# Throw Rope - VERY basic questions



## WoodLoon

Feel free to answer with a link. I know my question is very simple-minded for this forum!

Occasionally I cut down small or medium-small trees. My 25 year old son runs the saw - he's intelligent and very safety conscious, both for me and himself. I like to get a rope up high when I cut down a tree so I can direct it if necessary and add a little "pull down" force. I run the rope around something (usually another tree) that is in the direction I want it to fall. I usually position myself, the groundsman (?), about 25-30' away from the pivot point at about 45 degrees. This also allows me to tie off around another tree near my anchor point and pull on the rope between the pivot tree and the anchor tree for improved leverage. I always have my escape route plotted and cleared.

*But it is hard getting my rope up into the tree.* I swing my rope (my old 165' rock climbing rope) with the weight (a lead weight from an old window, probably around a pound)) attached and sling it as best I can. It takes 3-5 tries to get it over maybe a 25-30' high limb. It works poorly!

So I am contemplating upgrading by using 

a Big Shot (or a DIY slingshot). But that would prefer a 10 ounce weight (I am retired, so time is not as much of an issue as it is to a working man, and I have LOTS of tools and raw materials, so DIY often makes sense)
a throw line kit (or DIY) - most the Slick Line seem to be around 2mm thick
How do you attach the heavier rope to the throw line? Is there a mechanical "splice" that connects the two ropes?


Thank you!


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## Doc Hickory

If you want to make a small investment in knowledge, get a copy of The Tree Climber's Companion by Jeff Jepson. It contains good info on just that subject (getting a climbing line into a tree as well as attaching the throw line to the climbing line). You'll learn several good knots for different purposes. The fast and nasty answer to your question is to use a clove hitch, a half hitch, and a clove hitch on a bight at end of climbing line. And please, ditch that window weight, you're a menace slinging that monster about! Happy climbing!
ps....you can just put in the hitches I mentioned into your favorite search engine and get instructions on how to tie them. They are very easy and fun, as well as being very useful! :smile2:


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## RacerX

Well some throw line/weight combo and a big shot are two different animals. With either method you will need the line and weight. Want to add a big improvement to the mix and your spending over another $100 on the big shot. For your use a throwline with a throw bag and some practice is all that you should really need. After getting the throw line set you can just tie the rope on and pull it up into the tree. The TCC that Doc mentioned is a cheap investment and worth every penny.


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## derwoodii

Good vid to schoolin up here 

[video=youtube;PwHwb0xcPWY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHwb0xcPWY[/video]


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## beastmaster

Practice throwing your throwline in a V like they teach in the video. It seems like a pain but with a little practice you'll be hitting your targets regularly. I have different size throw balls, but use the 16oz 95% of the time. The smaller ones don't always want to come down.
I tried green slickline it has a really skinny dia. and it would knot up all the time, and was just a ##### to use, I switched to the thicker yellow zing it and was much happier. I pull trees over sometimes with just the throwline line. I use the 16oz throwball with my bigshot also, a 12oz just won't come down for me. I also have a spool of 80lb guerrilla line fishing line on a spool. I do use the 12oz ball with it. I run a piece of small cord throu a short piece of clear PVC tubing about 10 inch. long, on each end I have a fishing swivel with a clip. On one end I put the throw ball on the other the fishing line. Using the PVC tubing for a handle you can get some pretty good throws.
just make sure you have a bucket or bag, or flat piece of canvas to store your throw line in so it doesn't get tangled up. And Practice.
I was never very good at throwing, then I went to an ISA competition. After seeing those guys and what they could do with a throwline, It really motivated me to learn. Good luck Beastmaster


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## chad556

Best way to attach your rope to your slick line. Its called a Pile Hitch. Ties in seconds, and once you are done pulling on it it slips off in less than a second. Super useful.


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## WoodLoon

chad556 said:


> Best way to attach your rope to your slick line. Its called a Pile Hitch. Ties in seconds, and once you are done pulling on it it slips off in less than a second. Super useful.



That's a great looking knot!

I thought there would be some sort of device that would smooth the transition from the small diameter slick line to the larger rope, so the end of the larger wouldn't snag small branches when you pulled the slick line. I have never used a slick line, however, so maybe that is only a problem in my imagination. I will use a slick line this weekend, probably using your Pile Hitch.

Thanks!


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## Bearcreek

Just FYI, Slick line is a brand name. I like Zing It line. Everybody's got there preference in throw line.


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## Bermie

When you use the pile hitch, tie a couple of half hitches on top of it closer to the end of the climb rope, that way you eliminate that floppy bit of rope hanging down that can get stuck in all kinds of things on the way up and over.

I have stitched a small piece of webbing on each end of my climb line, making a loop right at the end, I just then tie the throwline to the loop and it pulls everything straight and the loop makes a bit a taper so its easier to pull over the TIP


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## RacerX

Bermie said:


> I have stitched a small piece of webbing on each end of my climb line, making a loop right at the end, I just then tie the throwline to the loop and it pulls everything straight and the loop makes a bit a taper so its easier to pull over the TIP



Sounds interesting. Have any photo's? :camera:


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## DangerTree

The cheapest way to DIYS is to use a wrist rocket and a fishing rod with at least 20lb test. Stand the rod with the bail open in a convenient place and with the wrist rocket shoot the line over a stout branch. Tie the fishing line to the rope using a clove hitch. It would be helpful if you had a light rope to pull up first cuz it's easier but- Now once the rope is over the branch secure it to the base of the tree above the cut using a timber hitch. You will know if the branch will hold when you pre-tighten it if the rope is close to the trunk it wont break the branch off. This has the advantage of being able to recover the rope should you need to abandon the mission and it gives mechanical advantage ( remember the 100 lb weight being lifted exerts 2 times the weight on the pulley as the puller must pull 100lbs to lift 100lbs thus pulley sees 200lbs.) However you want an angle greater than 45 degrees so as not to be pulling the tree into the ground. So really you would gain +/- 1.5:1 in advantage.

I use the BIG SHOT with spectra cord and it's awesome. in truth I find in most cases the weight and line are all that is needed. Well worth the money!!


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## Bermie

RacerX said:


> Sounds interesting. Have any photo's? :camera:


 
Sorry no camera right now...and my cellphone is a...phone!
Webbing is about 4" long, folded over the end of the rope and stitched through, making a small loop at the top, works a treat.


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## moray

Here's a way to do it, similar to what Bermie suggests (see post #18):http://www.arboristsite.com/arborist-101/32834-2.htm


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## Matt C23

I also cut down trees of similar size as an every day in lot/farm/pasture clearing. One of my favorite ways to quickly get a line high in a tree with little fuss is a pole saw. When applying leverage to a 25ft tree and you have a 15/20' polesaw you're set. no throwing misses, no tangles, no messy lines.


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## Guran

Some good stuff here.


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## Nemus Talea

Don't forget a hard hat. A weight that goes up and bounces back can crack yer skull... especially if the weight is solid.


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## Guran

+1 on the PPE. Dead (hopefully small) branches can snap easily, and you do not want that in yer head without a helmet/hard hat.


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## ArtB

Have not seen much discussion over the years of using bow and arrow to get a line high.
Have needed to get 5/8" steel cable as high as 80 ft, not much chance of being able to throw that high or accurately. Works even better low, just don't pull bow to full draw.
Use an 80# bow and high strength aluminum arrow with a 4" long, 3/4" dia brass rod as a tip. 40# monofilament fishing line attached to arrow.
Shoot over the desired branch/crotch, arrow drops with he line attached. 
For heavy cable I first pull a 1/8" dia nylon cord up and over, and use that to pull a 1/8" dia small aircraft cable type wire rope from a winch with 200 ft of wire rope. Then clamp the 1/8" to the 5/8" wire rope and winch that over. Easy to pull a climbing rope by hand with just the nylon cord.

If you wonder why the 5/8" wire rope, we use that to pull the entire root ball out of the ground for stuff line 50" DBH black cottonwood. Usually double the 5/8" to eyes on a block, single 5/8" to another block from that block, then a 3/8" 10,000# winch cable thru that block. Some of the big BC take close to 2 million ft-# of torque at ground level to pull. Nothing to give teens and pre-teens an appreciation of machines and leverage and technology to see a big tree come down just by them pushing a button on the winch remote control from 200 ft away !


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## yoyoman

This is another way to do it. I can easily vary the number of wraps depending on how much security I want.


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## groundup

I have used fishing rods, sling shots etc. but nothing works better than a compressed air cannon like this one from Tree Stuff
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=285&item=11138#

I made a similar one using steel pipe and it works like a charm


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## woodchuck357

> I made a similar one using steel pipe and it works like a charm


We use one I made also. I have made throw bags that resemble an air gun pellet and we use the cut-off tops of plastic water bottles pushed into the skirt of the throw bag to act as a sabot which gives much greater consistency with less air pressure.


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## nitrousbaby

I made one with pvc. I have 20 bucks into it and its still going strong i havent cranked it over 80 psi but i cant imagine id ever need to it will easily reach 170 feet. key is to make the air chamber as big as you can i made a couple test pipes that didnt pan out to launch very far.


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## pickupporter

_The cheapest way to DIYS is to use a wrist rocket and a fishing rod with at least 20lb test. Stand the rod with the bail open in a convenient place and with the wrist rocket shoot the line over a stout branch. Tie the fishing line to the rope using a clove hitch. It would be helpful if you had a light rope to pull up first cuz it's easier_

I do this too, works great, put a rope anywhere you want it.


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