# New Holland L425, a case of buyer beware.



## 4seasons (Oct 24, 2018)

I recently bought a used skid steer for what I thought was a fair price given the few issues that I needed to fix.
I knew going in that the engine (Wisconsin VH4D) had been recently rebuild and the hydraulics were strong. However the bucket was rusting out, the exhaust was leaking, it needed a new seat, and the tires were bald. All the bad was stuff I could easily fix, and it started and ran well as I inspected it before buying.
After I got home with it and fixed the few known issues I put it to work. After about 5 hours of moving dirt it abruptly quit. It would not crank fast enough to start back. I put the battery charger on it and let it sit for the night. In the morning it started up but only ran for 10 seconds before stalling out again. Once again it would not crank. On further inspection I noticed the alternator belt was broke.
After fighting the boom all day to raise it enough with a floor jack and some 4x4's I could access the engine enough to pull both the starter and alternator to have them checked. I had the starter rebuilt as the bushings in it were shot. After putting it back together it still wouldn't start.
This time not only would it not crank fast enough to start but the starter was staying engaged. So after paying a "professional" $125 to rebuild it, I had to tear it down and put it back together again myself because it had been assembled wrong. After doing this it still would not crank. 
The next thought I had was possibly a hydraulic pump froze up. I pulled all of the hydraulics out only to find that they were flowing properly and not the problem.






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## 4seasons (Oct 24, 2018)

I know it has to be an engine problem. In order to access the Wisconsin VH4D it must be removed from the skid steer. After figuring out how to do this with a couple of ratchet straps, I could then start removing all of the air shrouding. Due to a horrible design the flywheel must be removed to take the air shroud off. I had to buy some new tools and build a new tool (see the father-son project on the firewood forum) I finally convinced the flywheel off with brute force wedges and heat. I would like to take this opportunity to send a huge middle finger to Wisconsin engineers. Even in a state of partial disassembly it was still difficult to turn the engine by hand.





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## 4seasons (Oct 24, 2018)

My next thoughts were a stuck valve or a frozen bearing. After removing the cam gear and turning the cam by hand everything moved properly there so I moved on to the crank. Look very closely at the picture and see if you find anything wrong.

If you didn't spot it immediately, don't feel bad I didn't either. I thought something looked odd, so I consulted the manual from Wisconsin (available free on the internet) for the rotation of the engine. I now quote from the service manual on page 21, "Be sure that the oil hole in connecting rod cap is facing toward the oil spray nozzle." That's right all four of the connecting rod caps are on backwards. I can only hope that the oil starved crank and connecting rods have not been excessively damaged due to the incompetence of the rebuilder.





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## Eq Broker (Oct 24, 2018)

I'm sorry this happened to you. Most rebuilders have a warranty on the rebuild. Can you get the receipt from the previous owner and possibly do a warranty claim?

Hope this helps!

Dave
Global Equipment Exporters
770-420-6400


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## 4seasons (Oct 24, 2018)

Eq Broker said:


> Most rebuilders have a warranty on the rebuild. Can you get the receipt from the previous owner and possibly do a warranty claim?


On the starter you are right. But I already fixed it and it isn't worth fighting over. On the engine, he didn't claim to be a professional or offer any kind of warranty, so I can't very well go after him. I just got ticked that a simple rebuild wasn't done properly,


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## 4seasons (Jan 24, 2019)

Been a while since I updated this as I have way too many projects going at once.
After flipping the bearing caps, reassembling the engine and putting it back in the skid steer, it started after playing with the timing a bit. While I had ever thing apart I added a tachometer so I know if I am pushing the 2800 rpm red line of this engine. Then while adjusting the carb and setting the idle, the engine abruptly stopped. I immediately thought it had to be the sleeve bearings had more damage than I had thought. Also possible to have excessive crank and rod wear so I pulled it out and tore it down again.
When I pulled the crankshaft the PTO end bearing spit the rollers out. So I have found the route problem.

But this has uncovered another problem. This Wisconsin VH4D engine uses a specific bearing (part #ME114) that depending on the dealer sell for $200-300. I am used to buying bearings for $10-20. Has anyone else replaced one of these before and found a better price on a comparable bearing? I did discover a Massey Ferguson bearing for $50 with the same part number (ME 114) and they list the dimensions, but I can't find a dimension on the Wisconsin that I have to know if it will fit.
I can find the whole crank with bearings installed for $200, but before I go that route I would like to see if anyone else ran into this issue.


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## 4seasons (Apr 12, 2019)

Never good when the bearing come out in pieces.








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## 4seasons (Apr 12, 2019)

Odd that the front and back cylinder are wet and the middle two look normal.








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## 4seasons (Apr 12, 2019)

Looks like someone tried to pry the head off or chisel a valve loose and beat the block up. Tons of carbon under the intake valves also. I have never seen pitting this bad either. I don't know if that is typical on a flathead as this is the first one I have torn down.








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## 4seasons (Apr 17, 2019)

Got the block decked below the gouge marks and took most of the pitting out. I probably could have used new valve seats but I don't have the tools to to it so I ground and polished them before lapping.





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## 4seasons (Apr 17, 2019)

Also discovered the timing advance weights in the distributor we're rusted up and not working. No wonder it was missing under load. Really makes me wonder how the guy I bought it from claimed to have went through the engine a few months ago. I should have looked it over better, but it was getting dark when I was looking. I also had drove an hour to get there with a borrowed trailer that I had to return that night.











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## 4seasons (Apr 17, 2019)

Getting the distributor cleaned up and working again was pretty easy. New head gaskets should be here Friday. Maybe I can get this thing running in time to put a garden in this year.








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## 4seasons (Apr 18, 2019)

Since I'm not going to bore the block and buy oversize pistons I was just going to pop the pistons back in the holes they came from after a good cleaning. Thankfully as I was cleaning the pistons I noticed some junk behind the rings that I couldn't get out. Both the pistons and the rods are directional so those were on backwards, but I also found some rings that were upside down. 
I really have a basket case on my hands here.





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## Tobystihl (Apr 18, 2019)

Patience is a virtue, and it looks like you have it sussed, it's going to purr like a cat when you've finished with it!


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 18, 2019)

Can't find a decent parts engine?

We had 3 or 4 of them, gave them away when I did a big cleanup of outside the shop (hauled off about 80 tons of metal) Yes... tons.


It's kind of the name of the game, pretty rare to find a 40+ year old piece of equipment that hasn't been well used. At least the Wisconisins were widely used so parts shouldn't be too bad to get.

Have run into trouble getting parts for even late 80s-mid 90s machines.
Got told by the dealer that our 1987 648 skidder was "an antique". Sure would love a nice new one, but don't have $350,000.


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## 4seasons (May 15, 2019)

I got her all cleaned up put back together reinstalled and discovered I still have a cylinder that would not hit. It had plenty of compression but failed the leak down test miserably. So I pulled that cylinder block back off and installed some new rings. I get everything back together again and now the other cylinder block has no compression. To add some more crap to the sewer now trying to get it to pull its own weight it blew a seal between the hydraulic pumps. Then while trying to get it started the starter solenoid quit working. I think if I ever get this thing working I'm going to paint it brown and call it the turd.





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## 4seasons (May 15, 2019)

After close inspection on the cylinder block that has no compression I noticed blue flames rolling around inside the air duct. that can only be two things either head gasket or a cracked block. Lucky for me I have both! I've never seen a head gasket fail like this before but this is also the first flathead I have ever worked on. I don't know if the block cracked and therefore the head gasket blew or the head gasket blew and the heat from the fire going down hole between cylinders cracked the block. Being that this crack is in a low-stress area I'm hoping I can salvage this block.








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## 4seasons (May 15, 2019)

I know why the gasket blew. 0.15 on the block and 0.18 on the head. That's 0.33 mm gap when 0.05 mm is the max tolerance. Time to deck the head and block.








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## Colt Marlington (May 15, 2019)

Ouch!


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## knockbill (May 15, 2019)

Wow,, you are a patient man!!!! Isn't there a replacement, used or rebuilt available that would fit this machine?


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## mbrick (May 15, 2019)

Wow, what a saga. Your persistence will eventually pay off...


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## Ted Jenkins (May 16, 2019)

And I thought that just I was the only one to land into a big puddle of crappy mud. I do not like at all the Wisconsin engine power plant. Why not put a Kubota power and be done with confidence. I discover they are not super hard to convert. I could see me going down that road also. Of course you will persevere. Thanks


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## Big Red Oaks 4 me (May 16, 2019)

You must be a really good guy. I wouldn't have lasted very long at all with all the issues. Patience is a great quality to have, and I simply don't have enough of that for even small jobs. Hope you are rewarded with a good, dependable machine in the end!


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## 4seasons (Jun 26, 2019)

Well after months of looking for a deal on either the parts to fix this one or a new engine I found a guy in Canada willing to sell a jug that needed rebuilt. Price was right but I would have to buy it sight unseen from a guy off the internet. Then I ran across this W4-1770 in Richmond, VA. He had it rebuilt and the rebuilder used the wrong rings. He repowered his stump grinder with a Vanguard and was selling this engine for parts. Fresh rebuilt engines like these sell for $3-5k with running used ones going for $1500-2500. So I set out on a 350 mile trip one way to save $1500. 5:45 to get there 30 minutes to look it over and load and 6:15 back and $100 in gas for a 12.5 hour day.
This time I will get it running!


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## knockbill (Jun 26, 2019)

Best of luck!!!!!!


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## 4seasons (Jun 27, 2019)

Tearing down this W4-1770, I noticed how much cleaner it is compared to the VH4D that was on my skid steer. Check out the carbon deposits on the intake ports. Also the amount of pitting on the VH4D compared to the W4.









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## 4seasons (Jun 27, 2019)

The W4 is rated at 35 HP and the VH is 30. The only difference I can find is in the head. It may run a little higher compression but it was probably designed for better flow. You have to look close to see the little bumps over the valves.











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## 4seasons (Jun 27, 2019)

I did the jug swap using a technique that saves me from pulling the engine, oil pan and draining the oil. I will do an oil change after a break in period, but I don't have any more money to waste on this thing now. I also used a 25¢ tool to pull the valves, lap them and reinstall.








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## 4seasons (Jun 27, 2019)

The jug swap I mentioned above works like this:
First remove the air ducts and manifold to access the 6 nuts/studs that hold the jug on. After pulled the jug pack the holes in the block with some rags so that you can clean the gasket surface without getting trash in the block. Then when you are ready to reinstall use a ring compressor and install the pistons from the bottom of the jug. Leave the wrist pins out and the holes for the pins sticking out of the bottom. Go ahead and install the inner wrist pins retainer clips. Next rotate the crank so that one rod is up and the other down. If using a paper/felt gasket put it on now. Then with a helper's assistance hold the jug over the rod and install a wrist pin. A 1/2 inch socket can help push the pin into position. Install the outer retainer clip. Then lower the jug half way and turn the crank till the rods are both at half stroke. Install the other wrist pin and clip. If using an RTV sealant apply it next. Then put the jug in place and torque the nuts down. Now you can adjust the valves and put everything back together. I hope this guide helps someone.

















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## 4seasons (Jun 28, 2019)

IT ALIVE! WAAAA HAAA HAAA HAAAAAAAAA!

I feel like a mad scientist bringing this monster to life. As soon as I started it I got to work on fixing my yard. I moved a bunch of dirt and went to scoop up some rock when I ran out of gas. Too bad I spent all my money getting it running. Now I have to wait for a paycheck before I can afford some gas.


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## MNGuns (Jul 3, 2019)

4seasons said:


> IT ALIVE! WAAAA HAAA HAAA HAAAAAAAAA!
> 
> I feel like a mad scientist bringing this monster to life. As soon as I started it I got to work on fixing my yard. I moved a bunch of dirt and went to scoop up some rock when I ran out of gas. Too bad I spent all my money getting it running. Now I have to wait for a paycheck before I can afford some gas.



Impressive amount of perseverance and determination. I hope you get every dime worth of your time and money out of it. Work her hard!


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