# Insurance problems



## Ethan51 (Feb 17, 2012)

So, I am trying to get off the ground with my lawn and tree company, but with how much insurance costs, I will be losing money a lot faster than I can make it. I was wondering if anyone has figured out a good way to get around this. I am 16 so I really cant do much aside from just getting around it, at least till I have more cash flow from jobs. Thanks


----------



## Grace Tree (Feb 17, 2012)

I'd take the "tree" out of the name and see if you can get insurance as a lawn care company. I know insurance varies from state to state but I think at 16 you're going to have a tough time finding it. You might try organizing the company in a parents name for legal and insurance purposes.
Phil


----------



## ATH (Feb 17, 2012)

You have two good suggestions from Small Wood. One thing I'd throw in there though is do not mislead your agent...if you are going to do tree work, make sure you are covered for doing tree work.

Two other suggestions:
1) Find a policy that you can pay on monthly.
2) If you can't afford to pay for insurance, you aren't charging enough. If you aren't charging enough to cover insurance, I'm willing to bet you are not charging enough to cover other expenses (gas, repairs, replacement equipment, cost of office supplies to mail bills, taxes (often a big killer of small business - save at least 25% of your total receipts until all taxes are paid), etc..., etc...)


----------



## millbilly (Feb 17, 2012)

the following are federal 
Employment Standards for 16- and 17-Year-Olds
in Nonagricultural Employment

The Hazardous Occupations Orders (HOs) for Nonagricultural Employment

HO 14* Power-driven circular saws, bandsaws, chain saws, guillotine shears, wood chippers, and abrasive cutting discs.

The FLSA provides a minimum age of 18 years for any nonagricultural occupations which the Secretary of Labor “shall find and by order declare” to be particularly hazardous for 16- and 17-year-old persons, or detrimental to their health and well-being. This minimum age applies even when the minor is employed by the parent or person standing in place of the parent

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/childlabor101.pdf

You can't get inurance


----------



## BigWill1985 (Feb 18, 2012)

We just purchased insurance and went 100% legitimate about two months ago. Just felt out the water for the first 6 months (neither myself nor my partner used this as income for survival in the beginning), and discovered that there is plenty of money to be made. Invested every penny we had into buying equipment, and got things rolling and decided to make everything legit. After reading up on here some, I went into our local Nationwide office and checked out what they offered. The best rate was subcontracted out to Tapco Insurance. Got us a $2,000,000 liability policy ($1,000,000 per incident, $2,000,000 per year) for ~$750. I paid it in one lump sum up front, which dropped the price a little bit. If we divided it up over the year, it was somewhere near $1100 per year, or ~$100 per month). That is for coverage of us in Virginia, with only 2 employees and no bucket truck work, and an expected income of ~$100,000 per year. It covers us for all work from trimming, to pruning, to felling, and removal. 

~Will Courtier~


----------



## blades (Aug 18, 2012)

At 16 you can not legally enter a binding contract without a parental or someone else that has legal responsibility for you co-signing, nor can you issue a contract subject to the same terms. Even at 18 in most areas it is still a problem. ( ya, I know you can get your head blowen off in some god forsaken hole as a member of the service but that don't mean squat in the eyes of the law)


----------



## ShermanC (Jan 15, 2013)

*How about a follow up with Ethan51?*

The five responses you got last year encouraged you to be wise and patient and wait your turn. The lyrics of the soft rock song "Every Move You Make" or "I'll Be Watching You" can be encouraging to you to study, find good elders to mentor with, and go out on a career development search and interview some arborists both large and small companies. All the while learn your equipment and work methods well. Many of our AS readers have gone down this long road and found life in this industry and profession requires consistent effort, patience and diligent pursuit of goals and dreams. The road to success might be uphill, paved, chip and seal, gravel, washboard gravel or downright muddy and sloppy going even when it is uphill!

I worked in my father's restaurant from age 13 to 22 and often felt axious to bust out of the harness and go on my own. He wasn't around all the time but he sure kept me under his thumb. My last year with Dad was full time after I finished college. Man, we fought or argued a lot so I asked my god father for advice. He told me the time had come to leave Dad and go into corporate management. Dad was not about to turn me loose and he could not give me enough responsibility to utilize my education. It was tough to give Dad my resignation but it ended up being best for both of us.

Don't give up Ethan...stay the course and get good advice from your "air traffic controllers" who'll guide you along your flight to success. What's happening now?


----------



## Ethan51 (Jan 15, 2013)

As of right now I am on track to be a certified ISA arborist here in around a month. As of this week I have $1,000,000 in liability for anything lawn care, and landscaping related, which includes tree trimming. As of right now it does not include tree removal, but that was a very small part of my company. So I opted to hold of on that till it is needed. I am also on track for this to be my most profitable season yet! This will be my 2nd season doing tree work, 3rd doing lawn care and landscaping, and this year I am starting the contracting/remodeling part if the company! So this should be a great year. Thanks to all you guys and gals at AS for helping me get here!


----------



## blades (Jan 15, 2013)

Good for you Evan. Stay away from the credit/ leasing sharks. Expand only when you can pay for needed equipment up front. That way if things take a bit of a down turn or some jerk rips ya off you can weather through it ( hey, it happens) with out being chased or sweating blood about some payment. Best wishes on your endeavors. Chris


----------



## ShermanC (Jan 15, 2013)

*Adding to what Chris (blades) recommended*



blades said:


> Good for you Evan. Stay away from the credit/ leasing sharks. Expand only when you can pay for needed equipment up front. That way if things take a bit of a down turn or some jerk rips ya off you can weather through it ( hey, it happens) with out being chased or sweating blood about some payment. Best wishes on your endeavors. Chris


When and if you need a loan for equipment, make ever effort to make an extra payment at least once a year. Your interest rate will drop,nthe balance will drop faster and you'll be amazed at how much you saved. Another thing: just as we are helping you, pay it forward and help another person learn the business. The more you teach the more you learn.
Stay safe, Sherm


----------

