# Cold weather clothing



## treeslayer (Oct 24, 2009)

I need input from climbers going up in really cold weather.

I'm in NW Illinois this winter, (from VA), and what am I looking for is thermal underware, waterproof (nylon?) outerware, and most importantly, gloves. 

I am a VERY flexible climber, so coveralls and restrictive clothing won't work. 
Money is not an object, either, I gotta be on point. 

I've been watching extreme ice loggers, deadliest catch, etc...and wanna try to beat this winter like I do trees.

Thanks, dave


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## TheLumberJack (Oct 24, 2009)

hmmmm...money is no object...must be nice!

I've summited many peaks...Kilimanjaro last year...also thruhiked the AT twice..once in winter and once in summer.

In your situation, I'd mimic the dress of an ice climber...needing wind and water proofing as much as flexibility...Goretex shell, fleece midlayer and breathable base. 

Check out www.backcountrygear.com and www.golite.com

Those are two of my favorite places to shop for these types of items.


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## clearance (Oct 24, 2009)

I like the cold better than the heat, and the best thing about running a saw is that you can warm up your hands whenever you want. I like a t-shirt, covered with a Stanfield shirt, and maybe a Carhart jacket, undone of course, so you can work better. 

I think one big problem is how sometimes you are working real hard, high heartbeat, then other times you are not moving a whole bunch, but in one spot. Thats why layering works well, you don't want your sweat to chill you.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 24, 2009)

Layering is the best, so you can take stuff off as it worms up.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/d/161_Mens-Underwear-and-Baselayer.html

STP has some of the best prices I've seen. Set the search from lowest price to highest. There was a polypro longjohn bottom for $8 when i just looked.

Get some fleece tops and a storm shell for cutting the wind.

Big fluffy down sucks, you need durable, so the high-end mountain stuff is best. i like a long waist, so that it stays under the saddle. No back gap or bunging up in front.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/d/208_Mens-Waterproof-Shell-Jackets.html


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## Norwayclimber (Oct 24, 2009)

Go for woolen underwear if you can find it. Keeps you warm, even when youre damp. 

I you want somthing that's waterproof, that means tempratures are above 0 degrees Cecius, and I wouldnt concider that for beeing cold.

For tempratures below that, get something windproof but breatheable. Gets less damp, and that keeps you warmer. 

If youre gonna work hard, dress lightly, so you dont get sweat and wet, cause then youll get cold. And for more stillstanding work, add a layer (fleece) between the underwear and the windproof jacket.

Gloves? just keep working outside all the autum and winter, and your hands will adjust to the temprature. (the only part of the body that will adjust) I use the same thin leather gloves in the wintertime as in the summer (but it does get cold when the get wet, so have lots of them). And heated chainsawhandles rocks


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## Wilson_tree (Oct 24, 2009)

It gets cold here too. I wear Arborwear tech pants sized a bit big so I can get long johns underneath. I wear a thin pair and a heavy pair of the longjohns when it's really cold and windy or just one of those depending on the day. On top I wear a lightweight longjohn top, a fleece shirt, and then a fleece vest. Over them all I wear this: http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/appareldetail.cfm/CLD4005
The Cloudveil jacket doesn't tear like goretex and it breathes like nothing else. It isn't waterproof, but it dries super fast. The Sierra Trading Post site is the best place to get cheap long underwear. With all those layers you can adjust for anything.


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## Grace Tree (Oct 24, 2009)

Arborwear just added flannel lined "original" pants. 'Haven't tried them but may be a partial solution.
Phil


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## yooper (Oct 24, 2009)

I live in a colder climate. I dont go fancy with cold weather cloths. for a good cold weather pant go to Labonville they have a winter pants(black) that will also take a kevlar insert. I have had mine for over 8 years and worked in the woods as a Sawyer for 3 years with them. And climb with them now. they are rugged and flexible. just spray with tent guard a couple times a winter and you will always stay dry. if it is below 0 I will wear a pair of sweat pants under them if not I just wear the pants. Just get them a size bigger in the waist.
For top clothing the biggest thing is layers. makes it easier to dress down as it warms up a couple degrees in the afternoon.


SKU: WN600P 
Weight: 2 lbs 0 ozs

Labonville's own cold weather black nylon Pants. Made of tough 430 Denier black nylon w/ increased urethane coating. Lined with thinsulate c100 black quilted nylon lining. Two deep back pockets with bar tacks and flaps, two full front pockets. Draw strings on pant hems. Front and back inside buttons for suspender and front snaps for our safety pads. Made in the USA.
You made need to order the next waist size up to provide a proper fit over your pants.


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## fishercat (Oct 24, 2009)

*those have to be hang dried.*



Small Wood said:


> Arborwear just added flannel lined "original" pants. 'Haven't tried them but may be a partial solution.
> Phil



if you put them in the drier,the flannel shrinks more than the exterior material.


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## treemandan (Oct 24, 2009)

Whatever you wear I find I have to remove the first layer cause it gets too wet by noon and by evening its to late.


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## Grace Tree (Oct 24, 2009)

That's good to know. Thanks


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## treemandan (Oct 24, 2009)

For light weight and flexability in very cold I suggest the base layer be thin then thick fleece then a tough shell then you are warm and toasty in there.
Hoodies are heavy, the hood obstructs vision.


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## TheLumberJack (Oct 24, 2009)

Cotton kills


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 24, 2009)

Under Armor Cold Gear. Get a top and bottom and go from there. It'll take moisture right out of the equation. I like uninsulated (layer underneath if need be) Carhart bibs over the top (eliminates draft), with the short Carhart Artic coat for climbing (fleece under coat if needed). Also, throw in a Under Armor full face mask and an insulated hard hat liner.


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 24, 2009)

treemandan said:


> For light weight and flexability in very cold I suggest the base layer be thin then thick fleece then a tough shell then you are warm and toasty in there.
> Hoodies are heavy, the hood obstructs vision.



Agreed 100%.

It also depends upon how active you are, but you need some base clothing that wicks the sweat away from your body and transfers it to the outer layers. Older clothing did not do that well, but there are a lot of company's who make marvelous cold weather clothing for both active and inactive users.

There are dozens of choices out there, the ones I have picked lately are made by UnderArmor (called ColdGear). They have Base 1, Base 2 and Base 3. I seriously doubt you will need the 3rd base layer unless you are in something that is going to be sixty below or colder and sitting still. Really Base 1 and Base 2 are likely all you need plus the outer layers. Most company's today provide the base layer technology and the ability to wick the sweat away from your body. Still carry a change of clothing as the outer layer will get drenched with sweat. The first base layer surprisingly does not get soaking wet.. just passes the water through it. (I was using it this week myself - just the first layer though)

Try looking in stores like Bass Pro as they likely carry this or similar products as well. Get only the best - the price you pay for it will more than pay you back on the cold days. I have about a dozen pairs of top and bottom.

This will cover your underneath layers.


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## treemandan (Oct 24, 2009)

I find that with under armour stuff you still have to remove the wet layer closest to your skin after a while.


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## treemandan (Oct 24, 2009)

I don't think any of that stuff "wics" anything. It be BS, total. It gets wet then cold just the same as a T shirt though not as much. I also find it binding and tight to wear.


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## OntarioClimber (Oct 25, 2009)

Smartwool, or a like-merino wool base is very good.
wool is the only fabric that will retain heat even when wet, actually, it gives off calories or heat when wet..
I wear wool all the time bow hunting; and even when very wet, it is warm.

Now I would not wear wool outerwear climbing, would be too heavy, but the longjohns and long underwear top? for sure  Add a fleece mid layer, then some type of breathable, windproof layer for the outer shell and you will have a bombproof system. 
The new Sitka-gear line would be good, albeit it is camo, if they ever come out with it in black? it would be great.


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## capetrees (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm in the middle of this question for the upcoming hunting season, sitting in a tree styand al day in winter gets cold. But you'll be moving so you can create the warmth. 

Over the years, its always been layer after layer of thermal clothing topped by a hooded sweatshirt. One major layer is a turtleneck longsleeve shirt. Major heat retention! Even with this, it still seems to get cold so this year I'll be buying some of the previously mentioned smarttwool or merino wool clothing, all the qualities of regular wool but a bit softer and more comfortable. One place where the cold always gets me up in the tree is my hands. I never wear gloves in winter, can't find a pair that fits right, but that also means up in a tree, they get REAL cold. If I climbed everyday, I'd find a pair of warm gloves before anything else. And no, I'm not a fan of the UnderArmour yet. Seems all fashion and no proof.


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## OntarioClimber (Oct 25, 2009)

Buy a couple of boxes of hot paws, keep them in the gloves on the back of the palms, they work like magic! always have a set when cold weather hunting.

I shoot a BW recurve, so I shoot with a shooting glove; i always have my hand in my pocket with the hot paw.


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## fishercat (Oct 25, 2009)

*i always had good luck with Cabelas.*

great return policy if you have a problem.


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## rydnruff (Oct 25, 2009)

i personally use under armor as my first layer but not the compresion gear but the gear that fits just a little loose like cotton thermals would, i cant remember the exact name but its awsome. Here is the crazy sounding part but it works great and prevents me from wearing alot of layers and constricting my movement, i keep a small bottle of crystals brand hot sauce with me and nip at it when i get a little chilly. Crystals brand is not firey hot and has more of a vinager taste so you can handle small shots without burning your mouth.I know most of you will laugh or say something not so nice but until you try it dont knock it.


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## Koa Man (Oct 25, 2009)

Cold weather here means mid 60's F, and a long sleeve T-shirt.

You guys who work in temps below 40º are a tough bunch. I find it difficult to climb with gloves.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 25, 2009)

Looks like Ive got an essay here....



Small Wood said:


> Arborwear just added flannel lined "original" pants.



I've always found flannel to be too bulky. Then it does not address the wind blowing up your pantsleg while hanging. They mat be good for ground work, but suck in the tree.



yooper said:


> for a good cold weather pant go to Labonville they have a winter pants(black) that will also take a kevlar insert.



Fancy is a relative thing, though saw pants are good in the very cold, because we tend to make more mistakes then. 

A very good thing about LaBonville is that they will make anything that they sew custom measure for us freaks that size outside the normal range. They made my saw pants at no extra charge. With Dave being a skinny little whip, he may need some help there.



treemandan said:


> For light weight and flexability in very cold I suggest the base layer be thin then thick fleece then a tough shell then you are warm and toasty in there. Hoodies are heavy, the hood obstructs vision.



We are singing from the same sheet of music here Danny Boy. Mountaineering clothes were made for rich people to be comfortable, now they have made cheap alternatives for us common people. STP makes it even easier to stomach the cost. 

Boots and shell are my two biggest outlays, cuz they good work and last. Look for a good shell that is helmet friendly and it can go over the pot when you have intermittent problems, or under it when it is nasty and blowing all the time. 

they also have draw strings on top so you can adjsut them out of your field of vision. Balaclavas are good too, though the heavy ones are usually too warm for me.



Nailsbeats said:


> Under Armor Cold Gear. Get a top and bottom and go from there.



I think you pay too much for the UA lable. Maybe it's the anti stink tech in it, but the cheap stuff works just as well. Wickers is great, but i find it sizes too small for me to wear. Kenyon has been my brand of choice for the past few years, when STP has a big sale.

Lastly, we,ve forgot about the feet. I like an over sized boot, and 2-3 pair of socks, one a thin dress like liner, and then a heavy wool. The third may be a normal weight in between. This gives a double advantage of reduced friction, and more air room for insulation. 

This is were the wicking effects really show through. I used to have sweaty feet until I listened to a hiker when in the USMC and layered my socks. my feet feel much better at the end of the day with layering then with only one pair, no matter the temp. (well, I've not done it in +100* for years)


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## ageniusforhire (Oct 25, 2009)

*cold weather gear*

Funny, no one mentioned what gloves to use. i know,climbers hate gloves, but if you climb when its 10f outside, your gonna need gloves. I guess at that temp, most of you are burnin wood, not cutting it,lol. As awkward looking as they are,very few people try the best i have found. U.S.army surplus trigger finger mittens are great. they usually work best without the liner in them for climbing. They cost about $10 at your local flea mkt or army surplus. Do not wear them near a chipper.There are 3 different generations of these gloves,the lined ones are best,prefferably the brown ripstop nylon ones, but take what you can get. they have large collars that can comfortably hold little pocket handwarmers for below zero days, and the triggerfinger on them makes them great for running a saw. Just be careful they dont catch on a stub as a limb flies away.My hands will actually sweat if i use them above 20f outside temp,without the liners in them.A thick ski mask type hat is good,too. If you get too hot,just take off the hat and your whole body cools down some.Definitly wear layers. I go cheap, and usually wear sweatpants under army cammo pants. If its nasty,wet,snowing,etc, i wear a pair of ski pants over the cammos. Army chemical pants are very warm,as well. Any type of coveralls/jumpsuit/onepiece thing usually gets too hot for climbers. on top, i wear a tshirt then a loose sweatshirt,with a sweater over both.If thats not enough for the morning,i have a nice,loose army fieldjacket or weatherproof garmet company jacket to throw on top. The army field jacket liners are a great layer to throw in on super cold days,too.those things feel like they give off heat, and cost about $10-20 surplus.


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## treevet (Oct 25, 2009)

Ski bibs are my mainstay. You never get that chill at the waist (yeeeowww) and it is like walking around in a sleeping bag. Gathers at the ankles and I tie the shoulder straps together so they don't drift over your shoulder and drive you nuts. A large chain called "####s" (Dihk's) carries them every fall in the cheapo version for about $25. When getting muffler burns and tears I just get another pair every couple of months. 

I also like the full turtle neck tucked into the bibs and a bacclava (sp) -hat with only a face opening- tucks right over the turtleneck. I top this off with a down vest (not fluffy or rigid) and might add a plastic windbreaker inside that (the vest) if real cold. 

When climbing I use a pair of real tight leather gloves that are lined and cinched at the wrist and I have found this to be the best grip. They can be bought for around 8$ instead of the 35.$ marked on them at outlets. (TJ Max) Sometimes I take an extra pair of gloves (ski gloves) up for when all the moving around is lessened.

I usually draw the line at 15 degrees f. unless a real busy takedown. It is one of the perks of not being a desk jockey as I see it.


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## WolverineMarine (Oct 25, 2009)

I have been through cold weather training through the Marines a few times and we have had lengthy classes on this type of stuff..I agree with the simple phrase cotton kills..when it gets cold and windy..go with a thin synthetic base layer(I HATE the tight fitting stuff..it makes all the hair on my legs get irritated kinda like when you get hat hair)..Fleece is a modern miracle for cold weather..it doesnt shrink like flannel.it retains most of it warming ability when it gets wet..it dries SUPER fast and easy..its cheap..and it lasts a long time..as far as on outter layer..wind proof for sure..I like the dense nylon stuff for durability..gore tex is nice..but it tears pretty easy..and gloves..I found these fleece lined ones with a rubber coating called frosty paws..kinda like the climbing gloves I use..when they get wet or too damp..I just put on the other pair I have..put the wet ones on the dashboard of the truck and turn on the heater to let em dry..


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## treeslayer (Oct 25, 2009)

Well guys, some good advice here. I appreciate the feedback on brands and styles of clothing. I've been working outside for 35 years now, and even though Va winters get down into the teens, and I work regularly in 20 deg. weather, these Illinois temps are gonna test me.

I'm gonna buy some high end wool under clothing as suggested, (I've already got the right boots), I will be looking for the right outerware suit, and the only thing I'm worried about now are my hands.

My hands have been beaten up pretty bad over the years doing comm. electrical work, and when they get too cold, THEY HURT. and when they warm back up, they HURT WORSE. so I try to carry several pairs of gloves aloft, and always with me in the truck. good hunting gloves are expensive, and do not last long climbing. My problem is having gloves I can work in, (tying knots, working rigging gear, etc.....) keep advice coming on that, please.

I like the idea of hand warmers, too, got lots of pockets in my BDU's.

This was KY last year, about 5 degrees, 25+ mph wind, and started snowing as soon as I went up in that :censored: metal bucket. I was warm though, until the wind finally got me.
3 - 4 layers, and toasty.


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## treeslayer (Oct 25, 2009)

treevet said:


> I usually draw the line at 15 degrees f. unless a real busy takedown. It is one of the perks of not being a desk jockey as I see it.



My man.  sounds like new company policy to me.


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 25, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> Cold weather here means mid 60's F, and a long sleeve T-shirt.
> 
> You guys who work in temps below 40º are a tough bunch. I find it difficult to climb with gloves.



Below 40º ? Try minus 40º and see how that feels.. now have not done much work at that level for 20 years.. but between zero and minus 20º is common.


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## J.S. (Oct 25, 2009)

As far as gloves i would look into some Dakine gloves, they're meant for skiing an stuff, but i do alot of work in the winter, and because the cold cant be avoided (i live in the sierras) they keep you very warm, and they are a thin glove that lets you still use your fingers to tie knots an such. good luck this winter, fleece, wool and gortex, an remember, "cotton kills".


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## Taxmantoo (Oct 25, 2009)

balznutz said:


> my girlfriend has some insulated pantyhose maybe thats what you need. Give you that flexability your looking for:spam:




Why's this getting neg-rep?
Back when I was in college, the football team was issued Big Mama pantyhose for cold weather games. Of course, a 300lb linesman doesn't have to worry about anybody calling him a pansy to his face. 

For traditional long underwear, polypropylene has great warmth to thickness, but it can get stinky.


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## treevet (Oct 25, 2009)

taxmantoo said:


> Why's this getting neg-rep?



Maybe cause he's tryin to give away his gf's pantyhose.:kilt:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 25, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> Cold weather here means mid 60's F, and a long sleeve T-shirt.
> 
> You guys who work in temps below 40º are a tough bunch. I find it difficult to climb with gloves.



forties are the best working weather there is!


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## Mike Cantolina (Oct 25, 2009)

WolverineMarine said:


> ..and gloves..I found these fleece lined ones with a rubber coating called frosty paws..kinda like the climbing gloves I use..when they get wet or too damp..I just put on the other pair I have..put the wet ones on the dashboard of the truck and turn on the heater to let em dry..





J.S. said:


> As far as gloves i would look into some Dakine gloves, they're meant for skiing an stuff, but i do alot of work in the winter, and because the cold cant be avoided (i live in the sierras) they keep you very warm, and they are a thin glove that lets you still use your fingers to tie knots an such. good luck this winter, fleece, wool and gortex, an remember, "cotton kills".



You guys have any links for these gloves?


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## J.S. (Oct 25, 2009)

it looks like they dont have the ones i have anymore, but here ya go, good huntin.



http://www.dakine.com/ski/gloves/guys-gloves/


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 25, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> forties are the best working weather there is!



Yep. Forties to fifties in my books.


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## WolverineMarine (Oct 26, 2009)

Originally Posted by WolverineMarine 
..and gloves..I found these fleece lined ones with a rubber coating called frosty paws..kinda like the climbing gloves I use..when they get wet or too damp..I just put on the other pair I have..put the wet ones on the dashboard of the truck and turn on the heater to let em dry..



Mike Cantolina said:


> You guys have any links for these gloves?



Sorry bro..theres a local general store I get them from..but heres a link to something pretty similar..these might even be better..I like Atlas gloves the best..they FAR and above hold up better than any of the others that I have tried..

http://www.palmflex.com/product.php?productid=1038&gclid=CI_X0eTJ2p0CFRHxDAodYn_trw


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## treeslayer (Oct 26, 2009)

ageniusforhire said:


> awkward looking as they are,very few people try the best i have found. U.S.army surplus trigger finger mittens are great. they usually work best without the liner in them for climbing.



Mittens? on a climber?   I need more than my thumb to climb.

I do have several pairs of the 2 piece chemical suits, they work well.


The Dakine gloves look good, but no pricing, so I know what that means.
The Atlas gloves work well at moderate temps, not for me in cold weather, though.

GF bought me a pair of real nice gore tex hunting gloves from Dihks, and I like the Snap-On gloves from ACE hardware until it gets below 40.


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## Job Corps Tree (Oct 26, 2009)

*Cold Weather Colthing*

Karl Kuemmerling inc out of OH has some of the best stuff for treework. I spent 28 years in NE IL.20 doing treework try to find a catalog or go on-line www.karlkuemmerling.com. They have a Double Thick Sweat Shirt. Made by Sewing two togather, Heaver Weather Hard hat liners, Face shelds,all the Carhart Bib overalls, Linded Vests and a one finger gauntlet mitten with a Liner. I know this mitten can do tree work , have two pair 1 fron 1982 and I baught another pair in 97. Offten overlooked Kuemmering has some great stuff


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## BlackenedTimber (Oct 26, 2009)

For socks, check out JB Fields. They make awesome wool socks. Used to sell em at the Agway back in the day, I think some Canadian Logger's wife started the company in the late 1800's or something like that... great socks, warm, comfy, extremely well built.

For gloves, I climb with either thinsulate-lined deer-skin gloves, cause I like the dexterity from the deerskin, but get some warmth from the thinsulate. However, they suck when wet. If not deerskin, I use those white cotton gloves dipped in blue PVC on the fingers and palm. Not very warm, but better than nothing, and excellent dexterity and grip.


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## brnchbrkr (Oct 26, 2009)

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...t600428&forcedId=cat21404&cmCat=cat21404_ntw1

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...t602219&forcedId=cat21404&cmCat=cat21404_ntw2

During one of your rain days, this week, run down to Cabela's in Hoffman Estates and check out the BARGAIN CAVE.

You might find something for this winter.

Then go look in the Ice Fishing section.

http://www.cabelas.com/ice-fishing-clothing-footwear-sale.shtml


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## treevet (Oct 26, 2009)

Imagine fighting a war in minus 40 degree F weather. Chosin Reservoir makes these latter day wars seem awful tame. 

http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/history/missions/chosin_reservoir


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 26, 2009)

Just goes to show you that Uncle Sugar is willing to shaft a GI any chance he gets. Been going on forever. Can you imagine going into something like that with summer issue gear?


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## tree md (Oct 26, 2009)

treevet said:


> Imagine fighting a war in minus 40 degree F weather. Chosin Reservoir makes these latter day wars seem awful tame.
> 
> http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/history/missions/chosin_reservoir



One of my clients survived the Chosin Reservoir. He's quite a man. I always try to take a little time to talk to him and hear some stories when I work for he and his wife. LOL, They seem to like having me in so I can change a light bulb or two and maybe stack some glasses for them up in one of the high cabinets that Walt cant reach anymore. I always tell them not to worry, the air force has arrived. 

As for cold weather gear. When it's collder than a well digger's... feet, I wear military surplus Polypropylene under garments and a pair of insulated coveralls on the ground.


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## beowulf343 (Oct 26, 2009)

Well treeslayer, i wish you good luck and it should be fun. I've worked with several southern boys who try a northern winter, and it's always interesting. Some thoughts, if i may:

You are going to be at a handicap right off the bat, just in the way you think. Those of us born and raised in cold and snowy winters look at it differently than you probably do. I remember as a kid and teenager sitting out in rich stadium for hours at a time in sub zero weather and having a great time watching the game. You've got to come to grips with the fact that a 20 degree day is a heat wave and by february you are praying for 20 degrees but count yourself lucky if it gets above zero. I think it helps being used to cold winters. Waking up to months of single digit temps or lower can be a depressing experience. Plus some people just prefer the cold-i'd rather work in 20 degrees all year around than 80 degrees. This means that probably what I work in all winter long would be worthless to you. Plus, i'm not sure how much snow you are going to get, but dealing with a couple feet of snow and cold temps is a whole different animal than just straight cold.

Alot of what was said here about layers is golden. However, you need to plan your layers for ease of "access." It can be annoying trying to grab "little treeslayer" through five layers of clothes when it's cold and he doesn't want to poke his head out. I've seen more than a few guys pee down the front of themselves. Laugh it up, but i'm not joking. If you have to actually take clothes off in order to take a leak, there is a problem. Plan your layers accordingly.

I like to climb cold. Meaning if I'm standing at the bottom of the tree and i am comfortable, i take a layer off. Getting up the tree and getting to work will get the blood pumping and it's easier to take a layer off on the ground. About the only time this will backfire is on really windy days-getting above the houses and letting the wind have a clear shot at you will cool you down quick. Once i'm up a tree, i stay moving. If waiting for the groundies, i'll fidget or swing around-anything that will keep my blood pumping and keep me warm. This also means i don't stop all day long. I've always hated lunch breaks. By lunch time, no matter how cold (and i've climbed in -40 in canada back in the 90's), i'm usually feeling comfortable. I've got my layers right, I'm hustling enough to keep the sweat down and keep the blood pumping. Then you stop. Sit in the truck, eat a sandwich. Start back up again and have to put layers on because the truck's warmth doesn't stay with you, then have to take layers off because you start sweating. No lunch breaks eliminates the hassle. Eat a big breakfast, have a power bar in the tree if hungry. 

Heat at home--working a ten hour day in the cold will wear you down. You may ask, "but the days are shorter, you can't work ten hours." Ha, ha, all the crews i've worked with, shorter days only means you spend more time chipping brush by streetlight. You will want warmth at home. I grew up with a woodstove-these radiators, and baseboard heating , and radiant heat are horrible for warming up after a long day. Not to mention they do nothing for drying out clothes and ropes (more on this in a minute.) Get an electric blanket. Get a dryer. Nothing worse than starting a day with damp clothes. And ropes, bring them in EVERY night. Drag a rope through wet snow all day, freezes up at night, makes the next morning a real joy.

Feet: Warm feet are necessary-don't skimp on boots. You aren't going to be walking all day, so you need something insulated. JPS's layered socks is a great tip, but if one pair of socks makes your boots tight, go up a half size and wear a couple pairs. I don't know if it's true or just in my head, but a boot tight on the foot seems to keep my feet colder than one a little loose. As for steel toes, they've never bothered me but some people swear they are colder. Wesco insulated have always done the job for me. Tall socks, tall boots, jeans tucked into the boots to keep drafts down.

Legs: Cold doesn't bother my legs that much. I'll climb in jeans into the teens, then throw on a pare of noninsulated carhart bibs. That gets me down in the negative teens no problem. But like I said earlier, that is probably worthless to you. The big thing for me is keeping the pants dry. Snow is a killer. I'd rather climb in snow at 15 degrees than snow at 30 degrees. If you are going to be climbing in snow at a melting temp, throw another set or two of clothes in the truck. You will be frozen once the sun goes down if you stay in the wet clothes.

Torso: This is going to go against what everyone says here, but I love sheatshirts (not so much in 25+, but anytime below that.) I was downright shocked when someone here said they hated hoods. Around here for many years, climbers would sell their firstborn child for a couple asplundh or davy hoodies with the "grim reaper hoods." Then arborwear started making them. I love them-i'll climb all winter in a hoodie. The lightweight ones for 20ish, the heavier ones for lower temps. Cotton may kill, just don't get it wet from either the inside or outside and i've always been comfortable. But i wear them mainly for the hood, which brings me to...

Headgear: If you are working for a reputable company, they will probably make you wear a helmet or hard hat of some kind. The wind blowing up the back of most helmets is uncomfortable to say the least. There seems to be three main ways to wear a hard hat and stay warm that i've run across. (There's probably more, these are just the common one around here.) The hard hat liner is popular. I've never liked them, unless you get the ones with the longer necks. Wearing a stocking hat with a hard hat on top works but it's hard to keep the hard hat on. And using an oversized hood that will go over the top of the hardhat. The hood is what most use. We may look like dorks, but we are warm headed dorks. And I've never had a problem with being able to see. The "grim-reaper" hoods are made to go over hard hats. If it gets really windy, pop up the hood, throw a scarf in front of the mouth, and snug as a bug. Ear muffs are also a must. (Ear muffs are amazingly warm.)

Hands: I hate gloves-used to go as long as I could before it was unbearable, but now have a couple finger joints a bit messed up from it. My problem is big hands. Finding a good fitting glove is very hard for me. I ended up getting a local amish guy to custom make them for me. They are actually insulated gauntlets. I hate wide cuff gloves, they collect sawdust like crazy and within a couple days all your finger tips are packed. Plus they seem to pack with snow. Pig skin is the best leather, not quite a durable as cowhide, but drys faster and won't stiffen up as bad. But they only get pulled out when the temp is single digits. Leather gloves are horrible for wet snow. I've got some insulated smurfies that seem to do the trick for me. Also, don't underestimate a mitten. I spent enough time on open cabs as a teenager to realize the value of a mitten. I'll often wear them when chipping. Take several pair of gloves with you every day. 

About the only other thing i can think of right now is breathe through your nose. Hustling around all day gulping in air through your mouth will make your evenings unenjoyable.


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## tree md (Oct 26, 2009)

Here's a thought, contract a Northern climber to climb for you during the Winter. 

That's what I did a couple of years ago. Only thing is I was too busy not to be climbing myself. I've got to tell you he takes the cold a lot better than this Southern boy. However, I'd like to see him keep up with me when it's 110 in the shade!


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## treevet (Oct 26, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Just goes to show you that Uncle Sugar is willing to shaft a GI any chance he gets. Been going on forever.



.....and always will...

Almost a line straight out of "Platoon".


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## ageniusforhire (Oct 26, 2009)

*mittens*

Here we go with knocking a sugestion before you've even SEEN a pair of trigger finger mittens. If you had ever seen them, you would know that more than your thumb is free,hence the name "Trigger finger"mittens.I hope your not surprised when you find a pair to see that the "trigger finger" is also free. They give you amazing dexterity to climb and run a saw, but oh well,your loss when a fat gloved finger gets caught in a saw trigger.


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## treeslayer (Oct 27, 2009)

ageniusforhire said:


> Here we go with knocking a sugestion before you've even SEEN a pair of trigger finger mittens. If you had ever seen them, you would know that more than your thumb is free,hence the name "Trigger finger"mittens.I hope your not surprised when you find a pair to see that the "trigger finger" is also free. They give you amazing dexterity to climb and run a saw, but oh well,your loss when a fat gloved finger gets caught in a saw trigger.




Thats a rather retarded statement. Of course I have seen them, and wore them hunting. 
so my "trigger finger" is free, still not enough.

I want all 4 fingers to grip and HOLD onto the tree and/or the rope with.
never had a problem with fingers getting "stuck" either.

Accept the fact what works for you, won't work for me. wear your mittens, I'll wear gloves and climb circles around you.


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## treeslayer (Oct 27, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> Well treeslayer, i wish you good luck and it should be fun. I've worked with several southern boys who try a northern winter, and it's always interesting. Some thoughts, if i may:
> 
> *You are going to be at a handicap right off the bat, just in the way you think. * Those of us born and raised in cold and snowy winters look at it differently than you probably do. I remember as a kid and teenager sitting out in rich stadium for hours at a time in sub zero weather and having a great time watching the game. You've got to come to grips with the fact that a 20 degree day is a heat wave and by february you are praying for 20 degrees but count yourself lucky if it gets above zero. I think it helps being used to cold winters. Waking up to months of single digit temps or lower can be a depressing experience. .


 

you hit the nail on the head right here, my brother.
so true. and I agree with the rest, too, but this sums up my greatest adversary, my own thinking.


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## treevet (Oct 27, 2009)

How you layer is important as said. We're talking climbing here and not just grounding. You have to be able to pivot at the waist and anything rigid that is long sleeve is going to bind on your shoulders. That is why vests are great. You wear flexible stuff under them and they can be the windproof aspect without restricting movement.

I agree with the no hoodie. Some are better than others but most if you turn your head at least one eye is looking at hoodie material. That is why full headed ski hats (bacclava's (sp?) are the best and tuck them over a turtle neck. I love the cold, grew up in Buffalo partly too Beowulf, and we had snow over the front door every birthday in Feb., just don't add a lot of wind to it.

That was a real good post (Beowulf).


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## WolverineMarine (Oct 27, 2009)

Vet..I bet you feel spoiled now livin down in Cincy now as opposed to Buffalo..all warm and hardly any snow..LOL I used to date a girl down your way and she always used to say she laughed when I got dumped with snow and frozen up in the Toledo area..until she got it 3 times in a row..and we never saw diddley..LOL..needless to say..we dont date anymore..LOL This yr looks like it gonna be a loo loo of a winter already..stock up on whatever you guys need for the winter..think we're gonna need it..


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 27, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> -i'd rather work in 20 degrees all year around than 80 degrees. T.



I agree, as likely to many born in the northern half of North America. Neither of these would be my preference - I prefer 40 to 50.. but if only had two to choose from then 20 is better than 80 for hard work.


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## treevet (Oct 27, 2009)

WolverineMarine said:


> Vet..I bet you feel spoiled now livin down in Cincy now as opposed to Buffalo..all warm and hardly any snow..LOL I used to date a girl down your way and she always used to say she laughed when I got dumped with snow and frozen up in the Toledo area..until she got it 3 times in a row..and we never saw diddley..LOL..needless to say..we dont date anymore..LOL This yr looks like it gonna be a loo loo of a winter already..stock up on whatever you guys need for the winter..think we're gonna need it..



Felt real spoilt today. 50 degrees, no wind, pruned a big willow oak, no spikes of course. Used my new comfort saddle Buckingham Pinnacle Classic with suspenders and extra padding all over. Felt like a 30 something when just hit 60. Little bit of heaven. Man I love to climb.

Seems like that relationship was doomed Marine. If you gonna fight about the weather all the time what happens when you get to the serious stuff... like watchin the game.....:hmm3grin2orange:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> .....and always will...
> 
> Almost a line straight out of "Platoon".



Which they probably stole from someone who stole it from the British army and so on to the Roman Legion


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## WolverineMarine (Oct 27, 2009)

I WISH the weather and the game was what we fought about..LOL..I'm going back to school in January to be a cop..too many miles and old injuries from 15yrs in the service always acting up to do this full time anymore..I'll do it on the side..but its getting time to preserve what I have left so I dont end up crippled someday..LOL I LOVE the work and admire those of you that have done it for so long..but we all know how taxing it is on our body..I think this is gonna be my last winter playin Tarzan in the tree...


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## treevet (Oct 28, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Which they probably stole from someone who stole it from the British army and so on to the Roman Legion



Hey, imagine if you got into a fist fight with someone where both of you thought it was a pretty good reason to have at it.

You both are getting in some pretty good shots but you think that you will prevail in the long run because you have the harder shots or the most.

Well, along comes the wife or somebody and says.....hey, you are really hurting that guy. You don't have to stop fighting but you just have to stop hitting and only block shots.

Pretty easy to figure how that fight (and war) is gonna turn out.


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## Brushwacker (Oct 28, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> Feet: Warm feet are necessary-don't skimp on boots. You aren't going to be walking all day, so you need something insulated. JPS's layered socks is a great tip, but if one pair of socks makes your boots tight, go up a half size and wear a couple pairs. I don't know if it's true or just in my head, but a boot tight on the foot seems to keep my feet colder than one a little loose. As for steel toes, they've never bothered me but some people swear they are colder. Wesco insulated have always done the job for me. Tall socks, tall boots, jeans tucked into the boots to keep drafts down.
> 
> .



I remember in my early years my feet got real cold right of way until I learned to wear loose fitting boots. Real cold weather I like at least a full size or more bigger if wearing 2 pair of socks. I do better and often fine with 1 pair of socks in loose fit verses 2 pair of socks and a snug fit. Blood circulation seems to do a better job keeping things warm then tight fitting cloths restricting it and a loose fit allows more air for insulation and better control of moisture from persperation. I like a loose fit in all my cloths and layer according to wind chill temperature and activity.
I'll take cold extremes over hot extremes if I have a choice. Actually like the cold to a point.


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## ageniusforhire (Oct 28, 2009)

*Mittens*

"Mittens? on a climber? I need more than my thumb to climb." Hey, just a minuite, you were the one who responded as if you had never seen the trigger finger mittens. I was replying to you as if you had shot them down,without ever seeing any... as your statement about them would imply. By all means, use what you are comfortable with.Us climbers are all picky sob's anyway. When we find what we like,thats it. Just like trying to get a n old climber to change his climbing knot, or favorite climbing saw.Actually i have changed a lot over the years. When i started climbing, it was with an old green poulan s25, made without a chainbrake,and a kill switch that shocked you. And a few companies were still using manilla or hemp natural fiber climbing lines.Now its a throwball,ascenders,hi-v orange climbing line and a ms200t


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## treevet (Oct 28, 2009)

ageniusforhire said:


> "Mittens? on a climber? I need more than my thumb to climb." Hey, just a minuite, you were the one who responded as if you had never seen the trigger finger mittens. I was replying to you as if you had shot them down,without ever seeing any... as your statement about them would imply. By all means, use what you are comfortable with.Us climbers are all picky sob's anyway. When we find what we like,thats it. Just like trying to get a n old climber to change his climbing knot, or favorite climbing saw.Actually i have changed a lot over the years. When i started climbing, it was with an old green poulan s25, made without a chainbrake,and a kill switch that shocked you. And a few companies were still using manilla or hemp natural fiber climbing lines.Now its a throwball,ascenders,hi-v orange climbing line and a ms200t



For back then Super 25 DA Poulan was top shelf and manilla wasn't a bad climbing line. I preferred it to the 3 strand nylon/esterlon that came out before the braids.


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## J.S. (Oct 31, 2009)

One more thing bout the cold is if you chew dont forget to put your tin in your jacket, ive had my grizzly turn into perma-frost when ive left in my back pocket.


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## ageniusforhire (Nov 1, 2009)

*poulans*

Yea, the super was nice,when i finally got one. I still have one of the plain old s25's around somewhere,and it still runs.For climbing little stuff i use the little echo 301,and for bigger climbing, i use the stihl200t. The 192 is good,too, but not quite as much power.There are very few trees around here that require an 029 or 044 in the tree,thank God.Standing on spurs blocking down a trunk with an 044 is a literal pain. I hated those fiber ropes.I just didnt trust them. By 1987, i switched over to blue water special rappelling rope that my friends used rappelling,then on to the real arborists ropes with the next climbing line.


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## capetrees (Nov 1, 2009)

wrong thread genius :biggrinbounce2:


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## yooper (Nov 1, 2009)

capetrees said:


> wrong thread genius :biggrinbounce2:



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## treeslayer (Nov 3, 2009)

ageniusforhire said:


> There are very few trees around here that require an 029 or 044 in the tree,thank God.Standing on spurs blocking down a trunk with an 044 is a literal pain. .




Can't tell ya how many times I've had to reposition sideways while on spikes so the 24" or 36" bar will reach, a 660 in the tree is a beautiful thing.

If you can hold it, that is.


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## treevet (Nov 3, 2009)

ageniusforhire said:


> trees around here that require an 029 or 044 in the tree,thank God.Standing on spurs blocking down a trunk with an 044 is a literal pain.



Yeah that's when it's time to put on the saddle with the suspenders if ya got em.


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## treeslayer (Nov 3, 2009)

treevet said:


> Yeah that's when it's time to put on the saddle with the suspenders if ya got em.




so true. big saws up are only manageable when IN the wood.


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## RedlineIt (Nov 3, 2009)

For you hands, Pop a couple of www.Heatfactory.com packets in your gloves. 

They are about the size of a tea bag, last all day.

Even better, if it warms up just re-seal them and they keep their punch for the next cold day.

I get mine for about a buck-and-a-quarter for a pair.

Real nice, comfy hands.

RedlineIt


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## treeslayer (Nov 3, 2009)

RedlineIt said:


> For you hands, Pop a couple of www.Heatfactory.com packets in your gloves.
> 
> They are about the size of a tea bag, last all day.
> 
> ...



I like that.


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## IcePick (Nov 3, 2009)

When it's 15 degrees or below, I always wear my pair of stihl summer chainsaw pants underneath my carhartt bibs. It's toasty and effecient. Also my saddle fits real nice and snug. Then I just layer the upper body as necessary. 

Man I can't wair for some winter tree work!


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