# So you want to be a logger?



## Burvol (Jan 8, 2009)

I laughed when my job made the list for the worst occupation in the country this year...."Lumberjacks"...OK. Firefighters, EMT's, Welders and Construciton workers were all in the top 20 of worst jobs. That about covers my family, friends, and aquaintances. Even a nuclear decontamination technician was higher than us! 

I wonder when these people will realize that we all can't stare at a montior all day, sell ####, do customer service, and write software. People seem to think that breaking a sweat for your daily bread is bad...And we wonder why we are a nation of fat asses. 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123119236117055127.html?mod=yhoofront


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## xcr440 (Jan 8, 2009)

I also laughed as I am a welder/construction worker in the summer and I cut firewood cutter in the winter.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 8, 2009)

That's Ok, at least I still have my looks.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Burvol (Jan 8, 2009)

You should feel like crap. People on Wallstreet think we are low.


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## xcr440 (Jan 8, 2009)

oh I feel so worthless. What shall I ever do:hmm3grin2orange:


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## hutch3912 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Yea*

Not having to shave, shower, or wear a tie before I go to work is a real drag I see what they mean. I can wear what I want, look how I want, as long as the trucks are rolling nobody cares.


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## hutch3912 (Jan 8, 2009)

*huh*

They put philosopher in the top twenty. Must take allot of stomach to sleep knowing you get paid to sit around and think.


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## Tree Sling'r (Jan 8, 2009)

Nerds vs. Blue Collar.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks a lot Burvol! 

Plumber who fells/sells logs, cuts firewood, and does a little welding on the side.

Never realized things were going so badly.


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## forestryworks (Jan 8, 2009)

i saw that today also... the things that make the news these days :monkey:

it all boils down to doing what you love... not what other people expect of you or how they see where an occupation "ranks" among others


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## hutch3912 (Jan 8, 2009)

*treeslinger*

nice signature tree slinger


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## goatchin (Jan 8, 2009)

well holy crap us dairy farmers aint doin to bad after all LOL

yea i sorta notice that there Tree Sling'r-desk job ranking high and dawn to dusk job ranking in the tanker haha. 

Let them roll in the dough all they want, i'll just keep on rollin' in to bed tired every night knowing that I worked my ass off for the bed im sleeping in and being able to live a happy life away from the concrete jungle.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 8, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> it all boils down to doing what you love... not what other people expect of you or how they see where an occupation "ranks" among others



That's basically it. There's no point to doing a job just for the money unless you're in survival mode. I have friends who've taken white collar jobs for big bucks, but they're miserable- living in the middle of the city, tiny apartment, constant noise and people- they hate it. 

However- you can do what you love and be highly successful. A good friend of mine started his own septic pumping business, and does those porta-toilets on the side. After expenses, payroll taxes, equipment- He netted just over double what I made in 2008, and I had a damn good fire season. This season isn't shaping up to be as good, so I'm exploring alternatives. 

I've also posted before about the timber cutter who started his own janitorial/custodial business. That old boy is making great money and loves it.


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## Wood Scrounge (Jan 8, 2009)

I work with 3 or 4 of the groups on the left, and I GURANTEE you that MOST would give up their desk job to cut down trees or milk cows. They are miserable sitting at a desk under fluorescent lights from 9-5 going home to their condo or townhouse. The list was generated by elitist over educated no nothing know it alls. I should know I have been in both columns.


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## wilbilt (Jan 8, 2009)

I did 20 years as a brake/front end mechanic, wore out my back and knees.

Now I take care of 600 workstations and a bunch of servers for a school district. I also pull cable, bore through walls, dig ditches and whatever else it takes to get the network where it needs to be. I prefer these jobs to sitting behind a monitor.

The other techs think I'm strange because I wear work clothes and boots to work instead of Dockers and shiny shoes. So be it.


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## deeker (Jan 8, 2009)

*What about dangerous jobs,*

like gobbbbblins. It is bad for him to care for his landlords chickens. And really dangerous too.

I have gone from the office to the forest, I won't be going back.


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## forestryworks (Jan 8, 2009)

deeker said:


> like gobbbbblins. It is bad for him to care for his landlords chickens. And really dangerous too.



yeah, that had nothing to do with this thread :monkey:


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## deeker (Jan 8, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> yeah, that had nothing to do with this thread :monkey:



True, but I plead guilty. And I am a logger, and own a small sawmill.


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 8, 2009)

Why I didnt fallow the rest of the family into the logging buisiness for job security. Fortunately I have gotten to cut enough timber to almost keep me satisfied. But I do spend a lot of time wondering if I would of been happier in the woods. I have a glamour job fixing jets (knuckle draggin Mechanic). Probably some of the best years of my life I spent on a ranch runnin saws 15-20 hours a week plus fixen jets falling trees makin saw logs, skidden them out makin shingle and shake bolts fire wood. Loved the rewarding hard work. Read Owls,Burvols and Slingers posts and think thats what I always wanted to do just like my Grandad did.
Funny how people who spend their life in an office almost helpless doin any thing else lookin down on people that they would call if a 20 ft fir tree fell over in their yard.


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## deeker (Jan 8, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Why I didnt fallow the rest of the family into the logging buisiness for job security. Fortunately I have gotten to cut enough timber to almost keep me satisfied. But I do spend a lot of time wondering if I would of been happier in the woods. I have a glamour job fixing jets (knuckle draggin Mechanic). Probably some of the best years of my life I spent on a ranch runnin saws 15-20 hours a week plus fixen jets falling trees makin saw logs, skidden them out makin shingle and shake bolts fire wood. Loved the rewarding hard work. Read Owls,Burvols and Slingers posts and think thats what I always wanted to do just like my Grandad did.
> Funny how people who spend their life in an office almost helpless doin any thing else lookin down on people that they would call if a 20 ft fir tree fell over in their yard.



Good points. I spent a lot of the summer cutting dead spruce from camp sites. One of the camp hosts a hard core lib/greenie, watched me fell four or five 4'x 100'+ spruce. And asked, "why did you choose this line of work" , I replied it beats the hell out of working for a living.


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## PB (Jan 8, 2009)

#4 ain't bad. I wonder how retiring to be a dairy farmer will work out?


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## PB (Jan 8, 2009)

Here is how they are calculated. Read the comments at the bottom. 

http://www.careercast.com/jobs/content/JobsRated_Methodology


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## deeker (Jan 8, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Here is how they are calculated. Read the comments at the bottom.
> 
> http://www.careercast.com/jobs/content/JobsRated_Methodology



Thats a lot to digest, great info.


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## PB (Jan 8, 2009)

Logger: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos178.htm
Biologist: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos047.htm (I would fall under geneticist)


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## superfire (Jan 8, 2009)

*heck my job aint even on the list*

me i am ranch hand now. they think loggin is bad try punchin cows on foot mostly i retired from timber work. now just cut for the ranch and friends and fire wood


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## sILlogger (Jan 8, 2009)

*I know how to solve it!!!*

an all out brawl between the workers of the Best Jobs and the workers of the Worst Jobs...that is the only fair way to see who has it the worst!!!


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## PB (Jan 8, 2009)

sILlogger said:


> an all out brawl between the workers of the Best Jobs and the workers of the Worst Jobs...that is the only fair way to see who has it the worst!!!



Bring it! 

Hey how you been, haven't seen you for a while? School good? (can't remember if you graduated yet or not)


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## HolmenTree (Jan 8, 2009)

Logging, arborist work I would say is the most dangerous work . Crab fishermen were once called the most dangerous ,but now with more natural disasters more men are picking up the saw. I started felling trees for a large forestry company,union paid when I was 16 years old . I had a big passion for saws and in 1989 at 31 I was technical services manager at Stihl Canada. My boss Fred Whyte is now president of Stihl USA, my branch manager then Steve Meriam is now national sales and product development manager for Stihl USA. These guys pounded the pavement to get to where they are now, I really admire them for how far they have gone , but executive life style was not for me and said they can keep all their headaches. So I picked up the saw again and now at 50 I still love it and the young family I am raising. I don't think we have the worst job. If you have kids or grandchildren and can properly provide for them you GOT IT MADE.
Willard.


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## HolmenTree (Jan 8, 2009)

Heres something for the guys who want a cushy job at the top:

An eagle was sitting on a tree resting doing nothing.

A small rabbit saw the eagle and asked him, "Can I also sit like you and do nothing?" The eagle answered: "Sure why not."

So, the rabbit sat on the ground below the eagle and rested.

All of a sudden, a fox appeared, jumped on the rabbit and ate him.

Moral of the story:
To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be sitting very, very high up.


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## PB (Jan 8, 2009)

HolmenTree said:


> Heres something for the guys who want a cushy job at the top:
> 
> An eagle was sitting on a tree resting doing nothing.
> 
> ...



Cushy isn't the way I would describe my job. Safe and not very physically challenging (most days anyways). I have just as many deadlines and responsibilities as anyone else. If I get tenure someday, then it will be cushy.


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 8, 2009)

My airline mechanic job made #157


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## sILlogger (Jan 9, 2009)

sILlogger said:


> an all out brawl between the workers of the Best Jobs and the workers of the Worst Jobs...that is the only fair way to see who has it the worst!!!



ive been good. been staying really busy with work and school. ive got one semester before im done with my degree. and i've been working on a 160 acre clearcut, (cutting everything 8" and larger) that has to be done by April 1, it is gonna get strip mined and we are cutting all the trees before they bring the dozers in. so that is keeping me pretty busy.


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## slowp (Jan 9, 2009)

I don't even exist. As usual.  

At least you guys don't need to go to any stinkin' gym to work out.


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## Burvol (Jan 9, 2009)

Eye of the beholder....I think cutting timber is the best job in America, seriously. Aside from job stability and seasonal layoffs that can be longer than expected (or not) it's great!


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## Gologit (Jan 9, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Eye of the beholder....I think cutting timber is the best job in America, seriously. Aside from job stability and seasonal layoffs that can be longer than expected (or not) it's great!



Yup. We worked Monday and Tuesday, got blown out Wednesday, worked yesterday and got blown out again today. It's a selective cut with some narrow lays and they don't want skinned up leave trees.

I took climbing gear and some blocks with me this morning, thought maybe we could rig a couple of pull trees. By the time it got daylight, sitting there with the wind rocking the pickup, we talked ourselves right out of that idea. 

Don't pay any attention to those people in offices who decide that loggers have the worst job in the world. We've never been well thought of and we never will be. Just consider the source... they make their judgements based mostly on anecdotal evidence and hearsay. They really have no idea of who we are or what we do. They know as little about our world as we know 
about theirs. 

The only people whose opinion of you counts for anything are those closest to you...your family and your co-workers. The rest of them? Bean counters and pencil pushers? Scroom.


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## HolmenTree (Jan 9, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Eye of the beholder....I think cutting timber is the best job in America, seriously. Aside from job stability and seasonal layoffs that can be longer than expected (or not) it's great!



+1 You can't beat traveling to work in the early morning and meet only 1 or 2 vehicles, watching for wildlife, watching for fish running through the culverts. Smelling that clean quiet air. Before you start you saw and machinery you can hear that red headed woodpecker in the distance. The wood smoke from the warmup shack. Man I really really miss that after doing urban tree work for the last 10 years.
Every thing is green,dew on the ground , the smell of sawdust and then the pleasure at the end of the day at the landing pacing out your days production . How good that apple tastes on the way home. As your travelling through town on your way home your watching for the female wildlife with 2 legs walking down the sidewalks. Life doesn't get any better then this.


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## PB (Jan 9, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Yup. We worked Monday and Tuesday, got blown out Wednesday, worked yesterday and got blown out again today. It's a selective cut with some narrow lays and they don't want skinned up leave trees.
> 
> I took climbing gear and some blocks with me this morning, thought maybe we could rig a couple of pull trees. By the time it got daylight, sitting there with the wind rocking the pickup, we talked ourselves right out of that idea.
> 
> ...



Bob, you should be a motivational speaker. 

Although you did call me a bean counter and pencil pusher.


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## Metals406 (Jan 9, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Bob, you should be a motivational speaker.
> 
> Although you did call me a bean counter and pencil pusher.



Well, if the pencil fits...


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## PB (Jan 9, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Well, if the pencil fits...



That's what she said.


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## Metals406 (Jan 9, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> That's what she said.



ROLMAO!!

As long as she doesn't describe it to her girlfriends as, 'a pencil'. LOL


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## Cowboy Billy (Jan 9, 2009)

Lets see 3 weeks vacation VS my 3 to 4 months vacation + a rain day here and there.

Looking back being able to physically see the work I did. Being proud of the work I got done. VS worrying about the guy in the next cubical knifing me in the back and taking my job.


Hmm I must be crazy 

All I can say life is good here 

Billy


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## nrguenth (Jan 9, 2009)

So let me get this straight. A mathamatician has calculated, using many complex calculations, that the best job in the WHOLE world is.... mathamatician! :monkey: 




Burvol said:


> I laughed when my job made the list for the worst occupation in the country this year...."Lumberjacks"...OK. Firefighters, EMT's, Welders and Construciton workers were all in the top 20 of worst jobs. That about covers my family, friends, and aquaintances. Even a nuclear decontamination technician was higher than us!
> 
> I wonder when these people will realize that we all can't stare at a montior all day, sell ####, do customer service, and write software. People seem to think that breaking a sweat for your daily bread is bad...And we wonder why we are a nation of fat asses.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123119236117055127.html?mod=yhoofront


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## KD57 (Jan 9, 2009)

So I'm a real loser, all 4 of the jobs I have ever had in my life made the top 10


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## Metals406 (Jan 9, 2009)

KD57 said:


> So I'm a real loser, all 4 of the jobs I have ever had in my life made the top 10



Yup... Same here. All the jobs I have done, or do, were rated as the worst.

Guess I'm in good company!


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## GASoline71 (Jan 9, 2009)

I worked the flight deck of a US Navy aircraft carrier for years... We made crab fishermen look like pu$$ies... 

Most of the drips that compile those "lists" couldn't pack my lunch for a day... 

Gary


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## Metals406 (Jan 9, 2009)

Leave it to Gary to beat around the bush on the subject. :greenchainsaw: 

Hey Gary!! What do you think those nerds use for a coffee to creamer ratio!? LOL


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## windthrown (Jan 9, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> I worked the flight deck of a US Navy aircraft carrier for years... We made crab fishermen look like pu$$ies...
> 
> Most of the drips that compile those "lists" couldn't pack my lunch for a day...
> 
> Gary



_Flight Deck, OPS... _ 

Carrier flight deck duty is crazy stuff. I never was in the service, but I worked on a lot of fighter jets in my engineering days. 

I do not get these best job lists at all. A mathmatician is the best job? While a timber faller is the worst. By who's standards? Pure crap. When I was an engineer stuck in endless meetings and in front of a computer for hours on end, it sucked. The pay and benes were good. But the commute? Stress? Repetitive strain injuries? Boring meetings? Putting up with office politics? Cubicles? Dressing up in a suit and tie? No thanks. I do not miss that at all. When I am out in the woods falling trees, or using the chipper, I can only think about the task at hand. Otherwise I would be toast. Also I feel tired in a good way at the end of a day, instead of having to go to the gym and vent on the weight machines. Which over time just leads to more repetative strain. Yes, there are the rain-soaked days that I would rather be in a nice warm toasty office someplace. But far fewer of those than being stuck behind a desk, bored to tears thinking about being outside. Or listening to some manager drone on about putting in a lot of 'free' overtime to get some project done on time. 

I suppose Ski Patrl really sucks too. I did not see it on the list. Terrible working conditions, always in the snow, cold, outdoors, gawd awful conditions! Who would want to do that kind of crazy and insane work???


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## Jacob J. (Jan 9, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Eye of the beholder....I think cutting timber is the best job in America, seriously. Aside from job stability and seasonal layoffs that can be longer than expected (or not) it's great!



I agree, but I sure wouldn't try to support a family on modern cutter's wages. 



GASoline71 said:


> I worked the flight deck of a US Navy aircraft carrier for years... We made crab fishermen look like pu$$ies...
> 
> Most of the drips that compile those "lists" couldn't pack my lunch for a day...
> 
> Gary



Gary, that just flat out rocks, man. :rockn:


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## HolmenTree (Jan 9, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> I agree, but I sure wouldn't try to support a family on modern cutter's wages.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## windthrown (Jan 9, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> I agree, but I sure wouldn't try to support a family on modern cutter's wages.



That can be said for a lot of jobs out there though. From burger flipping to oil changing... (oops, I made the oil thread mistake again).


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## Jacob J. (Jan 9, 2009)

HolmenTree said:


> Yes pretty well all over the country the honest scale is gone. At the time before 24 hr mechanical harvesting if we got robbed on our scale or even just a tight one we would b!tch and ask for the government check scale and they weren't much better.The company still paid for it even if we didn't gain, but that sure helped loosen up the company scalers though. Mind you we had a union behind us.
> 
> Around here there are still a few hand fallers and line skidders left but they are getting pretty rare. Most of them spent the big bucks years ago on processors etc. and seem to now just keep the guys working when they can. But the word in the grapevine is talk of big paper orders coming around again, it will be a cycle that I will miss.



Scaling down here is pretty much a thing of the past. I'd look for busheling jobs if they were available here simply because a guy can highball and make a lot more coin in a short time. Most of the buddies I have working for themselves are getting a day rate right now of $300/day just to keep working. A few are making a bit less and a couple are making a bit more. 

Down here the real money in falling is either on the big fires or cutting for the helicopters. 



windthrown said:


> That can be said for a lot of jobs out there though. From burger flipping to oil changing... (oops, I made the oil thread mistake again).



I agree, I guess the point I was making was that there's a lot of people who pick up a saw thinking they're gonna be well off. Cold, brutal reality sets in quick though. My first year of contracting I grossed about $34k from cutting full time, had around $5k in equipment expenses (had to buy a new "Hi-Jacker" that year), just over $8k in payroll taxes ($1200 just for the broadform), and about $3200 in fuel and oil. So I didn't walk away with much. But I had a great time, and learned a lot.


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## windthrown (Jan 9, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> I agree, I guess the point I was making was that there's a lot of people who pick up a saw thinking they're gonna be well off. Cold, brutal reality sets in quick though. My first year of contracting I grossed about $34k from cutting full time, had around $5k in equipment expenses (had to buy a new "Hi-Jacker" that year), just over $8k in payroll taxes ($1200 just for the broadform), and about $3200 in fuel and oil. So I didn't walk away with much. But I had a great time, and learned a lot.



We all pay taxes, and every job has expenses. My first engineering job paid $30k a year. For about a 55 hour week. Oh, and all the travel time sitting in airports and stuff, not getting paid. Nor getting paid for clothes, or education expenses. It cost me a fortune to get my university degrees. And 5 years of my time and energy in college (making zero) to get them. Then after 15 years, my job was off-shored to some goons in China and India. Sold down the river by the multinational corporations. 

I tell kids now to forget college, and just get a job that cannot be off-shored. Like my nephew, who makes custom cabinets and installs them. Also my niece; she manages a pizza place. They cannot off-shore those jobs. 

I mean, this best job review thing, in this kind of a recession, just how much demand is there for a mathmatician, anyway? And I bet that they can do that kind of work in Chindia for cheaper too.


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## slowp (Jan 9, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> I worked the flight deck of a US Navy aircraft carrier for years... We made crab fishermen look like pu$$ies...
> 
> Most of the drips that compile those "lists" couldn't pack my lunch for a day...
> 
> Gary



Did you sunburn your lips? I did while working on the parking strip at the air tanker base. Really. It was in Winslow, AZ and my lip goo did not have sunscreen in it. Scary. My lips puffed up which wasn't the style then. And air tanker pilots ignored us anyway. But we got to stay in motels at night and not in fire camp.

I often have to help the lost nerdy tourists. Their GPS systems tell them to go on roads that are still snowed in, or they get fearful that the road might not really go back towards Portland, because it seems so far and isolated. 

But, look on the bright side. The more people who think working in the woods is a bad thing means less competition for work in the woods.


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## forestryworks (Jan 9, 2009)

windthrown said:


> I tell kids now to forget college, and just get a job that cannot be off-shored.



or get a degree that gives you a job that cannot be off-shored


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## windthrown (Jan 9, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> or get a degree that gives you a job that cannot be off-shored



Most of those do not pay well enough to justify the expenses for college.


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## windthrown (Jan 9, 2009)

slowp said:


> I often have to help the lost nerdy tourists. Their GPS systems tell them to go on roads that are still snowed in, or they get fearful that the road might not really go back towards Portland, because it seems so far and isolated.



No no no! Tell them that the roads are fine, and they should trust their GPS systems, and to keep on going as deep into the snow as possible. That way the woods will eat them all, and they will not return to Portland. This place is full enough as it is. 

All roads lead to Portland anyway. Damn old wagon train day roads here are all going to and from Portland. No lateral roads, or roads that go around and avoid Portland. Also the Green-line here keeps them all cooped up in high-denisty apartments and monster homes inside, and zero development outside. I would say that the development plan in Oregon is failing, and miserably at that.


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## slowp (Jan 9, 2009)

windthrown said:


> No no no! Tell them that the roads are fine, and they should trust their GPS systems, and to keep on going as deep into the snow as possible. That way the woods will eat them all, and they will not return to Portland. This place is full enough as it is.
> 
> All roads lead to Portland anyway. Damn old wagon train day roads here are all going to and from Portland. No lateral roads, or roads that go around and avoid Portland. Also the Green-line here keeps them all cooped up in high-denisty apartments and monster homes inside, and zero development outside. I would say that the development plan in Oregon is failing, and miserably at that.



A friend of my dad's showed us a picture of my grandpa all dressed up in a bowler hat and spats at Jantzen Beach? celebrating Portland's 50th anniversary I think. So I can't bash Portlanders too much. 

The train they built is good when you are a tourist though. And Portlanders helped our group of visiting outlanders when we got a bit too likkered up and got on the wrong train and were heading to the airport instead of to the Rose Quarter. One guy even walked us to our destination. He didn't rob us or anything either. 

So, I guess I'm just paying back. I'm not robbing them or anything either.


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## forestryworks (Jan 9, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Most of those do not pay well enough to justify the expenses for college.



there's all kinds of grant money and scholarships... i've had half my school paid for by grants, a few loans, and lots of scholarships. sure it's alot of paperwork - but it's worth the shot.

plus if you pay back your loans on time it makes your credit look good


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## Jacob J. (Jan 9, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Most of those do not pay well enough to justify the expenses for college.



I don't know about that, I have a number of friends who I went to high school with who went on to complete degrees and are doing very well. My brother got his civil engineering degree after being catastrophically injured while logging, and is now making more than double than his best year as a hook tender.


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## HolmenTree (Jan 10, 2009)

Education is the key!

I took a summer job when I was 16 and never went back to school in 1974.
A 16 yr old just can't do that today. When most half decent paying jobs at large companies won't take you if you don't have grade 12.


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## PB (Jan 10, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Most of those do not pay well enough to justify the expenses for college.



Wow. I think you need to re-examine what college graduates make. Of course there are those people on the "other" side of campus that study art and communications that have made them overqualified to work at McDonald's.


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## Ske-bum (Jan 10, 2009)

Burvol said:


> You should feel like crap. People on Wallstreet think we are low.



You should accept that as a compliment. Wall Street is a major reason the economy is in tank, people have lost their live savings and the nation is on the brink of a depression. Yeah, Wall Street has room to take shots at hard working people, many of which actually pay their bills.


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## Burvol (Jan 10, 2009)

Ske-bum said:


> You should accept that as a compliment. Wall Street is a major reason the economy is in tank, people have lost their live savings and the nation is on the brink of a depression. Yeah, Wall Street has room to take shots a hard working people, many of which actually pay their bills.



Oh I do. I posted this because I found it entertaining. My family is damn near all loggers, 4-5 generations back. I know the ruotine. There are times when a guy can make money, and there are time that are pretty hard for timber folks. These figures can be expressed in decades.  

I cut timber because it's the only thing I can enjoy doing day in and day out. There's something about having a job that some people don't want anything to do with it because they think it's nuts, and some people want, but they can't hack it. I know for a fact that all of the loggers on here have a lot of pride, the good pride, and we know that the people that write this crap are inferior to us. We could push a pencil into their foreheads. Kinda primitive, but you can't help but resort to violence on some of these people (God I need to go back to work Monday).


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## Tree Sling'r (Jan 10, 2009)

I make good money, my wife makes good money, but the IRS won't let you keep it. I honestly have $88,000 in legitimate write off this year, only because I had to.
I would have rather made $60,000 on the books and not have to worry about the book keeping, the state and the IRS.


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## Burvol (Jan 10, 2009)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I make good money, my wife makes good money, but the IRS won't let you keep it. I honestly have $88,000 in legitimate write off this year, only because I had to.
> I would have rather made $60,000 on the books and not have to worry about the book keeping, the state and the IRS.



Damn Jasha, sounds like you have a lot of work in your area. I would be happy to stay busy with my wage most of the year and make some money. Things have been coming up with my fiance's health (This is not a CALVIN-ESQUE POST). I have had to miss a lot of work for doctor appointments, surgery, ect. I feel for her, 25 and so kind and beautiful. What us regular folks have and take for granted is amazing. She has great health insurance working at a hospital, or we'd be screwed.

I finally got a cutting deal on the books this year, and I'm happy about that. They're paying me a great hourly wage, comp, ect. plus I have no IRS headaches this year coming up. Looks like we have a lot of nice, nice wood (all export fir) and the export market is doing good. I hope to have a good start to the year....I want one of your 390's. 

I am also looking to cut on some fires this year. Maybe I can get some info from you or Jacob this summer?


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## 056 kid (Jan 10, 2009)

Ske-bum said:


> You should accept that as a compliment. Wall Street is a major reason the economy is in tank, people have lost their live savings and the nation is on the brink of a depression. Yeah, Wall Street has room to take shots a hard working people, many of which actually pay their bills.






VERY true, my dad has lost TOOOOOOO MUCHHHHH $ in the stock market.


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## slowp (Jan 10, 2009)

Here's a way to look at it. If you were stranded on an island, and since most of you are guys, we will consider it a default that you'd want a pretty woman with you, but besides that, would you want a mathamatician or a logger along? I'd go for the logger because whereas the math expert would probably be computing the odds of getting rescued, the logger would be scrounging around for stuff that was washed up to jury rig something that would aid in getting off the island. And he'd have some entertaining stories to tell. 

There's a few guys I've run into who did go to college, got degrees and hated the office work and the urban living so much that they went back to logging.


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## Burvol (Jan 10, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's a way to look at it. If you were stranded on an island, and since most of you are guys, we will consider it a default that you'd want a pretty woman with you, but besides that, would you want a mathamatician or a logger along? I'd go for the logger because whereas the math expert would probably be computing the odds of getting rescued, the logger would be scrounging around for stuff that was washed up to jury rig something that would aid in getting off the island. And he'd have some entertaining stories to tell.
> 
> There's a few guys I've run into who did go to college, got degrees and hated the office work and the urban living so much that they went back to logging.




I went to night school while cutting timber to finish a degree I started on years ago. I friggin' barely pulled that one off. I figured if I have to pay back money for school, I might as well have a degree. By golly it took three years, but I got my flimsy 2 year degree framed in my office. Kind of a "told you so, what the hell was I thinking?" to myself.
I am happy to say that I love to work hard, sweat and feel alive when I come home. I know that I would be miserable inside, even when it's cold out. Unless I made crazy money, benies, and tons of time off during Elk/Chinook season, then I might be able to even think about it. Until then, no way.


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## PB (Jan 10, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's a way to look at it. If you were stranded on an island, and since most of you are guys, we will consider it a default that you'd want a pretty woman with you, but besides that, would you want a mathamatician or a logger along? I'd go for the logger because whereas the math expert would probably be computing the odds of getting rescued, the logger would be scrounging around for stuff that was washed up to jury rig something that would aid in getting off the island. And he'd have some entertaining stories to tell.
> 
> There's a few guys I've run into who did go to college, got degrees and hated the office work and the urban living so much that they went back to logging.



Step on up guys, would you want to be stranded on an island with a logger or mathematician? opcorn: opcorn:


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## Jacob J. (Jan 10, 2009)

Burvol said:


> I finally got a cutting deal on the books this year, and I'm happy about that. They're paying me a great hourly wage, comp, ect. plus I have no IRS headaches this year coming up. Looks like we have a lot of nice, nice wood (all export fir) and the export market is doing good. I hope to have a good start to the year....I want one of your 390's.
> 
> I am also looking to cut on some fires this year. Maybe I can get some info from you or Jacob this summer?



Jesse- I'm glad to hear you're making good coin as an employee. That's way easier. 

If you're gonna do the fire thing this year, you need to get started on the paperwork now. Guys who wait until May/June to sign up miss out on a lot of work. I'll send you the info you need to get started in PM.

Some of the 'associations' like Northwest Timber Fallers and North Zone Fallers have a lot of the firefighting falling contracting locked up. This is both good and bad. It's good in that you're pretty much guaranteed to get high quality fallers on fires. It's bad in that it makes it much harder for Joe Blow falling contractor to sign up. 

In the old days they had what was called 'Pre-season' agreements (some remote Forest Service and State forestry agencies still do those.) A pre-season agreement was essentially a call-when-needed contract specifying wages, availability, and equipment provided. My dad worked for the Forest Service and B.L.M. for years on pre-season agreements. 

You can probably get a pre-season agreement up there on Mt. Hood. I'll look up some contracting officers and forward their numbers. All of the districts are still doing pre-season agreements for such things as dozers, road graders, potable water and porta-toilets. The water tenders, contract engines, and contract handcrews now are national contracts dispatched through BIFC.


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## husky455rancher (Jan 10, 2009)

i believe the quote was from caddyshack "the world needs ditch diggers too" ive been a welder/ fabricator since before i could legally work. at 18 i started it full time. 3-4 years ago i got into tree cutting. lets see whats the next worst job, maybe ill start a porta potty cleaning business lmao. 

i dunno why people down the workin man. if it wasnt for guys like us nothing would get done. we see something that has to be done and we do it. simple as that. problem is every kid now a days is gonna go to college and major in business. good luck finding a job when everyones gunning for the same thing. 

they can have their office jobs i like workin woth my hands and gettin dirty.


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 10, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's a way to look at it. If you were stranded on an island, and since most of you are guys, we will consider it a default that you'd want a pretty woman with you, but besides that, would you want a mathamatician or a logger along? I'd go for the logger because whereas the math expert would probably be computing the odds of getting rescued, the logger would be scrounging around for stuff that was washed up to jury rig something that would aid in getting off the island. And he'd have some entertaining stories to tell.
> 
> There's a few guys I've run into who did go to college, got degrees and hated the office work and the urban living so much that they went back to logging.


Thats always been my way of stacking people if I was lost or in a natural disaster who would I want with me. 
Gold star for jury Rig. Makes me want to pull my hair out when people say jerry rig.


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## wilbilt (Jan 11, 2009)

husky455rancher said:


> problem is every kid now a days is gonna go to college and major in business. good luck finding a job when everyones gunning for the same thing.



The business majors aren't the ones that bother me. The ones becoming engineers scare me. These kids have never fixed anything, gotten their hands dirty or nailed two sticks together in their lives.

I think they need to physically know how tab "A" fits into slot "B" before they start designing bridges.


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## Burvol (Jan 11, 2009)

wilbilt said:


> The business majors aren't the ones that bother me. The ones becoming engineers scare me. These kids have never fixed anything, gotten their hands dirty or nailed two sticks together in their lives.
> 
> I think they need to physically know how tab "A" fits into slot "B" before they start designing bridges.



Tell me about it, that's my sister your describing.


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## slowp (Jan 11, 2009)

I tried to be an engineer. My dad was one. But my way of thinking was "Forget the slots! Use duct tape and a big hammer!" It is better that I don't design bridges or anything else.


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## Industry (Jan 11, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's a way to look at it. If you were stranded on an island, and since most of you are guys, we will consider it a default that you'd want a pretty woman with you, but besides that, would you want a mathamatician or a logger along?




Mathematician. 
Cause I'm definitely getting laid before math man does. Logger is just real competition. :biggrinbounce2:


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## MR4WD (Jan 11, 2009)

HolmenTree said:


> Logging, arborist work I would say is the most dangerous work . Crab fishermen were once called the most dangerous ,but now with more natural disasters more men are picking up the saw. I started felling trees for a large forestry company,union paid when I was 16 years old . I had a big passion for saws and in 1989 at 31 I was technical services manager at Stihl Canada. My boss Fred Whyte is now president of Stihl USA, my branch manager then Steve Meriam is now national sales and product development manager for Stihl USA. These guys pounded the pavement to get to where they are now, I really admire them for how far they have gone , but executive life style was not for me and said they can keep all their headaches. So I picked up the saw again and now at 50 I still love it and the young family I am raising. I don't think we have the worst job. If you have kids or grandchildren and can properly provide for them you GOT IT MADE.
> Willard.



Jobs like logging and fisherman are only dangerous, (I wouldn't classify being an arborist as dangerous, but then I'm not a mathematician either) because there's not enough money in the industries to mitigate against _all_ risks. 

I work in an industry that I would classify as more dangerous than logging or crab fishing, but fortunately for me being that it's not consumer driven in the same sense. Basicly, any hammerhead can grab a chainsaw and start cutting trees. Obviously, most won't have the intestinal fortitude to stick with the job and the dumb ones that do will probably get hurt. No offense meant to the professionals on this site at all but it is what it is.

Here's what I do:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z3q9WdjD5wc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z3q9WdjD5wc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6_NEAEGeFIw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6_NEAEGeFIw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

For what it's worth, I'd love to be a logger. I think it's a bit late in life to get into it for me though.


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## 74craig (Jan 12, 2009)

MR4WD those are some great video's!


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## HolmenTree (Jan 12, 2009)

Good videos MR4WD. A year or two ago Manitoba Hydro lost a chopper and crew in my neck of the woods ,they got a little too close to a tower.
Well since switching from logging to climbing arborist work, I have had to take alot of study and certification to help do my job as safe as I can. If your going to diassemble a tree with a chainsaw from top to bottom starting at a 100 feet up,you better have good knowledge of all the many species of trees. Plus the risk of the tree failing and having yourself landing into power lines etc., and your regular groundie doesn't show up for work that day and your life hinges around a greenhorn. And this is just a sample of hazards.

Willard


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## windthrown (Jan 12, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's a way to look at it. If you were stranded on an island, and since most of you are guys, we will consider it a default that you'd want a pretty woman with you, but besides that, would you want a mathamatician or a logger along? I'd go for the logger because whereas the math expert would probably be computing the odds of getting rescued, the logger would be scrounging around for stuff that was washed up to jury rig something that would aid in getting off the island. And he'd have some entertaining stories to tell.
> 
> There's a few guys I've run into who did go to college, got degrees and hated the office work and the urban living so much that they went back to logging.



My story is that I was an engineer. Then I was laid off and cast adrift. I found a beautiful woman and we fell in love. I moved onto her ranch which is like an island in a sea of green Doug firs. I became a part time logger there out of necessity. She was a software engineer. 

Anyway, the now-ex was and is a computer geek. She sits on the computer all the time. I would say, _it is flooding, we need to clear the culverts_. She would look at me like, do we have to!?  So I guess you are right. I should have found a logger babe to fall in love with. In that case, I would probably still be living with her. Of course, there are not that many logger babes around. :monkey:


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## Gologit (Jan 12, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Of course, there are not that many logger babes around. :monkey:



I know some. But they'd probably punch your lights out for calling them that.


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## Spotted Owl (Jan 12, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Of course, there are not that many logger babes around. :monkey:





I can think of a one off the top of my head. BUT I got her and I ain't sharin. Been around loggin and cuttin all her life, and will be so long as I can keep her around.

If your here this spring and hang around town long enough, I'm sure you will find one or two hangin around the local waterin hole. Coarse some type of goggles are said to aid in the search when your looking in the weeee hours of the mornin  


Owl


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## windthrown (Jan 13, 2009)

Gologit said:


> I know some. But they'd probably punch your lights out for calling them that.



LOL! 

But then, what is the proper term? Saw hotties? Wood babes? Sugar bushes? Tree honies? Ladies?


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## slowp (Jan 13, 2009)

windthrown said:


> LOL!
> 
> But then, what is the proper term? Saw hotties? Wood babes? Sugar bushes? Tree honies? Ladies?



I don't care. Just don't call them Ma'am. We were giggling about some male cleavage showing on a chubby carpenter yesterday. My bad.:monkey:


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## Bushler (Jan 13, 2009)

There's a lot of truth in what MR4wd says about the danger of crabbing/logging resulting from inadequate equipment, but also from poorly done regulations.

But, the overwhelming reason is because the product is so low value compared to the high cost of the necessary safety equipment that it wouldn't be feasible to make all logging and fishermen 'safe'.

We get by with we have, caulk boots and tin hats, or survival suits and epirbs, but why are we still fishing crab on a horserace schedule? The fierce comptetion for market share is what sends a lot of west coast dungeness fisherman to the bottom.

An individual quota system for permit owners would save crabbers lives. And an I.Q. test would certainly save some cutters.....


I've been lucky in both industries, scared and weathered, but still alive. And, to my personal credit, after 35 seasons running a boat, I have no lost time injuries or deaths, and no loss of boat.

If I had it to do all over again, I would. Its been a marvelous life, and one you'll never duplicate sitting in an office.


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## wilbilt (Jan 13, 2009)

Gologit said:


> I know some. But they'd probably punch your lights out for calling them that.



My oldest daughter is 19, stubborn and contrary. She finally brought the right guy around and got married last June the day after all the fires started. Son-in-law got a job with a logging outfit, trying to better his position. He's not afraid to work but is a bit clumsy, IMHO. I bought him some saw chaps for Christmas. I would like to have grandkids someday. Poor kid thought he would be driving truck, but they had him limbing with occasional skidder duty.

Anyway, they went out and cut some Christmas trees one day and brought one down to us. It needed a slight trim off the bottom, and imagine my surprise when the daughter grabbed a saw out of the back of the pickup and prepared to cut it. I offered to do it, but she said, "Just stand back, Dad". She started it with one pull and proceeded to make the cut.

She's pissed at me now, so I have been avoiding her lest I get my clock cleaned. :greenchainsaw:


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## hokiewheeler (Jan 13, 2009)

wilbilt said:


> She's pissed at me now, so I have been avoiding her lest I get my clock cleaned. :greenchainsaw:



You must've done something right old man. (Sorry couldn't resist). 
As for the people looking down their noses at the workin man, it happens. I went to college and got a 4 year degree. I remember people couldn't even change a burned out headlight. I used to mock them. Now they make twice what I do. At least they can afford to pay the mechanics who rape them, but they deserve it. I've worked both sides of the fence and I took a job with a county agency because I thought it would be more steady work. I'm now laid off and goin back to tree work after I talked to my old boss. I'm also an apprentice operator. I like doin work I can see the results. Those goofs can have the office. I don't care what anyone says. Till you've brought down a 72" maple in an urban backyard and fixed the yard back to perfect or hauled out a stuck excavator with a D8 dozer, you don't know what work is.


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## wilbilt (Jan 13, 2009)

hokiewheeler said:


> You must've done something right old man. (Sorry couldn't resist).



No offense taken. I have tried to raise my kids to appreciate the value of hard work and dedication. I have also stressed the value of having options.

Said daughter, at her young age, has a couple of years of college under her belt, ran the office at a body shop, (did some painting, too), is currently working as a pharmacist's assistant, and apparently has some saw experience as well.

She does have quite an attitude, but otherwise, I think I did OK.


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## ak4195 (Jan 13, 2009)

wilbilt said:


> No offense taken. I have tried to raise my kids to appreciate the value of hard work and dedication. I have also stressed the value of having options.
> .




Yep,life has a cruel way of throwing curve balls,best have a plan B &C.
You can get away with being the barn yard Rooster for quite a while if your good.But then one day you wake up and the world changed in a short period of time.
The last 10 years of my fishing carreer I averaged $96k/yr,for 4-6 months of the season.Never bothered thinking about another trade,why in the world should I?
For several reasons mostly of my own making,that train stopped,its been pretty darn hard to make anything approaching a decent living on the beach.Its taken me almost 8 yrs to remake myself and Ive scored a good spot in a union apprenticeship this spring.
Like anybody who works in the woods,Ill never forget my time working on the ocean,freedom,fresh air,excitement,the feeling of accomplishment,all that good stuff.
Good blue collar work tempers you like steell,least thats how I see it,enjoy your time in the woods but dont be a one trick pony is my advice.

ak4195


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## Gologit (Jan 13, 2009)

wilbilt said:


> My oldest daughter is 19, stubborn and contrary. She finally brought the right guy around and got married last June the day after all the fires started. Son-in-law got a job with a logging outfit, trying to better his position. He's not afraid to work but is a bit clumsy, IMHO. I bought him some saw chaps for Christmas. I would like to have grandkids someday. Poor kid thought he would be driving truck, but they had him limbing with occasional skidder duty.
> 
> Anyway, they went out and cut some Christmas trees one day and brought one down to us. It needed a slight trim off the bottom, and imagine my surprise when the daughter grabbed a saw out of the back of the pickup and prepared to cut it. I offered to do it, but she said, "Just stand back, Dad". She started it with one pull and proceeded to make the cut.
> 
> She's pissed at me now, so I have been avoiding her lest I get my clock cleaned. :greenchainsaw:



LOL...You're lucky your daughter didn't wind up working in the woods, too. After those fires there was plenty of work for everybody. We had loggers down here from Oregon and Washington. 

If you get a chance, go up to Scooter's on Jarbo Gap and follow Andy Mountain Road on out. In twenty miles, there were eight different logging 
outfits working on the burn salvage. And that didn't include five or six down on the Cohasset side. Everybody is down for the winter but it will start up again, on a more limited scale, next Spring.

If anybody had seen your girl running a saw they probably would have kidnapped her and put her to work.


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## wilbilt (Jan 14, 2009)

Gologit said:


> If you get a chance, go up to Scooter's on Jarbo Gap and follow Andy Mountain Road on out. In twenty miles, there were eight different logging
> outfits working on the burn salvage. And that didn't include five or six down on the Cohasset side. Everybody is down for the winter but it will start up again, on a more limited scale, next Spring.



My son in law was working for one of them up in that vicinity, but I'm not sure exactly where. He is hoping to go back in the Spring. I don't think he realized how seasonal the job would be.


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## HolmenTree (Jan 14, 2009)

windthrown said:


> LOL!
> 
> But then, what is the proper term? Saw hotties? Wood babes? Sugar bushes? Tree honies? Ladies?



All those phrases are what I call country star Shania Twain. Shania worked the landing for her step dad when she was a young girl in northern Ontario Canada. She was pretty good with the saw, limbing, topping and squaring up the butts was her trade. Was even said she felled many a tree also. 
And look where she is now. I heard one time up on stage at the Grand Ole Opry she put on a chainsaw speed cutting contest with 2 electric saws.


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## TreeFarmerC6 (Jan 22, 2009)

Iam a logger, i do the cutting/felling and the other guy operates the machine. there is only 2 of us but there is several other machines and people not far down the road.
I work on -20 days and i have to wear snowshoes for atleast half the day and carry my husqvarna/stihl chainsaw all day. i cut between 60 and 80 trees a day, delimbing and topping. Hangers the skidder operator deals with as its a waste of my time to try and get it down. Altho its not recommended to fell another tree onto a hanger, sometiems it just has to be done. We are cutting soft and hard maples, birtch and spruce if theres a load worth. 
Im the summer i work for a line clearing company and do tree removals from live or dead lines. roping is my main area as i dont climb or have the equipment, other people within the ranks do. I prefer logging but the markets arent there for us right now but we are managing. I hop back and forth between the two,
i own a newer stihl ms441 which in my opinion i dislike, and i have 2 newer husqvarna 365 specials all with 20in bars. when kept sharpe they are excellent saws. Iam purchasing a husky 385xp with heated handles asap. 
we have a tree farmer cd6e maxi skidder with 8 chokers and a finger on the blade. excellent machine and reliable. thats my story folks! keep those chains sharp


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