# MS461 or MS461R ?



## Glockem45 (Nov 9, 2015)

So, I want to buy a new MS461 with the Large Wrap handle and the Large Dogs with a 25" bar. I thought this is a common saw. On the Stihl website, they call it the MS461R. So I have contacted 4 different dealers locally to order this for me, and they all want to know why I want the MS461R "Rescue Saw". None of them seem to know about the regular R version. Am I calling this model/version the wrong thing? What should expect to pay for this here in Virginia?

Yes I know, probably a NEWB question, but I had to do it since my local dealers can't tell me.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

No its not you..its not uncommon for stihl dealers to be idiots and have no idea about what they offer.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 9, 2015)

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms461r/

Print this page and ask them to order this model ,you could really mess with them and ask them for the heated handle "R " model .


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## catbuster (Nov 9, 2015)

Ask them for the wrap handle model. My Stihl dealer had to be educated about the R model as well.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Nov 9, 2015)

Fire houses usually order their rescue saws from one specific dealer. So it would be very easy to work at another shop and never hear about one.


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

Chainsaw Jim said:


> Fire houses usually order their rescue saws from one specific dealer. So it would be very easy to work at another shop and never hear about one.


True, but if Stihl makes it, any dealer should know about it


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 9, 2015)

This must be the full-wrap handle.








I've been talking to three different Stihl dealers about the "R Package" and they all say different things in regards to what exactly it consists of.

Not a single one of them knew anything about the above wrap handle with the scrench older.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

This isnt a difficult thing to understand..

Theres an "R" model.

Theres a "RESCUE" model.

Case closed.


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

2123 said:


> This must be the full-wrap handle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's only a 3/4 wrap


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 9, 2015)

2123 said:


> This must be the full-wrap handle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the "Rescue" model ,rescue has the scrench holder ,carbide chain and costs more .

Here is my R model ,it looks similar ,i add the Rescue scrench holders to my saws now .


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 9, 2015)

Dealers are saying there's a 1/2 wrap and a full-wrap. 

One said that you can get the Rescue handle on a 461-R if you want.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

The handlebars on the rescue and regular R model are the same , if you want a scrench holder order one 1128-891-8600


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

2123 said:


> Dealers are saying there's a 1/2 wrap and a full-wrap.
> 
> One said that you can get the Rescue handle on a 461-R if you want.


I've also had dealers tell me there was no such thing as roller catch, never heard of square ground chain, no outer dog for an 036, and no such thing as an HO oiler.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> I've also had dealers tell me there was no such thing as roller catch, never heard of square ground chain, no outer dog for an 036, and no such thing as an HO oiler.


 
Its borderline scary to me how clueless people can be about products they offer.


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Its borderline scary to me how clueless people can be about products they offer.


I finally found a dealer that knows his chit. 

He's a little weird though!


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 9, 2015)

I have found it easier to point to the part i want on their screen ,wanted a 441 sprocket cover ,they said did not have that part # ,i asked if they had the loaded one with dog and roller catcher and chip guard ,wa la they had one all of a sudden on the shelf in stock .


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## redoakneck (Nov 9, 2015)

The dealer look up , I think, has it under wrap, not R.

Just went thru this with my dealer, and he knows his stuff!!!! The wrap model doesn't even show up in his dealer catalog because it is a west coast item.


He found it, the distributor had 6, and hardly ever sells them--- duh, if ain't in the catalog, how the frig u supposed to order one. They were doing a great deal on them since 441 was on BO.


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## big t double (Nov 9, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> I've also had dealers tell me there was no such thing as roller catch, never heard of square ground chain, no outer dog for an 036, and no such thing as an HO oiler.


I don't know what none of that is...do you have a picture book? a ho oiler sounds like something youd do before you put them to work on the corner...is there a machine for that? I'm thinking of getting into the pimp game...ive been listening to a lot of Too $hort this week and he makes it sound easy.


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## longbowch (Nov 9, 2015)

Here is my 441RCM. They don't list it on the website but my dealer ordered it for me. He had no idea what he was ordering either.


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

big t double said:


> I don't know what none of that is...do you have a picture book? a ho oiler sounds like something youd do before you put them to work on the corner...is there a machine for that? I'm thinking of getting into the pimp game...ive been listening to a lot of Too $hort this week and he makes it sound easy.


That's some funny chit there!


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

longbowch said:


> Here is my 441RCM. They don't list it on the website but my dealer ordered it for me. He had no idea what he was ordering either.



When did you order it ?


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## longbowch (Nov 9, 2015)

About a year and a half ago. He said it came from a distributor out west.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 9, 2015)

Why no wrap saws on the rh coast ? i never understood that . You guys have 2 hands just like us .


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## longbowch (Nov 9, 2015)

It confuses the John Deere dealers too much![emoji15]


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Why no wrap saws on the rh coast ? i never understood that . You guys have 2 hands just like us .



I get em' no problem.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

longbowch said:


> About a year and a half ago. He said it came from a distributor out west.



I dont think they are available anymore , i talked to a dude that tried to order one a few months back and he said they were no longer in production.


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## longbowch (Nov 9, 2015)

Maybe they're changing it...I sure like mine though.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

longbowch said:


> Maybe they're changing it...I sure like mine though.



I think the "new" stihl saw is replacing the 441 and not the 461..for a few reasons.


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## banana boat (Nov 9, 2015)

Sounds like when I wanted a es light bar, it took 3 different dealers and over 3months to get it they were so confused I was laughing at them.......was worth the wait


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 9, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think the "new" stihl saw is replacing the 441 and not the 461..for a few reasons.


So you think there will be a 442 like i have thought also ?


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> So you think there will be a 442 like i have thought also ?



Hullo.

Yes.


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## Ironworker (Nov 9, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> I finally found a dealer that knows his chit.
> 
> He's a little weird though!


I hope you didn't find out the hard way.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 9, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Hullo.
> 
> Yes.


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

mcobb2 usually has 1 or 2 in stock


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## Glockem45 (Nov 9, 2015)

It just stinks. Nobody knows what it is, and each of them say they need to check with their distributors, yet I never hear back from them. Go figure, I bet they are all calling the same guy, and that guy is wondering what the heck is going on that all these people whan a Wrap handle in Virginia. So now, he is going to stock up on them as he feels there is a market surge on the MS461R. I have a bunch of big saw work I wanted to start on this Wednesday, and now I will have to use my MS290 again on 30" class NRO. Crapola. Are there any online high volume dealers I could just order one of these?


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> It just stinks. Nobody knows what it is, and each of them say they need to check with their distributors, yet I never hear back from them. Go figure, I bet they are all calling the same guy, and that guy is wondering what the heck is going on that all these people whan a Wrap handle in Virginia. So now, he is going to stock up on them as he feels there is a market surge on the MS461R. I have a bunch of big saw work I wanted to start on this Wednesday, and now I will have to use my MS290 again on 30" class NRO. Crapola. Are there any online high volume dealers I could just order one of these?


Send mcobb2 a PM.
I'm sure he'd be glad to send ya one.
Hard to beat prices as well


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## Glockem45 (Nov 9, 2015)

Ok I did. I don't see a PM button, but I do see the "Start Conversation" button. So I tried that one.


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Ok I did. I don't see a PM button, but I do see the "Start Conversation" button. So I tried that one.


Yur on the right track, PM is the same as a conversation. 
That's a hellava saw your after.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 9, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Send mcobb2 a PM.
> I'm sure he'd be glad to send ya one.
> Hard to beat prices as well



I can't find him on this site, or a website where he sells them? Is there a secret handshake I need to know about?


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> I can't find him on this site, or a website where he sells them? Is there a secret handshake I need to know about?


Check your messages


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## MustangMike (Nov 9, 2015)

Dealers on the East Coast just do not seem to handle very many wrap handle saws, just the way it is. Likely cause when you are taking down a tree in a yard, you want to stump it as close to the ground as you can.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 9, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Dealers on the East Coast just do not seem to handle very many wrap handle saws, just the way it is. Likely cause when you are taking down a tree in a yard, you want to stump it as close to the ground as you can.



Maybe I shouldn't get a Wrap then....


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Maybe I shouldn't get a Wrap then....


The HO oiler is nice.
I wish however that they offered a factory FULL wrap.


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## Skeans (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Maybe I shouldn't get a Wrap then....


Why not a west coast dealer like Madsen's and have one shipped out?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

Skeans said:


> Why not a west coast dealer like Madsen's and have one shipped out?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Any dealer can ship a saw.
Whether or not they choose to is another story.......


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## MustangMike (Nov 9, 2015)

Wrap saws often have a lot of advantages, which MAY include HO oiler, dual dogs, high capacity shoot, and on the 661, those cool vented dogs, so it can pay to order one even if you don't want a wrap handle.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Dealers on the East Coast just do not seem to handle very many wrap handle saws, just the way it is. Likely cause when you are taking down a tree in a yard, you want to stump it as close to the ground as you can.



Actually mike its primarily because there arent as many hand cutters working on the east coast vs the west , nor the terrain the guys out west navigate..yard trees are taken on either coast then flushed and ground out...guys here dont run as long of bars on powerheads on this side either.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 9, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Wrap saws often have a lot of advantages, which MAY include HO oiler, dual dogs, high capacity shoot, and on the 661, those cool vented dogs, so it can pay to order one even if you don't want a wrap handle.



Does it come with all that, or do I need to specifically ask for it, such as the HO Oiler ?


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Does it come with all that, or do I need to specifically ask for it, such as the HO Oiler ?


The "R" model comes with those options as standard equipment


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## treesmith (Nov 9, 2015)

And getting an R is much cheaper than buying the bits as extras


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

Can you order an "R" model with the 661 dogs if it isn't a 661?


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 9, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> Can you order an "R" model with the 661 dogs if it isn't a 661?



Nope...they dont fit a 461 anyway.


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Nope...they dont fit a 461 anyway.


They didn't fix that stupid problem when they came out with the 461 .


I can take the dogs off muh 066 and put them on an 026. But not 046\461, great ingenuity there!


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> It just stinks. Nobody knows what it is, and each of them say they need to check with their distributors, yet I never hear back from them. Go figure, I bet they are all calling the same guy, and that guy is wondering what the heck is going on that all these people whan a Wrap handle in Virginia. So now, he is going to stock up on them as he feels there is a market surge on the MS461R. I have a bunch of big saw work I wanted to start on this Wednesday, and now I will have to use my MS290 again on 30" class NRO. Crapola. Are there any online high volume dealers I could just order one of these?


Your big saw is a 290 and a regular MS461 doesn't get it for you, you have to have the R version, the full wrap handle, hmmmm, interesting.


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 9, 2015)

Always one in the bunch


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Always one in the bunch


Yup I guess your right. I've been selling Stihl in northern Virginia for over 20 years now. To date I've had one customer request a full wrap handle saw. That was back in 07. He wanted a heated handle full wrap 441. He's been the only one that's ever requested a full wrap saw. Guess we'll have 2 in Virginia now,LOL


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## Deets066 (Nov 9, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> Yup I guess your right. I've been selling Stihl in northern Virginia for over 20 years now. To date I've had one customer request a full wrap handle saw. That was back in 07. He wanted a heated handle full wrap 441. He's been the only one that's ever requested a full wrap saw. Guess we'll have 2 in Virginia now,LOL


He must have been on AS


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

@Glockem45 I can feel your pain. I live in an area in MT where if you want most anything you have to order it. Despite being the third largest city here, it doesn't matter if its sporting goods, clothing, tools etc. We are just in a poor location, sure we have big box stores and small dealers but just the way it goes.

Advice from a newly CAD bitten member, if you want a R version get it off the get go otherwise you'll end up just ordering another one or ordering parts. Wait you'll end up doing it anyhow.

The R versions are great in IMO whether your in steep terrain or not if for nothing else than the BA factor they have. 

The dogs, HO oiler and handle are all great features, don't let the naysayers discourage you from getting what you are looking for. Doesn't matter if you are the only the second guy in 20 years to want one in VA...get and feel even cooler because you are the only second one in VA to get one. And if you really want to throw them for a loop tell them you want ES Light bar with it too! I know the dealers look at me cross eyed here when I ask for those...Good luck and there are plenty of folks one here that are willing to help out find the saw you want, heck I'd send one from MT but that might get it out of the price range really quickly since it's full retail here or nothing from what I have found around me.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> He must have been on AS


Naa not really. The guy that bought that full wrap 441 wanted those heated handles more than anything else. Said his fingers get cold and he like the idea of a warm handle. I had to order it from my distributor, Mid-Atlantic Stihl in NC. They had to get it shipped in from a distributor out west. Just no demand for heated handles or full wraps on the east coast. If there was you can rest assured we'd have them on the shelves.


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## MustangMike (Nov 9, 2015)

What comes with the wrap handle version is not the same for every saw. Some do not have HO oilers.

Also, I think the only 661 with the vented dogs is the wrap version, but they do look & work nice on my 044!


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> Yup I guess your right. I've been selling Stihl in northern Virginia for over 20 years now. To date I've had one customer request a full wrap handle saw. That was back in 07. He wanted a heated handle full wrap 441. He's been the only one that's ever requested a full wrap saw. Guess we'll have 2 in Virginia now,LOL



Technically he's not asking for a full wrap, Stihl R versions are only 3/4 versions so he'd be the first in his class!...go for it @Glockem45


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> What comes with the wrap handle version is not the same for every saw. Some do not have HO oilers.
> 
> Also, I think the only 661 with the vented dogs is the wrap version, but they do look & work nice on my 044!



I was thinking that too Mike, I was on the understanding that the HO oiler was on the 441r and 461r versions over the std versions (might not be correct on that though), as well as the skeletonized dogs (which are really cool) on the 661R.


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## big t double (Nov 9, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> Naa not really. The guy that bought that full wrap 441 wanted those heated handles more than anything else. Said his fingers get cold and he like the idea of a warm handle. I had to order it from my distributor, Mid-Atlantic Stihl in NC. They had to get it shipped in from a distributor out west. Just no demand for heated handles or full wraps on the east coast. If there was you can rest assured we'd have them on the shelves.


No 3/4 wraps or heated handles here in middle America either. No demand. Only wrap saws we've ever sold was a 461 and 880 to a local municipality and they were special order.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

It's so sad, why can't we all just get the same stuff...


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## Skeans (Nov 9, 2015)

3/4 wrap yes but I've never seen a heated one out here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> @Glockem45 I can feel your pain. I live in an area in MT where if you want most anything you have to order it. Despite being the third largest city here, it doesn't matter if its sporting goods, clothing, tools etc. We are just in a poor location, sure we have big box stores and small dealers but just the way it goes.
> 
> Advice from a newly CAD bitten member, if you want a R version get it off the get go otherwise you'll end up just ordering another one or ordering parts. Wait you'll end up doing it anyhow.
> 
> ...



Not to argue with you but yes it does matter if he's only the 2nd guy in Virginia though I'm fairly sure there are more. Dealers aren't going to stock a $1100.00 plus saw and wait years to sell it. If he wants one he can come on up to Leesburg in the morning and I'll be happy to get him one in. ES light bars don't sell worth a hoot either though some may likem most could care less. All this talk about dealers don't know anything well come throw this ole cat for loop, I'll enjoy it...


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> Technically he's not asking for a full wrap, Stihl R versions are only 3/4 versions so he'd be the first in his class!...go for it @Glockem45


Good point there. Other than the Rescue saws we hardly ever see one or sell one.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

@THALL10326 , no direction was meant towards you directly as you clearly knew what the R version is. I was merely trying to encourage the OP that if he wants the R version to find someone whom knows what he was looking for and order one up for him.

Also in no way was trying to imply that they need to stock them, but knowing what the MFG offers is a bonus to the discerning customer as it does not build confidence in a dealer if you go in and ask for an offering and they haven't clue as to what you are talking about.

Again on the ES light bars it was merely a poke towards those dealers whom would think he is of his rocker for even asking. I've gone in to two dealers here in MT and they had to ask me twice what I was looking for, much the same they did not know what an R version was...so maybe that helps my post a bit.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

Sounds like a similar demographic we are in @THALL10326 can find a rescue version on the shelf but a 661 one is nowhere to be found, or a big Husqvarna for that mater either.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> @THALL10326 , no direction was meant towards you directly as you clearly knew what the R version is. I was merely trying to encourage the OP that if he wants the R version to find someone whom knows what he was looking for and order one up for him.
> 
> Also in no way was trying to imply that they need to stock them, but knowing what the MFG offers is a bonus to the discerning customer as it does not build confidence in a dealer if you go in and ask for an offering and they haven't clue as to what you are talking about.
> 
> Again on the ES light bars it was merely a poke towards those dealers whom would think he is of his rocker for even asking. I've gone in to two dealers here in MT and they had to ask me twice what I was looking for, much the same they did not know what an R version was...so maybe that helps my post a bit.



I'm with ya, I wasn't fussing at you. The thing I guess I noticed was the poster using a 290 and then wanting this 461 with the special handle, I'm thinking what, my goodness your using a 290 now, a regular handle 461 would be like dying and going to heaven. I'd love to sell him whatever he wants but what he's wanting is simply hard to get on the east coast for lack of demand. I'm positive he would be more than pleased with the 461 I got sitting on the shelf right now that I most certainly believe has his name engraved in under the air filter cover,LOL


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## MustangMike (Nov 9, 2015)

You should have seen the looks I got when I asked for square file chain. Neither of the dealers near hear had ever even heard of it before.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

Ha! Mike that's good stuff right there!  It's actually pretty fun now that I am learning more when I go in and talk to them. There is one guy in town that I have found (I'm sure there are more) that knows his stuff, but he is still a walk the line guy when it comes to mods, no mufflers, no porting, timing advancing, setting squish etc... So that's why I'm here learning....

Good stuff guys!


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> You should have seen the looks I got when I asked for square file chain. Neither of the dealers near hear had ever even heard of it before.



You guys are ruff on your dealers. I work 30 miles outside of DC and every once in awhile some wood chuck will come in and say ya got any square ground chain, I go nope. Why not I'm asked, I go what for, he'll say it cuts faster, I'll say yeah but it sells a lot slower, don't fool it, wants some RS chain I got tons of that, he says ok, never fails..


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## longbowch (Nov 9, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> What comes with the wrap handle version is not the same for every saw. Some do not have HO oilers.
> 
> Also, I think the only 661 with the vented dogs is the wrap version, but they do look & work nice on my 044!


You're right Mike, the 441R has stiffer springs too.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 9, 2015)

Ahh, I think like I said, you go into the dealer and expect them to know what you are at least asking for, having it is one thing, but not knowing what it is another thing. I fully understand not stocking items that don't sell makes perfect sense but at least know what it is.

It'd be like going into the nearest Ford dealer and asking them if they can order 2016 Shelby GT350R or the Dodge dealer and wanting a Hellcat and they ask you "what are you looking for again?" 

It's just frustrating when they don't know the product they sell. I know on occasion there are circumstances, but square ground, light bars, R versions are pretty common offerings and I would think it'd be common knowledge, maybe I am off base with that, but I figure if a guy who just started collecting saws knows the stuff surely the dealer should.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 9, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> Ha! Mike that's good stuff right there!  It's actually pretty fun now that I am learning more when I go in and talk to them. There is one guy in town that I have found (I'm sure there are more) that knows his stuff, but he is still a walk the line guy when it comes to mods, no mufflers, no porting, timing advancing, setting squish etc... So that's why I'm here learning....
> 
> Good stuff guys!


Ted let me tell you a good one, you will get a kick out of this. Man calls me up and tells me he has this world famous chainsaw craving buddy, he's world famous mind ya. He proceeds to ask me if he can get a MSE250 electric chainsaw and put a 10 inch carving bar on it. My first reply was are you crazy. He says no, that's what his carving buddy wants. I go well that's a awful powerful saw to be carving with and I doubt Stihl would recommend a electric saw for constant carving anyway, much less one that big with a 10 inch bar. He goes why you say that, my buddy thinks it would be awesome. I go well tell you what, take this number and call Stihl and talk to them, I've never heard of anyone wanting a set up like that. He calls Stihl, they tell him no no, not recommended. He calls me back complaining all you guys do is say no. I said you got it from the manufacturer, what do you want me to do about it. He says well my buddy knows more about carving than you guys. I go no doubt, he's a carver, I'm not. He says well you should meet him, he is world famous, do you want to meet him. I'm thinking all I want to do is get off the phone so I had to say it. I said you know what if your buddy is so world famous how come I've never heard of him, he's not that famous now is he. He goes ok ok I guess you don't care whether you meet him or not. I said your right. That got him off the phone finally. Sometimes its best to just letem go,LOL


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## 166 (Nov 9, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> Ted let me tell you a good one, you will get a kick out of this. Man calls me up and tells me he has this world famous chainsaw craving buddy, he's world famous mind ya. He proceeds to ask me if he can get a MSE250 electric chainsaw and put a 10 inch carving bar on it. My first reply was are you crazy. He says no, that's what his carving buddy wants. I go well that's a awful powerful saw to be carving with and I doubt Stihl would recommend a electric saw for constant carving anyway, much less one that big with a 10 inch bar. He goes why you say that, my buddy thinks it would be awesome. I go well tell you what, take this number and call Stihl and talk to them, I've never heard of anyone wanting a set up like that. He calls Stihl, they tell him no no, not recommended. He calls me back complaining all you guys do is say no. I said you got it from the manufacturer, what do you want me to do about it. He says well my buddy knows more about carving than you guys. I go no doubt, he's a carver, I'm not. He says well you should meet him, he is world famous, do you want to meet him. I'm thinking all I want to do is get off the phone so I had to say it. I said you know what if your buddy is so world famous how come I've never heard of him, he's not that famous now is he. He goes ok ok I guess you don't care whether you meet him or not. I said your right. That got him off the phone finally. Sometimes its best to just letem go,LOL



Hey it's good to see ya postin again! I know a world famous carver but he doesn't run Stihls!


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## THALL10326 (Nov 10, 2015)

166 said:


> Hey it's good to see ya postin again! I know a world famous carver but he doesn't run Stihls!



Does he run electric,LOL


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## 166 (Nov 10, 2015)

He doesn't but I do know of some that do.

I had another carver that bought 15 of them to sell to other carvers but I was never paid.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 10, 2015)

166 said:


> He doesn't but I do know of some that do.
> 
> I had another carver that bought 15 of them to sell to other carvers but I was never paid.



Whattttttttttttttt and you didn't get paid, now that's not good. Hey wait a minute, this guy that wants the 461 with the handle, his screen name is Glockem45. Maybe you two can work out a deal so you can get paid after all. I bought me a Glock not long ago. One ugly pistol, always said I'd never own one but figured I try one just for giggles. Gotta tell ya they do shoot good and they never jam. I got the 10mm and so far I've sent 3 ground hogs to heaven with it. Caughtem out in my garden robbing me, stealing my veggies. Glocks are pretty good..


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## 166 (Nov 10, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> Whattttttttttttttt and you didn't get paid, now that's not good. Hey wait a minute, this guy that wants the 461 with the handle, his screen name is Glockem45. Maybe you two can work out a deal so you can get paid after all. I bought me a Glock not long ago. One ugly pistol, always said I'd never own one but figured I try one just for giggles. Gotta tell ya they do shoot good and they never jam. I got the 10mm and so far I've sent 3 ground hogs to heaven with it. Caughtem out in my garden robbing me, stealing my veggies. Glocks are pretty good..



Come on up and if you get my money I'll buy you dinner at Wendy's!


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## Glockem45 (Nov 10, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> Yup I guess your right. I've been selling Stihl in northern Virginia for over 20 years now. To date I've had one customer request a full wrap handle saw. That was back in 07. He wanted a heated handle full wrap 441. He's been the only one that's ever requested a full wrap saw. Guess we'll have 2 in Virginia now,LOL



Ok then sir, perhaps I should be talking to you then. What dealership do you work at in NOVA ?


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## Glockem45 (Nov 10, 2015)

THALL10326 said:


> I'm with ya, I wasn't fussing at you. The thing I guess I noticed was the poster using a 290 and then wanting this 461 with the special handle, I'm thinking what, my goodness your using a 290 now, a regular handle 461 would be like dying and going to heaven. I'd love to sell him whatever he wants but what he's wanting is simply hard to get on the east coast for lack of demand. I'm positive he would be more than pleased with the 461 I got sitting on the shelf right now that I most certainly believe has his name engraved in under the air filter cover,LOL



Ok sir, let's do business. Please PM me your info. By the way, Leesburg is not part of NOVA.


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## Jimbo209 (Nov 11, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> They didn't fix that stupid problem when they came out with the 461 .
> 
> 
> I can take the dogs off muh 066 and put them on an 026. But not 046\461, great ingenuity there!


Have thought of that, I will now do it cheers.
Will they (026) also fit a 200t the parts looked close on my bench, but haven't tried and can't for a while


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 11, 2015)

There must be something very mysterious, terribly complicated and highly technical about chainsaws that the dealers know about and we as consumers, do not. 

That must explain all the confusion they deal with on a daily basis.............


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## Glockem45 (Nov 11, 2015)

SO, somebody needs to outline what is different between the MS461 and the MS461R please.


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 11, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> SO, somebody needs to outline what is different between the MS461 and the MS461R please.




I thought that someone already did, a few pages back.

From what I was told, the "R" package includes a high-output oiler, larger clutch cover, and side wrap handle.

As others have said, the R package is a good value.


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 11, 2015)

So, does this have a 1/2 , 3/4, or a full wrap handle?

Seems like if you ask 3 people, you get 3 different answers.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 11, 2015)

That is a 3/4 wrap handle.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

My dealer ordered me a 661R. He said he has only ordered one other "R" model in the last 15 years.

I said make it 2 now.

I cut lots of stumps, and that 3/4 is perfect for keeping breathing room so my saw dont overheat. The grinder can take the extra 2-3 inches no problem


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## MontanaTed (Nov 11, 2015)

= Full wrap 
= Half wrap 
= 3/4 Wrap


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## Glockem45 (Nov 11, 2015)

Well one of the big well respected Stihl dealers somewhat near me, is telling me that the 'R" model only comes with a 3/4 Wrap handle, nothing else is different than the MS461. They want to order me the Wrap handle, and install it on one of their MS461 saws at the store. I am at a loss now.


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## dave1974 (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi....I live in central Pa and have a 461 r.my dealer didnt have one in stock,but had no issue getting me one ordered in and I had it in a few days.There are more differences then just the 3/4 wrap handle that comes on the r model,it also has the high outout oiler,large clutch cover,duel dogs and roller catcher.


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## Skeans (Nov 11, 2015)

dave1974 said:


> Hi....I live in central Pa and have a 461 r.my dealer didnt have one in stock,but had no issue getting me one ordered in and I had it in a few days.There are more differences then just the 3/4 wrap handle that comes on the r model,it also has the high outout oiler,large clutch cover,duel dogs and roller catcher.


The R version is what we all call a west coast version of the saw.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Deets066 (Nov 11, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Well one of the big well respected Stihl dealers somewhat near me, is telling me that the 'R" model only comes with a 3/4 Wrap handle, nothing else is different than the MS461. They want to order me the Wrap handle, and install it on one of their MS461 saws at the store. I am at a loss now.


Definitely more than just a 3/4 wrap


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## Glockem45 (Nov 11, 2015)

Technically, there is nothing on the Stihl website that says what this version comes with.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Dealers on the East Coast just do not seem to handle very many wrap handle saws, just the way it is. Likely cause when you are taking down a tree in a yard, you want to stump it as close to the ground as you can.


Hey hey easy now... I got a 362r, 461r, 660R and 661R in stock....


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## Foragefarmer (Nov 11, 2015)

You have tried your local dealers, now it is time to call or email customer service at Stihl and see what they have to say.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 11, 2015)

Foragefarmer said:


> You have tried your local dealers, now it is time to call or email customer service at Stihl and see what they have to say.



Ok, I just sent a love note to Stihl. I even said to them, I will drive down to VA Beach and go pick one up at the factory door.

I also asked them for an official spec sheet that shows the differences between the MS461 and the MS461R. Lets see what they say.


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## longbowch (Nov 11, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Ok, I just sent a love note to Stihl. I even said to them, I will drive down to VA Beach and go pick one up at the factory door.
> 
> I also asked them for an official spec sheet that shows the differences between the MS461 and the MS461R. Lets see what they say.


Unless you're driving to Germany you won't pick it up at the factory.


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 11, 2015)

longbowch said:


> Unless you're driving to Germany you won't pick it up at the factory.




What about Germantown, Pennsylvania?


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Hey hey easy now... I got a 362r, 461r, 660R and 661R in stock....


That's because you're speeecial.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> That's because you're speeecial.


That is true. Truth is that 362R was just because it seems obnoxious. Annnnd figured I'd get a "What the" by Adirondackstihl and everyone else. Winning...


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 11, 2015)

A 461 would look good in my Barn nect to the other work saws, but I doubt it would have enough (if any) over my built 372 to justify the cost. I would like to run one though.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 11, 2015)

@mcobb2 A 362R would be sweet, do they add the larger clutch cover and better oiler on that too?

I had thought they offered one, but that's one that's not spoken of too often....I think the only way to prove that an East Coaster has em in stock it to see pics...isn't that how it goes? What do they say...didn't happen with out pics! 

>>>>just a little ribbing<<<< but I would like to see all those fancy R versions in one place!


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 12, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> @mcobb2 A 362R would be sweet, do they add the larger clutch cover and better oiler on that too?
> 
> I had thought they offered one, but that's one that's not spoken of too often....I think the only way to prove that an East Coaster has em in stock it to see pics...isn't that how it goes? What do they say...didn't happen with out pics!
> 
> >>>>just a little ribbing<<<< but I would like to see all those fancy R versions in one place!




A local ACE Hardware has the 461 R and the 362 R in stock. There's only about a $200.00 difference in price.


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## Big_Wood (Nov 12, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Actually mike its primarily because there arent as many hand cutters working on the east coast vs the west , nor the terrain the guys out west navigate..yard trees are taken on either coast then flushed and ground out...guys here dont run as long of bars on powerheads on this side either.



arund here we don't flush them up or grind them. we leave them to rot.. guess they find it to expensive the pay a guy to go grind stumps. sucks falling and trying to miss all the stumps i created and ones from the last pass in that block. thankfully most of the old ones are rotten enough to not break wood though.


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## BlueLude2001 (Nov 12, 2015)

When I purchased my first saw I ordered a 362r. Bless this woman's heart she kept trying to order the actual handle. She finally got confused enough to to call her brother in (owner) and he said he knew what it was and has never ordered one. He kept calling it a west coast handle but regardless the woman now remembers me as the "special saw guy" whenever I come in now and gives me deals when she can.


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## macattack_ga (Nov 12, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Well one of the big well respected Stihl dealers somewhat near me, is telling me that the 'R" model only comes with a 3/4 Wrap handle, nothing else is different than the MS461. They want to order me the Wrap handle, and install it on one of their MS461 saws at the store. I am at a loss now.



I just ordered a 461R from Va Outdoor Power Equipment. It took'em a minute and a couple of phone calls, but they got it figured out. 
Sold as PHO. I got a 24" bar for it too. It'll be here next week if you want to see it.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 12, 2015)

Welcome Glockem.

Stick around here long enough and you will end up with a few of these in your new saw, done by a certain pistol packing monkey!

Nice avatar by the way. Is that a castle? ;-)


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## macattack_ga (Nov 12, 2015)

clemsonfor said:


> Is that a castle? ;-)



USACE


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## clemsonfor (Nov 12, 2015)

macattack_ga said:


> USACE


Ahhh, thats right. I knew I had seen it somewhere ;-). When I go to the lake I see it on the signs at the boat ramp. And on tv when Bush sent that hurricane to New Orleans I remember seeing it on tv all the time!


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## clemsonfor (Nov 12, 2015)

Oh and Yea I think its a requirement to be an idiot to own or work at a stihl dealership? (No offense to anyone here who owns or works at one.) I have started bringing in the part number off the ipl if I need something at one.


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## macattack_ga (Nov 12, 2015)

I was pretty impressed with the young man I bought my saw from.
He didn't know, but didn't claim to know everything.
He knew who he could call and had no problem calling and asking.

Some guys will say "I've been selling saws for XX years and I never...."


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 12, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> @mcobb2 A 362R would be sweet, do they add the larger clutch cover and better oiler on that too?
> 
> I had thought they offered one, but that's one that's not spoken of too often....I think the only way to prove that an East Coaster has em in stock it to see pics...isn't that how it goes? What do they say...didn't happen with out pics!
> 
> >>>>just a little ribbing<<<< but I would like to see all those fancy R versions in one place!



No high output oiler on a 362 R , everything else applies though.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 12, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> No high output oiler on a 362 R , everything else applies though.


That is not awesome ,is a 460 ,461.660 oiler the same ?


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## 1Alpha1 (Nov 12, 2015)

It's pretty damn awesome when an internet forum knows more about chainsaws than most of the dealers selling um. 

For those of you that keep the rest of us informed, I present you this.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 13, 2015)

2123 said:


> It's pretty damn awesome when an internet forum knows more about chainsaws than most of the dealers selling um.
> 
> For those of you that keep the rest of us informed, I present you this.



You know what's awesome, some of the members on this site? I just purchased the MS461R today over the phone from one of them, and it is already on a Brown Truck headed this way. Can't wait to fire this bad boy up next week when it shows up. What can brown do for you today?


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## Glockem45 (Nov 13, 2015)

clemsonfor said:


> Welcome Glockem.
> 
> Stick around here long enough and you will end up with a few of these in your new saw, done by a certain pistol packing monkey!
> 
> Nice avatar by the way. Is that a castle? ;-)



You mean someone is going to install two dancing bananas into my MS461R ? Not sure where they will go, but I am willing to try it....


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 13, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> You mean someone is going to install two dancing bananas into my MS461R ? Not sure where they will go, but I am willing to try it....


They are usually tied into the transfers on the intake side .


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## clemsonfor (Nov 13, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> You mean someone is going to install two dancing bananas into my MS461R ? Not sure where they will go, but I am willing to try it....


You even get a fancy oval sticker for that new shiney saw as well!!


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## Glockem45 (Nov 17, 2015)

Well I understand my MS461R has been delivered. Time to get home and check it out.


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## dave1974 (Nov 17, 2015)

It's a good saw,I'm sure you will enjoy using it.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 17, 2015)

So I probably know the answer, but is there a Stihl Clamshell case that fits the MS461R model since it has a Wrap Handle ?


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## dave1974 (Nov 17, 2015)

Not that I know of....the stihl woodsman case that most dealers carry won't work with that saw.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 17, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> So I probably know the answer, but is there a Stihl Clamshell case that fits the MS461R model since it has a Wrap Handle ?


No sir... Come on let's see some pics!


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## Glockem45 (Nov 17, 2015)

Where is the thread that explains how to post pics on this website?


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## Skeans (Nov 17, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Where is the thread that explains how to post pics on this website?


Fastest and easiest way is to use Tapatalk on a smart phone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## hseII (Nov 17, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> So, I want to buy a new MS461 with the Large Wrap handle and the Large Dogs with a 25" bar. I thought this is a common saw. On the Stihl website, they call it the MS461R. So I have contacted 4 different dealers locally to order this for me, and they all want to know why I want the MS461R "Rescue Saw". None of them seem to know about the regular R version. Am I calling this model/version the wrong thing? What should expect to pay for this here in Virginia?
> 
> Yes I know, probably a NEWB question, but I had to do it since my local dealers can't tell me.



You must live in The SouthEastern United States like I do.
The rep said,
"He can just buy the Regular 461 and then buy all those extra items, can't he?" 

I **** You Knot.

My Dealer was as aggravated as me. 

I've got to call them back tomorrow.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 17, 2015)

And I'm here using them for footstools here in the northeast...


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## Glockem45 (Nov 18, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> And I'm here using them for footstools here in the northeast...



Not anymore your not....


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## Glockem45 (Nov 18, 2015)

Here are some teaser pics.


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## hseII (Nov 18, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> And I'm here using them for footstools here in the northeast...


No Kidding!!!


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## hseII (Nov 18, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Here are some teaser pics.
> View attachment 462169
> 
> View attachment 462170


From the bottom of Muh Heart, "I have a potty mouth".


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## Glockem45 (Nov 23, 2015)

I want to first thank mcobb2. So, today was the day. I am off all week and instead of hunting bucks, I was starting a new past time, NOODLING. I am not sure how wide my smile was supposed to be, but I popped my Cherry on this saw. I will post pics shortly, but I was cutting 25" Red Oak rounds today for about 3 hours, and stacked 3 full pallets of quarters to get them off the ground and airing out, plus have them ready when I want to run the log splitter. I have two 85' tall Red Oak rounds on the ground, and I Noodled about a 3rd of them today in no time.

Two things to get used to. A Yellow chain, and oh yea, a 70cc Saw that pulls you into the round. I am going to call my new saw the "Butter Knife", as it just cuts through these hard Red Oak rounds like nothing. What a superior improvement to Noodling with my MS290 Farm Boss....


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 23, 2015)

That would be akin to being surprised how mush more a single wheel one-tone will drag/pull/haul over a S10 or Ford Rangeer... LMAO. 

I had the same awakening when I bought my now departed MS660. I went from an 039 Stihl being my "big" saw to it and Dad and I used the hellout of it until the day it burned up in my ld truck (along with my 346xp, Husky 55 and Stihl 039)... When you go from a good saw to a GREAT saw (or any tool for that matter) it is amazing the difference. It makes one tend to wonder how you got along previous to acquiring it. Congrats again and a whole-hearted YOU SUCK is in order!


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## Hero (Nov 23, 2015)

It is amazing. I went from 281 to 461,  Wow what a saw. Twice as fast


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 23, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> That is true. Truth is that 362R was just because it seems obnoxious. Annnnd figured I'd get a "What the" by Adirondackstihl and everyone else. Winning...


Who me? "What the"?


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## hseII (Nov 23, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Who me? "What the"?


We.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 23, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> I want to first thank mcobb2. So, today was the day. I am off all week and instead of hunting bucks, I was starting a new past time, NOODLING. I am not sure how wide my smile was supposed to be, but I popped my Cherry on this saw. I will post pics shortly, but I was cutting 25" Red Oak rounds today for about 3 hours, and stacked 3 full pallets of quarters to get them off the ground and airing out, plus have them ready when I want to run the log splitter. I have two 85' tall Red Oak rounds on the ground, and I Noodled about a 3rd of them today in no time.
> 
> Two things to get used to. A Yellow chain, and oh yea, a 70cc Saw that pulls you into the round. I am going to call my new saw the "Butter Knife", as it just cuts through these hard Red Oak rounds like nothing. What a superior improvement to Noodling with my MS290 Farm Boss....


Glad to hear!!!! Enjoy!


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 23, 2015)

hseII said:


> We.


You?


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## hseII (Nov 23, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> You?


I said We.

Have madam LepraWookie knock the engineer's erasers out of your ear canal whure you can hears. 

I'm sending a knocker: should be there tomorrow.: wait by the Box.


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 23, 2015)

hseII said:


> I said We.
> 
> Have madam LepraWookie knock the engineer's erasers out of your ear canal whure you can hears.
> 
> I'm sending a knocker: should be there tomorrow.: wait by the Box.


You are a gentleman and a scholar


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## treesmith (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> You mean someone is going to install two dancing bananas into my MS461R ? Not sure where they will go, but I am willing to try it....



If you like the saw now, you'll love it with xtra bananas, then you'll be doing the dancing


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## hseII (Nov 24, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> You are a gentleman and a scholar


That's not what my wife says, but what does she know?


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## mcobb2 (Nov 24, 2015)

hseII said:


> That's not what my wife says, but what does she know?


Heath how'd your saw search go?


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## hseII (Nov 24, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Heath how'd your saw search go?



You didn't get Muh text?


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 24, 2015)

hseII said:


> You didn't get Muh text?


He's got you on ignore n stuffs


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## mcobb2 (Nov 24, 2015)

hseII said:


> You didn't get Muh text?


Muh Heart is Palpitating 


That's the last I got from you... I'm getting the chopped liver treatment.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 24, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> He's got you on ignore n stuffs


Go file yourself...


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## hseII (Nov 24, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Heath how'd your saw search go?


There is supposed to be one at the home Stihlership.

I'm in NC....


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## Glockem45 (Nov 24, 2015)

treesmith said:


> If you like the saw now, you'll love it with xtra bananas, then you'll be doing the dancing



Ok, what's the deal with these bananas and saws ?


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## hseII (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Ok, what's the deal with these bananas and saws ?





No Idea.


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Ok, what's the deal with these bananas and saws ?



Randy (Mastermind) uses a Chimp with a gun in his logo, so we have developed some slang with extra bananas referring to getting a port job from Randy.

Porting, especially by a professional, can really wake up a saw.


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

Oh, to explain the post previous to mine, Randy in located in TN.

It will all make sense to you soon.


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## Glockem45 (Nov 24, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Randy (Mastermind) uses a Chimp with a gun in his logo, so we have developed some slang with extra bananas referring to getting a port job from Randy.
> 
> Porting, especially by a professional, can really wake up a saw.




Ok, well considering I just went from a Chevy to a Cadillac in Saws, I don't think I need any more HP just yet.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> I don't think I need any more HP just yet.



Folks ................. we got ourselves a rookie on our hands 


Glockem, hang around here long enough and you will get a new perspective on that


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## Glockem45 (Nov 24, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Oh, to explain the post previous to mine, Randy in located in TN.
> 
> It will all make sense to you soon.



Yes, the FEDEX tracking info above really threw me for a loop.


Moparmyway said:


> Folks ................. we got ourselves a rookie on our hands
> 
> 
> Glockem, hang around here long enough and you will get a new perspective on that



I plan to. I have spent all kinds of stupid money on firewood equipment lately, it is ridiculous. The MS461R was icing on the cake. Actually, I picked up a nice VC Vigilant today that came with all the fixings too.


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

A 461 is a very fine running stock saw. Likely, you will pick up how to mod the muff, in conjunction to removing the limiters on the carb screws to enable it to run properly. From there, your quest for more power may continue. It is addictive.

Go to a GTG (Chainsaw Get ToGether) and run some ported saws and your viewpoint may change.

It is always rewarding to be able to cut more wood in less time.

A lot of people think a Mustang GT is strong just from the factory, but with SuperChargers available, how could you not??? (Went from 300 to 530 Hp, great bang for the buck).

In case you have not figured it out yet, you are in the company of addictive nuts! Enjoy the ride.


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## MontanaTed (Nov 24, 2015)

Took me less than a year to acquire a ported saw...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Glockem45 (Nov 24, 2015)

Here are some pictures from my first run of the saw on some red oak rounds.


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

Took me less than 2 years to get 4!!!


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Here are some pictures from my first run of the saw on some red oak rounds.



Nice, now you know a dp muff cover will fit right on that saw, right??? Then remove the carb limiters, advance the timing ..... you will love it!!!


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## Glockem45 (Nov 24, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> A 461 is a very fine running stock saw. Likely, you will pick up how to mod the muff, in conjunction to removing the limiters on the carb screws to enable it to run properly. From there, your quest for more power may continue. It is addictive.
> 
> Go to a GTG (Chainsaw Get ToGether) and run some ported saws and your viewpoint may change.
> 
> ...



I agree with you. Trust me, I used to race motorcycles (road course racing), and going from a 600cc to a Liter bike at a 1000cc or more, now that is serious step up. Let me run this one for a while first, then I may think about monkeying with supping the saw up with bananas....


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 24, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Nice, now you know a dp muff cover will fit right on that saw, right??? Then remove the carb limiters, advance the timing ..... you will love it!!!



He can just enlarge the stock opening mike , same same.


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## treesmith (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Ok, well considering I just went from a Chevy to a Cadillac in Saws, I don't think I need any more HP just yet.



Mahahahahahahahahaha, that's really funny, you said "need"

Stick around, that'll change 

There was a dyno test on a 461xb (xtra bananas) built by Randy, can't remember the power figure but it was a bit special.

There are other highly skilled porters on this site, never ran any of their saws but have owned a few of Randy's, they range from "this thing is bloody awesome" to "holy ****"


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Ok, well considering I just went from a Chevy to a Cadillac in Saws, I don't think I need any more HP just yet.



Work on your chains before you send it to get ported , its the best saw mod there is , no increase in power makes up for a shitty chain.


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## hseII (Nov 24, 2015)




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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 24, 2015)

treesmith said:


> Mahahahahahahahahaha, that's really funny, you said "need"
> 
> Stick around, that'll change
> 
> ...



It was a 1hp gain...brads 461s are phuckin killers..i have one , and alot of saws from other builders..


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## Glockem45 (Nov 24, 2015)

Oh, I wanted to ask about the air filter. See pictures. I took the saw apart and cleaned it all up, then I opened the air box and saw the filter all clogged up. Should it be this packed with stuff after only running it on Noodling for a few hours?


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## hseII (Nov 24, 2015)

MontanaTed said:


> Took me less than a year to acquire a ported saw...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



5 months


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Oh, I wanted to ask about the air filter. See pictures. I took the saw apart and cleaned it all up, then I opened the air box and saw the filter all clogged up. Should it be this packed with stuff after only running it on Noodling for a few hours?
> 
> View attachment 463866
> View attachment 463867



Its not unusual , the filtration kinda sucks on that style of saw...i run a max-flow.


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## big t double (Nov 24, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Oh, I wanted to ask about the air filter. See pictures. I took the saw apart and cleaned it all up, then I opened the air box and saw the filter all clogged up. Should it be this packed with stuff after only running it on Noodling for a few hours?
> 
> View attachment 463866
> View attachment 463867


Welcome to the wonderful world of Stihl air filtration


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## treesmith (Nov 24, 2015)

They block up but the only ones I've seen that let anything past them weren't fitted properly. Just knock them out every tank


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

Those pleated filters breath very well, so even partially plugged, they still work. I don't clean em every tank, but every few is a good idea.

The top usually gets the most chips.


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## hseII (Nov 25, 2015)

I'm not Home, 
But this 461R is.


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## Jimbo209 (Nov 26, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Oh, I wanted to ask about the air filter. See pictures. I took the saw apart and cleaned it all up, then I opened the air box and saw the filter all clogged up. Should it be this packed with stuff after only running it on Noodling for a few hours?
> 
> View attachment 463866
> View attachment 463867


That's fine. More problematic would be what gets past into the throat of the saw.
Which is where the hd2 shines


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## hseII (Nov 26, 2015)

Jimbo209 said:


> That's fine. More problematic would be what gets past into the throat of the saw.
> Which is where the hd2 shines


The 461 filter isn't patterned after the HD2?


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## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2015)

I run a max flow in all the stihls I have. Mostly without the cover if there's no chance of rain.


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## hseII (Nov 26, 2015)

So Far, So Good.


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## MustangMike (Nov 26, 2015)

The 461 comes with an HD-2. The max flow will last longer between cleanings, but is bulkier.


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## hseII (Nov 27, 2015)

It likes Full Comp Square much better than skip on a 24/25" BA.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 27, 2015)




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## hseII (Nov 27, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> View attachment 464416
> View attachment 464417


Has your 461 been to Tennessee?


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 27, 2015)

hseII said:


> Has your 461 been to Tennessee?


Was the first one he got to play with.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/the-ms461-a-peek-inside.210651/


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## mcobb2 (Nov 27, 2015)

hseII said:


> View attachment 464415
> 
> 
> It likes Full Comp Square much better than skip on a 24/25" BA.


I heard the Southeast Stihl MS461's were detuned compared to Northeast Stihl ones...


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 27, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> I heard the Southeast Stihl MS461's were detuned compared to Northeast Stihl ones...


You have not run the northwest version i take it then ......


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## jetmd (Nov 27, 2015)

You know this whole ported saw thing is just a Fad!


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## hseII (Nov 27, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> I heard the Southeast Stihl MS461's were detuned compared to Northeast Stihl ones...


BaHaHaHa.

Good thing this one come from Stihl Southwest, seeing as SouthEast doesn't carry "R" models. 
They want to sell/sale/sail you the Regula 461, and then sell the Wrap handle, Big Clutch cover, and HO Oil pump FO extra.


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## Boozer (Nov 27, 2015)

Mine came today! Banana fortified...will be seeing wood tomorrow!
All I hear is how the 461's rip, can't hardly wait.


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## MustangMike (Nov 29, 2015)

We can't hardly wait for your report???


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## SteveSr (Dec 1, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Oh, I wanted to ask about the air filter. See pictures. I took the saw apart and cleaned it all up, then I opened the air box and saw the filter all clogged up. Should it be this packed with stuff after only running it on Noodling for a few hours?


Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these filters supposed to have a round foam pre-filter on them? The pre-filter catches the big crud while the main element is for small dust. The pre-filter cleans easily in the sink with dish soap and a *soft* paint brush.

I have a 33 year old Honda lawnmower with the same system. The foam pre-filter gets cleaned and re-oiled annually. The main filter has been replaced once in 33 years!


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## mcobb2 (Dec 1, 2015)

SteveSr said:


> Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these filters supposed to have a round foam pre-filter on them? The pre-filter catches the big crud while the main element is for small dust. The pre-filter cleans easily in the sink with dish soap and a *soft* paint brush.
> 
> I have a 33 year old Honda lawnmower with the same system. The foam pre-filter gets cleaned and re-oiled annually. The main filter has been replaced once in 33 years!


Only the original HD filters. The new HD2's do not have a prefilter on them. Some run the Outerwears on them with good results.


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## Glockem45 (Dec 1, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Only the original HD filters. The new HD2's do not have a prefilter on them. Some run the Outerwears on them with good results.



So what I have on my New ms461r is the HD2 filter?


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## SteveSr (Dec 1, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Only the original HD filters. The new HD2's do not have a prefilter on them. Some run the Outerwears on them with good results.


By "Outerwears" are you referring to the prefilter? Are some folks adding the prefilter to the HD2?


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## mcobb2 (Dec 1, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> So what I have on my New ms461r is the HD2 filter?


Correct, you have an HD2.


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## mcobb2 (Dec 1, 2015)

SteveSr said:


> By "Outerwears" are you referring to the prefilter? Are some folks adding the prefilter to the HD2?



Yessir


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## SteveSr (Dec 1, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> View attachment 465782
> Yessir


Here is a thread that discusses various prefilter options for the 460 series and others:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/only-gripe-ive-got-for-stihl-461-so-far.216042/


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## MustangMike (Dec 1, 2015)

Most people concur that the HD-2 w/o the outerwear is the better set up. Just tap out the chips every few tanks. The pleated filter has a lot more flow than non pleated filters (more surface area, by far). I have them on all my saws. The Max Flow may be even better, but adds bulk.


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## Glockem45 (Dec 1, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> You have not run the northwest version i take it then ......



Oh crap, I bought the wrong version?


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## mdavlee (Dec 1, 2015)

Max flow without the covers isn't bad. The cover is a little bigger but the filter is much easier to clean than the HD2. When you pack an HD 2 with two nations of milling dust/chips they don't tap out that easily.


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## MustangMike (Dec 1, 2015)

I believe you, but I don't mill, and my chips tap out.


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## SteveSr (Dec 1, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Oh crap, I bought the wrong version?


Feel your leg getting longer?


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## SteveSr (Dec 1, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Max flow without the covers isn't bad. The cover is a little bigger but the filter is much easier to clean than the HD2. When you pack an HD 2 with two nations of milling dust/chips they don't tap out that easily.



I would probably try compressed air from the *inside* to remove the bigger stuff. Eventually, there will be enough carb spit-back oil on the element to hold the fines to the element. Then you'll have to come up with something else to remove both the oil and the fines.

Too bad they don't make Teflon/Gor-tex filters for saws. I have one of these on my shop-vac which works extremely well but it doesn't have the spit-back oil issue.


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## Derf (Dec 2, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Why no wrap saws on the rh coast ? i never understood that . You guys have 2 hands just like us .



I believe that it has been mentioned before, but I'll say it again here. 

In the PNW pro saws that offer wrap handles are often purchased by loggers. On the east coast pro saws are often purchased by landscaping crews who will be servicing homeowners concerned with leaving minimal stump on tree removals. On flat ground, a half wrap can cut a bit lower than a full wrap. 

Wrap handles are required equipment for BC fallers on saws with 24"+ bars. 

The primary advantage is they let you work on either side of a tree when felling. The ability to work on either side of a tree is an important safety measure, and especially important when one side is difficult to approach, mostly due to uneven terrain seen out west and up north. On the east coast the terrain is often flatter and either side of a tree is available to cut from. 

While you can "back bar" from the opposite side with any saw, you cannot "dog in" and have the saw self feed into the cut. On smaller or occasional trees this method may not be an issue, but on larger trees, often seen in the PNW, for fallers working all day, stamina for back barring is difficult and tedious. 

Therefore, wrap handles are preferential for reducing fatigue, allowing the operator dogging in and felling larger trees when circumstances force approaching from the alternative side due to terrain. On the east coast the wood is harder but often smaller diameter, and flatter terrain often make wrap handles simply extra weight and cost.


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## Glockem45 (Dec 2, 2015)

Derf said:


> I believe that it has been mentioned before, but I'll say it again here.
> 
> In the PNW pro saws that offer wrap handles are often purchased by loggers. On the east coast pro saws are often purchased by landscaping crews who will be servicing homeowners concerned with leaving minimal stump on tree removals. On flat ground, a half wrap can cut a bit lower than a full wrap.
> 
> ...



Great post. I agree with you. Home owners in the east aren't worried about residual stump height, and why, because we get them all ground down by local wood chucks anyway. Assuming of course you are talking about"yard trees".

Also, while the wood is smaller here in the east (e.g. Yellow poplar or red oak compared to the mighty Doug Fir in PNW), the terrain is just as hardy. Come log out in the mountains of southern or eastern West Virginia, and a wrap handle shines.


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## cmsmoke (Dec 2, 2015)

Glockem45, when I bought my 460 a few years ago, I went through the exact same thing you did. The dealer kept saying Resque saw. Finally they called Stihl in Virginia. I can't put much blame on the dealer. They know everything about what is in the store, but something out of the norm in a particular area is understandable. Also most Stihl dealers carry lawn mowers, snow lowers, tractors, ect.. I guess you can't expect them to know complete product lines of every manufacture they carry. The dealer did get it for me and they do treat me well. I know when I research something, usually I know more than the salesman. I'm glad you got it worked out.


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## Glockem45 (Dec 2, 2015)

SteveSr said:


> Feel your leg getting longer?



Not sure, what does that mean?


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## Glockem45 (Dec 2, 2015)

cmsmoke said:


> Glockem45, when I bought my 460 a few years ago, I went through the exact same thing you did. The dealer kept saying Resque saw. Finally they called Stihl in Virginia. I can't put much blame on the dealer. They know everything about what is in the store, but something out of the norm in a particular area is understandable. Also most Stihl dealers carry lawn mowers, snow lowers, tractors, ect.. I guess you can't expect them to know complete product lines of every manufacture they carry. The dealer did get it for me and they do treat me well. I know when I research something, usually I know more than the salesman. I'm glad you got it worked out.



Yes I agree with you. It was just a frustrating process.


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## Derf (Dec 2, 2015)

Glockem45 said:


> Great post. I agree with you. Home owners in the east aren't worried about residual stump height, and why, because we get them all ground down by local wood chucks anyway. Assuming of course you are talking about"yard trees".
> 
> Also, while the wood is smaller here in the east (e.g. Yellow poplar or red oak compared to the mighty Doug Fir in PNW), the terrain is just as hardy. Come log out in the mountains of southern or eastern West Virginia, and a wrap handle shines.



Yes, it _can be_ mountainous, but as I said it is _often_ flatter. It's hard to categorize an entire side of a continent. There are wrap handles used in the east, but I was making a generalization to understand the generalized mentality against wrap handles in the east.


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## Glockem45 (Dec 2, 2015)

Derf said:


> Yes, it _can be_ mountainous, but as I said it is _often_ flatter. It's hard to categorize an entire side of a continent. There are wrap handles used in the east, but I was making a generalization to understand the generalized mentality against wrap handles in the east.



Like I said. I agree with you.


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## MustangMike (Dec 2, 2015)

Fred, I thought your summary was excellent, and I often have to take stumps down "as low as possible" for people. Some just want to be able to mow over it, others want them removed, but if you are getting it removed, you don't want a high stump, makes a lot of extra work / $ for the stump remover.

Many times, I will start a cut with the top of the bar, then flip the saw to be able to work the dogs. Makes it easier to get the correct cut angle.

My saws are also often transported on trailers, etc that may have limited space (due to other equipment, etc), or even on the back of my ATV. In these situations, they are transported more easily w/o a wrap handle.


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## Only Stihl USA (Jul 29, 2018)

Deets066 said:


> They didn't fix that stupid problem when they came out with the 461 .
> 
> Got the big dogs on my 026 also but inside only, they dont line up evenly with outside dawgs and it functions better with inside only
> I can take the dogs off muh 066 and put them on an 026. But not 046\461, great ingenuity there!


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## JustinSL (Jul 29, 2018)

I’ve been going through this whole deal with my stihl dealer as well. No one around here knows about the R model.


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## hseII (Jul 29, 2018)

JustinSL said:


> I’ve been going through this whole deal with my stihl dealer as well. No one around here knows about the R model.



Tell them to look on the 461 boxes or call Stihl Southwest.


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## JustinSL (Jul 29, 2018)

hseII said:


> Tell them to look on the 461 boxes or call Stihl Southwest.


Thanks will do , I’d like to have the R model over the regular version because of the H.O. Oiler and dogs. Here in WV timber cutters don’t really use the wrap handlebar because of cutting so low to the ground bore cutting. I think I’d like to try it and if I don’t like it I’m sure I can trade someone here for a regular set of bars. Thanks a lot for your help.


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## Skeans (Jul 29, 2018)

Your stumps won’t be much taller maybe an inch at most taller the nice part is being doing work from both sides easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skeans (Jul 29, 2018)

It’s a husky but same idea the high side is as low as we could go because of the back cut and the face was hitting the dirt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wally Revolver (Jul 3, 2019)

I joined this forum after reading the questions and comments about the MS-461. First of all, I'm sorry your Stihl dealer could not answer your question. I am a Stihl dealer and it's our job to know the answers or to, at least, get you the correct answer.
So here it is in a nut shell. First one (MS-461). This the standard model. It is available with a 16, 18, 20, 22, 25, 28, 32 or 36 inch bar. Second (MS-461R). This the same as the standard model except it comes standard with a full wrap handle. 
Third (MS-461R Rescue). This model is specifically made for first responders, civilian and military. It comes standard with a full wrap handle, 20 inch bar with carbide saw chain and a large D-ring starter grip. Forth (MS-461R Rescue DL)
This model is the same as the MS-461R Rescue except it comes standard with a Depth Limiter. A device that attaches to the saw and allows only the first 3 inches of the saw to do the cutting so what ever it is, or who it is, behind what ever they are cutting does not get damaged or injured. Motor displacement and HP are the same one all models.


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## stihlaficionado (Jul 3, 2019)

Wally Revolver said:


> I joined this forum after reading the questions and comments about the MS-461. First of all, I'm sorry your Stihl dealer could not answer your question. I am a Stihl dealer and it's our job to know the answers or to, at least, get you the correct answer.
> So here it is in a nut shell. First one (MS-461). This the standard model. It is available with a 16, 18, 20, 22, 25, 28, 32 or 36 inch bar. Second (MS-461R). This the same as the standard model except it comes standard with a full wrap handle.
> Third (MS-461R Rescue). This model is specifically made for first responders, civilian and military. It comes standard with a full wrap handle, 20 inch bar with carbide saw chain and a large D-ring starter grip. Forth (MS-461R Rescue DL)
> This model is the same as the MS-461R Rescue except it comes standard with a Depth Limiter. A device that attaches to the saw and allows only the first 3 inches of the saw to do the cutting so what ever it is, or who it is, behind what ever they are cutting does not get damaged or injured. Motor displacement and HP are the same one all models.


461R (wrap) also comes with double dawgs
which are not standard on the 461 I believe. I know that the first 461 I bought years ago only came with one 
& if I wanted a double set it was more $$


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## MustangMike (Jul 3, 2019)

Many wrap models come with West Coast chain cover, double dogs, chain catch, and HD Oiler.


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## Adirondackstihl (Jul 3, 2019)

Not a FULL wrap however.


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## MustangMike (Jul 4, 2019)

How's it going Jeremy?


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## Adirondackstihl (Jul 4, 2019)

MustangMike said:


> How's it going Jeremy?


Same chit different wheelbarrow Mike.
Can’t complain I guess


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## Ax-man (Jul 4, 2019)

Isn't the porting different on an actual R model to give the saw more bottom end torque or grunt verses speed ? I got into this discussion with our Stihl dealer and they looked up the cylinder for an 046 and there were two different cylinder options one for a regular 046 chainsaw and an 046 Rescue saw . I have one of these Rescue saws with that style of wrap handle and it is a tad slower than a regular 046 . I always liked that saw because of the torque and the handle . The only drawback to that style handle is taking the bar off or putting it back on and to tension the chain.

I know we are discussing 461 but it is still basically the same saw.


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## Adirondackstihl (Jul 4, 2019)

Ax-man said:


> Isn't the porting different on an actual R model to give the saw more bottom end torque or grunt verses speed ? I got into this discussion with our Stihl dealer and they looked up the cylinder for an 046 and there were two different cylinder options one for a regular 046 chainsaw and an 046 Rescue saw . I have one of these Rescue saws with that style of wrap handle and it is a tad slower than a regular 046 . I always liked that saw because of the torque and the handle . The only drawback to that style handle is taking the bar off or putting it back on and to tension the chain.
> 
> I know we are discussing 461 but it is still basically the same saw.


Nope


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## catbuster (Jul 4, 2019)

There is no difference in cylinders between the R models, wrap or rescue and the stock saw. The 046 had two different cylinders. The first ones came with a D shaped combustion chamber, which made better compression, and the later cylinder was shaped differently.

The 461 cylinders won’t bolt up to an 046/MS 460. Most parts fit on one another. However, while the cases are similar in size & dimensions, the cylinder bolts are quite a bit different.


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## Ax-man (Jul 4, 2019)

Thanks, I didn't know this because I am behind the times when it comes to these newer saws. Sorry for the derail of the thread .


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## MustangMike (Jul 4, 2019)

They are similar in a lot of ways, but the 461 is a quad port and the lower transfer feeds from the front (not the sides), so the cylinder bolt pattern is longer.

3 of the 4 starter recoil bolts will line up, and you can swap em, but they are not the same. Also, the decomp on a 461 is not in the center, and they have 3 bolt / limited RPM coils. (but you can swap coils and they run just fine).

Also, the 461 comes with a HD-50 carb … has different fuel circuitry. Most 440s/460s don't like that carb, but I have one ported 460 that just really improved with that carb … go figure! (It won the ported 460 competition at this years Upstate NY GTG.)

460s and 461s share the same tank holders and mufflers, chain brakes, etc. I think the flywheels, oilers and clutches are also the same.

They have the same HP, but most people feel the 461 has a broader torque range.


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## JustinSL (Jul 5, 2019)

I couldn’t find a 461 r in my area and the dealer wanted $1200 for one so I made my own out of a new 461 I found for $980 OTD. I put the big clutch cover on it , high output oiler, and the factory dogs. Mine is just like a R model minus the wrap handle.


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## cary911 (Jul 5, 2019)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Its borderline scary to me how clueless people can be about products they offer.


You should see Car Salespeople here in the UP! … Customer service is a lost art anymore


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 3, 2020)

I bought an R a couple years ago. I bought it specifically for the wrap handle. When it arrived, it did have the wrap handle, the box said 461R. I’m not sure about the Oiler though. I’m runnin a 32 in bar and full comp chain. It seemed to dry out after some cutting. I cleaned behind the log plate and Oiler port and ran it “a little” and it seemed to oil better. Going to run a tank through on some big ash to be sure. 

my Oiler only has 1/4 turn adjustment. I can see the pin stop but it appears hard to access. I heard you can recess that pin and get more flow.


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 3, 2020)

JustinSL said:


> View attachment 745256
> I couldn’t find a 461 r in my area and the dealer wanted $1200 for one so I made my own out of a new 461 I found for $980 OTD. I put the big clutch cover on it , high output oiler, and the factory dogs. Mine is just like a R model minus the wrap handle.



what did those extras cost you? I bought a wrap handle for my 361 and it cost me $168. My R only cost me about $970 and I special ordered it. (Sans bar and chain of course).


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## MustangMike (Feb 3, 2020)

Sometimes the oil restriction is the hole in the bar (some Stihl bars have very small oil holes). I have drilled some of mine out. It is hardened steel, so be careful not to break the bits.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 3, 2020)

Thomas Lilli said:


> I bought an R a couple years ago. I bought it specifically for the wrap handle. When it arrived, it did have the wrap handle, the box said 461R. I’m not sure about the Oiler though. I’m runnin a 32 in bar and full comp chain. It seemed to dry out after some cutting. I cleaned behind the log plate and Oiler port and ran it “a little” and it seemed to oil better. Going to run a tank through on some big ash to be sure.
> 
> my Oiler only has 1/4 turn adjustment. I can see the pin stop but it appears hard to access. I heard you can recess that pin and get more flow.



I've never seen a pin on any 461. Drill the oil port on the bar, it helps.


----------



## cary911 (Feb 3, 2020)




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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 3, 2020)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I've never seen a pin on any 461. Drill the oil port on the bar, it helps.


The pin is at about 7 o’clock when lookin from the chain side on the bottom. You have ti view it however from the 12 o’clock position, you can’t see it looking straight down. If you look at a 462, it’s much easier to see.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 4, 2020)

Thomas Lilli said:


> The pin is at about 7 o’clock when lookin from the chain side on the bottom. You have ti view it however from the 12 o’clock position, you can’t see it looking straight down. If you look at a 462, it’s much easier to see.



462..Yes. 661...Yes.

I've had 4 or 5 461s personally and put HO oil pumps in more standard models than I can remember. Never saw a pin, the 2 pumps on my workbench don't have a pin either.


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 4, 2020)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> 462..Yes. 661...Yes.
> 
> I've had 4 or 5 461s personally and put HO oil pumps in more standard models than I can remember. Never saw a pin, the 2 pumps on my workbench don't have a pin either.


The pin I’m referring to is on the saw, not the pump. Maybe I should refrain from talk about it since I have not actually done the procedure described.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 4, 2020)

Thomas Lilli said:


> The pin I’m referring to is on the saw, not the pump. Maybe I should refrain from talk about it since I have not actually done the procedure described.



That 1/4 turn is all the way up. That stop you feel is the pump body itself.


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 4, 2020)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> That 1/4 turn is all the way up. That stop you feel is the pump body itself.


I see thanks.


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 4, 2020)

Trx250r180 said:


> Why no wrap saws on the rh coast ? i never understood that . You guys have 2 hands just like us .


I have wrap handles on my 361 and 461. I live in PA.


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## MustangMike (Feb 4, 2020)

Because 1) We cut a lot of lawn trees, and you can get the stump lower w/o them, and;

2) They add weight to a saw that is not necessary if you are not a feller.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 5, 2020)

MustangMike said:


> Because 1) We cut a lot of lawn trees, and you can get the stump lower w/o them, and;
> 
> 2) They add weight to a saw that is not necessary if you are not a feller.



Mike, I think people on the east and west coast have the tree in their backyard cut down just the same. A tree service in Portland does the same thing one in Philadelphia does.

Wrap handles are on the west more commonly because of the terrain they log and add the option to cut from one side of the tree.

I use one every time I work with a crane on big removals. It provides more options working with the saw to send big pieces out. The ounces it adds are irrelevant.


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 5, 2020)

I like them because they give me twice as many options when felling.


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## MustangMike (Feb 5, 2020)

They make a lot of sense for felling, but I mostly do bucking and limbing, and the trees I fell are not usually that large, so sometimes I will just use the top of the bar for the back cut, etc.

I do own a wrap handle for a 660, and may install it sometime, but I think it may also get in the way if I'm milling.

The reason they make different saws with different options is so we can all choose what works for us.

If I did a lot of felling of large trees, I'm sure I would have one.


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## Thomas Lilli (Feb 6, 2020)

MustangMike said:


> They are similar in a lot of ways, but the 461 is a quad port and the lower transfer feeds from the front (not the sides), so the cylinder bolt pattern is longer.
> 
> 3 of the 4 starter recoil bolts will line up, and you can swap em, but they are not the same. Also, the decomp on a 461 is not in the center, and they have 3 bolt / limited RPM coils. (but you can swap coils and they run just fine).
> 
> ...


Mike,
Would the 046 have an exhaust stratified charge vs an intake stratified charge found on the newer saws?


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## DND 9000 (Feb 6, 2020)

No the 046 is a traditional 2 stroke engine without any scavening technology. The first stratified scavening engine from Stihl was the MS 441 in 2006.


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## Skeans (Feb 6, 2020)

MustangMike said:


> They make a lot of sense for felling, but I mostly do bucking and limbing, and the trees I fell are not usually that large, so sometimes I will just use the top of the bar for the back cut, etc.
> 
> I do own a wrap handle for a 660, and may install it sometime, but I think it may also get in the way if I'm milling.
> 
> ...



Even limbing and bucking it allows you to have hand positions that may not be possible to safely be out of the way, when limbing you can flip the power head side to side without having to leave the tree.


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## Radu88 (Nov 9, 2020)

Can the MS-461R be ordered as the powerhead only? My local dealer is pretty clueless so figured i'd try to ask the all knowing internet


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## MustangMike (Nov 10, 2020)

Usually you can order just a power head, B+C are extra (with various choices). However, 461s may currently be limited to stock at the wholesalers, I think the 462 is replacing them.

IMO, the 462 is a real nice saw! Lighter, same power, spring AV, clean air filter tech and M Tronic (you don't need a tuning screwdriver).

I have 2 of them (both ported), but even the stock ones exceed the advertised 6 Hp on the dyno.


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## cary911 (Nov 15, 2020)

MustangMike said:


> Usually you can order just a power head, B+C are extra (with various choices). However, 461s may currently be limited to stock at the wholesalers, I think the 462 is replacing them.
> 
> IMO, the 462 is a real nice saw! Lighter, same power, spring AV, clean air filter tech and M Tronic (you don't need a tuning screwdriver).
> 
> I have 2 of them (both ported), but even the stock ones exceed the advertised 6 Hp on the dyno.



I just bought one! .. It's all I would care to use anymore, that's kinda what started this "Selling Evevrything" post without much thought!!!!


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## cary911 (Nov 15, 2020)

cary911 said:


> I just bought one! .. It's all I would care to use anymore, that's kinda what started this "Selling Evevrything" post without much thought!!!!


That 462 is a hell of a machine btw!


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 16, 2020)

Just some PNW eye candy. The saws that is. Picked up the 500 3 weeks ago at my local dealer 7 minutes away. Was on the shelf with bar and chain mounted next to another 500 PHO . I was there 15 minutes they had a bunch in stock and selling well. The 661 I bought at the famous Madsens an hour away. Can you tell how happy I am with the 500.


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