# Is this a good place for a rant?



## twoclones (Jun 18, 2012)

*Penny Pinching A-holes! *

I went and bid a fireplace mantle for a customer who previously bought a $100 carving piece from me. The mantle is for a new house they are building. The place is HUGE and the family room, where the fireplace is located, has a 16' high ceiling. It's up on a hill top with a great view of the valley. Looks like a big money place... 

I gave them a price for a piece of kiln dried black walnut, 7' x 14" x 8" with polished finish top, adze hewn front & bottom with matching corbels. Gave them a good price too! 

Today the "customer" phoned to ask if I will do the job for 30% LESS than my bid. NO! HECK NO! 

*What the hell gets into people? I bet this panty-waist would cry before he'd swing an adze in the direction of his own toes! *


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## lloyd786 (Jul 9, 2012)

It's a game they thrive on playing. That's why he's a businessman and sounds like a good one. Some people live their whole life getting people to the bottom so they can live higher up at the top. Their mindset is not like ours where we think "this is a good deal for both of us" they think "how low can i get him to go ?" Or if it's him selling it's "How much can i get out of him ?"

Different game. You're in the wood game, he's in the money game.


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## Freehand (Jul 9, 2012)

I've had big money clients pull the same game on me more than once. I can usually spot the chiseler set early on and I'll bump my price accordingly. If I think the job's worth $1000 I'll throw a $1500 bid at them, then let them chisel to $1200. They think they get a deal and I get paid.

An unfortunate, but necessary way to do business with some………….


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## Hedgerow (Jul 10, 2012)

Awe hell... You don't have to be rich to be a chiseler... I've seen folks at garage sales do the same thing... I call it the Ozark haggling game... Like the slabber just said... If ya need a hundred, ask 150... Leave yourself some wiggle room, cause if ya do nice work, your time is worth money... Not doin anyone any favors going out of business...


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## lloyd786 (Jul 10, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> Awe hell... You don't have to be rich to be a chiseler... I've seen folks at garage sales do the same thing... I call it the Ozark haggling game... Like the slabber just said... If ya need a hundred, ask 150... Leave yourself some wiggle room, cause if ya do nice work, your time is worth money... Not doin anyone any favors going out of business...



Business 101, I should take a class from you.


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## DavdH (Jul 10, 2012)

Over-bid then under run the job, refund makes em love you every time.


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## swift4me (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm not suggesting you do this, but... one time on a Christmas tree lot the day before Christmas, I saw a guy pull up in a huge black Mercedes. He was very well dressed and his family stayed in the car. He walked around and found the biggest noble fir left on the lot. The owner of the lot asked him if he would like to buy the tree and the guy offered him half the price. No doubt tired of guys like these, and it being Christmas eve, the lot owner agreed and took the cash, then walked back to the tent, grabbed his chainsaw and then cut the tree in half. Then he asked the now irate rich guy, "which half do you want"?

It was priceless to witness.

Pete


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## discounthunter (Jul 22, 2012)

for some its a game.for some its lack of knowledge. i love it when someone wants a one-off game call/turkey call for big box store prices,lol.


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## Healeydays (Nov 15, 2012)

DavdH said:


> Over-bid then under run the job, refund makes em love you every time.



I know I'm late to the game on this one, but here are my 2 cents. I am in the antique and repurposing business and unfortunately it's part of the business. I always have a couple prices on any piece I have. I have a sell to another dealer minimum I can take and a price I know someone wants to haggle from. If someone thinks I'm giving them a deal, they seem to come back. If someone hears the price, and just pays it, then better for me and if the next piece doesn't get me the total price I wanted, so be it, as at the end of the day I don't measure profit by one sale, I measure it by all the sales in total...


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## djones (Nov 15, 2012)

I once had to bump up the price of a job, 5 fold, to a customer because I was told he would feel he was being ripped off if it wasn't high enough to fit into his down state mindset. Those kind of jobs I like.


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## bassett (Nov 28, 2012)

twoclones said:


> *Penny Pinching A-holes! *
> 
> Today the "customer" phoned to ask if I will do the job for 30% LESS than my bid. NO! HECK NO!
> 
> *What the hell gets into people? I bet this panty-waist would cry before he'd swing an adze in the direction of his own toes! *



I've heard this tactic before. There's a fair price for a job -- The average contractors approach -- and there are clients who'll barter over every cost. In the end it just breeds contempt and distrust.


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## twoclones (Nov 29, 2012)

In the end Karma won out. I passed their info on to a friend who offered the 'customer' a raw log for nearly the same price as I asked for a finished mantle.


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## BubbaG (Dec 9, 2012)

What did you quote?


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## twoclones (Dec 9, 2012)

BubbaG said:


> What did you quote?



I think it was $1,200 delivered.


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## IrishGuy (Jun 29, 2013)

twoclones said:


> *Penny Pinching A-holes! *
> 
> I went and bid a fireplace mantle for a customer who previously bought a $100 carving piece from me. The mantle is for a new house they are building. The place is HUGE and the family room, where the fireplace is located, has a 16' high ceiling. It's up on a hill top with a great view of the valley. Looks like a big money place...
> 
> ...



Everyone always does that to me whether it be for a tree job or a piece. I will sometimes add 15% to haggle with for new customers and then take it off at the end. It either protects me or makes me look good if people choose not to dispute. Just my .02


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 6, 2013)

I cut a big oak for a guy last summer. One half had broken off and the other half was sticking 30' straight out over his garage. He said none of the local tree services would touch it and seemed to be one of the types mentioned here. He said I could have all the wood if I took it down and thought he would be doing me a favor. He said I could just build him a new garage if I hit it! I knew it was going to be an easy tree. It was big, it was well over 30 inches, and I wanted the wood, so I did it for free. I jacked the tree sideways into an empty lot and cut it up. The guy offered to help load it and then asked how much I wanted on the truck. I told him I wanted it full.

We piled the truck full and I told him I would be back for the rest. I went home and unloaded and went back to get rest of the wood. I pulled in and he was not in sight and the wood was GONE! I walked back behind the garage and there it was piled up with a tarp over half of it. I got out and started loading my truck. The guy came out and asked what I was doing and I told him I was getting the rest of my wood. He looked confused and said something about me leaving it so it was his. I loaded it all in the truck and drove away.:hmm3grin2orange:

Some folks don't learn. He even tried to sell me a $50 scooter for $100!:angry2:


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## twoclones (Jul 7, 2013)

*They never stop coming.*

*We should all carry paint ball guns for marking unreasonable people... *

This week a guy came with a photo of a log round used like a pedestal for a bathroom sink. I assured him I cold make that for him and took him on a tour of my log supply. While pointing out appropriate logs, I also assured him that This pile of logs would be inappropriate because they hadn't dried for very long and the wood [pine] cracks badly in our lack of humidity [desert]. 

It didn't take him very long to insist on using a log from the back of the pine pile because it had a knot like the log sink in his photo. Absolutely worst decision he could have made! But the way he talked about 'things', I'm fairly certain his wife is bullying him into this project and all he cares about is matching the photo and pleasing her in the short term. It's my reputation which will suffer when the pedestal cracks... 

Experience urged me to add an "unreasonable customer fee" so I doubled what I was thinking I should charge and said that was without sealing. Added $50 more for sealing and steadfastly refused when he tried to talk me down. 

Now he want's it in 5 days. I guess the wood will cure in his bathroom...


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 7, 2013)

Cut a relief slot straight down the back of it so it won't crack so bad on the front. Cut all the way to the core and all the way down. Tell him its there so the wood can expand and contract with the humidity in his bathroom.


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## twoclones (Jul 8, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> Cut a relief slot straight down the back of it so it won't crack so bad on the front. Cut all the way to the core and all the way down. Tell him its there so the wood can expand and contract with the humidity in his bathroom.



No need. I decided to hollow it out. You could drop a soccer ball through it now


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 8, 2013)

A soccer ball, eh? Good. That should do it.


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## fields_mj (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm not a buisness man by any means. Heck, I'm not a wood carver either for that matter. I'm an Engineer, and I follow some pretty simple logic. I don't have any problems telling someone "NO." It doesn't mean that I'm mad at them, or that they have offended me. They just asked me a question and the answer happend to be no. Can you get the job done; Will I do a job for 30% less; Can the job be done in 2 days? All of these questions have a very specific answer, and depending on what the job is the answer may be yes, or may be no. Some people take my answer for what it is. It's just an answer to the question that was asked. Some people get a look on their face like I just shot their favorite cat, and thinking of that makes me smile  Seriously though, there are all kinds of people in the world, and if you're going to deal with the general public, some thick skin would be a good investement. Most folks can't do what you guys do, and have no idea what kind of time and money it takes to get as good as you are, or what it actually takes to do the jobs they are asking you to do. They don't know what the going price is for the lumber, nore do they realize how many manhours it takes to do the work, or what kind of equipment (or the cost of that equipment) it takes to do the work. At best, they might know a guy who does this stuff as a hobby and they figure if he can do it, then it must not take that much. In our current world of fast food and walmart's, it's hard to find much appreciation for a job well done. 

I'm not trying to tell you to lighten up. I'm simply suggesting a different perspective so that someone else's ignorance doesn't ruin YOUR day so much. Their ignorance just isn't worth it. 

That's my 2 bits anyway,
Mark


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## twoclones (Sep 3, 2013)

*I agree*



fields_mj said:


> I'm simply suggesting a different perspective so that someone else's ignorance doesn't ruin YOUR day so much. Their ignorance just isn't worth it.



You've offered good advice but there is a reason I'm happy working alone at the back of the property. Mostly because there is a limit to how many times I can shoo a mosquito away before I want to smack it. 

When a customer pushes me hard enough, I do get some enjoyment from saying things like _"This isn't Wal-mart."_ or _"You should make one that way."_ My real favorite is, _"I'll do it for that price if you bring a cured log to my carving area." _


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## fields_mj (Sep 3, 2013)

I can relate to that very much, and I tend to do the same thing. I'll argue my point, but at the end of the day if "they" tell me to do it a certain way, I will do it EXACTLY they way "they" tell me to. The results NEVER fail to put a smile on my face.


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