# Any advice on loading heavy logs by hand?



## gorman (Aug 13, 2005)

I dropped a bunch of huge red oak today and the lady wants the wood but she also said I can help myself. I got a few days open this week so I figure it's firewood time. Any tricks of the trade to save a young, strapping lad's back?


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## BostonBull (Aug 13, 2005)

If there is a tree overyou you could setup a block and tackle system (pulley) to raise thje logs off the ground then lower them into the truck
'

OR

Lift with your legs.


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## murphy4trees (Aug 13, 2005)

*don't do it*

You might call this advice how not to lift wood..

LEAVE IT WHERE IT LAYS

and use your time and energy to go sell some treework. 

my 2c


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## a_lopa (Aug 13, 2005)

sound advice  ive taken your other motto this year daniel.


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 13, 2005)

If you need it ............get it!!!


See if you can cut the would on site and get a splitter there!


It is a lot easier to move the small wood. 

Also the wood will be ready to roll!!!


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## Ross Turner (Aug 14, 2005)

i agree cut the logs smaller or dont move them at all.


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## pbtree (Aug 14, 2005)

Cut 'em up an dmove 'em out...


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## mikecross23 (Aug 14, 2005)

cheap labor; mark up price a little. Sit in shade and drink lemonade.


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## bushman (Aug 14, 2005)

IF the fire wood is for yourself pick it up.heating fuel is going to be out the roof this winter ,with regular gas at 2.50 a gal.by winter gas will 4.oo a gal .i think its going to be a good firewood selling year.i would pick it up a truck load leave the rest.


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## a_lopa (Aug 14, 2005)

GICON said:


> I agree with Muphy. Firewood is a waste of time and money. If you want wood that bad call up a local tree company and have them drop you off a couple of logs on the way back to their yard.




wernt you all for firewood sales the other week?


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## a_lopa (Aug 14, 2005)

GICON said:


> Yes but I have a log loader. Handloading would be too unproductive. I am for firewood sales.....its still a waste of time and money though.




yeah i dont touch it myself,i know a guy that does alot and still doesnt do great


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## newb (Aug 14, 2005)

You guys missed an important part of his question. He said " young bucks back". I used to carry an 8' plank in my truck when I was a vulture and I would roll the pieces into my truck. Its cheap and kind of easy.


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## stehansen (Aug 14, 2005)

When I first got into the tree business I saved every peice of wood for firewood. I soon learned that all that gets you is a big pile of wood that people aren't intrested in unless you can deliver and because it is mixed species they want it cheap. I soon learned that you can be a lot more efficient on the job site if you don't have to worry about separating wood and chips in the truck and can just throw everything in the truck as it becomes available. I have a 'carry all' that is a trailer that will straddle over a peice of wood and has two chain hoists built in for lifting. I have hauled 3 1/2 foot cedar rounds 15 feet long to a saw mill. They won't pay me anything but it doesn't cost anything to take it to them. That is still pretty slow as it takes about a hour to make the trip to the saw mill and back.


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## Dadatwins (Aug 14, 2005)

Firewood really is not a big money maker in my opinion unless you have the storage space and can do do volume sales. I had some success years ago selling to bakeries and restaurants that used wood fired stoves for cooking and baking, they were not so concerned for similiar size and appearance of wood, as long as it burned hot and they did not run out. As for saving your back, without a loader agree splitting the wood on site is easiest and safest method for moving it out.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 14, 2005)

The value of firewood depends on where you live. Rhode Island prices may be quite high. Around here Oak sells for around $325 a cord, but down in Chicago it's worth a lot more (more people and money, less trees). 
How are you going to split it? If you are going to do it by hand anyway, you might as well break it up into hunks you can lift, or even completely split it all up, then it's ready to sell or use. That saves trying to lift huge pieces.
If time is a factor, and you want to split it later, try to use a low trailer and a ramp. Just roll them on and off.
To make money on firewood, you need to handle the wood as few times as possible. Stacking the wood instead of just piling it, or handling it one extra time can make the difference between profit and loss.
Also try to get paid for cutting up and removing the wood from the site. You can charge the job out by the hour, and do the wood removal on the clock.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 14, 2005)

Lots of good points here, but the point keeps coming around that it's not worth the money, unless your business is firewood. We're assuming your business is tree work.

I have had great success in giving it away free, but this involves a strategy. If done right, your firewood finds a good home and you have unpaid assistance in getting it offsite. 

The strategy begins with perfecting your art of making the firewood, which involves three critical, though easy-to-master details. First, flush-cut all laterals. If you leave weird stubs and odd protrusions the wood is harder to split, stacks funny and the bigger pieces won't roll. This makes the wood less appealing on the receiver's end.

Second, make sure all the pieces are cut 90 degrees to the direction of the limb. Weird angles make it so the piece won't stand up on end when being split, making it a major hassle, even with a hydraulic splitter.

Third, make consistent lengths. 16" is considered standard length, so set your intent to make them all standard. When diameters get bigger across than the standard length, it's harder to gauge. I have a scribe mark from the tip of my bar, 16" on down for quick reference. When you have big blocks to knock off something 30 or 36" across you tend to cut longer. In other words, longer _looks_ shorter when the wood is wider. If you're cutting off 20" blocks, once split, these pieces won't stack well because they're too long with regards top the rest of the pile. Nobody at the splitting end wants to re-cut something you've already cut.

Attention to these details will not cost you that much extra time, and the quality and consistency of the firewood blocks is much more valuable to the end user. They are more likely to want firewood from you again in the future. You only need a handful of these guys on your call list and you will save yourself countless hours moving wood by hand. At the same time, cutting off humps and stubs and angled ends will add to the amount of chunkity chunks in the waste, but little pieces are your tradeoff for having someone gladly and happily move out your big blocks.

Note that in this approach, YOU are not the one splitting. You're just assuring that the firewood length pieces get moved off your jobsite swiftly, spontaneously and happily. If my guys have to come back for a third load, I'll give them a twenty for gas money. I express how important it is to me that they make money with the wood. You're on _their_ side and dedicate yourself to their success. You can even help them market the wood; when your clients ask where to get split firewood, you pass along their name. This costs you nothing. YOUR money is in the time saved and being able to finish and move on to the next job. 

This will 'save the back of a young buck' and is a win/win relationship, sustainable over time without the investment of money. It's easier to make a phone call than it is to load and haul tons of wood. You just have to commit to making good wood.


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## treesurgeon (Aug 14, 2005)

in order to make money and not waste time, you are either in the wood business or the tree business. there is no way to make any money if you have to buy wood, process it and then sell it. and if your a tree business you probably dont have the time to screw around with firewood. most tree businesses are equipped for tree care and if you are dicking around with some cheap firewood, who's running all your expensive tree equipment?
were better off just cutting the trees and then selling the logs wholesale. after a job, sell them on the way back to the shop.


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## priest (Aug 14, 2005)

Very good advice from Tree Machine.

I've got a guy giving me $30 a rick to pick it up onsite, cut to length but unsplit. I personally think he's crazy, but he's been doing it for a year and hasn't complained yet. I think he sells it roadside in small bundles instead of by the rick. I'm not going to be the one to break the news to him that he could surely find free wood if he just ran through the yellow pages under "tree service". 
I doubt you'll find a deal like this-I got lucky and it surely won't last forever. Give it away if you can and be happy about it.


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## priest (Aug 14, 2005)

*giving away wood*

Does anyone else worry about letting uninsured third parties move wood for you? How about you, Tree Machine? 
I've wondered about it, and usually try to get the wood next to the road so its not so much on private property. But on backyard removals where you can drive into the backyard, its a lot faster to pile it there and let the firewood guys come pick it up. 
Saves a lot of work, but it's a risk, perhaps unprofessional, and maybe even unethical.
Probably better to find a regular, insured firewood crew, even if you have to pay for their gas money-on jobs where they will be working in the clients yard.


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## Old Monkey (Aug 14, 2005)

So few posters on this thread have responded to the original question about loading big wood. He doesn't have to haul the wood, he wants to. He's looking for tip to save his back. 

First of all, I suggest cutting the round in 16"s then turning them and ripping them into halves or quarters. Let dinosaur juice do the work I always say. Then lift with your legs, head level eyes facing forward. Pick some smaller stuff up first to warm yourself up. If you take a break warm yourself up again. A sweat soaked shirt against your back can give you a chill after you've sat for a bit. It sounds weird but I take dry t-shirts to wear after breaks so I don't get chilled and pull something. 

You're smart to watch out after your back. A bad back is a gift that keeps on giving over a lifetime.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 14, 2005)

I see where you're coming from, Monkey, but ripping rounds into quads creates huge amounts of bulky mozzerella cheeze if you rip with the grain. Ripping 90 degrees to the grain (a la milling a log) takes so much more time. Certainly a quarter round is gonna be 1/4 the weight of a full round, but you've got time into the cutting of the quarters and more time into cleaning up the mess that wasn't there to begin with. And quarters don't roll very well. Of course, sometimes with fat rounds, there's little other choice than to quarter them.

As far as liability, there's always that possibility. Unprofessional? Usually my clients are really happy to know that the wood's not going to a landfill. Most of the time it never comes up as an issue. Unethical? Since when is recycling unethical? How is giving away something of value unethical? Most people call that a 'gift'. Maybe your client would perceive you as doing less work than what you're getting paid for? Well, they're paying you to do good work and get the mess cleaned up. I simply put on my estimate, "Will arrange the removal of the wood and do a complete cleanup, power blowing, etc..."

Will arrange removal of the wood. Put it in writing. You're either going to move it off premises or someone else is. Those are the only choices we have.


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## sharpstikman (Aug 14, 2005)

what about giving the wood to a church they are always helping people in need . that good deed will come back to you, god bless


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## treesurgeon (Aug 14, 2005)

cut the wood 16" and roll it up ramps. the longer the ramp the easier. try in combo with a log roller to get the odd shapes up the ramp.


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## Porkchopper (Aug 14, 2005)

Log Dolly. Will haul 1500lbs.


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## woodchux (Aug 15, 2005)

I roll the logs to the truck or trailer , then use some of the smaller ones as a step up for the big wood. Load the heavy stuff first, or it will seem twice as heavy.


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## CoreyTMorine (Aug 15, 2005)

I do about 10 cord/year, and only for... well i dont know why i do it, firewood is a tough way to make a living. As for saving my back i have had good luck using a pulp wood hook, it saves me from bending over so far. Roll/throw everything over to the truck, put the rollers onto a tarp, then quarter them. when done just roll up the tarp and dump the saw dust/ spagetti in a chip pile samewhere.

but like a couple other folks have said "don't want to handle it too much, the wood might wear out." if you can split it onsite and sell the wood green do that.

if you have a low trailer with a good ramp, and do not have a dump truck, rolling the big stuff onto the trailer is a good way to move it.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 15, 2005)

treesurgeon said:


> in order to make money and not waste time, you are either in the wood business or the tree business. there is no way to make any money if you have to buy wood, process it and then sell it. and if your a tree business you probably dont have the time to screw around with firewood. most tree businesses are equipped for tree care and if you are dicking around with some cheap firewood, who's running all your expensive tree equipment?


The fact is tree work is seasonal. There are days when you don't have enough work. These are the days the crew can split wood.
Most jobs require the wood be hauled away, and splitting can be done off season. If you are in a market where you're getting 3 or 4 hundred dollars a cord, how could it not be profitable?


treesurgeon said:


> were better off just cutting the trees and then selling the logs wholesale. after a job, sell them on the way back to the shop.



We will also keep any saw logs whole, to sell to the mill. You get as much, and often more money than firewood and there's much less labor.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 15, 2005)

Good Points; 
Bill'em Dano!

If the splitter is at the house; i'd survey how big the stuff is ,and if it isn't too heavy, if i can use the length of a log before altering to help lever it's own self up/over. Sometimes cutting length just makes more pieces to lift, and removes counterbalancing length to stretch over pivot of trailer side, ramp etc. to use to your benefit.

On big stumpy stuff, sometimes sliding slick base up ramp rather than rolling is easier. Whenever possible, find pivot and lean / don't lift; ie. sit down to push up, rather than busting back pulling up to go up.

You will find the below listed in some knot books as a 'knot' called a parbuckle. Very nice for right occasion. can get rolling 2/1 from any source. We used truck with line strung trough wide set hooks or rings. Not tying the truck end down, allows self adjustment by riding back and forth freely through hooks/rings/or just Reese/frame hitch. Prefer wider set hooks, to single hitch for the truck pull line, cuz wider set balances spar on other end better, so tie to trailer wide too.

You can increase the power by providing ramps to pull up with parbuckle. Some place a hand crank or even electric wench on the opposite trailer side to power this, but then that places another pull on trailer towards flipping. So here ramps double duty as helping the winch and parbuckle, and wedging against trailer flipping! This is especially true if wench is mounted 3'high to give more leverage to flip.


Some Wench Rules


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## notahacker (Aug 15, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> I have had great success in giving it away free, but this involves a strategy.
> .



My home has an acre and a half. I give free firewood away all of the time. When I see someone comming in the yard to get some I go out to say hello. They ususlly ask how do you get all of this? A perfect time to promot my business! I hand them a magnetic business card and let them know I do tree trimming and removals. They are happy for the wood and I get business back to me. I make way more by just giving it away and promoting what I love to do. I didn't get in to climbing trees because I want to split and sell firewood. :blob4:


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## Tree Machine (Aug 15, 2005)

Good point Notahacka. I have found that, too. Giving away firewood often leads to treework in the future. You're giving them something of value. It's not unusual for them to feel the need to somehow return the favor. Either they'll hire you, or they'll tell a friend.

Spidey's parbuckle is a nice technique to have in the bag. Before I purchased my log arches, that was the way i'd get a saw log up over the side rails of the dual-axel trailer (with ramps). The log arch is about a kazillion times more swift in that regard. If I've got a monster log, and let's assume it's not worthy of lumbering, I'll gauge the dice-up, load-up, clean-up time of making chunks on site against just getting the arch and lifting the whole log up and out, and delivering it to a remote spot for dice-up later. I learned that the whole tree can be going amazingly well, but once you get into that big trunk the job can shift into super slow-mo. The big arch has made working alone much more possible as arching a log is a one-man job.

That's a different story, though. Our topic here is lifting wood without any special equipment.


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## stehansen (Aug 15, 2005)

I learned that the whole tree can be going amazingly well, but once you get into that big trunk the job can shift into super slow-mo.

Isn't that the truth. Not only does it go into slow-mo but everyone gets real tired and you stay in slow-mo.


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## Ekka (Aug 16, 2005)

Thats why I bought a mini loader that also stump grinds  

Now the log is the fast mode and lots of fun!


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## Tree Machine (Aug 16, 2005)

*Woodchux' suggestion*

You could at least throw down a picture for us.

Still, we're talking more to the fancy equipmentless crowd. The guys new to the industry, truck and trailer guys looking for tips on how to get those steenkin heavy hunks up into the back of whatever is hauling them.

If you're working alone, it might be best to quad the rounds and toss them in. If you have a second person, you can roll a rather large round up onto a pickup bed using nothing more than what you've got onsite.

Woodchux mentioned this method earlier in this thread, and I'm supplementing that with a cartoon picture. 

I still suggest knocking off odd forks and stub remnants as it makes it easier to roll these biggies on and off, as well as doing a favor for the end user.

Use blocks of downed wood to create a stair step. Two to three blocks of differing heights and the wedge cut at the bottom. Most of the time I have a firewood guy come to pick up the wood, and almost always I will help. This is usually how we start.


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## KentuckySawyer (Aug 16, 2005)

If you're loading onto a trailer, some 8ft steel ramps are great. I've rolled 30" Maple rounds onto my trailer sans help this way. It was easier to maneuver then this way than by trying to dolly them up the ramps. A dolly is a good investment though. A used ball cart, which I think someone already pictured is even better.
I've seen "mini-cranes" that you could bolt to your pickup bed or trailer frame. They're powered by a hand pumped hydraulic cylinder and can lift at least 300lbs. I think Harbor Freight might carry them.
I guy I know supported his family for years by loading trees into his 77 Chevy 3/4 ton. If anyone knows back pain, its Woody. Well, he had a bright idea on how to load a spar into his pickup. He backed up to it and flopped the whole thing into the bed. To say that it dented the bed is understatement. Quarter pound Woody.


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## KentuckySawyer (Aug 16, 2005)

Check it out. My back already feels better.

http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/74569.htm


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## protreecare (Aug 16, 2005)

*how I load*

I load logs with my own two hands with help of my Prentice 120E behind my 1995 F-800 with dump bed. This is just my two cents.


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## kiwiclimber (Aug 17, 2005)

I have put a tee piece into the hyd line that feeds the under body hoist this in turn powers a ram on a crane at the rear of the truck it will easily lift a ton and saves my back.will try and post photos of the set up.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 17, 2005)

Love to see all that, but this thread has a title, and the use of hydraulics isn't loading heavy logs by hand.

Not everyone has a grapple truck, a prentice loader, a log arch or a bobcat with forks. There's no question that the use of hydraulics is the way to go to make heavy lifts, but guys starting out, who want to save their backs until they can afford a piece of hydraulic equipment ar elooking for sound advice on how to do this with what they've got.

How about some ropes and pulley ideas. Gin pole? Good 'ol leverage and mechanical advantage. The Egyptians built the pyramids without hydraulics. I like the idea of a boat winch style of lifter. They're available and relatively inexpensive. I would like to see a beefed up version of KentuckeySawyers' armature with a 2-speed winch, like so:


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## woodchux (Aug 17, 2005)

Here's a link to a "pickup truck crane" for $82.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1647
I've got one, they work great ... just a little slow


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