# HOW TO BE AN EXCELLENT GROUNDMAN



## MasterBlaster (Apr 30, 2004)

This is how I'll submit the groundman article. It will be added to (edited) as I receive ya'lls suggestions. It's all pc'd up and the grammer and punctuation is much better. The suggestions have just about all been given, but I'm still open for anything that doesn't go into any more detail than necessary.

I still don't like putting groundman in the title, but that word is pretty much the industry standard. I'm gonna use it, but only once -- in the title.

I started another thread so the final copy wouldn't be buried five pages into the old thread.


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 30, 2004)

Thanks Brian... I dunno whut happened..

It double-posted, also. It's fixed.


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## MasterBlaster (May 1, 2004)

Bump for a slow AS nite...


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## Dadatwins (May 1, 2004)

List looks good MB a couple of questions though # 3 what is a chauffers license? I thought all commercial trucks needed a CDL either a class B or C. Anything with air brakes has to have that endorsement as well. Looks like some of what's in # 4 might be owners responsibility. Ok to ask groundman to check on items but list makes it sound like they should supply? Maybe I mis read anyway good list.


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## MasterBlaster (May 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Dadatwins _
> * Ok to ask groundman to check on items but list makes it sound like they should supply? Maybe I mis read anyway good list. *



Securing a signed document from a new employee stating the job description CYA and lets the new hire know where you stand. By giving them two copies they will have their personal copy.
I wish I was given this on my first day! 

I'm not sure where I said you have to provide your own equipment...


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## Dadatwins (May 2, 2004)

I re-read and no, you did not say they should supply but they are there to check and make sure that those items are in the truck. ie: first aid kit ( a good one for serious injury not a scratch kit) , wasp spray, cones and flags, but it is the owners responsibility to make sure those items are on the truck to begin with and the groundmans job to check and make sure they are present and stocked. I guess I would feel better if it read to check and advise supervisor if any of these are missing ? Just my most humble opinion.  

P.S. About the license, have never seen a chauffer's license except to drive a taxi cab, limo or bus. In N.Y. a few years after I started driving all were converted to letter system CDL. I started with a old Class 3 and went to a Class B w air/ brakes and haz mat and that 's all I ever had but if they still call it a chauffer's in your town go for it.


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## kowens (May 2, 2004)

*the perfect grounds man*

will the real spyder man please stand up


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## Tom Dunlap (May 2, 2004)

Look at the monitor on the left. It looks like Spidey believes in getting a well-rounded education 

Tom


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## MasterBlaster (May 2, 2004)

Alright I changed chauffeuer to commercial and added a little bit.

I still don't like saying 'groundman'.


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## wiley_p (May 3, 2004)

I'm not sure that calling the dropzone the "kill" zone lends much confidence to a new employee, nor does it hint at good logistics. quite simply we cut wood into little peices, not quite sure where the concertina, and feilds of fire come into play in arboriculture but hey different strokes.


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## Frans (May 3, 2004)

*some quick thoughts*

Master Blaster:
I have read through your ground workers guide and found it to be instructive/ informative and usefull to the point where I would like to make it available to my helpers.

I do have a few quick thoughts
1. When reading this I realized that it is a whole lotta info.
Can you catagorize each operation using topic headings?
If the volume is broken down it will be easier to refer to each section and discuss each operation during the training process.
2. On Item 2: Are you mixing the jobs of crew groundman with the job of crew leader? I am refering to stocking items like replacement clothes, wasp spray, maps etc.
Prehaps a better suggestion would be to have the groundman(women) make a list of desired/needed items and see to it that the suggestions are submitted AFTER work and are listened to.
3. (I am jumping around a bit) On item 4 PPE is required and should be made available to the crew. The groundman CAN refuse to work if it is not supplied, but it is NOT the responsibilty of the groundman to supply these items.
4. Item 7, Calling the customers is not the responsibility of the groundmen but of the crew leader or owner or scheduler.
5. Item 14: Prehaps include that appropriate clothing MUST be worn at all times. (you might want to add no sandels, open toed shoes)
6. I like item 21, good thinking to add this, very important
7. Item 25, Raking methods are different with every crew (beyond the "stupid" methods) and the groundman should learn how the others want it done. "When in Rome do as the Romans do".
Also you do not cover how to operate a blower, when to operate a blower (not when sweeping needs to be done first). I think 25 is a basic skill set that so many folks just dont know how to do. Have you ever seen someone work a blower and take a whole lotta time and still have a dirty street?
8. Opinions vary on how to send up a saw. Huskys have a choke handle that can snag and brake off if the saw is sent up using the top handle as the attachment, but sometimes I like to have the saw come up so the bar is ready to insert in a cut (bigger saws)
9. Item 30, this is an art, roping and you have done a good job of briefly explaining it.
Keeping the jobs seperated, cutter and rope man is a good idea, but sometimes not practical, maybe stress common sense here as well in working together.
10. Did you stress keeping ALL ropes free and clear. Not walking on the ropes. Re-flaking the bull ropes, climbers rope every chance you get?
these are just quick thoughts...

Thanks for taking the time to compile this.
Frans


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## Jumper (May 3, 2004)

I would add to the first paragraph, Show up for work on time, rested and sober. Nothing like working with someone that is half asleep because they spent all night on their SONY *********** or whatever. They too are a hazard.


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 3, 2004)

a good young groundie..shouldn't mind driving the crew home ,on a friday night after we've been to the pub ..we like to occasionaly stop off at our favorite watering hole on a frieday,especialy after a long hard week ..we only stay for a couple of hours..so the groundie shouldntmind not drinking and driveing us home


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## MasterBlaster (May 3, 2004)

Yes Frans, it IS a lot of info to absorb. I organized it like a day at work, as Mike M suggested.
If I am mixing up the jobs of a groundie and a crew leader it is only because I feel ALL groundies should be potential crewleaders, even if they don't have the title. If you act like a crewleader, then you will probably BECOME a crewleader. At the very least you will be an EXCELLENT GROUNDMAN.
Concerning raking, I will challenge ANYONE ANYTIME to do it more efficiently than I have outlined.
I added your suggestions. Thanks!

Jumper, I DID leave the 'rested' part out. It's in now.

Wiley, I think the term kill zone re-enforces the seriousness and danger involved when working in this area. But I will change it if enough members think it's not appropriate.

Phew! Is this thing EVER gonna get done?


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## wiley_p (May 3, 2004)

MB I agree with your principle in using kill zone I think that it should be called the hole, dz whatever that sounds mellow, but i totally beleive in conveying the harsh realities of a mistake in our line of work. I mean really isnt life just one big kill zone, especially for the average moron running around us with their heads firmly planted up their arse?


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## MasterBlaster (May 3, 2004)

I don't like the rule that makes any submission the property of TCI. I don't think I'm gonna be so quick to submit.

Hmmmmmm...


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## a_lopa (May 3, 2004)

give em nothin mb unless there is a fee comin your way


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## MasterBlaster (May 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by aussie_lopa _
> *give em nothin mb unless there is a fee comin your way *




Well, they pay $100. I have a publisher friend that thinks I could do better. Make it into a booklet form... and pics, maybe expound a little... or, not.

I dunno. :alien:


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## MasterBlaster (May 3, 2004)

I can dig that.

Just as long as I get to keep it as my own.


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## jkrueger (May 3, 2004)

*copy right*

The copy right should be yours. If they have an agreement that says other tell them that you plan to use it for the industry. And perhaps don't give them the complet list. Paraphrase the items.

You should be able to do both.

Jack


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## murphy4trees (May 4, 2004)

> When raking, start at the outermost perimeter, and work in an ever-diminishing circle toward the chipper. Do not make 'little piles' of brush or rakings... employ advanced raking techniques. Do not bust the rake handle; either use your boots to advance larger piles toward the chipper, or place the brush on a tarp. Don't leave rakes lying on the ground to be stepped on. Prop them up against something. Do not rake an area under a roof that still has to be blown off. Strive to rake only once.



How about:
When raking, Strive to rake only once, start at the outermost perimeter, and rake in one direction, usually toward the truck. Do not make little piles. As the line of rakings gets too heavy to move easily with the rake, pull the line in to a small pile, pick it up by hand for big sticks or for smaller stuff, pull it onto the rake (tines up) and take it to the truck or put it on a tarp. Then keep moving in the same direction. This prevents cleaning up the last little bit of many piles. When the truck is up hill it is sometimes easier to rake downhill onto a tarp or can, then carry the load back up to the truck. Whatever you do , don't rake haphazardly over here and then over there, which will lead to raking the same area two or more times. Have a plan, start on the outside and move in one direction... The same basic principle of moving in one direction holds true for using a blower. Always blow away from the house. When using a rake and blower together, especially on pavement, the raker should work ahead of the blower, moving the bigger material that would slow down the blower, and not worry about getting the lighter material that the blower can quickly and easily move. Always pull hangers and blow off the roof, and pick up the big stcks and brush in any area before raking.
Copyright 2004 Daniel Murphy all rights reserved...

How's that????

That may sound a little wordy, but efficient raking is a huge part of the groundman's job, and is worth the time to explain it...

If you are serious about publishing this, and I think it is a good idea, then I think it ought to be a shared copyright for everyone that contributed..
then again if you ask me real nice I might let you have it.


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## jkrueger (May 4, 2004)

*publishing*

..., the mag may be interested in publishing the small booklet for the industry. It would be good marketing $ and a strong show of deep interest in et'al.

I don't think you will have to DTP it your self. There are many companies who would like to have their name on it, especialy if it is going to be of value to everyone they do biz with. (hint)

Best,
Jack


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## Kneejerk Bombas (May 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *
> Concerning raking, I will challenge ANYONE ANYTIME to do it more efficiently than I have outlined.
> *



We have several very large tough tarps. Remove the big limbs, drag the tarps to the chipper, dump the contents on the chute. You almost don't need a rake.


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## murphy4trees (May 4, 2004)

> You almost don't need a rake.



That's cause you don't work with big Jon.... he has a disorder.... something like excessive compulsive... he's gotta get EVERY little dead stick.. On friday we deadwooded two oaks that were in bad shape... I went back yesterday for the clean up and the lady actually complained about ALL THE LITTLE STICKS EVERYWHERE...
Until I explained to her.. the fact thast they were on the ground means that they are no longer in the tree and that required some amazing athletic abilities to walk every limb and reach them all.. There are probably only a couple of hundred climbers in the world that can do that...

Here's the after pic of the two trees.. I did the one on the left and Jon did the one on the right... Mine was actually in worse shape... tough to tell from the pic or even in person, but Jon walked to every tip of his tree, while I knocked out all the major deadwood and walked one limb and picked a few 2-4" limbs out with a polesaw... Took us each about the same time...

I have to admit that the only timew I feel intimidated while in a tree is while he's watching me... kinda funny after 23 years of climbing trees...


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## a_lopa (May 4, 2004)

why no tower?all that technology


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

Alright, I've a brand-new 7/32 file to send to whoever can spot the TWO new sentences I've added.


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## MasterBlaster (May 7, 2004)

*Forgive this shameful bump...*

Nick Araya sent me my first splittail, and I like it.

No more cutting my climbing line when my friction hitch gets worn.

Iz this progress???


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## MasterBlaster (May 9, 2004)

So has anyone gotten any feedback from yur groundies about this?


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## jkrueger (May 9, 2004)

*Looking*

... for a 'groundy' that can be willing to read and follow the job description. Seriously, looking for some one who is interested in tree pruning and not trimming. OK, an occasional TD, and not necessary.

Thought that the brillance of the DOC might even make things clear for me and it has. Now to find my kinda person.

Great work guys,
Jack


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## MasterBlaster (May 9, 2004)

So who's gonna start the "How To Be an Excellent Climber" thread?


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## TreeJunkie (May 9, 2004)

Can someone please translate the document to spanish. Most of my groundies can't read english very well.


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## MasterBlaster (May 9, 2004)

Uhhhhhhh...


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## Jumper (May 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *So who's gonna start the "How To Be an Excellent Climber" thread? [ *




The most junior wanna be you can find, preferably one with an ego and mouth the size of Texas and the brain of an ant!


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## Nickrosis (May 9, 2004)

Why is everyone e-mailing me to do this?


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## Nickrosis (May 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Can someone please translate the document to spanish. Most of my groundies can't read english very well. *


That's a lot to ask! Stumper could probably do a much better job, but here's a stab for the first point:

Llegue para el trabajo a la hora, descansado, y calme. Sea seguro. Si usted no puede venir, llama tan pronto como usted puede. No salga una tripulación sin ayuda sin alguna notificación previa. Empaque un almuerzo y sea preparado para el trabajo. Mantenga la higiene personal buena -- usted sudará, así que utiliza desodorante. Coma un desayuno bueno, y cuidar de su rutina de cuarto de baño antes usted llega. Traiga lo que usted necesita, y no depende de ir a una tienda.


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

So shoot me.

Here's a version which is mostly just a re-format.&nbsp; I took a few liberties with the text.

Glen

[edit: removed attachment as it was superseded and to clear up space on the server]


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

Assuming it's okay, and maybe to facilitate looking it over in a mobile manner, here're the odd pages.

[edit: removed attachment as it was superseded and to clear up space on the server]


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

And here're the even pages.

Just print out the odds first (the first page will be blank, so if you have your printer set up like I do mine, that blank page won't be ejected -- place one on the bottom of the output pile in that case).&nbsp; Then, pick up the 3-page stack and place them back into the hopper, butt-end first, to be printed on the other side with the even pages file.

The result will be a pile of three pages, printed both sides, which can be folded in the middle, forming a little book.

Let me know what y'all think.

Glen

[edit: removed attachment as it was superseded and to clear up space on the server]


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

Hey Glen that's pretty cool. Thanks for taking the time to do it!

Is there a way you can do it where there will be a title on the cover page?


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## jkrueger (May 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Can someone please translate the document to spanish. Most of my groundies can't read english very well. *



Very important to have this in a Spanish version. Really. Nick are you the one. I don't know anyone who can translate. How about the rest of you?

I think that the 10 Commandments are all that is required for a climber. 

And add the special 11th: Thou shalt not screw thyself.

Jack


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## Stumper (May 10, 2004)

Good Job Nick. I wouldn't mind translating it but things are going to have to slow down first.-How does Dec. sound?


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Hey Glen that's pretty cool. Thanks for taking the time to do it!
> 
> Is there a way you can do it where there will be a title on the cover page? *


Sure.&nbsp; Make a cover page however you want it, or describe it sufficiently for me.

Don't forget to proof the document and let me know what changes to make.&nbsp; When I'm done, I'll put it up as I did, in PDF, and if you want, I'll give you the RTF "original" as well.

Glen


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

*Thanks Glen*

Nothing fancy on the cover, just the title. Go for it!

And lay the RTF on me!


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

*Bump for Glen*


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

I added a title, changed the heading of section 1, pulled the sleeping bit out of section 4 and put it in section 6, separated some ideas into separate points in section 9 (the last point could almost be moved up into section 8), made a clarifying (to me) alteration to a point in section 11, exploded section 21 into more points, combined the last two points in section 26 into one point, changed the heading of section 29 and moved the last point from it up to section 28, changed the last section from being a "point" to just a paragraph, and finally, modified the authorship line and included a date.

The reason for the points in the first place was to facilitate re-organization and to help the ideas appear in a ready-to-locate manner.

Here's a ZIP file with:<dl><dt>handbook.doc<dd>RTF file (I hope your MS stuff can use it)<dt>handbook.pdf<dd>PDF version (should look and print the same on any computer system, hence <i>Portable</i> Document Format)<dt>handbook_book.pdf<dd>use this for printing the booklet if your printer can automatically print both sides of a page<dt>handbook_book_odds.pdf<dd>odd pages for manually printing book<dt>handbook_book_evens.pdf<dd>even pages for manually printing book</dl>The instructions for manually printing the booklet are to print the "odd" pages file, then pick up the stack, flip it lengthwise, stick it back into the feed hopper, and print the "even" pages.&nbsp; The whole stack can then be folded as-is to form the booklet.&nbsp; A long-reach stapler would be nice for binding the pages in the center.

The RTF file has the odd blank line added or deleted to make page breaks work some better.&nbsp; If you modify something, you may have to address that matter as well.

Enjoy, and don't hesitate to let me know if you need any further help with the project.

I just added the date to the RTF and made all the PDFs and the ZIP file anew in a matter of moments using the most excellent tools that came with my Linux distribution.

Glen


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

Uhh, I didn't do it right. I'll try again.


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

Butch, you'll <i>never</i> get that $20 bill to attach...

What?&nbsp; Are you having troubles with the ZIP file or something?

Glen


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

I'm getting the pages all mixed up. The first way you did it was easier to do.

I'll figure it out.


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

Butch, I did it the same way again.&nbsp; Didn't I?

Glen


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

There were 5 options to work with, and three looked the best. I figured out the one that prints it in regular format, I just gotta figure out the other ones.:Monkey:


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## glens (May 10, 2004)

Option paralysis.

Have a beer and mull it over.&nbsp; I just printed the odd pages file, picked up the complete stack of three pages and endo'd them back into the printer, then printed the even pages file onto their backsides.&nbsp; Then I picked up the stack of three pages again and folded them half in two towards me.&nbsp; I'm thumbing through a nice new little booklet...

Out of curiosity, how's your MS do with that RTF file?

Glen


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by glens _
> *Option paralysis.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how's your MS do with that RTF file?
> ...



Oh, it does just fine. It's me. I'll dog them hatches!


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## TreeJunkie (May 10, 2004)

Thanks Glens, and you especially Mb, you've both done a real nice job. I can't wait for the spanish version which should be coming out some time this coming winter.


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## MasterBlaster (May 10, 2004)

I asked a friend of mine in Mexico if they could translate. They said they didn't have the vocabulary. 

It looks cool in that 'lil pamphlet version!


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## glens (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Hey Glen that's pretty cool. Thanks for taking the time to do it!
> 
> Is there a way you can do it where there will be a title on the cover page? *


Hey Butch.

Here's a horse I'd like to <i>give</i> you.

...

You notice <i>what</i> about his teeth?

hahaha


I noticed you said not to arrive drunk.&nbsp; You didn't say anything against being stoned.&nbsp; Is there a particular reason for that?

Hope <s>so</s>not,
Cheech


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## Nickrosis (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Thanks Glens, and you especially Mb, you've both done a real nice job. I can't wait for the spanish version which should be coming out some time this coming winter. *


I just signed up for Advanced Spanish Grammar and Composition I for this fall since I don't want to stop learning that language!

It'll probably cost an arm and a leg for just 3 undergraduate credits, though.....

I will try to get this translated as soon as I can, though. There are a lot of tools for easing the process, but you have to proofread it with your brain on so you don't let stupid things go by! It's pretty funny if you translate something into English from another language on babelfish.altavista.com or www.freetranslation.com.


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## MasterBlaster (May 11, 2004)

*I figured it out*

Hey Glen, you got the last three out of order. Thats what was messing me up last night... check it out;

Here's a ZIP file with:

handbook.doc
RTF file (I hope your MS stuff can use it)
handbook.pdf
PDF version (should look and print the same on any computer system, hence Portable Document Format)
handbook_book.pdf
use this for printing the booklet if your printer can automatically print both sides of a page
handbook_book_odds.pdf
odd pages for manually printing book
handbook_book_evens.pdf
even pages for manually printing book


Actually, the odds and the evens are 3 and 4. THAT was messing up my printing.

It's cool. I've made up enough pamphlets to give to every groundie I work with. If just ONE of them live up to it, I'll be a happy camper.

Anyone else tried the booklet format?


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## glens (May 11, 2004)

Good to hear you got it to work and that you like it, Butch!

Strictly, the order of the files in the archive is:

<tt><font face="fixed">bash-2.05a$ unzip -l handbook.zip
Archive:&nbsp; handbook.zip
&nbsp; Length&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Date&nbsp;&nbsp; Time&nbsp; &nbsp; Name
&nbsp;--------&nbsp; &nbsp; ----&nbsp;&nbsp; ----&nbsp; &nbsp; ----
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; 05-10-04 20:17&nbsp;&nbsp; handbook/
&nbsp; &nbsp; 33806&nbsp; 05-10-04 20:15&nbsp;&nbsp; handbook/handbook.pdf
&nbsp; &nbsp; 50688&nbsp; 05-10-04 20:15&nbsp;&nbsp; handbook/handbook_book.pdf
&nbsp; &nbsp; 28222&nbsp; 05-10-04 20:15&nbsp;&nbsp; handbook/handbook_book_evens.pdf
&nbsp; &nbsp; 31138&nbsp; 05-10-04 20:15&nbsp;&nbsp; handbook/handbook_book_odds.pdf
&nbsp; &nbsp; 94002&nbsp; 05-10-04 20:11&nbsp;&nbsp; handbook/handbook.doc
&nbsp;--------&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -------
&nbsp;&nbsp; 237856&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6 files
bash-2.05a$</font></tt>

So we're both wrong...&nbsp; The reason I gave them in the order I did was that was the order they were shown in the software I was using at the moment, but in it the sort order is variable.

Funny, though, I'd have thought the file names (with descriptions that match them) would be informative enough to prevent problems.&nbsp; That'll learn me to assume anything around here.&nbsp; <tt>:</tt><tt>)</tt>

Glen


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## MasterBlaster (May 18, 2004)

So has this helped anybody, or whut?


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## kowens (Jun 18, 2004)

mb you might want to put this in your hand book


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## wpbgent (Dec 11, 2005)

Maybe add a part that mentions checking the chipper feed tray for saws and or cones and insert the picture of the husky that got "chipped" someone on here posted...


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## Big A (Dec 13, 2005)

As an excellent groundie, I feel that a groundies best attribute should be a stout pair of boots to kick some of these idle climbers butts up the trees, God they :censored: me off sometimes


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## skwerl (Dec 13, 2005)

Since this thread has been gutted by several original participants since first being written, I figured I could repost the article being discussed. This file is what it looked like on April 29, 2004. There were some tweaks afterwards, but nothing major.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_29222.php


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## hi-jacker (Dec 13, 2005)

My dad was a climber most of his life and trained me as a "brush monkey" first, then as a climber. I only worked for him and his company on weekends and during the summers while I was in highschool, so I never got to be a great climber. I did become a pretty decent groundman, however, and anyone who has worked for his dad knows he's harder on you than anyone else on the crew.

I'm now 63 and we just started using chippers when I left the business...we loaded all the brush and hauled it to a dump. In my day, I was a pretty good loader and could swing a pretty mean machete. As anyone who has loaded knows, the load has to be far enough forward to keep it from being lost on the freeway, but far enough back to make it easy to unload by backing up fast and hitting the brakes. My dad was not happy if he had to make more than one run backwards to unload brush from the truck. 

Sorry for being so long-winded...us old guys do that.


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## vharrison2 (Dec 14, 2005)

Welcome to the site hi-jacker! That is a great article, isn't it?


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## hi-jacker (Dec 14, 2005)

This is agreat site...brings back memories.


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 14, 2005)

Hello Hi-jacker,

It sounds like you learned from the same guy that taught me treework. The first job that did was in about 1966. Us groundies had to drag the limbs to the curb and cut off the brush using Sandvik bow saws. Marv would hollar at us from the tree if we started to make a hay-pile on the trailer instead of a box-pile. Those early lessons have served me well over the years. 

http://tinyurl.com/9zxzx


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