# CB reception much better if antenna mounted on headache rack/roof of pick-up?



## Billy_Bob (Oct 13, 2011)

Anyone ever move your CB antenna from mounted on the hood of your pick-up truck (like radio antenna is) to high up on the top of the headache rack or roof of the truck?

If yes, did you get much better reception? Or not much of a difference?

(In particular, on hilly winding forest service roads.)

FYI - Headache rack...
View attachment 202671


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## madhatte (Oct 13, 2011)

Memory serves, the wavelengths CB operates at are fairly long, so they're very directional and have a pretty sharp drop-off with distance. I think higher is better on account of the fact that it prevents shadowing by the cab. To do CB best, you need a Standing-Wave meter to trim the antenna to the exact length of I think 1/4 of the wavelength, which comes out to something like 3.something feet. If you use two antennas in parallel, you have a half-wave antenna, which gives you better reception, but is more directional still: if you are facing perpendicular to a signal, it'll come in crystal clear, but if you are parallel, it will be attenuated. A single antenna is probably a better bet on winding logging roads, duals on highways. I'm sure there's lots of information out there from the good ol' days of CB radio; this is just what I remember from growing up in W. Washington and from ET "A" School.


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## BigGthetree (Oct 13, 2011)

Tried lots of different setups back during the big days of CBing. Had a big ford with the large mirrors on each door and had antennas on each, but found that what "Madhatte" said was true. So next tried a large whip, about 6' tall, type mounted on springs attached to the rear qtr. panel just before the tailgate. It worked real good but sometime you had to stop driving for the signal to clearup. Last put one on the top of the cab. As I recall it was just about 3' tall. It seemed to work the best overall, but not as good as the door mounted pair when the direction was perfect. Not to mention how the door mounted ones kept getting beatup by branches on narrow logging roads or skid roads. It's pretty tough working in those narrow canyons sometimes to get any signal at all. I have noticed, now that I'm thinking about it, that lots of the trucks are using the door/mirror mounted on each side setup. Seems to me I remember talking to the drivers and some use two CBs. One hooked up to the pair of door mounts and another on the single mount on top of the cab.


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## paccity (Oct 13, 2011)

yes high and center. you will get a more even groundplane if in the center of the truck.


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## lfnh (Oct 13, 2011)

^+1 to that.


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## paccity (Oct 13, 2011)

also i'm not sugesting you do anything illegal. but you can get a big linear amp and make your antenna glow. :msp_wink:


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## Metals406 (Oct 13, 2011)

paccity said:


> also i'm not sugesting you do anything illegal. but you can get a big linear amp and make your antenna glow. :msp_wink:


 
WORD! We used to geek out on CB's when I was in high school. . . We'd play CB tag all the time. My buddy had a system that was less than legal. He could broadcast great distances, and "walk" on anybody around.

He got skip out'a the east coast sometimes. 

There's a lot to CBing if a guy wants to get into it hardcore.


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## madhatte (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh, man, them side-band linear amp guys. I remember 'em well. They'd flatten three regular channels up and down the dial, and you couldn't even call 'em on it because they were between bands. I remember "CB Tag" as well. If you had the duals on two rigs, you could triangulate to the target pretty quickly.


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## paccity (Oct 13, 2011)

ya, we used to do a thing called a squashfest, one to monator , everybody else would key up. the strongest would squash everybody else. used to be a good reason to head up to the hills on a friday night. burnt up a couple radios doin that.


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## ZeroJunk (Oct 13, 2011)

I was in to CB years ago. It was a lot of fun. I have been a licensed ham now since 1986.

Anyhow, higher the better as they said. And, the roof of the truck will help the ground plane since it is a vertical.

The wavelegth is 11 meters. So, 1/4 wave would be 1/4 of that. So, since most people don't want a 8 foot 6 inch inch whip banging around, the shorter antennas have a loading coil in them either at the bottom or spiral wrapped up the antenna. IMO you are still beter off with the longest model you can stand to look at or keep from being knocked off.


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## slowp (Oct 13, 2011)

I always had the antenna on the roof, and went through a few antennae. We have brushy roads, and there are a few antenna parts scattered about the woods. Parking garages are hard on them too. Thadumpsprong, thadumpsprong. Then the only space left to park a full size pickup in is a compact space.....:bang:


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## Joe46 (Oct 13, 2011)

I used a 102" stainless steel antenna mounted to the rear bumper.Worked pretty good. I now just have one mounted to the front fender. I probably only use my CB once or twice a year now, and only when I'm on road trips. There used to be so much BS going on in the Seattle/Tacoma area I never turned it on.


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## madhatte (Oct 13, 2011)

ZeroJunk said:


> The wavelegth is 11 meters. So, 1/4 wave would be 1/4 of that. So, since most people don't want a 8 foot 6 inch inch whip banging around, the shorter antennas have a loading coil in them either at the bottom or spiral wrapped up the antenna.



That's right, I remember now -- the coil wrapped around the fiberglass was what you were trimming on a FireStik. Geeze, you'd think I'd remember that.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 14, 2011)

Mainly I just want to be able to receive well. Listen for loaded log trucks on their way out. They can't stop suddenly due to all that weight. So anyone going in had best be parked on the side of the road by the time the log truck passes by (and announce that to the log truck before he gets to you. Like: "Pickup in the clear at mile 2".)

Around here there will be a sign at the beginning of the forest service road like "CB 3", then miles and half miles are painted on trees by the side of the road. They announce their position by what mile marker they are at.

I never drive my truck into any parking garages, don't have any around here. (I have a little car I drive when going to the city.) But I do go under low trees sometimes with the truck.

I'll move the antenna up high and in the center. Perhaps I can make some sort of hinged contraption. Then be able to lower the antenna if I need to go under low trees.


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## madhatte (Oct 14, 2011)

Or just budget for an antenna replacement every few months. You know, stuff happens.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 14, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Or just budget for an antenna replacement every few months. You know, stuff happens.



That is probably more like what will happen! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## madhatte (Oct 14, 2011)

I used to have an antenna that had a magnetic mount. It would get knocked off pretty easily, but it didn't break. Eventually it got stolen. Such is life.


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

This has worked pretty good for me. It isn't parking garage proof but it seems to stand up to limbs. The wire part of the antenna is replaceable and the magnet is super-strong.

Wilson 305-38 300-Watt Little Wil Magnet Mount Antenna


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## ridecaptain (Oct 14, 2011)

102 inch fiberglass whip with small ball and spring mount(large spring is too strong and will break mount plate or antenna).A steel whip will give better reception in clear conditions but almost none in bad weather.best mounting location is rear center of cab roof,this will be closer to overall center of vehicle,purchase a swr,trimer, tuner and install inline with radio,about $30.00but well worth it. As far as log trucks,most around me won"t talk 1mile,CB shops are a thing of the past and most knew nothing,as most drivers don't need long range communication they don't have good radios anyway,you may be just as well off with a cheap magnetic mount or a hand held


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 14, 2011)

ridecaptain said:


> ...A steel whip will give better reception in clear conditions but almost none in bad weather...



Well I guess that rules out that antenna for the Pacific Northwest! (Rain and clouds most of the time, except in the summer.)


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## Joe46 (Oct 14, 2011)

Billy_Bob said:


> Well I guess that rules out that antenna for the Pacific Northwest! (Rain and clouds most of the time, except in the summer.)


 
Never bothered me at all. I was living on the Olympic Peninsula. I think I may have been in a few rain squalls:hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Oct 14, 2011)

I think all the antennae I had were steel. They worked. We get a bit less rain here than to the Northwest.

Sometimes I wished it didn't work.


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## whslpnk (Oct 21, 2011)

*CB reception*

I am not an expert, but i have found that it depends more on quality of antenna than where you mount it. As long as you have a good ground plane, it really doesn't matter where. I have gotten best results with a 60" steel whip.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Oct 21, 2011)

The cb antenna on my old truck was center of the roof with a spring to prevent the Fire stick from snapping off. The antenna needs to be tuned and the coax used need to be well made with top quality shielding. Proper ground plain is critical for good radio reception.


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## slowp (Oct 21, 2011)

Good Heavens! I'd best go warn my replacement. I just slapped the antenna on the roof--it was magnetic, ran the cord through the door, and plugged it in. Do ya think it will blow up? Reverse the magnetic poles of the earth? Send "Come on down!" messages to evil Klingons?


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## Garmins dad (Oct 21, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Or just budget for an antenna replacement every few months. You know, stuff happens.


 
 i found a wholesaler for antenna.. i get 12 of em for the price of 6.. They seem to last me 9 months (for the whole 12)... You get great pricing in bulk.. :msp_sneaky:


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 21, 2011)

What is a "ground plane"?

I was wanting to mount the antenna on the top of the headache rack, but on the left driver's side. Trees overhang on the right side of the road, so I thought by doing this, I would avoid the antenna hitting some overhanging trees.

But mounting the antenna in the center (top) of headache rack would be better?

(No one is on these roads typically, so I can easily drive around any overhanging trees.)


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## ridecaptain (Oct 21, 2011)

Center is better,but most important is base of antenna is above metal obstructions.lenghth of antenna only detirmines wave lenghth(1/8-1/4-1/2)the power of antenna comes from the base area thus any metalabove base area is interfering with signal.I always use a small weaker spring preventing antenna from being snapped off,also make sure you have a good ground


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## slowp (Oct 21, 2011)

Billy_Bob said:


> What is a "ground plane"?
> 
> I was wanting to mount the antenna on the top of the headache rack, but on the left driver's side. Trees overhang on the right side of the road, so I thought by doing this, I would avoid the antenna hitting some overhanging trees.
> 
> ...



Aren't they planes that can't fly because of weather or other problems?

Antennae are magnetic to tree limbs. You think you can drive around but hear that loud THWACK, and then the scraping noise. 

I'm sorry, I just find this a humorous topic. I am not a fan of CBs, the endless chatter/gosoops INFORMATION going on it interferes with listening to meaningful classics, like _Bubba Shot The Jukebox_.

If only mile markers and loaded or empty were on the radio, it wouldn't be so annoying. And then you have to listen to some bored idiot back in Frogjump, Nebraska (not that there's anything wrong with Frogjump, Nebraska) whistling, or making pig calling noises on the blasted radio then wanting everybody to tell him where they heard him. Usually this occurs when you are driving against the loaded trucks, and heard one faintly say, "mmglubraba, Loaded". 

I have heard, "How do I kill my wife?" "Lets run that van of Hippies off the road.", and "I'm sneaking out firewood in the box on my truck. The Forest Service will never suspect." and other wonderful things on the CB. 

Rant over.


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## Metals406 (Oct 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> Aren't they planes that can't fly because of weather or other problems?
> 
> Antennae are magnetic to tree limbs. You think you can drive around but hear that loud THWACK, and then the scraping noise.
> 
> ...


 
My favorite is the deer hid in the middle of the firewood stack. . . And the blood trail being left down the highway past the game check. "Deer, what deer?"


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 22, 2011)

Billy_Bob said:


> What is a "ground plane"?



A term he found on Wikipedia, don't ask him to define it (or "ground plain" either). However, If you are mounting the antenna on the roof of a vehicle the ground plane is what it is (the roof), so it then becomes moot. A ground plane could be any flat ferrous material surface, you could mount your antenna to a refrigerator in the back of your truck and get the same effect. Without getting too complex, you want the antenna mounted in the center of the metal (which need not be grounded).



HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The antenna needs to be tuned and the coax used need to be well made with top quality shielding.



I wonder if he tunes his antennas the same way he tunes his chains?



HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well saws can be modded for power gain but a poorly tuned chain can make it as slow as a stock saw. The 385 with a well tuned full skip chain on 28" bar will run circles around a stock 441 running a 28" bar and a well tuned full skip chain. It has more to do how the chain is tuned then anything else when it come to performance.


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## Joe46 (Oct 22, 2011)

He really said that? Well I've never tried "tuning' my chains. I have been known to sharpen them however. I did have a serious talk with a couple of them one time, probably not the same as tuning though.


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 22, 2011)

Joe46 said:


> He really said that? Well I've never tried "tuning' my chains.



Absolutely, it was part of the MS441 or 385xp thread in the Chainsaw Forum. The link below will take you to Page 20 where he starts schooling us on "tuning a chain".

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/182020-20.htm

I have posted the links below his posted comments so no one will think I fabricated this stuff:



HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well saws can be modded for power gain but a poorly tuned chain can make it as slow as a stock saw. The 385 with a well tuned full skip chain on 28" bar will run circles around a stock 441 running a 28" bar and a well tuned full skip chain. It has more to do how the chain is tuned then anything else when it come to performance.



http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/182020-20.htm#post3194596



HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Most factory chains need to be tuned to fit the saw. For me riders then the teeth get adjusted to my preference.



http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/182020-20.htm#post3194611



HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> As as example ,if you have a saw that is used in softer woods and it is a 60 cc saw,you can tune the chain to get the most performance out of the saw. The way to tune a chain is by chaining rider height and changing the cutting tooth angle to be any were from 25 degrees to 35 degrees. Also can you tune a chain by sharpening the chain with no gullet for better chip severing.



http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/182020-21.htm#post3194645

I do not think that HBRN realizes that all of his posts are archived and available for review. This features makes it easy to discover the numerous discrepancies and errors in what he has written over time.


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## Joe46 (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh believe me, I know you wouldn't make that stuff up. He went on my ignore list very early on after I became a member. It was just to painful to read some of the stuff he came up with.


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 22, 2011)

Joe46 said:


> Oh believe me, I know you wouldn't make that stuff up. He went on my ignore list very early on after I became a member. It was just to painful to read some of the stuff he came up with.



You want painful? Take a look at these videos he posted of himself. You make the call on his experience level.

[video=youtube_share;l3IR7CHD1k4]http://youtu.be/l3IR7CHD1k4[/video]

[video=youtube_share;-834TlssXrM]http://youtu.be/-834TlssXrM[/video]

There are more out there if you want to watch and bump your skill level up a notch or two.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Oct 22, 2011)

The best ground plane be center of the roof or center of the headache rack. The one issue to be aware is the more electrical devices around antenna the more possibility of weak signal. A tuned antenna with high quality coax will receive better when the incoming signal is weak. Sometimes a noise filter is need to shield the power supply wire from emp pulses.


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## Billy_Bob (Oct 22, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The best ground plane be center of the roof or center of the headache rack. The one issue to be aware is the more electrical devices around antenna the more possibility of weak signal. A tuned antenna with high quality coax will receive better when the incoming signal is weak. Sometimes a noise filter is need to shield the power supply wire from emp pulses.



Thanks!

I made a metal bracket with hand tightening screws for the antenna. I can loosen these with my hand and slide the antenna to either side of the headache rack or into the center, or remove it. (There is a groove in the headache rack for the bolts for these.)

And I have a SWR meter, so can tune the antenna.

I have tools for regular TV coax, large and small. Do you (or anyone else) know if I can crimp on an F connector to CB antenna coax? Then make an extension cable just like you could for a TV? Or is CB cable a different size coax cable?

BTW Mr. Redneck, I once got a Safeway (grocery store) customer card and used the name "Joe Redneck". At Safeway when you use your card, they can see your last name on their register, then they say thank you and your last name...

So they would say... Thank You Mr. Redneck!


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## lfnh (Oct 22, 2011)

Emp pulses ? yup, got my tin hat right handy.


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 22, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The best ground plane be center of the roof or center of the headache rack.



Wrong! Once again you have commented on a subject that you have no practical experience with and have given incorrect information. Obviously you failed to read my post above on the subject. It is the mass UNDER the antenna, not AROUND it that determines efficiency. Using the middle of a vehicle roof will be the best option in a mobile setting, using a headache rack or pole will be one of the worst. Any material between the antenna base and the ground plane (as in your example) only adds to ground loss.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Oct 22, 2011)

Billy_Bob said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I made a metal bracket with hand tightening screws for the antenna. I can loosen these with my hand and slide the antenna to either side of the headache rack or into the center, or remove it. (There is a groove in the headache rack for the bolts for these.)
> 
> ...


 Your better off with no splices. The best cable is satellite 
coax cable, the good stuff has three layers of shielding.


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 23, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The best cable is satellite coax cable, the good stuff has three layers of shielding.



Three layers of shielding? 

Would that be RJ6 or RJ11? 

If you really knew something about the subject you would know the RJ6 and RJ11 both offer quad shielding. Why do you insist on giving these half A$$ answers?


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## Joe46 (Oct 23, 2011)

Well I'm just a touch jealous. The dual bushler pads trumps the single one I wore


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## Gologit (Oct 23, 2011)

Joe46 said:


> Well I'm just a touch jealous. The dual bushler pads trumps the single one I wore


 
Me too, Joe. I only have one and it's homemade. That guy must be one of those high-dollar timber fallers. :msp_biggrin:


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## Sport Faller (Oct 23, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Me too, Joe. I only have one and it's homemade. That guy must be one of those high-dollar timber fallers. :msp_biggrin:


 
:msp_thumbup: mine's homemade too, it was a burnishing pad for my pool cues, I gotta hit it with a rasp a couple times and dribble some snoose juice on it to make it look atleast a little bit used


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## LoggingEngineer (Oct 23, 2011)

Billy Bob, I've had al lkinds of CB mounts have not really noticed a difference, but all have used high quality 'Maxrad' or 'PCTEL' antennas. Not sure which name is the brand, but we run them for CB, Marine VHF, Cell Phone, Scanners, and the Company radio....it's maybe UHF??? Not sure, I'm not a radio geek. Most of my old work trucks had everythign mounted through the roof, works great, but after you rake the antennas off a few times and the roof gets torn you get water leaks. Now that they made us start driving our own rigs for work, I mounted everything on a cabguard like you are thinking. I honestly have not noticed a drop in CB reception at all with this mount, and I am dodging trucks every day of the week, the worst problem is when they start BSing and don't call numbers.

I've also had no bad luck with stainless whips in bad weather....Olympic Peninsula and SW Washington. One benefit of the cabguard is you don't have to listen to the antennas whine and hit each other and limbs. Here are a couple pics, my old 79 Ford has cab mounts, a cb and vhf marine...ummm...'elk fishing radio'. The Toyota I drive as a work truck has from left to right, CB, VHF, and Company Radio, all work fine and seem the same as a cab mount.View attachment 204079
View attachment 204080


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## Gologit (Oct 23, 2011)

bigskyjake said:


> :msp_thumbup: mine's homemade too, it was a burnishing pad for my pool cues, I gotta hit it with a rasp a couple times and dribble some snoose juice on it to make it look atleast a little bit used


 
Most of the guys I know make their own. My latest creation is a piece of industrial carpet with a thick rubber backing. It gives a great cushion and the price was right...as in free.

Back on topic...I've had good luck with mounting a CB antenna as high as I can and centering it on the roof or headache rack. The metal whip on the Wilson seems to hold up better than the stick antennas but they all get thrashed eventually. I carry a couple of spare whips and they change out quick.

I don't mind playing logging truck roulette. It's part of the job and I drive one myself occasionally. They're usually paying better attention than most people give them credit for. Accidents are time consuming, noisy, and require a lot of paperwork afterward. Everybody hates that. The log truck drivers are the least of my worries.

The ones that scare me are the foresters and "logging engineers". They seem to think that their increased level of responsibility gives them some special right of way status that the rest of us haven't keyed in to yet. It's always interesting to see how far up the bank they can go with their pickup when confronted with 80,000 pounds of logging truck on a blind curve or steep grade. It's also fun when they meet a loaded truck in a steep switchback and park their pickup on the _high_ side of the turn. Eventually they figure out why the truck driver won't move down to the inside of the turn and they make a better choice. Eventually. :smile2:


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## slowp (Oct 23, 2011)

So, if you are having antenna problems, will putting a co-worker on the roof holding a tin hat behind the antenna increase the power? :wink2: Then they get hit by the brush, and may be inclined to do some brush work on the road.


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## lfnh (Oct 23, 2011)

slowp said:


> So, if you are having antenna problems, will putting a co-worker on the roof holding a tin hat behind the antenna increase the power? :wink2: Then they get hit by the brush, and may be inclined to do some brush work on the road.


 
a high wind on an open ridge top with a few close lightning strikes, yes a tin hat should help the antenna switch to active mode.


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## Gologit (Oct 23, 2011)

slowp said:


> So, if you are having antenna problems, will putting a co-worker on the roof holding a tin hat behind the antenna increase the power? :wink2: Then they get hit by the brush, and may be inclined to do some brush work on the road.




Sounds good to me. Maybe if they have a metal plate in their head or a lot of fillings they could hold the tip of the antenna with their teeth. It's worth a try.

A caveat...don't run a big linear if you're using a human antenna extender. It might make them glow in the dark.


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## LoggingEngineer (Oct 26, 2011)

Gologit said:


> I don't mind playing logging truck roulette. It's part of the job and I drive one myself occasionally. They're usually paying better attention than most people give them credit for. Accidents are time consuming, noisy, and require a lot of paperwork afterward. Everybody hates that. The log truck drivers are the least of my worries.
> 
> The ones that scare me are the foresters and "logging engineers". They seem to think that their increased level of responsibility gives them some special right of way status that the rest of us haven't keyed in to yet. It's always interesting to see how far up the bank they can go with their pickup when confronted with 80,000 pounds of logging truck on a blind curve or steep grade. It's also fun when they meet a loaded truck in a steep switchback and park their pickup on the _high_ side of the turn. Eventually they figure out why the truck driver won't move down to the inside of the turn and they make a better choice. Eventually. :smile2:


 
Gologit, I hear you on the accidents. Just had one road builder back his Cat 330 into another road builder's pickup....totalled the Super Duty, but no one was injured. I work with some of those foresters and engineers you talk about....most don't pay attention or even understand when they are in the way....let alone care that they are holding up a truck that is making money.....some of us know what is going on, but many don't.


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