# Woman killed by tree service accident



## teamtree (Oct 20, 2006)

http://www.news-banner.com/index/news-app/story.5234/menu./sec./home.




why would you let someone stand that close to the target tree

what does ansi say?


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## Ekka (Oct 21, 2006)

Dead link, this is the message that comes up.

Template Error: syntax error (Template: home.default.tpl, Line 1, Column 0)


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## l2edneck (Oct 21, 2006)

Heres the Link 

appears she was on the porch


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 21, 2006)

It appears there's going to be a lawsuit and Yoder Tree Service is out of business.

Of course, there's also the outside chance of negligent homicide charges, depending on why that tree hit the porch.


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## Jumper (Oct 21, 2006)

A classic case of why to keep people out of a work site area if there is ANY remote possibilty the falling tree or parts there of are within reach. Likely this accident could have been prevented had someone taken a little more time, not to mention telling the customer to remain indoors.

"The accident occurred at 8:16 a.m"- the first job of the day, and the tree was dropped in one piece?

Maybe a GRCS would have directed the tree in the direction desired? I do not think I would have felled such a large tree without piecing it down, or if it was to be dropped, used a Goods. My 2 cents, Sad story, both for the dead and those that survived, including a ruined business and a devastated family.


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## okietreedude1 (Oct 21, 2006)

I dont understand why they felled it in the direction of the house if there was even the slightest chance it could hit it. WHy not put the tree in the road or across the yard? Of course we cant see the whole work zone, but there had to be other options.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 21, 2006)

What I am questioning, being at the scene of many storm damaged trees on homes, is why the whole porch broke off, just because part of it got hit. 
This may very well be a structural failure, combined with bad tree work.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 21, 2006)

okietreedude1 said:


> I dont understand why they felled it in the direction of the house if there was even the slightest chance it could hit it. WHy not put the tree in the road or across the yard? Of course we cant see the whole work zone, but there had to be other options.


Look at the stump, it's clearly decayed extensively. The hinge looks like the fibers are bent towards the right, and they were trying to make it fall left.


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## DDM (Oct 21, 2006)

Hmmm Why were they removing the tree in a driving rain storm?
Police, fire and EMS personnel rushed to the scene in a driving rain storm and worked feverishly to attempt to remove the woman from the collapsed porch.


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## DDM (Oct 21, 2006)

From the barber chair looks like the tree went over backwards.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 21, 2006)

DDM, you're using the term barber chair incorrectly. A barber chair would show in the log, which is mostly out of the picture.

You seem to think the rescue workers are doing tree clean up. I think they are just doing rescue work.

What's interesting is to look at is the siding on the house. It's torn down on the left, and up on the right. That tells you where the tree hit, and how poorly the roof was attached to the house.
Also notice the attic window is boarded up. Think that happen before the tree care operation? I do.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 21, 2006)

Agreed on the board up. 

Those kind of porches are often pretty flimsy. If the front posts were just a bit rotten, a good whack with a tree would do the trick.

Yeah, odd they were doing this in the rain. Emergency takedown or just in a hurry to make money?


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## begleytree (Oct 21, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> DDM, you're using the term barber chair incorrectly. A barber chair would show in the log, which is mostly out of the picture.
> 
> You seem to think the rescue workers are doing tree clean up. I think they are just doing rescue work.
> 
> ...



I don't understand this post Mike.
I agree that David applied the term incorrecty. I would have said the tree broke off the stump due to bad cut, and probably winds as well. who drops big trees in tight places in the rain? who works in the rain? only ones I know are broke, and have to, or the local climate, like PNW

but that brings me to what I don't get. what difference does it make that the roof was not attached correctly, or that a window was boarded up? nothing is to be touched regardless of the house, or income level of the client. the porch attachment makes no difference. without that tree touching it, it would still be there, and the woman alive. thats the rule. no part of any tree that a tree svc touches shall ever touch any other part of the property. I bet that outfit wishes they would have stuck a climber in the tree now, instead of just cutting it over. bet her parents, husband and children feel the same way I do. click opinions on that link. look at what taking a risk by dropping the tree cost that family, and community. It doesn't matter if her net worth was $4.36, or $4 million.
-Ralph


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## xander9727 (Oct 21, 2006)

I certain they lost money on this one. It's a shame that all you need to do tree work is a home depot chainsaw. A lot of time when you go with the lowest bidder things can go wrong. 
Realize that I'm jumping to some conclusions and making assumptions.
It's been my experience that the lower bidding companies work in any weather and try to get it done as quick as possible. 
If you put a little more money in the job you can afford to take a little more time.
I started off cheap but learned rather quickly that I wasn't taking the "expert" path.

I truly feel sorry for the woman and her friends and family.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 22, 2006)

That accident happened here in Indiana. It was all over our local television news and I heard of it from 4 of my clients before I finally read the story. They all told me she was videoing the takedown, but from the severel reports I've read, I don't really know if there's truth to that. I also heard her 2 kids were nearby, waiting for the school bus, but I didn't actually see the news cast. These details are second-hand, but consistent. If she was running a camera, you can be sure it'll surface after the investigation.

Why the tree service would not have _at least_ put a rope in the tree and anchored it out the direction they wanted it to fall.....


I believe it's just a matter of time, a few more unnecessary incidences like this, a few more untrained climbers or bystanders getting killed before our industry (here in the U.S.) becomes regulated. Wait 'til a Senator's daughter becomes part of an incident like this and watch the laws change.


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## Jumper (Oct 22, 2006)

Why the tree service would not have [U said:


> _at least_[/U] put a rope in the tree and anchored it out the direction they wanted it to fall.....
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That was my point, but it appears they showed, flashed up the saws, with the sad result.


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## smokechase II (Oct 22, 2006)

*rotten wood*

I'm going to say that I'm not sure about what I'm going to say.

How's that for a caveat? Photos and not having been there being the reasons for that.

If that is rot, look how the most of the rot is on the left side of the stump, just in the place you would need good wood to help pull the tree toward the left.

The face cut appears to be too shallow into the tree from this angle.

If that is rot;
1) Probably not a climb and section candidate,
2) Rope it maybe,
But I really think that a bucket and section it are best.

Weather doesn't just contribute with effects like the wind. It distracts and reduces concentration.

If it was a large tree, how come more of the house wasn't damaged?
Was it a limb that took out the porch or just a partially topped tree?


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## Eagle1 (Oct 22, 2006)

wow


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## rmihalek (Oct 23, 2006)

Looks like the large flat surface on the stump was the backcut. The notch on the front side is hard to see but looks to me like they directed the tree to fall to the left of the house and were successful at this. However, like a previous person replied, perhaps a large limb hit the porch and took it down.


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## Jon Sereds (Oct 23, 2006)

A porch roof attached like that could just as easily come down by itself from just the impact of the tree with the ground. No contact even necessary. An unlucky day for everyone involved. The unsettling part was reading about the screaming. Imagine hearing that.


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## Jon Sereds (Oct 23, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I don't see where a wedge was cut. Also there are lots of cut limbs on the ground and one near the stump has it's butt end away from the stump. There is the possibility that the stump is not from the tree that did the damage. It may be the tree has been moved by the tow truck for the rescue.
> 
> The attachment is enlarged from the newspaper article.



Yup, that stump looks like it was just sawn straight through.


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## jazak (Oct 25, 2006)

That should've NEVER happened. There is NO exccuse they can make for this;

1-Working in heavy rain = stupid
2-Having a company named yoder tree = stupid lol
3-Having no ropes in the tree = stupid (Even though it doesn't tell if they used a rope or not they didn't because if they had the tree would've fallen the dirrection they wanted it to go.
4-Not using a winch on a tree like that = stupid
5-Letting bystanders get to close = stupid
6-No wedge made = stupid
7-For all the other stuff they did wrong = stupid

ADD all this up and you get OUT OF BUSINESS!


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## Jumper (Oct 25, 2006)

Jazek, your comments really hit it on the head....I wanted to say more but deferred to those who have more smarts than me.

4-Not using a winch on a tree like that = stupid

Let me again extol the virtues of a GRCS. Put a rope in the tree, make a proper cut, and simply winch/pull it over in the desired direction.

Sh*t happens but this whole mess appears totally preventable.

2-Having a company named yoder tree = stupid lol

I believe this is the person's name, agree it sounds not far from yokel. Now his name is ruined. Perhaps a good reason NOT to name a company after your last name. 

1-Working in heavy rain = stupid

Good point if it was actually raining at the time of the indicident. Let's drop this SOB and go for a coffee results in tragic shortcuts.


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## Ianab (Oct 25, 2006)

> 5-Letting bystanders get to close = stupid



That should be number 1  

Hard to tell from the picture what went wrong, but the hinge wood on the stump looks wrong, maybe it failed due to rot and the tree twisted off on an angle?

Either way every OSH type manual I've read says to have bystanders twice the height of the tree away when you are felling. If that had been done it would have been embarrasing / expensive, but not fatal  

Ian


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## beowulf343 (Oct 25, 2006)

Ianab said:


> Either way every OSH type manual I've read says to have bystanders twice the height of the tree away when you are felling.
> 
> Ian


True, but is that far enough? I hate bystanders period (other than my groundies who know the risks.) I've dropped dead trees that had limbs break off and land two or even three yards over when the tree hit the ground. Broke a window across a street once due to a flying limb. If I'm up a tree piecing it down, bystanders are fine. But if I have to do any felling, I try to keep them as far away a possible-broken windows can be replaced, innocent lives cannot.


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## jazak (Oct 26, 2006)

Thanks for thge complements guys. I've been in the business since 1986 and like to make sure I know what I'm talking about before I speak. Oh btw I didn't put them in place of which is more important but as which one came to my mind.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Nov 6, 2006)

i was thinking that the Right Face was open; and Left Face closed. With fibre pull on R; that let a R pull by fibre direct into the open face; as the Left Face was closed and pushing that direction too.

That is taking the 2 fibre pulls as hinge; Right Face looks more open-face taken; Left looks kerfed or something different. Discoloration should have called for more care than usual after cutting/ inspecting face. Hard to tell if Face was center plunged thru hinge or if discoloration broke that cleanly? More pix would surely be of help!

A tragedy none the less.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Nov 7, 2006)

jazak said:


> That should've NEVER happened. There is NO exccuse they can make for this;
> 
> 1-Working in heavy rain = stupid
> 2-Having a company named yoder tree = stupid lol
> ...


How do you guys know it was raining? Couldn't the rain have started after the accident?
How do you know there wasn't a rope or winch used?
It is also entirely possible the spar and branches were pushed or dragged to facilitate rescue attempts.
To me, it looks like there was a small wedge made on the side of the stump not visible in the picture. If no notch is cut, the wood tears down the stump and stays attached to the stem.
As for letting bystanders be within two times the height of the tree, I don't tell homeowners and neighbors, within that distance, to vacate their homes while I cut down trees. Do you?


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## Monk (Nov 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted by jazak
> That should've NEVER happened. There is NO exccuse they can make for this;
> 
> 1-Working in heavy rain = stupid
> ...



I thought I was going nuts with all the comments made on this thread. I know everybody that commented and said how stupid these guys are has never made a mistake or messed anything up in their life but sh** happens a good wind in a big heavy topped tree at the wrong time can break a rope and it was storming after the accident if not during so wind is likely, a chainsaw can stall on a winch and anybody who has whole sailed any amount of trees can tell you that tree was notched look at the hinges they don't tear like that when you cut straight through the break off the front. Yoder is probably their last name and where do you get off stating thats stupid. And like Mike said I don't make the home owner leave their house do you guys porch is part of their house. I am not saying there isn't things that could have been done that could have prevented it but its not your place to say anybody is stupid. I think you need to think through what you say before you say it a little more and it might not look as stupid to someone that actually knows what they are doing.


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## (WLL) (Nov 15, 2006)

Monk said:


> I thought I was going nuts with all the comments made on this thread. I know everybody that commented and said how stupid these guys are has never made a mistake or messed anything up in their life but sh** happens a good wind in a big heavy topped tree at the wrong time can break a rope and it was storming after the accident if not during so wind is likely, a chainsaw can stall on a winch and anybody who has whole sailed any amount of trees can tell you that tree was notched look at the hinges they don't tear like that when you cut straight through the break off the front. Yoder is probably their last name and where do you get off stating thats stupid. And like Mike said I don't make the home owner leave their house do you guys porch is part of their house. I am not saying there isn't things that could have been done that could have prevented it but its not your place to say anybody is stupid. I think you need to think through what you say before you say it a little more and it might not look as stupid to someone that actually knows what they are doing.


great reply monk i say 2 me self w t f from the pic tree should have been pieced down this is poor work in any weather deepest sympathy to the children and family


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## trevmcrev (Nov 17, 2006)

If the job was done during bad weather then its quite possible that due to pressure to get the job done the poor decision was made to try and fell the whole tree when it was probably originally estimated and planned to be climbed and dismantled. Ive seen a number of climbers over the years try to get away with felling to avoid climbing in the rain. A little rain on and off is ok, but if its too heavy reschedule the job and find something small and easy to do instead or take the opportunity for some equip maintenance.

Trev


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## JayD (Nov 18, 2006)

*My thoughts are with the Family*



trevmcrev said:


> If the job was done during bad weather then its quite possible that due to pressure to get the job done the poor decision was made to try and fell the whole tree when it was probably originally estimated and planned to be climbed and dismantled. Ive seen a number of climbers over the years try to get away with felling to avoid climbing in the rain. A little rain on and off is ok, but if its too heavy reschedule the job and find something small and easy to do instead or take the opportunity for some equip maintenance.
> 
> Trev



I agree 100% when it's raining and or high winds,it's maintenance time,
I've been thinking about this accident and no one goes to work to purposly hurt anyone!...Thinking of the bloke who dropped the the tree aswell and how he must feel


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