# wood gasification boiler/furnace experiences



## 58hydraglide (Mar 14, 2008)

Does anyone here have any first or secondhand experience with the cleaner burnig tarm, greenwood , garn etc. gasification furnaces. I have been doing a lot of research on the subject and am looking at going from woodstove to outdoor wood heat. The current issues regarding OWB's and emissions is getting pretty close to home and these seem to be the next generation of boilers. If i am going to install one I would prefer to go with one of the cleaner burning models as I'm convinced that this current issue is going to be get larger and more widespread. I am curious how these measure up in regards to wood use/ whole house heating capabilities as compared to the conventional OWB's I understand the theory on the gasification units, but are there any units similar that don't require additonal air introduction (blower fan)
I know one of the larger OWB manufacturers claims the there's is the cleanest burning, but there emissions charts compare themselves with other boilers and their baseline is what % GREATER their competitors emissions are as compared to theirs. Not ACTUAL particles per hour measurements. Leaves me somewhat skeptical.


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## doubletodd (Mar 15, 2008)

the key to gassification seems to be a larger liquid storage capacity where the water is heated and stored firing is done in two hours very hot burn and then does'nt need to be fired again for about 12 hours. sounds interesting, but would like to see if one could be homebuilt as I do not have $10-15k to spend at the moment


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## windthrown (Mar 15, 2008)

Three issues here: one is that the gassifiers are not really outdoor boilers (none are sold as such anyway). Another is what 2todd says about the large water storage tanks required to go with the gassifiers. Also the gassifiers tend to cost a lot more than OWBs. These are the basic difference between the typical outdoor wood boilers (OWB) and wood gassifiers (WG). There is also the issue of efficiency, and clean burning, which the WGs tend to do better (though there are some clean burning OWBs being sold now, from the likes of CB). Another aspect is that OWBs will burn ANY type (and size) of wood in any orientation; wet, green, rotten, seasoned, dry, or scrap... whereas the WG will only burn specific sized and placed seasoned and dry wood. 

We did not buy a gassifier here becasue of the costs, and we do not have the space inside the house, or on the carport slab for a gassifier and water tanks. If we did, I would have opted for building a Russian style fireplace instead, and used bricks for storing the heat instead of water tanks with a WG system. The Russian fireplace works the same as a WG; burn a small fire fast and hot and store the energy. In contrast, the OWB burns slow and long, and heats just enough water to circulate into some type of heat excahngers. In their design, the energy is stored in the unburned wood in the firebox.


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## doubletodd (Mar 15, 2008)

where can i find more info on russian fireplace,I have lots of bricks!


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## grandpatractor (Mar 15, 2008)

doubletodd said:


> where can i find more info on russian fireplace,I have lots of bricks!



Some of your kids would probably like that russian fireplace.:monkey:


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## windthrown (Mar 15, 2008)

Russian Fireplace information and designs are hard to find. I have only one out of print book on fireplaces that has anything on them. Most of the stuff is in Russian... and impossible to read. 

I do know a guy that has a CD for sale that has details, animation and plans for five types of Russin/Skandinavian fireplaces online: His name is Stanley Petroskey and his web site is: 

http://www.singingfalls.com/masonry_furnace.html

I have seen his Russian fireplace, and I can attest that it works! If you have a lot of bricks, that is the way to go!


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## doubletodd (Mar 15, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Some of your kids would probably like that russian fireplace.:monkey:



yeah, maybe they have some ideas. grandpatractor is referring to the fact my wife and I adopted two russian children. andrei,12 and masa 11. I amm sure there are many simple types of heating systems in russia. they seem to live much simpler than we do, and thanks for the info. p.s. got that fikers yesterday and whacked a bunch of oak with it today


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## doubletodd (Mar 15, 2008)

hey I just hit 100


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## KsWoodsMan (Mar 15, 2008)

My understanding of gasification differs from what you described. At least in "the key" to it. OWB's in general store a large amount of heat in water/glycol. 
In a traditional boiler setup the 'water' is heated by the primary burn. Any unburned smoke or gasses goes up the flue pipe. With Gasification the primary burn is to extract the volital gasses to be used as the fuel for the secondary burn. The volitales, smoke and particulate matter are burned to create the heat needed to raise the temps of the stored 'water'.

The wood is pyrolized (sp?) or partially burned releasing the volitales (smoke). When heated fresh air is introduced, at the correct ratio, to the hot gasses you get a complete combustion. Resulting in lower exhaust emmisions. This secondary burn is what heats the storage tanks. It might be a consistant small burn happening for a longer period of time maintaining the temperature of the stored 'water' or an occasional fast burn when additional heat is needed for recovery.

I would opt for the first method of a smaller and possibly more efficient burn over a longer period of time that had the capability of scaling up when needed for additional heat. As opposed to smoldering for long periods and going to an occasional 'hot burn' that is only efficient when burning at maximum.

The first method might use more fuel maintaining a small efficient fire but should produce fewer emmisions over the same season of burning. In Whole Gasification should be more economical in terms of total fuel used during the season. Since all or most of the fuel is being consumed either in pimary or secondary burn instead of allowing part of the useable fuel to be wasted going up the stack as particulates or unburned smoke. I have heard the difference to be in the order of 50%-70% less wood used. By utilising more of the available fuel efficiently this is within reason. 

I am seriously considering building a downdraft gasifier/burner to replace my current wood burner. And hoping to raise the efficiency from about 25% to better than 65%. Less wood across the hearth translates into less to haul back outside.


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## HEAVY FUEL (Mar 16, 2008)

doubletodd said:


> hey I just hit 100



Yep, he's hooked!!!:biggrinbounce2:


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## ktm rider (Mar 16, 2008)

I have never seen a gasifier in action but my co worker bought an AHS gasifier for his radiant heat system and he loves it and couldn't be happier. I don't think the AHS requires a water storage tank, but i could be wrong about that.


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## windthrown (Mar 17, 2008)

This one seems to marry all the aspects of a traditional OWB and a WGB into one. 

Good points:
-EPA approved 
-Outside with the wood
-Large filrebox, large wood capacity (less splitting) 
-Low smoke, emissions and heat exhaust
-Long burn times
-Wood gassification for high efficiency burning 

Not good points: 
-New company, has not been around 
-Spendy; $10 grand for one that fits out size and needs
-Not sure of some aspects of the build quality 
-Heavy mothers... would be expensive to ship

However, it is not the only EPA certified clean burning OWB. Central boiler has the E-Classic 2300 OWB that has qualified for the U.S. EPA (OWHH) program.


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## windthrown (Mar 17, 2008)

How long is a while? I have seen many OWB companies come and go. Too many, really. For 10 grand... I am leery of buying from a new company. Not that I am looking to replace the CB we have here now, but if the efficiency is that much better, it may be worth it to replace it (already plumbed and a slab foundation). Easier to cut and store and load half the wood.


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## blackdoggy (Mar 20, 2008)

doubletodd said:


> the key to gassification seems to be a larger liquid storage capacity where the water is heated and stored firing is done in two hours very hot burn and then does'nt need to be fired again for about 12 hours. sounds interesting, but would like to see if one could be homebuilt as I do not have $10-15k to spend at the moment



If some one gives me the plans I have a full shop here I can use to build one not to mention for a few $$ I have a retired certified welder I can get to come over to do the exacting welds. I will have in a few months a freshly remodeled home I can heat with it which I will run radiant floor heating though.


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## doubletodd (Mar 20, 2008)

good Idea, I hope it works out.


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## Brad DeBoer (Mar 25, 2008)

You can run a wood gasification boiler without storage. I have a Tarm Excel 2000, which is a combined wood/oil (or gas) boiler. Picture it as the standard Tarm wood boiler with an oil furnace added to the back. We ran the unit for three years before adding storage to it, and it worked well, as long as it didn't get warmer than ~40 degrees outside. Once it got to 40, the boiler would sit and smolder for long periods, so we would let it run oil. 

Two years ago, I installed the 620 gal. heat storage system from Tarm. Since then, we've burned less than 100 gal. of oil, which has been a real cost savings with oil prices these days. We run it all year, including in the summer for domestic hot water. I light the boiler once a week and get the tank up to 180 degrees, and that lasts a family of four the entire week... If I had to do it over, I'd buy a wood-only boiler and use electricity for a backup so I could do away with the oil altogether.

The primary disadvantage to the Tarm over an OWB is that it's pretty picky about wood. The wood needs to be split pretty fine (>6"), and it needs to be dry to run well. I'm into some pretty green wood right now, and it's not that happy burning it. It will, but it's nowhere near as efficient and much harder to get the fire going than when the wood is dry. My dad has an OWB, and that thing will burn anything that fits through the door....

Brad


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## sthomps (Mar 27, 2008)

*Hs Tarm*

I'm been running a HS Tarm solo plus 60 (just wood) for the last three years and I like the boiler, but it is true what Brad said about them not liking the 40+ temps. I'm not running a storage tank but I have not had the oil furnace in our house run for the last couple years. I think they don't burn as good when it gets warm out because the fan never comes on to let it burn right. I have my boiler in my garage that's about 130' from my house, and I'm glad I didn't buy a OWB just because of the volume of wood they use. A few people that live close by use about double what I do for a very close square footage. Mind you they can burn bigger lengths of wood. I can almost heat my garage that's 24'x33' with the heat that comes off of my insulated boiler, so that heat is lost to the outside air on a OWB. I also like the fact that when its blowing snow and windy out, I only have to get to my garage, then I can take my time and load my boiler, clean out the ash,wash the truck...


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## Tim321 (Mar 28, 2008)

*"Blue Forge" wood stove*

Here is a link to company that has a video of there unit burning. I looking into getting one of these last fall, cost was about $8500. He also said this is not an outdoor unit, should be placed in an unattached garage.

http://www.ka-lesdistributing.com/


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## sthomps (Mar 28, 2008)

*Hs Tarm*

I was also going to say in my last post that my boiler also does not like to burn wet wood, but I don't think that just because a boiler puts in enough air to burn wet wood makes it a better boiler. Burning wet wood seems like a wast to me. It takes as much work to get it to the boiler, but you don't get as much heat out of it. 
Kind of on the same topic, how many people that are running a OWB or an indoor one like me are only running the hot water to the house when it is demanded? It seems like everyone I have talked to runs the hot water pump all of the time and controls the heat in the house by turning the fan on and off, if they are using forced air. I know there is heat loss through the ground even if I only run the pump when needed.


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## scryan (Mar 31, 2008)

Does anybody have experience with a Garn system? I've read a lot of positive things about their gassification system, but nobody in Upstate NY seems to have heard of them (or really of gassification for that matter). Any idea how much they run?

Who are considered the best companies on the market for wood furnaces/boilers?


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## Marc (Mar 31, 2008)

scryan said:


> Does anybody have experience with a Garn system? I've read a lot of positive things about their gassification system, but nobody in Upstate NY seems to have heard of them (or really of gassification for that matter). Any idea how much they run?
> 
> Who are considered the best companies on the market for wood furnaces/boilers?



From what I've read about Garn's.. and for anyone who doesn't know, Garn makes a gasifying boiler integrated with large water storage...

Pro's:
-Cost of boiler and storage up front all at once
-"Turn key" operation
-Storage and boiler all under same waranty

Con's:
-Large and heavy
-Boiler must heat the thermal mass of the storage before heat can be delivered to the house or DHW
-Cost of boiler and storage up front all at once
-Add on's can be tricky (i.e. solar water panels later on)


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## IvyHill (May 14, 2008)

*wood boilers*

Ok, I'm new to this site, so please forgive any error in jumping in here. I thought about owb's, but isn't practicle for me. Have been researching gasification woodburning stoves. They seem my best option but still learning. I have an old oil burning furnace with radiant baseboard and radiators as well as forced hot air. But my furnace is broken and needs replacing. Want to get away from oil. Anyone had experience converting and know how difficult it is? Wondering if anyone knows or has experience with Econoburn woodburning boilers? Also, is the stainles steel issue worth the price with AHS's? I live in VA so our Winters vary alot in temp. Can go for weeks in the 40's only. Does that make a difference with the boilers efficency and which one i should choose?


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## IvyHill (May 14, 2008)

Ok, I'm new to this site, so please forgive any error in jumping in here. I thought about owb's, but isn't practicle for me. Have been researching gasification woodburning stoves. They seem my best option but still learning. I have an old oil burning furnace with radiant baseboard and radiators as well as forced hot air. But my furnace is broken and needs replacing. Want to get away from oil. Anyone had experience converting and know how difficult it is? Wondering if anyone knows or has experience with Econoburn woodburning boilers? Also, is the stainles steel issue worth the price with AHS's? I live in VA so our Winters vary alot in temp. Can go for weeks in the 40's only. Does that make a difference with the boilers efficency and which one i should choose?


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## windthrown (May 15, 2008)

Oil furnaces can be augmented with an indoor gassification boiler. Not that hard to do. They can be retrofitted, but you lose the advantage in an OWB of having a boiler inside the house and having to drag wood inside all the time. As others have mentioned here, you also need to burn seasoned wood in a gassifier, and smaller sized wood. In most gassification systems you also have a much larger water heating system, as the wood/gas burn is typically a shorter time at a much higher temp, which makes them more efficient than a typical OWB, but for a much shorter time period. Some people have noted that a gassifier is harder to run at mild ambient temps, like above 40 degrees. With an OWB, all you do is burn a low fire with a few logs in there and let it smolder all day. That is the mode I am running ours at now, and it keeps the hot water good and hot, and hardly smokes or uses very much wood. 

Note that one big difference between OWBs and indoor boilers has been that the EPA completely controls the emissions on indoor boilers. This is changing now and they are now certifiing OWBs, after some states have begun regulating or banning them (particularly OH, WA, NY, WI, and all of New England). There are newer OWBs that are combination gassifiers with high burning efficiency and very low emissions, but retain the advantage of burning any type and size of wood, like the new E class boilers from Central Boiler, and they can be placed outside the house. I would look into one of those. Someone on another thread on AS posted a good list of the EPA approved boilers out there now. 

With either type of boiler retrofitting, you can plumb either system with PEX lines from the boilers to run to water to air heat exchanger inside your existing hot air furnace, or to water to water heat exchangers to a hydronic heating loop in the house (that is what we have here). You can also add a water to water heat exchanger to your existing hot water heater. If you were running with steam radiators, that is a different story. Personally I would never buy a wood fired boiler of any type that has a pressurized system with steam or hot water. They are dangerous, and they are not needed. Open system are a lot safer, and pretty fail safe in regard to not blowing up. 

Anyway, do a lot of looking around and get a good idea of what you want. You will probably have to hire someone to design a retrofit system, or do it yourself. I did the entire design of our system here, with a pre-existing electric hydronic floor heating boiler and a pre-existing solar hot water system that feeds a standard electric hot water system. All applications are typically different, and take some time to design and install. Not all systems work well, and not all boilers (gassifiers or OWBs) are made the same. There are and have been a lot of fly-by-night boiler companies out there. 

I have researched stainless steel, and I would not recommend it. Several reasons, one being that they are a lot more expensive, they have a lower heat exchange rate, they are a pain to weld and fix, and they tend to be more brittle than carbon steel. With carbon steel all you need to do is run an anti-corrosive in the water lines and you are good to go for 3 years. I have zero rust in the CB here after 3 heating seasons, inside or out of the firebox and water tank. CB makes their tanks with good thick steel. More steel is better. 

Hope this helps... and get a good chainsaw too, 'cause you will need a lot of firewood, no matter how efficient a system you get. I calculate our OWB to be between 30 and 40% efficient. That is comparig the amount of wood energy burned to the amount of electricity we used here to heat the same house the years prior to installing the OWB. We burn well seasoned wood most of the time, and we burn the smallest amount of wood that we can to make it more efficient. If you always completely fill an OWB with wood, you make a lot of charcoal in the off-duty cycle at the top of the wood stank in the firebox, and then a lot of wood gasses escape up the flue.


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## Marc (May 15, 2008)

I agree with most of what windthrown said, although I have a stronger affinity for gasifiers simply because I like efficiency and would rather plan ahead and season 4 cords of wood than have to deal with maybe twice as much.

Where I'd suggest more clarification is in the classification of the boilers. And OWB can be a gasifying boiler just as an indoor boiler can be a water jacket boiler. It just so happens that the vast majority of OWB's are water jacket type boilers... this is where the inefficiency is introduced. For complete combustion of cellulosic materials like wood fiber to occur requires a high temperatures, which parts of the inside of a water jacketed boiler (near the walls) will not see.

This is why indoor water jacket boilers fell out of favor with most homeowners. The incomplete combustion leads to products of combustion prone to coating chimney walls with creosote and other volatiles... not so much of a problem if the boiler is outside and away from the house.

I also disagree that a pressurized wood boiler is dangerous and they can be extremely convenient. PRV's are a pretty mature, reliable and well tested technology.

As far as Econoburn's go, from what I understand they're very well built but also more expensive than comparable forced downdraft boilers, like Tarm's, Eko's, Wood Gun's, etc.


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## windthrown (May 15, 2008)

Indoor water jacket boilers are not common becasue of EPA requirements more than anything else. Once a boiler is installed inside the house, it falls under EPA jourisdiction. That is why you do not see them any more. And hence why I make that distinction between most indoor and outdoor types of boilers. This is changing now with new state requirements; and in the end, typical water jacket boilers will probably be a thing of the past. 

Having once been a plumber myself, and seen the damage that a typical hot water heater can do under pressure, I would never buy or install or even recommend a pressurised boiler system. I do not see that the advantage is that great in them, and open systems are commonly available and work fine. It is true that pump cavitation is avoided with pressure, and pumps last longer in pressurized systems. But pumps are not that expensive, and if you design them right, you can get enough pressure even in an open system to avoid pump cavitation damage. 

BTW: if you want a lot of opinions on this subjest, there is a lot of it over on the Mother Earth NEws Forum. Also a lot of the typical indoor stove vs OWB and wood gassifier vs OWB flame wars, and the like. Brand loyalty seems to run high, as well as design and type of wood appliance.


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## woodfarmer (May 15, 2008)

would any of these models be efficient enough to use solar power for the electricity needs or would they be required to be connected to the grid. i'm not usually home for seven days in a row so i would require one that could be left alone for 3-4 days, any suggestions?


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## windthrown (May 15, 2008)

The only real power that OWBs use is for the solenoids to open the dampers, and the Taco pumps to pump the water to the house. The Taco pump runs all the time, and the solenoid is intermittant. If you have a draft fan type of OWB, you would also need to drive the fan. Some, like the CB models, also have some lights in them, and low voltage circuitry to sence the aquastat and control the damper. Ours has a Taco 007 size pump. I do not know the amperage for that off hand, but that is where the majority of power is used. Its a 110 circuit though. Nothing big. If you have a descent PV and battery, it might do the job. I would imagine that in winter with long storm overcast, you would not get enough power from a solar PV panel to drive it though and the battery would go dead, closing the damper, and then the boiler fire would go dead. 

The other critical factor here is the wood burning though. There is no boiler on the market (OWB or WG) that will last more than one day without reloading the firewood. Most will go at most for 24 hours in winter months, and that is really stretching it in storms and deep freezes. More likely you would have to fill it 2 times a day, or once every 18 hours or so. There are alternatives though, like the CB models that have dual fuel wood and gas (oil, LP or NG) fired OWBs. I have a wood-only model though, so I cannot say how well they work. Also if you are going to be gone that long, I do not see any real option of any type of wood fired boiler. They like to be fed a steady diet of firewood.


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## woodfarmer (May 16, 2008)

i was most impressed with the CB as it has the dual fuel option that most don't, we rarely get more than 3 days with cloud cover


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## windthrown (May 16, 2008)

Wow. We can easilly get 6 weeks of solid cloud cover here, with successive storm systems plowing in from the Pacific. Different world...


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## IvyHill (May 17, 2008)

Thanks Windthrown and Marc for the info ..... Ultimately my boiler needs to be inside, whichever kind I get. I will continue my research. I don't believe my radiators are steam. My biggest problem may be finding someone qualified around here (VA) to install one. No one so far I've called has even heard of a woodburning boiler. I've been told from the company making the boilers I just need a qualified plumber. Just wondering in gereral how difficult or different they are to install than a typical oil burning furnace. One other question too, what's a PVR?


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## mtfallsmikey (May 19, 2008)

Go over to ********** . Go into "the Boiler Room"...everyone there is into gasification. Lots of different gasifier owners.


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## Marc (May 19, 2008)

IvyHill said:


> Thanks Windthrown and Marc for the info ..... Ultimately my boiler needs to be inside, whichever kind I get. I will continue my research. I don't believe my radiators are steam. My biggest problem may be finding someone qualified around here (VA) to install one. No one so far I've called has even heard of a woodburning boiler. I've been told from the company making the boilers I just need a qualified plumber. Just wondering in gereral how difficult or different they are to install than a typical oil burning furnace. One other question too, what's a PVR?



PRV = pressure relief valve.

And +1 to what mtfallsmikey said... ********** was started by the guy who originally imported Tarm boilers and everyone in the boiler room is very knowledgable, particularly about gasifiers. I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with windthrown regarding the safety of pressurized boilers, but despite whose advice you choose to follow, know that there are thousands of units in service around the world and to the best of my knowledge, catastrophic over pressure failures (especially those not attributed to operator error) are very rare.


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## mtfallsmikey (May 19, 2008)

Back in the day (around '73, arab oil embargo) we installed a lot of pressurized wood boilers piped in series with existing oil boilers, and what a disaster it was! The new ones are better designed, and I would not be afraid of them. I will say that the folks on ********** frown on OWB's. You can get outdoor gassifiers now. I chose the OWB because i do not have a basement, and there are insurance issues as well. If you were closer to me I'd be glad to help you with your install. You might try heatinghelp.com. They have a "find a contractor" section.


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## Bob Walsh (Jan 12, 2010)

I have just purchased a wood gasification boiler that I will put in a shed about 150 feet from the house - piping the heat to a 100,000 BTU copper tube heat exchanger in a thermal storage tank. My storage would be a pressurized 500 gals. propane tank with fixtures welded on for running the system in parallel or series. I am thinking that since hot temperature rises to have the hot water from the boiler plumbed in to the bottom of the tank and then the hot from the top of the tank to the DHW and radiant and baseboard systems we have in place in the house. I was also wondering if I should add more storage capacity than the 500 gals.


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## tibikedad (Jan 12, 2010)

I have a Tarm Excel 2200 gasification boiler with 820 gal of heat storage (water, non-pressurized). If I had more space, I would have increased it to 1200 gal. I can do a 5 hour burn full blast. If I had a bigger tank, this could be increased to 8 hours. The major reason for a larger tank would be on mild days. I could easily stretch my burns to one every-other day.

Be careful of any plumber that claims that it is "easy" to install these boilers. They are tricky. Either get a plumber who has a lot of experience, or make sure the plumber talks to the manufacturer's tech support before installing the boiler, or you stand a good chance of a disaster.


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## Chesterewers (Apr 21, 2011)

*fireplace*



doubletodd said:


> where can i find more info on russian fireplace,I have lots of bricks!


 
did you ever build that russian fireplace? I found a few sites with instructions on one. Looks great but I currently don't have money to spend building an addition to house one. I'll just plan on storage for the tarm,


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## Chesterewers (Apr 21, 2011)

tibikedad said:


> I have a Tarm Excel 2200 gasification boiler with 820 gal of heat storage (water, non-pressurized). If I had more space, I would have increased it to 1200 gal. I can do a 5 hour burn full blast. If I had a bigger tank, this could be increased to 8 hours. The major reason for a larger tank would be on mild days. I could easily stretch my burns to one every-other day.
> 
> Be careful of any plumber that claims that it is "easy" to install these boilers. They are tricky. Either get a plumber who has a lot of experience, or make sure the plumber talks to the manufacturer's tech support before installing the boiler, or you stand a good chance of a disaster.



Installed mine myself it wasn't tricky other than the lot of time it took to put all the joints together and tape used on it. The other hard part is setting that big thing in place so the chimney lines up. Plumbing is the fun part. The part of plumbing I have left to do is heat storage if I get one built. That will take a little work.


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## trailmaker (Apr 21, 2011)

doubletodd said:


> where can i find more info on russian fireplace,I have lots of bricks!



"Russian Fireplace" is another term for a "masonry heater". All sorts of good info at these two links.


The Masonry Heater Association Home Page - Information on masonry heaters, manufacturers, and masonry heater builders
Temp-Cast masonry heaters, masonry stoves and masonry heaters with bake ovens


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## Bricks (Apr 22, 2011)

Chesterewers said:


> Installed mine myself it wasn't tricky other than the lot of time it took to put all the joints together and tape used on it. The other hard part is setting that big thing in place so the chimney lines up. Plumbing is the fun part. The part of plumbing I have left to do is heat storage if I get one built. That will take a little work.


 


I installed my Eko 40 myself not that hard. We purchased our Eko 40 for $4,995 delivered we got a great deal it was end of the season. We heat roughly 5,000 sq ft between house and shop with 6 chords of mixed hard and soft wood with out storage. As mentioned before they are not real proud of wet wood. The Eko will burn it but not near as efficiently. 

I don`t understand why pressurized system is dangerous they run less pressure then your water heater in the basement. Pressurized system has no issues with component corrosion, the install can be at any height relative to boiler and appliances without having restrictive check valves in place..

Before buying any boiler make sure and do a heat calculation on the structures you are planning on heating. I here of to many people buying a boiler to small for there needs, or to big and really waste the wood.


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## rancher2 (Apr 23, 2011)

scryan said:


> Does anybody have experience with a Garn system? I've read a lot of positive things about their gassification system, but nobody in Upstate NY seems to have heard of them (or really of gassification for that matter). Any idea how much they run?
> 
> Who are considered the best companies on the market for wood furnaces/boilers?


 I have a Garn 2000 I like it but they are high priced at $15,000. I live where the are only two house in this mile so if I was going to do it again I would build one with 4000 gallons of storage instead of the 2000 gallons the garn has and not worry about a little smoke. I do like loading the wood inside.


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## Charly (Apr 26, 2011)

58hydraglide said:


> Does anyone here have any first or secondhand experience with the cleaner burnig tarm, greenwood , garn etc. gasification furnaces. I have been doing a lot of research on the subject and am looking at going from woodstove to outdoor wood heat. The current issues regarding OWB's and emissions is getting pretty close to home and these seem to be the next generation of boilers. If i am going to install one I would prefer to go with one of the cleaner burning models as I'm convinced that this current issue is going to be get larger and more widespread. I am curious how these measure up in regards to wood use/ whole house heating capabilities as compared to the conventional OWB's I understand the theory on the gasification units, but are there any units similar that don't require additonal air introduction (blower fan)
> I know one of the larger OWB manufacturers claims the there's is the cleanest burning, but there emissions charts compare themselves with other boilers and their baseline is what % GREATER their competitors emissions are as compared to theirs. Not ACTUAL particles per hour measurements. Leaves me somewhat skeptical.


 Just remember one thing, when the power goes out you'll be committed to making sure you keep a generator running, or no heat and worst of all a freeze up. I had a Woodmaster 4400 for 8 years then went to a Paxo 60 gasificatiion Boiler, 1600 gallons of thermal water strorage, did a shed for the storage and boiler, etc. Now I have a woodstove in my house and would never go back to what I had. Simple, power goes out I have heat, burn half the wood I use to, and no freeze up to worry about, or circulators going bad, water treatments, etc. Alot less stress. Plus I can even cook on the woodstove. Just my opinion. I love the simple life again. I use to burn between 10-14 cords with the furnaces I had. Now I burn 5 with my woodstove. Just food for thought.


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## rancher2 (Apr 26, 2011)

Charly said:


> Just remember one thing, when the power goes out you'll be committed to making sure you keep a generator running, or no heat and worst of all a freeze up. I had a Woodmaster 4400 for 8 years then went to a Paxo 60 gasificatiion Boiler, 1600 gallons of thermal water strorage, did a shed for the storage and boiler, etc. Now I have a woodstove in my house and would never go back to what I had. Simple, power goes out I have heat, burn half the wood I use to, and no freeze up to worry about, or circulators going bad, water treatments, etc. Alot less stress. Plus I can even cook on the woodstove. Just my opinion. I love the simple life again. I use to burn between 10-14 cords with the furnaces I had. Now I burn 5 with my woodstove. Just food for thought.


 I agree their is more things to take care of. But is nice to have the mess of the wood out in the shed. It is nice to have even heat in the rooms of the house. I had wood stoves in my other house for 20 years and I don't miss them. We live in a three story house now and it would be hard to heat with wood stoves. I don't miss worrying about the stove burning the house down.


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## ihookem (Nov 28, 2011)

Just came across this old thread. I have an EKO 25 gassifier. I kind of miss my old free standing stove. Nice and hot when next to it. I don't miss the bugs crawling around on the carpet or the bark neither. I only burn 4 cords of wood at the 43 * north Wisconsin. A gassifier is a bit more trouble but when they work there is nothing better. I don't have storage.


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