# Bobcat or ASV for High-Flow Mulching Head?



## Samson09

Greetings- Pretty much like the FAE UML/SSL 150 for the mulching head (other suggestions/feedback welcomed)...trying to decide which track skid to run it with: Bobcat T-320 w/demo undercarriage and steel tracks and forestry package, or ASV PT-100 Forestry Model (Presently Terex). Suggestions and opinions please. Thanks.


----------



## redprospector

What ever you choose, when it breaks down, and it will break down. The ASV undercarrage parts are about twice as high as the Bobcat parts. The ASV rubber tracks are outrageous too. The cheapest aftermarket tracks I've found for mine are about $2000 each. I don't even want to talk about OEM tracks.
I'm running a 2001 ASV 4810 with a Gyro trac head right now. It's a good machine, but I'm seriously considering going to Bobcat when I upgrade. 

Andy


----------



## catbuster

Bobcat. Wait a little bit,and look at the M series. The T850 (8500 tip,not ROC) Looks like it will be abeast at 100+ horse (High-flow will be much better with 110 instead of 92) and more boom lift,allowing for a bigger head. 

But between the 2,the ASV seems to be way more tippy and has a btter chance of rolling forward with the head up in the air. The bobcat is a much tougher machine.and I'd go for it.


----------



## joesawer

I have nothing good to say about ASV track systems or fiberglass hoods.


----------



## Samson09

*thanks*

thanks for the feedback guys...yea I heard about the new M series Bobcat track skid coming out...heard it was over 100 horse and weighs around 13,000- sales guys here says it should be coming out in June. Could function also as a little dozer I suppose. Besides the steel track system just seems like a huge advantage when considering wear factor in abrasive terrain. Thanks again.


----------



## Lamboll

You may want to consider stepping up in HP to a smaller dedicated track machine, unless you need the versatility of the SS unit. There are track machines 130HP that weigh on or about 10K lbs with the head.


----------



## kkottemann

Check out super trak....also consider gyro trac head or denis ciamf head...


----------



## bluestem

catbuster said:


> Bobcat. Wait a little bit,and look at the M series. The T850 (8500 tip,not ROC) Looks like it will be abeast at 100+ horse (High-flow will be much better with 110 instead of 92) and more boom lift,allowing for a bigger head.
> 
> But between the 2,the ASV seems to be way more tippy and has a btter chance of rolling forward with the head up in the air. The bobcat is a much tougher machine.and I'd go for it.



Hey cat, anymore info on this new T850? We have both a Bobcat t300 with the bobcat forestry mower and an older ASV with a Seppi and are looking to phase out the ASV for all the reasons mentioned above. Everyone at work likes the Bobcat and we are thinking of going that direction (we need something more versatile than a dedicated forestry mulcher).


----------



## Samson09

bluestem said:


> Hey cat, anymore info on this new T850? We have both a Bobcat t300 with the bobcat forestry mower and an older ASV with a Seppi and are looking to phase out the ASV for all the reasons mentioned above. Everyone at work likes the Bobcat and we are thinking of going that direction (we need something more versatile than a dedicated forestry mulcher).



stem-local Bobcat Salesman says the info they have now is VERY vague- says they have training on it in June, and right now it is passing all the legal channels (EPA, OSHA, etc., etc.) before release...so I'm thinking hopefully by August?


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*High flow mulching head on Schaffer Wheel Loader*

Hi Guys, 

I was just after any feedback you can give me. 
It's an interesting post you have up here. 

We are going to release in Australia an articulated loader 9330T-high flow. 
This will have a 130hp water cooled deutz matched to a load sensing bosch/rexroth hydrostatic pump. It will be designed for 150 litres per minute at 250 bar, maybe not the biggest flow on the market but it will definitely do this. Some customers of mine that own skid steers have put flow meters on their machines and have been suprised at the actual results. 

The 9330 wheel loader is built from scratch for the job, it has a purpose built hydraulic cooling package (one side step is now an extra cooler, even the standard Schaffer Loaders have good cooling!), extra large alternator, full underbelly protection, optional plexiglass windscreen (unlike a skid steer the cabin is somewhat protected from the mulching head by the mast), ride control (nitrogen filled shock absorber on the mast) for long distance travelling, air intake goes through a few filters including self cleaning precleaner and a whole lot of other extra's to make it right for the job. Schaffer are serious about supplying the right machine for the job and construct different builds depending on the country the machine is going to. 

You will get a much greater lift capacity than a skid steer as you have a longer wheel base and more weight out the back of the rear axle, giving you superior lift at the front. 

Obviously you can operate other tools - augers, trenchers, 4-in-1, grab bucket, log grab, pallet forks with about a 3 tonne payload, use as a loader etc...

Road speed is standard at 20km/hr, but there is an optional 35km/hr. 
The mast is incredibly strong - its not made of a hollow box section that can be put out of shape, its made of solid 30mm plate. Pins are a minimum of 50mm, but many are 80mm and all have 5mm bushes - the German manufacturer believes in building something to last. 

Tyres would be solid filled from the start and we have an option of remoulded aircraft tyres that were originally rated at 20 tonnes per tyre at 235 mph! Or cut resistant forrestry tyres. 
With a tyred vehicle you don't have all the under carriage and track maintenance which according to maintenance costs of bulldozers is meant to be around 70-80% of the total cost of running the machine. There are other forestry mulching units out there on wheels, but I think they are all dedicated (so not versatile for a contractor with other jobs - pallet forks, auger work, bucket work, logging) around 300hp so we are talking a totally different machine to the Schaffer wheel loader 9330 high flow. 

Being articulated the Schaffer 9330 wheel loader will be kind on the ground, even fully articulating it hardly scratches the sufaces saving your tyres and your back. Some potentially interested customers have told me mulching big trees could be an advantage as you just articulate to turn the mast so can mulch something down instead of having to reposition the loader. Also visibility out the back is great as you are sitting more on top of the engine than a skid steer. 

The centre of gavity is very low as there is a lot of weight low out the back of the rear axle, part of the reason you can pick up so much weight at the front. Also solid filled tyres really add to the low centre of gravity. 

I'm not suggesting this is a total replacement for skid steers. I'm a big believer for the right machine for the job and are interested in this introduction. Schaffer Loaders have sold this machine in Europe for other high flow applications and now we are looking at putting the mulching head on it. 

I've attached another story showing the environments where smaller Schaffer skid steer substitutes are found. 

Cheers in advance for any feedback, 

Cameron Moir View attachment 136921


View attachment 136922


----------



## komatsuvarna

It would probably work good as long as your on half way flat ground, and not working around any bigger trees. I have 2 wheel loaders(komatsu WA 150 and kawasaki 60) and there is no way that they would hang on were the compact track loaders go.


----------



## komatsuvarna

ASV or bobcat? Ive ran a few different combinations of these high flow mulching head. The ASV was the ONLY machine that did not run hot after 10/15 minutes of use. The ASV seem to have the most mulching power too. As said before, the undercarriage parts are outrageous, probably due to the Caterpillar design. Plus I wouldn't want a machine with plastic undercarriage parts.

The bobcat is pretty bullet proof. I prefer the John Deere CT series to the Bobcat T series. Both will run hot with the mulching heads.

I'm not familiar with the new T850, but sounds like it would be much better than the T300/T320.


----------



## STIHLTHEDEERE

komatsuvarna said:


> ASV or bobcat? Ive ran a few different combinations of these high flow mulching head. The ASV was the ONLY machine that did not run hot after 10/15 minutes of use. The ASV seem to have the most mulching power too. As said before, the undercarriage parts are outrageous, probably due to the Caterpillar design. Plus I wouldn't want a machine with plastic undercarriage parts.
> 
> The bobcat is pretty bullet proof. I prefer the John Deere CT series to the Bobcat T series. Both will run hot with the mulching heads.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the new T850, but sounds like it would be much better than the T300/T320.


asv undercarriage IS NOT cat designed,in fact cat is asv designed and built. asv has been bought by terex,and that is why cat has come out w/ their own design. new 259/279/289/299 series. asv loaders have the best high flow systems,and get the power to the ground the best. but that is where it ends. we have 6 of them in our fleet right now,i will not say they are junk,but they are EXTREMELY unreliable. they have some serious electrical issues. best performing/riding undercarriage on the market,but extremely expensive to maintain. bobcat has been bought out by doosan,and their new machines look good. but the new design is definately unproven.


----------



## komatsuvarna

STIHLTHEDEERE said:


> asv undercarriage IS NOT cat designed,in fact cat is asv designed and built. asv has been bought by terex,and that is why cat has come out w/ their own design. new 259/279/289/299 series. asv loaders have the best high flow systems,and get the power to the ground the best. but that is where it ends. we have 6 of them in our fleet right now,i will not say they are junk,but they are EXTREMELY unreliable. they have some serious electrical issues. best performing/riding undercarriage on the market,but extremely expensive to maintain. bobcat has been bought out by doosan,and their new machines look good. but the new design is definately unproven.



Well, i guess i had it backwards. Yes they they are the smoothest ride, but ill pass on the plastic stuff.


----------



## Samson09

*Takeuchi TL250?*

All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.

Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Samson09 said:


> All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.
> 
> Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.



I have never been on a takeuchi. I pulled up the specs and they look like a pretty good machine, but the hydraulics dont match the ASV. It looked like it didnt have a vertical path boom, which probably wouldnt matter mulching.

I dont know about the gehls either. I have a good friend that bought a new 7810 (rubber tired) machine. It was a junk. It had about 200 hours on it and gehl bought it back and he got another one. Still a junker. I ran it and it is a strong machine. Probably the strongest one ive been on with tires, but it wound not stay together. All gehls may not be like this though.


----------



## joesawer

Samson09 said:


> All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.
> 
> Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.



I have run one with with a mulcher head on it.
In hot weather and dusty conditions it would over heat pretty fast. But it cooled off fast also.
Keeping the radiator clean helps a lot but the constant load is just more than the cooling system was designed to carry.
Over all I like it better than the Cat and ASV machines it is much more simple and rugged.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader*



komatsuvarna said:


> It would probably work good as long as your on half way flat ground, and not working around any bigger trees. I have 2 wheel loaders(komatsu WA 150 and kawasaki 60) and there is no way that they would hang on were the compact track loaders go.



Thanks for the adivce Komatsuvarna. 

You own some pretty big loaders there, Schaffer Loaders biggest is the 6 tonne 9330Z series. If a company owned a few mulching heads like STIHLTHEDEERE could you see the possibility of running a mulcher on the Schaffer obviously not for the steepest terrain as a tracked machine will as you say go up steeper terrain. 
In Australia the skids mulching often seem to have cooling issues - it is hard work however. Also the Schaffer has 35km/hr travel speed between jobs and you would think this could be a big benefit? 
Most of our inquiries are the same as what is discussed here - the cost of undercarriage and track maintenance makes it hard to make a decent living when repair and downtime is so high. With a wheeled machine you esape a lot of this. 

Cheeers, 
Cam :greenchainsaw:


----------



## komatsuvarna

SchafferLoaders said:


> Thanks for the adivce Komatsuvarna.
> 
> You own some pretty big loaders there, Schaffer Loaders biggest is the 6 tonne 9330Z series. If a company owned a few mulching heads like STIHLTHEDEERE could you see the possibility of running a mulcher on the Schaffer obviously not for the steepest terrain as a tracked machine will as you say go up steeper terrain.
> In Australia the skids mulching often seem to have cooling issues - it is hard work however. Also the Schaffer has 35km/hr travel speed between jobs and you would think this could be a big benefit?
> Most of our inquiries are the same as what is discussed here - the cost of undercarriage and track maintenance makes it hard to make a decent living when repair and downtime is so high. With a wheeled machine you esape a lot of this.
> 
> Cheeers,
> Cam :greenchainsaw:




I Dont know what the terrain is like in Australia, so I may not be much help. Here in East TN it is mostly rolling hills, and its hard to find a half way flat spot. Most of the mulching that is done in my area is on rough, steep ground, to rough for a tractor to keep bushhoged. Thats usually the reason its ''growed up'' in the first place.The only wheel loaders in my area are in the rock quarrys, or on a pipe laying crew, were the terrain is good. I use mine to load/unload pipe, man holes, Water valves or any other parts, and it stays on the yard, were its flat.

Honestly, I cant see running a mulcher on a wheel loader in my area. If it was flatter ground, then yes. Id want the tires foam filled to keep down on flats, and it would help keep the center of gravity down.

I will say that i dont run a mulcher for a living. I lay under ground utilities and i rent mulchers when i need to clear a right of way to lay some pipe. I usually work in such tight areas that I wouldnt be able to keep the mirrows and lights on a wheel loader if it was flat enough to use it.

Im sure its like everthing else, It'll have its place.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader*

Thanks for the advice Komatsuvarna


----------



## catbuster

Samson09 said:


> All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.
> 
> Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.



I know there's one guy on LawnSite that bought a new Tak 250 to replace his RC100. I think you re on LS (?)I'm not sure. 

Schaffer, There's no way your loader will go where a CTL will go. However, there are a bucnh of guys that would run it around here, where a loader could do the work. I have to admit tho, Bob ray pretty musch has a buch of mulching tied up here. He has a a 963C set up for mulching, and a couple of Bobcat CTLs. that shows you how opular tracked machines are for muclching. They are simply tougher, and more reliable


----------



## QwikDraw

I replaced my ASV with a Takeuchi TL250 for mulching. It is ten times the machine in rough terrain and mud. The front idelers are big which allows it to climb over rocks/logs that would stop other CTLs. The ASV cut better due to the higher PSI. I may try cranking the pumps up a few hundred psi and see what happens. Takeuchi does have a extra cooling package which includes a hydraulic cooler and reversing fan. I had a lexan door installed at the factory and larger sized hydraulic couplers (like the ASV).

I have heard that the new Bobcat will NOT be over 100 hp...someting about emissions and a motor compartment that is too small for the extra equipment to make it compliant....don't know if that's true but it sounded right when I heard it?????

Whatever you decide on it will break. I am looking at a dedicated unit for higher productivity and durability.

I also own daewoo 175 excavator with a Denis Cimaf and that setup has been bullet proof. Never any heating issues, tough steel tracks and much lower cost to run then a skid steer. It can mulch 12-14 inch hardwood and navigate terrain the CTL can't, trim branches to 25 feet and mow around rock walls, steep banks and pond edges. It is slightly slower in wide open small diameter material but over all it makes more money for me then my skid steer.

Good luck.


----------



## komatsuvarna

QwikDraw said:


> I replaced my ASV with a Takeuchi TL250 for mulching. It is ten times the machine in rough terrain and mud. The front idelers are big which allows it to climb over rocks/logs that would stop other CTLs. The ASV cut better due to the higher PSI. I may try cranking the pumps up a few hundred psi and see what happens. Takeuchi does have a extra cooling package which includes a hydraulic cooler and reversing fan. I had a lexan door installed at the factory and larger sized hydraulic couplers (like the ASV).
> 
> I have heard that the new Bobcat will NOT be over 100 hp...someting about emissions and a motor compartment that is too small for the extra equipment to make it compliant....don't know if that's true but it sounded right when I heard it?????
> 
> Whatever you decide on it will break. I am looking at a dedicated unit for higher productivity and durability.
> 
> I also own daewoo 175 excavator with a Denis Cimaf and that setup has been bullet proof. Never any heating issues, tough steel tracks and much lower cost to run then a skid steer. It can mulch 12-14 inch hardwood and navigate terrain the CTL can't, trim branches to 25 feet and mow around rock walls, steep banks and pond edges. It is slightly slower in wide open small diameter material but over all it makes more money for me then my skid steer.
> 
> Good luck.



Hey, I checked out the pictures on your site. Nice work. That Denis Cimaf sure looks like it does a job. If I ever invested in a mulching head, It would be one like that for my pc-228.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader*



catbuster said:


> I know there's one guy on LawnSite that bought a new Tak 250 to replace his RC100. I think you re on LS (?)I'm not sure.
> 
> Schaffer, There's no way your loader will go where a CTL will go. However, there are a bucnh of guys that would run it around here, where a loader could do the work. I have to admit tho, Bob ray pretty musch has a buch of mulching tied up here. He has a a 963C set up for mulching, and a couple of Bobcat CTLs. that shows you how opular tracked machines are for muclching. They are simply tougher, and more reliable



*Thanks for your comments Catbuster*, I'm not inferring a wheeled loader will go the same places as a tracked machine, I'm just suggesting this as an option and appreciate your feedback. 

I just want to put it out there as the maintenance costs of wheeled machines in general are far less than a tracked machine, supposedly operating a bulldozer up to 80% of your running costs are undercarriage and track maintenance, I would guess to a lesser extent a tracked skid steer would incur the same costs. 

As far as I know a wheeled loader, built from scratch for mulching with 130hp high flow in a 6 tonne package (there are some with this hp, but you are looking at a 10 tonne machine) is not available in any other brand on the market worldwide (somehow I think everyone is going to jump on Google and prove me wrong here!). 

I guess I've always seen the Schaffer 130hp high flow as an alternative also as non-dedicated skid steers are generally limited at around 100hp and Schaffer are offering 130hp in their unit. I think everyone agrees that there's no substitute for hp when it comes to running high flow tools! Feedback in Australia with skid steers in mulching is that they run far too hot as the cooling isn't adequate (but its pretty hot here anyway!).

Schaffer wish to put out the high flow unit as an all purpose machine but built for high flow applications. It would be considered a mulching option for less steep terrain and would cost significantly less to operate and maintain than a tracked loader. Also with 35km/hr road speed you could drive to the job or just around larger job sites quickly. 
You can still use it as a bucket loader, pallet fork work with up to 3 tonnes capacity, log grapple, greenwaste grab, auger etc...something that is all purpose as well, the same a skid steer. 

It would be great to get any more feedback! 

cheers guys.


----------



## Samson09

QwikDraw said:


> I replaced my ASV with a Takeuchi TL250 for mulching. It is ten times the machine in rough terrain and mud. The front idelers are big which allows it to climb over rocks/logs that would stop other CTLs. The ASV cut better due to the higher PSI. I may try cranking the pumps up a few hundred psi and see what happens. Takeuchi does have a extra cooling package which includes a hydraulic cooler and reversing fan. I had a lexan door installed at the factory and larger sized hydraulic couplers (like the ASV).
> 
> Thanks for the feedback- your definitely the guy I need to hear from- I have actually adjusted my final 2 choices to the Terex (ASV) PT-100 Forestry Model and the Takeuchi TL250 based on our application and needs- Since you have both, your the expert.- I addition to the mulching we grade and excavate a lot of dirt dirt which I beleive the Tak will do most excellently...the PT-100 seems excellent but all the negative feedback regarding the undercarriage/track maintenance costs got me nervous towards that machine.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

Nice pics Quickdraw! :rockn:


----------



## SchafferLoaders

Samson09 said:


> QwikDraw said:
> 
> 
> 
> I replaced my ASV with a Takeuchi TL250 for mulching. It is ten times the machine in rough terrain and mud. The front idelers are big which allows it to climb over rocks/logs that would stop other CTLs. The ASV cut better due to the higher PSI. I may try cranking the pumps up a few hundred psi and see what happens. Takeuchi does have a extra cooling package which includes a hydraulic cooler and reversing fan. I had a lexan door installed at the factory and larger sized hydraulic couplers (like the ASV).
> 
> Thanks for the feedback- your definitely the guy I need to hear from- I have actually adjusted my final 2 choices to the Terex (ASV) PT-100 Forestry Model and the Takeuchi TL250 based on our application and needs- Since you have both, your the expert.- I addition to the mulching we grade and excavate a lot of dirt dirt which I beleive the Tak will do most excellently...the PT-100 seems excellent but all the negative feedback regarding the undercarriage/track maintenance costs got me nervous towards that machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Samson,
> 
> In Australia some customers have told me what you are working out here. If you want a nice ride - then posi is the only choice, but for toughness then the taki is the way to go?
> I guess they both have their good sides, personally an articulated wheel loader is my choiceumpkin2:
Click to expand...


----------



## QwikDraw

For me the ride isn't that different and I think the Takie with the stiffer tracks rides better over small rock/slash. I spent over 20k on the ASV in a little over 2 years on breakdowns not including many half days lost. I did blow the engine due to a poor mount design that was warrantied after I put the story out on another forum ($10,000) It dam near took all my profit to keep it running. ASV does have someting new coming out and after talking to the sales rep it does seem thay are putting in a big effort to improve. I don't know if I'd buy another but if it's a great machine I might.

I really like the idea of the Schaffer 130 hp loader, maybe if it were wider/lower for stabilitly it would be perfect. Add some chains to the tires and off you go. I looked hard customizing a Takeuchi loader (Atlas loader) to use mowing ROW where the material is smallish (2-3 inch) for most. One of the biggest problems would be skid plates and side protection...some sort of cage. When you are mowing the edges of the ROW you are always busting through branches from the mature edge trees. Put a dual spindle rotary in the 8 foot wide range and it's a winning combo for what I do. Alot of my ROW is in busy areas and I don't what to buy a Hydro Ax...just to big for transport and getting in some areas. 

One bit of concern is the mulching enviornment is ROUGH as is any forestry work...the Schaffer needs to be overbilt to survive in this line of work an average loader in the woods would die a quick death.

I'd like to test one of those Schaffer loader...why don't you send one over


----------



## redprospector

komatsuvarna said:


> Plus I wouldn't want a machine with plastic undercarriage parts.



Actually the plastic wheels on the ASV undercarrage hold up pretty well. It's the rubber tires on them that seem to come apart easily. I replaced the front & rear idlers, and some of the bogie wheels on mine not long ago and not one of the plastic wheels were damaged. The rubber was pretty eat up on all that I replaced though.
I know how you feel though. I felt the same way when they started using plastic on chainsaw's. 
The fact that the plastic wheels aren't the weak link dosen't change the fact that they want *way too :censored: much* for their parts, and that I will be replacing the ASV with another brand, when the time comes.

Andy


----------



## komatsuvarna

redprospector said:


> Actually the plastic wheels on the ASV undercarrage hold up pretty well. It's the rubber tires on them that seem to come apart easily. I replaced the front & rear idlers, and some of the bogie wheels on mine not long ago and not one of the plastic wheels were damaged. The rubber was pretty eat up on all that I replaced though.
> I know how you feel though. I felt the same way when they started using plastic on chainsaw's.
> The fact that the plastic wheels aren't the weak link dosen't change the fact that they want *way too :censored: much* for their parts, and that I will be replacing the ASV with another brand, when the time comes.
> 
> Andy



I guess its more of the thought of the plastic parts being on the undercarriage. I dont know if its true or not, but I was told that the undercarriage system was copied from some kind of snow blower/plow/ pusher, or something that had to do with removing snow. That may be why the parts is so high, I dont really know though.


----------



## QwikDraw

The original design was Polaris....as in the snowmobile company. I still see a few around here, they are the same as the ASV RC30. ASV purchased the design and made the bigger units.

I think that's right.


----------



## komatsuvarna

QuikDraw, I seen that your daewoo has 3 lines plumbed to the mulcher, Were as my komatsu's has only 2. Is one of them a greaser or some sort, Or does it take 3 to run the mulcher?


----------



## QwikDraw

You need a pressure line, a return line and a case drain. The case drain just goes straight back to the tank.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader*



QwikDraw said:


> For me the ride isn't that different and I think the Takie with the stiffer tracks rides better over small rock/slash. I spent over 20k on the ASV in a little over 2 years on breakdowns not including many half days lost. I did blow the engine due to a poor mount design that was warrantied after I put the story out on another forum ($10,000) It dam near took all my profit to keep it running. ASV does have someting new coming out and after talking to the sales rep it does seem thay are putting in a big effort to improve. I don't know if I'd buy another but if it's a great machine I might.
> 
> I really like the idea of the Schaffer 130 hp loader, maybe if it were wider/lower for stabilitly it would be perfect. Add some chains to the tires and off you go. I looked hard customizing a Takeuchi loader (Atlas loader) to use mowing ROW where the material is smallish (2-3 inch) for most. One of the biggest problems would be skid plates and side protection...some sort of cage. When you are mowing the edges of the ROW you are always busting through branches from the mature edge trees. Put a dual spindle rotary in the 8 foot wide range and it's a winning combo for what I do. Alot of my ROW is in busy areas and I don't what to buy a Hydro Ax...just to big for transport and getting in some areas.
> 
> One bit of concern is the mulching enviornment is ROUGH as is any forestry work...the Schaffer needs to be overbilt to survive in this line of work an average loader in the woods would die a quick death.
> 
> I'd like to test one of those Schaffer loader...why don't you send one over




Hi Quickdraw, 

Thanks for your comments, I wish I could send one over. It does remind me of some customers who ask to trial a Schaffer for 6 months. opcorn:
The Schaffer 9330Z is around 2080mm wide, with 550x45-22.5 tyres. 

This picture I hope shows the front end of the Schaffer - Germany really overbuild everything, part of the reason they cost a bit more than other wheel loaders. 
View attachment 137743

Schaffer tell me their loaders aren't overbuilt, just "built to spec" but if you put one up against any Japanese machine you will see a huge difference. Japanese machines in general have a lot lighter componetry as they are built for the local market which is seasonal snow removal. Generally masts are made of 15mm plate and not crossed braced as much. I just came back from Japan and every petrol or "gas" station in the mountains has a small wheel loader to do a quick tidy up in the streets after snowing. 

The Schaffer 9330Z mast is all made of 30mm plate, pins are a minimum of 50mm, with 5mm bushes and oscillating bearings to take out any twist. The mast is also crossed braced with massive pipe sections in a few areas giving even greater strength. 
In Australia we've put machines in areas that are very harsh on machines. 

An example of this is this pdf with a much smaller 3150 wheel loader going into a smelter. They orginally owned another wheel loader brand and twisted the mast after a month, so decided to fabricate their own mast in 20mm plate - thicker than their previous mast. This made the mast a lot stronger but transferred the stress back onto the samson posts which then started to crack, just showing if the machine isn't built heavy duty from scratch if you reinforce one point it transfers to another point. 
When it came to building their Schaffer Loader the customer asked for our "heavy duty option". I explained that our standard mast was made of 30mm plate and so are the samson posts so its survived in that environment well.

I definitely agree mulching is a very hard environment as well. 


These pictures show how much weight is out past the rear axle and down low, I think if any loader is stable, a Schaffer loader is! Many loaders are built on a different principle and are much higher as the operator is sitting high up above the engine, the Schaffer Wheel Loaders generally have the engine out the back added to the counterweight. 

One picture is of the former model, the 9100Z. 

View attachment 137741


View attachment 137742


Did I put this link up to a Schaffer telehandler doing some forestry work? 

This clip, although just 16 seconds long, is my favourite video showing an all purpose machine. 
Cheers, 

Cameron Moir


----------



## Samson09

QwikDraw said:


> I replaced my ASV with a Takeuchi TL250 for mulching. It is ten times the machine in rough terrain and mud. The front idelers are big which allows it to climb over rocks/logs that would stop other CTLs. The ASV cut better due to the higher PSI. I may try cranking the pumps up a few hundred psi and see what happens. Takeuchi does have a extra cooling package which includes a hydraulic cooler and reversing fan. I had a lexan door installed at the factory and larger sized hydraulic couplers (like the ASV).
> 
> quik- is your TL250 running hot without the extra optional ambient colling package? I was quoted an additional $9200 to add that package.


----------



## QwikDraw

It hasn't yet but our hottest day has been only 75-80. 

The only negative thing I can say is the Takeuchi has less power to the head then the ASV. I am going to turn up the pumps a bit, I think 3400 psi is as high as you can go safely, at least that's what I have been told.


----------



## komatsuvarna

I dont know much about them, but kubota is making a ctl. 75 and 90 hp version. Just seen it yesterday in a magazine. I dont think a cab version will be out until 2011 though.


----------



## catbuster

SchafferLoaders said:


> I just want to put it out there as the maintenance costs of wheeled machines in general are far less than a tracked machine, supposedly operating a bulldozer up to 80% of your running costs are undercarriage and track maintenance, I would guess to a lesser extent a tracked skid steer would incur the same costs.
> 
> As far as I know a wheeled loader, built from scratch for mulching with 130hp high flow in a 6 tonne package (there are some with this hp, but you are looking at a 10 tonne machine) is not available in any other brand on the market worldwide (somehow I think everyone is going to jump on Google and prove me wrong here!).
> 
> I guess I've always seen the Schaffer 130hp high flow as an alternative also as non-dedicated skid steers are generally limited at around 100hp and Schaffer are offering 130hp in their unit. I think everyone agrees that there's no substitute for hp when it comes to running high flow tools! Feedback in Australia with skid steers in mulching is that they run far too hot as the cooling isn't adequate (but its pretty hot here anyway!).
> 
> Schaffer wish to put out the high flow unit as an all purpose machine but built for high flow applications. It would be considered a mulching option for less steep terrain and would cost significantly less to operate and maintain than a tracked loader. Also with 35km/hr road speed you could drive to the job or just around larger job sites quickly.
> You can still use it as a bucket loader, pallet fork work with up to 3 tonnes capacity, log grapple, greenwaste grab, auger etc...something that is all purpose as well, the same a skid steer.
> 
> It would be great to get any more feedback!
> 
> cheers guys.


 

First, it's about 60 percent. It also depends on the type of machine. Track loaders, though i hate to admit it, are pretty close to excavators when it comes to maintence. Worse than a dozer. 

Second, it would work extremely well for tree contactors, not loggers, but tree contractors. You could chunk larger logs out in 1 piece, and grind a stump with the same machine

An all purpose artic unit will never happen. The clossest to an all pupropse machine IS a track loader. Wheeled machines will not be as good for digging, pushing, mulching etc. 

As far as ground speed, I'm all for it. But if your doing 20 or so and hit a runt, youre gonna bounce hard. I've cleared enough to know that newly cleared land isn't flat.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader*



catbuster said:


> First, it's about 60 percent. It also depends on the type of machine. Track loaders, though i hate to admit it, are pretty close to excavators when it comes to maintence. Worse than a dozer.
> 
> Second, it would work extremely well for tree contactors, not loggers, but tree contractors. You could chunk larger logs out in 1 piece, and grind a stump with the same machine
> 
> An all purpose artic unit will never happen. The clossest to an all pupropse machine IS a track loader. Wheeled machines will not be as good for digging, pushing, mulching etc.
> 
> As far as ground speed, I'm all for it. But if your doing 20 or so and hit a runt, youre gonna bounce hard. I've cleared enough to know that newly cleared land isn't flat.




Thanks again Catbuster for the advice. 
As an "all purpose machine" I didn't mean replacing a tracked machine (for steep slopes or harsh digging), more as a yard machine, loading, pick and carry for up to 3 tonne, using a grapple for logs, augering, 2.0 cu mulch bucket etc...
Sounds like a good idea with the stump grinder on it. 
I agree with you in regards to speed! You can only use the fully 35km/hr or even 15 km/hr if you are on something very flat and that's usually just bitumen! 

Samson - that extra cooling package quoted at $9200 is some serious money for an upgrade! 

cheers, 

Cam


----------



## komatsuvarna

catbuster said:


> First, it's about 60 percent. It also depends on the type of machine. Track loaders, though i hate to admit it, are pretty close to excavators when it comes to maintence. Worse than a dozer.



How do you figure that track maintence on excavators is worse than a dozer? A dozer is constantly using its tracks. A excavator travels alot less and with little to no load on them,other than the machine weight. Ive had excavators with 5000 hours on them(have one right now) and ive never had to do anything with track maintence on them. I also have a D-39 dozer with 2500 hours on it that just got new sprockets and pins.


----------



## catbuster

komatsuvarna said:


> How do you figure that track maintence on excavators is worse than a dozer? A dozer is constantly using its tracks. A excavator travels alot less and with little to no load on them,other than the machine weight. Ive had excavators with 5000 hours on them(have one right now) and ive never had to do anything with track maintence on them. I also have a D-39 dozer with 2500 hours on it that just got new sprockets and pins.



True. But I was talking about maintnenence over all.


----------



## catbuster

SchafferLoaders said:


> Thanks again Catbuster for the advice.
> As an "all purpose machine" I didn't mean replacing a tracked machine (for steep slopes or harsh digging), more as a yard machine, loading, pick and carry for up to 3 tonne, using a grapple for logs, augering, 2.0 cu mulch bucket etc...
> Sounds like a good idea with the stump grinder on it.
> I agree with you in regards to speed! You can only use the fully 35km/hr or even 15 km/hr if you are on something very flat and that's usually just bitumen!
> 
> Samson - that extra cooling package quoted at $9200 is some serious money for an upgrade!
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Cam



If i were to market this machine, I would market it to tree contractors. Perod. No tree contractors I know, myself included, like the compact wheel loaders. Not even Volvos. Why? Because even with the big lift cap, they don't have to ability to run a stumper. Your machine could do that.


----------



## SchafferLoaders

*Schaffer wheel loader 9330Z with mulching head*



catbuster said:


> If i were to market this machine, I would market it to tree contractors. Perod. No tree contractors I know, myself included, like the compact wheel loaders. Not even Volvos. Why? Because even with the big lift cap, they don't have to ability to run a stumper. Your machine could do that.



Thanks for the tip Catbuster, its good advice! 

Cheers, 

Cam


----------



## joesawer

redprospector said:


> Actually the plastic wheels on the ASV undercarrage hold up pretty well. It's the rubber tires on them that seem to come apart easily. I replaced the front & rear idlers, and some of the bogie wheels on mine not long ago and not one of the plastic wheels were damaged. The rubber was pretty eat up on all that I replaced though.
> I know how you feel though. I felt the same way when they started using plastic on chainsaw's.
> The fact that the plastic wheels aren't the weak link dosen't change the fact that they want *way too :censored: much* for their parts, and that I will be replacing the ASV with another brand, when the time comes.
> 
> Andy





There are some after market parts made from aluminum that don't have any rubber wheels on them that last much longer.


----------



## redprospector

joesawer said:


> There are some after market parts made from aluminum that don't have any rubber wheels on them that last much longer.



Yeah, they're made by Bair Products. If they work as good as the replacement track lugs I got from them, they'd be pretty good. 
I got a deal on the OEM wheels on ebay so I went with them. I hope they're still good when I decide to get another machine. If not I'll probably upgrade to the aluminum wheels.

Andy


----------



## joesawer

redprospector said:


> Yeah, they're made by Bair Products. If they work as good as the replacement track lugs I got from them, they'd be pretty good.
> I got a deal on the OEM wheels on ebay so I went with them. I hope they're still good when I decide to get another machine. If not I'll probably upgrade to the aluminum wheels.
> 
> Andy




Are you talking about the white plastic bolt on lugs? I have a friend who swears by the aluminum idlers. I have never used them. I got a belly full of ASV systems several years ago.


----------



## redprospector

joesawer said:


> Are you talking about the white plastic bolt on lugs? I have a friend who swears by the aluminum idlers. I have never used them. I got a belly full of ASV systems several years ago.



That's the one's, they call them "Larry Lugs" for some reason unknown to me. 

I tried them out on a track I bought used. It had 26 drive lugs ripped off of it, and I got it real cheap.  
The lug's are pretty pricy, with quantity price breaks for 20 or 30 of them they're about $18 a pop. So you want to use them on a track that still has plenty of tread left. But they work good and are tough, and will resurect an otherwise junk track.
My belly's getting full of the ASV systems pretty quick. I've just got to get to the point that I can do something about it.

Andy


----------



## joesawer

redprospector said:


> That's the one's, they call them "Larry Lugs" for some reason unknown to me.
> 
> I tried them out on a track I bought used. It had 26 drive lugs ripped off of it, and I got it real cheap.
> The lug's are pretty pricy, with quantity price breaks for 20 or 30 of them they're about $18 a pop. So you want to use them on a track that still has plenty of tread left. But they work good and are tough, and will resurect an otherwise junk track.
> My belly's getting full of the ASV systems pretty quick. I've just got to get to the point that I can do something about it.
> 
> Andy





Yeah with the margins as tight as they are these days I understand that. The ASV is not all bad it stays on top of the ground good!


----------



## redprospector

joesawer said:


> Yeah with the margins as tight as they are these days I understand that. The ASV is not all bad it stays on top of the ground good!



Hahaha. Yeah, when it's not broke I like mine fine.

Andy


----------



## Samson09

*C Series Cat Machines in the Forest*

All- just to switch pitch for a second...anyone got experience with the 279,289,299 C series Cat track skids in forest applications?
I know they have a new track/undercarriage system (non ASV) but I believe their high flow is only 33gpm which is one of the lowest if I am not mistaken. I know they are real comfortable but just wondering how they perform in the forest. Please advise...


----------



## redprospector

Samson09 said:


> All- just to switch pitch for a second...anyone got experience with the 279,289,299 C series Cat track skids in forest applications?
> I know they have a new track/undercarriage system (non ASV) but I believe their high flow is only 33gpm which is one of the lowest if I am not mistaken. I know they are real comfortable but just wondering how they perform in the forest. Please advise...



KKottermann burned one up recently.
Here's the thread. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=135487

Andy


----------



## mulcher man

*Fecon?*

Everyone here has offered valuable advice and I can't think of a better source to get real feedback. Have any of you considered the Fecon FTX100L? It is in the same size class as the ASV, and the TAK and Bobcat but it has the steel track undercarriage, puts out very good flow, operates at 5500 psi (which blows the others away!) and is a purpose duty built forestry machine that will hold up to the incredibly tough environment of every day mulching. It also does not overheat because the cooling cpacity is so much larger that they use for the mini track loaders or skid steers. They are running in the heat of AZ and at elevation in Colorado with no overheating whatsoever.
Additionally, especially in Colorado, the Fecon Bull Hog head is by fay the most durable mulcher of any maker. Fecon makes the ASV head, the Bobcat head, and the John Deere head, but only the red Fecon "Bull Hog" has the unmatched durability to stand up better than any other design. Also because you can choose from 4 different tooling options (double carbide, single carbide, stone tools, or chipper knives) you can tailor the tools to your application. Also, if you are mulching any more than brush, get the variable displacement hydraulic motor option. The productivity increase is well worth the minimal additional cost.
The FTX100L can take skid steer attachments so it has the versatility of a CTL but its main design is for mulching. It does not dump a bucket very well but other attachments operate great. What I tell people is that if more than 40% of their work is mulching then there is no better machine in this class than the FTX100L. If less than 40% of your work is mulching then a CTL may hold up and it might not be justifiable to spend the extra $ for an FTX100L.
Yes, I work for Fecon. I am very proud to say so. I truely believe we offer the best machine in this class both for dependability and productivity. I will put the FTX100L up against any CTL, skid steer, or other comparable hp machine and show you the differences first hand. I live and breath mulchers every day and I have not found a machine that compares.
If you want to take the next step up, look at the Fecon FTX148L. Look up the feedback on this site from people who have bought them. The FTX148L is an incredible machine.
I don't reply on this site just to spew Fecon mantra. I truely know that it is the best machine for the job and I am willing to prove it to any doubters. If you wish to know for certain, first hand, get in touch with me and I'll show you. :jawdrop:


----------



## catbuster

mulcher man said:


> Everyone here has offered valuable advice and I can't think of a better source to get real feedback. Have any of you considered the Fecon FTX100L? It is in the same size class as the ASV, and the TAK and Bobcat but it has the steel track undercarriage, puts out very good flow, operates at 5500 psi (which blows the others away!) and is a purpose duty built forestry machine that will hold up to the incredibly tough environment of every day mulching. It also does not overheat because the cooling cpacity is so much larger that they use for the mini track loaders or skid steers. They are running in the heat of AZ and at elevation in Colorado with no overheating whatsoever.
> Additionally, especially in Colorado, the Fecon Bull Hog head is by fay the most durable mulcher of any maker. Fecon makes the ASV head, the Bobcat head, and the John Deere head, but only the red Fecon "Bull Hog" has the unmatched durability to stand up better than any other design. Also because you can choose from 4 different tooling options (double carbide, single carbide, stone tools, or chipper knives) you can tailor the tools to your application. Also, if you are mulching any more than brush, get the variable displacement hydraulic motor option. The productivity increase is well worth the minimal additional cost.
> The FTX100L can take skid steer attachments so it has the versatility of a CTL but its main design is for mulching. It does not dump a bucket very well but other attachments operate great. What I tell people is that if more than 40% of their work is mulching then there is no better machine in this class than the FTX100L. If less than 40% of your work is mulching then a CTL may hold up and it might not be justifiable to spend the extra $ for an FTX100L.
> Yes, I work for Fecon. I am very proud to say so. I truely believe we offer the best machine in this class both for dependability and productivity. I will put the FTX100L up against any CTL, skid steer, or other comparable hp machine and show you the differences first hand. I live and breath mulchers every day and I have not found a machine that compares.
> If you want to take the next step up, look at the Fecon FTX148L. Look up the feedback on this site from people who have bought them. The FTX148L is an incredible machine.
> I don't reply on this site just to spew Fecon mantra. I truely know that it is the best machine for the job and I am willing to prove it to any doubters. If you wish to know for certain, first hand, get in touch with me and I'll show you. :jawdrop:



Ahhh. The Fecon POSs. I wouldn't buy one. Shure, it's great, but you have to keep it running.


----------



## redprospector

catbuster said:


> Ahhh. The Fecon POSs. I wouldn't buy one. Shure, it's great, but you have to keep it running.



Gotta keep anything running. It couldn't cost much more than an ASV. 
I've seen (briefly) an FTX90 working, pretty slick little ride and I like the steel tracks. I'd like to spend a little time on one of the 100's if I ever get dug out of the hole I'm in now.

Andy


----------



## Samson09

mulcher man said:


> Everyone here has offered valuable advice and I can't think of a better source to get real feedback. Have any of you considered the Fecon FTX100L? It is in the same size class as the ASV, and the TAK and Bobcat but it has the steel track undercarriage, puts out very good flow, operates at 5500 psi (which blows the others away!) and is a purpose duty built forestry machine that will hold up to the incredibly tough environment of every day mulching. It also does not overheat because the cooling cpacity is so much larger that they use for the mini track loaders or skid steers. They are running in the heat of AZ and at elevation in Colorado with no overheating whatsoever.
> Additionally, especially in Colorado, the Fecon Bull Hog head is by fay the most durable mulcher of any maker. Fecon makes the ASV head, the Bobcat head, and the John Deere head, but only the red Fecon "Bull Hog" has the unmatched durability to stand up better than any other design. Also because you can choose from 4 different tooling options (double carbide, single carbide, stone tools, or chipper knives) you can tailor the tools to your application. Also, if you are mulching any more than brush, get the variable displacement hydraulic motor option. The productivity increase is well worth the minimal additional cost.
> The FTX100L can take skid steer attachments so it has the versatility of a CTL but its main design is for mulching. It does not dump a bucket very well but other attachments operate great. What I tell people is that if more than 40% of their work is mulching then there is no better machine in this class than the FTX100L. If less than 40% of your work is mulching then a CTL may hold up and it might not be justifiable to spend the extra $ for an FTX100L.
> Yes, I work for Fecon. I am very proud to say so. I truely believe we offer the best machine in this class both for dependability and productivity. I will put the FTX100L up against any CTL, skid steer, or other comparable hp machine and show you the differences first hand. I live and breath mulchers every day and I have not found a machine that compares.
> If you want to take the next step up, look at the Fecon FTX148L. Look up the feedback on this site from people who have bought them. The FTX148L is an incredible machine.
> I don't reply on this site just to spew Fecon mantra. I truely know that it is the best machine for the job and I am willing to prove it to any doubters. If you wish to know for certain, first hand, get in touch with me and I'll show you. :jawdrop:



Hey appreciate the info...unfamiliar w/them...will have to check into them. Thanks.


----------



## mulcher man

*Fecon*

The FTX90s were good machines. The Deutz engines may not have been the best choice at the time but other than that they were great. The FTX100L is a completely different machine. It is powered by a Kubota engine and has been very reliable. There are other significant improvements over the ftx90 including 38% greater cooling capacity and the variable displacement hydraulic motor in the mulcher. Everyone I know that has an FTX100L likes it a lot! The steel tracks are so much better in the mulching environment than rubber that needs continual maintenance and replacement. The higher psi (5500) makes the mulcher really perform above its hp class. It is a comfortable and roomy cab.
I won't keep pushing but for anyone who runs or needs a machine in this hp class it is definately worth your time to have a demonstration and talk to some current FTX100L owners (probably outside of your territory). No Disappointments!


----------



## joesawer

mulcher man said:


> The FTX90s were good machines. The Deutz engines may not have been the best choice at the time but other than that they were great. The FTX100L is a completely different machine. It is powered by a Kubota engine and has been very reliable. There are other significant improvements over the ftx90 including 38% greater cooling capacity and the variable displacement hydraulic motor in the mulcher. Everyone I know that has an FTX100L likes it a lot! The steel tracks are so much better in the mulching environment than rubber that needs continual maintenance and replacement. The higher psi (5500) makes the mulcher really perform above its hp class. It is a comfortable and roomy cab.
> I won't keep pushing but for anyone who runs or needs a machine in this hp class it is definately worth your time to have a demonstration and talk to some current FTX100L owners (probably outside of your territory). No Disappointments!





They are not as bullet proof as you imply. What about the final drive? Hmmm about the size of a pencil.
The track system is much better than rubber no doubt.
Did you guys put better bolts on the machines yet. Those cheap chinese bolts on the outside of the machine where so soft they got all smeared and distorted and where a maintenance nightmare.
A real forestry machine has good bolts and they are protected by design. If you don't believe me go look at any modern skidder or feller buncher.
The cooling claim is reckless at best. The DG dust and vegetation fiber in the southwest will prevent your claims on any cooling system.
I do like the Fecon head but wish it had swing hammers with with replaceable pins and bushings.
Over all the tractor is very light duty and kind of cheesy when compared to major brand tracked tractors.


----------



## mulcher man

*Fecon*

Joe,

There are an awful lot of FTX100s out there and I am not aware of any final drive issues. Are you sure you have the right tractor in mind? I even checked our warranty claim records and there are no indications of any final drive issues with the FTX100L.
The FTX140s did have a final drive update and we campaigned that at no cost to the customer. Maybe that is the machine you are referring to.
As far as the cooling I would accept your challenge to perform anywhere in the US you choose, against any compareable hp machine with either the FTX100L or the FTX148L at any ambient temperature, climate or elevation.
Of course you have to do your regular maintenance and clean the coolers if they become clogged but you know that is standard practice in the mulching world.
Also, to what major brand Tractor do you refer? I believe Fecon has the largest market share of purpose duty built tracked forestry mulchers out there. If you are a person who uses a mulcher to make a living Joe I would like to come and visit you and your environment. I am very familiar with So Cal. I lived there for many years and operated a mulch, compost yard. I know your environmnet and I would be happy to try and change your opinion about the tractors. I have no doubt that I can.
Well Joe, can I get an invitation to put my tractor where my mouth is?


----------



## joesawer

mulcher man said:


> Joe,
> 
> There are an awful lot of FTX100s out there and I am not aware of any final drive issues. Are you sure you have the right tractor in mind? I even checked our warranty claim records and there are no indications of any final drive issues with the FTX100L.
> The FTX140s did have a final drive update and we campaigned that at no cost to the customer. Maybe that is the machine you are referring to.
> As far as the cooling I would accept your challenge to perform anywhere in the US you choose, against any compareable hp machine with either the FTX100L or the FTX148L at any ambient temperature, climate or elevation.
> Of course you have to do your regular maintenance and clean the coolers if they become clogged but you know that is standard practice in the mulching world.
> Also, to what major brand Tractor do you refer? I believe Fecon has the largest market share of purpose duty built tracked forestry mulchers out there. If you are a person who uses a mulcher to make a living Joe I would like to come and visit you and your environment. I am very familiar with So Cal. I lived there for many years and operated a mulch, compost yard. I know your environmnet and I would be happy to try and change your opinion about the tractors. I have no doubt that I can.
> Well Joe, can I get an invitation to put my tractor where my mouth is?




So far I like the Barko best in rubber tire and a D-5 or 953 best on track machines depending on terrain and vegetation hight. A Timco is nice. I have not run one but have worked beside one and it was impressive.
I certainly know your machines are better masticators than rubber track skid steer loaders. 
Lol don't try to jerk my chain. No I don't need you to make a special trip to convince me. Just keep your machine on milder terrain or step it up. Believe me I will hear all about it if you make a real forestry machine. 
You don't have to worry about changing my opinion on the little Fecons. I have over 1000 hrs on an 140 and have operated several others.
The best part of the machine is the head. Even it needs the bolt situation upgraded to what is standard on other industrial machines. Also what other machine manufacture makes cylinder pins with out grease fittings?


----------



## Cat330

QwikDraw said:


> I replaced my ASV with a Takeuchi TL250 for mulching. It is ten times the machine in rough terrain and mud. The front idelers are big which allows it to climb over rocks/logs that would stop other CTLs. The ASV cut better due to the higher PSI. I may try cranking the pumps up a few hundred psi and see what happens. Takeuchi does have a extra cooling package which includes a hydraulic cooler and reversing fan. I had a lexan door installed at the factory and larger sized hydraulic couplers (like the ASV).
> 
> I have heard that the new Bobcat will NOT be over 100 hp...someting about emissions and a motor compartment that is too small for the extra equipment to make it compliant....don't know if that's true but it sounded right when I heard it?????
> 
> Whatever you decide on it will break. I am looking at a dedicated unit for higher productivity and durability.
> 
> I also own daewoo 175 excavator with a Denis Cimaf and that setup has been bullet proof. Never any heating issues, tough steel tracks and much lower cost to run then a skid steer. It can mulch 12-14 inch hardwood and navigate terrain the CTL can't, trim branches to 25 feet and mow around rock walls, steep banks and pond edges. It is slightly slower in wide open small diameter material but over all it makes more money for me then my skid steer.
> 
> Good luck.


I am brand new to doing comments on forums so please take it easy!! but have gained much knowledge from reading your forum along with everyone else's. I am trying to research the cost of the hydraulic cooling fan package for a 2008 Takehuchi tl 150. Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks for all the wisdom!! 
Cheers!!


----------



## softdown

Cat330 said:


> I am brand new to doing comments on forums so please take it easy!! but have gained much knowledge from reading your forum along with everyone else's. I am trying to research the cost of the hydraulic cooling fan package for a 2008 Takehuchi tl 150. Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks for all the wisdom!!
> Cheers!!


Trying to revive a great thread here. And I think I seen an old $9500 price tag for the cooling fan package? Could be wrong.


----------



## catbuster

softdown said:


> Trying to revive a great thread here. And I think I seen an old $9500 price tag for the cooling fan package? Could be wrong.



Geez Louise, $9500? That’s... An _expensive_ option. You could by a PJ trailer for that much money. I like certain parts of Takeuchi machines (mostly the door and the size of the cab), but you can get Cat’s whole forestry package for that much money. Their auxiliary hydraulics are still outperformed by Cat, Bobcat and ASV, and it’s not particularly close. That said, they have come a long way since 2010 when we were all first in this thread. Lots of things have changed in 10 years, especially in the skid steer world.

As things stand right now, as an all-round skid steer, I like my Cat machines (289/299) pretty well and they run a mulcher, the few times I’ve asked them to in recent years, fairly well. Cat’s forestry package works very well even if the backup alarm is kind of goofy.

What I don’t like is how big the back end is and how it affects visibility out the back, and the D series have a backup camera, but it’s hard to pick up when there’s a bright light coming in the front door. What having the back end up so high does, though, is give you a really good attack angle and clearance to hop up and over vertical faces. I had one on a job where we were replacing concrete pavement and it hopped in and out of 10-15” holes without scraping anything. Another contractor had a Deere 333 that wouldn’t do the same. Bobcat has kept their back ends small, and they still have good clearance on the back end. The ride isn’t near as good as the Cat, but they do seem to push better.

It’s also worth noting that I don’t run any small frame skid steers anymore. The large frame machines really aren’t that much larger like we were making them out to be when machines like the T320 and 297C were coming out and are so much more capable than machines like the Case 435 I ran back in the day. Definite culture change in the industry. There is still a place for them, but for the most part we (and I mean civil/site construction & forestry) run large frame CTLs and very few machines on rubber tires or that are small. Even my Case 465, which was a beast of its time, lives most of its time with forks on at the shop because it’s on tires. Nobody uses Loegring VTS tracks anymore that swap to tires, and they were very popular 10 years ago, they just get a CTL and change tracks more often when they’re on pavement. There are exceptions, & paving crews immediately come to mind. Mini skid steers getting bigger have played a role in the death of small frame skid steers, of course.


----------



## softdown

^^^I spend all day looking at equipment and the price tags get jumbled in the memory. Think I was wrong. I know of a 2017 Cat 299 XHP with forestry package but can't afford it right now. No financing available. Have a 4 br home closing but all of the idiots forgot to get it appraised so that is at least a 3 week delay. Next thing I know winter is back in the Colorado mountains. 

I like Tak's steel tracks and record for maintenance - a lot. But their high flow hydraulics seem to pale. So what gets the job done better? The always plodding turtle or the hare that needs a rest all too often? 

I have not seen Deere mentioned in the tree mulching category. Though they certainly make a very large skid steer with high horsepower. Plus they have a local dealership - the only skid steer dealership within 100 miles I think. So I have a mountain pass to deal with in every direction. Going to need a truck tractor for dealing with heavy equipment and mountain passes. Another area for research - Mack or Kenworth or Peterbilt or Freightliner? Single screw or double screw etc. 

I could either retire or go all in the tree and land clearing business. Boredom or massive investment? Pick your poison.


----------



## softdown

Tak is claiming 40 gpm in their current TL12. Nothing wrong with that! Plenty of horses to deliver adequate pressure. But their ballistic protections are an unknown - to me. 

One thing about Bobcat, Cat and ASV - they have machines pretty well designed for mulching and the thrown debris. Especially with the fore$try package.


----------



## catbuster

PACCAR Units>Mack>Intermational>everything else.
Freightliners earned the nickname Freightshaker a reason. Mack built an excellent unit for a long time, but they do not share the build quality of previous years... Even if the Granite makes a great dump truck chassis. Either way you’ll have to have your class A & for a truck tractor you may as well at least get a Landoll trailer to move stuff. 

I’d probably just retire before throwing all sorts of money in one setup.

Like I was talking about 10 year ago before the T870 came out, they’re _big_. This one is sitting next to a T740, which is an average “big” CTL.


----------



## softdown

Ive had a Class A though we can always rest assured that Ingsoc has made it much more difficult. Much more expensive. then they scratch their heads about pissed off youth.

Im already in too deep to back out now. I could have retired for 10 to 15 years but i am shooting for another 30 years of this adventure called life.
Should be exciting when Ingsoc collapses because it weighed a trillion tons while using a 1/4 trillion ton frame.


----------

