# My CSM



## poleframer (Jun 11, 2006)

You all might get a kick out of my setup. Based on the procut design but a lot cheaper. I use 2 26' BCI joists for rails, set on adjustable sawhorses (notched in). Buildt the carridge out of a bent lumber rack, 3/4" allthread for hight adjustment. A drill runs a wormdrive boat winch that pulls the saw (090) down the rails. I wire the throttle, hit the switch and watch it go. There is a reostat for speed adjustment.
Heres a 32" sugar pine off my place that I got about 600 bf out of. And a fir I did.
The BCIs cost $75, whole unit w/out saw was < $200, scored the 090 at a sawshop on the coast for $450. 
I can break it down and put the whole thing on my pickup.
I load bigger logs on the horses with my little tractor one end at a time, then set the rails around it (trim if I have to), then roll on the carridge.
Russell


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## MotorSeven (Jun 11, 2006)

Well done, are those saw horses metal or wood? They sure gotta load on 'em! I've got an 066 on my mill, but haven't had the time to test it's limits yet....next month i'll run the :censored: outa it!
RD


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## Lakeside53 (Jun 11, 2006)

Are you running .404 or 3/8 on the 090?


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## poleframer (Jun 11, 2006)

Spose the shadetree engineers (like me) might like some detail. The bottom of the carridge is 2" box tube slotted lenghtwise to slide on the BCI flange-castors help.
The sawhorses are 3 pieces of plywood sandwiched, with the middle section sliding, it raises and lowers with a jack (to center the log in the mill), I had problems with the logs rolling until I quartered some tablesaw blades and bolted them in for dogs.
3/4" allthread raises and lowers the saw blade clamps in unison by means of old bicycle parts.
The drill/boat winch is variable by both pulley gear reduction, and a reostat. The cable loops around the end on pullys and attaches on the other side of the carridge for even pull on both sides (another of many mods).
Russell


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## poleframer (Jun 11, 2006)

I have a 30" bar with 404. I have been using semi-skip chain and getting good boards, the BCIs are very true and I have no thickness problems, but unless I really stay on top of sharpening I get rough surfaces. Just picked up some of that GB milling chain, see how that does.
Russell


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## MotorSeven (Jun 11, 2006)

Pole,
Thanks for the detail, heck of a talent ya got there....bet it's hard to sleep with all those ideas bouncing around in the brain:hmm3grin2orange: 
Reminds me of the guy that cut the logs for my first house...he built the entire circular mill from scratch, hydralics and all, and the thing was amazing!
RD


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## woodshop (Jun 11, 2006)

poleframer said:


> A drill runs a wormdrive boat winch that pulls the saw (090) down the rails.


Interesting setup, would you explain the drill running the worm drive a little more? I'm just curious. How heavy are those BCI rails? Can you handle them yourself? How do they attach to those horses, do you have a custom clamp system or do you bolt them, or use C-clamps or what. Like Motorseven says, sure looks like you got a load on them. Well... you said 600 ft. If it was oak (about 5lbs a bd ft wet) that would be over 3000 lbs easy, so I guess we are talking about well over 2000 lbs of log there right?


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## poleframer (Jun 11, 2006)

Hi Woodshop, 600 bf was the total of 4 logs from the tree. The weight of the log is only on the sawhorses, the BCIs just set in 2"x 3" notches in the sawhorses, not clamped or anything (they are tagged together on the ends). The BCIs are just rails that set next to the log and carry only the weight of the saw carridge (that I can pick up, saw and all). I suppose each BCI weighs 40-45 lbs, awkward to handle, but not to heavy to put on my lumber rack. I can easely dismantle the mill by myself.
BCIs are the standard for joists in construction these days, they're straighter and stronger than 2x8, and fairly cheap + you can order them in about any length you want at any building supply.
I dont think I could explain the winch better than the pic shows, anything in particular about it?
Russell
PS, Motor, I do spin at night with ideas, heres the tractor I buildt(actually remodeled), and the next one I'm starting on. Its a viscous cycle, tools to build a shop, to build tools, etc, etc.


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## carvinmark (Jun 12, 2006)

Wow!! you are very talented and driven.Great imagination and a follow thru kind of guy.The dump looks cool.The mill you built is very similar to mine.A friend of mine built a mini dozer that looked and worked great.keep on workin!I'd post pics of my mill,but I can't figure out how,sorry.
Mark:blob5: :blob5:


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## smithie55 (Jun 12, 2006)

That's incredible.:jawdrop: 
I really like your mini excavator conversion.
What part of Southern Oregon are you in?


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## MotorSeven (Jun 14, 2006)

Hmmm...._building my own mini dozer/excavator_...now why didin't i think of that!


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## poleframer (Jun 17, 2006)

I'm a few miles out of Cave Junction. My land is pretty steep with a ridge in the middle. I was going to buy a quad to get wood up the hill (EVERYTHING goes uphill around here), and I saw a Yanmar C10R at a equipment place for $3000, talked him down to $2700. Cant get a decent 4x4 quad for that, and didnt want to tear the place up with heavier equipment.
Got to playing with the hydraulics and came up with what you see. I can put the bed back on in about an hour, but I want a dedicated hauler.
Heres a pic of what I started with (from the web, not mine).
There are some pretty slick small tracked machines out these days, but most are way out of my budget.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 20, 2011)

Nice post. I like the mill. Simple, yet effective. Thanks


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## poleframer (Jan 20, 2011)

Just a note of caution on the drill run winch part.
Even tho the speed is variable, since you dont have yer hands on the saw, which is nice I tell ya, it's easier to burn up the saw, I toasted a top end, and had faster wear on the bars. I always stayed close enough (a couple steps) to adjust the speed when it was bogging, but that lag time put a lot of stress on the saw.
I think I'd still do similar if I make a band mill, not pushing the saw manually takes a lot of the grunt out of the operation, while the mill is cutting I have free time to be putting in wedges, or prepping for the next run.
Heres my project for this winter, always wanted to get into forge work...

hammering1.mp4 video by LogDork - Photobucket

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww194/LogDork/12-18-4.jpg


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## 820wards (Jan 20, 2011)

poleframer said:


> Spose the shadetree engineers (like me) might like some detail. The bottom of the carridge is 2" box tube slotted lenghtwise to slide on the BCI flange-castors help.
> The sawhorses are 3 pieces of plywood sandwiched, with the middle section sliding, it raises and lowers with a jack (to center the log in the mill), I had problems with the logs rolling until I quartered some tablesaw blades and bolted them in for dogs.
> 3/4" allthread raises and lowers the saw blade clamps in unison by means of old bicycle parts.
> The drill/boat winch is variable by both pulley gear reduction, and a reostat. The cable loops around the end on pullys and attaches on the other side of the carridge for even pull on both sides (another of many mods).
> Russell


 
Nice setup Russell, You can mill some pretty large logs with your mill setup. How long did it take you to build the mill?

jerry-


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## betterbuilt (Jan 20, 2011)

nice work.


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## Hillbilly Rick (Jan 20, 2011)

Excellent work, great imagination and is that a VW microbus in the background?
I've seen cables for height adjustment on a band mill, I like this much better.


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## poleframer (Jan 20, 2011)

Hi Jerry, I built that back in 05 or 06, didnt take more than a week, few days. I've worked on the 090 a lot more than the mill, thats for sure. Still using the same BCIs.
No, Rick, thats my neighbors VW, we share the driveway.


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## 820wards (Jan 28, 2011)

poleframer said:


> Hi Jerry, I built that back in 05 or 06, didn't take more than a week, few days.


 
It's nice that it is portable enough that one person can do the setup and tear down.



> I've worked on the 090 a lot more than the mill, that's for sure. Still using the same BCIs.


 
I was fortunate to find a new never bin fired 820 PowerBee motor that I used on my mill. I've found that I can run a 8 x.404 rim drive to speed the chain speed and still keep the rpm down on the motor. At 134cc's it's not working hard and fuel consumption is not bad. 

How are the 90's for fuel usage, pretty good?

jerry-


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## poleframer (Jan 30, 2011)

820wards said:


> How are the 90's for fuel usage, pretty good?
> 
> jerry-


 
Hey Jerry. I dont think so, seems I use most of a tank per rip, part of why I'd like to build a small bandmill with a one banger diesel I have (yanmar L100 10hp with electric starter), thats really easy on fuel, for its output. I think it takes less than a quart an hour running.
The other reason is the 090 is so frickin loud, I'm sure neighbors a mile away can hear it (at least I'm 10 miles out of town, not many neighbors)


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## hamish (Jan 30, 2011)

Almost speechless, your mill is amazing.

How do you plan on coupling the Yanmar to a bar and chain set up?


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## poleframer (Jan 30, 2011)

hamish said:


> Almost speechless, your mill is amazing.
> 
> How do you plan on coupling the Yanmar to a bar and chain set up?



I think I'd build a bandmill like gene's in the small bandsaw mill thread. The engine is air cooled, no heavier than a 10 or 12 horse honda, or briggs engine, I can pick it up myself.
Be nice to make the setup similar. If I turned my own bandsaw wheels, or get replacements for those 14" bandsaws around, and made that carriage simple, so I can take the engine off, and move it by hand as well.
Basically just like my CSM, but with a small bandsaw, probably set lower to the ground, use the same cable/drill drive system, and splurge the $80 and get new BCIs.
I think about the stuff I have around, and other than those things, shouldnt need a lot for materials. Just gettin through all the projects in front of it.
Haddnt ran the mill for a while, I dont miss the sound of that 090 (it was fun at first).
And the diesel isnt even as bad as a briggs running full on, just that diesel thump, thump, thump.


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## 820wards (Jan 30, 2011)

poleframer said:


> I think I'd build a bandmill like gene's in the small bandsaw mill thread. The engine is air cooled, no heavier than a 10 or 12 horse honda, or briggs engine, I can pick it up myself.
> Be nice to make the setup similar. If I turned my own bandsaw wheels, or get replacements for those 14" bandsaws around, and made that carriage simple, so I can take the engine off, and move it by hand as well.
> Basically just like my CSM, but with a small bandsaw, probably set lower to the ground, use the same cable/drill drive system, and splurge the $80 and get new BCIs.
> I think about the stuff I have around, and other than those things, shouldnt need a lot for materials. Just gettin through all the projects in front of it.
> ...


 
That diesel sounds like a great idea. Lots of torque and not much noise. Please post pictures when you decide to begin the build.

jerry-


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## poleframer (Feb 8, 2011)

Have an idea. I'm thinking about a setup combining gene's small BS mill, and my CSM. Make the rail system in such a way as to be able to set the rails at either 24" wide, or 36" wide. I'd make a wider carriage for the 090, and a carriage like genes.
Use the 090 to block out the log, then use the bandmill to saw boards.
That would have the advantage of getting rid of the bark, and square the log, leaving clean cutting for a BS band to last longer (I'd suppose what mostly dulls, or ruins bandsaw bands is rocks and debris in the bark).
I'd set it up so I could change over my winch drive to either carriage.


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## 820wards (Feb 8, 2011)

poleframer said:


> Have an idea. I'm thinking about a setup combining gene's small BS mill, and my CSM. Make the rail system in such a way as to be able to set the rails at either 24" wide, or 36" wide. I'd make a wider carriage for the 090, and a carriage like genes.
> Use the 090 to block out the log, then use the bandmill to saw boards.
> That would have the advantage of getting rid of the bark, and square the log, leaving clean cutting for a BS band to last longer (I'd suppose what mostly dulls, or ruins bandsaw bands is rocks and debris in the bark).
> I'd set it up so I could change over my winch drive to either carriage.


 
If you can set the carriage up to use the BS and CSM that would be a great time saver and it would keep the accuracy of the cuts once the log is setup. Your idea sounds like a great idea. I wish I had the room to setup a carriage system that I could leave setup, I just don't have that luxury. 

jerry-


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## betterbuilt (Feb 8, 2011)

820wards said:


> If you can set the carriage up to use the BS and CSM that would be a great time saver and it would keep the accuracy of the cuts once the log is setup. Your idea sounds like a great idea. I wish I had the room to setup a carriage system that I could leave setup, I just don't have that luxury.
> 
> jerry-


 
If the carriage was long enough you could have your csm on one end. On the other end you could have a bandsaw mill. That sounds promising.


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## poleframer (Feb 8, 2011)

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I think I mentioned it before, but notice how the BCIs dont hold the log, just the carriage. BCIs come in up to 40' lengths.


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## betterbuilt (Feb 9, 2011)

I have some old small gauge train rail I'm wanting to use. I have a 4-20 foot lengths and a couple 10 foot lengths. It needs to be beefed up because its not to strong. I think it would flex if it not supported by something along it's length. I'm actually wanting to build something totally modular. I figure I could load my truck with the mill and the Trailer with the wood. I haven't figured out a roller wheel that will fit my needs yet.


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## olyman (Feb 9, 2011)

poleframer said:


> Thats exactly what I was thinking. I think I mentioned it before, but notice how the BCIs dont hold the log, just the carriage. BCIs come in up to 40' lengths.


 
bci ???? thanks


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## betterbuilt (Feb 9, 2011)

olyman said:


> bci ???? thanks


 
I think he's referring to those glued up wooden I Joists.

Boise Cascade I joist. It's a brand name.


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## poleframer (Feb 9, 2011)

betterbuilt said:


> I have some old small gauge train rail I'm wanting to use. I have a 4-20 foot lengths and a couple 10 foot lengths. It needs to be beefed up because its not to strong. I think it would flex if it not supported by something along it's length. I'm actually wanting to build something totally modular. I figure I could load my truck with the mill and the Trailer with the wood. I haven't figured out a roller wheel that will fit my needs yet.


 I think they would work well if you use them like I do the BCI joists. 
Picture 4 2"x4" (or whatever size) box tube steel pieces about 3 or 4 feet long laying flat on the ground,parallel, spread 5 feet apart. They would have leveling screws made of 3/4" allthread, with feet, so you could level all four. The two in the middle would each have two small bottle jacks attached, with points welded to the screw tops (or just cut off the flat parts, and sharpen the screws) these would be your log dogs for leveling the log, and would hold all the weight of the log.
Your rail would attach to brackets at the ends of these (or just bolt on), which would bind the whole system together, and carry the carriage. You could basically set the system up around a log on the ground kinda like the lucas mill is set up.
Ideally you could break it down after milling, and put it away, might take two guys to load the carriage (unless ya have a hoist on yer pickup like I do)
I'm mostly going with the BCIs because I already have a good flatbed trailer, and dont want to spend the money for all the steel for a rail system, when I've found the BCI's are plenty straight enough for rails. Mine do sway a bit, but just side to side, and dont affect the level of the cut. I think I'd put some cross bracing in for a heavier bandmill.
Oh, for rollers you might look at the rollers used for those sliding chain link fence gates, I think they roll on 2" tubing, might be close enough, and would be available at the local building supply.


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## betterbuilt (Feb 10, 2011)

I hadn't thought about the all thread. That would work. I was think about wooden sleepers along the length of the track. I think the all thread would work better. The track is maybe 2inches wide at the bottom and three inches tall and it's shaped like train track. 

I wonder if there's a way to use the BCI's like the Lucas mill does. I could put my Train track on them and crank them up. I have a bunch of unistrut That I could put all thread in and do something Like BobL did in his BBBB mill. 

A while back I was wondering if a mill was designed like a boat lift if it would work. I'm always tearing them down and I have a bunch of pulleys and angle Iron. They work kinda in the same way as a lucas mill. The downfall is the length of the log would be limited to 10feet or so. Using the BCI's you could go a little farther. I think there's a million ways to go. I only intend to do this once so I'm gonna continue plot.


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