# Just some pics



## Nailsbeats (Mar 16, 2008)

I took Nitro, a good friend of mine, to a tree job today. He took a few pics of me in a red oak so I thought I would throw them up. The job consisted of deadwooding, removals and trims. It was a classic "go through every tree on the property" kind of deal. The job was for a professional photographer who was snapping shots left and right, seriously outgunning Nitro. Nitro did make a good skidder though.























We knocked out 6 1/2 face cord of firewood before the job, so it was a great day. Here are a couple pics of me and Nitro that my wife took when we got back to my place. That's his Chevy maxed out with green hardwood. Notice that Nitro is a textbook Wisconsin redneck and proud of it. Soon after this we grabbed a couple silo's of beer and walked my woods looking for our next firewood prospects. Springs a commin! Cheers. 




Here we are on top of my "have yet to split" pile. Sold out of firewood right away this fall and have amassed about 70 face cord so far this winter. Cutting again tommorow.


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## masterarbor (Mar 16, 2008)

nice pics. :rockn:


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## RDT (Mar 16, 2008)

Good work.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 16, 2008)

Like the pickem up truck! opcorn:


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 16, 2008)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Like the pickem up truck! opcorn:



Nitro is a mechanic. The truck has a 454 with over 450 hp and 4:11 gears, she is a towin machine.


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## reachtreeservi (Mar 16, 2008)

Nails, What do you think about your new equipment, now that you've had a chance to climb with it ?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 16, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Nails, What do you think about your new equipment, now that you've had a chance to climb with it ?



I love it. It has made me a safer, more productive climber. I feel confident now that I have the right gear for all situations. I don't have to "make do" anymore causing early fatigue and high stress situations in the name of getting any and all jobs done. 

To me the biggest differences are the new saddle, new tophandle saws, and the wire core flipline. The saddle has eliminated most preasure points that were the major fatigue factors. The saws have led to me doing more work on the way up, lessening the time spent in the top and allowing me to take on any branch at any time. The wire core flips really well and helps in ascending the bigger trees. 

It is all thanks to the members of this site. Pooling their experiences with mine has made it possible for me to buy gear that isn't going to get thrown into the bottom of my climbing bag. Sure I am spending money, but I am getting the results I want without wasting it.


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## reachtreeservi (Mar 16, 2008)

You're looking good out there, keep a cuttin....


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## oldirty (Mar 16, 2008)

good pics nails. you really have the "saw pose" down. lol

i couldnt help but notice that your boy nitro looks like a couple buzzard's i know. lol


nice wood you got out there in your parts. straight up and down hardwood. 



how do you like your steelcore flip? you like letting it hang? i dont. swivel dog snap and key chain carabiner the end of it to your belt. it'll hang out just fine and wont be in the way because it'll be looped back to your belt. the swivel snap allows it to rotate around without getting all bound up.

try it mang. i wouldnt lie to ya.

is your 2hunge eating it up or what?


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## clearance (Mar 16, 2008)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Like the pickem up truck! opcorn:



Me too. Good job, Husky saws on the ground, Stihl in the air, killer straight axle Chevy, all the right stuff, way to go.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 16, 2008)

oldirty said:


> good pics nails. you really have the "saw pose" down. lol
> 
> i couldnt help but notice that your boy nitro looks like a couple buzzard's i know. lol
> 
> ...




Hey Oldirty, I figured you would nail me for not carrying the 2hunge in the pic. Believe it or not, my dad was in another tree using it at the time, he grabbed this huge caribeaner we had hooked to our gear trailer and strapps it to his saddle. He loved it. My brother has tried it too and was impressed. It's only a matter of time now. Oh I almost forgot, I did the muffler thing on the 192, but not on the 200 yet, I am trying to let the anticipation build, I can't take all that power at once.

I am still trying different saw poses for my portfolio. lol

Steelcore. It is doing exactly what I bought it to do, flipping and flipping well.
I will gladly steal your swivel snap idea. I clipped it back to my saw biner when I was in some smaller trees, but like you said she got all twisted up. Good call. 

Hey, I got one question that I know you have the answer to, what is the correct way to take up slack on the wire core with the petzle macrograb when ascending?

Nitro is my oldest and bestest friend, he's a buzzard and he knows it. lolol 

Shoot me back when you can, later.


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## gremlin (Mar 16, 2008)

Great pics dude.


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## Ole Farmerbuck (Mar 16, 2008)

Nice job and equipment!


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## oldirty (Mar 16, 2008)

if its what i think it is nails just grab the flipline behind the hardware and pull away from your hip at an angle so you can pull it through the "grab" of the ascender. 


was it put together on order or did you have to put it together onto the flipline? 
if you had to wrench it did you tighten it too much so that its squeezed and cant release? i mean you dont want any play in there but also not torqued down.

is this ascender anything like my gibbs ascender? i only have experience on that and a prussic for the flip lines.


and about your boy nitro and him being a buzzard.....it takes one to know one. lol



oh, and dont hold me to the knowledge part of our game bud. i'm just a grunt. no degree's or certs like alot of these other guys. just on the job smarts. lol

CA is my on my radar though. just the next logical step for me in this game we play.

stay safe


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 16, 2008)

Nice Pics Nails! Havin Fun Yet? Stay Safe. Nothing is more rewarding than a good friendship with someone who can help you to achieve your goals.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 17, 2008)

I hope that was a removal.

Couldn't help myself

I love those jobs, spend the day doing 10 trees with only one climb.

Bring me up on some of thsoe jobs and we will have some fun.


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## newb (Mar 17, 2008)

Wow, and nobody caught the spikes on a trim, shame! Pete


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## masiman (Mar 17, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> I love it. It has made me a safer, more productive climber. I feel confident now that I have the right gear for all situations. I don't have to "make do" anymore causing early fatigue and high stress situations in the name of getting any and all jobs done.
> 
> To me the biggest differences are the new saddle, new tophandle saws, and the wire core flipline. The saddle has eliminated most preasure points that were the major fatigue factors. The saws have led to me doing more work on the way up, lessening the time spent in the top and allowing me to take on any branch at any time. The wire core flips really well and helps in ascending the bigger trees.
> 
> It is all thanks to the members of this site. Pooling their experiences with mine has made it possible for me to buy gear that isn't going to get thrown into the bottom of my climbing bag. Sure I am spending money, but I am getting the results I want without wasting it.



Nice pics.

I agree with oldirty regarding not letting the tail of your flip hang like that. It can get tangled, plus its banging into your saw and chain. For that reason I put my tail on my left hip. I figure my right is getting enough workout with the chain and pruning saw that my left can handle adjusting the flipline.

To adjust my gibbs, I lean in a bit to ease the strain and pull or pay out the flipline as needed. I think the hardest part of flipline adjustment for me was training myself to let go of the gibbs if I was paying out too much (getting over the instinct to grab).

What saddle did you end up with? I think that is a Yale flipline? I was thinking of retiring my first one and getting a new one. Did you get an 8' or 10'? If I get another I will get at least 10' maybe 12'. The 8' works the majority of what I do, but I have been at the max on some of the larger red oaks.


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## capetrees (Mar 17, 2008)

What about newbs question?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 17, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I hope that was a removal.
> 
> Couldn't help myself
> 
> ...



Oh yeah John, you know thats the only way I roll. It's really the tree's fault though, if them red oaks weren't so tough I wouldn't have to spike them so hard. lol


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 17, 2008)

masiman said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> I agree with oldirty regarding not letting the tail of your flip hang like that. It can get tangled, plus its banging into your saw and chain. For that reason I put my tail on my left hip. I figure my right is getting enough workout with the chain and pruning saw that my left can handle adjusting the flipline.
> 
> ...



I have the Komet Butterfly saddle. No regrets.

The flipline is a Yale Maxi-flip in 10'x5/8". Looping it back to my saddle keeps it quite manageable even in smaller stuff. I keep a prussic adjustable buckstrap that is shorter on my left side for most small stuff and positioning once I am tied into the top with my climbing line.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 17, 2008)

oldirty said:


> if its what i think it is nails just grab the flipline behind the hardware and pull away from your hip at an angle so you can pull it through the "grab" of the ascender.
> 
> 
> was it put together on order or did you have to put it together onto the flipline?
> ...



The flipline was preassembled. I will give your technique a try. Thanks.
I believe it to be the same as a Gibbs, but don't know for sure.

I only ask you because I don't have to have my hip waders on to get through all the bullsh1t, and get a straight answer. If you know you tell me and if you don't, you don't claim to know. 

I am going to check out the CA thing myself when the time comes. Out.


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## oldirty (Mar 23, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Oh yeah John, you know thats the only way I roll. It's really the tree's fault though, if them red oaks weren't so tough I wouldn't have to spike them so hard. lol





how about this red oak nails? you like the firewood from this one?


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## oldirty (Mar 23, 2008)

and of course the obligatory shot.


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## ckliff (Mar 23, 2008)

*Spikes???*

Was that a removal? JPS tried in a lighthearted way to point it out, but while you are learning new things on this site, please be aware spiking trims ordinarily is not good practice.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 23, 2008)

oldirty said:


> how about this red oak nails? you like the firewood from this one?



I love it. Nice, very nice. I like the pic with the new 660 beached up in the log. I've found some stuff in trees in my day, but a new chainsaw, now that's a find.:greenchainsaw:


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 23, 2008)

ckliff said:


> Was that a removal? JPS tried in a lighthearted way to point it out, but while you are learning new things on this site, please be aware spiking trims ordinarily is not good practice.



I am aware, just making do with what I have for now. Not a removal, we just deadwooded that one.


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## ckliff (Mar 23, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> I am aware, just making do with what I have for now. Not a removal, we just deadwooded that one.



Look, you are talking about doing split tails in another thread & still spiking trims? :crazy1: TRY THIS! - Set a line high, throw lanyard around trunk, lean back & walk up. Advance lanyard & repeat. Somebody posted a vid once doing this. Its easy & saves the tree from spike holes.


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## ckliff (Mar 23, 2008)

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=33449

trunk walking fyi


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 23, 2008)

ckliff said:


> Look, you are talking about doing split tails in another thread & still spiking trims? :crazy1: TRY THIS! - Set a line high, throw lanyard around trunk, lean back & walk up. Advance lanyard & repeat. Somebody posted a vid once doing this. Its easy & saves the tree from spike holes.



Yeah, I am talking about split tail climbing, not rope climbing. I don't rope climb at the moment and have never set a line without climbing up and setting it. 

I will be ordering a bigshot, throw bags, line, friction saver, ascenders, all the shizzle needed to climb rope probably this week. Have to figure out my list yet. After that I will set a line from the ground and climb the rope up.

I have seen the technique you are talking about in another thread.

I don't think that climbing on spikes only, removal or not, is all that rare. I am sure there are many in line clearance and such that do it and trim their neighbors trees.


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## GlennG (Mar 24, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> I took Nitro, a good friend of mine, to a tree job today. He took a few pics of me in a red oak so I thought I would throw them up. The job consisted of deadwooding, removals and trims. It was a classic "go through every tree on the property" kind of deal. The job was for a professional photographer who was snapping shots left and right, seriously outgunning Nitro. Nitro did make a good skidder though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice Pics and thanks for posting.....but.....It looks like all shiny new equipment on the maiden voyage up a tree LOL. Your equipment looks so good it must be a catologue shoot. Just messin with you, very nice, keep posting pics


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## tree MDS (Mar 24, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Yeah, I am talking about split tail climbing, not rope climbing. I don't rope climb at the moment and have never set a line without climbing up and setting it.
> 
> I will be ordering a bigshot, throw bags, line, friction saver, ascenders, all the shizzle needed to climb rope probably this week. Have to figure out my list yet. After that I will set a line from the ground and climb the rope up.
> 
> ...


I thing that big shot thing is a waste of money there Nails, just not nessisary/just another way for them to bilk us out of would be profits. All I've ever done for trims was rope climb and we allways just tied a slip knot in the throw line at desired legnth and toss away, its not like we got redwoods or anything. JMHO. Have you tried footlocking yet? Its a PITA at first but an invaluable skill for big prunes on a production orientated crew, and all you need is a prussik cord and a carabiner.


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 24, 2008)

Nice pics Nails  But your still missing the keg stand shot


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 24, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> I thing that big shot thing is a waste of money there Nails, just not nessisary/just another way for them to bilk us out of would be profits.



You must not have given it a chance. I use bigshot, or just a throwbag on a daily basis. Being able to get up 50-75 ft on a consistent basis makes it worth the price. Then I use my MarBars to footlock up, working my way through if possible.


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## tree MDS (Mar 24, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> You must not have given it a chance. I use bigshot, or just a throwbag on a daily basis. Being able to get up 50-75 ft on a consistent basis makes it worth the price. Then I use my MarBars to footlock up, working my way through if possible.



Interesting, I have to be honest, I never tried one-got a friend with one but I never saw the necessity sinse I'm pretty good with just the bag, to at least 60'. What I really meant is that to get started climbing without spikes you don't need a bigshot, thats all.


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## masiman (Mar 24, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Interesting, I have to be honest, I never tried one-got a friend with one but I never saw the necessity sinse I'm pretty good with just the bag, to at least 60'. What I really meant is that to get started climbing without spikes you don't need a bigshot, thats all.



I am no where near the experience of you or JPS but I fall on the side of the big-shot. I can get a throw line where I need it far more consistently than I can by throwing. I figure I am ok at about 40'-50' throwing. After that, it had better be a pretty unobstructed shot. It can be annoying carrying BS along with everything else but it does save me a ton of time getting that TIP in.

Alot of times I could just flipline up and then set the TIP by hand but I really like that secure feeling of flipping up with a TIP in case I get into trouble. Even if I have to take extra time to take up the TIP slack.

The customers like seeing it and think what a cool gadget. And then you hike up their tree and make them nervous about how high you've climbed . But if you don't need it, yeah, save yourself $120 plus maintenance costs (I have not needed new bands or a head yet).


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 24, 2008)

Glenn almost everything I have on in that picture is brand new. The only things not new are the spikes(new straps though!) and the buckstrap on my left side. Even that isn't that old. The old gear is hanging in the shed waiting for my kids to get old enough to use it.

Tree MDS, I was going to just buy the sling for 25 odd dollars and build the rest out of aluminum at my shop. Costs will be low enough to make it a no brainer. 

Lumberjack, I know I can never compete with your avatar, so I will stick to the pretty boy pics. lol


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## reachtreeservi (Mar 24, 2008)

Hey Nails, I'd just buy the bigshot for 120. Consider the time and trouble it'll take to fabricate it and the fact it'll pay for it's self the 1st job you set a line 70 feet from the ground and pull the tree over without climbing it.

You can make shots thru cover that you would never be able to hand throw.
Best money you'll ever spend and you write it off on your taxes.

Originally Posted by tree MDS 
"I thing that big shot thing is a waste of money there Nails, just not nessisary/just another way for them to bilk us out of would be profits."

MDS doesn't know what he's talking about.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 24, 2008)

reach, I run a fab shop, it'll be no trouble at all. Yeah, I am looking forward to firing that bag up in some trees and pulling them over, should be slick.


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## hornett224 (Mar 25, 2008)

*i use the big shot and i wouldn't go without it.*

not to mention the joy i get from nailing the condos next door with black walnuts when they piss me off.


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## tree MDS (Mar 25, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Hey Nails, I'd just buy the bigshot for 120. Consider the time and trouble it'll take to fabricate it and the fact it'll pay for it's self the 1st job you set a line 70 feet from the ground and pull the tree over without climbing it.
> 
> You can make shots thru cover that you would never be able to hand throw.
> Best money you'll ever spend and you write it off on your taxes.
> ...


Nice to see you back reach, I thought I scared you away.  
MDS


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## reachtreeservi (Mar 25, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Nice to see you back reach, I thought I scared you away.
> MDS


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 25, 2008)

hornett224 said:


> not to mention the joy i get from nailing the condos next door with black walnuts when they piss me off.



Launching tennis balls for the dog to fetch


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## HolmenTree (Mar 25, 2008)

Everyone needs a bigshot. In my business I'd be lost without it. Get the newer improved one. Their really accurate once you get used to it . For setting a pull line, climbing line , static removable false crotch, etc. you can't be without the big shot.

If I'm spurring up hardwood I'm always tied into a dynamic climbing line system with a friction saver and a blakes hitch advanced by a micro pulley. I got that extra security with 2 systems. You can always change your friction saver false crotch position when you get to the top. Tie into a neighboring tree if the tree your climbing is an iffy one for safety, you can release yor lanyard and swing away in a time of trouble.

Learn how footlock your climbing rope with the blakes or ditsel hitch. I wasted alot of $ buying all different kinds of ascenders. Stuff which was always in the way or just 1 extra thing to worry about. I'm 50 years old an I can footlock up 50 ft. nonstop with ms200 and all. Arbormaster taught me how to climb when I was 42 years. So your never too old to learn.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 25, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> Everyone needs a bigshot. In my business I'd be lost without it. Get the newer improved one. Their really accurate once you get used to it . For setting a pull line, climbing line , static removable false crotch, etc. you can't be without the big shot.
> 
> If I'm spurring up hardwood I'm always tied into a dynamic climbing line system with a friction saver and a blakes hitch advanced by a micro pulley. I got that extra security with 2 systems. You can always change your friction saver false crotch position when you get to the top. Tie into a neighboring tree if the tree your climbing is an iffy one for safety, you can release yor lanyard and swing away in a time of trouble.
> 
> Learn how footlock your climbing rope with the blakes or ditsel hitch. I wasted alot of $ buying all different kinds of ascenders. Stuff which was always in the way or just 1 extra thing to worry about. I'm 50 years old an I can footlock up 50 ft. nonstop with ms200 and all. Arbormaster taught me how to climb when I was 42 years. So your never too old to learn.




Holmen, thanks for the input. I figured I would learn to footlock because I am not a fan of extra gear or wasting money. I am sure I will learn it in a minute or two. What do you use on your hands when you footlock?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 25, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> What do you use on your hands when you footlock?



I use Mar-Bars, if you have a good strong grip, then an 8mm cord and a Klemhiest/Krutzklem hitch works well. Grab a lock, jump up, hold the rop, grab...jump..hold...

It takes a while to get the muscle memory and coordination down, logger heels makes it harder too.


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## HolmenTree (Mar 25, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Holmen, thanks for the input. I figured I would learn to footlock because I am not a fan of extra gear or wasting money. I am sure I will learn it in a minute or two. What do you use on your hands when you footlock?



I use Bailey's rubber coated cor grip gloves item #13065. Their nice snug fitting for average sized hands and can last a couple of hard climbing days. I bought 10 doz. last year for $15 doz. when they were on sale.Reg. price is $18.95 doz. if you buy 10 doz. still plenty cheap for a good climbing glove.

If you learn to footlock don't start with the static version [ friction hitch around both lines ] .you can't descend on this system or if you get too close to your false crotch the 2 ropes will widen apart and your hitch will let go. This is a fast ascending system for the experienced climber. To descend you'll have to use a figure 8 descender.

Learn the split- tail with the micro pulley advancing technique. Its 1/2 the speed of the static but much more efficent.I still use the same 4 ft x 1/2" Safety Blue split tail with braided eye since I first climbed 8 yr. ago.[Sherrill #31346 $24].I still use the Blakes hitch nothing fancy but always reliable. You can limb walk all over the tree with this system, but always have a figure 8 knot on the running end of your climbing rope [inside the rope bag] and on the end of your split tail.Many experienced climbers have fallen to their deaths from forgetting to use the fig.8 . My best advice is take an Arbor Master climbing skills course. I'm going to take mine over again too just to refresh myself. It will be the best money you can spend.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 25, 2008)

how far is Wisconsin Rapids? Midstate has a very good climbing course there.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 25, 2008)

Great information guys, it will definitely be helpful. Without looking I would say that Wisconsin Rapids is at least 60 miles probably 10 or 20 more. What about those D-handle like hand ascenders, worth it or not?


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## oldirty (Mar 25, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> What do you use on your hands when you footlock?



hopefully you got them on the rope homey. lol


i bought a rock (rox maybe?) dual ascender. 110$. worth it? maybe. probably just end up using a prussic cord though in the long run. but at least i'll have it. oh well. i've spent a hunge on worse. lol.

footlocking will get easier thats for sure. so dont get pissed at it. 


for starting off though definitely just go with your normal set up. (splittail with the blakes right?) that way you can get a handle on it without worry too much about running out of gas or descent or too close to you TIP.

good luck on it.


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## HolmenTree (Mar 25, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Holmen, thanks for the input. I figured I would learn to footlock because I am not a fan of extra gear or wasting money. I am sure I will learn it in a minute or two. What do you use on your hands when you footlock?



HA ha in my earlier post I said I use cor grip gloves on my hands, now I get what you were saying. Yes when I started climbing the split tail the 1st 6 mths I had a grip problem so I bought a pair of Petzl handled ascenders .They helped me get used to all the body mechanics of footlocking. What I realized was the lack of skill and lack of pressure my feet were putting on the rope was making myself compensate the movement by putting more emphasis on my upper body strength and hand grip. With the Petzls I was able to concentrate better on my lower body and feet. When it all became fluid with a balance of upper & lower body the Petzls have been in my gear bag ever since. They were always in the road or getting caught on things while working in the tree. Footlocking is like riding a bike ,get used to it the first time and you never forget. It becomes natural in no time.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 25, 2008)

No sweat Holmen, I am getting the gloves anyway. lol


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 26, 2008)

oldirty said:


> hopefully you got them on the rope homey. lol
> 
> 
> i bought a rock (rox maybe?) dual ascender. 110$. worth it? maybe. probably just end up using a prussic cord though in the long run. but at least i'll have it. oh well. i've spent a hunge on worse. lol.
> ...




Splittail with the blakes will be my original setup. If I can't learn to footlock in 10 minutes or less I am going to throw myself out my basement window.


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## oldirty (Mar 26, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Splittail with the blakes will be my original setup. If I can't learn to footlock in 10 minutes or less I am going to throw myself out my basement window.




make sure you open the window first.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 26, 2008)

good thinking, or it might hurt a little.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 26, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> good thinking, or it might hurt a little.



Have your buddy tape it so we can have a laugh.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 26, 2008)

No luck fellas, on the window stunt that is. Why? Cause I learned to footlock tonight in 5 minutes!

It took me about 5 sets of my feet until I found the position I wanted, so I would get a solid non-slip lock and up I went. 

I don't have my friction saver and all that stuff yet so I used my homemade splittail, and a natural crotch. 

I think it is cool passing by all these "technical" spike climb areas on a rope. Makes it pretty easy to get to the top without fighting limbs, knots, and other stuff. 

My new problem: what do I do when I get to the top? 

I also tried walking up the tree with my flipline, also a neat technique. Love these new options.


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## Thillmaine (Mar 26, 2008)

*Tie in*

Buckstrap in on a branch somewhere in the vicinity of yout TIP or below it. Take off the prussic and throw it to the ground (or keep in on your saddle, just more stuff to have DONT throw the biner) Pull one end of your rope up (spliced end if you h ave it.) Tie your fixed end onto your saddle then tie your split tail and friction hitch. Or get to the limb closest to your future TIP and throw your rope up there, then repeat steps above..


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks, I get the tie in part. 

What I mean is how do I move around? Am I supposed to get some good shoes on and run around like a squirell with just my climbing line and a buckstrap? 

With spikes I could obviously get anywhere, just not sure what it will take without them. I will say this though, footlocking kicks ass.


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## Mark Currie (Mar 27, 2008)

If you ever get a chance, you should check out some of the ISA climbing competitions. The work climb and masters' challenge give a pretty good indication of how to move around in the tree. Good TIP and good boots go a long way to being able to move around the tree with ease.

http://www.asolo.com/content.asp?L=3&idMen=429
http://www.asolo.com/photo/OM3400_508_07.jpg

Those are what I'm currently using for boots. I like them alot. Good stiff/semi-flat sole, good grip and very comfortable. Good for footlocking and limb walking.

I've found that using straps or prussik loops as footholds (girth hitch around a limb and insert foot) help on more vertical limbs, where proper positioning to make a cut is a little harder to achieve. Experiment, trust your ropes/gear and yeah, take some cues from the squirrels/monkeys and you'll be running around the tree in no time. 

Man, I can't wait for the temps to warm up and this snow to clear up. It looks to be a productive spring, providing spring actually arrives.

Mark Currie


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 27, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Am I supposed to get some good shoes on and run around like a squirell with just my climbing line and a buckstrap?
> 
> .



I'm more like a 3 toed sloth, but spikes get in my way more often then not.

What do you think we have meant when we talk about limb walking?


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## HolmenTree (Mar 27, 2008)

Get your self a ditty bag for the back of your saddle [Sherrill 30763 $27] & carry 3 or 4 24" loop runners[$4ea.] & some extra biners. Now you can redirect your climbing line all over the tree by girth hitching the loops around a stem or limb as you go.Biner on the end of the girthed loop & around both ropes. But don't forget that fig. 8 knot on the end of your rope, you can use up 200ft. of rope limbwalking around a tree in no time.You definately don't want to see the end of your rope sliding thru your friction hitch. 
If your pruning you won't be using spikes anyway so get used to footlocking.Carry an extra micro pulley in your ditty bag too.Comes in handy when your rigging down limbs.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

I see, so that's how this spikeless game is played. Sounds like fun. I wondered about the more vertical stuff and the redirects, but you guys cleared that up. Well I guess I have to buy a bunch more stuff now, oh well.

Limbwalking? I have limbwalked all over with spikes on, figured it was the same deal but spikeless. It all makes sense to me now, why most of the guys around here need their carribeaners, nylon loops, pulleys and all that gear. Seems more like mountain climbing than tree work. 

I can see this will take more gear, a mental shift, some practice and more gear. Thank you for the gracious help.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

Mark Currie said:


> If you ever get a chance, you should check out some of the ISA climbing competitions. The work climb and masters' challenge give a pretty good indication of how to move around in the tree. Good TIP and good boots go a long way to being able to move around the tree with ease.
> 
> http://www.asolo.com/content.asp?L=3&idMen=429
> http://www.asolo.com/photo/OM3400_508_07.jpg
> ...




Hey Mark what do those boots cost roughly?


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## 2FatGuys (Mar 27, 2008)

Nails - 

There are a fair number of us that migrated to tree work from the "mountaineering" or rock climbing community. It is very similar. The guy that originally taught me to "climb trees" was an old school spike and buckstrap guy. With my experience on rock, I couldn't understand why tree work wasn't more "high tech". I talked to some other climbers over a few years and realized that, at the time, most of the older guys were "spike and buckstrap" and the younger pros were moving more to what we know today. It was a welcome change for me. That was 20+ years ago. Thank God the industry is using these MUCH safer and more efficient methods now!


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## Mark Currie (Mar 27, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Hey Mark what do those boots cost roughly?



At REI, they're $180. I got them through my clothing allowance where I worked, so they were free to me.

http://www.rei.com/product/706762

The main thing is to find something comfortable, that'll stand up to abrasions and scuffs and a fairly flat sole. If you look at most of the pics from the competitions and stuff, most of them are wearing very similar boots. I like those ones because of the cap thing on the heel and toe. They've held up nicely. I had a pair of Vasque hiking boots (can't remember the style) at first, but the sole started separating and the heel split, probably within 3 months of me buying them.

Mark Currie


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## 2FatGuys (Mar 27, 2008)

It's amazing how quality has changed over the years.

I have a pair of Vasque Hiker II boots that are almost 31 years old. I paid $119 for them when I bought them new. They are the most comfortable heavy hikers you'll ever find. They have been resoled twice due to having a little over 7,000 miles of hiking and backpacking on them. But the boots are still in GREAT shape.

I also have a pair of Vasque light weight hikers, similar to the Asolo boots shown. They are only 3 years old and are already coming apart. They have less than 300 miles on them.


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## Mark Currie (Mar 27, 2008)

haha.. I almost called you Ron. A guy I worked with had an ancient Vasque that he climbed on.. that was the reason I bought mine. He was shocked that they fell apart so quickly.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

Mark Currie said:


> At REI, they're $180. I got them through my clothing allowance where I worked, so they were free to me.
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/706762
> 
> ...



Those baby's aint cheap. I like the Goretex deal for comfort. Do you ever where spikes with those on? I mean if you need them, I wouldn't think you would want to be changing footwear on the job. 
Lot's of removals for me, whole trees and sections of trees, I will still probably spend most of my time in spikes. On a section removal deal, I could see footlocking to the TIP and then sending up the spikes once on the section to be removed. Back to my main question If you are at a job doing prunes and removals and you are climbing both, do you bring 2 sets of footwear?


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## Thillmaine (Mar 27, 2008)

*boots*

I spike in my Asolo's, but due to lack of serious arch suppor tit gets tiring after a while. I got some chippewas that I use if I know I am doing a large removal with alot of time on the spurs. I would say that most guys just use wahtever boots they have unless they know they are taking down abig tree, then bring out hte wesco's, white, chipps whatever with alogger sole.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

2FatGuys said:


> Nails -
> 
> There are a fair number of us that migrated to tree work from the "mountaineering" or rock climbing community. It is very similar. The guy that originally taught me to "climb trees" was an old school spike and buckstrap guy. With my experience on rock, I couldn't understand why tree work wasn't more "high tech". I talked to some other climbers over a few years and realized that, at the time, most of the older guys were "spike and buckstrap" and the younger pros were moving more to what we know today. It was a welcome change for me. That was 20+ years ago. Thank God the industry is using these MUCH safer and more efficient methods now!



I am in the opposite situation. I learned from my dad, an oldschooler who climbed on only a climbing line and spikes. If you want a nasty tree down that nobody will touch he is your man. Thats how we get a lot of our work, but with that comes these rinkydink prune jobs, and spending enough time on here has made me conscious about spiking them. I love the hardcore oldschool removal methods, you need that if you are going to do the big stuff without a crane of course, but I am starting to see that there has been an industry shift, with these mountaineering tactics. 

I can spike up a tree and cut it in half with a 395xp, now lets see if I can put my hiking boots on, grab my handsaw and manicure that puppy.

To run spikeless you need new methods, thats all there is to it.


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## Mark Currie (Mar 27, 2008)

I've worn spikes with them, yeah. Not bad, but I've never spent all day in spikes either. A couple of guys bought some of the higher end hunting boots (flat sole, really high up the leg) from Cabella's. I forget the model though, but they really liked them.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

Mark Currie said:


> I've worn spikes with them, yeah. Not bad, but I've never spent all day in spikes either. A couple of guys bought some of the higher end hunting boots (flat sole, really high up the leg) from Cabella's. I forget the model though, but they really liked them.



My dad climbs in Wolverine Gore Tex hunting boots from Cabella's and he likes them. I use logger/lineman boots.


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## Mark Currie (Mar 27, 2008)

cool.. here, there's laws stating that you have to wear chainsaw boots in the tree, if you're running a chainsaw. So, I mostly wear my cutting boots now.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

I don't know of any law around here like that, law don't go round here nohow. lol


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## Mark Currie (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm in Canada after all.. haha.. I've got a comfortable pair of cutting boots though (leather Royer), so it's not so bad. Chainsaw pants in the tree too, which isn't the best thing, but hey, it's the law.. haha.. At least in this province.

Mark


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

Canada you say, oh it's all clear to me now. I here it's rough up there. Power to the people!


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## oldirty (Mar 27, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> My dad climbs in Wolverine Gore Tex hunting boots from Cabella's and he likes them. I use logger/lineman boots.



no need to get into the tennis shoe mentality when it comes to your prunes. wear your steel toe SAFETY boot. the one you wear day in day out. just tread lightly if you are concerned about tree. imiagine that one day your not wearing your boots in the tree and accidentally lay a running saw across your toe area. no thanks.

rec climbing? sure wear your hikers.



funny you learning all this new sh1t. i see our game as having a few different disciplines to the climbing technique. 

you have on the ground pruning of the ornamental variety. to me this type of work drives me crazy. others find comfort in it. i see it everyday where i currently work. they love making those little trees look good. not enough action for me, and i dislike hand snips. lol

then you have the pruning attitude. get up into that tree from the tip to toe and walk all the branches making cuts. anything rubbing, competing for space, growing back to the inside, growing vertically of the main branch. there's more. but i am not all that good at it, so i will not try to tell you how to do it. this type of climbing definitely takes athleticism. tree forced yoga posing to make a few cuts in precarious places in the tree. for sure your not soft if you a climbing like that.

then you have the takedown climbing. just all out bum rushing of the tree. sometimes you have space, sometimes you dont. maybe you get to spend 6 hours in a tree rign the absolute dog snot out of it but you gotta do what you gotta do to get the tree down. this takes a certain effort. especially day in day out. a mind set that makes it tough to accept a new way to do things because the way they have been done works.

then you have crane work. a different animal in its own right. yah it takes less "work" when its around but if you dont know your cuts or you have no idea where to set the chokers to compensate for weighted sides then you are in for a long day too.

so in closing i guess its not that everyone does things different, its just that with so many disciplines to our game there are a million ways to do it.

to truely be a stud climber you have to have some time in all phases.


oh yeah, chances are good that if you can do all this well, than you should be able to run a bucket too.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

I have that prunning eye, where my brother doesn't. I get to do those fancy apple trees with the pruner pole and stuff. Even trim hedges. Dad gives them to me cause he says I will make them look nice. A little art involved there. 

I have the takedown mentality, whats the word? kill....... let's here it again. KILL. Now go for it! 

I would like to rig for a crane, since my dad has been a crane operator and operating engineer for 20 years. We just never have found we needed one.

I used to run buckets as a lineman, they were gravy for sure, but I prefer climbing. Keeps the operation costs down.


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## masterarbor (Mar 27, 2008)

this post has legs!


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## HolmenTree (Mar 27, 2008)

Like olddirty says, wear your steel toes [not plastic or carbon either]. If you're running saws, the 1st thing you'll cut is your left knee or your left foot. Husqvarna once sold an arborist boot thru Sherrills about 7yrs ago. Arbor Master Training is sponsored by Husqvarna and all their instructors wore these fancy boots. Only trouble was these boots had plastic toe protection not steel. In 2001 I took a chainsaw course through Arbor Master and both instructors had the plastic toe boots .Here they were running saws without the proper footwear. I brought it up to them in front of the class.You could hear a pin drop, pretty embarrasing for them. The next year Sherrill no longer sold the boots.

I wear iron worker boots. 8" tops for good support, soft white flat soles with good traction ,great for rope footlocking and a steel toe and [ steel arch great for spikes.]These boots are very light and the soft gummy sole designed for walking on narrow steel girders is equally as good walking on round limbs. Lacing goes down to the toe for extra foot support and extra traction for the rope in footlocking. I can't think of a more skilled dangerous job then a ironworker walking on a 6 inch wide steel beam 400 feet off the ground day in, day out. I feel comfortable in their boots. Trust me they are the only boots to wear.


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## oldirty (Mar 27, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> We just never have found we needed one.




can you go a little deeper into this one for me?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 27, 2008)

oldirty said:


> can you go a little deeper into this one for me?



Yeah, we have never done a removal with a crane, and have never walked away from a job or chance to bid a sketchy job. We have had jobs no one else around here would do, a crane would have been nice, but we did it anyway. Big stuff leaning over houses and such. I didn't even know trees were done with cranes until I saw it on the internet, but I always thought it was a logical choice in some circumstances. Lots of time in the tree and lots of big rigging, sometimes two climbers.


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## oldirty (Mar 27, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Lots of time in the tree and lots of big rigging, sometimes two climbers.



sure man. twp and i were rockn in a norway in the backyard wednesday. no equipment access at all. i was in that prick for almost 6 hours total. (had to go back this afternoon to put the log on the ground) we rigged the tits out of that thing. lol

imagine that same tree over the house but with crane access. everything goes fine maybe 2 hours in the tree, there was a lot of brush.

cranes make the tough ones easy. all day.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 28, 2008)

oldirty said:


> cranes make the tough ones easy. all day.



When they work, they really work. Sometimes they can turn into a cocked up mess


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## oldirty (Mar 28, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> When they work, they really work. Sometimes they can turn into a cocked up mess



much like everything in my life sir. lol

but when you got the room..........


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