# 200' redwood takedown



## murphy4trees (May 18, 2008)

Just talked to an old friend who lives on a mountain above Boulder Creek California. I AM going out for a quick viusit on Wednesday. He asked me to take down a 200' (I hope he's exagerating), 4-5' DBH, redwood leaning over the house. I like to do some pruning and removals for my ex-inlaws when I visit Cali, so I AM happy to bring out my climbing gear... and I AM a wondering what to bring for this takedown.. I climb on 150' fly and normally use 200' of true blue for lowering.. Biggest trees I work on in Philly are normally around 100', though can rarely go as high as 120'...

So given an inexperienced ground crew and unknown ropes and rigging hardware, and I'll have to fly all my gear out, I've been thinking about how to do this tree. I could order some sear and have it sent there...

I AM thinking of rigging from a small shackle on a sling and using an 8 in the tree for friction to lower myself... (so a 200' lowering line should be plenty)Taking it small if needed, though that would be really slow if I had to block down the wood like that... I AM hoping I can brush out the tree, then guy it and fall it perpendicular to the lean....

SO I'd appreciate some info from those experienced with redwoods.. How do they hinge.. how strong are they for rigging off themselves... how heavy is the wood etc... 

Thanks


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## tomtrees58 (May 18, 2008)

good luck but a 200 ft tree you need a 400 ft rope tom trees


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## Sunrise Guy (May 18, 2008)

l'd be happy to fly out and help you, if this gig was a little later on, and if my expenses were covered. I have never taken down such big wood before, but it sounds like a real challenge. How intense is the lean over your friend's house? That could be a real problem in the home stretch. How are you going to get up this tree? Spiking 170' or so may be a fun experience. I remember seeing a video of a rec climb up to 200'. They used an elevator system where the weight of one climber coming down raised another going up. Of course someone had to be the first one up the tree without the aid of the elevator. That first climber going up was never shown. I do remember that Tobe was on the scene and shot a line pretty accurately with his Big Shot. Remember to get a bunch of pictures and/or videos so we can all live your adventure, vicariously!


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## D Mc (May 18, 2008)

Dan, How comfortable are you on spurs? Limbing out a 200' redwood, especially if you have to lower all the limbs, you will need long gaffs and a boot and spur combo that is comfortable for you. 

Redwood limbs are not excessively heavy so GENERALLY you can daisy chain them...depending. But the wood is brittle so they will tend to pop as soon as you make your top cut. It can be a bit of surprise if you are not prepared for it. 

Doing the lowering yourself from the tree will lower the rigging forces but also will put a pretty big burden on yourself. That's a pretty big tree to take down for a one man band. 

If the wood needs to be lowered, the stuff you have mentioned is not adequate. 

4 to 5' dbh and 200' tall is probably a youngish tree; depending on the growing environment they can vary a lot. Some trees in manicured residential areas can grow over rapidly and have structural issues. If it is in a more natural setting, you should be ok. All things being equal they generally hinge very well, the wood is nice to cut. So if there is room to fell it, that shouldn't be a problem. 

Have your friend confirm that removal permits are not required in that area.

Climbing a tree of that size is often the high point of a climber's career (no pun intended). It is quite the feeling.

Dave


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## (WLL) (May 18, 2008)

bring the grcs or hobbs whatever ya have and 350-400ft of 3/4 stable braid would be a wise choice. the wood is very strong and spike friendly. be sure to bring some big azz loopies or woopies because there will not be any good crotches to work with. good luck and i hope your guys have plenty of experience and the climber is in good strong shape. dont forget to look into permits if need be.


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## lxt (May 18, 2008)

I agree with TreeCo, on the homefront we all know our limits(some anyhow) but out of town with an untrained crew Not to mention your standard gear will be obsolete, at 170ft how big do you think that stuff is gonna be...how about 120ft? im thinking work load limits, log weight, bar size & targets!!!

Whatever your decision BE CAREFUL!! this sounds like a job for a crew of well trained & experienced personnel!! redwoods I would think are nothing like the maples/oaks in Philly, the characteristics of a tree mean alot & we are all pretty familiar with what we trim at home!! you might consider it an adventure........I would compare this with the average home owner trying to take down a 50 cherry tree....he might do ok!! but the stats of those who didnt are staggering!!

Good Luck & Godbless

LXT.................


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## (WLL) (May 18, 2008)

dont forget a steel core. you will de doing a chit load of close cutting with a long saw. be safe and think twice befor making your next move.


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## joesawer (May 18, 2008)

You better learn to roll a flip line. Working the flip up that bark is an adventure until you learn how. 
You will need some redwood gaffs, normal tree gaffs will be like using pole climbers on normal trees.
Drop and catch on that diameter should not be learned over a house.


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## Frank Boyer (May 18, 2008)

I live by Boulder Creek and a few neighbors have had similar size trees removed. Both times they used a crane. The wood is very valuable. The trees tend to grow straight, but they are big trees.


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## oldirty (May 18, 2008)

pics murph!


good luck with it.


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## Texas Traveler (May 18, 2008)

Frank Boyer said:


> I live by Boulder Creek and a few neighbors have had similar size trees removed. Both times they used a crane. The wood is very valuable. The trees tend to grow straight, but they are big trees.


 This poster has it right, I don't know where you are in relation to Arcadia, California.
But I have hauled mucho loads out of there as a backhaul to the Eastern States.in the 60s, 70s & 80s When I wasn't craning.
It was like new gold coming out of California.
I think talking to a local company might keep you out of a heap of trouble.


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## Old Monkey (May 18, 2008)

Just from reading your post, you are in no way geared up or qualified to do this tree. A redwood like that requires a different set of skills and you need to work up to it to be safe. You also need experienced ground help who have experience lowering heavy pieces on a Hobbs or a GRCS. 

I recommend climbing the tree as a recreational climb and leave its removal to a more experienced climber and crew. I am certain you are good at what you do but do not underestimate this tree. Maybe your friend is wrong about the proportions and maybe he is right. Personally I need to see a tree like that in person before I decide what gear and personnel I need.


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## oldirty (May 18, 2008)

Old Monkey said:


> Just from reading your post, you are in no way geared up or qualified to do this tree. A redwood like that requires a different set of skills and you need to work up to it to be safe. You also need experienced ground help who have experience lowering heavy pieces on a Hobbs or a GRCS.
> 
> I recommend climbing the tree as a recreational climb and leave its removal to a more experienced climber and crew. I am certain you are good at what you do but do not underestimate this tree. Maybe your friend is wrong about the proportions and maybe he is right. Personally I need to see a tree like that in person before I decide what gear and personnel I need.





from reading his previous posts on this site i'd say murph can do any tree.

the redwood to him would just be a really big pine. thats all. he's just gonna need some longer ropes.

i got faith in his ability.


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## Texas Traveler (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> from reading his previous posts on this site i'd say murph can do any tree.
> 
> the redwood to him would just be a really big pine. thats all. he's just gonna need some longer ropes.
> 
> i got faith in his ability.


 No doubt,  but the first time I was there way back when. I stayed in a state of shock.
And each time afterward, it never got old.


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## oldirty (May 18, 2008)

Texas Traveler said:


> No doubt,  but the first time I was there way back when. I stayed in a state of shock.
> And each time afterward, it never got old.




i'd love to climb a redwood.


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## Texas Traveler (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> i'd love to climb a redwood.



You can have my share I have had enough of radio towers.


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## Old Monkey (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> from reading his previous posts on this site i'd say murph can do any tree.
> 
> the redwood to him would just be a really big pine. thats all. he's just gonna need some longer ropes.
> 
> i got faith in his ability.





I have done large redwoods. I used to live in Northern California. Its been about four years for me and I would be reluctant to do that tree without a hobbs or a GRCS and a good crew. I am not trying to slam Mr. Murphy. 

If you do do the tree, redwood branches pop off easy, large branches can break off after a swipe or two of a hand saw. Bark can come off in large sections attached to your spurs.


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## oldirty (May 18, 2008)

Old Monkey said:


> I have done large redwoods. I used to live in Northern California. Its been about four years for me and I would be reluctant to do that tree without a hobbs or a GRCS and a good crew. I am not trying to slam Mr. Murphy.
> 
> If you do do the tree, redwood branches pop off easy, large branches can break off after a swipe or two of a hand saw. Bark can come off in large sections attached to your spurs.




i would love to climb a redwood!


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## treemandan (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> i would love to climb a redwood!



Well there doesn't seem to be to much stopping you.


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## oldirty (May 18, 2008)

sorry murph for getting this thread of yours off topic. 

good luck


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## DonnyO (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> i would love to climb a redwood!



X100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


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## Texas Traveler (May 18, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Well there doesn't seem to be to much stopping you.



LOL, he said climb it only. That is all i read.


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## oldirty (May 18, 2008)

Texas Traveler said:


> LOL, he said climb it only. That is all i read.



since this thread is derailed i will say this.


if its out in the forest.....i want to climb to the top and take it all in. knowing i will never get any higher than that point in my life.


if its in the backyard....i want to climb to the top and pop it, sending it down many hundreds of feet to the ground below. i want to taste the wood chips, i want to hear the sound of that top picking up speed on its way down. i want to come down another 30ft and call for a bigger saw so that i can lay this piece of wood over and drop down another 30 ft to do the same.

after that i want a bigger saw sent up my rope so that i can continue to send wood down, log truck ready, and hopefully in the process i end up covered in sawdust and sweat. knowing that no other fool i know would have the balls to pull off what i do for a living. and the best part of it is that i get paid to have the time of my life.


"i want to climb a redwood"


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## M.D. Vaden (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> pics murph!
> 
> 
> good luck with it.



Please...

Photos - maybe a few moments of video.

One this is certain, if the stem is single, it's comparable to a big version of west coast evergreen tree removals.

Did someone say 400' of rope


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## JeffL (May 18, 2008)

oldirty said:


> and the best part of it is that i get paid to have the time of my life.



I've been saying this since nearly day one of getting into the tree business just over a year ago. :greenchainsaw:


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## murphy4trees (May 19, 2008)

*thanks*

Alright... thanks for all the input....
I called to get a litle more info about the tree... only left a message..
I was on the property many times in the past 14 years, but haven't been there for at least 8.. I do remember some big trees, but nothing more than 150-175' ( though it was hard to judge cause I wasn;t used to that kind of scale) and nothing with a whole lot of lean, though he is on the side of a mountain...

I doubt I'll be rigging much if any wood based on lack of equipment and inexperienced ground crew... I won't haul out the GRCS cause I AM flying... I Am really going out to see my 8 year old son.. he's always my priority and this tree was just mentioned to me on Friday.... I might have to haul all my gear with my X and son and their bags in her little 2-door Geo metro... SO The lighter I can travel the better... I don't even want to bring a port-a wrap, that's why I was thinking about the 8....

I AM thinking about bringing the big shot head, 2) 180' zing it (1.75mm) throw lines, kong dual handle ascneders, my regular bashlin aluminum spikes, an extra long lanyard, and I do have a 12-15' steel core lanyard that I've never used... my regular 150' spliced fly, and a fairly new 200' 1/2" double braid lowering line, and I have been meaning to get a new 200' true blue, so I might just have that deliverred there... I'll aslo bring an old version of the rope guide (though maybe Big Jon will let me use his new one), a lowering block, some loopies, pulleys and biners as redirtects etc, and a rigging biner and the 8 with a couple shackles and slings.. and some files...

My plan is to set a line with the throw line and either spike up on belay, or footlock up and get the spikes on in the tree... then hopefully I can brush out the lower section of the tree so it can clear the house when we drop it in one cut... Using one line to guy it and another as a pull line... Hopefully there is a good landing zone to the side of the house... It will be challenging to thread the needle on a 5' DBH redwood, though If I take my time (which I will) with the notch and backcut and have some good lines set I AM confident in precision falling... I rarely use wedges!

Any thoughts on using a plunge cut would be appreciated. normally I like to plunge anything that is bigger than the length of my bar. Would I be looking for a 2-4" hinge on a 5' redwood?

If the tree is going to be a lot more difficult than that, I'll either take a pass or do what I can and let some one out there finish it... My friend is pretty well connected, so he may be able to borrow a lot of professional gear and saws, as well as have chains and winches etc... One of my main concerns is the climbing saw... I have a little echo at my in laws, though I'd really like to have a stihl 192 w/ thin bar or a 200t... They don't let you fly with chainsaws anymore...

Thanks again..
Oh and my camera is missing... Guess I should find it by Tuesday...


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## joesawer (May 19, 2008)

M.D. Vaden said:


> Please...
> 
> Photos - maybe a few moments of video.
> 
> ...



I say "Sometimes 400' is not enough". It is also very heavy.


Oldirty- No disrespect, but don't disrespect these trees. He will need a lot more than some longer rope to do it safely. 
Try a longer flip line, about a 20 footer, and the ability to work that long of a flip up the far side of the tree. Hard to do if you have never even seen some one do it. Many a climber has got their flip spoiled on the far side of a red wood and had to have some one help them get loose.
Longer gaffs, about 5" to 7" inches long.
Rigging to handle several thousand pounds.
Equipment to move the logs out of the way when he fills up the drop zone. A tree like that could load 3 or 4 log trucks.
He may be one of the best trimmers in the world, but on west coast take downs, you can throw away most of your trimming gear and start over with different gear. My primary saw in a tree was an 066 with a 32" to 42" inch bar. Now it is mostly a modded 372 with a 32" bar.


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## clearance (May 19, 2008)

Good for you. I have climbed to 180' old growth, at least, not to remove, just to top (windfirming). I climb with Buckingham straight shank 3" spurs and use an 18' double ended steelcore with a steelcore prussic for big trees. It will go around that tree, no problem. You need a steelcore so you can flip it. Never climbed a redwood, but I have climbed big old red cedars. I mean fat and old, its a party when a large chunk of bark sticks on your spur and you have to shake it off.

Maybe you can just strip and chunk, perhaps you can hang branches and then cut them so they fall straight down. Maybe you can fall the whole thing, that would be nice, maybe you can get big logs pulled off. All maybees. If its causing a lot of doubt, walk, no shame at all.


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## oldirty (May 19, 2008)

joesawer said:


> I say "Sometimes 400' is not enough". It is also very heavy.
> 
> 
> Oldirty- No disrespect, but don't disrespect these trees. He will need a lot more than some longer rope to do it safely.
> ...





no disrespect meant bud.


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## joesawer (May 19, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> Alright... thanks for all the input....
> I called to get a litle more info about the tree... only left a message..
> I was on the property many times in the past 14 years, but haven't been there for at least 8.. I do remember some big trees, but nothing more than 150-175' ( though it was hard to judge cause I wasn;t used to that kind of scale) and nothing with a whole lot of lean, though he is on the side of a mountain...
> 
> ...



The scale of the trees will really mess with your head. When I first came to CA, I kept asking myself where all the big trees where that they had been telling me about. Don't get me wrong, I cut a lot of 18" inch trees, but a 50" tree is not a big tree any more.
I have only cut a few red woods. They are rare this far south. The biggest one was over 60". But I have climbed several pines, firs and cedars larger than that. I have cut some oaks over 80" also.
Good thinking. Setting a line and ascending into big trees is much easier than spiking and flipping. But it is something of a trick to work on cutting the limbs as you go up on a srt.
As for your hinge, 4" would be very large for short pieces. Imo it might be kind of large for the whole tree, a lot of variables come into play. The thing you have to be carful of is the short log closing the face and not breaking the hinge. If it does you have created a mouse trap that will probably fall side ways when you do get the hinge to break. A sipe and fine hinge helps prevent this. I have never used a bore cut for a back cut on something that was not leaning very hard. In fact I have only used it a few times.
As for falling the whole tree side ways, that sounds like a good plan if you have the place to put it. Beware of the limbs it will throw if it touches another tree. Also beware of your guy line crossing another tree. You normally do not need as much stumpshot as most eastern abreast use. It has to split before the tree can move forward. Across a 5' hinge it can be a factor in making the tree hard to get started. Also in these trees they will often have spike knots hidden inside and if it is in the hinge area they will make the tree harder to get started and increase the chance of a barber chair. The high back cut increases the chance of having a spike knot in the hinge area. A few inches is usually enough.


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## 046 (May 19, 2008)

sounds like quite the adventure coming up!! be safe...


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## TimberMcPherson (May 19, 2008)

Travelling to jobs like this "blind" is tough, you can carry all the gear you want but you seldom bring everything you need, and that often means having to either take short cuts, working harder than you need to or taking bigger risks.

Either way it can be ugly. I cant remember the last time I visited family, went to a wedding (aside from my own) or stayed at friends when a tree job didnt just pop up. I have to say that the tree austria fits into my bag alot easier than my traverse. Borrowing and climbing with others saws stinks, not knowing how good the other guys are or how sound the gear is stinks, sometimes helping out your friends can cost you more than you can afford to loose. 

I still do it, and do ugly stuff with sub standard gear (pruned my sisters willow with a 046 and carpenters saw) just be careful and dont over commit yourself!


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## corsair4360 (May 20, 2008)

*Big Redwood*

I live in southern Santa Clara County, and they have logged the redwoods out with a helicopter from the summit of Hecker Pass and the trees were not that tall or large diameter second or third growth. That logging was with a Boeing twin rotor helicopter. With the cost of running a big helicopter, that means the wood was very valuable, since it costs thousands for a helicopter of that size. 

Given the value of old growth Redwood and the proximity to a home I would talk to Redwood Empire Lumber company in Santa Cruz and see if they are interested. Redwood Empire Sawmills 1395 41st Ave # D, Capitola, CA 95010 Phone:	(831) 464-878 As I remember they do logging as well as sawmill, and specialize in Redwood.

If the tree is like many redwoods around here on the coast it is in a densely forested area with houses and is really 200 feet tall, it may require a big crane. Most of the Santa Cruz area is not even remotely flat were the redwoods are, and that makes it even more dicey.

My 2cents.


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## rbtree (May 20, 2008)

murph, long time, no read.....


clear your pm box, or pm me.....

methinx you could use some help from a Bay area arbo.....

If the stick (at least the bottom 60 feet or so) can be flopped, it should be worth good $. Maybe enough for me to drive down with my gear..... 
but surely there are local guys who can help.

I don't know the redwood market, but western red cedar is paying about $1200 mbf for logs of 32 feet and up, and $900 or so for 16-31.......

Three 20 foot redwood logs of 26, 32, and 36 inch diameters inside the bark, small end= 2720 bf, Scribner scale.....


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## jomoco (May 20, 2008)

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing the climbing on this redwood, in fact brushing a tree that size will be an experience for you in the sheer stamina it takes to deal with conifers in that size range. If you have to rope the brush, you'll be lucky to just brush it in one day.

The smart move in my opinion is to get a 120 ton hydrocrane with an experienced operator, that way you can take it down in 33 foot sections and sell the valuable wood to pay for the crane time.

Anyone with hands on experience in redwoods knows that trying to catch wood over 3 foot dia on these monsters is very problematic and requires oversized ropes and rigging as well as a very experienced climber who really knows exactly what he's doing, or else.

How much do you think a green redwood log that's 36 inches dia on one end, 40 inches on the other, and only 6 feet long weighs?

Go to this link, punch in the species and numbers I've given and check out what I'm saying to you.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

Work safe!

jomoco


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## murphy4trees (May 20, 2008)

It's definitely not old growth...
He says we could probably drop it in one cut if we opened up the LZ by dropping another redwood... says he has a mill on site at this time.... I AM packing gear right now.. flying early AM... Just found out that US Airways is now charging $25 for the second checked bag... each way....

SO I may end doing minimal climbing and just set ropes and rig the lines and drop two trees... I suggested a cable since his real concern is the safety of the house.. If I find my camera soon, I may be able to post pics...

Thanks,


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## clearance (May 20, 2008)

clearance said:


> Maybe you can fall the whole thing, that would be nice,



I love it when maybees are possible. Fall it, undercut, backcut. Have fun.


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## Old Monkey (May 20, 2008)

Have fun, be safe and if you mess up make sure it is caught on video.


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## costello (May 20, 2008)

*call link @ morreno or*



Old Monkey said:


> Have fun, be safe and if you mess up make sure it is caught on video.



Lincoln, he has the info you might need regarding the local, he is in contact with the best contract feller removal persons. the store is only a stones throw from the location you described. link works @ sierra moreno mercantile, 650-967-4676, 1958 Latham Street, Mountain View, Ca.. the last hobbs i bought was being painted in the garage next door as i waited. the new hobbs are the best. this tree sounds like a cake walk. if you need assistance there are many in the area that will help you. nearest and best supply Webbs Farms, 831-475-1020, @ 5381 Old San Jose Rd, Soquel, i bought my first sierra moreno saddle there 15 years ago to replace a Klien that i swore would never wear out. the place is magic. you should call them if you need anything, eggs, butter, milk, or the name of a local who knows how the wood can be sold. wind will be up on 5-21 if the weather is like today all calm now be watchful of the noon-2pm it might really blow.


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## rbtree (May 21, 2008)

jomoco said:


> How much do you think a green redwood log that's 36 inches dia on one end, 40 inches on the other, and only 6 feet long weighs?
> 
> Go to this link, punch in the species and numbers I've given and check out what I'm saying to you.
> 
> ...


 1762-1960 lb is what woodweb shows, old growth being heavier. But that site doesn't allow for all the variables.
There's a big difference in wood weights among the same species. Variables would be the time of year, how high in the tree the wood is (lower is always heavier), and perhaps the age of the tree.

I removed a young sequoia years back. We had to haul the wood, and I was amazed how heavy it was, so I cut an approximately 1 cubic foot piece, and weighed it. It was about 66 pounds...near the ground and in spring or summer. That is about the same as green oak! And 50% above woodweb's calc of ~44 lb per cubic foot, for ring dense old growth.

sounds like Murph might be able to fell the tree. That'd be cool, and doable if it only has a back lean of 5 degrees or so. If not, and given suitable ground, I'd pull log lengths over, 20-32 footers......piece of cake with the right ground gear and support.


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## a_lopa (May 21, 2008)

Murphy will have that tree down and be having an early lunch,I would lay money on it..


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## M.D. Vaden (May 21, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> If I find my camera soon, I may be able to post pics...
> 
> Thanks,



Honestly Murphy, we want to them from you, not on the news.

Enjoy your trip.


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> Alright... thanks for all the input....
> I called to get a litle more info about the tree... only left a message..
> I was on the property many times in the past 14 years, but haven't been there for at least 8.. I do remember some big trees, but nothing more than 150-175' ( though it was hard to judge cause I wasn;t used to that kind of scale) and nothing with a whole lot of lean, though he is on the side of a mountain...
> 
> ...



HOW TO CLIMB A 100 FOOT TREE WITH A 50 FOOT ROPE by Treemandan. Very carefully! There you go treeMDS.
Anyway Hi there and a suggestion if you haven't already thought of it: If your ripe is not long enough and you have other ropes set them at different heights so you can always reach the ground by moving from rope to rope.
I don't think you are going there to cut it down and you probably shouldn't. One reason is why bother? you are going to see people reaslly, right? Don't commit to a committment.
I would never make anyone feel bad about walking away from a tree, I mean come on, its your life here! But I am the type to ask you to get out of my way if you aren't going to do it. You probably wouldn't find me messing around with some 200 foot redwood next to a house anytime soon unless I was just messing around with it AND that is what I think you should do- mess around with it. Take it off the list of jobs to do and just get up there and feel it. Let it get done right.
Of course if you feel you can do it right then do it. But you are going to need one long assed rope, most likely 2 or 3. don't forget your back up 3000 miles away.
Does your insurance cover you there?


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## 046 (May 22, 2008)

that's what I've been thinking too...



a_lopa said:


> Murphy will have that tree down and be having an early lunch,I would lay money on it..


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

oldirty said:


> since this thread is derailed i will say this.
> 
> 
> if its out in the forest.....i want to climb to the top and take it all in. knowing i will never get any higher than that point in my life.
> ...



well that is definatley saying something. I don't see it quite like you do but I do feel foolish sometimes as even my friends think I am strange. 
To get back on topic- which seems so important- That is what you should do MVaden! hook up with one of these redwood specialist out there and maybe you would feel good about having the back up. Personaly, I think only a fool has no back up but you know when you need back up, not me. I would need back up, lots of it.
Another line in your repetior I am sickly jealous not to have. Make the most and don't go skimping on anything.
Last two days were wet and windy with 4 big sticks to get down. All went well due to the sweat from our balls and I was happy and tired today when all me and Jamie did was slice down a few small mullberries and run them through. 10 to 3 was it for me. Its great to clobber them but I like to get my feet on the ground and gussy up the place to. I get to talk a lot more crap on the ground.


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## murphy4trees (May 30, 2008)

*they were smokin pot*

That tree was 135-145', maybe 36" after the bark was trimmed... Went up at 10:30, brushed and topped to 90' and down by 12:30... And I was taking it nice and easy, used an old piece of climbing line with an eye spice, cut to 20' , and a small shackle in the tree for lowering, and just used a short pice of Hi-V and a figure 8 on the ground for friction....


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## rbtree (May 30, 2008)

Cool, murph....

..but anticlimactic 

I was wondering if it was really 200' when I saw the location, south of the bigger redwood zone....


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 30, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> That tree was 135-145', maybe 36" after the bark was trimmed... Went up at 10:30, brushed and topped to 90' and down by 12:30... And I was taking it nice and easy, used an old piece of climbing line with an eye spice, cut to 20' , and a small shackle in the tree for lowering, and just used a short pice of Hi-V and a figure 8 on the ground for friction....



Ain't it nice when they are very doable, after psyching yourself up to going and taking a look.


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## 046 (May 30, 2008)

good hear the job is done with no issues!!


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## Old Monkey (May 30, 2008)

Good job. I should have guessed the tree got bigger in the telling.


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## ClimbinArbor (May 30, 2008)

wtg murph


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## Ekka (May 30, 2008)

a_lopa said:


> Murphy will have that tree down and be having an early lunch,I would lay money on it..



Collect ya bets mate!


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## Texas Traveler (May 31, 2008)

Ekka said:


> Collect ya bets mate!


I for one, am glad it was not as tall as expected.
But for the gents that has never been in real red wood county, you don't have a clue.
I have been on cold steel towers pretty tall but man red wood trees are a living thing.
On most of them you cannot see the tops, still in a state of shock.
Did I tell you the about the time I had to drive around one during a snow storm.


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 31, 2008)

Old Monkey said:


> Good job. I should have guessed the tree got bigger in the telling.



Judging the true height of things that tall isn't something your average person can do very well.

I usually UNDERestimate, myself, when looking at communications towers. I think most people tend to overestimate.


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## Ekka (May 31, 2008)

Texas Traveler said:


> But for the gents that has never been in real red wood county, you don't have a clue.



Seems like this guy had the best clue and he aint even in your country. :hmm3grin2orange: 



a_lopa said:


> Murphy will have that tree down and be having an early lunch,I would lay money on it..



Difference is mate tree people aren't tower people, and Lopa comes from the area which has the worlds tallest HARDWOODS. He also knows how to bring them down and assess peoples skills and abilities.

Sometimes I feel you guys look at the rest of the world like this.


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## Texas Traveler (May 31, 2008)

Oh well, all this from a sheep herder? 
But back to the subject, Philly ain't really known for much except mobsters & a old cracked bell .
But I would never doubt a man's ability, never ever.
But I have been in redwood country & the word caution comes to mind.
When I cannot see the top of something & the State of Calif. builds a road around it.
Well you know how it is, this ole Texan will give them bragging rights about it.


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## Ekka (May 31, 2008)

Watch this video from this thread

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=35604

1.25mins and 5.71mb wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/mcmahoncollection.wmv


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## AxeKnot (May 31, 2008)

Well done to murphy for getting that tree on the ground, although I hate when people exagerrate the size of trees, his friends need a reality check. Still.......anything over 90 ft is tall to me and sometimes trees under 90 can feel taller than they actually are especially if there aint nothing between you and the ground.

This Lime(Linden/Tilia) I deadwooded recently(early spring) must've only been about 80ft but it felt a lot higher looking down onto that pavement. 

When you've only air between you and the ground the height is magnified in your mind, either that or I'm suffering from vertigo and should have probably left this job years ago.


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## jomoco (May 31, 2008)

Hey Murph!

How is it you fly out to CA knock this redwood out in such a timely manner, and not take one dang picture of the operation after all this suspenseful build up in this thread?

I mean I'm glad it went well and all, but dang it I feel robbed!

If you get the chance go down to the bay area and cruise through Palo Alto and check out some of the old blue gum eucs that really are 200 feet tall in the residential areas there. It's my opinion that the big eucs in the bay area are some of the most challenging trees to take down in the world safely, particularly the ones you can't get a big crane to.

There are big eucs in that area that woud take me 4 or 5 days to rope down safely, but only because I'm getting old and increasingly orthopedic as the ravages of old climbers disease kick my butt.

Good job Murph!

jomoco


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## AxeKnot (May 31, 2008)

jomoco said:


> It's my opinion that the big eucs in the bay area are some of the most challenging trees to take down in the world safely, particularly the ones you can't get a big crane to.
> jomoco



Having been there I agree. terrible trees to work on.


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## Ekka (May 31, 2008)

Bloody heavy and slippery too!


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## Old Monkey (May 31, 2008)

The spur nicely though.

I find that customers do a better job at estimating their trees height if ask if it is taller than a two story house. They seem to be better judges of stories than feet.


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## murphy4trees (May 31, 2008)

*bad fro your brain*

I smoked a good bit of pot when I was young, quit in 1985 at age 25... never touched it for the last 22+ years

The last time I worked with a guy that smoked pot was probably around 1995.. that was until last week... 

These guys were "wake and bake".. getting high first thing in the morning and all day long... I only heard from my cousin after we left, that the owner, who is one of my oldest and best frineds, was pounding beers all day long too, while I was focussed getting the trees down.

As my cousin and I were leaving and started talking about how impaired they all were, I felt like crying for my friend, so lost in addiction. Nothing I could say would make a difference... He couldn't hear it if I tried... This guy was leading 12 step meetings in the early 90's. Very SAD!.. I AM going to call him sometime this weekend and see if he can hear it though...

That said... the point I'd like to make here is just how impaired these guys were... It was a real lesson to me... they might have been operating at 50-70%... that is one reason i was taking my time... They still almost got me though....

Here's the story:
We could have dropped the big tree straight into the dirt road if we had taken three others down first... All notch and drop, with just a bit of climbing to cut out a big crossing limb... But decided in the morning, to just focus on the problem tree.. once he saw that get roped out in 2 hours, he decided the day was still young and we should do the others as well... 

Notched and dropped the first, maybe 16-18", it was leaning to the fall, so no rope or wedges.... They limbed it up and I got the throw line to set a pull line for the second tree... So I was stradling the downed log, (right between my legs) with the throw ball swinging in preperation for the throw, when I hear someone behind me say "OK", and the log takes off, right between my legs... Took me a second to jump out of there... I just shook my head and said " I AM speechless".... If I had said what was on my mind it would have ruined everybody's day... 

This wasn't a very big log, but still if it had rolled or a nub caught my ankle, I could have been hurt badly... There were a lot of other small things they were doing all day long that mad it clear to me just how impaired they were... 

I try to never depend on the actions of my groundman to protect me when climbing... That is a rule, and when the rare situation requires it to be broken, I make sure they know my instructions and they have the right number of wraps etc.. Stop the saws, Turn off the chipper etc first so I know that they understand what to do... and I never put myself at risk in that redwood... and they did run the ropes OK overall... I took my time, and it went smooth... but still they almost got me on the ground.... THAT IS HOW DANGEROUS IT IS WORKING WITH DOPE SMOKERS!

I try not to judge people in this world... we are all just doing the best we can, and hopefully learning how to live a good life. We all make mistakes and who AM I to say that my way of living is better than someone elses... in the end I tried to just show them by example... how much better one can operate when not fogging the mind... Maybe they got it, maybe not... i did get some good feedback... my frined told me that they were all impressed... even the guy that used to work for Davey had never seen anyone that fast in a tree, and they all learned a lot, when I showed them the open face notch and the gunning lines on the saw etc... 

Hopefully it helped and hopefully this thread will help someone out there... The tree industry has a reputation for employing a lot of druggies and drinkers... Then there are guys like Graeme, Big Jon, Roachy, Riggs.. If you want to play like them, you gotta put down the joint and the bottle...

I do have a few pics... but since my 'puter crashed and was rebuilt I haven't figured out how to resize...

PS... I always did like the idea of folding trees, but have never found a good oportunity... If you are going up to notch, abckcut, and set a back line, why not just drop the top then... only thing I can think of is not trusting the integrity of the trunk and roots, or you can't set a pull line that high in the direction of fall.. Seems like you'd have to balance that dnager against the danger of standing under the partially cut top to fall it from the ground..


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## Texas Traveler (Jun 1, 2008)

Well said Murphy:greenchainsaw:


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## Ekka (Jun 1, 2008)

I had a good laugh Murph, I haven't worked with dope heads for quite some time but the log racing off would have made the funniest home videos.

You could have dropped the redwood if the other 3 were gone but you dismantled it then the dope heads git rid of the other 3 anyway.  

I would hate to think what 20 years to 30 years of continual dope smoking does, let alone fire one up at sunrise.

You're a good sport and tree man. Thanks for an entertaining thread, also search on the net for some online resizing or open a flickr account and resize there.


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## murphy4trees (Jun 1, 2008)

*photos*

OK I went online and resized a few


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## murphy4trees (Jun 1, 2008)

*and more*

here are 2 more


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## Nailsbeats (Jun 1, 2008)

My hat's off to ya Murphy, I appreciate your attitude. Nice work. I too have a great friend who is in a constant alcohol haze, doesn't even know what burning clean is about anymore. Try to be a good example like you said, try talking to him too, might help. 

What's the saw you are using there? Looks new.


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## jomoco (Jun 1, 2008)

You're a heartless professional baby killer Murph!

Next time we want a video of the ruthless crime proving your guilt!

Somethin like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQOUEdSp3Pk

Nice job Murph!

jomoco


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## rbtree (Jun 1, 2008)

Nice work on the pecker pole, Dan...

well, compared to what we were all thinking the size was. 

Ya love those open faces, don't ya.....opcorn: me, I rarely bother going beyond 45 degrees....nice straight grained sticks are well committed to the lay after just a bit of movement.


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## rbtree (Jun 1, 2008)

Ekka said:


> I had a good laugh Murph, I haven't worked with dope heads for quite some time but the log racing off would have made the funniest home videos.
> 
> You could have dropped the redwood if the other 3 were gone but you dismantled it then the dope heads git rid of the other 3 anyway.
> 
> ...



I resize before uploading to my online sites...well, unless I want a large file size online....
www.picasa.com is a very capable free photo editor, and organizer...it also has online storage web albums.


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## murphy4trees (Jun 2, 2008)

I would have gone to the trouble of cutting a humboldt if they were selling the log... but they were milling on site... It was kind of a tight shot between the deck and another log... So I was more concerned with accuracy and thought I'd let them deal with the wood... 

I like to stand over the saw and look down the gunnign line on the saw for the top cut of the notch... rarely do I cut the floor like that though..usualy just leave it horizontal... I was hoping the ramp would help the but slide off the stump and reduce the possibility of breakage, but it probably didn't help much... The notch could have easily been much narrower and more shallow, but I did what I felt comfortable with... I rarely get paid for the wood, so really not used to falling for the log...

here's another pic of another falling cut on same job... Not sure about the diameter, though it was probably 18-20"... You can see how shallow the notch was and the upright fibers in the center of the cut indicating a back release.. I wanted a couple extra seconds to get out of there on this one..

As for the saw.. it was almost brand new.... forget the number... think that was a 28" bar.. I put over 30 stroked on every tooth, and it was not skip tooth... that is like sharpening 6-10 regular ground saws... Should have taken the rakers down too... teeth were sharp but it still didn't cut well....


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## Ekka (Jun 2, 2008)

Those redwoods got some thick bark.

I read somewhere that bark can get a 1' thick on them ....

... the spiking prune people would like to hear that.


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## OTG BOSTON (Jun 2, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> These guys were "wake and bake".. getting high first thing in the morning and all day long... I only heard from my cousin after we left, that the owner, who is one of my oldest and best frineds, was pounding beers all day long too, while I was focussed getting the trees down.
> 
> ..




In Northern Cali.? I am SHOCKED!!!!


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## Hddnis (Jun 8, 2008)

Good work. I always think of Redwood as a fun tree to work on. Not always easy.


Mr. HE


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## M.D. Vaden (Jun 8, 2008)

So Murphy...

Was it fun?

Did you enjoy the trip out and the work?


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## limbwalker54 (Jun 9, 2008)

I see your Main Line Mower and Arborist supply shirt on there Mr. Murphy! Great job and way to go on the long distance tree work!


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## tree MDS (Jun 9, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> I smoked a good bit of pot when I was young, quit in 1985 at age 25... never touched it for the last 22+ years
> 
> The last time I worked with a guy that smoked pot was probably around 1995.. that was until last week...
> 
> ...



Time for workie, time for the doober, thats all, its all about respect, simply put, workie! no smokie!, thats all, the two dont mix! As I've said, after work is after work!!


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## Wismer (Jun 9, 2008)

as for the unknown saw.. i believe its a 441?

wait what? the 441 can actually cut? it actually runs even with all is EPA hype?





anyways, if i am correct (which I may not be) how did it run murph? I have a 440 and am just curious how its predecesor runs? Especially in bigger wood like that.


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## treemandan (Jun 9, 2008)

I just love the guys whose eyes barely stay open by 3 o'clock. The weed is stronger these days but some people just can't help smoking a few pounds by lunch.
good job buddy, on the take down AND realizing you have to rely on yourself. Looking down at those types of people makes you say" It is just easier if I do it myself!" What in the heck were you doing with that figure 8?


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## Burvol (Jun 9, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> I would have gone to the trouble of cutting a humboldt if they were selling the log... but they were milling on site... It was kind of a tight shot between the deck and another log... So I was more concerned with accuracy and thought I'd let them deal with the wood...
> 
> I like to stand over the saw and look down the gunnign line on the saw for the top cut of the notch... rarely do I cut the floor like that though..usualy just leave it horizontal... I was hoping the ramp would help the but slide off the stump and reduce the possibility of breakage, but it probably didn't help much... The notch could have easily been much narrower and more shallow, but I did what I felt comfortable with... I rarely get paid for the wood, so really not used to falling for the log...
> 
> ...



One way to send a stick out off the stump in flight is to cut a "step" or "kicker" as some guys call them. You make a humbolt face, then about 1/3 to half down you make the cut parallel (straight up and down) with the tree on the stump side of the notch. When the tree goes, it touches this little step or whatever you would like to call it, and sends the tree out fairly fast and they tend to fly very horizontal, and land flat, minimizing breakage. I use it on occasion falling timber in tricky spots on cable ground or in other areas where the ground lays strange. You need to be commited to this cut though, slacking in the backcut can pull severe wood, I'll even set it up with a "strap" cut sometimes to compensate this.


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## murphy4trees (Jun 10, 2008)

Ya ... I did have fun.... And actually didn't even mind climbing the big tree, when I could notched and dropped it... Climbing a redwood was a new experience and it was cool to work with my cousin for the first time, and show my friend and his crew how a clean and sober climber can do it.. I never did show any of them how to footlock... or the friction savers etc... Went over basic falling though.. open face notch, back cut hinge... gunning lines...

441 cut well... it actually cut pretty well even when it was dull... I thought that was probably just cause redwood is so soft though...

As far as the 8... had to use the 8 because the port a wrap is too heavy for travel... I was a bit concerned, especially on those chunks. I never use it for life support, or anything else for that matter... It just sits in a box on my porch... I reduced shock loading by using a lowering line with plenty of stretch, (true blue) lacing it through some stubs for a bit of friction in the tree, and using a piece fo hi-v (again lots of stretch) girthed to the base of the tree to anchor the 8... Seemed to work well....


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## tree_beard (Jun 10, 2008)

nice job murphy

btw. the saw in your pics is a ms390 (or a 290, but with that size bar im saying 390)


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## Fallen Angel (Jun 14, 2008)

oldirty said:


> since this thread is derailed i will say this.
> 
> 
> if its out in the forest.....i want to climb to the top and take it all in. knowing i will never get any higher than that point in my life.
> ...



I second and third that thought. Would be one heck of a day.


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