# Do We Have To Be Certified



## stihlgotwood (Jan 9, 2007)

DO WE HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED ARBORISTS to do good tree work. the reason i ask is cause i'm new to this site and i've learned alot already and i would like to know if the certified guys look down on non-cert. I've been cutting and climbing for about 12 years-learned from a guy from P.E.I. and took some small coarses here and there, safety is first and i love to do a great job. When i'm done and driving away from a job i always look back to make sure it's sweet just like-(if you love your truck) you would when you park your truck and your walking into a store you always look back.


STIHL 009 (4)
034
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088 (2)
and the ultra handy stihl pole-saw


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## MarsCrash (Jan 9, 2007)

I worked for five years before getting my certification, and my work did not magically get better afterwards. Studying for the certification does make you learn things you might not have known otherwise, but it doesn't make you a better climber or guarantee all of your cuts are perfect. 

In other words, it doesn't stop you from screwing up, you just know how and why a little bit better. Also, you can use fancy terms when you try to blame it on the ground guy.


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 9, 2007)

*My view*

I believe that being certified is a good starting point. This is the type of profession where you NEVER stop learning. Studying for and passing a CA exam is the first big step. Good luck!


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## alanarbor (Jan 9, 2007)

You don't have to be certified to do good work. 

However, certification does help you keep up with whats new in the industry, and it lends a lot of credibility to you as an arborist and a professional.

In some municipalites, certification may be required to work in the area, or do municipal work.


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## NYCHA FORESTER (Jan 9, 2007)

stihlgotwood said:


> DO WE HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED ARBORISTS to do good tree work. the reason i ask is cause i'm new to this site and i've learned alot already and i would like to know if the certified guys look down on non-cert. I've been cutting and climbing for about 12 years-learned from a guy from P.E.I. and took some small coarses here and there, safety is first and i love to do a great job.



There are a lot of great tree workers (including ground people) that are not ISA Certified. Too many people get hung up on whether or not a person passed a test. "Good tree work" is a relative term that could mean a lot of things do different people (client, Boss, and OSHA for example). 

When a person gives me their business card and it says ISA Arborist or Board Certified yada yada yada... they are implying that they understand tree biology and the living system that a tree requires to sustain itself (at a minimum). That the recommendations they make are based on their understanding of tree biology and that the work that is recommended is necessary to preserve or improve the over all health of the tree. 

Yes, Safety, PHC, ID, etc........ are part of the package but identifying yourself as a CA means you understand tree biology AND your recommendation are based on the science of Arboriculture and experience not your need to sell another $5,000 this week.


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## stihlgotwood (Jan 9, 2007)

*Poor Quality Tree Work*



TreeCo said:


> You certainly don't have to be an ISA Certified Arborist to good tree work but if you don't know enough about trees to pass this basic certification then you most likely are doing very poor quality tree work.



These kind of replies are what i am looking for. I do believe i am doing great tree work, i read as much as i can and am always trying to improve my tree work. Time is a factor for me, as i do have a full time job, though my tree work could be full time. 

I have always wanted to be certified and believe i should be if i am to be giving people sound advise on the trees that they love. With my busy schedule, what do you think is the best way to start? and how can i get the best up to date info on the industry? (i.e. subscribe to mags or join a group)

Like i said in the begining, these replies are what i'm looking for. The problem i have is that the above quote seems to be a contradiction-at first you say you "certainly" don't have to be cert., but then you say if a person doesn't have this very "basic" cert. then he or she is most likely doing very poor quality tree work.

Thanx for all the info and can't wait to hear more.


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## NickfromWI (Jan 9, 2007)

I don't look down on people just because they are not certified....I only look down on them if they do crappy or unsafe work.

love
nick


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## Ekka (Jan 9, 2007)

Get atleast ISA certified. Study in your own time then sit the test.

If you are going to get around trying to tell everyone you are a good treeman and know what you are doing then get a piece of paper that helps says so. Saves a lot of time trying to explain yourself.

There is a lot more to being a good arborist than climbing trees you know. Here in lies the second problem. whilst at Mrs Smiths house she asks what is wrong with her ??? azalea, camelia, fruit tree etc........

............ Straight off the bat you lose credibility by not ID'ing correctly, no diagnosing topographical factors, selecting wrong ropes and techniques, chemicals etc. If you are out there giving advice on tree care then you definately need some paperwork. You need to know how the tree functions and explain that in clear language to the client.

Yesterday I did a wham bam consultation, $80 including 1 hour of chat/work. I just treated with a drench a few majestic palms for a lady that had spent a small fortune on products from the nursery and scorched the leaves rather badly on a number of cycads to. They had her spraying every 2 weeks all palms and cycads with confidor (Imidacloprid). What for? Oh they were yellowing and the leaves of the palms were falling off detaching at the petiole, even the green ones.

So knowledge helps. I dont know what the ISA thing offers, we have a comprehensive training program that's different but knowledge never hurts.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 9, 2007)

You don't have to be certifiabley crazy to climb; but it helps!


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## beowulf343 (Jan 9, 2007)

stihlgotwood said:


> DO WE HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED ARBORISTS to do good tree work.



No. 



stihlgotwood said:


> I would like to know if the certified guys look down on non-cert.



Yes.
I'm speaking as a guy who refuses to get his certification and works with 2 ca's on a regular basis. But they look down on me because I do mostly removals-they keep telling me that a real arborist conserves trees, not cuts them down. I keep telling them I'm not an arborist.


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## Quercus34 (Jan 9, 2007)

The ISA certifications test knowledge and not skill (other than Tree Worker). Just because someone knows the correct way to do something does not mean that they will do it.

The other side is that many people look for the certification before they hire someone to do a job. Where I am you can't even bid on our work unless there is a CA on staff and they must be on site while any tree work is being done. If you are serious about this business the certification is worth the investment.


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## treeseer (Jan 9, 2007)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> You don't have to be certifiabley crazy to climb; but it helps!


I'm certified and certifiable. :jester: 

I look down on myself more than anyone when I fail to do things as well as I could, which is often.  
It pains me to see that some guys would rather cut valuable trees down than keep them growing just because cutting takes less trouble than giving the tree what it needs to stay safe and strong. 
Look around your town, look at the globe, feel it warming and storming more than ever before. We need more trees, not less, to have a world fit for our kids to live in.

Certification is a great start in learning how to manage trees. If removal is all someone wants to do, if they do it safely and ethically, without BSing tree owners into fearing their trees, that's up to them. There will always be a need for good removal technicians.

"I have always wanted to be certified and believe i should be if i am to be giving people sound advise on the trees that they love." I believe that too.


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## clearance (Jan 9, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good one, beowolf, I don't like being called an arborist (even though my trade cert. says utility arborist (no, not the gay ISA utlity cert., the real deal) because it then associates me with all sorts of people, some excellent treeguys, some useless and some worse than that. So treeguy is just fine.   :notrolls2: :deadhorse:


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## polingspig (Jan 10, 2007)

*Titles and Pieces of Paper*

I am going to get Certification as soon as I can, but only because it will help with the customer base. I've been around long enough to know that pieces of paper and titles do not make people good at their jobs. I learned that as an enlisted man in the AF. Some of the Officers (and NCOs) were just stupid. It's the same way in all areas of life. I am a minister and sometimes I want to run from preachers with degrees, even though I've been to Bible College myself.
So, here is the Bible lesson for today. God Himself makes His judgment of a person's usefulness based on individual merit. Examples--- Peter was a fisherman from the backside of the lake who even used "rough language". Paul was a "classically trained" Pharisee with all the right letters and degrees from the religious hierarchy. Both wrote parts of the Bible. 
That is the way things should be. But I think that in America today Peter would have to work for Paul because of the degrees no matter what Jesus said. That's why I am going to get the Cert. 
Moral--- pieces of paper mean squat to tell how diligently and carefully a man will work, but sometimes they decide if a man will have an opprtunity to work in the first place.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 10, 2007)

I've never gotten certified, but that's only because it won't change my business a bit. No one has ever asked me if I'm certified. Most people if you ask them, What is an Arborist? they probably don't even know. 

I enjoy actively studying for the exam and should probably take it some day.

Getting certified comes after becoming an ISA member. Then becoming a member of the ISA state or territory charter. You get educational materials sent as a result of your membership and are invited to be part of the state and international meetings and conferences. You have a pipeline to the current research and goings-on in our industry at levels other than your own, e-mail links and magazines to further your learning. In other words, even a solo cat can become part of the industry in a more connected manner by being included in something much bigger than himself (or herself!)

I've recently learned this, what the benefits of ISA membership are, and what's to gain from my Indiana charter membership. Between those two, and my TCIA membership, I get a lot of printed material every month to read. In addition to walking around the halls of Arboristsite and going out and practicing treecare every working day, it's pretty much total immersion.

In a way, I do feel like after 14 years of full-time practice as a treeguy, I probably shoulda gotten my _Certified Arborist_ by now. But I'm lame, I have only shallow excuses on why I haven't.


Here's a PDF for an actual Arborist Association Annual Conference: http://www.indiana-arborist.org/Temp/2007AnnualConf.pdf


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## treeseer (Jan 10, 2007)

polingspig said:


> Moral--- pieces of paper mean squat to tell how diligently and carefully a man will work, but sometimes they decide if a man will have an opprtunity to work in the first place.


Totally true, and a great analogy that even this non-Christian can appreciate.

TreeMachine, you will be motoring like never before now that you are plugged into ISA. I know that you are the kind of guy who will put good energy into it, so you will get good energy out of it.


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## Bermie (Jan 10, 2007)

So how often do the ISA magazines come out? I joined last August and have only had one scientific journal arrive in the mail since then.


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## treeseer (Jan 10, 2007)

Bermie said:


> So how often do the ISA magazines come out? I joined last August and have only had one scientific journal arrive in the mail since then.


Fiona I would get on the membership dept about that. [email protected]. Arborist News came out in December and the AUF journal should be out in January. They alternate, so you should be getting something every month.


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## toscottm (Jan 11, 2007)

*Continuing Education: Certification*

Stihlgotwood,

A very successful uncle gave me advice with a simple question when I graduated high school. He asked, "what is the most important thing we do in life". After about 20 'wrong' (but probably still good) answers, he finally suggested that learning is most important. I immediately recognized this to be a valuable suggestion and haven't found reason to disagree some many years later. In fact, I've come to believe that indeed this is quite true. The day we stop learning is hopefully the day we are buried. If we stop learning earlier, it would be quite the shame - after all, what else would be the point of the rest of our lives?

An observation I've had is that there is always much more to learn. Even as a (self-professed) leading expert in what I do, it is noticed every day that so much is still to be discovered. It is this that is so inspiring and stimulating. Here is very wise quote from The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran:

"Say not, I have found the truth, but rather, I have found a truth".

We never know it all. It is learning and discovery that helps us to grow and become more tomorrow than who we are today. Without that as a goal, what else is the purpose of life?

Anyway, there's my philosophical opinion in response to your question!

Best Wishes!

Scott


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## stihlgotwood (Jan 11, 2007)

*In the same boat*



Tree Machine said:


> I've never gotten certified, but that's only because it won't change my business a bit. No one has ever asked me if I'm certified. Most people if you ask them, What is an Arborist? they probably don't even know.
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you where a cert. would not change my bus. a bit but i'm sure make me feel better - so i will be joining ISA very soon.
> ...


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## toscottm (Jan 11, 2007)

*Your Question: What is TCIA Membership*

Stihlgotwood,

TCIA is the Tree Care Industry Association. (see www.treecareindustry.org)

Here in Ontario you should look to the Ontario Commercial Arborists Association (see: http://www.isaontario.com/OCAA/index.php) which is the sister group to the International Society of Arboriculture (Ontario Chapter) that serves those in the business of tree service. Call Sue Potter at the ISAO office for more information. Her number is 1-888-463-2316.

Another good source of education is Arboriculture Canada Training & Education. (see: www.arborcanada.com)

Hope this is of help!

Scott


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## Tree Machine (Jan 15, 2007)

stihlgotwood said:


> just curios- what is TCIA membership


For me, TCIA membership was the guilt built up after 12 years of receiving their free treecare magazine and never kicking anything back.

You don't need to be a member of TCIA, just call or e-mail and ask to receive the publication. Once a year you have to send in the included, postage paid card so they can keep you on the renew cycle. TCIA also puts on the tree care EXPO every year, which is another really great place to go and learn and network and buy gear. If you get the magazine, you'll get notice of when and where the EXPO is.
------------
With membership, you get both the _TCIA Magazine_ and another tree publication, downloadable. Here's a sample of that


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## Mike Barcaskey (Jan 15, 2007)

I'll say this, short and sweet
In my area, excluding removals
All most all of the hack work is done by non-CA's 
All most all the good work is done by CA's


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## asiegler04 (Jan 22, 2007)

I dont belive that it is a must to be certified but do the homework and look at proper prunning techs and you should be fine. Get certified later though.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey Asiegler,

Welcome to the site!


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## Bermie (Jan 23, 2007)

treeseer said:


> Fiona I would get on the membership dept about that. [email protected]. Arborist News came out in December and the AUF journal should be out in January. They alternate, so you should be getting something every month.




Thanks Seer, I emailed them and they got back to me PRONTO!!
I got my December magazine yesterday, probably the Chrismas back log and the fact that Bermuda is another world. 
ISA takes care of their customers folks.


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