# Swabish



## BigJohn (Apr 11, 2003)

Here is a look at a 16 strand swabish I just made up for friend. I haven't seen anyone use one before. 

This is to replace the one offered by New England wich is made from 1/2 double braid that herniates at the eye. 16 couldn't do that since there is nother in the eye of the splice. I know a who puts a little something in because he likes it to stay round and not flatten out.

I heard that there is more strength when it is flattened like in webbing.


----------



## tjk (Apr 11, 2003)

I climbed with one like that but a little shorter. This was the first closed ended hitch i used several years ago. it has a little to much surface friction for my likeings.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 11, 2003)

i think that 16 strand has a core to not let it flatten out to maintain so much strength/material per inch, also flow around limbs better, with less friction, from less footprint on the limb.

When a line arcs around a curve the inside curve fibres are relaxed and not carrying/pulling load; while the outside fibers are teensed and the load is leveraged on them(same as offside holding fibre in hinge). Having almost zero distortion of shape, flat rope (webbing) loses much less strenght in a bight/turn, as there is no internal arc getting much less leveraged load than an outside arc (cuz webbing is flat).

So i can see a case for saying that the flatness won't affect strength, but i question the 16strand application, as the engineering of the line i beleive was so that it doesn't go flat, and stretch out. i've called Samson before on a similar deal to this. They warned against it; don't know if that is jsut to reduce liability etc.; but i jsut stuck with their advice.

i have taken the center out of a double braid, the outer tube does have unique characteristics for friction hitches. I backed out, as i was delving where i might not should. i had worries of strength, and heat build up on thinner 'line' with more friction contact. Guess i jest chickened out!





:alien:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 12, 2003)

Bigjon, how does 1/2" arborist climbing line work for a prussic cord? 
Is it more better than thinner cord most guys are using?


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 12, 2003)

1/2" 16 strand works great for my VT hitch.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 12, 2003)

WOW that looks way too bulky for me, the reason i went to 5/16 is because 3/8 was too big. Ther knots are too much in the way.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 12, 2003)

How do your knots get in the way John?  

The 16 strand is the smoothest runing cord with the least amount of resistance when pulling out slack that I have used so far. Also, I don't get the wear like I do with double braid.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 12, 2003)

BTW JPS, dosen't that 5/16 tress cord get way too hot on descent? I have burned the tips of my fingers a few times not to mention a few tress cords.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 13, 2003)

Here is a picture of the 1/2" and 5/16" hitches side by side. Yes I know that is a nonlocking biner with the 5/16" tress cord on it but it is just for the picture.  I used two CMI micro pulleys because I have only one Petzl micro but you get the point. Not a whole lot of difference in size when you compare how the 1/2" works vs. the 5/16". Maybe a week from now I will find another hitch to keep my interest.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 13, 2003)

IMO there is s significant differenace in bulk there. 

But then I sat potatoe and you say whatever you please, since this is America and discent is one of the courner stones of the Republic. 

Well at least until last year, then i digress.

My cord lasts me a few weeks, at around a buck a peice, I'm ok with that. What is a little blister with all the nicks and scrapes I get on a regular work day. Most of my burns are from touching the climbing line on decscent. On long raps, I may use my Piranah over the friction hitch.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 13, 2003)

JPS, what krab did you find to work with the Piranah? While at the rock climbing store I tried the biners recomemned on the box the 8 cam in but neither one of them fit. Did you have to remove the black plastic insert? How does the Piranah work compared to a standard 8?


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 13, 2003)

Presently i am running out some 3/8 dbl. braid from the collection; taking aim at the suggestions for chords after that.

i Presently am tying 3 ring anchor hitches back to the host line (kinda like barrel/fisherman's only with the stacked rings standing straight up?) on each leg of a knut hitch, that sits sqarely on the anchor hitches with no slack making a tight stack, giving better more immediate self tending, when pulling down and not just to the side. Probably drop to 2 rings for more compactness, been making 3 for years. Kinda think i like the stack of rings to stand tall, not squashed and wide (anchor/barrel). i make one witht he tail barely ssticking out the end, thighten and dress to the long end, then superset, by pulling the tail out for the length of the ~1 1/2" of tape, to furhter set/tighten (anchor/barrel). 

i don't untie the anchor hitches, in fact am experimenting with a plastic thimble in one of the temporary eyes formed. i don't untie the other one either, yet tie the knut, with the bulk of the knut resting on the hitches flat; ending up with no slack. Done by, lacing, then pulling the slack into the final eye(slack that you needed for lacing the bulky knot through the final ring of knut), then 'girthing' the slack in eye around the 'krab', using all the slack. Thus ending with all of the slack taken out and the knut hitch sitting flatly on the anchor hitches, giving more immediate tendng IMLO.

To even increase that, i have been trailing the loose tail of my line through the linking krab, as Brian recommended doing with a friction hitch lanyard to make it self tending. Using the link as the tender also, nice, simple and clean; multi use! More mechanics without the hardware. This that worx with the worst of the self tending knots, worx well with the best too! i take the line out of the krab (tending wise), and flip it over my shoulder for any real descents, for as the speed + 1/2 twist effects spiraling in the trailing line. Just walking out and feeding doesn't seem to affect the extension of line quite the same in that instance, so i guess that is slow/short enough that spiral are less noticeable and or not as much spirals produced/held.

i wouldn't use a bowline for a tail, save perhaps coming off 'all in one' (basic/no split tail), as the yosemite feeds up nicely to friction hitch the host. Especially on a snap that you might not be able to get - anchor to self/barrel off a closed ring. Otherwise it is a choice for temporary eye on end of lifeline, offering a fixed eye. i really like it for rigging Krabs&Sling Sets into the open eye of the dbl.bowline with tie off all day.

Yes, signifigant bulk. i agree....... 

:alien:


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *
> 
> Yes, signifigant bulk. i agree.......
> *



You guys think my hitch is bulky, check thetreespyder's hitch out. it is the middle image in the picture.  




> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *Here is my sandwich of connections to lifeline 'biner. *


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 14, 2003)

Still too much bulk?


----------



## dbeck (Apr 14, 2003)

jps and rockyjsquirrel: what are you guys using that is so inexpensive? I use ultra tech currently that costs approx 10 cent an inch or 1.20/ft. Does your cord compare to ut in performance?


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 14, 2003)

Geeeeeez now, along with everything else, now i can't even attack JP's signifigant bulk ............. i really feel useless around here now!

But i guess it is only paranoia when they are not watching like both my shrinks say, yes i meant i used to be taller, at least men-tall-y i think, but just maybe dreamed.

i think this more recent picture more accurately goes with my most recent post IML,H,A,O.

Sorry Nick, i tried...........

:alien:

edit - actually, have another knot tending deal for this self tending on the stack, still playing with, polishing....

Thanx Brian (below), do these cords for short term use (?) work well in lanyards longer term use/ no speed? Notice the 3/8 dyed line is = in strength to the 5/16 white. Samson explained to me once that was because the dye moleculses took up space too, so more actual strength rendering line in white package of same diameter. There claim was that the dye didn't weaken the line chemically, only material wise in the amoutn of space given.


----------



## dbeck (Apr 14, 2003)

Thanks for the link and info rockyj; I just ordered some to give it a whirl.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 14, 2003)

I got a 600ft spool of 5/16 sb and keep it in a 5 lb kittylitter box in the truck. I can cut a hank whenever I need it and give people a tress cord and sell long hanks like a small time drug dealer to help support my rope habit.

And that bulk that Li'l Kenny has is so a stiff breeze does not blow him away, or is it so that the groudies can spot him when he turns sideways


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 14, 2003)

Hey now,

i have put on some real weight,

so ya's better watch it 

(yeah, the rumor about me carrying 2 extra karabs is true!)


----------



## Stumper (Apr 14, 2003)

Rumour has it that Spydy's original "stacked 'biner" and hitch arrangement was the same size as Spydy himself. He says he has gained weight but I heard recently that Ken's biggest groundie is still setting line with the bigshot using his boss as the throw bag. This is why Spydy is so productive despite his verbosity.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 15, 2003)

My tres cords last for months. I don't burn out of trees, it doesn't do anyhting for me, it's not safe, and it wrecks equipment. There are times when I do a swing and drop, then I might let it run a bit, but that's only ten or fifteen feet and doesn't burn the ropes too much. 
It also helps if you add friction with your boots, gloves, a wrap on your leg, or on long runs just add a mechanical device. Typically, for a long drop I use my boots in a similar postion to footlocking, to add friction, because I like to have nice ropes(It does burn your climbing line too when you burn).

Dropping down fast was fun for about the first twenty times.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 15, 2003)

i like dragging my feet too on the line, any other friction that can be added to take 'friction load' off hitch. For a specified amount of support, X friction is needed. Any friction becomes a slice of that. Draging feet etc. (besides sensing and watching line) takes part of that friction load and heat; also allows the dissipation of heat between friction points instead of concentrated in one area.

Likewise a 'friction saver' lowers friction that must be made up somewhere else per load/speed to maintain support. The friction will be a specific number, that must be added up to; as it is lost or gained in other areas, other parts of the formulae must adjust to maintain the same sumnation of friction, to support you from falling.

Also, going slower will create less heat, as less force is fought by the friction, thus producing less heat byproduct in the exchange.


----------



## NickfromWI (Apr 15, 2003)

*Bulky knots..*

I read a lot of you guys mentioning that the knots are too bulky and things like that. My tress cords are 3/8ths UULS double braid polyester by Yale. I splice an eye on each end. If done properly, the stiffness in the throat actually HELPS the knot open easy when slack tending, yet still does not inhibit the grabbing action of the distel....or whatever you might be using.
I've also used the 3/8ths Sta Set (though I was a sucker and paid a lot for it at West Marine!). I've recently got some of that 5/16ths from JPS (he IS a drug dealer). I am going to splice some cords from that and see how I like the 5/16ths works out! It should be alright...I'm just a light weight (technically speaking, in boxing terms, I am a super middleweight!)

So whattya guys think? Don't say the splice isn't worth the time. The non-bulkyness is WONDERFUL! Brian, who's admitted to burning through cords quite quickly says his are lasting 3 or 4 days. THese things can be spliced up in an hour. For me, a cord lasts almost a month and I always have one or two for backups.

enjoy

love
nick


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 15, 2003)

Can a tress cord be trusted for longer term/semi permanent sliding hitch on a lanyard?

i can set my friction hitch right down flat on top of barrels, like a flat table, and don't have to untie barrels every time. The only bridge is the barrels. How long/stiff is the splice flare? i have the toss wand; that would be the way to go here?

i look to the most immediate tending, with the littlest play in between. That is why i rode old system so long, for the tending immediate action. So i would tend to favour the least amount of stuff that did that. So i guess that i'm wondering if there is a trade off betwixt the lack of bulk and immediate tending.

i must admit, that i have sat back and watched Brian rise from a less evolved 'all in one system' (at least i was on a split tail); to sky rocket by me, to where i am trying to catch up, and follow that lead. i know that others where doing it before; but there is something about watching that evolution he shared. In some ways i try to do the same thing, i think it is important to capture those moments in showing others the path, rather than the arrival point like a magic act.

Thanx all!



:alien:


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 15, 2003)

Nick, I agree the splices are worth the time it takes to make them. I have made up 5/16" and 3/8" cords that are spliced and they work great. But even with a tight eye they do not grip the biner as well as a knot. It can be a real pain when pulling out slack and everything slides down the side of the biner.

I really dig the 1/2" 16 strand for the way it works but with splices it will not grab. As far a bulk goes, if it is not wider than your biner or stopping the gate from opening how would it get in the way? I do not notice the difference when climbing. The spliced 5/16" cords do look a lot cooler though.


----------



## NickfromWI (Apr 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *Can a tress cord be trusted for longer term/semi permanent sliding hitch on a lanyard?
> *




DEFINATELY!! I've been using a spliced tress cord for a flip line for a while now. The tress cords perform VERY WELL here because they are not subjected to the high heat of long, rapid decents. Give it a shot. The easiest is probably a 3/8ths Yalex with an eye on each end, put on a normal 16 strand climbing line.

love
nick


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 15, 2003)

Thanx,

On Lanyards-
i use 3/1 distel for one way adjustable can be tended; 3/2 for 2 way that i wouldn't think you'd want an adjuster.

Have switched to Knut on 3/8" dbl.braid, using a 7k quicklink wrenched down tight ($2), that acts as tender and attatchment; as previously discussed.

i'm seeing 5/16" in my future.............................

extra toys laying around to build things after years of collecting and not understanding all the things you can do with those same simple tools and breaking them out? 

Geeeeeeee; i half no idea'r what you mean...............

:alien:


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 15, 2003)

Here is a picture of the lanyard setup I was using before I went to the microcender. Later I figured out that a 1/4" twisted clevis in place of the pulley works better.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 15, 2003)

Tim, you went from a lanyard which used some type of prussic and a fair lead, to a micro ascender?
It seems that would be a step backwards. 

In regard to the micro pulley, it's job is not just to advance the hitch, it also is used to reduce friction when pulling slack, like when you are doing a limb walk. As you move backwards, it's nice to have less friction coming from the tail of your rope, the pulley helps reduce that friction. It's such a small, cheap thing to have in your system, just add it. You may only need a twist clevis to advance your knot, but a pulley allows the tail of your rope to run easier.

Brian mentioned the two different styles of micro pulleys, but he didn't mention the wider pulley seems to have less friction on the tail of the climbing line when it is exiting the pulley at a steep angle. This is just an observation, I could be wrong.


----------



## BigJohn (Apr 15, 2003)

I have to agree with Mike on that one. The micro seems more advance but funtionally its not. At least not for a lanyard. I too have a micro on my saddle and the only reason for it was I was using a grigri but changed to a 16 strand lanyard with a bulldog snap. I guess my excuse is that I been lazy and don't really use or rely on my lanyard.

I just ordered a new butterfly tonight and on it I am going to use my fly lanyard with a distal and pulley setup for a lanyard. Still waiting on the new cord hopefully it will be in soon.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *I have to agree with Mike *



Hehe, that's stoopid!



> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *I don't really use or rely on my lanyard.
> *




BigJohn, You have asserted that the lanyard is just a requirement that slows you down and makes you less profitable to your employer. If you were in a tree without a climbing line would you be slower? Hell no. So what happens when you climb a wide tree? Your TIP can't always be perfect. So you use your lanyard to secure and move about. 
As an absolute minimum, you safety in when chainsawing, don't you? You also safety in when you get ot a spot to do some work, pole sawing, or whatever?
I use a lanyard for working an area of the tree. I go to an area that needs work, safety in, do my thing, move on. Seriously, if you are tied in on the right side of the tree and working on the left, you don't <B>use</B> your lanyard?


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 15, 2003)

Dang Mike! Your lanyard rope must be very heavy.  It is not like pulling 20' of line thru a climbing hitch.

Having used both types of lanyad adjusters, I do not see the advantage of using a hitch over mechanical. I know a lot of you seasoned climbers prefer the hitch style but why? You say the hitch is better but do not really explain how it is.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 15, 2003)

Tress' adjust while loaded better thn most hardwear.

People laugh at my 30ft lanyard till they see me use it. Being HiVee it is a few pounds, but that is a small fraction of my weight.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 15, 2003)

Not with pine sap on them.  That was the main reason I changed to the microcender. For a while I even used a mechanical climbing hitch but I made a FC and went back to the VT.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 16, 2003)

Pine Sap can be a big factor, the trade off is adjustability under load and price i think.

My buddy used to climb with 2 seperate, fixed length lanyards, and liked them long, just in case; but really hates it if it drags in his feets, so i made him this, that is a 19' lanyard with a knut on each hip, tended by the attatchment. A piece of throwline through the back pad (as not to have anything hard in line with tailbone /spine in case of slap to that area), brass snaps, the knuts and the safety snaps can keep all of the line out of even my feets. Of course my legs are just barely long enough to reach the ground anyway.

Stumper, i guess you thinx i ne'er hurd that BigShot line B4......... ; maybe it stems from being the first one on the block to have a BigShot. Or perhaps the first one on the block who had a helper throw away the twisted piece of metal trash when the rubber tubing broke. i even got to the last jobsite to check for it, even checked the trash, for it was trash day. But i was so stupid, i didn't go far enough to check the guy's trash across the street, where it was! HelpFull guy was working for guy i was subbing from, was there one day. Just happened to run into him like 2 months later....... (just forgot to do it with the truck, so look out, he is still lurking out thar..........)

So is the guy that i werked with for a few months on a project, that thought it was so smart that i turned the tab of my Pepsi to the 9 o'clock position to id it from the rest; he turned his to the same possition so he could tell his from everyone else's too..........

Yeah, JP; they are laughing at the lanyard, it's okay....

:alien:


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 16, 2003)

Nice deda lanyard Ken. I have learned how to adjust the Microcender under load and just don't notice the difference while climbing with it anymore. I do see you guys point about it though.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5269


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 16, 2003)

The point about sap is well taken. I won't ever have to worry about sap because if I was climbing pines often, I would kill myself, 'cus they suck.

Ken, nice job on the lanyard. Why the big clips and thick rope? Have you tried a small diameter lanyard rope yet?


----------



## Stumper (Apr 16, 2003)

Spydy, Just funnin' with you about the Big Shot. 
Nice lanyard arrangement Ken-But I wonder how much I would get tangled up in it? I've been moving down a different path than Tom Dunlap's DEDA. I 've been using a single ended, single adjusting 10 foot lanyard for a few months-Steel snap spliced on left end and VT hitch secured to the second snap with a wall and crown termination on the rope so that it won't pass through my slack-tending mini-'biner. I am about to make up a different arrangement for a longer lanyard. (I just got my Sherrill order with new ALMN snaps yesterday). This time I don't intend to splice a snap on either end, rather I plan to put Stopper knots(wall and crown, Matthew walker knot or such) on the ends with snaps and hitchs for adjusters on both sides. I had figured on 12' for maximum convenient length so that I wouldn't have to trip on the tails but I may incorporate your idea of backpad tending and try a little more length. I'll let you all know how I like it. There is no doubt that snaps on the ends too would add versatility but I get to feeling oveerloaded with so many termination links on my saddle.


----------



## dbeck (Apr 16, 2003)

anybody, any idea where I could get info on how to tie the knut knot? also, can someone explain barrels to me? Thanks!


----------



## Stumper (Apr 16, 2003)

Do a search on this site for Knut knot or Knut hitch- there are some posted pictures. "Barrels" refer to the 1/2 double fisherman's knot on a bight-also known as the Scaffold knot.


----------



## tjk (Apr 16, 2003)

I terminated my knut right to my d rings ( I have never needed to take off my lanyard) then a small mongoose caribiner behind it for tending. The rope is kmIII 7/16 I think. I also have a peice of 1/2" tubular webbing about 12" long just past the snap. I really like how it works and it is very light.


----------



## BigJohn (Apr 16, 2003)

Mike I honeslyt don't use the lanyard much at all. When just started out climbing I used it all the time. I evern had two big ones! Yes sometimes a climbing line does slow you down. You can either leave it behind if you do bring a lanyard or just put a lot of slack in it. You have to look at it like rock climbing there are plenty of holds. Here is a technique I use often. I will climb by just grabing with just one finer around a sucker. One finger can get close and you can pull a lot of weight on it. Not all the branches you grab have to be big. Keep your weight over your feet and don't think about haveing to keep your self in place or keeping your balance. Just look at your work think about the limb or sucker you want to cut and whole balance will come its natural.


----------



## dbeck (Apr 16, 2003)

I agree w/ some of bigjohn and mike's comments
Mike is correct about the lanyarding in while working...always do it. I remember tom dunlap's sneeze or bee test here. working while not tied in does not pass this test. if you are out even just a little ways from your tip, a slip could mean broken bones or torn cartilage/tendons, to say the least.
bigjohn is correct about the balance coming naturally. it took some time for me to realize that, but once i did i was much more comfortable in the tree. I do however still lanyard in while working(100% of the time while chainsawing, that is regulation right?). The extra time spent to lanyard in may actually be worht it someday


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 16, 2003)

Wow, i'm going thru rating threads, this is a clear 5.......

i think of lifeline as main support, lanyard as anti sway device ussually, while doubling as backup for a failsafe system, while running any power cutting instrument around the frail thread of nylon i hang from. Maybe just cuz i'm chort, it seems like farther down thar......

StumperrrrrrrrrrrMan......; don't flinch now.......! 

MM-The big aluminum snap on the previously pictured lanyard was a request, in Sherrill catalog, the other snap, was one of his to reuse. i like making them diffrent snaps on diffrent sides, figure it helps keep'em straight. i use single small aluminum Sherrill snap myself. Host lanyard line is 1/2" NE SafetyBlue HyVee; is smaller suggested? The knut friction hitches are 3/8" double braid, looking to 5/16" at next evolution. i cuts my tooths on pines, freaking palms suck; guees i've got used to the sap more than the "insulation" type dust, razor teeth, infestations etc. Freaking hate palms, and 'monkey puzzle trees. Though not as much, cuz i just don't do them!

i have tied knut right to D-ring for buddy, then threaded lanyard thru D for even better tending; he took it off. Though i always thought it whould werk! i've seen i think of 2 pictures of Tom's DETA, always kinda had this idea, didn't think his was quite the same. Never would want to take credit for someone else's efforts. In fact in all my humble explorations often ponder on how many independant thoughts i really have. i hope i always have lent all credit due. 

Guess i'll cut this from above and paste here like this.........

i really like my Sherrill Aluminum snap(16010). When i first fot it i thought it would be to light to snap and boomerang around to loop back to me, grab lines, clear frail deadwood etc. It sat on the shelf for a while! But it is perfect! Just like that funny looking twisted clevis thingy(15991). Both i bought as new toys then was leary of, then found them to be that higher, simple refinement, that you wouldn't usually think of......

i can move my microscender under my own lil load, just not smoothly at extremes in positioning. Sometimes with a high friction support just by adjusting my weight so that the friction holds my weight and the microscender is almost free. Might even help to pull on the tightening end of the lanyard just enough to where the cam is about to move and then thumb the cam, just as it wants to re-lease anyway. i always try to go with the flow, find the way it wants to work, then put mine on top of that.

Prolly just a short guy fling; i've always walked amongst giants. In some ways that has given me the proper mindset i try to tell myself. Gotta stay happy somehow!

Gotta go, back to the lab........

O here is my pic of Knut, on too little of bridge (like i like), made in experi-mental line from the toybox, with thimble (just to try, don't know why), on illegitamate snap, riding a neglected, aged Wall Max host line, with 'lectrickall tape...........

:alien:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 16, 2003)

Bigjohn, it sounds like you are trading in commonly accepted safety techniques, for speed in the tree. I don't think from an employers point of veiw, that is a good trade off. 
If you worked for me, or with me, I wouldn't trade in a thousand very productive days, for one serious accident. If you press your luck, you increase the odds of a serious injury accident, which is devistating to the company, not to mention the family of the one hurt.

I hear what you are saying about confidently moving through a tree. With a little practice, you could do that AND be tied in safely, thereby becoming a much more valuable climber.
To those that read here, you're here to improve your climbing. Taking shortcuts in safe working habits won't help you become a better climber, not in the long run. 
Tree work should be sold so that the work can be done safely. If you feel that you need to tear through the tree to make your money, then the selling needs to be changed. Fast wreckless work is for the fly-by-nites.
As a homeowner, I would feel ripped off if I hired a company to work for me and they performed their service in a fast, unsafe manner, even if it was cheaper.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *Host lanyard line is 1/2" NE SafetyBlue HyVee; is smaller suggested? *



Anyone who hasn't tried a rope thinner than 1/2" should give it a try, just so it meets the MBS for climbing line. Guys who like longer lanyards should think about elongation too. Thinner is much more better, IMO.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 16, 2003)

I have used stiff 7/16" static for climbing line and lanyard but every time I mention it I get yelled at.  I stopped using the static for the lanyard because I nicked it with my saw and the cover exploded and the core pufffed up. It looked worse than it was and scared me pretty good. Now I am using 16 strand until I can get a hank of The Fly. Kind of hard to buy new gear while recovering from three months of not climbing.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 17, 2003)

Stumper Man on lanyard length,

the supports of the snaps, friction hithces, brass snaps can keep line zig zagged at calf height, then across back is straight, (laid out in saddle kind like picture) but actually there could be 'droops' of line on either side of that rear support too, for more length.

i'm likeing the more self adjsutable, compact Knut, especially laced through the karab for even easier adjusting. Am looking again to tieing it straight to D wqith Knut on tight stack. The knut is self tending, but you have to pull it to a point / angle that it catches itself. So for getting the most out of each draw of the line i look to short bridges and tight stacks, maybe other tending helps. Using the attatching karab as a tender also as Brian mentioned is helpful here with minimal hardware, truly simple, clean ingenuity i think.

Am looking to Knut tight stack straight to D next, but am trying to envision running the tail of the lanyaard through a light ring held too by the barrels; searching for more immediate tending pulling straight back as well as to the side. Pulling the Knut to the side, especially thru karab gives best immediate tending i think i witness, pulling straight back and not to the side, necessitates the need for the reversing of the bridge (play of 2x it's length in drawing of line), sso that the base ring of the hitch can tension, to enact the self tending feature. i've been working on minimizing that. Thus the short bridge, and stiff barrel table immediately under the knut in my strategies. Guess i'm jest being lazy not making the barrels each time, taking the slack into one and ggirthing (or round turning if too tight) around karab to render tight stack of knut on this table.

Back to the lab......
:alien:


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 18, 2003)

i think that static line (thinking kernmantle) is so tight, and so tight in the 'kern' presurized against it's sausage casing 'mantle', that popping a hole in the sausage casing or 'hose' will let all that force flow out at point of pressure re-lease. 

Also when i did it i could see quickly how ballistic nylon works, chokes a saw like dang moss!

i think that dynamic kern wouldn't have this tendency so dramatically, but more so than braid and simple 3 strand, which wouldn't tend to explode, and also tend to isolate damage more.

IM,L,H,A,O
:alien:


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 18, 2003)

The thing about that stiff static kernmantle is that almost all the strength is in the core and not the cover. But is does look pretty scary when the core puffs up.  From what I have been told about The Fly is that it performs like the static kernmantal, light and glides smooth over limbs and gear but has a more durable cover. Just not sure I will dig the fact that it is dynamic. The lack of stretch is one of the benifits I like most about static kernmantle.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 18, 2003)

Off NER page

ELONGATION:

5.0% per NFPA
2.5% per EN 1891

http://www.neropes.com/markets/default_new_products.htm


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 18, 2003)

Whenever i read the standards for lifelines, i always ass-i-me(d) that part of the 1/2 " line specification was for abrasian, heat, slight close calls with hand and power cutting tools etc.

Was this ever a consideration? Was it unnecessary? Are there any real such risks with thinner chords and lanyards?

MM, et al. what is your choices for lanyard and lanyard friction hitches for lanyard?

i think all easily working mechanics is about balance, and the little bit of offside pull to empower your wishes. Whether climbing or rigging, set up self working balances, that need little correction. Whether in your stance or rigged line. Ummmmm wait that might be for that philosophy thread......

:alien:


edit, Endura braid from NE as per JP's link, at 5/16" is a whopping 7k! While 1/4" is coming in at 4k, so is that close enough to Sailnet 5/16" at 4400# is 1/4" next?


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 18, 2003)

I have used NE's 5 mm Tech Cord (5,000 lb test) for a tress cord and it works very well. However, you need more wraps to keep it from burning the finger tips like 5/16" cords will do.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tim Gardner _
> * I really dig the 1/2" 16 strand for the way it works but with splices it will not grab. *



O.K. I was wrong. It does grab.


----------



## Stumper (Apr 22, 2003)

Here is a pic of my new 14' Bare Ended Double Adjusting lanyard.
The lanyard is Wall 3 strand hard lay polyester. The hitches are Distels-the green is 3/8 Sta set, the white is 5/16 Sta set. Bronze swivel snaps serve as slack tenders. Wall knots serve as stoppers and the rope is relaid and whipped beyond the stopper knots. The double locking aluminium snaps are pretty thin so I padded the tress cord attachments by ring hitching the snaps with nylon twine. I have only made 2 climbs on this set up but so far I am pleased.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Apr 22, 2003)

How does it work? Does a section of rope hanging down from the snap get in the way while putting it around a limb or spar?


----------



## Stumper (Apr 22, 2003)

As I mentioned in my edited addition to the first post I've only used it a couple of days. Thus far the tag end hanging hasn't been a problem. It actually allows me to whip the end around a trunk without having to catch a knuckle banging snap. Running the snap to the end works fine for making a toss through a crotch, Retrieval through a tight crotch is a little more difficult than pulling through an eyespliced snap.


----------

