# Is this a good cut?



## ShearHeadMS (Jun 2, 2013)

Hey guys, been practicing my technique and was wondering if this was a decent cut

View attachment 298369


View attachment 298370


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## Ruster22 (Jun 2, 2013)

opcorn:


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## Cfaller (Jun 2, 2013)

Um, undercut looks fine. The back cut and holding wood needs some work. Try to get some stump shot an inch or two. Same with your holding wood all the way across the stump. This should handle 80% of the tree most of us cut.


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## lfnh (Jun 3, 2013)

ShearHeadMS said:


> Hey guys, been practicing my technique and was wondering if this was a decent cut



depends.

what was growing on the stump before it got cut ?


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## imagineero (Jun 3, 2013)

What happened to the holding wood?


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2013)

Not bad. What kind of fellerbuncher did you use? 

Seriously, where's your hinge wood? How about a pic of the butt end of the log.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 3, 2013)

How far to the left did it pull and did it launch your saw as it went over?

nice and level though...


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## lfnh (Jun 3, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> How far to the left did it pull and did it launch your saw as it went over?
> 
> nice and level though...



lol, the saw got launched alright -over the wall into the 880 thread in chainsaws

are those skid marks from some butt sliding down that there face ?


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## RandyMac (Jun 3, 2013)

lfnh said:


> lol, the saw got launched alright -over the wall into the 880 thread in chainsaws
> 
> *are those skid marks from some butt sliding down that there face *?



Ya know, a phrase that that, anywhere else....


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 3, 2013)

did the tree land about 10 oclock of the face cut ?


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## bustedup (Jun 3, 2013)

May be wrong but something ain't right


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## rwoods (Jun 3, 2013)

More information can be found here: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/237685.htm Ron


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## bitzer (Jun 3, 2013)

If you were trying to swing it from right to left I'd say you did alright with the Dutchman. After reading the other thread I'd guess it was unintentional though. If you are going to pull a tree you generally want to keep a decent hinge all the way across. Unless you really know what you are doing. Hey it worked out though right? Its really amazing what can be gotten away with when falling timber. Usually its just dumb luck when something works out like in this scenario. Luck runs out eventually. Nice level cuts. By the stump skids it looks like it came off a little right of the lay yet though.


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## Oldtimer (Jun 3, 2013)

You guys call it "holding wood" I call it hinge wood. 

An old buck told me one day- "Dubby, cut that back cut SLOW! Let the tree have time to start leaning."

This is sage advice for trees that don't already have a good lean.. Prevents some scary situations from cutting the tree off the stump.


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## bustedup (Jun 3, 2013)

I looked at the other pics and must admit I did think that stick had been dropped and the stump doctored lol or that it had been cut by a buncher lol now I a thinking that you was a lucky boy in that one. I think the cable kinda got ya outta it. I'm guessing that your holding/hinge was that small post slightly of centre??? ya really want and need to have way more than that.


Bitz is spot on if ya going to pull sticks ya really need more hinge/holding wood and I would add a wide open face to give ya self the best chance. Also rig em high. ya get better control and commit the stick to the face with less force.


your back cut was level and that is good. but be careful if ya using dutch's.


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## lfnh (Jun 3, 2013)

bitzer said:


> If you were trying to swing it from right to left I'd say you did alright with the Dutchman. After reading the other thread I'd guess it was unintentional though. If you are going to pull a tree you generally want to keep a decent hinge all the way across. Unless you really know what you are doing. Hey it worked out though right? Its really amazing what can be gotten away with when falling timber. Usually its just dumb luck when something works out like in this scenario. *Luck runs out eventually*. Nice level cuts. By the stump skids it looks like it came off a little right of the lay yet though.



yup.

kinda like "deserves got nothing to do with it".

first thoughts were the cable was low, the pull hard, and didn't allow dutchman to work as intended and just pulled the stem foward off the stump.

not seeing what was standing on the stump to begin with just makes it hard to tell.
there is a hell of a sweep(s) in the top part of that tree, so it was loaded at some point.


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## jrcat (Jun 3, 2013)

It was one of them fancy new bunchers...a 3 piece .. consists of 4x4 tractor, cable and a hand held bar saw.. kinda hard to run all by ones self ..


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## bustedup (Jun 3, 2013)

If that stick was dead as said in the other thread ............is that not even more reason to have a decent hinge ??? 


I was always taught never ever trust a dead stick as hinge wood can't be relied on. It was also thumped into me swinging a dead stick ain't the best idea (ok I will give on the time dead and condition of wood makes a diff etc etc) and if they have to be swung rigging em high steep, deep and wide is the way to go (imo)


I do stand by what I said earlier the op was a lucky boy that cable (even to low) prolly gotta him outta the crap.


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## jrcat (Jun 3, 2013)

A qoute from randy on another thread .....I'd 'chair it, just for the noise of it..


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## ShearHeadMS (Jun 3, 2013)

We went as high with the cable as we could, I'd say the tree went were I wanted it to but I didn't leave very much holding wood, were you see the holding wood was when it startd to lift, the tractor did the rest. Didn't mess up my saw or have any issues with putting the tree down. I guess I was just really nervous on this one


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## imagineero (Jun 3, 2013)

At the risk of stating the obvious, once you cut through your hinge you no longer have a hinge, and you have lost control of the tree. There are special circumstances where you want to cut the hinge - to swing, jump or spin the tree.... But those are cuts for experienced fallers. They're most often done to save the tree for production purposes. Only very rarely would someone use a cut like that when trying to fall a tree an keep it clear of property etc, because they're not super accurate cuts. As Gerry Beranek would say 'to be used in matters of convenience, not in matters if necessity'.


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2013)

The stump always tells the story.


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## ShearHeadMS (Jun 3, 2013)

Hey if I didn't want my feeling hurt I wouldn't have posted hahaha, I'd rather have someone tell me it was bad and never do it again than say well this, this and this was justified. From now on I'll stick to the trees I know I can handle with less danger, don't fell alot of 40+ trees down here in the south hahah


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2013)

ShearHeadMS said:


> Hey if I didn't want my feeling hurt I wouldn't have posted hahaha, I'd rather have someone tell me it was bad and never do it again than say well this, this and this was justified. From now on I'll stick to the trees I know I can handle with less danger, don't fell alot of 40+ trees down here in the south hahah



Don't worry about it. You'll learn. You have to be really brave to post stump pictures. :msp_biggrin:


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## imagineero (Jun 4, 2013)

ShearHeadMS said:


> Hey if I didn't want my feeling hurt I wouldn't have posted hahaha, I'd rather have someone tell me it was bad and never do it again than say well this, this and this was justified. From now on I'll stick to the trees I know I can handle with less danger, don't fell alot of 40+ trees down here in the south hahah



Alright, I'll have another bite then. 

Yes, it was horrible.

The F&L forum isn't the best place to ask this sort of question, but unfortunately we don't have a 'tree falling 101' forum. Maybe that's a good thing ;-) There are a small handfull of general rules for falling trees, and about 50,000 exceptions to those rules. The average firewood cutter is probably going to be fine with the handfull of rules, but the trouble is he often doesn't have the experience to assess when it's an exceptional case. The reason why you'll have a hard time getting a straight answer here, is that most of the guys in this forum are professional forestry workers, or have been at some stage in their lives. For these guys, it isn't as simple as just getting the tree on the ground. 

Firstly, they've got to be productive. That means getting the tree on the ground in one piece, without breaking it. Then, they've got to get it down in such a way that it lines up with all the other trees so it can be handled efficiently. Then, they may have to swing it through places without damaging leave trees. Finally, they've got to be quick about it or they aren't going to make any money. For these, and other reasons, professional fallers often drop trees using methods that are not the safest or easiest way to get the tree on the ground. Because of that, they often will leave some real weird looking stumps.... just like the one you posted. The difference is that they did it on purpose, and for a reason. The cards are stacked in their favor for pushing the envelope too; they may be cutting many thousands of trees, in the same location, of the same species, and with room to work. That lets them get a feel for how conditions are for that species and growing condition.

But getting back to your stump, if your intention was a simple straight drop with a standard hinge, then it's a fail. You failed to keep your bar parallel to the face during the backcut, and consequently cut right through your hinge. That's something a professional faller may do intentionally for a specific purpose, but I'm guessing it was unintentional on your part. If you cut through your hinge, you lose control of the tree. The tree may swing wildly off to the side, or if it's a back leaner and you're pulling it over, and it hasn't yet commited to the fall then the pull cable may pull the butt right off the stump, particularly if you're pulling with a powerful source like a winch or vehicle and the cable is low in proprtion to the centre of balance of the tree. If it does pull the butt off the stump, the tree is going over backwards, onto you or whatever property is behind it (if there was nothing behind it, you would have just fallen it with the lay, right?). 

Even if the tree has committed to the fall, if your bar tip has gone through the hinge as yours appears to have, then the tree can see-saw your saw, and send it flying. Possibly with your attached if you care for it more than you ought to. 

Side-stepping, for a moment, the issue of which face cut is best for the task, the question of the percentage of face to holding wood, and the question of stump throw, For the most part you're well served by making whichever face you execute best, 1/3~3/8 the depth of the tree, and leaving around 10% holding wood, parallel as shown below. These are all acceptable stumps.



















Take a look at this thread for some good general advice on improving your cutting technique also;

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/233490.htm

Shaun


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 4, 2013)

pretty well said imag. shear, I cut the hinge all the time but... as stated for a reason. never while pushing or pulling. if you had left some hinge the cut wouldn't be so bad. nerves can hurt ya, try ta stay calm and remember what your doin and why. hey we jus tryin ta help ya, don't take this as crit. so much as free lessons. :biggrin:


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## bustedup (Jun 4, 2013)

I meant no offense to ya bro, I guess when ya ask ya get answers sometimes they hurt but I'd say take it and mull it over think what was said and what you did. Most of what was said was from a safety and control angle (your safety), not a hit at ya.


I guess pro fallers have seen way to many accidents and folks hurt and I'd guess we all shudder when we see something that could have led to injury.


Hey if ya stood 10 fallers under that stick ya might well have got 10 slightly differing methods lol.


I bet if I posted pics on here I'd get the crap shot outta me for it lol 


You'll get there keep it simple and safe


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## ShearHeadMS (Jun 4, 2013)

My feelings ant hurt guys! I'm happy I'm getting the answers I need, I rather me cussed out for doing something wrong than be told it was ok and get myself killed!!


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## bustedup (Jun 4, 2013)

ShearHeadMS said:


> My feelings ant hurt guys! I'm happy I'm getting the answers I need, I rather me cussed out for doing something wrong than be told it was ok and get myself killed!!



Welcome to the logging world lol ........but we don't cuss lol (we get banned of here lol)


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## roberte (Jun 4, 2013)

none of us were there. you made it back to a keyboard, so it was ok


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## imagineero (Jun 5, 2013)

roberte said:


> none of us were there. you made it back to a keyboard, so it was ok



That's kind of like saying "well, you played russian roulette and nobody got hurt, so it can't be that dangerous". 

Tree falling is a dangerous game, and near enough is not good enough. Some guys come on here posting pics ostensibly for advice when all they're looking for is a pat on the back. They then get their back up when people offer some useful advice. The OP came asking for critique, and welcomed it... which is the right attitude if you want to live a long life. There's many lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience on this forum, a lot of it specific to regions which is highly valuable information. Anyone hoping to improve themselves in the area of falling would do well to post here, people are generous of their knowledge. 

Shaun


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## roberte (Jun 5, 2013)

imagineero said:


> That's kind of like saying "well, you played russian roulette and nobody got hurt, so it can't be that dangerous".
> 
> Tree falling is a dangerous game, and near enough is not good enough. Some guys come on here posting pics ostensibly for advice when all they're looking for is a pat on the back. They then get their back up when people offer some useful advice. The OP came asking for critique, and welcomed it... which is the right attitude if you want to live a long life. There's many lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience on this forum, a lot of it specific to regions which is highly valuable information. Anyone hoping to improve themselves in the area of falling would do well to post here, people are generous of their knowledge.
> 
> Shaun



I suppose that's one way to look at what I wrote, fine. I wasn't there to see all the conditions of the cut. The OP says in subsequent posts that they pulled it over? Plenty of comments on cutting thru the hinge and holding wood.


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## HuskStihl (Jun 5, 2013)

It's actually a pretty amazing balancing act. Before I found out about the cable I couldn't believe that tree didn't sit back (no wedges), or go forward long before all the holding qood was cut. I assume it was backleaning gently, because if there was any big force on the low cable it woulda jumped, and probably not in a nice way. Any less cable pull it would have sat back, and maybe gone sideways. I am almost certainly the worst faller hanging out on the forum, but that may be perfect for this case. 
Cables are great for a little insurance, but I bet if you had pounded a few wedges into the back cut you could have lifted this one over. That being said, I have never made a gunning cut and back cut so level and meet so perfectly.


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## redprospector (Jun 9, 2013)

ShearHeadMS said:


> Hey guys, been practicing my technique and was wondering if this was a decent cut
> 
> View attachment 298369
> 
> ...



A picture's worth a thousand words.







Ok guy's, let me have it. :msp_rolleyes:

Andy


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## imagineero (Jun 9, 2013)

Yeah, you could do better. I'm pretty sure the higher side of the hinge wood is 1/64" smaller the low side, but I can't be completely sure. Have you got some verniers? 

Shaun


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## redprospector (Jun 9, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Yeah, you could do better. I'm pretty sure the higher side of the hinge wood is 1/64" smaller the low side, but I can't be completely sure. Have you got some verniers?
> 
> Shaun



You could be right Shaun, my eye's aren't as good as they once were. 
We have absolutly no market for much of anything right now. That's just an old White Pine snag on a little 6 acre job I did. That one will be firewood...but a man should take pride in everything he does.

Andy


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## rwoods (Jun 9, 2013)

Andy, all I can say is if you had used a bird's beak face with the proper angles and a corresponding proper sloping back cut (aka a "farmer's cut") your stump would have been parrallel with the ground and could have even been flush with the ground. :msp_rolleyes:

Seriously, I like your lines. Just wish I could show some like it, but somehow on slopes my cuts almost always tend to run in the direction of the slope despite my efforts to make them level.

Ron


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## redprospector (Jun 9, 2013)

Here's another one...with a little snipe.




I hate trying to put them across something like this, but there was no where else to put it.




Andy


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## jeramie23 (Jun 11, 2013)

id say u need to work on ur cutting skills by the time u smash a few saws u will learn how to bore cut its fairly simple notch 1/4 of the tree pull the saw out stick it in behind ur notch and saw into it leave an inch of holdind wood no more so it dont bust the tree and saw backwards and leave urself about 4 inch of a trigger to cut then step back and cut the trigger biggerthe timber easier to cut . ive also cut trees by 4 legging them do not notch take the saw stick it in the front were u would notch bore straight into it cut back right to left leaving 4 inches on each side and repeat that on the back side take the saw cut the legs on the back and the 4 inches of wood left on each side of the front of the tree will guide it were u want it not for small trees.


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## imagineero (Jun 11, 2013)

There you go Andy, you've been educated 

Shaun


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## jrcat (Jun 11, 2013)

opcorn:


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## RandyMac (Jun 11, 2013)

Oh yeah, the expert has spoken.


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## bustedup (Jun 11, 2013)

Why are there so many folks talking bout falling without a face cut.......I guess I missed something


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## Gologit (Jun 11, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> id say u need to work on ur cutting skills by the time u smash a few saws u will learn how to bore cut its fairly simple notch 1/4 of the tree pull the saw out stick it in behind ur notch and saw into it leave an inch of holdind wood no more so it dont bust the tree and saw backwards and leave urself about 4 inch of a trigger to cut then step back and cut the trigger biggerthe timber easier to cut . ive also cut trees by 4 legging them do not notch take the saw stick it in the front were u would notch bore straight into it cut back right to left leaving 4 inches on each side and repeat that on the back side take the saw cut the legs on the back and the 4 inches of wood left on each side of the front of the tree will guide it were u want it not for small trees.



You're kidding, right?


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## jrcat (Jun 11, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> id say u need to work on ur cutting skills by the time u smash a few saws u will learn how to bore cut its fairly simple notch 1/4 of the tree pull the saw out stick it in behind ur notch and saw into it leave an inch of holdind wood no more so it dont bust the tree and saw backwards and leave urself about 4 inch of a trigger to cut then step back and cut the trigger biggerthe timber easier to cut . ive also cut trees by 4 legging them do not notch take the saw stick it in the front were u would notch bore straight into it cut back right to left leaving 4 inches on each side and repeat that on the back side take the saw cut the legs on the back and the 4 inches of wood left on each side of the front of the tree will guide it were u want it not for small trees.



With this style of falling, the theory of natural selection will soon visit you......


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## bustedup (Jun 11, 2013)

Health insurance might be well advised to lol


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## jeramie23 (Jun 11, 2013)

well apparently none of you have cut venear logs before so idk LOL I Log everday for a living so for me those are the safest cuts ur not riding a tree out when it blows up on you been there screw that..basical what iam saying is cut the center out first then cut the trigger simple no blowed uped trees or split and it goes were every you want regardles if it is a normal hinge or you us the front of the tree as ur hinge works the same


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## bustedup (Jun 11, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> well apparently none of you have cut venear logs before so idk LOL I Log everday for a living so for me those are the safest cuts ur not riding a tree out when it blows up on you been there screw that..basical what iam saying is cut the center out first then cut the trigger simple no blowed uped trees or split and it goes were every you want regardles if it is a normal hinge or you us the front of the tree as ur hinge works the same



stump jumping isn't safe .........and there are better ways to put sticks on the deck and safer and yes I have cut for veneer.


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## bustedup (Jun 11, 2013)

and the front of a stick does not work the same as a hinge or proper face


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## jrcat (Jun 11, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> well apparently none of you have cut venear logs before so idk LOL I Log everday for a living so for me those are the safest cuts ur not riding a tree out when it blows up on you been there screw that..basical what iam saying is cut the center out first then cut the trigger simple no blowed uped trees or split and it goes were every you want regardles if it is a normal hinge or you us the front of the tree as ur hinge works the same



I've cut plenty of veneer. Either I throw in a conventional face and gut the heart out or a humboldt and gut the heart either way, I still have plenty of hinge wood and very little to no fiber pull.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 11, 2013)

well, here's the deal. I have cut vneer timber for 24 years and yes I cut differently than most on here. however the methods explained above don't sound right to me either. ya came on a little strong man. these guys are loggers, don't forget that and ya make lots of friends. some of what ya said I have herd of and done. no they not safe methods you and I both know that. we do use them sometimes to save out the tricky ones. only cutters with extraordinary expieriance do these things and then with a certain amount of risk. we must all be carful giving out advice, as we never really know who will read it. wew! all that crap said, stay and bs with us. ya might even learn sumthin.... I have


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## redprospector (Jun 12, 2013)

imagineero said:


> There you go Andy, you've been educated
> 
> Shaun



Hahaha. I feel so enlightened. 
Every once in a while there comes along an expert that only has one or 2 tools in their box...& one or 2 cell's in their brain. 

Andy


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## madhatte (Jun 12, 2013)

Risking life and limb for board-inches is silly when hingewood is so easy to preserve. "Veneer" is no excuse for dangerous practices.


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## redprospector (Jun 12, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> id say u need to work on ur cutting skills by the time u smash a few saws u will learn how to bore cut its fairly simple notch 1/4 of the tree pull the saw out stick it in behind ur notch and saw into it leave an inch of holdind wood no more so it dont bust the tree and saw backwards and leave urself about 4 inch of a trigger to cut then step back and cut the trigger biggerthe timber easier to cut . ive also cut trees by 4 legging them do not notch take the saw stick it in the front were u would notch bore straight into it cut back right to left leaving 4 inches on each side and repeat that on the back side take the saw cut the legs on the back and the 4 inches of wood left on each side of the front of the tree will guide it were u want it not for small trees.



Hahaha. I did most of my saw smashing better than 25 years ago, Stud. I did run over one with a trailer a few years ago though. 
You didn't put your age in your profile, so I don't know for sure, but I'd venture to guess by looking at your profile and your post's that I was falling timber when you were still crappin' yellow.
There are a few trees that need to be bore cut, but very few in my book.
Any one who gives advice saying that every tree needs a "notch"  1/4 the diameter of the tree, and one inch, no more, holding wood needs to re-evaluate their falling skills before giving advice to anyone.

You sound like a directional faller to me. Yep, whatever direction it's leaning, that's the direction it's falling. 

Andy


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## redprospector (Jun 12, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> well apparently none of you have cut venear logs before so idk LOL I Log everday for a living so for me those are the safest cuts ur not riding a tree out when it blows up on you been there screw that..basical what iam saying is cut the center out first then cut the trigger simple no blowed uped trees or split and it goes were every you want regardles if it is a normal hinge or you us the front of the tree as ur hinge works the same



Whoa there ol' buddy. Use the front of the tree as your hinge? Jeez o whiz! And you had the balls to tell me that I need to work on my falling skills? Hahaha
I really hope you survive long enough to learn.

Andy


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## madhatte (Jun 12, 2013)

redprospector said:


> I really hope you survive long enough to learn.



My sentiments exactly.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 12, 2013)

redprospector said:


> A picture's worth a thousand words.
> 
> 
> Ok guy's, let me have it. :msp_rolleyes:
> ...








View attachment 299810


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## imagineero (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm going to assume the majority of the trees in the background are growing vertically since that how it works in aus... I that's the case, the back cut is level, and the camera wasn't. Just sayin' ;-)

Shaun


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## KiwiBro (Jun 12, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I'm going to assume the majority of the trees in the background are growing vertically since that how it works in aus... I that's the case, the back cut is level, and the camera wasn't. Just sayin' ;-)
> 
> Shaun


I think you may be right. Andy, can you clear this up for us please? Did the sweat off your brow fall at your feet or two feet from the stump?


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## redprospector (Jun 12, 2013)

KiwiBro said:


> View attachment 299810



Haha. I was wondering how long it would take.
I don't remember if Shaun is right, and the camera was crooked or if the faller is crooked. 
At least it's not sloping down toward the hinge. Let's call it a reverse slopping back cut.
If the regular slopping back cut will help push a tree over, then the reverse slopping back cut should help the tree to levitate causing the tree to be easier to skid, causing less ground compaction.  

Andy


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## bitzer (Jun 12, 2013)

jeramie23 said:


> well apparently none of you have cut venear logs before so idk LOL I Log everday for a living so for me those are the safest cuts ur not riding a tree out when it blows up on you been there screw that..basical what iam saying is cut the center out first then cut the trigger simple no blowed uped trees or split and it goes were every you want regardles if it is a normal hinge or you us the front of the tree as ur hinge works the same



You do realize you're wasting an awful lot of time with all that poking around. Cut the ####er off the stump if you want to, just face it up and back cut it like a man. The VAST majority of hardwood timber does not need to be bore cut if you have any ####ing clue of what you are doing.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 12, 2013)

Seems to be an awful lot of people advocating the no face cut method of dropping trees. Personally I prefer to have some control as to where it is going, and I really don't like when it decides to chair. The face cut serves more purpose then just aiming the tree, it also reduces tension and compression. But what do I know.


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## roberte (Jun 12, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> Seems to be an awful lot of people advocating the no face cut method of dropping trees. Personally I prefer to have some control as to where it is going, and I really don't like when it decides to chair. The face cut serves more purpose then just aiming the tree, it also reduces tension and compression. But what do I know.



About as much as I do, which may or may not be anything.


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## bustedup (Jun 12, 2013)

Maybe Forest Gump opened a falling school lol...................cause no face....... life would be like his box of chocolates ........you never know what ya gonna get lol


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## HuskStihl (Jun 12, 2013)

What the heck is this "face cut" that y'all keep talking about?


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## jrcat (Jun 12, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> What the heck is this "face cut" that y'all keep talking about?



Can I whack em with some newspaper covered 404? Can I can I ?


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 12, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> What the heck is this "face cut" that y'all keep talking about?



i got a face cut shaving this morning


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 12, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Can I whack em with some newspaper covered 404? Can I can I ?



go for it


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## bustedup (Jun 12, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Can I whack em with some newspaper covered 404? Can I can I ?



ya need promoted to do that lol


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## bustedup (Jun 12, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> What the heck is this "face cut" that y'all keep talking about?



LOL ya been supping to much mellow yellow lol


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