# is an extra 5cc's worth paying $250 more?



## treeminator (Mar 24, 2006)

the STIHL 200T is like 35cc and priced over $500.
the ECHO (climber) and STIHL 192(?) are like 30cc to 32cc's, but less than $250.
why are people still paying for the 200T's when they can get the others for half price?


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## Lawn Masters (Mar 24, 2006)

People are buying the MS200T because its got a reputation as the best climbing saw EVER made. I dont understand it either. my belief is use what you feel comfortable with.


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## treeminator (Mar 24, 2006)

i'm under the impression they are buying the 200T because it's popular. kind of like a brand name saw...ie. GUCCI or CHANEL or whatever.

but my thinking is that it's still the same power. except, you can buy 2 saws for the price of one if you want to chose something other than the 200T. there's even a STIHL saw that is 2 lbs lighter than the 200T and almost half the price. i don't get it.


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## tophopper (Mar 24, 2006)

Its not the same power!!

Go buy the echo or the 192, use it for a few months, then run an 200.
There is a huge difference in power.

Personally, for climbing I wouldnt consider anything less, the extra money it costs is well worth it, but you'll never know....

....it seems your sold on a cheaper/ weaker saw


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 24, 2006)

The ms200t is about twice as fast as the Echo 340. It'll also outlast it 2 to 1.


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## tophopper (Mar 24, 2006)

the 192's DO make good wheel chocks


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## tophopper (Mar 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I like my 200t but I've never use the husky top handle climbing saws.
> 
> Mike did you ever get a rear handle ms200?





I dont wanna start a ford / chevy war, but,


Ive had 3 husky top handles 2 335's and 1 338, they were (are) all pieces of chit. And because they are made of such brittle plastic, they dont even work well for wheel chocks. 

Actually I think the husky top handles have the best ergonomics and are the sleekest looking, too bad they arent better built.


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## treeman82 (Mar 24, 2006)

The 192's are alright if you are just starting out and don't have the money to drop on a 200T. However if you run the 192 for a few days and then get to run a 200T it's like night and day. The speed, the design, the tanks, the durability, the power, etc. etc. it's just a far superior saw.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I like my 200t but I've never use the husky top handle climbing saws.
> 
> Mike did you ever get a rear handle ms200?


I did play with one, but we've been running the Husky 336. There have been real nice tools. They will soon be selling the 339 here and I'll definitely be getting one.
The plastic is brittle, so don't drive over them with your truck like tophopper does.


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## dakota (Mar 24, 2006)

treeman82 said:


> The 192's are alright if you are just starting out and don't have the money to drop on a 200T. However if you run the 192 for a few days and then get to run a 200T it's like night and day. The speed, the design, the tanks, the durability, the power, etc. etc. it's just a far superior saw.




I've had to use a 192 for the past couple of days and even worse than slower speed, etc than the 200 is the difference between the OFF buttons. I'm so used to turning my 200 OFF quickly and swiftly, yet that 192 requires a bit more effort just to turn the stupid thing off. Button is shaped different, smaller and maybe a slightly different angle. Obviously designed by someone who never had to do did tip-ties.


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## geofore (Mar 25, 2006)

*saw$*



treeminator said:


> the STIHL 200T is like 35cc and priced over $500.
> the ECHO (climber) and STIHL 192(?) are like 30cc to 32cc's, but less than $250.
> why are people still paying for the 200T's when they can get the others for half price?



It's not hard to understand if you use saws/tools every day. A craftsman/pro wants good tools. A homeowner is happy with a tool that works for this one job then he's done with it till next time, a week/month/year later. It's not even about a couple of cc's difference. It's about reliable preformance. What do you use your saw for and how often do you use it?


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## jmack (Mar 25, 2006)

treeminator said:


> the STIHL 200T is like 35cc and priced over $500.
> the ECHO (climber) and STIHL 192(?) are like 30cc to 32cc's, but less than $250.
> why are people still paying for the 200T's when they can get the others for half price?


 i guess the easy way to explain it is well if i have to explain it you wouldnt undrestand it anyway


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## jmack (Mar 25, 2006)

Lawn Masters said:


> People are buying the MS200T because its got a reputation as the best climbing saw EVER made. I dont understand it either. my belief is use what you feel comfortable with.


 yes it is


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## jmack (Mar 25, 2006)

treeminator said:


> i'm under the impression they are buying the 200T because it's popular. kind of like a brand name saw...ie. GUCCI or CHANEL or whatever.
> 
> but my thinking is that it's still the same power. except, you can buy 2 saws for the price of one if you want to chose something other than the 200T. there's even a STIHL saw that is 2 lbs lighter than the 200T and almost half the price. i don't get it.


 oh yea its a a fashionably thing, sister go file your nails we'll be right here filing the rakers down c-ya


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## TimberMcPherson (Mar 25, 2006)

If you dont know the difference now, get the echo and use it for a year, then go for an ms200. You'll really know then


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## treeminator (Mar 25, 2006)

jmack said:


> oh yea its a a fashionably thing, sister go file your nails we'll be right here filing the rakers down c-ya



it sounds like it is a fashionable "fad" thing. let's face it guys, horsepower is horsepower and cc's are cc's. the only difference is maybe the plastic housing. otherwise, it's still the same power (mathematically and mechanically). it's not as complex as a 4 cyl. car vs. 4 cyl. truck where the gearing ratios are different when connected through the transmission and all. 

today i used a Craftsman 18" 40cc gas chainsaw for $150. that's 5cc's MORE than the $500+ STIHL. it's all brand naming and clever marketing on STIHL's part. the executives at STIHL are laughing at everyone. who do you think pays for all their sawing competitions, sponsorships, big trade show booths, and dealerships? it's all added to the saws cost.

the craftsman cut through a log like butter. i took me the same amount of time as when i use my STIHL ms440. go figure. i feel like i spent $750 on the 440 and all i really did was help pay for STIHL's next ad campaign or NASCAR sponsorship.


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## treeminator (Mar 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> That Craftsman has your name on it!
> 
> Good decision.
> 
> Does Craftsman make climbing ropes?



laugh it up, but it's a mechanical FACT...it has more power at 1/4 the price. i can have a whole crew using brand new chainsaws with more power than one 200T.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 25, 2006)

tophopper said:


> the 192's DO make good wheel chocks



Dang, i always said they didn't even make good wheel chox or boat anchors; i guess i stand corrected!

Depends on what ya need; how light, well balanced, feel, vibration, repairable in modules, parts, repair men etc. If you work it right the speed of seperation with 200 can give more powerful throw force; to give more useable and sometimes safer strategies of control.

i like 200/020; know what i can werk on and have several for parts; switching would be giving up a lot even in this departmeant.


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## dakota (Mar 25, 2006)

treeminator said:


> it sounds like it is a fashionable "fad" thing. let's face it guys, horsepower is horsepower and cc's are cc's. the only difference is maybe the plastic housing. otherwise, it's still the same power (mathematically and mechanically). it's not as complex as a 4 cyl. car vs. 4 cyl. truck where the gearing ratios are different when connected through the transmission and all.
> 
> today i used a Craftsman 18" 40cc gas chainsaw for $150. that's 5cc's MORE than the $500+ STIHL. it's all brand naming and clever marketing on STIHL's part. the executives at STIHL are laughing at everyone. who do you think pays for all their sawing competitions, sponsorships, big trade show booths, and dealerships? it's all added to the saws cost.
> 
> the craftsman cut through a log like butter. i took me the same amount of time as when i use my STIHL ms440. go figure. i feel like i spent $750 on the 440 and all i really did was help pay for STIHL's next ad campaign or NASCAR sponsorship.





Of all the arguments around here, never thought there'd be an extended pissing match regarding Stihl versus Craftsman saws. Maybe if you kept your 44 out of the dirt, you could make better comparisons. 

If we're all just suckered by Stihl's marketing dept then we're all in trouble because there must all sorts of other things we're wrong about.


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## leafman (Mar 25, 2006)

the craftsman cut through a log like butter. i took me the same amount of time as when i use my STIHL ms440. go figure. i feel like i spent $750 on the 440 and all i really did was help pay for STIHL's next ad campaign or NASCAR sponsorship.[/QUOTE]


yeah but the big difference will be after five years you will probably have bought four or five cratsmans and the 440 will still be going strong


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## leafman (Mar 25, 2006)

i have to agree with all the guys that prefer the 200T over the 192 and echos. we have used all these saws and everyone on our crew prefers the 200 hands down. the controls, such as the off switch, are better placed, the saw doesnt bog down as much as the 192 or echos, and it seems to be much more durable. you get what you pay for. if you have the money go for the best saw which is the 200T


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## rbtree (Mar 25, 2006)

I scored a 192T almost new for $230 on ebay, and had ehp mod it. He didn't charge me much as, like the 335/338's, it's design doesn't allow full mods to be made. But I really like the saw, though it is kinda flimsy. It now cuts about as fast as a bone stock 200T in small wood. The missing 19 ounces is really noticable.

The new Echos have motors about the same size as a 200T, and the saws look bulky, plus they are now heavier. The few user reports I've heard say the larger echo has good power. Likely still behind the 200 and 335 by quite a bit. My old 3400 Echo, now stolen, cut well with its muffler modded. Echos have traditionaly lasted a long time. 

I still prefer the Huskys over the 200T. Most of mine now run well, and cut on a par or better than the 200 (stock but muffler screen removed), but only if the muffler has been modded. Spark plug cover is the only aggravation, but some tape fixes that, and I recall someone saying a cover off a weed whacker Husky could be made to fit--and stay on...


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## rbtree (Mar 25, 2006)

Treeminator, you make foolish comparisons. One, that Crapsman is not even in the same class as the 200T. It is not a specialized climb saw, is heavier, and will not last. And, no way would it even come close to a properly maintained and tuned 440. The one has 5.4 hp, the other about 2.4......

Also, just because cc's are about the same, doesn't mean two different saws will cut the same...or last the same time. Most small climb saws utilize reed valves, and are gutless compared to the Husky 33x series and 200T...


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## xtremetrees (Mar 25, 2006)

How about the new red max ive been seeing on the market. Any reports on them are they better than echos?


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## treeminator (Mar 25, 2006)

many of you stated the STIHL's will last far longer than a Craftsman. how long are you talking. i use saws 3 days a week in my biz. 

i still think it's better to buy 4 Craftsman saws instead of 1 STIHL. this way they can get stolen, broken, or repaired and you will always have back ups.

my 440 cuts the same as my Craftsman.


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## Freakingstang (Mar 25, 2006)

treeminator said:


> many of you stated the STIHL's will last far longer than a Craftsman. how long are you talking. i use saws 3 days a week in my biz.
> 
> i still think it's better to buy 4 Craftsman saws instead of 1 STIHL. this way they can get stolen, broken, or repaired and you will always have back ups.
> 
> my 440 cuts the same as my Craftsman.




Good mentality. I wish I had a chance to work for your hack of an operation. The fact that you need 4 craftsmans to equal one Stihl says alot.

440 is about the same thing as a husky 372. Unless you have some rebadged stihl or huskie pro saw, you don't have a clue. Drop that craftsman out of a truck bed. (about 4-5 foot off the ground) and see what happens. Nice antivibe they have to. I'm sure you run low kickback chain also? Like Dan said, how much you want for that 044/MS440? Could you buy an 066/MS660 to try against you crapshoot saw and then sell it to me? I might even trade you 2 or 3 of them if I can find that many that run.


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## treeminator (Mar 25, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> Good mentality. I wish I had a chance to work for your hack of an operation. The fact that you need 4 craftsmans to equal one Stihl says alot.
> 
> 440 is about the same thing as a husky 372. Unless you have some rebadged stihl or huskie pro saw, you don't have a clue. Drop that craftsman out of a truck bed. (about 4-5 foot off the ground) and see what happens. Nice antivibe they have to. I'm sure you run low kickback chain also? Like Dan said, how much you want for that 044/MS440? Could you buy an 066/MS660 to try against you crapshoot saw and then sell it to me? I might even trade you 2 or 3 of them if I can find that many that run.



wow, there's some serious brainwashing going on. STIHL's marketing team really did a good job over the past few years. seriously guys.


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## treeminator (Mar 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> What will you take for your 440?



i'd take what i paid...$750. then i'd gas up the Craftsman, max the bar length, and go knock down a few 100ft Australian Pines.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 25, 2006)

i've tried several cheaper routes; and have gotten more pro-level satisfaction from S****.


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## rbtree (Mar 25, 2006)

I smell a troll....

or an idjyat...


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 25, 2006)

rbtree said:


> I smell a troll....
> 
> or an idjyat...



Dang, more short jokes!

i guess luckily those rumors of your demise where somewhat premature!


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## grnlfclimber (Mar 25, 2006)

i don't know about the 200T but i can say that i have been very lucky that I bought one of the indestructable models of the338xpt 



GAS AND OIL let her Ripp.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 25, 2006)

Let me be honest; i do use C.Man wenches and other hand tools; but my mechanic is real stupid; he demands SnapOn; so i guess i shouldn't trust him. He even prefers the latters calenders; hard to figure; all calenders have the dates on them!


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## clearance (Mar 25, 2006)

treeminator said:


> the STIHL 200T is like 35cc and priced over $500.
> the ECHO (climber) and STIHL 192(?) are like 30cc to 32cc's, but less than $250.
> why are people still paying for the 200T's when they can get the others for half price?


You have had your question answered for you but you persist in idiocy. Put down the glass pipe.


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## shalx (Mar 25, 2006)

treeminator said:
 

> many of you stated the STIHL's will last far longer than a Craftsman. how long are you talking. i use saws 3 days a week in my biz.
> 
> i still think it's better to buy 4 Craftsman saws instead of 1 STIHL. this way they can get stolen, broken, or repaired and you will always have back ups.
> 
> my 440 cuts the same as my Craftsman.


 Nobody is going to steal the craftsman( thieces are smarter than THAT) Broken will happen and four broke saws cut NO wood. Repaired now you really have youself BSed you can't repair those diposible dung heaps. Money does not buy skill, tools do not equal skill but skilled hands with quality tools and professional etiquette do make for quality work. When your skill advances you may appeciate this. May I sugggest you find your 440 manual, page 26 and 27 deal with mounting your bar and chain, page 32 describes releasing the chain brake, pages50-53 describe chain sharpening. Start there and open your mind and let your skills grow. I will asume you know how to start the 440.


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## nitwit dolt (Mar 25, 2006)

No one has mentioned this yet, so I thought I'd bring it up. The price difference in the Stihl is because it is still made in Germany. It's called an import tax. That being said, it is what I fly with.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 25, 2006)

Yep, lucky Husky is built locally. Right in...uh...Europe.


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## 16gauge (Mar 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> The ms200t is about twice as fast as the Echo 340. It'll also outlast it 2 to 1.


What is your basis for this statement? Have you run a stilh ms200t for a hundred hours and an echo 340 for 200 hours. Oopps. Your post must be based on conjecture. I'll be waiting many months for the experience to temper the conjecture about these climbing saws. In the mean time, tell me what other echos are really bad saws. Thanks for your responses...ahead of time.


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## spacemule (Mar 25, 2006)

Is it troll season lately? They've really been coming out of the woodwork.


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

16gauge,
your list of saws suggests you have tried alot of different brands. can you do a quick run down and price/quality/practicality comparison review for all the folks here. thanks.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 26, 2006)

16gauge said:


> What is your basis for this statement? Have you run a stilh ms200t for a hundred hours and an echo 340 for 200 hours. Oopps. Your post must be based on conjecture. I'll be waiting many months for the experience to temper the conjecture about these climbing saws. In the mean time, tell me what other echos are really bad saws. Thanks for your responses...ahead of time.


I have run about 5 of the little Echos into the ground, took about two years. I still have all my Stihls and Huskys. I have an 020 with more hours on it than all 5 of my Echos put together.
The big difference is the Echos are "throw away" saws. If an $80 part fails you throw it away. With a pro tool, you fix it.
Don't get me wrong about the Echos, they are good saws. I rate them as kind of in between a pro saw and a homeowner saw. The Stihl and Husky saw models mentioned are pro saws (both Stihl and Husky make homeowner saws).
If you use your saws every day, you'll be disappointed in the Echo. The biggest thing is the power. If you are a weekend warrior, it would probably be a great fit. If you go out to cut for 1/2 hour, once a month, look at the poulans or some other $100-$200 saw.
You can't rate a saw by looking at a spec chart. You need to run them for a while. 
I personally like the Huskys because of the power band and the anti-vibration. The throttle response is right on and the saw is so smooth to operate. It's really a pleasure. The newer models are improved, so if you haven't tried on in a while, you might be surprised.


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## Newfie (Mar 26, 2006)

I guess I better run down to my Husky dealer tomorrow and take back the new 372. I hope he will let me exchange it for a fistful of Wild Thangs. It will probably make me a lot more efficient. I won't have to worry about trenching in the dirt with the chain. If I do that I can just throw it in the pile and grab another saw and keep cutting. No costly downtime spent swapping a chain or hand filing. 6 or 7 wildthings should keep me cutting all day without stopping to sharpen or refuel. I can see the big bucks rolling in now. I can't believe I've been duped into buying expensive, reliable saws all this time. :greenchainsaw: 


Can we get a Poulan smilie?


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## xtremetrees (Mar 26, 2006)

I agree with mike maas. Aye Them echo's are throwaway and non repairable.
again,
How about the redmax saw. Entry level its only 200 bucks. Thats not so bad if they are repairable.

I got a husky 141 that vibrates like a poluland its so old.About 4 years working aloft.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 26, 2006)

The Redmax is compareable to the Echo.


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## darkstar (Mar 26, 2006)

*200 tttttttttttt*

We used the 338 and 335 xpts they got about 10 hours on them befor they both broke . I fixed them and they broke again this happened for about 10 weeks till i threw one out of the tree .
I finally listened up to a chit tone of climbers and bought a 200t. Its awesome and will really take a beating . :spam:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 26, 2006)

What broke?


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## rbtree (Mar 26, 2006)

Darkstar, I'll take those Huskys you hate so much off yer hands.....


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 26, 2006)

xtremetrees said:


> I agree with mike maas.



i don't think that is allowed(i fergit the rule #); and have tried to avoid it at all costs myself over the last decade. i believe he in fact honorably returns same consideration himself. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

Newfie said:


> I guess I better run down to my Husky dealer tomorrow and take back the new 372. I hope he will let me exchange it for a fistful of Wild Thangs. It will probably make me a lot more efficient. I won't have to worry about trenching in the dirt with the chain. If I do that I can just throw it in the pile and grab another saw and keep cutting. No costly downtime spent swapping a chain or hand filing. 6 or 7 wildthings should keep me cutting all day without stopping to sharpen or refuel. I can see the big bucks rolling in now. I can't believe I've been duped into buying expensive, reliable saws all this time. :greenchainsaw:
> Can we get a Poulan smilie?



you say that sarcastically, but that's actually a very efficient and profitable way to run a tree business. i can't tell you how many times my day has been screwed up by a broken saw or having to sit down and file the blades. it would be so time efficient if there were 4 or more saws for the crew to interchange with. multiple guys using multiple saws all at the same cost of one 200T.


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## tophopper (Mar 26, 2006)

Hahaha


Its official..... this dude is only worthy of running a craftsman.


where exactly is the "blade" on a chainsaw?


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## tophopper (Mar 26, 2006)

for laying cable right?


:greenchainsaw:


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

tophopper said:


> Hahaha
> 
> 
> Its official..... this dude is only worthy of running a craftsman.
> ...



hey rookie, you sharpen the blade which is on a chain. please don't tell us you've been filing the chain this whole time


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Not usually. Usually digging for rocks.



laugh it up, but when i go and buy 6 wild things for the same price as a 200T, i will be able to trench AND cut trees because i'll have plenty of back up saws.

at least i'll sleep easy knowing that my hard earned money wasn't spent on STIHL's import taxes, marketing and saw competition sponsorships.


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## woodchux (Mar 26, 2006)

I bought a used 200t and worked it hard every day for a year.

I have felled and bucked 30" oaks with this little jewel !

So don't let the price scare you off .

The 200t is worth much more than the MSRP


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## tophopper (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> laugh it up, but when i go and buy 6 wild things for the same price as a 200T, i will be able to trench AND cut trees because i'll have plenty of back up saws.
> 
> at least i'll sleep easy knowing that my hard earned money wasn't spent on STIHL's import taxes, marketing and saw competition sponsorships.






Dood-

you'd jump over a dollar to pick up a shiny nickel wouldnt ya?





My question is this.....

if you are so hell bent on using craftsman, then why did you even come here asking for opinions? 


So do you use a troy-bilt chipper and chip into a hatch back ford escort?

You do know you could get a dozen troy-bilt- escort combos for less than what a REAL truck and chipper costs.

Plus you'd have lots of back ups



Your ignorance is really showing.....

so what other corner cutting, cost saving business tips can you share with us?


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## tophopper (Mar 26, 2006)

Im all ears


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## tophopper (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> hey rookie, you sharpen the blade which is on a chain. please don't tell us you've been filing the chain this whole time





uh no


you sharpen the cutter on the chain, there is no blade dufus  .


Im honored.... Ive been called a rookie by a lawn jockey.


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## xtremetrees (Mar 26, 2006)

Sure theres a blade.
Ive been called blade many time especially during hurricanes


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## Freakingstang (Mar 26, 2006)

I think craftsman guy gets toolbox of the year award. He is the biggest tool, he must be the whole box......


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## jmack (Mar 26, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> That Craftsman has your name on it!
> 
> Good decision.
> 
> Does Craftsman make climbing ropes?


sweeet!


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## jmack (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> it sounds like it is a fashionable "fad" thing. let's face it guys, horsepower is horsepower and cc's are cc's. the only difference is maybe the plastic housing. otherwise, it's still the same power (mathematically and mechanically). it's not as complex as a 4 cyl. car vs. 4 cyl. truck where the gearing ratios are different when connected through the transmission and all.
> 
> today i used a Craftsman 18" 40cc gas chainsaw for $150. that's 5cc's MORE than the $500+ STIHL. it's all brand naming and clever marketing on STIHL's part. the executives at STIHL are laughing at everyone. who do you think pays for all their sawing competitions, sponsorships, big trade show booths, and dealerships? it's all added to the saws cost.
> 
> the craftsman cut through a log like butter. i took me the same amount of time as when i use my STIHL ms440. go figure. i feel like i spent $750 on the 440 and all i really did was help pay for STIHL's next ad campaign or NASCAR sponsorship.


 sounds like ya got your own fad, sthils been here forever


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## jmack (Mar 26, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I have run about 5 of the little Echos into the ground, took about two years. I still have all my Stihls and Huskys. I have an 020 with more hours on it than all 5 of my Echos put together.
> The big difference is the Echos are "throw away" saws. If an $80 part fails you throw it away. With a pro tool, you fix it.
> Don't get me wrong about the Echos, they are good saws. I rate them as kind of in between a pro saw and a homeowner saw. The Stihl and Husky saw models mentioned are pro saws (both Stihl and Husky make homeowner saws).
> If you use your saws every day, you'll be disappointed in the Echo. The biggest thing is the power. If you are a weekend warrior, it would probably be a great fit. If you go out to cut for 1/2 hour, once a month, look at the poulans or some other $100-$200 saw.
> ...


good tip you talking 338-334?


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## Treeman14 (Mar 26, 2006)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> i don't think that is allowed(i fergit the rule #);QUOTE]
> 
> Now THAT was funny!


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## Treeman14 (Mar 26, 2006)

Can't someone move this thread to the Chainsaw Forum?


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## clearance (Mar 26, 2006)

This is one of the funniest threads for a while, I could just see the guy hiring a decent tree guy. When they get to the job and the saws come out....."what the ---- kind of saw is this?" The new guy would be looking at Treeminator wondering what others tricks the tard had in store for him.


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

tophopper said:


> so what other corner cutting, cost saving business tips can you share with us?




ok, well since you asked... here's one of them.

i recruit all my guys from the local fast food places. these guys are used to making minimum wage (like $6.00/hr or so). i offer them $8.00/hr and the chance to work in the fresh air. their eyes light up.
1st day on the job is climbing and cutting. 2nd is droppin' & choppin'. by the 3rd day, they are ready to take their Craftsman and go on their own.

good part is... they get discounts at the local fast food places they work for me.


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## Freakingstang (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> by the 3rd day, they are ready to take their Craftsman and go on their own.
> 
> good part is... they get discounts at the local fast food places they work for me.




take the craftsman where, to the curbside?  I could think of a few other places to stick them...

wow, free gease burgers....


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## clearance (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> ok, well since you asked... here's one of them.
> 
> i recruit all my guys from the local fast food places. these guys are used to making minimum wage (like $6.00/hr or so). i offer them $8.00/hr and the chance to work in the fresh air. their eyes light up.
> 1st day on the job is climbing and cutting. 2nd is droppin' & choppin'. by the 3rd day, they are ready to take their Craftsman and go on their own.
> ...


Yeah right, flipping burgers to climbing all in a couple of days, what a tool, troll whatever full of BS get lost idiot, everyone quit talking to him


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

clearance said:


> This is one of the funniest threads for a while, I could just see the guy hiring a decent tree guy. When they get to the job and the saws come out....."what the ---- kind of saw is this?" The new guy would be looking at Treeminator wondering what others tricks the tard had in store for him.



no you don't understand. i'm way too cheap to hire experienced climbers. i recruit them from minimum wage jobs and train them myself within a couple of days. 

the funniest part is THEY truly believe Craftsman is the prefered saw by tree companies. i train them that STIHL is good, but overpriced because of marketing and brainwashing. 

i had one guy accidently drop the STIHL 440 and he shrugged it off and said... "it's ok, the craftsman's got it's back covered if it gets damaged".


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## clearance (Mar 26, 2006)

clearance said:


> Yeah right, flipping burgers to climbing all in a couple of days, what a tool, troll whatever full of BS get lost idiot, everyone quit talking to him


Everbody quit talking to the tard, that includes me, doh.


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

clearance said:


> Everbody quit talking to the tard, that includes me, doh.



you're kidding right? this board could learn from me.
seriously, i operate on a 90%+ *NET* profit margin with my system. this includes labor and equipment costs. i have more ways to save money other than just the saws and labor.


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

clearance said:


> Yeah right, flipping burgers to climbing all in a couple of days, what a tool, troll whatever full of BS get lost idiot, everyone quit talking to him



why is this so hard to believe, Clearance??? all climbers started learning from somewhere right? best way for a newbie to learn is throw him up a tree. how else is he expected to learn quickly?


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## woodchux (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> you're kidding right? this board could learn from me.
> seriously, i operate on a 90%+ *NET* profit margin with my system. this includes labor and equipment costs. i have more ways to save money other than just the saws and labor.



Please tell me more
I am curious


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

woodchux said:


> Please tell me more
> I am curious



savings tip #13:
Home Depot sells a dark brown colored rope that can be used for trees at 1/5th the cost.


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## Newfie (Mar 26, 2006)

lets all run and get some "brown" rope. I've never heard a tree guy discuss rope with color being the major distinguishing factor. Bet you don't even know its breaking strength, safe working load or anything of real importance.

90% is really good. The sure sign of a hack and a charletan. I bet you are uninsured,don't pay comp on your employees, don't withhold, and don't declare your income.

I'm sure you get your margins closer to 95 - 96% if you found saws and vehicles that were powered with bullsh!t.


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## Lumberjacked (Mar 26, 2006)

Kinda sounds like my electric chainsaw and 24 foot extension ladders I use for takedowns. 

Oh, and dont laugh about that part about trenching. I know a guy that uses god knows how many chains to cut the roots around the stumps and then pulls out the stump with a winch.


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## treeminator (Mar 26, 2006)

Newfie said:


> lets all run and get some "brown" rope. I've never heard a tree guy discuss rope with color being the major distinguishing factor. Bet you don't even know its breaking strength, safe working load or anything of real importance.
> 
> 90% is really good. The sure sign of a hack and a charletan. I bet you are uninsured,don't pay comp on your employees, don't withhold, and don't declare your income.
> 
> I'm sure you get your margins closer to 95 - 96% if you found saws and vehicles that were powered with bullsh!t.



1) well it's never broken and i use it almost daily.
2) i carry the minimum insurance because i have the customer sign a damage release waiver. (another cost savings idea)
3) i make my climbers pay their own worker's comp.
4) i do declare income.... don't mess with the IRS
5) do i detect a hint of sarcasm with that last comment???


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## Lumberjacked (Mar 26, 2006)

hahaha. not that it matters but, if you F-up and wreck somones property because of your mistakes a signed waver will never hold up in court. Its called negligence and its all on your arse not theirs.


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## Newfie (Mar 26, 2006)

treeminator said:


> 1) well it's never broken and i use it almost daily.
> 2) i carry the minimum insurance because i have the customer sign a damage release waiver. (another cost savings idea)
> 3) i make my climbers pay their own worker's comp.
> 4) i do declare income.... don't mess with the IRS
> 5) do i detect a hint of sarcasm with that last comment???




A hint of sarcasm? You really are thick.


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## Newfie (Mar 26, 2006)

Lumberjacked said:


> Kinda sounds like my electric chainsaw and 24 foot extension ladders I use for takedowns.
> 
> Oh, and dont laugh about that part about trenching. I know a guy that uses god knows how many chains to cut the roots around the stumps and then pulls out the stump with a winch.




I think I'm gonna incorporate an idea into my business plan, although I should run it by:greenchainsaw: treeminaturd first.

How about I sell all of my gas saws and just buy a couple cheap electric ones. I'll probably need a couple thousand feet of extension cords to do lot clearing but I'll have lots of cake after selling my overpriced Huskies (I'm sure glad I didn't buy Stihls and get screwed even more). I could plug into a neighbors without them knowing and really start improving my bottom line.


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## Pilsnaman (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't understand why this guy even asked the question. He knows what he really wants, a crapsman, and just wanted to start something. I have used every saw in question here, even the Wild Thing, and here is my take on saws. The Craftsman and Poulan are homeowner saws period, they are not meant to be run every day and will not last as long. Added to this is there lack of power from cheaper metals, carbs (yes the carb on a 2 cycle can make a big difference), and overall engine design. Next, the Echo's are a good middle of the road saw but really don't have the power of a good pro-saw. Bury the tip into oak with an Echo and you have to be really soft handed but a 200T is more forgiving. The Husky's and Stihls are pro-saws (not talking about homeowner line which is more like Echo) and you can feel it both in power and ergonomics. I prefer the Stihl climbing saws, feel there is more power to play with, and Husky ground saws, feel there is more power band and grunt. I say get the best you can afford so it will last and if you get good chain it will take a lot for a skilled operator to dull it. Just MHO, as wrong as it may be.
P.S. Husky vs. Stihl is like Chevy vs Ford, it all depends on what you like.


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## treeminator (Mar 27, 2006)

Newfie said:


> I think I'm gonna incorporate an idea into my business plan, although I should run it by:greenchainsaw: treeminaturd first.
> 
> How about I sell all of my gas saws and just buy a couple cheap electric ones. I'll probably need a couple thousand feet of extension cords to do lot clearing but I'll have lots of cake after selling my overpriced Huskies (I'm sure glad I didn't buy Stihls and get screwed even more). I could plug into a neighbors without them knowing and really start improving my bottom line.



that's a great idea, but i found out it's not practical. i've already tried it. although it's much more affordable, you tend to get the cords wrapped up when the branches fall to the ground. most of the time they get pinned under a log. 

we had 3 climbers with electric saws working on take downs and one groundsmen "untangling" the cords the whole time. saved a bunch of money, but the hassles made us switch to gas powered.


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## treeminator (Mar 27, 2006)

Pilsnaman said:


> I don't understand why this guy even asked the question. He knows what he really wants, a crapsman, and just wanted to start something. I have used every saw in question here, even the Wild Thing, and here is my take on saws. The Craftsman and Poulan are homeowner saws period, they are not meant to be run every day and will not last as long. Added to this is there lack of power from cheaper metals, carbs (yes the carb on a 2 cycle can make a big difference), and overall engine design. Next, the Echo's are a good middle of the road saw but really don't have the power of a good pro-saw. Bury the tip into oak with an Echo and you have to be really soft handed but a 200T is more forgiving. The Husky's and Stihls are pro-saws (not talking about homeowner line which is more like Echo) and you can feel it both in power and ergonomics. I prefer the Stihl climbing saws, feel there is more power to play with, and Husky ground saws, feel there is more power band and grunt. I say get the best you can afford so it will last and if you get good chain it will take a lot for a skilled operator to dull it. Just MHO, as wrong as it may be.
> P.S. Husky vs. Stihl is like Chevy vs Ford, it all depends on what you like.



did they actually stop working on you? i mean did you actually use them and run them into the ground?

i'm finding that most people have a herd mentality and are simply saying they last longer and all. how do they really know this unless ran both saws for the same amount of hours. usually this isn't the case because most of us don't buy several types of the same saw.


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## Newfie (Mar 27, 2006)

Pilsnaman said:


> I don't understand why this guy even asked the question.



Because he is a troll or a moron. I suspect a troll because we know most saw doofuses don't refer to cc's when buying a saw but "blade" length.

Or maybe he just wants us to know what a business genius he is.


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## Newfie (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey treeminaturd, I hear extension cords make great climbing ropes. Another cost saving tip maybe?


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## woodchux (Mar 27, 2006)

Don't forget to dump the waste just around the corner ...
to save gas and tipping fees


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## murphy4trees (Mar 27, 2006)

You know this guy sounds like Forrest with his "business plan" and profit margins... how the "$10 palms" treatin' you forrest??? 

I bought a 200T and the 191 or 192??? on the same day last year... I was happy with the performance of both saws for the monney... I haven't even thought of starting an old echo since then. And will never buy another...

Big removals... that 200 pays for it\\self over and over with all the time and energy saved making big cuts.... I put a black strap on the 200 and a pink strap on the 192.... The pink strap stays on the truck most days...


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## Pilsnaman (Mar 27, 2006)

My wife ran an echo for a year and we spent a lot of time keeping it in tune. I could also look at the pallet of non-working saws we had in the work bay...80% of the saws were echo's. It was very uncommon for a stihl or husky to require more then a new spark plug or pull cord. Fact is, you get what you pay for in life and if it seems too good to be true, like a $150 chain saw that is high in quality, then it probably is. Oh, and I have seen a Stihl get dropped from 20 ft and start right up...can't say that would happen with an all plastic saw. Now I say all this owning an Echo but that is my personal saw that I don't use for business every day, just to do work for friends and family. For that it is a great saw.


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## Newfie (Mar 27, 2006)

murphy4trees said:


> You know this guy sounds like Forrest with his "business plan" and profit margins... how the "$10 palms" treatin' you forrest???



Good 'ole Gump.He's probably a sleeze bag attorney by now.Just like his daddy.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 27, 2006)

C'mon men... this guy IS forrest... look at the subject matter and writing style, (that's how they found the unibomber) and threads he started, and the location, South Fla., and the way he tells us how much we can learn from him... It is all there... This guy is definitely forrest....

C'mon forrest... cop to it.... some of us have really missed you... We'd all like to hear it's you, and how you've been doing... some of us do care.... and we'd get a good laugh from the flamers... so c'mon.... just do it... you can always start a new handle again later...

ps... is rocky still around much these days?


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## rebelman (Mar 27, 2006)

I like my echo! I've literally beat the hell out of it for almost five years and thousands of trees. Pruning, removals, I can't tear it up. Occasionally I wish I had just a little more power, and I'm sure when I try the Stihl I'll like it. I hated Husky, cold blooded ?????. My larger saws are Husky, but I'll never climb with one again(except for larger cuts). I thought I was getting carpal tunnel or something a few years ago, so I switched from echo to Husky for a different starting pull. It did help.


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## TreeLady (Mar 31, 2006)

It's gonna be sad reading about Treeminator on the Accident/Injury board. Maybe not for a while 'cause that brown rope hasn't broken yet. If it's one of his crew he can just pick up another at McDs at lunch, less downtime, save money $$.


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## gitrdun_climbr (Apr 14, 2006)

RPMs of that 200T are what sold me, right away. I didn't need to watch any Stihl ads, try any other saws, I couldn't ask for anything else in a climbing saw...except those janky tooless caps and I do wonder how long that flimsy looking lanyard clip on the back is going to last. Who cares...groundies where your hardhats...on a daily basis that saw is ultra reliable and just ripsarse!

Treeminiature, have you heard of the old trick of recycling all your trucks motor oil through your chainsaw bar? The savings are even greater if used as your 2-cycle as well but she'll smoke a little.


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## Newfie (Apr 14, 2006)

TreeLady said:


> It's gonna be sad reading about Treeminator on the Accident/Injury board. Maybe not for a while 'cause that brown rope hasn't broken yet. If it's one of his crew he can just pick up another at McDs at lunch, less downtime, save money $$.




From the sounds, one of the crew could pick up a replacement for treeturd at Mcd's and it would be business as usual.


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## BIG JAKE (Apr 14, 2006)

*Kill a kid*



treeminator said:


> you're kidding right? this board could learn from me.
> seriously, i operate on a 90%+ *NET* profit margin with my system. this includes labor and equipment costs. i have more ways to save money other than just the saws and labor.



We'll see how long that profit lasts after a kid dies due to your greed or ends up in a wheelchair and you get sued by their parents-just a matter of time. :deadhorse:


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## belgian (Apr 14, 2006)

Story of the day :

_So it has come to pass that Stihl and E'lux shares have dropped dramatically lately. Reportedly, one smart arborist fella in the US called treeminator has discovered that using pro tools is no longer profitable for a business. Since this is the greatest invention and smartest idea of the latest century, all producers of quality equipment will be facing harsh times, and eventually are bound to disappear. _
It seems that AS is under attack by the trolls lately :notrolls2: 
What the heck is going on??:help:


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