# Bitten again! From my 200T



## Eagle1 (Aug 11, 2005)

Well, last year on 7/17 I did the same thing I did today.
At the top of a large pine removal, Cutting the top, One handing the saw and pushing the top with my left hand. Of course all this happened in 1 milli second, but the tree did its usual "take off the top" shake, I tried to use my left hand to stableize and my hand made contact with the saw chain.
5 stitches in the thumb, a large chunk out of the pinkie.

Two mistakes. Don't one hand, and pull in your landyard tight when topping.
I would think I would learn, I hope somebody does.
God bless


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## Jim1NZ (Aug 11, 2005)

Eagle1 said:


> Two mistakes. Don't one hand, and pull in your landyard tight when topping.
> I would think I would learn, I hope somebody does.
> God bless



No 1 mistake, using the saw with one hand!!!!!!!!!

If you used the saw with two hands and put a rope on the top, IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED!

I don't like to learn the hard way.


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## NWCS (Aug 11, 2005)

i just got my 019T today and ran it for a bit.. this is the first top handle saw ive ever used and i dont even have a bar on it..

after running it i can truly understand why these saws can be so dangerous.. 
these things really twist around when you hit that throttle! grips are really odd to get used to also.. not much stability available like lets say.. an 026 where your hands are well spaced and absorb the engines torque. thats not available on these top handles.. i really have a new view on this subject.. and i sure will be watching myself with my 019!

may be a little engine.. but they pack a supprising punch in a little package.. can get you by supprise VERY easy.


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## iain (Aug 11, 2005)

i get why you one hand, but a topping strop and rope don't take as long to rig, as it will take waiting for yr hand to grow back !!!!


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## Ekka (Aug 11, 2005)

Eagle1 said:


> Two mistakes. Don't one hand, and pull in your landyard tight when topping.
> I would think I would learn, I hope somebody does.
> God bless



Three mistakes, get a bungee lanyard and dump the saw! I would say you put the saw up against the trunk to stabilize and then your left hand as well and the two met, as the head starts to go you gotta gid rid of the saw, fast, and I don't give a chit if your one or two handing ... get rid of the saw, grab the tree.

I have a hook on my side and it's pretty quick for me to dump the saw straight on it but sometimes I simply dont have the time or accuracy and I can tell you that I just either slip the saw down or dump it.


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## Dadatwins (Aug 11, 2005)

In addition to Ekka suggestions should have put the chain brake on and shut off the saw. hope your injury was not that serious and best wishes for speedy recovery.


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## treeman82 (Aug 11, 2005)

Or, if you are carrying a hand saw, you could always finish your cut with that. Yes, a Zubat will bite you, but nowhere near as bad as a chainsaw.


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## Ekka (Aug 11, 2005)

Dadatwins said:


> In addition to Ekka suggestions should have put the chain brake on and shut off the saw. hope your injury was not that serious and best wishes for speedy recovery.



Oh yeah, I must admit when the chit hits the fan the turn off is the quickest especially on an 020

Good thinking tex. You know what happened to me today, the friggin sprocket in the tip of the bar busted and a tiny bit of steel smacked straight into my left hand between my fingers, now if I was one handing that wouldn't have happened!  

Heal up and get back on the horse Eagle.


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## Eagle1 (Aug 11, 2005)

Thanks everyone. all god points and views. Looking back, I should have been alittle higher in the tree for a better push. The pulling with the bull rope is what I normaly do. Just another stupid accident. Really, you just always have to watch your _ss! Respect for the work and never getting compacant.
I will heal, but my wallet won't


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 11, 2005)

Saw a clip on the TV show Maximum Exposure. Arborist out out a big limb (size of a small tree) cutting the end off. Tied in high up in main stem. End comes off, limb whips and tosses him at least 5 ft in air. Fortunately the line caught on a remaining stub and he came to a stop upside down well out from the trunk vice slamming into it. I'm not a climber but my thought at the time was 'why wasn't he tied in to what he was working on?'

Harry K


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## underwor (Aug 11, 2005)

That is why the new ANSI standards say 2 tie in points when using a saw. This is a little harder on a spar, unless you left some hefty stubs just for the purpose.


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## diltree (Aug 11, 2005)

If you don't want to use a line, take a tittle for weight of the back side of the pine, then bang the head in.....no need to be forcing a piece over while making your back cut. Glad to hear the injury was minor. We are bidding a contract for mass highway, maybe if we get a bad hurricane this year we will be sending some crews to your territory....I think Cape Cod would be a real nice assignment.


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## clearance (Aug 11, 2005)

Pushed of so many tops with one hand on the top and one on my 020 that I can't even remember. Some times I have dropped my saw (on a lanyard) quickly to use both hands to push of the top before it can come back and close the backcut. If you do one hand remember that it is dangerous and concentrate on your actions. Never cross over the saw with your other hand and be aware at all times. I like to reach up high and cut of the branches above my head oppsite to the undercut to reduce weight and to make sure nothing snags me as it goes over as well.


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## Steebow (Aug 11, 2005)

So proper proceedure here is to tie off the top or is ok to go with the saw dump on the bungee?


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## Tree Machine (Aug 12, 2005)

Or both. Definitely shut off and dump the saw. Once the top is moving forward it is likely that the chainsaw is no longer needed.

I'm a big proponent of chainsawing the wedge out, starting the back cut with the saw, shutting it off, pulling it out, finishing with the Silky saw. When you do the full backcut with the saw, everything happens all at once; saw running, tree top falling, situation like Eagle1.

If you stop your back cut early and shut off your saw, you have time to triple check everything. Remember, this is not a moment to be in a hurry. This cut is for all the beans so if you take an extra 10 or 20 seconds to make sure all systems are go, it could make all the difference. I think of this, and think of the guy who dumped the top of a tree but was tied into it. He was catapaulted to his death. Had he shut his saw off and pulled his handsaw I just bet with those extra seconds he would have noticed where his lifeline was. God rest his soul.

With the saw shut off you open up your sense of hearing. Being able to hear the fibers cracking you can hip your handsaw and get both hands on the tipping base. 

Even if you don't use a handsaw to finish, or you don't dump your chainsaw, AT THE VERY LEAST hit that kill switch when things start moving.


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## Buzzlightyear (Aug 12, 2005)

Yeah i must admit i've started finishing the back cut with my hand saw on smaller stuff. On bigger stuff i kill and dump the saw on my bungee lanyard.

And check check and double check everything before i put the gob in......

Hope your hand gets fixed soon mate that must have stinged....did you prusik out ??


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## Eagle1 (Aug 12, 2005)

Tree Machine. Good info and post. 
Thanks


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 12, 2005)

I put a rubber band around the throttle to keep it full on. Then as the top goes, I detach all ropes, because they might wrap around my throat and choke me. My hardhat and safety glasses are on the ground, as a point of reference, a target if you will. 
Saw lanyards are for loosers.
Because my safety gear is hard to see sitting on the ground, I have my crew stand right where I want the top to fall, they just run just before they get hit. Chances are the truck pulling the top, will make it go where I think they don't know where it will go.
Workers compensation is for dummies that don't know about tax free cash.
The taut-line hitch ROCKS!
If I ever get out of this stupid hospital, I'll get some pictures of me showing you rookies how to work on trees.


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## xander9727 (Aug 12, 2005)

I'm glad I've never cut my thumb with a chainsaw.........


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## Tree Machine (Aug 13, 2005)

Michael Maas.....

Do you need a hug, buddy? What I'm getting is a call for help. Do you need to get it all out, to talk about it, to express your feelings? 

It's all right to cry, Mike. Release it all. Take a deep breath.... OK, that's right. You just let it all out.

EVERYBODY, come give Mike a big hug. There, there. Do ya feel better now?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 13, 2005)

Big hug?
Now someone is going to post that picture of MB's.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 13, 2005)

Here it comes.....


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## Tree Machine (Aug 13, 2005)

Mike Maas said:


> Big hug?
> Now someone is going to post that picture of MB's.


I searched that one out, the gang hug from the San Francisco Arborists Association. It has been purged from this site.

Anyway, that's a little off-topic anyway.

A former trainee of mine did an Eagle1 earlier this Summer, nipped his finger but good and the hospital trip (uninsured) cost him a bit over $2,000. He wasn't taking the top out of a tree, but just removing limbs, not rigging with ropes, but was directing the limbs by hand and got hand and saw together. My first question was, "Were you using a sling?" He'd seen me do this a hundred times, controlling the limb while keeping your hands well away.

Little oversights will cost you big. I'd shown him how to choker a limb one-handed in under three seconds, again and again as one of the bread and butter moves to sling a limb for removal control or to set a redirect.

Now he understands, but it cost him to have the importance driven home. 

I would rarely sling a top unless I needed to lower it and retrieve my rope from up in the tree.


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## Dadatwins (Aug 13, 2005)

Mike Maas said:


> I put a rubber band around the throttle to keep it full on. Then as the top goes, I detach all ropes, because they might wrap around my throat and choke me. My hardhat and safety glasses are on the ground, as a point of reference, a target if you will.
> Saw lanyards are for loosers.
> Because my safety gear is hard to see sitting on the ground, I have my crew stand right where I want the top to fall, they just run just before they get hit. Chances are the truck pulling the top, will make it go where I think they don't know where it will go.
> Workers compensation is for dummies that don't know about tax free cash.
> ...



 LMFAO, why not just add the price of the saw into the bid and when the top goes, let the saw go too? No sense having that loud, dangerous machine up in the tree while the trunk is whipping around.


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## pantheraba (Aug 13, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> I'm a big proponent of chainsawing the wedge out, starting the back cut with the saw, shutting it off, pulling it out, finishing with the Silky saw. When you do the full backcut with the saw, everything happens all at once; saw running, tree top falling, situation like Eagle1.
> 
> If you stop your back cut early and shut off your saw, you have time to triple check everything. Remember, this is not a moment to be in a hurry. This cut is for all the beans so if you take an extra 10 or 20 seconds to make sure all systems are go, it could make all the difference.
> 
> With the saw shut off you open up your sense of hearing. Being able to hear the fibers cracking you can hip your handsaw and get both hands on the tipping base.



Those are good tips...I always tried to slow cut the last bit so I could watch it start to fall and have time to kill the saw and hold on...the bucking bronco ride was always disconcerting.

I watched the Husqvarna demo at ITCC and they recommended what you do...finish the cut with the hand saw (they did use bore cuts, left a back strap and then cut through that with the handsaw).

It was a very controlled...and SAFE...looking procedure.

Thanks for sharing your expertise.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 14, 2005)

Using bore cuts (plunge) has safety issues of it's own. This is a felling technique best left for use on the ground. Taking out a top is usually a smaller diameter issue and doing a bore cut when fliplined in tightly would be asking for kickback in a confined working position.

Everyone has, or eventually will, have an instance where you cut out your wedge, do your back cut, the piece begins to fall, the wedge cut slams shut and the hinge doesn't break. This is a very dangerous situation where you're going to be taken for a ride. The bigger the cut, the bigger the potential for that top to shake up your world and if it pulls the spire you're fliplined into over, and then snaps all of a sudden, the recoil can pop you in the face and cause serious harm. This is where you get those videos of the guy getting slingshotted off the spire.

Use extreme care. Popping tops is one of those less predictable maneuvers in our line of work.


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## Eagle1 (Aug 14, 2005)

Tree Machine. Correct.
I wear that tee shirt with pride... "Take the top off, go for a ride"


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## Tree Machine (Aug 14, 2005)

Personally, I like the snap-cut. It takes a few moments longer to cut as the cut is longer and at a very steep angle. The advantage it when the top starts to tip, it doesn't go far as the wedge cut is only 1-3 kerf widths wide. When the limb lets loose it snaps, or pops off at an angle somewhat beyond vertical. The advantage being it doesn't gain enough forward momentum to swing the top around with you on it.

This is also known as a 'spear cut' as the cut end is sharp like a spear and usually the cut end goes to the ground first and can impail the earth like a spear. With evergreens it can end up looking like you planted a Christmaas tree

Disadvantage, if the top has a limb that comes back over top of your head, when the spear cut lets loose, that overhead limb can whack you. With evergreens this is not much of an issue.

This is not recommended for bug diameter stuff, but it's a geed method for smaller diameter tops. Let me try drawing this.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 14, 2005)

*from the ground*

Here's a series I took from the ground, which is a good place to try it out to understand the behavoir.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 14, 2005)

*from way up high*

This is what it looks like from 'real life'.

Now remember, do not try this at home. These are professionals. Not recommended for children under the age of 5.


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## Eagle1 (Aug 14, 2005)

Nice stuff. I had been whacked in the head before doing that  
Nice Pics.


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## diltree (Aug 14, 2005)

On the cut you made over the wires....i don't see the advantage of a slip cut, over a conventional notch. Could you explain your reason??????


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## pantheraba (Aug 14, 2005)

Treemachine, thanks for the info on the "snap cut"...it is a new cut to me. Your pictures helped a lot.


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## pbtree (Aug 15, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> AT THE VERY LEAST hit that kill switch when things start moving.



Amen to that!


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## Tree Machine (Aug 15, 2005)

I'm sorry about the nomenclature, and I'll agree with Dan. I've always referred to it as a 'spear cut' but in a long-ago thread (which I tried to look up but didn't find) another (highly respected) member called it a snap-cut. I am glad to know the proper terminology.

On the snap cut Dan describes, that's one of my most often used cuts, and I didn't even know it had a name. Thanks for clarifying that, Mr TreeCo.

On the REAL snap cut, where the two cuts come in parallel to, but from opposite sides to one another just, slightly differing heights, that is probably my most commonly used cuts for wrist diameter and smaller limbs. It keeps your hands away from the saw, and lets you pop the branch off predictably once the saw has been put away. Throwing the limbs allows you better control than just letting them drop. Residential city work is filled with obstacles (esp wire) that need avoiding.

The reason I did a spear cut in the picture was more for the picture than anything. It was a job for my brother in-law (no $) and I spear-cutted most of the limbs on that tree. The camera has a short delay between the time you shoot and the time the picture is actually taken, so we kept missing the action. By the time we got to the very top, the last chance, we got the photo. It was also a non-spike takedown done SRT, and it started out that I wanted action pics of SRT and redirects and such, but we were going for the spear cuts too.

Normally I work solo, so pictures of myself in the tree are rather rare. The pictures have pretty limited use for myself, personally. I take them for you guys because the pictures really help in backing up a description.


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## CoreyTMorine (Aug 15, 2005)

*3 basic techniques for topping? +one suggestion*

I have seen one chainsaw bite like you describe and two instances of guys putting their fingers in the face before it closes, and losing the tip of a finger as the result. Topping may well be the most variable step of wrecking a tree. It is definitely an issue i come back to again and again, the big problem being there is no single way to do every top. 3 basic techniques off the top of my head, each with many highly nuanced variables.

Face and backcut: ¼-1/3 face for soft wood unlikely to split, 1/3-1/2 for fine-grained wood likely to barber chair. [close routine, as top starts to go over bump the chain brake with left wrist, and hit stop switch with right thumb, drop saw to right (saw lanyard lays over flipline, preventing my saw from flying around and helping to tightening my flipline ) then place hands on top of the tree (where you started the backcut) and wait for the ride. Never put your hands around the tree or in front of it, its to easy to end up with a finger in the pie.] 

TM’s snapcut/slice/spear :good for trees on the more brittle side of the spectrum (big leafed maple, alder, poplar) and its best if the top is leaning out into the fall zone. It is less likely to smack your head this way. But beware of this procedure on strung fibry trees (hickory, elm, red oak in the fall) I’ve had them hang on by just a strand and swing out one way or the other, not real dangerous, just unpredictable. [close routine, the top will fly before I have a chance to do much of anything, ussually I turn the saw off, hold it tightly and in front of my face to fend off any limbs that may be rushing past.] 

Over/under snapcut, secure your saw, then wigle/push the top over. Suitable for tops under 14 feet and 5” dia. This is a great option, probably the safest, I would recommend it as a good way to teach new guys although sometimes they get spooked because the wood they are standing on is so small. [close routine, (always do the undercut after the topcut, so if the work/top does break off while you are cutting the saw is stuck in the pole and not the falling piece. *Over Under*) after you finish the undercut hit the chainbrake and kill the saw, I put my left hand on the work about 2’ above the cut to stabalize/ keep track of it, and pull the saw out with my right and lay it to my right side. Then with both hands push the top over. Sometimes I have to rock it backwards to get the snap to brake. 

Face and backcut with a pull line: probably the best way, but if the ground guys pull to hard to soon your going for a ride (they ussually pull as hard as they can) I find its best to have them secure the pull line to an anchor and get them to hang on the rope, this gives them a lot of force, but only until the slack/belly hits the ground. Just enough to get the top over center. But again that is a very situational situation. 

One thing you might try is to cut a limb over your head and opposite to the desired direction of fall, leave the stub about 2-3 feet long.(this little beauty was shown to me by my good friend Jon O'Shea of oregon) Make your face cut with the saw at high chest level,and about 18” below the stub, then your back cut. When the top starts to get wobbly set the chainbrake, and leave the saw tip in the cut for a wedge/in case you need to cut more. Now with both hands reach up and push on the stub, if it goes over center the saw should fall out, now reach out and push on the pole/tree to brace yourself. If the top won't go over cut a little more, but be careful, the stub doesn’t give you much more leverage it just trains you to keep your delicate parts away from all the action. I have cut to much hinge and lost them thinking that I had enough leverage with the stub. If the top sets back hard on the saw throw a pull line up as high as you can and get some help from down below, I ussually go around to the face side to set my pull line, if the top does break off backwards at least I’m out of the way.

I could write on this stuff forever, im sorry to be so wordy, it just is hard to hear about someone getting hurt. Your hand will grow back soon enough, good luck and god bless.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 17, 2005)

*popping tops*

Good stuff, BlueSpruce.

I found a couple images that reminded me of a technique I use, not only for technical tops, but a lot in tip reduction over top of houses or up above wires. This is where you can't just drop the branch, or limb, and where lowering on a rope is not a good option. You need to cut it, handle it and toss it.


In this first pic it was a super-dead locust. Second, it was over top of where one utility pole serves three houses. There were power, phone and cable lines x 3 right below me, so lowering with a rope was not much of an option. I was concerned that the whole limb I was on could go, so I was very concerned about shock load, but the top had to come out.

You can see in picture one, I have a redirect in the spar behind me. I'm up above it, but not too bad. To the left of my left arm, I left a big stub that I could lace my arm over for stability. I was not willing to flipline into this one because, like I said, I thought the whole limb could go, plus what I was climbing on was getting pretty small and it was shakey up there.

(This is the kind of work I LIVE for!)

It's hard to see in the first picture, but I have two choker slings set ~16" apart, and clipped together. You, of course, cut between the two slings. The key on preventing the shock load is, as mentioned earlier, put the chainsaw away, and pull out the Silky saw. I think I skipped the notch cut on the back side altogether as I wanted the limbs back fibers to help slow the fall. You clip the biners together and work slowly, relishing every moment of the process, thinking your way through what you're doing, what you think will happen, and what could possibly happen. 

Then, as the picture shows, you pull out your little trim saw (heh heh) and cut most of the way through. Actually, I was able to skip the Silky part and just pushed the top. Once it started to go, I reversed the push and tried to slow the limb to prevent a sudden impact. I love this job!

On the second image you can see clearly the two slings, and the tree guy about to remove one of the slings and do the toss. Actually, I had no more use for the sling so I tossed the limb, sling and all.

You need to limit yourself on size using this technique. I use my forearm as a gauge -no bigger than my forearm because after the cut you have to unhook and toss while doing acrobatics at a good height. I repeat, this is for small tops. Picture two is really about as big as I'd go. This is a good technique for keeping your hands away from the saw.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 17, 2005)

TreeCo said:


> I would never attempt catching it back on itself in that size of deadwood while tied to it for fear of injury or death.


I wasn't tied to it.

The other option was to go up higher, but that would have crossed the threshold of ballsey into stupidity. I could have used the technique where you use the pole pruner jaws to clamp a branch, pull til it snaps off, rotate around and open jaws / drop, repeat. You do that til your limb is smaller and lighter, then use dual slings, or if you can, just knock off firewood chunks at a time. If the limb was more vertical, I would have done a frontside shallow notch, back cut and then pull/snap and toss over my right shoulder. However, it was a leaner and my scenario below was what it was. Trust me, I weighed the options.

I would love to do highly technical, hairy-scary dangerous work, all day, every day. I love that level of problem solving, being in the crucible. That's where I feel most alive. But that's not what being a well-rounded arborist is all about.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 17, 2005)

Hey, here's another locust job, this was probably one of the most technical doozies yet to date. You can't appreciate how far overhung it was. Below the wires is a restaurant, and all their walk-in refrigeration was beneath me.

I climbed this one, dropped the big left-side top, looked around and it became clear that I was in for much more than I bargained for. It didn't look that bad from the ground, but it overhung everything a lot more than I'd anticipated.

I rappelled back out, got the pole pruners and a few more slings and went back up. Then I started pulling the tree apart with the pole pruners as described in the earlier post. When I got the Waaaayyyy overhung limb lightened up, I set a choker out on the tip with the pole pruners, put a face cut in my direction, back cut, applied the dual sling method in case it snapped (which it did) then pulled the tip toward me. The tip was rigged. The hinge area was rigged. The wires were only about ten feet below me so I couldn't just let the tip fall like in the previous pictures or I'd have been in deep doo doo. This was a high precision, tight tolerance 'no mistakes allowed' situation.

This crown-out took better than an hour, the problem of just that one limb about 30 minutes or more. The time-lapse video here crunches it all into 5 seconds. Click on the little black traveler thingy to be able to see it, more or less, frame by frame. 3.1 meg. Sorry dial-up guys, but this one's worth the wait.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 17, 2005)

Crap. It's 3.1 meg, and arboristsite only allows me 2.o meg. Let me try dropping into a different website and link you to it, try this http://www.treeguy.info/videos/wirewhip_locust.mov

Cool, it works (ya learn something new every day!) Let it load, and it'll start by itself.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 18, 2005)

Big compliment, coming from you, Mister. I may be an aerial technician, but my overall knowledge of arboriculture is a fraction of yours.

All the veterans would agree, it's all about having a lot of tricks in your bag.

I am severely dependent on *slings* and *spliced eyes* in my ropes and *caribiners*. And ugli gloves. Without these few things I wouldn't be half the climber I am.
(hint to the noobs)

I'm also a big fan of powerful, super sharp saws, but aren't we all.


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## CoreyTMorine (Aug 18, 2005)

*body control and reasoning*

Yeah, nice work Tree! You said somewhere in your post that "it had do get done." i am familiar with that mantra. It usually is accompanied by "i guess i trust myself more to do it right than any one else." 

One of my favorite movie lines is George Cloony in we three kings. They are about to go and hold up a camp full of arabs guarding some gold; one of the younger guys is scared. So cloony says to him something like "that’s the funny thing about courage, you first have to do what you are afraid of doing, then after it’s all done you find the courage to do it."

I guess dead wood is half again as strong as live wood, that’s another of my deadwood mantras.

Remember to breathe, stop frequently and go over the reasons why you are safe, breathe. Lower the heart rate, there is no need for a burst of adrenaline here, slow and steady.

Eagle1 do you get real “tuned up” while popping tops? Lots of adrenaline, sweat, not much memory of the event. We have to this point been discussing cutting technique, but body control is just as important. The distinguishing characteristic of the best climbers I have met is that they have the ability to reason while aloft. Like tree machine said about that second locust “It didn't look that bad from the ground, but it overhung everything a lot more than I'd anticipated.” Things can look very different, we often need to re-engineer as we go. If not well thought out this can lead into an “unknown”, and facing the unknown can lead to a fight or flight reaction. This is to be avoided at all cost. Again some good advice from TM “You clip the biners together and work slowly, relishing every moment of the process, thinking your way through what you're doing, what you think will happen, and what could possibly happen.” Know whets going to happen. Know what you’re going to do if something else happens. Breathe, and know why you are safe in the tree. 

I actually spent a good deal of time and money with a therapist who specialized in working with police and firefighters. It was a great help in getting to the point where I can think and reason while in a stressful situation. And something I can heartedly recommend to anyone who climbs trees for a living. 

P.S. Another related point, stress shortens our lifespan, so, if you want to live long time do whatever you can to mitigate stress.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 18, 2005)

Wow, call [email protected], that deserves publishing! Spoken like a seasoned, mature, skilled climber who just plain loves it.

I encourage everybody to read Blue Spruce's post again. Really let it sink in. This is the pure essence of being a good, technician and I couldn't have said it better.


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## NeTree (Aug 18, 2005)

Eagle1.... now you KNOW I'm gonna have to go down there and kick yer ass, right?


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## Tree Machine (Aug 18, 2005)

Panic kills. That's a good one.

Panic clouds your calm problem-solving senses at the very least, and steals your endurance. Your focus goes to what you're feeling rather than to the issue at hand. If you're up there freakin out, it is probably best you come down.

However, keep in mind, a technical piece is just a problem to be solved, or a series of problems leading to a solution. This is the focus of what tree guys do. They first assure to the best of their ability their own safety. Then it's pruning and cutting, preventing harm or damage to anyone or anything. All actions are a series of smaller actions, and if you lose track of that, the problem can seem overwhelming. Solve the problem in your head before you start mixing in saws and hands. Go through all the individual actions and see that one has an effect on the next. Don't just 'cut and hope'. Every problem has a solution. Think it out, be with it in the moment and if you can, _enjoy it_. Remember, you're getting paid to do this. Feel the joy in all of it. Just eat the elephant one bite at a time.


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## CoreyTMorine (Aug 25, 2005)

*Another cut for safety*

First off, thanks TM.
2ndly, have we gone to far beyond the scope of this thread?
finally to the point:
Another trick is the “breaking face”. This is defined by cutting the face out so that the hinge wood is perpendicular to the direction of lean. This way you can cut things up quite fine and still the top or branch will stay in place until you can get yourself situated. This works best in dead or very brittle wood, and does require some getting used to and calibration.
[Calibration: perform the cut on a non-critical branch in the tree and see how it responds.]
However when used properly you will need your handsaw much less, as generally you can reach up with both hands and push the work over and into the face.
The face cut should be much deeper and wider than traditional. Start by cutting a face about ¾ of the way through, then open it up to about 2/3 of the branches diameter. Now rev the saw up and start removing material form the back of the face, evenly along the whole opening. Slow steady strokes, back and forth or up and down depending on the work, I would guess that you remove about an 1/8 of an inch of material with each pass. Eventually the work will get “wobbly” at this time you should set the chain brake, kill the saw, and dump it. Now reach up and grasp the limb, or top, firmly with both hands and push or pull it into the face. Generally the back strap holding wood is “sticky” enough that it will mess up an immediate push and throw [a traditional face and back cut is more appropriate] so hold on to the work until it has stopped moving and completely broken off. Now you can toss it or drop it or clean your teeth with it, as you deem necessary.
Some notes off the top; I usually don’t make a back cut at all, the fibres on the outside of the branch make a stickier hinge. This face will, given enough time, fail on its own. Don’t waste any time securing your saw and getting a hold of the branch. 3 inches diameter is the biggest I use this technique with, beyond that you are better off with an offset over-under cut.
This was originally shown to me by Matt B. of Portland OR. The best removal man I have ever worked with, or heard rumors of for that matter.


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## rbtree (Aug 26, 2005)

yep, bluespruce, that works well. I often do the no backcut technique when I need to swing a branch around. Rarely use it for more upright work.


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## CoreyTMorine (Aug 27, 2005)

Yeah, i guess i mostly use it with horizontal wood myself. An over under snap cut is my tool of choice for popping little tops. Just figured I'd throw it out there, you never know whats going to work well for someone. 

"My bag of tricks is so big, i can't carry the whole thing around at one time." Rory.

When performing that cut on green springy wood it will sometimes act like G.Baraneks "bender" where everything happens really slowly. Be carful (when using it on green wood) that the top doesnt fall away from the face. It will pull a big scaf of wood with it and suck your flipline into the tree.


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## Gypo Logger (Sep 7, 2005)

I just got bit too by an 020AV. The story is here: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=24574


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