# Use 2 fliplines?



## ACE (Feb 7, 2007)

Hey guys-
Im a virgin in the tree business. If you're ascending a tree with only spikes and a flipline, do you use two fliplines? Im just thinking that in the unlikely event that one flipline may break at least you have a backup. Also if you come to a crotch and need to untie and tie back in. Anyone?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 7, 2007)

First things first. 
If your lanyard breaks, you need to come on down on your climbing line, or have a new lanyard sent up. If you're not tied in with your climbing line when it breaks, get tied in immediately!
You should not work without being tied in twice.

Most climbers set up their climbing line with a split tail or prussic loop so it can be used just like a lanyard. You climb up the tree secured with your lanyard, then when you get to a branch, you tie in above the branch with the climbing line and unclip the lanyard. At the next branch, you tie in above the branch with the lanyard and unclip the climbing rope. Repeat on the way up until you're at the top.
Another useful tool is a double ended lanyard. This allows you to ascend past branches with just your lanyard, and stay tied in at all times.

All these topics and many more are cover in depth in The Tree Climbers Companion, available at Sherrill, a site sponsor here at Arboristsite (about $15).


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 7, 2007)

I re-read your post, and noticed you said yo only have spikes and a lanyard. You definately have to have a climbing line when up go up.


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## Blinky (Feb 7, 2007)

Yep I'll second on the lifeline as a reserve lanyard... it's real handy that way assuming you use a split tail so you don't have to untie every time you need to throw it around the stem or a crotch.

As you get some experience you can even take a second split tail on your harness and use the other end of your lifeline to 'double crotch' which is about the best possible way to position yourself for working.

My lanyards are double ended with a Prusik... not as simple to adjust as some of the better mechanical ones but really handy when you're climbing the tree with or without spikes and working through a bunch of limbs.

You've probably heard this but I'll go ahead and say it... don't use those spikes on trees that you have no intention of removing... it's not nice. Controversial subject and I'm not up to arguing about it, but it's worth learning to climb without spikes no matter what.

Good luck.


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## Timberhauler (Feb 7, 2007)

I use a 3n1 lanyard.That way I can always stay hooked in on the way up to set my line,unless of course I'm pruning,then I am not using spikes at all.


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## ACE (Feb 8, 2007)

*2 fliplines*

Thanks for the info guys. Has there ever been a situation where you cant get a lifeline in a tree?


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## Davey Dog (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes and no....
We do alot of big redwood removals....

You could of course go up another tree that is close at hand and tie into that tree, then proceed to climb your removal or work tree... I always do this with lighning struck and dead trees with rott....

I climb with a split tail and a double ended flip.... That essentialy gives me three points of attachment. I dont ever ((untie)) while I'm in a tree.
Like stated above, I will use my flip to throw above any lats I come to and stay tied in... In some cases where the lat is a ways up I will use my split tail and throw that up and around, the split tail gives me a better reach for longer throws.....
Also, on trees with alot of lats, I will do my limb work on the way up... Once I get to the spot I want to start my work, I wil wrap my flip and tie on to the leader using a friction strap... once my climb line is secured, I will take the wrap out of my flip and re-attach it just above my my climb line... That gives me a good solid attachment to the tree and I can then take my chunks out....
Tying in with a friction strap allows me to move my climb line easily, while still keeping me anchored. And if at any time I need to get back to the ground in a hurry, I can simply un hook my flip and descend....

This is based on the work I do, wich is alot of pine and redwood removals...

Also like stated, please dont use spikes or hooks in a tree that isnt going to be fully removed....


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## pmuscato (Feb 8, 2007)

I've tried the 3in1 lanyard but adjusted tight as i can get it and d -ring to d -ring around my back it was to long and got in my way. I do have short legs. Great concept but i had to give it up.


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## Magnum783 (Feb 8, 2007)

Always have two. I have one wire core and one 20' 7/16" with a Vt adjuster I use it as a redirect or a second flipline. If you decide to do this make sure you put either a captive eye biner or a steel rope snap as it makes it much heavier on the end and easier to throw over branches. I also recomend always using a thimble, this is only personel preferance. I use my wirecore all the time on the way up and most of the time do take the climbing rope to use as a egress route. I only set the climbing line up when I have reached the point where I want to do my work. All this is just what I do, not postive it is perfectly correct but I agree with the earlier post about using your climbing line in a neghboring tree when the tree is lightning struck or rot is suspected. I wouldn't have a borken arm and elbow if I had done just that.
Jared


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## emr (Feb 8, 2007)

Whats a 3 in 1 lanyard? Anyone have a pict?


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## beowulf343 (Feb 8, 2007)

Used a three in one several years but now just use a flipline with my climbing line and a split tail as a second lanyard. The three in one's are great but if you need to get over a big branch in a big tree, unless they are a ridiculous length, they are just not long enough. Add a micro-pulley and the climbing line with a split tail can easily be adjusted to any length even with one hand.


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## Davey Dog (Feb 8, 2007)

Second that.....
The three in one is a great concept, But I have the same problems with them... They are either to damn short or in the way....


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## Tree Machine (Feb 9, 2007)

I think if you're climbing really big trees, like Davey Dog and the British Columbia guys, two fliplines is almost essential, long ones at that. If you're climbing 'normal' big trees, the extra flipline is just that- extra. 

Let's say you've got a climbing line, towing a rigging line and you've got two fliplines and you're trying to work your way around the crown, a chainsaw hanging amidst all that. Not saying that's a bad situation or anything, it just is what it is. It all depends what kind of work you're doing.

Coming down a spar, we use a flipline as our tie-in once and our climbing line fashioned as a flipline for our tie-in twice, which is two fliplines. A 'second' flipline, in that case would be a third. You could use two fliplines and hip your climbing line, but if for some reason you had to bail quickly, your climbing line is not set and ready.

As far as a flipline too short, generally speaking, your flipline is plenty long for most practical purposes. If, say, you're working down a fat spar and you've maxxed out your flipline, you can attach a loop runner or some other rated sling to extend the length for those infrequent times when you might need it.

The extra flipline, we can assume, is for added safety or versatility, but if you're tripping around in your own kit and things are getting tangled and you're not using one of the items but with minor occasion, you can always change. To really know if it will work for you is to just try it.


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## ray benson (Feb 9, 2007)

emr said:


> Whats a 3 in 1 lanyard? Anyone have a pict?



Is this the 3 in 1? They call it a 2 in 1.
http://www.oregondealer.com/sheldonhill/merchant.cfm?pid=157&step=4


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## Tree Machine (Feb 9, 2007)

No, that's just a double-ended flipline.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 11, 2007)

Timberhauler said:


> I use a 3n1 lanyard.That way I can always stay hooked in on the way up to set my line,unless of course I'm pruning,then I am not using spikes at all.



What is a 3 in 1 lanyard? It's a new one to me.


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## beowulf343 (Feb 11, 2007)

Ha, ha You caught me. Figured he was talking about the 2 in 1 and just knew it by a different name. They go by a couple different names around here and that is one of them. If he was talking about something other than a 2 in 1, then I have no idea what it is.:blush:


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## beezer (Feb 11, 2007)

Nevermind............thought I knew, I'm thinking of 2 in 1 as well.


Beezer


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 11, 2007)

Got me!  I had all kinds of ideas of what it was. 
My best thought was one prussic holding three ropes, each with a snap on the end. That might work, I don't know.


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## D Mc (Feb 11, 2007)

Two flips lines has become my preferred method on removals of excurrent (pines, firs, spruce, etc.) trees. In most cases, I can remove limbs on the way up so I keep my climbing line coiled on my left hip to prevent entanglement and therefore eliminating the necessity of the ground person having to get underneath. 

If the situation requires, the second flip line becomes an instantly available false crotch for a decent. 

I have tried using friction savers for the second tie in and I am just not as comfortable as with the two flip lines. 

DMc


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## Curtis James (Feb 11, 2007)

I climb with a two in one lanyard and I have the gibbs lanyard also. I like to get extra support once in awhile. on removals I tie onto the trunk srt so if something goes wrong i can still descend. i was always so nervous on a spar before I learned how to tie in like i do now.


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