# Starting a business



## Great Feller (Sep 11, 2008)

I formed an LLC in July and I will be the only employee/owner. It is meant to be a small forest consulting/tree service side business to compliment my full-time job. I made sure nobody in Iowa had my business name and got my "employer id number". check that off the list.

I then contacted the Small Business Director at the college and got some free info. Wasn't real impressed with the help. You get what you pay for. 

I then filled out the articles of organization sent that in. I then got a fancy letter back saying I had paid the $50 bucks and that the secretary of state acknowleded my LLC. That leads me to my second question.... Is that paper with the seal of the secretary of state my "business license"?? If not, I do not have anything saying "business license". Check?

I also sent in for a sales tax permit because tree trimming/felling,firewood sells in iowa is a taxable service. On the form I also had to fill out when I wanted the tax year to end. I put August?... Will I get something in the mail come July letting me know to get my taxes and stuff together?....check 

I set up a business checking account using my ID number, got a business credit card too.... check

I've been purchasing equipment for years.... knowing this was what I wanted to eventually do. I have 3 saws: MS 460, husky 455, Ht 131,and a small poulan 14" saw, wedges, helmets, chaps, chain, punch and spinner for making chain, chain grinder, files, guides, log chain, binders, tree marking paint, etc. Lots of other little things. 

I bought a trailer and 4 wheeler to use striclty for the business. I told my insurance company business use,,, come to think of it they never asked for my tax id number... I'm paid up on that until aug 09. Should I look back into that? 

I bought a truck with my personal checking account and have a personal insurance policy on it. It is the only vehicle I have and I figured I'd use it more for personal use than business. I didn't put it under the business because I didn't want to get caught using obvious business assets for personal use and therefore risk my LLC protection.... It seems to me you can use personal assets for your business and be ok... I don't know. 
I keep a mileage log in my truck and record all miles used for business. 

As for accounting,,,, I'm keeping track of my miles, expenses, income, bank statements, etc. I'm organizing it all in a binder. My sister is an accountant at the New Holland dealership in town. I think she'll help me out come tax time. I don't think I'll have a lot of business transaction since it's my first year and things aren't looking too hot. 

Liability insurance: I found 1 million general liability to cover all my services for 72 bucks a month. Have not bought it yet, still shopping. 

Called city hall in all the towns I want to provide tree felling/trimming to see about additional permits/licenses. Good on that. check

Other licenses and training: 4 year degree in Forestry from Iowa State, Game of Logging course, State licensed Nuisance wildlife control operator, soon to be state licensed commercial pesticide applicator. Check

advertising.... Haven't done any yet. I'm waiting to get the pesticide license and liability insurance. I'm going to put an add in the paper. Maybe get some business cards. 

Overall, am I missing anything??? Am I really to the point where I can start doing work? Is all the BS of starting the business about over??? I'm ready to spend my time working,learning, and buying new equipment. 

I would love to hear some feedback. Thanks!


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 11, 2008)

It sounds to me like if you can sell jobs and do treework as well as you've organized the licensing, insurance and accounting you'll be quite successful. 

I didn't see any mention of how you're going to accomplish aerial work. You'll need to cover that part somehow, or eliminate yourself from a fairly large percentage of "tree service" jobs. Having both a bucket truck owner/operator and a climber available as sub contractors would increase the work you could perform, at least until you can buy your own bucket or hire a climber. 

Also, ropes and rigging gear are not mentioned. Even without a bucket or climber, there are lots of times ropes, blocks, biners and lots more are indispensible on the ground. Throwball, poles, pole saw head, and pruner head get used daily as well. 

If you've got a local printer for your business cards, great, if you're going to order from the internet, vista prints is the best i've found yet. Ordered several times from them with no problems. 

Do you ever get down to Blakesburg? I spent 1st through 8th grades there, and used to run the hills and woods west of Blakesburg where I lived.


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## Great Feller (Sep 12, 2008)

DDH,

I don't mention tree topping because I don't have the equipment yet. I'm not a climber either. I don't even desire to do BIG jobs in town where there are too many powerlines and homes. I'm starting small and working my way up. Maybe I don't have much to offer???? I'm definately interested in a 252 stumper. 
Yeah I make it through Blakesburg every now and then. Lots of Deer and timber over that way. I'm originally from Albia....


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## clearance (Sep 12, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> DDH,
> 
> I don't mention tree topping because I don't have the equipment yet.



Oh no, here we go..............


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 12, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> DDH,
> 
> I don't mention tree topping ...



Sounds like you need to learn the job before you can do the job. You may want to go and work for someone else for a little while to learn how to do the job, how to estimate and sell the jobs, what paperwork you should have. No need to reinvent the wheel.


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## Great Feller (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm speechless


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 13, 2008)

:monkey:


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 13, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> I don't mention tree topping because I don't have the equipment yet. I'm not a climber either. I don't even desire to do BIG jobs in town where there are too many powerlines and homes. I'm starting small and working my way up. Maybe I don't have much to offer???? I'm definately interested in a 252 stumper.



What services are you planning to offer? Quoting from your other thread, I see a few potential problems with what you're thinking.....



> 1. An old lady wants you to come over and cut a small tree down and haul it away. It might take an hour to cut and load it.
> 
> 2. A guy wants you to come over and fell a tree that leaning over his garage. It's not a bad lean, something you can wedge over.
> 
> ...



1. The one hour cut and hauls will be few and far between....those are jobs handled by sons, grandsons, and chainsaw owning neighbors. If you can find them, you'll have to bid tight, because they're easy in-n-out jobs. 

2. The problem wont be the lean, it'll be everything in the way of where you'd like to fall it.....If the dropzone is open, they'll have their uncle Charlie come over and tie the truck to it, and cut it down themselves

3. Farmers have farm hands who look at a day of sawing outback as a vacation. They have tractors to skid whatever they need. They have chainsaws, and don't typically want to pay tree service rates for farm hand jobs. So even if you can find a farmer who wants posts cut, he'll want to pay farm hand rates, and justifiably so, it's farm hand work, and not something you need licenses or liability insurance for. 

4. Of all the jobs you look at after an ice storm, maybe 5% will ONLY have breakage that you can handle from the ground. If you don't have a lift, bucket, or climber, you'll be out of luck. 

Not many jobs can be handled from the ground with no rigging, its all about the high and heavy work...Lots of people can cut from the ground. Sorry to be negative towards your plan, and there may be lots of aspects of tree work you could focus on without aerial work, but either way, you've got alot of learning to do, if you want to get the cart back in front of the horse where it belongs. 



> I'm speechless



Why?


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## Great Feller (Sep 13, 2008)

I can see why you guys are negative about what I'm wanting to do. Maybe I need to explain a few more things. I'm not wanting to be an arborist. I agree that a guy without a boom truck and ropes is not an efficient operation. Who starts out at the top anyways? Unless you were born into tree service equipment or go into debt who has it all from the start???? If you are expecting me to have all the equipment necessary, just go ahead and mail me a couple hundred grand. Get me squared away. I'd gladdy take it. I forgot, along with all that extra equipment I'm going to need a place to store it,,, extra money for insurance, maintenance,,,etc. Send more cash for that too. 

I'm a forester. That's what I went to school for. I also like running a saw, I always have. I don't plan to just do tree felling/trimming. I'm going to offer timber sale preparation, timber stand improvement, nuisance wildlife trapping, and eventually I would like to have a stump grinder. In addition, I will keep working full-time at my day job.

I appreciate all the people on these forums that are sympathetic and helpful.


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## appalachianarbo (Sep 13, 2008)

Speaking as one with a forestry background but who now does arboriculture, they're two different animals. The transition is not an easy one without proper training and guidance. 

Sure, there are jobs you can do that don't require leaving the ground - BUT - many people who need a tree service need someone who can get up and around their trees. If you show up to a bid, but can't do what they ask, your potential clients will wonder why you are advertising as a tree service and your name will travel fast via word of mouth. 

Why not scratch your itch for running a saw by doing the TSI work yourself? Little to no cleanup, hardly any overhead, and you might be able to get insured for just forestry instead of tree care operations. 

I'm not being negative, just practical. Find a tree service to apprentice with for a while - get the techniques down, find out what equipment will work for you, then go for it. 

By the way - what's the 4 wheeler for?


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 13, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> I can see why you guys are negative about what I'm wanting to do. Maybe I need to explain a few more things. I'm not wanting to be an arborist. I agree that a guy without a boom truck and ropes is not an efficient operation. Who starts out at the top anyways? Unless you were born into tree service equipment or go into debt who has it all from the start???? If you are expecting me to have all the equipment necessary, just go ahead and mail me a couple hundred grand. Get me squared away. I'd gladdy take it. I forgot, along with all that extra equipment I'm going to need a place to store it,,, extra money for insurance, maintenance,,,etc. Send more cash for that too.
> 
> I'm a forester. That's what I went to school for. I also like running a saw, I always have. I don't plan to just do tree felling/trimming. I'm going to offer timber sale preparation, timber stand improvement, nuisance wildlife trapping, and eventually I would like to have a stump grinder. In addition, I will keep working full-time at my day job.
> 
> I appreciate all the people on these forums that are sympathetic and helpful.



That sounds much more workable, especially as a part time gig. 

Just for the record, my business partner and I have been in business for about 3 years now, and we started out with nothing but our daily driver pickup trucks, some old and busted homeowner type saws, a borrowed trailer, and about a grand to buy basic climbing and rigging gear. We left our line clearance jobs and went out on our own. 

It's been a struggle, but we've made enough to keep from working for someone else, and built up more gear and equipment along the way, and don't owe a dime to anybody. Now we've got good saws, dump bed chip truck, old chuck n duck, decent stump grinder and lots more gear, and getting ready to expand into more areas of tree care than just running a saw or grinding stumps. 

It's slow and difficult to start from the bottom with next to nothing, but it can be done. Others have started where I did, and grown much bigger much faster. It's more about the knowledge you have, and how much effort you put into continued learning, and marketing yourself successfully. And then doing what you say you can do. 

You've got a degree, and ideas of how you want to use it, and your whole business in place as far as paperwork and accounting. So in many aspects, you're ahead of the curve for small time startups. So get busy marketing what you can do now, and get to work. 

Please don't take my negativity towards some of what you posted as negativity towards you, just trying to give you accurate feedback from my perspective...


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## Great Feller (Sep 14, 2008)

I will be doing the TSI myself, from the management plan I have to clear with the district forester to cutting of all the undesirable trees. That's one reason why I need a 4 wheeler. I can throw my saw and equipment on it and head to the back 40. I'll also use it while i'm out marking/measuring timber. Skidding hedge posts and firewood. I also got licensed as a state nuisance wildlife control trapper. Gotta have a 4 wheeler for beaver trapping,,, period. Plus I'm not shoveling snow off my damn driveway anymore! On top of that I got an unreal deal on it. 

Anyways, I guess I'll just advertise small to medium tree work? I don't want people calling or expecting me to be able to cut down their 100ft tall cottonwood tree in the front yard. I just bought an MS 460 last year and an HT 131 for $625 bones last week,,,, I'm doing tree work of some sort guys.

You brought up a good point about getting just forestry insurance instead of tree service insurance. I don't think I can go with the cheaper "forestry package" since I'm cutting trees down for TSI. They always ask who will be cutting the trees. Plus, I know I'm going to run into people who are going to want trees cut down, don't know what kind of situations but whatever the case, I think I need good coverage. I will be getting a SC252 stump grinder soon too. I'm not going to be able to do everything but I'll have some services to offer. 

Now what do you think??? The last thing I'm going to do is go beg my competition for a job so I can learn how they top trees and fill out estimate sheets. I don't care how they do it. I wouldn't even call those big outfits my competition. Those guys won't step foot on somebody's yard without asking at least $600 bucks. People don't like that and they'll look around first. If I think I can do the job I'll take it on. If it's too risky,,, well those big guys will get their $600 bucks I guess. We have 40 acres of trees around our house. There has NEVER been a time when I thought our only option was to call a tree service company to come in and cut a tree for us. I have taken on a lot of scary tree situations. I'm good at what I do.

Anyhow, I'm running my own show here. That's why I've started my own business.


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 14, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> Now what do you think??? The last thing I'm going to do is go beg my competition for a job so I can learn how they top trees and fill out estimate sheets. I don't care how they do it. I wouldn't even call those big outfits my competition. Those guys won't step foot on somebody's yard without asking at least $600 bucks. People don't like that and they'll look around first. If I think I can do the job I'll take it on. If it's too risky,,, well those big guys will get their $600 bucks I guess. We have 40 acres of trees around our house. There has NEVER been a time when I thought our only option was to call a tree service company to come in and cut a tree for us. I have taken on a lot of scary tree situations. I'm good at what I do.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm running my own show here. That's why I've started my own business.



Just using the term topping shows that you don't have a clue about the tree care industry. As a professional forester myself, I know that industrial forestry and urban forestry are very different and if you want to get involved in the urban industry, then you need some experience. When I switched from industrial to urban, I quickly learned that my 25 years of industrial experience provided very little benefit to the urban environment. 

Good luck in your forestry biz as that is where your work is going to come from.


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## mckeetree (Sep 14, 2008)

BC WetCoast said:


> Just using the term topping shows that you don't have a clue about the tree care industry. As a professional forester myself, I know that industrial forestry and urban forestry are very different and if you want to get involved in the urban industry, then you need some experience. When I switched from industrial to urban, I quickly learned that my 25 years of industrial experience provided very little benefit to the urban environment.
> 
> Good luck in your forestry biz as that is where your work is going to come from.



Yep.


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## appalachianarbo (Sep 14, 2008)

> Just using the term topping shows that you don't have a clue about the tree care industry. As a professional forester myself, I know that industrial forestry and urban forestry are very different and if you want to get involved in the urban industry, then you need some experience. When I switched from industrial to urban, I quickly learned that my 25 years of industrial experience provided very little benefit to the urban environment.
> 
> Good luck in your forestry biz as that is where your work is going to come from.


+2



> The last thing I'm going to do is go beg my competition for a job so I can learn how they top trees and fill out estimate sheets. I don't care how they do it.



Listen - If you want to run a one man tree service - you will need to learn how to climb. Period. You will go absolutely nowhere in the tree care side of your business if all you can offer is felling, pruning up to 15', and stump grinding. 

If you're not going to take the time to learn the ropes, stick to the stuff you do know. Use your saws and equipment for TSI, and leave the residential stuff to your competition. 

And stop mentioning topping. That's only giving you a bad rep here. 

This is not the industry for some dude with a couple chainsaws to say "Hey, I know how to cut a tree down. I bet climbing is easy, too!" Either spend the time learning the ropes yourself, or be prepared to hire a competent climber who can do what you can't.


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## Great Feller (Sep 14, 2008)

Screw this,,,, I'm sick of explaining myself and I'm especially sick of the few condescending people on here that basically ruin these forums. If your so damn good at what you do then get off your computer and go execute because you are not helpful to the new guys. 


TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING......


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## appalachianarbo (Sep 14, 2008)

Condescension? No. Constructive criticism (which you obviously don't want to hear)? Yes. 

Just giving it to you straight. I'm all for new businesses out there, but it sounds like you want to take a big shortcut. 

Let me ask you this - would it be appropriate for someone who ran a tree service for a few years to go buy a D tape and a biltmore stick and go cruise timber with no forestry training, and advertise as a forester?


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## tree md (Sep 14, 2008)

You sound like the guy that I threw in with. When we started out he had the large saws, pole saw and truck and trailor to haul away debris. He would free climb (hillbilly style) to a point. but would turn down larger trees. I brought to the table my climbing gear and experience, my knowledge of sales and advertising as well as ariel lift experience and experience at taking down large trees. We made a very good team and have done well together. We now have heavy equipment and a solid customer base and stay pretty busy. Sounds like you need to find a well rounded climber with sales and advertising experience and see how far you can go.


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 14, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> Screw this,,,, I'm sick of explaining myself and I'm especially sick of the few condescending people on here that basically ruin these forums. If your so damn good at what you do then get off your computer and go execute because you are not helpful to the new guys.



What you're taking as condescending is simply the facts of reality based on experience. Most working treeguys are pretty straightforward, don't take it personal. You can listen now, and learn for free, or forge ahead, and learn in your own time at your own cost....



Great Feller said:


> TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING TOPPING......



Topping is bad, people who practice it in residential arboriculture are hacks. I hope you learn that before you find a way to get off the ground. For now it's better for the trees that you're stuck on the ground.


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## Great Feller (Sep 14, 2008)

Sorry for getting mad guys.... I can't take criticism, I admit it! 
This is like my pole saw thread,,, I argued with guys on here for days that Poulans were cheaper and I was going to buy one. Guess what, I ended up getting a stihl. 

How much is the dang climbing gear going to cost me? Just the minimum stuff to get me off the ground a little ways. A list with some prices would help out. Do I need one of those little arborist saws? I'm not a big fan of heights either. I can see your points and how I'll be way more effective If I can get my ass off the ground. 

I don't have a clue how to use all the pulleys, ropes, spikes, etc. I assume I can rig all that up by myself? This is a one man show remember. Do I need to get a book or dvd on the subject? 

What are some of the biggest dangers to look out for when doing this? I can't believe I'm actually considering this now!


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 14, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> Sorry for getting mad guys.... I can't take criticism, I admit it!
> This is like my pole saw thread,,, I argued with guys on here for days that Poulans were cheaper and I was going to buy one. Guess what, I ended up getting a stihl.
> 
> How much is the dang climbing gear going to cost me? Just the minimum stuff to get me off the ground a little ways. A list with some prices would help out. Do I need one of those little arborist saws? I'm not a big fan of heights either. I can see your points and how I'll be way more effective If I can get my ass off the ground.
> ...



Give it up Feller, You're just not cut out for this stuff.
Without the skill sets you mentioned above, you'll never make it.
A wise man knows when to cut his losses. :deadhorse:


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## mckeetree (Sep 14, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Give it up Feller, You're just not cut out for this stuff.
> Without the skill sets you mentioned above, you'll never make it.
> A wise man knows when to cut his losses. :deadhorse:



Feller I hate to say it but reach is right. I have seen some long shots in my day but you are just too far out there. Based on what you know and how you want to operate I would consider something different.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 14, 2008)

Hang it up buddy, you're done. Fear of heights, check. There's your sign.


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## clearance (Sep 15, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Hang it up buddy, you're done. Fear of heights, check. There's your sign.



Perhaps not, I was afraid of hieghts somewhat, think about it, most people are. I just made myself do it, now its no big deal, and I have been over 180'. Buddy, as others have said, check out a decent tree service, maybe drag some brush for them, work hard and they will tell you lots, and you will see lots. Good luck to you.


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

I don't understand you guys.... What are you kidding me??? Are you guys seriously fuc&#@* with me???? I tell you what I'm planning on doing for my business and you say that isn't good enough. Rude,,, but Ok fine. You make the point that I need to get off the ground to make this operation work. I didn't agree at first but then I caved. I tell you I'm interested and ask for help and this is what I get? Everyone tells me to hang it up! Thanks for nothing.... I mean the help.


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 15, 2008)

You're welcome. 

If you're looking for partner, check out stihl alive.
If he's not too busy doing satellite dishes.

He's already got some spurs and topping experience. 
I think you two would get along great.


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

Yeah that would be cool if I could find some friends on here. Is this like a mental hazing I'm being put through before initiation? I suppose the next thing that's going to happen is one of you jokers is going to rub tar on my ballbag????

PS I'm rounding up all my forester and logger buddies in here and I'll be back. I've had enough of you damn certified arborists, your little saws, and big mouths. You're going to get hung with your own ropes!!!!


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 15, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> Yeah that would be cool if I could find some friends on here. Is this like a mental hazing I'm being put through before initiation? I suppose the next thing that's going to happen is one of you jokers is going to rub tar on my ballbag????
> 
> PS I'm rounding up all my forester and logger buddies in here and I'll be back. I've had enough of you damn certified arborists, your little saws, and big mouths. You're going to get hung with your own ropes!!!!



And do what??? Go around the continent beating us all up????

You want to know how much it would cost you. $150 for a basic saddle. $120 for a rope $50 for a lanyard. You can go old school with no biners and only knots. You do know how to tie knots, right? If in doubt, always use the Granny knot.

You can always use the logging chain as a lanyard as someone else on this board did when he was learning. And used a 440 as a pruning saw.


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## kennertree (Sep 15, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> I don't understand you guys.... What are you kidding me??? Are you guys seriously fuc&#@* with me????



Most of us are wondering the same thing. All that has been said has been good advice. Try working for another tree service to see what it's all about.


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

Well I'm sick of getting ganged up on in here. I don't know what I said that makes me sound incompetent. I'm 28 years old, I'm willing to learn, and I'm a really hardworker. I've got at least 10 years of saw experience and I've been through the GOL. What am I missing?? I've got a four year degree in forestry. I know the degree doesn't mean crap to a lot of you high school graduates, but trust me it means the world to someone who has went through the bs of getting one. Getting legs for my forestry business is all I think about. Trees are my life. I can't go from point A to point B without trying to identify every single one I see. Then to come in here and listen to you guys crush all of that is pretty disheartening. 

Who are you to say I can't climb. Yeah I said I wasn't a big fan of heights but I also wasn't a big fan of going to war. I had to do that. I can do anything I want, and I will. I think the biggest thing I can do for myself is to not listen to about 3/4 of you guys. If you have something positive and helpful to say then share it. If you want to be a ####head then you don't belong in here.


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

oh! Tree co with another smart ass comment!!! Come on guys keep them rolling in!!! 

Ps. Tree co,,,, the know nothing questions are because I'm a beginner you captain obvious #### face.


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 15, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> Sorry for getting mad guys.... I can't take criticism, I admit it!
> This is like my pole saw thread,,, I argued with guys on here for days that Poulans were cheaper and I was going to buy one. Guess what, I ended up getting a stihl.
> 
> How much is the dang climbing gear going to cost me? Just the minimum stuff to get me off the ground a little ways. A list with some prices would help out. Do I need one of those little arborist saws? I'm not a big fan of heights either. I can see your points and how I'll be way more effective If I can get my ass off the ground.
> ...



Grab a Sherril catalog from your work, and start familiarizing (sp?) yourself with the products related to tree work. 

Really I wouldn't recommend starting to buy gear til you've done a few things.
1. Buy and read the tree climbers companion. Then read it again. 
2. Find a buddy somewhere to take you on a few practice climbs, if possible using different saddles and gear. Go to 10', come down, go to 20', come down again, go to 30' or so hang around for a few and come down again. 

Learning to climb on your own can be done. But it's VERY VERY far from being the best, safest way. You'd be much better off to find someone to climb for you for a while, so you can watch, learn, and understand what's involved in climbing safely while your safe on the ground. Thats why you're hearing you should work for someone else for a while. If you can't do that, you're left with reading, watching videos, and wondering if what you saw was safe or not, and whether what you read was interpreted correctly. 

What are the dangers?

1. Falling due to broken tie in point, falling due to cut lifeline, falling due to improper climbing procedures, or the worst one, falling due to tree failure below you. 

2. Cutting yourself. Or worse, cutting yourself when you're not able to descend instantly. 

3. Struck by..... Limbs, tops, blocks.....cutting the wrong piece at the wrong time, or in the wrong way can result in bad things, if you don't know what's going to happen when you cut and you get it wrong. 

4. Electrocution. Power and trees are a very dangerous combination.

Also must be careful that whoever's on the ground isn't a "struck by" statistic either. 

Some jobs are doable as a one man show, but a climber needs a groundie....you should be the groundie until you've got a much better understanding of climbing, and if/when you start climbing, you should have a climber grounding for you for a while, so they've got a chance to spot what you miss, and help you before something goes wrong. Also, it's best to be prepared for the worst case, and that means you'd need someone on the ground capable of rescuing you if you get in big trouble. Too many times a climber has died from a survivable situation because no rescue was available. 

To be honest, you're a couple years from being effective as a climber, if you start learning now. (big difference between being in the tree, and being effective in the tree) For the time being, focus on forestry and tree service jobs you can do from the ground. Learn climbing slow and safe, and expand when you're capable of safe aerial work. 

Hold on to and use your determination. But don't let it overcome your personal saftey, and the saftey of those who will be working with you.


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the info DDH that was what I was looking for. There's a serious need for more guys like you in here.


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 15, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> Thanks for the info DDH that was what I was looking for. There's a serious need for more guys like you in here.



Thanks, but others may disagree.....I myself am questioning whether the limited advice I've given has put you at greater or lesser risk. 

These guys may be hard on you, but it's really for your own good. Have a read of my introductory thread here.......everybody takes their lumps at one time or another......

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=32898


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

This thread is over. I'm not here to make enemies. I wanted some advice and I got it. You guys can be pretty harsh for sure. I know you have to be that way with people because this is a dangerous occupation. It is kind of dangerous to give a retard a big chainsaw and say go cut that tree down. Even more dangerous to give him ropes AND a saw and say climb that tree. You guys don't know me.... maybe I came across as being retarded.... I hope not. I value your input. Everyone has there own perspective. You guys do this stuff everyday I don't. I'll try and listen a little better in the future and not argue so much. 

PS Tree Co,,,, you're cocky and I don't like you but I'll give you a 2nd chance if you give me one....


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## Great Feller (Sep 15, 2008)

I've heard 8 balls are always a good reference. I never had one growing up... maybe that's why I'm confused 24/7.


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## treemandan (Sep 15, 2008)

Great Feller said:


> This thread is over. I'm not here to make enemies. I wanted some advice and I got it. You guys can be pretty harsh for sure. I know you have to be that way with people because this is a dangerous occupation. It is kind of dangerous to give a retard a big chainsaw and say go cut that tree down. Even more dangerous to give him ropes AND a saw and say climb that tree. You guys don't know me.... maybe I came across as being retarded.... I hope not. I value your input. Everyone has there own perspective. You guys do this stuff everyday I don't. I'll try and listen a little better in the future and not argue so much.
> 
> PS Tree Co,,,, you're cocky and I don't like you but I'll give you a 2nd chance if you give me one....



No, just starting, at least til they ban The Dan again. What do the teach you at forester school anyway? Seriuosly. I don't know exactly. But whatever it is its NOT arboriculture is it? What exactly do you know about trees? what do you want to do with it?


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## Ekka (Sep 16, 2008)

Hmmm, a large cock chafer


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