# Pretty Sad



## luvatenor (Jan 6, 2013)

I googled JM Browning to see what they have been after all they are one of the most professional logging outfits in existence. What I saw was a latter that Jay had sent to political officials in an attempt to get them to open their eyes to what lies ahead. I have attached the first paragraph of an eye opening reality-Please read the rest: (http://www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com/news/obama-letter.htm)This is very sad:




Please Help Me Save the Logging Industry:
Read my letter to the President. If you are feeling the same as me, contact me at [email protected]
To be apart of the fight, please compose a letter to the President with your own story. I will be submitting my letter and yours to Governors, Senators and the President. I need everyone's help to be heard!
Respectfully,
Jay Browning


Dear Mr. President,

I am involved in an industry that I feel has been much overlooked. This industry is very important for a stable economy, more so then people realize – the timber industry.

Like countless industries today, my industry is seeing the worst of times. I have been an owner of a logging company for 31 years. We have no union; however, I still have offered health benefits for 29 years and 401K retirement for 12 years. I have been able to provide steady jobs and nice benefits for my employees. In the past, we have had 130 employees working, but now we are struggling to keep 80 employees. What I find interesting is your administration is focusing on providing health insurance for Americans; however, this happens to be what I will be cutting from my business budget if my business is to possibly survive. I am staring at the cold, harsh reality of going out of business in the near future. 80% of my work is gone. We are dealing with mill shut downs and mills being closed for good. As a result, this is destroying many communities who are dealing with now non-existent timber revenue short falls that have kept their schools and municipalities functioning in the past. Unemployment is growing at a record breaking rate in my industry, and it’s absolutely devastating.


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## closetoreality (Jan 6, 2013)

it is sad, that more hard working middle class americans are getting fisted. reality sucks.


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 6, 2013)

It is sad.

There is always going to be a logging industry in this country. Jobs have been shed in recent decades not only due to reduced volume cut on Federal land but the rise of export markets for raw logs and cants, as well as increased mechanization at all stages, from felling to milling.

So, how to increase employment in this area? A mix of incentives for non-industrial forest land owners top manage their woodland and increasing federal harvest volume. Perhaps incentives via the tax code to mill more logs here from industrial private land (already a ban on most whole log exports from State and Federal lands).

Problem: the public has a say in Federal land timber management.
Solution: same.

Get the word out that small trees and slash can be made into liquid fuels for vehicles, or made into electricity and heat in co-generation plants, and a lot of people who "don't like logging" may be counted on for support. A cold home and no gas for the car -- that just might do it! Throw in a reduction in wildfire danger near cabins and towns too.

This can be done without pushing into contentious acreage (old-growth and roadless areas); there are MILLIONS of acres of Federal land already under management that are in dire need of thinning and TSI (Timber Stand Improvement). 

There must still be some of the old mindset on both sides preventing action. We are going to have to work around those people, change their minds, or step forward ourselves and lead, or we will continue to see more wildfire, lost jobs, and imported oil.


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## Hardwoods Inc. (Jan 6, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> It is sad.
> 
> There is always going to be a logging industry in this country. Jobs have been shed in recent decades not only due to reduced volume cut on Federal land but the rise of export markets for raw logs and cants, as well as increased mechanization at all stages, from felling to milling.
> 
> ...



Well,at least in my area (the south east) it's not he lack of timber to cut it's the lack of people needing it.The housing market crash is the biggest problem.Also,I wouldn't say there's "always' going to be a logging industry.At least maybe not anything like in recent past.If the economy completely collapses who's gonna need timber or who will buy it and who can afford to log it?The fact is Obama doesn't care and those that think he does are dillusional.


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## luvatenor (Jan 6, 2013)

Hardwoods Inc. said:


> Well,at least in my area (the south east) it's not he lack of timber to cut it's the lack of people needing it.The housing market crash is the biggest problem.Also,I wouldn't say there's "always' going to be a logging industry.At least maybe not anything like in recent past.If the economy completely collapses who's gonna need timber or who will buy it and who can afford to log it?The fact is Obama doesn't care and those that think he does are dillusional.



Relative to that is a very poignant letter that Jay Browning wrote with regards to the state of small businesses,the attitude of our current government and logging in this country. He makes some very salient points and politics aside, he makes a very strong case. *Do yourselves a favor and read it*-here is the link: J.M. Browning Logging and Trucking - News


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## saxono3 (Jan 6, 2013)

luvatenor said:


> . *Do yourselves a favor and read it*-here is the link: J.M. Browning Logging and Trucking - News



I read it. I think he's right. It ought to be sent to and read by every governor, congressmen and senator. As for obama, well,,,,,, most likely be a waste of a stamp.


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## luvatenor (Jan 6, 2013)

saxono3 said:


> I read it. I think he's right. It ought to be sent to and read by every governor, congressmen and senator. As for obama, well,,,,,, most likely be a waste of a stamp.



The obvious path would be for all logging companies(as a start) to write similar letters-but you may be right-politicians act on those issues that benefit themselves not their constituency(as Chris Cristy so nobly stated).


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## DarthTater (Jan 6, 2013)

saxono3 said:


> I read it. I think he's right. It ought to be sent to and read by every governor, congressmen and senator. As for obama, well,,,,,, most likely be a waste of a stamp.



Considering that most Politicians have openly admitted they never read anything, I think it would be a waste of a stamp to mail anything to any of them, they obviously only give a rip about who will "donate" the most to their "Campaign Fund".

Time to fire em all and start over if you ask me.


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## dooby (Jan 6, 2013)

AS AN INDUSTRY WE HAVE TO "FRY A BIGGER FISH". It is a proven fact that less than 10% of letters sent to these F---S read what we write them . I have never gotten a reply from any that i've wrote. I have been working on a diagram for a documentary on the timber industry for over 2yrs. now. There is a volunteer{limited}lawyer, some friends who currently film hunting shows{whom most of all logged together}and me and my dream of re-educating the world about the timber industry. It is all wrapped up in 4 notebooks and my computer.This documentary will offend Loggers,commoners, and greenie extremists alike. Every one has to change there practices on both sides of the fence. Aren't we supposed to be the militia that defends Our Constitution from all things both foreign and domestic. Let the revolution begin here on this forum- violence is not the answer. the pen isn't the mightiest anymore-its the media. Weyerhaeuser bought off congress to get the railways open to the west coast and their main objective was to rid America of hemp which they used marijuana to do through media. "REEFER MADNESS" OMG-. this doc. is going to show managed, unmanaged ,and burnt forests,loggers,truck drivers, people who have been retrained through the displaced timber workers fund,greenie extremists,mill workers and the owners,to the uneducated homeowner that doesn't know what it took to get the board on the shelf at slum-depot. I am very compassionate about all of this and hope to have help with this along the way. My son and i were making a snowman to blow up{tannerite]and it was easy to push the ball by ones self in the beginning but then as he needed help so will I {the right help}. then at that point it will be-come TEAM>no I in team.were would i start a thread on this forum for this without putting it on the political site? i only belong to 2 other forums and dont know much about them.Any positive and or constructive criticism will be appreciated. thanks


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## dooby (Jan 6, 2013)

*Only its not funny---*

The most popular book on this planet says we will work all day for a loaf of bread before its all over.


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## dooby (Jan 6, 2013)

*wha?*



dooby said:


> The most popular book on this planet says we will work all day for a loaf of bread before its all over.



were did the cartoon go---? thats what this referred to. that was sum funny s66t.


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## Gologit (Jan 6, 2013)

dooby said:


> were did the cartoon go---? thats what this referred to. that was sum funny s66t.



Yup, it was funny. It was also very political so it had to be deleted. We try to keep politics out of the main forums as much as possible. The Political forum has a section for political pictures.

Did you and your kid really blow up a snow man with tannerite? I gotta try that.


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## dooby (Jan 6, 2013)

*Boom*



Gologit said:


> Yup, it was funny. It was also very political so it had to be deleted. We try to keep politics out of the main forums as much as possible. The Political forum has a section for political pictures.
> 
> Did you and your kid really blow up a snow man with tannerite? I gotta try that.



yep- we are gonna video the next one. Need more tannerite. do i need to send you some snow or a pre built snowman. The little ones are $50.00 and the big ones are $100.00. But i am out of ziplocks ! lol


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## D&B Mack (Jan 7, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> It is sad.
> 
> There is always going to be a logging industry in this country.



The same was said about the steel industry. And even though there still is one, we don't want the timber industry to see that same fate.


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## luvatenor (Jan 7, 2013)

D&B Mack said:


> The same was said about the steel industry. And even though there still is one, we don't want the timber industry to see that same fate.



We now import steel from China-imagine importing logs from other countries-This is becoming insane!


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## bert0168 (Jan 7, 2013)

luvatenor said:


> We now import steel from China-*imagine importing logs from other countries*-This is becoming insane!



Already happening.

I heard that alot of veneer quality lumber only makes it as far as international waters where it's turned into plywood products on foreign ships and sent right back to our markets at a lower cost.

AFAIK


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## slowp (Jan 7, 2013)

dooby said:


> AS AN INDUSTRY WE HAVE TO "FRY A BIGGER FISH". It is a proven fact that less than 10% of letters sent to these F---S read what we write them . I have never gotten a reply from any that i've wrote. I have been working on a diagram for a documentary on the timber industry for over 2yrs. now. There is a volunteer{limited}lawyer, some friends who currently film hunting shows{whom most of all logged together}and me and my dream of re-educating the world about the timber industry. It is all wrapped up in 4 notebooks and my computer.This documentary will offend Loggers,commoners, and greenie extremists alike. Every one has to change there practices on both sides of the fence. Aren't we supposed to be the militia that defends Our Constitution from all things both foreign and domestic. Let the revolution begin here on this forum- violence is not the answer. the pen isn't the mightiest anymore-its the media. Weyerhaeuser bought off congress to get the railways open to the west coast and their main objective was to rid America of hemp which they used marijuana to do through media. "REEFER MADNESS" OMG-. this doc. is going to show managed, unmanaged ,and burnt forests,loggers,truck drivers, people who have been retrained through the displaced timber workers fund,greenie extremists,mill workers and the owners,to the uneducated homeowner that doesn't know what it took to get the board on the shelf at slum-depot. I am very compassionate about all of this and hope to have help with this along the way. My son and i were making a snowman to blow up{tannerite]and it was easy to push the ball by ones self in the beginning but then as he needed help so will I {the right help}. then at that point it will be-come TEAM>no I in team.were would i start a thread on this forum for this without putting it on the political site? i only belong to 2 other forums and dont know much about them.Any positive and or constructive criticism will be appreciated. thanks



I hope this isn't taken as a political comment. 

If you mention militia, and constitution, UN involvement, and ANY conspiracy theory, you shut down the minds of most folks and your film loses credibility with most of the public. 

I'd keep all mention of the above out of it, if you want it to be seen by any mainstream folks. 

As far as biomass? We don't need more power here in the PNW. Any biomass plant would have to be subsidized because we already are paying for wind power, that we didn't need and is unreliable. Our area grows timber, but it also has lots of water going through dams for hydropower. 

The market is coming back. The few timber sales here are selling with more than one bidder. 

We've kept quiet far too long, and the enviros are entrenched, big time. It is a bit late. You can try to use education, but the people you need to convince won't show up. They already know it all. We do not have the highly educated pool of people to turn to for help. They do. I hate to say it, but anymore, if you don't have that college or graduate diploma in your hand, you are not taken seriously. 

How many of you can go back to school? The enviro side sends folks back to get environmental science or forestry graduate degrees. They have no practical experience, but they have that piece of paper. That's what counts. 

I'm rather pessimistic about govt. lands ever putting out much in the way of timber sales. It costs too much what with all the appeals and lawsuits, and it costs too much to provide all the required protections that are now required. 

Jack Ward Thomas, who was Chief of the Forest Service, but had to resign as it was too much stress, has stated that the Northwest Forest Plan is undoable as far as the providing timber part. Most of you east of the Cascades are not affected by this plan, but it is the crux of the problem here--along with road decommissioning. 

Remember, each area is different. While you may be able to convince folks to reduce fuel loading, we can't here, because we seldom have large forest fires. Our local forests should be available for timber management simply because we grow a high quality product quickly. But we can't do or say that.


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## slowp (Jan 7, 2013)

Logs that come off of our federal lands are required by law to have a minimum of processing before being shipped overseas. They have to at least be milled into cants. There are exceptions--Alaska Yellow Cedar, and I think--Port Orford cedar logs may be exported. Neither of those is very common. I also think logs from Alaskan National Forests may be exported. That may have changed. 

The China log market helped keep loggers going here after the domestic market crashed. While mill people were getting laid off, loggers were able to keep working on private lands. 

At the same time, pulp prices were higher than sawlog prices (domestically) so nice saw logs were going to the chipping facilities. 

It can get pretty complicated. The market is currently rebounding because housing starts are up. Plus, disasters often help the lumber market and Hurricane Sandy may be a help. Or the planets are aligned in a favorable way...:msp_biggrin:


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## dooby (Jan 7, 2013)

slowp-Thanks for the education. It was not taken as political . One of the side rods for this forum sent me a pm and told me how to get on the political page. I am far to compassionate about all this and need to stay away from politics for now, that is why it has taken 2yrs. to get this far. The whole reason behind using the media is to inform the voting public. As far as the Cascades vs. Rockies aren't we all in the Columbia drainage together . As far as the power issues goes I believe that 100% of our forests should be utilized. Water-water everywhere and not a drop to drink. Changing over to better ways always takes a sacrifice of first admitting our forefathers directions have been some of why we are in the jar we are in. But then again this is on thread about a scripted logger, whom on the side is the real deal. Look into who really owns our national parks, maybe we can print more trees-but will have to done on virtual paper> :angrysoapbox:


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## dooby (Jan 8, 2013)

Right now Plumb Creek {prune river}is purchasing Canadian logs in the raw here in the Rockies while local resources rot and local skills sit by and suffer or leave to work some oil patch or move to another state to log. My family and I are era on that fore front right now, were i live. Who is subsidizing who ? I for one am choosing to re-locate, to stay in this industry. :biggrinbounce2:


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