# log arches for steep situation?



## WadePatton (Apr 23, 2011)

Hey yall, long time no post, but here goes: I've got the hots to build a cabin with on-site logs. Problem is that my land is a "finger ridge" and many logs are down the slope a ways-see topo-lots of 30-40+ percent grades (measured with clinometer).

I have in mind to build a mini-arch to be winch-drawn up the hillside, then towed normally once up on the top. Searching all around and all I find are atv/mower pulled stuff--which might work fine, but I'm not running any vehicle on these slopes. It must be pulled from the top. I have a 8000# pickup and a tractor to winch from.

Looking to move 20" logs up to 20' long.

Like to take advantage of all the naturally downed firewood/smokerwood down in the cracks too-it could be bucked much shorter than cabin wood.

What say ye? Anybody done this? No, I don't have a yarder.

View attachment 181203


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## john taliaferro (Apr 23, 2011)

Yarder sure would be sweet ,mill to lighten then swing it home .


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## mtngun (Apr 24, 2011)

No, I've never done it, but often thought about it, because my terrain is similar and the best trees usually seem to be on the downhill side of a very steep hill.

Well, actually, I have drug logs up the hill to a road using a choker cable, but only 30 feet at the most. It's not that hard, except the log occasionally hangs up on a stump, then you have to walk down and work it loose, and it's potentially dangerous to be near an unstable log on a steep hillside.

You'll need a good winch. Preferably hydraulic or PTO. 

I don't see why you need an arch other than to prevent the logs from getting dirty as they are drug along the ground ?


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## WadePatton (Apr 24, 2011)

I've linked several log chains together and pulled firewood before (blacks locust is forever you know), but I want to reach further. The arch is to keep the log from digging in and reduce the load on the winch, but of course increase the path width. Probably use a snatch block or two to guide the cable.

Saw a "skid-cone" somewhere that might all I need--plus the winch and long cable and blocks.

Will certainly have more time/effort into any given log than commercially feasible, but guess what--i gots time and the trees/logs will never be utilized otherwise.

Seen a lot of good wood return to earth on those slopes-and yes, am aware that a miss-step can hasten my demise as well. But if I get something worked out, I'll be able to recover logs to sell to sawyers too. The place was logged hard about 25 years ago. I'm not willing to rip it all up again, but have some usable timber.


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## peterrum (Apr 24, 2011)

I think a skid cone or bevelling the front edge of the log is the way to go. I have done the latter with little difficulty on logs of 10 ft.


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## WadePatton (Apr 24, 2011)

Hey, bevel! duh, that will certainly help. and a few roller logs along the way. 

But of course my fabricator friend, who has built about 16 log splitters from scrapyard parts (primarily) needs another project. Until then I can use the boom on the tractor for work up top.


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## KiwiBro (May 3, 2011)

If I hadn't had done this myself I would not have believed how effective it could be. I had a similar situation many moons ago - about 600 pines on a steep slope and the only way out was up and over. A skid cone was suggested, here's a link to one for reference:
NovaJack

and I thought I'd try a regular plastic drum. I didn't hold out much hope because the bottom of the drum is flat, but it did have a small taper to the bottom that started about a foot up from the bottom.
I just drilled a hole in the middle of the bottom big enough to get the chain through and that was all I did. Cost about $10 and took one minute, and it really works.

Before then I would often get snagged on stumps/trunks or the banks of steeper sections. Remarkably, skid mach II as I dubbed it never snagged on anything, even with the big flat of the bottom of the drum. At one point, skidding logs sideways up the hill, with about three or four standing trees or stumps for the logs to roll into and snag on as they came up the hill, I felt for sure it would snag, but, nup. I had to get someone else up on the hill to haul them while I stood on the hill to see for myself how the drum helped ease the logs around/over obstacles. It was great to see.

I'd post a pic of the drum but it has since been hacked into pieces for other projects, but it's a standard plastic drum with opening big enough to take about a 2 foot log diameter, from memory. 

Do try it before hitting the more expensive options. I was very surprised it worked so well.


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## gemniii (May 3, 2011)

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm08512W03/page06.htm

and

http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf99242820/pdf99242820pt01.pdf

and check out the Bitterroot mini yarder


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## qbilder (May 3, 2011)

Wow thanks Kiwibro. That's a great idea. I am in a similar situation with trying to figure out how to get logs from a remote area of my property. It's in the Appalachians of southern Ohio and it's a lot of very steep, deep grades. But the best trees are on the slope, not the ridge. What worries me is that I have to drag a log up, then go back down with it. Going down is what scares me. All i'll be towing with is an ATV. Good thing is that my logs will be bucked at only 8' and will be 12"-20" diameter. Still scary going downhill with the log behind me, though.


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## olyman (May 3, 2011)

some guys have talked about--taking the hood off of a car..set that under the log,and punch two holes thru it,,for the chain to go thru,,then wrap the chain around the log,,where it will be on the hood,not dragging the ground-----and the hoods can be bent,dinged,whatever,,ground doesnt care.......---


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## KiwiBro (May 3, 2011)

qbilder said:


> Wow thanks Kiwibro. That's a great idea. I am in a similar situation with trying to figure out how to get logs from a remote area of my property. It's in the Appalachians of southern Ohio and it's a lot of very steep, deep grades. But the best trees are on the slope, not the ridge. What worries me is that I have to drag a log up, then go back down with it. Going down is what scares me. All i'll be towing with is an ATV. Good thing is that my logs will be bucked at only 8' and will be 12"-20" diameter. Still scary going downhill with the log behind me, though.


If there is more uphill than down, you could always rope another log that's located down the slope, to one you've just hauled up it and are intending to drag down the other side. This keeps tension on the log you are dragging down the hill while also dragging another one up to or near the top of your hill.

Alternatively, if only small sections of log, then perhaps you could haul them up to a staging area on or just over the brow, and rope three together for the downhill leg so there is less chance of them rolling?

Oh, and regarding the uphill legs, a gin pole works wonders too. In my case, I just left a few of the top trees standing and tied a snatch block to them and fed the rope through that and down to the logs. I only used it for the really steep sections or large logs because it was inconvenient having to release the line from the block before the log could be pulled passed the block. I also spray painted a section of the line and put a marker in the ground so I could tell the log was hauled up as far as it could safely go - because I couldn't see log nor block while over the brow hauling the line. I could only see the line. From experience, I can tell you it does nothing good for the line nor block to try forcing chain nor log through the snatch block.


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## Wilson_tree (May 3, 2011)

The skid cone works very well. It rolls off trunks and hops over stumps. Keeps the log clean and reduces the force needed to skid a log by half. My sinlge horse can do double the work with the skid cone. I think my skid cone can only handle 18 inch diameter logs, but i can't remember for sure. Sling a block 10 or 15 feet up a tree to provide some lift and you can do a lot. I just did some salvage of logs from a log jam in the river and used a long rope through the elevated block and pulled with my truck. It's easy to reach 150 feet, just a pain to walk back and forth between log and log puller.


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## rarefish383 (May 4, 2011)

This has worked well for me. I have a 300ft length of 5/8 inch Bull line we used doing tree work. I find 2 forked trees close to where I want my logs. Take a shorter piece and throw it through the crotches and tie them off around the trunks. Hang a snatch block 10 to 20 feet off the ground. Run the long rope through the snatch block and tie around one end of log. A 3/4 ton pick up will snatch the front end of the log up off the ground and only a short piece on the down hill side will get dirty dragging up. Put some roller logs under the snatch block and set the log down on them when it gets to the top, Joe.


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## WadePatton (May 4, 2011)

there we go, plenty of ideas to work with. thanks, i'll report when i get 'round to actually doing something.


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## cowtipper (May 5, 2011)

rarefish383 said:


> ...Hang a snatch block 10 to 20 feet off the ground...


 


Wilson_tree said:


> ...Sling a block 10 or 15 feet up a tree to provide some lift and you can do a lot...



I'm thinking of doing the same thing, what kind of knot do you use?


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## MR4WD (May 5, 2011)

I've done this a lot as well. You need a lot of lift in order to effeciently drag sticks up the hill, the more the better. We've worked with everything in height up to about 60'. Having the ability to climb helps as well.

The best way is to rig a block in a tree and run a rope through it down to the log. I've had bad luck with tapering the log, or cutting a cone into it. They sharp parts seem to find roots and really wedge themselves in there. The best thing is you can pull in any direction from the block (along a road, ditch or fencerow) and you don't have to back the item straight up the hill. Use a self minding block where the pulley stays down. Sometimes when your hauling up slack the block will flip and you'll pull on the side of the block (gate) and that's no good for anything.

If you're worried about knots, just use a hank of rope 10' long or so and double wrap it in a basket (so it doesn't slide) or basket it in a crotch and tie a bowline in each end, hang your block in both ends of the rope, you don't want to choke a rope in this situation. For mainline, we used around 2-300' of rope, just use a sheepshank to attatch it to the the truck and hang the slack off the mirror or something.

As for the log, we've had good luck with chaining or cabling the end and attatching a rope to that, since rope wears pretty quick.

We use a lot of 5/8 or 3/4 tenex, which is tough stuff. I've used 1/4" in a bind and never had it break. It's all about clearing a path and getting enough lift.

Even the heaviest of objects is easy to move once you get the top up, small pickup would be fine.

If your rope does break or the object snags, climb back down and tie it off with another hank of rope to a tree or something while you unfoul it. Logs can take off in a hurry and it's usually harder to dig them back out and get them moving again once they roll down the hill.


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## MR4WD (May 5, 2011)

Option#2 for the high ball logs is to get a monster bull line, 3/4" or better and run it from the top of the hill to the bottom, hanging it in a tree on both ends. We just tied it off at the bottom and took up slack with a machine at the top end, (pickup no.1)

It gets tricky from there, but if you have a length of small rope you can tie it to the log, then to a block you hang off the mainline. From that block, you need to run a small rope back up the hill to the where the mainline is in the block and hang the 3rd block fairly close to where the mainline is.

Use pickup 1 to tension the mainline, then tie the haulback to pickup 2. Once the haulback is tensioned use pickup 2 to pull the item up the hill. Once at the top, keep tension on the haulback and drive pickup 1 ahead and drop the load to the ground.

It`s like a mini yarder set up, but it`s fast and effecient with no terrain damage. We`ve got a system ironed out where we could haul 80`cedars up cliff sides with no damage to anything in about 2 hours, start to finish.


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## rarefish383 (May 6, 2011)

My favorite knot for most every thing is a bowline. I would also use timber hitches. I would get one end through a crotch on the first tree and tie that end off with a timber hitch, to the trunk of the same tree. Then I'd thread the snatch block on the line, probably let it run free, no knots. Throw the other end through the second tree and pull the hitch up tight and tie another timber hitch to the trunk of that tree. With weight the snatch block will pretty much center itself. If I get up to the farm in the next couple weeks I'll take some pics and maybe try my first shot at a video, Joe.


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## Wilson_tree (May 6, 2011)

There are a few simple ways to secure your pulley up a tree. A ladder or throw line can help you get higher in the tree.

1. Use a loop sling and just girth hitch it
2. Use a timber hitch, but you have to keep track so it doesn't roll out with use
3. Put your block on one end of your rope and throw it through a crotch in the tree. Secure the other end near the ground. this allows you to raise and lower your pulley as needed.


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