# How many are running square ground?



## imagineero (Nov 10, 2015)

I don't have much experience with square ground. I've bought some chain that come from the factory square by chance and it ran pretty good. i don't log any more but run a full time tree service with a dozen saws, about half ported. Usually end up running semi chisel because over the years I've found that properly tuned rakers (thanks BobL) run real close to full chisel in speed but cut 2-3x the wood between sharpenings and get almost twice as many sharpenings per chain. That's a lot more productivity.

The square I've ran is good for sure, but not brilliant. Everyone says square out of the box isn't that great and I'd believe it. I give semi chisel 2 licks per tooth with a round file and 5 strokes with a clean sharp file on rakers to wake it up and the difference is night and day. I hear guys make statements like "it's worth selling a saw to buy a square grinder ". I'm thinking boing of changing at least 3 or 4 saws over to square for use in the tree when climbing since it's clean cutting and time is critical to get ahead of cuts in some situations.

So how many are cutting with square? How's it working out for you?


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## nk14zp (Nov 10, 2015)

What is a half ported saw?


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 10, 2015)

i like square on my falling saws only. if its filed right its smooth and fast. off the reel its no good imo. needs angles changed and frankly is not sharp. be warned, it will not stay sharp as long as semi chisel round. i have found it stays sharp longer in our hardwood if i keep the side plate and top plate about even.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 10, 2015)

only run square now, even on the skidder saw, (only cause I'm to "busy" to file em).

Seems like chain life is fairly good, as long as you keep it out of the dirt, square don't like dirt. Once I got a grinder I think overall chain life has improved, since the grinder can just nip a bit and be done, where filing always seemed to take 3 or more strokes.

Raker height is key with square, and the right angles, I stopped messing with the gullets, just dress the wheel to take a little extra off the bottom so far so good.

Couldn't tell you what angles I'm running, for one I don't care, just adjust em tell they feel good, for two my ole grinder doesn't have much in the way of markings.


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## bnmc98 (Nov 10, 2015)

I use it. Wont use it on the landing though. That gets round.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 10, 2015)

.404 rslf is my favorite right now


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## Skeans (Nov 10, 2015)

I use it as well, and I agree with not running it on the landing and grinding the chain I carry 5 to 6 with me in the truck and one or two with me in the brush for the random rock that you'll find.

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## bnmc98 (Nov 10, 2015)

I have always hand filed it. I'm pretty fast at it, (and a file weighs a lot less for me than carrying extra chains) and it still cuts better than round for me.


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## Skeans (Nov 10, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> I have always hand filed it. I'm pretty fast at it, (and a file weighs a lot less for me than carrying extra chains) and it still cuts better than round for me.


I tie a crown royal bag onto my gas and oil jug rope.

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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 10, 2015)

yep, skidder/landing saws run full chisel round. every thing is skip. you western guys running a little more angle on the top plate than the side right? i found thats faster in pine but is grabby in hard stuff. also i run rakers at .020 and file out the gullets every other file and it is super smooth. i can get 1" chips in oak, 2" in pine. could get longer chips in pine with more angle but seems like it easier to stick with one angle all the time.


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## Skeans (Nov 10, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yep, skidder/landing saws run full chisel round. every thing is skip. you western guys running a little more angle on the top plate than the side right? i found thats faster in pine but is grabby in hard stuff. also i run rakers at .020 and file out the gullets every other file and it is super smooth. i can get 1" chips in oak, 2" in pine. could get longer chips in pine with more angle but seems like it easier to stick with one angle all the time.


Mike I can't tell you the angle I'm running, but the 28" bars and down I run full comp chains and my 32 to 42 I run semi skip chains then my 60 runs a full skip.

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## Rudedog (Nov 10, 2015)

Tree Sling'r square ground a bunch of my chains for me. They cut great and I go to great lengths to keep them out of the dirt.


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## OlympicYJ (Nov 11, 2015)

Old man taught me to file roun, wouldn't say I'm a master. Taught myself to file square; again definitely wouldn't say I'm a master at that lol. Seem to have gotten better. Logged for my uncle a few weeks ago and was mostly just bumpin limby cedar and no dirt. Stayed sharp all week. Probably a little dull but not bad.


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## CR888 (Nov 11, 2015)

I think for it to be an ongoing chain of choice, one MUST buy a Silvey/Simington grinder if to be used commercially. Running a couple of tanks through a saw once a week, you can get away with a file. Running 10+ saws that put food on the table......yal go crazy without a grinder! lt's the smothness of square I like as much as its speed.


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## bnmc98 (Nov 11, 2015)

takes me just a tad longer to touch up a chain with a file after 2-3 tanks, than to change one out.

Only thing I don't like about hand filing is the angle and the little files cramp my hands.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 11, 2015)

lol, wait till you gotta put on glasses


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## Red Amor (Nov 12, 2015)

dontcha hate that !!! always lookin for the friggen things and they are usually found on top me head :O)


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 12, 2015)

ha! red i got a dozen pair scattered about the house shop and trucks.......never have a pair handy lol.


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## Skeans (Nov 12, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ha! red i got a dozen pair scattered about the house shop and trucks.......never have a pair handy lol.


Just wait till you get a grinder Mike it's lots of fun matching the corner of the wheel with corner of the tooth.

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## Trx250r180 (Nov 12, 2015)

If you run square it is much easier to bring a couple extra chains to swap out if hit something ,i can actually get a few days out of a .404 chain ,my top plate is about 15-20 degrees instead of 30 though ,so it makes the outer corner stronger from rounding over .The .404 oils better than 3/8 also .


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## CR888 (Nov 13, 2015)

l don't run much full chisel, mainly semi and some square ground. l find square can be fairly good staying sharp, no chain really likes hitting dirt ar rocks but l don't find square any worse than full chisel....IME its usually better.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 13, 2015)

hey cr888, y'all got some hard wood there, curious about the angles you put on your square.


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## wadeclinton (Nov 14, 2015)

My brother and I run square ground chain exclusively. We mainly cut yellow pine and white pine for firewood. 10-15 cord per year. My brother has also been exclusively running square ground chain on his Helitack crews fire saws. That crew won't go back to round filing. There is another cache of saws he oversees. 6-10 saws that get used on various projects on the forest. He square grinds those saws but it's a little tougher to keep things going. Mainly due to poor cutters dirt biking the chains and hitting rocks. That severity of damage makes grinding corner to corner nearly impossible. IMO the Silvey or Simington grinder investment will pay off quickly. The wages saved in sharpening. 1 well trained employee can sharpen a whole fleet of saws in under an hour, instead of paying all operators to sharpen up. Also a good grinder operator can save out chain with the slightest of touch ups to bring the tooth back to optimal sharpness.


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## dooby (Nov 18, 2015)

Haven't been on here in a long time. The decomposed granite out here in Wyoming is hard on chains. we run full-skip round on the landing and I fall with square ground on a Stihl 461 hot saw. I have to change the chain every 2-3 tanks (the granite dust is in the bark). My eyes aren't able to keep up with the speed in changing chains out. When we finish out the chain we currently have on hand we will order a roll of .404 full skip. I carry 4-5 loops in saw pack and and those r in a canvas ammo bag from an army-navy store. One chain in each compartment. Grinder is a Simington for now. Riders are .275 for the falling saw.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 18, 2015)

I found a Silvey grinder for square last week at the shop. I've been thinking of trying it out when I gave time.

If shipping it wasn't so tough, probably would consider selling it. I also found a grinder for circular saw blades and hand saws.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 18, 2015)

dooby said:


> Haven't been on here in a long time. The decomposed granite out here in Wyoming is hard on chains. we run full-skip round on the landing and I fall with square ground on a Stihl 461 hot saw. I have to change the chain every 2-3 tanks (the granite dust is in the bark). My eyes aren't able to keep up with the speed in changing chains out. When we finish out the chain we currently have on hand we will order a roll of .404 full skip. I carry 4-5 loops in saw pack and and those r in a canvas ammo bag from an army-navy store. One chain in each compartment. Grinder is a Simington for now. Riders are .275 for the falling saw.


hey mang! how goes things?


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## dooby (Nov 18, 2015)

dooby said:


> Haven't been on here in a long time. The decomposed granite out here in Wyoming is hard on chains. we run full-skip round on the landing and I fall with square ground on a Stihl 461 hot saw. I have to change the chain every 2-3 tanks (the granite dust is in the bark). My eyes aren't able to keep up with the speed in changing chains out. When we finish out the chain we currently have on hand we will order a roll of .404 full skip. I carry 4-5 loops in saw pack and and those r in a canvas ammo bag from an army-navy store. One chain in each compartment. Grinder is a Simington for now. Riders are .275 for the falling saw.


Pretty good Slayer- logging some pretty nice ponderosa pine. We will be moving into some fir and spruce soon that is huge for east of the divide. Got all three of my kids With me. Only one left in school. Yarder is just about fixed. The hunting here sucks compared to back home. Friggin' outfitters have it all sown up here and state/nat. forest land is limited. Hope things are well with you.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 18, 2015)

same ol mang. still paddling lol. yarder pics! i'm fascinated with that.


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## dooby (Nov 18, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> same ol mang. still paddling lol. yarder pics! i'm fascinated with that.


will post them as soon as i get a cord for camera to get them on computer. do you or anyone else have any experience with the blue ceramic stones ?


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 18, 2015)

dooby said:


> will post them as soon as i get a cord for camera to get them on computer. do you or anyone else have any experience with the blue ceramic stones ?


My last 2 stones were blue ,seem to give a nice edge ,last longer than the gray ones i had ,does not seem to heat the cutter as bad as salmon wheel for me also .


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## dooby (Nov 18, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> My last 2 stones were blue ,seem to give a nice edge ,last longer than the gray ones i had ,does not seem to heat the cutter as bad as salmon wheel for me also .


We are currently using the white stones. 
The grinder is way different than the Zeiglemeyer I had twenty yrs. ago.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 18, 2015)

dooby said:


> We are currently using the white stones.
> The grinder is way different than the Zeiglemeyer I had twenty yrs. ago.


Have never seen one in person ,but was told that was one of the best grinders ever made .


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## dooby (Nov 18, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Have never seen one in person ,but was told that was one of the best grinders ever made .


they aren't nearly as portable as a Silvey or Simington. mine went to Alaska ahead of me w/a friend. he went died up there in a crash. Grinder may still be up there. That was 17-18 yrs. ago i think. If i ever run across a Pro Sharp or SDM-4 i hope i got some extra coin. Silvey is pulling their site on Dec. 15th. we like what we like i suppose  !


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 18, 2015)

dooby said:


> will post them as soon as i get a cord for camera to get them on computer. do you or anyone else have any experience with the blue ceramic stones ?


nah, i do it all with a double bevel. to stingy lol.


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## Skeans (Nov 18, 2015)

dooby said:


> We are currently using the white stones.
> The grinder is way different than the Zeiglemeyer I had twenty yrs. ago.


I run a salmon colored wheel on my pro sharp that's softer like a white but not as soft and not as hard as the madsens salmon wheel.

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## Woos31 (Nov 18, 2015)

I am also running square ground, full skip, full chisel 32" and not sure what angles. My uncle has a silvey grinder so when I need to I go and tickle em a bit and we back in bidness. However here in central oregon there A Lot of this s**t called western juniper that's a cedar so it collects all kinda dirt and rock in it as it grows and my square chains are having none of it lol. Then if the juniper is dead it's seriously like cutting concrete. So I have a 36" round filed chain full skip and full chisel I try to use but she's on her last leg and many times almost thrown said chain as far as I could and cutting a couple rocks in a good riggin fit because I couldn't get it to start another bite in my face cut to clean out the far corner in that hard ass juniper, just kept rollin over and "fixing" my rails realm good lol


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 19, 2015)

Bub.... do me a favor man.
Its all cool if you want to call a cypress a cedar but Chisel comes in
Round and square ONLY...NEVER FULL we also have semi chisel and round chain for cutter types
Cutter intervul types are skip / semi skip/ and full house or full comp
NEVER full skip


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## Woos31 (Nov 19, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> Bub.... do me a favor man.
> Its all cool if you want to call a cypress a cedar but Chisel comes in
> Round and square ONLY...NEVER FULL we also have semi chisel and round chain for cutter types
> Cutter intervul types are skip / semi skip/ and full house or full comp
> Never full skip


I was under the impression that cutter shapes were round, semi-chisel ( between round and chisel), and chisel (being square in shape not necessarily grind choice) which I saw in a manufacturer's diagram several times as full chisel, and same with full skip which I understand it means skip also. So I apologize for the confusion and ignorance.

Also the juniper in my area the studies said it's western red juniper of that puts it in cypress family I don't know that for sure but they're slow growing and an OG juniper they consider over about 30" will take 40 gallon of water per day if they can get to it and that 30" tree will be 400-500 years old and they are like a noxious weed in my area taking over everywhere. Hope that clears up my confusion a but, safe cuttin boss


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 19, 2015)

terminology differences gentleman


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 19, 2015)

Full double skip flat chisel works good for underpowered saws.


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## Woos31 (Nov 19, 2015)

Ya I was lookin for a compound comp with every other tooth reversed that way it cuts the same on top of log and bottom lol


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 19, 2015)

Gentlemen g'morn *smiles*
Brian thats probably so good it would be deserving of its own thread? It will give me a place to hang out for the day too and give people someone to hate...lol

I decided NOT to send that post last night and start a thread and keep it nuteral. I know lots of people don't
say SKIP on here these days Its
certainly not just 'Woos'.
Anyway I guess I just posted by accident in the end....lol

*Edits in*
Full chisel...(which we all know doesn't mean skip ) was the kicker.
My left eye lid started twitching...lol


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 19, 2015)

Well i run picco chain ,what do i know ?


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## Woos31 (Nov 19, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Full double skip flat chisel works good for underpowered saws.


I'd trade me best left handed hammer and a metric cresent wrench fir one a dem dar chains


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 19, 2015)

Woos31 said:


> I was under the impression that cutter shapes were round, semi-chisel ( between round and chisel), and chisel (being square in shape not necessarily grind choice) which I saw in a manufacturer's diagram several times as full chisel, and same with full skip which I understand it means skip also. So I apologize for the confusion and ignorance.
> 
> Also the juniper in my area the studies said it's western red juniper of that puts it in cypress family I don't know that for sure but they're slow growing and an OG juniper they consider over about 30" will take 40 gallon of water per day if they can get to it and that 30" tree will be 400-500 years old and they are like a noxious weed in my area taking over everywhere. Hope that clears up my confusion a but, safe cuttin boss


Your understanding is as good as
mine.OK stop at the magazine thing.

If I walked into a saw shop and said
"could I have a 24" full chisel"I will
get just that. Full, semi and skip
been the three cutter intervuls.
So I just ordered a ful house chisel
the grind is always implyed as round, it been the most common by far. See how simple that is....

This is going back a few years now from Seinfeld. Re: Soup Nazis.
Its always been funny but I get that now. If 'they are saying that in some rag,they are Dead wrong. Don't always believe what you read and this is why I won't touch this one as follows: Yellow 'cedar'/Cyprus (Cupressus nootkatensis) named from Nootka island/sound (there is a place that will get ya killed quick) **isn't even from the cedar family**but is related to the juniper.
it looks so similar to Western Red Cedar? Thats a weird one????
Yeah woos31 doesn't sound fun to cut that at all. Had a GF from Madras Oregon in '99 she took me Arrowhead hunting then out to Christmas valley in the desert with just juniper trees.
Even red cedar with (RC) its hard to bite into on a different angle cut. I don't waste my time trying if I come up short. You are generally creating a shallower undercut on the far side by bitting in close to your holding wood with (Sq C)
You now need to reset your dogs on the cutline somewhere down from the corner you started and the low part of your Humboldt and take another piece of the pie...it doesn't take long.

Thanks and safe cutting to all, friends.
Peace out


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## OlympicYJ (Nov 20, 2015)

Yellow-cedar, or cypress, used to be C_hamaecyparis nootkatensis _but changed to _Callitropsis nootkatensis_ just a couple of years ago. It had also been called _Xanthocyparis nootkatensis_. Cupressus isn't necessarily incorrect but I believe it predates Chamaecyparis in use. There is tons of specifics in scientific classification of species. 

As pointed out yellow-cedar and juniper are related in that they are part of the same family (Cupressaceae, cypress) but are of different genus. Family, Genus, Species.

Family: Cupressaceae; Genus: _Callitropsis; _Species: _nootkatensis _- yellow-cedar/cypress
Family: Cupressaceae; Genus: _Juniperus;_ Species: _occidentalis _ - western juniper. Which is most likely what Woos is referring to.
Family: Cupressaceae; Genus: _Thuja;_ Species: _plicata _- western redcedar.


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## wadeclinton (Nov 20, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I found a Silvey grinder for square last week at the shop. I've been thinking of trying it out when I gave time.
> 
> If shipping it wasn't so tough, probably would consider selling it. I also found a grinder for circular saw blades and hand saws.




I'm curious, what model Silvey is it?

What would the shipping to the lower 48 be? 

Just curious. It might open my Craigslist searches.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 20, 2015)

Yes, what Woos is talking about
Or at least, I know the Cypress conection but this is how it gets weird for me...we call it,yellow, Nootka or Alaska cedar BUT dosen't route back to cedar, Its wrongfully called cedar evidently.
*check out another site if you haven't seen that yet?
Seems its been changing and first studied in the 1700's as Hudson's Bay Company moved in to Nootka Sound for fur trade


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## Skeans (Nov 20, 2015)

wadeclinton said:


> I'm curious, what model Silvey is it?
> 
> What would the shipping to the lower 48 be?
> 
> Just curious. It might open my Craigslist searches.


You might look the Portland craigslist or do a Google search 

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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 20, 2015)

wadeclinton said:


> I'm curious, what model Silvey is it?
> 
> What would the shipping to the lower 48 be?
> 
> Just curious. It might open my Craigslist searches.



I was incorrect on the brand, just checked since I'm here at the shop. It's a Simington, I think a 450. It looks similar to this, but the motor is smaller and black. The model number isn't listed on it, but it looks quite similar to this:

http://*********************/showthread.php?9825-setting-up-a-Simington-450


Hmm.. I'm not sure why the site is being blanked out? It's www. masterblaster
It's on a tripod stand with a lamp.

Here is the newer version I think.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...-C-Square-Chisel-Chain-Grinder-with-Stand.axd


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## northmanlogging (Nov 20, 2015)

simington 450? small motor could be a 12v version the one I got sounds about identicle. Weird cast pipe stand super heavy for what it does?

Cost like $80. to ship from idaho? to here. worth every penny.


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## Skeans (Nov 20, 2015)

Another option is an inverter for like a fridge they will work with a grinder that's what I carry for my pro sharp if we too far from home and plug into the pickup

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## northmanlogging (Nov 20, 2015)

I just clip the battery charger on it... probably a fire hazard but so is about everything I do at home anyway, I would imagine that hooking it to a proper battery would give it some balls. It originally had a little converter taped to the side, it would spin the wheel, but you where pretty much working with momentum, the battery charger will still bog on a heavy cut, but keeps it moving.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 20, 2015)

you boys like a grinder that well over a file? i will assume a square grinder to square is light years ahead of what a round grinder is to round.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 20, 2015)

Round grinders are kind of like having an 880 with a 12" bar and trying to carve a bear out of an old stump, a little more then overkill...

But square filing is a pain in the shorts, so a square grinder makes things very nice and consistent.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 20, 2015)

Here you go. It has a 120v plug on it.

Found a Foley "Sharp All" and the other green deal is for sharpening hand saws. according to the manual that's sitting with it.



The other one is a regular chain grinder I think, I couldn't get close enough to see the brand. All this stuff was buried in a pile of other junk in the "back 40" parts room.

Dunno why the pics are all blurry, took them with my Samsung S5. Took some wading to get them, the old man's ankle biter dogs poop all over back there.


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## madhatte (Nov 20, 2015)

OlympicYJ said:


> Yellow-cedar, or cypress, used to be C_hamaecyparis nootkatensis _but changed to _Callitropsis nootkatensis_ just a couple of years ago.



I'll never get used to all the name changes. The phyologenetics guys might be_ right_, but that doesn't make them _useful_. It's not like I'm gonna carry a gene sequencer out in the field to be able to tell a Douglas-Fir from a Hemlock.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 20, 2015)

umhhh thats ones 700 mbh, that one 550, that ones 1100 fer peelers, and 325 for saw logs... them ugly ones in the wet bit thems cotton timber on only worth 210-280...


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## woodfarmer (Nov 21, 2015)

i just cant find anyone around here that knows how to sharpen square?


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## 1270d (Nov 21, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Here you go. It has a 120v plug on it.
> 
> Found a Foley "Sharp All" and the other green deal is for sharpening hand saws. according to the manual that's sitting with it.View attachment 462829
> View attachment 462830
> ...



That shop looks like somewhere I wouldn't mind wandering around for a bit


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## dooby (Nov 22, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> you boys like a grinder that well over a file? i will assume a square grinder to square is light years ahead of what a round grinder is to round.


You got that right Slayer. or more like nun-chucks vs. .41 mag. at 35 feet.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

woodfarmer said:


> i just cant find anyone around here that knows how to sharpen square?


nope, here either, they don't know what is is. another logger stopped by a while back and i happened to be fileing. he said; wth are you doing to that chain? lol.
these guys here were very helpful with instructions......some where there is a thread.


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## mdavlee (Nov 22, 2015)

Square filing is witchcraft and voodoo


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## dooby (Nov 22, 2015)

single cut file(round)pushed into the tooth can produce a crazy edge also.


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## mdavlee (Nov 22, 2015)




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## Trx250r180 (Nov 22, 2015)

Nice work Mike


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## Frank Savage (Nov 22, 2015)

Not a race chain, not a show queen because of the filings around and lil tiny bit of chrome pull on the offside of the gullet, the grind is a bit altered off the most common books, but wait-then it seems lika pretty f***ng damn good workchain...
mdavlee, you should be busted for promotion of hardcore pornography
well, gonna put my droolbib on...


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## mdavlee (Nov 22, 2015)

That is a work chain. It cut pretty good if I remember right.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 22, 2015)

So on the subject of chain...

Been thinking on picking up an old round grinder and seeing how it does at hitting the riders?

Any one ever try this, set the angle to 0 deg dress the wheel almost flat with a slight forward angle, and go to town, hit both sides at once?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 22, 2015)

For being a chain with what looks like 100% depth guages, how come the bottom of the straps are so torn up?


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## mdavlee (Nov 22, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> For being a chain with what looks like 100% depth guages, how come the bottom of the straps are so torn up?


Chain was about 1/3 used up. I reshape the rakers for smoothness. They look stock. I don't need as low of rakers to get a good bite in the wood with the angles I use.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

hand fileing square, you will almost always hit the straps.

Mike i am running high rakers, .020. i get long chips and great speed if i filed the cutter right.


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## HuskStihl (Nov 22, 2015)

So I thought there was chisel chain (round and square) and round semi-chisel, but no such thing as "full chisel"

I am guilty of calling skip chain "full skip".

I erroneously called Juniper ERC for years.
Oh well. I've run SuperMike square, and can attest to its smoothness and "big chip make-y-ness"


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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> So on the subject of chain...
> 
> Been thinking on picking up an old round grinder and seeing how it does at hitting the riders?
> 
> Any one ever try this, set the angle to 0 deg dress the wheel almost flat with a slight forward angle, and go to town, hit both sides at once?


Matt I run an oregon 510 for rakers and if you need I ran you though the set up. Also I can do 3/4" harvester chain with it.

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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 22, 2015)

Full skip would be not incorrect. There is fill complement, semi skip and full skip chain available.


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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> So I thought there was chisel chain (round and square) and round semi-chisel, but no such thing as "full chisel"
> 
> I am guilty of calling skip chain "full skip".
> 
> ...


Full chisel if you walk into a shop here is square chisel.

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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

lol, i like to take one of you western boys into a "saw shop" around here just to see the stupid look on their face.


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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, i like to take one of you western boys into a "saw shop" around here just to see the stupid look on their face.


The stupid look on their face or to watch us get pissed off at the counter guy when we ask for a "long" 105 driver chain?

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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I've done a few loops for 40"+ in bars. I said something to the effect that he must have found some big trees. He goes "Nope, I just don't like bending over to cut my firewood" [emoji23]


I've got some of the long bars like that and they make my back hurt but when they are needed I'll pull them out.

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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

Skeans said:


> The stupid look on their face or to watch us get pissed off at the counter guy when we ask for a "long" 105 driver chain?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


both! but if they have it it will be round full comp.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 22, 2015)

Skeans said:


> The stupid look on their face or to watch us get pissed off at the counter guy when we ask for a "long" 105 driver chain?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



I'm a gonna need 3 loops of 147 link full skip chisel, a 3/4 wrap handle, some 14" wedges, and a gyppo jug, and you gotta bull prick for a Chyrsti back there by any chance?


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## northmanlogging (Nov 22, 2015)

Oh and a 10" skookum block


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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> I'm a gonna need 3 loops of 147 link full skip chisel, a 3/4 wrap handle, some 14" wedges, and a gyppo jug, and you gotta bull prick for a Chyrsti back there by any chance?


Isn't it always fun messing with a new guy from behind the counter?

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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 22, 2015)

Make my back hurt as well. We have a few "shop saws" that run 28" bars and I don't really care for that much bar. I'm normally using a saw to limb whatever got missed by the stroke delimber or bucking the tree length in ~20ish ft lengths so it's alot of bar for no real reason.




Skeans said:


> I've got some of the long bars like that and they make my back hurt but when they are needed I'll pull them out.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Make my back hurt as well. We have a few "shop saws" that run 28" bars and I don't really care for that much bar. I'm normally using a saw to limb whatever got missed by the stroke delimber or bucking the tree length in ~20ish ft lengths so it's alot of bar for no real reason.


28" bar is too much bending over limbing but we walk down the trees and limb here.

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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 22, 2015)

I'd much rather have customers like that then the...

"I need a "blade" for my saw"

Blade? You mean a chain?

"Yeah... whatever"

Sure... what length, guage and pitch?

"Ummm..... ?????"

Well, do you know the model saw?

"Ummmm..... it's orange?."





northmanlogging said:


> I'm a gonna need 3 loops of 147 link full skip chisel, a 3/4 wrap handle, some 14" wedges, and a gyppo jug, and you gotta bull prick for a Chyrsti back there by any chance?


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## northmanlogging (Nov 22, 2015)

I think I gave the last 28" bar I had away... shortest falling saw I use is 32", keep a 20" in the skidder fer bumping nots, and another 20" for my own firewood duty (modded 066 w 8 pin makes 3 cords in a little under 2 tanks of gas)


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

i still have a saw with a 28 for pecker poles if i have to cut those. i do like a 32 as an all around bar.


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## Skeans (Nov 22, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> I think I gave the last 28" bar I had away... shortest falling saw I use is 32", keep a 20" in the skidder fer bumping nots, and another 20" for my own firewood duty (modded 066 w 8 pin makes 3 cords in a little under 2 tanks of gas)


I have one 20" bar I keep around for slashing alder and salmon berry in the reprod fir, and a 20 on the 555 for the landing bumping knots.

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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm used to a saw that is pretty well balanced so a longer bar is screwy for me, and hard on my back. I broke my back 5 years ago and that destroyed 3 disks so I have to be careful.
Nearly all the logging we do is mechanized so hardly ever drop trees by hand. Not that I can't, but the feller buncher has a nice seat, radio and heat.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

now it seems to me, any less than 32 don't balance right. and dam sure don't carry right.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 22, 2015)

I find that odd?

short bars mean lots of bending over, and knee work. Granted a long bar is kind of heavy and awkward, but at least I don't have to bend over double at the waist to bump a knot.

Too each their own though.


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## Dieselshawn (Nov 22, 2015)

Hello, I would like to use square ground as well. 

I've made one 3 years ago out of a .325 chain that was nearly worn out. It does cut much better but I have no file to use to sharpen again.

I have a Oregon wheel that I dressed to the angle I needed to do the chain and it works well. Just had to touch up the corner with a tiny bastard file to get it sharp.

I'm thinking the oregon wheel I have is not fine enough to make a nice corner as it was a Round ground wheel to begin with and converted to square shape with a stone. 

What wheel works best for a nice grind?

I don't have a grinder but can look for one. (I used a buddy's grinder before)

I have tried to get square chain from Stihl but it seems that they're discontinuing square chains due to lack of popularity.

The dealer also doesn't have a clue what file to order for square filing.

They got me several files that I've never seen before in my life. lol


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## northmanlogging (Nov 23, 2015)

Check out baileys, a sponser here, they should have the file you need, one is trapazodial, the other is sort of an uneven hex shape, 3 long and 3 short sides. Go for the Pferd brand if you can, though the Oregon file isn't terrible.

As far as grinders, if you want to spend the cash Simington is still making them, but Silvey is out of business, you can still find Silveys used, but they are not cheap, neither are the simingtons...


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## Skeans (Nov 23, 2015)

Since you are up north you might be ahead to call Walkers.

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## Westboastfaller (Nov 23, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> So I thought there was chisel chain (round and square) and round semi-chisel, but no such thing as "full chisel"
> 
> I am guilty of calling skip chain "full skip".
> 
> ...


Lol
You are right, full chisel is slang for "Full house, chisel or Full Comp Chisel as 'full' ONLY refers to the cuters intervuls.
So its cool for me to say full chisel
as I order a chain but I should not be writing that especially now not being the time as it further confuses the matter.. My Bad

K..I don't like picking on me, I thought I told you guys a was a hippocrate
Ok.. let do some friendly critiquing

QUOTE
"I am also running square ground, full skip, full chisel 32"

This one is a clasic...lol there is no such thing as full chisel in this sense.
All you need to say is;
32" square skip
Agreed? The word ground is redundant & square implys chisel
Also pretty sure 32" implys skip most everywhere.
Ok now were at: 32"sq
There you go with all those words I saved; when he gives me the bill
I can say "you should be wearing a mask EH!"..lol

Collectivlely we will get it.
Not to pick on anyone, its contagious, I start writing things I don't mean, so ..its..crazy
Remember " there is no i in Team
but there is two in IDIOT

"Chain Nazi"
NO CHAIN FOR YOU!


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 23, 2015)

Rslfk .404 96 dl


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 23, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Full skip would be not incorrect. There is fill complement, semi skip and full skip chain available.



Well I guess if thats what the kids in marketing are calling it these days. If they are going to change the name after all theses years then why don't they just call it; this, that and the other $hit? It would make more sense and more appealing to loggers than adding full to a name of 1 of 3 that already has the word full as a prefix.

I'm old school and I don't eccept jr
Changing the name. Skip & full comp have been around way before semi-skip, So its here so lets change the name of skip to "full skip" well that makes about as much sense as wiping before you poop.

Question: what do you do for a livin' Boaster? Well in a faller
You mean a Feller, to say you are a Faller is to say you fall down...didn't you get the memo from 1997? "As a matter of fact I did
Now get the puck out of here before I beat the bark off ya with my axe.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 23, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Chain was about 1/3 used up. I reshape the rakers for smoothness. They look stock. I don't need as low of rakers to get a good bite in the wood with the angles I use.



What VF is saying is the botton of chassis appears mushroomed, like remenisance of hook and low rakers. I think its just a wicked witch craft pic. The shavings look magnified so its probably not that bad,chain may have got tight at one point?


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## Samlock (Nov 23, 2015)

I don't know what they've been up to in the Cheese Country, but the new full chisel Swiss made chains are cutting beautifully. Plus no stretch whatsoever.


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## Frank Savage (Nov 23, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Chain was about 1/3 used up. I reshape the rakers for smoothness. They look stock. I don't need as low of rakers to get a good bite in the wood with the angles I use.



I envy you wood where you can use such angles and high rakers. Very seldom I run into alike. Mostly hard, or gritty, or both so such a chain would be dull about 2" into the first cut. And when I can use the "high raker, low angle, long noodle" formula, the saw bogs itself with the regular side cover. I´m even thinking about making my own, since I may be in some clean wood finaly this winter...


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 23, 2015)

dooby said:


> single cut file(round)pushed into the tooth can produce a crazy edge also.


 are you missing the point?


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## dooby (Nov 23, 2015)

The term ra


Westboastfaller said:


> are you missing the point?


Not after i learned to wear cut resistant gloves. Hows this for OL' SKOOL----rakers are the tooth on a cross-cut saw(misery whip)that pulled the the chips or shaving out of the way for the next tooth series for or aft. what we actually have on saw chain is a rider If this was brought up earlier i apologize in advance.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 23, 2015)

terminology can be cornfusing


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 23, 2015)

Lol..Well you got the pun anyways.
Rides? I believe i've heard of it. Too Old school, can you bring it back to last quarter of the 20th Century.
It is a better name as it rides on wood & controles movement.
It was probably a confusion thing in the end as half the people would confuse the drives as rides.
I got a feeling about this one..don't ask me how..I just do. Ha Ha
History lessons are always welcome.

Thnx


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## Woos31 (Nov 23, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> View attachment 463298


That there should cut like a cheetah on cocaine


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## OlympicYJ (Nov 23, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I'm used to a saw that is pretty well balanced so a longer bar is screwy for me, and hard on my back. I broke my back 5 years ago and that destroyed 3 disks so I have to be careful.
> Nearly all the logging we do is mechanized so hardly ever drop trees by hand. Not that I can't, but the feller buncher has a nice seat, radio and heat.



I've seen pictures years ago on Alaska4x4 network of some forwarders. I knew there was some logging around Palmer and such but never knew if it was for a local mill or what. If you don't mind me asking what are you guys cutting species wise and what kind of market?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 23, 2015)

Birch, spruce and poplar. (cottonwood and aspen)

Spruce and poplar is used for lumber. It's all small mills though, mostly custom sized stuff. I don't deal with lumber, my focus is just on firewood.



OlympicYJ said:


> I've seen pictures years ago on Alaska4x4 network of some forwarders. I knew there was some logging around Palmer and such but never knew if it was for a local mill or what. If you don't mind me asking what are you guys cutting species wise and what kind of market?


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## AKDoug (Nov 24, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I found a Silvey grinder for square last week at the shop. I've been thinking of trying it out when I gave time.
> 
> If shipping it wasn't so tough, probably would consider selling it. I also found a grinder for circular saw blades and hand saws.


 I'd buy it, and I'm just up the road.


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## OlympicYJ (Nov 25, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Birch, spruce and poplar. (cottonwood and aspen)
> 
> Spruce and poplar is used for lumber. It's all small mills though, mostly custom sized stuff. I don't deal with lumber, my focus is just on firewood.



Small mills like woodmizers and a few of those have planers or smaller fixed sawmills?

When you say cottonwod and aspen are you lumping the two together? They are both part of the same family (_Salicaceae_) while Birch is part of the _Betulaceae_ family. Cottonwood and poplar are just common names as cottonwood and poplar share the same genus _Populus _but are different species.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 25, 2015)

Yes, because they have similar wood and are of the same value for firewood or lumber. Kind of like 2x4s are "SPF", spruce, pine, fur".

Some of the sawmills just do rough cut, some do some finish work. At the shop I'm at we have a small planer as well as a bigger planer/moulder, Nyle kiln, etc. Don't do much finish work though, 99% of what is sold is rough cut.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 25, 2015)

I'll talk to Russ and Carl and see what they are wanting to get for it.



AKDoug said:


> I'd buy it, and I'm just up the road.


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## AKDoug (Nov 25, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I'll talk to Russ and Carl and see what they are wanting to get for it.


Let me know. I am for sure interested.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 27, 2015)

AKDoug said:


> Let me know. I am for sure interested.



Probably will be Monday, I've been on my own at the shop since Wednesday, family vacations/get togethers and what not.


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## Quartz Path (Dec 1, 2015)

I use full chisel on my husky and still cuts nice and fast when sharp but like the others said hit the dirt or rock it and it needs a grinder to get it back I get about 4 tanks on my 880 with the .404 before I need to use a file sometimes I can cut for days before I notice that I am starting to lean on my saw again.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 1, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Yes, because they have similar wood and are of the same value for firewood or lumber. Kind of like 2x4s are "SPF", spruce, pine, fur".
> 
> Some of the sawmills just do rough cut, some do some finish work. At the shop I'm at we have a small planer as well as a bigger planer/moulder, Nyle kiln, etc. Don't do much finish work though, 99% of what is sold is rough cut.



Gotcha thanks for the info.


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