# cinching anchor



## Plasmech (Oct 16, 2009)

*cinching anchor knot*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fZH4DrnHnM&feature=related

Interesting. I was using the figure 8 myself.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 16, 2009)

I use a bowline with a caribiner with a rope eye , it has been tied on that rope for a year and is soo tight now that I have trouble breaking it ,so It's an ANSI standard and not necessarily the norm


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## outofmytree (Oct 20, 2009)

Double or triple fishermans loop will solve all your problems. Easy to tie. Errors easy to spot even when tired. "Grabs" your karabiner. Easy to untie by slipping off the karabiner and "rolling" the wraps over the bight. Unlike an anchor hitch, the tail points back up the climbing line.


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## Plasmech (Oct 20, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Double or triple fishermans loop will solve all your problems. Easy to tie. Errors easy to spot even when tired. "Grabs" your karabiner. Easy to untie by slipping off the karabiner and "rolling" the wraps over the bight. Unlike an anchor hitch, the tail points back up the climbing line.



Just mastered the DFL last night. Can do it with my eyes closed. Next I need to cut my arm off with my 361 and see if I can still do it.


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## Plasmech (Oct 20, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> The anchor hitch is the best!
> 
> Easy to tie, easy to untie, very compact and easy to visually inspect.
> 
> In the traditional climbing system tied three feet or so from the end of the line.....it points right back to the climber and that is another advantage.



It's great for a non-split tail / Blake's hitch rig too the way the rope routes. Ever try the anchor hitch with 3 wraps?


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## Rftreeman (Oct 20, 2009)

That makes sense, I'm old fashion and still using a double D-ring saddle and a locking snap with a bowline (when I climb) I used to use a non locking snap until it came off one of my D-rings when I twisted 180 degrees from my TIP, this was some years ago and pretty scary.

What do you guys think about using a clove hitch with a biner?


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## Plasmech (Oct 20, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Nope.



And by the way TreeCo, I'm glad we are getting along now.


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## Plasmech (Oct 20, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> That makes sense, I'm old fashion and still using a double D-ring saddle and a locking snap with a bowline (when I climb) I used to use a non locking snap until it came off one of my D-rings when I twisted 180 degrees from my TIP, this was some years ago and pretty scary.
> 
> What do you guys think about using a clove hitch with a biner?



Have to ask one of the experts here but IMO there's not nearly enough to a clove hitch for lifeline work...


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 20, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> That makes sense, I'm old fashion and still using a double D-ring saddle and a locking snap with a bowline (when I climb) I used to use a non locking snap until it came off one of my D-rings when I twisted 180 degrees from my TIP, this was some years ago and pretty scary.
> 
> What do you guys think about using a clove hitch with a biner?



Me too old two ring saddle and a bowline in the eye , still used for utilty climbers today , reliable easy to remember..


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 20, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Have to ask one of the experts here but IMO there's not nearly enough to a clove hitch for lifeline work...


If you use any knot then run it to a bridge than you CANNOT come loose from your climbing line it's not possible , just a bit of a problem thats all..


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## treemandan (Oct 20, 2009)

Good topic Plas. It takes a lot of work making sure your beeners are pointed in the right direction.


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## Plasmech (Oct 20, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Good topic Plas. It takes a lot of work making sure your beeners are pointed in the right direction.



You interested in coming down to help me with a couple jobs TMD?


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## treemandan (Oct 20, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> You interested in coming down to help me with a couple jobs TMD?



You perhaps experienced some of that beener flop when you used my asccender. Its a good thing I use good beeners huh? Personally I am more afraid of anything that is not a figure eight knot in that application. I tried to get over it to no avail. Its a standard staple to me but I can see the ANSI rating to be wise. Its just another reason why I stick to plain old taughtline hitches and I would use snaps instead of beeners but they are quite heavy.
You are going to have to send me real info regarding these " jobs" you keep talking about. I can give you the advise you need to price them cause I think you might be setting yourself up to take it on the chin although I don't know. Hauling that chipper down there might allready exceed the limits.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 20, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> That makes sense, I'm old fashion and still using a double D-ring saddle and a locking snap with a bowline (when I climb) I used to use a non locking snap until it came off one of my D-rings when I twisted 180 degrees from my TIP, this was some years ago and pretty scary.
> 
> What do you guys think about using a clove hitch with a biner?



I used to clove hitch directly to my double D's, tying my blakes w/ the tail. Worked well. My bro still uses this system. Some guys think the clove will tend to roll but I never had that problem. Or you can forget all that #### and get with the new school, RF. Ya know, when ya get out of your bucket someday. lol


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## pdqdl (Oct 20, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> That makes sense, I'm old fashion and still using a double D-ring saddle and a locking snap with a bowline (when I climb) I used to use a non locking snap until it came off one of my D-rings when I twisted 180 degrees from my TIP, this was some years ago and pretty scary.
> 
> What do you guys think about using a clove hitch with a biner?



Insanity!

Of course it will always hold until you don't have the tail tied off with the friction hitch. If you do something like climb a tree and let your ground men belay you while your tail is not secured, you are essentially unsecured. Even then, it might roll a little on that little carabiner. The diameter of the 'biner is less than the diameter of the rope, so it's ability to hold is limited.

It would be completely unsafe for a split tail system.


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## zopi (Oct 20, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> It's great for a non-split tail / Blake's hitch rig too the way the rope routes. Ever try the anchor hitch with 3 wraps?



No...that extra turn just weakens the line more...every knot or turn in a line adds weakness...knots that are proven to work have been tested and evaluated here there and yonder and their properties are known..that ring bend or fishermens bend or anchor hitch..whatever you want to call it works just fine the way it is.....It is called an anchor hitch not because of climbing application, but because it was used to bend hawser cable to anchor rings or chain shots for mooring sailing ships...


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## zopi (Oct 20, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Insanity!
> 
> Of course it will always hold until you don't have the tail tied off with the friction hitch. If you do something like climb a tree and let your ground men belay you while your tail is not secured, you are essentially unsecured. Even then, it might roll a little on that little carabiner. The diameter of the 'biner is less than the diameter of the rope, so it's ability to hold is limited.
> 
> It would be completely unsafe for a split tail system.



I was taught to rappel this way. way back when...makes me cringe to remember looking down and seeing the rope spinning under me....:censored:


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## pdqdl (Oct 21, 2009)

*Cinching knots only: nonsense!*

I got to thinking about the recommendation by Antsy [ANSI] to only use cinching knots so as to prevent escape of the knot from the carabiner and to prevent improper loading. While the recommendation is a good idea, and it reduces the probability of those errors, *I don't see it as a necessary requirement*. Here is why:

Spliced eyes are generally considered superior attachments to a carabiner than any knot, and they do not cinch down at all. Therefore, the cinching requirement cannot be considered a primary concern in the safety of any knot that serves the same purpose as a spliced eye.

Since many of the various knots available are equally reliable, there is no reason not to learn a good cinching knot. On the other hand, if you happen to be "knot-disabled", and learning to do a triple fisherman is a challenge for you, then you had better stick to what you know is safe. If you only know a bowline, and you do it right every time, then perhaps you should stick with that.

My personal opinion is that "knot-disabled" persons should learn a less dangerous trade.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 21, 2009)

:agree2:


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## Plasmech (Oct 21, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I got to thinking about the recommendation by Antsy [ANSI] to only use cinching knots so as to prevent escape of the knot from the carabiner and to prevent improper loading. While the recommendation is a good idea, and it reduces the probability of those errors, I don't see it as a necessary requirement. Here is why:
> 
> Spliced eyes are generally considered superior attachments to a carabiner than any knot, and they do not cinch down at all. Therefore, the cinching requirement cannot be considered a primary concern in the safety of any knot that serves the same purpose as a spliced eye.
> 
> ...



In other words, people who can't tie knots are "knot smart".


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## Rftreeman (Oct 21, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I used to clove hitch directly to my double D's, tying my blakes w/ the tail. Worked well. My bro still uses this system. Some guys think the clove will tend to roll but I never had that problem. Or you can forget all that #### and get with the new school, RF. Ya know, when ya get out of your bucket someday. lol


man I haven't been in a bucket (have sat on a few 5 gallon ones) for more than 2 years now, wish like hell I had one.....would be nice :hmm3grin2orange: as for new school, I've been watching and reading but some of the stuff seems a bit overboard for me since all "I" do is a removal once in a while....I'm so old fashion I still use the tautline hitch....LoL...


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## pdqdl (Oct 21, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> ...I'm so old fashion I still use the tautline hitch....LoL...



It still works, doesn't it? 



I would probably offer to pick on you if you were still swinging on some 3-strand, though!
If it was 3 strand manilla rope, we would probably have to take your chainsaw license away and make you go back to handsaws.


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## Rftreeman (Oct 21, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> It still works, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Works too good sometimes especially with the added weight.. 

I did use 3 strand probably longer than most but now I'm swinging on yellow jacket.......

What's manilla, I'm not that old.........:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 21, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> man I haven't been in a bucket (have sat on a few 5 gallon ones) for more than 2 years now, wish like hell I had one.....would be nice :hmm3grin2orange: as for new school, I've been watching and reading but some of the stuff seems a bit overboard for me since all "I" do is a removal once in a while....I'm so old fashion I still use the tautline hitch....LoL...



Don't go new school, RF, it's a money pit. You get one new fangled jobby, and then the next one you need to help out the first one and so on. But as me and my partners were discussing last week, we're not in this to make money, it's just a very expensive hobby.


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## Plasmech (Oct 21, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Don't go new school, RF, it's a money pit. You get one new fangled jobby, and then the next one you need to help out the first one and so on. But as me and my partners were discussing last week, we're not in this to make money, it's just a very expensive hobby.



I was thinking about trying to become a certified arborist. Do you think this is a colossal waste of time/money?


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## Rftreeman (Oct 21, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Don't go new school, RF, it's a money pit. You get one new fangled jobby, and then the next one you need to help out the first one and so on.


sounds like prescription drugs, you need one for this and another for that and another to help with side effects of the two and so on....lol...


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## Plasmech (Oct 21, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> sounds like prescription drugs, you need one for this and another for that and another to help with side effects of the two and so on....lol...



Hey man what's up with your siggy, it sucks. You're not stupid. If you were I wouldn't be reading your posts.


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## pdqdl (Oct 21, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I was thinking about trying to become a certified arborist. Do you think this is a colossal waste of time/money?



There seem to be differing ideas on the topic. Read this whole thread, and you will have some good ideas on the topic: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=112156


Quite frankly, I learn more here at AS than I ever did from ISA. My customers don't seem to know or care, but it looks good on my business card. My employees quit arguing with me as much about how things should be done, and I suspect that it generates a little more trust in my advice when I am talking to my customers.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 21, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I was thinking about trying to become a certified arborist. Do you think this is a colossal waste of time/money?



Have you not been reading the hubbub about CEU's and the ISA in the other thread? Figure out how to do the work first, then think about becoming a CA.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 21, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> There seem to be differing ideas on the topic. Read this whole thread, and you will have some good ideas on the topic: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=112156
> 
> 
> Quite frankly, I learn more here at AS than I ever did from ISA. My customers don't seem to know or care, but it looks good on my business card. My employees quit arguing with me as much about how things should be done, and I suspect that it generates a little more trust in my advice when I am talking to my customers.



agreed


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## Rftreeman (Oct 21, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Hey man what's up with your siggy, it sucks. You're not stupid. If you were I wouldn't be reading your posts.


I was gonna rep ya but I'm out, that's just how some people see it, you know, utility tree guys are just stupid hacks with no proper training...


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 21, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> There are very inexpensive way to go new school. For instance a self tending VT hitch for climbing can be done for the price of a carabiner...a couple of dollars for a tress cord.....and a $4 dog leash snap.
> 
> 
> Of course if you want to spend big bucks to go new school vendors are lined up to take your bucks.



Sometimes I wonder if some o' the folks at this site are getting free gear in exchange for talking it up. It is nice though. My setup now is about 10 times what it was a year ago.


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## Plasmech (Oct 21, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> I was gonna rep ya but I'm out, that's just how some people see it, you know, utility tree guys are just stupid hacks with no proper training...



My post was a compliment man 

And by the way, NO man who works right next to 2000+ volts isn't stupid, rather he's already dead.

What voltages were the primaries usually?


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## Plasmech (Oct 21, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> There are very inexpensive way to go new school. For instance a self tending VT hitch for climbing can be done for the price of a carabiner...a couple of dollars for a tress cord.....and a $4 dog leash snap.
> 
> 
> Of course if you want to spend big bucks to go new school vendors are lined up to take your bucks.



Hey what's a "tress" cord?


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## treemandan (Oct 21, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Hey what's a "tress" cord?



a validoation ttresse cord.


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## zopi (Oct 21, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> There are very inexpensive way to go new school. For instance a self tending VT hitch for climbing can be done for the price of a carabiner...a couple of dollars for a tress cord.....and a $4 dog leash snap.
> 
> 
> Of course if you want to spend big bucks to go new school vendors are lined up to take your bucks.



true...my etrier is just a distel hitch, micropulley, and carabiner, with a web sling...cheap safe and effective...

the ascender though? little pricier...

Oh I WANT to spend some $$...buuuttt...


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## Rftreeman (Oct 21, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> My post was a compliment man
> 
> And by the way, NO man who works right next to 2000+ volts isn't stupid, rather he's already dead.
> 
> What voltages were the primaries usually?


That's pretty much how I took it...

I worked around voltage anywhere from 4k to 400k....


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## zopi (Oct 21, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> My post was a compliment man
> 
> And by the way, NO man who works right next to 2000+ volts isn't stupid, rather he's already dead.
> 
> What voltages were the primaries usually?



hey..waitaminute...I play with -18kvdc pretty regularly..I'm still breathing...most days..


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