# First Time Clearing - Could use Some Advice / Direction



## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I have been working on the same lot (first time doing something like this) for just over 5 months now… It’s taking way too long. I only have about a month or so before the homeowner is going to want the job completed. I was paying a few guys to help me for the first couple months, but I don’t think the $7/hr they were getting paid was enough to keep them coming back – although that’s better than the $3/hr or so that I’m making. I’m not getting paid to remove these trees… I just get to keep the wood in return for taking them down. I sell most of the wood at $50 a 1/3rd cord – mostly because its fresh cut / split. That way I can at least pay for the gas to keep working the lot.

Here is an aerial shot (green is area being cleared and red line is path out):







When I started I was able to drive my Dakota and 6.33’ x 12’ trailer (2000 lb payload) to the tree line. I used my X534 to help keep the area clear and to pull the smaller logs into the clearing:










Things were starting to get a bit muddy / loose at times, so I picked up some Terra Grip Traction Belts. They worked extremely well to navigate and pull 8’-16’ (depending on diameter) out of the woods to the open area for loading. I would pull or push / roll with the blade.





The lot is 40 minutes away from my house and I only have a few hours on Saturday mornings to get work done. Occasionally I can go there after work and get an hour or so in. Figure 6 hours max / week at the lot.
So I had the thought to load just the logs and cut and split at home during the week. First I used my engine hoist to load the trailer.










That was a bit cumbersome… So I mounted a HF pickup truck crane to the side of my trailer. This worked much better (the winch wore out and I replaced it with a higher rated boat winch that I had).





[video=youtube;LNxxQHY7QdU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNxxQHY7QdU[/video]


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

My splitting area (modified Deere Model 52 splitter).






Then the snow fence was put up around the property (mostly for people on snowmobiles) and I couldn’t drive into the property anymore. So I had to switch to using a sled to move equipment / wood in and out.






In January I went crazy and took out at loan to buy a 1950 8N with back blade and PHD for $2,200.


















I brought the X534 back home for snow plowing duty and took the 8N over to the lot. I used the Back blade to clean up the area and to carry the wood back to the truck.






Meanwhile back home… I purchased a Speeco slip on 4 way wedge from TSC for ~$65 to speed up the splitting (much improved!).


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

The 8N / BB combo was doing the job, but it was taking me about 45 minutes to load up the back of the truck with about 1/3 cord.






I purchased a County Line 500 lb capacity Boom Pole from TSC to try and load logs onto the trailer… but without a ground guy it was just too time consuming.
So I went behind my wife’s back :msp_scared: and bought a County Line Carry All from the local TSC - Much better way of getting the wood to the trailer.










Then I got an email from the homeowners son… he was concerned about the ruts that I was leaving in the yard from the tractor (March weather for ya) and asked me to stop running the tractor until it either froze or dried out – bummer. It was getting a bit soggy in the woods as well – almost got stuck a few times.






So for right now I’m dropping trees and limbing / bucking to firewood length where they fall (some are currently in 6”-8” of water and will stay there until it dries up a little.
Side note… I also have to burn everything that I don’t take from what I cut down. That just adds to the time it takes to get the job done.






So far I have taken ~13 cords off the lot… with maybe 2-3 cords worth currently on the ground.
I have 232 man hours (325 if you want to include drive time) invested… and counting. So about 1/17th of a cord per hour to get to a stacked pile at home??? A bit depressing isn’t it?

Here is my current list of tools to get the job done:
-	1950 8N (Back Blade, Carry All, & Boom Pole)
-	Poulan 2055 with 20” B&C (from my toasted PP4620AVL – Brother in law barrowed and used straight gas. One month old)
-	12” Husqvarna Timber Tong
-	Deere Model 52 Splitter with Speeco 4 way slip on wedge
-	2008 Dodge Dakota QC
-	6.33’ x 12’ trailer (2000 lb payload capacity)
-	STIHL 018C (14” B&C)
-	Plastic utility sled
-	Assorted chains / straps 

I realize that has become an upside down job, but what tools / upgrades do I need (on a reasonable budget) to up my production / be more efficient? Or is it just the method of how I’m doing the job - Not using my current tools to their full potential??? Might help the next time I do something like this…
Thanks everyone…. I’m sure plenty of you will help straighten me out.


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## greenskeeper (Mar 12, 2013)

everybody has deadlines, but getting a lot cleared for free I don't see how they can get upset, especially if no specific finish date was agreed upon. 

Looks like you really need a backhoe, I do want to see a video of the JD tractor skidding tree trunks around :msp_biggrin:


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## jrider (Mar 12, 2013)

While I admire your willingness to work hard, 6 hours a week and virtually no equipment for doing a job this size isn't going to cut it. And paying people $7 to do wood work and expect them to show up time after time and work hard is not realistic around here. Hell, I pay highschool kids $10 an hour to help me when I need it. If you are looking to get it done, you need to spend some serious time there and get your hands on some equipment that's capable of moving logs on a much larger scale than what you are doing.


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## Jredsjeep (Mar 12, 2013)

sounds like you are working for tools at this point. i am not a pro but it is usually far faster to drag out logs to cut up later on my property than buck them up and load them on site. handling many small pieces vs a few big ones. 

if the owner is asking you to back off when you can get the wood (sounds like for good reason) i would let him know that this is negativly going to affect his timeline. you can work with that but that it WILL push things out. 

can you use the tractor to haul the trailer in to load logs directly on. the closer you can get to the wood the easier it is.


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## farmer steve (Mar 12, 2013)

Jredsjeep said:


> can you use the tractor to haul the trailer in to load logs directly on. the closer you can get to the wood the easier it is.



thats what i do, then pull the trailer out to the truck.that old 8n is a good ole tractor.i like your optimism,you already trying to figure how to do it easier the "next time" FS.


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## cmsmoke (Mar 12, 2013)

Being a one man operation is going to take time. Load the logs on froze/dry days (I wouldn't want the ruts either) and it's not productive to work in those conditions. When it's wet cut and split or go to the site and drop, burn brush and clean up.


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## nathon918 (Mar 12, 2013)

well first off you have plenty of tools to do this, but you need to go about it totally different.

i grew up logging, we first started pulling wood with a 53 Ford NNA, believe me your 8N will pull some wood. 
you really need to focus on one thing at a time, you waste too much time cutting to trailer/truck length, then hauling that little bit of wood out.

if i were you i would go in cut it all down! start in the back and drop them the oppsite of the direction they will be pulled, from your pics i would say drop them toward the train tracks. 
then after its all dropped go in and clear out an area(landing) atleast 2 tree lengths long. then start pulling logs to that landing (start closest to the landing and work your way back) then limb the logs on the landing then pull them ahead out of the brush and pile them up. this accomplishes 2 things, 1 it gets all of the brush in 1 location so when your done the job just chip it or in your case light it up. and 2 all of your logs are accesible to buck and load into the truck/trailer.

as for the ruts from the tractor, you should only need to in the yard to get the tractor to the lot, and maybe just to pull the trees that are on the edge of the yard. 90% of your work should be in the woods.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

greenskeeper said:


> everybody has deadlines, but getting a lot cleared for free I don't see how they can get upset, especially if no specific finish date was agreed upon.
> 
> Looks like you really need a backhoe, I do want to see a video of the JD tractor skidding tree trunks around :msp_biggrin:



Yeah... That X534 won't pull any large logs out, but it holds its own. Locking the differential really helps. It isn't on the lot right now... otherwise I'd take a video.



jrider said:


> While I admire your willingness to work hard, 6 hours a week and virtually no equipment for doing a job this size isn't going to cut it. And paying people $7 to do wood work and expect them to show up time after time and work hard is not realistic around here. Hell, I pay highschool kids $10 an hour to help me when I need it. If you are looking to get it done, you need to spend some serious time there and get your hands on some equipment that's capable of moving logs on a much larger scale than what you are doing.



Well... the $7hr is just what it came out to be. Had we been more efficient it would have yielded better pay rates... but I know what you're saying. I wish I could spend more time there, but I work 7am - 5pm M-F and my wife works 12 hr shifts overnights on the weekends so I got the 3 kids (7, 3, and 1) so she can sleep.



Jredsjeep said:


> sounds like you are working for tools at this point. i am not a pro but it is usually far faster to drag out logs to cut up later on my property than buck them up and load them on site. handling many small pieces vs a few big ones.
> 
> if the owner is asking you to back off when you can get the wood (sounds like for good reason) i would let him know that this is negativly going to affect his timeline. you can work with that but that it WILL push things out.
> 
> can you use the tractor to haul the trailer in to load logs directly on. the closer you can get to the wood the easier it is.



I can take the trailer in once the weather is more favorable... and that's what I would normally do. The guy just doesn't seem to like the bar treads in his yard. I might have to get my brother (would cost me $300) to bring a skid steer with a rock hound to smooth everything out when I'm done.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

farmer steve said:


> thats what i do, then pull the trailer out to the truck.that old 8n is a good ole tractor.i like your optimism,you already trying to figure how to do it easier the "next time" FS.



The truck actually does a better job at keeping the impact to the yard to a minimum - No lugs digging into the ground. That... And I really don't like hooking up to my trailer when it's loaded. I have to get out of my truck a half dozen times to make sure I can drop it on the ball without missing / smacking anything. I could just be bad and lining up though....


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

cmsmoke said:


> Being a one man operation is going to take time. Load the logs on froze/dry days (I wouldn't want the ruts either) and it's not productive to work in those conditions. When it's wet cut and split or go to the site and drop, burn brush and clean up.



That's what I was leaning towards. Stage the wood for a few days of removal when conditions are right. Might be able to get a 14 wheel dump to help with transport (30 miles away) - would just cost me fuel. Loading the dump would be the tricky part though...


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## Whitespider (Mar 12, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> *...but you need to go about it totally different...
> ...you waste too much time cutting to trailer/truck length, then hauling that little bit of wood out.*



That's what I was thinking. I'm no logger, but I agree 100% with nathon918... and I'd go at this just like he said.
When I tackle a job I like to do one thing at a time so you're not constantly switching tasks, tools and equipment (and hauling all of them back and forth)... as well, I always think about a way to "work smarter, not harder"... in this case, like nathon918 said, keep all the limbing and brush in one single area so you can just keep pushing it up into one pile. The time for help would be after all the cutting was done... two vehicles, your pickup and something else pulling the trailer, so you could be loading one with logs while the help hauled the other home (you'd need to figure some way for them to unload, which is usually easier and faster than loading). Maybe even three vehicles if ya' got a buddy willing to help (several of mine work for beer).


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> well first off you have plenty of tools to do this, but you need to go about it totally different.
> 
> i grew up logging, we first started pulling wood with a 53 Ford NNA, believe me your 8N will pull some wood.
> you really need to focus on one thing at a time, you waste too much time cutting to trailer/truck length, then hauling that little bit of wood out.
> ...



I like what your saying. Unfortunately the guy was marking trees for me to take down… then wait for me to clear it out. Then mark more trees. The guy lives about 15 miles away and usually can’t be there when I am.


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## farmer steve (Mar 12, 2013)

another thought is to try and get some free help in exchange for some firewood. i'm sure there is always somebody lookin for wood they dont have buy in your neck of the woods. plus nathon918's post hits the nail on the head.


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## nathon918 (Mar 12, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> I like what your saying. Unfortunately the guy was marking trees for me to take down… then wait for me to clear it out. Then mark more trees. The guy lives about 15 miles away and usually can’t be there when I am.



well your post says "Clearing" you're doing thining/selective cutting, 
without a landing theres really no way to do it efficently
id tell this guy if he wanted it done then you need to use the yard as the landing, no logging/tree company in their right mind would work it without a landing.
i understand you're doing it for the wood but with the money your making off of the wood its not worth the time you have into it!
232 hours is a serious amount of time for a job of that size.
1 guy with a cable skidder can do that job in 3-5 days including chipping the brush.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 12, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> well your post says "Clearing" you're doing thining/selective cutting,
> without a landing theres really no way to do it efficently
> id tell this guy if he wanted it done then you need to use the yard as the landing, no logging/tree company in their right mind would work it without a landing.
> i understand you're doing it for the wood but with the money your making off of the wood its not worth the time you have into it!
> ...



Well... the first 1/2 was clearing... now's he is thinning. 3-5 days... makes me feel like I have no business doing this, lol. I'll have to get some pictures of the area tomorrow while I'm there so you can see how far I am.

Also... the guy said he had some professional guys come take a look at it, but I think that since you have to drive really close to his septic tank / leach field to get back to the trees that it may have been a deal breaker.


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## artbaldoni (Mar 12, 2013)

This sounds like a no win situation. I don't think you can make enough on the firewood to recoup all the dollars spent, not to mention labor time (remember labor = $). It sounds like the land owner is getting you to do a normally paid for service for basically free. 

I think the main focus should be to hone your estimating/bidding skills. I think this would have been a "you pay me AND I get the wood" job for me. But in the long run if the job pays for the tools and you gain some wisdom (this is usually expensive) you came out ahead.

How many cords of wood could you buy for the $s you have invested? If you are going to do all the work it should be worthwhile.

I give you an "A" for effort though! :msp_thumbup:


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## c5rulz (Mar 12, 2013)

I agree with nathon 918,

I'd drop the trees, cut off the brush and leave in woods, drag to the edge of the wood, buck up rounds and hand toss into trailer and truck since you are splitting someplace else. If you can get the truck/trailer to the tree, even better. I'd forget about the small arm wood and chuck it in the burn pile. The winch looks neat but must take way too much time. 

With the distance you are traveling you want to come home with as much wood as you can carry everytime. 

Cutting wood is my hobby. I generally can cut, split, load truck with as much as it will hold, and unload/stack 6-7 hours with a 17 mile drive. This is well over a face and a little shy of half cord. This place does not lend itself to a trailer and I can drive to within 50-75' of the wood, (tops, and blown down trees, or damaged). 






See this thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/229574.htm

Today we started on a new spot that has a good 25-30 cord of log ends and rejected culls laying in a field. This is going to have to get done before planting time. We will do this totally different. Once the snow is gone I'll load a trailer (6 x 10') with as many rounds as I can carry, 2 face and then throw a face in the truck. I'll worry about the splitting later as the plan is as quickly as possible. Since these are logs it will go very quick and will probably get a loader to use too. 
However this spot now has way too much snow for access right now. So today we walked in with a saw and a splitting maul, cut a tank ful and then split it on the spot. A buddy and I only worked up a little over a face, but we didn't spend 2 hours either.

My point is adapt and work smart.:msp_thumbup:

BTW, it is starting to ad up.












BTW, I am picking up a 372XP tomorrow for these logs. My rationale is it will be quicker, yah that's it. Pics tomorrow.


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## strangersfaces (Mar 12, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> well first off you have plenty of tools to do this, but you need to go about it totally different.
> ..... *cut it all down!* _start in the back and drop them the opposite of the direction they will be pulled_, from your pics i would say drop them toward the train tracks.
> _then after its all dropped go in and clear out an area (landing) at least 2 tree lengths long. then start pulling logs to that landing (start closest to the landing and work your way back) then limb the logs on the landing then pull them ahead out of the brush and pile them up. this accomplishes 2 things, 1 it gets all of the brush in 1 location so when your done the job just chip it or in your case light it up. and 2 all of your logs are accessible to buck and load into the truck/trailer._
> .....



Only way to go...:msp_thumbup:



FLRA_Dave said:


> I like what your saying. Unfortunately _the guy was marking trees for me to take down… then wait for me to clear it out. Then mark more trees._ The guy lives about 15 miles away and usually can’t be there when I am.



Perhaps a meeting with the both of you in order to mark _all the remaining trees to be removed_, keeping access to the landing in mind...?



FLRA_Dave said:


> Well... the first 1/2 was clearing... now's he is thinning. 3-5 days... makes me feel like I have no business doing this, lol. .......



Education costs. You've been enjoying a continuing education, learning as you go, and unlike many, have had the gumption to stick with it. Admirable...


Are the adjacent RR tracks functional and if so, are they in regular or infrequent use?




If infrequent....




A huge bottleneck your facing is in moving from woods to road, to home, so....


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## Cheesecutter (Mar 12, 2013)

I agree the others-cut it all, drag it to a staging area(s), and pile the logs. You mentioned your brother could bring a skid steer. My suggestion would be to see if your brother could set a day or 2 to help you. I'm assuming he has a heavy built trailer and truck to pull it, maybe you could rent it. You should be able to haul good sized loads on that. Load the logs with the skid steer and a grapple bucket or forks if available. You could have your tractor at home to unload. When you get to the last trailer load of wood you could go back, burn the brush, and toss the last load on by hand. You may have to call off work for a day, but you can definitely move a lot of wood in a hurry this way. Maybe your wife or a friend could run your truck/trailer to speed things up. A couple friends/helpers at this point are worth their weight in gold. 
Here's how we did it a couple years ago- I stayed at the woods with the skidsteer. Between loads I bucked, staged, limbed/brushed, and burned. My buddy and my wife each hauled, 70 mile round trip every 2 hours for 14 hours straight. My step son unloaded at home with FEL.


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## philoshop (Mar 12, 2013)

I admire your work ethic and stick-to-it attitude for sure.
I'm only about 25 miles from you. Geneva. Top of the middle finger of the lakes. :msp_tongue:
Kinda' jammed up myself right now timewise with work and all but I'll make a few phone calls to fellow woodburners for ya'. If you'd be willing to swap wood for work I might be able to help you out, and a couple more pairs of experienced hands and eyes could make a big difference in a weekend of work. Shoot me a PM with a phone number and I'll see if I can help.

Mark


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## zogger (Mar 12, 2013)

All you can do is go in and cut when it is wet, go back and hump it out when dry. I do that here, I have wood down but WAY too muddy to tractor in and drag wood out. I can do it, but seeing as how I am also the guy who mows the fields, that would be me trying to mow over those knee deep or worse rock hard ruts later in the summer..and some I cant get real close to even when dry, gonna have to come up with a big winch thing to get the logs out....more projects...

The homeowner will just have to be more flexible, it just has to be made clear, he wants you to speed it up, so you went in hock for a tractor (which is way cool!!), but now cant use the tractor??? Almost time to walk away from that job, but I also understand you need to recoup enough to pay for your new gear, so you cant. Or you can use the tractor but not right up to the yard and lawn? If that is the case, like the others suggest, leave the tractor there, walk in, go cut and drag, yard it up as close as possible before the no rut zone begins, then go for it when dry and get the logs home then.

See if you can set it up so at least you can load out in the dark and do double trips once you have logs ready to load. See the thread on show us your work lights...


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## Guido Salvage (Mar 12, 2013)

I think the job outmatched your equipment and available time. Scavenging free wood is one thing, land clearing for someone else is an entirely different animal. The only winner in this scheme is the landowner who has avoided having to pay someone to do the work you have provided for free. There is a reason why loggers didn't want the job and your return on investment has shown why. You have learned an expensive lesson but I do admire your work ethic.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 13, 2013)

A lot of great responses... I have a hard time keeping up. I greatly appreciate it.


c5rulz said:


> I agree with nathon 918,
> 
> I'd drop the trees, cut off the brush and leave in woods, drag to the edge of the wood, buck up rounds and hand toss into trailer and truck since you are splitting someplace else. If you can get the truck/trailer to the tree, even better. *I'd forget about the small arm wood and chuck it in the burn pile*. The winch looks neat but must take way too much time.



That's another thing... I've been, for the most part, taking all wood home down to about 2.5" - 3" in diameter. I just have a hard time letting the wood go to waste.

The winch is more for bringing logs in closer for lifting than picking up logs - the jack is used for that portion. It actually doesn't go too bad if the logs are relatively lined up / staged for pickup.



strangersfaces said:


> Perhaps a meeting with the both of you in order to mark _all the remaining trees to be removed_, keeping access to the landing in mind...?
> 
> Are the adjacent RR tracks functional and if so, are they in regular or infrequent use?



Well there's a little more to the story about marking the trees. The actual owner of the property lives in NC. She only comes up every few months to visit family. Her son is who I have been dealing with. I've tried getting him to mark everything, but he seems pretty adamant about marking, clearing, then marking more. I believe his mother with walk with him and give some guidance as to what she would like to see. For free wood... I'm not going to argue too much about it.

Since I've been working there I haven't seen a train go by. There may be enough width for me to drive the 1/4 mile or so down the tracks to the back of the property - just not sure of the legality of doing that though. Also, it's a classic raised railroad bed that mounds up to the tracks... maybe 6' rise or so??? I might be able to get the truck down, but doubtful if I could get it back out. Might be able to back the tractor up the bank. I will look at it in person today after work.



Cheesecutter said:


> I agree the others-cut it all, drag it to a staging area(s), and pile the logs. You mentioned your brother could bring a skid steer. My suggestion would be to see if your brother could set a day or 2 to help you. I'm assuming he has a heavy built trailer and truck to pull it, maybe you could rent it. You should be able to haul good sized loads on that. Load the logs with the skid steer and a grapple bucket or forks if available. You could have your tractor at home to unload. When you get to the last trailer load of wood you could go back, burn the brush, and toss the last load on by hand. You may have to call off work for a day, but you can definitely move a lot of wood in a hurry this way. Maybe your wife or a friend could run your truck/trailer to speed things up. A couple friends/helpers at this point are worth their weight in gold.
> Here's how we did it a couple years ago- I stayed at the woods with the skidsteer. Between loads I bucked, staged, limbed/brushed, and burned. My buddy and my wife each hauled, 70 mile round trip every 2 hours for 14 hours straight. My step son unloaded at home with FEL.


My brother works for a landscaping company and the owner would charge him $250 + fuel (in the truck and skid steer) per day to rent it. Then I would feel obligated to pay him something as well… probably $10-$15 / hr to operate it. So I could see that coming out to $400-$500 for an 8 hour day. Probably not a bad price for the work to get done, but a bit out of my budget – I just sold my old 4 wheeler and 4’x7’ trailer to pay our propane bill.



philoshop said:


> I admire your work ethic and stick-to-it attitude for sure.
> I'm only about 25 miles from you. Geneva. Top of the middle finger of the lakes. :msp_tongue:
> Kinda' jammed up myself right now timewise with work and all but I'll make a few phone calls to fellow woodburners for ya'. If you'd be willing to swap wood for work I might be able to help you out, and a couple more pairs of experienced hands and eyes could make a big difference in a weekend of work. Shoot me a PM with a phone number and I'll see if I can help.
> 
> Mark


This might work as the lot is in Geneva…



zogger said:


> All you can do is go in and cut when it is wet, go back and hump it out when dry.



Yeah… that’s what I’m doing now for the most part – but I take small loads of the ash so I can keep my fire going and that pesky propane bill down.


zogger said:


> The homeowner will just have to be more flexible, it just has to be made clear, he wants you to speed it up, so you went in hock for a tractor (which is way cool!!), but now cant use the tractor??? Almost time to walk away from that job, but I also understand you need to recoup enough to pay for your new gear, so you cant. *Or you can use the tractor but not right up to the yard and lawn?* If that is the case, like the others suggest, leave the tractor there, walk in, go cut and drag, yard it up as close as possible before the no rut zone begins, then go for it when dry and get the logs home then.



Correct… I can use the tractor – just have to stay at the back half of the property.



Guido Salvage said:


> I think the job outmatched your equipment and available time. Scavenging free wood is one thing, land clearing for someone else is an entirely different animal. *The only winner in this scheme is the landowner who has avoided having to pay someone to do the work you have provided for free.* There is a reason why loggers didn't want the job and your return on investment has shown why. You have learned an expensive lesson but I do admire your work ethic.



I agree on that for sure…


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## cnice_37 (Mar 13, 2013)

Dave, you are nuts. You fit right in, have some rep.


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## stihly dan (Mar 13, 2013)

A 45 min drive each way, with less than a cord. No way is that worth it. Charge him or leave.


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## pennsywoodburnr (Mar 14, 2013)

farmer steve said:


> another thought is to try and get some free help in exchange for some firewood. i'm sure there is always somebody lookin for wood they dont have buy in your neck of the woods. plus nathon918's post hits the nail on the head.



I had that thought running through my head too! If I was closer and the offer was still up for free wood, you can bet I'd be over there cutting away! "Free" is always a good motivator. Maybe time to organize a GTG in NY?


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

I was able to drive down the tracks last night… backed the car the 1/8th mile or so down the bed.









Looking down from the tracks:












Incline to RR bed:




Closer shots near ground level:


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

A smidge of water as well:








These ruts are at least a foot deep… not trying to take the 8N through that right now:





It looks like I could drive the 8N backwards up to the trailer on the RR bed… or maybe use the tractor to move the trailer to and from the bed – because I don’t think that the truck would do well going back up with a loaded trailer. It might… if the bed was also loaded and I had it in 4WD. The angles might be too great to even get the trailer up / down… won’t know until I try I guess. 
My old Mennonite neighbors have a Westendorf loader with bucket / forks that they are going to sell that was on their Case compact tractor (they bought a skid steer). I wonder if they would take firewood as payment... Probably not, but crazier things happen.


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## blacknightwolf (Mar 14, 2013)

be nice if you can work out a deal on loader ... looks like long ways to go yet to finish prodject.


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## strangersfaces (Mar 14, 2013)

So now you have two possible exit routes for the logs, with the RR being closest to the landing and accessible when the front trail is too soggy to traverse. Options are good. Might there be a track bed access from the other direction so one could make a circuit rather than having to back 1/8 mile?






zogger said:


> All you can do is go in and *cut when it is wet, go back and hump it out when dry.* ......





nathon918 said:


> ....... *cut it all down!* start in the back and drop them the opposite of the direction they will be pulled, from your pics i would say drop them toward the train tracks.
> then *after its all dropped go in and clear out an area(landing) at least 2 tree lengths long. then start pulling logs to that landing (start closest to the landing and work your way back) then limb the logs on the landing then pull them ahead out of the brush and pile them up. this accomplishes 2 things, 1 it gets all of the brush in 1 location so when your done the job just chip it or in your case light it up. and 2 all of your logs are accessible to buck and load into the truck/trailer.*
> .....



Use these wet times to your advantage. Do as nathon918 suggests, pulling the logs to the preliminary landing to limb, then to the staging landing for eventual loading, in combination with zogger's advice. Burn waste before the dry season ban begins and load out when able.

In the meantime, keep eyes and ears open for someone with a self loading log truck and once found (perhaps someone here at AS?), walk the property together to discuss access, log lengths and trade of wood for services. If you can put this together, you'll not believe how much time and labor will be saved by removing large quantities of wood at one shot. Once the logs are at your property you can buck at your convenience without the minimum hour and a half round trip robbing you of productive hours...

Keep us informed...


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

In this photo you can see that there is a crossing over the tracks… I was looking a bit last night trying to determine if I could do a K turn over this portion of the tracks. Truck alone would be no problem – with trailer???


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## strangersfaces (Mar 14, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> In this photo you can see that there is a crossing over the tracks… I was looking a bit last night trying to determine if I could do a K turn over this portion of the tracks. Truck alone would be no problem – with trailer???



Why not?

Your single axle trailer should make the moves in one shot, with practice...


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> Why not?
> 
> Your single axle trailer should make the moves in one shot, with practice...



Most likely can do it... just don't want to say it will before I actually do it.


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## Jredsjeep (Mar 14, 2013)

why couldent you unhitch and swing the trailer around manually?


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

Jredsjeep said:


> why couldent you unhitch and swing the trailer around manually?


Did you just call me lazy? Hahaha.... Only if I had to.


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## blacknightwolf (Mar 14, 2013)

could take it in with john deere being shorter it would give u room to turn it around . then drop trailer and hook to truck


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## strangersfaces (Mar 14, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Most likely can do it... just don't want to say it will before I actually do it.



We expect VIDEO of the first try... LOL

By all means haul a load home after each day of cutting, WHILE you seek out the larger capacity log hauler...



These ruts are at least a foot deep… not trying to take the 8N through that right now:



To assist in getting logs to landings without having to tractor through Loch Ness during the wet times, consider buying or making/adapting a log nose cone type device such as shown in the Norwood forum thread:




I think they're made by NovaJack or Rigging Specialties and may have also seen them selling at Bailey's..

On the property back home we most times had only a Wheelhorse tractor and trailer with which to bring in the wood off the property. Bucked wood in the trailer took forever. Hauling logs to the bucking area was often beyond the Wheelhorse capability because the butts would dig in. I cut a hole a foot or so from the leading edge of one of our Snow Wing sleds, passed a rope (later a cable) through the hole, wrapped some old innnertube to the rope where it passed through the sled to prevent abrasion, and bygolly, it worked a charm.

Snow Wing


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## Macman125 (Mar 14, 2013)

I would suggest buying some weights for the front of that 8n. When pulling lots of weight the front end likes to come off the ground with those. Or as previously stated find a loader for it. It will help with weight on the front and increase productivity.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

maclovercp125 said:


> I would suggest buying some weights for the front of that 8n. When pulling lots of weight the front end likes to come off the ground with those. Or as previously stated find a loader for it. It will help with weight on the front and increase productivity.



Loader would be ideal. I have had the front tires dangling a few times. If I can remember, I got the suitcase weights for my X534 to hang on the front bumper.


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## zogger (Mar 14, 2013)

The deutz tractor I use has 5 times the mud traversing capabilities with a carry all tote on the rear. Pick that up, you got some mambo weight on the rear wheels. It does have front weights though, but a bucket would work for weight.

I know you will figure it out, thats a lot of wood there to score!

The bottom line is though, in gushy ground and moving weight, tracks rule....they just cost bunches, even the cheapest...


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

What about something along these lines??? I have an old wheel and trailer axle… could use tractor to pull up the logs…


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## strangersfaces (Mar 14, 2013)

That lawn is WAY too nice to be digging it up with logs...

Keep "Equal and Opposite" in mind. Unless the trailer has been somehow fixed solidly into position, the log is more likely to pull the trailer off the track bed.

Could'nt you back the tractor up the incline to load?


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## reaperman (Mar 14, 2013)

I didnt see any mention of whats going to happen to the stumps. I know its probably not your problem, but I'd assume the homeowner is going to want them to disappear. This is going to require a decent sized excavator and dump trucks to remove and haul them, or have them ground. Either way its going to cost him a decent chunk of money for their disposal. Hopefully he appreciates what you are doing for him for free. He should be bending over backwards to help out in any way he can. Keep up the fight.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> That lawn is WAY too nice to be digging it up with logs...
> 
> Keep "Equal and Opposite" in mind. Unless the trailer has been somehow fixed solidly into position, the log is more likely to pull the trailer off the track bed.
> 
> Could'nt you back the tractor up the incline to load?



Nice lawn... I like that one. Never needs cutting - best part about it.z

It was more for pulling logs to trailer from this mess. It's the old dumping (car parts, toilets, garbage, and other odd ball stuff) ground and a bit hilly.






The truck would be attached to the trailer and about 45 degrees to tracks. I was on a time constraint and couldn't get the model set up exactly how I would use it. Was more of the concept that I was trying to show.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

reaperman said:


> I didnt see any mention of whats going to happen to the stumps. I know its probably not your problem, but I'd assume the homeowner is going to want them to disappear. This is going to require a decent sized excavator and dump trucks to remove and haul them, or have them ground. Either way its going to cost him a decent chunk of money for their disposal. Hopefully he appreciates what you are doing for him for free. He should be bending over backwards to help out in any way he can. Keep up the fight.



He was telling me that he wanted to get a doze and excavator in there to dig a hole and put all of the stumps and garbage in, then cover it up. Can you image what those will do to the yard???


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## bert0168 (Mar 14, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> He was telling me that he wanted to get a doze and excavator in there to dig a hole and put all of the stumps and garbage in, then cover it up. Can you image what those will do to the yard???



Ha, do to the yard? How about do to the spot it's buried on in about 5 -10 yrs.

I know it's free wood but this landowner (or the son) sounds like a jackwagon.

But kudos to you for effort.


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## philoshop (Mar 14, 2013)

flra dave,
Got your PMs and phone no. tried to call but got an answering machine for Mike?...no returns.
That's a tough area. I have friends that live around there and looked at property there myself. It'll probably be wet until July or August, if it dries at all. Sorry.
Cutting is no problem. Have saws, will travel. Removal in any volume is another story.
The RR is owned by () and leased by (), and may or may not be currently active. The companies use them as sidings for gravel hoppers from the local quarries so that someone can make the price when road construction starts.:msp_ohmy: Be careful with that. They won't shoot at ya or anything, but they could get nasty.
I'd like to help out, and good ash is hard to find.:msp_tongue: Cut, buck, limb, drag (within reason, I'm an old guy) guide, steer, hook, etc. (I'm not that old) Let me know what you decide.
Good luck.
Mark


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## computeruser (Mar 14, 2013)

stihly dan said:


> A 45 min drive each way, with less than a cord. No way is that worth it. Charge him or leave.



Amen.

When I started scrounging wood, I'd take on stuff like this. No more. It just isn't productive enough to be worth my time, since I don't own equipment or a big enough trailer. I'd sooner buy a tri axle load of stuff and have it delivered. Or do it as a paying job with someone else's skidding kit and keep some of the wood as a bonus.

You asked early on what you needed to do to be productive and effective. The answer is to have proper equipment and to manage the job like a pro. Trees marked, felling done, skidding done, logs removed, skidding tractor goes home. Otherwise the job is over, pack it'd up and call its quits. Unless these folks are good friends or kin, life is too short to fuss with this stuff.

As for helpers, the pay has to be right or you won't get safe, skilled folks. I wouldn't do it for less than $20/hour, and even then only with the autonomy to get the job done right. This shouldn't take a lot of hands, though. All you really need is someone to fell and buck, and someone to skid the logs to the landing, and maybe one more to block the wood up and pitch it in the trailer. 

Anyway, that's my 2c for what it's worth...


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## Dieselbreath (Mar 14, 2013)

I think your bottleneck is all the cutting, splitting, & hauling. I would cut the trees down and call in the u-cutters for whatever your market will cover, probably around $50-$70 a cord. If you want, skid them to a few common areas and let someone else to most of the work.


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## imagineero (Mar 15, 2013)

From the pics, that whole area looks a little less than a days cutting for a good faller. If your falling skills aren't that great you could hire someone in for a day for less than what you might think. They'll come with saws, fuel, chains, and leave lower stumps than you are. They'll lay the logs out real nice, easy skidding. You'll probably learn something from watching it. 

As per all the good advice you already got, limb in the woods and skid the logs out. Maybe a couple days work for 2 guys there. Get in a log truck with a loader and be done with it in another couple days. 

You really poured way too much $ and time into this for what you got out of it. You could have hired in skills and equipment for less than what you outlayed on gear, and made some small profit on it. Alternatively you could have just bought some triaxle loads of logs and enjoyed your life, or worked those 200+ hours for someone else and made some decent money. If you're at the point of selling of vehicles to pay your bills then then probably shouldn't be taking out loans to buy equipment so you can get free (?) firewood. I run a full time tree company and give away truck loads of firewood all the time. 



Shaun


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## blacknightwolf (Mar 15, 2013)

agree mistakes made along the way ,, but 1st experiance and lessons learned ... seams no matter you have to admire the commitment to finish the job that he was committed to. sure in the future lessons learned this time around will lead to different approach in the next undertakeing .


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## Jredsjeep (Mar 15, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Did you just call me lazy? Hahaha.... Only if I had to.



nope not at all, just trying to make sure a simple obvious answer is not being overlooked. i have been in deep enough on figuring things out sometimes i miss a simple fix LOL

you got your work cut out for you!


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 15, 2013)

imagineero said:


> From the pics, that whole area looks a little less than a days cutting for a good faller. If your falling skills aren't that great you could hire someone in for a day for less than what you might think. They'll come with saws, fuel, chains, and leave lower stumps than you are. They'll lay the logs out real nice, easy skidding. You'll probably learn something from watching it.



I’m sure a more experienced person could have done it faster… 1 day? Maybe – I guess I’ll take your word for it. I know you guys can only see what I have posted from the later stages of this, but at the beginning it was fairly tight… not a lot of room to drop trees so they wouldn’t hit the neighbors trees – we used the truck to pull while falling (even then we snapped a few branches). The undergrowth was thick too… lots of vines / poison ivy tangled in it.



imagineero said:


> As per all the good advice you already got, limb in the woods and skid the logs out. Maybe a couple days work for 2 guys there. Get in a log truck with a loader and be done with it in another couple days.
> Shaun


The pain about limbing in the woods is going back into the woods to get all of those limbs. 



imagineero said:


> You really poured way too much $ and time into this for what you got out of it. You could have hired in skills and equipment for less than what you outlayed on gear, and made some small profit on it. Alternatively you could have just bought some triaxle loads of logs and enjoyed your life, or worked those 200+ hours for someone else and made some decent money. If you're at the point of selling of vehicles to pay your bills then then probably shouldn't be taking out loans to buy equipment so you can get free (?) firewood. I run a full time tree company and give away truck loads of firewood all the time.
> Shaun


If you don’t count the tractor and time… I’m still ahead by about $350 - $400. Out of those 200+ hours about 152 of them are my hours. Moving wood from this lot was my “excuse” for buying the tractor – I’ve been wanting it for a while for use around the house (but get my wife to let me get it is another story – hence put myself in a pickle to get it). Can’t count the full price of the equipment anyhow… it’s used for so much more than this job – hard to quantify it at least. 

And about the loans… I know debt free is the way to be, but I figure there are a lot of things that one shouldn’t do in general. I got it by refinancing an existing loan, which raised my monthly payment by less than $3… more money in the long run for sure, but gets me through what I need for right now.


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## jrider (Mar 15, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> He was telling me that he wanted to get a doze and excavator in there to dig a hole and put all of the stumps and garbage in, then cover it up. Can you image what those will do to the yard???



He is willing to pay for that but not pay you? I would tell him to pound sand.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 15, 2013)

jrider said:


> He is willing to pay for that but not pay you? I would tell him to pound sand.



I don't know what his connections are, but he was telling me that he used to operate heavy equipment and that he would be doing it...


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 15, 2013)

Was just messaging back and forth with my brother on skid steer options. 

_Steel tracks optional:_

S175 or S185

_Rubber tracked:_

T190

_May or may not be available:_

S650


If I went this route (how I’d pay I don’t know)… what would be better – steel or rubber tracks? No tracks at all? Or would they all sink in the muck?


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## reaperman (Mar 15, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Was just messaging back and forth with my brother on skid steer options.
> 
> _Steel tracks optional:_
> 
> ...



All of the machines above are more than suitable. If the conditions are muddy, steel tracks are the way to go. If not muddy, the t190 would be nice because you wouldnt have to worry about getting flat tires and leaving ruts. The 650 would work also, but is most likely going to be more expensive and the other machines. The other machines will work as fast as the 650 and burn less fuel, but their lift rating isnt as much, but more than capable for what you are doing. 

I assume your wanting to use the bobcat for carrying out logs. If your just renting one to pretty up the guys woodlot, save your money. Especially if he's going to bury stumps. Which is going to be a much larger undertaking than he thinks.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 15, 2013)

reaperman said:


> I assume your wanting to use the bobcat for carrying out logs. If your just renting one to pretty up the guys woodlot, save your money. Especially if he's going to bury stumps. Which is going to be a much larger undertaking than he thinks.



I was thinking that one of them with forks (I don’t think they have a grapple) could drive right into the water / mud and we could load 4’ lengths onto the forks (to make it between still standing trees) and dump onto the truck / trailer / stage for easy pickup. 4 footers could be loaded with 2 guys without too much of a hassle if the trailer was right next to them.

Then after that’s done the brush piles could be picked up and put on top of the burn pile. I currently can only push the piles against each other with makes for a much longer burn. My current pile is roughly 30’ long by 15’ wide and 4’ tall or so.
I think that the bobcat with a few ground guys that the rest of the work can be done within a day. Probably not haul all of the wood off the lot, but if it’s staged for easy loading, then it’s no big deal.


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## slowp (Mar 15, 2013)

Time for the real solution.

Muddy ground? Not a problem. Get a yarder and rig up a high lead system. :msp_smile:
Yup, they work well on flat ground and you won't need a carriage--butt rigging will do. You could even turn your tractor into a yarder with the additional purchase of blocks and line. You should have a spar of some kind in order to get a tiny bit of lift which we call in contractual language, "One End Suspension". That keeps the log from plowing ditches in the dirt. 

High Lead Cable Logging


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## hardpan (Mar 15, 2013)

The landowner is getting a screaming deal. I'm guessing he got a quote and was shocked at the price and was lucky to find you, but he will not tell you. I think Nathon has a great plan to do it like a logging operation but you must have the trees marked completely. I immediately saw a red flag when you mentioned 8" of standing water and then Philoshop confirmed the wet hazard until mid summer. Plan on staying out of the wet spots. You are not in terrible shape unless you hoped to pay for your equipment with this one job. My strategy for buying expensive tools is always to depreciate it over time and take good care of them to maintain a lot of their value, and of course it is much easier to clear with the "boss".

Keep an eye open for the next cutting area as the landowner may continue to be unreasonable and eventually squeeze you out. As already mentioned a tree service company is always looking for a place to dump closer to their jobs.


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## old_soul (Mar 15, 2013)

Wow that looks like an acre (or more) to clear. That job would run 3000-5000 dollars minimum depending on stump grinding and access to the site. Even more if he does not allow any heavy equipment. Right there is $ left on the table, that he should be paying YOU!

Now you see why everyone else didn't want the job. Run away run away, you are getting major screwed over here.......

That said, you are after free wood, and you have a tractor on site. 

*fell tree, hitch up to back of tractor, drag out to area where truck is. buck until you get into the muddy part of the log, push tops into pile with back blade. repeat. Try to stay in the same tracks back and forth so that you don't do extra damage to the "lawn" *

I don't understand the wasted time in bucking to 4 foot lengths in the woods, all that does is make more trips in and out. Why must they be loaded in lengths? Those rounds are small, once bucked they should be easy to toss into the truck. No need for winches, cranes, all that bs. Only takes a few minutes to buck up on site.

IF the owner fusses about tracking, take your tractor and head on down the road. A better job will be on the horizon.

Not busting your balls man, good on you for trying to make some extra cash for your family. If you were closer I'd send a couple dump truck loads of logs over and drop them in your driveway. Peace


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 15, 2013)

old_soul said:


> *fell tree, hitch up to back of tractor, drag out to area where truck is. buck until you get into the muddy part of the log, push tops into pile with back blade. repeat. Try to stay in the same tracks back and forth so that you don't do extra damage to the "lawn" *
> 
> I don't understand the wasted time in bucking to 4 foot lengths in the woods, all that does is make more trips in and out. Why must they be loaded in lengths? Those rounds are small, once bucked they should be easy to toss into the truck. No need for winches, cranes, all that bs. Only takes a few minutes to buck up on site.



Well… if the truck is parked out by the road, then that’s probably around 500’ to be carrying blocked wood out by hand. If I park on the tracks, then that’s closer… closest would be 20’ or so and up to about 300’. I don’t have a bin for my tractor to carry to the tracks… but I was thinking about getting a pallet to stack rounds on to carry to the truck on the tracks. I was thinking that 4’ could be placed on the carry all forks.

The 4’ with the skid steer was because it gets tight in some spots where existing trees are. I’ve been back and forth in my head about blocking everything up vs logs… I’ve done both and am not sure if one is that much better than the other.


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## zogger (Mar 15, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Well… if the truck is parked out by the road, then that’s probably around 500’ to be carrying blocked wood out by hand. If I park on the tracks, then that’s closer… closest would be 20’ or so and up to about 300’. I don’t have a bin for my tractor to carry to the tracks… but I was thinking about getting a pallet to stack rounds on to carry to the truck on the tracks. I was thinking that 4’ could be placed on the carry all forks.
> 
> The 4’ with the skid steer was because it gets tight in some spots where existing trees are. I’ve been back and forth in my head about blocking everything up vs logs… I’ve done both and am not sure if one is that much better than the other.




I just built a big box that you can back into with normal rear hay forks. Basically a big pallet with sides. Works great. No need to buy one, should only take you one evening to make it, its just a box.. Made it with a removable back panel, just slips in and then a hinge and pin to lock it. I can carry big weight with it, limited only by the fork rating, which in my case is one ton even, box plus cargo. . Going uphill I go backwards. Left and right brakes are your friend in deep mud. You can adjust the height level, to the ground, roll rounds in, then later lift to suit and roll the rounds right into your trailer. Top point you want angled in a little of course once you go to move, mine is hydraulic, but the manual adjusters are fast enough. I use this a LOT to get to areas where it is impractical to go with a trailer. The most useul tool I have on this whole farm. Its in this thread, and other guys 3 point lifts.

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/202030.htm

The pics of your terrain, meh, baby mud...get trailer attached to truck close as possible, go get tractor with tote box..go get mass quantities wood, bring to trailer, fill up, go home, dump, go back. Or just use the tractor box and get as much as you can to your staging area as possible, then come back later and fill a big dump truck or something, whatever.

With the box on the back and full of logs and rounds, you got serious dig in traction. Just dont overload it, you can tell when you go to start pulling away, the front end will lift. Go real real slow the first few times you use it until you get used to it. Take some off if it is too full. Youll learn real quick how much you can tote.. Better extra trips than overloading.

edit: I would NOT try climbing up and down that railroad embankment, thats just too steep and gnarly. I would just go through the woods, thats it. And joe homeonwer is gonna have to get real on the ruts, or walk away from the job. Im serious, sounds like he is turning into an unreasonable ####head about it. Easy enough in the spring, at the end of the job, to scrape it flat and throw some grass seed down.


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## Patrick62 (Mar 15, 2013)

*I just went down that learnin' curve*

My problem was a little larger at 12 acres, and several thousand trees to be removed. I had essentially 5 months to move 140 some cords of wood. I did it, but with a few interesting twists.

First thing was to borrow a honking big trailer. Second thing was to get a tractor to load the logs with. Next I needed a skidder, and improvised with a jeep and a winch rigged up on the back. Then it was simple, drop and limb them and skid them into a deck. Load the decks onto the trailer and it is outta here! Slash could have been piled up and burned like you are doing but with my cut it was lop and scatter.

What would I do in your situation. Could that tractor run a front lift? That would have been my choice. Second would have been a decent used skid loader. That trailer is pretty small, but with the hard wood you got the pickup would not wanna pull it...

If it was easy.... someone else would do it!

grin and bear it.


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## reaperman (Mar 15, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Well… if the truck is parked out by the road, then that’s probably around 500’ to be carrying blocked wood out by hand. If I park on the tracks, then that’s closer… closest would be 20’ or so and up to about 300’. I don’t have a bin for my tractor to carry to the tracks… but I was thinking about getting a pallet to stack rounds on to carry to the truck on the tracks. I was thinking that 4’ could be placed on the carry all forks.
> 
> The 4’ with the skid steer was because it gets tight in some spots where existing trees are. I’ve been back and forth in my head about blocking everything up vs logs… I’ve done both and am not sure if one is that much better than the other.



If you do end up renting a bobcat, I'd most definitely drag a entire tree from the woods with it. Thats how I cut all of my firewood. I cut down the tree, chain the entire tree to the bobcat and drag it to where its continent. Believe me, all of the bobcats mentioned above will drag out an entire sized tree anywhere you want it to. Even weaving between trees is possible.
Here are a few photos of trees and logs all dragged by bobcat to a central cutting area.


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## farmer steve (Mar 16, 2013)

i havent seen this question& and not to be a smart a##. was this a "free firewood" on CL? also the 3pt. carryall will not handle more than 4-500 lbs. 3 pt forks would be better if u are doing 4 ft. lenghts.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 16, 2013)

farmer steve said:


> *i havent seen this question& and not to be a smart a##. was this a "free firewood" on CL? *also the 3pt. carryall will not h
> andle more than 4-500 lbs. 3 pt forks would be better if u are doing 4 ft. lenghts.



Sure was...

I wanted forks, but I couldn't find any in my budget at the time. I think that the 8N is only rated for 800 lbs or so on the 3 point, so I thought that a 1000 lb rated carry all would have worked.


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## farmer steve (Mar 16, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Sure was...



dolp


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 18, 2013)

I knew I had a better picture somewhere from the first week or so...






This past Saturday was mostly cleanup... My son helping to keep the fire going:






I started cutting some wood up to take home for the day:






Here I got the rented Colorado (our truck is getting body work done from deer accident) up on the tracks:






The carry all (minus pallet) was working great to consolidate the burn pile:






My son trying to show off his muscles. You can see the truck up on the tracks in the back ground:






Not the most productive 3 hours on the lot (never really is when I bring the kids with me), but we get some family time in which is good.


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## blacknightwolf (Mar 18, 2013)

good to see your son helpin out,,, the tractor seams to do a good job with the brush.what are the stakes next to the tractor for?


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 18, 2013)

blacknightwolf said:


> good to see your son helpin out,,, the tractor seams to do a good job with the brush.what are the stakes next to the tractor for?



I believe that they burn all of the yard waste on top of their garden (seemed like there was a rectangle outline in the grass). Stakes are only on one end though... Not really sure.


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## Cheesecutter (Mar 18, 2013)

As far as burning brush piles...that is the one thing I will never do on someone else's property. Personally, I don't want the liability for it and it eats up a lot of my time. I make it very clear up front...I'll pile it, but will not burn it. Most landowners understand.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 18, 2013)

Cheesecutter said:


> As far as burning brush piles...that is the one thing I will never do on someone else's property. Personally, I don't want the liability for it* and it eats up a lot of my time.* I make it very clear up front...I'll pile it, but will not burn it. Most landowners understand.



Boy does it ever... Probably have 8-10 hours into just burning so far.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 19, 2013)

Ok... I did some figuring (I've been keeping a spreadsheet of most of my time). This is my 24th week at the lot and I personally have 156 hours into the entire project... which includes lot work and splitting back home / delivering. On the lot itself I have spent 75 hours. 

So 75/24 = ~3 hours per week spent at the lot itself.

And (156-75)/24 = ~4 hours per week doing everything else.

I think I have 15-20 more hours on the lot left to rid myself of this project... Looking forward to it!


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## hardpan (Mar 19, 2013)

I also see a young man enjoying the outdoors and learning how to work - priceless.


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## blacknightwolf (Mar 19, 2013)

also think it is great son is out there helping and learning,,, the lessons learned there will certainly carry on with them all though their lives. never know some day they maybe talking and refer to that time dad and son spent in woods!!:msp_smile:


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## hardpan (Mar 19, 2013)

blacknightwolf said:


> also think it is great son is out there helping and learning,,, the lessons learned there will certainly carry on with them all though their lives. never know some day they maybe talking and refer to that time dad and son spent in woods!!:msp_smile:



I guarantee it.


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## autoimage (Mar 19, 2013)

thanks for sharing the story and pics...cant say anything thats already been said


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## Mike from Maine (Mar 19, 2013)

I just read this whole thread. Lots of good points. 

I might have missed it but do you have any sort of liability insurance? And I would be hesitant to use the railroad you could be liable for any damage done to the embankment. Or you could be cited for trespassing.

To me the landowner is getting a really good deal. I'd be a little tough with him at this point. Tell him your terms -- such as all trees marked, the access road may get roughed up etc. OR you will walk. I understand him not wanting you hauling wood out during the height of mud season. But he can't expect the area to be pristine when you are done either.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 19, 2013)

Mike from Maine said:


> I just read this whole thread. Lots of good points.
> 
> I might have missed it but do you have any sort of liability insurance? And I would be hesitant to use the railroad you could be liable for any damage done to the embankment. Or you could be cited for trespassing.
> 
> To me the landowner is getting a really good deal. I'd be a little tough with him at this point. Tell him your terms -- such as all trees marked, the access road may get roughed up etc. OR you will walk. I understand him not wanting you hauling wood out during the height of mud season. But he can't expect the area to be pristine when you are done either.



Nope... No insurance. Have thought about looking into it. Progressive is my insurance carrier... Do they offer it? Or is it special insurance companies? Is it expensive? Not sure how much of this work I'm doing either... Better safe than sorry if its cheap enough...


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## timberland ts (Mar 19, 2013)

Ny is high i use td insurance when i was part time i was insured for logging and tree work. Price went by earnings. Under 50k a year was 1900 a year. Dont ask what it is now full time. Makes me cringe.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 19, 2013)

timberland ts said:


> Ny is high i use td insurance when i was part time i was insured for logging and tree work. Price went by earnings. Under 50k a year was 1900 a year. Dont ask what it is now full time. Makes me cringe.


:msp_scared:


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## Dale (Mar 20, 2013)

Haven't read posts other than yours, but I'll toss 2 cents at it..

You got yourself into a mess...... period. The guy that owns that lot is making out like a bandit on your time and effort. I'm not sure how good of a friend the lot owner is with you, or even if he's a friend at all, but here's what I'd do. Tell the guy you made a slight error in judgement (understatement). Next, tell him you need to get a machine in there in order to make REAL progress (since he is posing a deadline). Tell him he is going to have to foot MOST of the bill for it if he wants the job done. In real machine, I'm talking a tracked dozer. Get in there, knock the trees down, and let a good machine operator manipulate the wood into manageable places that will better accommodate what you need to do with it (haul/burn, etc...).

This guy is using you like a tool, and making out like a bandit. You are actually making no money, realistically, and having to buy equipment to perform the task..... and not too well I might add. STOP THE BLEEDING. If the guy won't go for the machine......... WALK AWAY. You're getting killed. :msp_confused:


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 20, 2013)

Dale said:


> Haven't read posts other than yours, but I'll toss 2 cents at it..
> 
> You got yourself into a mess...... period. The guy that owns that lot is making out like a bandit on your time and effort. I'm not sure how good of a friend the lot owner is with you, or even if he's a friend at all, but here's what I'd do. Tell the guy you made a slight error in judgement (understatement). Next, tell him you need to get a machine in there in order to make REAL progress (since he is posing a deadline). Tell him he is going to have to foot MOST of the bill for it if he wants the job done. In real machine, I'm talking a tracked dozer. Get in there, knock the trees down, and let a good machine operator manipulate the wood into manageable places that will better accommodate what you need to do with it (haul/burn, etc...).
> 
> This guy is using you like a tool, and making out like a bandit. You are actually making no money, realistically, and having to buy equipment to perform the task..... and not too well I might add. STOP THE BLEEDING. If the guy won't go for the machine......... WALK AWAY. You're getting killed. :msp_confused:



If he doesn't mark any more trees then I have only 3-5 trees I believe to take down. The rest is getting the wood out and everything cleaned up. I'm pretty sure he wanted more down, but since this is being dragged out, I think he is stopping so I can wrap it up. So probably no need to get a dozer or anything in there. Looks like my brother should be able to work with me this Saturday morning... so that'll help.


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## FLRA_Dave (Mar 24, 2013)

This past Saturday was a fairly decent day to get some work done. My brother and a member on AS, Philoshop, was able to give a hand for about 4 hours. I didn't get much for pictures at the start of the day... that was pretty much going over the site and getting a game plan for the morning. I was driving the tractor through the mud and water to carry some sections of an Ash tree (21" where I cut it near the base) back to more stable ground... but on the second run in the mud must have loosened up a bit and I ended up getting stuck. Luckily the truck has new tires / 4X4. We got it pulled out.

8N post pull... And Philoshop snagged my drawbar from sinking into the mud - Thanks again!







After we got what we wanted pulled out for the day we started blocking it up.

My Brother (notice the mud on the 8N's wheel):






Philoshop (on left in back) with his dad (in back to the right of Philoshop - in his 70's and still going strong):






I didn't get a picture of Philoshops bounty for the day, but he got about a 1/3 cord.

Here is what I was able to load before I had to leave... about 2/3 cord or so I think.






My brother in law let me use some of his shop today and I got this chunk of Hickory(?) squared up... might try to inlay some pictures or something. It's nice to see a semi finished product from a tree you harvested.






I think we did ok for 3 (4 for the last 45 minutes) of us in about 4 hours. Still a ways to go though - we didn't even get all of what we pulled out blocked up before we had to call it quits. 

As a side note... I did the "K" turn with the trailer on the first shot, with no fiddling around, on the tracks.


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 1, 2013)

Not so eventful this week... but I figured I get an update in. My brother was able to help out for about 1.5 hours and I was there about 3 hours. We got a fair amount burned and I left with ~1/6 cord on the truck with a little left on the ground ready to load the next time I'm over.

My brother (wonder if he know I keep taking pictures of him?):






What I got on the truck:


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## Jakers (Apr 1, 2013)

im enjoying readin this one

opcorn:


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 22, 2013)

Some good news and some not so good news. 

Not so good news: I'm still working on it with what feels like a ways to go.





















Now the good news: Finally was able to pick up a loader! Won't help me anytime soon, but it will be nice to have. Hopefully I can get it mounted before fall / winter gets here. I know that loader and an 8N isn't then best combination... but for $300 I couldn't pass it up.
















I still need to get a loader valve (selling a few car parts on eBay right now to pay for the valve) and figure out how I'm even going to get it mounted, but I'm sure I'll come up with something.

I forgot to mention... I personally have 172.5 hours in so far.


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## bert0168 (Apr 22, 2013)

Have a "YOU SUCK" for the sweet score on the loader.

I wouldn't have passed it up either. :msp_thumbup:


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## Jakers (Apr 22, 2013)

if i were you id list that baby on craigslist for 2k and make a down payment on a kubota or like compact tractor. thats a nice loader and a STEAL at 300 buckeronies


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 22, 2013)

Jakers said:


> if i were you id list that baby on craigslist for 2k and make a down payment on a kubota or like compact tractor. thats a nice loader and a STEAL at 300 buckeronies



I wish it was that easy. I was actually emailing back and forth with the local JD dealer over the weekend about a 2320. It really is out of my budget. I'm already paying $200/mo with JD... Another $300 wouldn't be a good idea.


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## bert0168 (Apr 22, 2013)

Jakers said:


> if i were you id list that baby on craigslist for 2k and make a down payment on a kubota or like compact tractor. thats a nice loader and a STEAL at 300 buckeronies



Jakers isn't lyin', that's easily $1500 MIN all day. And for one in less shape than what that one looks to be.

What's your secret to getting a deal like that?


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 22, 2013)

bert0168 said:


> Jakers isn't lyin', that's easily $1500 MIN all day. And for one in less shape than what that one looks to be.
> 
> What's your secret to getting a deal like that?



No secret really. My old neighbor just wanted to clear out some stuff from his farm. He bought the skid steer that is in the pictures and took the loader off of his Case compact. Figured he'd sell it to me just to get rid of it so it wasn't cluttering up the place.


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## bert0168 (Apr 22, 2013)

Arrrggg, I saw the last pic, it came with a bucket AND forks?

Stole it is an understatement. I'm jealous, that would work beautifully on my IH 240 (it's the right color too :msp_angry


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## rmount (Apr 22, 2013)

As I see it, you're ending up with some firewood, an 8N and time in the bush with your boy - ya look at it that way and its not a bad deal at all


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 29, 2013)

It finally started to dry up a little (still some standing water though). I was able to make a path to the other side of the water. Only I think I loaded it up a little too much on the second trip and went to go up one of the little hills... the front end began hanging and the carry all set down in the mud/dirt. I got hung up. Had to unload and maneuver a bit to get it out. Only a 20 minute set back... had to carry the wood through the mud and back onto the carry all. Decided to call it a day after that trip (my back was beginning to yell at me). Only ended up with just under a 1/3rd cord of Ash for the day.

Stuck:





















And after I got it out:






If anyone is interested in joining me sometime... just send me a PM.


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## zogger (Apr 29, 2013)

When I have a heavy load on the tote, I have to back up hills. And pretty much steer with the left and right brakes a lot of the times.


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## rmount (Apr 29, 2013)

The picture with the hub jammed against a tree looks far too familiar :hmm3grin2orange:


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 29, 2013)

rmount said:


> The picture with the hub jammed against a tree looks far too familiar :hmm3grin2orange:



In the 3rd picture you can see where it got a little tight and the lugs ripped off the bark of a ~6" diameter tree... looks like that one will be coming down as well.:msp_rolleyes:


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 29, 2013)

I can back into brush piles and lift them up to move them, but I can't go forward - everything slides right off. I think I'm going to have to make something like this:

[video=youtube;vlzebWyN_iA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlzebWyN_iA&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I figure it would be hand operated (lever to operate from seat???). It would also be nice to help secure the load.


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## gilraine (Apr 29, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> I wish it was that easy. I was actually emailing back and forth with the local JD dealer over the weekend about a 2320. It really is out of my budget. I'm already paying $200/mo with JD... Another $300 wouldn't be a good idea.


what about trading in the X534 towards a 2320 or a 2520. my neighbor has a 2520 that he mows his lawn with.. that way you get a much more useful and capable machine out of the deal.. just an idea


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 29, 2013)

gilraine said:


> what about trading in the X534 towards a 2320 or a 2520. my neighbor has a 2520 that he mows his lawn with.. that way you get a much more useful and capable machine out of the deal.. just an idea



The salesman at the Deere dealer suggested that... but as soon as I brought it up to my wife it was shot down. Shoot... I was thinking that I could trade the 8N, FEL, and the X534 towards a 2320. I do really like the old 8N though. Maybe I'll test the waters with the salesman a bit more and try to get an idea of what I would be looking at.


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## philoshop (Apr 29, 2013)

Looks like you're keeping it moving Dave.:msp_thumbup:
Wish I could get back out there to help again, that was a pretty good morning all around. Alas, construction season is upon us and it's darn short as it is.
Keep up the good work, and stay safe.
Mark


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## FLRA_Dave (Apr 29, 2013)

philoshop said:


> Looks like you're keeping it moving Dave.:msp_thumbup:
> Wish I could get back out there to help again, that was a pretty good morning all around. Alas, construction season is upon us and it's darn short as it is.
> Keep up the good work, and stay safe.
> Mark



What I had on that trip was the larger Ash that was hanging over the water that you were working on. Still got at least half the tree out there to get out.


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## zogger (Apr 29, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> The salesman at the Deere dealer suggested that... but as soon as I brought it up to my wife it was shot down. Shoot... I was thinking that I could trade the 8N, FEL, and the X534 towards a 2320. I do really like the old 8N though. Maybe I'll test the waters with the salesman a bit more and try to get an idea of what I would be looking at.



Those N series fords look to be lasting like 2 to 300 years or something, until we have anti gravity drive (that us peoons can get...). You see them things still in use and hanging in there all over.


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## FLRA_Dave (May 6, 2013)

Got out there for about 5 hours this past Saturday. Did a lot of clean up (with much more to go). I'm guessing I was able to get a little under a 1/3rd cord on the truck for the day (was resting on the stops).

Got the morning started buy getting a couple fires going... and kept feeding them throughout the morning.







Bringing my 3rd load out and I get the 8N stuck (carry all bottomed out again - think I need to add a second set of pins lower to increase lift height and tilt). Had to tow it out with the truck.






These guys are going to hang out here until it's not so wet.






Almost loaded up for the day.






All done for the day.






On the way home I stopped at the Deere dealer and checked out / drove a 3032E w/305 loader. I sure do like it. Got them quoting me the 3032E with 305 FEL (w/materials bucket), AV20H grapple, R1's, and the 2 rear SCV's (one for grapple and one for hydraulic top link???). We will see...


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## nathon918 (May 6, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Got out there for about 5 hours this past Saturday. Did a lot of clean up (with much more to go). I'm guessing I was able to get a little under a 1/3rd cord on the truck for the day (was resting on the stops).
> 
> Got the morning started buy getting a couple fires going... and kept feeding them throughout the morning.
> 
> ...



hope you got around 30g's for that...


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## farmer steve (May 6, 2013)

dave forget the green. to much $. go blue or red.View attachment 293915


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## FLRA_Dave (May 7, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> hope you got around 30g's for that...



Got the quote in this morning... $19,420.21 before tax, trade, and down payment.

I currently have $1,950 worth of trades, $300 from selling my old log splitter, and whatever I would get from selling the TA-111. I would be keeping the X534 for mowing. Salesman isn't sure about putting the grapple on ($2,051.35)... Thinks it might be too heavy to be useful. Says it uses up about half of the loader lift capacity. From looking online, it looks like the grapple weighs about 381 lbs and the 305 loader lift to full height @ 500 mm is about 845 lbs. If going on those numbers... that's about 461 lbs of capacity (depending on load placement).


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## nathon918 (May 7, 2013)

is it new or used?

id forget that new tractor, and look for an 80's JD 950 or 1050 4x4 with a loader, 
they were made by yanmar, for JD 
even being about 30 years old already, they will still outlast the new tractors out there today, with normal maintenance
theres a reason why the old equipment is still around like your 8N it was built to last, not like the throw away junk they make today...
incase you cant tell, im not a fan of most new things


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## FLRA_Dave (May 7, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> is it new or used?
> 
> id forget that new tractor, and look for an 80's JD 950 or 1050 4x4 with a loader,
> they were made by yanmar, for JD
> ...



That was for a new tractor. I had looked for a while before getting the 8N for an older 4x4 tractor, but I thought the price was high for most of them. That's what was pushing me towards buying a new one instead.


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## FLRA_Dave (May 23, 2013)

Well... Looks like I'm going to be getting the 3032E with 305/Materials bucket, AV20H grapple, and the rear hydraulic kit. Signed for it last night. It won't be in until mid July though because I wanted R1's on it and apparently it's a pain to try and get tires to swap for a tractor with R4's on the lot (they don't stock wheels / tires I guess). I'll be keeping the X534 and the 8N (for now... may sell to pay off the loan on the car). The TA-111 is pending sale this Saturday morning for $1,250.

Just seems like they should be able to get tires in... Doesn't it?


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## hardpan (May 23, 2013)

I have a 4310 which is similar. Sitting next to it is my 8N that I have owned for 33 years. The 4310 can do so much more especially with the loader and 4WD. You will love the JD. The R1 tires will have considerably more bite but at a price. When crossing a lawn they will mark/print/dent the turf much more if the ground is damp. It is a toss up. I have R4 tires, sometimes I like them, sometimes I'm spinning and wanting R1s. Keep the rpms up and the diesel has a lot more power, so now I am always replacing shear pins on my brush hog. That's OK, the 8N will sit until I can sell it.


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## FLRA_Dave (Aug 19, 2013)

I finally got the 3032E out to the lot this past weekend. It sure has grown in since the last time I was there in May. The grapple has been great. I have been able to move so much more material with it. The loader doesn't quite have the power (or my technique is bad) to pull out some of the smaller trees, but overall it does well. If I sink the teeth of the grapple into the ground (about 8 inches) it can't lift it out - I have to back up and raise it a bit to keep moving along the ground during raking.

Here are some pictures...











Here I pushed back some of the growth to make some room...






I'm going to have to get some weight on the back blade to help with counterweight. The 12' (three 4' sections) of cherry (?) in the pictures was about as much as I'd want to carry as it sits rights now.


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## zogger (Aug 19, 2013)

Nice buggy man!!! You be a wood grabbing foo' now!

...give ya 50 bucks for that old raggedy ferd...I mean, can't leave that parked around your house...what *would* the neighbors say???

HAHAHAHAHAHAH


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## FLRA_Dave (Aug 19, 2013)

zogger said:


> Nice buggy man!!! You be a wood grabbing foo' now!
> 
> ...give ya 50 bucks for that old raggedy ferd...I mean, can't leave that parked around your house...what *would* the neighbors say???
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAH



Thanks... I sold the 8N for $2000 in July to pay my car off to make it easier on myself. I sure wish I could have kept it... It's a fantastic tractor.


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## philoshop (Aug 19, 2013)

Nice looking rig Dave.
I had fun working with you earlier this year.
OK, I mostly bucked, and watched while you worked the drag line (did you buy some rope with that tractor?), but we got some wood out of that swamp! A good day for the memories book. Sorry I couldn't help more.
Mark


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## olyman (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm going to have to get some weight on the back blade to help with counterweight. The 12' (three 4' sections) of cherry (?) in the pictures was about as much as I'd want to carry as it sits rights now.[/QUOTE]

still working that lot??? man o man.....


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## FLRA_Dave (Aug 20, 2013)

olyman said:


> still working that lot??? man o man.....



Yeah, I took a break from May 18th to August 17th because the guy was running behind on all of his stuff as well and it was just too soggy. Even now I have to be a little careful to make sure I don't dig myself into a hole where the water sat all spring/early summer.


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## zogger (Aug 20, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Yeah, I took a break from May 18th to August 17th because the guy was running behind on all of his stuff as well and it was just too soggy. Even now I have to be a little careful to make sure I don't dig myself into a hole where the water sat all spring/early summer.



Take that scraper blade off and stick a tote box or fork back there. If you need extra weight in the back, it might as well be logs...


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## FLRA_Dave (Aug 20, 2013)

zogger said:


> Take that scraper blade off and stick a tote box or fork back there. If you need extra weight in the back, it might as well be logs...



I had thought about putting the Carry-All forks on with a box on it to throw rounds in, but the blade is nice when I need to make room or as a hook point to skid out the logs. I'm sure the Carry-All would work as a hook point with a box on it. I have often thought about adding stake pockets at the end of the Carry-All forks and use them without a box.


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## zogger (Aug 20, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> I had thought about putting the Carry-All forks on with a box on it to throw rounds in, but the blade is nice when I need to make room or as a hook point to skid out the logs. I'm sure the Carry-All would work as a hook point with a box on it. I have often thought about adding stake pockets at the end of the Carry-All forks and use them without a box.



My boss has like millions of dollars of gear on this farm, and says the big tote box I built to slide on the hayforks is the coolest tool here. I know I use it a lot, for all sorts of chores, plus getting wood out.

ya I think your forks on the back could possibly be used as a light duty boom like skidder attachment, just stay inside weight limitations so they don't get all bent up. Plus carrying small logs with your stake idea. Getting wood out at both ends at the same time seems the way to go, however you figure out how to do it.


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## FLRA_Dave (Aug 26, 2013)

Got another 3 hours in over the weekend. It was pretty much just trying to find any trees laying in the growth and pulling them out as I only have one more tree to drop (that will be the big 3'-4' diameter cottonwood next weekend). 

Here I was moving a tree that had fallen into the guys yard... it was a standing dead that the weather uprooted. It was nice being able to lift it over the burn pile and to carry it down to where I was cutting everything up.







Here the same tree was after I cut it up while the tractor held it off the ground.






Since the yard was so nice, I didn't want to drag much through it, so I pulled the trees down the path and cut it into 4' lengths and turned them 90 degrees...






Then turned around and pushed them into a pile and picked it up (two trips for this one).






I dumped them here for now. I have been taking one truckload with me each time I go and when I have enough piled up I will bring the trailer over and load it up.


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## Johnny Yooper (Aug 26, 2013)

there have been so many great suggestions here, I doubt I can add anything to that. But, I will say one thing: if more people had your work ethic, this country would be in a helluva lot better shape.


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## FLRA_Dave (Aug 30, 2013)

I finally got the last tree down (with a friend from work there in case something bad happened)... a 46"-ish diameter cottonwood - my 20" bar wasn't enough to get half way through it from any side. It took about an hour of cutting and rethinking what I was doing, but it went down perfect. It was late, so the video came out dark, but you get the idea. Tomorrow morning I'll be cleaning it up.

[video=youtube_share;8dD6P7Zeivo]http://youtu.be/8dD6P7Zeivo[/video]


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## stepup (Aug 31, 2013)

I would hate to see what would happen if you really put your mind to something.


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## artbaldoni (Aug 31, 2013)

Way to keep at it!

I think anybody who cuts their own wood knows that it's a lot of hard work. We all started doing it the hard way, just like you did. Some maybe harder but with tenacity and ingenuity we continue to improve our process. 

Kudos to everybody who fends for themselves!!


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## FLRA_Dave (Sep 1, 2013)

Here is a good chunk of the follow up cleanup of that cottonwood.

Some pictures before I got to work:






Not sure how much it helped to keep it away from the neighbors trees, but I thought it better to do it...











Just had to get another shot of this great little tractor...






This was after I was done for the day. You can get a good idea of what got cleaned up from where the leaves are on the ground...






Here are the original full length videos. I will be posting a consolidated video in a bit to keep in under 3 minutes.

Cleaning Up Cottonwood #1 - YouTube

Cleaning Up Cottonwood #2 - YouTube

Cleaning Up Cottonwood #3 - YouTube


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## farmer steve (Sep 1, 2013)

glad to see ya got a tractor that will do the job. like the grapple, never was to fond of that color:msp_w00t:but if it works go to it. know you will like it..FS.


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## philoshop (Sep 1, 2013)

My hat is off to you, my friend! That place was a ba..-buster from word go. I admire your grunt, and love the new tractor. 
I eyeballed that cottonwood when I was out there in the spring and you told me it had to come down.  It might have been a little quicker with the 260, but with your Poulan? I'm impressed!!
I got to hang drywall today.


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## FLRA_Dave (Sep 1, 2013)

philoshop said:


> My hat is off to you, my friend! That place was a ba..-buster from word go. I admire your grunt, and love the new tractor.
> I eyeballed that cottonwood when I was out there in the spring and you told me it had to come down.  It might have been a little quicker with the 260, but with your Poulan? I'm impressed!!
> I got to hang drywall today.



Yeah, the little Poulan started smoking when I was about 3/4 the way done the night I dropped it... turns out the plastic case got a little toasty and began melting on the muffler. The bar and chain seemed to be oiled enough... maybe the exhaust was deflecting off the tree and making the plastic soft (my hand was almost getting burnt a few times). There are no spikes on the little Poulan and I was getting the saw as deep in the tree and I could get it.


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## philoshop (Sep 1, 2013)

Time to start looking through the classifieds for a saw, Dave! Although, I suppose you could just use the tractor to feed whole trees into the stove a bit at a time. :msp_w00t: Just ribbin' ya my friend.

I have farmer friends ask me once in a while to do small hedgerow clearing and similar stuff. I don't have the transportation end of my wood-gathering worked out, (no way to haul the tractor or any serious quantities of wood) and I'm honestly about out of room for wood right now anyway :msp_biggrin:. I'll give you a call if anything looks promising. No swamps, I swear.
Regards,
Mark


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## FLRA_Dave (Sep 1, 2013)

Ok... Here's the sped up video. Hopefully it's just my PC that has a hard time playing it clearly. My local copy plays very clear compared to what I see while on YouTube.

Deere 3032E with AV20H Grapple Cleaning Up Cottonwood - YouTube

Attached is what I'm seeing...

OK... Looks good now - must have been a connection issue with my 3G / mobile broadband (No DSL/Cable available at my place).


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## philoshop (Sep 1, 2013)

I wasn't sure if that was really sped up. Only slightly above normal for you!

Dude, get yourself some chaps. Please! You have far too many good years ahead of you.


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## artbaldoni (Sep 1, 2013)

I also recommend moving the saw well out of the way of moving equipment...and dump trucks...not that I have ever run over a saw with a dump truck...:taped::msp_crying:


How wide is your grapple?


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## FLRA_Dave (Sep 1, 2013)

artbaldoni said:


> I also recommend moving the saw well out of the way of moving equipment...and dump trucks...not that I have ever run over a saw with a dump truck...:taped::msp_crying:
> 
> 
> How wide is your grapple?



Yeah, that poor saw has been ran over before... Had to replace the chain brake cover. In the video you can se that I knocked it over... Was watching carefully when I did it. In the sped up video it's like watching a race... Just waiting for an accident.

I believe the grapple is 60" wide. I like that the lid isn't full width... Allows me to reach into tight spots on occasion.


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## zogger (Sep 1, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> Yeah, the little Poulan started smoking when I was about 3/4 the way done the night I dropped it... turns out the plastic case got a little toasty and began melting on the muffler. The bar and chain seemed to be oiled enough... maybe the exhaust was deflecting off the tree and making the plastic soft (my hand was almost getting burnt a few times). There are no spikes on the little Poulan and I was getting the saw as deep in the tree and I could get it.



The collected firewood brethren international do hereby giveth thou permission to acquire a larger pro saw...go get em!


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## philoshop (Sep 1, 2013)

Yeah that. :agree2:
And some chaps.:deadhorse:


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## rarefish383 (Sep 2, 2013)

Wow, I haven't been following your whole post, just checking in now and then. That "Green Paint" sure made the 8N look and run better. Will you get an aerial view of the finished project? I wish I had one guy like you, I might not have retired, although, retired is pretty nice too, Joe.


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## hardpan (Sep 4, 2013)

After all these years I finally got a tractor with a loader, then you post a video of a tractor very similar to my new one with a grapple........damn-it man.


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## FLRA_Dave (Sep 9, 2013)

Last Wednesday I loaded up some of the cottonwood... The trailer could really use a couple new tires, so I didn't want to push it too much.












I got Wednesday's load cut up and stacked on Friday night so that I would be ready to bring another load home on Saturday morning. I spent a lot of time getting some of the trunk cut into manageable sizes. I had to noodle a crotch piece and use the teeth on the grapple to break / pry it apart so the loader could even lift it (4 ft wide).






This weeks M-F task will be to get this load cut up and stacked... and repeat on Saturday.


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 21, 2013)

Just wanted to follow up. I finished up on October 18th - just over a year. I didn't take any pictures though. It was a lot of work, but well worth gaining some experience. I still have the Poulan 2055, but picked up an MS441R C-M - nice saw!


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## Cheesecutter (Dec 21, 2013)

Followed through the whole job and acquired some nice toys along the way, Nice!!!


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## HD2010 (Dec 21, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> well your post says "Clearing" you're doing thining/selective cutting,
> without a landing theres really no way to do it efficently
> id tell this guy if he wanted it done then you need to use the yard as the landing, no logging/tree company in their right mind would work it without a landing.
> i understand you're doing it for the wood but with the money your making off of the wood its not worth the time you have into it!
> ...


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## jrider (Dec 21, 2013)

How much wood did you end up pulling out of there?


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## Stihlman441 (Dec 21, 2013)

Nice thread
Just wondering if you can fell,block,split,load trailer and sell the wood straight from the site.


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 21, 2013)

jrider said:


> How much wood did you end up pulling out of there?


Looking over my spreadsheet puts it at nearly 25 cord.


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 21, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Nice thread
> Just wondering if you can fell,block,split,load trailer and sell the wood straight from the site.


If I had more than a few hours a week on site then it might have been feasable. I had more time available at home to process than on site. When I was selling, it was easier to have the wood at home to load up rather than adding at least an hour of driving to go get it.


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## nathon918 (Dec 21, 2013)

wow thats ALOT of time for $1800 (high end) worth of standing timber...
usaully $50-60 a cord stump price around here...


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 21, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> wow thats ALOT of time for $1800 (high end) worth of standing timber...
> usaully $50-60 a cord stump price around here...


I agree that it took longer than it really should have. Although I feel that it was all very well worth it.


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 21, 2013)

Looks like there was about 350 man hours on the project. That included getting it all split. My numbers could be bit off as I was getting a little less diligent with my record keeping towards the end.


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## zogger (Dec 21, 2013)

FLRA_Dave said:


> I agree that it took longer than it really should have. Although I feel that it was all very well worth it.




I think you did a fine job. Learned a lot, got to practice different things, accumulated some nice gear, got ahead on wood.


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## cre10 (Dec 21, 2013)

Wow.


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## nk14zp (Dec 22, 2013)

Glad to see someone with a great work ethic and willing to do what it takes to get the job done.


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## philoshop (Dec 22, 2013)

Congratulations on finishing up Dave. That was a heck of a project!
I wish I could have helped more. I'm burning some of the ash as I write this. Thanks!


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## 1967 Tempest (Sep 29, 2014)

FLRA_Dave said:


> My splitting area (modified Deere Model 52 splitter).
> Meanwhile back home… I purchased a Speeco slip on 4 way wedge from TSC for ~$65 to speed up the splitting (much improved!).



This looks very similar to a Didier splitter. Is it? I am looking for a 4 way and do not wanna spend a crazy amount.

Thanks,
Dave


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## FLRA_Dave (Sep 29, 2014)

1967 Tempest said:


> This looks very similar to a Didier splitter. Is it? I am looking for a 4 way and do not wanna spend a crazy amount.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave



I'm not sure who made the splitters for Deere, but I noticed as well that they are very similar to the Didier models.


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## Zeus103363 (Sep 29, 2014)

you really could use one of these!







Thanks


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## FLRA_Dave (Oct 7, 2015)

Zeus103363 said:


> you really could use one of these!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I forgot all about this reply...

Got one in April of this year!!!


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## olympyk_999 (Oct 7, 2015)

how long until you have one of everything made by Wallenstein????


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## DrewUth (Oct 8, 2015)

This thread struck home because I got myself into a much smaller scale but similar situation earlier this year. I was/have been doing some light tree work for a friend that sells and installs solar power systems. He hired me to clear an area in an older woman's yard for a truly massive array- about 180' long. Keep in mind that while the array was only 180'x15' in size, trees need to be opened up in a big way to let light in. So the total area that had to be cleared was around 100 yards wide by 200 yards long. I did 75% of the work on my own, in May, with nothing more than a saw and a pickup truck. I did get a bobcat for two full days to smooth out the property, and the forks were awesome for moving longs and placing them in piles along the property line. I didn't have to move the wood from the lot- but it did need to be stacked neatly. I was paid for the job, and I do get to go back and get firewood from the woman- she needs help around the house, so I get to barter that.

I only say it was similar as it was a lot of work for one person, and I was in over my head (experience wise for sure) for most of the job, however I can say without a doubt that the experience I gained was immeasurable- as I'm sure it was with you Dave. I can also identify with the feelings of working as hard as you can until you are physically drained, and still feeling like you are miles away from the finish line. Again- no real comparison, my job took me 5 full weekends, not a year. Much smaller scale, but the woman was angry all the time because of the delays in reducing her $900/month electric bill!


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## FLRA_Dave (Nov 16, 2015)

Just thought it would be appropriate to post this here as it seems to show a nice timeline of my progress.

Got me a new 5045E!

- H240 loader
- 73" bucket (thinking I might add teeth to it)
- RB2184H (7ft, hydraulic angle/manual tilt back blade)
- CID Professional Series stump bucket (due in by the weekend I think)
- Telescopic end links (they are sending them with the stump bucket)
- 2nd set of rear remotes
- 14.9x28 rear tires
- iMatch (Cat I)
- Heavy Hitch gooseneck trailer mover

When delivered:




















Wasted no time getting it dirty!






3032E couldn't do this!






Yeah, don't think I even want to pick up anything to that height.






Tight fit!


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## FLRA_Dave (Nov 16, 2015)

More pics of them side by side:


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## zogger (Nov 16, 2015)

You certainly have made steady progress! I can tell by your posts you are loving it as well!


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## FLRA_Dave (Nov 16, 2015)

zogger said:


> You certainly have made steady progress! I can tell by your posts you are loving it as well!



I sure do. Will have about 75 cord delivered this year. Goal of 100 cord next year. Doing most of this as a family has made this a wonderful time in my life.


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 13, 2016)

Well... It just keep getting out of hand, lol. Picked up the newest addition last week! It's a 50D.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 13, 2016)

I need to stop reading....getting WAYYYY to jealous, lol

Can you tell us your secrets as to how you got all these purchases approved with the boss lady? Inquiring minds want to know....and attempt to do the same


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 13, 2016)

sirbuildalot said:


> I need to stop reading....getting WAYYYY to jealous, lol
> 
> Can you tell us your secrets as to how you got all these purchases approved with the boss lady? Inquiring minds want to know....and attempt to do the same



Yeah... about those approvals. I don't recommend the technique of her responses turning into "I don't know why you even ask me. You are going to do whatever you want anyways!". I have to be very careful and recognize when she really means business or is just getting annoyed.


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## burnses (Dec 13, 2016)

I read bout all the post and ii just not sure what to say.....I hope ya get it done with out any one getting hurt....im am by no means a pro feller but when your done take some of your profit and take a felling class.......just seems like a lot of misdirected energy to me but ya gotta have a project I guess...looks like ya got a lot of some type of invasive vine species there Plus gonna have stump sprouts out your ears too I would guess. Looks like ya got a vernal pool in the middle there....


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 14, 2016)

The best part is how looking at your signature, you not only got a new 5045, but you managed to also keep the 3032. Damn you Dave...damn you!!!


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 14, 2016)

sirbuildalot said:


> The best part is how looking at your signature, you not only got a new 5045, but you managed to also keep the 3032. Damn you Dave...damn you!!!



Yeah, there are many times that I regret selling the 8N. I hate that feeling.


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## lindnova (Dec 14, 2016)

I just read this post all the way through for the first time. You Have come a long way FLRA_Dave! I wanted to reply with comments but not relevant in an old thread. Learning the hard way does work and luckily you didn't get hurt. Bigger saw, truck, equipment organization etc. all come in time and tough experience and I bet you wonder how you got that job done and what you were thinking back then trying to do it with nothing. Sounds like you were strapped for time between work, family and the clearing. Great that the family is out with you now. Any family time, even working time is priceless. Your kid may grow up not wanting anything to do with firewood, but you are teaching him some great life lessons now.

BTW, jealous also of your tractors.


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## FLRA_Dave (Dec 14, 2016)

lindnova said:


> I just read this post all the way through for the first time. You Have come a long way FLRA_Dave! I wanted to reply with comments but not relevant in an old thread. Learning the hard way does work and luckily you didn't get hurt. Bigger saw, truck, equipment organization etc. all come in time and tough experience and I bet you wonder how you got that job done and what you were thinking back then trying to do it with nothing. Sounds like you were strapped for time between work, family and the clearing. Great that the family is out with you now. Any family time, even working time is priceless. Your kid may grow up not wanting anything to do with firewood, but you are teaching him some great life lessons now.
> 
> BTW, jealous also of your tractors.



Yeah, it's been interesting at times. Still have a bunch of the same constraints, but now that the kids are getting older (11, 7, & 5) it is getting easier. If I had what I do now (knowledge and equipment) I probably would have got that done in a few weeks and actually make a little bit of money. I never would have imagined that this is where I would be almost 4 years ago. Unfortunately I have yet to make any profit (only grossing about $45/hr right now) due to not being able to put the hours in. I still only average about 9 hours a week. I just keep reinvesting and getting my name out in the community. The 6 acres I'm clearing right now for a farm (I get the saw logs/firewood) was from them contacting me - so that was a good feeling. Hopefully I'll still manage to keep my head above water for a while longer, lol.


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## muddstopper (Dec 14, 2016)

I remember reading this thread back when you first started it. I agree with others, you have came a long way. I will make a suggestion as to using the proper equipment to get the job done. Skidders and knuckleboom loaders, tractors with FEL and logging winches are handy things to have around, but I never had any of those things back when I was clearing house lots and road ways. What I used and still think is one of the handiest tools to have was a cable loader on a 2ton truck. We had a bigstick pulpwood loader and log loader as well as a Kennemore log loader at different times. Each loader held 200ft of cable. On the biggest majority of any lots I cleared, if I could get the truck to the lot, I could cut and load everything sitting in one spot. Didnt have to skid logs thru or drive thru mud holes, not make any ruts that had to be filled in later. Pileing brush was a breeze, just drag the tops up to one spot and chop them up. Used to clear creek banks by dragging the cable down thru the middle of the creek and then sawing all the brush down on top of the cable, throwing the cable across the top of the brush and hooking back in itself, winch it up tight and you have a 100ft of creek bank cleared in one pass and the brush hanging from the truck boom which you could just drive to the pile and drop off.Have a bad leaner you want to fall a certain direction, just hook up the cable and pull the way you want it to fall. Heck, dad was a lineman for the TVA, he would climb to the top of some trees , hook up the cable and just winch the tree over without cutting them off the stump. Dont see many of those old big stick loaders any more, everyone gave them up for the skidders and knuckle booms, but If you run across a old one somewhere, you might want to check it out for jobs just like the one your original post was about.


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