# Stihl Bar Oil- Is it really worth the price?



## Somesawguy (Oct 12, 2010)

I can get a gallon of generic bar oil at TSC for $6 and Stihl wants $15. Is there anything that much better about the Stihl that's worth the price?

I have a MS290, and I've been running the Stihl oil exclusively in the past, but now that it's out of warranty, I don't want to be wasting money on it.

I like the saw, but the oiler is less than impressive on it. Even with the winter mix, it's barely what I'd consider adequate with the adjuster on full. The chain isn't completely dry, but it doesn't throw much, even at wide open. 

Are they all like that, or is my saw defective?

Thanks


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2010)

I no longer buy Stihl bar oil, due to the price. The TSC stuff seems pretty good.


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## SteveH (Oct 12, 2010)

The only newer saws I've run are all Stihls, meaning in the past ten yr. 

I find that they don't "throw" near as much oil as my saws back in the 70s and 80s did. Far from it. I don't know whether it's different oil characteristics or by saw design. In any case, I use less oil now and I have seen no increase in bar and/or chain wear due to less bar oil consumption.

Any good quality bar oil does just fine, brand doesn't matter.


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## oscar4883 (Oct 12, 2010)

No.


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## Deereman76 (Oct 12, 2010)

I have an 029, and the oiler never seemed to be right - I could burn 2 tanks of gas, and still have oil in the tank.... Bar wear was pretty bad...... I Finally pulled the oil pump out and modified it to pump more oil. If you are not using over 1/2 tank oil to a tank of gas, I would say you need more.....


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## Arrowhead (Oct 12, 2010)

I run the cheap bar oil. It works just fine.


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## JustinM (Oct 12, 2010)

Its funny because 4 litres of just about anything (husky, stihl, canadian tire house brand etc) all seems to cost around $10 here. Because of that, I usually just buy the stihl or husky but honestly have no real preference.


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## mikefunaro (Oct 12, 2010)

That stihl dealer is seriously taking people for a ride, or not buying in large quantities. one or the other. 

I can get stihl for $9.50 at a local stihl dealer in NH and that's pretty normal in these parts. 

The TSC is on sale for $6 usually but isn't normally $6 all day every day. 

Some of the real cheap stuff and no name stuff is pretty bad, however, if you're looking at a huge disparity it's worth dealing with. 

The TSC tends to be pretty good stuff so in your case it's totally worth it. 

If you want to run real winter weight and not home brew it yourself cutting down diesel you usually need to go stihl or husky; the no names don't usually put out a winter mix.


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## ironman_gq (Oct 12, 2010)

The stihl stuf is designed to not use as much oil. between the bar design and the driver design on the chain they supposedly dont require as much oil as the other brands do. I think I remember reading that on their website a while back


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## GASoline71 (Oct 12, 2010)

I run only Stihl bar oil. 

Gary


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## alderman (Oct 12, 2010)

I stocked up on oil before the big price increases. I run the cheaper stuff in the Winter when its colder out and Motion Lotion in the summer. The local shop sells 30 wt. and 40 wt. and I normally run 30 wt. in my saws.

The last time I checked Walmart it was almost $8 per gallon and I can get the oil from the dealer for $8.95. I don't see the point in paying big bucks for oil as I've never had an issue running whatever was cheapest.


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## CGC4200 (Oct 12, 2010)

*not to me*

My only Stihl saw is an HT-75, It gets the same as the rest.
I bought 2 gallons of TSC for $6 each to stock up, bought a gallon
of Poulan yesterday for $5.49.
I am doing good to resist temptation of utilizing used engine oil
for the purpose.


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## BloodOnTheIce (Oct 12, 2010)

We sell only Stihl stuff because guys won't buy anything else. We tried to stock "save a chain" brand oil and seems to be a good quality oil, I still use it in my saws. We sold it at 8.99$ a gallon and had a hard time selling it. On the other hand we charge 12.99$ a gallon for Stihl brand bar oil, guys would walk past the display with oil for 8.99$ and pay 4$ more a gallon for the Stihl. Locally we're on the cheaper end for bar oil, the Stihl oil at the John Deere chain is 16.99$ a gallon, and 22.99$ a gallon for bio oil. And TSC brand is 10.99 and they sell Husqvarna oil for 14.99 a gallon. 
Around the corner at the hardware store they sell filtered waste oil for 12.99 a gallon.


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## o8f150 (Oct 12, 2010)

i run echo bar oil only,,i have all my saws set to use 1 tank oil to 3/4 tank fuel mix


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> We sell only Stihl stuff because guys won't buy anything else. We tried to stock "save a chain" brand oil and seems to be a good quality oil, I still use it in my saws. We sold it at 8.99$ a gallon and had a hard time selling it. On the other hand we charge 12.99$ a gallon for Stihl brand bar oil, guys would walk past the display with oil for 8.99$ and pay 4$ more a gallon for the Stihl. Locally we're on the cheaper end for bar oil, the Stihl oil at the John Deere chain is 16.99$ a gallon, and 22.99$ a gallon for bio oil. And TSC brand is 10.99 and they sell Husqvarna oil for 14.99 a gallon.
> Around the corner at the hardware store they sell filtered waste oil for 12.99 a gallon.



Good post. I just checked the computer here and we have sold almost 400 gallons of Stihl bar oil at 10.50 a gallon this year so far. We also stock another bar oil that sells for 6.99 a gallon, some off brand stuff in a green bottle. That we have sold exactly 6 gallons so far this year. People around here prefer name brand over off brand regardless of the price, our numbers prove that beyond any doubt. They also prove there are 6 cheap suckers that come in here, gonna raise the price of that cheap stuff to 9.99 a gallon,


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## Stihlman441 (Oct 12, 2010)

Over here Stihl bar oil is a rip off,its made by Castrol, $140 for 20 litres.


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Good post. I just checked the computer here and we have sold almost 400 gallons of Stihl bar oil at 10.50 a gallon this year so far. We also stock another bar oil that sells for 6.99 a gallon, some off brand stuff in a green bottle. That we have sold exactly 6 gallons so far this year. People around here prefer name brand over off brand regardless of the price, our numbers prove that beyond any doubt. They also prove there are 6 cheap suckers that come in here, gonna raise the price of that cheap stuff to 9.99 a gallon,



You must be selling to yuppies.


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## Rudedog (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Good post. I just checked the computer here and we have sold almost 400 gallons of Stihl bar oil at 10.50 a gallon this year so far. We also stock another bar oil that sells for 6.99 a gallon, some off brand stuff in a green bottle. That we have sold exactly 6 gallons so far this year. People around here prefer name brand over off brand regardless of the price, our numbers prove that beyond any doubt. They also prove there are 6 cheap suckers that come in here, gonna raise the price of that cheap stuff to 9.99 a gallon,



..... and you'll be selling your 401st gallon next week. I need a gallon for that 090 for the West Virginia GTG.


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## Rudedog (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> You must be selling to yuppies.



Worse.


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## tdi-rick (Oct 12, 2010)

Stihlman441 said:


> Over here Stihl bar oil is a rip off,its made by Castrol, $140 for 20 litres.



So, did you buy a 220 litre drum ?


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## demographic (Oct 12, 2010)

Here the Stihl oil is comedy (and I'm not laughing) price so I buy Oregon oil which is far and away cheaper and does the same job.


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## 2000ssm6 (Oct 12, 2010)

I bought my last 2 gallons from Napa. Local Stihl shop was at $15 last time I checked. I think Stihl is the best bar oil out, might have to sweet talk the girl at the counter.

I do keep my Napa oil in a Stihl contanier, just to keep it real. Helps me sleep at night.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> You must be selling to yuppies.



Educated ones,hehehe


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

Rudedog said:


> ..... and you'll be selling your 401st gallon next week. I need a gallon for that 090 for the West Virginia GTG.



Smart man,


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Educated ones,hehehe



Tommy, having one's read end lubed up and being bent over a table out in the shed don't count as "education."


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Tommy, having one's read end lubed up and being bent over a table out in the shed don't count as "education."



If 2 or 3 dollars is gonna break your wallet don't waste my time,haha. Space there are tons of people that will order across the country, ride 30 miles, run all over town trying to save a buck. I say have at it. Time spent waiting and running around adds up to more than if they had just picked up a bottle of oil and went on. My yuppies driving those BMW's know that, time is money baby!!!!


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> If 2 or 3 dollars is gonna break your wallet don't waste my time,haha. Space there are tons of people that will order across the country, ride 30 miles, run all over town trying to save a buck. I say have at it. Time spent waiting and running around adds up to more than if they had just picked up a bottle of oil and went on. My yuppies driving those BMW's know that, time is money baby!!!!



Except for the little fact that we're talking about yuppies walking by the sensibly priced stuff in order to throw away an extra 4 dollars. "Time is money" simply doesn't apply.


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## Bob Wright (Oct 12, 2010)

I remember getting B&C oil by the 55 gal drum then pumping it out into generic plastic gallon jugs that said B&C OIL and we sold them for 2 bucks a gallon. Went thru about 4 barrels a year. But that was a few years ago. I stocked up with the farm store oil when it was 6 bucks a gal last month...Bob


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Except for the little fact that we're talking about yuppies walking by the sensibly priced stuff in order to throw away an extra 4 dollars. "Time is money" simply doesn't apply.



For your info we make more money on the cheap stuff we can't hardly give away than we do on the Stihl. Now how come Stihl seems to out sell it 75 to 1 yet the Stihl costs a few bucks more, any idea, and remember we make less profit on the Stihl. I shall await your answer but make it fast, my time is valuable,LOL


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> For your info we make more money on the cheap stuff we can't hardly give away than we do on the Stihl. Now how come Stihl seems to out sell it 75 to 1 yet the Stihl costs a few bucks more, any idea, and remember we make less profit on the Stihl. I shall await your answer but make it fast, my time is valuable,LOL



Yuppies. It's all the yuppies fault.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Yuppies. It's all the yuppies fault.



You wish, even the ole country around here rednecks buy that Stihl oil, they grab it, hop in those big tired 4 wheel drives and they are off to the woods, once again, time is money!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrinbounce2:


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> You wish, even the ole country around here rednecks buy that Stihl oil, they grab it, hop in those big tired 4 wheel drives and they are off to the woods, once again, time is money!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrinbounce2:



Once again, we're talking about taking more time to buy the high priced stuff.


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## codog (Oct 12, 2010)

*bar oil*

I swear when I've bought the cheaper oil from TSC and Walmart in the past, my saws all leaked. I have Stihl 192's to 660's and they all leaked with the cheap stuff. I've gone to higher priced oil and they don't leak at all.


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## Rudedog (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Except for the little fact that we're talking about yuppies walking by the sensibly priced stuff in order to throw away an extra 4 dollars. "Time is money" simply doesn't apply.



I don't pay for the oil. I pay for the advice and service.


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

Rudedog said:


> I don't pay for the oil. I pay for the advice and service.



They'll get you for shoplifting.


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## Stihlman441 (Oct 12, 2010)

tdi-rick said:


> So, did you buy a 220 litre drum ?



No i use this Tru Blu bar oils at about $58 for 20 litres

http://www.trubluoil.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=97


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Once again, we're talking about taking more time to buy the high priced stuff.



Sorry Space but our numbers prove you 100% wrong. Now if you think you can move this cheap stuff we offer come on by, I like to see your face when the man says are you crazy, I'm not buying that cheap schit,LOLOLOLOL


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## procarbine2k1 (Oct 12, 2010)

Rudedog said:


> I don't pay for the oil. I pay for the advice and service.



Agree on that one!



spacemule said:


> They'll get you for shoplifting.


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Sorry Space but our numbers prove you 100% wrong. Now if you think you can move this cheap stuff we offer come on by, I like to see your face when the man says are you crazy, I'm not buying that cheap schit,LOLOLOLOL



Prove me wrong? I was agreeing with you. Money has nothing to do with it. Time has nothing to do with it. Imbecility is the sole factor in this equation.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Prove me wrong? I was agreeing with you. Money has nothing to do with it. Time has nothing to do with it. Imbecility is the sole factor in this equation.



Oh okkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Now I gotta look up "Imbecility" and see what the hell that word means, you and them odd ball words, no wonder I can't undertand ya,haha


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## Rudedog (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Oh okkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Now I gotta look up "Imbecility" and see what the hell that word means, you and them odd ball words, no wonder I can't undertand ya,haha



It means you actually finished school and can afford it. Too bad for Space.


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## 2000ssm6 (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Sorry Space but our numbers prove you 100% wrong.



Space wrong???? I call shenanigans.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

Rudedog said:


> It means you actually finished school and can afford it.



OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK,haha. 

Rude listen up, this is a goodie. Old guy in his 80's comes in last week with a little MS210 Stihl. He goes the chain won't turn. I looked and the brake is on. I give him a evil stare and he goes what. I continued to stare at him real mean and he goes whatttttttttt. I go I can't beleive you, the brake is on. I reached over and pulled the brake, all is fine. He goes well I didn't know, I borrowed this saw from my friend George. I go really, well I'm calling your freind George and telling how you don't know how to run a saw. He grins and says in a fun way you go to hell.

Today he comes in again with the saw. I'm coming out the office door and see him standing there, saw is on the counter. He goes does this saw look clean enuff to you. I glanced at it and said yeah but you got the chain on backwards. He goes you serious, I go yup and then I give him that evil stare. He's like oh schit. I turned his chain around and told him again I'm calling your buddy George and telling him he better not loan you that saw anymore. He goes you go ahead, I'm telling George when I take his saw back that to stay away from that Stihl guy in town, he's a real smart azz,LOL I about fell in the floor laffing, I love old people,


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## Rudedog (Oct 12, 2010)

I'm wait'in for the part about when he tips you for your time saving his azzzz.


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## CentaurG2 (Oct 12, 2010)

Everything from stihl is the best and worth every penny. I cant wait till they start selling cigars.


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## Brian VT (Oct 12, 2010)

I use Mobil 1. It's more $, but way better.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

Rudedog said:


> I'm wait'in for the part about when he tips you for your time saving his azzzz.



Naaaaaaaaaa hell for the good laff I got out of him I woulda paid him, he was a hoot. My ole geezer customers are a blast to work with, they really get me laffing with thier wit, gotta take care of the old folks!!!


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## 2000ssm6 (Oct 12, 2010)

CentaurG2 said:


> Everything from stihl is the best and worth every penny. I cant wait till they start selling cigars.



I think you blow enough smoke up people's a**, don't take up smoking cigars.


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

CentaurG2 said:


> Everything from stihl is the best and worth every penny. I cant wait till they start selling cigars.



I'm sure you love sucking on cigars, eh.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

2000ssm6 said:


> I think you blow enough smoke up people's a**, don't take up smoking cigars.



Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that was mean. I can see Cent now puffing a big White Owl, in Va that has nothing to do with cigars,

Sorry Cent, I couldn't resist..


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> i'm sure you love sucking on cigars, eh.



tgmta,lololololol


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## 2000ssm6 (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that was mean. I can see Cent now puffing a big White Owl, in Va that has nothing to do with cigars,
> 
> Sorry Cent, I couldn't resist..



, means the same thing here. Cent knows when he knocks Stihl, that is my bat signal.


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## CentaurG2 (Oct 12, 2010)

2000ssm6 said:


> I think you blow enough smoke up people's a**, don't take up smoking cigars.



Too late on both counts!


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## CentaurG2 (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that was mean. I can see Cent now puffing a big White Owl, in Va that has nothing to do with cigars,
> 
> Sorry Cent, I couldn't resist..



I feel so violated. 

Thomas, what are you doing back in the states? I though stihl shipped your sorry butt south. Elephant Island was it? Good enough for Shackleton, good enough for you. How did you escape??


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## 2000ssm6 (Oct 12, 2010)

CentaurG2 said:


> Too late on both counts!



LOL.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

CentaurG2 said:


> I feel so violated.
> 
> Thomas, what are you doing back in the states? I though stihl shipped your sorry butt south. Elephant Island was it? Good enough for Shackleton, good enough for you. How did you escape??



Cent they tant sending me anywhere. They wanted to send me to someplace called CAN COON down in MEKI CO this November for all those Stihl's I sold this year, I said no thanks. I toldem once Cent up in NE bought this Stihl Vac I have waiting on him I wanted a paid trip to Graceland and 40 tubes of doo glue for ma hair. Cent getcha butt down here and get this vac, my fans are waiting on my arrival, thankya, thankya very much, haha


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> tgmta,lololololol



huh?


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## THALL10326 (Oct 12, 2010)

spacemule said:


> huh?



Two Great Minds Think Alike.....


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## spacemule (Oct 12, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Two Great Minds Think Alike.....


Ah. I was thinking it was something dirty.


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## Aaron441 (Oct 13, 2010)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Around the corner at the hardware store they sell filtered waste oil for 12.99 a gallon.



Seriously, or is that a joke?


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 13, 2010)

The question isn't what a good bar oil to buy, the question is what is a bad oil to use.
Other than used engine oil there isn't an oil that is worse than the highest priced bar lube.
The tackifier in bar lube is the one of the biggest advertising con job in the oil industry.
Don't take my word, just warm up bar lube to the operating temp of a B&C. and see how tacky that is.
John


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## Somesawguy (Oct 13, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> The question isn't what a good bar oil to buy, the question is what is a bad oil to use.
> Other than used engine oil there isn't an oil that is worse than the highest priced bar lube.
> The tackifier in bar lube is the one of the biggest advertising con job in the oil industry.
> Don't take my word, just warm up bar lube to the operating temp of a B&C. and see how tacky that is.
> John



So what do you use for bar and chain oil? 

You are correct, the question basically was whether the cheap stuff was bad for the saw. I have a bunch of the summer weight orange Stihl oil, but it won't work unless it's warm out. It hardly pumps at all when it's in the 50's


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 13, 2010)

Somesawguy said:


> So what do you use for bar and chain oil?
> 
> You are correct, the question basically was whether the cheap stuff was bad for the saw. I have a bunch of the summer weight orange Stihl oil, but it won't work unless it's warm out. It hardly pumps at all when it's in the 50's



Your right most of that goopy stuff is unpourable in the cold. You should see it at 30 below.
I buy transmission hydraulic by the pail, however any grade motor oil is just as good. I sometimes use 30 weight. Buy whatever is the cheapest as long as it can be poured in the cold.
John


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## bobt (Oct 13, 2010)

In the old days when I worked in a Stihl shop we had a product called "rock drill" oil in 55 gal. drums. I don't think we ever had any real Stihl bar oil, but we surely had Stihl two cycle oil.This was the day when everyone used drain oil on their chain. We sold a gallon for a dollar. The funny part was that there were few plastic gallon jugs available in those days except windshield washer jugs. There were no gallon milk jugs yet. We had to remind the guys to bring in their own jugs or cans.

My boss forbid anyone from bringing in glass gallon bottles because one guy dropped a full one on the concrete floor in the shop once! "Never again",,,,said the boss!


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## brages (Oct 13, 2010)

o8f150 said:


> i run echo bar oil only,,i have all my saws set to use 1 tank oil to 3/4 tank fuel mix



So you know it's time to gas up when the bar starts smokin?? :monkey:


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## ms290 (Oct 13, 2010)

i use the cheapest stuff i can find. as far as i can see there is no benefit in buying that over priced stihl oil. i buy my oil by the case when it goes on sale at atwoods. hard to beat the $6 a gallon price when i use so little any way. i probly go through a gallon or so a weekend when im cutting.


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## HOGBEAR (Oct 13, 2010)

I use the redmax brand price is good and provides awesome protection.


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## mfox (Oct 13, 2010)

ms290 said:


> i probly go through a gallon or so a weekend when im cutting.



Man you must cut ALOT of wood in a weekend. Depending on the size of wood I am cutting, I can heat my home for the winter on less than 2 gallons. And my boiler ran for 6 months last year. And my chains DO NOT run dry.


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## audible fart (Oct 13, 2010)

I just switched from buying gallon jugs of poulan brand from wal mart to "Pro Select Premium" from tractor supply. Never even considered using the stihl brand due to cost.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 30, 2016)

Stihl features the "sticking" quality of their bar oil as a good reason to pay more for their products, and Stihl owners complain that they don't seem spit out enough oil.

I'd like to see where each label gets their supply and which additives they use. Then, I'd like to see a valid scientific examination on each one, comparing them under similar conditions, using the same saws, under the same temperatures, with the same types of wood, etc. Maybe CR has done something like that. I would bet about 650,000,000 dollars there is practically no difference among them, from the priciest to the cheapest. I don't believe any government entity holds them accountable for any of the claims they make about their oil. They are on their own, although they will say their oil meets certain standards, no one in government is responsible to ensure they are accurate claims, if I'm not mistaken.


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## Brettl (Jan 30, 2016)

I was in a small town Husky dealership to pick up oil. He had Husky chain oil for $20 or so, and a no name for $12. I asked him which he would recommend since I'd never dealt with him before. He told me not to bother with the Husky oil, said he used the cheap stuff. He's in Benton KS. Don't remember the shop name but if I ever buy a Husky, I'll drive out to his shop.

I know guys that make a living with their saws. I very seldom see anything name brand in their trucks. I have some Echo oil right now because it was cheap at Lowe's or HD(?).

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk


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## KiwiBro (Jan 30, 2016)

Jackbnimble said:


> Stihl features the "sticking" quality of their bar oil as a good reason to pay more for their products, and Stihl owners complain that they don't seem spit out enough oil.
> 
> I'd like to see where each label gets their supply and which additives they use. Then, I'd like to see a valid scientific examination on each one, comparing them under similar conditions, using the same saws, under the same temperatures, with the same types of wood, etc. Maybe CR has done something like that. I would bet about 650,000,000 dollars there is practically no difference among them, from the priciest to the cheapest. I don't believe any government entity holds them accountable for any of the claims they make about their oil. They are on their own, although they will say their oil meets certain standards, no one in government is responsible to ensure they are accurate claims, if I'm not mistaken.


Got a IR temperature gun a while back and amongst other things, found my bars run cooler with canola oil than other bar oils. Canola happens to be the cheapest here too.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 30, 2016)

Brettl said:


> I was in a small town Husky dealership to pick up oil. He had Husky chain oil for $20 or so, and a no name for $12. I asked him which he would recommend since I'd never dealt with him before. He told me not to bother with the Husky oil, said he used the cheap stuff. He's in Benton KS. Don't remember the shop name but if I ever buy a Husky, I'll drive out to his shop.
> 
> I know guys that make a living with their saws. I very seldom see anything name brand in their trucks. I have some Echo oil right now because it was cheap at Lowe's or HD(?).
> 
> Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk




Thanks Breetl, I believe it and I think you are smart to give him your future business if you can. Tell him why, too, and maybe more guys will begin to understand how important being honest is to people.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 30, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> Got a IR temperature gun a while back and amongst other things, found my bars run cooler with canola oil than other bar oils. Canola happens to be the cheapest here too.




As Balki used to say, Get out of the city!" Are you serious? Cooler and cheaper? (How about Wesson oil or warmed up margarine? Just kidding.) That's unbelievable. How accurate is an IR gun under these circumstances?


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## KiwiBro (Jan 30, 2016)

Jackbnimble said:


> Are you serious?


 Yes. If it helps any, you can rest assured it was not a scientific study. Furthermore, painted, even clear lacquered (as my Tsumura bars were), holds heat. All my bars are now bare steel.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 30, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> Yes. If it helps any, you can rest assured it was not a scientific study. Furthermore, painted, even clear lacquered (as my Tsumura bars were), holds heat. All my bars are now bare steel.




They stopped painting the External Fuel Tank on the Shuttle after the two first flights. Know why? The extra weight. I think it came to more than 600lbs.


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## WCarp (Feb 14, 2022)

I use Amsoil Semi-Synthetic Bar and Chain which is a high tack oil to decrease wear on the blade and chain and to help keep the blade cooler. I may also get more cutting power as a result of less friction. It's rather costly though---$22.5 a gallon for a Amsoil Dealer. It would be nice if someone would do a scientific test to rate the major brands of oil, otherwise there is no definitive evidence which is really better.


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## dennish (Feb 15, 2022)

Husky oil is what my dealer sells. $20/gal.


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## K-techcowboy (Feb 15, 2022)

Somesawguy said:


> I can get a gallon of generic bar oil at TSC for $6 and Stihl wants $15. Is there anything that much better about the Stihl that's worth the price?
> 
> I have a MS290, and I've been running the Stihl oil exclusively in the past, but now that it's out of warranty, I don't want to be wasting money on it.
> 
> ...


Thats(tsc) what I've bein running for months now with the occasional splash of diesel in it on a cold day and its pretty good stuff. I waz buying the husky stuff same price or more then sthils and it was ok just not very sticky.


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## GeeVee (Feb 15, 2022)

It HAD been five years since thiss thread had been resusitated.....


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

I’m pretty jealous of you guys being able to get oil that cheap. The Stihl stuff is the cheapest I can get around here at 18 bucks a gallon. The husky stuff is 22. 
Part of the reason I just use my old engine oil.


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## Brettl (Feb 15, 2022)

I buy the Atwoods house brand for $7.50. Check all your farm and ranch stores, you may find something cheaper than Stihl or Husqvarna.


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## GrizG (Feb 15, 2022)

I've been running Stihl Woodcutter. Over the past 6 years or so it has ranged from $9 to $11 a gallon at my dealer. I got 6 gallons of Husky oil from my brother's estate last year. Quite frankly I don't see any performance difference between the two... they are both sticky and I don't see any difference in the bar/chain wear. I asked my son to get me bar oil prices when he goes to work tomorrow (he sells Stihl and Husky equipment and they've been getting hit with a lot of big cost increases so he's not sure what it goes for now).

I just checked some other local stores and if you buy 4 or more gallons Pro-Select can be had for about $9.20 a gallon, or Husky for $20 a gallon.


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

If I go to the city I can get the stuff at lakes for about 11 bucks if I buy 4 at a time.


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## cookies (Feb 15, 2022)

GeeVee said:


> It HAD been five years since thiss thread had been resusitated.....


And this thread is more valid than ever since even the cheap bar oil is up over 14 bucks and name brand is at or approaching 20. It would be great to have several bar oil brands tested by blackstone oil testing labs to see the differences in additives and concentrations as that resource is now available.


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## Harmon (Feb 15, 2022)

i would have to imagine analyzing the chemistry of bar oil would show wild variations in a single brand let alone competing ones... but I would be curious to find out.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 16, 2022)

WCarp said:


> to help keep the blade cooler.



Do you have a thread on your chain to blade conversion? So now you call it a bladesaw instead of a chainsaw?


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

cookies said:


> And this thread is more valid than ever since even the cheap bar oil is up over 14 bucks and name brand is at or approaching 20. It would be great to have several bar oil brands tested by blackstone oil testing labs to see the differences in additives and concentrations as that resource is now available.


Won't tell you much because there are very little additives in them.
Cheap bar oil works just fine.


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## sb47 (Feb 16, 2022)

I get the feeling that all the bargain brand bar oils are nothing more then recycled engine oil. Thats why I skip the middle man and just use old motor oil. I do not use oil that is extremely black or heavily contaminated. It has to be oil without a huge amount of mileage on it. I also don't use old diesel oil because it is just to nasty. But if you change your oil often then IMO used motor oil works just fine for me.


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

sb47 said:


> I get the feeling that all the bargain brand bar oils are nothing more then recycled engine oil. Thats why I skip the middle man and just use old motor oil. I do not use oil that is extremely black or heavily contaminated. It has to be oil without a huge amount of mileage on it. I also don't use old diesel oil because it is just to nasty. But if you change your oil often then IMO used motor oil works just fine for me.


Why would you have that feeling. I would honestly be supprised if any of them are recycled engine oil. For something like bar oil it's probably cheaper to make it from virgin oil.


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## sb47 (Feb 16, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Why would you have that feeling. I would honestly be supprised if any of them are recycled engine oil. For something like bar oil it's probably cheaper to make it from virgin oil.


Engine oil is much more critical then bar oil and there are plenty of recycled motor oils on the market that are cheap. Why would that not translate to bar oil as well? Even if bar oil fails it;s not the same as a motor failing. Replacing a bar,chain and sprocket is not the same as replacing a motor.
Why would you think they only use virgin oil to make cheap bar oil?


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

sb47 said:


> Engine oil is much more critical then bar oil and there are plenty of recycled motor oils on the market that are cheap. Why would that not translate to bar oil as well? Even if bar oil fails it;s not the same as a motor failing. Replacing a bar,chain and sprocket is not the same as replacing a motor.
> Why would you think they only use virgin oil to make cheap bar oil?


For starters I looked at MSDS files and determined what base oils they are made from. The ones I checked are not made from the same oils as motor oil. Second it's expensive(relatively) to make motor oils. It's also expensive, depending on the process used to recycle motor oils. Why would you do this for oil used in a total loss system?


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## sb47 (Feb 16, 2022)

bwalker said:


> For starters I looked at MSDS files and determined what base oils they are made from. The ones I checked are not made from the same oils as motor oil. Second it's expensive(relatively) to make motor oils. It's also expensive, depending on the process used to recycle motor oils. Why would you do this for oil used in a total loss system?


If recycling used motor oil is so expensive then why is new motor oil 6+ dollars a quart and recycled motor oil 2 dollars a quart? The requirements of motor oil is much higher then what's needed for bar oil.


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## GrizG (Feb 16, 2022)

Just checked the price of the Stihl Woodcutter at my dealer and it’s $12.99. Up a bit but not in the price gouging range like Lowe’s at $25 for Husqvarna bar oil.


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## cookies (Feb 16, 2022)

tid bit of info
the majority of oil used to be 5w or 10w-30, meaning the oil is 30 weight (most bar oil is 30 weight), now the majority used in engines is 20, 0 or 40 weight, transmission fluids are typically 5 weight. When drained and stored as used oil they all get mixed together, when done correctly they are put through the same process as crude oil (distilled) to extract fuels and separate the oil weights by grade. It is considered virgin oil after this process. Recycled used oil is simply filtered, tested for ph, viscosity and additives added then modified to meet api standards and viscosity standards.
Over the years more than one company tried selling recycled engine oil, problem was it cooked off rapidly requiring constant topping off as the excessive additives burned out of it thus negating the lower price. If I learn of a suitable tackifier easily available or easily made I would switch to 5 gallon buckets of hydraulic oil or even filtered used engine/hydraulic oil.


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## Brufab (Feb 16, 2022)

Echo oil when temps are above 40° and generic winter grade when below 40° when cold that Echo bar oil doesn't flow very well


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## SweetMK (Feb 16, 2022)

Well,, Project Farm basically tested Stihl red (or orange??) jug against 10W-30 ,,, WE WILL NOT LIKE THE RESULTS!!
(The test is kinda backward of the test we actually want)

_*(If we want the different bar oils tested against each other someone will have to send Project Farm the request to do that,,*_
*HE 100% only does tests that viewers request,, so,, if YOU send the request,, maybe we will get bar oil tested )*

He found that _Stihl oil does not protect against wear as well as 10W-3__0_,, *that SEEMS bad,, *Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,

AND,, the Stihl almost will not flow at low temps,, (bad for the chainsaw pump?)
*it took 3 minutes for Stihl to flow* as much as 10W-30 did almost instantly,,

UNTIL Project Farm does a test of chainsaw oils,,* this test is kinda saying 10W-30 MIGHT be a better bar lube?? *


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## GrizG (Feb 16, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Well,, Project Farm basically tested Stihl red (or orange??) jug against 10W-30 ,,, WE WILL NOT LIKE THE RESULTS!!
> (The test is kinda backward of the test we actually want)
> 
> _*(If we want the different bar oils tested against each other someone will have to send Project Farm the request to do that,,*_
> ...



In my opinion the results of this test are not transferable to the oils' use on chainsaw bars and chains. The demands on the oil are different. In the case of the chainsaw the oil is constantly replaced by the oiler and is lost to the environment mostly by friction with the wood and being thrown off the nose of the bar (ignoring leaks and spillage for the moment!). The stickiness is important to helping the oil stay on the bar and chain all the way through the rotation. In cold weather I find Stihl Woodcutter flows just fine as the oil tank warms up as the saw is used and that warms the oil. If anything, that reinforces the notion of letting your saw warm up before you start cutting. Engine oil, on the other hand, is constantly recycled within an engine and must flow easily to maintain the thin film needed to lubricate parts. In the simple flat head small engine in the video a gear driven dipper/slinger throws oil up into the workings of the engine repeatedly and with the lack of anti-foaming additives the bar oil foamed. Motor oil will foam also if you over fill the oil.

Another consideration is that mineral oil does not absorb water whereas motor oil will. As such bar oil can be left open to the air indefinitely without absorbing moisture... thus it is likely better for preventing oxidation of the bar and chain. 

Also consider the environmental issues... I often cut in watershed and wetland areas that are regulated by water supply, state conservation, and federal regulations as well as by some land trusts. In some locales vegetable based bar and chain oil is required. From what I've found it appears that new motor oil takes longer to degrade in the environment than new mineral oil. On top of that, used motor oil can, and often does, contain toxic chemicals and heavy metals. Depending on how deep your aquafer is the base oil, additives, and heavy metals can also make their way into your well water. 

I'm sure there are folks on this board who can give more detailed chemical and physical structure descriptions than my layman's descriptions... perhaps they will join in?

All that said, I'm sticking with "real" "name brand" bar oil. It's a safer bet all the way around even if it does cost a few dollars more... That said, I'm heading out now to pick up another 4 gallons of Woodcutter and Stihl synthetic mix oil as there is a lot of ice storm damage cutting in my near future... including this afternoon!


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## sb47 (Feb 16, 2022)

All you used oil haters can kiss my (well you know)
I have been using old motor oil for many years in the same saw with the same bar and still going strong. No issues what so ever.
You say it will wear a bar faster! Well a bar only cost 40 bucks on average. So say it does cause extra wear. Even at 6 bucks for the cheapest bar oil known to man. It is still cheaper to use old motor oil and replace a bar from time to time then spend all that money on bar oil.
As for the environment, cars drip oil on the roads all day every day, and mother nature kindly deposes of it.
Oil is a natural product of mother earth and she knows how to deal with it.
As for breathing it, your out doors and are more likely to breath the exhaust fumes then bar oil vapor.
So don't be hating on me for being smart enough not to spend good money on new bar oil when used motor has served me well for almost 20 years now.


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## cookies (Feb 16, 2022)

Another FYI even new engine oil contains several toxic metals and chemicals for anti wear, detergency and viscosity modifiers. Engine oil is mineral oil , synthetic engine oil is ester usually blended with mineral and or pao oils. ester oils biodegrade faster than mineral oils. here is a great explanation on oils. https://bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-synthetic-lubricants/


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Feb 16, 2022)

sb47 said:


> All you used oil haters can kiss my (well you know)
> I have been using old motor oil for many years in the same saw with the same bar and still going strong. No issues what so ever.
> You say it will wear a bar faster! Well a bar only cost 40 bucks on average. So say it does cause extra wear. Even at 6 bucks for the cheapest bar oil known to man. It is still cheaper to use old motor oil and replace a bar from time to time then spend all that money on bar oil.
> As for the environment, cars drip oil on the roads all day every day, and mother nature kindly deposes of it.
> ...



Nobody is hating on you....I haven't seen a post lately telling you not to do it...

I've seen a post or 12 from you in every thread that even remotely mentions bar and chain oil saying the same thing you say every single post....we get it, you use motor oil. Nobody cares.


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

cookies said:


> tid bit of info
> the majority of oil used to be 5w or 10w-30, meaning the oil is 30 weight (most bar oil is 30 weight), now the majority used in engines is 20, 0 or 40 weight, transmission fluids are typically 5 weight. When drained and stored as used oil they all get mixed together, when done correctly they are put through the same process as crude oil (distilled) to extract fuels and separate the oil weights by grade. It is considered virgin oil after this process. Recycled used oil is simply filtered, tested for ph, viscosity and additives added then modified to meet api standards and viscosity standards.
> Over the years more than one company tried selling recycled engine oil, problem was it cooked off rapidly requiring constant topping off as the excessive additives burned out of it thus negating the lower price. If I learn of a suitable tackifier easily available or easily made I would switch to 5 gallon buckets of hydraulic oil or even filtered used engine/hydraulic oil.


I've personally never seen recycled oil being sold.
And as you mentioned and I alluded to earlier there are different processes to recycle used oil.


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Well,, Project Farm basically tested Stihl red (or orange??) jug against 10W-30 ,,, WE WILL NOT LIKE THE RESULTS!!
> (The test is kinda backward of the test we actually want)
> 
> _*(If we want the different bar oils tested against each other someone will have to send Project Farm the request to do that,,*_
> ...



That guys test are always a joke.


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

cookies said:


> Another FYI even new engine oil contains several toxic metals and chemicals for anti wear, detergency and viscosity modifiers. Engine oil is mineral oil , synthetic engine oil is ester usually blended with mineral and or pao oils. ester oils biodegrade faster than mineral oils. here is a great explanation on oils. https://bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-synthetic-lubricants/


Most syn engine oils contain either just a little ester or none at all now a days.


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Nobody is hating on you....I haven't seen a post lately telling you not to do it...
> 
> I've seen a post or 12 from you in every thread that even remotely mentions bar and chain oil saying the same thing you say every single post....we get it, you use motor oil. Nobody cares.


Exactly. I could care less if one uses a known carcinogen as bar oil. In America everyone has a choice to be a fool or not.
What the guy wants is for others to validate his foolishness.


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## SweetMK (Feb 16, 2022)

bwalker said:


> That guys test are always a joke.


Maybe,, but, he is making more $$,$$$ making videos that we are by typing on a forum..
so, I appreciate his creativity.. Money is the name of the game for his videos,, not technically perfect tests.
and ,, he KNOWS how to entertain, and bring viewers back,, OVER,, and OVER!!


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Maybe,, but, he is making more $$,$$$ making videos that we are by typing on a forum..
> so, I appreciate his creativity.. Money is the name of the game for his videos,, not technically perfect tests.
> and ,, he KNOWS how to entertain, and bring viewers back,, OVER,, and OVER!!


That's neither here nor there. The guy is a joke and that people watches his stuff just proves the average person in this country is a moron.


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## Fatherwheels (Feb 16, 2022)

Somesawguy said:


> I can get a gallon of generic bar oil at TSC for $6 and Stihl wants $15. Is there anything that much better about the Stihl that's worth the price?
> 
> I have a MS290, and I've been running the Stihl oil exclusively in the past, but now that it's out of warranty, I don't want to be wasting money on it.
> 
> ...


There are many bar oils made by others that are just as good as Stihl or Husky offerings, Milling should separate out the good from the bad.
My latest purchase was 2/3 the cost of the Stihl bar oil, am happy with it too.


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## Fatherwheels (Feb 16, 2022)

demographic said:


> Here the Stihl oil is comedy (and I'm not laughing) price so I buy Oregon oil which is far and away cheaper and does the same job.





spacemule said:


> Except for the little fact that we're talking about yuppies walking by the sensibly priced stuff in order to throw away an extra 4 dollars. "Time is money" simply doesn't apply.


Time is indeed money, especially when you throw money / aka time away just for a label.


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## Fatherwheels (Feb 16, 2022)

THALL10326 said:


> If 2 or 3 dollars is gonna break your wallet don't waste my time,haha. Space there are tons of people that will order across the country, ride 30 miles, run all over town trying to save a buck. I say have at it. Time spent waiting and running around adds up to more than if they had just picked up a bottle of oil and went on. My yuppies driving those BMW's know that, time is money baby!!!!


I think just like you, that's why I keep the 2 or 3 dollars in my wallet, so I don't break my wallet, if it aint broke don't fix it. Lots of people have money, they don't get it by throwing it away a few dollars at a time, Stihl and every other big corporation have lots of bean counters too, they are well aware not to pay over the odds for anything, sure they even build saws in China to save beans.


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2022)

bwalker said:


> That's neither here nor there. The guy is a joke and that people watches his stuff just proves the average person in this country is a moron.



I don't think his videos are a joke. While I think many of them could be improved quite a bit, he also does some really good tests. His test on pocket knives was kinda lame, and didn't really address why some folks might prefer a big heavy knife over a skinny light one, but it totally exposed the relative hardness of the various knives tested, and the strength of their locking features.

The bar oil video, for example, clearly showed that motor oil (new) lubricates better than bar oil. Given that it generally costs a whole lot more per gallon, that makes a lot of sense. 

One of you guys should put in a request to test for 10w-30 to be tested vs used motor oil vs bar oil.
_I couldn't figure out how to make the request_.
I guess we'll see if that happens.


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## Brettl (Feb 16, 2022)

I worked with a climber that insisted on using his own saws. All Stihl commercial grade. He was 50 years old and had been doing this from the time he was a young man. He used no-name bar oil. He said he'd never experienced any kind of wear that would justify expensive bar oil, even though he was a die-hard Stihl man.
I've used cheap bar oils for decades and have never had pre-mature wear. I currently use Atwoods house brand for $7.49 a gallon.


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## Brufab (Feb 16, 2022)

Anyone use xtreme brand bar oil? I just bought a gallon of winter grade (20wt) from my local stihl dealer. It's in a orange jug.


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## L34 (Feb 16, 2022)

Dad has bushed and cut fire wood for 60 years.
Only ever used new engine oil.
Never worn out a chain or bar before their time.


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 16, 2022)

Rural King bar oil at $7 a gallon works for me. I am not spending nearly twice that because it says "Stihl" on it.


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## bwalker (Feb 16, 2022)

Brettl said:


> I worked with a climber that insisted on using his own saws. All Stihl commercial grade. He was 50 years old and had been doing this from the time he was a young man. He used no-name bar oil. He said he'd never experienced any kind of wear that would justify expensive bar oil, even though he was a die-hard Stihl man.
> I've used cheap bar oils for decades and have never had pre-mature wear. I currently use Atwoods house brand for $7.49 a gallon.


Cheap bar oil is good bar oil IMO. When I logged pretty much all I used was Walmart Supertech or Cam2 from Menards when it went on sale.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 16, 2022)

Depends where I buy it, the mountain stores only have Stihl brand. If I need it when I’m up there, it’s still way cheaper than running to the big city. I need to make a note to buy some down here.


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## Harmon (Feb 16, 2022)

Ten years of commercial tree service and we only used the cheapest bar oil wal mart sold - in the early 2000's it was Poulan brand (it had a green jug!) and every other week we'd go in there and fill up a shopping cart and you never knew what was going to come out when you took of the lid. Sometimes it was red and kind of runny- worked great in the cold- sometimes it was pretty thick and smelled like sulphur - oiled the chain just fine - so my guess is whenever some oil packaging plant has a batch of say ATF or gear oil or whatever oil that has to meet standards fail whatever tests they use, it winds up on the shelf of the Anchorage wal mart in a bar oil jug. 

Currently in our little town out of five retailers that stock bar oil, the orange jug at the dealer is cheapest and I dont know why. Cheaper still is a no name gallon of 15w40. When the hardware store went to $20 for their Ace Hardware oil, I just assumed the stihl dealer was even more expensive. All my drain oil goes to the waste oil heater at the shop that helps me out from time to time.


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## Smitty Smithsonite (Feb 16, 2022)

Todd (Project Farm) is a good dude. I've chatted with him many times in the comments of his vids. Just a hard worker like the rest of us, except he found a much needed niche that Google compensates him extremely well for. He turned me on to Diablo cutoff wheels - I've tried just about every single brand out there and haven't been impressed. When the Diablo won his shootout, I bought some. He wasn't lying - these things last at LEAST 2x longer than ANYTHING I've used before. I run a small shop out of my property. I've cut hundreds of bolts, exhausts, hardened steel bearing races, you name it. He also got me to buy a Audew jump pack after that won the jump pack shootout. I've started DIESELS with NO BATTERY with this thing! I don't know about you, but I think that's friggin impressive! Thing is 1/100th the size of that cart charger I bought at Sears 20 years ago! Cost less than half what I paid for it, too. What a time saver when I can drive a vehicle up instead of winching. I even winched a Lexus RX350 onto my dovetail trailer on a hill, TWICE (winch failure caused it to roll backwards until I slammed the freespool selector back in gear) with a dead deep cycle battery using this pack!! Has to draw at least 200A under load! When I got the vehicle up there the 2nd time, it wouldn't work anymore. Contacted the company, and they sent me out a replacement set of clamps with the little computer gizmo inside that plugs into the jump pack itself. Been working great since! I've driven cars home with no battery just clamping this thing in (just have to use electrical tape so you don't burn the vehicle to the ground, lol). Several other products he tested that won other shootouts I had already been using for years, and his all his test results matched my experiences to a tee. Just my .02.

As far as saw oil contaminating anything ... if the general public knew the scale of oil dumped every day on construction projects, they'd drop and convulse! One blown hydraulic line on a big excavator can blast 5 gallons into the dirt faster than you can blink! Happens every single day on every single project all over the country at some point. I used to drive recycling trucks in a big city - I've laid down the contents of a 55 gallon drum myself over the course of 5 years, just due to leaks and hose failures. Typical big company - let things go until they fail. I've dumped at least 10 gallons on my own property in one season, thanks to my 60+ year old backhoe between leaks and hose failures. Who knows how many the previous owner did - there was a rainbow sheen on the swamp out back here for the first 15 years I lived here. He got his tractor stuck over there cleaning up the property for me before the sale date, so I know that's where it came from. Add up how many cars and heavy trucks drip all types of petroleum products on the highway, and it's probably a 55 gallon drum per mile on EVERY expressway in America. Chainsaws are MINISCULE in this arena. I guarantee any water that comes out of ANY well has petroleum products in it at some level. It's unavoidable. People are still living to be 90, so it's not as big of an issue as the powers that be would have you believe. Bacteria and natural breakdown dispose of oil faster than most think, too.

As far as my saws go, I run cheap Poulan oil bought by the gallon from Walmart (same stuff Harmon was just talking about!). The stuff barely moves in this weather, but it still keeps the chain wet. If I didn't burn used motor oil for heat, I'd probably use it in the saw, too.


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 16, 2022)

sb47 said:


> Engine oil is much more critical then bar oil and there are plenty of recycled motor oils on the market that are cheap. Why would that not translate to bar oil as well? Even if bar oil fails it;s not the same as a motor failing. Replacing a bar,chain and sprocket is not the same as replacing a motor.
> Why would you think they only use virgin oil to make cheap bar oil?


Engine failing? since there are no motors on chainsaw........have you ever seen a filthy saw, coated with black? Pull the clutch and inspect the oil system...its worn out from being fed cheap lube, by a cheapskate operator....


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 16, 2022)

Smitty Smithsonite said:


> Todd (Project Farm) is a good dude. I've chatted with him many times in the comments of his vids. Just a hard worker like the rest of us, except he found a much needed niche that Google compensates him extremely well for. He turned me on to Diablo cutoff wheels - I've tried just about every single brand out there and haven't been impressed. When the Diablo won his shootout, I bought some. He wasn't lying - these things last at LEAST 2x longer than ANYTHING I've used before. I run a small shop out of my property. I've cut hundreds of bolts, exhausts, hardened steel bearing races, you name it. He also got me to buy a Audew jump pack after that won the jump pack shootout. I've started DIESELS with NO BATTERY with this thing! I don't know about you, but I think that's friggin impressive! Thing is 1/100th the size of that cart charger I bought at Sears 20 years ago! Cost less than half what I paid for it, too. What a time saver when I can drive a vehicle up instead of winching. I even winched a Lexus RX350 onto my dovetail trailer on a hill, TWICE (winch failure caused it to roll backwards until I slammed the freespool selector back in gear) with a dead deep cycle battery using this pack!! Has to draw at least 200A under load! When I got the vehicle up there the 2nd time, it wouldn't work anymore. Contacted the company, and they sent me out a replacement set of clamps with the little computer gizmo inside that plugs into the jump pack itself. Been working great since! I've driven cars home with no battery just clamping this thing in (just have to use electrical tape so you don't burn the vehicle to the ground, lol). Several other products he tested that won other shootouts I had already been using for years, and his all his test results matched my experiences to a tee. Just my .02.
> 
> As far as saw oil contaminating anything ... if the general public knew the scale of oil dumped every day on construction projects, they'd drop and convulse! One blown hydraulic line on a big excavator can blast 5 gallons into the dirt faster than you can blink! Happens every single day on every single project all over the country at some point. I used to drive recycling trucks in a big city - I've laid down the contents of a 55 gallon drum myself over the course of 5 years, just due to leaks and hose failures. Typical big company - let things go until they fail. I've dumped at least 10 gallons on my own property in one season, thanks to my 60+ year old backhoe between leaks and hose failures. Who knows how many the previous owner did - there was a rainbow sheen on the swamp out back here for the first 15 years I lived here. He got his tractor stuck over there cleaning up the property for me before the sale date, so I know that's where it came from. Add up how many cars and heavy trucks drip all types of petroleum products on the highway, and it's probably a 55 gallon drum per mile on EVERY expressway in America. Chainsaws are MINISCULE in this arena. I guarantee any water that comes out of ANY well has petroleum products in it at some level. It's unavoidable. People are still living to be 90, so it's not as big of an issue as the powers that be would have you believe. Bacteria and natural breakdown dispose of oil faster than most think, too.
> 
> As far as my saws go, I run cheap Poulan oil bought by the gallon from Walmart (same stuff Harmon was just talking about!). The stuff barely moves in this weather, but it still keeps the chain wet. If I didn't burn used motor oil for heat, I'd probably use it in the saw, too.


As soon as I saw 250 words, I stopped. What are you talking about?


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2022)

Stuff that takes longer to convey than 250 words.

Why would you ask someone to explain what you admit you didn't read? _Just go back and read it._


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## Brufab (Feb 16, 2022)

L34 said:


> Dad has bushed and cut fire wood for 60 years.
> Only ever used new engine oil.
> Never worn out a chain or bar before their time.


I've used the new engine oil in winter when it was super cold out if I didn't have winter grade. Worked great standard 30wt or 10/30 5/30. Sometimes it can be had cheap at box stores on clearance in the jugs of odd ball oil or discontinued stuff


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2022)

Captain Bruce said:


> Engine failing? since there are no motors on chainsaw........have you ever seen a filthy saw, coated with black? Pull the clutch and inspect the oil system...its worn out from being fed cheap lube, by a cheapskate operator....



Silly assumptions. There are no indications anywhere in the repair market that I have seen that suggest cheap bar oil causes your oil pump to wear out. As to "coated in black"? That only happens with used motor oil.

Did you stop to think that internal combustion engines are commonly called motors? You are unwise to criticize someone for referring to a chainsaw "motor". Don't argue with me about that, either. It will get very embarrassing, very quickly.

And... I have a chainsaw with a motor, BTW. So they do exist. _Commonly, in fact._


----------



## SweetMK (Feb 16, 2022)

My most used chainsaw has a "motor",,,







The 660 Magnum has not had its chain sharpened in 5 years because of this motor,,


----------



## SweetMK (Feb 16, 2022)

As far as oil contamination,,,
I worked with a guy, he complained to the city where he lived,, about his water.
EVERY day, they would see an oil sheen on the water in the toilets in the house.

He assumed the oil was coming in with the city-supplied water.

Well, the city engineer came to his home, and did some tests.
A week later, the guy got a letter from the city.

What was happening is ,, every time a toilet is flushed, some air is sucked in from the vent pipe on the roof of the house.
This home was just about 1 mile north of Interstate 81 (the interstate is oriented east-west for about 20 miles)

The diesel fumes from the interstate were drawn into the roof vent pipe.

Even at one mile away, this home was able to draw in enough oil out of the air through a vent stack,, 
that the oil could form a sheen in the toilet.

I told him to sell, and move, his health is worth more than the cost of moving..
He stayed in the house,,,


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 17, 2022)

I don't doubt that's what some city engineer told him, but that wasn't the source of the oil in his toilet.

Sewer vents are for the release of sewer gases, and only rarely does a large water discharge create suction on the vent. Even if it did, the water trap built into the toilet would prevent oily air from entering the user-side of the toilet. Suction pulling air from any source into the house still wouldn't make it to the toilet.

Maybe he had sewer rats covered in vegetable oil climbing out of the toilet. _Or more likely, someone in the house had steatorrhea.











Steatorrhea - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf






www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov









Steatorrhea - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




_


----------



## L34 (Feb 17, 2022)

People say bar oil is cheap.
I know I can buy 4L of 10w/30 cheap engine oil cheaper than I can buy 4L of bar oil here downunder.


----------



## mountainguyed67 (Feb 17, 2022)

Captain Bruce said:


> As soon as I saw 250 words, I stopped. What are you talking about?



I read 42 words before I moved on. Ha!


----------



## sb47 (Feb 17, 2022)

Captain Bruce said:


> Engine failing? since there are no motors on chainsaw........have you ever seen a filthy saw, coated with black? Pull the clutch and inspect the oil system...its worn out from being fed cheap lube, by a cheapskate operator....


Your opinion means nothing to me, because I have been using old motor oil in all my saws for about 18 years now without one single failure. I have a ms290 that is over 15 years old and still on the original bar. I run that saw almost everyday. It has many hundreds of hours on it. I cut, split and sell over 100 cords a year. I also run that saw in very large oak up to 48'' logs. If old motor is so bad, you would think it would show up after all these years, but that has not happened. 
You say cheapskate, I say smart. I think some people are just fooling themselves or are so uppity that they are ashamed they have been duped into thinking using old oil is somehow bad. 
I know for a fact I am not alone and there are many people that use old oil for bar oil and have not had any issues. I do this for a living and my equipment are my money makers. What is the worst that can happen? You prematurely wear out a bar or sprocket. Those parts are cheap compared to the high cost of bar oil.


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## Hermio (Feb 17, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Why would you have that feeling. I would honestly be supprised if any of them are recycled engine oil. For something like bar oil it's probably cheaper to make it from virgin oil.


Engine oil does not have the tackiness or viscosity of bar oil. I use TSC bar oil; usually less than $10/gallon. My bars last for at least 10 chains being worn out. Then I get the bars swaged and ground to extend their life 4-5 times.


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## SweetMK (Feb 17, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> I don't doubt that's what some city engineer told him, but that wasn't the source of the oil in his toilet.
> 
> Sewer vents are for the release of sewer gases, and only rarely does a large water discharge create suction on the vent.


If you think the roof vent does not suck air,, put a plug in your roof vent(s) and watch the sinks stop working,,
While the roof vents are plugged, when a sink of water is emptied, all the water will be sucked from the trap
and while the vents are plugged,, watch how the water is sucked out of the toilet bowl EACH time it is flushed.

Absolutely air is sucked in every time (more than a little) water is introduced into the drain,,

We used to watch the Canadian Mike Holmes,, on his show,, Holmes on Homes,, 
about every other episode, someone had an improperly installed (or missing) roof vent,,
Mike was almost famous on his show for saying "Air Follows Water",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## huskihl (Feb 17, 2022)

bwalker said:


> That's neither here nor there. The guy is a joke and that people watches his stuff just proves the average person in this country is a moron.


Don’t hold back. Tell us how you really feel


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## Sawdust Man (Feb 17, 2022)

Stihl Bar Oil- Is it really worth the price?​
No....


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## OM617YOTA (Feb 17, 2022)

Put me in the middle I guess. I'll run the cheapest bar oil I can find, it all works the same as far as I can tell. I won't run used engine oil. I'm not worried about it hurting the bar, chain, or saw at all, I'm more worried about what it'll do to me. I'm cheap, but not that cheap. Y'all have to adjust your cheapness scale to your own liking.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Feb 17, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> If you think the roof vent does not suck air,, put a plug in your roof vent(s) and watch the sinks stop working,,
> While the roof vents are plugged, when a sink of water is emptied, all the water will be sucked from the trap
> and while the vents are plugged,, watch how the water is sucked out of the toilet bowl EACH time it is flushed.
> 
> ...


Even if ALL of that is true, the vent is hooked up to the drain pipe down stream from the toilet. 

HOW is the oil you suggest is getting in through the vent pipe defying gravity and going UP the drain pipe into the bowl of the toilet? 

Also, I lived in a old house without a vent pipe as a kid. Sinks worked fine, tub would burp when draining though. TV is just that TV. They like over dramatization.


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## SweetMK (Feb 17, 2022)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Even if ALL of that is true, the vent is hooked up to the drain pipe down stream from the toilet.
> 
> HOW is the oil you suggest is getting in through the vent pipe defying gravity and going UP the drain pipe into the bowl of the toilet?


Oil floats on water, and coats anything it is in contact with,, the oil will just float past the trap,, over time.

Trust me,, if the plumbing in the old house worked fine,, there was a vent,, somewhere,, 
If you do not "believe",, i told you haw you can test it,, 


Squirrels are notorious for clogging roof vents,, and the homeowner does not know how to fix it,,,


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Feb 17, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Oil floats on water, and coats anything it is in contact with,, the oil will just float past the trap,, over time.
> 
> Trust me,, if the plumbing in the old house worked fine,, there was a vent,, somewhere,,
> If you do not "believe",, i told you haw you can test it,,
> ...


I re-did the entire plumbing system when we remodeled. So no, I won't trust you, because I literally know for a fact that it didn't and you do not. 

Also, I know several people that live within a mile of a major interstate and none have this issue. So...I simply don't believe your story.


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## Brufab (Feb 17, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> If you think the roof vent does not suck air,, put a plug in your roof vent(s) and watch the sinks stop working,,
> While the roof vents are plugged, when a sink of water is emptied, all the water will be sucked from the trap
> and while the vents are plugged,, watch how the water is sucked out of the toilet bowl EACH time it is flushed.
> 
> ...


Maybe a venturi effect?


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## MontanaResident (Feb 17, 2022)

Sawdust Man said:


> Stihl Bar Oil- Is it really worth the price?​
> No....



I just picked up 2 gallons of Black Max B&C oil from Walmart. At $9.98 tis a deal.


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## SS396driver (Feb 17, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> As far as oil contamination,,,
> I worked with a guy, he complained to the city where he lived,, about his water.
> EVERY day, they would see an oil sheen on the water in the toilets in the house.
> 
> ...


Oil out of the air from diesel fumes? If that were true you would have it condensing everywhere. 

I use cheap bar oil or in a pinch I'll use new motor oil. Used motor oil has way to many contaminants for me to use it in good conscience.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 17, 2022)

Some people waste even more money on oil, it would be $23.44 for a gallon this way.


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## camel2019 (Feb 17, 2022)

Stihlman441 said:


> Over here Stihl bar oil is a rip off,its made by Castrol, $140 for 20 litres.


Stihl 2 stroke oil atleast the dinosaur stuff is made by Castrol too or atleast in my case I got a extra warranty on my weed whip for buying a 6 pack


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## OM617YOTA (Feb 17, 2022)

mountainguyed67 said:


> Some people waste even more money on oil, it would be $23.44 for a gallon this way.
> 
> View attachment 965830


Not a waste if that's all you need. Lots of homeowners make three cuts per year and that's it. They heat their house by pushing a button on the wall.


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## MontanaResident (Feb 17, 2022)

OM617YOTA said:


> Not a waste if that's all you need. Lots of homeowners make three cuts per year and that's it. They heat their house by pushing a button on the wall.



Same with premix gas. Crazy expensive, but might be just the thing for very occasional users.


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## Brufab (Feb 17, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> Same with premix gas. Crazy expensive, but might be just the thing for very occasional users.


I like the premix quart cans, I refill them all the time from my big can


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## OM617YOTA (Feb 17, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> Same with premix gas. Crazy expensive, but might be just the thing for very occasional users.


Yup, that's me, I run premix. Burn ~2 gallons per year max, and may not fire up a saw until doing firewood again the next year. $40/yr for a complete elimination of carb and fuel problems is money well spent for me.


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## camel2019 (Feb 17, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> Same with premix gas. Crazy expensive, but might be just the thing for very occasional users.


I run it in my saws and other 2 stroke equipment when I'm putting it away for a while the rest of the time they all get premium at either 50 to 1 for the new stuff or 32 to 1 for the old stuff


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## bwalker (Feb 17, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Stihl 2 stroke oil atleast the dinosaur stuff is made by Castrol too or atleast in my case I got a extra warranty on my weed whip for buying a 6 pack


Castrol only makes stihls Canadian stuff.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 17, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Castrol only makes stihls Canadian stuff.


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## camel2019 (Feb 17, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Castrol only makes stihls Canadian stuff.


Idk the dealer wanted me to buy synthetic but it gives me headaches so I grabbed dino. haven't bought any since I use Canadian tire brand haven't had issues with it when I get a good year I go through alot of mix.


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## bwalker (Feb 17, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Idk the dealer wanted me to buy synthetic but it gives me headaches so I grabbed dino. haven't bought any since I use Canadian tire brand haven't had issues with it when I get a good year I go through alot of mix.


The synthetic is Stihl Ultra. It's garbage and the worst oil ever marketed towards saw users.


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## wstan101 (Feb 17, 2022)

Smitty Smithsonite said:


> Todd (Project Farm) is a good dude. I've chatted with him many times in the comments of his vids. Just a hard worker like the rest of us, except he found a much needed niche that Google compensates him extremely well for. He turned me on to Diablo cutoff wheels - I've tried just about every single brand out there and haven't been impressed. When the Diablo won his shootout, I bought some. He wasn't lying - these things last at LEAST 2x longer than ANYTHING I've used before. I run a small shop out of my property. I've cut hundreds of bolts, exhausts, hardened steel bearing races, you name it. He also got me to buy a Audew jump pack after that won the jump pack shootout. I've started DIESELS with NO BATTERY with this thing! I don't know about you, but I think that's friggin impressive! Thing is 1/100th the size of that cart charger I bought at Sears 20 years ago! Cost less than half what I paid for it, too. What a time saver when I can drive a vehicle up instead of winching. I even winched a Lexus RX350 onto my dovetail trailer on a hill, TWICE (winch failure caused it to roll backwards until I slammed the freespool selector back in gear) with a dead deep cycle battery using this pack!! Has to draw at least 200A under load! When I got the vehicle up there the 2nd time, it wouldn't work anymore. Contacted the company, and they sent me out a replacement set of clamps with the little computer gizmo inside that plugs into the jump pack itself. Been working great since! I've driven cars home with no battery just clamping this thing in (just have to use electrical tape so you don't burn the vehicle to the ground, lol). Several other products he tested that won other shootouts I had already been using for years, and his all his test results matched my experiences to a tee. Just my .02.
> 
> As far as saw oil contaminating anything ... if the general public knew the scale of oil dumped every day on construction projects, they'd drop and convulse! One blown hydraulic line on a big excavator can blast 5 gallons into the dirt faster than you can blink! Happens every single day on every single project all over the country at some point. I used to drive recycling trucks in a big city - I've laid down the contents of a 55 gallon drum myself over the course of 5 years, just due to leaks and hose failures. Typical big company - let things go until they fail. I've dumped at least 10 gallons on my own property in one season, thanks to my 60+ year old backhoe between leaks and hose failures. Who knows how many the previous owner did - there was a rainbow sheen on the swamp out back here for the first 15 years I lived here. He got his tractor stuck over there cleaning up the property for me before the sale date, so I know that's where it came from. Add up how many cars and heavy trucks drip all types of petroleum products on the highway, and it's probably a 55 gallon drum per mile on EVERY expressway in America. Chainsaws are MINISCULE in this arena. I guarantee any water that comes out of ANY well has petroleum products in it at some level. It's unavoidable. People are still living to be 90, so it's not as big of an issue as the powers that be would have you believe. Bacteria and natural breakdown dispose of oil faster than most think, too.
> 
> As far as my saws go, I run cheap Poulan oil bought by the gallon from Walmart (same stuff Harmon was just talking about!). The stuff barely moves in this weather, but it still keeps the chain wet. If I didn't burn used motor oil for heat, I'd probably use it in the saw, too.


I thought I would chime in here and add my 2 cents, I was a logger for 30 years and having run multiple true west coast muscle saws I used and still use STP with ATF for bar oil. Have never looked back, this combination has held up to all environments seen here in the pacific northwest. I simply adjust the mixture accordingly to temperatures from 100 degrees in the summer to well below freezing in the winter and outside used motor oil it is the most affordable bar lube you can use.


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## camel2019 (Feb 17, 2022)

bwalker said:


> The synthetic is Stihl Ultra. It's garbage and the worst oil ever marketed towards saw users.


As long as it's dino oil for saws and weed whips I run it. I got stuff that was made to use 30 weight so just about any is better then that.


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## SweetMK (Feb 18, 2022)

bwalker said:


> The synthetic is Stihl Ultra. It's garbage and the worst oil ever marketed towards saw users.


Good scientific data there,,, 

You know words like garbage, and morons,, give real insight to your thoughts,, Thanks for the input.


----------



## Tomos770 (Feb 18, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Good scientific data there,,,
> 
> You know words like garbage, and morons,, give real insight to your thoughts,, Thanks for the input.








Piston scorch marks Advice


Hey y'all, I have two ms-261's that are both showing some scorch marks at the top of the piston on the exhaust side. They still seem to be running well and have good compression (by feel not with a gauge), and I can't see any scoring in the cylinder or on the piston. My question is, now that...




www.arboristsite.com


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Good scientific data there,,,
> 
> You know words like garbage, and morons,, give real insight to your thoughts,, Thanks for the input.


Plenty of anecdotal evidence out there, which as it pertains to the chainsaw world is as good as it gets.
It's garbage!


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

Was digging around the net tonight looking at different studies of the Carcinogenic potential ofnused oil and stumbled on the quote posted below.

"Exposure to mineral oils is strongly associated with an increased risk of nonmelanoma skin cancer, particularly of the scrotum."

It's all fun and games until your balls become one big cancerous mass.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

wstan101 said:


> I thought I would chime in here and add my 2 cents, I was a logger for 30 years and having run multiple true west coast muscle saws I used and still use STP with ATF for bar oil. Have never looked back, this combination has held up to all environments seen here in the pacific northwest. I simply adjust the mixture accordingly to temperatures from 100 degrees in the summer to well below freezing in the winter and outside used motor oil it is the most affordable bar lube you can use.


If your adding STP to ATF your just using something that cost more than bar oil and may or may not work any better.


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## Cricket (Feb 18, 2022)

Harmon said:


> Ten years of commercial tree service and we only used the cheapest bar oil wal mart sold - in the early 2000's it was Poulan brand (it had a green jug!) and every other week we'd go in there and fill up a shopping cart and you never knew what was going to come out when you took of the lid. Sometimes it was red and kind of runny- worked great in the cold- sometimes it was pretty thick and smelled like sulphur - oiled the chain just fine - so my guess is whenever some oil packaging plant has a batch of say ATF or gear oil or whatever oil that has to meet standards fail whatever tests they use, it winds up on the shelf of the Anchorage wal mart in a bar oil jug.
> 
> Currently in our little town out of five retailers that stock bar oil, the orange jug at the dealer is cheapest and I dont know why. Cheaper still is a no name gallon of 15w40. When the hardware store went to $20 for their Ace Hardware oil, I just assumed the stihl dealer was even more expensive. All my drain oil goes to the waste oil heater at the shop that helps me out from time to time.


Advantage to farm country -


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## Cricket (Feb 18, 2022)

mountainguyed67 said:


> Some people waste even more money on oil, it would be $23.44 for a gallon this way.
> 
> View attachment 965830


Ego (makers of my battery saw) wants fourteen something *for 32 freakin' ounces!!*

There's what's apparently a local brand - "Lumberman's" or some such, I forget exactly - that's like six bucks a gallon, and available in every local gas station. That's what's available when most of the local users of chainsaws are Dutch farmers.


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## SweetMK (Feb 18, 2022)

I was thinking about the recycled oil,,
With transportation costs, risks, and insurance,, the slow process of prep to resell, possible water or gas etc contamination,,
it is more than likely that new crude made into chainsaw oil would be cheaper than recycled..

I would bet most used oil is simply burned in some type of furnace,, much like a local generating facility uses wood chips as fuel.

A local cement plant wanted to use tires as fuel,, but, the stack contamination due to alloying and plating on the steel cords stopped that.

Heck, they wanted permission to put TONS of cadmium and nickel into the air each year,,

I guess used oil poses similar problems.
About a decade or so ago, some heating oil company (in NY,, I believe) was dumping used motor oil into the heating oil,, and selling it.
The heating oil company was being paid a disposal fee,, then turning around and selling the oil as heating oil.
I would bet that you could add 5% or 10% used oil to fuel oil,, and it would burn perfectly.

IIRC,, there was jail-time involved when those guys got caught.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 18, 2022)

Cricket said:


> "Lumberman's" or some such, I forget exactly - that's like six bucks a gallon, and available in every local gas station.



A gas station sells bar & chain oil? New one on me.


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

mountainguyed67 said:


> View attachment 965862


Thats awesome I hope it wasn't meant as a insult towards anyone. It looks just like me minus the  flag.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 18, 2022)

Brufab said:


> I hope it wasn't meant as a insult towards anyone.



Nope, I was just looking for the bar & chain oil in the picture...


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

That's funny


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 18, 2022)

Brufab said:


> That's funny



Laughter is the best medicine.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 18, 2022)

Brufab said:


> Thats awesome I hope it wasn't meant as a insult towards anyone. It looks just like me minus the  flag.


Nah BF is a Canucklehead once removed ! 


bwalker said:


> Was digging around the net tonight looking at different studies of the Carcinogenic potential ofnused oil and stumbled on the quote posted below.
> 
> "Exposure to mineral oils is strongly associated with an increased risk of nonmelanoma skin cancer, particularly of the scrotum."
> 
> It's all fun and games until your balls become one big cancerous mass.


Mineral oil has always been a polyaromatic hydrocarbon health concern , recognized carcinogen & suspected mutgen . Interesting that it is routinely within the ingredients of numerous lip balms , moisturizing creams & baby oils . Further interesting is that has very little actual moisturizing effect , rather is more effective as a barrier as in petroleum jelly for protection of a baby's bottom from diaper rash . Yeah , refrain from rubbing it on the family jewels !


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

I've been north of Winnipeg on the red River for monster catfish also to Ontario for fly in fishing for walleye and pike. Some of the best sheephead fishing there too a 2-3 kilo beast on every cast


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## North by Northwest (Feb 18, 2022)

cookies said:


> And this thread is more valid than ever since even the cheap bar oil is up over 14 bucks and name brand is at or approaching 20. It would be great to have several bar oil brands tested by blackstone oil testing labs to see the differences in additives and concentrations as that resource is now available.


The biggest advantage of dedicated bar oil is the tacifiers that reduce the fling off . In a pinch unused low temperature automotive oils work adequately . ATF has also been used routinely . However there are numerous dedicated & cost effective bar oils out there that probably much more efficient & healthy long term !


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

I imagine the tackifiers help reduce the amount of oil in the air


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

The motor oil I use in a pinch seems to fling off more than standard bar oil


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## huskihl (Feb 18, 2022)

Brufab said:


> I've been north of Winnipeg on the red River for monster catfish also to Ontario for fly in fishing for walleye and pike. Some of the best sheephead fishing there too a 2-3 kilo beast on every cast


Been to the marsh just north of there many times duck hunting. Water level came up 4’ and we went out scouting new areas. Hit a 12lb walleye right on top of the head with the prop. Ate good that night


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

Yea reports out of the saginaw bay are good fishing but Ice is sketchy. Are you in the u.p or just northern lower? Was wondering about snow reports for ogemaw County area


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## huskihl (Feb 18, 2022)

Brufab said:


> Yea reports out of the saginaw bay are good fishing but Ice is sketchy. Are you in the u.p or just northern lower? Was wondering about snow reports for ogemaw County area


I’m 1.5 hours sw of the bridge. Half hour west of Gaylord


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

Alot of lake effect snow I'm guessing over that way


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## huskihl (Feb 18, 2022)

Brufab said:


> Alot of lake effect snow I'm guessing over that way


Yeah we’re in it.


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## rtrsam (Feb 18, 2022)

For years I'd buy bar oil in bulk 55 gallon drums, don't recall the brand name of it. Once as we were getting two drums dropped off, I mentioned to another fellow, "You know, every drop of this stuff is gonna get sprayed around out in the woods. If we spilled that much we'd be in trouble." Something to think about when using waste oil. 

On the other hand I used to have heavy equipment operators who would get 5 gallon jugs of hydraulic oil. They'd dump a gallon or two into a machine, then the rest of the can would sit in the back of their service truck getting dust and water on it when it rained. So next time they needed to top of a half million dollar machine, they always wanted a new can of oil. And the old can with three or four gallons in it would sit in the shop. 

After we accumulated a couple dozen of those I started rotating it in for bar oil. I figured, it wasn't used, it might have a little dust or water in it but no more than you'd expect from a refilling process. Worked fine, and got rid of a bunch of hydraulic oil.


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## bkellyusa (Feb 18, 2022)

rtrsam said:


> For years I'd buy bar oil in bulk 55 gallon drums, don't recall the brand name of it. Once as we were getting two drums dropped off, I mentioned to another fellow, "You know, every drop of this stuff is gonna get sprayed around out in the woods. If we spilled that much we'd be in trouble." Something to think about when using waste oil.
> 
> On the other hand I used to have heavy equipment operators who would get 5 gallon jugs of hydraulic oil. They'd dump a gallon or two into a machine, then the rest of the can would sit in the back of their service truck getting dust and water on it when it rained. So next time they needed to top of a half million dollar machine, they always wanted a new can of oil. And the old can with three or four gallons in it would sit in the shop.
> 
> After we accumulated a couple dozen of those I started rotating it in for bar oil. I figured, it wasn't used, it might have a little dust or water in it but no more than you'd expect from a refilling process. Worked fine, and got rid of a bunch of hydraulic oil.


----------



## mountainguyed67 (Feb 18, 2022)

rtrsam said:


> For years I'd buy bar oil in bulk 55 gallon drums, don't recall the brand name of it. Once as we were getting two drums dropped off, I mentioned to another fellow, "You know, every drop of this stuff is gonna get sprayed around out in the woods. If we spilled that much we'd be in trouble." Something to think about when using waste oil.
> 
> On the other hand I used to have heavy equipment operators who would get 5 gallon jugs of hydraulic oil. They'd dump a gallon or two into a machine, then the rest of the can would sit in the back of their service truck getting dust and water on it when it rained. So next time they needed to top of a half million dollar machine, they always wanted a new can of oil. And the old can with three or four gallons in it would sit in the shop.
> 
> After we accumulated a couple dozen of those I started rotating it in for bar oil. I figured, it wasn't used, it might have a little dust or water in it but no more than you'd expect from a refilling process. Worked fine, and got rid of a bunch of hydraulic oil.



It’s not that difficult to clean a can.


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## bkellyusa (Feb 18, 2022)

When it comes to bar oil I have generally used the brand that manufactured the saw. My reasoning was that I figured that the factory had designed it to meter out of the oil pump correctly for their saws and that has seemed true for me. However, nowadays, my saws oiling systems are adjustable so that's not much of a concern any more.

Myself I wouldn't use any type of oil that wasn't designed for chainsaws. Motor oil for example doesn't have the necessary tackifiers in it to make the oil stick to the chain while spinning even at lower RPM's.

The real problem with bar oils on a chainsaw is the the lubrication system is a total loss system. For the most part it gets slung off almost as fast as you use it. With that it is very possible that many types of motor oils will seem to work well enough but I think it's still worthwhile to use an oil designed for chainsaws.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

Broken said:


> Nah BF is a Canucklehead once removed !
> 
> Mineral oil has always been a polyaromatic hydrocarbon health concern , recognized carcinogen & suspected mutgen . Interesting that it is routinely within the ingredients of numerous lip balms , moisturizing creams & baby oils . Further interesting is that has very little actual moisturizing effect , rather is more effective as a barrier as in petroleum jelly for protection of a baby's bottom from diaper rash . Yeah , refrain from rubbing it on the family jewels !


Requirments for motor oils have gotten so stringent that these days PAH's are pretty much removed from most oils. Most of the oils actually marketed as synthetic now actually start out as mineral oils, but are so processed they can be called synthetic. They work as well and better than true Synthetics in some cases too. Petro Canada and Chevron make some really great group 3+ base oils for instance.
Of course after you have run them through a motor PAH's contimate the oil from the fuel the motor is ran on and to levels much higher than would typically be found in the base oils back in the day.
As such I wear nitril gloves when dealing with used oil and won't run it as bar oil. I'm exposed to enough nasty chit in my working life that I avoid piling on top of it in my personal life.


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## Batt4Christ (Feb 18, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Good scientific data there,,,
> 
> You know words like garbage, and morons,, give real insight to your thoughts,, Thanks for the input.



I’m trying to figure out how/why Stihl Ultra 2-stroke oil was even brought into this thread - when it is about BAR OIL…. I guess some folks just have an ax to grind and will toss it in to whatever thread they can find…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Batt4Christ (Feb 18, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Was digging around the net tonight looking at different studies of the Carcinogenic potential ofnused oil and stumbled on the quote posted below.
> 
> "Exposure to mineral oils is strongly associated with an increased risk of nonmelanoma skin cancer, particularly of the scrotum."
> 
> It's all fun and games until your balls become one big cancerous mass.



Then don’t be rubbing it on your testicles and you should be good…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Brufab (Feb 18, 2022)

Probly stihl bar oil is a better premix than there silver bottle premix oil.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 18, 2022)

Batt4Christ said:


> I’m trying to figure out how/why Stihl Ultra 2-stroke oil was even brought into this thread - when it is about BAR OIL…. I guess some folks just have an ax to grind and will toss it in to whatever thread they can find…



Are you telling me some threads on this forum stay on topic?


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## pdqdl (Feb 18, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> If you think the roof vent does not suck air,, put a plug in your roof vent(s) and watch the sinks stop working,,
> While the roof vents are plugged, when a sink of water is emptied, all the water will be sucked from the trap
> and while the vents are plugged,, watch how the water is sucked out of the toilet bowl EACH time it is flushed.
> 
> ...



I don't think you understood my response. Whether or not any air with oil gets aspirated into the sewer system of the house is irrelevant. Said air isn't going to go backwards up the p-trap of a toilet.


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## GrizG (Feb 18, 2022)

Batt4Christ said:


> I’m trying to figure out how/why Stihl Ultra 2-stroke oil was even brought into this thread - when it is about BAR OIL…. I guess some folks just have an ax to grind and will toss it in to whatever thread they can find…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


There is an underlying theme of "oil is oil." As such it fits in perfectly.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

Batt4Christ said:


> Then don’t be rubbing it on your testicles and you should be good…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Cancer often manifests itself well away from the area that is exposed to Carcinogens. I honestly don't think scrotum exposure is common...but one never knows.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

Batt4Christ said:


> I’m trying to figure out how/why Stihl Ultra 2-stroke oil was even brought into this thread - when it is about BAR OIL…. I guess some folks just have an ax to grind and will toss it in to whatever thread they can find…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Because it was mentioned and because as with any forum thread they tend to wander all over the place.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> I was thinking about the recycled oil,,
> With transportation costs, risks, and insurance,, the slow process of prep to resell, possible water or gas etc contamination,,
> it is more than likely that new crude made into chainsaw oil would be cheaper than recycled..
> 
> ...


I'm of the same opinion.


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## OM617YOTA (Feb 18, 2022)

When you take used engine oil to the dump here, all they do is collect it and burn it in waste oil burners to heat the county shops. No recycling going on. A couple exhibition steam trains in the area burn waste motor oil as well.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

huskihl said:


> Yeah we’re in it.


I dont miss that crap one bit!
We get a bit of snow, but it typicaly has melted within a week and the amount is never much.


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## bwalker (Feb 18, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> I don't think you understood my response. Whether or not any air with oil gets aspirated into the sewer system of the house is irrelevant. Said air isn't going to go backwards up the p-trap of a toilet.


Exactly.
I would call BS on the engineers comment in the first place. Diesel engines can combust oil very easily. In fact Cummins had a system called centinal years ago that pumped some of the crank case oil into the fuel supply a little bit at a time. You never had to change the oil. The filters where changed on schedule and the oil just needed to be topped up.
Diesel exhaust has nasties in it, but unbrunt hydrocarbons isn't really a problem to the point it would cause the situation mentioned.


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## camel2019 (Feb 19, 2022)

bkellyusa said:


> When it comes to bar oil I have generally used the brand that manufactured the saw. My reasoning was that I figured that the factory had designed it to meter out of the oil pump correctly for their saws and that has seemed true for me. However, nowadays, my saws oiling systems are adjustable so that's not much of a concern any more.
> 
> Myself I wouldn't use any type of oil that wasn't designed for chainsaws. Motor oil for example doesn't have the necessary tackifiers in it to make the oil stick to the chain while spinning even at lower RPM's.
> 
> The real problem with bar oils on a chainsaw is the the lubrication system is a total loss system. For the most part it gets slung off almost as fast as you use it. With that it is very possible that many types of motor oils will seem to work well enough but I think it's still worthwhile to use an oil designed for chainsaws.


There was a time before proper bar oils just like their wasabi time before proper mix oils. I have put a garbage picked poulan(johnsard) through hell it mainly seen used motor oil as bar oil. Heck for those worry warts I spray my trucks early fall with used motor oil and summer bar oil mixed 50/50 to help slow the salt from eating them.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 19, 2022)

Brufab said:


> I imagine the tackifiers help reduce the amount of oil in the air


Absolutely , keeps it on the bar & chain were it belongs . Not a tree hugger but why not use the proper oil for the application !


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## pdqdl (Feb 19, 2022)

OM617YOTA said:


> Yup, that's me, I run premix. Burn ~2 gallons per year max, and may not fire up a saw until doing firewood again the next year. $40/yr for a complete elimination of carb and fuel problems is money well spent for me.



Good point. I burn that much every day or two. So I couldn't consider any of that high$$ stuff.

My final mix is probably better than anything you get at the store though. But that topic is for another already bickered-to-death-thread.


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## Batt4Christ (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Cancer often manifests itself well away from the area that is exposed to Carcinogens. I honestly don't think scrotum exposure is common...but one never knows.



I guess folks are too tired to catch satire…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## pdqdl (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Was digging around the net tonight looking at different studies of the Carcinogenic potential ofnused oil and stumbled on the quote posted below.
> 
> "Exposure to mineral oils is strongly associated with an increased risk of nonmelanoma skin cancer, particularly of the scrotum."
> 
> It's all fun and games until your balls become one big cancerous mass.



I don't see any references to "used". So... The clean, new oil might be as much risk as the old stuff.

I'd suggest using a different lube for that kind of usage, whether used or not. Maybe washing your hands before you scratch, too.








Chimney sweeps' carcinoma - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## OM617YOTA (Feb 19, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> My final mix is probably better than anything you get at the store though. But that topic is for another already bickered-to-death-thread.


The oil in premix, possibly.

The fuel itself, not a chance. If you can find alkylate petrol, blended specifically for small engines, and doesn't cost $20/gal, I'm all ears. I'd mix my own too.


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## Dennisthemenace (Feb 19, 2022)

OM617YOTA said:


> When you take used engine oil to the dump here, all they do is collect it and burn it in waste oil burners to heat the county shops. No recycling going on. A couple exhibition steam trains in the area burn waste motor oil as well.


Common sense


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## Woodchuckels (Feb 19, 2022)

Batt4Christ said:


> I’m trying to figure out how/why Stihl Ultra 2-stroke oil was even brought into this thread - when it is about BAR OIL…. I guess some folks just have an ax to grind and will toss it in to whatever thread they can find…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Kinda like pork added to a bill in congress. Maybe we need a line item veto.


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## Hermio (Feb 19, 2022)

wstan101 said:


> I thought I would chime in here and add my 2 cents, I was a logger for 30 years and having run multiple true west coast muscle saws I used and still use STP with ATF for bar oil. Have never looked back, this combination has held up to all environments seen here in the pacific northwest. I simply adjust the mixture accordingly to temperatures from 100 degrees in the summer to well below freezing in the winter and outside used motor oil it is the most affordable bar lube you can use.


Did you know that STP has changed formulations over the years? It is not as thick as it used to be.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> I'm of the same opinion.


Yeah lots of that was going on , Pop & Son outfits . That has been stopped with Ministry of the Environment legislation controlling Oil recycling here . Certificates of Approval are required & monitored & scrutinized by the local Ministry Inspectors monthly . Air Quality monitoring is 24 hr & abatement standards are increasing every yr . Not as lucrative as was once realized . ISO. Quality Control Standards have standardized the way business is carried out & redundant measures are in place to protect the environment much better than was the norm previously . Over lapping Government Agency's also have been established to Regulate / Monitor & Correct . The former Consumer & Commercial Relations Board here in Ontario is now regulated by the TSSA . Talk about letting the weasel into the hen house . Anyhow , everything human design has it failings . The old Internal Responsibility System used by the Ministry of Labour has failed miserably by comparison via the MOE. , where as Facility Operators self police & have let numerous internal inspections lapse & numerous spills to ground or air have occurred , requiring Federal involvement within Provincial jurisdictions , another let the weasel into the hen house scenerio !


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## North by Northwest (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Requirments for motor oils have gotten so stringent that these days PAH's are pretty much removed from most oils. Most of the oils actually marketed as synthetic now actually start out as mineral oils, but are so processed they can be called synthetic. They work as well and better than true Synthetics in some cases too. Petro Canada and Chevron make some really great group 3+ base oils for instance.
> Of course after you have run them through a motor PAH's contimate the oil from the fuel the motor is ran on and to levels much higher than would typically be found in the base oils back in the day.
> As such I wear nitril gloves when dealing with used oil and won't run it as bar oil. I'm exposed to enough nasty chit in my working life that I avoid piling on top of it in my personal life.


Mineral oils have most definately been refined , to the degree they are a synthetic within purity. I use a lot of Group III religiously . Often the benefits of low smoke & odour abatement of Group IV is over rated & not cost effective . Anyone spending $25 to $30+ for certification of FD oil has a poor sence of phiscal responsibility or was born with a gold spoon up his or her ass . Lots of uncertified FC & FD expressed oils out there that are more than adequate for various 2T usages . A lot more 2T engines damaged from dull chains & improper tuning then , poor bar or engine oil mix . P.S. Good idea with the nitile grade gloves when handling used fuels & oils Ben , I do the same !


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## Okie (Feb 19, 2022)

In my Stihl saws I use hard and depend on, I use Stihl bar oil and the winter mix in really cold weather.* (and I never have any worn bar issues due to lack of oil)*
Also use Stihl oil for the gas/oil mix.

In my cheaper disposable consumable type none Stihl made saws that I use for trimming, such as Poulans, Craftsman, Homelites, I usually use most any of the cheaper bar oils, sometimes just 30W motor oil in the winter* because my cheapo type trim saws don't oil very good with the thicker grade of Stihl oil in cold temps. *


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## North by Northwest (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> The synthetic is Stihl Ultra. It's garbage and the worst oil ever marketed towards saw users.


This is where the Ultra scenerio arose . Ben was just qualifying that the Stihl Dealer Synthetic was most likely Ultra , which was never intended for chainsaws , rather 4mix blowers & trimmers . It has a long history of poor quality for chainsaw usage . The HP on the other hand is reasonable although not my preference either !


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## GrizG (Feb 19, 2022)

Broken said:


> This is where the Ultra scenerio arose . Ben was just qualifying that the Stihl Dealer Synthetic was most likely Ultra , which was never intended for chainsaws , rather 4mix blowers & trimmers . It has a long history of poor quality for chainsaw usage . The HP on the other hand is reasonable although not my preference either !


I find that curious... Stihl has enough confidence in HP Ultra to double the warranty on almost all their equipment for non-commercial use (as I recall demo saws and in-tree saws with 90 days warranties are excluded). My son sells Stihl and Husky and by far the biggest problems they see in the shop with outdoor equipment is owner/user neglect, carelessness, and abuse. The next bucket is truly worn out parts that had been maintained (e.g., bars, chains, belts, blades, skids, scraper bars, bushings, pullies) or things like flat tires. A very small fraction of the problems that come in are due manufacturing defects or dealer assembly mistakes... They try their best to cover repairs as warranty claims but quite frankly most of those aren't... It's clueless users and those who don't read the manual that cause the vast majority of the problems. I've seen photos of brand new, never been in the wood, chainsaws that had melted oil pumps and other damage because the owner warmed the saw up with the chain brake engaged. It was sluggish so they kept revving the saw! Yes, there are real defects encountered occasionally... like some MS461s with fuel lines pinched during assembly, and Huskies with bad electronics, but they are are a small minority of jobs. Regarding those 90 day warranties... my son has seen a lot of those tools badly abused and wrecked in that period through no fault of the tools. 

I've never had a lubricant failure per se. I try to use the correct type of lubricant for the application whether it is oil, grease, Teflon, graphite, anti-seize, or a solvent/lubricant such as WD-40, Tri-Flow, or Liquid Wrench, etc. This as one size does not fit all! There were a few times in the past 55+ years that I've been working on things where I failed to grease/oil bushings frequently enough on various pieces of equipment. Those were not lubricant failures, they were negligence on my part... Axle bushings on mowers lacking grease fittings have been my Achilles heel! Certainly never had an engine fail due to lubricate failure. In fact, on some of the machines I wore out the engine was the only good thing left!


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## bwalker (Feb 19, 2022)

GrizG said:


> I find that curious... Stihl has enough confidence in HP Ultra to double the warranty on almost all their equipment for non-commercial use (as I recall demo saws and in-tree saws with 90 days warranties are excluded). My son sells Stihl and Husky and by far the biggest problems they see in the shop with outdoor equipment is owner/user neglect, carelessness, and abuse. The next bucket is truly worn out parts that had been maintained (e.g., bars, chains, belts, blades, skids, scraper bars, bushings, pullies) or things like flat tires. A very small fraction of the problems that come in are due manufacturing defects or dealer assembly mistakes... They try their best to cover repairs as warranty claims but quite frankly most of those aren't... It's clueless users and those who don't read the manual that cause the vast majority of the problems. I've seen photos of brand new, never been in the wood, chainsaws that had melted oil pumps and other damage because the owner warmed the saw up with the chain brake engaged. It was sluggish so they kept revving the saw! Yes, there are real defects encountered occasionally... like some MS461s with fuel lines pinched during assembly, and Huskies with bad electronics, but they are are a small minority of jobs. Regarding those 90 day warranties... my son has seen a lot of those tools badly abused and wrecked in that period through no fault of the tools.
> 
> I've never had a lubricant failure per se. I try to use the correct type of lubricant for the application whether it is oil, grease, Teflon, graphite, anti-seize, or a solvent/lubricant such as WD-40, Tri-Flow, or Liquid Wrench, etc. This as one size does not fit all! There were a few times in the past 55+ years that I've been working on things where I failed to grease/oil bushings frequently enough on various pieces of equipment. Those were not lubricant failures, they were negligence on my part... Axle bushings on mowers lacking grease fittings have been my Achilles heel! Certainly never had an engine fail due to lubricate failure. In fact, on some of the machines I wore out the engine was the only good thing left!


When Ultra first came out I was given a large quantity of it with the MS361 I bought. Immediately I noticed that the stuff stunk really bad. After running it for awhile I also noticed it was dirty. Subsequently, many other guys found the same thing with picture evidence. It's just not a good oil in a chain saw. It's a FB quality oil which was a standard that was used in the early 1980's. It's also Ashless like marine oil in that it has no detergent additives. Instead it uses dispersent technology, which doesn't function at all over 300 degrees.


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## bwalker (Feb 19, 2022)

Broken said:


> Mineral oils have most definately been refined , to the degree they are a synthetic within purity. I use a lot of Group III religiously . Often the benefits of low smoke & odour abatement of Group IV is over rated & not cost effective . Anyone spending $25 to $30+ for certification of FD oil has a poor sence of phiscal responsibility or was born with a gold spoon up his or her ass . Lots of uncertified FC & FD expressed oils out there that are more than adequate for various 2T usages . A lot more 2T engines damaged from dull chains & improper tuning then , poor bar or engine oil mix . P.S. Good idea with the nitile grade gloves when handling used fuels & oils Ben , I do the same !


One doesn't need to spend alot of money to get into a FC or FD oil. Many are pretty reasonably priced.


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## huskihl (Feb 19, 2022)

GrizG said:


> Certainly never had an engine fail due to lubricate failure. In fact, on some of the machines I wore out the engine was the only good thing left!


Most consumers don’t put enough hours on a saw for it to be an issue. Tree dicks put more time on one in a few months than a homeowner will in his lifetime.


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## Tomos770 (Feb 19, 2022)

Broken said:


> The HP on the other hand is reasonable although not my preference either !


I have been following that YT channel for a while....unfortunately doesnt have subtitles (for you)....I do understand it though (Serbs are our distant neighbours)

Long story short..... 

Stihl 362 MY2014 (video is 4months old...so do the math) came to his service center from a commercial grade user who uses it for cutting firewood for others.....he knows that guy....so he knows that he uses Stihl HP oil exclusively (he is buying material from his service)

It was said that the saw doesnt have power.....that it runs oddly etc. So first he checked sparkplug....and troughout the sparkplug hole he saw that "star" pattern and wrongly asumed that either piston is melting or some foeign metal particles entered into cylinder.....so he pulled its cylinder.

At the end nothing was wrong with P&C unit.....it was its air filter who was not sealing properly and thus letting sawdust into its airsystem (luckily that didnt damaged P&C)

But he was surprised that engine is so spotless and in minth condition after all this usage....and that with mineral Stihl HP


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## GrizG (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> When Ultra first came out Inwas given a large quantity of it with the MS361 I bought. Immediately I noticed that the stuff stunknreally bad. After running it for awhile I also noticed it was dirty. Subsequently, many other guys found the same thing with picture evidence. It's just not a good oil in a chain saw. It's a FB quality oil which was a standard that was used in the early 1980's. It's also Ashless like marine oil in that it has no detergent additives. Instead it uses dispersent technology, which doesn't function at all over 300 degrees.


From my readings ash less is about lubrication when there little actual oil present such as during start up. I didn't see anything about detergents per se in regards to low ash vs. ash less. Rather ash less doesn't leave an ash behind to act as a dry lube compared to low ash oils. It also demands running at full throttle to burn the ash off or it will build up. From that respect, ash less is probably useful if you often don't run at full throttle while cutting. I think string trimmers would really benefit from ash less as I seldom hear guys run them at full throttle for long rather they pump the throttle around things that shouldn't be whacked or otherwise lug the engine.

The dispersant properties primarily help the oil break down in the environment. I'd think that if 2 stroke engines were run either at idle or full throttle, that dispersant would work just fine as excess temperature isn't much of a problem. This due to flywheel cooling being better at high RPMs than it is when running the saw too slowly (e.g., half throttle). My Game of Logging trainer indicated you should either idle the saw or run it full throttle. This from a heat and lubrication standpoint and from a safety standpoint (less likely to grab on a bore cut). Full throttle also drives the bar oil pump faster so that the bar is properly lubricated. It seems there is nothing worse than bogging down a saw in a cut as it doesn't lube the cylinder or bar correctly and it generates too much heat.

Regarding the odor, the synthetic ester HP Ultra smells different from petroleum based oil but that doesn't translate to bad or good, it's just different. 

From what I've experienced HP Ultra smokes less, doesn't build up on the spark arrestor, and it leaves the combustion chamber and piston quite clean with run with non-ethanol gas. To date I haven't seen a downside. With the fuel stabilizers and non-ethanol I also haven't had any problem with start up with a hedge clipper or string trimmer sits out the winter months. The chainsaws, pole trimmer and back pack blower tend to get year round use.

This is an interesting topic for sure.


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## GrizG (Feb 19, 2022)

huskihl said:


> Most consumers don’t put enough hours on a saw for it to be an issue. Tree dicks put more time on one in a few months than a homeowner will in his lifetime.


For sure... lack of use, neglect, and lack of skill kills more homeowner equipment than does hours of use... Of course buying pro equipment vs. homeowner grade stuff makes a difference too!


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## bwalker (Feb 19, 2022)

GrizG said:


> From my readings ash less is about lubrication when there little actual oil present such as during start up. I didn't see anything about detergents per se in regards to low ash vs. ash less. Rather ashless doesn't leave an ash behind to act as a dry lube compared to low ash oils. It also demands running at full throttle to burn the ash off or it will build up. From that respect, ash less is probably useful if you often don't run at full throttle while cutting. I think string trimmers would really benefit from ash less as I seldom hear guys run them at full throttle for long rather they pump the throttle around things that shouldn't be whacked or otherwise lug the engine.
> 
> The dispersant properties primarily help the oil break down in the environment. I'd think that if 2 stroke engines were run either at idle or full throttle, that dispersant would work just fine as excess temperature isn't much of a problem. This due to flywheel cooling being better at high RPMs than it is when running the saw too slowly (e.g., half throttle). My Game of Logging trainer indicated you should either idle the saw or run it full throttle. This from a heat and lubrication standpoint and from a safety standpoint (less likely to grab on a bore cut). Full throttle also drives the bar oil pump faster so that the bar is properly lubricated. It seems there is nothing worse than bogging down a saw in a cut as it doesn't lube the cylinder or bar correctly and it generates too much heat.
> 
> ...


Ashless refers to the Sulfated ash bench test that is used to measure the amount of mettalic compounds in the oil. Detergents are calcium and magnesium based so the ash test measures the amounts of these. An oil is ashless when it does not contain detergents. Instead ashless oil uses a nitrogen amine based dispersent technology. The problem with this is dispersent technology doesn't work above 300 degree ring belt temps. This is problematic in an air cooled motor like a chainsaw. The amine are also what makes the Ultra stink. So when you see ashless it does not refer to what you stated at the begining of your post. The rest of the assumptions in regards to ashless oil in your post are equally flawed as well.
Ultra was brought to market in the first place to band aid issues with Stihls 4-Mix engines. I can't comment if it works OK in 4 mix engines, because I won't own a 4 cycle that burns oil on purpose.


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## GrizG (Feb 19, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Ashless refers to the Sulfated ash bench test that is used to measure the amount of mettalic compounds in the oil. Detergents are calcium and magnesium based so the ash tests measures the amounts of these. An oil is ashless when it does not contain Detergents. Instead ashless oil uses a nitrogen amine based dispersent technology. The problem with this is dispersent technology doesn't work above 300 degree ring belt temps. This is problematic in an air cooled motor like a chainsaw. The amine are also what makes the Ultra stink. So when you see ashless it does not refer to what you stated at the begining of your post. The rest of the assumptions in regards to ashless oil in your post are equally flawed as well.
> Ultra was brought to market in the first place to band aid issues with Stihls 4-Mix engines. I can't comment if it works OK in 4 mix engines, because I won't own a 4 cycle that burns oil on purpose.


It would seem our reference sources are somewhat in conflict... Part of this could be context. References in my sources were also are made to 2 stroke motorcycles, aircraft, race/sports cars and other engine applications beyond outdoor power equipment. Some of it could be marketing...

One source I'd read (air cooled sports/race cars and aircraft) indicated that ashless dispersant works by encapsulating and dispersing combustion ash out of the engine to prevent buildup and excessive wear. That sounded functionally like a detergent! That's the polar opposite performance of "regular" mix oil I've seen in some engines... particularly in regards to spark arrestor buildup. In a few extreme cases, for example, guys ran way too much non-synthetic mix oil thinking it was better... extreme build up and clogged spark arrestors. Another guy was running mix oil along with Marvel Mystery Oil in the gasoline in his MS461 (as I recall). His thinking was that his repeated cylinder and piston scoring was due to a lack of oil rather than an extreme build up that was breaking off and acting as an abrasive. 

A British source I read early on, writing in reference to 2 stroke motorcycles, said that much of what we "know" about mix oil is based on marketing and not scientific testing. With that in mind, as well as the reported post-hoc analyses of OTC oil additives from the 60s-90s, I take a lot of it with a grain of salt. Witness STP paying fines to the Federal Trade Commission over false advertising... I don't think there was ever a bigger oil additive brand than STP.

I go by what I see in practice and my Stihl engines running Ultra work well. They are very clean and start and run reliably. I haven't seen the symptoms of them being dirty as reported by others. It makes me wonder if some of those reports are the result of running Ultra after the engine was "dirty" from running other mix oils previously and the Ultra was cleaning them out?

As an aside, there isn't really much new in the basic design of internal combustion engines. Four and two stroke engines are 150-160 years old... Super chargers are only a bit younger than that. Diesels 130. Turbo chargers are over 100 years old. Fuel injection 70. Even Stihl's 4-mix has been around for 20 years. The materials, tolerances and outputs have changed; the fuels and lubricants have changed; and time has mostly weeded out the problematic. Based on the press releases MotoMix was announced 11 years ago... I didn't find an HP Ultra press release so I don't know when that became available as a stand alone product. If the 4-Mix engines were that much of a problem and MotoMix containing Ultra was the solution why did it take 9 years to come out with MotoMix. Alternatively or why wasn't the engine design discontinued? There are a couple performance related themes I've noticed with 4 mix engines. One is the valves need to be adjusted occasionally. The other is that running the trimmers with excessively long string (no guard/deflector) puts an excessive load on the whole system and increases wear and heat in the engine. Both of those are user issues that would be difficult to blame on how the lubrication is effected.


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## bwalker (Feb 19, 2022)

GrizG said:


> It would seem our reference sources are somewhat in conflict... Part of this could be context. References in my sources were also are made to 2 stroke motorcycles, aircraft, race/sports cars and other engine applications beyond outdoor power equipment. Some of it could be marketing...
> 
> One source I'd read (air cooled sports/race cars and aircraft) indicated that ashless dispersant works by encapsulating and dispersing combustion ash out of the engine to prevent buildup and excessive wear. That sounded functionally like a detergent! That's the polar opposite performance of "regular" mix oil I've seen in some engines... particularly in regards to spark arrestor buildup. In a few extreme cases, for example, guys ran way too much non-synthetic mix oil thinking it was better... extreme build up and clogged spark arrestors. Another guy was running mix oil along with Marvel Mystery Oil in the gasoline in his MS461 (as I recall). His thinking was that his repeated cylinder and piston scoring was due to a lack of oil rather than an extreme build up that was breaking off and acting as an abrasive.
> 
> ...


What I typed is completely accurate. I'd put money on it. The problem is people confuse ash in product descriptions with combustion deposits that are also, well ash..
Ash when used to describe oils refers to the Sulfated ash test I mentioned earlier. The test is called that because a sample of oil is reacted with a strong acid and the resulting mettalic residue called ash is measured.
Dispersents work as you described. Basicly the same mode of action as a soap.
As for marketing. Yes, alot of crap you read on two cycle oils in marketing is terrible. Amsoil is notorious for this, but have gotten somewhat better. Opti still does it. Then you have many companies saying their product "meets" a standard they have never been tested against. You also have companies like Klotz that say their oil meets both TCW3 and Jaso FD standards which isn't even possible..It's a mess!


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## bwalker (Feb 19, 2022)

GrizG said:


> It would seem our reference sources are somewhat in conflict... Part of this could be context. References in my sources were also are made to 2 stroke motorcycles, aircraft, race/sports cars and other engine applications beyond outdoor power equipment. Some of it could be marketing...
> 
> One source I'd read (air cooled sports/race cars and aircraft) indicated that ashless dispersant works by encapsulating and dispersing combustion ash out of the engine to prevent buildup and excessive wear. That sounded functionally like a detergent! That's the polar opposite performance of "regular" mix oil I've seen in some engines... particularly in regards to spark arrestor buildup. In a few extreme cases, for example, guys ran way too much non-synthetic mix oil thinking it was better... extreme build up and clogged spark arrestors. Another guy was running mix oil along with Marvel Mystery Oil in the gasoline in his MS461 (as I recall). His thinking was that his repeated cylinder and piston scoring was due to a lack of oil rather than an extreme build up that was breaking off and acting as an abrasive.
> 
> ...


The other thing is moto mix was stihls answer to the canned fuel market. Had nothing to do with the 4-mix. Ultra was brought out years before for the 4-mix engine. Mettalic ash deposits were building up on the valves causing issues. There answer was to go to an ashless oil, which would be fine in a four stroke because their pistons run much cooler than a two cycle. The problems started when it began to be ran in chainsaws.


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## Grateful11 (Feb 19, 2022)

I used to use Tractor Supply's brand name bar oil. Then a Rural King opened not too far away a few years ago and get whatever they are pushing at a low price, Harvest King, Cam2 and the last I bought was Mystik Bar Oil at $7/gallon. Can't tell much difference between any of them.


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## wstan101 (Feb 19, 2022)

Hermio said:


> Did you know that STP has changed formulations over the years? It is not as thick as it used to be.


Yes you are quite right, however it is still extremely sticky and stringy, in the right quantities this recipe is more than adequate for any bar/chain combo. One Husky 51 I own has the original bar on it from 1990. I realize that for the purists out there this is sacrilege, but to each his or her own.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 20, 2022)

Tomos770 said:


> I have been following that YT channel for a while....unfortunately doesnt have subtitles (for you)....I do understand it though (Serbs are our distant neighbours)
> 
> Long story short.....
> 
> ...



as I said HP is a FB grade oil , appropriate for most 2T applications . I have not witnessed any downside other than its over priced . I have never bought any Manufacturers oil . It's simple economics , why by a marginal product and pay xtra to line the Dealers pockets ?


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## Tomos770 (Feb 20, 2022)

Dont know for where you live.... 
....but I can get Stihl HP 1L for under 10euros per litre....usualky is around 9e/L

The only problem is....that I can find also oils as Shell ultra 2t....Motul 710 2t....and similar top of the notch synthetic/ester oils for almost the same price....in range between 12-15e/L


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## North by Northwest (Feb 20, 2022)

Tomos770 said:


> Dont know for where you live....
> ....but I can get Stihl HP 1L for under 10euros per litre....usualky is around 9e/L
> 
> The only problem is....that I can find also oils as Shell ultra 2t....Motul 710 2t....and similar top of the notch synthetic/ester oils for almost the same price....in range between 12-15e/L


Yeah , that pretty well sums up what I said , both the Shell & Motul especially , are equal and better overall choices . However , both are much more than what I currently pay for Saber , Dominator & Interceptor in my current applications !


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## Zaedock (Feb 20, 2022)

I only use virgin oil on my testicles in summer to prevent monkey butt when cutting wood on hot days.
A little for me, a little for the saw.....


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## Brufab (Feb 20, 2022)

Olive


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## Zaedock (Feb 20, 2022)

In all seriousness, is Stihl bar oil worth the price? Nah, but I still find myself buying a jug here and there from my local dealer. Fuel too. 
Most of the time I buy Harvest King bar oil and fuel from Runnings in CT when I visit my daughter. I haven't noticed any difference in performance between HK, Stihl,Husky, or County Line Bar oils. I only use canned fuels in my saws and trimmers as E-free fuel is hard to come by in my area. If I'm traveling and have a chance to hit up an E-free pump, I'll bring a can and make my own. It's a lot cheaper if I'm processing a large load.


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## Zaedock (Feb 20, 2022)

Brufab said:


> Olive


Virgin motor oil. Although Olive could be used for other occasions I suppose.


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## bwalker (Feb 20, 2022)

Broken said:


> as I said HP is a FC grade oil , appropriate for most 2T applications . I have not witnessed any downside other than its over priced . I have never bought any Manufacturers oil . It's simple economics , why by a marginal product and pay xtra to line the Dealers pockets ?


I don't believe that the orange bottle stihl in Canada or the US is FC quality. It's easily the poorest quality of the OEM oils and has been for some time.


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## bwalker (Feb 20, 2022)

wstan101 said:


> Yes you are quite right, however it is still extremely sticky and stringy, in the right quantities this recipe is more than adequate for any bar/chain combo. One Husky 51 I own has the original bar on it from 1990. I realize that for the purists out there this is sacrilege, but to each his or her own.


Personally I dont know why guys think STP would do anything beneficial when making improvised bar oil. Of course I don't understand why someone would want to make improvised bar oil in the first place when cheaper dedicated products exist.


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## Tomos770 (Feb 20, 2022)

bwalker said:


> I don't believe that the orange bottle stihl in Canada or the US is FC quality. It's easily the poorest quality of the OEM oils and has been for some time.


All 3 versions (HP, Super, Ultra) are Jaso FB/ ISO-L-EGB over here  

Just click on them for additional infos... 






Pogonska sredstva, motorna olja in olja za mazanje verige | STIHL webshop | Unicommerce d.o.o.


UNICOMMERCE D.O.O. je ekskluzivni uvoznik in distributer izdelkov STIHL za Slovenijo.




unicommerce.si


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## bwalker (Feb 20, 2022)

Tomos770 said:


> All 3 versions (HP, Super, Ultra) are Jaso FB/ ISO-L-EGB over here
> 
> Just click on them for additional infos...
> 
> ...


That does not supprise me. Nothing like paying top dollar for inferior crap.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 20, 2022)

bwalker said:


> I don't believe that the orange bottle stihl in Canada or the US is FC quality. It's easily the poorest quality of the OEM oils and has been for some time.


What is Stihl Premium in the White bottle Ben ?


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## bwalker (Feb 20, 2022)

Broken said:


> What is Stihl Premium in the White bottle Ben ?


Its made by Castrol. Have no idea, but if I were placing a wager I would say FB too.
Stihl seems to be stuck about 35 years behind the times in oil technology. 
Husky, Echo, Redmax, Dolmar etc all market modern FC and FD oils.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 20, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Its made by Castrol. Have no idea, but if I were placing a wager I would say FB too.
> Stihl seems to be stuck about 35 years behind the times in oil technology.
> Husky, Echo, Redmax, Dolmar etc all market modern FC and FD oils.


Yes, it is a Castrol product . The reason I ask its what the City Works Crews are using for all their units , blowers , trimmers etc . I personally have signed off on anything Stihl , tired of our local dealer & their proprietary issues !


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## RCamo (Feb 20, 2022)

Brufab said:


> Olive


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 23, 2022)

I went into a Stihl/Echo dealer a couple days ago. The only bar and chain oil they had was Stihl, $18 & change before taxes.


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## OM617YOTA (Feb 23, 2022)

To be fair, if I need bar oil, I'm not driving across town to save three bucks. I'll buy the $18 Stihl stuff and go cut wood.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 23, 2022)

OM617YOTA said:


> To be fair, if I need bar oil, I'm not driving across town to save three bucks. I'll buy the $18 Stihl stuff and go cut wood.



Same, then I’ll look for opportunities after that. I’ll probably be somewhere cheaper before that gallon runs out.


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## bwalker (Feb 23, 2022)

I just saw some Durex for $13 a gallon and it's suppose to be a premium product.
Last bar oil I bought was rural king and for $7a gallon IIRC.


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## wstan101 (Feb 26, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Personally I dont know why guys think STP would do anything beneficial when making improvised bar oil. Of course I don't understand why someone would want to make improvised bar oil in the first place when cheaper dedicated products exist.


Just for clarification, I don't use STP alone, it is mixed with ATF. STP has what is known as "Adhesive *oil*" characteristics, able to cling to vertical surfaces with the ATF used as a thinner. Whenever auto transmission fluid is changed, I have two gallons of oil already paid for.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 27, 2022)

wstan101 said:


> Just for clarification, I don't use STP alone, it is mixed with ATF. STP has what is known as "Adhesive *oil*" characteristics, able to cling to vertical surfaces with the ATF used as a thinner. Whenever auto transmission fluid is changed, I have two gallons of oil already paid for.


Home brew may work however the economic & physical benefits are questionable when $7 gallon bar oils are available , if your dedicated to a little web search or local suppliers during their monthly sales .


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## SamT1 (Feb 27, 2022)

Tractor supply oil is the cheapest around here. It looks like 15w40 diesel oil though and you’d have trouble convincing me it not just reject motor oil. I’ll buy whatever is cheapest that or oil. 
the Stihl oil is better. But I think last I bought was $19 vs $9.
I’d estimate on the life of a bar I use atleast 10 gallons of oil (really don’t keep track) but at $10X10 gallons that enough money to buy 2 more bars……
I used to be hard core all Stihl all the way. But the new orange jug isn’t near what the OG orange jug was. And the price gap just doesn’t make sense. I’m still sticking with the ultra Stihl motor oil for now. Just bought a gallon this week that should get me through to the next busy season.
The best bar and chain oil known to man was some Quaker state stuff I used to buy 20 years ago. It poured about like stp, but when your running a saw at 100* it’s perfect.


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## North by Northwest (Feb 27, 2022)

What ever wet's your wick brother , i agree its just a chain ! 


SamT1 said:


> Tractor supply oil is the cheapest around here. It looks like 15w40 diesel oil though and you’d have trouble convincing me it not just reject motor oil. I’ll buy whatever is cheapest that or oil.
> the Stihl oil is better. But I think last I bought was $19 vs $9.
> I’d estimate on the life of a bar I use atleast 10 gallons of oil (really don’t keep track) but at $10X10 gallons that enough money to buy 2 more bars……
> I used to be hard core all Stihl all the way. But the new orange jug isn’t near what the OG orange jug was. And the price gap just doesn’t make sense. I’m still sticking with the ultra Stihl motor oil for now. Just bought a gallon this week that should get me through to the next busy season.
> The best bar and chain oil known to man was some Quaker state stuff I used to buy 20 years ago. It poured about like stp, but when your running a saw at 100* it’s perfect.


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## arborist (Feb 27, 2022)

I don't remember buying husky or stihl b&c oil once in my life. Always the cheapest stuff I can find. My bars last years in a commercial setting. If the cheapest bar oil wasn't good enough, I would have changed 20 years ago when I notice short bar or chain life. 

I always grab HP ultra for a 50:1 mix while I'm in stocking up in stihl chains and files. I'm getting thousands and thousands of issue free hours on my saws. I wont change my ways until I see premature damage on something. I went to the HP ultra because I learned way back, "any 2 stoke oil" isn't good enough for chainsaws. Learned that lesson on old junk saws though lol. HP ultra has been serving me great for years. I'm no oil expert. I just decided to go with this since I stop in for my chains and files anyway and I'm not changing now because 6.4 oz of that to 2.5 gallons has = very, very, very long engine life for my husky saws.

B&C oil though, nope. Cheapest stuff going and grab a few at a time when I see a deal.


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## bwalker (Feb 27, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Tractor supply oil is the cheapest around here. It looks like 15w40 diesel oil though and you’d have trouble convincing me it not just reject motor oil. I’ll buy whatever is cheapest that or oil.
> the Stihl oil is better. But I think last I bought was $19 vs $9.
> I’d estimate on the life of a bar I use atleast 10 gallons of oil (really don’t keep track) but at $10X10 gallons that enough money to buy 2 more bars……
> I used to be hard core all Stihl all the way. But the new orange jug isn’t near what the OG orange jug was. And the price gap just doesn’t make sense. I’m still sticking with the ultra Stihl motor oil for now. Just bought a gallon this week that should get me through to the next busy season.
> The best bar and chain oil known to man was some Quaker state stuff I used to buy 20 years ago. It poured about like stp, but when your running a saw at 100* it’s perfect.


There isn't such a thing as reject oil being sold. If a batch of oil is rejected for whatever reason it would be blended with new oil until it passed specs. In a worst case scenario it would be run back through distillation.
The refining unit I work has what we call a "slop" line. It goes right back to the main distillation unit.
Rejecting or slopping is incredibly rare because ita expensive and is avoided at all cost.


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