# Wondering if it would be wise to cut out baffle inside firebox?



## chads (Jun 2, 2013)

Last week someone gave me a wood burner and I happily took it home for the shop.
It was a insert type so I had to weld on a couple of legs on the back.






It has the vents on both sides and fins welded on to radiate heat.





After getting it home I decided to change the flue to go out the top.
And welded a plate to cover the 3"x 17" slot it had for the flue. It was a odd setup and hard to clean.
Previous owner had a chimney fire with it so that is basically why I got it.
I started to cut off the rear plate and decided that it would help radiate heat and keep heat away from the wall but I may cut it off any way if
I can borrow a torch. 
I will cut a hole in the top for the flue and weld on a flange but need to find a piece of 6" pipe first.

Upon further inspection there is a baffle about 3/8 to 7/16 thick in there that I figure is to help radiate the heat to the sides.
Here are a couple photos from the door in.













In this photo you can see the rusty plate I welded in.





I am thinking that the plate across the top of the firebox is made for radiating the heat to the sides to make it more efficient.
This does make the opening about 6"x16" or so going in with the wood. Kind of tight but it does drop about 6" below the bottom of the door opening to the firebrick floor.
I am thinking of cutting at least part of it out for easy loading but am wondering if that will be wise.
What you guys think?
Someone here has most likely had something like this in the past and no use reinventing to wheel.
Chad


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## YarraValleyDude (Jun 3, 2013)

That baffle plate is there to stop the top of the fire box from burning out and to stop the top of the heater from over heating.Ie glowing red hot.

If your gonna put a flue on top you'll need the baffle plate to stop all the heat and flames going up the flue too.

If you wanted to, you could lift the baffle plate up so you could get more wood in, you only need an inch or so of clearance between the baffle plate and the top of the heater for it to serve it purpose

The fins on the box serve two purposes, one to increase surface area for convection and two to prevent the sides buckeling from the heat.

Nice score BTW.

Rob


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## chads (Jun 3, 2013)

I think your right, I will try it for a while and see if it works pretty good.
If I need more clearance to get splits in there I will cut the shelf a few inches back near both sides of the door and bend it up some.
It could pretty much be there and be out of the way a little more.
Chad


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## Fyrebug (Jun 4, 2013)

I would be more concerned about your clearance to combustibles...

Maybe I hasn't occurred to you but, this firebox is unshielded and by code you should be 36" away from combustibles (I'll double check this) since it is an insert. You're awfully close to the wood paneling. 

No construction inspector or fire Marshall would ever approve of this installation.

It ain't a cheap stove if it ends up burning your garage/house and threathen your family and your life...

Just sayin...


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2013)

*Fire danger*

I know that I will probably get some flak for this but I am going to say it anyway. Check with your code enforcement officer and your insurance company as in most states it is illegal to run any solid fuel burning device inside a garage or building that houses any gasoline or flamable fuels as when the gas warms up the vapors vent to the shop creating an enviroment capable of causing an explosion. I know many people have a wood stove in their shops but let me just say that if your shop burns down and you did not get the OK in writing from your insurance company and your CEO then don't expect a check for damages. Be careful and Good luck


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## steved (Jun 4, 2013)

Looks like all the firebrick is missing.


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## FunnyFacePig (Jun 4, 2013)

*baffle*

I have a similarly designed Fisher mama bear and installed my own baffle to get more of a double burn affect. It now throws more heat and smokes less. I was told if the smoke travels in an S pattern it will give it more time for the double burn as well as stop some heat from being lost up the flue. If anything I would shorten the baffle but not eliminate it.


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## chads (Jun 4, 2013)

I am thinking this is a shielded hearth stove.
The back plate is about 3/16 thick and covers the entire back and is about 1" or so from the stove wall the gap looks to breathe pretty well. 
That is one of the reasons I plan to leave the back plate on.

I took photos of the upper portion of the firebox there is no fire brick up there.
The sides and bottom are good with exception of the back row.
I also am thinking of veneering the plywood wall with some 1/2" cement board and or veneer w bricks to help insulate the wood from heat.

This is my shop so I store the gas and the like in the shed or the garage. 
Chad


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## anlrolfe (Jun 5, 2013)

The baffle plate has an important part in the stove efficiency. Cut it out and you will burn much more wood for the same heat output. The lazy S or u-turn allows heat transfer instead of b-line up the flue. It also allows partially burned gasses to catalyze before turning to creosote in your chimney. If you want to really make this stove ROCK modify it with some "secondary air" tube in the fire box just below the baffle. The "secondary burn" will harvest more heat off the smoke than you'd imagine. Many of the newer design "clean burn" stoves use this technique. Some 1/2" black iron pipe & fittings. YouTube secondary air.


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## Greenland South (Jun 5, 2013)

Im likely to be roasted by some for this post, oh well.
I am a certified WETT Inspector (WOOD ENERGY TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER). As part of my home inspection business I see a lot of modified stoves. I can't and don't pass them. Stove manufactures go through vigerous testing procedures, done by certified testing labs. On the label of certified stoves they list clearances and installation requirements. There are also clearance and installation guidlines for uncertified stoves, these are usually in your local fire code. They do this so your home or workshop doesn't burn to the ground. Not a doom and gloom thing, just the facts. I urge you not to modify your stoves.


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## anlrolfe (Jun 5, 2013)

> They do this so your home or workshop doesn't burn to the ground



yup, yup, yes suree!

I got a new Jotul 602CB a couple years ago. Many see it as a "toy stove" or one for the hunting cabin or parlors. It gives me something to play with in the winter, which isn't much in Kentucky. One of the guys at work will hand me a box of pencils and say "that should last you the week". Gramp had a small cook stove that ate the same size wood. I fuss over it and get it running just right and when it burns blue, I just smile to myself thinking that my co-worker has his big catylitic stove choked down plugging the converter with crud. Based on efficiency curves from the old 602, if I run at about 3/4 throttle I'm far better efficiency than bigger stoves 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. My house is about 1800 SqFt built in 1926 and I can keep the furnace off most of the winter. I would advise anyone to buy the most efficient items, (AC, frig, furnace, car, saw) that they can afford.

make sure you have a good tile or stainless liner
make sure you burn seasoned, dried wood
clean and inspect flue often
a high efficiency stove will help reduce chimney soot(running in sweet spot)


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## chads (Jun 9, 2013)

I had a little free time today and got to work on the stove.
I soon felt kind of dumb, I found out that the smoke shelf was not fixed and needed pushed back in place.
When I looked at it at the pickup site it was on its side and the shelf must of slid forward and down closer to the door.
Janette gave me a piece of pipe and I was able to weld the flange on. THANKS JANETTE!
Cutting the hole was not too bad, I found some old welding rods 7016 I think and rather heavy most likely came with the welder when I bought it used 20 years ago.
I cranked it up to 225 and struck an arc after it heated up the metal it just fell out and it cut nearly like a torch.
After about 5 rods I was almost done I had a partial 6011 that I tried.
It worked better maybe since it was a thinner rod not sure.

I took a wire brush to it and got it ready for paint.
Another friend asked me to drop by and I gave him a call, he happened to be at the hardware and picked up some paint for me.
After dropping by his place I finished painting it up.
I took the eagle off during the process and it was tarnished. I wire wheeled it and the al looks pretty good now.










I just need some fire bricks for the inside and I am in business.
Chad


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## Cheesecutter (Jun 9, 2013)

Wow, nice work.


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## YarraValleyDude (Jun 9, 2013)

That looks really sharp.......Nice job!


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## anlrolfe (Jun 10, 2013)

Nice work changing her from back fireplace to top flue. I assumed that you pulled the shelf forward to take the pics. Did you put a steel blanking plate on the back flue opening. Avoid welding to the cast damper. You'll make 1-weld and 2-stress cracks. Too bad the rear panel doesn't come off you'll still need a shield near your wall. Dura-rock or corrugated tin on 2" standoffs w/ vents at bottom are standard recommendation. Any thoughts of hearth and damper?


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## Del_ (Jun 10, 2013)

Great job and a very nice looking stove.

It's a shame almost zero consideration is being given to the combustion process though.


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## chads (Jun 10, 2013)

I blanked off the rear outlet and the shelf is still in there.
I wonder about the combustion comment, As I still have the shelf in there. Enlighten me.

I plan to do something with the wall Some suggestions were made but a couple more ideas would be good.
Chad


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## chads (Jun 11, 2013)

I remember reading about putting a 3/4" black pipe in the back that vents to the outside.
Where should I point it to get a secondary burn?
Chad


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## anlrolfe (Jun 11, 2013)

Experiment:

Light a candle and let it burn for a bit. Blow it out. Hold a lighter 4" above the candle in the smoke coming off the wick. Strike the lighter and see what happens. See how high you can do this and relight the candle off the smoke.


Your wood stove is the same thing. Wood, as we think of it, doesn't burn(yet). In order to get most fuels to burn you have to get them hot enough to gassify. Many new clean burn stove will have more visible flame at the secondary air tubes than at the logs.


Advantages:

Cleaner Chimney.
Do you really like having to brush it out:msp_confused: You still will need to inspect and clean as necessary but you will run all the cleaner with newer stoves. Think of it this way, would you use SAE 30 ND oil for your 2-cycle mix?? You can and it was done for decades before modern oils came around. What do you think that would do to the innards of your engine? Think of that like your chimney. Any unburned gasses in to smoke condense as they cool leaving your chimney. Burning everything(even the smoke) leaves your chimney cleaner. Now if you want to take it up a notch, use a new stainless triple wall system or insulated stainless liner insert for old chimneys.​
More Efficient
More heat into the house and less up the chimney. In general, overnight burn times will be much longer per load(compared to similar size box). As I age I appreciate cutting less, splitting less and stacking/hauling less wood.​
Air Quality
I live in a metro area that has guidelines on smoke emissions. (1) POed neighbor and I could have Metro Gov up my caboose with climbing spikes.​

This video does a decent job of showing a high efficiency stoves opperation

[video=youtube;701ydLxZuMQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=701ydLxZuMQ[/video]

If you decide to stay with wood heat after a season consider upgrading to a newer design high efficiency stove. Just keep your eye on CL and sell "HER" on the notion of front glass and fire view.


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## anlrolfe (Jun 11, 2013)

Oh yeh, I grew up throwing cord wood into a KING calculator style stove. This was similar in design to ASHLEY or this "Wonder Wood"

Wonderwood Wood Burning Circulator | WoodlandDirect.com: Pellet Stoves, Wood Stoves & Inserts, Circulators, Furnaces

Dad had free labor(4-kids) and acreage of woodland. 

IMHO, most "EPA exempt" stoves do a better job heating the outside of your house and plugging your chimney. 

There are exceptions to this namely older JOTUL 602 & 118 which can run in the range of 65-75% eff when running 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. "Upland" was(defunct) an American company that licensed some designs from Jotul w/ US production of similar stoves.

The point is, get the most efficient stove you can afford and you won't regret it.


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