# Aluminum ladder for 1st cut



## BigOakAdot (Aug 21, 2015)

Hey all,

So I have a lot of milling to accomplish and not a ton of time to do so. I'm trying to get my stash done in the most efficient way I can. 

I've been using 2x10's to set up for my first cut in the past, but I find it too time consuming. I know a lot of you guys use aluminum ladders to accomplish this much faster. 

All I find on CL is extension ladders and A frame ladders. Does anyone have a brand or link to a ladder I can use that's relatively inexpensive? I'm trying to avoid the track system that costs about 200. 

Thanks!

BOA


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## rarefish383 (Aug 21, 2015)

I have 3 extension ladders that I use to mill, 20 foot, 24 foot and 42 foot. They slide apart making 10, 12, and 21 foot rails. I continue to use it on all cuts not just the first one, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Aug 21, 2015)

Here's a big pine that blew down on my farm in WV, Joe.


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## babybart (Aug 21, 2015)

As rarefish said, I have extension ladders taken apart and use the ladder on every cut. So much easier to start the cut as well as finish the cut. Drilled a hole in every rung and just cinch it down.


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## ford4500 (Aug 21, 2015)

I also use a ladder for every cut. It allows you to easily start and finish each cut and only takes an extra minute to set. A 3120 with a 42 inch bar on a panther mill is quite heavy so anything to make things easier will help speed up production.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks guys. I think I found one to use. so the ladder on every cut makes it slide more freely through the cut?


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## Yellowbeard (Aug 22, 2015)

I tend to use rails (in my case, usually 2X4s, but I have been considering using a ladder as well) on every cut because I feel that they will always be smoother than even the smoothest (chainsaw) milled surface so I am not compounding roughness with each cut (though this may be folly). 

Further, you always have something to hang the saw on to start the cut, which I find useful.


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## Yellowbeard (Aug 22, 2015)

rarefish383 said:


> Here's a big pine that blew down on my farm in WV, Joe.



I am very interested in learning whatever magic you are using to make this log levitate like this; it seems WAY easier than anything I can imagine doing.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 22, 2015)

Yeah well with the ripping chain I use its always very smooth. I just need to get gravity on my side and not on my back!!!


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## Yellowbeard (Aug 22, 2015)

Gravity IS your friend. I bought one of those big 4 foot farm jacks at Harbor Freight for 50 bucks and find it quite helpful in raising one end of a log (thanks to bobl for that, and many other ideas).


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## rarefish383 (Aug 23, 2015)

Yellowbeard said:


> I am very interested in learning whatever magic you are using to make this log levitate like this; it seems WAY easier than anything I can imagine doing.


All magic is secret, or it wouldn't be magic! That was a big blow down and the stump is still on the other end. It still has a lot of log sticking out in the air, and I want to mill some more slabs from it. It's been several years and I'm afraid the roots will be giving way soon, dropping it. If I get a chance to mill some more slabs before it falls down, I'll probably cut a small tree with a "Y" in it to prop the end up. Here's the fold up table I made out of the slabs for my hunting trailer, Joe.


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## steve easy (Aug 23, 2015)

Gave up carting ladders around. I use Malloffs end board and lag screw system, take care not to use screws longer than the end boards. Lets you cut any length log, with a bit of practice you can enter and exit the cut straight. Only time i use a guide board is when i am cutting cookies on a 45degree angle.


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## BobL (Aug 23, 2015)

The most useful thing about using log rails for every cut is being able to remove the twist from a previous cut which is impossible to do by just milling directly over the top of a previous twisted cut.


I've used ladders and boards but I like my Unistrut frame best of all.
Adjustable for both width and length, and it breaks down to 2 x 10ft segments so I can just fit it in my van.
Yes it's heavy and slows things down so I guess if I needed to cut a heap of board from small log I wouldn't use it.

For anyone contemplating the Unistrut route, I cut the 20ft long rails in half but If I was to do this again I would go the 2/3 - 1/3 cut.
The 10ft long segments are usually just a tad short for most of the stuff I've been cutting.
Downside is I would not be able to fit the longer segment in my van but that's what roof racks a for.


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## Boon (Aug 24, 2015)

Here also, ladder for first cut, second cut and all cuts


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## Boon (Aug 25, 2015)

Perhaps experienced can clarify my idea that waking in wedges along the slab that are bigger than the kerf contribute to the next slab being out of level. 

So one cut is done, the ladder gets placed on the log for the next cut and there is a gap (most of the time at the end the log) from the last cut. Me thinks this is a wedge problem.


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## stikine (Aug 25, 2015)

Boon said:


> Here also, ladder for first cut, second cut and all cuts View attachment 442838


Boon - What are the wood wedges for under the rungs of your ladder? Are you trying to adjust for a twist from a previous cut?


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## Boon (Aug 25, 2015)

stikine said:


> Boon - What are the wood wedges for under the rungs of your ladder? Are you trying to adjust for a twist from a previous cut?


yes, also some sag there was lack of support on the first cut due to the unevenness of the log-not possible to support the whole run sometimes, saw and mill weight don't help. We were cutting 200x200's on that run


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## BobL (Aug 25, 2015)

Boon said:


> yes, also some sag there was lack of support on the first cut due to the unevenness of the log-not possible to support the whole run sometimes, saw and mill weight don't help.



I find "snuggling" the cross beams of the log rails into the top of the log for the first cut helps reduce this problem.
Also on bigger logs it also provides for a wider spacing of the log rails as shown in the picture below.
Ladders have more cross beams (steps) so it's a bit more work.


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## Boon (Aug 26, 2015)

BobL said:


> I find "snuggling" the cross beams of the log rails into the top of the log for the first cut helps reduce this problem.
> Also on bigger logs it also provides for a wider spacing of the log rails as shown in the picture below.
> Ladders have more cross beams (steps) so it's a bit more work.



Yes you are right, this is what I was dealing with on the first cut




I love flat straight logs & wish there were more around. I like the uni-strut snug idea, but find times when the ladder is indispensable. Have drilled holes in the rungs so it can be screwed down, which helps.


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## BobL (Aug 26, 2015)

Yep that loos like a bit of a tricky one.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 26, 2015)

BobL said:


> The most useful thing about using log rails for every cut is being able to remove the twist from a previous cut which is impossible to do by just milling directly over the top of a previous twisted cut.
> View attachment 442715
> 
> I've used ladders and boards but I like my Unistrut frame best of all.
> ...



I like this uni-strut idea, Bob. Does it have holes on all four sides or
Just two opposing sides? I ask this cause in your pic it looks to me like there are no holes on top or bottom and its stabilized to the log by clamping on either side. 

Is this right or are you mounting it some other way? And how do you secure it for your first cut?


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## BobL (Aug 26, 2015)

BigOakAdot said:


> I like this uni-strut idea, Bob. Does it have holes on all four sides or
> Just two opposing sides? I ask this cause in your pic it looks to me like there are no holes on top or bottom and its stabilized to the log by clamping on either side.
> Is this right or are you mounting it some other way? And how do you secure it for your first cut?






And here is how I use small C section bars as vertical supports on hard to start logs.
The vertical frame is lowered with successive cuts and holds one end of the Unistrut frame level 
The PITA is getting the CSM out between the frames at the end of the cut.
To start with I just back out of the cut.
When the slabs are near full length I lift the Unistrut frame and CSM over the green upright frame


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## Boon (Aug 27, 2015)

BobL said:


> View attachment 443454
> 
> 
> And here is how I use small C section bars as vertical supports on hard to start logs.
> ...



Bob to the rescue again  thanks you have given me good pointers once more and much to think about and plan


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## Yellowbeard (Aug 27, 2015)

Wow. Interesting and smart - pretty much like everything bobl seems to do... Stop being so dang clever, will you? Wait, no, I'm busy stealing ideas from you - strike that last.


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## Rudolf73 (Aug 28, 2015)

BobL said:


> View attachment 443454
> 
> 
> And here is how I use small C section bars as vertical supports on hard to start logs.
> ...



That looks good Bob, is there a Unistrut supplier in Oz? I haven't had much luck finding it. Cheers


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## BobL (Aug 28, 2015)

Rudolf73 said:


> That looks good Bob, is there a Unistrut supplier in Oz? I haven't had much luck finding it. Cheers


One of the largest users of Unistrut are industrial electricians so most larger electrical supplier places will stock it.
I used the HD P1000 material see http://www.unistrut.com.au/index.php?part=P1000&M1=1&M2=1&go=1

One thing about it is that in Oz its very expensive, especially if you pay full retail - if you have a friendly sparky try to get it through them as the savings are significant.

The HD stuff is heavy (but also strong) - a 20 ft length weighs around 16kg (35lb) so my full length setup (2 x 20Ft UniStr + angle iron ends + all thread) weighs ~80lbs.
There is lighter duty stuff that weights around half that of the HD stuff but it needs much more supporting especially when starting a cut. 

The finish on the Unistrut is important - the first lot I bought were galvabond which is a smooth finish that the mill can slide on nicely.
Some one at the yard drove over one of the pieces with a truck and I replaced it with a hot dipped galvanised length which is much rougher and not as slippery.


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## Rudolf73 (Aug 29, 2015)

BobL said:


> One of the largest users of Unistrut are industrial electricians so most larger electrical supplier places will stock it.
> I used the HD P1000 material see http://www.unistrut.com.au/index.php?part=P1000&M1=1&M2=1&go=1
> 
> One thing about it is that in Oz its very expensive, especially if you pay full retail - if you have a friendly sparky try to get it through them as the savings are significant.
> ...



Thanks Bob. I'll have a chat to my sparky.


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## Boon (Aug 29, 2015)

BobL said:


> View attachment 443454
> 
> 
> And here is how I use small C section bars as vertical supports on hard to start logs.
> ...



Bob on a 6 - 7 meter run using your unistruts in sections where there is not enough log to support the struts how would you stop sag?


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## BobL (Aug 29, 2015)

Boon said:


> Bob on a 6 - 7 meter run using your unistruts in sections where there is not enough log to support the struts how would you stop sag?



My unistruts are cut in half so I can use a pair of 2 x 10ft (3m) lengths for short logs and I can join the 2 pairs together to make a ~5m long combination.

Sag can be reduced in a number of ways.
I have used a variety of blocks, scaffolding frames, and a pair of saw horses - check this out.
This is a boomerang shaped log uses support from a strong sawhorse and a block of wood.
Mill up to the block then angle the outboard end of the bar so it cuts the slab well past the block.
Lift the rails and slip the CSM past the block and carry on


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## Boon (Aug 30, 2015)

BobL said:


> My unistruts are cut in half so I can use a pair of 2 x 10ft (3m) lengths for short logs and I can join the 2 pairs together to make a ~5m long combination.
> 
> Sag can be reduced in a number of ways.
> I have used a variety of blocks, scaffolding frames, and a pair of saw horses - check this out.
> ...



thats got a good bend in it & nice pattern. 

Ok so just pack it up using whatever so long as its stable. From the photos I don't see how you have managed to stop the struts pulling sideways when the saw goes through, specially in the mid section. ATM using the ladder I put a screw down through the rung to stop it jumping round. Would it be possible to do this with the unistrut in some way or the threaded rod? I like the idea of a stronger guide using unistrut


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## BobL (Aug 31, 2015)

Boon said:


> Ok so just pack it up using whatever so long as its stable. From the photos I don't see how you have managed to stop the struts pulling sideways when the saw goes through, specially in the mid section. ATM using the ladder I put a screw down through the rung to stop it jumping round. Would it be possible to do this with the unistrut in some way or the threaded rod? I like the idea of a stronger guide using unistrut



Yes can be a problem on these and on first cut where there is no sideways support. However the log rails are being held very firmly at both end so the sideways movement is restricted and it's not as sideways flexible as a a long ladder. On that boomerang log or similar , mostly I just take the first cut slower so the powerhead doesn't slam sideways into the unistrut. Were possible I have also put tek screws into the log for the unistrut to lean against.

95% of the time my CSM does not make any sideways contact with the log rails because the inboard legs on the CSM have wheels on them which ride on the log rather than the rails.


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## Boon (Sep 1, 2015)

BobL said:


> Yes can be a problem on these and on first cut where there is no sideways support. However the log rails are being held very firmly at both end so the sideways movement is restricted and it's not as sideways flexible as a a long ladder. On that boomerang log or similar , mostly I just take the first cut slower so the powerhead doesn't slam sideways into the unistrut. Were possible I have also put tek screws into the log for the unistrut to lean against.
> 
> 95% of the time my CSM does not make any sideways contact with the log rails because the inboard legs on the CSM have wheels on them which ride on the log rather than the rails.
> View attachment 444222


think I've worked out what to do - screwing through the threaded bar to stop sideways movement if needed. The long nuts supplied with the Alaskan mill can be purchased at hardware stores, if a 50mm long tag is welded into one of these with a hole big enough to fit a screw through into the log. 50 mm should be long enough, when removing the screw pressure will be needed on the tag for easy screw removal. 2 -3 spun onto the threaded bar with the rails either side can also be moved around to suit position. Provided the threaded bar is placed at the correct height on the unistrut construction, the tags should sit flush on the log ready to be used when needed.


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## Boon (Sep 16, 2015)

BobL said:


> View attachment 443454
> 
> 
> And here is how I use small C section bars as vertical supports on hard to start logs.
> ...



Bob what size threaded bar are you using?


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## BobL (Sep 16, 2015)

Boon said:


> Bob what size threaded bar are you using?


3/8"


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