# Log Splitter Build



## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 26, 2021)

Howdy from Charlotte.

I am currently building my first splitter and need some help with the hydraulics. I'll try to get the questions out of the way:
1. For valves and pump, what is the best value for reliability and cost? (Looking at Prince valves, 22gal. Pump from Northen Tool)
2. Where to source hydraulic parts without going broke on shipping charges? (valves from Surplus Center)
3. How important is it that the parts are fresh? (produced recently) (MFG date on the pump at Northern Tool was 2003)

*Some details on the splitter Im building:*
Honda GX390 (got it off a generator that I only used for 7 hours)
Old Seitz 5 inch cylinder with a 20" stroke
Log lift
4 way blade with height adjustment
Frame is a W14 x 82 I-Beam (14"h x 10" w)
Homemade 25gal+ tank (stupid idea...)
Mobile home tires and axle
Full auto valve, extend and retract

I based most of my design off the Eastonmade type of splitter. This will be a home use only piece of equipment. This is my first big project into the dark arts of hydraulics and any help is greatly appreciated.

-Jake


Fusion model:


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## blades (Feb 26, 2021)

Prince valve good, Pump I look for one that I know I can get repair parts for down the road- do not care particularly( as everyone is into global whatever) where it is made just that parts are going to be available or repairable- That said the small 11 gpm or so units are cheap enough just to replace but that changes when you start looking at 20 gpm on up . Try to minimize 90deg fittings by using 45deg ones and try to use Hi flow fittings this to minimize friction = heat build in oil which is the death of hydraulic components.


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## rancher2 (Feb 26, 2021)

Jake Looks like you have a good start. If it was me I wouldn't spent all the time of building a splitter and use a 20 inch stroke cylinder. I would go 30 inch at least you can always put a stop on it to shorten the stroke. I would go with a over size rod for quicker retract. I have owned two auto cycle valves and won't own another. I would just go with detent on retract. I would go with Surplus Center for the pump and hyd needs. I think you will find a 22GPM two stage is a little slow on a five inch cylinder. I like the 28GPM on a five inch but you will be a little short on engine for that.


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## olyman (Feb 26, 2021)

is the end of the crankshaft on the honda tapered?????


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 26, 2021)

blades said:


> Prince valve good, Pump I look for one that I know I can get repair parts for down the road- do not care particularly( as everyone is into global whatever) where it is made just that parts are going to be available or repairable- That said the small 11 gpm or so units are cheap enough just to replace but that changes when you start looking at 20 gpm on up . Try to minimize 90deg fittings by using 45deg ones and try to use Hi flow fittings this to minimize friction = heat build in oil which is the death of hydraulic components.


Thanks Blades, This is the pump I was looking at:
_Concentric Hydraulic Pump — 22 GPM, 2-Stage,_

I read somewhere that Concentric was a good brand, but I really don't know. On the hoses, I'm planning to use long sweep elbows wherever possible. Also I would like to use rigid tubes to cut down on the spaghetti look.


rancher2 said:


> Jake Looks like you have a good start. If it was me I wouldn't spent all the time of building a splitter and use a 20 inch stroke cylinder. I would go 30 inch at least you can always put a stop on it to shorten the stroke. I would go with a over size rod for quicker retract. I have owned two auto cycle valves and won't own another. I would just go with detent on retract. I would go with Surplus Center for the pump and hyd needs. I think you will find a 22GPM two stage is a little slow on a five inch cylinder. I like the 28GPM on a five inch but you will be a little short on engine for that.


Thanks Rancher2, I'm pretty deep into this build to change cylinders now. I bought the cylinder many years ago always dreaded moving it because of weight. It's a 5" bore with a 3" rod. I will use this for fire pit wood 14" - 18" seems to be a good size for my homemade pit. I would be interested to hear more on your opinions about the auto valves. I thought that was a game changer, but I have no experience with a splitter.





olyman said:


> is the end of the crankshaft on the honda tapered?????


Thanks Olyman, Yup.... I struggled for a couple hours to get the armature loose(didn't want to damage the Honda shaft or bearings), and that tapered shaft was the crappy prize at the bottom of a box of poop flavored cereal. My plan is to cut off the taper and mill a keyway into the .872" part of the shaft for a Love-Joy. I haven't figured out how to mount it on the mill yet


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## olyman (Feb 27, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Thanks Blades, This is the pump I was looking at:
> _Concentric Hydraulic Pump — 22 GPM, 2-Stage,_
> 
> I read somewhere that Concentric was a good brand, but I really don't know. On the hoses, I'm planning to use long sweep elbows wherever possible. Also I would like to use rigid tubes to cut down on the spaghetti look.
> ...


on my splitter, the briggs had the taper. I took it apart, welded the crank,,lathed it down,,and had metal working shop cut the keyway in. the clown made the keyway wayyyyyy toooooo tight!!!!


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## muddstopper (Feb 27, 2021)

You can buy an adapter for that tapered shank. Or you can buy a lovejoy coupleing with that taper. Beats tearing a engine down to weld up the taper or cutting the shaft off and having to machine the crank end. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1320836775...1291&msclkid=035b8b7b0dd51764b0abeb41d94a6b89


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## CUCV (Feb 27, 2021)

The autocycle valves can be finicky and are sensitive to temperature changes. They are not intuitive to run when the autocycle is not working properly. The two handles that need to be pulled are a bit far apart for my "medium" size hands. If I build a new splitter I will skip the prince autocycle valve. I love the autocycle concept as implemented on my superslit. 
Your wedge looks sweet, did you cut the angle yourself on a bridgeport? What steel are you using on the wedge?


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 28, 2021)

muddstopper said:


> You can buy an adapter for that tapered shank. Or you can buy a lovejoy coupleing with that taper. Beats tearing a engine down to weld up the taper or cutting the shaft off and having to machine the crank end. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1320836775...1291&msclkid=035b8b7b0dd51764b0abeb41d94a6b89


I had no problem cutting a key slot into a crank. I just carefully used a dremal tool and made it accurate. As far as changing or welding the end of the crank I have also done that with no problems. On the very negative side of that equation it is too much and too much work to do so. Thanks


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 28, 2021)

rancher2 said:


> Jake Looks like you have a good start. If it was me I wouldn't spent all the time of building a splitter and use a 20 inch stroke cylinder. I would go 30 inch at least you can always put a stop on it to shorten the stroke. I would go with a over size rod for quicker retract. I have owned two auto cycle valves and won't own another. I would just go with detent on retract. I would go with Surplus Center for the pump and hyd needs. I think you will find a 22GPM two stage is a little slow on a five inch cylinder. I like the 28GPM on a five inch but you will be a little short on engine for that.


Here are a few facts concerning your build. With a 5'' ram you will be in the neighborhood of 50,000 lbs. So your splicing on the end of your I beam may be in question unless there is more gusseting done. A typical approach with your I beam will be to make it about 6'' wide. I would suggest to add material on the bottom edge of the upper edge of I beam to make the wearing edge quite thick. By doing this the wear surface will be large spreading out the load. The slide can be welded solid to eliminate any need for bolts. By simply moving the slide towards the ram mounting end to remove. A 22 gpm pump will need about 15 HP or less. A 28 GPM pump will need about 15 HP or more. I have seen many pumps set up already for the preferred HP that you may want to use. My take on a 5'' ram with either pump will work OK. The 28 obviously will be faster. Remember too fast may be dangerous to some operators. Yes using good sweeping connectors either 3/4'' or 1'' respectively will be an asset. A 20'' ram probably will be too short for most uses. If you are certain that 18'' splits will always be what you want then there should be not too big of an issue. If you are certain that you will be working with small wood then a multi wedge can be a very big asset. For larger wood with knots not so much. Pretty sure as soon as one puts some good size rounds with some good knots the OP will immediately get out the cutting torch. I tried to use a multi wedge more than once but gave up on the process. A good round would cause my structure to twist quite badly. If you are going to be working on warm days for more than half an hour at a time then you will need cooling. Some square or round tubing welded along the middle of the I beam maybe all one needs. I use some 4'' heavy wall tubing both as part of the back bone and as part of the hydraulic reservoir. As far as a log lift I do not have very much of an opinion. Of course there are pros and cons. At this moment for me one of each is the way to go. Where you are terrain being pretty flat and room is not as much of an issues as here then let us know how it is working. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 1, 2021)

muddstopper said:


> You can buy an adapter for that tapered shank. Or you can buy a lovejoy coupleing with that taper.


That's awesome. I never thought there would be an adapter. Do you think it will put the coupling too far away from the motor? I am also wondering if it will slip on the taper?


CUCV said:


> Your wedge looks sweet, did you cut the angle yourself on a bridgeport? What steel are you using on the wedge?


I got the beam and wedge material at a local scrap yard. I'm sure its not the "right" steel, but it seemed to mill better than 1018. Maybe in the 41** family? They had a bunch of 8.25" x 1.25" cut-offs in different lengths at $.30 per pound. Thats what I used for the pusher, wedge, and mounts. 


Ted Jenkins said:


> I would suggest to add material on the bottom edge of the upper edge of I beam to make the wearing edge quite thick. By doing this the wear surface will be large spreading out the load. The slide can be welded solid to eliminate any need for bolts. By simply moving the slide towards the ram mounting end to remove. A 22 gpm pump will need about 15 HP or less. A 28 GPM pump will need about 15 HP or more. I have seen many pumps set up already for the preferred HP that you may want to use. My take on a 5'' ram with either pump will work OK. The 28 obviously will be faster. Remember too fast may be dangerous to some operators. Yes using good sweeping connectors either 3/4'' or 1'' respectively will be an asset. A 20'' ram probably will be too short for most uses. If you are certain that 18'' splits will always be what you want then there should be not too big of an issue. If you are certain that you will be working with small wood then a multi wedge can be a very big asset. For larger wood with knots not so much. Pretty sure as soon as one puts some good size rounds with some good knots the OP will immediately get out the cutting torch. I tried to use a multi wedge more than once but gave up on the process. A good round would cause my structure to twist quite badly. If you are going to be working on warm days for more than half an hour at a time then you will need cooling. Some square or round tubing welded along the middle of the I beam maybe all one needs. I use some 4'' heavy wall tubing both as part of the back bone and as part of the hydraulic reservoir. As far as a log lift I do not have very much of an opinion. Of course there are pros and cons. At this moment for me one of each is the way to go. Where you are terrain being pretty flat and room is not as much of an issues as here then let us know how it is working. Thanks


I thought about the wear plates, but a lot of guys said its not a big deal. The flange it 10" wide by 7/8" thick. I can add them later if it looks like Im getting too much wear. 
The Honda GX390 is rated at 11.7 HP, but the face says 13.O. Close enough for me, and it was free....


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## kevin j (Mar 1, 2021)

Honda has at best misleading and I think purposely dishonest marketing. They put numbers on the side of the engine and everyone assumes it’s horsepower. I have a small engine that’s marked 5.0 on the side in huge letters when it’s actually something like 4.2 actual horsepower in their own literature. I don’t think that’s accidental. they do that across their ranges. Sort of like the US auto industry in the 50s and 60s.


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Mar 1, 2021)

nice DIY project!


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## Wood Hound (Mar 1, 2021)

Yep, like what i see-this is not a back yard build....


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 1, 2021)

I think I need to pull the trigger on a pump this week so I can build an adapter plate next weekend? Any negatives on the Northern Tool 22gal?
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200321057


Weather wasn't the best last weekend so I broke down parts in the basement for the log lift, log side braces, and stabilizer legs.









york said:


> Yep, like what i see-this is not a back yard build....


It's more of a carport build....


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## Wood Hound (Mar 1, 2021)

That pump, may be China, but not for sure...


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## Ol' Brian (Mar 1, 2021)

IIRC, Concentric pumps are made in Rockford, IL. Heritage derives from Haldex-Barnes. I've got a Haldex Barnes on my splitter... what... 20 years old now, on it's second engine, and still making little ones out of big ones.


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 1, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> That's awesome. I never thought there would be an adapter. Do you think it will put the coupling too far away from the motor? I am also wondering if it will slip on the taper?
> 
> I got the beam and wedge material at a local scrap yard. I'm sure its not the "right" steel, but it seemed to mill better than 1018. Maybe in the 41** family? They had a bunch of 8.25" x 1.25" cut-offs in different lengths at $.30 per pound. Thats what I used for the pusher, wedge, and mounts.
> 
> ...


I will be curious to find out how with the multi wedge that your chassis hold up. Also just realized that you are using less than 16 HP so heat should not be a big deal. I use at least 16 HP or more. I am always moving splitter around and it is heavy. Thanks


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## kevin j (Mar 1, 2021)

What software do you use? I was pretty good on the older AutoCAD and then away from it for several years and now inventors gotten so incredibly complicated that I don’t even want to go there


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 2, 2021)

Ol' Brian said:


> IIRC, Concentric pumps are made in Rockford, IL. Heritage derives from Haldex-Barnes. I've got a Haldex Barnes on my splitter... what... 20 years old now, on it's second engine, and still making little ones out of big ones.


In a video from Eastonmade or Wolf Ridge, he commented that the Concentric has worked pretty good for them. 


Ted Jenkins said:


> I will be curious to find out how with the multi wedge that your chassis hold up. Also just realized that you are using less than 16 HP so heat should not be a big deal. I use at least 16 HP or more. I am always moving splitter around and it is heavy. Thanks


Me too... For some scale:



To my untrained eye it seems that most fo the force will try to break the welds at the noted spots in this pic. But to me the weak link might be the 1/2" web that its. welds too.











kevin j said:


> What software do you use? I was pretty good on the older AutoCAD and then away from it for several years and now inventors gotten so incredibly complicated that I don’t even want to go there


I learned Fusion 360 a couple years ago. Really helps me figure out the rough ideas.


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## cookies (Mar 2, 2021)

add a temp sensor to keep a eye on hydraulic oil running temp , most manufacturers make them rectangular for less heat retention. about 150-160f is about the max you want to see under heavy use.


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## sean donato (Mar 2, 2021)

I think you wedge will be fine, running a 5" cylinder myself. Broke a few till I reinforced the back side of it. My beam is lighter as well. I have a bolt on 4 way I use from time to time, but its next to useless in big wood, or if your having knot issues. My wedge is also more wedge shaped, and yours is more of a knife, so I think you'll have less of an issue then I had. Also if your 4 way can go flat with the table you'll have less issue and get more use out of the wedge. Mins is also fixed height, so that's been an issue from time to time. (For me) I too agree your ram is too short, but could have been mitigated by backing your wedge off a few inches from the full extended position. I have a 24" ram and a 4 inch stand off to the wedge, havent had issue with wood not splitting because of it. I also have a log lift, wouldnt be without it. Saved my back over the old splitter I used to borrow. I think you'll be quite happy with the 22gpm, I'm currently running 16gpm it's a tad slow but I cant work a whole lot faster then it goes anyway. I also echo the sentiment about auto cycle valves, had mega issues getting them consistent on a log processor I had worked on. Not worth the trouble imo. Auto return is all that's really needed.


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 3, 2021)

cookies said:


> add a temp sensor to keep a eye on hydraulic oil running temp , most manufacturers make them rectangular for less heat retention. about 150-160f is about the max you want to see under heavy use.


With a small engine running a 22 GPM pump I just can not see heat as an issue. On a warm day splitting all day could prove to be a worry. Easy remedy is just weld some tubing the length of the I beam. Thanks


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## Wood Hound (Mar 5, 2021)

Bump and did you order your pump yet??


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 5, 2021)

york said:


> Bump and did you order your pump yet??


Yes and maybe not...
I went ahead and ordered from Northern. The site said in store pick up next Monday. Now they are saying March 28 - April 28. I contacted customer service to see if I can cancel.


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## Wood Hound (Mar 5, 2021)

Hydraulic log splitter 2 stage pumps LOW $$$ PRICE


A complete line of log splitter pumps



www.splitez.com





Could check this guy..


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## Wood Hound (Mar 5, 2021)

or look here:









Log Splitter Pumps - Hydraulic Catalog - Cylinder Services Inc


LOGSPLITTERS - PRESSES - COMPACTORS NBC-8, 11, 16: Compact Aluminum Body Iron Front Cover Standard 4-Bolt Mount 1/2" Shaft w/ 1/8" Key CW Rotation 1" Suction tube, 1/2 npt outlet NBC-22, 28 Compact, Powerful Heavy cast iron body Standard 2-Bolt “A” Mount 5/8” Shaft w/ 5/32”...



www.cylinderservices.net


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 10, 2021)

Lets try this again.....

More work on the frame last weekend.







And was able to source a pump locally. Is it ok to mount the upside down? I would like to move the inlet to the side coolest to the tank.


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## Wood Hound (Mar 10, 2021)

Sure, can run pump, upside down..


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## blades (Mar 10, 2021)

just want the pump inlet lower than the tank outlet, or inline ( second best).


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 11, 2021)

blades said:


> just want the pump inlet lower than the tank outlet, or inline ( second best).


The pump will be pretty close to inline with the outlet on the tank. Definitely below the fluid line of the tank.


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## motorhead99999 (Mar 13, 2021)

I run a Honda gx390 with a 28 gpm 2stage pump and have never had a heat issue. I run a 4” cylinder on it but it is set up for a 6” which I have Incase I want to run that. I split a lot of hard maple, red oak, beach and hickory up to 28” range and have only stopped the splitter twice that I can recall and that was with a nasty headrow hard maple that had a zillion knots in it. I run a 4 way that just slips over why wedge on stuff in the 10-18” range after that it’s pointless. 
My feed line runs from the front of the tank down the edge of the I beam about 4-5’ thinking I would have a heat issue but never have had one. 


At some point I plan on adding onto my table towards the motor the length of my stroke so I don’t have to do the balancing act with huge rounds anymore. The reason for the table behind the wedge is because it is perfect height to go in my dump trailer so I just push the wood in there with the next split so I don’t have to touch it a bunch of times. It also piles the wood up on the ground nice if I don’t use the trailer it will push it up 4-5’ high without me touching it


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 15, 2021)

motorhead99999 said:


> I run a Honda gx390 with a 28 gpm 2stage pump and have never had a heat issue. I run a 4” cylinder on it but it is set up for a 6” which I have Incase I want to run that. I split a lot of hard maple, red oak, beach and hickory up to 28” range and have only stopped the splitter twice that I can recall and that was with a nasty headrow hard maple that had a zillion knots in it. I run a 4 way that just slips over why wedge on stuff in the 10-18” range after that it’s pointless.
> My feed line runs from the front of the tank down the edge of the I beam about 4-5’ thinking I would have a heat issue but never have had one. At some point I plan on adding onto my table towards the motor the length of my stroke so I don’t have to do the balancing act with huge rounds anymore. The reason for the table behind the wedge is because it is perfect height to go in my dump trailer so I just push the wood in there with the next split so I don’t have to touch it a bunch of times. It also piles the wood up on the ground nice if I don’t use the trailer it will push it up 4-5’ high without me touching it



The Big Bertha is so sweet!


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 15, 2021)

Worked on the log lift, out feed table and motor mount last weekend. My plan is to fabricate everything and then place the axle to get the weight in the right place.


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## Wood Hound (Mar 15, 2021)

Like the drill press...


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## lone wolf (Mar 15, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Worked on the log lift, out feed table and motor mount last weekend. My plan is to fabricate everything and then place the axle to get the weight in the right place.
> 
> View attachment 894963
> View attachment 894964


Looks heavy duty , might I suggest you weld some grips on the push plate face.


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 15, 2021)

On my splitter I have run into heat issues many times. On a 90F day splitting Oak which is not the toughest I handle. The fittings get so hot that when you touch them it will cause a blister on your hand. I have had to stop several times in the past four years. Most of the heavy duty spitting has been at 8,000 feet so heat was not as big as deal. At 4,000 feet working more than four hours will become too hot to continue. So have installed some tubing onto the back bone of the splitter to dissipate heat. Can not say how effective the system is because I have not split during extreme conditions lately. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 16, 2021)

york said:


> Like the drill press...


Thanks. It's one of those "how did I live without it before" tools. The annular cutters are in the same category.


lone wolf said:


> Looks heavy duty , might I suggest you weld some grips on the push plate face.


Will do. I was thinking 1/4 x 1/4 strips with teeth cut into them.


Ted Jenkins said:


> On my splitter I have run into heat issues many times. On a 90F day splitting Oak which is not the toughest I handle. The fittings get so hot that when you touch them it will cause a blister on your hand. I have had to stop several times in the past four years. Most of the heavy duty spitting has been at 8,000 feet so heat was not as big as deal. At 4,000 feet working more than four hours will become too hot to continue. So have installed some tubing onto the back bone of the splitter to dissipate heat. Can not say how effective the system is because I have not split during extreme conditions lately. Thanks


Is the tubing on the return side? 

I am probably going to order the Prince valves this week so I can start design work on the fluid distribution layout. I'm planning to get a single detent valve with power beyond for the main cylinder, and a separate double valve for the wedge and lift. 

Will both valve banks need a separate return line to the tank?
Will I need a check valve on either of the return lines?
Any advantage to getting the SAE thread over the NPT thread valves? 

-Jake


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 16, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Is the tubing on the return side? -Jake


It does not matter where or how tubing is welded to what as long as there is a large amount of surface to a large amount of the structure of the splitter. Heavy wall tubing tubing is easy to weld to the I beam thus because of a large amount of contact to the metal structure will transfer heat to the main body of the splitter. By doing this the entire chassis of the splitter becomes a radiator. If tubing is used it should be at least as large as the plumbing so not to cause resistance. Using return line would be easier than worrying about the high pressure side of system. Instead of using an I beam I stacked two 4'' sections of heavy wall tubing as the back bone. Thanks


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## Wood Hound (Mar 16, 2021)

I will be surprised if heat is a issue...


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## kevin j (Mar 16, 2021)

1. The power beyond valve will have a line to tank, and a line to the second valve. The second valve will have one line to tank.
2. What do you mean by check in return? No checks needed, unless you mean to prevent back drain of filters when changing elements. I would not put any checks in. More parts to fail. And they do...
3. Sae and JIC and ORFS only for me. NPT sucks. Have to be taped or doped, and then they leak. Never point the right direction, too loose, then one more turn can crack housings and ports. NPSM with swivels are not so bad, but the port still has to have NPT. Of you start right out with oring ports, you can avoid all the NPT as much as possible. Filters, cylinders, pumps etc in the consumer world are usually NPT. Industrial world, very few NPT left.


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## sean donato (Mar 16, 2021)

My total system capacity is under 10 gallons on my set up, even working it through the nasty knotted up stuff on a 100* day I've never had issues with heat. Even on equipment with water to hydro coolers temps in the 180-210*f range are perfectly acceptable and wont damage the equipment. And I mean to tell you you wont be able to touch a fitting. The free boiling point of most hydro fluids is around 250*f. And even at that temp your orings and seals will suffer more then anything. Not saying a cooler or heat sink of some sort isnt a bad idea, but ymir highly doubt your getting those temps with a splitter.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 17, 2021)

kevin j said:


> 1. The power beyond valve will have a line to tank, and a line to the second valve. The second valve will have one line to tank.
> 2. What do you mean by check in return? No checks needed, unless you mean to prevent back drain of filters when changing elements. I would not put any checks in. More parts to fail. And they do...
> 3. Sae and JIC and ORFS only for me. NPT sucks. Have to be taped or doped, and then they leak. Never point the right direction, too loose, then one more turn can crack housings and ports. NPSM with swivels are not so bad, but the port still has to have NPT. Of you start right out with oring ports, you can avoid all the NPT as much as possible. Filters, cylinders, pumps etc in the consumer world are usually NPT. Industrial world, very few NPT left.



Ok. So there will be two return lines to the tank. Is it ok to combine the two in a "T" before the filter? I guess I was wondering if check valve would be needed on one of the return lines to prevent back pressure in a valve body when the other body is engaged. But it sounds like the return line will flow to the tank since its the path of least resistance. 

I hear you on the NPT. I ordered good weldable bungs for the tank from McMaster hoping to have less issues, but the 2" that goes to the pump is still leaking. Sounds like the SAE is the way to go.


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## kevin j (Mar 17, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Ok. So there will be two return lines to the tank. Is it ok to combine the two in a "T" before the filter? I guess I was wondering if check valve would be needed on one of the return lines to prevent back pressure in a valve body when the other body is engaged. But it sounds like the return line will flow to the tank since its the path of least resistance.
> 
> I hear you on the NPT. I ordered good weldable bungs for the tank from McMaster hoping to have less issues, but the 2" that goes to the pump is still leaking. Sounds like the SAE is the way to go.





JakefromCharlotte said:


> you can tie them together. Typically it’s done if they’re close together the tank line of the power beyond valve tees into the tank line of the second valve close by and then they go back to the filter into the tank. There isn’t much pressure in the tank line other than maybe 20-50 psi back pressure. The power beyond line does see full pressure when the second valve is loaded and the first valve is in neutral.


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## sean donato (Mar 17, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Ok. So there will be two return lines to the tank. Is it ok to combine the two in a "T" before the filter? I guess I was wondering if check valve would be needed on one of the return lines to prevent back pressure in a valve body when the other body is engaged. But it sounds like the return line will flow to the tank since its the path of least resistance.
> 
> I hear you on the NPT. I ordered good weldable bungs for the tank from McMaster hoping to have less issues, but the 2" that goes to the pump is still leaking. Sounds like the SAE is the way to go.


No check valves needed on the return. I have my log lift valve power beyond to the cylinder. Both returns go into a Y fitting I made up. Then it returns to the filter.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 22, 2021)

Made a little progress on the splitter last weekend. Mostly turning parts for the pump mount. I also made and adapter plate to mount the engine to the milling machine to cut the keyway.

The valve saga continues.... apparently log splitters are really popular and most places are sold out of the RD style of Prince valves.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Mar 30, 2021)

Pulled the trigger on some valves last weekend. I ended up buying them from Northern Tool to avoid the shipping fees. PLUS....what I really wanted was out of stock at Surplus Center.
Went with the RD52... for the lift and wedge, then using the power beyond, feeding the LS 3000 valve for the main cylinder. I hope the power beyond doesn't rob too much flow before it gets to the LS valve.
Also finish up the pump adapter and cut the keyway for the motor shaft.


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## Wood Hound (Mar 31, 2021)

You did nice job on the steel adapter, much better than the Al stuff that comes from China..


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## kevin j (Mar 31, 2021)

You’ll be good Power beyond will not rob any flow. That’s one point of that design. When it’s in neutral the full input flow goes out the power beyond port onto the second valve. It’s only when you’re operating a function in that section that The second valve is affected. 
What a wonderful shop machinery assortment


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 5, 2021)

Assembled the major components in an attempt to get the balance right for axel placement. My preference would be to mount the axle between the tank and the lift so it doesn't get too wide, but I don't think I'm that lucky. Getting closer!


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## Wood Hound (Apr 11, 2021)

Bump and how did the axle turn out ??


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 11, 2021)

Don't g


JakefromCharlotte said:


> Assembled the major components in an attempt to get the balance right for axel placement. My preference would be to mount the axle between the tank and the lift so it doesn't get too wide, but I don't think I'm that lucky. Getting closer!
> 
> View attachment 899349
> 
> Don't get too hung up on balance, you want to be able to work comfortably on one side. A little tongue weight is good anyway.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 11, 2021)

It's coming along. I figured I needed to get the major components finished and mounted so I could get some idea about the balance of this thing. Last up were the valves.






I used a hanging scale and the forklift to pick it up and slowly moved a piece of angle iron towards the rear. I will have about 190lbs on the tongue. Also filled the tank for the first time. No leaks and I couldn't be happier. 



Once I had the weights, I quickly mocked up some axle braces in Fusion 360. I'm using some scrap 5" .25" wall square tubing. I can't run a continuous axle because of the wedge lift cylinder under the frame. I picked up this moblie home axle a while back. It has new tires which is nice. I will weld the "L Braces" to the frame, cut the old axle, weld that to a .5" plate, them bolt the axle and plate to the L Brace.


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 11, 2021)

Major problem will be how far will it be towed as you will not be able to tow it far on mobile home axles. The tires require about 60 PSI minimum to stay inflated. The tires do not make a smooth ride. I travel rough roads roads so suspension is a must. Once you have completed your project I hope that you have major amounts of wood to process. Thanks


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## Wood Hound (Apr 12, 2021)

Well, Jake knows when to stop welding and start drilling and use bolts, like it...


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 12, 2021)

I'm thinking about scraping the solid axle idea and designing some sort of setup like this. Scouring CL for truck struts.....


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## Wood Hound (Apr 12, 2021)

What do you think about Torsion half axles..


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 12, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> What do you think about Torsion half axles..


I'm also looking at these:
FLEXRIDE 3500

But the cheapskate in me is gluten for punishment.

Do you think the solid axle will give me trouble?
Most of the production units are solid. Even the high-end "Professional" models.

Is this a case over overthinking?.......


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## Wood Hound (Apr 12, 2021)

If this machine is at your wood lot 99 % of the time, i would not put an suspension under it...


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## Wood Hound (Apr 12, 2021)

Site, acting up again...


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## rancher2 (Apr 12, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> I'm also looking at these:
> FLEXRIDE 3500
> 
> But the cheapskate in me is gluten for punishment.
> ...


Spend the extra money now and put the Flexride 3500 on it. If you don't you will wish you did later when you want to road it some. I have those on a tow behind back hoe and it sure makes it road a lot better than a solid axle. I understand it a fair amount of money but you are probably going to have this splitter for a long time.


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## sean donato (Apr 12, 2021)

FWIW my splitter gets towed quite a bit between, my place, dad, uncle and brothers houses. Cant say I once went "gee I sure wish I put suspension under the axle." Dont get me wrong, It doesnt really go far, or go often, but it's made more then one hour+ trip on the highway behind the truck.


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## Wood Hound (Apr 15, 2021)

My machine has a torsion axle and is at the working end-this machine is road worthy and you can back it up...


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 15, 2021)

Setting up suspension took some time but was a requirement in my case. If a OP only has to travel on good road with an occasional dirt road then a solid axle will work fine. Mobile home axles can be brutal in that they require high pressures to stay inflated. As a compromise get a different hub that will accept standard automotive tires with will have some give and take. I have a relatively simple swing arm with a coil spring. Using shock or not is an option. Towing on the free way is not an issue at all so for me it is very worth while option. Some times the road to the timber are very tough. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 16, 2021)

You just have to laugh sometimes about a decision that makes your head spin. When I started this many months ago, I went to Northern Tool and bought some tires, hubs, and shafts. Soon I realized this thing was going to be really heavy and returned everything. I then bought this 3500 lbs. axle off FB for $200. The tires are new, the bearings are loose or completely shot. 

The high pressure tires are a problem for sure.

Part of me wants to wrap this up and weld the axle solid with what I have on hand. But.....the other side of me loves to make something out of scrap and learn along the way. Most of the time I learn what not to do.

I found these Struts on CL near my house: 
_Removed from 2018 Ford f150 Platinum Supercrew off-road with 4000 miles. 
Fits Ford F-150 5.0 liter 2015-2020._





I wonder if I could mount these horizontally from the beam to the wheel? 

How can I measure how much they will compress with weight?


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## psuiewalsh (Apr 16, 2021)

Can you check specs on the coils? Maybe change to suit your weight with aftermarket?


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## psuiewalsh (Apr 16, 2021)

This was for 250 but probably for 150 somewhere.


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## CUCV (Apr 16, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> My machine has a torsion axle and is at the working end-this machine is road worthy and you can back it up...


Wood Hound, Can you post up some more pictures of your splitter? How much tongue weight does your splitter have with the axles all the way back? Cool idea!


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## Wood Hound (Apr 16, 2021)

New, this machine had a conveyor on the working end, so Tongue weight was not too bad-now it is heavy, not sure how much-did not like the attached conveyor...
Not sure of tongue weight..
Jake, not trying to hijack this thread-just want to show you a good axle setup-is not soft and will give good support for log lift...


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## bigbadbob (Apr 16, 2021)

Great thread,, subscribed.
My build,, simple unit GX390 22gpm 5x24, after 4 hours splitting fir it gets warm to touch on a 70f day 15 gallons resoviour
LOl the tow ball is just sitting there, I stuff it in the hitch and lock it.


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## sean donato (Apr 16, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> New, this machine had a conveyor on the working end, so Tongue weight was not too bad-now it is heavy, not sure how much-did not like the attached conveyor...
> Not sure of tongue weight..
> Jake, not trying to hijack this thread-just want to show you a good axle setup-is not soft and will give good support for log lift...


I have a stabilizer jack foe the lift side of my splitter. Even with a solid axle, the tire would squish down pretty good with a big round on it. Works well.


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 16, 2021)

If you have some shocks and springs use them. Position shock spring at least a foot back from axle stub so that the bottom end can be moved for adjustment. Bottom end moved out towards the tire and hub will give a more firm ride and move it inward will give a more plush ride. Calculations are just plain not relevant so do not bother. Ask me how I know. Too many things to take in to consideration so a good guess will work fine. Once again decide if suspension is necessary then if it is plan on it. I used some leaf spring bushings on my pivoting end which is insolated with rubber. It made the ride a little smoother but the real reason was for wear and I had them laying around. Two pieces of square tubing about 20'' long will be enough for either side. Or use what ever you have. So 4 pieces of tubing 4 bushings of some kind and then a perch on both sides will get you done. For me the biggest issue has been for me is that I can use the freeway with no problem. Other wise the thing would bounce around to the point that it seemed ready for an accident. Thanks


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## kyle1! (Apr 16, 2021)

I would say those struts/shocks are going to be too much for your splitter and it is going to ride like a solid axle anyway.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 16, 2021)

Went to look at the struts. The CL lady sent me the address. 

I did a double take.

Pulled up to a 7 figure house in one of Charlotte's hottest neighborhoods. She was cool as a cucumber and invited me in. I looked at them and she said, " If you want them , take em".
She also had the muffler off the truck. That thing was huge. Her husband bought the truck, put on a lift and sold it. There was a new Model X in the driveway.

Free is great , because this might not work. 

Sort of the configuration I will shot for. But I think I will need to redesign the wheel frame.

Off to Fusion.....


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## cantoo (Apr 16, 2021)

I run mobile home axles on mine and have no issue. I also have mine really heavy on the rear end because I plan to add a lift there later. I have a jack stand on the back to keep it in place.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 17, 2021)

cantoo said:


> I run mobile home axles on mine and have no issue. I also have mine really heavy on the rear end because I plan to add a lift there later. I have a jack stand on the back to keep it in place.


That is nice! Can you post some pics of the valve / hose arraignment? 

What after the silver cubes on the valve handles?


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 18, 2021)

I removed the springs from the struts and put them under the lift. The springs dropped 1.75". So I worked on a mockup using the spring only. This is the rough idea I came up. This way I can keep and modify the parts I already made.


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## Wood Hound (Apr 18, 2021)

Of course, i am watching...


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 18, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> I removed the springs from the struts and put them under the lift. The springs dropped 1.75". So I worked on a mockup using the spring only. This is the rough idea I came up. This way I can keep and modify the parts I already made.
> View attachment 901908


Not a bad concept. You do need to know that your pivoting point needs to be at least 8'' wide otherwise any obstruction in the road will tear up your pivoting point. If you shorten your springs it will increase their rates. I suspect you might want to cut your springs in half and posibly double them up. My experienc says that if you have 4'' of travel you will be pleased. You will not know for sure until you take a little test drive. Thanks


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## cantoo (Apr 18, 2021)

Jake, there are a few pictures in this thread of my orange splitter. Not much detail on the hoses though. I just googled how to plumb it all together and it works. https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/scrounging-firewood.252988/page-1904#post-6819048


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 20, 2021)

Did some research on the truck springs. Looks like their rate is 600 LBS per inch. To measure the drop, I hitched the splitter to the trailer ball and put the two springs under the beam where the axle will be. The springs compressed 1.75", so that puts the splitter 2100 LBS. I thought it was 1900 LBS, but I guess there might be some error in my math. 

I was planning to cut coils out of the springs to get the right height, but I read that cutting the coils actually increases the spring rate. 
So, a higher spring rate = rougher ride?

Since cost springs are mounted perpendicular to the axle and I plan to mount them parallel, will the axle act more like a lever since the pivot point is so close together? Will this increase the load on the spring? Tying to figure this out so I don't have to cut the springs.

I also got the rear truck shocks out of the deal, would it be worth integrating them into the setup?


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## Wood Hound (Apr 20, 2021)

You could always add the shocks later, if they are needed, i would try to do without them...


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 20, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Did some research on the truck springs. Looks like their rate is 600 LBS per inch. To measure the drop, I hitched the splitter to the trailer ball and put the two springs under the beam where the axle will be. The springs compressed 1.75", so that puts the splitter 2100 LBS. I thought it was 1900 LBS, but I guess there might be some error in my math.
> 
> I was planning to cut coils out of the springs to get the right height, but I read that cutting the coils actually increases the spring rate.
> So, a higher spring rate = rougher ride?
> ...


I do not believe this is as complicated as you think. You are caught up in leverage ratios. The closer you put your springs to the pivot point the more leverage there will be or the farther you attach springs from pivot point less leverage. Do you have no self service wrecking yards around. A pair of springs cost me $25. One time springs we too stiff not a problem just got the hand grinder out and shaved about 25% off ran very plush. My projects always take more time away from what I need to get done so I plan on ways to achieve results fast as possible. My thought was double them up as it will take no space than one alone. A short section of round tubing is all that is needed to put each end it and start splitting. Thanks


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## kevin j (Apr 21, 2021)

Moments about the pivot point of the axle will all balance out. The weight of the splitter on the tire times the perpendicular distance to the pivot point is a moment in one direction. The perpendicular distance to the center of the spring times the spring force is the opposing moment. so if you take tire distance times weight and divide by distance up to the Spring center line that’ll give you a force at the spring. the further you go out with the spring the lower the force in the spring, so it will effectively get stiffer the further out you put the spring. The closer you bring the spring to the pivot point the more leverage it has on the spring. Cutting coils off the spring and shortening will make it stiffer in lbf per inch of deflection because there is less effective length of the steel wire to deflect


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## sean donato (Apr 21, 2021)

I think you're over thinking I as well. I'll put it in perspective, they hold up the front of a 5k+lb pickup truck, that has about 70% (+or-) hung over the front, that's the springs you have are responsible for holding up. They are pretty over kill for you situation, but will still give you a dampening effect. Yes cutting the coil increases the spring rate. I'm also going to toss out there, your current axle design has too small of a pivot, and lots of leverage for the wheel to put tremendous side load and twist to the pivot point. Hence why you see an upper and lower control arms in side hinge set ups. You would be better off keeping a solid axle and doing some sort of 3 link set up with the springs. Would keep it simple, and allow for full use of the strut/spring assembly.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Apr 26, 2021)

Mounting the wheels is kicking my butt....
I feel like I spent all weekend making the spring keepers that I saw on a Jeep forum.


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 26, 2021)

Very beautiful fabrication from my point of view. However when I am putting something together that I am not sure how it is ending up I do not measure just start welding. Your only positive point is that being well made all that you will have to do is maybe change springs a little or shave them down a bit. I do not think it is under engineered so with some tuning you will not have to address it again. Thanks


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## Wood Hound (Apr 26, 2021)

A lot of work, right there..


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 2, 2021)

The Titanic made it further on her maiden voyage......


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## Wood Hound (May 2, 2021)

Well sorry about that-looks really green down there..


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## Ted Jenkins (May 2, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> The Titanic made it further on her maiden voyage......
> 
> View attachment 904660


It still looks good but just a little fine tuning might be in order. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 3, 2021)

This is the what I was afraid of in post #81. Funny thing was, it was sitting really high before I hitched it up. Obviously there is more force on the spring in this configuration. 

The plan: Use a Harbor Freight 20 Ton Hydraulic Short Body Ram and a hydraulic pressure gauge to measure how much force we are dealing with, and then measure the spring. Hopefully, I can then cut the spring down and move the mount closer to the I-Beam to get the right balance. One thing I did notice was, there is a lot move weight on the tank side.


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## Wood Hound (May 3, 2021)

Me again, instead of springs how about truck bump stops???


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## Ted Jenkins (May 3, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> This is the what I was afraid of in post #81. Funny thing was, it was sitting really high before I hitched it up. Obviously there is more force on the spring in this configuration.
> 
> The plan: Use a Harbor Freight 20 Ton Hydraulic Short Body Ram and a hydraulic pressure gauge to measure how much force we are dealing with, and then measure the spring. Hopefully, I can then cut the spring down and move the mount closer to the I-Beam to get the right balance. One thing I did notice was, there is a lot move weight on the tank side.
> View attachment 904786
> ...


I found this to be hilarious not because you made a miscalculation but because Most of us have been there. We could spend plenty of time debating my blunders but it would only give us all chuckle. One thing you did not expect was your linkage has quite a bit of leverage so it will take a fairly stiff spring to compensate. I would think an automotive coil spring would meet your needs. Most springs are in the range of 1500 lbs after the first inch. If you want to experiment and you have materials available. Take a spring and cut it to fit your mounting which appears to be 30 to 50% shorter than the original length which will be in the neighborhood of 3,000 lbs the first inch. Likely that will work but probably too stiff. This will give you and idea of what you need. You can always grind the out side of the spring to make it softer but that probably will not make you happy. You are almost in the final stages of taking on a new challenge. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 3, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Me again, instead of springs how about truck bump stops???


Thats a good idea. Maybe semi trailer kind?


Ted Jenkins said:


> I found this to be hilarious not because you made a miscalculation but because Most of us have been there. We could spend plenty of time debating my blunders but it would only give us all chuckle. One thing you did not expect was your linkage has quite a bit of leverage so it will take a fairly stiff spring to compensate. I would think an automotive coil spring would meet your needs. Most springs are in the range of 1500 lbs after the first inch. If you want to experiment and you have materials available. Take a spring and cut it to fit your mounting which appears to be 30 to 50% shorter than the original length which will be in the neighborhood of 3,000 lbs the first inch. Likely that will work but probably too stiff. This will give you and idea of what you need. You can always grind the out side of the spring to make it softer but that probably will not make you happy. You are almost in the final stages of taking on a new challenge. Thanks


There a many ways to learn and mistakes happen. I really wondered if having the spring that close to the pivot would cause problems, and now I know for sure.

Bought a ram from Harbor Freight and I have a couple hydraulic gauges to experiment with. Apparently getting the air out of the ram is a struggle. I plan to use a T and put a vacuum on it, somehow. Then plug the hole.

_*Force Gauge *_

1, Measure the force on each side of the splitter at the axles.
2, Experiment with cutting the springs down to get the right pressure.
3, Make new mouthing plate for spring on axles.
4, Test
5, Give up and weld it solid


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## Wood Hound (May 3, 2021)

You got to look into these bumps stops- put them on my truck and springs are no match...



https://videos.etrailer.com/static/images/video/Demo-Timbren-Vehicle-Suspension-TABSTOFLC1A.webm


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## kevin j (May 4, 2021)

It’s all part of the R&D process. As the saying goes, if we knew what we were doing it wouldn’t be research. I think part of the issue is that the force point against the spring is not a pivot. It is tilting which causes the spring to bind and buckle. it’s not truly acting as a compression spring at that point so the normal spring calculations don’t apply.


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 4, 2021)

kevin j said:


> It’s all part of the R&D process. As the saying goes, if we knew what we were doing it wouldn’t be research. I think part of the issue is that the force point against the spring is not a pivot. It is tilting which causes the spring to bind and buckle. it’s not truly acting as a compression spring at that point so the normal spring calculations don’t apply.


True, the spring is bending a lot in the picture, but that is the extreme limit. I was hoping for 6" of travel total, this is more like 20". I thought the spring would compress about 2" total at a static load. This will be an easy problem to solve with the gauge. Figuring out a way to mount the spring and gauge to the shop press will be the hardest part. If I had a CNC mill I could crank out a sloped bracket to follow the contour of the spring. But, sadly I'm the CNC....


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## Backyard Lumberjack (May 4, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> 5, Give up and weld it solid


have to admit... i was wondering why it wasn't solid in the first place? good tires with a little less air pressure seems to me would be suspension enuff! air up for work bleed for hiway running or off road access... if i was pulling a splitter on roadway... i'd slow down for sure.

in any event, other than the boilerplate shipyard approach... nice job! i like seeing your craftsmanship over all! 

what will it be? a 100T splitter?


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 5, 2021)

The splitter should be a 24 ton, according to the math. A solid axle is defiantly on the radar.


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## rancher2 (May 5, 2021)

A fellow I used to worked with called this type of building engineering on the fly. If I were you at this point I would take out the coil spring and weld a heavy walled piece of pipe in its place and call it good. If and when you tow it vary far just lower the tire air pressure down. Looks to be a heavy built splitter.


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## Wood Hound (May 6, 2021)

Jake, check out this video, about 3/4 the way thru, how he did his axle, thanks...


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 6, 2021)

A sliding axle? Huh....


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## Wood Hound (May 6, 2021)

I find this very interesting-at least the part that it is not welded in place-think about this....


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## sean donato (May 6, 2021)

Not any different then the tandems on a trailer. Just a few pins hold them in place. Big wedge(landall) trailers slide hydraulically slide the tandems to lower the rear of the trailer to the ground.


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 17, 2021)

Ugh.... Sprung axles 2.0 didn't work....
I measured the force on each side and came up with :









Then I mounted the springs on the press and cut them down to match the pressure. I was shooting for 2 inches of compression for the static load.




Made some buckets to hold the springs:




And it didn't work.... For some reason (maybe depression) I didn't get a pic of it compressing. With the full weight, it compressed the spring until the coils touched each other.





Now I'm mad. 

3.0 I think I have the whole spring assembly too close to the pivot point of the axle. I am trying to figure out an outrigger design to mount the spring vertically closer to the wheel.

4.0 Weld it solid with a 3.5" piece of pipe


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## rancher2 (May 17, 2021)

I would just go with 4.0 and call it good if your splitter height is where you want it.


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## Ted Jenkins (May 17, 2021)

I am very sorry about your frustration as most of us have been there. One thing that might be a band aid fix is to put two springs together in the same cage. The problem you decided was important that you needed some suspension. I cannot haul a splitter with out suspension in my area. One time I got stopped by the high way patrol telling me that I cannot continue hauling splitter. I typically put my splitter on another trailer which was fine. Now with suspension the splitter is no problem. As you have indicated the leverage on your springs is tremendous. If you were not using mobile home tires that are very stiff then you might be able to go with out some suspension. It looks like to me that you are very close to having this issue solved. Moving your pivit point a couple of inches down below the I beam could do wonders. I really love your fabrication effort as it is first class. I often do not do that kind of quality because I am so often in a hurry. After solving all issues I often come back to grind edges of welds and paint but some times that takes much time. I expect you will get it just right. Thanks


































dowonders


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## speeco (May 17, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> I find this very interesting-at least the part that it is not welded in place-think about this....


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## Wood Hound (May 18, 2021)

I would use this on another project, this axle set up...Rethink the axle, you will never be happy with it..

The old saying, KISS


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## Ted Jenkins (May 18, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> I would use this on another project, this axle set up...Rethink the axle, you will never be happy with it..
> 
> The old saying, KISS


I agree at least some what. I think the design aspects have some flaws. However the project looks better than good. I am speaking from an experienced mechanical engineer's point of view. To scrap the whole project because of some flaws also seems wrong. I would think that all that needs to be done is to some how reduce the leverage ratio with out starting over. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 18, 2021)

Option 2.5

Heavy duty trailer leaf springs!!! From Facebook Marketplace.



Mounted like this. (Not actual spring size, just some random 3D model I downloaded)




I'm feeling good about this. The leaf spring will be easier to mount and adjust. Looks like he has 5 or 6 of them, so I could even double them up.

His ad says "6 leaf spring assembly for 6000 lb axle weight".


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## Wood Hound (May 18, 2021)

Well, i will tell you one thing, if this works, it is a first...


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## triptester (May 18, 2021)

It looks like the swing arm would rise over the leaf spring. Instead of pivoting off the beam consider a solid arm off the beam with a swing arm off the end similar to torsion suspension.


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 18, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Well, i will tell you one thing, if this works, it is a first...


Let's find out together!!


triptester said:


> It looks like the swing arm would rise over the leaf spring. Instead of pivoting off the beam consider a solid arm off the beam with a swing arm off the end similar to torsion suspension.


The pic above is a crude mock up. I am thinking about making a mount that will let me use two springs, side by side on each side. On the axle, I will make a wide flat bar welded solid to press against the springs. With this approach I will be able to adjust the preload with the length of the trailing arms for the spring. 

It would be great if I could use u-bolts to connect the axle to the spring instead of free floating


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## Ted Jenkins (May 19, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Option 2.5
> 
> Heavy duty trailer leaf springs!!! From Facebook Marketplace.
> View attachment 907605
> ...


OK Jake what are you using for a CAD program. Your 3 D looks nice. I have some programs that are twenty years old but still use them. I would have made the coil springs work but leaf springs will work too. Very very easy to adjust though. I would say you are one h**l of an engineer. I likely would have not thought out side the box as far as you did. Hopefully you will describe a big smile soon. Thanks


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## cumminstinkerer (May 19, 2021)

@Ted Jenkins he is a heck of an engineer, thinking outside the box is poor farm kids like me do so i get that, go check out m thread about m new to me econoburn boiler and the BS I went through to get it dialed in over on another forum, I know the mods don't like it much so h***h. com not sure I posted much on here with that battle, things got busy and I wasn't posting much.


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 22, 2021)

Worked on the splitter a little today after I came back from the equipment auction looking at this:



It was way too big and way too expensive. It also had a blown motor....

When I got back I cut out some parts to mount the leaf springs









I plan to weld it together tomorrow and give it a test.


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 24, 2021)

It worked!! The wheels before we started moving are angled a lot because the brackets are not fully welded:



Once we started moving the wheels settled down:


Checked with a digital level, the motor side has 2 degrees of positive camber, and the tank side has .5 degrees positive. I was shooting for 1 degree, so I will grind a little off the motor side and shim a little on the tank side. 
I drove it around the block and over a few speed bumps and it seems to work. You can see some flex in the springs for sure, maybe 1 inch. 











Now I can work on the long list of small items to finish this up.


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## Wood Hound (May 24, 2021)

Good for you-it worked out for you-paint it an accent color, starting to like it....


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## Ted Jenkins (May 24, 2021)

Good for you. I would extend the axles just bit as it will widen the tract a bit to make it more stable. Dry slide would lessen the squeaking that will likely take place. Or a little grease will work too just a little more messy. At any rate you can now work towards splitting wood. I have my share of projects trying to move forward. Thanks


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## Wood Hound (May 25, 2021)

Jake, have you thought at all about the pluming, for this machine ??


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 25, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Jake, have you thought at all about the pluming, for this machine ??


I have thought about it a little too much. My plan is to layout the hoses with scrap garden hose to get the clamping points figured out. 

The main cylinder is a challenge. I will need a complete 180 to feed it from the valves. 




I am toying with the idea of building a tube bender like the JD:



But then I saw this guys design on Youtube:





It appears his design is based loosely on commercial benders. (They use a chain and )




A tube bender is a project I have wanted to build for years. I'm just not sure it is worth it for two bends 18" long.....


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## Wood Hound (May 26, 2021)

Has this cyl. been tested ? 5 in. with it`s short stroke, it`s a keeper-think i would put some money in it-i would change the ports-they do it every day...


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## sean donato (May 26, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Has this cyl. been tested ? 5 in. with it`s short stroke, it`s a keeper-think i would put some money in it-i would change the ports-they do it every day...


Agreed would never want a 180 if possible to avoid it. They also look like smallish fittings for any decent flow rating. Not terrible hard for someone with your skillset to cut off and weld new fittings on.


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 26, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Has this cyl. been tested ? 5 in. with it`s short stroke, it`s a keeper-think i would put some money in it-i would change the ports-they do it every day...



I repacked it before starting the build and hooked it up to my Bobcat. Seemed to work.....



sean donato said:


> Agreed would never want a 180 if possible to avoid it. They also look like smallish fittings for any decent flow rating. Not terrible hard for someone with your skillset to cut off and weld new fittings on.


I believe they are SAE 14 fittings. I would be more comfortable if I could TIG weld them. I bought some 3/4" hydraulic tube and was thinking about bending that into the "u"


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## Wood Hound (May 26, 2021)

Found this. try this file, but SAE 14 is 1 and 3/16 big...



https://brennaninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BrennanThreadChart.pdf


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## sean donato (May 26, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Found this. File will not open, but SAE 14 is 1 and 3/16 big...


-14 is 14/16 or 7/8" tube size, the thread size is irrelevant, however it is larger then what I was guessing was on it. Hard to scale based on the picture, tubes look small. 


JakefromCharlotte said:


> I repacked it before starting the build and hooked it up to my Bobcat. Seemed to work.....
> 
> 
> I believe they are SAE 14 fittings. I would be more comfortable if I could TIG weld them. I bought some 3/4" hydraulic tube and was thinking about bending that into the "u"


I have -10 on my 5" cylinder on my splitter, I've often thought about bumping the fitting size up, but think I'm fine with the current pump flow I have. Hadn't realized you were -14 already. I'd still try to avoid the u bends I possible. If nothing else by redoing the fittings to better angles/ size your eliminating 1 failure point, and 2 areas that arnt conducive to nice flow. I've always been told to minimize 90+ degree bends in fluid systems if it can be avoided. 
Take for example the kubota ssv series skid steer. Lots of foot room, because they went out of their way to rout the hydraulics under and to the side, lots of tight, unneeded bends in the tubing, it's noisy and creates unneeded heat. Which they know about, but wanted more operator comfort. In this case, I'd be making it as simple as possible. There would be no reason why a mig wouldn't be sufficient for the task. That's all the hydro shops around me have, and I've had them change fittings on cylinders enough times already.


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## Ted Jenkins (May 26, 2021)

On most of my stuff I use -14 or 3/4. I have carried through with that on my 28 GPM set up too. Which is probably wrong it should be 1" I plan on changing it to be better. With engines putting out 12 HP or less I do not think there would be any problem. I have gone to the wrecking yard many times in the heavy duty section to find 1/2 to 1'' hoses. Often there will be some reusable fittings. I do not pay more than $2 per hose so with an assortment it is easy to mock up a setup and adjust using the variation of the adjustable fittings. Along with the reusable fitting and the pressed fittings one can get the measurement exact. Thanks


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 27, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Found this. try this file, but SAE 14 is 1 and 3/16 big...
> 
> 
> 
> https://brennaninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BrennanThreadChart.pdf


I'm sorry, I was guessing which caps I bought, the fittings are #12.


sean donato said:


> There would be no reason why a mig wouldn't be sufficient for the task. That's all the hydro shops around me have, and I've had them change fittings on cylinders enough times already.



I struggle with leaks when welding pipes....

One problem I want to tackle is to rotate the fixed mounting yoke on the two small cylinder 90 degrees. That way the hoses can enter from the side. The yokes appear to be cast, but they are obviously welded to the main tube. My plan was cut off the lobes and re-weld them 90 degrees off. That way I don't disturb the seal. Welding cast is sketchy, but I don't think they a brazed originally.


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## Wood Hound (May 27, 2021)

Mine are like that also, i just let them hang down...


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## Wood Hound (May 27, 2021)




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## JakefromCharlotte (May 27, 2021)

Nice log lift. How do you stow it for travel.

I think my hoses might be lower....


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## Wood Hound (May 27, 2021)

Use a strap..


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## sean donato (May 27, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Use a strap..


Lol same thing I do with mine, my lift lines also hang off the bottom, but when stowed fully upright they stick out the side.


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## Wood Hound (May 29, 2021)

I can see why now, you do not flip the cyl. 180°


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## dave_dj1 (May 29, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> I'm sorry, I was guessing which caps I bought, the fittings are #12.
> 
> 
> I struggle with leaks when welding pipes....
> ...


What is your reason for wanting to do this? Let the hoses come off the top, use 90's if you want. 
People say that 90's cause heat build up but unless you plan on running that splitter 8 hrs a day I wouldn't worry about it. I've seen a lot of commercial made equipment with plenty of 90's that get used way harder than any splitter.


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## Wood Hound (May 30, 2021)

Some reading for all of us:



StackPath





https://www.daycoproducts.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/20/f26e2da1bac59bc3bc527965b7bf0f34/files/hydraulicandspecialtyhosetrainingprogram2017.pdf


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## JakefromCharlotte (May 30, 2021)

dave_dj1 said:


> What is your reason for wanting to do this? Let the hoses come off the top, use 90's if you want.
> People say that 90's cause heat build up but unless you plan on running that splitter 8 hrs a day I wouldn't worry about it. I've seen a lot of commercial made equipment with plenty of 90's that get used way harder than any splitter.


Planning to use long sweep elbows for the cylinder.


Wood Hound said:


> Some reading for all of us:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good info in there. 

But, the filter on the suction side?




I have this filter on the tank right before the pump :
Slimline Suction Strainer


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## Wood Hound (May 30, 2021)

That's ok, as long as it can handle your 22 GPM flow...


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## sean donato (May 30, 2021)

Seen the filter on both the suction and return. Normally there is at least a suction screen before the pump.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jun 1, 2021)

Made a few sparks this weekend. I spent a lot of time getting the ride height right and equal for both wheels. Ended up having to add 1.65" to the stabilizer legs. Also, I cut the cylinders to rotate the fittings for hoses, and worked on the log lift. I put a couple hinges on it so it will fold for transport. Now I need to figure out a way to lock it in the up position.


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## Wood Hound (Jun 1, 2021)

Could lock it up, with the hydraulic method, by using an inline valve, this is what Brute Force does-also this valve can be used to control the flow to the lift cylinder...


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jun 1, 2021)

Wood Hound said:


> Could lock it up, with the hydraulic method, by using an inline valve, this is what Brute Force does-also this valve can be used to control the flow to the lift cylinder...


The ram is all the way down. I put hinges in the middle. I am thinking about adding a chain to it with a key-hole for the chain to go through.


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## Wood Hound (Jun 12, 2021)

Bump and how is this project doing ?


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jun 12, 2021)

I am back at it! This weekend's project is a down and dirty quick build of a tube bender using scrap metal I have on hand. Fingers crossed....




We spent last weekend in the mountains eating ice cream and riding the train at Tweetsie. Also, I found a tow rig.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jun 21, 2021)

Slow progress on the tube bender. Boy I hope it works.....


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## Wood Hound (Jun 21, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Slow progress on the tube bender. Boy I hope it works.....
> 
> View attachment 913966
> 
> View attachment 913967


You may be on to something, using metal, because ya can`t get that tight radius with 4100# hose.....


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jun 27, 2021)

Finished the tube bender. It takes a good amount of effort to bend the 3/4". But the results are great! A lot better than my Harbor Freight Pipe Kinker. Now I can get back to working on the actual machine.....





I think I will change the way the clamp works. Right now its just one bolt, but it would be better if it could slide towards the tube with a bolt pushing on it to keep pressure on the clamp.


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## Wood Hound (Jun 28, 2021)

Well, the use of tube is all new for me, so i will just hang in here..


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jul 10, 2021)

Back it! I am working on the hydraulic tubes this weekend and it occurred to me I don't know how oil flows out of the valves. The Prince info online didn't help much...
Can anyone tell me which port is pressurized when you pull the handle forward? (splitting the log)


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## Wood Hound (Jul 10, 2021)

Hook up your air hose to inlet port, give a test-just rap a shop towel around air hose...


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## Wood Hound (Jul 10, 2021)

Found this.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Jul 10, 2021)

Thanks! Thats a huge help. It looks like "A" is the extend port. Seemed logical, but I wanted to make sure. Back to the bender.


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## Wood Hound (Jul 29, 2021)

Bump, how is this build doing?


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## wv311 (Aug 7, 2021)

Looks amazing!! How’s it coming ?


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## JakefromCharlotte (Aug 23, 2021)

The pace of progress on the splitter is driving me nuts! Building in Charlotte is crazy right now. Mix in a few trips to the NC mountains and not much has been done on the splitter. 

I spent the weekend bending tubes and brazing joints. The bending and brazing are getting better with practice for sure. My plan is to connect the tube to my Bobcat for pressure testing. So, we will see how good my brazing truly is. I also drilled out some restrictor fittings (1/16") to hopefully slow down the log lift and wedge lift cylinders. If that's to slow I can drill them out larger.

Since this is a two stage pump, how much flow at pressure does the pump need to see to kick into high pressure?

From Concentric: output are at first stage 22 GPM @ 650 PSI and second stage will be 6.5 GPM @ 2500 PSI


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## sean donato (Aug 23, 2021)

You know those restrictions are gonna heat the crap out of the fluid and make the pump work harder then it needs to. Had issues with them on a 3pt mower for the extension and pivot rams. A flow divider would be the nicer way to do it. Suck off 2gpm and send that to the lift and wedge.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Aug 24, 2021)

sean donato said:


> You know those restrictions are gonna heat the crap out of the fluid and make the pump work harder then it needs to.


Makes sense, but those valves won't see a lot of cycling.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 1, 2021)

Who would have thought that making tube mounts would take so long.... But they're done., and I like them. Even the ones that broke my taps.

Tip: When power tapping on the mill, clamp the ever living hell out of the part. The mill seems to pull the part UP on one side. This is a problem....







Now that all the tubes are brazed up, I have been pressure testing them on the Bobcat for leaks. The Bobcat gets them up to 2500psi or so. Is there a way to multiply hydraulic pressure? I would like to test them at 3500-4000psi if possible. Of course I didn't have just the right fitting to hook up the most suspect tube I made. This is the return line coming off the two valves. #12 inlets to #16 outlet. Drilled out a hunk of bar stock I had. I wasn't happy with how big it is, but it had to be that size so the perpendicular 3/4" tube has enough shoulder to braze.




Also, I have been playing around with the 3D printer to make some proper caps and plugs for the hydraulic tubes. These are really just for paint. The ones from the hydro store are really loose and fall out all the time.


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## Sandhill Crane (Sep 2, 2021)

Post 142, photos of your wedge.
First, nice build.
I bought a new TW-6 Dec. 23, 2014.
*Within two weeks *I had a shop modify the slip on four-way wedge.
The stock wedge will run you ragged in a couple hours time.
With the modification I split off the bottom 4"-5" of large rounds.
Next resplit those, if needed, while the two big pieces remain on top of the "shelf wedge".
I had to raise the wedge with the hydraulic lift an inch or so to loosen the lower pieces to re-split the bottom pieces.
The top pieces stay on top of the wedge, out of the way but within reach, until done.
Now pull the closest top split to the log lift, and the other to the beam.
It is all very similar to the now common box wedge some six years later.
The standard TW-6 four-way is a very common design, often copied.
*The standard wedge design drops wood to the ground on both sides of the splitter and behind the wedge, all of which makes much, much, more work than necessary,* moving, dragging, lifting the pieces, multiple times, to re-split.
In short, the standard TW-6 wedge is an idiotic, stupid designed (probably by an engineer that never used a wood splitter) similar to most manufacturers in the delta swept back, or forward, style.
Just saying, and passing on what I wrestled with on a brand new 10k plus splitter a few years back. It's gone...to a new home somewhere in Illinois.
If your doing boiler wood I guess that works, but for wood stoves and fireplaces very poor design for smaller splits.
Pretty, but not operator friendly. Log lift is in way to comfortably operate on that side. Barely enough room to do so. Tight, pinch point if not careful with snowy, slippery wood.




Above: Splits fall to both sides on the ground. Ugh! Especially if it's a hundred pound chunk on the side opposite the log lift.
Below: Pulp hook used to drag, not lift, pieces to log lift or beam.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 2, 2021)

Thanks for the advise. I really like the out feed table. Mine is probably the weak link .


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## Sandhill Crane (Sep 4, 2021)

Actually the out feed table hooks on, and is removable for travel. If you don't remove it it would probably bounce off. Then again, when splitting it sometimes got knocked off or bounced loose. Had it been fixed on it probably would have got torn off.
Sometimes a knurly split would actually catch the front of the out feed table tubes. If not watching (picture using an auto split valve) it would have been destroyed.
In place of the shelve wedge, a much wider out feed table, and longer towards the log lift would allow sliding large pieces forward to the log lift to re-split.
My sister-in-law borrowed a Country Line 27 yesterday.
I had never used a tip up model. We only used it in a horizontal position. My own splitter is a kinetic, and it's been years since using hydraulic. Nice power, nicely built, but the design is terrible for operator comfort. We stacked two large rounds x 2 to make a table for staging rounds and re-splits. I only ran it for fifteen minutes, preferring to feed it instead.
It was a nice day splitting (three tanks of fuel) apart from getting stung twice. The last few rounds had a ground nest under them, which we had become aware of, so getting stung was my fault really. 
Newer custom or pro splitter designs are still improving. Lost of nice stuff out there incorporating "wood flow" to and from splitter for higher volume production. High dollar machines no doubt.
You could help the ergonomics of your splitter with work tables, or out feed tables on both sides, and to the rear. Or the shelf wedge.
I met a guy who built his splitter with a sliding table on both sides of beam. As the push plate moved forward, the table moved with it. The two halves of the round fell to the sides, onto the table. Push plate returns, with table, carrying rounds back on both sides of beam. 
He also had a tractor/backhoe. The hoe had a splitter to block up large tree service wood. He did not have a conveyor. Instead he used an old tele handler which he split into its bucket. He could, and did pile, 30' high.
Said his issue was deliveries. He scooped up loads to load the dump trailer, getting dirt in his wood. With multiple scoops the dirt got throughout the load and customers complained. Apart from that he had a nice operation, getting all his wood free.


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## kevin j (Sep 4, 2021)

A bucket with manure or hay tines like this keeps the trash and dirt from going into the load


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 5, 2021)

The great disassembly has begun. Primer tomorrow, hopefully.

The tubes and 3D printed caps look good. whit the beam on the side I drilled the inlet tube from the tank.














Wife just told me there is a small fox in my mother-in-laws house. She asked me how "I" will catch it.


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## Wood Hound (Sep 5, 2021)

Good luck with the Fox..


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 6, 2021)

That's not a fox.


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## Wood Hound (Sep 6, 2021)

Cute little buggar ..And you did test this ? The splitter ?


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## muddstopper (Sep 6, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> That's not a fox.
> 
> View attachment 928218


Heck, those are easy to catch. We used to stop and catch everyone we seen when driving down the road. Give an good kick like kicking a foot ball and they will roll up and play dead. Wear gloves because those teeth are sharp. My grandpa used to catch and place in a cage to fatten them up. He would feed them for a few weeks to "Clean" them out. Nothing like going for sunday dinner and seeing all that greasey fat floating in the stew pot. Only thing I can remember having more grease where pig feet. The Beverly Hillbillies Granny had nothing on my grandpa.


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## Wood Hound (Sep 6, 2021)

That is good to know, Mud....


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 7, 2021)

I made a lasso out of a broom and twine to get him into a cage. Then we let him go at a little park next to the Duke Mansion. He came out of the cage like a bullet and headed straight for my car. Luckily after a brief rest behind a tire, he moved on.

Testing was a catch 22... The spring mounts for the axles were just tacked on. I didn't feel confident about dragging the splitter to the hydraulic store for hoses. All cleaned up and primed.


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## Wood Hound (Sep 7, 2021)

Looks good..


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 8, 2021)

Decided to use the paint I had laying around. Wonder what color I would get if I mixed them all together like Richard Petty?


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 25, 2021)

It's ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Put it all together and dragged it over to Hydraulic Supply for oil and hose$ . I was worried about my tank fill math, but it worked out great. 23 gallons filled the tank and hoses. 

The big disappointment was my fault on the lift and wedge valve outlets. I assumed that when you pull back on the lever, the rear port would pressurize (like the main valve). However, its backwards. I think if I change the lever bracket I can work it out.

Another question was the log lift speed and lifting capacity. Its a bit fast, and seem plenty powerful. The flow seems to be enough to kick the pump into the second stage 2000psi. I might take the restrictor off, weld it shut at and re-drill it to 1/16.

The whole rig trailered great. You could really feel the weight, but it didn't bounce around or rattle at all.

The wedge lift works like expected.

Things to fix:
Flip lift and wedge valves
Add grease zerts to pusher (spray silicone didn't work)
Locking pin to make log lift solid
Touch up paint.

*BIG QUESTION*
With engine at speed, the gauge coming off the pump reads zero. When you move a valve, it climbs to 600ish the 2000psi. I did not expect zero, I thought it would always be at 600 and climb to 2000 when needed. 
Is the pump still flowing ?


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## ericm979 (Sep 25, 2021)

In an open center system there's no resistance to make pressure when no valves are being operated. It's like you're pumping into a pipe that's open at the end. Zero psi in that case is a good thing, it means you sized the hoses and fittings so they're not too much of a restriction.

You might try an adjustable restrictor valve for the log lift so you can tune it for the right speed and not too much of a restriction that it kicks the pump into low flow/high PSI mode.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 25, 2021)

ericm979 said:


> You might try an adjustable restrictor valve for the log lift so you can tune it for the right speed and not too much of a restriction that it kicks the pump into low flow/high PSI mode.


Thanks for the advice. The pump not kicking in is a concern.


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## muddstopper (Sep 25, 2021)

The pump only build pressure when it runs into a restriction. Like Eric said, the pump is returning oil directly to tank when valve is in center position. A clean return filter between valve and tank wont provide much resistence to oil flow so you would see very little pressure on your guage. 

To slow donw your log lift, I would take a brass pipe plug and drill a 1/8hole in the middle. Then tap the inside of the fitting for the proper thread of the pipe plug. Then screw the plug into the fitting and the hose back on the fitting. The 1/8 hole in the plug will provide a restriction to the oil flow to the lift cylinder and slow it down. You can experiment some with the drill size to get the speed down to where you are comfortable with it. A restriction as I described will create heat in the oil, but when using it in a log lift, you are not pumping a steady stream of oil so heat build up will be pretty small. Anyways, its cheaper to drill a brass plug than sourceing a restricted fitting and buying the size you need the first time.


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## rancher2 (Sep 26, 2021)

Jake take a look a Surplus center in Lincoln Ne part number 9-7960-4 flow control valve. I run one on my processor to control the speed of the cut on the hyd saw and I run one on my log splitter to control the speed of the log lift.


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## ericm979 (Sep 26, 2021)

rancher2 said:


> Jake take a look a Surplus center in Lincoln Ne part number 9-7960-4 flow control valve. I run on on my processor to control the speed of the cut on the hyd saw and I run one on my log splitter to control the speed of the log lift.


I use those on my tractor's loader to control "bucket flop" and on the backhoe to cure abrupt boom controls that jerk the tractor around. They come in different flow rates. They restrict flow in one direction only, the other way is free flow. You might need a second if you want to restrict lowering speed as well.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Sep 30, 2021)

Thanks for the help on this. The splitter looks great sitting in the driveway. To date, I have split one 8" log. The neighbors are even taking pictures of it. 

And then the 6.0 decided to re-establish it's crown of most unreliable Diesel engine on earth. 











Can't believe how much stuff you have to take off to work on this thing...


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## rancher2 (Sep 30, 2021)

I had one from 2005 to 2011 and in 50,000 miles Ford put four new engines in it all under warranty. That was enough for me. I was usually 500 or so miles from home when it blew up. Switch back to gas engines in 2011 for my F-350 Ford's and haven't had a issue since. Before I retired four years ago a guy I worked with in maintenance at the plant would buy the 6.0 diesel pickups with engine issues and go threw them and bullet proof them and make a good truck out of them. He would drive them for a while and then sell them for a profit. He would use a two post lift in his shop and pull the cabs off to work on them. Said it made it a ton easier to do the heads.


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## panolo (Oct 1, 2021)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Thanks for the help on this. The splitter looks great sitting in the driveway. To date, I have split one 8" log. The neighbors are even taking pictures of it.
> 
> And then the 6.0 decided to re-establish it's crown of most unreliable Diesel engine on earth.
> 
> ...


Splitter is looking nice!

My buddy had one guy in his shop that all he did was fix 6.0's. I don't know how many times I saw the cab pulled on one when I went to visit. The craziest part is how many delivery trucks ran that motor with no issues for lots of miles. Motor was good. Ford's application and adjustments for it were bad. Good luck!


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## JakefromCharlotte (Oct 19, 2021)

Finally fixed the F350. Needed a new FICM and a bunch of o-rings. So that means splitting time. Ran the splitter for a few hours Sunday and filled up the truck. It ran great! found a couple leaks that just needed a little tightening. The wood had been bucked a few months ago, I think it was Sweetgum based on the wavy grain.

The biggest takeaway for me was how important the log lift is. I really thought it was going to get used more as a shelf for staging the next piece to split. But man I was wrong. Logs are heavy. 18 and 24 inch diameter logs are really heavy. A lift is an absolute must in my opinion. The only dislike is that one must load the log and then walk around the machine to process it. It would be nice to do everything from one location. But this seems pretty typical for splitters. 

The cheap ebay throttle I bought won't hold high idle so I put a bungee cord on it. When I started all this last year I noticed some commercial units have a auto throttle when the ram starts to move. Anyone have experience with the auto idle? Do you guys just run yours wide open? 

How do you guys measure RPM's. I have Tiny-Tach's on all my motors and all of them have died. Any thing out there better?


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## Wood Hound (Oct 20, 2021)

Yep, would like to see a video of it working..


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## rancher2 (Oct 20, 2021)

Jake Glad to hear you got the truck back up and running. I would never be without log lift. I use mine all the time for lifting chunks and staging rounds. You do find out pretty quick with these faster, bigger splitter's you really need two people to keep the flow going. Walking around gets old. I have ran mine standing on the log lift side and splitting that way but it does't work the best. I like auto idle for seed tenders and air compressors. Never had one on a splitter don't see the need. I run mine wide open all the time splitting. As far as tach's go I still have a old school one you hold on the end of the crank.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 8, 2022)

I have never been on to leave good enough alone. Sometimes I make it better, sometimes I ruin it....

The splitter is running great. We split up red oak last weekend that was 30" round. The lift didn't miss a beat. 

The Tiny-Tach showed 20 hours before it broke, and I can see some areas to improve on. 

1. Add some grease zests to the pusher.
2. Make a tool storage box for the chainsaw and extra gas.
3. Make the out feed table wider and longer.
4. Weld extensions onto the 4 way wedge for increased capacity
5. Make a box wedge with a pullback arm.

The box wedge is the big driver for the upgrades. All my wood is heading for fire pits and the general consensus is that 3.5" square or smaller is a good size. The amount of re-splitting to get that size means running wood through a few times. I have been watching Eanstonmade videos agin for ideas. I like his arm design for sure. 

Below is a rough drawing of the geometry I have worked out. I plan to make it v-shaped to keep the log centered. 

My question is about how the log engages the blades. Is it all at once or staggered like I played this out. The wood will get split and reach the widest part of the blade before getting split by the next set of blades. The downside of my design the rear of the outer splits will not get split by 2 inches. Of course the next log will push those though. Do most box wedges have all the blades even and split the log at the same time? My big thought is to reduces pressure and keep the splits from binding too much so I angled the blades as well.

Center blade = "1 - 40 degree
Outer Blade = 5/8" - 30 degree


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## SweetMK (Feb 8, 2022)

The biggest problem with the multi wedge design that you show is that the log length will be down to about 12 inches long.
Each step-back is taking up length,, plus the original couple inches that are needed for log cutting tolerance.
That short cylinder may be coming back to bite you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

One way around that is to position the wedge back, so that there is ~24 inches between the pusher and the wedge.
Push as far as possible, the next log will complete the push.

One thing I have seen on YouTube videos is to make the wedges VERY thin,, like 1/4" thick.
If there is another plate on top, that will be a horizontal wedge,, the thin vertical wedges can be supported top and bottom.
The thinner the wedge, the less setback each wedge will require.

Rotate each wedge more than calculated,, you want LOTS of clearance for the wood as it passes through the wedges.
There is no reason not to exaggerate the rotation,, the wood will simply be coming out at a different angle.

One problem that I see on any multi wedge like this 
is that the wood comes out looking like it has been through a meat grinder,,
That is not something that you want for wood that will be handled at a backyard barbeque.

Ragged wood is OK if you are tossing it in an outside woodburner,, 
NOT a beautiful backyard, where you are gonna ask the wife or daughter to toss on another log.

But, all of that simultaneous splitting will SKYROCKET you tonnage demand, also,,,,,,,,

One thing you could do to reduce the tonnage, is to split off the horizontal part first,
leaving the full tonnage to be applied to the thin part left under the wedge.

That is what I did on mine,, it splits horizontally,, then the remainder is split vertically.












I can adjust the wedge up or down, depending on the toughness of the wood.

My splitter has almost zero tonnage compared to yours,, 
but, the horizontal wedge makes up for the lower tonnage.


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## CUCV (Feb 8, 2022)

I haven't looked much lately but I've seen box wedges in-line and staggered as you propose. The wood needs a place to go and staggering seems like the logical solution, it just comes down to how to minimize it. I made a 4-way box wedge for my supersplit where minimizing full length push thru force is super important. It works well and it's been a fun learning experience. The wood doesn't always want to split where the wedge is, so you end up extra split "shavings" like you do on any multi-wedge setup. What I find interesting is that on my box wedge these "shavings" are actually rather large and very useable unlike the waste shaving I get from a typical 4 way wedge. They are ideal kindling size and perfect for my pizza oven.
The wood doesn't look like it's gone thru a meat grinder and on tougher wood it gets sheared and looks like it went thru a saw mill.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> The biggest problem with the multi wedge design that you show is that the log length will be down to about 12 inches long.
> Each step-back is taking up length,, plus the original couple inches that are needed for log cutting tolerance.
> That short cylinder may be coming back to bite you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> ...


I'm not understanding the geometry about losing length? Right now I buck at 18" and that is what I modeled. The offset at the rear is because of the Fusion 360 motion link. In real life the pusher face of the log will be flush. I like you idea about having the top plate engage first to keep the pressure down.

I will work on the blade angle as well. The more angle I added, the more square to the face of the log the wedge became. Do you think 1/2" mild steel wedges for the 4 outer wedges will be thick enough? All I have is mild steel.


CUCV said:


> I haven't looked much lately but I've seen box wedges in-line and staggered as you propose. The wood needs a place to go and staggering seems like the logical solution, it just comes down to how to minimize it. I made a 4-way box wedge for my supersplit where minimizing full length push thru force is super important. It works well and it's been a fun learning experience. The wood doesn't always want to split where the wedge is, so you end up extra split "shavings" like you do on any multi-wedge setup. What I find interesting is that on my box wedge these "shavings" are actually rather large and very useable unlike the waste shaving I get from a typical 4 way wedge. They are ideal kindling size and perfect for my pizza oven.
> The wood doesn't look like it's gone thru a meat grinder and on tougher wood it gets sheared and looks like it went thru a saw mill.


Just like you, small pieces are really not a problem for me. Frankly, scouring the yard for fallen branches is the worst part of getting a fire pit going.


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## rancher2 (Feb 9, 2022)

Jale take a look at the box wedge on the Tempest brand of splitter. Then seem to have it figured out.


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## CUCV (Feb 9, 2022)

I really like how Eastonmade doesn't constrain the logs in the vertical direction. The individual splits can go down.


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## Billhook (Feb 12, 2022)

I made this one last year one the front of a Teleporter forklift. I use a remote control from a winch to operate the electro hydraulics. This keeps me safely away from the splitter. The main wedge is adjustable in height but set at 4 inches here.
The logs are 16 inch but can go up to 24 inch and any length I want in between 1" and 24". The two secondary knives are set back and very slightly angled so they meet the pieces from the first split head on. After they split again I am left with four pieces approx 4x4x16 inches. They then fall onto spring tines to remove most of the bits and pieces before falling into a one ton capacity old potato box with slatted side for ventilation and easy stacking. These are stored in an open fronted shed for a year or so to season . When I need some wood it is easy to bring them up to my back door where I cover them with a tarp. I do hate double handling firewood, especially having to pick it up off the ground!
I also made the wedge arrow shaped to give maximum pressure on difficult Elm logs


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## Billhook (Feb 12, 2022)

My first attempts at log lift needed to be steadied a bit due to the power of the Forklift hydraulics. I used and old truck manual hydraulic crane





This resulted in the steadier more sensible version!


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 20, 2022)

Worked on the box wedge yesterday. I am shooting for 3.5" squares. 

One big challenge I am trying to solve is the log getting stuck at an angle on the return stroke. My plan is the have the puller plate ride down the horizontal wedge and clear the blade by a little. 











I had a 8" scrap left over so I added it to the 4 way.


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## Wood Hound (Feb 20, 2022)

Video, would help..


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 20, 2022)

I know.... It's hard to hold a camera and work the machine at the same time.


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## rancher2 (Feb 20, 2022)

Jake It will interesting to see if the wedge will hold together with having the bottom open and not welded to a lower piece. I sure would watch it . I can see it twisting your whole wedge a bunch.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 20, 2022)

Just got back from a test run with a 36" red oak round before paint. Boy you can feel the friction. Looks like I need to put some relief on the main beam and cut some angle into the wedge back plate.


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## tla100 (Feb 20, 2022)

Here is 12 way wolf ridge wedge. Ran ￼6 crates thru Saturday


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 21, 2022)

Well, I have mixed feelings about the box wedge. It is definitely faster because you don't have to keep re-splitting the wood, but I'm not happy with the size. I can control that by raising or lowering the wedge, but I'm really considering cutting off the blades and putting them closer together. 

Grinding the back plate helped, not sure grinding the beam helped with the box wedge.



Another test with a 28" oak round. I made a holder for the 4-way wedge on the rear.



First split:



Second Split:



Paint it all up. I am on a mission to use all of my old spray paint.


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## rancher2 (Feb 21, 2022)

Uniform size of the split pieces always seems to be a problem with these multi wedges. It will interested to see how it holds together. A least you have some movement that the wedge can do before it starts breaking or twisting things. I keep thinking I would like a box wedge but so much of the locust and hedge I split is so twisted it doesn't even like the four way on my processor.


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 22, 2022)

Wood Hound said:


> Video, would help..





rancher2 said:


> Uniform size of the split pieces always seems to be a problem with these multi wedges. It will interested to see how it holds together. A least you have some movement that the wedge can do before it starts breaking or twisting things. I keep thinking I would like a box wedge but so much of the locust and hedge I split is so twisted it doesn't even like the four way on my processor.


I'm a bit nervous about the design also. Especially after the test run. If it snaps off the blades, I will move them closer together.


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## Billhook (Feb 22, 2022)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Worked on the box wedge yesterday. I am shooting for 3.5" squares.
> 
> One big challenge I am trying to solve is the log getting stuck at an angle on the return stroke. My plan is the have the puller plate ride down the horizontal wedge and clear the blade by a little.
> 
> ...


This video shows the mechanism I designed to hold the log horizontally so that it is released and drops in the chamber without tilting which can lead to jamming


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## Billhook (Feb 22, 2022)

Also I only have a couple of extra vertical blades which are staggered behind the main central blade to allow the split wood to go sideways. 
I think on your pictures that there is not enough room for expansion 
It will work but there will be more ripping and more pressure needed
The forces involved here are tremendous and can easily snap a weld. Also I made my main knife arrow shaped to give maximum pressure on difficult Elm logs just to start them opening up
If an Elm log was to encounter three or more blades at the same time it would take a lot of pressure and strong metal work to go through!


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## JakefromCharlotte (Feb 23, 2022)

Billhook said:


> This video shows the mechanism I designed to hold the log horizontally so that it is released and drops in the chamber without tilting which can lead to jamming



Thats awesome! 

This box blade might end up being v1.0. I don't like the pressure it is seeing or the size of the wood coming out. Any pic of your blade set up?


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## rancher2 (Feb 23, 2022)

Bill you have a well thought out set up there. Thanks for posting details about it. I always love to see this homemade stuff.


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## Billhook (Feb 24, 2022)

JakefromCharlotte said:


> Thats awesome!
> 
> This box blade might end up being v1.0. I don't like the pressure it is seeing or the size of the wood coming out. Any pic of your blade set up?


The main blade is 30mm steel and arrow shaped and sits on another 30mm which is drilled with a series of holes so that a pin can be inserted for different heights in one inch increments 
I have it set a 4 inches and the blades are also 4 inches apart so although I can cut any length up to 22 inches, 16 inch suits our woodburner
The two knives behind are made from the worn wear plate of a D7 Cat, and they are welded to the main blade and rise up and down with it. They are set at a slight angle inwards so that they meet the pieces split by the main vertical blade head on. I think that is only slightly important but what is really important is to not allow the wood to expand between two blades as it is split 
Like all splitters, it works well by itself when you have nice accurately cut rounds of Ash or Beech or other easy woods but difficult wood like Elm needs watching, a bit like a bad child, as it will always try to cause trouble when your back is turned!
First photo is from the right side with the log being pushed right to left. You can see how there is daylight between the back of the first vertical knife and the two rear ones
The second photo is from the rear and it is not easy to see the angle of inclination inwards but it is there. The two tines were left there from a previous attempt to make a trash grid
I recommend reading James Dyson’s autobiography, the English guy who made the vacuum cleaners.
He mortgaged his house even though he had a young family and the amount of prototypes he made and the hours of research was unbelievable 
My small attempt was only possible because of our lockdowns in the Covid., and I only had the materials lying around the farmyard here as all the main dealers were shut, hence the roughness unlike yours which looks well engineered 
The main objective of mine was to bring wood up from fallen trees on the farm to my back door with no heavy lifting. I managed to do this in this video with the help of the Teleporter with its electro hydraulic controls allowing the use of a remote control.


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## Billhook (Feb 24, 2022)

Here is another attempt at log splitting using the wonderful United States engineered Caterpillar D7 from 1956
I set a knife into about a ton of concrete and started the D7. Something had to give and it wasn’t going to be the steel knife, the concrete or 20 tons of D7!


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## rancher2 (Feb 25, 2022)

Bill its easy to see you don't give up on those hard to split pieces. I used to be that way but in my older age those just go in the brush pile and get burned. I hate repairing splitters. I have spent many of hours on a D7 cat doing dirt work on my farms in my younger years.


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