# Reading a degree wheel (pics)



## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

I know this has been done before, but with the search bein the way it is I though I'd start a new thread. I'll go through how I set up & read a degree wheel. The saw it's on is a Husky 576xp without the base gasket installed.

I bought a 1/2' drill chuck from Harbor freight to mount to my wheel.








Find a suitable place to mount the pointer.


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## logging22 (Jul 27, 2011)

Im in. Let er bump Srumpet!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## plumbcrazyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

im watching as wellopcorn:


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## Hank Chinaski (Jul 27, 2011)

who are you getting to help read them number things on the side? :hmm3grin2orange:

j/k man, I like the idea using the drill chuck!


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

I use a home made piston stop made from an old plug & a bolt.








Install the stop & turn the degree wheel both ways against the stop & right down the numbers. Add those numbers together then divide by 2. example 59+63=122; 122/2= 61. set the wheel @ 61. Double check by turning the wheel the other way to the stop. you should get the same reading on each side of the stop.


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## w8ye (Jul 27, 2011)

Print this out and glue to a piece of thin plywood and have your own degree wheel


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## sunfish (Jul 27, 2011)

Good stuff, Bubba!

I'm curious to see how this 576 responds. umpkin2:


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## ptjeep (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for walking us through this stumpy, Step by step with pics makes things much easier to understand. On the piston stop, does it matter where in the stroke it stops or does it need to be TDC?


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

Once I git the wheel zeroed remove the stop & move on to the ex port. Turn the wheel in the same direction as the saw is running. Shine a light throught the plug hole, look fer the piston to just barely clear the top of the port. Look real close & set it to where the top of the piston is even with the top of the port. look @ the wheel & record the number. I've got 104* ATDC (after top dead center)









Now we know when the ex port opens we need to figure the duration or the amount of time the port is open during a complete revolution of the crank. Multiply the opening number by two, then subtract that number from 360 ( amount of degree's in a complete revolution). That number is the amount of time in degrees that the port is open. So 104*2=208 360-208=152. The exhuast port is open fer 152* of the each revolution.


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## w8ye (Jul 27, 2011)

I made my piston stop a random length to where ILAR.

You record where the piston stops in one direction and then where it stops in the other.

Half way in between these two is TDC.

I then move the zero point where to this is supposed to be in the right place.

Then I check again and the wheel should be on the same number in each direction.


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

ptjeep said:


> Thanks for walking us through this stumpy, Step by step with pics makes things much easier to understand. On the piston stop, does it matter where in the stroke it stops or does it need to be TDC?


 
It don't matter @ what degree it stops @ just as long as you move the pointer to where it reads the same on each side of the stop. turn the wheel all the way to the right take a reading then to the left & take the reading then use the math to find where you need to set it at. Make sure the reading is the same each way before you remove the stop. If the reading is the same then yer wheel is zeroed on the crank.


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## Tzed250 (Jul 27, 2011)

Link to my degree wheel thread. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/130069.htm


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

A quick note about my pointer, the piont on it is not in the middle. It's on the left side of the wire. No real reason just the way it is fer now. 

Lets move on to the transfer ports. They can be hard to see exactly when they open up. Some you can shine a light through the plug hole & look through the ex port to see when it opens. Others you have to do the opposite. You may also have to shine the light in the plug hole & look through the plug plug hole @ the same time. Just take yer time & try different angles til you are comfortable with the reading you came up with. 
Basically the same as the ex port. Turn the crank the same direction as it runs till the piston is just even with the top of the port. record yer number & use the same math to find the duration fer the trans port. I've got 115* ATDC. SO 115 X 2 =230 360-230=130* of duration.


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

On to the intake. Keep turnin the crank in the same direction. Turn it past BDC (bottom dead center) till the bottom of the piston skirt is even with the bottom of the intake port. Record the reading. Now, on my wheel it reads a full 360 degrees. I have wrote the numbers on the wheel from 0-180 on that half of the wheel. I've come up with 106 degrees ABDC (after bottom dead center). 106 X 2=212 360-212=148* duration. 
]


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

Since this is a stratto saw I'll include the pics fer the stratto ports. Keep tunin the crank till you can see the port openin up. record that reading. I've got 82*. 82 X 2=164 360-164=196* of duration.


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## Stumpys Customs (Jul 27, 2011)

I hope this thread is usefull. 
Feel free to add to it.


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## AUSSIE1 (Jul 28, 2011)

Using a torch to determine when a port opens can yield different no's when viewed by eye only. There are different ways that all work, torch, feeler strip, eye etc. Using a torch at the opposite side to your viewing can give the indication that a port is opening earlier than if you were to use a torch from the same side as your viewing. Personally I just eye every port as it opens and use a torch from the side I'm viewing. Sure a port may start to flow a tad before this but it gives baseline no's to work from for future reference. Some use a port map to set no's and I suppose when we quote no's, we should attach our method of measurement.


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Jul 28, 2011)

opcorn:opcorn:


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## Hank Chinaski (Jul 28, 2011)

Great thread Stumpy, thanks! I'd rep you if I could (hint hint to all ya'll out there)


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## theoctagon (Jul 28, 2011)

REP your way stumpy. This is a thread i really wanted to see!


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## atvguns (Aug 18, 2011)

Hey just now seen this thread good info thanks


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## KiwiOilBoiler (Aug 19, 2011)

thank you, thank you, thank you.....


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## WidowMaker (Aug 19, 2011)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Using a torch to determine when a port opens can yield different no's when viewed by eye only. There are different ways that all work, torch, feeler strip, eye etc. Using a torch at the opposite side to your viewing can give the indication that a port is opening earlier than if you were to use a torch from the same side as your viewing. Personally I just eye every port as it opens and use a torch from the side I'm viewing. Sure a port may start to flow a tad before this but it gives baseline no's to work from for future reference. Some use a port map to set no's and I suppose when we quote no's, we should attach our method of measurement.



===

By torch, is it safe to assume you mean light???


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## Kingsley (Aug 19, 2011)

Widowmaker,

I was thinking the same thing. "torch" is what the people across the pond call a fashlight. I could just picture some knob reading this and using their oxy/ac on their PC. What a hoot that would be! 

The questions we would get. 

How do you keep the pc cool with the torch?

Should I shave the other eyebrow off so they grow back evenly?

Does anyone know if I can salvage this PC after I welded them together with my torch?

haha

Marty


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## MattCrowe (Aug 19, 2011)

Kingsley said:


> Widowmaker,
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. "torch" is what the people across the pond call a fashlight. I could just picture some knob reading this and using their oxy/ac on their PC. What a hoot that would be!
> 
> ...



Come'on a torch it a battery powered light, its about time you guys caught up, the oxy/acet you refer to is not a torch, its a gas axe.


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## tdi-rick (Aug 19, 2011)

MattCrowe said:


> Come'on a torch it a battery powered light, its about time you guys caught up, the oxy/acet you refer to is not a torch, its a gas axe.


 

:hmm3grin2orange: 

What they call an oxy/acetlene torch, we call a blowpipe 

It's all a bit like;

bonnet = hood
mudguard = fender
boot = trunk
footpath = sidewalk
railway = railroad
railway sleeper = railroad tie
aeroplane = airplane

US citizens can't understand a damned thing we say so our actors have to change their accents to get a gig on US telly etc, etc.


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## roncoinc (Aug 19, 2011)

print this out in color on good photo paper at hi res and it's great


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## parrisw (Aug 22, 2011)

You can buy nice degree wheel's for cheap. Myself I wouldn't print one out. Hard to wipe off a piece of paper when you get grease on it.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 23, 2011)

Flashlight? Flash the light! Why would you..........flash light?  Torch it!


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## komatsuvarna (Aug 23, 2011)

I perfer not to print a degree wheel too. You have to get it centered up perfectly or you could end up a degree or so off. The printed one i had looked perfect, but it contradicted numbers. I check mine 2 ways to be sure its right, and i could never get the same numbers twice with a print out. A drill chuck will run you more than a good degree wheel.


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## steve316 (Aug 23, 2011)

*cheap drill chuck*

I just bough a 1/2" chuck from travlers on sale for this month @ 18.00. part # 63-100-004h they also have a 5/8" one for 25.00 part #63-100-005h.


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## 046 (Aug 23, 2011)

also in the change degree to zero camp after finding TDC. 
anything to reduce confusion is good. 

excellent thread.. thanks for sharing

here's my degree wheel for the Harley


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## DSS (Aug 27, 2011)

Good thread Stumpy. I'd spank ya if you didn't get so damn excited.opcorn:


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## Stumpys Customs (Aug 28, 2011)

DSS said:


> Good thread Stumpy. I'd spank ya if you didn't get so damn excited.opcorn:


 
Thanks, Could ya do it anyhoo? I could use some excitement.:msp_biggrin:


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## trappermike (Aug 28, 2011)

I can suggest also another easy way to find out your port's duration with the degree wheel,which is sometimes less confusing and involves no real math.

-Move your piston so the port in question is just cracking open.Then set your degree wheel to zero. Next rotate the engine in it's corect direction so the port fully opens and then continue until the piston is just at the closing point of the port,then read your degree wheel,there is your total port duration.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 28, 2011)

I just spotted this thread. Stumpy, you have measured the strato timing incorrectly. It is measured from when the piston cutaway appears over the bottom of the transfer ports - that's when the strato port starts to flow. 

A lot of people have made the same mistake as you and looked through the strato port opening. However, if you think of the strato port is just the other half of the intake system it will quickly make sense. Since when have you ever heard of an intake port with 196 degrees of duration.

The Husky stratos with the removeable transfer port covers are easy to work with. All you have to do is remove the cover and watch for the piston cutaway to appear above the bottom of the transfer port. That 576 looks like it will present some interesting number gymnastics to try and determine the point of opening.

The strato timing is really a critical timing figure when porting the stratos. I found that matching the intake and strato timing gave the best power. Usually the strato timing is longer than the intake timing, maybe by 10 degrees. 

When the timing is matched, you get the maximum flow through the intake system, with the maximum base compression.

The way factory stratos are set up with the intake timing being shorter, the strato port is setting the 'intake' duration and the intake port is being shortchanged from flowing all it could during that duration. That may work for the EPA, but not for me.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 28, 2011)

I also note the 11 degrees of blowdown. The Husky stratos have very low blowdown figures. The 450 I worked on had 12 degrees and another fellow measured a 455 at 12.5 degrees.

I sacrificed a piston and found that only another 2 degrees (taking the blowdown to 14 degrees) was enough to get the cutting speed up. I also did a little trick with the top of the piston crown to shape it to the top of the exhaust port. This greatly increased the area during the blowdown period and felt like I had added another 2 degress to get 16 degrees of blowdown. Shaping the crown kept the timing figures down and the increase in flow more than made up for any loss in compression.

The solution to measuring the strato timing may be to drill a small hole in the side of the transfer port and look through that. Shine a bright light down the strato intake and look through the hole to see when the light appears. You can then patch and fill the hole with GB Weld later.


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## trappermike (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm not sure about your blowdown times,they don't jive with any I've ever seen on performance or racing engines,or any other. Long ago I compiled a list of port timing figures from various famous and successful racing engines of various types(Yamaha,Kawasaki,Suzuki,McCulloch,others),the blowdown times range from the lowest of 20 degrees to a high of 37 degrees for very high rpm high output full race ported engines.
I'm not sure how you are measuring them(Different from me somehow),I calculate them just as the factories do and some of my data is actually published by them so I know it's right.
Also I've been building racing engines for almost 40 years.
I don't know why they are so different...
If there was only 10 degrees blowdown time in your engine,your transfer ports would be almost as tall as your exhaust port. Racers shoot for more blowdown time,so the exaust pressure in the cylinder is much lower before the relatively low pressure transfer fuel charge tries to get up into the cylinder for better filling.
A relatively normal blowdown time for a standard to medium performance 2-stroke is 26-30 degrees.
The minimum figure that I gave above of 20 degrees blowdown time was unusually low from an engine that was altered a little incorrectly,and it did not run very stable or well.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 28, 2011)

Mike, I know exactly how you feel about those blowdown times, I come from a racing background myself. When I first looked at the 450 blowdown times I had to measure it three times to believe it!

First off, there is no expansion chamber on these can muffler saws to pack the charge back in. The second point on the Husky stratos is the long transfer tunnels. 

I tried to get my head around how such short blowdown times could work. I figure it is the long transfer tunnels that do it. On the 450 I noticed I was getting blowback into the tunnels halfway down to the crankcase.

What I figure is happening is that the tunnels trap the exhaust gas in a column above the air of the strato charge. When reverse flow finally occurs so that the charge can move into the cylinder, the exhaust gases trapped in the tunnels are the first to enter. They move in, collide and then start moving up the back of the cylinder. Normally, if it was the fuel mixture charge, there would be considerable mixing of the fuel mixture and exhaust gases. That doesn't happen with the Huskys as it is exhaust mixing with exhaust to establish the flow.

After the exhaust gases establish the flow, the strato air charge comes in and then followed by the fuel mixture. The relatively long transfer times allows the transfer flow to keep going to make up for the lag caused by the blowback into the transfers. The result is better trapping efficiency with the lower exhaust port. All in all, there is less mixing and better trapping efficiency in the Husky design.

That's why I sacrificed the piston (trimmed the exhaust side to alter the timing). I didn't want to scrap a jug by assuming that the blowdown was too short and end up raising the exhaust port too high. 

What works, is just that - what works.

That is also why I put the curvature on the piston crown to follow the curve of the top of the exhaust port. I had tried that mod on other engines with good blowdown and there was nothing in it. However, on the 450 it made a big difference. The increase in the area of blowdown is actually more than if the roof of the exhaust port was completely flat. Since the opening follows a curve that is longer than a straight line across the port, the area upon opening (when the exhaust gas pressure differential is the highest) is greater than the flat port.

Only the edge of the piston is nipped to create the sudden opening. The mod allows the engine to retain an extra 2 degrees of the power stroke and an extra 2 degrees of cylinder trapping. I picked up the lost compression by changing to a colder plug that took up more space (and removed the gasket).


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## trappermike (Aug 28, 2011)

OK,I think I understand you better now,you are talking about just one peculiar engine,right?
I read about an old design tried many decades ago where Suzuki experimented with a transfer port almost as high as the exhaust,I don't think it worked for them though. 
So I think I understand what you're thinking and what you did,you made a "trough" down into the piston crown in front of the exaust port,so the piston opens the port sooner,same effect as raising the ex. port without grinding the port,to get more ex. duration and blowdown time,am I correct so far?
If I'm right what you did is an old 2-stroke mod trick,you can make a trough in the piston crown in front of the ex. port or transfer port to increase port duration,I've done that trick many times in the past fot various reasons and it works fine. In your case you got the same effect as raising the ex. port without actually raising the ex. port and losing comp. ratio much,that was good thinking.I don't know how deep you made the trough,but from my experiments you can make it pretty deep depending on how thick the piston crown is above the ring,I wouldn't be afraid to go 2-3mm deep....I try to leave 1.5 to 2mm meat above the piston after digging the troughs...
Did increasing the blowdown time this way help the engine,I would think it helped a lot,with only 10-12 degrees blowdown time,holy crap!! With so little blowdown time,under normal circumstances a motor would experience exhaust pressure trying to go back down the transfers into the crankcase,and blow back out the carb,a miserable condition.
So did it help this bizarre design? I hope so. I'm really curious about this.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 29, 2011)

The 'trough' I cut was just for testing purposes. I first went with the shaped crown and the stock 12 degrees of blowdown. Then to 14 degrees of blowdown and then to 16 degrees, both with the shaped crown. I found that with the 13,000 rev limiter that the 16 degrees and shaped crown was pushing the revs up too high. I then cut the jug for 14 degrees, but left the crown flat. That was close, but it needed the shaped crown to get it where I wanted it. 

With the rakers set properly and a sharp chain, the rev limiter is no problem. However, if the chain gets dull the limiter will let me know it is time to swap out the chain.

I've done lots of other mods to the engine to get it where I wanted it; widen the exhaust port to 63% of bore, increased transfer area by 12.5%, ported the strato cutaway, increased intake timing (to the stock strato timing of 154 degrees), muffler mod of 150%+ of port area, a 570/575 carb, stuffed crankpin, higher flow air filter - so the exhaust timing is just part of the whole package.

These strato engines are a hoot. They have a tremendous amount of time/area for the intake cycle. They aren't as good as a rotary engine, but with that much area (intake port and transfer port area combined for intake) they can really breath if you allow them to. That is why I have the 570 carb on it. Since the intake timing is 'stock' (154 degrees for the strato port), it still has a very broad powerband.

Edit: The engine runs like it is a 60-65cc engine. I'm waiting for a re-match against my mate's 365. He narrowly beat me in 22" hardwood last year, but after some of the more recent mods I made, I think he is toast. - (and the powerhead weighs 10.8lbs)


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

Whew,what a relief! You're not crazy after all,I couldn't understand you in the beginning...:msp_biggrinI'm joking) OK,I'll admit that I am...:redface:
Yes,one of the main reasons for using the "Trough" method was because you could experiment somewhat with ex. and trans. port timing without butchering the cylinder ports,you can replace the piston cheaper and easier(If the mods don't work well) and save the cylinder if you're experimenting.
Actually I'm fond of using the trough method to experiment on changing transfer port timing,they are not so easy to grind,and sometimes the mods don't work,it's hard to predict what transfer timing mods will actually do,but cylinder isn't ruined.:msp_smile:
I've never seen this motor so I can't really imagine how it's designed,it's interesting if not quirky.
Sounds like you did some serious mods to the little guy,you should slaughter your friend's saw in the next match.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 29, 2011)

Yeah Mike, when I was racing bikes I never threw away an old piston. I would keep them and butcher them to try different timing figures or configurations (ie: staggered transfer openings). For some reason it is not an idea that has caught on with the chainsaw crowd, you don't read of anyone that is doing it.

You never know when you'll go too far with timing - until you go too far. With the piston trick you can find the sweet spot and then continue cutting the piston to confirm it was the sweet spot - then port the jug to the desired timing and put in a fresh piston.


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

Terry you are exactly right. It's really an old-timer's trick,I've never seen anyone else use it in over 30 years,but it's a brilliant trick for exactly the reason you just gave.I gotta hunch you did a lot of mods on 2-stroke motorcycles... I learned as a motorcycle speed-tuning tool in my young days,back when 2-stroke bikes were king of the street,I rode a 500 Kawasaki triple for 13 years and could adsolutely waste any size bike on the street with it's fearsome acceleration,but as you probably know,the 500 had diabolical handling and absolutely no brakes,people who rode them and lived to tell about it are almost non-existant. I suffer a lot nowadays from arthritus in the many injuries I inflicted upon myself riding the thing,I'm probably only here because I got married and had to sell it. I could hear Heaven calling my name a few times on that thing,some truly scary moments that I would never want to re-live...:msp_scared:
You have to put your knowhow into something bigger and more conventional I think,like an 084 Stihl,I'd like to see the results of that! I can tell you could build something truly maniacal out of one.


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

That's why I had a hard time understanding what you're saying before,your Auzzie slang kinda threw me off,sorry.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 29, 2011)

"It's really an old-timer's trick" - Crikey, you pegged me, I've been working on engines since 1964.


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

Wow...and I thought I was old.....:msp_mellow:


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## Terry Syd (Aug 29, 2011)

Gee, thanks for the back-handed complement - I'll return it as soon as I find an opening to deliver one.


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

Sorry but I'll bet I wasn't the only one confused by Australian terminology,I mean I'm a bit of a dunce sometimes. Here in North America we are on the "Upper" side of the planet(Northern Hemisphere),so we're not always hip about what's going on on the lower side of the planet(Southern Hemisphere), Up is North right?,so that's why you guys are called "Down Under"? You better my experience by ten years at least,I was just a kid in the 60's and missed the best cars and bikes.:msp_sad:
Did you play with old saws back then or were just playing with bikes way back,I'm wondering if you're familiar with the older saws,like the Stihl Lightning...I recently sold one,I've got an even older 275 Canadien chainsaw,125cc,but I doubt those old things were exported.I'm hanging onto that one for restoration and a Hotsaw build- an antique hotsaw. It has a few special weapons though like a removable head and 6 transfer ports,I'm looking forward to what I can get out of it.

Anyway I think I've strayed way off topic and better stop.
Good luck with the 'Usky mate.


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## 046 (Aug 29, 2011)

what a clever idea to cut piston first to try out timing. transferring final timing settings to jug. 

thanks for sharing... 



Terry Syd said:


> Yeah Mike, when I was racing bikes I never threw away an old piston. I would keep them and butcher them to try different timing figures or configurations (ie: staggered transfer openings). For some reason it is not an idea that has caught on with the chainsaw crowd, you don't read of anyone that is doing it.
> 
> You never know when you'll go too far with timing - until you go too far. With the piston trick you can find the sweet spot and then continue cutting the piston to confirm it was the sweet spot - then port the jug to the desired timing and put in a fresh piston.


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2011)

trappermike said:


> Sorry but I'll bet I wasn't the only one confused by Australian terminology,I mean I'm a bit of a dunce sometimes. Here in North America we are on the "Upper" side of the planet(Northern Hemisphere),so we're not always hip about what's going on on the lower side of the planet(Southern Hemisphere), Up is North right?,so that's why you guys are called "Down Under"? You better my experience by ten years at least,I was just a kid in the 60's and missed the best cars and bikes.:msp_sad:
> Did you play with old saws back then or were just playing with bikes way back,I'm wondering if you're familiar with the older saws,like the Stihl Lightning...I recently sold one,I've got an even older 275 Canadien chainsaw,125cc,but I doubt those old things were exported.I'm hanging onto that one for restoration and a Hotsaw build- an antique hotsaw. It has a few special weapons though like a removable head and 6 transfer ports,I'm looking forward to what I can get out of it.
> 
> Anyway I think I've strayed way off topic and better stop.
> Good luck with the 'Usky mate.


 
Those 275's are quite rare. Would be shame to cut it up. I have a 270 dissembled. 

Where in BC are you? I'm down in Victoria.


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## RiverRat2 (Aug 29, 2011)

046 said:


> what a clever idea to cut piston first to try out timing. transferring final timing settings to jug.
> 
> thanks for sharing...



it is a good Idea,,,, but I'm bettin ,,,, he didnt think of it,,,,,, some body clued him in,,,:wink2:

Them Aussie's
are smart,,,,, just not that smart!!!!! LOLOL!!!:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm only a few miles away from you in Duncan. I saw the old Canadien here in a pawn shop about 10 years ago,I knew what it was and got it for $29. I took it home planning to restore it like new,then I saw the whole muffler was missing,kinda' shot up that plan. But seeing that it had a removable head,six transfer ports,and borable cast sleeve I decided to make an antique Hotsaw out of it,since it would be a dream to modify,125cc,and I've got some big race carbs,and perfect race pipe blueprints and templates for it too. Only problem the piston is fried,I talked to Wiseco and they may be able to make one for it. When I was in Victoria about 20 years ago I went to a little machine shop to have my billet alum. 090 head re-machined a bit,an older guy there said he was involved with the Canadien factory in Vancouver when it was going,and he still had some new pistons for the big old Canadiens(Of course I never knew I would need one then),I'm afraid he's probably gone now though...
They have a little Forest Exibition here most years and sometimes feature the odd saws,so I want to challenge the local Stihl and Husky dealers to a match against their 088's,3120's,and blow them outta the water with the ancient Canadien:hmm3grin2orange:, I don't think it would be hard at all...
Let me know what you're doing,or if you got an idea where to get a new piston. The cast sleeve in the cyl. is pretty thick,I calculated I could bore to almost 140+ cc's.


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2011)

trappermike said:


> I'm only a few miles away from you in Duncan. I saw the old Canadien here in a pawn shop about 10 years ago,I knew what it was and got it for $29. I took it home planning to restore it like new,then I saw the whole muffler was missing,kinda' shot up that plan. But seeing that it had a removable head,six transfer ports,and borable cast sleeve I decided to make an antique Hotsaw out of it,since it would be a dream to modify,125cc,and I've got some big race carbs,and perfect race pipe blueprints and templates for it too. Only problem the piston is fried,I talked to Wiseco and they may be able to make one for it. When I was in Victoria about 20 years ago I went to a little machine shop to have my billet alum. 090 head re-machined a bit,an older guy there said he was involved with the Canadien factory in Vancouver when it was going,and he still had some new pistons for the big old Canadiens(Of course I never knew I would need one then),I'm afraid he's probably gone now though...
> They have a little Forest Exibition here most years and sometimes feature the odd saws,so I want to challenge the local Stihl and Husky dealers to a match against their 088's,3120's,and blow them outta the water with the ancient Canadien:hmm3grin2orange:, I don't think it would be hard at all...
> Let me know what you're doing,or if you got an idea where to get a new piston. The cast sleeve in the cyl. is pretty thick,I calculated I could bore to almost 140+ cc's.


 
That sounds pretty cool. Do you remember the name of the machine shop or the person you dealt with? 275 parts are not easy to come by. I'm guessing you could retrofit a piston from a dirtbike motor or something. PM JacobJ on here he would know more then me. He's got a couple 275's, one I sent him.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 29, 2011)

Yeah Rat, I ain't that smart. Guys were already doing it when I started doing it. In fact, if you look at an old copy of Gordon Jennings book on Two-Stroke Tuning you will see where he mentioned the mod and gave an illustration of how to do it.


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## trappermike (Aug 29, 2011)

I can sort of remember how to get to the machine shop,but never knew the name or remember the street address unfortunately.

I learned the piston notch trick from an expert in 1975 who used to work for Suzuki in building and designing their competition engines for road racing and motocross,for a week straight he taught our class on 2-stroke speed tuning, even a few tricks I never heard of since. Also that method was published in a few speed tuning books,and Yamaha used to have a really good book on racing 2-strokes and data of their own,all their factory racing secrets,sure wished I had a copy of that... I think it may have been called Yamaha Speed Secrets,something like that,written around 1973...I use their specs to port an RD350 steet bike to the TR3 road racer specs,wow what a difference,no experimenting, the full data was there.
Sadly 2-stoke bikes are almost extinct now so most of that kind of info and data is long gone. I was horrified to see recently a lot of the newer MX bikes are 4-strokes-gag!!:msp_angry:

Maybe one day I could meet up with you in Victoria and we could see if the shop is still there and the guy is still around... As for a new piston,the old one is a full skirt design unlike modern motors,but I think Wiseco can modify a 4-stroke blank,before the ring grooves are cut,then they can cut me 2 grooves for pinned rings,not the 3 4-stroke ring grooves. To just go and make a new design piston is too much $$$(15 pistons min.),but they said they could probably make one for me from the blank of an existing similar piston. Anyway,no time or money for it now,it's a project for later,I have everything else to build it though. Of course the old Canadien will never be capable of competing in proffessional Loggers Sports(The crank and rod design are too weak I fear for real high revs) but it will be ok and fun to see in small local events.:msp_smile:

By the way,many years ago there was an old guy in this town who I knew and he had the biggest collection of running antique chainsaws I ever saw or heard of. He used to bring the odd one to the shop to show us. One day he brought a big Mercury twin cylinder 2-man saw and ran it,wow what a crazy looking thing,,twin fishtail mufflers,big bicycle handlebars, etc.,cool. Anyway he's passed away now,but I sometimes wonder where all his saws went... :bang:


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2011)

trappermike said:


> I can sort of remember how to get to the machine shop,but never knew the name or remember the street address unfortunately.
> 
> I learned the piston notch trick from an expert in 1975 who used to work for Suzuki in building and designing their competition engines for road racing and motocross,for a week straight he taught our class on 2-stroke speed tuning, even a few tricks I never heard of since. Also that method was published in a few speed tuning books,and Yamaha used to have a really good book on racing 2-strokes and data of their own,all their factory racing secrets,sure wished I had a copy of that... I think it may have been called Yamaha Speed Secrets,something like that,written around 1973...I use their specs to port an RD350 steet bike to the TR3 road racer specs,wow what a difference,no experimenting, the full data was there.
> Sadly 2-stoke bikes are almost extinct now so most of that kind of info and data is long gone. I was horrified to see recently a lot of the newer MX bikes are 4-strokes-gag!!:msp_angry:
> ...


 
Cool stuff man. I'd love to meet up someday. Ya I wonder what happened to his collection. It'll surface someday.


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## young (Aug 29, 2011)

stumpyshusky said:


> I know this has been done before, but with the search bein the way it is I though I'd start a new thread. I'll go through how I set up & read a degree wheel. The saw it's on is a Husky 576xp without the base gasket installed.
> 
> I bought a 1/2' drill chuck from Harbor freight to mount to my wheel.
> 
> ...





stumpyshusky said:


> I use a home made piston stop made from an old plug & a bolt.
> [/img]http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy4/stump7997/saws050.jpg[/img]
> Install the stop & turn the degree wheel both ways against the stop & right down the numbers. Add those numbers together then divide by 2. example 59+63=122; 122/2= 61. set the wheel @ 61. Double check by turning the wheel the other way to the stop. you should get the same reading on each side of the stop.





stumpyshusky said:


> Once I git the wheel zeroed remove the stop & move on to the ex port. Turn the wheel in the same direction as the saw is running. Shine a light throught the plug hole, look fer the piston to just barely clear the top of the port. Look real close & set it to where the top of the piston is even with the top of the port. look @ the wheel & record the number. I've got 104* ATDC (after top dead center)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


stumpyshusky said:


> A quick note about my pointer, the piont on it is not in the middle. It's on the left side of the wire. No real reason just the way it is fer now.
> 
> Lets move on to the transfer ports. They can be hard to see exactly when they open up. Some you can shine a light through the plug hole & look through the ex port to see when it opens. Others you have to do the opposite. You may also have to shine the light in the plug hole & look through the plug plug hole @ the same time. Just take yer time & try different angles til you are comfortable with the reading you came up with.
> Basically the same as the ex port. Turn the crank the same direction as it runs till the piston is just even with the top of the port. record yer number & use the same math to find the duration fer the trans port. I've got 115* ATDC. SO 115 X 2 =230 360-230=130* of duration.



fixed you picture issue part 1


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## young (Aug 29, 2011)

stumpyshusky said:


> On to the intake. Keep turnin the crank in the same direction. Turn it past BDC (bottom dead center) till the bottom of the piston skirt is even with the bottom of the intake port. Record the reading. Now, on my wheel it reads a full 360 degrees. I have wrote the numbers on the wheel from 0-180 on that half of the wheel. I've come up with 106 degrees ABDC (after bottom dead center). 106 X 2=212 360-212=148* duration.


 


stumpyshusky said:


> Since this is a stratto saw I'll include the pics fer the stratto ports. Keep tunin the crank till you can see the port openin up. record that reading. I've got 82*. 82 X 2=164 360-164=196* of duration.


 
fixed part2


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## Stumpys Customs (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks young, I wonder what happend?? They were fine earlier.


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## young (Aug 30, 2011)

stumpyshusky said:


> Thanks young, I wonder what happend?? They were fine earlier.


 
looks like they disabled html code in posts

just use *img* tag on images.


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## RiverRat2 (Aug 30, 2011)

Terry Syd said:


> Yeah Rat, I ain't that smart. Guys were already doing it when I started doing it. In fact, if you look at an old copy of Gordon Jennings book on Two-Stroke Tuning you will see where he mentioned the mod and gave an illustration of how to do it.



LOLOL!!! Yeah Terry I raced 250CC class Moto cross bikes, 100 CC Yammy karts in the 70's.. and oh yeah R/C boats, I still have the same book by Mr. Jennings and read it also,,, I knew exactly where You learned it from,,,, Good on ya,,,, River rat rep for ya!!!!


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## powerking (Nov 19, 2011)

Ok, Im having a brain fart here.....does it make a difference what side you put the degree wheel on? Meaning flywheel side or clutch side? I wouldnt think so as long as your turning the motor in the direction that it runs correct?


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## Stumpys Customs (Nov 19, 2011)

powerking said:


> Ok, Im having a brain fart here.....does it make a difference what side you put the degree wheel on? Meaning flywheel side or clutch side? I wouldnt think so as long as your turning the motor in the direction that it runs correct?



That's correct and it really don't matter wich way you turn it as long as you start from TDC. The ports are gonna open & close the same either way.


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## Scooterbum (Dec 7, 2011)

This is just great....just great......Thanks Stumpy.
Since I found this thread, I've ordered a 12" degree wheel,reading my downloaded copy of Two Stroke Tuners Handbook and I'm trying to remember where I put that spare drill chuck........

I really thought I had CAD under control ..............Geez.






Oh well Merry Christmas All !!!!


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## ChainsawmanXX (Jan 4, 2012)

Stumpy, I dont think your photobucket is posting pictures anymore haha. 

Anywho where did you get your chuck for your degree wheel? I need one 


Couple more questions, Im experimenting with a wild thang next week. And I was wanting to know what you would recommend doing to it? Raising ports? How would you open the transfers? take out the plate in the transfers? Pop up? Windows? 


Thanks old bud. 
P.S i got a chance at the 090


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## mdavlee (Jan 4, 2012)

Those drill chucks are available at northern tool and hydraulics, lowes, and other places like that. Northern was $5 cheaper than lowes when I got mine.


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## Stumpys Customs (Jan 4, 2012)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Stumpy, I dont think your photobucket is posting pictures anymore haha.
> 
> Anywho where did you get your chuck for your degree wheel? I need one
> 
> ...


For some reason the HTML code got turned off, so my pics won't show up. 
Thanks for buyin a ticket buddy.

I got mine from Harbor Freight. I don't remember what it cost. Pretty cheap if I bought it:msp_biggrin:


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## ChainsawmanXX (Jan 4, 2012)

Stumpys Customs said:


> For some reason the HTML code got turned off, so my pics won't show up.
> Thanks for buyin a ticket buddy.
> 
> I got mine from Harbor Freight. I don't remember what it cost. Pretty cheap if I bought it:msp_biggrin:




Hmm.. I need to run to HF for tools anyway! A small dremnal for the port work. parts cleaner  

How are things going down your way?
Also dont remember if I told you...
Remember the 181 husky I was working on last spring? I got it running and found what was wrong with it. There was a chip in the Piston that I did not see, smack in the middle of the intake, causing it to free port. There for giving it no power and run like crap  
New piston, and she runs like a champ


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## Stumpys Customs (Jan 4, 2012)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Hmm.. I need to run to HF for tools anyway! A small dremnal for the port work. parts cleaner
> 
> How are things going down your way?
> Also dont remember if I told you...
> ...



Things are good. Good to hear about the 181. It's always the lil things that'll git ya.


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## petlele7456 (Jan 4, 2012)

turn the wheel all the way to the right take a reading then to the left & take the reading then use the math to find where you need to set it at. Make sure the reading is the same each way before you remove the stop. If the reading is the same then yer wheel is zeroed on the crank.


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## Stumpys Customs (Feb 11, 2012)

With the help of one of the MODS the pic issue has been resolved.


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