# osage orange (aka hedge)



## bwalker (Oct 9, 2002)

Does any one know if this specie will grow in the upper peninsula of MI? If so, what are its soil requirments, growth rates, etc.?


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## TREETX (Oct 9, 2002)

bois d'arc grows into a large tree here in TX. It does better in E.Texas but this is probably due to water.

Plant males if you can.

Not sure what zone they are limited to.


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## bwalker (Oct 9, 2002)

Why the rec to plant only males?(didnt know there where male and female trees)


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## TREETX (Oct 9, 2002)

My spelling is really bad since I spend more time with a chainsaw and less behind books. My understanding is they are diecious (sp?) being male and female. My experience has been that the females are messy. They have these fruits that resemble a brain. The males seem to have more thorns. 

There is a huge one in the town where O. Wilt lives. Quite a specimen towering over a cafe.

When I was in college we would cut them for wood and quarter split them for bow staves. You can easily make a good self bow out of them.

try seaching bois d'arc or Maclura pomifera online. They are in the mulberry family. A very historically interesting tree. The original barbed wire. Superior bow wood. Indians were found to have osage bows from mexico to northern Canada - showing evidence of trade routes.

In my bowmaking days I was obsessed with Maclura pomifera but I have no experience with growing them. The half dead one on my back porch is evidence of that.


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## che (Oct 9, 2002)

There are both males and females....they seem to bear fruit at a young age so they're easy to tell apart. The fruit is VERY messy, and dangerous to livestock at times (they eat it and some get it wedged in their digestive system...they can breathe ok, but nothing can get past the osage fruit)

They can be a very scrubby tree...they're covered with thorns, the wood is very strong...breaking even a small branch is difficult, and these thorns are the same...your flesh will rip very deeply before the thorn would even think of breaking.

The wood is very good for inserts or stoves, but inappropriate for fireplaces (IMHO) because of the amount of sparks this wood will throw off. Some of the hottest burning wood, up there with locust...actually, a bit hotter I think.

If you grow females, be prepared for many 'volunteers'....the 'critters' eat them as scatter the seeds everywhere. Not good for truck tires, as even the small seedling trees have thorns.

We have many hundreds of hedge trees on our farm...I'm trying to cull the females as I go...some are very old, with a diameter of over 24".

This website is interesting, check out the link 'osage orange profiles', from what I read quickly it describes the tree very well.

www.osageorange.com


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## bwalker (Oct 14, 2002)

I want the females then(wildlife love the fruit I am told). Will they survive MI winters is my main concern.


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## TREETX (Oct 14, 2002)

http://66.180.11.161/trees/whatzone.html

http://66.180.11.161/trees/EC37b.html

that should do it


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## Stumper (Oct 14, 2002)

I have no experience in the UP but there are some thriving in Northern Indiana-I've seen them.


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## bwalker (Oct 15, 2002)

Treetx, thanks for the links. Looks like I am in zone 5 so they should do fine.


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## TREETX (Oct 15, 2002)

I got tired of saying I know a lot about osage but yet, "I don't know." I wanted to know myself.


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## che (Oct 23, 2002)

*I want the females then(wildlife love the fruit I am told).*

Are you sure??? They can get pretty messy. Remember, what the 'wildlife' doesn't carry off turns to squishy, black mush....kinda scary out in the woods today...they were dropping like bombs.

<img src="http://www.maysacres.com/images/nature/hedge_apples.jpg">


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## bwalker (Oct 23, 2002)

Che, Thats what i would love to see. They wont be near my house.


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## Jay Banks (Oct 25, 2002)

There is a male cultivar called wichita that is suppose to be thornless. No fruit, no thorns, and a hardy tree, so I want to try it as a street tree.


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 15, 2002)

why would anyone want this tree, it is not attractive, messy, and those nasty thorns, OUCH!.. I have taken down a few and they are no fun, plus we had to replace a bucket truck tire thanks to a 6 inch thorn protruding from the sidewall.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 16, 2002)

I'm told they make great living fences, hence the coloquial names; hedge apple, post apple and horse appple


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## TREETX (Nov 18, 2002)

They are the original barbed wire.


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## che (Nov 18, 2002)

I'm sure that's why we have so many on our farm. We have 190 +/- acres on the one farm...it's pretty much in a square. I'd say at least half of the west perimeter is all planted osage orange. They planted the trees fairly close, so they grew into each other in places. The limbs curl down so I'm sure when they were younger, it would have been hard to get close to the trunks....quite effective as a boundary, I would think. On rest of the farm they're all through the woods but obviously not planted as hedges. (Many paw-paws, also.)

They're fun to cut in the winter.....the chips are bright orange, almost brilliant on the white snow.

(I'm originally from Minnesota, so these trees are fascinating to me....love 'em and hate 'em at the same time.)

Che


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## geofore (Nov 19, 2002)

*osage*

Why would anyone want them? To get rid of bugs in the basement of your house, cut the fruit in half sit it in your basement on a plate or aluminium pan to kill bugs. Least that is what people around here used the fruit for. They get black and smelly and bugs like that. The juice is more than an upset stomach for the bugs.


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## Jay Banks (Nov 19, 2002)

MDman,
I want the tree for what it can do-survive! If the trials show a thornless, fruitless, variety I have some tough sites that I'd like to have trees in.

This tree may be the ticket. Don't pooh-pooh something without trying.


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 19, 2002)

*Go For It*

subject says it all.


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 19, 2002)

Jay, 

Wasn't knocking the tree. I was only going by personal experience of dealing with it. The tree is not too bad looking if maintained well. Sorry to step on your toes.


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## TREETX (Nov 19, 2002)

Same goes with a lot of trees classically viewed as weeds. Mesquite and cedar are getting popular here in TX and they are the weed of the world when it comes to agricultural uses. Great urban tree though.

Also take into account that the average street tree lives only 20yrs.

Give it a shot.


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 19, 2002)

Tree-of-Heaven is another, Ailanthus altissima, it will grow out of cracks in concrete, but the wood is week and worthless and those males stink.


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## Jay Banks (Nov 20, 2002)

MD,
Don't worry I wear steel toes!! Yes, in the unkept form osage, tree of heaven, locust all are "weed" trees. But understand that in the urban forest we put a much higher stress on trees along streets.

I need trees that perform, by which I mean can take urban life. No rooting area, pollution, poor drainage--you know the rest. If osage can be brutilized in the hedgerow, tamed slightly by removing the thorns and fruit, I'll give it a try in a 2 foot planting strip.


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## TREETX (Nov 20, 2002)

Tree-of-Heaven is another, Ailanthus altissima, it will grow out of cracks in concrete, but the wood is week and worthless and those males stink.

Around here we call it Ghetto Palm


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 20, 2002)

I love box elder, ailanthus, siberian elm for inner city neighborhoods. They grow where other trees will not.

Coming to a fence near you! 

Ghetto plam, so they get topped in the hoot on a regular basis?:alien:


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## TREETX (Nov 21, 2002)

add chinaberry and hackberry to the list of wicked fence trees


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 21, 2002)

hackberry is a landscape tree up here.

Is what you have down there Celtis occidentalis, or a different Sp.?


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## TREETX (Nov 22, 2002)

Celtis laevigata, reticulata, lindheimeri. I think mainly the laevigata here, Sugarberry or Sugar Hackberry. Double checked with my book and it says that the only occidentalis in TX is in the panhandle. 

Does it have good branch structure?? Live a long time??

Here, on what I call Hackberry, if you remove everything rubbing, crossing, dead, dying, or diseased, it is a simple Stihl and Rayco treatment. They are a great wildlife tree - means they volunteer everywhere. Very wolfy, grow straight up through a 400yr old oak, shade it out, killing half the oak, and then dying from hypoxylin after the first stress period.

Simply put, what I call HB is a liability tree and not a legacy tree.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 22, 2002)

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/vol2_Table_of_contents.htm







I think they are a pretty good replacement for the loss of U. _americana_, up here the elm will grow well for 20-30 years trhen go poof over night.

We have some very big C. _occidentalis_ in this area with a nice even spread and clean straight boles. A little corser in form then elm, but can get a good spreading shape.


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## Jay Banks (Nov 25, 2002)

Back to the Hedge-apple.

Current reading in the J of A Ohio urban foresters planted 30 of the males in 2000 and plan another 154. (pg.298) 
They are also planting black locust so I don't know what the streets look like in Ohio but there must be some tough neigborhoods.

PS love hackberrys as well.


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## Dan F (Apr 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by che _
> *
> 
> "The wood is very good for inserts or stoves, but inappropriate for fireplaces (IMHO) because of the amount of sparks this wood will throw off. Some of the hottest burning wood, up there with locust...actually, a bit hotter I think."
> ...


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