# Cord of Firewood???



## czeigler (Sep 5, 2008)

Does anyone else have a problem when selling firewood of the customer saying... "I didn't think a cord was that much wood?" :jawdrop: 

Not that it's a bad thing, it's good for return business but my last several customers couldn't believe how much wood was in a cord.

One guy showed up with a 18 foot trailer with 1 foot sides and then had a nice dresser on it as well. He expected to fit his 2 cords on the trailer along with his dresser... needless to say he made a second trip. 

I told him when he showed up, I didn't think it would all fit... I have a 6.5'x10' trailer with 2' sides and if i stack it tight and level with my 2ft sides it equalls a little over a cord at 130 cu ft.

Then today another guy came to pick up a cord with a 5x10 trailer with 1 foot sides and decided he is going to have to make a second trip.

I just thought it was interesting that people keep under estimating the size of a cord. 

Wondering if anyone else had similar issues!


Be safe!


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## blackdogon57 (Sep 5, 2008)

*"I didn't think a cord was that much wood?"*

Happens often. Thats why I don't allow many customer pick ups in my yard. I will sell 1/4 cord loads to customers that show up with a pick up truck or a trailer that looks like it is built to handle the weight. I have had many people call to order a full cord and tell me they are going to come and get it with a pick up truck. When I tell them they wil be making at least 2-3 trips many tell me I am full of it.

Had a lady show up the other day to buy 1/4 cord that she planned to put in the trunk of her car. She was surprised when I showed her a 1/4 cord stacked on a skid.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 5, 2008)

I think it all goes back to the confusion between a face cord and a full cord. When people find out how much wood a full cord is, they sometimes go into shock.

One has to wonder how many dealers selling face cords have taken to the cleaners people who don't know any better. Also, dealers who advertise a legitimate cord have lost a lot of business to those who price by the face cord and don't reveal what they are actually delivering at the time the sale is made.


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## Ohiowoodguy (Sep 5, 2008)

It happens to me alot: I show up with a cord, they say "ALL of that wood is for US!?!?"

I think its from all the retarded hillbillies around here selling it by a (illegal) truckload. 

I compare it to a gallon of milk: a gallon has 128 ounces, a cord has 128 cubic feet. EVERYONE knows what a gallon looks like 'cause they've seen thousands of them (except our metric friends). Same would be true if everyone had always sold a true cord.


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## LumberjkChamp (Sep 5, 2008)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> It happens to me alot: I show up with a cord, they say "ALL of that wood is for US!?!?"
> 
> I think its from all the retarded hillbillies around here selling it by a (illegal) truckload.
> 
> Same would be true if everyone had always sold a true cord.



I think you pretty much said it all right there. Very well phrased. People have ordered full cords and have just been cheated the whole time. When they get an actual cord they are obviously going to be surprised.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 5, 2008)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> It happens to me alot: I show up with a cord, they say "ALL of that wood is for US!?!?"
> 
> I think its from all the retarded hillbillies around here selling it by a (illegal) truckload.
> 
> I compare it to a gallon of milk: a gallon has 128 ounces, a cord has 128 cubic feet. EVERYONE knows what a gallon looks like 'cause they've seen thousands of them (except our metric friends). Same would be true if everyone had always sold a true cord.


Selling wood in Ohio is illegal if sold by the truckload?

You can still buy milk by the quart and by the half gallon. What if the truckload price per cubic foot is the same or a little more than the cord price per cubic foot? That would seem fair to me. Milk sold by the half gallon generally costs more ($ per ounce) than milk sold by the gallon.


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## aandabooks (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't know about buying wood and being suprised by how much a cord is. I've never bought wood. But I can tell you that from the burning end, sometimes I will look at the stack and wonder how I went through a whole cord in the time it took to burn it.


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## Joshlaugh (Sep 5, 2008)

I agree about people not knowing how much a cord is and getting fleeced by a few sellers. My neighbor bought "1/2 cord" for a $130(which is expensive to begin with here) and I didn't have the heart to tell him how little he actually got. I just advised him to talk to me first next time.

Also selling wood by pickup truck is legal in my part of Ohio. Pretty common method of selling it.


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## Moss Man (Sep 5, 2008)

We stepped up our operation this year and we aren't getting much feedback. I assume people believe they are getting what I claim to deliver. I have measured and remeasured many times to be sure we are meeting the state guidelines for cord measurements. Maine has us measure in cubic feet.


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## abohac (Sep 6, 2008)

czeigler said:


> Does anyone else have a problem when selling firewood of the customer saying... "I didn't think a cord was that much wood?" :jawdrop:
> 
> Not that it's a bad thing, it's good for return business but my last several customers couldn't believe how much wood was in a cord.
> 
> ...


Nope I don't because we sell by the face cord. However some guy wrote that it is illegal to sell wood that way. However in Michigan that's the way it is (at least in my area). Who the heck wants a full cord of wood? Most of the people I sell to want a face cord for their fireplace.


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## abohac (Sep 6, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> I think it all goes back to the confusion between a face cord and a full cord. When people find out how much wood a full cord is, they sometimes go into shock.
> 
> One has to wonder how many dealers selling face cords have taken to the cleaners people who don't know any better. Also, dealers who advertise a legitimate cord have lost a lot of business to those who price by the face cord and don't reveal what they are actually delivering at the time the sale is made.


I haven't taken anyone to the cleaners. I sell wood by the face cord. I tell them exactly how much that is. I have had repeat customers for 20 years. Why would you sell a cord of wood when someone only wants a 1/3 of that?
Why would I want to take someone to the cleaners? I'll sell a cord or a face cord. Whatever someone wants. I'll sell it by the piece also. I'll sell it by the bundle also. I'll sell it anyway you want to buy it.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 6, 2008)

abohac said:


> I haven't taken anyone to the cleaners. I sell wood by the face cord. I tell them exactly how much that is. I have had repeat customers for 20 years. Why would you sell a cord of wood when someone only wants a 1/3 of that?
> Why would I want to take someone to the cleaners? I'll sell a cord or a face cord. Whatever someone wants. I'll sell it by the piece also. I'll sell it by the bundle also. I'll sell it anyway you want to buy it.




So just what is wrong with selling the customer "1/3 cord"? That way you are in compliance with any regs that apply and you aren't using a measure that was designed to fleece customers.

Harry K


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## STLfirewood (Sep 6, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> So just what is wrong with selling the customer "1/3 cord"? That way you are in compliance with any regs that apply and you aren't using
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## abohac (Sep 6, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> So just what is wrong with selling the customer "1/3 cord"? That way you are in compliance with any regs that apply and you aren't using a measure that was designed to fleece customers.
> 
> Harry K


I guess you could call it a 1/3 of a cord instead of a face cord. Problem is up here (Michigan) the people who would call me would say "I don't know what a 1/3 of a cord is but I do know what a face cord is so bring that".


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## woodbooga (Sep 6, 2008)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> I compare it to a gallon of milk: a gallon has 128 ounces, a cord has 128 cubic feet. EVERYONE knows what a gallon looks like 'cause they've seen thousands of them (except our metric friends). Same would be true if everyone had always sold a true cord.



Makes one wonder what would happen if millers sold lumber by the cubit and realtors sold land in rods.

I was recently at a yard sale where there was a _loosely_ piled heap of split wood with a for sale sign on it. Pile dimensions were maybe 3' tall at apex, and maybe 5' wide at the broadest point. Looked to be about a third of a cord, what fits in the bed of my ranger. 

How much?, I asked. 

$200.

Wow. How'd you arrive at that amount?

That's a good price, the guy said. There's about 2 cords there and a cord is fetching up at least $200.

How do you reckon that's 2 cords?

Because a cord is about half that amount?

 

If I'd had the time, this could've become a teachable moment, but I had neither the time nor patience to explain, stack, measure, and calculate.

The pile is visible from the road. I should drive by to see if anyone's taken this guy up on this particular bargain.


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## tomtrees58 (Sep 6, 2008)

it happens just don jet greedy tom trees


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## dbmatt (Sep 6, 2008)

I am someone who buys two cords of firewood per year. After getting ripped off by some dealers I investigated what the weights and measures department of NJ had to say. Firewood is to be sold by the cord or fraction of a cord. Not by the truckload, facecord or rick. The reasoning is that those three measurements are not a definite amount. What size truck is it? How long are the pieces in your face cord or rick? However, this does not stop the (many) unscrupulous dealers in my area. One in paticular advertises that he sells a full cord 4x4x8 128 cu ft. and then delivered to me two thirds of a cord. The reason he gets away with it is twofold; as stated earlier, people just don't know how much wood is in a full cord, and to prosecute him I would have to stack the wood, not use any of it, and call the weights and measures department and wait for an investigator to come and check my measurements. By the time I found out, I had already used some. 

So, I guess the moral of the story, from a home owner to the legitimate firewood dealers out there, is thank you for your honesty.

Dave


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## Dennis_Peacock (Sep 6, 2008)

Around here? I call about firewood at times. I ask, "How much is a full cord of firewood?". Their answer is almost 100% of the time, "I don't sell wood by the cord, I sell it by the rick....so how many rick do you want?".

I'm afraid if I asked for a "face cord" I'd get looks like a calf looking at a new gate. :crazy1:


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## coog (Sep 6, 2008)

I've always been amused by the different term"short cord","kitchen cord" "rick", "run" It is well known that a legal "full" cord is 128 cu/ft, but less well known (at least in Mn where I sold wood) is that is only applied to 8 foot lengths.I used to carry a copy of the regs in my truck, but it was easier just selling a 128 cu/ft cut and split cord


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## dbmatt (Sep 6, 2008)

Here is another one I just thought of... this is an actual conversation I had with a firewood dealer...
I called to order a cord of split seasoned firewood. The sign says it is $175. Having been burned (no pun intended) before I asked her if it was a true cord 4x4x8. She said no, a true cord would be $225, this is a face cord. I was amazed. I could buy a full cord for $225 or three face cords for $525 and according to standard measurements receive the same amount of wood. In this case I declined to buy from them and found another dealer that knew how to measure the wood. 

I guess the point is that sometimes even the dealer dosen't know the proper terminology.

Dave


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## CharlieG (Sep 6, 2008)

*Time for you to buy a chainsaw and a maul*


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## Ohiowoodguy (Sep 6, 2008)

Joshlaugh said:


> Also selling wood by pickup truck is legal in my part of Ohio. Pretty common method of selling it.



Have to disagree, state law says firewood may only be sold by cord or fraction of a cord measurements in Ohio. Truckload, rick, etc are not acceptable measurements in Ohio. Its common around here for truckload sales also, its just that our f:censored:ing lazy auditors office won't enforce the law (I've asked). If you advertise your truckload as a third or half a cord, that's legal. I sell hundreds of cords a year and about half my customers get 1/2 cord for their fireplace, and half buy multiple cords for woodstove heat.


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## mga (Sep 6, 2008)

> Selling wood in Ohio is illegal if sold by the truckload?



i think he was saying that many people were selling a pick-up truck full as a full cord of wood.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 7, 2008)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> Have to disagree, state law says firewood may only be sold by cord or fraction of a cord measurements in Ohio. Truckload, rick, etc are not acceptable measurements in Ohio. Its common around here for truckload sales also, its just that our f:censored:ing lazy auditors office won't enforce the law (I've asked). If you advertise your truckload as a third or half a cord, that's legal. I sell hundreds of cords a year and about half my customers get 1/2 cord for their fireplace, and half buy multiple cords for woodstove heat.



That is pretty much standard terms in any state that regulates wood sales. The problem is not in 'no enforcement' but that the weights and measures people only respond when a customer complains. Thus the sellers can get away with shorting customers by 'truckload, etc.' for years.

Harry K


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## Tazman1602 (Sep 7, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> So just what is wrong with selling the customer "1/3 cord"? That way you are in compliance with any regs that apply and you aren't using a measure that was designed to fleece customers.
> 
> Harry K



Abohac is correct, for Michigan anyway. We (and our customers) know the difference in a full cord and what everyone here calls a face cord.

Yeah, yeah, yeah..............."face cord", "rick", "ruck", "tick" I've heard all the arguments about there being no defining specs for these terms.

It's understood a "cord" here is 4' X 4' X 8' and you have to cut it yourself. You're bying LOGS. We also call these "Pole" Cords.

A face cord is simply 4' high and 8' long or around 32 square feet and is cut to length normally 16"-18" or whatever your customer wants. A "face cord" here is running 55$ and YOU pick it up.

Never ripped anyone off on wood, just a sideline so I can buy more logs to cut and split more wood so I can sell it around cost. Keeps me in shape and out of the bars...................truth be known I give enough wood away to single moms etc that I'll never be rich.


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## George G (Sep 7, 2008)

How many people in Ohio are selling firewood legally anyway?

Firewood Dealer
• *Must be able to do one of the following*:
o Exclude all ash tree material from the firewood production area. Dealers will have
to demonstrate ability to identify and separate firewood species.
o Remove bark and outer half inch of sapwood off of all non-coniferous firewood.
o Kiln dry all non-coniferous firewood to USDA specifications.
o Heat treat all non-coniferous firewood to USDA specifications. (Schedule
available by calling 1-866-322-4512).
o Fumigate all non-coniferous firewood to USDA specifications.
More Information
For more information regarding compliance agreements or the latest quarantined areas in Ohio
and surrounding states, contact the department toll-free at 1-888-OHIO-EAB or go to
www.ohioagriculture.gov/eab.


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## Ohiowoodguy (Sep 7, 2008)

George G said:


> How many people in Ohio are selling firewood legally anyway?



One I know of: me. I have had a compliance agreement in place with our Dept Of Ag for 2 years, don't need it yet since our county isn't quaratined yet.


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## cornraker (Sep 7, 2008)

oh man i was just wondering the same thing! i get that more often than not. i delivered to a woman last year that said " sir, but i only ordered one cord of wood not two" and i said ma'am this is one cord. she couldnt believe it she thought i had the wrong customer. shows you what people know about a cord of wood. but hey like you said it brings good return business and alot of word-of-mouth customers.


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## abohac (Sep 7, 2008)

Tazman1602 said:


> Abohac is correct, for Michigan anyway. We (and our customers) know the difference in a full cord and what everyone here calls a face cord.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, yeah..............."face cord", "rick", "ruck", "tick" I've heard all the arguments about there being no defining specs for these terms.
> 
> ...


I gotta believe I give more away than I sell also. getting kinda tired of that though.


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## woodyman (Sep 8, 2008)

Back a few years when I sold about 8 cords a year people could not believe how much wood they were getting in a full cord,24 foot long 4 foot high and 16 inchs deep.I had one guy show up with a 3/4 ton full size box pick up with 4 foot high plywood sides on it and he got a full cord in it and drove off.I also talked to a guy that thought he was getting a full cord delivered and when I looked at it I told him that it was a stove cord 1/3 of a full cord he was not too happy but there are alot of people that do not know the differance. opcorn:


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 8, 2008)

Guy down the road runs a 'party barn' and needed a 1/2 cord for his fire pit. I measured it out on my stack, loaded, delivered and we both said "that is way over a 1/2 cord" I remeasured just to check and it was just as I had planned, a bit over 1/2 cord. I don't trust my mark 1 eyeball when it comes to sellign (or buying) wood. The tape measure comes out.

Harry K


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## tomtrees58 (Sep 8, 2008)

:monkey:


woodyman said:


> Back a few years when I sold about 8 cords a year people could not believe how much wood they were getting in a full cord,24 foot long 4 foot high and 16 inchs deep.I had one guy show up with a 3/4 ton full size box pick up with 4 foot high plywood sides on it and he got a full cord in it and drove off.I also talked to a guy that thought he was getting a full cord delivered and when I looked at it I told him that it was a stove cord 1/3 of a full cord he was not too happy but there are alot of people that do not know the differance. opcorn:



:monkey: 24 foot long its 16 foot :monkey: tom trees


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## coog (Sep 8, 2008)

16? Three ricks X 8 ft = 24 feet.


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## coog (Sep 8, 2008)

*It goes on...*

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/grd/831152497.html


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## ms310 (Sep 8, 2008)

had a guy stop by last night in a full size dodge 1500 6' box, says to me load it up till we get to $100 dollars worth. I asked him " do you want some in the cab? " He settled for $60 face cord in the back.


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## woodyman (Sep 9, 2008)

If I was still selling wood this is what you would get if you bought a full cord from me.


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## Moss Man (Sep 9, 2008)

woodyman said:


> If I was still selling wood this is what you would get if you bought a full cord from me.




That pile is 24 feet long, right?


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## woodyman (Sep 9, 2008)

Yes,24 foot long 4 foot high and 16 inches wide.That is what we call a full cord of wood here,all good red oak.A few years back I sold that much for $70.00,you pick up and they were all very happy when they were done loading for the second or third time.


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## coog (Sep 9, 2008)

One of my friends up there in the East metro was just quoted $500 for a cord delivered!Man, I remember all the b*tching when I had to charge $125...stacked!


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 9, 2008)

woodyman said:


> If I was still selling wood this is what you would get if you bought a full cord from me.


Woodyman would be going broke if he sold you that "cord". Let's asume that stack is 1.5' wide and 6' high. Your first cord of wood shows up after 17'. The stack is at least 35' long, so Woodyman would be giving you the next cord or so on the house.


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## coog (Sep 9, 2008)

That cord is no more than 4' high; check the Tee post.I'm sure it's only 16" in depth and 24' long.None of this will save him from going broke, but it is an honest full-cord.


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## spike60 (Sep 9, 2008)

What I'm finding interesting are some of the different terms used in various parts of the country. The term "face cord" is very common around here, but not clearly defined. The length and height are understood to be 8' and 4', but the depth is up in the air. 16", 18", 20", 24"? What size wood is in a face cord is the part that's unclear. Terms such as "rick" or "rank" are completely unknown in this area. 

The only real constant is a cord or fractions there of. And only a cord can be defined in cubic feet. That's why any regulations must be written around a cord.


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## George G (Sep 9, 2008)

In New York, all firewood sales and advertising must include the three dimensions of the wood, that is length, width, and height, with the wood ranked and well stowed.


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## avalancher (Sep 9, 2008)

Another term that really irks me is the term "seasoned"
All of the beer money clowns all advertise their wood as "seasoned" yet for the majority they are just cutting, splitting, and selling.
last winter a woman thought I was trying to rip her off. I delivered two ricks of red oak, and she hefted some of the pieces and declared them as "not oak"
When I asked her why she thought that, she said that every year she buys oak, and they are HEAVY.
I showed her the grain of the wood, then explained that when wood is wet, it is heavy because of the water content. I then retrieved my moisture meter from the cab, tested her wood, and then even showed her how it compares to some 2X4 she had in her carport. 
She called me that evening, wanted me to deliver to her mothers house,and told me, "this wood is great! And it doesnt make all that smelly smoke"
Seasoned? To me seasoned wood means a content of no more than 18 percent. Seasoned to some others means it will burn, barely.


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## thombat4 (Sep 9, 2008)

The very first time bought firewood I didn't do my homework and paid $175 for what should have been a full cord. Guy shows up with a full size truck with 8ft bed loaded with wood and dumps it in the yard. After reading and doing extensive research I discovered he owed me a whole truckload more! I call him up with the hope that he'd do the right thing but he swore up and down that his truck with no extra walls other than the bed walls held a full cord of wood. I try to explain that with the size truck he has that a full cord would equal two loads but he got real angry with me about it and never did make it right.:monkey: When I found a dealer that actually knew what a cord was I was amazed to see such a large amount of wood!! They delivered it in a dumptruck with 5ft sides and when I think about how much the first guy shorted me it really got my goat!! Bad thing is, the folks with the dumptruck came from about 80 miles away and the cost was $180, and the ripoff guy was a local. Now I try to gather as much free wood as I can on my own. It's a lot more work but it's also more fun too!


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 9, 2008)

Thombat, you might look at it simply from a weight perpective as well. Good dry firewood would average at least 32 lb per cu. ft. with the air included in a well-packed load. So, if 128 cu. ft. were delivered, the payload would be about 4,000 lb or two tons. I wager that Woodyman's stack (shown above) weighs even more than that. Premium wood or if some is a little green would add another 1,000 lb.

How many pickup trucks are on the road today that can haul two tons or more in one trip, irrespective of bed size?


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## thombat4 (Sep 9, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> Thombat, you might look at it simply from a weight perpective as well. Good dry firewood would average at least 32 lb per cu. ft. with the air included in a well-packed load. So, if 128 cu. ft. were delivered, the payload would be about 4,000 lb or two tons. I wager that Woodyman's stack (shown above) weighs even more than that. Premium wood or if some is a little green would add another 1,000 lb.
> 
> How many pickup trucks are on the road today that can haul two tons or more in one trip, irrespective of bed size?



Thanks Doc,

Very good points to consider...I betcha i don't get taken a 2nd time!!


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## Peacock (Sep 9, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> Thombat, you might look at it simply from a weight perpective as well. Good dry firewood would average at least 32 lb per cu. ft. with the air included in a well-packed load. So, if 128 cu. ft. were delivered, the payload would be about 4,000 lb or two tons. I wager that Woodyman's stack (shown above) weighs even more than that. Premium wood or if some is a little green would add another 1,000 lb.
> 
> How many pickup trucks are on the road today that can haul two tons or more in one trip, irrespective of bed size?



Here's a cord of half dry black locust and white ash in my old beater wood truck.


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## thombat4 (Sep 9, 2008)

Peacock if I'd gotten that much from the 1st guy I don't think I'd have anything to gripe about !


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## coog (Sep 9, 2008)

A real pickup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSKWCJQUCfE


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 9, 2008)

Well, Peacock, that might be a cord if you add a back board to the rack and then pack the 8' bed to the rim.

Hope you're runnin' 265 tires at 50 psi with that rig.


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## Moss Man (Sep 9, 2008)

Peacock, your load looks like what I would call a very fair half cord load. I have seen a web site describe a full size truck half cord load as rounded to the top of the cab....you got it covered.


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## Peacock (Sep 9, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> Well, Peacock, that might be a cord if you add a back board to the rack and then pack the 8' bed to the rim.
> 
> Hope you're runnin' 265 tires at 50 psi with that rig.



They are load range E tires. LT245/75R16. I run 80psi rear and 55 front.



Moss Man said:


> Peacock, your load looks like what I would call a very fair half cord load. I have seen a web site describe a full size truck half cord load as rounded to the top of the cab....you got it covered.



Height to the top of cab is 42". Bed is 5.5ft wide by 8ft long. I've taken a verified cord and put it in that bed many, many times. It's a legit 128cu.ft. cord.

3.5x5.5x8=154cu.ft. minus the wheel wells and taper at rear.


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## Wet1 (Sep 10, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> How many pickup trucks are on the road today that can haul two tons or more in one trip, irrespective of bed size?



I do it all the time in my Dodge 2500. With a set of Timbrens and E rated tires it's not a problem.


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## Wet1 (Sep 10, 2008)

Moss Man said:


> Peacock, your load looks like what I would call a very fair half cord load. I have seen a web site describe a full size truck half cord load as rounded to the top of the cab....you got it covered.



LOL, then I'd love to buy one of your cords if you think that's only 1/2 a cord!


A load like the one pictured neatly stacked and all voids filled is at least 95% of a cord, if not a full cord.


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## Ohiowoodguy (Sep 10, 2008)

:agree2: :agree2: :agree2: :agree2: 

In Ohio "seasoned" is < 20%mc. State Law.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 11, 2008)

Peacock said:


> <snip>
> 
> Height to the top of cab is 42". Bed is 5.5ft wide by 8ft long. I've taken a verified cord and put it in that bed many, many times. It's a legit 128cu.ft. cord.
> 
> 3.5x5.5x8=154cu.ft. minus the wheel wells and taper at rear.



I was dubious also as I haul the same way with a bit higher racks. Ran the numbers before you posted that and confirmed that indeed it is a full cord.

Harry K


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 11, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> I was dubious also as I haul the same way with a bit higher racks. Ran the numbers before you posted that and confirmed that indeed it is a full cord.
> 
> Harry K


Harry, I wonder which is better: Two deliveries in a 1/2 ton truck with a 6' box getting 20 mpg or one delivery in Peacock's overloaded 1-ton hayburner with an 8' box getting 10 mpg? :biggrinbounce2:


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## Peacock (Sep 11, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> Harry, I wonder which is better: Two deliveries in a 1/2 ton truck with a 6' box getting 20 mpg or one delivery in Peacock's overloaded 1-ton hayburner with an 8' box getting 10 mpg? :biggrinbounce2:




A 1/2 ton would struggle to get 20mpg empty. Let alone with a ton or more in it.

I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't get over 10mpg driving in town with a ton in the bed.

PS-I get about 8mpg.


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## aandabooks (Sep 11, 2008)

Peacock said:


> A 1/2 ton would struggle to get 20mpg empty. Let alone with a ton or more in it.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't get over 10mpg driving in town with a ton in the bed.
> 
> PS-I get about 8mpg.



I get 22 mpg in my 1/2 ton 4x4 extended cab pick-up. Of course, it runs on 4 cylinders when cruising. It has a 5.3 liter motor. Weighed down with wood and pulling a loaded 5x10 trailer loaded, more like 16 mpg.


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## Peacock (Sep 11, 2008)

aandabooks said:


> I get 22 mpg in my 1/2 ton 4x4 extended cab pick-up. Of course, it runs on 4 cylinders when cruising. It has a 5.3 liter motor. Weighed down with wood and pulling a loaded 5x10 trailer loaded, more like 16 mpg.



Hmm...the wife's 4x4 5.3L Avalanche has never gotten over 19mpg. It's got the same engine as your's.

Must be the extra weight of the Avy. It's about 6k unloaded.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 11, 2008)

Peacock said:


> A 1/2 ton would struggle to get 20mpg empty. Let alone with a ton or more in it.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't get over 10mpg driving in town with a ton in the bed.
> 
> PS-I get about 8mpg.


Well then, it looks like the "solution" is a 1-ton diesel that doesn't care how much wood is on board. Friend of mine pulls his F-250 Super Duty with a diesel. He's claiming 18 mpg empty or full.

Amazing what we will do to avoid pulling a trailer.


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## Peacock (Sep 11, 2008)

Wood Doctor said:


> Well then, it looks like the "solution" is a 1-ton diesel that doesn't care how much wood is on board. Friend of mine pulls his F-250 Super Duty with a diesel. He's claiming 18 mpg empty or full.
> 
> Amazing what we will do to avoid pulling a trailer.



If funds allowed I'd that in a heartbeat. It's funny what happens to your bank account when you're building a house. 

I'd rather have a Duramax or a Cummins, but a PSD will do also.


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## TJ-Bill (Sep 11, 2008)

what kind of luck have you guys had with log length cords? mean you buy it by the length and they say " oh it's about 5 cord" then you cut, split and stack to find out it's over or under.


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## Moss Man (Sep 11, 2008)

Wet1 said:


> LOL, then I'd love to buy one of your cords if you think that's only 1/2 a cord!
> 
> 
> A load like the one pictured neatly stacked and all voids filled is at least 95% of a cord, if not a full cord.



How embarressing is that? I quickly read the post and thought it said it was a *half* cord load! I have to seriously rethink this now!opcorn:


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## Moss Man (Sep 11, 2008)

We haul 1-1.5 cords with the 87 GMC Dually 4x4 and it typically gets 10.5 miles per gallon loaded or unloaded. Good ole american 350 v-8 backed by a 
4-speed gear-box.


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## retired redneck (Sep 11, 2008)

Peacock said:


> They are load range E tires. LT245/75R16. I run 80psi rear and 55 front.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I use 0ld 87 dodge ram 250 same tires and air 318 v8 with auto trans,411 gears 10 mpg. haul loads of wood like that all the time,have hauled 2 ton of coal at 60 mph like it was empty, they dont make trucks like that any more.


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## aandabooks (Sep 11, 2008)

Peacock said:


> Hmm...the wife's 4x4 5.3L Avalanche has never gotten over 19mpg. It's got the same engine as your's.
> 
> Must be the extra weight of the Avy. It's about 6k unloaded.



I can't get 22 all the time but when I've put it on the interstate and set the cruise at 74, here in Illinois where the land is flat, 22 is the norm. For all types of daily driving, I'm at 19-20 mpg.


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## pinemartin (Sep 11, 2008)

89 Chevy 2500 350/turbo350 12 mpg 10 ply tires with today's load of tightly packed elm close to a full cord. some trucks are designed to haul a heavy payload this one is one of them, I have hauled a 5200# weighed load of gravel, truck did not like it but it survived. Also threw in pictures of my growing wood pile each row is 7ft high by 18ft long x 5 rows deep


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 12, 2008)

Peacock said:


> A 1/2 ton would struggle to get 20mpg empty. Let alone with a ton or more in it.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't get over 10mpg driving in town with a ton in the bed.
> 
> PS-I get about 8mpg.



My F150 does about 14mpg empty ...or did the last time I checked a couple years ago. I don't *even* want to know what it gets loaded!

Due to that I am still dithering over chasing some locust I was offered. The haul coming home would be about 25 miles and all uphill, some of the rises are kinda stiff and looonnngg.

Harry K


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## aandabooks (Sep 12, 2008)

Seeing as how you've been cutting willow forever now, the locust will be more than worth it. Probably 3 times the BTUs as your going to get out of that willow.

Locust ranks only marginally behind oak in my experience.


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## thombat4 (Sep 12, 2008)

pinemartin said:


> 89 Chevy 2500 350/turbo350 12 mpg 10 ply tires with today's load of tightly packed elm close to a full cord. some trucks are designed to haul a heavy payload this one is one of them, I have hauled a 5200# weighed load of gravel, truck did not like it but it survived. Also threw in pictures of my growing wood pile each row is 7ft high by 18ft long x 5 rows deep



:jawdrop: That bad boy's loaded:jawdrop:! Nice stack of wood too!


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## abohac (Sep 13, 2008)

woodyman said:


> If I was still selling wood this is what you would get if you bought a full cord from me.



You make my point exactly. Who the heck wants that much wood that buys it? The people that buy wood from me have a couple of fires in their fireplace. The ones that burn wood cut their own.


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## Scootermsp (Sep 13, 2008)

*Box Elder*

My Arborist/tree cutter friend dropped off a load of Box Elder yesterday. He told me it'sa type of Maple. How is this wood to cut, season, split, and BTUs ? Thanks


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 14, 2008)

Scootermsp said:


> My Arborist/tree cutter friend dropped off a load of Box Elder yesterday. He told me it'sa type of Maple. How is this wood to cut, season, split, and BTUs ? Thanks




I have no idea of how good it is but who cares. It is free and was delivered free - burn it.:hmm3grin2orange: 

Harry K


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 14, 2008)

Scootermsp said:


> My Arborist/tree cutter friend dropped off a load of Box Elder yesterday. He told me it'sa type of Maple. How is this wood to cut, season, split, and BTUs ? Thanks


I believe that Box Elder is near the bottom of the heap in heat content and density, about the same as Harry's dried willow, except for one thing. It smells raunchy to boot and that may be what attracts the box elder bugs. So, I added it to my "last resort" list.


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## coog (Sep 14, 2008)

Scootermsp said:


> My Arborist/tree cutter friend dropped off a load of Box Elder yesterday. He told me it'sa type of Maple. How is this wood to cut, season, split, and BTUs ? Thanks



True, it is a variety of Acer: Acer nogoodnik.


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## Moss Man (Sep 14, 2008)

Nevah heard of "Box Elder" here, unless it is what we think of as elder bushes? Elder berries grow on them? We had some Bass wood delivered in one of the last loads we bought, I had never ran into that either and I didn't like passing it on to customers as it is feather light and probably light on the btu's too.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 15, 2008)

Moss Man said:


> Nevah heard of "Box Elder" here, unless it is what we think of as elder bushes? Elder berries grow on them? We had some Bass wood delivered in one of the last loads we bought, I had never ran into that either and I didn't like passing it on to customers as it is feather light and probably light on the btu's too.



Yes, it would be 'light on the btus too". All wood regardless of species has approximately the same btus pound for pound. 

Harry K


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 15, 2008)

Moss Man said:


> Nevah heard of "Box Elder" here, unless it is what we think of as elder bushes? Elder berries grow on them? We had some Bass wood delivered in one of the last loads we bought, I had never ran into that either and I didn't like passing it on to customers as it is feather light and probably light on the btu's too.


Box elder trees are not the same as elderberry bushes. The box elder tree can become huge, reaching a height of 80 feet and rather fast growing. The wood is less dense and is usually weaker than most maple tree species. The leaf looks like anything but a typical maple leaf:






A cord of box elder would scarcely contain half the heat content of a cord of oak.


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## Moss Man (Sep 15, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> Yes, it would be 'light on the btus too". All wood regardless of species has approximately the same btus pound for pound.
> 
> Harry K



Not sure if you are being condescending or just trying to relay practical information my way. Either way, thanx.


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## Scootermsp (Sep 15, 2008)

*If it's free, It's for me*



turnkey4099 said:


> I have no idea of how good it is but who cares. It is free and was delivered free - burn it.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Harry K



Free wood is good wood. Heck, they are all limbed and about 12" in diameter in a nice pile with my other free wood. I'm telling you guys you gotta find some tree guys who don't do firewood, they are so happy to have a local place to empty their trucks out. I think I will be getting some restaurant gift certificates for them soon, just to thank them a little more than a, "Thank You" can.


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## KsWoodsMan (Sep 15, 2008)

czeigler said:


> Does anyone else have a problem when selling firewood of the customer saying... "I didn't think a cord was that much wood?" :jawdrop:
> 
> Not that it's a bad thing, it's good for return business but my last several customers couldn't believe how much wood was in a cord.
> 
> ...



Who knew a 1/2 cord would fit in a fully dressed minivan. 

OKay !?! good thing it was dry wood or he'd have broke something

Boxelder is refferred to locally as Ash leaf maple. I have heard it called 3 leaf Ash. If Ash is 19.9 - 20 MBTU's Boxelder is 17.9 - 18.3 MBTU depending on the source. It usually has noticeable red streaks in the wood from the boxelder beetle. (sniff) I wish I could find another stand of it. Furniture made from it is quite an eye catcher. Looks good in the firewood pile though.(/sniff) The first time I cut into any I thought I had knicked myself with the cutters somehow. There was that much bright red wet sawdust on my leg. I was leary enough about it with the 3 leaves. This didnt help.


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## woodbooga (Sep 15, 2008)

Out in the country, we rarely see boxelder, which thrives in urban waste settings, vacant lots, etc. When I lived in town, I used to see it a lot growing alongside tree of heaven, norway maple, and other urban weed trees.

I've never processed or burnt any and would be curious. Seems to grow real fast and I suspect it would burn accordingly.


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## coog (Sep 15, 2008)

woodbooga said:


> Out in the country, we rarely see boxelder, which thrives in urban waste settings, vacant lots, etc. When I lived in town, I used to see it a lot growing alongside tree of heaven, norway maple, and other urban weed trees.
> 
> I've never processed or burnt any and would be curious. Seems to grow real fast and I suspect it would burn accordingly.



Old barns seem to be a magnet for the stuff.Many barns foundations have been ruined by boxelder.I treat the stuff with Pathfinder 2, and it kills all of the boxelders nearby, as they share a common root system.


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## woodbooga (Sep 15, 2008)

coog said:


> Old barns seem to be a magnet for the stuff.Many barns foundations have been ruined by boxelder.I treat the stuff with Pathfinder 2, and it kills all of the boxelders nearby, as they share a common root system.



Not surprised. My barn is boxelder free, but the stuff seems to be very opportunistic and will quickly establish itself where other species fear to root. I've seen these go from seedling to (a very spindly) an 8' sapling in 2 or 3 years.


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## Scootermsp (Sep 18, 2008)

*Cut the BOX today*

I cut up and split the Box Elder this morning. It was EASY to saw, only a little difficult to split. I'm just leaving it in a pile since I'll fire up the OWB on Friday. It'll get burned soon enough for my Domestic HW and I've learned not to spend time stacking anything that will be gone in 2 weeks. I spoke with a guy last night who has used a central boiler OWB for 10 years. He had some great advice. He said mixing green wood with seasoned produced the best results for balancing BTUs vs. Burn time. Also said not to really load it up because ash bed will creep upward and result in water puddle under your ashes...Corrosion! He opens his door for a bit every 2 weeks or so to let the creosote burn out of the stack. He said there are flames coming out the top of it when he does this.


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