# how to "false crotch" a stalk down.



## Peter.s (Jul 8, 2014)

okay.

Ive been climbing a few years and I always used a pulley and a cows hitch to rig down sections of stalk,but last week I was working with another climber and he asked why I dont just false crotch the stalk down and when I said I dont know how and asked him to tell me how to do it he refused (no love lost).

So my question is pretty mutch the title - any help would be appreciated.

pete.


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 8, 2014)

I've always heard the pulley being described as the false crotch.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 8, 2014)

Stalk?


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## Peter.s (Jul 8, 2014)

stalk or stick - whats left after all the branches are off and topped.


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## Guran (Jul 9, 2014)

Maybe this will help you..


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## ggoodman (Jul 9, 2014)

and that is why i love this site.


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## Peter.s (Jul 9, 2014)

maybe ill try and phrase it again.

from what ive been told there is a way to false crotch a tree without a pulley 
something about wraping the rope around the tree under the cut and what not but I dont know the specifics.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 9, 2014)

Peter.s said:


> maybe ill try and phrase it again.
> 
> from what ive been told there is a way to false crotch a tree without a pulley
> something about wraping the rope around the tree under the cut and what not but I dont know the specifics.



yeah, you can false crotch it without a pulley, but you ain't gonna lower it, it will cinch up and then you will be figuring out how to un-cinch it. Rope on rope friction ain't a false crotch. Peinse!
Jeff


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## Zale (Jul 9, 2014)

Peter.s said:


> maybe ill try and phrase it again.
> 
> from what ive been told there is a way to false crotch a tree without a pulley
> something about wraping the rope around the tree under the cut and what not but I dont know the specifics.



Thats old school. Gives you less control and tears up your ropes. Your friend is bs'ing you.


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## Peter.s (Jul 10, 2014)

Zale said:


> Thats old school. Gives you less control and tears up your ropes. Your friend is bs'ing you.


k - all i needed to hear - thanks


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## cupar (Jul 10, 2014)

I do that method since I don't have to pay for my own rigging ropes and am not supplied with and don't own rigging pulleys. I don't know when or if I'll be able to make a video but if your really interested I can give you a description but it's not the safest way or best way to do it. Yes you can lower it down after, it won't cinch up. I found out the wrong way if you cut a 400lbs + piece you might not have enough friction in your false crotch and it (the false crotch) can slide down the tree a bit before it bites again.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 11, 2014)

Zale said:


> Thats old school. Gives you less control and tears up your ropes. Your friend is bs'ing you.




When you can " false crotch" a tree down you have ascertained a Zen like state. Its not something a person can show another person to do and it doesn't really say a whole lot of good about Zen I suppose now does it?

Guys that use this method to TD trees are mistakenly thought of as gods because it is so much quicker and easier but no self respecting human would do it.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 11, 2014)

Peter.s said:


> okay.
> 
> Ive been climbing a few years and I always used a pulley and a cows hitch to rig down sections of stalk,but last week I was working with another climber and he asked why I dont just false crotch the stalk down and when I said I dont know how and asked him to tell me how to do it he refused (no love lost).
> 
> ...



He wouldn't show you because he knew better.

Don't go getting all upheaved over one of those " false crotchers" who lurched out from under a bridge only to be chased back into the darkness by the glint from a lowering block.

Its probably best you two part ways.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 11, 2014)

Guran said:


> Maybe this will help you..




false crotching in this sense is not what " false crotching" is and don't get either confused with natural crotching.

" false crotching is rigging the rope through itself so that the load side is caught and ran across the tail side. You have to be creative in doing so and you have to be insane.

It only takes a couple times til the rope is fried.

What you see in the video is common practice. What this other guy is talking about is a different entity and only common practice to a handful of wretched bandit vagabond types who claim to be spiritual. Hell, maybe they are! I can't figure out how they do it either! Actually, what I don't get is how the rope ain't broke!

And actually, while these guys will show you how to take down a tree let me tell you, well, I seent it. Its cool on paper. Ain't doing it to my ropes and HELL you can't say for sure it going really hold. No way! No integrity in the rigging at all, in fact pure sabotage. Who the Hell would do that? To me, it seems they are just to lazy to set the blocks ( yeah, its kinda hard I'll agree) and really are leaving to much to chance.

Old School? I don't think so. No school is more like it.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 11, 2014)

cupar said:


> I do that method since I don't have to pay for my own rigging ropes and am not supplied with and don't own rigging pulleys. I don't know when or if I'll be able to make a video but if your really interested I can give you a description but it's not the safest way or best way to do it. Yes you can lower it down after, it won't cinch up. I found out the wrong way if you cut a 400lbs + piece you might not have enough friction in your false crotch and it (the false crotch) can slide down the tree a bit before it bites again.



Uh, um, like, uh. What!?


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## cupar (Jul 11, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> false crotching in this sense is not what " false crotching" is and don't get either confused with natural crotching.
> 
> " false crotching is rigging the rope through itself so that the load side is caught and ran across the tail side. You have to be creative in doing so and you have to be insane.
> 
> ...



If by a couple times you mean 30-50 trees rigging 250lbs pieces 10-12 pieces a tree. Yes the rope will need to be retired after a couple trees. While you seem to be very set against this practice, it is functional when you don't have rigging gear available. The better option is of course to have the rigging gear or to only do trees with lots of crotch's.

As for your talk of Zen, spiritual, and creatures. 
"Uh, um, like, uh. What!?"


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## cupar (Jul 11, 2014)

cupar said:


> If by a couple times you mean 30-50 trees rigging 250lbs pieces 10-12 pieces a tree.



This is a very short life span for a 1/2" rigging rope.


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## Pelorus (Jul 11, 2014)

cupar said:


> This is a very short life span for a 1/2" rigging rope.



A tragic life, and full of hardship.


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## beastmaster (Jul 12, 2014)

I have on a time or two, using three strand sort of falsed crotched a chunk or two down without using a pulley. You need to leave a small stub(sometimes two at the same height)run the rope around the tree then(this is important)go under its self and over a stub, face cut the chunk tie it off and let it go. If for some reason the stub doesn't catch it, the rope can slid down the tree. But if placed right it doesn't take a big stub, only a few inches for the rope to be guided in. If you go over the rope and not under it your screwed too. It'll lock its self. This is a good Technic to know, but not one you should use often. if done right you can let it run and brake it your self from the tree. Lot of things can go wrong and its hard on rope.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> A tragic life, and full of hardship.




And down right dangerous! Do you want to be on the receiving end of that!?


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I have on a time or two, using three strand sort of falsed crotched a chunk or two down without using a pulley. You need to leave a small stub(sometimes two at the same height)run the rope around the tree then(this is important)go under its self and over a stub, face cut the chunk tie it off and let it go. If for some reason the stub doesn't catch it, the rope can slid down the tree. But if placed right it doesn't take a big stub, only a few inches for the rope to be guided in. If you go over the rope and not under it your screwed too. It'll lock its self. This is a good Technic to know, but not one you should use often. if done right you can let it run and brake it your self from the tree. Lot of things can go wrong and its hard on rope.




Yeah!


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

cupar said:


> If by a couple times you mean 30-50 trees rigging 250lbs pieces 10-12 pieces a tree. Yes the rope will need to be retired after a couple trees. While you seem to be very set against this practice, it is functional when you don't have rigging gear available. The better option is of course to have the rigging gear or to only do trees with lots of crotch's.
> 
> As for your talk of Zen, spiritual, and creatures.
> "Uh, um, like, uh. What!?"



Stop it dude. 

You already mentioned how much fun it is when the whole thing slides down the trunk so your chances of a merit badge is, well, its nil bro nil.

And as far as options go: Well I would say that if you want to do it right then you don't have to many options besides a decent enough block system.

Yer going to push it to far one day, the rope will break, the load will go flying into whatever and whomever.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 12, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Stop it dude.
> 
> You already mentioned how much fun it is when the whole thing slides down the trunk so your chances of a merit badge is, well, its nil bro nil.
> 
> ...



Yeah, may as well put on your super man suit and run the bull rope thru your D ring on your saddle and hold on.
Jeff


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## cupar (Jul 12, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Stop it dude.
> 
> You already mentioned how much fun it is when the whole thing slides down the trunk so your chances of a merit badge is, well, its nil bro nil.
> 
> ...



okay "dude", I was pointing out that you shouldn't use to heavy a piece for the working load of the rope is reduced, "bro". I don't understand your conflict with me as we're both agreeing that the best method is with rigging gear. However the false crotch method is functional when you don't have access to that gear, or for small pieces that would take alot of time to set-up your rigging gear. 

However "When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are." -Proverbs 26:4

So I'm going to end my discussion with you.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yeah, may as well put on your super man suit and run the bull rope thru your D ring on your saddle and hold on.
> Jeff



I suppose the gentlemen has a problem with getting the right tools, I gotta say though I never met an owner that wouldn't at least have some sort of block. The sling? Well we can't expect miracles can we? But usually most were happy to provide... a worthwhile candidate of course.

Most of what I have seen is a new shiny block hanging in the box while dunderheads would rather go burn the rope doing dumb stuff looking at the block like its a rattlesnake or something then them hollering for me to come and help when their thing is exploding then they get mad at me cause I won't help now (much less can) cause we already went through the whole " false crotch" thing and I said I could have no part in it cause it was dangerous and stupid kinda like that " wrap the rope around the tree for friction while we blow out this top" ******** some folks seem to like as well so its not like I don't exactly know what the **** smells like.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

cupar said:


> okay "dude", I was pointing out that you shouldn't use to heavy a piece for the working load of the rope is reduced, "bro". I don't understand your conflict with me as we're both agreeing that the best method is with rigging gear. However the false crotch method is functional when you don't have access to that gear, or for small pieces that would take alot of time to set-up your rigging gear.
> 
> However "When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are." -Proverbs 26:4
> 
> So I'm going to end my discussion with you.




OK! Sounds great! The last part that is. In my mind the " FC" method is NOT functional in any way shape or form. It has no definite guidelines save one: rope on rope. Its unethical. Step up or step out.

" Once you learn to walk you no longer are able to crawl" - DR. P. Proteus circa: today

When was the pulley invented anyway?


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I have on a time or two, using three strand sort of falsed crotched a chunk or two down without using a pulley. You need to leave a small stub(sometimes two at the same height)run the rope around the tree then(this is important)go under its self and over a stub, face cut the chunk tie it off and let it go. If for some reason the stub doesn't catch it, the rope can slid down the tree. But if placed right it doesn't take a big stub, only a few inches for the rope to be guided in. If you go over the rope and not under it your screwed too. It'll lock its self. This is a good Technic to know, but not one you should use often. if done right you can let it run and brake it your self from the tree. Lot of things can go wrong and its hard on rope.



Yeah, this is what I meant when you had to be a Zen guru to get this to work but that's IS just getting it rigged as that Zen don't always come through when you cut it loose.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

cupar said:


> okay "dude", I was pointing out that you shouldn't use to heavy a piece for the working load of the rope is reduced, "bro". I don't understand your conflict with me as we're both agreeing that the best method is with rigging gear. However the false crotch method is functional when you don't have access to that gear, or for small pieces that would take alot of time to set-up your rigging gear.
> 
> However "When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are." -Proverbs 26:4
> 
> So I'm going to end my discussion with you.



And why do you have to close the conversation? You don't have to foolishly argue with me, you can stop. I even recommended you do! I wish you would. Sure, we're gonna get you all hooked up with a spanking pulley and a sleek split eye so you don't have to swing uncontrolled logs at things anymore, get you looking sharp! Feeling good!

Everybody always wondered how they built The Pyramids, Stonehenge, great sailing ships from before Christ's time. It was pulleys dude.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

cupar said:


> I do that method since I don't have to pay for my own rigging ropes and am not supplied with and don't own rigging pulleys. I don't know when or if I'll be able to make a video but if your really interested I can give you a description but it's not the safest way or best way to do it. Yes you can lower it down after, it won't cinch up. I found out the wrong way if you cut a 400lbs + piece you might not have enough friction in your false crotch and it (the false crotch) can slide down the tree a bit before it bites again.




I was getting a flat tire fixed at the shop the other day, there was a lady there who had a broken lug nut on a 4 lug car. They told her it was OK to drive it.


Now I don't know if you can see what you said Cupar but if you can't see how what you said is just like what I said and how they are both completely wrong, contradictory, bound to get someone hurt, then I suggest you buy two pulleys and change yer paradigm in the morning.


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## beastmaster (Jul 12, 2014)

Ok though this isn't a good Technic, and really shouldn't never be done with any thing heavy ever. I went into the laboratory and set up a scale model of my semi-pulley-less false crotch. Knowledge is power and you can teach it to people you don't like. Leave or find a small stub. run the line around the trunk,make sure rope going to catch on that little bit of stub,


also be sure rope is running under the working line
see how it is caught on that little stub, and how it goes under the other line. The weight of the chunk will hold it in place, so long as it falls just right. You could conceivably use a 5/8 rope on a stub that size on a really big tree. Like I said good to know, bad to do. I've only done it with 3 strand rope and haven't done it for many years. But I've done it working by my self. you can control the branch from up in the tree letting it run, I would do one , pull up the other end and use it. then climb down and untie them. Some times you got to do what you got to do.
I have nice shiny pulleys now. their sweet with a cow hitch. We all know leaving stubs will always bit you in the ass at some point, on a removal also.


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## Peter.s (Jul 12, 2014)

what if there is no nub - I was working on a stalk with no nubs and making a notch in the tree was mentioned before I herd forget about it.

I dont plan on using this every day but you never know when it might come in handy...


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## cupar (Jul 12, 2014)

this method is very hard on the rope as I've said before but has worked for me on every load until I got a load I estimate at 450lbs which was 20-22" diameter 8-10' long hard wood (it was a while ago) where the bottom wrap slide about 5'. I compare this method as using all season tires in winter time. People do it constantly but a set of winter's (rigging tools) will do the job alot better. It's worked consistently for me and the other 15 aerials that work monday to friday/saturday 7-5 without incident for years. I've think out of our 10 crews doing residential and city removals there's 2 sets of proper rigging gear which were bought by the person on that crew. 1 set is usually left at home FWIW as our ropes are cheap but our storage space and time isn't. 





The is the view from me in the tree. The top knot will usually be 4-6" down from where I topped the tree. Sometimes I'll add a third or fourth wrap if it's a long piece. My cut will be from the left side above the bottom rope and below the second from the top rope.





I'll cut it directly at the camera.





leaving the piece like this where it can be lowered slowly from the ground, adding wraps as necessary for weight.


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## Pelorus (Jul 12, 2014)

Never negative block a broccoli stalk; they are devious little devils.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

Peter.s said:


> what if there is no nub - I was working on a stalk with no nubs and making a notch in the tree was mentioned before I herd forget about it.
> 
> I dont plan on using this every day but you never know when it might come in handy...



What happens if there is no nub is that they pretend there is one cause that's all they know then the whole 450 pound ( not counting dynamics) load comes screaming loose.

I have never ever been in a situation where I needed to do this technique in 25 years. Never even crossed my mind. Well it did, then I remember one of the simple yet complex rules about never crossing ropes like that.

It is not in the video that was shown. Why?

There should be a sticky for all you 101'ers to tell you what not to do or even mention. First on the list would be not to take advice from each other.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

cupar said:


> this method is very hard on the rope as I've said before but has worked for me on every load until I got a load I estimate at 450lbs which was 20-22" diameter 8-10' long hard wood (it was a while ago) where the bottom wrap slide about 5'. I compare this method as using all season tires in winter time. People do it constantly but a set of winter's (rigging tools) will do the job alot better. It's worked consistently for me and the other 15 aerials that work monday to friday/saturday 7-5 without incident for years. I've think out of our 10 crews doing residential and city removals there's 2 sets of proper rigging gear which were bought by the person on that crew. 1 set is usually left at home FWIW as our ropes are cheap but our storage space and time isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



By the hairs on yer nutsack. Or Zen. I can only imagine its one or the other holding that rigging up.

Dude, bro, you might as well be raping a baby. You have some sick twisted **** going on. City work? Oh boy!


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 12, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> Never negative block a broccoli stalk; they are devious little devils.



On a block I will.


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## cupar (Jul 12, 2014)

Another option when you can, and have time to do it is to cut small manageable pieces that you can throw down. This usually means you have a drop zone you can chuck wood to.


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## no tree to big (Jul 13, 2014)

cupar said:


> this method is very hard on the rope as I've said before but has worked for me on every load until I got a load I estimate at 450lbs which was 20-22" diameter 8-10' long hard wood (it was a while ago) where the bottom wrap slide about 5'. I compare this method as using all season tires in winter time. People do it constantly but a set of winter's (rigging tools) will do the job alot better. It's worked consistently for me and the other 15 aerials that work monday to friday/saturday 7-5 without incident for years. I've think out of our 10 crews doing residential and city removals there's 2 sets of proper rigging gear which were bought by the person on that crew. 1 set is usually left at home FWIW as our ropes are cheap but our storage space and time isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have used this method.many times yes hard on ropes mainly only use it on half inch lines cause we have a steady supply of retired climb lines to use but if done as u showed the rope can slide all the way down the spar u need a nub or crotch to hold your bottom wrap. Also u mentioned adding multiple wraps if u have a long piece that is unnecessary one half hitch and a running bowline is enough down low (obviously high enuff and secure enuff it won't slip) I always try and put my bowline above a nub branch or even just a sucker to prevent the piece from sliding out. This method.is virtually useless on smooth perfectly verticle spars


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## cupar (Jul 13, 2014)

no tree to big said:


> We have used this method.many times yes hard on ropes mainly only use it on half inch lines cause we have a steady supply of retired climb lines to use but if done as u showed the rope can slide all the way down the spar u need a nub or crotch to hold your bottom wrap. Also u mentioned adding multiple wraps if u have a long piece that is unnecessary one half hitch and a running bowline is enough down low (obviously high enuff and secure enuff it won't slip) I always try and put my bowline above a nub branch or even just a sucker to prevent the piece from sliding out. This method.is virtually useless on smooth perfectly verticle spars



This was a 5/8 line but we usually use 1/2 as well. I add extra wraps to the top piece when it's long and dead and could break, and then wraps to the bottom to manage weight. The more weight you have on the line the more friction is applied and prevents it from sliding down the trunk, As I said before I've only had it slide once and it was under a very heavy load and only slid 5' before it caught on the trunk again. Don't go trying to explain friction though some people are happy believing it's voodoo or zen or the like. I always prefer using nubs but there are trees that you just don't have that option.


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## ozzy42 (Jul 13, 2014)

When I was a much 
younger man working for my uncle,we would often hang big tops off the trunk with no block. Sort of the way in the pics above. Unc had a full one inch bull rope. When asked how much tree it would hold,his answer was" whatever you got the balls to cut"
Made my ass pucker more than once.


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## no tree to big (Jul 13, 2014)

cupar said:


> This was a 5/8 line but we usually use 1/2 as well. I add extra wraps to the top piece when it's long and dead and could break, and then wraps to the bottom to manage weight. The more weight you have on the line the more friction is applied and prevents it from sliding down the trunk, As I said before I've only had it slide once and it was under a very heavy load and only slid 5' before it caught on the trunk again. Don't go trying to explain friction though some people are happy believing it's voodoo or zen or the like. I always prefer using nubs but there are trees that you just don't have that option.


If u say so every time one of the assplunge climbers we get tries that **** with nothing backing up his first wrap it ends up on his flip line or kicking his spurs out... Dunno set up just like u did except the rope is running to the ground to the rope man vs 90 degrees to the tree (unless ur rope man is in another tree)


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## no tree to big (Jul 13, 2014)

ozzy42 said:


> When I was a much
> younger man working for my uncle,we would often hang big tops off the trunk with no block. Sort of the way in the pics above. Unc had a full one inch bull rope. When asked how much tree it would hold,his answer was" whatever you got the balls to cut"
> Made my ass pucker more than once.


**** 1" double esterlon Is good for like 40k so that's a 4k wll that's a big ass piece I think ida already started crapping myself hauling the rope up lol


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 14, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> Ok though this isn't a good Technic, and really shouldn't never be done with any thing heavy ever. I went into the laboratory and set up a scale model of my semi-pulley-less false crotch. Knowledge is power and you can teach it to people you don't like. Leave or find a small stub. run the line around the trunk,make sure rope going to catch on that little bit of stub,View attachment 358942
> View attachment 358943
> 
> also be sure rope is running under the working lineView attachment 358944
> ...



Ahhh, I get it now. Obviously it's the electrical extension cord that makes this method usable.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 14, 2014)

ozzy42 said:


> When I was a much
> younger man working for my uncle,we would often hang big tops off the trunk with no block. Sort of the way in the pics above. Unc had a full one inch bull rope. When asked how much tree it would hold,his answer was" whatever you got the balls to cut"
> Made my ass pucker more than once.




I was being polite, giving, sarcastic as a mofo when I said ZEN.


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## beastmaster (Jul 14, 2014)

Don't forget yellow, yellow electrical extension cord that makes this method usable.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 14, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> Ok though this isn't a good Technic, and really shouldn't never be done with any thing heavy ever. I went into the laboratory and set up a scale model of my semi-pulley-less false crotch. Knowledge is power and you can teach it to people you don't like. Leave or find a small stub. run the line around the trunk,make sure rope going to catch on that little bit of stub,View attachment 358942
> View attachment 358943
> 
> also be sure rope is running under the working lineView attachment 358944
> ...



Not exactly like " false crotching" , this is more like natural crotching because the rope does not run over itself , it runs through the crotch.


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## beastmaster (Jul 14, 2014)

The method I posted is a crude but doable Technic. I'm not so sure about the other method using the rope to catch its self. When ever two ropes come together like that they can cut or melt throu one another. There has been fatal accidents cause by rope crossing rope friction, and it should be avoided always at all cost. This isn't my opinion, but a known fact. It's not that hard especially using a adjustable sling(woopie) to move a block down after each cut. The starter of this thread should forget this technic, and maybe ask, what's the proper,fastest safest way to block down a spar. This way you'll be learning something that'll help you not hurt you .


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 14, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> The method I posted is a crude but doable Technic. I'm not so sure about the other method using the rope to catch its self. When ever two ropes come together like that they can cut or melt throu one another. There has been fatal accidents cause by rope crossing rope friction, and it should be avoided always at all cost. This isn't my opinion, but a known fact. It's not that hard especially using a adjustable sling(woopie) to move a block down after each cut. The starter of this thread should forget this technic, and maybe ask, what's the proper,fastest safest way to block down a spar. This way you'll be learning something that'll help you not hurt you .



I am not sure its against ANSI but I will never run rope over itself. I won't even use the munter. I am a little angered by people who " false crotch" , they are hacks to me.

Its not Cupar who has separated himself from me but me who has separated myself from him and it was long ago.

It just seems things are being taken for granted. The spiking of prune jobs, free climbing, " false crotching", baseball caps - all seem to be related. Ya know, I can't stand to see it but love to watch it if you know what I mean.


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## TreeAce (Jul 14, 2014)

I didnt have the patience to read all the posts so if this has been said already then just nevermind. To me, false crotching a spar down is done by carefully cutting a groove on the back side of the spar for the rope to ride in. then you rig tthe piece to be lowered with a simple half hitch being careful to have the tail end of the rope (going down to the groundie) laying in the proper direction so as not to have the rope lay over its self when the piece being dropped comes over. That would cause what we always called a "crows foot". False crotching like this not fun and kinda dangerous. I may have some extra time tomorrow and maybe I will get spunky and at least set one up and take some pictures. It is easier and safer to use a block. But I may do one just for old times sake tomorrow


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## TreeAce (Jul 15, 2014)

This is a false crotch. At least it is in my opinion.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 16, 2014)

Agreed. Why go back in time.


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## VA-Sawyer (Jul 17, 2014)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Agreed. Why go back in time.


To watch cavemen do take downs!


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 17, 2014)

In my eyes, so many old school techniques always come down to time and money. Saving time and money, at the expense of safety and reliability.


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## Chuck D (Jul 18, 2014)

If you go to purchase a lowering block just a simple pulley block with the proper weight rating and attach it below your cut. and bring your lowering line up through the block Halfhitch slipknot or some other means of securing it , cu, t push the block over it should fall down and catch through the lowering block as long as you have the bottom of the lower rope secure. Or check you tube 'Blocking down a spar'


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## B Harrison (Jul 19, 2014)

Zale said:


> Thats old school. Gives you less control and tears up your ropes. Your friend is bs'ing you.


It will burn the crap out of the rope, and I have never done it, but it seems like it would be hard on the ground man as well as the climber not being able to just get the rope back up with a gentle tug. I was thinking a block and lowering rope is about the standard for lowering the parts of a stem, stalk, spar..........

If he had a better way, but refused to tell you he was most likely blowing smoke anyway.
Like when people next door who work in banks, tell you what they would do or how they would do it.


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## bob-o (Jul 26, 2014)

You are all haters.. dude said it works for him.. does it affect you how people rig? Nothing but squares.. yes, I use proper equipment as well as improvised rigging techniques.. reading these replies of name calling and judgment lead me to believe that 1 some of you don't have the sack to rig in a pinch so you justify your insecurities by trash talk or 2 you just can't do it. If it isn't a routine that has been spelled out for you in the past you are incapable of putting together a rig.. Don't be mad at the guy that can use his head when need be or that he can rig with less and that he is a better climber than you. Don't work with the dude. It is quite simple


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 26, 2014)

" I said I never had much use for it, I never said I didn't know how to use it." Matthew Quigley

The purpose of these forums is to share knowledge and move this industry forwards, not backwards.


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