# Steps to making to bus. succesful



## daveyclimber (Dec 13, 2005)

*Steps to making a business succesful*

I am planning on starting up my own business around the first of the year . I know the ins and outs of the business having nearly 10 years experience. My partner also has 10 years experience . What are some ways to diversify your business along with the tree aspect , I already have a stump grinding business and have also thought of rain gutter cleaning and installing barriers . I seen an ad in a recent paper about tree services installing X-mas lights to help make it through the holidays . We basically have no credit as we have both filed for bankruptcy in previous years . I am getting a loan from my parents , they are doing an equity loan on their home in the amount of $100,000 . What are some ways of protecting them and their assets . I figure $75,000 will about cover all of the equipment if we buy smart . The remaining $$ will be used as cushion money until things get up to speed , also some of this money will be used for advertising . What types of advertising do you guys use other than phone books and word of mouth.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 13, 2005)

http://www.gmarketing.com/


http://www.joegirard.com/books.html



The principles taught on these two web sites are applicable to ANY business.


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## darkstar (Dec 13, 2005)

Stay away from loans for a bit bro. It only took us 3 years - to go from a old pick up and a chain saw with rope to having 3 chippers ,one bucket truck ,2 large chip trucks and one awesome loader , all totally owned and payed for [[[[[from climbing and then humping trees to the tip]]]]]]. Sell your self not your gear . Diversity and advertising only takes a little creativity and will be specific to your area .


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## PTS (Dec 13, 2005)

darkstar said:


> Stay away from loans for a bit bro. It only took us 3 years - to go from a old pick up and a chain saw with rope to having 3 chippers ,one bucket truck ,2 large chip trucks and one awesome loader , all totally owned and payed for [[[[[from climbing and then humping trees to the tip]]]]]]. Sell your self not your gear . Diversity and advertising only takes a little creativity and will be specific to your area .




I have to agree. I started with a $250 old pickup truck, a free truck box trailer borrowed chainsaw and a borrowed hedge trimmer. Now I got it all and it has only been about two years. Start small!!! Buy when you can afford it. My first purchase was my own saws and then a dump trailer, from there it was another truck, a bucket truck, skid loader, chipper and chipper truck, stump grinder and then we started doubling up. The less you owe the less control others have on your business. We needed some extra cash once and my parents gave us $25,000. Every time I looked at expanding or upgrading I had to listen to my dad say sounds good when you get everything else paid off. Got real old hearing that.


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## ASD (Dec 13, 2005)

darkstar said:


> Stay away from loans for a bit bro. It only took us 3 years - to go from a old pick up and a chain saw with rope to having 3 chippers ,one bucket truck ,2 large chip trucks and one awesome loader , all totally owned and payed for [[[[[from climbing and then humping trees to the tip]]]]]]. Sell your self not your gear . Diversity and advertising only takes a little creativity and will be specific to your area .



davy climber slow down a bit we also started with a 09 stihl an 036 stihl a 1974 Chevy 3/4 ton up(about $5000 in gear). and rented a chipper as needed for the first 8 months it's been 6 years and we now have over 1mill worth of equipment and keep 10 people working 40hr.+ all year long.

put add in the Ph.book
if you have any friends in real estate have they get you some mailing lists and send out some post cards.


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## daveyclimber (Dec 13, 2005)

I can agree with the loan thing , however the payments will be low ,30 year loan with no prepayment penalty 6.6% interest. We really must start out with the good equipment to stand out from the large number of pickup truck trimmers . Don't get me wrong , There aint a tree that we can't climb and take down succesfully . A job with the right equipment will equate to lower bids and more volume. I want to start out with more than a pickup truck , been doing that on the side for years and it will not give you the credit it deserves around here . My payment for the loan is only gonna be 750 or so , when business picks up after a couple of months we can afford to make double payments and such. My current boss has offered to sell me his business in three years but I am not willing to wait for broken promises , Been working for him for close to 4 years and he still cant get me work everyday .Worked for Davey for 7.5 yrs I have the knowledge and ambition ,just hope I dont have to rely on luck.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 13, 2005)

daveyclimber said:


> I can agree with the loan thing , however the payments will be low ,30 year loan with no prepayment penalty 6.6% interest. We really must start out with the good equipment to stand out from the large number of pickup truck trimmers . Don't get me wrong , There aint a tree that we can't climb and take down succesfully . A job with the right equipment will equate to lower bids and more volume. I want to start out with more than a pickup truck , been doing that on the side for years and it will not give you the credit it deserves around here . My payment for the loan is only gonna be 750 or so , when business picks up after a couple of months we can afford to make double payments and such. My current boss has offered to sell me his business in three years but I am not willing to wait for broken promises , Been working for him for close to 4 years and he still cant get me work everyday .Worked for Davey for 7.5 yrs I have the knowledge and ambition ,just hope I dont have to rely on luck.




I hear a bankruptcy being planned. I'm serious, Davey. You are doomed if you don't change your thinking. 

Tools are just tools. They won't make you successful.

Debt is a more dangerous tool than a chainsaw. It's even MORE dangerous to those who don't recognize the danger. You're like a newbie with a 440 and a full chisel chain, with no training and no PPE.


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## ASD (Dec 13, 2005)

ok if you want to jump in with both feet what do you want to start out with ?? i am selling off some of are stuff

2004 vermeer bc1000 12" chipper
2000 vermeer sc252 stump grinder
2004 vermeer sc750 stump grinder
1999 ud chip/dump
2000 int bucket forestry package


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## skwerl (Dec 13, 2005)

Good luck DC. I have to admit I'm jealous that you have a $100K advantage over me and most everyone else here starting out. Most of us wouldn't know how to start and successfully build a business with that kind of windfall head start. Many of us have seen newcomers with lots of money and no idea how to run a business and we've watched them fail. I guess most of us believe that the beginning years when we struggled with little money are what motivated us to work harder and become successful. Money can't buy the intangibles, and many of us built our businesses on those intangibles that we acquired through blood, sweat and tears shed trying to survive in those early years.

I certainly wish you all the best. Sounds like you got a sweet setup coming your way. 


edit: Oh, if you have $75K in tree equipment then you certainly have no business hiring yourself out cleaning people's gutters. That's a job for the neighborhood teenagers and pre-teens.


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## Dadatwins (Dec 13, 2005)

I have to say I would not be to happy having the word bankruptcy in any business plan either. It takes more than equipment and borrowed $$$ to run a business, you need to know how to manage your assets and build up your clientel. Another red flag I see you are already willing to low bid on your jobs just to get them. Better to offer quality work at a fair price and get recomended by your clients. You do not want to be known as the low-ball tree service especially with a 100k note to pay off. There will always be a low baller around that will beat your price, but make sure they can't beat the quality of work. You say you have a partner ready but YOUR parents are putting up the $$$. What provisions have you to made to make sure if your partner decides in a few months to break off and go on his own, that YOUR loan will get paid while you look for help. I wish you the best of luck, but I see a few problems with your plan that would scare me.


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## daveyclimber (Dec 13, 2005)

The bankruptcies were not due to mismanagement of money ,they were from a mis managed marriage , I did not say i was going to under bid everyone , wht I guess i meant to say is It is possible to do your job faster and have less expendetures with the proper equipment . If I had to climb at tree I would charge more than if I could use a lift. My current boss however thinks he can charge 1500 a day and doesnt want to go less than that . That is why he only works me 2-3 days a week .Youy might be saying 1500 sounds fair enough until you factor in me and two other ground guys . lift truck and chipper for 4-5 hrs of work . Everytime I bid for him we work more during the week , his take home ends up being higher everybody is happy including the customer . I charge comparable prices , not cut throat or rip off prices . I know that I will be working everyday and making profit everyday within the first 6 months . I'm not just a climber , I have my own legit stump grinding business and have had other business experiences as well . Fact of the matter is my boss would have went under a couple of years ago if it werent for me working for him . If I can have the ability to turn his business around I can surely do well for myself . I know it isn't going to be all roses , i can see alot of hard times , but you will never find anyone out there who will give it everything it takes , I know I can do it ,and frankly that is why my parents offered to help .I am glad I am getting so many respones out of you guys . Learning by others mistakes and getting good advice go along way in helping me


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## xander9727 (Dec 13, 2005)

First and foremost I do not recommend partnerships. Historically they have lead to problems. So work, most don't. If you are set on a partnership I strongly suggest an LLC. That way you get the tax benefits of a sole prop. but you are protected. Starting off looking like a hack makes you a hack. Buy the best equipment you can afford. By that I mean what you can afford to pay the note on when you are slow, afford to maintain and repair and afford to keep busy. There is nothing wrong with renting the equipment you don't use every day. Most residential tree work can be done without a bucket truck. You can get a lot more chips in a truck without a lift so you'll need fewer trucks on large jobs. If you get a business line phone number you will be listed in a yellow pages you just won't have an advertisement. Definately buy a chipper. 
Hope this helps. Feel free to email or PM me if you have questions. I've been on my own for 3.5 years and I started in an area I hadn't lived in for 12 years so I had very few contacts. I now have 3 trucks, a 15" chipper, a skid steer, 2 stump grinders, 13 saws, a spray rig, a 4wd tractor with a loader, several trailers and a lot of rigging gear and tools.
It can be done but it is not easy.........and it won't happen working 40 hours per week.


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## xander9727 (Dec 13, 2005)

daveyclimber said:


> The bankruptcies were not due to mismanagement of money




Sorry to point this out.........but aren't all bankruptcies due to poor money managment?


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## daveyclimber (Dec 13, 2005)

xander9727 said:


> Sorry to point this out.........but aren't all bankruptcies due to poor money managment?




Ya know , I guess that is a true point . Damn those ex wives It is not really a partnership , just good friends going to business together , I can see possible senerios where things might ruffle ,but in the end the money is gonna be mine to manage and mine to spend , my name is going to be on the business account and I will be making the calls . Already discused that part of it . We have worked together for 10 years , moonlighting while working for Davey Tree and have never had an issue . Hell, we rarely have to talk to eachother on the job we know our place and what needs to be done.However we will both be getting contractors licsenses and filing for a joint licsense , anybody see any issues with that ? Point is to limit workers comp costs and of course be an upstanding business. Xander , thanks for your positive input , you gave me a bit more inspiration. You taken any business classes ? I have been following what you have posted here lately and you seem to have a true grasp on business


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## xander9727 (Dec 14, 2005)

Thank you for the kind words.
I have taken business courses in college but I learn more from talking to successful business owners and those who have failed. I try to avoid the failure pit falls and model the success stories. Additionally, I constantly am reading and trying to find ways to improve myself and my business.


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## sotc (Dec 14, 2005)

theres a lot of good advice here, especially what xander has said about llc's and partnerships. seriously look into an llc and for goodness sake get a partnership agreement in writing!! it your parents money and the way it is now he can spend it all and leave. he can actuall get YOU into debt and leave, even with bad credit! good luck my freind


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 14, 2005)

daveyclimber said:


> If I can have the ability to turn his business around I can surely do well for myself .



It's easy to think so when you haven't actually done it. (And you haven't.) You aren't running his business and you aren't paying his overhead. There's more to business than GETTING business.


Speaking of partnerships, I had a friend who was making megabucks as a partner in a Mercedes repair shop. They were in San Francisco, did good work, and marketed well to the rich folks. Everything was great.

One day his partner offered to buy him out. He said no.

Came to work a few weeks later to find the locks changed. A sherriff handed him some papers. He was out.

Out. Not one dime. Not a legal leg to stand on.

Seems he didn't read the fine print. If a partner offers to buy out, you've to two choices, sell or buy. Do neither, and your partner owns you by default.

If you go ahead with this foolish venture, at least make sure you know what the laws are in your state. Make sure you read YOUR contract.

And have pity on your parents. They might want to retire some day. They shouldn't have that ruined by you. Find another way to do this.


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## wpbgent (Dec 14, 2005)

davey, write out a business plan (thoroughly) and model it on the premise of "BARE MINIMUM"... Make it your challange to do it at the absolute minimum! See what you can come up with... Don't forget to include different means of advertising, rained out days, vehicle / equipment failures, NON paying customers... etc


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## Koa Man (Dec 14, 2005)

To get my business going, I worked 70-80 hours a week and 7 hours a day for 5 years. I had a full time job with an airline with 2 weekdays off and worked the afternoon shift. I worked this business in the mornings till noon on my regular workdays and all day on my airline days off. So I had a steady source of income while I built the business up. The hardest part is getting a big enough customer base to support your business. It will take time and you will need to be committed to stick with it. It will not be easy. I quit working for the airlines and went full time into the tree business in 1988. I look back at the 5 years of struggle and it was well worth it. I am always busy, booked out 4 to 6 weeks in advance and still turning down 3-4 jobs a week because I am too busy. At this point I thought I would be working just 4 days a week and have 3 days off. It has gotten worst and a lot of times I am working 6 days a week. Hopefully when my son-in-law joins me in Feb. 2006 after he gets out of the service I can get my 3 days off.

The rewards of owning a successful business is great, but the pitfalls and risks are many. Be committed to do whatever it takes and you will be successful (assuming you have good business skills). Do a good clean up of the yards....people like that and think that is what a good tree service is all about.


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## howel07264 (Dec 14, 2005)

Davey,forget the partner unless he has 100k to invest also.think CASH FlOW,you said you will be making a profit within 6 months, you better be making a profit from day 1. just because you have all the equipment does not mean jobs.invest in advertising first with just enoungh equipment to get the job done. you can always add equipment as your buss. increases. NEVER attempt to be lowest bidder in town. HAD YOU RATHER DO TWICE THE WORK FOR HALF THE PRICE OR HALF THE WORK FOR TWICE THE PRICE? i know which one i would choose.another thing, dont take 100k lump sum,have them get a line of credit to be used ONLYas needed.


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## howel07264 (Dec 14, 2005)

davey, invest in advertising first. THINK CASH FLOW. you said you hope to make profit in 6 months, better make that from day 1! never try to be lowest bidder. HAD YOU RATHER DO TWICE THE JOBS FOR HALF THE PRICE OR HALF THE JOBS FOR TWICE THE PRICE? I KNOW WHAT I WOULD CHOOSE. dont take 100k lump sum,leads to bad investment decisions. have your parents get 100k line of credit to be used as needed for equipment purchases as your buss. grows.think long and hard before having a partner and dont even consider unless he has 100k to put up too!


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## howel07264 (Dec 14, 2005)

sorry for the double post ,thought i had hit wrong key...reposted


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 14, 2005)

You're nuts to borrow money from your parents to start a business. 
Now if your parents are very well off, and thinking of the loan as more of a gift, then I'd say go ahead. Anytime you borrow money from, or loan it to, family or good friends, then think of it as gift. If your parents can't afford it to be a gift, come up with a new plan.
I would say most of the successful tree companies I know about, were started from scratch, profits re-invested, and credit slowly built. By slowly building a company, you learn how do deal with the operation's scale at a slowly increasing pace. 
You already have a stump grinding business, so you have saws, trucks, and other tools. You climb, so I assume you have basic climbing and rigging gear. All you really need at this point is a chipper and chip truck, maybe just a chip box on an existing truck. I've worked for start up companies that chipped into non-dumping, home made, plywood boxes. After a few weeks of that, you'll end up using the profits for an old, used, 5 ton dump, then in time a newer dump.
I've also run old used chippers, they get the job done and can be had for a couple, two, three thousand dollars. They can also be updated as the profits roll in.
A lot of tree companies don't own bucket trucks. If you need one, rent it. If there's not enough profit in a job to cover rental, bid the bucket work higher.


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## xander9727 (Dec 14, 2005)

Being the lowest bidder is bad! I got a call from a large property management company to bid a clearance prune. I bid the job at $1250. They called back and said the other 2 bids were $800 and $950. They said they wanted to use me but could pay no more than $950. I knew that if I did the work for less than $1125 I would be losing money (think big picture profit not for the day). Work is slowing down and I could use the cash flow but I know that if I work at or below the profit margin I'm really losing money (won't have money for equipment replacement, unexpected repairs, new gear purchases, etc.). I told them I could not lower my price that I would lose money. They said OK and asked me to bid on 3 removals. I did the bid and called them with the price. He told me to schedule the first job for $1250 and that he would let me know about the other job today. He said he didn't feel comfortable with the other company. I got the work with the original price, I would have done it for a loss had I lowered my price. Now the lesson here is to know what you have to charge.......down to the penny. Use your formula every time. You will have the most competative price you can give and still make the NECESSARY amount of profit to continue to thrive and grow. If you guess you will either be too low or high the majority of the time. Too low means a loss, too high and you risk being labeled a gouger or missing out on a lot of work. You must know your cost before you can bid anything.
Charles Vander Kooi puts on a very good estimating workshop. It cost about $1500 for the three day but it is worth 10 times that. I strongly suggest that all business owners attend this or a similar one no matter where you are in business. It is essential that you develop a costing plan and a budget to ensure success and manage growth.


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## daveyclimber (Dec 14, 2005)

Keep it coming guys , lots of interesting and valid points . As i stated in an earlier post he is not going to really be a partner , more along the lines as my employee and partner in the actual labor aspect . Not his money , So I will make the calls ,my parents will have input in how the money is best distributed . I like the idea of a credit line and will see what I can do to find out more about that. My Equipment plans are fairly straight forward , Forestry unit , chipper , and a decent 3/4 or 1 ton pickup preferably with a flat bed . Maybe one more saw and rope , have 6 good saws already and 75% of the climbing and rigging gear already . My purchases will be budget minded however I will be spending a considerable amount to make sure I have good equipment and not something I will have to repeatedly fix over and over . A lift is a very valuable piece of equipment in my area , only a half dozen tree services have one in a three county radius and there are about 3 dozen tree services most are pickup truck trimmers . I also know how to bid , I bid fair and I bid profitable . In my county there is only two tree service that i consider a real competion , I currently work for one and the other does terrible work and he is the lowballer . I would consider keeping the job that i currently have while starting up, however I know I will get fired when the boss finds this out. He will be no competion as he will have to close shop or his job capacity will be seriously reduced as he will not find another capable employee as myself


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 14, 2005)

Mike Maas said:


> You're nuts to borrow money from your parents to start a business.
> Now if your parents are very well off, and thinking of the loan as more of a gift, then I'd say go ahead. Anytime you borrow money from, or loan it to, family or good friends, then think of it as gift. If your parents can't afford it to be a gift, come up with a new plan.




That's very good advice. The best way to wreck a friendship or a family is to start loaning money.

If you absolutely MUST do this, do it in a completely businesslike fashion. Written contract, everything spelled out.

But only AFTER making sure that MENTALLY your parents are counting this as a gift. The ATTITUDE says "gift", the contract should say "hard-hearted, cold-blooded business".

The best way to keep friendships friendly is to keep business businesslike.


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## daveyclimber (Dec 14, 2005)

If you absolutely MUST do this, do it in a completely businesslike fashion. Written contract, everything spelled out.


The best way to keep friendships friendly is to keep business businesslike.[/QUOTE]


I agree and plan to consult an attorney


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## xander9727 (Dec 14, 2005)

That's a good idea. Let them know they are investing in a venture that may or may not work. That way they are prepared for possible failure but can always say........"I knew you could do it" when you succeed.


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## TimberMcPherson (Dec 15, 2005)

Match the gear to the work, not the work to match the gear. when things get quiet (and things always do sometime) that extra outgoing $ on paying for that shiny new bit of gear may be the difference between treading water and talking to the big fish.

Ive worked in a few industrys as well as having my own tree co now, guys that pop up with flash gear tend to dissappear as impressively as there over stretched finances sink them like a stone. 
 
Only you can make the judgement on how strong the market is where you are, dont make it recklessly


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 15, 2005)

daveyclimber said:


> I agree and plan to consult an attorney




Oh, that's good clean fun! Let me toss in a few:

*
Q: What do you call 25 attorneys sky-diving?

A: Skeet.



Q: What do you call 658 lawyers up to their necks in cement?

A: Not enough cement! 



Q: What do you call....
*


What?  


Oh, you said *CON*sult.

My bad. Nevermind....





 



I still think you're headed for a train wreck....


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## darkstar (Dec 15, 2005)

*?*

Man with all the equipment you have, i just dont see why you need to go buy anything on loan right now. You can make the cash for a great truck and chipper in less than a year by just using what you have now . 
Why not just go out and find enough jobs and buy you what you want ? If you really look hard for jobs i think you could raise close to 7000- 10,000 a month but you are gonna have to really bust your butt finding them . That is perhaps the only easy thing aboout owning and starting a tree buisness . You dont have to have hardly any cash on hand to quickly be on your way . 
It would be eaiser to make the cash with a new truck and chipper but you might like it better knowing you are actually owning and earning your stuff as you go . Most guys ive known only borrowed money when they were finally losing so much work they have to buy more equipment to get the jobs done . This, ive seen mostly when large ROW contracts were involved .
With what youve got right now [the knowledge to take down trees] and the tools , by the end of next month you could already own a darn nice chipper . Another month and youve got a pretty decent chip truck . Think about it . All you really need is jobs .. get the jobs and get them done anyway you can, youll very soon have the cash. Thats when its kinda tuff cause its your hard earned cash and youll be buying huge chunks of metal ie chipper etc. . Then youll need more jobs ...and on an on an on .....seriously just give yourself one month to find and accopmplish as many jobs as you can ..... Its fun


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 15, 2005)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> That's very good advice. The best way to wreck a friendship or a family is to start loaning money.
> 
> If you absolutely MUST do this, do it in a completely businesslike fashion. Written contract, everything spelled out.
> 
> ...



You seem to be contradicting yourself here, pretend like it's a gift but have a lawyer draw up a contract.
This first clause of the contract should be what happens when (if) the loan defaults. It should read something like, "If I mess up, you won't be getting your money back."
Then have a seperate little line where they have to initial it, so they understand there is a good chance they won't be getting the money back.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm talking about two different things. The ATTITUDE on the part of the parents ought to be, "Kiss this money goodbye. It's a gift and it's not coming back."

So when it doesn't, no hard feelings. They've already let go of it.

On HIS part, it's a cold-blooded business deal. Everything documented, every angle covered, just as with any business deal. This reduces misunderstandings to a minimum, and gives a basis for reaching common ground if there IS a misunderstanding.


So the parents sign the papers with the ATTITUDE that they are GIVING this money, and Davey signs the papers with the ATTITUDE that this is a business loan.

In BOTH cases, they are signing business documents. Everything spelled out. Nothing left to assumption.

What usually happens in these situation is the opposite. Nothing is put in writing. Children treat it as a gift - after all, it's from Mom & Dad, right? Parents think it's a loan.

The result is ugly.


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## ABOVE & BEYOND (Dec 15, 2005)

DaveyClimber, I too am starting my own business in the northeast and taking out a loan for a little more than what you plan to take out. All of these people have made some great suggestions to both you and I. As you can see, I do not disagree with taking out a loan, but I do disagree with taking a loan from family members. That is a sure way to end a relationship if your business does not survive. Also, it is absolutely critical that you develop a business plan and model to determine your breakeven points and revenue margin. If you do this properly, you will not have to worry about miss quoting and losing money. Taking in $800 a day may sound great, but it will never cover your loan or future expensese. Like I said, build a model and work your model. For the last several months, I have been crunching numbers and models to start my business. I have been in touch with accountants that have access to other tree service's income statements, (all of the info. was confidential so I have no clue who the companies were) which have helped me tremdously in terms of expense planning and business forecasting. When you build your model, always lean towards the high side of expenses because no matter how much you work the info. you will miss some expenses. 
My only other advice is this......if you are taking out a loan to buy the right equipment, make sure you market yourself as a professional with the right equipment. In other words, don't buy expensive equipment and run the business like a "one truck wonder". Good luck to you and thank you to all who have had some insight in this thread.

Geoff


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## okietreedude1 (Dec 16, 2005)

Davey,,

I too have recently started out on my own. I came from a co. that had multiple buckets, chippers, stumpers etc. Since I just have my truck and trailer and a sm stumper, work has taken a lot longer. It is really hard to resist the temptation to go buy that chip truck and chipper, but im trying to wait till spring when business picks back up. Its hard too since I KNOW how much faster work goes w/ the right equip. 

I noticed someone said buying a chipper first, well hogwash, buy the truck first w/o a top. at least youll have a truck that can dump brush untill the chipper comes in.

As for the loan, Ive considered going and getting one too. But Id go to a bank instead. Ive had too much experience loaning money to 'relatives' and never seeing a dime of it back. Maybe use them as a co-signer if you need the financial backing.

My thanks too for all the positive imput from others.


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## Koa Man (Dec 16, 2005)

If you already have at least a 3/4 ton truck, you might consider getting a dump trailer if you decide to start real small to test the waters. Even a 6X10 trailer with 5-6 ft. high sides will hold a considerable amount of brush if you mulch it up with a chain saw. If you can get a bigger trailer, even better. You pick up bed can carry all the gear you need. This way, for an investment of about $6000, you have something to start with and that will also be easy to sell if you decide it won't work out after a couple of months.


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## a_lopa (Dec 17, 2005)

making money is a good way to start


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## Pollock777 (Dec 17, 2005)

Daveyclimber I Just work on weekends for other tree services mostly just 1 the 1 I helped my old boss start. But I do alot of grinding and I started with a 1 ton chevy truck and a homelite XL2,C-72,and a 2900farmboss. Now I own 4grinders 2 chippers and 18 chain saws plus 1ton dully dump and all of my gear and I just work on weekends. Just work hard and be far and the WORK WILL find YOU. P.S. I had to do this Because of my ex-wife N.J.sucks when it comes to Giving the ex-wife everything they get everything!!!


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## daveyclimber (Dec 17, 2005)

Thanks Guys , You are a wealth of knowledge. How large are the areas that some of you cover .I am planning of covering three counties , I'd sayabout 60sq miles , the town I live in is about 13,500 people with two larger 75,000ish towns thirty miles to either side. Of course I will try to stay as local as I can but I feel I will need to broaden my area for a while


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 17, 2005)

daveyclimber said:


> How large are the areas that some of you cover .I am planning of covering three counties , I'd sayabout 60sq miles , the town I live in is about 13,500 people with two larger 75,000ish towns thirty miles to either side. Of course I will try to stay as local as I can but I feel I will need to broaden my area for a while




Davey, take a look at TreeCo's comments on this, _starting _with this post.



Follow it through - there's some food for thought there.



Oh, did I mention that you should start small and NOT borrow from your parents?


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 18, 2005)

Ooops! Sorry, TreeCo. Didn't mean to insult you. Or was that a compliment?

 


 


Anyway, he should CONsult that thread for some good advice.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Oct 18, 2007)

I've read every reply and never any mention of what you do after working only 2 or 3 days a week for your present employer. I assume you work for yourself, underbidding your bosses leads ? So that said : No mention of setting aside money for taxes, equipment maintenence, repair & parts. Licenses, insurance , rainy day fund or what happens if I fall or other serious injury preventing preventing me from working ? I have 2 sons myself & would do just about anything for them ! I don't think either one of them would ever ask my wife or I to put our life's work in jepordy. I truly beleive this is what you are doing by asking for their $ 100,000 line of credit. I can't speak for everyone but go out & earn the money, save up & make equipment purchases as neccessary. GOOD LUCK TO YOU !


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Oct 18, 2007)

If you do the equity loan against the house, then take out a LIFE INSURANCE POLICY for the total amount plus interest $ 135,000 and make your father beneficiary ! PROTECT HIM ! You had better consider taking WORKERS COMP. Include yourself based on payroll & also take out a MAJOR MEDICAL POLICY ! PAY ALL THE PREMIUMS ONE YEAR IN ADVANCE FOR THE LIFE OF THE EQUITY LOAN. You had better get the insurance the DUCK appears in as a cushion, just in case. GOOD LUCK !


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