# The Best Grass on AS



## Arbonaut

Turfgrass management is the epitome of gardening. Bonsai Trees and Fruit production are up there, but if you can put up a good stand of sod, you have arrived.

Mine is coming in about 60% of what it will do in three weeks. Not bad for a hack, though.


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## Arbonaut

Del_ said:


> Sod is a waste of time!



In denial. Some of us intentionally reproduce. Gives 'em a place to play. Gives the Chicago Bears a place, too. I call me yard, "Soldier Field."


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## Arbonaut

POSITIVE BENEFITS OF TURFGRASS
James B. Beard
Texas A and M University, College Station, TX

Statesman Thomas Jefferson wrote that "communities should be planned with an eye to the effect
made upon the human spirit by being continually surrounded by a maximum of beauty." A turfgrass
has numerous, important functional purposes, as well as being attractive. These important dimensions
that contribute to our quality-of-life are too often overlooked.
TURFGRASS FUNCTIONAL BENEFITS
Soil erosion control and dust stabilization - vital soil resource protection.
1.
Turfgrasses serve as an inexpensive, durable ground cover as well as in protecting our valuable,
non-renewable soil resources. Perennial turfgrasses offer one of the most cost efficient methods
to control wind and water erosion of soil, which is very important in eliminating dust and mud
problems around homes, factories, schools and businesses.
Reduces runoff from precipitation and contributes to flood control.
2.
The dense plant canopy of mowed turfgrasses is very effective in the entrapment of water and
airborne particulate materials, as well as in absorbing gaseous pollutants. The high degree of
water runoff that occurs from impervious surfaces in urban areas carries many pollutants in the
runoff. Turfgrasses offer one of the best known systems for catchment of the runoff water plus
the pollutants, especially if proper landscape designs are used.
Enhances ground water recharge.
3.
One of the key mechanisms by which turfgrasses control soil erosion is through a superior
capability to essentially absorb or trap and hold runoff water. A healthy turfed lawn absorbs
rainfall six times more effectively than a wheat field, and four times better than a hay field; being
exceeded in this important function only by a virgin forest. This attribute is certainly important
in enhancing ground water recharge.

ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES
4. Functions in entrapment and biodegradation of organic chemicals; plus conversion of carbon
dioxide emissions.
The extensive fibrous root system of turfgrasses contributes substantially to soil improvement
through organic matter additions derived from atmospheric carbon dioxide via photosynthesis.
In this process, a diverse large population of soil micro-flora and -fauna are supported. These
same organisms offer one of the most active biological systems for the degradation of trapped
organic chemicals and pesticides. Thus, this turf-ecosystem is important in the protection of
ground water quality.
5. Enhances heat dissipation - temperature moderation.
The overall temperature of urban areas may be as much as 10-12°F warmer than nearby rural
areas. Turfgrasses, through the cooling process of evapotranspiration, serve an important
function in dissipating the high levels of heat generated in urban areas. For example, a football
field has the cooling capacity of a 70 ton air conditioner. The cooling effect of irrigated turfs and
landscapes can result in energy savings via reducing the energy input and allied costs required
for the mechanical cooling of interiors of adjacent homes and buildings.
6. Reduces noise abatement, glare reduction, and visual pollution problems.
The rough surface characteristics of turfgrass function in noise abatement as well as in multi-
directional light reflection that reduces glare. A grass area of 70 feet distance on a roadside can
abate obtrusive vehicle noises by 40%. Thus, turfs lower the hardness of unwanted noise and
lessen the visual stress of glare.
7. Decreases noxious pests and allergy-related pollen.
Regularly mowed residential lawns reduce problems of nuisance pests such as snakes, rodents,
mosquitoes, and chiggers; plus allergy-related pollens produced by many weedy species. As small
animals seek haven in taller grass at locations more distant from the house, they also are less
likely to invade the house.
8. Provides safety in vehicle operation/equipment longevity.
Roadside turfgrasses are important in highway safety, as well as erosion control, in that they
function as a stabilized zone for emergency stoppage of vehicles. Turfgrasses also are utilized for
soil and dust stabilization around airfield runways in order to prolong the operating life of
engines, while smaller airstrips utilize turfgrasses as the runway surface itself.
Lowers the fire hazard and provides security for vital installations.
9. The spacing provided by green lawns serves as a firebreak and as a high visibility zone that
discourages unwanted intruders.
10. Contributes substantially to the national economy.
From a monetary standpoint, the turfgrass industry contributes in excess of $30 billion annually
to the United States' economy. Quality turfs also are of economic importance in that they
contribute to increased property values and commercial appeal.


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## Mike Cantolina

I like dandelions and clover for the honeybees.


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## stihl023/5

I used to go to great strides to have a nice looking lawn. But since my local braintrust insists on jumping my taxes every year I could care less what it looks like.:censored:


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## Arbonaut

Thanks for the replies Mike, 023 and Del_. Those are interesting reasons to have other things besides turf in the yard.


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## Arbonaut

Here is a little info on one of the two Kentucky Bluegrass cultivars I use in my lawn.

*Rugby II Kentucky Bluegrass originated from a plant selection from a 1930’s cemetery in Washington State. The original plant had spread to a diameter of 20-30 feet across, growing in a low maintenance cemetery in an arid environment. When found, the spot was dark green, shiny and dense, in spite of growing between a huge shade tree and a well traveled driveway. Rugby II scored among the top 14 entries in a recent NTEP Kentucky bluegrass trial under medium-high maintenance. It ranked in the top 10 in Indiana, Illinois, Washington state, Missouri, Rhode Island and Alberta, Canada.*

Once it was discovered, Rugby was cloned in a lab. You read it right, 20-30 feet across the ground one plant. Now KGB goes dormant in the dry hot summers we get here, but the dang stuff is awesome for a cool season grass type selection and it is quite drought tolerant. Bluegrass looks cool in the fall when the rains come back.


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## Arbonaut

Just Because...





There is a Robin in the background of this one. Spring Time.





Trying to get some high resolution shots, I'll be stressing the importance of a sharp blade soon. You can read it in your cut.


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## wampum

My horses and beef love nice grass,I hate the stuff in my yard,in the pasture its great.I always cut it as low as I can and the browner the better. The only moisture it gets besides rain is an occasional leak I or the dog puts on it.The only fertilizer I use is old gasoline and motor oil,and the crap still grows. I actually hate to cut grass,it is not soothing or a pleasant task to me,others say they love to cut grass.I do my best to kill it so that I can go longer between cuts.I am not putting anyone down that likes grass,I just hate to waste the time on cutting it.I do not rake leaves,leaves serve a good purpose they kill grass.I like leaves.

I often thought how nice it would have been to put down astro turf.I cut the grass yesterday for the first time this year.All I could think of is I only have about 25 more times to do this,this year.Then comes my friends the leaves.


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## Arbonaut

wampum said:


> My horses and beef love nice grass,I hate the stuff in my yard,in the pasture its great.I always cut it as low as I can and the browner the better. The only moisture it gets besides rain is an occasional leak I or the dog puts on it.The only fertilizer I use is old gasoline and motor oil,and the crap still grows. I actually hate to cut grass,it is not soothing or a pleasant task to me,others say they love to cut grass.I do my best to kill it so that I can go longer between cuts.I am not putting anyone down that likes grass,I just hate to waste the time on cutting it.I do not rake leaves,leaves serve a good purpose they kill grass.I like leaves.
> 
> I often thought how nice it would have been to put down astro turf.I cut the grass yesterday for the first time this year.All I could think of is I only have about 25 more times to do this,this year.Then comes my friends the leaves.



That's fine, Dave. You finally killed my indomitable spirit. I'm done trying to encourage anyone to try to do some thing well. I was too optimistic. Now you done drove me in the dirt. I'm done.


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## wampum

Arbonaut said:


> That's fine, Dave. You finally killed my indomitable spirit. I'm done trying to encourage anyone to try to do some thing well. I was too optimistic. Now you done drove me in the dirt. I'm done.



It is true I hate to cut grass,it takes up time I could be hunting mushrooms or just about anything else.But don't take it too bad,I really do not dump used gas and motor oil on it,that was just a joke.But I do like leaves.


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## Genius.

I don't have much grass in my yard, its mostly weeds. I don't fertilize, water ect. If I do that means I'd have to mow it..... I hate mowing

I'd rather spend my few hours each evening home with my kids and tending to the cows and chickens in my barn and my garden.


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## SawTroll

The "best" grass must be the grass that DSS finds at Greenland! :msp_smile:


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## stihl023/5

This is DSS's yard.View attachment 292045


Now that is a work of art.


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## forestryworks

Non-native lawns are the epitome of overwatering, overfertilizing, and European-influenced unsustainability that is practiced out of ignorance and fear of Nature and her native plant communities. I've never understood why one wants to toil behind a push mower or rumble along on a riding mower for a few hours a week, every week, all summer long just to have a whole lot of... nothing. Although, toxic green carpet might describe it best. And turfgrass doesn't hold a candle in catching stormwater runoff, nor does it provide wildlife habitat, if any. They're also full of invasive species that don't belong in North America, although some may have become naturalized in some northeastern areas.

*"U.S. lawn maintenance annually consumes about 800 million gallons of gasoline, $5.2 billion of fossil-fuel derived fertilizers, and $700 million in pesticides. Up to two thirds of the drinking water consumed in municipalities goes to watering lawns." The American lawn is the epitome of unsustainability, "covering an estimated 32 million acres of the United States, making it the largest irrigated crop in the country."*
Sources: Lawn of Native Grasses Beats Traditional Lawn For Lushness, Weed Resistance, Researchers Say | News
A Brief History of Lawn

I, for one, wouldn't be caught dead citing any source from Texas a&m  especially when it says turfgrass is inexpensive :monkey:

There's better uses for spaces that are currently covered in lawns. Native grasses are one of them.

But, _if_ I was into the whole green lawn mentality that is an unnatural American obsession thing, I'd say that's a good looker.


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## Arbonaut

That was almost good enough to quote, FW. Which part of Europe was Kentucky Bluegrass from? Need to get me some more of that.


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## Arbonaut

A part of the American Dream is owning and maintaining property. If your goal is to kill the grass in your own lawn, and to let the leaves from your trees blow around instead of making compost, like Wampum stated he does, you can. If you want a prairie, go ahead. I prefer the slick sanitary approach. I can back up the benefits of Turfgrass no problem. I can provide links, resources and experience. The first thing you will notice when you reach the helm of any craft is that it brings out the worst in people who are opposed to what you value. Beautify your lawn, and someone will come out of the woodwork with either an agenda to outright destroy your project, or to at least discredit you and your motives. Nothing new there. I've been honing the Turfgrass cultivation since 1976 and have not lost any momentum in the wake of resistance to the program. It just keeps gettin' greener and more proliferous.

I value all yun's opinions and your right to voice them. However, I'm more inclined to discuss ways to enhance the turf with like-minded folk. There are also guys that can nail it down better than me. That would be interesting to find occasionally. If ya got a nice yard, please post up some pics. If you got a yard like Forestry Works, Wampum or Del_ let's have a look.


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## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Non-native lawns are the epitome of overwatering, overfertilizing, and European-influenced unsustainability that is practiced out of ignorance and fear of Nature and her native plant communities. I've never understood why one wants to toil behind a push mower or rumble along on a riding mower for a few hours a week, every week, all summer long just to have a whole lot of... nothing. Although, toxic green carpet might describe it best. And turfgrass doesn't hold a candle in catching stormwater runoff, nor does it provide wildlife habitat, if any. They're also full of invasive species that don't belong in North America, although some may have become naturalized in some northeastern areas.
> 
> *"U.S. lawn maintenance annually consumes about 800 million gallons of gasoline, $5.2 billion of fossil-fuel derived fertilizers, and $700 million in pesticides. Up to two thirds of the drinking water consumed in municipalities goes to watering lawns." The American lawn is the epitome of unsustainability, "covering an estimated 32 million acres of the United States, making it the largest irrigated crop in the country."*
> Sources: Lawn of Native Grasses Beats Traditional Lawn For Lushness, Weed Resistance, Researchers Say | News
> A Brief History of Lawn
> 
> I, for one, wouldn't be caught dead citing any source from Texas a&m  especially when it says turfgrass is inexpensive :monkey:
> 
> There's better uses for spaces that are currently covered in lawns. Native grasses are one of them.



Well said.


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## Arbonaut

forestryworks said:


> And turfgrass doesn't hold a candle in catching stormwater runoff, nor does it provide wildlife habitat, if any. ."[/B]





Gologit said:


> Well said.



You are right. What Forestry Works stated was well said. It was also hastily concieved, and partially false. I can attack it point by point, Bob. I think you know that. Yun's can go "hold a candle in catching stormwater runoff". It would go out. I'm not here to be combative. And it wouldn't be appropriate for an innocuous thread promoting green lawns to end up in the political forum, would it? If you want to stop an even larger industry, attack cosmetics.


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## forestryworks

Arbonaut said:


> You are right. What Forestry Works stated was well said. It was also hastily concieved, and partially false. I can attack it point by point, Bob. I think you know that. Yun's can go "hold a candle in catching stormwater runoff". It would go out. I'm not here to be combative. And it wouldn't be appropriate for an innocuous thread promoting green lawns to end up in the political forum, would it? If you want to stop an even larger industry, attack cosmetics.



You're not here to be combative but my post is "hastily conceived and partially false?"  That's almost good enough to quote all of it!

I'm not here to stop any industry. Everyone has a right to participate in asinine and mundane concepts such as obsessive lawn maintenance. It's a lot easier to work with Nature than against. 

But whatever, basic ecology is too much for some to handle.


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## Arbonaut

forestryworks said:


> You're not here to be combative but my post is "hastily conceived and partially false?"  That's almost good enough to quote all of it!
> 
> I'm not here to stop any industry. Everyone has a right to participate in asinine and mundane concepts such as obsessive lawn maintenance. It's a lot easier to work with Nature than against.
> 
> But whatever, basic ecology is too much for some to handle.



I wouldn't bother obsessing over something as easy as having a lawn that is clean. I sharpen tools anyhow regularly. And if you wasn't angry and militant, you'd find that IPM and pathogen resistant cultivars/dwarf plants is the name of the game in turfgrass. If you will have an open mind, I will. We can be friends.


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## wampum

stihl023/5 said:


> This is DSS's yard.View attachment 292045
> 
> 
> Now that is a work of art.



Thats a mighty fine splitfire splitter.


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## forestryworks

Arbonaut said:


> I wouldn't bother obsessing over something as easy as having a lawn that is clean. I sharpen tools anyhow regularly. And if you wasn't angry and militant, you'd find that IPM and pathogen resistant cultivars/dwarf plants is the name of the game in turfgrass. If you will have an open mind, I will. We can be friends.



But you are obsessing over your lawn. Keeping it green and healthy with all those inputs is an obsession. And all those inputs don't produce shade, food, or clean water. And you throw in your GMOs and cute little cultivars which do not even remotely resemble local ecotypes. Yep, you definitely have an obsession.
I'm not militant or angry, I couldn't be bothered to get mad at such silly wastefulness. But thanks for all the laughs!

And if you had native plants, you wouldn't need IPM and fancy cultivars and GMOs. 

But I give up. I've got more Kentucky Bluegrass to burn and kill today before we replant with 185 native plant species per acre. Can a lawn produce such biodiversity? Never ever.


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## Arbonaut

forestryworks said:


> But you are obsessing over your lawn. Keeping it green and healthy with all those inputs is an obsession. And all those inputs don't produce shade, food, or clean water. And you throw in your GMOs and cute little cultivars which do not even remotely resemble local ecotypes. Yep, you definitely have an obsession.
> I'm not militant or angry, I couldn't be bothered to get mad at such silly wastefulness. But thanks for all the laughs!
> 
> And if you had native plants, you wouldn't need IPM and fancy cultivars and GMOs.
> 
> But I give up. I've got more Kentucky Bluegrass to burn and kill today before we replant with 185 native plant species per acre. Can a lawn produce such biodiversity? Never ever.



OK goodbye.


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## Arbonaut

Speaking of biodiversity, here is another European transplant. She loves the grass. After dark we can fertilize your yard.


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## Gologit

Arbonaut said:


> You are right. What Forestry Works stated was well said. It was also hastily concieved, and partially false. I can attack it point by point, Bob. I think you know that. Yun's can go "hold a candle in catching stormwater runoff". It would go out. I'm not here to be combative. And it wouldn't be appropriate for an innocuous thread promoting green lawns to end up in the political forum, would it? If you want to stop an even larger industry, attack cosmetics.



I think I'd be careful about attacking Forestryworks' views on lawns and their uselessness. He spent a lot of time in school studying such things and he has an open mind about opposing views. If your ideas had merit I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it.  He's presented just one of many studies showing that lawns are wasteful and don't really do the environment any great amount of good. He knows about this stuff and makes his living with his knowledge. What do _you_ know, other than the information you've gathered from questionable sources that validates your choices?

Instead of using that ground to grow something that's merely eye candy and a booster for your ego why not plant it to veggies and give the veggies away to people who can use them? Do something _useful_ in other words.


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## Arbonaut

Mowing is a destructive practice. Keep the blade extremely sharp and balanced for a clean cut. Minimize the wound.




In high traffic areas like this, change up the mowing direction often. It is a good rule of thumb overall. And avoid sharp turns. Zero Turn is the worst thing on turf besides a dull blade.








If you use some chemical broadleaf control, don't forget it will damage/kill shrubs. I prefer mechanical control of weeds and pests. Dang, more input?

Hahahaha. Good times. Don't take life too seriously. And don't be a environmental whacko. Keep your place like a park and make the little lady happy. She will love you long time.


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## Arbonaut

Gologit said:


> I think I'd be careful about attacking Forestryworks' views on lawns and their uselessness. He spent a lot of time in school studying such things and he has an open mind about opposing views. If your ideas had merit I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it. He's presented just one of many studies showing that lawns are wasteful and don't really do the environment any great amount of good. He knows about this stuff and makes his living with his knowledge. What do _you_ know, other than the information you've gathered from questionable sources that validates your choices?
> 
> Instead of using that ground to grow something that's merely eye candy and a booster for your ego why not plant it to veggies and give the veggies away to people who can use them? Do something _useful_ in other words.



I grow a two acre garden, Bob. Tomatoes are exotic from the Andes mountains. It don't stop us though. I appreciate FW's contribution and education. I'd like to know what he is burning off the Kentucky Bluegrass with, but he left.


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## Arbonaut

[video=youtube;ybLAzqH9vNw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybLAzqH9vNw[/video]


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## stihl023/5

View attachment 292111
View attachment 292112


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## Arbonaut

Perennial Ryegrass is a species you may not have thought was used in turfgrass applications. But that's just what it is. Don't confuse with Annual Ryegrass which will get you out of a pinch, but isn't a desireable or hardy turf type. Perennial RG is actually one of the finer types if you want a manicured or "estate" lawn. I get one from a seed supplier in Iowa called, "Pleasure Supreme," from Ampac Seed. The stuff is good. Here is some characteristic as noted in trials:

1. Excellent Overall Turf Quality *****

2. Dark Green Genetic Color ***** (Want to get a desirable color and fertilize less? *DING* here it is.)

3. Slower Growing ***** Mow it less often? Aha. Use your head.

4. Superior Spring Greenup **** Not five star, but that's why we avoid monoculture. (More Later on genetic diversification.)

5. Dense, upright growth *****

6. Overall Disease Resistance *****

7. Excellent Traffic Tolerance ***** Can be hard to find in a PRG but this stuff is wirey.

"PLEASURE SUPREME loves the traffic and its top rating in the latest NTEP
makes it an excellent choice for all turf uses. Take PLEASURE SUPREME
“where the action is”. PLEASURE SUPREME ranked #1 in the Traffic Stress
trials at Mead, NE (Wow, good in Nebraska? Hahaha. Didn't know they had sod or traffic there.) ...and demonstrates superb density in all seasons and in all
climate zones. PLEASURE SUPREME is an upright, vigorous, slower growing perennial ryegrass, with excellent overall disease resistance."

Let Arbonaut be your Guinea Pig. We won't lead you astray. lol

I make my own mix with another type of KBG than the one previously mentioned. The result is like porch carpet, if I was cruel enough to mow it that low. More later.

Tune in and subscribe to this post. We are just gettin' warmed up.


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## Arbonaut

OK, one more for the road. Let's get into the other Kentucky Bluegrass that I use. When you see, "KBG'" that's what we mean. Not, "KGB," which would mean the Russian secret service would be paying you a visit. Not the case, it's only your lawn.

"Wild Horse," is the other cultivar. I get it also from Iowa. I discovered this stuff in a three way Fescue blend from Earth Carpet called, "Tuff Stuff." It was in there as a 10% part of the blend. The greatest thing about Wild Horse is it is the fastest germinating stuff you will find when the nights are getting down to 55 Degrees F. It will germinate 90% in ten days. Waiting for grass seed to sprout is like waiting for old people to chew carrots. So that's a plus. Bluegrass seed is very small. That gives it an advantage where it is hard to get soil contact.

Here is some Wild Horse characteristic. I use him in a 1:1 mix with Pleasure Supreme Ryegrass.

Rapid germination

Medium leaf texture

Excellent disease resistance

Aggressive and vigorous

Rich color with low cuts

High tiller density


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## Gologit

Plugging non sponsors?


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## Arbonaut

No, I won't mention the supplier.


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## Arbonaut

Nor links. Just helping the guys with their turf.


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## Arbonaut

*Next up: Turf Type Tall Fescue*


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## Arbonaut

By the way, in an earlier post in this thread, I quoted Dr. James B. Beard's work defining some of the limitless positive attributes of turfgrass. A couple readers here responded that my sources were not credible, or that they were, "questionable," at best. Dr. Beard is the forefather of modern American turf and especially Athletic and Golf turf which surpasses the standard requirements for most the best home lawns. If my need to validate my own use for turfgrass went beyond me and my kids playing catch and my girls practicing for cheerleading and sports, I would quote Dr. Beard without hesitation. You may stake the validity of claims that turfgrass is beneficial on that cushy feeling it gives the soles of bare feet.

Here is but a brief recap of some of Dr. Beard's major work

Beard’s classic Turfgrass: Science and Culture, published in 1973 and still in print, continues as the only true treatise ever written regarding turfgrass science. Much of the book was written within the walls of the MSU (Michigan State) Main Library. His Turf Management for Golf Courses, first released in 1982 and revised in 2002, remains the best-selling reference work in the field. Beard also recently published Beard’s Turfgrass Encyclopedia for Golf Courses – Grounds – Lawns – Sports Fields with the Michigan State University Press.

Dr. Beard served at Michigan State University from 1961–1975, and at Texas A&M University from 1975–1992. After his retirement from Texas A&M, he became President and Chief Scientist of the International Sports Turf Institute.

(If ya wanna try to get a rise out of me, call me a counterfeit.)


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## Arbonaut

[video=youtube;svYQP-L-Pic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svYQP-L-Pic&feature=youtu.be[/video]​


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## Genius.

Personally I could care less about my yard. When I mow, I mow weeds. I really aught to consider goats.....

On another note, there is something that is kinda neat about that perfectly manicured yard. It does take talent. My Father in law is one of those who spends hours each week watching over his yard.
I know when I go to the inlaws house, it feels cooler on those hot summer days when you are outside on the green grass vs my house where everything is brown.

Cudos to you though Arbonaut for still having a garden. 
I see all these citiots spending all their energy tending to their yard, if only they would take a part of their yard and make a garden out of it....


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## Genius.

Look at that sexy yard


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## rmcphearson

That's a great looking soldier's field Arbonaut! 

I've been working on creating a landscaped "oasis" in my back yard, the centerpiece of which is the lawn. I've found that it draws me outdoors and I have enjoyed spending much more time tending to the vegetables. 

I'll try to get some photos up soon. 


Roland


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## Arbonaut

Genius. said:


> Personally I could care less about my yard. When I mow, I mow weeds. I really aught to consider goats.....
> 
> On another note, there is something that is kinda neat about that perfectly manicured yard. It does take talent. My Father in law is one of those who spends hours each week watching over his yard.
> I know when I go to the inlaws house, it feels cooler on those hot summer days when you are outside on the green grass vs my house where everything is brown.
> 
> Cudos to you though Arbonaut for still having a garden.
> I see all these citiots spending all their energy tending to their yard, if only they would take a part of their yard and make a garden out of it....



Thanks, Ross. I was just goofin' around when I made the title for this thread. My yard is a long way from manicured. There is guys who manage turf far better than me. I have to admit some times I just like to terrorize Bob. Man genius, I'd trade you every cubic inch of sod down here to get to live on a farm as good as yours for one summer. When we traded back, though in the fall, she'd be green. BTW, I was thinking about you when I was walking my dog this morning. I might go revive the Marathon Thread to keep you honest.



rmcphearson said:


> That's a great looking soldier's field Arbonaut!
> 
> I've been working on creating a landscaped "oasis" in my back yard, the centerpiece of which is the lawn. I've found that it draws me outdoors and I have enjoyed spending much more time tending to the vegetables.
> 
> I'll try to get some photos up soon.
> 
> 
> Roland


 
Thanks Roland. I call it Soldier Field to terrorize my cousin. He's a Viking fan. Didn't they go to Astroturf? Alot of the whacko's out left are putting it in their yards. It is considered environmentally friendly to them, cause you can hire illegals to put it in, don't have to mow or water it and you can _recycle_ the stuff and get new synthetic turf! Hahaha. Let's see some pic of that oasis, Man. Hey better yet, make a vid with some Classic Celtic Music in it. In the second vid, the music is, an adaptation of "Greensleeves," from Richard Jones circa 1580. Good one, huh?


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## Sagetown

Genius. said:


> Personally I could care less about my yard. When I mow, I mow weeds. I really aught to consider goats.....
> 
> On another note, there is something that is kinda neat about that perfectly manicured yard. It does take talent. My Father in law is one of those who spends hours each week watching over his yard.
> I know when I go to the inlaws house, it feels cooler on those hot summer days when you are outside on the green grass vs my house where everything is brown.
> 
> Cudos to you though Arbonaut for still having a garden.
> I see all these citiots spending all their energy tending to their yard, if only they would take a part of their yard and make a garden out of it....



Goats are for brush. Sheep are a waste of time, but one horse, and you won't have any grass at all.


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## Sagetown

Arbonaut said:


> Speaking of biodiversity, here is another European transplant. She loves the grass. After dark we can fertilize your yard.



Now you're talkin'. I like those big guard dogs.


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## greendohn

*I like a nice yard,,,*

I've been combating weeds in my yard and trying to establish a nice lawn full of bluegrass and rye. I've torn sidewalks out and put 96 foot of foundation under the house over the past several years which has been hard on my lawn. I hauled 50 some odd tons of topsoil in a few years ago to compensate for the sinking septic field and to replace the sidewalks, grass is much more better than sidewalks. 

With my old house being something of a "dump" in appearance from the outside, I figure a nice lawn is something to strive for. I love mowing grass, I find it relaxing. The two Norwegian Spruce I planted have grown full and tall in just a couple years and my Hostas plants provide a nice thick border in several places around here. I miss the big ancient hard maple trees I had removed. The trees had become a hazard. Can't decide what trees to plant,,thinking about some fruit producing trees. The wife cans apples and pears every fall.

We have a nice garden every year which my wife puts up/cans and we share quite a bit of it with friends and neighbors..

The music in your videos was very fitting, "ArborNUT",,almost put me to bed!! LOL.


----------



## Arbonaut

Sagetown said:


> Now you're talkin'. I like those big guard dogs.



Right on, Sagetown. Hahaha. Heh, for the record, one of the best Tall Fescue types for a lawn blend is, "Tulsa Time," how about that? You hit it on the head about them dog. I like the working appearance. My girl's bloodline could make show quality, but she got too many busted teeth, a purple tongue and sniffs the other dog's butts. (Just like Dad.)


​



greendohn said:


> I've been combating weeds in my yard and trying to establish a nice lawn full of bluegrass and rye. I've torn sidewalks out and put 96 foot of foundation under the house over the past several years which has been hard on my lawn. I hauled 50 some odd tons of topsoil in a few years ago to compensate for the sinking septic field and to replace the sidewalks, grass is much more better than sidewalks.
> 
> With my old house being something of a "dump" in appearance from the outside, I figure a nice lawn is something to strive for. I love mowing grass, I find it relaxing. The two Norwegian Spruce I planted have grown full and tall in just a couple years and my Hostas plants provide a nice thick border in several places around here. I miss the big ancient hard maple trees I had removed. The trees had become a hazard. Can't decide what trees to plant,,thinking about some fruit producing trees. The wife cans apples and pears every fall.
> 
> We have a nice garden every year which my wife puts up/cans and we share quite a bit of it with friends and neighbors..
> 
> The music in your videos was very fitting, "ArborNUT",,almost put me to bed!! LOL.



Hey, Greendohn, you are coming at it from the same angle as the Arbonut. That's just how it starts. I got a background in concrete, though. I put in all my sidewalks. The topsoil for my lawn project came from digging out many cubic yards from under the house doing foundation work. Did you know you can put seven bricks in a bucket? LOL Come over and bring beer. I'm past due to go live in my shop for a few months.


----------



## Sagetown

I used to raise them for work. These lil eight week old guys were born in the sheep stalls, and the old gent here couldn't make up his mind, after pulling them from the litter, and his wife wouldn't let him take both.


----------



## greendohn

I better stay here and raise a tall frostie to yee in salute, Arbornut, Illynoise wouldn't like what I pack in my pocket,LOL.
The 75 yards or so of sidewalk I removed in one stretch belonged to to the town!! It bordered the street, I've also removed a smaller section on the other side belonging to the community,,and a couple random sidewalks around the house as well as a 12'x28' stone patio. The "towns" sidewalks were a patchwork of busted concrete which were proving to be hard on my lil' Toro mower and harbored nothing but weeds. My response was priceless when one of the towns board members ask me what I was doing,," Home improvement and preventive maintenance on my mower"
She replied "It's town property", Me,"For 10 years or more I've paid property taxes and totaled 2 mowers on this broken sidewalk,,I'm saving ya' money on the demo work when you finally spend my tax dollars fixing your sidewalks!" They pretty much leave alone around here. Just picked up 6 pounds of bluegrass seed yesterday, I'm gonna need it after spraying the whole yard with 24d last Monday!!


----------



## tbow388

*Great Lawn*

Arbonaut

That is one heck of a nice lawn. Looks like you have put a lot of work into it and it shows, good job.

Here is my back yard. 75% weeds and 25% grass.






It isn't much but is looking better than it has in 10 years. I don't fertilize or anything. Never have to water. This year I actually tilled up some places and reseeded it. 

Used to be a bunch of dirt spaces from baseball practice with the son. A few burms from the motorcycle and a big jump.

I used to HATE mowing the lawn. I would complain every time I had to UNTIL, I had to watch my wife mow and weedeat all summer long because I broke my ankle and had 2 plates and 13 screws put in it. Now It might not be my most favorite thing to do but I enjoy the ability to do so and love to be outside.


----------



## farmer steve

tbow388 said:


> Arbonaut
> 
> That is one heck of a nice lawn. Looks like you have put a lot of work into it and it shows, good job.
> 
> Here is my back yard. 75% weeds and 25% grass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't much but is looking better than it has in 10 years. I don't fertilize or anything. Never have to water. This year I actually tilled up some places and reseeded it.
> 
> Used to be a bunch of dirt spaces from baseball practice with the son. A few burms from the motorcycle and a big jump.
> 
> I used to HATE mowing the lawn. I would complain every time I had to UNTIL, I had to watch my wife mow and weedeat all summer long because I broke my ankle and had 2 plates and 13 screws put in it. Now It might not be my most favorite thing to do but I enjoy the ability to do so and love to be outside.



looks like a fairway at the hillbilly golfcourse:msp_biggrin: actually looks a lot like mine.


----------



## greendohn

I wonder if'n I need an outhouse in my garden,,T-bow,,yers looks pretty good sittin' back there!


----------



## tbow388

greendohn said:


> I wonder if'n I need an outhouse in my garden,,T-bow,,yers looks pretty good sittin' back there!



My son hits the golf balls and I try and shoot um with the shotgun!!!!

I still have to finish the door for the garden outhouse. Don't want all of my crap to get wet!!!


----------



## Genius.

tbow388 said:


> Arbonaut
> 
> That is one heck of a nice lawn. Looks like you have put a lot of work into it and it shows, good job.
> 
> Here is my back yard. 75% weeds and 25% grass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't much but is looking better than it has in 10 years. I don't fertilize or anything. Never have to water. This year I actually tilled up some places and reseeded it.
> 
> Used to be a bunch of dirt spaces from baseball practice with the son. A few burms from the motorcycle and a big jump.
> 
> I used to HATE mowing the lawn. I would complain every time I had to UNTIL, I had to watch my wife mow and weedeat all summer long because I broke my ankle and had 2 plates and 13 screws put in it. Now It might not be my most favorite thing to do but I enjoy the ability to do so and love to be outside.



What???

A nice long secluded line like that and no huge pile of dirt or burm at the end for a shooting range?


----------



## Arbonaut

[video=youtube;bqlKxqt9Dpg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqlKxqt9Dpg[/video]


----------



## stihl023/5

Glyphosate works well too.


----------



## farmer steve

stihl023/5 said:


> Glyphosate works well too.



And 2,4 D:msp_smile:


----------



## greendohn

I'm with Farmer Steve,,2-4-D is my choice for chasing out the weeds.

However, "Arnornaught",,,you wield that weed tool like a Shaolin Prince, Grasshopper!!


----------



## Arbonaut

[video=youtube;0Xs0CueFwDg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xs0CueFwDg&feature=youtu.be[/video]​


----------



## tbow388

*Duhhhhhh*



Genius. said:


> What???
> 
> A nice long secluded line like that and no huge pile of dirt or burm at the end for a shooting range?



Genius, look hard at the pic. In front of the toyota way back on the property you can see a black blob. That is my burn pile. I keep half rounds of sweetgum out there and shoot into it often.


----------



## farmer steve

Arbonaut said:


> [video=youtube;0Xs0CueFwDg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xs0CueFwDg&feature=youtu.be[/video]​



put a fence around that and my sheep would love it:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Arbonaut

farmer steve said:


> put a fence around that and my sheep would love it:hmm3grin2orange:



Yup, sheep doo played a huge role. My doggie would like having 'em around.


----------



## Stihl310

I spend a little time on my yard, and enjoy seeing what comes out of what I put into it.... It's still a work in progress and not completely filled in, someday. 

But i design lawnmowers for a living so I'm kinda partial 










I


----------



## rmcphearson

Emerald Zoysia mowed at 3/4" with a 1939 Toro putting green mower. Zoysia goes dormant later in the fall and wakes up later in the spring than other grasses. It hasn't really gotten going yet this year. The damaged area is from my HVAC guy flushing the old freon out of the lines last summer.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Cpjlube

farmer steve said:


> And 2,4 D:msp_smile:



I like Triplet. 2,4D , Mecoprop-p and Dicamba. Much better than 2,4 D only, on turf. 

Yeah. I like a nice lawn....... And gardens and saws and firewood and trees etc. 

Chuck


----------



## treedog54

*Goats*

We've got 2 pet goats and 1 horse and I haven't mowed my lawn in 2 years,had ta build a tall fence around da garden ,but other than that it's all good. Lawns are a waste of time and money IMHO


----------



## Arbonaut

[video=youtube;yqj-wgT8CiI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqj-wgT8CiI&feature=youtu.be[/video]


----------



## Arbonaut




----------



## forestryworks

Arbonaut said:


> I'd like to know what he is burning off the Kentucky Bluegrass with, but he left.



The same thing you burn anything with, fire  Which comes from a process called combustion via a fuel and air mixture from a wonderful and simple invention called a drip torch.






I left cause I had 10 acres of the K Bluegrass to burn. And speaking of your precious grass, those weak roots (photo below - numbers are in feet and your grass is the first on the left) couldn't compete in a true sod - the kind found in tallgrass prairies. Deep rooted perennial prairie plants create healthier soil biota, as well as growing tall above ground biomass which can intercept and store and filter more precipitation before it runs off - up to 53 tons per acre during one 1" per hour precipitation event - which is the main way in which we get clean water from overland flow. 






A Kentucky Bluegrass lawn's (and any other short turfgrass) interception rate doesn't come anywhere remotely in the ballpark of that figure - most water applied to lawns runs right off because people apply too much at once. And the vegetation is too short. Consequently, all those chemicals from fertilizers and herbicides, as well as your dog's and cat's fecal bacteria get carried with the water and into municipal stormwater drains. And eventually into that glass you fill up. Oh and it plays a big role in why the Gulf of Mexico has such a huge dead zone.

To simplify: More prairie = cleaner water. More lawns and farms = low-oxygen water. I can live just fine without corn and turfgrass.






It's not about being an "environmental whacko", it's just common sense to not use a mundane lawn. But like I said, basic ecology and knowledge of one's natural heritage is sadly lost among most people. Not my fault you're insecure about that.

There's also the issue of soil carbon and water. Water quality always follows soil carbon levels. Turfgrass provides almost no soil carbon when compared to prairies. Grasslands as a whole store almost 1/3 of the world's carbon in the root systems - and that carbon is not lost during burning. It is lost, however, when prairies are plowed and converted to row crops and tame grazing pastures and lawns.

Oh, before I forget, if you've seen one square inch of non-native lawn, you've seen them all. If you've seen one square foot of prairie, you've got hundreds of billions more to see - and it changes every season!

Back to burning tomorrow!


----------



## Cpjlube

Stihl310 said:


> I spend a little time on my yard, and enjoy seeing what comes out of what I put into it.... It's still a work in progress and not completely filled in, someday.
> 
> But i design lawnmowers for a living so I'm kinda partial
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I



I can appreciate a nice lawn and respect the prairie grass and forests. I'm not sure I'm willing to give up my lawn for prairie grass though. Guess I'm partial to non native species. 
View attachment 293820


----------



## Arbonaut

forestryworks said:


> Deep rooted perennial prairie plants create healthier soil biota, as well as growing tall above ground biomass which can intercept and store and filter more precipitation before it runs off - up to 53 tons per acre during one 1" per hour precipitation event - which is the main way in which we get clean water from overland flow.
> 
> A Kentucky Bluegrass lawn's (and any other short turfgrass) interception rate doesn't come anywhere remotely in the ballpark of that figure - most water applied to lawns runs right off because people apply too much at once. And the vegetation is too short. Oh and it plays a big role in why the Gulf of Mexico has such a huge dead zone.
> 
> To simplify: More prairie = cleaner water. More lawns and farms = low-oxygen water. I can live just fine without corn and turfgrass.
> 
> *It's not about being an "environmental whacko"*, it's just common sense to not use a mundane lawn. But like I said, basic ecology and knowledge of one's natural heritage is sadly lost among most people. Not my fault you're insecure about that.
> 
> There's also the issue of soil carbon and water. Water quality always follows soil carbon levels. Turfgrass provides almost no soil carbon when compared to prairies. Grasslands as a whole store almost 1/3 of the world's carbon in the root systems - and that. It is lost, however, when prairies are plowed and converted to row crops and tame grazing pastures and lawns.
> 
> Oh, before I forget, if you've seen one square inch of non-native lawn, you've seen them all. If you've seen one square foot of prairie, you've got hundreds of billions more to see - and it changes every season!
> 
> Back to burning tomorrow!



Thanks ForestryWorks. I'm a little slow, but this is a good case. I like the pictures too. 



forestryworks said:


> Consequently, all those chemicals from fertilizers and herbicides, as well as your dog's and cat's fecal bacteria get carried with the water and into municipal stormwater drains. And eventually into that glass you fill up.



That's why I only drink out of sealed plastic bottles. 

That having been said, in America, we have Football, Baseball, Children, NASCAR and Golf to name a few. How do they impact the Hypoxic Zone in the Gulf?


----------



## Arbonaut

One of the Turf-Type tall fescue cultivars I employ in lawns is called, "_Survivor_." If you look at the above chart, which I'm glad FW posted, you'll notice it is conspicuously omitted. Common sense is what we all have. What FW is referring to as "common sense" is reserved for the elite. Thus it is something else.

If you like field mouse, chiggers and ticks all over your kids and burning your lawn with a torch to enhance fauna and biota, that's out of my league. Just don't twist facts. 

Here is some characteristic of some of the fescue types we recruit for home lawns and sports turf/parks.

Survivor/SR8650, etc.:

The extremely long root system is the secret to Survivor’s drought tolerance.
This means less frequent irrigation because *the roots can reach as deep as six feet* 
in the soil to absorb water.

(Now that puts it in the top of the chart. And KBG can reach two feet not four inches.)

Tall fescues are best adapted to areas of the transitional zones, 
between the cool humid and warm humid regions of the United 
States. Tall fescue will also perform well in the arid regions of the 
Western United States provided water is available. Increasingly, 
the turf-types are being utilized in additional area where their 
drought resistance is an advantage, alone or in combination with 
Kentucky bluegrass. Tall fescues are adapted to a wide variety of 
soil conditions, from droughty soils to wet. They even can tolerate 
periods of submersion. Although they will grow on infertile soils, 
tall fescue does respond to fertilization. Tall fescues can also 
tolerate pH ranges from 4.6 to 8.5, but does best in soils with a pH 
ranging from 5.5 to 6.5.


----------



## Arbonaut

For the Record, aside from lawn care's wide acceptance as a standard cultural practice, we are just gonna do it, period. But don't forget to have fun. I can't see how I overlooked it in starting a thread like this, except I was having too much fun. And we all know what happens then. Still, I didn't anticipate an assault on what we take for granted (the Yard?)

OK, but this is fun. (Guys that posted up some good lawns, appreciated, BTW). Those among yuns who is following this thread might like this here. The chart above showing the various root textures of different weeds was compiled by a woman named, "Heidi Natura." She represents the, "Conservation Research Institute." They are Chicago-based dandelion eaters, if that comforts you any. Don't take the propane drip to the sod, till ya read the mission statement/"Philosophy" of the "Conservation Research Institute." (Below.) They got a plan to store the carbon _and_ reintegrate the children.

*PHILOSOPHY
THE NATURAL WORLD:
A PROVEN SOURCE OF WISDOM

"Whether trying to solve soil erosion and carbon storage issues or finding ways to reintegrate our children into the natural world, Conservation Research Institute uses models discernable in nature as our guide. We believe that when our cultural behaviors are in harmony with land and the native plants and animals around us, we are in consilience with our place and ourselves. We always will ask, “Are we building on these relationships or are we mining them away?”*

That makes me feel better.


----------



## forestryworks

Arbonaut said:


> One of the Turf-Type tall fescue cultivars I employ in lawns is called, "_Survivor_." If you look at the above chart, which I'm glad FW posted, you'll notice it is conspicuously omitted.



That's because native plants aren't modern human GMOs bred in fancy cultivar farms. They didn't show your "survivor" mutant because it doesn't compare to the natives. And therein lies the point that you've missed twice. Not that I suspected differently.



> Common sense is what we all have.



... I'll assume that was a joke, otherwise that's an awfully ignorant statement. So, in the famous words of Dennis Cahoon - "Hahahahahahahahaha!"



> What FW is referring to as "common sense" is reserved for the elite. Thus it is something else.



Now you've really been breathing too many chemicals  Nice job of showing your insecurity once again. Keep it up!



> If you like field mouse, chiggers and ticks all over your kids and burning your lawn with a torch to enhance fauna and biota, that's out of my league. Just don't twist facts.



I'm just telling it like it is. And you're a sissy if you can't handle the bugs and the animals. What a fancy European-influenced feller you are 



> because *the roots can reach as deep as six feet* in the soil to absorb water.
> (Now that puts it in the top of the chart. And KBG can reach two feet not four inches.)



The roots of your shallow turfgrass can absorb water? Golly gee! I'd have never guessed!

I'll believe that root depth when I see it - and I'd highly doubt that is common root depth for that species as a whole. This all goes back to how the lawnly urbanites water their grass - too much at once, which creates shallow root systems.

And 6 feet isn't 16 feet. Nowhere near the top of the chart.



Arbonaut said:


> Still, I didn't anticipate an assault on what we *take for granted* (the Yard?)



Taking lawns for granted? Yeah, that's a great show of common sense 



> They are Chicago-based Dandelion eaters.



Typical ignoramus response from a fool who has no clue what they actually do. Good job! I expected nothing less. 



> They got a plan to store the carbon _and_ reintegrate the children.



And...? Oh right, that makes you insecure because they don't tame nature with loads of chemicals, constant mowing, straight lines and right angles for your kids and domestic pets to frolic around in a "safe" and artificial environment. I'm glad you're pretty awesome at missing points, which is something people with common sense don't do. You must be the one with "elite" common sense. In other words, pretty damn out of touch, especially when you can't grasp the simple concept of soil carbon.

The farmer I spoke with today, after the meeting to restore half of his land to prairie (his request, not ours), he gets it: 

"I tell ya, farming ain't what it used to be. It costs too damn much with all those inputs and not enough outputs - save for my corn. More and more most years, we all just break even or barely peek above that line, because, most everyone now days is owned by the big seed companies, Monsanto, Syngenta, puttin' out that GMO nonsense - and they want us to feed the world?! Ain't happenin', no sir. It's like them city slickers and their fancy lawn grasses and the mowing and all that fertilizer they put out, hell it's more than I put out on my land all year! But what the hell, they're so far gone from even knowing about the land and it's plants - the very thing that allowed their grandparents and their great-grandparents to make a living - that trying to get them to understand what I do and understand what you do just goes right over their head. Anyone can see that those prairie grasses, with their big root systems, are what made that rich prairie soil that allows me to farm today. Most people just don't want to believe that for some reason. I guess they think they're above all that. It's hard not to pity them poor fools."


----------



## Arbonaut

Don't be so sensitive.


----------



## forestryworks

Arbonaut said:


> Don't be so sensitive.



Whatever keeps your chin up, Sally


----------



## Arbonaut

forestryworks said:


> ... I'll assume that was a joke, otherwise that's an awfully ignorant statement. So, in the famous words of Dennis Cahoon - "Hahahahahahahahaha!"



*DING* good one.



forestryworks said:


> What a fancy European-influenced feller you are



It's a Faller. I don't do seminars anymore, but the Stihls did influence me. You the first guy on here in a while to do much name calling at me, but get it right. OK.




forestryworks said:


> In other words, pretty damn out of touch, especially when you can't grasp the simple concept of soil carbon.


 
I can grasp it. I was more interested in the large colonies of red wigglers in me chemical free stuff like my compost mountain and tons in my yard and night crawlers. That's why I was hopin' guys wouldn't get out the torch til they understood the implications of those actions. I got a heck of a one liner about whales, but I save it in case you stick around. Carbon is everywhere there is life, so I don't try to measure it.


----------



## JHctRednek

Hey now I think that I have some of the best grass on AS....

View attachment 294055


Thats 400+ bales of Orchard Grass/Timothey mix and the best part is I only have to mow it twice a year


----------



## rmcphearson

forestryworks said:


> This all goes back to how the lawnly urbanites water their grass - too much at once, which creates shallow root systems.



For anyone who is still interested in destroying civilization as we know it by having a nice lawn the above statement is incorrect. Relatively shallow root systems are the result of frequent light watering. For the healthiest turf, deepest root system, irrigation should be withheld until the turf is on the verge of death, and then it should be applied to completely saturate the root zone. Spot watering only the areas in danger of dying is the most effecient method.

I think I've spent more time reading the last few post of this thread than I spent watering my lawn last year.


----------



## Arbonaut

JHctRednek said:


> Hey now I think that I have some of the best grass on AS....
> 
> View attachment 294055
> 
> 
> Thats 400+ bales of Orchard Grass/Timothey mix and the best part is I only have to mow it twice a year



You do! Hahaha. We a site south of the Shelbyville Terminal Moraine from the Wisconsin Glacial Run. Thank god the thang didn't float down any more whactivists than it did. Any how the alluvial deposits here were still rich enough that we got to cut hay four times. That doesn't bother us, cause farming isn't really a chore when you love it.



rmcphearson said:


> For anyone who is still interested in destroying civilization as we know it by having a nice lawn the above statement is incorrect. Relatively shallow root systems are the result of frequent light watering. For the healthiest turf, deepest root system, irrigation should be withheld until the turf is on the verge of death, and then it should be applied to completely saturate the root zone. Spot watering only the areas in danger of dying is the most effecient method.
> 
> I think I've spent more time reading the last few post of this thread than I spent watering my lawn last year.



I posted a vid how I water mine. Love your Zoysia, Roland.


----------



## rmcphearson

Stihl310 said:


> I spend a little time on my yard, and enjoy seeing what comes out of what I put into it.... It's still a work in progress and not completely filled in, someday.
> 
> But i design lawnmowers for a living so I'm kinda partial
> 
> I



Good looking turf. What type of mowers do you design?


----------



## Arbonaut

rmcphearson said:


> Good looking turf. What type of mowers do you design?



If they are in the know, they'll design these. lol.



​


----------



## tbow388

*grass*

WHEW, what a read since the last time I was on this thread.

Seems like someone on here doesn't like grass and yuppies and loves to tear them down.

I still like a pretty lawn even though I don't have one.

Also like the prairie grass in the wind.


----------



## ChipMonger

Arbonaut,

I appreciate a nice lawn too. Im curious as to what fertilizers, if any, you use. If you could post them, how much you use and how often i would appreciate it.


----------



## rmcphearson

Arbonaut said:


> If they are in the know, they'll design these. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ​



One thing I like about it, no plastic. Steel, CI, wood, and aluminum. I gave it the annual sharpening last week. 74 years and will cut the hair off a nats ass. It was designed to be used 4 hours a day, 7 days a week for years. The modern gas powered version goes for about $7k, half of that is in the engine/clutch, so I figure this model would have sold for about 3.5k in todays dollars.


----------



## Sawyer Rob

rmcphearson said:


> The modern gas powered version goes for about $7k, half of that is in the engine/clutch, so I figure this model would have sold for about 3.5k in todays dollars.



I'm just wondering what the heck kind of an engine/clutch that cost $3,500.00?? I can buy a small block Chevy for that much! lol

SR


----------



## forestryworks

rmcphearson said:


> Relatively shallow root systems are the result of frequent light watering



Watering too much at once creates the same result as frequent and light watering, because it results in runoff and it ain't going to the roots.


----------



## farmer steve

forestryworks said:


> That's because native plants aren't modern human GMOs bred in fancy cultivar farms. They didn't show your "survivor" mutant because it doesn't compare to the natives. And therein lies the point that you've missed twice. Not that I suspected differently.
> 
> 
> 
> ... I'll assume that was a joke, otherwise that's an awfully ignorant statement. So, in the famous words of Dennis Cahoon - "Hahahahahahahahaha!"
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've really been breathing too many chemicals  Nice job of showing your insecurity once again. Keep it up!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just telling it like it is. And you're a sissy if you can't handle the bugs and the animals. What a fancy European-influenced feller you are
> 
> 
> 
> The roots of your shallow turfgrass can absorb water? Golly gee! I'd have never guessed!
> 
> I'll believe that root depth when I see it - and I'd highly doubt that is common root depth for that species as a whole. This all goes back to how the lawnly urbanites water their grass - too much at once, which creates shallow root systems.
> 
> And 6 feet isn't 16 feet. Nowhere near the top of the chart.
> 
> 
> 
> Taking lawns for granted? Yeah, that's a great show of common sense
> 
> 
> 
> Typical ignoramus response from a fool who has no clue what they actually do. Good job! I expected nothing less.
> 
> 
> 
> And...? Oh right, that makes you insecure because they don't tame nature with loads of chemicals, constant mowing, straight lines and right angles for your kids and domestic pets to frolic around in a "safe" and artificial environment. I'm glad you're pretty awesome at missing points, which is something people with common sense don't do. You must be the one with "elite" common sense. In other words, pretty damn out of touch, especially when you can't grasp the simple concept of soil carbon.
> 
> The farmer I spoke with today, after the meeting to restore half of his land to prairie (his request, not ours), he gets it:
> 
> "I tell ya, farming ain't what it used to be. It costs too damn much with all those inputs and not enough outputs - save for my corn. More and more most years, we all just break even or barely peek above that line, because, most everyone now days is owned by the big seed companies, Monsanto, Syngenta, puttin' out that GMO nonsense - and they want us to feed the world?! Ain't happenin', no sir. It's like them city slickers and their fancy lawn grasses and the mowing and all that fertilizer they put out, hell it's more than I put out on my land all year! But what the hell, they're so far gone from even knowing about the land and it's plants - the very thing that allowed their grandparents and their great-grandparents to make a living - that trying to get them to understand what I do and understand what you do just goes right over their head. Anyone can see that those prairie grasses, with their big root systems, are what made that rich prairie soil that allows me to farm today. Most people just don't want to believe that for some reason. I guess they think they're above all that. It's hard not to pity them poor fools."





Arbonaut said:


> Don't be so sensitive.


opcorn:


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## rmcphearson

Sawyer Rob said:


> I'm just wondering what the heck kind of an engine/clutch that cost $3,500.00?? I can buy a small block Chevy for that much! lol
> 
> SR



4hp Honda, the clutch and drive system is fairly complex, but your right about the high price.
Here's a hybrid gas/electric with an onboard computer that controls reel speed, mow speed ect. and can be accessed only with a password so the operator can't change those things. This one probably approaches 10k.
Jacobsen - Renowned for Turf Maintenance Solutions

Sorry for hyjacking the thread Arbonaut.


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## stihl023/5

ChipMonger said:


> Arbonaut,
> 
> I appreciate a nice lawn too. Im curious as to what fertilizers, if any, you use. If you could post them, how much you use and how often i would appreciate it.



Well?


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## Arbonaut

ChipMonger said:


> Arbonaut,
> 
> I appreciate a nice lawn too. Im curious as to what fertilizers, if any, you use. If you could post them, how much you use and how often i would appreciate it.


No Problema. I'm here to help. Noted, first we talk soil.



rmcphearson said:


> Sorry for hyjacking the thread Arbonaut.



Don't worry about it RM, I hijacked your 1939 reel-type Toro Pic for my desktop background, so we're square. lol



stihl023/5 said:


> Well?



I thought you'd come around.


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## greendohn

good ol' triple 12 fertilizer, about once a year, broadcast rates may vary,,,


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## stihl023/5

stihl023/5 said:


> Well?




I thought you'd come around.[/QUOTE]

So what do you use?


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## Arbonaut

There is some of the richest farm dirt in the world in this area. Yet, try to get any decent topsoil on a building site. Part of the problem is the disruption to the soil structure during building, part of it is inherent as 'why build there when you can farm there?'-- is ususally the concern. Architects, Engineers and Contractors go out of thier way to build on stable soil, too. That means clay.

The integrity of clay lies in both the mechanical grip that the smaller parts it is composed of have on one another--and more importantly on the magnetic bond betwen positive and negatively charged particles. Humus goes strides toward creating mechanical separation. If you want to transform clay, learn to break the molecular bond. This is done with surfactant. It is beyond soap and soap always contains some type of surfactant. However think of it as soap. Remember that old expression about soap, "A little goes a long way?" *DING* I'm tellin' you one of the most coveted secrets in high end turfgrass.

Ammonium Lauryl Ether Sulfate

Google it.

Nail down soil structure, pH, site prep and drainage, you're halfway home. The rest is getting the dang stuff established and keeping a sharp blade on it.

Gardening is like cooking. Use the finest ingredients, the rest is all about Temperature and Timing.


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## Arbonaut

Here is the rest of the equation. 
Wood ashes: I've made tons in the ten years I lived here. This is your 5% Potash source and it raises pH, which counteracts the acidification which occurs as you return clippings to the soil and they decompose. I never haul them off the place, and my lawn is very stress tolerant however my wife is not.
Household Cleaning Ammonia:Yes it cleans. I wouldn't use the lemon kind, but you can dump out buckets of it or green up 15-20,000 square feet of sod for about $2.50 per year using it mixed with water out of a sprinkler can or sprayer. You'll find less neighborhood cats using the facility as they can't stand anything that makes more ammonia than them=Arbonaut. I don't do any fall nitrogen and cut off this practice after May 5 unless it is poured out the cleaning buckets before a August Rainstorm.
Ascophyllum Nodosum: The dreaded Brown Knotted Norweigan Wrack Seaweed in extract and meal form. (One of Norway's chief exports.) I'll go into this later if I don't get the boot.
Kelp Meal: Fed to the Chickens and Rabbits as supplement. Comes from the same seaweed plant as above. Google it or I fill you in soon.
Rabbit Poo: Compost it with Oak Leaves. They got a straight up diet, it shows-No?
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate.) Breaks up clay adds Calcium and Sulfur.
Dolomitic Limestone: I've found it to be as relevant in greening it up as Nitrogen. It is really about synergy and moderation.


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## Arbonaut

*Got Some Rain.*





Austrian Pine growing slower than I thought they did. Sorry them concrete border thangs aren't finished yet. Them and the paver border are new.




Dunno if these pics work out. Trying it at dusk with the flash.




Boulevard is the best stuff. That's public property. Making it stand up out there is a challenge. A Nice Boulevard is almost a Proverb. Just as easy to to it right. To me it's like your appearance. Your yard and your woodpile say a lot about what kind of guy you are.




White Pine.


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## Arbonaut

*Still Following this Thread...?*

You've earned your stripes.




Eastern Box








Snapper 7 HP




Gettin' the boulders situated in the border. That shrub is a Rose of Sharon. Dwarf Hibiscus. I think it is the state flower of Hawaii.


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## rmcphearson

It would be nice to have a neighbor that comes close to what you've got there. My neighbor next door sits in his tiny living room watching a HUGE television screen while his 2 ft. tall weeds take over the place. I'm pulling his property value up and he's dragging mine down.

Keep up the good work.


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## mga

the yard looks good, man, but you really have to concentrate on the weeds and stuff growing around them shrubs. 

now, if some one can tell me how to permanently get rid of creeping charlie / veronica i'd be grateful. 

it has round jagged leaves and produces a purple flower thing and grows via a root-vine.


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## Lookin4lunkers

Interesting read...lots of good stuff from both sides:msp_wink:


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## dominic

Arbonaut said:


> You've earned your stripes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eastern Box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snapper 7 HP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gettin' the boulders situated in the border. That shrub is a Rose of Sharon. Dwarf Hibiscus. I think it is the state flower of Hawaii.




I was gonna weigh in with something....but after those pics I am not worthy.

Nicely done. 

I have something to aspire to.


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## olyman

forestryworks said:


> The same thing you burn anything with, fire  Which comes from a process called combustion via a fuel and air mixture from a wonderful and simple invention called a drip torch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I left cause I had 10 acres of the K Bluegrass to burn. And speaking of your precious grass, those weak roots (photo below - numbers are in feet and your grass is the first on the left) couldn't compete in a true sod - the kind found in tallgrass prairies. Deep rooted perennial prairie plants create healthier soil biota, as well as growing tall above ground biomass which can intercept and store and filter more precipitation before it runs off - up to 53 tons per acre during one 1" per hour precipitation event - which is the main way in which we get clean water from overland flow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Kentucky Bluegrass lawn's (and any other short turfgrass) interception rate doesn't come anywhere remotely in the ballpark of that figure - most water applied to lawns runs right off because people apply too much at once. And the vegetation is too short. Consequently, all those chemicals from fertilizers and herbicides, as well as your dog's and cat's fecal bacteria get carried with the water and into municipal stormwater drains. And eventually into that glass you fill up. Oh and it plays a big role in why the Gulf of Mexico has such a huge dead zone.
> 
> To simplify: More prairie = cleaner water. More lawns and farms = low-oxygen water. I can live just fine without corn and turfgrass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about being an "environmental whacko", it's just common sense to not use a mundane lawn. But like I said, basic ecology and knowledge of one's natural heritage is sadly lost among most people. Not my fault you're insecure about that.
> 
> There's also the issue of soil carbon and water. Water quality always follows soil carbon levels. Turfgrass provides almost no soil carbon when compared to prairies. Grasslands as a whole store almost 1/3 of the world's carbon in the root systems - and that carbon is not lost during burning. It is lost, however, when prairies are plowed and converted to row crops and tame grazing pastures and lawns.
> 
> Oh, before I forget, if you've seen one square inch of non-native lawn, you've seen them all. If you've seen one square foot of prairie, you've got hundreds of billions more to see - and it changes every season!
> 
> Back to burning tomorrow!


 shewwwwwww!!! good post!!! if the ground cover,,in forests,,was let to burn off every year,,we wouldn't have major forest fires..but then,,what would all the leftist twits have to cry about?????


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## 066blaster

mga said:


> the yard looks good, man, but you really have to concentrate on the weeds and stuff growing around them shrubs.
> 
> now, if some one can tell me how to permanently get rid of creeping charlie / veronica i'd be grateful.
> 
> it has round jagged leaves and produces a purple flower thing and grows via a root-vine.


Use weed b gone 2 applications 2 weeks apart in spring and a application in fall mid september. I owned a lawn care business for 18 years. I used different products, same ingredients just stronger.


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## timberjak

wampum said:


> My horses and beef love nice grass,I hate the stuff in my yard,in the pasture its great.I always cut it as low as I can and the browner the better. The only moisture it gets besides rain is an occasional leak I or the dog puts on it.The only fertilizer I use is old gasoline and motor oil,and the crap still grows. I actually hate to cut grass,it is not soothing or a pleasant task to me,others say they love to cut grass.I do my best to kill it so that I can go longer between cuts.I am not putting anyone down that likes grass,I just hate to waste the time on cutting it.I do not rake leaves,leaves serve a good purpose they kill grass.I like leaves.
> 
> I often thought how nice it would have been to put down astro turf.I cut the grass yesterday for the first time this year.All I could think of is I only have about 25 more times to do this,this year.Then comes my friends the leaves.


Im with wampum as long as its not dirt im ok. Yellow grass is nice looking. We have a 5,000 + dollar mower and u still have to drive it! Not an enjoyable sport. I like my kids and hunting fishing. 


Sent from my iPhone using my nose


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## lwn9186

opcorn:


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