# Leaning Tree



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 2, 2009)

I've got a couple trees I need to fell opposite of their 10 degree or so lean. 

A couple of them I can chain/cum-a-long to get the extra little bit. But a couple of them are standing alone, no chain.  Just curious what I can do.

Thanks,

Jeff


----------



## arborist (Jul 2, 2009)

everyone's going to ask you this,so i'l be first........
got some pics?


----------



## huskystihl (Jul 2, 2009)

Cum alongs tend to be a bit dangersous. A pickup and plenty of cable if ya have the room, if not start climbing if your comfy if not call a pro.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 2, 2009)

I couldn't get any pics. I was only there for about an hour and I dropped a 60' spruce. As I was leaving he asked about it. The tree only deviates maybe 5 feet at the top. Maybe 75 feet tall. There are a couple of them, the both lean towards wires. I'm looking not to climb the suckers. Maybe save this guy some cash, as he'll have about 10,000 worth of work for me if I play it right. The bid will go up higher than he'd like if I have to climb. 

I know come-a-longs suck, but they give me that little bit when I'm not 100% sure. Thanks,

Jeff


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 2, 2009)

a lot of option depending on the trees. climb and top to a height safe to drop, rope and wedge, wedge and side rope... ETC ETC


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 2, 2009)

There are sporadic trees near this one, but this one happens to be the 'front' one. so it has to go last, as I'm going to anchor o it to pull the rest down. I got a decent chain fall, I should probably use that, huh? The come-a-longs are just too danged easy, and fast. lol 

Probably a 30-35" diameter oak. straight as an arrow too. Just grew a little sideways. Already have the logs sold, so maybe I'm climbing now. lol The guy wants HUGE pieces he says. lol God knows how big HUGE is. His words were the bigger the more $$. So my goal is to drop the whole tree, limb it, and call the guy. lol We'll see. 

Any other tips, I'm open.

Jeff


----------



## huskystihl (Jul 3, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> There are sporadic trees near this one, but this one happens to be the 'front' one. so it has to go last, as I'm going to anchor o it to pull the rest down. I got a decent chain fall, I should probably use that, huh? The come-a-longs are just too danged easy, and fast. lol
> 
> Probably a 30-35" diameter oak. straight as an arrow too. Just grew a little sideways. Already have the logs sold, so maybe I'm climbing now. lol The guy wants HUGE pieces he says. lol God knows how big HUGE is. His words were the bigger the more $$. So my goal is to drop the whole tree, limb it, and call the guy. lol We'll see.
> 
> ...



10 deg isn't impossible unless its leaning 10 deg and setting on a hillside. Open your notch up a bit more than normal and use at least 3 wedges, start your backcut into the lean and wedge as you go and pound them often. A truck would give ya that extra piece of mind but you should be alright.


----------



## True Blue Sam (Jul 3, 2009)

If you can build in 30 inches of room between the hinge and the backside, and the tree is 75 feet tall, you have a 30 segment tree, which should allow you to handle something more than 10 feet of backlean. 10 feet would need around 4 1/2 inches of wedging, so you will get tired of swinging your hammer, but it can be done if the tree has strong hinge wood. Take a look Here.

Of course, with a power line figured in you have to do a super-safety assessment, but you know that. Good luck!


----------



## outofmytree (Jul 3, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> If you can build in 30 inches of room between the hinge and the backside, and the tree is 75 feet tall, you have a 30 segment tree, which should allow you to handle something more than 10 feet of backlean. 10 feet would need around 4 1/2 inches of wedging, so you will get tired of swinging your hammer, but it can be done if the tree has strong hinge wood. Take a look Here.
> 
> Of course, with a power line figured in you have to do a super-safety assessment, but you know that. Good luck!



I checked out the series of photos on the link TBS. 

The techniques you used may be beyond some posters here. Nice looking job btw.

GoE. No Pictures?? Puhllleeeeeez!!! I aint talking until you ante up.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 3, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> If you can build in 30 inches of room between the hinge and the backside, and the tree is 75 feet tall, you have a 30 segment tree, which should allow you to handle something more than 10 feet of backlean. 10 feet would need around 4 1/2 inches of wedging, so you will get tired of swinging your hammer, but it can be done if the tree has strong hinge wood. Take a look Here.
> 
> Of course, with a power line figured in you have to do a super-safety assessment, but you know that. Good luck!


:agree2:

Yeah, 30 segments + 5' lean + 30" ABH + sound stem = should be 'doable'. Here's a couple of links you probably already know - good review, anyway.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/log...ts/special_techniques/special_techniques.html
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/ec/ec1124.pdf

*True Blue Sam* Really like your wedges cut from the stem - I always cut my big wedges from limbs - good idea, good job, nice pix!!!

Speaking of which ...


outofmytree said:


> No Pictures?? Puhllleeeeeez!!!


:agree2::agree2:

*Pix would really help!* I assume from your posts that you can't get a vehicle where you need it but you do have an good anchor where you need it. Could you put a block on the anchor and redirect the pull line to a vehicle somewhere else?

If not, here's a trick that's worked quite successfully in such situations. Rig a cable or bull rope high in the tree and to the anchor. Then attach a large billet (+200#) to the middle of the bull rope. Haul the rope tight to raise the billet 10' or more off the ground. That puts a lot of tension on the tree. As the tree falls the billet will keep tension on the line until the billet hits the ground. By then, the tree should be well on its way to where you want it. It works really well to direct a fall.


----------



## Komitet (Jul 3, 2009)

is this what you're refering to as a come along? http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1514

we use the rope pullers at work with 3 strand tree master and have pulled some sizeable trees with a lot of lean beside powerlines about everyday, good investment, although they are slow.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 3, 2009)

Komitet said:


> is this what you're refering to as a come along? http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1514
> 
> we use the rope pullers at work with 3 strand tree master and have pulled some sizeable trees with a lot of lean beside powerlines about everyday, good investment, although they are slow.



That Maasdam rope puller has been on my shopping list for some time. I think I'll get the package deal with 150' Tree Master next time I need to replace a bull rope. Wespur's price is a little cheaper. http://www.wesspur.com/Pullers/rope-cable-pullers.html#rigkit

However, I have a Lug-All come along:
http://www.lug-all.com/pages/cableratchmed.php
Beautiful device, cost a fortune but I had a bad experience with the hardware store variety. I was loading a tree to fall uphill and the pin in the 2-part block failed (way under rated load) - pulley missed my head by inches. Could have taken out all of my teeth or all the rest of my life. Threw the thing way and bought the Lug-All the next day. So beware of cheap come alongs.

I only use it when I can't get my ATV or truck winch involved. Even then I have a wireless remote to operate the winch so I can be out of harms way. Where possible, I avoid being in line with any highly tensioned rope or cable.

Very true, come alongs ARE slow - but SOMETIMES, SLOW IS GOOD.


----------



## Komitet (Jul 3, 2009)

for work all of our equipment is break tested, I believe the maasdam broke with a 5 foot bar on the handle and 2 guys on it, if I can find my books I can give you actual dyno numbers. I believe it was aroud 2000 lbs MBS if I recall.


----------



## Metals406 (Jul 3, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> If you can build in 30 inches of room between the hinge and the backside, and the tree is 75 feet tall, you have a 30 segment tree, which should allow you to handle something more than 10 feet of backlean. 10 feet would need around 4 1/2 inches of wedging, so you will get tired of swinging your hammer, but it can be done if the tree has strong hinge wood. Take a look Here.
> 
> Of course, with a power line figured in you have to do a super-safety assessment, but you know that. Good luck!



Is that you in the video in the link?.. If so, why do you put your backcut well below the face cut?


----------



## True Blue Sam (Jul 3, 2009)

Quote (Is that you in the video in the link?.. If so, why do you put your backcut well below the face cut? )

Answer That is a logger I know near Fairfield, IL. He starts his back cut level with the corner of the front cut, and angles down slightly toward the center of the tree. His cuts from opposite sides always intersect, leaving a smooth butt with no bypassed wood hanging on the end of the log. He has a circular sawmill, and uses this style of cut to prevent wood being launched by the head saw. I wish he would wear chaps....


----------



## Metals406 (Jul 3, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> Quote (Is that you in the video in the link?.. If so, why do you put your backcut well below the face cut? )
> 
> Answer That is a logger I know near Fairfield, IL. He starts his back cut level with the corner of the front cut, and angles down slightly toward the center of the tree. His cuts from opposite sides always intersect, leaving a smooth butt with no bypassed wood hanging on the end of the log. He has a circular sawmill, and uses this style of cut to prevent wood being launched by the head saw. I wish he would wear chaps....



The picture below is one example of several in the video... He's a few inches below the intersection of the face... Not starting an argument, just pointing out the obvious.

Cutting below the face is not a good practice to teach others.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 3, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> GoE. No Pictures?? Puhllleeeeeez!!! I aint talking until you ante up.




Ok, ok, ok. I'll snap some tomorrow, and cut on sunday. lol It's a bit of a drive, but I'm going that way so...

Posting soon,

Jeff


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 3, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Ok, ok, ok. I'll snap some tomorrow, and cut on sunday. lol It's a bit of a drive, but I'm going that way so...
> 
> Posting soon,
> 
> Jeff


Looking forward to the pix.

If you're going to cut on Sunday, be careful - sounds tricky. You've had some good advice on this thread - best of luck.

*AIN'T NOTHIN' LIKE LUCK!*


----------



## True Blue Sam (Jul 4, 2009)

> The picture below is one example of several in the video... He's a few inches below the intersection of the face... Not starting an argument, just pointing out the obvious.
> 
> Cutting below the face is not a good practice to teach others.



Jason's face cut is wide enough that the tree can rotate to the ground with the hinge intact, and his hinge is well made, so I can give him a pass on minor variations in his style. He is in hardwoods that tend not to hang like conifers, and he has good aim. His partner on the skidder appreciates the low stumps. Jason is multi-lingual in cutting methods and can handle himself in any situation. He currently is logging out timber pushed over from a big wind event, with lots of hung-up trees. 

Listen to his partner tell about taking a class from an 'expert' in Kentucky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnLQ24pVGM


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 4, 2009)

*Oooo! Controversy - cool!*



Metals406 said:


> The picture below is one example of several in the video... He's a few inches below the intersection of the face... Not starting an argument, just pointing out the obvious.
> 
> Cutting below the face is not a good practice to teach others.


:agree2:
Gotta side with *Metals406* here. Back cut below the face cut puts the hinge in tension as soon the fall begins. The hinge needs to flex and not go into tension 'til the face closes. A back cut slightly above the face cut allows the hinge wood to act more like a hinge. Conceded, it is less of a problem in hardwood - still contrary to recommended practice.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 4, 2009)

*The PICS ARE HERE!!!*

These are the pics. All three of the trees in front of the house go. They all fall to the left in the picture. But lean slightly right. 

Thanks,

Jeff


----------



## outofmytree (Jul 4, 2009)

It's late and I'm tired. GoE did you say you were going to fell these? IMHO these are high risk for an inexperienced feller so close to road and house. Why not take it slow, climb and dismantle. If the HO wont come to the party walk away. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is admit a job is beyond your current level of skill.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 4, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> It's late and I'm tired. GoE did you say you were going to fell these? IMHO these are *high risk *for an inexperienced feller so close to road and house. Why not take it slow, climb and dismantle. If the HO wont come to the party walk away. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is admit a job is beyond your current level of skill.


:agree2:


----------



## arborist (Jul 4, 2009)

to safely remove these trees,you should be an experienced certified arborist.
(i wouldn't hire anyone less).
if your not at this point in your career,you shouldn't attempt it.
you where just asking about basic tree climbing skills in another thread.
you should not to attempt these.
are you insured?
these tree's shouldn't simply be pulled over,but if you insist on doing it this way.(crazy imho) make sure your insured.
you will risk thousands and thousands of money in property damage should any of these tree go the wrong way while trying to simply fell them at once.even if tied at 3/4 of the way up.
inform the homeowner he needs a certified,experienced,insured arborist and walk away is my personal advice for you here.
you could let the homeowner know however,that you would be interested in the cleanup.(a good job itself)so a certified arborist/crew could simply drop everything and leave it.
the job gets done safely.
you still get work.
the home is safe and the homeowner is happy.
more than likely,a certified arborist/crew is going to be charging much more than you quoted him.but its the safest way.
this is just another day on the job for us experienced arborist but could end up ruining your reputation before you even get started in the field of arboriculture.(or much worse of course-death.)


----------



## Metals406 (Jul 4, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> Jason's face cut is wide enough that the tree can rotate to the ground with the hinge intact, and his hinge is well made, so I can give him a pass on minor variations in his style. He is in hardwoods that tend not to hang like conifers, and he has good aim. His partner on the skidder appreciates the low stumps. Jason is multi-lingual in cutting methods and can handle himself in any situation. He currently is logging out timber pushed over from a big wind event, with lots of hung-up trees.
> 
> Listen to his partner tell about taking a class from an 'expert' in Kentucky:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnLQ24pVGM



It sounds like Jason is a good guy... But bad technique, is bad technique. You can fall 200 trees that way, and it only takes one to kick out on you, and then you're screwed.

On a pro job up north, those stumps would get you fired. 

I understand the differences on hard and soft wood, but there isn't a big enough difference to justify any cutting technique that is proven to be unsafe... And I wouldn't refer to it as 'a minor' variation in cutting technique.

Greenhorns will watch that video, and emulate what he does... So they'll be starting off wrong right out'a the gate. He presents that video as a 'professional how-to' for safe and proper felling technique... Some of the stuff he shows is fine, but not all. 

And as far as the other video, I'm sure there are lot's of 'pro' felling classes around that aren't worth a hoot.

Like I said, I'm not saying your buddy isn't a good logger all around... Just pointing out some obvious things I saw in the video.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 5, 2009)

I am insured. Couldn't imagine cutting if I wasn't. I looked at the pics and then again at the trees today. They're not leaning as bad as they look in the pics. I didn't cut today, he had some family things come up, and wanted me to wait till Monday. I did talk to him about the house behind, he's actually going to bulldoze it and make it a parking lot I guess. So, now felling them in that direction is more of a challenge to me. I was about to tell him it would cost more, but he jumped first and said the house could go. I got more $ anyway. lol Seemed prudent to me.

I'm thinking the one that leans the worst, will be the last to go. I can use it to block the other trees to. It's a lot bigger and healthier.

Thanks everyone,

Jeff


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 5, 2009)

arborist said:


> to safely remove these trees,you should be an experienced certified arborist.
> (i wouldn't hire anyone less).
> if your not at this point in your career,you shouldn't attempt it.
> you where just asking about basic tree climbing skills in another thread.
> ...



To safely remove these trees you need to be experienced being a certified arborist is not all that important in this situation unless your local law requires such. The big one in front not only leans but the majority of the weight is going in the wrong direction. They should be made a little smaller before you try to take them down. But since your looking to learn maybe you can find a local guy to take the job and in return for the business give you some advice on your climbing education.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> To safely remove these trees you need to be experienced being a certified arborist is not all that important in this situation unless your local law requires such. The big one in front not only leans but the majority of the weight is going in the wrong direction. They should be made a little smaller before you try to take them down. But since your looking to learn maybe you can find a local guy to take the job and in return for the business give you some advice on your climbing education.



Think it's smart to use the big lean one to practice climbing on? Get more comfortable for free?


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> To safely remove these trees you need to be experienced being a certified arborist is not all that important in this situation unless your local law requires such. The big one in front not only leans but the majority of the weight is going in the wrong direction. They should be made a little smaller before you try to take them down. But since your looking to learn maybe you can find a local guy to take the job and in return for the business give you some advice on your climbing education.



Well first thing is to evaluate the tree for safety. If the root system is strong and you rule out dangerous decay or any other hazards then yeah it could be a good learning experience. But if you planning on cutting in the tree then you should be at a point where you are very comfortable climbing, descending, advancing ropes, ETC ETC... if your not cutting and just want to practice climbing there is a lesson or two to be learned about climbing a leaner like for instance if your body thrusting first try it on the backside of the lean the go around to the front side and see the difference. go up 90 degrees of the lean and practice getting around to a work position on either side. But of course insure you have all the required safety equipment, go slow as you get comfortable work you way up. Having an educated eye to watch you would be a huge plus.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well first thing is to evaluate the tree for safety. If the root system is strong and you rule out dangerous decay or any other hazards then yeah it could be a good learning experience. But if you planning on cutting in the tree then you should be at a point where you are very comfortable climbing, descending, advancing ropes, ETC ETC... if your not cutting and just want to practice climbing there is a lesson or two to be learned about climbing a leaner like for instance if your body thrusting first try it on the backside of the lean the go around to the front side and see the difference. go up 90 degrees of the lean and practice getting around to a work position on either side. But of course insure you have all the required safety equipment, go slow as you get comfortable work you way up. Having an educated eye to watch you would be a huge plus.



I'm thinking I'm gonna just sharpen the axe tonight and do these old school.

Educated eye might be hard. I'm thinking of spiking up them, maybe refine those techniques a bit. lol 

I'll bring a hatchet and some of that Wally-World hollow braid yellow nylon rope. Should hold, right? hehe...Kidding

These are all very nice strong trees. They block this guys parking lot plans, and his itty bitty sign that's like over 70 yrds away. lol


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 5, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I'm thinking I'm gonna just sharpen the axe tonight and do these old school.
> 
> Educated eye might be hard. I'm thinking of spiking up them, maybe refine those techniques a bit. lol
> 
> ...



Well I may have mentioned this before but, any chance you get to practice spiking with out damaging a healthy tree go for it.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well I may have mentioned this before but, any chance you get to practice spiking with out damaging a healthy tree go for it.



That's the idea. One way or another these all are coming down. I think if I can spend a few hrs and get more comfortable, i could limb them on the way up, top them out then fell the last smaller portion, at that point it won't matter which way it falls. However, still wedge it and everything just like I would, to get the practice. Sound reasonable?

Jeff


----------



## ropensaddle (Jul 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> To safely remove these trees you need to be experienced being a certified arborist is not all that important in this situation unless your local law requires such. The big one in front not only leans but the majority of the weight is going in the wrong direction. They should be made a little smaller before you try to take them down. But since your looking to learn maybe you can find a local guy to take the job and in return for the business give you some advice on your climbing education.



Yes experienced I would pull in hook up my choker cables which are made to go 30' up then back my bucket into to drop zone spool out my 20 ton winch and have all 3 safely on the ground two hours tops. I would not have to cut anything off three notch and drops from what I can see.


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 5, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> That's the idea. One way or another these all are coming down. I think if I can spend a few hrs and get more comfortable, i could limb them on the way up, top them out then fell the last smaller portion, at that point it won't matter which way it falls. However, still wedge it and everything just like I would, to get the practice. Sound reasonable?
> 
> Jeff



Well the big leaner I would definitely limb and top before I dropped it, all the weight is going with the lean so it compounds the problem. If your planning on doing so be careful, go slow, always use at least two tie ins, double check everything before you cut anything and be sure you have someone else with you (preferably a climber can get you out of the tree if there is a problem). Before you go up that tree with a saw make sure you are totally comfortable climbing with out one, going up and coming down. standing in a tree in spikes an a lanyard 40 feet up is cool, standing in a tree on spikes an a lanyard 40 feet up and running a chainsaw is a hole new world and a hole new dangerous. Like many here I first started doing any cutting in a tree with a handsaw and thought man this is no big deal, but the first time I cut (at any height) with a chainsaw, well I not afraid to admit I had a little leg shake when I got down. BUT I WAS HOOKED FOR LIFE AFTER.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well the big leaner I would definitely limb and top before I dropped it, all the weight is going with the lean so it compounds the problem. If your planning on doing so be careful, go slow, always use at least two tie ins, double check everything before you cut anything and be sure you have someone else with you (preferably a climber can get you out of the tree if there is a problem). Before you go up that tree with a saw make sure you are totally comfortable climbing with out one, going up and coming down. standing in a tree in spikes an a lanyard 40 feet up is cool, standing in a tree on spikes an a lanyard 40 feet up and running a chainsaw is a hole new world and a hole new dangerous. Like many here I first started doing any cutting in a tree with a handsaw and thought man this is no big deal, but the first time I cut with a chainsaw, well I not afraid to admit I had a little leg shake when I got down. BUT I WAS HOOKED FOR LIFE AFTER.



My plan is to spend most of the day climbing without a saw, and maybe towards the evening start cutting if at all tomorrow. I wanna be 100% comfortable. I've gotten uncomfortable only once, that's all it took for me. lol

I also thought about running a cable from the guy's wrecker up and over a limb, down to me, and winching me up, then cutting away, but something seemed off to me about it, not sure yet, but that's not the plan. lol

Thanks stihl, you're greatly appreciated.

Jeff


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 6, 2009)

Well I ran over real quick and cut one up for you to drop. I would feel safe flopping it now.

BEFORE




AFTER


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 6, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well I ran over real quick and cut one up for you to drop. I would feel safe flopping it now.



Damn fine job. Hey, I love the clouds too! Excellent placement. Wish I could've gotten the video though.


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 6, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Damn fine job. Hey, I love the clouds too! Excellent placement. Wish I could've gotten the video though.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 6, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> That's the idea. One way or another these all are coming down. I think if I can spend a few hrs and get more comfortable, i could limb them on the way up, top them out then fell the last smaller portion, at that point it won't matter which way it falls. However, still wedge it and everything just like I would, to get the practice. Sound reasonable?
> 
> Jeff



Jeff -

I searched your thread for "wire" - didn't get a hit. You probably already know. Anyway, just thought it should be said: When you're cutting topside (handsaw or chainsaw) make sure lanyard has a wire core.

Looks like a fun project - good luck. Hope you'll post some pix.

-JB


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 6, 2009)

I use wire core myself but there is tons of controversy over how good it really is. I would like to believe it improves your chances some, but I wouldnt say its as important as having two tie ins. If you have plenty of money to spend on gear then hell ya get one. If your limited then I would suggest buying two non wire core lanyards if your gonna be piecing out a trunk. I prefer a climb line as back up but double flip line is sometimes faster to just get the work done.

Wire core test <--- see video


----------



## ropensaddle (Jul 6, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I use wire core myself but there is tons of controversy over how good it really is. I would like to believe it improves your chances some, but I wouldnt say its as important as having two tie ins. If you have plenty of money to spend on gear then hell ya get one. If your limited then I would suggest buying two non wire core lanyards if your gonna be piecing out a trunk. I prefer a climb line as back up but double flip line is sometimes faster to just get the work done.
> 
> Wire core test <--- see video



I use the wire core but its adjuster stinks imo.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 6, 2009)

Pretty cool video. I liked the videos of the chainsaw tests on boots and pants, too. I've never come close to cutting anything but tree with the saw flat out. Though, years ago I did nick a steel toed boot once. It was after the cut and the chain was coasting to a stop and it touched the boot. Thank God I have always worn steel toed boots. Anyway, that's where I think wire core is the most useful - after the cut when your pulling the saw out of the way and it's not fully stopped. I'm a belt and suspenders type - keep my climbing line and a 2&1 lanyard rigged as much as possible. Still think wire core is a good recommendation.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Jul 6, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> If you can build in 30 inches of room between the hinge and the backside, and the tree is 75 feet tall, you have a 30 segment tree, which should allow you to handle something more than 10 feet of backlean. 10 feet would need around 4 1/2 inches of wedging, so you will get tired of swinging your hammer, but it can be done if the tree has strong hinge wood. Take a look Here.
> 
> Of course, with a power line figured in you have to do a super-safety assessment, but you know that. Good luck!



I looked at your website and the pics on the right hand side. You left a tree with a undercut and a partial backcut OVERNIGHT???????? I hope you had it fenced off with a security guard.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jul 7, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> I looked at your website and the pics on the right hand side. You left a tree with a undercut and a partial backcut OVERNIGHT???????? I hope you had it fenced off with a security guard.



Yeah I was thinking that and my gosh I would have had that down in 15 minutes


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 7, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> I looked at your website and the pics on the right hand side. You left a tree with a undercut and a partial backcut OVERNIGHT???????? I hope you had it fenced off with a security guard.





ropensaddle said:


> Yeah I was thinking that and my gosh I would have had that down in 15 minutes




Holy crap even if you had to climb it, you could climb, limb it out, get down and drop in less time then cutting them damn wedges took.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 7, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> I looked at your website and the pics on the right hand side. You left a tree with a undercut and a partial backcut OVERNIGHT???????? I hope you had it fenced off with a security guard.


:agree2::agree2::censored: :agree2:


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 21, 2009)

Ok, here are pics from one of the trees, they're all down safely, with 0 property damage. Yay! I took a couple days climbing and stuff to get a real good feel for it. I gotta say after a while it's not too bad. Stihl, I get what you're saying about the leg shake thing. I have no idea why it happened, I wasn't that high, or anything, just started wobbling. lol 

I've a couple questions about this. All my stumps look almost identical, however, one of them has like 2 really long splinters on the butt of the tree. why did that happen? Also, do these look ok, or what can I do differently?

Thanks guys,

Jeff


----------



## outofmytree (Jul 21, 2009)

Congrats on the safe finish. Everyone has to start somewhere and despite that I would always recommend training first, at least you took the time to ask some intelligent questions and then went nice and slow.

Welcome to the "I got sawdust in my undies" club.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jul 21, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Ok, here are pics from one of the trees, they're all down safely, with 0 property damage. Yay! I took a couple days climbing and stuff to get a real good feel for it. I gotta say after a while it's not too bad. Stihl, I get what you're saying about the leg shake thing. I have no idea why it happened, I wasn't that high, or anything, just started wobbling. lol
> 
> I've a couple questions about this. All my stumps look almost identical, however, one of them has like 2 really long splinters on the butt of the tree. why did that happen? Also, do these look ok, or what can I do differently?
> 
> ...







I have climbed many thousands of trees and occasionally on removals wearing gaffs mine still shake really don't know the cause though. The stump in your pic is fine good depth, good level cuts but the hinge is not real straight, indicating the use of a saw too small to cut all the way across the tree.


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 21, 2009)

That's correct about the length of the saw. The smallest diameter base tree was 49.5". Largest 58ish. I couldn't get all the way in 1 shot. I "scored a line all the way around side to side of my face cut. So I could tell if it was gonna be straight or not. That way I could adjust before cutting the tree. Make sense? Since I knew it was bigger than the bar I wanted it level. Is there a better way? Also, how could I make my hinge straighter? Just better aim? Thanks.


----------



## Tree Pig (Jul 21, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Stihl, I get what you're saying about the leg shake thing. I have no idea why it happened, I wasn't that high, or anything, just started wobbling. lol
> 
> Jeff



Its your body over producing adrenaline, just like after shooting a nice buck or whatever. I still get it at times but its not overpowering like it use to be.

Nice job by the way, keep safe


----------



## True Blue Sam (Jul 22, 2009)

*Way to go!*



Garden Of Eden said:


> Ok, here are pics from one of the trees, they're all down safely, with 0 property damage. Yay! I took a couple days climbing and stuff to get a real good feel for it. I gotta say after a while it's not too bad. Stihl, I get what you're saying about the leg shake thing. I have no idea why it happened, I wasn't that high, or anything, just started wobbling. lol
> 
> I've a couple questions about this. All my stumps look almost identical, however, one of them has like 2 really long splinters on the butt of the tree. why did that happen? Also, do these look ok, or what can I do differently?
> 
> ...


You get splinters and wood pulled when the hinge is a bit thicker than optimum, or when the face closes on a narrow front opening. It's not a problem for tree removal work, and a thick hinge keeps your tree standing securely while you work. Too thick, and you will work harder wedging to the tipping point. Splinter and wood pull is bad if you are cutting grade or better logs, but since you are not doing that, don't worry about it now. Straight cuts on the front and back of the hinge are not difficult to master. Go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EdOL3mWsZg Using your dogs to anchor the saw will really help you.

A wide face angle on the front will keep some trees glued to the stump all the way to the ground like this cottonwood:View attachment 104565


Others, like this black oak are a bit more brittle, and will break loose every time. The guy with the chainsaw in this photo had the natural ability to punch through on a straight line in one try, and make a perfect hinge every time. View attachment 104566



If you can do that, it's great, but be careful until you have the skill level, or you can blow out your hinge. View attachment 104568
IF you do this on the heavy side of the tre, you are probably OK, and can support it with a wedge. If you do this on the tensioned side, you have some major regrouping to do.

You did a great job getting those trees on the ground, and you have really bumped up your knowledge level. Keep up the good work!

The attachments don't seem to be working. Go Here to see the three photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/davidn.23skidoo/StumpPhotosEtc#


----------



## Garden Of Eden (Jul 22, 2009)

True Blue Sam said:


> You get splinters and wood pulled when the hinge is a bit thicker than optimum, or when the face closes on a narrow front opening. It's not a problem for tree removal work, and a thick hinge keeps your tree standing securely while you work. Too thick, and you will work harder wedging to the tipping point. Splinter and wood pull is bad if you are cutting grade or better logs, but since you are not doing that, don't worry about it now. Straight cuts on the front and back of the hinge are not difficult to master. Go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EdOL3mWsZg Using your dogs to anchor the saw will really help you.
> 
> A wide face angle on the front will keep some trees glued to the stump all the way to the ground like this cottonwood:View attachment 104565
> 
> ...



I actually have a lot of customers who want to board out the logs. This guy wanted 22 foot logs. I just was curious why that happened like that. Now I know. I did one today with what I thought to be a real narrow hinge, but it broke real clean. 

Also, I see a lot of guys use rope come-alongs. Normally if I can I anchor it to the one side and pull opposite of that so the tree doesn't fall on me, but on my face cut which is between the anchor direction and the pull direction. But I hesitate to pull a tree if I don't have to. Is that smart?


----------



## True Blue Sam (Jul 22, 2009)

*Pulling*

As Ropensaddle pointed out, pulling can save hard wedging work. The guys with experience with winches, etc., need to weigh in here. I am a wedge pounder.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jul 22, 2009)

Yup I use this on my bucket no wedges for me You are doing fine though now gets you a big saw and bar so you can cut all the way through! Yes I always kerf a line to know where I want my back cut too but with a bar that goes through or at least mostly through makes having a good clean hinge easier and straighter but you did well:clap


----------



## BC WetCoast (Jul 23, 2009)

The next thing to learn if you are cutting for maximum grade is the Humbolt cut, where the wedge of the face cut comes out of the stump rather than the butt log.


----------



## outofmytree (Jul 24, 2009)

GoE I always put a rope on a stick that I have *ANY* doubts about. If you pass it around the trunk and push it up with a rake or lean a ladder aginst the tree and push it up from there you will get all the leverage you need for most modest sticks. Down the track your "eye" will improve and you will need to use rope less and less but for the moment, the 5 minutes it takes to put that rope on could save you hundreds or even thousands of dollars in property damage.

Once again, kudos to you for asking questions. This will be the cheapest education you have ever had.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 24, 2009)

*Humbolt cut*



BC WetCoast said:


> The next thing to learn if you are cutting for maximum grade is the *Humbolt cut*, where the wedge of the face cut comes out of the stump rather than the butt log.



A "fairly" good general reference for the humbolt cut:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/humbolt_top_cuts.html

Plus a "clarification":

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/sections/directives/log_backcuts_cpl2122.html

A broader reference for the other cuts:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/notches.html


----------

