# it's always something



## mtngun (Aug 27, 2009)

Last time I posted, my Alaskan mill had cracked and the auxilary oiler had plugged up.

I filed out the crack and welded it up with stick. Stick welding small aluminum parts sux, so the repair may eventually fail, but for now it's doing the job. I can't find the pic so I'll have to post it later.

As for the plugged up oiler, I replaced the Granberg supplied fitting with a simple homemade drip tube. Now the oiler drips directly onto the sprocket. Again, I can't find the pics, so I'll have to give you an IOU.

So I was happily milling away with the repaired Alaskan..... and before the ergonomics nazis say anything, I usually mill sitting comfortably on the guide board, but it is necessary to stand up and bend over for the slab cut since the guide board has minimal support on this cut. I don't carry a forklift or sawhorses or jacks around in the woods to lift the log up to a more comfortable position.






These were mostly the tops from the blowdowns I had milled the previous week. I use the tops and other small logs to make 8" x 8" posts, which will come in handy if I ever get around to building a woodshed.





Anyway, after a few hours, the 066 had slowed down noticeably. Thinking the chain was dull, I swapped in a fresh chain, but still the saw was cutting slow. 

It gradually got worse until it would bog if pushed even a little bit. "Hmmm, maybe the air filter is plugged up", though usually the Stihl air filters continue working well even when they are coated with dust. So I pulled the filter and shook the dust off.

Uh - oh, there was lots of dust inside the filter and on the inner baffle. The filter had not sealed properly. That explains why the saw had gradually gotten weaker. I think I know why it didn't seal, but you'll have to take an IOU on that story.

This 066 was tired when I acquired it, and has milled many loads of boards since then. I'd bought a BB kit, seals, a vacuum tester, and a carb kit, but never found time to put them to use. Guess now I'll have to make time. It may be a while before I can schedule the surgery, in the meantime, I'll have to get my milling fix here on Arborsite.

As Roseanne Roseannadanna said, "It's always something."


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## deeker (Aug 27, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Last time I posted, my Alaskan mill had cracked and the auxilary oiler had plugged up.
> 
> I filed out the crack and welded it up with stick. Stick welding small aluminum parts sux, so the repair may eventually fail, but for now it's doing the job. I can't find the pic so I'll have to post it later.
> 
> ...



Good to see you back to milling. What is this about surgery?

Kevin


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## gr8scott72 (Aug 27, 2009)

deeker said:


> Good to see you back to milling. What is this about surgery?
> 
> Kevin



Think he's talking about the upcoming open-heart surgery for his 066. 



P.S. I do tree work, stump grinding and that is becoming my motto: It's always something.

My brother has a friend that he used to work for and instead of saying "If it's not one thing it's another." he said "If it's not one thing it's your mother." 

lol


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## BobL (Aug 27, 2009)

mtngun said:


> So I was happily milling away with the repaired Alaskan..... and before the ergonomics nazis say anything, I usually mill sitting comfortably on the guide board, but it is necessary to stand up and bend over for the slab cut since the guide board has minimal support on this cut. I don't carry a forklift or sawhorses or jacks around in the woods to lift the log up to a more comfortable position.


That'll be me, but I won't comment on that - Instead I'll play my where's your "visual PE" card,  



> Anyway, after a few hours, the 066 had slowed down noticeably. Thinking the chain was dull, I swapped in a fresh chain, but still the saw was cutting slow.


A few hours!!! :jawdrop: how long do you cut between touching up the chain?



> This 066 was tired when I acquired it, and has milled many loads of boards since then. I'd bought a BB kit, seals, a vacuum tester, and a carb kit, but never found time to put them to use. Guess now I'll have to make time. It may be a while before I can schedule the surgery, in the meantime, I'll have to get my milling fix here on Arborsite.
> 
> As Roseanne Roseannadanna said, "It's always something."



Sure is!


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## Mike Van (Aug 27, 2009)

"Uh - oh, there was lots of dust inside the filter and on the inner baffle. The filter had not sealed properly. That explains why the saw had gradually gotten weaker. I think I know why it didn't seal, but you'll have to take an IOU on that story.

This 066 was tired when I acquired it, and has milled many loads of boards since then. I'd bought a BB kit, seals, a vacuum tester, and a carb kit, but never found time to put them to use. Guess now I'll have to make time. It may be a while before I can schedule the surgery, in the meantime, I'll have to get my milling fix here on Arborsite. " Is there a spark screen in your muffler? I'd check it out before I tore that saw apart. Unless a carb is actually packed with chips so it can't suck air, some dust shouldn't hurt. It gets sucked in, mixed with gas, burnt, and blown out the exhaust. My 3 old Homelites always have a lot of dust inside the carb boxes, especially cutting locust [hard & dry] They run just fine though.


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## olyman (Aug 27, 2009)

as mike said. me thinks it would take a huge bunch of dust to ruin it. pull an check the muffler--


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## mtngun (Aug 27, 2009)

_How long do I run until sharpening ?_ It's very awkward to sharpen on an Alaskan, so I swap chains instead (it's awkward to swap chains, as well, but I keep saying I will fix that). Anyway, I swap chains around mid day. One chain in the morning, another chain in the afternoon. No aussie hardwood here.

It's got a dual port muffler, so it has two outlet screens plus a long 3/16" gap along the bottom edge of the muffler cover. I think the gap would ensure flow even if the screens plugged up. BTW, I don't recommend the dual port muffler for milling -- way too much exhaust directed at your hands.

I haven't had time to test compression yet, or anything else. However, the rope test did feel wimpy. The 066 would bog, sometimes die, and just didn't have enough grunt to cut. Something is definitely wrong. 

It wasn't just a little dust inside the filter, the inside was completely coated with sawdust. The filter had not sealed around the edge, even though the filter screw was plenty tight. By the time I discovered the leak, it had been sucking sawdust for 4 - 5 hours. More info later.


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## mtngun (Aug 27, 2009)

The stick-welded repair to the Alaskan. Preheated to 500 degrees F, several passes, cleaning between passes. It stayed pretty hot while welding so I skipped post heat. Stick aluminum is not the greatest and this piece is highly stressed, so it may fail eventually. The piece probably should be redesigned.





The oiler mod. I cut a couple inches off a 5/16" bolt, drilled a hole length wise through the bolt, and turned one end down to the correct diameter to accept the oil hose. Then welded the piece to the Alaskan. No need to make it adjustable for precise placement, as long as oil dribbles onto the nose of the bar, gravity and vibration will do the rest.





Checked compression on the 066. At 4600 feet altitude, it blew 140 psi cold, compared to 130 psi when I acquired it a year ago. 140 psi @ 4600' is equivalent to 160+psi at sea level. Hmmmmm...... I am puzzled, because when it was hot, it had no grunt and took little effort to pull start even without engaging the compression release.

So...... let's pull the muffler. Muffler screens were sooty but otherwise clear. Exhaust side of piston has no major scoring, but lots of carbon in exhaust port, and brown baked-on gunk near top of piston. No doubt gunk is caused by inhaling sawdust. 





The camera makes the piston look worse than it really was. Except for the baked on sawdust, the piston and cylinder looked fine. However, if sawdust did damage the engine, I would expect the damage to be worse on the intake side of the piston. Even if it did not cause wear or scoring, the sawdust may have gunked up the rings. 

I haven't decided whether to pull the top end. Considering the good cold compression, it is tempting to run a couple of tanks of seafoam mix through the saw and see if that un-gunks it. On the other hand, since I have a BB kit on hand, it is tempting to install the BB kit. Decisions, decisions.......

Back to the leaky filter...... I was running a Bailey's filter, which is a clone of the OEM filter, except I was using the OEM plastic baffle instead of the foam baffle that came with the Bailey's filter. Until now, I'd never noticed a difference in performance between the two filters or the two types of baffles. I've also run without any baffle and couldn't detect a difference. Most commonly, though, I use the OEM baffle, because it is easier to install and easier to clean, and because I figured Stihl must have had a good reason for switching to the plastic baffle.





Problem was, the OEM baffle was bottoming out before the Bailey's filter bottomed out, so the filter didn't seal well. Hence the ingested sawdust. If I had used the foam baffle supplied by Bailey's, there would have been no problem.

And actually, the OEM filter/baffle combination has always leaked a little. The leak was just a lot worse with the Bailey filter/OEM baffle combo.

I measured both filters to see if there was a difference in dimensions. 
OEM filter inside depth = 1.461"
Bailey's filter inside depth = 1.448"
OEM baffle height = 1.429"

So...... the Bailey's filter is not quite as deep as the OEM. In theory, it should have been deep enough to cover the OEM baffle, but there must have not been enough clearance remaining to allow compressing the filter lips. 





I'm not knocking the Bailey's filter, but if your run the OEM hard baffle, be aware that some filters may "bottom out" on the baffle without compressing the filter lips. This problem could easily be avoided by sanding a few thou off the baffle, or by using a foam baffle.


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## Hddnis (Aug 28, 2009)

Might be that the sawdust has collected in the crankcase or transfers and it messing with the charge flow; changing volume or flow rate can mess with a saws power big time. 

That would likely mean a tear down. You might be able to flush the bearings and not have to split the case to get it all clean. 

Let us know what you find and lots of pics please.



Mr. HE


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## BIG JAKE (Aug 28, 2009)

140 psi sounds ok. I'm running the same filter setup with the foam baffle and it's been working good. If it were me, I'd pull the top end and clean it up/decarbonize. You can look into the crank then too but I doubt you'll find much down there but at least you'll know. Clean the intake and carb apart too-should be back in business. Good luck and keep us informed.


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## mtngun (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm still pondering the options. 

Meanwhile, I sanded about 0.019" off the plastic inner baffle, so it should seal reliably with either filter -- just to make sure the problem never happens again.

This saw has never idled well, so a carb kit and vacuum test are definitely on the agenda. 

I'm thinking _"with the carb and muffler off, there's only 4 more bolts to yank the top end."_


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## olyman (Aug 28, 2009)

get a piece of self stick door foam--the type used to seal the door against cold. stick on top of filter, and clamp down--no more injestion--id try the seafoam also--wont hurt, and may loosen up the carbon--


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## Brmorgan (Aug 30, 2009)

You're lucky. To all who say that a bit of dust isn't a big deal, well, maybe you've never dealt with douglas-fir bark dust. It's so fine that it gets in every little nook and cranny, and only the very best filters can get all of it. It's also so packed with resins that it gums up and hardens just like epoxy when heated. All my saws have it baked right on all around the muffler, and it takes a good soak in Varsol followed by some NaOH degreaser to get it off.

The problem is that when sawdust burns up in a combustion chamber, it turns to almost solid carbon. When this builds up it can get harder than the aluminum of the piston and can scratch the heck out of it. Not usually as bad as straight-gassing, but the effects can be the same. Though you're right, it should also affect the intake side of the piston, if not moreso. It can also build up on the crown of the piston and the squish band of the cylinder to the degree where the piston starts to touch the top of the cylinder.

The damage you show is what I'd expect from carbon scoring, There is a pretty decent buildup there, though I do totally understand what you mean about the camera making it look worse than it is. But if it's blowing 140, that shouldn't be keeping it from running, unless the test is inaccurate because of excess oil or fuel in the cylinder.



BobL said:


> A few hours!!! :jawdrop: how long do you cut between touching up the chain?



Even though it's one of the harder softwoods, Douglas Fir pales in comparison even to hard oak, let alone the stuff you tend to work with. I've found that the biggest factor in my chains dulling is crud in the bark. With clean, debarked logs (not normally difficult with dead standing D Fir), I can usually do a couple-few hundred BF of Douglas Fir before noticing the cut slowing significantly.



mtngun said:


> It's got a dual port muffler, so it has two outlet screens plus a long 3/16" gap along the bottom edge of the muffler cover. I think the gap would ensure flow even if the screens plugged up. BTW, I don't recommend the dual port muffler for milling -- way too much exhaust directed at your hands.
> 
> I haven't had time to test compression yet, or anything else. However, the rope test did feel wimpy. The 066 would bog, sometimes die, and just didn't have enough grunt to cut. Something is definitely wrong.
> 
> It wasn't just a little dust inside the filter, the inside was completely coated with sawdust. The filter had not sealed around the edge, even though the filter screw was plenty tight. By the time I discovered the leak, it had been sucking sawdust for 4 - 5 hours. More info later.



Well, if you keep that dual-port cover and put the BB kit on, you'll have one nice milling rig there. I do run into the same issue with the muffler mod I did on my 395 - at shallow cut depths, and especially at 1", it's blowing straight onto my right hand, and heats up the mill structure to the point of being uncomfortable to hold sometimes. It's a nice feature in cold weather though! But in the end, the extra grunt is well worth the tradeoff. It pulls WAY harder than it did stock.

I was having the same symptoms with my 066 when I was milling some cedar for my friend back in April - started bogging down and wouldn't hold an idle. No compression at the rope, so I checked filter, muffler, everything... Then I went to pull the plug, and it was only holding on by maybe a thread and a half at most! I would think that you would have noticed if this were the case with yours, but it _would_ explain why it blew fine on the compression tester.


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## mtngun (Aug 30, 2009)

Yep, the sawdust from doug fir is like powder. I keep a couple of buckets of it around the shop for soaking up oil spills. 

I'm guessing the compression _*gained*_ 10 psi due to burnt sawdust build up on top of the piston and on the dome of the cylinder.

I'm guessing that as the piston heats up and expands, the burnt sawdust gunk on the piston starts to rub and creates lots of heat and friction. 

I checked the spark plug, it was tight, but it'll get a new plug, anyway.

Lots of threads on poor idle over on the chainsaw forum. Sounds like it could be caused by just about anything. But, considering this saw has run OK (until it ingested the sawdust) at full throttle for a year, I'd put money on a carb issue. If it were a vacuum leak, it would have fried the motor long ago.

The saw is on the back burner at the moment -- my woodcutting permit expired, and the drying tent is nearly full, so there is no urgent need to get the saw running -- but I'm still leaning toward installing the BB kit.


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## mtngun (Sep 4, 2009)

Installed the BB kit and carb kit yesterday. Hopefully I'll have time to post pics this evening.

Found another issue that may prevent the filter from sealing well, will post pics on that, too.

Installed a 24" bar and bucked firewood for a few minutes with the BB kit. Good news is that the saw now idles pretty decent, even flywheel side down, which it never did before, so I must have accidently done something right to the carb. 

As far as power from the BB kit, nothing earth shattering yet, but then again, the oiler wasn't oiling the bar, so that didn't help. The oilier had been acting during the past couple of milling trips.

Next project is to tear into the oiler. It's always something .....


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## BobL (Sep 4, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Good news is that the saw now idles pretty decent, even flywheel side down, which it never did before, so I must have accidently done something right to the carb. .



That sounds more like a crankcase pressure issue - did you test it after rebuild?


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## mtngun (Sep 4, 2009)

BobL, I'm not sure what you mean by "crankcase pressure issue." ???

Since I acquired the saw, it never idled well, and wouldn't idle at all when turned on its side, flywheel side down. As you know, idling problems can be a symptom of an air leak ....... or half a dozen other things. Since the saw ran OK at full throttle (until it swallowed a lot of sawdust) I was pretty sure the problem was in the carb, not an air leak.

But to be sure, I did a vacuum test.

FIrst, I reviewed Four Paws' excellent thread on vacuum testing.

Then I made temporary covers for the intake and exhaust. I used scrap pieces of neoprene and scrap pieces of steel.





With the temporary covers sealing the intake and exhaust, the vacuum pump was connected to the impulse line and pumped down to 10 inHg vacuum.





At first, it seemed to have a bad leak, however, it turned out that the decompression valve was leaking. If I twisted the decomp valve, sometimes the leak would stop. I tried installing a new decomp valve, but it did exactly the same thing. I gave up and just twisted the decomp valve until it stopped leaking. That done, the vacuum held steady.





On to the rebuild.......as it turned out, the saw had an OEM piston and jug. There was some mild scuffing on the intake side below the port, probably due to ingesting sawdust.


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## mtngun (Sep 4, 2009)

The exhaust side had a couple of pits in the plating. I don't know if the pits were caused by the sawdust, but the pits are definitely filled with sawdust gunk. The damage is all below the ports. Everything above the ports looks good, so I think the cylinder is still usable.





Minor scuffing on the piston, nothing major. 





The picture isn't very clear, but the sawdust gunk buildup on the piston and cylinder dome was so thick that at TDC there was zero squish, and the piston gunk was actually hitting the cylinder dome. The heavy build up explains why the compression actually gained 10 psi even though the saw had little power.





It's about what I expected -- the sawdust gunked up the rings and the combustion chamber and created a lot of friction, but didn't do much serious damage. A new piston and rings should bring this cylinder back to life.

However, I have a Bailey's BB kit laying around, and I wanted to give it a try. This particular kit was purchased about a year ago. Since then, there have been some problems with some batches, and also some improvements made to the kits. I was extra careful to look for the problems that have been reported.

First off, will the BB piston fit in the OEM metal base gasket ? No, it wouldn't fit. I filed the inside of the metal gasket until the BB piston could fit through it.

Does the BB piston hit the crankcase at BDC ? No, it didn't hit, but it was awful close. Just to be safe, I relieved the edge of the crankcase enough to ensure the piston would never hit it. Sorry, no pics.

Then, with the OEM metal base gasket installed, I checked squish and cold compression. The metal gasket was 0.016" thick. The squish was about 0.026" and the cold compression was 105 psi. That's lousy compression, so I decided to up the compression by using a thinner gasket. 

A 0.010" gasket would put the squish at 0.020", so I rummaged around until I found some heavy paper 0.010" thick. I applied a thin layer of silicone to both sides of the paper, set the cylinder on the paper, and clamped it down while the silicone dried. After the silicone has set up, I trimmed the paper using a utility knife (an exacto knive would have worked better.






--


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## mtngun (Sep 5, 2009)

With the paper gasket, squish was 0.018" - 0.020". Exactly what I wanted ! ! ! 

Cold compression with the as-yet virgin rings was up, but only to 120 psi. I was hoping for more. Perhaps it will get better after the rings break in, but I'm concerned that the BB combustion dome may be too large for good compression with reasonable squish. The jury is still out.

While I had the saw apart, I also rebuilt the carb, using a kit purchased from Baileys. I used compressed air to blow the heck out of all the little orifices. No pics, because there was nothing exciting to photograph, no smoking gun that would explain the idle problem.

I mentioned that I found yet another issue that may prevent the intake filter from sealing well. Even if you toss the hard plastic inner baffle, the filter still bottoms out on this diecast boss (see pic). The boss protrudes about 1.450" , and that's about how deep the filters are. That's no good -- you want to be able to compress the filter slightly, so the sealing lips will give a little and form a complete seal.





So I filed down the boss a little. With the filed-down boss, and using a foam inner baffle instead of the hard plastic inner baffle, now you can preload the air filter nice and snug.





OK, so now we have installed a BB kit, fixed the leaky air filter, and went through the carb. To break the saw in, I installed a 24" bar and bucked some small firewood. I deliberately set the carb pig rich for break in. 

As reported earlier, the saw now idles reliably, so I think the carb kit did fix something.

Power seems ho-hum, though that is partly due to the rich tune.

The oiler was not working at all, and it let me know by throwing the chain, so I shut it down.


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## mtngun (Sep 5, 2009)

On to the oiler problem .......:taped:

First thing I did was read Lakeside's excellent thread on the 066 oiler. It actually is broken down into several threads, but that link will get you started.

Lakeside's tutorial gave me an important clue.


> _Locate the pump drive arm and be sure it locks into the clutch drum notch when you insert the drum. If not, it can damage the pump housing_.



*Well, now they tell me* ! ! ! 

As per Lakesides advice, after every CSM session, I have faithfully lubed the clutch bearing. Lakesides believes that the clutch bearings work extra hard while milling, so they should be lubed every day. Of course, accessing the clutch bearing requires removing, then reinstalling the clutch drum.

I did not know that I was supposed to lock the drum notch into a pump drive arm. :censored: Somewhere along the way, I probably installed the drum incorrectly, so that it was merely rubbing on the pump drive arm. This is the result.





It was ugly. The drum had bent the drive arm backwards so the drive arm was rubbing on things it wasn't supposed to rub on. 

However, after cleaning up the mess, everything seems to be intact despite the rubbing. I put it back together and tested with no bar installed. It was pumping a little oil, but it was leaking more oil around the clutch and around the chain adjuster. I suspect the pump is not sealing properly against the crankcase, so I'll have to tear the pump apart again and give it another look.

That's as far as I've got on this project. Will post more as things progress.


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## BobL (Sep 5, 2009)

By pressure I mean vacuum and pressure test. I note you only did the vacuum test.
Manual says 7.25 psi pressure and 4.25 psi on the vacuum.


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## DaltonPaull (Sep 5, 2009)

I was having problems with my 066 seizing but it tested OK when I vacum/pressure tested it (invested in a mighty vac for that.) Finally I realized that the crank bearings had some play and when you pushed the shaft to the side it would start to leak. I think this might have been causing an air leak during cutting. Someone with more experience than me would have noticed this right off.

Just thought I'd put that out there for one more thing to double check.....


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## mtngun (Sep 5, 2009)

BobL said:


> By pressure I mean vacuum and pressure test. I note you only did the vacuum test.
> Manual says 7.25 psi pressure and 4.25 psi on the vacuum.



I'm new to vacuum testing, so I don't claim to have all the answers, but it is my understanding that air leaking into the saw (a vacuum leak) can cause a lean condition and damage the saw, but fuel/air mix leaking out of the saw should not harm anything. 

According to the suggestions in Four Paw's thread, if the saws passes the vacuum test, it's good to go. But if it fails the vacuum test, then a positive pressure test can be used to pinpoint the leak, by the sound of hissing air, or by squirting soapy water on the seals and looking for bubbles. 

Some people like to do both the vacuum test and pressure test. But, the vacuum test makes more sense to me.

I forgot to mention it, but I did spin the crank during the vacuum test.

Other than the idle problem -- which seems to have been fixed by the carb kit -- I had no reason to believe that the saw had an air leak. Until ingesting the sawdust, the saw had always run slightly rich at full throttle with the H screw roughly 3/4 turns out. If it had an air leak, you would expect to see symptoms at full throttle, too, not just at idle.

There was a thread on the chainsaw forum a couple of weeks ago, where Brad Snelling fixed an identical 066 idle problem with a carb kit. brad fixes idle

Well, let's hope I can get the oil pump working satisfactorily, and then I can break in the BB kit and see if the compression gets to where I want it. I'm not real optimistic about the compression ratio on the BB kit.


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## BobL (Sep 5, 2009)

mtngun said:


> According to the suggestions in Four Paw's thread, if the saws passes the vacuum test, it's good to go. But if it fails the vacuum test, then a positive pressure test can be used to pinpoint the leak, by the sound of hissing air, or by squirting soapy water on the seals and looking for bubbles.



The primary test is the positive pressure test because that forces the parts apart and checks for leaks in crankcases and joints. Vacuum testing pulls pieces together so is less likely to detect cracks and certain types of gasket problems. In the manual the vacuum test is described as an additional test for oil seals which are more likely to fail under vacuum than pressure testing.


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## BIG JAKE (Sep 6, 2009)

Nice work Mtn gun. On the oil pump, I'd remove that. Hold the pump in your hand and check for sideplay on the inner shaft. Mine was very sloppy(worn out). It would also leak oil when not in use. I replaced the pump with 1122 640 3201 (for 066-australian HO oil pump) at Lakesides recommendation. Been happy since then and it pumps out a lot of oil-I don't use an auxillary oiler. Doesn't leak oil anymore either. Just make sure you don't lose the seal grommets behind the pump or just replace. 
On the compression I've read alot of threads where guys were using OEM rings on these kits. The compression will go up as the rings seat-don't worry. Nice work 

Lakeside's oil pump thread: 
Part 1: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31559&highlight=australian
Part 2: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=409998#post409998
Part 3: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31562


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## mtngun (Sep 6, 2009)

Double checking the oiler to figure out why more oil was drooling from the clutch than from the oil slot. This time, I remembered to wear my bifocals, so I could actually see stuff. 

By the way, you can remove the oiler without disturbing the brake band. One less thing to do.

Seals seem to be all there.






Funny how I failed to notice this the first time I inspected the oiler -- when I didn't have my glasses on.





Well, the oiler may be toast, but there's nothing to lose by trying a JB repair.





Let's give the JB a day or two to harden.


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## BIG JAKE (Sep 7, 2009)

opcorn:Good thread Mtngun and you saved some money too with the repair! Will you be able to get some more permits to mill this year?


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## mtngun (Sep 7, 2009)

Yep, we received 3.25" of rain in August, so the fire hazard is low now and they should sell me another permit. Only bad thing is that it's nearly a two hour drive to the state land office, and the permits expire after one month, so I keep having to make the drive, over and over. The drive costs far more than the permit. 

I don't pretend to understand the logic behind the permitting process, but I try to play along.


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## BIG JAKE (Sep 8, 2009)

I wonder if they'd let you work it by mail? Be easy to send them a S.A.S.E. or see if they could extend the permit time to 2 months or more. Worst they could do is say no


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## mtngun (Sep 8, 2009)

They used to sell permits by mail or fax or email, but we have a new forester now and he is Mr. Rules and Regulations. It was his idea to make the permits expire after one month. Plus, we have to sign the permit, and our signature has to be witnessed by a state employee. No kidding ! ! ! I don't know what the heck the forester is worried about. There are only 3 families who buy permits for this mountain (and perhaps a dozen more who cut wood without buying a permit). It's not like public lands located next to a big city that get over utilized.

But, state land is the only game in town up here, so I gotta play along.

The JB'd oiler seems to be working. I ran it without the bar for a few minutes, and oil was spurting out the oil slot, but no where else.  It was getting dark, so I didn't have time to put it in wood. Maybe this evening.


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## mtngun (Sep 19, 2009)

An update on the 066 BB project.....

After several tanks of gas bucking firewood, I tuned the carb by ear and proceeded to mill ten boards.





While I was milling, I paid close attention to how the cut "felt" -- was it cutting easily, or was it struggling to maintain rpm's ? Was the saw making more power than the OEM jug, or about the same ? Bottom line -- if the saw made more power, would it cut faster/easier ?

According to my seat of the pants dyno, my BB cut about the same as OEM, or _*maybe not quite as strong*_. Sometimes it seemed to lose revs easily if I pushed the feed a little too hard. I did have to baby the feed at times, even on 16" boards.

If the saw had more power, then yes, it would cut faster, because I could feed it faster without bogging. Plus, it would be easier to operate because I wouldn't have to "baby" the feed. 

As reported earlier, compression when brand spanking new was 120 psi cold.

Now, with perhaps 10 tanks of gas through it, 125 psi cold at my 4600' altitude. (translates to 148 psi at sea level). That explains the lackluster power.

Is the low compression because the rings are not sealing well, or because the combustion chamber is too large ?

To answer that question, I squirted a generous amount of Fluid Film lubricant into the cylinder, pulled the starter cord a dozen times to distribute the oil, and retested compression. The lubricant should have temporarily sealed any leakage past the rings, yet it only blew 140 psi cold (roughly 166 psi at sea level). So it's losing maybe 15 psi due to leakage past the ring -- that doesn't seem too terrible. It makes me suspect that the low compression is due to an overly large compression chamber.

I had set the squish to 0.020", as tight as I dared, in a deliberate effort to maximize compression. At my altitude, you need extra compression to compensate for the thin air. I'm very disappointed in the low compression. 

Long term, I'll be looking for a more powerful milling saw , but for now, this is the only milling saw I've got, so I'll keep running it.

The good news is the JB'd oiler seems to be working fine.

Other good news is the modified air filter setup seems to be sealing perfectly. Here is the filter after the 10 or so tanks of gas. Filthy on the outside........





but not a spec of dust on the inside :yourock:


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## BobL (Sep 19, 2009)

mtngun said:


> I did have to baby the feed at times, even on 16" boards.


That does not sound right. On 16" boards you shouldn't need to baby it. Can you post some pics of your chain? 



> If the saw had more power, then yes, it would cut faster, because I could feed it faster without bogging. Plus, it would be easier to operate because I wouldn't have to "baby" the feed.



A bigger or more powerful saw does not automatically generate a significant increase in cutting speed. On narrow cuts, the cutting speed is often chain limited. Unless you UP the chain speed (change sprocket or increase RPM) or drop the rakers the chain is already often cutting as much as it can, pushing won't help, the chain is biting as much as it can and all pushing does is bog the saw.

That you had to baby it is I reckon something else.



> Is the low compression because the rings are not sealing well, or because the combustion chamber is too large ?


That is very unlikely. Assuming everything else is good if the saw is bogging down easily sounds like you've lost torque. what's your WOT RPM and nominal cutting RPM? Sorry to harp on this but did you check the crankcase for positive pressure?



> The good news is the JB'd oiler seems to be working fine.


Excellent



> Other good news is the modified air filter setup seems to be sealing perfectly. Here is the filter after the 10 or so tanks of gas.


That's one positive.


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## mtngun (Sep 20, 2009)

BobL said:


> That does not sound right. On 16" boards you shouldn't need to baby it. Can you post some pics of your chain?



Bailey's ripping chain, same as many here use. I doubt if my camera is capable of an adequate chain close-up, but I may try tomorrow. Sharpened with grinder, seems to cut as well after sharpening as it did new. Chain swapped when cutting speed slows noticeably, usually 6 - 8 passes. Same type of chain I have been using for the past year except a couple of months ago I switched to a FOP for the rakers and 15 degrees on the cutters, neither of which made a noticeable difference though it should result in a more aggressive cut. 

In fact, the chain specs may be too aggressive relative to the saw's power. Maybe if I went back to 10 degrees and 0.030" rakers, the mill would be a easier to operate without bogging ? I may try that.

If your point is that a sharper chain would cut better, well sure. 



> Unless you UP the chain speed (change sprocket or increase RPM) or drop the rakers the chain is already often cutting as much as it can, pushing won't help, the chain is biting as much as it can and all pushing does is bog the saw.



But if it had more power, it could maintain RPM in the cut, even when pushed a little too hard. 

If it had more power, it could run an 8 pin sprocket instead of a 7 pin. 

If power didn't matter, we'd all be milling with 33cc Homelites. Of course power matters.



> Assuming everything else is good if the saw is bogging down easily sounds like you've lost torque


 Exactly. Torque has a lot to do with compression.



> what's your WOT RPM and nominal cutting RPM?


 I'm afraid Santa hasn't left a tach in my stocking yet.



> Sorry to harp on this but did you check the crankcase for positive pressure?


 No reason to, as discussed before. Vac test was good, tune is slightly rich if you believe my ear, plug was very dark, carbon build up on piston top/exhaust port is significant, sides of piston/cylinder are wet and oily, idle is steady. All indications are that it is running slightly rich. What reason do you have to suspect an air leak ? I can't think of any.

Thanks for you comments and questions, BobL. I wish we had the opportunity to mill together sometime. Not much chance I'll ever make it to Oz, though.


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## BIG JAKE (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks for the update Mtngun. I may slap on a new OEM top end on my 066 when the time comes. Last I checked it was blowing 155psi (I'm at 5k elevation) and well used saw. I had a chance to pull the trigger on a like new 088 for 800 bones, but with the softwood I cut the saw I have is more than enough power for the job and happy(shoulda bought it anyway!  ).Good to see you're back in bidness. You could try slapping in some OEM rings I hear guys doing that. You also might still get a slight increase in compression with continued use if it hasn't run much(wouldn't bet on it tho'). With the saw cold, spray some soapy water on the decomp valve and make sure you aren't losing some comp there. Overall, seems like the inexpensive BB kits are mediocre at best from what posts I've read, although making pistons/cylinders is not rocket science. Anyway, thanks for the update-you're approach to problem solving is very good. Andy(lakeside) always did a vac & pressure test though. But I don't see that would affect your comp reading. Plug good too. Nice save on the oiler! Good thread-tried to rep ya


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