# Webbing sling vs. Whoopie



## Guran (Jun 19, 2012)

I've just bought a webbing sling to anchor my pulley block when rigging:
View attachment 242332







Any upsides or downsides compared to deadeye sling or a whoopie?
Can imagine it's simple to use since you dont have ti re-tie it after every cut?


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## oscar4883 (Jun 19, 2012)

For blocking down you are not going to be able to get it tight to the cut. Dead eye slings and whoopies, etc., are cheap and designed for the work we do. In some applications that sling should work fine however.


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## Guran (Jun 20, 2012)

oscar4883 said:


> For blocking down you are not going to be able to get it tight to the cut. Dead eye slings and whoopies, etc., are cheap and designed for the work we do. In some applications that sling should work fine however.



Hi Oscar.
I found this clip and wanted to try it: Arborist Block and RIgging - Prune Like a Pro - YouTube
Just seems lik a timer saver not have to re tie a cow or a tree hitch after every cut. 

But what do you mean by "not able to get it tight to the cut"? Not close enough to the cut or is the choke not good enough to hold the weight?
Thanks in advance.


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## imagineero (Jun 20, 2012)

It's worth noting that webbing slings degrade very quickly, and lose as much as 60% of their strength over a year or two. The reason is that 100% of the load bearing fibre is on the exterior surface, so it gets loaded with grit, abraded etc. It should also be noted that webbing slings are often rated to their breaking strain, not their working load limit. Make sure which yours is rated to. If it is rated to its breaking strain, for example, 2,000 lbs, then the safe working load of that sling will be approximately 1/5 of that figure, or 400lbs. If you are using it for heavy rigging and shock loading it, then the safe working load will only be 1/10 of its breaking strain, or around 200lbs.

By contrast, rigging slings (also called crane slings) have all the load bearing fibres on the inside of a protective sheath. They degrade very little, and are rated to their safe working load ie. a 2,200lb rigging sling will actually have a breaking strain of 11,000lbs. They are also very cheap, you can pick up a 2,200lb rigging sling for about $5. 

Whoopie slings are good.


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## climberjones (Jun 20, 2012)

Why would that guy put that steel ring directly on that block pulley? I believe that is a no no!:msp_scared:


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## Guran (Jun 20, 2012)

imagineero said:


> It's worth noting that webbing slings degrade very quickly, and lose as much as 60% of their strength over a year or two. The reason is that 100% of the load bearing fibre is on the exterior surface, so it gets loaded with grit, abraded etc. It should also be noted that webbing slings are often rated to their breaking strain, not their working load limit. Make sure which yours is rated to. If it is rated to its breaking strain, for example, 2,000 lbs, then the safe working load of that sling will be approximately 1/5 of that figure, or 400lbs. If you are using it for heavy rigging and shock loading it, then the safe working load will only be 1/10 of its breaking strain, or around 200lbs.
> 
> By contrast, rigging slings (also called crane slings) have all the load bearing fibres on the inside of a protective sheath. They degrade very little, and are rated to their safe working load ie. a 2,200lb rigging sling will actually have a breaking strain of 11,000lbs. They are also very cheap, you can pick up a 2,200lb rigging sling for about $5.
> 
> Whoopie slings are good.



OK, looks like I've spend some money on wrong stuff. (again.....:bang
So webbing slings are not the preferred choice? But rigging/crane slings should be OK to use?
I have recently bought this one ( below) is that what you refer to as a rigging sling? 
View attachment 242408





Thanks.


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## treemandan (Jun 20, 2012)

climberjones said:


> Why would that guy put that steel ring directly on that block pulley? I believe that is a no no!:msp_scared:



Why? Well as MDS would would say " dude is ghey"

That set up was BS. Loose as a goose. What's with the ladder in the way? There was to much space between the block and the cut.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 20, 2012)

With eyed slings or loopies or whoopies, you can put a bunch of them on the stem where you need them, and just move your block down as you go.

Takes a little time, but it makes things go quicker/easier once you start blocking it down.

You can leave the last one on and have your groundie round them up when he lowers the pieces down.


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 20, 2012)

You don't need to rig anything just Murph that sum***** right across the sidewalk or driveway.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 20, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> You don't need to rig anything just Murph that sum***** right across the sidewalk or driveway.



How do you Murph a six hundred pounder?


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## rtsims (Jun 20, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> With eyed slings or loopies or whoopies, you can put a bunch of them on the stem where you need them, and just move your block down as you go.
> 
> Takes a little time, but it makes things go quicker/easier once you start blocking it down.
> 
> You can leave the last one on and have your groundie round them up when he lowers the pieces down.



I don't understand what your explaining here. I use my whoopie sling to attach my block to the spar, or limb. After the peice is lowered I loosen the whoopie and slide it and the block down to the next location. Maybe I missed something but I see no reason to pre set slings. That seems like more work than just settin them when you get there.


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 20, 2012)

rtsims said:


> I don't understand what your explaining here. I use my whoopie sling to attach my block to the spar, or limb. After the peice is lowered I loosen the whoopie and slide it and the block down to the next location. Maybe I missed something but I see no reason to pre set slings. That seems like more work than just settin them when you get there.



I don't know him personally but many here call him Clueless Carby so that might explain it.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 20, 2012)

rtsims said:


> I don't understand what your explaining here. I use my whoopie sling to attach my block to the spar, or limb. After the peice is lowered I loosen the whoopie and slide it and the block down to the next location. Maybe I missed something but I see no reason to pre set slings. That seems like more work than just settin them when you get there.



Are you telling me you've never had to remove your whoopie to get where you wanted it, or that you've never had to rig anything with more than one sling?


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## rtsims (Jun 20, 2012)

First off you were referring to a spar in the post I quoted. In that situation, I rarely remove my whoopie unless I have to change it out for a bigger one as I move down. Secondly, when working a crown or out on a limb I usually remove it unless I'm using that rigging point multiple times. I was mainly questioning the reason for pre setting slings.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 20, 2012)

rtsims said:


> First off you were referring to a spar in the post I quoted. In that situation, I rarely remove my whoopie unless I have to change it out for a bigger one as I move down. Secondly, when working a crown or out on a limb I usually remove it unless I'm using that rigging point multiple times. I was mainly questioning the reason for pre setting slings.



I've removed large limbs that had to be removed in chunks. I set 6 or 7 slings with shackles on all but the last one where I put the block, dropped the end chunk, left the sling on, moved the block to the next sling, swapped it out with the shackle and continued in that fashion until the limb was gone.

The whole thing looked sort of like a giant fishing pole from hell.


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## Guran (Jun 21, 2012)

*space between the block and the cut*



treemandan said:


> Why? Well as MDS would would say " dude is ghey"
> 
> That set up was BS. Loose as a goose. What's with the ladder in the way? There was to much space between the block and the cut.



Hi Treemandan. So now we all now the set up was no good. (Even though the title of the clip was "Prune like a pro." :msp_smile: )
Can you please enlighten a total newbie why it's important to have the block as close to the cut as possible? 
Is it to minimize the shock load when the weight is picked up by the rigging rope? 
So many things to learn..... Thanks in advance.


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## bootboy (Jun 21, 2012)

Guran said:


> Hi Treemandan. So now we all now the set up was no good. (Even though the title of the clip was "Prune like a pro." :msp_smile: )
> Can you please enlighten a total newbie why it's important to have the block as close to the cut as possible?
> Is it to minimize the shock load when the weight is picked up be the rigging rope?
> So many things to learn..... Thanks in advance.



I'll try to answer. The closer you have your block to the cut, the shorter the distance your work piece will fall and the less energy it will have before weighting the block, hence, reducing the distance means reducing the force on your rigging. 

This is why I splice my own whoopies. If you can learn the skill (easy with a little practice) you can get tenex by-the-foot and make your own slings for only a few bucks a piece in a few minutes. I can splice and whip a whoopie in about 15-20 minutes. I have 2 or three of different sizes each in different diameter tenex so I have the flexibility to get a nice, tight, close fit to my cuts. If blocking a spar, after making a cut, it's pretty easy to loosen a whoopie and just slide it down the trunk and retighten it every couple feet. I recently did a 80' pine spar in tight quarters and only changed slings once. From about 10" up top to almost 30" at my lowest cut. The adjustability of a whoopie makes up for the time in the end of having to swap slings for every cut.


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## Guran (Jun 21, 2012)

bootboy said:


> This is why I splice my own whoopies. If you can learn the skill (easy with a little practice) you can get and make your own slings for only a few bucks a piece in a few minutes. I can splice and whip a whoopie in about 15-20 minutes. I have 2 or three of different sizes each in different diameter tenex so I have the flexibility to get a nice, tight, close fit to my cuts.



Thanks boot. Any recommendations on diameter when making whoopies? 
Samson Tenex TEC Rope


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## bootboy (Jun 21, 2012)

5/8" is my go to but I have 2 slings in 1/2 for smaller limbs and poplar tops and a 3/4 for big spar chunks or cottonwood limbs. 
Tenex is stupid strong for the price and you can use 5/8" for 90% of your (mine anyway) work.


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## oscar4883 (Jun 21, 2012)

bootboy said:


> I'll try to answer. The closer you have your block to the cut, the shorter the distance your work piece will fall and the less energy it will have before weighting the block, hence, reducing the distance means reducing the force on your rigging.



OP this is what I meant when I mentioned not being able to keep your sling tight to the cut.


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## mic687 (Jun 21, 2012)

bootboy said:


> I'll try to answer. The closer you have your block to the cut, the shorter the distance your work piece will fall and the less energy it will have before weighting the block, hence, reducing the distance means reducing the force on your rigging.
> 
> This is why I splice my own whoopies. If you can learn the skill (easy with a little practice) you can get tenex by-the-foot and make your own slings for only a few bucks a piece in a few minutes. I can splice and whip a whoopie in about 15-20 minutes. I have 2 or three of different sizes each in different diameter tenex so I have the flexibility to get a nice, tight, close fit to my cuts. If blocking a spar, after making a cut, it's pretty easy to loosen a whoopie and just slide it down the trunk and retighten it every couple feet. I recently did a 80' pine spar in tight quarters and only changed slings once. From about 10" up top to almost 30" at my lowest cut. The adjustability of a whoopie makes up for the time in the end of having to swap slings for every cut.



1+ And also be aware of larger saw muffler placement in relationship to said sling or you will replace it after 1 use (when you melt it)


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## no tree to big (Jun 21, 2012)

Guran said:


> OK, looks like I've spend some money on wrong stuff. (again.....:bang
> So webbing slings are not the preferred choice? But rigging/crane slings should be OK to use?
> I have recently bought this one ( below) is that what you refer to as a rigging sling?
> View attachment 242408
> ...



no you do not want any kind of flat sling to anchor a pulley or block in a tree(in most cases). you want round rope, either one of the ajustable setups or a chunk of rope with one spliced eye like this Eye Slings for Blocks : One Eye Slings : Slings : Rigging : Professional Gear : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment


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## imagineero (Jun 22, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> no you do not want any kind of flat sling to anchor a pulley or block in a tree(in most cases). you want round rope, either one of the ajustable setups or a chunk of rope with one spliced eye like this Eye Slings for Blocks : One Eye Slings : Slings : Rigging : Professional Gear : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment



I've got to disagree with you there nttb. Flat webbing style slings are inappropriate for the reasons i specified in my last post, but this type of round sling is suitable for the task. They are very wear resistant, rated and load tested, come in different lengths and strengths and only cost a few dollars. Lots of tree guys use them in aus.

Regarding the distance between the pulley and the piece being lowered off when negative rigging, the distance does have an effect, but it isn't really huge. Having a little more distance can be a good thing, if you've got a bad groundie. You don't want a short hung log swinging back on you. Stretch in the rope, and how the rope is let run both affect the shock load when negative rigging more than the distance between the piece and the pulley.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr668.pdf

This is the most comprehensive thing I've ever read on rigging... It's worth a read but the math was way over my head. The recommendations weren't though. The data on loads at the block when negative rigging was surprising. The detailed analysis and worksheets on assessing the load bearing capacity of different limbs was useful.

Shaun


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## no tree to big (Jun 22, 2012)

imagineero said:


> I've got to disagree with you there nttb. Flat webbing style slings are inappropriate for the reasons i specified in my last post, but this type of round sling is suitable for the task. They are very wear resistant, rated and load tested, come in different lengths and strengths and only cost a few dollars. Lots of tree guys use them in aus.
> 
> 
> Shaun



ok if you do not want to buy 10 different lengths of straps you want a rope w/eye and just retie your knot each time or use a whoopie/loopie


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## Greener (Jun 23, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Why? Well as MDS would would say " dude is ghey"
> 
> That set up was BS. Loose as a goose. What's with the ladder in the way? There was to much space between the block and the cut.



The ladder is for "chunky butt" syndrome, when it is hard to get up the tree by other means


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## imagineero (Jun 23, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> ok if you do not want to buy 10 different lengths of straps you want a rope w/eye and just retie your knot each time or use a whoopie/loopie




Talk about a negative nancy 

I have 2 lengths of straps, a 1m and a 2m. Most of the time I use the 1m, for setting blocks in crotches. I don't rig down spars that often, but for the few times that I do, some combination of the 2 straps works. Two straps gives you 6 possible lengths. I'll admit the whoopie is better in terms of adjustability... I've also got a whoopie. I mostly use the slings for setting pulleys though. For rigging the porty I use a long piece of 3/4" double esterlon timber hitched. I don't do many trees bigger than about 6' DBH. 

Shaun


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## rtsims (Jun 23, 2012)

*Ignore my ignorance*

What do you guys find Loopies usefull for? I like Whoopie's and use them on a daily basis, but i have never thought to myself, " man wish i had a Loopie Sling". Plain and simple just dont know the situations where one would be more usefull.


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## bootboy (Jun 24, 2012)

Greater adjustability.


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 24, 2012)

rtsims said:


> What do you guys find Loopies usefull for? I like Whoopie's and use them on a daily basis, but i have never thought to myself, " man wish i had a Loopie Sling". Plain and simple just dont know the situations where one would be more usefull.



I use a whoopie for the porty and loopies for blocks and pulleys. I also have several tenax loop and I2I slings and a ton of loop web slings. When ya have a slew of this stuff, you have many options avail when rigging. This stuff is not that much money, so when I make a trip to vermeer, I always pick up a couple more. Always expanding my kit.


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## rtsims (Jun 24, 2012)

Nice. I see what you guys are talking about, just opened the wesspur catalog and had a looksee. I will be trying one out. Options options options. Gotta love it.


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## bootboy (Jun 25, 2012)

Oh, one more thing. When I splice a loopie/whoopie, I coat the eye and the first few inches of the bury in clear polyurethane sealant. This makes them much more durable and keeps them form getting fuzzy.


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## Guran (Jun 25, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Oh, one more thing. When I splice a loopie/whoopie, I coat the eye and the first few inches of the bury in clear polyurethane sealant. This makes them much more durable and keeps them form getting fuzzy.



Thanks Boot.
I would like to have a go at making my own loopie/whoopies also. Sounds like a good idea. And fun. Do you know any good instructions or video clips that you can share?
Problem for me is to get the material for the whoopies. No such stuff where I live. So I guess I have to order it from the US..... :biggrin:


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## bootboy (Jun 26, 2012)

I use tenex tec. It's a hollow braid 12 strand and is incredibly strong and relatively cheap. For the eye I use a Brummell splice, there are you tube videos if you search. For the pass through you need to have it buried for at least 20 rope diameters i.e 1/2 x 20 = 10 inches of bury.

Brummel splice vid http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDW8OwL0Oc


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## JanThorCro (Jul 1, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Oh, one more thing. When I splice a loopie/whoopie, I coat the eye and the first few inches of the bury in clear polyurethane sealant. This makes them much more durable and keeps them form getting fuzzy.



Does that Polyurethane compromise the strength?


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## bootboy (Jul 1, 2012)

Nope. It's already coated in polyurethane (samthane). I just add more. I buy mine in the form of urethane calk/sealant. Polyester is highly resistant to most organic solvents used in these types of applications.


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## JanThorCro (Jul 6, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Nope. It's already coated in polyurethane (samthane). I just add more. I buy mine in the form of urethane calk/sealant. Polyester is highly resistant to most organic solvents used in these types of applications.



Thanks Bootboy, I'll keep that in mind.


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## Guran (Jul 10, 2012)

Just did my first, very own, whoopie sling! I used Brummel splice for the eye. Turned out allright if I may say so myself. 
Gonna try it out tommorow. Keep you fingers crossed that it will work and hold the load!


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## bootboy (Jul 11, 2012)

It'll be fine if you did your splice right.


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## Customcuts (Oct 3, 2012)

climberjones said:


> Why would that guy put that steel ring directly on that block pulley? I believe that is a no no!:msp_scared:



Same reason he left his ladder on the tree while blocking those chunks... He's a "PRO" :beat_brick:


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