# Does Firewood Truly Season When it's Below Freezing?



## J1m (Jan 12, 2012)

Maybe the most discussed topic on here, but what the heck? I'll start another firewood seasoning thread...

I got another grapple load of wood delivered a few weeks ago and during my free time I've been working like a mad man to get it bucked, split and stacked. Then about half way through one of my piles, I noticed a fine coating of ice on the end of one of my splits. It led me to start thinking about winter seasoning. How is it possible that firewood seasons when the split is frozen solid? I know most of you are experiencing much higher than normal temperatures where you are, but we are not. We still don't have much snow, but there have been several nights well below zero and day time temperatures rarely get above 20*.

So, what say you? Does firewood truly season in the winter? If so, how?


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## BSD (Jan 12, 2012)

the ice is from the wood being frozen since ice expands. I'm sure you knew that being from maine, but a few others on the boards may not realize.

any seasoning that is done in the winter in your climate is very little if any, basically only exposed edges that are sun-warmed will dry out if the humidity is low. other than that, if its frozen solid, there's no way for the water to escape.

Edit, and actually the freeze cycle is good as it will split plant cells and make them loose their water faster when they thaw. a good example of this is winter burn plants, ones that heat up on the south side in the day due to radiant heat from the sun but then freeze solid at night. this repeated action will eventually break the woods interior cell structure. probably not an immense help, but still something on the war on water in wood.


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## Constrictor (Jan 12, 2012)

put an ice cube in your freezer for 2 months and go back and try to find it. You will have your proof.


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## BSD (Jan 12, 2012)

Constrictor said:


> put an ice cube in your freezer for 2 months and go back and try to find it. You will have your proof.


unless you live in a freezer-like environment that's not a great analogy. the air in your freezer is 0-3F and near 5% humidity. only the most northern sections of Canada, Alaska, Greenland have those conditions for 3 months straight


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## Constrictor (Jan 12, 2012)

BSD said:


> unless you live in a freezer-like environment that's not a great analogy. the air in your freezer is 0-3F and near 5% humidity. only the most northern sections of Canada, Alaska, Greenland have those conditions for 3 months straight



the guy lives in maine, so yeah, he does live in a freezer like environment. and the humidity is very low in winter. yeah wood seasons pretty well in winter.


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## Streblerm (Jan 12, 2012)

Around here the Amish still hang their clothes out to dry when it is below freezing. This leads me to believe they still dry, or they don't notice the clothes are still wet, but most likely the former. I don't see how wood would be any different.


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## Whitespider (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes, most firewood will season, or dry during winter months; maybe not as fast, but faster than many would believe. Live trees do not “freeze solid” during the winter; if they did, they would die as expanding water destroyed cell structure. The water in trees is mixed with all sorts of enzymes and compounds that act as a natural anti-freeze… we call this mixture sap. As winter approaches trees will reduce the water and increase the amount of this “anti-freeze” in their sap; in spring they reverse this, adding water and reducing “anti-freeze”. So trees cut in late fall or winter will not “freeze solid” even in extreme cold; summer cut may “freeze solid” during extended periods of below zero temperatures. Yes, the sap will become exceedingly thick and sluggish as temperatures drop, but if the light is just right you can see the steam rising off stacked firewood on a windless, below zero day. The term “frozen wood” rarely refers to a solid freeze… the sap has just become exceptionally stiffened by the cold.

The exception would be dead wood that has been on the ground for some time, sucking-up water from the ground.


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 12, 2012)

Yup, the air around these parts in a normal winter is dryer than the Sahara desert! Wood will season in the winter months. In fact if you want to cut for next season, the months of Jan. and Feb. are the best months to cut live trees as there is very little moisture in them. At least that's how it is in the northeast, I can't say for points south and west.


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## CTYank (Jan 12, 2012)

Some people talk about "seasoning" wood as though the term had some meaning, and they were in on it. :msp_rolleyes:

The project of interest here is "air-drying" wood. The sort of thing many lumber processors engage in, often in cooperation with federal forestry research agencies. Megabucks riding on the outcome. Think I'd try to pick their brains, rather than guessing. :msp_rolleyes:

Sublimation of moisture from solid -> vapor is extremely well-known.


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## J1m (Jan 12, 2012)

CTYank said:


> Some people talk about "seasoning" wood as though the term had some meaning, and they were in on it. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> The project of interest here is "air-drying" wood. The sort of thing many lumber processors engage in, often in cooperation with federal forestry research agencies. Megabucks riding on the outcome. Think I'd try to pick their brains, rather than guessing. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Sublimation of moisture from solid -> vapor is extremely well-known.



Ok....WHAT????


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## Guido Salvage (Jan 12, 2012)

Constrictor said:


> put an ice cube in your freezer for 2 months and go back and try to find it. You will have your proof.



I think this would be attributable to opening the freezer door as well as the automatic defrost cycle. If what you were saying was true, frozen lakes would revert to open water in the absence of above freezing temperatures.


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## Constrictor (Jan 12, 2012)

Guido Salvage said:


> I think this would be attributable to opening the freezer door as well as the automatic defrost cycle. If what you were saying was true, frozen lakes would revert to open water in the absence of above freezing temperatures.



My freezer doesnt get opened sometimes once every few months. the joys of being single. and yes, given enough time an entire frozen lake would indeed evaporate.


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## cheeves (Jan 12, 2012)

Constrictor said:


> the guy lives in maine, so yeah, he does live in a freezer like environment. and the humidity is very low in winter. yeah wood seasons pretty well in winter.



I've always found that to be true!


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## thepheniox (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes wood dries in the winter when it's freezing.


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## atlarge54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sometimes I put firewood in my garage (drafty) or carport to have it closer to the boiler. My observation over the past eight winters---the wood really ought to be pretty dry before it gets there. Wood might lose moisture in the winter, however in my location it doesn't appear to lose a significant amount.


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## Woodomaker (Jan 12, 2012)

Streblerm said:


> Around here the Amish still hang their clothes out to dry when it is below freezing. This leads me to believe they still dry, or they don't notice the clothes are still wet, but most likely the former. I don't see how wood would be any different.



Freeze dried draws :msp_unsure:
Actually, my grandmother had a clothes line and used it year round. I remember bib overalls swinging like slab wood on the line....


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## lrig0550 (Jan 12, 2012)

*Wood Does Season During Cold Weather*

Wood will season in the winter albeit at a slower rate....here is a more technical explanation than offered by some of the others. Solid carbon dioxide (dry ice) goes directly from the solid state to the gaseous state under normal atmospheric conditions without ever passing through the liquid state. This physical process is known as sublimation. Frozen moisture under a low humidity condition will do the same. So firewood will loose moisture under frozen conditions through sublimation. The frozen ice cube that slowly disappears in the freezer does so through sublimation. The water goes from the solid state to the gaseous state with never having been a liquid. Exposure to wind and ultraviolet rays affects the rate of sublimation.


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## blackdogon57 (Jan 12, 2012)

lrig0550 said:


> Wood will season in the winter albeit at a slower rate....here is a more technical explanation than offered by some of the others. Solid carbon dioxide (dry ice) goes directly from the solid state to the gaseous state under normal atmospheric conditions without ever passing through the liquid state. This physical process is known as sublimation. Frozen moisture under a low humidity condition will do the same. So firewood will loose moisture under frozen conditions through sublimation. The frozen ice cube that slowly disappears in the freezer does so through sublimation. The water goes from the solid state to the gaseous state with never having been a liquid. Exposure to wind and ultraviolet rays affects the rate of sublimation.



Makes sense to me - good post - rep sent !


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## Eric Modell (Jan 12, 2012)

I am the guy that burns green wood and always wait until it is cold and has as may freeze cycles as possible to dry it before I bring it in. Yes it will freeze dry, and in South west Mo the freezing helps a lot.


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## logbutcher (Jan 12, 2012)

lrig0550 said:


> Wood will season in the winter albeit at a slower rate....here is a more technical explanation than offered by some of the others. Solid carbon dioxide (dry ice) goes directly from the solid state to the gaseous state under normal atmospheric conditions without ever passing through the liquid state. This physical process is known as sublimation. Frozen moisture under a low humidity condition will do the same. So firewood will loose moisture under frozen conditions through sublimation. The frozen ice cube that slowly disappears in the freezer does so through sublimation. The water goes from the solid state to the gaseous state with never having been a liquid. Exposure to wind and ultraviolet rays affects the rate of sublimation.



Nice job....and you don hav to evin bee a professer.:hmm3grin2orange:

To sum it up: think of MRE's, or for others getting out there--*FREEZE DRIED.
*


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## Hedgerow (Jan 12, 2012)

logbutcher said:


> Nice job....and you don hav to evin bee a professer.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> To sum it up: think of MRE's, or for others getting out there--*FREEZE DRIED.
> *



Ok LB... What the hell did you just say there???


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## freemind (Jan 12, 2012)

logbutcher said:


> Nice job....and you don hav to evin bee a professer.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> To sum it up: think of MRE's, or for others getting out there--*FREEZE DRIED.
> *



MRE's are not freeze dried.

Foods such as what Mountain House produces, ARE freeze dried. 

The funny of that is MRE stands for Meal Ready to Eat. Freeze dried foods are not ready to eat until rehydrated.


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## howellhandmade (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes, it does truly season over the winter. I cut a bunch of cherry one spring; it was dry enough to burn well by the next fall, but burned better and better as the winter went on. That's just one example; I've noticed lots of times that the winter makes a difference.

Might be kind of hard to prove by this winter, which hasn't been cold enough to be really dry yet, but it's not over.


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## freemind (Jan 15, 2012)

You are welcome professer logbutcher.

:msp_biggrin:


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