# Greenteeth Sharping



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 18, 2011)

I had a guy down the street that has a sharpening service (he sharpens everything but bandsaw blades) sharpen my greenteeth. He said he did them before, but when i picked them up today, I noticed that 3 of the teeth dont really have a concave on them like the rest. Do you think this will matter? Are the teeth gonna cut good or like crap? The top tooth is one of the ones in question. The bottom tooth is one of the ones that looks very simular to a new tooth.
View attachment 212110


----------



## imagineero (Dec 19, 2011)

it will make no difference. The important angle os the one on the side of the tooth, looks ok to me. You're not supposed to sharpen the side though, just the cutting face. It's really not that hard to do, especially if you have a drill press and a bench grinder. 

Get a 60 grit green wheel for your grinder, set the grinder up on the table of the drill press, clamp it down it you can. You want it right under the chuck. Put the tooth in the chuck and set the drill for the lowest speed. Turn the grinder, on, turn the drill on. Use the drill arm to lower the tooth onto the grinder. Dont pull too hard, let the wheel do the work. Grind only the face until you have a sharp edge again. No need to ever sharpen the side of the tooth.

Very quick and easy way to sharpen your teeth.

Shaun


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 19, 2011)

imagineero said:


> it will make no difference. The important angle os the one on the side of the tooth, looks ok to me. You're not supposed to sharpen the side though, just the cutting face. It's really not that hard to do, especially if you have a drill press and a bench grinder.
> 
> Get a 60 grit green wheel for your grinder, set the grinder up on the table of the drill press, clamp it down it you can. You want it right under the chuck. Put the tooth in the chuck and set the drill for the lowest speed. Turn the grinder, on, turn the drill on. Use the drill arm to lower the tooth onto the grinder. Dont pull too hard, let the wheel do the work. Grind only the face until you have a sharp edge again. No need to ever sharpen the side of the tooth.
> 
> ...



Could you post a pic of our setup?


----------



## imagineero (Dec 19, 2011)

I dont have greenteeth, I have a different tooth setup on my machine with the old straights, lefts, rights. I remove the steel portion of my teeth with an angle grinder, then sharpen the carbide with a bench grinder with the green wheel. 

I have seen this type of setup that a friend has, and he got it from the green teeth website. They probably have a US one, but the aus one is here;

Greenteeth Australia - Stump Grinder Cutter Teeth

If that link doesnt work, then go to the green teeth website and click on 'sharpening'. They have good diagrams and info there.

Shaun


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks for the info. looks like i got toys to buy. lol.


----------



## imagineero (Dec 20, 2011)

No worries. Save your money and buy second hand. There are so many drill presses and bench grinders out there, you can get a second hand bench grinder for about $20 if you look around, and a reasonably good drill press for about $100. Try to get a drill press with at least a 1hp motor. It's a great tool to have. The floor standing ones save some bench space, but the half height ones sell for a fair bit less. Look for 12 or 16 speeds, especially if you do metal work. You'll appreciate the low speeds.

The special green wheels for grinding carbide can be a bit tricky to find. I had to special order mine in. I got one made by norton. They were about $15 I think. I got a 60 grit and a 100 grit because I didnt know which I'd need. The 100 was way too slow. 60 was about right.



Shaun


----------



## flushcut (Dec 20, 2011)

Be very cautious of the dust generated wear a mask and set up a shop vac for ventilation. The last thing you want to do is breath in carbide dust and the silica dust from the wheel they are known to cause cancer and silicosis. Try and find a diamond wheel that will at least eliminate the silica dust part and it will out last a green wheel many times over.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 20, 2011)

I will probably buy the wheel greenteeth sells.


----------



## imagineero (Dec 20, 2011)

The diamond wheels also cost about 10~15 times as much. It's a hard call getting one, especially if it's a custom size, getting a diamond wheel to do my stump teeth on would likely be in the $600+ range. That would buy me about 40 green wheels. I havent figured out yet how many sets of teeth I can get out of a green wheel, but so far I've got 6 full sets of teeth sharpened on my first wheel (12 teeth per set) with no noticeable wear. That's about 3 months stump grinder use for me. I'm guessing by the wear on the wheel that I can probably get about 20 full sets sharpened for each wheel, or approximately $0.60c per full set of teeth sharpened. That would approximate out to about 9 months out of each wheel at the rate I grind stumps. Multiplied by 40 would see a diamond wheel lasting at least 30 years to make it worthwhile. I hope I'm not still grinding stumps in 30 years ;-)

My personal take on things like silicosis is that people probably take them too seriously. I'd put asbestosis in the same category. A single dose of cyanide will kill you on the spot, but there are people that worked their whole lives in asbestos mines with no protection and not all of them got sick. It can't be that bad for you. Same story with silicosis which you can get from anything with sand in it. Concreters are in the high risk category but I've not ever seen a guy shoveling cement with a dust mask on. 

Yeah carbide is bad. Work outside if you can, or use a shop vac. Wear a dust mask if you like to live careful. At the level of exposure you're likely to see doing the odd set of stump teeth It's probably not a huge deal. Way less dangerous than smoking, drinking, driving a car, operating a chainsaw, or any other thing in your life. Take the right precautions, but dont blow it out of proportion.

Shaun


----------



## flushcut (Dec 20, 2011)

How the hell do you guys make a living down under? Sweet Jesus $600 for a diamond wheel yikes! 
I preach the use of a mask because I have had a good friend die from silicosis and he was a mason but like anything "to each their own".


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 20, 2011)

Treen man Supply 1/4" diamond wheel for sharpening greenteeth $169.95


----------



## TreeAce (Dec 20, 2011)

imagineero said:


> I dont have greenteeth, I have a different tooth setup on my machine with the old straights, lefts, rights. I remove the steel portion of my teeth with an angle grinder, then sharpen the carbide with a bench grinder with the green wheel.
> 
> I have seen this type of setup that a friend has, and he got it from the green teeth website. They probably have a US one, but the aus one is here;
> 
> ...



In those directions, Has anyone tried "method 1"? Does it work ok? I will be sharping 700 series. The last I checked my Dads old drill press worked so I should be able to set up "method 2" without to much trouble. But I really only want to do a handful here n there. I switch the lead teeth often but the rest last a long time.


----------



## imagineero (Dec 20, 2011)

They're not all that expensive. The cyclone CBN/ABN wheel I bought for my chain sharpener was only $250. Admittedly it measures only 4mm wide (5/32") x 5" and isnt actually a true diamond wheel. The wheel listed above is pretty good value at 4" x 1/4" and is a diamond wheel.

Because I use the straights/lefts/rights style of teeth I'd need a fairly wide diamond wheel to dress the teeth, maybe an inch wide x 6" so it would fit on my grinder. I havent seen a wheel this wide available, the closest I came to it was 6"x3/8". That's narrow enough that I start worrying about my fingers. That wheel was $400. There's also the question of how coarse the diamonds will be, and how well adhered to the glue. Diamonds are nice tough things, but the glue they get stuck on with is often not strong enough to hold them there. I've yet to find a 6"x1" wheel, but if I do I'm guessing it would be in the $600 area if it was any good. Even so I dont think you'd get a guarantee with it. 

Even fairly large machine shops use green wheels for their carbide.

Shaun


----------



## imagineero (Dec 20, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> In those directions, Has anyone tried "method 1"? Does it work ok? I will be sharping 700 series. The last I checked my Dads old drill press worked so I should be able to set up "method 2" without to much trouble. But I really only want to do a handful here n there. I switch the lead teeth often but the rest last a long time.



havent tried it or seen anyone try it but I guess it would work ok if you've got a steady hand. If you've got access to the drill press I'd go that way though. If the drill press has a keyless chuck you can really crank out a lot of teeth real fast. Having sharp teeth on your grinder makes for less strain on the motor and quicker grinds. I try to change my teeth out pretty often for sharpening. 

Shaun


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 20, 2011)

I am going to buy the required machines and wheels for method 2 and I will let you know how it works. I should have it up and running in a couple days or a week.


----------



## TreeAce (Dec 20, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I am going to buy the required machines and wheels for method 2 and I will let you know how it works. I should have it up and running in a couple days or a week.



Cool. Please keep us posted cuz I am def interested in hearing about it.


----------



## Tree Raptor (Dec 20, 2011)

*Green Teeth Sharpening.*

I found this thread very interesting and informative. I did not realize that you (homeowner) could sharpen greenteeth. I have quite a few of them, 100+ and was thinking of sending them to a professional to sharpen as they do have to be done concave. Does anyone know of an outfit that will do greenteeth and how much. Right now they are just over $10 apiece so probably would not want to spend too much in sharpening. I suppose if someone did them for 3 to $4 each that would save 1/2 cost of buying new ones. I wonder how many teeth that diamond wheel mentioned would last before it wore out.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 28, 2011)

Green manufacturing told me that the diamond wheel will last for 150 to 200 teeth. If you have a water or carbide cutting fluid drip, then you will get about 300 teeth out of a wheel. I would think you would need something to catch the fluid in, and the grinding wheel would fling that off, and make a heck of a mess. I have everything to sharpen now, except the wheel, and it should be here by friday. I found a 15in 1hp craftsman floor drill press on craigslist for $200. I picked up a new craftsman 8in grinder for $150.


----------



## imagineero (Dec 28, 2011)

good score on the drill press, hope it's in good order. You'll be surprised how handy it comes in, they're a great tool to have around and nothing else does the same job.

I was kind of surprised at how few teeth you get out of a wheel, that makes the cost per tooth pretty pricey compared with what I'm doing at the moment. Nearly $1 per tooth. I guess it's worth remembering that you get three faces on greenteeth, which makes the cost per face a bit less. Still a lot cheaper than having them done in a shop... and I think the diamond wheel would be faster than a green wheel and less hazardous/dusty. I always grind outside because of all the dust. I know when I went to a diamond wheel on my chain sharpener it was a lot faster and virtually zero dust compared to the pink wheels I'd been using before.

Let us know how it all turns out! 

Shaun


----------



## TreeAce (Dec 28, 2011)

As the wheel gets smaller from use does that change the shape of the "cup" on the sharpened tooth? I guess not enough to matter?


----------



## Tree Raptor (Dec 28, 2011)

*daimond wheel on chain sharpener*



imagineero said:


> good score on the drill press, hope it's in good order. You'll be surprised how handy it comes in, they're a great tool to have around and nothing else does the same job.
> 
> I was kind of surprised at how few teeth you get out of a wheel, that makes the cost per tooth pretty pricey compared with what I'm doing at the moment. Nearly $1 per tooth. I guess it's worth remembering that you get three faces on greenteeth, which makes the cost per face a bit less. Still a lot cheaper than having them done in a shop... and I think the diamond wheel would be faster than a green wheel and less hazardous/dusty. I always grind outside because of all the dust. I know when I went to a diamond wheel on my chain sharpener it was a lot faster and virtually zero dust compared to the pink wheels I'd been using before.
> 
> ...



Hi Shaun, just caught the comment about the diamond wheel on chain sharpener. I use the black wheels that I purchase from Silvey the company that makes my bench sharpener. I did not know that a diamond was avail. What is the difference in the standard wheels vs the diamond. Why no dust ? and what is the cost. I currently have 2 wheel sizes, one for the 3/8 chain for the 460, 362 and such and one small (thinner) wheel for the 200t and 192t chains. I would imagine that I would have to do the same if I switched to diamond ?

thanks,


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 28, 2011)

As far as the wheel getting smaller with use. I dont think that a diamond wheel will really decress in size with use. And as the green wheels wear, you just have to adjust your setup.

Baileys sells two types of chain grinding wheels:

Diamond wheel for carbide teeth only chain @ $199. 
Dinasaw 5-3/4" ABN Cyclone Grinding Wheels for sharping regular chain @ $259 each


----------



## imagineero (Dec 28, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> As the wheel gets smaller from use does that change the shape of the "cup" on the sharpened tooth? I guess not enough to matter?



Most diamond wheels dont really wear, they are made of steel with a diamond coating on the outside. When the diamond coating wears off the wheel doesnt cut anymore, but they dont change by any significant amount in diameter. Some companies offer a replating service for about half the cost of the new wheel so you can just keep re using the same wheel. 

My take on it is that the diamonds dont really wear out, they fall off. Companies use all kinds of fancy words for how they attach the diamonds, but basically its all glue. Some companies have better glue than others. If you are hard on the wheel, it gets hot. Especially grinding carbide! The heat weakens the glue, and the tiny diamond particles fly off. Pretty soon there are none left. Thats why the water cooled wheels last a lot longer - they dont get as hot.

I do my carbide on cheap green wheels and the carbide gets plenty hot. It's no big deal for the carbide, carbide is made to run as hot as you like when machining. Doesnt do the wheels any favors though.

Shaun


----------



## imagineero (Dec 28, 2011)

Tree Raptor said:


> Hi Shaun, just caught the comment about the diamond wheel on chain sharpener. I use the black wheels that I purchase from Silvey the company that makes my bench sharpener. I did not know that a diamond was avail. What is the difference in the standard wheels vs the diamond. Why no dust ? and what is the cost. I currently have 2 wheel sizes, one for the 3/8 chain for the 460, 362 and such and one small (thinner) wheel for the 200t and 192t chains. I would imagine that I would have to do the same if I switched to diamond ?
> 
> thanks,



There are plenty of good reviews on AS about diamond wheels. After reading many good reviews on the cyclone here, I bought that. Lots of other members are using the same wheel. Most 'diamond' wheels are not actually diamond wheels but ABN/CBN wheels. The cyclone is an ABN/CBN wheel. You need a true diamond wheel for carbide chain, but I found sharpening my one carbide chain with m cyclone works just fine. It probably reduces the life of the wheel a little, and isnt recommended by the manufacturer but I havent noticed any problems so far.

The advantage to the diamond wheels are that they never need dressing. They are quite a bit faster, and dont blue/burn cutters unless you really try hard to burn one. The dust comes mostly from the wheel, with the diamond wheel the wheel doesnt wear, so almost no dust. You do get a couple sparks. They last a long time. I was trying to get some data on how long, but the only answer I found was very long. Some guys have had them in a saw shop for 10+ years. Thousands of chains is what you are looking at. I got my cyclone for $250. They can make them any size you want.

I run 3/8" on all my saws except the 200t's which use 3/8"LP. I have one saw using .325". The guy recomended a 4.0mm wheel but I wish I'd gotten one a little larger, 4.5 or 4.8, maybe even 5.0? I could probably use my wheel on the 3/8"LP as well, but I do those by hand. It takes less time than pulling them off and doing them on the machine. 

Shaun


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 30, 2011)

*Machine setup update*

Got my Diamond wheel in the mail today.







My grinders holes in the base line up with the holes in my tilt/ rotate table on my drill press, so I am going to try bolting the grinder directly to the drill press. I am just guessing that they say to add the plywood because the holes might not line up. I put the wheel on, but I need to get more washers for spacers because the shoulder on the arbor of the bench grinder is pretty far back from the nut to accomidate the thick grinding wheels. I am gonna get the rest of the washers I need tomorrow, and bolt this down to the drill press and give it a go. I will post more pics of it all set up with a tooth in it and what it looks like after sharpening.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 1, 2012)

*Got it running today*

Got a chance to get it running today. The hardest part is getting the drill press centered over the grinder.

Before Pic






I used the teeth that guy sharpened for me and messed up for the test teeth.

After sharpening


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 1, 2012)

Heres the video. Sorry its sideways, and I dont know how to rotate it. I had a hard enough time just getting signed up to post it on you tube.

[video=youtube;H6msyq9vYcI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6msyq9vYcI&feature=youtu.be[/video]


----------



## TreeAce (Jan 1, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Heres the video. Sorry its sideways, and I dont know how to rotate it. I had a hard enough time just getting signed up to post it on you tube.
> 
> [video=youtube;H6msyq9vYcI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6msyq9vYcI&feature=youtu.be[/video]



Cool! Thx for posting. Now I am inspired to get that set up going. I have a drill press and a grinder that was my Dads so I just need a wheel. I think I remember seeing on the Greenteeth web site( I think) but it suggested using a small lazer pointer in the drill chuck inorder to line up the wheel underneath.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah, that might work, but i noticed each tooth is a little different in the chuck. I set my drill press speed to about 300 rpms. I also setup a fan to blow the dust away, and I am gonna wear a resperator too. I found the weight on the handle doesnt work well on my setup because a 2.2 lb weight isnt enough to hold the drill chuck down because it is spring loaded. I just put a light bit of pressure on the handle. Takes about a minute a tooth. I am calling 3m tuesday also. They make the wheels, and I am hoping I can get them from them cheaper because of being direct.


----------



## Tree Raptor (Jan 2, 2012)

*sharpening Greenteeth Cont'd*



TreeAce said:


> Cool! Thx for posting. Now I am inspired to get that set up going. I have a drill press and a grinder that was my Dads so I just need a wheel. I think I remember seeing on the Greenteeth web site( I think) but it suggested using a small lazer pointer in the drill chuck inorder to line up the wheel underneath.



I am assuming that you line up the center axis of the diamond wheel with the center axis of the greentooth, correct ? If this is the case then in your video is appears that you have to do quite a bit of grinding to allow the diamond wheel to begin cutting that concave shape and allow it to continue to the outside edge of the tooth as there seemed to be quite a gap when you first began. Also I believe I was told that no cutting of the outside of the tooth, just the face. If the outside is cut than the tooth diameter becomes a tad smaller and you end up wearing the hex nuts that attached the tooth to the pocket faster as it is not being "shielded" by the bigger diameter tooth as a brand new tooth would do. 

How much for the diamond wheel and where did you buy it. 

Did you ever calculate how much it will cost you to sharpen each tooth (obviously an average since some grind longer) by taking the cost of the diamond and dividing it by the total number of estimated cuts you would get ?

Just trying to figure out whether is will be cheaper to self sharpen or hopefully find a reasonable sharpening facility. You kind of have to factor a little of you time in there too as you could be doing other things, quotes, repairs, other maintenance.


----------



## pdqdl (Jan 2, 2012)

imagineero said:


> ...
> My personal take on things like silicosis is that people probably take them too seriously. I'd put asbestosis in the same category. A single dose of cyanide will kill you on the spot, but there are people that worked their whole lives in asbestos mines with no protection and not all of them got sick. It can't be that bad for you. Same story with silicosis which you can get from anything with sand in it. Concreters are in the high risk category but I've not ever seen a guy shoveling cement with a dust mask on.
> 
> Yeah carbide is bad. Work outside if you can, or use a shop vac. Wear a dust mask if you like to live careful. At the level of exposure you're likely to see doing the odd set of stump teeth It's probably not a huge deal. Way less dangerous than smoking, drinking, driving a car, operating a chainsaw, or any other thing in your life. Take the right precautions, but dont blow it out of proportion.
> ...



OMG! You have got to be kidding.

Please read up on this a little bit more before you give dangerous advice like that. The exposure from carbide grinding dust is more than just how much of it you do. It also depends on the individual sensitivity to the chemical. Not all people are at equal risk.

Health and Safety Risks of Grinding Tungsten Carbide and Other Tool Tipping Materials.

Regardless of your personal sensitivity, inhaling the dust is cumulative. Do it for a lifetime, and you will have problems. More dust=more problems. _*So how many problems do you want in your old age, assuming that you ever get there?*_


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 2, 2012)

I will recap the thread for you.Yes you have to line up the axis. Bought the current wheel at treeman supply for $169. I am checking on getting it cheaper elsewhere. The tooth I ground was sharpened by someone using a green wheel and they ground it almost flat. That is why it took a while to get the concave back in it. He also cleaned up the edges of the tooth too. I asked him before I dropped them off if he knew how to sharpen them. He said he does, and has been doing this other tree services teeth for a couple years. Well he obvisoly dont know how to sharpen them. He charged my $63 to sharpen 18 teeth and I had to wait a week for them. I was told by treeman supply that you should get about 160 sharpenings out of a dry wheel. It will only take about 1 min to sharpen a tooth.


----------



## gorman (Jan 2, 2012)

I send mine to al gordon in Alabama. With shipping (flat rate box) I get 20 1100's sharpened like razors for around $56. I say it beats diy since you don't have to deal with that horrible carbide dust.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 2, 2012)

gorman said:


> I send mine to al gordon in Alabama. With shipping (flat rate box) I get 20 1100's sharpened like razors for around $56. I say it beats diy since you don't have to deal with that horrible carbide dust.



Yeah, but I dont have to wait for shipping them both ways.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 5, 2012)

*Grinding wheels*

I called 3m today, you can order the diamond wheel from them direct and save about $50 (3m price $123.38). Call the number on the box in the picture and give them the reorder number. Lead time is three weeks because they are made to order.


----------



## imagineero (Jan 6, 2012)

great info, thanks for posting!

Do they do a rougher grit wheel in the same style? Might save some time and last a little longer. I started doing my teeth with a 100grit green wheel and quickly switched to a 60. The 60 was way faster, and I notice no difference in the life/performance of the teeth with the slightly rougher finish. I dont think grinder teeth really need to be that 'sharp' compared with, say chain saw teeth. As long as the angle is right and you have a corner, you're good to go. I would probably try a 40, but I havent seen one available. I usually have to remove about 1/8" or a little less than that with each sharpening, so I get 4 or 5 sharpenings usually. It's quite a bit to have to grind off.

I keep looking at the greenteeth, and the multi tip system. I've run hire machines with greenteeth before and I really liked the quick change 3 face system, but it didnt feel like they got a lot of life and the pockets seemed to really cop a hiding. Have you always run greenteeth or did you have something else before?

Shaun


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 6, 2012)

I am sure they will make you whatever you want for grit on the wheel. Might cost more or less idk. I just bought a stump grinder with greenteeth on it.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 23, 2012)

Gave my setup a good run today. I sharpened 18 greenteeth in about 30 mins. Sure beats paying $65 bucks.


----------

