# LARGE Big Leaf Maple Milling Suggestions?



## Brigade (Sep 29, 2010)

I am preparing a building site of my property and have a number (6 and counting) of large big leaf maples now on the ground. They range up to a maximum of 5 ft diameter at the base for the largest. There is a LOT of good wood. I would like to mill this wood for flooring , cabinets & anything else reasonable for the house to be built. Actually there is enough for a few houses.

Present situation:
1) property is on an island with no ferry or road access so barging or boating everything in/out. Not really possible to get the wood to a mill for finishing & cost would probably be a killer.
2) I don't have a mill at present but am considering an entry level woodmizer or norwood unit ... a manual unit without bells & whistles
3) I will have a small excavator for moving the log sections...presently bucked into 6 - 8 ft lengths
4) since no mill I know of can handle this size of log what would work best to downsize the logs.....I have an old stilh 050 and was thinking of a mini mill just to get to a manageble size....sound reasonable?? other options?
5) When using something like the woodmizer or norwood mill what size planks should be cut.....I was thinking maximum width of the wood & 1.5 inch thick??
6) I will not have a kiln or access to one so the wood would be air dried while stacked in a steel shipping container. Good enough?
7) once dried I thought I could cut the planks into flooring sizes (max 3 in width) and plane them with a portable planer. I was NOT plannig of T&G each piece....is it possible to lay flooring without T&G (use shiplap joints?) or with just edge to edge. I suspect expansion / contraction would make the joint look huge?

I guess what I am looking for are hints or suggestions to turn the raw wood into something to be proud of. In this case is it reasonable or is the project a dream. Best to get feedback from the pros before I spend a lot of money & time on this one.

Any thoughts pro & con on this. I apologize for creating a novel but I have so many questions and relatively little experience in this area.

Regards


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## mtngun (Sep 29, 2010)

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan.

Why 1.5" thick if it is destined to become flooring ?

Not sure if maple flooring is best quartersawn or flatsawn ?

Yes, a mini-mill would help for quartering the big logs, but you're talking a 72" bar for a 5 foot log.  I guess you could cut 1/2 deep at 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock.

An entry level bandmill sounds like a winner.

Don't forget to put a sealant on the log ends -- the sooner the better.


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## brisawyer (Sep 29, 2010)

There is a lot of good sawmill info on forestryforum and on www.woodweb.com. 
I would use the chainsaw to break the logs down into something you can get on the bandmill then saw them to a width that you can put thru the planer easily. No use in sawing 20" boards just to have to rip them down to flooring. Woodweb has a portable mill locator you may be able to hire the sawing out.
The shipping container wont have enough airflow you will have mold issues. End coat the lumber sticker every 24" and stack under an open shed put a ton of weight on top.


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## betterbuilt (Sep 29, 2010)

The last Hard Maple floor I did was actually a mixture of 1 1/2 and 2 inch thick. It was taken to a mill to be tongue and grooved. When it was all said and done I ended up with 1 1/4 flooring. That was the hardest floor I've ever put down. The boards were all over the place. They were the side cuts from a timber frame. 

In the past I've used a spline to joint board together. I'm not sure how it will work with maple but I've used it on quite a few floors with success. I normally use cutoffs from other projects to make the spline from. 

Another method is to half lap. Here is a picture of my kitchen floor. Made form Local White pine. Face nailed






It turned out nice ,but I have had a few boards that lift occasionally.


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## BobL (Sep 29, 2010)

Brigade said:


> > 3) I will have a small excavator for moving the log sections...presently bucked into 6 - 8 ft lengths
> 
> 
> A small excavator moving 8 ft x 5 ft diameter logs - I'd like to see that!
> ...


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## Kicker_92 (Sep 30, 2010)

BobL said:


> A small excavator moving 8 ft x 5 ft diameter logs - I'd like to see that!



You asked...





Just pinch the log between the blade and the bucket and you'd be suprised how much she'll lift.


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## BobL (Sep 30, 2010)

Kicker_92 said:


> You asked...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOve it!


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## DaltonPaull (Sep 30, 2010)

I was cutting big leaf maple with a chainsaw mill today and it flies right though. Your 050 would probably do just fine.

Sounds like you already have the logs bucked. Do you have the ends painted to prevent cracking? If not do it now.

To air dry wood you need shelter from rain and sun but also good airflow. Can you get airflow though your cargo box?


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## BobL (Sep 30, 2010)

DaltonPaull said:


> I was cutting big leaf maple with a chainsaw mill today and it flies right though. Your 050 would probably do just fine.


I just reminded myself of the 050 specs and realize it's 90cc - 10k Max RPM - and a touch more torque than an 066 but at 1500 RPM lower. All in all not too shabby - should be Ok for up to about 36" of cut but I wouldn't want to be cutting to many 5 fters with it.


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty good plan.
> 
> Yes, a mini-mill would help for quartering the big logs, but you're talking a 72" bar for a 5 foot log.  I guess you could cut 1/2 deep at 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock.
> 
> Don't forget to put a sealant on the log ends -- the sooner the better.



Actually I was planning on using the mini mill to remove the edges of the log to fit the mill and flat saw the remaining cant to the best suggested thickness. As you and others mentioned end painting the logs I doubt it`s a big problem since we are now starting the big wet on the west coast & I doubt there will be much if any drying until spring. I hate to sound wasteful but there is so much wood that I likely won`t be able to use it all & cutting off some cracks when the boards get squared isn`t a large concern.


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

brisawyer said:


> There is a lot of good sawmill info on forestryforum and on www.woodweb.com. No use in sawing 20" boards just to have to rip them down to flooring. Woodweb has a portable mill locator you may be able to hire the sawing out.



I figured sawing to the largest size the planer would take and ripping to flooring size after drying would be less work up front. Probably the same number of cuts eventually but I could decide of flooring width at a later date.

It would not be cost effective (or effort) to move the wood off island, pay to have it milled & then brought back. I could probably buy prefinished flooring cheaper.


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

BobL

Brigade Bay is on Gambier Island in Howe Sound close to Vancouver BC.

As you & others have mentioned the container likely isn`t a good drying or storage choice. Since I will need a garage eventually that may be the first project & use that instead.

I`d like to stay arms length from an Alaskan since all I want to do is get the logs sized to fit the mill by making a large cant. I have seen your mill & all the innovations you have made but with all due respect & I do mean that ...... the cost alone would be close to paying for the small band mill.


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> In the past I've used a spline to joint board together. I'm not sure how it will work with maple but I've used it on quite a few floors with success. I normally use cutoffs from other projects to make the spline from.
> 
> Another method is to half lap. Here is a picture of my kitchen floor. Made form Local White pine. Face nailed
> 
> ...



Wouldn`t splining require the same or more effort than creating a T&G. How did you create the half lap & how exactly did you do the face nailing....through the lap or strictly the face....sink the nails & fill....would screwing & dowels be more or less total effort


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

Kicker_92 said:


> You asked...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the pic. I was thinking of something up to the size of an Hitachi EX75 or similar. How would that compare to yours


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## stipes (Sep 30, 2010)

*Quartering with the mini mill.*



mtngun said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty good plan.
> 
> Why 1.5" thick if it is destined to become flooring ?
> 
> ...



It works,,but as you say,,takes alot of turning,,and alot of pataince cause of the bar nose being buried in the cut. Thats something I do enjoy about the mini mill when you dont have a large alaskan and bar to go tru a cut...All in all I guess what you have on hand and what works best for the time...


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

The biggest concern I have relates to the actual laying of the floor. I would prefer to not T&G the planks simply because of the labor involved and I question if I could do it accurately & consistently enough for a whole house.

That is why I wondered if there are good options as alternatives that would still yield a good looking floor & what the pros & cons would be. It may be more cost effective or a better option to purchase prefinished flooring.

Before I invest a significant amount of effort, time & cash I would like to explore any options I may have to use this wood. 

Thanks again for any thoughts or insights.


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## DaltonPaull (Sep 30, 2010)

I think you would want a machine with a power feed to create that much T/G. You might be able to get it planed and T/G'd at a millwright shop for a reasonable price. It would probably be worth getting a quote at least unless you want to invest in the equipment. You can probably top nail the boards without the T/G but I'm not an expert.

I live the NW too, and was sealing log ends just yesterday. A few sunny days is all it takes to crack them and they don't completely stop drying in the winter. Even if you have enough extra material to waste, you'll be spending more per BF for the bandsawing if you get lower yield. - just my 2 cents.


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## Kicker_92 (Sep 30, 2010)

Brigade said:


> Thanks for the pic. I was thinking of something up to the size of an Hitachi EX75 or similar. How would that compare to yours



Some days I wish we'd gone with an EX75 instead, ours is an EX55. You'll have a lot more reach and lifting capacity. A lot of the 75's still have blades on the front, which has been very helpful.


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## BobL (Sep 30, 2010)

Brigade said:


> I`d like to stay arms length from an Alaskan since all I want to do is get the logs sized to fit the mill by making a large cant. I have seen your mill & all the innovations you have made but with all due respect & I do mean that ...... the cost alone would be close to paying for the small band mill.



I wasn't suggesting my BIL mill. 
Alaskans can be made for peanuts like this.


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## betterbuilt (Sep 30, 2010)

The kiln dried maple I've put down has been lifeless and not to wide so it go down pretty easy. The air dried wider stuff I've used has been rather dry but its still full of energy. I wouldn't want to do a hole house with it. I think I had two days in a loft that was 28x14 and if it was that prefinished stuff I would have finished in a day. Every board wanted to bow a different way. 

Is Big leaf Maple a hard or soft maple?

If its a soft maple I would say it would be a lot easier to work with. 

You asked how I made a half lap. I used the table saw. I set it up so I could make both cut without adjusting the saw. I ran the board through on the flat and then I flipped it up and ran it through again. It went pretty fast and I actually made every board as I needed them. 





Splineing is actually really easy if you have a router bit that cuts the groove you can make them pretty quick. I would say if big leaf maple is a hard maple this is not gonna be the way to go. Hard maple is gonna tear up bits. 

As for face nailing verses screwing the floor down its a personal preference. I would rather see nails than have to plug a million holes, any day. I love the way a old colonial floor looks with old cut nails. Its a feeling you can't get from a wood screw.


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## Brigade (Sep 30, 2010)

Betterbuilt:
great info..thanks. FYI big leaf maple is considered I believe a soft maple about the same hardness as cherry. I think it has more colour (pinkish) than eastern maple and more interesting grain & figure but that may be just me.

I've got an adjustable dado blade that should produce that lap in one pass. That may just be the way to go! Good idea.

BobL:
Now that looks like a painless $$ way to make a tool that will produce a cant(s) that will fit a band mill.

This site has people with a wealth of information who are ready & willing to share. I never fail to learn something new after reading a few posts.


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## mtngun (Oct 1, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> Another method is to half lap. Here is a picture of my kitchen floor. Made form Local White pine. Face nailed



Any chance you've got a pic showing a closeup of the finished floor and the nail holes ? I'm curious how that looks.

I presume you set the nail heads below the surface ?


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## betterbuilt (Oct 1, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Any chance you've got a pic showing a closeup of the finished floor and the nail holes ? I'm curious how that looks.
> 
> I presume you set the nail heads below the surface ?




I was actually trying to get a specific feeling for my kitchen floor the ceilings are really low. The floor has been down for five years and I'm pretty happy with it. 






About mid way across the floor I realized I was short on boards. I went out to the barn and grabbed so left overs from a job that had sat out in the rain and got stained from the boards being cold packed. I was actually happy with the way the knots and colors worked in the room. 









I started out face nailing with nails I had bought through http://www.tremontnail.com/ but I ran out so I called up a friend who has building full of old nails and bolts and we found a few cigar boxes of cut nails that were perfect. 

The maple floor I did I used concrete cut nails and after predrilling they did't pull out of the maple rafters they would actually break the floor board before the nail would budge. 

I'm glad to hear big leaf Maple is a soft maple. I've had pretty good luck with drying soft maple. It mills pretty easy also.


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## mtngun (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks for the nail pics. I'm still debating how to do my doug fir floors.

Those Tremont flooring nails cost over $5 a pound. Whoa ! That gets expensive real fast.

My subfloor is OSB, and I'm not sure it would hold a nail well. Screws would be more reliable, just a PITA to plug 'em.


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## betterbuilt (Oct 1, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Thanks for the nail pics. I'm still debating how to do my doug fir floors.
> 
> Those Tremont flooring nails cost over $5 a pound. Whoa ! That gets expensive real fast.
> 
> My subfloor is OSB, and I'm not sure it would hold a nail well. Screws would be more reliable, just a PITA to plug 'em.



I was trying to say the concrete nails were a lot cheaper. They look the same as the tremont nails. The only problem is they are hardened and they snap if you bend them to much. 

I think plugs could be fine. Maybe they would be neat if you used another color. I make dowels by ripping square stock on the table saw and chuck it in the cordless drill and run it into a hole I've drilled in a piece of steel. They work really nice. Its a lot cheaper than buying walnut or cherry dowel.


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## RPM (Oct 1, 2010)

Kicker_92 said:


> You asked...
> 
> 
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Excellent ... another example of big and bigger - JD 992 excavator moving Douglas-fir 7 - 9' dia x 16'. Almost too big for this machine although the guy running it dosen't own it either.


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## poleframer (Oct 2, 2010)

Another way to deal with those big chunks it to 1/3 saw them. I did this with a big doug fir I had, I ripped a cut to center of the log, then rolled it 1/3 over, then ripped to center again, the 1/3 cut piece slipped right out, than flipped it on over and ripped the remaining piece in half, easy cut as the missing third was underneith and I didnt have to block the log up as I did it in place.
I did the cuts freehand with the bar vertical, so in two cuts I had three pieces ready to mill.
When I went to milling, I stood them up on edge, and got close to quartersawn boards, with more wide planks out of each piece.


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