# Underwater Logs



## BlackCoffin (Apr 16, 2018)

Has anyone ever pulled doug fir out of the water after being submerged for a number of years? Might have a wild adventure of pulling up old growth timber from days gone by, maybe 100 years ago, and just wondering what the wood condition would be like for resale (mainly live edge slabs). Not sure how fir holds up to being submerged in clear lake water in the PNW. Thanks!


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## northmanlogging (Apr 16, 2018)

Um... don't...

Or at least don't get caught...

This ain't the bayou, and that jack ass on hacksmen got some healthy fines.


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 16, 2018)

I’m not looking to make a living with it, just a few logs. I would be working with some federal employees for a “training” operation so I would hope I would be exempt? I will mention to them that moving the logs around could stir up some locals.

Biggest concern is wood stability being under for that long, fir isn’t the most rot resistance and I know water can preserve wood, but I’ve never dealt with it so I’m running blind.


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## 2dogs (Apr 16, 2018)

Removal of large woody debris from a water course could land you in big trouble. Go through the permit process.


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 16, 2018)

I’ll mention that to them, but if they want to still go through and get it out of there I won’t hold them back. I was just going to be the haul away guy. Sometimes federal guys don’t care about county or state boundaries worst case I at least want to check these monsters out. They dive around them all the time and hopefully I’ll get to someday.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 17, 2018)

Guys do it here, with other species. Some legally, some not so much. A few different methods used to raise 'em. Super long-reach crane with a winch, floatation bags.


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 17, 2018)

KiwiBro said:


> Guys do it here, with other species. Some legally, some not so much. A few different methods used to raise 'em. Super long-reach crane with a winch, floatation bags.


Flotation bags and boat(s) is the plan to get them close. After that I’ve got a few ideas or equipment to use. There’s a loading dock there and may just back a trailer into the water and float the log onto it somewhat.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 17, 2018)

Please take a bunch of photos if you don't think such will become evidence in later proceedings against you  Always love seeing pics of different projects.

I wonder if submerged fir gets any worms in it.


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 17, 2018)

If this ends up going through at some point I’ll definitely share the process!


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## northmanlogging (Apr 17, 2018)

feds acting under fed authority? or Feds acting on their own time?

Fish and Wildlife are federal authorities, Bureau of Native affairs also Federal, Forest Service, DNR... all these guys will want a full inspection of your rectum, and that does not include state or county morons.

If you where playing in the water outside the PNW I wouldn't say a word other then gofer it, but seems Salmon are a bigger deal around here then getting some lumber... so be careful, better yet walk away.


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## Husky Man (Apr 17, 2018)

I don't know how being Fully submerged would affect the logs.

I grew up on the Columbia River, near Portland, OR, my Family had a Boathouse (floating home) at Big Eddy Marina, the float was built on very Large D Fir logs, it was more than 30 years old when my Dad sold the place , the logs were still SOLID at that point, there were plenty of places much older than our's that still had solid float logs.

It was considered very important to have the logs floating at the right level, about 1/3 of the log Faces above water, for the "Health" of the Float, it was believed that too much, or even worse, too little face exposed above water would be detrimental to the lifespan of the float logs.

The float height would be adjusted by adding either 55 Gallon Drums Or Styrofoam "Barrels" smaller floats made of old tires with a foam center would also be used.

Adding or moving Appliances or Heavy furniture could effect the "Trim" of a house and require strategic placement of foam or barrels to level up a house again.

The house floats generally had the logs spaced close enough together that the flotation barrels would nestle between them, and once placed their buoyancy would keep them in place.

Placing flotation was done with a special floating rack that would hold the barrel/foam at the surface under it at one end, then the submerged end would be placed where the flotation was needed, and the Barrel would be winched down the rack and when it reached the end would float up into place.

Placing flotation was a relatively simple matter, but removing it was a whole different story, sometimes, if possible weight would be "Creatively Placed" rather than trying to remove in place flotation, that was one of the advantages of 55 gallon drums, they could be punctured and sunk if need be, and back in the 70's that wasn't the issue it would be today .

Most owners paid close attention to floating height of their logs, and I knew of many floats near the half century mark that still had sound logs, but I don't know what a Century of Full submergance would do to a Big D Fir log, but it still could be a very Viable log.

Having that boathouse for a weekend retreat afforded my Sisters and I a childhood that I wouldn't trade for any other. I wish that I had more pictures of the place, it was destroyed by a Fire many years ago, after my Father had sold it, now it only remains in our Hearts and Memories, but What Memories we have from those days 

Doug


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 17, 2018)

Thanks for the replies guys, Northman I hear you 100%. We are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to rights and importance around here. And to answer your question it would be feds on federal time. They need to practice floating or lifting objects underwater in case a rescue was required in the future. They said they could try and lift some logs and rig them to a boat(s). I’m sure them doing that is no harm but like you said be careful of removal. I will go over my concerns with them and make sure there can be no foul play involved...at least on my end. You’re all right, a few logs isn’t worth getting fined or worse! My main concern was the structural quality of the log being submerged for that long, but this isn’t an everyday opportunity occurrence so I may just have to wait and see if the day comes.

Another question, is fresh water or salt water better or worse at preserving wood?


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## 2dogs (Apr 17, 2018)

There are some good videos of salvage logs being removed and the sawn. The Great Lakes have given up some very nice logs due IIRC to the cold water, lack of oxygen, and lack of organisms. The most interesting to me are the recovery of redwood logs (no video I'm aware of) and Maori logs dug from bogs in NZ. It is required a hake be performed before digging them up.

Salvaging redwood stumps was common around here in the 1970s. The stumps were recovered, then washed, and finally slabbed for table tops etc. I helped some guys who had a 12' bar on a floor mounted, electrically powered "chainsaw".


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## madhatte (Apr 17, 2018)

I work for a Fed agency. A few years ago I was asked on behalf of another agency for blown-down logs to put BACK INTO a waterway. Happened that I had a road full of blowdown that I didn't want to cut out myself, so it was a win-win.


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## ArtB (Apr 18, 2018)

Read a geology account of researchers doing sediment cores in lake Washington.
They got some help for a guy pulling logs up fro Lake Washington.
A few years later the guy pulling up the logs was sent to prison, not simply fined. Might try to google and see if I can find details.

Be careful, very careful, I'd not take a twig out of public waters in this state without 15 different permits and the governer's palm print on every permit, plus both senators - AFAIK, that will not happen in this state, don't know about Oregon. I think even the Feds need to pay a 10,000 bond ? 

Feds aint gonna give you any protection without a ton of paper for backup.


These should scare you off. 
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/feb/19/man-convicted-of-logging-ancient-forest-faces/
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-supreme-court/1261272.html


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 20, 2018)

Haha well this is sounding like a stay away situation, I already told the guys to look into this and I want no part in it if I could potentially get in trouble for it. Thanks for the link!


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## Bobby Kirbos (Apr 20, 2018)

DW had a line of drums called "Timeless Timber" a bunch of years ago made from REALLY OLD bog timber. Apparently the wood has qualities that are GREAT for drums (and possibly other musical instruments). Good luck!


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 20, 2018)

Husky Man said:


> It was considered very important to have the logs floating at the right level, about 1/3 of the log Faces above water, for the "Health" of the Float, it was believed that too much, or even worse, too little face exposed above water would be detrimental to the lifespan of the float logs.



Dry rot is an interesting thing. I know with wooden boats (mahogany) used in the freshwater Finger Lakes of NY, the boats typically rot right at the waterline. The same goes for the "batter boards" that line their docks up there. Dry rot fungus needs a specific level of temperature and humidity and oxygen...too much or too little and it won't grow / eat the wood. And apparently, right at the water line is the sweet spot.

It's interesting to me how the mariners did things in the olden days ... they would sail their ships up into fresh or at least brackish water periodically, which would kill the saltwater wood worms, then go back to saltwater, where dry rot fungus couldn't survive. Of course, anything above the waterline was susceptible to dry rot if not wood borers/wood worms. Saltwater wooden boats normally rot from the top down and from the inside out, rainwater being the biggest enemy and seawater acting in effect as a preservative...

Not to go too far OT...


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## Wow (Apr 22, 2018)

BlackCoffin said:


> Haha well this is sounding like a stay away situation, I already told the guys to look into this and I want no part in it if I could potentially get in trouble for it. Thanks for the link!


Sounds like freedom died. Why would logs sunk to the bottom not belong to anyone who salvages them? Back in the day my relatives had two house boats floating on logs. One day not long ago the sole survivor told me they got logs that floated down the river. He said his dad knew how to choose them by how high they floated. When I asked, what kind of tree he replied, Choctaw logs. He's very old now. He and his Sister had babysit me on the house boat and I'm 70. He stands by his story. Choctaw Logs are Choctaw logs. Guys down south salvage sunk logs and carve Dugouts. Saw some at the Franklin La. Boat show several years ago. We have way to many laws now days. My family ate out of the hills and swamps. We NEVER took more than we needed for the moment and we never commercialized. We ate Raccoon. Sometimes the dogs would tree 3 or 4. We'd take one. I never shot a sitting bird. Honor was important. Always made a clean shot or let it walk. Respected nature. That was back in the day. We never wasted food. That dishonored the plants and animals. Growing up I saw people respecting things they fear. That's strange. I respect what I admire. If I fear it I avoid it. If it threatens me I kill it. No dishonor in eliminating a threat. That's how I was raised. My grandson ask, is it wrong to lie?
I said to your family and friends but not to your enemy. His school teacher had a problem with that because she had told him it's wrong to lie to everyone. Of course he told teacher that Grandfather knows best. Ha. Ha.


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## Wow (Apr 22, 2018)

Canyon Angler said:


> Dry rot is an interesting thing. I know with wooden boats (mahogany) used in the freshwater Finger Lakes of NY, the boats typically rot right at the waterline. The same goes for the "batter boards" that line their docks up there. Dry rot fungus needs a specific level of temperature and humidity and oxygen...too much or too little and it won't grow / eat the wood. And apparently, right at the water line is the sweet spot.
> 
> It's interesting to me how the mariners did things in the olden days ... they would sail their ships up into fresh or at least brackish water periodically, which would kill the saltwater wood worms, then go back to saltwater, where dry rot fungus couldn't survive. Of course, anything above the waterline was susceptible to dry rot if not wood borers/wood worms. Saltwater wooden boats normally rot from the top down and from the inside out, rainwater being the biggest enemy and seawater acting in effect as a preservative...
> 
> Not to go too far OT...


The old sailors also urinated in the bilges if what I was told is true. I'm a sailor. Wet and drying are serious factors in rot and fungus. I burn really well all over the first 3 feet on the bottom of fence posts then tar them while hot. We built pole barns like that. Burned wood must taste bad to bugs and Tar helps keep that earth air at the ground level dry. In my new barn I latex painted some above the ground right over the tar. 
With rot in the early stages, like dry rot, white fungus, I sprayed straight white vinegar into the wood rafters. Also, paint auto Antifreeze on rotting boards. Full strength not that 50/50 stuff which is half water.


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 22, 2018)

Wow said:


> With rot in the early stages, like dry rot, white fungus, I sprayed straight white vinegar into the wood rafters.



For what it's worth, I've read that you want to raise the pH, rather than lower it (as vinegar would do) to inhibit the growth of dry-rot fungus. One theory for why borax works so well at stopping dry-rot is that it raises the pH. In the right concentration, vinegar might actually promote dry rot.

I also had dry rot beginning in some rafters and 1" pine decking on top of them, and I put chunks of solidified borax up there, and it stopped it...



Wow said:


> Also, paint auto Antifreeze on rotting boards. Full strength not that 50/50 stuff which is half water.



Yes, I've heard that, too -- and read that ethylene glycol is deadly to pretty much every living thing on earth, including dry-rot fungus, and yet apparently tastes sweet (which is why dogs love to drink it)...


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## northmanlogging (Apr 22, 2018)

twas a time not to long ago, when the salmon runs, they folks used to rely on around here, nearly dried up and blew away.

Not to mention some pretty catastrophic erosion events (cough cough Oso).

Leaving the logs in the water serve many purposes, while the wood is valuable, life is more so. 

Our rivers run fast and clear (usually) when you scrape everything up off the bottom, the fishies have no where to spread their fins so to speak, and there isn't much left to keep the river bed from washing out in to Puget Sound.


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## slowp (Apr 23, 2018)

Wow said:


> Sounds like freedom died. Why would logs sunk to the bottom not belong to anyone who salvages them? Back in the day my relatives had two house boats floating on logs. One day not long ago the sole survivor told me they got logs that floated down the river. He said his dad knew how to choose them by how high they floated. When I asked, what kind of tree he replied, Choctaw logs. He's very old now. He and his Sister had babysit me on the house boat and I'm 70. He stands by his story. Choctaw Logs are Choctaw logs. Guys down south salvage sunk logs and carve Dugouts. Saw some at the Franklin La. Boat show several years ago. We have way to many laws now days. My family ate out of the hills and swamps. We NEVER took more than we needed for the moment and we never commercialized. We ate Raccoon. Sometimes the dogs would tree 3 or 4. We'd take one. I never shot a sitting bird. Honor was important. Always made a clean shot or let it walk. Respected nature. That was back in the day. We never wasted food. That dishonored the plants and animals. Growing up I saw people respecting things they fear. That's strange. I respect what I admire. If I fear it I avoid it. If it threatens me I kill it. No dishonor in eliminating a threat. That's how I was raised. My grandson ask, is it wrong to lie?
> I said to your family and friends but not to your enemy. His school teacher had a problem with that because she had told him it's wrong to lie to everyone. Of course he told teacher that Grandfather knows best. Ha. Ha.



More like freedom was taken advantage of. Cities paved over creeks, private land owners cut the trees along the shorelines so they could have views. Salmon are mined out in the ocean by factory ships. Our rivers run and meander and many are glacier fed. They are abrasive and will cut away banks. Trees used to get fed into the watersheds by the erosion and flooding. Our population is growing much too fast and uninformed folks buy "river front" property and want to clear it for river access. That is against the law and there is good reason. Trees provide shade and keep the water temps down. When the trees fall in, they provide habitat for our much prized salmon. The poor folks who bought the river front property can be seen on TV each winter complaining that their property is being washed away and the gubmint "needs to do something about it." In other words, the rest of us should pay for their ignorance in trying to live in a flood plain. We should allow them to further degrade the river by dumping riprap along their property. That is a major pet peeve of mine--counties allowing people to build where rivers change course and flooding happens. I guess those homes might provide more fish habitat when they sink into the river. 

Our creeks and river run fast because of elevation drop and gravity. Salmon like cold water and pools for spawning and resting on their way upstream. Salmon migrate to the ocean, spend a few years there, and then swim back up to where they were hatched to spawn and die. We used to clean logs and debris out of our waterways, now we put trees back in. We are getting salmon back into some of the streams that they used to be in by putting in logs and fish friendly culverts. 

The OP should have stated what the purpose of the log raising was at the beginning of this thread. Instead, he/she made it sound like a group of fed employees was going to illegally log a riparian area because they were special. It was a bad start. 

I'd be looking into getting all the paperwork out of the way early. 

For the rest of the folks who are not from here, we love our salmon and we pay dearly to try to keep our salmon runs intact. We have a love hate relationship with the dams on our rivers that give us reliable and clean power but are a pain for fish to get over. It's a PNW thing that not many would understand.


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 23, 2018)

The purpose was to try and raise a log, maybe two from a lake with NO salmon activity. Far from logging I’d say. Why? Why do any of us harvest a tree? In some way or form it provides us with something positive. Now does that always make it right to do so? No, every situation needs to be justified, so that is why I figured I’d post on here for a little more insight and fulfillment into the situation before going out and doing something that could be potential bad. Also if you paid attention in my original post I mentioned lake which has nothing to do with a riparian zone. I get it, salmon habitat is sensitive and important. I don’t think anybody would disagree with that. Maybe you went about it all wrong?


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## madhatte (Apr 23, 2018)

"Habitat" vs "Value" is a contentious issue. We're going through growing pains as a society where we are redefining the meaning of both. Pre-EPA and ESA and all those other laws and agencies, there was nothing to stand between commercial extraction and plant/animal communities. Now there is enough law that while these things are "protected", it has negatively affected human communities. We'll get there, where there is some sort of balance, but it will be neither quick nor fun. I'm 100% with Slowp on "don't freaking build in floodplains, what are you, an idiot" and as a forester, I believe that we can manage forests such that we provide for commercial demand while keeping ecologies intact. We can serve both people and nature -- by figuring out how we fit into nature and preserving our interests accordingly. Ain't a chance we'll ever do it out of the goodness of our hearts. Even if we did, any refugia we create will just be a museum piece, as the genie is out of the bottle as regards invasive species, climate change, whatever. As soon as we relax our efforts to "preserve", things will revert to whatever state they would be today.


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## Wow (Apr 23, 2018)

Here in North Louisiana my Auto insurance took a big jump upwards. 
I was told it's because of the recent flooding in South Louisiana. 
Here is what they told me. The insurance spent a lot of money in the South and NOW, they raised the rates to cover THEIR losses. Seems insurance has ways of always making money. 
As you said, people build in low lands then WE must pay for their mistake. Much of the Southern of this state is flood prone. Even in Shreveport LA. there are flood prone places where part time it's beautiful to see so here comes Realtors, builders and Bankers putting expensive homes in places to low. Eventually it floods and guess who pays. We do. Yes the earth is over crowded. There are many unwed women having baby after baby and not holding a job. We pay for that. As a Nation we need to get tough on that. But, in time the circle closes. Nothing will last unchanged forever. Some day Mankind will be an extinct species and time will repair mother earth. We were handed a great gift and greed, disrespect, and ignorance will cause it to melt away like the last snows of winter. Good day


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## northmanlogging (Apr 23, 2018)

Lakes are fed by streams and rivers, salmon can be found in all three.

Riparian zones is a loose description of habitat fer water dwelling things, swamps creeks, streams, rivers, lakes, oceans, muddy spots, all fall in the riparian zones here. While it drives me nuts, it does serve a purpose and for the most part I play along.

Though certain agencies have far overstepped the meaning and intentions of it, taking opinion as law where facts should rule.

Democracy is a pendulum eventually it will balance so all sides are satisfied, right now its in the environmentalists court, slowly ticking towards favoring industry... but not i believe in a good way...


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## northmanlogging (Apr 23, 2018)

Wow said:


> Here in North Louisiana my Auto insurance took a big jump upwards.
> I was told it's because of the recent flooding in South Louisiana.
> Here is what they told me. The insurance spent a lot of money in the South and NOW, they raised the rates to cover THEIR losses. Seems insurance has ways of always making money.
> As you said, people build in low lands then WE must pay for their mistake. Much of the Southern of this state is flood prone. Even in Shreveport LA. there are flood prone places where part time it's beautiful to see so here comes Realtors, builders and Bankers putting expensive homes in places to low. Eventually it floods and guess who pays. We do. Yes the earth is over crowded. There are many unwed women having baby after baby and not holding a job. We pay for that. As a Nation we need to get tough on that. But, in time the circle closes. Nothing will last unchanged forever. Some day Mankind will be an extinct species and time will repair mother earth. We were handed a great gift and greed, disrespect, and ignorance will cause it to melt away like the last snows of winter. Good day


Married or not does not justify anything.

Also please keep faith/politics in the faith and politics forum, preferably they should stay separate.


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## BlackCoffin (Apr 23, 2018)

northmanlogging said:


> Lakes are fed by streams and rivers, salmon can be found in all three.
> 
> Riparian zones is a loose description of habitat fer water dwelling things, swamps creeks, streams, rivers, lakes, oceans, muddy spots, all fall in the riparian zones here. While it drives me nuts, it does serve a purpose and for the most part I play along.
> 
> ...


While I don’t disagree with anything said in this thread so far, all good info, a quick search of said lake showed no signs of salmon in it as far as the natural inhabitants. That isn’t to say they don’t dribble in there from time to time! And I agree, just because an agency has (or think they have) the upper hand over any laws or boundaries doesn’t make it right in doing so. I’m taking all opinions and making my own decision on this. Appreciate all the comments! A previous post I felt was more directed personally than about the topic/situation but otherwise all is good!


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## madhatte (Apr 23, 2018)

Wow said:


> There are many unwed women having baby after baby and not holding a job. We pay for that. As a Nation we need to get tough on that. But, in time the circle closes.



Unsolicited misogyny does little to advance your argument. You might want to take a moment to think about whether that's really what you want to say or how you want to say it. Blaming women for economic tough times is lazy and disingenuous. 



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## JTM (Apr 23, 2018)

slowp said:


> More like freedom was taken advantage of. Cities paved over creeks, private land owners cut the trees along the shorelines so they could have views. Salmon are mined out in the ocean by factory ships. Our rivers run and meander and many are glacier fed. They are abrasive and will cut away banks. Trees used to get fed into the watersheds by the erosion and flooding. Our population is growing much too fast and uninformed folks buy "river front" property and want to clear it for river access. That is against the law and there is good reason. Trees provide shade and keep the water temps down. When the trees fall in, they provide habitat for our much prized salmon. The poor folks who bought the river front property can be seen on TV each winter complaining that their property is being washed away and the gubmint "needs to do something about it." In other words, the rest of us should pay for their ignorance in trying to live in a flood plain. We should allow them to further degrade the river by dumping riprap along their property. That is a major pet peeve of mine--counties allowing people to build where rivers change course and flooding happens. I guess those homes might provide more fish habitat when they sink into the river.
> 
> Our creeks and river run fast because of elevation drop and gravity. Salmon like cold water and pools for spawning and resting on their way upstream. Salmon migrate to the ocean, spend a few years there, and then swim back up to where they were hatched to spawn and die. We used to clean logs and debris out of our waterways, now we put trees back in. We are getting salmon back into some of the streams that they used to be in by putting in logs and fish friendly culverts.
> 
> ...


Back in the late 80’s my little brother spent time in Sitka building salmon streams as part of some summer work program. He explained all the why’s and what for’s but I forget and can’t ask him because he’s since past away. But what I see today, and did back then, is that even the creeks in north Alabama have suffered the same fate. I don’t think it’s the farming practices back in the day, it’s more of people moving into areas and building adjacent to waterways. I mean, hell, we used DDT back then on crops right up to the creeks and in the early 80’s there was still an abundance of aquatic life. Today I wade those same creeks and nothing but houses and no fish.


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## Wow (Apr 24, 2018)

madhatte said:


> Unsolicited misogyny does little to advance your argument. You might want to take a moment to think about whether that's really what you want to say or how you want to say it. Blaming women for economic tough times is lazy and disingenuous.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Not women. Heck my girls aren't on the government selling sex for drugs having baby one after another. I was referring to that group.
Here in the deep south we have lots of those creating babies for society to care for. That was my point. I didn't want to be so blunt so maybe it's easy to miss my point. Marriage, something I joke about. Politics, something I don't care about. However, I do like to joke a lot. Have a great day.


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## Gologit (Apr 24, 2018)

Wow said:


> Not women. Heck my girls aren't on the government selling sex for drugs having baby one after another. I was referring to that group.
> Here in the deep south we have lots of those creating babies for society to care for. That was my point. I didn't want to be so blunt so maybe it's easy to miss my point. Marriage, something I joke about. Politics, something I don't care about. However, I do like to joke a lot. Have a great day.



We talk about logging in this forum. All different kinds of logging. Personal opinions on other subjects are best left for campfire talk.


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## Gologit (Apr 24, 2018)

madhatte said:


> Unsolicited misogyny does little to advance your argument. You might want to take a moment to think about whether that's really what you want to say or how you want to say it. Blaming women for economic tough times is lazy and disingenuous.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




Well said.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 24, 2018)

biting my fingers... so much I'd like to say, but won't, doesn't do any good


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## madhatte (Apr 24, 2018)

Wow said:


> Not women. Heck my girls aren't on the government selling sex for drugs having baby one after another. I was referring to that group.
> Here in the deep south we have lots of those creating babies for society to care for.



Oh, THEM. You mean "they who are not us". The OTHER. The "BAD PEOPLE". Certainly not women. 

I do believe I've made my point and will make it again as needed.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 27, 2018)

Maybe it's just me but I dig how threads on this site can go just about anywhere at any time.


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## GilksTreeFelling (Apr 27, 2018)

Did anyone bring anything popcorn to this ?


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## Deleted member 117362 (Apr 27, 2018)

BlackCoffin said:


> Has anyone ever pulled doug fir out of the water after being submerged for a number of years? Might have a wild adventure of pulling up old growth timber from days gone by, maybe 100 years ago, and just wondering what the wood condition would be like for resale (mainly live edge slabs). Not sure how fir holds up to being submerged in clear lake water in the PNW. Thanks!


That was done in Higgins lake. Commercial operation and mapped out logs with high resolution side sonar.


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## Dave Hadden (May 7, 2018)

Here's a link to a story from 14 years ago about salvage logging underwater trees and that sort of thing.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/logging-the-underwater-forests/article4087879/

Back when I worked for BCFP at Port Renfrew there was an outfit working near the old log dumps on Mesachie Lake and Cowichan Lake using an American log loader with a grapple on it. It would "fish" around until it hooked something then drag it up and stash it on the barge.

Not the same as the article I linked but log salvage from hydro projects has happened in a number of places I know of. 

Some of them are only ice-free for a few months a year but can produce enough to make it worthwhile I've been told.

Good wood and often larger than the mostly second-growth being logged so much nowadays.





Take care.


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## blades (May 7, 2018)

They have been pulling some out of the great lakes, brings premium pricing


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## ArtB (May 12, 2018)

Sidetracks galore. Main point from the original post is that WA says it owns all the natural logs in the; water, state takes a dim view of anyone stealing from it. (reverse not true)

Anyway, hope some of the comments help OP stay out of jail


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## RandyMac (May 12, 2018)

The Pacific off the North Coast of California is littered with OG Redwoods, someday they might be dragging them up.


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## hseII (May 12, 2018)

KiwiBro said:


> Maybe it's just me but I dig how threads on this site can go just about anywhere at any time.



It’s not just you.


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## Husky Man (May 13, 2018)

ArtB said:


> Sidetracks galore. Main point from the original post is that WA says it owns all the natural logs in the; water, state takes a dim view of anyone stealing from it. (reverse not true)
> 
> Anyway, hope some of the comments help OP stay out of jail





Actually, NO, THE Main Point of the original post was what would the condition of an old growth Fir log be, after being submerged for the better part of a Century, reread the Original Post.

The advice to question the legality of removing the logs, is GOOD, but was not the main point of the original post.

Doug


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## northmanlogging (May 13, 2018)

Ok, so the fir logs will be in excellent condition, so are the local prisons.


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## Husky Man (May 13, 2018)

I AGREEDED that checking the authority of the Employees/Agency granting permission to remove the logs was a GOOD idea, that still wasn't the Main Point of the Original Post.

The OP obviously Assumed the Employees/Agency HAS that Authority, and checking that is EXCELLENT ADVICE, that should be heeded, that is part of the "Side Tracks Galore" that Art B is commenting on.

The Advice is GOOD, the Irony is, that he is commenting on "Side Tracks Galore" which his own comment is a Side Track, Kind of like a sleeping person being woken up by someone yelling "Fire", better to be Disturbed, than left alone.

Doug


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## hseII (May 13, 2018)

northmanlogging said:


> Ok, so the fir logs will be in excellent condition, so are the local prisons.



Winner.


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## lead farmer (May 13, 2018)

hseII said:


> Winner.


Yeth

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## ArtB (May 13, 2018)

FWIW

quote "wondering what the wood condition would be like for resale"

the condition is like ILLEGAL condition


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## Hddnis (May 17, 2018)

So I gather you can't overheat your wench pulling logs out of the government waters for you regardless of the condition of the logs?


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## Dave Hadden (May 21, 2018)

Here's a "wench" that figured out things and is making good money and employing lots of people.

I used to work for her Dad back in the '80's, logging near Eden Lake/Naden Harbour on the Charlottes.

https://theecologist.org/2015/jan/09/logging-flooded-forests-panama-alana-husby 

Nothing much new in underwater logging as it's well established in a number of places.





Take care.


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## PG Carver (Jun 13, 2018)

If the logs have always been completely submerged under water, they will be preserved perfectly. Pending how long the log has been under water the sapwood might be gone from turning spongy and then decaying off. The only times I have ever seen real rot on a sinker log, is if part of the log was sticking out above the water line. I have seen sinker Cypress ,pine, oak, sycamore, cedar, Osage, and they have all been preserved perfectly under water. Beware.... Your sinker slabs will have some wild and exotic color though  . And Be sure to charge alot when you sell the slabs. I wouldn't take anything less that $30 per board foot for a real old growth sinker log giving your location. Good luck!


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## Marine5068 (Jun 22, 2018)

Underwater Salvage Logging is very dangerous and costly but the rewards can be great.
Here's a great article of one of the most successful underwater log salvagers of all time.
Happened on Lake Superior.
https://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/underwater-logging-zmaz98onzraw


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