# this is something i was never taught...



## forestryworks (Sep 17, 2008)

maybe i need to find another teacher

[SEGMENTS: Calculation arrived at by dividing the height (in feet) of a tree by the diameter at breast height (in feet). 
Used to determine whether or not a tree can be successfully wedged over against the lean.]

yes, it's from the OSHA logging glossary, but i found it interesting


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## GASoline71 (Sep 17, 2008)

Don't for get your carpenters square, protractor, and slide rule. All good fallers carry them. 

Just keep bangin' 'em in... stack 'em if ya have to... she'll go over. 

Gary


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## 056 kid (Sep 17, 2008)

Damn, what about the LEAN(side & or head)!?!





Oh helll. i shouldn't be questioning the OSHA people!!!

LOL


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## PA Plumber (Sep 17, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Don't for get your carpenters square, protractor, and slide rule. All good fallers carry them.
> 
> Just keep bangin' 'em in... stack 'em if ya have to... she'll go over.
> 
> Gary



It can get a little scary, though.

Triple stacked, on both sides near the hinge, is the most I have ever gone.


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## Zackman1801 (Sep 17, 2008)

hehe thats when the skidder comes in handy to give it the final blow.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 17, 2008)

Much to Gary's irritation, thats GOL stuff too. You can do anything with back lean, its guidelines for side lean- whether the hinge will hold. 30 segment tree can have 14 feet of sidelean, 40 segment tree can 12 feet of side lean, etc. (perpendicular to direction of intended fall), etc. diameter is measured in feet, as is height. draw an imaginery circle around the crown and from the center of it drop your imaginery pink plumb bob down, where it hits the ground, measure over to the tree.

Of course, this is for reference, subject to interpretation. Usually can be evaluated in a second, without the array of tools. But, occasionally, like if there is some important target, a useful guideline.

And remember, hardwoods have those big heavy crowns and can have a whole lot of lean, which is to say probably not so relevant for west coasters. 

OSHA isn't around the south till somebody gets kilt.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 17, 2008)

Course when you're way up on the side of a mountain cutting out the timber, they're usually all poised to go about one way, and that'd be about downhill. Slope aspect can change this, sometimes you can work sideslope really well, just depends on where you are.


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## Humptulips (Sep 18, 2008)

Geez, It doesn't even mention the importance of a fresh chew of copenhagen when sizing up a bad one. Obviously no practical experience.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 18, 2008)

There was an interesting article in Tree Services Magazine in their latest issue. You stack wedges one on top of another using multiple bore cuts below the backcut!

Here is the article and pictures of this about half way down...
http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/article.php?id=2008


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## Burvol (Sep 18, 2008)

Heavy limbs to a side & the love bird factor are major forces as well.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 18, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Heavy limbs to a side & the love bird factor are major forces as well.



Love bird? whats this?


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## Gologit (Sep 18, 2008)

hammerlogging said:


> Love bird? whats this?



LOL...It's a PNW thing. We just don't talk about it much.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 18, 2008)

I've lived there for 6 years in different sessions, not enough? Nope, can't be a PNW transfer, wife is southern, not intersted (note- we met in NorCal)


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## joesawer (Sep 19, 2008)

Billy_Bob said:


> There was an interesting article in Tree Services Magazine in their latest issue. You stack wedges one on top of another using multiple bore cuts below the backcut!
> 
> Here is the article and pictures of this about half way down...
> http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/article.php?id=2008






LMAO.......... Instructors should stick to what they know. Not what they think.


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## slowp (Sep 19, 2008)

hammerlogging said:


> I've lived there for 6 years in different sessions, not enough? Nope, can't be a PNW transfer, wife is southern, not intersted (note- we met in NorCal)



And before you move here, you gotta persuade 3 people to leave. (If 2 of you) Too crowded here now. I have not heard the love bird thing either but maybe I don't want to. I like the chew idea. I think it is polite when this one guy always offers me a chew before he dips chew out. But I always politely decline. Got enough bad habits. I find peanut M&Ms stimulate my brain. 
Ok, back to OSHA. I see some interesting stumps along the road right of way cutting. I'm thinking the guy was swinging the trees against their lean a little bit. He's very good, so they must be ok.


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## Burvol (Sep 19, 2008)

A love bird is when two trees are nestled into eachother really close, up in the crowns. That's household knowledge in the PNW.


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## forestryworks (Sep 19, 2008)

Billy_Bob said:


> There was an interesting article in Tree Services Magazine in their latest issue. You stack wedges one on top of another using multiple bore cuts below the backcut!
> 
> Here is the article and pictures of this about half way down...
> http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/article.php?id=2008



that just seems like a waste of time

if you can get a tree down in 3 cuts, do it


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## Burvol (Sep 19, 2008)

Bore cuts! Bore Cuts! Bore Cuts! Just about as trendy here as the 361 curing cancer! Enough of the damn bore cuts! Shove your bore cuts!


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## GASoline71 (Sep 19, 2008)

Fuuny thing is... seems like more and more people use bore cuts to compensate for sloppy fallin' procedures. What they don't realize is that it is actually a very dangerous cut that should only be empoyed at certain times.

I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used a bore cut to fall trees in my 40 years on this planet.

Not a good practice to get used to doin' for every tree.

Gary


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## 056 kid (Sep 19, 2008)

How would you drop a leaning 50'' white oak with a 20 inch bar?


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## forestryworks (Sep 19, 2008)

056 kid said:


> How would you drop a leaning 50'' white oak with a 20 inch bar?



take that 20" bar off for starters...


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## 056 kid (Sep 19, 2008)

Theres no sutch thing as " O let me stop everything and go get a 25 inch to drop one tree". 
Bore cutting is a fact of life with a hardwood cutter..


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## GASoline71 (Sep 19, 2008)

056 kid said:


> Theres no sutch thing as " O let me stop everything and go get a 25 inch to drop one tree".
> Bore cutting is a fact of life with a hardwood cutter..



LMAO... then you obviously showed up to the job unprepared...



Gary


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## forestryworks (Sep 19, 2008)

056 kid said:


> Theres no sutch thing as " O let me stop everything and go get a 25 inch to drop one tree".
> Bore cutting is a fact of life with a hardwood cutter..



i cut hardwoods everyday

and on the big stuff i rarely bore cut

get the wood on the ground in as few cuts as possible, 
hell you already got cut alot with the limbin'


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## joesawer (Sep 19, 2008)

I cut high value hard woods for mills in the southeast for years and rareley needed a bore cut. It suddenly became a trend a few years ago.
As for wedgeing, what about when the weight of a bird finaly tips a big love bird? I wonder if there is a chart to calculate the weight of a bird. If there is I wonder if it calculates how far away from the trunk it has to be in order to tip the tree.


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## Bushler (Sep 19, 2008)

Cutting a 50" tree with a 20" bar is dumb.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 19, 2008)

056 kid said:


> Theres no sutch thing as " O let me stop everything and go get a 25 inch to drop one tree".
> Bore cutting is a fact of life with a hardwood cutter..



True, true. The bore cut isn't any more dangerous than any other cut. Dangerous don't mean sh!t in this game anyhow.


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## RandyMac (Sep 20, 2008)

Uh huh.
I have to go with the folks who believe that the current bore cutting fad is overblown. I have indeed used bore (plunge) cuts, not often, mostly when bucking large logs in a bind, once in awhile to remove chunks from a large undercut.
Maybe it's a small saw thing.

RandyMac


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 20, 2008)

It's that and a hardwood thing. Long bars don't bore very well for sure. I was just talking to the owner of one of the bigger logging outfits around here and he claims they bore cut everything, 20" bars too. I personally only bore heavy leaners and a few other rare situations. It is very useful in cold weather when it is hard to keep up to a leaner without a barber chair, it doesn't take much at all to do that to a Red Oak when its below 0.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 20, 2008)

Humptulips said:


> Geez, It doesn't even mention the importance of a fresh chew of copenhagen when sizing up a bad one. Obviously no practical experience.



Thinking sticks are useful too, depends on your preference.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 20, 2008)

I have no problem boring with 28-32" bars, personally. And the more trees you can bore all the way through, the faster. And, face cuts all done on one side more often. Trendy? damn.

There's lots a fellows around these mountains that would say the same about a face cut and hinge- overrated. Course, there's about half as many of those guys as there'd be if they'd tried....progress . I'm comfortable with you all not liking it, please feel free to knock it. Its good technique.


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## Gologit (Sep 20, 2008)

hammerlogging said:


> I have no problem boring with 28-32" bars, personally. And the more trees you can bore all the way through, the faster. And, face cuts all done on one side more often. Trendy? damn.
> 
> There's lots a fellows around these mountains that would say the same about a face cut and hinge- overrated. Course, there's about half as many of those guys as there'd be if they'd tried....progress . I'm comfortable with you all not liking it, please feel free to knock it. Its good technique.



LOL...I'm tired of arguing about it. It's just another in a long list of things that most of us will never agree on. Hell, use dynaminte and a D-9 to fall your trees...or fingernail clippers and pinking shears, whatever works. I think the main thing to remember is not to get locked in to one way of thinking. Too many times guys seem to think that if they just follow all the advice in the book the tree will go exactly where they want. Trees don't read.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 20, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Trees don't read.



...and they are not forgiving. Usually you only get to learn your lesson _once_.

Gary


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## hammerlogging (Sep 21, 2008)

G- I'm way down with the "overengineering inspector" attitude- just noticed your signature, I totally get that mentality, if that is I am interpreting it right. "Shut up kid and work." If bore cuts fall into that category for you, I understand. 
I'm not clear on how bore cutting can be used to compensate for sloppy cutting. Sloppy cutting seems to come from the one running the saw, regardless of techinique attempted. Whatever. Happy Sunday.


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## slowp (Sep 21, 2008)

Please try and get your trees on the ground. I won't say where, but I have been coming across a lot of hangups lately. I don't hear the guys in that area using wedges much. I don't think they are thinking about the people who have to come in AFTER the falling. They do put a little teeny piece of Danger Tree flagging on the hangups. This is my pet peeve of the month. I'll be crawling through the fell and buck and see what looks to my near sighted eyes like a leaner, (yup, I should have the glasses along) then I see the chunks from trying to get the tree unstuck, and I realize it isn't just a leaner, then I utter a bad word and start detouring around, but sometimes the hangups are so prevalant, there is nowhere to detour to. So I don't care what kind of cut you do. Be safe and TRY HARD TO GET THE TREE ON THE GROUND. Rant over. All is happiness and good thoughts now. Picture follows. This was just one of many spots. You may now stone me.


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## John Ellison (Sep 21, 2008)

That is bad slope, especially if it is a regular thing. How is it going to be logged?


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## slowp (Sep 21, 2008)

John Ellison said:


> That is bad slope, especially if it is a regular thing. How is it going to be logged?



Full suspension.


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## Gologit (Sep 21, 2008)

Tell me these weren't fallers. Tell me these were firewood cutters...or something. How long had the hangups been there? And what did they finally do about them?


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## Burvol (Sep 21, 2008)

I told you earlier I would have come up to work!!! Jokers from Montana They should at least skin those leaners as well... Hey dude, swingin' smaller timber in a tight partial doesn't always work, does it?


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## slowp (Sep 21, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Tell me these weren't fallers. Tell me these were firewood cutters...or something. How long had the hangups been there? And what did they finally do about them?



Look closely, you will see the little bit of danger tree flagging. That is what they do about them. There are some guys who can get the trees on the ground there, but I'm seeing more hangups in this unit than on any other. Most of the fallers around here are able to work the trees so they will miss a big tree or old growth leave tree. Those hangups are hanging in an old, live cedar.


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## Gologit (Sep 21, 2008)

slowp said:


> Look closely, you will see the little bit of danger tree flagging. That is what they do about them. There are some guys who can get the trees on the ground there, but I'm seeing more hangups in this unit than on any other. Most of the fallers around here are able to work the trees so they will miss a big tree or old growth leave tree. Those hangups are hanging in an old, live cedar.



Does yelling at them work? I mean, it won't make them any smarter, or even make them better fallers, but maybe they'll take a little extra care from now on. Or maybe yelling at them will make you feel better.


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## clearance (Sep 21, 2008)

RandyMac said:


> Uh huh.
> I have to go with the folks who believe that the current bore cutting fad is overblown. I have indeed used bore (plunge) cuts, not often, mostly when bucking large logs in a bind, once in awhile to remove chunks from a large undercut.
> Maybe it's a small saw thing.
> 
> RandyMac



Yes, boring in so the log doesn't slab out when bucking, a good use of boring. Used no matter what the saw size. As far as using the bore cut for every freaking tree..........


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## testlight (Sep 21, 2008)

And for the rest of us that have more time than experience... The hydraulic jack comes to the rescue


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## Metals406 (Sep 21, 2008)

> Jokers from Montana



Sheesh... Kind of a broad label there.


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## slowp (Sep 21, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Does yelling at them work? I mean, it won't make them any smarter, or even make them better fallers, but maybe they'll take a little extra care from now on. Or maybe yelling at them will make you feel better.



I try not to yell except to be heard above equipment noise or when I'm doing a faceplant. Not being a faller, I can't really tell them how to improve. Bore cutting? I think just taking a little more time to figure out where to put the tree and wedging more, would help. And I think that's what they need, is somebody to work closely with who knows what to do. These guys seem more "independent" than most fallers. They don't even carpool!


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## GASoline71 (Sep 21, 2008)

hammerlogging said:


> G- I'm way down with the "overengineering inspector" attitude- just noticed your signature, I totally get that mentality, if that is I am interpreting it right. "Shut up kid and work." If bore cuts fall into that category for you, I understand.
> I'm not clear on how bore cutting can be used to compensate for sloppy cutting. Sloppy cutting seems to come from the one running the saw, regardless of techinique attempted. Whatever. Happy Sunday.



The little tag line in my signature has more to do with saw maintenance overengineering. 

Most will do it because they are scared of a barberchair. Which usually means their face cut is too narrow or to shallow, or their backcut is not deep enough. They seem to think it is safer... when the reality of it is... it's a dangerous cut to use.

Now buckin' logs in tension on the ground... you bet. Do it all the time... 

Just don't understand the need to bore cut every single tree when fallin'.

Gary


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## testlight (Sep 21, 2008)

SOunds like they need a mentor, that and.....


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## John Ellison (Sep 21, 2008)

I am not for or against bore cuts, I am not for or against #6 shot in my 12 ga.; 16 oz. claw hammers etc. 
Here is what I am against. This summer I attended a free (I know) seminar put on by the state forestry on chainsaw safety/and safe felling practices. Lots of tornadoes in the last couple of years so this was a good thing. It also had a lot of stuff on timber management and TSI work so I enjoyed it and learned quite a bit.
The chainsaw part was put on by a guy that is sponsored by a BIG name saw co. and is hired out by different outfits to give safety and felling training.
Somewhere around seventy people were there. Mostly home/landowners and forestry employees. Just a few loggers and arborist's. I thought he was doing a great job until we went to the woods and he fell a couple of trees.
An 18" (oak) and one about 28" were two feet apart. He was going to fall the smaller one to the north but it had a fair side lean to the east. Both trees had several dead limbs. With a one minute explanation of what he was going to do he fired up the saw and lit into it. He bored the backcuts and proceded to whale the heck out of the wedges and did not look up once. He did look up before he started. His helper had just told the crowd that he always puts em' where he wants em. When he tripped the tree it fell a good 80 deg. off. toward the side lean. He had cut the upper side of the hinge off. The crowd was so in awe of the bore cuts that hardly anyone noticed.
A couple of guys asked, why did it go that way when you faced it that way. I could'nt hear his reply but understood him say that he did it intentionally. I say BS. Everybody makes mistakes. He made a mistake and didn't have the guts to admit it. If he intentionally cut off the upper side of the hinge he would/should have mentioned it before it was tripped. It would have been a good learning opportunity for everyone to see the reason not to cut the upper side off. I thought that was a big part of the reasoning behind bore/release, so you could scrutinize your hinge?
He did mention the necessity of looking up but only a couple of times and then it was briefly. 
I used to think that any training was better than nothing but when it is impressionable new saw owners I don't know what the answer is. Sometimes a little bit of knowledge could be a bad thing.

I have been to a couple of other training seminars similar to this and have good things to say about them.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 22, 2008)

Sounds like an arrogant SOB. Sounds like he needs a lick (what exactly are you allowwed to say here.. cause thats watered down) I think I know who you are talking about and I my guess is his last name starts with A. Don't know him, seen him at one show though, bugged the hell out of me.

Agreed about teaching the wrong people advanced technique. Non pro cutters just need to know the basic safety, and to recognize potentially hazardous trees and situations, and avoid these hazards and call one of us.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 22, 2008)

I look at various cuts and techniques (like a bore cut) as a tool - just one of many which is there if you need it.

Same as I have a "steering wheel puller". I almost never use my steering wheel puller, but when I need it, it is there.

Just good to have various tools and know how (and when) to use them is all. (And of course to know the dangers of using certain tools and take the appropriate safety precautions when using them).


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## Ivan H. (Oct 6, 2008)

slowp said:


> Please try and get your trees on the ground. I won't say where, but I have been coming across a lot of hangups lately. I don't hear the guys in that area using wedges much. I don't think they are thinking about the people who have to come in AFTER the falling. They do put a little teeny piece of Danger Tree flagging on the hangups. This is my pet peeve of the month. I'll be crawling through the fell and buck and see what looks to my near sighted eyes like a leaner, (yup, I should have the glasses along) then I see the chunks from trying to get the tree unstuck, and I realize it isn't just a leaner, then I utter a bad word and start detouring around, but sometimes the hangups are so prevalant, there is nowhere to detour to. So I don't care what kind of cut you do. Be safe and TRY HARD TO GET THE TREE ON THE GROUND. Rant over. All is happiness and good thoughts now. Picture follows. This was just one of many spots. You may now stone me.


Thats where the skidder comes in handy.


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## slowp (Oct 6, 2008)

The skidder would have to sprout wings to get into that area. The helicopter is too small to fly a skidder into the unit and the road has a giant sluice out.


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## Ivan H. (Oct 7, 2008)

slowp said:


> The skidder would have to sprout wings to get into that area. The helicopter is too small to fly a skidder into the unit and the road has a giant sluice out.



That most be on top of a saddle, huh ?Why don't the land owner fix the road,or are they going to fly the logs out?


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## Burvol (Oct 7, 2008)

I'd like to come up and cut a piece for you guys, I can do better than that crap. I went down and cut for Bushler, and I have to say it was a good thing for being on super steep, nasty ground. Bushler is one heck of a knowledgable logger, but also one really nice guy.


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## Bushler (Oct 7, 2008)

Burvol will cut a clean strip. Good cutter!


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## forestryworks (Oct 7, 2008)

i wanna watch burvol cut, learn logging from bushler and learn to cut from burvol and buy 'em both a beer!


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## Bushler (Oct 8, 2008)

Forestry, logging is pretty easy as long as the Fed stays out of it.

1. Whack em down.
2. Jerk em in.
3. Load the trucks.


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## slowp (Oct 8, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Forestry, logging is pretty easy as long as the Fed stays out of it.
> 
> 1. Whack em down.
> 2. Jerk em in.
> 3. Load the trucks.



What? No state permits to get? No roads to build? No market to find? Trucks are plentiful there? Sounds like logging utopia.


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## Bushler (Oct 8, 2008)

SlowP, those are just associated details. I was refering to the physical act of logging.

The good news, Oregon Dept. of Forestry is good to work with. As long as we abide by the Oregon Forest Practices Act they leave us alone. They even sponsor workshops etc. to help us....rather than inflict obstructions and roadblocks to prevent us from logging our private property.


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## Humptulips (Oct 8, 2008)

Bushler said:


> SlowP, those are just associated details. I was refering to the physical act of logging.
> 
> The good news, Oregon Dept. of Forestry is good to work with. As long as we abide by the Oregon Forest Practices Act they leave us alone. They even sponsor workshops etc. to help us....rather than inflict obstructions and roadblocks to prevent us from logging our private property.



What are the RMZ setbacks like down there? How many leave trees per acre?


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## Burvol (Oct 8, 2008)

Humptulips said:


> What are the RMZ setbacks like down there? How many leave trees per acre?



Leave trees?


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## Bushler (Oct 9, 2008)

2/acre. We can flex that though, same with the snag/windfall requirements. My policy is to clean up the ridges and fire breaks, and then leave an acre undisturbed for habitat.

Not sure what RMZ means. We have stream bank set backs and riparian set backs. 

Restocking requirements too. Basically we follow the Oregon Forest Practices Act guidlines and policys.

I have a current logging plan filed and a Notification of Operation. I also have a mangagement plan prepared by professional forestors.

I play by the rules.


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## clearance (Oct 9, 2008)

*Rmz*

RMZ-riparian management zone. Another few letters that really mean, do anything "wrong" and we will fine your azz and shut you down. 
The good old days were bad, you know, yarding down creeks and draining engine oil onto the ground, and just leaving equipment were it layed, and huge clearcuts. A little before my time, but it sure must have been fun, before all the freaks got thier way.


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## Humptulips (Oct 9, 2008)

Yea RMV=Riparian Management Zone and Leave trees =wildlife trees.

Here the RMZs are basically 200 feet, each side, on year round streams and less on seasonal. Streams are divided into classes and you can take some trees out of an RMZ depending on how many, how big and what species they are if you hire a guy at an exorbitant price to come out and cruise the RMZ. Kind of like extortion to log your timber. The leave trees used to be 3 then 5 and I think going to 7 depending on when you applied for a cutting permit. Been a while for me so I'm probably behind the times. There is also a max distance between leave trees but you can usually slide on that. Can't get by with just snags for leave trees most of the time either.

I liked the old days when we logged across creeks and had actual clearcuts. I couldn't see how it hurt a thing. Now it only turns into a clearcut after a few good storms. Really hate all those windfallen leave trees. Besides the waste they're hard to walk through when I'm deer hunting.


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## Bushler (Oct 9, 2008)

Hump, sounds similar. What is amazing is how well the trees we planted in the clear cuts have grown. Clear cuts work...and that's well documented.

If I were in charge, (and I should be) we'd go back to yarder logging BIG clear cuts, and harvesting Fed timber on a sustainable yield basis. With emphasis on productivity and efficiency.

I'd put a quick halt to the practice of decommissioning roads too. One of my first moves would be to start building roads into our wilderness areas for fire supression.

I wish they'd put me in charge.


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## Humptulips (Oct 9, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Hump, sounds similar. What is amazing is how well the trees we planted in the clear cuts have grown. Clear cuts work...and that's well documented.
> 
> If I were in charge, (and I should be) we'd go back to yarder logging BIG clear cuts, and harvesting Fed timber on a sustainable yield basis. With emphasis on productivity and efficiency.
> 
> ...



You have my vote for what it's worth!


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## RandyMac (Oct 9, 2008)

clearance said:


> RMZ-riparian management zone. Another few letters that really mean, do anything "wrong" and we will fine your azz and shut you down.
> The good old days were bad, you know, yarding down creeks and draining engine oil onto the ground, and just leaving equipment were it layed, and huge clearcuts. A little before my time, but it sure must have been fun, before all the freaks got thier way.



Yes, those were the good old days, I saw the last of them. Don't forget high stumps, 18" tops, Doug Firs culled for pitch rings, Cedars left because of some rot, piss firs cut and plowed out of the way, curlycued cables everywhere....some changes were for the good. We won't even get into road and landing construction, it would give SlowP heartburn.
With that said, there was a lot of fun to be had.


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## Ivan H. (Oct 9, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Hump, sounds similar. What is amazing is how well the trees we planted in the clear cuts have grown. Clear cuts work...and that's well documented.
> 
> If I were in charge, (and I should be) we'd go back to yarder logging BIG clear cuts, and harvesting Fed timber on a sustainable yield basis. With emphasis on productivity and efficiency.
> 
> ...



Me to


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## slowp (Oct 9, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Hump, sounds similar. What is amazing is how well the trees we planted in the clear cuts have grown. Clear cuts work...and that's well documented.
> 
> If I were in charge, (and I should be) we'd go back to yarder logging BIG clear cuts, and harvesting Fed timber on a sustainable yield basis. With emphasis on productivity and efficiency.
> 
> ...




I was ranting on about road decommissioning (in the office  )yesterday. I got so worked up, and then had a phone call that wasn't nice, and then forgot to fill up with gas, and had to return, and then etc...Just developed a bad mood.
So, I did my productive anger management. After I took care of things on a sale, drove up to a system road that is growing in, and started whacking the alder out of it. My back is sore today, but I feel much better. Yes, we need to cut more, thinnings AND clearcuts. I'd stay out of the creeks cuz they always have steep banks, devils club, and are just nasty!


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## Bushler (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm pretty sure we could set aside the special areas, and set aside the fragile areas, concentrating logging efforts on the Class I-IV sites with mature timber. First I'd like the FS to get their foresters out there and get an accurate cruise and site designation so we'd have a good workable inventory.

Conservation is noble. 'Enviromentalism' is a misused word to describe domestic terrorism and should be redefined by Webster.


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## slowp (Oct 9, 2008)

Bushler said:


> I'm pretty sure we could set aside the special areas, and set aside the fragile areas, concentrating logging efforts on the Class I-IV sites with mature timber. First I'd like the FS to get their foresters out there and get an accurate cruise and site designation so we'd have a good workable inventory.
> 
> Conservation is noble. 'Enviromentalism' is a misused word to describe domestic terrorism and should be redefined by Webster.




There aren't many foresters left. They've been replaced by wildlife, fish, hydro, geo, and assorted other ologists. There are contractors though.
Contractors cruised some of the sales here.


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## Ivan H. (Oct 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> There aren't many foresters left. They've been replaced by wildlife, fish, hydro, geo, and assorted other ologists. There are contractors though.
> Contractors cruised some of the sales here.



In California we still have foresters on all timber sales,and write all the harvest plans. flag the the units and even supervise the marking the timber.If there some out their that is'nt doing their job,and they keep making the same mistakes, they got no problem sending down the road.Like bad fallers.


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## mackinsaw (Oct 11, 2008)

Humptulips said:


> Geez, It doesn't even mention the importance of a fresh chew of copenhagen when sizing up a bad one. Obviously no practical experience.




Nah, they just left out the Copenhagen part cause it sucks....I do remember seeing something about Skoal straight though..


Up here Cope is not big, how the hell do you dip that finecut crap anyways?!? It has always blown my mind how anyone likes that beach sand for a dip, I mean the flavoures good but its soooo finecut..


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## testlight (Oct 18, 2008)

mackinsaw said:


> Nah, they just left out the Copenhagen part cause it sucks....I do remember seeing something about Skoal straight though..
> 
> 
> Up here Cope is not big, how the hell do you dip that finecut crap anyways?!? It has always blown my mind how anyone likes that beach sand for a dip, I mean the flavoures good but its soooo finecut..



Long cut still too fine for you? Poor folks like me have to use generic.....


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