# 40/60 logger/property owner split



## Greenbay (Sep 24, 2008)

Hey guy,
I have heard this can be a pretty normal split for the a logger to get 40% of the profit from trees he is cutting. What should this include or not include. I'm looking for things like cleanup etc. :greenchainsaw:


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## hammerlogging (Sep 25, 2008)

Depends, do you know anything about forestry and timber harvesting? Do you know the value of the wood you're sitting on? At 40% to the logger, and its all a junk pulpwood thinning, yeah, a pretty good deal. If its roadside veneer clearcut, not a good deal. 

You need a contract, and a management vision, forestry wise (type of harvest, regeneration plans, etc). All aspects of the job must be defined therein. A perfromance bond and shut down clause can protect you if the logger is not fulfilling the contact during the job. Start with fulfillment of logging Best Management Practices and a visit with university extrension forester or state forester.

I've cut for guys (unfortunately) who sold themselves to landowners as "low impact" and got 60% for it, then high graded the hell out of the timber. Sure, it still looked like a forest to an untrained eye, (minus all the debris, etc typical) but it had nothing but supressed trees left, whips. he did not educate the landowner,a nd provided a disservice.

If this dude is knocking on your door looking for timber, be a little wary. Feel free to define the situation, ask more questions.


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## toddstreeservic (Sep 25, 2008)

I would say get some referals(and actually check into them) before signing a contract with a logger. There are plenty of dishonest ones out there.


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## NYCHA FORESTER (Sep 25, 2008)

hammerlogging said:


> Depends, do you know anything about forestry and timber harvesting? Do you know the value of the wood you're sitting on? At 40% to the logger, and its all a junk pulpwood thinning, yeah, a pretty good deal. If its roadside veneer clearcut, not a good deal.
> 
> You need a contract, and a management vision, forestry wise (type of harvest, regeneration plans, etc). All aspects of the job must be defined therein. A perfromance bond and shut down clause can protect you if the logger is not fulfilling the contact during the job. Start with fulfillment of logging Best Management Practices and a visit with university extrension forester or state forester.
> 
> ...




+1


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## Humptulips (Sep 25, 2008)

There are so many variables. What kind of timber are you looking at? What kind of logginng will be required? Flat ground, steep ground, thinning, clearcut? How far does the timber have to be trucked?

With the current price of logs around here I can't see anyone logging for that. Maybe if it was alder veneer or export fir and the trucking was not to far.

I think if I did not have someone I knew well I would be looking for bids from a number of different loggers.


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## johnzski (Sep 26, 2008)

I think I would try to find a consulting forester to work with on a sale. they can set up a management plan for your goals and steer you toward some good loggers to do the job. your local DNR forester can also be a lot of help. Don't be afraid to ask for help with this---one bad harvest can screw up your property for a very long time!


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## STLfirewood (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm trying to buy the wood rights to a 40acre patch need my house. The logger who will log it said 60/40 split. He gets the 60. this will be a clear cut because they are going to put in a shopping center. He figured there was about $48k in timber there. 60/40 is normal here. If the terrain is bad might be 70/30 in the loggers favor.


Scott


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Sep 27, 2008)

Lump sum bid? Scaled sale? Whos paying trucking?


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## testlight (Sep 27, 2008)

Yup, lots of :spam: there to think about.


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## STLfirewood (Sep 29, 2008)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> Lump sum bid? Scaled sale? Whos paying trucking?




I'm going to give the land owner a lump sum bid. That is what he wants. If he takes the bid then I will have the property logged. I'm hoping to make a few thousand and taking couple hundred cord of firewood off of it. With the 60/40 split the logger is paying for all expenses.

Scott


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## hammerlogging (Sep 30, 2008)

Unless you're offering the landowner the estimated 40%, sounds like you're talking about 2 diffferent timber transaction types- lump sum sale and cutting on shares. I'm confused but sounds like you got it worked out.


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## STLfirewood (Sep 30, 2008)

I am talking about 2 different transactions. Sorry for the confusion. The Land owner wants a price for all the wood right on the property. They are putting a shopping center in. My friend who is a logger said when paying a set price you always have to bid it lower then they should get on a 60/40 split. He said you don't know for sure how the timber is going to grade out. You don't know what the market is going to do. He said he thinking shares would come out to 19,200 for my part and that I should offer the land owner 16k for the rights. That gives some room if market goes south or if the timber isn't very good. 

Scott


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## hammerlogging (Sep 30, 2008)

You've got it just about right, but in a little bit of a round about way. It costs so much to log, depending on the system (cable skidder/knuckleboom, or FB/Grappleskidder, CTL, or some modified system- whatever) Certain basic stand parameters also effect how much it costs to log- skid distance,, size of timber, type of cut (in this case clearcut, so pretty high up there on productivity). So you cruise the timber, figure volume out, estimate gate wood value per mbf. You negotiate a dollar/mbf rate with the logger, cause it don't matter the value to the logger cause loggers get paid (or should) by volume, not value- cause they didn't (in most cases!) grow and manage the timber, hold the investment over those years, etc. So anyhow, now you know how much value there is out there, what it will cost to get it to the landing, you can right quick figure out your haul bill per mbf. Then, you got to fit yourself in there if you so choose to snatch a percentage, this number all adds up to what you can offer lump sum. And hope it works out for you. Funny thing is, it works out to about 50/50, depending on the timber. There are other ways you can do this honestly and do yourself and the landowner right without putting yourself on the line so much.


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## 056 kid (Sep 30, 2008)

My boss does 50/50 or no go(unlesss it Govt).

And its always top grade and more. private land's usually skin or 12"+ at the butt..


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