# What would you quote this job at? (2 "removals")



## Plasmech (Feb 1, 2010)

I have a potential customer who wants two trees removed. (I have not been able to ID them yet). DBH is 14". Height is 40'. One will be felled into open field. The other will be climbed and mostly bombed. No chipping, no big wood removal, no busking. The customer wants to take it from there. I leave with two flush-cuts and he's happy. What do you think? 

FYI I will have a pro with me since I am still green, but for the sake of this post let's assume it's a climber and a groundie.


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## deevo (Feb 1, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I have a potential customer who wants two trees removed. (I have not been able to ID them yet). DBH is 14". Height is 40'. One will be felled into open field. The other will be climbed and mostly bombed. No chipping, no big wood removal, no busking. The customer wants to take it from there. I leave with two flush-cuts and he's happy. What do you think?
> 
> FYI I will have a pro with me since I am still green, but for the sake of this post let's assume it's a climber and a groundie.



Pictures?


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## irish93stang (Feb 1, 2010)

200 -400 bucks sounds right. to me..roughly 4 hours start to finish? plus include ur time for biddin the job and what u think the customer will pay... plus u can fit it all in the trunk no need for big equipment... but id still need to see the job...


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 1, 2010)

*2 tree removal*

We would do this job in less than 1/2 hour with the bucket truck but they would have to pay 1 hour. $135.00 + tax Later Chuck


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

I bill $125 an hour without a bucket. I'd prolly bill that one at 2 hours but there are a lot of variables. Plus I'd have to see it as well.

EDIT: Just noticed no cleanup on this one. Sounds like a simple chop and drop. If I could get out of there in less than an hour I'd at least want to make a hundo on it myself.


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## Tree Pig (Feb 1, 2010)

I did a tree about that size this summer but it included climbing taking the top out dropping, chipping and removal all done and cleaned up in under 2 hours charge $400 for the job. Doing a tree this week or next a 50 foot black birch with 24" DBH over a pool and ornimental trees but its just a drop and leave but it includes everything to be rigged out of the top 2/3rds of the tree charging $500 for that. If the one climb is and easy climb low risk to property damage then I would say Irish93stang isnt too far off a fair price at around $200-400.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

Wow, I need to move to the land where I can get $400 for a couple of chop and drops on 14" 40' trees with no cleanup!!!


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## Tree Pig (Feb 1, 2010)

tree md said:


> Wow, I need to move to the land where I can get $400 for a couple of chop and drops on 14" 40' trees with no cleanup!!!



well I meant to say around $200-400 range but I cut and paste something and screwed it up but in all honesty every time you climb you risk your life or serious injury so I dont go up a tree for anyting thats not worth my time or money. Reward has to equal the risk. Nothing worse then bidding a job low then something happens, bend a bar, crush a saw, drop your 200t, slip up and get hurt. Yeah these things shouldnt happen especially on a small job but you just never know. Next thing you have a have a job that the pay doesnt cover the damaged equipment or lost time to injury. Ct. is an expensive place to live and things just run more up here like fuel, insurence and just about everything else so you got to get the money. I have never had a HO complain about my prices.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> well I meant to say around $200-400 range but I cut and paste something and screwed it up but in all honesty every time you climb you risk your life or serious injury so I dont go up a tree for anyting thats not worth my time or money. Reward has to equal the risk. Nothing worse then bidding a job low then something happens, bend a bar, crush a saw, drop your 200t, slip up and get hurt. Yeah these things shouldnt happen especially on a small job but you just never know. Next thing you have a have a job that the pay doesnt cover the damaged equipment or lost time to injury. Ct. is an expensive place to live and things just run more up here like fuel, insurence and just about everything else so you got to get the money. I have never had a HO complain about my prices.



Was just pulling ur chain big guy. 

I know prices are higher up there. If you can get it more power to ya!

I have a $100 minimum for just showing up and breaking out a saw.

If there is nothing in the way and no liability and all I had to do was put it on the ground I would probably charge $125-150 for that job and take a pickup and one man.

Like I said, lots of variables to consider. If there is any risk of liability to property the price would dramatically increase.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

SOM, I did a job last month with 1 removal of a small hardwood, About a foot in diameter and 40' as well as prune 2 large limbs out from over the house on a large Pecan and take maybe 6 limbs out of a Pine over the house in the front. $2250 for the whole job but I had a deck encompassing the entire back yard and a postage stamp drop zone. I had to lower every piece of wood. On the removal I had to lower every piece out of a large neighboring hardwood, tip tie and butt hitch every piece with a tag line to keep them from swinging into the house. Job was a referral and the insurance Co. was requiring the work be done before they would renew the policy.

Also did two Cottonweeds a couple of months back for $600. They were like 18 inches DBH but brushy as heck. Had to haul the brush and leave the wood. Stumps also had to be ground. I hit the lady for $700 and she balked so I dropped the price to $600. Plenty of room to drop them but I climbed them to minimize ground damage. The lady had a nice yard. Plus is saved time from having to buck them on the ground under tension. Total time on the job was 2 hours.


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## Plasmech (Feb 1, 2010)

OK here are the pics:

In this photo, the second in from the left must be climbed and bombed:







Here's a good view of the same tree:






rot at bottom:






The one in the middle is a simple felling operation:


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

Umm plas... Those trees look larger than what you described. I would maybe try them at $400 and settle for around $300 if they wanted to negotiate. Stress the fact that there is some liability envolved. Is it just putting them on the ground or do you have to cut and stack?


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## Blakesmaster (Feb 1, 2010)

One hour (tops) is all you should need to do that job. No equipment needed, just cut and run? Friend price? $150 Fair price? $250


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## Plasmech (Feb 1, 2010)

tree md said:


> Umm plas... Those trees look larger than what you described. I would maybe try them at $400 and settle for around $300 if they wanted to negotiate. Stress the fact that there is some liability envolved. Is it just putting them on the ground or do you have to cut and stack?



Yea they are more like 50 foot tall huh? Or maybe 55.


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## Tree Pig (Feb 1, 2010)

tree md said:


> Was just pulling ur chain big guy.
> 
> I know prices are higher up there. If you can get it more power to ya!
> 
> ...



Well this is Ct so you cant prune with out Arborist License so of course I dont prune with that in mind when I am doing a removal I dont climb and cut anything for under $250. But I also have done trees the same size for as much as $1700 (co dom maple one have totally dead and over a house). I guess my point is that the risk in this job isnt worth doing for beer money but the problem is there are guys out there that will do it for the beer never mind the money so its a delicate balance.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

Hard to tell from the pic but the larger one looks to be approaching 60'. Looks like a simple enough job but there is still some liability there. Be sure to CYA and mention the fact that there will be a little ground damage in case he wants to complain and try to renegotiate. Can you just put it on the ground and leave or do you have to cut it up and stack it?


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well this is Ct so you cant prune with out Arborist License so of course I dont prune with that in mind when I am doing a removal I dont climb and cut anything for under $250. But I also have done trees the same size for as much as $1700 (co dom maple one have totally dead and over a house). I guess my point is that the risk in this job isnt worth doing for beer money but the problem is there are guys out there that will do it for the beer never mind the money so its a delicate balance.



Problem here is the bottom has fallen out as far as prices go. It's cut throat around here now. You have to adapt and adjust to survive. Guys are working for about 1/3 less now than they were a year or so back. Plus no one has any money.

I am in two yellowpage books and usually have to bid against the same guys. I went to bid a crane job back last Fall and one of my competitors showed up at the same time as me. I bid $2200 for two medium hardwoods (which was a low bid for me) and my competitor told the guy he would do it for $1100 with a crane. I told the guy he could have it.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 1, 2010)

*2 2 drop*

Yeah they are a bit bigger than fisrt described but right close to the drive. THis is a trim truck dream . I have a XT55 and we could easy get all 4 trees in pic on the ground in 1 hour. I climb also but the trim truck is hard to beat when there is easy access. Later Chuck


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## Tree Pig (Feb 1, 2010)

tree md said:


> Problem here is the bottom has fallen out as far as prices go. It's cut throat around here now. You have to adapt and adjust to survive. Guys are working for about 1/3 less now than they were a year or so back. Plus no one has any money.
> 
> I am in two yellowpage books and usually have to bid against the same guys. I went to bid a crane job back last Fall and one of my competitors showed up at the same time as me. I bid $2200 for two medium hardwoods (which was a low bid for me) and my competitor told the guy he would do it for $1100 with a crane. I told the guy he could have it.



I hear ya man to me there is just too cheap.


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## Tree Pig (Feb 1, 2010)

Hey Plas man you have a good training opportunity there take it. Bit the job as you would for what you mentioned but it may be worth it for the experience to do the middle tree first and set up some rigging off the other. Im sure you could find a strong crotch up there give you a chance to somewhat safely get some experience on the rigging end. By the way wheres his septic or sewer lines?


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## Plasmech (Feb 1, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I hear ya man to there is just too cheap.



Stihl, I think you need to go and arrest these cheap bastards. Come up with some charges, I dunno like reckless endangerment of a trade or something.


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## Blakesmaster (Feb 1, 2010)

They don't look that big guys, c'mon... You're makin' me feel like a cheapskate here. I think an experienced climber could put both those on the ground in a half hour. Huge drop zone for the one that has to be climbed. Cut on the way up, blast the top, tie of the spar and put it where you want it. 15 minutes tops. Toss a line in the other one and send her flying. 5 minutes. That leaves ten minutes to #### around with your gear in and out of the truck. I think $250 is super fair for that amount of work.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> They don't look that big guys, c'mon... You're makin' me feel like a cheapskate here. I think an experienced climber could put both those on the ground in a half hour. Huge drop zone for the one that has to be climbed. Cut on the way up, blast the top, tie of the spar and put it where you want it. 15 minutes tops. Toss a line in the other one and send her flying. 5 minutes. That leaves ten minutes to #### around with your gear in and out of the truck. I think $250 is super fair for that amount of work.



Hard to judge by the pics. Can't see which way the larger tree is leaning. Looks like there is a definitely the possibility that it could hit the house, regardless of how unlikely. I'll guarantee you the HO doesn't have the equipment or know how to fall it. I think it's worth at least 2 bills. and I just have a pet peeve about dropping any tree for less than $100, even if it is a pecker pole. Especially if it has to be climbed. If it were my job I'd hit him for $200 for both trees and come down to $125 for the one that has to be chunked and $175 for the felling.


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## deevo (Feb 1, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> We would do this job in less than 1/2 hour with the bucket truck but they would have to pay 1 hour. $135.00 + tax Later Chuck



Wow, that's cheap, I could get $500 drop and leave easy around here for those 2 trees.Judging by his Motorhome and trailers $450-500


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## Plasmech (Feb 2, 2010)

deevo said:


> Wow, that's cheap, I could get $500 drop and leave easy around here for those 2 trees.Judging by his Motorhome and trailers $450-500



I like your thinking man.


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## tree md (Feb 2, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I like your thinking man.



Only you can know what the market value is in your area Plas. A year and a half ago and $250 a tree would have been a no brainer here as well. Unfortunately our prices have been reduced here due to the economic downturn and cut throat competition. 

Don't be afraid to ask what you think the trees are worth. If there is no competitive bid then you can afford to be a little daring. You can always negotiate down if need be. I know a lot don't agree with that tactic but this economy has changed a lot of business principles. It is no longer out of the question to negotiate and barter.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> They don't look that big guys, c'mon... You're makin' me feel like a cheapskate here. I think an experienced climber could put both those on the ground in a half hour. Huge drop zone for the one that has to be climbed. Cut on the way up, blast the top, tie of the spar and put it where you want it. 15 minutes tops. Toss a line in the other one and send her flying. 5 minutes. That leaves ten minutes to #### around with your gear in and out of the truck. I think $250 is super fair for that amount of work.




:agree2: Looks like a quick and easy. Around here $85 per man hour is still very reasonable. I charged a friend $250 for 1 Red Oak about that size. I had to rope out a couple branches, notch and drop the top. I did clean up. Whole job was about 3 hrs for my son and I. Plus, I was running low on fire wood. Might have been 3/4 cord at best, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

Plas, one thing to remember, just because you're small and just starting you don't have to work real cheap. You'll wind up doing more work on a given job than a big crew with a lot of equipment. I would assume you're getting a good portion of your work from word of mouth. If some one recomended you, the customer is probably allready sold on you. What you are doing now is building a customer base. What ever you're area will sustain, go for it. To just put them on the ground a couple hundred bucks might be OK, from the pics. 

We had a climber that liked to call out on Fridays to go fishing. He'd say I made you a lot of money the first 4 days of the week. What he didn't understand was our rule of thumb was day one of the week paid for license, insurance, etc. Day 2 paid for equipment. Day 3 made payrole and day 4 paid for all the mis stuff. Day 5 was the day that we, the company, made money. 

I think what might help you on your bids is if you pick a reasonable rate per hour that you are willing to work for and multiply it by the # of men on the job times how long you think it will take, you'll be OK. When you bid the job don't think, well I'd like $20 bucks an hour and I can get a kid to help for $8so that's $28 bucks an hour. Your hourly rate needs to be a rerasonable proffesional rate. Around here a reasonable rate for any contractor, plumbing, electrical, tree, is about $85 per man hour. Your area might not command that much. Call a plumbing contractor and ask for their hourly rate, electrician, even the small engine shop. That will give you a fair idea of rates in your area. Good luck, Joe.


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## tree md (Feb 2, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> Plas, one thing to remember, just because you're small and just starting you don't have to work real cheap. You'll wind up doing more work on a given job than a big crew with a lot of equipment. I would assume you're getting a good portion of your work from word of mouth. If some one recomended you, the customer is probably allready sold on you. What you are doing now is building a customer base. What ever you're area will sustain, go for it. To just put them on the ground a couple hundred bucks might be OK, from the pics.
> 
> We had a climber that liked to call out on Fridays to go fishing. He'd say I made you a lot of money the first 4 days of the week. What he didn't understand was our rule of thumb was day one of the week paid for license, insurance, etc. Day 2 paid for equipment. Day 3 made payrole and day 4 paid for all the mis stuff. Day 5 was the day that we, the company, made money.
> 
> I think what might help you on your bids is if you pick a reasonable rate per hour that you are willing to work for and multiply it by the # of men on the job times how long you think it will take, you'll be OK. When you bid the job don't think, well I'd like $20 bucks an hour and I can get a kid to help for $8so that's $28 bucks an hour. Your hourly rate needs to be a rerasonable proffesional rate. Around here a reasonable rate for any contractor, plumbing, electrical, tree, is about $85 per man hour. Your area might not command that much. Call a plumbing contractor and ask for their hourly rate, electrician, even the small engine shop. That will give you a fair idea of rates in your area. Good luck, Joe.



Wow, 1 day a week for profit???

I'd take a second look at your business model and a good hard look at your numbers. From what I see your numbers are low for man hours even by early 90's standards. If I wanted to make plumber or electrician's rates I would stick to the safety of the ground and work one of those trades...


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## tree md (Feb 2, 2010)

Just realized that that last post might have sounded a little harsh. Didn't mean for it to. I was just a little taken aback by the low numbers and 1 day a week profit statement. With the economy in the crapper, it is what it is these days. I still bill higher than plumbers and electricians though. We have higher liability and more risk. 

Best of luck.


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## Norwayclimber (Feb 2, 2010)

Often I have homeowners tell me that all I have to do is get the tree down, and he'll do the rest.

I usually give a price as high as I think the market will hold, and then I add that in that price I'll cut the log into firelength pieces 30-40 cm.

Even though the homeowner has a chainsaw, it usually is a homeowner saw, with a dull chain (at least the chain soon will be dull). I usually explain that we do the cutting as a service thing, as cutting the log dosnt take long time for us with big saws. And then we leave all the time consuming branches and so on for the homeowner to cut and clean up.

Sells inn a lot of jobs, as the homeowner feels he's getting something almost for free, that would have taken him a long time (imagine a 20" dhb log with a dull 40cc saw and a 13" bar (standard barlength in Norway))


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

I knew I was setting myself up with that one. It was our way of trying to explain to workers, not allways business oriented, that you just can't afford to miss any days work when the sun was shining. The other thing was that if that climber didn't come in we wouldn't have work for the rest of his crew. So, we could throw them on the wood pile to have something for them to do, or send them home. If you put them on the wood pile or had them cut the grass at the office, 5 acres, you were operating at a loss. Dad took care of his guys even if he lost money on the day. The thing is in the Mid Atlantic area you are going to lose a good amount of working time due to weather. But, all of the bills keep roling. From late fall through spring you could plan on losing at least a day a week to weather, and in the summer, Dad wouldn't work the men if it went over 100 degrees out. He still paid them half a days pay though. I know that example was overly simplistic, but it put into perspective that if you're in business, you have to work today to pay for the day you can't work. Most of our men worked from pay check to pay checked and lived in rentals, and drove old junker cars or trucks. Dad tried to instill in them that you had to work to pay the bills first, and once that was done, the rest was profit. It didn't always work, Joe.


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## tree md (Feb 2, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> I knew I was setting myself up with that one. It was our way of trying to explain to workers, not allways business oriented, that you just can't afford to miss any days work when the sun was shining. The other thing was that if that climber didn't come in we wouldn't have work for the rest of his crew. So, we could throw them on the wood pile to have something for them to do, or send them home. If you put them on the wood pile or had them cut the grass at the office, 5 acres, you were operating at a loss. Dad took care of his guys even if he lost money on the day. The thing is in the Mid Atlantic area you are going to lose a good amount of working time due to weather. But, all of the bills keep roling. From late fall through spring you could plan on losing at least a day a week to weather, and in the summer, Dad wouldn't work the men if it went over 100 degrees out. He still paid them half a days pay though. I know that example was overly simplistic, but it put into perspective that if you're in business, you have to work today to pay for the day you can't work. Most of our men worked from pay check to pay checked and lived in rentals, and drove old junker cars or trucks. Dad tried to instill in them that you had to work to pay the bills first, and once that was done, the rest was profit. It didn't always work, Joe.



I certainly understand that. Your dad sounds like a good man.

Here's my thing, I shoot for $125 an hour minimum. Might not get that all the time but it is rare that I don't. Sometimes something don't work out as planned and the job doesn't go as smoothly as I thought and I miss my mark. I'm sure we all have those days. Most times I do better than my goal and I finish quicker than I thought. I always try to estimate with the worst case scenario in mind. I estimate on the longest I think it will take me. That way I keep the underbidding to a minimum. 

I know a lot of guys like to bid at a certain rate and not vary from that. I would not be one of those guys. Sometimes I just look at a tree and tell myself that I am gonna have to make at least a grand for this one or I don't want to do it. If it's a risky one where there is the possibility that I could tear something up I'm charging a thousand to cover my deductible even if it only takes me 2 or three hours to do. It's hard to go by just a flat rate. Amount of liability and level of difficulty increases the value of the job. I hear guys say all the time that I charge so and so rate for bucket truck service and so on. More power to ya. I specialize in hazardous, hard to do trees and I'll set the price that I feel it's worth to me. The day I can't make it doing that I guess I'll become a plumber or electrician.


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## danieltree (Feb 2, 2010)

I think one of my best business decisions was determining an hourly rate for my work. It is not applicable to a lot of jobs but helps out on whole yard prunes and such, keeps the customer from adding crazy stuff . I get calls to drop dead trees on empty lots often, I charge 100.00 a drop if it is not very technical. On jobs like the one you are doing its 300.00 . By the time you figure in your time to look at the job (50.00) Your time to get to the job(50.00) your time to do the job(200.00) its a fair price. Often my customers comes out better hiring me to do the whole job including debris.​


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

Tree md, I agree 100%. I bid by the job, not the hour. I was thinking the hourly thing might help Plaz to get up in a respectable price range. There are jobs I wouldn't dream of doing at an hourly rate. Big, dangerous take downs over high value property, you're paying for my ability and knowledge. I hope Plaz isn't trying to bite off that big a chew.

You made another good point, plan for the worse and hope for the best. One of the worse things that can get you around here is getting 3 or 4 hours into a job and the sky opens up, 2 or 3 times on that same job. But, that's life and part of being in business.

Allmost all of our work was residential in the high end neighborhoods of Potomac and Bethesda-ChevyChase. There's no way you could even dream of putting a bucket truck in one of those yards. We used many a 50 ton crain to lift stuff over houses out to the street. That was one of the reasons we stayed in business so long. There were times Dad bought whole bails of burlap to cover a whole yard to keep saw dust from getting in the grass. Others say he was nuts to do that, but because he would do that we got our price. I know that doesn't help Plaz, we had a 4 generation customer base. 

Oh well, I'm off to the doctors, I think I might have bronchitis again, Joe.


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## randyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I have a potential customer who wants two trees removed. (I have not been able to ID them yet). DBH is 14". Height is 40'. One will be felled into open field. The other will be climbed and mostly bombed. No chipping, no big wood removal, no busking. The customer wants to take it from there. I leave with two flush-cuts and he's happy. What do you think?
> 
> FYI I will have a pro with me since I am still green, but for the sake of this post let's assume it's a climber and a groundie.



WHY NOT NOTCH AND DROP THEM BOTH? Are you afraid you can't because of that rot? Should be plenty of hinge wood at waist or even chest height. Afraid tree leans toward house? From pics, does not look like more lean than a properly placed wedge can overcome. Why you can't put the second, on top of the one going into the field is unclear. Have you convinced home owner safest way is to piece it down? Has "the pro" looked at this one yet?

When in doubt, put a rope in it. Price? When working for people that can afford to pay, get what you can. When working for people who can't, work for as little or free if possible.


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## lxt (Feb 2, 2010)

danieltree said:


> I think one of my best business decisions was determining an hourly rate for my work. It is not applicable to a lot of jobs but helps out on whole yard prunes and such, keeps the customer from adding crazy stuff . I get calls to drop dead trees on empty lots often, I charge 100.00 a drop if it is not very technical. On jobs like the one you are doing its 300.00 . By the time you figure in your time to look at the job (50.00) Your time to get to the job(50.00) your time to do the job(200.00) its a fair price. Often my customers comes out better hiring me to do the whole job including debris.​




Exactly, most forget the bid time involved, on this job from what the pic`s show......if no septic tank & neighbors are cool, throwball & a couple cumalongs, let them know yard damage maybe happen.

If they want no yard damage...then raise the price!! do you have something adequate to attach a cumalong to? or do you need to put your truck in the yard?............$300.00 is where Id be, a simple job can sometimes go slightly wrong to cause you that little extra time......always bill with that in mind!!


Good luck!


LXT...................


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## Plasmech (Feb 2, 2010)

randyg said:


> WHY NOT NOTCH AND DROP THEM BOTH? Are you afraid you can't because of that rot? Should be plenty of hinge wood at waist or even chest height. Afraid tree leans toward house? From pics, does not look like more lean than a properly placed wedge can overcome. Why you can't put the second, on top of the one going into the field is unclear. Have you convinced home owner safest way is to piece it down? Has "the pro" looked at this one yet?
> 
> When in doubt, put a rope in it. Price? When working for people that can afford to pay, get what you can. When working for people who can't, work for as little or free if possible.



You'd have to see it in person to understand why the one tree cannot be felled. The obstacles are a house, a propane tank head in the ground, and another tree. Not gonna happen. I know it's hard to see it in those pics.


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## tree MDS (Feb 2, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I have a potential customer who wants two trees removed. (I have not been able to ID them yet). DBH is 14". Height is 40'. One will be felled into open field. The other will be climbed and mostly bombed. No chipping, no big wood removal, no busking. The customer wants to take it from there. I leave with two flush-cuts and he's happy. What do you think?
> 
> FYI I will have a pro with me since I am still green, but for the sake of this post let's assume it's a climber and a groundie.



I think I see at least one Pignut Hickory in those pics, the one with the closeup of the trunk.


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## Plasmech (Feb 2, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I think I see at least one Pignut Hickory in those pics, the one with the closeup of the trunk.


 
Cool, I was wondering what that was.


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## treemandan (Feb 2, 2010)

tree md said:


> Umm plas... Those trees look larger than what you described. I would maybe try them at $400 and settle for around $300 if they wanted to negotiate. Stress the fact that there is some liability envolved. Is it just putting them on the ground or do you have to cut and stack?



Yeah maybe bigger but still they will come down quick. See my post " one drink ain't enough". I had some apprehension with cutting the leaner. I wrote the proposal for 600, the guy thought a bucket would be used but I told him what I would do. 
No, with ALL the time and equipment I have into that job ( and all the others to) I had to charge at least the 350. This was a straight up customer I had never met before. 
I think a 135 would have filled the tanks just so I could make it to another job.


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## Plasmech (Feb 2, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Yeah maybe bigger but still they will come down quick. See my post " one drink ain't enough". I had some apprehension with cutting the leaner. I wrote the proposal for 600, the guy thought a bucket would be used but I told him what I would do.
> No, with ALL the time and equipment I have into that job ( and all the others to) I had to charge at least the 350. This was a straight up customer I had never met before.
> I think a 135 would have filled the tanks just so I could make it to another job.



Check your PM's bro I need to get these quotes out.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

Plas, are you anywhere near Reading? Joe.


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## Plasmech (Feb 2, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> Plas, are you anywhere near Reading? Joe.



I am in 19014.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

I'll have to Google that, Joe.


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## Treecutr (Feb 2, 2010)

I'd go with $400. The drop job straight forward, maybe $150 for that one. The other is not really complex, top, drop a few large sections, done. Given that it appears ground should be nice and frozen, so no worry on lawn damage. $250 for that. I am still a little slower, so I'd say I'd be there no more than 4 hours, but I tend to get very cautious when climbing, and I slow down. Thats also the reason why I don't do hourly rate except with 1 repeat customer.


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## WSTREE (Feb 4, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> OK here are the pics:
> 
> In this photo, the second in from the left must be climbed and bombed:
> 
> ...



$700 put on the ground and grind stumps


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 4, 2010)

*2 2 ground*

OK Have any of you guys done any logging???? I can fall , Limb and buck 80-120 fir trees 100ft + a day. I mean how long does it take you to fall a tree. Maby 5 minutes. Undercut 2 minutes start back cut 1 minute Set wedge 30 seconds. Compleat back cut 1.5 minutes and it's down.OK I said we could easy do all 4 in an hour with the bucket truck. I could climb and chunk the 2 only in less than an hour and with one a fall maby 40 minutes tops. I still charge for a hour $135.00 + tax. This is a little filler job not a days work. Remember the basic of business an hours pay for an hours work. We bid less than 20% of our work and work most everyday. In the summer I only do my established customers unless there is a big removal up for grabs. Try and build your business for the long run > Later Chuck PS> I am a certified Utility Arborist. Certified Faller . and have had in the past my ISA certification.I have been a limited company for over 18 years.


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## tree md (Feb 4, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> OK Have any of you guys done any logging???? I can fall , Limb and buck 80-120 fir trees 100ft + a day. I mean how long does it take you to fall a tree. Maby 5 minutes. Undercut 2 minutes start back cut 1 minute Set wedge 30 seconds. Compleat back cut 1.5 minutes and it's down.OK I said we could easy do all 4 in an hour with the bucket truck. I could climb and chunk the 2 only in less than an hour and with one a fall maby 40 minutes tops. I still charge for a hour $135.00 + tax. This is a little filler job not a days work. Remember the basic of business an hours pay for an hours work. We bid less than 20% of our work and work most everyday. In the summer I only do my established customers unless there is a big removal up for grabs. Try and build your business for the long run > Later Chuck PS> I am a certified Utility Arborist. Certified Faller . and have had in the past my ISA certification.I have been a limited company for over 18 years.



And still working for loggers pay it would appear. I noticed that climbers didn't fetch a very good wage when I was in Northern Cali. Glad I don't work there. Multimillion dollar properties and ex loggers working for peanuts.

Big difference in logging and urban tree care. When the amount of liability increases so does the price of the job.

It's all fine and good to work by the hour when you are falling trees in the middle of nowhere. When you start falling in areas where there is liability that needs to be taken into consideration as well as level of difficulty and personal risk. What are you gonna do if the unthinkable ever happens and you hit the house with a tree that is worth thousands and you bid it for 3 hours at $135? I guess you will eat $600 of the deductible yourself...

There are times when it would be totally asinine to stick to an hourly rate.


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## Plasmech (Feb 4, 2010)

tree md said:


> And still working for loggers pay it would appear. I noticed that climbers didn't fetch a very good wage when I was in Northern Cali. Glad I don't work there. Multimillion dollar properties and ex loggers working for peanuts.
> 
> Big difference in logging and urban tree care. When the amount of liability increases so does the price of the job.
> 
> ...



OK so the one thing I now know for sure is that there is no consistency or standards regarding pricing in this industry whatsoever.


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## treeslayer (Feb 4, 2010)

WSTREE said:


> $700 put on the ground and grind stumps



can you get that amount of $$ and leave it all? very good.

hauling brush, leaving wood? good.
remove it all? not so good. But are you hungry? back to good.


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## tree md (Feb 4, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> OK so the one thing I now know for sure is that there is no consistency or standards regarding pricing in this industry whatsoever.



Plas, did you not see where I posted that I shoot for $125 an hour on run of the mill jobs? That is the minimum that I shoot for. However, there are things that effect market value. Like a storm: Emergency service normally double your hourly rate. Liability: If you are taking a massive tree out from over a house you had better at least have your deductible covered. Amount of personal risk: As in there is no way I am removing that dead tree (that no one else wants to touch) unless you pay me this much money! Level of difficulty: I am going to have to spend half a day in this tree dismantling an ancient antenna, it is covered in poison Ivy and I'm going to have to set up complicated rigging to lower limbs from over the house; No way I am doing this tree unless you pay me this much for this tree.

Other considerations: Are you going to have to bring in specialized equipment? More man power? Is the job so big that it is going to take away from your regularly scheduled work (better make sure your going to make at least as much as you would on whatever you have scheduled on a normal week). 

Every situation is different and you better have you ass covered in every case.

Seems to me that the average estimate you got from folks on this thread would be between 3 and 4 hundred.


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## Plasmech (Feb 4, 2010)

tree md said:


> Plas, did you not see where I posted that I shoot for $125 an hour on run of the mill jobs? That is the minimum that I shoot for. However, there are things that effect market value. Like a storm: Emergency service normally double your hourly rate. Liability: If you are taking a massive tree out from over a house you had better at least have your deductible covered. Amount of personal risk: As in there is no way I am removing that dead tree (that no one else wants to touch) unless you pay me this much money! Level of difficulty: I am going to have to spend half a day in this tree dismantling an ancient antenna, it is covered in poison Ivy and I'm going to have to set up complicated rigging to lower limbs from over the house; No way I am doing this tree unless you pay me this much for this tree.
> 
> Other considerations: Are you going to have to bring in specialized equipment? More man power? Is the job so big that it is going to take away from your regularly scheduled work (better make sure your going to make at least as much as you would on whatever you have scheduled on a normal week).
> 
> ...



I quoted it at $375.


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## tree md (Feb 4, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I quoted it at $375.



Sounds like a fair price. Hope you get it.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 4, 2010)

*2 2 fall only*

OK Res is different and I carry 2 million public libiality, WCB on workers 2 million on the bucket and chipper and 1 million on the one ton. Our large chip truck we use only in summer with a 200 horse power bandit with a grapple on big jobs. We hake our $1000.00 a day . but not on a couple of 30 minute jobs. Later CHuck


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Feb 4, 2010)

*two trees*

Couldnt tell from picture angle. Put gin point in the tree you can drop. Notch the one your going to bomb into this. Lower gently to ground. No ground destruction. Can use logs or brush from this to cushion your notch and drop tree. Or just take top 1\3 or 1\2 if not willing to do as a whole. I do this all the time on high dollar lawn\property. Your close on bid. Good luck!


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## ropensaddle (Feb 4, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> Yeah they are a bit bigger than fisrt described but right close to the drive. THis is a trim truck dream . I have a XT55 and we could easy get all 4 trees in pic on the ground in 1 hour. I climb also but the trim truck is hard to beat when there is easy access. Later Chuck



So in you theory you would do that job for 135.00  I don't beat my bucket down the road for less than 350.00. One tire makes for a bad day. I would drop all four of those trees in an hour once there but you have to figure drive time and if stumps are being ground extra. I would cut all four grind stumps leave everthing lay and minor landscape damage expected in writing for the sum of 450:00 come on guy's this is a business not a hobby.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 4, 2010)

*THats right Rope*

Yes ROpe I would. Rember though the job as first listed was to FALL only 2 trees. THe owner to clean up. I would do this job when I had another one close. We do about 400 jobs a year.so 1 hour is lots would give 1/2 hour of travel to boot . I often do several small jobs in one area in a day. It's the only way to cut travel time. Rember also 80% of our work is not bid anymore. My company has a very good name here. Later


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## tree md (Feb 4, 2010)

I thought that the job was still 2 trees... Did I miss something?


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## Tree Pig (Feb 5, 2010)

Good luck Plas if you get it we want pics man.


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## WSTREE (Feb 5, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> can you get that amount of $$ and leave it all? very good.
> 
> hauling brush, leaving wood? good.
> remove it all? not so good. But are you hungry? back to good.



leave all where it falls


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## highpointtree (Feb 5, 2010)

*break-down of expenses*

I pay my climber $25.00 an hour and he would have them on the ground easy 20 minutes each (probrably 10 minutes). plus drive time, fueling truck, etc . 
$375.00--$475.00. profit not including advertising, insurance, etc.. about 
$300.00-350.00....after all expenses maybe half that. rough way to make a living huh? sometimes the climber will put a $500.00 tree on the ground in 20 minutes and I joke and say thanks for doing that tree for $8.50..he has a good sense of humur. and oh yea. he averages $1,200.00 a week net. so he doesn't mind my sense of humur


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> Yes ROpe I would. Rember though the job as first listed was to FALL only 2 trees. THe owner to clean up. I would do this job when I had another one close. We do about 400 jobs a year.so 1 hour is lots would give 1/2 hour of travel to boot . I often do several small jobs in one area in a day. It's the only way to cut travel time. Rember also 80% of our work is not bid anymore. My company has a very good name here. Later



Well a good name for being cheap is not always the best for business. At 135.00 your not making a dime on that job, I would charge that way for family but no way for attempting to profit. My minimum on those two admittedly simple take downs left lay no stump would be 300.00 unless it was next door to a job I was already doing. If it was to come out and do it 
I will be covered both ways driving etc. I hear all this talk of half hour but truth is if your just flying through stuff you are going to screw up at some point. It is easy to see how this business has got so screwed up by underbidders and cut throats imho.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

You get a GOOD name not for price but for Quality of work. Reliabality and Honesty. Price has Nothing to do with that.


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## Plasmech (Feb 5, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> You get a GOOD name not for price but for Quality of work. Reliabality and Honesty. Price has Nothing to do with that.



That would be the case in let's say finish carpentry but with a removal, the homeowner see one thing: the tree he wants gone is in the end either gone or it ain't. 

Say an master arborist with 25 years of experience takes a tree down and in the end there is a stump and a clean yard.

Now say I took the same tree down. It might take me 4 times to do it but in the end there would be a stump and a clean yard. What's the difference...especially if the work is done when nobody is home hehehehe.

Now pruning and arborculture is a different story.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

Crap read It was to FALL ONLY 2 trees OWNER CLEAN UP. Quality would be no broken sprinkler heads - or any other damage.Realibality would be being there when you say you will be ECT ECT


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## tree MDS (Feb 5, 2010)

The last "just get it on the ground" job I did, I grossed more than $200 an hour on. 

You live in a 500 thousand dollar house and you dont wanna pay alot to have some trees removed eh?? I hope that old bastard had to make like fifty trips to the local hardware store to have the chain sharpened on his HO saw. lol


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

*Ok*

Here is my last post on this topic. Do any of you wonder how Componies like Davey and Asphlund can grow as they have. Send a crew and truck to your area and put them up in a hotel and still get work???? We make it easy for them. Fall 2 trees for 300-400 and they come in and do it with clean up for less next time . Makes them look like gods.The bigger they get the better their buying power becomes for Equipment. THe lower their Unit costs become. Sit in on a utility arborists event at a local ISA conference sometime and listen. They are business men intrested BUSINESS.Now componies like Bartlette and Save a tree are growing using similar methods. THis will be the future of tree service unless independants learn how to get in on the bottom line. Many of our municipal and commercial customers I have had over 20 years . My company has grown and our rates have gone up without any questions .Now the municipalaties do try others when we are busy but I hear all about it later . They shoot themselves in the foot. We still have our customers
Now I do alot of business by email the email us the location and maby a pic. I reply with an expected date for work to be done. NO ESTIMATE. I bill when work done. If I see something else that needs to be done at that site I do it and include it on the bill. Do any of you like doing Estimates??? They really are a waste of time.build a name so you don't have to .Local conditions may affect your prices. Know what your cost of work is. Add a profit margin and get to work. Build a business not an oppertunity for others. ENough said if you don't get this I give up


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> You get a GOOD name not for price but for Quality of work. Reliabality and Honesty. Price has Nothing to do with that.



If that was the case friend I would be golden. Most of the work here goes to cheap underbidding hacks that treat this work as a hobby not a business. Half of whats left goes to weekend warrior's moonlighting and all I get is what neither of them can do here is a perfect example of what they can't do without damage. 



So it is 120 foot tall red oak rotten and leaning over that house it took me two days clean up and stump. I could of had it done in one but I took my time it was down and cut up in one.So your super company would of had it down and cleaned up in five hours and you would have
675.00 right? I mean if I was big enough that is would be cleaned up as it came down I would of had it done in 5 it was on the ground in 3 so whatsa say ?


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2010)

People don't go with Asplundh and Davey here for residential work. Plus most here want to deal with English speaking people. Most are pissed off from them hacking up trees around their lines. They get the line clearance contracts here and that's about it.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

or how bout this one


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

Davey and Asphlund and the like know what they do. When the send a res crew it will be lead by a Utility arborist who has his ISA certification and Works to that and the ANSI pruning sandard.He will have resources at his disposal most of us only dream of.Did any of you read of Asphlund sending 120 trucks to a state hit by a hurricane about 6 years back while still continuing on with all their surrounding Contracts. You don't get on all 5 Cotinents by not understanding your customers needs and Expectations . Where they is oppertunity for growth they or another will in time make a move. History speaks for itself.


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## Ellistrees (Feb 5, 2010)

*$350 min. I go out and $500 min. before I take bucket out*

Maybe I'm not as hungry as others but by the time I take my over head with the saws, ropes, insurance, fuel and and the risk, I'm not sure how anyone can justify two trees less than $500. 

I underbid sometimes for the low income and elderly but look at the house in the picture. 
If it has to be climbed or need a bucket I fell I should get $10 a foot for height plus clean up. 
If it's can all be done from the ground, then sure price it low.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

so at 2 to fall only for $500. you should be able to get 8 jobs like this out a day if they are with in 30 minutes of each other so lets say $4,000.00 a day $20,000.00 a week. Hell I might just move there


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> so at 2 to fall only for $500. you should be able to get 8 jobs like this out a day if they are with in 30 minutes of each other so lets say $4,000.00 a day $20,000.00 a week. Hell I might just move there



In the best of times that is very doable. I've done it before with my small operation and no bucket. Was doing about half that when the economy was good and we were working steady. 2K a day was about normal for us back when times where good.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> so at 2 to fall only for $500. you should be able to get 8 jobs like this out a day if they are with in 30 minutes of each other so lets say $4,000.00 a day $20,000.00 a week. Hell I might just move there



Why so you can ruin it? I mean it is dangerous work why should someone willing to pay the overhead not profit?


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## Plasmech (Feb 5, 2010)

The customer did not call or email me back. I guess the $375 was too high.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

Plas. Try this approach I give a what I expect the time to be amont along with a High Maximum dollar amount. Incase there are any unexpected Costs. ie wind comes up part way into job and you have to recover 2 travel times. or you cut in to find rot and have to dismantle a tree you thought you cound fall. IE I think this job will be 1-2 hrs at $135/ hr + tax. ISA Hazard tree workshops and similar programs are helpful also in determining how much a tree in any given condition can take. It's hard to get established. Here We are the most expensive company by the hour. I rarely get jobs that are bid on by 4 or more companies. I sometimes get to clean their mess. Guys come and go in this business. Good Luck


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Why so you can ruin it? I mean it is dangerous work why should someone willing to pay the overhead not profit?



THe worst injury I have had since certification in1994 is a chiped tooth from thinking I had uncliped my fall arrest lanyard and tryed to jump out of the bucket and was swung back around into it face first and chiped my tooth. My current apprentice and worker of 5 years has never been hurt on the job.SKILL and training and knowledge = Safety. I see many of my friends in the trades gettting hurt alot more than us. Think about it is all I ask


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> THe worst injury I have had since certification in1994 is a chiped tooth from thinking I had uncliped my fall arrest lanyard and tryed to jump out of the bucket and was swung back around into it face first and chiped my tooth. My current apprentice and worker of 5 years has never been hurt on the job.SKILL and training and knowledge = Safety. I see many of my friends in the trades gettting hurt alot more than us. Think about it is all I ask



I started in 1983 the worst I have done job related is four stiches. I supervised men for over 20 years with no lost time accidents. Why, because I bid to where I do not have to hurry to make my wages. Stress and fatigue are the biggest killers in this industry imho.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 6, 2010)

I climbed and topped trees for 25 cents when I was 12-13 years old.I am still climbing at 58 years old. My worst accident was in Construction where I did not walk for 2.5 years after. I went back to trees and ok since. You did mention you had to charge so much because of the danger. Yet it seems trees have done us well. I hardly ever bid anymore so there is no rush when you get paid by the hour and no time spent chaising down estimates for which ya never get paid for doing. NOW the person who figures how to charge for an estimate will do us all a favor.


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 6, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> I climbed and topped trees for 25 cents when I was 12-13 years old.I am still climbing at 58 years old. My worst accident was in Construction where I did not walk for 2.5 years after. I went back to trees and ok since. You did mention you had to charge so much because of the danger. Yet it seems trees have done us well. I hardly ever bid anymore so there is no rush when you get paid by the hour and no time spent chaising down estimates for which ya never get paid for doing. NOW the person who figures how to charge for an estimate will do us all a favor.



Unfortunately not all of us can live in the idyllic setting of the Comox Valley, where the biggest traffic jam is at the Tim Horton's drive thru near the Air Force base, and the clientele is rich retirees from the rest of Canada. 

Try brining the 'we don't do estimates' approach to the Big Smoke (where there are 75 tree companies listed in the Yellow Pages of just one suburb) and you will quickly find yourself in the EI line. Our company has a great rep, and we are scratching and clawing for any kind of work right now.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 6, 2010)

Hey BC thats a good one. We are hit here also down 38% last year. but will survive. ANd yes it gets bad at Timmies. in fact comox is trying to ban drive throughs now cause of the traffic problems it creats at peak times. Small towm has good and bad points.Here there are so many laid off loggers trying to keep their places doing the simple jobs for cheap. But we would do the same for our famlies . Hope Van pics up soon


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 6, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> Here is my last post on this topic. Do any of you wonder how Componies like Davey and Asphlund can grow as they have. Send a crew and truck to your area and put them up in a hotel and still get work???? We make it easy for them. Fall 2 trees for 300-400 and they come in and do it with clean up for less next time . Makes them look like gods.The bigger they get the better their buying power becomes for Equipment. THe lower their Unit costs become. Sit in on a utility arborists event at a local ISA conference sometime and listen. They are business men intrested BUSINESS.Now componies like Bartlette and Save a tree are growing using similar methods. THis will be the future of tree service unless independants learn how to get in on the bottom line. Many of our municipal and commercial customers I have had over 20 years . My company has grown and our rates have gone up without any questions .Now the municipalaties do try others when we are busy but I hear all about it later . They shoot themselves in the foot. We still have our customers
> Now I do alot of business by email the email us the location and maby a pic. I reply with an expected date for work to be done. NO ESTIMATE. I bill when work done. If I see something else that needs to be done at that site I do it and include it on the bill. Do any of you like doing Estimates??? They really are a waste of time.build a name so you don't have to .Local conditions may affect your prices. Know what your cost of work is. Add a profit margin and get to work. Build a business not an oppertunity for others. ENough said if you don't get this I give up



:monkey: Thought you said this was your last post on this topic. You got a big ego and dont realize who is here. I am here and you sound like you are something, hmm, Think before you post, You are not the only one thats been around, I am operations manager of a preferred company so dont think you will be blowing your crap up my ass, I started climbing in 1977 and am certified also. 
Jeff Lovstrom


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## treeslayer (Feb 6, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> :monkey: You got a big ego and dont realize who is here
> Jeff Lovstrom



opcorn:opcorn:

Go Jeff.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 6, 2010)

Me going! 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 6, 2010)

Are you eating popcorn Dave? Waiting?
Jeff


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 6, 2010)

I know who I am . A 58 year old man losing my hair with a bum leg . I am 100% shure at least 85% of you here should be able to whip my ass climbing. I walk slow caus when they put my leg back it's not straight so I go easy on it. THat having been said I would still have bid the job 1-2 hours @135?hr +tax. Charged a one hr. Min if I got it done in the 20-25 minutes it looked like it would take.and moved on to the next job. Sharpen your pencels and remeber GM. It's a tough economy out there. If you are swamped with work bid high if you like then if you don't get the bid it's ok but if you have a mortgage payment and need to put food on the table bid to get the work. OK I am bent over waiting for the shots .


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## ropensaddle (Feb 6, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> I know who I am . A 58 year old man losing my hair with a bum leg . I am 100% shure at least 85% of you here should be able to whip my ass climbing. I walk slow caus when they put my leg back it's not straight so I go easy on it. THat having been said I would still have bid the job 1-2 hours @135?hr +tax. Charged a one hr. Min if I got it done in the 20-25 minutes it looked like it would take.and moved on to the next job. Sharpen your pencels and remeber GM. It's a tough economy out there. If you are swamped with work bid high if you like then if you don't get the bid it's ok but if you have a mortgage payment and need to put food on the table bid to get the work. OK I am bent over waiting for the shots .



Bid one tree for 1500.00 today and got it!


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 6, 2010)

I am glad fo you rope. Here is Something to think about. You Have a good Name and I am shure your Company is well known and Established. I am 99% shure at $1500.00 it was not a simple 1 to fall and one to chunk down only. You probally had the job before you bid as you were known to them or recommended. THe price was formality. True os false? WHen you are starting out you need to work to build your name and company. Help the guy to work is that fair enough. I also do lots of single removals over $1000.00 BUt that was not the info requested True????


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## ropensaddle (Feb 6, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> I am glad fo you rope. Here is Something to think about. You Have a good Name and I am shure your Company is well known and Established. I am 99% shure at $1500.00 it was not a simple 1 to fall and one to chunk down only. You probally had the job before you bid as you were known to them or recommended. THe price was formality. True os false? WHen you are starting out you need to work to build your name and company. Help the guy to work is that fair enough. I also do lots of single removals over $1000.00 BUt that was not the info requested True????



Well most of my work is repeat as is this one. It is fairly simple but will probably need to climb out of bucket cause it is 110 foot tall declining water oak probably 36" dbh total clean-up and stump with topsoil put down afterward. In all probability I will likely end up with more time than I quoted it for but hey, its paying some bills. True just actually enjoying something to bid for a change looked at 13 pines yesterday word of mouth job and I only quoted the first three for now 1800,00 got those as well but prolly should of bid more. There was a crew in the next yard working on the neighbors tree and it made me worry about loosing the work so I greatly discounted it. Oh well, I can turn it into a paying job if I feel my oats when I do it lol. I was also thinking of the remaining 10 that she said we could do through the summer which I always like to bird dog some work.


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## deevo (Feb 7, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> Here is my last post on this topic. Do any of you wonder how Componies like Davey and Asphlund can grow as they have. Send a crew and truck to your area and put them up in a hotel and still get work???? We make it easy for them. Fall 2 trees for 300-400 and they come in and do it with clean up for less next time . Makes them look like gods.The bigger they get the better their buying power becomes for Equipment. THe lower their Unit costs become. Sit in on a utility arborists event at a local ISA conference sometime and listen. They are business men intrested BUSINESS.Now componies like Bartlette and Save a tree are growing using similar methods. THis will be the future of tree service unless independants learn how to get in on the bottom line. Many of our municipal and commercial customers I have had over 20 years . My company has grown and our rates have gone up without any questions .Now the municipalaties do try others when we are busy but I hear all about it later . They shoot themselves in the foot. We still have our customers
> Now I do alot of business by email the email us the location and maby a pic. I reply with an expected date for work to be done. NO ESTIMATE. I bill when work done. If I see something else that needs to be done at that site I do it and include it on the bill. Do any of you like doing Estimates??? They really are a waste of time.build a name so you don't have to .Local conditions may affect your prices. Know what your cost of work is. Add a profit margin and get to work. Build a business not an oppertunity for others. ENough said if you don't get this I give up



Around here, 1 of those 2 companies you mention you need a bank loan to get tree work done by them. I dropped 2 75' dead poplars that were on a lean towards customers home, the HO cleaned them up for $600, took me 2 hours with another groundie(had to rig em etc etc...) They told homeowner they had to bring in the bucket baby crew, estimated it was going to take 9 hours. $1800.00 no clean up. Other estimate was for $750.00. I got 3 more trees out of the deal later in the year as well. I don't charge for the hour for just like some of ropensaddles examples. All the equipment/knowledge/training etc etc. $135 an hour wouldn't keep your business viable/profitable:greenchainsaw: for too long most days. If it works for you then great, but if you are accustomed to a certain lifestyle etc. I'll keep charging what I charge which makes me happy and have fun doing it!


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## deevo (Feb 7, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> so at 2 to fall only for $500. you should be able to get 8 jobs like this out a day if they are with in 30 minutes of each other so lets say $4,000.00 a day $20,000.00 a week. Hell I might just move there



With the economy the way it is, you might not get this in a week.....or 2 (for some) Guess I'm lucky in some ways with 3 contracts I'm usually guaranteed work to keep me and my crew busy. that being said 1 municipality I do work for ran out of money last year for their parks and rec dept and couldn't get the trees removed that they wanted. So it goes on this years budget and so the story goes! Anyways Plas sorry to interupt your thread, have patience maybe they will still call you!


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

I don't rule out a bid for quite a while I just did a tree I bid for 1500 almost a year ago. Sometimes they get cost to budget for the job and sometimes they check out the competition you win some you lose some. My best is repeat because they are buying my skill I have customers that would not use anyone else because they know I will not put something through their roof. I have some that use me because they know, I will not mutilate their 200 year old White Oak. Most of my best customers are right next door to topped out hat racked yards. They can then look at crown reduction and thinning vrs sucker growth falling and believe me they call me and say you were right lmfao.


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## tree md (Feb 7, 2010)

Glad to hear your getting some work rope.

Plas, did you try to schedule the job when you bid it? I always tell them I am available to do the work on such and such day or ask if they would like for me to put them on my schedule (when I have work). If they say they are not sure, want to think about it or are going to get another estimate you can open negotiations if you feel you can do the job for less. You can ask them if they feel the price is too high and if so you can explain to them why you are charging what you are (liability to the house or whatever) and lower your bid if you feel you can do it cheaper (or you are hungry). You can tell them that business has been slow and you need the work and offer to do it for a little less. Try to close the deal when you give a bid. $375 is a pretty fair price for those trees in my opinion though. I think the cheapest I would want to do them for is $300 and that would be dirt cheap.


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## fishercat (Feb 8, 2010)

*hey Plas..................*

instead of picking that tree apart,get a rope in it, get groundie to pull with rope puller or truck ,climb half way up and fold that sucker!

Those are pretty simple.I'd say $3-500 depending on time.With no clean up,you should be out of there in less than two hours easy.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 10, 2010)

It's just one job, go get the next one. We've spent more time talking about it than it would take to do it. I know when you need work, you need work, but some times you just have to quit wasting your time on a cheap skate. You don't want to build a customer base on people like that any way, good luck on the next one, Joe.


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## treeseer (Feb 11, 2010)

Plas, maybe you did not get the job because the owners came to their senses and decided to keep them. That hickory had a very small looking wound, maybe less than 10% strength loss. Any treecutter who tells them the tree is dangerous is doing hack work, with their mouth. A competent arborist *might* prune 10% of the lever arm, and manage the roots.

If you want to make a living by managing trees, learn some biology.

If you want to make a living running machines, get a lawnmower.

Just sayin, nothing personal.


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