# Bee Line as split tail??



## PowersTree (Jan 6, 2007)

I have a new Bee Line split tail that I use a Blakes Hitch on. Mated to a Hi-V Saftey blue line. After only a handful of climbs it is already showing signs of wear. My question is, is this line not designed for this use?


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## okietreedude1 (Jan 6, 2007)

This is exactly what this was designed for.

Keep on using it. Its going to be just fine. Ive been climbing on the same piece since June w/ no problems whatsoever.

The yellow coloring is technora which has a melting point of 900 degrees and even then doesnt really melt. It more like chars. Youll melt your climbing line before you melt the beeline.


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## ecrockett (Jan 6, 2007)

yea same thing happened to me with a new beeline. Keep at it, it'll be fine. However, i really like Samson's new ice line as my eye-eye ST. Works well for a lighter climber, due to the soft texture of the rope. Samson reps at TCI Expo were  - spliced my line for free. $7 split tail!


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## NickfromWI (Jan 6, 2007)

Are you using the heavy diameter Beeline? The one that is like 10mm?

Typically, when using blakes hitch, people will tie the knot with a split tail of equal diameter to that of their climbing line.

I use beeline with a VT (or whatever closed hitch I'm using that day) It will take a beating and keep going. 

Is the wear you're seeing on the black polyester strands?

love
nick

PS- Yale is changing the weave of beeline just a bit. They are tightening it up just a bit. If you like it the way it is, you better stock up now!


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## okietreedude1 (Jan 6, 2007)

NickfromWI said:


> If you like it the way it is, you better stock up now!



Are you saying the new is BETTER or WORSE?


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## NickfromWI (Jan 6, 2007)

I haven't used it yet, but as I understand, the new is better in use, but a little harder to splice. 

We'll see how it goes!

love
nick


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## ecrockett (Jan 6, 2007)

NickfromWI said:


> Are you using the heavy diameter Beeline? The one that is like 10mm?
> 
> Typically, when using blakes hitch, people will tie the knot with a split tail of equal diameter to that of their climbing line.
> 
> ...



Yea that was exactly what i saw. I was using an 8mm with an eye-eye splice in it, therefore i was usually a distel as my friction hitch. I actually don't prefer the beeline anymore compared to samson's new syn ropes.


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## NickfromWI (Jan 7, 2007)

ecrockett said:


> Yea that was exactly what i saw. I was using an 8mm with an eye-eye splice in it, therefore i was usually a distel as my friction hitch. I actually don't prefer the beeline anymore compared to samson's new syn ropes.



Who spliced the beeline?

love
nick


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## ecrockett (Jan 7, 2007)

NickfromWI said:


> Who spliced the beeline?
> 
> love
> nick



It came like that when i ordered it from Sherrill.

Sherrill Item Number: 30967


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## Magnum783 (Jan 7, 2007)

ecrockett said:


> yea same thing happened to me with a new beeline. Keep at it, it'll be fine. However, i really like Samson's new ice line as my eye-eye ST. Works well for a lighter climber, due to the soft texture of the rope. Samson reps at TCI Expo were  - spliced my line for free. $7 split tail!



Where did you fine the Ice Line I would like to give it a try?
Jared


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## NickfromWI (Jan 7, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> Where did you fine the Ice Line I would like to give it a try?
> Jared



Lanphear Supply has it. I can splice it, too.

love
nick


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## ecrockett (Jan 8, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> Where did you fine the Ice Line I would like to give it a try?
> Jared



Fresco had a display set up at TCI Expo in Baltimore in November. I bought about 3 ft. of Ice Line from them, and the guys at the Samson booth spliced it for free.


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## Blinky (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm using 8mm Beeline with a Distel. At first I was pretty jumpy about it because it seemed to be wearing fast, but it was just breaking in. I like it fine, hugs the rope, grips and releases easily and can take the heat of a long free air descent. Someone said to watch the black fibers and when they get tatty it's time for a new one. 

I don't know about with a Blake's though, I thought that was supposed to be tied the same diameter as the climbing rope.


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## NickfromWI (Jan 10, 2007)

Blinky said:


> I don't know about with a Blake's though, I thought that was supposed to be tied the same diameter as the climbing rope.



You are correct, sir.

love
nick


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## SteveBullman (Jan 11, 2007)

how does beeline work in the wet


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## Blinky (Jan 11, 2007)

stephenbullman said:


> how does beeline work in the wet



I soaked mine the other day after my rope flopped into a puddle, had to descend about 30' on just the rope. I couldn't tell any difference in the way it gripped the rope but I got soaked as it squeezed the water out and straight onto my lap.

There may be better cord for a Distel but Beeline works pretty well.


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## Tim Krause (Jan 30, 2007)

*crusty bee line*

bought a bee line split tail hoping it would hold up better working off the crane. it didn't. so i started tying a taught line hitch with two turns over three turns. this seems to work pretty good.


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## NickfromWI (Jan 31, 2007)

Tim Krause said:


> bought a bee line split tail hoping it would hold up better working off the crane. it didn't. so i started tying a taught line hitch with two turns over three turns. this seems to work pretty good.



Was working of the crane any different on the hitch than regular climbing? 

What aspect of it didn't work out for you?

love
nick


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## Tim Krause (Jan 31, 2007)

NickfromWI said:


> Was working of the crane any different on the hitch than regular climbing?
> 
> What aspect of it didn't work out for you?
> 
> ...



Yes. we use a screw link shackle attached above the hook so there is no friction at the tie in point. burns through split tails pretty quickly.


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## NickfromWI (Jan 31, 2007)

Tim Krause said:


> Yes. we use a screw link shackle attached above the hook so there is no friction at the tie in point. burns through split tails pretty quickly.



That's what I was wondering. I use the small diameter beeline on an ART pulley, which would have even less friction than the shackle you're using. I have no problems with it.

What hitch do you use? What do you weigh? How do you climb?

love
nick


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## kamcbrayer (Sep 24, 2008)

*Blake's Hitch and 3/8" Bee Line*



Blinky said:


> I'm using 8mm Beeline with a Distel. At first I was pretty jumpy about it because it seemed to be wearing fast, but it was just breaking in. I like it fine, hugs the rope, grips and releases easily and can take the heat of a long free air descent. Someone said to watch the black fibers and when they get tatty it's time for a new one.
> 
> I don't know about with a Blake's though, I thought that was supposed to be tied the same diameter as the climbing rope.





Learned my lesson today with a tight eye split tail with the Bee Line today. It seizes up on my 1/2" Safety Blue climb line. I didn't realize that they had to be the same diameter to work properly. Pain in the rear getting back down.


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## ClimbinArbor (Sep 24, 2008)

beeline wears out quick on me too.

i have sherrill special make my e2es out of safety blue. works like a charm.


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## md_tree_dood (Sep 25, 2008)

I have a grizzly spliced beeline eye to eye and a beeline split tail and hate both of them. They tighten up way to fast and are to hard to tend and don't run well. I prefer tenex or ice for eye 2 eyes and I use whatever line I'm climbing on as a split tail for climbing on a blakes. 

As far as the split tail goes, I had to cut the sealed end of mine off after about 10 uses due to a milking issue, cut off the excess and then reseal it with tape and a lighter.


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## rbtree (Sep 25, 2008)

I prefer HRC to Beeline, which I find too soft for my liking. Haven't been climbing much lately due to my injured knee, but have a new Bailout cord, which is small diameter, and thus probably best suited to 11 mm lifelines. One of my guys loves his...and ITCC former champ Kathy Holzer swears by hers....after a year of use, it still is unblemished.

As others have said, an open ended split tail is best if about the same diameter the line it's tied on.


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## Slvrmple72 (Sep 25, 2008)

So I have been climbing on Arbormaster with a split tail for Blakes and now I want to try an 11mm line and an 8mm e2e (Schwabish, Distel, VT ). Thinking of Samson Velocity and Ice for a combo. What do you small dia line guys use for your combo?


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## md_tree_dood (Sep 25, 2008)

I personally prefer the smaller line with a larger e2e much like what you're discussing with velocity and ice. I climb on Lava and have used 10mm beeline and thought it gripped too hard and went back to tenex which is identical to ICE with the exception of melting point. I've climbed on velocity with tenex and its nice. You may want to look into Lava before you buy though, it offers more grip then velocity and is more durable than poison ivy.


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## Slvrmple72 (Sep 25, 2008)

I will have to take a look at Lava. Been using Samson for years though!


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## md_tree_dood (Sep 25, 2008)

Understandably so. I got the line the first week it was out and have converted 2 people so far, you could be the third, the weight and tactile feel of it are worth the purchase alone


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## Slvrmple72 (Sep 26, 2008)

md_tree_dood said:


> Understandably so. I got the line the first week it was out and have converted 2 people so far, you could be the third, the weight and tactile feel of it are worth the purchase alone



What are you using for your setup? Blakes,VT, what kind of split tail?


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## 2FatGuys (Sep 26, 2008)

Also, what length e2e?


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## HolmenTree (Sep 27, 2008)

I learned to climb not long after the Blakes was invented. Have always footlocked with a 1/2" Bluestreak and 16 strand 1/2" Safety Blue with a Blakes. Years back I heard all this talk about the 5/16 beeline with a Distel. I tried this system, for quite a long time but I'm the guy who likes 5/8 lanyards and the Macrograb and large D rings on my Traverse saddle. So I went back to my old Safety Blue Blakes. My system is nothing fancy but always reliable and tough .


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## md_tree_dood (Sep 30, 2008)

Slvrmple72 said:


> What are you using for your setup? Blakes,VT, what kind of split tail?



I vary my climbing setup depending on my mood but most likely, Lava line, tenex with a micropulley, no dog snap, tied with a distel. As far as length of e2e, I believe its 12 inches. I weigh about 210 so I take 5 wraps with a tenex and it runs and tends extremely well. I used to use a swabisch with a dog snap but for I got away from that for a number of different reasons.

I also climb with Lava line and a split tail made from the spliced eye that I cut off my line with a micro pulley and dog snap with a blakes hitch. Generally speaking though I only do this when I'm not gonna move around the tree alot as I think the distel runs better.


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## BigUglySquirrel (Sep 30, 2008)

*new to eye and eye*

Hey guys... Been climbing on Blue Streak since I started on a tauntline with a traditional bridge. Made the change to a split tail and micro pulley bout a year ago. Again, stayed with the 16 strand rope for my tail. I'm a heavier climber, right around 210-215 without gear. Anyway...I've noticed that my Blakes hitch tends to lock up pretty danged tight. I tried taking an extra wrap which seems to alleviate the locking up pretty well, but it wants to glaze my rope on a decent...even at moderate speeds. I'm not bailing out balls-to-the-wall by any means. I understand the extra wrap generates more heat so it makes sense. Here's the point--It's lead me to considering an eye and eye hitch (And the fact that the dog snap drives me bonkers!) My saddle is a Tree Austria if it makes a difference at all to you well versed in the eye and eye. I ascend either on spikes for removals or by good ole body thrust for pruning/trimming etc. I am looking into mechanical ascender setups if anyone has some input for me, I'll post that in another thread. I'm not familiar at all with the new generation of products in rope or advanced hitches. Any recomendations that you all might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.


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## HolmenTree (Sep 30, 2008)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> Hey guys... Been climbing on Blue Streak since I started on a tauntline with a traditional bridge. Made the change to a split tail and micro pulley bout a year ago. Again, stayed with the 16 strand rope for my tail. I'm a heavier climber, right around 210-215 without gear. Anyway...I've noticed that my Blakes hitch tends to lock up pretty danged tight. I tried taking an extra wrap which seems to alleviate the locking up pretty well, but it wants to glaze my rope on a decent...even at moderate speeds. I'm not bailing out balls-to-the-wall by any means. I understand the extra wrap generates more heat so it makes sense. Here's the point--It's lead me to considering an eye and eye hitch (And the fact that the dog snap drives me bonkers!) My saddle is a Tree Austria if it makes a difference at all to you well versed in the eye and eye. I ascend either on spikes for removals or by good ole body thrust for pruning/trimming etc. I am looking into mechanical ascender setups if anyone has some input for me, I'll post that in another thread. I'm not familiar at all with the new generation of products in rope or advanced hitches. Any recomendations that you all might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.



Are you using a friction saver false crotch[2 ring strap]? The friction saver takes alot of stress out of your friction hitch and makes climbing alot easier especially if your a heavy climber. I always run 4 wraps on my Blakes. I would say my best advice is get good at footlocking the tail of your splittail.Forget mechanical ascenders ,just extra stuff to worry about or fail.

Gotta go, gotta get up early for a long out of town work schedule , back on Sat.


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## BigUglySquirrel (Sep 30, 2008)

I know I'm going to catch all kinds of hell for this, but no. I've never used a friction saver. I'm a natural crotch guy unless I hafta use a false crotch on a spar (no natural crotch to rope into) 

Are friction savers REALLY all they're cracked up to be? I mean, God bless the catalogs.... I love em. But let's face it...they are in business to sell gear. I'm not knockin anyone...don't get me wrong. I just wonder how much is hype and how much is on the level sometimes. So friction savers are legit for guys like me? Educate fella's....I'm listening.


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## ClimbinArbor (Oct 2, 2008)

i use the rope saver/leather horseshoe on natural crotch rigging. it keeps the friction off of the limb your tied into, thus saving on the tree. it also lowers the amount of friction needed to advance the line.

havent tried the ring and rings yet.


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## All Seasons Jim (Oct 5, 2008)

New here, but thought I'd input on the friction savers. The ring type FS work very well, they make the rope move much easier, I am a small guy (150 lb + gear) and can't imagine NOT using one. I made an adjustable friction saver out of Arbor-Plex, Ultra-Tech and aluminum rings, that is great for spars or any thing else.


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## Adkpk (Oct 5, 2008)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> I'm not bailing out balls-to-the-wall by any means.
> 
> Any recomendations that you all might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.



I bail on my 8, takes the weight off the hitch therefore less burn. As long as the 8 takes your weight the hitch stays cool but ads the backup if you fall asleep on your descent.


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## BigUglySquirrel (Oct 5, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> I bail on my 8, takes the weight off the hitch therefore less burn. As long as the 8 takes your weight the hitch stays cool but ads the backup if you fall asleep on your descent.



Never used an 8 before. I'll get a friction saver...been looking at the adjustable version with the prusik. I've been looking at my jobs in a light of "could that work here?" and resoundingly...yeah, I think it would not only work for me but would make me more productive in a few scenarios. So we'll give it a go...I'll let you guys know how it works for me. Thanks!

Back to the 8....any recommendations? There have to be a MILLION different styles


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## HolmenTree (Oct 6, 2008)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> Never used an 8 before. I'll get a friction saver...been looking at the adjustable version with the prusik. I've been looking at my jobs in a light of "could that work here?" and resoundingly...yeah, I think it would not only work for me but would make me more productive in a few scenarios. So we'll give it a go...I'll let you guys know how it works for me. Thanks!
> 
> Back to the 8....any recommendations? There have to be a MILLION different styles



Don't forget the Bigshot ,shotbag and line ,only way to get that friction saver up there properly.Get the Tree Climbers Companion booklet best advice to start with ,then move on and take a few Arbormaster Training courses.

Willard


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## 046 (Oct 6, 2008)

how's about a pic of the wear?



PowersTree said:


> I have a new Bee Line split tail that I use a Blakes Hitch on. Mated to a Hi-V Saftey blue line. After only a handful of climbs it is already showing signs of wear. My question is, is this line not designed for this use?


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