# Problems with smoke from neighbor's burn pit



## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

I don't know if this is totally appropriate for the forum and if not and it needs to be moved or closed then that's fine. I spend a fair amount of time on this forum and I need to vent on this a little. I run a small auto repair shop and I am thankful that I can leave this problem at work. Apparently I have started a pissing match with our new neighbors. As a person who strives to live the golden rule it pains me deeply to participate in this ridiculous situation.

It would be funny if it wasn't happening to me so I thought I would share the exactly 4 interactions I have had with my neighbors. For your entertainment, in four installments, here is the statement I am preparing for the next time the police are called out. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure there will be a next time.



On or about February 8th 2016 I noticed smoke and a burning rubber odor upon entering the property outside and inside the building. I feared that something in the building or possibly the roof might be on fire. I determined the smoke was coming from the west side of the building where we share a close, adjacent property line. I entered the driveway. I knocked on the door and a middle aged woman answered. I introduced myself and explained that I smelled acrid smoke inside and outside our building next door. I noticed they had a smoldering fire less than 25 feet from our building. I explained that we are a body shop and that we pull fresh air from outside to ventilate the building and exhaust it through expensive filters according to EPA and OSHA regulations. Furthermore when I smelled smoke while painting a car in our paint booth I shut it down immediately for fear of a fire in the ventilation system. I requested that she ceased burning anywhere near our building especially during business hours.

Her immediate reaction was surprising and hostile. She told me to “get my fat ass off her property or she would call the cops” furthermore that she would do whatever she pleased on her property and there was nothing I could do about it. She then accused me of throwing trash on her property which is completely untrue. I explained that I was going to walk along the property line to make sure there was no damage to our building and that I intended to extinguish the fire. I found evidence of partially burnt tires as well as bottles and cans. Shortly after this a slightly younger man came out. I again introduced myself. I apologized for getting off on the wrong foot with the woman and explained my concerns. He seemed to understand what I was saying. He helped me to extinguish the fire and we left on what I felt to be a positive note.


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## farmer steve (Apr 23, 2016)

BURNING TIRES? we all know that's a no-no. (unless it's in an EPA approved OWB ) don't call the cops. call your DEP/EPA people.


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## Nine6Teen (Apr 23, 2016)

your local city, or county may have outdoor burning regulations.


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 23, 2016)

And be sure to get photos and/or video if possible.


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

Wait, there's more. It gets better. There are pictures and video. I should have taken pictures of the tire fire but I assume that a reasonable request will be honored. I also explained to them at the time that the fire station was 1000' west in clear view and the sheriff's maintenance garage/gas station was 1000' to the east. Furthermore, I was absolutely in no way threatening to turn them in but that they should keep their fires clean and away from my building.


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

Here's a picture of the fire pit long after the great tire fire and here is some of the trash we supposedly threw over the 8' fence. If you're observant there is a toilet, stove, and water heater there. There are also tires. She made the assumption, and I can see how, that we threw the tires on her property. The reality is that about 25 years ago they bulldozed a garage, full of junk, into the ravine and buried it under some fill. I was there when it happened.


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

On March 23rd 2016 at approximately 2:00pm I noticed a strong smoke odor in the paint booth. I immediately shut the booth off and checked the air intake. While standing behind my side of the fence on the property line I saw the woman from before burning trash, paper, and brush. She seemed intoxicated and was holding a large beer. Two young children were present. She told me to to “get my fat ****ing hillbilly ass off her property if she ever saw me near her property she was going to shoot my fat ass with a paintball gun just to watch me run” She claimed that where I was standing was actually her property and that she was sick of us throwing trash on her property and that we needed to move our fence. I did not respond but went inside and called the Sheriff. An officer responded and I explained what was going on. I told him that I did not want to make problems for anyone or file any kind of charges. I just want them to stop burning near my building. I also explained that we have never thrown trash on the property. The junk is the result of a garage and all its contents being bulldozed into the ravine 25 years ago without a permit. It was buried under a little bit of fill and has gradually been surfacing over the years. No report was filed and I did not get the name of the officer.


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## Joesell (Apr 23, 2016)

I'm not one to ever involve the police on purpose. Having said that, I've had the police involved with me a few times over the years. In my experience, they always seemed very professional. They come, take their opinion of the facts and do they're job to the best of their ability.

I always try to work differences out with people, but sometimes people can't be worked with. This woman seems to be one of those people. On top of that, I'm sure she's breaking some law.

Going against all of my instincts, I would say that your best bet is to get the police involved every time you have to deal with her. I think you'll find its your best bet to cover yourself from false accusations. You might even go 1 step further and install a camera on that side of the building. At the very least, it'll help your insurance company when she gets drunk and burns your building down.


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## unclemoustache (Apr 23, 2016)

Sorry for your troubles. Interested to see the next installments. Man, is there anything worse than a rotten neighbor?


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

Joesell said:


> I'm not one to ever involve the police on purpose. Having said that, I've had the police involved with me a few times over the years. In my experience, they always seemed very professional. They come, take their opinion of the facts and do they're job to the best of their ability.
> 
> I always try to work differences out with people, but sometimes people can't be worked with. This woman seems to be one of those people. On top of that, I'm sure she's breaking some law.
> 
> Going against all of my instincts, I would say that your best bet is to get the police involved every time you have to deal with her. I think you'll find its your best bet to cover yourself from false accusations. You might even go 1 step further and install a camera on that side of the building. At the very least, it'll help your insurance company when she gets drunk and burns your building down.



This is my thought exactly. I don't give any blame to the officer in this situation. They generally don't get involved with stuff like this. I believe they did it as a courtesy and a favor. We have a relationship with the Sheriff's Department. No influence, but we know them and work on their cars. I am not antagonizing the situation, but any involvement I have with them in the future will either involve the police or a witness and video. I am not looking to cause them any problems. They could crank their music 24/7. They could have a meth lab or a whore house. Shoot, they could be terrorists. As long as they don't burn their trash beside my building everything else is between them and law enforcement.


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

On April 18th 2016 at approximately 6:00pm while trying to finish a job for the day I noticed a thick smoke in the paint booth. I checked the air intake and noticed a pile of burning brush that had recently been cut from our disputed boundary burning in the same spot as before. I did not interact with the neighbor at this time but called the sheriff again. The dispatcher referred me to the fire department who did come out some time later. I did not want to be involved but I did not leave my building in case the fire department needed to talk with me. I stayed with the door open and the lights on. At approximately 8pm a customer saw the door open and stopped by. I explained that we were closed for the night but he could come by tomorrow. As he was pulling out, the woman neighbor ran up to his car. I assume she mistook him for me. She began yelling “You started this **** you hilbilly peckerwood, I will end it. You ****ed with the wrong [person]. I will show you what kind of [person] I am. You will be sorry. I will end it. ****ed with the wrong [person]...” The prospective customer sped away. At this point the neighbor saw me at the door. She continued yelling the same profanity at me as she returned to her house. I debated calling the sheriff again but decided it was best not to antagonize the situation any further. I waited for some time to make sure I was safe. Double checked that the building and all cars were locked, and I left.


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## farmer steve (Apr 23, 2016)

http://www.araqmd.org/sub_open_burning_regulations.html
http://epa.ohio.gov/portals/47/facts/openburn.pdf
http://www.akron.com/akron-ohio-community-news.asp?aID=17135
stuff you might want to look at. i see your location is Akron and this is what i found in that area.


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

I wish I had the presence of mind to record that interaction. I was lost somewhere between fear, disbelief and laughter. I found out later that they were cited for open burning. There is none in Ohio unless you have a permit or you are burning "ranked seasoned firewood"


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## farmer steve (Apr 23, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> On April 18th 2016 at approximately 6:00pm while trying to finish a job for the day I noticed a thick smoke in the paint booth. I checked the air intake and noticed a pile of burning brush that had recently been cut from our disputed boundary burning in the same spot as before. I did not interact with the neighbor at this time but called the sheriff again. The dispatcher referred me to the fire department who did come out some time later. I did not want to be involved but I did not leave my building in case the fire department needed to talk with me. I stayed with the door open and the lights on. At approximately 8pm a customer saw the door open and stopped by. I explained that we were closed for the night but he could come by tomorrow. As he was pulling out, the woman neighbor ran up to his car. I assume she mistook him for me. She began yelling “You started this **** you hilbilly peckerwood, I will end it. You ****ed with the wrong [person]. I will show you what kind of [person] I am. You will be sorry. I will end it. ****ed with the wrong [person]...” The prospective customer sped away. At this point the neighbor saw me at the door. She continued yelling the same profanity at me as she returned to her house. I debated calling the sheriff again but decided it was best not to antagonize the situation any further. I waited for some time to make sure I was safe. Double checked that the building and all cars were locked, and I left.


make sure you have no trespassing signs up and if she comes over again take a picture of her and call the cops. she's a definite wack job.


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 23, 2016)

The neighbour sounds like the Trunchbull on the movie Matilda starring Danny Davito. Lol


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## Streblerm (Apr 23, 2016)

I really struggled over calling the FD. I feel a bit guilty involving them in my neighbor problem. I think there is some real threat, other than just being unpleasant, of an ember getting sucked into a couple 15hp fans.

As far as involving the EPA or some other organization, i really hate to. Sometimes people in those organizations like to hassle small shops. I have nothing to hide but_ don't want to have to prove it_. Getting those organizations involved could backfire on me in terms of causing more work. I hope the neighbors aren't smart enough to figure that out. 

We follow the letter of the law with EPA, OSHA, ARAQMD, etc. I have all my ducks in a row as far as purchase records, use records. and disposal records. We use low VOC products even though we don't have to. We have have dumpster service that is rarely full. We recycle all paper, cardboard and plastic and any car part goes to the scrapyard for recycling (and we get paid for it).

Also, Despite the asshats that they are I am not looking to punish them. I wish they would understand that.


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## olyman (Apr 23, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> I really struggled over calling the FD. I feel a bit guilty involving them in my neighbor problem. I think there is some real threat, other than just being unpleasant, of an ember getting sucked into a couple 15hp fans.
> 
> As far as involving the EPA or some other organization, i really hate to. Sometimes people in those organizations like to hassle small shops. I have nothing to hide but_ don't want to have to prove it_. Getting those organizations involved could backfire on me in terms of causing more work. I hope the neighbors aren't smart enough to figure that out.
> 
> ...


their not going to,,and they have already proved it.. and from what you said,,the old man is pw...you do what you want,,but id burn that hateful female...shes do a good lesson in humility...seeing her hauled off to jail,,id laugh as she was driven away....probably has gotten her snide way all her life...as one said,,shes a wack job..and I wouldn't put it past her,,to burn your bldg. to the ground.....to bad you don't have a lot of vids,,and the accompanying sound........just her loud mouth,,would land her in the pokey,,for threatening you.....


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## cuinrearview (Apr 23, 2016)

Anyone else picturing Roy Munson's landlord in the movie Kingpin?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 23, 2016)

cuinrearview said:


> Anyone else picturing Roy Munson's landlord in the movie Kingpin?



That's what I pictured but 150 lbs heavier.


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## sb47 (Apr 23, 2016)

Well it's Saturday night so I must confess. I have a healthy Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz going on, so forgive the typos.
I know I have one monitor, but ia seeing at least two.
Long story short, I had a neighbor that call ed the EPA on me for fire pit fires I had out in the yard. If the EPA gets a complaint, they have to investigate. I was BBQing and The EPA showed up a 3 in the morning to investigate. Out of about 40 calls on me. Not one fine and they all told me I was legal. I only burn wood, no toxic plastic or stuff like that.

There is way more but when the EPA investigated me. I pointed out his burn pile that was full of PCV pipe, tires and other no,no's.
The EPA guy told me he's going over there and right him up.
He was there for an hour.
Amazingly I never got another call from him.

Karma. She may take her time, but she works.


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## sb47 (Apr 23, 2016)

I may tell the whole story later but I see 3 monitors at the moment. And my typing is well " hen pecking"
Just one of those night I just need to let go and unwind.


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## 066blaster (Apr 23, 2016)

Call the cops on her every chance you get. Illegal burning , disorderly conduct, if she gets a few tickets she'll stop


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## sb47 (Apr 23, 2016)

066blaster said:


> Call the cops on her every chance you get. Illegal burning , disorderly conduct, if she gets a few tickets she'll stop


Cops wont do anything if its legal to burn.


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## 066blaster (Apr 23, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Cops wont do anything if its legal to burn.


He said they had been issued a citation for open burning without a permit.. maybe the burning has stopped but if she is chasing customers away and threatening him, I'd call the cops. If she's being that nasty get a frickin restraining order. Who needs more frustration from a woman, don't know if the OP is married, but my wife gives me all I can handle!!


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## svk (Apr 23, 2016)

Having been on both sides of something like this (although when I was the "offender" I was burning maple and my neighbor just wanted to be an ass since he knew I was moving in a week) here are my thoughts:

You need to continue to involve LEO especially if this thug is going to blatantly threaten you. Repeated calls are the only way to prove you are in the right as eventually they will get pretty firm with the neighbor to knock that crap off. Also document (and if possible record) every communication you have with both LEO and the neighbor.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

The thing is to pay very close the any burn bands in your county.
Burn bands Are set by the judges in that county. And it goes by county. 
A big rain after a dry spell is not the time to burn.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

Here is the latest, but probably not the last installment:




On April 20th at approximately 4pm the male neighbor came into my shop complaining of a bee’s nest in my building. He requested that I give him $200 to pay for someone “to take care of it.” I explained that they were honey bees and that I had already consulted with an apiarist. Due to them being in the blocks of my building they could not be removed, only destroyed. I explained that I would prefer to leave them. They are endangered, beneficial, and have never bothered anyone. However, if he felt they were a problem he could pay to have a professional exterminator deal with them. He then left the building muttering that I would be sorry and that I would wish I had just given him the money. He and the woman stood out on the sidewalk in front of my building for several minutes (I have video) yelling that I would be sorry. Once they got their lawyer involved and we had to move our fence I would wish I’d have just paid them. After several minutes of this the woman got the attention of a young sheriff fueling his car next door. I saw them talking and eventually the sheriff entered my building. I explained the situation with the dispute over the fire and outlined our last three interactions. The officer then asked, what about the bees? I explained there were honey bees in our building. They were not a nuisance to me. If the neighbors thought they were then they could pay for an exterminator to remove them. The officer seemed satisfied by this. He took my name and DL# and said he would go talk to the neighbor.

Later that night another sheriff stopped by. I had already left for the evening. My partner was there and he asked the officer if this was about the bees? The officer said no, but he knew all about them. He was here to investigate a complaint from the neighbor that on April 18th (the night the fire department was there) someone on our property threw something at their house and then sped away in a red van (I drive a red van). Also that workers at our shop were loitering and smoking behind the building and throwing trash and cigarettes on their property. All of these claims are false. We have both a smoking area and a lunch room at the shop, neither of which are anywhere near the neighbor’s property. Furthermore a 25’ high arborvitae privacy screen separates our lot and their driveway and their house is 150’ from the street. In any event it was extremely unlikely that I would or could throw anything at their house. The officer seemed satisfied by this. I have requested a copy of this report.


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 24, 2016)

You sir are 100% involved in a neighbor war. This one looks like it's going to get really messy. 

Record every interaction and keep calling the police. Make sure you have a good security camera system too.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

My plan is to give them nothing. I will not talk to them, I will not engage them, I will not honor any request they give unless it is accompanied by a court order. If my fence is on their property then they can get a lawyer, and a survey and compel me to take it down. We don't do police impound anymore and don't need a secure lot. If I have to I'll just go sawzall the sum-b down. Same with the bees. Get a lawyer, and a court order and I'll go spray them with some permethrin. I've found with unreasonable people it is best to let them yell themselves out

I'm not calling the police for frivolous things but if they stand out in my parking lot threatening me again I will. I will video tape all interactions and if the police are called again I plan to provide the timeline I posted here. Then I will make a formal complaint. 

For those that have read this from the beginning, are the dated portions clear?  Basically I am preparing a written statement for the police the next time they are involved.


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## olyman (Apr 24, 2016)

I would not put it past,, that human female,, to do something drastic,, esp now that that the pw old man is bitching also...them two are a work of art.......................you need DAMN good security cameras.. N O W.. the cops will love to see them,, as that dung pile female escalates this,,and like I said,, they wont stop,, till they are hauled away in handcuffs, if your bldg aint burning first............and theyve aready proven,,their yelling wont wear out,,,,


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## IyaMan (Apr 24, 2016)

Yes, get a security camera. Don't just rely on video for when you're there. 

But what may be even better is get a dozen "fake" security cameras as well (can be pretty cheap, but real looking), put them clear in the open and/or be sure they see you put them up. Deterrence is probably better in this situation. I'd say you're better off not having anything worth filming and with that no problem, rather than have to go through the ordeal of reporting some secret video footage of your property being damaged.

Sounds like its a daily thing that's only escalating, so do the camera thing soon.


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## olyman (Apr 24, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Yes, get a security camera. Don't just rely on video for when you're there.
> 
> But what may be even better is get a dozen "fake" security cameras as well (can be pretty cheap, but real looking), put them clear in the open and/or be sure they see you put them up. Deterrence is probably better in this situation. I'd say you're better off not having anything worth filming and with that no problem, rather than have to go through the ordeal of reporting some secret video footage of your property being damaged.
> 
> Sounds like its a daily thing that's only escalating, so do the camera thing soon.


well, if they have any smarts at all..fake ones are easy to spot,,after looking for a bit........


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## al-k (Apr 24, 2016)

My father's neighbor burns her leaves every year, last year it got away from her and she caught the woods on fire. It burned right up to his driveway before the fire department got control of it. Makes you wonder what some people are not thinking.
Good luck with that .


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## IyaMan (Apr 24, 2016)

olyman said:


> well, if they have any smarts at all..fake ones are easy to spot,,after looking for a bit.......


True... I mean, the easy to spot part is true.
The "if they had any smarts" part, well, after reading this whole thread, I'm not so sure about that....


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## Ironworker (Apr 24, 2016)

There are three sides to every story, your side, their side and the truth. Neighbor conflicts can be very messy to the point that cops don't like to get involved, sometimes you have to get dirty to the point of either pressing charges for harassment next time they come on your property yelling or even legally pissing them off to the point that they put their hands on you and then you can press assault charges. Logging everything is a smart thing that you are doing. You should probably buy a log book and put everything on there, I believe they are admissible in a court of law.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

One of the things that sucks is that they basically hold the west side of our building hostage. It is very close to the property line. I think about 5'. They seem to think the building is the property line. Either way I'm not going over there to antagonize her. 

They don't even own the property. They are either renting or buying land contract. The owner of record is a local real estate holding Corp. 

One of my guys found two registered letters to them in our parking lot. He put them back in the mailbox Maybe they are getting evicted. I could see her tossing a registered letter. I can only hope. 

I actually hope they do something to the building. It's not Christian but I am tired of turning the other cheek. I am somewhat ashamed to admit that I would take some satisfaction in seeing them hauled off in handcuffs. As long as nobody was hurt, I have insurance.


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 24, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Yes, get a security camera. Don't just rely on video for when you're there.
> 
> But what may be even better is get a dozen "fake" security cameras as well (can be pretty cheap, but real looking), put them clear in the open and/or be sure they see you put them up. Deterrence is probably better in this situation. I'd say you're better off not having anything worth filming and with that no problem, rather than have to go through the ordeal of reporting some secret video footage of your property being damaged.
> 
> Sounds like its a daily thing that's only escalating, so do the camera thing soon.


Sometimes the real camera will catch someone tampering with the fake ones, trying to disable them.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

buzz sawyer said:


> Sometimes the real camera will catch someone tampering with the fake ones, trying to disable them.



That's deviant and perfect. I am reluctant to devote any more significant time to this fiasco. As a small business owner time is literally money. A fake bait camera right on the corner of the building, near their firepit ought to piss them off. I'm sure in some drunken or drugged out fit they won't be able to resist pulling it down. A game camera on the fake camera should catch it happen. That could lead to installment five, initiated by me. Hello sheriff...


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

I'm thinking about taking up smoking again back by the corner of the building. I think I will put an ashtray back there though. 7am tomorrow morning when I get to work I think i'm going to make one out of a 55 gallon drum...with an air chisel...out behind the shop.


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## greenskeeper (Apr 24, 2016)

Do not put up any fake cameras. It sounds absolutely crazy but there was a lawsuit where someone was assaulted on a business property and the victim asked for the security footage. When their lawyer was told the cameras were fake the BUSINESS was sued! Can't make this stuff up.

Wifi cameras are so cheap (some under $100) I'd put at least one pointing towards the problem area with your neighbor and RECORD.


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## greenskeeper (Apr 24, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> I'm thinking about taking up smoking again back by the corner of the building. I think I will put an ashtray back there though. 7am tomorrow morning when I get to work I think i'm going to make one out of a 55 gallon drum...with an air chisel...out behind the shop.



Don't provoke or escalate the problem.....the neighbors will do something stupid on their own and you'll have it on tape with your nifty security camera.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

They are cutting down all the scrubby crap that has grown next to the building. I'm pretty sure it is on our property. We just fixed a car for a surveyor and he is coming out in a couple of weeks to shoot the line. I have a professional landscaper friend. I wonder what the value of those Alianthus and Lilac are?

I think I will wait until they cut it all down to do anything about it.

Anybody know about security cameras?


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## Shagbark (Apr 24, 2016)

Contact the real estate holding company that owns/rents/sells the property. If the holding company still has ownership they will not want to see their tenant create problems for them. I spent many years in property management, and would investigate the situation, then immediately evict the tenant.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

Shagbark said:


> Contact the real estate holding company that owns/rents/sells the property. If the holding company still has ownership they will not want to see their tenant create problems for them. I spent many years in property management, and would investigate the situation, then immediately evict the tenant.



I think that's a fantastic idea. It's a small town, we are looking for a personal introduction. I was going to lay this out make them aware of what has happened so far and explain that we don't want it to escalate any further. I was going to suggest that we agree on a mutually beneficial easement for access to our building as well as their driveway. I suspect, and will find out for sure, that/if their driveway is partially on our property. There is also a potentially hazardous alianthus on the property line that I would like removed. At my expense with insured contractors of course.


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## svk (Apr 24, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> *Yes, get a security camera. Don't just rely on video for when you're there. *
> 
> But what may be even better is get a dozen "fake" security cameras as well (can be pretty cheap, but real looking), put them clear in the open and/or be sure they see you put them up. Deterrence is probably better in this situation. I'd say you're better off not having anything worth filming and with that no problem, rather than have to go through the ordeal of reporting some secret video footage of your property being damaged.
> 
> Sounds like its a daily thing that's only escalating, so do the camera thing soon.


Best Idea yet. Multiple if you can afford them. 


Regarding the dates. Yes very good to have as well as the exact time of each interaction.


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## Shagbark (Apr 24, 2016)

svk said:


> Best Idea yet. Multiple if you can afford them.
> 
> 
> Regarding the dates. Yes very good to have as well as the exact time of each interaction.



I have been to court many times as a property manager. As long as you have not violated any law in the case, the party with the most (accurate) documentation wins. Every threat, should be documented by a police report. Every trespass, by a police report. Request a restraining order, as the neighbor is affecting your business by harassing potential customers, and threatening your well being. You will build a solid case if ever needed.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 24, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> I wonder what the value of those Alianthus and Lilac are?


It might surprise you. Ever price out a 5-10 YO bush/tree? They get pricey pretty quick.
Interesting thread.


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 24, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> They are cutting down all the scrubby crap that has grown next to the building. I'm pretty sure it is on our property. We just fixed a car for a surveyor and he is coming out in a couple of weeks to shoot the line. I have a professional landscaper friend. I wonder what the value of those Alianthus and Lilac are?
> 
> I think I will wait until they cut it all down to do anything about it.
> 
> ...


I put two up outside our house last year as we had some neighborhood problems. I'll PM you details. Check for local ordinances/ restrictions on these. My system has a provision to block selectable areas from viewing and recording - see photo - just taken of the monitor screen. Probably not a good idea to record what someone is doing on their property, legally or illegall. I can set them for motion detection, scheduled, or constant recording. Daytime viewing is excellent but night vision leaves something to be desired unless you have a lot of light. I would also consider wireless vs wired that I installed - much easier to relocate the cameras as needed. I can view these remotely on-line and on my phone.

Greenskeeper - can you provide any links to the lawsuit about fake cameras? Of course, you can sue anybody for anything, but I have a real difficult time understanding how that would hold up in court.


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 24, 2016)

Lotsa good advice here. You could also do case study in your local Law Library of similar cases.
Hope things don't get to messy.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

greenskeeper said:


> Don't provoke or escalate the problem.....the neighbors will do something stupid on their own and you'll have it on tape with your nifty security camera.


I agree, keep your actions legal and within reason. Document everything, dates, times, and photos if possible.
Once you have enough evidence, file a harassment clam.


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## farmer steve (Apr 24, 2016)

Shagbark said:


> Contact the real estate holding company that owns/rents/sells the property. If the holding company still has ownership they will not want to see their tenant create problems for them. I spent many years in property management, and would investigate the situation, then immediately evict the tenant.



i thought about the OP's post earlier about this and i was going to post the same thing. contact the owner of the property.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Well it's Saturday night so I must confess. I have a healthy Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz going on, so forgive the typos.
> I know I have one monitor, but ia seeing at least two.
> Long story short, I had a neighbor that call ed the EPA on me for fire pit fires I had out in the yard. If the EPA gets a complaint, they have to investigate. I was BBQing and The EPA showed up a 3 in the morning to investigate. Out of about 40 calls on me. Not one fine and they all told me I was legal. I only burn wood, no toxic plastic or stuff like that.
> 
> ...




Man what a night! At one point I was seeing 3 monitors and 2 keyboards.
Lets just say I was lit!
For being so hammer'ed, I didn't do so bad. lol
My oligopolies if you were offended.
It was Saturday night and I had been dealing with flooding for 4 days.
So I flooded my blood with alcohol.
Good times!!! lol


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## KiwiBro (Apr 24, 2016)

Ironworker said:


> There are three sides to every story, your side, their side and the truth.


Abject piffle. Speaking the truth may be a foreign concept to some but remarkable as it may seem to the same or similar liars, there are still people who value the truth over their own gain or limiting of losses. I have read or heard of such sayings as yours before and, frankly, the inherent disrespect pisses me off.


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## chads (Apr 24, 2016)

I have had a few of these type over the years and after talking to a old guy about it we came up with a solution.
Kill them with kindness and it will make them upset that they cannot upset you. While they are cussing you out just think of your favorite song and hum it in your head and smile after a while they will run out of hot air all the while your smiling at them and say thank you and to have a good day. If they smoke you out thank them for giving you the day off and smoking out the bees too... well maybe not that far but you get the idea.
If they come while you have a customer say something like these are the greatest neighbor I have ever had they keep an eye on the place and even let me know who's been lurking around. after that they would look like a fool to start yelling at you. If they do you will have a documented witness as to their unstability or metal case. Wave and smile at them every chance you get. after a while they will quit trying to make you mad and give up.
I would keep up on the records and ask for a informal meeting with the property manager to discuss the problem, The property manager will not want to deal with their insurance or atty. either so they will be inclined to get it taken care of asap. However if they left the trash out there the health dept is the place to work that end if needed. Look on line at the county website they usually have a map of the property on it. You can generally see where the line is without having to pay for a survey.
If they are cutting your trees tell the property manager. In this case I would say something like" We all know how ugly it can get when somone is treaspassing and cutting trees down etc. I just want to give you a heads up so you know what is going on over there. You also may want to mention that illegal burning may cause the fire dept to look the other way if there is a real fire on their property someday. The key is to not act upset in any way but to be soft spoken and frank with them. I usually say I dont want to have to take this to the next level but If "you" had to choose between your business being able to operate so "you" can make" your" house payments , what would you do? And leave it at that.

As for the smoke I would really struggle with it as it shuts you down for the day. Document how many hours of booth time, your labor, shop rate and overhead etc. you have lost. Add in time for preparing documents phone calls etc. The court will need this if you ever get there.
I am not sure if I would share that figure on the first visit but think if they don't take care of it on the second visit would discuss what you prepared and ask for the names of who is involved,tenant, owner, management co, etc. they will not give them to you but will give the impression your are prepared to go to the next level. When you part be sure to get the persons first and last name and write it down or say "I may need that."
Then follow up with a certified letter outlining the tenants actions.
Showing that you have formally notified the management company/owner of the situation.
Good luck,
Chad

Usually in these cases it is better to leave your end vague so they can use their imiganation as to your remedy.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> Abject piffle. Speaking the truth may be a foreign concept to some but remarkable as it may seem to the same or similar liars, there are still people who value the truth over their own gain or limiting of losses. I have read or heard of such sayings as yours before and, frankly, the inherent disrespect pisses me off.



I agree with his statement. There are always 3 sides to a story. Unless there are whiteness. Then More sides come out. Kinda like a Rubik's Cube. lol


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

buzz sawyer said:


> I put two up outside our house last year as we had some neighborhood problems. I'll PM you details. Check for local ordinances/ restrictions on these. My system has a provision to block selectable areas from viewing and recording - see photo - just taken of the monitor screen. Probably not a good idea to record what someone is doing on their property, legally or illegall. I can set them for motion detection, scheduled, or constant recording. Daytime viewing is excellent but night vision leaves something to be desired unless you have a lot of light. I would also consider wireless vs wired that I installed - much easier to relocate the cameras as needed. I can view these remotely on-line and on my phone.
> 
> Greenskeeper - can you provide any links to the lawsuit about fake cameras? Of course, you can sue anybody for anything, but I have a real difficult time understanding how that would hold up in court.




From what I understand, an outdoor security camera pointed in a direction that would catch vandals on your property . Is legal, even if it captures your neighbors property.
Even on privet land, if someone standing outside the perimeter can film anything they want.
The media dose it everyday!
The media post security pictures of crimes from surveillance cameras from other business on the news every day. 
The key is to not trespass on privet property to do it.


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## Del_ (Apr 24, 2016)

sb47 said:


> From what I understand, an outdoor security camera pointed in a direction that would catch vandals on your property . Is legal, even if it captures your neighbors property.
> Even on privet land, if someone standing outside the perimeter can film anything they want.
> The media dose it everyday!
> The media post security pictures of crimes from surveillance cameras from other business on the news every day.
> The key is to not trespass on privet property to do it.



I believe you are right.

Watching the video will tell the tale and if it looks like it's set up to 'spy' on the neighbors Vs. monitor one's own property.........it is not going to help the cause but instead look like harassment.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Well it's Saturday night so I must confess. I have a healthy Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz going on, so forgive the typos.
> I know I have one monitor, but ia seeing at least two.
> Long story short, I had a neighbor that call ed the EPA on me for fire pit fires I had out in the yard. If the EPA gets a complaint, they have to investigate. I was BBQing and The EPA showed up a 3 in the morning to investigate. Out of about 40 calls on me. Not one fine and they all told me I was legal. I only burn wood, no toxic plastic or stuff like that.
> 
> ...



Now that my keyboard has morphed back into one again, I'll finish the story. 
His background. He and his family of 7 kids, that were never allowed to play outside were devout religious freaks. ( I say that because he always brought up the fact that Jesus was missing from my heart) If he saw a single puff of smoke coming from my direction, he called the EPA.
Not just on me but every other neighbor living close by.
One day he calls me to the fence wanting to ask a question.
Our property butts up together and there was an old bob wire fence with Tallow trees growing right on the line.
After all the grief he caused me, he had the nerve to ask to put up a chain link fence. No problem there. Untill he wanted to put it on my side of the line. Taking up 4 feet of my property.
I said, are you kidding me? You go out of your way to try to get me in trouble and you want me to give you my land? 
I said hell no. You can put the fence on your side of the trees, or cut the trees and put the fence back on the property line where in belongs.
So he rented a backhoe and started removing all the trees.
I could see he had a giant pile of wood and he wasn't even half finished.
I tried one more time to be a good neighbor and offers him a spot on my place to pile the rest. 
I specifically told him I would be burning the pile. He said he was going to do the same.
Kinda hypocritical considering all the times he called the EPA on me.
He gets his fence up and a few months pass and i burn "HIS" pile of wood.

You guessed it, He called the EPA.

That leads back to the beginning story. He had not burned his pile but had pilled PVC pipe and tires in his pile.
Thats when the EPA guy paid him a visit.

Fast forward a few years. He got divorced, not one of his kids ever came to visit. He turned his house into a unlicensed halfway house. In witch several of his drunk tenets drove through by back fence, almost hitting my house by mere inches. 
He fell off a ladder, had complications and died.
The house is empty and foreclosed on.

Karma.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 24, 2016)

If you have a business you probably already have an attorney that you use, maybe pop in for a quick chat to see whats legal and whats not as far as surveillance, preventative measures, what will carry weight in court, etc. If you don't already have a guy that you use, $100 would probably buy an hour and some good legal advice.


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## svk (Apr 24, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Now that my keyboard has morphed back into one again, I'll finish the story.
> His background. He and his family of 7 kids, that were never allowed to play outside were devout religious freaks. ( I say that because he always brought up the fact that Jesus was missing from my heart) If he saw a single puff of smoke coming from my direction, he called the EPA.
> Not just on me but every other neighbor living close by.
> One day he calls me to the fence wanting to ask a question.
> ...



...that's when the epa paid him a visit. 

Priceless!


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## IyaMan (Apr 24, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> If you have a business you probably already have an attorney that you use, maybe pop in for a quick chat to see whats legal and whats not as far as surveillance, preventative measures, what will carry weight in court, etc.



Yeah, knowing whats legal or not in your town/state will prevent further headache (though if its just your property in the video it should be no problem). Lots of advice here is coming from all over the place, but laws can be pretty specific according to the area. 

And also be careful what you do and who you show the video to if you do catch them. You don't what to wreck your evidence by posting it on Facebook.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

svk said:


> ...that's when the epa paid him a visit.
> 
> Priceless!




Yep. and no more calls to the the EPA. And no more visits. Stopped him right in his tracks.
I never wished harm to the man, just that he mind his own business.
I have lived her for 50+ years, he only lived here for about 20 years, in a house that my grand parents lived in.
No one in the neighborhood was sad to see him go.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Yeah, knowing whats legal or not in your town/state will prevent further headache (though if its just your property in the video it should be no problem). Lots of advice here is coming from all over the place, but laws can be pretty specific according to the area.
> 
> And also be careful what you do and who you show the video to if you do catch them. You don't what to wreck your evidence by posting it on Facebook.



If your in public view, you might as well be standing on stage. If someone can see you and wants to look. It's on you.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

I may just put a camera in the front in case they come around screaming again. I can tell when they are burning without a camera and I really don't care what else they do in their back yard as long as it stays in their back yard. There really isn't much worth protecting in the back lot. Mostly leftovers from towing that nobody ever came to get. 

I haven't heard anything from them since Weds night. Maybe after they called the police out twice with no satisfaction they are starting to get the picture.

I barely react when they yell. It really pisses her off. I just sit and smile. In the future it will be sit smile and video.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Yeah, knowing whats legal or not in your town/state will prevent further headache (though if its just your property in the video it should be no problem). Lots of advice here is coming from all over the place, but laws can be pretty specific according to the area.
> 
> And also be careful what you do and who you show the video to if you do catch them. You don't what to wreck your evidence by posting it on Facebook.



I have decided not to post any pics or video that could easily identify either party


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 24, 2016)

If you can't sue them, shoot them! It's the American way. Lol


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> If you can't sue them, shoot them! It's the American way. Lol



Guess that makes me Unamerican.  Those are certainly the last two outcomes I'm looking for. 

Anybody see Idiocracy? I keep thinking back to my first interaction with the BND and somehow I wonder if I woke up and the English language has devolved to a mixture slangs and profanity. The way I talk, while understood , sounds condescending and effeminate. I've always felt Mike Judge was a genius but I didn't know he was a prophet.


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 24, 2016)

I was just wondering about adjacent neighbours and was wondering if they have had similar problems with the filth they have to share boundaries with.
What if you were nice to them and brought over a few beverages and asked them over for a BbQ?
They might just feel a bit alienated and need some friendly contact.
If she were my neighbour, I'd totaly disarm her with my smile and my radiant blue eyes.
Turn the other cheek, she might be an ok gal, even though her hubby sounds like a dweeb.
Twer me, I'd put the wood to her, as in railroad ties burning in a barrel.


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 24, 2016)

I think it will all iron out. She may have other issues, so take the wind out her sails by being nice to her. You can attact more bees with honey than than you can with vinegar.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

The other neighbor is a second hand store and is upwind. We are in a commercially zoned area. The BND, in some of her screaming fits, has told me that the people at the store told her had been throwing trash on her property for years

So much for good neighbors.

it probably went down more like the BND ranting in the store and the people agreeing with her so she would leave. 

In any case I'm not going to them for help.


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## Streblerm (Apr 24, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> I think it will all iron out. She may have other issues, so take the wind out her sails by being nice to her. You can attact more bees with honey than than you can with vinegar.



The bees really did seem to bother them...


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> I was just wondering about adjacent neighbours and was wondering if they have had similar problems with the filth they have to share boundaries with.
> What if you were nice to them and brought over a few beverages and asked them over for a BbQ?
> They might just feel a bit alienated and need some friendly contact.
> If she were my neighbour, I'd totaly disarm her with my smile and my radiant blue eyes.
> ...





Timber Tool said:


> I think it will all iron out. She may have other issues, so take the wind out her sails by being nice to her. You can attact more bees with honey than than you can with vinegar.




One has to stop and think. That person may be under extreme pressure from all directions. And there at there whits end. You may be straw that broke the Camel's back. So the vented there anger on you.
Been there done that.
Some places tend to considerate heavy smoke in valleys or *atmospheric* *conditions*.
I try to wait till the conditions let smoke go strait up and not linger and hang in the air, low to the ground.


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## sb47 (Apr 24, 2016)

I changed my avatar: 
What ya think?


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Apr 24, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Man what a night! At one point I was seeing 3 monitors and 2 keyboards.
> Lets just say I was lit!
> For being so hammer'ed, I didn't do so bad. lol
> My oligopolies if you were offended.
> ...



>So I flooded my blood with alcohol.


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## 95custmz (Apr 24, 2016)

Looks to be the same avatar.


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## sb47 (Apr 25, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> >So I flooded my blood with alcohol.


Yep, and I did it a good job of it. 
I'm not a drinker, In fact I really don't drink at all.
I'm allergic to it.
But once every 10 years I just say what the hell.
Trust me I'm feeling the worst part now the next day.
I guess everyone needs to cut loose every now and then


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## unclemoustache (Apr 25, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Man what a night! At one point I was seeing 3 monitors and 2 keyboards.
> Lets just say I was lit!
> For being so hammer'ed, I didn't do so bad. lol






sb47 said:


> I changed my avatar:
> What ya think?





I think it doesn't matter whether you're sober or drunk - your spelling still sucks!!!


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## unclemoustache (Apr 25, 2016)

sb47 said:


> There are always 3 sides to a story. Unless there are whiteness.


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## sb47 (Apr 25, 2016)

unclemoustache said:


> I think it doesn't matter whether you're sober or drunk - your spelling still sucks!!!



Hey! I'm not the one that created a language that is on of the hardest to master.
Some words are spelled the same but have different meanings. Letters that different meanings.
If your offended by my spellin, just move along. The spelling police are arrogant and full of themselves.
Did you have something to contribute to the thread, or are you just bragging?


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## Marshy (Apr 25, 2016)

Lots of good advice here but I think it's worth repeating some. 1) Seek councle on the issue, 2) know the trespassing laws (you might not be able to get them on trespassing if you don't have "No Trespassing" signs up), 3) continue to build a legal record with law enforcement if their harassing continues, 4) document economic losses as a result of their shenanigans, 4) use video for securits and documation every chance you can (including audio!), 5) don't participate/rebuttal, and 6) keep us up to date lol. GL


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 25, 2016)

sb47 said:


> From what I understand, an outdoor security camera pointed in a direction that would catch vandals on your property . Is legal, even if it captures your neighbors property.
> Even on privet land, if someone standing outside the perimeter can film anything they want.
> The media dose it everyday!
> The media post security pictures of crimes from surveillance cameras from other business on the news every day.
> The key is to not trespass on privet property to do it.


I have to wonder why they included a "privacy screen" function in the system. It must be illegal somewhere to video someone else's property without their consent.


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## sb47 (Apr 25, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Lots of good advice here but I think it's worth repeating some. 1) Seek councle on the issue, 2) know the trespassing laws (you might not be able to get them on trespassing if you don't have "No Trespassing" signs up), 3) continue to build a legal record with law enforcement if their harassing continues, 4) document economic losses as a result of their shenanigans, 4) use video for securits and documation every chance you can (including audio!), 5) don't participate/rebuttal, and 6) keep us up to date lol. GL




Good advice.
I like doing psychological experiments on the public. 
The more irritated they get, the calmer I get. Don't let them get your goat. Thats what they want.
It works most of the time. It catches them off guard and they start feeling foolish.


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## sb47 (Apr 25, 2016)

buzz sawyer said:


> I have to wonder why they included a "privacy screen" function in the system. It must be illegal somewhere to video someone else's property without their consent.



Not to my knowledge, it is legal. As long as the camera is not pointed directly into a window.
If it's just a general surveillance covering your yard and property. Then It's legal.
Welcome to the age of lost privacy.
Chances are, no mater where you go in public, your being recorded.
I saw a program where they can do things that will blow your mind.
No privacy anymore.


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## Ironworker (Apr 25, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> Abject piffle. Speaking the truth may be a foreign concept to some but remarkable as it may seem to the same or similar liars, there are still people who value the truth over their own gain or limiting of losses. I have read or heard of such sayings as yours before and, frankly, the inherent disrespect pisses me off.


Awe poor baby is pissed off, guess what? No one cares.


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## olyman (Apr 25, 2016)

notice the trash showed his face in this thread again?? and know one still gives a rats about his union opinion...nr self appointed holier than all......


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## peterpaul (Apr 25, 2016)

Here is stroy told to me by my then 82 year old neighbor (1972), Henry, who owned an auto repair garage. Behind his garage was a house and every Wenesday mid-morning, the woman who owned the house would come down and light her trash barrel on fire. The smoke would fill his garage and no attempt to get her to change her habit was successful. Every 4th Wenesday, the Woman would have her bridge club over for lunch and an afternoon playing bridge. So Henry had a hole cut in his cinder block wall opposite the burn barrel and installed a 4 foot diameter fan. Henry waits until one hot day in August, she lights her barrel up and then has her friends over for a lunch which was conviently servered on her back porch overlooking Henry's garage. Henry fired up the fan and smoked them out, she came out madder than hell, result, she moved the burn barrel over to the other side of her property and Henry removed the fan before the weather got cold. This took place back in the 50's so it wouldn't fly today.


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Apr 25, 2016)

peterpaul said:


> Here is stroy told to me by my then 82 year old neighbor (1972), Henry, who owned an auto repair garage. Behind his garage was a house and every Wenesday mid-morning, the woman who owned the house would come down and light her trash barrel on fire. The smoke would fill his garage and no attempt to get her to change her habit was successful. Every 4th Wenesday, the Woman would have her bridge club over for lunch and an afternoon playing bridge. So Henry had a hole cut in his cinder block wall opposite the burn barrel and installed a 4 foot diameter fan. Henry waits until one hot day in August, she lights her barrel up and then has her friends over for a lunch which was conviently servered on her back porch overlooking Henry's garage. Henry fired up the fan and smoked them out, she came out madder than hell, result, she moved the burn barrel over to the other side of her property and Henry removed the fan before the weather got cold. This took place back in the 50's so it wouldn't fly today.



hey pp, good one!  had a similar situation... the neighbors kept on, imo being pests... noise, pollution etc... so one day I moved one of my outdoor fire pits (on wheels) over to the fence line and lit me up a real good wet pine fire... on pretense to BBQ! lol   *talk about smoke!* I kept it going... wind put smoke in their faces! they came home to it and the sh*t hit the fan. I ignored them and threats of calling FD. "go ahead!' sirens soon permeated the air!! *really big red trucks!* but fireman decided they could not address the issue, as it was the Fire Marshall's decision since [somewhat  ] was controlled. [ lol ]... I kept adding pine. 2 hrs later he showed up, privately called me out for being a bit out of line. I said, but... but... I am merely having a BBQ!...

"yeah, right!", he said... "with wet pine?" 

 

well, the neighbors got the message. I couldn't get them to be reasonable... so I just smoked them out!!!  they up and moved suddenly several months later... during time place vacant, I went over and got their old door mat... not particularly a trophy [ NOT ] lol... and put it down in a suitable place in patio area... haha... I wanted it, even though bit worn & torn... haha, I wanted it, just to see it as a reminder that they was GONE!

I still have it....


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## CentaurG2 (Apr 25, 2016)

If the OP has not done so already, he really needs to lawyer up.


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## peterpaul (Apr 25, 2016)

While we are waiting for the next update from the OP, here is another Henry story I witnessed firsthand. Henry and I lived on a dirt road, my house was first and his was the second with a small hill in bewteen. Henry's wife had a kinda perpetual tag sale on their porch, mostly china, depression glass, etc. The porch was about 40' long with windows the whole length. The porch was only about 20' feet away from the road. We had this new neighbor up the road who recently purchased a summer residence, a nice old New England farmhouse. The house is only about 15' from the road at the most. The neighbor, Don (not his real name) was a dentisit from NYC and always drove a nice big new Mercedes. You could hear Don coming as he turned off the state highway and onto our road, roaring up the hill past my house and up the hill past Henry's in a cloud of dust. Henry asked him to slow down repeatedly as the dust would drift through the porch's jelosy windows and get all over his wife's glassware. We guessed that in Don's eyes, Henry was just a dumb old yankee, not refined and of good breeding like Don, consequently, Don ignored Henry's pleas. Then mid-summer, Don had a group of painters painting his house. The color was barn red. Henry waited patiently until the painters got to the front of his house, then Henry hooked up about ten 10'-20' log chains to the back of his 1964 Chevy pickup. Henry then took off up the road in a cloud of dust. He drove past Don's place and on up the road to turn around. As he approached Don's farmhouse, Don ran out into the road and flagged him down. Don starts yelling at Henry "What the hell do you think your doing". Henry sat there expressionless and listened to Don's rant "Can't you see I'm getting my house painted and your getting dust all over it." When Don finally came up for air, Henry very calmly, almost a whisper, said "I'm just cleaning the rust off of my chains.....................and oh by the way, this dust aint any different than the dust at my place when you come speeding by" From then on Don would go speeding by my place, then you could hear him slow way down as he passed Henry's and once past then gun it again. Dumb yankee


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## Streblerm (Apr 25, 2016)

All quiet today.


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## unclemoustache (Apr 25, 2016)

sb47 said:


> Hey! I'm not the one that created a language that is on of the hardest to master.
> Some words are spelled the same but have different meanings. Letters that different meanings.
> If your offended by my spellin, just move along. The spelling police are arrogant and full of themselves.
> Did you have something to contribute to the thread, or are you just bragging?




Nah, I'm just funnin' ya. No offense taken here.


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## Marine5068 (Apr 26, 2016)

farmer steve said:


> make sure you have no trespassing signs up and if she comes over again take a picture of her and call the cops. she's a definite wack job.


Nothing like a whacked out neighbour with lots of booze to fuel their fire.
Sorry for your problems, and definitely record and take notes of all instances and interactions. Get one of those little video cams for a hat brim. They work great and will be evidence if you need it.
I have a nasty neighbour too. He's a bit of a nut job and an alcoholic and I've been told by others that know him as well. He threatened to shoot my dog once for barking with his dog through the fence. He even pointed a loaded gun towards my house and said that he could shoot it if it jumped the fence and attacked him. Why do others always make up stories of things that could happen when nothing has happened? 
Police were called because he had the gun out and pointing in my direction and they told me that the dogs are only property and he can defend himself from them. I replied that I could shoot up his new truck if it veered onto my property to defend myself against it too then.....lol.(I don't own any guns but the point was made).
They warned him to put the gun away and not cause any more trouble.


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## sb47 (Apr 26, 2016)

unclemoustache said:


> Nah, I'm just funnin' ya. No offense taken here.





Not funny. Do you enjoy cyber bulling? Why do you do it?
Is your self esteem so low you feel the need to make fun of others?
Those kind of post just show your true feelings. Good to know.
Take that altitude over to Utube. Keep that **** off this forum.


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## unclemoustache (Apr 26, 2016)

Oh grow up. If you can't take a joke then you've got far deeper problems than alcoholism.


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## damato333 (Apr 26, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> Here is the latest, but probably not the last installment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see any reason to destroy the honey bees. As long as you don't mess with them, they won't mess with you. They are very beneficial and they do a lot of good work. But all I can picture is a big burly cop with a military hair cut and with his arms crossed he asks well what about the honey bees. It just seems like the stupidest thing for a cop to be involved in.


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 26, 2016)

damato333 said:


> I don't see any reason to destroy the honey bees. As long as you don't mess with them, they won't mess with you. They are very beneficial and they do a lot of good work. But all I can picture is a big burly cop with a military hair cut and with his arms crossed he asks well what about the honey bees. It just seems like the stupidest thing for a cop to be involved in.


Maybe he wanted to be part of a sting operation? sorry, someone had to say it.


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## damato333 (Apr 26, 2016)

buzz sawyer said:


> Maybe he wanted to be part of a sting operation? sorry, someone had to say it.


Lol I thought it was good


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## sb47 (Apr 27, 2016)

unclemoustache said:


> Oh grow up. If you can't take a joke then you've got far deeper problems than alcoholism.



Making fun of others at there expense, is no joke.
You didn't like my response , so you got offended.
Now you know what it feels like.
I like a good joke as well as anyone else. But what I wont put up with is someone feeling there better the others.
You took a jab is my inelegance, for your amusement, not cool.
You may be very smart, and good for you. But dont think just because your smart, your above others.
We have had some very nice conversations and have agreed on many things.
Respect, earns respect.
I'll get over it, and please try not to insult my intelligence.
I'm not holding a grudge, we all have brain farts from time to time, me included.
It's all good, And I'm not an alcoholic, I have a few beers about once a month, and i limit to 2/3 tops. However that night i went a little overboard.
I hope that helps clear up some confusion.
Lets keep it friendly and I will forgive your brain fart,
I would have been happier if you didn't insist I grow up. I wasn't the one doing the insulting.
Just food for thought.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 28, 2016)

OP as a bee keeper my self I will tell you that those can be removed by a experienced bee keeper not killed. The method is called a trap out some times a cut out, it does take a bit of time to do the job.
Basically you find the bees entrance and set up a cone they will be able to come out of their hive but can't for some strange reason find the way back in. You set a hive close for them to use at night which will get fuller and fuller every day.





I my self use a 5 frame nuc box rather than a 10 frame hive and change the nuc as it fills up. After a while when no bees are bringing any more food into the hive the queen will some times come out but most times she just starves to death. Once no more bees are coming out you can take the set up down and plug the entrance they used to get in the building.

Now a good bee keeper will charge for this, you have to do the set up and change the hives out from time to time. Equipment is tied up in the operation.

My self if they are not bothering any one and you are not forced to get rid of the bees due to some state, county or city law I would leave then alone.
Good luck with your problem I feel for you and all the stress of having to deal with that type of person/people.

 Al


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## svk (Apr 28, 2016)

That is awesome alleyyooper.


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## LoveStihlQuality (Apr 29, 2016)

olyman said:


> their not going to,,and they have already proved it.. and from what you said,,the old man is pw...you do what you want,,but id burn that hateful female...shes do a good lesson in humility...seeing her hauled off to jail,,id laugh as she was driven away....probably has gotten her snide way all her life...as one said,,shes a wack job..and I wouldn't put it past her,,to burn your bldg. to the ground.....to bad you don't have a lot of vids,,and the accompanying sound........just her loud mouth,,would land her in the pokey,,for threatening you.....


If she went to jail, doubt her husband would bail her out

LoveStihlQuality


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## brenndatomu (Apr 29, 2016)

Boy, I wonder how postal they would go if ya flew a quadcopter with a camera over...


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## Streblerm (Apr 29, 2016)

Well, all has been quiet this week.


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## Streblerm (May 7, 2016)

Another quiet week. I haven't seen the dude around for a couple weeks. Maybe he got smart and realized nothing was good enough to put up with that kind of crazy. The trash is building up around the house. That's fine with me as long as they aren't burning it. 

I wonder if the last time the police were there they might've said something like "next time we are called out here someone is going to jail and it likely won't be the guys at the business next door." 

Other than them moving this is about the best possible outcome. I hope things stay quiet.


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## Zale (May 10, 2016)

alleyyooper said:


> OP as a bee keeper my self I will tell you that those can be removed by a experienced bee keeper not killed. The method is called a trap out some times a cut out, it does take a bit of time to do the job.
> Basically you find the bees entrance and set up a cone they will be able to come out of their hive but can't for some strange reason find the way back in. You set a hive close for them to use at night which will get fuller and fuller every day.
> 
> 
> ...



If the queen starves to death, how is the hive viable? Sorry for the derail.


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## alleyyooper (May 11, 2016)

The catch hive has a queen in it that you either bought or like me raised your self.

 Al


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## svk (May 11, 2016)

alleyyooper said:


> The catch hive has a queen in it that you either bought or like me raised your self.
> 
> Al


So they just flock to the new queen and continue their lives? Some loyalty there LOL


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## alleyyooper (May 12, 2016)

No they do not flock to the new queen and hive. In fact I will not even install a queen in the catch hive for at least a week depending on the weather.
The workers only go to the catch hive because they can not find the opening to the tree, building/home.
that is why you set the catch hive so close to the entrance of where the bees are you want to trap out. 
Also keep in mind a worker bee only lives about 6 weeks in the summer because they wear out their wings.

 Al


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## 67L36Driver (May 12, 2016)

Iffin I was a bee, I'd be walking a lot.[emoji848]


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## CentaurG2 (May 12, 2016)

Zale said:


> If the queen starves to death, how is the hive viable? Sorry for the derail.


Honey bees are chemically driven by pheromones. If a queen dies, the worker bees will literally build a new one. They will also build queens if they feel the hive has gotten too big. The new queen will take off with about half the hive workers (swarm) and settle in whatever shelter they can find.


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## svk (May 12, 2016)

CentaurG2 said:


> Honey bees are chemically driven by pheromones. If a queen dies, the worker bees will literally build a new one. They will also build queens if they feel the hive has gotten too big. The new queen will take off with about half the hive workers (swarm) and settle in whatever shelter they can find.


Kinda sounds like chainsaw forums


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## CentaurG2 (May 12, 2016)

Truly a stunning analogy or perhaps we should say stinging for the Benedict Arnolds.

The old saw:
A swarm in May is worth a load of hay.
A swarm in June is worth a silver spoon
But a swarm in July is not worth a fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE


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## unclemoustache (May 12, 2016)

svk said:


> Kinda sounds like chainsaw forums


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## cuinrearview (May 12, 2016)

svk said:


> Kinda sounds like chainsaw forums



This screams a question: who was the queen?


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## svk (May 12, 2016)

cuinrearview said:


> This screams a question: who was the queen?


You mean QueenS. 

Probably should walk from this conversation right now.


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## alleyyooper (May 13, 2016)

The swarm first of the year from a hive. The workers make up queen cells many of them. It takes nearly a month for the egg in the queen cell to develop, about 10 days before the cell hatches the workers stop feeding the old queen as much food to slim her down for flight. Yes the first swarm from a hive is lead by the OLD queen. After swarms will have a new young queen in them. Since the old queen has not flown since her last mating flight she tires quickly and will land some place. the workers and drones will cluster around her to protect her. Scouts are then sent out to find a new suitable home. Once a scout returns and tells of their findings a group is sent to check it out also. The group returns and tells yes they have found a new home so they fly off to the location. This can take from a couple of hours to several days and some times they never do find a suitable home and will build the comb where ever they are all summer. 









If you see one of these do not spray it or kill it. Do a goggle search for a bee keeper in your state to call and come get them.
My grand daughter will tell you they are pretty harmless if left alone.





Sorry I did not mean to side track your post. I was just wanting to point out there is a way to remove the bees from your building. I also wanted to clear up false information others have posted.

 Al


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## svk (May 13, 2016)

I threw you a like for the data even though I would never let kids close to that!

At least real bees don't go back to the old hive to spread defication around before they get "zapped" lol. Sorry had to say it.


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## unclemoustache (May 13, 2016)

Had a swarm of honeybees in a tree that a local tree service cut down. It took a lot of phone calls, but I was able to track down a bee guy to come and get them. The log was loaded (carefully) onto my trailer, and sat there for a few days until the bee guy could come with his truck. We cut the log small enough so we could get it onto his truck, and he hauled it all away. He left it in a field until it was warm enough and plants were up enough to move them to the boxes. I should call him up and ask how that went. Hopefully the hive survived all that.


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## Streblerm (May 14, 2016)

The hive remains undisturbed. I'm certain that the day the neighbors were freaked the hive was swarming. It was one of the first really warm days in spring. Before the neighbor incident I was inclined to let them alone, now even more so. 

A little update. Apparently they have taken my advice about not burning during business hours but the FD is not nearly as flexible as I am. There was a blurb on the local police blotter about a " house fire" next to our shop. Well, their's is the only house near us. There were flames two stories high. The house is still standing so I can only assume they had a big old trash fire that the FD came and put out.


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