# Modding The MS261



## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

I just wondered what you guys think about this concept?

I've got a brand spanking new one on my bench and I've studied this saw extensively over the last few days. It has some serious restrictions IMHO......some things about it's design that make serious woods port gains hard to achieve.

I just would like to get some input from my peers........


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## TK (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I just wondered what you guys think about this concept?
> 
> I've got a brand spanking new one on my bench and I've studied this saw extensively over the last few days. It has some serious restrictions IMHO......some things about it's design that make serious woods port gains hard to achieve.
> 
> I just would like to get some input from my peers........



I think you should make a cutaway model of it and show us what you mean.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

TK said:


> I think you should make a cutaway model of it and show us what you mean.



If I could get some funding from the viewers I'd be all over that.


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## deye223 (Feb 4, 2012)

TK said:


> I think you should make a cutaway model of it and show us what you mean.



hahaha yep you funny:haha:

don't forget the red yellow and blue paint for relevant cuts


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## TK (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> If I could get some funding from the viewers I'd be all over that.



Don't be shy now, we know you can do it. 261's are a dime a dozen anyway


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## deye223 (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I just would like to get some input from my peers........



well ya got some input but peers !!!!!!!!!!


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## Stumpys Customs (Feb 4, 2012)

Are they the same port design as the 362??


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

Did you see the thread where I modded mine? That 261 can be made to run like a 70cc saw. It does require more work than any other saw I port. I did mine progressively, so you can see what it really took to get the most out of it. Everyone that ran it was amazed that a saw that small could make that kind of power.

[video=youtube_share;HxMPgN_2Mvs]http://youtu.be/HxMPgN_2Mvs[/video]


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I just wondered what you guys think about this concept?
> 
> I've got a brand spanking new one on my bench and I've studied this saw extensively over the last few days. It has some serious restrictions IMHO......some things about it's design that make serious woods port gains hard to achieve.
> 
> I just would like to get some input from my peers........



i dont have any input, but I have a 261 almost new I can send you when my MS460 is done!


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

Here's the thread, LINK. Basically, it requires gutting all the dividers in the intake tract that make it a strato. Anything less will not get you the most gains. It was still 100% a work saw after these mods, and is still running great today. Timing advance is a critical piece as well.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 4, 2012)

i have been waitin on this for a month! turn on some ac/dc and do what you do brother!


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## Jwalker1911 (Feb 4, 2012)

those mods would work nicely on my 026


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## sgrizz (Feb 4, 2012)

I just got one last week and used a half a tank of gas so far . I am excited that you are thinking of maybe putting one under the knife . When brad did his i was saying to myself what do i need my ms362 for? So i say go for it mastermind.


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## komatsuvarna (Feb 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Did you see the thread where I modded mine? That 261 can be made to run like a 70cc saw. It does require more work than any other saw I port. I did mine progressively, so you can see what it really took to get the most out of it. Everyone that ran it was amazed that a saw that small could make that kind of power.



Thats pretty impressive for a 50cc saw......:msp_thumbsup:


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## Jwalker1911 (Feb 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Did you see the thread where I modded mine? That 261 can be made to run like a 70cc saw. It does require more work than any other saw I port. I did mine progressively, so you can see what it really took to get the most out of it. Everyone that ran it was amazed that a saw that small could make that kind of power.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;HxMPgN_2Mvs]http://youtu.be/HxMPgN_2Mvs[/video]



that is pretty impressive


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## sunfish (Feb 4, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Thats pretty impressive for a 50cc saw......:msp_thumbsup:



When ya fill the strato system with fuel mix, it's a game changer.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

I tried to avoid gutting the strato dividers, but I just couldn't get the gains I wanted. It definately made it come alive. 

The divider has to come out of the carb, which requires partial disassembly of the carb. There's also one inside the carb, between the butterflies that has to come out.






The divider has to be cut and ground out of the rubber intake. 










Then, a LOT of material has to come out of the intake on the cylinder. 
It starts like this.





And ends up like this.










There's plenty of room to widen the intake. Just watch the one ring end.





Plenty of room to widen the exhaust.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

I widen both the transfers and the strato intake duct.





There's no need for a popup.





I also take some of the dividers out of the filter adapter, but have no pictures of that.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

I hate to cut up a saw that badly Brad. 


I tried to read your thread on that saw but it is so filled with bull#### that I gave up. 


So......no way could you make it really run without killing the strato function?


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I hate to cut up a saw that badly Brad.
> 
> 
> I tried to read your thread on that saw but it is so filled with bull#### that I gave up.
> ...



That's why I summed it up here for you. Sure, it'll make gains with the strato left intact, but not like it can have. I started out with it left intact and wasn't happy with it. You can certainly give it a try, and can always go back in for more. That's what I did.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That's why I summed it up here for you. Sure, it'll make gains with the strato left intact, but not like it can have. I started out with it left intact and wasn't happy with it. You can certainly give it a try, and can always go back in for more. That's what I did.



From strato to non-strato........that just sucks.

I do appreciate your thoughts on this saw Brad. 


I do like the 562xp more everyday.


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## Jwalker1911 (Feb 4, 2012)

These threads are so cool you guys put some great information out even for someone with no clue on porting it is amazing to see the skill you guys have


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## Slamm (Feb 4, 2012)

The 261 with just advancing the timing and muffler modding is a small beast, I can't imagine that modest/correct porting and leaving the strato's intact couldn't make an improved version of itself, by allowing for good gains, while keeping the strato's fuel efficiency and cleaner burning design intact.

While I have no doubt port work like Brad's makes for a fine speed or cookie cutting saw, I can't see it as being efficient, as an overall production saw. While no doubt that design it filling the cylinder with maximum fuel mix, its also likely dumping a decent amount of mix out the muffler without being burned (= waste).

I have a question about porting the strato ports, what good is it to open the openings in the cylinder if you can't open the "tunnels" themselves, it would seem to lower the air/mix velocity? Just wondering.

My non-porting experienced opinion,

Sam


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## Terry Syd (Feb 4, 2012)

I suspect that some of the problem that Brad ran into was because of the four-port design of the Stihl. The ports come up at a steep angle close to the cylinder and then turn sharply into the cylinder. I saw a picture of a piston crown with carbon and I didn't like the flow patterns at all. It is hard to figure out what is going on - short-circuiting, mixing and whatever.

It appears that by compromising the Stihl strato function that all four ports can then just try and bulk flow the cylinder to make up for the unusual flow patterns.

Chainsaws don't require the larger transfer time/area of high performance two-strokes. Two transfer ports is enough for them to flow. The Husky design is brilliant as it is simplistic, the two ports get that freight train of gases moving horizonal and towards the back of the cylinder before it even gets close to the transfer port.

I also don't like the split carb system. I'm a fan of the dual intake and strato system. By having the carb work separately, the idle and low-speed velocity through the carb is sufficiently high that a much larger carb can be used on the intake. When combined with the later opening strato butterfly, the dual system can carry a much larger area of intake to feed the larger area of the strato design.

I don't know Randy, perhaps you can study the piston crown to try and figure out if my impressions are correct - and if so, what sort of tweeks you can make to help the flow.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

Slamm said:


> The 261 with just advancing the timing and muffler modding is a small beast, I can't imagine that modest/correct porting and leaving the strato's intact couldn't make an improved version of itself, by allowing for good gains, while keeping the strato's fuel efficiency and cleaner burning design intact.
> 
> While I have no doubt port work like Brad's makes for a fine speed or cookie cutting saw, I can't see it as being efficient, as an overall production saw. While no doubt that design it filling the cylinder with maximum fuel mix, its also likely dumping a decent amount of mix out the muffler without being burned (= waste).
> 
> ...






Terry Syd said:


> I suspect that some of the problem that Brad ran into was because of the four-port design of the Stihl. The ports come up at a steep angle close to the cylinder and then turn sharply into the cylinder. I saw a picture of a piston crown with carbon and I didn't like the flow patterns at all. It is hard to figure out what is going on - short-circuiting, mixing and whatever.
> 
> It appears that by compromising the Stihl strato function that all four ports can then just try and bulk flow the cylinder to make up for the unusual flow patterns.
> 
> ...



This saw is for a customer, and my customer has one desire. His words to me were this....."whatever makes the most grunt". I do not like the idea of disabling the strato function in this saw but.........I'm building a saw for grunt.

I applaud Brad for wading in and cutting the hell outta a brand new saw to find out what would work the best to add that grunt. I've studied his work and think I may have a few things to add that will help. We will see. 

I agree with Terry and Sam here.

Terry's assessment of Husqvarna's strato design mirrors my own. Simple yet very effective. 

Feeding the stratos and the intake through the carb is a bad idea for Stihl IMHO.

Sam's statement about keeping the strato's fuel efficient design is the same way I feel about this. Though I don't think this saw is a good example of what can be done with the strato saw. I also feel that just opening the ports at the bore is a waste of time and could even cause the build to go backward.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 4, 2012)

Actually, the 261 Brad modded in that thread was still quite efficient after he modded it. He traded it to me and I was able to run several tanks through it.
I was getting right an hour or just a hair shy of an hour cut time on one tank. Unfortunately I had to have emergency surgery about three weeks after I 
got it and had to sell it. I wish I still had it. It ran great and had a fine power band. True, it wasn't a strato anymore but it ran clean.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> Actually, the 261 Brad modded in that thread was still quite efficient after he modded it. He traded it to me and I was able to run several tanks through it.
> I was getting right an hour or just a hair shy of an hour cut time on one tank. Unfortunately I had to have emergency surgery about three weeks after I
> got it and had to sell it. I wish I still had it. It ran great and had a fine power band. True, it wasn't a strato anymore but it ran clean.



Welp I'm building another one.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

I dropped the jug .025 to add timing to the intake without changing the relationship or height of the ports in the jug. This method works well for me on many saws. It normally adds 7-8 degrees of duration to the strato and intake ports.












I had to cut about .010 out of the squish band to get the squish at .018. Also notice the notches in the cylinder walls I made to unshroud to front lower transfers. The shape of the piston skirt is higher on the exhaust side so I could open that area up some without the piston going below the wall. 






I raised the exhaust a few degrees and widened the port at the bore and the flange. Yeah that will get polished. 






This pile is the amount of aluminum that I removed from the intake/strato divider.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

Here's one thing I don't like about the MS261. It has that damn cheesy little mini spline and tiny clutch drum bearing. 






A shot of the exhaust as I as tearing it down.






I told you that would get polished.....


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## mdavlee (Feb 4, 2012)

I was looking at one fo these today at a dealer. I'll be watching the results of this build here to see what you get and how you like it after. I wonder if it will take a 346?:help:


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I was looking at one fo these today at a dealer. I'll be watching the results of this build here to see what you get and how you like it after. I wonder if it will take a 346?:help:



I never started the saw before I dug into it Mike. I've ran several others stock and muffler modded so I thought.......why get it dirty????? 

The only problem I've had so far is with the choke. After removing the divider it has no stop at fully open. 


I'll figure something out though.


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## mdavlee (Feb 4, 2012)

I don't blame you on the getting it dirty. They seem to make good power from what I've seen and other peoples reviews. I might have to come visit when I get home.


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## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I don't blame you on the getting it dirty. They seem to make good power from what I've seen and other peoples reviews. *I might have to come visit when I get home.*



Anytime my friend. Give me a heads up and I'll drop us a few trees to buck up.


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## mdavlee (Feb 4, 2012)

I'll have to take you up on that Randy. Might even have to bring a saw to machine on a little. :msp_thumbup:


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2012)

Subscribed on this thread! :msp_thumbup:


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## Rudolf73 (Feb 4, 2012)

Can't wait to see how she runs Randy


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I never started the saw before I dug into it Mike. I've ran several others stock and muffler modded so I thought.......why get it dirty?????
> 
> The only problem I've had so far is with the choke. After removing the divider it has no stop at fully open.
> 
> ...



Ahh, the choke deal. I forgot about that. I simply run a tiny screw the plastic to stop the linkage from over traveling. Sorry I don't have a pic.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Ahh, the choke deal. I forgot about that. I simply run a tiny screw the plastic to stop the linkage from over traveling. Sorry I don't have a pic.



I was thinking the same thing. Any concern of the screw coming loose or is it snug as a bug in a rug?


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Any concern of the screw coming loose or is it snug as a bug in a rug?



I use a tiny wood screw and do not use a drill bit. It holds tight and works great.

Randy, the 261 that I owned and traded to JJ had a Zama C3M carb for a 044 on it


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## Iron Head (Feb 5, 2012)

I have this saw and can't wait to see the progress of your mod.


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## Stihl Crazy (Feb 5, 2012)

Subscribing myself. Brought a new MS261 yesterday. Want it modified in the spring.


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## MCW (Feb 5, 2012)

Subscribing


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## Mastermind (Feb 5, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I use a tiny wood screw and do not use a drill bit. It holds tight and works great.
> 
> Randy, the 261 that I owned and traded to JJ had a Zama C3M carb for a 044 on it



I have a few C3Ms here but I don't think the owner wants to go quite that far......


I like the idea though.


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## deye223 (Feb 6, 2012)

it will be interesting to see the difference between brads and this one with the standard carby

smaller venturi and less fuel delivery


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2012)

deye223 said:


> it will be interesting to see the difference between brads and this one with the standard carby
> 
> smaller venturi and less fuel delivery



It has a pretty large venturi for a 50cc saw as it is. 

I also haven't dramatically altered the port timing either. I think it will be plenty happy with this carb.

In the build thread that Brad did he went a long way toward trying to make it a screamer with the strato intact. Having his first attempt as a guide is helping me go in a different route. This saw is going to have much more conservative timing numbers in this first round of mods. 

Compression should be in the 190-195 range as well. I've found that with this sort of compression high intake timing isn't always necessary. 

I


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## deye223 (Feb 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It has a pretty large venturi for a 50cc saw as it is.
> 
> I also haven't dramatically altered the port timing either. I think it will be plenty happy with this carb.
> 
> ...



sounds touqey


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2012)

deye223 said:


> sounds touqey



In my mind that's what pulls the chain.


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## jropo (Feb 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I widen both the transfers and the strato intake duct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This was the stock comp.? :msp_ohmy:


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## deye223 (Feb 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> In my mind that's what pulls the chain.



thats it . randy what camara do you use the pics arn't bad


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2012)

jropo said:


> This was the stock comp.? :msp_ohmy:



That was after pulling the base gasket I believe.



deye223 said:


> thats it . randy what camara do you use the pics arn't bad



I use an old Canon A20. Not a great camera by today's standards, but it has optical zoom and macro settings. Top of the line about 85 years ago.


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## deye223 (Feb 6, 2012)

dose alright


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## jropo (Feb 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That was after pulling the base gasket I believe.
> 
> What was the stock comp. on yours?


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2012)

jropo said:


> What was the stock comp. on yours?



Good question. 

I started taking this saw apart "for a look" and well............... :msp_sneaky:


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## jropo (Feb 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Good question.
> 
> I started taking this saw apart "for a look" and well............... :msp_sneaky:



:hmm3grin2orange: 

It happins, newer saw, it ran.
Just wondering if these are one of those saws that come stock w/ above average comp.?


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## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2012)

Yes, these have high compression right out of the box.


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## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2012)

Just a word of caution on the stock carb, I ruined my original opening up the venturi. Perhaps the metal is thinner here than on some others.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Just a word of caution on the stock carb, I ruined my original opening up the venturi. Perhaps the metal is thinner here than on some others.



I just smoothed out some of the notching that was used to hold the divider plate. 

Cutting that stuff outta the intake boot was a pain in the ass. :msp_sneaky:


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## diggers_dad (Feb 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That was after pulling the base gasket I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> I use an old Canon A20. Not a great camera by today's standards, but it has optical zoom and macro settings. Top of the line about 85 years ago.



As long as the camera has a micro setting, it has everything to do with the one taking the pics. The newer cameras just cram more pixels into the same area as the old ones, which is not always a good thing. That A20 is a good camera by any standards.


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## SCHallenger (Feb 6, 2012)

Subscribing!!


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

diggers_dad said:


> As long as the camera has a micro setting, it has everything to do with the one taking the pics. The newer cameras just cram more pixels into the same area as the old ones, which is not always a good thing. That A20 is a good camera by any standards.



I have trouble with getting clear shots inside the bore......probably an operator error. :hmm3grin2orange:


The saw is running. I've not put it in wood yet though. It's tuned to 13,800 and sounds strong. 

I tried to find a deflector for the muffler that fit just right but had no luck. I ended up making my own.


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## Iron Head (Feb 7, 2012)

Did you do anything to improve the breathing?
I can't wait to see the cutting video!


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Iron Head said:


> Did you do anything to improve the breathing?
> I can't wait to see the cutting video!



Not a lot of port timing changes yet. I want to see where it's at with just a squish change and the strato dividers removed. The exhaust port was raised and widened too.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 7, 2012)

very interested in seeing how she runs brother. sounds like you're approaching this one a bit more cautiously than the others?


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## David (saltas) (Feb 7, 2012)

Randy did you do anything internal to the muffler or was it a simple cut the right size hole and put a screen and shroud over it ?

I cant remember who was asking about stock compression

Stock compression on mine was just over 175 psi 
not all gauges read the same so this is less than three percent lower than the 180 psi in brads picture


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> very interested in seeing how she runs brother. sounds like you're approaching this one a bit more cautiously than the others?



I've had really good results on the Husky 562XP with this same approach.....lowering the jug, and raising the exhaust. I just wanted to try that here to test a theory. 

Removing the strato dividers is a game changer though.



David (saltas) said:


> Randy did you do anything internal to the muffler or was it a simple cut the right size hole and put a screen and shroud over it ?
> 
> I cant remember who was asking about stock compression
> 
> ...



The muffler is hollow, so nothing else was needed, even the flange was nearly large enough to match my porting.


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

hanging on tenterhooks opcorn:


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

deye223 said:


> hanging on tenterhooks opcorn:



LOL.......I've got to go pick up some parts in town this morning. It's be later in the day before we get a log in the stand for testing. 

Sorry.


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

oh well it's 02:15 i'm gunna shut me eyes


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I've had really good results on the Husky 562XP with this same approach.....lowering the jug, and raising the exhaust. I just wanted to try that here to test a theory.
> 
> Removing the strato dividers is a game changer though.



gotcha! patiently waiting for chainsaw pron...


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## hqv (Feb 7, 2012)

:msp_biggrin:


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Videos are processing......... :msp_wink:


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

I have to say that this little saw is a pleasure to use. I ran a full tank of fuel through it today dropping and cutting up some small trees on my property. I needed to get these out of the way as they were shading my grapevines. 

The saw is a blast to use on this small stuff, it's running a 3/8" full chisel chain on a 16" bar. 


[video=youtube;IQ7iF7wtJP8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ7iF7wtJP8[/video]


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Here it is in larger wood.

[video=youtube;kdwoT3trG7Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdwoT3trG7Q[/video]

I could get more out of it without a doubt. The port timing is almost completely stock.


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## TK (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here it is in larger wood.
> 
> [video=youtube;kdwoT3trG7Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdwoT3trG7Q[/video]
> 
> I could get more out of it without a doubt. The port timing is almost completely stock.



Go back and get some more, it slowed down! :biggrin:


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## jropo (Feb 7, 2012)

I LIKE IT!!!!! 
Good lil fire wood saw.


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

looken good times i think 6.90 6.79 5.75 7.20 throtle response looks good too


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

good too see the young'en haveing a go start them young make better operator's that way


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 7, 2012)

thanks for the vids Randy! i like your new helper too. seems like he has it all under control.

are you thinkin about goin in for some more?


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## Bowtie (Feb 7, 2012)

So you havent even messed with the port timing yet? I have one as new as that one with new Stihl 3/8 RSC chain, just a healthy Muffler Mod, and that one looks faster by quite a bit. Hell I was impressed with mine stock, but thats sweet!


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## PLMCRZY (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks damn good 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

hey randy how much harder is hickory than pine


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> thanks for the vids Randy! i like your new helper too. seems like he has it all under control.
> 
> *are you thinkin about goin in for some more?*



That's up to the owner of the saw. I'm did this one for to see how it responds to mild mods.......I can go much further though.  



Bowtie said:


> So you havent even messed with the port timing yet? I have one as new as that one with new Stihl 3/8 RSC chain, just a healthy Muffler Mod, and that one looks faster by quite a bit. Hell I was impressed with mine stock, but thats sweet!



I've not changed the height of any ports except the exhaust. The stratos are gone though.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

deye223 said:


> hey randy how much harder is hickory than pine



About ten times harder. It's one of our hardest woods. After I did the one in walnut I hit a group of nails and toasted that chain (new off the roll). I touched it up and ran another tank through it. 

I like it just as it is....it has excellent throttle response and plenty of torque. I laid down hard on it to see how far down it would pull and keep cutting and it still pulled well down to 7000 rpm.


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> About ten times harder. It's one of our hardest woods. After I did the one in walnut I hit a group of nails and toasted that chain (new off the roll). I touched it up and ran another tank through it.
> 
> I like it just as it is....it has excellent throttle response and plenty of torque. I laid down hard on it to see how far down it would pull and keep cutting and it still pulled well down to 7000 rpm.



go on you no you want too go in and give it a kick in the balls and make it angry haha:waaaht:


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

has the timing been done


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

deye223 said:


> has the timing been done



Yes I advanced the ignition timing a few degrees.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

deye223 said:


> go on you no you want too go in and give it a kick in the balls and make it angry haha:waaaht:



I'll be giving it the full treatment then. 

Expect more videos........


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll be giving it the full treatment then.
> 
> Expect more videos........



oh not enough hour's in a day . looks like TN has two time zones on the time map if so wich are you in


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## Bowtie (Feb 7, 2012)

Randy what do you think just a timing advance could gain?


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Randy what do you think just a timing advance could gain?



A few hundred RPMs in the cut. I would expect 300-500, but can't give you an exact number. I actually advance them about 8°. That sounds like a lot, but it's only 1/3-1/2 of the key width. It doesn't take much!


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## deye223 (Feb 7, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Randy what do you think just a timing advance could gain?



i ain't randy but i would say about 10% to 15% ( but i will stand corrected)


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## Bowtie (Feb 7, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> A few hundred RPMs in the cut. I would expect 300-500, but can't give you an exact number. I actually advance them about 8°. That sounds like a lot, but it's only 1/3-1/2 of the key width. It doesn't take much!



Eliminate the flywheel key, or custom offset key?


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## bcorradi (Feb 7, 2012)

Shave the existing flywheel key to get your desired degrees of advancement.


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2012)

bcorradi said:


> Shave the existing flywheel key to get your desired degrees of advancement.



Exactly. Grab the part that goes in the keyway with a pair of Vise Grips. Then thin the part that sticks out with a cutoff wheel in your Dremel.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2012)

Actually, I believe the 261 has the key cast into the flywheel. I use a tiny burr and grind part of it out.


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## Bowtie (Feb 7, 2012)

:jester:


blsnelling said:


> Actually, I believe the 261 has the key cast into the flywheel. I use a tiny burr and grind part of it out.



:jester:


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That's up to the owner of the saw. I'm did this one for to see how it responds to mild mods.......I can go much further though.  .





deye223 said:


> go on you no you want too go in and give it a kick in the balls and make it angry haha:waaaht:





Mastermind said:


> I'll be giving it the full treatment then.
> 
> Expect more videos........



YEAH!!!! now it's a party!!!


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 7, 2012)

What size venturi is the stock carb? I note that Brad put a C3M on his modded 261, which I assume had the 17mm venturi.

These stratos have heaps of time/area for the intake cycle, it's what's upstream (carb, filter) that limits their ability to gulp a big charge of mixture.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Terry Syd said:


> What size venturi is the stock carb? I note that Brad put a C3M on his modded 261, which I assume had the 17mm venturi.
> 
> These stratos have heaps of time/area for the intake cycle, it's what's upstream (carb, filter) that limits their ability to gulp a big charge of mixture.



It's fairly large for a 50cc saw Terry. Thing is all the intake goes through the carb.


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## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2012)

Randy, did you tweak the flux capacitor or jingle the dinggledang'r? :msp_w00t:


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Randy, did you tweak the flux capacitor or jingle the dinggledang'r? :msp_w00t:



I can't be showing all my tricks. I will say that it's been Mooberized.


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## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I can't be showing all my tricks. I will say that it's been Mooberized.



*Like a Boss!*


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## Terry Syd (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the Stihl design doesn't have the dual intake/strato function, the velocity in a bigger carb could be low for the idle and low speed circuit. Although I recall members modding 346s with 357 carbs which have a 17mm venturi.

The advantage of the Husky with the dual system is that they can take the extra area quite easily, heck, I am running the equivalent of a 19mm carb on my little 50cc strato. Perhaps the 261 could take the extra area with some tweaking of the metering lever height and POP.

You've already increased the intake/strato duration by dropping the jug, you may want to give a bigger carb a try before you increase the timing anymore. Of course, it's the owner's call if he was willing to pay for another carb.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Terry Syd said:


> Yeah, it's unfortunate that the Stihl design doesn't have the split intake/strato function, the velocity in a bigger carb could be low for the idle and low speed circuit. Although I recall members modding 346s with 357 carbs which have a 17mm venturi.
> 
> The advantage of the Husky with the split system is that they can take the extra area quite easily, heck, I am running the equivalent of a 19mm carb on my little 50cc strato. Perhaps the 261 could take the extra area with some tweaking of the metering lever height and POP.
> 
> You've already increased the intake/strato duration by dropping the jug, you may want to give a bigger carb a try before you increase the timing anymore. Of course, it's the owner's call if he was willing to pay for another carb.



The carb's linkage is a bit different.......a simple swap it would not be. I'll be looking at all my options though.


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## Bowtie (Feb 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> The carb's linkage is a bit different.......a simple swap it would not be. I'll be looking at all my options though.



I not trying to butt in, but I make my own linkages out of what I think they call "piano rod" from the local Ace Hardware. It is sold in different sizes and is very strong. Maybe I am late to that trick, but it has worked for me very well.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I not trying to butt in, but I make my own linkages out of what I think they call "piano rod" from the local Ace Hardware. It is sold in different sizes and is very strong. Maybe I am late to that trick, but it has worked for me very well.



The 261 has a linkage that swivels and pushes the throttle around. I would have to swap the throttle shafts and also adapt the intellicarb metering cover from the 261 carb to the C3M.


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## Terry Syd (Feb 8, 2012)

"I'll be looking at all my options though ."

That sounds cryptic, perhaps you may be looking at a bit more transfer time/area to make up for the bit you lost when you dropped the jug?


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 8, 2012)

this thread is a prime example of why AS is so great. amazing info in this thread so far!!


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

Terry Syd said:


> "I'll be looking at all my options though ."
> 
> That sounds cryptic, perhaps you may be looking at a bit more transfer time/area to make up for the bit you lost when you dropped the jug?



You lost me Terry?

The transfers seem to be very large in area compared to say an 026.


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 8, 2012)

You had to loose some time/area when you dropped the jug, the piston now covers up more of the port opening at BDC. 

The engineers at Stihl designed the engine with a certain time/area of the transfers. If you were just dropping the rpm and going for torque, then a slight reduction in transfer time/area could work. However, if you are bumping up the cutting speed then you need to increase the time/area.

Here's what I wrote some time ago for those that missed it.

When you're looking at the maximum delivery ratio of the engine (max torque), the optimum time/area for a given RPM is when the flow from the crankcase just finishes getting into the cylinder and the transfer port closes.

Above that RPM there is less time available, so the flow doesn't have enough time and the port closes before all the mixture can get into the cylinder. That's when we see the torque start dropping, but the revs are still increasing so we still keep getting more work (horsepower) from the engine.

The opposite occurs when the revs drop below the maximum delivery point, the port stays open too long. The crankcase charge flows into the cylinder, but some of it gets sucked back out of the cylinder and down into the crankcase because the transfer port is still open while the piston is rising. We see that as a drop in torque as the revs drop.

So what I'm saying is that if you want to increase the cutting speed, you will have to increase the transfer time/area at least back to the stock time/area or even add a bit more.

As an aside, look what Husky has done to both the 555 and the 365XT, they have crimped the flow of the transfers to detune the engines. All they've done is moved the point of max torque (maximum delivery ratio of the transfers) lower in the RPM range.


----------



## bcorradi (Feb 8, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I not trying to butt in, but I make my own linkages out of what I think they call "piano rod" from the local Ace Hardware. It is sold in different sizes and is very strong. Maybe I am late to that trick, but it has worked for me very well.



Your the same guy that was trying to index a flywheel without a key ...imagine that.

Surely u can do it without a key, but it will take u a lot of trial and error.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 8, 2012)

bcorradi said:


> Your the same guy that was trying to index a flywheel without a key ...imagine that.
> 
> Surely u can do it without a key, but it will take u a lot of trial and error.



Aww gee, thanks for that.

I am well aware how to advance timing. I was asking the question to people who have actually done it on a 261!


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 8, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> The 261 has a linkage that swivels and pushes the throttle around. I would have to swap the throttle shafts and also adapt the intellicarb metering cover from the 261 carb to the C3M.



Gotta love stratos! Got me curious, Im gonna have another look at my 261.


----------



## TK (Feb 8, 2012)

So far in this thread I've heard that this saw is no longer a strato due to mods...... So the gotta love stratos comments are kind of moot at this point when that feature needs to be disabled in order to get this power :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## deye223 (Feb 8, 2012)

hey randy one thing i forgot to ask how long did it run on a tank


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

Terry Syd said:


> You had to loose some time/area when you dropped the jug, the piston now covers up more of the port opening at BDC.
> 
> The engineers at Stihl designed the engine with a certain time/area of the transfers. If you were just dropping the rpm and going for torque, then a slight reduction in transfer time/area could work. However, if you are bumping up the cutting speed then you need to increase the time/area.
> 
> ...



Good stuff as always Terry, I see what you mean now. 

The comment I made about "all my options" was just that......I'll be looking at this saw now as a non-strato and raising the transfer ports is definitely on the table. I'll also most likely raise the exhaust a few more degrees. 

I'll be felling another pine so I can get consistent cuts though. The hardwood is too inconsistent to make measurable timed cuts and gauge my progress in. 

This saw will probably set my schedule back a few days but I'm committed to learning the proper way to build the 261 as a woodsported saw. :msp_mellow:



TK said:


> So far in this thread I've heard that this saw is no longer a strato due to mods...... So the gotta love stratos comments are kind of moot at this point when that feature needs to be disabled in order to get this power :hmm3grin2orange:



Go ahead and say what you really want to Tom............ 

When it comes to stratos......Husky rules.


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

deye223 said:


> hey randy one thing i forgot to ask how long did it run on a tank



Longer than I wanted to run it. :msp_thumbup:

Without changing the carb I doubt we'll lose too much of the fuel economy.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 8, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Longer than I wanted to run it. :msp_thumbup:
> 
> thats what me mate says about his lawn mower i told him to buy a couple of sheep


----------



## TK (Feb 8, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Go ahead and say what you really want to Tom............
> 
> When it comes to stratos......Husky rules.




:taped: Not me man, me gon nevah dun said them word right thurrr...


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

TK said:


> :taped: Not me man, me gon nevah dun said them word right thurrr...



I'll say it for ya then.......... :msp_thumbup:


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## Bowtie (Feb 8, 2012)

TK said:


> So far in this thread I've heard that this saw is no longer a strato due to mods...... So the gotta love stratos comments are kind of moot at this point when that feature needs to be disabled in order to get this power :hmm3grin2orange:



Gotta love stratos. What I was referring to was the carb setup. I read in previous posts that it was no longer a strato with what was done to it.


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

[video=youtube;xMDoa8O-cNU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDoa8O-cNU[/video]

[video=youtube;JlivrJIhjwQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlivrJIhjwQ[/video]


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## jropo (Feb 8, 2012)

:msp_thumbup:

Now, tell me that there is a 346 on your bench right now! :tongue2::msp_mellow:


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## Bowtie (Feb 8, 2012)

jropo said:


> :msp_thumbup:
> 
> Now, tell me that there is a 346 on your bench right now! :tongue2::msp_mellow:



SSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I was hoping to hear New MS460 on the bench! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Showme (Feb 8, 2012)

Sweet running saw. I gotta say I like mine a lot. I could most likely get by without even needing anything bigger.


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## deye223 (Feb 8, 2012)

randy i'm thinking that is a 16" b&c if so the pine round is about 14" mmmmm not bad my 260 on 14" pine 13.5 seconds
261 on 14" pine 6.2 both with stihl RSC 3/8 
looks bloody good to me. got a vid if you wan't too see it


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## bayard (Feb 8, 2012)

*260 pro*

can the same gains be had with a 260 pro? k


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## blsnelling (Feb 8, 2012)

Randy, put some .325 RSC on there and make another vid. I think your 3/8 chain is pulling it down. I think you're too rich too.

[video=youtube_share;kyh-CU13Woc]http://youtu.be/kyh-CU13Woc[/video]


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, put some .325 RSC on there and make another vid. I think your 3/8 chain is pulling it down. I think you're too rich too.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;kyh-CU13Woc]http://youtu.be/kyh-CU13Woc[/video]



That was just with the mild work I had done Brad. I've been back in it now......raised the transfers, more unshrouding, and bored the tunnels a bit. I've still not touched the intake.....

I don't have any .325 bars. 

More videos tomorrow.


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2012)

bayard said:


> can the same gains be had with a 260 pro? k



Yes but the carb would have to be swapped.


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## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

she's a 3/8 saw tuned fat for touqe. i tryed .325 here and no good thats why the ms460 and the 390xp have .404 cheers


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## Jwalker1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That was just with the mild work I had done Brad. I've been back in it now......raised the transfers, more unshrouding, and bored the tunnels a bit. I've still not touched the intake.....
> 
> I don't have any .325 bars.
> 
> More videos tomorrow.



Ive got a 325 bar but its off an 025


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## bcorradi (Feb 9, 2012)

I'd personally run .325 also. Deye u may want to run .404 or 1/2" on the 261?


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## bcorradi (Feb 9, 2012)

Jwalker1911 said:


> Ive got a 325 bar but its off an 025


Ya that will not work.


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## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

bcorradi said:


> I'd personally run .325 also. Deye u may want to run .404 or 1/2" on the 261?



after randy's finished with it will probably pull it HAHA


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## SawTroll (Feb 9, 2012)

I just can't understand why anyone care about how that thurd of an heavy and badly handling 50cc saw can be modded to perform at all! :yoyo::yoyo:


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 9, 2012)

bcorradi said:


> I'd personally run .325 also. Deye u may want to run .404 or 1/2" on the 261?



Of course .325 will perform best, with Oregon LPX or Stihl RSC - no doubt about that! :biggrin:


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## MCW (Feb 9, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Of course .325 will perform best, with Oregon LPX or Stihl RSC - no doubt about that! :biggrin:



That is not the case at all Sawtroll and a common misconception with those cutting nothing but clean, softer woods. .325" chain won't last two minutes in most of the wood that Darren cuts. My stock MS261 was more than happy running a 20" 3/8" Tsumura with non skip semi chisel. This modified saw will do it easily. Don't underestimate the torque that the strato saws have as they do not perform anywhere near like a standard 50cc saw. The 261 wasn't my favourite saw but one thing it had in spades was plenty of torque.


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 9, 2012)

Im with you Matt even in stock form running 3/8 with a muff modd ideal for me topping and felling smallish Sugargum plantasions.:msp_thumbsup:


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## MCW (Feb 9, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> Im with you Matt even in stock form running 3/8 with a muff modd ideal for me topping and felling smallish Sugargum plantasions.:msp_thumbsup:



Yeah mate. I run .325" on my little Husky 353 and prefer it whereas I did the .325"/3/8" comparo on my 5100-S and preferred 3/8" and it proved to be faster in my situation (semi chisel and hardwoods).
I ran 3/8" on my 261 and it had no issues at all. I'm sure leaned out and screaming it's tits off .325" might be faster on a 261 than 3/8" but lean loses torque.


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 9, 2012)

MCW said:


> That is not the case at all Sawtroll and a common misconception with those cutting nothing but clean, softer woods. .325" chain won't last two minutes in most of the wood that Darren cuts. My stock MS261 was more than happy running a 20" 3/8" Tsumura with non skip semi chisel. This modified saw will do it easily. Don't underestimate the torque that the strato saws have as they do not perform anywhere near like a standard 50cc saw. The 261 wasn't my favourite saw but one thing it had in spades was plenty of torque.



Well, I believe that your conditions are very different from what most of the members experience, and slow grown "moutain birch" isn't that soft, even though it is "clean and green"!
IME a 3/8 setup always slow the cutting down a bit on 50cc saws, but not enough to really matter in practical cutting - but then the saws gets less nice to cut with, because of the added weight of the 3/8 setup.


----------



## MCW (Feb 9, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Well, I believe that your conditions are very different from what most of the members experience, and slow grown "moutain birch" isn't that soft, even though it is "clean and green"!
> IME a 3/8 setup always slow the cutting down a bit on 50cc saws, but not enough to really matter in practical cutting - but then the saws gets less nice to cut with, because of the added weight of the 3/8 setup.



Hey normally I would agree Niko but the strato MS261 does not behave like any 50cc you would have used. I liked the snap and better throttle response of both my Husky 353 and Dolmar 5100-S but as far as torque went the 261 pumped both of them considerably. In fact it was quite freaky that a 50cc saw could pull a 20" 3/8" bar buried in some pretty tough hardwood with a fair bit of pressure on it and continue cutting - I did however have to richen this saw up considerably as it was gutless and way too lean from the factory.
I do prefer .325" for limbing as it's a lot smoother and it is actually a nice chain to use however too many people on AS simply assume that .325" is faster without actually doing the comparo themselves in their particular conditions. "Fast" also has to take into account the amount of extra time spent sharpening .325" if the conditions get even slightly abrasive. In Darren's case with sand impregnated Stringybark assuming .325" is faster is plain wrong and after all, that's where this saw is going to be used.
I love cookie cutting and the associated videos as much as anybody but there is "cookie fast" and "real world fast". They are quite often different.


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 9, 2012)

There is more than one reason i use 3/8 .063 on my 261 with an 18'' bar.
All chains are the same.
One file does all.
Can change bars if nead be.
Another thing i found good for what i do is the 3/8 sprocket is larger in dia than the .325 thus increase chain speed slightly.
I have even found a slightly aggressive full chisel chain in clean green (soft for us )Sugargum is sweet to use felling and topping the plantasion trees.

Ya feel for Darren and his sandy Stringbarks,could be more fun if it was sandy Yellowbox.:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

bcorradi said:


> I'd personally run .325 also. Deye u may want to run .404 or 1/2" on the 261?





SawTroll said:


> Of course .325 will perform best, with Oregon LPX or Stihl RSC - no doubt about that! :biggrin:



As usual, two posts from two people that have never tried both on that saw. :bang:

I tried both with new out of the box Stihl RSC chain. 3/8 is much faster.

Maybe you two outta try things before spouting crap!


----------



## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

finally got this damn computer up and runing when i go back out too the farm i will show you some samples of the crap on the trees


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2012)

It's a myth that anything richer than an optimal tune makes more torque. Sure, too lean hurts it. But fatter than optimal will too.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2012)

Hey ST, the 261 is anything but a heavy turd of a saw. This is one case that I strongly disagree with you. The 261 is a phenomenal saw. In stock configuration, it is the strongest 50cc saw made today. In the woods using them add intended, I can tell no difference between a 261 and a 346.


----------



## Jwalker1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hey ST, the 261 is anything but a heavy turd of a saw. This is one case that I strongly disagree with you. The 261 is a phenomenal saw. In stock configuration, it is the strongest 50cc saw made today. In the woods using them add intended, I can tell no difference between a 261 and a 346.



which one takes to the mods better brad?


----------



## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hey ST, the 261 is anything but a heavy turd of a saw. This is one case that I strongly disagree with you. The 261 is a phenomenal saw. In stock configuration, it is the strongest 50cc saw made today. In the woods using them add intended, I can tell no difference between a 261 and a 346.



lets face it brad he likes a saarb and we like a chevrolet and a hot one at that


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2012)

Jwalker1911 said:


> which one takes to the mods better brad?



They end up about the same, but it takes more to get the 261 there. That's the builders problem though. The end result is nearly the same with both saws. You can search my YouTube channel and I did extensive comparisons on the two. It's all documented in the thread linked earlier in this thread. Randy's kind of doing like I did, by doing it in steps, so that he can see what really works. When done, it'll run about like a stock 70cc saw.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2012)

deye223 said:


> lets face it brad he likes a saarb and we like a chevrolet and a hot one at that



Actually, I sold my 261 and kept the 346 But that doesn't subtract from the fact that the 261 is a phenomenal saw.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

buy the look of the users browsing this thread list every one is waiting for randys vid and soooooo am i


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## Jwalker1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> They end up about the same, but it takes more to get the 261 there. That's the builders problem though. The end result is nearly the same with both saws. You can search my YouTube channel and I did extensive comparisons on the two. It's all documented in the thread linked earlier in this thread. Randy's kind of doing like I did, by doing it in steps, so that he can see what really works. When done, it'll run about like a stock 70cc saw.



I wouldnt mind having that done with my 026 but for now im pretty happy with my muff modded 346 its great for what i use it for(doesnt have the torque of the 026 tho) but for now I think im more interested in making my 066 outrun my dirtbike lol


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## RichardGrayJr (Feb 9, 2012)

I've looked over both saws extensively and cannot come to a definitive conclusion that would make me choice one over the other. I had the pleasure of running both about a month ago. They are truly fine saws. I'm no fan of any particular brand, but the 261 handled well but the 346 seemed to have a bit more "grunt". Either way, I'll own one or the other in the coming months. There is some really good info in this thread.


----------



## Jwalker1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

RichardGrayJr said:


> I've looked over both saws extensively and cannot come to a definitive conclusion that would make me choice one over the other. I had the pleasure of running both about a month ago. They are truly fine saws. I'm no fan of any particular brand, but the 261 handled well but the 346 seemed to have a bit more "grunt". Either way, I'll own one or the other in the coming months. There is some really good info in this thread.



My 346 is running a 16"bar mainly using it for limbing and such its lightning fast and very nimble maybe im not using it to its full potential but it wont hold a candle to the 261 brad has in his videos


----------



## walexa07 (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> As usual, two posts from two people that have never tried both on that saw. :bang:
> 
> I tried both with new out of the box Stihl RSC chain. 3/8 is much faster.
> 
> Maybe you two outta try things before spouting crap!



Brad and Niko are in my top 10 favorite people on this site - but I also tried both .325 and .375 on my 261 and it felt like a pretty big difference, in favor of the .375 - this was with a 16" bar. But I've got a couple 026's and an 028 that are happier with .325. By the way, the 261 is also the smoothest saw I have that runs .375 chain.

JMHO

Waylan


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I just can't understand why anyone care about how that thurd of an heavy and badly handling 50cc saw can be modded to perform at all! :yoyo::yoyo:



Niko have you ever used one? I'm a huge fan of the 346xp, but this 261 is a very nice, well made saw. It's anything but heavy and bad handling. 



RichardGrayJr said:


> I've looked over both saws extensively and cannot come to a definitive conclusion that would make me choice one over the other. I had the pleasure of running both about a month ago. They are truly fine saws. I'm no fan of any particular brand, but the 261 handled well but the 346 seemed to have a bit more "grunt". Either way, I'll own one or the other in the coming months. There is some really good info in this thread.



The 346xp is a faster cutting saw right out of the box.......in small wood. The 261 has more torque and will pull down and grunt when the 346xp will stall. Add to that the fuel economy of the Stihl and....well. 

I'll gonna go make a video now.


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## Jwalker1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

Not tryin to be a butt kisser by any means but I think its amazing what you guys do with these saws Im still a long ways off but ive learned a lot about how these saws work from reading what Randy,Brad,Stump and tlandrum do to make these things run at peak performance....Tip o' the hat to ya gentleman


----------



## TK (Feb 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Niko have you ever used one? I'm a huge fan of the 346xp, but this 261 is a very nice, well made saw. It's anything but heavy and bad handling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When the strato version of the 346 comes out we'll have the fuel economy problem solved  Now go make some vids (plural!) We're all visual learners here. We don't understand what you've done until you post a vid :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2012)

Jwalker1911 said:


> I wouldnt mind having that done with my 026 but for now im pretty happy with my muff modded 346 its great for what i use it for(doesnt have the torque of the 026 tho) but for now I think im more interested in making my 066 outrun my dirtbike lol



IMHI, a 260 will never be a 346 or 261. Putting a bigger carb on a 260 is not a simple bolt on ordeal. Then you have to figure it how to make the choke work, which I never did. It's just too far behind with to many obstacles. Then you're still left with with old school AV and horrible filtration. Now, in not talking about race saws here. I'm talking about being able to build a fully functioning production capable saw.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> IMHI, a 260 will never be a 346 or 261. Putting a bigger carb on a 260 is not a simple bolt on ordeal. Then you have to figure it how to make the choke work, which I never did. It's just too far behind with to many obstacles. Then you're still left with with old school AV and horrible filtration. Now, in not talking about race saws here. I'm talking about being able to build a fully functioning production capable saw.



I agree completely. The 026 was one of the first saws I modded and over the next couple of years I've built a pile of them....and I've learn was tricks that will make em run. They will make a strong 50cc saw but never will they be a 346xp. 

The videos are processing. I don't have any way to edit video (I wish I did) my wife bought me this JVC video camera at a pawn shop without any of the software. JVC is not user friendly when it comes to working with just any editing program. 

I'm happy with it now. It has a butt load of torque. 

I'm sure I could get more upper rpm power from it but Darren asked for a saw with torque. 

The timing numbers are still stock. I raised the exhaust the amount I lowered the jug....never touched the intake....and just leveled up the transfers. It's at about 190psi so raising the exhaust would be my next step. I really need to move on to the next saw though.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

just watched the vid i'm a happy camper


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

deye223 said:


> just watched the vid i'm a happy camper



I've been having some connectivity issues here. 

Anyhoo....

[video=youtube;01BzHCxHGEA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01BzHCxHGEA&feature=g-upl&context=G2e3373dAUAAAAAAADAA[/video]

[video=youtube;VKkz1y8Xrw0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkz1y8Xrw0&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=2&feature=plcp[/video]

[video=youtube;gQ1rkegwCrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1rkegwCrU&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=1&feature=plcp[/video]

Same bar and chain on a new MS460 for comparison. The large dawgs got in the way but you get the idea. 

[video=youtube;fChMMrkRA2I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChMMrkRA2I[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2012)

Looks good, Randy. Much stronger.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I've been having some connectivity issues here.
> 
> Anyhoo....
> 
> ...



That 460 looks familiar!


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Looks good, Randy. Much stronger.



No faster in small wood, but much stronger in big hard stuff. Port timing is still very mild, just leveled the transfers and opened the tunnels. Oh a bit more compression too.....it should end up at 200psi. I could do another one in one step now. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> That 460 looks familiar!



It should. 

I have a new dual port cover for that saw.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It should.
> 
> I have a new dual port cover for that saw.



Well put her on it! I will pay for it. Been meaning to contact ya anyways.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Well put her on it! I will pay for it. Been meaning to contact ya anyways.



This 261 has cost me a few days but I've gained some much needed experience with this saw. I've got a cold and my help is down sick too. I can see the work piling up.......I'm shutting off this laptop and picking up a wrench.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 9, 2012)

i think that looked like an amazing amount of torque out of a 50cc saw. i want a 261 just like this one for grunt on bigger stuff and i want a 346 turned up for high rpm for limbing and small stuff. 

i think i just invented the perfect 4 saw plan-
346
MS261
441C-M TRONIC
660


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i think that looked like an amazing amount of torque out of a 50cc saw. i want a 261 just like this one for grunt on bigger stuff and i want a 346 turned up for high rpm for limbing and small stuff.
> 
> i think i just invented the perfect 4 saw plan-
> 346
> ...



Here is my current 4 saw plan:
346xp ne
MS261
MS361
MS460
All 3 Stihls are new, not a scratch on them! And, all 4 will be modded in time!


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Here is my current 4 saw plan:
> 346xp ne
> MS261
> MS361
> ...



why you lucky bastage! all 3 are new... i'm way behind in this game!!


----------



## jropo (Feb 9, 2012)

Thats a nice peppy saw now, can't beleive it hangs w/ a 460!!! :msp_ohmy:
Well done!
Going back in for more?


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

jropo said:


> Thats a nice peppy saw now, can't beleive it hangs w/ a 460!!! :msp_ohmy:
> Well done!
> Going back in for more?



I was thinking the same thing. I hope it doesnt hang with that 460 when he is done with it!!!


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 9, 2012)

jropo said:


> Going back in for more?



i think he was hinting that he needs to move onto other projects. he can try going farther on mine though!


----------



## jropo (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I hope it doesnt hang with that 460 when he is done with it!!!



You might need some PPE and some Depends, when your eating up 660's and such.:msp_scared:


----------



## jropo (Feb 9, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i think ha was hinting that he needs to move onto other projects. he can try going farther on mine though!



SEND IT!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

jropo said:


> You might need some PPE and some Depends, when your eating up 660's and such.:msp_scared:



I have one particular 660 in mind...:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jropo (Feb 9, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I have one particular 660 in mind...:hmm3grin2orange:



Well if you have a 460 cutting like a 660, might as well sell the 660 and get a 880 for MM to do!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## TK (Feb 9, 2012)

jropo said:


> Well if you have a 460 cutting like a 660, might as well sell the 660 and get a 880 for MM to do!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:



Nah, do the 660 up to take the 880 :msp_thumbup:


----------



## jropo (Feb 9, 2012)

TK said:


> Nah, do the 660 up to take the 880 :msp_thumbup:



660 bottom, w/ a MM 880 top!!!? :hmm3grin2orange:

121.6cc 8.6+hp. pulling a 4ft.er @ 12-13k indacut :jawdrop: :hmm3grin2orange:


:dunno:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 9, 2012)

jropo said:


> Well if you have a 460 cutting like a 660, might as well sell the 660 and get a 880 for MM to do!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:



It is a friend of mine's 660. He thought he was bad because his well broke in 660 was a little faster than my fresh 064. He said in this way that makes my ears bleed, "Wannnnnna Raceeeeee?" LOL!


----------



## deye223 (Feb 9, 2012)

looks very strong randy i'm happy as a pig in $hit 
times
cant 2.9

pine 5.0


oak 9.6

460 8.3

thats only 1.3 sec behind a 460 looks like i got a 460 for sale thanks you have done a great job as usual


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

deye223 said:


> looks very strong randy i'm happy as a pig in $hit
> times
> cant 2.9
> 
> ...




I was just timing the oak cuts as well. I don't know why there's just one cut with the 460......the ####ty dsl connection musta took a crap.

If you're happy I'm happy Darren. It's amazing how much power there is in that saw. Remember I still have never touched the intake and only brought the exhaust back up to stock duration after lowering the squish. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 9, 2012)

i'm not a real smart man Randy, but it sounds like there could be alot left in there? i so badly wanna see you reach the max on this saw, i just don't have the coin right now to send mine.


----------



## jropo (Feb 9, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i'm not a real smart man Randy, but it sounds like there could be alot left in there? i so badly wanna see you reach the max on this saw, i just don't have the coin right now to send mine.



I bet that it takes alot more than money to have one of these done.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i'm not a real smart man Randy, but it sounds like there could be alot left in there? i so badly wanna see you reach the max on this saw, i just don't have the coin right now to send mine.





jropo said:


> I know for sure, that it takes alot more than money to have one of these done, on a saw that you just were nice enough, for enough time for the "budget" to allow.
> And I've been around long enough, were all my tricks, aren't really tricks anymore.:msp_wub:



You reach a point where more carb is needed to support the demands of the engine. We are close to that point now.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 10, 2012)

what if we found a carb that would support the saw and adapt easily, do you feel there are any gains yet to be had? 

i ask because you had said you didn't touch the intake and barely messed with the exhaust so i thought if you were to dig in there it may be worth the carb headache?

also, didn't Brad use a bigger carb? 044 maybe?


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I was just timing the oak cuts as well. I don't know why there's just one cut with the 460......the ####ty dsl connection musta took a crap.
> 
> If you're happy I'm happy Darren. It's amazing how much power there is in that saw. Remember I still have never touched the intake and only brought the exhaust back up to stock duration after lowering the squish. :msp_thumbup:



nah mate leave it like it is it's got touqe in spades thats what i want if i want a screaming banchi with no balls down the bottom end i'll buy a husky otstir: again thanks on a job well done


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> what if we found a carb that would support the saw and adapt easily, do you feel there are any gains yet to be had?
> 
> i ask because you had said you didn't touch the intake and barely messed with the exhaust so i thought if you were to dig in there it may be worth the carb headache?
> 
> also, didn't Brad use a bigger carb? 044 maybe?



if you go too much father you will end up in the race saw category ( well not far from it ) and start losing longevity and the ability to run for long periods of time IMHO cheers


----------



## MCW (Feb 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> It's a myth that anything richer than an optimal tune makes more torque. Sure, too lean hurts it. But fatter than optimal will too.



I agree Brad. Sometimes though people set saws up way too lean in small wood where the lack of torque isn't noticable. Stick a longer bar on the saw and bury it and you'll find that it sometimes needs richening up a tad.



deye223 said:


> nah mate leave it like it is it's got touqe in spades thats what i want if i want a screaming banchi with no balls down the bottom end i'll buy a husky otstir: again thanks on a job well done



Hah hah. Common misconception from Stihl owners as peak rpm's generally the same. Hey haven't you just bought a Husky?


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

MCW said:


> Hah hah. Common misconception from Stihl owners as peak rpm's generally the same. Hey haven't you just bought a Husky?



no  i got one here but have'nt payed for it yet haha and that ain't no 50cc limbing saw you no what i was talking about grunt down low not at the top end


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 10, 2012)

Darren, Matt gave me some extra C3M carbs. I'm going to tweak one for my 365BB, but I'll have a few left over. Let me know if you want one and I'll send it to you, just PM me with your address.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

gday terry will it suit a ported 390xp


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 10, 2012)

If I recall correctly, no. The carb on the 390 has the mounting holes at an angle (WJ vs WS series I think). Perhaps after you have the 261 for a while you may want a bit more top-end out of it. I doubt you would loose low-end if the carb was metering correctly.

A bigger carb works similar to having more intake duration, but allows you to retain more base compression. Provided it was metering correctly, you would only notice a drop in low-end torque if the crankcase was allowed to fill too early at low revs and you started to get back-flow out the intake. If the engine was never lugged down to that point of back-flow, then the bigger carb would give you more power through out the entire powerband, although the actual peaks of torque and horsepower would be pushed a bit higher.

Perhaps Brad could chime in with what he did and what results he got.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

Terry Syd said:


> If I recall correctly, no. The carb on the 390 has the mounting holes at an angle (WJ vs WS series I think). Perhaps after you have the 261 for a while you may want a bit more top-end out of it. I doubt you would loose low-end if the carb was metering correctly.
> 
> A bigger carb works similar to having more intake duration, but allows you to retain more base compression. Provided it was metering correctly, you would only notice a drop in low-end torque if the crankcase was allowed to fill too early at low revs and you started to get back-flow out the intake. If the engine was never lugged down to that point of back-flow, then the bigger carb would give you more power through out the entire powerband, although the actual peaks of torque and horsepower would be pushed a bit higher.
> 
> Perhaps Brad could chime in with what he did and what results he got.



don't mind me at the moment me head is in la la land thats the one of the 044


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 10, 2012)

What's your head doing in Los Angeles? Bad juju that place, better to bring it back to Oz.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

had a migraine for 5 1/2 hours i'm just starting too get with it


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2012)

I used a Zama C3M off a 044. I had to swap the shafts. It makes a real difference. I don't recall my port timing numbers, but I believe I lowered the intake. In no way was it not still a work saw. I still know where the saw is and he loves it.


----------



## MCW (Feb 10, 2012)

Terry Syd said:


> Darren, Matt gave me some extra C3M carbs. I'm going to tweak one for my 365BB, but I'll have a few left over. Let me know if you want one and I'll send it to you, just PM me with your address.



I think you mean Chang 3 Ming carbs Terry


----------



## Jwalker1911 (Feb 10, 2012)

So far the best thing about this thread.....I see someone mentions a 460 for sale.......I went to youtube and watched a ton of build videos the difference is amazing but you guys need to buy bigger stoves you cut pretty small chunks of firewood


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

*tune*

hey randy have you got it on 40:1 or 50:1 and are you runing it at 13500 or around 14000


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 10, 2012)

deye223 said:


> hey randy have you got it on 40:1 or 50:1 and are you runing it at 13500 or around 14000



I run 93 non ethanol with Belray H1R at 40:1. It's at 13,800-14,000 

I really like the Belray as it mixed with alcohol. That way if ethanol is in the fuel it still mixes well.


----------



## Jwalker1911 (Feb 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I run 93 non ethanol with Belray H1R at 40:1. It's at 13,800-14,000
> 
> I really like the Belray as it mixed with alcohol. That way if ethanol is in the fuel it still mixes well.



At what point in porting do you benefit from a richer mix?


----------



## deye223 (Feb 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I run 93 non ethanol with Belray H1R at 40:1. It's at 13,800-14,000
> 
> I really like the Belray as it mixed with alcohol. That way if ethanol is in the fuel it still mixes well.



just tryed to find some don't think i can get it here we have plenty of ethanol free fuel here spose i'll keep useing me stihl oil even the husky likes it


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 10, 2012)

Jwalker1911 said:


> At what point in porting do you benefit from a richer mix?



It's my understanding that more oil in the mix seals better and makes for more combustion pressure. I never really worry about the splitting of hairs as I only build saws for work. I just like knowing there's plenty of oil in the mix.

Also a rich air/fuel ratio runs cooler.


----------



## Jwalker1911 (Feb 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It's my understanding that more oil in the mix seals better and makes for more combustion pressure. I never really worry about the splitting of hairs as I only build saws for work. I just like knowing there's plenty of oil in the mix.
> 
> Also a rich air/fuel ratio runs cooler.



So do you use that mix regardless of wether a saw is ported or not?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 10, 2012)

Jwalker1911 said:


> So do you use that mix regardless of wether a saw is ported or not?



Yep. That's what I run in everything including my grandson's dirt bike.


----------



## Jwalker1911 (Feb 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yep. That's what I run in everything including my grandson's dirt bike.



Good piece of information to have, thank you


----------



## deye223 (Feb 11, 2012)

deye223 said:


> finally got this damn computer up and runing when i go back out too the farm i will show you some samples of the crap on the trees



AND THIS IS THE CRAP ON THE TREES

[video=youtube;FAotjPER9N8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAotjPER9N8&context=C307dbacADOEgsToPDskKsudLI0aJD0VFi-zMd5CAQ[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2012)

Good stuff Darren. That stringy has to be rough on a chain cutter. We have nothing here that compares to that. I guess skidding logs through mud to the landing makes for a dull chain too but nothing on this mountain grows with sand inside the bark. 

The 261 is on the way my friend........I hope it suits you. :msp_wink:


----------



## deye223 (Feb 11, 2012)

yes randy i think it will. that tree was about 60' got some vids there were not very good but the best i could do today , once you get the bottom half done it's pretty clean , i'm gunna put the vids and some pics together later

and once again thank you very much


----------



## TK (Feb 11, 2012)

Was that a dog or a boar?


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Good stuff Darren. That stringy has to be rough on a chain cutter. We have nothing here that compares to that. I guess skidding logs through mud to the landing makes for a dull chain too but nothing on this mountain grows with sand inside the bark.
> 
> The 261 is on the way my friend........I hope it suits you. :msp_wink:



The way the wind blows here in Kansas we end up with a lot of sand and other enemies to a saw chain. Not to even mention nails, railroad spikes, etc. Always find them damn things with a new chain too. :bang:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> The way the wind blows here in Kansas we end up with a lot of sand and other enemies to a saw chain. Not to even mention nails, railroad spikes, etc. Always find them damn things with a new chain too. :bang:



I cut into a log chain last year......with a new .404 36" full comp.....


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I cut into a log chain last year......with a new .404 36" full comp.....



I usually start inventing new cuss words when I find stuff like that with a chain. I need to quit that since my kids are starting to venture out with me now that they are old enough...:taped:


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 11, 2012)

deye223 said:


> AND THIS IS THE CRAP ON THE TREES
> 
> [video=youtube;FAotjPER9N8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAotjPER9N8&context=C307dbacADOEgsToPDskKsudLI0aJD0VFi-zMd5CAQ[/video]



Nice mate dont ya just love Stringy,nothing is easy with Ozzy hard woods.

Know that you are getting into reall saws (ported ones) if you are not using fully synthetic oils i strongly recommend ya do,have a word to Matt about the oil he uses.:msp_wink:


----------



## David (saltas) (Feb 11, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> if you are not using fully synthetic oils i strongly recommend ya do,have a word to Matt about the oil he uses.:msp_wink:



Kraft disease.........................remind me


----------



## deye223 (Feb 11, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> Nice mate dont ya just love Stringy,nothing is easy with Ozzy hard woods.
> 
> Know that you are getting into reall saws (ported ones) if you are not using fully synthetic oils i strongly recommend ya do,have a word to Matt about the oil he uses.:msp_wink:



my bad i allways thought stihl oil was synthetic , matt gave me some JAKmax synthetic i'm on me way out the door to get some more caltex 96 RON


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 11, 2012)

I nomally use Caltex 95 untill 2 weeks ago they have changed the smell of it and even when its gorne through the saw is very un pleasant, maybe to stop the dark people sniffin it.
I have been using BP Premium 95 and all is good.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 11, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> I nomally use Caltex 95 untill 2 weeks ago they have changed the smell of it and even when its gorne through the saw is very un pleasant, maybe to stop the dark people sniffin it.
> I have been using BP Premium 95 and all is good.



i noticed that yesterday thought it was me, stings the nostrils and takes ya breth away just got back from town didn't get caltex too busy got some bp premium just up the road hows that for coincidence what oil do you use


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2012)

Oh great........you bloody Aussies are turning this most informative piece of work into an oil thread. 

I like the Belray H1R BTW.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Oh great........you bloody Aussies are turning this most informative piece of work into an oil thread.
> 
> I like the Belray H1R BTW.



okok how about we turn it into a flippy cap thread just too even things up a bit HAHA


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2012)

deye223 said:


> okok how about we turn it into a flippy cap thread just too even things up a bit HAHA



That would take it into a tailspin for sure. 

I'll see your flippy cap and raise you an bottle of Gary Goo.


----------



## tlandrum (Feb 11, 2012)

hey now i wish my xpw 's had flippy caps,and i been using gary goo at a 1000 to 1 for a while now. geesh


----------



## deye223 (Feb 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That would take it into a tailspin for sure.
> 
> I'll see your flippy cap and raise you an bottle of Gary Goo.



I'll see your gary goo and raise you semi v full chizle




PS what the he!! is gary goo or just a joke


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2012)

deye223 said:


> I'll see your gary goo and raise you semi v full chizle
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Gary is a mod that deals with disruptive oil threads and stuff.


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 11, 2012)

Mobil 1 Racing 2T fully synthetic 40:1


----------



## David (saltas) (Feb 12, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Oh great........you bloody Aussies are turning this most informative piece of work into an oil thread.
> 
> I like the Belray H1R BTW.



..............This is why we have a all Aussie dribble thread we cant seem to stay on topic for more than a few pages :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## deye223 (Feb 19, 2012)

it just hit australia


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

deye223 said:


> it just hit australia



Watching it like a hawk I see. :msp_thumbup:

I know I damn sure would be. I've only had one new saw.......a Poulan from Wal-Mart......I almost forgot about that saw. Now the misery is back.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Watching it like a hawk I see. :msp_thumbup:
> 
> I know I damn sure would be. I've only had one new saw.......a Poulan from Wal-Mart......I almost forgot about that saw. Now the misery is back.



LOL post in this place is a bit of a joke at times i can get stuff from over seas in 6 days yet too get some thing from inter state takes 10 days so i'll get me toy next week


----------



## gcdible1 (Feb 21, 2012)

*261*

Exactly what i need! The wife likes to cut with me and she runs the 290 just great. a lighter and stronger saw would be awesome. Let me know how much and ill start saving my coins!



blsnelling said:


> Did you see the thread where I modded mine? That 261 can be made to run like a 70cc saw. It does require more work than any other saw I port. I did mine progressively, so you can see what it really took to get the most out of it. Everyone that ran it was amazed that a saw that small could make that kind of power.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;HxMPgN_2Mvs]http://youtu.be/HxMPgN_2Mvs[/video]


----------



## deye223 (Feb 23, 2012)

here you go randy the 261 in something a bit harder 

well got a video what a differance the 260 could probably have rackers tacken down a bit but it was still holding 9000 RPM in the cut less dust with the 261 this is NOT a chain fight it is more about power and tourqe the 261 is 3/8 18" rackers down to about 35 thou the 260 is 3/8 rackers about 20 thou 

[video=youtube;E_0buNhGYOk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_0buNhGYOk&context=C307dbacADOEgsToPDskKsudLI0aJD0VFi-zMd5CAQ[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 23, 2012)

I picture a 260 going up for sale in the near future. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## deye223 (Feb 23, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I picture a 260 going up for sale in the near future. :hmm3grin2orange:



very perceptive young fella it allredy is


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 23, 2012)

You'd have to run the same chain for the comparison to mean anything. But we still know what the outcome would be. A 260 isn't even close to a 261. Congrats on a great new saw.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 23, 2012)

thanks


----------



## nmurph (Feb 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> You'd have to run the same chain for the comparison to mean anything. But we still know what the outcome would be. A 260 isn't even close to a 261. Congrats on a great new saw.



...and it's rakers or depth gauges, not rackers...that's the nickname of the guy down at the pool hall. Hey, do they even have those anymore?


----------



## nmurph (Feb 23, 2012)

I just received a used (very lightly, the chain hasn't even been sharpened) 261 last night. I have a few 346's hanging around and a ported 026. I hope to get them in the same tree tomorrow and see how they compare. I am picking up some chains and bars today so that the set-ups will be the same. I do know the 261 is getting close to 3/4lb heavier than a NE. I ran both last night for a few cuts in some 20" pine, and couldn't tell the 261 was stronger. It was just seat-of-the-pants cutting, with both saws making about 10 cuts, and with different chains. So, I'm not ready to make a final decision about that yet. 

The one thing I did notice about the 261 is the squared-off top corner of the front handle compared to the continuously curving one on the 346. The 261 has a pronounced corner where the loop goes from horizontal to vertical. Whereas, the front loop on the 346 is just a smooth arc. The 346's loop allows an infinite choice of left hand grips when transitioning from the top to the side of the loop. I think this is going to make the 346 feel better in the woods and I am interested in seeing if this perception holds true when both are used for limbing.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 23, 2012)

nmurph said:


> ...and it's rakers or depth gauges, not rackers...that's the nickname of the guy down at the pool hall. Hey, do they even have those anymore?



i can't spell for crap and no pool halls any more here not for about 15 years


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## nmurph (Feb 23, 2012)

deye223 said:


> i can't spell for crap and no pool halls any more here not for about 15 years



Just ribbing you about the spelling, and I doubt spell-check would pick up that error...I remember when every town had at least one pool hall, regardless of population. I spent a lot of time hanging out there during college. It was cheap entertainment.


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## blsnelling (Feb 23, 2012)

At least give that 261 a MM and let it breathe.


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## nmurph (Feb 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> At least give that 261 a MM and let it breathe.



I already have a plan for that, but I want to run it stock vs a stock 346, same chain. Then it's on to MM's. 

I have figured a way to keep the exhaust on the left side and use most of the existing deflector. I plan to open up everything under the existing deflector and braze some additional length and girth (no comments from the peanut gallery) onto it. 

I pulled the limiter last night and ground the tab off. The thread I saw on doing that made it sound much harder than it was. I used a wood screw to pull the limiter out of its socket as far out as I could, pushed the carb to the side (towards the flywheel), removed the screw , and pulled the metal limiter out. Then, I ground the limiting tab off and re-inserted it. The total time was about 5 minutes. When finished, I can stick an allen wrench through the limiter and adjust the H needle. I set it to about 13.8K.


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## luckydad (Mar 4, 2012)

*ported 261*

Got my 261 back in this week from the Mastermind.Got to run a couple tanks of gas out of it yesterday in some oak logs.I can say that thing is BOSS .Thanks Mr. Randy.Cant wait till i can get my hands on that 372xp.


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## deye223 (Mar 4, 2012)

luckydad said:


> Got my 261 back in this week from the Mastermind.Got to run a couple tanks of gas out of it yesterday in some oak logs.I can say that thing is BOSS .Thanks Mr. Randy.Cant wait till i can get my hands on that 372xp.



gday how long do you get out of a tank of gas


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## Mastermind (Mar 4, 2012)

luckydad said:


> Got my 261 back in this week from the Mastermind.Got to run a couple tanks of gas out of it yesterday in some oak logs.I can say that thing is BOSS .Thanks Mr. Randy.Cant wait till i can get my hands on that 372xp.



I'm glad you like it. I've got another one waiting in the line right now.


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## JakeLeg (Mar 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm glad you like it. I've got another one waiting in the line right now.



Can't wait Randy


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## Bowtie (Mar 4, 2012)

Damn. Kind wishing I would have sent my 261 instead of my 361. Oh well, doesnt matter, I will just send the 261 later. Please keep posting up pics of the 261 work!! :msp_thumbup:


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## luckydad (Mar 4, 2012)

deye223 said:


> gday how long do you get out of a tank of gas



Not long enough :msp_thumbdn:.But im pretty sure i can stand it :msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup:


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## Mastermind (Mar 4, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Damn. Kind wishing I would have sent my 261 instead of my 361. Oh well, doesnt matter, I will just send the 261 later. Please keep posting up pics of the 261 work!! :msp_thumbup:



But I'm looking forward to doing the 361........if that matters. :hmm3grin2orange:

The fuel mileage takes a beating huh? I figured it would. :msp_unsure:


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## Bowtie (Mar 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> But I'm looking forward to doing the 361........if that matters. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> The fuel mileage takes a beating huh? I figured it would. :msp_unsure:



Im looking forward to it as well. As far as the 261, I dont know how others think, but I dont care about "mileage" on a tank. Im not a pro logger so no big deal for me! I really dont think my 261 does real awesome on fuel anyway, and it only has a muffler mod right now.


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## luckydad (Mar 4, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Im looking forward to it as well. As far as the 261, I dont know how others think, but I dont care about "mileage" on a tank. Im not a pro logger so no big deal for me! I really dont think my 261 does real awesome on fuel anyway, and it only has a muffler mod right now.



Yep. The fuel mileage didnt bother me at all. Just wanted the greater power in the smaller package. .


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## Bowtie (Mar 4, 2012)

luckydad said:


> Yep. The fuel mileage didnt bother me at all. Just wanted the greater power in the smaller package. .



That is what I am going for too. All my saws will be ported before its over with. The Masterminded 460 killed me on stock saws. I suspected it might! :biggrinbounce2:


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## Mastermind (Mar 4, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> That is what I am going for too. All my saws will be ported before its over with. The Masterminded 460 killed me on stock saws. I suspected it might! :biggrinbounce2:



I'm just glad I could be of service. :msp_thumbup:


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## deye223 (Mar 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm glad you like it. I've got another one waiting in the line right now.



is it from rynomagnum


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## deye223 (Mar 5, 2012)

luckydad said:


> Not long enough :msp_thumbdn:.But im pretty sure i can stand it :msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup:



me too i need to hang a couple of golf balls of the rear handle LOL


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## MCW (Mar 5, 2012)

luckydad said:


> Yep. The fuel mileage didnt bother me at all. Just wanted the greater power in the smaller package. .



Like most modified saws you get less time out of a tank but I bet you'll find you'll get the same amount of wood cut (or more), just in a shorter period.


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## Mastermind (Mar 5, 2012)

deye223 said:


> is it from rynomagnum



This fellow here.....



JakeLeg said:


> Can't wait Randy



Hi Jake. :cool2:



MCW said:


> Like most modified saws you get less time out of a tank but I bet you'll find you'll get the same amount of wood cut (or more), just in a shorter period.



My MS460 is one thirsty SOB.........


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## deye223 (Mar 5, 2012)

i figured you would be siten on ya bum doing nothen so i sent him your way lol

don't you just love that spelling


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## MCW (Mar 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> My MS460 is one thirsty SOB.........



If they're anything like a 660 then I'd buy some shares in BP or Shell etc...


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## JakeLeg (Mar 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> This fellow here.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Randy I'm like a kid waiting for xmas.


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## deye223 (Mar 6, 2012)

JakeLeg said:


> Hi Randy I'm like a kid waiting for xmas.



i know that feeling lol


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## Mastermind (Mar 6, 2012)

JakeLeg said:


> Hi Randy I'm like a kid waiting for xmas.





deye223 said:


> i know that feeling lol




I wish I could clone myself. That way one Randy could do the shipping, one could run the saws for test and tune, and the other could stay at the bench grinding. 

Your saws are up next though Jake. I just finished a 660 that I cut the squish band on to lower exhaust timing. It worked really well. The saw came alive and runs nearly as good as the older flat tops.

I plan to go that route on yours as well. I should have both the 660 and the 261 done this week.


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## deye223 (Mar 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wish I could clone myself. That way one Randy could do the shipping, one could run the saws for test and tune, and the other could stay at the bench grinding.
> 
> LMAO


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## gcdible1 (Mar 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wish I could clone myself. That way one Randy could do the shipping, one could run the saws for test and tune, and the other could stay at the bench grinding.
> 
> I guess you are going to have to train the dogs to sign for and guard the incoming packages, and the grandkids to answer the phones, and put the wife at the bench porting too!


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## deye223 (Mar 6, 2012)

gcdible1 said:


> Mastermind said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I could clone myself. That way one Randy could do the shipping, one could run the saws for test and tune, and the other could stay at the bench grinding.
> ...


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## Mastermind (Mar 6, 2012)

gcdible1 said:


> Mastermind said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I could clone myself. That way one Randy could do the shipping, one could run the saws for test and tune, and the other could stay at the bench grinding.
> ...


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## JakeLeg (Mar 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wish I could clone myself. That way one Randy could do the shipping, one could run the saws for test and tune, and the other could stay at the bench grinding.
> 
> Your saws are up next though Jake. I just finished a 660 that I cut the squish band on to lower exhaust timing. It worked really well. The saw came alive and runs nearly as good as the older flat tops.
> 
> I plan to go that route on yours as well. I should have both the 660 and the 261 done this week.



Sounds good Randy,let me know how its going when ya can. I know what ya mean about needing a clone. Thanks Jake


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