# Firewood----Dump Trailer----Not Satisfied



## Moss Man (May 13, 2011)

I posted a while back that I had sold my one ton dump truck to get a dump trailer to haul firewood and I've been hauling my friends trailer until mine gets in. I far prefered hauling with my dump truck. I have been hauling a 6x10' Downeaster deckover with my 2005 Chevy 3500 single rear wheel 6.0 automatic and it works alot harder than my old 87 GMC 3500 dual rear wheel with a 350 4-speed did. Rough roads are where the real issues set in with the loaded trailer. 

I dunno, I'm going to ask the trailer shop if I can back out of the PJ Trailer and look for a truck with a dump body.

With all the rave reviews of the dump trailers, I thought it'd be the cats meow. I suppose if my truck was a big block or a diesel, it'd handle things better and I could have a gooseneck.................if money grew on trees.


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## audible fart (May 13, 2011)

One of the many reasons i'll never buy a truck with an automatic transmission.


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## MiracleRepair (May 13, 2011)

audible fart said:


> One of the many reasons i'll never buy a truck with an automatic transmission.



Agreed.


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## Moss Man (May 13, 2011)

audible fart said:


> One of the many reasons i'll never buy a truck with an automatic transmission.


 
I agree about the automatics, but I also plow driveways and the standard transmission isn't the right rig for that.


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## audible fart (May 13, 2011)

Moss Man said:


> I agree about the automatics, but I also plow driveways and the standard transmission isn't the right rig for that.


 
Well, i'd argue the opposite and i've plowed with both. Automatic transmissions have a unique way of tearing themselves apart and making the wrong decision.


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## Moss Man (May 13, 2011)

audible fart said:


> Well, i'd argue the opposite and i've plowed with both. Automatic transmissions have a unique way of tearing themselves apart and making the wrong decision.


 
As far as plowing goes, I'm not saying the automatic is stonger, just far more convenient when you are doing 30-40 driveways. If I just did my own driveway, then a standard it'd be.


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## audible fart (May 13, 2011)

Moss Man said:


> As far as plowing goes, I'm not saying the automatic is stonger, just far more convenient when you are doing 30-40 driveways. If I just did my own driveway, then a standard it'd be.


 
To each their own. I'm not kidding when i say this: I hate automatic transmissions like Osama bin Laden hated america. So i'm pretty biased.


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## MNGuns (May 13, 2011)

Every wonder why the vast majority of semis, dump trucks, etc are manual transmissions...? 

Now my 2005 F350 had a pretty darn good auto trans in it. Too bad the 6.0L engine was such a pile.

As for firewood deliveries to residences, I have found that trucks are a good bit easier to manuver in tight places than trailers. I have used both.


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## Moss Man (May 13, 2011)

Actually the post wasn't completely to question the automatic transmission, it was more about hauling 10,000 pounds behind a truck instead of 6000 on it.


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## CUCV (May 13, 2011)

I delivered wood with a dump trailer for for 16 years, it does have its perks over a dump truck in some instances but buying my Kodiak c4500 last year was the best thing. I started out with a homemade dump trailer that I modified until it was just perfect for me. Sold it to buy a new 2004 Load trail (same as PJ). It towed nice but I hated how long of a pile it layed out. Last year I sold it to help buy the c4500. During the same time frame I picked up a totaled Brimar similar to the downeaster you are borrowing. I got it all back together and use it hear and there where the trailer has benefits over the dump truck. 

When I just delivered with the dump trailer I had a 6.0L and a Duramax. The 6.0L always got the job done but it was screaming when towing. It was probably my favorite plow truck. The Duramax towed the dump trailers very well.

So from my experience the PJ will tow much better than the downeaster. I hate any bumps in the roads with the Brimar.
For me the dump trailer is low cost and overhead and I can have the truck free when the trailer has a load of wood on it. The dump truck is more maneuverable and dumps a nicer pile.


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## Oldtimer (May 13, 2011)

Yes, ya need a gooseneck and lower gearing.

As for auto vs standard, I used to be 200% against auto, I was a standard man, PERIOD.

Then I bought this F550 with the PSD and an auto.

Fugedaboutit. I plow, haul as much as 10K in the back, whatever else I can find...and the auto is the mutts nutts.

Nothing compares to an auto for moving a heavy load from a dead stop. And for plowing it's in another time zone. And I have plowed my whole life with all kinds of trucks.

As for big rigs, surprise surprise!! Lots of them now come with an Allison auto. I know of 4 brand new log trucks (Tractor-trailer) with Automatic transmissions. The drivers LOVE them.
I had an L8000 Ford with a Cat / Allison and it was awesome.


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## loadthestove (May 13, 2011)

I could see the benefits and downfalls of both.In Ky it is much cheaper to own a trailer than another truck.
After yearly taxes.liscense fees and insurance ownership of a second truck can get expensive.


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## Steve2910 (May 14, 2011)

*My 2 CENTS*

Auto trans are for companies w/ idiot employees who can't drive a stick W/O killing clutches---- owner-operators will get greater mileage (I'm getting 25 w/ my 05 3500 Dodge Cummins) & longevity from a stick. Also, newer trucks w/ hydraulic clutches are not the bear to plow with like the older manual clutches were years ago. We used to call it "clutch-foot" when you thought your leg would fall off from exhaustion after plowing all night W/ the SM465s in the Chevys.


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## arlen (May 14, 2011)

*Dump kt for pick up bed*

I own a dump trailer that is heavy with steel plate sides and bottom. It seems pretty indestructible. i have beefed it up a little more it is great to dump and super cheap to keep registered. 7 year permanent trailer plate $100.- I think. I bought the trailer used for $4000. out the door from a rental yard it was custom built for them. It is heavy, needs a lot of space to back up, and hard to maneuver in tight spaces. It is also cheap to operate compared to another vehicle. It cost me $400 a year to have a car registered and claim zero miles usage. I have a 1995 Ford F250 I was thinking of putting a dump kit on the regular truck bed and use a bed liner how would this work? i think a dump kit would cost around $1,000 it says dump angle is 45 degrees. In California you need to drive through the scales with anything other than a pickup bed on a truck.


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## Moss Man (May 14, 2011)

You all bring some valid points to the table on this.

The main issue is that the truck is the cats meow for plowing and a tad on the defficient side for hauling a heavy trailer. I'm not exactly in the position to be buying a beefier truck at the moment, so I'll wait for the PJ Trailer to come in and see how things go with that. The one thing that will be good about the PJ Trailer is that I will be able to haul my tractors on it when need be.

Are there any issues around plowing with a diesel motor in a 2500 or 3500 series truck? Just asking because I have little experience with diesels other than an old 6.2 Detroit that I had in a 2500 GMC years ago.


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## STLfirewood (May 14, 2011)

I have dumop trailer and love them. I think most of your issue is with the truck. When I'm towing with the Dodge 2002 4x4 diesel. I get between 12.5 and 14.5 mpg towing 2 plus cords. It does a good job I don't beat on it. I also have a 1-ton flatbed truck that I will use when I only have a cord of so to deliver. Problem is it's a V-10 ford and will do 10mpg at best. I get around 7.5mpg with the chip box and chipper on it. That that is only going 55-60 tops. The chip box catches a lot of wind and the chipper weighs 6k. I like using the dump trailer because the keep me from buying a bigger truck. I'll put 2 cords on the trailer and one cord on my F-550 and go deliver. If I was just hauling on a truck I would have to have a big truck to move that much. Having both also helps me keep my firewood seperate. I can put kiln on one and regular on the other. I have thought about a bigger truck but I have to have 4x4 and my F-550 has that. 

Scott


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## blades (May 14, 2011)

Really no issue plowing with a diesel vs gas. some say they get better fuel usage from the diesel during plowing, kind of a moot point as around here diesel is priced at premium gas. So really not much savings there. I have had both, maint. cost was higher on the diesel than my gas. Currently running a v10 F350 99 vintage, it replaced my 6.9 diesel F350 89 vintage. The 6.9 was a pretty clean eng. ( not much electronic gizmos to die, no turbo to blow). I have many friends running the diesels in newer trucks, mostly fords 6.0 and 6.4 a couple still have the 7.3. Issues arise with either fuel just usually costs more to repair the diesel than my gas. My V10 does just fine hauling or pushing and with a 4:55 rear end I don't expect much in mileage.


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## TMFARM 2009 (May 14, 2011)

i have seen a lot of issue's with the 7.3 6.0 and 6.4 liter fords, mainly stemming from bio diesel blends... the bio diesel tends to eat the lining from inside the fuel tanks sending the silver type flakes into the fuel injection system. clogging the filters and what does get by the filters, will do damage to the injectors.. also the 6.0l is prone to loosing oil pressure to the top end.. but longevity wise we get an average of (7.3l) 700,000 miles (6.0l) 400,000 miles and 6.4l is still to be announced. these are all ford e series ... average mileage on the transmissions is about 200,000 miles with absolutely no service done at all..just our experience with the fords.. i wont own a schuvy,
or generic made chevy..contractor grade stands for throw away at 200,000 miles..:msp_w00t:


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## Whitespider (May 15, 2011)

Steve2910 said:


> Auto trans are for companies w/ idiot employees who can't drive a stick W/O killing clutches----


 
Actually that thinkin' is 180-degree off... or used to be.

Back when auto transmissions were controlled by vacuum modulators and mechanical linkages it took someone with skill and knowledge to drive one without burnin' it up. There was a trick to controlling the throttle vs. RPM's so the trany would shift solid without slipping and/or overheating. Now-a-days the on-board computer can override operator inputs, protecting the transmission from damage.


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## Oldtimer (May 18, 2011)

IMO, a diesel is far superior to a gas job for plowing. Mine never sees above 1400 RPM unless I am traveling to another customer.
Sips fuel and has more than enough pushing power.


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## woodgrenade (May 18, 2011)

I like standards. A clutch is alot cheaper than the guts of an automatic. However, unless I'm wrong new 3/4 Chevys and Fords don't have any standard tranny options. umpkin2:


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## audible fart (May 18, 2011)

woodgrenade said:


> I like standards. A clutch is alot cheaper than the guts of an automatic. However, unless I'm wrong new 3/4 Chevys and Fords don't have any standard tranny options. umpkin2:


 
Repped.


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## Johndirt82 (May 18, 2011)

I have to say my 08 dodge with a 6.7 cummins with its auto 6spd but has ability to manually shift gears as well. is the shizzinit. I love it. My 79 ford is 4spd manual. I love them both. Big trailers are great if you have the space. If not stick with a diesel powered plant and get the dump bed.


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## CJ1 (May 19, 2011)

I get double the mileage with my 7.3 PS than I did with my 6.0 GM. The GM was 4.0to5 plowing and the diesel is never under 8. Diesel would have to be double to negate that. I had 5 new GM rigs from 88 to 2001, Then I picked up a 2001 F250 with a auto trans and have no desire to change. As far as the stick VS auto the only place I like a stick anymore is in a performance car. Heck I had a auto in my drag race car. The only place you see a stick in oilfield service trucks is when the customer wants to place above 30hp with PTO's otherwise it is all autos with the exception of class 7 and 8 trucks and like was stated alot of them are going to autos. CJ


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## mooseracing (May 19, 2011)

Moss Man said:


> Are there any issues around plowing with a diesel motor in a 2500 or 3500 series truck? Just asking because I have little experience with diesels other than an old 6.2 Detroit that I had in a 2500 GMC years ago.


 
Just keep an eye on front axle weight depending on the plow setup.

Otherwise I would rather use a diesel.


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## indiansprings (May 19, 2011)

We haul wood constantly, along with farm implements live stock, etc.
I hate bumper pull trailers, gooseneck trailers are the only way to pull heavy loads, the weight distrobution is right over the rear axles of the truck, and you can back a gooseneck much easier than bumper pull. All our trucks have automatics, never had a problem with any of the general motors trannies, only issue was with a dodge automatic behind a cummins. 
We prefer to use our 3500 HD chevy dually with a nine 8' wide x 9' long dump bed. It is so easy to deliver in, we put a cord and a half on it all the time, I'm thinking of adding sides to allow us to haul tow cord, we bought the truck with a blow 6.0 and replaced it with a little 5.3, people told us we would be grossly underpowered, that was total horse crap, we pull 18-20k loads of hay and implements with no issue. With 4:56 gears, it has no problems at all.
We used a 6-7 ton farm wagon hoist under the bed that we bought for a 175.00 at a used implement dealer. The 12v hydraulic unit was about 300.00, we used 1.5" cold rolled steel bar stock for the pivot pin, had it all installed in a day and a half. The dump bed is so handy, best thing we've had on a truck.


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## CRThomas (Jun 5, 2011)

*Truck and trailer*

I have c4500 gmc with a 6 speed alison 2007 have not had a minutes trouble I pull a 30 ft trailer half tilt for my tractor but when I deliver wood I use my old 97 ford half ton with a 6 speed manual. I do only firewood. In the wood business you have to go thru trial and Pay for the mistakes. I tried a dump trailer but it didn't work for me. What works for some body else won't work for you so make your mistakes and live with it. I have spent a lot of money on peoples advise. So think before you listen to some body who is not in your shoes


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## some zilch (Jun 5, 2011)

i work for a large municipality, and they own hundreds of trucks from pickups to tractor trailers, and a variety of machinery. there is not 1 standard transmission in the fleet, and there hasnt been since the late '80s. EVERYTHING is automatic/hydrostat/powershift, no clutch pedals in anything including tractors. as with alot of companies, they must be able to put any yahoo in the truck and have them drive it without replacing clutches once a month. alot of our so-called "truck drivers" have never driven a truck with a standard, much less a truck with a multi-range big truck tranny. 

before i got my job there, i applied to drive a tractor trailer at a local paper company. i went to this "group interview" type thing, and the man told us that anyone who cant drive std can leave now, and 9 of 12 people walked out. (!)

i have about 670kmi behind the wheel of a pete 379 doing heavy haul, and like my 18spds


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## Moss Man (Jun 5, 2011)

We've managed to haul over 30 cords so far with the Downeaster dump trailer and it's going OK, but it was still easier when I had the one ton dump truck. I got away from the dump truck because of the associated costs ie. insurance, registration, maintainance, rust repair, etc.. With the low volume of wood that we sell it's hard to have extra equipment around that doesn't get used for anything else besides wood delivery. At least with the larger trailer that I have coming this month I can haul my two John Deere tractors around. In a perfect world I'd have a dual wheel one ton with a diesel, but that isn't practical to drive around for anything other than work and I use my one ton single rear wheel almost every day on the road for something.

Yeah, about the trial and error, I have 50 years behind me and I still learn something new just about every day.......sometimes it's about situations, sometimes it's about people.


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## Patrick62 (Jun 7, 2011)

*My thots...*

I have delivered with a trailer a few times. It sucks. You never know what sort of interesting maneuvers you are going to have to get backed in. Much, much easier with a dump truck. Although the current 2 ton is pushing that envelope a bit...

this thread turned into a auto vs manual pissing contest.

Auto is okay if it is built right. Stick is okay if driven correctly. UPS uses almost all manuals. They figure the better fuel efficiency is worth it. Under very high HP conditions a automatic is necessary. Take into consideration that all the heavy equipment is automatic....think earth movers here.

My transmission tech (and yours as well) says that he can build a tranny you won't kill. Maybe, is my answer. give me a granny tranny and I am happy.


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## CJ1 (Jun 7, 2011)

Moss Man said:


> Yeah, about the trial and error, I have 50 years behind me and I still learn something new just about every day.......sometimes it's about situations, sometimes it's about people.


 
+1 I'll be in bad shape when I quit learning. I absolutly hate dealing with know it alls. If you know it all, why are you asking me and then get mad when I tell you something you don't like!!! CJ


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