# Problems with Stihl Ultra Oil



## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm not sure if anyone else is having this issue or not (and I'm guessing people are/should be). In one month, I have had an 036 Pro, 192T, and just cause a Mantis Tiller 50:1 all bite the big one and have scored bores. I noticed the engines were running rough, and would have to adjust the carb slightly. In the long run, something was causing the engine to run hot, and I was most likely doing is making the engine run leaner. The one thing between all 3 that I have switched is from HP Super to HP Ultra with 93 Octane gas. I know that Stihl only requires 89, however, the dealer told me when I switched that 93 is better in 2-cycles. When I questioned the dealer (and an e-mail to Stihl) they say that Ultra is the best, and should have no change other than cleaner running engines.

One thing that the dealer has said was that ethanol content in gas will be increasing from 10 to 15% by Jan 1, 2012. He recommended using ethanol free gasoline from Shell to mix with the Ultra. However, a warning he also said is that any engine made prior to 2007, with a carburetor will have issues after Jan 1.

Is anyone else in the same boat? I'm rebuilding the 036, and just bought a brand new 362 because parts for the 036 won't be in till the end of September.


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## DSS (Aug 28, 2011)

It's not the oil. You probably leaned them out too much. How old is your mix?

Three engines in a month is not a coincidence, did you mess with all three carbs? And you need a new dealer, end of september for parts? Maybe he wanted you to buy a new saw....


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## trappermike (Aug 28, 2011)

The new Stihl oil should be ok even if there is significant alcohol in the gas,after all 2-strokes run fine on pure alcohol providing the mix oil is compatable.The Stihl oil should be ok,alcohol(In the gas) just doesn't like to mix with ordinary mineral oil.
I would do a little test for myself with the Stihl oil,I would pour maybe a cup of alcohol into bottle and then add some of the Stihl oil,shake it up and it should mix. Mineral oil just will not mix as you would find. I think the Stihl oil is synthetic,should be ok.
I've not tried the new Stihl oil,but synthetic Amsoil mixed with pure alcohol fine so it would be ok with gasahol...
I would think most modern oils in USA would be compatable with gasahol,since you guys have a lot of it.


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## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

DSS said:


> It's not the oil. You probably leaned them out too much. How old is your mix?
> 
> Three engines in a month is not a coincidence, did you mess with all three carbs? And you need a new dealer, end of september for parts? Maybe he wanted you to buy a new saw....




I make fresh mixed gas every month (college professor always said that any mixed gas only lasts about a month before it gums) and generally I use a gallon a month. I did mess with all three carbs, as the engines were still running crappy after i did normal routine maintenance.

Parts are coming from Bailey's FYI.


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## PA Plumber (Aug 28, 2011)

I have been running Stihl HP Ultra for about 5 years now. Not a single issue. Mix 50:1 and run it in all my 2 cycle stuff.

Before the gas was 10% alcohol, ran high test. About 2 years ago, we could not longer get "good" gas around here.

Went to 100 LL AV fuel and have never looked back. 


I have to wonder if there was any possibility of a fuel issue which resulted in all the failures.

Was any of the equipment sitting for a few months at a time with fuel in it?


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## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> I have been running Stihl HP Ultra for about 5 years now. Not a single issue. Mix 50:1 and run it in all my 2 cycle stuff.
> 
> Before the gas was 10% alcohol, ran high test. About 2 years ago, we could not longer get "good" gas around here.
> 
> ...


 
No, the majority of my 2-cycle equipment runs at minimum 1 time a month. The Mantis was first, then the 192, and finally last week the 036. Essentially in order of bad to good quality.


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## nmurph (Aug 28, 2011)

Your professor should stick to art, history or whatever he is teaching; gasoline is good for several months provided it is kept in a relatively stable environment. I run 50:1 in everything and have for about 3yrs. I have had zero oil-related failures. If you are using Ultra, you should be OK with mix that is several months old. I have many saws that sit for months bw use and fire up without any problem. You messed up the settings of your carb, and you dealer is lousy if he can't get parts in less than a month.


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## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

nmurph said:


> Your professor should stick to art, history or whatever he is teaching; gasoline is good for several months provided it is kept in a relatively stable environment. I run 50:1 in everything and have for about 3yrs. I have had zero oil-related failures. If you are using Ultra, you should be OK with mix that is several months old. I have many saws that sit for months bw use and fire up without any problem. You messed up the settings of your carb, and you dealer is lousy if he can't get parts in less than a month.


 
Fuel will go bad without stabilizer. Ultra does have a stabilizer in it. Sure I messed up the carb settings, because something was causing the engine to run hotter. I was compensating by adjusting the carbs to run leaner, causing overheating and eventual scoring of the bores. It was already too late, when I'm loosing at piece of equipment to the same failure each week. I have never had to adjust carbs or any fuel related issues in the 10 years I've owned the saws. I'm NOT getting parts from my dealer, but from Bailey's Online.


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## sunfish (Aug 28, 2011)

I have kept mix up to 8 months with no problems. Actually some longer, but it gets dumped into the mower.

Been running Stihl Ultra lately, also with no problems.


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## trappermike (Aug 28, 2011)

Did the gas in all 3 machines come from the same batch of mix from the same gas can? It's possible to make a misteak-oops,mistake,and accidentally mix wrong? The last time I saw 3 of a guys saws sieze all around the same time(Very exp. faller) someone made a mistake(No oil)mixing his gas.
Or fiddling with the high speed screws can do it too.

Tell me,are the pistons seized and scored all the way around(Oil problem),or are they only siezed on the exhaust port side(Lean HS screw). That tells half of the mystery right there,if they seized from oil mix or lean seizure...


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## BloodOnTheIce (Aug 28, 2011)

WHGStihl said:


> Fuel will go bad without stabilizer. Ultra does have a stabilizer in it. Sure I messed up the carb settings, because something was causing the engine to run hotter. * I was compensating by adjusting the carbs to run leaner,* causing overheating and eventual scoring of the bores. It was already too late, when I'm loosing at piece of equipment to the same failure each week. I have never had to adjust carbs or any fuel related issues in the 10 years I've owned the saws. I'm NOT getting parts from my dealer, but from Bailey's Online.


 
there's your problem.


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## firediver125 (Aug 28, 2011)

*Stihl HP ULTRA oil*

I talked to my boys at the stihl dealer here that I use religiously, and when I asked about the HP Ultra oil compared to the High Performance oil here is what I was told. The HP ULTRA oil was designed to work better with the new 4mix motors, the Ultra oil was made because of the new emission BS. It will work in the all stihl products, HOWEVER, The older Stihl equipment was designed to work with the standard High Performance oil(hence the term High Performance). Therefore you should continue to use the oil that the products you have were designed to use. And they said if you have been running them on the regular HP oil, and aren't having any problems, don't switch. Stick with what works and what they were designed for.

The only thing that we use the Ultra in is two 4mix weedeaters, and FS90, and an FS110. I hate those two compared to my FS85 PRO, I would have the 2cycle over the other two anyday.


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## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

trappermike said:


> Did the gas in all 3 machines come from the same batch of mix from the same gas can? It's possible to make a misteak-oops,mistake,and accidentally mix wrong? The last time I saw 3 of a guys saws sieze all around the same time(Very exp. faller) someone made a mistake(No oil)mixing his gas.
> Or fiddling with the high speed screws can do it too.
> 
> Tell me,are the pistons seized and scored all the way around(Oil problem),or are they only siezed on the exhaust port side(Lean HS screw). That tells half of the mystery right there,if they seized from oil mix or lean seizure...




It's a scored on the exhaust side, the compression in the 036 was 60 psi, and I know that 120 is considered bad. I know I leaned it with the HS screw. The point is, what caused the engine to run bad in the first place. I use pre-mixed bottles of Ultra made for gallon usage, I always poor the oil in the gas can and then add gas.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Aug 28, 2011)

I agree seen easy mistake's happen. Could have over mixe'd, been to rich and run rough. Then leane'd out too much to compensate.


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## shelbythedog (Aug 28, 2011)

There are a lot of loyal Stihl Ultra users on this forum, good luck swaying the crowd. Maybe pics of the damaged pistons/cylinders would help. 

What oil are you going to run in the equipment when it is back togehter?

How did you retune the equipment? By ear? With a tach?

My dealer once mentioned that when switching from dino oil to Ultra, or any other high quality synthetic, failures could result from carbon being loosened up on the piston and breaking loose.


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## Deets066 (Aug 28, 2011)

WHGStihl said:


> I make fresh mixed gas every month (college professor always said that any mixed gas only lasts about a month before it gums) and generally I use a gallon a month. *I did mess with all three carbs*, as the engines were still running crappy after i did normal routine maintenance.
> 
> Parts are coming from Bailey's FYI.


 
Probably your problem :hmm3grin2orange:


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## struggle (Aug 28, 2011)

To the OP please do nto take it the wrong way as many type it often seems like a person is mabye a little harsh in the way something reads here. 

From what you have said it does appear that if you leaned all three motors out for rough running then that would cause all three failures. 

We do not know what you background is with small engines and your tunning capabilities. 

There are some very good threads here about proper tunning two stroke engines on this site that could prove very valuable for future use. I think there is videos as well. 

I run ultra as well and in my 30 years of being around two stroke motors I have only siezed one engine and it was on a hand blower that seized at idle of all things that I left running on a driveway went to grab something came back and it was not running. Tried starting it and it was locked up tight:msp_ohmy:

and I am still learning everday here more info


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## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> There are a lot of loyal Stihl Ultra users on this forum, good luck swaying the crowd. Maybe pics of the damaged pistons/cylinders would help.
> 
> What oil are you going to run in the equipment when it is back togehter?
> 
> ...


 
I am going to run HP Super from now on. I had to go to another dealer to get it, as my main dealer is only selling Ultra. I am using Shell gasoline with 89 octane. (No ethanol)

I took the 192 to the dealer, have not heard back. The 036 I have not torn down yet, I am waiting on the parts to arrive from backorder from Bailey's on September 30 (hopefully sooner). I have a new barrel, piston, and gaskets for the Mantis, and will probably repair tomorrow. I will take pictures. I am going to have to retune with a tach.

Synthetic is a funny thing in my opinion. I will run it in my car all the way around. However I will not run it in an old engine with broken in seals or I absolutely know that it will leak.

Ultra worried me in the beginning with the Biodegradable bullet point on the label. Both Stihl and my dealer said that is when the oil is exposed to air only. Not when it is mixed with gas.


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## struggle (Aug 28, 2011)

If Stihl thought there was a problem with that mix they wouldn't offer an extended one year warranty on their products if you buy the Ultra six pack when you buy a new saw.

Just saying


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## WHGStihl (Aug 28, 2011)

struggle said:


> If Stihl thought there was a problem with that mix they wouldn't offer an extended one year warranty on their products if you buy the Ultra six pack when you buy a new saw.
> 
> Just saying


 
Oh I agree with you, I think Ultra is a revolutionary concept, but it needs to be tested more on a variety of gasoline. Example, I know people can't get 93 Octane in California, as readily as you can in Ohio. However I think Firediver125 has hit the nail on the head. Ultra isn't designed for older machines.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Aug 28, 2011)

Sure the ultra is designed for older machine's. Synthetic has been around as long as many of them it is no knew concept. I was say any reputable synthetic toadya is the best thing going. It's been tested, and tried, and proven for year's. The modern oil is the outcome. Stihl has some of the best engineer's in the world under there roof's. They test the saw's, and oil constantly. That's why they are a top brand. As like anybody with car's, motorcycle's, saw's whatever. Everyone will have a preference. Today's gas had been problem's time, and time again the saw oil maker's take this into account, and constantly try, and improve. Just like making better fuel line's, and carb kit's to compensate.


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## trappermike (Aug 28, 2011)

Only siezed on the exhaust side? Verdict-Lean seizure(Too many causes to list). Why your saws ran bad before could be a million unknown reasons,oh well we all make mistakes,no sense cryin' in our beer anymore,just gotta repair the saws and make sure it doesn't happen again, by checking all possible causes so it doesn't happen again of course.
I don't think I'd blame the oil because there's so many possible causes,I've seen many fatalities blamed on the mix oil,but never proven true,except(In my own opinion only) for Chevron mix oil,I have seen engine damage directly attributable to it quite a few times. There's still a lot of mystery and superstition about oils,each person adamant about their favorite,but I think these days most are pretty good,and I think in an emergency I would use,almost any kind of oil if I HAD to and get away with it briefly,even vegetable oil out of the kitchen cupboard! In fact as an oil additive for 2-strokes for breakin when I build a good motor I add a small amount of Castor oil from the drugstore,works good and smells great,kinda like something yummy cooking. I keep shutting off my saw because I think it's lunchtime??


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## nmurph (Aug 29, 2011)

WHGStihl said:


> Oh I agree with you, I think Ultra is a revolutionary concept, but it needs to be tested more on a variety of gasoline. Example, I know people can't get 93 Octane in California, as readily as you can in Ohio. However I think Firediver125 has hit the nail on the head. Ultra isn't designed for older machines.


 
Your problem has nothing to do with the octane of the fuel you are using with the Ultra. I run Ultra at 50:1 mixed in 91 octane in a variety of old saws. I have not had a single problem with any of them. Stihl recommends 89 or higher, and they don't specify the type of oil. Stihl actually extends their warranty by one yr if you use Ultra exclusively. 

You caused the death of your equipement. You may have had a deeper problem such as an air leak caused, but your tuning accelerated their problems. You have been offered sound input about the source of your problems; if you continue to bury your head in the sand, you will continue to toast two stroke equipment. 

BTW, gas, with or without stabilizer, will last longer than one month.


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## blsnelling (Aug 29, 2011)

Ultra is not your problem. Also, Shell 93 is not ethanol free around Cincy. You can't buy ethanol free pump gas around here period. I wish we could.


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## lone wolf (Aug 29, 2011)

I have been running HP Ultra in all my saws for about a year or more not one seizure .This tells me the oil is working.Maybe you leaned them out too much a seizure on the exhaust side indicates a lean condition and much heat.A seizure on both sides indicates lack of lubrication.


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## Cantdog (Aug 29, 2011)

Well, I'll throw in my $0.02 worth too.....First I am not a Stihl flagwaver..I own only one Stihl product which is 130 Kombi and is where I became involved with Ultra. Basically the only difference between Ultra synth and some other synth oils is the higher level of detergent additives...and as such could have a detrimental effect if use in an older heavily carboned up motor by loosening large chunks of carbon and this could be accelerated by leaned tuning and higher rpm. Other than that.... older schmolder....I don't care how old you motor design may be ultra will not harm it by itself. I have been using ultra with reg (89) pump gas in every saw in my sig with no ill effects. All of these saws have either been completely rebuilt or at least all apart and cleaned internally so they have started off clean inside and ultra keeps then that way. The 630 Jonsered I ported, new piston etc. ran the crap out of it felling and fitting to stove length, 15 full cord of 20" maple and ash. Now thats not a lot of running but constitutes 2 yr worth of firewood for me. I tore the saw down to see what my work looked like after some hard work and was rather astounded at how clean the piston crown, combustion chamber and exhaust post was. There was hardly even any discoloration and most surfaces were as clean as when I put it together. You could barely get a smudge on your finger. Those are my findings in Swedish and American saws anyway. As others have said I believe you tuned your way to this situation or tried to tune away from an already ongoing air/vac leak. However all three motors suddenly developing air leaks at the same time is unlikely. Either way I assure you it was not the Ultra. Not trying to be harsh, just honest with you using only what you have told us of the situation. Good luck...


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## PA Plumber (Aug 29, 2011)

The three motor seizures is bugging me a little.

What do you mean by "running rough?"

Have you had a chance to check the spark arrestor screens?


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## Miles86 (Aug 29, 2011)

Hey;

Can anyone provide a link or document the mandate that retailer gas will switch to 15%? I thought it was going to be an option, for certain model year cars, with E10 still being available.


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## WHGStihl (Aug 29, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> The three motor seizures is bugging me a little.
> 
> What do you mean by "running rough?"
> 
> Have you had a chance to check the spark arrestor screens?


 
Yeah, that's what's bugging me too. And since everyone keeps skipping the fact they were running rough *BEFORE* I adjusted the carbs, that bothers me even more.

The 192 would start and then die after you throttled up. Even if the saw stayed idle for 3-5 minutes.

The Mantis would start fine, run fine, and after 10 minutes it would lose power after throttling up. Never would come back. Thought it was an air leak at the carb, so replaced all lines, carb, and gaskets. Same thing.

The 036 was completely fine, then about 2 weeks ago it wouldn't top out at high speed. I used the 036 service manual, adjusted it, and checked with a tach. Ran fine until I was cutting through a 36 in. Hickory and it just died.

I bore scoped and saw all 3 were scored.


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## PA Plumber (Aug 29, 2011)

Incredibly coincidental, I wonder if you didn't have three problems brewing?


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## ratso (Aug 29, 2011)

I have been using the orange HP oil since it was available.I bought my 260 and the dealer gave me a pack of ultra.I picked the ultra up off the shelf and the oil had started to break down.There were little oil balls on the bottom. The ultra was on my shelf for about one year not opened silver seal in tac.


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## Brushwacker (Aug 29, 2011)

Oil is not the problem. From whats been said, you adjusted all 3 carbs the wrong way, leaned it out, had lean seizures. I'd bet you had bad gas, possibly water or some other contaminant got in your can somehow or it came from the pump that way. (Anybody else having problems with gas from that station ? Still have the fuel they seized on ?, pour it in a clean, clear container and examine it for content. I don't expect you used a 1 gallon mix bottle of ultru in 2 gallons of gas or grabbed the wrong gas jug but it happens... ) Anyway, leaning it out made it run leaner and hotter hasting the seizure. If your equipment isn't running right, shut it down, until you, or a qualified mechanic, find and fix the problem, or that's what happens.
Nothing wrong with sticking with what works, but sometimes a change may upgrade things. Way out advantages and disadvantages and go for what is more beneficial to your situation.


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## MacLaren (Aug 29, 2011)

What about mix that has ethanol gas in it. I realize that Stihl Ultra has an additive to combat the ethanol (if you will) and I also know about Stabil. But I too have heard that any mix with ethanol gas in it should be used with a 1 month time frame. I myself use only non ethanol gas. I ask this only because some of my friends just do not have access to non-ethanol gas. 
BTW, they were the ones that told me that mix with ethanol gas regardless of stabilizers should be used within 1 month.


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## JustinM (Aug 29, 2011)

End of the day, you're going to get a lot of different answers.

I think most guys are right though, you burned up your saws by adjusting the carbs too lean - and i think you've agreed this yourself - but the question you seem to still have is _'why were they running too hot'_ and I cant really give you an answer there without looking at the saws myself. My initial thought would be that there isnt anything wrong with the oil- but that the mix wasnt accurate. Is it possible you were running them at something other than 50:1/40:1 ? It happens - but obviously it would probably have to be pretty far out of whack to cause that much damage. 

Most of us have our favorites (some like Stihl, some like husky, amsol - myself I have switched to Echo 2stroke at 40:1) but as long as you are using a quality grade oil & mixing it right, there really shouldnt be any sort of issue, no matter the brand. 

As for the length of time for gas to go "bad" - everyone is sort of right. Gas turning bad has a lot of factors. First off how old it is when you get it (i know a small independent station around here that has some nasty smelling gas right from the pump!!) next, how long it sits, also the ethanol content, how you store it and finally whether you stabilize it. 

Gas with any of the pro mixes in them will be stabilized (i think all of them have stabilizer in them) but obviously this just slows down the deterioration process. One thing Ive noticed is that a sealed metal can in a cool place (ie dark corner of a garage) will last a lot longer than one in the new-style plastic jerry cans. 


Anyway, really sorry to hear about your saws burning up. Hopefully you only fried the pistons & the cylinders can still be saved.


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## nmurph (Aug 29, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> What about mix that has ethanol gas in it. I realize that Stihl Ultra has an additive to combat the ethanol (if you will) and I also know about Stabil. But I too have heard that any mix with ethanol gas in it should be used with a 1 month time frame. I myself use only non ethanol gas. I ask this only because some of my friends just do not have access to non-ethanol gas.
> BTW, they were the ones that told me that mix with ethanol gas regardless of stabilizers should be used within 1 month.


 
Here are a couple of reads-

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf


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## MacLaren (Aug 29, 2011)

nmurph said:


> Here are a couple of reads-
> 
> http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf
> 
> http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf


 
Thanks Neil, I'll print these off and give them to the guys.


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## komatsuvarna (Aug 29, 2011)

Ive ran either husky xp or stihl ultra for the last 3 years with 10% ethanol shell fuel. I cant get non ethanol gas. I mix it 50:1 and have had no problems due to gas. Its been run in makita and stihl cut off saws, old and new huskys, and several weed wackers.

Stihl oil isnt the problem here.


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## rob066 (Aug 29, 2011)

WHGStihl said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else is having this issue or not (and I'm guessing people are/should be). In one month, I have had an 036 Pro, 192T, and just cause a Mantis Tiller 50:1 all bite the big one and have scored bores. I noticed the engines were running rough, and would have to adjust the carb slightly. In the long run, something was causing the engine to run hot, and I was most likely doing is making the engine run leaner. The one thing between all 3 that I have switched is from HP Super to HP Ultra with 93 Octane gas. I know that Stihl only requires 89, however, the dealer told me when I switched that 93 is better in 2-cycles. When I questioned the dealer (and an e-mail to Stihl) they say that Ultra is the best, and should have no change other than cleaner running engines.
> 
> One thing that the dealer has said was that ethanol content in gas will be increasing from 10 to 15% by Jan 1, 2012. He recommended using ethanol free gasoline from Shell to mix with the Ultra. However, a warning he also said is that any engine made prior to 2007, with a carburetor will have issues after Jan 1.
> 
> Is anyone else in the same boat? I'm rebuilding the 036, and just bought a brand new 362 because parts for the 036 won't be in till the end of September.


 
My question is did three sezures come from the same gas? How do you store your gas? With improper storage Ethanol gas will absorb moisture from the air because of the alcohol. Ethanol gas is best kept in a cool dry place in a tight sealed container. The warmer the air the higher the moisture content for ethanol gas to absorb moisture from the air. Maybe the ethonol in the gas had absorbed excessive moisture from the air. Water separates oil from gas. I use nothing but HP Ultra oil in my saws never had a problem. And let me tell you I dont baby them what so ever. I am picky about how I store my gas. Maybe look at your gas storage practices! I work part time for a tree service. The individual I work for had gas in the back of his truck. We put it in a MS 460 he has. It ran like crap. I mean sputtering one moment and cranking to the moon the next. I told him to toss the gas. We put new gas in it it purred like a kitten.


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## redoakneck (Aug 29, 2011)

All gas around Cincinnati has ethanol in it and the pumps are not required to label ethanol anymore. I use ultra in new and old saws, no problemo.

Country Mark in Liberty Indiana may have ethanol free gas in their 90+ pumps, was tested end of July-- puregas.org


I also have a mantis that started running bad and it was the primer bulb, had a leak that was very hard to see and it would still prime the carb!!!!


Where you at in Cincy???


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

Regarding mix oils again,I was reading another thread and the comment that Eyolf made (Thread is "Black fuel showed up again"), he discovered someone is routinely using old black crankcase oil for mix oil at 20-1 in all his equipment and outboard motor too,read it if you need a good laugh!

And you guys are debating ultimate mix oils... No need to waste your money,just drain it out of your car or truck,not too clean burning apparantly though,but hell it's free- the guy's been doing it for years,with old gas to boot.


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## Clarkbug (Aug 31, 2011)

WHGStihl said:


> Yeah, that's what's bugging me too. And since everyone keeps skipping the fact they were running rough *BEFORE* I adjusted the carbs, that bothers me even more.
> 
> The 192 would start and then die after you throttled up. Even if the saw stayed idle for 3-5 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
Is this the first time that you used any Ultra? What oil were you using before? Was this a new gas can, or one that had stuff in the bottom of it? Any other additives used? 

It sounds like if you are comfortable replacing lines, gaskets, taching things, etc., the equipment was in fairly good shape.


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 31, 2011)

WHGStih What dealer are you dealing with? I know most of them in the Cincinnati area. If you need help adjust the carbs on your equipment, or finding out what happened to your equipment just let me know and I'll help you out. 

1. Completely ignore anyone that says modern 2 cycle oil won't mix with today's fuels, synthetic or convention. These people lack the knowledge to fully understand the difference between the two. 

2. The type of oil is not the cause of the problems, it rarely ever is, unless you don't use any lol. Ultra is one of the best two cycles made today, end of story.

3. Temperature/weather changes can cause running issues, when this happens you need someone that knows what their going to tune the carb for you.


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## GASoline71 (Aug 31, 2011)

firediver125 said:


> I talked to my boys at the stihl dealer here that I use religiously, and when I asked about the HP Ultra oil compared to the High Performance oil here is what I was told. The HP ULTRA oil was designed to work better with the new 4mix motors, the Ultra oil was made because of the new emission BS. It will work in the all stihl products, HOWEVER, The older Stihl equipment was designed to work with the standard High Performance oil(hence the term High Performance). Therefore you should continue to use the oil that the products you have were designed to use. And they said if you have been running them on the regular HP oil, and aren't having any problems, don't switch. Stick with what works and what they were designed for.
> 
> The only thing that we use the Ultra in is two 4mix weedeaters, and FS90, and an FS110. I hate those two compared to my FS85 PRO, I would have the 2cycle over the other two anyday.


 
I use Ultra in EVERYTHING from 40 year old saws to 4 month old saws... mixed at 50:1... no problems at all... ever. The Ultra is fullsynthetic that was designed when the 4mix motors came out. But can be safely used in anything. Your dealer is full of BS.

Gary


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## superwd6 (Aug 31, 2011)

The new gas you bought is your problem NOT the oil. We in Ontario have 94 Octane gas . A friend & I both had the same problem after trying the 94 . Bikes spit, sputtered and ran like crap (liquid cooled dirt & 2002 Hardley Ableson!). That fuel smelled like pure alcohol. Now I only run 91 octane & have not issues. Put some of your mix in a glass jar and see if anything settles. I'd be dumping the fuel & going to a different station.


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## SteveH (Aug 31, 2011)

The rough running part could indicate too rich a fuel/air mix. But the "too hot" part would say to me "too lean." Of course, there are numerous reasons the engines could run roughly. An engine running too rich would more likely be too cool and need leaning. 

99.999% chance the engines were running too lean to begin with, for unknown reason(s). By leaning out the engines to attempt to cure the roughness, they were killed off pronto. 

[Note: I did this once, so I am guilty. I only did it once, it cost me a very nice saw and I felt pretty ridiculous when I realized what and how I'd done to the saw.]

The fact that all three engines exhibited similar problems prior to the leaning attempt at fix, something common to all three is likely the problem, such as fuel, which has already been suggested numerous times. Unless someone doesn't like you and messed up all carb settings on purpose, though I doubt that's it.

On the other hand, I only barely know squat.


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## JayC (Aug 31, 2011)

WHGStihl said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else is having this issue or not (and I'm guessing people are/should be). In one month, I have had an 036 Pro, 192T, and just cause a Mantis Tiller 50:1 all bite the big one and have scored bores.


 
50:1 is not enough oil, IMHO, especially for a bitty engine like a chainsaw that runs WFO all the time. I generally run roughly 25:1 in my saws, and never less than 32:1 (32:1 only when using a high-performance oil like Yamalube).

JayC


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## PA Plumber (Aug 31, 2011)

JayC said:


> 50:1 is not enough oil, IMHO, especially for a bitty engine like a chainsaw that runs WFO all the time. I generally run roughly 25:1 in my saws, and never less than 32:1 (32:1 only when using a high-performance oil like Yamalube).
> 
> JayC


 
Hmmmm. Do you work for an oil or spark plug company?


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 31, 2011)

JayC said:


> 50:1 is not enough oil, IMHO, especially for a bitty engine like a chainsaw that runs WFO all the time. I generally run roughly 25:1 in my saws, and never less than 32:1 (32:1 only when using a high-performance oil like Yamalube).
> 
> JayC


 
I run 32:1 myself, but mostly because I run ported saws. 50:1 is fine in stock equipment. Overcompensating for bad tuning or an air leak gets you nowhere.
25:1 is way too much oil in a normal chainsaw.


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Aug 31, 2011)

i always have ,and will run 40:1 synthetic, and never have any issues. i run it in old and new saws alike,i have 30 yr old stihls that have never been apart yet.


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## GASoline71 (Aug 31, 2011)

JayC said:


> 50:1 is not enough oil, IMHO, especially for a bitty engine like a chainsaw that runs WFO all the time. I generally run roughly 25:1 in my saws, and never less than 32:1 (32:1 only when using a high-performance oil like Yamalube).
> 
> JayC


 
You using crappy oil? No need to use those old barbaric mix ratios anymore.

But... if you like fouled lugs and carbon buildup... they're your saws.

Gary


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## 2dogs (Aug 31, 2011)

Running rough snd too hot? That makes no sense. What makes you say the saw was hot? So you leaned the saws etc out and killed them. It's your fault unless you had bad gas from the start. You can't blame Stihl for your failure as a mechanic.

BTW I don't like Stihl Ultra, I run Opti 2 at 100:1 and have for nearly 10 years in new saws and an old 090. No problems.


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## Brushwacker (Aug 31, 2011)

Originally Posted by JayC 
50:1 is not enough oil, IMHO, especially for a bitty engine like a chainsaw that runs WFO all the time. I generally run roughly 25:1 in my saws, and never less than 32:1 (32:1 only when using a high-performance oil like Yamalube).

JayC


PA Plumber said:


> Hmmmm. Do you work for an oil or spark plug company?


 
If you don't choke your engine with clogged air filters, and keep your carb adjusted to the enviroment spark plug fouling isn't a problem. I run 15 to 1 to 28 to 1 from the late seventies until now for the most part. I don't remember fouling a plug of my own since my first motorcycle in 1973. I didn't know enough to clean the air filter and did the break in in the manual, (not exceeding 4000 rpms. etc.). In fact I know an old farm boy that cut more then a little wood with an Echo 660 since the mid 1980's and about 2 years ago we were looking at his saw and it still had the original spark plug with orange echo paint. His dad an airplane mechanic + taught him to mix 1 quart of motor oil to a 5 gallon can of gas ( 20 to 1 ) and shake it up before each use and my friend said he always to this day mixes his that way with shell rotella and never has had a problem. About 2 to 3 years after his Dad died we drug his JD 70v out from under the work bench and I insisted he change gas before trying to start it after that amount of time it but he just shook it up in the saw a bit and it fired in little more then a few pulls and run fine.
I am not saying everybody should do likewise because the benefits each individual is looking for aren't the same. If your running a new saw and expect the warranty to be valid, follow the rules, can't keep your saw tuned at 25 to 1 ( I can ) better use something else. Not so good quality oils leave more carbon then good oil with fresh gas and sometimes significant enouh to cause a problem. Not so good oil likely could not be enough lubrication at 50 to 1 in extreme conditions and likely could ruin your engine way faster then some carbon build up would. People want to blame oil for this and that and so have I, but its usually something else they neglected by far the biggest problem. 
If find a good synthetic at a good price I might switch to 40 to 1. I like the idea of less smoke and carbon even though I haven't been having enough to be a problem with either in my personal equipment. I buy,sell and trade several chainsaws a year and I've gotten many that were fairly loaded with carbon and most often a clogged air filter to boot. Probably how they were kept most their life. I went from 24 to 1 to 28 to 1 (5oz to a gallon of premium) about a year ago, I did wreck an 044 engine using some very old Stihl oil but I am not sure the cause as I did some amature work to the ports prior. I quit using the old oil and went back to what I usually buy, I think its Champion 2 cycle for air cooled that I have been using most for the last 10 or more years with no problems. 50 to 1 synthetic goes in my 4 mix and I'd probably use it if I bought a saw under warranty. I could use it for every thing but I lean towards extra lubrication with out any problems, especially in engines with high hours.


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## 2dogs (Aug 31, 2011)

Brushwacker said:


> Originally Posted by JayC
> 50:1 is not enough oil, IMHO, especially for a bitty engine like a chainsaw that runs WFO all the time. I generally run roughly 25:1 in my saws, and never less than 32:1 (32:1 only when using a high-performance oil like Yamalube).
> 
> JayC
> ...


 
Extra lubrication? No. Decreased "octane" and increased risk of detonation? Yes.

Your post just describes what you want to believe and not what actually happens.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Aug 31, 2011)

Iv'e seen oil, and ratio's evolve. Anywhere from 16:1 to 100:1 The 50:1 mix is built to run in any saw even old with the carb re- adjusted. To much oil will have the same scoring, and result's as a lean seize. Just a much slower death. Peak in take a look at the carbon pocket's. I have been running 50:1 Since the mixture's introduction could all the engineer's, saw mechanich's, bike mechanic's, Stihl, and all the top brand's be wrong? Do they want you to blow it up as to switch to another saw brand. I doubt it LOL!


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 31, 2011)

2dogs said:


> Extra lubrication? No. Decreased "octane" and increased risk of detonation? Yes.
> 
> Your post just describes what you want to believe and not what actually happens.


 
And I've seen the results of not running enough oil as well. You do know Opti 2 is not recommended to be ran at 100:1 it's also not a fully synthetic oil. 100:1 mixes have been proven not to work, especially with today's fuels. 

Here is a piston out of a saw that was running 100:1 mix. The saw was still running well before the tear down, a few more minutes of run time and boom.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 1, 2011)

Mow here is a picture of a well used piston from a saw running on 32:1 mix. You can still see most of the machining marks.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Sep 1, 2011)

Even back in Amsoil 100:1 Day's I alway's went 50:1 50:1 is proven. 32:1 used to be the normall when the oil was made for that mix. If it say's 50 im running it!


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## Brushwacker (Sep 1, 2011)

2dogs said:


> Extra lubrication? No. Decreased "octane" and increased risk of detonation? Yes.
> 
> Your post just describes what you want to believe and not what actually happens.


 Your the 1 that believes what you want to believe. I'm not going to deny common sense and experience or will I claim to know it all. I took a lot of peoples words over my experience in the past and found that experience is a more reliable teacher.
Oils a lubricant. Yes extra lubrication. Try putting 1 drop of oil on a piece of dry unlubricated metal and mate another piece to it and rub them together,then try 10 drops of the same oil. More oil will give you less friction, thus less heat, less resistance, not to mention other benifits. My understanding of octane is it cools thus less pre ignition in hard working engines. In my motorcycle racing days I could easily tell the differance using high octane vs less,(pinging or pre ignition from heat with less octane, same in cars and trucks under load) and I run 15 to 1 Castrol 2 cycle. A lot of racers were going to 40 to 1 etc. and a lot of them were re ringing their pistons every 2 or 3 races also. At the end of the year I pulled my top ends and still had good rings and some carbon but not enough it caused me problems in a years worth of combined motorcross racing,practicing and intense trail riding.


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## madhatte (Sep 1, 2011)

I wanna know how much of that gas wasn't gas. I'm thinking water. Lean that kind of mixture at all and you're asking for trouble.


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## Justsaws (Sep 1, 2011)

Anybody want to use a their shiney new automatically ajustling fuel saving stratoed Huskys and Stihls at 100:1 87 octane 10%E pump gas?

Opti first than Ams and some Purple wallet waster and finally Stihl's new and improved "give us all your money now b!!!!s" oil.

Forgot Klotz, oh well put it in there between the Opti and the Amsoil and hopefully it will help scrub the Opti residue off and help the Ams run longer.


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## subhunter (Sep 1, 2011)

I do not have a dog in this fight, but i just noticed on the stihl web site that the HP ultra says"This oil is biodegradable, degrading by 80% in 21 days".
Does that mean that 80% oil is gone in 21 days or what? That has me a bit confused.otstir:


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## NWCanuk (Sep 1, 2011)

subhunter said:


> I do not have a dog in this fight, but i just noticed on the stihl web site that the HP ultra says"This oil is biodegradable, degrading by 80% in 21 days".
> Does that mean that 80% oil is gone in 21 days or what? That has me a bit confused.otstir:


 
I am thinking if asked they would reply. Bio degradable when exposed to air as in either after combustion has occurred or if you were to pour it out on the ground. Either way properly mixed and stored in an air tight container you would think that it would be stable. Even Stihl recommends only mixing what you can use is one session (yeah right). And also disposing of any mix that has been around longer then 3 months. I think they are just covering their …


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## rwbinbc (Oct 3, 2011)

I've lost a 192t and a 260pro in the last month. The 192t had a bad intake boot, Wouldn't idle but we ran it anyways ran lean and scored it up. Didn't know about the boot untill I tore it apart, I think the seals are bad to. The 260pro IDK?, The only thing I can think of is running it to much. It would run out of gas and be cutting again within 2-3 minutes. It was running for two months, 6 days a week at least 6 hours a day. Had a 3/8" bar so that probly didn't help out. I use only stihl oil and plan on mixing a little more from now on. 40 or 45:1. Wasn't bad gas as it didn't touch the 441. 

I put the 192 back together and it willn't idle now. Runs good just not idling. replacing the seals and reassemabling it again tomorrow. Hope all goes well.


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## indiansprings (Oct 4, 2011)

Sure doesn't have anything to do with the Ultra mix.lol We'll burn between 5 and 10 gallons a week 4 1/2 months out of a year. All of it is mixed with Ultra and 89 octane pump gas. Not one issue in the last three years with Ultra, mix it 50:1. Imho, it sure creates less carbon than the dino oil based on what I've seen on the bench in my local shop. Why does Stihl offer to double the warranty on a new saw purchase when you also buy a six pack of Ultra at the time of the saw purchase?

I hate to say it, put the issue was the hand turning the screwdriver. Lean them out and you'll fry them every time, seen it happen to all too often in my lifetime. It's never the fault of the "tuner", it's either a pos piece of equipment, or in this case the oil. We use it on all our two stroke equipment of all brands, including a mantis tiller, four mix string trimmers, chain saws, leaf blowers, pole saws, and never an issue.
How do you know it caused them to run hotter, use a laser temp gun? If so how much hotter did the Ultra cause them to run? 
Need to get you a tach and tune them inline with factory specs, a 70-80 dollar investment in a tach will save you a bundle in the long run. Some of these newer strato saws seem harder for me to tune by ear, it's just good insurance to use a tach or pay the dealer 10.00 to tune them.


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## one.man.band (Oct 4, 2011)

as long as there was required amount of pre-mix.... i'm siding with those being the culprit being a bad jug of gasoline from the station.

we have had mucho amounts of rain and flooding around here, and i stay away from the stations with underground tanks in the flood prone areas. 

much like everyone else i run: Coleman Fuel with a tablespoon or two of high quality vegetable oil. preferably Wesson or extra virgin olive oil.


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## cjnspecial (Oct 4, 2011)

When I switched some old saws to ultra, they would smoke and run funny for a little while and eventually level off after burning off all the old crud. I'm thinking your saws were doing the same thing and possibly plugged the muffler screens up or knocked some carbon loose. Adjusting the carbs further exacerbated the problem. 
Or you just got some bad gas. Best of luck on rebuilds.


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## donjr5 (Oct 5, 2011)

much like everyone else i run: Coleman Fuel with a tablespoon or two of high quality vegetable oil. preferably Wesson or extra virgin olive oil.[/QUOTE said:


> I guess the grooves on the piston and cylinder wall mesh so well the engine still runs!
> The average consumer should never need to adjust modern 2-cycle carbs. If it doesn't run right, check for other problems (ignition, fuel quality, filter/fuel line condition or fuel quality).
> Stihl Ultra is time proven, lab & field proven. Stihl does, however, recommend HP Super (dinosaur oil, orange bottle) for big, high revving saws, MS440 and up.


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## one.man.band (Oct 5, 2011)

WGHStihl..... sorry about your saws.

without seeing the pistons and or plugs this would be almost impossible to diagnose.

for lack of better photos, this site shows common piston/ring failures in 2 strokes:

Reading Pistons

(sorry....i do not know how to post direct links).

my guess is still bad gas/water contamination for the initial cause. one of the photos does show this. 

many other photos show lubrication issues. 

could you tell us which photo your piston most resembles?

is this biodegradable ULTRA OIL made of castor beans base like 2 cycle oils of old? the old bean oil did have a short life span. i'm not implying anything for/against this brand of oil.....just curious.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 6, 2011)

one.man.band said:


> WGHStihl..... sorry about your saws.
> 
> without seeing the pistons and or plugs this would be almost impossible to diagnose.
> 
> ...


 
Ultra is an ester syn oil, not castor racing oil. All true synthetic oils are biodegradable to a point, it comes down to the add packs. The oil will only breakdown when spread thin and exposed to air, in a closed container it will last years. Ultra will not cause any issues, end of story, move on.


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## DSS (Oct 6, 2011)

I love oil threads.


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## tdi-rick (Oct 6, 2011)

DSS said:


> I love oil threads.



 I try and resist, but like a moth to a flame.........


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## one.man.band (Oct 6, 2011)

hmmm...

wrote that water contamination could be culprit. did not mention brand of oil being so.

sometimes..... a saw or any motor could start and run with water mixed into the gas. if it does start, it will not run well at all. with 2 stroke motors in particular...phase separation of water to fuel/premix occurs. when the the motor with water in the fuel runs at high rpm it is running with limited or no oil.....

ask anyone with a boat.

trying to help the guy who lost hundreds of dollars of equipment is all.

moving on.


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## SPDRMNKY (Oct 6, 2011)

OP...all 3 running cruddy all of a sudden sounds like a bad batch of gas...try a different station...one that does lots of business

and because I haven't seen it posted in awhile...

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


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## GASoline71 (Oct 15, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> I just registered to post to this. Do not under any circumstances run gas with ethanol in it on the older Stihls. I did that once with my 026 and after 5 minutes (I was REALLY new to chainsaws back then) it quit from being so hot. You might get away with Eth in newer saws such as the 170 (I haven't tried it but I own one.) I'm no expert on the subject but it's always seemed like eth just destroys the older saws from what I have read. Also I've used both the silver and orange and the only real difference you'll see is an extended warranty on new gear when you buy it through your dealer and it's a little nicer on the plant life (like if you dump it on some grass on accident) other than that it runs just as good as the orange stuff. Both oils say they pack fuel stabilizers and they have to because my grandfather left a lot of his stuff laying around before I took over and believe it or not that stuff was still good. I personally recommend adding 1oz of Stabil to all of your 1gal batches as it'll help prevent eth problems and has some carb cleaning properties it's also relatively cheap compared to what eth can do to small engines. I seriously hope whoever wins the next election kicks the EPA in the head because so far all they've managed to do is ruin thousands of perfectly fine chainsaws, cars, etc. If you're wondering about using lower octane non eth gas go ahead we've been using 82 oct eth free from Caseys (They ship their gas from Illinois I think.) and our equipment has ran well. There is always the option of using the high oct stuff right from stihl for like.. 7.99 a bottle.
> 
> tl;dr version
> Ethanol bad for older stihl saws
> ...


 
HAHAHAHA! 

I've been using E10 as long as it's been around. All my saws run like tops. Even the 40 year old saws. I also run 50:1 Ultra oil mix too. Works just fine in all my saws... even the ones that are 40 years old.

If you're havin' problems to the point you're continually smokin' saws... it's not the oil. It's either how you're mixin' it, or how well your saws are maintained.

Gary


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## s219 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yeah, I have been running ethanol gas in a 40 year old saw with no problems. I do drain the tank and run it dry for storage, however. The main issues with ethanol gas come from it having a short shelf life.


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## Fish (Nov 4, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> I didn't smoke the saw it just overheated, and ran again when I let it cool off and switched to non-eth gas. While I stand by the personal experience of Ethanol being bad for most small engines, especially older pre-2000 engines, I will admit that you can run it. The ethanol makes the engines run leaner and hotter, but also has it's own host of problems such as it's love for water and it's corrosive properties. You can richen the fuel mixture to compensate for the leaning but your engine will still run hotter compared to normal gas. The other problems like corrosion and water can be mitigated via what a previous poster said by making sure to never leave fuel in the tank and carb, Stabil can still help in this area as well. You will have to be very diligent with maintenance and keeping the tank dry if you use gas with ethanol. Although I do have an MS170 that runs okay on E10 with proper maintenance.



What did you say to get all of this neg. rep?


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## jdemaris (Nov 5, 2011)

trappermike said:


> Regarding mix oils again,I was reading another thread and the comment that Eyolf made (Thread is "Black fuel showed up again"), he discovered someone is routinely using old black crankcase oil for mix oil at 20-1 in all his equipment and outboard motor too,read it if you need a good laugh!



Even up into the late 80s, Stihl allowed 30W motor oil mixed a 20 or 25-1 in new saws. It wasn't preferred, but WAS allowed and worked fine. Now used oil? I suspect it would work just as well if clean and you actually knew it was 30W or 40W. I use mine for bar oil or burning in my diesel tractors.

As to gas mix going bad in few months? That's silly. Yeah, gasoline turns when exposed to air. Last pretty long when not. I just started up my Datsun 280Z with 5 year old gasoline that was treated once with Stabil. I've also seen untreated gas go bad in one year when exposed to air and sunlight.

I own several remote properties that I don't get to often. At all, I've got 5 gallon gas/oil mix for my chain saws left there. I often leave it for 6-8 months, then come and use it and it's fine. No problems. I DO treat with Stabil.

About two-stroke oil. To me, most important is two factors. Anti-wear ingredients and flash-point. Many makers do not post these specs for air-cooled rated oil. Flast-point is the temperature when oil stops being oil and gives zero lube. Omni oil sold as Stihl Ultra has a flash point of 428 degrees F which is pretty good. Note though that Shell Rotella 30W oil made from pure petro has a 430 F flash point. Ammsoil Saber is 248 F. Pennzoil Multipurpose two-stroke oil is 212 F.

Now, Stihl "Universal" two-stroke oil has a flash-point of only 160 degrees which is a joke.

The accepted standard for air-cooled two-stroke oil in the USA is API-TC. Many saws now call for the European standard of JASO FC or FD. Or ISO-L-EGD.

Some of these newer standards are about less smoke and higher detergency and not better lube. 

I've been running 20 to 1 in all my saws for many years, regardless if they are 60 years old or 1 year old as long as they have carbs that can be adjusted. Put too much oil in a new saw that you cannot adjust, and it might suffer from a lean mixture. More oil and less gas per given volume results in a leaner air-fuel ratio in a standard carb.


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## splitpost (Nov 5, 2011)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> there's your problem.



problem solved,rep sent,
Oh yeah i run 25:1 in all my saws ,why?........because stihl Australia can be real a$$holes with their warranty on big saws if you dont


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## ZeroJunk (Nov 5, 2011)

Local saw shop guy who has been working on small engines for decades tested gas from several stations a couple of years ago and some of the gas was 25% ethanol. At that time they were mixing it when it was delivered. The tanker driver would dump his gas and then add pure ethanol from another tank is the way it was explained to me. Now I think they mix it at the tank farm so it should be more precise. But, I still am not comfortable that you are always getting 10% or whatever. I haven't lost a piston due to gas or oil related problems, but I avoid ethanol if possible. There is still a local ditributor selling ethanol free.

I have run quite a bit of Ultra as well as dino. I can't tell any difference in the way the saws run. But, eventually the Ultra will be cleaner. I have had saws in here that have been completely worn out and the piston was still in good shape running regular oil. So, I don't know that it makes much difference.

I suspect a lot of these failures have more to do with running lean than the gas or oil in the mix.


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## indiansprings (Nov 5, 2011)

I agree 110% with Gasoline 71, it is either a tuning issue or someone is incorrectly mixing the fuel. I run 7-10 gallon of mix a week, Stihl Ultra and 10% ethanol, been using it since it came out. Can't buy real gas close enough to me to make it worth the effort. Burn it in every two cycle engine we own, some are 40+ years old. I've even left it in my string trimmers all winter and they fire up and run fine in the spring. 
These post always come around every so often, I wonder how so many of us continue to make a living with saws, mixing Ultra 50:1 with ethanol, I've not once has a engine failure related to Ultra or the gas I'm using. I've had to replace a couple of fuel lines on older equipment which is usually necessecary anyway. Run clean fuel, mix accurately, if you aren't tuning with a tach, get you one, keep the spark arrestor screens clean, use as fresh as fuel as possible and life will get much simpler. I really believe more saws/two cycles are ruined by too many guys trying to tune their own, tuning too lean resulting in cooked equipment.
Some of these strato's, choked down mufflers, limited coils are harder for me to tune by ear, that and I'm half deaf from running this stuff for years with no hearing protection, a tach really helps me these days.


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## spacemule (Nov 5, 2011)

The real question is, did the op stop after three engines because he figured he needed to figure out what the hell he was doing, or because he ran out of working motors to fry. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ZeroJunk (Nov 6, 2011)

> If someone could tell me some tricks of using ethanol fuel




Google Startron.


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## komatsuvarna (Nov 6, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> Heh who knows I just hope he figured out his own way to conquer the ethanol issue or found some non-eth gas to run. If he didn't then I'd hate to see that repair bill.
> 
> I really hope that the government craps enough cash into cellulose ethanol to get it going HOT. Then they can offer a rebate or something to trade cars in for Ethanol optimized vehicles that can run 100% ethanol. Then we can keep the rest of our dino juice for small engines, do similar rebates and conversions, or do what germany does and run white gas in our saws.
> 
> ...




Been running it since it came out, its all thats available here. Like Indiansprings, I've left it in stuff for seasons at a time with no trouble. In the last year Ive been running it in ported saws with ultra oil, aint had a problem yet.

I know there are problems with ethanol sometimes, but IMO 90% of the time its just an escape goat!


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## 2dogs (Nov 6, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> I just registered to post to this. Do not under any circumstances run gas with ethanol in it on the older Stihls. I did that once with my 026 and after 5 minutes (I was REALLY new to chainsaws back then) it quit from being so hot. You might get away with Eth in newer saws such as the 170 (I haven't tried it but I own one.) I'm no expert on the subject but it's always seemed like eth just destroys the older saws from what I have read. Also I've used both the silver and orange and the only real difference you'll see is an extended warranty on new gear when you buy it through your dealer and it's a little nicer on the plant life (like if you dump it on some grass on accident) other than that it runs just as good as the orange stuff. Both oils say they pack fuel stabilizers and they have to because my grandfather left a lot of his stuff laying around before I took over and believe it or not that stuff was still good. I personally recommend adding 1oz of Stabil to all of your 1gal batches as it'll help prevent eth problems and has some carb cleaning properties it's also relatively cheap compared to what eth can do to small engines. I seriously hope whoever wins the next election kicks the EPA in the head because so far all they've managed to do is ruin thousands of perfectly fine chainsaws, cars, etc. If you're wondering about using lower octane non eth gas go ahead we've been using 82 oct eth free from Caseys (They ship their gas from Illinois I think.) and our equipment has ran well. There is always the option of using the high oct stuff right from stihl for like.. 7.99 a bottle.
> 
> tl;dr version
> Ethanol bad for older stihl saws
> ...



Nonsense. Here in California all gasoline has alcohol in it and it works fine in chainsaws. There are things the prudent man will do such as running the saw dry before storage or mixing only enough gas that can be used in say a month. Rubber components will not last as long as they did in the 1960s. You run what works for you but be careful about giving advice that is contrary to what works for others.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 6, 2011)

Oh snap! All my Stihls are doomed! I've been usin' ethanol gas for years... wonder why they haven't blown up yet?

2puppies outlined it short and sweet. read and heed what he said. 

But to give out blatant misinformation and to preach doomsday for a specific brand of saws is silly.

Gary


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## SteveH (Nov 6, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> So you've been running it in your saws with no changes?




A lot of us are. Or, it seems that way from reading posts. My oldest saw is an 036 from I think about '99. My newest two are a 441 and a 211 bought in the past two yr. I have done nothing at all except put gas/oil mix [either regular Stihl or Ultra, depending on what I grab off my shelf as I have bottles of each up there] and have had no issues. I don't even think about it. 

Not saying there are no issues with ethanol, just that I haven't seen any in my stuff.


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## ZeroJunk (Nov 6, 2011)

Ethanol does add a variable that wasn't there before. If through your enviornment, attention to storage and containers, bad gas station, etc. you allow a lot of moisture to be exposed to your gas there is a possibility that you can get some pockets of bad mix. This is just something to consider. If I am running ethanol, outboard motor or saw, I shake the #### out of the can. Makes me feel better.

There is a lot of smoke about ethanol related engine problems and I suspect there is a tad of fire there somewhere.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 6, 2011)

My oldest Stihl that I currently have is my 044... from 1993. It has been run usin' E10 gas since E10 gas has been around. 92 octane. Never ever had an issue with overheating or power loss. Not even water in the tank. It's been sittin' on the shelf in the shop for 2 months with a half a tank in it... I can walk out and start it, and cut just fine.

The oldest Stihl I had awhile back was an 056 Super... same deal... always run with 92 octane E10. Saw was a friggin' beast... never an issue.

Gary


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## sunfish (Nov 6, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> Hmm that's pretty confidence boosting. I got a question though, would switching to a higher octane cause a saw to run hotter before being adjusted? I run *82 OCT* and I switched to the 92 OCT because I too as the op said heard it was better for 2strokes.



I've never seen 82 oct?

I ran 87-91 with eth for years and a bunch of it, with never a problem.

I buy 91 non-eth now, just because I can and I don't care for the ethanol political BS.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 6, 2011)

Every 2 stroke I've ever owend (from dirt bikes, to saws, to weed eaters...) has been run on 91 or 92 octane fuel.

Gary


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## sunfish (Nov 6, 2011)

Kurt Barry said:


> Hmm I really just dunno I don't think octane would affect running temperature, but I do know eth makes engines run leaner because of the oxygen ethanol introduces. Ethanol also varies between fillups at the pump so adjusting the carb has to be done pretty often. Do you adjust the carb often Gas? I'd like to switch to gas I know is E10 just so I'll be on the up and up and know how it works. I don't have to adjust my carburetor much.



I've never had to adjust carb between eth gas and non-eth. Never noticed any diff in how a saw ran between the two.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 6, 2011)

The saw I use the most is my 044. The carb on that saw hasn't been touched in at least 5 years. I think you're overengineeering your thought process.

Gary


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## sunfish (Nov 6, 2011)

I have also never noticed any diff between 87, 89 or 91 octane gas, in how my saws run...

But my outboard motor does run better on 91 non-eth.


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## ZeroJunk (Nov 6, 2011)

Some guys like to run their saws on the edge of max RPM and still four stroking no load. If that is the case you need to pay close attention to it. If you back off a few hundred RPM which you will never notice time wise working then it's not a worry.


Saying that there have never been any ethanol related failures is just as misguided as saying that ethanol always causes failures.


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