# Keeping cuts level????



## Soilarch (Sep 19, 2008)

Is there some tips or secrets to keeping your face cuts level/perpendicular?

I always seem to cut with the blade down about 5-10 degrees. It's really really really aggravating to me. I've already improved in "matching" the cuts for single-cookie face notches but I can't get the hang of keeping them level.

I'm to the point I've thought about a shorter bar to balance better and have even searched the saw over for a good place to mount a little bubble level. (I don't think Madsen's listed a 'lightweight' bar as short as mine.) I even fill up with fuel when it's convenient...it hardly ever/never is.


Obviously "eye-balling" doesn't seem to work. And my current practice of letting the saw balance horizontally then pushing down on the handle to raise the bar angle hasn't helped too much. The far sides of my felling cuts tend to dip as well, although not as bad.

My saw is a MS460 with a 24" bar. I'm just a firewood cutter so I'd appreciate the pros input here.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 19, 2008)

I've been trying for 30 years and haven't succeeded yet. Start each falling cut by telling myself "keep the nose up!" - doesn't help, it runs down hill anyhow. I did a bit better this year but I ain't about to post any pictures of my stumps...at least not without 'neatening them up a bit'.

Harry K


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## GASoline71 (Sep 19, 2008)

You'll prolly never make 'em "Exactly perfect"... however the only way you get better at it is practice. Ya gotta fall a lot of trees to get a keen eye for it. 

Gary


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## Soilarch (Sep 19, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Just keep trying to hit your goal!
> 
> It's all in how you start the cut. Pushing up or down on the handle is not good and is not going to make much if any difference once you've started the cut.



Very true....what I meant was that BEFORE I start the cut I let the saw 'hang' in a loose left hand. Then I rotate it up about 10degrees as I ease on the throttle...then put the chain the bark.

I've already had some beginner's bouts with a used saw that came with a junked bar. It would 'curve' the cut so bad that it would bind itself after about 10". THAT is even more aggravating!! New bar and she cuts laser-straight even after I've almost worn/sharpened through a whole chain. (And yes, I've been flipping the bar every couple of sharpenings.) Have yet to find a place around here that can grind the old bar true again.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 19, 2008)

If you can, get someone to go with you and give you feedback on how level the bar is. Have them hold their hand level or slanted as is the bar of your saw (if you have ear muffs on and a loud saw running, you would not be able to hear them, so hand signals.)

So far as making a level cut into the tree, you can draw lines on the tree with a magic marker before cutting. If the saw is not cutting straight, check to be sure the "left" cutters are the same size as the "right" cutters. Use calipers. One side may have been sharpened more or ground down more than the other side.

I think the bubble level is a good idea.

Otherwise just practice at home if this is the only place you can get a helper. Saw not running of course... Just walk up to a tree, hold the saw what you think is level, then get feedback from your helper.


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## John Ellison (Sep 19, 2008)

I think some people might not agree but IMO the cuts need to be made in relation to the tree, so a level would be no use at all. Most trees do not grow out of the ground perfectly straight.
If you fall a tree with considerable side lean the stump will look like you were letting the bar tip droop down. I believe you should make the cuts perpendicular to the stem and forget level.
You can scratch with your saw just thru the bark and then stand back and look if you are consistently way off.


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## smokechase II (Sep 19, 2008)

*level*

Good to see you back John.


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## 2dogs (Sep 19, 2008)

If you can find a tree where you can leave a very high stump, say 3 or 4 feet high, then practice cutting slices off of it while making level cuts. Take your time and check the off side frequently.


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## 056 kid (Sep 19, 2008)

Its really just a practice thing. Also i think if you start or sort of train yourself to do it one way, thats the way that yo will continue.

Just spend alot of time looking at the the stump that you will be dealing with. befor you even cut it.
Start a cut and leave the saw in the tree, step back and look at yoour work. If it aint level start a new cut.


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## 2dogs (Sep 19, 2008)

056 kid said:


> Its really just a practice thing. Also i think if you start or sort of train yourself to do it one way, thats the way that yo will continue.
> 
> Just spend alot of time looking at the the stump that you will be dealing with. befor you even cut it.
> Start a cut and leave the saw in the tree, step back and look at yoour work. If it aint level start a new cut.



Good advice.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 19, 2008)

Thats how I do it on trees that matter, slam er' in, step back and look, finnish cut. I like to cut level, gives you a wider hinge on a sideleaner, I too have thought about how nice a built in level would be. It's like my buddy once told me, " I have a built in level, I just sh!t my pants and if it flows to one side, it must be off." Take heed.


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## clearance (Sep 19, 2008)

2dogs said:


> If you can find a tree where you can leave a very high stump, say 3 or 4 feet high, then practice cutting slices off of it while making level cuts. Take your time and check the off side frequently.



Good thought. I say to use the dogs as well, stick them in and move the saw, its easier than holding the saw alone. Practice is the best way though. I have got a lot better, thousands of trees later that is.


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## Bushler (Sep 20, 2008)

Start your cut without using the dogs, its easier to feel how the saw is cutting. Don"t dog the saw in until yo've cut a bar width deep.

You have more control by free handing a start, because your hands are seperated by the disance tween the handle bars and pistol grip. When you dog in first, there's a major tendency for the saw to torque around the single point, (the dogs)

Not sure if I made that clear, its late , I'm tired.


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 20, 2008)

I scribe a line around the tree with the saw.
Try to get it as level as possible, if it's not then use it as a referance to adjust when you cut in.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 20, 2008)

I do that to mark the thickness I want the hinge and the height of the backcut in relation to the facecut. Vertical lines to mark the hinge and horizontal lines going from the notch to the back of the tree on both sides. I start my backcut on the horizontal lines which squares me to the notch then I cut up to my hinge lines on both sides to square up the hinge then get ready for action.


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## forestryworks (Sep 20, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Start your cut without using the dogs, its easier to feel how the saw is cutting. Don"t dog the saw in until yo've cut a bar width deep.
> 
> You have more control by free handing a start, because your hands are seperated by the disance tween the handle bars and pistol grip. When you dog in first, there's a major tendency for the saw to torque around the single point, (the dogs)
> 
> Not sure if I made that clear, its late , I'm tired.



good point, took me a few trees to figure that out


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## stihl 440 (Sep 21, 2008)

*ummmmm*



GASoline71 said:


> You'll prolly never make 'em "Exactly perfect"... however the only way you get better at it is practice. Ya gotta fall a lot of trees to get a keen eye for it.
> 
> Gary



Ummmmm.....you can......I know a man that can....it ain't me either. He's been loggin'/cuttin' for 25 years he gets them level every time. He taught me...........that's the main thing in falling...get the cut level.... I've yet to master this...but I seen him cut this tree that he had to double bore cut.......he bored in level the first time...then came around to the other side and bore in.....not even being able to see the other cut....he finished up the hinge.....cut the strap and she was gone. After it went down.....I looked at his stump.......his other bore cut wasn't an 1/8" off from the other one....that's the most dead on I've seen yet.......I chit you not....... I've been cuttin' for sum time myself, but you cant beat the veterans. I get my cuts level.......that's the main thing.....take your time.....get the saw level before you cut..... I cut ALAP.......most of the time......:greenchainsaw:


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 22, 2008)

My dad's cuts are amazingly exact like that. I have a good eye for detail, but he still impresses me. He's big on keeping them perfectly level/true and clean in every way. Glad I have a guy like that to look up to and not let me settle for less.


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## Greenbay (Sep 24, 2008)

I wonder if there are dogs on each side of the bar. I noticed on some smaller saw that only have dogs on one side it can tend to pull down.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 25, 2008)

How you enter the wood is how you're going to cut.

I'm going with the practice practice practice routine.


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## tatra805 (Sep 25, 2008)

just my 2 novice cents

When you are throwing a ball to a target, what are you looking at? The ball or the target?

And yes even by looking at the target and not keeping an eye on the ball you are more succesfull to hit the target.

The human body is a nice piece of equipment that compensates and drives a lot of things to make your arm swing the right way to get that ball on target.

I noticed the same thing with cutting. Look at the place where you want to end and it is as if your body is positioning the saw to go there.

If I keep focussing on the saw itself it just doesnt work out. Remember how much your body is moving while cutting, if you try to control your saw by thinking your active brain might do you short.

I am sure that you have to be used to handle your saw, your body needs to know what it is handling (like throwing a ball for the first time, it will also not be as precise)


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## toddstreeservic (Sep 25, 2008)

+1 :agree2: I scribe a line with my saw tip


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## superfire (Sep 26, 2008)

*praktice maces perfect*

one thing i found some greenhorns doing is standing wrong. me i kneel down to get the best support for the saw. also i am a low stumper lees chance of a stump being left to destroy equipment . some tree i just say skrew it and high stump because of rotten of krap in the stump zone.


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## testlight (Sep 27, 2008)

Duct tape a level on your saw, don't let the saw out of your hands for three days and nights, keep the bar level at all times. On the forth day replace the level with an orange, continue this exercise for another three days. On the seventh day your bar and level will be one and the same.


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## lmalterna (Oct 2, 2008)

I wrap a peice of rope around the stump and mark the circle with a yellow carpenters pencil. This helps me keep straight - then I dra my notch but I am going to try epoxying a puck level to the upper cover. 

I have not cut enough, consistantly to get it right "by eye".

2Door


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## Ivan H. (Oct 5, 2008)

I have the same problem.I find if I make my undercut first that I make my face level,and don't overcut,or or miss the face.


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## stumpjumper83 (Oct 15, 2008)

*Levels on chainsaws....*

I had a tree go where it wanted instead of where I wanted due to me cutting an angle in the backcut. So I bought a line level and zip tied it to the mesh grid on the starter housing on my 460, 24" bar too btw. If I remember right the level was hard to use, I'm thinking that the vibes from the saw messed with the bubble. Anyhow, I practiced scribing lines either with the bar nose, or with a lumber crayon. After a bit of practice, I'm doing better. My thing is not to get into a hurry and just wack the tree off, take your time and mark it out, check your gun twice, and take your time. A second eye also helps...


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## 056 kid (Oct 15, 2008)

When i start a flat face or back cut. I like to pull back as the bar buries, then push her foward to set the dawgs in one motion. on the second face cut i pivot the saw out of the kirf, make my face angle(about 30 digrees) and immediately dog in. After about a yeear of humboldting i will NEVER turn back. SO much easier!!!

Unless im falling up hill.. or cutting hollow butts..


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## toddstreeservic (Oct 15, 2008)

The guy I work with showed me this trick to make the 2nd cut on the wedge easier. Make your first cut, then take 2 little twigs and stick them in the back of the cut on either side so they are sticking out. This makes it easier to see wear the back of you first cut is so you can meet it. Cheap easy and works good.


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## Ramblewood (Mar 26, 2010)

I have glued a puck level to my 029 and it does help . I tried to do it on my 441 but there is no place flat enough to keep the bubble centered when the bar is level . And the bubble does turn into lots of little bubbles when the saw is rollin . I keep a small roll of fluorescent green string and go around bigger trees with it to give me a reference line and sometimes use a yellow lumber crayon to mark the hinge I want to leave . I would love to have a few acres of big, straight trees to practice on instead of random hardwoods where no two are alike .


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