# Just getting started (REALLY looking forward to it!!)



## Joe Scherschel (Mar 7, 2017)

Hello all!! Short time ready, first time poster. 

I had a lot of Ash felled in my yard and woods and the plan was to have people come pick it up for burning or whatever. My father in law gave me the idea of a chainsaw mill (he's never done it, just saw it one day). I wasn't really interested until I saw some of the YouTube videos (and there are A LOT!). After seeing how awesome this looked, I was hooked! I spent the next 3 weeks or so doing research (on Mills, saws, cuts, accessories, etc). 

We looked very seriously at the Granberg however were able to find one very similar for $100 less. I bought the Holzfforma 36" mill last weekend and found a Stihl 460 with a 660 engine (modded) on Craigslist. I purchased that today. 

I'm getting closer and closer to starting this awesome passion project, but I need a little (let's be honest...a lot of) advice. I will be buying a 36" bar and chain but need some thoughts on that. The guy I bought the saw off recommended a full chisel skip tooth chain (whatever that is). Everywhere I've read recommends a Rip chain. Also, would love some info on bar and chain brand recommendations for this too. 

Thanks in advance for reading this and I look forward to hearing so much awesome info!!

TLDR version: Got saw and mill, need advice on chain and other info. 


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## BobL (Mar 7, 2017)

Welcome to the forums. I'd start by reading the Milling 101 thread at the top of this forum.


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## SeMoTony (Mar 7, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> Hello all!! Short time ready, first time poster.
> 
> I had a lot of Ash felled in my yard and woods and the plan was to have people come pick it up for burning or whatever. My father in law gave me the idea of a chainsaw mill (he's never done it, just saw it one day). I wasn't really interested until I saw some of the YouTube videos (and there are A LOT!). After seeing how awesome this looked, I was hooked! I spent the next 3 weeks or so doing research (on Mills, saws, cuts, accessories, etc).
> 
> ...


Agree with Bobl . Square skip chisel is trouble some to keep in good order for milling, but I find it worth while. IMHO semi chisel skip is easier for newbies to learn to sharpen and use. My avatar has my ms-460 w/60" bar spinning square skip chisel. I'm retired , so have the time to put on reading glasses to see my angles/result of filling with the 6 sided files needed. Had I enough reason I'd buy a chain grinder for the chisel. I use skip because it seems to clear chips better. The finish on the cut surface is more dependant on uniformity of feed/angle Learn sharping, tuning, B&C lube and proceed with caution til you learn. Experience provides knowledge, growth of knowledge then speeds process. Welcome


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 8, 2017)

Thanks for the advise. Quick question, is the terminology just different? Is a "Rip" chain the same as a "Skip Chisel" chain? Sorry for my ignorance, hard finding the right info for me.

Joe


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 8, 2017)

My main concern is I don't know what I'm looking for in terms of Pitch, Gauge, etc if I were to go buy a chain. I got the MS460 with a 20" bar so I will be buying a new 36" bar and chain...just don't know where the best place is to buy or which to buy. I guess I'd love for someone to say "get this bar and this chain with this pitch, gauge, etc". May be asking too much, lol.


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## kjudd (Mar 8, 2017)

On my 461 and 660 I run .050 Guage and .375 links on my 32in and shorter bars. That's what my 461 came with. But look on the bar with the saw it will tell you everything. 

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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 8, 2017)

I'll be buying the bar (it didn't come with the 36") separately. I found a Stihl bar and skip chain at our local shop. They want $84 for the bar and $39 for the chain. Does that sound reasonable? Or are they bending me over here? 


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## RedTailHawk (Mar 8, 2017)

I'm about to try out my new Alaskan chainsaw mill with my Stihl MS-290. I bought a ripping chain, but turns out it wasn't the correct size. Couple questions: why is it so difficult to find places that sell ripping chains? If my regular chain is a Stihl 26 RS 81 (20", 81, .325", .063" width) what size ripping chain should I get?


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 8, 2017)

I went with the bar and chain mentioned. Got it on and snapped some pics. Will post more once the mill comes in.


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## SeMoTony (Mar 8, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> I'll be buying the bar (it didn't come with the 36") separately. I found a Stihl bar and skip chain at our local shop. They want $84 for the bar and $39 for the chain. Does that sound reasonable? Or are they bending me over here?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stihl chain is pre stretched and IMHO holds sharp better if you avoid rocks & dirty wood. Pro-rated over how much use you will get from it not a bad cost. Take a close look at cutters and raker height to start with best cutting chain you can, touch em up if needed. Look online at what an oregon bar of that size to match your drive sprocket with shipping. That may give a perspective on 1st outlay, length of service will show the value.
if you take "teeth" off there will be an inch or more of milling cut available, and bring the weight of the power head closer to the bar clamp and support (-;


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 9, 2017)

SeMoTony said:


> Stihl chain is pre stretched and IMHO holds sharp better if you avoid rocks & dirty wood. Pro-rated over how much use you will get from it not a bad cost. Take a close look at cutters and raker height to start with best cutting chain you can, touch em up if needed. Look online at what an oregon bar of that size to match your drive sprocket with shipping. That may give a perspective on 1st outlay, length of service will show the value.
> if you take "teeth" off there will be an inch or more of milling cut available, and bring the weight of the power head closer to the bar clamp and support (-;



I went ahead with the Stihl bar and Oregon chain my dealer had. What do you mean by "if you take the teeth off"?


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## SeMoTony (Mar 9, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> I went ahead with the Stihl bar and Oregon chain my dealer had. What do you mean by "if you take the teeth off"?
> 
> Traumatic brain injury in 1972 still continues to interfere with memory. there is a more correct term for the black "teeth" that bite the bark to use as fulcrum in cross cutting logs/trees. Either side of bar in your two views in #9, the clamp will be closer to power head if they are removed is the point I tried to make, since those pieces serve no purpose in milling. on my 661 they do carry broke chain roller protection.


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## rarefish383 (Mar 10, 2017)

I think when tony said take teeth off he was referring to the "dogs", the big sharp steel teeth that dig into the log. If you take them off you gain an inch or two of usable length on your bar. Ripping chain is different than your standard chain in the angle of the cutter teeth. A ripping chain is sharpened at about 5-10 degrees, looks almost straight across. A skip chain looks like it has every other set of teeth removed, for a longer distance of links between the cutters. It gives the chain a chance to clear sawdust/chips. I use my 660 for firewood and removals, so I don't use ripping chain. My friend does use ripping chain and it seems to give a little smoother cut. But, once you get the hang of it, you can mill a pretty smooth cut with standard chain. If you have to push real hard and see saw back and forth, your saw is dull, and you'll get a rough cut. Elevate one end of the log so gravity helps. As Bobl said, read the milling 101 sticky and keep asking questions, Joe.


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 10, 2017)

Thank you all for your replies! Very helpful. Can't wait to get started! 


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 10, 2017)

Wait, you're saying for this I should take the dogs/teeth off? It makes sense, but just wanna confirm I won't need them on at all. 


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 10, 2017)

Also, when it comes to prep for the logs, do I want to seal the logs before i cut them, or cut them and then seal the ends? Or once cut, I don't need to seal since it will all dry evenly now? Thanks,

Joe


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## kimosawboy (Mar 10, 2017)

seal logs first
read the ''Milling 101 thread'' like BobL said
use the search function on this site, most everything you have asked has been gone over , and over, and over...


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 13, 2017)

I got my Holzfforma today! Gonna put it together and get some picks uploaded for you to see  Pretty excited!!!


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## SeMoTony (Mar 13, 2017)

RedTailHawk said:


> I'm about to try out my new Alaskan chainsaw mill with my Stihl MS-290. I bought a ripping chain, but turns out it wasn't the correct size. Couple questions: why is it so difficult to find places that sell ripping chains? If my regular chain is a Stihl 26 RS 81 (20", 81, .325", .063" width) what size ripping chain should I get?


Ripping chain is a specialty cutter grind angle. Cross cut is 25 to 35 * angle while ripping is 10 to 0*. Skip chain has more space between cutters, making it more useful on longer bars than come on the powerhead in use. Using regular cross cut chain and sharpening closer to ripping chain angle can be done. Ripping chain is made that way since the cut is against the end grain of log and the lesser angle causes less side push in the cut and a shorter cutting edge. Correct size is usually on side of bar. My ms-460 came with 3/8 .063" drive sprocket and bar to match. On the drive sprocket is listed size also and drive openings on mine either 3/8 7 or 3/8 8 , sprockets are not picky as to width of drive links, bars are. Sprocket tipped bars are sensitive to drive link spacing bars are not. Matching it isn't too hard with a bit of practice even I sounded like I knew what I was speaking of.


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## IyaMan (Mar 13, 2017)

RedTailHawk said:


> why is it so difficult to find places that sell ripping chains?



I believe most saw manufacturers do not promote the idea of using a saw for milling as it puts a lot of stress on the saw. It may even void a warranty. If your saw is still under warranty you may not want to mention to your dealer that you are milling with it.


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## Mad Professor (Mar 14, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> Also, when it comes to prep for the logs, do I want to seal the logs before i cut them, or cut them and then seal the ends? Or once cut, I don't need to seal since it will all dry evenly now? Thanks,
> 
> Joe



Welcome to the milling forum.

Plan on sealing the ends of the logs as soon as you buck them up from the tree to prevent end checking. The best product is anchorseal made by UC Coatings. This is very important with Ash as it tends to end check more than most other wood. Slather up ends good with coating and apply a 2nd coat if needed. If you trim the boards after milling coat the ends of those too. If you can't find end sealer latex paint is better than nothing.

I'm a little confused from your first post. Is the powerhead you are using a 460 or 660? Either one can be fitted with a HD oil pump which will help when using a long bar, or consider an auxillary oiler or water drip system. Don't worry about those to start out. Get your setup dialed in and get some practice. Might want to start with some low quality logs and just make up some pieces for rustic benches and such for practice. I wouldn't start with a veneer quality log.

Learning how to get the best lumber out of a log is a long process that starts with felling the tree. Lots to learn about between there and a finished board/beam. Read as much as you can about each step. It will help to watch an experienced sawyer open up a log and see how he goes about slicing it up and then how the flitches are processed into boards or beams. Once cut up you need to stack/store/dry the lumber. Watching how this is done you will learn a lot too. Might be some people who run portable mills or a small circle mill on your area? 

You will find other various equipment/tools are handy/needed and make things go along more easily depending on what you already have. 

Don't hesitate to ask questions. Above all be careful and safe.


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 15, 2017)

Thanks so much for the information! I have out together the mill and now have a (what I think) pretty important question. Can the mill clamp on the outermost part of a rollomatic bar? (Picture included). Or do I need to move it back behind it?


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## SeMoTony (Mar 15, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> Thanks so much for the information! I have out together the mill and now have a (what I think) pretty important question. Can the mill clamp on the outermost part of a rollomatic bar? (Picture included). Or do I need to move it back behind it?


Picture the circle in the middle of the bar tip, clamp just toward outside the circle. Turn the roller if there is resistance move clamp a little further away from out board end, and reclamp retry. If it spins okay there is right spacing.


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 16, 2017)

I measured the gap I have to cut with my mill. With a 36" bar and mill I measured 28". Is that normal or should I get more out of it? Already removed the dogs. 

Also, I did a lot of searching in forums but a lot of pictures are missing (too old). Could some of your please explain how to attach rails and level them? My FIL bought some T-Slot rails to put together but trying to find the best way to attach to log.

Thanks!


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## Joe Scherschel (Mar 16, 2017)

Example of what my FIL bought :


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## Joe Scherschel (Apr 3, 2017)

Made my first cut!! (Finally!) it worked perfectly and looks awesome. Felt so good finally getting started...sadly chainsaw died on me after one cut...so fixing it tomorrow. Can't wait to start drying some boards!


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## Garrit (Apr 4, 2017)

What happened to your saw? Every time I mill with my vintage saw it seems to be missing something or developed a new issue.  

Price we pay buying used!


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## Joe Scherschel (Apr 4, 2017)

The black plastic in the pull cord assembly basically shattered....


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## Joe Scherschel (Apr 5, 2017)

The starter pawls. Got them replaced and now it starts. Finished the log. Looks great (though I made a mistake on one cut and it kind of messed up the rest..good thing it's just my first log, lol). Excited to do the next (after I sharpen my chain, hahaha).


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## Joe Scherschel (Apr 19, 2017)

I'm starting to cut some of the bigger logs now. I am planning on making a table out of this log (pictured). 

Couple questions that some of you vets might be able to assist with:

Does everyone sharpen their chains after every cut or 2? I seem to be getting pretty dull...or at least it seems to be a lot more difficult to pull the chain through the log the longer I go. Other than that, it is going alright.

Another questions, the Sapwood vs. Heartwood...can I make a table with the whole board? or is the sapwood just scrap?


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## Garrit (Apr 19, 2017)

@BobL did the math on chain sharpness vs square foot milled. 

Heat might play a part in your chain dulling issue. Do you have an oiler for the tip of your bar? 

Yes use the whole slab to make the table!


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## BobL (Apr 20, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> Does everyone sharpen their chains after every cut or 2?



A rough guide is a 2-3 stroke touch up to the cutters after every tank of mix in hardwoods and maybe every 2nd/3rd tank in softer woods.
I swipe the rakers 2-3 strokes after every 3 - 4 cutter touch ups.

This is just a guide. Touching up should be done just to remove any glint on the cutter edge, that's a tiny reflection from the dulled edge. You need good lighting and good vision to see it.
My touch ups start at two strokes whether a cutter needs it or not and the keep swiping to remove any glint. If you use progressive raker setting the length of the cutters is far less critical. 



> Another questions, the Sapwood vs. Heartwood...can I make a table with the whole board? or is the sapwood just scrap?


It impossible to say until its dried. It may look good straight off the mill but during drying it may twist/cup. Flat storage with some decent weight on it will minimise problems


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## Joe Scherschel (Apr 25, 2017)

Hey BobL, thanks for the response! When I get done w/ 1 cut, the blades have what looks like sap or something on them (brownish/tan stuff). When I sharpen them I get the nice shiny metal that it should be. It is just gets really hard after I get through 1/2 the log. I only have a 36" bar and am only cutting through maybe 25" log but I'll look into an Aux Oiler. 

Anyone in Indiana wanna come show me what I'm doing wrong? haha (only half joking)


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## rarefish383 (Apr 25, 2017)

Joe, I'm using a 660 with 36" bar. No aux oiler. I do have my oil pump turned up all the way. Sometimes I keep a quart bottle of oil on my guide board and just pour some on the tip. But, I'm milling mostly Red Oak at 26 to 30 inches and 8' long, and don't use the extra oil for that. The first pass is a skinny pass knocking the cap off. Once I get into the wider wood I can usually get 3 or 4 passes without really feeling it slow down. I use Stihl 33 RS, so nothing special, and I sharpen to the factory profile. You should be getting much more than 1/2 a cut before it starts to slow up. Most of the logs I mill are with in a day or two of cutting them down. I've got some logs in my back yard that have been down for about a month, and they are covered with a layer of dust and dirt just from the wind and rain. Make sure your logs are clean. That thin layer of dust will knock the edge off quick, Joe B.


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## BobL (Apr 25, 2017)

Joe Scherschel said:


> Hey BobL, thanks for the response! When I get done w/ 1 cut, the blades have what looks like sap or something on them (brownish/tan stuff). When I sharpen them I get the nice shiny metal that it should be. It is just gets really hard after I get through 1/2 the log. I only have a 36" bar and am only cutting through maybe 25" log but I'll look into an Aux Oiler.


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## BobL (Apr 25, 2017)

An Aux oiler will help with the sap on the chain.
Post a close up fully side on picture of one of your cutters and I will see if can give you a diagnosis.


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 18, 2022)

Joe Scherschel said:


> I'll be buying the bar (it didn't come with the 36") separately. I found a Stihl bar and skip chain at our local shop. They want $84 for the bar and $39 for the chain. Does that sound reasonable? Or are they bending me over here?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Joe Scherschel said:


> I went ahead with the Stihl bar and Oregon chain my dealer had. What do you mean by "if you take the teeth off"?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Never mind taking teeth off. Frankenstein idea. Use the chain as it is and learn to file; an art in itself and very very necessary.


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## blades (Jul 18, 2022)

If you are not using wedges to keep the cut open behind the saw, that could be some of the problem as to hard to push as the blade is getting pinched by the kerf closing up. Too get the maximum width from your 36" frame you need apx a 42" bar. Hence the 28" cut you are attaining at present. ( the mounting eats up about 6" of bar) An outboard oiler should be used, as a lot of oil gets flung off the tip leaving the cutting side a bit dry. you can burn a bar and over heat a chain real quick when milling. as a note: my rig 48" frame , 60" bar(.404) skip chain, Stilh 084 for power . Also have one of those little vertical clamps for ripping smaller logs, 3/8 chain dolmar 7900 power. bar length to suit size of log. Wedges - you can make you own from whatever odds and ends laying around. Outboard oiler- does not have to be oil, Pinesol or similar works in warm temps, Winshield washer fluid for cold weather. Put a good tarp down in the saw dust drop area- makes clean up a breeze.


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## sean donato (Jul 18, 2022)

You guys realize the last post in this thread was from 2017?


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## blades (Jul 18, 2022)

Guess I better get some new glasses.


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 18, 2022)

sean donato said:


> You guys realize the last post in this thread was from 2017?


Right, and in my youth I learned more the hard way, but now I take in more timeless information from many sources, but thanks anyway, before you showed me the expiration date on the carton I had no idea how spoiled the information was.


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