# Structure of heavy head leaning DF already with a split up the back



## sierratree (Aug 13, 2011)

Solid wood, heavy head lean, DF, already split up the backside.....What are the internal characteristics of a very dead, but solid, DF, heavy head lean? Thinking of throwing a chain around the stem, chinching it tight with a chain tightener, to keep the split intact. 1/4 to 1/3 undercut. Boring backcut. Might trade out my boots for my running shoes on this one.........This tree is at least a 4 footer, maybe in the mid 50's. Lots of tension, about a 120 footer.


----------



## forestryworks (Aug 13, 2011)

Regardless of a bore cut, be prepared for it to take off early on ya.

Wonder if it'll pull some roots or just snap off somewhere?

Definitely is longbar territory, keep your kisser out of the way!


----------



## sierratree (Aug 13, 2011)

yeah..............root pull is on my list, this is on the top of a cutbank, and i can see the swan dive in my mind........haven't had much DF experience. how does it behave?


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 13, 2011)

Is it dead, green, seasoned?


----------



## sierratree (Aug 13, 2011)

dead, dry, solid


----------



## Gologit (Aug 13, 2011)

Pictures please. And what ever happened to that other tree, the punky one, that you were asking about?


----------



## sierratree (Aug 13, 2011)

the punky one is still standing............fire danger has been too high to cut........will keep everyone posted on that one......should have some pics for this one by Tues eve.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 13, 2011)

Whereabouts are you?


----------



## Gologit (Aug 13, 2011)

I think he's up around your old stomping grounds, Calpine, Sierraville...that area.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 13, 2011)

Gologit said:


> I think he's up around your old stomping grounds, Calpine, Sierraville...that area.


 
Oh Boy!

Maybe a pilgrimage is in order.


----------



## Gologit (Aug 13, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Oh Boy!
> 
> Maybe a pilgrimage is in order.


 
That's what I was thinking. If he can wait 'til the rains come this winter it would only be a couple of hour drive for me. Come on over, you can crash at our place.

By the way, the last time I was in that area I noticed they'd taken down the Wanted posters for you. You could probably go back now.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 13, 2011)

That is good news, the statues must have run out.
I used to sign them at the Sierraville and Loyalton POs.
Rain should hit mid Oct.


----------



## hammerlogging (Aug 13, 2011)

Understood heavy head lean, but the first thing that comes to mind is that, bored or not, can you fall it so that your back cut is perpindicular to the fracture? 

If not, could you bore in just in front of the fracture and out the back, and then deal with the remaining wood, whether bore again and out or a back cut?

These can be pretty tough, exciting, but lots lf pondering. Once you start cuttting on crap like that, I seem to tlhink something along the lines of "well ####, here we go. I hope this works."

Randy and Bob, you make me laugh.


----------



## sierratree (Aug 13, 2011)

The fracture has already separated from the stem. The fracture is connected at the stump, then peels away going up the stem around 30' then reconnects upwards from there. So I was planning on chaining the facture to the stem, cutting the tension on the fracture, getting rid of enough to get a decent undercut and backcut in, and so I could treat the situation as if there was no fracture at all. Situationally, what is left if the very heavy head lean and the cut bank at the base.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 13, 2011)

Yo! Hammer!

Splits are tricky, if too much wood is cut on one side, the stem may want to walk around. Boring in may work, however, there is the possibility of other internal cracks that might trap the bar. A Coos Bay cut is probably the safest. At any rate, close attention is required. As for the undercut, I would go nearly half way in, as steep and deep as you can get away with. High stump that sucker.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 13, 2011)

Just how big a chain? How are you going to tension it? Are you ready to dodge that chain if it breaks?

I have never chained or strapped a tree, of any kind.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 13, 2011)

By the description I would cut the strap loose and then cut it off the tree. If the tree moves at all you are into a sticky situation. I'd guess it won't move though. I would then bore the tree to check the soundness and do a complete visual inspection. Try to determine how deep that split is. Fall the tree inline with the split so it will fall as one piece.

I don't like the idea of a bore cut here but the other guys know more than I do. I would rather do a slightly wide Coos Bay. It sounds as if directional control is not a big issue, right? Use a long bar and cut FAST! Best have a backup saw just as big as your primary saw in case the tree grabs your saw.

Oops forgot, no chaining this tree!

Of course I have not seen this tree and I don't know what your skill level is. Be safe. Leave it if it above your skillset. 

The problem with a head leaner is the build up of potential energy in the tensioned and compressed fibers of this Douglass-fir. You have almost no directional control either. All of that energy will be released in a few seconds. When you add in defects like a split or rot that energy release won't be linear but will occur suddenly and unpredictably. Maybe that is why someone did not cut down this tree.


----------



## sierratree (Aug 13, 2011)

i will hold off on the chain. can't run that fast..........


----------



## hammerlogging (Aug 13, 2011)

2dogs said:


> By the description I would cut the strap loose and then cut it off the tree. If the tree moves at all you are into a sticky situation. I'd guess it won't move though. I would then bore the tree to check the soundness and do a complete visual inspection. Try to determine how deep that split is. Fall the tree inline with the split so it will fall as one piece.
> 
> I don't like the idea of a bore cut here but the other guys know more than I do. I would rather do a slightly wide Coos Bay. It sounds as if directional control is not a big issue, right? Use a long bar and cut FAST! Best have a backup saw just as big as your primary saw in case the tree grabs your saw.
> 
> ...


 
Thats what I'm thinking.


----------



## slowp (Aug 14, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> That is good news, the statues must have run out.
> I used to sign them at the Sierraville and Loyalton POs.
> Rain should hit mid Oct.



Statues? They have statues of you? :msp_ohmy:


----------



## sierratree (Aug 14, 2011)

Been doing some studying on the Coos Bay...........That seems like a very cool cut.....I have only seen pics of smaller stems. How well would this work with this 4 footer, very dry? Got any pics? Thanks...........


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 14, 2011)

sierratree said:


> Been doing some studying on the Coos Bay...........That seems like a very cool cut.....I have only seen pics of smaller stems. How well would this work with this 4 footer, very dry? Got any pics? Thanks...........


 
I have only used the Coos Bay on live trees that have a head lean. And not a whole bunch of those. However I have had success with the CB. Your saw has to be sharp and cut FAST. On a dead dry D-fir it would still be my first choice but wear your corks and be ready to run. Trees like yours are saw killers too. 

No offense meant but with all your questions you really should have a pro fall this tree or at least be right there with you. There are many little things happening at once that you may miss. And ALWAYS be looking up.


----------



## sierratree (Aug 14, 2011)

good advice..........sounds bout right


----------



## Gologit (Aug 14, 2011)

sierratree said:


> good advice..........sounds bout right


 
If you can hold off cutting those trees until the rain starts this year and my work slows down I might be able to come up and look at them for you. You're not too far up the road from us. I might even be able to talk RandyMac into showing up. We'll bring saws and tools.

I'd rather not give any specific advice, other than cautionary, unless I've looked at the trees or seen real good pictures of them.


----------



## paccity (Aug 14, 2011)

i would take that offer if i was you. great oportunity to learn a lot. nothing better than hands on instruction.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 14, 2011)

Gologit said:


> If you can hold off cutting those trees until the rain starts this year and my work slows down I might be able to come up and look at them for you. You're not too far up the road from us. I might even be able to talk RandyMac into showing up. We'll bring saws and tools.


 
Yeah you can count me in too. I'm always up for a drive to the Sierras. I was up Hwy 4 two days ago, near 7N09. There is a nice thinning/selective cut/HFI project taking place right off the highway. In fact the buncher was throwing debris onto the highway.


----------



## Gologit (Aug 14, 2011)

2dogs said:


> Yeah you can count me in too. I'm always up for a drive to the Sierras. I was up Hwy 4 two days ago, near 7N09. There is a nice thinning/selective cut/HFI project taking place right off the highway. In fact the buncher was throwing debris onto the highway.


 
Hey, that's great! We'll have a (relatively) young healthy guy to do the actual work while SierraTree learns and Randy and I watch, offer advice, and make pertinent comments. Lots of comments. Lots.

And that "throwing debris onto the highway" thing? We call that "landscaping".


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 14, 2011)

The PC term is redistribution of biomass


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 14, 2011)

slowp said:


> Statues? They have statues of you? :msp_ohmy:


 
Yes, carved out of some of the high stumps I left. I am considered a minor deity in some places, sacrifices are still being left by the faithful, mostly beer and hot link sausages.


----------



## Sport Faller (Aug 14, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Yes, carved out of some of the high stumps I left. I am considered a minor deity in some places, sacrifices are still being left by the faithful, mostly beer and hot link sausages.


 
Perhaps some pickled eggs placed reverently atop old Copenhagen cans too?


----------



## Gologit (Aug 14, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> The PC term is redistribution of biomass


 
I stand corrected. Sometimes I forget all the new PC buzz words. Actually, I forget them a lot.


----------



## slowp (Aug 14, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> The PC term is redistribution of biomass


 
Around here, it would be called Erosion Control.


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 14, 2011)

Would the separated wood hold the tree up while it was being sawed up? I probably have things all wrong, but if there is wood separated out the back, it might give a couple 3 seconds to cut before it gives way.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 14, 2011)

Ya know...I've never had a pickled egg. I wouldn't even know where to go to find one. I make killer pickled jalapenos but not eggs.


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 14, 2011)

they are pink, they are likely the gooduns. They have yellowish ones around here,(oregon) and they suck big time.


----------



## Sport Faller (Aug 14, 2011)

056 kid said:


> they are pink, they are likely the gooduns. They have yellowish ones around here,(oregon) and they suck big time.


 
Yep, the pink ones have some good spice and flavor, the yellow ones pretty much taste like vinegar mush. They make a damn fine lunch when combined with sardines or kippers, hot sauce, beer, pickles, and cheese


----------



## slowp (Aug 14, 2011)

So, when you guys go on your road trip, you should get Jamison to come and video the clustering and cutting.


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 14, 2011)

I like them with carolina bbq with hot sauce onions and slaw. I can't find that food around here..


----------



## Joe46 (Aug 14, 2011)

2dogs said:


> Ya know...I've never had a pickled egg. I wouldn't even know where to go to find one. I make killer pickled jalapenos but not eggs.


 
You must hang out in the higher class taverns Another word of advice. You don't want to be downwind of your buddy if he's eaten a few:fart:


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 14, 2011)

bigskyjake said:


> Yep, the pink ones have some good spice and flavor, the yellow ones pretty much taste like vinegar mush. They make a damn fine lunch when combined with sardines or kippers, hot sauce, beer, pickles, and cheese


 
Sounds like a feast but how do ya eat it? Bread? Fingers?


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 14, 2011)

056 kid said:


> I like them with carolina bbq with hot sauce onions and slaw. I can't find that food around here..


 
Dang that sounds good too.


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 14, 2011)

Yea man, if I cannot start logging here soon, I might have to open up a little southern food cafe/tavern. Have to find a few old black ladies that know all those delicious secrets!! Although I don't know if greens are easy to come by around here, polk salad either. .


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 14, 2011)

straight up or a follow up bite after a bite of sardnes, beeny weeny, vienas, bbq, hot dog. They are full of protine and they give you that ZING that fires you up for the last few hours. Vinigar & salt really gets your spit going too,(helping you to not feel so thirsy). I don't like to pack lunch without them. .


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 14, 2011)

056 kid said:


> straight up or a follow up bite after a bite of sardnes, beeny weeny, vienas, bbq, hot dog. They are full of protine and they give you that ZING that fires you up for the last few hours. Vinigar & salt really gets your spit going too,(helping you to not feel so thirsy). I don't like to pack lunch without them. .


 
So you eat the pickled egg like a hard boiled egg, any way that works (like with salt)? How bout the sardines? Any other tasty treats?


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 14, 2011)

I used to load them with pepper, but now I just bite my bbq samich, chomp a time or two, then bite a 1/3 of my egg and let the flavors mix MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm!!!. I ate them with sardines in mustard or hot sauce, good with vienas too. Eating lunch around the fire is something i miss, giving the skidder driver & loader operator flack for bein lazy haha, all in good fun!


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 15, 2011)

056 kid said:


> I used to load them with pepper, but now I just bite my bbq samich, chomp a time or two, then bite a 1/3 of my egg and let the flavors mix MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm!!!. I ate them with sardines in mustard or hot sauce, good with vienas too. Eating lunch around the fire is something i miss, giving the skidder driver & loader operator flack for bein lazy haha, all in good fun!


 
We are working right in town and there is a good Mexican restaurant that serves fish and shrimp tacos that is a 1 minute walk from the parking area. Still I like to bring my own lunch. But it is even nicer to have a rest room within a 1 minute walk.

I have a bowl of 20 hard boiled eggs in the refer right now. I'll have to make do with them till I can find a good recipe for pickled eggs. I have my own chickens that eat grass and bugs all day long so the yolks are dark orange and tasty!


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 15, 2011)

I like claussun pickels, get you a jar, eat the pickles and dump the eggs in there, it's that easy. Now you won't have a good beat cured egg, but you will have that zesty taste, let them brine for a few weeks so they can pickle in the vinegar.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 15, 2011)

Hard boiled eggs and Tabasco!


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 15, 2011)

056 kid said:


> I like claussun pickels, get you a jar, eat the pickles and dump the eggs in there, it's that easy. Now you won't have a good beat cured egg, but you will have that zesty taste, let them brine for a few weeks so they can pickle in the vinegar.


 
Dump what in the jar? A hard boiled egg? Without the shell?


----------



## 056 kid (Aug 15, 2011)

you got it! you could also slice some beets up & out them in there if you wanted. but I would just wait till you do a home made resipe.


----------



## Joe46 (Aug 15, 2011)

056 kid said:


> you got it! you could also slice some beets up & out them in there if you wanted. but I would just wait till you do a home made resipe.


 
Yup, the beets or beet juice is what gives them that good pink color. Used to be you could get a pretty good lunch off a tavern bar. Pickled eggs, hot links, dill pickles, pickled pigs feet.


----------



## paccity (Aug 15, 2011)

cucumber and onion in vinagar is good to.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 15, 2011)

Gotta go to work but you guys could post some recipes that would be cool.


----------



## paccity (Aug 15, 2011)

have a good day, be safe.


----------



## Joe46 (Aug 15, 2011)

paccity said:


> cucumber and onion in vinagar is good to.


 
I can remember my Mom making that, along with my aunts and grandmas. Creamed peas and new potatoes was another good one.


----------



## sierratree (Sep 1, 2011)

Well, the tree is down.............Strapped the split real good. Threw in an undercut. Cut the offside and stuck in a wedge. Tickled the backstrap until it gave way. Bored in the backcut, Came down with the classic groan and crash. Glad that's over. Now I can get some quality sleep.


----------



## teatersroad (Sep 1, 2011)

sierratree said:


> Glad that's over. Now I can get some quality sleep.


 
me too, I was puckered up just reading about it. even with the comic relief of recipe swapping.


----------



## sierratree (Sep 1, 2011)

here's the tree


----------



## paccity (Sep 1, 2011)

teatersroad said:


> me too, I was puckered up just reading about it. even with the comic relief of recipe swapping.


 
yea but tipin trees makes me hungry.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## 2dogs (Sep 1, 2011)

Good show! Did you eat any eggs?


----------



## 056 kid (Sep 1, 2011)

How are your eggs coming 2 dogs? I tried some buffalo trace, pretty good stuff.


----------



## paccity (Sep 1, 2011)

bt is pretty good. that reminds me i'm low. gota hit the ls before the weekend.


----------

