# Stihl 026 Stock / Ported Comparison Pics



## Mastermind (Nov 13, 2011)

I get a lot of guys asking questions about port work. I'm building a really nice 026 for a member and thought I would show a stock jug side by side with a ported jug. This would be a great thread to throw out any questions about porting. If I can't answer them there are many guys here that can. 

In this shot you can see that I didn't really enlarge the intake much, just smoothed out the casting lines and blended it out.







I just take the lip out of the lower transfers on a mild work saw. I don't find it necessary to open them any more on a work saw of this size. 






I spend much more time on the upper transfers than the lowers. Here I've widened these as much as possible, and raised them a few degrees as well.






The exhaust port gets quite a bit of work. I widen the port, and increase the outlet size as well. On this saw the port is already fairly high (164° duration - 98° from TDC) so it's not been raised at all. 






The shiny spot in the center of the exhaust port is the plating, like I mentioned above this port is at the stock height, only widened.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 13, 2011)

I increased the intake port timing 10° from 144° duration. It would require lowering the intake port about 3/32". Rather than making the port that much larger I cut some length from the piston skirt. 











If there's any interest I'll add some more to this thread. I would love to see some other guys post some pics here as well.


----------



## pioneerguy600 (Nov 13, 2011)

Good work and a good thread Randy.


----------



## booger1286 (Nov 13, 2011)

This is just what i needed to see , it clears up alot.


----------



## FATGUY (Nov 13, 2011)

subscribed.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Nov 14, 2011)

very informative. thanks for posting this Randy! this couldn't come at a better time for me as i am wanting to get some work done to an 026. i read on another thread where some fellas felt it was best to leave the lower transfers alone because they thought rather firmly that it helped keep the torque stronger through the rpm range. this of course was for a true work saw. i noticed you did some moderate work to the lower transfers here so i was wondering if i could get your thoughts on the matter. please don't think i'm calling you out or anything, i'm just a FNG trying to learn.


----------



## Log Hogger (Nov 14, 2011)

Great thread, I like the before and after pics, they tell the story well.

Mastermind, how does one port for torque versus rpms? I understand the need to keep the exhaust lower for torque, but how are the transfers and intake ports adjusted for torque?


----------



## Stihlman441 (Nov 14, 2011)

Rep sent, good job.


----------



## Nardoo (Nov 14, 2011)

Nice work Randy. And very generous of you to share.

Al.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> very informative. thanks for posting this Randy! this couldn't come at a better time for me as i am wanting to get some work done to an 026. i read on another thread where some fellas felt it was best to leave the lower transfers alone because they thought rather firmly that it helped keep the torque stronger through the rpm range. this of course was for a true work saw. i noticed you did some moderate work to the lower transfers here so i was wondering if i could get your thoughts on the matter. please don't think i'm calling you out or anything, i'm just a FNG trying to learn.



I just removed the lip from the bottom of the port, it has to help with flow. 



Log Hogger said:


> Great thread, I like the before and after pics, they tell the story well.
> 
> Mastermind, how does one port for torque versus rpms? I understand the need to keep the exhaust lower for torque, but how are the transfers and intake ports adjusted for torque?



I've found that raising the upper transfers a few degrees with other mods allows an engine to hold the rpm in the cut. The higher the exhaust and transfers go in relation to each other the high the rpm seems to go. I'm sure that there's a point when it starts going the other way though. Too much exhaust without the compression to support it and an engine is just a screamer that has no useable torque.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 14, 2011)

I tried to reply this morning, got my pictures loaded and hit submit to see '' sorry the server is to busy at this time.'':msp_sad:

I was just gonna add a few pictures to go with Randy's since he said we could add some . I don't have a stock jug to compare too, but Ill give what I got.

Heres a ms460 Ive been working on, coming together slowly but surely. You can see where I unshrouded the lowers, and blended back into the existing port. The uppers were raised to 118ATDC, and only widened toward the intake a little, due to the piston ring end pins. 









Exhaust port was raised to 100, from 101. If this saw was destined for a popup, id probably raised the exhaust a little more. Polished it up good too. Shaved .010 off the base for a .021 squish with the OEM base gasket.





The intake was lowered to 80, most of it was trimmed off the skirt. Looks like I need to take some more pictures :msp_sad:. I may take some more before I get it all put back together and start a thread on it if anyone is interested. ??


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

Here's a little trick I've picked up for the 026. The squish band hits just the edge of the piston when the base gasket is ditched, this allows it to clear, and raises compression a BUNCH.  











This shot shows how much the muffler must be milled out to fit now.






This is a clean saw. DSS sent this saw here in exchange for some port work.

Did I mention I do port work for trades???


----------



## cowroy (Nov 14, 2011)

I just so happen to have an ole 026 and this is an great comparison. Awesome work Randy!


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

Matching the exhaust gasket.
















I've used the largest fuel line and filter that would fit here. Can't have it staving for fuel. 












Thanks for the pics Durand. Damn fine looking work. I would love to see more.


----------



## rburg (Nov 14, 2011)

For those of us who understand little about porting, the side by side pictures really help.


----------



## rickyrooster (Nov 14, 2011)

*026*

I see Randy the Mastermind has met another saw. Nice looking work and great pictures. Keep them comming. Rick!


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

A shameless plug with the card. 






A new starter pawl never hurts a thing.











This I mention that this was a clean saw???

I hope you enjoy it Wes.


----------



## pops21 (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks for the pics. Its been a good while since anyone has posted up there porting work.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods (Nov 14, 2011)

Outstanding.

And the carb is a ????


----------



## kevin j (Nov 14, 2011)

How do you do the transfer work? Will a dremel fit, or do you have a 90 degree one. 
Perfect timing, I am doing an 026 now as a gift and will port it. I have never messed with transfers before. 
and if all works well, I will do my old 026 the same way later.


----------



## wyk (Nov 14, 2011)

Wow, you weren't kidding about the clean part. Nice work! You gonna send me an image of the PSI?


----------



## pops21 (Nov 14, 2011)

kevin j said:


> How do you do the transfer work? Will a dremel fit, or do you have a 90 degree one.
> Perfect timing, I am doing an 026 now as a gift and will port it. I have never messed with transfers before.
> and if all works well, I will do my old 026 the same way later.




Transfers can be done with a dremel but boy oh boy is it HARD to make perfect. 90 degree tool is where its at for transfer work.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

I have some angled handpieces but use a cutoff wheel in the 026 for the uppers, I do then blend it out smooth with a rt angle handpiece and a burr.

Sorry Wes, this saw killed my tester a bit ago. It would be at 190psi or so though.


----------



## kevin j (Nov 14, 2011)

forgot to ask: what fuel line & filter fit. Have to change them anyway, may as well upsize. 
and +1 on the 'what carb mods' question. 

Might be time to look into the 90d tools.


----------



## Log Hogger (Nov 14, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> I've found that raising the upper transfers a few degrees with other mods allows an engine to hold the rpm in the cut. The higher the exhaust and transfers go in relation to each other the high the rpm seems to go. I'm sure that there's a point when it starts going the other way though. Too much exhaust without the compression to support it and an engine is just a screamer that has no useable torque.



So would it be correct to say that maintaining the same blowdown by raising the exhaust and transfers together will produce gains in both rpms and torque, up until the point that the height of the exhaust lowers compression too much?


----------



## DSS (Nov 14, 2011)

I knew I shoulda kept that damn saw....:biggrin:


----------



## parrisw (Nov 14, 2011)

Log Hogger said:


> So would it be correct to say that maintaining the same blowdown by raising the exhaust and transfers together will produce gains in both rpms and torque, up until the point that the height of the exhaust lowers compression too much?



Sorta ya. Just don't go raising things too high. The transfer timing can have a fine line, its not hard to go too far. 

you know you raised the ex too high when you reach the squish band.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## woodyman (Nov 14, 2011)

Very nice reading,thanks.I have a free straight gassed 026 on my bench which I will be porting in a month or so.I will just be widening the intake and exhaust ports,opening up the muffler and no base gasket.I do all my porting now with hand files and wet/dry sandpaper.The first saw I ported was an 026 heres a pic of the ports(don't laugh too hard).


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

kevin j said:


> forgot to ask: what fuel line & filter fit. Have to change them anyway, may as well upsize.
> and +1 on the 'what carb mods' question.
> 
> Might be time to look into the 90d tools.



This is a upgrade line for the 026. I used the one for the MS260, Stihl part #1121 358 7700 
MS660 fuel pickup body, # 0000 350 3504

I'm waiting on a carb....but it will be a wt194 with thinned throttle shafts and polished bore. I hate the see these saws butchered up and the 044 carb swap, while a powerful way to go ends up making the saw hard to use daily. I would love to find a carb that swaps well and uses a filter in the box properly. So far I've not.




Log Hogger said:


> So would it be correct to say that maintaining the same blowdown by raising the exhaust and transfers together will produce gains in both rpms and torque, up until the point that the height of the exhaust lowers compression too much?



The transfers are where you can ruin a saw or make one that is great. The exhaust on this saw is at 98°...that's pretty high for a stock jug, and will allow this engine to rev high. I raised the transfer port on an angle (higher on the intake side) to 116° At one time I would have never tried to go so high. For one thing.....since they are angled they open progressively, not all the way open at 116°. We have Brad Snelling to thank for sharing this one with me. 

This will not work on every engine BTW, modding a two-stroke is not a one size fits all thing in the least. This saw has much more compression than a stock saw, plus all the other mods. I know the 026 fairly well, I've done 8 or 10 and am starting to get an idea what they like.

The intake timing is at 78°, in my experience with the 026 any more and you start losing case pressure, and just causes more spit back......at least in the configuration. Remember, I've never played with full blown race saws, and can't speak to that.





DSS said:


> I knew I shoulda kept that damn saw....:biggrin:



I have an 038 Magnum under my bench with DDS written on over it my brother. 



parrisw said:


> Sorta ya. Just don't go raising things too high. The transfer timing can have a fine line, its not hard to go too far.
> 
> you know you raised the ex too high when you reach the squish band.:hmm3grin2orange:



Well said. I've got a box of jugs that I went too far on. It ain't cheap to learn this stuff.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

woodyman said:


> Very nice reading,thanks.I have a free straight gassed 026 on my bench which I will be porting in a month or so.I will just be widening the intake and exhaust ports,opening up the muffler and no base gasket.I do all my porting now with hand files and wet/dry sandpaper.The first saw I ported was an 026 heres a pic of the ports(don't laugh too hard).



No laughing here. That looks great. I can appreciate the work it takes to do all that by hand. 

I add more and better tools every chance I get. I bought a Foredom knock off from Harbor Freight a few days ago. It's a 1/4 HP with a foot pedal. When I first spun it the thing sounded like crap. Like all their stuff it needed some love......I took it all apart, cleaned and lubed it. It works great now. For 60.00 shipped, it's way better than a flex shaft Dremel tool.


----------



## MechanicMatt (Nov 14, 2011)

8-10 026's hmm???? Randy, you do some nice work. Looking at a engine as a air pump, its no wonder your saws run so well. You make that air travel very smooth my friend. Move more air in and more out. Younger guys at work look at me like Im nuts when I tell them a engine is just a pump, and needs air fuel spark. Your work is top notch, "MasterMind".


----------



## stihl038x2 (Nov 14, 2011)

On the carb question, has anyone tried boring one out ?

Steve


----------



## parrisw (Nov 14, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> No laughing here. That looks great. I can appreciate the work it takes to do all that by hand.
> 
> I add more and better tools every chance I get. I bought a Foredom knock off from Harbor Freight a few days ago. It's a 1/4 HP with a foot pedal. When I first spun it the thing sounded like crap. Like all their stuff it needed some love......I took it all apart, cleaned and lubed it. It works great now. For 60.00 shipped, it's way better than a flex shaft Dremel tool.



I love tools, that's a whole different disorder which I wont talk about now. I bought a used Foredom off ebay and am very happy with it. I wish I had the right angle tool for it.


----------



## parrisw (Nov 14, 2011)

stihl038x2 said:


> On the carb question, has anyone tried boring one out ?
> 
> Steve



Yes many do just that.


----------



## stihl038x2 (Nov 14, 2011)

parrisw said:


> Yes many do just that.



Do share !! 

Steve


----------



## w8ye (Nov 14, 2011)

The carbs on a 026 are 13.49mm. That's as big as a WT series carb comes. There's just nothing left to bore and still have a venturi?

You would need a HDA series? or a carb from a 044 or something?


----------



## parrisw (Nov 14, 2011)

stihl038x2 said:


> Do share !!
> 
> Steve



I'm talking in general, don't know how much room there is on the 026 carb, its likely you could take the venturi out a little. Some people just bore the venturi and some do the whole carb and make new butterfly's, I myself have not bored a carb yet, been wanting to.


----------



## rms61moparman (Nov 14, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> No laughing here. That looks great. I can appreciate the work it takes to do all that by hand.
> 
> I add more and better tools every chance I get. I bought a Foredom knock off from Harbor Freight a few days ago. It's a 1/4 HP with a foot pedal. When I first spun it the thing sounded like crap. Like all their stuff it needed some love......I took it all apart, cleaned and lubed it. It works great now. For 60.00 shipped, it's way better than a flex shaft Dremel tool.





That is exactly what I have.
I got mine several years ago when they were on sale for $35.00.
Still runs great.


Mike


----------



## cowroy (Nov 14, 2011)

Randy, if you clean up the inside of the bore what do use to do so? The cylinder I am workin on doesn't have any transfer so no need for acid I just want to make it look like it has never had a piston in it without honing it. If it doesn't matter then I won't worry bout it. Thanks!


----------



## parrisw (Nov 14, 2011)

cowroy said:


> Randy, if you clean up the inside of the bore what do use to do so? The cylinder I am workin on doesn't have any transfer so no need for acid I just want to make it look like it has never had a piston in it without honing it. If it doesn't matter then I won't worry bout it. Thanks!



If its clean then don't worry about it.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2011)

cowroy said:


> Randy, if you clean up the inside of the bore what do use to do so? The cylinder I am workin on doesn't have any transfer so no need for acid I just want to make it look like it has never had a piston in it without honing it. If it doesn't matter then I won't worry bout it. Thanks!



I like to scuff the bore with 320 grit sandpaper. I like to think it helps seal the rings faster.


----------



## cowroy (Nov 14, 2011)

parrisw said:


> If its clean then don't worry about it.



Thats what I needed to know! I wasn't sure if it made a difference or not where the old ring travel area was.


----------



## 50blues (Nov 14, 2011)

Very nice work, and what I like to see. I have a straight gased 026 under the bench that I will hopefully be working on soon. This gives me a good idea on how to start.

thanks


----------



## parrisw (Nov 15, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> I like to scuff the bore with 320 grit sandpaper. I like to think it helps seal the rings faster.



Well there is your problem. You were thinking. :msp_w00t:

I've hones many cylinders actually. All the saws I've done, the rings have seated, honed or not.


----------



## deezelman (Nov 15, 2011)

awsome thread. keep up the good work and thanks for the free info.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 15, 2011)

I know I've beat this thread enough, but I have'nt been takein allot of pics lately. I'll start doin more build threads now since I got High speed Innernet.:hmm3grin2orange:
<A HREF=http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/176046.htm> MS290</A>


----------



## Tree Wacker (Nov 15, 2011)

i'm not trying to Hijack your thread mastermind but can you all tell me what kind of tools you useing to port these saws with? or is it a secret or something if it is i understand if you can't tell secrets :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 15, 2011)

I don't have any secrets. What I'm doing to these saws is nothing new or different. I would love to think I'm doing something special, but it's all been done before. 

The small tools are dental drills. They use 3/32 burrs with a flat spot on one side. The one on the right is gear reduced and turns slow with a lot of torque.







Doing a 346XP without a angled handpiece is tough, not impossible, but tough. These ports have been widen and raised.


----------



## Sprintcar (Nov 15, 2011)

Once again "Great work from the hills of Tennessee".

Yeah Chris you should have kept that dam saw. Now you will never hear the end of it. 

Great thread Randy, get that oiler fixed on the Homelite?


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 15, 2011)

Sprintcar said:


> Once again "Great work from the hills of Tennessee".
> 
> Yeah Chris you should have kept that dam saw. Now you will never hear the end of it.
> 
> Great thread Randy, get that oiler fixed on the Homelite?



Yeah Jerry, we found that the EZ was missing a check ball in the pump. It works great now. Jon is going to put the saw you sent back together.....just a matter of finding some time.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 15, 2011)

Where you get the burrs at Randy? How bout the dental grinder? Will the dental grinder take the burrs that the dremel uses? Same shaft size?


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 15, 2011)

Durand, the dental handpieces came from ebay. I bought a big pile of drills and parts that are fairly old.....I think. They take 3/32 shank burrs with a flat spot on one side, so no they aren't the same as dremel bits. I get most of my burrs on ebay as well. The 3/32 ones I cut off and grind a flat on for the dental tools. I chuck the drive end of the dental piece in the chuck of my regular handpiece to drive them. I'm sending a couple dental drills to Wiggs in hopes that he can come up with an elegant adapter for them.


----------



## Smokepole (Nov 15, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> Here's a little trick I've picked up for the 026. The squish band hits just the edge of the piston when the base gasket is ditched, this allows it to clear, and raises compression a BUNCH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



do you dress the ring on the dome after you remachine the squish ? Looks like it would be a hot spot potentially leading to detonation.
this takes me back to sled dragging days. PS: I love the sound of a pencil grinder in the morning


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Nov 15, 2011)

wow. dental tools, now thats thinkin!


----------



## MechanicMatt (Nov 15, 2011)

Randy what do you do with open port transfers. All you other "porters" can answer too. I saw what stumpy did on that 290, he kinda massaged the upper area. Have you guys ever done anything really wild with them? Really curious, I know they will never run like a closed port but it seems like Im never gonna find a closed port setup for my lil husky so I was wondering what I can do to a aftermarket 55 cylinder to wake it up.


----------



## Tree Wacker (Nov 15, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> Durand, the dental handpieces came from ebay. I bought a big pile of drills and parts that are fairly old.....I think. They take 3/32 shank burrs with a flat spot on one side, so no they aren't the same as dremel bits. I get most of my burrs on ebay as well. The 3/32 ones I cut off and grind a flat on for the dental tools. I chuck the drive end of the dental piece in the chuck of my regular handpiece to drive them. I'm sending a couple dental drills to Wiggs in hopes that he can come up with an elegant adapter for them.



what do you use to power them so that you can port saws? i been looking on e-bay and i found a lot of them but they don't come with a motor or anything.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 15, 2011)

Smokepole said:


> do you dress the ring on the dome after you remachine the squish ? Looks like it would be a hot spot potentially leading to detonation.
> this takes me back to sled dragging days. PS: I love the sound of a pencil grinder in the morning



I've cut a 35° angle on the dome edge. It doesn't really show in the pics though. I also use a fine file to add a little chamfer to the edge of the piston while it's turning in the lathe. 



MechanicMatt said:


> Randy what do you do with open port transfers. All you other "porters" can answer too. I saw what stumpy did on that 290, he kinda massaged the upper area. Have you guys ever done anything really wild with them? Really curious, I know they will never run like a closed port but it seems like Im never gonna find a closed port setup for my lil husky so I was wondering what I can do to a aftermarket 55 cylinder to wake it up.



I'll be doing a open port 55 soon. I'm thinking auxiliary transfer ports.  



Tree Wacker said:


> what do you use to power them so that you can port saws? i been looking on e-bay and i found a lot of them but they don't come with a motor or anything.



I chuck them in a handpiece.


----------



## parrisw (Nov 16, 2011)

Tree Wacker said:


> what do you use to power them so that you can port saws? i been looking on e-bay and i found a lot of them but they don't come with a motor or anything.



This is what I have. Mine was a little more but it came with a straight piece as well. You can adjust the speed with the control unit and its got a foot pedal for turning it on and off which is great.

Dental Lab MARATHON Handpiece Contra Angle Nose Cone US | eBay


----------



## Tree Wacker (Nov 16, 2011)

parrisw said:


> This is what I have. Mine was a little more but it came with a straight piece as well. You can adjust the speed with the control unit and its got a foot pedal for turning it on and off which is great.
> 
> Dental Lab MARATHON Handpiece Contra Angle Nose Cone US | eBay



i might have to save the ad and get me one of them when i get into porting saws for fun and stuff LOL.


----------



## CWME (Dec 1, 2011)

How much are you turning off the top of the piston? Would that "trick" hold true for a newer 260 as well?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 1, 2011)

CWME said:


> How much are you turning off the top of the piston? Would that "trick" hold true for a newer 260 as well?



Yes Sir. It seems to work well. As for how much to remove....it depends on the amount of squish you want when finished and how much interference you have after the gasket is removed.


----------



## CWME (Dec 1, 2011)

That makes sense, thanks for sharing! The 260 is going under the knife once I figure out how to video some before cuts on my camera. Want to know if any gains were had with my work. Got to clean off the lathe and sharpen a bit.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 1, 2011)

CWME said:


> That makes sense, thanks for sharing! The 260 is going under the knife once I figure out how to video some before cuts on my camera. Want to know if any gains were had with my work. Got to clean off the lathe and sharpen a bit.



The 026/260 has a domed piston. So a conventional popup is out of the question. When you get it apart take a good look at the squish band and then you will see the spot that hits first. After getting a good look it will all make perfect sense.


----------



## kevin j (Dec 4, 2011)

what is the minimum side overlap of piston skirt beyond the port edge, for intake and exhaust?

I don't know the piston brand, and was not planning on replacing it, but I think the skirts are narrower than would be needed to do the ports in the pictures. With stock ports, I have about 0.100 on each side past the intake port, about .100 on one side of exhaust, and .130 on the other side of exhaust. I can get some on the one side, but have thought that .100 was about minimum overlap to still have good sealing. Not so? or are your skirts wider? Left the paper with skirt dimensions at the garage.

kcj


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 4, 2011)

kevin j said:


> what is the minimum side overlap of piston skirt beyond the port edge, for intake and exhaust?
> 
> I don't know the piston brand, and was not planning on replacing it, but I think the skirts are narrower than would be needed to do the ports in the pictures. With stock ports, I have about 0.100 on each side past the intake port, about .100 on one side of exhaust, and .130 on the other side of exhaust. I can get some on the one side, but have thought that .100 was about minimum overlap to still have good sealing. Not so? or are your skirts wider? Left the paper with skirt dimensions at the garage.
> 
> kcj




As little as .030 will seal fine. This saw was built with either a stock piston or a Meteor...I can't remember which.


----------



## CWME (Dec 6, 2011)

Measured the squish with base gasket at .027-.028 and without base gasket at .016-.017. Getting readings from three points on the squish band.
Compression went from 160 cold to 192 cold with the base gasket being the only change. 

Now when I seal it up I should gain a little squish back leaving me at an estimate of .018-.019.

What am I missing?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 6, 2011)

CWME said:


> Measured the squish with base gasket at .027-.028 and without base gasket at .016-.017. Getting readings from three points on the squish band.
> Compression went from 160 cold to 192 cold with the base gasket being the only change.
> 
> Now when I seal it up I should gain a little squish back leaving me at an estimate of .018-.019.
> ...



Are you sure that you are measuring the squish at the very edge of the bore???

I've not seen a 026 that can be ran without a base gasket. The ms260 may be different but the couple I've built were head slappers without a gasket...


----------



## CWME (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes Sir. I will run some more samples through and grab a picture of them. The PSI jump says that it has to be pretty tight so I don't doubt you at all.


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for sharing the information:msp_thumbup:. The side by side pics really help.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods (Dec 6, 2011)

The stock base gasket on an 026 is .5mm, so....

Not sure about only measuring squish at three spots. May want to double that, or at least use even numbered locations at opposite sides of the bore for symmetrical comparison of results.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with it.



Poge


----------



## CWME (Dec 6, 2011)

View attachment 210284
View attachment 210285
View attachment 210286
View attachment 210287















Smallest one I got was parallel with the rist pin which is shown in the calipers at .015. Not sure if you can see it in the shots but the solder has a little fold where it was squeezed down the side of the piston a bit. I should mention that this is a newer MS260, bought it new last Jan.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 6, 2011)

That little area that is smashed on the solder is the relief cut I make on the piston. Normally that area hits and stops the engine from turning. The newer 260 might be a little different animal.


----------



## CWME (Dec 6, 2011)

Well, I guess I will seal it up and make some test cuts to see where it is at. Go from there with the porting portion of this build. Thanks for the consult on my specific situation. Hope I didn't derail your thread too far.


----------



## parrisw (Dec 6, 2011)

.015-.016 Is too tight IMHO for a work saw. Stick with .020, the compression gain from .020 to .016 is not worth it.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 6, 2011)

CWME said:


> Well, I guess I will seal it up and make some test cuts to see where it is at. Go from there with the porting portion of this build. Thanks for the consult on my specific situation. Hope I didn't derail your thread too far.



This thread and any other thread I start is hopefully a place to have a discussion about the things we all want to learn about. Please derail.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 6, 2011)

parrisw said:


> .015-.016 Is too tight IMHO for a work saw. Stick with .020, the compression gain from .020 to .016 is not worth it.



I agree. .020 is what I shoot for. If I end up at .018 I don't worry about though. Less than that is spooky to me.


----------



## CWME (Dec 7, 2011)

I have to pull the piston to clean it up anyway. I can turn the popup when it comes out so it won't stay that tight. Really is suprising how much PSI was gained by removing the base gasket. I was NOT expecting a 32 PSI jump. But I am a newbie


----------



## CWME (Dec 7, 2011)

Shaved off 3.02 seconds on my test cuts with just the base gasket removed, same log


----------



## Somesawguy (Dec 7, 2011)

CWME said:


> Shaved off 3.02 seconds on my test cuts with just the base gasket removed, same log



Nice! I wonder if I can do the same with my 024. It needs a little help in the power department. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Jan 27, 2012)

bump for a really great thread. i love learnin' about this stuff.


----------



## powerking (Jan 27, 2012)

ya see what this thread did to me......Now I'm gonna take my 028 apart again and do some more porting! I secretly love it!


----------



## 24d (Jan 27, 2012)

Great thread! What chain do you recommend with this saw?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 27, 2012)

24d said:


> Great thread! What chain do you recommend with this saw?



I like a 3/8 chain on everything. Of course I hop up everything I own too.


----------



## jropo (Jan 27, 2012)

Great Thread!!!
I don't know how many times I past this one over because it was not what I was working on! :bang:
Thanks for the bump!!


----------



## Sundown (Feb 11, 2012)

When checking squish on a stock 260 pro, can you go through the spark plug hole or exhaust? Or do you have to remove the cylinder to get the correct reading?


----------



## pioneerguy600 (Feb 11, 2012)

Sundown said:


> When checking squish on a stock 260 pro, can you go through the spark plug hole or exhaust? Or do you have to remove the cylinder to get the correct reading?



Through the sparkplug hole, place the solder out to the outer cylinder wall parrell to the wrist pin.


----------



## Sundown (Feb 11, 2012)

The dome piston won' affect the reading doing it that way? Looks like a tapered smash for about a 1/2" then towards the very end about the last 1/8" it gets smaller, is that the squish band to be measured? Long time member but new to this.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2012)

Sundown said:


> The dome piston won' affect the reading doing it that way? Looks like a tapered smash for about a 1/2" then towards the very end about the last 1/8" it gets smaller, is that the squish band to be measured? Long time member but new to this.



The 026/260 has a lip right at the edge of the bore. That's the last 1/8" you're seeing. That is the measurement you want as well.


----------



## Sundown (Feb 11, 2012)

Well so much for just removing the base gasket then. Time to buy a lathe...


----------



## tlandrum (Feb 11, 2012)

much cheaper to send it out for milling than to buy a mill/lathe


----------



## Sundown (Feb 11, 2012)

I know Terry, but the money I would save in shipping could add up and pay for a lathe, might take awhile. But then I could use the name Full Throttle Saws Inc... Lol. By the way I got something headed my way to turn around and head your way real soon. Maybe I should have it sent to you first on its way here, Unsure if it needs to be run awhile first though have read different opinions on that...


----------



## tlandrum (Feb 11, 2012)

doesnt make any difference. once i go into it it will have to reseal and seat again. personally id rather the saw not be run that way it breaks in the fresh rings along with the port work but thats just me.


----------



## stihl038x2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Subbed in............ got one on the go right now :msp_thumbup:

Steve


----------



## Stihlman441 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hi there Randy
Would it be possible to turn a tapper from the outer edge of the piston inwards,so to have no step which would help with flow.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 5, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> Hi there Randy
> Would it be possible to turn a tapper from the outer edge of the piston inwards,so to have no step which would help with flow.



Yes it would. I doubt it would yield as much compression though. 

I've evolved to cutting the squish band on these saws now. With the right shape on a cutter the step can be cut out nicely.


----------



## Stihlofadeal64 (Mar 5, 2012)

Bump - keep them post's and specs coming! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihl038x2 (Mar 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yes it would. I doubt it would yield as much compression though.
> 
> I've evolved to cutting the squish band on these saws now. *With the right shape on a cutter the step can be cut out nicely*.



Are you just turning a "straight taper" on the squish band up to the combustion chamber ?? What angle , 2* ??
What carb work are you doing on the WT194 other than a polish & thinning ? Venturi boring ? re-jet ??

Steve


----------



## timmcat (Mar 5, 2012)

Subbed, might have to read the whole thread agian, way to much info, might have to take notes.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 5, 2012)

stihl038x2 said:


> Are you just turning a "straight taper" on the squish band up to the combustion chamber ?? What angle , 2* ??
> What carb work are you doing on the WT194 other than a polish & thinning ? Venturi boring ? re-jet ??
> 
> Steve



I've done a bunch of these saws Steve......and I've done them several different ways. I've just cut the protruding band out up the the dome (that's the one that needs the right cutter shape)......I've cut the whole dome out all the way to the combustion chamber on a 2° angle....I've also cut it out flat........I've done a few different popups as well.

On the carbs.........polish, thinning, and a little venturi boring. There's not much venturi to cut in the 194 though. I would love to find a carb that fits these saws without the butchering that it takes to put an 044 carb on them.


----------



## tlandrum (Mar 5, 2012)

in my humble opinion the best first mod for an 026 is jack it up and throw a 346xp under the hood and then itll run :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bcorradi (Mar 5, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> in my humble opinion the best first mod for an 026 is jack it up and throw a 346xp under the hood and then itll run :hmm3grin2orange:


Do you woodsport stihls for others, or just huskies?


----------



## tlandrum (Mar 5, 2012)

i cut my teeth on stihls and have built some mean little 026 saws but the gains just are not in the 026 that are in the 346 for a woods port. but with some real butchering on the 026 it'll run and i still have a couple of 2 piece head 026 cylinders in the shop.


----------



## bcorradi (Mar 6, 2012)

Ok...I've seen some mean ported 026's without 2 piece heads.


----------



## tlandrum (Mar 6, 2012)

and ive built some really good running 026's with stock head but if you really want it to open up and run you have to butcher the carb housing and put in a bigger carb. without it you wont ever get the full potential of the saw.


----------



## bcorradi (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah you are correct and that is a definite disadvantage with an 026.


----------



## rms61moparman (Mar 6, 2012)

bcorradi said:


> Yeah you are correct and that is a definite disadvantage with an 026.




E Pluribus Unum!!!!


Mike


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 3, 2012)

*forgive me for barging into this thread*

I just read most of the posts on this thread because I have (5) MS 026 basket cases that I picked up from the Stihl shop I work part time at. I have done some very basic port work on an 4600 Echo, but would like to work on one of these 026's. This will be my first official port mapping. What are some do's and don't on these saws. I am not going to mess with the transfers nor modify the carb. I just am going to do some safe first timer stuff. I am all ears. Things I am thinking of doing, widening the ports to 65%, and removing the base gasket. Will this delay in exhaust and intake need to be corrected or ? 

andy


----------



## Nitroman (Jul 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I've done a bunch of these saws Steve......and I've done them several different ways. I've just cut the protruding band out up the the dome (that's the one that needs the right cutter shape)......I've cut the whole dome out all the way to the combustion chamber on a 2° angle....I've also cut it out flat........I've done a few different popups as well.
> 
> On the carbs.........polish, thinning, and a little venturi boring. There's not much venturi to cut in the 194 though. I would love to find a carb that fits these saws without the butchering that it takes to put an 044 carb on them.



With one of these little machines you could really wring out what helps and what doesn't:


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 4, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> With one of these little machines you could really wring out what helps and what doesn't:



That would be the trick. If I was a smart man I would build something like that. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## rms61moparman (Jul 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That would be the trick.* If I was a smart man *I would build something like that. :msp_rolleyes:






In that case...............are you done yet???:msp_thumbup:


Mike


----------



## Roll Tide (Jul 4, 2012)

I wouldnt let that Randy guy touch any of my saws, no way:msp_tongue:


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 4, 2012)

rms61moparman said:


> In that case...............are you done yet???:msp_thumbup:
> 
> 
> Mike


Building a Dyno is a project that has intrigued me for a while now. A 100 amp alternator and a load bank that was monitored with a computer program *could* work. 

I really have no idea where to start though. 



rolltide said:


> I wouldnt let that Randy guy touch any of my saws, no way:msp_tongue:



Me either David..... :cool2:


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 5, 2012)

*intake port on rubber manifold side question*



Mastermind said:


> I get a lot of guys asking questions about port work. I'm building a really nice 026 for a member and thought I would show a stock jug side by side with a ported jug. This would be a great thread to throw out any questions about porting. If I can't answer them there are many guys here that can.
> 
> In this shot you can see that I didn't really enlarge the intake much, just smoothed out the casting lines and blended it out.
> 
> ...





I noticed that you kept the lower and right side thickening on the intake port. I was practicing on a justsalveagable 026 jug and before I saw that you your photo were I saved these. I filed them to match the radius of the other two sides. Did I do something wrong? 

andy


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 5, 2012)

Andrew Wellman said:


> I noticed that you kept the lower and right side thickening on the intake port. I was practicing on a justsalveagable 026 jug and before I saw that you your photo were I saved these. I filed them to match the radius of the other two sides. Did I do something wrong?
> 
> andy



It's got a lot to do with preference Andy. I match the intake boot to the jug.....nothing more. I like to think that it will flow better matched as closely as possible. Also something to consider is flow velocity......bigger ain't always better.


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 6, 2012)

*That makes sense*



Mastermind said:


> It's got a lot to do with preference Andy. I match the intake boot to the jug.....nothing more. I like to think that it will flow better matched as closely as possible. Also something to consider is flow velocity......bigger ain't always better.



That makes sense. I did not even consider the boot and its shapeing. Good thing that the only one depending on my work is me. :msp_smile:


----------



## Horsepwraddict (Jul 6, 2012)

awesome thread Randy. I just made a trade for a freshly rebuilt 026 and ive wanted to port it since i took it home. When the time comes would you be against cutting the piston for me? Its the only thing i cant do myself.


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 6, 2012)

*what should I do next*

These are pics of the work I did widening the ports this am before work. The exhaust is now 29mm and the intake is just before the edge of the skirt. As with the photos I saw on thread post, I smoothed the bottom edge of the lower transfers. I don't have a tool to widen the upper transfers towards the intake. I think I am going to leave out the base gasket and leave the exhaust timing stock (98), as I saw was done to a saw in this thread. Now the compression will go up a touch and the exhaust timing will retard a bit but do these two cancel each other out? I was thinking of either lowering the intake a degree (more time area and earlier) or trimming the skirt up a smidge. What should I do next, or just mount it and see what happens and then go forward. I am getting a hang of the timing wheel and am sort of mimicking what I have seen in these posts. Still using the training wheels and not ready for a two wheeler. 

andy 
View attachment 244152
View attachment 244153
View attachment 244154
View attachment 244155
View attachment 244156


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 6, 2012)

Horsepwraddict said:


> awesome thread Randy. I just made a trade for a freshly rebuilt 026 and ive wanted to port it since i took it home. When the time comes would you be against cutting the piston for me? Its the only thing i cant do myself.



I don't have a 026 bottom end here to mock it up on. I really hate to do a popup or cut a squish band without being able to set it up and actually check clearances.

If you sent the just the bottom end with piston and jug.....


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 6, 2012)

Andrew Wellman said:


> These are pics of the work I did widening the ports this am before work. The exhaust is now 29mm and the intake is just before the edge of the skirt. As with the photos I saw on thread post, I smoothed the bottom edge of the lower transfers. I don't have a tool to widen the upper transfers towards the intake. I think I am going to leave out the base gasket and leave the exhaust timing stock (98), as I saw was done to a saw in this thread. Now the compression will go up a touch and the exhaust timing will retard a bit but do these two cancel each other out? I was thinking of either lowering the intake a degree (more time area and earlier) or trimming the skirt up a smidge. What should I do next, or just mount it and see what happens and then go forward. I am getting a hang of the timing wheel and am sort of mimicking what I have seen in these posts. Still using the training wheels and not ready for a two wheeler.
> 
> andy
> View attachment 244152
> ...



I would take the transfer inlets on down to the base. Also be sure to verify that you have enough squish before you ditch the base gasket. I've seen a lot of 026s too tight.


----------



## Arrowhead (Jul 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Also something to consider is flow velocity......bigger ain't always better.



Yes Sir. I believe that's overlooked by many. Very important.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 6, 2012)

Arrowhead said:


> Yes Sir. I believe that's overlooked by many. Very important.



When I first started playing around with porting I was after a saw that screamed rpm and blazed thru the cut like some I had seen in certain videos......3 cuts = 3.5 seconds.  

I had no idea that race chain was involved along with clear soft wood. 

My thinking has evolved to a more realistic level after building several hundred saw engines. The saws that I build for the most part are saws that are gonna work for a living. Building an engine with a broad torque range, that will hold up day after day, is far more important than building a high rpm engine that is too peaky to restart the chain in a felling cut. Building for torque requires compression and flow.....


----------



## mt.stalker (Jul 6, 2012)

Doing a 346XP without a angled handpiece is tough, not impossible, but tough. These ports have been widen and raised. 





[/QUOTE]

Why do these lowers look like a porcupine chewed them open ? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 6, 2012)

*Clarification please*



Mastermind said:


> I would take the transfer inlets on down to the base. Also be sure to verify that you have enough squish before you ditch the base gasket. I've seen a lot of 026s too tight.



I will do a squish measurement w/o gasket first. Regarding inlets dow to the base. You mean,cut threw the chrome wall and continue the transfer port 1mm deep threw the base of the cylinder. Right now it stops short of the base about 3-4 ml. Does my interpretation sound correct?


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 6, 2012)

mt.stalker said:


> Doing a 346XP without a angled handpiece is tough, not impossible, but tough. These ports have been widen and raised.



*Why do these lowers look like a porcupine chewed them open* ? :hmm3grin2orange:[/QUOTE]

Looks like something I'd do. 



Andrew Wellman said:


> I will do a squish measurement w/o gasket first. Regarding inlets dow to the base. You mean,cut threw the chrome wall and continue the transfer port 1mm deep threw the base of the cylinder. Right now it stops short of the base about 3-4 ml. Does my interpretation sound correct?



I'm gonna try to find a picture...


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 6, 2012)

*Can you send 346 stock pics*

I've never had a 346 cylinder, can you send a pic of the original before modified. 

andy


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 7, 2012)

*easy to be caught up in the passion.*



Mastermind said:


> When I first started playing around with porting I was after a saw that screamed rpm and blazed thru the cut like some I had seen in certain videos......3 cuts = 3.5 seconds.
> 
> I had no idea that race chain was involved along with clear soft wood.
> 
> My thinking has evolved to a more realistic level after building several hundred saw engines. The saws that I build for the most part are saws that are gonna work for a living. Building an engine with a broad torque range, that will hold up day after day, is far more important than building a high rpm engine that is too peaky to restart the chain in a felling cut. Building for torque requires compression and flow.....



I certainly can see what you mean. So as you recommended, I tapered the 026 lower transfer ports to the base and thought that would be a good place to stop for now and started reassembly. Thank you for the help and I will post video with it cutting, bad or good. :msp_tongue:

andy


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 11, 2012)

*My 026 porting update*

Hello all in this thread. 

I just ran my ported 026 the Randy tutored me with via this thread. It started and idled right from first put and i noticed was twice as loud as stock. The guys in the stilh shop at lunch had to put ear protection on even though I was outside. I got it home and tach tuned it for 2400 low and 14000 high. I used fresh 50:1 synthetic and walk over to my log pile (6 to 16" hard wood). The engine would first would dip after a heated cut, but then it began to idle dependably regardless of load.or heat I cut for another 10 min and tach'ed it again, no change to the H. It climbed to to 14200, I continued cutting for another 15 min and noticed that the rpms in cut were climbing and so was the torque. Then I picked up the tach tack again at around 35 min of continous cutting in hard wood, it was 14500. All this time, even when cutting up against the wood pile, the saw ran noticeably very cool. When I quit after the first tank of gas, the saw fins were almost touchable and the it had great throttle repsonse and idled like factory. Can some one tell me what was happening inside the saw for it to respond this way? I am very pleased with my second port job and I will post a video soon. 

andy


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 19, 2012)

*Update on my 2nd port job on an 026*

I just finished the 5th tank of gas tonight using the ported 026. It has a stock full comp, full chisel Stihl .325 chain with an 18" bar on it with a 7 bit rim. I also brought along to compare a stock Dolmar 5100 (same B/C set up) and stock Dolmar 6400 (3/8 set up). Basically something the same size and something a bit larger. My observation is the ported 026 Stihl is lighter than the 5100, has lower rpms, wider torque range. The 5100 has higher rpms and a narower torque range and is a little heavier. The 6400 cuts like a 65 cc saw, no comparison, so forget it for this test. The throttle response is slower on the Stihl. They match for cutting speed in wood around 8" or under. When the wood gets larger the ported 026 has more grunt and would cut better under more downward pressure. However, If you kept the pressure on the 5100's bar in larger wood, matched with its narrower power band they cut very close but I would give it to 026.


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Jul 21, 2012)

*Another update on my ported 026*

Hello all on this thread. Pardon me if I am a bit smug about my second port job which coached by folks on this thread. So actually a big thank you all. As some history, I have a box 5 026 parts saws. I put one together two weeks ago and ported it. I ran it against my stock 5100 and thought it was ahead by little. It had more grunt for sure. Anyways, I friend has been back and forth wanting a saw. He has been borrowing his brothers Husqvarna 350 and that was his experience with saws. I mentioned this ported 026 and a stock 362xp that I just put together. He came over today and I carried all my saws over to the fire wood pile and lined them up, so that he could get a feel for a variety of saw and for comparison. The line up was 242xp stock, MS026 ported, dolmar 5100 stock, Dolmar 6400 stock, 362xp stock, and MS066 muffler mod. He cut with all the saws in 6" and then in 12" hard wood. All saws full comp full chisel, sharp. The smaller saws had .325 and larger 3/8. He thought the 066 was way to big, the 6400 cut like a hot knife threw butter, the 362 xp was good but was larger than he needed, the 242xp was not strong enough in the 12" and it came down to the 5100 and the 026. he went back and forth in the the 12" keeping the saws running and he thought the ported 026 cut faster and was lighter. I sold it to him for the same price as a good running stock 026 and he was very pleased. Since I am not a pro saw porter I though this was fair, paid practice. My next saw is a Jonsered 920 that has been gathering dust. Does any one know if this was takes well to modification? I have enough 026's to make another and try something extra. 

andy


----------



## T0RN4D0 (Aug 31, 2012)

First i'd like to thank Mastermind for sharing his pictures and knowledge with us, much obliged. 

I started my first porting today, also on a 026. I opened her up and cleaned the carbon of the piston, there was quite a lot. Then I checked squish to see if i can drop the base gasket. And it looks like its a no-go, in some places it squished the solder to practically 0, in others i think the most was bout 0.012. Does threebond 1194 add any usable clearance? I think i'm gonna have to go with the original base gasket or make one thinner, but i have no idea what to use. I'm thinking i can add the liquid gasket to make it tight, just need something to get proper clearance. Any ideas?

I grinded for 2 hrs on the muffler to get rid of the baffle and i worked on the exhaust port. I think you guys are making it wider but i have no idea what im doing (and this grinding thing is slow) so i didn't want to over do it, because there's no going back... Does it look OK? 

View attachment 250846

View attachment 250847


Tomorrow i'll attack the intake port and just maybe side transfers, but im afraid going near the top ones with my skills (or lack of them). Also still thinking how to go about the muffler mod, the muffler has two opened slices now, i think i may try doing the same on the front side. Cut a few slices with the dremel disc, wedge a screwdriver in and open it up...


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 31, 2012)

Make a base gasket from a piece of aluminum flashing...... .010


----------



## T0RN4D0 (Aug 31, 2012)

0.25mm alum... Im thinking beer can lol, could it work?


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 31, 2012)

T0RN4D0 said:


> 0.25mm alum... Im thinking beer can lol, could it work?



Beer can = .003


----------



## T0RN4D0 (Aug 31, 2012)

I'll see if i can sniff something up. 

Previous gasket is 0.018, if i add the 0.005 and 0.007 i think i'll be in the 0.025 to 0.030 which doesn't sound that bad. I'll measure the squish with original gasket first thing tomorrow, before i go and reinvent the wheel.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 31, 2012)

T0RN4D0 said:


> I'll see if i can sniff something up.
> 
> Previous gasket is 0.018, if i add the 0.005 and 0.007 i think *i'll be in the 0.025 to 0.030* which doesn't sound that bad. I'll measure the squish with original gasket first thing tomorrow, before i go and reinvent the wheel.



:msp_confused:


----------



## c5rulz (Aug 31, 2012)

Subscribed,

Great thread.:msp_smile:


----------



## nmurph (Aug 31, 2012)

T0RN4D0 said:


> I'll see if i can sniff something up.
> 
> Previous gasket is 0.018, if i add the 0.005 and 0.007 i think i'll be in the 0.025 to 0.030 which doesn't sound that bad. I'll measure the squish with original gasket first thing tomorrow, before i go and reinvent the wheel.



You don't want to be any looser than .017-.020. More than that and you are just losing compression needlessly.


----------



## T0RN4D0 (Sep 2, 2012)

I used some paper that was about 13 thou thick and smeared it with liquid gasket on both sides. I didn't take any more pictures. I ground on the intake and a bit on the lower side transfers, just removed the lower lip. Put 3 slices in the exhaust and opened them up, i think it came out quite OK. Goes well with the original holes. 

Today i started it and higher compression was the first thing i noticed when i pulled slowly to check if the rings are in place... The muff mod made it roar, almost like the 046.  Retuned it and it screams like a mad man. In the few test cuts i made it felt like it gained quite a bit of torque. I need to take them both to the woods one day and give them a proper workout, but i think i'm gonna be liking this one a lot.

Here's a pic of the muff mod. View attachment 251091


----------



## Andrew Wellman (Sep 4, 2012)

*Not 026 but 044 porting pics*

I ported my 026 via info from this thread a couple of mos ago and now I have moved onto an 044, again with Randy's input:cool2:. So here are some photos and some numbers. I miss measured my porting numbers with a wrong transfer at 122. I am glad I double checked because I would have raised them way to high to get the 18 BD. I am still working on my skills and knowledge so be kind to my work. 

After porting with out base gasket

Ex 100
Int 75 
Trans 118
BD 18
Ex/int port final width 32mm

Tapered lower transfer ports to the base
Extented upper transfer 2mm towards intake. 

View attachment 251496
View attachment 251497
View attachment 251498


----------



## ckelp (Sep 4, 2012)

hey randy, 

for a dyno in instead of using a a dc alternator and a space heater technique (just because of losing a lot in energy transfer and not getting accurate numbers)
what i'd do is get some type of water pump, just something with an enclosed propeller..
the process would be get the pump primed, go WOT while your doing that have a gate valve with a pressure gauge behind it. 
close the valve and watch the gauge..


if you do it and it works i'll be expecting a ported 395xp to show up on my porch


----------



## Woodman 460 (Jan 18, 2013)

WoW..this is a great thread thanks Randy! I really appreciate the detail and pictures. Awsome!!!


----------



## Grqnbech (Apr 10, 2013)

Very good pictures... Evrything a newbie needs....


----------



## speedsk899 (Jun 6, 2013)

FNG here. Great thread. Very informative. I am currently workign on an 026. It appears that one of the cylinder bolts came out and then broke at the base of the cylinder around a second loose bolt. I am getting a cylinder and piston kit and am thinking about doing some mild porting. 

I noticed in this thread it was mentioned that the carb on the 026 is a little small. What I did not see was a confirmation that a ported cylinder could be ran with the stock carb. Will this cause a problem? This saw is a worker that gets used very often. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 6, 2013)

speedsk899 said:


> FNG here. Great thread. Very informative. I am currently workign on an 026. It appears that one of the cylinder bolts came out and then broke at the base of the cylinder around a second loose bolt. I am getting a cylinder and piston kit and am thinking about doing some mild porting.
> 
> I noticed in this thread it was mentioned that the carb on the 026 is a little small. What I did not see was a confirmation that a ported cylinder could be ran with the stock carb. Will this cause a problem? This saw is a worker that gets used very often. Thanks for the help!



A stock carb will be fine............it does need both the H & L needles though......many of these saws just have the L screw.


----------



## rms61moparman (Jun 6, 2013)

speedsk899 said:


> FNG here. Great thread. Very informative. I am currently workign on an 026. It appears that one of the cylinder bolts came out and then broke at the base of the cylinder around a second loose bolt. I am getting a cylinder and piston kit and am thinking about doing some mild porting.
> 
> I noticed in this thread it was mentioned that the carb on the 026 is a little small. What I did not see was a confirmation that a ported cylinder could be ran with the stock carb. Will this cause a problem? This saw is a worker that gets used very often. Thanks for the help!





Yes, you can run a ported 026 with a stock carb.
It won't have quite as much power as it _could_ have, but after running a stocker, it will be so much better that you won't care......................for now!


Mike


----------



## bower4311 (Jun 6, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> Yes, you can run a ported 026 with a stock carb.
> It won't have quite as much power as it _could_ have, but after running a stocker, it will be so much better that you won't care......................for now!
> 
> 
> Mike



What option is there besides the stock carb? The 044 was mentioned in this but says that it will require butchering of the case. How bad?


----------



## bower4311 (Jun 6, 2013)

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/109702.htm


----------



## old-cat (Jun 6, 2013)

Higher compression only, 026/ms260 = gas mizer saw. For a high output work saw it's gotta be Husky 346xp ported and bigger carb.
JMO


----------



## speedsk899 (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> A stock carb will be fine............it does need both the H & L needles though......many of these saws just have the L screw.



Thanks for the info. The carb does have both the H and L screws. 

Another question I have is if the guys who are removing the base gasket and raising the compression are still using the stick carb? 

Also, do these saws not run hotter when they have been modified like this?


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 7, 2013)

speedsk899 said:


> Thanks for the info. The carb does have both the H and L screws.
> 
> Another question I have is if the guys who are removing the base gasket and raising the compression are still using the stick carb?
> 
> Also, do these saws not run hotter when they have been modified like this?



The 026/260 normally is too tight without a base gasket. 

As far as overheating goes........I've ran these saws with up to 250psi without an issue. I use a "special" blend of fuel mix though. 

That's not to say that much compression is needed........I play around with these things testing different ideas.


----------



## old-cat (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The 026/260 normally is too tight without a base gasket.
> 
> As far as overheating goes........I've ran these saws with up to 250psi without an issue. I use a "special" blend of fuel mix though.
> 
> That's not to say that much compression is needed........I play around with these things testing different ideas.



You're an EPA outlaw!:msp_scared:


----------



## speedsk899 (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The 026/260 normally is too tight without a base gasket.
> 
> As far as overheating goes........I've ran these saws with up to 250psi without an issue. I use a "special" blend of fuel mix though.
> 
> That's not to say that much compression is needed........I play around with these things testing different ideas.



Too tight unless you machine the squish band right? I think thats what I have seen in here.

Is that "special blend" a secret? haha


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 7, 2013)

speedsk899 said:


> Too tight unless you machine the squish band right? I think thats what I have seen in here.
> 
> Is that "special blend" a secret? haha



You can work over the piston instead of the squish..........

I've not got any secrets. People have been modding saws since the 50's. We ain't doing anything new. 

I don't but as much info in my threads as I once did because it causes either disagreements at times, or some guys worry that if I share too much everyone will just port their own saws and us paid porters will be out of business.

I stay a month or more behind and don't see sharing this stuff as any danger to losing work, but at the same time I don't want to ruffle any feathers.....

That said..........if you want to know anything........just ask. 

I use 87 non ethanol (because it's normally fresher, and not blended), then add 2oz Torco race fuel concentrate, and 4oz Belray H1R oil per gallon (that's 32:1).


----------



## Trx250r180 (Jun 7, 2013)

great...........the one saw size that not ported i have and this pops up


----------



## splitpost (Jun 7, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> great...........the one saw size that not ported i have and this pops up



that's easily fixed.....


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> You can work over the piston instead of the squish..........
> 
> I've not got any secrets. People have been modding saws since the 50's. We ain't doing anything new.
> 
> ...



There are plenty of resources to find out about building/rebuilding an engine or carburetor, and yet people still pay to have it done or throw away otherwise good equipment that needs a $10 carb kit and $2 worth of fuel lines.

About the only thing "freely available" has put a damper on is the adult video market.


----------



## 94BULLITT (Jun 7, 2013)

Nice thread mastermind. I will be looking at it a lot when I do the 024S.


----------



## speedsk899 (Jun 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> You can work over the piston instead of the squish..........
> 
> I've not got any secrets. People have been modding saws since the 50's. We ain't doing anything new.
> 
> ...



I know what you mean. People want to argue about everything! Thanks again for the info!


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 27, 2013)

Bump for this one too. Good to see Google searches and links working again.


----------



## glock37 (Nov 27, 2013)

Randy can you repost the pics from the start of this thread there not showing up since the server redo


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 27, 2013)

That sucks......

AS hosted those pics Mike, had I known the damn pics were gone I wouldn'ta bumped this thread.


----------



## tlandrum (Nov 27, 2013)

I was going to bump some of my old threads a few weeks ago and found no threads or no pics in the ones I did find.


----------



## glock37 (Nov 27, 2013)

you don't keep a copy


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 27, 2013)

I have copies of all my pics Mike, But I really can't remember which ones I used.....

I might sit down tonight an work on fixing this thread.....a lot of guys have used it.


----------



## tlandrum (Nov 27, 2013)

ive still got them but thers no way to go back and put them in an old thread


----------



## nmurph (Nov 27, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Bump for this one too. Good to see Google searches and links working again.


 
Is this 026 the one I picked up from you?


----------



## glock37 (Nov 27, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> ive still got them but thers no way to go back and put them in an old thread


cant u just repost them at this point


----------



## glock37 (Nov 27, 2013)

randy if u cant find them theres a brand new oem cyl in box I sent you and can do a before and after


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 27, 2013)

There's no way to edit these old threads.....


----------



## redfin (Nov 29, 2013)

Interested to see the pics of what you did to the piston for clearnce on the first page.


----------



## gregsl (Nov 29, 2013)

redfin said:


> Interested to see the pics of what you did to the piston for clearnce on the first page.



Agreed, I have a 260 fully disassembled and these pics would be really helpful.


----------



## jughead500 (Nov 29, 2013)

gregsl said:


> Agreed, I have a 260 fully disassembled and these pics would be really helpful.


Yeap same here


----------



## Jericho2211 (Dec 3, 2013)

The same for me.


----------



## The Ripper (Dec 3, 2013)

Use "Photobucket " to host your photo's.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 3, 2013)

These pics are forever gone. 

I've been using Photobucket now for quite awhile, but these were uploaded to the site.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Dec 3, 2013)

ok this means i can send you my 026 for a free port job so you can take new pics then


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 3, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These pics are forever gone.
> 
> I've been using Photobucket now for quite awhile, but these were uploaded to the site.



Pics?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 3, 2013)

Trx250r180 said:


> ok this means i can send you my 026 for a free port job so you can take new pics then



I still owe you one......I love that new seat. 



thomas1 said:


> Pics?



Don't get me started.


----------



## PainAndMurphy (Apr 4, 2014)

Too bad about the pics.. but don't give up guys.. I'm now researching to figure out what's the best upgrade for my new found 024 Super which has the 026 stroke.. and I haven't checked the carb model, and if I wanna big-bore this puppy, it's either change to 260 shrouds, or shave a bit off the 2 top cooling fins.. did a plain upgrade of 024S with 260 top-end before, and it's running fine still.. any opinions? Or shall I carry on to search more relevant threads?

B.T.W. , this 024S is very nice, and seems like it has low hours comparing to it's age.. I just wonder what upgrade is best to make it a significantly more powerful work saw with the original carb, or with a 026/260 carb.... hmm...


----------

