# The Biggest Modern (Diesel) Yarders/Towers Built



## AlaskanLogger

Seems to be all kinds of discussion here lately about big yarders since the Jay Browning skyline incident. Jay's yarder is a Skagit 739 and is medium as yarders go, not giant. There a many that are larger. Berger MARC VI- much larger. Skagit BU-199- much larger. Wahsington 217- much larger. Madill 052- Much larger. These are the bigger production machines, but lots of loggers built bigger custom machines, especially on the Olympic Peninsula. Berger and Washington made a few one-off machines (Washington 408- only 2 or 3 built, Berger Super-Snubber, one built) and etc. There were some huge yarders custom built around, and spooling 6,000 feet of 2" skyline was not that uncommon. In that world Browning's 739 is a toy. I'll post some pics and some brochures over the next couple of months of these machines. The 739 was a 'meduim sized' machine in the 1970's, as it only spools 2,000' of 1 1/2" skyline.

I was trying to post pics and brochures from the bigger machine,but all my files are to bigfor the site.


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## Humptulips

Looking forward to more posts on this.
I hooked on a 739 for four years and I swear it held 2400' of 1 1/2".
Did you ever hear of a big Madill built for Anderson Middleton out of Hoquiam?It was a tension skidder and I think it held 10,000' of 1 1/8" haulback. I think it was a one of a kind. I never worked on it but I remember their foreman spent a couple hours trying to convince my Dad to hook on it when I was a kid.


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## wvlogger

i think yarders are so cool i look forward to your pictures


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## Hddnis

I'm really looking forward to this thread developing.



Mr. HE


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## gwiley

AlaskanLogger said:


> I was trying to post pics and brochures from the bigger machine,but all my files are to bigfor the site.



Open the pictures in microsoft paint and choose the image menu, then click on stretch/skew. If you enter a number smaller than 100% it will scale the picture for you. To keep from clobbering your originals make a copy of them first in another folder BEFORE you resize them.


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## 2dogs

Who currently makes tower yarders? I know several companies make yoader/tong throwers but just curious if the big machines are still made, not just rebuilt.


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## MR4WD

I was recently on a job with a 110' ft tall Madill yarder. I can't remember the model, other than it had rubber tires (tandem tandem) and that it was pretty old and freshly completely rebuilt. Any ideas on which model?


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## Humptulips

MR4WD said:


> I was recently on a job with a 110' ft tall Madill yarder. I can't remember the model, other than it had rubber tires (tandem tandem) and that it was pretty old and freshly completely rebuilt. Any ideas on which model?



Pretty hard to say. Telescoping for sure so increases the chances it being a slackline but no way to tell for sure. Pretty old, It would have to be if 110'.
Rubber tires, that doesn't tell you anything. Undercarriages varied on the same model.


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## Humptulips

2dogs said:


> Who currently makes tower yarders? I know several companies make yoader/tong throwers but just curious if the big machines are still made, not just rebuilt.



Depends on whhat you call big machines. If you're talking 90' and over towers with over about 1 1/8 skyline I think the answer is nobody. You could get a 70' madill though.


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## flushcut

opcorn: I love logging tech. I just wanted to chime in so I could see the pics.


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## AlaskanLogger

Posing pics to this forum is far too difficult, one at a time is ridiculous, so go to heavyequipmentforums.com and check out my threads there- lots of Skagit, Madill, Berger, Washinton. All the big yarders. My username is Contract Logger, you'll need to look in the 'forestry equipment' thread. lots of pics and brochures over there fellas.............


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## flushcut

My heart palpitates just thinking about all the massive wood those things moved but is breaking at the same time to see them rotting away like that, it's like the last scene from "old yeller". Happy St. Pattys Day


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## STEVEGODSEYJR

AlaskanLogger said:


> Posing pics to this forum is far too difficult, one at a time is ridiculous, so go to heavyequipmentforums.com and check out my threads there- lots of Skagit, Madill, Berger, Washinton. All the big yarders. My username is Contract Logger, you'll need to look in the 'forestry equipment' thread. lots of pics and brochures over there fellas.............



DAMN!!!!!!:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop: Those are awesome!!!! I will definitely continue to keep checking on your pics that you keep posting!!!! Steve Awesome job AlaskanLogger!! Here's to you:yourock:


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## Hddnis

Yarders to me are some of the coolest machines around. They have a presence about them.




Mr. HE


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## GASoline71

There used to be 3 Skagit's sitting along HWY 20 between Hamilton and Concrete, East of Sedro-Wooley... I used to drive by them all the time going Steelhead fishing on the Skagit and Sauk rivers about 100 years ago.

I just drove up there about 2 months ago... they are gone. 

Gary


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## STEVEGODSEYJR

Hi Gary !  Steve


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## 2dogs

AlaskanLogger said:


> Posing pics to this forum is far too difficult, one at a time is ridiculous, so go to heavyequipmentforums.com and check out my threads there- lots of Skagit, Madill, Berger, Washinton. All the big yarders. My username is Contract Logger, you'll need to look in the 'forestry equipment' thread. lots of pics and brochures over there fellas.............



Dude you da man! Your pics are saving a huge chunk of logging history. Thanks for letting it slip who you are in real life. Your bio speaks volumes.


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## AlaskanLogger

2dogs said:


> Dude you da man! Your pics are saving a huge chunk of logging history. Thanks for letting it slip who you are in real life. Your bio speaks volumes.



Someone estimated (not at my request,lol) that i have somwhere near 20,000 printed photos- tower logging in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. If only I had a lifetime to scan them.............


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## Humptulips

Well, I stayed up quite late last night looking at your pictures and didn't begin to get to them all. Great photos that's for sure. Some of the stats on them showed me my memory to be faulty. I do question some of the numbers on the 199s. Just don't seem right to me. Also you said you thought all of the 199s were still around. I don't know about all of them but I'm sure one got cut up on the Clearwater. It was at Moes camp and had some pretty good sized alders growing up through the drums before it met it's end.
I may have a few to post over there that will interest you.


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## 2dogs

AlaskanLogger said:


> Someone estimated (not at my request,lol) that i have somwhere near 20,000 printed photos- tower logging in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. If only I had a lifetime to scan them.............



Prints or negatives can be digitized on put on a CD. I don't know how much that would cost you but it is an idea. Do you guys have a Costco anywhere nearby? Their photo dept is the cheapest I have found.


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## AlaskanLogger

Humptulips said:


> Well, I stayed up quite late last night looking at your pictures and didn't begin to get to them all. Great photos that's for sure. Some of the stats on them showed me my memory to be faulty. I do question some of the numbers on the 199s. Just don't seem right to me. Also you said you thought all of the 199s were still around. I don't know about all of them but I'm sure one got cut up on the Clearwater. It was at Moes camp and had some pretty good sized alders growing up through the drums before it met it's end.
> I may have a few to post over there that will interest you.



Post all you can!! the 2 Fred Moemachines got moved off the Clearwater and back to Centralia- one trailer mounted and one self-propelled- got alot of pics of those. I believe Mike Walch bought both and moved them to Auburn to turn into draglines. Also- there is one still sitting in St Helens Or in a rock pit (tower in the cradle). Last running machine i saw was an orange and white painted MacBlo machine- there is footage of that machine on youtube!

Anyway, will keep scanning and posting as time allows......


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## AlaskanLogger

On that other forum, look in the 'dozers' section for a thread titled 'this is for folks who hate dozers'. there are alot of Mt St Helens yarder pics in there. Or you can search all posts ny me maybe......I have posted alot.

PS- Humptulips- the Anderson-Middleton machine was a Madill 052- look in the Madill thread for pics of those machines...They were huge.


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## AlaskanLogger

Humptulips- you have any good pics of the Crane Creek operation out there?? I remember driving through there and yarders were all over the place. I am a moron and never took any pics of that show- hopefully you got some!:greenchainsaw:


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## MR4WD

It was Steve Malloch's machine, from Vancouver Island if that helps. We used it on Narrows inlet, just past skookumchuk narrows.


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## Humptulips

I'm like a lot of morons that didn't realize it would come to and end and didn't see anything worth taking a picture of. I guess I'm living to regret it. I don't really have many pictures and none from when I was young.
I worked at Crane Creek for a while too so no excuses. I worked on the last spar tree rigged at Crane Creek Camp.
My Dad was climber there and at Camp 14 before they moved camp. He has a couple pictures from Camp 3 before they ran out of timber but just of him climbing.

I saw that about the Madill 052. Went up and looked at it when it was in use and you would not believe the amount of splicing that went on with that setup. Had to be the hardest machine on lines ever. I'm not exagerating when I say they had a pile of strands, broken ends and worn out eyes that was 30' across and 15' deep. I think the thing turned out to be a white elephant and they never really used it as a tension skidder too much. Once when I was working for Don Bell they were working just down the road from us and they just used it as a high lead machine.


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## AlaskanLogger

Humptulips said:


> I'm like a lot of morons that didn't realize it would come to and end and didn't see anything worth taking a picture of. I guess I'm living to regret it. I don't really have many pictures and none from when I was young.
> I worked at Crane Creek for a while too so no excuses. I worked on the last spar tree rigged at Crane Creek Camp.
> My Dad was climber there and at Camp 14 before they moved camp. He has a couple pictures from Camp 3 before they ran out of timber but just of him climbing.
> 
> I saw that about the Madill 052. Went up and looked at it when it was in use and you would not believe the amount of splicing that went on with that setup. Had to be the hardest machine on lines ever. I'm not exagerating when I say they had a pile of strands, broken ends and worn out eyes that was 30' across and 15' deep. I think the thing turned out to be a white elephant and they never really used it as a tension skidder too much. Once when I was working for Don Bell they were working just down the road from us and they just used it as a high lead machine.



Well, it was a good idea on paper, lol. And made for one hell of a machine to stand next to. You mentioned Don Bell. I went to his closeout auction in 1988 or 89, and there was an 052 in that sale. I didnt realize what it was at the time- was this the same machine?? I did get some pics of it there, (took alot of pics that day), and ended up buying a nice 208 Washington that afternoon there for $8,500.00. About a week later a fellow from Darrington called and offered me $30K for it, and I told him he would have to pick it up in Hoquiam, as I hadnt even figured out where to move it. Ernie and Elmer Cook had purchased a big Don Bell lowbed setup there, so I was going to have them bring it as far as Chehalis with that. Fun times! Worked out good, cause I didnt need a 208 either, I just couldnt stand there with my hand in my pocket at those prices.


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## Humptulips

AlaskanLogger said:


> Well, it was a good idea on paper, lol. And made for one hell of a machine to stand next to. You mentioned Don Bell. I went to his closeout auction in 1988 or 89, and there was an 052 in that sale. I didnt realize what it was at the time- was this the same machine?? I did get some pics of it there, (took alot of pics that day), and ended up buying a nice 208 Washington that afternoon there for $8,500.00. About a week later a fellow from Darrington called and offered me $30K for it, and I told him he would have to pick it up in Hoquiam, as I hadnt even figured out where to move it. Ernie and Elmer Cook had purchased a big Don Bell lowbed setup there, so I was going to have them bring it as far as Chehalis with that. Fun times! Worked out good, cause I didnt need a 208 either, I just couldnt stand there with my hand in my pocket at those prices.



Yea, that was A&Ms 052. Funny thing about that. The guy that bought it (His name escapes me now. I must have alzeihmers.) ended up logging for A&M. They used it down on the Quinault Res, flatground and just highleaded.
The 208 belonged to Mayrs. Everyone was in a panic at the time. We pulled out in the middle of a FS sale to send the equipment to auction. I was hooking on the 739 at the time. Don still had a lot of FS wood under contract and ended up hiring contractors to log it. Dahlgren and Skycar logging from OR finished it. Sad times, we had a really good crew, all friends and good equipment. Hated to break up the bunch. 
I ended up hooking after that for Spradlin on a 046. Most dangerous machine I was ever around. I can't imagine why L&I never red tagged them things. Two guys killed on that one I worked on. Luckily not while I was there although we had plenty of close calls. I had moved on to a 99A before it happened.


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## AlaskanLogger

History is a funny thing. The guy that bought my 208 (well, it was mine for about a week anyway) took it to Darrington or Granite Falls or someplace and went broke fast. So then Mayr buys it back from HIS bank for like $12,500 and drug that thing clear back to the Harbor and went logging up Donkey Creek someplace with it. Last I saw it Mike Walch had it and part of it can be seen on the 'Ranier Skyline Excavator' thread on 'the other' website there under forestry equipment- you should check it out. Dont know how or when Mayr's got away from it the second time, but I was indirectly involved the 1st time, lol.

Like I said, history is a funny thing. The joke it seems is always on us.


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## Humptulips

Mayrs went into bankrucy in 85 and the logging equipment was sold but they kept the mill and ran it under bankrupcy protection. They got two sides back, both 208s the other was fished out of the river on the Cowlitz when a bridge collapsed under it. I worked with the son of the guy that rode it into the river. Anyway they logged until the mid nineties never getting out of bankrupcy protection and finally folded for good. Werner Mayr died a long time ago but Mars Mayr is still alive I guess. Haven't heard where he died.
I worked for Mayrs in 74. At the time they had an old Washington tracloader. I wish I had pictures of that. It supposedly was only the third one ever built. The house was huge on it. It was actually made of wood boards and had four paned windows in it just like a house.


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## joesawer

I appreciate you taking and posting all those pics.
I looked at them as much as I could stand at one time. It pains me severely to see it all in that condition.
I have been coming to the realization that I am becoming obsolete, and these pictures kind of tell the story.


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## slowp

I've posted this before. This was the first job for this yarder. PLS bought it and ran it through the Loggers Jubilee parade in Morton. I wish I had a picture of it going around the corner. They had to clear the sidewalk, and had a couple guys with poles to lift the utility lines so it could make the corner in the parade. It looked like they had waxed it. 

I'm not an expert like you guys. It was a big Thunderbird. I walked the boundary of this unit a few times--was a lot younger then. It was creepy to do after the fallers had left. I'd hear a log move and then a bunch would start rolling. I stayed well out of that unit. They did the downhill part first. 

Rumor had it that there were some old mine shafts in the area. There were coal deposits here and there.

There was a problem. The fallers had not bucked all the way through most of the logs, so the company insisted that a faller be on the landing (I heard it put a nastier way) to buck the logs on the landing. 

The road was steep. PLS hired independent truckers to haul on that road. I walked it in because my little two wheel drive blazer would spin out. They wouldn't give us 4 wheel drives then. The truckers would offer me rides but it looked too scary for me. 

I transferred away. The owl rules were on the horizon and it didn't look good for here. I did hear that one of the guys broke a hip while drilling into rock for a guyline anchor. The yarder was also vandalized. 

This was in the Mineral Block, north of Morton.







There was a bigger chunk of the unit below the yarder. It went across and up the other side of a creek. I've got another bad picture somewhere of that part. This was the first time I had ever seen a motorized carriage. 

Sorry for the quality. I didn't pack a camera around much then. I kick myself now.


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## floyd

They drove that self propelled yarder off the Clearwater to Centralia? Wow, bet that took awhile.

I have lots of pics in my head. Verbalizing rarely does them justice. I think at times taking the pic just may get in the way of getting er done.

Having said that, I sure appreciate folks taking the time to capture the images. I'm the only one that can see mine.


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## AlaskanLogger

floyd said:


> They drove that self propelled yarder off the Clearwater to Centralia? Wow, bet that took awhile.
> 
> I have lots of pics in my head. Verbalizing rarely does them justice. I think at times taking the pic just may get in the way of getting er done.
> 
> Having said that, I sure appreciate folks taking the time to capture the images. I'm the only one that can see mine.



Haha, no, they didnt. 

Pulled the tube, shipped that on a log truck, then pulled the hoist off, hauled that on lowbed 1, then pulled the steer tires off the carrier, put the gooseneck on the front, a 2-axle booster on the rear, and pulled that home with the third truck in the parade. Takes alot of work to move a rig that size. Heck, they used 2 John Deere 892 log loaders for the dis-assembly.


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## AlaskanLogger

slowp said:


> I've posted this before. This was the first job for this yarder. PLS bought it and ran it through the Loggers Jubilee parade in Morton. I wish I had a picture of it going around the corner. They had to clear the sidewalk, and had a couple guys with poles to lift the utility lines so it could make the corner in the parade. It looked like they had waxed it.
> 
> I'm not an expert like you guys. It was a big Thunderbird. I walked the boundary of this unit a few times--was a lot younger then. It was creepy to do after the fallers had left. I'd hear a log move and then a bunch would start rolling. I stayed well out of that unit. They did the downhill part first.
> 
> Rumor had it that there were some old mine shafts in the area. There were coal deposits here and there.
> 
> There was a problem. The fallers had not bucked all the way through most of the logs, so the company insisted that a faller be on the landing (I heard it put a nastier way) to buck the logs on the landing.
> 
> The road was steep. PLS hired independent truckers to haul on that road. I walked it in because my little two wheel drive blazer would spin out. They wouldn't give us 4 wheel drives then. The truckers would offer me rides but it looked too scary for me.
> 
> I transferred away. The owl rules were on the horizon and it didn't look good for here. I did hear that one of the guys broke a hip while drilling into rock for a guyline anchor. The yarder was also vandalized.
> 
> This was in the Mineral Block, north of Morton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a bigger chunk of the unit below the yarder. It went across and up the other side of a creek. I've got another bad picture somewhere of that part. This was the first time I had ever seen a motorized carriage.
> 
> Sorry for the quality. I didn't pack a camera around much then. I kick myself now.



I have a BUNCH of pics of that yarder- the earliest one is of it being pulled through the Loggers Jubilee parade when it was brand new (1988-ish?). The last one was taken at the PLS auction in Randle, must have been around 1998. I'll dig em' out when I get to Longview in a week or 3. After the auction the hoist was pulled off and sold, the tube/trailer was sitting off Hamilton Road there in Chehalis last I saw it. I'll post those pics at some point.


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## slowp

EXCELLENT! It was so shiny in the parade.


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## Dave Hadden

So I went to this link:

http://heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=16755

and was blown away by the variety of pics of machines I used to buy parts for as well as the guys I know in the industry who were mentioned in the two pages I read...so far.
I started in logging in 1969 when I became the Warehouseman for Tahsis Co. Ltd. at their Gold River Logging Division. I spent four years there and watched the evolution of yarding change from high lead to grapple yarding right before my eyes. When I started we ran six sides but soon bought a couple more yarders (Washington Skylok was one) and then we double-shifted four grapple yarding sides so we were essentially producing 12 sides worth of production by 1972 or so. The best one day production back then was 42 loads to the beach, most carried on P-16s or HDX's although we did have a few smaller Pacifics that ran 4640 Timkens and 1200x24 tires rather than 91000 Clarks and 1400x25 tires.
Lots of other machines there of interest but like most people I didn't take pics or think it would ever end. We had the first SST Skagit Grapple Yarder ever built, serial #1001 there (Side 6) as well as a Sparmatic, some Madills and a Washington Skylok Hydraulic Tension Yarder. We loaded with Americans mostly but had an old Bucyrus Erie 30-B too. Can't remember what else we had for yarders and loaders etc. 'cause it was a long time ago.
From there I went working for a small gyppo in Campbell River for a few months then went to Juskatla for MacMillan Bloedel as the Warehouse Supervisor there. Pretty standardized fleet there with mostly all 90' Madills and American loaders. P-16 log trucks as I recall.
From there I went to BCFP Ltd. at the Renfrew Logging Division as their Warehouseman/Buyer. I spent eight years there and it was much the same as most logging camps back then. They had a Skagit SST Grapple Yarder serial #10003 and I think Chum Carley from that area had serial #10002.
Those Skagits mostly ended up at Lemare Lake Logging in Port McNeill where they served a variety of functions for the Duke and his boys many years later.
I got caught in the squeeze of the '80's and was bumped off in 1984 from there and barely survived the next year before going to work for Dave Husby at Eden Lake in the Charlottes in 1986. He had six of those Mack CL350-ST logging trucks working as well as a couple of Pacifics and a Hayes.
MB at Menzies Bay had 13 of those Macks as I recall. There were only 26 ever made.
From there I went to work for Island Mack Truck Sales out of Nanaimo and opened a one man store at Sandspit in the Charlottes selling heavy duty truck parts and stuff to MB, Crown, Alliford Bay Logging, Frank Beban, (I was there when he died) and a few other small contractors there.
In 1990 we shut that store down (South Moresby Lyell Island etc.) and I moved to Campbell River where I still live.
I spent four years on the road for Island Mack all around the northern Vancouver Island area and knew many of the loggers/contractors during that time. Sold lots of parts to Butch Carrol, Dennis Dystant, Borer Trucking, MB Menzies, Canfor at Woss and others too.
When I have more time I'll look through more of your pics.

Thanks a lot for posting them. Brings back a lot of memories from the '60's right through to 2000 of my time in and around the industry.

By the way, I have exactly four more working days to go and I shall be retired.
I'll be 65 on May 3rd. and all my pensions start coming in in June.
Yahoo!!!


Take care.


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## AlaskanLogger

Mr Hadden: 

Thank you sir for all of your years in the industry. Some days its easy, some days we wonder what the hell we're doing, but boy what a ride over time, huh? You are the unsung hero of the West Coast Timber Industry. The high climbers and hooktenders seemed to get all the glory. Where would they have been without you guys? To me a seal looks like a seal, and a bearing looks like a bearing. Without competent people who know these differences there will be no logs going anyplace, and fast. 

You got in on the real action, check that, you helped the real action keep happening. You have seen some amazing things no doubt. Boy what I wouldnt give to see pics of those Skagit SST's! Not many of us here that know what a 'Sparmatic' or 'Veiwspar' is either........

I've posted maybe 2,000 pics in the various threads, and have 20,000 or so to go yet- scanning all the good old stuff will take time.

Enjoy your retirement, you've earned it no doubt. If you ever do an 'Alaska Cruise', PM me and let me know your coming- I'll buy you lunch!

Cheers from Alaska!


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## Dave Hadden

Thanks for the kind words and yes indeed, it’s been an interesting ride.
I’ve read a couple more pages into the thread I linked above and am blown away by your models.
Fabulous stuff indeed and they show a bit of talent to go along with the obsession too, to make a huge understatement. 
Also dug seeing the Erickson Aircrane pics.
When I worked for Husby at Eden Lake from September ’86 until May ’87 he had that Sikorsky S64-E flying wood and I got to see it in action a few times. One day I went over to what we called the West camp to salvage a bunch of XT3 Cat fittings and in the morning there was no wood along the road when I went in but in the afternoon when I came back out there were logs windrowed for a very long distance and I remember being blown away by how much wood had been moved in the past five hours or so.
Each rotor on that thing was 50’ long and it was 112’ across as I recall. The drive shaft was around a foot thick and the engines were de-tuned to 2400 HP. It had to land to refuel every certain number of minutes (42??) and had a safety release that wouldn’t allow it to lift more than 24,000 lbs . The Premier of BC then was Bill Vander Zalm and he visited when I was there and did a turn in that backwards facing seat they have while the machine flew logs. Most guys puke trying to ride there as it’s very disorienting but he came off it like a giddy school kid and claimed to have loved it.
Husby made a lot of money flying that thing in the Charlottes and when Silver Grizzly gave up their deal with Erickson Husby et al formed Canadian Aircrane and became the agent for Erickson in BC….or something similar. I’m just writing this stuff from memories which may not always be 100% accurate so forgive me my errors should you discern any.
Anyway, really a treat for me to see your pics and think back to those days. The ‘60’s and ‘70’s were heady times in the industry and I recall that we (BCFP) made the best profit ever in 1979, some 98 million net. That led to investments like purchasing ERT, joint investments with Domans and more investments at MacKenzie too.
Things changed in 1980 of course and within two years we were all bleeding and interest rates were ridiculously high. The ‘80’s saw the beginning of major changes in the industry here in BC both in the methodology of logging and in the type of wood being logged as second growth plantations started to be harvested without using fallers, yarders, landing buckers, chasers, chokermen, rigging slingers and hooktenders. Hydraulic machines took over from the older cable machines for the most part and feller buncher type machines aka processors were used in areas suitable for them. The number of jobs available in the industry continued to shrink and some smaller outfits worked claims where at the end they might be lucky to net a small profit but the glory days were gone for good.
As a Warehouseman/Buyer type guy I didn’t often get a chance to watch logging as I worked from my office attached to the warehouse and usually the shop too. I usually had a couple of mics near my desk as I answered all incoming radio traffic to the shop as well as all phone calls. One of the major assets I had when I started was I’d already done three years in the Canadian Navy as a Radio-Operator so had excellent communication skills, something that is important when dealing a lot on the radio or on the phone. I was also used to multi-tasking (no passengers on warships) used to responsibility, used to being organized and had a good enough brain on me that what I didn’t know I was able to learn quickly. I could type like a demon and had good hand writing skills too, a product of navy training.
Working that type of job was always interesting with rarely a dull moment as I basically bought, received, stored and then issued everything it took to operate a large modern logging camp circa 1969-2000 while keeping accurate accounting of what went where and when. Good reading skills and the ability to decipher exploded schematics helped a lot and one of my little finds one day was that the schematic for the brake system on a Galion grader was exactly the same as the schematic for the brake system on a Cat 14-G grader, both being basically identical. Except one had Cat part numbers and one had Galion part numbers. I made two phone calls, one to Finning for a quote on a list of brake parts using Cat part numbers and the other to BC Equipment (I think) who was the Galion dealer then. I gave them the same list with Galion numbers and asked for a quote.
To my surprise the quote from Finning was over a hundred bucks cheaper than BC Equipment. I photocopied the page from the Cat parts book and taped it in the Galion parts book and we bought all those parts from Finning when required.
But I digress and am out of time for now, so many thanks again for your efforts in cataloguing your pics and sharing them with us.
Much appreciated.

And I’ve been up your way a couple of times already, once in 1966 onboard HMCS Sussexvale, the frigate I served on and once back four years ago with my Mom and Stepfather, both now deceased. We were on one of the Holland-American ships, Volderdam maybe?? I forget.
Not likely I’ll ever get that way again but should you be coming through Campbell River sometime drop me a note and I’ll host you.

Take care.

Dave


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## coastalfaller

Dave Hadden said:


> Thanks for the kind words and yes indeed, it’s been an interesting ride.
> I’ve read a couple more pages into the thread I linked above and am blown away by your models.
> Fabulous stuff indeed and they show a bit of talent to go along with the obsession too, to make a huge understatement.
> Also dug seeing the Erickson Aircrane pics.
> When I worked for Husby at Eden Lake from September ’86 until May ’87 he had that Sikorsky S64-E flying wood and I got to see it in action a few times. One day I went over to what we called the West camp to salvage a bunch of XT3 Cat fittings and in the morning there was no wood along the road when I went in but in the afternoon when I came back out there were logs windrowed for a very long distance and I remember being blown away by how much wood had been moved in the past five hours or so.
> Each rotor on that thing was 50’ long and it was 112’ across as I recall. The drive shaft was around a foot thick and the engines were de-tuned to 2400 HP. It had to land to refuel every certain number of minutes (42??) and had a safety release that wouldn’t allow it to lift more than 24,000 lbs . The Premier of BC then was Bill Vander Zalm and he visited when I was there and did a turn in that backwards facing seat they have while the machine flew logs. Most guys puke trying to ride there as it’s very disorienting but he came off it like a giddy school kid and claimed to have loved it.
> Husby made a lot of money flying that thing in the Charlottes and when Silver Grizzly gave up their deal with Erickson Husby et al formed Canadian Aircrane and became the agent for Erickson in BC….or something similar. I’m just writing this stuff from memories which may not always be 100% accurate so forgive me my errors should you discern any.
> Anyway, really a treat for me to see your pics and think back to those days. The ‘60’s and ‘70’s were heady times in the industry and I recall that we (BCFP) made the best profit ever in 1979, some 98 million net. That led to investments like purchasing ERT, joint investments with Domans and more investments at MacKenzie too.
> Things changed in 1980 of course and within two years we were all bleeding and interest rates were ridiculously high. The ‘80’s saw the beginning of major changes in the industry here in BC both in the methodology of logging and in the type of wood being logged as second growth plantations started to be harvested without using fallers, yarders, landing buckers, chasers, chokermen, rigging slingers and hooktenders. Hydraulic machines took over from the older cable machines for the most part and feller buncher type machines aka processors were used in areas suitable for them. The number of jobs available in the industry continued to shrink and some smaller outfits worked claims where at the end they might be lucky to net a small profit but the glory days were gone for good.
> As a Warehouseman/Buyer type guy I didn’t often get a chance to watch logging as I worked from my office attached to the warehouse and usually the shop too. I usually had a couple of mics near my desk as I answered all incoming radio traffic to the shop as well as all phone calls. One of the major assets I had when I started was I’d already done three years in the Canadian Navy as a Radio-Operator so had excellent communication skills, something that is important when dealing a lot on the radio or on the phone. I was also used to multi-tasking (no passengers on warships) used to responsibility, used to being organized and had a good enough brain on me that what I didn’t know I was able to learn quickly. I could type like a demon and had good hand writing skills too, a product of navy training.
> Working that type of job was always interesting with rarely a dull moment as I basically bought, received, stored and then issued everything it took to operate a large modern logging camp circa 1969-2000 while keeping accurate accounting of what went where and when. Good reading skills and the ability to decipher exploded schematics helped a lot and one of my little finds one day was that the schematic for the brake system on a Galion grader was exactly the same as the schematic for the brake system on a Cat 14-G grader, both being basically identical. Except one had Cat part numbers and one had Galion part numbers. I made two phone calls, one to Finning for a quote on a list of brake parts using Cat part numbers and the other to BC Equipment (I think) who was the Galion dealer then. I gave them the same list with Galion numbers and asked for a quote.
> To my surprise the quote from Finning was over a hundred bucks cheaper than BC Equipment. I photocopied the page from the Cat parts book and taped it in the Galion parts book and we bought all those parts from Finning when required.
> But I digress and am out of time for now, so many thanks again for your efforts in cataloguing your pics and sharing them with us.
> Much appreciated.
> 
> And I’ve been up your way a couple of times already, once in 1966 onboard HMCS Sussexvale, the frigate I served on and once back four years ago with my Mom and Stepfather, both now deceased. We were on one of the Holland-American ships, Volderdam maybe?? I forget.
> Not likely I’ll ever get that way again but should you be coming through Campbell River sometime drop me a note and I’ll host you.
> 
> Take care.
> 
> Dave



Excellent read, Dave, very well spoken! Husby is still one of the best outfits on the Coast. I love hearing about the good old days!


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## torkel

*Huge slackline yarders*

Dahlgren logging out of Forks, Wa., sends some cat's with their Berger Mark IV over the canyon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJzMNPvFu-8&feature=related


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## flushcut

torkel said:


> Dahlgren logging out of Forks, Wa., sends some cat's with their Berger Mark IV over the canyon...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJzMNPvFu-8&feature=related


 Now that's crazy powerful :jawdrop:


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## garyischofield

*questions for Mr.Hadden*

As a East coast woods contractor ,I'm in awe of the challenges involved with High lead(?) logging.The steepness of the terrain,road building,bridges,coordinating the trucking with production,etc.I'm curious about the bd.footage/weight of some loads hauled by the Hayes and 350 Mack trucks.The record 42 loads hauled in one day, would be how much footage and hauled how far?As a young pup, I ran a Mack 10 wheel rock dump which weighed 50 tons empty.It had a V12 1710 cubic inch Cummins with a 4X2 tranny.That truck was akin to the trucks some of your employers were using to haul logs.The Macks had what kind of power E9 macks or K series Cummins?I'm under the assumption that engines brakes were a must ,hydraulic retarders as well?Power shift trasmissions?Your posts are much appreciated.I'm hopeful you will continue to post your woods experiences.Gary-


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## wvlogger

heres some hayes trucks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxTJ9NaVnxc


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## AUSSIE1

I used to drive a processor (harvester) and forwarder for a Madill and a Thunderbird. As much as it was fun to watch I never did get into the yarder side of things.
Trees were felled by a Valmet (Timco) buncher.
After harvesting your own trees it was repetitious under a yarder.
Didn't mind forwarding for a yarder as it kept you on your toes. 

Excellent pics over at the other forum Alaskanlogger BTW.


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## Dave Hadden

Gary wrote:

"As a East coast woods contractor ,I'm in awe of the challenges involved with High lead(?) logging.The steepness of the terrain,road building,bridges,coordinating the trucking with production,etc.I'm curious about the bd.footage/weight of some loads hauled by the Hayes and 350 Mack trucks.The record 42 loads hauled in one day, would be how much footage and hauled how far?As a young pup, I ran a Mack 10 wheel rock dump which weighed 50 tons empty.It had a V12 1710 cubic inch Cummins with a 4X2 tranny.That truck was akin to the trucks some of your employers were using to haul logs.The Macks had what kind of power E9 macks or K series Cummins?I'm under the assumption that engines brakes were a must ,hydraulic retarders as well?Power shift trasmissions?Your posts are much appreciated.I'm hopeful you will continue to post your woods experiences.Gary-"


I’ll answer what I can for you.
The P-16 Pacifics, HDX Hayes and the CL-350 Macks were all capable of hauling 100 ton loads or better. We weighed every load that came off at the dump at Gold River and they ranged between 80 and 100 tons mostly. I have no idea how many board feet that would be and the measurement units here changed over the years from “cunits” to “cubic metres” as the measurement system changed to metric. The CL-350 Macks probably carried slightly bigger loads on average than the Pacifics and Hayes did as the Mack planetary system was the equivalent of a 121 000 lb Clark and most Pacifics and Hayes trucks ran 90,000 or 91,000 lb Clark set-ups so couldn’t carry quite as much.
The 42 load day was achieved because we had a lot of short hauls, probably averaging no more than 20 miles or so and the new General Foreman at the time wanted to make a mark so they highballed everything that day and waved through a couple of loads that normally would have over-nighted at camp. He looked good but it wasn’t a sustainable rate given the distance we hauled lots of times so it wasn’t achieved again during my time there.
The majority of trucks I saw used 12V-71 Jimmies (aka Green leakers) with blowers and some with twin turbos. Some had big Cummins engines, a few used Cats or something else but the majority used Jimmy power in my experience.
Most used Allison automatics and all pretty well used Jake brakes and an air brake system for truck and trailer brakes. Trailer axles were mostly Kay-Bruner 90 ton jobs with 2009-B brake drums and 4350-D brake lining. The Clarks used 2021-B drums and 4630-D lining, non asbestos of course after about 1980 or so.
With 1400x25 tires all around 100 tons was easily carried off some pretty rugged hillsides along our coast over the years. I saw some huge loads on Husby’s Macks back in the 80’s too.
Funny, I was talking to a guy the other day about logging in the 60’s and 70’s versus today and one of the things that stood out for me was that I never ever saw a load of second growth wood in those days. We logged nothing but first growth back then.
Logging tons of second growth today of course so I see loads nowadays that almost make you laugh at the small timber being harvested.
Ah well, times change.
Some others on here will be able to give better technical information on various engines used on logging trucks I think. I’m certainly not the best guy to ask, that’s for sure.

Take care.


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## garyischofield

*trucks*

Thanks Dave,After reading your posts and watching a couple videos on youtube,I'm still in awe at the conditions you overcame continually.The video "Hayes truck steep hill 'is too much.I guess when the norm is what you've always known,it's another day at work.Used to marvel at some of the wood operators while snowmobiling in Northern Maine/New Hampshire about the chest deep snow and very rocky steep terrain.It's all what your used to I guess. Water cooled brake drums?Never seen any steam in the videos on yutu.Thanks again.Gary


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## RPM

Dave Hadden said:


> Some others on here will be able to give better technical information on various engines used on logging trucks I think. I’m certainly not the best guy to ask, that’s for sure.
> 
> Take care.



I wouldn't say that Dave ... from a BC west coast perspective and maybe others from Alaska and the PNW that know the equipment you are talking about .. you've been there through the good and bad at least in this province. I consider you an authority in this area!


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## Dave Hadden

Really don't want to hijack the thread by switching to trucks but for Gary I'll add a bit more about them.
Yes, we used water to cool the brake drums. Controlled by the driver via a hand-valve in the cab he'd use water when required. The water tank was usually right behind the cab.
Also, there were different gear ratios used on the Clark diffs we used with the most common being 13.298 to 1 and 15.033 to 1. Some guys ran 12 to 1 but most outfits preferred a mix of 13.298 and 15.033 as you could easily switch from one to another whereas with the 12 to 1 you had different case halves and were stuck with a compatible diff being required if you blew one.
Main drivelines were usually 1800 or 1810 series and the interaxles were 1710 series. Most outfits also preferred to use mostly front diffs as they could go either front or rear whereas a rear could only go in the rear position. You basically got two for the price of one if you kept fronts for spares.
When ordering the proper input or output slip joints for the axle set-up you had to know if it was for the front of the front, the rear of the front or the front of the rear as they were all different. The most common u-joints were 5-124X and 5-280X, the first for the 1810 drivelines and the second for the 1710 interaxle drivelines.
This applied mostly to the Pacifics and Hayes trucks as the Macks had their own set-up made by Mack.
Also, if you switced to twin turbos on a 12V-71 you had to change all the exhaust to 5" from 4" or there was too much back-pressure on the engine and any warrantly would be voided.
Geeze, I should never start these rememberances as I always think of stories related to what I type.
Don't have time right now but perhaps later I'll give a first person story on the problems with a 12 to 1 diff set-up and also the switch in exhaust sizes and when it didn't happen and why.
Right now I've gotta go look after my wife as she's recovering from an operation she had a few days back so I'm her manservant for the time being.
In the meantime....


Take care.


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## [email protected]

Dave,

Great posts, thanks. I've always been quite interested in the glory days of logging and the old Pacifics and Hayes. Would have liked to have had any experience with them.

Just got back for a minute or two AlaskanLogger. Wow. Thanks for the pictures in the Vancouver thread. A guy could kill a few days looking at those pictures.


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## catbuster

Humptulips said:


> Depends on whhat you call big machines. If you're talking 90' and over towers with over about 1 1/8 skyline I think the answer is nobody. You could get a 70' madill though.



The guys who bought madill would probly build you a tower rig if you asked, so I've heard,and Diamond S makes yarders.


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## Hallback

slowp said:


> I've posted this before. This was the first job for this yarder. PLS bought it and ran it through the Loggers Jubilee parade in Morton. I wish I had a picture of it going around the corner. They had to clear the sidewalk, and had a couple guys with poles to lift the utility lines so it could make the corner in the parade. It looked like they had waxed it.
> 
> I'm not an expert like you guys. It was a big Thunderbird. I walked the boundary of this unit a few times--was a lot younger then. It was creepy to do after the fallers had left. I'd hear a log move and then a bunch would start rolling. I stayed well out of that unit. They did the downhill part first.
> 
> Rumor had it that there were some old mine shafts in the area. There were coal deposits here and there.
> 
> There was a problem. The fallers had not bucked all the way through most of the logs, so the company insisted that a faller be on the landing (I heard it put a nastier way) to buck the logs on the landing.
> 
> The road was steep. PLS hired independent truckers to haul on that road. I walked it in because my little two wheel drive blazer would spin out. They wouldn't give us 4 wheel drives then. The truckers would offer me rides but it looked too scary for me.
> 
> I transferred away. The owl rules were on the horizon and it didn't look good for here. I did hear that one of the guys broke a hip while drilling into rock for a guyline anchor. The yarder was also vandalized.
> 
> This was in the Mineral Block, north of Morton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a bigger chunk of the unit below the yarder. It went across and up the other side of a creek. I've got another bad picture somewhere of that part. This was the first time I had ever seen a motorized carriage.
> 
> Sorry for the quality. I didn't pack a camera around much then. I kick myself now.


Photo isn't showing.


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## northmanlogging

Hallback said:


> Photo isn't showing.


its a 10 year old thread, been more then a couple of hacks and updates since then, lots of stuff has gone missing.


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## woodsplitta

Shucks, I enjoyed the read, thanks for resurrecting it.


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