# Quartersawing with a CSM



## mtngun (Jun 3, 2009)

My CSM has been gathering dust since January due to chores and work, but a neighbor wanted some trees gone, so the mill sprang into action today.

It's a Ponderosa Pine, 111 years old, 31" - 32", not including bark. The top blew off during the big windstorm of December 2006. The owner hoped the tree would survive, but it died this year. 

Cutting the first slab. My 36" bar can only cut about 29". and this sucker was about 34" including the bark, so it seemed like a good excuse to try quartersawing. I've never attempted quartersawing before, most of the trees I mill are too small to justify the effort. BTW, the bucket is used to collect the fine milling sawdust. The fine sawdust is handy for soaking up oil spills on the shop floor.






Slabbing the third side. To roll the 12 foot log into this position, I had to hook a come-along to the 60" logrite peavy. The logrite earned its keep today. 

It was a blistering hot day by mountain standards (72 degrees F) and gasoline was boiling in the saw's tank. It made for balky starting sometimes. I ended up tuning the saw a little richer to help cool it down.





Then I split the cant down the center.





Split again into quarters. Almost every cut requires setup, so progress was slow, and still not a single board to show for the work.





End of day one. Boards and posts on the ladder rack, firewood slabs in the bed. Two more quarters to mill tomorrow.





Well, quartersawing with a CSM is very slow, especially to set up. However, once you have four square quarters, the setup is over, and the boards are cut quickly.


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## BobL (Jun 4, 2009)

Nice pics, thanks for posting.

I've seen a dude hang a plastic bucket directly underneath the saw to collect the sawdust. The bucket has a 6" high plastic lip riveted to the top along one side to help direct the dust into the bucket. He uses canola oil for bar/chain lube and puts the sawdust on his compost heap.


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## demographic (Jun 4, 2009)

Pretty sure that Ponderosa Pine is what we over here would call Pitch Pine, its good heavy timber for a softwood.

Think its sometimes used for water wheels in watermills, or used to be anyway when there were proper working waterwheels.


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## Brmorgan (Jun 4, 2009)

BobL said:


> Nice pics, thanks for posting.
> 
> I've seen a dude hang a plastic bucket directly underneath the saw to collect the sawdust. The bucket has a 6" high plastic lip riveted to the top along one side to help direct the dust into the bucket. He uses canola oil for bar/chain lube and puts the sawdust on his compost heap.



I've read elsewhere that too much sawdust in compost is a very bad thing, something to do with the wood decomposition process robbing the compost mix of a lot of the nitrogen. Anyone else ever heard that?

That's a pretty nice log there. No blue stain though, eh? Some of the beetle-killed ponderosas on my aunt's property in the Okanagan had massive amounts of blue stain, sometimes 6" thick around the outside. I had no idea that Ponderosa sapwood could be so thick. It can make for some really beautiful lumber sometimes, especially if it has a "tiger" pattern to it, which happens quite frequently in the Lodgepoles up here.


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## BobL (Jun 5, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> I've read elsewhere that too much sawdust in compost is a very bad thing, something to do with the wood decomposition process robbing the compost mix of a lot of the nitrogen. Anyone else ever heard that? .



Yep, that's correct - ideally it needs to be mixed with a high nitrogen manure like chicken poop!


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## Backwoods (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for posting the pics, I am originally from the east side of the state where the big pine grew. (Bates, find that on a map.)
As far as sawdust in the compost: chickens are just to slow, unless you have a whole lot of chickens. I have a pig pen in the barn, I add the sawdust as bedding at first then it goes into the pen area until it is saturated then it is composted with the rest of the manure. Talk about growing healthy dark green plants when used liberally. 
However if you just spread fresh sawdust around your favorite plants they will fade to a pail green/yellow. Just hope they were not the wife’s favorite plants as well, or you will be in deep doo-doo.


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## Brmorgan (Jun 5, 2009)

Some farms, at least here in BC, literally spray liquefied pig and/or sheep :censored: on their crops as fertilizer. You don't want to be driving by one of these farms on the highway when they're spraying on a really hot day.


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## peterrum (Jun 5, 2009)

Great report, looking forward to seeing the boards you get.


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## BIG JAKE (Jun 5, 2009)

Beautiful spot to mill in. Handy being right by the road too!


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## wavefreak (Jun 5, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> Some farms, at least here in BC, literally spray liquefied pig and/or sheep :censored: on their crops as fertilizer. You don't want to be driving by one of these farms on the highway when they're spraying on a really hot day.



Oh yeah. That's the good stuff. There's a dairy farm a few hundred yards from the school where I live. It creates such a wonderful learning environment when the wind blows from the North East


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## mtngun (Jun 5, 2009)

Only one board had significant blue color. Otherwise it was rather plain looking wood. But, you know me, I can't pass up free wood.

Most of the boards and posts in this stack are from that one 12' pine log. I cut everything 12' because that's about as long as can be carried in a pick-up truck. If you are wondering why the board ends are painted pink, that is latex paint that I picked up cheap because the custom color wasn't right. 





The property owner had a couple of other blown down pines that she wanted cleaned up, so I hauled off several loads of pine firewood. Pine is not my favorite firewood, but I'll take it if is easy to get to. After running out of firewood one winter, I now believe you just can't have too much firewood.





demographic, Pondarosa Pine is easily identified by the groups of 3 long needles (or sometimes groups of 2). It is sometimes called "bull pine" or "yellow pine." It has deep roots that let it grow in dry climates. The thick bark (1 1/2" on this log) allows it to survive low-level wildfires.

Due to the hot, sunny weather, all my saws had issues with gas boiling in the tank which seemed to cause hard starting. In the old days we called it "vapor lock," though I am not sure if that is an accurate description. Maybe ethanol gas boils easier ? I've never had so many problems before. The 066 was the least affected, while both my Efco saws would refuse to start once they were hot. The saws hadn't been tuned since last fall, when it was cool. I'm going to retune them today and make sure they are a little rich.


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## ridgerunner97 (Jun 6, 2009)

That poor Toyota lol handling it like a champ though. That lumber and country is absolutely beautiful nice job with the milling. Approximately how fast could you do one twelve footer cut. just a single slab with the 660? Ive milled sum hardwood especially cherry and with my 288xp was doing about 1.5 feet a minute. Just curious as to how you were making out with the pine. Might do some myself if I get a chance.


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## mtngun (Jun 7, 2009)

How fast to saw 12 feet ? Well, it depends on the width of the cut, obviously. I've never timed it, but I'd guess 15 - 20 minutes for the wide slabs, 5 minutes by the time the cant is whittled down to 8" boards. 

Or another way of putting it, it took a full tank of fuel to cut a full width slab, but no more than half a tank to cut the quartered cants.

I used the same chain for the entire log, Baileys ripping chain, which cuts smooth but is not the fastest. I touched it up several times with a file, but the file was dull and barely doing anything. The cutting speed had slowed noticeably by the time the log was completely milled (after the job was done, I sharpened the chain on an electric grinder, and placed a two brand new files in my field kit). 

But, the point is, the big time eater for an Alaskan mill is setup, refueling, sharpening or swapping chains, cooling down (both the fuel and the oil were boiling because it was a hot day), moving the log (when quartersawing, the cant has to be turned for nearly every cut), and packing boards to the truck. 

One time it took an hour just to turn the log, because I had to drive home, grab a come-a-long and several chains, and then use the come-a-long to roll the log. Hey, a green 32" x 12 foot log is heavy ! ! ! !

Plus, before I even started milling, I spent a couple of hours limbing, bucking, and clearing the limbs away from the tree so that I had a clear, safe work area.

There was mischievous horse in the pasture where I was milling, and several times I had to interrupt milling to deal with the horse. Every time I took a trip home, I had to place all my gear on the other side of the fence, or else the horse would stomp on it. One time I left my chaps laying on the log, and he grabbed them and stomped them into them into the dirt. He took a few bites out of my guide board. Etc.. For better and worse, milling where the tree falls is not the same as milling in a factory.

It took the little Toyota 3 trips to carry the boards home (boards on the ladder rack, firewood in the bed), and once at home, I had to cut stickers, stack the boards, and dump the firewood before returning to the log. Fortunately, home was only a mile away.

It would be very nice if the saw cut faster, but I'd still spend most of my time doing setup and moving boards around.


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## BobL (Jun 7, 2009)

mtngun said:


> There was mischievous horse in the pasture where I was milling, and several times I had to interrupt milling to deal with the horse. Every time I took a trip home, I had to place all my gear on the other side of the fence, or else the horse would stomp on it. One time I left my chaps laying on the log, and he grabbed them and stomped them into them into the dirt. He took a few bites out of my guide board. Etc.. For better and worse, milling where the tree falls is not the same as milling in a factory.



This is quite funny. How did the horse go when you started the saw? My wife (a serious horse lover) would have said - "here take my whip, that will sort it out". 



> It would be very nice if the saw cut faster, but I'd still spend most of my time doing setup and moving boards around.



Yep - been there - done that!


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## carvinmark (Jun 8, 2009)

Makes me want to get back to milling. Nice pics.


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## mtngun (Jun 8, 2009)

BobL said:


> This is quite funny. How did the horse go when you started the saw? My wife (a serious horse lover) would have said - "here take my whip, that will sort it out".



On the first day, the horse was shy and would stay clear, but by the 2nd day he decided he was my best friend and wanted to help me with whatever I was working on.

As I set the guide board on or off the cant, the horse would paw the guide board with his foot. 

If I took off my ear muffs between cuts, the horse would pick the muffs up in his mouth. He also kept trying to pick up my cordless drill.

He loved the bright blue Logrite peavy. Everytime I leaned the peavy against a log or stump, the horse would knock it over.

Eventually the horse got brave enough to "help" with sawing, trying to put his foot on the Alaskan as I pushed it through the cant. I was afraid he would get cut, so I finally got mean and chased him off.

He was a smart horse, but always into mischief.


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## Booma (Jun 12, 2009)

mtngun said:


> There was mischievous horse in the pasture where I was milling, and several times I had to interrupt milling to deal with the horse. Every time I took a trip home, I had to place all my gear on the other side of the fence, or else the horse would stomp on it. One time I left my chaps laying on the log, and he grabbed them and stomped them into them into the dirt. He took a few bites out of my guide board. Etc.. For better and worse, milling where the tree falls is not the same as milling in a factory.
> 
> It took the little Toyota 3 trips to carry the boards home (bo




LOL! Make your guide board out of pecan, it tastes bitter and horses won't eat it :greenchainsaw:


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## ShoerFast (Jun 12, 2009)

mtngun said:


> On the first day, the horse was shy and would stay clear, but by the 2nd day he decided he was my best friend and wanted to help me with whatever I was working on.
> 
> As I set the guide board on or off the cant, the horse would paw the guide board with his foot.
> 
> ...



Try shoeing them for a living, never a dull moment! 

Horses are prof that God loves us and wanted us to be happy, a blessing equal to dogs in there own way.


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## ShoerFast (Jun 12, 2009)

demographic said:


> Pretty sure that Ponderosa Pine is what we over here would call Pitch Pine, its good heavy timber for a softwood.
> 
> Think its sometimes used for water wheels in watermills, or used to be anyway when there were proper working waterwheels.



We are all here to learn, I think Pitch Pine is a different tree. 

The clue is in your post, "good heavy timber" , as Ponderosia Pine is also Yellow Pine and about standard for stud-grade (light) timber. 

Yellow Pine is everything but heavy.  Many run 150% more guide-bar in Yellow Pine compared to what you would run in the same saw in hard-wood.


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## demographic (Jun 13, 2009)

demographic said:


> Pretty sure that Ponderosa Pine is what we over here would call Pitch Pine, its good heavy timber for a softwood.
> 
> Think its sometimes used for water wheels in watermills, or used to be anyway when there were proper working waterwheels.



I have just been corrected on this statement by Shoerfast , seems that I was wrong and Ponderosa Pine isn't the same stuff as I know as Pitch Pine.

Ponderosa pine is Pinus ponderosa and Pitch Pine is Pinus rigida, as I have only seen what I know as pitch pine in lumber form and was told by someone else that it was the same as ponderosa pine its my fault for not making sure before I posted it.

Carrying on in ignorance is no substitute for being corrected by someone helpfull so thanks for putting me right Shoerfast.
Regards Scott.


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