# Do Horses count?



## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 10, 2016)

Not that I know much about horses, farming or electric to of which I am having problems at this juncture.

See what happened is that I had to move all my tree equipment off my property so I found a horse farm up the road that rented me half a tennis court, the other half was strewn with manure and over grown trees.

I have been there about 2 years and have cleared the rest of the tennis court pad ( even cut the net poles down). Yesterday I cleaned out the hay barn. Lots of rats.

They have been letting me use the property at my disposal for my little tree company and I have been doing maintenance work to which there is a lot considering the place is about let gone to hell. EVERYTHING is messed up. I call it "farmy" 

I just got suckered into replacing the water heater in the stall barn and its going just like I thought...

I mean just trying to get to the old heater you have to cross large rats, thick cobwebs under the silo into the darkness where there is only one way out.

But the electric has me stumped. The old heater seemed to run on a 2 wire 220 line but the heater they gave me is a little tankless heater that needs 10/2 with ground all the way back to its own 30 amp breaker. I was wondering if there was a way to do that with the old 220 line.

Truth is the place is a wreck, the hole the old heater is in a man shouldn't go unless he was going to kill everything else that was living in there. The owner is trying to do it cheap. I was thinking she would get me something that would fit right in. I think she paid 100 bucks for this tankless water heater that says its good for a bathroom sink.

Why something that small would need its own dedicated 30 amp line I don't know. I would be scare it would melt if it reall got that hot.

I never even heard of a 2 wire 220 line. I have been trying to clear the old hay and cobwebs to see if they cut the ground where I can't readily see.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 10, 2016)

Is there a "farmy" thread where we can all talk about how to rig farms up? I need some technical "farmy" advice.

Also the rats.

I bet those rats have years of food stored.


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## Marshy (Nov 10, 2016)

Is it even possible to have 220 service with a two wire? I thought you needed 3 wires for 220. 

I'm not an electron or an electrician so i can't help much, sorry.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 12, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Is it even possible to have 220 service with a two wire? I thought you needed 3 wires for 220.
> 
> I'm not an electron or an electrician so i can't help much, sorry.




Right! From what I could see of the cut wires covered in thick old cobwebs around the old heater there is a red and black out of the heater and what look like a black and white dangling around it. The heater was disconnected because it is shot to hell.

Due to the heaters always rusting in that dank hole the people got a plastic tankless variety which runs on 120 so I thought I could plug it in to the ground fault receptacle there. No. It needs a 10 gauge 3 conductor back to a 30 amp 110 breaker.

Well after getting it all hooked up I found that out. But I did clean more filth and rat **** away from the wire coming out of the old heater and saw the ground wire from the old 220 line had been cut down under the insulation.

Good news... I think. Its a 10 gauge wire. I think I can swap out the 220 breaker for a 110 line on a 30 amp. and wire everything up like it should be. The only question I have is if the panel can handle a 30 amp breaker. I need to find out to be sure. I will ask UNC.


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## Marshy (Nov 12, 2016)

30 amp should take two spots in the box so as long as there is room for the 30 amp switch and your total draw doesn't exceed the main (100 or 200) amp breaker you should be fine. Even then, what the odds all loss will draw max amps at the same time? If there's room add it. Just me $0.02.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 12, 2016)

In theory a 240v water heater could work on just 2 wires, but it wouldn't be code legal as it would be just grounded through the water/water pipes at best.

Romex wire has a ground, so like a 10/2 is 2 current wires and a ground. Can be used for 240 or 120v. Lot of 240v stuff now though needs 4 wires, 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 19, 2016)

I am trying not to leave a mess in this lady's box.


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## Mycrossover (Jul 23, 2018)

You only need 2 wires to run a single phase 220 device. They are both hot and there is no neutral. HOWEVER, the third wire is a ground that grounds the case of the device in the event of anything hot in the device making contact with the case and then tbrough you to make a lethal path to ground. This way the leak goes straight to ground and not through you. For any equipment and especially outdoor or wet environments it is essential. Will it work without a ground? Absolutely. Should you do it? Absolutely not.


Marshy said:


> Is it even possible to have 220 service with a two wire? I thought you needed 3 wires for 220.
> 
> I'm not an electron or an electrician so i can't help much, sorry.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## VirginiaIron (Feb 26, 2019)

Mine could not count, but they seemed smart enough that they could. Smile


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## esshup (Mar 1, 2019)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I am trying not to leave a mess in this lady's box.




LOL, I ain't touching that one!!


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## esshup (Mar 1, 2019)

I replaced a Natural Gas 115v (to run the fan and controls) whole house tankless water heater at my house last month. The one that I had froze and burst the heat exchanger. The water damaged the smart gas valve and buying a new one was actually less expensive than buying parts and fixing the old one. I found out that if I were to plug it into a GFCI without having the gas line (3/4" black pipe hard line to the heater, no flex pipe) attached, the GFCI would pop. 

When you install the new one, I don't know if the size of the water lines matter with that point of use model. The whole house one that I have requires 3/4" lines, not 1/2", AND 3/4" gas line too.


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