# School me on indoor wood furnace



## buildmyown (Jan 2, 2012)

I have a raised ranch roughly 2000sqft. unfinished basement workshop area and oil forced hot air heating system. Right now I have a wood stove in the basement that is an old garrison that needs to be replaced after this year. It is warped and leaking and is passed its prime this stove has heated my house for 30 years relying on convection.

Ive been looking around a little at replacement stoves but also been thinking about an add on furnace. I know very little about these. Right now the stove and furnace are on different ends of the basement. I have 8 inch black pipe that runs up the wall then threw it and into 8 inch tripple wall stainless. For cost reasons what ever replacement I decide on is going to go right where the old stove is. 

The main trunk line and cold air return both terminate right neat the exisitng stove. Would it be possable to tie into the duct work at that point and use the existing furnace blower to move the hot air upstairs? 

Also with an indoor furnace do they rely on power or in the case of an outage will they still work and radiate heat like a normal stove or would a need a back up generator?


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## OH_Varmntr (Jan 2, 2012)

The only thing I can help with is your last question.

In the event of a power outage, you're not supposed to fill my furnace above the bottom of the door level, set the bi-metal thermostat to low and remove the side panels. Removing the side panels allows the firebox to dissipate the heat off the firebox better than having the blowerbox still assembled. It keeps the firebox from overheating and warping/cracking.

My plan is to purchase a cheap generator though. Just to power the wood furnace, and _maybe_ a fridge.


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## gulity1 (Jan 2, 2012)

:monkey:

Ill subscribe to this one


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## ktlm (Jan 2, 2012)

How far is your oil furnace from your wood stove? Also,
6" is probably a more common size flue for a wood furnace that
would heat your size home. I could be wrong though.
Pushing air into the termination end of your duct could be made to
work but I don't think it is ideal. Insurance Co. might be nervous about it too.
If you want to heat your whole house evenly, a wood furnace is awesome if
installed correctly.


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## buildmyown (Jan 2, 2012)

The existing furnace is about 20-25 feet away from the stove now.

As for the existing flue I have always read that you can step up insize but not down is this different from wood stoves and a furnace?


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## dhopkins55 (Jan 2, 2012)

Go to the Yukon-Eagle web site. Yukon - Your Wood Furnace Company - Efficient indoor wood burning and multi fuel furnaces since 1970 Check out their line of either wood only furnace add ons or their multi-fuel/wood/coal furnaces. I have a Klondike wood/coal furnace that shares the duct work of the existing propane furnace for my home. Similar situation with your house. Living area is 2500sqft, 2200sqft unfinished basement. I absolutely LOVE my Klondike. I use both wood and anthracite coal in it, and it puts out some serious BTUs in heat. Right now the wind chill in the U.P. of Michigan near Escanaba is -15degF. My thermostat says 75degF in the main room of the house. If you want more info on the Yukon series, contact either Keith or Joe at the corporate number. Given the price of propane in my area, I'm on track to recoup the cost of my furnace and installation in just four years!! They are great products.  :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ken45 (Jan 3, 2012)

We had a Hotblast 1400 (TSC/US Stove), it was in the basement when we bought the house. The previous owner did not have any ducting for it but just let the heat go up the stairwell, which was only partly effective.

I finally took a deep breath, cut a hole in the floor and put a register in the ceiling directly above it and used a couple of sections of 10" duct straight up to the floor register above. That had enough convection that the furnace ran and the blower rarely came on. It was centrally located and did a good job of heating the house.

Ken


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## CrappieKeith (Jan 3, 2012)

buildmyown said:


> The existing furnace is about 20-25 feet away from the stove now.
> 
> As for the existing flue I have always read that you can step up insize but not down is this different from wood stoves and a furnace?



There has to be a conversation here...several items to look at. If you are interested in discussing call me at Yukon
Toll Free 800-358-0060


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## blades (Jan 3, 2012)

Hole in floor generally frowned on by various agencies. Duct work by codes I have seen must be stepped away from the floor joists by ( i think ) 2" for solid fuel equipment. There are a few other specs in relation to duct work also as the dimensions of clearance change with distance from the solid fuel unit. Then there is the consideration of AC Coil whether or not it could become overheated. Getting to be a lot of plastics in those things now days. Last but not least is your insurance company, more importantly there underwriter. I had to change my business insurance because some idiot ( in this case female, fresh out of school) did not like my business name ( name is only 70 years old) would not supply the underwriting at the time of renewal ( and i was only with that company for 20 years) go figure. So bottom line is before you do anything check all your local codes and the insurance company for their take on the subject. You might not want to mention "Wood Furnace" but in stead ask about their requirements on a solid fuel appliance. ( it's all in the semantics). Chris


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## LAH (Jan 3, 2012)

3 years ago I installed a Clayton wood & coal forced air furnace. It's located directly beside my gas furnace. I simply plumbed the hot air from the Clayton into the main return of the gas furnace. I run the air handler fan of the gas furnace on manual. For a return the stairway door to the basement remains open. It's a simple set up that works great here.

The Clayton & gas furnace side by side






Hot air collection box plumed in the main return of the gas furnace. Please note there are two other hot air lines run to the return not shown in this picture.


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## OhioGregg (Jan 3, 2012)

I will leave the technical discussion to the experts, as far as being that far from the existing furnace fan. We have an OLD (at least mid 70's)wood furnace, but its located right next to the LP/AC furnace, centrally located in the cellar of older farm house. Turn a couple of air flow diverters, and it sends the air though the wood furnace. We actually get quite a bit of heat rising naturally through the duct work. All the cold air return ducts are on the exterior walls of the house. Warm air ducts are centrally located. Like I said, this is an older unite. The auto draft control on the furnace will automatically close, in the event of a power failure. Fortunate to have generator and transfer panel wired to run the furnace in case of power outage.

This is old, like I say. But it works great, and you can see how close it is to the LP furnace. If and or when it needs to be replaced, I would probably look to the Yukon furnaces, as a replacement.

















Gregg,


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## CrappieKeith (Jan 3, 2012)

lah said:


> 3 years ago i installed a clayton wood & coal forced air furnace. It's located directly beside my gas furnace. I simply plumbed the hot air from the clayton into the main return of the gas furnace. I run the air handler fan of the gas furnace on manual. For a return the stairway door to the basement remains open. It's a simple set up that works great here.
> 
> The clayton & gas furnace side by side
> 
> ...





please do not follow this posters advice...it is against heating code.


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## LAH (Jan 3, 2012)

I’m not sure my chimney is to code either & I know for sure my pluming & electrical system isn’t; being installed in 1941. My Dad heated with a self-installed coal system beginning in the late 50’s which I’m sure wouldn’t be to code either today but would still work fine. I’m got giving advice here as I’m not an expert & it would have been better had I not posted since you were asking to be schooled.

BTW I asked every heating & cooling company in the area to install this furnace when new but no one was interested. One offered to bend the metal & supply all the parts, $7200.00.

If the moderators like they can remove everything of mine from this thread. And buildmyown I wouldn’t cause you any problems for the world.


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## Whitespider (Jan 3, 2012)

*LAH*,
Against heating code or not… I did the same basic thing 18 years ago and it’s heated my home just fine ever since. The main difference with my setup is I installed a temperature sensor in the plenum above the wood furnace that starts and stops the gas furnace blower by utilizing the continuous blower tap on the control board. When (and if) there is demand on the gas furnace (rare) the blower power is diverted from the continuous blower tap to the heating blower tap via the circuitry in the control board (i.e. rather than using the “_Continuous Fan On_” switch at the thermostat I’m using a temperature sensor switch in the wood furnace plenum). Also, my wood furnace is smallish, the heat pipe coming off the top is 8-inch, and the bottom intake is 4-inch (where a small blower can be mounted). Using a fabricated splitter in the gas furnace plenum I pull off a small amount of pressurized air and feed it into the wood furnace bottom intake plenum… thereby eliminating any need to leave doors open for cold air return (and the cold air return ducting still does its job, pulling cold floor air from the house above). I know this “loop” through the wood furnace would not pass any “code” so I am in no way advocating someone else should do what I have done…

But it works quite well… so I’m just sayin’…


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## 4seasons (Jan 3, 2012)

CrappieKeith is a Yukon sales rep. He is very knowledgeable and can give you some good advice and direction. You should search thru his older post to get some ideas. I remember one discussion about a power outage heat dump setup that you might be interested in. Just remember that he is a sales rep and is therefore going to be biased and recommend the product he sales. Not that there is anything wrong with that. He might even keep you out of trouble with building and insurance code knowledge. But there are other ways of doing things and other products that will work.


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## CrappieKeith (Jan 3, 2012)

I have to rely on heating code...it's a CYA thing.
Guys do what guys do....and I've seen things not to code where insurance companies still allow.
Heck the state of Maine is allowing wood/oil to be vented in the same flue even if burned in separate appliances..with the catch...it had to have been operating for some time proving that is has been a safe install. I've seen guys install in garages...also a no-no.

Keep in mind it's also your CYA thing...burning wood can be a great way to keep all of those $$$$$ in your pocket that you had been giving away for oil or gas....however if you burn your home down...how good of an investment is it or what if someone dies?????

The only real reason we have heating codes on wood are because of the homes that were burning down in epidemic proportions during the late 70's and early 80's. All of the insurance companies got together and demanded code....hence the N.F.P.A.


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## 4seasons (Jan 3, 2012)

What is N.F.P.A.?


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## CrappieKeith (Jan 3, 2012)

4seasons said:


> What is N.F.P.A.?


NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION
As the world.s largest and most influential fire safety organization, NFPA publishes approximately 300 codes and standards intended to prevent the loss of life and property. Members include more than 66,000 fire safety professionals.

Codes and Standards


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## lampmfg (Jan 3, 2012)

Go GREEN and do some research on the Kuuma VaporFire furnace. Feel free to call Daryl Lamppa at 1-800-358-2049 with any questions. 

.45 Gr/Hr. Emmission
99.4% Combustion Efficiency
99% Smokeless Burns
84% Overall Efficiency


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## CrappieKeith (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought to clarify...cold air returns are not to be pulled from the same room as the room that the furnace is in. Blowers can take what ever the cfm's (air)are out of that room...causing a negative pressure in that room which can cause back drafting filling the home with carbon monoxide or smoke which if gone undetected could kill you or your family.
CFM's are cubic feet per minute...this does not even discuss make up air from the outside.That's a whole other thing.


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## LAH (Jan 3, 2012)

CrappieKeith said:


> this does not even discuss make up air from the outside.That's a whole other thing.



Some of the buildings I watched over for Chase Banks used old air operated Johnson Controls & their make up air were all over the place. Some less than 2% & one over 10% if memory serves.


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## buildmyown (Jan 3, 2012)

Wow lots of info here. Whatever i end up doing will be meet all codes and make the insurance company happy. I have to much time and money invested in this house to risk anything. I also live in Mass where its getting to the point that if I fart they want to monitor it. 

Keith I will be in touch at somepoint even if its just to pick your brain a little. 

Lets backup here for a minute. How would a normal install be for an add on or stand alone? Im not opposed to one over the other from the little reading i have done and from a few posts in here its starting to look like a stand alone might be a better option for me.


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## buildmyown (Jan 3, 2012)

Here are 2 pictures of what i have now.

First one looking at the oil burner the current stove is about 3 feet to the right in the photo. In the upper left of the picture you can see the current duct work for the furnace. The main trunk line is on the left and the cold air is on the right. 






this one is looking from the furnace to the current woodstove. The stove is hiding behind the trash barrel and the pipe runs up along the wall at an angle then exits threw the concrete and into the tripple wall then up threw the roof.


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## LAH (Jan 3, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> *LAH*,
> When (and if) there is demand on the gas furnace (rare) the blower power is diverted from the continuous blower tap to the heating blower tap via the circuitry in the control board (i.e. rather than using the “_Continuous Fan On_” switch at the thermostat I’m using a temperature sensor switch in the wood furnace plenum).



I considered something like this & I'm sure it works great. Now my air handler runs 24/7 summer & winter, has for 'bout 5 years. I do place it on auto a little of the spring & fall when heat/ac demand is low. 

Back in the 90s I believe it was someone on a radio program said to put them on manual & let them run. So I did. The last heating/cooling class I had we were told the same. Be all that as it may, mine is still running Whitespider. Bet it's cold where ya are?


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## ken45 (Jan 3, 2012)

LAH said:


> Now my air handler runs 24/7 summer & winter, has for 'bout 5 years. I do place it on auto a little of the spring & fall when heat/ac demand is low.
> 
> Back in the 90s I believe it was someone on a radio program said to put them on manual & let them run. So I did. The last heating/cooling class I had we were told the same. Be all that as it may, mine is still running Whitespider. Bet it's cold where ya are?




Can you explain further? 

What I have found is that running the furnace fan continuously lowers the upstairs temp and warms the basement.

Ken


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## LAH (Jan 3, 2012)

ken45 said:


> Can you explain further?
> 
> What I have found is that running the furnace fan continuously lowers the upstairs temp and warms the basement.
> 
> Ken



We were told the constant air movement made the temp more consistent. 

IMHO the air is also being filtered more & there’s less chance of mold & mildew but that's only my opinion.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 4, 2012)

CrappieKeith said:


> I have to rely on heating code...it's a CYA thing.
> Guys do what guys do....and I've seen things not to code where insurance companies still allow.
> Heck the state of Maine is allowing wood/oil to be vented in the same flue even if burned in separate appliances..with the catch...it had to have been operating for some time proving that is has been a safe install. I've seen guys install in garages...also a no-no.
> 
> ...




Well Keith, the origins of NFPA go back to 1896, John Freeman, and the founding of Factory Mutual Insurance Co. Most fire marshals actually go by the local/statewide building codes more than NFPA.



LAH said:


> Some of the buildings I watched over for Chase Banks used old air operated Johnson Controls & their make up air were all over the place. Some less than 2% & one over 10% if memory serves.



All of that pneumatic stuff is pretty much gone now, modern DDC systems are way better.



LAH said:


> We were told the constant air movement made the temp more consistent.
> 
> IMHO the air is also being filtered more & there’s less chance of mold & mildew but that's only my opinion.



True, if the correct fan speed is used.


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## LAH (Jan 4, 2012)

mtfallsmikey said:


> All of that pneumatic stuff is pretty much gone now, modern DDC systems are way better.
> 
> 
> 
> True, if the correct fan speed is used.



Still two Chase Bank buildings here using pneumatic controls by Johnson Controls, go figure.

Could you expand on the fan speed statement? My unit has only one speed. Thanks Mike.


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## ktlm (Jan 4, 2012)

Do as much research as possible on wood furnaces. You will be surprised at the differences. Also, Keith does a very good job of advising on safely installing your system as well as other aspects of wood heat. Cutting corners on an install can be deadly. If it is done properly, and maintained, a wood furnace is a very rewarding investment. My wife will confirm that when the temp is -10 and she has the whole house at 78*.
Good luck.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 5, 2012)

LAH said:


> Still two Chase Bank buildings here using pneumatic controls by Johnson Controls, go figure.
> 
> Could you expand on the fan speed statement? My unit has only one speed. Thanks Mike.



If the fan speed is too high, it causes a "drafty" condition, air cools down, can make it feel cold in the house. That's the beauty of VAV systems in commercial buildings, when working correctly.

My old boss had a building in downtown D.C. that was still using a DOS-based EMS, what a PITA that was.


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## LAH (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks.


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## Wagnerwerks (Jan 5, 2012)

OhioGregg said:


> I will leave the technical discussion to the experts, as far as being that far from the existing furnace fan. We have an OLD (at least mid 70's)wood furnace, but its located right next to the LP/AC furnace, centrally located in the cellar of older farm house. Turn a couple of air flow diverters, and it sends the air though the wood furnace. We actually get quite a bit of heat rising naturally through the duct work. All the cold air return ducts are on the exterior walls of the house. Warm air ducts are centrally located. Like I said, this is an older unite. The auto draft control on the furnace will automatically close, in the event of a power failure. Fortunate to have generator and transfer panel wired to run the furnace in case of power outage.
> 
> This is old, like I say. But it works great, and you can see how close it is to the LP furnace. If and or when it needs to be replaced, I would probably look to the Yukon furnaces, as a replacement.
> 
> ...





That Glenwood stove is the one I grew up with. Dad still uses it with no issues and it works better than my new furnace. Love them .


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 5, 2012)

LAH said:


> Thanks.



Are you a building engineer per chance?


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## LAH (Jan 5, 2012)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Are you a building engineer per chance?



Not really, was called a tech meaning I fixed that which I could & farmed the rest out. I've worked for two companies which held contracts with Chase for maintenance. I did lite electrical & plumbing. Part of the job was PM of heating & cooling systems. I worked on hot water & steam systems both gas & electric fired. Cooling was everything from small roof top units to 40 ton. We had chillers & cooling towers. I helped the pros work on this stuff but really I'm no pro except for changing ballast & bulbs.:msp_biggrin:


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 5, 2012)

LAH said:


> Not really, was called a tech meaning I fixed that which I could & farmed the rest out. I've worked for two companies which held contracts with Chase for maintenance. I did lite electrical & plumbing. Part of the job was PM of heating & cooling systems. I worked on hot water & steam systems both gas & electric fired. Cooling was everything from small roof top units to 40 ton. We had chillers & cooling towers. I helped the pros work on this stuff but really I'm no pro except for changing ballast & bulbs.:msp_biggrin:



Ok...some companies call 'em techs, some building engineers. Doing ballasts can be a challenge on occasion. I do the same thing, some call me chief engineer.


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## LAH (Jan 5, 2012)

I like chief :msp_smile:

My company wanted to move more into heating & cooling but seemed to be moving away from electrical. Just the opposite of where I wanted to go. So I picked up a saw & never looked back.


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## OhioGregg (Jan 5, 2012)

Wagnerwerks said:


> That Glenwood stove is the one I grew up with. Dad still uses it with no issues and it works better than my new furnace. Love them .



I know of at least 2 more of them in my area. The guy that does are plumbing/heating/electrical work has one, slightly larger model. And the rural mail carrier here has one, still working great. We had to replace the draft damper motor several years ago. Only thing we have done to it. That wasn't cheap! Couple hundred bucks!, but at least it is still available. Honeywell makes it.


Gregg,


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