# Fabricating a new splitting wedge



## genesis5521 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi Guys:

I got a nice Hobart Stickmate AC/DC stick welder for my birthday last year. Don't know how to weld, but layed down a few beads and got two pieces of metal to stick together. Hammered the heck outta them, and they held. It weren't pretty, but the welds were strong. I had read everything I could on welding, and watched a ton of videos. I'll never be "a welder". But I wanna fabricate a few simple things.

I wanna fabricate a slip-on 4-way wedge for my splitter.
What kinda metal should I use and how thick should the metal be?

Thanks guys, and Merry Christmas.

Don <><


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## Hank Chinaski (Dec 14, 2011)

Not trying to discourage you, but 20-30k tons of force against a "learning" weld doesn't sound like I'd like to be standing next to it if it decided to let go.

I'd start with at least 3/4" steel with the leading edges ground to a point and interlock the pieces so that the weld wasn't the only thing holding them together (ie cut a 3/4" wide slot in the center bottom edge of one and the center top edge of the other so they'll slide together and then you weld between the "legs" of the joints of the "X". Then I'd full weld any wings on as solidly as possible. 

It's not impossible, but I"d pay very close attention to what I was doing while making it, as it'd be easy to reach out and bite you if done without respect


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## genesis5521 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hank Chinaski said:


> Not trying to discourage you, but 20-30k tons of force against a "learning" weld doesn't sound like I'd like to be standing next to it if it decided to let go.
> 
> I'd start with at least 3/4" steel with the leading edges ground to a point and interlock the pieces so that the weld wasn't the only thing holding them together (ie cut a 3/4" wide slot in the center bottom edge of one and the center top edge of the other so they'll slide together and then you weld between the "legs" of the joints of the "X". Then I'd full weld any wings on as solidly as possible.
> 
> It's not impossible, but I"d pay very close attention to what I was doing while making it, as it'd be easy to reach out and bite you if done without respect



Thanks Hank. You bring up a good point concerning a raw rookie welder (me). I may not do the 4-way thing just yet. My splitter wedge isn't very tall. Maybe I'll just make a taller one (maybe 3 inches taller and no 4-way) to slip over the wedge that's on the splitter now. The splitter I use is a little 4 ton Ryobi electric. It does an OK job, but I have to manually pull apart any "stringy" splits on bigger rounds. I'm probably just looking for an excuse to use my birthday present. So I'll get some 3/4 steel and grind/weld away. I'll figure out a safe way to test it.

Thanks for your input.

Don <><


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## One Shot Will (Dec 14, 2011)

We have a Tech school in town at the college that would have one night a week for 6 to 8 weeks.
Makes a very good beginners class. Do you have something like that close. 
I have been welding for 45 + years and it is not that hard - just need someone to show you and
then lots of practice. Find a scrap yard and get some pieces to weld on. just takes time. When you get them full of welds
take them back and trade for some more.
Good luck to you and have fun.


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## genesis5521 (Dec 14, 2011)

One Shot Will said:


> We have a Tech school in town at the college that would have one night a week for 6 to 8 weeks.
> Makes a very good beginners class. Do you have something like that close.
> I have been welding for 45 + years and it is not that hard - just need someone to show you and
> then lots of practice. Find a scrap yard and get some pieces to weld on. just takes time. When you get them full of welds
> ...



Thanks for your encouragement Will. Fact is, I'm a computer instructor at a technical college, and I know a few welding instructors. They gave me a few pointers. My neighbor is a maintenance supervisor at his plant and showed me a few things and will help me with this simple project to get me started. When I first got this welder, and set it up, I called him over to make sure I wouldn't kill myself. He checked things out and said, "OK. Show me what ya got". So I laid down a few beads. He said they looked "OK". Then he said, "Now do that 500 more times!"

Merry Christmas to you and yours Will.
(Wish I knew as much about welding as you do.)

Don <><


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## old cookie (Dec 15, 2011)

It isnt like it will blowup. have at it if it looks ok try it.If it doesnt grind it out and try try again. 7024 rod will make you think you are a expert.7018 will make you realize you arent. get some 6011 or 6013 and 7024.1/8 inch and some scrap.Start hot that makes it easyer.7024 will weld pretty muchby itself just drag it.have fun


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## saw dog (Dec 15, 2011)

*Learning to weld*

Hi Don
Like earlier stated allways bevel your work to its entire depth, figure in your fab deminsions a gap 1/32 less than the thickness of your root pass rod. I use Lincoln 5P for the root pass and
7018 for build up and cover passes. Welding 3/4 in. stock it takes numerouse passes to weld it properly. Using 7018 allways keep your rod as close as possible 90 degrees to your work, run hot as you can handle it and keep your puddle ahead of the flux flow. On 3/4 in. material you need to run multupal stringer passes paralell to each other to build up the field. You know you have the temprature right when the last 2 to 3 inches of the rod turns cherry red all the way to the stinger. Never drag 7018, you must work the heat ahead of your puddle to keep a puddle pocket burned out ahead of your puddle for perfect penetration and never let the flux encoumpus the puddle or you will end with a slag filled weld. If your temp. is right as the weld cools the slag from 7018 will allmost all releas it,s self from the weld as it cools. If and when you end up with slag in the weld, you must gring it out if you want a strong weld. It just takes patients and lots of practice but I am sure you can master it.


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## fdoberman (Dec 15, 2011)

It's been puzzling me for a number of years, I fully understand the pimplefaced kid in the vest over there to HomoDesperate where I'm BANNED, and his cousin in the blue vest down the road at Blows know more about welding than I do, and as long as you have money they'll stroke your ego and sell you a genuine immitation welding machine. You buy this machine and you can weld a battle tank out of gutter pipe in your back yard sir. Them vestboys attended training you know, genuine videos put out by Lincoon and HoFart.

Thing is I been welding, NOT STICKING TOGETHER hunks of metal for close onto 50 years now, and there are days when I do some scratching where hair used to be coming up with an idea. Honestly all the welds are made in my head before the machine turns on, and truly I can generally show somebody a lot faster and easier than I can explain the job.

By my thinking companies that sell welders are in the business of moving as many welders as they can, and they don't care 90% of the machines sit on shelves collecting dust as long as the shelf ain't in the company warehouse. The Internet gave us a whole lot of welding experts spitting advice, oddly most seem to last about till their Unemployment runs out.

Long and short of it Don, stop by and in half an hour I'll teach you how to weld that wedge up. I'll even let you run a real Lincoln doing it. It'll take you about 3 months of practice after I'm done to be worth diddle.

BTW Don, couple months ago my puter crapped out, so I fired up the standby Dell. I was all set to put files on the Dell when the portable hard drive fell off the desk. How can I get my files on the Dell?


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## Fifelaker (Dec 15, 2011)

I dont think the little Ryobi has enough umph to use a 4-way wedge. If the splitter is not making two pieces I can't see it making 4. I suggest welding a bigger splitter with a 4-way good luck.


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## zogger (Dec 15, 2011)

genesis5521 said:


> Thanks for your encouragement Will. Fact is, I'm a computer instructor at a technical college, and I know a few welding instructors. They gave me a few pointers. My neighbor is a maintenance supervisor at his plant and showed me a few things and will help me with this simple project to get me started. When I first got this welder, and set it up, I called him over to make sure I wouldn't kill myself. He checked things out and said, "OK. Show me what ya got". So I laid down a few beads. He said they looked "OK". Then he said, "Now do that 500 more times!"
> 
> Merry Christmas to you and yours Will.
> (Wish I knew as much about welding as you do.)
> ...



You are lucky. I looked around for a welding school/night class and nothing in my area close enough I would be willing to drive to. 

As a consequence I still suck at welding. I know trial and error and so forth, just would rather skip the wasting expensive rods part, especially trying to fix something I really need fixed here.. Heck, I don't even know which rods for whatever metal or thickness or what settings to use. Boss dropped off an old lincoln stick welder he got some place, said here ya go, have fun! Well, ya, but..... I had to fix the wires(the welding cables themselves) so they didn't short out, then the thing has no knob on the amp adjustment, put some vice grips on it, lol...and then it blows the circuit breaker if I turn it up too high....

Sometimes this on the job training on the farm is lacking a little....


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## genesis5521 (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm the OP. Thanks for your help guys.
One more question. What *KIND* of steel should I use.
When I look steel up on the internet, I find hot rolled flat bar steel, cold finish flat bar steel, etc. etc.
I was using this website: Metals Depot® - Buy Small Quantity Metal Online! Steel, Aluminum, Stainless, Brass

Don <><


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## blackdogon57 (Dec 15, 2011)

The worst thing that can happen with a splitting wedge is that the weld will break - so go for it. If it breaks you need to work on your welds. 
I have broken my six way hardened steel wedge 3 or 4 times. They seem to break easily when it is really cold. Even when welded by a pro they have still broken just about as often as when I do a hack job myself.


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## CJ1 (Dec 15, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> It's been puzzling me for a number of years, I fully understand the pimplefaced kid in the vest over there to HomoDesperate where I'm BANNED, and his cousin in the blue vest down the road at Blows know more about welding than I do, and as long as you have money they'll stroke your ego and sell you a genuine immitation welding machine. You buy this machine and you can weld a battle tank out of gutter pipe in your back yard sir. Them vestboys attended training you know, genuine videos put out by Lincoon and HoFart.
> 
> Thing is I been welding, NOT STICKING TOGETHER hunks of metal for close onto 50 years now, and there are days when I do some scratching where hair used to be coming up with an idea. Honestly all the welds are made in my head before the machine turns on, and truly I can generally show somebody a lot faster and easier than I can explain the job.
> 
> ...



I am a Lincoln fan myself having 2 of them and sold alot of others before I quit making a living at welding. But that Hobart is not a bad machine!! Heck go to his house and teach him there. Then he can have the pride of using his own equipment. Good of you to offer to teach him. Welding is a art and skill combined. CJ


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## One Shot Will (Dec 15, 2011)

Better off with plain old hot rolled steel. when using high grade steel the heat from the welding will crystallize the metal 
and it will break easier. for a splitting wedge you would be better off with mass than high quality. 
just my opinion


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## Craz z (Dec 15, 2011)

Do you have access to a cutting torch?

Not a welder by trade but get by and notice the warmer the metal the easier the sticks startup. 

Halfway through a cold weld it gets just right if you heat the steel prior to starting the stick it will hookup instantly.

you don't have to get it beat red just get it nice and warm and it will make the process much easier. oh and don't use the oxygen button if using the cutting head attachment or you'll make a mess and have to start over. 

By the way grinding 3/4" and higher into a nice blade like point is gonna take awhile specially with a small hand grinder or bench grinder. I like to start a point with the torch and finish it with a grinder. cuts a hour or so outta your day.


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## gink595 (Dec 15, 2011)

genesis5521 said:


> I'm the OP. Thanks for your help guys.
> One more question. What *KIND* of steel should I use.
> When I look steel up on the internet, I find hot rolled flat bar steel, cold finish flat bar steel, etc. etc.
> I was using this website: Metals Depot® - Buy Small Quantity Metal Online! Steel, Aluminum, Stainless, Brass
> ...



A36 mild steel will be fine for it.


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## gink595 (Dec 15, 2011)

Here is how I did the wedge for my 4 way. I took my 9" grinder with a foundry hard disk on it and hogged away. Not easy but made a nice sharp wedge.


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## fdoberman (Dec 15, 2011)

CJ1 said:


> I am a Lincoln fan myself having 2 of them and sold alot of others before I quit making a living at welding. But that Hobart is not a bad machine!! Heck go to his house and teach him there. Then he can have the pride of using his own equipment. Good of you to offer to teach him. Welding is a art and skill combined. CJ



Hobart Bros are fine machines, white Hobarts made by IndoChinaThugWorks are little better than Horrible freight! I have one sitting here and there is no way in hell you should need to tape the wire speed pot to hold the setting!!! ITW completely whored Hobart's name. I also have a 400 amp Hobart Bros and that is a welding machine. 
Also sitting in my shop is a Miller MM-200 and a propane driven Bobcat. 5 Lincolns ALL rotary DC machines up to the SA200, and a pair of P&H TIG machines.

The OP is making an absurd request expecially given his admitted lack of skill.
He would be a whole lot ahead visiting a LWS assuming he has one that ain't Airass and politely asking for help.

His project is at best 4 hours, 1 cutting and 3 welding. If he fails to understand sequence and warp, he will make a pretzel!

Given the size machine he's working with, 1/4 hotroll plate and a couple feet of scrap truck spring for the cutting edge will do the job. Weld the wedge up with 1/8 6013 after learning to use that rod, then attach the leafspring at the cutting edge with 1/8 309ss.

DO NOT CHILL ANY PART OF THE WELDMENT!!!

Sharpen the cutter with a torch or plasma grind to your pleasure and see if the splitter can support it.


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## gink595 (Dec 15, 2011)

I wouldn't use 6013 for anything! Make a pretty weld and feeds a ego on a novice, if you can keep the slag pockets out. I'd use 7018 or 6010-6011 and leave 6013 for sheetmetal.


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## feader72 (Dec 15, 2011)

*Dont give up*

Dont give up trying to weld with stick. I first learned from adult community education program how to weld with stick at night. Once I got the hang of it, i was able to fabricate things i needed without asking others for help. Then came mig/flux welding, and Ill tell you the only time I use mig/flux is for thinner stuff 1/8" and under (autobody etc.), then I always revert back to stick. You can find so many applications for stick, cast iron etc. and you can buy these rods right from T S C, Menards etc. in smaller packs so you dont have to buy 25# at a time. Stick welding has been around for years and will continue to be a forefront in welding for a long time, they are versatile etc. I've taught many ppl how to weld just by throwing down some scrap 1/4" and putting some 6011 on and letting them have fun practicing weaving etc. and thats exactly what you need to do, practice. Im by no means an expert welder but I tell you its fun welding and creating stuff with metal and stick welding, at least to me, has better penetration, you can get a 10018 rod (7018 means 70,000 psi where 100 would mean 100,000 psi) very strong but sometimes brittle too. 

I buy my rods locally but I buy my flux core on line cuz everywhere else wants $80 + for a 10# spool of .030 flux core wire. even 2# of flux core is usually 16 bucks locally. Too much for me, I get quality flux wire from weldingsupply.com (they beat anyone local and any large box store for flux core wire) link : https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?PNUM::1:UNDEF:OR:FCMS03010
and just below that is 10# .035 flux core. You cant beat that price, its double plus in stores, thats why I always order 2 10#er's at a time.

keep on welding and there are lots of great ppl here that can help give advice if you need it.


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## Henry and Wanda (Dec 15, 2011)

Hey Craz z,
The best way to cut the point on a wedge is with a milling machine. I got my inch thick metal from a local scrap yard and it must have been some good steel......maybe steel out of a ship !!!! I milled that point to a sharp edge.......I split countless cords of wood with it and I think you could still almost cut your finger with it....that steel was amazing !!!!!!




Henry and Wanda


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## genesis5521 (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm the OP. I read somewhere that *"experience is what you get when you don't get what you expected."* I recon I'll be getting a lot of "experience" as I'll probably have to re-do this little project 5 or 10 times until I get it right. But hey ~ it should be fun !

Don <><


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## genesis5521 (Dec 15, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> couple months ago my puter crapped out, so I fired up the standby Dell. I was all set to put files on the Dell when the portable hard drive fell off the desk. How can I get my files on the Dell?



Use a bigger hammer.

Seriously fdoberman, if the external hard drive is broke, there are places that can extract the data on it for you. Take it to a computer store for more info.

Don


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## gink595 (Dec 15, 2011)

genesis5521 said:


> I'm the OP. I read somewhere that *"experience is what you get when you don't get what you expected."* I recon I'll be getting a lot of "experience" as I'll probably have to re-do this little project 5 or 10 times until I get it right. But hey ~ it should be fun !
> 
> Don <><



Yup nothing wrong with that! It isn't rocket science by any means just a little hand eye coordination with a bit of understanding and technique. The more you do it the more all of it will come together. No better way to learn than just plain doing it.


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## fdoberman (Dec 15, 2011)

gink595 said:


> I wouldn't use 6013 for anything! Make a pretty weld and feeds a ego on a novice, if you can keep the slag pockets out. I'd use 7018 or 6010-6011 and leave 6013 for sheetmetal.


*
Sorry to learn of your complete lack of knowledge and skill in arc welding.*

Your advice of a fast freeze rod for this project alone tells me you have no business in a welding shop beyond sweeping the floor.
That isn't an insult, it's a statement of fact!


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 15, 2011)

Craz z said:


> Do you have access to a cutting torch?
> 
> Not a welder by trade but get by and notice the warmer the metal the easier the sticks startup.
> 
> ...



From my experience there is no need to preheat the steel. I did some welding for a friend using HIS welder and rod and found that to be true though. It was either damp rod or his welder start up. Always keep your rod in a dry place. Easy way for good storage is to put a light bulb fixture in a metal box and store the rod there with the bulb on. Doesn't have to be a 100 watt, just something that gives off a little heat. 

It WOULD be more important to V cut the edges so you can build several bead passes so you get full penetration throughout the entire thickness. One bead, overlap 2 wide, overlap 3 wide, etc. A standard welder can not be cranked up enough to attach 1 inch steel in one pass.

Your suggestion on cutting the edge with a torch is a good point(Pun intended) To make it even easier, C clamp a straight edge onto the steel to act as a guide for the torch. Works great for a conventional torch or plasma arc.


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## gink595 (Dec 15, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> *
> Sorry to learn of your complete lack of knowledge and skill in arc welding.*
> 
> Your advice of a fast freeze rod for this project alone tells me you have no business in a welding shop beyond sweeping the floor.
> That isn't an insult, it's a statement of fact!



Blow me! I've been a AWS certified welder, show me some of your work jerk off! :hmm3grin2orange:

Here my machinery at home.


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## gink595 (Dec 15, 2011)

Know it all numb nuts here is a good read about your Bull Chit 6013 weld rod that you claim would be great for a splitter. I don't know of to many wedges made out of 3/16" material...

Welding Rods Applications

Here is another "claim" like mine that it is a sheetmetal rod....ESAB, ever hear of them 

http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson3_15.htm

Fdoperman, maybe you should have listened to those Homodepot boy and his cousin in blue at Blows, sounds like they might have taught you something.... That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact!!! HAHAHAHA

I'll leave that "pushing" the broom to you brother! Infact you can start in my free of 6013 shop!


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## fdoberman (Dec 16, 2011)

Well Gink, I'll just eschew giving the pictures any further exposure.

""Blow me! I've been a AWS certified welder, show me some of your work jerk off!"" 
As to your request for homosexual gratification, I don't go that way, never have and ain't likely at my age to find your proposition entertaining. Thanks ever so much for your offer though.

InRe your link to ESAB, the portion I find pertenent is;
3.4.1.3The E6013 classification of covered mild steel electrodes was originally designedto have low arc penetration and flat smooth weld beads. These features allowed the electrodeto weld sheet metal. Today, many 6013 electrodes are used instead of 6012 electrodesbecause of the smoother arc, less spatter and more uniform weld bead surface.
 A person with even dull/normal reading skills would note that ESAB proffers 6011 and 6012 primarily for the ability to run an open root pass, which is NOT the case being talked about in this post.
I am rather conversant with ESAB consumables (that's rod & wire for nonweldors) and find their product highly acceptable. I also find ESAB to be quite generous in providing access to information on line.

AWS Certified you say, am I supposed to be impressed by that? What was the name of your employer who paid to have you tested, and what process were you able to pass on? I had a lot of "Certified weldors" come through looking for jobs over the years. I hired a 16 year old girl to weed the BSers out after I taught her to run stringers.

Do those stickers all over the helmet impress the dullards in your area?

Little hard to tell from your picture but between that and your skilled verbiage expressing yourself you impress me as a bit wet behind the ears. Perhaps you should become an expert in residence on one of the multiple welding boards available till your Unemployment runs out. In the meantime, kindly employ Mr Jerk Off in deference to my age. 

Yall go swill a nice 6pack now.


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## gink595 (Dec 16, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> Well Gink, I'll just eschew giving the pictures any further exposure..



Hmmm, sounds like you are all bark! I think there is a reason you decline to show your craftsmanship and your self proclaimed mastery.




fdoberman said:


> As to your request for homosexual gratification, I don't go that way, never have and ain't likely at my age to find your proposition entertaining. Thanks ever so much for your offer though...



Don't flatter yourself, it wasn't a real offer but more of reference, the last thing I need is some old man wanting to gum my sack.



fdoberman said:


> In Re your link to ESAB, the portion I find pertenent is;
> 3.4.1.3The E6013 classification of covered mild steel electrodes was originally designedto have low arc penetration and flat smooth weld beads. These features allowed the electrodeto weld sheet metal. Today, many 6013 electrodes are used instead of 6012 electrodesbecause of the smoother arc, less spatter and more uniform weld bead surface.
> 
> A person with even dull/normal reading skills would note that ESAB proffers 6011 and 6012 primarily for the ability to run an open root pass, which is NOT the case being talked about in this post....



Hmmm, a open root pass you say, just out of curiosity why do you suppose that is? I say it is used on a open root pass because 6013 has a good quality of depostion and can fill gaps nicely, one feature it does have in it's favor, where 6010/6011 will struggle with filling the keyhole . But why do you suppose the cover pass is 7018 and not the almightly low penetration 6013?



fdoberman said:


> I am rather conversant with ESAB consumables (that's rod & wire for nonweldors) and find their product highly acceptable. I also find ESAB to be quite generous in providing access to information on line....



I think you're rather conversant in the art of BS.





fdoberman said:


> AWS Certified you say, am I supposed to be impressed by that? What was the name of your employer who paid to have you tested, and what process were you able to pass on? I had a lot of "Certified weldors" come through looking for jobs over the years.....



That what I say! As I will not say who my employer is here, I will say I work for a very large company that does strutural structures. I was qualified in a 1G position for flux core unlimited thickness and 2G .052 GMAW mig unlimited thickness. 




fdoberman said:


> I hired a 16 year old girl to weed the BSers out after I taught her to run stringers.



Sounds to me like she should have replaced you maybe you need to get ahold of that girl and ask her what she would use to weld structural steel with. 



fdoberman said:


> Do those stickers all over the helmet impress the dullards in your area?.



Not really sure if they do or not, then again I've never asked the question to anyone to see if it impressed them, I guess I like them and to me thats all that mattered, but just to clarify with you so you know my stance, I don't give a chit if you like them or not I think it's been obvious I think you are blowhard.



fdoberman said:


> Little hard to tell from your picture but between that and your skilled verbiage expressing yourself you impress me as a bit wet behind the ears. Perhaps you should become an expert in residence on one of the multiple welding boards available till your Unemployment runs out. In the meantime, kindly employ Mr Jerk Off in deference to my age.
> 
> Yall go swill a nice 6pack now.



Thanks for the offer of the 6 pack but you can stick in your arse! I'm 36 years old and have worked for the same company for 12 years now. I've help multiple positions while being here and I'm not worried about my employment. I've never posted on any weld forum, I'll leave that to you.

You come on here acting like you know everything there is to know and try to bully me, go #### yourself. If you think I'll lay down for you, you are mistaken. Your information is incorrect and if you don't have the balls to admit it. Everyone here can read for themself and they can contact a qualified welder or CWI, Lincoln will even give you advice from their own in-house CWI on weld proceedures. So take it for what it worth and do your own research. There is good information and bad info, be wise with what you choose and from who you choose it from. Some guy on here claiming this and that but denies to show any proof of his capabilities is kind of strange to me. If I was on here doing the blowhard bit I'd at least back it up as I did.


Since this thread has gone to hell from us two arseholes I will extend a offer to the OP:

If you want to give me the dimensions of what you want as a 4-way I will make it out of my own material and ship it to you for no charge of anything!

I will also post here as I make it and show my method on how I do so. If you're interested PM me:hmm3grin2orange:


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## feader72 (Dec 16, 2011)

gink595 said:


> Hmmm, sounds like you are all bark! I think there is a reason you decline to show your craftsmanship and your self proclaimed mastery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Since your in a giving mood, is there any chance i could get your bike for free? Its Christmas you know and gifts are always nice to receive, that bike is awesome and you got skills buddy!!!!! Im glad you guys are civil and such :biggrin:


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## gink595 (Dec 16, 2011)

feader72 said:


> Since your in a giving mood, is there any chance i could get your bike for free? Its Christmas you know and gifts are always nice to receive, that bike is awesome and you got skills buddy!!!!! Im glad you guys are civil and such :biggrin:



I'm always in the giving mood! Sometimes you just got to give a big #### off to the well deserving! :hmm3grin2orange:

That wasn't my bike I was just doing some sheetmetal work to blend the tank in the frame. And make some trims on the oil tank. Somewhere I have a picture from the owner of it all painted, it looks really sharp. I never seen it in person after it left my barn.


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## fdoberman (Dec 16, 2011)

For those not conversant with the welding industry, Gink has in his own words stated he holds a low level welding job in a large structural shop. The company he refuses to name has footed the bill to have Gink certified as competent in 2 production procedures. 

Gink has also proven his inability to comprehend written english, and that his knowledge of welding was gained by listening to the guys at lunch or the beer bar.

It's OK Gink, everybody has to get started someplace. You stay at the craft a few more years and the company may decide you're a good candidate to work the SubArc line. Hell, I been burning rod longer than you been riding this rock around the Sun. Frankly your rage is the norm from your uneducated generation. Blame it on the NEA and when you arrived in the system.


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## One Shot Will (Dec 16, 2011)

gink595

easy big fella 
not all us old guys are bitter. I also have been welding many decades (4-5) and like your work.
I also have an Associate Science degree in computer programming. I have found that my welding skills
have always been something that I could fall back on whenever I needed some work. I have burned hundreds
of 50# boxes of 1/4" 308-16 ss welding rods while working in the iron mines in Minnesota. Burned as many .060
flux core wire and .045 hard wire while building farm equipment. I have burned many boxes of 6010 - 6011 - 6012 - 6013 - 6014 - 7018
and many specialty rods they all have a place and a purpose. I say use whatever rods you wish and whatever works best for what you are doing at the time. Good luck to you in the future and do not be too hard on us old guys.
Will


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## gink595 (Dec 16, 2011)

One Shot Will said:


> gink595
> 
> easy big fella
> not all us old guys are bitter. I also have been welding many decades (4-5) and like your work.
> ...




Will, My apologies to you! My father is 75 years old and I typically have alot of respect for the older generation, when it is mutual. My dad is a old hard core auto body guy built his panels and torch welded everything. I grew up in a body shop, no day care for me. I could braze when I was in the 6th grade and learned alot just being there whether I wanted to or not. I agree on the welding rod selection, 6013 has it's place and does it well, if it was completely useless it wouldn't exist, like you said to each his own! Me and dobe just aren't going to agree with this one! I gotta admit I was a bit torqued off when I read I need to push a broom...LOL I haven't welded in production for sometime now, I have a position working for the same metal building manufacture as a construction trouble shooter and take care of problems when they arise. I've worked in the shop there for 5 years welding and fitting, then went to the office in the engineering dept drafting for another 5 years after some health issues came up, and of recent I've taken on a new role that combines all the things. I still do alot of work out of the house, mainly chainsaw pipes and other little hobby stuff I enjoy. As of late I bought a South Bend lathe and have been learning how to do some of that now. I enjoy this stuff and always enjoy a new challenge. I know I came off as a jerk off myself but it wasn't directed to any other of our older members!


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## deutzman (Dec 16, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> For those not conversant with the welding industry, Gink has in his own words stated he holds a low level welding job in a large structural shop. The company he refuses to name has footed the bill to have Gink certified as competent in 2 production procedures.
> 
> Gink has also proven his inability to comprehend written english, and that his knowledge of welding was gained by listening to the guys at lunch or the beer bar.
> 
> It's OK Gink, everybody has to get started someplace. You stay at the craft a few more years and the company may decide you're a good candidate to work the SubArc line. Hell, I been burning rod longer than you been riding this rock around the Sun. Frankly your rage is the norm from your uneducated generation. Blame it on the NEA and when you arrived in the system.



Lets see some of your work fdoberman. When a man runs his mouth(on the keyboard) as you have, you need to put up or shut up. While you're at it tell us where you work also. 

Hang in there Gink. You do pretty work and appear to be very creative. I work with a young mechanic/welder/frabricator like that. Very special people in my thinking.


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## fdoberman (Dec 16, 2011)

deutzman said:


> Lets see some of your work fdoberman. When a man runs his mouth(on the keyboard) as you have, you need to put up or shut up. While you're at it tell us where you work also.
> 
> .



See right there is another loud mouthed unable to comprehend the written word pissed off because the world ain't what his high school counselor told him it would be statement made by a wetnosed kid!

I don't "work" I'm retired! 

I sit on my as$ and collect from Social Security, so get your sorry but out from behind the computer and work more hours so the government can send me more money you worked for.

I damn sure didn't sire you that I'm aware of so I don't owe you anything. Take your attitude, fold it 5 ways and shove it. Then go tell your mother she did a crap job of teaching you manners!


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## gink595 (Dec 17, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> See right there is another loud mouthed unable to comprehend the written word pissed off because the world ain't what his high school counselor told him it would be statement made by a wetnosed kid!
> 
> I don't "work" I'm retired!
> 
> ...




Something tells me you aren't the local Wal-Mart greeter as you have the personality of a toilet seat!


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## kyle1! (Dec 17, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> See right there is another loud mouthed unable to comprehend the written word pissed off because the world ain't what his high school counselor told him it would be statement made by a wetnosed kid!!


 
So Deutzman at 59 years old is some wetnosed kid, just unbelieveable. 



> I sit on my as$ and collect from Social Security, so get your sorry but out from behind the computer and work more hours so the government can send me more money you worked for



Must be nice sitting on your arse now!! Wish I was doing the same but I can't due to your generation's piss pour money management the last 30years. What are we up to 15 trillion :msp_ohmy:



> I damn sure didn't sire you that I'm aware of so I don't owe you anything. Take your attitude, fold it 5 ways and shove it. Then go tell your mother she did a crap job of teaching you manners!



You are the one with the attitude and it is uncalled for. All this because you disagreed with Gink on 6013 rod?? You ruined this guys thread on welding wedges. This thread is another informative post here on AS that gets sidetrack by people such as yourself who can't agree to disagree and have nothing but negative things to say. This attitude adjustment must happen when retirement sets in because at one time you were an important contributor to society but now being retired you contribute less and have nothing better to do besides put your fellow person down. I see it everytime I visit my retired dad. I can't weld maybe you could channel that anger and teach me:msp_thumbup:

Brian


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## promac850 (Dec 17, 2011)

fdoberman said:


> Hobart Bros are fine machines, white Hobarts made by IndoChinaThugWorks are little better than Horrible freight! I have one sitting here and there is no way in hell you should need to tape the wire speed pot to hold the setting!!! ITW completely whored Hobart's name. I also have a 400 amp Hobart Bros and that is a welding machine.
> 
> [snip]



Uh uh... 

Hobart is now made in the USA, by Miller. I have my Handler 140 and it makes good strong welds. It clearly says on the box and the machine that it's made in the USA. It even has a Miller gun on it. Factoring in the price which is more than double a HF wire feed welder of the same rating means that it is much better than any HF of the same rating, and even some of higher ratings. 

The ground clamp they supply you with is the problem on these, it's about worthless... no contact area for the weld current to run through the work into the machine. Even replacing it with a HF not pure copper knock off of a Tweco 400 amp clamp greatly improved the welds. I can only imagine how much better a real Tweco clamp could be... might get me one. 

I built my own welding cart with it... threw the finished welded pieces/cart on the floor several times. No problems with welds breaking or showing stress.

And yes, there are limitations to a 120 volt machine. Metal thickness... max is 1/4" on my Hobart (technically overrated... it really is 1/8" in one pass max due to amperage limitations) Otherwise on sheet metal and general farting around with light/medium fab projects, it's perfect. Not to mention if you needed to bring it somewhere and plug it into a generator to fix a truck out in the woods or whatever, it is much easier to do so with a 120 volt machine. That's why I bought my Hobart 140. 450 bucks for an entry/mid level machine isn't cheap. HF welders are cheap and are one of the few things I refuse to buy from their store.

I did lots of comparisons/parts list cross-referencing, and reading reviews to decide on the Hobart over the Miller. It was worth it and is a very good machine. Why waste another 400 on a blue machine that has nothing more than an autoset feature that you don't want and a metal feed system mount?

Sorry you got one with a dud of a WF pot. You should've called up Hobart as soon as it happened. They would be happy to help get that fixed and might've sent you a new one free of charge. Give them a call, maybe they'll do so even though you're probably out of warranty.

ITW owns Miller, Hobart, and another company (forgot that name) The only differences between the Hobart 140 and Miller 140 is the autoset feature and that the Miller has a metal wire feed motor/roller mount rather than plastic. They use the same guns, same carriage/housing, and even the switches for power, WF pot, and such are the same. Different paint, faceplates, and names... very few parts are different.


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## fdoberman (Dec 17, 2011)

gink595 said:


> Something tells me you aren't the local Wal-Mart greeter as you have the personality of a toilet seat!



Gee Gink, ya got me there. Walmart rejected my application because they cross checked it against their Security log and determined I had previously been asked to leave the store for sitting in a dressing room and hollering there was no toilet paper.


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## fdoberman (Dec 17, 2011)

promac610 said:


> Uh uh...
> 
> Hobart is now made in the USA, by Miller. WRONG! Hobart & Miller are both BRANDS owned by ITW. "Made in USA" translates to ITW assembles both products in the US from off shore subassemblies made by other ITW owned companies.
> 
> ...



There are so very many differences between Miller and Hofart machines above and beyond the plastic feed drive. Given ITW's 80/20 business model the machines may become closer relatives as time goes on. Dig into the archived Hofart weldtalk board around May 2005, there is extensive admission about both off shore components from ITW owned companies. That employee was fired for stating truth.


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## AIM (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm about half afraid to jump in here but here it goes.

To the OP.
I doubt your 4 ton splitter could run a 4 way. On select pieces it likely could but I doubt very often.
That being said. If you want to do it though it would be a fun project to do. Plus it will all be with thicker steel that will make learning to weld a bit easier.

As for the welding part.
:disclaimer: "I aint certified to weld squat"
Regardless of what rod is BEST for that project or any other.
Set your machine on DC. (straight or reverse won't matter much) Set the amps to around 90.
Grab some 6011 1/8" weld away.
6011 is about the most forgiving rod out there. We call it farmer rod because you can burn through paint, rust, grease etc.
6011 splatters quite a bit compared to about any other rod plus it will not give you a nice smooth bead but it is about the easiest rod to learn with.
6011 is about 95% of what I use.


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## avason (Dec 17, 2011)

Gink595 You gots skilzzzz man!


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## 12vdzl (Dec 17, 2011)

Gink if you're ever in MI, id sure like to learn to fine tune my welding skills from you.

Hit me up sometime.


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## gink595 (Dec 17, 2011)

12vdzl said:


> Gink if you're ever in MI, id sure like to learn to fine tune my welding skills from you.
> 
> Hit me up sometime.



I'm just south of the border, Indiana. I'm a Michigan native though!


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## CJ1 (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't profess to have much experience with A/C rod but the limited experience I have had with 6013 is bad. It is actually worse than the HYP or hippie rod that was used pipelining. 6011 runs much better than the 13 but if you have a D/C machine why wouldn't you use 5p+ or 6p rod then cap with 7018 to build up some skill. I use either my mig or 7018 for just about everything anymore unless I am welding a tank where I have to seal something up then it is the P rod. CJ


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