# climbing dead trees



## wildernesstree service (Jan 23, 2002)

recently I had a client hire us to remove a dead top from a ponderosa that was about 130ft andleaning against the house. Thetree had atop that was about 25ftlong and stone dead. we had adjacent trees to settup a speedline but the force of the impacting load on theline would have been about 700lbs comming over about 25ft and down about 30ft until it hit the line .Before I cut the top I told the customer that the line probably would not hold because the force was too large. They opted for me to cut the top anyway and land it on their chainlink fence assuming the rope and speedline settup wouldnt hold.
Note that the only way to reduce the weight of the load was to climb about 15ft into the deadwood. that was suicide and the result was a broken fence and not the roof or a life.

...............could have used a hilo but no jack available boys .....
.......what would you have done..........
.......................robdog


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## rbtree (Jan 24, 2002)

rob,

A couple questions first:

Were you dead ending the speedline just below your cut and in sound wood? It didn't sound that way as you were referring to a lot of drop, so I figure you had the line in a nearby tree, or way below in the same tree, but into sound wood.

How heavy is dead ponderosa, did it still have considerable sap weight? A 25 foot pine top, such as I'm used to working with, quite dead, would weigh very little. Thus I can see it applying 700 pounds of shock load, but not total weight, to the system, which should be no problem.

Options to limit weight and loading;

Use a pole saw (hand or powered) to lighten the top.

Snub your lifeline around solid wood and climb past it, sliding friction knot up as you go, optimally using true dynamic mt. climbing line. I would have no problem climbing at least 10 feet into dead pine wood, depending on its decay and strength characteristics of course. Then, maybe, you could easily free drop the resulting quite small top.

Recently I climbed 40 feet up a 110 foot very dead(3-5 years) douglas fir, with mushroom growth everywhere. Tossed a pull line 15 feet up, and pulled a 70 foot top. Lucky we had enough room to drop it. Typical dead doug fir, it was punky in about 2-4 inches, but had lots of strength in the core wood, with progressively less decay further down. But I still tied in to a nearby small cedar to be safe. I would not have felt as comfortable doing this with alder, pine or hemlock, however.

One needs to know decay characteristics of all species, as well as knowing how long a tree had been dead, perhaps take some core samples, before risking climbing a dead tree. Above all, little or no lowering off itself. Recently, we removed a 60 foot tall ~3 yr dead madrona. While the wood gets very hard, thus allowing minimal gaff penetration , they are fairly safe to climb into 6 inch 
(or so)wood. Luckily, tho, we had a huge fir overhead for life and lowering lines, which made the job a snap!!

The customer has to understand that protecting his property is less important than your life. After all, he's the one that let the tree develop into a hazardous situation.

A little damage to a chain link fence is pretty minor, I'd say!!


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 24, 2002)

The two things I can add are that if it's just the fence, they do come apart, you could take the fence down.

The other thing you could do is peck away at the top with a pole saw. Dead pine should be brittle enough that you could just break the limbs off.

I don't like 700 pounds falling onto a speedline. That's going to break the top off whatever tree the speedline is tied to, and what's that going to wreck?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 24, 2002)

Wouldn't it be cool to have a power pruner with a head like a right angle drill?


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## rbtree (Jan 24, 2002)

Once, I screwed up trying to pop (and throw) a 5-6"deodar top over a primary. It sat back on my saw toward the other target, the building. After quickly snubbing it off, I had a hand powered pole saw sent up, limbed the top, then, due to the lean,had the angle to cut off the highest 8-10 feet. I don't remember whether I free dropped it, or lowered it. The drop onto the line would have been about 16 feet, enough to clear the pwr line and/or building. In retrospect, I was kinda glad it sat back. Not good to take such risks around a primary!!

Now we have a power pruner, which would have made the job quicker and a bit easier.


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## autumn ash (Jan 30, 2002)

*how dead is too dead to climb, are you safe?*

On October 17, 2001 we were taking down a dead hickory tree. It looked solid at the base, however at the top the limbs were starting to break off. We discussed the tree, as always before, but this one was different and had a awful outcome. When Tom roped the top piece down, it came down and knocked the whole base of the tree over, approximately at waist level. Yes, indeed, hickory is a very hard wood, however, you would have never dreamed that roping such a small branch down would be enough force to knock an entire tree down, but this proved to us that anything is possible with a dead tree. He had all of his safety gear on. When the tree went down, he rode it down like a totem pole. His chin hit the gutter and then he, still strapped to the tree, landed on their concrete patio. I remember the limb being topped out and then the tremendous jolt , then the silent fall. It seemed to all be in slow motion. I was amazingly in awe as he fell, but then I knew when he hit and landed that he probably would not live. He looked as if he were taking his last few breaths. Lying strapped to the tree, he seemed lifeless, but about 30 seconds later he looked up at me and spoke with his eyes. I knew that he must be in shock, he could not speak but only with those dismal eyes. He only wanted me to get him off of that tree, and kept groaning. Finally, the ambulance arrived and we went to Grant Emergency Center in Columbus, Ohio where the next stage began. He suffered internal injuries -lost half of his pancreas, lacerated liver, and removal of his spleen, much internal bleeding. In addition, he suffered from numerous facial breaks, lost all of his teeth, and both arms were severely broken. He was given a 50-60% chance to live. He remained a level 1 trauma patient on life support and I was wrapped up with visiting and maintaining our small business. It was a horrific experience. The good news is the dear lord chose to save him and he is at home now dealing with physical therapy of both arms. Pretty intense. So, this is my first time on here and I have read a few messages out there. I hope that my story really makes those of you think about how important your life really is compared to that of taking down a tree that looks ok at the base, and looks dead at the top. Would love to hear your comments, Jacqueline


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 30, 2002)

Tim Walsh of the NAA would be interested in speaking with you about the accident.


Any tree needs more inspection then most of us give. I'd been owrking for many years before learning to even do a visual inspection of the butt. I now do thumpings of but and stem of all trees as SOP. Even if there is no visual indicator of decay.


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## Toddppm (Jan 30, 2002)

I'm very sorry to hear about your husband but glad he is going to be OK.

Today we had to remove an oak that was probably dead for a few years and had galls all around the base that looked like a ball about 1' diameter bigger than the rest of the tree. There was a nice larger live oak 15 ft. away that made it perfect to rope down the top and tie in. My guy went up and used the throwball to set the lowering line and proceeded to rig up the top to remove but not his climbing line, I told to go ahead and set his line up too, but he didn't want to, he just wrapped around the trunk . He roped out the top and a couple side branches then came down to block a few ft. and noticed it was hollow 10 ft. below where he was, he got nervous after that. I have told this guy several times how to rig when we get to the job but he keeps doing it different ways, he's kinda hot headed. I don't know, he's a good guy and the best climber but still learning. I might have to let him go if doesn't straighten up , maybe I just don't know how to talk to him, maybe he thinks I'm acting like a know it all?


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## rbtree (Jan 30, 2002)

Jacqueline,

Welcome to the forum.

What a sobering story. It is relieving to hear that Tom is recovering.

There are so may unknowns working with a dead or hazard tree, or, as John says, potentially any tree. 

I know of several accidents, just in the Pacific North West, over the last 20 years, involving hazard trees. Thankfully I have no direct experience. Perhaps that is luck to some degree. I (we) have certainly not taken every possible precaution.

One basic thing to keep in mind, is to tread very gently. Only do any lowering if there is NO alternative.(besides walking away) And make sure the piece runs smoothly to the ground with no sudden stops. 

In the aftermath of Peter Donzelli's tragic accident, more thought, discussion, and even research has been happening. "Arborist News" ran some helpful stories. TCI also, perhaps.

Many alternative techniques could and should be discussed. This thread is a good place. 

************ 


We are waiting out the melting of up to 12" of rare (for Seattle)snowfall. We craned 4 of 13 large fir logs in between storms. Crane still on site waiting. Plus the brushing out was interrupted by windstorms. We probably have 7000 board feet, worth some $3800. Four years ago, we'd have expected close to $7000.

Roger

.......into preservation over killing trees, darn it.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 31, 2002)

i echo and second the thanks for sobering post!, very dearly! Condolensess and well wishes as they are due.

This goes back to bracing a questionable tree,and minimizing rigging forces, as they pull on the tree; or are shared amongst anchors throughout. perhaps isolating lifeline and/or rigging on independant anchors from said tree. One time for me, i rigged off a 2' diameter new billboard pipe for my lifeline.

Let, all stories like this be shared; yet their be less of them!

Amen!


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