# oak trimming and warm winters...



## wahlturfcare (Jan 31, 2012)

I have a customer of mine that I usually trim all of her oaks and hickory trees this time of year but we have been mostly in the 40's with barely any snow this winter. Now it has been in the 50's this past week and she want to wiat on pruning her trees as a local landscaper said if she has them prunned, her trees will end up dying.

Anyone ever hear of this?

I went ahead and told her anthying small under 8'' or so shouldnt affect the tree especially if im not take very much off of them. most to lift the trees and get rid of interfering branches/ damaged ones.

What's everyone elses thoughts on this?


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## formationrx (Jan 31, 2012)

*bs*

that landscaper is full of ####..... the best pruning time for most anything is in the dead of winter.....where i am oct-april is good too... it depends on the tree and climate..... you can prune most anytime-- as long as you know what to take. the only times i outright avoid pruning is when the leaves are pushing or falling, the tree is real sick, or newly planted. i hate when the landscaper or the mower man does that ####...it makes me want to give him a lariat every time i see him after that....

edit
P.S i saw your bio... YOU are the mower man!!!... stay out the trees... you obviously dont know what you are doing... want a lariat?


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## germy01 (Jan 31, 2012)

This is from the U of Minnesota on oak wilt and it includes pruning guide lines. Hope it helps.

Oak Wilt in Minnesota


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## boo (Jan 31, 2012)

wahlturfcare said:


> I have a customer of mine that I usually trim all of her oaks and hickory trees this time of year but we have been mostly in the 40's with barely any snow this winter. Now it has been in the 50's this past week and she want to wiat on pruning her trees as a local landscaper said if she has them prunned, her trees will end up dying.
> 
> Anyone ever hear of this?
> 
> ...



Sorry to sound like an ass... but you should have learned when and how to prune and care for trees before you started cutting on them in the 1st place. If you ever need teeth pulled, give me a call. I can remove those teeth in minutes... but I'm not so sure about how it will effect you.


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## capetrees (Jan 31, 2012)

Similar to what happens in spring, I've seen quite a few plants and trees starting to bud out considering the warmer that usual climate. This doesn't mean it's been warm for one day but when it's been in the 40's most of the winter and 50 degrees Feb 1st in the NE, somethings up. I was actually wondering the same thing about pruning considering whats happening weatherwise. I do realize winter is always the best time but this really isn't a normal winter.


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## mckeetree (Jan 31, 2012)

Sounds like the blind and uninformed leading the lost and clueless.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 1, 2012)

The, three vectors of Oak wilt are the nittledunad and other sap feeding bettles, root grafting, and transfer from wound to wound on infected saws and prunners, the bettle is dormate during nov-mid feb most years, 10 percent bleach and water solution to treat cutting tools, fungle matts only grow on the red oak,sub, infected ones should be cut down and burned or the wood should be in clear plastic, with the edges of the plastic buried so that atracted insects will be trapped inside.

8" is a large prune

As far as dormant Prunes vs Year round prunnig,
there is a scientest in Germany on one of the Arbor cast lectures through the ISA that picked up where Shigo left off, and shows how larger wound wood healed/sealed faster with less discoloration and vascular compartaintalization, when trimmed after budbreak or spring flush, as the paryncyma cells were active and ready to achieve maximum growth soonner than the non active cells in the dormate trees, also because of the transperrational pull after spring flush alows less entry of pathogens, and If proper cutts are made the branch collar will sear sooner wet, than dry when dormate, I will look for the arbor cast and post it . dormant only prunning is so out dated,
Paul


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## formationrx (Feb 1, 2012)

*rope*

thats interesting new info! ill have to check that out .... thanks mr!


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

ROPECLIMBER said:


> The, three vectors of Oak wilt are the nittledunad and other sap feeding bettles, root grafting, and transfer from wound to wound on infected saws and prunners, the bettle is dormate during nov-mid feb most years, 10 percent bleach and water solution to treat cutting tools, fungle matts only grow on the red oak,sub, infected ones should be cut down and burned or the wood should be in clear plastic, with the edges of the plastic buried so that atracted insects will be trapped inside.
> 
> 8" is a large prune
> 
> ...



Makes sense, I would like to see that podcast.


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

wahlturfcare said:


> I have a customer of mine that I usually trim all of her oaks and hickory trees this time of year but we have been mostly in the 40's with barely any snow this winter. Now it has been in the 50's this past week and she want to wiat on pruning her trees as a local landscaper said if she has them prunned, her trees will end up dying.
> 
> Anyone ever hear of this?
> 
> ...


 Go ahead and prune them, the big thing is waiting for the bugs to go dormant. We now have had enough cold (below freezing) nights in a row to be realtvly safe. There is never any guaranteeing, working them in the winter, according to old school, just gives them the best chance to avoid the bugs. It is a mind trip with the weather we are having, for sure. Good to ask before moving in. i just started oaks after that last spell, not sure what county ur in, but here and muscatine county made national news a coupe years ago about the wilt, real bad here in the tree stands, sat pics of the large wooded areas in the middle of summer showed thousands of brown canopy's,the individual normally doesn't have a chance if worked in the summer, as we have lots of wilt in the woods, ya cut, bugs come out like a caged lion to feed on that precious sap. I don't see a lot of root action, most of the wilt I see is on urban trees that are by themselves, so the bugs be the cause.We had one that may be infected via the roots, we trenched and will see this spring. Last year we took 21 oaks out due to wilt, all of them had been pruned in the summer. So, although I like the post about the podcast, it does happen, depending on your area and the micro climate around the tree. If your out on a farm far, away from others, good chance, next to a large wooded area full of dead oak, no chance. 
So, to make it easy, when talkin bout wilt, the tree doesn't care what the temp is, the bugs do.

Landscrapers are the worst, always look at the strip mall trees and how they have been totally mutilated. Seen a guy using a hedge trimmer on a crab apple

To the OP, not sure what you mean with the 8". Any wound can be infected and all wounds effect the tree, no matter how small. That is a big piece to be taking for a prune, especially if you are hitting them every year. Why are you hitting them all the time? Need to give the trees some time to recover. I wait at least a couple years, even on restorations, do a bit, wait for a while, do a bit, wait for a while.....repeat. 
That all being said, this thread should be moved to Plant Health or 101


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 1, 2012)

New C.O.D.I.T. 35 years later, Audio arborpod by Dr. Dujesiefken, wish it was a video he referes to visials all throuought the pod cast,

http://www.isapodcast.com/pod/ISA_SoA016_101510.mp3

Paul


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

yeah, wish there was a vid with this? I am real interested in this, would like to see what he is pointing out!


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## Bigus Termitius (Feb 1, 2012)

ROPECLIMBER said:


> The, three vectors of Oak wilt are the nittledunad and other sap feeding bettles, root grafting, and transfer from wound to wound on infected saws and prunners, the bettle is dormate during nov-mid feb most years, 10 percent bleach and water solution to treat cutting tools, fungle matts only grow on the red oak,sub, infected ones should be cut down and burned or the wood should be in clear plastic, with the edges of the plastic buried so that atracted insects will be trapped inside.
> 
> 8" is a large prune
> 
> ...



Interesting stuff, Paul, but it sounds a bit sketchy still.

_*also because of the transperrational pull after spring flush alows less entry of pathogens *_

I'm not sure that "less entry" is going to be enough to convince me to prune at a time when I cannot eliminate all vectors, and the beetles are most active. If I lose a grove of oaks, the client is "so" not going to want to hear a thing about some german scientist.

As far as sealing is concerned I can certainly see the point there, but will "sooner" really be fast enough to make an impact. Is it really worth the risk of opening up a tree at that time and essentially putting blood in the water for the beetles?

Again, too sketchy for me to call dormant pruning "outdated."

I'm always open to new research and technology, but I tend to hold on to what is tried and true for a bit, so as not to be tossed to and fro with new waves of doctrine. It needs to be proven, not just theorized with broad and loose terminology. Will the ISA back me up in a court of law? Maybe? Pay for the trees? I'm going to say...No.

I'm not going to call bogus, but I'm in the midst of oak wilt territory. I'd like to see our german scientist come on out here and test his theories with his pocketbook. I want him to put his money where his mouth is, so to speak. Historically, not all german scientists give a thought to the repercussions of their ideas. Just saying. 

I don't mean to sound contentious, I'm willing to listen and learn, but the implications of mistakes made with this information can ruin a man. So forgive me if I come off a bit coarse.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 1, 2012)

Bigus Termitius,
I felt it was understood not to trim Oaks in the beetle swarm, here in Texas the bettles are dormit in july and august do to extreeme heat, my point of bringing up the pod cast is to educate the HO and others on new tecnology as to prunnig deceduous trees other than oaks, and the prunning of trees that have always thought best prune in dec and jan, we cant make all the hay in 2 months so prune the oaks nov - Jan then July and Aug and others year round as needed, my point was to bring up scientific research to use to sell year round prunning depending on species, 
Paul
PS after listening to this fresh I got some of it mixed up as to his mechanical wound dressing to keep cells alive, and such, the transperation only happens wheen leaves are producing,


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## Toddppm (Feb 1, 2012)

I know we're online hanging out at the board and informal here but damn man, all of this would be more convincing with a little proper speeling!


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

I couldn't finish, cant stand listening to something that I should be seeing, just a pet peeve! I agree with Big T, very interested, but why was this not pushed out right away, something this big, if universality supported, I would think would be huge news and everyone would know it by now. Would like to see the vid that goes along with that audio. He said it was in the Arborist News, but cant find it.


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## treemandan (Feb 1, 2012)

I wish I had me an oak to prune right about now. Not to cold, not to hot. Truly good oak pruning weather.
Good weather to pull a cracked norway off the wires the Dan Murphy way... that would be extreme and precise to those of you who don't know what the Dan Murphy way is ( aka Murphy's Way) ( oh boy, I think I started a trend, at least I hope so) and a typical rig up, notch, drop and get rid of it to those that do... know that is.
With about the third of the trunk ripped out and gone and what's left leaning over the wires it should be fun. Its bare now, no leaf weight to contend with, wood is wet, the DZ is opened up, the garden is sleeping. Gonna triangulate this one down, gonna make history... again... or a phone call to the ins company.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 1, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> I couldn't finish, cant stand listening to something that I should be seeing, just a pet peeve! I agree with Big T, very interested, but why was this not pushed out right away, something this big, if universality supported, I would think would be huge news and everyone would know it by now. Would like to see the vid that goes along with that audio. He said it was in the Arborist News, but cant find it.



I agree, my Imagination went hay wire, like prunning an imaginary tree. I took intrest in the pod-cast because I liked Alex Shigo. His way of explaining technical stuff normally above my level,without making me feel like a total retard.This guy is hard to listen to at best,and without being there on the front row, leaves a lot of questions.

Sorry to get off topic. 
Oak wilt has spread into the north side of San Antonio a lot in the last few years, and we havent had a winter to speak of in a long time, came home from Colorado last November, to 80 degrees ,bugs at the porch light, all the bugs froze out long before in Colorado. 
Toddppm, Thanks I would rather be corrected, on my spelling and tree knowledge, here than not even know later, on a tree proposal.
Paul,


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## Slvrmple72 (Feb 1, 2012)

Been pruning oaks now and I have pruned them when I should not have after the leaves are out in the spring. Been spraying the cuts with brown latex paint for years. Mucks up dem beetles good. Haven't seen any of those bettles.... 

Go big or go home Treemandan.... hope ya Murphinate that Norway good!


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## treeclimber101 (Feb 1, 2012)

Toddppm said:


> I know we're online hanging out at the board and informal here but damn man, all of this would be more convincing with a little proper speeling!



There are a few fellows that post here frum time 2 timme that I wood love to sea one:msp_scared: of theer estimates thet theys preasent to tere custumers nuffing screems pro like missspellin..


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> There are a few fellows that post here frum time 2 timme that I wood love to sea one:msp_scared: of theer estimates thet theys preasent to tere custumers nuffing screems pro like missspellin..


LOL, I know your both talking about me! Don't worry, the spelling is correct when it comes to the money. Its not so much a spelling thing as much as it is a typing thing. Sometimes I go back and edit, sometimes I don't.ps:


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## Bigus Termitius (Feb 2, 2012)

ROPECLIMBER said:


> Bigus Termitius,
> I felt it was understood not to trim Oaks in the beetle swarm, here in Texas the bettles are dormit in july and august do to extreeme heat, my point of bringing up the pod cast is to educate the HO and others on new tecnology as to prunnig deceduous trees other than oaks, and the prunning of trees that have always thought best prune in dec and jan, we cant make all the hay in 2 months so prune the oaks nov - Jan then July and Aug and others year round as needed, my point was to bring up scientific research to use to sell year round prunning depending on species,
> Paul
> PS after listening to this fresh I got some of it mixed up as to his mechanical wound dressing to keep cells alive, and such, the transperation only happens wheen leaves are producing,



I see, given the thread topic, the nature of your post, and an extremely difficult to listen to rambling german (some are easier to hear than others), you can see where I was getting that impression from you. At least now that it is cleared up, no one else should get the wrong idea either.

I'm sure zere is somezing to learn from ze german, but I think I'll have to read his text instead.


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## Bigus Termitius (Feb 2, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> LOL, I know your both talking about me! Don't worry, the spelling is correct when it comes to the money. Its not so much a spelling thing as much as it is a typing thing. Sometimes I go back and edit, sometimes I don't.ps:



That all depends on the tacos. :msp_wink:


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 2, 2012)

I cant find anything, lots of google results, but nothing to relate to this, that you can read anyways, cant read German, von voot de micharasta, eg nufuhagendos, Tacosarguud


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## Toddppm (Feb 2, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> LOL, I know your both talking about me! Don't worry, the spelling is correct when it comes to the money. Its not so much a spelling thing as much as it is a typing thing. Sometimes I go back and edit, sometimes I don't.ps:



Hah, not at all. The dude spelt doormint 3 different ways in one paragraff!


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## Ed Roland (Feb 2, 2012)

The ISA BMP revised 2008 says “Growth is maximized and defects are easier to see if live-branch pruning is done in the winter or before growth resumes in early spring.” 

But, all us experienced and knowledgeable arboriculturalist understand that dormant trees have a very limited ability to produce barrier zones.

It makes complete sense then, when vectors are not an issue, to prune trees when cells are most active. German rules and regulations for arborists supports summer live wood pruning while the American National Standards support live wood pruning during winter dormancy. Dr. Dujesiefken is giving us great data. :msp_thumbup:


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