# Milling lumber woodshop style



## woodshop

Couple people have asked me exactly how I mill all the lumber I do. This explains my system A to Z. 

Few people can claim they have the ability to walk into the woods, drop a 3 ft diameter tree, buck and limb it, and then mill the logs into rough lumber right there on the spot. I have assembled a system using an Alaskan chainsaw mill, a chainsaw powered bandmill and some custom built equipment that will do just that. There are many portable bandmills on the market today that sit on carraiges or can be towed behind a truck. They have their place, and if I could afford one I would probably own one. However, they all have one major limitation. You still have to get that 800lb log from where it was cut to the saw and up onto the carriage where it can be milled into lumber. If that log is 100 yards deep into the woods and you don't have a skidder or ATV with a log carrier, you're out of luck. The 47lb chainsaw powered Ripsaw bandmill allows you to carry the mill right to the tree, so it is truly portable. Along with two 20 lb aluminum guide beams to guide it down the log you can be milling lumber within 15 minutes of setup. In one day I can drop a tree, buck it, slice it into cants with my Alaskan chainsaw mill, and then use the bandmill to mill those cants into 300-500 bd ft of lumber. No single piece of my system is more than 50 lbs, but both mills and accompanying equipment add up to about 300lbs. all together. When I do have to carry it all back into the woods, I can do it in two trips using a small sturdy wagon. 

Husqvarna 365 and Echo 3450
Prior to felling the tree I use the small but dependable 34cc Echo CS-3450 with a 16" bar to clear away brush and open up a couple of escape routes. I fell and buck the tree using a 65cc Husky 365 with a 28" bar. It has plenty of power to drop and buck a 24 inch diameter tree. With a little patience and skill it will also take care of a larger one. After lopping off the big limbs and bucking the log into 8 ft lenghts, I grab the small Echo again to clean up the small stuff. I also use the little Echo for trimming away knots or small defects on a log prior to attaching the milling guide beams where a larger saw would be awkward if not dangerous.

Granberg 36"Alaskan chainsaw mill with Husky 395XP
After dropping the tree and limbing and bucking the log to 8 ft lengths, the first order of business is getting the log into 14" wide cants so the RipSaw bandmill can start making lumber. The best way to do this is to slab off the sides of the log with the Alaskan Mill. If the log is larger than 28 inches diameter, I usually quarter it with the Alaskan. Unlike the bandmill with its thin .025" kerf, the Alaskan mill uses a chainsaw bar and chain with its larger kerf that wastes more of your log. However, the bandmill is limited to a 14" wide cut, and also the bandmill blades wear out quicker going through bark. So, I do the dirty work of getting the log to manageable cants without bark using the Alaskan mill first. I power the Alaskan mill with a 94cc Husqvarna 395XP pulling standard ripping chain around a 36" bar. You lose about 6 inches of bar attaching the saw on the mill, so that leaves me with a max cut of about 30" wide. The 395XP with its 94cc's has the muscle needed to rip that much hardwood. With a lot of fussing, a 30" cut is actually wide enough to slice up a 4ft diameter tree if needed. I rarely come across a tree larger than 36" though, and most of the time I am dealing with trees less than 24" so this capacity mill and saw are plenty. You can get away with a smaller saw in the 60cc range, but it will be slow going on anything over 15 inches even with a shorter bar. All the pros say it's really hard on a small saw pulling a chain around a 36" bar especially when ripping. So, if you're going to be milling logs much over 15" diameter you will need a large saw in the 90cc and above class. 

Ripsaw with Stihl MS 361
Once I have whittled the log into 14-inch wide cants, which is the max width cut of my Ripsaw bandmill, I can start milling lumber. A chainsaw powerhead powers the Ripsaw, and I use a Stihl MS361. Its 59cc's has plenty of power to pull the thin kerf 3/4" x 90" bandsaw blade through the log. With a sharp new blade the RipSaw will move through 14-inch wide oak at more than 2 ft/minute. Softer wood as well as less width goes even faster. An 8 ft long 10-inch wide soft pine log would take about a minute end to end. As the blade gets dull, the saw needs to work harder and the cutting speed drops off quickly. That's my queue to change blades. If I keep going with a dull blade, not only is it much harder on my powerhead, but also the blade starts to wander and my cuts are not true. Depending on the species I'm cutting, I get about 200 bd ft of lumber from an $18 blade before it needs re-sharpening. I can get two sharpenings from each blade if I am careful. I've gotten more than 600 bd ft between sharpenings in softwoods. I found that if I keep the blade out of bark as much as I can, it will last a lot longer. That is why I use the Alaskan mill initially to slab off the sides of the log. Sharpening a chain is much quicker and easier than sharpening a blade. Not counting my time, the cost of the blades is the most expensive part of the milling operation at about 5 cents a bd ft. 

guide beams
The Ripsaw mill's fence rides on sturdy hollow aluminum 2x6 guide beams that get attached to the top of the log to guide the mill giving me dead-on true strait cuts. Two 5 ft sections come with the Ripsaw package, but if you want longer boards you can attach more sections. They bolt together making one long strait beam. I also use the guide beams when pushing my Alaskan mill down the log when initially cutting the log into 14" wide cants. 

small horses, floor jack & ramp
Two small sawhorses along with a lightweight aluminum automotive floor jack and a 2x6 ramp are the system I use to get the logs off the ground and thus easier to mill. I use a cant hook to roll one end of the log up onto the small ramp. This raises the log enough to allow me to get the floor jack under the log and lift it high enough to slip one of the small horses underneath. I then jack up the other end of the log, and slip the second horse under. The log is now up off the ground and much easier to mill. The small horses are sturdy enough to hold a large log and have metal reinforced wooden chocks that fit into holes I drilled into 1/4 inch thick aluminum bar stock attached to the top of each horse. While is it entirely possible to mill the log while it's on the ground and I have done many that way, I was either bending over or down on my knees pushing the mill down the log. This was hard on my back and knees both. With the log up on the horses I am standing and leaning into the RipSaw partially using my body weight to push the saw down the log. 

two toolboxes
Except for saw gas, bar oil and the large items, two toolboxes contain all small items needed for the milling operation. One contains tools to service the RipSaw, Alaskan mill and the chain saws as well as spare parts, chainsaw files, spare chains etc. The second is a custom made wooden box that contains all the rest of the accoutrements necessary for safe milling. Chaps, dust mask and gloves, first aid kit, hatchet, small fire extinguisher, and wedges for felling and bucking. All the tools, spare parts and small items are in these two toolboxes. If I keep them organized and stocked, grabbing both assures that I won't forget anything.

portable worktable
I park my RipSaw for changing blades and adjusting fence height between cuts on a simple table using lightweight plastic sawhorses upon which I set a plywood plank just the right size for my RipSaw and a few tools. This little "quick and dirty worktable in the woods" really comes in handy when adjusting equipment or sharpening the saws. I used to just set things on the ground or a stump, but that was hard on the back and knees after a day of sawing. 

summary
So there you have it, standing tree to custom milled lumber. I fell and buck the tree, use the Alaskan chainsaw mill to slice into 14" cants, and then use the Ripsaw bandmill to mill those cants into lumber. I move logs around with a cant hook and floor jack, and also use the jack to hoist logs/cants up onto sawhorses for easier milling. Depending on species, terrain, and how far back off the beaten path you need to take your equipment, you can go from standing tree to 400 bd ft of custom sawn lumber in one day. 

Is this method a lot of hard work? You bet. Expect to burn some calories. Is it rewarding? You bet. Expect to get excited. I've milled thousands of bd ft of lumber with this method, and every time I open up a log I'm like a kid in a candy store. Is it expensive? Well, depending on species and where you live, milled wet lumber is still a buck or two a foot right off the saw. Much more for quartersawn boards or 14" wide 8/4 and 12/4 if you can even find it. So that 300 bd ft you milled in a day would cost you at least $500 and probably more if you had to buy it. Also, I have milled walnut and cherry crotch figured wood that looks better than stuff costing $30 a foot at the local specialty lumber retailer. So, is my system expensive? An entry level bandmill on a trailer you can tow behind your truck will still cost you the better part of $5000 and a LOT more for a good one. Everything in my system fits in the back of my minivan and all together will cost you about $3500. Around $2500 if you're willing to swap saws between mills. At 300-500 bd ft a day can my system cut as fast as the bigger more expensive bandmills? Of course not. However, I can carry mine right up to that cherry tree that blew down in the back of the neighbors yard. Within 15 minutes I am milling custom lumber exactly the way I want it cut. That is where my system shines.


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## trimmmed

Thanks!


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## Tree Machine

I was one of those people. I continue to be amazed at the amount of talent around here.


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## treechick

hey, WoodShop , this sounds very usable, and i'm going to read through you post thoroughly in the a.m. <spent half the night driving back from my sister's place up north and i'm sleeeeeeepy> i am curious if you use a plunge cut to save basewood (because just a notch & back cut can leave long fibers that have been pulled from the heartwood) ... and if so, then it might be worth mentioning to us 'newbies' should we try our hand at on-site milling. i, for one, would LOVE to give it a go !!!


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## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> I was one of those people. I continue to be amazed at the amount of talent around here.


I'm one of those crazy people that believes EVERYBODY has innate talent, given to them from above, and it just has to be brought out, refined, and used. 

Treechick I learned how to fell working for a pulpwood company as a logger, and we weren't too concerned about leaving too much hinge, and thus pulling fibers from the heartwood of that precious first log. Most of the logs I get now were cut by tree guys and are laying in somebodies back yard or are blowdowns, etc. I do fell in my Dads woods and other places where its safe if I screw up. If I'm leaving hingewood on one side to get the tree to pull that direction, sometimes have to leave a pretty wide chunk, and tearout can't be helped. That said, I'm just a rookie when it comes to felling. There are REAL loggers on this site that do this every day and can tell you how to cut a tree and leave that first log perfect. Maybe some will chime in here and straiten me out. 

As for my milling system, ask away. I think it fills a niche between pure alaskan chainsaw milling and a full blown tow-behind bandmill thats only as portable as far as you can tow it. Pushing that Ripsaw down the log is easier than pushing my Granberg, but my alaskan is indispensable in my system. I need it for the wide cuts, and prepping cants for the Ripsaw. Have tons more pics, will post more. 

Dave


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## woodshop

Trimmmed... your welcome


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## trimmmed

Hey Dave, I'm curious about the evolution of your current system. Which did you get first, the ripsaw or the Alaskan? I can see eventually saving enough in bands to pay for the Alaskan. BTW, are you getting your bands from suffolk machinery (timberwolf) and what size band does it take. And, how many do you keep in rotation. Also, do you sharpen or send them out? 

Your system solves a few problems for me, mainly portability.


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## Tree Machine

*Here's the critter*

Here's Woodshop's Ripsaw for those of us dying to see the thing.

Hopefully WS will kick us down some action photos


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## woodshop

Trimmmed I bought the Ripsaw first and used that for several years, only getting the Granberg two years ago. Before the Alaskan, used to get my logs into cants the old fashioned way, just running down the side of the log ripping freehand. Not only did this result in uneven width cants, but was a LOT of hard work, hard on my back. Keep in mind that your cants can be no more than 14” width… period. 14 1/4 inch and the Ripsaw stops dead in its tracks, like trying to stuff a 1/2 inch bolt in a 9/16” nut. At that point you turn it off, wiggle the saw backwards in the cut far enough to get a chainsaw in there and trim the cant some more till its 14” or less. So I often ended up with cants that were 12-13” because I would err on the thinner side freehanding not wanting to go over 14”. Also was hard to get parallel sides on the cants doing it freehand, as I would inevitably wander in or out. Wasted wood, often the outside of the log where there are no knots, premium stuff. The Granberg solved all that. It gives me dead on 14” wide cants and allows me to quarter the log perfectly. Never thought about the Granberg paying for itself in cost of blades saved, but for less than $200, yeah it sure would, pretty quick if you did a lot of milling. 

Have not gotten any blades from Suffolk yet, do want to try some, just don’t need blades now, still have 8 new ones and many ready to sharpen. Found that blades last DOUBLE if not more if you don’t run them through bark. Also depends on species. Milled some Butternut few months ago, and did not have Alaskan with me, went through lots of bark, and the blade kept gumming up, overheating and cutting poorly. Was getting less than 150 ft per. Week later did some Black Ash where I went through NO bark, and got almost 600 ft out of a blade. That was hard Ash… partially dry at that as it was laying on ground for 8 months. 

I sharpen using a Dremel tool and diamond stones on a jig I designed to set in my vise. It’s basically a piece of plywood with “legs” to hold the whole circumference of a blade, part of which sits in a little fence where I grind the tooth. I fold the blades in three before hand, and drop them in a bucket of kerosene and let them soak for a while, then unfold and use a brass wire wheel in a drill to clean what little gum is still left after soaking, and I do that as it sits on its sharpening jig where I can pull it around. I get two sharpenings from each blade unless it hits metal or rock, in which case its toast immediately. I usually take 3-4 blades with me. This allows me a few screwups like hitting a nail. You can sharpen in the woods with a stone in a rechargeable Dremel, but its not the same, hard to keep consistent, at least for me.


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## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> Here's Woodshop's Ripsaw for those of us dying to see the thing.
> 
> Hopefully WS will kick us down some action photos


http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=18912
...some "action photos" in this thread above that I posted few weeks ago, pics were too big for dial-up and spacemule graciously resized them and put them back so dialup people could see. 

here are a few more from few years ago

ripsaw13 shows my Dad and I supporting the ripsaw just as it exits the cant, in fact blade has still to finish cutting last corner of cant

ripsaw14 is a contraption I designed and built to allow the Ripsaw to mill small logs and chunks down to firewood size if you wanted to. The fence the mill rides on moves up and down in 1/4 inch increments to lower or raise the mill in the log, held captive with sliding dogs made from the hard Black Locust.


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## Newfie

Cool pics. You are a clever [email protected]  Ingenious jigs and what-not.


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## Tree Machine

We want more. ! You've only scratched the surface of your images. Kick us down, Mr.! And thank you for your detailed writing. You cover all the details, well almost all, and you show how you're making it happen. Kick it in to gear! You have a captive audience....


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## woodho

Woodshop,
Thank you for your great descriptions. This has always fascinated me but I always thought it would be too expensive to get into. Since I already own saws capable of running these mills it might be feasible. Really enjoyed your deatiled descriptions and pics. You have obviously put a lot of time and thought into your operation. Please continue to post. Again, thank you for spending the time to illustrate your set-up.
Woodho


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## Tree Machine

*I'm with Ho*

You're helping enlighten a lot of guys with a truly unique, and do-able system. Feed us some more photos !


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## ray benson

Woodshop, Had to copy your "Milling lumber woodshop style". 
Thanks for taking the time to explain in detail your refined techniques. Mighty impressive! 
How does the chainsaw couple to the Ripsaw? Could any saw be used as the power source? How and what do you use to keep the wood from splitting?


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## Tree Machine

*Getting connected*

This is the connection between the powerhead and the ripsaw. The 372XP has this 'internal clutch' that's required for the coupling. The splines of the drive in the sw fit with the image here. Then a couple nuts and bolts to hold it together.


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## woodshop

woodho, tree, ray, your welcome. Believe it or not, I had to shorten that original first post by about 1/3 because the site has a 10,000 char limit, so I left some things out, shortened other paragraphs a bit. As you can see from my posts, I can get a bit wordy. Ray the Ripsaw comes in two flavors, Stihl and Husky/Jonsereds because the cast piece where the powerhead bolts to the Ripsaw to xmit the power to the bandsaw wheel has to fit the oil exit hole and bar studs exactly, and as you know Stihl and Husky do that slightly different, which is why you can't put a Stihl bar on a Husky saw. My ripsaw was built for Stihl, and thus looks a little different than tree machines in his pic last post. They are both similar though, in that there is an oil channel built into that aluminum casting that sends bar oil down into the spur gear that turns the bandsaw wheel. Even on the lowest setting of my MS351 there is always a little oil dripping from my ripsaw as I run down the log. I don't mind that... lets me know the Ripsaw gears are constantly bathed in oil. So to answer question Ray, on the Stihl version, a standard spur sprocket mates to the Ripsaw, and you can see the Husky version in Tree machines pic. They supply one when you buy the Ripsaw an specify which saw you will be using. Not EVERY saw fits on the Ripsaw, but most big ones do. Maybe they refined their website since I bought mine, but they were not all up to date so just because you don't see your exact saw doesn't mean it won't mate to the Ripsaw. Again, they only make two versions. Example, on the website while ago, they didn't list the MS361 as a saw option, it had just hit the Stihl dealers months before that, I had been using an 036 on the thing, so I called and asked. Turns out the spur gear for an MS361 is same as 044. They were nice enough to just send me one gratis, although any Stihl dealer or aftermarket would have worked, Bailey's has some spur gears I think.

It takes me about 10 minutes to go from chainsaw to Ripsaw. Pop off the chain/bar, unscrew and take off inner side plate, unscrew and remove dog, replace floating sprocket with spur sprocket and mate to saw with standard bar nuts. You're ready to mill.

Ray you asked how and what do I use to keep wood from splitting... do you mean keeping the wet stickered lumber from splitting as its drying?

more pics various ripsaw sessions last few years


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## ray benson

Hi Woodshop,
I have read about using different sealers on the end of the wood. I have saved 4 to 8 ft. logs for a buddy and all but 1 have split or cracked. Thought you might have tried some different sealers.


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## Tree Machine

Paint. Be generous.


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## woodshop

ray benson said:


> Hi Woodshop,
> I have read about using different sealers on the end of the wood. I have saved 4 to 8 ft. logs for a buddy and all but 1 have split or cracked. Thought you might have tried some different sealers.


I am not a big fan of end sealers, but not because I don't think they work well. I have used latex paint with fairly good success. I know of folks who use the wax based good stuff. But if you read the tech papers, they will tell you in order for it to work real well you need to seal immediately after cutting. Apparently as few as couple hours drying is enough to start small cracks forming. Many of my "free" trees are blowdowns or have been already cut into logs by a tree company or power line hack, and have been laying on ground for a bit by time I get to them. To be honest, I get so much wood for free, blowdowns etc... that I accept the slight loss I get from some of my wood degrading from cracking etc. At this point, just don't have time to fuss with that unless its a particularly valuable tree.


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## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> You're helping enlighten a lot of guys with a truly unique, and do-able system. Feed us some more photos !


tree machine... that log carrier in your ripsaw-7 pic... tell us more about it. Was looking into one to tow behind the ATV. Even thought of maybe fabricating my own. btw, nice stack of wood there. Looks like you're into this as much as I am.


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## ray benson

Hi Woodshop,
There was a very good thread just before you registered. Tree Machine posted quite a few pics with lots of info. Take a look at
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_3149.php
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=6331&highlight=log+hauler


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## Tree Machine

*me luvs me arches*

Thanks, Ray. Yea, that second thread got started in November 2002; almost 2 1-2 years ago. Wow. I reminisce because that was the very first thread I ever got really into at arboristsite. I think I had about 7 posts at that point. I had to run out and buy Photoshop, and learn it, just so I could hang with you dogs. The first few arch posts on that thread are all messed up because I didn't know what the heck I was doing with the image software. But I got it figgered out.

Thank you for hanging with me in that, (sniff) 'newbie moment'.

Anyway, yea, that's where I'd have sent you. Answers your arch questions fer sher.

The arches, if you can afford them, are a joy. I work alone for probably 19 out of 20 jobs, so for me the arches are like having specialized employees in wait, I just never have to pay them and they never, ever wuss out. Arches are amazing works of mechanics and physics. They're exceptional at doing what they're designed to do. In a personal milling operation, arches work a variety of jobs and amp the swiftness of moving bulk wood.

Here's a few pics I came across.

now lets get back on the topic of milling wood with Chainsaws and the RipSaw. Thanks for pulling this image up. It's one of my favorire shots, and represent a successful haul. This stuff under the arch was WoodMizer'd.


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## woodshop

Thanks tree, and Ray... NEAT stuff... I especially like that last pic, slab5, the bench. a man of my ilk... as I usually over-engineer stuff, if only because I can, and want it to outlast me. ( I designed and built a 2-story garage on my property, the county inspector looked at it and told me it would be here 200 years from now)

OK so whats the damage on that carrier? I have a 2" ball on my minivan, that thing would do wonders grabbing a log from somewhere that would be inconvenient to mill where it sits. As you know, milling takes time, makes a lot of mess with its fine sawdust, and of course is noisy. Some folks you don't want to foist that upon. Can you pop me the website for your particular brand and model? 

Also... before we get too fairy-tale land here... its important to note that as with everything in life, there are some downsides to milling using my system. For one thing, you have to be pretty organized about your setup. All the pieces have to fit together, and it take a few Ripsaw sessions before it melds and you get efficient and come home with a couple hundred bd ft of wet lumber. I have spent all day putzing in the woods and come home with only a handful of boards. Things don't always flow smoothly. It does fill that niche though, between zero and a $10k pull behind bandmill, for less than $3K, and its extreme portability is where it really shines. 

Milling an 8ft long 32" oak this Sat... will take more pics and post for those interested.


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## woodshop

OK THANKS... checked out that website from other post... ouch... not cheap huh. But if it does the job, it will pay for itself eventually. An investment. Need to look into it more.


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## Tree Machine

*Rrrrrrrr.*

CRAP ! I just wrote a hole slug of info to go along with these pictures, and it was all lost when my 'browser unexpectedly quit'.  I'll have to get back with that later, but here are the 'uncaptioned images'.

WoodShop, we know you've got many, many more pics. Feed us the nourishment we need.


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## ray benson

Looks like 2 different log haulers in the pics , arch 5 batch 5-1 and attachment 3149.They have a really nice design.


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## Tree Machine

Yes, two different sizes. I would recommend,understanding what I know of this topic, is the smaller arch with the bigger one's tires. This is an option you only need request. Let's talk more about milling !


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## woodho

Guys,
I'm loving this thread. Please keep posting more discussion and pics. 
TREE, love that bench.

Woodho


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## Tree Machine

WoodShop hasn't shown us all of his beautiful nuggets. Nor have I. I'm thinkin this thread might go on for awhile.


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## woodshop

Should have titled this thread, "woodshop/tree machine milling pic marathon"...  or maybe "you TOO can be a one man sawmill operation on the cheap"

This is how I get 1000 lb logs up and onto those custom horses so easier to mill. Floor jack gets it off ground till its almost upright, then cant hook can straiten it out. Make sure you have a chock ready on other side or it will continue on over, taking our your foot or anything else in its path.


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## woodshop

"more more more... how do ya like it how do ya like it... more more more... how do ya like it how do ya like it" (think early 70's... female vocalist... name escapes me now)


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## ORclimber

Excellent thread gentlemen :Eye:


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## Tree Machine

I'm finding it to be a valued learning experience.


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## woodshop

wow... tree... gorgeous lumber... where did you get that nice oak with nary a limb... and only a little band of sapwood, rest good stuff. That's a peeler for sure. You're lucky to have a bunch of guys help you push that on around. This one man operation would have been dead in the water if I couldn't have milled right where it lay. Ever figure out how many board ft of lumber you got out of that thing? Looks like premium stuff. Other than benches, have anything specific for that stash of lumber in last pic? Or are you like me, building up a wood "bank"... kindof a stash for future use. Problem with stashing away lumber, is that if you don't take care of it, it degrades. Over time insects, forms of rot, weather all take a toll. You have to have a place for it. I'm in the process of building an 8x16 platform that I plan to store lumber, heavy tarp cover, but it will breath so it won't rot.


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## Tree Machine

I never calculated board feet, but the unfortunate thing is it all the wood from those Giant oak logs got stolen. Very bummer. Lesson: Don't store valable stuff on other peoples' property

I went from one-man operation to hiring a guy for the day, and of course the sawyer, and then other people showed up out of curiosity and I put them to work, I was running video cam that day. I'm not used to a crew either. It was a Woodmizer day.

:Eye: Gotta catch some shuteye.


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## tawilson

I too am enjoying this thread. I'm just putting the finishing touches on a manual bandsaw, and have a small Alaskan mill and want to start being creative with my woodlot. Totally green with this woodworking stuff tho. 
Tree Machine, when you make stuff like the bench, do you let the slabs dry for a while or do you do it green? I was thinking if it was green, maybe it tightens up the joints while it dries, but maybe also it would be more prone to warp and twist. I've got a variety of trees to work with, but mostly hemlock. I slabbed some up last year just for benches and such and it seemed to work ok. It twisted a bit during the summer.


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## Tree Machine

Green. Like in this cute bench example. The lady wanted a piece of the wood for 'the memory'. She was pickin around in the scraps and I said, "You give me ten minutes. I'll make you something nice."

Of course, it took longer than 10 minutes but that's not the point here at all.

To watch your client's almost pee with excitement as you're creating this thing in front of their eyes, I would have to say is beyond the point of money or time. It's one of those crowning treeguy moments.

I got the pictires, not of the client dancing in circles and applauding, but of the pictures. This bench is the gift that keeps on giving. Very, simple. Over ten, but under 20 minute, welcome to bench-making 101.


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## woodshop

tawilson said:


> I too am enjoying this thread. I'm just putting the finishing touches on a manual bandsaw, and have a small Alaskan mill and want to start being creative with my woodlot. Totally green with this woodworking stuff tho.
> Tree Machine, when you make stuff like the bench, do you let the slabs dry for a while or do you do it green? I was thinking if it was green, maybe it tightens up the joints while it dries, but maybe also it would be more prone to warp and twist. I've got a variety of trees to work with, but mostly hemlock. I slabbed some up last year just for benches and such and it seemed to work ok. It twisted a bit during the summer.


In general, wood shrinks as it dries. How much depends on species and orientation of cut (plainsawn or quartersawn), with quatersawn shrinking the least. That said, on large slabs, depending on how they are attached to each other, tenons or whatnot, you might be able to get away with doing it green. I saw an article in one of the woodworking mags about somebody who makes rustic tables and chairs out of green saplings and small branches. The piece moves a little as it dries, but stays together.

Major bummer about your wood being stolen Tree... I can relate though. When a logger in 1982 I was selling firewood on the side and I had just cut and split by hand about 2 cords of oak and was storing in shed of a friend. Shed was close to a road and one night somebody took off with it. Lot of work just to keep a thief warm.

Water under the bridge...

tawilson what do you mean by a "manual bandsaw"?


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## woodshop

Tree... I would be interested in seeing how you attach your slabs... got any closeup pics of that?


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## Tree Machine

I'm sure I do. Attach slabs of what to what?

And yea, T.A., are you talking a big, ol upright bandsaw? This can be done successfully, seen it done in a commercial shop, quite successfully, I might add. Share with us.


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## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> I'm sure I do. Attach slabs of what to what?


...interesting quick and dirty bench 101... now I gotta try that next time I'm in the woods. Simple.

Bench I was referring to was this one... how do you attach the back to the sides in this one... don't see any tenon in the side pieces, or am I just not seeing it.


----------



## Tree Machine

You would have to ask me about this one. This is the only picture of a bench that I did not personally make. Elizabeth and I were heading down to a caving trip, and I saw this beauty along the way in someone's front yard.

I am guessing it is blind tenon joinery, going only partially through the vertical plank, possibly secured from the backside by skinny lags or stainless screws. Just a guess. Great question, though.


----------



## tawilson

By manual bandsaw I meant one that has no hydraulics. A friend made it a few years ago and sold his woodlot before he finished it. I got him to bring it down to my property and hope to put it to use. I sawed up a few logs last year but didn't have time to get into it like I wanted to. He did a good job and I just had to put some finishing touches on it, like log clamps and dogs and a lube system. It is 24" between the guides(I can gain another 4" with a little cutting and welding) and the bed is 20' long. I should have it ready to go this weekend. I've got a pile of hemlock logs and a cherry and maple log sitting next to it ready to saw.


----------



## woodshop

tawilson said:


> By manual bandsaw I meant one that has no hydraulics. A friend made it a few years ago and sold his woodlot before he finished it. I got him to bring it down to my property and hope to put it to use. I sawed up a few logs last year but didn't have time to get into it like I wanted to. He did a good job and I just had to put some finishing touches on it, like log clamps and dogs and a lube system. It is 24" between the guides(I can gain another 4" with a little cutting and welding) and the bed is 20' long. I should have it ready to go this weekend. I've got a pile of hemlock logs and a cherry and maple log sitting next to it ready to saw.


got any pics Tom?... now I'm curious what it looks like. What powers it?


----------



## Tree Machine

You go, Man ! We'd love to see you get that thing a chuggin. Do take pics.


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## tawilson

I've got some pics kicking around somewhere. Can't seem to find them right now. I'm going to work on it this weekend so I'll take some new ones. It has a gas 13hp Honda turning a centrifigul clutch which runs a belt to one of the bandwheels. I think he copied a Norwood mill a friend of his had. He did a good job and even improved some things from the Norwood. It's got some serious steel framing under it. I just clamped some hemlock,pine and soft maple logs on it with c-clamps and wedges to saw them up last year to see how it worked. Plus I needed some sides for my dump trailer. Once you experienced fellas see it I'm sure you'll have some ideas for improving it some more. One thing I started batting around in my head this week is trying to use the carriage and rail to surface slabs. Maybe mount a 3" surface planer on a rail you can slide across the carriage. Course I better saw a few logs into slabs before I worry about smoothing them out!


----------



## woodshop

tawilson, I have surfaced some rather large pieces using a 3hp router sitting on a movable fence that rides down rails or "box" you construct around the object. Kindof hard to explain, but works well, just slow. You move the router back and forth across the piece as you slide the fence down half inch at a time. This gets you a fairly flat surface, but nothing close to planer, so some sanding is still necessary.


----------



## tawilson

Woodshop,
I've heard of doing it that way. That's actually what got me thinking about using the sawmill. I've already got the rails and carriage. I was just thinking a 3" planer would cover more territory per pass. I tried using a molding head cutter with a flat bit on a radial arm saw. It worked pretty good considering the rinky dink way I had it set up. It was just an experiment.


----------



## trimmmed

A 3" power planer will work very well. Same principle as the router but much faster


----------



## Newfie

For $300 a 12" portable planer will work even better and save 18 million years of time. TIME IS MONEY.


----------



## woodshop

Only catch there might be with the power planer, is depth. When I flattened a cross section of tree using this meathod with the router and 3/4" strait bit, the surface was pretty rough, as it was cut with chainsaw flat as I could, but still was as much as 1/2 inch difference from place to place on surface of wood. Depending on how deep a cut you can set that power planer, and obviously how true the surface is to begin with, you might have to do several passes. One more thing... most power planers use standard tool steel blades, like jointer or bench planer. Carbide router bits, although you can't get them as sharp as steel planer blade, wear much better. I like your concept though twilson... send us some pics when and if you get that set up, I would be interested in seeing it work.


----------



## woodshop

Newfie said:


> For $300 a 12" portable planer will work even better and save 18 million years of time. TIME IS MONEY.[/QUOTE
> yes if it's small enough to run through a planer... go for it, except for snipe problems, quick and dirty. I was assuming this piece was too large to fit in a planer. The slab of tree I did was over 2 ft across... I only have a 15" planer, thus the router method.


----------



## trimmmed

Newfie said:


> For $300 a 12" portable planer will work even better and save 18 million years of time. TIME IS MONEY.




Newfie, I think we were talking about bigger wood. Even if the wood would fit thru a 12" planer either one side has to be flat (joined) or you have to make a sled/jig that will support the uneveness of thebottom of the board. If the piece is longer than 3-4' that jig starts getting too big. So the powerplaner and the router methods, and I've done both, have a place. Not that fast granted, but doable.


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## tawilson

Here's the pic of the sawmill. I cropped and resized it so I hope it shows up ok.
Yeah, I was talking about smoothing out slabs like for a coffee table or such. That's down the road a bit. First I gots to get some sawing under my belt. That cherry I just stuck on there to see how the clamps and squaring things worked. I'm not ready to saw it yet. Plus I want to practice on the pile of hemlocks that are behind me as I took the pic before I start whacking on the valuable stuff. 
Woodshop,
thanks for letting me clutter up your most excellent thread with my rookie don't know what I'm doing yet stuff.


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## woodshop

Sharp looking mill Tom... and my mouth is watering looking at that cherry log you have sitting there. Here in PA the retailers are getting $5-7 bucks a foot for s2s cherry depending on grade. More than that for wide stuff. From a distance at least, that looks like a darn good cherry log. You're looking at couple thousand bucks worth of cherry in that log once you mill it, dry it and run it through a planer. When you get it fully operational, take some more pics and post them here. I'd be interested in some shots of the engine/drive train. 

btw, another way I've seen to "plane" rough slabs we were talking about above, is a router on the end of a swing arm that you would swing back and forth over your slab. Saw a retired logger out in Oregon do it this way for large slices of redwood and cedar he would then make into tables. He made a box frame out of 2x4's that he would screw to the bottom of the slab, and that box would slide on another 2x4 box frame bolted to the floor under the swing arm. So he could plane a section of the slab, slide it over and plane another section etc etc. 

keep us posted Tom


----------



## tawilson

Thanks woodshop,
My friend did a heck of a job on it. I took a few pics today. Here's a couple of the drive train. I'm trying to Macgiver up a lube system on it. I want to put some lube on both sides of the blade. We'll see how it works when it warms up a little. I need to take advantage of the snow and frozen ground to drag some logs out for a while. 
That cherry is over 16' and 14" diameter at the smallest point. There's a spilt at the end towards the saw so I'll probably lose a couple of feet there. Any thoughts on how to cut it up? I don't think I need 14' boards. Would you leave them that long? And probably just square it up and flatsaw? I'll just find a spot to air dry the boards till I find a use for them. If I get the time I would like to get a solar kiln put together before summer.


----------



## woodshop

tawilson said:


> Thanks woodshop,
> That cherry is over 16' and 14" diameter at the smallest point. Any thoughts on how to cut it up? I don't think I need 14' boards.


Interesting Tom... thanks for the pics... as for how to slice that cherry log, depends on what you want to do with the wood. There is an article in the Jan/Feb Sawmill & Woodlot mag (www.sawmillmag.com) that talks specifically about sawing cherry, although its mostly about the different yields you get from the different scales. Quartersawn cherry has some beautiful ray fleck but you often end up wasting some of the log to get it. To be honest, I'm not the guy to ask. I'm sure there are REAL sawyers in the forum that can tell you the best way to slice that log. No, I wouldn't keep it 14 ft, but for grade, I think you want to keep at least one log 8 ft.


----------



## Tree Machine

*Love Cherry!*

Thanks for the magazine link, Wilson.

Very cool, Tom. I think you'll have a lot of fun with that mill once you're dialled in and up and running.

As far as lubricating that blade, I never knew this until I had a Woodmizer bandmill onsite; the lubricant is water. I hope I'm not illuminating something really obvious, but I'm very much a newbie in this arena and it came as a surprise to me that they didn't lube with an oil.

My sawguy said to me, Metal on wood, water. Metal on metal, oil.

Well, OK then. Fair enough.


----------



## tawilson

It was woodshop that put the link up there. As far as the lubricant, there's differing opinions on that. I have found that at least one mill manufacturer recommends a bar/diesel oil mix. There was recently a thread on the forestry forum on this and after reading everyone's opinion the oil mix is what I'm going with for now. I used water on my test run's last year with no problem but I like the idea of a layer of oil on my blade when I'm done sawing for rust prevention. I haven't tried it yet so my opinion may change. Nice log you got behind you there. What size and how did you saw it?


----------



## Tree Machine

Sounds like petro-contaminated wood and sawdust. For the sake of my own selfish environmental concerns, as well as health (you're breathing in the area), mebbe try water, replace with oil for the last couple cuts? Remember, the sawdust has to go <i>somewhere</i>.

I've seen the Woodmizer LT-40 running through logs so immensely big that we had to pre-cut a slab so it would fit on the mill. Then he moved the band through the material at feed rates almost unthinkable. Water was the sole lubricant.

You can soak a rag in oil after the session and wipe band blades free of moisture and get an absolute coating on the blade.

WD-40 (or whatever) for bearings. Unless there is concern of your lubricant tank / delivery tubes freezing solid I would personally nudge you towards a free, non-toxic alternative. However, there may be considerations of which I'm not remotely aware. I've only done milling (outside of that with a chainsaw) only abou 20 times, so I only know what I've done and seen and the great stuff you guys are sharing. It's up to you, so that's all I'm gonna say on the subject.

This image shows the lube tube, as well as the answer to your last question.


----------



## Tree Machine

*Givin away the farm*

You were asking what I did with the cherry log. I gave that one away to the hippies in the above. I gave them a slug of the hardwood coming off the WoodMizer, and I gave them the log in the pic shown below.

These guys are specialists in creating drums, which they make with beveled staves. They were buying wood at retail prices, they had a shop, plenty of covered space for wood storage, a slew of apprentices wanting to learn the craft of drummaking. They lacked wood.

I had them out to help tail boards and kick them down a few planks of tropical and aquaint them with what's involved in the process whose instructions, at the end of the day, looked like this:

Get a bunch of logs, call the Woodmizer guy. 

I offered to provide free logs to further their cause. They were very stoked.

After about 6 logs of varying species, they begged "No more". They got the Woodmizer guy in, and now they have YEARS worth of wood curing, stacked, stickered and waiting for use.

Below is a clear, hard maple they enjoyed. I loaned my arch, he came to the jobsite and took it away. Good for me, good for them.


----------



## woodshop

Tree... LOVE the pics... keep them coming. Hey I WANT one of those arches... just have to have one now after seeing your pics and how it works... thats all there is to it. The possibilities for logs in this area are endless, tree guys are glad to not have to haul them away or chip them. I just have to find a way to scrounge up $2,500 for it. Don't have room for a stationary bandmill like tawilson's where I live now, or I would invest in one of them. Lots of possibilities though if I had that arch to grab trees before they hit the chipper or boneyard, bring them home and mill at my leisure. 

Have to agree on water for the bandmill, and then clean it up with an oily rag and water displacing WD-40 when done. But hey Wilson, far be if from me to tell somebody what to do.


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## eyeinstine

TM,

I want to know how the hell you stood that big arse log up in the middle of the road! Must have made a hell of a thud when you pushed it over! 

Ron


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## Tree Machine

Well, I could tell ya, then I'd have to kill ya. It's a highly coveted trade secret, to be divulged by Masters to their indentured apprentices after many years of dedicated study.  



woodshop said:


> tree guys are glad to not have to haul them away or chip them....... if I had that arch to grab trees before they hit the chipper or boneyard, bring them home and mill at my leisure.


 That's the idea, Sir.

I don't know what wood sells for, and I'm sure it varies from area to area, and specie to specie, but if a tractor arch was able to allow you to bring home several thousand dollars worth of free logs, then I'd say it speaks of it's own worth. Plus then you can deliver stacked and stickered wood without having to unstack and resticker TWICE (your site, trailer, their site). Time is money, the less you have to handle, the more you earn.


----------



## woodshop

oh... hey Tree... there is NO doubt that it would eventually pay for itself, just as my Ripsaw and alsakan has at this point. So have the "toys" in my woodhsop. There is still that small detail of having the $2500 cash to lay down for it initially. After taxes and going to get it or having it shipped... probably closer to $3k. I don't like to go into debt for stuff like that. Cars, houses... ok, necessary, but Ripsaws and log haulers, unless its part of my business I can write off, not. Got one daughter in college, and two more right behind her. OUCH... 

Lots of things in life to tug at your wallet. Lets put it this way. I'm only 51... I will eventually own a Woodmizer pulled behind a 1 1/2 ton stake truck, a log hauler, and enough space to store all the wood I mill. Trick is to still be healthy enough to work them at that point  

yeah I wanna know how you stood that trunk up there too... you had to have borrowed Masterblasters crane or when that thing dropped it would have made a hole in that macadam a VW bug would get lost in.


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## tawilson

Tree Machine,
that is very cool what you did for the hippies. I think good turns like that have a tendency to come back at you.
I appreciate the advise on the lube too. I'll probably do a little experimenting and chances are there isn't a rats arse difference and the way to go will be the cheapest/easiest. For what it's worth, I don't consider sawdust of any type to be good for my lungs so I usually wear a respirator whether using the chainsaw or the mill.


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## woodshop

tawilson said:


> For what it's worth, I don't consider sawdust of any type to be good for my lungs so I usually wear a respirator whether using the chainsaw or the mill.


Breathe deep the gathering gloom...


----------



## Tree Machine

I really should wear respiration gear, or at least the new pleated particle masks they have out. But alas, I am not currently very wise in this department, as shown by the first image.


The second image shows a bit more of what's going on with the vertical log. In the pic is that same hippie.

I should explain the first image, actually, it has nothing to do with this thread except that I'm guilty of not wearing a respirator when I should've. Oh, skip it.


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## glens

I guess I didn't think of the water on a bandsawmill as being a lubricant so much as a coolant.

It's also important to wear goggles to keep the fines out of your eyes, especially if you're using a thin(ner) kerf band.

Jim, if you can levitate trees that well, why do you need the arch?&nbsp; And why don't you go by "TreeMagic"?

Glen


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## ray benson

That second pic would look really slick if you were bear hugging the tree holding it up.


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## Tree Machine

A hot bear like this?


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## ray benson

A mindreader, you must have had that pic ready to post.


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## Newfie

Tree Machine said:


> Unless there is concern of your lubricant tank / delivery tubes freezing solid I would personally nudge you towards a free, non-toxic alternative.



The guys from woodmizer delivered my mill in November and use windshield wiper fluid during the cold weather. Works like a charm and is relatively inexpensive.


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## Tree Machine

So howza bout some pictures of that new mill, eh? C'mon, feed us. Kick em down....

Wiper fluid, right on. That would work.

Glen mentions thinking the blade fluid more of as a coolant than a lubricant. Ever thought about dust control, Glen?


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## woodshop

...take a DEEP breath and hold it... now relax... now another one... ok relax... now turn your head and cough for me... tell me again how long you've had this dull pain in your chest?


----------



## Tree Machine

Does that RipSaw really work as well as you show it?


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## glens

Tree Machine said:


> Ever thought about dust control, Glen?


Got me there, Jim!&nbsp; Would oil or water make better dust control, do you think?


----------



## Newfie

Tree Machine said:


> So howza bout some pictures of that new mill, eh? C'mon, feed us. Kick em down....
> 
> Wiper fluid, right on. That would work.
> 
> Glen mentions thinking the blade fluid more of as a coolant than a lubricant. Ever thought about dust control, Glen?




Definitlely helps w/ dust control and sap build-up on the blade. I don't think I even have any pictures of the mill. Guess I'll have to fix that. Course then I might actually have to try posting pictures.  What's next? an avatar?


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## Tree Machine

You don't need no steenking avatar !


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## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> Does that RipSaw really work as well as you show it?


Define "work as well". As I cautioned in prior thread, it works well once you have a "system" and everything is dialed in and organized. The first time you walk into the woods, cold turkey and clueless as I was at first, you won't go home with 400 bd ft of lumber that first day. Took lots of mistakes and trial and error till I got efficient. Speed... as I said in my original intro, with a sharp blade you can push the thing through 14 inch wide oak at about 2 ft/min. Thin stuff, or soft like pine, and you can double that. Still a snails pace compared with newfie's woodmizer. In small stuff, my 395xp with rip chain in the Alaskan beats the ripsaw at speed, but of course you waste more, and not as smooth lumber. So when you ask does it work as well... don't know what your point of reference is... all I can tell you is what I have been able to do at this point. As I said, I can go from tree to 3-400 bd ft of lumber in the back of my van with a hard days work. Hey not going to kid anybody... s#it happens... stuff breaks... saw gets balky... you forget things... you step into a bees next and waste half hour clearing that away trying not to get stung... etc etc etc. Like my gages at work, no two are exactly alike, most are custom built and have their idiosyncrasies, as do tree takedowns, as to Ripsaw milling sessions. I can expound on any part of my system... just ask away.. have no reason to BS anybody


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## Riddler

Hey, nothing to add, just a great big thanks for all the great info and pictures emerging from this thread. Since a year ago, I have been enjoying a new country place that has lots of Coast Redwood, Doug Fir, California Laurel and several different types of Oak on it. The wooded areas have not been managed much over last 20 years, leaving a number of dead, dying or misplaced specimens to focus upon. After acquiring some of the essential forest maintanence and firewood equipment (e.g., chainsaws, spliter, work vehicles, etc.), I was beginning to become curious about personal milling. Needless to say, because of this thread, I believe I have reached the point of no return.


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## woodshop

Riddler said:


> I was beginning to become curious about personal milling. Needless to say, because of this thread, I believe I have reached the point of no return.


You're welcome Riddler... once you do start down that road, it does get addicting. You will find yourself buying bigger saws to justify your "habit". Bailey's catalog will find its way into the pile of mags next to the throne, and you will find yourself spending hours using the search function going through old threads about mix ratios and sharpening techniques... mixed in with the... "human element" shall we say. If you do want to take the plunge and buy a small mill for personal use, feel free to PM or ask away. Don't expect it to perform like a sawmill, see it for what it is. That being an excuse to use chainsaws in the woods, a way to burn some calories without having to walk on some stupid boring machine in a gym for hours, but with some rough lumber as icing on the cake for your efforts after a hard days work. 
Dave


----------



## Tree Machine

*Ahh, the human element*



woodshop said:


> ... once you do start down that road, it does get addicting. You will find yourself buying bigger saws to justify your "habit". Bailey's catalog will find its way into the pile of mags next to the throne, and you will find yourself spending hours using the search function going through old threads about mix ratios and sharpening techniques... mixed in with the... "human element" shall we say.
> Dave


The 'human element'..... that would be you wife going, "Are you on arborsite again??? I thought you were going to quit milling logs!! Why don't you use the lumber you've got?? You're addicted to that frickin site! I'm going to castrate you with the next Husqvarna you buy!"  

Or did you mean the crowd here ? Oh..... heh heh.


----------



## rb_in_va

Tree Machine said:


> The 'human element'..... that would be you wife going, "Are you on arborsite again??? I thought you were going to quit milling logs!! Why don't you use the lumber you've got?? You're addicted to that frickin site!



That sounds like my wife! Only she says "what are you going to do with the lumber you mill?" To which I say, "uh...maybe I can sell it!"


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## Tree Machine

I have a hard time thinking of selling it. I've put too much heart, soul and sweat into it to take the time off work to let some stranger pick through the stack in exchange for some green, rectangular pieces of paper; and this would be after calling him back, coordinating our schedules and being there to help pick out, price, haggle and help load. <i>This is just my personal circumstance</i>, though selling the wood, for most, would be the preferred route to go. For me, selling the wood is an expense, possibly a break-even at best, and at the end of it all, I don't have the wood.

Don't let me dissuade anyone, however. There is much joy in it, and as with Woodshop, he'll consistently add to his stock and some day when lumber prices are high, he'll be sitting on a gold mine, a better investment than he could have gotten in the stock market, and the satisfaction of having gotten his money the old-fashioned way.... he <i>earned</i> it. Wood, stored properly, has a shelf-life of a long, long time.


----------



## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> Wood, stored properly, has a shelf-life of a long, long time.


I actually did sell a little of my wood, but I'm with Tree... I worked too hard for it, too much blood sweat and tears into my stash. I really don't WANT to sell it. If I sold it for what the retail people get, I would be making some money. Even with transportation thrown in (assuming I don't have to drive across the state to get it), and depreciating my mills over 10 years, and paying myself $20/hr, it still averages out to about a buck or buck and half a bd ft. S2S red oak is going for about $4, cherry around $6... and for the 12 and 14 inch wide 8/4 or 12/4 stuff, WAY more than that. The stuff that is worth serous bucks, I might sell if I get a buyer, but I'm not looking for one. 

For the record, I am fortunate to have a pretty understanding wife of 25 years marriage. As I said before, if I make a piece of furniture/picture frame for her or family once in a while, I get no grief for the time or money spent on chainsaws or woodworking machines. (...well within reason of course). I think she figures there are worse things a woman could have a husband be involved in.  I have started to make a few bucks at shows also with my woodworking, and she likes that part too.


----------



## Newfie

woodshop said:


> I think she figures there are worse things a woman could have a husband be involved in.



Aren't sensible women great!


----------



## woodshop

Newfie said:


> Aren't sensible women great!


yessseree, worth their weight in bar oil, ain't they


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## Tree Machine

They can be a gas !


----------



## Riddler

Well, with the "call of the slab" beckoning, I need to learn a little about how to "process" the particular trees I have. I would hate to spend a lot time with the new mill only to find out that the boards I generate should have been cut or dried differently. 

Is there a good woodworking site where folks might share their knowledge and experience on the best way to cut, cure and ultimately use particular woods? Right now, my best candidates for milling are some mature California Laurel (aka Oregon Myrtle or just myrtlewood) and some semi-mature Coast Redwood. I was hoping I might be able to use the Laurel I mill for decorative building material (e.g., interior trim, a fireplace mantel, built-in cabinetry, etc.). If Laurel performs well in those roles, what are the best dimensions to mill (assuming I have the logs to accommodate these dimensions) and what is the optimum way to store what I mill until I get around to processing the wood further? Of course, how I get the milled, dried wood to the finished product is another topic altogether.

I appreciate that these topics are somewhat involved, and it is certainly not my intent to hijack this thread in order to explore them. I was simply hoping to get some suggestions on where I might go to get some good advice. The only woodworking I have done in the past has been rather simple and has utilized wood stock that was already "processed," if you know what I mean. Now that I have considerable raw material of my own to play with, I need to go to school on how to handle it. From what I'm reading, getting my wife and family to bless by milling obsession may depend on how quickly I generate something useful from these beautiful logs I have laying around.


----------



## woodshop

Well... what I can do it tell you where I got a lot of my information. Besides gleaning forums on the web and talking to others, much of my wood structure and drying information came from a book by Bruce Haodley called "Understanding Wood". He takes you through the gamut of wood structure, its moisture content, what happens when wood dries, is machined etc etc. GREAT book, about my fav one along these lines. There is also a book (large paperback) called "Wood and How to Dry It" put out by Taunton Press. They basically took 41 articles relating to the subject from Fine Woodworking Mag over the years and put them together in 1986. As such, a few of the illustrations and information, being 20 yrs old, are a little out of date. Much of it is not however, and of course some info is as good today as it was 100 years ago. There are others, but off the top of my head those two come to mind first.


----------



## Riddler

I am anxious to get a good book or two on the subject. Thanks a bunch for the suggestions.


----------



## NorCalCutters#3

How many Brd. Ft. can this thing do in a day? Are you a speed Typer by the way?


----------



## caryr




----------



## dayman

Riddler,

Search this thread and find the site that Dr. Wengert hosts. The sawmilling site is open to hobby sawyers. First, search their archives to see if the topic has been discussed before. 

There's also a Yahoo! "group/milling/links" that is dedicated to amateur sawyers.

I hope that I didn't break any of the rules on AS for posting links. If so, let me know in this thread and I'll stop.


----------



## Newfie

dayman said:


> I hope that I didn't break any of the rules on AS for posting links.




Probably. Fair exchange of info seems to be taboo. I wonder if Darin's sponsors will "protect" him when we've all had enough and go elsewhere.


----------



## geofore

www.woodweb.com


----------



## woodshop

NorCalCutters#3 said:


> How many Brd. Ft. can this thing do in a day? Are you a speed Typer by the way?


If you are asking about the Alaskan/Ripsaw mills, and the way I mill, what originally started this thread, the answer to how many bd ft per day you can mill depends on many factors. Some of which have been touched on in the thread already. In general, if you are starting from standing tree or one that is down but needs bucking and trimming, 300 bd ft is a good days take. You would be spending as much or more time prepping the log, trimming, milling with Alaskan getting it into cants as you would actually milling boards with the Ripsaw. If you had several 14" wide cants already prepared, just sitting there on blocks waiting to be Ripsawn I could see 600 bd ft or more, but you would be pretty beat up at the end of that day. This is hard work, as the Alaskan with 395XP is 42lb, and the Ripsaw is 47lbs. Hoisting them around all day, pushing them down the log umpteen times, and then handling those heavy wet boards will burn some calories quick. Bottom line is the two mills and the way I slice up logs doesn't even come close to the production of a full blown bandmill on a carriage. It was never designed to. It's unique niche is that it can be thrown in the back of a minivan, it is extremely portable and easy to set up, thus you can take the mill right to the log rather than the other way around. 

No, not a speed typer, consider myself average there.


----------



## woodshop

caryr said:


> One caveat, for those of use in the western half of the country the FPL material sometimes is not as complete as we would like.
> Cary


Cary, I have heard both from folks in the far northwest, the arid southwest and also from Florida where a plethora of tropical species grow, that the FPL is slightly biased towards the temperate Appalachian and central US species. Nature of the beast I suppose.


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## Tree Machine

*One place to sell your lumber*

Here's a <a href=http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/lumber.pl> price listing</a> for all sorts of species. I found this interesting. You may be able to find buyers for your lumber through this place.


----------



## woodshop

thanks tree... interesting to see what different kinds of wood sell for (or at least what they are asking...) in different parts of the country. IF I was to sell some of my nicer stuff to make a few bucks... this might be the place to try. This confirmed cherry is still through the roof in many places.


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## Oregon_Native

alright i got sucked in to milling now.

probably seen pics of my mini chainsaw mill in chainsaw forum. 

i am primarily milling softwood, but i know of a few hard wood stumps that need to be turned in to gun stocks.

was wondering if any one has good suggestion on how to do this.


----------



## woodshop

Oregon, I too had some valuable but small chunks of wood that needed milling. Not saying you want to go to this much trouble, but I built a rig that has a movable guide bar that my mill rides on, that can be used to milll small pieces. I use a Ripsaw, but an alaskan would also work with this thing. Slice off those walnut stumps, and sit them in a rig like mine and go to town. If you are interested in duplicating it, I can post some more detailed pics of that rig. You can see a pic of it earlier in this thread, file is ripsaw14.

Other than that, milling small pieces is tough, you have to find a way to secure the chunk of wood, and then find a way to attach a long enough guide on that small piece to get a strait cut, not easy. For small stuff I also use a resaw bandsaw, but if you are not into woodworking, you won't have one of them sitting around either.


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## Tree Machine

Are the stumps still in the ground? Are you going after subterrannean wood, or the wood above ground in the buttress? Both will provide prize wood with exotic figuring.

Below-ground wood, of course, has it's challenges. We're not talking about the roots themselves, but rather the root ball area. Dirt is the biggest challenge here, as well as weight, awkward size and shape. It's also like a box of chocolates... "Ya never know what you're gonna get."

I'm going to assume you mean buttress wood, going downward a bit. This would mean (again I assume) a blown over tree, the log having been removed. The only reason I can speak with experience on this is I have to remove blow-overs in people's yards, where they want the stump out.

I'd first go after it with a sharp axe or hatchet, removing the roots and as much dirt as possible. If you can get the sucker in the back of a pickup, take it to a car wash, or bring a power sprayer to it. Or if you live near the ocean, put a cable around it and let it bang around in the surf for a couple days (yea, right). I have personally never done these things, but clearly it would get the dirt off and prepare it for milling. I can offer no more advice on this except to say removal of dirt is paramount.

Or you could use that same axe or hatches and strip it clean. Whittling a stump. Sounds like a lot of work. I do this on the exposed roots, giving a clean ring so I can detach the stump from the root using the chainsaw. Root cambium and phloem peels off, like a sheath, but this stops in the ball area. 

I also, very often, hatchet off a ring around the stump at the dirt line (pics attached). This keeps chain and dirt away from each other, and allows you to get a really low cut. You don't get below-the-ground wood, but you do get buttress wood, and the method is easy and practical and saves your chain.


----------



## woodshop

great pics Tree... good explanation. I too have axed away dirt/bark to get clean shot at bucking log or lopping off a root ball. I need to grind an axe like yours though, I just use a standard hand hatchet I keep in my milling box. 

I wanna see ya drag a root ball around in the surf... HA! Actually, the chunks of wood/root etc I do see on the Jersey shore from time to time DO look nice an clean other than some sand on them, as they've been beaten clean of everything else.


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## Tree Machine

*Milling with the grain*

Well, that would be the route I'd go. Take a trip to the beach and get something already clean.

Don't expect me to post pics of me dragging a rootball into the ocean.... at least not here in central Indiana.

That hatchet was manufactured that way. It's called a kindling hatchet and the unique shape




makes sense when thought of that way. The curve works really well when shaving off the dirt zone around the buttress, you just have to go around clockwise.

Anyway, I didn't finish answering the question about the actual milling as I got into the preparation, then got lost in my image library as I had to go back a few years to retrieve these photos.

OK, back to milling short stock and buttress wood. (this is the easy part)

Freehand with the longest bar you got. Mill lengthwise, <i>with the direction of the grain</i>, 90 degrees to the normal direction of milling. You can do this because the stock is short. You can get pretty flat with no Alaskan attachments whatsoever, nor even a milling chain. You're gonna get 'woodchips' or 'sawdust' (whatever you wanna call it) that looks like shredded mozzerella cheese, but the cut is fairly smooth, even using regular full-chisel chain.

I've done this many dozens of times because my firewood guys sometimes can't handle a firewood-length of lower trunk, so I'll turn it on it's side and cut it into two halves, and cutting each of those halves in half again creating fourths. Although it generates a large amount of 'bulky' shavings, the newly exposed wet wood pretty much shows off its full character right there on the spot. The procedure is swift because you're working with just the saw, no change to a chain, no attaching a mill setup. Also, cutting <u>with</u> the grain seems to go almost as fast as cutting across the grain. Cutting tangential to the grain (conventional mill ripping) is by far the slowest way to cut through wood.

The pics attached are from a tree where the client wanted the lowest cut possible on the trunk at a 4 inch thickness. Then the next cut, up the trunk at firewood length, cut into fourths to be used as the legs for the table. I have pics here for you of the general procedure, but not a single one of the finished product (that was an oversight, eh?)


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## Oregon_Native

i was thinking of power washing the root balls clean then cutting them to a managable size.


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## Tree Machine

Should be a fun mud-fest. there's lots of nooks, crannies and odd-shaped invaginations ya gotta blast out, otherwise you risk cutting through pockets of dirt.

Wear full face protection and swim trunks, but please, spare us the pictures of that!


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## Oregon_Native

i think that would be wise.

but i first have to find the stumps and get them out of the ground.

i will stick to the dough fir for now.

it there any rule to how thick one should cut a slab to be able to get 2" finished stock after planer pass.


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## woodshop

Oregon_Native said:


> is there any rule to how thick one should cut a slab to be able to get 2" finished stock after planer pass.


no set rule I know of, depends on species, whether is it quartersawn or flatsawn, and how carefully it is dried. I found milling 1 or 1 1/8 is plenty for finished 3/4 s2s as long as you don't twist it all up drying. The wood will shrink a bit, some species more than others. I found thicker slabs, say 2" or more, not only take longer to dry, but they also don't twist as much drying, so you might get away with as little as 3/8 over what you eventually want as finished slab.


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## Oregon_Native

well i went milling today not much to show but 2 slabs and some firewood.

found out my mill does flex a bit but if i support the powerhed right and hold the far end of the guide down it can cut square'er.

i am going to build a bigger mill with support at both ends when i get my Big McC.

hears the pics.


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## Tree Machine

Most excellent !


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## woodshop

Congratulations Oregon... you have been bitten by the millling bug, you will want MORE MORE MORE... bigger saws, bigger mills... soon you will be building platforms to store and dry your lumber. Fortunately, it never ends


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## Tree Machine

Just ask my wife.


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## Oregon_Native

i am looking at an SP 125 next week.


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## Oregon_Native

correction i bought my SP 125 now i just need a little longer bar and some ripping chain.


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## Tree Machine

Like dis, ya?


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## Oregon_Native

yep even looks like it has a helper handle.


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## Tree Machine

*Dual is cool.*





Sad. Hasn't been used in ages. For some reason to day I decide to take a picture of it.

That milled lumber to the right are a couple of 8x8's of oak (dark) sycamore (lace), and some 8/2 planks above, of persimmon.


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## woodshop

Tree what are you going to do with that Persimmon... I love that stuff as its VERY hard and dense. Same family as Ebony btw. In fact, on some older trees, the very center of the heartwood is dark black like ebony, but usually only a small streak of it. I have used it on some jigs where I need a piece that will take lots of wear, like the bottom catch of my pushsticks. It just doesn't wear 'cause its so hard.


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## Tree Machine

Woodshop, like so much of the milled wood I've got around, There's just no down-time in my life to do the things I like to do.

I was born the son of a contractor, and have been working with wood my whole life. It was always a fantasy that some day I could make planks from logs and create beautiful things from them.

Well, wish hard enough for something and it may come true. The milling of wood, the reclaiming / recycling of logs that would have otherwise been turned into firewood, I just love that. So much that I did it a couple dozen times. Now I am faced with the byproduct of the milling- the wood.

That's all. I don't have a clue what I'm going to do with it.


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## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> The milling of wood, the reclaiming / recycling of logs that would have otherwise been turned into firewood, I just love that. Now I am faced with the byproduct of the milling- the wood. That's all. I don't have a clue what I'm going to do with it.


Tree, we seem to share a common mentality, and that much we do have in common. Hate seeing a cherry log worth over $1000 in lumber being cut up for firewood, or fed into a chipper. Difference is I am old enough to think about retirement, and what happens then, and my stash of milled wood figures in to that. I plan to go full time with my woodshop to supplement my income, and thus the wood I mill, assuming I can keep it from bugs and rot, will feed that. I too am running out of storage space though. 6000 bd ft of lumber takes up a good bit of space and I live in the burbs, not a farm with acres of space for a pole barn full of lumber. Looking at options. As for time to do those things you always wanted to do... my take lately had been, TAKE the time, MAKE the time. Yes it costs money in other things not done, and other avenues might suffer, but years from now you will be glad you did. It boils down to priorities, like so many things. 

If I wasn't a good days drive from you Tree, might try and buy some of that persimmon from you if you were selling.


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## tawilson

Hey guys,
Nice day and I broke my tractor and parts won't be in till Thursday so I decided to fire the mill up. This was only a practice run today. Things went pretty well. I had only used the mill a few times last year and I was real rusty. I'll get tuned up over the next few days. This is one of a couple dozen pine logs that were given to me. I've also got a dozen hemlock logs also. My mission for now is boards for shelving. I figure if I put up enough shelves maybe I'll get a little more organized. After I get the bugs worked out and a new blade on I'll start on the maple and cherry I've got sitting around.


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## woodshop

I wish I had the room for a mill like that, I would go into hoc to either make or buy one. Hemlock... maybe you will have better luck, but the one hemlock I milled and dried had lots of shake, along growth ring lines, lots of cracks and splits, and was weak wood. Difficult to work in woodshop. Maybe I just got a bad log. 

How fast can you push that thing through pine? Ever timed it?


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## tawilson

No, but I'll time it today.
Not a woodworker but I am sure hemlock would be hard to work with. Brittle. We've framed a few sheds and built a dock out of it. Screws work better than nails. Shake and splits weren't too bad. Don't know for sure but I think the older/bigger trees are more susceptible.
If the owner of this mill ever wants it back I'd have to come up with another for sure.
The pine was cut last year so I wasn't sure what the condition would be. Looks pretty good, still has some moisture in it, some stain but I don't care, not as many bug holes as I thought there would be.


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## rb_in_va

Here is a shot of some poplar that a friend and I milled with my Alaskan in Va Beach last summer. The slabs on the right are straight from the mill, the piece on the left is after planing. I don't know what the piece in the middle is, but it doesn't look like poplar to me.


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## woodshop

nice slabs rb, I'm still and probably always will be a sucker for large thick slabs of wood. One reason is that although they take a long time to dry, when done, you have lots of options for that wood down the road. You have some 12 or 16/4 if you need it (like for my large nuts and bolts for ex), or you can always resaw and make some thinner stuff. On the other hand, when I mill 5/4 its dry in a year or so, but it's never going to be more than inch thick boards under even the best conditions after running through the planer.

That board in the middle sure looks a lot like a chuck of cherry, one thats been sitting in the sun a little while, got that darkish reddish hue.


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## Tree Machine

Yum.


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## rb_in_va

I talked to the guy that has the wood and he said the piece in the middle is poplar too. Anyone see the current issue of This Old House? There is a story of a guy that used a downed cherry tree plus a few others he had taken down by an arborist. Then he had them milled by a local sawyer and used them to build stairs and other things in his house. The stair treads looked really nice. Later, Roger.


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## Al Smith

Well,I hope to be in the milling business by this fall,myself.I am in the ongoing process of building a bandsaw mill,rubber tired version,with a 34 hp engine for power.I've never ran a bandsaw before,but have sliced a few with a big circle mill,years ago.Then again,I've never built a bandmill,so it's going to be a works in progress.I've never let lack of experience stop me yet,so this will be no different.Ah,so much junk,so little time


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## rb_in_va

Al,
You are a machinist but have never run a bandsaw?


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## tawilson

Al,
34 hp should have lot's of beans. Any hydraulics? Don't be afraid to through a few pics at us along the way.


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## Al Smith

Roger,I meant bandsaw mill .Yes on the hydraulics,load ,feed,etc.etc, from a second source,remote operation,board dragger.I'll toss in a few pictures,not much to show yet but the track frame.


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## Tree Machine

*you might not ever HAVE to run a mill to build one*

Would it help to see a video of one running? I have video of the last milling session we did most recently. I would have to dig it up, but if it would help, I'll put a piece together.

I have to keep video files under 2.0 meg, either that or I need to hyperlink to a site from where the video is streamed. That would be the best route to go. It's time and work, so let me know if you think it would be important or not.


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## Al Smith

Thanks for the offer.I have been around them,just never ran them.I have looked at several,of which I'm basing my design on the best aspects of all I've seen.For my needs,portability is not the issue,as the logs will come to the saw,therefore,only a transport axle will be used,for the initial set up.I'm in a unique position of having access to many good saw logs,from several tree services ,delivered free,to me,in addition to a few of my own.I already have several thousand bd ft,sawed,and drying,but my sawyer became engrossed in other endeavors,thus the building of my own unit.I have a hunch that with emerald ash borer creeping in,and sudden oak death,that I'll have more logs than I know what to do with.On that note,I would prefer to keep the trees , than cut the lumber,but would rather have the lumber,as the firewood.Thank you much for the offer of the video,but I won't need it.


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## Tree Machine

Ok, cool. What you're attempting to do is very cool. If you weren't such an engineering techno tool guy, I would dissuade you from building your own mill, and instead, buy rb in VA's LT-40 Woodmizer.

But, you're probably one of the most capable anywhere to hybridize a custom mill, so you're seeing the planets of opportunity align to create a mill setting and free log supply that would be ready for the future. 

Smith, that's frickin brilliant.


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## rb_in_va

Tree Machine said:


> Ok, cool. What you're attempting to do is very cool. If you weren't such an engineering techno tool guy, I would dissuade you from building your own mill, and instead, buy rb in VA's LT-40 Woodmizer.



TM,
You've got your Rs mixed up again! No problem though, maybe Ryan will give me the mill. I will park it in one of the 2 parking spots I have at my condo. The condo association would love that!


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## woodshop

Al, I would be very interested in seeing pics of that mill in progress... wow, 34hp. Sounds like you and I already have one thing in common, that is more logs and also milled wood than we know what to do with right at the moment. I'm banking lots of rough lumber for when I can retire, and get into woodworking full time. Main concern is keeping my stash bug and rot free, but doing a pretty good job so far. I use a paint roller to put on a coat of clorox bleach before I sticker the stuff, and havn't had a major borer attack since I started doing that. So it seems to work, its cheap, and quick and dirty. The theory is that the bugs lite on the wood, taste the clorox residue and then don't go any further.


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## scottr

*Clorox*

Dave , do you use the clorox bleach full strengh ?


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## woodshop

scottr said:


> Dave , do you use the clorox bleach full strengh ?


yup, pour it right from the bottle into a paint roller tray (small 4 inch one), and roll it on each board before stickering. Dries quickly leaving a trace of clorox on the board for the critters to taste. I've been told by an "expert" (Gene Wengart) that this probably doesn't work, although he didn't really tell me why not. All I know is that I used to get borers occasionally in my stickered piles, and ever since I started doing this (about 10 years now), I have not had any. Coindedence? Could be. It works for me... its cheap... it doesn't take long to apply after I trim the bark and rot off a board before stickereing, so I do it, and I don't get insects in my wood. 

Dave


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## Al Smith

*Bugs,ugh*

Well I pulled a dumb one.I have a couple of thousand bd ft in one stack,inside a building,on a concrete floor.Somehow the birds found a way to get inside the building .I had this brain storm of covering the stack with plastic,how dumb.When I restacked it,the top that was covered with plastic had a certain amount of mildew and some borrers because I had shut off the air flow with the plastic,duh.Live and learn!The part below the plastic,was nice and dry,no mildew,no insects.I had heard of the bleach ,but never did it.Real good idea,will do on the next go around.


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## woodshop

yes, gotta keep that air flow so the moisture gets taken away, especially the first month or so when the wood is really wet right off the saw. I have stickered and dried a pile or two inside my garage when space got tight, but it never worked well, and took a long time to dry, as the air exchange in the building wasn't enough to do the job. If I had space, I would build a solar kiln, or maybe even step up to building something even more serious. But no room, so thats that. Air drying is my only option for now.


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## gumneck

I'll post some better pics when I move some of the lumber to a better shelter, but these are the pics I have right now.


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## gumneck

Another...


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## gumneck

Another...yeah, I know, Your admirin that dump truck. Sorry I can't sell it!

I'm using the bark slabs temporarily as a shelter. Hope to get under barn after removing the sides. These pieces were flitch cut for 2X frame construction.


----------



## max2cam

Great thread. I hobby mill with a 90cc Solo & 24" bar with a simple "lumber maker" attachment and a straight 2x6" guideboard. It's slow but good for stockpiling lumber for future projects. I have lots of big straight red pine and some spruce. Makes decent boards, planks, and posts. Total investment under $1,000. I use a tripod to get the logs up on sleepers. Works well.

I heard there is a photo on this thread showing a milling fixture that the log sits in as it was described to me. But I can't seem to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'd sure like to see it.


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## scottr

*Picture*

Max , go back to post#10 of this thread and click on 'ripsaw14.jpg' .


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## Tree Machine

*That would be this:*







Woodshop said:


> .....a contraption I designed and built to allow the Ripsaw to mill small logs and chunks down to firewood size if you wanted to. The fence the mill rides on moves up and down in 1/4 inch increments to lower or raise the mill in the log, held captive with sliding dogs made from the hard Black Locust.



To which Newfie said,


Newf said:


> Cool pics. You are a clever [email protected] Ingenious jigs and what-not.



To which I say


Tree Machine said:


> Indeed you ARE a clever [email protected]


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## Tree Machine

Woodshop, how do you get the 1/4" adjustments? What's the mechanism you devised? 

If I'm to guess, it will blow us away, the beauty of the simplicity.


----------



## woodshop

Tree Machine said:


> Woodshop, how do you get the 1/4" adjustments? What's the mechanism you devised?
> 
> If I'm to guess, it will blow us away, the beauty of the simplicity.


Well... not sure I would use the words "beauty" and "simplicity" to describe it, but its basically a set of spring loaded pins with small wooden handles. They are contained in the fence itself on each end, held there with cotter pin and washer. You squeeze the handles pulling the pins to the center of the fence, thus out of the indexed holes, then lower or raise the fence to the desired height and unsqueeze, the springs pop the pins back into the holes at that height and you're good to go for another slice. The catch is to remember to do this when the RipSaw is at the opposite end of the fence, as moving the fence up and down with a 50lb mill at that end can be done, but not easily. Also, for those wondering how I get the ripsaw on and off the fence, one of the ends folds down away from the base, which lets you do that when setting up. 

I am actually in the process of take #2 with that thing... this next version will improve upon the this one is several ways. It will be more precise, allowing 1/8" indexing instead of only 1/4, because I want it to double as a kindof resaw bandsaw. I have lots of rough lumber that I cut 6/4 and 8/4 years ago, and would like to be able to resaw those in half to make 1/2 and 3/4 lumber. So I'm going to make another one of these, but longer to accommodate an 8ft board, and redesign the sliding dogs lower so I can resaw a board leaving as little as 1/2 inch under the Ripsaw blade. Got too much on my plate at the moment though, so this won't happen till Fall probably. 

I'd be happy to share my plans with anybody interested.


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## Tree Machine

Thank you for that, Mr. Woodshop.


----------



## TreeDivision

*Milling in the yard*

I got a great call today, and went to see and hopfully be a major role in a nice project. The customer started me off with his property, asking to thin his modest wood land area. He mentioned wanting to mill some of the wood and if I could arrange it and like any good business man I said yes. Then he took me to a spectacular 1935 millionairs retreat that is about to recieve the care it deserves and that is when the potential really struck me. 
That said who could come on site in NH and mill for us?


----------



## Tree Machine

Wow ! What a fun project. As far as the milling, I would leave that to the end stage of the project. Do the tree work, stage the logs. It sounds like you'll be spending days there, yes?

Give Woodmizer a call, 1-800-553-0182. Ask if they have a custom sawyer ot in your region of New Hampshire. They keep saw owners on record for referral purposes. 

Good luck on that job.

Also, Welcome to Arboristsite. Glad to have you in on things. We look forward to a few pics when available.


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## Tree Machine

Tree Division..... is that like some subliminal pun? Tree division, like dividing up a tree, into boards,... like milling..... milling is another way of saying Tree Division. Milling = Tree Division, oh, I get it,... HA ! You're funny.


----------



## TreeDivision

*More simple actually*

When naming ones company, creativity often goes no further than Bobs Tree Service. But I thought what better name to be an all round tree service than Tree Division, the obviouse and then the more deep, dividing of trees as you said so nicely. The digital camera and crew are heading up there today to define the project. It will be a very fun one, Love using the crane, getting any and every toy we can to the site. So, pictures to follow.


----------



## Newfie

Treemachine is a good guy and shares his wealth of knowledge most willingly but sometimes he cracks himself up much too easily.


----------



## MasterBlaster

As well we all should do.


----------



## TreeDivision

That's great. I was hoping to scan through the postings and find some good info... I sent the guy my bid on the job to day so I will either need the milling or not here soon. I went the route of breaking the hard news ($) to him before I start doing too much tracking down and lining up, for an aspect of the job that might sticker shock him.


----------



## flht01

*Woodshop's Ripsaw thread*

just wanted to bump this one back to the top and ask if the #2 version was underway. I'd really be interested in more info.
Thanks,
kevin



woodshop said:


> Well... not sure I would use the words "beauty" and "simplicity" to describe it, but its basically a set of spring loaded pins with small wooden handles. They are contained in the fence itself on each end, held there with cotter pin and washer. You squeeze the handles pulling the pins to the center of the fence, thus out of the indexed holes, then lower or raise the fence to the desired height and unsqueeze, the springs pop the pins back into the holes at that height and you're good to go for another slice. The catch is to remember to do this when the RipSaw is at the opposite end of the fence, as moving the fence up and down with a 50lb mill at that end can be done, but not easily. Also, for those wondering how I get the ripsaw on and off the fence, one of the ends folds down away from the base, which lets you do that when setting up.
> 
> I am actually in the process of take #2 with that thing... this next version will improve upon the this one is several ways. It will be more precise, allowing 1/8" indexing instead of only 1/4, because I want it to double as a kindof resaw bandsaw. I have lots of rough lumber that I cut 6/4 and 8/4 years ago, and would like to be able to resaw those in half to make 1/2 and 3/4 lumber. So I'm going to make another one of these, but longer to accommodate an 8ft board, and redesign the sliding dogs lower so I can resaw a board leaving as little as 1/2 inch under the Ripsaw blade. Got too much on my plate at the moment though, so this won't happen till Fall probably.
> 
> I'd be happy to share my plans with anybody interested.


----------



## woodshop

Sorry this took so long to respond to, I've been away for a while. Kevin, who wanted this info, has since found me after seeing my article and pics on the Ripsaw website. I sent him the plans and pics of the original version. I still havn't designed and built take #2 since my woodshop business has kinda taken off a little bit faster than I expected and take a lot of my time. He reciprocated by sending me a chunck of some real sweet resin filled heart pine from down there in Texas that was being used as a barn foundation. I'm going to make a few nutcrackers out of it when it dries enough, and send them back down to Texas to him. If anybody else with a Ripsaw wanted the rough plans for my contraption, just ask and I will do the same for them. I use my Alaskan mill on the thing too, makes setting up much easier for small stuff around 5 ft long and less. 

A contractor gave me a huge 36 inch dia red oak log... going to quarter it with the alaskan and mill that into 5/4 with the Ripsaw band mill tomorrow if the rain holds off. So I better get down in the shop and sharpen my chains and clean up my tools. 

Dave


----------



## flht01

*Woodshop to the rescue*



woodshop said:


> ...has since found me after seeing my article and pics on the Ripsaw website. I sent him the plans and pics of the original version...
> 
> Dave



After finding this thread, I decided to take the plunge and order a RipSaw along with a few accessories. I've had the opportunity to exchange emails with Woodshop Dave and must say he's been a really big help in shortening the learning curve and answering a lot of questions. Can't say Thanks enough.

With only a couple of days experience using the ripsaw I'm a little hesitant saying too much, don't want to come off sounding like an advertisment. I can say my first impressions are very favorable  . The RipSaw along with the 36" Alaskan make a good team, I'll report back after I've had a chance to use it a little more.

Kevin


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## rb_in_va

flht01 said:


> The RipSaw along with the 36" Alaskan make a good team, I'll report back after I've had a chance to use it a little more.



All this talk of milling kind of makes me wish that I hadn't got rid of my Alaskan. 

But then I come back to my senses.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## flht01

rb_in_va said:


> All this talk of milling kind of makes me wish that I hadn't got rid of my Alaskan.



Crawling around in the dirt with a chainsaw, what's not to like about that?

I'm hoping the Alaskan and ripsaw will help cure the sawdust fever I seem to have contracted since finding this site. If I'm still sweating sawdust this time next year, maybe I'll look at buying a "real" sawmill, Lucas or Peterson. You know, cheaper to operate, no heavy equipment needed, easier to set up, etc...  



rb_in_va said:


> And you just have to move the mill every time you want to mill a log, right? And if you break a blade it's only $200-300 a pop, right? I'll take the bandmill/tractor set up. That way I'd have a way to move stacks of cut lumber (think forklift) too as well as do hundreds of other projects...


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## 046

what an awsume old thread!

thanks for dragging it back out opcorn:


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## doggonetrees

Thanks for the info, Woodshop!!:rockn:


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## Rail-O-Matic

*Milling your own lumber*

Hello woodshop

I started milling my own lumber because I could not get the specific type of grain pattern for making bellows for my musical instrument, to be specific Irish or Uilleann bagpipes.
I made my first chainsaw mill about fifteen years ago, which we used around the farm with great sucsess, then I made another and so on, until I could cut trees up to 50 inches in diameter without much trouble, which would blow down from time to time.
I use my own machines today which I called the Rail-O-Matic and Roller-Matic, which are both highly portable and chainsaw powered.

http://www.bagpipeworks.co.uk
http://www.bagpipeworks.co.uk/rollermatic__railomatic_chain.htm

I have just decided to go public with the machines and try to find a sponsor
in the USA and other countries, now that they have been prooved over here.

If anyone is interested in them please give me a bell 44-01748-850402.
I would realy like to buy one of those Ripsaws but there are no dealers in the UK that I know of.

Davy.


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## woodbug

Welcome to the Site! Those are some nice looking setups. It looks like you have a good sturdy product there. I realy like the way the roller-matic height/depth adjustments are made. Adjustment appears to be a lot less awkard than the alaskan that I have. What range of bar length do the roller-matic fit and the price range?


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## woodshop

Welcome Davy from North Yorkshire. Interesting couple of mills you have there. Got a couple questions just out of curiousity. On both the railomatic and rollomatic, how do the mills attach to the chainsaw bar? Does it require drilling into the bar? Second, how many turns does it take to raise the mill say 1 foot with your threaded rod method? Concerning your idea of rollers making it easier to run the mill down the log, and roller instead of guide skid on side of log, my first thought was whether I really needed that extra weight, cost or complexity. Point being when I am milling with my csm the friction of the mill riding on my guide bar isn't a big problem. I might even go so far as to say it keeps me from feeding it too fast. Keeping a steady slow even feed (along with a sharp chain and strait solid guide) are the keys to successful chainsaw milling. Then again, perhaps your system of rollers helps in that regard? 

As for marketing here in the states, you might want to rethink the name of your product. A google search will find several products already named rollomatic or roll-o-matic. Quite frankly, in this day and age calling something xxx-o-matic in some circles here has the effect of giving the product somewhat of an old fashioned flavor, like something from the 1950's or 60's. Like a kitchen gadget somebody dreamed up and is trying to sell to the masses, not a serious milling machine that turns logs into lumber. But that's just my personal observation and thoughts. I know almost NOTHING about marketing.

Don't want to come off sounding negative there Davy... just giving you my honest first thoughts. Actually, having seen your design, I want to try one and see for myself how much of a difference pro or con, those rollers might make. As for wanting to try out a Ripsaw band mill, I'm sure they would be willing to send you one if you were willing to pay the shipping costs to get it across the pond.


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## aggiewoodbutchr

Welcome to the site!

Pretty cool. I like the mono rail concept. What is the longest bar you have used on that frame? I know when I have my 72" bar burried in a 50"+ log there is a tremendous reaction force from the pull of the chain. I'm curious how that rig would handle it.


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## woodshop

Davey, my mistake, upon re-reading your site, find you call it roller-matic, not roll-o-matic. So... tone down my comments about it sounding like something out of the 50's. Sorry, I need to pay attention betteropcorn:


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## Rail-O-Matic

I will try and answer all questions here.

On the Roller-Matic the bar does have to be drilled in two places, one exactly through the roller nose bearing, which is safe as the centre there has quite a large solid middle, and drilled again at the opposite side, to take the two Allen bolts that fasten everything together.
On the Rail-O-Matic the (tip only) needs drilling, as the saw itself fastens to the mill via the bar bolts with the aid of some threaded spacers.
Both saw units can be removed and replaced in a couple of minutes, without disturbing the bar and chain, so you can fell the tree and replace the saw to the mill without much of a fuss.

The rise and fall ratio on the threaded system is about 5 turns to the inch, and can be adjusted differently at either side for cutting tapered boards up to one inch difference across the board, this can only be acheived, because the mill has an in built amount of flexibility, to counter act any movement the timber has, as it releases its energy when cut, in some cases with systems that are more rigid, can cause things to tighten up when things move or warp.

Once the depth has been made, an elsatic bungee is applied across the two handles to stop it from moving, and the setting will not move once this is done.

I have used other competitors milling attachments over the last 20 years or more, which have searved the lumber industry wery well indeed, but as I got older the work became harder, so I looked at improoving on a design that has been around for a very long time, more that 70 years now, but in order to do this I had to totally redesign some principles, in order at make everything work together.
The real advantage to our system is the three point rule, first and second, the mill has rollers which vastly reduces the amount of energy that any user needs to expend, in order of guiding or pysically pushing the mill across the surface, the rollers also act as a guide on the in-cut and out-cut, IE at any one time there are two rollers touching the timber, keeping everything on a level plane.
And third, is very simple but effective in the addition of a side roller, this stops the mill from being rammed into the lumber when cutting, I'm sure most if not all understand this senario, but I will try to explain for those who might not.
When you start cutting into the lumber, the chain tends to pull the mill across and away from the saw operator, and into the side of the mill, making it harder to glide along the board, and trying to advance along the log whilst holding the mill off of the log at the same times becomes after a while energy sapping.
The side roller stops this from happening, as it is set back from the mill slightly, and touches before the mill does, and with all three systems working together, the effort needed is much less, giving you full control over the mill.

The other benefit the side roller gives you is, the mill can be swivelled from side to side whilst cutting, because when cutting at a slight angle makes it cut faster, unlike cutting square on and across the log, and as you swivel the mill the actual cutting area become smaller as you do so each way, its like a V shaped cut across the log, if you need more info on this please e-mail me and I will send a drawing/s.

The rail mill can handle boards up to 40 inches across, after that it is advisable to use a Roller-Matic with a double motor set up, with an operator on either end, where you can cut boards up to 60 inches, using the superb range of Canon bars, which we use.

Prices for each system have not yet been set, this would depend on how much intrest can be raised, but I would imagine it to be in the region of double the cost of an Alaskan, this might seem a tad expensive, but the proofe of the pudding is in the eating, even at todays prices of lumber, any mill would pay for itself in the conversion of a couple of decent sized oak trees.

In the UK, quarter sawn air dried timber like oak, runs up into the 40 quid per cubic foot price level, a system which is so portable, that can extract timber from just about anywhere, with the minimum amount of damage to the surrounding enviorment whilst doing so, wind over every time, no large lumber firm can compete with the small operator on this level, and the actual costs to the enviorment, are won over by the small operator every time.


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## woodshop

Interesting, thanks for the quick response. Curious, what is "40 quid" roughly in American dollars? And do you mean a board foot or an actual cubic foot? Regardless, you won't get an argument from me that most mills under a grand or so do pay for themselves pretty quickly if you had to go out and buy the lumber they produce. That begs the question though, would you go out and actually BUY that much lumber if you couldn't get it so cheap milling it yourself? In my case, no, I couldn't afford it. Bottom line though, is that milling wood is actually something enjoyable for many of us. The wood is icing on the cake.


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## aggiewoodbutchr

When I try to think back and remember what my family and I have built using lumber we milled, it blows my mind to think what the market value of it all could potentially be. There would be no way we could afford to buy it from anyone else. 

Nearly every time I fire up a mill I'm like a kid in a candy store. My blood gets pumping when I finish a cut on a 3'+ wide slab and open it up. Plus, I don't recall ever seeing something like this at the local lumber yard.


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## woodshop

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> When I try to think back and remember what my family and I have built using lumber we milled, it blows my mind to think what the market value of it all could potentially be. There would be no way we could afford to buy it from anyone else.
> 
> Nearly every time I fire up a mill I'm like a kid in a candy store. My blood gets pumping when I finish a cut on a 3'+ wide slab and open it up. Plus, I don't recall ever seeing something like this at the local lumber yard.


Aggie, I couldn't have said it any better. Every time I spend the better part of a Saturday milling, I come home with at least 200 ft of lumber, and often twice that. If it's oak or cherry, we are talking between $500 and $1000 worth of lumber once it's stickered, dry and S2S on my planer. Right Aggie, wide boards like in your pic fetch a premium price IF you can even get them. No doubt about it, if you're willing to spend the time and willing to burn some calories, milling lumber will definately pay for itself if you're a woodworker as I am, or can sell it to somebody that is. 

I like roller-matic's ideas... and am curious just how much easier his system or rollers makes things. Would have to do the "touch and feel" test though, use it couple weekends milling up some lumber. He PMed me saying that with his rollers the mill just needs to be guided down the log with much less effort. I'm all for that. Hope I didn't come off as too negative with my initial first reactions. Hey the more folks we get on board milling lumber, the better for all involved, some ways not necessarily evident right away.


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## Rail-O-Matic

The price of 40 pounds Sterling comes out at about $ 70.00 Dollars, and that is for a solid foot cube, not board length.
You can buy it cheaper if its green but not a lot cheaper, as agie says, its a good way to save yourself heaps of money buying it from someone else.

Just imagine how much lumber is cut up for logs each year, why I imagine you could feed a small country on the proceeds, best not to say too much as the IRS could get wind of things and start snooping around Heh Heh Heh.

On the roller subject, they really do work for you, the whole mill glides along with them and control is an easy affair, the whole mill turns on a dime without any strain whatsoever on the operator, rolllllllllllllllinnnng on >>>>>>>.

A two man two saw head unit, is where the real benefits come to the fore
because two saws working together take the strain off of each other, the saws themselves last a lot longer and the bar has no bearing roller nose to wear out, you just turn the bar over every hundred feet or so, and the fuel to board feet cut is much much better, because the saw are not working any where near as hard, if you use a smaller pitch bar like a 3/8" the cutting speed can be quite impressive.

And if one saw stops running you can carry on as if you had a one saw system, and on a smaller width board you can turn one saw off to save on fuel, and turn them both back on for the really big stuff.
If two people share one mill you can share the costs and laugh all the way to the bank, pool ones resorces.

I also get a real buzz from doing things with my mill, we did a job for a freind who bought a derelict barn which had three lovely straight oaks growing out of the middle of it, once he had cleared the undergrowth, we topped the trees, about sixty feet high in total, so we could fell them inside, without hitting the walls.
We then milled them into three 15" x 9"x 22' beams, and once the walls were built back up to the right height, we lifted them into place using an old A frame, block and tackle, which now hold up the upper floor of the property, if he had to go out and buy the beams and get them delivered, it would have cost him over £ 1500.00 quid, that was around fifteen years ago.

We bought the big Stihl 088 new for 850.00, I made the mill for around 120.00worth of materials, so it paid for itself in the one job, we went on to make everything else for the house, including the A section roof trusses and even a 20 foot log cabin at the end of the garden, with some spruce which was growing nearby.

What really concerns me is, all the cheaper European oak that is coming into the UK from places like Romania, Poland, and other developing countries, what the air and road miles is doing to the enviorment is just plain silly.

What I would like to do one day, when I win the Lotto, is to buy one of those wilderness plots, and build myself a summer retreat by a lake somewhere, using my own mill, dreammmmmmmmmmmm on why not.

I have just took the plunge and got a freind in Minesotta to buy me one of those Rip-Saws from KT, it will come in handy for the majority of the smaller beam sections and save the big mill for the donkey work.


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## carvinmark

Rail-O-Matic said:


> The price of 40 pounds Sterling comes out at about $ 70.00 Dollars, and that is for a solid foot cube, not board length.
> You can buy it cheaper if its green but not a lot cheaper, as agie says, its a good way to save yourself heaps of money buying it from someone else.
> 
> Just imagine how much lumber is cut up for logs each year, why I imagine you could feed a small country on the proceeds, best not to say too much as the IRS could get wind of things and start snooping around Heh Heh Heh.
> 
> On the roller subject, they really do work for you, the whole mill glides along with them and control is an easy affair, the whole mill turns on a dime without any strain whatsoever on the operator, rolllllllllllllllinnnng on >>>>>>>.
> 
> A two man two saw head unit, is where the real benefits come to the fore
> because two saws working together take the strain off of each other, the saws themselves last a lot longer and the bar has no bearing roller nose to wear out, you just turn the bar over every hundred feet or so, and the fuel to board feet cut is much much better, because the saw are not working any where near as hard, if you use a smaller pitch bar like a 3/8" the cutting speed can be quite impressive.
> 
> And if one saw stops running you can carry on as if you had a one saw system, and on a smaller width board you can turn one saw off to save on fuel, and turn them both back on for the really big stuff.
> If two people share one mill you can share the costs and laugh all the way to the bank, pool ones resorces.
> 
> I also get a real buzz from doing things with my mill, we did a job for a freind who bought a derelict barn which had three lovely straight oaks growing out of the middle of it, once he had cleared the undergrowth, we topped the trees, about sixty feet high in total, so we could fell them inside, without hitting the walls.
> We then milled them into three 15" x 9"x 22' beams, and once the walls were built back up to the right height, we lifted them into place using an old A frame, block and tackle, which now hold up the upper floor of the property, if he had to go out and buy the beams and get them delivered, it would have cost him over £ 1500.00 quid, that was around fifteen years ago.
> 
> We bought the big Stihl 088 new for 850.00, I made the mill for around 120.00worth of materials, so it paid for itself in the one job, we went on to make everything else for the house, including the A section roof trusses and even a 20 foot log cabin at the end of the garden, with some spruce which was growing nearby.
> 
> What really concerns me is, all the cheaper European oak that is coming into the UK from places like Romania, Poland, and other developing countries, what the air and road miles is doing to the enviorment is just plain silly.
> 
> What I would like to do one day, when I win the Lotto, is to buy one of those wilderness plots, and build myself a summer retreat by a lake somewhere, using my own mill, dreammmmmmmmmmmm on why not.
> 
> I have just took the plunge and got a freind in Minesotta to buy me one of those Rip-Saws from KT, it will come in handy for the majority of the smaller beam sections and save the big mill for the donkey work.



Welcome aboard,glad you have joined us.

I am very impressed with your ideas,you should do well.Best of luck to you and thanks for posting your pics. Mark


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## Matildasmate

Hi woodshop top post mate , exelent info , not sure how I got to this post , but glad I did , just a quick question , not sure I understood something correctly , the ripsaw blade's last about 2 sharpening's or less , is this right? still sound's ok though , by the sound of how much timber they cut . Thank's Dave ..... Cheer's MM


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## BobL

Matildasmate said:


> Hi woodshop top post mate , exelent info , not sure how I got to this post , but glad I did



+1

I remember reading this post as a lurker earlier this year and how much it inspired me to get into this game.


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## woodshop

Matildasmate said:


> Hi woodshop top post mate , exelent info , not sure how I got to this post , but glad I did , just a quick question , not sure I understood something correctly , the ripsaw blade's last about 2 sharpening's or less , is this right? still sound's ok though , by the sound of how much timber they cut . Thank's Dave ..... Cheer's MM



The Ripsaw blades are relatively small compared to most larger milling bandsaw blades. They are only 3/4 inch width and 90" length (19mm x 2.3M for the rest of the world). They are also a bit thinner, at only .025 inch, which means they do take less of a kerf than standard larger bandmill blades. Unless you hit metal or rock, they can be sharpened once and sometimes twice. If I keep them out of bark and dirt, I usually get between 250 and 400 ft of lumber from a new blade, and 200 or so from a sharpened one. Lots of variability there... soft pine or cedar I've milled over 500 ft of lumber one blade. The key of course is keep them out of bark and thus embedded dirt and grit. Some wood, butternut if you're going through bark for example seem to gum up the gullets and they stop cutting in less than 200 ft. A good cleaning and they are back in action though. I clean them with mineral spirits or turpentine and a brass brush after soaking them in kerosene. That is where I keep my spent blades waiting to be sharpened, I coil them up and drop them in a 5 gal bucket of kerosene. That keeps them from rusting and the kerosene helps soften the gum and junk milling loads them up with and makes them easier to clean before sharpening.


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## Matildasmate

*That's one exellent setup you got mate*

Dave , that's one great setup you have mate , well thought out , great stuff , got any pic's of your workshop mate . Cheer's MM


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## woodshop

Matildasmate said:


> Dave , that's one great setup you have mate , well thought out , great stuff , got any pic's of your workshop mate . Cheer's MM


Some of the pics I posted over the years have my woodshop in them for one reason of the other...here is a thread I posted about making the wooden nut and bolt I use for my avatar.

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19822

Those pics are couple years old though... my shop is continually changing as I upgrade and change priorities. That thread will give you a general idea of the way I like to set things up though if you are interested.


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## BobL

Way Cool Shop WS! I can't fit my thicknesser/jointer inside my shed so I have to keep it on a veranda. I also don't have room for a bandsaw (I have access to a small one at work) - I definitely need a bigger shed.


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## MikeInParadise

woodshop said:


> Some of the pics I posted over the years have my woodshop in them for one reason of the other...here is a thread I posted about making the wooden nut and bolt I use for my avatar.
> 
> http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19822
> 
> Those pics are couple years old though... my shop is continually changing as I upgrade and change priorities. That thread will give you a general idea of the way I like to set things up though if you are interested.




I never looked at that post until now. I love looking through others work shops. 

Gee that Jointer looks similar to me!

You can see mine behind the bridges that I am in the process of building. These will let me get to the back part of the wood lot when I want to mill some of the wood up the hill.


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## woodshop

BobL said:


> Way Cool Shop WS! I can't fit my thicknesser/jointer inside my shed so I have to keep it on a veranda. I also don't have room for a bandsaw (I have access to a small one at work) - I definitely need a bigger shed.



The bottom line with space and woodshops... you just really never have enough. As your skills grow and your machines do also, often the size and scope of your projects do also. My current shop started as a wooden table in the corner of my basement with a few hand tools and a drill... it has now taken every square inch of my 25x30 basement, as well as a 16 x 20 two story garage I originally built (silly me) to park my car in. I plan to find room in that garage for a CNC router. Catch is the one I am looking at has a 6x11 ft footprint, so would have to do some serious re-organizing to fit that monster into the fray. 

Mike in paradise, that looks like quite the project with those bridges!!! Looks like you are pretty organized though. A vital key component of a woodshop for sure. Curious what is that green on the wood, is that stain or preservative or what?


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## MikeInParadise

woodshop said:


> The bottom line with space and woodshops... you just really never have enough. As your skills grow and your machines do also, often the size and scope of your projects do also. My current shop started as a wooden table in the corner of my basement with a few hand tools and a drill... it has now taken every square inch of my 25x30 basement, as well as a 16 x 20 two story garage I originally built (silly me) to park my car in. I plan to find room in that garage for a CNC router. Catch is the one I am looking at has a 6x11 ft footprint, so would have to do some serious re-organizing to fit that monster into the fray.
> 
> Mike in paradise, that looks like quite the project with those bridges!!! Looks like you are pretty organized though. A vital key component of a woodshop for sure. Curious what is that green on the wood, is that stain or preservative or what?



It is a preservative. The stain is going to go on tommorrow as the preservative needs 48 hours to dry. 

What I find is that you never have enough space to work. All my tools and benches are on wheels and are currently pushed either in the back shop or against a wall so that I have room to do this. 

This is a picture of my old shop when I had a bedroom suite in it that I made for my daughter. It was 16 x 22 and no room at all for tools and a big project.


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## webbill

*Hi Mark,*



woodshop said:


> Couple people have asked me exactly how I mill all the lumber I do. This explains my system A to Z.
> 
> Few people can claim they have the ability to walk into the woods, drop a 3 ft diameter tree, buck and limb it, and then mill the logs into rough lumber right there on the spot. I have assembled a system using an Alaskan chainsaw mill, a chainsaw powered bandmill and some custom built equipment that will do just that. There are many portable bandmills on the market today that sit on carraiges or can be towed behind a truck. They have their place, and if I could afford one I would probably own one. However, they all have one major limitation. You still have to get that 800lb log from where it was cut to the saw and up onto the carriage where it can be milled into lumber. If that log is 100 yards deep into the woods and you don't have a skidder or ATV with a log carrier, you're out of luck. The 47lb chainsaw powered Ripsaw bandmill allows you to carry the mill right to the tree, so it is truly portable. Along with two 20 lb aluminum guide beams to guide it down the log you can be milling lumber within 15 minutes of setup. In one day I can drop a tree, buck it, slice it into cants with my Alaskan chainsaw mill, and then use the bandmill to mill those cants into 300-500 bd ft of lumber. No single piece of my system is more than 50 lbs, but both mills and accompanying equipment add up to about 300lbs. all together. When I do have to carry it all back into the woods, I can do it in two trips using a small sturdy wagon.
> 
> Husqvarna 365 and Echo 3450
> Prior to felling the tree I use the small but dependable 34cc Echo CS-3450 with a 16" bar to clear away brush and open up a couple of escape routes. I fell and buck the tree using a 65cc Husky 365 with a 28" bar. It has plenty of power to drop and buck a 24 inch diameter tree. With a little patience and skill it will also take care of a larger one. After lopping off the big limbs and bucking the log into 8 ft lenghts, I grab the small Echo again to clean up the small stuff. I also use the little Echo for trimming away knots or small defects on a log prior to attaching the milling guide beams where a larger saw would be awkward if not dangerous.
> 
> Granberg 36"Alaskan chainsaw mill with Husky 395XP
> After dropping the tree and limbing and bucking the log to 8 ft lengths, the first order of business is getting the log into 14" wide cants so the RipSaw bandmill can start making lumber. The best way to do this is to slab off the sides of the log with the Alaskan Mill. If the log is larger than 28 inches diameter, I usually quarter it with the Alaskan. Unlike the bandmill with its thin .025" kerf, the Alaskan mill uses a chainsaw bar and chain with its larger kerf that wastes more of your log. However, the bandmill is limited to a 14" wide cut, and also the bandmill blades wear out quicker going through bark. So, I do the dirty work of getting the log to manageable cants without bark using the Alaskan mill first. I power the Alaskan mill with a 94cc Husqvarna 395XP pulling standard ripping chain around a 36" bar. You lose about 6 inches of bar attaching the saw on the mill, so that leaves me with a max cut of about 30" wide. The 395XP with its 94cc's has the muscle needed to rip that much hardwood. With a lot of fussing, a 30" cut is actually wide enough to slice up a 4ft diameter tree if needed. I rarely come across a tree larger than 36" though, and most of the time I am dealing with trees less than 24" so this capacity mill and saw are plenty. You can get away with a smaller saw in the 60cc range, but it will be slow going on anything over 15 inches even with a shorter bar. All the pros say it's really hard on a small saw pulling a chain around a 36" bar especially when ripping. So, if you're going to be milling logs much over 15" diameter you will need a large saw in the 90cc and above class.
> 
> Ripsaw with Stihl MS 361
> Once I have whittled the log into 14-inch wide cants, which is the max width cut of my Ripsaw bandmill, I can start milling lumber. A chainsaw powerhead powers the Ripsaw, and I use a Stihl MS361. Its 59cc's has plenty of power to pull the thin kerf 3/4" x 90" bandsaw blade through the log. With a sharp new blade the RipSaw will move through 14-inch wide oak at more than 2 ft/minute. Softer wood as well as less width goes even faster. An 8 ft long 10-inch wide soft pine log would take about a minute end to end. As the blade gets dull, the saw needs to work harder and the cutting speed drops off quickly. That's my queue to change blades. If I keep going with a dull blade, not only is it much harder on my powerhead, but also the blade starts to wander and my cuts are not true. Depending on the species I'm cutting, I get about 200 bd ft of lumber from an $18 blade before it needs re-sharpening. I can get two sharpenings from each blade if I am careful. I've gotten more than 600 bd ft between sharpenings in softwoods. I found that if I keep the blade out of bark as much as I can, it will last a lot longer. That is why I use the Alaskan mill initially to slab off the sides of the log. Sharpening a chain is much quicker and easier than sharpening a blade. Not counting my time, the cost of the blades is the most expensive part of the milling operation at about 5 cents a bd ft.
> 
> guide beams
> The Ripsaw mill's fence rides on sturdy hollow aluminum 2x6 guide beams that get attached to the top of the log to guide the mill giving me dead-on true strait cuts. Two 5 ft sections come with the Ripsaw package, but if you want longer boards you can attach more sections. They bolt together making one long strait beam. I also use the guide beams when pushing my Alaskan mill down the log when initially cutting the log into 14" wide cants.
> 
> small horses, floor jack & ramp
> Two small sawhorses along with a lightweight aluminum automotive floor jack and a 2x6 ramp are the system I use to get the logs off the ground and thus easier to mill. I use a cant hook to roll one end of the log up onto the small ramp. This raises the log enough to allow me to get the floor jack under the log and lift it high enough to slip one of the small horses underneath. I then jack up the other end of the log, and slip the second horse under. The log is now up off the ground and much easier to mill. The small horses are sturdy enough to hold a large log and have metal reinforced wooden chocks that fit into holes I drilled into 1/4 inch thick aluminum bar stock attached to the top of each horse. While is it entirely possible to mill the log while it's on the ground and I have done many that way, I was either bending over or down on my knees pushing the mill down the log. This was hard on my back and knees both. With the log up on the horses I am standing and leaning into the RipSaw partially using my body weight to push the saw down the log.
> 
> two toolboxes
> Except for saw gas, bar oil and the large items, two toolboxes contain all small items needed for the milling operation. One contains tools to service the RipSaw, Alaskan mill and the chain saws as well as spare parts, chainsaw files, spare chains etc. The second is a custom made wooden box that contains all the rest of the accoutrements necessary for safe milling. Chaps, dust mask and gloves, first aid kit, hatchet, small fire extinguisher, and wedges for felling and bucking. All the tools, spare parts and small items are in these two toolboxes. If I keep them organized and stocked, grabbing both assures that I won't forget anything.
> 
> portable worktable
> I park my RipSaw for changing blades and adjusting fence height between cuts on a simple table using lightweight plastic sawhorses upon which I set a plywood plank just the right size for my RipSaw and a few tools. This little "quick and dirty worktable in the woods" really comes in handy when adjusting equipment or sharpening the saws. I used to just set things on the ground or a stump, but that was hard on the back and knees after a day of sawing.
> 
> Is this method a lot of hard work? You bet. Expect to burn some calories. Is it rewarding? You bet. Expect to get excited. I've milled thousands of bd ft of lumber with this method, and every time I open up a log I'm like a kid in a candy store. Is it expensive? Well, depending on species and where you live, milled wet lumber is still a buck or two a foot right off the saw. Much more for quartersawn boards or 14" wide 8/4 and 12/4 if you can even find it. So that 300 bd ft you milled in a day would cost you at least $500 and probably more if you had to buy it. Also, I have milled walnut and cherry crotch figured wood that looks better than stuff costing $30 a foot at the local specialty lumber retailer. So, is my system expensive? An entry level bandmill on a trailer you can tow behind your truck will still cost you the better part of $5000 and a LOT more for a good one. Everything in my system fits in the back of my minivan and all together will cost you about $3500. Around $2500 if you're willing to swap saws between mills. At 300-500 bd ft a day can my system cut as fast as the bigger more expensive bandmills? Of course not. However, I can carry mine right up to that cherry tree that blew down in the back of the neighbors yard. Within 15 minutes I am milling custom lumber exactly the way I want it cut. That is where my system shines.



That was an informative and fun post to read. Way over my head at this point.

What kind of crafts do you make? I am getting curious.

I know you are far off from me, but if you were looking for dry rough milled wood how would you go about it?

Again enjoyed the reading,

Bill


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## woodshop

webbill said:


> That was an informative and fun post to read. Way over my head at this point. What kind of crafts do you make? I am getting curious.



Other than a small traditional Shaker side table, most of the things I make at this point are small woodcraft items like cutting boards and cracker trays, as well as unique things like wooden nut&bot clock and a wooden nut and bolt nutcracker. That is what the (mostly) women at my shows want... and therefore that's what I make. Check out this post when you have some time... it shows how much talent there is in this little group...
http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=47084


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## webbill

*Thanks for the link*



woodshop said:


> Other than a small traditional Shaker side table, most of the things I make at this point are small woodcraft items like cutting boards and cracker trays, as well as unique things like wooden nut&bot clock and a wooden nut and bolt nutcracker. That is what the (mostly) women at my shows want... and therefore that's what I make. Check out this post when you have some time... it shows how much talent there is in this little group...
> http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=47084




The more I get into to this the more eager I am to learn more.


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## woodshop

webbill said:


> The more I get into to this the more eager I am to learn more.



Now your talking... join the club


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## ROOTSXROCKS

I know this thread is two years old but wow Its really a good one, love the attached pictures. 

so Is there a better toy now days , I am loving that band saw attachment and thinking I have to have one fo my Husky :greenchainsaw:


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## BobL

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> I know this thread is two years old but wow Its really a good one, love the attached pictures.
> 
> so Is there a better toy now days , I am loving that band saw attachment and thinking I have to have one fo my Husky :greenchainsaw:



Yeah, it's a pity Woodshop has sort of left the scene. Being an inspired tinkerer of the highest quality he knows a lot of very useful stuff. I really hope he comes back one day - I haven't finished picking his brains yet!


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## woodshop

BobL said:


> Yeah, it's a pity Woodshop has sort of left the scene. Being an inspired tinkerer of the highest quality he knows a lot of very useful stuff. I really hope he comes back one day - I haven't finished picking his brains yet!



Gee whiz gosh golly BobL... you got it backwards, I always thought of YOU as the "inspired tinkerer of the highest quality". In fact, you are one of the people that inspired ME. Always thought it a shame that we live a couple of oceans apart and not down the road from each other. When I retire in three years I'd like to jump on a plane and come seeya down there, maybe take home a few pieces of rock hard Aussie wood to stick on my CNC table. I'm still tinkering, especially on the CNC, with which after almost two years I still havn't scratched the surface of its potential and probly won't have when I assume room temperature. So... just too many irons in the fire, had to pull some out. As surreal as it may sound, I've been serious into zydeco/cajun dancing for past 11 months, something I never new I had in me... about as much fun as you can have standing up as it gets, but point being I let it take a LOT of my time. Anyway, glad to see a couple of the folks still here that were when I was jumping on every day. Still spend most of my free time & weekends in the woodshop and milling trees into lumber only I'm very selective now since I have no room for wood anymore. My Ripsaw is going strong, wore out the big main drivewheel on it which was mostly my fault anyway not watching the tracking, but a hundred bucks fix and I'm back in business for another 10 years of milling.


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## BobL

Great to hear from you again WS! We've missed you a lot.



woodshop said:


> Gee whiz gosh golly BobL... you got it backwards, I always thought of YOU as the "inspired tinkerer of the highest quality". In fact, you are one of the people that inspired ME. Always thought it a shame that we live a couple of oceans apart and not down the road from each other. When I retire in three years I'd like to jump on a plane and come seeya down there, maybe take home a few pieces of rock hard Aussie wood to stick on my CNC table


I'll look forward to it  Tell me what you want and I'll see what I can do!



> I'm still tinkering, especially on the CNC, with which after almost two years I still havn't scratched the surface of its potential and probly won't have when I assume room temperature. So... just too many irons in the fire, had to pull some out. As surreal as it may sound, I've been serious into zydeco/cajun dancing for past 11 months, something I never new I had in me... about as much fun as you can have standing up as it gets, but point being I let it take a LOT of my time.


I admit it sounds strange, but no stranger than my brother who took up cajun music and few years ago and learned about fifty songs and can't understand a word he is singing. The CNC sounds like fun.



> Anyway, glad to see a couple of the folks still here that were when I was jumping on every day. Still spend most of my free time & weekends in the woodshop and milling trees into lumber only I'm very selective now since I have no room for wood anymore. My Ripsaw is going strong, wore out the big main drivewheel on it which was mostly my fault anyway not watching the tracking, but a hundred bucks fix and I'm back in business for another 10 years of milling.


Sounds good - Keep on milling and drop in from time to time to let us know how you are.


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## dustytools

BobL said:


> Great to hear from you again WS! We've missed you a lot.
> 
> 
> Agreed, definitley good to see you post again.


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## Brmorgan

Hey WS, good to hear from you again. I trust you're having a good Christmas.

About the Zydeco thing... In general it ain't my style of music, HOWEVER, I love this song (and I'm sure you know it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-VLjwSSz_Q

One of the very first things I can remember was kickin' it to that song when I was maybe 3 years old up at our cottage in Ontario in the mid-80s. You can imagine how much fun that song can be for a toddler! So while it's not really my favorite music it does have some strong sentimental ties. For some reason I'm really like that with music/songs. Took me bloody FOREVER to find it again as an adult after the whole MP3 craze started a few years back though. The above video is the exact version I remembered; there are myriad others out there and I have no idea if this one is the original or a later cover. My dad even has a copy (by a different artist, not sure who) on an old 45, it's in English on one side and French on the other. It's probably a collector's item by now.

PS - if anyone DOES know for certain who did the above version, I'd like to know since there were a couple other songs on that old tape by the same guy that I can vaguely remember and would like to find, but I have no idea what their names were, which makes it doubly difficult.


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## woodshop

Thanks Brad... I had the pleasure of seeing and dancing to Buckwheat and his band when he came north couple months ago to this area. No he didn't play that tune, in fact most zydeco music is a bit livelier than that particular song. Anyways... staying within the bounds of this milling forum, I milled a ton of osage orange that I got a hold of a while back with my Alaskan mill and then the Ripsaw. Dense hard but easily worked wood. So happens in zydeco they use an instrument called a rub board, also called a frottoir. It looks like a metal washboard and it's worn on the chest and "played" with sharpened spoons or other metal utensils. I wanted to see what a wooden one would sound like, so took some of my hardest wood, osage, slapped a V bit on the CNC and wrote a quick and dirty program to make parralell grooves to make a small wooden one. Instead of using metal to run up and down it, I used a small piece of soft maple. Still a hard wood, but not as hard as the osgae. I figured that anything I used to "play" it had to be at least a little softer than the frottoir wood itself or it would slowly be destoryed. Results of this little experiment were mixed. Believe it or not, it has more of higher pitched "clackity" sound than the metal ones do, in fact almost ear piercing if you get too close to it and press and rub it too hard. For this and other reasons, I didn't ramp it up into a full sized one, nor experiment more with whether I should put a slight round edge on the top of the ridges etc. Maybe at some point in the future when I have more time to play I will. Was fun to do anyway. Here are a few pics of this thing. I might have even posted these pics already on AS a while back, don't remember.


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## aardquark

Question for woodshop: in post #32 (mill 4.jpg) and several other places, you show a stack of cut boards under the guide beam. Did you make all the cuts with only one placement of the guide beam? I haven't tried it yet (I have a ripsaw myself), but it looks like a workable technique for multiple 1" lumber. The downside is that there is only 9" of height to work with, and the guide beam plus end clamps take a minimum of about 3.25" from that.


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## woodshop

aardquark said:


> Question for woodshop: in post #32 (mill 4.jpg) and several other places, you show a stack of cut boards under the guide beam. Did you make all the cuts with only one placement of the guide beam? I haven't tried it yet (I have a ripsaw myself), but it looks like a workable technique for multiple 1" lumber. The downside is that there is only 9" of height to work with, and the guide beam plus end clamps take a minimum of about 3.25" from that.



That is correct, I found that adjusting the Ripsaw depth was much faster than pulling the guide beam off every slice. I actually don't see a downside to the 9" limit, since that band takes so little kerf, you still get 7 1" boards and a thicker 1 1/2 or 2" for the top (last) cut. You can also start from the top and slice DOWN, but I found that the boards sometimes move on you doing that, where if you start at the bottom and slice UP, the weight of the cant/boards above you limit that to a minimum. Also, if your blade is not sharp and tentioned enough, and thus you don't get flat cuts, the boards tend to move and wobble on you as you slice up or down.


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## Adkpk

Hey, Dave saw you posted and had to come in and say hi. Have a happy New Year.

Got a dado blade off my brother the other day and was working on a cherry table top yesterday. (Of course cherry I had milled). Off to get some bar clamps to glue it up later. Other than that same old same old. Climbing, felling, milling, drying, planing, measuring, sanding, oiling, burning, studying and enjoying trees.


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## rarefish383

Woodshop, where in PA is Fort Wash? My daughter goes to school in Reading and I'm up around Mercersburg quite a bit. I just sat for several hours and enjoyed this thread so much I'd like to drop off one of Stoudt's special blends just to say thanks for getting it all started, Joe.


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## woodshop

rarefish383 said:


> Woodshop, where in PA is Fort Wash? My daughter goes to school in Reading and I'm up around Mercersburg quite a bit. I just sat for several hours and enjoyed this thread so much I'd like to drop off one of Stoudt's special blends just to say thanks for getting it all started, Joe.



Wow... Stoudt's special blends, I'm honored. Ft Washington is right off the PA Turnpike, exit 339, outside of Philadelphia going west. I have lots of family west of Reading and used to live there. If you're coming this direction give me a shout or email me... [email protected], which I check hourly on my cell (I know... pathetic).


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## woodshop

Adkpk said:


> ... Climbing, felling, milling, drying, planing, measuring, sanding, oiling, burning, studying and enjoying trees.


Sounds like you have all bases covered, my kinda life, keep it up.


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## ROOTSXROCKS

so, does anyone know if this band saw attachment is available for a 394xp ?
If so were and how much ? 
and is it worth it, Im not inclined to the Alaska mill if I can use the bandsaw.


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## woodshop

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> so, does anyone know if this band saw attachment is available for a 394xp ?
> If so were and how much ?
> and is it worth it, Im not inclined to the Alaska mill if I can use the bandsaw.



The Ripsaw comes in two flavors, Stihl and Husky... has to do with the way the oil exits the saw into the Ripsaw. Your 394XP will fit the Ripsaw designed for a Stihl. That saw is overkill though for milling with the Ripsaw, if you have a smaller Stihl, 60cc range, use it instead, more than enough power for that thin blade. The weight makes a difference when your lifting that thing on and off a cant 100 times. Don't know the latest prices but the whole package which includes the guide bars etc is pricy... close to $2k, maybe more by this time. If you're just gonna slice a few logs into lumber it's an expensive option... if you mill couple thousand ft a year as I do to feed my woodshop, then it can pay for itself.


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## ROOTSXROCKS

woodshop said:


> The Ripsaw comes in two flavors, Stihl and Husky... has to do with the way the oil exits the saw into the Ripsaw. Your 394XP will fit the Ripsaw designed for a Stihl. That saw is overkill though for milling with the Ripsaw, if you have a smaller Stihl, 60cc range, use it instead, more than enough power for that thin blade. The weight makes a difference when your lifting that thing on and off a cant 100 times. Don't know the latest prices but the whole package which includes the guide bars etc is pricy... close to $2k, maybe more by this time. If you're just gonna slice a few logs into lumber it's an expensive option... if you mill couple thousand ft a year as I do to feed my woodshop, then it can pay for itself.



So what your saying is I should build a bigger one for the 394 to be efficiant 

I think I might have a few parts around to consider using


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## woodshop

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> So what your saying is I should build a bigger one for the 394 to be efficiant
> 
> I think I might have a few parts around to consider using



Many folks on here have built their own bandmill, but not a small handheld one like the Ripsaw. Not saying it can't be done, of course it can. From what I've gathered though, toughest part will be designing in the tracking. It can't rack but it has to be tensioned pretty tight or it won't cut a flat board, especially when it starts to get dull. That and designing a way to avoid the cast piece of aluminum with the holes to mate the powerhead to the bandsaw. I'm sure there are other ways to do that, but I can't think of a way offhand other than to maybe start with a solid chunk of aluminum and custom machine it down to size, maybe somehow routing the oil channel through it and then into the bandsaw gear/drivewheel from above, I don't know. If you try and build one, the other downside might be that it ends up heavier than the Ripsaw, as many homebuilt alaskan mills end up. With a 361 it's a tad over 50 lbs, which is about as much as I want to swing/lift all day board after board. Remember this thing is portable... you take IT to the log, not the other way around like 99% of bandmills. That is it's claim to fame, it's not designed to compete with a larger stand alone bandmill. I will only mill 14 inch wide board, and its slower than most stand alone bandsaws. The main advantage of a Ripsaw is that you can take it to logs that you can't get to like in somebody's back yard where you don't want to or can't due to space, take something big enough to lift/drag/haul away a 2000 lbs log.


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## gemniii

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> so, does anyone know if this band saw attachment is available for a 394xp ?
> If so were and how much ?
> and is it worth it, Im not inclined to the Alaska mill if I can use the bandsaw.



After perusing woodshops post last September I realized that the Ripsaw was one of the ideal tools for my application, which required extreme portability. However, the down side is that the "lightness" of the Ripsaw is more than set off by the lightness it would induce in my wallet.

I've found them for sale used for about $1K, w/o powerhead but with various adapters. 
Well, it's a New Year and I've got to get started on "gettin 'er done".

So I called Ripsaw.
Per phone con with a nice Southern Lady at Ripsaw Monday Jan 4th 2010 about 0915 -
she's not sure if or when production will resume but it will only produce the adapter for the Stihl MS361. They do not have a backstock of adapters

So - back to the search for a truly portable bandsaw solution.


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## htpd43

gemniii said:


> After perusing woodshops post last September I realized that the Ripsaw was one of the ideal tools for my application, which required extreme portability. However, the down side is that the "lightness" of the Ripsaw is more than set off by the lightness it would induce in my wallet.
> 
> I've found them for sale used for about $1K, w/o powerhead but with various adapters.
> Well, it's a New Year and I've got to get started on "gettin 'er done".
> 
> So I called Ripsaw.
> Per phone con with a nice Southern Lady at Ripsaw Monday Jan 4th 2010 about 0915 -
> she's not sure if or when production will resume but it will only produce the adapter for the Stihl MS361. They do not have a backstock of adapters
> 
> So - back to the search for a truly portable bandsaw solution.



gemniii - you just burst my bubble

when i first tried milling this summer/fall, i milled a 4" x 30" x 8' live edge slab for my dad's mantle. i told him how much fun i had doing it and he ended up finding what he called a "chainsaw powered bandsaw mill" that a friend of his is selling. i'm guessing he means a Ripsaw. but now i wonder if i'm going to be able to use it with the saws i have? i guess i'll have to do a little digging and see what he's got.


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## woodshop

gemniii said:


> ...So I called Ripsaw.
> Per phone con with a nice Southern Lady at Ripsaw Monday Jan 4th 2010 about 0915 -
> she's not sure if or when production will resume but it will only produce the adapter for the Stihl MS361. They do not have a backstock of adapters...



You folks must know something I don't, because if you're talking about that cast aluminum chunk of metal that you bolt the saw to, it used to only come in two flavors, and it was my understanding that the Stihl version would fit amost ANY Stihl saw midrange and up, and the only thing that would be different from saw to saw is that standard piece that fits over the clutch (name escapes me now) that mates to the Ripsaw drive gear, available off the shelf at most chainsaw places as well as online. If the lady at Ripsaw is telling you they only make something that mates to a 361, that's news to me. Just as a Stihl bar will fit most Stihl saws, I thought a Stihl version of the Ripsaw would fit most Stihls. I may have been wrong about that all this time. I have mounted an MS460 Magnum on my ripsaw, as well an older 036 and my MS 361 is on there now. Had no problems mating any of them to it.


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## htpd43

Good to know woodshop. I hope the same goes for husky/j'red saws - that was what I was planning on using - my 2165. I only have two bigger stihls - an o56 mag and an o66 mag. I was hoping to not use either of those two since I figured it'd be overkill.


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## gemniii

The saws listed at the Ripsaw website:
* Stihl models: 026, 028, 029, 034, 036, 036PRO, 038, 044, 046, 064, 066, E20(Electric), E220(Electric)
MS260, MS280, MS290, MS340, MS360, MS380, MS440, MS460, MS640, MS660
* Jonsered models: 2065, 2165, 2071and 2171
* Husqvarna models: 365, 371XP, 372 and 395

Represent 3 Manufacturers and a lot of Stihl Models including some electric ones, but no 361. I think the lady was only emphasizing that he was cutting back to one adapter.saw combo that he's going to SUPPORT for future sales. She also mentioned 3 units ordered in the summer were still on backorder and he wasn't able to get adapters for the Huskies.

I had been wanting to get a used Ripsaw and potentially using another adapter.

It seems what the guy needs is an active, supportive user base to encourage production. It looked like an ideal niche sawmill.


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## aardquark

I chose the Stihl MS361 to match to my RipSaw, and there was some confusion regarding the required sprocket. You need a 7 tooth 3/8" chain spur sprocket drum, but the 361 only comes with a rim drive drum. My dealer could find nothing in his documentation to suggest which drum might fit. According to other searches I have done, the correct part number is probably 1128 640 2000, which is listed for an 044, among others. But I think I ended up with a 1125 640 2000, which is listed for an 036 and MS360. Anyway, to make a long story short, while the drum I got looked right (at the dealer), it was a little too deep. I ended up milling it down about 1/16" and deepening the oiler spring slot before it fit well. So the moral is, compare very carefully the depth of your new spur sprocket drum to the original rim drum, to save yourself either the return trip or the additional work making it fit correctly.


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## jandc

Anyone milled with an Stihl electric chainsaw + ripsaw?
Would that work fine


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## woodshop

jandc said:


> Anyone milled with an Stihl electric chainsaw + ripsaw?
> Would that work fine



I've heard through the grapevine that the reason Ripsaw discontinued it's electric motor option (years ago you could buy a Ripsaw with an electric motor) was because of power and torque issues. Hard to get enough power from an electric motor pulling only 110 or 220 single phase that is also small and light enough to mount on a Ripsaw you will be swinging around all day. Not saying somebody wouldn't be able to tweak something that would work, but whether it's true of not I heard that is why Ripsaw stopped selling the electric option.


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## gemniii

I think for a lot of uses one of the problems would be stretching the electricity.
Here's a portable electric bandsaw with a 12" throat:
http://www.crmsaw.co.uk/crm_026.htm
but it's real expensive.


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