# PPE in your opinion



## Capitalist (Dec 12, 2019)

When is enough... enough?
What do you think is too much?

I see people constantly complaining when they see a climber without a helmet. Yet lots of guys sawing in bluejeans when they could be weairng protective chaps. 

I will give my opinion a little bit later on. It may not be popular but I do it every day. 

So... Are you out there in a kevlar strip onesie with goggles and a helmet, earplgs, special gloves, a respirator, and facemask, steel toed boots and safety chain with both hands on the saw at all times?

Are you out there in tennis shoes and a speedo, one handing a 395xp at 70', on your tippy toes?

What PPE do you use?

And... What would you choose, if you are forced to wear something you wouldn't but for regulations?


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## SuperDuty04 (Dec 13, 2019)

I'm not a professional sawyer and don't have a great deal of experience past cutting my own wood. However, I use to be a safety trainer for a major corporation in the mining industry. There is a point when too much safety can cause more problems than it helps. Anything that will distract you, hinder your ability to see or move when the need arrives, or causes so much discomfort that your mind is on it and not the task, isn't a good thing.
For sawing, I would think these items would be a minimum necessity: gloves, eye/ear protection, hard hat, and chaps.
Edit: add to this a good safety boot.


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## Freudianfloyd (Dec 13, 2019)

Another non-pro farmer here, and I am typically wearing blue jeans and my everyday shoes. I try to wear safety glasses and gloves, but I usually forget them until I am cutting and the chips are flying in my face. I have never worn muffs or chaps, I don't even own any chaps. And I don't wear a helmet, but again, I usually cut one or two trees and then I'm off to something else. I do however spend a lot of time before I begin planning out exactly what I want it to do, and the actual cutting is the part I think about the least, I worry more about falling limbs and the direction I am trying to drop the tree or branch. With that said, my approach isn't right, and could possibly lead to me getting hurt, but I learned from my dad, who learned from his dad, and so forth. I would get laughed off a job site if I showed up with chaps, muffs, helmet, gloves, facemask, and steel toe shoes just to drop one tree that is in the middle of a field. If I did it for a living, that would be a different story.

And I am not against safety equipment, but up until a few years ago, I worked in a manufacturing / machine shop, and the amount of safety equipment and safety shields they put machines makes them almost impossible to run. If everybody did what OSHA expects to the letter, nothing would ever get done.


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## anlrolfe (Dec 13, 2019)

When you say, "What are the chances anything bad will happen"
and then Fate says, "100 F-ing percent today"
That's when you wish you'd had your "Big Boy" pants on.

All that said, If you are truly "Qualified" you understand the risks and take appropriate safeguards.
Be ever vigilant aka, keep your head on a swivel...
Getting out of bed in the morning has a level of risk attached to it yet here we are.


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

Liking the opinions


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Dec 13, 2019)

I'll be honest, I don't wear the amount of PPE I should when sawing.

I haven't bought chaps yet, although I do want to. I just haven't made it a priority....been running saws so long without them that I don't find it 'necessary', but they are IMO.

Ear plugs
Safety glasses
Gloves
Heavy work jeans
Steel toed boots 

If I'm climbing or falling I do wear a helmet. I don't wear it if I'm just working on the ground bucking/limbing/etc.


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## Skeans (Dec 13, 2019)

When falling timber I’m wear either internal chaps that go into blue jeans or external chaps, suspenders with a bar pad, safety glasses, and a tin full brim always felt it’ll take a hit vs a plastic helmet/hard hat.


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## merc_man (Dec 13, 2019)

Assless chaps and a helmet for me

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## SuperDuty04 (Dec 13, 2019)

I guess i didn't read the title well enough. I thought it was asking what should be worn, not what do we wear. 
In that case, when I'm cutting wood, the only safety equipment I have on is steel toed boots. I'm generally drinking beer, too. Yeah I'm probably an accident waiting to happen.


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

I will not wear hearing protection. 
Twice saved me from widow makers I didn't see that would have killed me.

I dont wear glasses. 
Sweat screws them up and I risk not seeing things due to glare. 
I do not wear chaps. Never have and never will. 
Anythi g loose on me will get me in trouble. 

Most timesI do not wear gloves. 
More snag issues. 
Steel toes cause amputations. Would much rather have crused toes. 

I often climb in tennis shoes. Saves energy.

Helmet is ok in winter. 

Truth is if its gonna kill me no amount of ppe will stop it unless I am wearing tony starks suit. 
In which case... I got better stuff to do than saw or climb.


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

But i been doing this since since I was a child. 
Its kind of nature to me now.


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2019)

Freudianfloyd said:


> I have never worn muffs . . .





Capitalist said:


> I will not wear hearing protection.
> Twice saved me from widow makers I didn't see that would have killed me.



Hearing loss is cumulative and irreversible. Loud music, gunfire, military / industrial exposures all add up. At some point, you will not hear the widow makers either.



Capitalist said:


> Steel toes cause amputations. Would much rather have crused toes.



Horsehsit. Pure horseshit. File that with 'the Earth is flat' and 'the Moon is made of green cheese'.

Philbert


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

Philbert said:


> Hearing loss is cumulative and irreversible. Loud music, gunfire, military / industrial exposures all add up. At some point, you will not hear the widow makers either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sound passionate about that. 
I will be dead before I lose my hearing. 

Yes.... Steel toes have cut toes off. I had employer that saw it happen and wouldn't let us wear them. 

Things arent documented the way you think. 

Don't come in herre getting your panties in a wad.


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## Skeans (Dec 13, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> I will not wear hearing protection.
> Twice saved me from widow makers I didn't see that would have killed me.
> 
> I dont wear glasses.
> ...



I’ve had one of the skull buckets save my melon before from a good sized widow marker that came flying out of a fir a 100 feet up. 


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Dec 13, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> Steel toes cause amputations. Would much rather have crused toes.



Source - Foot surgeon in my family. 

1. If something is heavy enough to crush the steel toe to the point of amputating your toes, your toes are going to be amputated anyway.
2. They can save you from smaller injuries that could put you out of work or in great deals of daily pain

He says the myth that it's better to have crushed toes vs amputated toes from a steel toe boot is 100% false. First, he sees very few actual crushed steel toe footwear. Maybe a couple a year at most. He has never, ever, seen an injury from crushed steel toe that he felt the toes could have been otherwise saved had the user not worn steel toes. He does, however, see a TON of injuries that COULD have been 100% prevented by steel toe footwear. This man sees thousands of foot injuries a year...mostly industrial injuries. 

Absolutely zero reason to not wear steel toed footwear. None.


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## Skeans (Dec 13, 2019)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Source - Foot surgeon in my family.
> 
> 1. If something is heavy enough to crush the steel toe to the point of amputating your toes, your toes are going to be amputated anyway.
> 2. They can save you from smaller injuries that could put you out of work or in great deals of daily pain
> ...



Why not composite toed?


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## WmTreeCo. (Dec 13, 2019)

When I climb, fell trees, chip brush, etc. I always have: 
Hardhat, glasses, earmuffs, gloves, chainsaw pants, steel toe boots. 

Ive just worn it all from day one, so I feel naked without it. 

Better quality PPE can make a big difference. Stuff that fits comfortable. 

Are you interested in trying to start wearing some PPE, or are you just looking for others to reinforce your justifications for not using any?


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## merc_man (Dec 13, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Why not composite toed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Chain will cut through composite toed boots i think.

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## Skeans (Dec 13, 2019)

merc_man said:


> Chain will cut through composite toed boots i think.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk



I don’t think so, seems like Wesco offers it in caulk boots. On the same sort of topic you guys are ok with plastic hard hats?


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2019)

Legit reasons to avoid 'steel' toes;

- there is no crush hazard (e.g. every day footwear);

- electrical conductivity (use composite protective toes instead);

- thermal conductivity (see above).

Chainsaw protective boots incorporate fibers similar to those used in chaps in the instep and along the sides. But many also have steel toes (I will post a link to the video).



Capitalist said:


> Don't come in herre getting your panties in a wad.



Are those protective panties? Or do you refuse to wear a cup when playing sports too?

Philbert


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## merc_man (Dec 13, 2019)

Skeans said:


> I don’t think so, seems like Wesco offers it in caulk boots. On the same sort of topic you guys are ok with plastic hard hats?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My plastic echo hard hat saved my but once when a limb came out from an ash and hit me on the head. I feel any protection is better then none. 

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## Skeans (Dec 13, 2019)

merc_man said:


> My plastic echo hard hat saved my but once when a limb came out from an ash and hit me on the head. I feel any protection is better then none.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk



I was thinking of a kick back of a spinning chain not much difference between that and the composite toed boots.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Dec 13, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Why not composite toed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Honestly, I've never talked to him specifically about composite vs steel...so I don't know his opinion on that.


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Why not composite toed?





merc_man said:


> Chain will cut through composite toed boots i think.





Skeans said:


> I don’t think so, seems like Wesco offers it in caulk boots.



The 'safety toe' rating is for _crush_ resistance, not _cut_ resistance.




Skeans said:


> On the same sort of topic you guys are ok with plastic hard hats?


'Plastic' is broad term, including polyethylene up to ABS. But I can buy a basic, ANSI compliant, plastic hard hat helmet for under $10, and not feel bad about tossing it when its time to replace. Better 'plastic' helmets can be molded to provide side protection, and other features too; some are $140 !!!. Metal is hot / cold / noisy / dents and conducts electricity.

Philbert


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## Skeans (Dec 13, 2019)

Philbert said:


> The 'safety toe' rating is for _crush_ resistance, not _cut_ resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We had a good buddy well helping back fall(pound wedges) take a widow marker just like I did the hard hat didn’t with stand the hit like a metal one will.


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Source - Foot surgeon in my family.
> 
> 1. If something is heavy enough to crush the steel toe to the point of amputating your toes, your toes are going to be amputated anyway.
> 2. They can save you from smaller injuries that could put you out of work or in great deals of daily pain
> ...





EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Source - Foot surgeon in my family.
> 
> 1. If something is heavy enough to crush the steel toe to the point of amputating your toes, your toes are going to be amputated anyway.
> 2. They can save you from smaller injuries that could put you out of work or in great deals of daily pain
> ...


So hes a surgeon or an engineer?
A doctors opinion dont mean much to me in regards to my occupation. 

Fact is steel toe amputations have happened. Regardless I got ten toes. 
I did break the arch of my foot in a fall though.


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

Philbert said:


> Legit reasons to avoid 'steel' toes;
> 
> - there is no crush hazard (e.g. every day footwear);
> 
> ...


How do you earn a living?
What I mean is... Are you anarmchair quarterback or do you climb?


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> So hes a surgeon or an engineer?
> A doctors opinion dont mean much to me in regards to my occupation.





Capitalist said:


> How do you earn a living?
> What I mean is... Are you anarmchair quarterback or do you climb?


Actually, I am a safety engineer, with degrees, and certifications, and 30+ years of experience in that area. 
Been running chainsaws for 40+ years, mostly doing disaster / storm clean up for the past 20 or so years.
So, not just opinions that I am randomly pulling out of somewhere, without looking to see if they have any basis in fact.

Philbert


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

Philbert said:


> Actually, I am a safety engineer, with degrees, and certifications, and 30+ years of experience in that area.
> Been running chainsaws for 40+ years, mostly doing disaster / storm clean up for the past 20 or so years.
> So, not just opinions that I am randomly pulling out of somewhere, without looking to see if they have any basis in fact.
> 
> Philbert


I dont expect or recommend anyone do things my way. 
I will continue to do them my way though. 
I have figured out what works for me. 

My biggest issue is glasses. I need them but they all fog and get sweat covered and glare. I get tired of digging sawdust outta my eyes.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Dec 13, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> So hes a surgeon or an engineer?
> A doctors opinion dont mean much to me in regards to my occupation.
> 
> Fact is steel toe amputations have happened. Regardless I got ten toes.
> I did break the arch of my foot in a fall though.


I don't know of any 'Foot Engineers' so he's a surgeon. 

A guy that has seen and treated tens of thousands of injuries directly related to myths that you're spewing on the internet is of no interest to you? That's fine, you wear whatever you're comfortable with. I couldn't possibly care less what footwear you choose. Try not to spread demonstrably false myths though.

Yes, toes have been severed by steel toes. That is not a reason to not wear steel toes. Just like it's true that people have died while wearing a seat belt. That's not a valid reason to tell others that it's a bad idea to wear a seat belt when it has been proven you are significantly more likely to survive any given crash with a seat belt than without.


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2019)

I wear Rx glasses, so I have no choice. 

Some of the anti-fog stuff (e.g. 'Op-Drops') help. 

Some guys use the Bugz-Eye mesh ones. Can't tell you that every OSHA guy will approve them, but does not sound like you care about that. 

https://www.baileysonline.com/bugz-...MIj57m97-z5gIVhYbACh0CJwoZEAQYASABEgKr4_D_BwE

Philbert


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Dec 13, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> I dont expect or recommend anyone do things my way.
> I will continue to do them my way though.
> I have figured out what works for me.
> 
> My biggest issue is glasses. I need them but they all fog and get sweat covered and glare. I get tired of digging sawdust outta my eyes.



Tried the 'bugeyes' style steel mesh kind? Keeps chunks out of your eyes without fogging up


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Tried the 'bugeyes' style steel mesh kind? Keeps chunks out of your eyes without fogging up


No but now I am interested just because of the fashion possibilities


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

Oh yeah!


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## Capitalist (Dec 13, 2019)

Chainsawing now!


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Dec 13, 2019)

Would be hilarious if you showed up for a job in that


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Would be hilarious if you showed up for a job in that


It would undo years of smiling service in about 2 seconds lol


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## David Gruber (Dec 14, 2019)

I always wear eye protection after nearly losing an eye using a grinder with no ppe. Yes 3 months off work and permanent eye damage.. Thankfully I had a couple of really good surgeons put me back together so now I can see out the eye. And I always use hearing protection when running equipment. I just recently got chaps and a hard hat. Don't think the hard hat is necessary since I dont drop trees. But it has ear muffs and face screen attached.


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## NCTREE (Dec 14, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> I will not wear hearing protection.
> Twice saved me from widow makers I didn't see that would have killed me.
> 
> I dont wear glasses.
> ...


My helmet save my life this summer setting a rope in the tree from the ground when a dead piece broke loose and hit me. It knocked me to the ground, guaranteed death sentence or at least vegetable status if I wouldn't of had it on. I was sore for a week!

The longer you do tree work your chances of something happening increases even if you are safe and wear PPE, its not worth the risk to me plus I like wearing PPE.


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

NCTREE said:


> My helmet save my life this summer setting a rope in the tree from the ground when a dead piece broke loose and hit me. It knocked me to the ground, guaranteed death sentence or at least vegetable status if I wouldn't of had it on. I was sore for a week!
> 
> The longer you do tree work your chances of something happening increases even if you are safe and wear PPE, its not worth the risk to me plus I like wearing PPE.


I got a few scars on my head. 
Its partially my upbringing I suppose. 
We all logged where I grew up. 
None of us wore hard hats. 
One sawyer that worked with me and my brother did but he had it for the face screen. 

If I worked in pine though you can bet I would wear a helmet and hard hat constantly.


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## jzack605 (Dec 14, 2019)

Helmet, ear protection and gloves always for me now. Chaps when cutting on ground. It’s definitely been indoctrinated into me a bit from my full time job which is a good thing.

High viz safety vests in my opinion are too much and detrimental, especially with a chipper. Everything gets caught on them.


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## gary courtney (Dec 14, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> Don't come in herre getting your panties in a wad.


you asked for feedback.you got it. wasn't to your liking eh?


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

#1 safety device is a guy on theground


gary courtney said:


> you asked for feedback.you got it. wasn't to your liking eh?


Shhh shhh.... Go to facebook and try to offend people. 
Everything is cool here.


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## treebilly (Dec 14, 2019)

Well I wear my helmet,safety glasses, and hearing protection daily. Also wear my chainsaw pants every day. Beyond that we have daily safety meetings and countless hours of training.


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## treebilly (Dec 14, 2019)

Bringing a safety oriented culture into anywhere is going to have resistance. The company I’m with is not without its flaws but they are working toward a bigger goal. I go above and beyond to help educate them and the other employees on being safe. Funny thing is. Production has gone way up since starting an actual safety and training program


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## jzack605 (Dec 14, 2019)

Glasses when they start fogging up are pretty poor pieces of PPE


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## gary courtney (Dec 14, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> #1 safety device is a guy on theground
> 
> Shhh shhh.... Go to facebook and try to offend people.
> Everything is cool here.


not on facebook amigo


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

gary courtney said:


> not on facebook amigo


I like you already


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2019)

jzack605 said:


> High viz safety vests in my opinion are too much and detrimental, especially with a chipper. Everything gets caught on them.



Hi-Viz is situational dependent. Important when working around heavy equipment, or near roadways.

Get a vest that fits, or a ANSI Class II compliant T-shirt.

Philbert


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

Philbert said:


> Hi-Viz is situational dependent. Important when working a round heavy equipment, or near roadways.
> 
> Get a vest that fits, or a ANSI Class II compliant T-shirt.
> 
> Philbert


The most dangerous thing I have encountered yet is a ground guy that gets lost in space. Doesn't look up when they hear the saw or before they approach. 

Thats my biggest fear doing this. 
Hi viz on them would certainly help. 
Sometimes I will be looking around for them and cant find them only to discover they were in my field of view just kinda washed out by leaves and branches.


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## full chizel (Dec 14, 2019)

Oakley sunglasses, Mechanix type gloves, composite toe Danner boots, and ear plugs.

If i’m knocking trees over a helmet and one ear doesn’t have plugs in because i like to hear it crackin’ and poppin’ so i know what its doing


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## gary courtney (Dec 14, 2019)

Philbert said:


> Hi-Viz is situational dependent. Important when working around heavy equipment, or near roadways.
> 
> Get a vest that fits, or a ANSI Class II compliant T-shirt.
> 
> Philbert


In the fire service it was "sop" to wear hi-viz especially on 10-50 calls.


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## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2019)

full chizel said:


> Oakley sunglasses, Mechanix type gloves, composite toe Danner boots, and ear plugs.
> 
> If i’m knocking trees over a helmet and one ear doesn’t have plugs in because i like to hear it crackin’ and poppin’ so i know what its doing


You can still hear? I got to ask if that was thunder !


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## jzack605 (Dec 14, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> The most dangerous thing I have encountered yet is a ground guy that gets lost in space. Doesn't look up when they hear the saw or before they approach.
> 
> Thats my biggest fear doing this.
> Hi viz on them would certainly help.
> Sometimes I will be looking around for them and cant find them only to discover they were in my field of view just kinda washed out by leaves and branches.


substituting a high viz vest with helmet, or clothing/work attire, that are high viz are way more effective and efficient.


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

jzack605 said:


> substituting a high viz vest with helmet, or normal clothing, that are high viz are way more effective and efficient.


Probably so


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## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> The most dangerous thing I have encountered yet is a ground guy that gets lost in space. Doesn't look up when they hear the saw or before they approach.
> 
> Thats my biggest fear doing this.
> Hi viz on them would certainly help.
> Sometimes I will be looking around for them and cant find them only to discover they were in my field of view just kinda washed out by leaves and branches.


I seen that type they never learn and just keep doing it. make him wear hi vis.


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

lone wolf said:


> I seen that type they never learn and just keep doing it. make him wear hi vis.


Guy I have now is cautious. 

Others not so much.
Hard to get it through some of their heads, "when you hear that saw eyes on me and be well out of the way."


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## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2019)

Capitalist said:


> Guy I have now is cautious.
> 
> Others not so much.
> Hard to get it through some of their heads, "when you hear that saw eyes on me and be well out of the way."


And if a rope is on it they act as though its safe to stand under the piece as if nothing could ever break or get cut.


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 14, 2019)

I'm a pro and here is our reality. Worker's Compensation (Worksafe BC)is a government run agency that provides injury compensation to every worker in the province, therefore they set the safety rules. 

Get injured and there are only two (usually) parties to be blamed, the worker or the company. The majority of the time, it's the company who gets blamed due to "failure to properly supervise"or "failure to provide a safe working environment". Hence, full PPE is supplied and mandatory, employees must sign each safety briefing, and employees must sign for each training session.

If a worker gets hurt and the employer is deemed responsible, the cost of the compensation/rehab/medical is added to their worker comp insurance premium. If the worker was deemed negligent then they may not qualify for compensation.

So everyone wears steel toes, hard hat, slash pants, gloves, hearing protection, safety glasses and a screen. And yes, it does rain here and there are times when we can't see and guys will take their glasses off. Just don't get caught by the safety guy or the boss.


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## full chizel (Dec 14, 2019)

lone wolf said:


> You can still hear? I got to ask if that was thunder !


Huh? What?!?


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## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2019)

full chizel said:


> Huh? What?!?


I can hardly hear thunder i'm so deaf from tree work.


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## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2019)

Which brings this up wear hearing protection !


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## full chizel (Dec 14, 2019)

I don’t cut wood nearly as much as you do


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## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2019)

full chizel said:


> I don’t cut wood nearly as much as you do


43 years


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## Capitalist (Dec 14, 2019)

Thats the other great frustration of my life. 
People who talk like I'm not moving and moving things that blocks out their sound entirely. I am going deaf. 
Had an incident with a doctor removing a wasp from my ear that messed up my left. I have never worn ear protection. My right ear took the brunt of that from me turning my head.

Or the people that talk to me when I am winded... Thats a safety issue.

"What are you doing tomorrow?"

"Gonna----- catch breath---- and--- slap you..."


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## GilksTreeFelling (Dec 16, 2019)

Boots, saw pants, m-pact gloves, safety glasses and protos helmet with shield and ear muffs. That's what I wear and so do those that work for me.


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## Section VIII (Dec 19, 2019)

Steel-toed boots, chaps (mostly for the added padding for the knees), m-pact or leather gloves. Only wear a helmet when in thick brush.

Have never worn hearing protection. My hearing is so bad, the doctor was relieved when he found out that I wasn't an air traffic controller or police officer.


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## Haironyourchest (Dec 19, 2019)

Really expensive pants, steel and kevlar boots, Husqvarna helmet system with chipper earmuffs. Whistle, phone, and a "Celox" anti-hemmorragic bandage.

Plastic hard hats are engineered to absorb impact by flexing. A hard hat with a brim should absorb the impact of a kicked-back bar (with the chain stopped) before it smashes the face and forehead. Like a crumple zone in a car.

Mesh visor is essential. While it doesn't stop fine dust, it saves the eyes from branches and chips. A stick in the eye can wipe out several days profit, or worse.


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## Asawbum (Jan 8, 2020)

Bowl of breakfast greens.

Tin cap, ear plugs loose falling, deep for limbing/bucking, prescription glasses, screws on the soles of my boots and I wear madson insert jeans. I don't think I will ever cut my legs but my inserts save me from all the other crashes and bashes in the woods.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jan 13, 2020)

Seriously the toe cut off myth again? I thought that went with being thrown out of a car in a accident was better than being belted in and hot butter was good for burns. 

Tree works dangerous enough, why not look after your guys and get them the right gear? Accidents happen and gear can be all the difference 

Helmet, hi vis shirts, chainsaw trousers or chaps, capped boots, safety glasses. And I like my 3120xp's, I dont play tennis


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## Capitalist (Jan 13, 2020)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Seriously the toe cut off myth again? I thought that went with being thrown out of a car in a accident was better than being belted in and hot butter was good for burns.
> 
> Tree works dangerous enough, why not look after your guys and get them the right gear? Accidents happen and gear can be all the difference
> 
> Helmet, hi vis shirts, chainsaw trousers or chaps, capped boots, safety glasses. And I like my 3120xp's, I dont play tennis


Myth that is fact.
How much weight has to land on your toes wrapped in leather, from a blunt object, to cut it off?

Now how muc weight does it take to compress a steel to into your foot (which is sharp) and remove your toes? About 5k lbs.

Well, thats about the weight of my loaded tires. Wheras the odds off you getting hit with a piece of wood big enough to amputate or crush toes to the point of no return are much slimmer.


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2020)

Capitalist said:


> Myth that is fact.


Total Bullsh*t.

If enough force (weight) is applied to crush the steel toe of a boot, your toes in a standard leather boot would be jelly. 

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF STEEL TOED BOOTS!

(Stay away from the edges of our flat earth).

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2020)

Oh: I see we are back to Page 1 myths.

Here is an experiment/ demonstration A.S. members can try or consider if they are bored:

Take a package of (non-frozen) hot dogs. Place several in an old, steel toed boot, and several in an old plain, leather work boots (hit Goodwill or a garage sale). Drive over both with your '5k lbs' tires, and get back to us with some photos*.

*Hint: put the hot dogs in a zip-lock bag if you like the plain leather boots and want to keep them. 

Philbert


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## Capitalist (Jan 14, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Total Bullsh*t.
> 
> If enough force (weight) is applied to crush the steel toe of a boot, your toes in a standard leather boot would be jelly.
> 
> ...


Depends and no. 
Might or might not sever the primary nerves which are very flexible. 

So according to you I can cut your finger off witha machete or a hammer, with the same amount of force.


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## Capitalist (Jan 14, 2020)

Once the open side is turned down your toes have a few hundred lb force threshold of being severed. 

My grandfather had a semi run ove his foot fully loaded. It messed his foot up bad. Totally crshed it and he made a full recovery. 

Now if he had worn steel toes, by the time he got to that piss ass hospital in bfe, they would not have been able to be reattached.


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## David Gruber (Jan 14, 2020)

My opinion on steel toed shoes...If that toe gets hit with enough force to crush it your toes would be toast without them. Now drop a 50lbs round on your standard workboot toe verses a safety toe. Most likely not going lose any toes but the guy with safety toes will be back to work sooner. The guy without safety toes will be out for a while with a few broke toes.


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## Philbert (Jan 14, 2020)

Capitalist said:


> Depends and no.
> Might or might not sever the primary nerves which are very flexible.So according to you I can cut your finger off with a machete or a hammer, with the same amount of force.





Capitalist said:


> Once the open side is turned down your toes have a few hundred lb force threshold of being severed.


It's clear that you enjoy being argumentative and provocative, but that does not make you any more correct than repeating a falsehood in an echo chamber, so I will likely drop off after this post.

You seem obsessed with one edge of a metal, cup-shaped protective device. If that scares you so much, consider the plastic / composite versions. Or metatarsal guards.


Your grandfather's anecdote, and the opinion of a mis-informed, former employer don't stack up well to researched engineering standards in dozens of countries, and hundreds of millions (billions?) of protected feet in workplaces.

Philbert


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## grizz55chev (Jan 14, 2020)

The first word in PPE is personal, it’s a matter of preference. I’ve only recently started wearing ear protection to save what hearing I have, always worn glasses, gloves most of the time. Hard hat when falling, good work boots with ankle support are also recommended. I will not criticize anyone’s preferences, but if I see someone being down right unsafe around me, and I’m in charge, I’ll let them know , and either ask them to stop or leave the job. To me, the most unsafe practice is to keep going when you are exhausted, that’s when most accidents happen! If you feel this happening or have a close call, either stop and catch some rest or quit an come back when rested.


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## Blue Oaks (Jan 14, 2020)

Uhhh, the "Personal" in PPE refers to protective equipment for the person, as opposed to say environmental equipment, not as if it were optional based on personal beliefs.


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## grizz55chev (Jan 14, 2020)

Blue Oaks said:


> Uhhh, the "Personal" in PPE refers to protective equipment for the person, as opposed to say environmental equipment, not as if it were optional based on personal beliefs.


Not about beliefs, but about preference.


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## Capitalist (Jan 14, 2020)

Philbert said:


> It's clear that you enjoy being argumentative and provocative, but that does not make you any more correct than repeating a falsehood in an echo chamber, so I will likely drop off after this post.
> 
> You seem obsessed with one edge of a metal, cup-shaped protective device. If that scares you so much, consider the plastic / composite versions. Or metatarsal guards.
> View attachment 788412
> ...


I know my game. 
I wont wear them. 
If you are getting upset you could just duck out. It seems to be a trend that you get upset in discussions when people dont agree with you.


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## Zale (Jan 15, 2020)

Capitalist said:


> I know my game.
> I wont wear them.
> If you are getting upset you could just duck out. It seems to be a trend that you get upset in discussions when people dont agree with you.


I wouldn't worry about the PPE. The steroids are going to take you down sooner.


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## Capitalist (Jan 15, 2020)

Zale said:


> I wouldn't worry about the PPE. The steroids are going to take you down sooner.


Very true


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## derwoodii (Jan 20, 2020)

my 1st 20 years working climbing tree life i wore shorts work boots ear muffs and that about it.. The next 20 years been more PPE from sun protection clothing eyes glasses, ear plugs chain saw pants or chaps gloves all the gear. 

I not harmed or hurt myself much more than nicks cut bumps bruises.

I often suggested that climbing and chain sawing trees butt naked you'd be far more safer as mind focused concentration high and yet when you wear chaps and boots ppe you tend to get sloppy careless relying on the PPE to back you up..

Dunno its a balance thing,, some circumstances deem more ppe needed to cover and protect the unpredictable and some allow a bit of freedom flare and fun.. Just today i choose twice not to put on chaps as simple cut clean up then one task a fallen snagged tricky log i put on helmet chaps the full kits and worked it slow systematically let the crew know each dismantle move and the considered outcome.. 


please dont go sawing naked eh its just a hypothetical ok


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## John Lyngdal (Jan 20, 2020)

I've started wearing a Stihl helmet/ear muff/screen face shield unit after decades of only using hearing protection when sawing. I was surprised at the coolness in hot conditions and overall comfort.
If you spend much time with a line trimmer in grass, the screen face shield is even better than safety glasses as there aren't lenses for the slung grass to stick to.


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## Rjpoog1989 (Jan 20, 2020)

I wear a helmet when falling trees or cutting stuff above me. Always wear some form of glasses. Sometimes I wear ear protection. I avoid chaps like the plague. Sometimes I wear boots, I do have steel toes.

I’ve also been known to buck up some firewood at the house wearing gym shorts and flip flops...


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## Erwin (Jan 23, 2020)

Capitalist said:


> I dont expect or recommend anyone do things my way.
> I will continue to do them my way though.
> I have figured out what works for me.
> 
> My biggest issue is glasses. I need them but they all fog and get sweat covered and glare. I get tired of digging sawdust outta my eyes.




You sound like the old me in some way. I used to only wear bandana on my head to wick up the sweat, A lot of it. That was why I never ever wear safety glasses while climbing. I tried all kinds of eye protective wear and even the one made of fine wire mesh instead of plastic. Everything changed since I first tried my KASK helmet with flip-up visor. I was first skeptical about wearing it in summer, but now I’m a changed man! I wear it from 10 degree in the winter to 95 degree with 80% humidity in the st. louis summer. I wear it from the moment I step out of the truck till back in at the end of the day. I just love it. It fit on my head very well and I barely ever notice it’s there. Another reason is that it gives me a more professional look in front of my clients and their neighbors. TRY IT AND I BET THAT YOU WILL LOVE IT TOO. Erwin


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## Capitalist (Jan 24, 2020)

Erwin said:


> You sound like the old me in some way. I used to only wear bandana on my head to wick up the sweat, A lot of it. That was why I never ever wear safety glasses while climbing. I tried all kinds of eye protective wear and even the one made of fine wire mesh instead of plastic. Everything changed since I first tried my KASK helmet with flip-up visor. I was first skeptical about wearing it in summer, but now I’m a changed man! I wear it from 10 degree in the winter to 95 degree with 80% humidity in the st. louis summer. I wear it from the moment I step out of the truck till back in at the end of the day. I just love it. It fit on my head very well and I barely ever notice it’s there. Another reason is that it gives me a more professional look in front of my clients and their neighbors. TRY IT AND I BET THAT YOU WILL LOVE IT TOO. Erwin


Thx I will check one out


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