# gm crate engine



## spacemule (Aug 24, 2007)

Hi yall. I've got an '89 chevy 1/2 ton with a six cylinder in it, and I'm toying with the idea of sticking a 350 in it (love the truck, it's in good shape, just a little squeamish on power). 

So, do any of you know if the gm crate 350's will work? They sell brand new 350's with warranties through online distributors for $1,800. They aren't set up with intakes, and I was wondering if an intake and injection system from an '88 to '95 will fit. On the disclaimers for the engines they say the engines are meant for carburated versions prior to '70 something, but I assume that's for emissions. Of course, the fuel injected ones are set up with fuel pumps in the tanks, so maybe that's the difference. What do you all think? I know we've got some mechanics here.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 24, 2007)

There are different variations of the crate motors Space, from a short block to a turnkey. It will bolt right up to the tranny, you will have to change the motor mounts, probably the wiring harness and computer.
A stand alone system makes a lot more senseto me from a cost stand point. Summit and Jeggs are you're freinds here!!


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## Chinooker (Aug 24, 2007)

I took at 87 toy 4runner removed the 4 banger and put in a 4 bolt main crate 350. Went to a junk yard and found a wrecked camaro and removed the entire aspiration (fuel injectors) and wired it all together. Took some time to wire everything together, basically built a separate control panel for all the new electronic. Point is it can be done. Not sure what trans your truck has but that might be a problem. I am not a Chevy guy. It sure was fun putting it all together and that 4runner was a sleeper. Stayed real close to both jegs and summit.

Good luck and have fun


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## spacemule (Aug 24, 2007)

From what I've read, you don't have to change the whole computer out when switching from the 4.3 to the 5.7, just the chip that plugs in to the computer. They say wiring harness and everything else is interchangeable. Of course this is going with an 88 to 95 5.7. 

Really want to stick with fuel injection if I change it out--I hate tinkering with carburetors.


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## spacemule (Aug 24, 2007)

I suppose I would be better off finding a complete engine out of a wreck or something. The truck is old, but it was well taken care of, and I don't have a lot of money in it. I think it would be worth putting a new engine in, but something can be said for the convenience of getting a complete setup out of a wreck with intake, injection, and computer included. Not to mention it would be cheaper. 

Of course, I don't have time to be fooling with this now anyway, and it will probably be next summer before I do anything if I should decide to swap engines. Just would kind of like to know the extent of the project so I can do some long term planning.


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## spacemule (Aug 24, 2007)

Here is a link to the engine I was looking at.

GM sure promotes enthusiasm for their high performance parts. Check out their engine website. Pretty cool if I do say so myself!


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## ShoerFast (Aug 24, 2007)

Very first thing to check with a used engine, the breather in the air-cleaner. 

As the rings start to ware out, or if the engine has ever been over-heated, the air-cleaner breather will start to soak with blow-by (opposite of suck-back) . The second place to check is the color of the exhaust manifold ports for side to side color change, or an ash-like soot, indicating a worn out engine. 

The 3rd thing, pull the plugs, if you cant hear it run, it's a crap-shoot what your going to get. 

Sticking to people with a good reputation and willing to back it is something priceless anymore!

Another option is to just give a good 305/350 a farmers overhaul when you have it out. Watch CL for an engine stand, and maybe even a good builder. That would be the most bang-forda buck. 

If you would start now, tinker with it, set your build plan , like what kind of an engine you want, economy, or one that snarls at fords in the other lane at a red light, *YOU CAN DO IT!*


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## spacemule (Aug 24, 2007)

ShoerFast said:


> If you would start now, tinker with it, set your build plan , like what kind of an engine you want, economy, or one that snarls at fords in the other lane at a red light, *YOU CAN DO IT!*



I want something in between the two extremes. It must be reliable, but have plenty of power. Somewhere around 250 to 300 horsepower is a good target I'm thinking. The appeal of the gm crate engines is that they are already pieced together with factory designed parts, and are high performance. That's worth a lot.


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## ShoerFast (Aug 24, 2007)

Crate engins are a good value, but you can just get a little more bang for the buck with a rebuilder. 

To me, building something myself has a theraputhic value, not to sound strange, but I would rather take a trip on an engine I built then a crate,,,,, I put in a lot of factory engines over the years, very few problims,,,,,,2, come to mind!

The number one idea I like about building is becoming the enganear ( <sp right for the way I do it!) ,,,, 

Matching a cam-shaft - drivetrain alone can give you a tremendious boost. There are more CSB cams avalible then any other engine. Matching the down the road cylinder loading to the fuel avalible can save the price of the envestment in a short hurry with 3 dollor gas. 

Just as a primer, check out this cam from Comp, it changes the firing order to make a little gain,, or there 'Thumper' cams, for that 'mean' sound. Just from the hip, there might be a chance that your looking for something like an Xtreme Energy or an RV style cam, and build out from there.

If your looking for ecomeny, you can gain a little over stock,,, if you want the best of both the econemy and power worlds, your maybe going to get your best gains yourself by building the engine, it's really not that hard. 

So easy, Tim Allen could do it.


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## spacemule (Aug 25, 2007)

That's saying that changing ignition parts aren't necessary for that cam firing order swap. Hows that? Or, do you just reverse those two plug leads? I'm curious how swapping those firing orders can get an increase in power.


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## spacemule (Aug 25, 2007)

I know what you're saying about building an engine yourself, and I would love to. My problem is two fold, time and no place to work on one.


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## sawinredneck (Aug 25, 2007)

MEH..................... Thats too much work!!!!

Do a little research Space, find a builder in you're are of know repute, find the parts you want, and have them build it, or go with the crate motor.

Not you're cup of tea I know, but I had a SB 400 built, .040 over 9:1, comp cams 268h, weiand stealth intake and the old Holly 9010 600cfm with headers. I got 23mpg out of a 4wd Suburban. It was cold blooded, manual choke, but very reliable and dependable.

These new EFI systems are stand alone and reasonably priced. Gives you good economy with option of kicking it up a couple of notches if you feel the need. Just talk to a few people, figure out what you really want/need it to do, and go from there.
No different than buying a saw, you need to know what you need it to do before you can buy it!


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## ShoerFast (Aug 25, 2007)

spacemule said:


> That's saying that changing ignition parts aren't necessary for that cam firing order swap. Hows that? Or, do you just reverse those two plug leads? I'm curious how swapping those firing orders can get an increase in power.




Yes, just swapping the plug-wires from 4 - 7 . 

Swapping the fire order works, tons of people don't know why. But there are sure a lot of bright bulbs on this site! TUVM

Would you believe 'quanthem gead-heading' ?

Just used it as a primer, the work slightely should be used somewhere here. 

First off, if you want to understand it, draw an engine, put the numbers 2-4-6-8 over the top of 1-3-5-7 , like this

*2-4-6-8​*
*1-3-5-7​*
Then draw a line from 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2- then bask to 1 , repeat it a few times till you feel the trend. Now redraw the same number map, but draw from 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 and back to 1,,, same as before, first thing you will notice is a better crank-loading,,, but that not a power issue. 

What you really changes is the intake 'dead-spots' at power, and to some extent, headers can be more easely tuned,,,,,, your side - side intaking goes from a choppy song to a more smoother music, as air sees it. Works in all intake set-ups. 

If your not on the same page yet, look at how a dual-turbo set-up would see the exhaust peaks from each cylinder and retrace the fireing order map again.


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## spacemule (Aug 25, 2007)

ShoerFast said:


> Yes, just swapping the plug-wires from 4 - 7 .
> 
> Swapping the fire order works, tons of people don't know why. But there are sure a lot of bright bulbs on this site! TUVM
> 
> ...


When you say "better crank loading," do you mean the forces coming at the crank will be more sequentially ordered? Would be easier for me to envision if I had an engine block sitting here. ;-) 

I'm not familiar with turbos, really just have a basic working knowledge of engines.

As a side note, as I mentioned I don't have a workshop because I'm living in an apartment right now. I've often wondered how well it would go over to set up a warehouse with several separate garage bays and just rent the bays out for people to work on their own stuff. Looks like there might be a good demand for it in the right places. Need an engine overhaul? Rent a garage bay out for a couple of weeks and work on it at your leisure. What do you think?


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## spacemule (Aug 26, 2007)

Here's a question for you, I've noticed that the 88 to 95 350's are 2 bolt mains, but hot rodders want 4 bolt mains. Is there a substantial difference to reliability or longevity? I can get a gm 2 bolt main long block for the same price as the 4 bolt main, but it doesn't list the horsepower, and I assume it would be the stock power. In your opinions, would I be better off going with the carburated 4 bolt block or the fuel injected 2 bolt block?


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## sawinredneck (Aug 26, 2007)

Unless you are racing, pulling, or just generaly being stupid, no.


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