# some advice for a tree removal



## newguy18 (May 31, 2007)

hi my names bill howe and i do not do trees professionally yet and a friend of mine had me trimming a tree for him on monday.i do know a lot about trees and proper pruning and trimming practices but as i was doing it i found it has a cavity on one side oak wilt and it has heart rot. i told him that it was unsafe for his fence and power lines but it is not near his house.it is a good sized tree for this area eight ft diameter 110 ft canopy spread and seventy five foot tall.i already took the limbs out of the power but he wants it pieced out for fire wood and i have never done somting this big before. any advice would be greatly appreciated.my plan is to tie in with my climb line saftey and spurs. and because it is rotton but alive i will be taking pieces about fire wood length so i dont split it out and cause an accident. :chainsawguy: :newbie: :bang:


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## ddhlakebound (May 31, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> hi my names bill howe and i do not do trees professionally yet and a friend of mine had me trimming a tree for him on monday.i do know a lot about trees and proper pruning and trimming practices but as i was doing it i found it has a cavity on one side oak wilt and it has heart rot. i told him that it was unsafe for his fence and power lines but it is not near his house.it is a good sized tree for this area eight ft diameter 110 ft canopy spread and seventy five foot tall.i already took the limbs out of the power but he wants it pieced out for fire wood and i have never done somting this big before. any advice would be greatly appreciated.my plan is to tie in with my climb line saftey and spurs. and because it is rotton but alive i will be taking pieces about fire wood length so i dont split it out and cause an accident. :chainsawguy: :newbie: :bang:



PM god and ask him to help.....ur gonna need it. 

Not very responsible to trim limbs near power lines without training. 

Not very wise to know you don't have the training, and decide to do it anyway.

My advice? Have a pro put it on the ground, and go from there.


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## Ed Roland (May 31, 2007)

Call in a professional. This will end badly, otherwise. 

:chainsawguy:


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## newguy18 (May 31, 2007)

*i have some experiance*



woodweasel said:


> Call in a professional. This will end badly, otherwise.
> 
> :chainsawguy:



i have been rec climbing for a year and a half i know how to set wraps and have done three previous tree jobs two were trimming about thirty feet up one in power and the other was a removal a sixty foot tall pine and it was over a house. i can do the work i just havent done any thing that big before and was wanting some advice and was wondering if my plan was safe or not i think it is.:monkey:


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## Treeman587 (May 31, 2007)

*We all have to start somewhere.*



newguy18 said:


> i have been rec climbing for a year and a half i know how to set wraps and have done three previous tree jobs two were trimming about thirty feet up one in power and the other was a removal a sixty foot tall pine and it was over a house. i can do the work i just havent done any thing that big before and was wanting some advice and was wondering if my plan was safe or not i think it is.:monkey:




Soo, You know just enough to be dangerous.

Let someone with real experience handle it. In time, you will gain your own. Rec climbing has absolutely nothing to do with removals. Every climber on here has done something stupid, and each is lucky they learned from a mistake that did not kill them.


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## Ed Roland (May 31, 2007)

Resistograph the decay. Know for sure you have a tree you can safely climb *as well as shock load*. Those power lines exacerbate an, already, risky removal. 

Consider, hiring someone who does this sort of thing every day of the work week. Make sure they are certified and have insurance. Have them put it "safely" on the ground for you. Very reasonable if they can leave the wood/brush on the ground.


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## beowulf343 (May 31, 2007)

You asked for advice and you got it (from guys that i'm sure have done more than three tree.) Big difference between rec climbing and climbing to do a job. Hell, three trees? You haven't even begun to experience everything that can go wrong on a takedown (and how quickly things can go wrong!)

Oh, wait a minute, just remembered from past posts that you have done alot of reading on the subject-heck go for it then. You're a rec climber with a ton of book knowledge-what can go wrong? From the pictures in the books, it looks easy, doesn't it?

Hope you're not married with kids.


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## newguy18 (May 31, 2007)

*thanks for the advice*



beowulf343 said:


> You asked for advice and you got it (from guys that i'm sure have done more than three tree.) Big difference between rec climbing and climbing to do a job. Hell, three trees? You haven't even begun to experience everything that can go wrong on a takedown (and how quickly things can go wrong!)
> 
> Oh, wait a minute, just remembered from past posts that you have done alot of reading on the subject-heck go for it then. You're a rec climber with a ton of book knowledge-what can go wrong? From the pictures in the books, it looks easy, doesn't it?
> 
> Hope you're not married with kids.



no i am not married or dating for that matter. i want to thank every one for your in put on the matter but i am sticking with my original game plan i can free fall everything but one small limb that is over his fence because i already dealt with the dangerous limb that was in power. i will be sure to post about how the removal wen t after im done with it.


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## Ed Roland (May 31, 2007)

How can you be sure the tree can support you and your equipment above that rot? 

You specifically, mentioned two vascular diseases. I suspect you saw wet spongy material within the cavity. 

The wood holding the thousands of pounds of crown above is said to be "holding." You tying in, about 200lbs with equip., may exceed the capabilities of that hold wood while you try to piece this thing out.

be smart. be safe.


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## Treeman587 (May 31, 2007)

Whatever, He's an idiot.

A lot of you new guys and wannabes come on here asking our opinion then shove it back at us. So here goes, YOU ARE A MORON. If you live through it I am sure you will be back on here to brag. If not, WE TOLD YOU SO.

You think I just strapped on some gaffs one day and decided I was a tree climber? I am not a great one by any means, But I can do the job and have enough experience to trust my own judgement. It takes time, and you have to learn from people who have put their time in. 

Whatever IDIOT, I am sure you know how to make a top cut so it does not smash your face in. See YA


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## Treeman587 (May 31, 2007)

Oh and Beowulf, You make a great point. 

BTW I climbed three trees yesterday. I climbed three the day before that. And on and on, Not just three in my career.


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## ropensaddle (May 31, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> no i am not married or dating for that matter. i want to thank every one for your in put on the matter but i am sticking with my original game plan i can free fall everything but one small limb that is over his fence because i already dealt with the dangerous limb that was in power. i will be sure to post about how the removal wen t after im done with it.


Well I will give you credit for bravery, however you are breaking law trimming near powerlines and can get a salty fine for doing so. That is if you are not electrocuted as many other people that have worked near them have. These people were trained line clearance pros with more experience in their little toe than you exhibit. I won't comment on the moron part but you may be committing suicide I have worked near powerlines over twenty years starting out with training eventually being the trainer and I know you are flirting with disaster.


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## ddhlakebound (May 31, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> no i am not married or dating for that matter. i want to thank every one for your in put on the matter but i am sticking with my original game plan i can free fall everything but one small limb that is over his fence because i already dealt with the dangerous limb that was in power. i will be sure to post about how the removal wen t after im done with it.
> 
> Heres the plan:
> my plan is to tie in with my climb line saftey and spurs. and because it is rotton but alive i will be taking pieces about fire wood length so i dont split it out and cause an accident.



I'm glad you've got it all figured out. Great plan btw....wear my spikes to climb up, tie in with my rope, and cut pieces off it. With attention to detail like that, I'm sure you'll be fine. 

When you're reporting how it went, be sure to post some pics, before, during, and after. Especially the one showing us the 8' wide stump. 

Be sure to wear LOTS of PPE, and tie in twice while you're cutting. (Maybe three times in your case):monkey:


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## Mitchell (Jun 1, 2007)

*Why re-invent the wheel*

newguy18

Sounds like you have the balls for it, but that is only a part of the equation. 

I did a few simple trees myself and recognized it was more then a "how hard can it be type of job." In retrospect, I came closer then I realized at the time to seriously hurting or killing myself despite 13 years of falling and logging sport climbing.
In response, I worked for free initially for another tree company on the condition they show me the "ropes" of climbing and rigging so I would not get stuck feeding chipper. I also hire other experienced arborists to come to jobs just to be my ground guy and offer advice when I am not comfortable. I am happy to break even on these jobs as I look at it as education and insurance expenses. I also sub out things like resistograph tree assessments but still come to the job for free to learn. 
You are here seeking education and information after all, why not hire some one to walk you through it, money? Sounds like your buddy expects to pay for this. There is no substitute for the right tools and knowledge for the job. What will this cost you if it goes south; even a minor mishap should cost you any future business from the neighbours. At least get or pay for an experienced guys on site opinion.

Also recognize that one can with a bit of knowledge truely butcher a tree and not get into to much trouble most of the time... most of the time. Be carefull not to mistake "alls well that ends well" experiences for competence.

Hope you reconsider


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## Canyonbc (Jun 1, 2007)

Mitchell...you gave the guy i think the best advice...

he has balls, you have to give him that. It sounds like the tree is definetly way out of is league..heck i know is out of mine...Oaks can be nasty...espically when diseased like that.

Harping on him is gonna do no good, besides piss him off...get him rialed up out there and possible hurt him self or someone else

Mitchell has the right idea, its gets the best of both worlds...a experinced Arborist with proper knowledge and experince can show/help him, and new guy can help the experinced arborist rig this thing down. 

Best of luck to you though new guy...i would serious look up or put up a post on the site about climbers in your area who would be intrested in helping you


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## pbtree (Jun 1, 2007)

:newbie: with a know it all attitude - Wowsers...opcorn:


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## treeseer (Jun 1, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> it has a cavity on one side oak wilt and it has heart rot. i told him that it was unsafe for his fence and power lines


Sounds like you told him this based on very little inspection or knowledge. Condemning a tree after noticing a hole is doing no favor to your friend or yourself, unless you are so desparate for work that you have to make stuff up. Either learn to assess tree risk competently, or don't do it.

Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to calculate and clearly communicate to the owners the risk associated with their tree, and what they can do about it. “Risk” means danger, the possibility of suffering loss. The reality is, everything carries risk. A “defect” has been defined as a visible sign that a tree has the potential to fail. However, since every tree has the potential to fail, the questions of how visible, and how much potential, remain. Any harmless feature of a tree that looks unfamiliar to the inexperienced observer can be called a defect that creates a “hazard tree”, defined as a tree with an unacceptable level of risk to a target. The question is, what can be done about it? All risks can be lowered (abated, mitigated, lessened), but when arboricultural options are not carefully considered and clearly communicated, the owners cannot make an informed decision. Quickly labeling “defects” and “hazards” can lead to the needless removal of valuable trees, when more conservative actions may have been more reasonable.


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## newguy18 (Jun 1, 2007)

*you got it all wrong*



treeseer said:


> Sounds like you told him this based on very little inspection or knowledge. Condemning a tree after noticing a hole is doing no favor to your friend or yourself, unless you are so desparate for work that you have to make stuff up. Either learn to assess tree risk competently, or don't do it.
> 
> Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to calculate and clearly communicate to the owners the risk associated with their tree, and what they can do about it. “Risk” means danger, the possibility of suffering loss. The reality is, everything carries risk. A “defect” has been defined as a visible sign that a tree has the potential to fail. However, since every tree has the potential to fail, the questions of how visible, and how much potential, remain. Any harmless feature of a tree that looks unfamiliar to the inexperienced observer can be called a defect that creates a “hazard tree”, defined as a tree with an unacceptable level of risk to a target. The question is, what can be done about it? All risks can be lowered (abated, mitigated, lessened), but when arboricultural options are not carefully considered and clearly communicated, the owners cannot make an informed decision. Quickly labeling “defects” and “hazards” can lead to the needless removal of valuable trees, when more conservative actions may have been more reasonable.



ok for one i told him it did pose a risk.two he suggested that i remove it .three i know that i can remove it if i go slow and take it nice and easy i know many of you think i should call a pro to do it but that is not an option on the other hand i could ask a pro to watch me and help if it goes south, which it wont.i look at it this way you cant learn with out some experiance you can only get experiance by doing the work.i know from reading and what little tree work i have done that it is much harder to do it than to read about it and any one who says other wise is a complete and total idiot.all i wanted was some advice from some who worked a tree that rotton and if they had some pointers if i wanted to hear stay on the ground kid i would have asked for such.i have read and respect everyones opion i will post about it after the job in detail but sorry no pics my computer wont handle it. bill howe:newbie: :chainsawguy: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ddhlakebound (Jun 1, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> ok for one i told him it did pose a risk.two he suggested that i remove it .three i know that i can remove it if i go slow and take it nice and easy i know many of you think i should call a pro to do it but that is not an option on the other hand i could ask a pro to watch me and help if it goes south, which it wont.i look at it this way you cant learn with out some experiance you can only get experiance by doing the work.i know from reading and what little tree work i have done that it is much harder to do it than to read about it and any one who says other wise is a complete and total idiot.all i wanted was some advice from some who worked a tree that rotton and if they had some pointers if i wanted to hear stay on the ground kid i would have asked for such.i have read and respect everyones opin i will post about it after the job in detail but sorry no pics my computer wont handle it. bill howe:newbie: :chainsawguy: :hmm3grin2orange:



WoW!!!.......sure is easy for you to tell the certified master arborist that he's got it all wrong. 

Would you mind detailing what methods you used to determine wether or not the tree posed a level of risk which made it necessary for removal, and on top of that, safe for climbing removal? 

Its targets are a powerline and a fence? It can be trimmed to be weighted away from the powerline, and fences are much easier to replace than ancient oak trees.

Why am I even talkin tho......I'm sure that you know better than anyone else here, thats why you're here askin for opinions, right?


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## Ed Roland (Jun 1, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> complete and total idiot.all i wanted was some advice from some who worked a tree that rotton and if they had some pointers if i wanted to hear stay on the ground kid i would have asked for such. bill howe:newbie: :chainsawguy: :hmm3grin2orange:



this is a farse. Troll, even.


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## Treeman587 (Jun 1, 2007)

You havent got that damn thing down yet?

Quit talkin about it and do the damn thing.

You know the saying, I use it all the time, "Ain't nothin to it but to do it"


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## Ekka (Jun 2, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> i already took the limbs out of the power



Did you climb it?

How much weight did you remove do you think?

Is the tree evenly weighted, leaning etc?

Roots work like ropes, only in tension. Think about that when you're working on this tree. If there's a big open cavity on one side of the tree it is likely that there's not much root there so take weight off the side opposite that ... do you understand? But easy she goes, reduce some weight next over the bad side and bit by bit keep reducing.

Also cut off pieces where you do not have to rig first. If you are rigging ensure you set the block above a clear LZ so you can let em run straight to the ground ... no shock loads.

Be smart, read the tree, work the scene intelligently, get a lowering device for smoothness of rigging.

Good luck!


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## rbtree (Jun 2, 2007)

good advice, Ekka. But he already said that only one small limb needed rigging. The rest could be dropped, including the wood.


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## Canyonbc (Jun 2, 2007)

i think it was well i am forgetting but having another arborist help him and ekka advicce is the best...ok not the best...handing the job off to someone with experince in this is the best

but new guy is detrmined i think we all have gotten are selves into things over are head from time to time...not sure about this deep

but being smart is your best bet 

good luck...i want to see pictures and soon


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## Dadatwins (Jun 2, 2007)

I never stop being amazed at the folks that come on this site asking for advice from the pros, get the good advice that is needed, and then proceed to go off on their original plan anyway dismissing the advice as 'all wrong'. Another wasted thread.


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## treeseer (Jun 2, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> ok for one i told him it did pose a risk.


So what? Getting out of bed poses a risk. Staying in bed poses a higher risk! Sounds like you succeeded in scaring your friend into giving you work based on seeing a cavity. If the risk was so bad, how do you know it was safe to climb?

Risk is a fact of life--it’s only a matter of degree. It is important to remember that there is no zero-risk scenario. An experienced arborist can inspect a tree, assess in relative terms the risk of failure and the risk of harm, and describe reasonable actions that can lower those risks.


It soon becomes clear that the kind of professional assessment that minimizes liability for all concerned takes a lot of valuable time. You should be paid for this time, and if you are not, think carefully before offering an opinion. Getting paid for assessment affords the time needed to put together and write down a report that a tree owner can use. It also removes the appearance of bias, since assessors will not be compelled to sell maintenance or removal to justify their assessment time. Risk assessment is a distinct service, best done independently, and separate from the sale of tree care services.


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## nytreeman (Jun 2, 2007)

*Newguy,You seem to ignore advice from those of us who do this for a living and who after countless takedowns still continue to learn,because every tree is different and climbing poses its own risks,esp when compiled with the dangers of a removal of a hazardous tree *


newguy18 said:


> i can do the work i just havent done any thing that big before and was wanting some advice and was wondering if my plan was safe or not i think it is



*
If you have to ask that question then perhaps it's not?*


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## Mitchell (Jun 2, 2007)

*advice for all the new guys*

thanks canyon for recognizing my post was designed to pursued, probably not Mr Bill How, but perhaps the next guy who reads this....

Posts here have rightfully talked tree about risk assessment. Newguy people who do any dangerous work need a sensible personal risk management. this link http://www.smartrisk.ca/ContentDirector.aspx?tp=5187 talks a bit about developing risk management for folks who push [typically children {no offense intended] the envelope of personal risk. Notice the article about the Canadian air force air demonstration pilot who died recently in Montana plying his trade; I knew that person and he was very much the professional who did things right...

Newguy18 sounds like you only want advice you want to hear. going it yourself against conventional wisdom can be positive under the right circumstances; we would all still be hucking rocks at ostriches if no one ever challenged the establishment. However seems like you are about to huck a rock at a saber tooth tiger....


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## nytreeman (Jun 2, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> Newguy18 sounds like you only want advice you want to hear. going it yourself against conventional wisdom can be positive under the right circumstances; we would all still be hucking rocks at ostriches if no one ever challenged the establishment. However seems like you are about to huck a rock at a saber tooth tiger....



*And if your unexperienced you can get in trouble fast, we have all have had trees that try to bite back*


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## newguy18 (Jun 2, 2007)

*does this help?*



nytreeman said:


> *And if your unexperienced you can get in trouble fast, we have all have had trees that try to bite back*



i forgot to mention that i took probably 900 lbs of limbs out of it one midsized limb that was about 9 inch at trunk 25 ft long and on large one that i headed back about half way to 2 ascending limbs that go straight up. a twenty inch barely cleared the limb when i cut it.:newbie: :chainsawguy: :bang:


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## nytreeman (Jun 2, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> hi my names bill howe and i do not do trees ..............because it is rotton but alive i will be taking pieces about fire wood length so i dont split it out and cause an accident.





newguy18 said:


> i forgot to mention that i took probably 900 lbs of limbs out of it one midsized limb that was about 9 inch at trunk 25 ft long and on large one that i headed back about half way to 2 ascending limbs that go straight up. a twenty inch barely cleared the limb when i cut it.



*careful cutting big if it that hollow/rotten oak  pops apart when your tied in to it,don't have that moment of clarity just a little too late*


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## newguy18 (Jun 2, 2007)

*dont worry*



nytreeman said:


> *careful cutting big if it that hollow/rotten oak  pops apart when your tied in to it,don't have that moment of clarity just a little too late*



i pieced them out in fire wood lengths the limb in power did not have rot but that large one i pieced out and headed back about 6 ic\nchs of the center was completly soft and rotton. i dont drop pieces larger than 24 inches long out of any tree for that matter.:chainsawguy: :bang: :newbie:


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## Sprig (Jun 2, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> i pieced them out in fire wood lengths the limb in power did not have rot but that large one i pieced out and headed back about 6 ic\nchs of the center was completly soft and rotton. i dont drop pieces larger than 24 inches long out of any tree for that matter.:chainsawguy: :bang: :newbie:


Having done only a couple of trees I'd guess ya don't at that. Don't be getting defensive newguy, the guys here have a wealth of experience and knowlege, nothing to sneeze at, and _your_ safety is the prime concern here. You admit a lack of knowlege and people are trying to help, thats all. It is smart that you are blocking down in small chunks imo. as that reduces the risk of shock loads as Ekka wisely pointed out, that was a good post there Ekka (and others too but his was packaged nicely  ). Since you appear determined to get this tree down then just go do it but do not foresake the advice that has been given. For that matter you haven't told us what you are using as tools/equipment for this undertaking either, and for Dogs sake get some pics of the job to stop our second-guessing things.
Nothing left ta say from this end :rockn: :rockn: 



Serge


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## Canyonbc (Jun 2, 2007)

New guy...i saw your profile said you were 18...then maybe i can get to you..i am 19...i am taking it your stuborn and want to get this thing down just because...i have been like that we all have been...but your young just like me...

we have are whole lives ahead of us...a while back i put a post about a 80 ft pine...the guys quickly wised me up...to that tree was out of my league..

dont fight with them, understand everyone is here to help you..as others have sad...YOUR SAFETY..

your hole life is ahead of...dont let one Oak tree...end that for you...

But as i am sure this wont make a difference in your decison to doing the tree...i would like and i am sure everyone else before and after pictures...maybe a viedo or two...too

best of luck


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## newguy18 (Jun 2, 2007)

*my set up*



Sprig said:


> Having done only a couple of trees I'd guess ya don't at that. Don't be getting defensive newguy, the guys here have a wealth of experience and knowlege, nothing to sneeze at, and _your_ safety is the prime concern here. You admit a lack of knowlege and people are trying to help, thats all. It is smart that you are blocking down in small chunks imo. as that reduces the risk of shock loads as Ekka wisely pointed out, that was a good post there Ekka (and others too but his was packaged nicely  ). Since you appear determined to get this tree down then just go do it but do not foresake the advice that has been given. For that matter you haven't told us what you are using as tools/equipment for this undertaking either, and for Dogs sake get some pics of the job to stop our second-guessing things.
> Nothing left ta say from this end :rockn: :rockn:
> 
> 
> ...


 i will be useing a husky 51 with a 16 inch bar for the most part but will put the 20 incher on it for some of the limbs.ihave a few handsaws 100 ft climb line my saftey and of course spikes and my el cheapo saddle.i cant put pics on computer is to small.i will tell how it goes when i do it.i have read all advice given and with the advice of another pro who has done it for some time who is not an as member i have elected to do it my self.i also offered other alternatives for the tree trimming to weight it away from lines and fences and cabling but ray said he dont want the tree just take it down. i respect all advice given but i believe i will do fine.all the best and god bless. bill howe.p.s my personal saftey dont matter to me i aint suicidal or any thing i just dont care or worry for that matter.god protects me.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ropensaddle (Jun 2, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> i will be useing a husky 51 with a 16 inch bar for the most part but will put the 20 incher on it for some of the limbs.ihave a few handsaws 100 ft climb line my saftey and of course spikes and my el cheapo saddle.i cant put pics on computer is to small.i will tell how it goes when i do it.i have read all advice given and with the advice of another pro who has done it for some time who is not an as member i have elected to do it my self.i also offered other alternatives for the tree trimming to weight it away from lines and fences and cabling but ray said he dont want the tree just take it down. i respect all advice given but i believe i will do fine.all the best and god bless. bill howe.p.s my personal saftey dont matter to me i aint suicidal or any thing i just dont care or worry for that matter.god protects me.:hmm3grin2orange:



Ok if you are going to do it remember that you are breaking law and could be fined for getting closer than ten foot to a powerline. It is illegal for a tree trimmer to get closer than ten foot unless he is a line clearance professional you are breaking law and can be fined. Just want you to know. 
Best part is if you call them they will clear lines for you usually no charge so let the pros handle it I have seen electrocution not pretty.


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## beowulf343 (Jun 2, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> my personal saftey dont matter to me i aint suicidal or any thing i just dont care or worry for that matter.god protects me.:hmm3grin2orange:




Ok-that may be the stupidest thing you've said on this thread. According to your logic, we should be able to walk off a bridge with no ill effect simply because "God will protect us?" COME ON!!!

I am a believer in God myself and am not making fun of your religious beliefs. But if you believe "God will protect us", then maybe you need to read some of the posts on the injury/fatality thread. Why wasn't God protecting them? God gave us a brain-use it!!!


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## Canyonbc (Jun 3, 2007)

I dont no how many of us are religous out there..but i am some what i go to church on sunday and believe in god...

but i think their is a reason god gave us a brain...i always thought it was for us to use...i mean common have soe faith, but dude seriously now...

Your are like that joke the little kid told his dad in the pursuit of Happines...a man boat flipped or something two differnt ships came by stopped and asked him if he needed help...and the man replied no god will save me. The man later died, he drowned. When he got to Heaven, he spoke with god and was like hey why didnt you save me...god replied i tried to you idiot i sent you two rescue boats...

Newguy...if you truly do believe in god, then maybe he is trying to tell you something...their are tons of Professional Arborist...men who have dedicated their lives...to trees...

They are saying what are you doing...giving you alternative ideas..

Another guy just posted about you breaking the law..being so close to the wires..

The oak is diseased...oaks can be hollow...

One of my best friends dad....was using a pole saw cutting down a oak branch around 9 inches in diamter guess what it was hollow and killed him...a innocent good man

All i am saying is be smart. god gave you a brain for a reason...use it


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## ropensaddle (Jun 3, 2007)

Canyonbc said:


> I dont no how many of us are religous out there..but i am some what i go to church on sunday and believe in god...
> 
> but i think their is a reason god gave us a brain...i always thought it was for us to use...i mean common have soe faith, but dude seriously now...
> 
> ...


 +1


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## SRT-Tech (Jun 3, 2007)

SAAAAAAAYYYYYY...in the spirit of this thread, anyone an electrician here? :biggrinbounce2: see...i gots this 100,000volt main trunkline that i want to splice a few leads into....so i can run 500 feet of copper housewire out to the field, see? my plan is to drive rebar into the wet ground and wrap the copper around the rebar see? i want to keep them pesky deer outta my weed garden...they are cutting into my profits see......

so is this the best route to go? i read a book once and learned sum basic electricity by reading a few catalogs, and plan to do this anyways tommorow. but i still want to hear your opinion eh, cuz i'm stuboorn and like to argue....


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## SRT-Tech (Jun 3, 2007)

SSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRCCCCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!! :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy:


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## Ekka (Jun 3, 2007)

Darn this thread went to chit fast and now you all laying the boots in ... lighten up a bit guys eh? He's already taken 900lbs off, he will get there.

God will protect you, who do you think gave us the idea for making and wearing chaps? Now it's the devil who'll tell ya you dont need them!


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## nytreeman (Jun 3, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> i respect all advice given but i believe i will do fine.all the best and god bless. bill howe.p.s my personal saftey dont matter to me i aint suicidal or any thing i just dont care or worry for that matter.god protects me.



:jawdrop: I believe in God,I also believe that I have sense enough to not climb too high in that dead elm or to tie in twice maybe even 3 times when I'm in a some precarious,sketchy spot,or to come down when that lightnings acomin.
I also believe in calling in a bucket on those rare occasions when I just don't trust climbing that tree or a crane because that 75 ft silver maple is just so hollow and so heavy and what if it should split out?

*treeseer *is right on the money saying it's all about accessing the risk and knowing limitations,yours and the trees
youve got your whole life ahead of you dont have your 15 mins of fame be a news clip of some local kid who died in a buddies tree


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## Mitchell (Jun 3, 2007)

*god*

my priest once said "God helps those that help themselves"...
Figures your 19 Bill. Ever wonder why the military almost exclusively recruits young kids; don't worry you'll be the one to make it through. 
I expect in 5 or so years, hopefully sooner, you'll resurrect this post and let us know how wrong your were. 
GOOD LUCK for the in-term


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## beelsr (Jun 3, 2007)

SRT-Tech said:


> SAAAAAAAYYYYYY...in the spirit of this thread, anyone an electrician here? :biggrinbounce2: see...i gots this 100,000volt main trunkline that i want to splice a few leads into....so i can run 500 feet of copper housewire out to the field, see? my plan is to drive rebar into the wet ground and wrap the copper around the rebar see? i want to keep them pesky deer outta my weed garden...they are cutting into my profits see......
> 
> so is this the best route to go? i read a book once and learned sum basic electricity by reading a few catalogs, and plan to do this anyways tommorow. but i still want to hear your opinion eh, cuz i'm stuboorn and like to argue....



Take the caulks out of your Viking boots and you'll be fine.

:jawdrop:


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## Bermie (Jun 9, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> i will be useing a husky 51 with a 16 inch bar for the most part but will put the 20 incher on it for some of the limbs.ihave a few handsaws 100 ft climb line my saftey and of course spikes and my el cheapo saddle.i cant put pics on computer is to small.i will tell how it goes when i do it.i have read all advice given and with the advice of another pro who has done it for some time who is not an as member i have elected to do it my self.i also offered other alternatives for the tree trimming to weight it away from lines and fences and cabling but ray said he dont want the tree just take it down. i respect all advice given but i believe i will do fine.all the best and god bless. bill howe.p.s my personal saftey dont matter to me i aint suicidal or any thing i just dont care or worry for that matter.god protects me.:hmm3grin2orange:



Oh dear, oh dear...
If your personal safety doesn't matter to you, how do you treat those around you?
How do you think many of those here have managed to attain years in excess of 19 or 20 or 40 or 50???? Personal safety is NUMBER ONE!!!

I have done several jobs where I took great care of my personal safety, inspected the tree and the surroundings, got up in the tree and guess what...?
That still quiet voice within said 'not today' and down I have come. A belief in God will serve you very well, just be sure to LISTEN, and sometimes He is speaking to you through others. Even those who think you can do this if you take your time have CAUTION and SAFETY at the top of their list. And one has told you point blank you will break the law if you work in proximity to power lines...buddy....LISTEN.

A couple of other things jumped out at me here too...'el cheapo saddle' '16" bar ...20" for some of the limbs' 
I am concerned for your handling skills of a big bar in a big tree with big limbs and you are a newbie in a cheapie saddle...

Discretion is the better part of valour, get help...live and learn


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## Wismer (Jun 9, 2007)

oh really new guy? a husky?

I thought you'd be using a stihl for this job, especialy considering the praise you gave them on your other thread.


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## gmcman (Jun 10, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> i know many of you think i should call a pro to do it but that is not an option



How is it not an option....embarassed or can't swallow some humble pride.... 



newguy18 said:


> on the other hand i could ask a pro to watch me and help if it goes south, which it wont



_which it wont??_ That right there sums up your immaturity. You could spend days searching this site and read about accidents that shouldn't have happened but their called accidents for a reason. You started this thread stating you have not done anything this big before and are searching for advice but when you are given stern advice on getting a pro which you also stated you are not...you become this immortal "lumberjack" that doesn't need any help   I can drop a tree and I have a 14" poplar near my house and I'm not going to mess with it....I like my house...i'm calling a PRO....see not that hard. 
Get some training....hang out with the seasoned veterans...learn a ton.

Make sure you have enough in your portfolio to cover the fines.


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## polly (Jun 10, 2007)

*newbie to tree climbing*

Hi Bill,
I know you want to do this job, but what the other guys say is right, it sounds really dangerous. At least find an experienced climber to stand on the ground and guide you through it. You really should'nt attempt this though, we all know horror stories. Only you know where the tree is situated, and I know you think you know how it will pan out,....but there are so many unknown factors which can really turn things on their heads in a matter of seconds. Do'nt let pigheadedness stand in the way of common sense. These guys are right!

Polly


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## beowulf343 (Jun 10, 2007)

Holy smokes-two women just _agreed_ with us guys!! Will wonders never cease? 

Welcome to the site polly.


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## newguy18 (Jun 10, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Holy smokes-two women just _agreed_ with us guys!! Will wonders never cease?
> 
> Welcome to the site polly.


 the only thing that is gonna keep me outta that tree is if it falls on its own period.i dont have a bad feeling about it. i have climbed and worked in it and have consulted with pros about it.you can say what you would like but if it is stay on the ground kid i am not listening.good day bill


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## rahtreelimbs (Jun 10, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> the only thing that is gonna keep me outta that tree is if it falls on its own period.i dont have a bad feeling about it. i have climbed and worked in it and have consulted with pros about it.you can say what you would like but if it is stay on the ground kid i am not listening.good day bill




Hey Newguy-IQ-18,

Listen to your elders!!!


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## cntrybo2 (Jun 10, 2007)

i tell you what man, i am not that much older than you are and have been at this for a while. i will be the first to admit the first couple, i thought i was doing it all right, looking back i was doing alot wrong (climbing trees with a deerstand for take downs!). Listen to these guys to an extent. If this tree means that much to you do it, but do it slowly. You are young, face it, you dont know as much as older guys, its not a jab at you, they have just seen the sun rise and set more times. bear in mind though, if this tree doesnt get you, the next one or the one after that will. know your limits, i for one had a hard time learning mine, but when i did, the job became alot more fun, i made ALOT more money and now that i am married, i know i will be able to see the sun rise with my wife alot more days. learn to value life man, dont fear the unknown, but lean what you dont know and learn the unknown from the knowing. become greatful for what you have. With that i dont give a [email protected] about life attitude, you will never make a good anything in this field, calm down a bit. Lastly, good luck, take your time, and make sure someone with at least a little commonsense is helping/ watching you (with a cell phone near by)


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## polly (Jun 11, 2007)

thanks for the welcome,

Bill I wonder why you ask for advice when your clearly hell bent on doing something stupid anyway.Please write interesting things for this forum , because what you are going on about becoming sooooo boring! just go and cut the damn tree down.
*next topic please*


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## pbtree (Jun 11, 2007)

Polly, I don't know you but I like your style!  Welcome aboard....


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## Bermie (Jun 11, 2007)

Next topic - Hi Polly, we're going to start a minority support group here, we, the minority will support the majority when they are RIGHT!

Funny, my last customer's name was Howe, big poinciana with internal rot...


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## joesawer (Jun 11, 2007)

Next topic - Hi Polly, we're going to start a minority support group here, we, the minority will support the majority when they are RIGHT!
Hey Bermie that is funny.


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## geofore (Jun 12, 2007)

*things I don't hear/youth*



newguy18 said:


> hi my names bill howe and i do not do trees professionally yet and a friend of mine had me trimming a tree for him on monday.i do know a lot about trees and proper pruning and trimming practices but as i was doing it i found it has a cavity on one side oak wilt and it has heart rot. i told him that it was unsafe for his fence and power lines but it is not near his house.it is a good sized tree for this area eight ft diameter 110 ft canopy spread and seventy five foot tall.i already took the limbs out of the power but he wants it pieced out for fire wood and i have never done somting this big before. any advice would be greatly appreciated.my plan is to tie in with my climb line saftey and spurs. and because it is rotton but alive i will be taking pieces about fire wood length so i dont split it out and cause an accident. :chainsawguy: :newbie: :bang:



Did you take up a small hammer with you to sound the limbs you are cutting and the trunk you are climbing? Tap the tree and listen to it. Does it say I'm hollow or I'm safe to climb? A big old tree may bring bragging rights but it is a tree that can teach you a lot more but only if you take the time to listen to what it has to say. Big old trees took a long time to get that big, take the time to listen to what it has to tell you. @55, I'm to old to be so Gung Ho on a quest for bragging rights (big tree maddness) I ignore the need to live another day. Been there done that, take your time and learn from the tree and the others here.


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## Sand Dollar (Jun 12, 2007)

*Newguy18*

Mitchell made a great point by saying use a professional for training purposes. Get a professional who will allow you to do some or all of the work under his/her guidance. Its not about doing it- Its about doing it right!

Good luck


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## rb_in_va (Jun 12, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> no i am not married or dating for that matter.



No way!


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## Bermie (Jun 12, 2007)

joesawer said:


> Next topic - Hi Polly, we're going to start a minority support group here, we, the minority will support the majority when they are RIGHT!
> Hey Bermie that is funny.




Ta! He's not though! Hey bye, you cut that tree yet????opcorn:


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## Tatanka (Jun 12, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> hi my names bill howe and i do not do trees professionally yet and a friend of mine had me trimming a tree for him on monday.i do know a lot about trees and proper pruning and trimming practices but as i was doing it i found it has a cavity on one side oak wilt and it has heart rot. i told him that it was unsafe for his fence and power lines but it is not near his house.it is a good sized tree for this area eight ft diameter 110 ft canopy spread and seventy five foot tall.i already took the limbs out of the power but he wants it pieced out for fire wood and i have never done somting this big before. any advice would be greatly appreciated.my plan is to tie in with my climb line saftey and spurs. and because it is rotton but alive i will be taking pieces about fire wood length so i dont split it out and cause an accident. :chainsawguy: :newbie: :bang:



I say go ahead with the job.But video tape it from start to finish and either post it,or be sure to have someone post it for you.


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## Ed Roland (Jun 12, 2007)

Tatanka said:


> I say go ahead with the job.But video tape it from start to finish and either post it,or be sure to have someone post it for you.



Welcome 2 the site. Tatanka and Nieechepeepee is some of that fancy indian speak Kevin Costner made famous.


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## nytreeman (Jun 13, 2007)

polly said:


> thanks for the welcome,
> 
> Bill I wonder why you ask for advice when your clearly hell bent on doing something stupid anyway.Please write interesting things for this forum , because what you are going on about becoming sooooo boring! just go and cut the damn tree down.
> *next topic please*



give em hell polly!lol


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## gremlin (Jun 14, 2007)

*wow*

I have just read this thread front to back and im amazed. Im new to the business myself. Not new to climbing or to logging but new to the arborist side. This newguy has me scared for him. I plan on dropping a tree myself this weekend that is if i feel comfortable with it. I have surveyed the tree several times and believe it will go sith ease. Mostly because it is a SMALL tree and has no power lines or houses near. It still has me thinking. There is no way i would even think of attemting a tree like he is talking about. I love life too much. Its not a risk worth taking not in my book.


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## nytreeman (Jun 15, 2007)

Ever get that tree down newbie?or you still busy pissing off the stihl guys? :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy: :chainsawguy:


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## computeruser (Jun 18, 2007)

Just found this thread. Wow, amazing. Wonder if chucklehead has taken this tree down yet. I'd love to see the pics of the removal. Bet NewGuy will give James a run for his money...


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## cntrybo2 (Jun 18, 2007)

i wonder if us not hearing anything from the boy is a sign of how the job went. I know we told him but i hope we weren't right!!


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## kennertree (Jun 18, 2007)

Come on newguy, fess up, everyone wants to know how it went.


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## newguy18 (Jun 18, 2007)

kennertree said:


> Come on newguy, fess up, everyone wants to know how it went.



still waiting on ray to tell me to come cut it down.


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## cntrybo2 (Jun 18, 2007)

sounds like another sign from the heavens to me!!! Do you think this guy doubts your abilities?


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## gremlin (Jun 18, 2007)

*too funny*

sorry guys maybe im out of line to post this but i have been reading this thread and others. i came accross this post in another thread and had to repost it here.This is quoted from newguy18

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyplay 
Yes, I agree, as you might have read, the 455 is a "borrowed saw" that my friend has and that I am using temporarily...I am shopping for a one myself!

Thanks for the insight 

have you tried baileys yet?
__________________
i canclimb any tree,and bring it down for god made me great at the things i do.


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## Bakuma (Jul 26, 2007)

Flood waters coming, told to evacuate, man says, "Don't worry, God will take care of us". Water gets higher, boat comes by, "No", says man, "God will take care of us". Water gets higher, family on the roof, helicopter comes by, "No, God will take care of us". Water over roof, all drowned, gets to the pearly gates, man says "God, why didn't you take care of us like I believed you would?" Answer: "What do you mean? I tried three times, but you wouldn't listen!"

:deadhorse:


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## Canyonbc (Jul 28, 2007)

Um..yep definetly gonna put a big second on that one..

i like the story...

i dont think it should just be pointed towards new guy...all of us, just a reminder for when get cocky and out of are own abilites....


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## Steviec (Jul 28, 2007)

A very interesting case study for us psychology types is Newguy. Putting on my psycholgists hat I'd say he's a person who is desperate for attention, one who has had little discipline in his younger life and who feels the desperate need to prove himself. Mostly he sounds like a person who doesn't grasp the principal that all actions have consequences, indeed he may have been over protected from lifes consequences thus far. 

In this case the consequences are dire no matter what happens. If he succeeds in doing this job then he'll beleive that he really does know it all . If he fails then he'll be eating through a straw for the rest of life.

Putting on my very non-PC ex British Royal Marines hat perhaps he should get on up there and then he'll quite likely no longer be contributing to his nations gene pool, surely no bad thing?

Putting on my Woodsmans hat I'd say "phone the asylum and tell them to bring a big net"!


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## Anthony909 (Jul 31, 2007)

Not sure if someone already said this. Probably did, but have an arborist watch you do it to make sure your doin it right and most importantly SAFELY! Anywho, best of luck to ya and post some pics, if even off a friends comp.


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