# Sawdust?



## retoid (Apr 27, 2008)

I've been milling lots of NW red cedar and have a huge pile of sawdust building up. A lot of it has gone into my compost but I am left with a lot more.
I am curious what you millers choose to do with your sawdust. Wondering what your creative ways of usage may be.

P.S. Will cedar sawdust slow down my compost pile drastically due to the rot resistance of cedar?
I started my pile in layers.
Layer 1 - Organic materials (cedar dust)
Layer 2 - 12-12-12 fertilizer
Layer 3 - Top soil
and repeated the process 2 more times.


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## Metals406 (Apr 27, 2008)

I know a few fellas that take their chips, and sawdust, and make fire-starter out of it. Take a steel can or barrel, and mix up 75% chips/dust... To 25% diesel fuel. Mix it up good, and let it sit out'a the weather in a well ventilated spot.

One cup on top of kindling, and off your fire goes.


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## retoid (Apr 27, 2008)

Thats not a bad idea. Diesel is expensive though and fire's arent very hard to start around here. There is plenty of dry wood and if that doesn't cut it I use birch bark.


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## Metals406 (Apr 27, 2008)

I guess the point isn't that fires are hard to start... It makes a use for you waste, and you aren't sitting at the stove crumpling newspapers to start your fire.

If you have a small shed, or shop you want insulated... Sawdust/chips work excellent for that too. Many an old balloon-framed home here--have sawdust insulated walls.

It also works good to silence the transmission on that :censored: car you've been trying to sell. LOL


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## Haywire Haywood (Apr 27, 2008)

I used the dust from milling some cedar on my wife's Hostas and Coral Bells and she said they loved it. Basically chips from any conifer can be used on plants that like acidic soil.

Ian


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## harrygrey382 (Apr 28, 2008)

sell it to pet shops/butchers? Hot smoke fish with it?


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## retoid (Apr 28, 2008)

harrygrey382 said:


> sell it to pet shops/butchers? Hot smoke fish with it?



Best use yet. Smoker.

Unfortunately most rodents should not be kept in cedar sawdust. Once their urine hits it, I guess the fumes will cause respiratory problems and kill them.
However, using them in a smoker is a fantastic idea.
Got me a Big Chief


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## RPM (Apr 28, 2008)

[QUOTEBest use yet. Smoker.QUOTE]

I've been told that you shouldn't use cedar to smoke fish or meat with - this link gives some explanation. The only thing I 've used cedar for cooking wise is cedar plank Salmon. If you are in the Seattle area - Puget Sound find some Red Alder and mill that up and use the saw dust / chips from that - way better.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/pnw/pnw238.pdf


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 28, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> It also works good to silence the transmission on that :censored: car you've been trying to sell. LOL



I've heard that sawdust needs a lot more nitrogen to breakdown in a compost pile. 

Anyone remember sawdust snowtires? They would mix some sawdust into the rubber mix for better traction. Don't know if it worked or not.


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## DRB (Apr 28, 2008)

RPM said:


> retoid said:
> 
> 
> > Best use yet. Smoker.QUOTE]
> ...


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## artie__bc (Apr 28, 2008)

I tilled a bunch of maple sawdust into my garden, and nothing wanted to grow anymore.....


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## almondgt (Apr 28, 2008)

buzz sawyer said:


> I've heard that sawdust needs a lot more nitrogen to breakdown in a compost pile.
> 
> Anyone remember sawdust snowtires? They would mix some sawdust into the rubber mix for better traction. Don't know if it worked or not.



I drove my friends 1978 Z28 camaro with 4 remanufactured saw dust tires in my younger days. That car HANDLED EXTREMELY WELL on icy roads and  with no slip that I can remember and I'm still here. If they reproduced that tire I'd be on it without hesitation.


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## aquan8tor (Apr 29, 2008)

buzz sawyer said:


> I've heard that sawdust needs a lot more nitrogen to breakdown in a compost pile.
> 
> Anyone remember sawdust snowtires? They would mix some sawdust into the rubber mix for better traction. Don't know if it worked or not.







It does soak up all the nitrogen in the soil if it isn't composted already. I've been turning a lot of bowls in the last several months, and gotten a few pickup truck loads worth of shavings out of them; I composted them all winter, and tilled them in, but also added a lot of composted chicken manure and an organic nitrogen fertilizer-I think it was plant tone, which is like 5-3-3, but we didn't want to use a non-organic fertilizer on the garden. I'm going to have to find a better way soon. I've read a little about mushroom farms using urine-soaked horse stall bedding---which is usually straw & sawdust, mixed up, with horse manure and extra urea added, which speeds up the composting process a LOT!! I think they also have to keep the piles wetted, as they get very hot. 

Anyone done anything like this??? I have a huge pile of shavings from turning, and its only going to get bigger. I even bought a coring device which lets you remove the inside of the bowl with a curved knife, to use for another bowl, so you cut down on the waste. I'm still going to have boatloads of shavings, though......


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## Zodiac45 (Apr 29, 2008)

artie__bc said:


> I tilled a bunch of maple sawdust into my garden, and nothing wanted to grow anymore.....



Yep not a good idea. When I first was setting up my garden plot I got a load of very old stuff from a long gone sawmill that had operated on a river here. That stuff was at least 40yrs old and I wanted to get some organic materials into my new spot. They worked ok but increased acidy quite a bit still that long a time. Fresh dust is just too acidic. Two years ago, same plot I got a pickup load of horse manure that was mixed with sawdust. Again pretty acidic and took a large shot of lime/mag too get it into the proper range. If you can find a guy with grass fed cows that will sell you manure that's the stuff you want! Even if you need to keep it a year in a pile, it's really good for the garden as is. Around here I get quite a bit of seaweed washing up after a storm and that works awesome tilled into the veg plot. Chicken ####e is good too if it's 3 yrs old or better.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 29, 2008)

artie__bc said:


> I tilled a bunch of maple sawdust into my garden, and nothing wanted to grow anymore.....



That spot will be fine if you add lime and nitrogen.

I add anything i can get my hands on into my gardens, leaves, grass, sawdust, wood chips, but i always add some kind of nitrogen so it will compost faster, and i add lime to keep the PH in the proper place.

















Just don't lime your potato or blueberry patch... They like sour ground..

Rob


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## Rowan (Apr 29, 2008)

*Animal bedding.....*

In our area the local farmers will pay money for sofwood shavings. They use it for animal bedding. I'm not sure if they'd take dust.... but it wouldn't hurt to take a sample to someone with horses, or other animals kept in stalls and ask.

Who knows you may even be able to get paid for your waste.


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## slabmaster (Apr 29, 2008)

Rowan said:


> In our area the local farmers will pay money for sofwood shavings. They use it for animal bedding. I'm not sure if they'd take dust.... but it wouldn't hurt to take a sample to someone with horses, or other animals kept in stalls and ask.
> 
> Who knows you may even be able to get paid for your waste.



That's another advantage over a band mill.csm mills leave a courser shavings for resale to animal keepers.The way you sharpen the chain will determine the coursness of the shavings.Full chizel wound leave large shavings.I also get nice shavings from my plainer. Mark


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## aquan8tor (Apr 29, 2008)

I agree with Rob. BTW, Rob, what kind of nitrogen source do you use???? I have a crapload of dust & shavings to use, and I don't have anyone I can give it away to as bedding....





Sawyer Rob said:


> That spot will be fine if you add lime and nitrogen.
> 
> I add anything i can get my hands on into my gardens, leaves, grass, sawdust, wood chips, but i always add some kind of nitrogen so it will compost faster, and i add lime to keep the PH in the proper place.
> 
> ...


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## Woodie (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm an amateur woodworker myself, and use sawdust to improve my heavy clay soil all the time. However, and this is a big one, I agree completely with the others that it will suck all the nitrogen out of your soil in the short term.

What I do is use it to improve soil that hasn't yet been planted, and may not be for a year or so. Then I mix in green grass clippings with the sawdust. The sawdust eats nitrogen slowly, and the grass clippings release it slowly, so you get a decent balance. By the time the worms and microbes have worked their magic, the soil is close to normal, and things grow well. And much better since it helps to break-up the clay.

Think green stuff to add the nitrogen. Alternatively, you could use blood meal. It's on the expensive side, but it tends to break down very quickly...more quickly than you may want. It is definitely a sure-fire way to add back nitrogen, though!


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 29, 2008)

slabmaster said:


> That's another advantage over a band mill.csm mills leave a courser shavings for resale to animal keepers.The way you sharpen the chain will determine the coursness of the shavings.Full chizel wound leave large shavings.I also get nice shavings from my plainer. Mark




I don't know about where you live, but any place i've been, that 5th board on the ground in shaveings is worth a LOT more forsale as a "board" than the shaveings it turns into with a CSM.

I add turkey poop bedding to my garden for a nitrogen source...

BTW, farmers here want "kiln dried" shaveings, not green shaveings off the mill...

Rob


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## GeeVee (Apr 29, 2008)

Composting quickly is all the band millers want. They have a tough product compared to the CSM shavings.

Either would work in a Tumbler Composter. Well, for likely the least work.

I will see if I can find a link.


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## aquan8tor (Apr 29, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I don't know about where you live, but any place i've been, that 5th board on the ground in shaveings is worth a LOT more forsale as a "board" than the shaveings it turns into with a CSM.
> 
> I add turkey poop bedding to my garden for a nitrogen source...
> 
> ...



Sounds good.  I'm using chicken manure, which is what is available here. I have to agree about the dry shavings. Wet ones will mold, which can cause lung infections.......

Also, I've not seen ANY CSM's that produce large enough shavings in dry or wet logs, when comparable to any planer shavings, with any wood. When you're sawing straight through the end of a log, it simply won't happen if you're cutting straight with the grain. If you're using it diagonally to the cut, maybe. However, the point is, most people who use CSM's will produce DUST, just like a bandsaw mill. Not to start another BULL$H!T PI$$ING contest, but why the HELL wouldn't you want to have more boards??!!!!!   Unless they're really wide slabs you can't get with a PROPERLY utilized bandsaw, i.e. enough tension, wide band, and someone who knows what they're doing enough to cut slow & not let the blade wander......    



GeeVee said:


> Composting quickly is all the band millers want. They have a tough product compared to the CSM shavings.
> 
> Either would work in a Tumbler Composter. Well, for likely the least work.
> 
> I will see if I can find a link.




A tumbler isn't a very practical solution if you have a large amount of sawdust, from any source. I don't understand what you mean by "tough product" in regards to composting???? I find that the finer the sawdust, the faster the decomposition; more surface area.


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## acer saccharum (Apr 29, 2008)

If you save up enough it can make for a pretty nice artificial sand dune.  
This pile is in Stratton VT. It covers at least an acre. The mill that made it operated from the 1880's into the first decade of the 1900's. It is proof that saw dust alone will pretty much never decompose and nothing can grow in it.


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## retoid (Apr 30, 2008)

Wow thats a huge sawdust pile!

Great ideas here guys. I will try and make sure my compost pile gets enough nitrogen.

Btw how do you check the pH of a compost pile?


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## MJR (Apr 30, 2008)

Wow, that is some saw dust pile. My pile has ice till mid May. That thing must hold ice all year!


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## Backwoods (May 18, 2008)

Use it in the flowerbeds Azaleas and rhododendrons love the stuff, Put down a weed barrier and sped it out thick.
Put it in the pigpen for bedding then shelve it out with the manure turn the pile a few times and sped it out on the garden the following spring. = “ORGANIC GARDENING” 
Put down a layer in the chicken house, and pigeon house. Use around the peppers.
Fill the dog houses up with it. IT helps to keep fleas away. 
I run an LT-70 full time and have never been over run with sawdust. I have a back log of projects to use the sawdust on. Insulation in the kiln walls, multiple flowerbeds. 
The blower in my wood shop dumps straight into the bed area of the pigpen. This saves a step in handling it. I have a panel that opens up so I can add sawdust from the mill by the front-end loader full.


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## woodshop (May 18, 2008)

Backwoods said:


> ...I run an LT-70 full time and have never been over run with sawdust... The blower in my wood shop dumps straight into the bed area of the pigpen. This saves a step in handling it...



Hey now.. I like that, strait into the pigpen. Sounds like you have quite an operation there backwoods. Got any pics of your operation or that LT-70?


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## Backwoods (May 18, 2008)

I broke the dad burn camera yesterday taking pictures of Myrtlewood. However, this is my mill cutting black oak for flooring. It is the very first LT-70 that Woodmizer built. They worked a lot of bugs out of the mill since this one. 
I am running the new Accuset 2 for the set works, that was a good up grade as the old accuset was designed to fail in 3 different ways. These things are still 10 years behind the curve when it comes to the computer set works. You should see what the big fully computerized production mills are doing now like complete log scan, auto rotate, pre set milling options. Load the log and watch it mill. 
Now if Woodmizer would just figure out that they need another arm on the debarker so that it will follow the log rather then push it down the log. And put a hydraulic bang cylinder on the front to make set up and tear down faster and easier then they would be just 10 years behind the curve on the mechanical part.
follow this link for more photos.
Sawmill


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## Brmorgan (May 19, 2008)

Regarding that sawdust pile never decomposing, was it hardwood or softwood dust? Maybe I'm wrong (feel free to let me know) but don't most hardwoods have some nasty compounds in them that softwoods usually don't? For example, oak and similar woods contain a lot of tannin. This might also explain:



> I tilled a bunch of maple sawdust into my garden, and nothing wanted to grow anymore.....



Around my area I've run across a few old sawmill sites while exploring, dating mostly from the late Thirties up to the early '60s. A few have massive sawdust heaps, all pine - D Fir - spruce, and while they definitely still stand out trees will grow in them, mostly poplar. I have a theory on why they don't decompose well - they sit so densely that oxygen can't penetrate them very far, so bacteria can't break them down. On the other hand, I've seen small piles of planer shavings and chainsaw chips (same wood) completely disappear in two years.

I've had an idea to build something with a high-pressure hydraulic ram to press sawdust (with a binding agent) to make firelogs. Much like the pellets for pellet stoves, but on a much larger scale. Don't know if it would be practical, just an idea.


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## Just_Sawing (May 20, 2008)

*Sawdust Solutions*

I take almost all my sawdust to my neighbor. He runs about 20 cow pairs and feeds round bales of hay. I put the dust down round the hay area and the cattle stand mill and do what cows do best make pies. They spend all winter mixing their pies and my dust together. By spring it is well on the way to the best garden soil money can buy.


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## Backwoods (May 20, 2008)

Well so far, the common thread is livestock. It may be the urine that helps to brake down the acidity of the sawdust, thru the ammonia, nitrate, nitrite process or it could be the micro organisms in the manure that are feeding on the sawdust helping to brake it down. All the gardening “experts” seem to agree that when building a compost pile it should be a layer of green then a layer of brown; just keep alternating up thru the stack in order to get the best compost. Then turn this mix on a regular basis. By putting the sawdust (the brown) in the animals pen, the animals add there ingredient (the green) and then walk around turning the whole mix on a regular basis making for a balanced fertile mixture.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 20, 2008)

Brmorgan said:


> Regarding that sawdust pile never decomposing, was it hardwood or softwood dust? Maybe I'm wrong (feel free to let me know) but don't most hardwoods have some nasty compounds in them that softwoods usually don't? For example, oak and similar woods contain a lot of tannin. This might also explain:
> 
> 
> 
> Around my area I've run across a few old sawmill sites while exploring, dating mostly from the late Thirties up to the early '60s. A few have massive sawdust heaps, all pine - D Fir - spruce, and while they definitely still stand out trees will grow in them, mostly poplar. I have a theory on why they don't decompose well - they sit so densely that oxygen can't penetrate them very far, so bacteria can't break them down. On the other hand, I've seen small piles of planer shavings and chainsaw chips (same wood) completely disappear in two years.



Some woods have natural toxins in them that prevent decay and bug attack. Walnut is one but not all hardwoods are bad for soil.

I was told by the chief arborist / grounds keeper for a local (huge) school district that shavings, grindings, dust, etc. must be composted before using it as mulch or soil additives. Pile them up in the shade, keep them wet and turn the pile regularly for several months (depending on weather conditions) and you should be good to go. 



> I've had an idea to build something with a high-pressure hydraulic ram to press sawdust (with a binding agent) to make firelogs. Much like the pellets for pellet stoves, but on a much larger scale. Don't know if it would be practical, just an idea.




I read something about using paraffin wax for a binder.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 20, 2008)

I just remembered something else that kinda fits here...

There is a company in the Austin area that grinds and hauls off the trees and brush from new construction sites (at no cost to the contractor) then processes it into mulch. If I remember I'll take a picture of their yard next time I pass it and I might have a picture or two of their tub grinder on one of our sites. They literally have mountains of tree grindings on a site I'd guess to be 100 acres or so.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 20, 2008)

Found the grinder pics...











The grindings are hauled to their yard, pushed into piles with a track loader, kept wet with sprinklers for 6 months, then reground, bagged and sold to Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. or sold in bulk.


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## Backwoods (May 20, 2008)

If you are being over ran with sawdust and have a steady supply and the quality is good. Get a hold of one of the large mills in your area. Depending on what there chip market is, they may buy it in bulk. Here locally seven large mills will buy “clean chips and fines”. They will expect it to be free of stuff like metal, paper ect. In addition, it will need to be separated by size, so no chunks. The chip market is a big enough market for them that it pays the bills during the times when the lumber prices are down, and may give put a little extra jingle in your pocket.


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## porta mill (May 20, 2008)

*saw dust*

any one in northeast PA looikng to get rid any saw dust . i need some for a horse barn .i do no produce enough to supply what i need .


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## boltonranger (May 20, 2008)

*Boring but works...*

I cut in the driveway sometimes - I'll sweep the chips and put them in a paper grocery bag. One night I was low on wood and for a lark put one of those bags on. (I had them sitting next to the trash can.)
Really worked well! Burned as long as a comparable log; not too fast, as long as I didn't poker it. In that case it burns faster and hotter.
Sort of satisfying to burn something that I was going to dispose of.
-br


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## Backwoods (May 20, 2008)

Sawmill with ambition.






Now there is a day’s work. Well actually, that is less then 4 hours work for a large mill just down the road from me.


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## retoid (May 21, 2008)

Wow


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## Brmorgan (May 21, 2008)

The sawmill I work at can put out over 12 double-trailer chip truck loads each 10-hour shift if we're running big logs and it runs well.:jawdrop: 
That doesn't count the hog fuel (bark and other junk that goes to the powerplant across the road) or the fines from the planer.


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## Backwoods (May 21, 2008)

Brmorgan
Depending on the saw kerf you are running. It sounds like you must be putting out in the neighbor hood of 400,000 to 600,000 bft per shift. 
RFP is the second largest mill in the word (first largest is in Russia) it is over onemile long under one continual building. The building houses three sawmills (An older large diameter mill, a brand new high speed small log mill, and a state of the art stud mill) under the same roof is also a high speed planer mill, a particle board plant, a fiberboard plant, cogen plant, and boilers. Their veneer and plywood plants are off site.


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## Brmorgan (May 22, 2008)

I run a ribbon-fed chip-n-saw canter that can feed well over 20,000 9' logs in 10 hours. It runs a fixed set so no matter what size of log goes in (from 4 to 12 inches or so), the same size of cant comes out. The chip market here is so high because of all the mill shutdowns that we can actually get just as much money for the chips from oversize logs as if we milled the extra lumber. We've still done over 300,000 board feet this way only taking 3 2X4s out of every 9' log.

There was reportedly a mill in MacKenzie, a few hours north of where I live, that could do 1.5 million board feet per shift - I forget if it was Abitibi or Canfor. They're all drastically cut back there now though. The best mill in my town can do about 650,000+ at the top end in three lines which is still a lot.


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## Backwoods (May 23, 2008)

I worked at a stud mill in Douglas County, when I started there they were putting out about 100,000 bft a 10 hr shift. After several upgrades, we had it putting out over 400,000 per shift. I have since retired, they are not working but every other week, and my little LT-70 is still plugging along milling logs that cost too much to ship to them. I am along one of the most traveled chip routs to the coast and the chip trucks are still running steady.


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