# Unhappy with Osburn 2200 woodstove



## DTB (Jan 27, 2013)

Hello All,

I bought a new Osburn 2200 woodstove about 4 years ago and had it professionally installed. I have always had an issue with a down draft when trying to fire-up the stove. I usually end up with smoke in the house. It is in my basement and there is a window near it that I usually open up to release pressure and get air flowing. The guy who installed it and myself do not see EYE TO EYE. He came over when we were having problems. He said that the wood needed to be inside the house for 3 days,too damp. It was dry. He said it was user error and I was not starting it right. I have been using stoves all of my life. Lastly, he said the stove was designed poorly. Enough said. There is stainless Simpson pipe running the outside of my house. I believe the problem is that it gets cold. Also, I am on the end of a culdesack down in a hole. Which could also be the problem. The stove only has 3 hour burn times at the most!! This is an issue. I am having an issue now where the coals are not combusting enough. Usually when this happens, it means the pipe needs to be cleaned. I just cleaned the whole sytem in November. The stove has not been heating the house properly with it being very cold lately. It is rated for 2,000 square feet. I have a ranch house that is about 1640 square feet not including the basement. Does anyone have any insight or helpful information. Thanks.


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## blades (Jan 27, 2013)

Cold down draft on basement install very common, window not withstanding, cure by using a hair dryer or heat gun for a bit before lighting off stove. You need to get that flue warmed up some first. If it is not achieving heat it is more than likely that the fuel supply is the culprit, wood can feel dry on out side and still be way to much moisture content internally. So before you go off on rant again get a moisture meter, they can be had for $30 or less. Re-split several pieces of your fuel and use meter to check internal moisture content. To get you going more immediately, Buy some of the compressed wood logs use a couple of those with your current fuel and split you current stuff smaller. You could also scrounge up old pallets and bust those up to mix in they are very dry so again not by them selves but mixed. 

Never ever allow your self to be duped by firewood suppliers that say their wood is seasoned, That is the same as saying the wind doesn't blow in Kansas. If they are selling kiln dried then maybe. 

Wood really doesn't start to dry until split, some types will be ok for use a year after that, others like OAK will take a minimum of 2 likely three years to be less than 20% moisture content internally. Around here there sellers build up big mounds of splits during the summer and sell it in fall, that isn't dry nor even close to being seasoned. and no it doesn't dry cut into big rounds either. 

You might want to apologize to your installer as well , just sayin.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 27, 2013)

Is the flue pipe insulated? Even so I read ranch house = short external flue, possible uninsulated = not enough draft. These newer stoves with a secondary combustion system need a strong draft to burn right. If there is not enough draft you don't get enough air velocity coming out of the air manifold outlet holes and it just burns lazy.


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## sunfish (Jan 27, 2013)

You have a very good stove! But it needs a strong draft and Very Dry wood!


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## DTB (Jan 27, 2013)

blades said:


> Cold down draft on basement install very common, window not withstanding, cure by using a hair dryer or heat gun for a bit before lighting off stove. You need to get that flue warmed up some first. If it is not achieving heat it is more than likely that the fuel supply is the culprit, wood can feel dry on out side and still be way to much moisture content internally. So before you go off on rant again get a moisture meter, they can be had for $30 or less. Re-split several pieces of your fuel and use meter to check internal moisture content. To get you going more immediately, Buy some of the compressed wood logs use a couple of those with your current fuel and split you current stuff smaller. You could also scrounge up old pallets and bust those up to mix in they are very dry so again not by them selves but mixed.
> 
> Never ever allow your self to be duped by firewood suppliers that say their wood is seasoned, That is the same as saying the wind doesn't blow in Kansas. If they are selling kiln dried then maybe.
> 
> ...



I process my own wood. It has been split, stacked and dry for a year or more depending on species.


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## DTB (Jan 27, 2013)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Is the flue pipe insulated? Even so I read ranch house = short external flue, possible uninsulated = not enough draft. These newer stoves with a secondary combustion system need a strong draft to burn right. If there is not enough draft you don't get enough air velocity coming out of the air manifold outlet holes and it just burns lazy.



The pipe is Simpson double wall insulated. The flue is pretty high. I tried putting a piece of black 24' pipe extension on to the current pipe and it did not help


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## Fyrebug (Jan 27, 2013)

I burn the 1800 which is the smaller version of the 2200. We make that brand and the 2200 is our best seller.

Could you please provide the following information?

* Is your chimney 6" inside diameter HT2100?
* If not and you are inside a masonry chimney, do you have a 6" liner installed all the way up the chimney? Is so is it an insulated liner?
* What is the overall lenght of your chimney?
* What is the moisture level of your wood in %?
* Please describe your fire starting procedure, diameter of your logs etc...
* What is the age of your house, insulation level and how air tight. 

You indicate your problem improve when you open a door or window which is an indication your house is under negative pressure.

If you can provide that information, we can be reasonably confident we can pinpoint where the problem is at...

All the best


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## stihly dan (Jan 27, 2013)

A couple more things, if the draft is not good you should be getting longer burns not shorter. AND, if the stove is rated for 2000 sq ft, and in the basement, a 1640 sq ft ranch is really a 3280 sq ft ranch. ( so stove way to small) Is the basement insulated? I would say insulate basement, enclose your chimney with insulated wall, add a section of chimney. Or best move stove to 1 st floor, and add a section of chimney, insulate chimney.


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## Ayatollah (Jan 27, 2013)

I knew you would be hearing from Fyrebug :msp_biggrin:


We have the 2200 also, and although it's attractive as hell, it's prettier than it is a performer. It's very tempermental, and has quite a few quirks. We get smoke in the house about half the time you open the door to reload. That slanted front is the most obvious suspect. Once the door is opened and the smoke starts escaping the door, the heat follows and compounds the escape. I installed a damper recently, but it was mainly due to our two story installation, and my inability to control the draft after the fire was built and hot. The reverse is true when it's cold. The cold air is falling down and gaining momentum when you're trying to start it. Openeing a door...but close to the stove...helps...sometimes. I often use some very light dry paper on the top of our kindling first, and then light the bottom. The unit doesn't perform well with borderline wood. It needs the very best. It's often up to chance, just like making a good salad, when all your ingredients are at peak ripeness, everything comes together and you get an excellent burn.
My advice to you is to experiment with all the advice given, and keep a log of it. And one last thing. This unit performs admirably when you have dry wood, fair draft, and low ash. As the ash builds, the efficiency seems to drop all around. I empty the ash every other day now. We're warmer, but I have to vaccuum more often


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## Fyrebug (Jan 27, 2013)

Well as I said, I am burning the 1800 which is a smaller version than the 2200 and not as performing. I have never had a back draft problem...

The 2200 is Osburn's best seller and If the unit had the issues you mentioned 1) I would know about it 2) We'd stop selling it. As it is our President burned the 2200 for many years and in his opinion is one of our best firebox and best performer.

Finally at their most basic all wood stoves are black square boxes made of metal. They have no means of exhausting gases other than a weak natural physical property call 'draft'. 

If you have a drafting problem you do not have a stove problem but a draft problem. You need to fix the draft problem not the stove. I would be willing to bet any amount of beer you will have identical problems if you were to put any other high-efficiency insert in there. How do I know this? All MFG's have the same problem with users who do not understand drafting. We all go at great length to explain it in our manual, web sites etc...

So repeat after me... I have a drafting problem and want to bring it under control. :msp_confused:

If you guys can answer the questions above we are well on our way to a ten step drafting recovery program..


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## Wazzu (Jan 27, 2013)

DTB said:


> I process my own wood. It has been split, stacked and dry for a year or more depending on species.



One year old wood, if cut green probably is not dry enough.


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## Ayatollah (Jan 27, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> The 2200 is Osburn's best seller and If the unit had the issues you mentioned 1) I would know about it 2) We'd stop selling it. As it is our President burned the 2200 for many years and in his opinion is one of our best firebox and best performer...



And a while back, you indicated you would hook me up with the part number for those washers to fix my door sagging problem. Or is there a recovery program I need to be enrolled in for that too? :msp_biggrin:


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## bigbadbob (Jan 27, 2013)

I have an Osburn. At my cabin and I forget the model but it is fairly big, takes 18 inch wood. About 3 years old.
My setup is very close to yours.
Yes if it has sat a few day its a bear to light. I do have a fresh air inlet ,as its the code. 
Once going it works very and I get 9 or more hours burn time with dry fir, in freezing temperatures.
Heating 1300 sq ft or more. The stove is dampened almost fully, knob might be out 1/4 inch.
My only complaint with the stove is the damper lever( the one top near the back on the left) is different than the manual, I used a soapstone and marked it correct.
BBBl


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## jrider (Jan 27, 2013)

blades said:


> Cold down draft on basement install very common, window not withstanding, cure by using a hair dryer or heat gun for a bit before lighting off stove. You need to get that flue warmed up some first. If it is not achieving heat it is more than likely that the fuel supply is the culprit, wood can feel dry on out side and still be way to much moisture content internally. So before you go off on rant again get a moisture meter, they can be had for $30 or less. Re-split several pieces of your fuel and use meter to check internal moisture content. To get you going more immediately, Buy some of the compressed wood logs use a couple of those with your current fuel and split you current stuff smaller. You could also scrounge up old pallets and bust those up to mix in they are very dry so again not by them selves but mixed.
> 
> Never ever allow your self to be duped by firewood suppliers that say their wood is seasoned, That is the same as saying the wind doesn't blow in Kansas. If they are selling kiln dried then maybe.
> 
> ...



I love how people jump to the conclusion some firewood guy sold him wood that wasn't seasoned. There may be crooks and liars out there who sell wood but there are plenty of guys who are honest dealers.


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## stihly dan (Jan 27, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> Well as I said, I am burning the 1800 which is a smaller version than the 2200 and not as performing. I have never had a back draft problem...
> 
> The 2200 is Osburn's best seller and If the unit had the issues you mentioned 1) I would know about it 2) We'd stop selling it. As it is our President burned the 2200 for many years and in his opinion is one of our best firebox and best performer.
> 
> ...



My old EPA stove had a huge drafting problem. Did everything under the sun to fix it. Nothing worked. Then I hooked up another EPA stove and there where no issues. I do believe certain stoves in certain applications are the problem. May not be in this case or most cases, but it DOES happen.


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## Fyrebug (Jan 27, 2013)

Ayatollah said:


> And a while back, you indicated you would hook me up with the part number for those washers to fix my door sagging problem. Or is there a recovery program I need to be enrolled in for that too? :msp_biggrin:



PM me your info with the name of the dealer you bought it from.


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## Fyrebug (Jan 27, 2013)

stihly dan said:


> My old EPA stove had a huge drafting problem. Did everything under the sun to fix it. Nothing worked. Then I hooked up another EPA stove and there where no issues. I do believe certain stoves in certain applications are the problem. May not be in this case or most cases, but it DOES happen.



Understood, but please realize i've been doing this for a while. I'm not saying what you say is not true but there are too many variables which you did not mentioned and frankly I wouldnt be able to troubleshoot until I went to your place and eyeball the situation. (Beer's on you BTW).

Let just say that 99.9% of the time drafting is caused by something else than the stove...


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## DTB (Jan 27, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> I burn the 1800 which is the smaller version of the 2200. We make that brand and the 2200 is our best seller.
> 
> Could you please provide the following information?
> 
> ...



My chimney is on the outside of my house. It is a double/triple walled Simpson stainless pipe.

It is approximately 17.5 feet tall.

My house was built in 78". 

My basement where the stove is at was refinished and insulated. 

My firewood is one or more years split and dried. It is burnt depending on species and time needed to season properly.

My proceedure is to open the vent all the way to the right. I then used small kinling and splitter scraps to start the fire with paper. I start it in the back like the manual said. The window next to the stove is opened to start it. I keep the door open a qurater of the way to get enough air. This usually still does not work and the house fills up ith smoke even with the window open. (this is on a cold start)

I cleaned the chimney today. It had a lot of chocolate brown dust and little granuals of creosote, but hardly any creosote.

I also have the same problem with my door not aligning right. After awhile it will start to grind and the handle will not turn. I then have to oil it to get it to work.

Once the stove is going, I have to damper it to mid way or the pipe will not heat up. It takes a long time fully open or will only go up to 3 hundred degrees fully open.

All in all, a basic stove like this should not be this finicky to operate. I wish that another brand was purchased. I liked the looks of the stove and the nice view of the fire, that is why I bought it. I wish I could do it all over again. :frown:


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## Fyrebug (Jan 27, 2013)

DTB said:


> My chimney is on the outside of my house. It is a double/triple walled Simpson stainless pipe. *So you have a Triple wall air cooled chimney? with no packed insulation? So tell me, When it's -40 outside, what is the temperature of the chimney on start up? And how long will it take to warm it up and keep it warm? While air cooled chimney are less expensive they are also much more difficult to get up to temp and stay there. Ie. more difficult to get drafting.
> 
> You also did not indicate what is the ID of your chimney. If it's above 6" look no further... It's your problem right there. It should be 6" from the top of the insert all the way to the chimney cap.*
> 
> ...



Guys, I dont know how to say this without being rude.... You have a drafting problem... Please look at my notes above.

It's too easy to look at the stove when in effect it is the chimney that drives draft. The insert is absolutely not finicky. With all due respect you are 100% wrong on this. Upteen thousands of users of that model will prove you wrong. 

Now all together, put your right hand on the Bible and repeat after me... "I have a drafting problem..."


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## DTB (Jan 27, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> Guys, I dont know how to say this without being rude.... You have a drafting problem... Please look at my notes above.
> 
> It's too easy to look at the stove when in effect it is the chimney that drives draft. The insert is absolutely not finicky. With all due respect you are 100% wrong on this. Upteen thousands of users of that model will prove you wrong.
> 
> Now all together, put your right hand on the Bible and repeat after me... "I have a drafting problem..."



This is the 2200 pedestal model that starts with a 6" flue all the way up to the chimney cap. It was leveled by the installers, because I asked them about it and after they installed it. I then checked it. It did not come with leveling bolts. Right now it has so many coals in the stove yet the pipe is on 350. There is no more room to put any wood. It is not combusting properly.


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## laynes69 (Jan 27, 2013)

Two times now, flue temps have been referenced. You need to concentrate on the temps of the stove top and not flue. If that 350 reading is on exterior flue, your around 700 internal which is too high. Once a hot fire is burning, close down the stove further. Your flue temps should drop and your stovetop should rise. It sounds like your using the wrong tool for the job, not everyone can successfully heat an entire home from a stove in the basement. If it's not keeping up, people tend to open them up for more heat. While a little air works, too much and you burn your load quickly, and everything turns to coals. Then, the temp may drop and more wood is added, the result a firebox full of coals. Ideally, you load, get the load charred and turn down the air. Once the coaling stage starts, then more air is added until the coals either burn down or it's time to reload. If you cannot turn down the stove after charring the load, your wood has too much moisture, or your draft is low. With a 17' chimney, any elbows and draft will suffer. Do you have any elbows on the flue?


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## bigbadbob (Jan 27, 2013)

View attachment 276000

Here is my Osburn.
Once it starts to draw, (door ajar for five with paper and kindling)and sounds like a freight train. 
(Some times it starts to smoke so I close the door for a bit and reopen it slowly)
I load it up and let it rip, check my flue temp with a digital meter, when I am happy it gets dampened and everybodys happy and warm.:msp_biggrin:
My basement is now insulated and drywalled.
Forgot to add. When I cleaned my chimney last year and got about 2-4 cups of soot out, no creosote, so my wood is nice and dry.
Stove is running good. 
BBB


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## PEKS (Jan 27, 2013)

Drafting problem all day long..
Heat up that Flue before you spark up..


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## DTB (Jan 27, 2013)

If it were drafting probblems, then why do have to keep filling the stove? 2-3 hr burn time at most.


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## bbxlr8 (Jan 27, 2013)

Hey all, I have to chime in and may not be popular seeing how this thread is going. 

I'm running a 20 yo Osburn 1600 that came with the house in a half finished and insulated basement of 2 story. It uses a 25' masonary chimney that I clean myself. This is my third winter burning and it back drafted BAD first time I ran it (read newbie to stoves). I did this once again last season and once again on a major relight after travel this Nov. That was real fun as the fire alarm auto dialed out after I killed the code and notified the monitoring co. It has to do with draft and how cold it gets. When fully cold it just BLOWS down. An when hot it really S*CKS. 

I would call it an overachiever the more I learned about it as the rating is way below what I am getting out of it. The only thing getting to me is the reload time due to firebox size on this smaller unit - has me eyeing up those new stove threads!


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## Ayatollah (Jan 27, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> PM me your info with the name of the dealer you bought it from.



That dealer is gone now. They used to be called Solar Depot I think, and they had two stores at one time, but now they are both gone


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## Ayatollah (Jan 28, 2013)

Not to pile on the 2200 problems, but last night I saw something that I realized a few years ago, but forgot about. My kid bought a humidifier beccause she's not quite satisfied that the pan of water on the stove is performing. After she plugged it in and it gained steam, the stove was drawing said steam right into it. Perfectly natural of course, but I moved the steam close to the stove and watched as the heated air from the fan that is supposed to be for the house was blown down in front of the door, and immediately sucked in by the air intake again. Don't know how much of it ends up in the firebox again, and then out the chimney, but it's a sure bet that some or alot is. Also, what doesn't end up going up the chimney is going round and round in the circulatory system for hot air. We know some heated air is going to the house obviously, but it seems there is a very wasteful cycling of our already heated air


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## Whitespider (Jan 28, 2013)

DTB said:


> *I have always had an issue with a down draft when trying to fire-up… The stove only has 3 hour burn times at the most!! …coals are not combusting enough. … The stove has not been heating the house properly…
> --------------------------
> All in all, a basic stove like this should not be this finicky to operate.
> --------------------------
> ...



Smoke in the house (down draft) at cold start-up is pretty common with outside chimneys, especially in cold weather and basement installations. Some stove designs are worse about it, like those with baffles and/or primary air entering from the top rather than under the fire burning on a grate (i.e. EPA stoves). If the air came in under the fire it would be heated as it’s pulled up through the grate and fire, causing it to rise faster and warm the flue faster. But, in the case of your EPA stove that burns on a firebrick floor with air coming in over the top… it-is-what-it-is with your chimney setup. That is a “draft problem” that can only be remedied with an inside chimney or pre-heating the flue before fire-up.

As far as the lack of proper heating, short burn times and coal bed build-up, get used to this simple fact… EPA stoves that burn on a firebrick floor and have the primary air coming in from the top are lousy for _primary_ heating in _real cold weather_. It just ain’t possible for air coming in over the top of the fire to make efficient “heating” use of the coal bed once the secondary burn shuts down. Adding more fuel on top of that coal bed (to keep it heating at a high rate) just causes the wood to burn faster (short burn time) and the coal bed to build-up even more (no more room for fuel). They (EPA stoves of that design) are _supplementary_ heaters at best, so keep your furnace running… once the secondary burn shuts down you’ll need to “babysit” the stove, constantly stirring and raking the coals to get them to burn down and keep making even moderate heat, and your furnace will have to pick up the slack for a few hours. If you keep stuffing it full of wood, on top of the coal bed, you’ll end up so many coals it will take days to burn them out. One trick I’ve learned is to just add one or two splits, just enough to keep the secondary going… but even that will cause the box to eventually fill with coals if the cold spell lasts for more than a day or so. And of course, this makes them horrible “overnight” heaters.

I had to learn these lessons the hard way when I built a whole-house furnace using an EPA firebox as a base… Lesson learned! I’ve owned my first, and my last of those miserable things. If you want a room (space) heater where you can sit and watch the fire for the “pretty” effect I’m sure they work fine… but if you’re lookin’ for a _dedicated primary heater_ so you can shut off your furnace, in real cold weather they suck eggs! My build works real good during mild weather (like 30's and 40's), it's "OK" during 20's, can't keep up when temps hit the teens, and near worthless during single digits and lower (when you need it the most).

Good luck.


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## reaperman (Jan 28, 2013)

A suggestion to get your flu temp up faster may not be popular here but I have done this not because I have a draft problem. But rather too lazy to make some fine kindling. I have used kerosene to get a fire going quickly, not a lot, but some will make quick heat. Another thing I use to get my small EPA stove going, in a out-building I have. Is a "weed-burner", on a low setting, hooked to a 20 lb propane tank. Sometime I dont use the EPA stove for days at a time. And they can take a lot of time and playing around to light one from scratch before it gets to operating temps. But the weed burner makes quick heat, that will rise and warm the chimney, plus get the wood burning fast.


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## Ayatollah (Jan 28, 2013)

reaperman said:


> A suggestion to get your flu temp up faster may not be popular here but I have done this not because I have a draft problem. But rather too lazy to make some fine kindling. I have used kerosene to get a fire going quickly, not a lot, but some will make quick heat. Another thing I use to get my small EPA stove going, in a out-building I have. Is a "weed-burner", on a low setting, hooked to a 20 lb propane tank. Sometime I dont use the EPA stove for days at a time. And they can take a lot of time and playing around to light one from scratch before it gets to operating temps. But the weed burner makes quick heat, that will rise and warm the chimney, plus get the wood burning fast.



Kerosene, an enclosed area, and a match...what could go wrong...


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## Whitespider (Jan 28, 2013)

Ayatollah said:


> *Kerosene, an enclosed area, and a match...what could go wrong...*



That's how I start mine... done it that way for years and years...
Shove a wad of dryer lint, piece of shop rag, or whatever between the splits as a sort'a "wick", squirt some fire "accelerant" of some sort on it (kerosene, diesel, lighter fluid, used oil mixed with any of the for-mentioned, etc... don't require much) and toss a match on it... fire in less than five minutes. No messing around, quick and easy... I ain't gonna' play Cub Scout if'n I don't haf'ta!


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## Fyrebug (Jan 29, 2013)

Good grief gentlemen... Let me re-iterate a wood stove is a square black box made of metal with no moving parts that relies on a weak physical force called 'draft' to evacuate the exhaust. It's way too easy to blame the stove while disregarding everything around it.

It's like the old argument... My wood is dry - no its not - yes it is - no its not - yes it is... Eventually a cheap wood moisture meter settles the argument. 

In the case of drafting ( I dont have a drafting problem - yes you do, no I don't etc...) this thread could go on forever. Here's how to settle it. Get a buddy that work at HVAC somewhere to lend you his magnahelic (draft gauge). Take a draft reading cold with the door close, then with the door open. Also take a reading hot a different stage of the fire and report back these readings on this thread.

*Symptoms of a bad draft: *Back draft (smoke in house), fire dies out when closing door, lazy fire, Fire improves when opening a window or door, problem worsen on really cold weather, prior to a storm (low barometric pressure), or windy days.

*How to improve the situation:* If the problem improves when opening a window or door it means you're house is under negative pressure - Basically you're house is under vacuum and wants to balance itself. Guess what? You've given your house a big round hole called a chimney to do just that! To add to the problem, since cold air is heavier than warm air, all this air is rushing down the chimney when you open the stove door. Now... you are starting a fire under these conditions and guess who's gonna lose.

So... make sure that when starting a fire there are no air sucking appliances that run at the same time (washroom fans, clothes dryer, kitchen range hood etc...). Cheapest way to re-pressurize you house is to leave a door or window open prior to start a fire, but since this defeats the purpose of having a wood stove in the first place you may want to invest in a heat/air recovery system in your furnace room. 

In Northern Canada, because of the extreme cold - no chimneys are exposed to the element but are 'chased'. That is enclosed in a framed and insulated box. That way the chimney has a fighting chance. 

The taller the chimney the better the draft. You may want to try an extra 3 to 6 foot. 

Trees and building that are too close to your chimney will affect draft. Make sure you maintain clearances.

Poor drafting will affect performance and coaling.

Hope this helps and please post pictures of your installation - inside and out. We want to help but please help us with more info. 

All the best...


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## Fyrebug (Jan 29, 2013)

DTB said:


> If it were drafting probblems, then why do have to keep filling the stove? 2-3 hr burn time at most.



What do you consider burn time? Big roaring fire? That will last 2-3 hours at most. 

A fire has 4 stages, one of which is coaling - laws of physics - nothing to do with the stove. 

These stoves are not designed to burn on high all the time. You start it, get 'er warm up, load 'er up to the gunwhales, let 'er rip, choke down to your level of comfort and leave it alone until most of the coals are consumed.

If you feel the need to continually add splits to keep it on high fire it probably means you should have gotten a bigger stove or a furnace. It obviously does not provide enough heat for your house.


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## Ayatollah (Jan 29, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> What do you consider burn time? Big roaring fire? That will last 2-3 hours at most.
> 
> A fire has 4 stages, one of which is coaling - laws of physics - nothing to do with the stove.
> 
> ...



I really don't have all that much control over the fire. That intake control at the bottom is very loose, and my control of the air flow is sketchy at best. I can surely cripple the fire during start up, but afterwards, when the fire is going good, I'm reduced to being more of an advisory committee


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## Ayatollah (Feb 8, 2013)

I have found one solution of sorts to the wood burning up too fast problem. As the night gets late, I ensure a good bed of coals lines the bottom, and then add in two woods left in the round that are 6 or 7 inches in diameter, and 18 inches long. Good cured hardwood, which is pecan or eucalyptus seasoned for over a year and a half. The result has been waking up to a hot stove with a good bed of coals or a still burning log in there after 6 or 7 hours. Split wood seems to race through this unit. Likewise, if the rounds I put in are pretty light and not solid, they won't go the distance either.


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## DTB (Feb 9, 2013)

Ayatollah said:


> I have found one solution of sorts to the wood burning up too fast problem. As the night gets late, I ensure a good bed of coals lines the bottom, and then add in two woods left in the round that are 6 or 7 inches in diameter, and 18 inches long. Good cured hardwood, which is pecan or eucalyptus seasoned for over a year and a half. The result has been waking up to a hot stove with a good bed of coals or a still burning log in there after 6 or 7 hours. Split wood seems to race through this unit. Likewise, if the rounds I put in are pretty light and not solid, they won't go the distance either.



I have been burning split White Oak and it has been going through it like crazy, as well as Pin Oak and Beech I have been burning.


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## Ayatollah (Feb 10, 2013)

DTB said:


> I have been burning split White Oak and it has been going through it like crazy, as well as Pin Oak and Beech I have been burning.



This insert is not the most efficient heat extractor, that's for sure. When it works, it works good, but getting it there is complicated. I'll admit I was enamoured by its' looks. Never did any research on it.


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## Fyrebug (Feb 10, 2013)

Research would have shown this is a best seller and most users are happy. 97% of the last 42 homeowners who have registered their warranty are satisfied with this product

You are very quick to blame the appliance and not posting follow up of useful recommendations from other users and myself.

Which leads me to believe you would be just as unhappy with any other stove of the same size.

May I recommend you sell your unit and may be look at something bigger, or furnace or other means of heating your house?

Your expectations of what a wood stove of that size could accomplish is may be what stands in the way...


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## Ayatollah (Feb 10, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> Research would have shown this is a best seller and most users are happy. 97% of the last 42 homeowners who have registered their warranty are satisfied with this product
> 
> You are very quick to blame the appliance and not posting follow up of useful recommendations from other users and myself.
> 
> ...



Fyrebug,

I have tried the remedies you suggested. We have good draft. Not enough draft is not the problem. Size is not the problem either. My sister has a smaller insert, that burns slower, and puts out more heat. hers also reacts quite noticably to the draft control.. Here's the thing though. At no time can I get the heat output from this unit that others put out under similar conditions. Likewise, I cannot obtain high heat through the fan output. It's just ok. Most of my heat goes up the stack. I burn good wood. I installed a damper, and that helped a bit. I believe this unit fails a little where the heat is harnessed through the fan and its' channeling. I also addressed the issue of it blowing down on the intake, thereby recycling the already heated air. What the heck were they thinking there?


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