# Fastest way to season firewood?



## jrider

Anyone have any tricks to seasoning firewood quickly? Not talking about kiln drying.


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## Biker Dude

The fastest way I know of is to season it in my boiler over a bed of hot coals. Moisture starts evaporating almost instantly.
:jester:


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## ancy

Cut and use ash.


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## nixon

^^^^^^ along those lines is what I was going to say . If You think You're going to need wood quickly try to select wood that is relatively low in MC to start with , or something that will dry fairly quickly .


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## jdc123

I cut all I can in the spring and early summer, stack it, and let the Mississippi heat do the rest. For the stuff I cut later in the year or in the fall or winter, I just try to give it more time. I try to stay a year ahead so it all has plenty of time to dry out.


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## woodhounder

wide open area with lots of sun and wind


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## c5rulz

There is no replacement for splitting (the smaller the better) and time with low humidity.

However wood in close proximity to the wood stove does dry quickly.


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## c5rulz

ancy said:


> Cut and use ash.





I just cut 2 24" ash out of the backyard making room for 27 more apple trees in the spring. My buddy needed wood for burning right away and he took the ash. In one day after cutting cracks were appearing in the wood. The saw dust didn't have that wet feeling either.


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## Fifelaker

Biker Dude said:


> The fastest way I know of is to season it in my boiler over a bed of hot coals. Moisture starts evaporating almost instantly.
> :jester:


 I have done this it is very effective.:hmm3grin2orange: But time,wind,small splits work also


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## cedarman

sun, wind, air, and off the ground. 

dont put a tarp on it or put it under a roof until you use the wood for burning.

let mother nature do the rest


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## fordss

*drying wood*

Well I don't have a lot of room to store years ahead so this year I am burning wood the was c/s/s in Jan last year I tested it with a moister meter and i t is around 23-26 % so I bring it in to my basement were my wood stove is and it helps dry it out the rest of the way I can fit about 1.5 cords in my basement near the stove so it dty to under 20% before I need to use it. Its nice to have a stockpile of wood so i don't have to go get more in a snow storm or when it all wet.


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## jrider

Anyone ever try cutting trees down when the leaves are on and then walk away for a week or two depending on the weather? The leaves continue to pull moisture out of the wood and once they turn brown, you cut the tree up. I've found this probably cuts seasoning time in half. Anyone else do this? And if so, what are your results?


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## Wood Doctor

ancy said:


> Cut and use ash.


Slight correction: cut, split, stack and use ash.

No ash? Cut, split, stack, and wait. Sun and wind do the rest. Maple dries about as fast as any hardwood species that I know. Oak is just about the slowest. The rest are in between.


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## Steve NW WI

Cut short, split small. The more surface area, the faster it will dry. Unfortunately, it will also burn faster in the stove that way.

Stacked inside my basement, where it's 80+ degrees and <20% humidity all winter long takes any moisture out of wood as well, but it's not an option for everyone.


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## Wood Doctor

jrider said:


> Anyone ever try cutting trees down when the leaves are on and then walk away for a week or two depending on the weather? The leaves continue to pull moisture out of the wood and once they turn brown, you cut the tree up. I've found this probably cuts seasoning time in half. Anyone else do this? And if so, what are your results?


There was a huge thead on this last year with tons of discussion. Do a search. As I recall, results vary a great deal, and most of the time the forum concluded that is was impractical to leave the leaves on. If the wood can be split green, it's usually better to cut rounds and split immediately. Some species, such as elm and cottonwood, refuse to split green. In that case, you should cut the rounds to length and look for a check up on the ends to indicate that the wood can be split.

I think some of the arborists even claimed that the leaves don't pull moisture through the trunk at all. Note that some standing dead trees, even barkless ones that have had no leaves for several years will still have significant moisture remaining in the heartwood.


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## CrappieKeith

Biker Dude said:


> The fastest way I know of is to season it in my boiler over a bed of hot coals. Moisture starts evaporating almost instantly.
> :jester:


and go through 2-3 times the wood at that rate that well seasoned air dried wood would require...now if you are joking..then ...opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## logbutcher

*No "trick"...*

Unless you're a pro selling, firewood is like sex: you think about it on the average every day nearly once a minute.

Now, this rule is for most of us. For the rest, your thinking may vary.:hmm3grin2orange:

For most species, including the rare oaks for us, the wood - 6-8 cords - will be fine for the following winter. 

For us it is a *year-round plan *( firewood that is  ). 

1. Harvest mostly in winter--no bugs, equipment runs easier on frozen ground, less sweat ( 'less', not none ). Some pulp and sawlogs also.
2. Butts are piled near the woodsheds. (Rule: NO woodlot stacks--I usually forget them. ).
3. Splitting and stacking and lurking/snorting aroma (WoodPiles OCD :eek2 done late spring, maybe through part of the early summer.
4. Rest of the year, planning and taping trees to harvest, blowdowns, odd scrounging for and from neighbors/friends. Too many other things to do.



JMNSHO


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## CTYank

jrider said:


> Anyone have any tricks to seasoning firewood quickly? Not talking about kiln drying.



None, for "seasoning" except maybe to declare it "seasoned" whatever that means.

If the goal is to air-dry the wood so the MC gets below 20% more quickly, it's simple. Get it c/s/s sooner. The trick is called "Plan ahead." There's no silver bullet that can recapture lost time.

If you miss having the logs c/s/s in time for summer & fall, it's Next Year for air-drying. Sorry.

The "trick" for avoiding this sort of scurrying is to be years ahead. No such thing as too much. Working on 3 years here.


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## stihlrookie

*Did ya google it?*

build a holzhausen. It has been discussed here a couple times.


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## logbutcher

stihlrookie said:


> build a holzhausen. It has been discussed here a couple times.



Yup, "holzhausen" is German for " look at those silly Americans building these useless round stacks". :hmm3grin2orange:

Disclosure: I built one of those HH things years ago. Once. Sure it looked elegant, took plenty of time to get it correct ( "pi r²" etc..), and it only contained barely a cord.
Then: how the H do you get sticks out to burn ? Cute, very cute, butt............


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## CrappieKeith

Biker Dude said:


> The fastest way I know of is to season it in my boiler over a bed of hot coals. Moisture starts evaporating almost instantly.
> :jester:



I should have mentioned a little thing called EPA.
Most of the guys that burn wet wood are the same guys causing their neighbors to complain and through those complaints arose an issue...now there's laws in some states where they are either not legal or have stringent rules applied...thanks to guys that burn wet wood.

The only real reason a guy burns wet wood...lack of planning or lack of responsibility....and to make matter worse..boilers are smoke dragons anyway for the most part . A guy that owns one that takes care to operate with smaller loads and really dry wood is the guy that is on the ball.
...and to think we have not even gone to the diaper or railroad tie burner.


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## indiansprings

Like most have said, prior planning, cut two years ahead, other wise cut, split small, cover lots of air circulation. If your in a bind start with a low moisture content wood like hedge/osage orange, I believe it's about 35% mc content even when cut green, shorter curing time do to lower moisture content to start with, also extremely high btu output compared to most other hardwoods.


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## wdchuck

jrider said:


> Anyone have any tricks to seasoning firewood quickly? Not talking about kiln drying.



Dehumidifier in an enclosed space with the wood.


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## Biker Dude

CrappieKeith said:


> and go through 2-3 times the wood at that rate that well seasoned air dried wood would require...now if you are joking..then ...opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:



Yes Kieth, :jester: = joking


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## Jules083

I can set 4 normal sized pieces of wood on top of my woodburner. I'm sure it's still damp on the inside, but it seems to help when that's all I have. My wood shed is small and most of my wood is getting rained on as we speak. Should have tarped it before this wet spell came.


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## indiansprings

Wait until dark and just throw half of a 265/16" tire in your wood burner, it'll help get it hot enough to dry your wood out, it helps if you add a coffee can of diesel to get it going good.
















Just kidding!


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## Fifelaker

indiansprings said:


> Wait until dark and just throw half of a 265/16" tire in your wood burner, it'll help get it hot enough to dry your wood out, it helps if you add a coffee can of diesel to get it going good.
> 
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> Just kidding!



Yea right:msp_scared:


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## Wood Doctor

*Holy Cow!*



wdchuck said:


> Dehumidifier in an enclosed space with the wood.


I'm in stitches. :msp_biggrin:


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## stihlrookie

logbutcher said:


> Yup, "holzhausen" is German for " look at those silly Americans building these useless round stacks". :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Disclosure: I built one of those HH things years ago. Once. Sure it looked elegant, took plenty of time to get it correct ( "pi r²" etc..), and it only contained barely a cord.
> Then: how the H do you get sticks out to burn ? Cute, very cute, butt............



Yeah I know they are kind of silly but they work. Barely a cord? How small did you make it? Built one this summer, 7' diameter, 7' tall. Its at least 2 cords of unseasoned wood. Once it is seasoned the wood will have shrunk and the stack will be about 6' tall, plenty easy to pull wood off to burn.


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## zogger

jrider said:


> Anyone ever try cutting trees down when the leaves are on and then walk away for a week or two depending on the weather? The leaves continue to pull moisture out of the wood and once they turn brown, you cut the tree up. I've found this probably cuts seasoning time in half. Anyone else do this? And if so, what are your results?



--I do that, I think it works well. In the winter, leaves off and the sap mostly down in the roots, fell and buck right away. In the summer or spring, fell, let it hang around two weeks to a month, then buck it up. Once the leaves are shriveled, that seems to be it for drying, it might get..don't know..an extra 5% maybe more of the moisture out. I don't have a moisture meter so can't say for sure, all is a scientific wild,,,guess. *Seems* to work out good that way. Can't say as I have done a real scientific test on it though. It's real hard to say in the beastly hot summer here though, fresh cut rounds start to crack the afternoon after the morning they were blocked. Once it hits wet fall and cooler weather, might take a week to two weeks to start to see much of any cracks. 

Now, I don't know about moisture content, but I can tell by weight for sure. If I let a load of heavy rounds hang out down where it was cut in the summer, for like two weeks, it takes a few hundred lbs weight off of what I carry back. Real easy to tell using the tractor and the tote box, you can feel front end lift so easy. Same size load carrying it back fresh, I am right at front end liftoff starting out, got to ease it out slow in first gear until I get going. Similar load after some "in the field" drying, it seems way more solid on the ground, not any front end lift to speak of, steering stays good. Has to be a couple or three hundred lbs difference there, and that has to be lost moisture.

I think the first large amount of moisture you can lose happens fast, it's that last few percent that takes a long(er) time.

Would be nice to see some real scientific studies of it though. I like real data.


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## logbutcher

stihlrookie said:


> Yeah I know they are kind of silly but they work. Barely a cord? How small did you make it? Built one this summer, 7' diameter, 7' tall. Its at least 2 cords of unseasoned wood. Once it is seasoned the wood will have shrunk and the stack will be about 6' tall, plenty easy to pull wood off to burn.



OK, now I know I'm accused of many things ( troll, banned club, uneducated, ignorant, assertive, OCD etc....) , but this one does have some math chops. Not much, butt enough to figure out with my hands and toes that your H² total volume of wood results in just about 1.2 cords. True disclosure: 1 cord ~ 128 cubic feet (generously BTW ! ). Your H² ~ 137.4 cubic feet. Bet you thought you Germans could put something over this Yank ?? :tongue2::tongue2:

Just for kicks, we usually figure that a cord ( none of these rick, rack, face, Canadian cords, bush, or venison cords ) holds ~ 90 cubic feet stacked. 

So, if you're say 6 1/2 feet tall, getting those sticks out of the H² from the top down shouldn't be too bad. Now the truth: HOW LONG did this thing take to construct ?

You didn't tell us you're from Bavaria.


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## JRepairsK70e

microwave it on high for 5 minutes ,seasons up fastest


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## zogger

logbutcher said:


> OK, now I know I'm accused of many things ( troll, banned club, uneducated, ignorant, assertive, OCD etc....) , but this one does have some math chops. Not much, butt enough to figure out with my hands and toes that your H² total volume of wood results in just about 1.2 cords. True disclosure: 1 cord ~ 128 cubic feet (generously BTW ! ). Your H² ~ 137.4 cubic feet. Bet you thought you Germans could put something over this Yank ?? :tongue2::tongue2:
> 
> Just for kicks, we usually figure that a cord ( none of these rick, rack, face, Canadian cords, bush, or venison cords ) holds ~ 90 cubic feet stacked.
> 
> So, if you're say 6 1/2 feet tall, getting those sticks out of the H² from the top down shouldn't be too bad. Now the truth: HOW LONG did this thing take to construct ?
> 
> You didn't tell us you're from Bavaria.



I got 269 and small change cubic feet from a 7x7 cylinder. Two cords and some sticks

radius times radius (radius squared) times pi times length (height)

3.5 x 3.5 x 3.14 x 7

ya, air spaces and stuff....get that with any stack.


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## stihlrookie

logbutcher said:


> OK, now I know I'm accused of many things ( troll, banned club, uneducated, ignorant, assertive, OCD etc....) , but this one does have some math chops. Not much, butt enough to figure out with my hands and toes that your H² total volume of wood results in just about 1.2 cords. True disclosure: 1 cord ~ 128 cubic feet (generously BTW ! ). Your H² ~ 137.4 cubic feet. Bet you thought you Germans could put something over this Yank ?? :tongue2::tongue2:
> 
> Just for kicks, we usually figure that a cord ( none of these rick, rack, face, Canadian cords, bush, or venison cords ) holds ~ 90 cubic feet stacked.
> 
> So, if you're say 6 1/2 feet tall, getting those sticks out of the H² from the top down shouldn't be too bad. Now the truth: HOW LONG did this thing take to construct ?
> 
> You didn't tell us you're from Bavaria.



Took me and a buddy about 1/2 a day, could have taken less but the black locust we had was pretty twisted and it was our first one. The way you do math though, maybe it only took us 1/2 an hour. Math chops? Really? Short on fingers? Seriously, it was easily over 2 cords--128 cubic feet per cord. Unfortunately it was the very end of summer, September, and it is not seasoned as nicely as I would like. Shows nice checking on the ends and will burn okay but really should have been stacked in June or July. And who are you calling German, you flatlander?


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## Steve NW WI

zogger said:


> I think the first large amount of moisture you can lose happens fast, it's that last few percent that takes a long(er) time.
> 
> Would be nice to see some real scientific studies of it though. I like real data.



That's been my feeling as well, but no data for ya.

BUT, using this formula for finding the volume of a "frustum of a cone", R=base diameter, r=top diameter, H=height, 

V = Pi(R^2+rR+r^2)h/3

Giving a Holzhausen 7' at the base a 3' top diameter, works out to 144 cu ft. 1.13 cords. Win to that crabby old Mainer, although he's not quite right, and my estimate of top diameter might be off, they aren't a true cylinder.


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## mayhem100

Cut, split and stack as quickly as possible. If I get behind and can't split and stack ahead enough (pretty mcuh this is normal for me), I get it stacked inside and put a fan on it. Let it run for a couple, three weeks and its astonishing how muhc moisture the steady breeze wicks out of that wood. The area has to be well ventilated to get the moisture out of there...I've had condensation dripping down the basement walls after the first day or so of indoor drying.

There's no true substitute for drying outdoors in the wind and sun for a year, but fan drying will work in a pinch and the electricity to run a fan is very low so it doesn't cost much.


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## TN_WOOD

smaller pieces
cross-hatched stacks
direct sun
wind
cover from rain n snow (remove tarp on sunny days)
keep a few sticks inside
more time = more better

IMHO, if you planning to burn wood this season, you'll need to 1. find some seasoned wood, or 2. use a fan and find a sunny spot


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## zogger

Steve NW WI said:


> That's been my feeling as well, but no data for ya.
> 
> BUT, using this formula for finding the volume of a "frustum of a cone", R=base diameter, r=top diameter, H=height,
> 
> V = Pi(R^2+rR+r^2)h/3
> 
> Giving a Holzhausen 7' at the base a 3' top diameter, works out to 144 cu ft. 1.13 cords. Win to that crabby old Mainer, although he's not quite right, and my estimate of top diameter might be off, they aren't a true cylinder.



Oh, I didn't know that, I thought they came out more uniform than that. I had to google and look at a pic, didn't seem to be much of a taper to it, looked pretty straight up actually, that's why I used a cylinder.

Well, it needs to be merikanized then in what we call it, call it a wood teepee.

or.....a fast stacking wood teepee, let's call it a standing farmer's eastwest coast dump truck korde load pretty rank in your face rick pile....


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## logbutcher

OK OK you bright bulbs. What is it for the miraculous H² volume of wood ? Slightly over a cord in volume ....or macho more as the 6.5' tall builder proclaims ?
Then can you build a round house :msp_sad: wood shed for all the H² 's you'd need to heat for a winter ? Remember that you have cut at least a 7' tree we;ll supported for the center of this wonder...air flow.

We will give one big fat kudo to the H² : *pretty*. 

Deutchland uber alles ( you may sing now ) .:rocker:

P.S. We are called "from away" or "straphanger" by locals, among other terms......not "flatlander".


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## stihlrookie

A holzhausen is a cylinder not a cone, 7' height and 7' diameter, 269 and some change cubic feet was the size of this one. How hard is that to figure out? Jeesh mang. You are close, I am 6'2" and can easily reach the edge of the 7' stack from the ground. Don't know about yuse over there but we have these things called ladders, hence my buddy helping. Once the stack reached 5' it was difficult to reach the center and keep the cylindrical shape, ladder was used to climb up and continue stacking as one of us acted as courier of pieces for the other to stack. Its obvious that you previously constructed some sort of pile rather than a true holzhausen, maybe you should go research it a bit and get back to us. The premise of using this method is airflow is increased over just piling or stacking in rows with airspace. It takes time to construct properly but can reduce the amount of time needed for drying. Have you a better suggestion for the OP? Please enlighten us.


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## Billy_Bob

Instead of splitting into wedges, split into 1" or 2" flat pieces.

And then stack so air can get around wood pieces. Cover top, but open sides of wood pile.

Freezing temperatures will help to dry out wood.


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## Steve NW WI

stihlrookie said:


> A holzhausen is a cylinder not a cone, 7' height and 7' diameter, 269 and some change cubic feet was the size of this one. How hard is that to figure out? Jeesh mang. You are close, I am 6'2" and can easily reach the edge of the 7' stack from the ground. Don't know about yuse over there but we have these things called ladders, hence my buddy helping. Once the stack reached 5' it was difficult to reach the center and keep the cylindrical shape, ladder was used to climb up and continue stacking as one of us acted as courier of pieces for the other to stack. Its obvious that you previously constructed some sort of pile rather than a true holzhausen, maybe you should go research it a bit and get back to us. The premise of using this method is airflow is increased over just piling or stacking in rows with airspace. It takes time to construct properly but can reduce the amount of time needed for drying. Have you a better suggestion for the OP? Please enlighten us.



I bow to your hh knowliedge, but you still ain't catchin me spending a day makin one when I can stack 3x as much in rows in the same time. If I want round stacks of wood, I'll fill the old corn crib. Should hold 7 cords stacked 6' high.


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## stihlrookie

Steve NW WI said:


> I bow to your hh knowliedge, but you still ain't catchin me spending a day makin one when I can stack 3x as much in rows in the same time. If I want round stacks of wood, I'll fill the old corn crib. Should hold 7 cords stacked 6' high.



I will admit, I would not use this method myself. My buddy was the one who got himself in trouble with unseasoned firewood for this winter so we experimented with decent results, he has been burning from this stack for about a month now. I am with logbutcher on this, cut at least 1 season ahead of time and avoid this problem. As far as splitting into small pieces, 1-2" slabs, I would advise against that, burn time will be severely diminished with that size wood. 

I have had good results covering single rows of unseasoned wood with clear plastic, need sun for this to work well though. The plastic should cover the stack on all sides and be held above the stack to allow condensation that escapes the wood to run off the plastic. I used some pvc pipe to hold the plastic off my stacks and gave it some slope so the condensation would run off. Again sunshine is needed for this method to work best.


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## Whitespider

Silly thread...


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## nixon

^^ don't read it then :smile2:


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## Whitespider

I didn't say it wasn't entertaining... :smile2:


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## JRepairsK70e

why dont we all sit in a circle ,hold hands ,and pray for sunshine ,cuz it seems to be the common denominator for gettin wood seasoned .... oh and if you blow on it, that will speed up the process


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## tawilson

I thought that was a figure of speech.


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## Eric Modell

Since I am a green wood burner I can make a comment or Two.

The freezing weather will pull out a lot of moisture.

We store our wood in the house and try not to bring the wood in wet, wet from rain. snow is not much of a problem if you brush if off first.

You can always stack if by the stove for a day or two it helps a lot.


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## kilohertz

Well holy cow revive an old thread award to me...  I figure no point in starting a new thread....

Anyway, I have just brought home 4, 18' flat deck trailer loads of fir, cut this past May, laying in piles full length, which I traded for some excavator work. While I had the machine on site I cut the logs in half and hauled them home in about 20-22' lengths. They were checking on the ends already, and I have now cut them all up ready to split. We have had a hot summer here with no rain for 3 months...the wood is out in the driveway in 16-20" lengths right next to the wood shed.

So my question is, do you think it would dry faster left in the sun and air/wind etc. whole, or split and stacked in the shed, which is just an open ended car cover type thing, metal frame, tarp over the top, about 8' high in the center but would then be in the shade but still have some air movement. Supposed to continue warm, 24-28C for the next few weeks with just a chance of showers. I know it would be best to split it and leave in the sun but I'm not moving it yet again.  Splitter is in the wood shed.

It's all I have for this year so need it for October, thankfully I brought home enough for the next few years so next year won't be a problem.

Thanks!!


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## Erik B

kilohertz said:


> Well holy cow revive an old thread award to me...  I figure no point in starting a new thread....
> 
> Anyway, I have just brought home 4, 18' flat deck trailer loads of fir, cut this past May, laying in piles full length, which I traded for some excavator work. While I had the machine on site I cut the logs in half and hauled them home in about 20-22' lengths. They were checking on the ends already, and I have now cut them all up ready to split. We have had a hot summer here with no rain for 3 months...the wood is out in the driveway in 16-20" lengths right next to the wood shed.
> 
> So my question is, do you think it would dry faster left in the sun and air/wind etc. whole, or split and stacked in the shed, which is just an open ended car cover type thing, metal frame, tarp over the top, about 8' high in the center but would then be in the shade but still have some air movement. Supposed to continue warm, 24-28C for the next few weeks with just a chance of showers. I know it would be best to split it and leave in the sun but I'm not moving it yet again.  Splitter is in the wood shed.
> 
> It's all I have for this year so need it for October, thankfully I brought home enough for the next few years so next year won't be a problem.
> 
> Thanks!!


@kilohertz Welcome to the site. It would be best to get that wood split and stacked as soon as possible. Even under a bit of cover like you described, it will dry faster once it is split.
We love pics of anything related to firewood...saws, splitters, wood stacks, trailers, tractors...you get the idea.


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## kilohertz

Thanks for the welcome Erik! Much appreciated.
OKay, well you asked for it... Some pictures of my setup and the wood...this is my first time and I don't see a preview button here so not sure if this is the way to post pics...we'll see. Sorry if the size is wrong....can't find a "how to post pictures" thread.


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## kilohertz

OKay well it worked!! YEah.

I think I'll have to start a separate thread about my 3 phase VFD 7.5 HP splitter I made a few years back...

Cheers


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## kilohertz

And I know this is cheating but.....it's so much nicer cutting wood off the ground....


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## Big_Eddy

Short answer - wood dries faster after it is split. Best drying would be out in the sun spread out loosely on a hard surface.
Split and stacked in a shed with cover and good air flow is second best.
Blocks on the ground - not so good.

If you need it this fall - split it half the size you would normally - that will reduce the drying time ~4x.


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## Erik B

kilohertz said:


> And I know this is cheating but.....it's so much nicer cutting wood off the ground....
> 
> View attachment 600455


Yup, that is cheating or you could call it working smarter


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## LondonNeil

Split it small, and top cover in a loose stack or pile.
In your position I'd be tempted to try the hillbilly solar kiln for a bit, first month's worth of wood, or 2. Just use pallet wrap, leave a few holes to let dampness out, pile on a pallet to keep off the ground and allow air in


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## Sandhill Crane

LondonNeil said:


> Split it small, and top cover in a loose stack or pile.





LondonNeil said:


> pile on a pallet to keep off the ground and allow air in


Yes, your ideas work quite well, excellent actually.


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## LondonNeil

Do you leave it wrapped the whole time, or unwrap at some point?


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## Sandhill Crane

The netting stays on.


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## Sandhill Crane




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## LondonNeil

AHH it's net, looking via my phone I thought it was the cling film like pallet wrap (do you know what I mean by cling film? I think you have a different term your side of the pond)

Looks like a fantastic tool/system! Never seen anything like that before!

The tarp under stops moisture coming up from the ground I guess?


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## NSMaple1

Sandhill, you likely posted this before but how much wood is on each pallet? Maybe 1/4 cord? I suspect no more?


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## sb47

jrider said:


> Anyone have any tricks to seasoning firewood quickly? Not talking about kiln drying.



Cut split and stack it in the sun and wind.
It dry's pretty fast if you split and stack it.
I can get most wood dry in a few months if it's split.
Rounds take much longer and logs even longer then that.
The only wood I handle that takes the longest is post oak.
Mesquite takes a long time as well.


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## Ted Jenkins

For most part wood does not season or dry unless it is split. It does depend on the climate and weather to a degree. Logs that have been cut and stacked are not dry after 10 years in many cases. We have humidity down to 15% many days during the year. Wood that have been cut into rounds have a pretty good chance on being pretty dry if they are not piled on top of each other. I cut a green growing Pine about a month ago and now it is totally ready to burn, For almost all cases wood needs to be cut split and stacked ASAP. No more than two rows wide to allow for air circulation. If you know that you will have some freezing weather then that is the perfect time to get your wood dry. Thanks


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## Sandhill Crane

LondonNeil said:


> The tarp under stops moisture coming up from the ground I guess?





NSMaple1 said:


> how much wood is on each pallet? Maybe 1/4 cord? I suspect no more?


The tarp is 6' square. Corners folded as shown (folded under actually) and stitched so I can get my arm through the tunnel that that makes. Tarps go on top and not under pallets. Then a long loop of baling twine through the corners and around the bale to hold the tarp secure and still let air flow under it from the sides. The photo of the tarp on the ground does not have the corners stitched. That photo was the day I came up with how to secure them, and do it as simply as I could think of. I made hundreds more of covers last winter, and it became a lot of work time wise cutting and sewing. So far I've gone through a role of twine, 4,500 feet, at about 17' per pallet, and several very large tarps. Soon I will be selling firewood I covered last fall, and can begin reusing the covers, same as the pallets. The main point is however, it seems to be working very well for seasoning, and keeping leaves out as well. The only thing about ground moisture is rotting what sits on it, pallets included. So far no indication of this, but one year is too short of measure to judge yet on the gravel. Gravel does hold moisture well when shaded.

Each pallet stacks to a little over 1/4 cord. Four of the drums used for palletizing a cord equals 226 cu. ft. loose thrown. (well over what is commonly thought to be 180-200 cu. ft. loose thrown per cord)

I'm not saying, or implying, this is the fastest way to season firewood. It is working about the same as the large racks I was using if they were covered. Uncovered in both cases, the pallets are much better. The firewood in the racks was tightly stacked three rows deep, and uncovered the top half of the middle row I found to be wet and heavy when delivering even after a year, from rain/snow and lack of sun/air.

I think the fastest way to season is to process (cut/split) in March/April/May. I keep looking at the wood I did this past spring, compared to last fall, and I don't see, feel, or hear much difference.


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## Sandhill Crane

LondonNeil: Which London are you in? 
If London, England, then you might find a used Posch rather cheap. I found some discussion on Arbtalk, which lead me to some 'equipment for sale' sites in Europe. It seems to be a German company, but some units made in Austria.


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## Wood Doctor

The fastest way that I can dry firewood is to split it, throw it into a random pile atop pallets, and let it dry in the sun and wind. Piled atop the pallets, it's off the ground, and the sun and wind do the rest. I have found that throwing a tarp over the pile is worthless.

Some wood species can be split when green, others cannot and require some drying in the round. American elm and cottonwood come to mind. I wait until the bark starts to fall off these two species before I split them.


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## kilohertz

Thanks guys! Appreciate all the input. we have a couple of sunny days coming then a few showers..I'll start splitting it tomorrow and should have it done before the showers get here. As my splitter is in the shed, I don't want to split then put it back out into the sun then move it back into the shed...We should be good. There is some pine in there as well which is already pretty dry. 

Cheers


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## KiwiBro

You want it to dry fast? Get it wet. No, seriously. Cut and split it green, leave the splits in the river (it's Canada, there are rivers everywhere ?  ) for a few days, pull it out absolutely saturated, then watch it dry faster than anything else. No, really. It works. This Summer, I'll put about 30 cords of gum firewood in a river that runs through a property I'm cutting on and it will be seasoned come Winter.


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## LondonNeil

Yes London England. I'm just a home owner doing my own couple of cords though, but like to see a well thought out system and good kit, it's interesting.


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## sb47

It really dose not mater where you live. Splitting and stacking where it's well ventilated and lots of sun is going to give everyone the best natural air dry results.
I simply stock and rotate enough wood so that dry time is not a factor.
If you live where you have short dry times you can keep your stock lower, but if your area takes more time, you simply have to keep dry wood coming up in the rotation. 
The weather conditions play a big roll to. You may have 8 to 10 years of dry conditions, then have wet conditions for 1 or 2 years in a row. Dry times will very, even in the same location. 
You adapt and adjust to your condition and usage.


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## sam-tip

I am for burning Ash. But for kicks and giggles I just put two cord of stacked wood in a shipping container last week. The 20 ft container has 12 vent holes. 

Will see how it goes. Pallets are 4 x 8 x4 each. Mix of Ash white oak and honey locust.













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## muddstopper

Sit that container on blocks and put a few vents in the floor so air will circulate from the bottom out the top. paint it flat black, and I bet it will work very well.


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## ken morgan

muddstopper said:


> Sit that container on blocks and put a few vents in the floor so air will circulate from the bottom out the top. paint it flat black, and I bet it will work very well.



Yeah I can attest to what a temp difference that makes  I painted the tops of my conex boxes with a tar based paint to to keep the salt air corrosion down and the temps inside the box climbed by 50+ degrees just from painting the roof with the black tar paint.


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## cantoo

Ken, that's why I'm glad that my hair is turning gray. It was just so hot when it was black. I'm also glad it's thinning out too, saves me money on shampoo. And I can work longer at dark as the sun reflects off my receding hair line allowing me to see better.


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## ken morgan

cantoo said:


> Ken, that's why I'm glad that my hair is turning gray. It was just so hot when it was black. I'm also glad it's thinning out too, saves me money on shampoo. And I can work longer at dark as the sun reflects off my receding hair line allowing me to see better.


 I started out as a ginger so mine has turned a sandy blonde with age cept for my beard that damn thing stays red. its OK though I have gained enough freckels over the years from all of the souls I have absorbed that it no longer matters.


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## muddstopper

farmerdross said:


> Hi guys. I live in British Columbia, so I deal with ALOT of rain. The fastest, and sometimes only way for me to dry my firewood is to build a big chimney out of wood around my firepit. Then I light 'er up. Obviously this has to be done carefully. Some people might call me stupid but this method works like a charm.


I keep wood stacked under a shed, most of the time. Shed will hold enough for two winters and I burn out of one end one year and the other end the next winter, so the wood is always rotated. Right now, all the wood is stacked in the middle of the shed as I have burnt two winters out of it and had wood left over. When the shed is full, wood is stacked outside, uncovered. I am burning the outside stacked wood now instead of the shed covered wood. Its dry and seasoned. I figure why move the wood inside the shed when I can move it inside the house one load at a time, put close to the wood stove and any rain water drys out almost over nite. I have rounds and logs that need to be bucked and split and I pull small rounds out that will fit in the stove for overnite fires, The small rounds have dried pretty well over the summer as they are piled in full sun. The bigger, unsplit stuff is probably green if I split it. It will get split and stacked inside the shed, there is probably enough to refill one end of the shed so it will have another year to season before I need it.


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## Wood Doctor

My good friend has his own way of seasoning firewood for his potbelly stove. He watches me cut all my logs to length, and I collect and throw the short cutoffs into his big scrap bin shed with an open end that faces the setting sun. These are usually rounds less than 6" in length and other odd-ball chunks. All of them dry very fast, and I can't really sell them because everyone wants firewood log lengths. So, my friend cuts and splits practically nothing and fills his stove with these leftover shorties and chunks. His potbelly stove gobbles them up like gumdrops and he keeps his house warm as toast.

You have to admire ingenuity like that.


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## Ted Jenkins

I rarely have anything to do with green wood, but when we have rain it is often a mess. Last winter we started getting rain in November and it lasted until April so everything got pretty soggy. I try to keep the tops of the rows covered with tarps. When the temp reaches 30f or less I set fans along the rows. In less then a week the wood is very usable. Thanks


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## Jeffkrib

The fastest way to season wood would be a vacuum oven  
Baring that I would say up on your roof in a single layer.


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## sam-tip

Wondering if it is possible to seal the shipping container to hold a vacuum? Vacuum is a great way to dry wood. Dry firewood in a few days with less heat Dry thick slabs in 10 day with great quality.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Rjpoog1989

You guys put a good bit of thought into seasoning wood. I’ve never really thought that much about it. 90% of what I burn has sat around a year or more before burning. That being said most of it is stacked unsplit and uncovered. I don’t feel it’s necessary to split wood that will fit in my furnace just fine. I feel it’s easier to grab one piece of wood instead of 4. I don’t have a way to cover my whole wood pile. What is under roof gets burnt when the rest is covered in snow.

I guess what I’m asking is, am I doing it wrong?


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## sam-tip

For your stove you are doing it right. My epa gasifier likes better wood. 

Just did the math and don't think a shipping container will handle a vacuum of 0 atmosphere. Equals to about 2100 lbs per square foot. I now see why most vacuum kilns are round vessles.

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## Sandhill Crane

sam-tip said:


> Wondering if it is possible to seal the shipping container to hold a vacuum? Vacuum is a great way to dry wood. Dry firewood in a few days with less heat Dry thick slabs in 10 day with great quality.


When I was on a dewatering crew for sewer and water main construction. We jetted in 20' x 1 1/2" pvc, capped and slotted for wells every 10'. Then used a plumbers putty, like play dough, to seal joints for flex pipe hookups to header pipe, and a discharge line for each of many pumps.
Then the mechanics primed the system and fired up huge diesel pumps mounted on flatbed semi trailers. 
What would you use to pull a vacuum?
How would the water condensate out of the vacuum?
Doug, also, what was the result of using the shipping container last fall?


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## Ted Jenkins

sam-tip said:


> For your stove you are doing it right. My epa gasifier likes better wood.
> 
> Just did the math and don't think a shipping container will handle a vacuum of 0 atmosphere. Equals to about 2100 lbs per square foot. I now see why most vacuum kilns are round vessles.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



You are so right. A metal container that was well sealed might have a lower atmosphere, but nowhere near zero. If you buy a very large propane tank or similar there are major problems in doing so. First an air tight door would need to be build not easy. Then the massive amount of energy needed to pull all the air out to zero. It just makes no sense to try to dry wood out quickly. If you have a few hundred cubic feet of lumber that is valuable that is one thing, but not for fire wood. Every body can cut and split wood during the summer. A storage shed that repeals rain is easy and cheap. I have used a fan with great success, but this process is not a huge energy consumer. Thanks


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## MountainHigh

barring some of the more (cough) elaborate mechanized solutions already mentioned  ....

~ *Naturally Baked*: split small and scattered around on open concrete or blacktop for 3 weeks under maximum summer sun. Flip daily.
~ *Freeze Dried*: split small, single row spacing, stacked off ground and frozen in dead of winter for several weeks at -20


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## Wood Doctor

Stacking the wood in the sun really dries it out, especially if the stack looks a little like this:



I sometimes build a crib every three to five feet. The crib (crisscross) costs you a little space, but the air circulation is fabulous. All you have to remember is that the center of the three logs in the crib is slightly smaller in diameter than the outside two and the outside two should be about the same in diameter.

You would think that the crib would fall over, but I've gone up 7' high this way with 18" logs and it never does.


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## sam-tip

Sandhill Crane said:


> When I was on a dewatering crew for sewer and water main construction. We jetted in 20' x 1 1/2" pvc, capped and slotted for wells every 10'. Then used a plumbers putty, like play dough, to seal joints for flex pipe hookups to header pipe, and a discharge line for each of many pumps.
> Then the mechanics primed the system and fired up huge diesel pumps mounted on flatbed semi trailers.
> What would you use to pull a vacuum?
> How would the water condensate out of the vacuum?
> Doug, also, what was the result of using the shipping container last fall?


I was happy with the three cord of wood I had in the container this fall. Did not get wet from rain and did dry quicker. Need to paint the roof a darker color.

For fun we have been milling some nice logs for lumber. Trying to find a way to speed up the drying process. Plus if it would make drying fire wood quick that would be a plus.

I have plenty of vacuum pumps of many sizes. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Wood Doctor

I find it interesting that most of the firewood bundles being sold around here today are $6 apiece with five logs in the bundle and labeled "kiln dried". Rather amazing, isn't it? I guess air dried or sun dried means nothing these days, nor does the number of logs wrapped in the bundle.


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## moresnow

Not sure if this has been brought up but anyway. Buddy of mine has been drying his wood in a circular wire mesh corn crib with a galvanized steel roof. Very common in my area. Most are long since out of normal use. Easy to find. He splits everything for the most part. Loads the crib to the roof and shrink wraps the wire sides. This thing works well. The eaves are only 6' off the ground. Center of the roof must be 10' or better. Guessing a 20' diameter? Not exactly attractive. Very effective. Food for thought.


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## ChoppyChoppy

Wood Doctor said:


> I find it interesting that most of the firewood bundles being sold around here today are $6 apiece with five logs in the bundle and labeled "kiln dried". Rather amazing, isn't it? I guess air dried or sun dried means nothing these days, nor does the number of logs wrapped in the bundle.



In many areas they need to be run through a kiln to be USDA certified. It's the same idea of having to run shipping pallets through a kiln to kill any bugs.


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## ChoppyChoppy

moresnow said:


> Not sure if this has been brought up but anyway. Buddy of mine has been drying his wood in a circular wire mesh corn crib with a galvanized steel roof. Very common in my area. Most are long since out of normal use. Easy to find. He splits everything for the most part. Loads the crib to the roof and shrink wraps the wire sides. This thing works well. The eaves are only 6' off the ground. Center of the roof must be 10' or better. Guessing a 20' diameter? Not exactly attractive. Very effective. Food for thought.



I'm surprised the middle dries out in a 20ft container. It's filled from the top with a conveyor?


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## Woodcutteranon

My policy is wood is not called firewood until it is split and stacked off the ground. I fortunately have a lot of open space so I try to keep my stacked wood in a North-south orientation. I have found wood stacked east-west gets mold and mushrooms growing on the (north) backside...and there is less checking on that side as well. If you are working with limited space the key is to get it split and stacked off the ground asap.


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## Erik B

Rjpoog1989 said:


> You guys put a good bit of thought into seasoning wood. I’ve never really thought that much about it. 90% of what I burn has sat around a year or more before burning. That being said most of it is stacked unsplit and uncovered. I don’t feel it’s necessary to split wood that will fit in my furnace just fine. I feel it’s easier to grab one piece of wood instead of 4. I don’t have a way to cover my whole wood pile. What is under roof gets burnt when the rest is covered in snow.
> 
> I guess what I’m asking is, am I doing it wrong?


@Rjpoog1989 If you are burning hardwoods like oak, those take 2-3 years to dry after they have been split and stacked. You don't get much heat out of trying to burn water. Many on here that have an OWB and season their wood for 2-3 years find they use less wood. Wood should measure below 20% on a fresh split of wood.


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## Tree Feller

My Pa taught me when I was young that you cut wood January-March to burn that year. So the best way to season wood is sun/air flow and time!


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## Wood Doctor

ValleyFirewood said:


> In many areas they need to be run through a kiln to be USDA certified. It's the same idea of having to run shipping pallets through a kiln to kill any bugs.


That helps explain why commercial firewood bundles sold in supermarkets and gas stations are so overpriced. Do kilns operate at zero cost?


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## Rjpoog1989

Erik B said:


> @Rjpoog1989 If you are burning hardwoods like oak, those take 2-3 years to dry after they have been split and stacked. You don't get much heat out of trying to burn water. Many on here that have an OWB and season their wood for 2-3 years find they use less wood. Wood should measure below 20% on a fresh split of wood.



I see what you’re saying, but is the extra work really worth the reward? This furnace being my only heat source is a lot of work the way I’m doing it. I can’t imagine splitting all my wood on top of the rest of it. Burning a bit more doesn’t bother me much. In my current situation; wood is free, but time is money...


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## ChoppyChoppy

Wood Doctor said:


> That helps explain why commercial firewood bundles sold in supermarkets and gas stations are so overpriced. Do kilns operate at zero cost?



The cost?

It's a convienence, so it's not going to be the cheapest thing.

Lot more involved in bundles vs bulk wood. 

It's "premium" wood and dry. Hard to bundle odd shaped wood, plus it's not eye appealing.

Then there's the cost of the wrap, label, and labor.

Then cost to deliver it to the store, and the store has to make a bit off it too.

Around here, the store is doing quite well selling them, usually close to doubling what they pay for them... ie... the guy doing all the work isn't making much in the scheme of things.


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## Erik B

Rjpoog1989 said:


> I see what you’re saying, but is the extra work really worth the reward? This furnace being my only heat source is a lot of work the way I’m doing it. I can’t imagine splitting all my wood on top of the rest of it. Burning a bit more doesn’t bother me much. In my current situation; wood is free, but time is money...


Burning wood that is not dry increases your chances of having a chimney fire by increasing the creasote that builds up in your chimney. If you can get three years ahead then you only have to worry about putting up one years worth per year. It also helps to have a number of years ahead incase of an illness or injury that would prevent you from getting wood put up. It helped me alot when I had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands. Didn't get much wood put up that year but still had dry wood to burn.


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## moresnow

ValleyFirewood said:


> I'm surprised the middle dries out in a 20ft container. It's filled from the top with a conveyor?



This crib has 2 home built swing doors 4' wide x 6' tall. He backs his yard cart/wagon in those doors with a old Deere lawn tractor to hand stack the crib full. The splits getting loaded into the crib come from another staging/stack area that has been seasoning since the past late summer/fall. It has started seasoning a bit already. Being wrapped up through the spring/summer/fall seems to be accelerating the drying. I checked MC on random splits last fall after cutting the plastic off the loading doors to start sliding the splits into his basement on a slide. I was floored! Yes. The splits checked were re-split and checked on the fresh split face. As well as being around 60-70 degrees ambient. Most was <20%. A few were just over 20%

To test the shrink wrap/top cover method myself I am planning on splitting/stacking 4 separate 1 cord groups of green cut elm, maple, ash that has been cut and stacked in rounds since late last summer. I plan on shrink wrapping/tar papering the pallets on half of the individual pallet stacked cords and top covering. The other half will be my standard pallet stacked pile with no top cover or wrap. Should provide a interesting comparison between the separate piles I think? We shall see how MC compare's over time.


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## Rjpoog1989

Erik B said:


> Burning wood that is not dry increases your chances of having a chimney fire by increasing the creasote that builds up in your chimney. If you can get three years ahead then you only have to worry about putting up one years worth per year. It also helps to have a number of years ahead incase of an illness or injury that would prevent you from getting wood put up. It helped me alot when I had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands. Didn't get much wood put up that year but still had dry wood to burn.



I agree with being ahead. I already have enough for next year and then some. But none of it is split. It’s on pallets, so off the ground, but I have no desire to split it all. Plus, most of what I get is crap we don’t feel like dealing with at work. That means tree Ys and gnarly stuff that won’t split easy. I don’t have a hydraulic splitter and there’s no way this stuff splits by hand.


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## Erik B

Rjpoog1989 said:


> I agree with being ahead. I already have enough for next year and then some. But none of it is split. It’s on pallets, so off the ground, but I have no desire to split it all. Plus, most of what I get is crap we don’t feel like dealing with at work. That means tree Ys and gnarly stuff that won’t split easy. I don’t have a hydraulic splitter and there’s no way this stuff splits by hand.


It might be worth while to get a moisture meter to check the wood you are burning. They can be found for less than $30. Keeping your home and family safe while burning wood can't be measured in dollars. 
How often are you cleaning your chimney and how much stuff are you getting out of it? Have you had it inspected by someone with a video camera that can get a good look at the entire run? The one thing none of us want to read about is someone having a chimney fire that destroys their home and harms their family.


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## Rjpoog1989

Erik B said:


> It might be worth while to get a moisture meter to check the wood you are burning. They can be found for less than $30. Keeping your home and family safe while burning wood can't be measured in dollars.
> How often are you cleaning your chimney and how much stuff are you getting out of it? Have you had it inspected by someone with a video camera that can get a good look at the entire run? The one thing none of us want to read about is someone having a chimney fire that destroys their home and harms their family.



I try to clean what I can get to every other month. The back chamber is a PITA to open up with a fire going, so I only do that once a year. I figure as long as the chimney and top chamber are clear I’m in good shape. If the back chamber were to catch fire I can’t see any consequences to that, because if the top chamber and chimney are clean there’s nothing up there to catch fire. The entire thing is easily accessible though when torn apart in the spring, no need for cameras. 

This link has a picture of the chambers I’m referring to. First picture, top of page. http://www.taylorstove.net/taylorGuts.htm

I’d worry about my garage burning up before my house. Furnace is like 10yds from garage but like 30yds from my house.


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## Erik B

Rjpoog1989 said:


> I try to clean what I can get to every other month. The back chamber is a PITA to open up with a fire going, so I only do that once a year. I figure as long as the chimney and top chamber are clear I’m in good shape. If the back chamber were to catch fire I can’t see any consequences to that, because if the top chamber and chimney are clean there’s nothing up there to catch fire. The entire thing is easily accessible though when torn apart in the spring, no need for cameras.
> 
> This link has a picture of the chambers I’m referring to. First picture, top of page. http://www.taylorstove.net/taylorGuts.htm
> 
> I’d worry about my garage burning up before my house. Furnace is like 10yds from garage but like 30yds from my house.


I guess I missed the part of your furnace being outside and not in your house. The part of the chimney that builds up creasote the most is the top 3-4 feet. At least that has been my experience. 
I would like to see what your furnace looks like. Post some pics of your setup.


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## FlyingDutchman

Salt and pepper to taste.


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## Woody912

Abandoned greenhouse. In Arizona. Split your wood small


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## Wood Doctor

ValleyFirewood said:


> The cost?
> 
> It's a convienence, so it's not going to be the cheapest thing. Lot more involved in bundles vs bulk wood.
> 
> It's "premium" wood and dry. Hard to bundle odd shaped wood, plus it's not eye appealing. Then there's the cost of the wrap, label, and labor.
> 
> Then cost to deliver it to the store, and the store has to make a bit off it too. Around here, the store is doing quite well selling them, usually close to doubling what they pay for them... ie... the guy doing all the work isn't making much in the scheme of things.



Doubling the unit cost to obtain the initial selling price is the typical retail "Golden Markup" that's been around for as long as I can remember. Kiln drying is bound to increase the cost of a firewood bundle, unless the supplier has enormous volume and enormous kilns to dry the wood prior to bundling. I suppose that's possible.

I once offered a retailer a price per bundle that's about half the price of what they could sell it for. They turned me down because they did not want to own the bundles as salable property. Retailers take title to the goods that they sell unless they allow space for a jobber to operate withing the confines. All sales revenue then should go to the jobber.


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## ChoppyChoppy

Wood Doctor said:


> Doubling the unit cost to obtain the initial selling price is the typical retail "Golden Markup" that's been around for as long as I can remember. Kiln drying is bound to increase the cost of a firewood bundle, unless the supplier has enormous volume and enormous kilns to dry the wood prior to bundling. I suppose that's possible.
> 
> I once offered a retailer a price per bundle that's about half the price of what they could sell it for. They turned me down because they did not want to own the bundles as salable property. Retailers take title to the goods that they sell unless they allow space for a jobber to operate withing the confines. All sales revenue then should go to the jobber.



The local grocery chain came to me last fall wanting to do bundles. Long story short they wasted my time and money and strung me along for several months. I never could get them to commit to a price. They sell small ".75" cu ft bundles of what I'd call kindling wood, I wasn't interested in putting my name on that ****.

They allegedly sell around 60,000 bundles a year out of the 5 or 6 stores in the local area.


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## Wood Doctor

ValleyFirewood said:


> The local grocery chain came to me last fall wanting to do bundles. Long story short they wasted my time and money and strung me along for several months. I never could get them to commit to a price. They sell small ".75" cu ft bundles of what I'd call kindling wood, I wasn't interested in putting my name on that ****.
> 
> They allegedly sell around 60,000 bundles a year out of the 5 or 6 stores in the local area.


Hard to believe they turned you down. Quality apparently means nothing to them. I also have a hard time believing that they sell 12oo bundles a week unless they have a couple dozen or stores selling them. Anything is possible I suppose.

One of my new truckload customers was buying bundles for his fireplace at home from a grocery chain. He said the wood burned like popcorn. After I delivered a truckload of quality firewood, he called me up and said he would never buy another firewood bundle from them again as log as I am in business. He could not believe he was paying $6 a bundle for kindling. He showed me one bundle that he had kept to compare with my hardwood splits, and I had to agree with him.


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## ChoppyChoppy

Wood Doctor said:


> Hard to believe they turned you down. Quality apparently means nothing to them. I also have a hard time believing that they sell 12oo bundles a week unless they have a couple dozen or stores selling them. Anything is possible I suppose.
> 
> One of my new truckload customers was buying bundles for his fireplace at home from a grocery chain. He said the wood burned like popcorn. After I delivered a truckload of quality firewood, he called me up and said he would never buy another firewood bundle from them again as log as I am in business. He could not believe he was paying $6 a bundle for kindling. He showed me one bundle that he had kept to compare with my hardwood splits, and I had to agree with him.




I don't have that spreadsheet in front of me, but yes, it was around 10-12 stores (in an area of around 400,000 people). I would have been an additional vendor, they already have 2 outfits doing it but they couldn't keep up.
The one outfit also does the local gas stations. I had looked into it (knew the manager of the local store so she gave me the info) They only pay around $2.25 a bundle and sell them for $6 each.
I'm not sure how the other guy can sell them that cheap and be ok. I sat down and really ran the numbers (best I could) and was looking at around $2.00 a bundle in direct costs.

On top of that he has to deliver the bundles to all the gas stations in a radius of about 100 miles. Not sure how often he does it, but most of the gas stations have just a small pile by the store, maybe 30-50 bundles.

The bundles are .75 cu ft, so let's say 160 bundles to a cord if he's fairly stingy. That's $360 a cord. Can sell it as bulk wood for $275, so $85 "profit". Take away about .75 a bundle for the wrap, label and labor... that a "profit" of $10. And that's not counting having to deliver it for that price too.
Makes no sense to me.

As far as the grocery store, it was a mega headache dealing with them. They expected me to know how they do things and who to talk to. The irritating thing too is they brag all over about being "local"... we support local farmers, producers, "buy local" etc.
They've had wood bundles or sale there from Utah, Texas, and even Lithuania! (I'm not kidding!)

The only info I had really was from a manager that handles the stores in the state. He was the one that called me out of the blue wanting to know if I'd be interested in selling bundles to them.


The guy I was dealing with, the the regional outdoor/gardening purchasing manager outright told me that he didn't have time to "spoon feed" me when I asked questions.
Knowing now how it all ended up going I should have told him to shove it at that point. He certainly could have used some lessons in humility and courtesy!

I don't know why they never would give me a price on them. Just the required 2 million in insurance and the bar code I would have needed to pay for would have cost me close to $2500 for a year.
Yup... 2 million in insurance for a small time guy to show up at the loading dock with a few pallets of bundles a week. No idea what could happen to do that much damage!


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## TeeMan




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## Wood Doctor

ValleyFirewood said:


> I don't have that spreadsheet in front of me, but yes, it was around 10-12 stores (in an area of around 400,000 people). I would have been an additional vendor, they already have 2 outfits doing it but they couldn't keep up.
> The one outfit also does the local gas stations. I had looked into it (knew the manager of the local store so she gave me the info) They only pay around $2.25 a bundle and sell them for $6 each.
> I'm not sure how the other guy can sell them that cheap and be ok. I sat down and really ran the numbers (best I could) and was looking at around $2.00 a bundle in direct costs.
> 
> On top of that he has to deliver the bundles to all the gas stations in a radius of about 100 miles. Not sure how often he does it, but most of the gas stations have just a small pile by the store, maybe 30-50 bundles.
> 
> The bundles are .75 cu ft, so let's say 160 bundles to a cord if he's fairly stingy. That's $360 a cord. Can sell it as bulk wood for $275, so $85 "profit". Take away about .75 a bundle for the wrap, label and labor... that a "profit" of $10. And that's not counting having to deliver it for that price too.
> Makes no sense to me.
> 
> As far as the grocery store, it was a mega headache dealing with them. They expected me to know how they do things and who to talk to. The irritating thing too is they brag all over about being "local"... we support local farmers, producers, "buy local" etc. They've had wood bundles or sale there from Utah, Texas, and even Lithuania! (I'm not kidding!)
> 
> The only info I had really was from a manager that handles the stores in the state. He was the one that called me out of the blue wanting to know if I'd be interested in selling bundles to them.
> 
> The guy I was dealing with, the the regional outdoor/gardening purchasing manager outright told me that he didn't have time to "spoon feed" me when I asked questions.
> Knowing now how it all ended up going I should have told him to shove it at that point. He certainly could have used some lessons in humility and courtesy!
> 
> I don't know why they never would give me a price on them. Just the required 2 million in insurance and the bar code I would have needed to pay for would have cost me close to $2500 for a year.
> Yup... 2 million in insurance for a small time guy to show up at the loading dock with a few pallets of bundles a week. No idea what could happen to do that much damage!


Just to add some fresh meat here. I received a call recently from one of my steady buyers. He found another buyer of my firewood. I believe he was a bit skeptical that I would be able to supply two truckloads of good seasoned firewood per month to another customer.

I said the magic word in today's millennial language: "No Problem."

Well, I haven't heard a peep since. That's the way it is these days. Just for the record, I collected another truckload of dry wood today, all ready to split. I'll do that tomorrow.


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## Ontario Firewood Resource

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I don't have that spreadsheet in front of me, but yes, it was around 10-12 stores (in an area of around 400,000 people). I would have been an additional vendor, they already have 2 outfits doing it but they couldn't keep up.
> The one outfit also does the local gas stations. I had looked into it (knew the manager of the local store so she gave me the info) They only pay around $2.25 a bundle and sell them for $6 each.
> I'm not sure how the other guy can sell them that cheap and be ok. I sat down and really ran the numbers (best I could) and was looking at around $2.00 a bundle in direct costs.
> 
> On top of that he has to deliver the bundles to all the gas stations in a radius of about 100 miles. Not sure how often he does it, but most of the gas stations have just a small pile by the store, maybe 30-50 bundles.
> 
> The bundles are .75 cu ft, so let's say 160 bundles to a cord if he's fairly stingy. That's $360 a cord. Can sell it as bulk wood for $275, so $85 "profit". Take away about .75 a bundle for the wrap, label and labor... that a "profit" of $10. And that's not counting having to deliver it for that price too.
> Makes no sense to me.
> 
> As far as the grocery store, it was a mega headache dealing with them. They expected me to know how they do things and who to talk to. The irritating thing too is they brag all over about being "local"... we support local farmers, producers, "buy local" etc.
> They've had wood bundles or sale there from Utah, Texas, and even Lithuania! (I'm not kidding!)
> 
> The only info I had really was from a manager that handles the stores in the state. He was the one that called me out of the blue wanting to know if I'd be interested in selling bundles to them.
> 
> 
> The guy I was dealing with, the the regional outdoor/gardening purchasing manager outright told me that he didn't have time to "spoon feed" me when I asked questions.
> Knowing now how it all ended up going I should have told him to shove it at that point. He certainly could have used some lessons in humility and courtesy!
> 
> I don't know why they never would give me a price on them. Just the required 2 million in insurance and the bar code I would have needed to pay for would have cost me close to $2500 for a year.
> Yup... 2 million in insurance for a small time guy to show up at the loading dock with a few pallets of bundles a week. No idea what could happen to do that much damage!


Forget the big companies. depending on your location, there may be plenty of pricate customers. I sell firewood and provide junk removal service. Cash at the end of the job is inifinitely less time consuming that going through the commercial route and all the politics that surround it.


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## Ontario Firewood Resource

Here's how to season firewood as fast as you possibly can


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