# Stihl MS261 C-M "M-Tronic" - now in production



## Doug Fir (May 18, 2013)

I read on a Swedish forum that the 261 M-Tronic is now in production, so I decided to visit Stihl's German website. It's now listed on the German site, together with specifications:

MS 261 C-M - Universelle 2,9kW-Benzinmotorsäge mit M-Tronic

So how does it compare to the 550xp in terms of weight and power? The 261 C-M weighs more, but has more power than the 550xp:

261 C-M: 11.46 lbs (5.2 kg), 3.89 hp (2.9 kW) 
550xp: 10.8 lbs (4.9 kg), 3.75 hp (2.8 kW)

Of course there are other differences, such as inboard versus outboard clutch. I'll let Saw Troll chime in regarding the whole "sideways balance" thing. :msp_biggrin:

Cheers,

Doug


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## FergusonTO35 (May 18, 2013)

I wonder when electronic fuel control will be available on all sizes of saws. I really want one but have no need or funding for a 50+ cc saw. If my Echo CS-400 was so equipped I would be very happy. I wonder how close other manufacturers are to introducing their own fuel control system?


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 18, 2013)

I imagine that price point/smaller saws 400$ and less will remain carbureted, the pro 40cc-60cc saws will switch over to
autotune/M-Tronic, 70cc and bigger saws will become fuel injected. Just a wild guess but that's my gut feeling


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## justtools (May 18, 2013)

Thats Great News. It will go with my 441 r cm. My dealer is a Great guy but he is not up on the new models being released.


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## Doug Fir (May 18, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> I imagine that price point/smaller saws 400$ and less will remain carbureted, the pro 40cc-60cc saws will switch over to autotune/M-Tronic, 70cc and bigger saws will become fuel injected. Just a wild guess but that's my gut feeling



I believe that Husqvarna has big plans for Autotune, including sticking it in some of their cheaper saws.


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

Whatever they do to the 261 is vasted, as it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be - they need to come up with a neater basic design! :msp_sneaky:


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## jeepyfz450 (May 18, 2013)

I was at a Stihl dealer today picking up some NOS parts. 261 on the shelf looked and felt really really nice. I really do not need another 50CC saw but i really like the feel of the 261. M-tronic will be sweet.


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## angelo c (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Whatever they do to the 261 is vasted, as it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be - they need to come up with a neater basic design! :msp_sneaky:



Saw troll.. How can a design be "vasted" without ever actually "being" yet...


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## H 2 H (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Whatever they do to the 261 is vasted, as it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be - they need to come up with a neater basic design! :msp_sneaky:






angelo c said:


> Saw troll.. How can a design be "vasted" without ever actually "being" yet...




Don't worry about what ST says about any Stihl chain saw; he only looks at pictures of Stihl chain saws on the computer and maybe one day he will see one in real life

Like another member he posted last week a MS 261 modified is like a 60 cc chain saw and if it gets ported it's like a 70 cc chain saw :msp_ohmy:


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Whatever they do to the 261 is vasted, as it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be - they need to come up with a neater basic design! :msp_sneaky:



After seeing videos how you Euros cut I understand why balance, and compact design
are important aswell as running 15" bars on 50cc saws. But truth is over here lots of
261's are used as primary firewood bucking saws and not limbing saws, and for this task it works extremely well.

If it's coming out it'll probably be a dog just like the 441CM.


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## Aussie Dave (May 18, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> After seeing videos how you Euros cut I understand why balance, and compact design
> are important aswell as running 15" bars on 50cc saws. But truth is over here lots of
> 261's are used as primary firewood bucking saws and not limbing saws, and for this task it works extremely well.
> 
> If it's coming out it'll probably be a dog just like the 441CM.



For my use a decent air filter is far more important then perfect balance....and the 261 wins that easily!


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> After seeing videos how you Euros cut I understand why balance, and compact design
> are important aswell as running 15" bars on 50cc saws. But truth is over here lots of
> 261's are used as primary firewood bucking saws and not limbing saws, and for this task it works extremely well.
> 
> If it's coming out it'll probably be a dog just like the 441CM.



I know that, but it isn't really an excuse for making clumcy handling 50cc saws.

Btw, most people here use 13" bars on 50cc saws, but I use 16" ones. :msp_wink:


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## H 2 H (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> *I know that, but it isn't really an excuse for making clumcy handling 50cc saws*.
> 
> Btw, most people here use 13" bars on 50cc saws, but I use 16" ones. :msp_wink:



How can you say that and you have _*NEVER*_ ran one just pick one up in a saw shop ?

Or do you have a new computer game that you can run one on ?


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

Aussie Dave said:


> For my use a decent air filter is far more important then perfect balance....and the 261 wins that easily!



The over-engineered air filter system is part of the problem with the 261, but the inboard clutch likely is a larger factor. Also it is a first generation strato saw, with the weight penalty assosiated with those.


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## Aussie Dave (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> The over-engineered air filter system is part of the problem with the 261, but the inboard clutch likely is a larger factor. Also it is a first generation strato saw, with the weight penalty assosiated with those.



Come over to Australia and cut dry timber and you would change your mind on the "over-engineered" air filter.The Husky system isnt in the same league.


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## H 2 H (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> The over-engineered air filter system is part of the problem with the 261, but the inboard clutch likely is a larger factor. Also it is a first generation strato saw, with the weight penalty assosiated with those.



One of the _*BEST*_ air filter system on the market today


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## StihlKiwi (May 18, 2013)

The direction of this thread seems familiar..


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 18, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> One of the _*BEST*_ air filter system on the market today



His mind can't process "best air filter" and "stihl" in the same sentence, so it's
coming up error in his CPU.


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## angelo c (May 18, 2013)

StihlKiwi said:


> The direction of this thread seems familiar..



Kind of hard to avoid when the conversation comes out of the wrong end of the donkey.


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## H 2 H (May 18, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> His mind can't process "best air filter" and "stihl" in the same sentence, so it's
> coming up error in his CPU.



Oh so true :msp_wink:


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## H 2 H (May 18, 2013)

angelo c said:


> Kind of hard to avoid when the conversation comes out of the wrong end of the donkey.



ps:


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## Saw Dr. (May 18, 2013)

This is the first I have heard of this! This probably means that the engineering is done for a 271 and 291 M-tron as well. Those are the saws that will really sell with it. This would fit with Husky offering the 455 AT also. Hmmm, interesting. 

Won't it be fun when this stuff gets more available and cheaper? It would be neat to retrofit an M-tronic setup to something like an 032 just to do it.


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## StihlKiwi (May 18, 2013)

angelo c said:


> Kind of hard to avoid when the conversation comes out of the wrong end of the donkey.



Bit like this isn't it? 

Donkey Fight - YouTube

:msp_biggrin:


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## angelo c (May 18, 2013)

Saw Dr. said:


> This is the first I have heard of this! This probably means that the engineering is done for a 271 and 291 M-tron as well. Those are the saws that will really sell with it. This would fit with Husky offering the 455 AT also. Hmmm, interesting.
> 
> Won't it be fun when this stuff gets more available and cheaper? It would be neat to retrofit an M-tronic setup to something like an 032 just to do it.



SELL.??
Who in their right minds cares how well they sell....we want to know how well it balances. Firewood is an extreemly finicky product...just the slightest misapropriated torque and the stuff just wont keep your house warm. It just wont.


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## justtools (May 19, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I know that, but it isn't really an excuse for making clumcy handling 50cc saws.
> 
> Btw, most people here use 13" bars on 50cc saws, but I use 16" ones. :msp_wink:



You Euros really do carry the Short bars dont you!!! It appears you are a little prouder than your neighbors.


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## FergusonTO35 (May 19, 2013)

> Won't it be fun when this stuff gets more available and cheaper? It would be neat to retrofit an M-tronic setup to something like an 032 just to do it.



I really hope that the it will be easy to retrofit older electronic fuel control, 'specially since older saws are way better looking!!


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## SawTroll (May 19, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> One of the _*BEST*_ air filter system on the market today



Could well be, but it isn't needed in most cutting conditions - so it mainly adds weight and bulk to the saw, for no real gain.

To me, it looks like engineers that never used a chainsaw is ruling at Stihl, and have been doing so for quite some time - they keep designing *excellent solutions to non-existing problems*, and are totally lost when it comes to handling and ergonomics!


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## H 2 H (May 19, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Could well be, but it isn't needed in most cutting conditions - so it mainly adds weight and bulk to the saw, for no real gain.
> 
> 
> 
> To me, it looks like engineers that never used a chainsaw is ruling at Stihl, and have been doing so for quite some time - they keep designing *excellent solutions to non-existing problems*, and are totally lost when it comes to handling and ergonomics!





_*Then you never cut in dry conditions*_


99.9 % of the members here on AS knows how you will post about Stihl and Stihl products ST


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 19, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Could well be, but it isn't needed in most cutting conditions - so it mainly adds weight and bulk to the saw, for no real gain.
> 
> To me, it looks like engineers that never used a chainsaw is ruling at Stihl, and have been doing so for quite some time - they keep designing *excellent solutions to non-existing problems*, and are totally lost when it comes to handling and ergonomics!



Truth be told I've NEVER had a customer complain or even mention handling or ergonomics.
But to most real world cutters Power, Durability, Reliability and Price seem to be most important.


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## LowVolt (May 19, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Like another member he posted last week a MS 261 modified is like a 60 cc chain saw and if it gets ported it's like a 70 cc chain saw :msp_ohmy:



H2H, I ran ptjeep's ported 261 next to my stock 261 at the indiana gtg and it absolutely blew the freakin doors off my saw. Needless to say, I am going to contact brad about some port work. It was awesome!!!


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## angelo c (May 19, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Truth be told I've NEVER had a customer complain or even mention handling or ergonomics.
> But to most real world cutters Power, Durability, Reliability and Price seem to be most important.



Oh those pesky americans demanding aren't they ????

The Europeans are so much more refined in their needs...but what's with those pointy shoes? oh
...got any Grey Poupon....my saws ergonomics aren't quite right.


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## clifforion (May 19, 2013)

*Quote from stihl.com*

"The next innovation was presented with the new STIHL MS 261 C-M chain saw: It will be launched in July as an upmarket version of the standard MS 261 with the fully electronic M-Tronic engine management system. It controls ignition timing and fuel flow for the best possible engine performance at all times without the need for manual adjustments, and also takes account of changes in altitude, ambient temperature and fuel quality. The intelligent electronic system recognizes the machine's operating status at any given time. As a result, only one starting position is needed on the Master Control lever. The new chain saw is intended for professional users in forestry, agriculture, horticulture and landscaping but will also appeal to demanding occasional users."

That is a direct quote from stihl.com

Hope it helps
Keith


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## LowVolt (May 19, 2013)

clifforion said:


> "The next innovation was presented with the new STIHL MS 261 C-M chain saw: It will be launched in July as an upmarket version of the standard MS 261 with the fully electronic M-Tronic engine management system. It controls ignition timing and fuel flow for the best possible engine performance at all times without the need for manual adjustments, and also takes account of changes in altitude, ambient temperature and fuel quality. The intelligent electronic system recognizes the machine's operating status at any given time. As a result, only one starting position is needed on the Master Control lever. The new chain saw is intended for professional users in forestry, agriculture, horticulture and landscaping but will also appeal to demanding occasional users."
> 
> That is a direct quote from stihl.com
> 
> ...



Is this USA? Got a link???


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## MCW (May 19, 2013)

No matter what Stihl stick on the 261 I still think it will struggle to keep up with a 550XP in outright performance. However my 550XP's filtration is indeed garbage and that useless little felling spike may as well go in the bin. For those that don't think a small saw can use a decent set of spikes you should see all the paint flaking off the front of the case. The case spends more time digging into the tree than the useless little spike.
Husky have a saw here that has the potential to tan the arse of anything Stihl can throw at it then the morons completely overlook two key aspects in my book.
I love my 550XP, but this filter and spike issue are two things that they completely missed the boat on.
The Huskys certainly do balance better than the Stihl's but it's not a biggy in my book.
If the 261 comes with better off idle throttle response than the other M-Tronics I've run then it's definitely got a foot in the door...


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## RogueWave (May 19, 2013)

MCW said:


> No matter what Stihl stick on the 261 I still think it will struggle to keep up with a 550XP in outright performance. However my 550XP's filtration is indeed garbage and that useless little felling spike may as well go in the bin. For those that don't think a small saw can use a decent set of spikes you should see all the paint flaking off the front of the case. The case spends more time digging into the tree than the useless little spike.
> Husky have a saw here that has the potential to tan the arse of anything Stihl can throw at it then the morons completely overlook two key aspects in my book.
> I love my 550XP, but this filter and spike issue are two things that they completely missed the boat on.
> The Huskys certainly do balance better than the Stihl's but it's not a biggy in my book.
> If the 261 comes with better off idle throttle response than the other M-Tronics I've run then it's definitely got a foot in the door...



I don't know about an m-tronic stihl(441) but the standard 261 has NO hesitation in throttle response that I have seen wit mine. Revs up no problem!


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## H 2 H (May 19, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> I don't know about an m-tronic stihl(441) but the standard 261 has NO hesitation in throttle response that I have seen wit mine. Revs up no problem!



All you have to do is adjust the carb a little


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## H 2 H (May 19, 2013)

MCW said:


> No matter what Stihl stick on the 261 I still think it will struggle to keep up with a 550XP in outright performance. *However my 550XP's filtration is indeed garbage and that useless little felling spike may as well go in the bin*. For those that don't think a small saw can use a decent set of spikes you should see all the paint flaking off the front of the case. The case spends more time digging into the tree than the useless little spike.
> Husky have a saw here that has the potential to tan the arse of anything Stihl can throw at it then the morons completely overlook two key aspects in my book.
> I love my 550XP, but this filter and spike issue are two things that they completely missed the boat on.
> The Huskys certainly do balance better than the Stihl's but it's not a biggy in my book.
> If the 261 comes with better off idle throttle response than the other M-Tronics I've run then it's definitely got a foot in the door...



I never knew that :jester:


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## RogueWave (May 19, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> I don't know about an m-tronic stihl(441) but the standard 261 has NO hesitation in throttle response that I have seen wit mine. Revs up no problem!



Maybe its missing "RevBoost"...


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## Russ Melampy (May 19, 2013)

*when will the mtronic 261 be available in united states?*

I just bought ms 441 rcm mtronic and love it, it really screams, sometimes it's too much saw. now I want a 261 to partner it up. when will I be able to pick one up? I know they are on stihl's website but not the US...love the easy start, perfect tune and the ability to play with saw through time, muffler mods and perhaps a port job someday...


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## clifforion (May 19, 2013)

*Forgot the link*

STIHL grows faster than industry in 2012 | STIHL | Stihl, Viking, chain saws, brushcutters, hedge trimmers, clearing saws, high-pressure cleaners, lawn mowers, trimmers


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## homelite42 (May 19, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Whatever they do to the 261 is vasted, as it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be - they need to come up with a neater basic design! :msp_sneaky:



Exactly, they need to completely redesign their 50cc saw. Right now its giant lumbering awkward clumsy oaf. The ms261 is a 50cc saw trapped in a 70cc saw's body. Perhaps Stihl could hire a few husky engineers and ask them to show them how an appropriately sized 50cc is made.


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## Officer's Match (May 19, 2013)

My 441C isn't stock, but it rips off idle. As in more zip than my ported 2153.


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## Russ Melampy (May 19, 2013)

It looks like sometime in July if I read that correctly...I think I can wait that long. 
Russ


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## MCW (May 20, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> the standard 261 has NO hesitation in throttle response that I have seen wit mine. Revs up no problem!



May I suggest that you don't know what awesome throttle response is  I retuned my 261 and it was still a slug. Bulk torque but lazy throttle response. The modded versions are obviously better but so are ALL modified versions.
If you've run a 200T you'll know what awesome stock throttle response is. The 550XP is right up there. The 261 is not.


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## RogueWave (May 20, 2013)

MCW said:


> May I suggest that you don't know what awesome throttle response is  I retuned my 261 and it was still a slug. Bulk torque but lazy throttle response. The modded versions are obviously better but so are ALL modified versions.
> If you've run a 200T you'll know what awesome stock throttle response is. The 550XP is right up there. The 261 is not.



Point taken. I'm just saying for the few saws I ran it seems just fine. But then again I never handled a modded saw or 200T.:msp_biggrin:


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## MCW (May 20, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> Point taken. I'm just saying for the few saws I ran it seems just fine. But then again I never handled a modded saw or 200T.:msp_biggrin:



Well you're in for a pleasant surprise when you finally do run a ported saw or a 200T/550XP then  You'll be grinning for months!


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## 1Zach1 (May 20, 2013)

Was planning on picking up a 261 with 18" bar but heard rumors of the M-Tronic version coming so I held off. Can't wait!


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## Doug Fir (May 20, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Truth be told I've NEVER had a customer complain or even mention handling or ergonomics.
> But to most real world cutters Power, Durability, Reliability and Price seem to be most important.



Interesting point. I know that I am very interested in reliability. I've read good things on this forum about the reliability of the 261, but the views on another forum seem less favorable. I have also read conflicting views regarding the reliability of Huskies. Has anyone seen any data? For cars there is pretty good data on the average reliability of different models. Is there any data at all on chain saws? 

Doug


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## RogueWave (May 20, 2013)

Doug Fir said:


> Interesting point. I know that I am very interested in reliability. I've read good things on this forum about the reliability of the 261, but the views on another forum seem less favorable. I have also read conflicting views regarding the reliability of Huskies. Has anyone seen any data? For cars there is pretty good data on the average reliability of different models. Is there any data at all on chain saws?
> 
> Doug



Don't know, but I would think if you factor in say 2stroke mix(a variable) say compared to an automobile it would be hard to have a default standard. But then you could say what is the average oil change interval in cars/trucks so... I know you get extended warranties using stihl/husky synthetic mix oil so I think that says something, not just to buy the higher priced oil, maybe not though.


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## Jet47 (May 20, 2013)

I have run a 261 and they are a very nice saw, was very surprised how they worked for a 50cc saw.

Then I bought a 550xp, I feel Husky are a step ahead. A pretty big step.


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## RogueWave (May 20, 2013)

Jet47 said:


> I have run a 261 and they are a very nice saw, was very surprised how they worked for a 50cc saw.
> 
> Then I bought a 550xp, I feel Husky are a step ahead. A pretty big step.



Yea but the question really is how reliable and durable are the new generation saws?...I would think they would be good, but time will tell. I even had a husky dealer try to steer me away from the 562xp this past winter and set me up with a time and tested 372xp or 346xp.


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## Jet47 (May 20, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> Yea but the question really is how reliable and durable are the new generation saws?...I would think they would be good, but time will tell. I even had a husky dealer try to steer me away from the 562xp this past winter and set me up with a time and tested 372xp or 346xp.



It is early, so the question of reliability and durability hasn't been answered. But I have roughly 400 tanks of gas through my 550xp without an issue.


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## RogueWave (May 20, 2013)

Jet47 said:


> It is early, so the question of reliability and durability hasn't been answered. But I have roughly 400 tanks of gas through my 550xp without an issue.



Good to hear


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## MCW (May 20, 2013)

Jet47 said:


> I have run a 261 and they are a very nice saw, was very surprised how they worked for a 50cc saw.
> 
> Then I bought a 550xp, I feel Husky are a step ahead. A pretty big step.



I agree. Husky are a step ahead from an engine point of view, miles ahead in fact. However they are also behind on a few things. If I could stick the 261's filter on the 550 plus a decent set of dual spikes I'd probably buy another one.

It probably sounds like I hate 261's but I don't. They are an excellent saw and if I was going to back a saw from a long term reliability point of view I'd probably go with the 261.


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## Doug Fir (May 21, 2013)

MCW said:


> ... Husky are a step ahead from an engine point of view, miles ahead in fact. ...



Any chance that the addition of M-tronic to the 261 will change this? If you look at the specs (in the first post in this thread) the 261 M-tronic has more power than the 550xp. Of course it comes with a weight penalty. 



MCW said:


> It probably sounds like I hate 261's but I don't. They are an excellent saw and if I was going to back a saw from a long term reliability point of view I'd probably go with the 261.



Again, might the addition of M-tronic change this? How has M-tronic affected long term reliability with the 441? Or is it too early to say?

Doug


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## H 2 H (May 21, 2013)

If you guys/gals are worried about 1/2 lbs in weight step back from the computer :msp_tongue:


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## moody (May 21, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> If you guys/gals are worried about 1/2 lbs in weight step back from the computer :msp_tongue:



Why are they just under 12 now?


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## Officer's Match (May 21, 2013)

moody said:


> Why are they just under 12 now?



Spec's schmecks - if it does for the 261 what it did for the 441, I say bring the M-Tronic on!!


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## MCW (May 21, 2013)

Doug Fir said:


> Any chance that the addition of M-tronic to the 261 will change this? If you look at the specs (in the first post in this thread) the 261 M-tronic has more power than the 550xp. Of course it comes with a weight penalty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Published power ratings can sometimes be misleading. The 261 I owned certainly had bucketloads of torque and wouldn't be far off a 550XP in the cut with lets say a 20" 3/8" bar buried. As far as felling or limbing where you need snappy throttle response a 261 wouldn't have a hope against a 550XP.
The one issue I've seen with M-Tronics is sluggish off idle response which of course can be fixed by modding but I'm talking stock saws here.
I suppose it's like saying that a tractor is 110HP versus a road bike that's 110HP. The 261 is the tractor.
M-Tronic will most certainly improve the overall usability of the 261 but until Stihl come out with something like rev boost I still think they'll struggle against the 550XP from an overall performance point of view. I'll be honest in saying that if the 261C could match the overall performance of a 550XP I'd go the Stihl for the filter alone.
As far as reliability goes M-Tronic is well proven and I've only heard of one 441C carby failing.
In the marketplace though I doubt they'll struggle because they have Stihl written on them


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## TK (May 21, 2013)

MCW said:


> Published power ratings can sometimes be misleading. The 261 I owned certainly had bucketloads of torque and wouldn't be far off a 550XP in the cut with lets say a 20" 3/8" bar buried. As far as felling or limbing where you need snappy throttle response a 261 wouldn't have a hope against a 550XP.
> The one issue I've seen with M-Tronics is sluggish off idle response which of course can be fixed by modding but I'm talking stock saws here.
> I suppose it's like saying that a tractor is 110HP versus a road bike that's 110HP. The 261 is the tractor.
> M-Tronic will most certainly improve the overall usability of the 261 but until Stihl come out with something like rev boost I still think they'll struggle against the 550XP from an overall performance point of view. I'll be honest in saying that if the 261C could match the overall performance of a 550XP I'd go the Stihl for the filter alone.
> ...



I've heard of a few 441m-tronic saws having issues here, mostly from a Stihl-head. He said his saw ran absolutely awesome for the longest time (he uses it commercially for his smaller logging and firewooding company) but it seems like one day it just up and quit. The Stihl shop he goes to is good but perhaps not the most computer inclined as he says, but they haven't been able to figure it out. I guess he's going to end up with a new carb/computer setup (I'm not sure how it goes in a Stihl) and Stihl is going to cover it under warranty even though it's long since run out. But his wasn't the only one in there with the problem, some were newer with less time on them and some were in his ballpark with a bunch of hours. 

I would say m-tronic is not as proven as Autotune. The Stihl saws with problems seem to be with the computer from what I can tell, the Husky's are not with the autotune. We are most afraid of what we don't know :msp_wink: I'm not saying it's not a good saw, it's a great saw, it just has issues like anything else. 

And it does help to have Stihl stamped on the side


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## MCW (May 21, 2013)

TK said:


> I've heard of a few 441m-tronic saws having issues here, mostly from a Stihl-head. He said his saw ran absolutely awesome for the longest time (he uses it commercially for his smaller logging and firewooding company) but it seems like one day it just up and quit. The Stihl shop he goes to is good but perhaps not the most computer inclined as he says, but they haven't been able to figure it out. I guess he's going to end up with a new carb/computer setup (I'm not sure how it goes in a Stihl) and Stihl is going to cover it under warranty even though it's long since run out. But his wasn't the only one in there with the problem, some were newer with less time on them and some were in his ballpark with a bunch of hours.
> 
> I would say m-tronic is not as proven as Autotune. The Stihl saws with problems seem to be with the computer from what I can tell, the Husky's are not with the autotune. We are most afraid of what we don't know :msp_wink: I'm not saying it's not a good saw, it's a great saw, it just has issues like anything else.
> 
> And it does help to have Stihl stamped on the side



Hmmm interesting on the amount of failures you've heard of. I've only heard of this one 441C and a new carb from Stihl fixed it. I talk a fair bit with a dealer who has a lot to do with the technical side of things from Stihl Australia and it doesn't sound like we are seeing the same issues here but then again our market is a LOT smaller than in the US.


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## TK (May 21, 2013)

Well, this is from a guy who talked to some guy at some other dealership.... 

So I don't know how much of it to believe  But he's a Stihl guy through and through, not sure how much he'd be knocking them if it weren't true? He bought a 440 to stay away from the computer saws. It's not the gospel but at least a version of it LOL


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## Philip Wheelock (May 21, 2013)

TK said:


> Well, this is from a guy who talked to some guy at some other dealership...



FWIW, straight from the local Stihl repair tech: M-Tronic - ask him in five years; hasn't be out long enough (he has received training in using the diagnostic software). M261: bulletproof so far.


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## H 2 H (May 21, 2013)

TK said:


> Well, this is from a guy who talked to some guy at some other dealership....



I heard from my neighbors brother friend that another brand saws are not that good :jester:


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 21, 2013)

I've sold a couple dozen 441 CM saws and had no failures or issues
with the M Tronic units. I did have one that needed the carb replaced and that was
a freak thing, so much so that Stihl called back the carb for further analysis.


----------



## TK (May 21, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> I've sold a couple dozen 441 CM saws and had no failures or issues
> with the M Tronic units. I did have one that needed the carb replaced and that was
> a freak thing, so much so that Stihl called back the carb for further analysis.



Same here with 562's, one issue and it wouldn't have even been noticed if it weren't for the AT diagnostics - and it wasn't a AT related problem. 

The place he was at has sold 562's by the hundreds. Far higher sales volume than my shop by far. I don't know what he does with Stihl. They also sell jonsered and echo. Obviously the number of failed pieces will be higher for sure. 

I shouldn't have brought in the hearsay but of information as it most likely will be misinterpreted in the end.


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## Eric106 (May 21, 2013)

I'm not sure when but, I'm pretty sure I now know what my next new saw is going to be. 

-Eric


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## MCW (May 22, 2013)

Eric106 said:


> I'm not sure when but, I'm pretty sure I now know what my next new saw is going to be.
> 
> -Eric



Poulan?


----------



## Karl Robbers (May 22, 2013)

MCW said:


> No matter what Stihl stick on the 261 I still think it will struggle to keep up with a 550XP in outright performance. However my 550XP's filtration is indeed garbage and that useless little felling spike may as well go in the bin. For those that don't think a small saw can use a decent set of spikes you should see all the paint flaking off the front of the case. The case spends more time digging into the tree than the useless little spike.
> Husky have a saw here that has the potential to tan the arse of anything Stihl can throw at it then the morons completely overlook two key aspects in my book.
> I love my 550XP, but this filter and spike issue are two things that they completely missed the boat on.
> The Huskys certainly do balance better than the Stihl's but it's not a biggy in my book.
> If the 261 comes with better off idle throttle response than the other M-Tronics I've run then it's definitely got a foot in the door...


With your saw being a US model it would have the nylon mesh filter wouldn't it? There is a felt filter, (P/N 522675403), that I believe is fitted to Australian spec saws that should improve the filtration somewhat.


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## SawTroll (May 22, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> _*Then you never cut in dry conditions*_
> 
> 
> 99.9 % of the members here on AS knows how you will post about Stihl and Stihl products ST



No, it depends on the product and not the brand - you need to lift your wiew from your Stihl engraved bellybutten now and then. No brand does everything right!


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## Karl Robbers (May 22, 2013)

In fairness to Saw Troll, he does actually own a Stihl, so he is not totally biased and must have seen something in the Euro MS361 that he liked better than the equivalent Husky.
Different people look for different qualities in a saw. I would argue that balance in a 50cc saw is a higher priority than for a 90+cc saw due to their different intended usage. Anyone who has watched video of the limbing heats at the world logging championships will see how the saw is absolutely thrown around, (admittedly, these were 70-75cc saws, but you get my point). A large saw is more of a stand your ground and use the raw grunt proposition. Due to their forestry practices, the Europeans rarely see any saw much over 75cc and primarily cut what Australians would term small timber, hence their focus on balance and handling. A small saw should be an extension of your arm in my opinion
I own saws from 42 to 120cc and all have their places, I love the feel of my 394, but positively hate the feel of an MS660. Two comparable saws, both with the pedigree to perform, but individual preferences prevail.
In reality, either a Stihl or a Husky of the professional variety will outperform most of us on this forum and the choice comes down to the anciliary features and our own personal bias. No saw is perfect, but these new models are scarily close to it.
If we didn't bicker about saws, we would argue about football, hockey or cars.


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## 036Pro (May 22, 2013)

Doug Fir said:


> I read on a Swedish forum that the 261 M-Tronic is now in production, so I decided to visit Stihl's German website. It's now listed on the German site, together with specifications:
> 
> MS 261 C-M - Universelle 2,9kW-Benzinmotorsäge mit M-Tronic
> 
> ...


 I emailed Stihl about the Stihl MS261 C-M M-Tronic & here is a copy of the email;

Hello John.

Thanks for your E-mail and your interest in STIHL products.

The MS261C-M is scheduled for release in the 3rd quarter of 2013.




We do not quote prices from the factory.

All of our dealers are individually owned and operated and they set their own prices. They all have to compete with each other so their prices will not vary much.

However, they will not have prices on this model until closer to the release date.

I hope this helps and if I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. 

Sincerely,

Mark O’Briant

STIHL Inc. Technical Advisor


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## Philip Wheelock (May 22, 2013)

Karl Robbers said:


> ...In reality, either a Stihl or a Husky of the professional variety will outperform most of us on this forum and the choice comes down to the anciliary features and our own personal bias. No saw is perfect, but these new models are scarily close to it...



:agree2: I'm amazed enough how well my older technology saws get the work done. Even more amazed when I tried out a 550xp and 562xp at the dealer last week. Of course, all the chatter about who makes the best saws makes the AS forum a more interesting place to hang around.


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## MCW (May 22, 2013)

Karl Robbers said:


> With your saw being a US model it would have the nylon mesh filter wouldn't it? There is a felt filter, (P/N 522675403), that I believe is fitted to Australian spec saws that should improve the filtration somewhat.



The mesh filter was useless. I only ran the saw once while waiting for a flocked filter to arrive just to make sure it started and ran 
So yeah, even the flocked filter without oil was garbage in what we cut here...

550XP after one tank (and before anyone asks this garbage was going straight through the filter element itself, not around it, and a lot of this was REAL dust, not wood dust)...





And the HD2 from my MS241C after probably 10 tanks or more...


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## Karl Robbers (May 22, 2013)

MCW said:


> The mesh filter was useless. I only ran the saw once while waiting for a flocked filter to arrive just to make sure it started and ran
> So yeah, even the flocked filter without oil was garbage in what we cut here...
> 
> 550XP after one tank (and before anyone asks this garbage was going straight through the filter element itself, not around it, and a lot of this was REAL dust, not wood dust)...
> ...


Not good. I am surprised how ineffective that filter appears to be.
Do you use something like Belray fibre filter oil on it now? I guess I'll find out when my new 562 arrives in a couple of weeks.
The Aussie hardwoods really check out an air cleaner don't they.


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## Stihlman441 (May 22, 2013)

461 after 4 tanks with HD2 filter and pre filter cutting dry Yellowbox.


----------



## FergusonTO35 (May 22, 2013)

Wonder if Dolmar and Echo are trying to come up with their own electronic fuel control?


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## MCW (May 22, 2013)

Karl Robbers said:


> Not good. I am surprised how ineffective that filter appears to be.
> Do you use something like Belray fibre filter oil on it now? I guess I'll find out when my new 562 arrives in a couple of weeks.
> The Aussie hardwoods really check out an air cleaner don't they.



This is typical of flocked filters in Australia cutting dry, dead hardwoods. Stihl Australia acknowledged issues with their filtration on the older style flocked filters years ago and probably had a lot to do with them releasing the HD2. The only other non oiled pro type filter setup I've seen keep out garbage like this is the Dolmar HD setup that I run on my 7900's.
I can't remember the name of the filter oil I use but it's blue and made in Switzerland. A little bit goes a long way.


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## Doug Fir (May 22, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> 461 after 4 tanks with HD2 filter and pre filter cutting dry Yellowbox.



While I'm no expert, it looks like your air filter needs cleaning. 

I can see why so many of you Aussies like those "over engineered" air filters! 

Doug


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## H 2 H (May 22, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> No, it depends on the product and not the brand - you need to lift your wiew from your Stihl engraved bellybutten now and then. No brand does everything right!



I own 5 different brands of saws ST 

You have nothing good to say about 99.9 % of Stihl products maybe you should read your posts


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## opinion (May 22, 2013)

Of all the MS 441C-M, FS 460C-M and TS 500i's we've sold, we haven't had one brought back in. I'm kinda hoping we would so I can use the damn diagnostic tool. That thing is so expensive I have to get some use out of it!


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## wap13 (May 22, 2013)

MCW said:


> The mesh filter was useless. I only ran the saw once while waiting for a flocked filter to arrive just to make sure it started and ran
> So yeah, even the flocked filter without oil was garbage in what we cut here...
> 
> 550XP after one tank (and before anyone asks this garbage was going straight through the filter element itself, not around it, and a lot of this was REAL dust, not wood dust)...
> ...



Is the new filter (PN 522675403) that much better?


----------



## Sagetown (May 22, 2013)

angelo c said:


> Kind of hard to avoid when the conversation comes out of the wrong end of the donkey.



Reminds me of the Rodeo Clown and his talking donkey. Clown fed the donkey some beans, and asked him if he'd like some more, then lifted the donkeys tail and it said: "Aaaahh Fffeeeewwww."


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 22, 2013)

opinion said:


> Of all the MS 441C-M, FS 460C-M and TS 500i's we've sold, we haven't had one brought back in. I'm kinda hoping we would so I can use the damn diagnostic tool. That thing is so expensive I have to get some use out of it!



My rep has one, and lives 10 minutes from my shop. But I haven't needed it yet anyway.


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## MCW (May 22, 2013)

wap13 said:


> Is the new filter (PN 522675403) that much better?



The flocked filter is a LOT better than the mesh filter but they are still both bad under a lot of the conditions I cut in. I've also cut in high rainfall, forested type areas and these problems simply don't exist. Where I live has an annual rainfall of 11" so basically a desert so to speak.


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## H 2 H (May 22, 2013)

MCW said:


> The mesh filter was useless. I only ran the saw once while waiting for a flocked filter to arrive just to make sure it started and ran
> So yeah, even the flocked filter without oil was garbage in what we cut here...
> 
> 550XP after one tank (and before anyone asks this garbage was going straight through the filter element itself, not around it, and a lot of this was REAL dust, not wood dust)...
> ...







Stihlman441 said:


> 461 after 4 tanks with HD2 filter and pre filter cutting dry Yellowbox.






Yep; those _*"over-engineered air filter system"*_ don't work at all :bang:


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## SawTroll (May 22, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> I own 5 different brands of saws ST
> 
> You have nothing good to say about 99.9 % of Stihl products maybe you should read your posts



It is far from 99.9%, but the percentage has been increasing the last decade or so. It actually looks like a lot of knowledge in the Stihl design and engineer team was lost in the early 2000s - some of it earlier....


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## H 2 H (May 22, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> It is far from 99.9%, but the percentage has been increasing the last decade or so. _*It actually looks like a lot of knowlege in the Stihl design and engineer team was lost in the early 2000s - some of it earlier*_....




Like the _*"over-engineered air filter system"*_


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## TK (May 22, 2013)

Any air filter can look like that on the outside, what's so special about that one?


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## Eric106 (May 22, 2013)

Eric106 said:


> I'm not sure when but, I'm pretty sure I now know what my next new saw is going to be.
> 
> -Eric





MCW said:


> Poulan?



Funny, but no. I have been thinking for a while that a 261 is most likely what I would get next but am in no rush right now and so was hoping they would come out with an M-Tronic version before I ended up needing to get one.

-Eric


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## Karl Robbers (May 22, 2013)

I suspect that it is more the inside that they are interested in. No mistake, the HD2 is a vast improvement on the old filters.
I suspect that I will not be subject to the same level of problems that MCW has. Tassie has a far higher rainfall than 11", particularly the west coast where it rains for 9 months and drips off the leaves for the other 3!
It is a shame that Husky seems to have dropped the ball in this area compared to some other saws, still, I haven't actually got mine in my hands yet, so time will tell.


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

TK said:


> Any air filter can look like that on the outside, what's so special about that one?



So you missed all the dust caked into the intake post filter on my 550XP then?
I oil the 550's flocked filter now and that has stopped the dust 100% but it clogs up a lot faster.
It's actually not that hard for Husky to run a decent dry paper element like the Stihl HD2's and the Dolmar HD system.
You'd think that if Dolmar can do it then Husky should find it super easy with the amount of saws they sell.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a way bigger Husky fan than Stihl but I give credit where credit's due.


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## harrygrey382 (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> I oil the 550's flocked filter now and that has stopped the dust 100% but it clogs up a lot faster..


Sorry not meaning to hijack (although I guess I am) - but do you mean just oiling a standard flocked air filter (like on an 038M or new style 070) works well but needs more cleaning? I assume with proper filter oil? My saws are injesting a heap of saw dust from you guessed it long dead yellow box amongst others, not to mention milling with the 070 and looking for any sort of improvements...


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

harrygrey382 said:


> Sorry not meaning to hijack (although I guess I am) - but do you mean just oiling a standard flocked air filter (like on an 038M or new style 070) works well but needs more cleaning? I assume with proper filter oil? My saws are injesting a heap of saw dust from you guessed it long dead yellow box amongst others, not to mention milling with the 070 and looking for any sort of improvements...



Hi mate.
Yeah I mean oiling the standard flocked filter. You can buy the aerosol cans of dedicated filter oil from most motorcross style bike shops.
All they need is a quick squirt, let it dry out a bit, and away you go. I oiled my Husky 3120 filters years ago and they haven't had to be oiled since - I just blow them off with compressed air. You will find more dust and garbage builds up on the outside of the filter but at least it's not going through your engine.
Milling our hardwoods really tests out chainsaw filters for sure  Redgum is the worst I've come across. As far as Box we only have Black Box where I live and that's bad too.


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## TK (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> So you missed all the dust caked into the intake post filter on my 550XP then?
> I oil the 550's flocked filter now and that has stopped the dust 100% but it clogs up a lot faster.
> It's actually not that hard for Husky to run a decent dry paper element like the Stihl HD2's and the Dolmar HD system.
> You'd think that if Dolmar can do it then Husky should find it super easy with the amount of saws they sell.
> Don't get me wrong, I'm a way bigger Husky fan than Stihl but I give credit where credit's due.



I saw your 550 pic, just not the inside of the hd2 filter.


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 23, 2013)

TK said:


> I saw your 550 pic, just not the inside of the hd2 filter.



It stays clean, really clean. Suck it Husky guys.


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## blsnelling (May 23, 2013)

Matt, do you think maybe the pre-filter is actually hurting you? It appears to me that it's just trapping the fines, and preventing them from falling off.


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Matt, do you think maybe the pre-filter is actually hurting you? It appears to me that it's just trapping the fines, and preventing them from falling off.



I don't run pre filters Brad for exactly that reason. I think you're referring to Andrew's photos.


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

TK said:


> I saw your 550 pic, just not the inside of the hd2 filter.



Gotcha. Trust me though that the inside of the HD2 filter will be spotless regardless of what the outside looks like.


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> It stays clean, really clean. Suck it Husky guys.



I was going to "like" your comment but I'm a Husky guy


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## Aussie Dave (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> Hi mate.
> Yeah I mean oiling the standard flocked filter. You can buy the aerosol cans of dedicated filter oil from most motorcross style bike shops.
> All they need is a quick squirt, let it dry out a bit, and away you go. I oiled my Husky 3120 filters years ago and they haven't had to be oiled since - I just blow them off with compressed air. You will find more dust and garbage builds up on the outside of the filter but at least it's not going through your engine.
> Milling our hardwoods really tests out chainsaw filters for sure  Redgum is the worst I've come across. As far as Box we only have Black Box where I live and that's bad too.



Each to there own but i find the spray filter oil a messy pita.As recommended by a dealer and after receiving a letter from Husky after buying my 55 all i have ever done is to wash the filter out in two stroke mix,let it dry and away you go.Serves two purposes,cleans the filter well and the remaining oil keeps out the dust.
I was concerened at first the petrol may damage the filter material,but i still have the original filter after 22 years and its fine.


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

Aussie Dave said:


> Each to there own but i find the spray filter oil a messy pita.As recommended by a dealer and after receiving a letter from Husky after buying my 55 all i have ever done is to wash the filter out in two stroke mix,let it dry and away you go.Serves two purposes,cleans the filter well and the remaining oil keeps out the dust.
> I was concerened at first the petrol may damage the filter material,but i still have the original filter after 22 years and its fine.



That's the hillbilly version  My Husky dealer told me to use filter oil on my 3120 or the warranty would be void.


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## Miles86 (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> Hi mate.
> Yeah I mean oiling the standard flocked filter.* You can buy the aerosol cans of dedicated filter oil from most motorcross style bike shops.*All they need is a quick squirt, let it dry out a bit, and away you go. I oiled my Husky 3120 filters years ago and they haven't had to be oiled since - I just blow them off with compressed air. You will find more dust and garbage builds up on the outside of the filter but at least it's not going through your engine.
> Milling our hardwoods really tests out chainsaw filters for sure  Redgum is the worst I've come across. As far as Box we only have Black Box where I live and that's bad too.



Bel-Ray Fiber Filter Oil | Bel-Ray Company, Inc

Yes, this is what I use, I use this on all my gauze-fiber type filters, it is a blue color so you can see the coverage.


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## 036Pro (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> The mesh filter was useless. I only ran the saw once while waiting for a flocked filter to arrive just to make sure it started and ran
> So yeah, even the flocked filter without oil was garbage in what we cut here...
> 
> 550XP after one tank (and before anyone asks this garbage was going straight through the filter element itself, not around it, and a lot of this was REAL dust, not wood dust)...
> ...


:msp_confused: Hi. Please send those pics to Stihl! Thanks:msp_smile:!


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## Aussie Dave (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> That's the hillbilly version  My Husky dealer told me to use filter oil on my 3120 or the warranty would be void.



Maybe but it works.I had a Husky daeler tell me recently if i bought a new saw the warranty would be void if i didnt use 25/1 :msp_smile: so i think dealers make up there own rules at times.


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## Karl Robbers (May 23, 2013)

Aussie Dave said:


> Maybe but it works.I had a Husky daeler tell me recently if i bought a new saw the warranty would be void if i didnt use 25/1 :msp_smile: so i think dealers make up there own rules at times.


I can sort of understand that. Yes, I know that 33:1 or 50:1 is the party line dependent on oil brand, but I will say this. Stuff up a mix at 50:1 and you have very little oil in the mix, stuff up 25:1 and there is a substantial safety margin. We only need to look at the number of "straight gassed" saws to see that some cannot mix fuel to save themselves. You probably are not one of them, but dealers like to cover their proverbials.
As an aside, I was told that Husqvarna had tested saws down to as little as 200:1 with no apparent effects, that's damn near straight petrol:msp_scared:
I would assume that Stihl have probably done similar.


----------



## Jet47 (May 23, 2013)

Aussie Dave said:


> Maybe but it works.I had a Husky daeler tell me recently if i bought a new saw the warranty would be void if i didnt use 25/1 :msp_smile: so i think dealers make up there own rules at times.



A dealer told my boss that since he didn't buy his mix oil from him he wouldn't warranty a 3 week old 254xp. My boss supplied saws and gear for 6 fulltime employee's.


----------



## harrygrey382 (May 23, 2013)

MCW said:


> Hi mate.
> Yeah I mean oiling the standard flocked filter. You can buy the aerosol cans of dedicated filter oil from most motorcross style bike shops.
> All they need is a quick squirt, let it dry out a bit, and away you go. I oiled my Husky 3120 filters years ago and they haven't had to be oiled since - I just blow them off with compressed air. You will find more dust and garbage builds up on the outside of the filter but at least it's not going through your engine.
> Milling our hardwoods really tests out chainsaw filters for sure  Redgum is the worst I've come across. As far as Box we only have Black Box where I live and that's bad too.





Aussie Dave said:


> Each to there own but i find the spray filter oil a messy pita.As recommended by a dealer and after receiving a letter from Husky after buying my 55 all i have ever done is to wash the filter out in two stroke mix,let it dry and away you go.Serves two purposes,cleans the filter well and the remaining oil keeps out the dust.
> I was concerened at first the petrol may damage the filter material,but i still have the original filter after 22 years and its fine.


I was actually planning a hybrid of your methods... We have bottles of filter oil for the honda TRX500s, I was planning on mixing some with some petrol, rinsing he filter, and letting it dry. How does that sound? It's thick oil and I can't think of a way of spreading it evenly and thinnly otherwise. Also, how often do you find you need to wash and re-oil?


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## MCW (May 23, 2013)

Aussie Dave said:


> Maybe but it works.I had a Husky daeler tell me recently if i bought a new saw the warranty would be void if i didnt use 25/1 :msp_smile: so i think dealers make up there own rules at times.



Hey don't stress, I've oiled filters using 2 stroke mix too  As far as the 25:1 theory my 3120 manual states that all Husky saws above 85cc should be run at 25:1. My 390XP manual doesn't say that so even Husqvarna themselves have varied opinions depending on the time of day.


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## tdi-rick (May 23, 2013)

harrygrey382 said:


> I was actually planning a hybrid of your methods... We have bottles of filter oil for the honda TRX500s, I was planning on mixing some with some petrol, rinsing he filter, and letting it dry. How does that sound? It's thick oil and I can't think of a way of spreading it evenly and thinnly otherwise. Also, how often do you find you need to wash and re-oil?



That'd work, the aerosol versions Matt and I use just have a carrier solvent that needs to evaporate or 'dry' according to the Silkolene can before you can use the machine.

I use it on everything from the Honda push mower pre-filter through the saws to the Yammy quad.

I think only engine oil had been used on the Quad filter before we got it, yuck ! it just goes everywhere.
The filter oil is tacky like bar oil so stays in place.


----------



## TK (May 23, 2013)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> It stays clean, really clean. Suck it Husky guys.



Sad thing is I see saw after saw with that gunk in the intake tract and they still blow 150+ psi. I've made it a point not to clean that part of my 550 ever just to see how long it goes. Granted I won't use my saw nearly as much as most but it will be interesting. You saw that 372 pic I posted elsewhere, clean air technology since 1995 :cool2:

I'm a fan of a positive lock type air filter, something with a screw knob of sorts. I've never been in so much of a hurry that I just have to flip that bail vs. unscrewing something..... Should be standard equipment on all saws regardless of size or market.


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## Officer's Match (May 23, 2013)

TK said:


> Sad thing is I see saw after saw with that gunk in the intake tract and they still blow 150+ psi. I've made it a point not to clean that part of my 550 ever just to see how long it goes. Granted I won't use my saw nearly as much as most but it will be interesting. You saw that 372 pic I posted elsewhere, clean air technology since 1995 :cool2:
> 
> I'm a fan of a positive lock type air filter, something with a screw knob of sorts. I've never been in so much of a hurry that I just have to flip that bail vs. unscrewing something..... Should be standard equipment on all saws regardless of size or market.




I agree TK, frankly my 441C's filtration (HD2 plus pre-separation) is easily the best of anything I've had. I do expect my 390XP's to perform similarly.


----------



## TK (May 23, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> I agree TK, frankly my 441C's filtration (HD2 plus pre-separation) is easily the best of anything I've had. I do expect my 390XP's to perform similarly.



This owner has multiple 372's and a bunch of other saws. Maintenance is when the saw doesn't run at all anymore and he brings it to me. The 390 filter performs the same at this 372 filter:


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## Karl Robbers (May 23, 2013)

I can't fault the filtration of my 394 with the high top filter at all. Then again, it should work too - a large pleated element, plenty of surface area to lower overall velocity of the air passing through and a positive clamping arrangement to seal it.
I would agree that I prefer more positive style arrangements rather than clips etc. Actually my little Echo CS 4200 has a beatuitful air cleaner for a small saw - thumb screw retained, pleated element and a good size for a small saw. 
Surely, a clip off top cover exposing the top of the saw with a thumbscrew retained element would be fast enough for anyone?
I guess different markets have differing issues - not too many Aussie saws experience carb icing or need heated handles, but our wood types and climatic conditions produce dust that Americans and Europeans never see. Unfortunately, our market is so small relatively, that an Australian spec saw will probably never be seen. Until then, filter oil and perhaps a smear of grease in the sealing area will have to do. In fact, it's not just saws that suffer. Some years ago, I had the job of retro fitting the entire Forestry Tasmania fleet of Mitsubishi Canter 4WD trucks with Donaldson Cyclopac air cleaners and all steel intake piping. This was after the entire fleet had their engines rebuilt under warranty due to being dusted. The standard air cleaner and plastic intake piping was fine in Japan, but could not handle the fine Aussie dust found offroad in logging areas.
Stihl have nailed it with HD 2 though I must admit.


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## 1Zach1 (May 31, 2013)

I didn't see this in the thread already but I apologize if it has already been posted. New brochure. It's in German so I don't know what it says, but the pictures sure look good!
http://www.stihl.de/p/media/download/de-de/prospekt_MS_261_C-M.pdf


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## deye223 (May 31, 2013)

TK said:


> I saw your 550 pic, just not the inside of the hd2 filter.





BloodOnTheIce said:


> It stays clean, really clean. Suck it Husky guys.



yep this is after 8 tanks if my memory serves correct , same filter











cheers D


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## Doug Fir (May 31, 2013)

deye223 said:


> yep this is after 8 tanks if my memory serves correct , same filter
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm, I see a BIG glob of wood dust in the lower right portion of the filter. Oh, wait...never mind! That was just something on my computer monitor. :msp_biggrin:

That's actually very impressive! 

Doug


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