# Close to buying a LumberMate LM29



## dlabrie (Jul 16, 2014)

Hi all,

I have been following this site for a few years now and have learned quite a bit. I plan to retire soon and I've been looking for a "hobby / retirement- job". I have 12 acres here in central NH with quite a bit of mature pine and mixed hardwoods. I have a tractor, chain saw, and other tools to harvest the wood. First off, I plan to build a shed for the mill, then use lumber for projects around the homestead as well as sell some on Craig’s list. When I get confident, I might custom cut wood as well. 

I have looked at all of the major brands and keep coming back to LumberMate LM29. I am looking at getting the 14hp (429cc) Kohler OHV recoil start gas engine and rail one extension. I would not be trailering it.

I have a couple of questions:

Do you think the Dura-Guide Ceramic Blade Guide Retrofit Kit is worth the $299 price tag?

Is auto lube necessary?

Does anyone know the oil drain plug size on this engine?

I would love to hear any pros, cons and opinions you may have on this mill.

Thanks,

David


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## hamish (Jul 16, 2014)

dlabrie said:


> I have looked at all of the major brands and keep coming back to LumberMate LM29. I am looking at getting the 14hp (429cc) Kohler OHV recoil start gas engine and rail one extension. I would not be trailering it.
> I have a couple of questions:
> Do you think the Dura-Guide Ceramic Blade Guide Retrofit Kit is worth the $299 price tag?
> Is auto lube necessary?
> ...



David

I have had the previous version the ML26 for over 3 years now.
No sense wasting the money on the ceramic blade guides or the auto lube.
In 3 years time I have no complaints about the mill. By the end of this summer I will have milled 100K BF, on the little mill that could.

Jeremy


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## Sawyer Rob (Jul 16, 2014)

dlabrie said:


> I am looking at getting the 14hp (429cc) Kohler OHV recoil start gas engine and rail one extension.
> David



The small Lumbermates I've demoed at shows, turned out nice lumber and worked very well...

BUT, i'd MUCH rather have the 16 hp Vanguard over the Kohler, even if I had to pay more to get the Vanguard! ESPECIALLY if that ohv Kohler is one of the Kohlers that are now made in china...

Vanguard motors are very good motors and quite fuel efficient...

SR


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## dlabrie (Jul 17, 2014)

SR,

The 16hp (479cc) B&S is $1100 more than the 14hp (429cc) Kohler. I agree it is probably the better engine, but for now, I really can’t afford that much more. Also, I don’t know if this makes sense, but I figure I can run the Kohler until it dies and for $1100 replace it with a B&S.

Jeremy,

Thanks for the info on your LM26. What engine do you run on it?

David


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## hamish (Jul 17, 2014)

dlabrie said:


> SR,
> 
> The 16hp (479cc) B&S is $1100 more than the 14hp (429cc) Kohler. I agree it is probably the better engine, but for now, I really can’t afford that much more. Also, I don’t know if this makes sense, but I figure I can run the Kohler until it dies and for $1100 replace it with a B&S.
> 
> ...


 
13HP Honda.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jul 17, 2014)

hamish said:


> 13HP Honda.


Agreed, that would be my second choice...

SR


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## pete_86 (Jul 23, 2014)

After looking at their site, I want one even more! How do they compare to other brands? I like the 5k price and would probably go with the Honda engine and save the extra money to spend on the accessories like the log positioning rollers and etc. The bigger model at 2k is bit more, but if I recall that comes with ceramic holders and a larger elec start brigs.

I'd still go with the smaller 29 when I buy. For me price of unit is good but the accessories and the trailer package gets expensive. The trailer package is 3k to have the winch and rails and than the trailer. Why so much for a trailer? Anyone use these another way such as offloading it with a tilt deck equipment trailer and using a winch to winch back on? I really like their trailer idea but I'm not sure if I'd trailer it much so the hassle of using a tilt deck wouldn't be too bad. Plus for 3k if I didn't have a tilt deck could put it towards a nice trailer. 

Has anyone built their own trailer package?


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## Dave Boyt (Jul 23, 2014)

I run an HD36, but have done demos on the LM29, and was impressed by how smooth it was. Norwood has also brought back the LM26, which is also a good machine. If you will mostly be working logs 20" diameter and under, the smaller engine should be all right. I like the ceramic guides, because they are smooth and easy to adjust. They take up less room than the roller guides, and I can take them off to mill a slightly wider board (very carefully). The top two "options" are a mill shed and a log deck. Start out stationary and think about being portable after you've kicked out some sawdust. Besides the price, I was attracted to the Norwood because it has a good solid feel to it, and it came as a kit so shipping was cheaper, and I didn't pay someone at the factory to build it for me. Very pleased with the machine and the service!


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## dlabrie (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks, Dave.
Your comments are what I needed to hear. I think the Norwood owners are the best advertisement for the company. I have e-mailed Tom at Norwood about buying a mill, but he is on vacation until the 28th. I'll see what he has to say and hopefully by mid August, I will be making sawdust


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## hamish (Jul 23, 2014)

dlabrie said:


> Thanks, Dave.
> Your comments are what I needed to hear. I think the Norwood owners are the best advertisement for the company. I have e-mailed Tom at Norwood about buying a mill, but he is on vacation until the 28th. I'll see what he has to say and hopefully by mid August, I will be making sawdust



The Kohler CH395 (14hp) is a good motor, however it hasn't been out long enough (only about 4 years) to get some real feedback on them. I have a CH270 (7hp) on my wood splitter and another on a pump. Both start on to two pulls year round, but I haven't been able to accumulate a lot of hours on them to be able to determine longevity.

Being made in China has nothing to do with quality, you can get a Briggs and a Honda also made in China. The parent company and there quality expectations/requirements are what dictate the final product, regretfully the consumers want for cheap product has led to many companies/importers to have cheap garbage made to satisfy them.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jul 23, 2014)

Which Briggs & Honda models are made in china??

I see china made Honda "clones", but I haven't seen a REAL Honda made in china... I haven't seen a Briggs Vanguard made in china either...

I've seen the clones have carb problems, and also inferior metal in them too... I'd just rather get something of a "known" quality...

SR


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## rwthom279 (Jul 24, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Which Briggs & Honda models are made in china??
> 
> I haven't seen a Briggs Vanguard made in china either...
> 
> ...



SR,

All of the new/newer, smaller "one lung" Briggs I have seen are Chinese Honda Clones. Briggs had the placement of the controls, the fuel tank and plastics molded so they look mimic the look of the older model 5hp with the Pulsa-Jet cabs. From a distance of 10ft, they could easily be mistaken for the older good quality ones. Remove the front cover and air filter and it becomes apparent... Its a shame really

I haven't put my hands on a recent Vangaurd to know if they are the V-Twin C-Honda. One can only hope that they haven't made the switch... darn good engines IMO

Even the Hondas are susceptible to the issues related to ethanol in the fuel. Due to the construction of the carb and the inability to clean all the teeny tiny fuel passages, once it's down, chances are, it'll have to be replaced. If a person has access to an ultrasonic cleaner, many times these carbs can be saved.

I have a couple C-Hondas as well, but like Hamish, I haven't put enough hours on any of them to give any kind of legitimate feedback. They start easy and are VERY fuel efficient. All I know is, it takes several oil changes to get all the crap out of the crankcase when you first take 'em outta the box.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jul 24, 2014)

I haven't looked at any Briggs singles in a long time, not sure what Briggs has done with them... The Vanguard side shafts I've looked at, look the same as my old 23hp that I KNOW wasn't made in china.

My brother has several H clones, they sure aren't a Honda... Like for instance, the carb flanges break easily... I haven't seen a REAL Honda of any size made in china yet...

I've read numerous times of the china Kohlers starting hard, not running right or not making good power right out of the box, i'll pass on Kohlers these days...

SR


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## hamish (Jul 24, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I haven't looked at any Briggs singles in a long time, not sure what Briggs has done with them... The Vanguard side shafts I've looked at, look the same as my old 23hp that I KNOW wasn't made in china.
> 
> My brother has several H clones, they sure aren't a Honda... Like for instance, the carb flanges break easily... I haven't seen a REAL Honda of any size made in china yet...
> 
> ...



REAL Honda of any size, how about the larger size, aka car. The Honda Fit is made in China. GX Series motors are produced in China. Jailing-Honda-Motors (China) and Thai Honda MFG (Thailand) are the primary makers for the GX series motors.

Right from Briggs and Stratton

quote "
*Are Briggs & Stratton engines manufactured in the United States?*
Nearly 90% of our engines are manufactured in the U.S.A. from U.S. and global parts. Supporting the power within each of us is our brand promise. It's why over 3,000 people build over 9 million engines in our U.S. factories each year from U.S. and global parts. And it's the reason why consumers look for the Briggs & Stratton brand when they shop for power equipment.
The consumer engines manufactured outside the United States are:

700 Series™ DOV®
550, 750, 800, 900, 1150, 2100 Series™ Utility
800, 900, 1150, 2100 Snow Series™
Commercial grade engines manufactured outside of the United States include:

Vanguard™ V-Twin Horizontal and Vertical Shaft
Vanguard™ 3 Cylinder
Vanguard™ Single Cylinder Horizontal Shaft (except Model 19)
All Vanguard™ engines are engineered in the USA."

And no the Vanguards are made in Japan anymore, I replaced 23hp Vanguard less than a month ago, guess where it was made?


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## hamish (Jul 24, 2014)

And no we aren't talking about "clones".

Off shore B+S engines have much higher quality than the garbage made in the past 20 yrs in the US by B+S.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jul 24, 2014)

I was at an ag EXPO today and I looked at several small motors.

The guy there that I talked to, said the small Briggs were assembled here, from parts made in china and other places. The ones he had there did look like many of the china motors I've looked at, although they didn't say china any place on them.

The Vanguards I looked at, didn't look china made at all, but they may have been older models?? The certificate or origin on the last vanguard I bought stated, block from Taiwan, rest Japan. Last Honda 13 I bought was made in Thailand...

One of the best small motors I've bought lately, is a gas powered, fuel injected V twin, made by Kubota. VERY nice motor!

SR


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## Blackbeered (Nov 1, 2014)

Well, dlabrie, what have you decided to do?

I'm at the stage where you were in July. The posts here are convincing me that the LM29 would be a good choice if I wanted to step up from the lowest entry point sawmill I've found and like [the Woodland Mills].

I really have no use for the saw after a few thousand bf and I thought I might not have too much trouble selling it then [and for that purpose I thought of going with the elec start 16HP and trailer options] for 70 cents on the dollar. [I can't find any used sawmills under $10K.]

I was wondering if the sentiment still is "forego the ceramics, auto water lube"; I shied away from the toe boards since I'm thinking "it's only for the first cut anyway" and "I already own bottle jacks". Whatta think?

Thanks.


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## dlabrie (Nov 1, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> Well, dlabrie, what have you decided to do?
> 
> I'm at the stage where you were in July. The posts here are convincing me that the LM29 would be a good choice if I wanted to step up from the lowest entry point sawmill I've found and like [the Woodland Mills].
> 
> ...


 I bought the LM29 in August. I went with the 13hp Honda, standard roller guides, and manual lube. So far, all I have been cutting is Eastern White Pine and it has performed flawlessly. The only issue I have is keeping everything level and straight as I don't have it on a very solid surface yet. I use an old scissor jack to raise the end of a tapered log and when I finish my mill shed, I will continue to use it. I bought a cheap hour meter and I probably have 30 hours on it so far. The lube only needs to drip very slowly so you really don't need to turn it on and off while you are cutting. 

The pictures below show my 22X24' millshed, all cut on the mill. Most everything you see are from 12',2x8s(true) and the posts are 10', 4X6(true). The 1" boards are for the decking.


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## SDB777 (Nov 1, 2014)

Timber framing any of it with mortise-n-tenons?

Because this would be an awesome building to do that! Keep the photo's coming!



Scott (beans-n-cornbread) B


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## dlabrie (Nov 2, 2014)

SDB777 said:


> Timber framing any of it with mortise-n-tenons?
> 
> Because this would be an awesome building to do that! Keep the photo's coming!
> 
> ...



No, Just nails and timber-lok screws


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## Blackbeered (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks for sharing. Awesome. Hope you have plenty of help.

Did you consider the TK1220?

And you have no qualms using fresh-cut pine here? Guess you're aiming to have everything wrapped up by Thanksgiving? Where's the woodstove going?

[I have relatives in Barnstead NH area ... you anywhere close?]


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## dlabrie (Nov 2, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> Thanks for sharing. Awesome. Hope you have plenty of help.
> 
> Did you consider the TK1220?
> 
> ...



I looked at most all of the entry level mills and thought the Norward was the best bang for the buck.

I've built a number of out-buildings with green lumber and have had no problem. "...wrapped up by Thanksgiving" I'll be lucky to have the deck on by then; I am doing this with no help. The wind chill today is 24 degrees and it has been raining, now snowing, on the weekends. I still need to cut and build the trusses and unless we have an unusually warm and dry winter, I'm not going to get it done until next summer. At least, I'll be able to cut and skid my logs on the snow. 

I live in the Plymouth area of NH. It is north central in the White Mtns.


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## SDB777 (Nov 2, 2014)

Hard to build during snow squalls....reports I'm seeing are Pats are playing in blizzard-like conditions? Parents and family up there(yes, I grew up in Maine) are all sitting in front of wood-stoves, enjoying the day. Sometimes just enjoying the day is what it is all about....

A lot of the barns and such that were built down here, were built using 'green' timber. And they are still standing(at least the ones that are somewhat taken care of)! Besides, wasn't aware that White Pine had a huge cellular collapse problem. 


Are you going to build and assemble the trusses on the ground and then get a crane(rent) to move them into position?




Scott (just messed up the wifes' nap....chit! I'm in trouble) B


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## dlabrie (Nov 2, 2014)

SDB777 said:


> Hard to build during snow squalls....reports I'm seeing are Pats are playing in blizzard-like conditions? Parents and family up there(yes, I grew up in Maine) are all sitting in front of wood-stoves, enjoying the day. Sometimes just enjoying the day is what it is all about....
> 
> A lot of the barns and such that were built down here, were built using 'green' timber. And they are still standing(at least the ones that are somewhat taken care of)! Besides, wasn't aware that White Pine had a huge cellular collapse problem.
> 
> ...


My plan is to build the trusses on the deck, once it is completed, and get them up one way or another.


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## SDB777 (Nov 2, 2014)

I won't be back up that way until July(middle)....surely would help in the barn raising.



Scott (plenty of folks here for labor) B


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## pete_86 (Nov 6, 2014)

What's with the cellular collapse on pine? I'm trying to find on here who mentioned this? Is this aka, known as soft wood compressing too much?


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## Blackbeered (Nov 6, 2014)

SDB777 mentioned this when I asked dlabrie if he had any problems building with green wood.

I think the point he was trying to make was that white pine has some of the lowest shrinkage [owing to 'cell collapse', i.e. green wood has water stored a couple of ways]; when I looked it up, I found this to be true.

By the way, placed my order for a Norwood HD36 yesterday; just couldn't get comfortable with the TK1220/company.


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## pete_86 (Nov 6, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> SDB777 mentioned this when I asked dlabrie if he had any problems building with green wood.
> 
> I think the point he was trying to make was that white pine has some of the lowest shrinkage [owing to 'cell collapse', i.e. green wood has water stored a couple of ways]; when I looked it up, I found this to be true.
> 
> By the way, placed my order for a Norwood HD36 yesterday; just couldn't get comfortable with the TK1220/company.




Lucky dog you!  Now did you go with the HD36 so you could outrig it with full hydraulics someday? That'd be somethin to have.  you should post pics of the new mill once you get in put into use. Very cool, congrats


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## dlabrie (Nov 6, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> SDB777 mentioned this when I asked dlabrie if he had any problems building with green wood.
> 
> I think the point he was trying to make was that white pine has some of the lowest shrinkage [owing to 'cell collapse', i.e. green wood has water stored a couple of ways]; when I looked it up, I found this to be true.
> 
> By the way, placed my order for a Norwood HD36 yesterday; just couldn't get comfortable with the TK1220/company.



Congrats! Post plenty of picts!


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## Blackbeered (Nov 20, 2014)

At some point I might have time to figure out how to post pictures, but at this time I'm trying to figure out how, when, if I'll get this creature assembled.

Shipment was a few days late; delivery rescheduled twice [30 man-hrs wasted], but finally came at 6:30 pm and yours truly had to muscle 40 boxes weighing 1,900 pounds in the dark ... twice, on and off the trailer I used to move the goods 250 ft to my shop.

Had what I know to be two competent and enthusiastic pals [one's a private commercial pilot who's built his own plane and is now assembling a helicopter and the other a retired machinist with over 40 years of experience] to go along with my 40+ years of 'handyman' experience in commercial building trades.

Long story short ... after Day 1 helping me, they won't be coming back; like me, they're totally frustrated by the instruction's inaccuracies, incompleteness, ambiguities; unfortunately, I have no choice.

So, after the first 20 man-hrs and four calls to the company [50% helpful ... like "yeah, those instructions are wrong" and "yeah, that drawing's not right" and "no, you shouldn't have received two boxes of that ... you'll probably find out later you're missing a box of something"], it's possibly 10% complete ... putting the job at 200 man-hrs.

And for the stories out there that say guys, by themselves, have put this thing together in four days? Dream on. I've gotta question the source of those reviews.

At least the complimentary cap fits ... but for now I'll choose not to wear it in public.


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## pete_86 (Nov 20, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> At least the complimentary cap fits ... but for now I'll choose not to wear it in public.



 that made me chuckle, but I'm sorry to hear of your troubles.

Hopefully you get things figured out and joys of milling will make up for the tough assembly. This is the Norwood 36HD ? Just wanted to confirm this as I wouldn't expect this from what I've heard of Norwood.

Perhaps you could look on youtube.com and search for some user assembly videos or even search online or on here for a build blog that 
could help


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## Blackbeered (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes, it's an HD36 [with trailer pkg, 23HP upgrade, and log loading kit].

After yesterday [~ 28 man hrs], close to 30% there [at least by the page count of the 250+ page assembly manual.] That's the bed w tracks, dogs, axle, tires, jackstands; I think the light kit's first up today.

The first thing that strikes you, immediately after opening the "Open Me First" box, is the assembly manual. It then hits you like a bolt of lightning why it's not available on-line and why they won't send you one before buying.

Aside from the magnitude of the "degree of breakdown" [haven't actually added up the parts' list, which is spread over 12? pages, but there's got to be over 3,000 pieces], here are the obvious:

[1] they need technical writers badly ... it's obvious no one at Norwood has actually watched someone, who didn't engineer the thing, assemble the HD36 from the manual they provide;

[2] they need a better paint shop; I thought the materials were powder-coated, but not from what I'm seeing ... hope they'll give we a volume discount on a case of "Norwood Orange" spray paint;

[3] the CS people are "pleasant".


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## dlabrie (Nov 21, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> Yes, it's an HD36 [with trailer pkg, 23HP upgrade, and log loading kit].
> 
> After yesterday [~ 28 man hrs], close to 30% there [at least by the page count of the 250+ page assembly manual.] That's the bed w tracks, dogs, axle, tires, jackstands; I think the light kit's first up today.
> 
> ...



You probably have been there, but just in case, The Norwood Connect forum has a lot of knowledgeable, friendly folks that can answer a lot of your questions.


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## pete_86 (Nov 22, 2014)

Wow, 250 pg manual is crazy. You've got to wonder what they'd charge for an assembly fee for guys that could do a local pickup. I'm actually not too far from the factory. Sure is a shame it's a pain to assemble, for the price these things sell for.


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## hamish (Nov 22, 2014)

Blackbeered said:


> Yes, it's an HD36 [with trailer pkg, 23HP upgrade, and log loading kit].
> 
> After yesterday [~ 28 man hrs], close to 30% there [at least by the page count of the 250+ page assembly manual.] That's the bed w tracks, dogs, axle, tires, jackstands; I think the light kit's first up today.
> 
> ...



Wow guess you never played with Lego growing up. The last thing they need are technical writers, then nobody could assemble the darn things. I assembled my ML26 in 7 hours start to finish.

I have helped assemble an HD36, its not rocket science.


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## Blackbeered (Nov 23, 2014)

Thanks for your insight. Sorry you don't know what a "technical writer" does.

And, I needed half of your seven hours assembly time just to re-tap every "painted in" hole!


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## pete_86 (Jul 18, 2015)

Any updates on your work? Hope you've been enjoying the mill and having some good weather.


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