# New pictures of "Babe"



## gr8scott72

I finally got "Babe, the Blue Ox" all cleaned up and got a few good pictures. Thought I'd share:


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## ciscoguy01

*Sweet!!!!!!!*

Dude, I wanna see some pics of that damned thing in action eh? You best get to work bro, lol...

 eh?


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## gink595

That thing looks a mini excavator turned stump grinder, I bet that thing gets with the program. Nice machine.


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## gr8scott72

ciscoguy01 said:


> Dude, I wanna see some pics of that damned thing in action eh? You best get to work bro, lol...
> 
> eh?



I've had it for just over a month now. Made a bunch of money already. Here's a couple of "in-action" pictures:











That's my son (13) helping me and no, he's not near as close to the machine as it looks in that picture.

Pictures courtesy of my daughter (12). They both like going with me on jobs.


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## Blakesmaster

Nice lookin' getup there. I'm turning green w/ envy.


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## 2FatGuys

gr8scott72 said:


> That's my son (13) helping me and no, he's not near as close to the machine as it looks in that picture.
> 
> Pictures courtesy of my daughter (12). They both like going with me on jobs.



OK... but do THEY have hearing protection? I notice you do....


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## Mowingman

Nice rig. Boy, someone should have cut that stump down lower before you ground it. If I am asked to grind a tall stump like that, I nearly double the price. After all, you are doing 2 or 3 times the normal amount of grinding on that darn tall stump.
I really like my 2800 tracked Bandit machine. If Carlton had a local dealer here, I would have given their tracked machines a serious look. However, my Bandit is great. Don't know how I ever got along without a big diesel machine.
Good luck with your Carlton. Hope it makes you a lot of money.
Jeff


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## gr8scott72

2FatGuys said:


> OK... but do THEY have hearing protection? I notice you do....



They are far enuf away that I don't feel they need it.


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## gr8scott72

Mowingman said:


> Nice rig. Boy, someone should have cut that stump down lower before you ground it. If I am asked to grind a tall stump like that, I nearly double the price. After all, you are doing 2 or 3 times the normal amount of grinding on that darn tall stump.
> I really like my 2800 tracked Bandit machine. If Carlton had a local dealer here, I would have given their tracked machines a serious look. However, my Bandit is great. Don't know how I ever got along without a big diesel machine.
> Good luck with your Carlton. Hope it makes you a lot of money.
> Jeff




If you notice, they started to cut it lower but didn't finish cutting it all the way thru. The tree service was there the day before and got rained out. I was able to cut about 1/4 of the top of that stump and got to where they had cut it. Then I just pushed the loose top off with the carlton.


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## gink595

How many HP is that dude? Looks like a Kubota motor? Really nice setup, What does a setup like that run? If you don't mind me asking, if you do I understand.


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## gr8scott72

gink595 said:


> How many HP is that dude? Looks like a Kubota motor? Really nice setup, What does a setup like that run? If you don't mind me asking, if you do I understand.



It's a 60 hp deutz air cooled 3 cylindar turbo diesel. New they are about $46k. I found this one with 162 hours on it for $29,500. Drove from Mississippi to Maryland to pick it up. 16 hours one way.


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## Hoosier

How much did you charge for the stump in the picture? I want to get a larger machine but am having a hard time justifying the outlay of cash.


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## stumpgo

A very competent looking machine.

Glad you posted that it was an unfinished cut, rather than a failed few. I am very wary of failed final cuts. Sometimes there is very steel rod reason etc for them. And a few times times I've had chunks break off and shoot into the distance. The last time I scored a direct hit on a rake I'd lent against a wall, about ten paces away. Its otherwise sound handle, was snapped in two.


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## gr8scott72

Hoosier said:


> How much did you charge for the stump in the picture? I want to get a larger machine but am having a hard time justifying the outlay of cash.



Hard to say as the whole job was $900 for 14 stumps, 9 of which I did chip removal and filled in with top soil. Took all day.

That one stump would probably be about $60 around here (no clean up) but prices are very cheap here. One good thing about doing stumps here is there is NO rocks in the soil so I don't really break teeth. In about 40 hours on that machins, I've only broken 6 teeth and 4 of those broke at the same time when I hit something in one stump. I heard it go "tink" but never found what I hit.


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## stihl sawing

I need that machine for about a day, LOL That is a nice grinder. It probably does the job pretty quick.


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## Bigstumps

$60????? I'm glad you're in Mississippi!!!! Don't you come over this way and start working!! That stump is $175 as it sits, $115-120 if it were cut down.

How long did it take??

Good looking dog by the way!!!


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## Mowingman

Boy, I agree with this statement. Around here, if that stump is cut down, I would get $150.00 - 175.00 to grind it, with no chip removal. I don't know how you can make a living at those low prices. At least your new machine will allow you to get in, get done, and get out fast.
Jeff




Bigstumps said:


> $60????? I'm glad you're in Mississippi!!!! Don't you come over this way and start working!! That stump is $175 as it sits, $115-120 if it were cut down.
> 
> How long did it take??
> 
> Good looking dog by the way!!!


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## gr8scott72

Mowingman said:


> Boy, I agree with this statement. Around here, if that stump is cut down, I would get $150.00 - 175.00 to grind it, with no chip removal. I don't know how you can make a living at those low prices. At least your new machine will allow you to get in, get done, and get out fast.
> Jeff



Ever since Katrina, there's lots of competition and the public still thinks they can get stumps done for $8 each. At least I don't have any rocks to worry with.


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## gr8scott72

Here's the rest of my stuff:

Truck is a 93 Ford F-250 SuperCab Long Bed 2WD with the 460 V8 with 135k miles that I got for $2,800:











Plywood for screen and to use under machine to keep from damaging turf if needed and the 4 sections of chain that I had welded straight to the frame to tie Babe down:
















Wheelbarrow is mounted on side and is lockable:





Stihl BR600, diesel can, gas mix for Alpine grinder and chainsaw and blower, 5 gal water cooler, spare tire, and scoop mount:






Hand tools across the front:


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## gr8scott72

Tool box contents:
















Bigger saw:






attached to Alpine grinder:


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## stihl sawing

Scott, you have got one sweet set up. Most of us would do anything to have a rig like that.


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## Bigstumps

Great looking setup!!!!

Here is the tip of day for you





are you ready?????








Write your name and number on that remote transmitter with the words "Reward for Return" That way when you leave it somewhere a kid will call you instead of keeping it as a toy - you'll thank me oneday!!!


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## Mowingman

Great setup. Thanks for posting the photos. I already have gotten some ideas for setting up my tool box. One question. What do you use for ramps to load and unload the machine from the trailer? I did not see any ramps.
Jeff


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## gr8scott72

Mowingman said:


> Great setup. Thanks for posting the photos. I already have gotten some ideas for setting up my tool box. One question. What do you use for ramps to load and unload the machine from the trailer? I did not see any ramps.
> Jeff



Ramps slide in the back right side of the trailer. Guess that's about the only thing I didn't get pictures of.

I have a toolbox for the truck on the way. Actually, I already got it. It's sitting in my carport but the lid latch is broken and it won't open. They are supposed to send a replacement.

After the toolbox there is only one other thing I am going to get. I'm going to get a rolling/locking bed cover so I can put anything not locked in there in case I need to stop at Wal-mart or where ever.

Edit: In the picture that shows the chain welded to the frame under the license tag, you can see the rails for the ramps.


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## gr8scott72

Bigstumps said:


> Write your name and number on that remote transmitter with the words "Reward for Return" That way when you leave it somewhere a kid will call you instead of keeping it as a toy - you'll thank me oneday!!!



Thanks for the tip! I'm getting my label maker out right now.


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## dave k

Thought I would add a couple of pics of "Homer" well it's big yellow and always hungry for stumps !!!


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## gink595

Great looking professional outfit, very well thought out and placement of everything. I take it all the pictures are for insurance purposes?


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## gr8scott72

gink595 said:


> Great looking professional outfit, very well thought out and placement of everything. I take it all the pictures are for insurance purposes?



More just for me. I spent all afternoon cleaning the truck/trailer/grinder and wanted some good pictures to remember it all by.


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## Bigstumps

davek,

Are you grinding at night in a cemetary????:jawdrop:


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## D Mc

Scott, some fantastic ideas there, good job. 

Dave


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## B-Edwards

WOW did you see the owl that Big Homer carved????


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## dave k

Bigstumps, yes in a very large graveyard ! the contractors had run late with a 60ton crane dismantling the tree, monteray cypress, leaving me a 7'-8' stump about 2' high. What you don't see in pic is a fairly recent childs grave and it was felt it was better to get the job done in one day so not to cause any upset to parents of the child. On a lighter note, on that same job a few days earlier I took a phone call and as I was talking I put down the remote on a grave stone and walked away from it - it took over 20mins to find again ! I had carried on walking in a big circle as talking that taught me a lesson !

B edwards, you like my carving ? if only ! that was on a job a few weeks ago in Manchester England. About 2000 mature poplar trees were felled to prevent a virus spreading in the city's parks. I did almost 400 3' -4' stumps in 12 days and that was in the last park. a local guy had done about 8 carvings, owl, eagle, hedgehog etc they were fantastic only thing was some of the locals thought I was going to grind the carvings !


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## gr8scott72

Here's some more "in-action" pictures from recent days.










































I burned through 17 gallons of fuel that day in 8 hours. I did several large blow-overs and had the engine loaded down pretty good digging in that dirt.


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## gr8scott72

From today:







Bird's eye view. Got to grind from the kids playhouse. 










It's SOOO dusty right now. I guess tomorrow is bath, grease, and change out teeth day for Babe.


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## stihl sawing

An awesome machine, In the one pic it looks as if there was tornado damage.


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## gr8scott72

stihl sawing said:


> An awesome machine, In the one pic it looks as if there was tornado damage.



The last 4 days of grinding have all been from a tornado we had about 2.5 months ago. Still lots of damage around. I went door knocking and picked up about 10 hours of work.

edit: Every picture on here is from tornado damage.


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## Mowingman

Now that was a big stump. We don't see many like that around here.
Believe it or not, I actually did one about that size with my 1625 Rayco. It took me almost 7 hours. I bet your diesel did that one a lot quicker.
Jeff


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## stihl sawing

About how long does it take to grind a stump like the one in the pic.


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## stihl sawing

Dang, Just noticed your grinding up the root ball and all.


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## John464

Hey Scott,

I am having fun with my 7015 also. Wireless remote is great espcially with the dry dusty condition we have over here now. Put about 5hrs of grinding on her so far. Boy does it go through stump like nothing. Well worth it. I did a job today 7 large silver Maple stumps that would of took atleast 8hrs of grinding with the Vermeer and we were in and out in under 3hrs. It was hard for me to justify the purchase of a near $40,000 stump grinder, but the increased production appears to make it all worth it.

Hey have you checked your belts? I want to keep mine adjusted properly because I hear the ribbed belt is around $600 to replace and I dont really understand the operator's manual. Something about an acoutsic meter to measure tension. Any thoughts?

I just ordered from Carlton direct a few spare fuel filters, air filters and oil filters to keep up on maintenance.


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## gr8scott72

stihl sawing said:


> About how long does it take to grind a stump like the one in the pic.



The one in the last picture probably took me about 1.5 hours, root ball and all. That was one big pile of mulch when I got done.

One of the ones I did Saturday was about 48" across and almost 4' of trunk sticking out of the ground and the root ball was over 15' in diameter. It was a tornado blow-over that once cut, the trunk fell back into the whole but I still had to dig all those roots and dirt. That one took about 3 hours by itself. That one had a MASSIVE pile of mulch.  

I, too, have done one like the one I just described with my Rayco 1625 (27 horse) It was almost flush cut and didn't have near the root ball and it still took my about 10 hours over the corse of several days. (It was at my dad's house and there was no hurry.)


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## gr8scott72

John464 said:


> Put about 5hrs of grinding on her so far.



What you waiting for?!!?! Get that thing busy and dirty!

I've put over 20 hours on mine in this last week!


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## gr8scott72

gr8scott72 said:


>




To give you an idea of how big this one was, the home owner had used his 16" saw and cut as far in all the way around as he could and was still probably about 5" - 6" short of cutting that top section off.


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## Bigstumps

Watching you grind in shorts standing way out there makes me want a big remote machine even more!! I hate dust!!!


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## gr8scott72

Bigstumps said:


> Watching you grind in shorts standing way out there makes me want a big remote machine even more!! I hate dust!!!



Dust, yellow jackets, fire ants, just walk a little further away. 

Oh, and I have a stool to sit on while grinding also.


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## arbor pro

Can you get a beer can helmet with full ppe (face shield and muffs)??? As long as you're sitting there in shorts, you might as well have a cool brew to keep you comfortable.


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## gink595

arbor pro said:


> Can you get a beer can helmet with full ppe (face shield and muffs)??? As long as you're sitting there in shorts, you might as well have a cool brew to keep you comfortable.



LOL, As long as you have dust covers over the can openings, sure hate to ruin a good tasting beer with saw dust


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## SuperDuty335

gink595 said:


> LOL, As long as you have dust covers over the can openings, sure hate to ruin a good tasting beer with saw dust


.
That's the perfect combination, sir.


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## johncinco

Your set up looks real professional and organized. I hate to see some ramshackle looking mess pull up to my place to do some work. Shows great care and pride in your machinery, and will will extend to the work you do. Kudos. 

Does the trailer dump? 

I think the locks on everything are a good idea too, damn thieves will take anything now, even a shovel they arent able to operate!


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## gr8scott72

johncinco said:


> Your set up looks real professional and organized. I hate to see some ramshackle looking mess pull up to my place to do some work. Shows great care and pride in your machinery, and will will extend to the work you do. Kudos.
> 
> Does the trailer dump?
> 
> I think the locks on everything are a good idea too, damn thieves will take anything now, even a shovel they arent able to operate!



Thanks!

No, the trailer doesn't dump.

I actually am thinking about getting an Isuzu NRP or Mitsu Fuso with a small box on it for the gas mileage. My truck pulling the grinder gets 7.5 mpg.


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## gr8scott72

Well, here's an update on my tow vehicle. I've finished beefing up my Durango and now it's the only thing that drags Babe. (Time to sell the Ford.)

The Durango has the big 360 V8.

I had the tranny rebuilt back in Feb with clutch packs that are about 4 times bigger than stock. They actually had to machine the housing out to get all the guts to fit back in. It also has a shift kit and barks the tires anytime you get on it going into 2nd gear.

I had the rear gears swapped from 3.55:1 to 4.56:1. This was a HUGE improvement and I'll gladly take the mpg penalty for the acceleration advantage. It will tow the grinder, which with trailer and tools and fuel I figure to be just over 6,000 lbs, at 75 mph with the cruise on and never even downshift. I get about 11 mpg while towing in town or on the highway.

I had a leaf spring added to the rear.

Just put on Hawk Superduty brake pads up front.

Installed Bilstein HD shocks all the way around. (Stock shocks were TOAST at 104k miles.)

Battery took a dump last week and I put an Optima Red Top in it.

New tires this last week. Yokohama Geolander H/T-S in 265/75/15 size. GREAT ride now as far as smooth, quiet, and handling/braking.


Youtube video of Durango doing 0-70 mph empty



and here's the picture with it all cleaned up with the new tires:












Here's the rear view with the new fold-up ramps on the trailer. LOVE them.


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## stihl sawing

Really nice setup. does that durango pull all of it good.


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## gr8scott72

stihl sawing said:


> Really nice setup. does that durango pull all of it good.



It pulls it as strong if not stronger than that Ford. The Ford has the 7.5L V8 (460 ci)


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## stihl sawing

gr8scott72 said:


> It pulls it as strong if not stronger than that Ford. The Ford has the 7.5L V8 (460 ci)


That's pretty stout, Them old 460s had some pulling power. I really like the way you got the trailer set up.


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## Duffer

Here are a few pictures of my toys


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## arbor pro

Duffer,

Where'd you get the grapple trailer from and what did you have to give for it?

Do you find it was worth the money to get the grapple on the trailer vs hauling your mini skid along to load it?


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## Duffer

The Trailer is called a JMS I can load 9500 lbs in it safely. I use my 2500 to pull it. It can lift 2000 lbs next to the Trailer at half extension 1500lbs and at full 1200lbs I have lifted mu carton 2700 which is 1600lbs. it's not bad but if i had to do it again i would get a goose neck and axles of 10.000lbs now they are 8000lbs it's 14 ft box by6 wide 30 inch sides and 12 inch grill.


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## STLfirewood

gr8scott72 said:


> It's a 60 hp deutz air cooled 3 cylindar turbo diesel. New they are about $46k. I found this one with 162 hours on it for $29,500. Drove from Mississippi to Maryland to pick it up. 16 hours one way.



My friend has he same engine on his Carlton. Last year it went out. The engine only had 400-500 hours. They said there was a recall on the air box. He missed the deadline for having to have to have it changed. A new engine installed on the machine was a little over 9k. You might want to check on that. Just a heads up.

Scott


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## Duffer

How is the track mode , I lov the power my 7015 has. My is a 2006 it( that hurt) bought new but the only thing i find on the wheel model is the mulch is always push is front of the wheels and i am constantly have to move it or you will never get the same depth, do you know what i mean.


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## gr8scott72

Duffer said:


> How is the track mode , I lov the power my 7015 has. My is a 2006 it( that hurt) bought new but the only thing i find on the wheel model is the mulch is always push is front of the wheels and i am constantly have to move it or you will never get the same depth, do you know what i mean.




Mine has a similair problem but with being 800 lbs heavier than the wheeled version, I don't think it climbs the chips quite as much as yours.

I'm about to start using like a 4x4 or a 6x6 post to run over the machine with so that when it's up to the stump, the rear of the tracks is on the post and the machine is at a downward angle. That should get me a few more inches.


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## treeslayer

Scott has the best setup I've ever seen for a stump grinding operation. You have to see how he's done the compartments, he clearly thinks too hard.:jawdrop: 
A most professional looking rig, to say the least. Oh, yeah, and the Durango barks second gear with little prompting. WHILE pulling the trailer.

And Scott, who made them fine looking ramps?


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## gr8scott72

treeslayer said:


> Scott has the best setup I've ever seen for a stump grinding operation. You have to see how he's done the compartments, he clearly thinks too hard.:jawdrop:
> A most professional looking rig, to say the least. Oh, yeah, and the Durango barks second gear with little prompting. WHILE pulling the trailer.
> 
> And Scott, who made them fine looking ramps?



Tiny started them and my local welder guy finished them. (Tiny ran out of time and I had to get home in time for baby.)

DaveK has inspired me to put lights on "Babe" after seeing pictures of "Homer" and I'm working on that right now. I have some headlights from my old Infiniti J30. They are projector beam headlights and I'm spliting them out of the headlight housing and mounting the two high beams on top of the grinder and the 2 low beams are going on the Durango as fog lights.

I had it all weighed today. Heavier then I thought:

12,080 lbs - Durango and trailer/grinder
6,960 lbs - trailer/grinder
5120 - Durango (with me, 200 lbs of tools, and full tank of gas)


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## Mowingman

Scott,
Those lights may not survive long, as they are not designed to handle the constant shocks and vibration of a stump grinder. I have used rubber mounted tractor/implement lights. They are cheap at Tractor Supply, or other farm supply stores. I think you will get a lot better life out of them, than you would the headlights.
Jeff


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## gr8scott72

Mowingman said:


> Scott,
> Those lights may not survive long, as they are not designed to handle the constant shocks and vibration of a stump grinder. I have used rubber mounted tractor/implement lights. They are cheap at Tractor Supply, or other farm supply stores. I think you will get a lot better life out of them, than you would the headlights.
> Jeff




I'll keep that in mind. They were free tho and I find myself with a bunch of extra time right now so this project is keeping me busy. If they don't work, I'll use them to make lights for my trailer cause I want to do that also.


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## Blakesmaster

That Durango is pretty slick, but what do you do with your stump mulch now that your w/out a pickup?


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## gr8scott72

Blakesmaster said:


> That Durango is pretty slick, but what do you do with your stump mulch now that your w/out a pickup?



If and when I have to do clean up, the front of the trailer is boxed in and I can carry some mulch under the grinder blade.

I don't get many jobs that require clean up although I do offer it whenever I can to get more money.


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## arbor pro

gr8scott72 said:


> If and when I have to do clean up, the front of the trailer is boxed in and I can carry some mulch under the grinder blade.
> 
> I don't get many jobs that require clean up although I do offer it whenever I can to get more money.



Your trailer setup leads me to believe that you're a man who's about efficiency. Your trailer setup is indeed impressive. The only thing I don't agree with is the Durango. Why not sell the durango and buy a 3/4 ton with an 8' dump box? I pull my sc252 and mini skid behind my 1-ton dump. When I'm finished grinding a stump, I load the grindings directly into the pickup. Why shovel them back out when you can hoist them out in seconds?

If you look at how much time it takes to shovel in and shovel back out wood grindings -especially when you're doing big stumps - it would pay for you to get a dump. I would never go back to a standard pickup bed or load grindings onto a trailer - been there and done that and the dump is 100% the way to go if you're really wanting to be efficient about it.


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## gr8scott72

arbor pro said:


> Your trailer setup leads me to believe that you're a man who's about efficiency. Your trailer setup is indeed impressive. The only thing I don't agree with is the Durango. Why not sell the durango and buy a 3/4 ton with an 8' dump box? I pull my sc252 and mini skid behind my 1-ton dump. When I'm finished grinding a stump, I load the grindings directly into the pickup. Why shovel them back out when you can hoist them out in seconds?
> 
> If you look at how much time it takes to shovel in and shovel back out wood grindings -especially when you're doing big stumps - it would pay for you to get a dump. I would never go back to a standard pickup bed or load grindings onto a trailer - been there and done that and the dump is 100% the way to go if you're really wanting to be efficient about it.



All the stuff you mentioned takes money. None of which I have right now. Also, I really don't do many clean-up jobs.

I do want a skid. I'm thinking more of a ASV RC30 rather than a mini skid but like I said that takes money. I'd have to buy the skid, a larger trailer, a diesel,and a dump bed. I've also thought about just getting a dump trailer and the small skid steer and worst case, I would just have to make 2 trips if I needed to do clean-up.


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## arbor pro

gr8scott72 said:


> All the stuff you mentioned takes money. None of which I have right now. Also, I really don't do many clean-up jobs.
> 
> I do want a skid. I'm thinking more of a ASV RC30 rather than a mini skid but like I said that takes money. I'd have to buy the skid, a larger trailer, a diesel,and a dump bed. I've also thought about just getting a dump trailer and the small skid steer and worst case, I would just have to make 2 trips if I needed to do clean-up.



If nothing else, I'd still sell the Durango and buy apickup with a dump bed. Even if you pitch the grindings in by hand, at least you wouldn't have to unload them by hand. And itt wouldn't necessarily cost more money if you're selling one to buy another. A dependable 3/4 or 1-ton PU with hoist can easily be found for under $10k. You could put a flatbed and hoist on that ford of yours for $3k easy. Build the sides up with 2x12s, take along a 2x12 ramp and a wheelbarrow and ramp the stuff up into your pickup.

A mini will pay for itself once the cleanup jobs are there to support it. And it sure is easier to offer cleanup to a client knowing that it will only take a few minutes with a mini skid vs an hour with a pitchfork (and your back won't be aching afterwards).


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## B-Edwards

You guys missed a heck of a buy on a trx7015. One of these and a set-up like Scott has is a money maker.


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## Bigstumps

Where was the good buy??? I did miss it!


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## gr8scott72

Bigstumps said:


> Where was the good buy??? I did miss it!



In the Tradin' Post which apparently, nobody looks at.

http://www.arboristsite.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1724&cat=20


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## stumper63

You've still got a chance....

A 2008 7015TRX with 60 hours on it on EBay. No one has bid on it yet, ends in a couple of days. Starting bid is $25K. It's close to you in Florida.

Have fun bidding Bigstumps!

Stumper63


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## gr8scott72

stumper63 said:


> You've still got a chance....
> 
> A 2008 7015TRX with 60 hours on it on EBay. No one has bid on it yet, ends in a couple of days. Starting bid is $25K. It's close to you in Florida.
> 
> Have fun bidding Bigstumps!
> 
> Stumper63



He wants $30k to sell it.


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## stumper63

Wish I could put that thing in the shed!
Hopefully someone here will, $30K sounds like a pretty good price for that low of hours and current model year. Don't they want $40K for a new one?

Stumper63


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## gr8scott72

stumper63 said:


> Wish I could put that thing in the shed!
> Hopefully someone here will, $30K sounds like a pretty good price for that low of hours and current model year. Don't they want $40K for a new one?
> 
> Stumper63



I believe they are $46k new. :jawdrop:


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## Mowingman

This past spring, I was quoted right at $44,000.00, FOB the factory. They are probably a good bit more now.
Jeff


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## arborworks1

I need some filter numbers for the 7015. Specifically I need the air, oil and fuel filter numbers. Napa numbers would be great. Also is there a discount site to buy the sandvik teeth at? And the hydro filter if it ever got crossed into a napa number.


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## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> I need some filter numbers for the 7015. Specifically I need the air, oil and fuel filter numbers. Napa numbers would be great. Also is there a discount site to buy the sandvik teeth at? And the hydro filter if it ever got crossed into a napa number.



I haven't crossed the hydraulic filter yet but I do have the fuel and oil filters in the NAPA. I will look tomorrow and post back.

Which sandvik teeth do you have? Do they look like squares or diamonds? Just take one off and you'll see what I'm talking about. If they are diamond shape, you have to get them from Carlton. If they are the older square shape, I will get you a name of someone that can get them for you. Let me know.


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## arborworks1

They are square. Thanks for getting the filter numbers. Where do you get the air filters from?


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## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> They are square. Thanks for getting the filter numbers. Where do you get the air filters from?



Haven't had to yet. I was given a few extras when I bought the machine. I did save a page out of the tree trader magazine to a place that sold Carlton and other grinder parts. I'll have to find that page.

Call John, he can get the Sandvik teeth for you. He's a stump grinder in Florida and a Sandvik dealer. Good guy to deal with. 954-735-3830


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## stumper63

Scott,

Do you know how much John charges for square Sandvik teeth? New River is Equipment is $11.60 ea. plus shipping.

I wondered if New River was the only Sandvik show in town or not.....

Stumper63


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## gr8scott72

stumper63 said:


> Scott,
> 
> Do you know how much John charges for square Sandvik teeth? New River is Equipment is $11.60 ea. plus shipping.
> 
> I wondered if New River was the only Sandvik show in town or not.....
> 
> Stumper63



Same price but I think he told me that Sandvik just went up to $12 each.


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## arborworks1

Scott, did you get a chance to get the part numbers for the oil and fuel filters on your machine.


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## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> Scott, did you get a chance to get the part numbers for the oil and fuel filters on your machine.



Nope, forgot all about it. hehe

I'll go look right now.


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## gr8scott72

Oil filter is a NAPA 1342 and the screw on fuel filter is a NAPA 3358.


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## arborworks1

Thanks, I found out that the outer air is a napa 6836


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## gr8scott72

Here's some pictures of the lights I just added.

















This side is rock steady. I originally planned to only have it supported from this side but the opposite side was way too wobbly





So I had to make the support for this side. It still wobbles a little on this side and I'm thinking about putting some kind of rubber stopper under this side, resting on the intake manifold. (Like a bathroom door stopper.










I ran 1 10 gauge wire all the way to the control box:





Switch on right turns them on and I plan on putting a small label above the switch.





Seems to be plenty bright. I'll find out if it's bright enuf to grind with someday soon I'm sure as starting Sunday, it'll be dark by 5:15 pm.


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## gr8scott72




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## TimberMcPherson

I wonder if it could be used for rescue work in cases of fire in houses if doorways are blocked, bet it would make quick work of a wall. Boy would that crash a party!


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## Mowingman

That remids me of a stump I was recently called out to grind. A tree had actually grown so big, the homeowner had to cut out the wood siding of his house and frame in around the inside of the stump, to keep his exterior wall intact. I told him that in order to get all the stump I would probably end up cutting out part of his exterior wall. He said to do whatever it took to get all the stump gone. When my cutter wheel hit the wood siding, I had debris going everywhere. I cut one heck of a big hole in his house in no time. Much easier cutting than the stump.
Jeff


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## Treemann

*Grinding at nite!!*

A new market!! Instead of cremation we can grind your loved ones into the soil. Make compost. You have heard of Humus? HA! Now, we have to figure the pricing!


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## thejdman04

great looking machine


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## stumper067

*wheel*

how do you like the cutter wheel on the machine?


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## stumper067

*wheel*

does that cutter wheel preform as well as it is advertised?


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## B-Edwards

The Sandvik cutting system is the best I have used, low chip spread and still aggresive. I rate it a 10!!!!!


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## dave k

If you are refering to the Sandvik wheel ? then yes if you want good production with the least amount of problems i.e. broken pockets, worn pockets, less debris and safer grinding then yes the Sandvik is the only one until someone comes along with the next best thing ! If you are looking for a conversion kit speak to Dave Mathison at New River Equipment.

Scott,how are you getting on with the lamps you fitted ? I've just fitted two HID's up front after trialing one on the rear of my machine.


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## gr8scott72

stumper067 said:


> how do you like the cutter wheel on the machine?



For some reason, I didn't see your 2 posts on this thread until now.

The sandvik is GREAT!! Like DaveK said, chips are left close to hole, very few objects get launched out of the wheel, (rocks, etc,) great tooth life (I get about 15-20 hours before I have to sharpen/rotate), easy to change even in field, GREAT production, low drag while digging in the dirt. Even if I break one, I can usually still use it on the other side of the wheel.


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## gr8scott72

dave k said:


> Scott,how are you getting on with the lamps you fitted ? I've just fitted two HID's up front after trialing one on the rear of my machine.



I mounted them up and have had to change how I've mounted them a couple of times. Nothing like field testing something to see how it will last. I will have to do it one more time as all of my hardware rattled loose. I will be using lock washers and nylon locking nuts on everything this time.

I haven't really had a need for them yet but they are pretty bright. I do want to, at some point, mount a few more. I'm thinking 2 more foward and at least one to see behind the machine.


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## gr8scott72

I just finished a large job for the Mississippi State Hospital Saturday. It took 23.4 hours on the meter and about 30 hours total time. (The rest of the time was driving to the next stump.)

Most of the stumps were about 30" diameter and where cut 2.5' - 3' high. At least 90% where hardwood, mostly oak. There was a couple of sweetgums and a few pine stumps. There was supposed to be 71 stumps but I only found 69. I think the grounds keeper guy miscounted. I even checked them off the map they gave me as I did them.

Here is some pictures of the largest one. It was over 4' in diameter and almost as high as the machine with roots flaring out over probably 8' - 10' at ground level. It took me 1 hour and 31 minutes.
































Bid was for grinding 5" below grade with no clean-up. Security provided parking lot space blocking for the ones next to cars. I bid it VERY low as I really wanted the job as I am doing NOTHING right now. 

Anyone wanna guess how low VERY low is? Remember, it was 71 30" plus, mostly hardwood stumps scattered out over about 50 acres. The most at any one location was 5 stumps. Then I had to load it back on the trailer and drive to the next stump.


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## ASD

71 stumps,5" below grade no clean up $5,000 but we have an 8018


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## stihl sawing

Geez, That's a big ole stump and a hell of a lot of chips. Do you haul all them away.


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## gr8scott72

ASD said:


> 71 stumps,5" below grade no clean up $5,000 but we have an 8018



Way cheaper!


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## gr8scott72

stihl sawing said:


> Geez, That's a big ole stump and a hell of a lot of chips. Do you haul all them away.



No clean-up on this job. Grind and go. Chips stay where they lay.


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## pmoudy

How about $1500 is what it was cost here in AR where i live.


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## stihl sawing

I bet you was glad not to haul all them chips away, That would have been a task in itself.


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## gr8scott72

pmoudy said:


> How about $1500 is what it was cost here in AR where i live.



Almost right on the head. I bid $1476.


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## Mowingman

Wow, that is really low. That would be at least a $5000.00 job here. and, I would require they be cut off closer to the ground before I would grind them. I would charge an additional $50.00/stump if I had to grind them standing that high.
Jeff


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## gr8scott72

stihl sawing said:


> I bet you was glad not to haul all them chips away, That would have been a task in itself.



They had dump trucks, front end loader, and a crew of a dozen guys. One of the guy's apparent job description was back-pack blower starter. The only thing I saw him do was put the blower on the back of another guy then pull the cord. 

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## gr8scott72

Mowingman said:


> Wow, that is really low. That would be at least a $5000.00 job here. and, I would require they be cut off closer to the ground before I would grind them. I would charge an additional $50.00/stump if I had to grind them standing that high.
> Jeff



Well, I promise you wouldn't have got the job, even if I wasn't bidding. Some big time low-ballers here.

The way I figured it was that I'm not doing anything else and I figured it was about 20 hours of grinding. (spent more like 30 but whatever.) 20 hours came out to about 75/hour and that's good money to me when I'm not tied up with any other work.

This grinder usually makes me about $150/hour.


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## treeslayer

gr8scott72 said:


> One of the guy's apparent job description was back-pack blower starter. The only thing I saw him do was put the blower on the back of another guy then pull the cord.




thats the job for me scott!!


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## John464

the operational costs of running a machine like that with fuel, wear and tear(based on a $37,000 machine) for approx 24hrs should be around $25 an hour. Thats about $600 in expense not including your time. Job totaling 30hrs. You made approx $29 an hour.

I think you could of gotten a bit more for that job. The low ballers with their little 25hp grinders would of been upside down in profits on a large contract like that. Any idea on what the next highest bid was?


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## gr8scott72

John464 said:


> the operational costs of running a machine like that with fuel, wear and tear(based on a $37,000 machine) for approx 24hrs should be around $25 an hour. Thats about $600 in expense not including your time. Job totaling 30hrs. You made approx $29 an hour.
> 
> I think you could of gotten a bit more for that job. The low ballers with their little 25hp grinders would of been upside down in profits on a large contract like that. Any idea on what the next highest bid was?



I don't quite agree with your math but even if it is correct, $29 per hour beats $0 per hour!

I used about 40 gallons of fuel x $2.019 per gallon = $80.76, 2 sets of lead teeth ($3 each to sharpen x 20 = $60), probably $20-$30 in gas for the truck which totals $170 plus whatever the wear and tear on grinder/truck is. Call it a couple hundred and that's still under $400.

$1476 - $400 = $1076 / 30 hours = $35.87/hour

so you're pretty close but like I said, $35 per hour is better than nothing which is exactly what I was doing before that job and what I am doing now that it's done.

Oh, and nobody around here has 25 hp grinders. They just have 20 year old tow behinds that are about to fall apart. Same with their trucks.


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## B-Edwards

Same where I am at. You city guys, no offense would be in trouble in these rural areas. I am the only one around here that I have ever seen do a blow-over with a grinder. Most will leave it or a backhoe will jerk it out and fix it back cheaper than I can grind it. People here will spend $2.00 to save $1.00. Most businesses that will work in a suburban area will not work here and I am thinking where Scott is is very similar to here although very flat and warm right now. I used to line-up work that I knew I wouldn't make any money on just to keep my guys work, they were the only ones who would profit on the job. You do that in areas like this or you don't exist. I know you are thinking I would leave that area, you might and you might not . It is home and there are benefits to living in an area like this. Not arguing just saying it's tough in these hills as most that live here either don't care about what a stump looks like or will dig it out by hand ( I aint lieing). Try competing with that with a 50k machine.


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## stumper067

*Track or not*

Scott, I have been in the stump biz for 28 years part time just up the road here in Mississippi.(Columbus). I recently had back surgery and sold my Carlton, over the years I have always owned Carltons...but I have never owned a tracked Carlton, always a pull behind. I will be in the market for a new Carlton self propelled wheeled or track machine in the spring...My question to you and other members, will a tracked machine out preform a 4x4 self propelled wheeled unit. Can you get proper depth with a tracked machine?? What if a tracked machine quits running? Can it still be moved to another location? I understand the debate over less damage/more damage to yards and such (I own a tracked Kanga) but I am mainly interested in the machine preformance issue....

Thanks for replies:
Stumper067


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## bombdude

gr8scott72 said:


> Almost right on the head. I bid $1476.



Wow Scott, that is cheap. It wouldn't be 5k here, but I would bid between 2-2500.

We got the same problem here. Guys towing crappy machines behind crappy trucks, and bidding super low prices over the phone.

But, at the same time, my phone has all but stopped ringing, so you gotta give a little I guess.


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## gr8scott72

stumper067 said:


> Scott, I have been in the stump biz for 28 years part time just up the road here in Mississippi.(Columbus). I recently had back surgery and sold my Carlton, over the years I have always owned Carltons...but I have never owned a tracked Carlton, always a pull behind. I will be in the market for a new Carlton self propelled wheeled or track machine in the spring...My question to you and other members, will a tracked machine out preform a 4x4 self propelled wheeled unit. Can you get proper depth with a tracked machine?? What if a tracked machine quits running? Can it still be moved to another location? I understand the debate over less damage/more damage to yards and such (I own a tracked Kanga) but I am mainly interested in the machine preformance issue....
> 
> Thanks for replies:
> Stumper067



I love the tracks. I think they allow me to get to places that wheeled units can't.

The depth isn't really a problem for me.

If it dies, no, it is stuck where it sits.


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## stumper067

*Thanks*

1. love the tracks. I think they allow me to get to places that wheeled units can't.

2. The depth isn't really a problem for me.

3. If it dies, no, it is stuck where it sits.


Scott, I'm good on issue 1&2, but If "if it dies it is stuck where it sits"
it would kill my sole to leave a 45,000 machine alone on a vacant lot or even in a customer's yard for any amount of time....looks like they would install a relieve valve or something so at least it could be pulled upon a trailer with a winch....
thanks for the reply

stumper067


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## gr8scott72

stumper067 said:


> 1. love the tracks. I think they allow me to get to places that wheeled units can't.
> 
> 2. The depth isn't really a problem for me.
> 
> 3. If it dies, no, it is stuck where it sits.
> 
> 
> Scott, I'm good on issue 1&2, but If "if it dies it is stuck where it sits"
> it would kill my sole to leave a 45,000 machine alone on a vacant lot or even in a customer's yard for any amount of time....looks like they would install a relieve valve or something so at least it could be pulled upon a trailer with a winch....
> thanks for the reply
> 
> stumper067



Call Carlton and ask. It might and I just might not be aware of it.


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## stumper067

*Took your advice and called Carlton....*

Well, good advice when you don't know call...so I did......Carlton advised that there is no way to move the track machine unless you have an on site crane....this would steer me toward a wheeled unit even though a track unit might be better under some conditions.....


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## Treemann

*Tracks of my Tears*

[I agree, tracked units are over built over complicated to work on, NOT as maneuverable as a Rg-50. Tracks are fine for a bull dozer. I have tested Carlton, and Vermeer. Track drives are just not for stump grinders that go through gates, and down landscape paths. My RG-50 has two drive wheels and I have never, not been able to get where I am going. I can even use the wheel boom to pick up the front of the machine to place it in tight spots...........NOW, if my machine weighed 5000 pounds?, maybe. Way, too expensive too. Not to offend anyone out there. You get the job done too. I should put a smiley face on this, but...............


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## gr8scott72

Treemann said:


> [I agree, tracked units are over built over complicated to work on, NOT as maneuverable as a Rg-50. Tracks are fine for a bull dozer. I have tested Carlton, and Vermeer. Track drives are just not for stump grinders that go through gates, and down landscape paths. My RG-50 has two drive wheels and I have never, not been able to get where I am going. I can even use the wheel boom to pick up the front of the machine to place it in tight spots...........NOW, if my machine weighed 5000 pounds?, maybe. Way, too expensive too. Not to offend anyone out there. You get the job done too. I should put a smiley face on this, but...............



Wait a minute. Too expensive? Have you priced the RGs recently?

I can and often do pick the front of the machine up to reposition it also. Very easy even with a 4,000 (not 5,000) lbs machine.

The Carlton is only 1,000 lbs heavier than the RG and is spread out over the entire track where as the RG's weight is all on 6 spots. I bet the ground PSI is the same or even lower on the Carlton.

There have been a few spots I've been in that a wheels machine would've been a pain having to go back and forth, back and forth (and a few spots not big enuf to even do that) where as with the tracks you can turn on a dime and spin in place.

And I don't care which is better in the wheel/track argument, I will NEVER use another grinder without a remote.

I also prefer the direct belt drive of the Carlton over the Hydro drive of the Rayco.


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## Mowingman

I have a Bandit track machine, and I don't think I would ever go back to a rubber tire machine. Also, Carlton is wrong. You can tow any hydraulic machine if there is an emergency that requires it. All you have to do is disconnect the hydrauic hoses that power the travel motors. Cap them so you do not leak oil, then, tow the machine. The motors will turn freely and you will not harm them if you are just towing a short distance, like out of a yard and onto a trailer.
I have done this many times to hydro drive mowers, and even to large track hoes.
Jeff


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## epicklein22

Treemann said:


> [I agree, tracked units are over built over complicated to work on, NOT as maneuverable as a Rg-50. Tracks are fine for a bull dozer. I have tested Carlton, and Vermeer. Track drives are just not for stump grinders that go through gates, and down landscape paths. My RG-50 has two drive wheels and I have never, not been able to get where I am going. I can even use the wheel boom to pick up the front of the machine to place it in tight spots...........NOW, if my machine weighed 5000 pounds?, maybe. Way, too expensive too. Not to offend anyone out there. You get the job done too. I should put a smiley face on this, but...............



We have a couple rayco stumpers at my work. While they grind pretty [email protected] good, a lot is left to be desired. If it isn't 4 wheel drive, forget about it. Our 4 wheel drive RG-50 is weak and spins easily. If it rains any amount, you are in for sliding on any decent grade. I can't even imagine a 2wd. While I have never used a remote, I can see the pluses and minuses. While it would be really nice to stand back away from the dust and the flying objects, along with being able to stand where ever you want; how can you make sure you are getting everything without being close up to look? Using the Rayco, if the shield is clean, I can see everything that is going on. Tracks may be nice for certain situations, but it isn't the end all be all. I think this argument can relate to skidsteers, tracks or wheels? Each setup has it's advantages.


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## gr8scott72

epicklein22 said:


> We have a couple rayco stumpers at my work. While they grind pretty [email protected] good, a lot is left to be desired. If it isn't 4 wheel drive, forget about it. Our 4 wheel drive RG-50 is weak and spins easily. If it rains any amount, you are in for sliding on any decent grade. I can't even imagine a 2wd. While I have never used a remote, I can see the pluses and minuses. While it would be really nice to stand back away from the dust and the flying objects, along with being able to stand where ever you want; how can you make sure you are getting everything without being close up to look? Using the Rayco, if the shield is clean, I can see everything that is going on. Tracks may be nice for certain situations, but it isn't the end all be all. I think this argument can relate to skidsteers, tracks or wheels? Each setup has it's advantages.



Each does has its advantages but after using both a wheeled and non-remote grinder, I think the tracks and remote wins out in more situations than not.


----------



## Mowingman

gr8scott72 said:


> Each does has its advantages but after using both a wheeled and non-remote grinder, I think the tracks and remote wins out in more situations than not.



I agree 100%. That is why I recently sold my Rayco 1625. The Bandit with tracks and remote does everything I need it to do, and in ground conditions where the Rayco would have buried to the frame.
Jeff


----------



## Treemann

*Tracks, wheels*

Yeah, I guess it's all about what you likle the best. AND, I think it's about what part of the country you work in. Colorado is really arid and the soils are dry. I can take my RG-50 two wheel into the Rockies and get great traction. If I were in the Eastern states I might want tracks. It's like Art, or ####, you know it when you see it. A remote would be nice!


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## arborworks1

I think the tracks are the best setup for my area. After all the rain we have had I would have never thought about taking a wheeled grinder into places the tracks go and don't leave a mark. Plywood for a 90 degree spin in a nice yard. 

Up and down hills and chip piles no worries.


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## MOE

bombdude said:


> Wow Scott, that is cheap. It wouldn't be 5k here, but I would bid between 2-2500.
> 
> We got the same problem here. Guys towing crappy machines behind crappy trucks, and bidding super low prices over the phone.
> 
> But, at the same time, my phone has all but stopped ringing, so you gotta give a little I guess.



I'm that guy with the crapy tow behind and an old truck. Yes, a big self propelled machine would be great but there just isn't enough work to support it. I am still able to make $100-$150 an hour but the jobs can be far between at times. I live in a semi rural area that many people don't care if there are stumps in there lawn. They might put a flower pot or bird feeder on it and forget about it. There is a rayco RG 50 and a few 252's in my area. I use a big tow behind,(rayco 1665AC) because it is cheap horsepower. It is old and keeping it going can be a headache but it but the overhead is certainly lower. Most of the stumps I do are larger oak, willow, cottonwood, ash and elm. most of the jobs I do are in larger lots where I am able to manuvere in place without too much trouble. One advantage I do notice with a tow behind is that the chips are all contained in a nice pile. for me and the amount of work It was a cheaper way to get big HP without payments. If the workload changes, then I will certainly look at a big self propelled.


----------



## Treemann

*Tow behind*

You got the right idea. I tried to do stumps in Virginia close to the Weast Virginia line. It doesn't matter how ugly your machine is. If you have it all paid for, you can charge what you want. Back in the day, here in Colorado, I had a big list of Landscapers, tree services, construction companies etc, and I was always two weeks behind. BUT! That was back in the day. To hell with buying new machines. Fix the old ones. They are built like B-52s just keep them going.


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## stumper067

*over the years*

Over the last 29+ years or so I have cut stumps part time, I recently had back surgery and sold out for the time being...having said that, all of those years cutting stumps, I never made an abundance of excess money... it was always a struggle but I continued to do it because I like doing it...Here in Mississippi I don't think you could make a solid living and run your business right (insurance, license and such) without offering some kind of additional service such as tree or landscaping. I have always used new machines, buying several over the years..but think about today if you buy one of those new 42,000 Carltons then pay for insurance,truck,trailer...man you are forced to beg for work and then all of a sudden you don't enjoy what your doing anymore...plus there is all ways the guy around the corner with no insurance and a broke down machine ready to underbid you...just my opinion but I cut stumps because I really enjoy the type of work, I don't think any of us will ever get close to rich....and If anyone out there has gotten rich just cutting stumps, I stand corrected...(just my opinion) thanks,


----------



## bombdude

we got a local guy here that bids $15/stump over the phone sight unseen. He's the crappy truck/machine, no insurance, get there in 6 months & do a poor job guy that I was referring to in my post. But he gets work b/c he's cheap.

Moe, I have no issue with your set up. Matter of fact, I've considered an older big machine for the extra hp. I currently run a 352. Lower overhead does give you more breathing room in your pricing. However, these super cheap guys that are "whoring up the market" as i've heard it referred to on here in the past makes it tough for somebody to be competitive.

Stumper067, I haven't been at it nearly as long as you, but your description is very similar to what i've found in the past year & a half.


----------



## stumper067

*maybe it's time*

Maybe it's time those that take our business seriously, trying to please customers and do a professional job, form an association such as NSRA or NSSA (national stump removal assoc.) or the (National stump service assoc.) This assoc. could somewhat standardize rates that everyone could use as a loose guideline and that could be adjusted to different areas of the country. This assoc. could also test and experiment new equipment even receiving discounts for it's members. I can think of hundreds of ways this assoc. could be helpful to its members but most of all we could meet and talk about new and different ideals. The pubic, once they saw an assoc. sticker or insignia would know they are dealing with professionals who take their service seriously. The assoc. could have and elected leaders and a small yearly membership fee to keep it going.........would any one else be interested in something like this??


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## arbor pro

Forming an association of professionals can't do any harm but, I doubt that you'll ever have any success at standardizing pricing without either 1) unionizing the trade or 2) getting the government further involved. I don't like either idea and I don't think there is a viable solution to getting rid of lowball pricing. As someone who provides both tree care and stump grinding services, I believe the main problem facing the stump grinding industry is simply that stump grinding is not a highly technical trade. Most any homeowner can rent a small stump grinder and do the work him or herself with a relatively small learning curve. Unless a removal job requires a specialty machine which can't be obtained through a rental store, we, as stump grinding professionals, are simply offering our clients the convenience of not having to rent the machine and do it themselves. Many of those homeowners have realized how easy it is to do and have purchased their own machines with the intention of making a few side bucks or, in some cases, to dream of getting rich my going into the trade full-time. 

I don't mean to offend anyone on this site but, the simple truth is that stump grinding is a very basic blue collar profession. I do both white collar and blue collar work and I have no problem with either type. I'm simply saying that stump grinding requires very little training or experience to break into. It's a profession where having little or no practical experience is not a problem so long as you have $5-10k to buy a used grinder. Stump grinding is just not that hard to do and, so long as machines are plentiful, it will never bring the bread and butter that specialized tree care services have the potential to bring - especially during tough economic times where so many people are looking for side jobs to bring in extra money. 

Look at the guys who are still trying to make a living by offering just skid steer services and nothing else. Twenty years ago, before every contractor and farmer owned one, a guy with a 643b bobcat could actually make a living just by sitting in the seat of his loader and leveling dirt or drilling post holes all day. That's all he had to do - sit on his butt and move some dirt or clean out a livestock barn. Now, anyone can get his hands on a skid steer and do the work himself so long as it's not real technical in nature. The machines are getting easier and easier to operate. The same goes for stump grinders. 

Time will never go backwards. Stump grinding is not what it was 20 years ago and it never will be again. It's time to deal with the changing times and either accept it for what it is or find another trade to get into. Neither certification nor membership to the NSRA is going to bring back the yesteryears.


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## B-Edwards

I sell firewood although this may be my last year as all my wood came from the tree service. Even at that it was tough to make any money. I went through our small town this morning and I have never seen in my 45 years in this place all of the firewood for sale. There are pick-up trucks small dump trucks and different kinds of trailers all with firewood for sale. Most of my customers are high end and only burn for the atmosphere not necessarily for heat and I always took them nice clean seasoned and firm wood. Most of the other firewood sellers sold green or half rotten wood so I think I am solid if I decide to keep selling it. My point is that I agree that when work can be done by most anyone then anyone will try it and keep (your) profit down. I think if you do great fair priced work you will be ok and that seems to be what Scott has offered.I don't care what it is I am doing as far as offering a service, I try to be the best.


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## Oly's Stump

I agree with Arbor Pro. To be full time in the stump grinding business you need to offer other services to stay afloat. I currently offer log removal for the local tree services. I also now sell firewood. I also have contractors that hire me to clear lots for building. I snow plow commercial lots during the winter slow time which hopefully pays the bills. These services usually keeps me busy full time. As for these low ball stump grinders in my area, it is just a matter of time and they go out of business. I lost count on how many came and gone. Their old machnies take a dump and they cannot afford to repair them. Most of my work is with tree service's and I am fair with them and they know about what I want when they bid their jobs. I bill them once a month. I do the job right and never have been called back to re-do a job.


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## arbor pro

You guys touched on the two keys to staying afloat today: 1) diversification or specialization and 2) professionalism/customer service.

Diversification will help keep you afloat when lowballers enter into one of your service areas by enabling you to focus your efforts on another service sector. If you are specialized - in that you and very few others like you are able to provide a certain service that the general public is unable to do themselves, then you will always have a leg up on someone who is unable to perform the task without first obtaining licensing, training or accreditation.

Professionalism and customer service will help to prevent your better clients from even considering the lowballers in the first place. I have had enough bad experiences with mechanics, plumbers, etc that, when I find one that does an exceptional job at customer service, i will often stay with that company even if his prices are a bit higher than the competition. That is - until he slacks off on customer service or if he knowingly tries to overcharge me.


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## ibadvanced

Got to throw me two cents in here. Been in the stump grinding biz full time for 15 years now and it general is better every year. Not gettin rich, but making a livin. It really boils down to time and good decisions. Building a strong customer base and knowing how to deal with people are essential. Most of jobs don't require me to give bids, they just tell me to come do it, which means no competition. They know I will treat them fair. Seen a lot of stump grinders come and go over the years and some just hang around and linger. You are right, it dosn't take many smarts to buy a machine and make a couple bucks and your not going to build a business just anywhere, sometimes it's just not there. Old machine or new machine, it still boils down to good business and time. Sorry to ramble and all misspells, but in a hurry.


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## MOE

In this area, (central MN) all of the stump grinders I know, including me. have another job and do it on the side. It's been a decent sideline for me but I can't see how it would work full time in this area. There just isn't enough work. The biggest issue around here that stumps really don't bother some people. I notice the economy is effecting it as well. Having stumps ground out is a luxury, house payments come first. I haven't changed my bidding. I'm not getting as many jobs; a lot of the jobs I miss aren't getting done by anyone. 
Somekind kind of a standard rate would be nice but I don't see it working here. I'm willing to leave my stump grinder sit instead of working cheap. It's paid for and I have a full time job. The next guy may be living hand to mouth and do it cheap. It's a free market and I think that's the what the near future will be like.


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## stumper067

*somewhere between white and blue collar*

With all sincerity and respect arbor pro you have some good points, but I disagree on a few. I think running a stump removal business takes experience and skill...first being a good business man and second not tearing up a very expensive equipment setup and the customer's property. It's true a 10 year old could run the machine but would he know to check for underground dangers? Would he know how to repair the machine (which most of us must do to stay in business) Would he be good at promoting and advertising to stay a float. Would he know how to deal with the tax folk and such...?? I think it takes someone with a dream, some training, and a little common knowledge to run just about any kind of business no matter if it be a brain surgeon or stump cutter...."always opinion not fact"
Thanks,


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## arbor pro

stumper067 said:


> With all sincerity and respect arbor pro you have some good points, but I disagree on a few. I think running a stump removal business takes experience and skill...first being a good business man and second not tearing up a very expensive equipment setup and the customer's property. It's true a 10 year old could run the machine but would he know to check for underground dangers? Would he know how to repair the machine (which most of us must do to stay in business) Would he be good at promoting and advertising to stay a float. Would he know how to deal with the tax folk and such...?? I think it takes someone with a dream, some training, and a little common knowledge to run just about any kind of business no matter if it be a brain surgeon or stump cutter...."always opinion not fact"
> Thanks,



Stumper,

It indeed does take some brains to be able to be successful in any business - whether it be stump grinding or building construction. I'm not saying that all stump grinding businessmen are dumb blue collar blokes. I'm a stump grinding businessmans as well as an arborist. On the contrary, I think a lot of blue collar service sector men and women are highly educated, highly motivated individuals - the backbone of our county. 

The problem with stump grinding is that it requires little or no previous experience and a fairly small bankroll to get up and running. As a result, there are a lot of very dumb, lazy, unprofessional blokes who come into the business thinking they're going to get rich quick without having to work very hard. Granted, most of these blokes go out of business in a relatively short time-frame but not before doing their damage to the industry by acting unprofessionally and lowballing jobs. 

Over time, homeowners who deal with these blokes get the impression that anyone can grind out a stump; therefore, why pay more than the lowest bid given? They don't think about whether or not he's insured or whether he has located the utilities. They don't don't know what to expect for lawn damage and just assume that the stump grinder operator will clean up after himself. If he does a poor job, they might not hire him again and, likely they don't care if he goes out of business because some other bloke will soon take his place and probably be cheaper yet. 

I don't like it anymore than anyone else but, that's just how it is. We can try to kid ourselves my making it sound like grinding a stump is hard to do but, it's not. Like you said, a 10-year-old can do it. However, running a successful stump grinding business in the wake of lowballing newbies entering the industry, now that's a different story. That's not so easy to do. That takes fortitude and business sense. Kudos to those of you who are making it happen.


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