# Anyone able to convince me to buy a Woodmizer LT10?



## gemniii

I had been set on buying the low end Hud-Son from Harbor Freight at less than $2K (potentially $1.6K w/ coupons) last year. It met my needs and was a "name brand", however by the time I sorted out the comments that it was NOT "cheap chinese cra*" from the truth HF switched to a different mfg.

Now after seeing them in person I know I should have bought the Hud-Son at the HF discount price, but am falling towards the Woodmizer LT10 at $3K on sale.

Anybody else at this decision point?

I figure I need to cut up about 100 10' logs before the saw pays for itself (I'll need the lumber anyway) and I've got the logs, the tractor, etc.

Any advice from someone going thru a similar decision process?


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## ridecaptain

I purchased a new LT 10 in april and am very pleased with it.I have milled approx. 2500 board feet of Longleaf and Slash pine so far.I've built one shed 12 x 16 and am preparing to build a roof over the mill.I figure the mill paid for itself on the first shed,2x floorboards and 3/4"board and batton siding.These materials would cost $3000.00 if purchased at a lumberyard.Woodmizer speaks for itself with a 2 yr. warranty and a 30 day money back guarantee.I would highly recommend any of their products. I believe they sell the most bang for the buck.


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## hamish

You have been trying to make your mind up for quite some time now!!

I went with a Norwood ML26 back in April, after alot of searching and looking, i came down to getting a mill from a well known manufacturer (primarily for support and spares availability if needed), which led me to Woodmizer and Norwood here in Canada. The LT10 up here is for arguements sake 3k ,the LT 15 6k and the ML 26 4K. The LT15 was more money than I wanted to spend as I knew any purchase would end up involving alot on ancillary costs (the extra toys to go along with it). For 4K I got my ML 26 with a 13hp Honda, and some design specs that I saw as a benefit. What pushed me away from the LT10 was the engine choices, 7hp clone engine or a 10hp Briggs, that was my biggest deciding factor. Regardless of my choices and decisions.......................Get an LT10! It will be the most fun you have had since the days when you first met your current wife or girlfriend.................but you will always have the mill and it wont be a pain in your backside most of the time, just your lower back till you have a log deck and bring the rails up to a workable height!

Oh yeah why I bought mine.....................I quit smoking and wanted to get myself something as a reward...........the one thing I didn't have.......a mill and that was from Feb 2011 till April........and I wont' start smoking again cuz I gotta pay for this Mill! September 2011 it will be almost 1/2 paid for the original expenditure, so just a drop in the sand. Now I think about milling 24/7........my CSM is parked (but ready) spending time learning and trying new things to see what works best for me.............the number one thing I have learned thus far, take your time and understand why things happen, and number two if you dont sharpen your own bands refer to number 1 as the set is so messed up after sending them out to be resharped. Postal service/ups/fedex light box football!


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## tomsteve

i think you should go for at least an lt40. and even an lt70!!:jester:


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## willbarryrec

*Do it!*

:msp_biggrin:
:hmm3grin2orange: 
And then PM me were you are in Va and maybe I can give you a hand moving logs around sometime!


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## gemniii

willbarryrec said:


> :msp_biggrin:
> :hmm3grin2orange:
> And then PM me were you are in Va and maybe I can give you a hand moving logs around sometime!


I'll either have the mill in NE Mississippi (about 300 acres of trees) or Vermont (about 30 acres of trees), I've only got about 3/4 acres in Virginia

tomsteve - I was also leaning to an LT28, but I'm growing and sawing for personal consumption, not profit. I retire tomorrow after 37 yrs w/ the Army as a soldier and civilian, hopefully my retiree pay will support me. I've already designated one 30x20 workshop as tractor/sawyer shed. In the back of my mind is to move the LT10 to Vermont for summer vacations and get an LT40 hydro for Mississippi. But SWMBO views (and rightfully so) $3k as OK and $27K as NO WAY.

hamish - Yes, I sits and thinks a long time, plus I don't really have the room for it in Virginia. The place I'm buying in Mississippi has 4 shops with about 5,000 to 6,000 sq ft, covered on concrete, with doors and electricity, and I'm wrangling to pick up a surrounding 73 acre parcel with about 25 acres of 15 to 20 year old pine that needs thinning. Most of my other lots are about a half hour away.
One of the forcing factors in my decision is being able to create narrow trails (to narrow for a truck, wide enough for my tractor (Kubota B7610, 5' wide)). And I want to be able to carry the mill on my 3pt pallet forks. The LT10 is at the limit of what I can carry. And MOST of my trees in Mississippi are under 24". If I carry it up to Vermont I'm going to have to do a bunch of CSM to get the cant size down. But I love the smell of 2stroke in the morning.

ridecaptain - Glad to here of your experience. The only bad thing I've heard about Woodmizer LT10's is along the lines "I wish I had bought one sooner", even though it was $4,000 when they introduced it.

Now - how many blades, and extensions?


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## ridecaptain

I purchased 1 extra bed extension,this allows me to cut 16'.and purchased 5 blades,the mill comes with 1. I am on my third blade now, Nails shortened the life of first 2,you may want to consider a metal detector. You also may want to consider a sharpener and a setter,check out (precision sharpener) I built my own setter and have been using a 4-1/2" grinder freehand to sharpenso far with fairly good results. I will either purchase a precision sharpener or build one in future,havn't decided yet.Watch the Youtube videos on precision sharpeners,very poorly narrated and boring,but very informative.


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## hamish

The number of bands and the number of extensions boils down to your ancillary equipment, you dont have a sharpener or setter so you will need more bands than a person that sharpens there own. Never rely on the supply chain unless your are an integral part of that chain, it sucks wanting to mill but have no bands as you are waiting for your sharpened one to come on the next truck, or begin milling and have a mishap and have to forgo a days-weeks milling waiting for bands. I sharpen/set my own bands (sharpening is an art in itself) and have currently 32 bands, 15 new in reserve, 10 set up for softwoods, 5 set up for hardwoods, and 2 training bands (see how many times I can sharpen them, try new things with etc..... Most days milling I use 5-7 bands, then onther days I use 4 in half an hour, and carry on with the other for the rest of the day. Then I have to sharpen the ones I have used at the end of the day or prior to my next days milling........So if I do not keep up with things but intend on milling for five continuous days I need min 30 bands, and a Murphy allowance. Bands are like bullets you can never have to many, and you never know when you are going to need them.

For bed extensions yes we all want to cut that mother of all trees and have a beam thats
14"x36'! In reality unless you have the means to move it your done. I stuck with a 16' bed that allows me to cut a lil over 12'. If you find that the LT10 is at near the Max for lifting on your tractor, long logs and hardwood will tax your equipment even more. Improvise, adapt and overcome, mechanical advantage is your friend, think outside of the box. I can load my mill faster with a piece of rope and a lil walk than I can with my over- engineered 2500lb warn winch set up.


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## qbilder

I bought this mill from a guy on ebay. It was a calculated risk, well thought through before pulling the trigger. It's based on a Linn design & utilizes Linn components. I have been happy as a two peckered puppy. Cuts very true & cut through the center of anything I can possibly handle without getting a large CSM. Does a FULL 30" cut. Still experimenting with different brands & styles of blades. Some cut slow but smooth while some are aggressive & fast. For $5G's it comes with axle & bed extension to mill 16' logs. The 16hp motor has only bogged once on me & that was milling through a twisty, burly hard maple. I welded on some RV jacks that I bought at HF for cheap, all four corners. Makes it EASY for me alone to remove and reinstall the axle. I only remove the axle to mill large, heavy logs. Had it for almost a year now & am really just getting started with it. It hasn't seen it's limits yet & that's not because I haven't tried. Hauled it from northern main Michigan down to southern New Mexico, cruising hundreds of miles at a time at 80mph+. Towed true & smooth.


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## qweesdraw

I bought a used LT 10 a few months ago 2k.
The briggs 7 hp seems a little under powered.
as far as bands-100 board FT and they are spent (of course conditions)
Use alot of water to cool your bands they will stay sharper.
If your a newbie to milling plan on dulling 3 bands quick (just because you gotta learn.)
bands are $18 each about $10 to resharp with shipping both ways.(3x and the bands are spent)
i would get 10 new-when they are dull ,order more-send in the others.(resharp PA?)
I give customer [email protected] woodmizer 5 stars! 
Mark


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## gemniii

qweesdraw said:


> I bought a used LT 10 a few months ago 2k.
> The briggs 7 hp seems a little under powered.
> as far as bands-100 board FT and they are spent (of course conditions)
> Use alot of water to cool your bands they will stay sharper.
> If your a newbie to milling plan on dulling 3 bands quick (just because you gotta learn.)
> bands are $18 each about $10 to resharp with shipping both ways.(3x and the bands are spent)
> i would get 10 new-when they are dull ,order more-send in the others.(resharp PA?)
> I give customer [email protected] woodmizer 5 stars!
> Mark


100 board feet and the band is done? (I'm actually assuming you meant 100 square feet) So on one 24" log I can only go 8 feet and make 6 passes?
Thanks for the input.


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## tomsteve

congradulations on your retirement! THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE FOR OUR FREEDOM!!!!!! my son's an army soldier. got back from "the sand box: july 2nd.just finished his fisrt 6 years he signed up for and re upped for 6 more.


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## qbilder

You should be getting way more than 100bf/blade.


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## SDB777

qbilder said:


> You should be getting way more than 100bf/blade.


 
I'm getting far more then that. 
But all I've been milling is Black Walnut, Osage Orange, and some ERC....



Woodmizer selling a 15 pack of blades. I got a box that size, and when dull I'll send my blades out to be sharpened 7 or 8 at a time. Local fella in Pottsville does them...so I'll keep him in business if I can get some blades dull.






Scott b


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## willbarryrec

gemniii said:


> I'll either have the mill in NE Mississippi (about 300 acres of trees) or Vermont (about 30 acres of trees), I've only got about 3/4 acres in Virginia


 
Oh well,got to go where the land and the trees are . I just have the sawdust itch real bad....

Now that I think about it I remember you posted about some land a while back.

All the best with your retirement and thank you for your service to our country!




(Oh and pics of the mill would be great sometime.)


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## twoclones

gemniii said:


> Now after seeing them in person I know I should have bought the Hud-Son at the HF discount price, but am falling towards the Woodmizer LT10 at $3K on sale.


 
The LT-10 is probably a darned good machine BUT I don't think bed extensions are available for it and sooner or later you're going to want to mill something longer than 11'. I've had my LT-15 for about a year and have already been asked by 3 potential customers, one once needed for myself, to mill 16' boards. 

All I need is to buy a bed extension. You'd need to buy a whole new system!


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## qbilder

SDB777 said:


> I'm getting far more then that.
> But all I've been milling is Black Walnut, Osage Orange, and some ERC....
> 
> 
> 
> Woodmizer selling a 15 pack of blades. I got a box that size, and when dull I'll send my blades out to be sharpened 7 or 8 at a time. Local fella in Pottsville does them...so I'll keep him in business if I can get some blades dull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott b



Yeah, I cut mostly hard maple, usually burled &/or figured and often times dead & dry. I also cut burls of any type, cherry, oaks, walnut, ash, hickory, pecan, mulberry, etc. as it comes. The softest thing I cut would be aspen, and possibly standing dead pine. I'm running WM 7deg. blades right now (not my favorite) & the blade that's on now has thus far cut roughly 500bf of burled hard maple. Got some oak burl & dead dry fig to cut today & unless I hit a rock, i'm confident the blade will last all day. 

I get my logs from up in the mountains here, above 9,000ft. elevation. The hardwoods are few & far between but basically mutated versions of the hardwoods in the Appalachians. They don't grow as fast or nearly as large, and are most often burled or dog legged with good curly figure. Finding straight, clean saw logs is almost impossible. We have one tree here that is a close match to box elder in every aspect except hardness. It only grows high on top of the mountains & is harder than sugar maple, likely the hardest wood in these forests that I have found thus far. Beautiful stuff when figured but hardest on the mill. I cut 300-400bf of it & the blade is done, begging for a swap out. Our version of cherry is also very, very hard like that, and very deep red. But if cutting fresh oak, which is either canyon or gambel oak, I cut all day long on a blade. If I were only getting 100bf/blade, i'd get a circle mill.


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## gemniii

twoclones said:


> The LT-10 is probably a darned good machine BUT I don't think bed extensions are available for it and sooner or later you're going to want to mill something longer than 11'. I've had my LT-15 for about a year and have already been asked by 3 potential customers, one once needed for myself, to mill 16' boards.
> 
> All I need is to buy a bed extension. You'd need to buy a whole new system!


7' bed extensions are [email protected]


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## TraditionalTool

hamish said:


> i came down to getting a mill from a well known manufacturer (primarily for support and spares availability if needed), which led me to Woodmizer and Norwood here in Canada.


I bought a used Norwood Lumbermate 2000 and I found Norwood to be less than stellar in the customer service and support arena. They seem more worried about going out of business then they are about taking care of existing customers, IMO.

Woodmizer, OTOH, is more than willing to help anyone, even those that do not own their mills.

This is not to say that Norwood doesn't have a decent product, I think they do...just that I'm not sure I could rely on them to supply parts in the event something breaks. Fortunately they are mostly common parts.


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## hamish

TraditionalTool said:


> I bought a used Norwood Lumbermate 2000 and I found Norwood to be less than stellar in the customer service and support arena. They seem more worried about going out of business then they are about taking care of existing customers, IMO.
> 
> Woodmizer, OTOH, is more than willing to help anyone, even those that do not own their mills.
> 
> This is not to say that Norwood doesn't have a decent product, I think they do...just that I'm not sure I could rely on them to supply parts in the event something breaks. Fortunately they are mostly common parts.


 
I somewhat argee, so for parts they should be more than willing to deal with the new owner of the mill, so long as the ownership has been transfered (just a pre-cautionary act on there part to try and save another Morewood incident). I bought my Norwood ML26 new and a Norwood sharpener used, had one hell of a time trying to get a manual for my sharpener, Norwood finally co-operated and sent me a partial manual from the LM24 owners manual, when I asked "when people buy a brandnew sharpener from you do they not get a manual with it???...........well they couldn't find one on the computer...................kind of pisses me off when i read the manual and it says to refer to the section I don't have!
Regardless it is a good product, Woodmizer here in Canada is good to an extent but its really bad when I can buy Woodmizer blades from a re-seller cheaper than I can from woodmizer and no shipping!


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## TraditionalTool

hamish said:


> I somewhat argee, so for parts they should be more than willing to deal with the new owner of the mill, so long as the ownership has been transfered (just a pre-cautionary act on there part to try and save another Morewood incident). I bought my Norwood ML26 new and a Norwood sharpener used, had one hell of a time trying to get a manual for my sharpener, Norwood finally co-operated and sent me a partial manual from the LM24 owners manual, when I asked "when people buy a brandnew sharpener from you do they not get a manual with it???...........well they couldn't find one on the computer...................kind of pisses me off when i read the manual and it says to refer to the section I don't have!
> Regardless it is a good product, Woodmizer here in Canada is good to an extent but its really bad when I can buy Woodmizer blades from a re-seller cheaper than I can from woodmizer and no shipping!


hamish,

I have a similar but different experience. I bought a used LumberMate 2000, but it doesn't have the original bed, it has a custom 30' bed with it. I don't care for the dog system the previous owner had put on it, so I inquired to buy the new style clamps on the ML34. The response is that they will not sell those until they sell more new mills, but at this time they will not sell them. WTF??? A part is a part, right?

Woodmizer, OTOH, would sell their clamps to me even though I don't own one of their mills.

In a similar vein, a friend of mine bought two used Cooks sharpeners, and called to get the cams from them for the Woodmizer blades. Tim Cook got on the phone and told him he wouldn't sell them to him as he bought them used. While I have a couple dozen Cooks Super Sharps I use on my Norwood, I will be buying other blades when the time arises.

I hope all of these short sighted dealers go under in the current economy. This is not a good way to treat customers, period.


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## hamish

TraditionalTool said:


> hamish,
> 
> I have a similar but different experience. I bought a used LumberMate 2000, but it doesn't have the original bed, it has a custom 30' bed with it. I don't care for the dog system the previous owner had put on it, so I inquired to buy the new style clamps on the ML34. The response is that they will not sell those until they sell more new mills, but at this time they will not sell them. WTF??? A part is a part, right?
> 
> Woodmizer, OTOH, would sell their clamps to me even though I don't own one of their mills.
> 
> In a similar vein, a friend of mine bought two used Cooks sharpeners, and called to get the cams from them for the Woodmizer blades. Tim Cook got on the phone and told him he wouldn't sell them to him as he bought them used. While I have a couple dozen Cooks Super Sharps I use on my Norwood, I will be buying other blades when the time arises.
> 
> I hope all of these short sighted dealers go under in the current economy. This is not a good way to treat customers, period.



As for Norwood the ML34 and ML26's are virgin mills, not too many out in the real world yet, I'm in the lower 300's as for serial number........are there things to be resolved or changed, surely there are, am I gonna whine about all the likes and dislikes, no, I just adapted things so they suit me. The cam lock dogs for the ML34 are not designed to work on the LM2000 is there saying, BS I have seen and used them on a MK3, all one has to do is make a few changes to the mount, and poof it works. Some companies have forgotten there is a difference between sales people and order takers, and to be effective today both are required.
A company saying I don't know if it will work, your gonna get charged regular price for it, then contacts me later to find out if it worked......................works for me, not the one that wont sell me a shiney thing-a-me-bob because I want one.

And YES i want an LT10 but with a Honda powerplant (not trying to sidetrack this thread).

Jeremy


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## twoclones

gemniii said:


> 7' bed extensions are [email protected]


 
I see I was in error.


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## TraditionalTool

hamish said:


> The cam lock dogs for the ML34 are not designed to work on the LM2000 is there saying, BS I have seen and used them on a MK3, all one has to do is make a few changes to the mount, and poof it works.


 Jeremy,

The thing is my bed is more similar to the MX-34, in that it has a square cross member instead of a round tube for the dog to slide on, so the newer cam would work better on mine.

Of course Norwood told me that since I don't have the original bed, they can't support me either...WTF????

Low sales is what a company like that deserves, I hate to say...


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## gemniii

TraditionalTool said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> The thing is my bed is more similar to the MX-34, in that it has a square cross member instead of a round tube for the dog to slide on, so the newer cam would work better on mine.
> 
> Of course Norwood told me that since I don't have the original bed, they can't support me either...WTF????
> 
> Low sales is what a company like that deserves, I hate to say...


Glad to read that about Norwood.
Surprised SawyerRob hasn't jumped in in defense. From my readings Norwood usually is supporive.


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## TraditionalTool

gemniii said:


> Glad to read that about Norwood.
> Surprised SawyerRob hasn't jumped in in defense. From my readings Norwood usually is supporive.


There is nothing wrong with the product, IMO, and they make a good mill. I am certainly happy with mine that I bought used.

The support issue is separate in itself, and could be isolated, but it is my experience and I provide honest feedback in that regard.


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## hamish

*Long Post*



TraditionalTool said:


> There is nothing wrong with the product, IMO, and they make a good mill. I am certainly happy with mine that I bought used.
> 
> The support issue is separate in itself, and could be isolated, but it is my experience and I provide honest feedback in that regard.


 

They do make a very good product, and like most things it depends upon who you talk to at the company. Before buying my mill I had the chance to check both products out at my local farm show, Woodmiser was outside and was the first place I passed. Was there for bout 20 minutes, looking and figureing out how things worked, all the while an individual in a woodmiser shirt and hat telling me the show deosn't start for another 3 hours. Get inside the building, about the 7 booth I come to...woodmiser, a simple 3 panel display and a few handouts, and two sales people. Get asked if I am interested in milling lumber (my husky hat and sawchips must have been an easy sign)I says yes I am here today to decide on an LT10-15 or a Norwood ML26, and the conversation ended there, even though Woodmiser has a LT15 set up outside with logs ready to go. Even had enough cash in my pocket to buy either 3 I was thinking about. Left a bad taste in my mouth Finally found the Norwood display inside (thankfully there were some good looking women around on the walk as it took some time to find) and I landed upon the ML26. Two representatives, not sales people, actual mill owners, neither technically inclined for the stuff I was going to ask (but hey we all have different backgrounds), I asked a question about band tension adjustment and how often they needed to be made the one man said he has never had to adjust it! Thankfully the other guy overheard my question and said at least everytime I change a band. I spent about an hour looking over and touching everyinch if the ml26 and mx34, took pictures for memory of the attributes of both models and how they could be intertwined. 
Neither company was too involved or informative about there product, just kinda there with "this is it if ya want it call this number type of attitude, I dont want a snake oil salesman but when somebody offers to buy the mill right there on the spot...............you might have an interested consumer.

On a side note................I almost bought a grain elevator.......dont do grain, or have a silo, or anything to power it, but she was the most beautiful redhead I have ever seen in my life!

Any mill owner be it Norwood, Woodmiser, Hudson, or Homemade (sorry not alot of them you can get easily up here), have been the nicest, truest people out there, regardless of brand, and are more than willing to help one out with the issues they encounter.

At my saw shop a simple conversation about a 365 husky and the customer mentioned he had a mill, I was planning to buy a mill, word got out I have 4 new local milling friends and about 20 new customers. We have all made eachother more productive, efficent and informed, not via the internet but by face to face/mill to mill interaction, there is a wealth of knowledge around every corner.


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## gemniii

*to close out*

Well just to wrap up - 
Went down to Mississippi and bought the house and 3.5 acres, started the process to buy another 73 acres around it. This had about 25 acres of 15 yr old pine that needs thinning. I started thinking LT 15 or LT 28
Yesterday I bought the Woodmizer LT10, 10hp w/ 1 extension and 15 blades, plan to take delivery in November in Mississippi.
Today I found out the 73 acres is encumbered by a timber company with rights to clear cut the remaining 25 acres by December 2012.
Oh well, that just leaves me my other 380 acres to piddle around on.


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## hamish

Glad to hear you took the plunge!


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## TraditionalTool

gemniii said:


> Today I found out the 73 acres is encumbered by a timber company with rights to clear cut the remaining 25 acres by December 2012.


OUCH...did you buy it even with that condition?


gemniii said:


> Oh well, that just leaves me my other 380 acres to piddle around on.


That's a LOT of acres, hope it's got some decent weather...I hear MS is pretty darn humid...:msp_rolleyes:

Congrats on your new purchase, I'm sure you'll enjoy it when you get it. Wood is wood, humid or not...


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## gemniii

TraditionalTool said:


> OUCH...did you buy it even with that condition?
> 
> That's a LOT of acres, hope it's got some decent weather...I hear MS is pretty darn humid...:msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Congrats on your new purchase, I'm sure you'll enjoy it when you get it. Wood is wood, humid or not...


Yea, we plan on buying it, it "surrounds" the house lot, there's plenty of deer on it. And it has 1200 ft of paved road frontage on the south end and 1200 ft of national forest frontage on the north end. Then there's another 140 acres adjacent to it, which could put me at the 640 acres I set as a goal


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## gemniii

gemniii said:


> Oh well, that just leaves me my other 380 acres to piddle around on.



Just to correct my mistake, my wife, the real estate attorney, had given me the 380 acre figure. Actually it's only 280 acres, so now I've got much further to go to my square mile. She had "mis-added" and I had thought she had put in the 1/3 of some family land.


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## thechknhwk

gemniii said:


> Just to correct my mistake, my wife, the real estate attorney, had given me the 380 acre figure. Actually it's only 280 acres, so now I've got much further to go to my square mile. She had "mis-added" and I had thought she had put in the 1/3 of some family land.


 
But STILL........280 acres! That's what I call land Baron! I'm praying for a 40


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## gemniii

thechknhwk said:


> But STILL........280 acres! That's what I call land Baron! I'm praying for a 40


 
That's in Mississippi, and not counting about 1/3 of 200 acres of "family land".

Just keep your head in the skies, your nose to the grindstone and save every penny until the right bargain pops up.

I bought my first 73 acres in Vermont right after I got out of the Army (enlisted E4) in 1978 with what we had saved from unused leave. I became addicted. Most of the guys and gals I knew would buy trucks and cars when they got out, and we all know how they go up in value.

And it's not for me, it's for my children.


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## TraditionalTool

gemniii said:


> That's in Mississippi, and not counting about 1/3 of 200 acres of "family land".
> 
> Just keep your head in the skies, your nose to the grindstone and save every penny until the right bargain pops up.
> 
> I bought my first 73 acres in Vermont right after I got out of the Army (enlisted E4) in 1978 with what we had saved from unused leave. I became addicted. Most of the guys and gals I knew would buy trucks and cars when they got out, and we all know how they go up in value.
> 
> And it's not for me, it's for my children.


Well, real estate isn't exactly booming at the moment...few folks building.

Curious though gemnii, but how does a guy that has so much acreage end up being so cheap on the sawmill? :bang: I don't get it...



twoclones said:


> The LT-10 is probably a darned good machine BUT I don't think bed extensions are available for it and sooner or later you're going to want to mill something longer than 11'. I've had my LT-15 for about a year and have already been asked by 3 potential customers, one once needed for myself, to mill 16' boards.
> 
> All I need is to buy a bed extension. You'd need to buy a whole new system!


I think twoclones was suggesting similar, and I think you should consider it, gemnii...:rolleyes2:


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## hamish

TraditionalTool said:


> Well, real estate isn't exactly booming at the moment...few folks building.
> 
> Curious though gemnii, but how does a guy that has so much acreage end up being so cheap on the sawmill? :bang: I don't get it...
> 
> 
> I think twoclones was suggesting similar, and I think you should consider it, gemnii...:rolleyes2:



I do not know how it works in the US or in individual states but acreage here per say, the value is solely dependant upon location, and regardless the prices both north and south are over-inflated.
Somewhat the same as Gemniii but in reverse, I bought 50 acres when I was 18 ( a year after joining the army, I joined the year prior at 17, circa 1992 when I bought the land). Only 50 acres, but prime hunting ground and just a nice lot. Cost me alot at that time, hell and alot in todays money, Whats is worth near nothing to anybody thats willing to buy it 20 years later, but as the cities move westward.........hopefully my son will have a retirement nest egg because of it.

Near where I grew up, a small town kept getting bigger, a local farmer that paid crap wages, had junk and was just hell to work for (not to mention the lunches were pitiful) sold half his farm 4 years ago, he became an instant millionaire, ruined the man, all in the name of supposid (sp??) progess.

Nothing wrong with an LT10, be it for good or as a stepping stone, if anybody wants to part there LT10 beside my ML26 and try em both out, lets have at er, the end of the day will tell all, sawdust is in our veins.


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## TraditionalTool

hamish said:


> I do not know how it works in the US or in individual states but acreage here per say, the value is solely dependant upon location, and regardless the prices both north and south are over-inflated.


Yep, works pretty much the same here in the lower 48...and certainly Mississippi is nothing like buying property in California, but there is some acreage when you get into the boonies and that is not as usable that is more reasonably priced in CA. I guess I just got a bit of humor how gemnii was dropping acreage numbers around like buzzwords, when at the same time interested in the bottom of the line sawmill that WoodMizer offers. Of course he mentioned some of it has been strip milled and it sounded like there is still a good amount that can be strip milled by a company, it is still a decent amount of acreage. I suspect all that glitters is not gold...:tongue2:


hamish said:


> Somewhat the same as Gemniii but in reverse, I bought 50 acres when I was 18 ( a year after joining the army, I joined the year prior at 17, circa 1992 when I bought the land). Only 50 acres, but prime hunting ground and just a nice lot. Cost me alot at that time, hell and alot in todays money, Whats is worth near nothing to anybody thats willing to buy it 20 years later, but as the cities move westward.........hopefully my son will have a retirement nest egg because of it.


I wasn't so wise to buy acreage, but was wise enough to buy my first house when I was about 23 years old...owned that for about 15 years, sold it at a low, and it seemed I didn't make out very well as I invested as much as profit I made on it after remodeling the backyard/pool. I took that money and bought a house in Silicon Valley, and luckily it has tripled in price over the past 15 years, where we have some of the most expensive property in the U.S. and it it still holding it's own. Life is a roller coaster, nobody wins without taking a risk...I remember buying my second house, more than twice what I paid for my first, I was scared...still am in some ways, but it's made me quite a bit of equity by going in debt.

About 5 years laterI bought a piece of lake property just shy of 2 acres that I plan to put my log home on. I own the property outright, and the logs and equipment are paid for. I have planned and continue to work at building this with as little debt as I can.


hamish said:


> Nothing wrong with an LT10, be it for good or as a stepping stone, if anybody wants to part there LT10 beside my ML26 and try em both out, lets have at er, the end of the day will tell all, sawdust is in our veins.


It's not that it's a bad mill, but it's the bottom of the line WoodMizer. With a lot of acreage I think it makes more sense to get a larger mill, with a more powerful engine. I have a 23HP engine on my Norwood, and I know there have already been times when I wish I had more power. The savings in time alone could be a huge advantage if your milling a lot of timber. Milling on some of the smaller mills can be painful, if you plan to do it a lot, stuff like auto-feed would be nice, and hydraulics is way nicer than wasting your back. But a tractor can do, certainly, it's just more difficult. I drool at those setup with the hydraulics that can turn the logs...that is some slick stuff...;-)

For what gemnii has said, I would think a WoodMizer LT28 should be a consideration for him, or some other stable type portable. The LT10 could be moved in a pickup, as the LT15 could as well. The LT15 has a larger motor option as I recall. The time spent milling can be cut way down with a larger engine, IMO. LT28 is a better towing unit, and LT40 adds hydraulics. There are other options also, don't limit yourself to only WoodMizer.

All that said, I always encourage folks to follow B.Allan Mackie, that is to go the owner-built route and not put yourself in debt, and there are various ways to do it. I am trying to build a 2nd place debt free. I wish I had of done it for my first. However, a sawmill is so valuable in doing this, it pays to invest more in it as you can cut timbers, dimensional lumber (2x4, 2x6, 2x8), flooring, decking, siding, interior even with simple board/batten. Don't cheap out on this tool, it can pay for itself over and over...


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## gemniii

TraditionalTool said:


> Yep, works pretty much the same here in the lower 48...and certainly Mississippi is nothing like buying property in California, but there is some acreage when you get into the boonies and that is not as usable that is more reasonably priced in CA. I guess I just got a bit of humor how gemnii was dropping acreage numbers around like buzzwords, when at the same time interested in the bottom of the line sawmill that WoodMizer offers.
> <snip>
> 
> It's not that it's a bad mill, but it's the bottom of the line WoodMizer. With a lot of acreage I think it makes more sense to get a larger mill, with a more powerful engine.<snip>



My MAIN purpose all along has been to retire and own a square mile that paid for itself. The primary reason I got into CSM and BSM is that I want to maintain deer plots, watering ponds and firing lanes. Which requires cutting of trees. Also, because of environmental concerns a lot of "clear cut timberland" leaves stands bordering streams. I could have planned to do what so many others in the area do, just cut the trees down to make food plots and lanes and let the trees rot. 

I also want to limit access to ATV's at the widest. I've got one parcel where the 4WD crowd gets in, parties and makes the deepest ruts in the roads, which then makes them impassable to my tractor.
Thus my plan all along was a small prime mover (started wanting a skid-steer, got convinced to get a TLB) a small milling capability, and trucking it all down to where the wood was and cutting the lumber on site to build strucures on site. All the while maintaining trails a truck could not go down.

My plans (and I expect flames if I'm completely off) are:
Go in and cut the trees for trails, ponds and food plots
Carry the LT10 on the back of my tractor on a pallet, set up, cut the lumber
Build some nice deer stands, dry off sheds, etc.
Carry any excess lumber out. 
All without making a larger trail than my Kubota B7610 (about 5' wide)

For my purposes I could not see the sense in attempting to drag (or yard) trees (almost all <24" DBH) up to half a mile to load them on a trailer to take them to a lumberyard.

And an extension is a great idea:


gemniii said:


> Well just to wrap up -
> <snip>
> Yesterday I bought the Woodmizer LT10, 10hp w/ 1 extension and 15 blades,<snip>



That's why I bought one.

Most of my compatriots in the retirement crowd are puttering around the house or the golf course. I proved to myself in the last two years I can still climb and cut trees.


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## TraditionalTool

gemniii said:


> For my purposes I could not see the sense in attempting to drag (or yard) trees (almost all <24" DBH) up to half a mile to load them on a trailer to take them to a lumberyard.


Wait until you tear down and setup that sawmill a few times, you might be giving a second thought to skidding the logs out and having the sawmill all setup to do the work. That is not like a portable mill in the sense that when you move it you will still need to setup and calibrate most likely. Maybe setting it up on a trailer will work. You'll need to be patient with that 10HP engine, for certain, if you have 24" DBH logs. Best of luck to 'ya!


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## Sawyer Rob

gemniii said:


> For my purposes I could not see the sense in attempting to drag (or yard) trees (almost all <24" DBH) up to half a mile to load them on a trailer to take them to a lumberyard.



Why would you drag a log?? That's why they invented log arches! You have a 7610 that should be just fine ahead of a good arch, and i'd MUCH prefer to use an arch than keep setting up any mill.

If you do much milling at all, you are going to wish you spend a LITTLE more and got a much BETTER mill for bigger logs.

Rob


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## hamish

The LT10 is a near perfect set up for disassembling and taking it to the logs, two bolts per fame section, esily removeable head, one could re-assemble and be up and cutting in next to no time at all (bolt the rail sections to each other, level, mount mill head.......enjoy a cold drink).


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## gemniii

Sawyer Rob said:


> Why would you drag a log?? That's why they invented log arches! You have a 7610 that should be just fine ahead of a good arch, and i'd MUCH prefer to use an arch than keep setting up any mill.
> 
> If you do much milling at all, you are going to wish you spend a LITTLE more and got a much BETTER mill for bigger logs.
> 
> Rob


I should have used the word transport, because to me even using a log arch or trailer I'm still dragging something behind me.
Most of my land is hilly, with the roads on the ridges and my lots seem to end in the valley. I want to build trails, food plots and watering ponds. Most of the water is downhill and the trails will be on the order of half a mile or more long, ending at the low spots. 

Based on videos, web search, and talking to the Woodmizer sales when I got a hands on the LT10, setting up requires putting down a good level base (some 6x6's), putting down the rails, and putting the head unit on the frame. I plan on doing that about 10 times over the next couple of years. It did not look complicated or time-consuming.

I want to use most of the wood on site, for things from posts to sheds, and don't see the need to carry the trees a half mile out up hill, mill them, and carry them back in. I probably will use some form of log arch or yarding system around the site where I set up to mill the trees.

As far as


> spend a LITTLE more and got a much BETTER mill for bigger logs


 I've got a pair of 660's to make bigger logs into smaller logs. And your capitilization of "little" makes me wonder what you think "little" is. The on sale Woodmizer LT10 (10HP) came in at about $3.2K, is there something else NEW within 10% of that price, pretty much fully assembled, with warranty? 20%? Yet as light as the LT10? I thought the Norwood ML26 was up at about $4K.
One of my limiting factors, as I've mentioned, is weight, I'm shooting for a limit of around 500lbs. Larger mills weigh more.


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## TraditionalTool

gemniii said:


> Based on videos, web search, and talking to the Woodmizer sales when I got a hands on the LT10


There 'ya go! The answers are out there. :msp_rolleyes:

I'm sure you did your homework, and hopefully your mill works out great.

The LT10 will work for you, I'm sure of that. However, Rob has done a fair amount of milling, I believe more than me. Even I tried to offer similar advice. A little more mill goes a long way.


gemniii said:


> I want to use most of the wood on site, for things from posts to sheds, and don't see the need to carry the trees a half mile out up hill, mill them, and carry them back in. I probably will use some form of log arch or yarding system around the site where I set up to mill the trees.


Why not just setup once and get an area on your property setup for milling. Where you could have a deck, and mill them. If you really do plan to use the wood for sheds and/or buildings, some of the wood might need more processing. You might consider setting up one specific area, where you could have a deck with the logs to be milled, with the mill setup for easy access with the tractor, and where you can easily take that and stack itl A setup like that will greatly increase your productivity, IMO. You'll need to store the wood as you mill it, also, unless you leave it stacked around your property.


gemniii said:


> And your capitilization of "little" makes me wonder what you think "little" is.


I can't speak for Rob, but knowing now that you learned all about saw milling in about 2 days on the Internet, along with talking to WoodMizer sales, I feel like I wasn't giving you the benefit of the doubt. Your a sharp guy! The rest of us need to learn the honest way, by doing it. Please do post pics when you start felling and milling up your timber. I know I'm anxious to see! :msp_thumbup:


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## gemniii

TraditionalTool said:


> <snip>
> Why not just setup once and get an area on your property setup for milling. Where you could have a deck, and mill them. If you really do plan to use the wood for sheds and/or buildings, some of the wood might need more processing. You might consider setting up one specific area, where you could have a deck with the logs to be milled, with the mill setup for easy access with the tractor, and where you can easily take that and stack itl A setup like that will greatly increase your productivity, IMO. You'll need to store the wood as you mill it, also, unless you leave it stacked around your property.
> <snip>


Well


> Why not just setup once


I plan on trying to be a 1 man operation building with "green" lumber. I'll have 1 trailer, 1 tractor, 1 truck, 1 mill.
Right now I've got 7 separate parcels in Mississippi, and I plan on getting more. Although I like seat time the process of:
transporting logs up the hills with my tractor
loading them onto my trailer
driving them somewhere
offloading
milling
loading the lumber
driving the lumber back to where it was grown
transporting the lumber down to the site 
all involves a lot of transport time versus tree felling and milling. And also with all "transport time" I need to add in fuel at $X/gallon.

It seems simpler to drive the milling machine to the site and set up there. And remember, I do plan to set up about 10 times over the 7 properties and taking years for the whole process. This is not a "get this done by tomorrow". I'm just an old retired guy puttering around in his gardens, it'll be about 400 acres of gardens growing trees, but what the heck.

And I'm trying to keep the process extremely "low impact" on both the environment and my wallet. One site has gullies along a logging road that has some erosion over 6' deep, making these roads impassable. Another site the 4 wheeler trucks have started getting into and have made ditches three foot deep where they were just doing tire spinning.

In the back of my mind is the thought process to eventually have these multipurpose narrow trails leading down to a central spot where I can easily yard down selectively harvested trees. The clearcut process is ok for some monoculture stands of SYP but ruins the environment of a mixed hardwood forest.

As always I enjoy this discussion because you guys have helped me "refine" my plans.


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