# Advice on Latino workers (legal ones), what is your experience?



## theXman (Jul 20, 2006)

Finding and keeping employees is always a problem.  

I'd *really *like to hear what you owners have experienced with Latino workers that come here on a work visa.

I went with two Mexican workers this year through an agency after my brothers business had success with some Mexican workers last year.

Unfortunately I've gotten some bad apples. One was steeling , so I fired him as soon as we had proof. Now my other guy is going to leave because his other buddy (that works for a farm) is being asked to leave because he was caught stealing. Word is they are going to move to the state my first dirt-ball went to because he's bragging he's getting paid $12/hr under the table at a restraunt. My current Mexican guy that is likely to leave this weekend is giving me a BS story that his boy in Mexico had an accident and he might have to go back home. I've about had it! I pay all this money to get them over here, then they steel or leave.

These guys were from Veracruz, Mexico. Two out of the three of my brothers workers are great and very loyal. All the buddies of the one I fired for steeling are now apparently bad apples too.

:help: 
1. What countries do you get your workers from and what has been your experience? (I know people these days are always afraid to sterotype or generalize, I know there are always exceptions, but sterotypes or generalizations are created after a real pattern, so please, generalize all you want here). 

I'm starting to think it's in Mexican culture to take advantage of whatever you can when you can, to help yourself. They will work hard, but you better police them or they will steal you blind. Yes, I do still believe that there are morally good Mexican workers, it's just I've seen so far that the percentage of thieves and liars is high. And now I've been talking to other companies and factories that employ them, I'm hearing the same thing.

2. What agency do you use and how have they been? My brothers used Amigos the first year. They did a great job but was very expensive. This year we used a smaller more private agent that was recommended by quite a few people. He did an aweful job this year, guys got here late, 2 guys never showed up and we haven't gotten replacements. No replacement for the guy I fired for stealing. Doesn't return phone calls..... goes on and on.... I've heard that a lot of the smaller agencies had problems getting workers here on time, this true?

3. Do you have any Latino climbers? From what country?

4. I hear that the workers from different Latin countries often don't get along and can cause many problems if they live and work together, this true?

5. I've heard that a lot of the smaller agencies had problems getting workers here on time, this year (2006), is this true?

I'd really appreciate some input from you owners that have experience in this.

Thank you,
X


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## theXman (Jul 21, 2006)

If anyone wants to private message me instead of replying valuable information in public on the forum, you are welcome to PM me instead.

I sure could use some advice.

thank you,


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## market (Jul 23, 2006)

here in Arkansas Latinos (epecially Mexicans) tend to be better than average workers

they are also usually illegal, but most everyone overlooks that

i'm a old guy and was grown before i ever saw a hispanic in Arkansas. The small town i grew up in ... where i first saw a bus load of tree planters from Mexico ... now that town has more hispanic children enrolled in the public school system than whites

That's how many immigrants there are here.

We have several poultry processing plants that have hundreds of workers in each plant and 100% of the folks on the floor will be hispanic or asian.

They would hire more if they could get them cuz they are good workers.

Of course you have a few rotten apples in any group but overall they are very good. This may change somewhat in your area of the country.

I think the most overlooked good labor source is temps. You only ask for a helper for a week. If he pans out, hire him on staff or keep him temp a few months if you are unsure. This way you can go thru 10 or 12 without the awkward process of firing the losers.

Hope it helps,
market


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## l2edneck (Jul 23, 2006)

My parent company has had great luck with people from mexico they show up every day they are good at what the do they get paid well the only prob with a few is they are a little hard on equip other than that no problems (Im sure someone will have some thing harsh to say about this)Good help is hard to find its just a shame that most people dont want to work period just get paid


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## coydog (Sep 3, 2006)

I've had dozens of latino co-workers in the landscape and arb business, and met a good share of awesome climbers my experience has been that businesses that treat latinos as equals with equal opportunity for advancement are blessed with professional and productive crews. An effort at a little bit of cultural sensitivity ie. self education on managements' part can go a long way toward recognizing and resolving any personality conflicts and or mis understandings. If you get a bad apple here or there well thats to be expected from any labor pool right?


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## madbrad312 (Sep 3, 2006)

Its pretty sad when you people have to get workers from out of country can't find a hard working white man here i am hire me i'll put all of them to shame don't think i'm serious try me .
oh do they even have trees in mexico? thats right they do! how else are they getting over the border!
WHITE MEN DON'T JUMP THEY CLIMB!
Later
MADBRAD312


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## TexasTimbers (Sep 6, 2006)

Hire them? Yep. Go ahead. You grand kids will love you for it.
Here's your "Latino" future  ... if we as a nation continue to allow this all-out INVASION, you better learn to speak "Spanish". 
I better not get started this late.


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## madbrad312 (Sep 6, 2006)

wow that site is something else to bad that knuckle head that started that site didn't say that to his fat white ole lady ! 
i know alot of native americans that would kick someones butt for saying their all one race and white people are the illegals ! heck sign me up for the border patrols i got a 308 that'll stamp their visas  
disneyland is part of the nazi reich heil mickey mouse whats next from them President Bush is a terrorist for bin laden god this is a deep subject to bad the Rio Grand wasn't.
WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP THEY CLIMB
madbrad312


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## TackleTree (Sep 6, 2006)

The Latinos will take over this country without even firing a shot


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## madbrad312 (Sep 6, 2006)

will ?will ? heck man they already have at least up here in cheese head land.
oh well the end is near if we keep supporting isrealites and bumping heads with iran.


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## LightningLoader (Sep 6, 2006)

theXman said:


> 1. What countries do you get your workers from and what has been your experience? (I know people these days are always afraid to sterotype or generalize, I know there are always exceptions, but sterotypes or generalizations are created after a real pattern, so please, generalize all you want here).
> 
> 
> 2. What agency do you use and how have they been? My brothers used Amigos the first year. They did a great job but was very expensive. This year we used a smaller more private agent that was recommended by quite a few people. He did an aweful job this year, guys got here late, 2 guys never showed up and we haven't gotten replacements. No replacement for the guy I fired for stealing. Doesn't return phone calls..... goes on and on.... I've heard that a lot of the smaller agencies had problems getting workers here on time, this true?
> ...



1. We have many Mexicans working for us. They are some of our best employees in terms of being hard workers. They are greatful to work long hours, and they don't complain much (although maybe that's because they don't speak english?) The ones that have served us best have been fresh across the border. They've usually done some sort of menial labor before they came to us like working in the groves or on dairy farms. We've had one guy that was a theif out of probibly 40 Mexicans. The rest of them have foul mouths, but we have nothing to complain about otherwise.

2. We've never used an agency. Try putting a sign outside your place saying hiring. If you can get oe or two good mexicans they usually have cousins or nephews that are looking for jobs. Be prepared to have your english speakig mexicans help others fill out their applications. Once you have a small group of mexicans it doesn't matter if they speak english if they just work together, and have a foreman that you can communicate with. 

4. We have Puerto Ricans and Mexicans. Haven't had any trouble between them. Don't confuse a Puerto Rican with a Mexican though. They'll think you're ignorant and be insulted. The Puerto Ricans do seem to function much better socially than the Mexicans in terms of being more presentable and better fit for interacting with customers, probably because they're more americanized.


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## theXman (Sep 7, 2006)

lightningloader, 

I appreciate your information and for staying on topic instead of making this an imigration debate like some others have tried.

We can start an imigration debate on another thread. You guys can start it.

I admit, I sounded a little racist when I started the thread, I was just pissed off that I paid big money to get them here and I was having problems.

Thank you all for the helpful comments.


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## madbrad312 (Sep 7, 2006)

just wait till you lose your job to a illegal or your business gets farmed out overseas then see how you feel
i'm not racist that would be incorrect i do believe i'm predigest about companies giving jobs to illegals when we have AMERICANS born in the U.S.A that are starving, jobless, homeless.
companies that hire these illegals should be boycotted and ran in the dirt, but that is just my opinion.
what happened to taking care of our own? thats right cheap labor.
maybe we can get some chinese for ya how about another 10k among
good luck with your business as your going to need it
WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP THEY CLIMB
madbrad312


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## LightningLoader (Sep 8, 2006)

Mad Brad we don't hire Mexicans because they're cheaper. We hire them because they work harder,and faster, and rarely complain. We're pretty fair with our employees too, so after a little while the Mexicans are making the same amount of money if not more than the average native because of their overtime.


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## romeo (Sep 8, 2006)

You guys in recently invaided states don't know what your in for. Do you yourself an your community a favor. Go out and find stupid, druged out, worthless American kids and kick the sh!t out of them, work them like dogs, and turn them into men, they were already failed by their schools and parents, maybe you can do something for them. Those Wets are cheap now but trust me, in the long run they will turn this country into the dump they came from.


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## theXman (Sep 8, 2006)

Let me tell you a little about how this works.

They aren't real cheap labor and we do offer jobs to US citizens.

Doing this the legal way as I do with H2B work visas.

The department of labor makes me put an ad in the local paper, our stupid paper will cost me $970, to run an ad for like 3 or 4 weeks.

We have to advertise for American employees first. If any apply, we gladly interview them and will hire them if they meet the simple qualifications.

After it is proven that no Americans will fill the job, then are we allowed to try to get foreign help.

We don't pay them cheap either, the department of labor tells us what the minimum pay will be for each particular job for the area. They view local job pay and set an average. Groundman starting is $8.22, climber is like $12.00. and it goes up from there.

I will hire good working American employees if I can find them. I would prefer too. The language barrier is a problem.

Look back at my posts, I think there should be one on this forum looking for skilled groundmen. Probably around May or June. I offered $25.00 an hour if I remember correctly. NOT ONE, NOT ONE person replied to my ads in various places. And climber pay at $35 an hour.

And you say don't give jobs away to the non-Americans. Well, if I didn't I would be out of business because I wouldn't have any employees! You Americans that say give us a job, don't even apply to a starting pay of $25 an hour for a groundman!

Plus you don't show up for the interview. Or show up drunk. Or late. Or late your first week of work. Or work extremely slow. 

I do have American workers, it does take a long time to find a good one though that can keep up with me.

Later,


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## theXman (Sep 8, 2006)

Oh yeah, and they do have all the same taxes come out of there pay that goes to our government, most of which they will probably never see or collect the benefits from in the future.

Federal tax, state tax, medicare, social security and FICA.


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## buff (Sep 9, 2006)

I would like to ask about how many "stupid, worthless, druged out American kids" that you have managed to work like dogs into manhood? Also, I would like to know how these same kids became the way they are because of their schools.


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## buff (Sep 9, 2006)

I would like to ask about how many "stupid, worthless, druged out American kids" that you have managed to kick the ???? out of and work like dogs into manhood? Also, I would like to know how these same kids became the way they are because of their schools and not their homes and parents.


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## CaseyForrest (Sep 9, 2006)

X man, I have had the pleasure of watching a 50year old Mexican outwork, and, with more care about what he was doing, than a 24 year old white boy. 

Ive seen both sides of the spectrum. Ive seen great White workers, and Ive seen great Mexican workers. Unfortunately, Ive seen more productivity, and better quality out of the latter. All being paid between $12 and $16 an hour, to outwork their white counterpart, being paid the same.

The argument, "they do the work Americans wont do" does hold some validity. Ive watched a Mexican worker do, without complaint, what a white worker was asked to do and complained about it. Keep in mind, both getting paid the same.

Not to mention there's no quibbling on the job-site. Most "families" stick together, and the respect for their elders is ragingly apparent. This is a good thing on a job-site.


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## theXman (Sep 10, 2006)

Buff, I didn't understand what you were saying for a while. I understand now, you were replying to Romeo's comment.

My reply to Romeo is this. I am in business. If I took the time to hire drugged out kids in an attempt to clean them up (which is NOT likely to be successful) and try to make decent citizens out of them, I would be out of business. I'm sure it would be good for my soul, but it wouldn't feed my family and pay my expenses and other employees.
---------------------------

Here's my view plain and simple.

I run a business.

I need reliable hard working employees to make ends meet to stay in business.

I will search for good workers where ever I have to, to stay in business.

Our government looks out for the American worker (first)to make sure businesses offer jobs to our local people first. (And let me say this, if an American applies and meets the simple requirements: like showing up for the interview, willing to work 40 hours a week, able to show up for work, and perform his/her work at an adequate level, I basically will not, and CAN NOT turn them down).

Only after it is proven that I still have no workers. Then the government looks after me by allowing me to pull in foreign workers. 

Allowing foreign workers to come here on a temporary visa to work is what is keeping the American businesses alive. Without them, we would not have reliable workers or any for that matter.

The workers that come here on work visas are screened in detail since 911. 

If more workers were allowed to come here, there would be less illegals. There would be more tax revenue coming in from their paychecks and more businesses would have the man power they need to stay in business. 

-------------------------------------
:monkey: Again, any AMERICANS interested in a groundman job please contact me. Especially if you have experience.

We are also looking for an experienced climber.

Also, a spray technician needed for next year, starting spring 2007.

-----------------------------------


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## buff (Sep 10, 2006)

theXman......I agree with you. A business can not stay in business very long if they attempt to run a rehab work program. I also agree that we could not function as an economy very well if all foreigners were sudenly terminated. One third of all doctors and more in nurses would disappear. Not to mention millions of other technical workers. Then there is the skilled and simi-skilled foreign labor that agriculture and construction depend on. These people show
on time dressed to go to work. And, they do not ask you to furnish them clothes, shoes, cigarettes and lunch money.


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## madbrad312 (Sep 15, 2006)

x-men where you located? i'm coming out to the east coast in feb. or march of next year newport news, virginia in fact. if your serious about hiring a groundman i'll look you up. as to experience i got 23 years of working in the woods logging. as to climbing i'm willing to try anything and to why i don't like illegals or somewhat illegals in this country because they are taking jobs that we underemployed or unemployed americans can do and will do. yes you have bad apples in every bunch but i'm not sure you exhausted all your resources for employees and no i didn't see your ad for a groundman in march or april or whatever month you said. but here i am now send me a application maybe i'll come out sooner. oh don't worry i'm not a drunk, druggie, have my drivers license, plus i'm american.
have a nice day
madbrad


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## TexasTimbers (Sep 15, 2006)

Trying to rehab a druggy white kid is a losing proposition. It's even harder than trying to get your county law enforcment to do anything about known drug houses in the rural area where we live here in Texas. 
We have had a thief hitting us for nearly two years. On 9-5 and 9-7 of this month he wiped us out of over $8000 in power tools (I am in the remodeling business mainly but own a sawmill and do logging) out of one tool trailer.
The Sheriff dept is a Barney Fife operation. 
Everyone said, including me, it's probably illegals. 
Well after the big haul I decided I had to do some investigative work on my own. After a couple of days of full time detective work my leads were pointing to a certain 19 year old white kid so I went around to 3 of our local drug houses and knocked some heads. Could have surely got arrested had the county known about it you can be sure, they would have wasted no time aressting a "vigilante".
After nearly a week of not working at all, just tracking down this vermin, I cornered him in town holed up with none other than his live-in female Bail Bondsman. 
I politely showed him the light so to speak and he fessed up.
I am slowly getting my tools back as he goes around to various drug houses, some of which I visited and invited myself in, and retrieves them.
I will not get them all back. 
Well I have totally screwed this thread up but I guess I had to vent. My point is, I blamed the Mexicans right off. Through my little bit of research I know that most of the rural theft is drug related white kids and that the county knows, and doesn't do squat about it. 
I took on one of these charity cases in 99 and 2000, a kid siniliar to this punk who I now have reporting to me like a probation officer everyday, and that kid broke my heart. Stole me blind after he relapsed. 
This one I am dealing with now isn't hardly even trying. He went and got the tools that were easy to get, but he only puts about an hour a day tracking down the others before I find him at one of the drug houses. 
It would take another 12 paragraphs to explain how much hell that my wife and I and five kids are still going through because of this.
Suffice to say I had to sleep at my shop (about 12 miles from where we live) to protect the big stuff because we thought a gang of Mexicans was doing this and that they would be back to get the big $$$$$$$$K worth of stuff in the shop. My wife was worried sick I was going to get shot. Now, I don't have enough tools to finish building our house. Because I have to replace the tools, we cannot buy a car for our kids to go back and forth to school like we had said we would do for them this year at some point.
We almost surely won't get the house done by Christmas and have our first Christmas in our new home (we are building it out of pocket no mortgage).
Of course according to the county this is my fault because we did not yet have insurance on the place so the tools werent covered either.
There is much more to this stroy but my point is, as far as I am concerned the biggest problem we have in this country right now is not illegals, it is the f%[email protected]^&@*&ing meth labs and white trash punks stealing like madmen to support their habits.
The fundamental problem though is that this country has taken God out of the schools and parents don't give a damn about raisinf their kids. Most all of these drug kids come from broken homes.
I am going to go out and hire a Mexican to live in a tent at my property to shoot white kids who try to come steal our liveliehood. I know I will have no problem finding a dependable one who ia a good shot.
Enough of my rant I apologize for trashing this thread. Moderater feel free to delete it. It's off my chest now.


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## madbrad312 (Sep 15, 2006)

texas timbers sorry about your lose. why not shot the pricks that got the crack or meth heads started on the drugs to begin with. local law enforcement can almost always suck specially when most frequent these houses to begin with. the only way to deal with this is like you did doing some digging around yourself and handling it yourself what would the law do to these people in court lets see probation maybe jail time. if it were my tools which is my lively hood they would not leave my sight or would be very secure in my proximity. as to the meth head that stole your tools you gave him a job? to pay for the tools? as to not having insurance to regain your loses i don't understand how you can run a business without it. if you hire an illegal to protect your possession's make sure it ain't you he starts shooting at.
good luck finding your tools and i'm sure you can convert the meth head into a good American.
have a nice day.
madbrad


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## TexasTimbers (Sep 15, 2006)

madbrad312 said:


> as to not having insurance to regain your loses i don't understand how you can run a business without it. madbrad



We normally do but this we are stretched thin because w edon't take loans out for anything, and the insurance rate for my tools was astronimical.



madbrad312 said:


> ........... i'm sure you can convert the meth head into a good American.
> madbrad



I can tell you have no experience with this. I do. And as far as giving him a job, I am no longer willing to expose my family to this kind of ??????? like I did in 99 and 00 to try and help someone. I have teenage girls and he is not getting with a mile of them as long as I am alive. I appreciate your sugs brad but I respectfully submit you are being very naive when you say you are "sure" i can convert him into a good American. He is in the grip of a spirit far more powerful than simply giving him a job can correct. After I got through knocking heads the other day I went home and prayed for them. Tough love is not what these guys need. Tough time is what gets their attention. They often find Jesus in jail, and for a few, it sticks after they get out. Most revert back to old ways.


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## LightningLoader (Sep 15, 2006)

We had a bunch of white meth addicts next door to our plant, and they stole our tractor and some other odd equipment. They scream profanities at our workers from across the fence and play bumper cars with the trucks that people abandoned at their shanty village. I wouldn't hire anyone that had a history with meth or with buddies on meth unless they'd spent a good amount of time in jail being saved. May have been very good guys at one time, but once they start with the meth they just bring trouble with them wherever they go. 

We've never had to worry much about our Mexicans being on drugs or anything. Don't know of any that have failed a drug test so far.


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## theXman (Sep 18, 2006)

madbrad, I would be happy to interview you.

I PMed you.

I went and looked up my old post, it was back on 6/07/06:

High pay for experienced hard workers in Maryland for Arbor-X Inc. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Experienced hard workers are highly valued and paid very well at Arbor-X in Maryland. If you are just an average tree service worker, please do not apply.

1.I'd like to find an experienced ground man that is worth $20 to $25 an hour. This position needs filled ASAP. read on below for what I'm looking for in a groundman.

2.possibly an experience climber as well ($25 to 35 an hour)see below. This position filled now or anytime in the future.

3.Spray technician. I have an extremely good offer for a very knowledgable insect/disease person. Talk to me if you know your stuff and are decent at talking to customers. hourly on estimates and percent on sales, (like your own company but you don't have to buy the equipment and insurance or establish a good reputation). I would like this position to be filled spring of 2007.

Work is way too busy this time of year for me to get on the net to check for responses, so leave a message on office phone 410 838-2999 and write to [email protected]. But right now, the phone call is what I will notice first, so do that and write some over an e-mail.

Do you have experience and good skills as a groundman but aren't paid well for your skill level and hard work?, then please contact me.

I will likely be interviewing over this next month and a half. If I find you interesting through the interview, we will then discuss our offer in pay per hour and the other benefits. We do have paid holidays, paid vacations and more valuable employees can have health care, retirement, etc...... That is all discussed if we make you an offer.

To be worth the 20 to 25 an hour, you probably need all these and maybe more:
2 or more years of experience full-time.

Excellent chain-saw skills, felling, bucking, cutting for the chipper, saw maintanance.

Excellent roping skills. Good with a lowering device. Good at not shock loading the ropes and rigging. Should be able to.... lets say, let a 2000 lb log run and come to a slow stop without bouncing the trunk and climber. Good understanding of the speed line and other rope rigging the climber may do.

Very good with keeping busy and not being a spectator.

Good mechanical knowledge.

Always on time to work or 10 minutes early.

Can handle a 12 hour work day and come back the next day for more. (we normally have around an 8 hour day, but...)

No smoking on the job.

Speak some Spanish, a plus.

Any CDL, a plus.

No drug use of any kind. Yes, POT is a drug.

No alcohol problems.

Excellent physical shape and use to hard fast moving work.

Good with stump grinder and most equipment.

Some skid loader experience.

Can drive a manual shift.

Know your tree species common names.

Continue to work hard and fast even when boss isn't around.

Have pride and love doing this work.

Arbor-X is a small but highly proffessional tree service in Bel Air, Maryland. We live in a rural area 40 minutes North East of Baltimore.

We have a large devoted customer base and have a great reputation.

Through numerous interviews I pick out the best workers with good attitudes. Our crew members always get along very well and no one is a slacker. You will be happy to work beside these guys and we do some amazing jobs.

We specialize in trees only. No landscaping, no mowing, no turf care. We are a Maryland Licensed Tree Expert company.

Tree removals, stump removals, tree trimming, cabling/bracing, land and lot clearing, insect/disease (but currently not applying) pesticide/herbicide licensed.

I created a small web-site myself a month or so ago, things got busy and I haven't had time to add the 200 or more pictures that I intended to. I also wanted to improve the wording but work got too busy, but anyway, you may learn something about us from the site: www.arborx.com
---------------------------------
Are you an experienced climber? or do you have only some experience but you can tell you have a natural ability to become an excellent climber with more time? I would be interested in interviewing you as well.

a good experienced climber that can do everything is worth $25 to 35 an hour starting.

----------------------
Also I want a good spray technician. If you are excellent at identifying insects and diseases and are good with applications and talking to customers, I want to talk with you. I'm looking for an excellent person that can handle the whole insect/disease area of Arbor-X. I have an offer that any competent individual would be crazy to pass up. It involves a take home company truck, you get a large portion of the sales, you get health plan, retirement.......... You are very responsible for what you make. I would help you get started and work with you the first year. Maybe grossing 30,000 to 100,000 a year?

Thank you,

David Driver
Arbor-X Inc
410 838-2999


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## Guardabosques (Sep 20, 2006)

Everybody seems to forget that this country (and many others) was built by immigrants. Where do you think all the white crackers around here came from? Did they fall out of cracker trees 1000 years ago?


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## buff (Sep 20, 2006)

If someone is paying $30,000 to $100,000 do they really need to advertise?


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## madbrad312 (Sep 20, 2006)

*cracker-saltine or wheat ?*



Guardabosques said:


> Everybody seems to forget that this country (and many others) was built by immigrants. Where do you think all the white crackers around here came from? Did they fall out of cracker trees 1000 years ago?


go climb back in the monkeys azz you fell out of:monkey: 
wait no thats one of your ancestors isn't it sorry:monkey: 
cracker trees i like that something else to drop on your porch monkey azz
:deadhorse:


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## Guardabosques (Sep 20, 2006)

To madbrad312: I see why you go by "Mad Brad." I myself am mostly saltine. You make many assumptions about my race and ethnicity based off of my comment. In reality, I am no less cracker than you. Just less ignorant.

To the Forum Moderators: Where are you? How long are you going to let this racial crap go on? The conversation in this thread gives a bad name to arborists, Sherrill, and tree climbing folks in general.


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## madbrad312 (Sep 20, 2006)

*wait till you lose a job to a illegal*



Guardabosques said:


> To madbrad312: I see why you go by "Mad Brad." I myself am mostly saltine. You make many assumptions about my race and ethnicity based off of my comment. In reality, I am no less cracker than you. Just less ignorant.
> 
> To the Forum Moderators: Where are you? How long are you going to let this racial crap go on? The conversation in this thread gives a bad name to arborists, Sherrill, and tree climbing folks in general.


you are politically incorrect calling white people crackers falling out of a cracker tree i bet you take no pride in your family ancestry your not ignorant just a tree hugger in disguise:censored: 
i'm not white neither i'm Swedish and proud of it
WHITE CAN'T JUMP THEY CLIMB
MADBRAD:greenchainsaw:


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## slipknot (Sep 21, 2006)

When it comes down to it you folks that choose to hire latino workers are hurting this country in a very bad way. The saying that "none of the lazy white boys are willing to do these jobs anymore" is bullchit! Thats just the greedy contractors excuse to pay unfair wages and reep more profits for himself. I agree some of our people in this country are not worth a chit. It is just that you guys make it out to be that NOONE in this country is willing to do the work. We american citizens need to be payed more because its more expensive for us to live here in our own country. I know the latino workers are here looking for a better life but in order for them to gain that better life they must take away from ours! They are NOT helping our country at all...thaey are hurting it. Look at all the crime and drugs and disease they bring up here. As if we didn't have enough all ready?? I know that there are some good latino people but there is also still some good american workers you just have to give them a chance. Most of you contractor like to hire the latinos because its more money in your greedy pocket! If you love and care about your country you would'nt do this sort of thing. Be an amercian and hire an american you greedy fools. All this will come back to bite you in the near futer! I promise!

PS.. I know someone will say this country was founded on immigrants and it was, but what happens when you folks keep bringing them up here and all of a sudden 1/3 of the population is all these immigrants? Alot...crime, terrorism,drugs,disease.. the true american people won't have any way to live so that will cause even more crime because they will do what neccesary to survive, just like the latinos in there own country. Thats the baggage they bring.


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## madbrad312 (Sep 21, 2006)

*has anyone else lost a job to an illegal?*

how many people losing their jobs and lively hood is it going to take before americans wake up? i guess most of them unless we standup and fight for our rights. i'm sick of all these people who are trying to be politically correct when deep down they know white people are becoming the minority.
i say to them god gave you a set of you know what how about using them and voicing your concerns 
i know blah blah just wait till you lose a job to a illegal and it'll happen soon
WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP THEY CLIMB
MADBRAD


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## slipknot (Sep 21, 2006)

I've lost 3 jobs in the last 4 years due to manufacturing plants deciding that they can make more money by relocating the factory in mexico. Does that mean I am unwilling to do the job? No they were takin from me and I was layed off to start all over some place else If I can find another place. I showed up on time and never missed any work and I took pride in what I was doing. What did I do wrong to be punished? This is how it is all over america.
Do any of you folks that want to hire latino workers have anything to say about that? Prabably no.. as long as you don't have to pay a higher wage to an american worker and keep the difference in YOUR pocket. It all comes down to GREED!


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## theXman (Sep 22, 2006)

You guys should go to the "OFF TOPIC" forum, in there is a thread started titled "View on Immigration". This matches the conversation that you wish to have better.

Slip knot, one of the things you said was, "It is just that you guys make it out to be that NOONE in this country is willing to do the work. We american citizens need to be payed more because its more expensive for us to live here in our own country."

I don't make it up that I can't find workers. And I do pay very well. I honestly would rather have a good American worker and I'm looking for them all the time.

If I don't have a single American worker apply, what do you want me to do? Not hire anyone?:bang: 

Don't confuse H2B temporary workers with illegal immigrants. Did you read back in my past posts to see what the process is? I advertise to Americans first.

We don't pay them cheap. We have to start them at the rate of the average worker of this job description in our area.

I am willing to pay very well for a good American worker. Look back at my Ad I ran on this site in June! I ran this ad on other tree forums as well. I did NOT get ONE response from any American worker. Not one response!!! Madbrad is the only one that said he'd come for an interview when in the area, but he just said that recently in response to this thread. No one responded back in June when I really needed someone.

I usually find my good American workers by posting on Monster.com. I was about to do this again in June, but one of my American workers came back to me and I figured I could finish this work season off okay with his help. This winter I will post on Monster.com and I will likely find one good American worker after an ad runs for 60 days.

Don't confuse H2B workers with illegals. Yes, those that hire illegals like to do it cause they are a very cheap sorce of labor. I hire H2B workers, so I will have workers.

later,


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## TXtreeman (Dec 26, 2006)

X Man, I as a Latino tree care owner would like to let you know that there are indeed out there good labor that will work hard for they're money. Down here I hear stories of contractors picking up day labor and not paying them or leaving them on site. That really pissses me off to hear that not simply beacause they're my race but because there is hard laborer workers out there of all races. But that is a big issue here in Texas.


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## TexasTimbers (Dec 26, 2006)

I am about an 1.5 hours north of TXtreeman, in Fannin County. I am of Scot?Irish blood but I am 100% Texan and 100% American. I am also 100% self-employed. 

But what many of you fail to realize is that this issue is not 100% right or wrong. You are caught in the middle of more than one issue. The political issue is too much to add to the mix but I will say that the poiticians have us Texans and Mexicans at each others' throats and that is what they do. That's how they control wars as well.

Every country has the right, AND the responsibility to control the inflow of immigrants by opening and closing the border so to speak i.e. enforcing laws already in place, turning a blind eye, or writing new laws.

Mexicans have been coming across our border since we conquered them and kicked them off of THIER land which they took from the Indians which they took from the Paleo . . . ad infinitum.

The fact is, Mexicans will come to better themselves in America as long as we allow them to. When we as Americans FORCE our corrupt politicians (by vote or recall) to enforce our current immigration laws FULLY then the debate will end and Mexicans will be alowed to become Americans the way the immigration laws are designed to allow for immigration.

The majority of Americans who are against the illegal flood of Mexicans seem to look ONLY at the negative impact they are having. And it is astronomical in terms of money out of our pockets as a whole, but it can't be "seen" by most Americans.

The contractors who benefit in terms of profit only care about the short term. The long term negative effect of widespread illegal immigration form an American standpoint is that our culture is literally going to dissapear within a few short generations. We are letting it by not having recall elections and by not going to the voting booth and putting in representitives who will ENFORCE the current immigration laws.

Having said all that, Mexicans workers are for the most part hardworking and honest and just want to have the same thing OUR forefathers were in search of when they came over on the Mayflower . . . . a better life. Hating them for that is not the answer. I am currently looking for more Mexican workers because I CANNOT find any willing Americans (of any color) to do the jobs. At the same time, my mexican workers know I am for limited immigration and we debate it routinely. We disagree but respect each other because we are all on the same page. An honest days' work for an honest days pay.

Until "Mexican-haters" realize that it is not the Mexicans that are the problem, but OURSELVES for allowing the politicians to be more concerned with their own little empire than with upholding their Oaths of Office, then quit your crying, complaining, and finger-pointing. 
As for me I will continue to hire anyone who is reliable, hard working, dependable, and honest. Those qualities cross all racial lines and borders.


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## Gologit (Jan 2, 2007)

First of all I'm not an arborist,I'm a logger but theres a lot of common ground here between the two occupations. There are a lot of Hispanics working in the woods now. The majority of them are just like workers anywhere and aren't any problem to anyone. My only real gripe about them is the language problem. Communication,especially in the woods,is absolutely vital from a safety standpoint. If I can't communicate with a man I can't be sure he understands how to keep himself,and those affected by his actions,from making dangerous mistakes. Its not enough to have one or two good English speakers on the crew who'll interpret for the rest. Communication can't have any lag time...especially when things are tight and an action one way or the other,undertaken in just a second,can cost or save a life.
I've seen way too many guys packed out of the woods hurt. Or dead. If a guy can't speak enough English he doesn't work.


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## Industry (Feb 14, 2007)

I ran a crew of 5 guatemalans and 2 mexicans the summer before last. They were here LEGALLY(paying taxes like the rest of us poor [email protected]) and they would outwork ANY of the guys I was working with. great group of guys, but the language barrier was difficult. As longh as I treated them the same as everyone else they were happy. wish I had a few american workers to chip behind my bucket truck that worked as hard. Oh, and they were paid $10/hr(our groundmen start at $8.50) because they were WORTH it.


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## Thetreewisemen (Feb 14, 2007)

I've been in the tree game 20 years and worked with many different tree crews made up of many different nationalities. English, Irish, German, Australian, New Zealand (Maori) and since being here, the guys you are currently discussing. NO-ONE and I mean NO-ONE works harder than the Latino/Hispanic boys.......that's all there is to it, end of story. As far as I'm concerned most, if not all of us could benefit from taking a 'leaf out of their book.' I just wish I spoke better Spanish.......Those twats who can't see further than the end of their own stuck up noses should open their eyes, I have nothing but respect for a group of guys who move abroad and then out work and out skill the local work force. In fact, since being in this great country and having worked in the tree game here for 6 years, I've yet to work with an American climber. I agree with TexasTimbers, if you're honest, dependable, hard working and do as I ask of you (without _too much _argument), then I couldn't give a toss where you're from. And anyway, I'm an immigrant.....


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