# Now time for First sharpening



## AaronB (Dec 5, 2009)

I have the Granberg File-n-joint but have some questions about filing in general. Per the Oregon box I am to use a 7/32 file, which I did.

My question is how to you know how high the file is to be above the cutter. I have read 1/5 or 1/10th of the file above the tooth, but when I set the file to what I think that is, based on pictures I have seen, the file makes a 'dip' in the gullet. 

I didn't think having that dip was correct, so I raised the file up so the gullet would have the flat bottom that it does now, or at least real close to flat. So any suggestions or pictures/illustrations that you guys have the would help me on how the file sits in the tooth. I did see some pictures but for the file to sit the way they showed it it would have to be a smaller file.

Anyway, here is some pictures of the setup and of some teeth I did. Let me know if you see any major issues. The last four I think are the way it should look after sharpened, but I have never done it, so I am not sure.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 5, 2009)

AaronB, you are right there with the proper questions. I was just going to start a thread on how to figure out how high to set the file too. I've read 20% of the file should clear the top of the tooth. But many other dims too. I'd suggest this...before some of the filing masters show up and comment...they might want to know what chain it is. Then they will know if the file is correct (or you can read it from the back of the box). It looks like the way I've done mine though, I use the same filing guide. I used 20% but not that file size. Mine has more of a hook on the tooth.
Hmm...just noticed from your top photo....I set my guide so I have the maximum amount of file available for use. The screw down near the handle that you drive the file with...is also a clamp. Undo the clamp (above the knob to clamp the file) and move the whole handle back so only the end of your file is held....at the blunt end. That way you'll get another inch of file travel, and clamp on the non filing part of the file.


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## SilverBox (Dec 5, 2009)

I like a little more hook then that, but I'm no expert.


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## oldsaw (Dec 5, 2009)

I think you are looking pretty good. What will happen is that you will refine the process a bit while you mill, but you are at least 90% "there". It's part of the learning curve. You have a well defined gullet, the side is getting sharpened, so your bases are covered. You now just have to try it and see how it works. If it's not cutting well, you need to drop the file down a tiny bit the next time. If it cuts like crazy but wears quickly, raise it up a tiny bit next time. It looks like you will be fine from here, but as I said, continual refinement.


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## BobL (Dec 5, 2009)

AaronB said:


> My question is how to you know how high the file is to be above the cutter. I have read 1/5 or 1/10th of the file above the tooth,


There are no set values, it's what works for you. You have to try it and if it works for you that's it. Somewhere between a 1/5 and 1/10 seems to be a staring point although my 3/16 basic Oregon file guide is operating at around 1/4 ?



> but when I set the file to what I think that is, based on pictures I have seen, the file makes a 'dip' in the gullet.


Don't worry about that, just smooth gullet out so its nice and clean. It's best to go by how the saw feels while it's milling

The size of the file and how high it is above the cutter is what creates the hook.
Some hook is helpful so, together with a reasonable raker depth, the saw can self feed.
Too much hook and/or too high a raker and the chain will grab and the cutter loses its edge quickly
Too little hook and/or too low a raker and the chain will make too much powder. It will also go blunt because it's skating along on the top of the cutter instead of biting the wood.

There's usually a trade off between an aggressive cutting chain that can bog down and goes blunt compared to a less aggressive one that does not cut as fast but also does not go as blunt as quickly.

The picture below shows how hook varies with height and file size






Raising the file above the cutter (red circle) or using a slightly smaller file (blue circle) creates less hook. These are or course exaggerated because they are show with comparative white circles which have no height and ridiculous hook.

By sheer acccident I've ended up using a 13/64" file in a 5/32" file guide which ends up at a height above the cutter of 1/7. This seems to have enough hook to feed the saw at a reasonable rate but not blunt the cutters too quickly 




> Anyway, here is some pictures of the setup and of some teeth I did. Let me know if you see any major issues. The last four I think are the way it should look after sharpened, but I have never done it, so I am not sure.



They look OK to me.


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## oldsaw (Dec 5, 2009)

Okay, Aaron, the resident CSM expert has spoken. Bob is "da man" when it comes to this, and the current CSM "king" of the site since aggie has been absent lately. Bob still takes the cake for being the technical guy.

Nice post, Bob!!!!


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## AaronB (Dec 5, 2009)

Another question.

does it matter which side you file from? I know you are supposed to sharpen on the push stroke only....but.....

with this sharpener I am pushing from outside in (back of tooth) when doing the teeth nearest me, but since all I have to do is change the angle on the guide I am now pushing the teeth on the other side from the inside out.

Doesn't feel like it would matter since the guide lets me do it, but thought I would ask.


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## BobL (Dec 5, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> Okay, Aaron, the resident CSM expert has spoken. Bob is "da man" when it comes to this, and the current CSM "king" of the site since aggie has been absent lately. Bob still takes the cake for being the technical guy.
> 
> Nice post, Bob!!!!



Thanks oldsaw - but you'll note I've said essentially the same as what you said with few numbers alongside 



> does it matter which side you file from? I know you are supposed to sharpen on the push stroke only....but.....





> does it matter which side you file from? I know you are supposed to sharpen on the push stroke only....but.....


I think it does but only because I think it's easier to file from the inside to the outside, especially once the file is slightly used. 
Filing from the outside in means the file has to actually file the chrome plating, this is harder on the file to begin with and then the hard chrome plating breaks off and rides away in between the file and cutter. Once the file is worn a bit filing becomes a little harder.
FIling from the inside out means the softer cutter metal is filed (easily) and then the thin chrome plating just breaks off. It probably does not give as fine an edge but any really fine edge is lost in the first 6 inches of a cut anyway. Filing should also be a touch quicker from the inside out.


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## oldsaw (Dec 5, 2009)

BobL said:


> Thanks oldsaw - but you'll note I've said essentially the same as what you said with few numbers alongside



Hence the "tech" note. I just realized that we have had a couple of the more heavy duty CSM guys go AWOL lately. Kind of a bummer. That's why the search function is so valuable.


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## chuckwood (Dec 5, 2009)

*a more general question about sharpening...*



Andrew96 said:


> AaronB, you are right there with the proper questions. I was just going to start a thread on how to figure out how high to set the file too.



Thanks guys for starting this thread, it's just what I need. I'm a beginner miller, and I'm thrilled to see my first stack of wood drying in the shed. I've started with the easy stuff, yellow pine, strong but still easy to mill compared to the oak I'm getting ready to mill. I've always sharpened my firewood cutting chains either freehand with a file or with the granberg 12v die-grinder type sharpener you hold freehand. I also have the cheap, junky $30 Harbor Freight grinder that does a tolerable job. This Granberg file holder attachment y'all are talking about seems to be much more precise than what I'm using at the moment. I'm assuming that a precision sharpened chain will make me a more efficient miller and I should purchase this gizmo? I've been buying so much milling stuff that I'm reluctant to throw in an expensive electric bench top grinder on top of everything else I'm buying. Will one of these Granberg sharpeners y'all are talking about give me the best bang for the buck?


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## mtngun (Dec 5, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> I also have the cheap, junky $30 Harbor Freight grinder that does a tolerable job. This Granberg file holder attachment y'all are talking about seems to be much more precise than what I'm using at the moment....and I should purchase this gizmo?


You can finesse the HF grinder to give decent results, if you set it up so that it barely grazes the cutter. 

I've had better luck with grinders than with filing, but to each his own.


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## rarefish383 (Dec 5, 2009)

I've always filed free hand, but my eyes are getting so bad I can't get in a position where I can see the tooth well. Maybe reading glasses would help? I was out in my shop a couple days ago and found one of the Granberg file holders. A friend gave me 2 old Homelites last year, maybe it was in a box of stuff that came with the saws. I'm gonna give it a try soon. The saws came from my friends uncles shop. Now I've got to check, if he had the Granberg holder, he may have had a Granberg mill laying around, Joe.


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## AaronB (Dec 5, 2009)

BobL said:


> I think it does. I think it's better to file from the inside to the outside.
> Filing from the outside in means the file has to actually file the chrome plating, this is harder on the file to begin with and then the hard chrome plating breaks off and rides away in between the file and cutter.
> FIling from the inside out means the softer cutter metal is filed (easily) and then the thin chrome plating just breaks off. It probably does not give as fine an edge but any really fine edge is lost in the first 6 inches of a cut anyway. Filing should also be a touch quicker and easier from the inside out..
> A



I will keep that in mind for next time. Since the File-n-joint has a depth gauge (as in how many strokes you can take) on it, I didn't want to move the holder, that way all teeth would be the same. But to file inside out I will need to move it, but maybe counting strokes is better than the depth gauge.


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## chuckwood (Dec 5, 2009)

mtngun said:


> You can finesse the HF grinder to give decent results, if you set it up so that it barely grazes the cutter.



It's nice to see someone not bashing this grinder, I wonder how many folks would admit to owning one? I got mine used for a lot less than 30 bucks, and couldn't resist the temptation to try it out. The wheel wobbles from side to side a bit, as the parts are all plastic, I've been thinking about getting new parts for it to see if it improves, but I've not really bothered because it gets my chains sharp anyhow. I've been told that grinders can overheat and disturb the temper of the cutting teeth, so the procedure is to sharpen with a swift, chopping motion, not letting the wheel make contact long enough to generate a lot of heat. I wonder if a wobbly wheel can accomplish the same, making contact for a fraction of a second, then backing off, etc.


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## oldsaw (Dec 5, 2009)

I've got one, and it works okay once you figure it out. I bought it to covert chains to ripping chains, usually sharpening by hand a couple or three times on them, then running the HF on them again. That system has worked well for me. Wish I had a nicer sharpener, but the money isn't there for it.

Yes, short bites, and keep in mind that when you work the other side of the chain, you have to set it up all over again or you will get uneven teeth. That, the flexible chassis, and the lack of power are the only real problems with it.
All of them can be worked around.

The only other times I use it is to fix a chain that's been boogered up. All of my crosscut chains I do by hand.


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## BobL (Dec 5, 2009)

AaronB said:


> I will keep that in mind for next time. Since the File-n-joint has a depth gauge (as in how many strokes you can take) on it, I didn't want to move the holder, that way all teeth would be the same. But to file inside out I will need to move it, but maybe counting strokes is better than the depth gauge.



Counting strokes is ok for touching up but you do have to at some stage actually measure the lengths of the cutters, usually after every few days milling is when I do it.

Once I settled on my working cutter parameters, I'm not all that concerned about them being too exact. I try to get raker depths within 0.005", cutter lengths within 0.010".


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## mtngun (Dec 5, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> It's nice to see someone not bashing this grinder, I wonder how many folks would admit to owning one?


People on AS laugh at me because I actually admit to using the $30 grinder and even claim to get decent results with it. 

For me, what worked was setting it up so that the wheel came down next to the cutter, then using a finger to push the flexy thing over against the cutter. This touches up the cutter nicely. 

If you try to come down into the cutter, taking a lot of metal off at once, the $30 grinder flexes a lot and gives inconsistent results.

But, Santa just dropped off a Jolly Star grinder  which I'll be reporting on later tonight.


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## BobL (Dec 5, 2009)

mtngun said:


> . . . . . .$30 grinder flexes a lot and gives inconsistent results.
> 
> But, Santa just dropped off a Jolly Star grinder  which I'll be reporting on later tonight.



Whoooo Hoooo!!!!


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## BlueRider (Dec 6, 2009)

The comments so far are spot on but I thought I would add a couple bits of info.

Regarding the direction of filling. Yes there is a preferd difection and it is the one bob gave. even before hard chrome plated chain there was still a reason for tis same directuion and it is due to the file raising a burr. if you only file from one direction it will only raise a burr on one side and the chain will pull in that direction.

The angle of hook contributes to how well the edge will wear. a more acute angle of hook will cut cut faster but the thin cutting edge will be fragile and will not hold its edge very long befor becomeing dull. think in extremes and it will become very clear. for instance think of a hook so acute that it is like a razor. How long do you think a chain made of razor blades would last? In contrast a more obtuse hook angle will be stronger and will hold its edge much better. Again think in extremes. For instance a shear used for cutting metal is a great example an obtuse cutting edge, it is nearly 90* and it holds up to cuting metal. Now the reason we don't want hook angles of 90* is because the chain would cut so slowly the powerhead would burn up. I don't remember where I read it but a good starting point for hook angles is 40*-50*. adjust for the hardness and abrasivness of the wood. 

Just for the record the hook angle is the angle that the tooth strikes the work surface. 

The dip in the gullet will have zero effect on the performance of the chain.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 6, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> The angle of hook contributes to how well the edge will wear. a more acute angle of hook will cut cut faster but the thin cutting edge will be fragile and will not hold its edge very long befor becomeing dull.



OK, I get it. I sure hope AaronB does since this is his post. Thanks bluerider. Though it sounds logical once you write it out, this is the detail I never found searching posts on sharpening. I searched a lot. I'm a 'by the numbers' guy but never considered how you can alter the geometry (quite easily with a guide) to tailer the cutter for your application, or preference. More hook, reduce the power required to make the cut but short lived edge. Less hook, more durability (within a small window of actual cutter/wood angles).
This little details explains why I see so much variation in numbers quoted. More hook _could_ support lower rakers...it all depends on how it cuts and what it's cutting. Amazing once you visualize shears and razors. 
So...just to be clear here. All cutters the same length (within a small window), all rakers the same height (within a small window and of course varied as the cutter wears), balance the amount of hook against your file diameter, raker height to obtain a cut in your wood you are happy with. Hmm...easy enough now that I see it's all rather subjective.
I know I'm going on and on here but to me....the whole point of all of this equipment is to get a cutter in the proper place. If the cutter isn't perfect...I'm just burning fuel. I now see that a "perfect cutter" is rather elusive. One that is close, isn't hard to understand.


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## oldsaw (Dec 6, 2009)

Andrew, look at it this way. There is no "perfect" cutter, only approximations to it. It's always a trade off between speed and durability. You are trying to strike a balance on geometry, while maintaining some semblance of order on cutter length and rakers. Kind of like "organized chaos." You do the best you can, and a real high end grinder can get you consistency on tooth size and raker height, but can't do anything with the natural compromises of cutting angles, except make the compromise consistent.


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## BlueRider (Dec 6, 2009)

In my previous post about hook angles I forgot to mention a vary important effect hook angle can have on chain performance, quite possibly THE most important one to understand. Bob touched on the fact that a more acute hook angle will cause the chain to self feed. in the extreme it can cause the chain to be "grabby" excess power can cancel this out and this is the direction race chains go. In the other extreme of an obtuse hook angle the chain can become more prone to bouncing out of the cut. this can be very dangerous and this it is one more consideration of why milling chain should only be used for milling.

Andrew touched on how a chain can be tailored to optimise the power of the saw. This is can be true but I still run my rakers at .035" with a hook of around 50*. I am however runing this on an 075 which has the torque to pull this combo and by going to the deeper rakers I can gain a bit of cutting speed that I lack in rpm's.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 7, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> There is no "perfect" cutter, only approximations to it. It's always a trade off between speed and durability.



That's what I didn't know. I thought there was a 'perfect' cutter if I did enough research to find all the proper numbers, then used some solid techniques to get consistant and accurate dimensions. 



oldsaw said:


> a real high end grinder can get you consistency on tooth size and raker height, but can't do anything with the natural compromises of cutting angles, except make the compromise consistent.



Of course any grinder or filing guide cannot alter the compromise in the geometry you choose.....I kind of thought I would be able to make a nicer job of a cutter with a good quality guide when compaired to a grinder (the one fact....no grinding heat on the cutter!). Of coures, I'd spend more time doing it..... Fair assumption? 

Bluerider....


BlueRider said:


> In the other extreme of an obtuse hook angle the chain can become more prone to bouncing out of the cut. this can be very dangerous



I understand this....yes, that would be dangerous having a cutter that required pressure to keep it cutting. 



BlueRider said:


> and this it is one more consideration of why milling chain should only be used for milling.



I assume you mean..."any" chain ground to such an obtuse hook angle that it doesn't even self feed, is not good for any cutting, never mind milling. However, I cannot see why I would need milling chain (currently I don't have any). 
From what I gathered, milling chain has different top plate geometry. With the top plate angle at 10deg, not 25-35deg, to minimize the side forces on the cutter...giving less clearance in the kerf, and create a better finish. The drawback to milling chain...the low cutting angle (top plate) would require more power to pull through the cut....it still has the inherient hook angle comprimise (since I now know...there isn't just one proper angle).

So I bet my cutter has more hook than a stihl factory one. Mine are nice and sharp...seem to last a long time, throw nice chips...BUT are not as smooth feeling while cutting. Hmm....so you think hook angle is the key? You say less grabby...I find out that means not as smooth vibration wise during a cut.


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## BobL (Dec 7, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> From what I gathered, milling chain has different top plate geometry. With the top plate angle at 10deg, not 25-35deg, to minimize the side forces on the cutter...giving less clearance in the kerf, and create a better finish. The drawback to milling chain...the low cutting angle (top plate) would require more power to pull through the cut....it still has the inherient hook angle comprimise (since I now know...there isn't just one proper angle).
> 
> So I bet my cutter has more hook than a stihl factory one. Mine are nice and sharp...seem to last a long time, throw nice chips...BUT are not as smooth feeling while cutting. Hmm....so you think hook angle is the key? You say less grabby...I find out that means not as smooth vibration wise during a cut.



Reducing your top plate filing angle will make the cutting smoother.


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## oldsaw (Dec 7, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> That's what I didn't know. I thought there was a 'perfect' cutter if I did enough research to find all the proper numbers, then used some solid techniques to get consistant and accurate dimensions.[/quote
> 
> Again, it's a balance. A miller needs a more durable cutting edge, a racer really wants speed, so the chains are filed differently. The thinner profile cutting edge on a racing chain will blow through a log in no time flat and throw huge chips. Outside of a few short cuts, durablility isn't that important. That's why race chains don't work in the field either.
> 
> ...


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## AaronB (Dec 7, 2009)

BobL said:


> Counting strokes is ok for touching up but you do have to at some stage actually measure the lengths of the cutters, usually after every few days milling is when I do it.
> 
> Once I settled on my working cutter parameters, I'm not all that concerned about them being too exact. I try to get raker depths within 0.005", cutter lengths within 0.010".



Is there a difference in using a caliper vs micrometer when measuring the teeth, as you had in step 3. I don't own a micrometer so I am not sure how they work, so that's where this comes from.


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## mtngun (Dec 7, 2009)

AaronB said:


> Is there a difference in using a caliper vs micrometer when measuring the teeth, as you had in step 3. I don't own a micrometer so I am not sure how they work, so that's where this comes from.


Caliper is fine for measuring lengths.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 8, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> A high quality grinder will give you consistency that a guide can't give you.



Thanks for your comments Oldsaw. I guess I'll have to revisit the high quality grinder again ...research the choices available for ones that fall into a the 'high quality' category. I like accuracy and consistancy...but of course would need to pick the best one for me.


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## excess650 (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm assuming a 3/8 chiain? For the first half or so of the tooth you might want to use the 7/32" file and then go to 13/64" as the tooth gets shorter. Stihl specs 13/64" on their 3/8" chains.

I have a cheapo file jig, but it works pretty well. The Granberg appears to be more substantial. Generally, I touch my chain up by eye, and save the grinder for straightening, evening things up after its been hand sharpened many times., or has been rocked.:censored:

Often times I'll touch up my milling chain while the 36" Alaskan is still attached. One side gets filed fromt he inside, and the other from the outside. Filing from the outside doesn't leave a burr.


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## BobL (Dec 8, 2009)

excess650 said:


> Often times I'll touch up my milling chain while the 36" Alaskan is still attached. One side gets filed fromt he inside, and the other from the outside. Filing from the outside doesn't leave a burr.



I can easily touch up my chain on the mill. I have this nice table that I lay the mill over on its side as shown and then clamp it to the table.






Filing the cutters facing away from underneath is dead easy - I even sit down to do it.

Filing the other side is little trickier but the long tubular handle that runs the full length of the mill is sufficiently far enough away from the bar for me to get access from the top/side of the mill. To file the other side I stand behind the mill in this photo and lower my chest onto the tubular bar and the left arm goes over the top and the right one comes up from underneath to hold the file. I sounds awkward but it is quite a comfortable position to touch up from.


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## stipes (Dec 9, 2009)

*Pic #6....*



AaronB said:


> I have the Granberg File-n-joint but have some questions about filing in general. Per the Oregon box I am to use a 7/32 file, which I did.
> 
> My question is how to you know how high the file is to be above the cutter. I have read 1/5 or 1/10th of the file above the tooth, but when I set the file to what I think that is, based on pictures I have seen, the file makes a 'dip' in the gullet.
> 
> ...



Thats the type of hook I like...For me cutting tru dirty red oak if I get too much hook,,it wont last long till ya have to sharpen....Not enough hook,,you'll spend most of your time pushing...I think your really,,close on this....I'd run that chain!!!


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## DRB (Dec 11, 2009)

Just thought that this maybe of some interest to some of you that use a file-o-pate. Pages 18 to 20 were interesting to me.

http://www.baileysonline.com/PDF/carlton_fileoplate.pdf

I did not know that the cutter tooth tipped back while in the cut? If this actually happens then this explains why I have always been able to make a chain cut till the teeth are gone. I have seen half worn chains that friends have told me would not cut so they buy a new one. I have always use a file-o-plate to set raker depth but did not know about progressive raker depth. 

Just thought that this fit into this topic.


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## BobL (Dec 11, 2009)

DRB said:


> Just thought that this maybe of some interest to some of you that use a file-o-pate. Pages 18 to 20 were interesting to me.
> 
> http://www.baileysonline.com/PDF/carlton_fileoplate.pdf
> 
> ...



It sure does - huge gory details about FOPs (and some of their possible small failings) here http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=114624


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## DRB (Dec 11, 2009)

Now your hurting my head  I will have to abandon the family and and read up on my chain sharpening. I just spent the last 2 days in the shop correcting all my field sharpened chains. Correcting a 50" bar chain with calipers by hand takes quite awhile. I am fairly happy with the way my chains cut but always looking for a better and faster cut.

Thanks for the info Bob


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## Andrew96 (Dec 12, 2009)

I too have been reading too much about sharpening, angles, wear. I recently found out I was inadvertantly doing it wrong (hook angle a bit much)....and I need (OK I want) a grinder to get more repeatability and consistancy. 

What I cannot quantify is the chain tension adjustment. I think it would affect the porpoising that the cutter does during a pass through the wood. 

This past summer I learned that the cutter 'dives' into the wood. Tips in if you would. 

My assumptions here: 
In order to do this..it's needs some slack in the chain. Bigger bars need more slack as more cutters need to be tipped in along the length of the cut (I assume more than one is cutting at any given time). Now I understand that the rakers only allow the cutter to tip so much...but if the chain tension itself is too high...or rather not loose enough...wouldn't all this tipping up, porpoising use up all my slack and bind..loosing power? Possibly impeding multiple cutters from tipping up? 
Since I'll confess I don't know what the h*&% I'm doing.....Has anyone hung a weight off a properly tensioned chain and measured the deflection? It's how you set anything tensioned repeatedly. Around here everyone has worked over all of the geometry for the cutters. I would think chain tension has an important role....deserves more attention than I've given it.


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## mtngun (Dec 12, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> I need (OK I want) a grinder to get more repeatability and consistancy.


I have better luck with a grinder, but many swear by filing. Either way, there is a learning curve. It took me about a year to get good results with the $30 chinese grinder. It may take me another year to master the Jolly Star. 

I can touch up a chain with a file in between grindings, but it's nice to rely on the grinder to restore consistent angles and lengths.



> What I cannot quantify is the chain tension adjustment. I think it would affect the porpoising that the cutter does during a pass through the wood.


I believe the side of the bar that is doing the cutting will be in tension, because the saw is pulling it through the wood. The slack will be on the opposite side of the bar. 

If a chain is too loose, it is prone to derailing. If a chain is too tight, it creates excess friction. My rule of thumb is to snug it up until the drivers are inside the bar, yet loose enough that I can grab the chain and pull it away from the bar.

Andrew, you worry too much.  As you spend more time milling and playing with saws, you'll gradually find techniques that you are comfortable with. 

The only urgent issue, IMHO, is to learn to tune your saw a little rich so you don't burn it up. 

A while back we had a member who had just started milling, and like many newbies, he was using a mid-sized saw, a new MS361 if I remember correctly. He assumed the dealer had tuned it correctly and then proceeded to fry the new saw while milling. So ya gotta learn to tune your saw. No hurry on the other stuff.


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## BobL (Dec 12, 2009)

mtngun said:


> If a chain is too loose, it is prone to derailing. If a chain is too tight, it creates excess friction. My rule of thumb is to snug it up until the drivers are inside the bar, yet loose enough that I can grab the chain and pull it away from the bar.



Yep, the bottom of the ties should just make contact with the bar. Then spin the chain and check the tie strap bottoms are still making contact.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 13, 2009)

OK, so I've been doing the chain tension correctly all along. It can't hurt to ask....It's these longer bars and the way the cutter cuts that got me thinking. I've been hand filing chains for a long time..... back in the day when my Dad told me I had to learn to sharpen a saw before I could cut with it. 

It's not that I worry so much about stuff...just don't want to miss some little detail when I have so many experienced people around here. You can read old posts for hours and still learn stuff. 



mtngun said:


> The only urgent issue, IMHO, is to learn to tune your saw a little rich so you don't burn it up.



Well...that's the least of my problems. I'm confident in is setting up the saw to run rich under load. It's ruch but I also did a plug chop just to make sure. Very good point though. If others don't understand, you could ruin a nice machine quickly.


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2009)

DRB said:


> Now your hurting my head  I will have to abandon the family and and read up on my chain sharpening. I just spent the last 2 days in the shop correcting all my field sharpened chains. Correcting a 50" bar chain with calipers by hand takes quite awhile. I am fairly happy with the way my chains cut but always looking for a better and faster cut.
> 
> Thanks for the info Bob



No worries, I just posted more geeky sharpness ideas on the Chainsaw FOP sticky - see here - http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=114624


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