# Best way to learn to climb and cut



## rwagner24 (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey Guys,
Im new to this forum and have a question for you. I have been cutting firewood for years to feed my outdoor furnace. I have cut down countless trees over the years so i'm no stranger to running a saw. Over the years there have been people that have asked me to cut down a tree for them but when I go to look at it it's to close to somthing important to just notch and drop. I have always been intrested in learning how to climb and cut from the top, lowering limbs with rope. I ordered the climbers kit from here: Entry-level Spur Climbing Kit

I'm not to worried about learning to climb, but would like to know the safety end of it. Also how to lower pieces correctly. I see in videos guys using two ropes while climbing, Im guessing the second is just a back up. I also hear of guys "tying themselves in". I'm not looking to start a tree removal service just expand my capabilites. I know of a few guys around that will come and remove a tree for you this way. Thinking of calling one and asking if they would trade some of my free labor for some training. Don't know of any classes you can go to around here to learn this stuff. Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## B Harrison (Mar 17, 2013)

Little more to it than just learning to climb and descend. 
I am not saying this is you, but people who say they have cut firewood for years and 1000's of trees, are not saying a lot when it comes to tree removal.
So I think the general rule is if you wanna learn to climb and remove you will try and get a job as a groundy and work your way up. There are too many variables to be taught. If you are smart enough to figure it out, then get a book on the rope/ rigging part, and go to it.

Its one of those things that looks so simple until your in the tree, fatigue from lack of technique might be the most dangerous part. 

That being said, I would love some free training too, but don't see it happening.
If you are a contractor you can hire a climber or bucket truck and operator to do the hard part of tree removals, it is currently what I do. I can manage other removals, but the tough stuff or risky falls are subbed out and that way there liability covers what could go wrong. This way I make a little money, and get to run a saw.

Good Luck


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## timberland ts (Mar 17, 2013)

First off what kind of shape are you in. Its not as easy as it looks. Second cutting with a saw in a tree is way different than being on the ground. That being said find some one to teach you even if you have to pay them. It will be worth it in the long run. Ive had guys freeze up in a tree first time up and had to bring them down. Not saying you cant do it just make sure you have someone who knows teach you. Be safe.


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## UrbanLoggerMI (Mar 17, 2013)

I would try to get a little bit of training before you start like the other guys said theres a lot that can go on up there that you would never see coming, and without propor training you could get yourself hurt or worse... Tie a limb off wrong have the butt come back and smack you in the face, not put a back cut in and have the limb peel and hang up on your buckstrap or get up there and panic. All things that shouldn't happen with training. I have trained a few guys how to climb and after watching them I would never recommend trying it on your own. I showed a guy some basics before and he wanted to go home and practice (I had no idea) and came back all scratched up, said he got to the top of the tree and forgot how to tie in, freaked out and shimmied his way down. 

If you are going to go for it there are a bunch of cool videos on youtube of guys climbing, you can probably get some pointers there. I would start with a small tree in an open field where you wont have to rope anything out. 

Good Luck and BE SAFE!!


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'm really trying to learn as much as I can before trying anything. Would you recommend buying a block for lowering limbs right away or just start with natural crotch? Is there any other way to lower a branch if there isnt a natural crotch? Othen than a block or pulley.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 17, 2013)

Where in pa are you from?


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

Jonestown, Norteast of Harrisburg


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## R2D (Mar 17, 2013)

rwagner24 said:


> Hey Guys,
> Im new to this forum and have a question for you. I have been cutting firewood for years to feed my outdoor furnace. I have cut down countless trees over the years so i'm no stranger to running a saw. Over the years there have been people that have asked me to cut down a tree for them but when I go to look at it it's to close to somthing important to just notch and drop. I have always been intrested in learning how to climb and cut from the top, lowering limbs with rope. I ordered the climbers kit from here: Entry-level Spur Climbing Kit
> 
> I'm not to worried about learning to climb, but would like to know the safety end of it. Also how to lower pieces correctly. I see in videos guys using two ropes while climbing, Im guessing the second is just a back up. I also hear of guys "tying themselves in". I'm not looking to start a tree removal service just expand my capabilites. I know of a few guys around that will come and remove a tree for you this way. Thinking of calling one and asking if they would trade some of my free labor for some training. Don't know of any classes you can go to around here to learn this stuff. Any help is greatly appreciated.



I was you a year ago. I bought a intermediate climbers kit from Wesspur, bought climbers, helmet, and whole bunch off other stuff. Including some stuff I will never need. I had knot tying books, watched youtube videos, watched lots of live take downs and limbing jobs, contacted guys here at AS and put some of this information to work. I had dead trees that needed to come down. I climbed them for practice several times before I took them down. When I finally did take them down, I had a arborist of thirty plus years coach me. He had his crew there as well. I probably learned more in the time I spent with the arborist than all the hours I tried to self teach myself.

If you want to learn fast, hook up with someone that has been doing this for a long time.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

Thats what I was thinking. Just trying to get the minimum equipment needed to start. I hate buying things that I later find out I didn't need. Trying to decide what rope for lowering, what size porta wrap, to buy a block or not it can drive you crazy :bang:


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## timberland ts (Mar 17, 2013)

Yes there is away but, thats a few steps higher than beginner. On a spar you can cut a groove in the back side below where your notch would be to let the rope run it takes some skill to do this. Only on a take down. Your ground guy better know how to work a rope or be prepared for a ride. Not fun! Thats what we call old school.


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## UrbanLoggerMI (Mar 17, 2013)

I have taken down some very difficult trees and have never once used a block, just learn your knots you can tie the portion of the limb you want to cut to a portion still there and lower it to itself. I wouldn't invest in a porta wrap either, if its a heavy limb just take the rope get it tight and wrap it around the tree a 1-3 times depending on how heavy it is. You may mark the tree up a bit doing so, but i dont see the need to spend the money on a porta wrap if you're just starting out.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

I was wondering if there was a way to cut your own crotch (in the tree:msp_tongue


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

What Kind of knot do you like to use to tie to the branch being lowered?


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## timberland ts (Mar 17, 2013)

Half hitch with a running bowline


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## Locust Cutter (Mar 17, 2013)

I would think a pipe/timber hitch... I could be wrong though. I'm in the same position as you. I've climbed trees off and on for years and done plenty of rock climbing. I just don't know Jack about climbing with rigging/spurs and tying off for controlled removals. I would love to learn as well.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

And favorite rope if you are going to use natural crotch alot?


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## Locust Cutter (Mar 17, 2013)

timberland ts said:


> Half hitch with a running bowline



Would you also use a bowline to secure the stand rope (likely improper terminology - the rope securing the lowering block up in the tree) to the tree where you're working?


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## timberland ts (Mar 17, 2013)

No timber hitch or cow hitch. Order the tree climbers companion. A must have i give it to all my guys when their hired.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

That book is coming with my climbing kit. Trying to decide on a rope for lowering to start with. Has to be good for natural crotch. Also would like to go thicker than 1/2 just to be safe.


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## timberland ts (Mar 17, 2013)

Yales bull rigger good for natural crotches i have two 5/8 and 3/4


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

is that the Double Esterlon rope?


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## timberland ts (Mar 17, 2013)

No 12 strand. Goto sherrill tree and rigging lines.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok I found it. Not a bad price either. Thanks!!!


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## StrataTree (Mar 18, 2013)

I use a clove hitch with a stopper knot. Check out Arbormaster or ACRT for 2-5 day training workshops. ACRT is in Ohio. I strongly advise getting some formal training AND finding a local experienced climber to learn some tips and tricks from. It will save you lots of potentially dangerous trial and error. ACRT is great for learning current safety protocol. Good luck, have fun and be safe!


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## Grais (Mar 18, 2013)

I dont post here a lot, for this I had too. 
I am kind of surpiursed thaat some people seem to be almost encouraging a guy to go up a tree and start rigging off chunks he may need a 5/8 or perhaps a 3/4" bull rope, and block to deal with ?
This is someone who states they have very little chainsaw experience ?

Now before you all freak out, this is a case of the OP,Rwagner, who seems a decent guy, asking for advice having never climbed a tree on how to learn to climb and operate a chainsaw in a tree. 
Asking if he should buy a block, to which one answer was, nah just natural crotch it ?
We need to seriously slow down and think about what we are potentially encouraging someone to go out and try.
Cutting trees, especially at height, is severley dangerous. 
Not just a little bit dangerous, life ending, the long dirt nap dangerous. 
Horrible disfiguring life long injuries kind of dangerous, things will never be the same kind of dangerous.
This stufff is not to be taken lightly. We all know this.
I know you guys discuss this stuff daily, and we all go to work and work with trees all day(most of us), but this is a rank newbie, someone who doesnt even know how to, with confidence, run a saw on the ground. 
And were all OK with him climbing into a tree with his new kit from Wespur and trying his hand at roping a big top out of a tree ?
Rwagner you need to get a job as a groundman, or go to school, you really need hands on advice. Simple as that.
Forget about lowering limbs and rigging, youve never even stepped into a tree with the spurs on have you ?
Wait till your twenty five feet up, for the fisrt time, and see how you feel.
Maybe youll take to it like a duck to water, but it is not easy hauling your ass up a tree, if you think it is your in for a shock.
Please for the sake of your life, and those around you who I am sure love you very much and very much want you too stick around, get some proper training before undertaking anything this crazy. 
Learn to climb first, with a handsaw, you need to earn some respect for the work. Climbing will teach you this, but dont be going up with a chainsaw till you understand what the hell your dealing with. You need to move in stages, low and slow as they say.
Get comfortable climbing in the tree using your handsaw, learn to use the chainsaw on the ground, learn proper safety techniques etc... then combine the two. 
Moving too fast, I fear will result in an accident. Take your time, dont rush the chainsaw work, learn to climb and descend and get to different places in the tree first.
You will soon find out it is a lot harder than we make it look.:msp_wink:
And please for the sake of all that is holy, please dont think I am trying to be an uppity jerk, I am not, I am just a bit scared for you, and felt that someone needed to speak up about what you are planning on trying to do. 
Its great that you are ambitious, a self starter and motivated to the hilt, keep that fire you will need it. But, and this is serious... do not ever display a lack of respect for the work and the work enviroment when working at height, as soon as you do, youll be sorry.
Good luck, I hope you find some folks near bye to give you some good training, and soon so you get a good safe start at this game.
G.
PS: and please the rest of you, Im not harping on you, I know none of you meant anything other than to be helpful, but please a little caution with the rank newbies(no offense intended, we all start somewhere)

PSS: sorry about spelling errors spellchek is on the fritz


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## rwagner24 (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks Grais for your post. I have chainsaw experience but you're right not climbing trees. I will never turn away advice from someone that has experience. I'll look it to the classes mentioned but at the very least get hooked up with someone that does this for awhile.


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## richard t (Mar 18, 2013)

rwagner24 said:


> Thanks Grais for your post. I have chainsaw experience but you're right not climbing trees. I will never turn away advice from someone that has experience. I'll look it to the classes mentioned but at the very least get hooked up with someone that does this for awhile.



As I've told everyone that has ever asked about getting into climbing I told them you need to go to work as a groundman for a good company with good climbers and watch every thing the climbers do and pay attention to their moves in a tree. I was lucky to work for a company with good climbers and the experience is the first thing you need Being around good climber's and watching how they move in a tree and set their ropes. I worked as a groundman for about two or three years and my boss would put me in little trees after about the first year.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 18, 2013)

I agree that would be a great way to learn but I have a full time job not in the tree removal industry. I want to learn how to do this for side tree removal and fire wood collection from people that may have a tree a little to close to somthing important to just fell it.


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## IdahoJohnny (Mar 18, 2013)

rwagner24 said:


> I agree that would be a great way to learn but I have a full time job not in the tree removal industry. I want to learn how to do this for side tree removal and fire wood collection from people that may have a tree a little to close to somthing important to just fell it.



Just because you are going to do this as a side job does not exclude the need for training. There is a reason they start guys on the ground, then let them move into the tree. So they can learn and get instruction first.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 18, 2013)

I understand And agree with you a 100% I need training. I was just saying I can't go work for a tree service for a few years full time to learn.


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## joezilla11 (Mar 18, 2013)

If you can take off work ACRT has a basic arborist class starting April 15 in ohio. There's only 5 guys registered for it so it should make it nice and personal. And it's good timing


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 18, 2013)

UrbanLoggerMI said:


> I have taken down some very difficult trees and have never once used a block, just learn your knots you can tie the portion of the limb you want to cut to a portion still there and lower it to itself. I wouldn't invest in a porta wrap either, if its a heavy limb just take the rope get it tight and wrap it around the tree a 1-3 times depending on how heavy it is. You may mark the tree up a bit doing so, but i dont see the need to spend the money on a porta wrap if you're just starting out.



I don't get people's resistance to a block and portawrap. $250.00 investment, easier on the rope, the tree, the climber and the groundie. Safer, more predictable, and less work. I don't really consider them optional anymore. I agree they don't need to be his first purchase, but to say they have no use is going a not far. The last guy that wrapped my hilltops around a tree worked his last day with me.


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## timberland ts (Mar 18, 2013)

I was just trying to answer some guestions each time i posted i said he needed pro help and was not for beginners. As for blocks and porta wraps i use them whenever possible. It saves alot of your rope, and time.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 18, 2013)

Another question; if your main climbing line is 5/8 steel core would you use the same size for your bottom back up or go with lighter 1/2 ?


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 18, 2013)

rwagner24 said:


> Another question; if your main climbing line is 5/8 steel core would you use the same size for your bottom back up or go with lighter 1/2 ?



No offense Wagner, but the answer is in the question. I am assuming that when you refer to your main climbing line as a 5/8 steel core you are actually referring to a flipline, or lanyard. I am once again assuming you are using spurs to climb a removal, without a toprope for your first climb. I don't know where to start. It's not what you know, it's what you don't know that will get you hurt, and based on your questions, there is way too much you don't know yet. Please don't rush this.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 18, 2013)

If I were rushing this I would be out back climbing trees with just a flip line. Instead I asking about the back up lanyard and listening to everyone's advice on here. I'm just wondering if guys use two of the same flip lines or a heavy top flip line and a smaller back up lanyard on bottom. I'm not trying anything without someone there to guide me the first time.


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 18, 2013)

Your backup is Your Lifeline, Never Climb without a Quick way to
PoLi the Ground


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

I've seen so many videos of a guy climbing a tree with spurs, flip line and bottom lanyard. They cut all the branches off on the way up and then pieces of the stem on the way down. Where is the life line attached if you are working your way from top to bottom taking a piece of the stem with each time?


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 19, 2013)

http://www.arboristsite.com/arborist-101/231058.htm

We covered this pretty good in this thread. Yes, there are a lot of climbers that climb without a lifeline, but I don't reccomend it. Always have a quick way to the ground.


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## StrataTree (Mar 19, 2013)

The Z133 safety standard requires we use at least two tie in points AND one must be a climb line when operating a saw in a tree.:msp_wink:

Get in on that ACRT course Joezilla was talkin about. Best, fastest education for you right now sounds like.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

So the upper flip line and lower lanyard or is there a third line?


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 19, 2013)

Upper flipline, lower climbline


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

And are those two the same or can the bottom be smaller?


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 19, 2013)

What climbline are you using?


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## woodchuck357 (Mar 19, 2013)

*I think this dude is full of it*

and is just trying to wind folks up!:msp_angry:


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## Ax-man (Mar 19, 2013)

Some things never change. Threads like this would pop up on a fairly regular basis here on AS. The story has the same basic theme. In this case it is to be able to collect free firewood, but normally what prompted these types of threads was to go buy the gear to climb trees because of the cost to hire it done by a pro was just too much to pay. Some guys were able to pull it off, most couldn't and ended up hiring out the job anyway after they found themselves in over their heads.

I am not going to get into a big climbing discussion. I really can't add to the thread much other than to say to the Op is that you are doing this on the side and that you have a full time job. Have you considired what would happen if you did do this and got hurt and couldn't work your full time job?? Cutting firewwood is not even a pre- requiste for climbing and using a chainsaw in a tree. Is free firewood actual worth climbing a tree just because some idiot wants you to risk your neck by not having to pay a pro to cut down these so called close to something trees . In my book NO. I'd find wood elsewhere.

If your determined to do this and I am not trying to tell you shouldn't I would limit your tree climbing to small trees in the 16 to 18 inch class. That entry level kit is OK for single stem pines , spruce, cheeries, pin oaks in most cases because they are straight and tall but the kit is not really adequate for a tree that had no real central leader and is spread out and is wider than it is tall which is the case for most midwestern decurrent type trees. For these types of trees you are going to need a climbing line and KNOW HOW TO USE IT. If you can't figure out how to use a climb line in a tree your going to lost and that multiply your chances for an accident.

I haven't read through the entire thread but some of this advice and equipment is just overkill for your skill level. The supply houses are going to love you for spending money on gear that you don't need. The one poster that told you to go low and slow with a hand saw was right on and telling it like it is.

Good luck


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

5/8 x 12' steel core


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 19, 2013)

rwagner24 said:


> 5/8 x 12' steel core




That's your flipline, I'm talking about your climbing line.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't have one yet, that's why I'm asking so I know what to order :bang:


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 19, 2013)

Order The Tree Climbers Companion by Jeff Jepsen, read it, then read it again, then make your order.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

Ok I ordered the beginners climbing kit from wes spur and it comes with. It will be here Monday.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh and sorry Ax-man I didn't see you post right away on my small iphone screen. I promise to start small and not try too much too soon.


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## timberland ts (Mar 19, 2013)

Get the video series from balieys working climber by Beranek


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## Ax-man (Mar 19, 2013)

rwagner24 said:


> I don't have one yet, that's why I'm asking so I know what to order :bang:



I'll help you out a little. I went over to the climbing rope section at Wes Spur. It has been a long time since I have needed to order a new rope but I see they still have my two favorites . The Arbormaster by Samson which would be my first pick and the Hi-Viz from New England . Both ropes have stood the test of time because they are still being offered. Both ropes are 16 strand, a true 1/2 in diameter which is easier to grip and pull yourself up a tree, they also wear good for natural crotch climbing. Both ropes are user friendly for friction hitches like a Blakes or VT. Both ropes throw good ,they aren't limp nor are are they too stiff. All of these factors may or may not be covered in the tree climbers book. That book should also show you how to use a climb line as a second lanyard which is important so you know how to work your way around a crotch of a tree and your not tied into your tie in point so your not off safety if your spurring your way up a tree. It should also you how to use it to get out of a tree or off of a spar should an injury happen to you. Using one or two lanyards does not give this option like a climb line does to get yourself out of a tree or off of a spar. Choosing a climbing line is a matter of preference and others here will disagree with me but these two ropes have always been favorites of mine.


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## miko0618 (Mar 19, 2013)

even if all your doing is spur climbing straight up a tree you should still be using a life line. get 150' of 1/2" climbing line to start. I use 12 strand forestry pro. its a great rope. my advice is to leave the spikes off, get in the tree via throw line and move about. learn how to use your climbing line and your lanyard to hold you into a solid position. even when you extend both arms with a saw. i keep 2 pouches on my saddle for my lanyards. i have 2 12' 1/2" lanyards on me at all times. i may only use 1 but if i feel i need more stability, i'll tie in another. if i need more, i will use a second climbing line. do what you gotta do to be safe. example: i have my main line supporting me vertical, 1 lanyard holding me to the tree and one holding me laterally. this way no matter how i lean or reach, i am locked in. you don't want to be making cheesy cuts cause your not setup right. on the main stem cutting as you go down, you keep your flipline level and your life line is chocked on the tree below it. this way if your spikes slip out or you gotta bail quick, its right there. i always check my connections before i trust it. if i am repositioning my main line, i will tighten it up and give slack on my flipline. this way if you messed up, your flipline will still be there for you. the number 1 reason for fatal accidents involving ropes is a failed tie in. if it takes you 8 hours to limb a tree, so be it. you need to be aware of how things react. double check everything. all the time. i made a shallow face cut today on a 8" limb and it barber chaired. it was my fault. limbs are loaded and you just cant predict how much tension is on the limb. it had a healed wound that was undetectable right where my back cut was. with a proper notch, it would of just had a weak hinge. point is, i coulda got hurt. being a low limb, i took it for granted. good luck!


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## Bermie (Mar 20, 2013)

You've been given a lot of good advice here, take it. 

When you've got your kit, read Climber's Companion five times, have figured out how to go up and down without ever being unsecured...come down and start again.

Then get a good idea of how wood reacts when it is under different loads, tension, compression, side loading. Then learn what cuts and what sequence of cuts to make to remove a loaded piece of timber safely. Do this with a handsaw FIRST. You make one booboo with a chainsaw and it could well be your LAST.
Learn what defects in timber mean for your climb and cut plan...oh, you have to learn to recognize defects first...

Whenever you think you are ready to cut something...STOP...think, 'What will happen if this goes wrong?'
Where will the piece of wood go, where will your saw go, where will YOU go and will any of the other things hit you on the way past/down?
It may mean you rethink your strategy, take a few more seconds or even minutes to attain a better position, but when the inevitable F*&%up happens, you will survive, intact, or only with minor injuries.

I ALWAYS take a moment to make sure every part of my body AND my climb line and lanyard is OUT of the way of follow through, kickback and the piece of wood falling. IN the tree follow through is as dangerous as kickback.

And yeah, until you know when it is Ok to use a chainsaw onehanded, DON'T!
Start SMALL, start LOW, and start with a handsaw.

Did I mention to read Climber's Companion five times?...don't leave out the introduction either.


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## bootboy (Mar 20, 2013)

For me its been a natural progression. I grew up climbing trees as a kid, I started putting up swings, removing branches that were in the way if said swing. Just spending lots of time in trees for fun, then as a teenager I took up rock climbing, learned to be comfortable on the end of a rope. Then I wanted to learn to do removals, I started out with a hand saw doing some deadwooding of the trees in my own yard. Just taking every opportunity to be in a tree working. I did a lot if climbing and learning before I ever took a chainsaw into a tree with me. I worked with no spurs for a while too, that helped me learn to position when i couldn't just gaff in. When I first did, I started small and have just worked my way up, I'll always have a long way to go, but starting out small and working you're way up seems to be a prudent way to do it.


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## rwagner24 (Mar 20, 2013)

Thank you guys for all the advice and info. I will read that book before trying anything.


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## husqvarna335xpt (Apr 5, 2013)

*Gerald Beranek*

I'm in the same boat as you are im drawn to the tree's and are detirmened to become an arborist, i would be a groundie but most companies here i would not wanna learn from.. DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR GET ATREE STORY.....WORKING CLIMBING SERIES.... get all 3 its a bit pricey but well worth the money... Mr Beranek's videos are unbelievably filled with detail and i mean to the T... from ropes to dblrt to srt knots poles saws cuts in the tree the list is endless and you cant put a price on his knowledge all put on film plus he has some great books... if you youtube atreestory he has a video on dbl rope ropewalking system. its the system i know use incredible..... just thought id chime in with a lil info new to the site....


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## Goose IBEW (Apr 5, 2013)

Rwagner, I was in your boat not too long ago. I started on spikes using a lanyard as a flip line, no climbing line, its a miracle I made the progression without getting hurt. One thing I did have in my favor was OSHA 30 training and competant person training for suspended scaffolding. This at least taught me how to inspect my equipment and the importance of 100% tie in.

Keep the chainsaws and the handsaws away for a while. Learn how to climb using the double rope technique, how to use a throwline, get comfortable in the tree without the worries of cutting anything. I know from expeierence that most guys will want that saw before they are really competant using their climb line. Get in the tree with your climb line and a lanyard, get comfortable putting yourself anywhere and everywhere in a tree. 

Read all of the books, watch all of the videos you can. Learn the Blake's hitch, you should be able to set it blindfolded. Take pictures of your climbing system and post them to verify its ok. Get comfortable 2 feet off the ground. I rather see the question "I was 4' off the ground and was wondering about......" than hear about you getting hurt because you didn't ask anything at all.

I have some time under my belt, still consider myself a novice. I hope to take a course soon, may even look into the one in Ohio now that i heard about it. You can learn more in one day from a pro than you can teach yourself in 6 months. 

Please keep us posted on your every move, tell us what you have read, post pictures of your set up. You will get your balls broken, just have thick skin and realize what guys are saying. NOBODY wants to see you injured and the guys here know more so than you how easy an injury can come about.


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