# small skidder



## dozerman37 (Apr 7, 2010)

anyone use a small skidder here for doing thier firewood with? i am currently using a tractor and it pretty much stinks. why dont we show some pics?


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Apr 7, 2010)

Yup. Started out doing it by hand, then a Lewis winch (pos), then a winch on a pickup, then a Milemarker winch in the bed of F450, then a winch on a small log-grapple trailer.
The ONLY way to skid logs is with a log skidder (duh).

But now we're buying logs delivered since we didn't have time to do it all, and the John Deere 440B is for sale


----------



## johnzski (Apr 7, 2010)

I use a John Deere 4310 with a norse 390 winch. Can move a lot of wood with it. Hey ohiowoodguy that is a very unique paint job on that old 440!


----------



## Turkeyslayer (Apr 7, 2010)

I use a tractor and winch and am very pleased with the setup
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=116946


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Apr 8, 2010)

johnzski said:


> I use a John Deere 4310 with a norse 390 winch. Can move a lot of wood with it. Hey ohiowoodguy that is a very unique paint job on that old 440!





We used a tractor with a 3-pt log grapple, but it was very slow (compared to a skidder), did more damage than the skidder- because we had to make many more trips, was very unsafe, and tractors in the woods seem to get the :censored: beat out of them.

The original yellow gives me a headache, so we used alot of green like the new big machines.:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Oldtimer (Apr 8, 2010)

If you're only doing your own firewood, then the easiest way is to cut and split it right in the woods, then stack it in the back of an old jeep or other capable rig and haul it out. 

I knew a family that did almost 200 cords a year this way, using a couple of mauls and an old army jeep. They were NOT scared to work..and they were in fantastic shape..the main maul guy was built like a greek god. One day he got mad at home and pulverized a heavy wooden living room chair with his bare hands. Literally crushed it inwards and then ripped it apart.


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 8, 2010)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> We used a tractor with a 3-pt log grapple, but it was very slow (compared to a skidder), did more damage than the skidder- because we had to make many more trips, was very unsafe, and tractors in the woods seem to get the :censored: beat out of them.
> 
> The original yellow gives me a headache, so we used alot of green like the new big machines.:greenchainsaw:



I have never had a problem with a tractor in the woods. Use them daily. And have not beat the tar out of any of them. It is more up to the operator of the machine on how it is going to get beat up. Used correctly a tractor with log chains is just the same as a skidder.

Ray


----------



## headleyj (Apr 8, 2010)

I use my 38h Kubota and a boom pole with tongs - I love it. Granted you can only get one log out at a time, but with forks on teh fron now I can load up the front with 8' logs, drag a big one with the tongs and be balanced going up the steep hills we have.


----------



## savageactor7 (Apr 8, 2010)

dozerman you don't mention how big the tractor is. If you have a 3PH just lower it over a log chain it properly, lift it and away ya go.


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 8, 2010)

Double pull with my 52 A and my dad's 530
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe61phnBN9w
Single with just my A it is all that she wanted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNb1xZ5bAZA 

Will be putting on the fork attachment for the 530. That way it will pull more.

Ray


----------



## Curlycherry1 (Apr 8, 2010)

A skidding winch for a tractor will be like night and day difference. That is where I would start first.

That said there is not much money to be made dragging wood out of the woods. We learned long ago that it was too expensive and tied up way too much capital to go to the woods and fetch logs. So now the logs are bought by the truckload and there is no shortage of supply. My brother has loggers that bring him logs and only want to be paid once per year. He has two of them like that and they use the money for their big game hunting costs. You can't beat using someone elses sweat equity for free for a year.

Unless you have an endless supply of your own wood, then a skidder is a big expense to buy and to maintain. Then if you need to move the logs on the roads to get them back to your storage area then you need a truck with a loader or you need to cut and split at the woods. And moving a skidder is very expensive if you do not have a truck/trailer combination big enough to move it, so there goes more capital.

My brother pays, delivered to the yard, clean with zero dirt, snow skidded logs that are straight and all hardwood cost ~$30 face cord in CNY. That is a chunk of change but the wood is prime and stacked up on site and does not have to be paid for most of the time unit fall hunting season. The big part of that is there is zero capital costs to get those logs in the yard. Anytime more are needed 50+ loads can be delivered in less than a week with just a phone call or two.


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Apr 8, 2010)

:agree2:


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Apr 8, 2010)

ryan_marine said:


> I have never had a problem with a tractor in the woods. Use them daily. And have not beat the tar out of any of them. It is more up to the operator of the machine on how it is going to get beat up. Used correctly a tractor with log chains is just the same as a skidder.
> 
> Ray



:monkey:Give it time. I guess alot of loggers are smacking their foreheads for paying huge $$$$ for machines that are no better than tractors


----------



## dozerman37 (Apr 8, 2010)

*reply savageactor7*

i use a yanmar 336d its a 33hp diesel 3point hitch. i lift the logs up off the gorund with 3pt hitch for skidding. it will pull some big ones. i can skid two count em 2 saw logs 18 in diameter 12 ft. or 2 or 3 firewood logs 10-16'' diamter no problem tractor could handle more too. i get 210 per cord split/delivered up here in western MA southern VT where my customers are. its not bad pay when i go at it. now im getting saw logs and pulp out. pulp pays zip, just enough to eat and wipe my rear. i want a skidder bad tho. i have a decent size lot of my own. i do about 8 to 10 or so hitches a day and get out like about 1/3 to 1/2 a small log truck load of firewood logs. a winch would be ideal. for now i wrestle with a long chain and get em pretty quick enough. the 3 point hitch defntly is the best invention since sliced bread.


----------



## Cowboy Billy (Apr 9, 2010)

I don't like getting dirt in my logs. I load them on a running gear and pull them out. I am building a rack on the running gear right now so I can stack mor logs on at once.












Billy


----------



## blackdiesel (Apr 9, 2010)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> :monkey:Give it time. I guess alot of loggers are smacking their foreheads for paying huge $$$$ for machines that are no better than tractors



And a tricycle tractor at that. We have 4 4x4 JD tractors of different sizes on the farm. None of them are close to my skidder in what they will do in the woods. I don't use my skidder to cut and bale hay, and I don't use my tractor to skid logs. The price of a small tractor 8-15k will buy a good used skidder. Or you could probley buy a skidder with just the money you save on fixin the tractor.


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Apr 9, 2010)

:agree2:


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 9, 2010)

blackdiesel said:


> And a tricycle tractor at that. We have 4 4x4 JD tractors of different sizes on the farm. None of them are close to my skidder in what they will do in the woods. I don't use my skidder to cut and bale hay, and I don't use my tractor to skid logs. The price of a small tractor 8-15k will buy a good used skidder. Or you could probley buy a skidder with just the money you save on fixin the tractor.



Not saying that my A will pull as much as a skidder but it was not close to the price of a skidder. I paid $1500 for it. The 440 skidder is $10K. My repair bill for the last year is $15 to have a rusted bolt removed out of the bottem radiator tank. I am not saying that my A will pull as much as the 440 but operating cost are far less. And I can work on my A. Parts are cheap and easy if you know where to look. Complete major overhaul is only $700 for parts. That is one of the reasons I went with it. Under full load it is only 3.4gal per hour. I am not saying that one is better than the other. I am just stating what works for me. I use mine not to just pull fire wood but also pulls logs. The A has no problem with 400 board feet. I have heard that 440 will only handle 5-600.

Ray


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Apr 10, 2010)

ryan_marine said:


> I have heard that 440 will only handle 5-600.
> 
> Ray



Yeah, on each of the 5 chokers.


----------



## lazermule (Apr 10, 2010)

I don't cut enough to own a skidder, but have seen them work. In my opinion, there ain't an AG tractor in the world that will run logs like a skidder....


----------



## Junkrunner (Apr 10, 2010)

Tractor won't go the places the skidder can.


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 10, 2010)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> Yeah, on each of the 5 chokers.



If your 440 can handle 2000 BF of wood then I am on my way with cash in hand. Post some video of it in action with 2000 BF. 

Ray


----------



## dirtyjeeps (Apr 10, 2010)

I use a Allis Chalmers HD-5 with only the left steering clutch working. Thing is a lil tank, nothing can stop it. guess it's a 2 stroke diesel thing


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 10, 2010)

Those 2 stoke diesel's are bad. I have seen a bunch of John Deere 435 and440ID tractors (not skidders) and dozers that could flat pull. And the sound is hard to describe. They had the ol GM 2-53 motor. 

Ray


----------



## Curlycherry1 (Apr 11, 2010)

lazermule said:


> I don't cut enough to own a skidder, but have seen them work. In my opinion, there ain't an AG tractor in the world that will run logs like a skidder....



Even with a darn good winch on a tractor it cannot compete with a skidder, and I have seen many, many people try over the years. I have seen some darn good tractor operators do the wood dance and they got some good production, but when the woods got sloppy and wet, they slowed way down. I have also seen a relative that owned an old 440 pull some amazing wood with his skidder. He was also so good that you could barely tell where he dragged the logs, he hardly left a mark. Equipment is part of the equation, operator is another.


----------



## gwiley (Apr 12, 2010)

THis might have been mentioned, but one important feature of a woods-tractor or skidder is an armored floor.

Most Ag. tractors have mostly open floors that easily admit debris in the form of spears - operators have been killed by saplings/etc that are broken off but still pointing up at an angle, they go through the open front/floor and impale the operator.

The bobcat that I use has thick steel between me and ground hazards as do most pro. skidders - if you use an Ag. tractor in the woods adding floor armor is an important mod.


----------



## jbrady (Apr 12, 2010)

It all depends on how much wood your moving. A four wheel drive farm tractor can do a lot but log skidders are built for it. I have a Garrett 30 line skidder that will move way more than a farm tractor.


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 12, 2010)

gwiley said:


> THis might have been mentioned, but one important feature of a woods-tractor or skidder is an armored floor.
> 
> Most Ag. tractors have mostly open floors that easily admit debris in the form of spears - operators have been killed by saplings/etc that are broken off but still pointing up at an angle, they go through the open front/floor and impale the operator.
> 
> The bobcat that I use has thick steel between me and ground hazards as do most pro. skidders - if you use an Ag. tractor in the woods adding floor armor is an important mod.



Wonder what that 6' blade is used for on the back of that 530 is for? Before the logs get skidded out all the fire wood is gathered up and brush is piled up. See I don't just get the fire wood. The video I am pulling out logs for timber. If fire wood is gone and the brush is piled then the only thing left to do is pull logs. Other than dropping trees that is the most fun I have. 

Ray


----------



## Steve NW WI (Apr 12, 2010)

gwiley said:


> THis might have been mentioned, but one important feature of a woods-tractor or skidder is an armored floor.
> 
> Most Ag. tractors have mostly open floors that easily admit debris in the form of spears - operators have been killed by saplings/etc that are broken off but still pointing up at an angle, they go through the open front/floor and impale the operator.
> 
> The bobcat that I use has thick steel between me and ground hazards as do most pro. skidders - if you use an Ag. tractor in the woods adding floor armor is an important mod.



Never put much thought into that. I'm either running on good trails, or use the loader bucket as a shear on little stuff, just floating at ground level. Widowmakers are another story. Gotta keep one eye in the sky at all times. A skidder or skid loader's enclosed canopy would be safer.

All I'm gonna say on the tractor vs skidder debate is that I have lots of uses for a tractor, only one for a skidder, and to be honest most of my skidding is for convenience not necessity, so I could do without either if need be in the woods. Take my tractors away and I'm lost on the farm though.

I'll use what works best for me, and y'all can make your own decisions.


----------



## ryan_marine (Apr 12, 2010)

Steve NW WI said:


> Never put much thought into that. I'm either running on good trails, or use the loader bucket as a shear on little stuff, just floating at ground level. Widowmakers are another story. Gotta keep one eye in the sky at all times. A skidder or skid loader's enclosed canopy would be safer.
> 
> All I'm gonna say on the tractor vs skidder debate is that I have lots of uses for a tractor, only one for a skidder, and to be honest most of my skidding is for convenience not necessity, so I could do without either if need be in the woods. Take my tractors away and I'm lost on the farm though.
> 
> I'll use what works best for me, and y'all can make your own decisions.



Well said. :agree2:

Ray


----------



## gwiley (Apr 13, 2010)

Steve NW WI said:


> Never put much thought into that. I'm either running on good trails, or use the loader bucket as a shear on little stuff, just floating at ground level. Widowmakers are another story. Gotta keep one eye in the sky at all times. A skidder or skid loader's enclosed canopy would be safer.
> 
> All I'm gonna say on the tractor vs skidder debate is that I have lots of uses for a tractor, only one for a skidder, and to be honest most of my skidding is for convenience not necessity, so I could do without either if need be in the woods. Take my tractors away and I'm lost on the farm though.
> 
> I'll use what works best for me, and y'all can make your own decisions.



I agree, skidders are too specialized for my taste, although I understand their use in a commercial operation. Agricultural tractors have such a wide variety of uses that it is hard to beat them. I would just make a few mods if I had to use one in the woods (the armored floor and a falling objects protection system).

I really, really like the skid steer (Bobcat) for skidding, it can do most of the same jobs as the tractor with a number of additional uses. There is no way to beat the maneuverability of a skid steer - a 0' turn radius in the woods comes in handy, especially when doing selective harvesting. Most skid steers have very substantial cages around the operator for rollover and falling object protection as well. And don't get me started on the number of attachments available at the local rental place!

I find that even my small machine can drag a huge pile of logs out effortlessly by simply hooking binder chains to the bucket.


----------



## dozerman37 (Apr 13, 2010)

*tractor/skidder*

tractor is NOT A SKIDDER it has some high points tho, i use both and the tractor pounds dirt compared to timberjack 230 and our cat 518. haha no lie i havent used a winch on my yanmar 336d but im sure if i got one itd be 10 times better. but as far as safety, handling, speed, driving in mud/snow its nothing on a log skidder. floor protection is a plus i should invest.


----------



## markbuilt (Apr 14, 2010)

dozerman37 said:


> anyone use a small skidder here for doing thier firewood with? i am currently using a tractor and it pretty much stinks. why dont we show some pics?



yes moved to a skidder as well , little ole 440 John deere engine rebuild to 100hp and a new wrinch pulling 5 or 6 chokers depending if 1 is broke , it ll take a good hich to a good dry and high landing site . now i only need a good loader that will take a bucket or forks , presently use a forklift which also doubles as an adjustable lift saw buck


----------

