# Gas or diesel



## firmwood (Feb 9, 2013)

Driving daily, 65 mile round trip. 

Ford aspire, manual, 42/46 on a good day. No payments, pl/pd. Hard to find parts, only reason I'm considering ditching it. 

Should I step to a jetta diesel w/manual gearbox? Or bandaid this aspire? I can do my own engine/transmission work. 

The pennies in gallon difference yield savings of a diesel mileage/torque/longevity? 

Thanks.


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## wampum (Feb 9, 2013)

firmwood said:


> Driving daily, 65 mile round trip.
> 
> Ford aspire, manual, 42/46 on a good day. No payments, pl/pd. Hard to find parts, only reason I'm considering ditching it.
> 
> ...



You do not say if you are talking new or used.If you are talking new consider that new Prius C it gets over 50MPG and comes well equipped for under 20 thousand.A new Jetta diesel will run around 23 thousand base.2 years ago we bought a new Prius after almost buying a Jetta.This Prius is a good car.By the way I am not an greeny.I am a cheapy who likes 50 MPG. I am also hearing good things about that new Ford Hybrid.


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## firmwood (Feb 9, 2013)

Good point. Sorry. Used. 3years min. I'm aiming for 5-6 years old. 

Installing main/rod bearings, milling heads, and facing/lapping valves and touching up seats are nothing new. Dropping a block to get bored and dipped is another day of the week. 

Gearboxes are a walk in the park. 

What I can do and know, I'm just not sure if it justifies moving to car payments with full coverage for a fuzz better of milage.


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## Garmins dad (Feb 9, 2013)

What's your time worth to ya??? New born in the house and 60 hour work week i say the gently used.. if 40 hour and lots of spare time. Keep fixen and have a beer (if you drink)..

edit.... 

If you can get it at 0 percent then giver.. but giving someone else money to get better milage... well.. your losing money...


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## promac850 (Feb 9, 2013)

Consider the Focus, Fiesta, or other small car. 

I laugh every time I see a Prius. It's hippie greenie car, period. Like the Insight or others. Even more laughs when I see a hippie greenie in one of those with bumper stickers claiming global warming and other BS, and it gets slightly infuriating if they have political stickers on it. Saw one today with the back of it completely covered with stickers promoting a certain POTUS of this time, and with all kinds of stickers regarding GW.

Yeah, I'm the guy that drives something that gets 17-20 mpg most of the time. The other car gets about 30 mpg, and is fuel injected in a way that few even know what the heck it is. Pruises are too damn slow, don't handle that great, nor have enough balls (nor traction, FWD) to tow more than a few hundred pounds.

Looking at selling a vehicle come spring, and picking up a different vehicle... and this one would be even older iron. IH, FTW.


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## bowtechmadman (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm a blue guy...love my jetta wagon w/ manual trans, getting from mid 40's mileage driving 80 miles a day. With that said if I was you and you feel you can keep the vehicle running and safe w/ doing the work yourself I'm not understanding the question. Keep driving it and keep saving till it can't be fixed anymore. Diesel fuel is going to cost you more per gallon than gas and you will not see any difference in mileage if you're getting mid 40's already.


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## firmwood (Feb 9, 2013)

Forgot to mention, I've collected 3 more gearboxes, 3 more complete cars, a 4th I've been picken parts from, and just about done redoing an engine I had kicking around for a spare. I'm getting mid 40s on a block/head with almost 380,000 miles, foot to the floor in every gear. 
I'm waiting for it to puke to drop in my next project, 
20 over, almost 10.8:1 after intake bleedoff, 0.050 off head, new valves, seats, guides, and went from 5cc to 3cc dished pistons. Clevites were ordered/bought after I pushed head through surface grinder, so hope I didn't get too wild on milling..... I spent a weekend while on standby and ported/polished. 

I was about to sell the whole mess, but you guys convinced me to stick with gas until bandaiding won't work no more.


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## Wagnerwerks (Feb 9, 2013)

When you get to the point you're looking for a diesel jetta, pm me and I can give you the ins and outs and best years/options. They're what I do.


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## Wagnerwerks (Feb 10, 2013)

Del_ said:


> I drive a 1999 Passat and get about 30 mpg around town and 36 to 38 on trips with the V-6 and manual transmission. It's a fun car to drive, too.
> 
> 
> This thread is ready for a derail...........please tell us about the diesel jetta and other VW diesels you are familar with. I'd love to have a little diesel pickup truck and have seen a few Rabbits but they worry me.
> ...



I work on lots of them. I'm the local diesel vw/mercedes guy. I just got into the mercedes stuff a few years ago, but my first car was a bug and it was all over from there. The best diesel car to grab right now is a 99.5-2005 with the alh tdi. They are capable of ridiculous mileage. My best buddy actually owned a diesel vw shop in atlanta Georgia with over 300 customers from 6 states around. We get into a bunch of projects and buy and sell a lot of dubs. 

If you want a caddy/truck, I recommend finding a clean example that has No Rust. One that someone tdi swapped already would be awesome. The older direct injection or older turbo diesel engines are great, but the power and mpgs isn't there. My friends 2000 jetta was on the brink of 300 ft/lb torque and was getting 61 mpg on the highway at 80mph trips. The older lighter rabbit body cars with the TDIs pull crazy mileage with tdi swaps. 

Maintenance is king with these cars. Timing belt jobs cost 750 from me, but are good for 100k miles. A lot of things go wrong on them and people complain, but these issues happen regularly at 150k plus. Not too shabby. 

If you have any questions about a specific car, let me know. I love these things and was previously occupied on the v-dub forums before this chainsaw thing bit..lol


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## MeanMark87 (Feb 10, 2013)

promac610 said:


> Consider the Focus, Fiesta, or other small car.
> 
> I laugh every time I see a Prius. It's hippie greenie car, period. Like the Insight or others. Even more laughs when I see a hippie greenie in one of those with bumper stickers claiming global warming and other BS, and it gets slightly infuriating if they have political stickers on it. Saw one today with the back of it completely covered with stickers promoting a certain POTUS of this time, and with all kinds of stickers regarding GW.
> 
> ...



Well, personally I don't get the outright hatred for the Prius just BECAUSE it's a Prius and a 'greenie car'. But what I do understand about them is the fact that the amount of pollution involved in making them is absurd compared to making a gas-engined car. Any CO2 savings you get out of the Prius being more efficient is cancelled out by the fact they are so wasteful to build and harmful to the environment. Near the factory where they make the battery packs for those cars, there's about a half-mile dead zone around it that looks like a moonscape.

I'd rather drive a conventional gas car or diesel that gets that same mileage. Plus you never have to worry about the batteries wearing out (which they will) and greatly reducing your range.


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## wampum (Feb 10, 2013)

promac610 said:


> Consider the Focus, Fiesta, or other small car.
> 
> I laugh every time I see a Prius. It's hippie greenie car, period. Like the Insight or others. Even more laughs when I see a hippie greenie in one of those with bumper stickers claiming global warming and other BS, and it gets slightly infuriating if they have political stickers on it. Saw one today with the back of it completely covered with stickers promoting a certain POTUS of this time, and with all kinds of stickers regarding GW.
> 
> ...



Sorry I do not agree,my Prius handles great will cruise at 70 no problem,last year went to Buffalo,stayed at 65 and got 65 MPG.Like I said I am not a greeny,my pre 2004 1/2 Cummins diesel does not have a lot of smog crap on it and I could care less. That International in the pick does not even know what smog is and I drive it every day in the summer.If I wanted to support a certain POTUS as you put it,I would drive a Volt,the car and company he pushed.I'll take 50 to 60 MPG all day,I could care less what others think of its speed or pep. If I want to tow,I have trucks for that.The Prius is to get the wife and me from point A to point B as cheap as we can.When the tires wear out I will use them to burn brush.Al Gore can suck eggs.


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## Arbonaut (Feb 11, 2013)

What you are doing to the Ford motor is far from a band aid. Hahahaa. Sounds good keep it. I was gonna say go for the Jetta, though. I was gonna get one, then went for the new Saturn in 2006. It was $9000 cheaper with an ecotech @ 34 MPG. Never been happy though. And hard to get parts? Haha. How about when they close the plant? Yeah. Volkswagon could become impossible to get parts for overnight.

The mental picture of Del_ driving an old Volkwagon Truck down to the bar to beat up rednecks is makin' me smile.


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## firmwood (Feb 11, 2013)

Unibody is what worries me.


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## promac850 (Feb 11, 2013)

MeanMark87 said:


> Well, personally I don't get the outright hatred for the Prius just BECAUSE it's a Prius and a 'greenie car'. But what I do understand about them is the fact that the amount of pollution involved in making them is absurd compared to making a gas-engined car. Any CO2 savings you get out of the Prius being more efficient is cancelled out by the fact they are so wasteful to build and harmful to the environment. Near the factory where they make the battery packs for those cars, there's about a half-mile dead zone around it that looks like a moonscape.
> 
> I'd rather drive a conventional gas car or diesel that gets that same mileage. Plus you never have to worry about the batteries wearing out (which they will) and greatly reducing your range.



This is another reason I do not like the Prius. Batteries are not environmentally friendly any way you cut it. Toxic waste is used to make them, and to break them down. 

Unfortunately, toxic waste is made making other stuff too. The base line is how much is made and put somewhere... some things make more than others.



wampum said:


> Sorry I do not agree,my Prius handles great will cruise at 70 no problem,last year went to Buffalo,stayed at 65 and got 65 MPG.Like I said I am not a greeny,my pre 2004 1/2 Cummins diesel does not have a lot of smog crap on it and I could care less. That International in the pick does not even know what smog is and I drive it every day in the summer.If I wanted to support a certain POTUS as you put it,I would drive a Volt,the car and company he pushed.I'll take 50 to 60 MPG all day,I could care less what others think of its speed or pep. If I want to tow,I have trucks for that.The Prius is to get the wife and me from point A to point B as cheap as we can.When the tires wear out I will use them to burn brush.Al Gore can suck eggs.



Alright... I'll let you off the hook since you said you burn tires, lol.


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## struggle (Feb 15, 2013)

We have about 5k miles on a 2013 jetta sportwagon TDI 6 spd manual. I'm very happy with it so far. I have read about some nightmare problems with the fuel system though.

We noow average winter driving all hills 20 miles one way at 40mpg. In summer we were getting pwards of 45.

I drove it on a two hour trip mostly flat and it averaged 47.

I personally like diesel over battery car. 

I considerd the volt but it seems way to costly to buy upfront and I think the resale on it would be terrible just like the prius has been u ntil fuel goes ssky high then I suppose they go up. I know right after the pedal issue dealers couldn't give them away.


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## Aldiehoggydoggy (Feb 15, 2013)

*Japanese 2wheeler*

My street bike holds 3.8 gallons and if i baby it i can go 150miles on a tank. I also have the option to go186mph on it. The fuel mileage suffers from the second option but will have ya +otstir:+ all at the same time


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## esshup (Feb 15, 2013)

I agree with Wagnerwerks. Maybe because I have a 2003 ALH Wagon? :msp_biggrin: But, since you can do the work yourself, and are getting in the upper 40's, you're good with what you have.

I'm not against hybrids, they have their place. Longer trips, steady state driving, you can't beat a diesel. Stop-n-go slow speeds city driving, you can't beat a hybrid (although I don't like the longevity/replacement cost of the battery).

I like the towing capacity of the diesel vs. the hybrid too. (be nice, there's electric brakes on the trailer, the bed is 81" wide. :msp_wink






Wagnerwerks, since you are more familiar with the cars than I am, I've got a transmission question for ya.

2003 ALH motor, basically stock O2J manual 5-speed (dieselgeek short shift, Peloquin, .658 5th gear upgrade). Where the 2nd gear fork goes thru the trans case, there is some movement, and downshifting from 5th, 4th or 3rd  to 2nd is a real PITA compared to when it was newer (234K on it). Does that area of the trans case have a replaceable bushing, or is it time for a new case? Upshifting from 1st to 2nd is fine.


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## firmwood (Feb 15, 2013)

esshup said:


> 2003 ALH motor, basically stock O2J manual 5-speed (dieselgeek short shift, Peloquin, .658 5th gear upgrade). Where the 2nd gear fork goes thru the trans case, there is some movement, and downshifting from 5th, 4th or 3rd to 2nd is a real PITA compared to when it was newer (234K on it). Does that area of the trans case have a replaceable bushing, or is it time for a new case? Upshifting from 1st to 2nd is fine.



I had issues with a Nissan gearbox, no fix, bought some bushing stock, case of beer, and busted out some lathe and caliper work... 


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## firmwood (Aug 11, 2013)

She finally burned through a 2nd valve. No surprise, I already ground off more meat from when I had head off and touched up valves from first burn. $20 head gasket and 94,800 later, burned a 2nd...hehehe... 

Couple weekends ago I swapped block with this crazy head mill idea that I hope worked. And it did sorta... 

Milled 048 off head
020 over, plus moved from 5cc to 3cc dish aluminum. 

I'm sure I lost a cc on chambers. I think they ended up being 27cc after shave with old ground valves? I'm not certain. Too many brews. 

Ported exhaust runners , polished chambers, 35hrs just with most done at work on my 'paid' breaks, so I made out like a fat rat on that one, I shined that dude I could use it as a mirror and pick me teeth clean... new guides and exhaust valves, 

Coldest plugs, and 2* back from factory 10* base advance, still wants to rattle randomly when ecm calls for more advance playing over 4000... Oh well, it should manage if driven normally. Oh, 92/93 octane too. I guessed and got way to wild on the head shave.... 

I'm busting 55/57 range for mpg. 

Need to buy an adjustable gear, I took off so much meat, the cam gear walked the belt, and now factory timing needs to be disregarded. I had to jump a tooth to get it to fire, but a full tooth skip is too much, angerly growls through the intake and looses nearly all top end. I get that straightened 60mpg I'm sure is easily achievable. 

$620 total for parts. Including hanging new aluminum on rods and block dip and bore. I did my own head work, assembly, and swap. 

Figured someone would be curious. 

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## EXCALIBER (Aug 14, 2013)

Think my next car is going to be the new Chevy diesel they have out. I think it was supposed to get like 48 mpg, plus they will sell millions of them making parts easier to find then the German brand. I don't like Prius cars either! The batteries cost more to replace than the whole car! Now add into that that they don't get very good mileage compared to all the other cars, they get about the same unless you are just driving short distances in town. I pass one every so often on the way to work doing 45 mph in a 65 with a sticker that say's don't complain I'm getting 70mpg, and all I can think is yeah right he is, in his dreams! Keep picturing a slight slip of my steering wheel and me running him over! Oh also they just did a study on cars vs people being jerks, and the BMW had the highest rating for jerk owners, and the Prius was second! Not saying you are just because you own one just saying what the study said, so no shooting the messenger!


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## firmwood (Aug 14, 2013)

EXCALIBER said:


> Not saying you are just because you own one




....... I drive a 1995 aspire, or we're both confused... 


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## Goose IBEW (Oct 9, 2013)

firmwood said:


> She finally burned through a 2nd valve. No surprise, I already ground off more meat from when I had head off and touched up valves from first burn. $20 head gasket and 94,800 later, burned a 2nd...hehehe...
> 
> Couple weekends ago I swapped block with this crazy head mill idea that I hope worked. And it did sorta...
> 
> ...



You have WAAAYYY too much talent on your hands. Most people don't even know what the firing order is in their engine let alone building one like yours on such a budget as you have. Cheers bro.


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## firmwood (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, I didn't want to stuff in a totally redone block, I was hoping the rear axle swing would rip out from the unibody so it'd be a logical excuse for a newer vehicle.... Grrr... It'll rip out soon, she's rusty! 

I had to go with a 160* Tstat, with modifying the small bypass hole to keep temp down, but now that it's colder, it bypasses too much water, and with the larger radiator, I can't get anymore then 90*f out the vents. So, lazy man I am, duct taped a trimmed piece of sheet steel to block 3/4 of the radiator, and I'll just remove it this spring. Heh. 

But, still, I have the problem of the head not soaking heat fast enough, if I hog 5000rpm long enough, she'll starting pinging regardless. Only confirmation was a tank of leaded 110, zero problems, even @ 190*F... 

But O2 sensors hate lead, and wallet hates 7.70/gal..... 

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## firmwood (Sep 24, 2014)

I went diesel. Made 540,000 miles on the Aspire. It still runs, just a yard vehicle. It's officially been converted to Flintstone brakes. 

09 CR vw jetta wagon. 6sp manual. 
Dpf delete and retune, here I come! 

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## bigbadbob (Sep 24, 2014)

I have a 2001 TDI 5spd 350,000kms, never been to the dealer.
Just bought 2002 TDI 5spd with 142,000 kms
Have a Dodge diesel.
All have been decent autos!!!!
but with diesel prices,, hard to say.....
BBB


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