# Where does all the paper come from ??



## tramp bushler (Jan 9, 2010)

Anyone know where all the pulp that makes paper comes from .... One poster from Georgia was talking about how their timber industry was in bad shape and that got me to thinking ..... Since we use as much or more pap
er as we did before computers , WHERE DOES IT ALL COME FROM ???????? 
.
. Like newsprint . and computer paper ???


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## johnzski (Jan 9, 2010)

Ther is a local paper mill with new owners that seems to be doing well.they are building a biomass plant that will produce jet fuel and bio-diesel. the leftovers will be used for pulp for the paper mill;should help the loggers around here.they take only white birch; prices on other hardwoods are not so good but you can sell some where last year it was better as firewood


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## clinchscavalry (Jan 9, 2010)

This amazed me, that the US is second only to Japan in chip imports.



> The U.S. ranks 2nd in wood chip imports
> Posted 1 September 2009
> Filed under: Environment and Natural Resources, Ranking of 2 | Tags: imports, Japan, wood chips |
> 
> According to the International Trade Centre, in 2005 the United States imported $156,590,000 worth of “wood in chips or particles and wood waste.” That was enough to make the United States rank second in that category. Japan ranked first, importing $2,056,458,000, more than ten times as much.




And we have massive piles of tops and debris rotting on log decks


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## Grace Tree (Jan 9, 2010)

*Small Wood News . com*

smallwood news
I stumbled onto this awhile back. It's no connection to me but someone sent it to me because of the name. Kind of interesting to watch which way the investment and government money is flowing. I don't know if any of the info is worth a darn; could be mostly pr spin from companies but I'm sure there is some good info buried in there somewhere.
Phil


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## slowp (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm no expert but you can't make GOOD paper out of just anything. The paper mill in AZ yup, there was a papermill out in the PJ, went to 100% recycle. They took in all the recycled paper. That wrecked the local pulp market which was the small Pinus Monotomus trees. 

The Wisconsin/Minnysota mills liked paper birch and popple. They were not happy when the fire guys started doing underburns. Paper mills don't like charred wood. 

There's a chipping place down the road which takes cottonwood and other logs. Then they ship it somewhere. Rumor has it that you can just throw your chunks of wood in a dumptruck or what you have and get paid for your wood. 

That's all I know.


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## PB (Jan 9, 2010)

clinchscavalry said:


> This amazed me, that the US is second only to Japan in chip imports.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The chips probably come from Canada, lots of paper mills close to the border. Lots of mills up here in ME, sure some of the chips come from NB and QB(?). Lots of information in the paper about the industry, most mills here are specialty papers like labels, etc. Papers report a large proportion of imported paper as our manufacturing jobs went to China and other Asian countries.

I would guess that we are actually using less paper than before now that people use email. I only print out journal articles, all my bills are paperless, and just don't buy a lot of paper.


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## bitzer (Jan 9, 2010)

North of me in Wausau, WI and surrounding areas there are several paper mills. They manage some 90,000 acres in Northern Wi. They also own a mill in Brainerd, MN. I am not sure what they all take as far as species, but I know a lot of White and Red Pine go up there from down south by me. In the north there is a good mix of softwood and hardwood, but I am not really sure what they would be taking.


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## Uncle John (Jan 9, 2010)

Mead Paper and others own hundreds of thousands of acres ( maybe millions)in Michigan U.P.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 9, 2010)

When I was a kid in Maine we sold pulp to the mill in Orono and Millinocket .. We sold Poplar and Bamagilliad for 19$ a cord delivered ..... 4' wood ...Do you have any idea heavy Bam is . it,s pretty much the same thing as cotton wood . Full of water !!!! .. Anyway .. You should never go peperless on the statements or bill pay ... Never .........
. When the 2 pulp mills closed in Southeast no doubt Japans chip imports had to increase.... The western hemlock and Sitka spruce chips were primarily for rayon fabric ,plastics , food additives , and some paper ..........
.
.
. I,m not too convinced this yum yarding is a good thing .....Trees eat trees .. If you take all the cull out of the forest .there won,t be enough food for the up coming forest .. I think the tops should be left in the brush ......


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## PB (Jan 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> When I was a kid in Maine we sold pulp to the mill in Orono and Millinocket ..
> 
> ....Trees eat trees .. If you take all the cull out of the forest .there won,t be enough food for the up coming forest .. I think the tops should be left in the brush ......



No mill in Orono, just up the road in Old Town. I think the mill in Millinocket shut down, but can't say for sure. I know they have a recycling facility up there now. Bad area of Maine, houses for 20-30K but no where to work. The Old Town mill was shut down for a while, but the new owners have it up and running. They are making paper now, but will be adding biofuels to their production in the future. 

Ummm......trees don't eat anything. Trees make food from sunlight, not the soil. 

(I'm not going to buy/obtain a product just to throw it away, thus paperless)


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## tramp bushler (Jan 9, 2010)

.... Uhm . Sorry , but trees do eat trees .... Maybe it is an area thing ..... Thats what makes stooled up old growth timber ... A seedling starts growing on a blowdown or snag stob and its roots keep climbing down as what it,s growing on gets gobbled up ... So hundreds of years after it started growing we need to spring board up to get where the roots turn into a log so we can fall the tree ...........
. If trees only eat sunlight , why does Werhouser ect.ect. fertilize seedlings that get planted ....
..
..I guess the mill was in Old Town . But we did sell wood @ Orono . , Maybe it was a rail siding there . There were a few of them we sold at .....Fir and spruce pulp ...


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## PB (Jan 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .... Uhm . Sorry , but trees do eat trees .... Maybe it is an area thing ..... Thats what makes stooled up old growth timber ... A seedling starts growing on a blowdown or snag stob and its roots keep climbing down as what it,s growing on gets gobbled up ... So hundreds of years after it started growing we need to spring board up to get where the roots turn into a log so we can fall the tree ...........
> . If trees only eat sunlight , why does Werhouser ect.ect. fertilize seedlings that get planted ....
> ..
> ..I guess the mill was in Old Town . But we did sell wood @ Orono . , Maybe it was a rail siding there . There were a few of them we sold at .....Fir and spruce pulp ...



Okay, just don't know what to say to that other than read some plant biology books. Trees are autotrophic, that means they MAKE their own food through photosynthesis. Plants take up nutrients, but it isn't "food". No need to fertilize trees, they will grow but just at a slower rate (maybe). Fertilizer is used to get the trees started, you don't see them out there fertilizing every week.


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## Meadow Beaver (Jan 9, 2010)

Last time I knew atleast on the East coast here was that alot of the paper mills chips come from South America.


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## LarryTheCableGuy (Jan 9, 2010)

What I noticed here in Central Oregon was that the truckloads of short fat logs (doubles) go south on Hwy. 97 and the truckloads of long skinny pecker poles (singles) head north on Hwy. 97.

I was guessing that the skinny ones were going to pulp, but I'm wrong, ain't I?

.


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## Meadow Beaver (Jan 9, 2010)

Probably, there's some big pulp mills up by Portland.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 9, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> Okay, just don't know what to say to that other than read some plant biology books. Trees are autotrophic, that means they MAKE their own food through photosynthesis. Plants take up nutrients, but it isn't "food". No need to fertilize trees, they will grow but just at a slower rate (maybe). Fertilizer is used to get the trees started, you don't see them out there fertilizing every week.


.

.

. I would think the { take up nutrients } would be pretty close to eating ...... 
. Sorry , I,m not trying to be a prick .. If you were on the coast out here you would see what I,m talking about ...... Thats why trees don,t grow on flat bare rocks ... They gotta eat .....
. South American Chips .... ??????????


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## Meadow Beaver (Jan 9, 2010)

Yeah paper mills in our area get chips cheaper from South America than here in our hardwood forests. The trees there also grow back faster than here so their forests are more sustainable for pulpwood than ours.


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## PB (Jan 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...



You are talking about nurse logs, I know exactly what they are. The trees aren't "eating" anything, they don't break down the dead log or take nutrients from it. Plant a seed on a freshly fallen log and see if it grows. They simply take up nutrients that have been released by the fungi/bacteria that eat the tree. Fungi and bacteria actually eat the tree, not trees themselves. After the fungi is done decaying, all that is left is soil full of nutrients. 

I actually think Maine is exporting a lot of chips to Canadia. The Canadian government is giving money to the mills, so they are still producing.


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## olyman (Jan 9, 2010)

clinchscavalry said:


> This amazed me, that the US is second only to Japan in chip imports.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and loggers by the tons out of business--gotta love the gov and tree huggers!!!!!!!!!:censored::censored:


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## hammerlogging (Jan 9, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> I would think the { take up nutrients } would be pretty close to eating ......
> . Sorry , I,m not trying to be a prick .. If you were on the coast out here you would see what I,m talking about ...... Thats why trees don,t grow on flat bare rocks ... They gotta eat .....
> . South American Chips .... ??????????



Thats not being a prick, thats common sense. Plants neeed both- photosynthesis provides non-mineral nutrients and the soil (or substitute) provides mineral nutrients, all these nutrients TOGETHER allow for cell growth and function. Can't give a plant just sun and expect it to grow, it needs more than just light.

The nutrient cycle is that growth, breakdown, decay, uptake process. Ya'll, this is 4th grade science class, PlantBiologist, you've got to know this. Glad I can still manage to be pro faller despite my education..... Stem harvesting is mostly carbon, which is abundantly available. on the other hand, harvesting tops, slash, god forbid forest floor duff for biofuel, thats where all the valuable stuff is. I bet we can get away with removing a little from the system, but too much and we will see effects beyond decreased productivity, i.e. reduced vitality reducing pest and disease resistance, overall vitality.

There is a massive paper industry in the pine belt in the SE US. We produce hardwood and soft hardwood pulp for certain products like paperboard packaging.

My guess is that we are about 50/50 between what we produce ourselves and what we import. I'm sure we also export at times. It is definately a global economy, for better or for worse.

Damn I was on some tough ground Friday. I'm above it now.


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## slowp (Jan 9, 2010)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> What I noticed here in Central Oregon was that the truckloads of short fat logs (doubles) go south on Hwy. 97 and the truckloads of long skinny pecker poles (singles) head north on Hwy. 97.
> 
> I was guessing that the skinny ones were going to pulp, but I'm wrong, ain't I?
> 
> .



I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.



Markets the way they are I think that we might have some low grade sawlogs slipping into our pulpwood sorts. The good wood, no way.


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## cuznguido (Jan 9, 2010)

clinchscavalry said:


> This amazed me, that the US is second only to Japan in chip imports.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think that stat would be more informative if it were presented in terms of quantity i.e. Tons. There may or may not be a disparity in price and seeing the quantities rather than value would give a truer picture.


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## LarryTheCableGuy (Jan 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.



I have heard biomass mentioned a couple of times around here. One was in relation to a thinning project that "they" have been working on. Ten miles wide on each side of the Deschutes river (yup, an area twenty miles wide by I dunno how long, too long I'm sure!). "They" should be in my area this spring/summer.

Our lots are 1/2 acre (90'x300') and my back half is just thick with Lodgepole saplings and a few larger Ponderosas. I just sign a waiver and I get my backyard weeded for free. 

It all gets hauled out for biomass. Where to, I have no idea.

.


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## southernoutdoor (Jan 9, 2010)

In my neck of the woods i got 4 paper mills within 75 miles. One is in the next town over, we take everything to them stems, tops, thinning logs you name it, But so do alot of sawmills for particle board.. the days of big logs are looking poor bout two years ago we contracted to weyerhauser, we were 2 1/2 years ahead of projections and running out of places to cut


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jan 9, 2010)

Kingfisher said:


> Mead Paper and others own hundreds of thousands of acres ( maybe millions)in Michigan U.P.



Not anymore. Mead sold out years back to people like plum creek, GMO, Molpus ext.


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## 056 kid (Jan 9, 2010)

I used to cut wood that would go to Westvaco in Covington VA..

anything that wasent big enough for a log was off to stinky town...


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## PB (Jan 9, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Thats not being a prick, thats common sense. Plants neeed both- photosynthesis provides non-mineral nutrients and the soil (or substitute) provides mineral nutrients, all these nutrients TOGETHER allow for cell growth and function. Can't give a plant just sun and expect it to grow, it needs more than just light.
> 
> The nutrient cycle is that growth, breakdown, decay, uptake process. Ya'll, this is 4th grade science class, PlantBiologist, you've got to know this. Glad I can still manage to be pro faller despite my education..... Stem harvesting is mostly carbon, which is abundantly available. on the other hand, harvesting tops, slash, god forbid forest floor duff for biofuel, thats where all the valuable stuff is. I bet we can get away with removing a little from the system, but too much and we will see effects beyond decreased productivity, i.e. reduced vitality reducing pest and disease resistance, overall vitality.



Did you catch this post? Just so you know, I _really _am a plant biologist. There are very few things in this world that I will claim to understand, but plants are one of them. Plants don't take up carbon from the soil, they take up macro and micro nutrients and don't certainly "eat" anything. They only take what is available, don't break anything down. 



PlantBiologist said:


> You are talking about nurse logs, I know exactly what they are. The trees aren't "eating" anything, they don't break down the dead log or take nutrients from it. Plant a seed on a freshly fallen log and see if it grows. They simply take up nutrients that have been released by the fungi/bacteria that eat the tree. Fungi and bacteria actually eat the tree, not trees themselves. After the fungi is done decaying, all that is left is soil full of nutrients.


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## Humptulips (Jan 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.



They are shipping slash piles to Grays Harbor Papers biomass electric generating facility. I have a friend that hauls for the shingle mills their spaltz also. He said the hauling costs eat up the total value of the wood mass at about 40 miles out. Mills farther out have to pay to get rid of it. With the cost of collecting the slash you can't get much over about 20 miles out or it becomes uneconomical.

Hard to get the slash hauling trucks up to weight too and the mill wants slash rather then hog fuel from the woods. Something to do with water content in storage piles.


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## Humptulips (Jan 9, 2010)

Have to say I agree with PlantBiologist. Seen a lot of Doug fir growing on rocky points with little to no soil but good drainage. Back when I planted trees many years ago they wanted them in good mineral soil and even without much if any top soil they seemed to grow well.


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## joesawer (Jan 9, 2010)

Chip mill here in Alabama is crying for pulp wood. Both pine and hard wood.
So many loggers are out of business that there is not enough left to feed them.
I can still hear the laughter over getting the loggers to cut their rates and work cheaper and cheaper. That does not seem to be working to well for the companies now. But the ones who ran it into the ground sold out and left. 
I have a market for low grade tie logs, very high grade tight grain pine, high grade white oak and pulp wood.
The bad thing is that trees that where going to GP for peeler logs a few years ago are now going for pulp wood. And my dad has a saw mill!


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## 056 kid (Jan 9, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> They are shipping slash piles to Grays Harbor Papers biomass electric generating facility. I have a friend that hauls for the shingle mills their spaltz also. He said the hauling costs eat up the total value of the wood mass at about 40 miles out. Mills farther out have to pay to get rid of it. With the cost of collecting the slash you can't get much over about 20 miles out or it becomes uneconomical.
> 
> Hard to get the slash hauling trucks up to weight too and the mill wants slash rather then hog fuel from the woods. Something to do with water content in storage piles.



Its allmost the same picture over on the east coast. by the time you haul the wood, you have made about 15 dollars.

now if you can get with in about 25 muinits of the mill, you can make alittle money.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 10, 2010)

but if a dude wants to call it "eats" fine, the concept is analagous.

Semantics, jargon, don't deem intelligence. Carbon comes from the atmosphere. other #### comes from the earth. My interpretation of PB's was that plant's needs were exclusively taken from photosynthesis.

Plant growth is limited by that which is in the most limited supply from the proportioned ratio of what is demanded. chill.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 10, 2010)

OK ,, No fightin everybody !!!! 
.. Doug Fir has a tap root from what everyone tells me , and yes trees in good draining soil grow big and fast ....like crik bottom Spruce ......
.
. I myownself think the difference between (eating ) and Up Take. is symantical and not real ...... Think or it this way , if a cow stopped breathing all the food they ate wouldn,t do them any good . it takes a combination , but it still is eating .....:agree2:


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## Burvol (Jan 10, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Have to say I agree with PlantBiologist. Seen a lot of Doug fir growing on rocky points with little to no soil but good drainage. Back when I planted trees many years ago they wanted them in good mineral soil and even without much if any top soil they seemed to grow well.



You bet, drainage and competition for sunlight makes good Dougies.


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## PB (Jan 10, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> but if a dude wants to call it "eats" fine, the concept is analagous.
> 
> Semantics, jargon, don't deem intelligence. Carbon comes from the atmosphere. other #### comes from the earth. My interpretation of PB's was that plant's needs were exclusively taken from photosynthesis.
> 
> Plant growth is limited by that which is in the most limited supply from the proportioned ratio of what is demanded. chill.



What do plants use for energy?


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## clinchscavalry (Jan 10, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> OK ,, No fightin everybody !!!!
> .. Doug Fir has a tap root from what everyone tells me , and yes trees in good draining soil grow big and fast ....like crik bottom Spruce ......
> .
> . I myownself think the difference between (eating ) and Up Take. is symantical and not real ...... Think or it this way , if a cow stopped breathing all the food they ate wouldn,t do them any good . it takes a combination , but it still is eating .....:agree2:




Whew, this is crazy. Have any of you ever heard of Site Index ? Any gardener knows that better tomatoes grow on better soil. Same with trees. Good soil, good moisture, good drainage, and enough sunlight = happy trees and better growth. The idea that any higher plant can grow without nutrients is preposterous


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## hammerlogging (Jan 10, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> What do plants use for energy?



plants convert CO2 into starches and sugars with sunlight. Changing light energy into chemical energy.

blah blah blah.

more relevant to this discussion is the fact that this is not the only part of the tree's intake to allow for growth. They need to "eat" more than just sunlight.


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## PB (Jan 10, 2010)

clinchscavalry said:


> Whew, this is crazy. Have any of you ever heard of Site Index ? Any gardener knows that *better *tomatoes grow on *better *soil. Same with trees. Good soil, good moisture, good drainage, and enough sunlight = happy trees and *better *growth. The idea that any higher plant can grow without nutrients is preposterous


 
That wasn't even part of the conversation, no one ever said plants can grow without nutrients. 

Any gardener can also tell you that some varieties and plants require more nutrients than others. Remember most plants in the garden are not exotic, and have been bred to give high yield or a better tasting fruit/crop. To get the big tomato, the plant needs higher amounts of nurtrients, but the wild _Solanum _species can live in the poorest soils on the planet with little nutrients. Some species grow on the bare rock ledges in the Andes. To get the big fruit, there is a trade off: it requires more nutrient input. Current plant breeding programs are trying to re-introduce exotic germplasm to reduce the need for additional nutrient and water input. 

Everything added to the soil (N, P, K, and micro nutrients) are mostly to improve the rate of photosynthesis. So by adding these, you are boosting the capability of sugar production (real plant food). You can add fertilizer until you are broke, but it won't necessarily increase your yield.


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## bullbuck (Jan 10, 2010)

wich came first?the dirt or the trees?im saying the trees,but im no botanist,i believe that a certain amount of decomposing slash left in the woods is a good thing,it richens the soil,and from my experince the biggest juiciest trees grow in the deep soil


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## Curlycherry1 (Jan 10, 2010)

bullbuck said:


> ,and from my experince the biggest juiciest trees grow in the deep soil



Rainforest soil is only inches deep and then under that there is nearly lifeless clay.


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## slowp (Jan 10, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Rainforest soil is only inches deep and then under that there is nearly lifeless clay.



Yah, but I bet there's a lot of decaying stuff on the surface. By the way, Oregon Coast Rainforest soil is pretty deep. That's why it slides so well. It is a very rich soil without much rock. That would be the central coast dirt.

Then you have to consider the elk poop, slug poop, etc. All play a part. 
As do the fungi. So, now how about that chip market?


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## Humptulips (Jan 10, 2010)

slowp said:


> Yah, but I bet there's a lot of decaying stuff on the surface. By the way, Oregon Coast Rainforest soil is pretty deep. That's why it slides so well. It is a very rich soil without much rock. That would be the central coast dirt.
> 
> Then you have to consider the elk poop, slug poop, etc. All play a part.
> As do the fungi. So, now how about that chip market?



Not been my observation. More like thin layer of soil over sandstone. That's why it slides so well. Based on spending the last 9 winters on the Siletz, Yaquina and Alsea


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## treemandan (Jan 10, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Anyone know where all the pulp that makes paper comes from .... One poster from Georgia was talking about how their timber industry was in bad shape and that got me to thinking ..... Since we use as much or more pap
> er as we did before computers , WHERE DOES IT ALL COME FROM ????????
> .
> . Like newsprint . and computer paper ???



I think they are using old used paper to make new paper. Also they are using recycled steel and plastic more and more for building.


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## slowp (Jan 10, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Not been my observation. More like thin layer of soil over sandstone. That's why it slides so well. Based on spending the last 9 winters on the Siletz, Yaquina and Alsea



It seems deep compared to the pummy here. Although how deep the pummy is, I can't say. But you are right. It is good stuff.


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## Humptulips (Jan 10, 2010)

When I worked up in the Mineral block it seemed to me the top soil was practically non-existant. I can see where other places might seem heavy to top soil after being used to that.

Some of the road cuts I seem to remember cut down below the pummy and the trees grew great if they happened to get planted in these cuts. The rest that were planted on top grew horribly slow. I seem to remember the pummy was about 10 feet deep there. I'm sure it varies.


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## Hddnis (Jan 11, 2010)

I use sunlight to convert my ham and cheese with mushrooms and peppers omelet into a productive day.



Mr. HE


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## joesawer (Jan 11, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> I use sunlight to convert my ham and cheese with mushrooms and peppers omelet into a productive day.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE





Very True! Lol All of that nutrition can not be absorbed with out a little vitamin D.


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## clinchscavalry (Jan 11, 2010)

But back to the thread topic, I found this link that has a few fun facts, one of which saying we (the U.S. Southeast) supplied one fourth of the world's paper.

It says we use an average of 300 kg (660 lbs) per person annually:jawdrop: I guess if they include the normal woman's use of toilet paper, that would be believable, but 660 lbs !!!!!!

Wow, based on stumpage prices for the last decade, paper must really be cheap now

But seriously, trees are a renewable resource that we can manage for much more annual yield than we have at present. The industry provides jobs to many of us. Young plantations, grown just for paper, do a good job of helping with air quality. It hurts my feelings to see all this negative talk about using trees for paper. I always thought forestry was a good thing, but it seems we are becoming the evil doers now. Hey, I say find more uses for trees and logging slash, do a better job of forest management and churn out the paper so we have to grow even more


http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1497


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## slowp (Jan 11, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> When I worked up in the Mineral block it seemed to me the top soil was practically non-existant. I can see where other places might seem heavy to top soil after being used to that.
> 
> Some of the road cuts I seem to remember cut down below the pummy and the trees grew great if they happened to get planted in these cuts. The rest that were planted on top grew horribly slow. I seem to remember the pummy was about 10 feet deep there. I'm sure it varies.



The Pummy layer is on top of an organic layer then there's a pummy layer and it goes on like that in the road cuts. There's also a blue or purple layer that makes road builders cry for rock, if it can't be scraped off and will be used during the wetter season. I may be working up close to the blast zone this month. In that unit, trees tip over easily. We think it has to do with the loose pummy. 

Nobody goes to the mineral block anymore. Too bad. It is nasty ground but trees grow well there.


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## joesawer (Jan 11, 2010)

clinchscavalry said:


> But back to the thread topic, I found this link that has a few fun facts, one of which saying we (the U.S. Southeast) supplied one fourth of the world's paper.
> 
> It says we use an average of 300 kg (660 lbs) per person annually:jawdrop: I guess if they include the normal woman's use of toilet paper, that would be believable, but 660 lbs !!!!!!
> 
> ...





By far the largest percentage is in print paper. News papers, and computer printer paper (red tape), Packaging, labels, junk mail, etc etc. Ad up to way more than paper plates, paper towel, napkins and yes even toilet paper.
Naturally politicians and bureaucrats push the average way up.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 11, 2010)

Ya , ta don,t want to worry about anything an environmentalist says .......or a democrat ... They are about the same thing ... Social re engineering ...... One good storm on the sun will hurt the earth more than about anything we can do ...............


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## Gypo Logger (Aug 2, 2015)

There has been a fuk ton of wood cut since this thread was started and I bet there is more vegetated matter now than there was then.
Can't you hear it growing?


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## tramp bushler (Aug 2, 2015)

Where did u find this thread ?


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## Gypo Logger (Aug 3, 2015)

I found it at the bottom of a page when I was doing a search and it caught my eye.


tramp bushler said:


> Where did u find this thread ?


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