# Methods for tying in.



## tree_lawrence (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi All,
My friend and I have started a part time tree service business and are planning to get our arborists licenses to become certified arborists. 

In the mean time we have doing some tree removals, where we have been spur climbing w/lanyard, and use a top rope set in a crotch as a secondary,"safety" measure. The trees so far have had a crotch available still for our top rope after we limb-ed out the spur and topped the trees.

We are looking at a few trees now that we will have to spur climb w/ lanyard and piece down the spur, "tree trunk" but won't have anywhere to tie in our top rope. Is there any way to bring down our top rope and keep it attached to the spur so we have our safety line intact when we piece out the spur, "tree trunk"?

I am new to this website and have read quite a few forums and am looking foward continue learning from everyone here.

Thanks,
Lawrence.


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## Adkpk (Sep 18, 2008)

I've never done this myself but chimed in to see for myself what the pros will say. But what I have seen is wrapping a cambium saver around the spar. 

Welcome to the site!


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## tree_lawrence (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Adapk,
I figured that something like a cabium saver, or a piece of webbing around the spur, then a short piece of climbing line to tie the ends together then clip a carabiner to that, and clip our climbing safety line onto the carabiner. But when we have to move down the spur we have to remove all that, spur down without the safety line then re-attach it all again to cut the next section. So theres that time when we would be without the safety line between sections. this is the time I am uncomfortable with the climb, and am wondering if there is a piece of equiptment designed for this type application where something could easly loosen form the spur, slide down as I spur down, with my safety rope attached to it then, easly tighten back onto the spur.


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 18, 2008)

tree_lawrence said:


> Thanks Adapk,
> I figured that something like a cabium saver, or a piece of webbing around the spur, then a short piece of climbing line to tie the ends together then clip a carabiner to that, and clip our climbing safety line onto the carabiner. But when we have to move down the spur we have to remove all that, spur down without the safety line then re-attach it all again to cut the next section. So theres that time when we would be without the safety line between sections. this is the time I am uncomfortable with the climb, and am wondering if there is a piece of equiptment designed for this type application where something could easly loosen form the spur, slide down as I spur down, with my safety rope attached to it then, easly tighten back onto the spur.



You can tie a running bowline around the spar with your climbing line. Tie some light cordage to the bowline. Pull to release.
Or you can use a rewoven figure 8 to form a loop around the spar, 
Tie the tail as long as you want to rappel and tug on it after you move down and it will release and fall to you.
Take out the slack by moving your hitch up and go again.

Ekka has a vid of the bowline set up on this site or his forum.
Just add the long tale.


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## tree_lawrence (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks, reachtreeserv for the feedback.

One other thing though is that I would like to preseve the climbing line in tact so I could prussic back down if necessary from the top of the spar. 

The top rope is set up such that origenally it is pulled up to a crotch, and over then we are tying in to our harness with a carabiner and clove hitch, and tying back onto the up line with a blakes hitch. (from Tree climbers companion, jeff jebson, dynamic rope setup). This setup has been working well for a secondary system,"safety". It would be nice to preserve this after we get up and remove the crotch and just apply it back onto another tie in system in tact without having to undress our clove hitch and blakes hitch, and so we can still use them as a backup to spurs/lanyard.

Maybe as a secondary rope with a running bowline around the spar with a carabiner an we loop our top rope through the carabiner on that. Or the same with the rewoven figure 8 on a secondary rope.

Also I couldnt find the video on Ekka's forum.

Thanks again,

Lawrence.


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 19, 2008)

A clove hitch is NOT safe for a life support termination knot. Better keep reading and learning for a while with your feet on the ground.


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## tree_lawrence (Sep 19, 2008)

> ddhlakebound : A clove hitch is NOT safe for a life support termination knot



Thats the one that is called out in the tree climbers companion. The clove hitch in that position has one end back up the tree and the other end leading off to the blakes hitch with a figure 8 stopper. It dosent seem that the clove hitch will be a problem there.

Right I willhave to read more, but also test out what i read in the field.

Thanks


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 19, 2008)

tree_lawrence said:


> Thats the one that is called out in the tree climbers companion. The clove hitch in that position has one end back up the tree and the other end leading off to the blakes hitch with a figure 8 stopper. It dosent seem that the clove hitch will be a problem there.
> 
> Right I willhave to read more, but also test out what i read in the field.
> 
> Thanks



Ah, I see.....you're using it on a fixed tail system, so the clove is backed up by your friction hitch. So basically the worst thing that could happen if it slipped is to slide up to the friction hitch. 

I'd never noticed the illustration on pg. 53 using the clove hitch in a fixed tail system. 

I do stand by what I said, as a termination knot the clove isn't good. Check pg. 75 for more explanation.


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 19, 2008)

tree_lawrence said:


> Thanks, reachtreeserv for the feedback.
> 
> One other thing though is that I would like to preseve the climbing line in tact so I could prussic back down if necessary from the top of the spar.
> 
> ...





Here's the link to the vid. Just adapt the rigging to your situation.


http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/palmabseil.wmv

He had another vid that showed the set up better , but the links dead.
This was the link. 

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/lanyardtechniques.wmv


Now both links are dead. Anyway, the 1st one is on his forum still.
It worked for me when I clicked on it from his site.


Use extreme caution when rappelling down a spar on removels.
Many a treeman has forgot about bringing his line down and topped the tree while still attached with his climbing line to the top.

Don't laugh..... it's easier than you think. 
And no, I've never done it.


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## TackleTree (Sep 19, 2008)

I just double wrap my flip line plus have another as well. The bowline works well to. Dont forget to leave a long enough tail as stated earlier, to bring it down to you. Once on the spar I prefer not to have a rope overhead, due to the possibility of being forgetful.. I get hit in the head alot for a living


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## southsoundtree (Sep 20, 2008)

DOUBLE WRAP THE FLIPLINE. For removals, I like to use a steel-core flipline. When the spar (not spur, which is another word for climber/spike/hook) is smaller diameter, especially if it has smooth bark and wet, like alder or maple here in the PNW, I will sometimes wrap it so that it does a 540*, instead of just a 180*, turn. This will cinch around the tree if you spur-out/ kick-out (your spurs slip out of the tree). Most always you will not need to double wrap, but it does give you lots more security and stability in certain situations.

SHARP SPURS Always keep your spurs PROPERLY sharpened. Dull spurs from walking around on the ground, are a hazard. Also, watch out for them barking-up, collecting bark between the spike and the stirrrup, which will prevent them from penetrating as deeply.


RUNNING BOWLINE AND GRIGRI AS BACK-UP TO THE FLIPLINE/ WORK POSITIONING LANYARD WPL FOR CHUNKING/ BLOCKING DOWN TRUNK WOOD I use a running bowline around the spar with a GriGri attached to my bridge or center D-ring. This GriGri is something that I already have, which costs around twice as much as a Beeline eye-and-eye friction hitch cord, but will not wear out, nor overheat and glaze. Most climbers use friction hitches, which I do as well, but a GriGri is something that I find useful for Single Rope Technique SRT and Doubled Rope Technique DdRT. It is easy to release under load, and easy to check to see that it has the rope oriented the proper direction (rope bag end/ tail of the rope/standing end goes with the hand icon stamped on the GriGri, and the working end which would go to the running bowline gets the climber icon). 

This system always has a second attachment point for while you are running a saw (the running bowline is below the flipline). 
If I am using a rigging rope to pull the spar over from the bottom, I will tie it with a running bowline around the spar about a foot or two below the top, with the knot on the opposite side of the falling lane/ direction, flip it over the top of the spar and lower off with the GriGri, on the falling lane side of the tree. When you pull it over, the knot will not be buried under the spar, and it will be able to be untied. VERY IMPORTANT, give yourself some space from the top when you set your running bowline, and cinch it tightly, and make sure the knot is TIED DRESSED and SET TDS. When you run it over the top of the spar, it will be pulled upward by your force downward on the other side. 
You can also just accept that it will be buried if you choose to lower out on the falling lane side of the tree. THIS IS SRT, SO CERTAIN FRICTION HITCHES THAT ONLY WORK FOR DdRT, WILL NOT HOLD YOUR ENTIRE WEIGHT.

As the rigging line may have been damaged by logs falling on it, etc, always check it. I keep my flipline loose around the spar and walk my way down while lowering (not climbing down), sort of, in the event that there is unknown damage to rigging rope and a failure, I have a backup. 

I don't worry much about lowering out on my climbline without the flipline, though I watch for puffs/ picks/ cuts in the climbline as I lower down.



RING-AND-RING FRICTION SAVER WITH PRUSSIK-AND-RING, FOR FLIPPING LOGS FROM THE TRUNK An alternative system is to use a ring-and-ring friction saver FS strap (not a cambium saver leather sleeve) with the prussik-and-ring that allows you to adjust the distance between the rings. I have the longest, maybe 72" strap with the prussik. 
If you wrap the FS around the tree and adjust the prussik-and-ring such that the rings stay about 6" apart and use a DdRT, and have not left stubs from limbs, you can lower off of a limbless spar however far you want, to where you can SAFELY flip off logs. This is more advanced than chunking down with snap-cuts. A pull rope can help. BE SURE YOU CAN CUT YOUR FACE CUTS ACCURATELY ON THE GROUND BEFORE FLIPPING LOGS. YOU MAY WANT WEDGES OR A PULL ROPE ON THE TOP OF THE LOG. THEY MAY BOUNCE A LONG DISTANCE IF THEY DON'T LAND FLAT. 
You can lower down, say 10', from the FS, put your weight on the spurs and flipline, double check that your snaps/ 'biners are secure, then put slack in your climbline and shake your FS down to you. Adjust that 20' of rope though your friction hitch/ GriGri, so you have a second tie-in, then cut your next log.

The DdRT with the FS, or the running bowline and GriGri, allows an immediate exit, single-handedly, in the event of an injury or hornets, etc. If you cut your arm/ let open, you will not be spiking down the tree very well, or very fast. You could bleed out before you can do anything to get to the ground. If a hidden hornets' nest is disturbed, you will be hard pressed to spike down safely while being assaulted by a hundred angry hornets. This single handed, pre-set emergency exit line is important, IMO.

A blood stopper kit could be a lifesaver as well. They're about $20 and can be carried on your harness. Hopefully, all it will ever do is sit there, nice and bright, with its First Aid Cross symbol on it, making you look like a prepared professional, never to be used.


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## clearance (Sep 20, 2008)

I just run up the tree, strip and chunk, with a rope coiled and hanging from my saddle in case I need it. I use my steelcore alone (totally allowed here in the regs). If I need come come down or go to another tree, I tie in with a tautline hitch, tied to a rope snap that goes to my D-rings.

This method works very well, on most removals the rope stays coiled up, no sense getting branches on it, what a pain that can be. The great majority of trees I climb, I cut down, If I saw a better way I would use it.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 20, 2008)

I flipline back down the spar as I am throwing logs. Once you are in position you don't have to worry about cutting yourself down if you forget the high tie in point. I have my climbing line tied loosely by my feet and use my flipline. Just drop down and cut, drop down and cut, repeat, no ropes to change and you won't fall off in the case of spar whip after a big cut. As mention you can wrap your flipline around the spar for more security, if you're in for a big whip. 

If you are climbing out on other limbs off the spar then a friction saver wrapped around the spar is a good idea.


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## tomtrees58 (Sep 20, 2008)

ddhlakebound said:


> A clove hitch is NOT safe for a life support termination knot. Better keep reading and learning for a while with your feet on the ground.



good advice clove hitch will kill you tom trees


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## JS Landscaping (Sep 21, 2008)

Has anyone used the adjustable friction saver from Sherril Tree yet? Was looking at it today thinking about getting it as a secondary tie in point, seems pretty easy to use to just shake down the stick once you get back on your spikes and lanyard...


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## md_tree_dood (Sep 22, 2008)

The adjustable friction saver is pretty nice, but not really necessary unless you want to descend from the spar after you've tied off the spar with a tag line. As far as the original question, you can tie a a friction hitch set up as a back up to your flipline, ie if you can setup a tie in point just wrap it around the spar and work both lines as you spike down.


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## tree_lawrence (Sep 24, 2008)

I just want to say thanks to you all for the responses to my question. I have still yet to piece/chunk down a spar, but have a lot of methods and ideas to evaluate to prepare for that time. It seems that preserving my top rope in a dynamic fashion with the blakes hitch may not be plausible to work down the spar with. Will be refering back to this post and evaluating in more detail the methods you all presented here. Thanks again,
Lawrence


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