# Tracked Aerial Lift



## firediver125 (Aug 17, 2011)

I was wondering if any of you guys have one of the tracked man lift? The ones that fit through gates and self level, are they worth the incredible amount of $$$ they cost? I would really like some input guys so chime in!


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## Tree Pig (Aug 17, 2011)

firediver125 said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys have one of the tracked man lift? The ones that fit through gates and self level, are they worth the incredible amount of $$$ they cost? I would really like some input guys so chime in!


 
a friend of mine had one $125k for 77 foot self leveling articulating lift. He sold the thing because he realized he could do 90% of the same work with a bucket truck for 25% of the price.


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## firediver125 (Aug 18, 2011)

What are the benefits of an articulated rather than a telescopic boom?


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

ability to go vertical so far then horizontal. go up and over things. telescopic usually has more side reach.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

firediver125 said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys have one of the tracked man lift? The ones that fit through gates and self level, are they worth the incredible amount of $$$ they cost? I would really like some input guys so chime in!


 
They could be worth the money if you needed a machine to get into tight places alot if your using it once a week i would have to say no. because you can pick up a new bucket for a little over a 100k. i looked at the spider lift for a long time but could never justify it. to much $$ when spikes are a couple hundred.

genie and nifty seem to be alot better priced over 100k for one of those things is hard to swallow when you can pick up a new 10 ton crane for not much more.


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## Blakesmaster (Aug 19, 2011)

I used a telescopic boom once, around wires, it SUCKED. If there's an obstacle in your way there's a ton of space behind it that you just can't reach with telescopic, not so with articulating. I bet a combination of the two would be the cat's ass though.

You get your Kboom yet Matt?


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> I used a telescopic boom once, around wires, it SUCKED. If there's an obstacle in your way there's a ton of space behind it that you just can't reach with telescopic, not so with articulating. I bet a combination of the two would be the cat's ass though.
> 
> You get your Kboom yet Matt?


 
2nd week of september im hoping, every time im loading wood i dream of it. put the down payment on it in june. copma promised it would be here before the people across the pond get thier mandatory vacation every year. we originally thought second week of august but that was for a basic boom. i guess when you add all the other stuff it takes longer.

ill have a total of 3 -3 1/2 months in waiting time when its all said and done. the boom is all the wait time the truck is ready to roll.


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2011)

I've been watching them for years. So far, all the previous posts seem to mirror my thoughts. 

I talked to a fellow in Kansas that has a teupen. He really liked it, and seemed to think it was just as good as any bucket truck, but a lot more versatile. Incidently, he had some bucket trucks, too, so he should be able to tell.

They have several distinct advantages: 

1. They go much higher and many more places than your average bucket truck, although they are rather lame for side-reach, compared to an over center bucket. Think dead trees in back yards!

2. They don't cost for vehicle liability insurance, and can be trailered around on a light flatbed behind a pickup. A 75' reach bucket truck will almost certainly be a CDL required truck to operate, with at least a 2k annual insurance bill, not counting damage coverage or business liability.

3. The linear extension of both the upper and lower booms gives much more maneuverability than any bucket. You can thread through the branches better, and you can get where you want to be easier, providing you are within the operating envelope of the machine. They will even outperform a smaller bucket in tight quarters, too, since none of their booms are even as long as a 50' bucket.

Disadvantages: 

1. Holy cow! Those cost way more per pound than any other large machine.
2. They are rather lame for side-reach, compared to an over center bucket.
3. They are not quite a fast as a bucket, and they certainly can't take as much abuse as a bucket. 
4. The probability of hitting your own platform base is higher (and probably more expensive) than running a bucket truck.


The only way it seems practical to own one is if you are doing a large amount of big trees in small/crowded yards, you simply have a big operation and can afford a really neat toy, or if you just plain want one bad enough to justify the expense. A small but _highly profitable_ tree removal business would do well with one, too.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> I've been watching them for years. So far, all the previous posts seem to mirror my thoughts.
> 
> I talked to a fellow in Kansas that has a teupen. He really liked it, and seemed to think it was just as good as any bucket truck, but a lot more versatile. Incidently, he had some bucket trucks, too, so he should be able to tell.
> 
> ...


 
almost every bucket truck is CDL with a forestry body from what ive experienced. my buddy bought a 26000 gvw non cdl bucket and with a full load of chips weighed in at 30,500. they do the 26000 stuff so its easier to sell trucks. when the trucks weigh 17- to 20k empty.

you can get an identicle bucket to mine at 26k when mines 33k and thier the same truck.


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2011)

Empty or loaded, how much the truck weighs has nothing to do with the CDL requirements.

26,001 gvwr requires cdl. Under that...does not.

You can take a 24,000 gvwr truck, pull a 9k gvwr trailer, license it for 36,000 lbs, fill it to the gills with wood, and then just laugh at Mr. DOT. No CDL required.

Pull a 10,001 GVWR trailer with your 3/4 ton truck; all of them empty at only 14,000lbs gross vehicle weight, and you'd better bring your medical card and the class A cdl that Mr.Dot will be asking for.


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## MarquisTree (Aug 19, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> Empty or loaded, how much the truck weighs has nothing to do with the CDL requirements.
> 
> 26,001 gvwr requires cdl. Under that...does not.
> 
> ...


 
That's not how it works, I will find some informative links and post later


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## MarquisTree (Aug 19, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> That's not how it works, I will find some informative links and post later


 
Who Needs a CDL?

The trailer needs to be over 10,001 lbs AND the combination of the gvw of the truck and trailer has to be over 26,001.

For example my 3/4 ton dodge has a gvw of 9000lbs so if I have a trailer with a gvw of 17,002 or more I need my class A, under that its just a regular license.

And registering under 26,001 and driving overweight to avoid having a cdl is not very effective, if you were to get stopped or get in an accident and they pulled the scales out, theycan go after you for a Variety of things including driving out of class

Sorry this was totally off topic but there is alot of bad info out there on this subject


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but I know the facts.

Definitions: 

26,000 GVWR= light truck
26,001 GVWR= heavy truck
10,000 GVWR= light trailer
10,001 GVWR= heavy trailer

You need a cdl if you are driving EITHER a heavy truck or a heavy trailer. If you are towing a heavy trailer, you need class a "A" cdl. If you are driving a heavy truck with a light trailer, you only need a class "B" CDL. 

My understanding is that the U.S. Federal Gov. made all the States standardize all the rules, so each state should be pretty much the same. 

Missouri regs, read here on page 2: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNETU8jnGFMYOFlpZdvAxyhPxUnAHg&cad=rjt

The actual weight of the vehicle (the GVW), has no bearing whatsoever on what kind of drivers license you are required to have. I have been down this path in other threads as AS, and those of you that take the time to look up the rules for yourself always end up admitting that I am right.

If you were driving an F-150 that was towing 2 grossly overloaded trailers for a combined gross vehicle weight of 42,000 lbs, you still would not get a citation for "No CDL". You would still be in a lot of trouble.

Surprisingly, there is no law against exceeding the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. You can get an over-weight ticket 5 ways: Exceed licensed weight, posted weight, axle weight rating, tire weight rating, and the infamous but seldom ticketed "Bridge Law". You can't get a ticket for exceeding GVWR. In fact, I used to routinely purchase overweight permits that clearly exceeded the GVWR of my truck.


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## Toddppm (Aug 19, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> Surprisingly, there is no law against exceeding the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. You can get an over-weight ticket 5 ways: Exceed licensed weight, posted weight, axle weight rating, tire weight rating, and the infamous but seldom ticketed "Bridge Law". You can't get a ticket for exceeding GVWR. In fact, I used to routinely purchase overweight permits that clearly exceeded the GVWR of my truck.


 
Not sure I understand this part? Exceeding licensed weight is not an over the gvwr ticket? Licensed weight of what, the vehicle or drivers license? 
1 of my guys got an overweight ticket in the spring, was sweating that up until the court date and only got a $40 ticket. Not a cdl truck though.
Was looking online for info on what the charges would be and could only find big time fines for cdl drivers, I wasn't going to ask any questions with a $40 ticket.


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> Who Needs a CDL?
> 
> The trailer needs to be over 10,001 lbs *10,000. but why quibble over a pound?*AND the combination of the gvw of the truck and trailer has to be over 26,001. *No! Not at all! Just read the document that you cited for the answer!*
> 
> ...



The poorly written reference you cited confirms my statements:

_"If you have a truck that is 26,000 lbs. and hook it to trailer that is exactly 10,000 lbs. rated....do you need a CDL? NO!!
Why? Because neither of the vehicles exceed the "1" lb. even though they are over the 26,000!!"
 
_

And with that note, I'll say no more on the topic.


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2011)

Toddppm said:


> Not sure I understand this part? Exceeding licensed weight is not an over the gvwr ticket? Licensed weight of what, the vehicle or drivers license? ...


 
Neither. The GVWR is assigned to a vehicle by the manufacturer, and is not a license of any sort. Since it is not issued by the state, they can't give you a ticket for exceeding it. The CDL requirements only reference the RATED weight of a vehicle, not how much it tips the scale at. 

You get an overweight ticket for actually weighing too much, and you get a drivers violation for driving a vehicle rating outside your license.

I suppose that any chump can read the weight rating of the vehicle they are driving, and they cannot be held accountable for not actually knowing what it weighs. If you passed the CDL license, you are presumed to be an expert driver, and then you are supposed to know what the truck weighs. Legal stuff...needs a lawyer to justify it.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> Neither. The GVWR is assigned to a vehicle by the manufacturer, and is not a license of any sort. Since it is not issued by the state, they can't give you a ticket for exceeding it. The CDL requirements only reference the RATED weight of a vehicle, not how much it tips the scale at.
> 
> You get an overweight ticket for actually weighing too much, and you get a drivers violation for driving a vehicle rating outside your license.
> 
> I suppose that any chump can read the weight rating of the vehicle they are driving, and they cannot be held accountable for not actually knowing what it weighs. If you passed the CDL license, you are presumed to be an expert driver, and then you are supposed to know what the truck weighs. Legal stuff...needs a lawyer to justify it.



what i was trying to say was if your bucket is stamped at 26000. and your hauling 30000 they fine you up to a dollar a pound that your over and then you gotta get the weight off the vehicle before you can move it.

thats why i was saying i dont know why they even stamp forestry bodies at 26000 because thier overloaded with half a load of chips in them.


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## lxt (Aug 19, 2011)

The CDL issue can be resolved by looking in your FMCSR.........BTW. I have a 25,000 registered dump with Air brakes.....you better in the state of PA have atleast a class B with air endorsement, funny, how on my registration application there is a box to check stating that your vehicle is a motor carrier vehicle!!! Guess what.........over 17,000 is a motor carrier vehicle & no regular inspection station can inspect it!!

BTW........if you are in a 3/4 ton pick up & you have a trailer @ 10,001....you better have a class A & Med card. weight does mean the world for a CDL...........you can be under gross weight but over on your axle weight....especially in a bucket truck full of chips!

Oh, whatever you do................dont laugh @ Mr. DOT.....He can & will find something wrong, then you`re gonna pay!



LXT...................


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## tree MDS (Aug 19, 2011)

lxt said:


> The CDL issue can be resolved by looking in your FMCSR.........BTW. I have a 25,000 registered dump with Air brakes.....you better in the state of PA have atleast a class B with air endorsement, funny, how on my registration application there is a box to check stating that your vehicle is a motor carrier vehicle!!! Guess what.........over 17,000 is a motor carrier vehicle & no regular inspection station can inspect it!!
> 
> BTW........if you are in a 3/4 ton pick up & you have a trailer @ 10,001....you better have a class A & Med card. weight does mean the world for a CDL...........you can be under gross weight but over on your axle weight....especially in a bucket truck full of chips!
> 
> ...


 
No air brake endorsement is required in ct on underweight trucks equiped with air brakes. Regular license is all.

Trailers over 10k, with no cdl, would have a problem! 

Still wouldn't wanna make a habit out of running around over weight though!!


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## husabud (Aug 19, 2011)

So how about that tracked Aerial lift? Who really gives a #### about CDL or non CDL. I am willing to bet nearly all of us have broken the cdl laws.


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## MarquisTree (Aug 19, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but I know the facts.
> 
> Definitions:
> 
> ...



I am finding this very hard to respond to, not sure what part your having trouble with... I think you are completely missing how the CDL requirements are written.
Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration 

the combination of the truck and trailer's gvw's must exceed 26,001 AND the trailer must be over 10,001 for it to be a class A.

I am not sure why you are having trouble understanding this one, its very clearly explained in both of the links i have posted. I have also discussed the issue with DOT officer’s during a voluntary inspection. 

The operating in excess of rated capacity issue. I have not found a useful link to post (I have already wasted too much time on this issue) The Overweight permits we use say very clearly all over them "not to exceed rated capacity of vehicle", not sure what your permits look like but that’s what the MA and NH permits say. Regardless running trucks rated capacity is not a good solution to getting a CDL, that was my point. I have been an accident where DOT was weighing the truck and trailer (1ton pulling a bobcat trailer) to see if they were overweight enough to warrant an out of class ticket. I was a passenger in the truck and this is what the DOT officers explained to me. I will find out more tomorrow, I should be able to get the statutes numbers the refer to this issue from a DOT officer I know.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

husabud said:


> So how about that tracked Aerial lift? Who really gives a #### about CDL or non CDL. I am willing to bet nearly all of us have broken the cdl laws.


 
if your towing it on a trailer most of the ones i seen that where worth having would require a CDL to tow. the lifts weight 7 to 8k including a trialer i have a Foster trailer with 20 feet of deck that with 7k on it would weigh in at over 10k so its Class A CDL.

the only ones i noticed that where under where the trailer mounted models. enless you want a 40 foot lift.

spider lift 23gt weighs in around 7k

it only takes a few hours out of your life not hard to get. i took a class A in a 5 ton dump with a 12k gvw trailer on the back.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 19, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> No air brake endorsement is required in ct on underweight trucks equiped with air brakes. Regular license is all.
> 
> Trailers over 10k, with no cdl, would have a problem!
> 
> Still wouldn't wanna make a habit out of running around over weight though!!


 
In pa i have been put on scales a few times in pittsburgh and in MT. Lebanon. i would be broke by now with fines if we ran illegale.

They put my f-550 on scales a 5 ton dump with a gvw of like 21k not 100% sure on the gvw but they weighed it to see if it was over.


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## pdqdl (Aug 20, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> the combination of the truck and trailer's gvw's must exceed 26,001 AND the trailer must be over 10,001 for it to be a class A.


 
Damn. I said I wasn't going to say anymore but here I am. *You were right!*



But Thank YOU for bringing this to my attention! Apparently the rules have been re-written, and I am going to track down and pull over the first KCPD DOT officer I can find. Maybe Missouri was forced by the feds to come into compliance by the feds. 

We do their tree work at where they park their trucks, and I am going to get to the bottom of this. You see, I have paid MANY tickets for letting one of my guys pull our over 10k trailer with an under 26k truck. So...I have some training to do for some DOT guys.




MarquisTree said:


> ... Regardless running trucks rated capacity is not a good solution to getting a CDL, that was my point. ...



No argument from me there.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 20, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> ability to go vertical so far then horizontal. go up and over things. telescopic usually has more side reach.


 
The tele, or squirt boom, is usefull on removals, but sucks for general trim work.

I client/buddy has a 100ft Teupen that is awesome on big removals. I've used in in old oak deadwooding, and it is impractical to not be able to move around limbs.


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## FatMax (Sep 7, 2011)

I just wanted to add that there is no such thing as an air brake endorsement on a CDL in the states.


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## mattfr12 (Sep 8, 2011)

FatMax said:


> I just wanted to add that there is no such thing as an air brake endorsement on a CDL in the states.


 
yes sir its a seperate test and the whole nine yards. you can have a CDL without the airbrake endorsment they make trucks over 26k without air brakes. Seperate part of your driving test also when i took mine i had to go over them with the instructor.

if i remember correctly CDL written test is 50 questions

air brakes is 25 question test.


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## FatMax (Sep 8, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> yes sir



Nope, sorry but you are mistaken.



> you can have a CDL without the airbrake endorsment they make trucks over 26k without air brakes..


 
All CDLs are without an air brake endorsement, because there is no such thing.

You can however have an air brake restriction.


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## mattfr12 (Sep 8, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Nope, sorry but you are mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
well ill agree with that thier is no stamp on the front of the license like a tanker or hazmat. On the back of my license i see where it says restrictions. i think thats what everyone means when they say endorsment, thier just refering to them having passed the air brake test.


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## Frank Boyer (Sep 8, 2011)

My CLD shows:
Class A
Endors T
I took the air brake test and the T is for triples. I thought that there was an air brake endorsment on my license. I took the test in the early 80's and it may have been on then.
I guess that Class A includes air brakes.
10,001 BBQ's require a CDL. A friend builds pits in Houston and has to get them weighed and over 10,001 requires a CDL.


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## Grace Tree (Sep 8, 2011)

Frank Boyer said:


> My CLD shows:
> Class A
> Endors T
> I took the air brake test and the T is for triples. I thought that there was an air brake endorsment on my license. I took the test in the early 80's and it may have been on then.
> ...


 
Yes, air brakes were originally a separate test and endorsement. I guess that's no longer true.
Phil


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## FatMax (Sep 8, 2011)

Frank Boyer said:


> My CLD shows:
> Class A
> Endors T
> I took the air brake test and the T is for triples. I thought that there was an air brake endorsment on my license. I took the test in the early 80's and it may have been on then.
> ...


 
All CDLs incluide air brakes unless it has a restriction.

Trailers over 10k alone do NOT require a CDL.

Now if he is pulling them with a truck that has a GVWR of 16k - 26k then being over or under 10k with the trailer would determine if he needs a CDL or not. Actual weight still doesn't make a difffference here as it goes by GVWR.

TxDPS - CVE Commercial Driver License Classifications


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## FatMax (Sep 8, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> Yes, air brakes were originally a separate test and endorsement. I guess that's no longer true.
> Phil


 
It's still a seperate test.


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## lxt (Sep 8, 2011)

Originally the air brake was an endorsement.....then they put that fancy barcode on the back of the license & it became restrictions with */* beside it........meaning none! 

The early CDL`s had alot of the alphabet on there & was confusing to some in law enforcement.......these codes found in the FMCSR were not usually in the hands of mr. local policeman........so now you got restrictions & endorsements, A, M, T, N, X.....& so on!

Now, the tracked or towable lifts.......I had a thread called "pros & cons" not sure if it is still on here, but it had alot of good info!!!



LXT..............


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## FatMax (Sep 9, 2011)

lxt said:


> ........so now you got restrictions & endorsements, A, M, T, N, X.....& so on!.


 
There is no A or M endorsement or restriction.


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## lxt (Sep 9, 2011)

FatMax said:


> There is no A or M endorsement or restriction.


 
These all use to be endorsements............A & M are class....the rest are endorsements, the early CDL showed everything as an endorsement......I just forgot to mention (class).

below the endorsement is the restriction......if none then */*, also on the back of the license depending on state right below class is RST: "which is where written restrictions would show up, such as corrective lenses required & so on"

well enough with the CDL...........feel like Im back teaching orientation for truck drivers!!!



LXT............


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## FatMax (Sep 9, 2011)

lxt said:


> These all use to be endorsements............A & M are class....the rest are endorsements, the early CDL showed everything as an endorsement......I just forgot to mention (class).
> 
> below the endorsement is the restriction......if none then */*, also on the back of the license depending on state right below class is RST: "which is where written restrictions would show up, such as corrective lenses required & so on"
> 
> ...


 
Says the guy that thinks you need a CDL for a trailer over 10k GVWR and a 3/4 ton pickup.


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## mckeetree (Sep 9, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Says the guy that thinks you need a CDL for a trailer over 10k GVWR and a 3/4 ton pickup.


 
I have never seen so many guys so mixed up about what you need a CDL for. When I got mine 30 years ago it was a pretty cut and dried deal and still is. It is all in the little study book they give you.


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## lxt (Sep 9, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Says the guy that thinks you need a CDL for a trailer over 10k GVWR and a 3/4 ton pickup.


 
Well come to PA hauling your >10,001 trailer with your 3/4 ton pickup......with your class B or better yet....your class C.....Mr.DOT will love you ............you might wanna read your federal motor carrier regs uhh?

30 yr CDL..............WTF, the commercial drivers license here wasnt put into play untill the early 90`s......I remember when truckers could have multiple licenses from many different states...............unless fattymax re-wrote the laws back in 78 LOL



LXT...............


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## lxt (Sep 9, 2011)

what I think... is that some get confused on combination vehicle vs trailer laden/unladen? in my state you better be registered as a combination vehicle with that >10,001 trailer..............the weight of the tractor doesnt matter, its what weight you cannot exceed with both units together..........& even with that you can still be under on gross weight but over on axle weight.....

However...........Fatmax will probably disagree as he probably doesnt think you need a Med Card or a written pre trip/post trip inspection either...........funny how I just went through a mandatory DOT audit & was compliant on every aspect....thank god......but hey what do I know, someone a few states away will be sure to explain my states laws to me..... Yep, dot number, motor carrier number, road tax sticker.......dont need any of that crap either uhh? LMFAO.......

See the top post with frank boyer quoted........his buddy builds BBQ pits & over 10,001 needs CDL....Hmm guess Im not the only one who`s state requires such???


LXT.................


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## FatMax (Sep 9, 2011)

lxt said:


> you might wanna read your federal motor carrier regs uhh?


 
You really ought to read them yourself. :msp_smile:



> Question 2: Is a driver of a combination vehicle with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of less than 26,001 pounds required to obtain a CDL even if the trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is more than 10,000 pounds?
> 
> Guidance: No, because the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is less than 26,001 pounds.



Interpretation for 383.91: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Maybe you would share where it says in PA you need a CDL for a trailer over 10k and a pickup?

While you are at it maybe you could show as ell where it says you need a CDL class B for an under CDL truck with air brakes?


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## FatMax (Sep 9, 2011)

lxt said:


> However...........Fatmax will probably disagree as he probably doesnt think you need a Med Card or a written pre trip/post trip inspection either...........funny how I just went through a mandatory DOT audit & was compliant on every aspect....thank god......but hey what do I know, someone a few states away will be sure to explain my states laws to me..... Yep, dot number, motor carrier number, road tax sticker.......dont need any of that crap either uhh? LMFAO.......



Depends on the situation. Some or none of that will be needed.



> See the top post with frank boyer quoted........his buddy builds BBQ pits & over 10,001 needs CDL....Hmm guess Im not the only one who`s state requires such??


 
I guess you failed to read my post or check the link I gave to the TX DPS? eh?


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## FatMax (Sep 9, 2011)

lxt said:


> Well come to PA hauling your >10,001 trailer with your 3/4 ton pickup......with your class B or better yet....your class C.....Mr.DOT will love you ............you might wanna read your federal motor carrier regs uhh?


 
Some more reading you must have missed.

Even _IF_ PA required a CDL for my 3/4 ton and 10k plus trailer they can't enforce their regualtions on me.



> Question 3: Can a State which expands the vehicle group descriptions in §383.91 enforce those expansions on out-of-State Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) drivers by requiring them to have a CDL?
> 
> Guidance: No. They must recognize out-of-State licenses that have been validly issued in accordance with the Federal standards and operative licensing compacts.



Interpretation for 383.91: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


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## mattfr12 (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> You really ought to read them yourself. :msp_smile:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Any trailer over 10k requires a class A CDL doesnt matter what you pull it with 10,001 pounds class A its very clearly stated even on the back of your drivers license.

it says 26000 > wich means you can drive a vehicle over 26k

and 10000< wich means you cant tow a trialer over 10k


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 10, 2011)

I think there may have been some major changes recently in cdl laws as I had a very long "discussion" with my brother last week before testing for my cdl. These are the rules straight from the book.








So yes, you can drive an air brake truck if the gvwr is under 26,001 and you do not need a cdl for a 10,001 or bigger trailer if your combination weight rating is under 26,001. Seems pretty cut and dry. I'd have to do more research to see how it varies state to state but I remember reading somewhere that the rules had been consolidated Federally to help lesson the confusion amongst DOT officers and policemen...and obviously cdl drivers.

I have a cdl B with air brake restriction so I can drive my air brake chip truck because it's rated at 24,500 and my hydraulic brake bucket rated at 31,000. I can pull my 16,000 lb trailer with either my 1 ton pickup or my chip truck but not with my bucket.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> All CDLs incluide air brakes unless it has a restriction.
> 
> Trailers over 10k alone do NOT require a CDL.
> 
> ...


 
Nope. a class b or under doesn't auto assume air brakes. Class A does.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

lxt said:


> Well come to PA hauling your >10,001 trailer with your 3/4 ton pickup......with your class B or better yet....your class C.....Mr.DOT will love you ............you might wanna read your federal motor carrier regs uhh?
> 
> 30 yr CDL..............WTF, the commercial drivers license here wasnt put into play untill the early 90`s......I remember when truckers could have multiple licenses from many different states...............unless fattymax re-wrote the laws back in 78 LOL
> 
> ...


 
If you read the current regs, you'd know you don't need a cdl to haul a 10001 trailer if you're pulling it with an under cdl rig.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 10, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> Nope. a class b or under doesn't auto assume air brakes. Class A does.


 
Air brakes are no longer an endorsement so yes, a regular cdl includes air brakes. If you tested in a truck without air brakes you don't have a regular cdl. You have one like mine, with a restriction.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> Air brakes are no longer an endorsement so yes, a regular cdl includes air brakes. If you tested in a truck without air brakes you don't have a regular cdl. You have one like mine, with a restriction.


 
A/B's on a class B is an endorsement. I have my CDL that i can scan that says so, it adds A/B onto the permit, does not restrict use of A/B unless the permit doesn't have the "endorsement". I have both actually, a B permit, and an A. Now Chris, what I am not positive of here is the terms "endorsement" and "restriction". So the way you worded it above could very well be correct in your state, but it means the same universally, but it comes down to terminology, and not application.


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## husabud (Sep 10, 2011)

All you guys have good points. Some of them are wrong some not. Why don't you change the thread title to "Does anybody know if I need a CDL?" The OP asked about a Tracked Aerial Lift. Yes the OP will probably need a CDL to transport it which is a good point, but it is not what he asked. Is it worth the $$$$?


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> Any trailer over 10k requires a class A CDL.


 
No. It doesn't. Geez.


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> I think there may have been some major changes recently in cdl laws as I had a very long "discussion" with my brother last week before testing for my cdl. These are the rules straight from the book.


 
It has been the same since about '92.



Blakesmaster said:


> I have a cdl B with air brake restriction so I can drive my air brake chip truck because it's rated at 24,500 and my hydraulic brake bucket rated at 31,000. I can pull my 16,000 lb trailer with either my 1 ton pickup or my chip truck but not with my bucket.


 
Your trailer plus chip truck requires a class A. Probably with the one ton as well.


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> Nope. a class b or under doesn't auto assume air brakes. Class A does.


 
Class A doesn't assume anything. All the class of CDL are the same when it comes to air brakes. All the classes can be had with or without the air brake restriction.


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> If you read the current regs, you'd know you don't need a cdl to haul a 10001 trailer if you're pulling it with an under cdl rig.


 
Wow now just wait a minute. Over 10k trailer _CAN _require a CDL if the CGVWR is ove 26k. _If _you read the current regs _you _would know this.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

husabud said:


> All you guys have good points. Some of them are wrong some not. Why don't you change the thread title to "Does anybody know if I need a CDL?" The OP asked about a Tracked Aerial Lift. Yes the OP will probably need a CDL to transport it which is a good point, but it is not what he asked. Is it worth the $$$$?


 
LOL, true. I didn't even look at the first post. Just clicked and saw this discussion.....


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

husabud said:


> All you guys have good points. Some of them are wrong some not. Why don't you change the thread title to "Does anybody know if I need a CDL?" The OP asked about a Tracked Aerial Lift. Yes the OP will probably need a CDL to transport it which is a good point, but it is not what he asked. Is it worth the $$$$?


 
How is your comment any less OT then anyone elses?


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Wow now just wait a minute. Over 10k trailer _CAN _require a CDL if the CGVWR is ove 26k. _If _you read the current regs _you _would know this.


 
Correct. I was writting in regards to the 3/4 ton pick up truck from the original post, and I got a bit off track. Thanks for the catch, I really dislike posting bad info.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> All the class of CDL are the same when it comes to air brakes. All the classes can be had with or without the air brake endorsement.


 
Ok, DOT cop. You're right again. Damn it. Although it's STUPID to go through all that trouble and not get an A/B endorsement.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> How is your comment any less OT then anyone elses?


 
Well, he was just trying to steer the convo back to the original topic.


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## husabud (Sep 10, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> Well, he was just trying to steer the convo back to the original topic.


 
Thank You.


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> Ok, DOT cop. You're right again. Damn it. Although it's STUPID to go through all that trouble and not get an A/B endorsement.


 
It's not stupid to not get one seeing how you CAN"T get one.

Why worry about having an air brake restriction if you don't need to drive a CMV with air brakes?


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Your trailer plus chip truck requires a class A. Probably with the one ton as well.



Dammit. You're right. Can't quite figure out my line of thinking there. Thanks. Means I should be able to hook up to that trailer w/ my chip truck and get my A with airbrakes though, right?


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> Dammit. You're right. Can't quite figure out my line of thinking there. Thanks. Means I should be able to hook up to that trailer w/ my chip truck and get my A with airbrakes though, right?


 
Yes Sir.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Yes Sir.


 
Any idea what to do if the gcwr is not written on the truck? I looked the other day, neither my 1 ton or chip truck have them. 1 ton doesn't even have a gvwr on it.


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> Any idea what to do if the gcwr is not written on the truck? I looked the other day, neither my 1 ton or chip truck have them. 1 ton doesn't even have a gvwr on it.


 
That particular GCWR means nothing anyway so don't worry aboot it.

GVWR of the one ton should be able to be found with the VIN at a dealer. I won't matter either though because the DOT will know it is plenty big with a 16k trailer to require a Class A.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 10, 2011)

FatMax said:


> That particular GCWR means nothing anyway so don't worry aboot it.
> 
> GVWR of the one ton should be able to be found with the VIN at a dealer. I won't matter either though because the DOT will know it is plenty big with a 16k trailer to require a Class A.


 
How does it mean nothing? ...if you wouldn't mind. If my gcwr is lower than the gvwr of truck and a 16K trailor...well, seems that spells trouble. FWIW I don't mind skirting the law a bit but it'd be nice to know if and how I am in compliance.


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> How does it mean nothing? ...if you wouldn't mind. If my gcwr is lower than the gvwr of truck and a 16K trailor...well, seems that spells trouble. FWIW I don't mind skirting the law a bit but it'd be nice to know if and how I am in compliance.


 
It means nothing in reference to the CDL issue.

Otherwise my take on it is that it sin't a leagal rating.:msp_unsure:


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## lxt (Sep 10, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> If you read the current regs, you'd know you don't need a cdl to haul a 10001 trailer if you're pulling it with an under cdl rig.


 

Thats funny, during my DOT audit I asked Mr. PA DOT about this & ........His exact words " can be subject to interpretation, I pull you over in your pick up with your 12,000 gvwr trailer attached to it & you have no CDL A.......Red Tag & Tow....Driver" & his final laugh............internet uhh? let me know when those guys come to PA so I can retire!!!


IDK...........it doesnt matter to me, I have my CDL-A with no restrictions & all endorsements & my stuff is compliant.........so no citations!!!! thank god!!!


LXT..............


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## lxt (Sep 10, 2011)

whoever said you dont need airbrakes for under CDL & mentioned <26001 is way wrong.............better read what makes you motor carrier designated!! this is where some get in trouble with thinking the FMCSR is the only LAW......

My rig is 25,000gvwr with airbrake & believe me...........I better not have an airbrake restriction, I also had to do the in cab brake test for the auditor along with go through the pretrip for the slack adjuster section of the truck!!! fail this in the field & they can literally make you recertify for that portion!! 

heres the short of it.............I know im fully compliant & have the Commonwealths slip to show it, I know what I was told.....& im inclined to believe the guy with the badge, we can debate forever whats....what, more than anything just be safe & stay healthy!



LXT...............


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## FatMax (Sep 10, 2011)

lxt said:


> Thats funny, during my DOT audit I asked Mr. PA DOT about this & ........His exact words " can be subject to interpretation, I pull you over in your pick up with your 12,000 gvwr trailer attached to it & you have no CDL A.......Red Tag & Tow....Driver" & his final laugh............internet uhh? let me know when those guys come to PA so I can retire!!!
> 
> 
> IDK...........it doesnt matter to me, I have my CDL-A with no restrictions & all endorsements & my stuff is compliant.........so no citations!!!! thank god!!!
> ...


 


lxt said:


> whoever said you dont need airbrakes for under CDL & mentioned <26001 is way wrong.............better read what makes you motor carrier designated!! this is where some get in trouble with thinking the FMCSR is the only LAW......
> 
> My rig is 25,000gvwr with airbrake & believe me...........I better not have an airbrake restriction, I also had to do the in cab brake test for the auditor along with go through the pretrip for the slack adjuster section of the truck!!! fail this in the field & they can literally make you recertify for that portion!!
> 
> ...


 
Typical. You have no clue as to what the law is but will come one here and pretend you do.

Show us where these "regualtions" are.

Sorry but you truly have no clue.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2011)

lxt said:


> Thats funny, during my DOT audit I asked Mr. PA DOT about this & ........His exact words " can be subject to interpretation, I pull you over in your pick up with your 12,000 gvwr trailer attached to it & you have no CDL A.......Red Tag & Tow....Driver" & his final laugh............internet uhh? let me know when those guys come to PA so I can retire!!!
> 
> 
> IDK...........it doesnt matter to me, I have my CDL-A with no restrictions & all endorsements & my stuff is compliant.........so no citations!!!! thank god!!!
> ...


 
I drove a 54K log truck through there in Feb with false plates and blew by every weigh station from pipersville to the border. Your douche dot friend sucks at life, and he can suck a fat dik when he pulls me over next time I'm there with a 3/4 and a 12K trailer and tries to tow me, hell, I won't even show him that I have a class A.  I'll fly my lawyer there to put a whole new meaning to public service for your PA dot douche pal who likes to "interpret" the rules. That's for judges, not LEO


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## lxt (Sep 11, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Typical. You have no clue as to what the law is but will come one here and pretend you do.
> 
> Show us where these "regualtions" are.
> 
> Sorry but you truly have no clue.


 

I have to wonder if you are AA??.........well chubbymax: certification of safety inspection for motor carrier vehicle:

(1) A truck or Truck Tractor having a GVWR, Gross combination(Gcwr), registered gross weight or registered combination weight of 17,001 pounds or more!!

Ya know the GCWR you said legally means nothing.....WRONG!!!

(2) A truck or truck tractor engaged in interstate commerce & having a gvwr of 10,001 or more......Key here is INTERSTATE!! but you Im sure will dispute that!!! technically this section would not apply to most of us, unless we are working outta state.............!


So the way I read it buckaroo is my f-250 GVWR is 10,000 Gvwr & my trailer is 12,000 GVWR = 22,000 GCWR.....Guess what, I am technically a combination vehicle & therefore I Need a Class A........... I didnt write this stuff & beings you think you know what the laws in PA are.....maybe you should come here & apply for a DOT position, My brother in law is State Police & by what is in his Code & stated to me....thats what I follow & any good CDL driver who has been on the road knows: "_the rules are subject to interpretation_" Like I said................there are more law references than you have, that is the drivers job to obtain & know!!


LXT.................. geez, I guess that DOT audit should a been done by fatmax......should crown him US dept of all knowing DOT Regs! LOL


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## lxt (Sep 11, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> I drove a 54K log truck through there in Feb with false plates and blew by every weigh station from pipersville to the border. Your douche dot friend sucks at life, and he can suck a fat dik when he pulls me over next time I'm there with a 3/4 and a 12K trailer and tries to tow me, hell, I won't even show him that I have a class A.  I'll fly my lawyer there to put a whole new meaning to public service for your PA dot douche pal who likes to "interpret" the rules. That's for judges, not LEO


 
You`re too funny..............everyone is a bad man on the internet & knows everything & I doubt you blew off the scale houses..............Please, false plates & the rest of what you said??????????? & to fly in a lawyer....you dont make that much if you`re driving a Lil 54K log truck...............!



LXT....................Hey I didnt write the stuff I just adhere to it!


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## TreeAce (Sep 11, 2011)

this thread belongs in the de-rail hall of fame


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## lxt (Sep 11, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> I drove a 54K log truck through there in Feb with false plates and blew by every weigh station from pipersville to the border. Your douche dot friend sucks at life, and he can suck a fat dik when he pulls me over next time I'm there with a 3/4 and a 12K trailer and tries to tow me, hell, I won't even show him that I have a class A.  I'll fly my lawyer there to put a whole new meaning to public service for your PA dot douche pal who likes to "interpret" the rules. That's for judges, not LEO


 

Ha.....well Mr. Internet Badazz why dont you post the name of that motor carrier/Logging company that doesnt have enough money to buy legal plates (& you gonna fly in an Atty.) LOL,.........so I can pass that info off to that douche as you put it? Im sure he`ll love to know you`re gonna tell him what to suk!! please put up that info Badazz!!! Im sure the threat of a driver running completely illegal "as stated" to fly in his lawyer will just scare the hell outta em.........LMFAO, c`mon...post it!!!



LXT..............


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## lxt (Sep 11, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> this thread belongs in the de-rail hall of fame


 
It does!!! geez, I wasnt looking for an arguement, just stating what ive read & been told!!!! if Im wrong?.....then I have cautioned on being safe...didnt know that was a bad thing!



LXT.............


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## beowulf343 (Sep 11, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> I drove a 54K log truck through there in Feb with false plates and blew by every weigh station from pipersville to the border.



I'm not in pa every day like lxt, but we are down there a lot. The thing is, Pennsylvania's only permanent weigh station is at Clarion, if i remember correctly, all the rest are portables. So it is possible to get through pa without ever hitting a weigh station, but there have been times i've had to go through three weigh stations. Just depends on where they are set up. You got lucky, i can say from experience that if you "blow" by a weigh station that has the sign out to exit, they will chase you down.


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## TreeAce (Sep 11, 2011)

lxt said:


> It does!!! geez, I wasnt looking for an arguement, just stating what ive read & been told!!!! if Im wrong?.....then I have cautioned on being safe...didnt know that was a bad thing!
> 
> 
> 
> LXT.............


 
No argument with me :msp_wink: In fact I need to learn more about CDL. I should get one soon. I am gonna have to (pretty much) inorder to grow my business. However, I am also very interested in tracked lifts. I believe they are up n coming in the industry. Of course they will have limits and draw backs. I dont think it will matter for me anytime soon cuz I doubt I could get the credit for somthing that expensive. But...I still gotta wonder...I maybe surprised what I could get. And as far as CDL goes....I think about this to...If I have a bucket thats CDL, I will PROBLY be the only person with a CDL (that I dont have yet). Its hard enough to find decent/good help with a damn DL let alone a CDL!! If I had a lift ....well...now i can get that from point A to B with a 3/4 ton pick up. Or my dump truck. Just some stuff I been thinking of.


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## FatMax (Sep 11, 2011)

lxt said:


> I have to wonder if you are AA??.........well chubbymax: certification of safety inspection for motor carrier vehicle:
> 
> (1) A truck or Truck Tractor having a GVWR, Gross combination(Gcwr), registered gross weight or registered combination weight of 17,001 pounds or more!!
> 
> ...


 
Another post of yours that proves that you truly have no clue. Really it only continues to prove your ignorance of the subject.

Again I ask if you bothered to read the regulation that I posted that was quoted directly from the FMCSR that you seem to think you know?

Why can't you post where the regualtion is that say you need CDL for a trailer over 10k GVWR? or that you need a CDL B for a 25k truck with air brakes? 

You can't because no such regualtion exists.

Your quoes about 17k and interstate 10k have NOTHING to do with CDls. _IF_ you would have read the FMCSR you would know this.

ps I guess you don't understand what GCWR I was speaking of as well. The fact that you have a CDL is done right scary.


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## lxt (Sep 11, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Another post of yours that proves that you truly have no clue. Really it only continues to prove your ignorance of the subject.
> 
> Again I ask if you bothered to read the regulation that I posted that was quoted directly from the FMCSR that you seem to think you know?
> 
> ...


 


LOL........you are funny & whats sad is you give just enough truth in what you say while thinking it to be gospel that you are dangerous............ok another try Idiot.......the section you will want to view is called: safety inspection for motor carrier............oh thats right this is a DOT officers publication & one could prolly find it @ your local dept of transportation!

Does everyone notice I only refer to my state.......while fatmax thinks he is the law in all states, By the way............you need to re-visit GCWR (gross combination weight rating) cause the info you gave on here about it not being needed is a LIE!!!!!!

Im scary??? LOL, the fact you give wrong info & some on here may follow your worthless prattle is what is scary.......So tell us about your background pertaining to driving in PA..! cause...............I just went through an audit, just sent in my registration & am Looking at it now...Form MV-105-MCTSC & right on there ball bag is section #5 telling you what is what & asking you to check a box verifying that your vehicle is inspected...............my truck gets inspected twice a year!!! 

what do you drive? what class license do you have?..............while you might give worthless advice that dances around the form of legality..............I give it from experience, its clear you have never been OTR or pulled over by DOT, picked apart @ the scale house, etc... or you would have better insight than thinking you know all the rules from your lil JJ keller publication!!

technically for a 25,000 gvwr truck you only need a class c with no airbrake restriction good luck on getting that cause if im not mistaken you must apply for a class B in order to sit the exam for airbrakes in PA....However, even if so, you now have a class c "Commercial Drivers License"...........I see where you told someone that why worry unless you are gonna drive CMV........whats sad with your goofy impotent statement is that once you have a CDL..........you are commercial 24/7 & even in your own private vehicle you will be treated like you`re in a CMV..........look at the breathalizer test limit for those with CDL`s......even in the family yugo you better not be over .04 in PA .08 for non CDL..............well officer..Im in a PMV (private motor vehicle) LMFAO you cant fine me pertaining to CDL regulations cause Fatmax from arboristsite said so........LMFAO

And finally............I know you will have something to come back with cause HELL.............you are the CDL/DOT god wanna be & nothing you say is wrong..............what you driving again? you an OTR driver?............Nah didnt think so!

guys......before listening to this nut pump, go to your state driver center & get the truck drivers handbook, Fmcsr & state motor carrier laws & safety inspection pamphlet if they have it & then you will know what your state requires!!! Im done with this jack wagon!!



LXT...............


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 11, 2011)

lxt said:


> LOL........you are funny & whats sad is you give just enough truth in what you say while thinking it to be gospel that you are dangerous............ok another try Idiot.......the section you will want to view is called: safety inspection for motor carrier............oh thats right this is a DOT officers publication & one could prolly find it @ your local dept of transportation!
> 
> Does everyone notice I only refer to my state.......while fatmax thinks he is the law in all states, By the way............you need to re-visit GCWR (gross combination weight rating) cause the info you gave on here about it not being needed is a LIE!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
\
Actually, LXT the stuff in my CMV handbook is lining up exactly with what Fatmax is saying. I posted a pic earlier of the guidelines. I called the CDL specialty line and talked to an operator that told me the exact same thing about my 24,500 chip truck with air brakes. I double checked with the guy testing me in my bucket. Told me I couldn't get my cdl with my chip truck, i didn't need one to drive it. Fatmax seems to be backing up his statements with references with online info which also aligns with the book in front of me. Where are you getting your info? Like you said, you're just some guy on the internet.


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## FatMax (Sep 11, 2011)

lxt said:


> LOL........you are funny & whats sad is you give just enough truth in what you say while thinking it to be gospel that you are dangerous............ok another try Idiot.......the section you will want to view is called: safety inspection for motor carrier............oh thats right this is a DOT officers publication & one could prolly find it @ your local dept of transportation!



No offense but you are a little slow aren't you? Maybe illiterate as well?

You are mixing two completly different sections of the reguations when you talk about 17k and safety inspections. If you would read and understand the regulations you would know the difference.



> Does everyone notice I only refer to my state.......while fatmax thinks he is the law in all states, By the way............you need to re-visit GCWR (gross combination weight rating) cause the info you gave on here about it not being needed is a LIE!!!!!!



Like I already said. When talking about CDLs that particualr GCWR is meaningless.

If you are only talking about your state why do you keep bringing up the FMCSR?



> Im scary??? LOL, the fact you give wrong info & some on here may follow your worthless prattle is what is scary.......So tell us about your background pertaining to driving in PA..! cause...............I just went through an audit, just sent in my registration & am Looking at it now...Form MV-105-MCTSC & right on there ball bag is section #5 telling you what is what & asking you to check a box verifying that your vehicle is inspected...............my truck gets inspected twice a year!!!



None of this has anything to do with CDLs. Again you should know this.



> what do you drive? what class license do you have?..............while you might give worthless advice that dances around the form of legality..............I give it from experience, its clear you have never been OTR or pulled over by DOT, picked apart @ the scale house, etc... or you would have better insight than thinking you know all the rules from your lil JJ keller publication!!



Class A CDL but I know when it is needed and when it is not. That is the difference between me and you. I know when it is needed and when it is not. 



> technically for a 25,000 gvwr truck you only need a class c with no airbrake restriction good luck on getting that cause if im not mistaken you must apply for a class B in order to sit the exam for airbrakes in PA....However, even if so, you now have a class c "Commercial Drivers License"...........I see where you told someone that why worry unless you are gonna drive CMV........whats sad with your goofy impotent statement is that once you have a CDL..........you are commercial 24/7 & even in your own private vehicle you will be treated like you`re in a CMV..........look at the breathalizer test limit for those with CDL`s......even in the family yugo you better not be over .04 in PA .08 for non CDL..............well officer..Im in a PMV (private motor vehicle) LMFAO you cant fine me pertaining to CDL regulations cause Fatmax from arboristsite said so........LMFAO



Further proof that you really don't have a clue. A basic class C doesn't have an air brake restriction now does it? Just think about that for a minute.

Air brakes DON'T require a CDL even if they did your supposed 25k truck would only need a CDL class C. Like i have already said air brakes are the same for all classes of CDL. All can be had with or with out an air brake restriction. Yet again you have failed to show anything that says a CDL is needed for your 25k truck. Can you see the pattern here? You can't seem to back up a single statement that you make.

I am starting to think the best part of you run down your moms leg. 

ps Since you can't seem to find your way to any correct info about PA CDL requirements why don't you check this out. It's called a FACT SHEET.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-cdl.pdf

You will notice that class B CDLs don't start until you are north of 26k. Same for class A, not until the GCWR is north of 26k.


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## FatMax (Sep 14, 2011)

Sure hope I didn't scare everyone away.

This had been an intereesting discussion.:msp_sneaky:


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## Grace Tree (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't think you scared anyone. You just come across as a jerk and people probably have enough jerks around them already. That's just my opinion. I haven't taken an official poll.
Best regards,
Phil


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## flushcut (Sep 14, 2011)

firediver125 said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys have one of the tracked man lift? The ones that fit through gates and self level, are they worth the incredible amount of $$$ they cost? I would really like some input guys so chime in!


 
Well back on topic: IMO they are not worth it to own, renting or leasing is more of a viable option for a tree guy who only has the occasional use for such a lift.


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## TreeAce (Sep 14, 2011)

flushcut said:


> Well back on topic: IMO they are not worth it to own, renting or leasing is more of a viable option for a tree guy who only has the occasional use for such a lift.


 
I would think it would get used almost every day?? I have checked into rental and they are SUPER expensive. I wanna say it was so much that if u rented one twice a month...theres your payment....Although I am assuming cuz I really dont know what the payment would be. I guess it would be pretty darn high.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 14, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> I don't think you scared anyone. You just come across as a jerk and people probably have enough jerks around them already. That's just my opinion. I haven't taken an official poll.
> Best regards,
> Phil


 
Jerk? Why, cuz he schooled all of us on the facts of the fmc rules in this country? LOL. People were providing blatantly false info as fact on this thread, and he was the only one who backed his up with actual regs. I think the "scared everyone off" comment weas uneeded, but then again, sometimes it's ok to gloat with all the "think I know everything chooches on this site".. LOL... I enjoy getting schooled everyonce in a while, reminds me that there is still info to learn on this earth....


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## flushcut (Sep 14, 2011)

You would have to use it every day to justify the expense. Around here I have come across one yard where a narrow access lift would come in handy but not a necessity for me at least. But hey, if a guy has the work for one then pull that trigger and make that money. The rentals are spendy as hell, yes sir indeedy, but way cheeper than a purchase. I have battled the idea of buying a Genie or a Nifty but after crunching the numbers renting is cheaper, for me anyway.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 14, 2011)

lxt said:


> You`re too funny..............everyone is a bad man on the internet & knows everything & I doubt you blew off the scale houses..............Please, false plates & the rest of what you said??????????? & to fly in a lawyer....you dont make that much if you`re driving a Lil 54K log truck...............!
> 
> 
> 
> LXT....................Hey I didnt write the stuff I just adhere to it!


 
Pictures to prove it, and my attorney is on retainer.... They don't bother coming after an empty truck, there's nothing to weigh, they could have checked the fuel for dye, but I guess they had better things to do that day with the dozen combos they had lined up with their ONE DOT explorer they had onsite. Never claimed to know everything, unlike some people I've run into. But I know what I know if you can make sense out of that.......


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## FatMax (Sep 15, 2011)

Ducati, Me thinks LXT ain't comin' back.:msp_mellow:


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## lxt (Sep 15, 2011)

FatMax said:


> No offense but you are a little slow aren't you? Maybe illiterate as well?
> 
> You are mixing two completly different sections of the reguations when you talk about 17k and safety inspections. If you would read and understand the regulations you would know the difference.
> 
> ...


 

I can only think your dad shot his load into the electric fence during a goat molestation???

1st off......QMC pal......Qualified motor carrier check that!!

2nd...in Pa.......In order to have airbrakes you must sit the general knowledge test.....you can only sit the general knowledge test to upgrade class provided you are 18 & already have a class C.....so therefore airbrakes cannot technically be had with a class C in PA! even if your truck is south of 26,000 


Ya see you are going by the literally book sense of things & I am going by the real life way it is!!! big difference! even though technically according to your Lil J.J. Keller FMCSR you are right..................different states have different laws...example my lil ball bag.............try driving a triple trailer through PA, or hauling a 138k load like out west & as far as you thinking these are all 2 different issues pertaining to CDL????

However you wanna put the play on words......I have 25k truck & 12k trailer & due to the combo weight (GCWR) of them I am forced to have a MCRT (motor carrier road tax).......so maybe not "technically" a CDL issue.....BUT, drive without that sticker & see if the fine doesnt resemble what billy big rigger in the kenworth would get!!!!

with you its all semantics, Blakes might be fine in his neck of the woods...............maybe you two should drive down 79 by the cranberry/zelienople area of PA & see how the line of vans & troopers treat you???? 

*what you are missing? the CDL, if you have one? is 24/7 & you will be fined accordingly*! Scared me off???? BWAHAHAHA

Look.....you know the regulations in the technical sense(by the book)........but not in the real life literal sense, Ive driven the lower 48 & have mustered through many DOT checks & then in some states I have been slammed on an issue that wasnt one in another state..............In PA they are fairly tough & no lawyer on retainer is gonna save ya......

I dont knowitall by any means, but my logs, trucks & records are clean, legible & will pass the audit.......so I must know enough of something uh??? Blakes.....hey, if this meatwhistles love of the regs works for you & Mr. DOT up your way? then thats good!

ohh & a basic class c.....does have a restriction for airbrakes........ its called the motor vehicle code of PA, try driving an airbrake equipped vehicle with a class C...... im sure the fine will show you what section you just violated....but hey, just tell him what you told me! that should lessen the fine.............NOT!

That fact sheet.......... leaves out a lot of info, you got your beans over the frank if you think 1 page sums up the CDL laws in PA sprout!!! LOL

HAMMERDOWN!


LXT................


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## flushcut (Sep 15, 2011)

I guess nobody really wants to talk about tracked lifts.


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## FatMax (Sep 15, 2011)

lxt said:


> 2nd...in Pa.......In order to have airbrakes you must sit the general knowledge test.....you can only sit the general knowledge test to upgrade class provided you are 18 & already have a class C.....so therefore airbrakes cannot technically be had with a class C in PA! even if your truck is south of 26,000



It would be a CDL class C. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Don't take my word for it look it up yourself. Or have your mama do it for you since you obviously can't read.




> Ya see you are going by the literally book sense of things & I am going by the real life way it is!!! big difference! even though technically according to your Lil J.J. Keller FMCSR you are right..................different states have different laws...example my lil ball bag.............try driving a triple trailer through PA, or hauling a 138k load like out west & as far as you thinking these are all 2 different issues pertaining to CDL????



None of that is a CDL issue. But why would you know that?




> with you its all semantics, Blakes might be fine in his neck of the woods...............maybe you two should drive down 79 by the cranberry/zelienople area of PA & see how the line of vans & troopers treat you????



Again you have no clue. I would think you would know that by now but I guess you don't.



> ohh & a basic class c.....does have a restriction for airbrakes........ its called the motor vehicle code of PA, try driving an airbrake equipped vehicle with a class C...... im sure the fine will show you what section you just violated....but hey, just tell him what you told me! that should lessen the fine.............NOT!



So show us. Oh wait you can't because it don't exist.

You can't back up a single focking statement with fact can you? your such a baffoon.

If you can't understand the air brake thing the rest is way over your head.














Just post one link or source to back up a single thing you have said. :msp_mellow:


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## lxt (Sep 15, 2011)

I must have to write it in crayon!!!!!

Class C CDL IN PA..................._*you can only get endorsements on a Class C!!!!!![/*I] which would make it a CDL...however you can not have airbrakes on a class C CDL *IN PA* did you not read how the testing protocol is set up?

before you can take the airbrake exam (you with me?) you must take the General knowledge....however you must be 18 & have a Class C already (still with me)....the general knowledge is for *upgrade in class only* which means......drum roll....you must upgrade to atleast a Class B....God....you are so dumb you even smell stupid....!!!

Yeah you keep saying nothing is CDL related....funny how everything I mentioned is in the PA DOT truckers handbook!!!.....they just put things in there that have nothing to do with CDL, Did the doctor smack you immediately when exiting the birth canal? cause if not......perhaps the lack of oxygen is the issue in your latter years!!!

Beings you are so familiar with air brakes....then enlighten me on the pretrip procedure in cab & out of cab....Please!!!!! you wouldnt know how to adjust a slack adjuster if your life depended on it...or cage the emergency spring brakes when they screw up!!

you are someone who read a book & thinks he knowsit all, AGAIN....what kinda rig do you drive, tell me!!!! you just dont understand that there are laws outside of the FMCSR per state! do ya? I know this is not a CDL issue

I guess you dont need hazmat when hauling reportable quantities in a Truck south of 26K either uhh.......I mean its not a CDL issue...............you give us a 1 page fact sheet & think that governs all of the CDL laws in PA

Read the PA truckers handbook & what constitutes a CMV there are only 25 classes of truck, truck-tractor & combination registrations!! if the truck is used to tow a full trailer or semi trailer registered in excess of 10,000 pounds the truck is required to be registered as a combination & if the combination weight exceeds 17,001 pounds the driver is required to carry a med card & must possess a valid commercial drivers license.....................still not a CDL issue????? 

you are so good at checking things Im sure you will find the vehicle code regarding driving an airbrake equipped vehicle when not certified to do such, Im sure you`re able to check & get a copy of the truckers handbook.....what more info do you need after all these arent a CDL issue.........LOL, they`re just in addition to! 




LXT.............._


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## lxt (Sep 15, 2011)

NOW I understand!!!!!!!!

Fatmax.......what a biography...the about me page of yours is to die for!

Pig sticker...........interest: Pigs self stated pig banger.....Literally!!! yeah Im gonna trust in you????? NOT, you guys can rep him, give him likes & listen to him...LMFAO!! 


good luck with all that!!!



LXT............


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## lxt (Sep 15, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Ducati, Me thinks LXT ain't comin' back.:msp_mellow:


 
opcorn:



LXT............


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## flushcut (Sep 15, 2011)

Ok who gives a #### about tracked lifts this back and forth banter is priceless!! Beer and peanuts for everybody opcorn:opcorn:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow, 24 posts and they are all in this thread! I Mike Mass back from his mom's basement?


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## ducaticorse (Sep 15, 2011)

lxt said:


> opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> LXT............


 
LOL, I didn't say it........!


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## FatMax (Sep 18, 2011)

LXT, here is a link to your beloved PA truckers handbook.

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/PubsForms/Publications/PUB 194.pdf

It will be clear to anyone that clicks the link and reads for even 2 minutes that you have never read a word of it.


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## lxt (Sep 18, 2011)

The only thing thats clear is you just dont know!!:msp_confused: 

The other thing that is clear!!!.... Is that you through your Biography have & do sexually molest "PIGS" (self stated) , we can only attribute your inability to understand things..... which is un-equivically related from some form of disease obtained from packing Pigs in the Azz!!

You dont deserve any further reply!!!, I am cautious in response even now!!!..........please leave the farm animals alone!!!



LXT............. Now onto tracked aerial lifts.


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## flushcut (Sep 19, 2011)

:sword:


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## DangerTree (Sep 19, 2011)

Here in Canada it is really simple. Any vehicle over 2 ton requires a commercial vehicle inspection annually. Also if the vehicle is used for a commercial application regardless of size or weight it will require an inspection. This applies to trailers also. Unless the trailer has a fixed implement such as a generator. If it is used to haul removable stuff it must be licensed commercially. And operators of 5 ton or greater with air must be certified to drive the truck with an approved air brakes course. 

But hey on the topic of tracked lifts I was thinking of getting one of those 165' Leo 55's anybody use one out there that has any feed back? I think they are only 365,000 Canadian. Oh and you need a 5 ton to haul it around but I already have one of those.


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## FatMax (Sep 19, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> The 10k on a trailer around here is definetly a fact if your pulling over 10k with a pickup without a class A especially in MT lebanon thier notorious for the portable scales your taged and cant move the vehicle. My bobcat on its trailer is Class A because it is on a 12k trailer.
> 
> Most chipper manufactures get close to the 10k line on thier big chippers but try not to go over it for that reason alone its easier to sell a chipper that doesnt require a cdl.
> 
> This part the 10k of over on a trailer is even stamped on the back of my license.


 
No it's not. Read it again.

I posted the link to the PA truckers handbook. Maybe you could copy and paste the part that says you need a CDL for a trailer over 10k alone.


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## lxt (Sep 20, 2011)

Why do you LIE!!!

You are the one who keeps saying its not a CDL issue.............when clearly it is!!!!

you dont understand how the test is given & therefore you think you are right...........Wrong!!!!

All I can say is...............you have your opinion & I have my DOT Audit paper that is stamped Passed LOL (yep I dont know anything), feel free to keep telling people what you want (LIES)........Regulations (FMCSR) & Laws (PA Vehicle Code) & MCE(Motor Carrier Enforcement) are different entities my little pig banger! 

Basically............this issue is a dead horse, Personally I think Fatmax came here as a troll & needed an opening to create an arguement/Confusion seeing as how all his posts are in this thread!!! what do you drive again? LMFAO..............& no I didnt mean the backside of the Pig!!!!


LXT.................


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## lxt (Sep 20, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Show me where I am wrong dumb fauk.
> 
> There is whole list of your statements proven wrong by your own good book. Shall I list them so that you can work on them one at a time? I shall.
> 
> ...




#1 to have airbrakes in PA..........key term tard is in PA, yes you need a CDL!!! you will need to understand the testing protocol which apparently you dont cause I already explained this!!!

#2 A 25k truck with Air needs a CDL B...................IN PA YES!!! explained in the testing protocol......did you read that? or maybe when your mom was dictating it for you she was prepping the pig for your after hours amusement!!

#3 A 10K+ trailer needs a CDL A...................I know you think a 26,001 towing a trailer over 10k is what requires a CDL A.... but many fines have been written to guys with pickups & 1 tons for not operating within their operators class.....Mattfr12 I would say knows.............go to Mt Lebanon, PA or drive through Leetsdale/Neville Island PA

#4 you need to be registered as a combo & if you qualify as a motor carrier vehicle you will need US DOT/ MCRT sticker even if you are in a pick up.............Combination vehicles require CDL unless you file exemption.......maybe you need to read that vehicle Code?????

& the last couple of remarks................well, come here & apply for a Class C with Airbrakes...............nope..shutup & just come do it big boy...*dont even respond untill you have a valid PA drivers license class C with airbrake restriction lifted*......

when you can pull outta the pig & show me what your fodder filled mouth says can be done by obtaining the above....then I will give merit to what you say..........C`mon Dr. obvious show us how to do what you say!!!! after all no body knows anything but you!!!! * Dont come on here & tell us.....SHOW US!!!!!!*




LXT........................


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 20, 2011)

I just had to get DOT numbers for my pickup and bucket truck after a 30 min talk with the local PA State Police Officer. All commercial vehicles in PA now have to have a USDOT number. Idk about the air brake thing for sure, but I heard a couple of years ago they where going to change that to not needing a cdl for air brakes because they are safier then hydrolic brakes. I do know you need a DOT medical card for anything over 12,000 gvw. The 10k trailer thing with the cdl is a bit confusing even after the officer explained it to me. He said as long as you have a combination weight rating on your truck (almost $400 a year), then you can haul up to 26k combination. My cdl book I got when I took my test a couple years said that you still needed a cdl so Idk.


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## FatMax (Sep 20, 2011)

lxt said:


> Dont come on here & tell us.....SHOW US!!!!!![/B]


 
Same to you jackhole.

You HAVE NOT or CAN NOT back up a single thing you say.

You ability to add 2 + 2 and get 7 is incredible


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## flushcut (Sep 21, 2011)

Oh, for the love of God would you two shut up! Neither one of you is going to convince the other LET IT GO.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 21, 2011)

flushcut said:


> Oh, for the love of God would you two shut up! Neither one of you is going to convince the other LET IT GO.


 
Actually, I think it's pertinent information ( a bit off topic perhaps ) as I travel into PA on a regular basis to work. If there's something that screwy with their laws I'd like to know it. As far as what my research has turned up it's no different than anywhere else so I assume LXT and Mattfr12 have some bad info. If they don't though, I'd like to know. Hopefully one of them can put up a link or two to validate their statements.


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## flushcut (Sep 21, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> Actually, I think it's pertinent information ( a bit off topic perhaps ) as I travel into PA on a regular basis to work. If there's something that screwy with their laws I'd like to know it. As far as what my research has turned up it's no different than anywhere else so I assume LXT and Mattfr12 have some bad info. If they don't though, I'd like to know. Hopefully one of them can put up a link or two to validate their statements.


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## FatMax (Sep 21, 2011)

flushcut said:


>


 
Me too.


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## lxt (Sep 22, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> Actually, I think it's pertinent information ( a bit off topic perhaps ) as I travel into PA on a regular basis to work. If there's something that screwy with their laws I'd like to know it. As far as what my research has turned up it's no different than anywhere else so I assume LXT and Mattfr12 have some bad info. If they don't though, I'd like to know. Hopefully one of them can put up a link or two to validate their statements.


 
All I can say is do something to get pulled over........you`ll learn quick how ####ed up PA can be then!!!!!


LXT.............


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## lxt (Sep 22, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Same to you jackhole.
> 
> You HAVE NOT or CAN NOT back up a single thing you say.
> 
> You ability to add 2 + 2 and get 7 is incredible


 

wheres your PA class c cdl without airbrake restriction? LOL.. Dont have it?................then shut up!!!!! funny how other PA residents whom have experience (something you lack) Know whats....what!!

2+2 before....................hows the pigs?


LXT..............


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## Grace Tree (Sep 22, 2011)

LXT?

This is an serious question. Do you think there's a relationship between your argumentative nature and the fact that you needed triple by-pass back in May?
Phil


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 22, 2011)

lxt said:


> All I can say is do something to get pulled over........you`ll learn quick how ####ed up PA can be then!!!!!
> 
> 
> LXT.............


 

I'd rather learn without the ticket so I was asking you and Matt for help. If you have any documentation to back up your claims I'd love to see it as I'd like to know whether I'm operating legally or not when in your state. From the info I read I am, but if you have some more info I'd appreciate it a lot. Thanks.


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## FatMax (Sep 22, 2011)

lxt said:


> wheres your PA class c cdl without airbrake restriction?


 
There is not a single reason why you, me or anyone else can't get a class C CDL, with or without an air brake restriction. You obviously can't or don't understand the relationship of the state to the FMCSR.


LXT, I shouldn't have called you a dumbass, it was wrong.............of me to point it out.:msp_wink:


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## FatMax (Sep 22, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> I'd rather learn without the ticket so I was asking you and Matt for help. If you have any documentation to back up your claims I'd love to see it as I'd like to know whether I'm operating legally or not when in your state. From the info I read I am, but if you have some more info I'd appreciate it a lot. Thanks.


 
Pa's license requirements, even _if _they were different, don't affect you since you are in interstate commerce.


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## lxt (Sep 22, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> LXT?
> 
> This is an serious question. Do you think there's a relationship between your argumentative nature and the fact that you needed triple by-pass back in May?
> Phil


 
Hmmmm.... thats possible!! 

Im not trying to be argumenatative for the sake of such......the truth is: you can ask a state cop in lancaster a question & a state cop in Pittsburgh will give you a totally different answer for the same question.

All I know is I have been pulled over by three cops at the same time.....State Cop, Dot officer & Motor Carrier enforcement officer & all of em have a different little book they go by, one is weights & measures certified, one enforces this the other that & so on, the truth is if you think you know it all one the 3 above will surely find a reason to fine you over something!!! I am just going by what Im told & that was by the DOT officer during my audit, which in PA is mandatory depending on how you are registered & so forth, I cant cite the whole vehicle code pertaining to motor carrier enforcement nor the PA vehicle code otherwise.

but for someone to think that they are "johnny law know it all" to tell me what is law in Pa over those enforcing the laws is absurd, I know the obvious CDL statutes....all im saying is there is more to it....Im not gonna march into the local Barracks & say hey...Fatmax told me you guys are full of chit & this is the real law right here!!! 

All Im saying is if he knows so much......then come to PA & obtain that in which he says he can & hell...while he`s at it teach an informative class on the topics he thinks he knows.....Im sure the powers that be will love that!! other than that Im following what Ive been told & havent had a problem....so if you are the type that wants to rock the boat with the semantics that fatmax has offered you....go ahead!! but ask him if he`s gonna pay the fine for you? meanwhile better safe than sorry Ill follow what I have been....!


LXT...............


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## Menchhofer (Sep 22, 2011)

Gee, talk about derailing a thread. Should have started another thread on this subject.


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## lxt (Sep 22, 2011)

FatMax said:


> Pa's license requirements, even _if _they were different, don't affect you since you are in interstate commerce.


 


Right here is a misleading statement.............License requirements....your right on that, BUT..anything pertaining to his vehicle, load, manifest, msds, pretrip, fuel logs, road tax.....etc will effect him & one thing they blast many tree trucks on is lose dunnage


LXT..........


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 22, 2011)

lxt said:


> Hmmmm.... thats possible!!
> 
> Im not trying to be argumenatative for the sake of such......the truth is: you can ask a state cop in lancaster a question & a state cop in Pittsburgh will give you a totally different answer for the same question.
> 
> ...


 

I do plan on getting my class A soon for other reasons but I can't quite abstain from working in PA because some guy on the internet told me I'm not legal to drive there. Please LXT, do you have ANY documentation to back up what your buddies told you? I would appreciate it. Thanks.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 22, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> I do plan on getting my class A soon for other reasons but I can't quite abstain from working in PA because some guy on the internet told me I'm not legal to drive there. Please LXT, do you have ANY documentation to back up what your buddies told you? I would appreciate it. Thanks.


 
You have to follow the "interstate" commerence rules were we have to follow the "intrastate" commerence rules. Here is a link that you should be able to find everything out on. Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


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## husabud (Sep 22, 2011)

Menchhofer said:


> Gee, talk about derailing a thread. Should have started another thread on this subject.


 

I think I said that 4 or 5 pages ago. I feel bad for the OP, almost.


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## FatMax (Sep 22, 2011)

lxt said:


> Right here is a misleading statement.............



It's not misleading a bit. It's completely pertinent to the conversaion at hand. You are the only one bringing up all kinds of others things as a diversion to answer any question asked of you.

Even some of the things you mention here are still covered under FMCSR but you wouldn't know that, would you.


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## lxt (Sep 23, 2011)

FatMax said:


> It's not misleading a bit. It's completely pertinent to the conversaion at hand. You are the only one bringing up all kinds of others things as a diversion to answer any question asked of you.
> 
> Even some of the things you mention here are still covered under FMCSR but you wouldn't know that, would you.


 

Ya know I was trying to be civil in my reply & I even agreed with you....however you have a way to pidgeon hole what you say as LAW for everyone!!! you are the one who keeps saying its not a CDL issue & it clearly is!!! as much of an issue as what you told blakes in the post above!

Blakes, Look I dont have all the answers, like I said you ask 2 cops the same question & you`ll get 2 different answers....I went to a voluntary meeting in the Pittsburgh area for CDL/trailer towing & other things related, they had every law enforcement officer there you could think of & they red tagged certain peoples trucks/trailers, etc.... for teaching purposes!!! I remember one guy with a Dodge dully with a 14k trailer & he was told he was operating outside his license class.........he needed a CDL A!!

the red tags were pulled @ the end of the seminar, this was an informative gathering because so many people didnt understand all the different laws, etc.... I was told that day that If I think the FMCSR is all that they go by......I better have deep pockets..laugh, laugh by the officer & his buddies............My best advice is to just keep everything above par & Legal cause it seems to me that certain things are subject to interpretation.............if you wanna argue with the officer...good luck, I prefer to ask him what can I do to be compliant SIR?



LXT......................


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 23, 2011)

lxt said:


> Ya know I was trying to be civil in my reply & I even agreed with you....however you have a way to pidgeon hole what you say as LAW for everyone!!! you are the one who keeps saying its not a CDL issue & it clearly is!!! as much of an issue as what you told blakes in the post above!
> 
> Blakes, Look I dont have all the answers, like I said you ask 2 cops the same question & you`ll get 2 different answers....I went to a voluntary meeting in the Pittsburgh area for CDL/trailer towing & other things related, they had every law enforcement officer there you could think of & they red tagged certain peoples trucks/trailers, etc.... for teaching purposes!!! I remember one guy with a Dodge dully with a 14k trailer & he was told he was operating outside his license class.........he needed a CDL A!!
> 
> ...


 

I'm not surprised he needs a class A for that rig. A dually dodge with 14K trailer is sure to be over 26,001 lbs GCWR. However a 3/4 ton with 10,001 trailer could just slip in under 26,000 lbs. As far as officers enforcing laws that aren't on the books, well, I must say that THAT is wrong. I'll CMA and get my class A but a few rogue cops laughing about enforcing laws that aren't on the books makes me sick.


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## lxt (Sep 23, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> I'm not surprised he needs a class A for that rig. A dually dodge with 14K trailer is sure to be over 26,001 lbs GCWR. However a 3/4 ton with 10,001 trailer could just slip in under 26,000 lbs. As far as officers enforcing laws that aren't on the books, well, I must say that THAT is wrong. I'll CMA and get my class A but a few rogue cops laughing about enforcing laws that aren't on the books makes me sick.


 
I agree with you!!! however im not sure what is on the books & what is not...I tried to call the DOT auditor that did my safety inspection for some clarification on the topics gone over here........Cant get him to return my calls. what it seems like to me especially in PA, is that there are stacked laws (if you will) that @ each level have a different meaning....it just depends on which level you are violating & if they wish to keep checking above & beyond that????

Believe me, I have tried to state my case on a few occasions thinking I knew what I was talking about (fresh outta school) & the sad thing is.......even if you are right? it pisses them off & they will find something...I remember in KY I was hauling a 53 fter box & got stopped....I was all full of knowledge & I expressed my self.....yep driver you know so much cept our 9th hole law uhh?

I was like WTF............. well @ that time in KY they had a bridge rule (pertaining to tandems) & I was in the 10th hole on my sliding rear tandems a big no no!!! he let me off easy with a $250.00 fine...so he said!! What Im saying & have been is that there is book knowledge & then there is real life experience.........rather than argue (I unlike on here) rather just be safe than sorry...........sorry costs alot of money!!!

Be safe & stay healthy


LXT......................


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## ducaticorse (Sep 23, 2011)

lxt said:


> I agree with you!!! however im not sure what is on the books & what is not...I tried to call the DOT auditor that did my safety inspection for some clarification on the topics gone over here........Cant get him to return my calls. what it seems like to me especially in PA, is that there are stacked laws (if you will) that @ each level have a different meaning....it just depends on which level you are violating & if they wish to keep checking above & beyond that????
> 
> Believe me, I have tried to state my case on a few occasions thinking I knew what I was talking about (fresh outta school) & the sad thing is.......even if you are right? it pisses them off & they will find something...I remember in KY I was hauling a 53 fter box & got stopped....I was all full of knowledge & I expressed my self.....yep driver you know so much cept our 9th hole law uhh?
> 
> ...


 
True, cops can be pricks. I had a guy that worked for me take delivery of a brand new truck and got pulled over by DOT. Told him right off the bat there was noting worng with the rig, and it had just passed inspection. The guy couldn't find anyting wrong with the truck, so he finally cited the driver for having too much grease on the axel joints. Talk about a clip right out of Porky's........


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## FatMax (Sep 24, 2011)

lxt said:


> im not sure what is on the books


 
That's an understatement.


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## treeman82 (Sep 25, 2011)

I take care of a lot of waterfront properties which have limitted access. For me a bucket truck is typically useless. I'm sure that a 75' or better articulated track lift will be in my future.... just gonna take some time is all. Besides, there's always plenty of people around who have conventional bucket trucks around which can be used for roadside work if that's what the job calls for.


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## lxt (Sep 26, 2011)

FatMax said:


> That's an understatement.


 
..................its just not worth responding to you!!! Now about tracked lifts....(cmon fatmax, give us your input...LOL)

I would go with a towable at first, however.......if you truly want a self propelled unit & access is not a problem then check out the Nifty Lift SD50....ive seen them for around 30-40K brand new...upwards of 60K+

It also depends on your area as far as recouping the money spent within the depriciation aspects of this Biz, I would never go back to a bucket truck after running the towable`s & demo`ing other self propelled units, heres why: the uses are many, I have done everything from boom up shingles, set trusses, windows, gutters, chimney sweep, rescue cats, etc... I have in times that were slow for me rented the unit out with it being mandatory that I am present during operation!!! the foot print is very light & the reach comparable............not many want a huge bucket truck in their back yard...if you could even get it there!

Now...to sell the unit as compared to a Bucket Truck.......its much easier to sell them!! Bucket trucks for tree work are viewed as job specific & in this economy people want diversity.........which is what makes the towables & self propelled units wanted IMHO!




LXT................


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## FatMax (Sep 28, 2011)

lxt said:


> ..................its just not worth responding to you!!! Now about tracked lifts....(cmon fatmax, give us your input...LOL)
> 
> I would go with a towable at first, however.......if you truly want a self propelled unit & access is not a problem then check out the Nifty Lift SD50....ive seen them for around 30-40K brand new...upwards of 60K+
> 
> ...


 
But ya did anyway.:msp_sneaky:


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## ducaticorse (Sep 28, 2011)

lxt said:


> ..
> 
> Now...to sell the unit as compared to a Bucket Truck.......its much easier to sell them!! Bucket trucks for tree work are viewed as job specific & in this economy people want diversity.........which is what makes the towables & self propelled units wanted IMHO!
> 
> ...


 


Well said.

But I would rather have a nice clean bucket truck rolling around with my name on it for company presence alone. Of course if money wasn't an object, I's also rock a Teupen.

I do Agree about people wanting diversity in this economy. See my last post on the use of "mini's" vs small bobcat for tree work alone in the "question on mini's" thread.


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## lxt (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah the nice thing about a bucket is the advertising..........its the size of a billboard!! nice topic about the Mini`s


LXT............


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## Koa Man (Nov 16, 2011)

A bucket truck would be able to access only 20% of the coconut palms at the hotels I trim at. In fact, I got 165 palms at a hotel contracted to me because the other contractor could not get to them with his 75 ft. bucket truck and the hotel did not want them climbed with spikes. Four other tree companies have subbed me for bucket work in places not accessible to their lift. For me, a spiderlift is the only way to go. It really depends on each tree company's situation as to the choice of lift.

As far as the boom speed goes, I turned up the controls to their max after the warranty period was over. Been that way for a year and a half and no problems and the bucket moves twice as fast as before, close to 80% of a bucket truck's speed.


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## R DeLawter (Nov 16, 2011)

flushcut said:


> I guess nobody really wants to talk about tracked lifts.



Wow, did this thread get off subject.

I have a Genie articulated lift that I have used for personal tree work and it has been handy for me. It does not go high enough for you pro Tree Men (50 ft ) but I use it mainly for roof work.

Also not tracked but large flotation tires and is 4 wheel drive.


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## martinleblanc (Jan 15, 2013)

*Tracked Aerial Lift other option*

Take a look to UPequip.ca. We have rent one 70' and one 100' for a special job. The selling price are a lot cheaper than
the previous quote we got last year. Pretty impressive product. We dont know if we gonna buy.


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## deevo (Jan 15, 2013)

martinleblanc said:


> Take a look to UPequip.ca. We have rent one 70' and one 100' for a special job. The selling price are a lot cheaper than
> the previous quote we got last year. Pretty impressive product. We dont know if we gonna buy.



how much for the 70'er? These made in Quebec or where?


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## lxt (Jan 15, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> The poorly written reference you cited confirms my statements:
> 
> _"If you have a truck that is 26,000 lbs. and hook it to trailer that is exactly 10,000 lbs. rated....do you need a CDL? NO!!
> Why? Because neither of the vehicles exceed the "1" lb. even though they are over the 26,000!!"
> ...





Well................technically NO! but you are a QMC( qualified motor carrier) and you will need a medical card, also you will need to register for US DOT number & will want to check with your state as to whether you need to register as a combination.

If your truck weighs 26 thousand unladen you most certainly will need a CDL cause that vehicles Laden weight is more than 26,001.......if we are talking the trucks gross weight rating meaning truck without load weight + the load equaling 26,000 I will gaurantee you will still want a CDL cause as soon as your ass hits the seat you are over weight my man! 

The 1 pound rule you are throwing around will get you burned.............do you really wanna laugh at MR. DOT thinking you got him by 1 pound? better safe than sorry! I went round with a guy on here bout regs & the FMCSR............bottom line he thinks he was right & I think im right, you`ll find out when ya get pulled over or hit the scales & ive been through both many times thank god that I did things the way I did cause my paper work is always clean, manifests are spot on & the truck, my license & all else were in order!





LXT............


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## lxt (Jan 15, 2013)

Now for the tracked lifts............I agree with Koa! depends on your area, I had a bucket & sold it the thing sat in the front of the house with the trees in the back yard fenced in!! was nothing more than a storage truck for tree gear & a chipper towing device.

survey your work & see what would be best. but it will pay for its self!!!!



LXT...........


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## martinleblanc (Jan 16, 2013)

Easy Lift are made in Italy, like most of spider lift. I think that UPequip also act under Easy Lift North America. 
From what i understand, Upequip are making modifications and certification for the USA and Canada and distribute products and parts thru
their dealer network.


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## martinleblanc (Jan 16, 2013)

i forgot to answer your first question. 
Back in august 2012, they quotes us 92 500$ for a articulated 70-36AJ equipped with silenced diesel engine + electric AC motor, remote control and some others options. 
i


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## deevo (Jan 16, 2013)

martinleblanc said:


> i forgot to answer your first question.
> Back in august 2012, they quotes us 92 500$ for a articulated 70-36AJ equipped with silenced diesel engine + electric AC motor, remote control and some others options.
> i



Thanks, not bad price for it. Anyone in Que or Ontario using them yet? Only tracked lifts I have seen around are Teupens and a company near me has the new JLG tracked lift which is nicely built.


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## martinleblanc (Jan 18, 2013)

deevo said:


> Thanks, not bad price for it. Anyone in Que or Ontario using them yet? Only tracked lifts I have seen around are Teupens and a company near me has the new JLG tracked lift which is nicely built.



There many sold unit on the US side, but only few in Canada for now; Most units are used by siding-gutter company, window cleanner, some shoppping center, olympic stadium, Montreal Casino. 
We get a quote from United Rental and Hertz for a JLG 70 diesel compact crawler; the price was ridiculously expensive; we can get a 50 and 70 EasyLift for the same price of a JLG70.
JLG does not manufacture these machines. They buy them from Italian manufacturer which is called Hinowa, and partially assembled in united state ( Just to have the right to put sticker ''made in USA''


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## ExtremeLifts (Jan 24, 2013)

I have several customers in Canada using the reasonably priced CMC Crawler Lifts from All Access Equipment.


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