# Skidder rebuild, { warning graphic pictures}



## plasticweld

I was not sure I wanted to go this route, spend a bunch of money and time rebuilding a old skidder. I had looked at buying newer equipment but according to the dealers I talked to mine was worth nothing and theirs was worth top dollar. I bought this skidder a year ago with the idea that it could last 3 months without major work. I needed a machine that I could count on to finish a job which had a deadline coming up for completion. I had the machine less than two weeks before spending lots of money and time on a transmission and a host of other problems. I managed to finish the job and worked most of the winter with the machine. I had a second transmission that was now giving me problems, a Detroit with a 3 quart a day oil problem and pins and bushings that were way to sloppy. Here is the photo story of what I have started. 







I am lucky I have a mechanic that works for me in both of my businesses so I did not have to do this all by myself. The first order of business was to pull all of the components. I figured that I would rebuild the trans, the motor, the transfer case, the reverser, the winch, the pins and bushings for the blade, the steering and the center pins, I would also rebuild the rear bumper and the winch spool.





The timberjack is a 1979 and when I looked at the cost of buying newer I figured I could spend as much or more on newer machine only to have some of the same problems that I am having with this one


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## plasticweld

The bumper of the years has been ripped bent and torn so that there was not much left to work with, this winter I pretty much worked without one. 






I built a new bumper out of cardboard to make a templete for the steel, the orginal was made of 1/2 steel the new one was going to be made out of 3/4 inch steel 






The new bumper weighed 1100 pounds it also took over 35 pounds of welding wire and rod to put together and mount on the machine. I tacked up the parts on the machine and then lifted off to work on in the shop. I did manage to drop the bumper on the floor while un loading kind of defeating the purpose of doing it inside, when I went to put it back on the machine I needed to still do a bunch of work to make it fit right

<a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_2362.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/IMG_2362.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## plasticweld

The next thing I tackled was the walking beam, it had tons of play in the center pins and the blade pins where also badly worn. 

We cut out the old bushings and used a weldable bushing that was oversized. We then took a old fence post and turned it down on the lath to give us our centers so that it would line back up when we put it back in the machine

<a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_2371.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/IMG_2371.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> 

I used a mig machine with .45 wire on it and it went pretty quick. I basically found that I had to over weld the part in so that when I got done grinding it down I had a flat surface.


The pins orginall wore down because the line that was used to get grease to the fitting had broken and I did not know it. I had over the winter pumped in pounds and pounds of grease into the belly pan thinking the whole time that it was going to the joints that needed it. While the design that timberjack has for doing this, "being able to grease the machine from the operators seat seemed great" In reality there is no way to tell if the grease is really getting there. 

<a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_2365.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/IMG_2365.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The pin and bushing for the steering also suffered the same fate. {no grease ever made it to the bushing because of a broken line} This bushing when we took it apart was smashed up so badly that there was about half a inch of play because the bushing had siezed on the pin

<a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_2364.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/IMG_2364.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The back pin had only minor wear so it did not need any welding just a new pin and bushing. I am sure this is due to the fact that you can tell if it is getting grease


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## D&B Mack

So how far are you into the rebuild?


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## 056 kid

that is scary.


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## JRepairsK70e

nice work and when you are done you will know exactly what you have rather than learning a new machines short comings how many hours do you think before putting it back to work as a new machine rep sent jk


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## plasticweld

<a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_2352.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/plasticweld/skidder%20rebuild/IMG_2352.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

while working on the bumper I had time to repair the spool, welding on this could only be done in short spurts to keep it from getting to hot, 5 pounds of welding rod later 






I still have the spool on the left to repair but I am going to do this with the wire feed machine instead of the stick welder I do not think I can get good enough welds any other way. For some reason there is not a good ground though the bearings and figured I would have to come up with a different method 






The blade had some damage I don't remeber doing this damage but there it was I must have caught some rocks somewhere that did not move




[/IMG]


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## hammerlogging

beautiful!


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## zopi

With regards the spool and ground..shouldn't ground through a mech joint anyway...jury rig a ground long enough to weld an old bolt or something on, then knock it off when done...


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## mdavlee

Welding through bearings can cause arcing across the bearings and galling. Weld something on there for a ground. A thick flat washer will work in a pinch.


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## plasticweld

Thanks for the tips on welding the other spool, I was hoping to have some way to keep it moving as I welded it, this is the process I used to to the main spool

As to the time frame when it will be done in true logger fashion it should have been done two weeks ago. I have all of the parts here and will post up more pictures and text as I go should be finished in a couple of weeks. As I sit here I was trying to think of any part of the machine that is not getting rebuilt and I can not think of anything besides the valve bank that runs the steering and blade and winch controls is the only thing I am not removing and rebuilding or replacing, it is scheduled for even minor things like new paint new mufflers and new seat, the tires are going to have to do I bought new chains for all four tires last fall 








The front rear was fine, the back was whipped. I ended up ordering new ring and pinion and new differental gears for each side the was just under $1700 in parts 






The biggest problem I have had has been getting the right parts from the dealer, many times I got more than I asked for or the wrong parts. I am glad I have another machine that is working the delays caused by the wrong parts being sent has been the single biggest delay for this project. This was supposed to be in the woods working and done during spring mud







I have had oil leak problems, far past the normal Detroit oil leakage. I had a couple of problems to deal with. I thought I was going to be real smart and buy a complete engine ready to drop in and get mine taken care of when I had free time it ran fine but I wanted to do bearings and take care of the leaks so I bought a engine out of a Barko loader that had only 300 hours on it since being rebuilt. For $2700 I thought this was a good move. It turns out that the motor I bought does not fit my skidder but fits a Franklin,Tree-Farmer or Clark the exhaust and intake are on opposite sides. If anyone is looking I got one I would love to unload I am now stuck with a motor that will not work on my skidder. I ended up taking the engine that leaked down to Reiff Diesel. Engines-Rebuilding and Exchanging in Lewisburg, PA They went through the engine I told them to replace anything that was needed. For once it was better than expected. The top end was in really good shape, a couple of valve seals and springs a new head gasket. The oil leak was coming from a front main seal and from a broken oil pump bolt. I had new rod and crank bearings rear main seal front seal and a new oil pump and front cover they did all of the work on the motor and then test ran it for $1400 and it took only a couple of days one of the few projects that went a head of schedule. Next up are transmission, reverser and transfer case. The winch is also getting a couple of new bearings and seals minor stuff the winch has always been trouble free on this machine


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## upstateny

Is this a 230 or 208/225/240?


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## plasticweld

upstateny said:


> Is this a 230 or 208/225/240?



this is a 240


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## Cletuspsc

Nice work. . . ..ever think about a Cummins 6BTA instead of the jimmy?


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## 056 kid

:agree2:


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## Oldtimer

Holy sheep dip!

You sure ain't skieert of a lil wrenching!

How much $ will you have invested when you are done?

I have to think you could have stepped into another working machine for the $ and been working it this whole time?

Anyhow, you have my respect!


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## plasticweld

Cletuspsc said:


> Nice work. . . ..ever think about a Cummins 6BTA instead of the jimmy?



Orginally I thought about using a Dutz but everyone I talked to seemed tell me it was cheaper to buy a skidder with a Dutz already in it than change over to one because of how the pump was set up and all the other stuff that would need to be changed.
I used the Detroit just because I had it; not my first choice ever, lots of noise and not much power. In my dream world I would sell my Clark 664 skidder and trade it for a Cat 518 or 525 cable machine and make the 240 my spare machine and the one I use to pull trucks in and out with. I want a machine with a dealer that stocks parts and does not have 10 different models they stock parts for and none of them mine. When it come to ordering parts. The Timberjack no longer has a dealer ship the Clark dealership is gone and I can order parts for either machine over the phone and pay for overnight shipping to get the wrong part almost 50 percent of the time. I am willing to pay more for a part and walk in and get it than wait couple of days for a part. by the time you spring for the overnight shipping and now figure for lost time; it makes the off brand parts just has expensive as Cats parts now.. Like I said in my dream world


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## plasticweld

Oldtimer said:


> Holy sheep dip!
> 
> You sure ain't skieert of a lil wrenching!
> 
> How much $ will you have invested when you are done?
> 
> I have to think you could have stepped into another working machine for the $ and been working it this whole time?
> 
> Anyhow, you have my respect!



I figure $15,000 plus, also a lot of my time. I did look at buying a different machine I figured my machine as a trade plus $15,000 only bought me another machine that was just as likely to need something major. I can afford the money I can not afford to be broke down in the middle of a job this year when I need the machine the most, While I am way behind on schedule this repair project I am hoping to work without major problems for awhile once it is all back together. I also pay for stuff as I go and this is what I thought would make best of the money I had in hand. I suppose if I had a different mind set I would have taken the $15000 and my machine got something really nice and just made payments. I am already looking for a log truck and figured that I did not want to drain all my resources if I ran into trouble with a truck.. I am kind of playing it safe with what I have I am sure a year from now I will look back at this with clarity


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## OregonSawyer

Awesome thread. Can't wait to see more pics of the rebuild! Rep sent :msp_thumbup:


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## Gologit

Good effort. It takes a lot to keep that old iron going sometimes. When you're done you'll know every inch of that machine.


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## stihl 440

plasticweld said:


> Orginally I thought about using a Dutz but everyone I talked to seemed tell me it was cheaper to buy a skidder with a Dutz already in it than change over to one because of how the pump was set up and all the other stuff that would need to be changed.
> I used the Detroit just because I had it; not my first choice ever, lots of noise and not much power. In my dream world I would sell my Clark 664 skidder and trade it for a Cat 518 or 525 cable machine and make the 240 my spare machine and the one I use to pull trucks in and out with. I want a machine with a dealer that stocks parts and does not have 10 different models they stock parts for and none of them mine. When it come to ordering parts. The Timberjack no longer has a dealer ship the Clark dealership is gone and I can order parts for either machine over the phone and pay for overnight shipping to get the wrong part almost 50 percent of the time. I am willing to pay more for a part and walk in and get it than wait couple of days for a part. by the time you spring for the overnight shipping and now figure for lost time; it makes the off brand parts just has expensive as Cats parts now.. Like I said in my dream world


 
Cats are a pretty good machine...my buddy had a 518 cable and it was down atleast once a week with air line issues and hydraulic pump problems....that and he was burning 50 gal of fuel a day and he was contract cutting...so he was making no money....and he was fed up with the machine...so he found a 1996 franklin 170 cable with a 12 valve 6cyl cummins....he is now pulling 2 more trees and only burning 20-25 gallon of fuel a day....and pulling farther than he was before. Needless to say he bought the franklin and didnt look back...oh and it hasnt been down yet. Franklins are one hell of a machine....almost cant beat them with a machine of the same size. They are a bear when it comes to pulling.....especially with a cummins. My current boss has a wide wheelbase timberjack 240 with a 453 detroit and a franklin 170 with a 453 detroit.....both have the same motor and the frankiln will outpull the timberjack by far....and IMO is twice the machine of the TJ. Even though i hate detroits all together....the franklin is no slouch with it surprisingly. I know 170's with a cummins are absolute horse when winching and pulling. Id say ditch the detroit and get a 4BT turbo cummins or a 6cyl cummins 12 valve turbo and put in it....might use a little more fuel but it will for sure pull more.


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## plasticweld

stihl 440 said:


> Cats are a pretty good machine...my buddy had a 518 cable and it was down atleast once a week with air line issues and hydraulic pump problems....that and he was burning 50 gal of fuel a day and he was contract cutting...so he was making no money....and he was fed up with the machine...so he found a 1996 franklin 170 cable with a 12 valve 6cyl cummins....he is now pulling 2 more trees and only burning 20-25 gallon of fuel a day....and pulling farther than he was before. Needless to say he bought the franklin and didnt look back...oh and it hasnt been down yet. Franklins are one hell of a machine....almost cant beat them with a machine of the same size. They are a bear when it comes to pulling.....especially with a cummins. My current boss has a wide wheelbase timberjack 240 with a 453 detroit and a franklin 170 with a 453 detroit.....both have the same motor and the frankiln will outpull the timberjack by far....and IMO is twice the machine of the TJ. Even though i hate detroits all together....the franklin is no slouch with it surprisingly. I know 170's with a cummins are absolute horse when winching and pulling. Id say ditch the detroit and get a 4BT turbo cummins or a 6cyl cummins 12 valve turbo and put in it....might use a little more fuel but it will for sure pull more.



Thanks for your imput about the Cat. They do burn a lot more fuel. I used one years ago on a long pull on steep ground and needed to add fuel at lunch to make it to the end of the day. This was 20 years ago and the machine was in good shape but I do remember that we just ran the machine and except for minor stuff never lost any time. It may be niave to think a machine 30 years old of any brand will work with out lots of maintanace. I have never run a Franklin, the TJ works well in this area because the ground is steep and for a old guy like me getting on and off all day long takes its toll. While I like the Clark and how it operates by the end of the week I am tired of climbing up and down I would at sometime like to replace the Clark just to have a larger machine. It has low hours a new motor and is nice and tight the only thing killing it is its size for what we use it for


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## stihl 440

plasticweld said:


> Thanks for your imput about the Cat. They do burn a lot more fuel. I used one years ago on a long pull on steep ground and needed to add fuel at lunch to make it to the end of the day. This was 20 years ago and the machine was in good shape but I do remember that we just ran the machine and except for minor stuff never lost any time. It may be niave to think a machine 30 years old of any brand will work with out lots of maintanace. I have never run a Franklin, the TJ works well in this area because the ground is steep and for a old guy like me getting on and off all day long takes its toll. While I like the Clark and how it operates by the end of the week I am tired of climbing up and down I would at sometime like to replace the Clark just to have a larger machine. It has low hours a new motor and is nice and tight the only thing killing it is its size for what we use it for


 
If you run a good franklin 170 i bet you'll want one over a cat 518 or even a 525. The thing about franklins (170's) are they are so versitile....they are at home on a hill and on the level. They will hold to a hill and they will out pull most other machine brands on the level. That and their winch is surperior to most....not as fast as the cat's gear-omatic...but they have power at all times where if you are winching heavy with the cat it sometimes wont do it. Franklins will bust the cable before they stop....or bust the tree thats hanging you up. 42 tons of power all the time.....the newer (1990's +) machines are even stronger i believe. That and you can get in and out both sides of a franklin....where to the timberjack you cant. And franklin has the full cage so you dont get hit with brush like the timberjack.


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## Oldtimer

I bought big yeller in April, had a Tree Farmer C5D Duetz for 17 years before.

Let me tell you; The 648D is about 50x the skidder. And it fits through every trail I made with the twig farmer...steers about 60000% better.

I will never own another cable machine, ever. If it don't have a grapple on back, I don't want it.
Naturally, a winch on the grapple is a good idea. I will be adding one to this JD soon. But I have not needed a winch yet. And I have not dragged a cable since April.


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## plasticweld

Old Timer what kind of wood are you cutting? I know NH has some steep ground how do you handle spots were you can not back up to the trees. I run 150 feet of cable and in many cases that is not enough when it comes to be able to get the trees out. A bulldozer for building roads is the norm here, I also wonder with the width of the machine how it effects the job when you are doing a selective cut job. I have a good friend who picked up 3 648 grapple machines and told me he would sell me one of them for under $30,000 they have winches and seemed to be in fair shape but needing work. Being a old guy myself it would be great never to have to pull cable again but I don't see me being able to pull it off. I have never worked with a grapple machine so have no idea of what they can and can't do. If I had time this summer I would stop up and see you and check out how you run your operation maybe then I would have a better idea..Bob


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## Oldtimer

plasticweld said:


> Old Timer what kind of wood are you cutting? I know NH has some steep ground how do you handle spots were you can not back up to the trees. I run 150 feet of cable and in many cases that is not enough when it comes to be able to get the trees out. A bulldozer for building roads is the norm here, I also wonder with the width of the machine how it effects the job when you are doing a selective cut job. I have a good friend who picked up 3 648 grapple machines and told me he would sell me one of them for under $30,000 they have winches and seemed to be in fair shape but needing work. Being a old guy myself it would be great never to have to pull cable again but I don't see me being able to pull it off. I have never worked with a grapple machine so have no idea of what they can and can't do. If I had time this summer I would stop up and see you and check out how you run your operation maybe then I would have a better idea..Bob


 
It's a matter of cutting some extra wood to allow access. It really isn't any different that how a wheeled fellerbuncher cuts whatever is in the way to get to the good wood.
We do have some steep ground, but I am not on steep stuff too much. As I said, I will have a winch soon, and that will allow for getting into the nooks and crannies.
For now, I just wouldn't cut the few that are in inaccessable spots.
As for mobility, it goes wherever the Tree Farmer (Small machine) went with ease. But I have the smaller tires too, 28L26. 
The real bennies of the grapple is SPEED. All that time saved picking wood up and then dropping at the landing. I make 3 more hitches a day on found time.
Another bennie is the wood comes out 5' in the air...WAY less mud and dirt on the wood. Great for sawing up!
Then there's loading the dump truck with it by trigging the wood under the machine and backing the wood up over the truck where you just cut it off and let it fall in.
Then there's stumping made easy..
Then there's grabbing the brush and putting it into the mudhole when needed..
Then there's the EASE of placing bridges..
Then there's being able to deck wood out of the way when the landing is plugged..
I can go on..


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## Cletuspsc

Grapple machines are the cats meow when picking up small wood 12" or less. I run a 240A and it suits my needs "OK" but if the bank would allow it i would pick up a grapple in the 648 size range tomorrow. We cut a good mix of size and species around here, every thing from pine and hemlock pulp to big oak and maple. I cut with a buncher and buck up with a slasher package and my biggest issue is keeping the slasher fed and bringing all the junk from the slasher back into the woods. One thing i like about a cable is you can pull a bigger hitch of big wood with it. I was working with a friend who had a 648G and he was pulling 3 good sized oaks to my 5 just because his grapple could not hold onto more than that. But when smaller wood was the order of the day he would blow my doors off. The ability to just back up to a bunch and go and then drop it at the hedder and never stop to unhook is hard to beat.


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## Oldtimer

Cletuspsc said:


> Grapple machines are the cats meow when picking up small wood 12" or less. I run a 240A and it suits my needs "OK" but if the bank would allow it i would pick up a grapple in the 648 size range tomorrow. We cut a good mix of size and species around here, every thing from pine and hemlock pulp to big oak and maple. I cut with a buncher and buck up with a slasher package and my biggest issue is keeping the slasher fed and bringing all the junk from the slasher back into the woods. One thing i like about a cable is you can pull a bigger hitch of big wood with it. I was working with a friend who had a 648G and he was pulling 3 good sized oaks to my 5 just because his grapple could not hold onto more than that. But when smaller wood was the order of the day he would blow my doors off. The ability to just back up to a bunch and go and then drop it at the hedder and never stop to unhook is hard to beat.


You are right about hauling more with a cable. But the time saved more than makes up for it.
I find that I can grab four 20" diameter oaks, but will lose one because the weight simply overwhelms the grapples holding power.

You need to fab a grapple for the blade, like the crazy canadians.
October 2005 - Logging and Sawmilling Journal - Spot Light


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## Cletuspsc

I dont think the little 240 would like that extra wight very much. . . . its a good idea though for the bigger contractors


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## 056 kid

Oldtimer said:


> You are right about hauling more with a cable. But the time saved more than makes up for it.
> I find that I can grab four 20" diameter oaks, but will lose one because the weight simply overwhelms the grapples holding power.
> 
> You need to fab a grapple for the blade, like the crazy canadians.
> October 2005 - Logging and Sawmilling Journal - Spot Light


 
Thats why you gotta periodically tighten your grapple as you are toting them down the way. As for cable machines, when you get in the mountains, skid roads so narrow that the tires hang off the the bank, windy shoves through tight draws on steep ground. That cable skidder will get you more wood and keep your ass from going on a ride down the mountain. I have seen guys flip big grapple skidders going aroind bends and hanging a drag or having a big log get the machine real unstable. There is a certain amount of lee way with the grapple as far as keeping the machine on at least 3 wheels, but it is nothing like hitting that lever right before things get nasty and cruise up the way, get a good plant, winch up, carry on your merry way. Also the cable will also save you when you get alittle over zealous with the off piste action haha. I wish I had some pictures of the unbelievable places I have seen my old boss man take his machines.


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## Oldtimer

056 kid said:


> Thats why you gotta periodically tighten your grapple as you are toting them down the way. As for cable machines, when you get in the mountains, skid roads so narrow that the tires hang off the the bank, windy shoves through tight draws on steep ground. That cable skidder will get you more wood and keep your ass from going on a ride down the mountain. I have seen guys flip big grapple skidders going aroind bends and hanging a drag or having a big log get the machine real unstable. There is a certain amount of lee way with the grapple as far as keeping the machine on at least 3 wheels, but it is nothing like hitting that lever right before things get nasty and cruise up the way, get a good plant, winch up, carry on your merry way. Also the cable will also save you when you get alittle over zealous with the off piste action haha. I wish I had some pictures of the unbelievable places I have seen my old boss man take his machines.


 
The JD has a detent that keeps constant hydraulic pressure on the grapple.
It's the weight of 4 real good sized Oaks (with tops most times) that will simply overwhelm the power of the grapple pistons. They are only so powerful, and the machine is an '88 after all.
As for steep ground, I'll just keep the grapple dragging on the ground as much as possible. 
I had 17 straight years of cable logging before this grapple.
Never going back to cable only. Ever.
It's like going from a hand saw to a new Husqvarna 394 for chopping.


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## redprospector

I've never rebuilt anything as extensively as you are doing with your 240, but I can definately understand your reasoning.
I bought a new Terex PT-100G to eliminate some downtime. I've had the machine for 4 months and it's been in the shop for almost half that time. The mechanical breakdowns I can deal with, but the computer problems I really hate. A computer has no place on a piece of heavy equipment, especially if that equipment is used in the woods. 
Two months ago I spent $5000 on hydraulic components for my little JD 440-B skidder. Money well spent, It's the perfect size skidder for what I'm doing, and I can't replace it for what It cost to keep it up.
I'm going next week to look at another machine to replace my new piece of crap Terex, and yes it is old enough it dosen't have a computer. I think my new purpose in life is to keep old iron going. 

Andy


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## Cletuspsc

redprospector said:


> I. I think my new purpose in life is to keep old iron going.


 
Thats about how I feel these days but I secretly like spinning wrenches


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## MountainCutter

*Restoring a 1969 TD20 Dresser Bull Dozer*

There is a guy on youtube that has some cool videos of his logging dozer YouTube - ‪This Cat Is Nothing But Trouble‬&rlm; His youtube name is Wranglerstar and he is logging his land and documenting his off-grid homestead project on youtube. I found him through nutnfancy youtuber.

MC


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## tramp bushler

*Hey you Guys*



redprospector said:


> I've never rebuilt anything as extensively as you are doing with your 240, but I can definately understand your reasoning.
> I bought a new Terex PT-100G to eliminate some downtime. I've had the machine for 4 months and it's been in the shop for almost half that time. The mechanical breakdowns I can deal with, but the computer problems I really hate. A computer has no place on a piece of heavy equipment, especially if that equipment is used in the woods.
> Two months ago I spent $5000 on hydraulic components for my little JD 440-B skidder. Money well spent, It's the perfect size skidder for what I'm doing, and I can't replace it for what It cost to keep it up.
> I'm going next week to look at another machine to replace my new piece of crap Terex, and yes it is old enough it dosen't have a computer. I think my new purpose in life is to keep old iron going.
> 
> Andy


 HI Red , 56 , OT , and everyone else . . 2 weeks ago I got the bill of sale for my 330GP Timberjack line machine / cable skidder . It is not running at this point . has a 353 in it . I actually like Screamin Jimmies .. No glow plugs tho which puts emphisis on preheating the machine all winter . ... I have about a thousand questions about Timberjacks . ....Is yours a standard tranny or automatic ? mine is an automatic . but the shift lever and the fwd/rev lever are missing . . I think 2 of the tires on mine are farm tractor tires . I got the machine for 3,600$ and is isn't wore to a frazzle . the main shive " spool " has just slight line wear , like 1/8th" the band brake on the drum is close to 3/8ths " thick . . It is missing it's orig. hood I have hood parts from an old 404 TJ that I will cobble together a hood for this winter season . a friend has a running 353 he'll let me have for 1 k $ .. I have pretty flat ground here to log , and tho I'm a timber faller by preference and temperment . My plan /hope is to go fully Mech.within a few years ....


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## Oldtimer

I am no help with TJs. Good luck!


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## tramp bushler

*More Questions .*

Is there some book , or resource I can get about TimberJacks ???????? I ran a 230D in Maine when I was a teen and it got me hooked on TJs ..... My skidder is in Southeast Alaska . and I,ll have t get it mobed up here , so far the cheapest quote is 3,500$ paying as I go is less stressful than banks . . I was working with a guy who had a Mountain Logger ML 200 down in Haines . I was blown away with how little he got accomplished with it . It had a 6v53 in it and was imo a good skidder but was not used correctly or very energetically . . Which leads me to a ? HOW MANY CORD ,/ THOUSAND BOARD FEET DO YOU GUYS LOG /STUMP TO THE LANDING WITH YOUR SKIDDERS ... guess I need to shut off the caps lock . . Not a competitive ? but that guy didn,t get out more than 5 cord a day . I can do that with my Duce an half ... I have almost exclusivly white spruce here . I have been thinking around 4 cord per hour or better with the TJ . .. Any advice [constructive] will be very much appreciated . ... Skidders arn,t very common in Alaska . so a guy kindo gets what he can and makes it work . .. My target for the winter is around 680 cord fell and logged , working alone ..I also do most of my own hauling . Plastic wedge . my hats off to you for doing such a major rebuild .. Looks great . I can read replies at night on my cell phone but replying is a daunting challenge .... post more pics if you can . I can't view them on my phone but can on this puter ...


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## tramp bushler

Thanks OT . You have a great looking skidder there ... . With falling by hand in a selective cut I couldn,t utilize a grapple skidder very well . At least not to its potential . a line skidder with 4-6 snared in sliders should be pretty productive for me . I keep my stumps real low ..


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## Oldtimer

How much in a twitch depends mostly on the size and length of the wood.

My old C5D Twigfarmer used to pull a full cord of hardwood with 5 chokers if the wood was fat and tall. And I mean a cut / split / stacked cord, not a cord by the weight.

If you have any steep ground (It's Alaska, you must have some!) and any wet ground (Again, Alaska!) I wouldn't count on much more than a cord per twitch. Again, basing this on what I do in NH.
I know putting 4 cord an hour on the landing here with a cable machine is possible only if you are cutting BIG wood (NH wood) right outside the landing- and you better have a 640+ sized skidder.

As I remember, Spruce has limbs like a dog has hair. I can't see moving 4 cord an hour just because of the limbing involved.


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## tramp bushler

Where I am , the Copper Basin most of the ground is pretty good . . We pretty much only log in the winter here . Where as in S.E. Ak. it is all summer / spring summer/fall logging . too much snow in winter . Southeast is mostly Tower ground . also helicopters and what we call Shovel logging . logging with a 200 plus size hyd log loader . .southeast was mostly clear cut method . the helo's do selective loggin . .. I can pretty easily fall 7 cord per hr avg . here and was loggin 2-3 cord per hour with the D3 I rented last winter . . swamping the trees out / limbind the bole of the tree up to 6 ft is the worst of the limbing .


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## nhlogga

Oldtimer said:


> I bought big yeller in April, had a Tree Farmer C5D Duetz for 17 years before.
> 
> Let me tell you; The 648D is about 50x the skidder. And it fits through every trail I made with the twig farmer...steers about 60000% better.
> 
> I will never own another cable machine, ever. If it don't have a grapple on back, I don't want it.
> Naturally, a winch on the grapple is a good idea. I will be adding one to this JD soon. But I have not needed a winch yet. And I have not dragged a cable since April.


 


I do believe I see that machine everyday on the way to/back from the lot I am working on.


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## hutch3912

*clark 644*

Any of you guys know anything about a Clark 644 with a detroit? Had never heard of that model but it was brought up in a trade discussion the other day and now I'm curious as to what it's worth, it's strengths, weaknesses?


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## upstateny

Never been around the 664's. We have a 665 with a Detroit that is a great little skidder. Easy to get in and out of, simple to operate, runs very little fuel, even pulling big hardwoods all day. Definitely would love to work out a deal on a nice 664 or 665.


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## hutch3912

*clark*

I've run a 664B alot and loved it but I had never heard of a 644 model. Is it smaller? Didn't think you could get much more compact than the 664 which makes it a pain in the a$$ to work on.


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## plasticweld

This week after we had a few set backs we managed to install the front axle. This should have been an easy task with the precautions we took when we made the alignment tool in the lath. The bushings were in at a slight angle and we had to put it together and then take it apart a couple of times to get a perfect fit so there would be no pressure on the pins when it went together.






Leroy ran into another problem with the blade this week, he was hoping for more progress but Murphy’s Law always works. The blade arm had a slight twist to it so that it was impossible to line up the bushings on the arm and drive the pin home. After some discussion I decided to cut off the arm, line the pins up and get it perfect and then weld the arm of the blade back on again. I figure that this was due to the pins and bushings being worn and pushing hard against either stuck log trucks or the log pile 







The tools of any logger now a days, I have no idea how this would go if I had to hire all of this welding done







The other project we were able to take care of was the pillow box bearing that supports the drive shaft off of the transmission. It made a funny sound when turned by hand, after taking it apart we found one of the bearings had seized on the shaft. This took a lot of effort to get the old race off of the shaft. We ended up heating the race cherry red and then cooling with cold water to make it brittle and then taking the hammer and chisel to hit to break it off







So far this is where we stand, most of the parts have been painted, we finally got the rest of the part for the rear so that it could be assembled. The most frustrating part of this whole rebuild so far has been the delay in getting parts for the machine; I figure I have at least three weeks waiting for parts. I would be out of business if I had only one skidder


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## jay_d

that is gonna be one jam up little 240 when your done. I have to say if there was any kind of cable skidder i would run (which there isn't, us flat landers run grapple skidders) that would be it. 

I have only ran a 240 for about 3 hours and most of that was spent on the ground setting chokers.
How does that thing ride? could you stay on it all day if it had a grapple and an enclosed cab?

(i ask because i found a later model 240 with a cummins and a grapple with a/c i was considering buying to thin pine plantations with)

and oldtimer, if you were to try out a 450c dual arch you would spit on that gear jamming john deere. I would say a 460c, but you dont seem the type to like electronics


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## Oldtimer

jay_d said:


> and oldtimer, if you were to try out a 450c dual arch you would spit on that gear jamming john deere. I would say a 460c, but you dont seem the type to like electronics


 
Is it full time all wheel or do the axles lock in and out like the JD? Never ran one, but this JD-D is a lotta machine. It would have to be pretty damn good to beat it.


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## jay_d

limited slip front end, rear end has a hydraulic locker........and its a power shift, so put it in second gear and go. they will mountain pretty good with a nice set of tires, put chains on them and you can climb a wall with 3 big red oaks with the tops in them still. Plus they are great on fuel, mine will drag 12-15 loads on 60 gallons. but thats only because it has the wr10 axles, my 450 single arch has the higher gear ratio and will pull 15-20 loads on 60 gallons. and my loads are usually 25-33 tons.

as far as beating it, id say they were close, i ran a 648g, more creature comfort and a bigger grapple....bout it, i would say a 16 year old 648g3 wouldnt be half what a 450c is

if you could get lucky enough to find one (they are all mostly up north) a 480 timberjack is where its at, they are the same skidder as a 450, but have a huge dozer blade and a 120 inch sorting grapple and instead of a 173 hp cummins, they have a 190 hp.

If you get the chance try one out. they are fine machines, and are under rated on the internet.


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## SBeange

*Reversed DD 3-53 Diesel Engine*

Plasticweld,

You mentioned buying a used 3-53 that was reveresed and therefore wouldn't fit your Timberjack 200 series skidder. As I understand one of the benefits of the DD 3-53 was the ability to reverse it .... using the same parts. ie turn the head 180 degrees, and relocate the blower and manifolds. Of course there is likely more involved but I believe manageable by someone with your skills and attention to detail. Any DD shop should be able to assist.

I look forward to seeing the project completed pictures. I spent considerable time around older TJ 200 series machines.

Scott


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## Oldtimer

jay_d said:


> limited slip front end, rear end has a hydraulic locker........and its a power shift, so put it in second gear and go. they will mountain pretty good with a nice set of tires, put chains on them and you can climb a wall with 3 big red oaks with the tops in them still. Plus they are great on fuel, mine will drag 12-15 loads on 60 gallons. but thats only because it has the wr10 axles, my 450 single arch has the higher gear ratio and will pull 15-20 loads on 60 gallons. and my loads are usually 25-33 tons.
> 
> as far as beating it, id say they were close, i ran a 648g, more creature comfort and a bigger grapple....bout it, i would say a 16 year old 648gwouldn'tnt be half what a 450c is
> 
> if you could get lucky enough to find one (they are all mostly up north) a 480 timberjack is where its at, they are the same skidder as a 450, but have a huge dozer blade and a 120 inch sorting grapple and instead of a 173 hp cummins, they have a 190 hp.
> 
> If you get the chance try one out. they are fine machines, and are under rated on the internet.



I don't think the huge blade (or any blade that sticks out beyond the tires) would suit me now that I have had this Deere for 18 months or so..The deere is just super well thought out.
The blade is narrow for a good reason: If the blade doesn't hit a tree in a tight turn, the tire won't hit. Same in reverse, the tire misses the tree, the blade does too. Let me tell you, coming off the Tree Farmer, I get in a lot less trouble, and have 95% less scarred up trees.
The continuous rotation grapple is a must have. The grab bars are in the perfect spot for getting on and off, they actually swing you away from the muddy tire when you dismount after you "figure them out". The only real issue I have is the seat faces forward, rather than sideways like the new stuff. I sit sideways in it, and run the throttle with my left foot...makes using the grapple easy and saves my neck. I set the hand throttle to 1/4 or so, and add power to suit with my left foot. Never use the "clutch" either. Just the shifter. Works really well after you understand the setup.
In the rough terrain I am on at the moment, I move a load + of hardwood (firewood and some logs) on about 6 gallons. About 7 hours total run time. Miserable going, steeper than usual and rocks the size of your couch.
Mind you, this is chainsaw select cutting, not bunched wood.


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## SBeange

*Timberjack Dealer*



plasticweld said:


> Orginally I thought about using a Dutz but everyone I talked to seemed tell me it was cheaper to buy a skidder with a Dutz already in it than change over to one because of how the pump was set up and all the other stuff that would need to be changed.
> I used the Detroit just because I had it; not my first choice ever, lots of noise and not much power. In my dream world I would sell my Clark 664 skidder and trade it for a Cat 518 or 525 cable machine and make the 240 my spare machine and the one I use to pull trucks in and out with. I want a machine with a dealer that stocks parts and does not have 10 different models they stock parts for and none of them mine. When it come to ordering parts. The Timberjack no longer has a dealer ship the Clark dealership is gone and I can order parts for either machine over the phone and pay for overnight shipping to get the wrong part almost 50 percent of the time. I am willing to pay more for a part and walk in and get it than wait couple of days for a part. by the time you spring for the overnight shipping and now figure for lost time; it makes the off brand parts just has expensive as Cats parts now.. Like I said in my dream world



It may be a long shot but there is a Timberjack dealership in Texas ... the only remaining one. Texas Timberjack,

Lufkin Branch
Texas Timberjack Inc.
6004 South First Street
Lufkin, Texas 75901
Ph: (936) 634-3365
Fax: (936) 639-3673

Jasper Branch
Jasper Equipment
Hwy 190 West
Jasper, Texas 75951
Ph: (409) 384-4611
Fax: (409) 384-6550 

Cleveland Branch
Texas Timberjack of Cleveland
753 Highway 59 South
Cleveland, Texas 77327
Ph: (281) 592-4959

Scott


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## treecutter395

*6bta*



Cletuspsc said:


> Nice work. . . ..ever think about a Cummins 6BTA instead of the jimmy?


 im cutting infront of a 240 that has a cummins that has 219 hp it drags 1500 feet a drag and the skidder man is dragging in 3rd n 4th gear were moving 15 thousand a day its been way better than the 4 cyl detroit and i love the 353 a simple motor


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## jay_d

treecutter395 said:


> im cutting infront of a 240 that has a cummins that has 219 hp it drags 1500 feet a drag and the skidder man is dragging in 3rd n 4th gear were moving 15 thousand a day its been way better than the 4 cyl detroit and i love the 353 a simple motor



sounds about right, 15000 feet is about equal to 75 tons or 3 truck loads right? 

if you had a grapple skidder it would drag around 35000 feet in a day :hmm3grin2orange:

where did you find a 219 hp cummins small enough to jam in a 240? i thought the biggest 6bt you could get was 200hp


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## treecutter395

lol ever hear about turning up the pump and advancing the timing here where im located the 4 and 6 bt was designed and built from his hands and he knows what it takes to quote juice it up and btw this motor come out of a school bus it is rated at 210 hp from factory with out turning it up but its been turned up


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## plasticweld

Did they change the transmission also. I had looked into doing the same thing, buying a bus and putting in motor and Alison trans but with the measurements I had it would not fit. The trans is week on the 240 and while I would love to have more power my guess it would come at the cost of braking other stuff. I would love to have a cumming in my machine I used to have a Clark 666 Dixie Special which came with a heavy drive line and a 6 cylinder cummins that made about a 170 horse. It was a pulling machine and I wish I had never sold it. The trans and drive line were almost double the size of the Timber Jack.. I would love to find something that made 150 horse and did not leak oil and make me deaf


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## Cletuspsc

A 6bt should fit with a manual trans. You would need to move your motor mounts forward a few inches and the clearance between the radiator and the fan is close, there are a few different fans you can run on the cummins and i would put the larger plastic one that runs off the idler pulley instead of the crank to get it up out of the belly pan. Does your machine have the allison auto or the 4spd std.


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## plasticweld

I have the 4 speed which has bee rebuilt twice since I have owned the machine. I am sure it would not stand more power it is already the weak link. Let me know if you know of a transmission that will bolt up to the cummings. I have a reverser in mine so it is not just a simple switch. I looked at using the Alison with the idea I would have only one gear in reverse instead of the 8 I now have with a high and low and 4 speeds.


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## treecutter395

plasticweld said:


> Did they change the transmission also. I had looked into doing the same thing, buying a bus and putting in motor and Alison trans but with the measurements I had it would not fit. The trans is week on the 240 and while I would love to have more power my guess it would come at the cost of braking other stuff. I would love to have a cumming in my machine I used to have a Clark 666 Dixie Special which came with a heavy drive line and a 6 cylinder cummins that made about a 170 horse. It was a pulling machine and I wish I had never sold it. The trans and drive line were almost double the size of the Timber Jack.. I would love to find something that made 150 horse and did not leak oil and make me deaf



they are using the same transmission and the 6bt in a school bus is 215 hp. it took some mod work but its a real tight fit and as far as the transmission they make a heavier transmission that takes the place of the regular transmission for 3600.00 the intake is the biggest challenge hooking it up and yes the fan is a real tight fit


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## plasticweld

treecutter395 said:


> they are using the same transmission and the 6bt in a school bus is 215 hp. it took some mod work but its a real tight fit and as far as the transmission they make a heavier transmission that takes the place of the regular transmission for 3600.00 the intake is the biggest challenge hooking it up and yes the fan is a real tight fit




Who is they, for $3,600 I will order one today


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## treecutter395

brent daniels in mooresville indiana he just deals with timberjack parts.this tranny is for a 240 a that had a 453 detroit in it. i dont know his phone # but use 411 and they will give you a # for him and he does answer on sunday`s


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