# Hiring a Sawyer for Walnut Log - Novice Seeking Advice



## 43North (Dec 5, 2019)

Novice here. I have zero experience with bandsaw mill or swing blade mill operation. I'm seeking advice about hiring a sawyer to mill a 20" diameter walnut log about 20' long. 

It was felled a year ago. I covered the ends with anchorseal and put it up on cement blocks. I've done a fair amount of chainsaw milling in cedar, spruce, pine, and ash up to 16". I've been happy with the results, but it is slow going. I had planned to use the Alaskan on this log, but I am having second thoughts because of time constraints.

I don't have a way to get it to a sawmill. Its in an open area and should be pretty accessible for a portable mill.

Some sawyers offer hourly rates. Others charge by the board foot. I've heard of some others who will take a percentage of the boards milled as payment if the log is of premium quality. I'm not flush with cash, so the "boards as payment" intrigues me.

Assuming that the client (me) will be assisting with moving the boards/cants, what percentage of the board footage does the sawyer typically take? Is there a going rate depending on species and grade of log?

Thanks for the advice.


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## Bmac (Dec 6, 2019)

I hired a sawyer with a portable bandsaw mill last winter. He charged $80 per hr which is pretty much in the range of going rates. He milled 11 logs, quarter sawing 4 of them. I made sure I had plenty of help moving the logs and plenty of help taking the lumber off the mill as it was sawn. The sawyer didn't leave the controls all day and was there for 7 hrs. 
If you plan it right and have everything ready and extra hands to help, paying per hr is the way to go in my opinion. Only issue with you may be that having a mill come for just one 20' log may mean he will charge a minimum amount for coming out. 

Here's the setup I had waiting for him, logs lined up and equipment there to move the logs;


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## 43North (Dec 6, 2019)

Good info. Thanks for the reply. The photo is really helpful, too.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 6, 2019)

We only handle logs that are brought in.

$135/hr, plus blades if there's anything in the logs.


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## 43North (Dec 6, 2019)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> We only handle logs that are brought in.
> 
> $135/hr, plus blades if there's anything in the logs.



Hmm. I suppose I could research the cost of hiring someone to take the log to a mill. Assuming that you don't hit any metal, what is the typical yield in board feet from an hour of sawing using your set up? Is there a range depending on the species? The type of wood seems to make a huge difference with chainsaw milling, but I have no idea if that makes a difference with actual sawmills.


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## Deleted member 117362 (Dec 6, 2019)

43North said:


> Hmm. I suppose I could research the cost of hiring someone to take the log to a mill. Assuming that you don't hit any metal, what is the typical yield in board feet from an hour of sawing using your set up? Is there a range depending on the species? The type of wood seems to make a huge difference with chainsaw milling, but I have no idea if that makes a difference with actual sawmills.


Where in Michigan are you? Friend has a band saw mill and I could check with him. He is located in Grayling.


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## Capitalist (Dec 6, 2019)

43North said:


> Novice here. I have zero experience with bandsaw mill or swing blade mill operation. I'm seeking advice about hiring a sawyer to mill a 20" diameter walnut log about 20' long.
> 
> It was felled a year ago. I covered the ends with anchorseal and put it up on cement blocks. I've done a fair amount of chainsaw milling in cedar, spruce, pine, and ash up to 16". I've been happy with the results, but it is slow going. I had planned to use the Alaskan on this log, but I am having second thoughts because of time constraints.
> 
> ...


All the walnut buyers we sold to were looking for sawyers to mill for them bit wouldnt allow anyone with a woodmizer or similar touch them. We tried to find a miller for one buyer in particular and told the miller "he won't let you do it with a woodmizer. If thats what you have dont waste his time."

So the buyer drove four hours and lo and behold he had a woodmizer. 
Buyer was furious. We were too. 

Last time we sold logs to either of them.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 6, 2019)

Roughly 400-500 bd/ft an hour, depending on log size and lumber size.

It's an LT40 Super with the diesel. I suppose it is mobile, but the insurance would be different and it's just not worth if for the odd person or two a year, especially when we have more business than we can handle already.



43North said:


> Hmm. I suppose I could research the cost of hiring someone to take the log to a mill. Assuming that you don't hit any metal, what is the typical yield in board feet from an hour of sawing using your set up? Is there a range depending on the species? The type of wood seems to make a huge difference with chainsaw milling, but I have no idea if that makes a difference with actual sawmills.



Why would someone not want a band mill? A circle mill is usually quicker, but a band mill has much less waste.
We used to have a Jackson Lumber Harvester. Would make the logs into cants with it and then saw the cants on the LT40.


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## Capitalist (Dec 6, 2019)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> Roughly 400-500 bd/ft an hour, depending on log size and lumber size.
> 
> It's an LT40 Super with the diesel. I suppose it is mobile, but the insurance would be different and it's just not worth if for the odd person or two a year, especially when we have more business than we can handle already.
> 
> ...


Usually the band mills used for walnut are huuuuge. 

The buyer said that small band mills moved too much. I have no hands on experience but circle mills he would allow. They just had to have a ton of output to make up for the waste.


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## 43North (Dec 6, 2019)

Duce said:


> Where in Michigan are you? Friend has a band saw mill and I could check with him. He is located in Grayling.



Thanks for the response. The log is at a relative's farm near Owosso. It's probably a 100 miles plus from Grayling. I imagine that the mileage fees alone would make it cost prohibitive from there for a single log.


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## 43North (Dec 7, 2019)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> Roughly 400-500 bd/ft an hour, depending on log size and lumber size.
> 
> It's an LT40 Super with the diesel. I suppose it is mobile, but the insurance would be different and it's just not worth if for the odd person or two a year, especially when we have more business than we can handle already.
> 
> ...



400-500 bd/ft and hour seems really efficient. Is this rate of cutting possible because of the hydraulics on that model?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 7, 2019)

43North said:


> 400-500 bd/ft and hour seems really efficient. Is this rate of cutting possible because of the hydraulics on that model?



Dunno.
It's kind of slow if you ask me.


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## Natster (Dec 7, 2019)

Suggestions. Talk to a couple of local sawyers. Some that are non portable, and some that are.
I'm thinking, cut in half, and moved to a really good band mill, is going to be a good option. Some mills have access to loggers. Who have loaders, on their trucks. I think walnut is hard. Slow feed rate, and narrow kerf.
Also, discuss what you want to do with the lumber. There are many schemes for log dis-assembly. Quarter saw. Learn about push-pull, leaning trees, geographic center, vs growth center.
To be happy in the end, there is a lot to consider.
What dimension of walnut lumber do you want/need?
Thanks.
Nate


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## 43North (Dec 8, 2019)

Natster said:


> Suggestions. Talk to a couple of local sawyers. Some that are non portable, and some that are.
> I'm thinking, cut in half, and moved to a really good band mill, is going to be a good option. Some mills have access to loggers. Who have loaders, on their trucks. I think walnut is hard. Slow feed rate, and narrow kerf.
> Also, discuss what you want to do with the lumber. There are many schemes for log dis-assembly. Quarter saw. Learn about push-pull, leaning trees, geographic center, vs growth center.
> To be happy in the end, there is a lot to consider.
> ...



Some good things to consider. With the Alaskan mill I have just gone straight through with live edges on both sides. Hiring a professional sawyer does open up a range of possibilities. 

I want a few slabs for some furniture. I wonder if 5/4 might be the most versatile for fine wood working? I have not done any fine woodworking, but I would like to explore that. I have been experimenting with building using the white pine and white spruce live edge boards that I have milled. The reactions have been very positive thus far. No problems with warping or movement, but I've been told that those species are easy to dry. Actually, the spruce where standing dead so that may have further reduced the chance of movement. 

Is there a reason to avoid cutting through the log, leaving the two live edges and further cutting on the table saw as needed? I just don't have much experience with walnut.

Thanks!


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## cantoo (Dec 12, 2019)

Consider what you are doing with the finished boards or slabs. I doubt you will have a use for 20' boards or slabs. Cut it to the length you need and haul it to a mill. 
Join this group and find a local to you guy. Portable Sawmills- Swing Blade Mills and Band Saw Mills


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 13, 2019)

I milled this black cherry log at 20' 6", because I wanted some long trim,






That's as long of a log that my mill will cut,






and it made some fantastic lumber!!






and LOT'S of it!






SR


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## 43North (Dec 14, 2019)

cantoo said:


> Consider what you are doing with the finished boards or slabs. I doubt you will have a use for 20' boards or slabs. Cut it to the length you need and haul it to a mill.
> Join this group and find a local to you guy. Portable Sawmills- Swing Blade Mills and Band Saw Mills


Yeah. For what I'm doing I won't need 20'. Shorter will be a lot easier to handle.


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## 43North (Dec 14, 2019)

SR - That is some gorgeous lumber. Wow.


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## Bmac (Dec 14, 2019)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I milled this black cherry log at 20' 6", because I wanted some long trim,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sawyer Rob said:


> I milled this black cherry log at 20' 6", because I wanted some long trim,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SR, what kiln do you run? 20 foot long pieces would need a big kiln or do you air dry that?


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 14, 2019)

I air dry, It works just fine for me...

SR


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## SeMoTony (Dec 14, 2019)

43North said:


> Novice here. I have zero experience with bandsaw mill or swing blade mill operation. I'm seeking advice about hiring a sawyer to mill a 20" diameter walnut log about 20' long.
> 
> It was felled a year ago. I covered the ends with anchorseal and put it up on cement blocks. I've done a fair amount of chainsaw milling in cedar, spruce, pine, and ash up to 16". I've been happy with the results, but it is slow going. I had planned to use the Alaskan on this log, but I am having second thoughts because of time constraints.
> 
> ...


I've milled red cedar, red oak, white oak, ash, maple and black walnut principally. Walnut is in the middle of difficulty. Alaskan, or on a 17" black walnut a tm-56 with a ms170. Gave 11"×12" eleven feet long cant. Sounds like a need to match chain to the wood and get sharpening skills (including rakers).
White oak and Ash were much easier with semi-skip chisel since they were37"-40" max. At that time 72 cc powerhead.
Good fortune


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## cantoo (Dec 15, 2019)

Sawyer Rob, I had just read a thread of milling cherry and most guys said to cut it a lot thicker than you need due to twisting and warping as it dries. Also mentioned bad checking. How is your long cherry looking as it air dries? There is a 24" x 35' to the first branch straight as an arrow cherry in the bush that I've been watching for many years. I will likely end up selling it as a sawlog but would be nice to get some more money by sawing it myself. There is a fair bit of cherry in the bush but most is either crooked or curvy as heck.


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## woodfarmer (Dec 15, 2019)

I had some ash milled onto 6x6x20, on a band mill. It moved in the center a little, can see the slight bow in the post


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 15, 2019)

I have had zero problems with checking and or twisting of Blk. Cherry in this area...

I'm not sure what happens in other parts of the country...

SR


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## cantoo (Dec 15, 2019)

This cherry is about 150' in from the edge of the bush on the sheltered side and surrounded by nice tall trees so it's grown into a nice tree.


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## 43North (Dec 19, 2019)

SeMoTony said:


> I've milled red cedar, red oak, white oak, ash, maple and black walnut principally. Walnut is in the middle of difficulty. Alaskan, or on a 17" black walnut a tm-56 with a ms170. Gave 11"×12" eleven feet long cant. Sounds like a need to match chain to the wood and get sharpening skills (including rakers).
> White oak and Ash were much easier with semi-skip chisel since they were37"-40" max. At that time 72 cc powerhead.
> Good fortune



Thanks for the well wishes. I'm not particularly fast at sharpening. Do you have any recommendations? For felling and bucking I have enjoyed the Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X jig.


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## Mad Professor (Dec 20, 2019)

cantoo said:


> Sawyer Rob, I had just read a thread of milling cherry and most guys said to cut it a lot thicker than you need due to twisting and warping as it dries. Also mentioned bad checking. How is your long cherry looking as it air dries? There is a 24" x 35' to the first branch straight as an arrow cherry in the bush that I've been watching for many years. I will likely end up selling it as a sawlog but would be nice to get some more money by sawing it myself. There is a fair bit of cherry in the bush but most is either crooked or curvy as heck.



I've milled a lot of cherry with my logosol mill. I've had about zero problems with twisting or checking. The logs were all straight with 3-4 clear sides. I got some 20" wide 5/4 boards that air dried without any warp or twist. I do most of my cherry 5/4, but also do slabs of 8/4 and 12/4. Sometimes a 4/4 depending on what is in the cant.

Problems people have is probably trying to get a wide board/slab that is close to or includes the pith, or using trees/logs that are bowed with a lot of stress in them. A good sawyer can minimize this, but you might not get the widest boards. The center is best used as a cant for a timber.

*EDIT: *one other thing that works for the center. Flat saw full width, then rip out the center/pith to get two quarter sawn boards from each flitch.

Cherry does not check much. Ash will check quick. Best solution is to end coat the logs with Anchorseal as soon as the logs are bucked. If you trim the ends of the boards/flitches/beams, re-coat them with sealer after triming.

Concerning selling cherry sawlogs...... That's why I bought my mill. I had 10-12' X 18-30" logs skidded to the roadside at my home, no pecker poles. Straight , mostly 4 clear sides.

When I contacted local mills, they took a look and offered me cord wood prices. I got about 1500 bd/ft from that first pile. Mostly clear 5/4 w/o sapwood.

The mill with an 066 cost me $2700 back then and cherry lumber was getting a good $. Do the math.

Pics are pile that was air drying a year. As they came off mill with no end trims


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## SeMoTony (Dec 20, 2019)

43North said:


> Thanks for the well wishes. I'm not particularly fast at sharpening. Do you have any recommendations? For felling and bucking I have enjoyed the Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X jig.


In the milling 101 thread, a teacher from Australia gives the best instruction. Bobl has been retired from teaching, but he still teaches those who take the time to read his posts
Enjoy milling safely Ya'll


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## Doug in SW IA (Dec 22, 2019)

I had nine logs milled by a portable sawmill and was very pleased with the results. I cut all my logs to 9' even though I could have had some 12' plus. It made it much simpler to stack and sticker. For my cabinet making projects I cannot foresee needing anything longer that 8'. 

That said, if your log is straight and you can get it to a mill there is a premium paid for lengths longer than 8'. The price per foot is not linear. Your log may be 20' but how straight is it? If it has a banana shape to it you do lose a lot of wood if you are milling it 20' long. 

Doug in SW IA


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## Mad Professor (Dec 22, 2019)

Doug in SW IA said:


> I had nine logs milled by a portable sawmill and was very pleased with the results. I cut all my logs to 9' even though I could have had some 12' plus. It made it much simpler to stack and sticker. For my cabinet making projects I cannot foresee needing anything longer that 8'.
> 
> That said, if your log is straight and you can get it to a mill there is a premium paid for lengths longer than 8'. The price per foot is not linear. Your log may be 20' but how straight is it? If it has a banana shape to it you do lose a lot of wood if you are milling it 20' long.
> 
> Doug in SW IA




Good points.

Always leave some trim length on logs , if for yourself or for mill. Ends are not square and often have defects/checks. Ask the mill what length(s) they want? If they want 8' and 12' don't buck up 10' logs. Give 4" of trim.

Also think about things when bucking up. You often can get two straight 8' logs out of a 20' banana. Look for defects when bucking: rot, sound and unsound knots, branch points, splits or damage in felling, hollows..... An 8' with four clear faces may get more $ than a 12' with defects, cut from the same log.


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## SeMoTony (Dec 24, 2019)

43North said:


> Some good things to consider. With the Alaskan mill I have just gone straight through with live edges on both sides. Hiring a professional sawyer does open up a range of possibilities.
> 
> I want a few slabs for some furniture. I wonder if 5/4 might be the most versatile for fine wood working? I have not done any fine woodworking, but I would like to explore that. I have been experimenting with building using the white pine and white spruce live edge boards that I have milled. The reactions have been very positive thus far. No problems with warping or movement, but I've been told that those species are easy to dry. Actually, the spruce where standing dead so that may have further reduced the chance of movement.
> 
> ...


Took a couple pics to show the extra distance from a 1" square aluminum post on an Alaskan setup

And then the post cutter, at least HF called it that 11 years ago. IIRC this is a TM-56 from amazon.
the cast iron "hand" springs requiring a bolt to go thru the bar into a tapped hole on the other side. Allows the set screws to get a good clamping force that keeps the teeth from contacting the cast iron from slipage.
If I run into too wide at the middle of a log, the 1x3 rectangle gets screwed to the log for a straight trim from the worse side. 
A longer bar was used to cut a cant 11"×12"× 11 feet from a donated black walnut. Too small a diameter to use the alaskan.
Enjoy milling safely


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