# PILTZ: Master HOT SAW builder (...not)



## windthrown (Mar 1, 2015)

Yah, that guy PILTZ has been busy on Ebay again. If you do not know who he is, he sells 40-60cc size Stihl "HOT" saws with really long low profile Canon bars on them with Stihl Picco PS loops. Like, MS180 saws with 28 inch bars and 8 pin rims. No other mods, just the long bars, big rims and loops. I mean, I like long PNW bars and all, but this guy is ridiculous. All he talks about is chain speed and has nothing to say about torque. Sad that, as power = torque x revs. He seems to think that power is all from chain speed alone and swears by it. In my world of engineering, longer bars require smaller rim drives for more torque and less speed. Otherwise the torque drops to a level that the chain and cutting resistance will just bog the saw. Apparently that does not happen in PILTZ land where the laws of physics do not apply. He advocates larger rims on longer bars. Say what? Never mind not needing an oil pump upgrade to keep those long bars wet, or that Picco bars are pretty thin and that length and thinness will create some real problems cutting in big wood. Hell, even my 026 with a 16 inch Picco B&C is pretty flexible. I also run that with a 7 pin rim at most.

Anyway, now he is writing 'expert' pearls of wisdom like, "Our favorite saw is the MS880 with 3/8 X 9 tooth sprocket on a 42 inch bar, we have 1000s of hours on that setup." or, "Big saws and short bars (Very Dangerous)", and We consider anything under 32 inches a short bar & anything under 24 very short. The guy is a complete douchebag, and I would love to see him come on this site and post this crap and get trashed, so of course he never will. Keep in mind that its fiction at best...

http://www.ebay.com/gds/A-word-abou...gs-and-Chisel-Chain-/10000000177885639/g.html


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## Deets066 (Mar 1, 2015)

I've bought a roll of chain from him and a few other little things with no problems but as stated, his hot saws are a joke!


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## windthrown (Mar 1, 2015)

Oh, and a word from him about us arborists:

We get plenty of (experts) coming to our EBay store thinking they know something because they are an arborist and they insist on telling us how stupid we are, let me explain something; A good timber feller can fell more trees in a week then an arborist falls in a year. It takes an average timber feller 2 years to become proficient, (not an expert but proficient), an arborist will never gain that much chainsaw experience in 2 lifetimes.


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## windthrown (Mar 1, 2015)

His videos show that he is about as proficient at falling as a 3 year old.


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Mar 1, 2015)

you got some history with this guy or what?


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## windthrown (Mar 1, 2015)

STIHLTHEDEERE said:


> you got some history with this guy or what?



No, he just gets more insane and more full of BS every time I see more of his stuff posted on Ebay. Some more outrageous pearls from Piltz:

*Full chisel chain always cuts faster and last longer in every application period!!!

ALL outboard clutch saws should be considered obsolete antiques, don't make me say it twice.*

_*You can't properly fell trees without big dogs*_
*
any saw CAN run any saw chain... ... any chain can be made to fit any saw... ...any saw can run any length bar 

If the town you live in has a huge puke saw dealer you may want to consider buying puke saws

*


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## Big_Wood (Mar 1, 2015)

bottom line is chain speed cuts wood  whether a saw has the torque to maintain a decent chain speed is another story.


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## Marshy (Mar 1, 2015)

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors...


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## Franny K (Mar 1, 2015)

"We started selling chain saw products because we are painfully aware of how uneducated the general participant in this industry is, yes that includes the manufactures"

"*Saw chain is not proprietary to any make or model of saw*, that means any saw CAN run any saw chain. Regardless of whether it may or may not be advisable to do so  any chain can be made to fit any saw."

This quote here we sees the uneducated manufacturers specify max lengths for their chains that this business advises exceeding. Not going to bother with the displacement ratings on the chain at this point.


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## Deets066 (Mar 1, 2015)

Yeah you can put any chain on any saw, but it's like running .404 on a top handle saw and callin it a "hot saw"


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 1, 2015)

Well dropping a whole tree does take less time than piecing one out sooo.....yeah in theory a logger will put more wood on the ground in less time. The rest of that is just BS.


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## windthrown (Mar 1, 2015)

Oh hey, on his 090 post (he has one up for $2,575 PHO) he says that the 090G is a useless turd of a saw:

For those who own or are thinking about buying an 090G Listen up good, those saws were made to run 1/2 pitch chain on 6 foot bars, the chain would weigh 4 pounds by itself and they needed a gear reduction to pull that chain thus the 090G was invented. IT IS USELESS for anything but a paper weight, it's clutch CAN'T be updated to make it useful. Don't buy an 090G for anything but parts for a regular 090 you have been warned!


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## MustangMike (Mar 2, 2015)

Don't let him get your Blood Pressure up Scott, but thanks for the public service notice!


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 2, 2015)

You are probably just jealous, Scott, because Mr. Piltz is extra cool. Look at him, he just look like a ninja with his naked feet and posture 

He's obviously a great specialist! (or not...)


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 2, 2015)

I bet his wife thinks he's quite studley. Lol
Mr. Turdliness is trying to corner the shelf queen market.


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

I do not have high blood pressure. Nor does Mr. Piltz really bother me any more. Its just that every time I log into Ebay and look at his stuff, the statements are longer than ever before and even more full of BS. It seems that he thinks that the more BS he posts, the more real it will become. As for posing shoeless with saws stuck into my deck, meh... I was into Aikido for about 4 years when I was younger. I am into guns for self defense now.

Here is some more insane crap he has for sale. He has these posted for a MS170/180 chainsaw (stab stab!). I cannot imagine a plastic engine case dealing with that kind of leverage. Imagine the torque from a long bar on a 170 with these PILTZ dawgs... snap!


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## Pud (Mar 2, 2015)

They are good quotes , i am an arborist and the timber fallers i know drop more trees by lunchtime then i would in a year , obsessed with long bars and doesnt like gear drives


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## wde_1978 (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Here is some more insane crap he has for sale. He has these posted for a MS170/180 chainsaw (stab stab!). I cannot imagine a plastic engine case dealing with that kind of leverage. Imagine the torque from a long bar on a 170 with these PILTZ dawgs... snap!
> 
> View attachment 408160



Counterweight to re-balance the long bar?


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## pioneerguy600 (Mar 2, 2015)

His saws are all show, no go! He`s selling to a different crowd. the new owners will have bragging rights only ,among their kin!


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## Matt81 (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Oh, and a word from him about us arborists:
> 
> We get plenty of (experts) coming to our EBay store thinking they know something because they are an arborist and they insist on telling us how stupid we are, let me explain something; A good timber feller can fell more trees in a week then an arborist falls in a year. It takes an average timber feller 2 years to become proficient, (not an expert but proficient), an arborist will never gain that much chainsaw experience in 2 lifetimes.



Wow that is such a stupid statement that it is almost comical. No arguments here that a pro faller will get more timber on the ground quicker. It's a no brainer. They are cutting where the trees are selected for size and quality usually far away from peoples houses and properties, while an arborist is stuck removing trees usually with defects or damage that are over houses, gardens and other items of value. We don't do many detailing and light pruning jobs at the moment, we are day in day out doing tricky removals that many other less experienced tree companies would not touch. Sure we are not getting a 100' tree on the ground in a matter of minutes but in terms of "chainsaw experience" we need to be able to perfectly judge which type of cuts to use in order to safely avoid expensive obstacles such as houses and the like. Our clients are very happy with our work and the reputation of our company would be rubbish if we were damaging peoples properties regularly due to not having the required "chainsaw experience". I would like to think that my boss and our companies workers and most of the arborists i know around our area are up there with the best. 

Maybe he will wake up and realise that the reason so many people who work daily with saws are telling him how stupid he is, is because there is some truth there! I said maybe, as i don't hold much hope as he has been pulling this crap for quite a while now.


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## jughead500 (Mar 2, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors...


And magic piltz dust.


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## Matt81 (Mar 2, 2015)

"*Saw chain is not proprietary to any make or model of saw*, that means any saw CAN run any saw chain. Regardless of whether it may or may not be advisable to do so  any chain can be made to fit any saw."

And here i was thinking that the manufactures like Stihl and Husky recommended maximum bar lengths for a reason. That reason being mainly the saws construction, power and torque and oiling capacity.
Now i see the light now stupid of me.  

Always been interested to try out 404 chain with a 20" bar on my T540XP. It would make it much easier to reach some of those cuts that a 14" just cant manage.


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## Matt81 (Mar 2, 2015)

jughead500 said:


> And magic piltz dust.



Dust is the right word. Those saws of his sure wont be throwing many chips.


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## jughead500 (Mar 2, 2015)

I do like those dawgs on my ms360.they do help with stumping BUT. They have them so sharp that you do have to watch.they are on the verge of being dangerous.i really need to dull them down with a file.
As far as the big dawgs on a 170-250 with a big bar it won't work for long.hell i put a bigger carb and muffler modded my little 170 the other day and it stripped out the oiler gear. of course its an old saw and the gear was getting old.


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## old-cat (Mar 2, 2015)

PILTZ the magik man, all you all are just JEALOUS!!


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## redtractor (Mar 2, 2015)

"*Saw chain is not proprietary to any make or model of saw*, that means any saw CAN run any saw chain. Regardless of whether it may or may not be advisable to do so any chain can be made to fit any saw."

Had a guy ask me if I could get ripping chain as he wanted to try milling with his 40cc plastic Poulan. I burst his bubble in a gentle manner.


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## rd35 (Mar 2, 2015)

It's kind of sad really. I would not be able to sleep at night knowing that I had sold products by mis-representing them. I've always thought it would be cool to put a fifth wheel unit on the back seat of a Harley so you could pull a gooseneck trailer with your motorcycle. Only mod needed is a smaller rear sprocket and a larger rear tire so it is able to go faster!!!


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 2, 2015)

He is doing the same thing as the guy selling a 6 cylinder Dodge Charger or a Fart Can resonater muffler for a ford focus. He is helping people pretend they are big bad serious wood cutters. Havent you seen some hunter sporting a 30-30 with a 20x turrent adjustable scope same thing really. Spoilers on the back of Dodge Neon the list goes on. These sort of people are weekend worriors and will never be anything more. My own bil uses a camo foot long rambo knife for a hunting knife, i dont think he has ever shot a deer in his life. Some / many people search out stuff like this so they can be the cool guy in the neighborhood . There will always be some simple people that look up to them, and you will NEVER change thier mind.


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## nk14zp (Mar 2, 2015)

Franny K said:


> "We started selling chain saw products because we are painfully aware of how uneducated the general participant in this industry is, yes that includes the manufactures"
> 
> "*Saw chain is not proprietary to any make or model of saw*, that means any saw CAN run any saw chain. Regardless of whether it may or may not be advisable to do so  any chain can be made to fit any saw."
> 
> This quote here we sees the uneducated manufacturers specify max lengths for their chains that this business advises exceeding. Not going to bother with the displacement ratings on the chain at this point.


Wonder if I can get some .404 and a 32" bar for my squeel killer?


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 2, 2015)

Jeff Lary said:


> Havent you seen some hunter sporting a 30-30 with a 20x turrent adjustable scope same thing really. Spoilers on the back of Dodge Neon the list goes on. These sort of people are weekend worriors and will never be anything more. My own bil uses a camo foot long rambo knife for a hunting knife, i dont think he has ever shot a deer in his life. Some / many people search out stuff like this so they can be the cool guy in the neighborhood . There will always be some simple people that look up to them, and you will NEVER change thier mind.


Lots of those here on AS.[emoji1]


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## SawTroll (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> .....
> 
> Anyway, now he is writing 'expert' pearls of wisdom like, "Our favorite saw is the MS880 with 3/8 X 9 tooth sprocket on a 42 inch bar, we have 1000s of hours on that setup." or, "Big saws and short bars (Very Dangerous)", and We consider anything under 32 inches a short bar & anything under 24 very short. The guy is a complete douchebag, and I would love to see him come on this site and post this crap and get trashed, so of course he never will. Keep in mind that its fiction at best...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/A-word-abou...gs-and-Chisel-Chain-/10000000177885639/g.html


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## SawTroll (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Oh, and a word from him about us arborists:
> 
> We get plenty of (experts) coming to our EBay store thinking they know something because they are an arborist and they insist on telling us how stupid we are, let me explain something; A good timber feller can fell more trees in a week then an arborist falls in a year. It takes an average timber feller 2 years to become proficient, (not an expert but proficient), an arborist will never gain that much chainsaw experience in 2 lifetimes.




 A really "funny" dude!


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 2, 2015)

kenJax Tree said:


> Lots of those here on AS.[emoji1]



Ain't that the truth! "Chainsaw polishers"


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## lone wolf (Mar 2, 2015)

Jeff Lary said:


> He is doing the same thing as the guy selling a 6 cylinder Dodge Charger or a Fart Can resonater muffler for a ford focus. He is helping people pretend they are big bad serious wood cutters. Havent you seen some hunter sporting a 30-30 with a 20x turrent adjustable scope same thing really. Spoilers on the back of Dodge Neon the list goes on. These sort of people are weekend worriors and will never be anything more. My own bil uses a camo foot long rambo knife for a hunting knife, i dont think he has ever shot a deer in his life. Some / many people search out stuff like this so they can be the cool guy in the neighborhood . There will always be some simple people that look up to them, and you will NEVER change thier mind.


Well on a positive note it does make the posers stand out and are readily spotted so you know what you are dealing with.


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Mar 2, 2015)

old-cat said:


> PILTZ the magik man all you all are just JEALOUS!!


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 2, 2015)

I thought the Piltzmeister had something there with the larger sprockets, so put a bigger 36 pin on my 346.
I hope it makes the trees piss their roots. I just need the bigger dawgs.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 2, 2015)

Stephen C. said:


> you should have told him to give Piltz a call....fix him right up! Have him report back the results. Piltz is smart we are dumb but we can learn. Would love to know how it would have worked out.


Would that be proprietary?


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 2, 2015)

The bar is awesome


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 2, 2015)

It means he is the proprietor of his ideas and therefore takes ownership of them. Proprietary is a derivative of the word property. Piltz is the proprietor of proprietary power saws.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 2, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> The bar is awesome


Maybe Piltz can buck the slivers out of his feet with the Cannon. Lol


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 2, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Maybe Piltz can buck the slivers out of his feet with the Cannon. Lol





The poor guy wil probably read all we say about him, if you search "Piltz saw" on google, the first link is an old topic about him on AS.


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## Moparmyway (Mar 2, 2015)

Stephen C. said:


> no need for an oil pump upgrade, a chain stalled in the wood don't need no lube
> what an idiot. Does he actually sell stuff? People buy it?


He is only cutting real fresh softwoods in his videos, heck, I can turn down my 044 oiler with a 32" in fresh softwoods


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## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 2, 2015)

I seriously think im gonna buy the 28" conversion kit for the 260-660 saws and try this in the name of science, i have a ported 261 and 362 im gonna try it on , to see how big of BS this really is.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 2, 2015)

Stephen C. said:


> that will only encourage him.....



Its not much money..what the hell..why not ?


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## Full Chisel (Mar 2, 2015)

This guy is taking advantage of gullible, uninformed people, plain and simple. The sad part is that he himself falls into that same category but considers himself an expert and disregards factual information and logic.


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## Moparmyway (Mar 2, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Its not much money..what the hell..why not ?


Haha !!!
    
Nice avatar !!!!!!!!!!


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## mdavlee (Mar 2, 2015)

He found pictures I posted on here and was using them for his ads. He even put his name on some like he does now and I can't do anything about it.


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## Philbert (Mar 2, 2015)

How about his oversized sprockets - has anyone used them? Feedback?

Philbert



Franny K said:


> "*Saw chain is not proprietary to any make or model of saw*, that means any saw CAN run any saw chain. Regardless of whether it may or may not be advisable to do so any chain can be made to fit any saw."


 That is somewhat true, especially, if you are able to modify drive sprockets to fit. What it does not take into effect is the tensile strength of the chain 'chassis'. 

In other words Oregon, STIHL, etc., expect 3/8 low profile chain to be run on saws up to a specified power and bar length, and size the components (tie straps, rivets, etc.) accordingly. Higher power saws, and longer loop lengths, put additional stress on these components, increasing the risk of failure. Chains intended for larger, higher power saws, have heavier duty components.



mdavlee said:


> He found pictures I posted on here and was using them for his ads. . . . I can't do anything about it.


If it's on eBay, you can file a report/complaint.


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## mdavlee (Mar 2, 2015)

Philbert said:


> How about his oversized sprockets - has anyone used them? Feedback?
> 
> Philbert
> 
> ...


Those are made by Danzco. They can be bought from Madsens and other places for $10-12 less each. 

I never thought of that. I may do it if he's still using them.


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## Gologit (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> A good timber FELLER can FELL more trees in a week then an arborist falls in a year. It takes an average timber FELLER 2 years to become proficient, (not an expert but proficient), an arborist will never gain that much chainsaw experience in 2 lifetimes.



I don't know anything about his saws but on the face of it his claims sound ridiculous. Arborists are just as hard on saws as loggers.
I don't know much about those little saws but I doubt if they'd hold up very long with a set up like he advertises. 
A good falling saw should last at least a season. It would be fun to take one of his little hotrods, work the snot out of it every day in a real-world logging environment, and see if it lasts. My guess is it wouldn't make it very long.
And using the word FELLERS is a dead give away. For a guy who claims to know anything about logging he sure uses the wrong terminology.


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## Landmark (Mar 2, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> He found pictures I posted on here and was using them for his ads. He even put his name on some like he does now and I can't do anything about it.


What a Con artist he is............a pure joke of a guy!


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## lone wolf (Mar 2, 2015)

landmark said:


> What a Con artist he is............a pure joke of a guy!


The write ups stink of BS a mile away.


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## nnero (Mar 2, 2015)

Wish I had known about this before I got the P61 to run a bigger bar (maybe one of the magical racing rim sprockets will turn it around?). I could've just got a 28" bar for the Tanaka and been done with it! My ms260 would just be overkill at that point lol.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 2, 2015)

He has good prices on cannon bars


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> The bar is awesome



It is, actually. You can read more about Cannon super mini bars here:

http://www.cannonbar.com/chainsawbars/csb_superminibar.html

For milling those are great on 044/440s. He used to file down large mount bars to make them fit small mounts. Then Cannon came out with the Super Minis which he sells on them now.

Oh, and watch the toes there bub, that PS Stihl factory chain is sharp.


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## o8f150 (Mar 2, 2015)

I built my own hot saw with a long bar so he can kiss my azz


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> The poor guy wil probably read all we say about him, if you search "Piltz saw" on google, the first link is an old topic about him on AS.



Yes, that is one reason this I post and re-post about his stuff here. Another is the amusement factor, as he digs himself bigger and bigger holes. The main reason is to warn off noobs and wood-be fallers that can kill themselves with these saws set up this way. I mean, where is OSHA when you actually need them? Can you see the lawsuits against this guy when someone cuts off a limb? Not a tree limb, an arm or a leg.


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## wyk (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> I do not have high blood pressure. Nor does Mr. Piltz really bother me any more. Its just that every time I log into Ebay and look at his stuff, the statements are longer than ever before and even more full of BS. It seems that he thinks that the more BS he posts, the more real it will become. As for posing shoeless with saws stuck into my deck, meh... I was into Aikido for about 4 years when I was younger. I am into guns for self defense now.
> 
> Here is some more insane crap he has for sale. He has these posted for a MS170/180 chainsaw (stab stab!). I cannot imagine a plastic engine case dealing with that kind of leverage. Imagine the torque from a long bar on a 170 with these PILTZ dawgs... snap!
> 
> View attachment 408160



Hrm... could mebbe use longer dawgs on my ported 241..


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## Rx7man (Mar 2, 2015)

rd35 said:


> It's kind of sad really. I would not be able to sleep at night knowing that I had sold products by mis-representing them. I've always thought it would be cool to put a fifth wheel unit on the back seat of a Harley so you could pull a gooseneck trailer with your motorcycle. Only mod needed is a smaller rear sprocket and a larger rear tire so it is able to go faster!!!



A bit like this? I went the wrong way on the gearing though.. I went with a 13-52, he'd recommend a 15-42


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> He found pictures I posted on here and was using them for his ads. He even put his name on some like he does now and I can't do anything about it.



You mean he is a plagiarizing bastard as well as a cheap lying fraud?


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## Moparmyway (Mar 2, 2015)

Rx7man said:


> A bit like this? I went the wrong way on the gearing though.. I went with a 13-52, he'd recommend a 15-42
> View attachment 408293


Those look like old RX7 rims


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## mdavlee (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> You mean he is a plagiarizing bastard as well as a cheap lying fraud?


Yep. When I asked him about it he said I found them on google.


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Yep. When I asked him about it he said I found them on google.



Well, return the favor. Make sure that people find these posts when they Google, "Piltz". Also, lets not leave out the other fictitious names in his online empire scams. Those being Tarzan ZipLines, KevlarGaffs, Piltz HOT SAWS, PILTZ Hot Saws Tarzan Ziplines LLC, and tarzanziplines Inc. LLC.

There are 2 arrest records on file for Tarzan Ziplines. Those records and his 2 business/personal addresses (one in Portland, and one in Milwaukie) are posted here:

http://www.bizapedia.com/or/TARZAN-ZIPLINES-INC.html


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

There have also been problems with his products sold, as posted here on AS in the past. I Googled it.

Ok.... I'll name them now as there not willing to compromise!!!
Do not buy anything off Kevlar gaffs / Tarzan zip lines on eBay or anywhere else!! 
I've been screwed make sure the same doesn't happen to you....

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/defective-10-pin-3-8-rim-would-you-use-it.239382/


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

Philbert said:


> How about his oversized sprockets - has anyone used them? Feedback?
> 
> Philbert



He just resells Danzco (a Seattle company) rims. Some guys I know use them for racing on big saws with short bars. I do not know anyone that uses them for small saws with long bars, 'cept the PiltzTard.

http://www.danzcoinc.com/html/chain_saw_sprockets.html


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## redoakman (Mar 2, 2015)

this is what he sent me after i asked him what a hot saw was lmaooo
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Hot-Saws-and-Funny-Cars-by-PILTZ-/10000000178015302/g.html


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## fordf150 (Mar 2, 2015)

redoakman said:


> this is what he sent me after i asked him what a hot saw was lmaooo
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Hot-Saws-and-Funny-Cars-by-PILTZ-/10000000178015302/g.html


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## SCTREEGUY (Mar 2, 2015)

You gonna put akickstart on instead of recoil?


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## Gologit (Mar 2, 2015)

redoakman said:


> this is what he sent me after i asked him what a hot saw was lmaooo
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Hot-Saws-and-Funny-Cars-by-PILTZ-/10000000178015302/g.html



I read your link. I don't think it matters what we think of that guy. He has such a high opinion of himself that a little criticism from us shouldn't bother him at all.

His statement that he's cut "10s of thousands of huge trees" reminds me of someone else that used to be on here. Notice that the farther he got into his answer the worse his spelling, grammar, and sentence structure became? A little PUI happening there? I really kinda hope he _was_ drunk...I'd hate to hear a sober man make the kind of claims he does.

And I wonder what kind of saw he used to cut those tens of thousands of trees...maybe a 250 with a 42 inch bar?


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## mdavlee (Mar 2, 2015)

Gologit said:


> I read your link. I don't think it matters what we think of that guy. He has such a high opinion of himself that a little criticism from us shouldn't bother him at all.
> 
> His statement that he's cut "10s of thousands of huge trees" reminds me of someone else that used to be on here. Notice that the farther he got into his answer the worse his spelling, grammar, and sentence structure became? A little PUI happening there? I really kinda hope he _was_ drunk...I'd hate to hear a sober man make the kind of claims he does.
> 
> And I wonder what kind of saw he used to cut those tens of thousands of trees...maybe a 250 with a 42 inch bar?


200T with a 36"[emoji90]


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## o8f150 (Mar 2, 2015)

here is one of his so called hot saws running,,he is not even pushing it, I just sent him a message and told him he was an idiot that he has no idea what a hot saw is


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## redoakman (Mar 2, 2015)

Gologit said:


> I read your link. I don't think it matters what we think of that guy. He has such a high opinion of himself that a little criticism from us shouldn't bother him at all.
> 
> His statement that he's cut "10s of thousands of huge trees" reminds me of someone else that used to be on here. Notice that the farther he got into his answer the worse his spelling, grammar, and sentence structure became? A little PUI happening there? I really kinda hope he _was_ drunk...I'd hate to hear a sober man make the kind of claims he does.
> 
> And I wonder what kind of saw he used to cut those tens of thousands of trees...maybe a 250 with a 42 inch bar?


its like you read my mind when i read that


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## Philbert (Mar 2, 2015)

Hot Saw



Philbert


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 2, 2015)

o8f150 said:


> here is one of his so called hot saws running,,he is not even pushing it, I just sent him a message and told him he was an idiot that he has no idea what a hot saw is



I liked how those big dawgs helped in making that real fast cut. This dude has vanity for sale.
John


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

Hot saw



PiltzTard


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## Deets066 (Mar 2, 2015)

Maybe he calls them hot saws because them long bars with no oil on em get way to dang hot!


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## lone wolf (Mar 2, 2015)

redoakman said:


> this is what he sent me after i asked him what a hot saw was lmaooo
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Hot-Saws-and-Funny-Cars-by-PILTZ-/10000000178015302/g.html


OMG this guy is the biggest Jackass idiot to come along in a while! Such stupidity ,lies and a con man SOB!


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

I think I figured out who Piltz ripped off for all his ideas...



Nothing can compete with BS factor of the Turbo Entabulator! Well, except Piltz!


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 2, 2015)

windthrown said:


> I think I figured out who Piltz ripped off for all his ideas...
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing can compete with BS factor of the Turbo Entabulator! Well, except Piltz!



Same type of ******** huh?


----------



## windthrown (Mar 2, 2015)

Yes, its the classic formula:

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance... 

Baffle them with bull$#!+.


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## Full Chisel (Mar 2, 2015)

> I lost my photo album but I'm sure there are some old timber fellers from Forks Washington who know what I'm talking about.



Pretty convienient that he lost the pictures of these massive old growth trees that he himself felled. This guy has got BS flowing out his ears.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Yes, that is one reason this I post and re-post about his stuff here. Another is the amusement factor, as he digs himself bigger and bigger holes. The main reason is to warn off noobs and wood-be fallers that can kill themselves with these saws set up this way. I mean, where is OSHA when you actually need them? Can you see the lawsuits against this guy when someone cuts off a limb? Not a tree limb, an arm or a leg.




This could be the good side of his saws. I'm pretty sure that a blue jean will stop the chain just as fast as a good pair of chaps


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Full Chisel said:


> Pretty convienient that he lost the pictures of these massive old growth trees that he himself felled. This guy has got BS flowing out his ears.



My dog ate my homework! Honest! I had it all done!


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## nnero (Mar 3, 2015)

I hope sawtroll doesn't see his comments on outboard clutches lol!


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## olyman (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Yah, that guy PILTZ has been busy on Ebay again. If you do not know who he is, he sells 40-60cc size Stihl "HOT" saws with really long low profile Canon bars on them with Stihl Picco PS loops. Like, MS180 saws with 28 inch bars and 8 pin rims. No other mods, just the long bars, big rims and loops. I mean, I like long PNW bars and all, but this guy is ridiculous. All he talks about is chain speed and has nothing to say about torque. Sad that, as power = torque x revs. He seems to think that power is all from chain speed alone and swears by it. In my world of engineering, longer bars require smaller rim drives for more torque and less speed. Otherwise the torque drops to a level that the chain and cutting resistance will just bog the saw. Apparently that does not happen in PILTZ land where the laws of physics do not apply. He advocates larger rims on longer bars. Say what? Never mind not needing an oil pump upgrade to keep those long bars wet, or that Picco bars are pretty thin and that length and thinness will create some real problems cutting in big wood. Hell, even my 026 with a 16 inch Picco B&C is pretty flexible. I also run that with a 7 pin rim at most.
> 
> Anyway, now he is writing 'expert' pearls of wisdom like, "Our favorite saw is the MS880 with 3/8 X 9 tooth sprocket on a 42 inch bar, we have 1000s of hours on that setup." or, "Big saws and short bars (Very Dangerous)", and We consider anything under 32 inches a short bar & anything under 24 very short. The guy is a complete douchebag, and I would love to see him come on this site and post this crap and get trashed, so of course he never will. Keep in mind that its fiction at best...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/A-word-abou...gs-and-Chisel-Chain-/10000000177885639/g.html


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## olyman (Mar 3, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Well dropping a whole tree does take less time than piecing one out sooo.....yeah in theory a logger will put more wood on the ground in less time. The rest of that is just BS.


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## RiverRat2 (Mar 3, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> He found pictures I posted on here and was using them for his ads. He even put his name on some like he does now and I can't do anything about it.


sounds like he needs a real kick in the sack!!!!


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## jughead500 (Mar 3, 2015)

How you guys like the dollar sign glitter?


----------



## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

redoakman said:


> this is what he sent me after i asked him what a hot saw was lmaooo
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Hot-Saws-and-Funny-Cars-by-PILTZ-/10000000178015302/g.html


Seriously? This guy isn't qualified to carry a true loggers gas can with comments like this... Zero credibility.

*"Full chisel chain always cuts faster and last longer in every application period!!! ... FULL chisel chain will always perform much better in all conditions period, it doesn't matter what wood or other material you're cutting or other conditions, it will always cut faster and LAST LONGER than any other chain frozen dirty clean or otherwise. "*


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## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Seriously? This guy isn't qualified to carry a true loggers gas can with comments like this... Zero credibility.
> 
> *"Full chisel chain always cuts faster and last longer in every application period!!! ... FULL chisel chain will always perform much better in all conditions period, it doesn't matter what wood or other material you're cutting or other conditions, it will always cut faster and LAST LONGER than any other chain frozen dirty clean or otherwise. "*


I dont even know where to begin biggest bull shiter ever award.


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## jughead500 (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm not a pro logger but i wouldn't let him carry me water.


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## cgraham1 (Mar 3, 2015)

Oh my Gawd, this guy is stupid....
*
"ALL outboard clutch saws should be considered obsolete antiques, don't make me say it twice."*

"We use only a few select Stihl saws that produce the most power to weight in their class they are as follows: MS180 MS250 MS261 * *MS362** MS660 and MS880 these 6 saws cover every range of cutting anyone will ever encounter and all of them are the best power to weight possible, the MS362 is the best power to weight most versatile saw made by anyone period and can be used from a 12 to 36 inch bar."


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## Rx7man (Mar 3, 2015)

I quite happily run my obsolete antiques


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## Rx7man (Mar 3, 2015)

Stephen C. said:


> doesn't matter, he wouldn't know how to carry water......



carrying it in a cup and running up and down the mountain more times will be more efficient.. it's all about cup speed!


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## jughead500 (Mar 3, 2015)

Stephen C. said:


> doesn't matter, he wouldn't know how to carry water......


Knowing him he'd try to sell me my own water and try to make me believe it would make me run faster.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 3, 2015)

cgraham1 said:


> the MS362 is the best power to weight most versatile saw made by anyone period and can be used from a 12 to 36 inch bar."



Is that you Mike?


----------



## beermeatguns (Mar 3, 2015)

Hot Saw 




Piltz "Hot Saw" 




Doesn't take a genius to figure out the difference.
But I can't believe that he sells any saws, but somehow he does.


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## Jon1212 (Mar 3, 2015)

These are kind of "hot".



And this is my saw.

If I put the two together, can I run a six foot guide bar?


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## cgraham1 (Mar 3, 2015)

beermeatguns said:


> Piltz "Hot Saw"


I bet that balances nicely.


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 3, 2015)

If you go to his completed auctions he's making $ hand over fist.Check out his neg feedback. Too funny! Lol


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 3, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> If you go to his completed auctions he's making $ hand over fist.Check out his neg feedback. Too funny! Lol


And the funny thing is i do not think stihl dealers are allowed to sell saws on the internet ,(oh did i say that out loud )


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> And the funny thing is i do not think stihl dealers are allowed to sell saws on the internet ,(oh did i say that out loud )


I doubt he's a dealer, but I'd like to be a fly on the wall when he's at his dealers shop.


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## jd548esco (Mar 3, 2015)

now how long a bar can i put on this ms170 i got from sears? 

i bet it will be a hot saw with this 72" bar!! 

hey-- i wonder if i can do the same with these cheap poulans?? like put a 6 ft bar on a wild thing??--


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Seriously? This guy isn't qualified to carry a true loggers gas can with comments like this... Zero credibility.
> 
> *"Full chisel chain always cuts faster and last longer in every application period!!! ... FULL chisel chain will always perform much better in all conditions period, it doesn't matter what wood or other material you're cutting or other conditions, it will always cut faster and LAST LONGER than any other chain frozen dirty clean or otherwise. "*



Yah, that is why I posted this thread again. I cannot read through all of his BS to find all the good gems, there is just SO forking much of it now! He has been on the writing rampage since I last looked at his stuff only a few months ago.

BTW: he only sells PS3 loops. Safety chain is apparently better and faster than non-safety PS loops? Snicker snicker...


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

Any vids of the stupid little saws with the stupid long bars in action? Now that would be entertaining.


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> And the funny thing is i do not think stihl dealers are allowed to sell saws on the internet ,(oh did i say that out loud )



Oh no, he says quite clearly that he is not a dealer. He is just flipping them. But... I know for a fact that Stihl frowns heavily on people that buy new saws and sell them on the internet, overseas, and even out of state. So I have to guess that he is buying them locally at the dealership close to him, or several of them. This is straight from the Piltz BS factory...

We run a large arborist and timber business and Custom high performance saw shop, some saws i have listed may have zero hours.

All my saws are guaranteed to be in perfect running condition. 

We are NOT a full service saw shop, we are a specialty high performance parts and supply ONLY.


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> Any vids of the stupid little saws with the stupid long bars in action? Now that would be entertaining.



Oh yes, he has them on Youtube. You can see how professional he is in these. PPE? Seems he does not use or sell any of that crap. Notice the professional bucking techniques here. I bet he 'pre' cut the log with the 090 there, and he just sweeps the cut with the long bar on the baby saw setup. Yep, a con is a con is a con...


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## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

The ******* acts like he cut the whole thing up into firewood or something! Big deal! You could hear that saw dying I bet it was hotter than hell.


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

And my favorite of his, standing on an uncertain fallen log cutting between your legs is always the best way to do any bucking. As is one handing a saw, which he likes to do a lot. Also notice the root ball on this one. Its windthrow, not a falled tree. He is just going through some wooded areas and bucking up downed trees. And who needs PPE? Or even gloves?


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## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

Ain't to slick in the head now is he?
He is just one of them people that naturally piss you off ain't he.
I would like to see it spring back at the cut buy the stump and smack him. Now that would be funny.


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## Duane(Pa) (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> And my favorite of his, standing on a log cutting between your legs is always the best way to do any bucking.



 Stick your hand in the sprocket cover


----------



## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

Seems like he was working almost as hard as the little MS250 was. Needing two hands on the rear handle, really..? 

Not exactly a speedy cut was it? A good practical joke on this guy would be to file his rakers just a touch and watch his little saws puke their clutch out.


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## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> The ******* acts like he cut the whole thing up into firewood or something! Big deal! You could hear that saw dying I bet it was hotter than hell.


 They are... Hot Sawz...


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## PULLINmyPOULAN (Mar 3, 2015)

He looks to much like a lawyer or a banker trying to cut wood or maybe that is the crowd who's buying his chit.


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## SS Sniper (Mar 3, 2015)

Best wood cutter I've seen...


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## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


>




Go to youtube and read the comments on this video! 

Question:
"I have an ms 170 and was wondering will the conversion for it to the 18 inch bar strain the motor because I cut a lot of firewood and would like a bigger saw but dont have the money."

Reply:
"The MS170 is the cheapest saw in the Stihl lineup and won't last as long as other models but our Hot Rod Kits does ease the strain at any given bar length giving you a longer life saw. Factory length bars for the MS170 are 14 inch or under. We recommend the 16 inch kit for the MS170 but it will run 18 inch. ..."


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## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> And my favorite of his, standing on an uncertain fallen log cutting between your legs is always the best way to do any bucking. As is one handing a saw, which he likes to do a lot. Also notice the root ball on this one. Its windthrow, not a falled tree. He is just going through some wooded areas and bucking up downed trees. And who needs PPE? Or even gloves?



That guys a retard, One day that one hand deal will come back to bite him.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

On another video he has of a 261 with a 28 inch "short" bar:



He has this to say (he knows everything being one of them thar timber fellers, and all you arborist goons making all the comments and complaints about his videos do not know doodly squat!):

WARNING! Never one hand a saw as you may see me doing at times, especially with these short bars as it can kill you, an experienced timber feller knows how and when to do things safely that will only kill you.
Kickback: Short bars are more deadly than long bars, and the most critical important advise I can offer is have a death grip on the pistol of any saw, it's when you lose that pistol grip that the saw can spin around on the handle bars and cut you open, the handle bars often work against you, when you lose control of the rear pistol grip the saw will pivot on your other hand holding the handle bars, your hand works like a bearing for the saw to spin around on, short bars can spin around and cut you open in milliseconds when you lose control of the rear pistol grip. We get a lot of comments from well meaning arborist who don't like us one handing saws, timber fellers one hand saws all the time, It's the pistol grip on saws that must be controlled at all times, all said we recommend you have a firm grip with both hands. Felling dogs help immensely to control kickback,


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## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

Check the Dawgs on that saw .


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## SS Sniper (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> On another video he has of a 261 with a 28 inch "short" bar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should treat any saw with respect no matter what bar length, displacement, etc.
Like said, he's obviously a retard who doesn't know jack ****


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

LMAO, those dawgs look plum ridiculous on that saw. You might want to start looking for his name in the obituaries.


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## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

Just what is he doing to them to say their HOT saws? Longer bar and bigger dawgs? Is that it?


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> That guys a retard, One day that one hand deal will come back to bite him.



I bet this guy would trip in calks, and probably does not even knows what they are.

But you know, he has felled



TENS OF THOUSANDS OF "Huge" TREES!


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Just what is he doing to them to say their HOT saws? Longer bar and bigger dawgs? Is that it?



Oh, do not forget the LARGER RIM DRIVES!

But yah, that's it. Really long 3/8 low profile bars, PS3 full chisel loops, big rim drives, BIG Dawgs, and certain stock Stihl saws.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Oh, do not forget the LARGER RIM DRIVES!
> 
> But yah, that's it. Really long 3/8 low profile bars, PS3 full chisel loops, big rim drives, BIG Dawgs, and certain stock Stihl saws.


I know nothing about making a hot saw or even rebuilding one, but none of those are going to make a HOT saw. And those huge Dawgs look stupid on a small saw. Guess he figures they might come in handy when that 261 starts cutting giant redwood trees.lol


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

SS, if you like those dawgs on the 261, look at the big dawgs on this 180C. Notice the hand placement on the top handle. Apparently it is best to grip it there on the side to avoid getting in the way of the brake paddle should you experience any kick-back and the bar is heading into your face (not...).



Looks like his mother is there in the background at a safe distance.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

LOL, he's cutting a pine, Put that bad boy in some oak and see what it does. why would you want dawgs that big on a saw that small, all you're doing is taking away any length on the bar.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

I just hope his guardian angel don't ever give up on him.lol


----------



## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> I know nothing about making a hot saw or even rebuilding one, but none of those are going to make a HOT saw. And those huge Dawgs look stupid on a small saw. Guess he figures they might come in handy when that 261 starts cutting giant redwood trees.lol


 
All depends on your skewed perception of "Hot Saw". According to him its just a saw that cuts faster than stock. According to him this can be acheived by changing "gears" (i.e. chain pitch, driver teeth # and chisel chain lol!).

And he said clearly, big dawgs prevent kickback. Duh


----------



## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> LOL, he's cutting a pine, Put that bad boy in some oak and see what it does. why would you want dawgs that big on a saw that small, all you're doing is taking away any length on the bar.


 
Whats an inch or two on a "very small" 20 or 24 inch bar anyways.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Whats an inch or two on a "very small" 20 or 24 inch bar anyways.


Not much I guess.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

Somebody should loan him a ported saw that one of the builders here done and let him get a taste of what a saw can really do.


----------



## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

He's actually doing the saw a small favor with those big dawgs.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

You guys correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't running a bar that's too big for the saw wear it out prematurily? Wouldn't it be hard on the clutch and engine. I would think so.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Marshy said:


> And he said clearly, big dawgs prevent kickback. Duh



Notice that in the 180c video, he is not dawged in at all. So how that prevents kick-back is a mystery that only he can answer. Seems confident enough to not need to have his left hand on the top handle, when it will be needed to set the brake in a kick-back situation. But what do I know.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> You guys correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't running a bar that's too big for the saw wear it out prematurily? Wouldn't it be hard on the clutch and engine. I would think so.



Yep. All chain speed and no torque on those loops with a larger rim drive puts a lot more torque on the clutch and engine. Those saws will bog like mad and have to be feathered all the time. I bet he edited out a bunch of cuts where he bogs the saws. He used to warn people about doing these kinds of cuts with these saws, but he has since removed them. The large dawgs on a 180 plastic case would also snap the plastic mounts if they were levered on very hard. Same with the bar mounts on a 180 with a long bar.

Basic principles about levers, torque and kickback seem to be lacking in his tiny little brain.


----------



## Full Chisel (Mar 3, 2015)

One thing that will definitely cause a saw to break down prematurely is dogging in a small displacement saw. Especially one with a long bar, they just DO NOT have enough torque to be laying into it. This guy is a special kind of dumb.


----------



## Marshy (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> You guys correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't running a bar that's too big for the saw wear it out prematurily? Wouldn't it be hard on the clutch and engine. I would think so.


 
Well according to him his kits ease the strain, what ever that means. This is part of his reply on a youtube video...: 
"Hot Rod Kits does ease the strain at any given bar length giving you a longer life saw. Factory length bars for the MS170 are 14 inch or under. We recommend the 16 inch kit for the MS170 but it will run 18 inch. ..."


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Intabulator math...


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Full Chisel said:


> This guy is a special kind of dumb.



A quote for the ages!


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

I don't do facebook or I would leave him a message.lol


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> You guys correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't running a bar that's too big for the saw wear it out prematurily? Wouldn't it be hard on the clutch and engine. I would think so.


hell yes.


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## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

What we have here is a genius! If you bet on the opposite of his ******** you will win every time.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

Someone should post the premature wear on a saw running his kits, he would probably delete it though. Meh. probably most of his sales are from guys that might run the saw once a year or less.


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Someone should post the premature wear on a saw running his kits, he would probably delete it though. Meh. probably most of his sales are from guys that might run the saw once a year or less.


Just keep posting here word will get out. Use keywords that Google search picks up


----------



## jughead500 (Mar 3, 2015)

Oh no! I don't wear gloves,chaps and i have piltz dawgz on my 360.Noooooooooooooooooooo i'm turning into a piltz. actually he's dumb i'm just crazy.


On a side note would anybody like to buy my new




package 017? It has an 8" bar muffler mod and big carbemtooter.when you get tired of piss revving you can always cut kindlin'.but buyer beware it has a small bar and kick back is going to be humungous not only dangerous but could kill your drunk buddys standing behind you.


----------



## Modifiedmark (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Someone should post the premature wear on a saw running his kits, he would probably delete it though. Meh. probably most of his sales are from guys that might run the saw once a year or less.




Like this MS250 "Hot Saw" 

Liking the inboard clutch now I bet.


----------



## Full Chisel (Mar 3, 2015)

Yeah, that's hot alright!


----------



## jughead500 (Mar 3, 2015)

Stephen C. said:


> me neither but If he had an assbook page...................I would leave him sumpin


Makes me want to get another assbook page just for instance's like this. where's the devil emoticons when you need them?
Oops there he is


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

jughead500 said:


> Makes me want to get another assbook page just for instance's like this. where's the devil emoticons when you need them?
> Oops there he is


Hell with CIA-Book


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

The Piltz salutation: 

_Having extensive experience cutting the very biggest timber in the world (see pic) and getting paid only for what we cut we know what a professional needs to cut trees, if we don't use it we don't sell it.
_
My new term for having _the stitz_ is having _the Piltz._ Tijuana style...


----------



## Chris-PA (Mar 3, 2015)

Well, I like little plastic clamshell saws, but this is just stupid! As has been noted, his claims run counter to any science/engineering priciples - just think of this as tax on people who want to feel cool doing something for which they have no training/knowledge/experience, and who also don't understand enough about basic mechanical principles to know they are being scammed.


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Mar 3, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 408227
> I thought the Piltzmeister had something there with the larger sprockets, so put a bigger 36 pin on my 346.
> I hope it makes the trees piss their roots. I just need the bigger dawgs.


 I see you also have the lightweight piston...


----------



## Philbert (Mar 3, 2015)

I have some wood grain veneer you can put on your plastic saw, if it will make anyone feel better . . .

Philbert


----------



## Knobby57 (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Oh yes, he has them on Youtube. You can see how professional he is in these. PPE? Seems he does not use or sell any of that crap. Notice the professional bucking techniques here. I bet he 'pre' cut the log with the 090 there, and he just sweeps the cut with the long bar on the baby saw setup. Yep, a con is a con is a con...



I cringe every time I see this tard drop start a front heavy saw , chain brake off , and on the throttle 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> Well, I like little plastic clamshell saws, but this is just stupid! As has been noted, his claims run counter to any science/engineering priciples - just think of this as tax on people who want to feel cool doing something for which they have no training/knowledge/experience, and who also don't understand enough about basic mechanical principles to know they are being scammed.



Yah, douchebag logic. My stock MS211 has considerably more power than a MS180, and it is a bit overwhelmed with PS full chisel Picco with a 6 spline drive and a 16" bar. I would never put a longer bar than that on it, and forget running with a bigger rim. It is more at home with semi-chisel RMC on it. Of course, Piltz claims that full chisel is the only chain to run, in all conditions, on all saws, period.


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 3, 2015)

Piltz is a damned liar!


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

He is also a scumbag.


----------



## Knobby57 (Mar 3, 2015)

I just searched him again on eBay . 32 inch kit for a ms250 . His listing said for cutting ice and limbing Only . Have any of you fellas ever cut ice ? It takes some power to pull through ice . Really makes you wonder if this guys parents where siblings . 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

That-dump tash...


----------



## Knobby57 (Mar 3, 2015)

Don't do drugs kids.. They will make you stupid


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

32 inch bar on a 250.


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 3, 2015)

Nobody has mentioned about the chain throws with those big sprockets he sells. He's no more a logger than flyin to the moon and back. He's a slap in the face to anybody who has ever used a saw. What should we do about this cull?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> 32 inch bar on a 250.



Yeah kinda short huh ,i run a 36


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Cutting ice?  Why would you want a 32 inch bar for cutting ice? Ice carving usually is done with a short 14-16 inch bar. If you are cutting lake ice for fishing, I guess it would be good for thin ice... with him standing on the cut-out.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Yeah kinda short huh ,i run a 36 View attachment 408683



Dayum! Full comp to boot!


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Nobody has mentioned about the chain throws with those big sprockets he sells. He's no more a logger than flyin to the moon and back. He's a slap in the face to anybody who has ever used a saw. What should we do about this cull?



Well, I keep calling him out on this site. I posted his addresses, and his business names. I am not on farcebook, or I would trash him on Ebay.

Maybe feed him to the BrushApe?


----------



## cgraham1 (Mar 3, 2015)

Knobby57 said:


> ...makes you wonder if this guys parents were siblings .


I know a guy who married his first cousin, and his kids seem a bit 'tarded to me.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 3, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Dayum! Full comp to boot!


It trims the hedges and and brush along the driveway very nice actually ,bought a hs80 hedge trimmer with a 36 inch bar ,it is gutless compared to the saw


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## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Yeah kinda short huh ,i run a 36 View attachment 408683


Yeah, well I have 60 inch on mine, but I ain't showin it.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 3, 2015)

I feel like a cull now ,i actually have a pilz 41 inch cannon bar ,i did not buy it from him though ,am the second owner lol


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## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> It trims the hedges and and brush along the driveway very nice actually ,bought a hs80 hedge trimmer with a 36 inch bar ,it is gutless compared to the saw


Here's how I do mine


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## stihl sawing (Mar 3, 2015)

And when the saw won't start.


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> It trims the hedges and and brush along the driveway very nice actually ,bought a hs80 hedge trimmer with a 36 inch bar ,it is gutless compared to the saw



I saw a hedge cutting attachment for a 026 once, but the guy wanted too much mullah for it.


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Here's how I do mine




Holy Shiite!


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 3, 2015)

Do you wonder if he's groovin on this negative attention? He's a dyed in the wool fuktard.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 3, 2015)

It makes you wonder what they say about us when we're not around.


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## Knobby57 (Mar 4, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Cutting ice?  Why would you want a 32 inch bar for cutting ice? Ice carving usually is done with a short 14-16 inch bar. If you are cutting lake ice for fishing, I guess it would be good for thin ice... with him standing on the cut-out.


 You never cut through the ice in a lake or pond . You can get bigger fishies through bigger holes . Who needs a ice auger when you got yourself a chainsaw 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Do you wonder if he's groovin on this negative attention? He's a dyed in the wool fuktard.



Obviously he does. I think that his remarks about arborists on Ebay are pointed at ArboristSite. O/w he does not make any sense, since he claims to run a LARGE ARBOR AND TIMEBER FALLING COMPANY.

There is a Piltz Tree Service listed in the city of Clackamas, OR in the local Yellow Pages:

http://www.dexknows.com/business_profiles/piltz_tree_service-b714919

That lists an arbor service that does "Tree removal - Stump grinding - Brush chipping & hauling" and lists a phone number. 

We know of course that he barely knows which end of the saw to grab. Seems odd that he trash talks arborists and talks up loggers if he owns this business, which is near Milwaukee and Portland where he is listed as owning Tarzan ZipLines. But then, there is no making sense of insanity.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 4, 2015)

He needs to pounded like a cheap steak. Lol


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> He needs to pounded like a cheap steak. Lol



Yes, agreed. It seems that Piltz Tree Service is now defunct. I seem to recall his saying that he was selling down their saw equipment from their business last year on Ebay. This site does not exist any more online: www.PiltzTreeService.com

Some ideas: Call Stihl and complain. They can kill his sales of saws on Ebay rather easily. Any Stihl company rep can pull the plug on his Stihl saw sales on Ebay. He seems to not have a tree company company any more, but I was thinking of calling OSHA and using his videos online to point out the complete lack of PPE, using uncertified and modified equipment on the job, and advocating use of such equipment online. The same information would go to his insurance company. I am sure that would stir his pot. Then of course I could file a complaint about his company against his license in the state of Oregon. Then... lemmeseee... we could all buy cheap crap from him on Ebay and file negative feedback. We can, as I have done, raise the awareness about him online and post negative crap about him on any and all arbor sites, wood sites, saw sites, etc. online. Lodge the Piltz is a Puts campaign. It will show up on Google and any other search engines.


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## Moparmyway (Mar 4, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Lodge the Piltz is a Puts campaign. It will show up on Google and any other search engines.


Lodge the Piltz is a Puts campaign
Great idea !!!


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## Marshy (Mar 4, 2015)

I dont think he is on Facebook, I took a look and didnt find anything under Piltz, Tarzan, or Tarzan ZipLines...


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## nnero (Mar 4, 2015)

He doesnt need PPE or his hand on the handlebar because he has such a firm grip on the "pistol grip". It cant kick back. lol


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## nnero (Mar 4, 2015)

If Piltz drops a 200' tall tree in the forest, and no one else is around, does it make a sound? NO because its all in his imagination. He is a hero in his own mind. Hes also probably stopped terrorist attacks too.


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 4, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Yeah kinda short huh ,i run a 36 View attachment 408683


 That doesn't look like a 025 though. I thought they had orange handles...


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## Moparmyway (Mar 4, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> I feel like a cull now ,i actually have a pilz 41 inch cannon bar ,i did not buy it from him though ,am the second owner lol


Feel like taking some close-up pics of it ?
Nose, tail, etc ?


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 4, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Feel like taking some close-up pics of it ?
> Nose, tail, etc ?


 If you ever want to sell it I need a long bar for my Homelite Super 2..


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## Knobby57 (Mar 4, 2015)

I sent him a message 

Dear kevlargaffs,

32 inch bar and a ms250 . Did you smoke your breakfast ??? And to cut ice . Have you ever tried to cut ice with a chainsaw ?? It takes more power to pull through ice than wood !!! I hope you have really good liability insurance selling a bar that long for a short frame saw ... Kickback would be destructive . I hope to god this listing is a joke . For the love of mankind I really hope it is

- knobby57

Dear knobby57,

Clearly you have absolutely no knowledge about the subject whosoever, we recommend you start by reading this article which deals directly with kickback and long short bars, here's a link:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/A-word-abou...gs-and-Chisel-Chain-/10000000177885639/g.html

- kevlargaffs
Click the Respond button to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply

Respond



Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 4, 2015)

I've looked at their ads on ebay and always thought it would be silly to put a long bar on a basic homeowner's saw. I read their feedback and didn't see much negative from buyers, maybe they were too embarrassed to admit they bought one of those things. If the price was right I might buy one, take the bar and chain off and use it on something else and put a 16" bar on the Stihl 250.


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

What I don t understand is why is this dope pushing the long bars for small saws he can just sell the long bars for the right saws?


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## redtractor (Mar 4, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> What I don t understand is why is this dope pushing the long bars for small saws he can just sell the long bars for the right saws?


 
The way he sets it up and markets them, he's the only one. If you buy into the BS, you can't go anywhere else.


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 4, 2015)

I saw the demo of these saws on youtube and wasn't very impressed. If you want a saw for bucking and don't want to take all day, almost anything with a sharp chain will be faster than that...


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## Philbert (Mar 4, 2015)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I read their feedback and didn't see much negative from buyers, maybe they were too embarrassed to admit they bought one of those things.


EBay buyer feedback mostly ends when the buyer receives the product. It is not an indication of their long term satisfaction. Only if they receive the item, if it was as described, if the shipping was on time, etc. Once submitted, it can't be changed if the buyer becomes disillusioned a few weeks later. 

While I don't agree with the guy's representation of chainsaw facts, it is really no different then the type of hype marketing done on TV infommercials, many magazine ads, etc.
_
". . . big or small, this does it all! But wait . . .!"_

He is appealing to vanity, and to people not technically well informed. 

Philbert


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2015)

Philbert said:


> EBay buyer feedback mostly ends when the buyer receives the product. It is not an indication of their long term satisfaction. Only if they receive the item, if it was as described, if the shipping was on time, etc. Once submitted, it can't be changed if the buyer becomes disillusioned a few weeks later.
> 
> While I don't agree with the guy's representation of chainsaw facts, it is really no different then the type of hype marketing done on TV infommercials, many magazine ads, etc.
> _
> ...


Plus I don't doubt that they do cut wood. If you have zero expectations, then what do you measure by?


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## Marshy (Mar 4, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> Plus I don't doubt that they do cut wood. If you have zero expectations, then what do you measure by?


 Likely the amount of sting on ones hand from the chips coming from the clutch cover. You can see he seems to feel the need to check when running it left handed and with one hand.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 4, 2015)

There's nothing more dangerous than falling timber with a saw that cuts slower than the tree will fall. Especially leaners.
Using the Piltz method just shows lack of experience and a disregard for safety.
John


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 4, 2015)

Gologit said:


> I read your link. I don't think it matters what we think of that guy. He has such a high opinion of himself that a little criticism from us shouldn't bother him at all.
> 
> His statement that he's cut "10s of thousands of huge trees" reminds me of someone else that used to be on here. Notice that the farther he got into his answer the worse his spelling, grammar, and sentence structure became? A little PUI happening there? I really kinda hope he _was_ drunk...I'd hate to hear a sober man make the kind of claims he does.
> 
> And I wonder what kind of saw he used to cut those tens of thousands of trees...maybe a 250 with a 42 inch bar?


Sounds like Holman Trees[emoji3] but he cut millions not thousands.


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## Full Chisel (Mar 4, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> What I don t understand is why is this dope pushing the long bars for small saws he can just sell the long bars for the right saws?



Probably because people who are in the market for a legit long bar are actually knowledgeable about the product they are buying!


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

Full Chisel said:


> Probably because people who are in the market for a legit long bar are actually knowledgeable about the product they are buying!


Whats he sell these cheap little saws?


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

a. palmer jr. said:


> That doesn't look like a 025 though. I thought they had orange handles...



That is an 026 PRO saw. Similar to the 261 that PiltzTard uses in one of his vids and sells on Ebay.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> What I don t understand is why is this dope pushing the long bars for small saws he can just sell the long bars for the right saws?



You got us there. There is simply no logic to any of the stupidity. He preaches that full chisel Picco chain, long bars, small power saws, and big rims are the answer. He says it over and over again in his Ebay circular BS essays and listings. Ignore the physical principles of leverage, gearing, torque, safety, chain speed, etc. etc. He also clearly states that chainsaws manufacturers do not have a clue and he does. Also look at the "professionalism" demonstrated in his videos. Its an OSHA field day of violations. He would also clearly fail chainsaw falling certification in Oregon. He is a giant disaster and a law suit just waiting to happen. Any lawyer could tear him apart in court (and probably already has).


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## speedthrills (Mar 4, 2015)

_I see what you were talking about now, along bar and big sprocket have no place on any small cc saw. No power to pull it, have seen his claims and listing them as hot saws. They would get hot and score pistons from being overloaded, ie hotsaw guess he's right on that lol._


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Sounds like Holman Trees[emoji3] but he cut millions not thousands.



Groan. Holman Trees. He cut 2 MILLION trees in what was it, 20 years time? Gary and I figured it out and he would have to have cut 400 trees a day (250 work days a year) to deck that many trees. That is 50 trees an hour for 20 years straight! No down time. No ice storms. No holidays off. Full 8 hour days. Only 2 weeks vacation a year. Quite the machine! Not... he was banned from AS for life for making threats in PMs to people. He is still a legend in his own mind over on Butch's master blaster site. 

This clown has only 'cut' tens of thousands of trees. In an arbor business, which he himself trashes in his Ebay essays. Or someplace where he 'logged' the really big ones and has lost all the photos. Dunno why he doesn't just steal photos of his supposed tree 'felling' using Google, like he stole photos from AS members for his Ebay sales. If you look at some of the posts by people that really have dropped the big ones, like RandyMAC in NorCal, it might take all day to deck one giant old growth tree. The bigger they are, the more time they take to cut, the more time you need to line them out, and the more time they are to limb and buck once they are on the ground.

It never ends with these people. They are dug in so deep they cannot climb out any more.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

Marshy said:


> I dont think he is on Facebook, I took a look and didnt find anything under Piltz, Tarzan, or Tarzan ZipLines...



Yah, I looked there as well. The deal here is that you can use a Facebook account to reply to his posts on Ebay.


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

Do his hot saws have a pop up?


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> Do his hot saws have a pop up?



Sorry, bone stock. No pop, no squish. Just plain buffalo chips, piled long and deep.


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

He's like a real life brush ape!!!


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## Full Chisel (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> He's like a real life brush ape!!!



Maybe he IS BrushApe! :O


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## Deleted member 83629 (Mar 4, 2015)

can we start an oil thread now


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

A rear handled 200t with a piltz kit would be great for an arborist looking for a little more reach!!!!!! This guy must be a real dweeb promoting this jargon.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 4, 2015)

What is his first name and why isn't he posting here or on other forums?


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

He's a sissy and sits down to pee. That's why.


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## nnero (Mar 4, 2015)

He also claimed to be a "field tester" for Stihl in the 80s. They wouldn't listen to his advice either.


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> What is his first name and why isn't he posting here or on other forums?


Maybe you should invite him over all cool and all


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> He's a sissy and sits down to pee. That's why.


There are woman that can kick his ass.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> He's like a real life brush ape!!!



Yes... but I think that even The Ape knows he is posting pure BS to stir up the shiite.

The PiltzTard believes his stream of BS and keeps spitting out the propaganda, thus is much more like his high supreme turdliness:



Kim Junk-goon


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

Kim Junk Gook


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## Ray Bell (Mar 4, 2015)

Yikes


stihl sawing said:


> Here's how I do mine



Yikes, at least he admits it is "really, really dangerous, and really, really stupid"!


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

Ray Bell said:


> Yikes
> 
> Yikes, at least he admits it is "really, really dangerous, and really, really stupid"!


He knows he is screwing around the other dope is just weird.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> A rear handled 200t with a piltz kit would be great for an arborist looking for a little more reach!!!!!! This guy must be a real dweeb promoting this jargon.



Stihl 200T saws have an outboard clutch though, which accd' to PiltzTard in his _Hot Saws and Funny Cars_ Ebay essay:

All said if your saw doesn't have an inboard clutch as found on all new Stihl saws its not a professional saw, *ALL outboard clutch saws should be considered obsolete antiques, don't make me say it twice.*

Note the obvious contradiction to what the latest Stihl catalog says, once, twice, or otherwise which is that the 210T, 192T and 150T saws are all _Professional Tree Service Saws._ Of course the PiltzTard knows more than Stihl or any other chainsaw manufacturer does. He should start his own line of chainsaws. I am sure they would fly just like pigs. 

So throw those 200T saws away! They are obsolete antiques! Send all of them pieces of junk to me, I will even pay the postage and send you a $5 Starbucks gift certificate for your time.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> Kim Junk Gook



Yah, well I was gonna say that, but... I think that just degrades anyone out there that deserves to be called that.


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Stihl 200T saws have an outboard clutch though, which accd' to PiltzTard in his _Hot Saws and Funny Cars_ Ebay essay:
> 
> All said if your saw doesn't have an inboard clutch as found on all new Stihl saws its not a professional saw, *ALL outboard clutch saws should be considered obsolete antiques, don't make me say it twice.*
> 
> ...


Them 200 T's are cool little saws they come apart nice because they use roller bearings at the crank and slip apart easily with no special tools.


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

With a hot saw kit you'll never need to "slip" it apart. It'll come apart in pieces by itself.


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> With a hot saw kit you'll never need to "slip" it apart. It'll come apart in pieces by itself.


I bet it will. Like that longbar idiots leg will one day.


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

His leg will never sustain injuryb from a long bar. That is unless the saw slips when he's starting it and it jumps out if his hand due to the high commission of it being a hot saw.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

nnero said:


> He also claimed to be a "field tester" for Stihl in the 80s. They wouldn't listen to his advice either.



As I recall, Holman Trees said that he did that too, but he went one further: he went to Germany and felled trees with Andreas Stihl himself. Or some such nonsense. Dunno how he found the time to do that though, 50 trees an hour is a tall order. He must have fallen 300 an hour in Germany to make up for the flight time? Funny, Holman Trees and I got into it over wide nose bars, which led to his threatening us and getting banned. I recommended a wide nose yellow label bar to a guy, and he went completely berserk. Said he would get sent home if he showed up to work with a wide nosed bar on his saw.


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

coltont said:


> His leg will never sustain injuryb from a long bar. That is unless the saw slips when he's starting it and it jumps out if his hand due to the high commission of it being a hot saw.


And thats why he can one hand it I spouse.


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## windthrown (Mar 4, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> What is his first name and why isn't he posting here or on other forums?



'Cause he would get tossed or piled on in a hurry.

I looked through all my phone books here and there are no listings for Piltz or Piltz Tree Service, Tarzan anything, or Kevlargaffs in any of them in the white or yellow pages going back 6 years (in 5 different sets of phone company books). I think he just had a dummy company name and has the LLC for liability setup at the two addresses I listed earlier.

Looking at the county tax history on the property he has listed in his LLC, they are stacked and have been owned under different names over the years, but its obviously him. Or him and his wife. Hard to tell and deceptive, by design.


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## lone wolf (Mar 4, 2015)

windthrown said:


> 'Cause he would get tossed or piled on in a hurry.


Invite him over. Its only fair he gets to speak his side right?


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 4, 2015)

windthrown said:


> 'Cause he would get tossed or piled on in a hurry.


He probably knows that already. He's trying to corner the wannabe market.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 4, 2015)

Ok, which one of you guys is going to buy one of his kits and gives the truthful scoop on it?


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## heyduke (Mar 4, 2015)

sorry to be a dissenter, a pantiwaste arborist to boot, and this guy is a master bser, and there are plenty of folks who will line up to be bsed, but... the idea of using 3/8 lo pro on longer bars is an interesting one. i took an old jonsereds 525, 50cc, found a 20" bar with lo pro nose sprocket on baileys. it still has the 7 tooth rim and i doubt i'll bother to experiment with that. i use it for wrecking cottonwoods. their lower limbs tend to be too big for a 35cc top handle. the johnyshreds is light and nimble when up in the tree and with the lo pro chain it cuts pretty fast. of course on the stem i'll switch to a 394 or 084.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Mar 4, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Ok, which one of you guys is going to buy one of his kits and gives the truthful scoop on it?


i guess you are


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## stihl sawing (Mar 4, 2015)

jakewells said:


> i guess you are


Should I order the 60 inch bar for the 250?


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## coltont (Mar 4, 2015)

Get the kit that comes with a bar long enough to put all the chain off a '100 roll on the bar at once.


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## Philbert (Mar 4, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> He probably knows that already. He's trying to corner the wannabe market.


He's getting lots of free publicity here . . . .



windthrown said:


> . . . 50 trees an hour is a tall order.




. . . . only if you do them one at a time . . . . (Mt. St. Helens)

Philbert


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 4, 2015)

windthrown said:


> As I recall, Holman Trees said that he did that too, but he went one further: he went to Germany and felled trees with Andreas Stihl himself. Or some such nonsense. Dunno how he found the time to do that though, 50 trees an hour is a tall order. He must have fallen 300 an hour in Germany to make up for the flight time? Funny, Holman Trees and I got into it over wide nose bars, which led to his threatening us and getting banned. I recommended a wide nose yellow label bar to a guy, and he went completely berserk. Said he would get sent home if he showed up to work with a wide nosed bar on his saw.


Lol i remember that thread.


----------



## Deets066 (Mar 4, 2015)

This thread reminds me of that episode of the Chappelle show "the player hater's ball!"


----------



## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2015)

jakewells said:


> can we start an oil thread now


Sure; Piltz oil - the less you use the better it works!



heyduke said:


> but... the idea of using 3/8 lo pro on longer bars is an interesting one.


Yup, and I'm a believer in lo pro chain. I often read about what people need to have a fast saw pulling 16-18" bars and think, "Gee, I do that with a smaller displacement saw". But it's going to be proportional - you get a 20% narrower kerf and do the same work with 20" less power. And I'd like to see lo pro extended to 20" - a 45-50cc saw would pull that great.

But there's still all the issues with even longer bars on light plastic-chassis saws with small engines, low output oilers clutches that were not designed for the load, etc.. Even my 42cc Poulans with real bar studs and oilers that put out prodigious volumes of oil would not be appropriate with a 24" bar. And there is probably a reason the manufacturers don't use lo pro on longer bars.


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## Philbert (Mar 4, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> And there is probably a reason the manufacturers don't use lo pro on longer bars.


Tensile strength.

Oregon 91 series chain (3/8 low profile) is rated for use on saws up to 2.5 cubic inches / 42 cc, and bars up to 18 inches. For larger displacement saws, or longer bars, they would need to use heavier materials, thicker tie straps, etc., which would downgrade performance on smaller saws.

STIHL used to make '_Topic_' chain, which was full sized 3/8 inch pitch chain, but with smaller cutters.

Philbert


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## heyduke (Mar 4, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> Sure; Piltz oil - the less you use the better it works!
> 
> 
> Yup, and I'm a believer in lo pro chain. I often read about what people need to have a fast saw pulling 16-18" bars and think, "Gee, I do that with a smaller displacement saw". But it's going to be proportional - you get a 20% narrower kerf and do the same work with 20" less power. And I'd like to see lo pro extended to 20" - a 45-50cc saw would pull that great.
> ...



i have heard of millers switching to lo pro with power heads of prodigious power. indeed, i think you can now buy lo pro ripping chain and longer lo pro bars. i suspect that the cannon bars used by our miscreant were intended for that purpose.



Philbert said:


> Tensile strength.
> 
> Oregon 91 series chain (3/8 low profile) is rated for use on saws up to 2.5 cubic inches / 42 cc, and bars up to 18 inches. For larger displacement saws, or longer bars, they would need to use heavier materials, thicker tie straps, etc., which would downgrade performance on smaller saws.
> 
> ...



i agree. tensile strength is a figure of merit. but like climbing rope, dynamic loading has to be considered too. my gut feeling is that it would be possible to use lo pro with a 3120 and a 60" bar, at least for milling. and i suspect that there are operators doing that. also, i doubt that plastic framed stihl clamshells and poulans are stout enough for that duty.

oregon recently increased the top plate length of its lo pro chain, perhaps to compete with carlton.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 4, 2015)

Someone needs to do a test.
I think it was Walt Galer that said a Volkswagen could be hung with a 3/8 chain.


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## heyduke (Mar 4, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Someone needs to do a test.
> I think it was Walt Galer that said a Volkswagen could be hung with a 3/8 chain.



you could probably hang your f250. that would be 6000lbs. my climbing rope will do more than that.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 4, 2015)

I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut

Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.


----------



## heyduke (Mar 4, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut
> 
> Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.



my experience, the rim drive sprocket doesn't care if it's 3/8" or lo pro. the nose sprocket on the bar won't run both. it has to be 3/8" *or* lo pro.


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## heyduke (Mar 4, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut
> 
> Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.



it's been more than ten years but i think i have run oregon (or carlton) lo pro on a milling bar with a 3120 on one end and a 394 on the other. the chain was ground to 10 degrees.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 4, 2015)

If these lo-pro chains arent designed for anything over 40cc why is cannon making long bars to accept these picco chains ? That would make them as dumb as him correct ?

Is oregons picco rim kit different from stihls ? Did i read in this thread or somewhere else they were different ?


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## cobey (Mar 4, 2015)

heyduke said:


> my experience, the rim drive sprocket doesn't care if it's 3/8" or lo pro. the nose sprocket on the bar won't run both. it has to be 3/8" *or* lo pro.


 it will run on a roller nose or .050 hard nose bar


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## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

cobey said:


> it will run on a roller nose or .050 hard nose bar


i'll try again tomorrow, but every time i've tried to run lo pro on a 3/8" sprocket nosed bar, it hasn't worked. rims aren't a problem. could you post some video or photos? what does chain gauge have to do with it? if you have a .063 bar you need .063 chain, 3/8' or lo pro. thanks.


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## cobey (Mar 5, 2015)

heyduke said:


> i'll try again tomorrow, but every time i've tried to run lo pro on a 3/8" sprocket nosed bar, it hasn't worked. rims aren't a problem. could you post some video or photos? thanks.


 it wont work on a big 3/8 nose sprocket, I modified an 041 mount to fit my small mount husky (put oil holes in it)


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## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

cobey said:


> it wont work on a big 3/8 nose sprocket, I modified an 041 mount to fit my small mount husky (put oil holes in it)


so what i hear is you modified a 041 bar to work as an 095. that's good, but we're talking about the other end, the nose sprocket. in my experience nose sprockets for 3/8" and lo pro don't work with both. am i missing something? thanks.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 5, 2015)

I'm a bit confused. Although I've never used low pro, isn't it the same pitch and can be used in 3/8 bars?


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Ok, which one of you guys is going to buy one of his kits and gives the truthful scoop on it?



Don't feed the turd.


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> Sure; Piltz oil - the less you use the better it works!



Yes, this is the non-oil thread. Too much bar and not enough oil. Those oil pumps in the 1123 saws are tiny.

Bar burn, anyone?


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

heyduke said:


> i have heard of millers switching to lo pro with power heads of prodigious power. indeed, i think you can now buy lo pro ripping chain and longer lo pro bars. i suspect that the cannon bars used by our miscreant were intended for that purpose. <snipette>
> 
> oregon recently increased the top plate length of its lo pro chain, perhaps to compete with carlton.



For one, Oregon does not compete with Carlton any more, because they are both owned by Blount here in Portland, Oregon now.

I got into low profile long ago after hearing about it from some of the chainsaw milling people here on AS. They were using Logosol low profile bars on 70cc saws for milling, because of the narrow kerf and because large saws tend to overheat using 3/8s standard B&C for milling. While those saws can oil a long bar, you really have to be careful running that setup because the chain is not designed to deal with that kind of torque. But they ran it. For a very short time Stihl sold large mount Picco bars on the 024, but stopped after about 6 months in the US. Seemingly they did that to avoid liability issues after they figured out that guys were running them on much larger saws. At one time Logosol also sold large mount low profile B&C for Stihl saws for milling, from 16 to 20 inch. The also no longer sell them in the US, also seemingly for liability reason.

I had used low profile on my TH saws, and I switched out my 025/250 small mount saws from .325 to 3/8 Picco/low profile. They ran better and cut faster. I stayed with that setup on those saws. 16" and 18" B&C worked well. I later swapped out my 1123 saws for 026/260 saws, and never looked back. I did a series of tests between .325 and 3/8 std chain on several 026s and they were basically a dead heat. So I flipped all my large mount .325 B&C to 3/8 std. 16" and 18" so that I had all 3/8 std B&C on all my saws. Then I bought a few 211 saws with low profile on them, and got back into Picco chain. Recently I came across a 16" Picco 3003 large mount bar from an 024. I also had a P-7 rim, and I got some PS chain for it at the local Stihl shop. I put it all on my 026/260 hybrid and WHAM! It runs like a dream. They sell that setup in Germany as a kit, but not here in the states.

So folks, my beef here is not with Picco B&C on saws, even large mount saws. There is a place for them, if you have pro style metal bar mounts and an oil pump that can wet the bar. The issue with Piltz, besides all his BS statements that are pure crap, is that he is selling hugely long bars on small homeowner plastic saws and smaller pro saws. He is also advocating using larger rims on those saws with longer bars, which defies basic principles of physics. Picco B&C is great stuff, if you stay within the scope of design specifications. A 16" Picco B&C spins fast and furious with full chisel PS chain on a 026, 260 or 261. A 241 will run it just fine as well. But these 24-32 inch bars are way beyond the design parameters of those smaller saws. Adding even larger rims just puts more strain on the clutch and engine to get more chain speed. Running low profile B&C on larger saws is done, mainly for milling, but be advised that that is also beyond the parameters of that chain's ability to manage the higher levels of torque. A 50cc saw is pretty much the limit of safe use with Picco loops and that is the largest saw I run this stuff on. I also run a much shorter bar than Piltz advocates, and a smaller rim.


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think im gonna try it , the more bad i read the more i wanna know...i think im gonna give the 260-660 28" kit a spin , does picco run in a standard 3/8 sprocket ? I have a 261 and 362 ill try it on..anything bigger id be scared to snap the chain on a full bar cut
> 
> Im scared its gonna break on 50 or 60cc as is.




Low profile/Picco needs a different rim drive and nose sprocket than 3/8 standard. My rim drive on my 026 says P-7 on it.


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> If these lo-pro chains arent designed for anything over 40cc why is cannon making long bars to accept these picco chains ? That would make them as dumb as him correct ?
> 
> Is oregons picco rim kit different from stihls ? Did i read in this thread or somewhere else they were different ?



Cannon sells the low larger profile bars here for the same reason that Stihl and Logosol once did. Mainly the demand for chainsaw milling. But you gott'a be very careful running Picco on larger saws. And they are open for liability if someone kills themselves. Just look at the Blitz gas can litigation that did that company in as an example.

Oregon and Stihl have different types of clutch drum spines, and an Oregon clutch drum will not fit Stihl rims, and vice verse. Baileys sells both types.


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> I'm a bit confused. Although I've never used low pro, isn't it the same pitch and can be used in 3/8 bars?



3/8 low profile will run in a 3/8 standard bar rail, but the rim drive is different, and the nose sprocket is different. The nose sprockets on a 3/8 standard bar are longer and wider than a low profile tip, and the low profile chain will raise up around the tip and the chain will wear and stretch rapidly. Before Cannon came out with Super Mini bars, Piltz used to sell these saws with long standard 3/8 bars and he warned people that the Picco chains would not last long on them. Read his fine print... always warnings about these being novelty saws, not intended to do large diameter cutting, long bars not being lubed properly, etc. etc.


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## olyman (Mar 5, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Groan. Holman Trees. He cut 2 MILLION trees in what was it, 20 years time? Gary and I figured it out and he would have to have cut 400 trees a day (250 work days a year) to deck that many trees. That is 50 trees an hour for 20 years straight! No down time. No ice storms. No holidays off. Full 8 hour days. Only 2 weeks vacation a year. Quite the machine! Not... he was banned from AS for life for making threats in PMs to people. He is still a legend in his own mind over on Butch's master blaster site.
> 
> This clown has only 'cut' tens of thousands of trees. In an arbor business, which he himself trashes in his Ebay essays. Or someplace where he 'logged' the really big ones and has lost all the photos. Dunno why he doesn't just steal photos of his supposed tree 'felling' using Google, like he stole photos from AS members for his Ebay sales. If you look at some of the posts by people that really have dropped the big ones, like RandyMAC in NorCal, it might take all day to deck one giant old growth tree. The bigger they are, the more time they take to cut, the more time you need to line them out, and the more time they are to limb and buck once they are on the ground.
> 
> It never ends with these people. They are dug in so deep they cannot climb out any more.


 and theres a few more of them,,still on this forum...legends in their own mind........


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## olyman (Mar 5, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Yes... but I think that even The Ape knows he is posting pure BS to stir up the shiite.
> 
> The PiltzTard believes his stream of BS and keeps spitting out the propaganda, thus is much more like his high supreme turdliness:
> 
> ...


 evil looking little goon.............


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 5, 2015)

olyman said:


> and theres a few more of them,,still on this forum...legends in their own mind........


That hurt Oly.


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## stihl sawing (Mar 5, 2015)

Well forget the long bar, I'm going to go play in the snow like a kid.lol


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## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> I'm a bit confused. Although I've never used low pro, isn't it the same pitch and can be used in 3/8 bars?


my experience, rim sprockets don't care if it's 3/8" or 3/8" lo pro. sprocket tips in bars will work with one or the other, not both.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 5, 2015)

I just tried these

Top : a PS chain in a standard 3/8 sprocket..seems like it would ride in it fine.

bottom : PM in a stihl picco 8T rim


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## fordf150 (Mar 5, 2015)

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/getting-serious-about-lo-pro.121746/

Awhile back i did some research on this subject and 3/8 sprocket nose will NOT work with LP chain however the rim sprocket WILL work. It doesnt line up perfectly and will cause some extra wear on the chain and rim. To my knowledge there is no LP rim for standard small spline. Stihl has it for their mini spline though.


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## fordf150 (Mar 5, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> View attachment 408967
> 
> 
> I just tried these
> ...


lay the 2 rims on top of each other....the picco rim is slightly larger in diameter to account for the smaller chassis of the picco chain.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 5, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/getting-serious-about-lo-pro.121746/
> 
> Awhile back i did some research on this subject and 3/8 sprocket nose will NOT work with LP chain however the rim sprocket WILL work. It doesnt line up perfectly and will cause some extra wear on the chain and rim. To my knowledge there is no LP rim for standard small spline. Stihl has it for their mini spline though.



So you could run picco on a standard 3/8 setup you just need the proper bar is the conclusion ?


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## fordf150 (Mar 5, 2015)

that is what i came up with.


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## Philbert (Mar 5, 2015)

There is a lot of information on this in the thread that fordf150 referenced in Post #276, above. Used to be some very detailed photos that showed the fit issues clearly, although, some have been lost.

Philbert

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/getting-serious-about-lo-pro.121746/


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## SS Sniper (Mar 5, 2015)

So is anyone gonna send him a link to this thread? I think he'd cry haha


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## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

SS Sniper said:


> So is anyone gonna send him a link to this thread? I think he'd cry haha


 i doubt it. scammers don't cry. also, i haven't done the research yet but i suspect the cannon bars he's using are a response to millers for longer lo pro bars. logosol sells similar bars but the are costly. some of the suppositions in that thread are probably incorrect too, especially that lo pro can't cut faster than 3/8". i'll tell you from my experience that if you replace a 3/8" chain with a 3/8" lp you will gain cutting speed due to higher rpm. also, i'll debate that you can run lo pro with a 3/8" nose sprocket. my experience has been that lo pro chain will bind due to the drive links climbing up on the sprocket teeth. don't take my word for it try it yourself. if i have some time today, unlikely, i will make a vid of my jshred 525 running lo pro (with a lo pro nose sprocket on a 20" guide bar.)


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## SAWMIKAZE (Mar 5, 2015)

It all makes sense the 3/8 picco would cut faster it has less to pull.

The joke of it to me is the saws he puts these 28" and 32" bars on , theres no way they oil it enough and the saws themselves obviously arent designed for it..would my ported 362c or 261 pull 28 or 32 with lo-pro chain ?..im gonna find out.


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## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> It all makes sense the 3/8 picco would cut faster it has less to pull.
> 
> The joke of it to me is the saws he puts these 28" and 32" bars on , theres no way they oil it enough and the saws themselves obviously arent designed for it..would my ported 362c or 261 pull 28 or 32 with lo-pro chain ?..im gonna find out.



you don't have to buy them from piltz:

cannonbar dot com click on supermini


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## Philbert (Mar 5, 2015)

heyduke said:


> . . . if you replace a 3/8" chain with a 3/8" lp you will gain cutting speed due to higher rpm. . . .





SAWMIKAZE said:


> It all makes sense the 3/8 picco would cut faster it has less to pull. . . .



I'm going to go out on a limb here (no pun intended), and say that would depend somewhat on the saw. In other words, if the powerhead has the HP to pull a full sized 3/8 chain thought a particular log, it will cut faster with the larger teeth, because it is removing more wood with each 'bite'. If the saw bogs down, the smaller teeth might be a better choice.

Same thing applies to the way that people sharpen their chains. More 'hook' might lead to a 'self-feeding' experience with enough HP, but slower cutting, and more tearing, with a smaller powerhead.

In my opinion, it is matching the powerhead, sprocket, bar, and chain, that optimizes performance for a particular cutting situation.

Philbert


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## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here (no pun intended), and say that would depend somewhat on the saw. In other words, if the powerhead has the HP to pull a full sized 3/8 chain thought a particular log, it will cut faster with the larger teeth,* because it is removing more wood* with each 'bite'. If the saw bogs down, the smaller teeth might be a better choice.
> 
> Same thing applies to the way that people sharpen their chains. More 'hook' might lead to a 'self-feeding' experience with enough HP, but slower cutting, and more tearing, with a smaller powerhead.
> 
> ...



Philbert

i agree that it is removing more wood but that's because it's cutting a wider kerf which requires more btu/second. with a narrow kerf chain, like lo pro,you're removing less wood but cutting faster. also, it's easier to keep chain speed up where it belongs. these are all hyotheses supported by anecdotal rather than experimental data of course. there is a whole new class of chain called "narrow kerf." it's mostly .325" x .43. i've seen it on some small stihls and it supposedly requires 20% less hp. i'm not interested in it because i would have to spend another $350 for a roll. but i already keep a roll of lo pro for my top handles.

i agree about matching all components but when it comes to a 50cc saw, a size i seldom use, to me lo pro is an appropriate choice of chain. i'd use it with a 7 dl rim because that's what i use on all my saws, K.I.S.S. when i'm working, which is getting to be less often, i don't like to think about saws.


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## Philbert (Mar 5, 2015)

I use narrow kerf on a Husqvarna saw, because it came with it. Cuts fine for my use, but the bar is a bit more flexible, if that matters to the user.

My comments were meant in a general sense - lot of guys want to put 3/8 chain on a saw that came with .325, or put .404 chain on a saw that came with 3/8. It depends on if the saw has the power to pull the larger chain. If it doesn't, it will not cut faster. If it does, smaller chain might never keep up with the saw's potential. There are a few saws that might be 'on the cusp' - could run either chain. Sometimes that depends on the type of cutting: smaller branches might favor the smoother cutting of smaller pitch chain; bucking big logs might benefit from a slightly wider kerf.

JMHO

Philbert


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/getting-serious-about-lo-pro.121746/
> 
> Awhile back i did some research on this subject and 3/8 sprocket nose will NOT work with LP chain however the rim sprocket WILL work. It doesnt line up perfectly and will cause some extra wear on the chain and rim. To my knowledge there is no LP rim for standard small spline. Stihl has it for their mini spline though.



The P series Picco rims fit the 024/026 clutch drums. I thought that was a small spline. I thought that the mini spline was for the 1123 series saws, which Stihl also has a rim and drum for now (my 211 will take one, and it fits the 1123 series saws as well). There are also Oregon drums and rims in various sizes, and they do not interchange with the Stihl ones. Its confusing 

My 026 3/8 Picco rim is a larger diameter than my 026 3/8 std. rim. No slop. For the large Stihl saws, like 361, 440, etc. the chainsaw milling guys that I knew used the 3/8 spur sprocket drives for Picco and not a rim drive.


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2015)

heyduke said:


> i doubt it. scammers don't cry. also, i haven't done the research yet but i suspect the cannon bars he's using are a response to millers for longer lo pro bars. logosol sells similar bars but the are costly. some of the suppositions in that thread are probably incorrect too, especially that lo pro can't cut faster than 3/8". i'll tell you from my experience that if you replace a 3/8" chain with a 3/8" lp you will gain cutting speed due to higher rpm. also, i'll debate that you can run lo pro with a 3/8" nose sprocket. my experience has been that lo pro chain will bind due to the drive links climbing up on the sprocket teeth. don't take my word for it try it yourself. if i have some time today, unlikely, i will make a vid of my jshred 525 running lo pro (with a lo pro nose sprocket on a 20" guide bar.)



No one ever said that low profile does not cut faster than 3/8 standard here. I can and will say the opposite with my 026. I can also say that Picco ran faster than .325 on my 025 saws. The issue is running ridiculously long bars with Picco on smaller saws, as Piltz sells, and running Picco on large saws with long bars that can easily break that chain. Logosol USED to sell Stihl large format low profile bars in the US. No longer. I called them and asked. Stihl western region does not have them either, but there are some Stihl dealers that still have 16" 3003 Picco bars in stock in the Midwest and the eastern states. Baileys also lists them for a small fortune. No one in the states that I am aware of sells a large format 18" or 20" Stihl Picco bar. You may find one on Ebay. They can easily be bought in Europe and the UK though, along with Logosol bars.

As for 3/8 std. (or .325) vs. Picco chain speed, that is not the main reason that Picco/low profile cuts faster. The main reason that low profile cuts faster is that the kerf is narrower. You are cutting less wood, so it cuts faster. The chain speed will be higher because there is less drag.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 5, 2015)

Sounds like someone could make some money by selling a 3/8, low profile, replacement nose sprocket to fit other 0.050 gauge bars.

Philbert


----------



## fordf150 (Mar 5, 2015)

standard small spline vs stihl mini spline and the difference in diameter between picco rim and standard 3/8 rim


----------



## cobey (Mar 5, 2015)

heyduke said:


> so what i hear is you modified a 041 bar to work as an 095. that's good, but we're talking about the other end, the nose sprocket. in my experience nose sprockets for 3/8" and lo pro don't work with both. am i missing something? thanks.


 you can get a 3/8 lo pro nose sprocket on an 041 (small poulan mount) ................ like a wild thing bar..............
with the lo pro it comes to a point where it hits a wall on speed ... but with a reg 3/8 rim and a 16" 041 mount
lo pro bar and a 57 dl , 3/8 .050 lo pro chain it works and cuts, i dont feel like its worth the trouble
for a hotrod saw ( it was faster with big 3/8 race chain) , on a stock saw it kinda cuts like full chisel .325, i timed several cuts with each chain
times were close stihl ps was a little faster than .325 full chisel


----------



## CR888 (Mar 5, 2015)

a


windthrown said:


> For one, Oregon does not compete with Carlton any more, because they are both owned by Blount here in Portland, Oregon now.
> 
> I got into low profile long ago after hearing about it from some of the chainsaw milling people here on AS. They were using Logosol low profile bars on 70cc saws for milling, because of the narrow kerf and because large saws tend to overheat using 3/8s standard B&C for milling. While those saws can oil a long bar, you really have to be careful running that setup because the chain is not designed to deal with that kind of torque. But they ran it. For a very short tirdmeddd Stihl sold large mount Picco bars on the 024, but stopped after about 6 months in the US. Seemingly they did that to avoid liability issues after they figured out that guys were running them on much larger saws. At one time Logosol also sold large mount low profile B&C for Stihl saws for milling, from 16 to 20 inch. The also no longer sell them in the US, also seemingly for liability reason.
> 
> ...





windthrown said:


> No one ever said that low profile does not cut faster than 3/8 standard here. I can and will say the opposite with my 026. I can also say that Picco ran faster than .325 on my 025 saws. The issue is running ridiculously long bars with Picco on smaller saws, as Piltz sells, and running Picco on large saws with long bars that can easily break that chain. Logosol USED to sell Stihl large format low profile bars in the US. No longer. I called them and asked. Stihl western region does not have them either, but there are some Stihl dealers that still have 16" 3003 Picco bars in stock in the Midwest and the eastern states. Baileys also lists them for a small fortune. No one in the states that I am aware of sells a large format 18" or 20" Stihl Picco bar. You may find one on Ebay. They can easily be bought in Europe and the UK though, along with Logosol bars.
> 
> As for 3/8 std. (or .325) vs. Picco chain speed, that is not the main reason that Picco/low profile cuts faster. The main reason that low profile cuts faster is that the kerf is narrower. You are cutting less wood, so it cuts faster. The chain speed will be higher because there is less drag.


l think you need to get some veneer calibers and get a bunch of chains and actually measure all the components. You may be surprized at what you find and possibly how standard 3/8 chain has no strength benefit over lo pro chains. Things are different between brands and also old/new chain. I run 20" 404 on my hopped up 660 but l have run PS picco for giggles with good results but l find at some point with enough power....ya just need more chain. My main problem with lo pro is its durability qualities, once you start running it on 50+cc saws in really hard wood you give the cutters and drive tangs a real hard time.


----------



## riley1056 (Mar 5, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Groan. Holman Trees. He cut 2 MILLION trees in what was it, 20 years time? Gary and I figured it out and he would have to have cut 400 trees a day (250 work days a year) to deck that many trees. That is 50 trees an hour for 20 years straight! No down time. No ice storms. No holidays off. Full 8 hour days. Only 2 weeks vacation a year. Quite the machine! Not... he was banned from AS for life for making threats in PMs to people. He is still a legend in his own mind over on Butch's master blaster site.
> 
> 
> Lmao that's some funny ****.


----------



## heyduke (Mar 5, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I use narrow kerf on a Husqvarna saw, because it came with it. Cuts fine for my use, but the bar is a bit more flexible, if that matters to the user.
> 
> My comments were meant in a general sense - lot of guys want to put 3/8 chain on a saw that came with .325, or put .404 chain on a saw that came with 3/8. It depends on if the saw has the power to pull the larger chain. If it doesn't, it will not cut faster. If it does, smaller chain might never keep up with the saw's potential. There are a few saws that might be 'on the cusp' - could run either chain. Sometimes that depends on the type of cutting: smaller branches might favor the smoother cutting of smaller pitch chain; bucking big logs might benefit from a slightly wider kerf.
> 
> ...



Philbert-

i always pay close attention to your posts and when your observations differ from mine that's fine. i hauled out the old jonsered today. it had been sitting in the back of the shop for more than a year since it was last run. the chain is still timberline sharp but the carb needed serious tuning. the surprise for me is that the bar, which i bought maybe 5 years ago isn't a 20" 095 but a 14". seems like my memory is good for about ten minutes max these days. i cut some cookies with it after tuning, ponderosa pine that was the same diameter as the bar. my camera's batteries were discharged so there is no visual record. generally i was disappointed with the performance, but i'm not used to 50cc saws. except for top handles i mostly use 70cc and up. anyway, a sharp 3/8" chain is hard to beat. maybe we're thinking too much. by the way, i might put 3/8" on a .325 equipped saw because i don't keep a roll of .325.


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## Rx7man (Mar 6, 2015)

I would guess (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the _cutting _of the grain, the action the side plates do that require the most power, the top plate has more of a peeling action.. So while a narrower kerf is going to require less power, it might not be as much less as you'd think.

It certainly is a balancing act.. between filing type, angles, raker depth, pitch, sprocket size, bar length, saw power, and saw torque, and last but certainly not least, the wood!


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## Rx7man (Mar 6, 2015)

Oh, I was also wondering.. I have an old Winsor 27" 3/8th bar, is that too small for the PP4218? would it be better suited to the Poulan 25cva? I'll take pictures!


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 6, 2015)

Just say no to low pro! Lol


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## windthrown (Mar 6, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Just say no to low pro! Lol



Mini Me says that is not funny!


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## heyduke (Mar 6, 2015)

Rx7man said:


> I would guess (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the _cutting _of the grain, the action the side plates do that require the most power, the top plate has more of a peeling action.. So while a narrower kerf is going to require less power, it might not be as much less as you'd think.
> 
> It certainly is a balancing act.. between filing type, angles, raker depth, pitch, sprocket size, bar length, saw power, and saw torque, and last but certainly not least, the wood!



where i live we have a saying:

"no esta el saruche. esta el hombre."

"it isn't the saw. it's the man."


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 6, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Mini Me says that is not funny!
> View attachment 409166


Did mini me make the low pro or the picco?
Is mini me Piltz's dad? Lol


----------



## Terry Syd (Mar 6, 2015)

Rx7man said:


> I would guess (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the _cutting _of the grain, the action the side plates do that require the most power, the top plate has more of a peeling action.. So while a narrower kerf is going to require less power, it might not be as much less as you'd think.



I think some of the speed of the Narrow Kerf type chains comes from having thinner cutters. A regular .325 chain cutter is 1.25mm thick, while a .325 NK cutter is 1mm thick. An analogy would be using a wood chisel - a thinner wood chisel will go into the wood easier than a thicker wood chisel.


----------



## Ray Bell (Mar 6, 2015)

Windthrown, drove by the Rose City on my way to Albany today. What unbelievable weather you are having. It must have been close to 70*. Actually turned the ac on in car as the sun beating through the window was toasty, and no I did not stop to look up Piltz!!


----------



## Philbert (Mar 6, 2015)

Terry Syd said:


> I think some of the speed of the Narrow Kerf type chains comes from having thinner cutters. A regular .325 chain cutter is 1.25mm thick, while a .325 NK cutter is 1mm thick. An analogy would be using a wood chisel - a thinner wood chisel will go into the wood easier than a thicker wood chisel.



Narrow kerf blades have been popular in woodworking (e.g. table saws) for some time, for similar reasons. Make the saw perform as if it has more power. Also wastes less of the wood (important if using expensive cabinet grade woods).

Philbert


----------



## Rx7man (Mar 6, 2015)

I think saving wood is probably the biggest benefit, though if the wood is valuable, you shouldn't be repeatedly cutting it with a chainsaw! My experience has always been that the narrower kerf always got me CLOSER to getting one more piece, but I never EVER got it!


----------



## Rx7man (Mar 6, 2015)

Oh, and next bagged out straight-gassed 60cc saw that comes through here is going to get a nice 16" .325 NK chain and flogged at an auction.. no one can tell it isn't making any power, it's still cutting!


----------



## windthrown (Mar 6, 2015)

Ray Bell said:


> Windthrown, drove by the Rose City on my way to Albany today. What unbelievable weather you are having. It must have been close to 70*. Actually turned the ac on in car as the sun beating through the window was toasty, and no I did not stop to look up Piltz!!



Yah, I threatened to move to California last year with my cat, because it was so cold here last year with the Arctic Vortex. This year California has come to Oregon. We had the warmest October, December, January and February on record this year. Lowest snowpack ever recorded this year in the Cascades. It was 61 here today. Supposed to get into the 70s here this weekend. Best year I can ever remember here by a long shot. Next best was about 10 years ago when I moved in with my ex.

As for the PiltzTard, just flip him off as you drive by. Stop at Madsens up in WA instead.


----------



## olyman (Mar 6, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> That hurt Oly.


 wasn't speaking about you at all,,and you know it....


----------



## windthrown (Mar 6, 2015)

Don't worry about it Oly. SS has a hide as thick as uranium depleted tank armor.


----------



## olyman (Mar 7, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Don't worry about it Oly. SS has a hide as thick as uranium depleted tank armor.


  ruuhhhuummmmbaaaaaaa~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mdavlee (Mar 7, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> If these lo-pro chains arent designed for anything over 40cc why is cannon making long bars to accept these picco chains ? That would make them as dumb as him correct ?
> 
> Is oregons picco rim kit different from stihls ? Did i read in this thread or somewhere else they were different ?


Some people are having good luck milling with it. If the bars didn't cost so much I'd try a 32" setup to run on my 046.


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 7, 2015)

Maybe Piltz installs the tips himself on the cannon bars.


----------



## Franny K (Mar 7, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> standard small spline vs stihl mini spline and the difference in diameter between picco rim and standard 3/8 rim


There are some generic mini spline 3/8 sprockets that are essentially the same size as that full size 3/8. If I recall a .325 7 tooth mini spline and a .325 Oregon small spline one came out perhaps 8 thousands of an inch different. Another thing to measure is has the side with the cut outs shrunk vs the other one.


----------



## Franny K (Mar 7, 2015)

CR888 said:


> a
> 
> 
> l think you need to get some veneer calibers and get a bunch of chains and actually measure all the components. You may be surprized at what you find and possibly how standard 3/8 chain has no strength benefit over lo pro chains. Things are different between brands and also old/new chain. I run 20" 404 on my hopped up 660 but l have run PS picco for giggles with good results but l find at some point with enough power....ya just need more chain. My main problem with lo pro is its durability qualities, once you start running it on 50+cc saws in really hard wood you give the cutters and drive tangs a real hard time.



Might I suggest you get out the chain brake or grinder and dis assemble and measure. What I have found is the Stihl 63 class picco that is the 0.050 is getting close to 0.325 NK in the pivot points quite a bit more than the oregon/carlton stuff. Normal 0.325 is more robust and full size 3/8 calls for a different anvil on the spinner. Don't forget to measure the tie strap in two dimensions, not the length way.

There seems some problems on Stihl's website as they call for all of their picco good for, not stated limited to, 2.0 hp. and nothing in the paper color catalog. A ms 251 is 45.6cc and claimed 2.95 hp I believe and that is as large as I can see them specifying the 63 class picco for at least in this market. I believe without checking Oregon calls it quits for their 91 class 3/8 lo pro at 42cc.


----------



## o8f150 (Mar 7, 2015)

well guys I got him to build me one and here it is,,, hard to tell but it wearing a 24" b/c


----------



## Franny K (Mar 7, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> So you could run picco on a standard 3/8 setup you just need the proper bar is the conclusion ?


Just from looking at the wear in the rim sprocket and how it is not that big a contact area I wouldn't really recommend it for anything more than just barely strong enough to pull 7 teeth. The contact area is smaller than on a 6 tooth spur sprocket. I have not tried beyond 2.4 hp or so. I have read of turning down 0.404 sprockets and if one really wants to exceed the design of the picco chain that may be better but one needs standard not small 7 spline to get one of those.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 7, 2015)

Stihl recommends and sells large format Picco B&C 16" kits in Europe for the 261, which is a 50cc saw with 3.8 HP. The kit has a bar, loop and rim. They do not sell that kit here in the states. They did sell that kit on the 024 briefly in the US. The 024 had 2.9 HP. I have run my 026 with a 260 P&C (~3.6 HP) with a 16" Stihl 3003 bar and aggressive PS Picco chain for a couple dozen tanks of gas and there is hardly any stretch at all. I am running it with a Stihl P-7 rim. I have not had any problems running it. It would likely run an 18" fine as well, but those bars are impossible to find in the US. I got my 16" for $35 here in the states. PN for large format Stihl Picco E series laminated bars with the correct nose sprockets for low profile/Picco chain:

16" 3003 000 6313
18" 3003 000 6317
20" 3003 000 6321

I also swapped the stock .325 B&C on all my 025/250 saws to Picco B&C, with 16" and 18". I ran Carlton LP semi-chisel non-safety chain on them. They were small format and had ~3.1 HP. I never had any problems with them and they cut faster than with .325. I could never find a rim drive for Picco on any 1123 saws then and I used spur sprockets on them. Stihl now has a Picco rim drive kit that will fit the 1123 series (021/210-025/250) and the 1138 (171/181/211) series saws. PN: 1123 007 1030 They have 7 pin rim drives. The only 6 pin rim I have been able to find is from China. I am not sure if that is an Oregon or a Stihl rim format though. For now I am stuill using the 6 spur sprocket that came on my 211, as I do not want to run 7 pin rim on that saw.


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 7, 2015)

windthrown said:


> ..... They have 7 pin rim drives. The only 6 pin rim I have been able to find is from China. I am not sure if that is an Oregon or a Stihl rim format though. For now I am stuill using the 6 spur sprocket that came on my 211, as I do not want to run 7 pin rim on that saw.



I'm pretty sure a 6-pin 3/8" Picco rim is impossible on a small 7-spline drum, so it has to be a mini 7-spline one (Stihl).

Be aware that Picco bars (actually all bars except for Cannom C1 bars) for the MS250 (3005 mount) are much shorter than "called" - the 18" ones are barely over 16"...


----------



## towingace (Mar 7, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Yah, I threatened to move to California last year with my cat, because it was so cold here last year with the Arctic Vortex. This year California has come to Oregon. We had the warmest October, December, January and February on record this year. Lowest snowpack ever recorded this year in the Cascades. It was 61 here today. Supposed to get into the 70s here this weekend. Best year I can ever remember here by a long shot. Next best was about 10 years ago when I moved in with my ex.
> 
> As for the PiltzTard, just flip him off as you drive by. Stop at Madsens up in WA instead.


You would need a lowboy to move that big azz Cat.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 8, 2015)

Hey, he is only 26 pounds! Twice as big as my baby grand niece, and 3x as big as my ex's lap mutt. That's a half wine barrel for perspective.


----------



## towingace (Mar 8, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Hey, he is only 26 pounds! Twice as big as my baby grand niece, and 3x as big as my ex's lap mutt. That's a half wine barrel for perspective.
> 
> 
> View attachment 409723


He looks nearly identical to a big ol tabby we had years ago.

I was pissed when he put paw tracks all the way down the new sidewalk to the shop. Ya can't hardly see them anymore, I wish he was here to make some new ones.


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 8, 2015)

o8f150 said:


> well guys I got him to build me one and here it is,,, hard to tell but it wearing a 24" b/c



WTF are you doing?


----------



## KenJax Tree (Mar 8, 2015)

He's filling the recoil on the splitter with chips.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 8, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> WTF are you doing?


Using the splitter as a log vise to cut cookies.

Philbert


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 8, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Using the splitter as a log vise to cut cookies.
> 
> Philbert


I Know.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 8, 2015)

towingace said:


> He looks nearly identical to a big ol tabby we had years ago.
> 
> I was pissed when he put paw tracks all the way down the new sidewalk to the shop. Ya can't hardly see them anymore, I wish he was here to make some new ones.



This cat did that in the concrete floor patches in the garage. I laughed it off and left them there for grins. Signed for eternity.


----------



## o8f150 (Mar 8, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> WTF are you doing?


cutting coasters for the coffee table


----------



## STIHLTHEDEERE (Mar 8, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> He's filling the recoil on the splitter with chips.


 i just spit my beer all over my laptop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was funny....................


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 8, 2015)

o8f150 said:


> cutting coasters for the coffee table


That's what it looked like


----------



## windthrown (Mar 8, 2015)

STIHLTHEDEERE said:


> i just spit my beer all over my laptop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was funny....................



Was it PILTZner?


----------



## STIHLTHEDEERE (Mar 8, 2015)

windthrown said:


> Was it PILTZner?


 no , not this time


----------



## bplust (Mar 8, 2015)

A "piltzner" surely is a unique beer. It only comes in 72oz cans and is 1.3% abv. The only correct way to drink it is through a 3/64" diameter crazy straw.


----------



## towingace (Mar 8, 2015)

bplust said:


> A "piltzner" surely is a unique beer. It only comes in 72oz cans and is 1.3% abv. The only correct way to drink it is through a 3/64" diameter crazy straw.


We're talkin' BIG saws & REALLY BIG beers!


----------



## bplust (Mar 8, 2015)

Yep.. Neither of which gets much done. I guess the big barely alcoholic beer will confirm as to whether your bladder's working or not...


----------



## Piltz (Aug 4, 2017)

Gypo Logger said:


> I bet his wife thinks he's quite studley. Lol
> Mr. Turdliness is trying to corner the shelf queen market.


His wife is his Indonesian slave! She's probably forced to revere him. She came from a home with dirt floors and did anything to get into the U.S.


----------



## Piltz (Aug 4, 2017)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You are probably just jealous, Scott, because Mr. Piltz is extra cool. Look at him, he just look like a ninja with his naked feet and posture
> 
> He's obviously a great specialist! (or not...)



He probably just crawled out of bed and threw his pants on for the picture, then went back to bed.
I probably shouldn't be trashing him on here as I'm actually stooping down to his level. Last thing I want is to turn out like him, as he said the same about his father. Unfortunately he did turn out like his father, I feel doomed already!


----------



## pioneerguy600 (Aug 4, 2017)

All the alarm bells are ringing and red lights flashing! All I have to say at this moment but watching I will.


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Aug 4, 2017)

I'd kinda like to know how many saws he gets returned for false advertising. I can't imagine a Stihl 170 with a 28" bar being much use except clearing brush.


----------



## CentaurG2 (Aug 4, 2017)

Seems to be a lot of saw modder chum in the waters recently. Must be Shark Week.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs


----------



## lone wolf (Aug 4, 2017)

CentaurG2 said:


> Seems to be a lot of saw modder chum in the waters recently. Must be Shark Week.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs


No rifles or 12 ga slugs on board?


----------



## CentaurG2 (Aug 4, 2017)

I think Quint was armed with an M1 Garand and a Greener Whaling harpoon gun. Chief Brody had a S&W model 19 or 28.


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Aug 4, 2017)

Over 2000 for one chainsaw? I think I'd just pay someone to cut all my trees and it would be cheaper...


----------



## Westboastfaller (Aug 4, 2017)

Piltz said:


> His wife is his Indonesian slave! She's probably forced to revere him. She came from a home with dirt floors and did anything to get into the U.S.


Thats a shame.
One thing I learnt a long time ago,
'You' NEVER Take the monkey out of the tree.


----------



## svk (Aug 4, 2017)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I'd kinda like to know how many saws he gets returned for false advertising. I can't imagine a Stihl 170 with a 28" bar being much use except clearing brush.


Probably like Amsoil warranty claims. 100 percent of problems are user error.


----------



## cary911 (Aug 6, 2017)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You are probably just jealous, Scott, because Mr. Piltz is extra cool. Look at him, he just look like a ninja with his naked feet and posture
> 
> He's obviously a great specialist! (or not...)



****, lol. I'm at a loos for words ... the barefoot thing.

"He's always barefoot" or sandals ... "Strange cat to communicate with though"


----------



## cary911 (Aug 6, 2017)

I can't find...other than "naked feet" a (Cannon 32" low-pro)

I believe they discontinued it according to "Baileys & Cannon" ?


----------



## SweetpeaDave (Aug 7, 2017)

Let's get this out of the way 1st as I'm not a professional logger, I'm Joe home renter & i see that it's fun to bash the piltz guy as this thread has been going 2yrs, it's like seeing a fight & running over & getting a couple kicks in as Well & not even sure why? I have a piltz rim drive 18" kit on my ms 171 & it's a [email protected] ripper compared to the stock 16" skinny chain that came on it, I love it! There I said it


----------



## Philbert (Aug 7, 2017)

SweetpeaDave said:


> I have a piltz rim drive 18" kit on my ms 171 & it's a [email protected] ripper compared to the stock 16" skinny chain that came on it, I love it!


What kind of wood are you cutting with it?

Philbert


----------



## Jed1124 (Aug 7, 2017)




----------



## CentaurG2 (Aug 7, 2017)

SweetpeaDave said:


> Let's get this out of the way 1st as I'm not a professional logger, I'm Joe home renter & i see that it's fun to bash the piltz guy as this thread has been going 2yrs, it's like seeing a fight & running over & getting a couple kicks in as Well & not even sure why? I have a piltz rim drive 18" kit on my ms 171 & it's a [email protected] ripper compared to the stock 16" skinny chain that came on it, I love it! There I said it



It’s a forum classic. As bagel tree used to call it “dogpile on the rabbit”. It’s all in good fun.... until someone loses their income stream.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym31m_9iErY


----------



## Philbert (Aug 7, 2017)

CentaurG2 said:


> It’s a forum classic. As bagel tree used to call it “dogpile on the rabbit”. It’s all in good fun.... until someone loses their income stream.


Unless an item / service is overhyped, misrepresented, etc., to the point of being fraudulent; then it is called something else.



Philbert


----------



## CentaurG2 (Aug 7, 2017)

It’s called pool?? Or 67 trombones or 110 cornets??


----------



## Homelitexl903 (Aug 7, 2017)

SweetpeaDave said:


> Let's get this out of the way 1st as I'm not a professional logger, I'm Joe home renter & i see that it's fun to bash the piltz guy as this thread has been going 2yrs, it's like seeing a fight & running over & getting a couple kicks in as Well & not even sure why? I have a piltz rim drive 18" kit on my ms 171 & it's a [email protected] ripper compared to the stock 16" skinny chain that came on it, I love it! There I said it


 Hmmm New member that just joined and his first 3 posts in 2 different threads are defending Piltz and also talking about how amazing of a ripper his 30cc 1 something horsepower plastic homeowner 171 saw is with the Piltz kit. I think this is Piltz himself trolling.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 7, 2017)

Homelitexl903 said:


> . . . also talking about how amazing of a ripper his 30cc 1 something horsepower plastic homeowner 171 saw is with the Piltz kit. I think this is Piltz himself trolling.


Not necessarily.

If this is the first saw he has ever used / owned, and if he noticed a significant increase in chain_ speed_ with the Pilz mod, he may be duly impressed. If he tries to cut some bigger wood with it that requires _torque_, then compares it to another saw, he would notice the difference. That is why I asked him what kind of wood he cuts with it.

Not a lot different than a lot of guys on this site who start out with a modest chainsaw, and are perfectly pleased with it, until they attend a GTG and try someone's modded, large cube creation, and walk away with a permanent grin, and a persistent CAD infection.

@SweetpeaDave is from Levitttown, PA; someone please invite him to a local GTG event, and let him try some other saws. I know that a lot of guys would _love_ to try his Pilz 171!

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 7, 2017)

If you are over in Wisconsin: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/monkey-fest-2017.308360/

Philbert


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Aug 7, 2017)

I've heard of homeowner saws but honestly never heard of home renter saws....


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Aug 7, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> If this is the first saw he has ever used / owned, and if he noticed a significant increase in chain_ speed_ with the Pilz mod, he may be duly impressed. If he tries to cut some bigger wood with it that requires _torque_, then compares it to another saw, he would notice the difference. That is why I asked him what kind of wood he cuts with it.
> 
> ...



"Best Answer"


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 7, 2017)

SweetpeaDave said:


> Let's get this out of the way 1st as I'm not a professional logger, I'm Joe home renter & i see that it's fun to bash the piltz guy as this thread has been going 2yrs, it's like seeing a fight & running over & getting a couple kicks in as Well & not even sure why? I have a piltz rim drive 18" kit on my ms 171 & it's a [email protected] ripper compared to the stock 16" skinny chain that came on it, I love it! There I said it


And again, I never heard F'n ripper and MS171 used in the same sentence.


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 7, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> If this is the first saw he has ever used / owned, and if he noticed a significant increase in chain_ speed_ with the Pilz mod, he may be duly impressed. If he tries to cut some bigger wood with it that requires _torque_, then compares it to another saw, he would notice the difference. That is why I asked him what kind of wood he cuts with it.
> 
> ...





Adirondackstihl said:


> "Best Answer"


Agreed.


----------



## KiwiBro (Aug 7, 2017)

Philbert said:


> @SweetpeaDave is from Levitttown, PA; someone please invite him to a local GTG event, and let him try some other saws. I know that a lot of guys would _love_ to try his Pilz 171!
> 
> Philbert


What odds would you give for him turning up if so invited, and with his hot saw?


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 7, 2017)

Now I've used POS and MS250 in the same sentence a lot.


----------



## Westboastfaller (Aug 7, 2017)

KiwiBro said:


> What odds would you give for him turning up if so invited, and with his hot saw?


IDK
I haven't made comment on the matter.
I have a few questions.
Firstly: I'm wondering about the tail spread on these bars supplied. Do they compare with the k 095 mount such as you see on a 262xp or 357xp?
The chain goes on and off way of the chain adjuster?
Sprocket pitch and sizes?


----------



## Philbert (Aug 7, 2017)

KiwiBro said:


> What odds would you give for him turning up if so invited, and with his hot saw?


If he is an open-minded guy, I would be very pleased to have him show up. I'd bet that he would have a good time too!

Of course, I'm the guy who shows up at local GTG's with battery powered saws!

Philbert


----------



## KiwiBro (Aug 7, 2017)

Philbert said:


> If he is an open-minded guy, I would be very pleased to have him show up. I'd bet that he would have a good time too!
> 
> Of course, I'm the guy who shows up at local GTG's with battery powered saws!
> 
> Philbert


You know, I've often wondered if the battery saws would handle higher pin count rims without drawing too much and cooking the batteries. I guess they are current limited to avoid them being too much of a 'hot' saw?


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 7, 2017)

Philbert said:


> If he is an open-minded guy, I would be very pleased to have him show up. I'd bet that he would have a good time too!
> 
> Of course, I'm the guy who shows up at local GTG's with battery powered saws!
> 
> Philbert


I had an electric one at the last one I went to and raced a husky 359. I lost big time.lol


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Aug 7, 2017)

I just got done repairing a 359 Husky and tested it a bit...no way an electric could keep up with it!


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 7, 2017)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I just got done repairing a 359 Husky and tested it a bit...no way an electric could keep up with it!


It was all done as a joke, I challenged him long before the GTG, Everyone knew the little homelite didn't stand a chance. but it was all in fun. it was 8 degrees that morning. we needed a laugh.lol


----------



## grizz55chev (Aug 7, 2017)

CentaurG2 said:


> It’s called pool?? Or 67 trombones or 110 cornets??


76 trombones.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 7, 2017)

KiwiBro said:


> I've often wondered if the battery saws would handle higher pin count rims without drawing too much and cooking the batteries.


One of the reps mentioned this in one of the battery saw threads. He said that he could put a larger sprocket on the saw, to boost chain speed (motor RPM would not change) closer to what users of 2-cycle saws expect, but that it would reduce the number of cuts per charge, due to the added draw (more amps required to compensate for lost torque).

I think that it it best to optimize battery saws for the niche that they are good at, rather than trying to make them cut 'like' other saws. Back to the Piltz guy: I think that the MS171 is an OK saw in the niche that they are designed for, rather than trying to make them cut like a MS271 or MS391.

Philbert


----------



## Deleted member 149229 (Aug 7, 2017)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I've heard of homeowner saws but honestly never heard of home renter saws....



http://m.shutterstock.com/images/524802643


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 8, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> If this is the first saw he has ever used / owned, and if he noticed a significant increase in chain_ speed_ with the Pilz mod, he may be duly impressed. If he tries to cut some bigger wood with it that requires _torque_, then compares it to another saw, he would notice the difference. That is why I asked him what kind of wood he cuts with it.
> 
> ...


With the kit he got a new chain........may be the first time he cut with a sharp chain.......and he is welcome to try any of my saws. 

Let him see......


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Aug 8, 2017)

I stand corrected...


----------



## bikemike (Aug 8, 2017)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You are probably just jealous, Scott, because Mr. Piltz is extra cool. Look at him, he just look like a ninja with his naked feet and posture
> 
> He's obviously a great specialist! (or not...)


Everybody was kung-fu felling. There are faster than contra lighting


----------



## bikemike (Aug 8, 2017)

windthrown said:


> I do not have high blood pressure. Nor does Mr. Piltz really bother me any more. Its just that every time I log into Ebay and look at his stuff, the statements are longer than ever before and even more full of BS. It seems that he thinks that the more BS he posts, the more real it will become. As for posing shoeless with saws stuck into my deck, meh... I was into Aikido for about 4 years when I was younger. I am into guns for self defense now.
> 
> Here is some more insane crap he has for sale. He has these posted for a MS170/180 chainsaw (stab stab!). I cannot imagine a plastic engine case dealing with that kind of leverage. Imagine the torque from a long bar on a 170 with these PILTZ dawgs... snap!
> 
> View attachment 408160


Dat dog got sum reel krooked toofs


----------



## CentaurG2 (Aug 8, 2017)

grizz55chev said:


> 76 trombones.



No it aint, but you gotta to know the territory.


----------



## 460cixy (Dec 12, 2017)

This thread is to fukin funny


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 12, 2017)

460cixy said:


> This thread is to fukin funny


Haters gonna hate.......lol
It is a hoot......
How ya doin?


----------



## 460cixy (Dec 12, 2017)

Yeah good. Just can't beleave people get taken in by his ******** fools and money are easily parted


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 13, 2017)

DOUBLE THE PERFORMANCE OR NO MONEY BACK!!!!!




Well......gee....okay!!!!


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Dec 13, 2017)

I just wonder how they get so much money from their saws, or do they?


----------



## jazavac (Aug 19, 2018)

Hello

Anybody knowes Mr Piltz adress or e-mail adress? I am looking for Piltz felling spikes for Husky 545

Thank you


----------



## Little Al (Aug 19, 2018)

jazavac said:


> Hello
> 
> Anybody knowes Mr Piltz adress or e-mail adress? I am looking for Piltz felling spikes for Husky 545
> 
> Thank you


He trades or did on Ebay .com under the name Kevlar Gaffs or if you type in Stihl race chain it will bring up his sales thought he only messed up Stihls


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## jazavac (Aug 19, 2018)

Thank you for this info
Mostly Stigla. Yes

Do you know where to look for Husky 545 bigger robust felling spikes?

Thank you


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## cary911 (Aug 19, 2018)

Rx7man said:


> A bit like this? I went the wrong way on the gearing though.. I went with a 13-52, he'd recommend a 15-42
> View attachment 408293



Jesus christ .................................. I didn't even see this!


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## cary911 (Aug 19, 2018)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You are probably just jealous, Scott, because Mr. Piltz is extra cool. Look at him, he just look like a ninja with his naked feet and posture
> 
> He's obviously a great specialist! (or not...)




had to revisit the entire 17 pages for "this" (i'm lmao, everyone's asking "what are you on Dan"?) ............................................................................. Hiya!


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## TBS (Aug 19, 2018)

You have to be pretty stupid to pay 700 for an ms180.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163207477586

Putz has multiple ebay accounts with the same item at different prices.


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## a. palmer jr. (Aug 19, 2018)

TheBrushSlasher said:


> You have to be pretty stupid to pay 700 for an ms180.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163207477586
> 
> Putz has multiple ebay accounts with the same item at different prices.


 Yeah but it's a hot saw...


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## svk (Dec 2, 2019)

Looks like he is still doing his thing, has about 700 items for sale


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## Deleted member 117362 (Dec 2, 2019)

svk said:


> Looks like he is still doing his thing, has about 700 items for sale


Marketing for him = Scammer.


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## svk (Dec 2, 2019)

If he wasn't so full of BS he would probably get more sales too.....I cant imagine many folks who visit any of the saw forums and have read these threads would buy from him unless absolutely necessary.


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## a. palmer jr. (Dec 2, 2019)

Philbert said:


> How about his oversized sprockets - has anyone used them? Feedback?
> 
> Philbert
> 
> ...


 I have an oversized sprocket on my Super EZ and I'm not a fan of it even with a smaller .325 chain..


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## Remle (Dec 3, 2019)

The thing is that he sells some decent stuff along with the scammy “hot saws”. I’ve ordered chains from him before and they were very competitively priced new Stihl chains. They were shipped promptly too. 

I didn’t really realize who I had ordered from until I saw the invoice, but the chains were as advertised.


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## MacAttack (Dec 3, 2019)

Hahaha... this thread is awesome. 

I know guys that would buy right into this guy's sales pitch. Spend their last dollar on one of those saws, brag it up on Facebook, repeat the insane talking points, and probably slap a Monster Energy Drink sticker on the saw somewhere. Lol


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 3, 2019)

I don’t know why you chumps are so down on the Pulitzer. I bought the hotrod kit from him for my 16” power saw which included the hi-flow fuel filter, high compression spark plug, a couple of power bands and a pair of western dawgs . At no charge he included a green weeny and a Stihl whoopey cushion.
Now it’s hair straight back in the bush!
Just remember, it’s not sawdust, it’s man glitter.


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