# logging arcioligy two



## paccity (Jun 6, 2012)

could not find my first thread on this, but this was brought out by the boys at fallon logging . any one here set any this big? i'll bet there is.


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## DavdH (Jun 6, 2012)

Yep, and I've had to swede chokers that size, and I've broken them to, but this was 30 years ago. Into much smaller stuff these days,


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## Gologit (Jun 6, 2012)

Yup. Brings back memories of an old Swede catskinner who liked to jump the Cat backwards at you if you didn't move fast enough. He was deaf and communicated by screaming at the top of his lungs...not always in English, either. 

Makes me tired just looking at that thing.


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## slowp (Jun 6, 2012)

I have one that came with the place. It is hung up on the well house. I decided to stain the well house one day. I wrasseled that beast off the wall. Then, I had to put it back. It was a fight, but I finally got it back up.

I dug up a shorter one but with the same diameter cable and large bell on it. Now I have to figure out what to do with it. :frown: Maybe I should have reburied it.


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## Gologit (Jun 6, 2012)

slowp said:


> I have one that came with the place. It is hung up on the well house. I decided to stain the well house one day. I wrasseled that beast off the wall. Then, I had to put it back. It was a fight, but I finally got it back up.
> 
> I dug up a shorter one but with the same diameter cable and large bell on it. Now I have to figure out what to do with it. :frown: Maybe I should have reburied it.



Take it to the Swap Meet in town next year.


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## RandyMac (Jun 6, 2012)

I set a lot of 7/8", 1" and a few Bull chokers that were 1 1/4".


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## Humptulips (Jun 6, 2012)

Looks to be 1 inch. Set many of them and many 1 1/8 inch chokers. 1st yarder I ever worked on had a really big one 1 1/4 or 1 3/8. Never used it but occasionally.
1 inch was the standard highlead choker and 7/8 was the standard slackline choker when we were logging old growth.
Now my Dad who is still alive said several companies prior to WWII used 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 bull chokers. He said he had personally broke an 1 1/2 choker.
When he started out he worked for Bordeaux Bros and they used 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 on the slackline.
It ain't old unless it's babbited. That looks to be pressed.


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## floyd (Jun 7, 2012)

Looks like none those fine line chokers.

The line between bluster & youth.


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## slowp (Jun 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Take it to the Swap Meet in town next year.



Maybe I could trade with the axe/saw guy? I need a choker packer though. Or I could just take the short one, I can carry it.


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## paccity (Jun 7, 2012)

Humptulips said:


> Looks to be 1 inch. Set many of them and many 1 1/8 inch chokers. 1st yarder I ever worked on had a really big one 1 1/4 or 1 3/8. Never used it but occasionally.
> 1 inch was the standard highlead choker and 7/8 was the standard slackline choker when we were logging old growth.
> Now my Dad who is still alive said several companies prior to WWII used 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 bull chokers. He said he had personally broke an 1 1/2 choker.
> When he started out he worked for Bordeaux Bros and they used 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 on the slackline.
> It ain't old unless it's babbited. That looks to be pressed.



looked at it closer and the ends are babbited..


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## slowp (Jun 7, 2012)

Can you please define babbited?


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## Metals406 (Jun 7, 2012)

slowp said:


> Can you please define babbited?



Patty, Babbitt is melted like lead, and poured for bearings, or in this case -- to retain the mouse.

Soldering the end on, essentially. Babbitt is expensive to buy these days, mostly purchased to re-bearing old machines.


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## Sport Faller (Jun 7, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Patty, Babbitt is melted like lead, and poured for bearings, or in this case -- to retain the mouse.
> 
> Soldering the end on, essentially. Babbitt is expensive to buy these days, mostly purchased to re-bearing old machines.



WRONG!

Babbitt is infact, Charlie Babbitt, the egomaniacal high end car dealer portrayed by Tom Cruise in Rain Man :jester::jester::jester:


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## Metals406 (Jun 7, 2012)

Ummmmm. . . Who gave Jake sugar?


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## Sport Faller (Jun 7, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Ummmmm. . . Who gave Jake sugar?



Pop Rocks and Diet Mtn. Dew is a helluva drug


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## slowp (Jun 7, 2012)

The one I dug up is short and has an eye spliced on the end. I think it was used for hooking a guyline to or something. 

You Montannians better get you boats out if you get our weather. We just had a downpour that maxed out the gutters. The weather controller has a sick sense of humor. Just before, the sun came out and the birds began to sing. Then, the SMITE button was pushed....:msp_sad:


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## Metals406 (Jun 7, 2012)

slowp said:


> The one I dug up is short and has an eye spliced on the end. I think it was used for hooking a guyline to or something.
> 
> You Montannians better get you boats out if you get our weather. We just had a downpour that maxed out the gutters. The weather controller has a sick sense of humor. Just before, the sun came out and the birds began to sing. Then, the SMITE button was pushed....:msp_sad:



Oh yeah, we're fix'n to be smote as well. Today's pretty nice, then 5 days of Noah's Arc weather. 

I'm not saying I want 85° and clear skies. . . Just a little warmer and less moist-ish. I had thick frost on the truck windows this morning -- it got below freezing last night. 

Howz Ben doing today? His hips still hurting him?


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## Gologit (Jun 7, 2012)

slowp said:


> The one I dug up is short and has an eye spliced on the end. I think it was used for hooking a guyline to or something.
> 
> You Montannians better get you boats out if you get our weather. We just had a downpour that maxed out the gutters. The weather controller has a sick sense of humor. Just before, the sun came out and the birds began to sing. Then, the SMITE button was pushed....:msp_sad:



Might be a Cat choker. If so, you being a yarder fanatic and all, you'll have to get rid of it. :msp_biggrin:


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## slowp (Jun 7, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Oh yeah, we're fix'n to be smote as well. Today's pretty nice, then 5 days of Noah's Arc weather.
> 
> I'm not saying I want 85° and clear skies. . . Just a little warmer and less moist-ish. I had thick frost on the truck windows this morning -- it got below freezing last night.
> 
> Howz Ben doing today? His hips still hurting him?



He is fine. We went on a 3 mile walk today. The Grapple Cat is tormenting him.

He landed wrong when getting out of the trailer Monday morning. He just sat for a minute or two, whimpering. I got him to hobble around on a short potty walk then put him in the pickup. He wanted out near Ritzville. I got him out and he was fine. He's been fine since. If the rain stops, I plan to get out the dog ramp and see if it works for the trailer.


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## Metals406 (Jun 8, 2012)

That Grapple Cat is bossy!


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## slowp (Jun 8, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> That Grapple Cat is bossy!



It could be worse. Thank goodness he's a little cat. I'd hate to meet up with a cougar with the same attitude. I'm waiting for the latest flood from the sky to stop so I can run out for some firewood. There was a landslide to the NW of here this morning. Fun in June. :msp_ohmy:


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## OlympicYJ (Jun 8, 2012)

Hangin on the iron pile at home 

I'll have more tomarrow lol

Sorry it's not turned correctly lol


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## tramp bushler (Jun 8, 2012)

DavdH said:


> Yep, and I've had to swede chokers that size, and I've broken them to, but this was 30 years ago. Into much smaller stuff these days,



Hey, you know what puttin a Swede on is. cool. ! 
It looks a little bigger than 1"+1/8 . We always ran 1,1/4-1,3/8 mainline on the yarders I worked under. . I've set some 1+1/8. . We always tried to get more lift instead of bigger snares .. Easier on the mainline. 

that looks like a babbited nubbin.


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## slowp (Jun 8, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Hangin on the iron pile at home
> 
> I'll have more tomarrow lol
> 
> Sorry it's not turned correctly lol




All I can see is a red X.


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## tramp bushler (Jun 8, 2012)

all I ser is a blue? mark.


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## Metals406 (Jun 9, 2012)

Me no see picture either.


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## slowp (Jun 9, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> all I ser is a blue? mark.



Yer obviously wrong. It is a red X.

Shall we make this a west coast vs east coast thing???:msp_rolleyes: I say it is red! :smile2:


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## Dave Hadden (Jun 9, 2012)

When I started in the logging industry at Gold River we had a Blacksmith working in the shop and he made all the chokers and other assorted lines required to run the six sides operating at the time. That was 1969. As the Warehouseman/Buyer I bought all the rigging materials that old John used, from the knobs and bells to the babbit and wire rope. That old bugger could make darn near anything that required working metal(s) on a forge and I watched him pour babbit into the flared out wire rope just above the knob to firmly attach one to the other many times.
Between old John on the forge and old Reg Pidcock in the machine shop there wasn't much we couldn't make right in the shop.

And the term "Sweded" used in conjunction with the use of chokers meant you hooked the knob from one choker to the bell of another and vice versa in order to increase the "strength" of your chokers. The problem with that is you could overpower the "strength" of your mainline and have the mainline break as a result.
This is exactly what happened at BCFP Port Renfrew in the early '80's when a guy working in the landing was nailed by several hundred feet of mainline that broke at the chokered end and sprung back on him like an elastic band. He was from one of the Finnish families in Port Renfrew and survived the impact even though it tossed him quite a distance when it hit him.
When the post accident inspectors checked things out they found two chokers "Sweded" together on a big old windfall that had been impeding yarding so they'd hooked it up and were trying to move it out of the way.
Neither the chokerman nor the rigging slinger were smart enough to unhook their setup before the inspectors got there so they were caught red-handed.
Totally frowned upon thing to do if not outright against WCB rules I suspect, although I'm not positive about the WCB part.

Couldn't have been much fun setting 1 3/8" or 1 1/2" chokers in big timber methinks.
And that was back in the days when you "ran in for your job (to set the chokers) and "ran out for your life" (before the logs started moving). :biggrin:


Take care.


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## tramp bushler (Jun 9, 2012)

I have used a Swede a few times just to gain that extra little bit of length where I could set the butt figgin on the big fatty we were trying to get to the landing. depending on the show I liked to get em right in the guts. And waddle them in with a slack haulback if logging uphill. 

Unfortunatle, in Southeast we did a majority of loggin Downhill. 
That was when you have the chocker dogs get double far in the clear, incase the tail holt came down the mountain behind you. 

The worst is sidehill/ downhill with big wood and bad tailholt stumps. .
Work a slinger to death fighting them tro the landing.


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## OlympicYJ (Jun 9, 2012)

Not too many this size left int he country. Came out of Simpson's Camp Grisdale and resides in front of our shop these days lol The cat is a construction cat not a logging one. That one is behind the shop :biggrin:











This one and its mate came out of the Promised Land country around Humptulips... Esco manganeese chokers. the pic doesn't do their size justice lol






The butt riggin on the left was what I was tryin to show in my previous post. The stack on top was from somethin back in the steam days but not sure what it came off of lol

Sorry Slowp no trickery intended :tongue2:


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## tramp bushler (Jun 9, 2012)

*boom chains*

on the left looks like some wore out boom chains. Ralph Groshon and Floyd Landphere both logged at Grisdale. Ralph was Siderod at Rowan Bay for guite a while and Floyd tended hook there also.


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## DavdH (Jun 9, 2012)

I have a twin to that arch settin' here. The one we still use but rarely is on rubber. They take a pretty fair road to get down. We have a bunch of arches that size settin' in the yard at the museum, our toys are steam engines and loggin' RR. Here is a horse drawn arch on the left


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## paccity (Jun 9, 2012)

gota couple to.


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## Samlock (Jun 10, 2012)

Dave Hadden said:


> Neither the chokerman nor the rigging slinger were smart enough to unhook their setup before the inspectors got there so they were caught red-handed.



Yes, one of those things the older guys always emphasized if you're going to apply some illegal solutions with the job. "In case something happens to me, I keep that cover in there, bolt it on before the lurks show up, OK?"

Dave, do you happen to recall any last names of the Finnish families in Port Renfrew? I admit they may be difficult to pronounce, but I know someone who might be interested.

Thanks, Sam.


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## Dave Hadden (Jun 10, 2012)

Only two I can think of right now are Virtanen and Roppenan (sic?), but I think there were one or two more Finnish families there when I was, which was 1976 to 1984.
I'll do some digging and see what I can come up with.

Take care.


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## Samlock (Jun 10, 2012)

Dave Hadden said:


> Only two I can think of right now are Virtanen and Roppenan (sic?), but I think there were one or two more Finnish families there when I was, which was 1976 to 1984.
> I'll do some digging and see what I can come up with.
> 
> Take care.



Virtanen is a very common last name. The second may be Ropponen? That's more recognizable, there's a certain area where that name is originally coming from.

Thanks again, Dave.


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## OlympicYJ (Jun 10, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> on the left looks like some wore out boom chains. Ralph Groshon and Floyd Landphere both logged at Grisdale. Ralph was Siderod at Rowan Bay for guite a while and Floyd tended hook there also.



Yea an old chain sling we dug up somewhere lol

Way before my time so I wouldn't know. Lot's of loggers from Grays Harbor were up there. Valentine he's from down here. His sister-in law is my neighbor lol

DavidH They do! we roaded it up from the neighbor who originally got it from Grisdale, used it to log his place with. There were grouser marks in the rd for years! :hmm3grin2orange:

Very nice pac! I only know of one the same size on tracks and that's the next valley over. There is a smaller track arch at the Washington Contract Loggers office in Lacey.


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## slowp (Jun 10, 2012)

The glove is a medium.

The line looks to be 1 inch.



















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## Humptulips (Jun 12, 2012)

Been gone a few days. I have to say I was wrong. After a second look,yes it is babbited. I need to wear my glasses more I guess.

I have to say the very idea that a swede would be illegal is just silly. Lord protect us from pencil pushers.

Tramp,
Maybe I misunderstood but you seemed to say you gained length in going around a log with a swede. If so that is not a swede. You would be using a bridle.
Using a swede both chokers go clear around the log but are plugged into opposing bells.
Using a bridle one choker goes half way and plugs into the other chokers bell and then its knob continues around to be plugged into the 1st chokers bell.
Bridles tend to put a good kink in your choker so were never popular.

Slowp,
I would bet money those are not inch. The bigger one may be 7/8. The other looks to be 3/4.
The size on the bell means nothing as you can use them different sized line.
I may have to eat my words again if you break out a tape.


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## tramp bushler (Jun 12, 2012)

Hump ; you probably already know this but, your right. 
I had a dislexic moment there between the remembering and typeing. , ya know all the spelling and punctuation. tryin t remember what I couldn't remember from 6 grade. 

Boy, all this english sure does [email protected]#$ up the loggin. :msp_wink::msp_sad:


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## slowp (Jun 12, 2012)

I will need to break out a tape. I would hate to be an eighth of an inch off.


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## Humptulips (Jun 12, 2012)

slowp said:


> I will need to break out a tape. I would hate to be an eighth of an inch off.



With the rust on it, it will make it look bigger so it may look like an inch measurement and be smaller. If you tell me inch that will be my story and I'm stickin' to it. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Dave Hadden (Jun 14, 2012)

Back in Feb. of 1974 I moved to the Charlottes to take up the Warehouse Supervisor position for MacMillan Bloedel at Juskatla. Upon my arrival and while settling in I discovered that, having no Blacksmith, they mostly used what are often called "quick fix" knobs, "easy way" knobs or, their proper name, spiral ferrules to make up chokers in the landing. Consequently, there was one large inventory of quick fix knobs in the warehouse, all color coded too. I think black was 7'8" and green was 1" (could be wrong) and other colors were other sizes. 
Anyway, during the year the foundry that produced all these knobs went on strike so after we'd bought up as much "knob" inventory as we could it became incumbent to not use them up as fast as normal. I think it was A-1 Foundry or IANCO that was on strike that year, can't recall for sure.
"Normal" meant that when a knob pulled off the end of a choker and flew into the bush very little effort was made to find it as there were always spares in the landing.
Except for now.

The Woods Foreman had a little chat with the rigging crews and explained the situation (no spare knobs available) and informed them that when they ran out of knobs for chokers then the side would shut down and they would go home.

I heard that after that little chat every time a knob pulled off a choker there would be two or three guys all running toward wherever it landed. They found most of them quite quickly too.

No sides shut down and we didn't run out of choker knobs at all during that period, as I recall.

Naturally, as soon as that little time was past the crews went back to their normal ways and we started using lots of knobs again.

I've often wished I had one percent of the value of the waste I witnessed during my years in logging. I'd be filthy rich for sure. :msp_biggrin:

Take care.


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## k5alive (Jun 14, 2012)

me and my old lady use chokers like that during our "Adult" time.


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## Gologit (Jun 14, 2012)

k5alive said:


> me and my old lady use chokers like that during our "Adult" time.



I doubt it. 
I know you're trying to be salty and join in the discussion but that kind of post underlines the fact that you have nothing worthwhile to add.


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## Humptulips (Jun 14, 2012)

Dave,
We used quick knobs when I worked in AK. If you pull the knob off you seldom find it and of course the wedges are gone. If you break a choker we pretty much always salvaged them. We were always short on knobs as the guy we worked for was running close to bankruptcy.
One of my Sunday jobs was to scrounge up used line for chokers. I think I cut up every bit of used haulback on Heceta Island. We found out we could make a 3/4 knob fit on 7/8 line if we sharpened the line with the line saw to get it started. Same with 7/8 knobs on inch line.
Amazing what you can do when given the choice of make do or sit in camp.


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