ms661 which would you rather own? l always trust Brad's opinion of a saw to be based on the saws merits rather than badge. lts great to see Stihl has finally taken that dreadfully outdated 660 off the shelf and replaced it with a saw full of the latest and greatest. Not that the 660 was a 'bad' saw quite the opposite actually thats why they ran with it for 30+ odd years but with rubber av no mtronic, no strato to beat the epa's regs the 660 was doomed to be a distant memory. This 661 looks like a 90cc ms261....which is good. On a side note l like saws and have a few of them & the only one l have owned/ran that starts first pull is a 23cc TH Makita(echo) that has a primer bulb. lf this saw heads ends up in the same place as the tripple nickel...shoot me a pm.


Although a Stihl guy at heart, I SERIOUSLY like my 390XP. I'm actually hoping this will replace the 395XP. That's a pretty tall order. In order to do that, it's going to have to make some serious stumping power. I will certainly call it like I see it. It looks like I've got some big wood lined up to try it out in.


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## Deleted member 83629

the nice thing about m tronic is you can run pump gas up with up to 25% ethanol.
i hope the saw performs good for you brad good luck.


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## president

why did they return to metal flywheel?and are the specs (powerband ,and output better that an 066mag?)


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## blsnelling

LumberJack1940 said:


> check out my 661 thread, I posted pics of it wrapped with a wide clutch cover and sweet looking spikes


PNs on those spikes are 1144 664 0502 and 1144 664 0503.


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## thechainsawguy

I'd like to hear how you like it compared to the Husky 390 when your done with it, as that is the main competitor, also compared to the old MS660. 

Dave


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## blsnelling

So I'm studying the IPL and find that there a standard carbed MS661, not a MS661C. Where is this saw available? Just curious as I'd not heard of it before. Another point of interest, I see no HO oiler option. Hopefully, that means it oils very well.


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## thechainsawguy

blsnelling said:


> So I'm studying the IPL and find that there a standard carbed MS661, not a MS661C. Where is this saw available? Just curious as I'd not heard of it before. Another point of interest, I see no HO oiler option. Hopefully, that means it oils very well.



Stihl mechanic said that carb is available in Europe...would be nice to try one.

Dave.


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## dwraisor

blsnelling said:


> PNs on those spikes are 1144 664 0502 and 1144 664 0503.



I was just about to ask that... 

Does the bolt spacing look to be the same as the 660 441 etc?

I likey them dawgs.

dw


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## Saw Dr.

Spawn said:


> I only take delivery NIB period. Dry as a bone but you know they get fired at the factory. No the dealer doesn't tune my saws in fact I tune theirs. This isn't a contest, friend we all can learn from each other's experiences. That shiny nikasil could just be reflection from your flash through the opposite port, but that's what the early 441 I had that burned a P&C in the first five hours looked like just like yours.
> 
> Did you do the bar off calibration?


You tune the saws for your Stihl dealer? 


Right


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## hseII

thechainsawguy said:


> Stihl mechanic said that carb is available in Europe...would be nice to try one.
> 
> Dave.


Moobs, ^^^^^^ 
That's the one I want.


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## hseII

Saw Dr. said:


> You tune the saws for your Stihl dealer?
> 
> 
> Right


You Do, Why Not?


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## blsnelling

hseII said:


> Moobs, ^^^^^^
> That's the one I want.


It looks like the only difference is the carb, needle access grommet, and coil.


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## blsnelling




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## blsnelling

I hope to sink this bad boy into some of these shortly. Unfortunately, it won't be tomorrow


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## Stihlman441

blsnelling said:


>


 
And they reccon the 441 was a fat bottom girl ?.
Have a look at the size differance.
The 661 is lean and trim.


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## porsche965

Those logs will work 

I run a 28 lite bar on my 661 and use it only on big wood cutting both sides. The oiler to me is stingy. This is a half wrap. World wide have not seen a full wrap but have one on order at my Dealer.

It handles very nice with the 28" lite bar and so far not one problem with about 10-12 tanks through it so far. Compared to the 660 the smoothness covers up the actual speed she really has. Hot or cold weather or fuel mix seems to make no difference. It just cuts the same every time. A joy to run for a novice like me. 

Oh, fuel mileage is quite a bit better than the 660 too. As advertised and expected.


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## porsche965

The 661 does feel like a Jenny Craiged 660. Much better!


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## Deleted member 83629

So if this saw is great out of the box as is would it be faster than a 390xp when it is ported?


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## porsche965

I think we are about to find out after Thanksgiving!


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## whitedogone

blsnelling said:


>


 
Nikko will be right along to tell us how much better handling and far superior in all respects those huskies are.


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## bennn*e

blsnelling said:


> So I'm studying the IPL and find that there a standard carbed MS661, not a MS661C. Where is this saw available? Just curious as I'd not heard of it before. Another point of interest, I see no HO oiler option. Hopefully, that means it oils very well.


If your looking at the ipl on mediacat check out the tech information tab. It has information on the oil pump. It has a standard range of operation and if higher flow is required a limiting pin can be punch up into the oil pump and the screw can then be turned further clockwise to increase the flow further. Once the pin is punched in that's it it's in there


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## sgrizz

I wish I had a reason to buy a 661 but I don't have wood big enough to use it to its full potential .
Looking forward to the progress of this saw. thanks brad


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## Spawn

Saw Dr. said:


> You tune the saws for your Stihl dealer?



I sure do. My brother in law is sales manager and his brother in law owns the store.


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## Derrick Sawyer

Only site I see the regular and M-tronic listed is the Stihl Russia site, here is the link, they also have the 440 and 660. Anyone planning to have Thanksgiving in Moscow?

http://www.stihl.ru/Продукция-STIHL...Бензомоторные-пилы-для-лесного-хозяйства.aspx


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## mdavlee

Hurry up and get videos Brad. I'm zure the neighbors will like to hear saws run today


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## komatsuvarna

The 661 is a good looking saw for sure! Id be interested to see how they compare to a 390xp, stock and ported...... but mainly ported.


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## epicklein22

This saw has me intrigued. Probably wouldn't buy one till after the "bugs" are worked out, but maybe I'll have a breakdown after tax season and bite the bullet. I'm thinking about going with a heated handle version, are those out yet? 

I bought my 562xp when they first came out and it was pretty much trouble free from the box, but did have the slight bog off idle. I hope the 661 experiences no hiccups the second time around. Till then, I'll keep on using the 064 I built.


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## CR500

Anyone know it we can get a heated wrap handle in the US????

Kind of disappointed in the oil pump being one for both models.

Sent from my non internal combustion device.


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## SAWMIKAZE

If the pump is adequate i think its a good thing..then guys that dont like wraps but need the oil output for stumpimg and long bars dont have to do any swapping.


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## No Regerts

When is it available in Alabama?


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## Mastermind

No popups.


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## whitedogone

What 'bout a one ring popup....that should work


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## SAWMIKAZE

I woke up with a pop-up this morning...i had to piss bad.


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## redoakneck

Cool!!!!


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## ttyR2

It's hard for me to get past the scab that passes for an air cleaner cover on the Husky's.


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## SawTroll

whitedogone said:


> Nikko will be right along to tell us how much better handling and far superior in all respects those huskies are.


I don't know anything about that in this case!


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## porsche965

Hi Nikko. This has to be a first  !


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## SawTroll

porsche965 said:


> Hi Nikko. This has to be a first  !



 Not really - even though it may look that way to some....


One thing I wonder about is where the air intake is on this saw, as I see no sign of it coming from the fan housing?


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## porsche965

I'm not home to double check but I believe it is at the bottom of the air box. There are louvers there.


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## wde_1978

Nice saw !


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## Stihlofadeal64

pioneerguy600 said:


> opcorn:


Hey hand me some of that, I'm studying over this too...


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## hori

just gotta say as long time lurker who rarely posts I love all the tear down pics , discussions and mods that members go out of there way to take pics and vids and document for everyone to see.
great job


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## walexa07

Subscribed!!!!


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## tacomatrd98

blsnelling said:


>



Anybody know why Stihl decides to stop the handlebar grip about an inch or more before they should on the side. This pic shows it clearly. I know it's not a huge deal but I find it annoying when half your hand is on bare bar and half is on the grip when you have it on it's side. bean counters i suppose.


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## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> I just put it back together. I did not have the carb off, so the lines were still full of fuel. It started and idled on the first pull. Macro photography is not kind. They make things look MUCH worse than they are to the naked eye. Both the piston and cylinder look perfect in person. As mentioned above, it is cross hatching that is "wearing in". Both the P&C are perfectly smooth and defect free. I'll keep an eye on it though. It's back together bone stock for it's maiden voyage


Brad, did you get a chance to put a tach on it at WOT?


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## blsnelling

Ron660 said:


> Brad, did you get a chance to put a tach on it at WOT?


Being MTronic, it's going to be rev limited.


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## big t double

I think You also have to have a tach that can properly read systems with dual magnet flywheels


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## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> Being MTronic, it's going to be rev limited.


I was wondering if it was in the 13K range??


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## blsnelling

Ron660 said:


> I was wondering if it was in the 13K range??


I'll try to remember to put my tach on it.


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## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> I'll try to remember to put my tach on it.


Thanks....I'd like to know. It sounded plenty rich on the video.


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## MustangMike

So that just leaves the 880 and 461 as the only pro saws w/o M-Tronic. If they follow the design of the 661, they should not be too far off, then perhaps a slimmer/lighter 441 ...

Also will be interesting to see what the 572 Husky is like.


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## Ron660

MustangMike said:


> So that just leaves the 880 and 461 as the only pro saws w/o M-Tronic. If they follow the design of the 661, they should not be too far off, then perhaps a slimmer/lighter 441 ...
> 
> Also will be interesting to see what the 572 Husky is like.


Mike, I spoke with a Stihl Rep. several months ago and he stated there were no plans for mtronics on the 461. That could change but that was the latest I was told.


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## tacomatrd98

I really don't see Stihl Mtronic-ing the 461. It seems to be their saw for the anti-tech crowd, but you never know. I personally would love to see both versions available here, then one could choose the level of tech they are personally comfortable with.


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## AKDoug

Ron660 said:


> Mike, I spoke with a Stihl Rep. several months ago and he stated there were no plans for mtronics on the 461. That could change but that was the latest I was told.


The replacement 461 class saw is in the works. Might be a couple years, though. The replacement will be M-Tronic.


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## wigglesworth

AKDoug said:


> The replacement 461 class saw is in the works. Might be a couple years, though. The replacement will be M-Tronic.



Silliness...

I'll be staying old school till I run outta parts saws, or somebody gives me an M-tronic....


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## Mastermind

wigglesworth said:


> ......or somebody gives me an M-tronic....



Don't hold your breath.


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## tacomatrd98

Granted I am wearing creamsickle goggles while I'm drooling over this thread again but, this saw looks to be a really nice, dare I say perfect blend of heritage/old school design and new tech. This thing looks like a 660 and a 390xp made a baby. Kinda like a 3 series husky but with Stihl's quality touches. I can't wait to get my paws on one as I'm really digging this new platform.


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## Mastermind




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## AKDoug

wigglesworth said:


> Silliness...
> 
> I'll be staying old school till I run outta parts saws, or somebody gives me an M-tronic....


 It might be silly, but the upgraded top end on the 461 vs. the 460/046 was simply a stop gap for emissions reasons. The rest of the saw is 20 year old technology...essentially the same age as the 066.


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## Mastermind

Sorta like the 372XT.......only a hell of a lot better.


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## hseII

Derrick Sawyer said:


> Only site I see the regular and M-tronic listed is the Stihl Russia site, here is the link, they also have the 440 and 660. Anyone planning to have Thanksgiving in Moscow?
> 
> http://www.stihl.ru/Продукция-STIHL...Бензомоторные-пилы-для-лесного-хозяйства.aspx


Nit.
1 was enough.

Took 3 days to get over it


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## wigglesworth

AKDoug said:


> It might be silly, but the upgraded top end on the 461 vs. the 460/046 was simply a stop gap for emissions reasons. The rest of the saw is 20 year old technology...essentially the same age as the 066.



Which is why im against em. None of em made today have the wow factor of a 288xp, or early 064/066 to me. I'd bet that all the saws in North America don't put out the emmissions that one old kenworth makes in the same time frame...

And.... I can make the old saws run. I don't have to buy a carb for a brand new saw cause I can't tune it, and hope the new carb works... Bologna!!


----------



## Mastermind

None of them "wow" me anymore.....old or new....ported or stock.


----------



## Trx250r180

WOW


----------



## wigglesworth

Trx250r180 said:


> WOW



Upside down that spells MOM.

Woulda been funnier that way...


----------



## Full Chisel

Mastermind said:


>




Man, that thing sounds nice, it's got a really deep gurgle at idle.


----------



## bennn*e

AKDoug said:


> The replacement 461 class saw is in the works. Might be a couple years, though. The replacement will be M-Tronic.


It will replace the 441 and 461 and may be mtronic at first but more then likely go straight injection


----------



## porsche965

This thread should become a lot more interesting as the day unfolds


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair

Brad if you get a PHO weight let me know.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Ok Brad,
Its day light, times up we need videos!!


----------



## Buzznutsoz

Nice looking saw Brad, would be very interesting to see a comparison against the MS660 (ported of course ) after you have finished operating on it


----------



## MustangMike

I have no need for a 661 class saw, but the big breakthrough, at least in my mind ... it is the first M-Tronic saw that did not add weight or bulk, and the power did not remain the same, it increased.

Most Autotune saws are also heavier than the saws they replace.

I think that is why the 372 and 461 still don't have modern electronic control.

I'm hopeful that the Tech advances in the 661 will work their way through the entire Stihl lineup.


----------



## porsche965

I have a suspicion that Elf Snelling is busy with his grinder today.

This hopefully will justify many 661s under Christmas trees this year.


----------



## Chris-PA

MustangMike said:


> I have no need for a 661 class saw, but the big breakthrough, at least in my mind ... it is the first M-Tronic saw that did not add weight or bulk, and the power did not remain the same, it increased.
> 
> Most Autotune saws are also heavier than the saws they replace.
> 
> I think that is why the 372 and 461 still don't have modern electronic control.
> 
> I'm hopeful that the Tech advances in the 661 will work their way through the entire Stihl lineup.


How much do you think a microcontroller, a handful of surface mount electronic components, a couple of wires and connectors and a fuel solenoid weigh? The reason it didn't get heavier is because it's still not strato, and for some reason many saws get a a lot heavier when they add that - although I think that is lame as there's no reason it should add much weight. These days they even cheese on the extra air valve so there is no excuse.


----------



## MustangMike

One of the larger Husky saws was made both with and w/o Autotune, and the Autotune version was heavier. (had similar discussion several months ago).

Also, how did they meet emissions w/o Strato, and is this a trend that will continue? I also think the AV system is a lot more compact than the 441 (for it's size).


----------



## bryanr2

komatsuvarna said:


> Ok Brad,
> Its day light, times up we need videos!!



He's recovering....


----------



## Mastermind

Am I the only one that wishes it was a strato saw?


----------



## porsche965

Me too if the weight wouldn't rise much. Torque monsters they are.


----------



## Trx250r180

WOW


----------



## wigglesworth

Trx250r180 said:


> WOW



MOM


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> Am I the only one that wishes it was a strato saw?



Yes


----------



## weimedog

That is a real pretty machine! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Mastermind

wigglesworth said:


> Yes



Yeah.......but what do you know?


----------



## tlandrum

squirrel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## luckydad

Mastermind said:


> Yeah.......but what do you know?


He knows ole Father Time [emoji41][emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris-PA

Mastermind said:


> Am I the only one that wishes it was a strato saw?


No - I like strato. Then again I'm too cheap to ever buy a 661.


----------



## Trx250r180

If I wanted coil springs I would buy a husqvarna



WOW


----------



## xxl

Cant wait to see this in wood hope we get some comparison videos with a 066 a 660


----------



## blsnelling

Sorry to disappoint you guys. We were at mom's until about 1 AM. I started the Christmas thread when I got home. I ended up not going to bed until 4:45AM. I still have two customers saws to port before I get to this one. I'll be doing one this afternoon and one tomorrow. This evening we'll have a house full of company for Anna's 16th birthday. So, yes, I'm crazy busy. I'll get to it as soon as possible...promise!!!


----------



## Mastermind

Enjoy your family Brad. 

The saws can wait.


----------



## blsnelling

Alright, alright. Here's a little teaser  These are the very first cuts this saw has made. Of course, I had to hit something at the bottom of the third cut. Feels pretty good for a brand new saw with a 36" bar, full comp chain nearly buried.


----------



## redbull660

saaaawwwweeet

so far, how would you compare it to a 660 ?


----------



## dwraisor

tlandrum said:


> squirrel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




WHERE?

dw


----------



## SawTroll

MustangMike said:


> I have no need for a 661 class saw, but the big breakthrough, at least in my mind ... it is the first M-Tronic saw that did not add weight or bulk, and the power did not remain the same, it increased.
> 
> Most Autotune saws are also heavier than the saws they replace.
> 
> ......



No, most of them actually are lighter, despite the Autotune: 550xp, 545, 560xp, 562xp (barely), 555, 556, 2253, 2252, 2260, 2258.

Only the 576xpAT (that was the first one) is heavier.


----------



## porsche965

Great! Now try not to think about anything else until you get back to this 661 lol.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> Sorry to disappoint you guys. We were at mom's until about 1 AM. I started the Christmas thread when I got home. I ended up not going to bed until 4:45AM. I still have two customers saws to port before I get to this one. I'll be doing one this afternoon and one tomorrow. This evening we'll have a house full of company for Anna's 16th birthday. So, yes, I'm crazy busy. I'll get to it as soon as possible...promise!!!



Take your time, the "wolves" can wait!


----------



## blsnelling

redbull660 said:


> saaaawwwweeet
> 
> so far, how would you compare it to a 660 ?


I don't run stock saws


----------



## pantelis

blsnelling said:


> There is no way that a saw can pull fuel all the way from the tank through dry filter, lines, and carb in three pulls. This has nothing to do with MTronic.


A saw just out of the box the flagship of stihl and marks on the cylinder? its normal ? what hapend with this marks when the flagship go for work ?


----------



## pantelis

Spawn said:


> Maybe if your tank vent is screwed. That don't explain the lean condition you are experiencing. All my 10-12 M-Tronic saws fired up flawlessly: six of them on one pull in July weather. Don't tell me there's no way. You got a saw there to be proud of, but you better look at them score marks boss.


one picture is a thousands words my friend, 661 mtronic the flagship of the stihl. smell you a new............. recall ? just say


----------



## Derrick Sawyer

Mastermind said:


> None of them "wow" me anymore.....old or new....ported or stock.



Maybe this carbon concept would WOW? Think its a couple lbs lighter than 661C-M, same power but 85cc, fuel injection, titanium in muffler and bar nuts, and has the carbon bar.


----------



## pantelis

Derrick Sawyer said:


> Maybe this carbon concept would WOW? Think its a couple lbs lighter than 661C-M, same power but 85cc, fuel injection, titanium in muffler and bar nuts, and has the carbon bar.



ssssssssssssssssss INJECTION and carbon fuel tank weight like 261. the 661 its another piece of ****. many friends here in europe buy it and now hit theirs heads in the wall.


----------



## president

MustangMike said:


> I have no need for a 661 class saw, but the big breakthrough, at least in my mind ... it is the first M-Tronic saw that did not add weight or bulk, and the power did not remain the same, it increased.
> 
> Most Autotune saws are also heavier than the saws they replace.
> 
> I think that is why the 372 and 461 still don't have modern electronic control.
> 
> I'm hopeful that the Tech advances in the 661 will work their way through the entire Stihl lineup.


does the alloy flywheel weigh the same as the poly, and why back to alloy?


----------



## Full Chisel

I smell some bullsh*t with this comparo, the 661 is stock and tuned awfully rich and the chain is likely dulled but man, this 390xp is a freakin' monster. If you can get gains like these with that Stihl you will have a wicked machine. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.


----------



## tlandrum

that 390xp is a wicked work saw 390xp that I ported last year


----------



## wyk

Worth it for the music alone(But, seriously, who carries their scabbard into the field with them?):


----------



## Full Chisel

tlandrum said:


> that 390xp is a wicked work saw 390xp that I ported last year



Well done, sir...that is a proper job. What did that thing tach at on the edge? Sounds 16k+ easily.


----------



## stankers

Wow!! That 390 is filthy fast.


----------



## tlandrum

that's just a work saw ported for a customer in Germany. I have no idea what he has it tuned to but 390xp's run very well ported.


----------



## Mastermind

Oh yes they do.


----------



## Full Chisel

Clearly!


----------



## MustangMike

SawTroll said:


> No, most of them actually are lighter, despite the Autotune: 550xp, 545, 560xp, 562xp (barely), 555, 556, 2253, 2252, 2260, 2258.
> 
> Only the 576xpAT (that was the first one) is heavier.




So you are saying that a 562 is lighter than a 262?


----------



## blsnelling

redbull660 said:


> I can't stand Husky's ...but even I would like to have that 390xp! damn!


One of the best saws on the market today, and most definitely the best value. I buy them for $875, PHO. I just modded another brand new one today. They are simply monsters. Definitely, one of my 3 favorite saws. This 661 has some tall competition in the 390XP.


----------



## porsche965

And what are your two other favorite saws Brad?


----------



## blsnelling

porsche965 said:


> And what are your two other favorite saws Brad?


You may not want to know, lol. 346XP and 372XP.


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> Enjoy your family Brad.
> 
> The saws can wait.



Family!!??

I thought I was family.


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> You may not want to know, lol. 346XP and 372XP.



Ghey...


----------



## MustangMike

Not for nothing, but these saw weights are starting to look like the sand shifting on the beach. Stihl now lists the 362 C-M at 12.8 lbs (which I do not believe, I think it is 13 lbs) and Husky now lists the 562 at 13 lbs (I also don't believe, I think it is 12.8 lbs).

Then they list the 372 at 13.4 lbs??? Isn't it really closer to 14???

Then Stihl keeps talking about the LOW power to wt ratio of the 661??? Did something get lost in the translation???

If both companies didn't make great saws, I'd start to think they are all on Crack!


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> Alright, alright. Here's a little teaser  These are the very first cuts this saw has made. Of course, I had to hit something at the bottom of the third cut. Feels pretty good for a brand new saw with a 36" bar, full comp chain nearly buried.





Newb. When u grow up u can hit stuff the first cut, like me...


----------



## funky sawman

Question I have is how does the vibration level compair with the 661 and the 390 husky.


----------



## Husqvolmar87

Full Chisel said:


> I smell some bullsh*t with this comparo, the 661 is stock and tuned awfully rich and the chain is likely dulled but man, this 390xp is a freakin' monster. If you can get gains like these with that Stihl you will have a wicked machine. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.




Excuse the smell  Trust me, no bullsh*t. I don't fool myself with my own saws 







Here's the old thread i made. I still own both of them 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms661-c-m-first-impressions.245811/

The 661 was totaly stock, third tank of fuel. Both saws were equipped with brand new RSC chain out of the box and 8pin rim's.
390 is ported (wicked work saw kit) and tuned to 13800 max rpm.

old photos from this comparison










And of course, i did not tune the 661 that rich! The M-Tronic did it 

Today and after about 50 tanks of fuel and a muffler mod, the 661 is still not able to beat the ported 390.


----------



## Spectre468

Quick question, Brad. Did it ship with the 7 or 8 pin rim?


----------



## redbull660

could you post pictures of what you did on the 661 muff mod ? Thanks.

like to see them both again now that they are broken in. With 7pin rims, and using the same bar ..the sugi would probably work on both of them?

In my experience stihl bars are a bit slower than sugi's.


----------



## Husqvolmar87

Nothing special.....

first attempt




second one (with extended deflector and more diameter)










No problem, next week i hope i can make another comparison of these two saws, same bar and chain (28" stihl es light, 7pin)


----------



## Full Chisel

Husqvolmar87 said:


> Excuse the smell  Trust me, no bullsh*t. I don't fool myself with my own saws
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the old thread i made. I still own both of them
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms661-c-m-first-impressions.245811/
> 
> The 661 was totaly stock, third tank of fuel. Both saws were equipped with brand new RSC chain out of the box and 8pin rim's.
> 390 is ported (wicked work saw kit) and tuned to 13800 max rpm.
> 
> old photos from this comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course, i did not tune the 661 that rich! The M-Tronic did it
> 
> Today and after about 50 tanks of fuel and a muffler mod, the 661 is still not able to beat the ported 390.



Glad you stopped in, I figured the owner of that 390xp hung around these parts 

The husky sent that 661 down the road with it's tail between it's legs, but apples to oranges comparison. It's interesting that the 661 bogs with relative ease, the 660 that I ran over the summer had the same tendency which surprised me. I cut up a 16-18" windblown ash with it wearing a 25" bar and it did not like to be pushed on or dawged heavily at all. But it was impressive if you kept it in it's powerband with plenty of torque. 

Anyway, I can't believe that thing is tuned to 14k, it flat out screams! You've got one hell of a machine there.


----------



## redbull660

* *
* Husqvolmar87 *
man! I can't wait! Thanks!


----------



## blsnelling

Spectre468 said:


> Quick question, Brad. Did it ship with the 7 or 8 pin rim?


I'm not aware of any saw that comes with an 8-pin. I've never bought a new 880 or 3120 though.


----------



## Stihl 041S

Thanks brad.


----------



## SawTroll

MustangMike said:


> So you are saying that a 562 is lighter than a 262?



Those are really close, as far as I know.

The the saws the 562xp *actually *replaced were the 362xp and 357xp - and my "barely" was with the 357xp in mind......


----------



## super3

SawTroll said:


> Those are really close, as far as I know.
> 
> The the saws the 562xp *actually *replaced were the 362xp and 357xp




Which were both failed attempts of a 262 replacement.


----------



## KG441c

262xp weight pho double dawgs


----------



## Don Renig

Wow this thread is taking off and leaving the other 661 thread  at the curb. These are the best where they take apart the saw and show you how they work. lol We are so glad Brad Snelling is porting saws again.


----------



## old-cat

blsnelling said:


> Are you saying that your saws had never been fired from the dealer, never had fuel in them, and they started on the first pull. That's all I'm contesting. I will surely inspect this cylinder closely.


When I got my ms461, brand new, I gassed it and pulled the rope and it was running! If I hadn't been so surprised I could have flipped the choke open to keep it going. That happened at least 4 times after, also.


----------



## Don Renig

old-cat said:


> When I got my ms461, brand new, I gassed it and pulled the rope and it was running! If I hadn't been so surprised I could have flipped the choke open to keep it going. That happened at least 4 times after, also.



Me too. All my new Stihls were started on very few pulls and many of the M-Tronics on the first pull fresh out the box. On the older 4-pos switch, it goes like this; choke one pull pop and stutter while I slide the selector to part choke and blip she runs one pull total. On the M-Tronics, one pull and blip she runs. If your saw doesn't do it, you've lost compression, have an air leak, fuel quality issues, caked plug and/or improper spark plug or coil gap, wrong tuning or flywheel timing. The chances of one or many/all of these happening to your saw is more than you think. If you aren't running saws everyday, they might take two pulls to get the impulse primed.

I'm curious to hear one reason why it isn't so?


----------



## Mike from Maine

KG441c said:


> 262xp weight pho double dawgsView attachment 382762


Missing one of the more important parts though.


----------



## KG441c

Mike from Maine said:


> Missing one of the more important parts though.


pull cord will be here today Mike! Lol!!


----------



## Derrick Sawyer

Husqvolmar87 said:


> Nothing special.....
> 
> No problem, next week i hope i can make another comparison of these two saws, same bar and chain (28" stihl es light, 7pin)



That would be great to see in big wood, the 16-18" stuff I bet the same 'wicked' 346, 550, 562s could be almost as fast, go up to 24" stuff 365 372 ported would be close. Too bad you don't have a 'wicked' saw of each flavor to compare and graph the time versus CC versus diameter log relationship. I think you can only compare for what the saw was intended for the 28" plus stuff, but of course that 390xp ported by a pro, nothing stock on the planet could probably not keep up with. Sounds like a top fuel drag car.


----------



## MustangMike

Thanks for the info guys, I did not realize the 361 was lighter than it's counterparts.

I guess the published wt is just useless, I can't believe how both companies just keep changing them.

Back on topic, I don't think anyone would expect a stock 661 to keep up with a ported 390, and I have not seen a stock to stock comparison. It will also be interesting to see a comparison of both saws ported, but I also expect a break in/learning period for the M-Tronic saw to reach full potential.


----------



## KG441c

MustangMike said:


> Thanks for the info guys, I did not realize the 361 was lighter than it's counterparts.
> 
> I guess the published wt is just useless, I can't believe how both companies just keep changing them.
> 
> Back on topic, I don't think anyone would expect a stock 661 to keep up with a ported 390, and I have not seen a stock to stock comparison. It will also be interesting to see a comparison of both saws ported, but I also expect a break in/learning period for the M-Tronic saw to reach full potential.


Agreed. Gonna be tough to beat that ported 390 though


----------



## MustangMike

It would not surprise me if the 661 is stronger in stock form and the 390 in ported, but I'm just guessing, will be nice to see the actual results.


----------



## Husqvolmar87

I would say in stock form, the 661 is stronger. I've made a test with a unported 390 to, some months ago. I think i have a video lying around somewhere on my harddrive. 

But hey, i remember Mastermind did also a comparison in his first 661 build thread between a stock 390 and a stock 661, and the 661 won.


----------



## Mastermind

Yes, and after that same 390 was ported......it won.


----------



## tlandrum

the 390 just wakes up as a moster when ported. they are kinda lame in stock form. the 661 may in deed be the better option when in stock form, but it would take a lot to knock of the 390 after porting is done.


----------



## tlandrum

one thing that should be reassuring to all is that we still have a couple of great choices in that saw class even though the tried and true 660 is gone.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Husqvolmar87 said:


> I would say in stock form, the 661 is stronger. I've made a test with a unported 390 to, some months ago. I think i have a video lying around somewhere on my harddrive.
> 
> But hey, i remember Mastermind did also a comparison in his first 661 build thread between a stock 390 and a stock 661, and the 661 won.



Then its a 660-won-won


----------



## Mike from Maine

tlandrum said:


> one thing that should be reassuring to all is that we still have a couple of great choices in that saw class even though the tried and true 660 is gone.


And there is always the awesome Ms362!!!


----------



## redbull660

yes yes yes thank god we still have the ms250 with Piltz 9 pin racing sprocket and the 32" bar which destroys the 660 all day long.


----------



## Don Renig

Only in big wood.


----------



## SawTroll

super3 said:


> Which were both failed attempts of a 262 replacement.



The 362xp was - the 357xp really was the 254xp replacement.


----------



## sawfun

That still leaves the 395 as top dog in the 88cc - 93cc class. Although the 395 seems more like a 6 cube saw in performance.

Why Stihl doesn't work on the balance issue is beyond me. Combining balance & spring AV would take away the main advantages that the Huskys have.


----------



## blsnelling

Don. Go away. We don't need you here trying to cause trouble.


----------



## Mastermind

The 395 seems like a much larger saw than the 661.....

Think cinder block with handles.


----------



## blsnelling

No way will I sell my 390XP. This saw will have to out do a 395XP for me. I just like the 390 that much. The 395...it's a lumbering beast, but runs like it too. I'd love to see the 661 out do the 395!


----------



## sawfun

Well everybody's gotta be good for something Brad.  .


----------



## SawTroll

MustangMike said:


> Thanks for the info guys, I did not realize the 361 was lighter than it's counterparts.
> 
> .... .



The MS361 weights like the 560xp = one of the lighter 60cc saws. It never was a secret that the MS361 was lighter than the 262xp and 357xp - I pointed it out many times myself!


----------



## blsnelling

The 361 and 357 weighed exactly the same. I have pics somewhere to prove it. But, this is about the 661


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> No way will I sell my 390XP. This saw will have to out do a 395XP for me. I just like the 390 that much. The 395...it's a lumbering beast, but runs like it too. I'd love to see the 661 out do the 395!



If I needed to count on a saw to but food on my table day after day......the 372, or the 390XP would not be at the top of my list of wanted saws. 

But this is about the 661.


----------



## MustangMike

Thanks Troll, I'm still relatively new to the site, and still learning. Plus, the way I got bashed for the wt of the 362 I would never have guessed it was about the same as a beloved 262! I just presumed all the older 60 cc saws were around the wt of the 361, which I knew was lighter than the 362.


----------



## funky sawman

So mastermind, what is you choice for an everyday cutter?


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> The 361 and 357 weighed exactly the same. I have pics somewhere to prove it. ....



If that is the comparison I remember from some years back, it was flawed in several ways.....

I agree we are way off topic though!


----------



## AKDoug

Don Renig said:


> Me too. All my new Stihls were started on very few pulls and many of the M-Tronics on the first pull fresh out the box. On the older 4-pos switch, it goes like this; choke one pull pop and stutter while I slide the selector to part choke and blip she runs one pull total. On the M-Tronics, one pull and blip she runs. If your saw doesn't do it, you've lost compression, have an air leak, fuel quality issues, caked plug and/or improper spark plug or coil gap, wrong tuning or flywheel timing. The chances of one or many/all of these happening to your saw is more than you think. If you aren't running saws everyday, they might take two pulls to get the impulse primed.
> 
> I'm curious to hear one reason why it isn't so?


I don't really want to feed the trolls... but I have sold several dozen M-tronic saws and NOT A SINGLE ONE will start on the first pull EVER. Even my own personal saws, one ported by TreeMonkey, will start on less than three pulls if they've sat for more than a day. I don't know where this magical ******** got started, but M-Tronic is not fuel injection. It's a frigging carburetor with electronically adjusted jetting. It still lives by the same rules every other carb'd saw does. It takes a pull or two to develop the right amount of vacuum to pull fuel from the tank, into the carb, and through the ports to the top of the piston to start the combustion process.


----------



## MustangMike

Point taken guys, sorry!


----------



## Mastermind

funky sawman said:


> So mastermind, what is you choice for an everyday cutter?



MS440, 460 or 660


----------



## SawTroll

MustangMike said:


> Thanks Troll, I'm still relatively new to the site, and still learning. Plus, the way I got bashed for the wt of the 362 I would never have guessed it was about the same as a beloved 262! I just presumed all the older 60 cc saws were around the wt of the 361, which I knew was lighter than the 362.



The MS362 is heavier than both the 562, 357 and 262, while the 361 and 560 are lighter. Nothing new with that.


----------



## Don Renig

AKDoug said:


> I don't really want to feed the trolls... but I have sold several dozen M-tronic saws and NOT A SINGLE ONE will start on the first pull EVER. Even my own personal saws, one ported by TreeMonkey, will start on less than three pulls if they've sat for more than a day. I don't know where this magical ******** got started, but M-Tronic is not fuel injection. It's a frigging carburetor with electronically adjusted jetting. It still lives by the same rules every other carb'd saw does. It takes a pull or two to develop the right amount of vacuum to pull fuel from the tank, into the carb, and through the ports to the top of the piston to start the combustion process.



Far out.


----------



## MustangMike

#$**&$#@

That 661 is a nice looking saw.


----------



## MCW

Subbing...


----------



## Termite

MCW said:


> Subbing...



Subbing for whom?


----------



## 7sleeper

Husqvolmar87 said:


> Excuse the smell
> 
> Here's the old thread i made. I still own both of them
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms661-c-m-first-impressions.245811/
> 
> The 661 was totaly stock, third tank of fuel. Both saws were equipped with brand new RSC chain out of the box and 8pin rim's.
> 390 is ported (wicked work saw kit) and tuned to 13800 max rpm.
> 
> ....
> Today and after about 50 tanks of fuel and a muffler mod, the 661 is still not able to beat the ported 390.


Hallo Stephan,

schon gewartet bis Du auftauchst.

Servus aus'm Süden,

7


----------



## MCW

Termite said:


> Subbing for whom?



For 3,000 other people who couldn't make it


----------



## Husqvolmar87

Like you all know, in the end of 2013, here in germany, stihl has made a delivery stop and recall for the 661 saws in stock by the dealers and for saws who went broken at the customers. 

But that recall did not include already sold and well-running 661’s!

Because not all of these early 661’s had the cylinder-plating and piston problems. (Gilardoni’s fault…) 

But now they has made another, precautionary call-back for saws from 2013 with specific serialnumbers, even if there run well without problems. 

And today, my stihl dealer has changed some parts of my 2013 661 for free (cylinder, piston, gaskets, intakeboot)







i really like the way stihl handles these problems, no compromises, the customer comes first


----------



## MustangMike

I guess there is not doubt now what the problem was. Thanks for that information.


----------



## Mastermind

Stihl FTW. 

Now Husqvarna could save themselves in my eyes by sending me a dozen EL48 carbs.


----------



## splitpost

blsnelling said:


> I'm not aware of any saw that comes with an 8-pin. I've never bought a new 880 or 3120 though.


mine came with a 7 pin in .404


----------



## CR888

splitpost said:


> mine came with a 7 pin in .404


l have an 8 pin .404 sprocket l have yet to run but it is big on size compared to 3/8 8 pin and much bigger than .325 9 pin. l like .404 chain.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Stihl FTW.
> 
> Now Husqvarna could save themselves in my eyes by sending me a dozen EL48 carbs.


I've got one coming for the 2260. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## CR888

As l have a late model tidy ms660 l would like to know a couple of intersting things about swapping over parts......Do l now have an option for captive bar nuts on my 660 by using a 661 clutch cover? Can you fit the spring AV from a 661 to 660? Airfilter? Hollowed spikies swap? lt's Brads job to know ALL of this stuff!!lol


----------



## SawTroll

sawfun said:


> That still leaves the 395 as top dog in the 88cc - 93cc class. Although the 395 seems more like a 6 cube saw in performance.
> 
> Why Stihl doesn't work on the balance issue is beyond me. Combining balance & spring AV would take away the main advantages that the Huskys have.



Some thoughts;

The outboard clutch of the 395, and the extra powerhead weight, obviously gives it an advantage at handling well with heavy bars.

...and it is 93.6cc, so say 88-94. 


Stihl knew this in the days of the 056 mag, but seem to have forgotten.

Of course there are other considerations, and most features have both advantages and disadvantages......


----------



## redbull660

SawTroll said:


> Of course there are other considerations, and most features have both advantages and disadvantages......




sounds like a woman


----------



## blsnelling

CR888 said:


> As l have a late model tidy ms660 l would like to know a couple of intersting things about swapping over parts......Do l now have an option for captive bar nuts on my 660 by using a 661 clutch cover? Can you fit the spring AV from a 661 to 660? Airfilter? Hollowed spikies swap? lt's Brads job to know ALL of this stuff!!lol


The AV is not going to swap. It's a totally different design. I don't know if the clutch cover will fit or not, but I doubt it. I don't have a 660 to try any of this stuff on.


----------



## pantelis

redbull660 said:


> sounds like a woman


the 661 ??


----------



## windthrown

blsnelling said:


> So I'm studying the IPL and find that there a standard carbed MS661, not a MS661C. Where is this saw available? Just curious as I'd not heard of it before. Another point of interest, I see no HO oiler option. Hopefully, that means it oils very well.



In Europe, where they sell for WAY more € dough than in the USA. Oops, I see someone else answered this one...

The newer Stihl smaller saws seem to have anemic oilers compared to older ones. EPA reasons likely. I run canola oil in my saws now, so they can slather all over and its all good, even for the greenies. Stihl says that the 661 has a new oil pump system which enables the oil flow to be increased for longer bars and dusty/dry Oz conditions.


----------



## whitedogone

Sup, Scott? Long time no post


----------



## windthrown

CR888 said:


> l have an 8 pin .404 sprocket l have yet to run but it is big on size compared to 3/8 8 pin and much bigger than .325 9 pin. l like .404 chain.



404? Why run that, or even have a woods ported saw? Hell, who even needs a 661?

PILTZ is the tits! I mean, he can run an MS250 HOT SAW with a 32 inch Picco (low profile) bar and racing PS chain! I seen it on the innernet, so it must be true, right?

He says do not be a monkey and then he shows his saws off in his bare feet. Lookey here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PILTZ-Stihl...014241534?pt=US_Chainsaws&hash=item540e2028fe


----------



## windthrown

whitedogone said:


> Sup, Scott? Long time no post



I stihl post here, just not much any more.


----------



## windthrown

Husqvolmar87 said:


> Like you all know, in the end of 2013, here in germany, stihl has made a delivery stop and recall for the 661 saws in stock by the dealers and for saws who went broken at the customers.
> 
> But that recall did not include already sold and well-running 661’s!
> 
> Because not all of these early 661’s had the cylinder-plating and piston problems. (Gilardoni’s fault…)
> 
> But now they has made another, precautionary call-back for saws from 2013 with specific serialnumbers, even if there run well without problems.
> 
> And today, my stihl dealer has changed some parts of my 2013 661 for free (cylinder, piston, gaskets, intakeboot)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i really like the way stihl handles these problems, no compromises, the customer comes first



Good info. Maybe the Canadian AS "experts" will finally shut up about the 661 not having a recall now? Prolly not tho...


----------



## Deleted member 83629

windthrown said:


> Good info. Maybe the Canadian AS "experts" will finally shut up about the 661 not having a recall now? Prolly not tho...


tell them to go play with there beaver


----------



## windthrown

Ha ha ha! I have not read through any PILTZ Ebay posts lately. Moron this (er, I mean 'more on' this):

_Saws do NOT need more horse power they just need someone with the correct parts and knowledge to set them up correctly, a true hot saw is a saw that cuts faster NOT a saw with more horse power. If you want to enter a drag race you should buy lots of horse power, if you want to cut logs with a chainsaw you should buy light weight. _
_thank you_

All this talk here about modding and running large professional chainsaws, we are simply wasting our time!


----------



## big t double

I'm gonna go out on a limb here...but I'm gonna say ol wind thrown has an issue with the piltz guy...I could be way off though....


----------



## Deleted member 83629

the PILTZ ms 261 is crazy fast


----------



## wigglesworth

Did I miss the last decade performance mod yet?


----------



## rich450es

PILTZ is a PUTTS .....lol


----------



## porsche965

My guess is that the 661 would snap the teeth off of the Piltz System. No? 

I'm a traditionalist, no Piltz for me.


----------



## rich450es

if PILTZ puts a 32in bar on a ms250 what the f#$k size bar and chain would he run on the new 661 .....lol


----------



## Joe Kidd

Nice saw. Good luck with it.


----------



## KG441c

Wonder how far Brad is on the porting


----------



## pantelis

MustangMike said:


> I guess there is not doubt now what the problem was. Thanks for that information.


you think that its a tecnical problem ? think much deeper. the stihl recall theirs flagship but noone of the factory come out to say why they recall it.
do you believe that the stihl have problem to spent a few thousand euros just for change some parts of somes 661s just for close the case ? 
do you believe that the stihl dont test the guilardoni parts before put them to theirs flagship ( 661 ) ??.
do you believe that the stihl dont know how many 660 have out there........................................................... 661 later
do you believe that no big deals with the big dealers? 
Asked the stihl and tell them that you want to open a new shop and you see how the game is playing and who make the rules


----------



## windthrown

big t double said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb here...but I'm gonna say ol wind thrown has an issue with the piltz guy...I could be way off though....



No, your empathy radar is accurate.

Frikkin' moron lives near me, and he is dangerous! Yah just cannot fix stewpid...


----------



## pantelis

rich450es said:


> if PILTZ puts a 32in bar on a ms250 what the f#$k size bar and chain would he run on the new 661 .....lol


A harverster machine bar i think will be ok


----------



## windthrown

pantelis said:


> A harverster machine bar i think will be ok



No no no no... a PILTZ Micro Picco "racing" NK 0.43 B&C 48" bar and chain setup would work wonders with a 12 pin rim sprocket!!! You just need the right bar and chain setup on a saw!


----------



## MCW

windthrown said:


> No no no no... a PILTZ Micro Picco "racing" NK 0.43 B&C 48" bar and chain setup would work wonders with a 12 pin rim sprocket!!! You just need the right bar and chain setup on a saw!



Pfffft? Is a 48" bar all you've got???

Amateurs. You sicken me.


----------



## SawTroll

windthrown said:


> No, your empathy radar is accurate.
> 
> Frikkin' moron lives near me, and he is dangerous! Yah just cannot fix stewpid...




At least *that *stupid!


----------



## Buzznutsoz

This topic seems to have strayed a bit, all I seem to be reading about is huskys, has anyone heard from brad on his progress on the 661 and if he has finished it yet , interested to know the outcome on this saw.


----------



## Deleted member 83629

it will be a hair slower than a 390 ported and it might have fuel cap problem.
can you port flippy caps?


----------



## blsnelling

blsnelling said:


> Sorry to disappoint you guys. We were at mom's until about 1 AM. I started the Christmas thread when I got home. I ended up not going to bed until 4:45AM. I still have two customers saws to port before I get to this one. I'll be doing one this afternoon and one tomorrow. This evening we'll have a house full of company for Anna's 16th birthday. So, yes, I'm crazy busy. I'll get to it as soon as possible...promise!!!


Nothing yet. I ported a 390XP yesterday and a MS362C today. Tonight I took Lisa and Anna out for a steak dinner for Anna's birthday. Tomorrow's Sunday, so won't be any progress until next week.


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> Nothing yet. I ported a 390XP yesterday and a MS362C today. Tonight I took Lisa and Anna out for a steak dinner for Anna's birthday. Tomorrow's Sunday, so won't be any progress until next week.



You've dropped the ball Brad. I remember a man who was porting saws 28 hours a day. How dare you prioritize your family over this thread


----------



## blsnelling

What you talkin about Willis? I done ported 3 saws in one week, lol!


----------



## windthrown

Buzznutsoz said:


> This topic seems to have strayed a bit, all I seem to be reading about is huskys, has anyone heard from brad on his progress on the 661 and if he has finished it yet , interested to know the outcome on this saw.



Husky? I do not think that PILTZ does Husky hot saws. As for poor Brad, he be busy.


----------



## Full Chisel

rich450es said:


> PILTZ is a PUTTS .....lol



Watching this video, two things come to mind. First, the saw ain't gonna last long with that kind of load on it. And second, at 1:30 it's pretty clear this idiot is reckless and doesn't know how to operate a saw in a reasonable manner. I predict that this guy ends up hurting himself badly with one of his "hot saws" sooner than later.


----------



## SawTroll

windthrown said:


> Husky? I do not think that PILTZ does Husky hot saws. As for poor Brad, he be busy.



Uninformed people are more likely to believe fairy tales about Stihl saws, I guess.


----------



## rich450es

at least he has shoes on in this video .....lol


----------



## Magnumitis

blsnelling said:


> Alright, alright. Here's a little teaser  These are the very first cuts this saw has made. Of course, I had to hit something at the bottom of the third cut. Feels pretty good for a brand new saw with a 36" bar, full comp chain nearly buried.



Maybe its me, saw sounds lean at the end of those cuts


----------



## blsnelling

MTronic saws seem to be like that.


----------



## Magnumitis

Interesting, skipped a few pages. That was stock, not ported yet Brad?


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> What you talkin about Willis? I done ported 3 saws in one week, lol!



Yeah......but those had popups. 

Fail.


----------



## Four Paws

Mastermind said:


> Yeah......but those had popups.
> 
> Fail.


 
Peer pressure is a B*tch...


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> If I needed to count on a saw to but food on my table day after day......the 372, or the 390XP would not be at the top of my list of wanted saws



Great to know! I'll let Bitzer, rounder, tramp busheler and the other XPW runners who count on their saws for their livelihood know that they've got it all wrong


----------



## Terry Syd

What kind of wood is that Piltz clown cutting? I think I see ring growth of about 2-3" per year.


----------



## Magnumitis

HuskStihl said:


> Great to know! I'll let Bitzer, rounder, tramp busheler and the other XPW runners who count on their saws for their livelihood know that they've got it all wrong


Azzhole [emoji12]


----------



## Mastermind

Four Paws said:


> Peer pressure is a B*tch...



Someday......he will be assimilated. lol



HuskStihl said:


> Great to know! I'll let Bitzer, rounder, tramp busheler and the other XPW runners who count on their saws for their livelihood know that they've got it all wrong



I merely stated my opinion Jon.......I would not use those saws to make *my* living. They, of course, can do as they please......this is a free country.......for now anyway.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Yeah......but those had popups.
> 
> Fail.


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> I merely stated my opinion Jon.......I would not use those saws to make *my* living. They, of course, can do as they please......this is a free country.......for now anyway.



Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be the proud owner of a 461 or 661, but your opinion carries so much weight (and deservedly so), that when you state that you couldn't have confidence in 372's and 390's to make a living, I feel it's appropriate that newbish type folks understand that there are many who do exactly that. 


Magnumitis said:


> Azzhole [emoji12]


Don't make me go all riff-raff on u'r Arkansas ass! Remember, I'm a pathetic buddy from way back


----------



## Locust Cutter

Full Chisel said:


> Watching this video, two things come to mind. First, the saw ain't gonna last long with that kind of load on it. And second, at 1:30 it's pretty clear this idiot is reckless and doesn't know how to operate a saw in a reasonable manner. I predict that this guy ends up hurting himself badly with one of his "hot saws" sooner than later.



I've seen some dumb things, but... Wow.
I am most curious to see the big wood videos of the stock 661. There may be a 395 in my future simply for the lumbering Ox that it is with thee torque that it has. Otherwise my 372 does just fine, unless someone wants to trade me for a minty MS461. or Mastermoobed 460... If I ever have too much money a ported 390xp may also find it's way to my home as well, but for now my curiosity is where and how does the 661 compare to the 390xp and 395xp? Standing by for videos.


----------



## windthrown

rich450es said:


> at least he has shoes on in this video .....lol



Yah, the short sleeves, no gloves, no eye or ear protection, hopping around a log that size the way he does, I do not want to be in the same county that he is in. But sadly, I am. I drove past his address a few years ago and it is just a house in the suburbs. No pro logging equipment could be seen, no trucks, vans, skidders, chippers or stump grinders or stuff that is more typical up here where I live. He does all his online sales stuff out of his garage. But he claims to be a pro logging company? Phhhhut!


----------



## windthrown

Terry Syd said:


> What kind of wood is that Piltz clown cutting? I think I see ring growth of about 2-3" per year.



Looks like a Pacific silver fir to me. They grow pretty large in this area and there are stands of them that I have felled near where he lives in 5 acre high end estates. They are light weight (when dry) and that is pretty soft wood. I have felled and bucked similar size silver firs with a 440 and noodled them down with a 361 pretty easy. I still have a few cords of that wood left in my stacks here. Those are not 3" growth rings. They are sets of smaller color/tone rings that grew in a series of dry or wet years that are grouped together, and they appear as one ring from a distance.


----------



## No Regerts




----------



## splitpost

No Regerts said:


>


??????????????????????????????????


----------



## Husqvolmar87

Here's the official dealer-instruction by STIHL because of the new precautionary replacement campaign for delivered 661's from 2013.

unfortunately, i can not translate all... (ohh my bad english.....)












but in the core of the matter it says "cylinder, piston, intakeboot and gasket are to be replaced" with a "maximum of obligingness towards the customers".

And they say sorry to the dealers for the inconvienences.

Also you can see the range of the affected serial numbers "177 367 909 to 177 751 744"


----------



## Mike from Maine

blsnelling said:


> Nothing yet. I ported a 390XP yesterday and a MS362C today. .


Are they faster then they were stock this time???


----------



## whitedogone




----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> Nothing yet. I ported a 390XP yesterday and a MS362C today. Tonight I took Lisa and Anna out for a steak dinner for Anna's birthday. Tomorrow's Sunday, so won't be any progress until next week.


Family first for sure!! Lookin foward to it Brad


----------



## No Regerts

Dang does that thing say, "WAR," on it? Like it already. Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## Mastermind

HuskStihl said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be the proud owner of a 461 or 661, but your opinion carries so much weight (and deservedly so), that when you state that you couldn't have confidence in 372's and 390's to make a living, I feel it's appropriate that newbish type folks understand that there are many who do exactly that.
> 
> Don't make me go all riff-raff on u'r Arkansas ass! Remember, I'm a pathetic buddy from way back



It is really just a personal thing. 

The exhaust note from those saw hurts my head. But............

I also have seen a fair amount of Husqvarnas with built in issues from the factory. Folded base gaskets, bad transfers seals, improperly installed intake boots......then there's the dreaded throttle bog in a **** ton of 562XPs. 

After seeing hundreds of saws cross my bench these last few years.......I prefer Stihl for their better build quality. I see far more Stihls with hundreds of hours on them than I do Husqvarnas. 

Maybe I'm just not sampling from a wide enough group.......but I think I am. 





No Regerts said:


>



Go away Brush Ape.


----------



## KG441c

Randy when you say defects would that be actual flaws in the saw itself or mostly quality control issue from people putting them together?


----------



## Mastermind

Assembly issues. 

To Husqvarna's credit........they will replace the saw if a known issue is presented. Like the 550XP transfer seal issue......no worries. Bring it in and they will swap it out. 

If you have a good dealer that knows what is up.


----------



## KG441c

So guess what Im asking is if a person bought say a 390 brand new and sent it to u to be ported and u went through the saw and corrected any issues, would it hold up as well as a Stihl?


----------



## Mastermind

Wiggs did a 372XT for a friend that has a sawmill and a logging crew. 

The saw lasted for two years. That's pretty damn good....but.....

At the end of those two years it needed a crankshaft, and a set of main bearings. 

That same guy has a 10 - 12 year old MS460 that has never been apart. 

You tell me which saw is tougher.


----------



## KG441c

Why do the Huskys bottom ends let go sooner ?


----------



## Mastermind

I have no idea. 

On the XT I think it is because the piston is too heavy, and surpasses the design limits of the crank. 

Running 32:1 does help though. 

I've got a crate full of 390XP carcasses with bad cranks......


----------



## KG441c

Do u think opening the windows and doing alil work on top of the piston for less weight would help ? Without making the piston a full pop up?


----------



## Mastermind

No windows in a XT piston.


----------



## wyk

blsnelling said:


> The 361 and 357 weighed exactly the same. I have pics somewhere to prove it. But, this is about the 661


----------



## KG441c

No lighter weight options for pistons? Did the weight thing change from 2 series to 3&5 series? I put the meteor kit in my 262 with the original KS cylinder


----------



## Mastermind

When the went to the XT from the XP......they made it a strato set up. The piston is much larger. 

Remember, the 372 started out as a 362.......same crank all the way up to this monster sized strato piston.


----------



## LowVolt

But they are so heavy and bulky an behind the times.............


----------



## KG441c

Alil shaky for me to buy a 1000$ + saw and have it ported knowing its for a slight peformance advantage and less dependable? Seems one would fair better to invest in a 660 and work with it with confidence and peace of mind


----------



## KG441c

Mastermind said:


> When the went to the XT from the XP......they made it a strato set up. The piston is much larger.
> 
> Remember, the 372 started out as a 362.......same crank all the way up to this monster sized strato piston.


Now thats an engineering flaw right there?


----------



## LowVolt

KG441c said:


> Now thats an engineering flaw right there?


Ever see the intake setup on a 357xp?


----------



## KG441c

I havent low volt. Ive only rebuilt the 2 series Husky and just acquired a 288xp that I will be goin through here before long. Worked on a few smaller homeowner huskies. A few others like a 65 and a 66


----------



## Mike from Maine

Or the 55


----------



## MustangMike

Not to derail, but at 13 lb my 362 is looking less & less obese every day! The Husky website now even lists the 562 at 13 lbs!

I starting to think the 362 just had "imaginary" bulk.


----------



## HuskStihl

The loggers are a lil different tho as many run stock saws and burn thru a saw (or two) a year. 12 years on a primary falling saw is amazing, and worthy of praise. 


KG441c said:


> Alil shaky for me to buy a 1000$ + saw and have it ported knowing its for a slight peformance advantage and less dependable? Seems one would fair better to invest in a 660 and work with it with confidence and peace of mind


A new ported 390/2188 is considerably less expensive than a stock 661. A new ported 395 is the same price as the 661. Stihls likely have more "overbuild" than husky, but you have to pay to play. FWIW most of us would not have the time to ever burn up a saws bottom end


----------



## SCHallenger

MustangMike said:


> Not to derail, but at 13 lb my 362 is looking less & less obese every day! The Husky website now even lists the 562 at 13 lbs!
> 
> I starting to think the 362 just had "imaginary" bulk.



My 562 weighs exactly 13lbs. My MS261 (regular carb) weighs 12lbs. The MS362 (regular carb) that I handled at the Michigan GTG felt a little heavier than my 562, but that was only an impression. With all the variables (B&C, fluids, etc.) added & no weighing done, that impression could well be wrong. When weights are that close, it seems to me that balance is a far more important factor.
Sorry for continuing the derail. I'll end it there.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

MustangMike said:


> Not to derail, but at 13 lb my 362 is looking less & less obese every day! The Husky website now even lists the 562 at 13 lbs!
> 
> I starting to think the 362 just had "imaginary" bulk.



 Mike you really gotta let go of this weight thing with 60cc saws..it was more about how the saw was layed out and how it handled , not so much what it weighed


----------



## Chris-PA

Lol - my 62cc Chinese G621 clone weighs less than either. It doesn't matter either.


----------



## No Regerts

Chris-PA said:


> Lol - my 62cc Chinese G621 clone weighs less than either.



Lol-that's because it is junk.


----------



## Chris-PA

No Regerts said:


> Lol-that's because it is junk.


Oh yeah Brush Ape - how many tanks did you predict it would take before it blew up? Before you deleted all those posts that is? It still runs just fine.


----------



## No Regerts

Chris-PA said:


> Oh yeah Brush Ape - how many tanks did you predict it would take before it blew up? Before you deleted all those posts that is? It still runs just fine.



Fine piece of work Chris. Let me know when it is ready for the fencepost.


----------



## rich450es

is it only me or does this brush ape pup sound and act like a azzhole ....bring it on computer tough guy ....lol


----------



## MustangMike

FYI, I was not the one that made it the central issue, I was the one who was told he was wrong, over and over and over again, so forgive me if I point this stuff out. Other than that, I will more than happy to drop it.


----------



## Mastermind

How many IP addresses do you have Brush Ape?


----------



## blsnelling

As far as I'm concerned, this is all much ado about nothing. Both Husky and Stihl build fantastic saws. If that were not the case, you would not see so many of both out killing tree in the hands of professionals every day. Every brand has had their issues from time to time. Which one is better? Well, it depends on who you talk to. Me? I don't really care. A good saw is a good saw, regardless of the color. I have a bias towards performance, so most of my work saws are Husky. When I got into saws, everything was Stihl. As I experienced more saws, I couldn't deny the way the Huskies ran. Now, most all of my saws are Husky. Add to that that they cost less than Stihl, and it's easy to recommend them.

Now, this thread is about the MS661. Will it be the most powerful saw in it's class? Who knows. Regardless of that, I'm sure it's a great saw. I'm here simply to see what I can get out of it and to share that with the forum. Whether or not I decide that it has a permanent place in my arsenal, will not change the fact that it's a great saw.


----------



## LowVolt

Billions and billions served.


----------



## Mastermind

So there is no possible way to be rid of you is there?


----------



## Mastermind

I'll try the ignore button then. 

You are a ****ed up son of a *****.


----------



## blsnelling

Brush Ape. You're not doing me any favors here. We don't need the likes of you stirring up crap.


----------



## No Regerts

Shouldn't be any crap to stir up if you knew how to act like adults. I do what I do for the people. That included you when you did need someone to stand up.

I was also your 9000th 'like' lol.


----------



## blsnelling

No Regerts said:


> Shouldn't be any crap to stir up if you knew how to act like adults. I do what I do for the people. That included you when you did need someone to stand up.


Standing up for me does not include trying to cause trouble for Randy. We need to put that crap behind us.


----------



## No Regerts

OK.


----------



## Mastermind

Hell he can have this place for all I give a ****. If he's gonna be here day after day I'm gone. 

You win Brush Ape. Later.


----------



## hseII

Full Chisel said:


> Watching this video, two things come to mind. First, the saw ain't gonna last long with that kind of load on it. And second, at 1:30 it's pretty clear this idiot is reckless and doesn't know how to operate a saw in a reasonable manner. I predict that this guy ends up hurting himself badly with one of his "hot saws" sooner than later.



Notice the 1106/09 in the pic: he could of at least moved the rescue saw out of the way.


----------



## wyk

http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/.../Baumpflegesägen/243594-1712/MS-201-TC-M.aspx


----------



## No Regerts

Mastermind said:


> Later.



Was we still gonna play chess?


----------



## MustangMike

Randy, don't let the A H ruin it for the rest of us. Just ignore it, he don't matter.


----------



## president

Its just that pesky pres here again ,same question I have 2 066s
poly flywheels ,hoe come a return to alloy


----------



## dwraisor

president said:


> Its just that pesky pres here again ,same question I have 2 066s
> poly flywheels ,hoe come a return to alloy



Good question, probably could have saved an ounce or three of rotating mass... two schools of thought on rotating mass though. Light revs quicker, while heavier is harder to stop (duh). I'd guess it has something to do with keeping the saw from bogging when dawged in (maybe kinda sorta??)

dw


----------



## Milkman31




----------



## treeslayer2003

Mastermind said:


> Hell he can have this place for all I give a ****. If he's gonna be here day after day I'm gone.
> 
> You win Brush Ape. Later.


----------



## LegDeLimber

More flywheel mass contributes to smoother feel when you start the saw.
If any of you guys have ever had the blade loose or off of a typical push mower 
and pulled the recoil and had the rope snatched through your now stinging fingers
Then you know how it works.

It also helps smooth out the idle and improves the odds against it stalling while idling.
But that wont solve any carburetion problems that an engine may have.
And of course it has its price in speed of rpm changes.

When I carved out a couple of small places on the back my poulan 2900, 
it roughened the idle a slight bit and made a noticeable change in the "commitment"
You need to give when you pull the rope.
It will sometimes spit back and snatch the rope away if you pull it a bit to lackadaisically 
But do not confuse faster pulling for jerking on it, those are two very different actions.


----------



## windthrown

hseII said:


> Notice the 1106/09 in the pic: he could of at least moved the rescue saw out of the way.



He has had several overpriced 090 saws for sale on Ebay. He has a PHO 090 listed now for $2,500. For a 'low hour' saw, it has a lot of grime in it and missing paint on the handle. He also sells new MS880s with 25 inch bars and 10 pin rims. He is an odd contradiction, selling both Stihl MS170 and MS880 as 'hot saws'. Dunno why he does not sell the 880/090s with his Hot Saw Picco B&C setups. Maybe that was what he was testing in the video. They would be Uber PILTZ Extreme Hot Saws... built by the Uber Azzhole himself. Oh, sorry, that is the other Uber Azzhole... the Recycled Brush Ape seems to hold that title here.


----------



## sawfun

Well maybe a Piltz mag ll would be a V8 chainsaw running a 20 pin 1/4 full + skip, where there is a cutter every third or fourth link.


----------



## windthrown

sawfun said:


> Well maybe a Piltz mag ll would be a V8 chainsaw running a 20 pin 1/4 full + skip, where there is a cutter every third or fourth link.



Are you referring to this special ultra low profile chain? I am surprised PILTZ has not found NK Picco/low profile...


Photo shamelessly ripped off from a post by Bennn*e


----------



## sawfun

Yes, yes, thats the one. Where did you get it if I may ask? Those are supposed to be ultra secret Stihl competition chains. They keep the RPM up and whats better, will not harm a tree so the huggers are happy as well.


----------



## wigglesworth

HuskStihl said:


> Great to know! I'll let Bitzer, rounder, tramp busheler and the other XPW runners who count on their saws for their livelihood know that they've got it all wrong



I don't depend on my saws for a living. I'm just a goober who cuts firewood. 

That said, I maintain a small fleet for my good friend who owns the local sawmill. 

They bought two stihl 460's in 2002-ish. One got crushed, the other is still running strong, and has never been apart, save for regular maintenance items. 

I dare not say how many huskys they've been thru in the same time frame. 

Somebody might get all butt hurt. Lol. 

But what I will say, is I've seen 4 bottom end failures, on three different models of husky in the last couple of years from the mill. All running the same mix as the ol' 460....


----------



## No Regerts

wigglesworth said:


> Somebody might get all butt hurt. Lol....




Heh heh. Butt Hurt.


----------



## Locust Cutter

Brad, to further derail the thread, how was the dinner with your ladies? I love my saws, but spending time with my babies makes everything else almost irrelevant.


----------



## No Regerts

Husqvarna is like a Bic Lighter. Stihl is more like a Zippo.


----------



## Locust Cutter

Is there a point to this Brush Ape or do you just get off on making ignorant statements?


----------



## pantelis

No Regerts said:


> Husqvarna is like a Bic Lighter. Stihl is more like a Zippo.


no husqvarna is just a lighter


----------



## blsnelling

Locust Cutter said:


> Brad, to further derail the thread, how was the dinner with your ladies? I love my saws, but spending time with my babies makes everything else almost irrelevant.


Anna had her first Filet Mignon  I figured she deserved the best on her 16th birthday!


----------



## z71mike

blsnelling said:


> Anna had her first Filet Mignon  I figured she deserved the best on her 16th birthday!


That looks like Outback!


----------



## Locust Cutter

That's awesome! My daughter is 6 and Son is 5... I'm afraid 16 will occur much sooner than I'm prepared for it to...


----------



## blsnelling

My little girl's all grown up on me!











A bunch of cousins.





My Sweet 16 year old might as well get her first kiss on my terms, from cousins, lol.










Grandparents. I sure did miss my Dad being there!


----------



## HuskStihl

wigglesworth said:


> I don't depend on my saws for a living. I'm just a goober who cuts firewood.
> 
> That said, I maintain a small fleet for my good friend who owns the local sawmill.
> 
> They bought two stihl 460's in 2002-ish. One got crushed, the other is still running strong, and has never been apart, save for regular maintenance items.
> 
> I dare not say how many huskys they've been thru in the same time frame.
> 
> Somebody might get all butt hurt. Lol.
> 
> But what I will say, is I've seen 4 bottom end failures, on three different models of husky in the last couple of years from the mill. All running the same mix as the ol' 460....


That's impressive longevity on that 460 for sure. I personally don't get butt hurt (not even sure exactly what that means) over inanimate objects, and you and Randy are excellent judges of where a saws weaknesses are. I'm just saying that before we all feel we need to get an 046/460 to have any hope of longevity, that there are the rare 372 and 390xpw which hold together just long enough to keep a logger's kids in shoes. 
Some people would also rather spend a day on a 390 over a 660 despite knowing their saw had a less robust lower end. I'm sorry for starting (and continuing ) inter-brand bickering in this fine thread. If the 661 is truly the "390 feel" in a Stihl package, and if I had the $1300 handy, I would love to own one. Luckily, I should be winning a masterminded 661 any day now


----------



## MustangMike

Locust Cutter said:


> That's awesome! My daughter is 6 and Son is 5... I'm afraid 16 will occur much sooner than I'm prepared for it to...



You will blink your eyes and they will be grown, my Grandsons are 5 & 7 ... Granddaughter is a few months old.


----------



## HuskStihl

blsnelling said:


> My little girl's all grown up on me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of cousins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Sweet 16 year old might as well get her first kiss on my terms, from cousins, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grandparents. I sure did miss my Dad being there!


For a fairly weird looking dude, you've managed to create a beautiful family. Glad y'all had a good time!


----------



## MustangMike

Well if I get first pick, I'm taking the 661, but if I get 2nd pick and the Hybrid, I may be just as happy!


----------



## Sierra65

All you need is the Carbon fiber covers and some titanium and you'll have a Concept saw!! shhhh don't tell STIHL! lol


----------



## pantelis

Sierra65 said:


> All you need is the Carbon fiber covers and some titanium and you'll have a Concept saw!! shhhh don't tell STIHL! lol


yes and the carbon handle and the injection technology and the carbon bar and maybe some other piston or cylinder that we dont know until stihl tell us


----------



## windthrown

sawfun said:


> Yes, yes, thats the one. Where did you get it if I may ask? Those are supposed to be ultra secret Stihl competition chains. They keep the RPM up and whats better, will not harm a tree so the huggers are happy as well.



I do not know where Bennn*e got that toothless loop from. He is down under, so maybe he got it from now-AS-banned McBob/OzFlea.


----------



## wigglesworth

HuskStihl said:


> That's impressive longevity on that 460 for sure. I personally don't get butt hurt (not even sure exactly what that means) over inanimate objects, and you and Randy are excellent judges of where a saws weaknesses are. I'm just saying that before we all feel we need to get an 046/460 to have any hope of longevity, that there are the rare 372 and 390xpw which hold together just long enough to keep a logger's kids in shoes.
> Some people would also rather spend a day on a 390 over a 660 despite knowing their saw had a less robust lower end. I'm sorry for starting (and continuing ) inter-brand bickering in this fine thread. If the 661 is truly the "390 feel" in a Stihl package, and if I had the $1300 handy, I would love to own one. Luckily, I should be winning a masterminded 661 any day now



Oh, I'm sure somewhere, somebody that runs 372's has a box full of 460's with blown out cranks. But I've not seen it "personally"...

Everybody's different, and everybody has an opinion, and is entitled to it.


----------



## mdavlee

wigglesworth said:


> Oh, I'm sure somewhere, somebody that runs 372's has a box full of 460's with blown out cranks. But I've not seen it "personally"...
> 
> Everybody's different, and everybody has an opinion, and is entitled to it.


It's boxes of 066s with ruined cases from spun bearings [emoji6] 

I've been able to get more stihl project saws. I don't know if it's because there's more of them out there or the huskies are just better[emoji14]


----------



## dwraisor

wigglesworth said:


> ...Everybody's different, and everybody has an opinion, *and is entitled to it*.




Now Wiggz, don't be pedaling your lies. 


dw


----------



## treesmith

Love my 390xb, I kinda knew when I bought it that it wouldn't last as long as a 660 but I still sold my 660...


----------



## MCW

treesmith said:


> Love my 390xb, I kinda knew when I bought it that it wouldn't last as long as a 660 but I still sold my 660...



Is the 390XB like a 390XP? 
Like you I sold two MS660's and started running a 390XP and 390XPG. As falling saws the 390's handle way better. Obviously 660's have dropped a tree or two in their day but I seriously rate the Huskys for falling.
For a basic firewood saw though I rate the 660's higher. They are just tough and the HD2 filter is an absolute godsend in our dry, dead hardwoods. The stock Stihl spikes are also tough to beat.
As much as I love the 390XP's there is still something special about the 660's. Not sure what it is...

The 661 had me intrigued the second I saw pictures of it and read the specs. It is a very interesting setup compared to the good old 660. Hopefully the M-Tronic improves the fuel economy as without a doubt the 660 is a fuel pig, even when stock.


----------



## CR888

windthrown said:


> I do not know where Bennn*e got that toothless loop from. He is down under, so maybe he got it from now-AS-banned McBob/OzFlea.


HaHa! I have some 'cutterless' chain for my Logwizard and Atom drill attachmen you can get it from Bailey's. However the chain in Beannes pic is l think 'hyper skip' which has a cutter spaced far apart from the next (l guess every 7 or so links). l think its Bobs secret weapon.


----------



## CR888

MCW said:


> Is the 390XB like a 390XP?
> Like you I sold two MS660's and started running a 390XP and 390XPG. As falling saws the 390's handle way better. Obviously 660's have dropped a tree or two in their day but I seriously rate the Huskys for falling.
> For a basic firewood saw though I rate the 660's higher. They are just tough and the HD2 filter is an absolute godsend in our dry, dead hardwoods. The stock Stihl spikes are also tough to beat.
> As much as I love the 390XP's there is still something special about the 660's. Not sure what it is...
> 
> The 661 had me intrigued the second I saw pictures of it and read the specs. It is a very interesting setup compared to the good old 660. Hopefully the M-Tronic improves the fuel economy as without a doubt the 660 is a fuel pig, even when stock.


l just put some Pro Safety Felling spikes on a ms261 and a 660 .... it kinda feels like you loose half the bar on the 261 with 18"b/c but with a 3' b/c on the 660 today they were really nice. The ms261 wants to roll over now like my 550xp so we will see how long these silly big spikes last. The dual 362 spikes/roller catcher were near perfect as far as fit and function goes but the pro safety spikes makes my saw look tough kinda like McBob's tattoo.


----------



## MCW

CR888 said:


> l just put some Pro Safety Felling spikes on a ms261 and a 660 .... it kinda feels like you loose half the bar on the 261 with 18"b/c but with a 3' b/c on the 660 today they were really nice. The ms261 wants to roll over now like my 550xp so we will see how long these silly big spikes last. The dual 362 spikes/roller catcher were near perfect as far as fit and function goes but the pro safety spikes makes my saw look tough kinda like McBob's tattoo.



I have a set of Pro Safety spikes I bought for the 390XP. They lasted one day falling before they were pulled off. It's like that kid who sticks a 5 inch cannon muffler on his stock Honda Civic. More for show than anything else. Apparently they have some merit in thick barked Northern Hemisphere species like Douglas Fir but in smooth barked Australian hardwoods they were an absolute waste of time and actually slowed me down considerably. One thing Stihl does do well is their stock spikes on larger saws - they seem to bite from every angle.


----------



## KG441c

.


CR888 said:


> l just put some Pro Safety Felling spikes on a ms261 and a 660 .... it kinda feels like you loose half the bar on the 261 with 18"b/c but with a 3' b/c on the 660 today they were really nice. The ms261 wants to roll over now like my 550xp so we will see how long these silly big spikes last. The dual 362 spikes/roller catcher were near perfect as far as fit and function goes but the pro safety spikes makes my saw look tough kinda like McBob's tattoo.


ya I tried the big spikes on the 261. Ditch them and get the 362 dual spike set. 441 and up I like the bigger dual dawgs


----------



## blsnelling

MCW said:


> Is the 390XB like a 390XP?
> Like you I sold two MS660's and started running a 390XP and 390XPG. As falling saws the 390's handle way better. Obviously 660's have dropped a tree or two in their day but I seriously rate the Huskys for falling.
> For a basic firewood saw though I rate the 660's higher. They are just tough and the HD2 filter is an absolute godsend in our dry, dead hardwoods. The stock Stihl spikes are also tough to beat.
> As much as I love the 390XP's there is still something special about the 660's. Not sure what it is...
> 
> The 661 had me intrigued the second I saw pictures of it and read the specs. It is a very interesting setup compared to the good old 660. Hopefully the M-Tronic improves the fuel economy as without a doubt the 660 is a fuel pig, even when stock.


How much time do you have on your ported 390? How has durability been?


----------



## KG441c

Man I should never mentioned the Husky/Stihl forbidden question here!!!lol!! Sorry Brad! Any progess on the 661?


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> How much time do you have on your ported 390? How has durability been?



Hi Brad.
Probably around 600-800 hours on the 390XP now and would have dropped close to 8,000 trees plus cut a lot of firewood. Nearly all Australian hardwoods with bars nearly exclusively 24" and 32". The 390XPG I got from you probably had 400 hours on it from me and the new owner also gave it a hiding. Therefore 1000-1200 hours on two saws without a single issue. I had pretty good records from when I was knocking trees over and on one day there with a 32" bar I used around 24 litres of fuel from memory (6.35 US Gallons) with the saw actually running for 9 1/2 hours or thereabouts. Nearly all the trees soaked a 32" bar up with room to spare.
I certainly can't complain about your builds Brad. Over 2500 hours (easily) with not a single mechanical issue. I've sold a few of your saws too and they are all still running although that off it's nut MS660 ended up with a full time tree guy and apparently is getting low on compression after 4 odd years. It's probably gone from 210psi to 185psi Might just need some new rings.


----------



## MCW

On another note guys I received a PM from a member about 8 months ago on the MS661 topic. I'm sure some of you will find it interesting. The ported MS660 he mentions was built by a very respectable builder who doesn't post here much any more. The older members would know him as one of the best work saw builders this site has seen. This is what he sent me with all identifying parts removed...

*I ran one last year for about three months when they were being tested here in the States. We're not supposed to talk about it or publish anything about it...we even had to sign a paper stating that we wouldn't...so you can't quote me directly on anything I say. You can however say that a logger used one and, without mentioning my name, say that he was well pleased with it. Very well pleased.
The saw came to me new with a 36" bar. The only instructions I had from Stihl was to use Stihl Ultra oil at 50:1 and to run the saw like I would any other work saw. They also didn't allow any mods, no fancy mufflers, anything like that. Straight stock. They specifically told me not to baby the saw and not to take any special care of it. I took them at their word and ran the snot out of that thing. They wanted real-world working conditions and they got them.
I had absolutely no problem with the saw. None. It was a little slow to self tune...they told me it would be...especially with major elevation changes during the day. By slow I mean just a second or two...no major delays. It didn't slow down production.
The saw I had was very smooth. Much smoother than a stock 660. I didn't keep any figures on gas consumption but the 661 doesn't gulp the gas like my 660 did. If I had to guess, and a guess is all it is, I'd say the 661 uses twenty percent less gas.
The saw, stock, has power. My main saw is a 660 that ***** woods ported. Again, these are ball park guesses but I'd say the 661 ran almost as well as the ***** 660. Very very close in torque. 
The 661 will out-work a stock 660. There are always stock 660s around and we used them for comparison. We had a few impromptu races in the woods, switched operators, switched chains, everything we could think of to make things even and the 661 would out cut any of the stock 660s that we had. The 661 had a lot of low end torque. I could lean on it...which I don't usually do...and it was hard to bog in our soft woods.
I ran the 661 against only a couple of Huskys...a lightly ported 390, and a heavily ported 395. The 661 was measurably faster than than the 390 but couldn't stay up with the 395.
At the end of the trial period I took the saw back...they wouldn't let me keep it or buy it...talked to the Stihl rep, filled out some forms about what I thought of the saw, and that was it. The saw went back to Germany for teardown and inspection, that's all I know. It was running as well as the day they gave it to me and they seemed almost disappointed that I hadn't found anything wrong with the saw. They were already having problems with them then but they wouldn't say what they were.

I don't know what problems they're having with the saw but the one I ran, and the ones that other guys ran, were flawless. I know of three logging saws and two saws that were used by the Forest Service. We weren't supposed to communicate with each other about the saws but you know how that goes. All the guys that ran the saw liked it and see it as a great replacement for the 660.
I'm first on the list at the saw shop when they are released. LOL...I hope it shows up before I'm too old to use it.
Once again, you can quote me on any of this but don't mention my name. I might get a chance again to demo a new saw and I rather liked the experience.*


----------



## Jet47

I am a logger and have run both Stihl and Husqvarna.
I ran Stihl for a number of years and had only one engine failure, had to replace a piston in my 460. They are one tough and reliable saw.
I have had several Husqvarna failures over the years but they are still my saw of choice. I prefer the throttle response of the Husky and at least to me, they feel better balanced.
This debate over which saw is 'better' is futile, it all comes down to personal choice. Both brands have there strong points.


----------



## Hinerman

HuskStihl said:


> For a fairly weird looking dude, you've managed to create a beautiful family. Glad y'all had a good time!


 
Your sense of humor is top shelf. I would tell you to keep it up but your track record tells me I have nothing to worry about. Thanks for all the laughs.

If Brad would get this 661 ported maybe be all of the arguing would stop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on second thought, this is AS, arguing (or "creative discussion" as my 17 yr old daughter calls it) will never cease.


----------



## KG441c

Competition and creative discussion pushes a person farther ahead in the search for ultimate performance (different performance factors for different folks) in saws?


----------



## HuskStihl

Hinerman said:


> Your sense of humor is top shelf. I would tell you to keep it up but your track record tells me I have nothing to worry about. Thanks for all the laughs.


Thank you very much for the compliment, but saying Brad is kinda weird looking to have produced such a beautiful child really wasn't a joke. 

My kids are very attractive and athletic, but that really comes as no surprise. I mean, have you seen my avatar pic? I'm dead sexy! (that was a joke)


----------



## Cedarkerf

CR888 said:


> l just put some Pro Safety Felling spikes on a ms261 and a 660 .... it kinda feels like you loose half the bar on the 261 with 18"b/c but with a 3' b/c on the 660 today they were really nice. The ms261 wants to roll over now like my 550xp so we will see how long these silly big spikes last. The dual 362 spikes/roller catcher were near perfect as far as fit and function goes but the pro safety spikes makes my saw look tough kinda like McBob's tattoo.


For me the big dawgs keep the power head off the butt swell using the saw bar up on low stumps


----------



## Hinerman

KG441c said:


> Competition and creative discussion pushes a person farther ahead in the search for ultimate performance (different performance factors for different folks) in saws?


 
I agree.



HuskStihl said:


> Thank you very much for the compliment, but saying Brad is kinda weird looking to have produced such a beautiful child really wasn't a joke.
> 
> My kids are very attractive and athletic, but that really comes as no surprise. I mean, have you seen my avatar pic? I'm dead sexy! (that was a joke)


 
Right on cue


----------



## Chris-PA

Cedarkerf said:


> keep the power head off the butt swell


Is it good to stay away from the butt swell?


----------



## blsnelling

I ordered a little bling for the 661 this morning. The new wrap style dawgs are ordered. A new 32" ES Light is in the works.


----------



## Spectre468

Did yours come with the hoodie?


----------



## blsnelling

Spectre468 said:


> Did yours come with the hoodie?


No


----------



## Spectre468

Dang...


----------



## blsnelling

Spectre468 said:


> Did yours come with the hoodie?


Was that you that bought a 661? I need to find the pic of that hoodie.


----------



## Spectre468

No, mine will be here Wednesday.


----------



## Spectre468

I cannot find the thread either.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

A guy from canada had the sweatshirt...dieselshawn maybe ?


----------



## DarthTater

Nice Saw!

Only thing I don't care for is the Dawgs, odd design imho.


----------



## Derrick Sawyer

Stihl hoodie deal is in Canada, see link below, don't know why the only deals we have here in the US if for saws like the 271, Stihl USA kind of lame in that way, same thing with the Stihl toy chainsaw, had to get it from Canada or UK.

http://en.stihl.ca/STIHL-Products/C...n-saws-for-forestry/22281-130/MS-661-C-M.aspx


----------



## DarthTater

Derrick Sawyer said:


> Stihl hoodie deal is in Canada, see link below, don't know why the only deals we have here in the US if for saws like the 271, Stihl USA kind of lame in that way, same thing with the Stihl toy chainsaw, had to get it from Canada or UK.
> 
> http://en.stihl.ca/STIHL-Products/C...n-saws-for-forestry/22281-130/MS-661-C-M.aspx



Yeah that is Lame.


----------



## LowVolt

DarthTater said:


> Yeah that is Lame.


VERY!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Chris-PA said:


> Is it good to stay away from the butt swell?


If the power head is close to a root the starter housing so.etimes try to ramp up on the root or swell putting a side load on your bar causing some binding .


----------



## Chris-PA

Cedarkerf said:


> If the power head is close to a root the starter housing so.etimes try to ramp up on the root or swell putting a side load on your bar causing some binding .


Sorry, it was supposed to be an off-color joke - I should have put a smilie on there.


----------



## windthrown

blsnelling said:


> Was that you that bought a 661? I need to find the pic of that hoodie.



Bah. I thought that you were talking about an attachment for the saw, like the large AF covers on the 372xp or something. But the hoodie is just... a hooded sweatshirt.


----------



## windthrown

DarthTater said:


> Nice Saw!
> 
> Only thing I don't care for is the Dawgs, odd design imho.



I like that size dawg, and I have had them on several saws. I had the narrower ones on my 044 and on my 441, and the same wider type on my 660. I lever my saws hard off the dawgs when falling and bucking, and I find that they work well for me. They do not fall off or break anyway.


----------



## Mastermind

Got the popup spun yet Brad? 

lol


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> Got the popup spun yet Brad?
> 
> lol


I lol ed a little on that one


----------



## Mastermind

Just ribbing him a little. 

Brad knows how to build a runner.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Got the popup spun yet Brad?
> 
> lol


Bite me! Lol


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> Bite me! Lol



I'm here for ya bro. You know that though.


----------



## blsnelling

Was that my outside voice?!


----------



## Mastermind

Prolly so. 

I heard it down here.


----------



## Trx250r180

I read on the internet quad port saws only last 2 years because they make too much power for the cranks ,that's why the old stihls run forever they do not make enough power to break anything ,am i on the right track here ?


----------



## Mastermind

You lost all credibility when you said "I read on the internet".


----------



## tlandrum

yeh ,we knows you cant read.


----------



## blsnelling

This is more it like


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> You lost all credibility when you said "I read on the internet".


I was hoping i would lose all credibility with that comment ,mission accomplished


----------



## MCW

Trx250r180 said:


> I was hoping i would lose all credibility with that comment ,mission accomplished



Sounded believable to me?


----------



## Trx250r180

MCW said:


> Sounded believable to me?


It was pure BS ,took all of 30 seconds to make up out of misc quotes i have read lately ,and nothing against whoever i quoted off of ,was just having fun with it ,makes the day go by faster


----------



## Mastermind

I like boobies.


----------



## MCW

Trx250r180 said:


> It was pure BS ,took all of 30 seconds to make up out of misc quotes i have read lately ,and nothing against whoever i quoted off of ,was just having fun with it ,makes the day go by faster



What??? You made it up???

Oh well, just another AS member crossed off my Christmas Card list I suppose


----------



## weedkilla

There are laws against making things up on the internet.

My personal lawyer told me, just the other day, while we were driving the gibb river rd in my Bugatti veyron.


----------



## MCW

weedkilla said:


> There are laws against making things up on the internet.
> 
> My personal lawyer told me, just the other day, while we were driving the gibb river rd in my Bugatti veyron.



What colour is your Veyron? I got a black one.


----------



## mdavlee

Shiny ball>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>O


----------



## Locust Cutter

weedkilla said:


> There are laws against making things up on the internet.
> 
> My personal lawyer told me, just the other day, while we were driving the gibb river rd in my Bugatti veyron.


I didn't hear my lawyer's call as I was logging Sequoias in KS with my Stihl Carbon... And stuff.


----------



## AKDoug

Glad to see a certain thread disappeared along with my comments... good to see you Monkeyman


----------



## Spectre468

AKDoug said:


> Glad to see a certain thread disappeared along with my comments... good to see you Monkeyman




Doug, you guys seeing any of the 661's up there yet?


----------



## AKDoug

Nope. They aren't in the Stihl NW warehouse (that I can tell) yet. Which seems odd to me since you'd think the NW would be a major market for them. I won't sell many anyway. This far north in Alaska we don't sell them unless they are for milling. I only sold two 660's this year.


----------



## Spectre468

No kidding?! Interesting! I would have thought that it would have to be a hot item up in your parts.


----------



## windthrown

weedkilla said:


> There are laws against making things up on the internet.
> 
> My personal lawyer told me, just the other day, while we were driving the gibb river rd in my Bugatti veyron.



Did you sip 100 year old Scotch and eat caviar from the cleavages of 3 young Aussie hotties on that particular drive? Or was that the trip where AC/DC flew in on a helicopter to play a few tunes when you were at lunch? After you had the bag of gold bars dropped off at your mom's place and had the lawyer draft up the million some odd sods from your Swiss bank account?


----------



## AKDoug

Spectre468 said:


> No kidding?! Interesting! I would have thought that it would have to be a hot item up in your parts.


The only big trees in this state are in the southeast and south coast of Alaska. Once you get north of that you are looking at trees that max out in the 24" range. We only really have two species of trees that get that big; birch and white spruce. Neither of which are very hard. I have cut trees in the 36" range, but they are once or twice a year thing. I sell less that two or three 461's a year, but dozens of 362's and 261's.

In southeast Alaska and around the southern coast as far west as Kodiak, we have some giant spruce and cedar. That is the big saw portion of the state.


----------



## MCW

AKDoug said:


> The only big trees in this state are in the southeast and south coast of Alaska. Once you get north of that you are looking at trees that max out in the 24" range. We only really have two species of trees that get that big; birch and white spruce. Neither of which are very hard. I have cut trees in the 36" range, but they are once or twice a year thing. I sell less that two or three 461's a year, but dozens of 362's and 261's.
> 
> In southeast Alaska and around the southern coast as far west as Kodiak, we have some giant spruce and cedar. That is the big saw portion of the state.



That's actually similar to our region although we lack what you'd call forests. I'm one of the only guys around my area running any saws at all over 90cc. The biggest sellers here are the MS170-MS310 range. A bar length over 20" is basically unheard of. Any naturally growing native tree on crown or private land is protected, even if it's dead.


----------



## AKDoug

MCW said:


> That's actually similar to our region although we lack what you'd call forests. I'm one of the only guys around my area running any saws at all over 90cc. The biggest sellers here are the MS170-MS310 range. A bar length over 20" is basically unheard of. Any naturally growing native tree on crown or private land is protected, even if it's dead.


You'd be proud of me... I cut down about 200 "trees" today with my MS241....the biggest one was 7".


----------



## MCW

AKDoug said:


> You'd be proud of me... I cut down about 200 "trees" today with my MS241....the biggest one was 7".



Cool bananas! I bet it loved it too!
Great little saws. 
The biggest pro saw model ever sold in our region was the 200T for fruit tree contact pruners. Hundreds were sold around here. I was speaking to one of the major contractors a few years ago and he'd gone from 200T's to Echo top handles. When I asked why he simply said "If a meathead employee straight fuels a $1500 (AUD$) MS200T it dies just as quick as a $500 Echo". He had a point.

To get back on track though I really think the 661 might turn into the ultimate dead Australian hardwood firewood saw, especially in Redgum. Tough, reasonable on fuel, plus a great filter, combined with some OK local service.


----------



## windthrown

AKDoug said:


> Nope. They aren't in the Stihl NW warehouse (that I can tell) yet. Which seems odd to me since you'd think the NW would be a major market for them. I won't sell many anyway. This far north in Alaska we don't sell them unless they are for milling. I only sold two 660's this year.





Spectre468 said:


> No kidding?! Interesting! I would have thought that it would have to be a hot item up in your parts.



Doug is way up north. Trees are actually pretty small up there. Many of the same species as we have here, but they have a lot shorter growing season and it is a lot colder in winter, so they grow a lot smaller there. Birch, alder, cottonwood, etc.

And yah, no post-recall 661s here yet in Oregon either. Same distributor, I believe.


----------



## treesmith

MCW said:


> Is the 390XB like a 390XP?



Similar but Xtra Bananas 

really loved my 660xb but love my 390xb betterer


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> I like boobies.


Just for you!



You knew some smartass was gonna do it!


----------



## tlandrum

that's weird,3 boobies , ive only ever seen em in pairs. must be a defect


----------



## whitedogone

http://m.clickorlando.com/news/florida-woman-adds-3rd-breast-to-become-unattractive/28187094


----------



## sawfun

This begs the question Randy, which do you prefer, the red or blue footed variety?

As to the three boobie issue, I believe the movie "Paul" shows a solution to this very subject.


----------



## Wolfcsm

blsnelling said:


> I'm not aware of any saw that comes with an 8-pin. I've never bought a new 880 or 3120 though.


 
When I bought my 066 new, it came with an 8 pin rim - out of the box. In fact, Stihl had a note on their bar and chain chart that a 24 inch bar on an 066 required 85 rather than 84 drivers.

Hal


----------



## sawfun

An 8 pin on a 24" bar works well on a stock 066. It works on a 36" bar too but a 7 pin is better for the big cuts.


----------



## Wolfcsm

sawfun said:


> An 8 pin on a 24" bar works well on a stock 066. It works on a 36" bar too but a 7 pin is better for the big cuts.


 
I have tried a 7 pin on a 36" in hard oak - did not really like it. After Brad worked on the 066, with a 36" bar and either RS or LGX chain, the 8 works with the power of the saw.

Hal


----------



## mdavlee

No 661 at my dealer today. The guy I usually deal with wasn't around so I didn't get to find out when they'd have any.


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> No 661 at my dealer today. The guy I usually deal with wasn't around so I didn't get to find out when they'd have any.


You gonna get one ?


----------



## mdavlee

Trx250r180 said:


> You gonna get one ?


Not til one comes by in a box as a project.


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> Not til one comes by in a box as a project.


I am not as excited about this saw like i was when the 461 came out ,the coil springs and m-tronic do not turn me on ,i like the solid mounted saws


----------



## mdavlee

Trx250r180 said:


> I am not as excited about this saw like i was when the 461 came out ,the coil springs and m-tronic do not turn me on ,i like the solid mounted saws


I know what you mean. I would have bought one of these last year at this time. Now the want has went way down.


----------



## splitpost

whitedogone said:


> http://m.clickorlando.com/news/florida-woman-adds-3rd-breast-to-become-unattractive/28187094


what a fruitloop.......................................


----------



## Spectre468

mdavlee said:


> I know what you mean. I would have bought one of these last year at this time. Now the want has went way down.


Well guys, I have always been leery of new technology too. I bought 2 M-tronic saws this spring, and couldn't be happier. I have no reservations about the M-tronic technology at this point. As far as the spring AV setup, all I can say is WOW!!! what a difference. I have 3 new saws with them, and it really makes a difference. Less vibration to beat you up, makes for pleasant cutting with a lot less fatigue. I used to get cramps in my hands after a couple hours running a saw. Now, using the Timbersports gloves and the new AV saws, no cramps even after a full day cutting. I know it's not scientific proof, but it is a difference that I can feel.

Try it. You'll like it!


----------



## Spectre468

AKDoug said:


> The only big trees in this state are in the southeast and south coast of Alaska. Once you get north of that you are looking at trees that max out in the 24" range. We only really have two species of trees that get that big; birch and white spruce. Neither of which are very hard. I have cut trees in the 36" range, but they are once or twice a year thing. I sell less that two or three 461's a year, but dozens of 362's and 261's.
> 
> In southeast Alaska and around the southern coast as far west as Kodiak, we have some giant spruce and cedar. That is the big saw portion of the state.



Thanks for the lesson, as I was under the assumption that there were big trees and heavy forest all over AK. Kinda like when I was a kid, I thought that AZ was just dirt dessert. Boy was I wrong, but I didn't find that out until I actually went to AZ, and saw the water, mountains and forests for myself, and I live in NM. I know a lot of people have the same desert perception of NM, which is also wrong...


----------



## HuskStihl

Yet another total derail, but honestly, how hard would it be for the manufacturers to come up with a chainsaw AV system which felt "accurate" like rubber, but "comfy" like spring? For me, with a short bar, its spring all the way, with a long bar, it's still spring (cause I hate my hands buzzing all night), but I wish there was something better with less chassis "stretch" when the bar is horizontal


----------



## blsnelling

Progressive rate springs!!!


----------



## Trx250r180

blsnelling said:


> Progressive rate springs!!!


How much sag would you have to run ?


----------



## blsnelling

Trx250r180 said:


> How much sag would you have to run ?


I'm not THAT old!


----------



## AKDoug

blsnelling said:


> Progressive rate springs!!!


and gas shocks...


----------



## dwraisor

Spectre468 said:


> Thanks for the lesson, as I was under the assumption that there were big trees and heavy forest all over AK. Kinda like when I was a kid, I thought that AZ was just dirt dessert. Boy was I wrong, but I didn't find that out until I actually went to AZ, and saw the water, mountains and forests for myself, and I live in NM. I know a lot of people have the same desert perception of NM, which is also wrong...



I was more the opposite, I would assume the permafrost and cold weather limited the area covered by forests, as well as limiting species, but would have expected them to be larger. Maybe even some place where true old-growth still existed.

Gots to git up there one day.

dw


----------



## Full Chisel

whitedogone said:


> http://m.clickorlando.com/news/florida-woman-adds-3rd-breast-to-become-unattractive/28187094



Wow, just wow. I doubt she was getting much attention in the first place, because attention is the only thing she is after with that. What a sad, lonely person she must be...her daddy must be so proud.


----------



## sawfun

Southern & coastal Alaskan trees should be larger.


----------



## porsche965

Where oh where is Brad's ported 661? We are waiting.....


----------



## MustangMike

I'm sure that good things take time!

And AK, it need Magnetic Shocks, to go with those progressive springs!

And Spectre, I'm glad U R enjoying those new saws, I figured U would!


----------



## LowVolt

MustangMike said:


> And AK, it need Magnetic Shocks, to go with those progressive springs!



Those shocks are filled with that electricly charged liquid that vary the damping factor with a push of a button? I remember seeing those somewhere on a hummer or something.......pretty badass.


----------



## windthrown

whitedogone said:


> http://m.clickorlando.com/news/florida-woman-adds-3rd-breast-to-become-unattractive/28187094





Full Chisel said:


> Wow, just wow. I doubt she was getting much attention in the first place, because attention is the only thing she is after with that. What a sad, lonely person she must be...her daddy must be so proud.



Well, I dunno about unattractive. I always liked this three breasted woman:



I think she is hawt. She would keep my mouth ~and~ my two hands busy. What could be better than that?

Now, are we frikkin' off topic, or what?


----------



## MustangMike

LowVolt said:


> Those shocks are filled with that electricly charged liquid that vary the damping factor with a push of a button? I remember seeing those somewhere on a hummer or something.......pretty badass.



Caddy developed them, then GM put them in the Vette, they worked so good Ferrari licensed them, then GM put them in the new Z-28 Camaro that embarrassed the Porches and BMWs at the track, and now Ford has licensed them for the upcoming GT-350 Mustang ... so they must work pretty damn well!


----------



## whitedogone

windthrown said:


> Well, I dunno about unattractive. I always liked this three breasted woman:
> 
> View attachment 383691
> 
> I think she is hawt. She would keep my mouth ~and~ my two hands busy. What could be better than that?
> 
> Now, are we frikkin' off topic, or what?


 
So, you're saying you'd really like to walk through a half acre of those puppies bare-footed?


----------



## sawfun

I have driven one of the old ZR1 Vetts that had adjustable suspension with the turn of a knob. If thats what those were, man they are
great. Point and shoot steering or ride like a Cadillac at your fingertips.


----------



## windthrown

whitedogone said:


> So, you're saying you'd really like to walk through a half acre of those puppies bare-footed?



Well now, there's a thought!!! That gets a Homer Simpson wiggly fingered, _Ooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhh!!!!!!
_


----------



## windthrown




----------



## MustangMike

sawfun said:


> I have driven one of the old ZR1 Vetts that had adjustable suspension with the turn of a knob. If thats what those were, man they are
> great. Point and shoot steering or ride like a Cadillac at your fingertips.



The new stuff adjusts on the fly w/o any turn of the knob. It automatically adjust to conditions & circumstances.


----------



## Full Chisel

windthrown said:


> Well, I dunno about unattractive. I always liked this three breasted woman:
> 
> View attachment 383691
> 
> I think she is hawt. She would keep my mouth ~and~ my two hands busy. What could be better than that?
> 
> Now, are we frikkin' off topic, or what?



Now that is a classy three boobed broad right there. The other girl...not so much.


----------



## Officer's Match

Mastermind said:


> I like boobies.



I like pie.


----------



## sawfun

Officer's Match said:


> I like pie.



Now at least thats getting back towards the subject.


----------



## LowVolt




----------



## AKDoug

dwraisor said:


> I was more the opposite, I would assume the permafrost and cold weather limited the area covered by forests, as well as limiting species, but would have expected them to be larger. Maybe even some place where true old-growth still existed.
> 
> Gots to git up there one day.
> 
> dw


Permafrost only exists in some areas, but they still have trees. We have old growth, trees that have never been cleared, but they still aren't very big. Now, SE Alaska has MONSTER old growth still. You have to remember that Alaska is 1/5 the land mass of the lower 48. Two and a half times as large as Texas. From the western tip of the Aleutian Islands to the eastern tip of SE Alaska is almost the same width as the entire Lower 48. Look at the bio diversity of that area of the lower 48 and you can see why Alaska has such diverse fauna and climate.


----------



## Spectre468

Where'd Brad go? Sure hope he's busy either working on the 661, or fixin' to upload pix of the 661....


----------



## Spectre468

So, I brought my 661R C-M home yesterday. Decided to put an 8 tooth rim on it. That should give me faster chain speed, right? Rain and snow all day, decided not to take it out and play. Hopefully next week! Forgot to add, running a 32" bar with 33RSF105.


----------



## porsche965

Even running skip chain on a 32" stock 661c I think you will be changing back to a 7 pin rim. 

I run a 7 on mine with a 28" full comp chain and after putting my ported 441c up against it wearing a skip chain they were very close in times. Very close. So close that the 661 will be getting ported at this rate.

The 661 is a great saw and a nice improvement over the 660 but it doesn't have a Capital "S" or wear a cape.


----------



## Spectre468

porsche965 said:


> Even running skip chain on a 32" stock 661c I think you will be changing back to a 7 pin rim.
> 
> I run a 7 on mine with a 28" full comp chain and after putting my ported 441c up against it wearing a skip chain they were very close in times. Very close. So close that the 661 will be getting ported at this rate.
> 
> The 661 is a great saw and a nice improvement over the 660 but it doesn't have a Capital "S" or wear a cape.




Aww, don't go burstin' my bubble after I spent all that money! 

Seriously though, thanks for the info. I'll have to try both.


----------



## Officer's Match

porsche965 said:


> Even running skip chain on a 32" stock 661c I think you will be changing back to a 7 pin rim.
> 
> I run a 7 on mine with a 28" full comp chain and after putting my ported 441c up against it wearing a skip chain they were very close in times. Very close. So close that the 661 will be getting ported at this rate.
> 
> The 661 is a great saw and a nice improvement over the 660 but it doesn't have a Capital "S" or wear a cape.



Have I mentioned I love me a ported 441R C-M?


----------



## DarthTater

Being Broke Sure Sucks when you see a saw you want to buy.......


----------



## porsche965

Sure didn't mean to burst bubbles, sorry about that. I've got an exceptional good running 441c. However here are a couple more points that should prove out.

The 661 with larger displacement will pull a bar over 28" better IMO. What I did notice is that when you pull harder on the handle the 661 shines while the 441 begins to frown. Point 661. When the 441's chain speed remain high she flies. This also is less work it seems, point 441.

I run stihl lite bars but am pretty certain a 32 or 36" ES bar would feel better balanced and the sheer weight would work for you in the cut as well on the 661. 

The 661 does have place in my saw plan, but doesn't shine until you get rough with her. Hmmm I knew an old girlfriend like that once


----------



## porsche965

Officer's Match said:


> Have I mentioned I love me a ported 441R C-M?



Yes I sure do! One other significant difference at the end of three tanks each yesterday with the 441c and 661c is the filtration. The 441c had maybe 1/5 the debris as the 661c. Now why couldn't Stihl have re-engineered this? 

No performance difference noted however.


----------



## CR888

lf yas all just want fast cut times cutting cookies...port a 390xp. lf you want a serious saw that will pull a 3 ft bar all day without raising a sweat...get a 661. Both 60/79/80cc class saws will outcut 90-125cc saws in small wood...speed is not all the engineers have on their mind.


----------



## CR888

porsche965 said:


> Yes I sure do! One other significant difference at the end of three tanks each yesterday with the 441c and 661c is the filtration. The 441c had maybe 1/5 the debris as the 661c. Now why couldn't Stihl have re-engineered this?
> 
> No performance difference noted however.


The increase in breathing with a 90cc saw means it probably uses double the air a 70cc saw does. Sometimes basic physics factor into the equation that we must not overlook.


----------



## KG441c

porsche965 said:


> Yes I sure do! One other significant difference at the end of three tanks each yesterday with the 441c and 661c is the filtration. The 441c had maybe 1/5 the debris as the 661c. Now why couldn't Stihl have re-engineered this?
> 
> No performance difference noted however.


I noticed when I had my 441c the filter stayed very clean too!


----------



## KG441c

porsche965 said:


> Yes I sure do! One other significant difference at the end of three tanks each yesterday with the 441c and 661c is the filtration. The 441c had maybe 1/5 the debris as the 661c. Now why couldn't Stihl have re-engineered this?
> 
> No performance difference noted however.


I have a question Porsche . If you plan on cutting 25" wood and under which saw are u going to pick up to cut with and how do the 2 compare in torque and cutting speed between the 2 saws in that size wood?


----------



## Officer's Match

KG441c said:


> I have a question Porsche . If you plan on cutting 25" wood and under which saw are u going to pick up to cut with and how do the 2 compare in torque and cutting speed between the 2 saws in that size wood?


I can't answer for porche, but that's not a question at all. 441 easy. I sold a strong, ported 390XP due to that very condition. I also frequently use my 441 when a smaller saw like my 2153 would work - it's become my one-saw-plan.


----------



## KG441c

Officer's Match said:


> I can't answer for porche, but that's not a question at all. 441 easy. I sold a strong, ported 390XP due to that very condition. I also frequently use my 441 when a smaller saw like my 2153 would work - it's become my one-saw-plan.


Ya I hear u. My stock 441c was fast and cut very smooth and cant imagine how well it would cut ported?


----------



## blsnelling

A 70cc saw is my go to until I need something with more than a 28" bar. I'm talking ported of course.


----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> A 70cc saw is my go to until I need something with more than a 28" bar. I'm talking ported of course.


Ya I agree Brad and my ported 461 with the 28 es light is gonna be my big wood saw. Id love to have another 441c though with a 24 b/c


----------



## MustangMike

Spectre468 said:


> So, I brought my 661R C-M home yesterday. Decided to put an 8 tooth rim on it. That should give me faster chain speed, right? Rain and snow all day, decided not to take it out and play. Hopefully next week! Forgot to add, running a 32" bar with 33RSF105.



I wish U the best of luck with that beautiful new saw, but U are asking a lot of a stock saw to put an 8 pin on with a bar that long. Would be different if U were running a shorter bar.

I like 7 pin better even with my ported 046 and 24" bar.

What U gain in chain speed U will give up in torque, and more chain speed = more wear & stress on everything. (14% change)

I would try both pins in real world cutting and see which one U prefer. I don't think U will see much difference in cut speed, and I like being able to lean on the saw a little more. Just my 2 cents!

Keep us posted.


----------



## mdavlee

32" skip chain has about the same amount of cutters as a 24" full comp. If you don't push on it the 8 pin will work.


----------



## porsche965

KG441c said:


> I have a question Porsche . If you plan on cutting 25" wood and under which saw are u going to pick up to cut with and how do the 2 compare in torque and cutting speed between the 2 saws in that size wood?


 
If you would lean hard on the 661 it may be a shade faster than a ported 70cc saw. That's something I'll have to try. Maybe if it don't rain this weekend I can get a couple of videos up. 25" wood and a 28" bar buried in Oak. The logs are almost chest high on some of them. Torque? 661. All I do is block for the spitter crew for exercise and fun. They pay me in friendship.

My pick for 25" and down would be the 441c or any ported 70cc saw from the great builders on AS site. For me the 661c is more just for fun however it is the saw of choice (over 25 661s out in the field working since 11/13) and they use a 20 or 25" 95% of the time, the loggers of course in hardwoods. 

Can't wait to see the one Brad is porting run and stack up.


----------



## porsche965

Heading to the Dealer today. Thinking about getting a 36" Stihl Lite bar and some loops of skip and full comp chains to see just what she has under her hood in Oak.


----------



## KG441c

porsche965 said:


> If you would lean hard on the 661 it may be a shade faster than a ported 70cc saw. That's something I'll have to try. Maybe if it don't rain this weekend I can get a couple of videos up. 25" wood and a 28" bar buried in Oak. The logs are almost chest high on some of them. Torque? 661. All I do is block for the spitter crew for exercise and fun. They pay me in friendship.
> 
> My pick for 25" and down would be the 441c or any ported 70cc saw from the great builders on AS site. For me the 661c is more just for fun however it is the saw of choice (over 25 661s out in the field working since 11/13) and they use a 20 or 25" 95% of the time, the loggers of course in hardwoods.
> 
> Can't wait to see the one Brad is porting run and stack up.


Ya Brad is teasing us!!! Lol!! Id love to see the comparison of the 441c/ 661c in 25" wood.


----------



## MustangMike

Keith, those bar choices sound about right for the 441/461, but I like a 20" on the 362.

As Ryan has suggested, I should get a 28" light for the 046. I love the combination of speed & torque the 460/461 saws have. They are great for bucking, but a little heavy for other stuff (guess I'm starting to reflect my age).

A 661 would be real nice to have, but I think there are very few times I would really need one.


----------



## MustangMike

IMO, your 461 will be the saw to go to for any wood that 28" bar will handle. The 661 will shine with the longer bars.

As other posters have stated, the big saws start to focus on torque over speed, and they do get heavier.


----------



## blsnelling

The 661 will be ported very soon. I have a second one here to port. That frees me up with my saw to be a little more aggressive, and take a few more risk than I otherwise would have. I'll port mine a little more aggressively, and the customers saw a little more conservatively. I'll then compare them. If mine is stronger, I'll go back in the customers saw.


----------



## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> The 661 will be ported very soon. I have a second one here to port. That frees me up with my saw to be a little more aggressive, and take a few more risk than I otherwise would have. I'll port mine a little more aggressively, and the customers saw a little more conservatively. I'll then compare them. If mine is stronger, I'll go back in the customers saw.


 Brad, ever get a chance to put a tach on it at WOT?


----------



## blsnelling

Ron660 said:


> Brad, ever get a chance to put a tach on it at WOT?


No. It hasn't been run again. Too many other saws to work on. Just last night, I put a new piston and a carb kit in a 066, put a new carb in the 2260, and completely disassembled and went through a MS440!


----------



## porsche965

I tached at 13,200 a few times. 

A 661c or any 90cc saw for most of the non-professionals isn't really needed with the fact of how well the 70cc do run. 

But it's just like having a few .45s around. You just feel better.


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> The 661 will be ported very soon. I have a second one here to port. That frees me up with my saw to be a little more aggressive, and take a few more risk than I otherwise would have. I'll port mine a little more aggressively, and the customers saw a little more conservatively. I'll then compare them. If mine is stronger, I'll go back in the customers saw.


I appreciate that


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> I appreciate that


That's why I like to buy one for myself first


----------



## KG441c

Brad thats sure nice of you. Port one of them already!!!!! Lol!!


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> That's why I like to buy one for myself first


I prefer you blow your's up first


----------



## KG441c

stihlaficionado said:


> I prefer you blow your's up first


. Im sure he has a rabbit in his hat..


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> I prefer you blow your's up first


And then blow yours up?


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> And then blow yours up?


Since mine will be a kindling cutter it's probably best to go easy on it. But then, one can cut more kindling with a fast saw then a slow one.


----------



## Mastermind

I've got a few 661s sitting around. 

Pics of the carnage? Please?


----------



## blsnelling

This conversation is making me ill, lol


----------



## porsche965

I believe that this saw will port just like the 441c have. That you guys will be successful and that there is also 30% laying around inside this new saw. You'll find it.

The suspense is worse than Christmas after shopping for the wife at Victoria Secrets!


----------



## Four Paws

Mastermind said:


> I've got a few 661s sitting around.



Probably amidst the Husqvarna carcasses.


----------



## mdavlee

porsche965 said:


> I believe that this saw will port just like the 441c have. That you guys will be successful and that there is also 30% laying around inside this new saw. You'll find it.
> 
> The suspense is worse than Christmas after shopping for the wife at Victoria Secrets!


Be more like a 461. Same cylinder design.


----------



## KG441c

mdavlee said:


> Be more like a 461. Same cylinder design.


Should be a bad son a gun


----------



## mdavlee

KG441c said:


> Should be a bad son a gun


Yep. I ran the one Randy had last year at this time. It did run good.


----------



## MustangMike

Cylinder Question for Dummies ... OK, I try to follow all this 2 cycle stuff, but I still get lost. I know they went from 2 transfer ports to 4, but can U explain (in simple language) what the major differences R between a 460, 441 and 461/661? Thanks.

I'm starting to feel like when I have to ask one of my daughters how to do something on my SmartPhone!


----------



## blsnelling

The 441 is a true strato saw, nothing like the other three. The 461 & 661 are basically traditional quad port engines.


----------



## blsnelling

mdavlee said:


> Be more like a 461. Same cylinder design.


That's my thinking. If it responds like a 461, it'll be a bad dude!


----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> That's my thinking. If it responds like a 461, it'll be a bad dude!


Port that bad boy already!! Lol!


----------



## MustangMike

blsnelling said:


> The 441 is a true strato saw, nothing like the other three. The 461 & 661 are basically traditional quad port engines.




So what is the difference in the cylinder on a true Strato saw, and are the 261 and 362 also "true strato"? I know what strato is supposed to do, but knot sure of the design differences. Thanks.


----------



## Mike Clark

blsnelling said:


> BTW, warranties are overrated


Hey newbie to the site, I live close by in Madison Twp, What a nice saw man Im hoping to have the husky 562 XP after Santa Claus comes.
Im a 10+cord a year burner and weekend warrior fire cutter something like that would come in handy lol
Mike


----------



## blsnelling

Yes, the 261 and 362 are true strato saws. I'll not try to describe a strato saw here on my phone.


----------



## Trx250r180

By the images it almost looks like a 660 carb and coil may fit this saw


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

blsnelling said:


> The 661 will be ported very soon. I have a second one here to port. That frees me up with my saw to be a little more aggressive, and take a few more risk than I otherwise would have. I'll port mine a little more aggressively, and the customers saw a little more conservatively. I'll then compare them. If mine is stronger, I'll go back in the customers saw.



Make sure mine is gonna run better than everyone elses


----------



## KG441c

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Make sure mine is gonna run better than everyone elses


I think my muffler modded 241c with special filed ps chain will takem all!!!


----------



## deye223

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

KG441c said:


> I think my muffler modded 241c with special filed ps chain will takem all!!!



3-6-2 R c-m for the win.


----------



## KG441c

Ryan u r gonna stir Mike from Maine up!! Lol!


----------



## Mastermind

This is what I love about a ported M/T Stihl.......notice how well it holds RPM in the cut. 

The bar is 28", the chain is round filed RSC, and the wood is wild cherry.


----------



## KG441c

Mastermind said:


> This is what I love about a ported M/T Stihl.......notice how well it holds RPM in the cut.
> 
> The bar is 28", the chain is round filed RSC, and the wood is wild cherry.



Awesome!! I have a question Randy. Why dont regular 660s cut well with higher rpm? Why do they like being rich?


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> This is what I love about a ported M/T Stihl.......notice how well it holds RPM in the cut.
> 
> The bar is 28", the chain is round filed RSC, and the wood is wild cherry.




If you run the R side cover ,your pockets will not fill up with chips so bad


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

KG441c said:


> Ryan u r gonna stir Mike from Maine up!! Lol!



Nah...the 362 is awesome !


----------



## Ray Bell

Mastermind said:


> This is what I love about a ported M/T Stihl.......notice how well it holds RPM in the cut.
> 
> The bar is 28", the chain is round filed RSC, and the wood is wild cherry.




You know I really like this site, and watching the vids, but as a woodturner cringe at times seeing all of these beautiful "bowls" cut up into cookies. Seriously though, I often wonder if the chainsaw design engineers read this site. You builders do a great job at getting these saws up too potential.


----------



## MustangMike

You are forgetting about EPA, they are willing to give up 50% of performance to get 10% reduction in emissions. Makes sense, right? (Perhaps I exaggerate a little, but not much!)


----------



## Deleted member 83629

i can believe that when it comes to some brands of saws like what i use.


----------



## MustangMike

Re: Strato ... This helps


----------



## HTTR

MustangMike said:


> Re: Strato ... This helps



Great video with good info. I don't know much about the strato setup. Thanks for sharing this Mike.


----------



## Mastermind

Got the popup spun yet?


----------



## Mastermind

Or the fingers cut?


----------



## porsche965

MM, would that be a 661 cylinder?


----------



## Mastermind

No......the first one is a 084 jug......and the second is a 064.

I'm just using peer pressure tactics on muh friend.


----------



## blsnelling

MODS HAVE BEGUN!!!


----------



## Mastermind

Pics of the popup?


----------



## blsnelling

Popup - .035"
Squish - .022"

*Port Timing BEFORE Porting*
Exhaust - 100°
Transfers - 125° + a heavy angled
Intake - 85°!!

And Randy, you can just kiss my popup butt!!!


----------



## Mastermind

Yeah......that 85 on the intake sorta sucks huh?


----------



## Mastermind

The 100 on the exhaust sounds good though.


----------



## Trx250r180

I prefer reversed domes ..........


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Yeah......that 85 on the intake sorta sucks huh?


I was shocked to see that! Is that what you saw on the two you've done?


----------



## Mastermind

Me too Brian. 


I've been thinking about building a finger ported 262XPO with a dished 261 piston.


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> I was shocked to see that! Is that what you saw on the two you've done?



Yes......and the reason I had to get a new jug when I got the exhaust too high on that first one. I couldn't drop the jug any lower because of that intake duration.


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> Me too Brian.
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about building a finger ported 262XPO with a dished 261 piston.


That should spool up real nice 15k maybe ?


----------



## blsnelling

It doesn't look like I'll be doing anything to the exhaust other than a little cleanup and polishing. Even the width is good.


----------



## blsnelling

Time to go grind. See you in a couple hours


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> It doesn't look like I'll be doing anything to the exhaust other than a little cleanup and polishing. Even the width is good.



Gains are a little harder to find than they once were. Careful you don't go backward on it.


----------



## Fire8

I've been thinking about building a finger ported 262XPO with a dished 261 piston.[/QUOTE]


----------



## big t double

do you guys measure the intake timing after bottom dead center? so its 85* abdc...and why is that hard to work with?


----------



## wigglesworth

big t double said:


> do you guys measure the intake timing after bottom dead center? so its 85* abdc...and why is that hard to work with?



ATDC.


----------



## Mastermind

Intake timing is measured from TDC like everything else.


----------



## Mastermind

wigglesworth said:


> ATDC.



Troll


----------



## Four Paws

wigglesworth said:


> ATDC.





Mastermind said:


> Troll



Wiggs is right. He's just looking at it from a different point of view.

Intake of 170 duration is the most I have seen on any stock saw.


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> Troll


----------



## Mastermind

I try to see things from Wiggs point of view.......but I can't get my head that far up my ass.


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> I try to see things from Wiggs point of view.......but I can't get my head that far up my ass.



Muh old yearbook photo...


----------



## Mastermind

Have a little Bloodhound Gang for your listening pleasure while we wait for Brad to *popup* again.


----------



## LowVolt

blsnelling said:


> And Randy, you can just kiss my popup!!!



Eeewwwww...


----------



## Mastermind

Or......


----------



## Mastermind

If not then......


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> Have a little Bloodhound Gang for your listening pleasure while we wait for Brad to *popup* again.




Ghey


----------



## wigglesworth




----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> Or......




Now your talkin!!


----------



## Mastermind

It's all about variety for me........I like all sorts of music. 

Except that stuff Chuck'r likes.......I don't care for that stuff.


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> It's all about variety for me........I like all sorts of music.
> 
> Except that stuff Chuck'r likes.......I don't care for that stuff.


----------



## wyk




----------



## DarthTater

Mastermind said:


> This is what I love about a ported M/T Stihl.......notice how well it holds RPM in the cut.
> 
> The bar is 28", the chain is round filed RSC, and the wood is wild cherry.



That's a nice sized hunk of cherry. 

Most around here don't get much bigger than 12" before the beetles kill them (thanks to the bunch of eco freaks that seeded the area with wood boring beetles to try to make logging unprofitable)


----------



## MustangMike

Talk about stupid people! Luckily I think our Cherry are doing OK here in NY also, cause most everything else has a problem! (Ash, Elm Beech, Hemlock, etc.)


----------



## DarthTater

MustangMike said:


> Talk about stupid people! Luckily I think our Cherry are doing OK here in NY also, cause most everything else has a problem! (Ash, Elm Beech, Hemlock, etc.)



the beetles are hitting everything here that hasn't been sprayed with some-kind of insecticide, primarily soft woods but also wild hardwoods, part of why the last 5 years of fire seasons have been crazy here.


----------



## MustangMike

Same! I'm concerned that my Grandchildren will not have the opportunity to see the same trees that I know.


----------



## bryanr2

more my speed..... this is the stuff my children are raised on.







or if im wanting a little edgier rendition...


----------



## DarthTater

MustangMike said:


> Same! I'm concerned that my Grandchildren will not have the opportunity to see the same trees that I know.



Heh, get this an eco freak group just got a North Idaho Town to Outlaw feeding Elk & Deer that were driven into town by the out of control wolf population (a problem that the eco freaks created) the deer were having a hard time getting enough food so the townsfolk started putting feed out for them, the deer & elk populations increased in health and number nicely and will result in a good hunting season, so now they are banning feeding them.....



bryanr2 said:


> more my speed..... this is the stuff my children are raised on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or if im wanting a little edgier rendition...




grew up hearing my grandpa playing these songs a lot.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8p5pVsj9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nea0gYKisUE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to6TjJdUSfs


----------



## blsnelling

Meanwhile, about that MS661..... We had our church's Christmas dinner this evening, so had to leave for a few hours.

This saw runs fantastic! I think Stihl has a winner here. I can't wait to get some run time on it. It was almost dark when I finished putting it back together. A slapped the same B&C back on it that I used last time, only to remember that I had hit something and seriously dulled the chain. As dark as it was, it was either run it like it was, or wait until next week. I figured a dull chain was better than having to wait. You can still tell what the engine runs like, just don't watch the cutting speed, lol! I am very optimistic about this saw! The saw idles great, has great throttle response, and is holding great RPMs in the cut. Compression is 178 PSI. This is only the 5th cut this saw has made since new, so it's not broken in at all really.

I'll get another video next week with a proper chain on it.


----------



## Stihl working hard

blsnelling said:


> Meanwhile, about that MS661..... We had our church's Christmas dinner this evening, so had to leave for a few hours.
> 
> This saw runs fantastic! I think Stihl has a winner here. I can't wait to get some run time on it. It was almost dark when I finished putting it back together. A slapped the same B&C back on it that I used last time, only to remember that I had hit something and seriously dulled the chain. As dark as it was, it was either run it like it was, or wait until next week. I figured a dull chain was better than having to wait. You can still tell what the engine runs like, just don't watch the cutting speed, lol! I am very optimistic about this saw! The saw idles great, has great throttle response, and is holding great RPMs in the cut. Compression is 178 PSI. This is only the 5th cut this saw has made since new, so it's not broken in at all really.
> 
> I'll get another video next week with a proper chain on it.



That saw sounds fantastic Brad definitely holds great rpm in the cut well done


----------



## DarthTater

blsnelling said:


> Meanwhile, about that MS661..... We had our church's Christmas dinner this evening, so had to leave for a few hours.
> 
> This saw runs fantastic! I think Stihl has a winner here. I can't wait to get some run time on it. It was almost dark when I finished putting it back together. A slapped the same B&C back on it that I used last time, only to remember that I had hit something and seriously dulled the chain. As dark as it was, it was either run it like it was, or wait until next week. I figured a dull chain was better than having to wait. You can still tell what the engine runs like, just don't watch the cutting speed, lol! I am very optimistic about this saw! The saw idles great, has great throttle response, and is holding great RPMs in the cut. Compression is 178 PSI. This is only the 5th cut this saw has made since new, so it's not broken in at all really.
> 
> I'll get another video next week with a proper chain on it.




Makes me want one all the more....


----------



## Chris-PA

170° Intake duration
160° Exhaust duration
110° Transfer duration
25° Blowdown
40° Case compression

How do you do much of anything that would drop the cylinder?


----------



## blsnelling

I like the intake at 85° on several saws, including the MS660. Some guys don't, but I have found that it works well. This cylinder was dropped .040", so was likely at about 81° before machine work. That is still probably the lowest I've ever seen a stock saw.

My transfer timing was off on my initial measurement. Once I began laying out the port work, I saw that the very front transfer port was higher than what I had measured. The transfers on this MS661 are tapered, likely more than 10°. I did not measure it exactly, as was only interested in the highest place. The highest spot on the front transfer was actually closer to 118°-119°. IMHO, 100/118/85 are some sweet numbers.


----------



## xxl

Hey maybe a video of a ported 660 and the 661


----------



## blsnelling

xxl said:


> Hey maybe a video of a ported 660 and the 661


I do have access to one very nice and very strong MS660. Paging LowVolt, paging LowVolt!


----------



## LowVolt

Oooooo.....

Popup 661 vs. chamber cut 660


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> Oooooo.....
> 
> Popup 661 vs. chamber cut 660


Got any big wood left to cut?


----------



## LowVolt

Of course. Only because I thought it would be cool to blow up my log splitter motor.


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> Of course. Only because I thought it would be cool to blow up my log splitter motor.


......and make out like a bandit all the while!


----------



## Mastermind

I'm gonna see if Chad is interested in putting this 661 I'm doing now on the dyno.


----------



## hseII

blsnelling said:


> I do have access to one very nice and very strong MS660. Paging LowVolt, paging LowVolt!



You bought another one?

HaHaHaHaHaHa....

Those Sneaky Germans


----------



## LowVolt

hseII said:


> You bought another one?
> 
> HaHaHaHaHaHa....
> 
> Those Sneaky Germans


Yup. I found out about the recalled 661's and just could not wait. Bought youngs 660 ported by Jeremy (wigglesworth). It's a strong saw.


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> I'm gonna see if Chad is interested in putting this 661 I'm doing now on the dyno.



Based on the video, I dont think a 661 will hang with my 395xp. Ive owned that saw since last Nov and never cut with it. But today, I was cutting up some large oak logs that justified giving it a go. That saw is just Nasty! I mean just stupid strong. It was cutting so fast (with an untouched chain) that I felt like I was in The Timbersports Competition cutting discs. It literally took the work out of the work. My only complaint- a splitting headache, and my ears were ringing so much that an hour after I stopped I'da swore my phone was ringing nonstop. I'll be getting earmuffs before I cut with it again.


----------



## blsnelling

395s make great torque but RPMs not so much. A 390 will be faster most of the time. IMHO, a 395 is for stumping or pulling 36"+ bars.


----------



## LowVolt

661 vs 660 vs 395


----------



## Mastermind

No, I don't think a 661 will cut with one of my 395s either Steven.


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> 661 vs 660 vs 395


I've got my new, ported 395 I'll bring along as well. It might have one tank of fuel through it.


----------



## LowVolt

390 too...


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> 390 too...


Most definitely. I just wish the 395 and 661 had more run time on them.


----------



## porsche965

This thread just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## KG441c

Boy this will be a great video with all 4 saws together!!!


----------



## LowVolt

KG441c said:


> Boy this will be a great video with all 4 saws together!!!


I hope so. Just keep in mind it may be a few weeks until our schedules can make it happen.


----------



## KG441c

LowVolt said:


> I hope so. Just keep in mind it may be a few weeks until our schedules can make it happen.


It will be worth waiting on and Id really like to see Randys 661 on Chads dyno to see what that bad dude is putting out!


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> I hope so. Just keep in mind it may be a few weeks until our schedules can make it happen.


We have saws that need testing. I figure that we'll need at least 24" of at least 30" diameter wood to test them...wood that is clean of knots and consistent in diameter. That's hard to come up with for me.


Stock MS661
Ported MS661
Ported MS660
Ported 390XP
Ported 395XP


----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> We have saws that need testing. I figure that we'll need at least 24" of at least 30" diameter wood to test them...wood that is clean of knots and consistent in diameter. That's hard to come up with for me.
> 
> 
> Stock MS661
> Ported MS661
> Ported MS660
> Ported 390XP
> Ported 395XP


Wow!! That will be awesome!!!


----------



## Andyshine77

It's been a long time since we've had a comparison like this, should be a good one.


----------



## bryanr2

blsnelling said:


> 395s make great torque but RPMs not so much. A 390 will be faster most of the time. IMHO, a 395 is for stumping or pulling 36"+ bars.




you havent ran the right 395 then. if you come to Wiggs next time I'll bring a proper one. It might give you a pop up.


----------



## LowVolt

blsnelling said:


> We have saws that need testing. I figure that we'll need at least 24" of at least 30" diameter wood to test them...wood that is clean of knots and consistent in diameter. That's hard to come up with for me.
> 
> 
> Stock MS661
> Ported MS661
> Ported MS660
> Ported 390XP
> Ported 395XP


How long is that stock 661 going to be stock???


----------



## redbull660

think you could use the same bar for the entire test? Maybe a sugihara would work with all the saws? Or Tsumura was very consistent so a tsumura for the stihl's and a tsumura for the husky's. 

After running/testing all the bars I did, I did notice some sizable differences in time between bars.


----------



## LowVolt

I hope. All my bigger stihl bars are all wide nose so they won't work on the huskies with the same chain. It may have to be brads 28" stihl light bar if it has the narrow nose.


----------



## blsnelling

I have Stihl Light 28", 32", and 36". I also have two Tsumura T&L 32". So yes, they will all be wearing the same B&C, using an adapter on the Husky saws.


----------



## Four Paws

LowVolt said:


> It may have to be brads 28" stihl light bar if it has the narrow nose.



28" bars are for 70 cc class saws...

Guess you could run one on big saws with an 8 pin in small wood.


----------



## blsnelling

Four Paws said:


> 28" bars are for 70 cc class saws...
> 
> Guess you could run one on big saws with an 8 pin in small wood.


I agree. This 661 will be wearing a Tsumura 32" T&L, just like the one on my 390XP.


----------



## LowVolt

Four Paws said:


> 28" bars are for 70 cc class saws...
> 
> Guess you could run one on big saws with an 8 pin in small wood.


I understand that. If I had some bigger stuff we would be wearing bigger bars. But if you want me to wear the 36" for a 26" log, so be it.


----------



## HTTR

blsnelling said:


> We have saws that need testing. I figure that we'll need at least 24" of at least 30" diameter wood to test them...wood that is clean of knots and consistent in diameter. That's hard to come up with for me.
> 
> 
> Stock MS661
> Ported MS661
> Ported MS660
> Ported 390XP
> Ported 395XP


----------



## Four Paws

You guys are free to do as you like. You could run those saws with an 8pin/24" in that 26" log.

It is my opinion that if you want to really showcase these big saws, put them to work with a big bar in big wood. Square up that 26" log and strap 4 big cants together, 2x2...side by side/top and bottom, then you can get over 36" to cut. Or, ask around at work or church or via friends for a monster log...maybe even with a tree service. 

I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to perform the cutting test/videos, I just think the test log is critical to obtain the information you are looking for. 36" bar, or even a 42", in a 40+ inch log is going to be a true test of torque and oiler,


----------



## Tree Sling'r

What RPMs is that 661 running at?


----------



## blsnelling

I'm personally not interested in running anything longer than a 36" bar. If I'm going to do that, I'm grabbing the 084. Rory, any idea how big the log is? 30"-34" would be ideal.


----------



## blsnelling

Tree Sling'r said:


> What RPMs is that 661 running at?


It won't register on my Fast Tach Tiny Tach.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> It's been a long time since we've had a comparison like this, should be a good one.


We need some more of that big Bass wood


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> How long is that stock 661 going to be stock???


I should be purchasing a 3rd one here in a few days. It won't be ported until January though.


----------



## LowVolt

blsnelling said:


> I should be purchasing a 3rd one here in a few days. It won't be ported until January though.


I bet your dealer is lickin it's chops!!! 

Dude, hook me up with a hoodie!


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> I bet your dealer is lickin it's chops!!!
> 
> Dude, hook me up with a hoodie!


He can't get them. I've had him looking. I'm trying to find someone that can get me one. I've even sent a message to Stihl on FB. *Any fellow Canadians that could help a brother out?*


----------



## Spectre468

Mine didn't have the hoodie either.


----------



## blsnelling

AFAIK, they are not available in the US.


----------



## LowVolt

blsnelling said:


> AFAIK, they are not available in the US.


----------



## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> I do have access to one very nice and very strong MS660. Paging LowVolt, paging LowVolt!


Is the 660 ported?


LowVolt said:


> 661 vs 660 vs 395


Need to add the 390xp....it will probably be the winner.


----------



## Ron660

Tree Sling'r said:


> What RPMs is that 661 running at?


I read another member said 13200.


----------



## Ron660

Ron660 said:


> Is the 660 ported?
> 
> Need to add the 390xp....it will probably be the winner.


 OK I see a ported 660 on the list. I'm interested to see if the ported 661 will be over 8 HP.


----------



## redbull660

Brad, so your going to use that Tsumura 32 I'm sending you and you have a husky mount 32 tsumura? IMO those would be the ideal bars for an apples to apples test. 


someone mentioned using 8 pin - FWIW I didn't have much luck going from 7 to 8 pin even on a short 20" bar on my 660R.


----------



## blsnelling

Same bar.  I'll use an adapter for the Husky saws.


----------



## LowVolt

Whenever we do this, what chain are we using? Gauge of the tsumura?


----------



## porsche965

Ron660 said:


> I read another member say 13200.



That is stock read off an older analog tach gauge. My digital goes nuts also.


----------



## blsnelling

It's .063 and is coming with a new RS chain.


----------



## redbull660

Brad let me know if you need some more 32" Stihl RS - I can do $22 per loop for ya for the test. I can send in a Priority Regional A box for about $8 or maybe a padded priority envelope for $6...depending on # of chains you need for the test.


I would think the full comp RS would be best ...as I would guess it requires the most balls to pull


----------



## porsche965

Ron660 said:


> OK I see a ported 660 on the list. I'm interested to see if the ported 661 will be over 8 HP.



Just by feel there is 30% easy in my 661 stocker to be had. There isn't any "urgency" like my 441c has. The 661 just feels full of torque, smooth power that at WOT needs a big uncorcking! 

The times and a nice dyno test should prove this. Stihl follows us on AS site and should be handing out hoodies for FREE to the guys doing all this work!


----------



## blsnelling

redbull660 said:


> Brad let me know if you need some more 32" Stihl RS - I can do $22 per loop for ya for the test. I can send in a Priority Regional A box for about $8 or maybe a padded priority envelope for $6...depending on # of chains you need for the test.
> 
> 
> I would think the full comp RS would be best ...as I would guess it requires the most balls to pull


Thanks. I appreciate the offer. I should probably take advantage of that, since most of my chains are .050. I'll let you know.


----------



## Four Paws

redbull660 said:


> I would think the full comp RS would be best ...as I would guess it requires the most balls to pull



AND many cutters to file  

Knowing Brad's luck, he'll find a nail on the first cut.


----------



## LowVolt

blsnelling said:


> I'm personally not interested in running anything longer than a 36" bar. If I'm going to do that, I'm grabbing the 084. Rory, any idea how big the log is? 30"-34" would be ideal.


I don't think it is that big. I need to get over there and measure it.


----------



## redbull660

you have 5 saws. IMHO, if your taking the time to round up the saws, and find proper wood for such a test, and the time to do the test(cuz it's going to take hours!! ...change bar, warm saw up, re-tension chain, check the tune, adjust/move wood over, etc etc)...you might as well use 5 new chains. One per saw.

If it can be managed, I'd use 2-4 different logs. Do 1 timed cut in each one. (log one probably smallest..."warm up log") That way the wood doesn't change very much. With 5 saws to test in the same wood, that would be one of my primary concerns.


I spent 3 hrs yesterday comparing 6 chains between 2 bars. This kind of stuff takes a lot of time.


----------



## porsche965

Sure sounds like a lot of work but alot of fun too.


----------



## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> It won't register on my Fast Tach Tiny Tach.


 I'll let you borrow my Stihl tach if needed.


----------



## Mike from Maine

blsnelling said:


> Meanwhile, about that MS661..... We had our church's Christmas dinner this evening, so had to leave for a few hours.
> 
> This saw runs fantastic! I think Stihl has a winner here. I can't wait to get some run time on it. It was almost dark when I finished putting it back together. A slapped the same B&C back on it that I used last time, only to remember that I had hit something and seriously dulled the chain. As dark as it was, it was either run it like it was, or wait until next week. I figured a dull chain was better than having to wait. You can still tell what the engine runs like, just don't watch the cutting speed, lol! I am very optimistic about this saw! The saw idles great, has great throttle response, and is holding great RPMs in the cut. Compression is 178 PSI. This is only the 5th cut this saw has made since new, so it's not broken in at all really.
> 
> I'll get another video next week with a proper chain on it.




Ah, the old dull chain.

You've got a stock one there right? How about a vid with them running the same chain?


(CSFT #95 and #104)


----------



## LowVolt

Wood is 26-27" in diameter. Not sure what type it is.


----------



## redfin

I agree with Josh. With the array of saws you are planning to test, some cants made from that log strapped would be best. If your gonna spend the time doing this put those boys to work like they were designed (and worked over) to do. 

36" full or skip on all is what I would like to see and I'm appreciative of your efforts. If you need chain, I will spring for one and send it. Good times!


----------



## Ray Bell

LowVolt said:


> Wood is 26-27" in diameter. Not sure what type it is.
> 
> View attachment 384942
> View attachment 384943
> View attachment 384944



Bark looks like cottonwood, but maybe not.


----------



## redbull660

send the saws to me, I'll do the test! Got oak and cherry. Cherry is approx 48" wide right now, but I can square her up so she'll fit a 36" bar nicely. ..can use the tsumura 36" bar and i'll provide the new RS chains.

I can get some RSLF as well.


Note - I have...

660R muff modded
660R Masterminded
661R Stock


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> Wood is 26-27" in diameter. Not sure what type it is.
> 
> View attachment 384942
> View attachment 384943
> View attachment 384944


That will work just fine Rory. We'll run the 32" Tsumura, since a 28" would possibly end up with the tip in the wood when you have loss from the dawgs. All saws will be run with the same bar and Stihl RS chain.


----------



## redoakneck

Wood looks like ash to me.


----------



## blsnelling

redoakneck said:


> Wood looks like ash to me.


That's what I thought as well.


----------



## Ron660

LowVolt said:


> Wood is 26-27" in diameter. Not sure what type it is.
> 
> View attachment 384942
> View attachment 384943
> View attachment 384944


Any leaves still on it? If I could see a leaf I'll tell you quick. I think it's a Hickory just from the bark.


----------



## LowVolt

Ron660 said:


> Any leaves still on it? If I could see a leaf I'll tell you quick. I think it's a Hickory just from the bark.


Nope. It has been down a couple years.


----------



## wigglesworth

Are we taking bets yet?


----------



## hseII

LowVolt said:


> Wood is 26-27" in diameter. Not sure what type it is.
> 
> View attachment 384942
> View attachment 384943
> View attachment 384944





Ray Bell said:


> Bark looks like cottonwood, but maybe not.


We call that Poplar here.... But I Concur


----------



## Mastermind

wigglesworth said:


> Are we taking bets yet?



Sure.......I bet on the Wiggs 660.


----------



## redbull660

LowVolt said:


> Nope. It has been down a couple years.



Yikes!!! IMHO seems like a lot of work, money, and time, to risk on a log that has been sitting on the ground for 2yrs. ie. if it's not concentric throughout sitting on the ground that long. Gotta be a better log or ideally logs plural


----------



## hseII

Mastermind said:


> Sure.......I bet on the Wiggs 660.


----------



## hseII

IDk about the Hooskees or that new fangled 661, but...
If they are hang with one of these,

They Must Be Strong


----------



## CR888

redbull660 said:


> send the saws to me, I'll do the test! Got oak and cherry. Cherry is approx 48" wide right now, but I can square her up so she'll fit a 36" bar nicely. ..can use the tsumura 36" bar and i'll provide the new RS chains.
> 
> I can get some RSLF as well.
> 
> 
> Note - I have...
> 
> 660R muff modded
> 660R Masterminded
> 661R Stock


l like it when fellas chip in to achieve things of common interest....tis what makes this place special.


----------



## wigglesworth

Mastermind said:


> Sure.......I bet on the Wiggs 660.



That saws an old clunker. My bet is on the stock 661!!


----------



## DarthTater

LowVolt said:


> Wood is 26-27" in diameter. Not sure what type it is.
> 
> View attachment 384942
> View attachment 384943
> View attachment 384944



Not a bad stick.

I need to get my butt up into the hills and nab a photo for you guys of the monster's I Cut on.

till then the best I can do is the Satellite photo I found the things with. (that should give ya an idea of how big they are....)

Both Are Blowdowns.

#1 is a White Cedar about 8-10' Dia at the stump
#2 is a Red Cedar about 10-12' Dia at the stump
Just estimates ive never measured the actual stump dia, but on #1 i'm still 50' up from the stump and cutting with a 28" bar from both sides I only have 1" of cut overlap, and #2 makes #1 look small.

hence why i'm needing both a longer bar for the 044 and needing to get a 661.....


----------



## porsche965

How is the porting coming Brad?


----------



## Mike from Maine

How's the chain sharpening going?


----------



## redoakneck

Mike from Maine said:


> How's the chain sharpening going?




Yep, Kinda easy to keep the rpm's up in the cut with a dull chain....


----------



## Chris-PA

On the topic of pop-up vs. flat tops - I was thinking today that all my Zenoah engines are domed piston. They seemed to have some knowledge about engines, so perhaps there is some benefit? 

The tops are not machined either, which made me think that it might be harder to control squish tolerances with a cast dome on the piston. A machined piston would be easier to control tolerances - of course you could turn a dome but it would be a PITA. 

Then too those transfer flow patterns across the piston top are only occurring for a short time as the piston is adjacent to the transfer opening. Is that significant?


----------



## stihlaficionado

porsche965 said:


> How is the porting coming Brad?


This is more important then the chains.


----------



## blsnelling

porsche965 said:


> How is the porting coming Brad?


I finished that up Saturday. I have not had a chance to sharpen the chain or make a new vid. Last night I had to get on the roof and re-caulk around the chimney. Tonight I had to install a garbage disposal. It might be the weekend before I get to it. Sorry guys. When you don't get home until 30 minutes before sunset, that doesn't leave much time.


----------



## syrupmaker70

That is a real nice saw! I don't know the specs on that saw.What size chain does it pull. Is this your first 660? If not how does it compare to other saws you have. Thanks


----------



## syrupmaker70

Daylight losing time sucks.


----------



## redoakneck

blsnelling said:


> I finished that up Saturday. I have not had a chance to sharpen the chain or make a new vid. Last night I had to get on the roof and re-caulk around the chimney. Tonight I had to install a garbage disposal. It might be the weekend before I get to it. Sorry guys. When you don't get home until 30 minutes before sunset, that doesn't leave much time.




Did you port the disposal??? I need mine ported as the wife has the idea that a complete watermelon rind and a full turkey carcass can be liquified down the drain!!!!

I think Tim the tool man had an episode where he "modified" the disposal. Make sure you punch out those plugs for the dish washer return!!!!!


----------



## blsnelling

redoakneck said:


> Make sure you punch out those plugs for the dish washer return!!!!!


Got it


----------



## redoakneck

blsnelling said:


> Got it




ask me how I know!!!! What a mess, won,t make that mistake again


----------



## wyk




----------



## blsnelling

I've got 395 parts to clean, but first things first  I got the Tsumura T&L bar in the mail today, along with a new loop of Stihl RS chain. Here she is, still on her first tank of fuel.



Here's my 390XP, different B&C, although the exact same specs. This chain has been filed.


The MS661 isn't going to equal the 390XP, but I think it probably has the edge in torque, especially considering it has almost no run time on it. I'll know more when we get them in the same wood with cut times all the way through the log.


----------



## dave53223

redoakneck said:


> Did you port the disposal??? I need mine ported as the wife has the idea that a complete watermelon rind and a full turkey carcass can be liquified down the drain!!!!
> 
> I think Tim the tool man had an episode where he "modified" the disposal. Make sure you punch out those plugs for the dish washer return!!!!!


You need the ss-1000 10 hp unit. It comes with its own legs.

http://www.insinkerator.com/en-us/Documents/Foodservice/SS300_to_SS1000_spec_sheet.pdf


----------



## Trx250r180

That wood looks pretty hard


----------



## redbull660

Trx250r180 said:


> That wood looks pretty hard



That's what She said!


----------



## Trx250r180

redbull660 said:


> That's what She said!


Don't you have a new saw to get dirty .................


----------



## redbull660

yeah I put 4 tanks through the 661R today. It's uhh reallly nice!!! Very smooth. Lots of torque. Can't wait to get another 11 tanks through it and put it up against the 660R.


----------



## sw oh logger

blsnelling said:


> I've got 395 parts to clean, but first things first  I got the Tsumura T&L bar in the mail today, along with a new loop of Stihl RS chain. Here she is, still on her first tank of fuel.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my 390XP, different B&C, although the exact same specs. This chain has been filed.
> 
> 
> The MS661 isn't going to equal the 390XP, but I think it probably has the edge in torque, especially considering it has almost no run time on it. I'll know more when we get them in the same wood with cut times all the way through the log.



Brad, your 661 looks like a great one! Impressive how fast it's cutting that dry white ash when it's that tight yet. Ash is really only average density but very dry when already cut. In hardwoods your modded 661 would be a demon with a 24" or 28" b&c in bigger wood. You're going to make a lot of people sick of their 660s!


----------



## whitedogone

blsnelling said:


> I finished that up Saturday. I have not had a chance to sharpen the chain or make a new vid. Last night I had to get on the roof and re-caulk around the chimney. Tonight I had to install a garbage disposal. It might be the weekend before I get to it. Sorry guys. When you don't get home until 30 minutes before sunset, that doesn't leave much time.


 
Well, that was a waste of time


----------



## mopar1rules

That 390 sounds to hold rpms better in the cut vs the 661. Of course the 661 has no run time or break in time on it yet. Brad, what is the cranking psi of them saws? Care to share what you did to the 661?


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> I've got 395 parts to clean, but first things first  I got the Tsumura T&L bar in the mail today, along with a new loop of Stihl RS chain. Here she is, still on her first tank of fuel.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my 390XP, different B&C, although the exact same specs. This chain has been filed.
> 
> 
> The MS661 isn't going to equal the 390XP, but I think it probably has the edge in torque, especially considering it has almost no run time on it. I'll know more when we get them in the same wood with cut times all the way through the log.




How's the "other" one coming


----------



## blsnelling

Trx250r180 said:


> That wood looks pretty hard


It's dead Ash.


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> How's the "other" one coming


I'll be doing it Saturday.


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> I'll be doing it Saturday.


Thank you, Sir


----------



## blsnelling

mopar1rules said:


> That 390 sounds to hold rpms better in the cut vs the 661. Of course the 661 has no run time or break in time on it yet. Brad, what is the cranking psi of them saws? Care to share what you did to the 661?


I would have been shocked if the 661 made the RPMs of a 390XP. They are simply insane the way they run. Compression on this 661 was 178. I don't recall what the 390XP is, but it's under 200 PSI.


----------



## mopar1rules

blsnelling said:


> I would have been shocked if the 661 made the RPMs of a 390XP. They are simply insane the way they run. Compression on this 661 was 178. I don't recall what the 390XP is, but it's under 200 PSI.


Healthy comp on both saws. Curious what the 661 goes up to as more run time gets on it. I never ran a 390 but it seems i may have to find one to rip on. Lol. So, what is squish on both saws? You care to reveal what you did to the 661? Popup? Machine base? Port timing? Ignition timing advance? One thing for sure is that you surely can lean on that 661 more and the chain stays going, instead of it just falling on its face and the chain stopping.


----------



## blsnelling

mopar1rules said:


> Healthy comp on both saws. Curious what the 661 goes up to as more run time gets on it. I never ran a 390 but it seems i may have to find one to rip on. Lol. So, what is squish on both saws? You care to reveal what you did to the 661? Popup? Machine base? Port timing? Ignition timing advance? One thing for sure is that you surely can lean on that 661 more and the chain stays going, instead of it just falling on its face and the chain stopping.


That's back in the thread somewhere.


----------



## Ron660

390xp looked a lot faster. Good job. Yea that wood did look very hard.


----------



## mopar1rules

What is? I didn't see anything posted and i went thru all 35 pages.


----------



## blsnelling

mopar1rules said:


> What is? I didn't see anything posted and i went thru all 35 pages.


The port timing is there somewhere.


----------



## hseII

mopar1rules said:


> So, what is squish on both saws? You care to reveal what you did to the 661? Popup? Machine base? Port timing? Ignition timing advance?.



What is popup for $200 Alex?

BRad don't do No Stinkin' Bases


----------



## blsnelling

hseII said:


> What is popup for $200 Alex?
> 
> BRad don't do No Stinkin' Bases


You can't do a popup without cutting the base.


----------



## hseII

blsnelling said:


> You can't do a popup without cutting the base.


I's Just Teasin' Brad


----------



## wigglesworth

Both them saws Pop-ups B-rad?


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> Both them saws Pop-ups B-rad?


I think my 390 has a cut squish band. The ones I build with a popup run the same.


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> I think my 390 has a cut squish band. The ones I build with a popup run the same.



No wonder the 390 is faster. Hahaha. 


So you've ran the 390 both ways, pop-up and cut squish, side by side, same wood , same B&C?


----------



## wigglesworth




----------



## pro94lt

Nice running 390 huskeevarna


----------



## Full Chisel

Both great running saws. But those modded 390s are animals!


----------



## Ron660

Full Chisel said:


> Both great running saws. But those modded 390s are animals!


I agree. Think I'm buying a Husky (390 that is)!


----------



## blsnelling

Full Chisel said:


> Both great running saws. But those modded 390s are animals!


Yes, they are. I would be shocked for most ANY other saw to outperform one in this size wood. No other saw of this size makes the RPMs a 390 does. For that matter, a 372 would likely be faster in this size wood. 36" wood would probably favor the 661.


----------



## Full Chisel

I was thinking the same, the Stihl seems to have a wider powerband with better torque but damn...that husky just screams.


----------



## blsnelling

Honestly, I'm more interested in how the 661 compares to the 395. If it can make the torque of the 395, it might just be my new stumping saw. A 395 definitely has more torque than a 390, but the 390 would definitely out cut it in this wood. I want a saw that I can put my hip against and muscle through a stump. That's hard work and calls for a saw with lots of torque.


----------



## Ron660

blsnelling said:


> Honestly, I'm more interested in how the 661 compares to the 395. If it can make the torque of the 395, it might just be my new stumping saw. A 395 definitely has more torque than a 390, but the 390 would definitely out cut it in this wood. I want a saw that I can put my hip against and muscle through a stump. That's hard work and calls for a saw with lots of torque.


Good idea. Put a 395 in the mix.


----------



## blsnelling

Ron660 said:


> Good idea. Put a 395 in the mix.


I will be, as well as a ported 660 that Wiggs built.


----------



## wigglesworth

wigglesworth said:


> So you've ran the 390 both ways, pop-up and cut squish, side by side, same wood , same B&C?



Bump...


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> Bump...


That's not what this thread is about, and is certainly not needed to make a crazy strong 390XP.


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> That's not what this thread is about, and is certainly not needed to make a crazy strong 390XP.



Oh, come on brad...

Yall been talking 390xp's the whole last page. Lol. 

You can't honestly say they run the same if you've never compared em side by side, no?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Isn't cuttin the squish band more favorable to guys that may need to replace a piston but dont have access to a lathe ?..given they run the same ?


----------



## MustangMike

Where is the dyno when we need one! The power curves would be very interesting, I'm sure! And a Wiggs 660, this gona be fun!!!

Hey, maybe get a Smittybilt one too, I know what they run like!


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> That's not what this thread is about, and is certainly not needed to make a crazy strong 390XP.



No way you can make a 390XP run with a popup like I can with a cut squish. 

The exhaust is too high, and needs to come down. 

I'm gonna have to call ******** on that Brad. 

That's like saying a 660 with a popup can run like a 660 with the squish cut.


----------



## wigglesworth

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Isn't cuttin the squish band more favorable to guys that may need to replace a piston but dont have access to a lathe ?..given they run the same ?



I don't believe they run the same...


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

wigglesworth said:


> I don't believe they run the same...



I have no dog in that fight , i have a few with pop ups and a few with the squish cut and they all run good..i was just speakin for the users who dont have a lathe..the benefits of cutting the squish band are more favorable for the average guy who cant just spin a pop up if need be..aside from the performance you guys say is there.


----------



## MustangMike

It's getting hot in the kitchen, I just want to see the saws!

But I've been warned to never bet against Wiggs ... so I won't!


----------



## wigglesworth

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I have no dog in that fight , i have a few with pop ups and a few with the squish cut and they all run good..i was just speakin for the users who dont have a lathe..the benefits of cutting the squish band are more favorable for the average guy who can just spin a pop up if need be..aside from the performance you guys say is there.



Agreed.


----------



## DarthTater

blsnelling said:


> I've got 395 parts to clean, but first things first  I got the Tsumura T&L bar in the mail today, along with a new loop of Stihl RS chain. Here she is, still on her first tank of fuel.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my 390XP, different B&C, although the exact same specs. This chain has been filed.
> 
> 
> The MS661 isn't going to equal the 390XP, but I think it probably has the edge in torque, especially considering it has almost no run time on it. I'll know more when we get them in the same wood with cut times all the way through the log.



Nice! & that 390xp runs like something else, revs to the moon from the sound of it.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

wigglesworth said:


> Agreed.



I understand pistons arent somethin your changin every 90 days.

But **** happens now and then.

speed or not , just from a practical standpoint..cuttin the squish makes sense to me.. even if it was slower..idk..i guess the proof will be in brads pudding .


----------



## wigglesworth

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I understand pistons arent somethin your changin every 90 days.
> 
> But **** happens now and then.
> 
> speed or not , just from a practical standpoint..cuttin the squish makes sense to me.. even if it was slower..idk..i guess the proof will be in brads pudding .



Yep. My 365 I lost a piston to due to crank bearing failure. Just had to slap another one in there. Crap happens....

I hope to see all the test saws make a speed cut, then all of em dawged in and levered on. Only true way to see power in a video...


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

wigglesworth said:


> Yep. My 365 I lost a piston to due to crank bearing failure. Just had to slap another one in there. Crap happens....
> 
> I hope to see all the test saws make a speed cut, then all of em dawged in and levered on. Only true way to see power in a video...



I could add to that speed vs torque thing..stumpy cut the squishy band on my 2172..prior to that all i heard was how "bad" OE 372's were...and they are..but..i had a ported OE 372 done by "another guy" with a pop-up and im sure it was faster on them square things with guys watchin that had stopwatches in hand..but after that 2172 got loose it certainly had more torque..apples to oranges i suppose..


----------



## Tnshaker

I have to agree with that last statement...I had 4 different OE 372's by differnt builders and they would kill the 372 xtorques in a little square can't.....but put a 24" or bigger bar on it and put some weight on it and it was a totally different story. Sorry to derail.....


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Tnshaker said:


> I have to agree with that last statement...I had 4 different OE 372's by differnt builders and they would kill the 372 xtorques in a little square can't.....but put a 24" or bigger bar on it and put some weight on it and it was a totally different story. Sorry to derail.....



Spot on in my eyes too mang..stratos are slugs til after a few gallons..i personally think my 2172 would have a OE's lunch with 28" in some hard wood.


----------



## Tnshaker

Back on the 661...I really like mine....I just stock for now. I prefer the smooth broad torque it seems to have over say a 2188/390. Of course the day before I was running a 395 that was ported buried with a 36". That baby would not win any race against anything in under 30" wood.....but bury the bar and only the clutch was the limiting factor....


----------



## Tnshaker

Totally agree with u Ryan....put a 28" on that 2172 bury the bar with a little muscle and those little OE 372 would get smacked around


----------



## Andyshine77

It sure seems Y'all Stihl heads are ready to call this one a loss. 

And we get it. Pop ups suck, pop ups suck, pop ups suck pop ups suck, pop ups suck!!!


----------



## AKDoug

ups suck pop ????


----------



## Stihl working hard

stihlaficionado said:


> Thank you, Sir


Not long until you get your new baby


----------



## Mike from Maine

Maybe I missed it... But where is the comparison video of that _stock_ 661 you've got there vs the _ported _661???


----------



## blsnelling

The 390 does not need the exhaust lowered like the 660 does to run good. The exhaust on my 390 is at 96°. A popup is a valuable tool if you need to get the exhaust down our more compression than you can get with a popup. Neither are the case here. A tiny .035" bump does not kill performance.

I don't know why you guys are bent on turning this into a popup vs squishband discussion. Essentially, your trying to turn this into a builder vs builder thing. I'm doing everything I can to not take this there. How about helping me do that?

Popup are not the only thing we do differently. Our build styles are very different. Why can't we leave it at that?

Meet Christmas. How about that 661!


----------



## hseII

Get everything ready and Run 'Em; let's see where the 661 falls.

Let's be civil everyone; and I'm not talking concrete pouring


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> The 390 does not need the exhaust lowered like the 660 does to run good. The exhaust on my 390 is at 96°. A popup is a valuable tool if you need to get the exhaust down our more compression than you can get with a popup. Neither are the case here. A tiny .035" bump does not kill performance.
> 
> I don't know why you guys are bent on turning this into a popup vs squishband discussion. Essentially, your trying to turn this into a builder vs builder thing. I'm doing everything I can to not take this there. How about helping me do that?
> 
> Popup are not the only thing we do differently. Our build styles are very different. Why can't we leave it at that?
> 
> Meet Christmas. How about that 661!




No since in getting all riled up, brad.

All I've ever shared on this site is my own personal experience. Things I have witnessed, built, destroyed, tested, etc, etc...

You praise your 390, and rightly so. It's fast. Was real fast with a race chain at my last gtg u were at. Nothing would touch it in the 6 cube class. 

But it's built totally different than the others you do, and you've never compared the two side by side, same B&C, same wood, yada, yada, yada? I just don't understand how you can say they run the same, that's all.

Your welcome to spin pop-ups all you want my friend. We've talked, I gave you my experience vs the two different methods. I know what I've seen and witnessed. 

But please don't make statements that you haven't actually tested. Who knows, you may be 100% right. Your Pop-up 390's may just walk the dog on your squish banded 390. And to be honest, at this point, I hope they do. I've been wrong before, and it won't kill me to be wrong again...

Sorry for the thread derailment. I'll not clutter it up anymore....


----------



## blsnelling

I simply don't understand why this needs to be in this thread, which is about the 661. I'm not the one that brought up the topic. I have my experiences and reasons as well, and they don't all point to a squishband built saw being better. I refuse to get into all those details. I'm not interested in a me vs you or a me vs anyone debate. I'm simply saying that a cut squishband is absolutely not needed to make a 390 run like mine. I've built enough to know that. No, they're not totally unlike mine, as suggested. The only difference is a little .035" bump on the crown of the piston. I know how my saws run. Why call me riled up? I'm simply replying to the accusations you brought to me, in a thread where they don't belong. This horse is dead.


----------



## hseII

blsnelling said:


> I simply don't understand why this needs to be in this thread, which is about the 661. I'm not the one that brought up the topic. I have my experiences and reasons as well, and they don't all point to a squishband built saw being better. I refuse to get into all those details. I'm not interested in a me vs you or a me vs anyone debate. I'm simply saying that a cut squishband is absolutely not needed to make a 390 run like mine. I've built enough to know that. No, they're not totally unlike mine, as suggested. The only difference is a little .035" bump on the crown of the piston. I know how my saws run. Why call me riled up? I'm simply replying to the accusations you brought to me, in a thread where they don't belong. This horse is dead.



Brad, did y'all find the wood?

When will we get to see them run?
I wanna See It!!  

Did y'all decide on what kinda chain, bar length, Yada, Yada, Yada?

Run 'Em


----------



## Mike from Maine

Seriously, am I on ignore for all of AS?


When did 'I forgot I hit something with the chain' become an acceptable excuse when comparing stock vs ported saw gains???

Just post an unedited video of the two 661's running the same chain. I don't see the problem with that, unless the ported one is slower then stock?


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> I'm simply saying that a cut squishband is absolutely not needed to make a 390 run like mine.



Maybe your right. Maybe not...

Im stopping now. Seriously. I'm done. 

Sorry...


----------



## blsnelling

We have the wood and the saws. It's a matter of finding the time when we can both get together and do it. Time is such a precious commodity. We have not set a date, but we're working on it.


----------



## hseII

blsnelling said:


> We have the wood and the saws. It's a matter of finding the time when we can both get together and do it. Time is such a precious commodity. We have not set a date, but we're working on it.


10 4


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> Maybe your right. Maybe not...
> 
> Im stopping now. Seriously. I'm done.
> 
> Sorry...


We have different opinions. I'm ok with that. But I really, really, really don't want to argue, especially in a public setting. It doesn't do anyone any good. You guys are my friends! I want to keep it that way!


----------



## Mastermind

I'll go away too. 

But I'll first remind you that your fast in the cant, with a race chain, 96° exhaust, 390XP was far from fast with a long bar. That is the point I make, and you always miss. 

Good day sir. 

Unsubscribing.


----------



## blsnelling

I'm not missing that at all. There were no 390s winning that race. Just like our build styles differ, so do our build requirements. You're more focused on max torque. I'll compromise a *little* torque for more RPMs. That's what I like and want.

More than anything else, we MUST stay cordial! I desperately don't want our relationship to go backwards.


----------



## hseII

Both of y'all make saws run stronger.

Let's Go Get a Cold One


----------



## blsnelling




----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

blsnelling said:


> Just like our build styles differ, so do our build requirements. You're more focused on max torque. I'll compromise a *little* torque for more RPMs. That's what I like and want.



That's exactly my impression when I see your vids and those from Randy. 
But let's go back to the 661, I want to see it against a strong ported 395, now, this 661 seems to have a lot of torque, but maybe not enough to beat a 395 with a long bar!


----------



## blsnelling

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> But let's go back to the 661, I want to see it against a strong ported 395, now, this 661 seems to have a lot of torque, but maybe not enough to beat a 395 with a long bar!


That's what I want to find out too. I'd love to have a more modern equivalent to the venerable 395.


----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

blsnelling said:


> That's what I want to find out too. I'd love to have a more modern equivalent to the venerable 395.



You have both of them, a ported 395 and a ported 661. What's your feeling about them? Do you think the 661 could be a winner?


----------



## Stihl working hard

blsnelling said:


> We have the wood and the saws. It's a matter of finding the time when we can both get together and do it. Time is such a precious commodity. We have not set a date, but we're working on it.


I think this time of the year is awkward I think everyone is a little time poor just my 2 cents worth


----------



## blsnelling

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You have both of them, a ported 395 and a ported 661. What's your feeling about them? Do you think the 661 could be a winner?


My 395 is still on its 1st or 2nd tank as well. I don't have enough run time on either to answer that. I'll be levering them both hard when I run them together. I'm not only interested in cut times, but how hard I can push them. That's my particular interest in this class of saws, much more so than others.


----------



## mdavlee

Strap those puppies on a mill and mill some cants.


----------



## Four Paws

mdavlee said:


> Strap those puppies on a mill and mill some cants.



Yeah! Four 18x18 cants. Each saw can mill one. Then strap said cants together and cut.


----------



## blsnelling

Four Paws said:


> Yeah! Four 18x18 cants. Each saw can mill one. Then strap said cants together and cut.


Would be nice, but don't have that kind of time.


----------



## Full Chisel

Ladies, please. This is a chainsaw forum, let's not turn it into a soap opera 

Well ported saws run good, end of story. That 661 is a job well done, no matter how it stacks up in a cut by tenths of a second. The throttle response is very impressive. Nice job, Brad. I don't need side by side videos to know that saw runs solid and does it's job well...


----------



## Four Paws

blsnelling said:


> Would be nice, but don't have that kind of time.



R&D is a big investment.


----------



## Ron660

Full Chisel said:


> Ladies, please. This is a chainsaw forum, let's not turn it into a soap opera
> 
> Well ported saws run good, end of story. That 661 is a job well done, no matter how it stacks up in a cut by tenths of a second. The throttle response is very impressive. Nice job, Brad. I don't need side by side videos to know that saw runs solid and does it's job well...


Speed is fun to watch and talk about but dependability is why I bought a Pro Saw. Loggers down my way never mention speed only how long a saw lasts.


----------



## blsnelling

Ron660 said:


> Speed is fun to watch and talk about but dependability is why I bought a Pro Saw. Loggers down my way never mention speed only how long a saw lasts.


Why not have both?!


----------



## Moparmyway

blsnelling said:


> Why not have both?!


Anyone can have both .............. just get an MS661  

On a small side note, when any thread starts getting de-railed, the OP can set the tone by just ignoring the derail in the forum and sending the response in a PM.
If the OP doesn't mind the derail, then the OP posts the answer.

Its of little use to respond to the derail  then ask to stay on track - that's just inviting the wreck


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

On a side note..the 661 wasnt on stihls website this morning when i looked


----------



## blsnelling

SAWMIKAZE said:


> On a side note..the 661 wasnt on stihls website this morning when i looked


That's odd. They're probably working on the site.


----------



## Trx250r180

SAWMIKAZE said:


> On a side note..the 661 wasnt on stihls website this morning when i looked


http://en.stihl.ca/STIHL-Products/C...n-saws-for-forestry/22281-130/MS-661-C-M.aspx


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> http://en.stihl.ca/STIHL-Products/C...n-saws-for-forestry/22281-130/MS-661-C-M.aspx


Those LW bars are high!!!


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

http://m.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/


----------



## blsnelling

hseII said:


> Those LW bars are high!!!


But only $45 more for the 32" isn't bad at all. They're like $150 alone.


----------



## Trx250r180

try stihl.ca ,canadian site has them up


----------



## KG441c

hseII said:


> Those LW bars are high!!!



I just paid 142 for the es light from the dealer on the 461 in the middle. That was with tax and shipping


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Trx250r180 said:


> try stihl.ca ,canadian site has them up



They had em on mine last week..even up til yesterday..got me ?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

KG441c said:


> View attachment 385908
> I just paid 142 for the es light from the dealer on the 461 in the middle. That was with tax and shipping



Nice balance on those 28" lights eh' keith ?


----------



## KG441c

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Nice balance on those 28" lights eh' keith ?




Oh ya!! I love it!


----------



## hseII

KG441c said:


> View attachment 385908
> I just paid 142 for the es light from the dealer on the 461 in the middle. That was with tax and shipping


That was more than I paid for the 41" 404." from my dealer... They must be REAL nice...


----------



## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> That was more than I paid for the 41" 404." from my dealer... They must be REAL nice...


Real nice on the back is more like it


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Real nice on the back is more like it


O


----------



## KG441c

Trx250r180 said:


> Real nice on the back is more like it


Heck ya!! Its worth a few more $$$ just in that aspect!!


----------



## Trx250r180

best way i can describe is a 32 light feels about as nose heavy as a reg 25 inch bar ,and a 28 inch light feels closer to a 20 inch reg bar in nose dive ,at least with oregon lights ,i only have 1 stihl light it feels pretty close to the 32 inch oregon on the saw ,just a little stiffer


----------



## tacomatrd98

Trx250r180 said:


> best way i can describe is a 32 light feels about as nose heavy as a reg 25 inch bar ,and a 28 inch light feels closer to a 20 inch reg bar in nose dive ,at least with oregon lights ,i only have 1 stihl light it feels pretty close to the 32 inch oregon on the saw ,just a little stiffer


You're right on. If anything, I think my 441 feels better/lighter with a 28" ES light than a regular 20" on it. I just wish they would make a ES Light in a 20/22/25 for my smaller saws. They will get with the program someday I hope.


----------



## Ron660

I concur. The posts I've read here conclude porting doesn't decrease the dependability of a saw. The Dealer doesn't like seeing a "ported sticker" on the saw if warranty work is needed.


----------



## Time's Standing Stihl

SAWMIKAZE said:


> http://m.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/



Now its off both sites.....wtf???


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Time's Standing Stihl said:


> Now its off both sites.....wtf???



I dont care now..i have one


----------



## stihlaficionado

Time's Standing Stihl said:


> Now its off both sites.....wtf???


Probably just updating the info, though you'd think they'd use a mirror server

I looked at the 461 about an hour ago & it lost 1/10 of a hp to 5.9 now


----------



## Mike from Maine

Here's the 661 specs on a dealer page

https://creeksidesalesandservice.stihldealer.net/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms661rcm/


----------



## KG441c

stihlaficionado said:


> Probably just updating the info, though you'd think they'd use a mirror server
> 
> I looked at the 461 about an hour ago & it lost 1/10 of a hp to 5.9 now


My 461 does 7.2hp @ 10500!!.


----------



## LowVolt

KG441c said:


> My 461 does 7.2hp @ 10500!!.



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/cheers-smiley.267824/

You're welcome.....


----------



## albert

hseII said:


> That was more than I paid for the 41" 404." from my dealer... They must be REAL nice...



Why are the long large mount stihl bars relatively cheap compared to others?


----------



## KG441c

LowVolt said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/cheers-smiley.267824/
> 
> You're welcome.....


Lol!! Cool!


----------



## albert

Why would one want to port a large heavy saw that needs to be babbied with a 32" or larger bar?


----------



## hseII

albert said:


> Why would one want to port a large heavy saw that needs to be babbied with a 32" or larger bar?





I believe you are mistaken


The saw that the 661 is replacing...


----------



## Ron660

KG441c said:


> View attachment 385908
> I just paid 142 for the es light from the dealer on the 461 in the middle. That was with tax and shipping


All you need to add to your collection is a 661R...ported that is.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Mike from Maine said:


> Here's the 661 specs on a dealer page
> 
> https://creeksidesalesandservice.stihldealer.net/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms661rcm/



I like the review better than the saw


----------



## Trx250r180

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I like the review better than the saw


Hahahahahahahahahhaah


----------



## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> I believe you are mistaken
> 
> 
> The saw that the 661 is replacing...



Replacing ??? I can not be your friend anymore ........


----------



## big t double

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I like the review better than the saw


I gave it a yes on the was it helpful line.


----------



## Mike from Maine

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I like the review better than the saw





Trx250r180 said:


> Hahahahahahahahahhaah





big t double said:


> I gave it a yes on the was it helpful line.



Stihl USA has made me a 'top 250 contributor' because they like my reviews so much.

I think they really appreciate my ms362 is awesome!!! message.


----------



## big t double

Mike from Maine said:


> Stihl USA has made me a 'top 250 contributor' because they like my reviews so much.
> 
> I think they really appreciate my ms362 is awesome!!! message.


I noticed that. That's awesome. I assume the fine folks at Stihl don't read this site much hahaha.


----------



## KenJax Tree

big t double said:


> I gave it a yes on the was it helpful line.


Ditto


----------



## stihlaficionado

KG441c said:


> My 461 does 7.2hp @ 10500!!.


So Andreas made this saw himself?


----------



## mdavlee

stihlaficionado said:


> So Andreas made this saw himself?


Almost but not quite. It was monkey tuned


----------



## Ron660

big t double said:


> I noticed that. That's awesome. I assume the fine folks at Stihl don't read this site much hahaha.


I use to think my Stihl "Gold" dealer was a smart guy until I joined this site.


----------



## porsche965

KG441c said:


> My 461 does 7.2hp @ 10500!!.




Wow. I bet that feels great!


----------



## sawfun

Madsens dyno'd three 461's when they first came out and got about a 1/2 horse more out of each over the 460 stock for stock. Something on the order of 6.5 horse I believe. If the 661 follows suit, it will have a good bit more power than is advertised.


----------



## porsche965

If nothing else the Mtronics just feel like they have more HP than the previous stated same models. I can't imagine Stihl not coming out with the Mtronics package on the 461. Then they could drop the 441c. Maybe?


----------



## stihlaficionado

porsche965 said:


> If nothing else the Mtronics just feel like they have more HP than the previous stated same models. I can't imagine Stihl not coming out with the Mtronics package on the 461. Then they could drop the 441c. Maybe?


 Heck no. keep the 441.


----------



## porsche965

stihlaficionado said:


> Heck no. keep the 441.



I love my 441c but it just seems like Stihl has one too many saws in the 70cc range. But that's just me.


----------



## porsche965

The 661 feels better balanced with a 28" bar than the 441c and equal in weight, even though it weighs more. ?? I have a 36" Light bar coming and that will be interesting to compare. The 441 is one cutting machine with a 20" bar. The 661 I'm staying with 28-36" bars for goonies.


----------



## Ron660

sawfun said:


> Madsens dyno'd three 461's when they first came out and got about a 1/2 horse more out of each over the 460 stock for stock. Something on the order of 6.5 horse I believe. If the 661 follows suit, it will have a good bit more power than is advertised.


Advertised specs mean nothing at least with the 660. The dyno results I saw put the stock 660 at 5.9HP not 7.1 as advertised. But after porting it was over 8HP. I know, it was my saw!


----------



## Deleted member 83629

would it be much of a power difference if you were to use 87 instead of 93 pump gas.


----------



## KG441c

My 461 went to Tennessee at 1-800- monkeysurgery. They use bananas for antibiotics after surgery


----------



## sawfun

I think Stihl has the two saws in the 70cc range is to have the new stuff and the old school stuff. The PNW loggers around here are not fond of the feel and power curve of the 441 so the 461 satisfies that market. Since the wood is smaller than it used to be years ago, a 70cc saw makes sense.


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Replacing ??? I can not be your friend anymore ........


Talk to Stihl
Mine isn't going anywhere I don't go


----------



## hseII

Ron660 said:


> I use to think my Stihl "Gold" dealer was a smart guy until I joined this site.


Same Here. 

He still is


----------



## hseII

porsche965 said:


> The 661 feels better balanced with a 28" bar than the 441c and equal in weight, even though it weighs more. ?? I have a 36" Light bar coming and that will be interesting to compare. The 441 is one cutting machine with a 20" bar. The 661 I'm staying with 28-36" bars for goonies.


What's a Goonie?


----------



## Officer's Match

porsche965 said:


> If nothing else the Mtronics just feel like they have more HP than the previous stated same models. I can't imagine Stihl not coming out with the Mtronics package on the 461. Then they could drop the 441c. Maybe?


Only if the 461 got spring av and the superior filtration of the 441.


----------



## porsche965

The tree service calls any wood brought back to the wood lot that is 40" diameter and more chunked 8 to 12' long, Goonies.

Great for 90cc and up being all hardwood.


----------



## blsnelling

porsche965 said:


> The tree service calls any wood brought back to the wood lot that is 40" diameter and more chunked 8 to 12' long, Goonies.
> 
> Great for 90cc and up being all hardwood.


I could sure use some of that wood!


----------



## hseII

blsnelling said:


> I could sure use some of that wood!


Do you have any tree service customers or buddies?
Maybe they could drop a couple at your place....


----------



## redfin

mdavlee said:


> Strap those puppies on a mill and mill some cants.





Four Paws said:


> Yeah! Four 18x18 cants. Each saw can mill one. Then strap said cants together and cut.



Great minds.


----------



## mdavlee

redfin said:


> Great minds.


You can use up to a gallon of fuel about evert 4 or 5 cuts milling. That's about an hour of actual WOT run time. It will break one in quick that way.


----------



## Officer's Match

blsnelling said:


> I could sure use some of that wood!



That's what _she_ said.


----------



## redbull660

porsche965 said:


> The 661 feels better balanced with a 28" bar than the 441c and equal in weight, even though it weighs more. ?? I have a 36" Light bar coming and that will be interesting to compare. The 441 is one cutting machine with a 20" bar. The 661 I'm staying with 28-36" bars for goonies.



The key thing I found with all the bars I had. It wasn't always about the weight. It was mostly about the balance.

For example I like the 28 light bar on the 660 a little more than the 461. But I definitely like the regular 28" weight bar better on the 461 than on the 660. 28 regular weight just balances way nicer on the 461. 

I now look at saw+bar combo as if it 

A. feels like a brick?
B feels like a pole? 

461 28 regular pole
660 28 regular brick 

all about the pivot point of the saw bar combo IMHO. 

and the above is why i couldn't stand the 20 or even 24" bars and even the light bars (they were better) on the 660. The 28 light bars on the 660 is the ticket baby! 24 light or 28 light or 28 regular on the 441 461 size IMHO.


----------



## redfin

redbull660 said:


> The key thing I found with all the bars I had. It wasn't always about the weight. It was mostly about the balance. All about the pivot point of the saw bar combo IMHO.



Agreed. A 28" lite on a 660 is about perfect even though its about same weight as a 20es.


----------



## Ron660

KG441c said:


> My 461 went to Tennessee at 1-800- monkeysurgery. They use bananas for antibiotics after surgery


If you keep feeding that 461 a steady diet of vitamins (Motul 800 2T off-road at 32:1) he'll be fine. Just occasionally mix some banana oil with the bar lube.


----------



## Ron660

redfin said:


> Agreed. A 28" lite on a 660 is about perfect even though its about same weight as a 20es.


 I have a regular 28"ES bar on my 660. Maybe I need to try a 28 or 32" ES light. Extra weight adds up quick after a few tanks of fuel.


----------



## KG441c

Ron660 said:


> I have a regular 28"ES bar on my 660. Maybe I need to try a 28 or 32" ES light. Extra weight adds up quick after a few tanks of fuel.


We can put the 28 es light on the 660 next time u r down so u can get a feel for it


----------



## redbull660

Ron660 said:


> I have a regular 28"ES bar on my 660. Maybe I need to try a 28 or 32" ES light. Extra weight adds up quick after a few tanks of fuel.



email dave and get a 28" tsumura. ES light is good as well. Close to same price when u figure in sales tax and driving.


I've tried it several time with the 28" regular weight bars. I'll do a tank or 2 on the 660 and be like this sucks! lol Then I'll put the 28 tsumura on and I'll go another 4 tanks no problem. It's amazing how a shift in balance (cuz the weight savings is probably around 1lb only) makes a giant difference.


----------



## mdavlee

Ron660 said:


> I have a regular 28"ES bar on my 660. Maybe I need to try a 28 or 32" ES light. Extra weight adds up quick after a few tanks of fuel.


I have both of those sizes I would part with. I want to make an order of the tsumura after new years and was going to sell the ones I have.


----------



## Ron660

redbull660 said:


> email dave and get a 28" tsumura. ES light is good as well. Close to same price when u figure in sales tax and driving.
> 
> 
> I've tried it several time with the 28" regular weight bars. I'll do a tank or 2 on the 660 and be like this sucks! lol Then I'll put the 28 tsumura on and I'll go another 4 tanks no problem. It's amazing how a shift in balance (cuz the weight savings is probably around 1lb only) makes a giant difference.


 Does the Tsumura weight close to an ES light in both 28" bars? Tsumura are also the Total brand of bars?


----------



## Ron660

mdavlee said:


> I have both of those sizes I would part with. I want to make an order of the tsumura after new years and was going to sell the ones I have.


Good deal. PM sent.


----------



## redbull660

Ron660 said:


> Does the Tsumura weight close to an ES light in both 28" bars? Tsumura are also the Total brand of bars?



stats and pics are here my man ... http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bar-data-picture-thread.265892/

if I remember right the difference is a few oz. But it's pretty tough to discern the difference, I think because they both balance exceptionally well. 

Yup Tsumura makes Total. But Total is a solid bar.


----------



## Ron660

redbull660 said:


> stats and pics are here my man ... http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bar-data-picture-thread.265892/
> 
> if I remember right the difference is a few oz. But it's pretty tough to discern the difference, I think because they both balance exceptionally well.
> 
> Yup Tsumura makes Total. But Total is a solid bar.


 Good deal. Yes they're very close in weight. Thanks for that post on all the bars.


----------



## porsche965

Just picked up a 36 stihl light bar and chains. Had the oiler turned up on the 661. Now where are those Goonies!


----------



## Ron660

redbull660 said:


> stats and pics are here my man ... http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bar-data-picture-thread.265892/
> 
> if I remember right the difference is a few oz. But it's pretty tough to discern the difference, I think because they both balance exceptionally well.
> 
> Yup Tsumura makes Total. But Total is a solid bar.


 So you prefer the 3/4 wrap handle on the 660? I'm considering getting one.


----------



## redbull660

I prefer the 660R. cuz it's like what $30 more? and you get the wrap and HO oiler and large clutch cover. Stihl should only make 661R and 660R Just sayin! 

If nothing else I'd get the R model for the HO oiler and or large clutch cover. Sell the handle if you don't like it. Buy a used regular one and paint it if it's too ugly. Probably easy to find? 

to directly answer your question - I like the wrap design better and how the top of the handle continues further.


----------



## Ron660

redbull660 said:


> I prefer the 660R. cuz it's like what $30 more? and you get the wrap and HO oiler and large clutch cover. Stihl should only make 661R and 660R Just sayin!
> 
> If nothing else I'd get the R model for the HO oiler and or large clutch cover. Sell the handle if you don't like it. Buy a used regular one and paint it if it's too ugly. Probably easy to find?
> 
> to directly answer your question - I like the wrap design better and how the top of the handle continues further.


 Thanks. I think I'll go that route. I spoke with a Stihl rep. several days ago and they said I couldn't order a "R" kit for my 660. They said I would have to order each part separate. I found out that's very pricey. At least I have the chain roller on my bar spikes so far..lol. HO oiler is next.


----------



## Stihlman441

porsche965 said:


> Just picked up a 36 stihl light bar and chains. Had the oiler turned up on the 661. Now where are those Goonies!


There is a pin next to the oiler adjustment that is a stop for max oil,you can tap the pin in to be able to turn the adjust screw more to gain more oil.


----------



## KG441c

.


Stihlman441 said:


> There is a pin next to the oiler adjustment that is a stop for max oil,you can tap the pin in to be able to turn the adjust screw more to gain more oil.


Is that for a 660 also?


----------



## redbull660

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/661r-fever-its-here.267957/page-2#post-5078224 

I posted a pic of the oiler pin on the 661.


KG441c - 660 does not have that pin.


----------



## KG441c

redbull660 said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/661r-fever-its-here.267957/page-2#post-5078224
> 
> I posted a pic of the oiler pin on the 661.
> 
> 
> KG441c - 660 does not have that pin.


Figures! Was trying to savE my buddy alil money on his 660 from buying a HO oiler


----------



## KG441c

Guess they r adding some nice features to the newer saws today. Thats pretty nice to be able to tap that pin


----------



## mdavlee

KG441c said:


> Figures! Was trying to savE my buddy alil money on his 660 from buying a HO oiler


He can buy the parts for around $40 or the whole oiler for $90.


----------



## KG441c

mdavlee said:


> He can buy the parts for around $40 or the whole oiler for $90./QUOTE]
> Ya I think he priced the new oiler already. Should the 660 need a ho oiler for a 28 or 32 bar?


----------



## mdavlee

You would think it shouldn't but there's a big difference in oil output.


----------



## KG441c

mdavlee said:


> You would think it shouldn't but there's a big difference in oil output.


Ok thanks. What about modding the factory standard oiler?


----------



## mdavlee

KG441c said:


> Ok thanks. What about modding the factory standard oiler?


That could be done also. I think I have a 1122 oiler here I'll look at later.


----------



## paylesspizzaman

So the "R" in the 660R gets you the wrap handle and an H.O. oiler, among other things. Does the 661R actually get you an H.O. oiler or is it assumed that it does just because it did on the 660? I ask because I am about to buy a 661 and if the "R" get the H.O. oiler, that is what I will be buying.


----------



## paylesspizzaman

I find it very interesting that the 661 has disappeared from the stihl USA site. Makes me wonder if they are having problems with them again. I hope not! I've been waiting what feels like an eternity for them to be released again.


----------



## LowVolt

paylesspizzaman said:


> I find it very interesting that the 661 has disappeared from the stihl USA site. Makes me wonder if they are having problems with them again. I hope not! I've been waiting what feels like an eternity for them to be released again.


Dont loose sleep over it. The website has a reputation for being wrong....


----------



## mdavlee

661 oiler is the same on both the regular and R model. There's s pin to push in to allow the control bolt to turn farther and flow more.


----------



## blsnelling

I'm porting another MS661 this evening. Here's the port work laid out.

Exhaust. Those are the piston skirt edges that are marked, so no widening here. I'm also not changing port timing. All the exhaust will get is a little cleanup/polishing work.






Here's the intake port. It will be widening, but no port timing change again. It will be raised just a hair, due to lowering the jug .045".





Here you can see how much angle is put on the factory transfer ports. I make them level with the highest point, no higher.





Here's a pic showing how I use the ring to mark my port heights.


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> I'm porting another MS661 this evening. Here's the port work laid out.
> 
> Exhaust. Those are the piston skirt edges that are marked, so no widening here. I'm also not changing port timing. All the exhaust will get is a little cleanup/polishing work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the intake port. It will be widening, but no port timing change again. It will be raised just a hair, due to lowering the jug .045".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see how much angle is put on the factory transfer ports. I make them level with the highest point, no higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a pic showing how I use the ring to mark my port heights.


Those edges sure do look rough. That's from the factory right?


----------



## KG441c

stihlaficionado said:


> Those edges sure do look rough. That's from the factory right?


Thats what I was thinkin also! The casting inside the ports look rough? Brad is the .045 with deletion of gasket or cut with gasket left in?


----------



## DarthTater

stihlaficionado said:


> Those edges sure do look rough. That's from the factory right?


Normal for Factory Parts, They do as little to them as possible to get the final product out the door.


----------



## KG441c

DarthTater said:


> Normal for Factory Parts, They do as little to them as possible to get the final product out the door.


I can say the kolben schmidt on the 262xp I just ported wasnt rough like that at all. They were clean with nice beveled edges


----------



## stihlaficionado

Wouldn't that roughness affect the flow in some way?


----------



## Stihl working hard

blsnelling said:


> I'm porting another MS661 this evening. Here's the port work laid out.
> 
> Exhaust. Those are the piston skirt edges that are marked, so no widening here. I'm also not changing port timing. All the exhaust will get is a little cleanup/polishing work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the intake port. It will be widening, but no port timing change again. It will be raised just a hair, due to lowering the jug .045".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see how much angle is put on the factory transfer ports. I make them level with the highest point, no higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a pic showing how I use the ring to mark my port heights.


Mark will be happy with that Brad


----------



## KG441c

stihlaficionado said:


> Wouldn't that roughness affect the flow in some way?


The exhaust is all thats polished from my understanding. The intake and transfers stay roughed up alil for fuel mixture but not that rough !! Is that right Brad?


----------



## rich450es

the pictures are zoomed in so it looks worse then it is ......


----------



## blsnelling

Macro photography is not kind. These pics make it look much worse than it is.


----------



## blsnelling

Besides, they don't look like that now


----------



## Mike from Maine

Did you get a comparison video of stock vs ported?


----------



## stihlaficionado

Baby pics for the scrapbook


----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> Besides, they don't look like that now


What grit do u sand the intake and transfers Brad?


----------



## blsnelling

KG441c said:


> What grit do u sand the intake and transfers Brad?


I'm able to achieve that finish with a double cut carbide burr, grease, and a real light touch. I'll bevel the edges yet, but that's the final finish inside the port.


----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> I'm able to achieve that finish with a double cut carbide burr, grease, and a real light touch. I'll bevel the edges yet, but that's the final finish inside the port.


Brad would u mind posting a pic of the burr??


----------



## Stihl working hard

stihlaficionado said:


> Baby pics for the scrapbook


Nice one


----------



## Stihl working hard

blsnelling said:


> I'm able to achieve that finish with a double cut carbide burr, grease, and a real light touch. I'll bevel the edges yet, but that's the final finish inside the port.


The jug looks awesome Brad nice job


----------



## blsnelling

Here's the finished product.











This is the factory bevel here, just touched up a little in the corners.





Polished with an abrasive impregnated rubber thingamahicky, lol.





I clean up the piston windows just a bit, removing casting flash and angling just a little.


----------



## blsnelling

Here's the burr that I use in the transfers.

In this pic, it's loaded with grease from my final grinding.





Here I simply wiped it off with a rag. The grease completely keeps it from loading up.


----------



## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> Here's the burr that I use in the transfers.
> 
> In this pic, it's loaded with grease from my final grinding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here I simply wiped it off with a rag. The grease completely keeps it from loading up.


Do u get the burr from cc specialities? What kinda grease?


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> Here's the burr that I use in the transfers.
> 
> In this pic, it's loaded with grease from my final grinding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here I simply wiped it off with a rag. The grease completely keeps it from loading up.


Looks like something my dentist would use


----------



## DarthTater

blsnelling said:


> Besides, they don't look like that now


That's some fine work there.[emoji106] [emoji41]


----------



## Four Paws

blsnelling said:


> Here's the finished product.



that intake port is HUGE. Nice shape.


----------



## Stihl working hard

stihlaficionado said:


> Looks like something my dentist would use


Probably is looks almost familiar


----------



## blsnelling

KG441c said:


> Do u get the burr from cc specialities? What kinda grease?


I don't even remember. It may have been McMaster Carr.


----------



## blsnelling

MS661 #2 is all back together, recalibrated, and ready for wood.


----------



## rich450es

is it a decrease in weight thing or OCD kicking in, cleaning up the piston


----------



## blsnelling

rich450es said:


> is it a decrease in weight thing or OCD kicking in, cleaning up the piston


I didn't remove enough material to reduce the weight any measurable amount. It's just part of what I do. There's usually a little ridge around the window from the casting process.


----------



## porsche965

Does the 660 have a windowed piston? Thanks.


----------



## blsnelling

porsche965 said:


> Does the 660 have a windowed piston? Thanks.


It does, almost identical to this one.


----------



## windthrown

stihlaficionado said:


> Looks like something my dentist would use



Nggggggaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## paylesspizzaman

Can't wait to find out how big of an improvement can be had on a 661.


----------



## farmer steve

blsnelling said:


> Here's the finished product.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the factory bevel here, just touched up a little in the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polished with an abrasive impregnated rubber thingamahicky, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I clean up the piston windows just a bit, removing casting flash and angling just a little.


you porters sure use some high tech tools.


----------



## DarthTater

farmer steve said:


> you porters sure use some high tech tools.


the Irony is how they do so much of a better job than Manufacturers do now days, true some/most of that is down to the EPA etc, but just the same is it to much to ask that they pay a little more attention to their quality output?


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> MS661 #2 is all back together, recalibrated, and ready for wood.


Back in time to be put under the tree?


----------



## tacomatrd98

stihlaficionado said:


> Back in time to be put under the tree?



Be careful how close you put it...the tree may fall over from just being in the presence of a 661


----------



## stihlaficionado

tacomatrd98 said:


> Be careful how close you put it...the tree may fall over from just being in the presence of a 661


All the ornaments will topple the tree first, or the two cats


----------



## blsnelling

This is the MS661 I showed pictures of the port work last Saturday. I was finally able to get it in wood. This one's holding even more RPMs in the cut than mine. A little additional transfer work did it good.


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> This is the MS661 I showed pictures of the port work last Saturday. I was finally able to get it in wood. This one's holding even more RPMs in the cut than mine. A little additional transfer work did it good.



Nice Brad…

That saw is singing my Tune


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> Nice Brad…
> 
> That saw is singing my Tune


I wanted to get it run and back to you before Christmas. It'll be going out tomorrow.


----------



## stihlaficionado

blsnelling said:


> I wanted to get it run and back to you before Christmas. It'll be going out tomorrow.


That you very much, Sir…


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> That you very much, Sir…


Thank YOU!


----------



## stihlaficionado

The 346 will make a great bookend.

Next year I'll have you pick up a few other goodies


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> The 346 will make a great bookend.


It's next on the bench.


----------



## LowVolt

Just watched the 395 video. I know it was tuned rich but this saw sounds better.


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> Just watched the 395 video. I know it was tuned rich but this saw sounds better.


I think you're right! Seemed like I could lean on this one harder too. But, it's much to early for me to make that call.


----------



## stihlaficionado

I hope they come with a sticker?


----------



## Deleted member 83629

you need to sharpen your chain.


----------



## blsnelling

jakewells said:


> you need to sharpen your chain.





jakewells said:


> you need to sharpen your chain.


That's just hard crotch wood. Look at the chips coming out.


----------



## LowVolt

blsnelling said:


> That's just hard crotch wood.



Naaaaaa, just too easy......


----------



## Deleted member 83629

well it looked like dust but my eyesight is not that great anyways. you need randy to send you a pine log


----------



## porsche965

Listening to the Mtronic Engine Management is intoxicating to me. I wonder if I could digitize that into the sleep or snooze mode on my clock somehow? The wifey would love that one wouldn't she? LOL

Nice port work, I sure can't see anything wrong with how things look or sound. If I was to guess over my stocker you are pulling 1500 rpms or more in the cut...just guessing. And we all know that chain speed makes short work of the day.


----------



## blsnelling

I checked the chain before I headed out. This is a brand new Stihl RS chain, with only a few cuts on it. RS chain is usually rather aggressive, but both of these saws could actually use a little less raker.


----------



## Stihl working hard

blsnelling said:


> This is the MS661 I showed pictures of the port work last Saturday. I was finally able to get it in wood. This one's holding even more RPMs in the cut than mine. A little additional transfer work did it good.



I think you have outdone yourself here Brad even leaning on the saw awesome power in the cut well done I think you hit a home run here


----------



## porsche965

blsnelling said:


> I checked the chain before I headed out. This is a brand new Stihl RS chain, with only a few cuts on it. RS chain is usually rather aggressive, but both of these saws could actually use a little less raker.



I agree with the rakers being lowered. I've found that lower is better than stock with the 661c. Flat file is your friend. The torque pulls through a lowered raker and the engine management system keeps the fuel where it is optimum when more HP is needed.


----------



## DarthTater

blsnelling said:


> This is the MS661 I showed pictures of the port work last Saturday. I was finally able to get it in wood. This one's holding even more RPMs in the cut than mine. A little additional transfer work did it good.




Like a cutting torch through butter...


----------



## Time's Standing Stihl

Sounds pretty healthy Brad! You going to open the other one back up and mess with the transfers?


----------



## coltont

Im surprised that no-one stated anything about how the starter cover is contoured to fit on your left thigh when your carrying it. It doesn't have the sharp corner on the bottom like the 461.


----------



## Moparmyway

blsnelling said:


> This is the MS661 I showed pictures of the port work last Saturday. I was finally able to get it in wood. This one's holding even more RPMs in the cut than mine. A little additional transfer work did it good.



Great - holy - mutha - scratchin - crap ................. That saw really woke up !!
I hope you kept good notes on that build, cause I think you will be seeing more of them 661's !!!


----------



## farmer steve

coltont said:


> Im surprised that no-one stated anything about how the starter cover is contoured to fit on your left thigh when your carrying it. It doesn't have the sharp corner on the bottom like the 461.


'cept if ya carry it in you right hand.


----------



## blsnelling

Time's Standing Stihl said:


> Sounds pretty healthy Brad! You going to open the other one back up and mess with the transfers?


I will. It only takes a few minutes to pop the cylinder off.

Thanks for the kind words guys. I'm quite pleased with how they're running.


----------



## Cedarkerf

farmer steve said:


> 'cept if ya carry it in you right hand.


Or on your shoulder


----------



## coltont

Farmer loggers...............good job in over analyzing everything like you guys always do.


----------



## Chris-PA

blsnelling said:


> This is the MS661 I showed pictures of the port work last Saturday. I was finally able to get it in wood. This one's holding even more RPMs in the cut than mine. A little additional transfer work did it good.



You must be doing something wrong - you keep cutting but the log isn't getting any shorter.


----------



## redbull660

stock vs ported video?


----------



## farmer steve

coltont said:


> Farmer loggers...............good job in over analyzing everything like you guys always do.


practice makes perfect.


----------



## paylesspizzaman

blsnelling said:


> Checking squish, two sides at a time.


I realize I'm not that bright, but what are the 2 spark plug holes about? It surely doesn't take 2 spark plugs?


----------



## big t double

paylesspizzaman said:


> I realize I'm not that bright, but what are the 2 spark plug holes about? It surely doesn't take 2 spark plugz?


one is a decompression valve hole.


----------



## paylesspizzaman

Ah, now that makes sense!


----------



## blsnelling

My R model dawgs finally showed up this week. They were separately packaged with the correct PNs, but both were inner dawgs. The good news is that they do extend farther down, and should definitely support the saw better when wearing a longer bar. 

In the mean time...go Popup 661


----------



## Four Paws

Is the run-on after a long cut characteristic for these M-tonic saws? Sounds like it takes about 2 seconds to return to idle.


----------



## blsnelling

That is typical, even when stock. The 441 does the same thing.

Stihl MS661 Chainsaw Very First Cuts:


----------



## porsche965

Hi Brad,
Are you running the winter/summer shutter open or closed?


----------



## Mastermind

Looks like that saw needs the squish cut.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Looks like that saw needs the squish cut.


Why would I want to go and mess with what already works very well? Both compression and port timing are right where I like them. I see no advantage to cutting the squishband in this case. This saw isn't like a 660 that needs the exhaust port lowered. I'm very pleased with how these saws are turning out.


----------



## Mastermind

Just messing with you Bradley. 

I'm not liking the intake after any machine work, popup, or cut squish.


----------



## Four Paws

Mastermind said:


> I'm not liking the intake after any machine work, popup, or cut squish.



Any options for an alternate piston with a longer skirt?


----------



## Mastermind

You seem to think the same timing numbers work well in every saw......I don't see it that way. 

We just have different ideas about what a real world work saw is I suppose.

Peace?


----------



## Mastermind

Four Paws said:


> Any options for an alternate piston with a longer skirt?



Adding to the skirt would be a great thing from where I see things.......but would it hold up?????

At this time some filler in the intake is the only solution I'm seeing.


----------



## spencerpaving

Just curious...what are ya getting for compression?


----------



## Mastermind

Not as much as I wanna get. You?


----------



## Four Paws

Mastermind said:


> Adding to the skirt would be a great thing from where I see things.......but would it hold up?????



I wasn't implying welding it up...possible but you need an expert on the TIG. Then some machine work, potentially destroy the piston during either process. 

You will know soon enough how the filled jug performs with a shorter intake duration. If it works, no reason you couldn't look for a piston from a different saw that would swap? If you could find something with more skirt length or more compression height, or both, you will have a lot more to work with. Selling the OEM piston would recoup some/all of the cost.

Are these 661s using a 54mm or 56mm bore?


----------



## Mastermind

56mm......

But the piston is pretty "different".

I'm looking at a 395XP piston now......


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Just messing with you Bradley.
> 
> I'm not liking the intake after any machine work, popup, or cut squish.


I know. I thought that I'd go ahead and give a real answer though.


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> I know. I thought that I'd go ahead and give a real answer though.



Quit picking on me dammit. 

I'm sensitive.


----------



## blsnelling

spencerpaving said:


> Just curious...what are ya getting for compression?


About 180 I'm cool with that. I like 180-190, 200 max.


----------



## Mastermind

I think the 395 piston might just work.

Brad, if I get this intake timing down some.......you be eating my dust again.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> You* seem to think the same timing numbers work well in every saw*......I don't see it that way.
> 
> We just have different ideas about what a real world work saw is I suppose.
> 
> Peace?


Not the case at all. Where did you get that idea? There are saws that I would never use a low intake. Others respond very favorably. Some saws love a short blowdown, others not do much. I look at every saw as an individual. I actually cut the squishband and a 660. IMHO, most saws don't need it. In those cases, AFAIC, it's simply a matter of personal preference and build style.


----------



## blsnelling

Four Paws said:


> Any options for an alternate piston with a longer skirt?


I don't mind the low intake on this saw at all. I am curious to see how Randy's R&D saw responds. I would personally hate to think I had to epoxy a work saw to make it run like I like.


----------



## Four Paws

Mastermind said:


> 56mm......
> 
> But the piston is pretty "different".



Understood. 



Mastermind said:


> I'm looking at a 395XP piston now......



Right on! I like pushing the envelope...any problem can be solved, it is just finding the best solution. 

Is the wrist pin 13mm? 56mm is a popular dirt bike bore for the 123cc bikes. The 2100 used a 56mm bore, too I think. And the 056 mag2.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> I think the 395 piston might just work.
> 
> Brad, if I get this intake timing down some.......you be eating my dust again.


That would be cool. However, I'm not seeing this universal rule of 40° of primary compression. I've seen too many saws that run stronger when breaking that rule. Others run best like that. I just don't see trying to apply it universally. Again, every saw is an entity unto itself, and built accordingly.


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> That would be cool. However, I'm not seeing this universal rule of 40° of primary compression. I've seen too many saws that run stronger when breaking that rule. Others run best like that. I just don't see trying to apply it universally. Again, every saw is an entity unto itself, and built accordingly.



Your right, it can't be applied universally.....there are always gonna be exceptions.

The 661 is a totally different transfer/case volume design from the MS660 that allows a long intake duration.......and I think it needs more case compression.

I'm just exploring all possibilities here.


----------



## Trx250r180

will the carb and coil off a 660 fit this saw ?


----------



## Four Paws

Mastermind said:


> I think the 395 piston might just work.



Can you post the measurements of the 661 and 395 for everyone? I have the mag2 piston info below.

Total height 43mm
Comp height 23mm
pin 12mm
pin boss width 15.4mm
skirt width 35.5mm 

Thin rings, too.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Your right, it can't be applied universally.....there are always gonna be exceptions.
> 
> The 661 is a totally different transfer/case volume design from the MS660 that allows a long intake duration.......and I think it needs more case compression.
> 
> I'm just exploring all possibilities here.


I'm down with that. I applaud you for testing it.


----------



## big t double

Four Paws said:


> Can you post the measurements of the 661 and 395 for everyone? I have the mag2 piston info below.
> 
> Total height 43mm
> Comp height 23mm
> pin 12mm
> pin boss width 15.4mm
> skirt width 35.5mm
> 
> Thin rings, too.
> View attachment 395163


weird...I just rebuild an 056mag and the wrist pin/clip was 13mm


----------



## Four Paws

Maybe I better check my piston and the box it's in.


----------



## Mastermind

Well the 395/394 piston will work by using a 2100 wrist pin bearing. The problem is that the case would need clearance work for the longer skirt....





The squish with the 395 piston is a easily manageable .053".


----------



## Mastermind

I'm installing the jug with the built up intake now. 

I'm not planning to epoxy the intake on every 661 I build. Like Brad has said, the gains we can get with the intake at 85* are very good.......I'm just looking for the better.


----------



## Stihlman441

Four Paws said:


> Is the run-on after a long cut characteristic for these M-tonic saws? Sounds like it takes about 2 seconds to return to idle.



This can happen with ported MTronics


----------



## blsnelling

It has nothing to do with porting. It's just a characteristic of MTronic sasws. Here's a brand new MS441C doing it.


----------



## Mastermind

Oh Bradley......


----------



## blsnelling

I'm ok with 200. That should be good.


----------



## KG441c

Brad what kinda problems come into play with more than 200?


----------



## blsnelling

KG441c said:


> Brad what kinda problems come into play with more than 200?


I simply don't find it's needed to make comparable power to a saw with significantly more. My customers confirm my opinions.


----------



## Deleted member 83629

i wouldn't want to go higher than 200 psi you might see detonation and pinging with that much compression.


----------



## blsnelling

It's more stress and wear on the bottom end, and frankly, don't find it's needed.


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> I simply don't find it's needed to make comparable power to a saw with significantly more. My customers confirm my opinions.



Who uses significantly more?


----------



## Mastermind

And who are all these customers?

I never see any of them post a word about your opinions.

Just sayin......

We all have "customers" and "cheerleaders". Why do you keep posting that?

Is there something you'd like to just say straight out?


----------



## VinceGU05

Mastermind said:


> I'm installing the jug with the built up intake now.
> 
> I'm not planning to epoxy the intake on every 661 I build. Like Brad has said, the gains we can get with the intake at 85* are very good.......I'm just looking for the better.


 Curiosity got the better of me. So I had a crack at welding a jug up. 
Gotta say it's a buggar to get in there properly!! 








Ground and stoned back. The nikasil looks great.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

that doesn't look like very good penetration...if any
try more heat


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> And who are all these customers?
> 
> I never see any of them post a word about your opinions.
> 
> Just sayin......
> 
> We all have "customers" and "cheerleaders". Why do you keep posting that?
> 
> Is there something you'd like to just say straight out?


Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.


----------



## Mastermind

Oh I see. 

Your customers are not mere riff raff.

Once again you've outdone yourself. 

I'll make it a point to steer clear of you. You go **** yourself.


----------



## Mastermind

That was a quick back peddle you cowardly son of a *****. 

I got for you though.....



blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.


----------



## Mastermind

You're a real piece of **** Brad.......

Why I keep reaching out to you is a mystery even to me. 

I'll make damn sure I never do again.


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.





blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.





blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.





blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.





blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.





blsnelling said:


> Randy, I'm not playing these games with you. My customers aren't like your customers.


----------



## Mastermind

What a ****ing piece of ****.....

You ain't worth scraping off a good man's shoe.....


----------



## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> What a ****ing piece of ****.....
> 
> You ain't worth scraping off a good man's shoe.....



Maybe so, but Mrs Arboristsite thinks he's a cutie pie.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Oh I see.
> 
> Your customers are not mere riff raff.
> 
> Once again you've outdone yourself.
> 
> I'll make it a point to steer clear of you. You go **** yourself.





Mastermind said:


> That was a quick back peddle you cowardly son of a *****.
> I got for you though.....





Mastermind said:


> You're a real piece of **** Brad.......
> Why I keep reaching out to you is a mystery even to me.
> I'll make damn sure I never do again.





Mastermind said:


> What a ****ing piece of ****.....
> You ain't worth scraping off a good man's shoe.....



Again Randy, you show your true colors. You waffle like the weather. One minute you're trying to be my friend, the next your trying to tear me down. After you blew up at me in a private message in early December, I've done my best to ignore and steer clear of you. I figured that was the safest thing to do when dealing with such an unstable individual. Then you send me messages wanting to be friendly again, only to find you repeatedly running me and my work down in the forum, even suggesting that I'm cheating my customers. How many times do we have to go down this road. Don't you get tired of it?

Let me ask you something. Are you building saws like you did a year or two ago? Nope. Furthermore, you probably won't be building them in another year or two like you are today. But, I'm wrong not to build my saws just like you? Why is it that it's either your way, or the highway? You think that the way you do it is the only way. Something else I'd really like to ask you... why do you have this driving need to run me down? Why are you so insecure? Why am I such a threat to you? I don't know if it's a learned behavior and you're very skilled at it, or if it simply comes natural to you, but you control the opinions of this forum through mind control and manipulation. You are a text book example. For those that would be interested in doing a little research, check out these links.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/Psychology_convincing_someone/Convincing_someone_to_Believe_in_anything
http://brainblogger.com/2008/11/04/hitlers-guide-to-propaganda-the-psychology-of-coercion/
http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/12/the-illusion-of-truth.php
http://brainblogger.com/2013/02/01/bullying-a-rational-choice/

Randy, you'd be surprised at the number of people that are beginning to see through you. Some of my references are your previous customers. I'm not talking one or two. The difference is that I don't feel the need to come to you, and tell you how pathetic of a saw builder you are, or how weak your saws are. Just tonight, I had a long time standing member contact me and tell me how sick they are of your antics. He's not alone Randy.


----------



## Stihlman441

blsnelling said:


> It has nothing to do with porting. It's just a characteristic of MTronic sasws. Here's a brand new MS441C doing it.




Sorry Brad i have to disagree,i have never ran a stock MTronic with an over run issue.


----------



## Andyshine77

Four Paws said:


> Is the run-on after a long cut characteristic for these M-tonic saws? Sounds like it takes about 2 seconds to return to idle.



It seems to be, however the issue also seems to go away after some real use. The same could be said for some of the hesitation symptoms as well.


----------



## blsnelling

What's up Andre? Nothing like spending the night in the ER with Lisa. She has kidney stones


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> What's up Andre? Nothing like spending the night in the ER with Lisa. She has kidney stones



Well I hear that sucks.


----------



## Andyshine77

A good example of run-on, a new 576. The more it ran the less run-on occurred. I've seen this with all auto adjusting saws.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Well I hear that sucks.


It sure does. I had them once. That was enough!


----------



## bryanr2




----------



## VinceGU05

singinwoodwackr said:


> that doesn't look like very good penetration...if any
> try more heat


Probably could. But the main point of trying it was to see what the nikasil coating would do with weld at it. Would it bubble off, become flakey or just melt away. 
It seems it can hang in there.


----------



## Paragon Builder

blsnelling said:


> Again Randy, you show your true colors. You waffle like the weather. One minute you're trying to be my friend, the next your trying to tear me down. After you blew up at me in a private message in early December, I've done my best to ignore and steer clear of you. I figured that was the safest thing to do when dealing with such an unstable individual. Then you send me messages wanting to be friendly again, only to find you repeatedly running me and my work down in the forum, even suggesting that I'm cheating my customers. How many times do we have to go down this road. Don't you get tired of it?
> 
> Let me ask you something. Are you building saws like you did a year or two ago? Nope. Furthermore, you probably won't be building them in another year or two like you are today. But, I'm wrong not to build my saws just like you? Why is it that it's either your way, or the highway? You think that the way you do it is the only way. Something else I'd really like to ask you... why do you have this driving need to run me down? Why are you so insecure? Why am I such a threat to you? I don't know if it's a learned behavior and you're very skilled at it, or if it simply comes natural to you, but you control the opinions of this forum through mind control and manipulation. You are a text book example. For those that would be interested in doing a little research, check out these links.
> 
> http://www.2knowmyself.com/Psychology_convincing_someone/Convincing_someone_to_Believe_in_anything
> http://brainblogger.com/2008/11/04/hitlers-guide-to-propaganda-the-psychology-of-coercion/
> http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/12/the-illusion-of-truth.php
> http://brainblogger.com/2013/02/01/bullying-a-rational-choice/
> 
> Randy, you'd be surprised at the number of people that are beginning to see through you. Some of my references are your previous customers. I'm not talking one or two. The difference is that I don't feel the need to come to you, and tell you how pathetic of a saw builder you are, or how weak your saws are. Just tonight, I had a long time standing member contact me and tell me how sick they are of your antics. He's not alone Randy.


Brad, if this is true, I sure would like to see some examples of Randy's pathetic builds and someone come forward with one to compare against stock saws and your builds. I am on this forum to learn, and a lot of what I read from Randy has helped me wrap my head around how 2strokes function, and if I am having my mind masterminded, I sure would like to be enlightened......
But throwing this **** out there without the data to back it up...... It's just like "blah blah blah".


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Paragon Builder said:


> Brad, if this is true, I sure would like to see some examples of Randy's pathetic builds and someone come forward with one to compare against stock saws and your builds. I am on this forum to learn, and a lot of what I read from Randy has helped me wrap my head around how 2strokes function, and if I am having my mind masterminded, I sure would like to be enlightened......
> But throwing this **** out there without the data to back it up...... It's just like "blah blah blah".



who said randy has pathetic builds ?


----------



## Paragon Builder

blsnelling said:


> Some of my references are your previous customers. I'm not talking one or two. The difference is that I don't feel the need to come to you, and tell you how pathetic of a saw builder you are, or how weak your saws are. Just tonight, I had a long time standing member contact me and tell me how sick they are of your antics. He's not alone Randy.


----------



## weedkilla

Paragon Builder said:


> Brad, if this is true, I sure would like to see some examples of Randy's pathetic builds and someone come forward with one to compare against stock saws and your builds. I am on this forum to learn, and a lot of what I read from Randy has helped me wrap my head around how 2strokes function, and if I am having my mind masterminded, I sure would like to be enlightened......
> But throwing this **** out there without the data to back it up...... It's just like "blah blah blah".


Buying into this is a one way ticket to nowhere. Just accept that this is between these two and you don't know even half the story. 
AS is just fine - even if you don't join team Brad or team Randy. 

It's ok to have your own opinion about what's going on, but this fire doesn't need more fuel.


----------



## Paragon Builder

I'm sure your right. I'm just here to learn.


----------



## Moparmyway

weedkilla said:


> Buying into this is a one way ticket to nowhere. Just accept that this is between these two and you don't know even half the story.
> AS is just fine - even if you don't join team Brad or team Randy.
> 
> It's ok to have your own opinion about what's going on, but this fire doesn't need more fuel.


----------



## blsnelling

SAWMIKAZE said:


> who said randy has pathetic builds ?


Perhaps I could have worded that better. It wasn't my intentions to suggest that Randy does pathetic work. We all know better than that. What I was trying to say was that while Randy likes to talk about how pathetic my saws are, I've had multiple people comment to me about their disappointment in Randy's work...people that would surprise you. But running down Randy's work is *NOT* my purpose or goal. My problem is with Randy's need to belittle me. It's malicious, it's his way of controlling the opinions of this forum, and it's WRONG! 

I don't care to beat this dead horse, but I felt it my obligation to Randy to clear this up. Randy does fine work, and we all know that.


----------



## STIHLTHEDEERE

and all this over................................................a stupid chainsaw. they both do good work work, all the threads and videos here and elsewhere are proof of that.


----------



## blsnelling

STIHLTHEDEERE said:


> and all this over................................................a stupid chainsaw.


Really, it's not. It's about how you treat your fellow man.


----------



## STIHLTHEDEERE

understood, with that said you are both quit obviously very proud of your work, as you should be. sometimes in life there are people that just cannot seem to see eye to eye with each other. it is what it is.......


----------



## fastLeo151

blsnelling said:


> Really, it's not. It's about how you treat your fellow man.



Good point.

Randy is a good man in my book, he has always treated me very well. He even sent me a top end once free of charge. Just because you guys don't see eye to eye doesn't reflect how you treat people. Life's to short to get wrapped up in this stuff guys. Your both good peeps IMO.


----------



## Mastermind

I have pretty bad temper........and say the first thing that comes to mind. 

That makes me tend to say harsh things. 

I'm also an egomaniac, with an inferiority complex. 

No matter how I try.......I cannot like Brad. 

Oil and water we are.

I'll avoid him as best I can. 

Peace.


----------



## Tnshaker

I can say this......if u have ever ran any of brads saws firsthand...u know how to they run. They are very strong. His hybrid is chainsaw nirvana....well except for the rubber mounts. That's not brads fault...lol. I just have become to liking the spring av as I get older.


----------



## fastLeo151

Sup randy! I'm about due for another port job. Was thinking a new 5105 heated handle I got coming if it ever shows up...


----------



## Mastermind

Sup Andrew?

I'm gonna bow outta Brad's thread here.

I apologize to the members for posting in it in the first place.


----------



## Tnshaker

I will also say this....on the same day I ran brads hybrid I ran a 461 randy did. They may be my second favorite saw j have ran. Oh ya except for the rubber av...lol here I go again on that. Both guys do great work for sure. We are all different people with different personality's. Heck my I know my brother is much less abrasive than I am...lol!!!!!!


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> I have pretty bad temper........and say the first thing that comes to mind.
> 
> That makes me tend to say harsh things.
> 
> I'm also an egomaniac, with an *superiority* complex.
> 
> No matter how I try.......I cannot like Brad.
> 
> Oil and water we are.
> 
> I'll avoid him as best I can.
> 
> Peace.


fixed?


----------



## Iceman

blsnelling said:


> Again Randy, you show your true colors. You waffle like the weather. One minute you're trying to be my friend, the next your trying to tear me down. After you blew up at me in a private message in early December, I've done my best to ignore and steer clear of you.  I figured that was the safest thing to do when dealing with such an unstable individual. Then you send me messages wanting to be friendly again, only to find you repeatedly running me and my work down in the forum, even suggesting that I'm cheating my customers. How many times do we have to go down this road. Don't you get tired of it?
> 
> Let me ask you something. Are you building saws like you did a year or two ago? Nope. Furthermore, you probably won't be building them in another year or two like you are today. But, I'm wrong not to build my saws just like you? Why is it that it's either your way, or the highway? You think that the way you do it is the only way. Something else I'd really like to ask you... why do you have this driving need to run me down? Why are you so insecure? Why am I such a threat to you? I don't know if it's a learned behavior and you're very skilled at it, or if it simply comes natural to you, but you control the opinions of this forum through mind control and manipulation. You are a text book example. For those that would be interested in doing a little research, check out these links.
> 
> http://www.2knowmyself.com/Psychology_convincing_someone/Convincing_someone_to_Believe_in_anything
> http://brainblogger.com/2008/11/04/hitlers-guide-to-propaganda-the-psychology-of-coercion/
> http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/12/the-illusion-of-truth.php
> http://brainblogger.com/2013/02/01/bullying-a-rational-choice/
> 
> Randy, you'd be surprised at the number of people that are beginning to see through you. Some of my references are your previous customers. I'm not talking one or two. The difference is that I don't feel the need to come to you, and tell you how pathetic of a saw builder you are, or how weak your saws are. Just tonight, I had a long time standing member contact me and tell me how sick they are of your antics. He's not alone Randy.



Thanks those links are fascinating reading. You've clearly put some thought into this. Thanks for your input on the MS661 also. Right now I'm running one stock, but I know where my money will get spent when it is time for modification.


----------



## blsnelling

I ordered the dual dawgs for the R model shortly after receiving this saw. They were on back order for several weeks. They came in earlier this week. While package correct, I unfortunately received two inner dawgs. I order two outer ones. I went ahead and installed the inner dawg this afternoon. I was curious to see if it extended lower to better support a long bar. I'm happy to report that it does. I find it interesting that the R model dawgs are actually smaller than the standard dawgs. I'm OK with that though. I'm most interested in better supporting a longer bar. I will wait until I have both dawgs before mounting a bar.


----------



## Spectre468

blsnelling said:


> I ordered the dual dawgs for the R model shortly after receiving this saw. They were on back order for several weeks. They came in earlier this week. While package correct, I unfortunately received two inner dawgs. I order two outer ones. I went ahead and installed the inner dawg this afternoon. I was curious to see if it extended lower to better support a long bar. I'm happy to report that it does. I find it interesting that the R model dawgs are actually smaller than the standard dawgs. I'm OK with that though. I'm most interested in better supporting a longer bar. I will wait until I have both dawgs before mounting a bar.



Great depiction and side by side comparison of the 2 styles!


----------



## stihlaficionado

How much more for the R version?


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> How much more for the R version?


$50. They only recently became available here.


----------



## stihlaficionado

But the oiler output is the same ?


----------



## blsnelling

stihlaficionado said:


> But the oiler output is the same ?


Yes. You just have to punch the stop in. I'll have an extra set of R model dawgs.


----------



## LowVolt

stihlaficionado said:


> But the oiler output is the same ?


A simple mod makes it the same.


----------



## stihlaficionado

Hmmm…another 661 ??


----------



## Iceman

For sure and hopefully not putting epoxy in the ports good god. They are pretty mean stock but a little breathing room is good with over 36" bar installed.



stihlaficionado said:


> Hmmm…another 661 ??


----------



## jughead500

The bike tuners I know have just used JB weld over the years with good success as far as i know there hasn't been any failures.


----------



## Mastermind

Iceman said:


> For sure and hopefully not putting epoxy in the ports good god. They are pretty mean stock but a little breathing room is good with over 36" bar installed.



If you wanna stir the **** then I'm cool with it. 

Y'all wanna have a big show and tell day?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Mastermind said:


> If you wanna stir the **** then I'm cool with it.
> 
> Y'all wanna have a big show and tell day?


 
Is it an open show and tell for everyone ?..i love these games.


----------



## Mastermind

Why not?

I've got a gang of stuff I can bring.


----------



## Mastermind

Just remember......

I've went way outta my way to fix anything I've done that was messed up. 

All anyone has ever had to do was bring it to my attention.


----------



## Mastermind

I gave Brad my word I'd not say anything about him. 

I'm not gonna let you guys suck me into breaking my word here. 

Good Day Sirs. 

Subscribing now.


----------



## jughead500

This ran.Kaw H2 triple.Knew the dude that bought the bike.tore it down to inspect it.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Can one of you kind sirs PM me and give a computer challenged technology retard like me the guidance to get videos on here , or how to make photobucket and upload stuff , im a dumbass with that sort of thing .


----------



## lone wolf

jughead500 said:


> This ran.Kaw H2 triple.Knew the dude that bought the bike.tore it down to inspect it.


I never seen anything like that before


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Can one of you kind sirs PM me and give a computer challenged technology retard like me the guidance to get videos on here , or how to make photobucket and upload stuff , im a dumbass with that sort of thing .


What are you working from a phone or a mac or pc?


----------



## LowVolt

Photos are easy. Right next to the post reply button there is a upload file button. You can use that for images and PDFs.


----------



## lone wolf

LowVolt said:


> Photos are easy. Right next to the post reply button there is a upload file button. You can use that for images and PDFs.


That work with phones too?


----------



## LowVolt

Videos you need to upload to YouTube then embed the link to the video using the video icon. It's the second one to the right if the smiley icon.


----------



## LowVolt

lone wolf said:


> That work with phones too?



I am on an iPhone right now.


----------



## LowVolt

Pretty easy when you just take pictures with the iPhone.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Im doin it from a phone .. samsung galaxy mega..i can do the pictures but not videos..i have a mountain of videos featuring..mastermind worksaws....snellerized saws....slowzerdan saws (but they arent slow).. stumpbroke saws.. squish saws .. popup saws..orange saws..2 tone saws..new saws..older saws..7 pins..8 pins..square chisel..round chisel..semi chisel..lean tunes.. fat tunes..mtronics..autotunes .. and a couple fat chicks


----------



## big t double

F the saws. Let's get it figured out for the sake of the fat chick vids!!


----------



## jughead500

Bored of saw video's.Bring on the Fat chicks.Just don't tell 08f150.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

big t double said:


> F the saws. Let's get it figured out for the sake of the fat chick vids!!



As long as some of you guys dont get a woody and get the sweats we can do that...same goes for the saws


----------



## big t double

SAWMIKAZE said:


> As long as some of you guys dont get a woody and get the sweats we can do that.


No promises here my man....but I'll do my best.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

LowVolt said:


> Videos you need to upload to YouTube then embed the link to the video using the video icon. It's the second one to the right if the smiley icon.



Ive tried that rory it didnt work , ive been dying to share my expierences ..maybe separate a little fact and fiction ..


----------



## lone wolf

jughead500 said:


> Bored of saw video's.Bring on the Fat chicks.Just don't tell 08f150.


He will find them don't worry.


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ive tried that rory it didnt work , ive been dying to share my expierences ..maybe separate a little fact and fiction ..


Can you get them on a computer?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

jughead500 said:


> Bored of saw video's.Bring on the Fat chicks.Just don't tell 08f150.


 
Scott seems like he could always go for a big snack


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

lone wolf said:


> Can you get them on a computer?



I dont have a puter  .. but my better half has one of those touchscreen tv lookin things.


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I dont have a puter  .. but my better half has one of those touchscreen tv lookin things.


I dont know about that phone at all but Todo on here would know how to do it.


----------



## lone wolf

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/members/todo10.118435/


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Im doin it from a phone .. samsung galaxy mega..i can do the pictures but not videos..i have a mountain of videos featuring..mastermind worksaws....snellerized saws....slowzerdan saws (but they arent slow).. stumpbroke saws.. squish saws .. popup saws..orange saws..2 tone saws..new saws..older saws..7 pins..8 pins..square chisel..round chisel..semi chisel..lean tunes.. fat tunes..mtronics..autotunes .. and a couple fat chicks




I didnt realize i sounded like a rapper there , brush ape isnt the only rapper here apparently.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

My homeboy mike lee just texted me , im gonna call him soon to see if the can explain this to me , hes not only an excellent welder , hes a videologist


----------



## LowVolt

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ive tried that rory it didnt work , ive been dying to share my expierences ..maybe separate a little fact and fiction ..



So did you get them on YouTube?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

LowVolt said:


> So did you get them on YouTube?



I created a youtube account through google i guess..i must have screwed up somehow and did it right..but when i try to upload it says my extension is wrong or sometin along those lines , i always thought my extension looked just fine.


----------



## blsnelling

big t double said:


> F the saws. Let's get it figured out for the sake of the fat chick vids!!


Please, NO!!!


----------



## lone wolf

blsnelling said:


> Please, NO!!!


What if they are running saws?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

I dont use gmail ,and i forgot my password since the guy at the phone store created it and i never used it so im gonna start all over


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I dont use gmail ,and i forgot my password since the guy at the phone store created it and i never used it so im gonna start all over


Sounds like me!


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

lone wolf said:


> Sounds like me!



Im really bad at this ... i think atari just came out last week .. this stuff is frustrating.


----------



## blsnelling

Click "Share", then copy the link in the text box below directly into your reply. Nothing else is needed.


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Im really bad at this ... i think atari just came out last week .. this stuff is frustrating.


Know any teens that can help? They can figure it out we cant.


----------



## jughead500

atari rules! thinking about getting one of the new $40 ones at the dollar store.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

My point of this is going to be that really noone is superior to the other..its not randy vs brad..stumpy vs dan..well maybe if a second or two decides your decision then maybe it is , but all in all the average blue collar turd isnt gonna notice the seat of the pants difference..im not a saw builder..im a saw user..and i change my own muffler bearings myself..ive had guys PM me that cut 5 cords of firewood a year so concerned over a second in a cut..why i have no clue..i think its best to roll with whoever your cool with..to say one is soooo much better than the other is ********..it really is..im a person who just does my thing..i dont really feel the need to impress anyone , and laugh at those who do..its all in good nature with me..i wish some of these dudes would just let it go and do them instead of tryin to show who has a bigger crank..your probably a white guy..its not that big.


----------



## blsnelling

SAWMIKAZE said:


> ..your probably a white guy..its not that big.


Made me laugh out loud, for real, lol


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

jughead500 said:


> atari rules! thinking about getting one of the new $40 ones at the dollar store.



Do it , buy space invaders..sweet game


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

blsnelling said:


> Made me laugh out loud, for real, lol



Well bradley , its true..99.9% of the members here who piss on a cold day have a crank that looks like an olive in a wizards robe..or they wouldnt be into chainsaws.


----------



## jughead500

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Do it , buy space invaders..sweet game


Actually all the games are already In the console.my lord its been probably 32 years or so since I played an atari.god I feel old.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

I found out that i have 4 gmail accounts created from the times i forgot my password to access something on my phone..so im startin all over


----------



## Iceman

On cold days its like findin a button thru a fur coat.


----------



## KG441c

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ive tried that rory it didnt work , ive been dying to share my expierences ..maybe separate a little fact and fiction ..


Ryan I upload from my Samsung Mega . Upload the video to youtube then add it to your clipboard. Go to AS and hit the media upload button and add your video from your clipboard and embed it


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

It keeps sayin i dont have the proper extension from my gallery on my phone..ill text them for now


----------



## KG441c

SAWMIKAZE said:


> It keeps sayin i dont have the proper extension from my gallery on my phone..ill text them for now


Im not sure about that one. Brad probably knows as hes the computer guy


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

lone wolf said:


> Know any teens that can help? They can figure it out we cant.



I dont , my sister is slick with it but shes 3 hours away


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I dont , my sister is slick with it but shes 3 hours away


Call.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

lone wolf said:


> Call.



Im sittin here lookin at my ladys ipad , shes helpin..i want a photobucket account , i tried on youtube again and it said my videos were too big ? So i tried the resize thing and then it said somethin about the extension


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Im sittin here lookin at my ladys ipad , shes helpin..i want a photobucket account , i tried on youtube again and it said my videos were too big ? So i tried the resize thing and then it said somethin about the extension


Hell just use the IPAD.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

lone wolf said:


> Hell just use the IPAD.



Vids are on my phone mang  .. im sure this is somethin stupid im just overlookin


----------



## KG441c

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Vids are on my phone mang  .. im sure this is somethin stupid im just overlookin


Bluetooth videos to your ipad


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

KG441c said:


> Bluetooth videos to your ipad



How do you do that ? Isnt that one of those things you put in your ear..you gotta understand keith , i know next to nothing about computers..i just found out not too long ago how to copy and paste.


----------



## lone wolf

SAWMIKAZE said:


> How do you do that ? Isnt that one of those things you put in your ear..you gotta understand keith , i know next to nothing about computers..i just found out not too long ago how to copy and paste.


You need a kid there really.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

I thought i just had it and went to post it here and it said failed to open selected file


----------



## KG441c

SAWMIKAZE said:


> How do you do that ? Isnt that one of those things you put in your ear..you gotta understand keith , i know next to nothing about computers..i just found out not too long ago how to copy and paste.


Its all easy Ryan you just gotta do it a few times. U gotta turn bluetooth on your phone on and on the ipad, sync them together , then send the video to your ipad.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE




----------



## tree monkey




----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Shiit..see i clicked a video and this picture came instead


----------



## tree monkey




----------



## bryanr2

tree monkey said:


>





WOW


----------



## porsche965

That really caught me off guard. WOW is RIGHT! And from an old guy with a beard no less! WOW!


----------



## jughead500

tree monkey said:


>



What the hell was that?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

Seems like everyone here has something to learn from tree monkey.


----------



## tree monkey

jughead500 said:


> What the hell was that?


rick helverson and his rotex


----------



## blsnelling

No shame in losing to Scott! The strongest 60cc saws I've built were a MS361 and a 359.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

PA dan's son is gonna be my computer teacher ..take them for what theyre worth boys .. its nothing more than to share the **** ton of saws ive had from different guys..and at the end of the day they are all pretty good runners , a few seconds here and there on certain models doesnt mean much ( not to me anyway ) ..


----------



## singinwoodwackr

does he do the V8s?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

blsnelling said:


> No shame in losing to Scott! The strongest 60cc saws I've built were a MS361 and a 359.



Ya brad..you lost


----------



## blsnelling

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ya brad..you lost


Yes, I did!


----------



## Andyshine77

And people wonder why I will never port a saw for anyone other than a friend. 

BTW most of my own saws are stock, and as some have said, over and over again, ported saws are a fad.


----------



## tree monkey

I posted the vid as a comparison between a popup and a cut squish.
this was not meant to be a shot at brad, or a "i'm better then you are" post.
sorry I posted it without an explanation


----------



## gary courtney

tree monkey said:


>



STOUT 361


----------



## Moparmyway

tree monkey said:


> I posted the vid as a comparison between a popup and a cut squish.



Shouldn't that have been against the same saw then ?


----------



## Moparmyway

SAWMIKAZE said:


> My point of this is going to be that really noone is superior to the other..its not randy vs brad..stumpy vs dan..well maybe if a second or two decides your decision then maybe it is , but all in all the average blue collar turd isnt gonna notice the seat of the pants difference..im not a saw builder..im a saw user..and i change my own muffler bearings myself..ive had guys PM me that cut 5 cords of firewood a year so concerned over a second in a cut..why i have no clue..i think its best to roll with whoever your cool with..to say one is soooo much better than the other is ********..it really is..im a person who just does my thing..i dont really feel the need to impress anyone , and laugh at those who do..its all in good nature with me..i wish some of these dudes would just let it go and do them instead of tryin to show who has a bigger crank.


----------



## Moparmyway

lone wolf said:


> I never seen anything like that before


I still cant believe that was running .......... whats the cylinder look like ?


----------



## tree monkey

Moparmyway said:


> Shouldn't that have been against the same saw then ?


yes


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

KG441c said:


> Ryan I upload from my Samsung Mega . Upload the video to youtube then add it to your clipboard. Go to AS and hit the media upload button and add your video from your clipboard and embed it



Keith , how many did you get last night ?


----------



## blsnelling

tree monkey said:


> I posted the vid as a comparison between a popup and a cut squish.
> this was not meant to be a shot at brad, or a "i'm better then you are" post.
> sorry I posted it without an explanation


You should compare that saw to the 361 that Chad has.


----------



## blsnelling

The only way to really test this popup vs cut squishband thing is to take a strong saw with a popup and run it on the dyno. Then replace the piston in that saw with a flattop, cut the squishband to result in the same compression, re-port to the same timing numbers, and re-dyno it. Anything less, and you're testing variables other than popup vs cut squishband. I've built 346s both ways and my popup saw was faster...measurably so.


----------



## Moparmyway

Brad, modding my saw with a popup; my largest fear is that in 15 years, my saw will need a new piston. If I sent you a saw to modify, could you make a second piston for it (in case I need it in the future) ...... and how much more would you charge (aside from the cost of the piston)


----------



## Iceman

Moparmyway said:


> Brad, modding my saw with a popup; my largest fear is that in 15 years, my saw will need a new piston.



Don't worry Bud. In fifteen years we'll find something even better than pop-up pistons.


----------



## blsnelling

Moparmyway said:


> Brad, modding my saw with a popup; my largest fear is that in 15 years, my saw will need a new piston. If I sent you a saw to modify, could you make a second piston for it (in case I need it in the future) ...... and how much more would you charge (aside from the cost of the piston)


You make an excellent point. I don't know how many times I've seen this as a reason to not use a popup. Seriously? How often are people replacing their piston? They're not. You provide the piston, I'll turn it for free for any saw that I built.


----------



## Moparmyway

blsnelling said:


> You make an excellent point. I don't know how many times I've seen this as a reason to not use a popup. Seriously? How often are people replacing their piston? They're not. You provide the piston, I'll turn it for free for any saw that I built.



That says a lot Brad.
I may have to re-consider my 661, and see about getting me a piston for it.


----------



## Moparmyway

Iceman said:


> Don't worry Bud. In fifteen years we'll find something even better than pop-up pistons.


Yeah, maybe so, but for now, I am liking the idea that there is a choice between cutting squish and cutting the piston ..............
I aint racing or competing, so to me its all about longevity.
Something happens to a cut squish saw and they can get a new piston, probably clean up the cylinder, re-assemble and go
Getting the extra piston cut now, then having something happen puts me in the same boat;

- I am still purchasing a piston on either one
- I can probably re-use the same cylinder on either one
- I can easily have the saw up and running in less than a few hours on either one 

My only question now is how is the top ring holding up in a popup saw ?
(I am willing to wager that it is seeing some more action due to the cut piston, but from seeing all of the posts from guys with saws out there running pop-ups, nobody has posted up anything detrimental with their top ring.)


----------



## Iceman

Yup there's more flutter and the groove sees more pressure. But the additional turbulence blows out the cobs better. Carbon is the real killer of two-strokes.


----------



## LowVolt

Even if this whole replacement piston thing becomes an issue and all the saw builders disappear in the Bermuda Triangle, I am sure a machinest somewhere can spin you up a popup. I don't see that being a huge issue.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

got to use my 661 with the 42" today...wow...was able to really lean on it and it never bogged down. I wasn't expecting this as the 28" bar did bog if pushed in the same wood, smaller rounds.
green Eucalyptus, white gum (larger stuff has pink heart wood)
stihl 404 42/41" bar (13t tip sprocket), 52AJ (now round filed) full skip, 7t sprocket 
chain had a couple light sharpenings on it but hadn't touched the rakers...still throwing good sized chips, however
After the one round (about 45" diameter) I dropped rakers a few thousandths...haven't tried it again yet.
running new RS full comp on the 28 with 8t sprocket (small tip bar, 11t)
I've opened up the single muffler port about 50%

I'm thinking this thing was more engineered for big bars rather than smaller. My '92 066 'red-eye' is a lot faster and stronger with a 24" or 28" than this new saw. (just a muff mod/dual pt)


----------



## blsnelling

My 395XP is headed back to Illinois where it came from. Stihlaficiando sold it to me and now bought it back. He also has that very strong running 661 I built for him. His reports on the 661 are extremely favorable. Lots of torque and more topend than a 660. I would concur with that assessment. Since I never got around to it, he's agreed to do a heads up comparison on them. Yes, I'm putting you on the hook, Mark!


----------



## Paragon Builder

Sweet!!!


----------



## Hinerman

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Well bradley , its true..99.9% of the members here who piss on a cold day have a crank that looks like an olive in a wizards robe..or they wouldnt be into chainsaws.


 
I'll be damned. This explains everything. Next time somebody asks me why I like chainsaws so much I will have an intelligent answer.


----------



## bryanr2

gary courtney said:


> STOUT 361


Ive never been interested in the 361 as I like the 262xps, but that video got my attention.


----------



## treesmith

661cxbti ftw!


----------



## Island Faller

blsnelling said:


> I ordered the dual dawgs for the R model shortly after receiving this saw. They were on back order for several weeks. They came in earlier this week. While package correct, I unfortunately received two inner dawgs. I order two outer ones. I went ahead and installed the inner dawg this afternoon. I was curious to see if it extended lower to better support a long bar. I'm happy to report that it does. I find it interesting that the R model dawgs are actually smaller than the standard dawgs. I'm OK with that though. I'm most interested in better supporting a longer bar. I will wait until I have both dawgs before mounting a bar.


Here are the West Coast flavour


----------



## Ironworker

blsnelling said:


> My 395XP is headed back to Illinois where it came from. Stihlaficiando sold it to me and now bought it back. He also has that very strong running 661 I built for him. His reports on the 661 are extremely favorable. Lots of torque and more topend than a 660. I would concur with that assessment. Since I never got around to it, he's agreed to do a heads up comparison on them. Yes, I'm putting you on the hook, Mark!


I just went through this whole thread looking for a 661 390 comparison and nothing WTF.


----------



## blsnelling

Ironworker said:


> I just went through this whole thread looking for a 661 390 comparison and nothing WTF.


Maybe that's something we can do at the GTG Saturday.


----------



## stihlaficionado

Ironworker said:


> I just went through this whole thread looking for a 661 390 comparison and nothing WTF.


The 395 was faster then the 661 but the Stihl was smoother


----------



## Ironworker

What about the 390.


----------



## stihlaficionado

Ironworker said:


> What about the 390.


I ran my Baderized 385 against the 395/661 & it was smoked by the 395


----------



## stihlaficionado

395 is still the king of the hill

But the 661 is more "refined" as Brad put it


----------



## bryanr2

yup. my ported 395 is the most impressive saw I have ever run. It had it all over my ported 2188- both with 28'' bars in red oak, and my 2188 was pretty "hot". I don't see the 661cm I have now ever running with wither of them.


----------



## stihlaficionado

Each has it's place though. The bulk & vibration of the 395 is a pain. Fun as heck to run though

Would be really interested to see what Husky comes up with in their remake of the 395 now that the 661 is on the market


----------



## bryanr2

depends on application. Would prefer a 390 or 661 for falling, but for bucking, the 395 is awesome.... set it on the log and the weight helps feed it thru the cut. It's a race to the bottom every time.


----------



## Ironworker

Bottom line, both ported 661 or 390.


----------



## MustangMike

Your invisible Numa, I can't answer it, I don't know!

But you gotta try my "new recipe" 044 at the next GTG!


----------



## mdavlee

Ironworker said:


> Bottom line, both ported 661 or 390.


390 you can tune still.


----------



## porsche965

bryanr2 said:


> yup. my ported 395 is the most impressive saw I have ever run. It had it all over my ported 2188- both with 28'' bars in red oak, and my 2188 was pretty "hot". I don't see the 661cm I have now ever running with wither of them.



If you were to use a saw 8-10 hours a day felling and bucking which saw from your collection would you choose? I could see where this question would be a tough one


----------



## bryanr2

porsche965 said:


> If you were to use a saw 8-10 hours a day felling and bucking which saw from your collection would you choose? I could see where this question would be a tough one




My "collection" is no more, Im at my lowest # in 4 years. . I prefer my ported 288xp to anything I have or had.


----------



## Ironworker

blsnelling said:


> Maybe that's something we can do at the GTG Saturday.


Well, looks like you guys had fun, was there a shoot out between a ported 390 and the 661.


----------



## blsnelling

Here are my latest vids, comparing a stock MS661 and one that I built. You're looking at about a 32% difference in this particular test. 

Stock


Snellerized


----------



## LowVolt

Show off....


----------



## coltont

Would have been more practical if the wood was bigger. Like maybe the bar buried in wood? Might as well put a 20" on it for that test.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## singinwoodwackr

coltont said:


> Would have been more practical if the wood was bigger. Like maybe the bar buried in wood? Might as well put a 20" on it for that test.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


These saws work much better with longer bars...lot more torque than older model. But, not as fast, even ported, with short bar compared to early 066. At least that's my observation.


----------



## Moparmyway

Here is mine with an 8 tooth, 36 inch, .404 in the butt of a rock hard maple


----------



## blsnelling

coltont said:


> Would have been more practical if the wood was bigger. Like maybe the bar buried in wood? Might as well put a 20" on it for that test.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I'm extremely lucky to have wood this size. Beggars can't be choosers. Take it for what it is. I think it does a very ample job of displaying the powerband of the saw.


----------



## blsnelling

singinwoodwackr said:


> These saws work much better with longer bars...lot more torque than older model. But, not as fast, even ported, with short bar compared to early 066. At least that's my observation.


I don't think I've ever had a 066 run this strong.


----------



## coltont

A non decomp flat top will.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling

coltont said:


> A non decomp flat top will.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I have one on my 064.


----------



## stihl sawing

Taking your hand off the handle wasn't too smart. you have been lucky so far. why tempt fate.


----------



## blsnelling

stihl sawing said:


> Taking your hand off the handle wasn't too smart. you have been lucky so far. why tempt fate.


Hard to imagine a kickback with the tip no where near wood.


----------



## jmssaws

066\660's can be strong.


----------



## stihl sawing

blsnelling said:


> Hard to imagine a kickback with the tip no where near wood.


What if you hit a nail or any object in the trunk you couldn't see? Not a good practice to show newbies how to run a hopped up big saw with one hand. Like I said why tempt fate.


----------



## coltont

blsnelling said:


> Hard to imagine a kickback with the tip no where near wood.


What about the kid that built a tree house in the tree 25 years ago and pounded nails in it?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## jmssaws




----------



## blsnelling

stihl sawing said:


> What if you hit a nail or any object in the trunk you couldn't see? Not a good practice to show newbies how to run a hopped up big saw with one hand. Like I said why tempt fate.


I wouldn't have done it if I felt I was risking injury. Kickback requires force from the tip. A nail in the wood would have simply dulled the chain. Ask me how I know, lol.


----------



## blsnelling

jmssaws said:


> 066\660's can be strong.



No doubt about that.


----------



## blsnelling

jmssaws said:


>



I hate it when that happens, lol.


----------



## coltont

I forgot. Because you are the snellerizing saw god.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## Moparmyway

blsnelling said:


> I don't think I've ever had a 066 run this strong.


I have an 066 thats even stronger than my 661



jmssaws said:


> 066\660's can be strong.


That is one sporty saw !!


Here is my Freak 066 wearing the exact same bar, chain, and 8 tooth thats on my 661 video


----------



## Deets066

jmssaws said:


> 066\660's can be strong.



Yes they can!


----------



## jmssaws

blsnelling said:


> I hate it when that happens, lol.


I was in the middle of nowhere and couldn't believe it, I'd just sharpened that stupid long chain. The video stops because the cussing started.


----------



## stihl sawing

blsnelling said:


> I wouldn't have done it if I felt I was risking injury. Kickback requires force from the tip. A nail in the wood would have simply dulled the chain. Ask me how I know, lol.


If you don't think a foreign object in the tree can cause a kickback, you are wrong. I just hope you don't give the new guys with saws the idea it's ok to run a 661 with one hand. Or any saw for that matter. You going to tell me that a tree falling can't hit another tree and make a limb hit you in the head too. crap can happen quick cutting with saws. always be safe.


----------



## jmssaws

Deets066 said:


> Yes they can!



Your thing is shorter than mine and that dumaflachy that covers your airfilter is missing. Lol


----------



## jmssaws

Moparmyway said:


> I have an 066 thats even stronger than my 661
> 
> 
> That is one sporty saw !!
> 
> 
> Here is my Freak 066 wearing the exact same bar, chain, and 8 tooth thats on my 661 video



Pretty sporty my freind.


----------



## coltont

jmssaws said:


> Your thing is shorter than mine and that dumaflachy that covers your airfilter is missing. Lol


That max flow almost makes it fly!!!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling

This is where GTGs are fun. We could all get together and compare them, just for the fun of it.


----------



## jmssaws

Finger ported 064.


----------



## Deets066

jmssaws said:


> Your thing is shorter than mine and that dumaflachy that covers your airfilter is missing. Lol


It ain't about length, it's how you use it


----------



## jmssaws

Deets066 said:


> It ain't about length, it's how you use it


Keep telling yourself that deets. Lol


----------



## Deets066

jmssaws said:


> Keep telling yourself that deets. Lol


----------



## Deets066

So what sprockets you boys have on all them beastly saws?


----------



## Deets066

Oh... Yours too Brad. 



Lol J/K


----------



## Sierra65

wow!! what a difference! now lets see how much of a difference there is with fuel injection in the NHRA pro stocks! ya, lets start a new thread lol.. (if there is not one now) saw pix of a car! no more hood scoop, looks like a nascar with wheelie-bars!!!


----------



## Deets066

Mine was runnin 3/8 9 pin


----------



## jmssaws

8 pin full comp.


----------



## Moparmyway

Both videos of mine were .404 with 8 tooth drives and RS chain


----------



## singinwoodwackr

blsnelling said:


> I don't think I've ever had a 066 run this strong.


my '92 red eye with just a MM is faster with the 24" bar than the new saw. both with 8t sprockets and same chain. weird...
in 30"+ wood (Blue gum Euch) with 36 or 42" (3/8, 404) full skip, 7t there is no contest...661 wins.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

stihl sawing said:


> What if you hit a nail or any object in the trunk you couldn't see? Not a good practice to show newbies how to run a hopped up big saw with one hand. Like I said why tempt fate.


that far into the log and nothing near the tip? in 35yrs of cutting firewood I've never had a saw kick back under those conditions. hitting something embedded in the wood wouldn't cause a KB either and I've hit plenty of crap from nails to cans to electrical insulators


----------



## singinwoodwackr

coltont said:


> A non decomp flat top will.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


what I have


----------



## jmssaws

singinwoodwackr said:


> what I have


My saws in the vids is a redeye.
Great username by the way.


----------



## jmssaws

I has a late 660 cylinder on it though, the no decompression cylinder is on my 064.


----------



## KG441c

jmssaws said:


> I has a late 660 cylinder on it though, the no decompression cylinder is on my 064.


How do u like the 064 compared to the 066


----------



## jmssaws

KG441c said:


> How do u like the 064 compared to the 066


There's not much difference with a 24" but a 36" The 066 will flog it, but there ported different and there's 30 lbs of compression difference.


----------



## porsche965

I've had great success with the 661. Multiple saws pushed hard. 066 fan and former owner. 

When they get the filtration re-worked like the 362c, and they will, they will be a 10 pointer for me. 

Nice videos.


----------



## Stihl 041S

Dam Brad.
I got enough saws. Now I want a 661 ported. 
Dam enabler.


----------



## MustangMike

I won't get into which saw is stronger ported (066 or 661), but a stock 661 is a very strong saw, and you made very respectable improvements, good job Brad.

Last time I hit a nail was making a notch on a big Sugar Maple that was near a road, with square file chain. Just put the saw down, picked up another, and made the notch higher! Had to pry pieces of the nail out of 2 teeth before I could sharpen it. The chain looked like H*** after that, with pieces of the top plate missing, but all the corners were still there and it cut just fine.


----------



## Stihl 041S

MustangMike said:


> I won't get into which saw is stronger ported (066 or 661), but a stock 661 is a very strong saw, and you made very respectable improvements, good job Brad.
> 
> Last time I hit a nail was making a notch on a big Sugar Maple that was near a road, with square file chain. Just put the saw down, picked up another, and made the notch higher! Had to pry pieces of the nail out of 2 teeth before I could sharpen it. The chain looked like H*** after that, with pieces of the top plate missing, but all the corners were still there and it cut just fine.


Agreed.
Dam hard to compare two saws if you haven't run an example of both of them.
And nails suck.


----------



## Andyshine77

Brad I really like the way that 661 ran with the 36" bar buried in the ash we cut last month. I've ran numerous 066/660 from a number of builders "one of them being yours", not one impressed me all that much. The most important part, they all cut wood just fine, so it really doesn't matter. I must say I liked that 064 with the 660 top end, that was a runner. 

I guess some just like to piss on others success, because of their own shortcomings. Nothing new there. No operating a saw with one hand isn't the safest thing, but we've all done it and in situations like that it's quite safe IMHO, but I always wear nothing but the best PPE available.


----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

Stihl 041S said:


> And nails suck.



Yes, they suck. But when you hit a ****** shrapnell from WWI, it's another story, you just killed your chain.

I was thinking to send a letter to the german govt, they owe me a lot of chains now!


----------



## Stihl 041S

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> Yes, they suck. But when you hit a ****** shrapnell from WWI, it's another story, you just killed your chain.
> 
> I was thinking to send a letter to the german govt, they owe me a lot of chains now!


They'd just deny it. Lol


----------



## Moparmyway

Andyshine77 said:


> I guess some just like to piss on others success, because of their own shortcomings. Nothing new there.



I have been very vocal about the additional strength that Brad has gotten on his 661 in the cut from his modifications

I went into my 661 and made it stronger, even communicated in a PM with Brad about it ................
I put up a video of mine (running .404 and an 8 tooth rim with a 36) and showed what it does in the butt of a hard maple.

I put up an 066 thats even stronger than my 661 .............. same bar, chain, drive, and wood
Others put up some very strong 066's in response to someones comment about them not being as strong

Where is there any pissing on anyone ?
My 2 videos certainly dont show any shortcomings, nor did jmssaws or Deets videos

If someone would have put on .375 with a 7 tooth and cut a 22" log with a 36" setup, then I could see how someone MIGHT take that as trying to compete with Brad .................... I havent seen that.

Its an internet forum thats open to the public Andy, all the videos show some pretty strong saws, so tell me how I should take your post if I am taking it wrong ................ your vagueness leaves too much to be inferred, and also leaves much to be desired


----------



## Mastermind

Andyshine77 said:


> Brad I really like the way that 661 ran with the 36" bar buried in the ash we cut last month. I've ran numerous 066/660 from a number of builders "one of them being yours", not one impressed me all that much. The most important part, they all cut wood just fine, so it really doesn't matter. I must say I liked that 064 with the 660 top end, that was a runner.
> 
> I guess some just like to piss on others success, because of their own shortcomings. Nothing new there. No operating a saw with one hand isn't the safest thing, but we've all done it and in situations like that it's quite safe IMHO, but I always wear nothing but the best PPE available.



So, if I posted a 661 video in this 661 thread, would that mean I was attacking someone?

This place has become something far removed from a chainsaw enthusiast's site if posting saw videos if considered to be bad form. 

Or am I missing something? Are there some deleted posts that tell a different story?


----------



## jmssaws

I was definitely not attacking anybody, I was simply posting videos of what I think are strong saws that I built where I thought they where relevant. 

Well said randy.


----------



## KG441c

jmssaws said:


> I was definitely not attacking anybody, I was simply posting videos of what I think are strong saws that I built where I thought they where relevant.
> 
> Well said randy.


And very strong they appear to be !!


----------



## Moparmyway

Mastermind said:


> Are there some deleted posts that tell a different story?


Nothing has been deleted


----------



## Moparmyway

jmssaws said:


> I was definitely not attacking anybody, I was simply posting videos of what I think are strong saws that I built where I thought they where relevant.



Same here ! (Except I didnt build that 066)


----------



## blsnelling

singinwoodwackr said:


> that far into the log and nothing near the tip? in 35yrs of cutting firewood I've never had a saw kick back under those conditions. hitting something embedded in the wood wouldn't cause a KB either and I've hit plenty of crap from nails to cans to electrical insulators


My sentiments exactly.

Let me explain why I did this. In no way was I trying to be cool or careless, or suggest that as a proper method of operating a chainsaw. The entire video was a demonstration of the saw. I was attempting to demonstrate that the chain is aggressive yet smooth, and the RPMs the saw is capable of holding in the cut with just that kind of chain. I attempt to demonstrate the entire powerband of my saws when I video them. My builds focus on both RPMs and torque and I try to demonstrate that. Hopefully most were able to see past my "carelessness" and recognize what I was trying to demonstrate.


----------



## Andyshine77

Moparmyway said:


> I have been very vocal about the additional strength that Brad has gotten on his 661 in the cut from his modifications
> 
> I went into my 661 and made it stronger, even communicated in a PM with Brad about it ................
> I put up a video of mine (running .404 and an 8 tooth rim with a 36) and showed what it does in the butt of a hard maple.
> 
> I put up an 066 thats even stronger than my 661 .............. same bar, chain, drive, and wood
> Others put up some very strong 066's in response to someones comment about them not being as strong
> 
> Where is there any pissing on anyone ?
> My 2 videos certainly dont show any shortcomings, nor did jmssaws or Deets videos
> 
> If someone would have put on .375 with a 7 tooth and cut a 22" log with a 36" setup, then I could see how someone MIGHT take that as trying to compete with Brad .................... I havent seen that.
> 
> Its an internet forum thats open to the public Andy, all the videos show some pretty strong saws, so tell me how I should take your post if I am taking it wrong ................ your vagueness leaves too much to be inferred, and also leaves much to be desired


I wasn't specifically referring any video, just a few juvenile comments made. You're way overreacting and seeing something that isn't there. Lighten up guys, or get a life or something. Wow!!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## coltont

That's because his track record has given him a hair trigger.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Andyshine77

coltont said:


> That's because his track record has given him a hair trigger.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


And you obviously have no life.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## coltont

Nope I have a real life. Cutting timber. Being honest. Giving credit where credit is due.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## thomas1

blsnelling said:


> My sentiments exactly.
> 
> Let me explain why I did this. In no way was I trying to be cool or careless, or suggest that as a proper method of operating a chainsaw. The entire video was a demonstration of the saw. I was attempting to demonstrate that the chain is aggressive yet smooth, and the RPMs the saw is capable of holding in the cut with just that kind of chain. I attempt to demonstrate the entire powerband of my saws when I video them. My builds focus on both RPMs and torque and I try to demonstrate that. Hopefully most were able to see past my "carelessness" and recognize what I was trying to demonstrate.



What kind of chain?

Carelessness and stupidity often go hand in hand.


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## KG441c




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## Mastermind

I've had a hell of a week. The engine blew in my loader Sunday. Now it is sitting in the mud behind the shop. I wish I could pull it on up a 100' or so. Now to find a good block, and gather Perkins parts up for a rebuild.

And y'all wanna fuss over some silly chainsaws.


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## spencerpaving

I'm offended.  Not really


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## spencerpaving

Mastermind said:


> I've had a hell of a week. The engine blew in my loader Sunday. Now it is sitting in the mud behind the shop. I wish I could pull it on up a 100' or so. Now to find a good block, and gather Perkins parts up for a rebuild.
> 
> And y'all wanna fuss over some





Mastermind said:


> I've had a hell of a week. The engine blew in my loader Sunday. Now it is sitting in the mud behind the shop. I wish I could pull it on up a 100' or so. Now to find a good block, and gather Perkins parts up for a rebuild.
> 
> And y'all wanna fuss over some silly chainsaws.


What model perkins.....I might know a guy


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## Andyshine77

Mastermind said:


> I've had a hell of a week. The engine blew in my loader Sunday. Now it is sitting in the mud behind the shop. I wish I could pull it on up a 100' or so. Now to find a good block, and gather Perkins parts up for a rebuild.
> 
> And y'all wanna fuss over some silly chainsaws.
> 
> [emoji23]


Sucks about the loader. I hope I never have to work on another engine, it sure gets old after a while.


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## KG441c

Mastermind said:


> I've had a hell of a week. The engine blew in my loader Sunday. Now it is sitting in the mud behind the shop. I wish I could pull it on up a 100' or so. Now to find a good block, and gather Perkins parts up for a rebuild.
> 
> And y'all wanna fuss over some silly chainsaws.


Ya its silly. A man should be able to post his video without getting his nuts drop kicked down his throat at every turn


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## LowVolt

Chiming in just to take jabs...


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## SAWMIKAZE

stihl sawing said:


> What if you hit a nail or any object in the trunk you couldn't see? Not a good practice to show newbies how to run a hopped up big saw with one hand. Like I said why tempt fate.



I dont have much to add..

But if someone is dumb enough to do that with no chainsaw experience that isnt brads fault..

I cut one handed all day today , if one of the neighbors that was watchin copies what i did and gets hurt i can barely see that as my fault..

I saw a guy stick a bottle rocket in his ass at a party once and he got burned pretty good...if i try it next year after a few sodas on the 4th and get burned i dont think ill blame him..


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## jmssaws

I use one hand all the time also, the tip of the bar is what will get you plus he's full growed.


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## maulhead

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I dont have much to add..
> 
> But if someone is dumb enough to do that with no chainsaw experience that isnt brads fault..
> 
> I cut one handed all day today , if one of the neighbors that was watchin copies what i did and gets hurt i can barely see that as my fault..
> 
> *I saw a guy stick a bottle rocket in his ass at a party once *and he got burned pretty good...if i try it next year after a few sodas on the 4th and get burned i dont think ill blame him..


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## redfin

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I dont have much to add..



Who you trying to kid?


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## coltont

Cmon . A site sponser running a saw like a brush ape. You guys chew him up like jerky. I guess it's ok for this guy to run a saw like a dope cause hes a sponser. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## SAWMIKAZE

coltont said:


> Cmon . A site sponser running a saw like a brush ape. You guys chew him up like jerky. I guess it's ok for this guy to run a saw like a dope cause hes a sponser.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Is it really that important ?

Honestly.

Who's the patriarch of the new AS safety committee ?


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## coltont

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Is it really that important ?
> 
> Honestly.
> 
> Who's the patriarch of the new AS safety committee ?


Certainly not me. But being a Chainsaw site and all youd think sponsers would be on point with how to run a "rpm hp boosted" saw. Maybe I'm wrong.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Fifelaker

Kind of reminds me of texting and driving! It may not bite , but why??????


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## Deets066

I run a 24" on my top handle one handed all the time.


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## coltont

Deets066 said:


> I run a 24" on my top handle one handed all the time.


I bet it's full comp to. Your crazy........

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## psuiewalsh

Mastermind said:


> I've had a hell of a week. The engine blew in my loader Sunday. Now it is sitting in the mud behind the shop. I wish I could pull it on up a 100' or so. Now to find a good block, and gather Perkins parts up for a rebuild.
> 
> And y'all wanna fuss over some silly chainsaws.


http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?14-Cummins-6BT-5.9-Conversions/page2


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## Deets066

coltont said:


> I bet it's full comp to. Your crazy........
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Crazily.......sarcastic


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## Stihl 041S

There are a lot of things the a newb or a skilled person does. 
In most professions. 
I check for burrs on the lathe with my finger. While spinning. 
No I don't get cut. 
I know what I was doing leading up to this act. 
A newb might slice his finger. Or maybe not. 
I'd he does, he learned something.
If he doesn't he may think there is nothing to it. 
He'll learn later. 
Brad ain't a newb. He did it knowing what he was doing. 
He knew what he did leading up to it. 


Now back to the 661. The point of this thread.


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## jmssaws

Deets066 said:


> Crazily.......sarcastic


I prefer a 28" on my top handle, it just balances better.


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## big t double

The only real problem that I can see with what he was doin?....he wasnt holding a beer with his free hand. Bad form blsnelling.


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## Deets066

big t double said:


> The only real problem that I can see with what he was doin?....he wasnt holding a beer with his free hand. Bad form blsnelling.


I like to modify my PPE, the saw helmet with face shield and ear muffs. Just remove the muffs and mount the dual beer holders with straws


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## big t double

Deets066 said:


> I like to modify my PPE, the saw helmet with face shield and ear muffs. Just remove the muffs and mount the dual beer holders with straws


You sir...are an f'n genius.


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## jmssaws

Hold my beer and watch this has always treated me right


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## jmssaws

I unfortunately know many loggers that have cut timber there entire lives and drink everyday all day while there doing it, I don't recommend it but it's worked so far for them.
I don't drink and work I'm more of a watcher when I drink.


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## Deets066

jmssaws said:


> I unfortunately know many loggers that have cut timber there entire lives and drink everyday all day while there doing it, I don't recommend it but it's worked so far for them.
> I don't drink and work I'm more of a watcher when I drink.


I know LOTS of iron workers that drink on the job


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## redbull660

Deets066 said:


> I like to modify my PPE, the saw helmet with face shield and ear muffs. Just remove the muffs and mount the dual beer holders with straws



I like your style!


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## SAWMIKAZE

jmssaws said:


> I unfortunately know many loggers that have cut timber there entire lives and drink everyday all day while there doing it, I don't recommend it but it's worked so far for them.
> I don't drink and work I'm more of a watcher when I drink.



Anybody can do it sober..

I didnt think people cut firewood and didnt drink beer until i joined this forum..im serious.


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## jmssaws

The brick layers in St Louis use to have beer breaks. Union died though so I guess they can't anymore.


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## jmssaws

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Anybody can do it sober..


I agree plus it hurts less when a limb smacks ya if your "limber'd" up.

Great avatar, what'd I tell you when you run over that little crippled boy!


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## SAWMIKAZE

jmssaws said:


> I agree plus it hurts less when a limb smacks ya if your "limber'd" up.
> 
> Great avatar, what'd I tell you when you run over that little crippled boy!


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## LowVolt




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## jmssaws

Makes me laugh everytime.


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## Deets066

jmssaws said:


> Makes me laugh everytime.


Love them movies.......Nucga


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## woodcut70

jmssaws said:


> I unfortunately know many loggers that have cut timber there entire lives and drink everyday all day while there doing it, I don't recommend it but it's worked so far for them.
> I don't drink and work I'm more of a watcher when I drink.



It keeps you hydrated!


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## SAWMIKAZE

coltont said:


> Certainly not me. But being a Chainsaw site and all youd think sponsers would be on point with how to run a "rpm hp boosted" saw. Maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Its a good thing the choir on here hasnt seen some of the sh!t the felons ive worked with have done..

I saw a guy hang his bean bag over a tank a baby alligator was in on you tube and that little leather back grabbed ahold of his stones...doesnt mean im gonna try it.

I honestly cant believe the vaginal tendencies on here..i thought when i joined a chainsaw forum id meet a few gruff's like myself...strange mafuccas isnt even the word...

Cyber space..gotta love it !


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## jmssaws

woodcut70 said:


> It keeps you hydrated!


Not really, I tried it and I thought I was gonna die.

It takes a rare breed of hill man to cut and top 50 or 60 trees a day and have 25 or 30 beers while doing it,most have trained there whole lives to achieve that level.


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## Deets066

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Its a good thing the choir on here hasnt seen some of the sh!t the felons ive worked with have done..
> 
> I saw a guy hang his bean bag over a tank a baby alligator was in on you tube and that little leather back grabbed ahold of his stones...doesnt mean im gonna try it..
> 
> I honestly cant believe the vaginal tendencies on here..i thought when i joined a chainsaw forum id meet a few gruff's like myself...strange mafuccas isnt even the word...
> 
> Cyber space..gotta love it !


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## SAWMIKAZE

jmssaws said:


> Not really, I tried it and I thought I was gonna die.
> 
> It takes a rare breed of hill man to cut and top 50 or 60 trees a day and have 25 or 30 beers while doing it,most have trained there whole lives to achieve that level.



My dad always told me drinkin wasnt any different than anything else..if you wanna be good you gotta practice.


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## Deets066

jmssaws said:


> Not really, I tried it and I thought I was gonna die.
> 
> It takes a rare breed of hill man to cut and top 50 or 60 trees a day and have 25 or 30 beers while doing it,most have trained there whole lives to achieve that level.


I could do that easily......








With a D9


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## Deets066

SAWMIKAZE said:


> My dad always told me drinkin wasnt any different than anything else..if you wanna be good you gotta practice.


Can't drink all day unless you start in the morning


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## woodcut70

jmssaws said:


> Not really, I tried it and I thought I was gonna die.
> 
> It takes a rare breed of hill man to cut and top 50 or 60 trees a day and have 25 or 30 beers while doing it,most have trained there whole lives to achieve that level.


 It must be a trained thing. I never had a problem. The more I drink the faster I go.


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## jmssaws

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Its a good thing the choir on here hasnt seen some of the sh!t the felons ive worked with have done..
> 
> I saw a guy hang his bean bag over a tank a baby alligator was in on you tube and that little leather back grabbed ahold of his stones...doesnt mean im gonna try it..
> 
> I honestly cant believe the vaginal tendencies on here..i thought when i joined a chainsaw forum id meet a few gruff's like myself...strange mafuccas isnt even the word...
> 
> Cyber space..gotta love it !


Your perfect for the hills of Missouri, blend right in with us boys.


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## jmssaws

Deets066 said:


> Can't drink all day unless you start in the morning


You do have to get a early start.


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## Mastermind

spencerpaving said:


> What model perkins.....I might know a guy



It's a 4.236 non turbo stress block type. Like a tractor engine rather than one from a chipper, or ginny.

The machine is a 1970 MF300 crawler.






Andyshine77 said:


> Sucks about the loader. I hope I never have to work on another engine, it sure gets old after a while.



I enjoy working on larger equipment, and most farm equipment....

When its sitting in a mud hole though, that sorta takes the fun away.


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## jmssaws

I've rarely cn one break when it wasn't in a mud hole.


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## MustangMike

How did you manage to blow a motor in that Randy? Do you know what went?

I know a guy who repairs those things, and he is actually in the process of moving to your State.

As for Brad demonstrating how the weight of the saw will pull it through the wood, I don't see what the big deal is about it. There was nothing near the tip of the saw, it was fine.

As for having a beer or any other alcoholic beverage, I put it off till after the day is done. There are no second chances with a chainsaw mistake.


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## Mastermind

MustangMike said:


> How did you manage to blow a motor in that Randy? Do you know what went?



The engine had thrown a rod about 12 years ago. It was patched up with a big plate welded on the side. The internal damage wasn't too serious to the main webs or anything though. I do think that the liners were probably dinked a bit though. 

It started blowing white smoke, we pulled the head and found this....


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## Mastermind

I'll get a good used block, and rebuild it. No big deal.


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## MustangMike

Ouch!!! You must have some other nice equipment to move that heavy stuff around, good for you.


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## Mastermind

I've got a John Deere 1120, and a Massey Ferguson 135. But nothing that will pull that loader up outta the mud. The loader weighs just over 13 tons. 

I can get the bucket raised up by using the starter to spin the engine. It will make enough hydraulic pressure that way. Then I can lift the engine out by rigging off of the loader arms.


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## MustangMike

Something tells me you have done this before.

My friends and I still joke about what we used to do to pull engines. We would "borrow" the swing set from the local playground, set it up over the front of the car and use a come along or hoist to pull the engine. It was usually a "group effort".

No one ever complained, because we always returned it and set it up again! Hey, renting a cherry picker cost money!


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## Stihl 041S

Maybe a little lighter.
Clutch of our HD 6 went out in the mud and the skidder yanked it out like nothing. 
I've moved the HD6 with a 60 hp 4wd Deutz on the level. 
Slowly. Lol. 
Good luck Ol Buddy.


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## blsnelling

And while you guys been figurin' out how to drink more beer while cuttin' with one hand, I just finished building another Snellerized 661. Now I have one for both a muh hands!


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## Stihl 041S

Now THATS'S funny.


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## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> And while you guys been figurin' out how to drink more beer while cuttin' with one hand, I just finished building another Snellerized 661. Now I have one for both a muh hands!


Port a 3rd and juggle while cutting!!!


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## Stihl 041S

KG441c said:


> Port a 3rd and juggle while cutting!!!


Now that's just silly and dangerous!!!!!!

And it will go on your Permanent Record Bucko!!!!!


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## blsnelling

KG441c said:


> Port a 3rd and juggle while cutting!!!


Now that you mention it, I do have another one here


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## KG441c

blsnelling said:


> Now that you mention it, I do have another one here


Make sure all 3 r equally ported!! One bad apple may mess up the juggle!!!


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## blsnelling

KG441c said:


> Make sure all 3 r equally ported!! One bad apple may mess up the juggle!!!


There are 3 Snellerized 661s and a brand new one here as well.


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## SAWMIKAZE

Deets066 said:


> Can't drink all day unless you start in the morning



You know what deeter , i was thinkin about this before i crashed last night..the couple dudes i know in the biz who have gotten hurt..they were stone sober at work being safety conscious.

I dont know a single guy who was just chillin with a few guys on a sat or sun cuttin some firewood and drinkin some beers thats ever even had an issue , but those guys are just regular dudes that dont even know what AS is and could care less about snellerized vs tree monkey vs mastermind etc etc..what saws weigh...its scary on here big dawg..real scary


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## Laslabjohn

blsnelling said:


> Now that you mention it, I do have another one here


I'll have one headed your way if you need it.


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