# special (less generic) boot question



## hammerlogging (Oct 18, 2010)

I wanna a real logger boot with a big ol' heel, what gives???

Just kidding.

Does anyone have any first or second hand info for working steep ground falling timber (brush work counts, even cruising timber!) in either HOFFMAN UNINSULATED PAC CALKS or XTRA TUFF INSULATED CALKS?

Thanks.


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## 2dogs (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't have eny experience with the boots you asked about, only the Viking slip-ons. I have twp pairs, one corked and the other with vibram soles. I find either pair very comfortable and supportive. The corks work well on steep ground but I am not a timber faller so I don't have day to day, all day in the boots kind of valuable opinion. Good luck.


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## hammerlogging (Oct 18, 2010)

2dogs said:


> but I am not a timber faller so I don't have day to day, all day in the boots kind of valuable opinion. Good luck.



I've seen your pics and it may not be all day every day, but you sir are a faller and know what needs I am looking to fulfill.

Thanks for the input.


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## slowp (Oct 18, 2010)

The orange pull on Vikings are heavy, but really hold up well. They become a sauna boot so I usually put them on a boot dryer every night. I've had them on steep steep ground, and they handle it well. 

I think you can buy them a size bigger to put the wool pacs in. I just put felt insoles in them but we have a mild climate and as long as I am moving, my feet stay warm.


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## Rounder (Oct 18, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> I wanna a real logger boot with a big ol' heel, what gives???
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> ...



Joe, Hoffman calked pacs are the standard around here, you can't do much better for a winter boot short of miendls (probably misspelled that) Just make sure you get the logger specific model, they make a bunch of variations - Sam


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## 056 kid (Oct 18, 2010)

A pair of the hoffmans is on my list of things to get. My leather corks, frozzze my feet. Like standing on cold metal. .


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## oregoncutter (Oct 18, 2010)

*boots*

If You don't want insulated boots, my guess would be that You are more concerned with You're feet staying dry rather than warm, and dry. Hoffman makes a good pac, but as for my own opinion from my experience I prefer the Danner Super Rainforest that Hoffman sells as a caulk boot, they are triple stitched all leather, and offer good support. They aren't insulated so when the temperature get's down in the lower 40 upper 30 degree range the goretex seems to rob the heat away real quick like. Even working all day in the snow here in temps in the mid to low 30 degree range, I stay pretty comfortable in my Hathorn Highlines, no goretex, no insulation, just a high grade pair of wool socks, and a coat of sno-seal every so often. I have yet to lose any toe's to frostbite!


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## hammerlogging (Oct 19, 2010)

I suppose a little background info would make this more fair. I currently wear Wesco timber calks. I also have some White insulated pacs, I \would hjave gone witht he Hoffman's but my wife found these on Craigslist for super cheap. They ar bulky, but warm and dry, for the worst of winter.

My Wescos rolled out on me really bad. I'm still wearing them, god forbid, but I'm working on a whole new getup.

My feeling is that they rolled out on me really bad because I 1. worked in them in all but the worst conditions, including lots of wet conditions
and 2. I oiled the piss out of them regularly planning on making it through last winter with them alone- but I broke down and got the pacs.

I've had wescos roll out and stretch, others not. They fit me good (new), keep my feet dry, I like their calks. Its tough to say how much of this is speculation and how much is real.

So, given a predominantly wet season is coming on, my thought is to maybe check out the uninsulated pac, or the Xtra Tuff, as a still a bit warm wet weather alternative to leathers, so the next pair of leathers can stay in better shape.

Argh this is an expensive business!
Thanks for the info.


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## imagineero (Oct 19, 2010)

I use Salomon SM expert boots when climbing (trees and mountains) and used them during my limited stint as a logger in new zealand. I've never owned a logging boot so I don't have a comparison point. These boots are designed for ice climbing when you are climbing vertical walls with crampons (like spikes on your toes) to dig in to the ice where your entire body weight will be resting on your toes. As you can imagine this gets unpleasant, tough on your calves and wet in normal shoes very fast. 

The soles on these boots are incredibly stiff. They have near zero flex, so if you're standing with your toe on a ledge that's only 1/4" wide, it still feels pretty close to standing with your whole foot on flat ground. I found them excellent on the steep steep forestry slopes on NZ (we'd often just slide down the hill after work, it was faster) but walking with them on normal ground is kind of weird because there's no flex. it's like being in moonboots or something. 

They're super waterproof, I still often wear mine while hiking steep slopes in the rain but my feet get wet anyway because I'm a bad foot sweater and these do become a sauna for me. I find them comfortable to climb trees in for take down work, I don't have spurs but am looking at getting some. I think they'd be just find with spurs due to the high stiffness.

Shaun


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## John Ellison (Oct 19, 2010)

Its been awhile, but I have worn the Xtratuf noninsulated calked boots. Very light and flexible. I did not like them and most other guys that I knew of that had them did,nt like them either. No ankle support at all and do not hold up well. Someone with Superman ankles on flat ground might really like them because they are so light.
If you are not logging they are a great rubber boot. The regular sole Xtratufs have better traction on a wet buckskin than anything I have worn. I would go with your other options.


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## slowp (Oct 19, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> I suppose a little background info would make this more fair. I currently wear Wesco timber calks. I also have some White insulated pacs, I \would hjave gone witht he Hoffman's but my wife found these on Craigslist for super cheap. They ar bulky, but warm and dry, for the worst of winter.
> 
> My Wescos rolled out on me really bad. I'm still wearing them, god forbid, but I'm working on a whole new getup.
> 
> ...



My Wescos did the same. So badly that the Vikings, which are right around $100 (cheap!) felt nice and sturdy when winter came around. They don't roll.
The Vikings are the most popular rubber boots worn by the rigging crews around here. Some wear them all year! YUCK! They save money that way. 
The lace up ones won't last, but the orange ones will and you can see your feet in the brush so you know which way you are walking. What a deal! 

If your on line boots are less than $100, go for it.


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## Burvol (Oct 19, 2010)

Joe, give me a shout some time. Lost your number. For around 180 the winter Hoffmans I have are like putting sleeping bags on your feet. Oh so warm and comfy. Goes with Burv's comfort zone winter collection, much like the Rocky Squirell hat liner and warm up fire with leftovers in tin foil in the coals at lunch. Disclaimer: Everyone crying about bulky calks, try wearing a size 15 shoe. Nuff said as Bob would say LOL


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## hammerlogging (Oct 19, 2010)

Will do bro, and thanks to all.

Red's got the insulated Hoffman pacs, I wish I had those over the super bulky whites- I have a pair but they're not calks, real nice indeed. I'll think about the Vikings. I'm going plastic till I figure out what to do for my next leathers, but something far more slim than my winter boots.

As trashed as my Wescos are, they only really bother me when I'm walking on a road, on the steeps i really don't think about it.

Oh, and when I get up in the morning it takes a few minutes of hobbling. Reminds me of my Hoffman leathers, which did NOT treat me well (totally different product then the pacs)


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## 385XP (Oct 19, 2010)

I have a pair the hoffman caulked pack boots and they have held up for 4 winters. They are really comfortable and keepmy feet dry.


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## dancan (Oct 19, 2010)

Vikings and bama socks tested here in the winter ,
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=120833&highlight=bama
They work just as well in the summer but 2 pair of bamas make it through the day better .


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## hammerlogging (Oct 29, 2010)

Thanks for all the input, but curiosity got the best of me.... I went with the uninsulated Hoffman pacs. I've worn them 3 days falling. I've got some rubbing on my ankle bones where the rubber meets the leather but I think it'll pass, or I deal with it one way or another. They are pretty sweet. A little softer touch than my wesco soles, nice soft mocassin like toe area tight on the foot, so far so good. I'll need leathers again for sure by next spring, cause these will be too warm, but these seem a great addition to the calk choices.


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## Siskiyou Blues (Mar 28, 2011)

Disclaimer: I know this thread is a year old,
but I have to ask, (only because I am about to go buy a pair)
are the Wesco Timbers no good?


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## Humptulips (Mar 28, 2011)

Wescos suck IMHO unless you like wet, sore feet. Can you guess that I had bad luck with them.


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## slowp (Mar 28, 2011)

Mine blew out on the sides so they may be built only for flat ground now. I had roll over problems on steep sidehills. Owie.


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## Siskiyou Blues (Mar 28, 2011)

slowp said:


> Mine blew out on the sides so they may be built only for flat ground now. I had roll over problems on steep sidehills. Owie.


 
Well damn, I wish I had the luxury of spending most of my time on flat ground.
Found a new pair of Wescos for 200 bucks but that was wishful thinking sounds like. Going to have to cough up for a pair of whites.


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## Jumper (Mar 28, 2011)

In an insulated model these look good...

Logger Boots - Viberg Boots


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## hammerlogging (Mar 28, 2011)

Siskiyou Blues said:


> Well damn, I wish I had the luxury of spending most of my time on flat ground.
> Found a new pair of Wescos for 200 bucks but that was wishful thinking sounds like. Going to have to cough up for a pair of whites.


 
I'd go for it, and I've had trouble with Wescos, but will buy another pair. Only half of them half rolled out to where I couldn't walk on flat ground. But I like them, boy I like them new....I went ahead and mailed in a custom sizing kit to see what size i really wear and between always wearing a size too large, according to their analysis, and over oiling, I'm hoping its more my fault. The other pairs i know of rolling out were also over oiled, probably. For $200, heck yeah.


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## Gologit (Mar 28, 2011)

I've had good luck with Wesco. I agree with those that say not to over-oil them. The only pair I ever blew out was because I used way too much oil and the oil itself wasn't really right for boots anyway.

When you get the bucks try their custom fitting option. It really makes a difference in comfort and in how long they last.


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## 056 kid (Mar 29, 2011)

What where you using Bob, Murphys oil?


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## Gologit (Mar 29, 2011)

056 kid said:


> What where you using Bob, Murphys oil?


 
I don't know _what_ that stuff was. It was in a dusty old Mason jar with "Boot gres" scratched on the lid. I found it on a back shelf in an old abandoned sawmill shed. We were camped there on a falling job, it was two hours to town, it was raining, and I was out of Obenaufs. The stuff _looked_ like boot oil. It _felt_ like boot oil. It smelled like...well, I can't really describe _what_ it smelled like. It smelled _different_...kinda like a cross between witch-hazel, cinnamon, 90wt gear oil, and a badly decomposed bear carcass. It made my eyes water. I put my cigarette out.
But...I hate wet feet so I slopped some on with an old rag tied to a stick. It soaked right in so I slopped on a second coat.

I set them in front of the heater in my little trailer but the smell became overpowering so I wrapped them in a garbage bag and left everything in the back of the crummy overnight.

Next morning I put them on...and then took them right back off again. The oil, or whatever it was, had seeped clear through the leather and puddled up inside the boots. The leather laces were falling apart in wispy little pieces, and you could see the stitching around the soles rotting off. The actual boot leather had taken on the consistency of oily cardboard, _wet_ oily cardboard and the brass hooks and eyes had turned black.

I wore my spare caulks for two weeks, waiting for the Wescos to evaporate that oil out or for it to dry up or solidify...or something. They never did. The laces pretty much evaporated, all the side and sole stitching did the same. I finally just unscrewed the spikes and gave the old boots a decent burial out behind the camp. Grass never did grow in the little circle where the boots were.

One of the Cat-skinners took what was left of the oil home with him. He said he'd try it out. We haven't seen him around in awhile.


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## Siskiyou Blues (Mar 29, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> I'd go for it, and I've had trouble with Wescos, but will buy another pair. Only half of them half rolled out to where I couldn't walk on flat ground. But I like them, boy I like them new....I went ahead and mailed in a custom sizing kit to see what size i really wear and between always wearing a size too large, according to their analysis, and over oiling, I'm hoping its more my fault. The other pairs i know of rolling out were also over oiled, probably. For $200, heck yeah.



Thanks I think I will. One last question though, how would a pair of Wesco Timbers compare to the Hoffman Caulks.
Edit: Dammit, waited too long on the wesco's.


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## hammerlogging (Mar 29, 2011)

I wouldn't even blink at spending $200 extra on the wescos. Now my bud Red had some calked red dogs (bailey's), never oiled em once and he got 6 beautiful months out of them.

Some people like the hoffmans, I'm not one of them. They're good at pacs.


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## hammerlogging (Mar 29, 2011)

Gologit said:


> and the oil itself wasn't really right for boots anyway.
> .



I guess I missed the part that was sort of right, just not really right. Funny story.

Mr., I might be too hard headed,or too much of a romantic, I might be stuck for the long haul.


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## bitzer (Mar 29, 2011)

Good story Bob, gave me a chuckle anyhow. I use mink. Seems to work. You ever seen water bead off a minks back in the middle of January? You gotta believe in it.


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