# please explain this cut



## Plasmech (Jan 27, 2009)

In this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17bY2uorrXg&feature=related

At the end he makes a cut that basically removes the bark from a branch under pressure. What is he doing here and why? Thanks!


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## forestryworks (Jan 27, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> In this video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17bY2uorrXg&feature=related
> 
> At the end he makes a cut that basically removes the bark from a branch under pressure. What is he doing here and why? Thanks!



it's basically a "kerf face" type deal. you can just backcut it (carefully) or do the cuts used to unload a springpole.

but mostly, learn to bore cut safely and learn to ream your cuts.


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## pdqdl (Jan 28, 2009)

Much like your signature, he is Armed with just enough information to be dangerous...to himself. 

He looks like a woodsman wanna-be throughout the video, although I have seen much worse. I pretty much thought that all his cuts were pointless and done the hard way, especially the silly one you referred to.


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## CRN Tree (Jan 28, 2009)

He's really not looking to be very production with all those cuts. He's really making things much hard then they are.


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## buzz sawyer (Jan 28, 2009)

I think he accomplished exactly what he set out to do - demonstrate some basic safe cutting techiniques. Maybe not high production, but safe for a homeowner who shouldn't be in a hurry. In the last cut, he was creating a hinge to control the direction as he released the pressure in the branch. Maybe overkill for the size of the branch but a safe cut and it could be used on larger ones.


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## pdqdl (Jan 29, 2009)

No. That was a terrible technique. 

The wide angle predisposes the cut to pinching and gives no advantage for safety, faster production, or ease of use. If he was promoting safety, he would have indicated the need to cut deeper on the compression side to avoid splitting. His hinge is non-existant, he only scraped off the bark and cambium. It is situations exactly like the one shown that are most likely to cause an injury from the "barber-chair" effect. The fact that the branch that he cut really didn't have any side-loading probably helped him finish the cut without problems.

No mention of where to stand to avoid injury. No mention of removing wood closer to the area where it was hung up.

His first demonstrated technique for cutting wood was just dumb. Why cut a notch in the compression side of horizontal wood? Top cut to short of pinching depth, then finish from the bottom up. In the video, the idiot didn't even finish the cut. Why? ...'cause he would have pinched the bar. If it had been a simple top cut, the wood would have pinched at the top, and held the gap open at the bottom. 

The second technique he showed was just stupid. He does not explain what he is trying to accomplish with the offset cut, nor does he give any real advice on how to use that technique. He just cuts an offset, and then doesn't finish the cut!

He is a dumb cutter, and he needs to watch some videos of folks that really know how to do the work. His specialty is making videos, not running a chainsaw.


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 29, 2009)

He was one of those diversification farmers. Maybe he should open a craft shop instead!


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## RedlineIt (Jan 29, 2009)

Plasmech,

As mentioned, he's trying to demonstrate a style of a relief cut on the compression side of a branch that is theoretically under tension, that is to say, imagine that when that tree fell, the skinny end of the branch got pushed up hard against the trunk of another tree out of camera view. (Unfortunately, his chosen example is a poor one, it's not tensioned that badly, but imagine that it is.)

If you were to cut the branch in one go from the tension side, all that pressure is released in an uncontrolled fashion and the butt end of the branch will jump violently as the spring is released, possibly hitting you where you would prefer not to be hit. So you want to release some of that springs potential. Dig it so far? Knew you would.

Now, if you cut straight in from the compression side, your saw might get pinched as the kerf of the cut closes, often quickly and to your great embarrassment. So what our farmer is trying to show is paring away at the compression side bit by bit, but he hardly does enough to really call that a relief cut.

Another critique I have of this really quite poor demonstration video, and one that I think is important for a new saw operator such as yourself Plasmech: watch really carefully at the end of his relief cut, it's hard to see, but just as he cuts in past that little twig, he flicks the saw sideways to cut free the tiny wedge he's made. This is a recipe for derailing the chain off the bar, or "throwing the chain".

Granted, he was properly using the tip of the bar to do this, and granted, it's a valid technique in the portfolio of chainsaw carving artists. 

But for new operators like Plasmech, let's get back to some basic high school physics: Though your chain seems to run in a channel on the bar, at speed the rotating mass of the chain is trying to describe a circle, limited to an ellipse by two points, the drive sprocket and the bar tip. Any application of sufficient sideways force between these points attempts to derail the chain.

Hope this helps.


RedlineIt


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## buzz sawyer (Jan 29, 2009)

Interesting responses. I would be interested in seeing a video demonstrating the proper techniques you all describe.


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## Brian VT (Jan 29, 2009)

PDQ and RED.
Great posts, imo. Newbies like me really appreciate real-world advice.
Thanks. I hope to read more like that.
Good OP question too. I had watched that vid. a few times and assumed it was good advice. He sure looks like he knows more than me. He's on the Tube !


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## Plasmech (Jan 29, 2009)

I think his intentions were 100% good but he, or the editor, skipped too much important information. It was like he touched the surface of a few things but never really showed new guys like me *exactly* why he was doing what/when/where. 

I also got the impression that he's more of a "Safety Boss" type guy as opposed to someone who's been there/done that. Had that classic calm arrogance about him too, seen that before LOL.

But probably a good guy.






RedlineIt said:


> Plasmech,
> 
> As mentioned, he's trying to demonstrate a style of a relief cut on the compression side of a branch that is theoretically under tension, that is to say, imagine that when that tree fell, the skinny end of the branch got pushed up hard against the trunk of another tree out of camera view. (Unfortunately, his chosen example is a poor one, it's not tensioned that badly, but imagine that it is.)
> 
> ...


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## BC_Logger (Jan 30, 2009)

the accuracy of the video is 99 % he set out explain the cutting techniques set by Tim Ard at GOL , here's the page from GOL with Tims tips and clearly shows the methods described in the video

http://www.forestapps.com/tips/tips.htm 

scroll down to Felling and bucking


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## BC_Logger (Jan 30, 2009)

as stated before these are no way production techniques but speed comes with experience. Yes there are better techniques than what has been shown

home owner / green horn = slow 

pro = fast

pro wanna be = emergency room


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## pdqdl (Jan 30, 2009)

*I guess my standards are too high*

I didn't see any useful information on tim's site, either. It looks like stuff written quickly in an effort have a useful website to support sales elsewhere. The information presented is rather attenuated; I think you would need to know everything about that type of work to understand what he is saying. 

He doesn't explain terminology too well, and uses trade jargon as though a newbie should know all about it.

My advice: get a whole book that explains it all, or take a course with some hands-on. Or read countless hundreds of "how-to" webpages, Youtubes, etc, learn some new ideas, and choose what you think is useful, throw out what ain't.


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## geofore (Jan 31, 2009)

BC_Logger said:


> as stated before these are no way production techniques but speed comes with experience. Yes there are better techniques than what has been shown
> 
> home owner / green horn = slow
> 
> ...



Knowing which one you are = priceless


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 31, 2009)

Looks as though all his PPE was just unwrapped/unboxed. I'd be more apt to pay attention if it looked like he spent some time in the woods.


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## forestryworks (Jan 31, 2009)

bowtechmadman said:


> Looks as though all his PPE was just unwrapped/unboxed. I'd be more apt to pay attention if it looked like he spent some time in the woods.



he looks all sci-fi


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 31, 2009)

bowtechmadman said:


> Looks as though all his PPE was just unwrapped/unboxed. I'd be more apt to pay attention if it looked like he spent some time in the woods.



If you get a chance to see him talk, take it. He knows what he is talking about.


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## Bigbrass1's (Jan 31, 2009)

He is the self proclaimed master sawer. Husky's main spokesman at shows. He does know exactly what he is talking about. Problem with that is with any over kill of safty, time is lossed. But he dose explain the most safe way to cut it up.


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## pdqdl (Feb 1, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> If you get a chance to see him talk, take it. He knows what he is talking about.



Are you talking about Tim Ard, or "the Progressive Farmer" ?

I don't know about Tim Ard, but I'll bet the progressive farmer doesn't really know what he is doing when he picks up a chainsaw.


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## Plasmech (Feb 1, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Are you talking about Tim Ard, or "the Progressive Farmer" ?
> 
> I don't know about Tim Ard, but I'll bet the progressive farmer doesn't really know what he is doing when he picks up a chainsaw.



What is the real name of "The Progressive Farmer"? I know it's not Tim Ard...


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## pdqdl (Feb 1, 2009)

It's a bit confusing, but I think they are one and the same. At least one of the Progressive Farmer videos starts out with Tim Ard plastered on it.

So if this guy knows so much, why is he making dumb cuts on an instructional video?


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## clearance (Feb 1, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> If you get a chance to see him talk, take it. He knows what he is talking about.



For beginner types he is mostly ok. Lots of ppe, and mostly safe habits. BUT-
I have seen his bore cutting video, it sucks, the undercut is not 1/3 of the tree, more like 1/6. This is so he can get his bar in, obviuosly, however it is wrong, and could lead to bigtime problems. And he dousn't look up when falling. But he does explain to look around, anyways, he is a lot better than some I have seen.


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## outofmytree (Feb 2, 2009)

I have been on the saw for a little while... and those cuts confused me too. I have occasionally used the first cut but never with such a wide "scarf". I honestly have no idea what use the second cut would be. The third cut was a cracker. The only time I have ever shaved the bark off a log was by accident and sure as eggs I would not have put that cut on video. 

On the plus side, he wore all the ppe ever invented and the first 5 points he made are instinctive for experienced saw hands but vital for newbies to learn. It was a step up from "expert village" but not by much.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 2, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> I have been on the saw for a little while... and those cuts confused me too. I have occasionally used the first cut but never with such a wide "scarf".



I use this frequently when "walking" hung trees down. Maintaining holding wood in the hinge allows a more controlled fall. Wide face keeps the hinge from closing and breaking. To me salami cuts are more "cut and pray" work habits



> I honestly have no idea what use the second cut would be.



I use this when I'm concerned that there may be some movement on separation that I would not like, say a roll, or pinch. The cut away before he used his foot to break the bypass, maybe it did not break on the first try.

[/QUOTE]The third cut was a cracker. The only time I have ever shaved the bark off a log was by accident and sure as eggs I would not have put that cut on video. 
[/QUOTE]

This allows you to control the movement of the "sprung" limb when a tear cut may cause a pinch or violent separation.

IMO pro that dose not have several different ways to cut wood is an unsafe production worker. I use these and others and I'm not slow.

Progressive Farmer is a magazine; http://progressivefarmer.com/


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