# Using a Loader



## AaronB (Oct 11, 2014)

This is probably not the place to ask and admins can move it if they like but I ask all my questions here so here goes because the logs are going to be milled.

I am looking at purchasing a JD 4020 that has a Woods 1012 loader, the lift capacity is rated at 1375 lbs. Maybe that lift capacity is at the top??

Will this tractor/loader combo be able to lift 8 foot logs, anywhere from 18" to 36" in diamter??

I don't need it to be lifted very high, the highest ever would be to get it on a trailer but that wont be all the time. I didn't know if someone here has used something similar to lift logs and have done fine with it. Just as a guide an 8ft White Oak log weighs about 1648 lbs (from what I can find).

Just trying to find out if this tractor is large enough for me to use on logs.
Thanks for any info.


----------



## chads (Oct 11, 2014)

8ft oak logs
18" is about 700 lb
20" 1150lb
28" 2250lb
36" 3710lb

link to calculator http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

If you want to handle anything more than 21"by 8' or so your most likely going to break something at some point if you do it regularly, unless your pushing, pulling or rolling it up a ramp.

A 36" oak log will take a pretty good size tractor like your looking at equipped with appropriate loader to handle it. or maybe a forklift would work.

The loader is undersized for that tractor its more for 20-40 hp tractors. (smallest one they make)
The breakaway capacity is about 3000 lb if your tractor is still running the full 2250 psi on the hydraulics, that's just the first few inches off the ground where the geometry is best for lifting capacity.

loader capacities chart http://www.buffalotractor.com/woods_loaders.htm
Given that it's a heavy 90 hp tractor it will eventually just tear up the loader with big logs if the hydraulics will lift it high enough.
If you had a higher capacity loader on the same tractor I would say no problem.
Chad


----------



## AaronB (Oct 12, 2014)

Chad, thank you for the info, but I mis-spoke on the tractor type, I have been looking at so many I got them confused.

Anyway, the tractor is actually a 1999 JD 4500, which is only 39-40hp, which is why the discrepancy in the loader you pointed out, but for the JD4500 the loader is correct as you stated, I don't know if there are any higher capacity loaders for that size tractor.

I don't plan on lifting logs all the time, even if I did it might only be 6" off the ground, I figure most of the time I would be dragging them, but I was just trying to see if in the off chance I needed to load it on a trailer I could. It doesn't really sound like it.

I have been talking to others and there are a few options for getting the logs on trailers besides lifting them. I could just have ramps on the side of the trailer and use the tractor to push/pull the log up, or I could push the log up the end of the trailer by just driving the tractor up the loading ramps. The logs will be sitting crosswise on the trailer doing the second option but could still work.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Oct 12, 2014)

Don't you think you would be happier with a bigger tractor?? 

Buying too small of a tractor is always a huge mistake, and most folks don't find that out until they have already signed on the dotted line! You have the option to fix that right now!

SR


----------



## AaronB (Oct 12, 2014)

There is also a JD 1520 (1972) with loader, has more HP (around 50 I think) but of course it a larger tractor. Most of the time the tractor will be used for plowing, tilling, gravel work, maybe some dirt. Logs will be a secondary thing and most of the time the logs will be pulled/pushed.

I don't know if I want a tractor as big as the 1520 since it's not as maneuverable for the uses it will mostly be used for, and takes up more room. If someone brought me logs on a trailer I could always just use can't hooks and push them over the edge (how I've been doing it) and the use the tractor to pull them to where I needed.

I am just trying to find the balance between what the tractor will be used for mostly and for instances that will show up only occasionally. If I start getting more logs then maybe I will just have to look at another machine or something.

Thoughts Sawyer Rob?


----------



## AaronB (Oct 12, 2014)

Here are the three that I have been looking at

JD 4020 (1967) 90hp (i think)
JD 1520 (1972) 50hp
JD 4500 (1999) 39hp
JD 3010 55-60hp
JD2020 (1970) 54hp (around)


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Oct 12, 2014)

AaronB said:


> Most of the time the tractor will be used for plowing, tilling, gravel work, maybe some dirt. Logs will be a secondary thing and most of the time the logs will be pulled/pushed.



I think more info is needed... What kind of plowing? Snow? Fields? If fields, how many acres?? If gardens, then forget plowing and invest in a GOOD 3 point rototiller and you won't need a plow or a disc...

I would buy the newest tractor that's in the BEST shape I could, even if it cost me more money......even if I had to save a while longer to get it!

Why is deere your only choice?? Some other brands have better models, for less money...

SR


----------



## chads (Oct 12, 2014)

I would think a 40 hp will do pretty good up to 25" or so.
You could easily pull or push 36 inch wiht it.
If you happen to get a big one.
I have pulled big ones with a 8n.
they are about 20 hp.
the smaller ones are going to be easy to get around with.

If it works for everything else your good.
chad


----------



## AaronB (Oct 12, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I think more info is needed... What kind of plowing? Snow? Fields? If fields, how many acres?? If gardens, then forget plowing and invest in a GOOD 3 point rototiller and you won't need a plow or a disc...
> 
> I would buy the newest tractor that's in the BEST shape I could, even if it cost me more money......even if I had to save a while longer to get it!
> 
> ...



Plowing: garden plowing, (would probably get a rototiller, but might get a plow for free)
Brushhog mowing: I have 40 acres but wouldn't do it all, probably 10 to 20, at least that is what I am saying now.

Deere, just because that is what is popping up the most in my area, parts are easier to get than say, Alice Chalmers, Olivers, etc, especially the older ones that I would get for the same price. I am not stuck on Deere by any means (looks that way) but those are just the best ones that have shown up in doing searches.



chads said:


> I would think a 40 hp will do pretty good up to 25" or so.
> You could easily pull or push 36 inch wiht it.
> If you happen to get a big one.
> I have pulled big ones with a 8n.
> ...



Sounds like you are so going for the 4500, it's the newest, 39hp (close to 40)

Also, all those tractors are 2wd, thoughts on that vs 4wd


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Oct 12, 2014)

2WD vs MFWD, there's no comparison and as the tractor models gets smaller, MFWD is even more important... I wouldn't even consider a compact that didn't have MFWD...

BTW, that pict of the 4500 you posted, it looks to have MFWD to me???

Compacts can be had with quite a bit of HP, but they are light so they NEED MFWD especially if it has a loader on it.

That 4500 REALLY has 33hp, that is 33hp at the PTO and that's the true rating of hp in a tractor. That's how you judge what tiller to buy ect...
I'd forget putting a moulboard plow on a compact, yeaa I've seen guys do it, but the castings on compacts are thin, and they don't take a lot of abuse...a GOOD tiller is a much better way to go...

IF I was you, I'd chose none of the above and I'd be looking for a bit bigger compact... The others pictured are too big and too old...

SR


----------



## AaronB (Oct 12, 2014)

SR, this is what the add said for the tractor:
"1999 John Deere 4500 cmpact tractor, 1226 hours, 39 hp, 4x2 2wd, Yanmar 2.0L 4 cyl diesel, 3 pto, all tires good condition, very servicable and very easy to operate - starts every time. Woods loader connected to tractor hydraulics and joystick. very solid and well cared for"

So I just assumed they put 4wd tires on the front for some reason.

If you don't mind (since I know nothing about tractors), what would you suggest I look at with not wanting to spend more than 12k, I might go 15k but I really didn't want to.

Specs if you can:
HP:
Brand:
Model:

If you have some larger compacts that I can start to look at an maybe search for that would a great help, I am more than overwhelmed looking at all this but it needs to be done. Any model numbers you can give would be great.

Thanks for your time on this.


----------



## abbott295 (Oct 12, 2014)

For some of us, a 1967 John Deere 4020 doesn't sound old, at least until we do the math.


----------



## abbott295 (Oct 12, 2014)

AaronB, If you don't already know about it, tractordata.com has a lot of information on tractors. You find a tractor advertised for sale, look it up there to find horsepower, size, weight, years of manufacture, etc. 

Kubota makes a lot of good tractors in the compact range. They are not the only ones.


----------



## firebrick43 (Oct 12, 2014)

In little tractors mfwd is helpfull but as they get bigger it's less important especially if they have a diff lock. 

I have driven all the tractors shown above but personally own a 2020 with 47 loader(don't know which model is on the picture above) 

If you want to plow the best option to me listed above is the 1520. It has the power adjust wheels which are wonderfull. Also it has a quick attach loader. Loaders are nice when needed but a pain to have on when mowing/plowing/tilling. 

The 2020 has probably a 48 loader which is heavier duty than my 47 but can't be taken on and off in 10 mins. 

Smaller tractors with mfwd are not necessarily more Maneuverable. Neighbor has a 2510?? 25 hp jd mfwd about 2003 time period and it is not more maneuverable than my 2020. The front drive axle on a mfwd tractor can't turn as sharp as a 2wd axle because of the u joints unless it's double jointed like some new holland/ford boomers. 

Also ag tires have more traction than the r4 tires on that 4500 except on hard packed gravel pads or asphalt. They are put on yuppie tractors so they don't imprint on a soft yard as bad but then need mfwd to make up some of the list traction. 

Also the 2020 and 1520 have closed center hydraulics unlike the new jd's and are much heavier built. Most of that era tractors are nicer set up with extending 3 point arms, break away hydraulic couplers and nicer remote valves. The 10 series tractors such as the 3010 should be sayed away from as they had issues with the sleeves and some hydraulic system deficiencies. 

By the 20 series the problems were fixed. I personally think the small tractor design peaked at the 40 series such as a 2940 but the 20 and 30 series are fine. Much better than the Chinese and India built <100hp tractors john deere sells now.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Oct 12, 2014)

Compacts are usually listed at their PEAK hp, it just makes them sound better! lol

PTO hp is what they will really do and a better comparison of HP between tractors.

When it comes to compacts, I wouldn't be afraid to buy a Kioti, (Korean made) Mahindra (made in India) Then there's Massey, CAT, New Holland Boomer, Kubota or a Deere... All of those came from Japan and all are well made compacts.....but they are "compact" tractors, not their heavier built "farm" tractor cousins...

Used Kubota and deere will probably be most expensive... Massey's are usually priced lower, making them a better deal.

Good deals are where you find them, TAKE YOUR TIME and look in your local papers ect... Don't buy something just because you are tired of looking! lol

SR


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Oct 12, 2014)

firebrick43 said:


> Smaller tractors with mfwd are not necessarily more Maneuverable. Neighbor has a 2510?? 25 hp jd mfwd about 2003 time period and it is not more maneuverable than my 2020. The front drive axle on a mfwd tractor can't turn as sharp as a 2wd axle because of the u joints unless it's double jointed like some new holland/ford boomers.



Many Boomers have "Super Steer" and that's what makes them turn short...

Most Kubota's have bevel gears, NOT U-joints and many of them also have "Bi-Speed turn" and that makes them turn even shorter...

SR


----------



## firebrick43 (Oct 12, 2014)

As a post note, if buying a newer compact tractor, even being a john deere fan, it would be a kabota or a boomer, not a deere.


----------



## XSKIER (Oct 12, 2014)

Every day that goes by I love my 25hp '03 4310 with 430 loader more and more. I think it's rated at 1600 pounds on the loader, and 2400 on the three point. The deere E-hydro trans is light years ahead of all other mechanical transmissions. It is unbelievable how nice it is. I gave 13,300 for it last month. Also, loader ratings are given to full height (9 feet), it'll lift a whole lot more to 4 feet.

Theses logs are sopping wet cottonwood, 25-30 inch diameter, 9 feet long. My 'R is rated at 700 lbs on the loader, and couldn't get them off the ground, I had to push them up on the trailer. The 4310 unloaded them with ease. I'd guess they're around 1300 pounds.


----------



## KiwiBro (Oct 13, 2014)

firebrick43 said:


> As a post note, if buying a newer compact tractor, even being a john deere fan, it would be a kabota or a boomer, not a deere.


That's a whole 'nother can-o-worms


----------



## AaronB (Oct 13, 2014)

firebrick43 said:


> As a post note, if buying a newer compact tractor, even being a john deere fan, it would be a kabota or a boomer, not a deere.


 
Know anything about this tractor? 4600 hours seems kind of high (to me anyway), but it is MFWD and has a loader rated at 2500.


----------



## Sam.coots (Oct 13, 2014)

I recently bought a ls tractor. 
Aka nh boomer. The problem is not the loader lift capacity. But the rear end weight. Imo. Hp might be important but the overall weight and frame build matters a lot. I would rather have a tractor that weighed a 1000# more even giving up a few Ponys.


----------



## Mike Van (Oct 13, 2014)

Aaron - If these logs are headed for a mill, yours or someone else's, dirt is going to be your worst enemy. Dragging, pushing, rolling, whatever, logs in the dirt wants to be avoided whenever it can be. Unless you really like sharpening blades. Get a machine big enough to pick 98% of the logs your going to do. If you put forks on the edge of a bucket, you lose a lot of lift capacity.


----------



## AaronB (Oct 13, 2014)

Sam.coots said:


> I recently bought a ls tractor.
> Aka nh boomer. The problem is not the loader lift capacity. But the rear end weight. Imo. Hp might be important but the overall weight and frame build matters a lot. I would rather have a tractor that weighed a 1000# more even giving up a few Ponys.


 
Lots of ways to weigh the back end down, wheter using something on the 3pt or using the hitch with a cart loaded with stuff, it can be done and something that I may have to do no matter what I get.



Mike Van said:


> Aaron - If these logs are headed for a mill, yours or someone else's, dirt is going to be your worst enemy. Dragging, pushing, rolling, whatever, logs in the dirt wants to be avoided whenever it can be. Unless you really like sharpening blades. Get a machine big enough to pick 98% of the logs your going to do. If you put forks on the edge of a bucket, you lose a lot of lift capacity.


 
I hear ya, I am trying to find the right balance for the tractor do do the garden/mowing type stuff and then log lifting. I kind of like the specs on that 5200 I showed in my previous post, doesn't seem to to big or to small.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Oct 13, 2014)

AaronB said:


> Know anything about this tractor? 4600 hours seems kind of high (to me anyway), but it is MFWD and has a loader rated at 2500.



Your right, it is way too many hours...at least for someone who doesn't know what to look for in a used tractor...

SR


----------



## Dave Boyt (Oct 15, 2014)

Are you sure you want to go big enough to pick up an occasional oversized log? I have loaded oak logs 10' by 40" using a ramp, winch, and parbuckle. I've been getting along with an 8N Ford for years, but just got a 4WD Case-IH 485 (53 hp). WOW! Huge difference, but it still won't pick up the big stuff. Lots of good used iron out there if you're patient and keep your eyes open.


----------



## firebrick43 (Nov 4, 2014)

AaronB said:


> Know anything about this tractor? 4600 hours seems kind of high (to me anyway), but it is MFWD and has a loader rated at 2500.


Sorry about seeing so late. 

They are not bad tractors per say but I would still take my 2020 or a 1530 or a 2940 especially on price. 

4600 hours is about half life on a tractor depending on how it used and abused. It's high for its age but not for a tractor in general. Loader work is hard on a farm tractor especially people who tries to use the like a bulldozer to push dirt and dig holes. Tractors used for constant field work last 8-10000 hours normally and I know a few with 14000. But that is rare and there has been quiet a bit of maintenance and good preventative maintenance along the way. 



From the pictures (from what I can see) it doesn't look to bad. It's probably getting close to a fuel pump rebuild that will take 600-1000 dollars depending on the shop and if I was buying it I would roll in a set of rod and crank bearings(assuming it could be done with just dropping the pan on that engine)

On the plus side it has a joy stick controls for the loader. Most older tractors don't but can be retrofitted for 400-600 dollars. See if it's a cable controls to the valve or if the joystick controls the valve directly. Cable controls can be trouble if you ever let the tractor set out and then try to use it in freezing weather. 

The new tractor has a rollbar as well. My rollbar and seatbelt cost 620 dollars several years ago and provides a solid piece of mind. It's not the for you, it for family and friends, wear your belt. 

The awning is nice most of the time but unless your in a well trimmed or mature forest it needs to come off or you will tear it up. 

Make sure any tractor you get has 2 remotes at the back. It very expensive and sometime difficult to get decades after the fact.


----------

