# Tree Marking Symbols



## Laird

Are tree marking symbols universal? I have some trees that were marked during our last sale that I'm not sure what the mark means as they were not harvested. Most I see have a 6-8" horizontal red line while some with the same symbol are also blue. The blue may be from an even earlier harvest as they appear more weather worn.


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## Gologit

Laird said:


> Are tree marking symbols universal? I have some trees that were marked during our last sale that I'm not sure what the mark means as they were not harvested. Most I see have a 6-8" horizontal red line while some with the same symbol are also blue. The blue may be from an even earlier harvest as they appear more weather worn.


 
We need our resident Tree Marker/Forester person to answer that. SLOWP?

'Til she gets here...some times trees are marked to cut, other times they're marked to leave. The FS uses blue a lot to mark the cut. They also use colored ribbon to mark unit boundaries and corridors. The ribbon is great because it can be removed or relocated by the logger. Not that that ever happens.

The outfit I do most of my work for usually marks leave trees and I think they use whatever color on sale at WalMart that week. We mostly clear-cut, so the only marked trees are arch sites, buffer zones along waterways, and boundary identification.

If you want to see a USFS person get all agitated...ask to borrow their blue paint for a while.


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## GLOBOTREE

are you gonna remove the RED and prune the ones that BLEW over
If the individual who marked them originally is not around the blue and red might represent some clue? if a storm comes into a forest the wind does not care which woods are harvestable, perhaps you should have the forest assessed again,if in doubt>dont take them out. By the way? have any interesting Oak burls? burls of any sort?


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## ckliff

forest service documents

first heading - "service-wide issuances", look under chapter 70.

hope this helps.


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## Laird

Gologit said:


> We need our resident Tree Marker/Forester person to answer that. SLOWP?
> 
> 'Til she gets here...some times trees are marked to cut, other times they're marked to leave. The FS uses blue a lot to mark the cut. They also use colored ribbon to mark unit boundaries and corridors. The ribbon is great because it can be removed or relocated by the logger. Not that that ever happens.
> 
> The outfit I do most of my work for usually marks leave trees and I think they use whatever color on sale at WalMart that week. We mostly clear-cut, so the only marked trees are arch sites, buffer zones along waterways, and boundary identification.
> 
> If you want to see a USFS person get all agitated...ask to borrow their blue paint for a while.


 
No clear cuts here, all mixed hardwoods that are marked for cutting. I've e-mailed our forester here for an answer but it's been a week or so and he hasn't gotten back with me yet. My best guess is that they are trees marked for harvest that were missed by the loggers as they are all good looking trees and all in one area.


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## Laird

ACORN said:


> are you gonna remove the RED and prune the ones that BLEW over
> If the individual who marked them originally is not around the blue and red might represent some clue? if a storm comes into a forest the wind does not care which woods are harvestable, perhaps you should have the forest assessed again,if in doubt>dont take them out. By the way? have any interesting Oak burls? burls of any sort?


 
I pass what If I remember right is a Cherry Burl as I go into the woodlot. I'll try to remember to take a pic next time I pass by.


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## Laird

ckliff said:


> forest service documents
> 
> first heading - "service-wide issuances", look under chapter 70.
> 
> hope this helps.


 
Forest Service Website Is Currently Unavailable

I'll have to try later, Thanks.


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## slowp

First off, Bob....boundaries are also painted up here and should also be in your neck of the woods. We use orange paint for boundaries but used to use white. White can be hard to see in the snow and fog.

Different agencies/outfits use different color schemes. Blue is cut here. Yellow is firewood but the wildlife people also use it to mark wildlife trees so then somebody has to put no woodcutting signs on it...:question: 

Red is usually a leave tree color except now that we have loggers doing the marking it can be cut. Confused?

Sounds to me like your area was leave tree marked. And cut tree marked. 
By the way, The Most Important Mark is the stump mark. That way you know what color the tree was marked after the logging if you got the stump mark at ground level and in a crack or hole where it couldn't easily get rubbed off by the skidder or turn of logs. Ahhhh, the secrets of timber marking. Never Look Back or You'll Go Crazy. Never Admit To Being A Timber Marker. Etc...


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## madhatte

Our boundaries are marked by weatherproof cards stapled to trees. Cut trees get a blue ring at eye level. Leave trees generally get no mark unless they are wildlife trees or otherwise excluded, in which case they get orange paint and usually a card of some sort to explain the exclusion. As noted, the stump mark is all-important -- that's the logger's insurance against a fine for timber theft. 

And no, you can't borrow my paint gun.


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## yooper

like slowp mentioned check the stump. here all removals are stump marked so the logger is not taking unmarked trees. wild life trees here are usually marked with a W and birds eye is marked with a circle and a dot in the middle both on the tree and the stump. Are the marked trees flowing a skid trail? perhaps the forester gave them designated trails to follow.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> First off, Bob....boundaries are also painted up here and should also be in your neck of the woods.


 
Painted? Really? Wowzers. That must have been what all the screaming and yelling was about awhile back where our ground meets FS ground. Gosh, we didn't know.
It's hard to figure boundaries when you're color blind and somebody stole the ribbon and maybe there was some bar oil film on my glasses...or something. And it was just a couple of trees. Small trees, too. Sound familiar?


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## Gologit

madhatte said:


> And no, you can't borrow my paint gun.


 
Okay. But how 'bout a handful of those nifty weather-proof cards instead?


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## 2dogs

In the Sierras the FS marks take trees with a horizontal blue line and a V at ground level. The blue paint has a tracer that identifies it as "FS only" and is called $10,000.00 paint. One can will mark up to $10K in timber.

White dots are survey marks and green paint is my own marking system.


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## GLOBOTREE

opcorn: interesting


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## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Okay. But how 'bout a handful of those nifty weather-proof cards instead?



Turns out, you gotta order 'em direct from the manufacturer. I was gonna just give you a link, but I can't find one!


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## Laird

I'll have to check the stump area next time I'm out. I doubt that they were marked to leave since it's always a selective harvest and only trees to harvest are usually marked. I was told at one time a tree marked with an X was not included in the sale, was of little or no value and was free for that taking if the purchaser was so inclined. I'm just not sure how the trees marked to be sold were marked.


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## forestryworks

Laird said:


> No clear cuts here, all mixed hardwoods that are marked for cutting. I've e-mailed our forester here for an answer but it's been a week or so and he hasn't gotten back with me yet. My best guess is that they are trees marked for harvest that were missed by the loggers as they are all good looking trees and all in one area.


 
CALL him! Hound him! Some of these foresters around here - it's like trying to get a hold of the Pope!


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## radoutdoors

From the markings I have done many foresters or buys have there own little markings, especially when bidding a job. We had marks for veneer and marks for other grades. The color change may be nothing more than a guy ran out of paint or it could be from different buyers. The markings could also be since it was a selective harvest for seed trees. Never know until you talk to the forester, since there are so many ways to mark a woodlot. Just my 2 cents. Good luck


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## slowp

2dogs said:


> In the Sierras the FS marks take trees with a horizontal blue line and a V at ground level. The blue paint has a *tracer* that identifies it as "FS only" and is called $10,000.00 paint. One can will mark up to $10K in timber.
> 
> .



Ruh Roh. You may expect a black helicopter to be landing in your yard, and appropriate action to be taken. You have revealed a trade secret.

We have to check the paint out, check the empties back in, constantly inventory it, keep it locked up behind a heavy locked door, and heaven help you if you lose a can out in the brush. 

Those cards that are stapled on trees are getting spendy. They are made of Tyvek. 
Staple Staple Staple Staple Staple, Tie, Squirt, Squirt. That's what it takes to do a boundary. It would be nice to have three hands. The Used Dog can carry tags and flagging, but he is not tall enough to staple the tags and lacks thumbs for tying flagging. :cute:


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## 8433jeff

How will we ever cut budgets in an environment that checks empty paint cans back in? For what, refill? lol As if that color isn't on hand in a nearby store.


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## slowp

8433jeff said:


> How will we ever cut budgets in an environment that checks empty paint cans back in? For what, refill? lol As if that color isn't on hand in a nearby store.



Nope, you can't buy the paint in a store. It is a special paint with a secret *tracer* chemical in it. In case of a suspected timber theft, like somebody did use paint bought in a store to mark additonal timber, we can use a test kit and tell out in the woods if the paint is government put on paint, or timber stealer paint. 

All this stuff has come about because somebody was stealing trees in the past. 

Also, there have been cases where people who were against timber being cut went in and used over the counter orange paint to mark more LEAVE trees. Once again, the chemistry set comes out and the paint is tested. 

The endless accountability checking is to keep the paint secure. There have been instances of dishonest employees selling it to loggers. They went to jail. 

That's why I immediately start saying NO NO NO when a logger jokes about borrowing the paint.


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## wowzers

Wow that would be a huge PITA to check back in empties. I use to have about a half dozen or so empties (paint it was a work rig) in the back. Get done for the day and dump out the empties from my vest. Wait till the weekend to clean them all out.


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## Jacob J.

The F.S. districts here are very strict about keeping track of empties. The BLM, not so much. That's why I work for Dept. of Interior.


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## madhatte

We're not _super_-uptight about paint inventory. Paint residue left in the can? Hoo boy, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. We have a special locker for the cans to dry out in, and only one key, and it's not a normal lock. Hazmat is a hazzle. 

Also: the Tyvek cards are only used in the final sale preparations, and are stapled facing into the unit. They're yellow. They're tough as nails and don't seem to fade in the sun at all.

The flasher cards are smaller, square, and are made of plasticized Rite-In-The-Rain paper. They come in several colors. You have to order them directly from the manufacturer, which is located conveniently about fifteen minutes from my office. These we are staple points-up ("diamonds") around the perimeter of a unit, and flat-up ("squares") facing into the unit. That way you can tell as you are approaching a unit boundary working from inside of the unit toward the outside, and you can see the boundary from the outside looking in.


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## 8433jeff

This is way more complicated than on Ax Men. But I am learning something. Tracer paint. Wow. I did have to count empty spray cans for a week as punishment in my welder gig back in the day. We would puncture the empty primer cans (so they wouldn't blow if the trash can started on fire) on my shift. Funny thing, them fumes are flammable, too, and we had a small fire in the welding booth. Shop towels full of hand cleaner, paint cans and paint, plastic shrink wrap from a pallet of parts, gets to be a lot of fuel when the 55 gallon drum trash can is almost full. Had about 80 people outside for a while, as the soot and smoke settled, but no fire dept., so we kept our jobs for a while longer. Couldn't get a new can of primer for two weeks without giving the empty one to a line supervisor.


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## slowp

The rumor is that only one or two people know the secret formula or have the secret formula for the paint. 

Each office has one person who is in charge of the paint. They have the key to the paint room and they check it out and inventory it. 

Yes, the paint has to dry in the cans before they can be disposed of. 

Like many things, this has gotten very complicated because of bad people taking advantage of the system. 

Before the days of tracer paint, the marking crew I was on would sometimes have cases of paint packed in by mules and stashed out in the units. That was in hard to get to helicopter units or unroaded areas. We could walk in each day without carrying a heavy load of paint on our backs.

You can't do that now.


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## Laird

OK, the forester got back with me and he said;

"The horizontal marks indicate sawtimber trees selected to harvest. Other marks might be #'s for veneer, X's for trees of questionable soundness but that should be harvested or killed to benefit the woods, diagonal marks may indicate trees to be cut for pulpwood or firewood." 

So there it is. Not sure if that is his system, local system, state wide or whatever.


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## Billy_Bob

As to flagging tape, around here I've seen every color of the rainbow in the woods and no consistent use of any colors.

I asked at the local logging store and the guy said they use whatever colors they have in their truck at the time.

As for myself and use on private property, I like to use green, yellow, and red.
Green = Cut.
Yellow = Cut, but hazard tree, special care needed to take down.
Red = Don't cut.

Easy for everyone to understand and remember.


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## Oldtimer

Simple:

Paint means "Cut this one, and all the other ones within 50 feet of it".


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## 60DRB

Revival from the dead paint thread...

My dad told me that in Missouri purple paint marked trees indicate a "no trespassing" boundary. I'm down in Alabama and can find no information about the various tree paint markings I've seen. USDA source has minimal info about boundary markings with paint. I'm thinking I'll be visited by the black helicopters any minute now...


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## slowp

Helicopters are like so passe. Drones are the latest conpiracy/threat.


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## madhatte

Neither particularly alarm me. You know, FOR REASONS.


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## OlympicYJ

Started reading the thread and then realized it had been bumped. Coming from the private sector I won't comment on our empty can disposal methods... but I will say target practice is a good way to poke holes in cans 

Yea drones are definitely the thing now a days. Blackhawks are like mullets. Everyone has seen one at some point and they're out of style...

PS only govt uses blue. At least in my area lol We use orange to mark the boundaries from the inside. Up in Forks they'll still blaze trees and paint the blazes. Cedar salvage marking is a %$^& can't trust the shake rats and have to pretty much spray, flag, or tag anything that you don't want cut... and if you flag or tag it you spray it. I think between me and my boss we went through at least a case of paint and I wanna say a half box of cut boundary cards on a unit. Our cards weren't fancy tyvek. Just write in the rain type paper, the local print shop made em for us.

My favorite is eraser paint


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## StihlKiwi

OlympicYJ said:


> Started reading the thread and then realized it had been bumped. Coming from the private sector I won't comment on our empty can disposal methods... but I will say target practice is a good way to poke holes in cans
> 
> Yea drones are definitely the thing now a days. Blackhawks are like mullets. Everyone has seen one at some point and they're out of style...
> 
> PS only govt uses blue. At least in my area lol We use orange to mark the boundaries from the inside. Up in Forks they'll still blaze trees and paint the blazes. Cedar salvage marking is a %$^& can't trust the shake rats and have to pretty much spray, flag, or tag anything that you don't want cut... and if you flag or tag it you spray it. I think between me and my boss we went through at least a case of paint and I wanna say a half box of cut boundary cards on a unit. Our cards weren't fancy tyvek. Just write in the rain type paper, the local print shop made em for us.
> 
> My favorite is eraser paint



Eraser paint?


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## 7oaks

Okay, here in WV - as far as I can see - The state has marked our mutual boundaries with blue paint. Private property boundaries are painted with single red stripes/slashes. Since out east all surveys are by metes and bounds - corners are marked with rebar and marker trees around the the corners are marked with three red stripes on "marker" trees.

On my forest service boundaries in Montana the corners are brass caps with the section/quarter section engraved. Marker trees around the brass cap have metal tags nailed to them. Our common boundary is marked along its length with plastic posts identifying the boundary with a sign that faces the private property identifying the divide between the two.

On FS cuts around my place there have been different marking methods/colors used for boundaries, and leave trees. Leave trees are usually painted a good ways up the trunk so that if a tree shows up at the mill painted it is a give away.

My 2 cents...


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## OlympicYJ

Yeah... it's just a fun name for black paint! 

If we screw up it get's covered in black lol


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