# What to charge for EAB 2 year treatment?



## Dbodave (Nov 12, 2015)

We've been doing trunk injections with Tree-age the last 4 years and the standard rate has always been $8.00-$10.00 per inch, with a few larger jobs around $7.00 per inch. The new dilemma, quoting as low as $7.00 per inch we are being under bid by as much as $2.00 per inch. 

We are located in Minnesota and our neighbor Rainbow tree care has contracted with minnetonka to treat thousands of public ash. They have extended the bulk rate to homeowners for an average cost of $97.00 for a 17" diameter tree or approximately $5.70 per inch. 

http://eminnetonka.com/images/proje...aturalresources/Tree Injection Flyer 2015.pdf
http://www.ci.apple-valley.mn.us/DocumentCenter/View/5793

These rates are so low we have to lower our prices and switch to the generic arbormectin to save a few bucks. Has anyone else had this happen in their cities? What is the going rate?


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## ATH (Nov 12, 2015)

Are you still making money at the lower cost? Are you using the same rate of chemical they are? I wouldn't bother treating if all I could get was $5.70 per inch using Tree-AGE at 10ml per inch. I need to look at switching to generic next year.


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## Dbodave (Nov 13, 2015)

5 ml per inch around here. Very little money charging municipal rates to private homeowners. I'm not sure what the plan will be for next year.


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## ATH (Nov 13, 2015)

OK...I use 5ml for everything under 15" and 10 for those over. Probably will start to scale back in another rotation or two...not many living untreated host trees left around here. If it is just cranking up, you might think about treating with a higher rate and let clients know that when you bid???


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## Dbodave (Nov 16, 2015)

It hasn't really blown up yet but is slowly being discovered all over the state. It was found in minneapolis 8 years ago, but I've only seen a few large pockets of infestation there. The city plan to remove all ash might be helping to slow it down. Next year will be year 3 of the 5 year plan. Definitely will look into the higher rates at some point. Do you get 3 year control with 10 ml rate?
Thanks!


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## ATH (Nov 16, 2015)

Last I heard Ohio State was saying "probably". I haven't found a client yet that wants the research of skipped treatments to happen on their trees...


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## Scottie Ash tree seed (Dec 18, 2016)

As a Public tree advocate and Volunteer TreeKeeper Arborist, who would pay owners for chance save endangered trees life. Applying trunk injected Tree-age G4, I charge customer for price of insecticide & Supplies, plus $20-$40 for labor. That comes out to be around $35-$45 for trees under age 50, and $100-$120 total for biggest individuals whose age ranges from 90-150.


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## Jason Douglas (Dec 20, 2016)

Im at $10 per inch but have done $15 per inch at the 15ml rate. Got a couple cool customers whom I've convinced to go with a 3 year injection time. Columbus got hit early and hard with EAB due to rapid growth and development here that led to LOTS of ash being planted that likely brought the critter in. 

Testimonial: I have a 32" ash that went *4 years *in between treatments and still looks pretty damn good (we frankly just forgot about the tree...) Rate used was around 7-8ml per inch in 2012. Gave it 15ml rate this early summer with a 3X water to tree age ratio. We shall see.

Remember, the MSU data that's been out for a while showed that the higher rates were quite effective for 3 years. The 2 year rate is in the best interests of Arbor Jet, not us or the customers. 
Or how bout the tree? I know there have been studies showing ash to be not terribly affected by drilling but how sustainable is this on a 2 year cycle? I personally dont know but I suspect repeated drilling and injecting is going to catch up to some of these trees and decay could win out. Ash isnt a particularly good comartmentalizer something has to give. 

Lord knows eab isnt the only buggers around now or on the horizon where trunk injections will continue to be used. Could be a slippery slope for all involved but we shall see I suppose.


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## Jason Douglas (Dec 20, 2016)

A good way to deal with the "under bidder" types is to be upfront about the rates you use and why. Invite the homeowner to watch you mix a strong rate and/or plant the bug that these folks may be charging less cuz they're using low rates.

Competing against Rainbow could certainly be problematic as they're using their own product at cost where as we have to pay more.

I too will be looking into a generic.


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## Menchhofer (Dec 24, 2016)

From day one we have charged 15.00 per inch and will continue to do so.


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## ATH (Dec 27, 2016)

What rate do you use Steve?

The new Tree-age costs less and goes in MUCH quicker so you can help your customers out with a lower cost per inch (using the same rate) and still increase profits. Win-win it seems to me.


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## Menchhofer (Dec 27, 2016)

ATH said:


> What rate do you use Steve?
> 
> The new Tree-age costs less and goes in MUCH quicker so you can help your customers out with a lower cost per inch (using the same rate) and still increase profits. Win-win it seems to me.




Last time I checked the newer treeage was only 30.00 less expensive per quart or liter. This would not affect final pricing at all. True, time spent on site would definitely be an asset though. I had planned on trying it out this coming season. Perhaps our pricing will reflect savings if they are significant. Would be nice to lower costs to customers.


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## ATH (Dec 27, 2016)

$40 less....but yeah, the big player is the time. The difference in uptake speed is significant.


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## Dbodave (Jan 13, 2017)

Are you talking about the tree-age g4 or whatever it was called? If so I'm going to freak out. I just picked up 16 grand worth of the original treeage. I have no complaints about uptake speed though. Healthy tree = fast uptake


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## Jason Douglas (Jan 13, 2017)

Hot dry day = no uptake.

Frustrating as hell so I shoot for spring into summer before heat hits.


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## Jason Douglas (Jan 14, 2017)

G4 is faster but the Rainbow product was impressively fast at a demo/field day I went to.


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## ATH (Jan 14, 2017)

You can still get Arbormectin (the product Rainbow was selling). I have used both that and G4 and they seemed to be about the same. No question that both are significantly faster than original TREE-age.


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## Jed1124 (Jan 14, 2017)

When I tested the 3 at the same time on the same tree Arbormectin was significantly faster than g4. Both are much faster than the original though.
I charge by the ml with a minimum price. With the dosage rate making 3 jumps over the rate card it works well.


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## Dbodave (Jan 27, 2017)

I'll have to ask about the G4 when my tree-age runs out. I've only had a few slow trees the past couple years. I think technique is a big factor. If it's hot and dry I ask homeowners to water the night before. I can tell they watered because the chips from drilling will be nice and moist.


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## Jed1124 (Jan 27, 2017)

Dbodave said:


> I'll have to ask about the G4 when my tree-age runs out. I've only had a few slow trees the past couple years. I think technique is a big factor. If it's hot and dry I ask homeowners to water the night before. I can tell they watered because the chips from drilling will be nice and moist.


I like when water starts to pool in the holes you've drilled, you know your going to get great uptake.
You will be impressed with the rate of uptake of g4 or Arbormectin over original tree age. Like 50% more trees injected in a day impressed, edpecially with arbormectin.


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## Jason Douglas (Jan 28, 2017)

Arborjet rep said that 10ml/ 1" is the new high rate instead of 15ml/1".

So, is this because they're trying to downplay the old high rate being effective for 3 years (more?) or that it was no more effective at the higher rate? No way they want folks moving to a 3 year cycle.

Anybody used it to try stopping oak wasp galls like gouty? I bet it would work.


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## Jed1124 (Jan 28, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> Arborjet rep said that 10ml/ 1" is the new high rate instead of 15ml/1".
> 
> So, is this because they're trying to downplay the old high rate being effective for 3 years (more?) or that it was no more effective at the higher rate? No way they want folks moving to a 3 year cycle.
> 
> Anybody used it to try stopping oak wasp galls like gouty? I bet it would work.


Probably work for gouty but I would try one of the neo nics or acephate first. As I'm sure you know, gouty is rarely serious and more of an aesthetic problem.
I just hate doing injections unless the disease or insect pest is fatal. Oaks that have been injected leave a lot of sooty mold around the injection sights. 
If crypt gall wasp or black oak gall wasp were to make headway I would be open to the use of em Ben injections as they will kill a tree.


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## Jason Douglas (Jan 29, 2017)

Yeah shoulda written damaging cynipid wasp galls instead of gouty but I'm lazy.

Most times no biggie but we have some big pins and shingles that get riddled here. Way to big for spraying and the lifecycle can be a bugger to go after the mobile stage.

Pruning them out isnt a very feasible option when they're big trees and galls are everywhere. Its a bugger.


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## Dbodave (Feb 9, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> Arborjet rep said that 10ml/ 1" is the new high rate instead of 15ml/1".


Was that Jeff Palmer?


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## Dbodave (Feb 9, 2017)

More unsettling news. Heard back our quote of 10.00 per inch for a 28" and 32" tree was double of what "Bartlett" quoted.


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## ATH (Feb 9, 2017)

I spoke with Rainbow rep at Ohio tree care conference last week. She said they have found that 5ml of G4 is good for most trees. I find that to be good news because I can lower the cost to my clients without sacrificing profit.


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## Jed1124 (Feb 9, 2017)

Dbodave said:


> More unsettling news. Heard back our quote of 10.00 per inch for a 28" and 32" tree was double of what "Bartlett" quoted.


Acording to my rate chart, I would be using 217 ml on a 28" tree. At .48 cents per ml that's $104 in product cost for that tree. If you quoted $280, half of that would be $140. I find it hard to believe even the big B would inject a tree at a $36 profit.
You gave them good prices. Stick with them.


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## Jed1124 (Feb 9, 2017)

I also forgot the 12 plugs at .50c a piece. So we can knock off another 6 bucks from their profit.


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## Dbodave (Feb 9, 2017)

Jed1124 said:


> Acording to my rate chart, I would be using 217 ml on a 28" tree. At .48 cents per ml that's $104 in product cost for that tree. If you quoted $280, half of that would be $140. I find it hard to believe even the big B would inject a tree at a $36 profit.
> You gave them good prices. Stick with them.


Thanks, We're still using the 5m/1" rate over here. It hasn't blown up here yet, but might have to bump up the rate when it does. I told the estimator we could knock 100 off the total but wouldn't be comfortable going lower. We did land the approval to do trimming and apple scab spraying so maybe they'll go with us to have one company doing all.


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## Jason Douglas (Feb 9, 2017)

Dbodave said:


> Was that Jeff Palmer?


No it was Zac Purinton


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## Jason Douglas (Feb 9, 2017)

Jed1124 said:


> Acording to my rate chart, I would be using 217 ml on a 28" tree. At .48 cents per ml that's $104 in product cost for that tree. If you quoted $280, half of that would be $140. I find it hard to believe even the big B would inject a tree at a $36 profit.
> You gave them good prices. Stick with them.


And we dont know what rate Big Yellow is using. Your pricing is all good.


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