# Harbour Freight Mill



## rarefish383 (Sep 19, 2010)

I tried searching HF mill and came up with nothing. I know it was brought up not too long ago. Someone said it looked like and Oscar 18? Did anyone ever give it a try? I sold one of my old cars and was thinking about buying a little Oscar. The HF is only a couple hundred bucks cheaper, and if it's a Chinese knock off, the Oscar would probably be a better buy, thinking of future resale. Any other thoughts on a small band mill in the 2K range? Thanks, Joe.


----------



## qbilder (Sep 19, 2010)

Use their site search & look up "sawmill". The one they have now is more like a woodmizer lt10. Looks pretty awesome for the cash.


----------



## gemniii (Sep 19, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> I tried searching HF mill and came up with nothing. I know it was brought up not too long ago. Someone said it looked like and Oscar 18? Did anyone ever give it a try? I sold one of my old cars and was thinking about buying a little Oscar. The HF is only a couple hundred bucks cheaper, and if it's a Chinese knock off, the Oscar would probably be a better buy, thinking of future resale. Any other thoughts on a small band mill in the 2K range? Thanks, Joe.


Well at least you wrote you TRIED searching. The following diatribe was written while bored:

Please excuse the rambling but I'm in an emergency room for what seems to be a non-emergency of a family member so I'm going to try to put some facts down.

There are two recent main threads on the HF mill.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=147087&highlight=woodmizer

and 
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121027&highlight=oscar

I've been following the HF offering since 2009.

The OLD one, made by Hud-Son had many good reports by actual users. All said it was lightweight and would not stand on it's own. On another forum many users who had never seen it trashed it and compared it poorly to the Woodmiser LT-10, which at that time was going for near $4,000. About the only report I read by someone that knew sawmills and had seen one, but not used one, said it was to light to last.
Since then I've read at least 10 reports by users of the mill that said it does what's expected. Unlike many of the portable mills that can be mounted on trailers it definitely needs a stronger base. My concept is (if I get one after my back issue is resolved) to cut a couple of 6x6 timbers to start and make a level base.

The NEW one as discussed in qbilders's thread looks like a bigger more robust head. And MIGHT BE a repainted Woodmizer. On another forum some continue to trash it, with no actual hands on experience.

Unfortunately for me the HF mill has now dropped to near the price of an 880. If my back gets fixed I will continue to mill, now I have to decide:

Here's what I view as the low end, portable devices to make trees into lumber: With prices and comments.
There 
660 CSM setup - $800 w/used PH (Powerhead) , $1200 w/new PH (my investement - saw w/42: B&C $600, $200 Alaskan Mark III) good, got one, can mill a 30" tree. Great support

RipSaw - BSM w/ a CS PH $1,000 plus, needs a 360 or better PH so say at least $1300. Limited to 14" boards, highly portable, sparse support.


880 CSM setup - probably $1,500 for a used setup, $2,00 for new. The advantage of the 880 is I can probably mill a 5' tree. Great support.

HF BSM setup - $1,600 to $2,000 + tx/sh looks great especially if I can score and use an HF 20% off coupon. Expect only moderate support if any.

Oscar 118 - $2,200 - looks good, established mfg, good support etc., might be able to pick up at factory.

Lumbersmith - $2,300? - very portable, good reports by users, looks like lots of setup accuracy required.

Woodmizer LT10 - $3,000 - Hey, it's the industry leader EXCELLENT support, parts, service.
/edit - Woodmizer is an industry leader, not the LT-10, sorry.

From there on up your into brand name BSM's.

Lot's of HF stuff is cheap junk. This one looks like it may be a winner. 

Please buy me one to test 

Emergency over - family member will be fine.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't think anyone who has sawed on an Norwood LL24 side by side with a Mizer LT10 would call the LT10 an "industry leader". Mizer invented the LT10 because of LL24 sales, and has been playing catch up ever since. I have milled with them side by side and the LL24 was easily the winner.

I've also sawn on the smaller Hudson, and it wasn't near the saw the LT10 or the LL24 is. BUT, recently the LL24 has been replaced with a bigger stronger mill, and the price has went up because of it...

Please don't throw rocks at me for saying this, but i think the HF mill looks good to some of you, because you are use to a CSM, and any BSM will seem like a improvement to you. Even the HF mill is quieter, faster and much cheaper to own and run.

Lastly, to this day, i've heard more complaints about Hudson mills than any other, in fact more than all the others combined. But, they seem to be getting better.

Rob


----------



## gemniii (Sep 20, 2010)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I don't think anyone who has sawed on an Norwood LL24 side by side with a Mizer LT10 would call the LT10 an "industry leader".


I apologize, I meant Woodmizer was an industry leader in support.

The LL24 was GREAT, however, as Sawyer Rob wrote, it's not being sold new. I was attempting to compare current offerings near the price range of the HF mill and a CSM.

This thread was on small band mills in the 2K range


rarefish383 said:


> Any other thoughts on a small band mill in the 2K range? Thanks, Joe.



and all I knew of being produced for near $2K, besides the HF, as functional machines (not kits) were the Ripsaw, the Lumbersmith, and the Hud-Son. I only threw in the Woodmizer since it seems like Woodmizer is still selling it as a loss leader (didn't it's price used to be about $3.5K or $4K?), and the head of the HF looks like an LT10.


There are some newbies that think CSM stands for Cheap Saw Mill and BSM stands for Better Saw Mill. I view it as a spectrum from an adze to commercial mills. The $2K price range is where the transition seems to be now from CSM to BSM. It used to be higher. One year ago the LL24 kit was the lowest non-HF BSM I read about. Then both Hud-Son and Woodmizer dropped prices for their entry level mill, and Norwood raised theirs.

When Woodmizer introduced the LT10 in 2007:


> Wood-Mizer has revealed its smallest band sawmill LT10
> 13.02.2007
> Called the Wood-Mizer LT10 sawmill, it is priced 20% lower than the hitherto smallest by using a 5.5 kW electrically-powered motor.Within the price the LT10 band sawmill is able to incorporate the same thin kerf technology as the industrial mill and sawing quality is the same as its larger Wood-Mizer relatives.


Note the "20%" lower.
Now the LT15 starts at about $5.9K and the LT10 at $3K, ALMOST 50% lower.
And this thread is about $2K BSM's. I think the LT10 is a good mill for $3K. If the HF is an LT10 painted green it's even better at $2K.

and if I could use a 20% off coupon and get it for $1.6K it's GREAT


----------



## qbilder (Sep 20, 2010)

I don't saw with a CSM, so I don't have any experience with it. But I do A LOT of chain sawing & when I relate the milling to regular sawing, I cringe at the amount of time & money i'd have to spend in maintenance. I understand the guys that do it are doing because they love doing it. Not because it's cheaper or faster or quieter. Both types of saws have their place.

I also agree not all band mills are created equal. You get what you pay for, but as pointed out, it's getting cheaper. I have a small lumbersmith mill that I drag through the woods & saw on spot just like I would if it were a CSM. I paid a couple G's for it with a load of blades. The thing is the nuts for portability and what it can actually do. I milled two 16-20" diameter desert ironwood logs with it. It didn't like it much and I went through a few blades, but I am pretty certain it would never have happened with a CSM. I'm picking up a big tow along Linn mill in a couple weeks from a guy up north and looking forward to using that. It's gonna be around $6G's. That's a lot more than a CSM but I have used this model mill before & had good results cutting hard maple & ash. I cut a 36" diameter x 9' sugar maple log into 8/4 slabs in about 30 minutes once loaded. We loaded it with a tractor bucket onto the mill 10 minutes after felling the tree, and within the hour it was lumber. That was 5 years ago & I decided then i'd be getting into bandsawing instead of chainmilling. Now i'm at a point where I can buy a nice mid-level hobby saw outright and I have been MONTHS researching. For the amount of milling I do vs. the accuracy it has to be, I decided to go with a big Linn. I only cut a few logs per year but it's very hard woods & it has to be accurate lumber. 

Anyway, don't know how or why I went off on this babble. But point being, both types of saws have their place and i'm sure both are a lot of fun. It's all man work and it makes me feel good, strong, like I used to feel as a young man bailing hay & mending fences on the farm. Getting something done through hard work and being sleepy at the end of the day. No insomnia for me


----------



## rarefish383 (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks guys, I think I'm gonna hit some trade shows and see if I can get a deal on a demo. I'd prefer to get a name brand saw for resale value. I've got two 100 cc saws for my Granberg alaskan. I figured if I got a smal band mill I could always cut cants with the csm. I've actually got about 4K but much of it is dedicated to other projects. I could go 2500 or 3000. But, then you get into the " if I go just a little more, I can get ****" I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm still researchin. Thanks, Joe.


----------



## gemniii (Sep 20, 2010)

If you can stretch it to $3K then the WM LT-10 will have the best "quick" resale value down the road. The few LT-10's I've seen pop up on craigs and ebay were gone in a heartbeat.

I would not be surprised if Woodmizer raises their prices soon, from all comparisons it's a much better mill than the 
Hud-Son Oscar 121.

I just hit Hud-Son's site and they are announcing a price increase.

I'm one who takes forever to decide to get equipment, then rarely get rid of it, so I rarely consider "resale" value. 

And qbilder you disappoint me  - I had hoped you were going to take a chance on the HF.


----------



## BobL (Sep 20, 2010)

qbilder said:


> I milled two 16-20" diameter desert ironwood logs with it. It didn't like it much and I went through a few blades, *but I am pretty certain it would never have happened with a CSM.*



You'll have to reconsider your opinion on this. There are many Aussie CS millers milling timber that is as hard or harder and also bigger than 16-20".

This is a 24" Aussie Red Iron bark I milled in May this year.






Aussie red ironwood is 3% harder and 9% denser than desert ironwood. Yes it was very hard work and I had to touch up the chain between every cut, but I do this anyway on just about all the big logs I mill but that's how it is. There are many Aussie trees in this hardness range. Trees like Red and Grey Box and Wandoo are around 10% harder than desert ironwood. Have a look at this site that lists the top 125 hardest trees. 12 out of the top 20 hardest trees in the world are Australian.

What happens when CS millers tackle these trees is they either give up or get really good at sharpening.


----------



## qbilder (Sep 20, 2010)

BobL said:


> You'll have to reconsider your opinion on this. There are many Aussie CS millers milling timber that is as hard or harder and also bigger than 16-20".



Interesting. Nice looking stuff there. I was basing my opinion on the dullness of my chain just by bucking the three logs out of the one tree. I might add that it was long dead & very dry. It ate my saw up with just 3 cross cuts. I couldn't imagine the troubles of milling boards with it.


----------



## gemniii (Sep 20, 2010)

BobL said:


> You'll have to reconsider your opinion on this. There are many Aussie CS millers milling timber that is as hard or harder and also bigger than 16-20".
> 
> This is a 24" Aussie Red Iron bark I milled in May this year.
> 
> ...



BobL - 
Great link.
On your pic - is that wood fresh milled or is it touched up? The slab in the background looks a lot different color.


----------



## qbilder (Sep 20, 2010)

gemniii said:


> And qbilder you disappoint me  - I had hoped you were going to take a chance on the HF.



Was gonna, but the Linn mill I was looking at got cheaper while I procrastinated LOL. It got cheap enough that it made the decision for me. I might still pick up the HF mill at a later point & have it set up in Ohio, where the family owns a very old forested property. My brothers & old man both would use the heck out of it & i'd have a mill to use while there so I don't have to drag the larger one on a 26hr road trip.


----------



## BobL (Sep 21, 2010)

qbilder said:


> Interesting. Nice looking stuff there. I was basing my opinion on the dullness of my chain just by bucking the three logs out of the one tree. I might add that it was long dead & very dry. It ate my saw up with just 3 cross cuts. I couldn't imagine the troubles of milling boards with it.



I agree there is a difference green and dry, but I would still have a go with a CS mill at a dry 3000 lb Janka hardness log if it was only 20" in diameter. 

At 40" it can rot.


----------



## BobL (Sep 21, 2010)

gemniii said:


> BobL -
> Great link.
> On your pic - is that wood fresh milled or is it touched up? The slab in the background looks a lot different color.



The foreground log has water sprayed on it to highlight the grain. the background one has a layer of fine sawdust on it.


----------



## stipes (Sep 30, 2010)

*I been lookin at them myself,,and then think...*

Maybe you all can give your input on this as well....
I mill for my woodworking hobby and not for production,,to make me any money for a living...Bandsaw vrs. CSM.....
My thoughts on this one cause I been thinkin of a BSM...Then again would it be worth the money for my milling needs.....
First,,I would have to have something to load the logs on the mill,,,which I can,,but would take alot of work cause all I have is alittle Massey Ferguson 35 tractor and it can pull but lifting and loading will take front end weights to keep her down...Second,,this isnt for production,,so how many times will I be using this mill vers. the cost....
Now for the CSM...I can take it out anywheres and cut up some nice boards in a day without having to worry loadin it,,,cut on a hill side or any lay of the land and just cut it up right where it lays....Anyone with a CSM and a Mini Mill can cut a log up where it lays....Yeah it's time consuming,,but it make a damn nice day of it when you get done....
Mybe I can cut up in big cants and get me a BSM for the finish work.....So hard to decide...


----------



## gemniii (Oct 1, 2010)

You've got the saws, get a Mark III and and try it out.


----------



## DaltonPaull (Oct 14, 2010)

I've been looking at both the Harbour Freight and the LT10 and the only difference I can spot is the guides are different.

There are plenty of 20% coupons arround and suposadly they take them on phone orders so I think for $1600 you could do a lot worse for the money. Something like this setup with an electric motor in my shop would be pretty sweet.


----------



## AaronB (Oct 14, 2010)

DaltonPaull said:


> I've been looking at both the Harbour Freight and the LT10 and the only difference I can spot is the guides are different.
> 
> There are plenty of 20% coupons arround and suposadly they take them on phone orders so I think for $1600 you could do a lot worse for the money. Something like this setup with an electric motor in my shop would be pretty sweet.



Would love to hear some more reviews of them, doesn't seem to be to many owners. I would have to agree for a band mill the price seems good, just the question of quality and durability on heavy usage.


----------



## gemniii (Oct 15, 2010)

Reviews of even the old HF mill are hard to find.
As I posted in January:


gemniii said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=97445
> 
> I've seen this discussed on at least 5 forums. Sometimes the threads run VERY long.
> 
> ...



This did result in one review of the old model:


isaaccarlson said:


> It cuts ok and is made by hud-son. It motor sounds good, and starts every time. It depends more on torque than rpm so the blade only turns about 1800-2000 fpm. Would be easy to put bigger motor and widen frame.....when it warms up. It is a pretty good mill for 2000 dollars.
> I like that I can roll it into the bed of the truck and haul it ANYWHERE!!!! Just lean a piece of track on tailgate and push it in if you are etrong or use a pulley/come-a-long. Yes the tracks need to be on solid ground. I have been thinking of building a subframe though....


And one you tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s7qXwFaiao from this thread,

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121027


----------



## TNMIKE (Oct 15, 2010)

Shipping wasnt but 155 dollars to North Carolina. If this mill is any good its a great deal with the twenty percent off coupon.


----------



## rarefish383 (Oct 15, 2010)

Still looking around. The Hudson Oscar 118 is $2100 is the HF really a rebadged Oscar? I found one built in the Pacific North West called a Bookman. His small mill is a little bigger than the HF and is $1500. His 32" inch mill is $2700. His mills come without track. It looks like they run on inverted 2X2 angle iron, and he has them set up on beams with the angle on top. If I went this route I'd use 2X4 box steel and weld the angle on top. I'm gonna call him and see how flexable he is. I might like to get either mill with out an engine. I've got a couple of electric start 12hp Kohlers. If he runs the little mill on a 6.5, the 12 hp would have to be better. At least I found a youtube of him using the machaine, check it out, Joe.
http://www.bookmansbandsawmill.com/


----------



## Cmccul8146 (Oct 15, 2010)

That HF mill isn't a Hudson made mill, unless it's made to HF specs. If you'll notice, the Hudson mills are 4 post mills, & the HF is a 2 post model. Hudson 4 post is much more rigid. I have an Oscar 228 that I bought 3 years ago, and am well pleased with it. Have sawn thousands of BF of red oak, white oak, Eastern red cedar , yellow poplar & longleaf pine with it. 

Don't know about the HF mill warranty, but my Hudson had a 2 yr. warranty on the engine, pulleys & sheaves, welds & tracks and belts. 6 yr warranty on drive shafts & pillow block bearings. I'm quite sure the HF warranty won't come anywhere near what the Hudson has.


----------



## gemniii (Oct 15, 2010)

Cmccul8146


Cmccul8146 said:


> That HF mill isn't a Hudson made mill, unless it's made to HF specs. If you'll notice, the Hudson mills are 4 post mills, & the HF is a 2 post model. Hudson 4 post is much more rigid. I have an Oscar 228 that I bought 3 years ago, and am well pleased with it. Have sawn thousands of BF of red oak, white oak, Eastern red cedar , yellow poplar & longleaf pine with it.
> 
> Don't know about the HF mill warranty, but my Hudson had a 2 yr. warranty on the engine, pulleys & sheaves, welds & tracks and belts. 6 yr warranty on drive shafts & pillow block bearings. I'm quite sure the HF warranty won't come anywhere near what the Hudson has.


You are comparing grapes to raisins or old grapes. The FORMER HF mill that was being sold in January, and is the one in the referenced Youtube Video was made by Hud-Son, unless the company lied to me.

I thought this was all laid out in post #3 of this thread.
IF you are referring to the mill that was sold in January as


> That HF mill isn't a Hudson made mill,


 your wrong.
If you could take time to read the referenced thread:


gemniii said:


> Well I called the number on the manual, got thru to Hud-Son Forestry, I was told it's made in New York and to stop by and they could demo one.
> Looks like it's not "cheap chinese junk." But still doesn't confirm the quality of it.
> 
> My big interest it to mill relatively small trees and cants. Similar to what woodshop does with the RipSaw. But I can put it all in my FEL and work down making trails and lumber at the same time while being relatively low impact.
> ...




Plus they were selling them on ebay, at still a different price. When I called Hud-Son in January they sounded perturbed when I told them that a certain forum (not this one) was insisting it was "cheap chinese junk" since it was being sold by HF. 

If you are referring to the one presently being sold by HF when you write


> That HF mill isn't a Hudson made mill,


 you are correct, as far as I know. The blade guard seems to be cut like the woodmizer LT-10. But I've not been able to find a Woodmizer LT-10 manual to compare manuals, and I hesitate to call up Woodmizer.

And as far as


> If you'll notice, the Hudson mills are 4 post mills


If you'll notice the Hud-Son Oscar 118 (now $2,500 up $300 this week) (http://www.hud-son.com/Oscar_118_Hobby_Portable_Sawmill.htm) is a two post mill, NOT a four post.

and rarefish:


rarefish383 said:


> Still looking around. The Hudson Oscar 118 is $2100 is the HF really a rebadged Oscar? I found one built in the Pacific North West called a Bookman. His small mill is a little bigger than the HF and is $1500. His 32" inch mill is $2700. His mills come without track. It looks like they run on inverted 2X2 angle iron, and he has them set up on beams with the angle on top. If I went this route I'd use 2X4 box steel and weld the angle on top. I'm gonna call him and see how flexable he is. I might like to get either mill with out an engine. I've got a couple of electric start 12hp Kohlers. If he runs the little mill on a 6.5, the 12 hp would have to be better. At least I found a youtube of him using the machaine, check it out, Joe.
> http://www.bookmansbandsawmill.com/


Got it straight? Not a rebadged Hud-Son now. And the $118 price went up to $2495, per their site.
And as far as the bookman mill - check out http://lumbersmith.com/LS_Photos.html and also mill kits sold by several companies.

Look on "ebay" where you'll find a lot of these kits. And for anyone that needs an Oscar 18 there's one for sale for $1600.

However between a new Hud-Son 118 at $2,500 and a Woodmizer LT-10 at $3,000 I think the Woodmizer, w/ a larger throat wood  be worth it.


----------



## TNMIKE (Oct 15, 2010)

Here is the current HF mill manual. Id love to know who makes these

http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/67000-67999/67138.pdf


----------



## DaltonPaull (Oct 15, 2010)

rarefish383 - Thanks for the link to the bookman mill. I'll have to see if I can watch it run next time I'm up in Washington.


----------



## little possum (Oct 15, 2010)

Are you guys discussing the green mill at HF item number # 67138 

Looks pretty good, and Id really like a mill.


----------



## gemniii (Oct 16, 2010)

little possum said:


> Are you guys discussing the green mill at HF item number # 67138
> 
> Looks pretty good, and Id really like a mill.


Yes, read the thread. They sold a yellow one in January of 2010 which was made by Hud-Son. I have not been able to determine who makes the present one.


----------



## little possum (Oct 17, 2010)

The price is very tempting. I talked to a guy that had built his own bandsaw and said he had about 1000$ and most of that was the motor


----------

