# Greenhorn alert, spiked my foot



## NeoTree (Dec 4, 2009)

This happened to me last weekend. I was working on my climbing skills in my woods and just put my spikes on. I threw my climbing line up real nice about 30 feet up over a branch and lost my balance over a hidden branch under the leaves. I end up stepping back with my left foot which thre me off. somehow i end up stepping forward with the right and spiked my left right on the tendon behind the ankle, about a 1/2 inch or so. i was surprised how quick it went through denim and boot. 

I fell over scared to take off my boot off. It maybe could of used a couple stitches but was pretty much just a puncture wound. That night i couldnt put any preassure on the foot, and only got a few hours sleep because it was pounding. woke up the next day with a little limp. now i can barely feel it. 

not so bad of an injury i guess, i consider myself lucky still, i dont know how it missed my tendon. I'm trying to get experience climbing. obviously i need alot more.


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## grizzly2 (Dec 4, 2009)

Yet another reason to not use spikes on trees. Climb on rope, it's safer!!

:sword:


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Dec 4, 2009)

good thing you didnt sever your archiles tendon you woldnt be walkin for a long while


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## ddhlakebound (Dec 4, 2009)

grizzly2 said:


> Yet another reason to not use spikes on trees. Climb on rope, it's safer!!
> 
> :sword:



Ever try blocking down a stem with no spikes? Trying to do that only on rope would definitely NOT be safer. 

Neo, sorry to hear of your injury, but glad it was minor. Grizzly2 does have a point, unless the tree being spiked is a removal, it should only be climbed without spikes. Perhaps you can find a freshly dead tree to spike the heck out of for a month or two learning. 

My spikes are the last thing I put on before beginning a removal, and the first thing I take off when I hit the ground. I only want to take a couple steps to the tree, and climb. Ropes already set, everything thats going up with you already in reach, then put the spikes on. 

I've only scratched myself so far, but worry sometimes when crossing over legs sometimes moving around obstacles. I've read of some pretty serious injuries from a mis-spike. 

Also, wearing your spikes while still on the ground leaves them susceptible to being dulled, which presents it's own set of dangers.

Good luck, and climb safe.


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## grizzly2 (Dec 4, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> Ever try blocking down a stem with no spikes? Trying to do that only on rope would definitely NOT be safer.



Agreed, I was making more of a joke/observation. I personally would rather do all my removals without spikes if I could. Since I can't, I use them regularly. If I know that I can cut everything down to a manageable spar, then I'll go without them. Sorry about the thread hijack, but I just wanted to clarify my earlier comment.

Also, I feel that it is much better to learn how to climb WITHOUT spikes first. Get the knots and techniques down, then introduce another piece of hardware.


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## canopyboy (Dec 4, 2009)

I was doing a job with a guy here on AS who managed to slip (in the tree) and spike himself good through his boot near the anklebone as he was blocking down the spar if memory serves. Had blood squirting out through the boot. He had to bail on his climb line to bandage himself up, and the rest of the day was all mine.


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## canopyboy (Dec 4, 2009)

Oh, and I agree - the spikes are the last thing to go on at the base of the tree and the first thing to come off when I'm done.

Double Oh, and the first tree I blocked down was without spikes. They do make life easier.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 6, 2009)

I guess you have to practice somewhere but were you spike a healthy tree just for the fun of it? 


SOM stirs the pot...


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## briggstwiggs (Dec 6, 2009)

grizzly2 said:


> Yet another reason to not use spikes on trees. Climb on rope, it's safer!!
> 
> :sword:



tell me this were does the oil go from your chain while trimming a tree. I think spikes are less harmfull then the oil that goes in the fresh cut. sorry I had that on my mind for a few years. I climb with and without spikes I got to tell ya for the time sake I would much rather climb with spikes. instead of getting all that crap out and packing it back up. takes time to get all riged up. I dont use spikes on thin barked trees but got to tell you your not going to hert a live oak with spikes you dont even get a 1/4in through the bark they have some thik bark. Just my beliefs dont kill me for it.


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## briggstwiggs (Dec 6, 2009)

briggstwiggs said:


> tell me this were does the oil go from your chain while trimming a tree. I think spikes are less harmfull then the oil that goes in the fresh cut. sorry I had that on my mind for a few years. I climb with and without spikes I got to tell ya for the time sake I would much rather climb with spikes. instead of getting all that crap out and packing it back up. takes time to get all riged up. I dont use spikes on thin barked trees but got to tell you your not going to hert a live oak with spikes you dont even get a 1/4in through the bark they have some thik bark. Just my beliefs dont kill me for it.


 Grizzley didnt mean to make comment at you clicked wrong place


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## treemandan (Dec 6, 2009)

Wow, dude jabbed himself in the foot with his spikes and he wasn't even in the tree?


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## NeoTree (Dec 6, 2009)

ya i dont know how i missed my achilles but it did. I feel pretty dumb, i thought gaffs were a climbers best friend. My teacher is a 78 year old tree veteran, he use to outwork all of us young guns, but he came down with intestinal cancer, and our training sessions were cut short. He's still fighting it though, one hell of a guy, vietnam vet too.


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## outofmytree (Dec 8, 2009)

I have never spiked myself but then I am a cowardly climber too. I do weak things like check my set before moving up, stamping hard to ensure a good bite and even, (shudder) looking where I am going! 

All joking aside, sorry to hear you stuck yourself dude. Accidents like this will make you a better climber so long as you listen to the lesson.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 8, 2009)

briggstwiggs said:


> tell me this were does the oil go from your chain while trimming a tree. I think spikes are less harmfull then the oil that goes in the fresh cut. sorry I had that on my mind for a few years. I climb with and without spikes I got to tell ya for the time sake I would much rather climb with spikes. instead of getting all that crap out and packing it back up. takes time to get all riged up. I dont use spikes on thin barked trees but got to tell you your not going to hert a live oak with spikes you dont even get a 1/4in through the bark they have some thik bark. Just my beliefs dont kill me for it.



My guess is the moisture in the tree repels most of the oil, and if it does clog the pores, that would prevent entry of other pathogens.

A spike wither it goes thru the cambium or just to it leaves an open place for entry. 
the structure of most live oaks makes for easy climbing without spikes.
"getting all that crap out and packing it back up" is just a part of the Job.


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## lego1970 (Dec 8, 2009)

I've poked myself a couple times but nothing major. It seems easier to do as you spike up skinny trunks. As others mentioned they are the last and first thing I take off before and after climbing. 

I started climbing without gaffs and it actually took me a long time to feel comfortable with them on. I especially hated limb walking with gaffs on. A year after I first started climbing the company I worked for allowed me to use them. Since then I use spikes about 80% of the time, however aside from the company above, most of my jobs are removals, or limb removals on trees that the customers don't really even like, yet don't want to spend the money to have it removed. I have never read any articles on the subject of gaffs versus no gaffs, and my view point is open to change, however this is my observation. I have spiked hundreds of trees along with hundreds of other tree workers that have spiked hundreds of trees and a lot of trees have been spiked several times thruout their lives. I have not noticed any trees that I've spiked or other trees that I know others have spiked show any noticeable deteriotion in health. Having said it's possible that I may have killed dozens of trees or severely stressed them since I can't remeber where all the trees that I've climbed are at, however the trees that I can remember and happen to drive by every once in awhile, are still there and appear healthy. 

So in closing what I'm saying is that I try not spike up every tree but, from just from my observation I'm not convinced that it's that hard on a tree assuming that the gaffs are clean and no outbreak of diseases or pest are present in the area. If any of you have any links to articles with proven studies that totally disagree with my observation I would like to read about it and yes my view point is subject to change if I came across good studies that proved otherwise.


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## Behemoth Jim (Dec 8, 2009)

My boss spikes all takedowns, and goes spikeless on trims, for the most part.


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## rarefish383 (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm retired, all the big equipment is gone. Pick up and dump trailer is all I have left. A relative has a wooded lot with 24 big Oaks. The house is a rental. Each tree had one or two big dead limbs he wanted out for the safety of the renter. He said he planned to take them all down for timber in the near future. I got one of my cousins climbers to help me and told him all the trees were coming down soon and the job was priced to just run up the trees and knock the dead wood out and come down. He flat out refused to hook the live trees. There is right and wrong and I've got to pat him on the back for knowing the difference. I would have hoooked them,my bad, Joe.


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## mattfr12 (Dec 31, 2009)

a guy i use to work with spiked his foot. when he was coming out of a maple tree he had like 2 feet left to the bottom he unhooked his lanyard and jumped and stabed his foot pretty bad.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jan 1, 2010)

NeoTree said:


> ...
> not so bad of an injury i guess, *i consider myself lucky still, i dont know how it missed my tendon*.
> ...





ddhlakebound said:


> ...
> *My spikes are the last thing I put on before beginning a removal, and the first thing I take off when I hit the ground.* I only want to take a couple steps to the tree, and climb. Ropes already set, everything thats going up with you already in reach, then put the spikes on.
> ...
> Also, wearing your spikes while still on the ground leaves them susceptible to being dulled, which presents it's own set of dangers.
> ...



*NeoTree*, sorry to read about your injury - glad it wasn't worse. There's another risk in the heel area. The Achilles Tendon got it's name from the oral mythology that Achilles died by a spear injury to the heel ... specifically to the artery that runs by the tendon - he bled out, or so some believe.

Also, you might consider checking that your tetanis shots are up-to-date.

Gotta agree with *ddhlakebound* and *canopyboy* about spikes being _"the last thing I put on"_. But, I'm used to working in extremely rocky ground. So, I take it a step further (pun intended) - I made a cheap set of gaff guards (pic below). After the climbers are on and the lanyard is around the tree, I pull off one gaff guard and the gaff goes in the tree - then the other. They go back on before I step down. So, the gaffs never touch the ground. That way there's no danger of ruining a gaff on a rock, or tripping, etc., etc.

Be safe, be lucky, Happy New Year 
- Jack

*GAFF GUARD MADE FROM SCAP HEATER HOSE*


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## rarefish383 (Jan 1, 2010)

Like others have said, last thing on and first thing off is, the only way to go with your hooks. For safety and to keep them sharp. I always walked so bow legged to keep one foot away from the other it was uncomfortable. Thinking about walking around bow legged reminded me of some knuckle head we used to see at eating places in the Wash D.C. area. All of the working class guys used to eat at the same places. One of our favorites were Peoples Drug Stores. We used to see this knuckle head get out of their truck and strap on hooks and saddle and head into the store for lunch. My Dad asked one of the climbers he knew for that company what was up with this guy? He said the guy wasn't a climber but he thought all of the girls would think he was hot because he was a tree climber, and all of the guys would think he was bad because he was a tree climber. All the practice he got walking around with hooks he probaly never stuck himself, but he probably never climed a tree either, Joe.


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## RacerX (Jan 1, 2010)

Behemoth Jim said:


> My boss spikes all takedowns, and *goes spikeless on trims, for the most part*.



There are a lot of professionals who would have a problem with using spikes on _any_ pruning job.


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## Bermie (Jan 8, 2010)

I have some nice holes in my chainsaw trousers down by the ankles...gotten close on some narrow trunked trees but never through to where it matters.

Happy healing...pay attention!


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## NeoTree (Jan 11, 2010)

i definately learned my lesson. It healed up fine with no problems, i got myself a new pair of climbing boots for christmas and back to climbing ropes in the basement


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## outonalimbts (Jan 13, 2010)

*Occupational Hazard!*

Neo, I too have spiked myself a couple of times, it seems pretty stupid each time it has happened. The first time was after about 12 years of climbing, there was this incredible windstorm where the wind was blowing around 65 mph, it had split a Bradford pear, part of the tree hit the roof, the rest was teetering. 

I secured the split part of the trunk with a couple of chains, and climbed up. The wind hadn't subsided, and there was a danger of the rest to crash down on this home. I installed a zip line so that some of the wild ride would be dampened. This worked, but then I dropped a glove, it landed on the porches roof, I descended and hooked my foot when I re-entered the tree. Still wear the scar.

The second time was just a few weeks ago- lol! I was limb walking at the top of a tree. I needed to remove a long branch in 2 pieces, so I had to progress out. My tie in was almost level to my position, I wasn't out more than 12 feet when- the wind gusted, the branch that I was on was a large water sprout, it twisted over like a piece of paper in the wind, I went on "the ride for life", it wasn't that far to drop nor a violent swing, but it was a ride. My right leg deflected off the trunk into my left leg... Not a bad stab at all, just a reminder...

I have done actual stupid things as well- I once continued a climb when my hard hat took a tumble, the very next cut resulted in a clunk to my noggin. 

Thankfully, I have been lucky to have learned from all of these postings, I haven't needed to learn the deadly mistakes myself. I just keep in my mind that this is the most dangerous profession around. I am more likely to be injured at this work than in any other field. The statistics show this clearly.

Unfortunately, there are always lessons to be learned in this business. Rushing is a no-no. I was doing some contract climbing for a green horn, first off he isn't a good climber, secondly he tends to rush, I was under pressure to complete a two day job in one day- I relented and climbed one more removal just before dark, I knew I would have to rush and I should have just come back, but instead I climbed. I made a mistake, I ended up choosing to take too much of a spar, I trusted that my groundie understood my instructions, and I didn't get out of the way, when the top came out.

The groundie was supposed to allow the rope to run, instead he pulled up the slack and held it, causing the top to cantilever on the face and swing backward thus driving the spar into my mouth. It hurt, it sheered off my front tooth, drove my upper teeth up, and my lower teeth down, painful. I had just mentioned that this could happen, if the top wasn't allowed to run... 

This was and still is a painful and expensive mistake. The first lesson I had to relearn was that as a climber I must make the decision when not to climb as well as how to climb and get the project completed safely. The second lesson was DO NOT RUSH. Its just like the no running sign at the pool! This rule is to keep us safe.

In this business there are many occupational hazards. Be careful it is dangerous out there.

P.s. I only climb trees to be removed with spikes, (reason 1, it is unprofessional to climb with spikes on trees that will continue to live) 
:greenchainsaw:


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## plowboy (Feb 10, 2010)

i agre.know what,they need to band deer from the woods when the deer are in rot i bet just about ever tree at some time has been spick up pitty bad by deer and look at how close to the ground that happins all those dang bugs . sorry just gets old hearing about how bad its for the tree.


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## highpointtree (Feb 10, 2010)

NeoTree said:


> ya i dont know how i missed my achilles but it did. I feel pretty dumb, i thought gaffs were a climbers best friend. My teacher is a 78 year old tree veteran, he use to outwork all of us young guns, but he came down with intestinal cancer, and our training sessions were cut short. He's still fighting it though, one hell of a guy, *vietnam vet* too.



vietnam ? or Korean vet..


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## tree md (Feb 10, 2010)

I put one through my big toe onetime.

I had 9 trees to remove I believe (been a long time) and had about three pines close together. I was swinging from tree to tree to set lines in these tree so I didn't have to come all the way to the ground and start up one of the other trees. I kicked off and did a 180 and when I landed on the next tree my gaff punched through my right big toe. Bad thing was that those were the only three trees I could just get a line in and drop. The rest of them had to be pieced out. I didn't take off my boot to look. Had blood dripping out of my boot the rest of that day but I got paid. That was like the first or second year I was climbing. Learned a lesson on that deal and never repeated that mistake.

I will wear my spikes on the ground sometimes when I've got multiple removals and I don't want to take the time to remove them and put them back on between every tree. But I use pole gaffs on about 99% of my removals and they are too short to hit the ground.


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## Dale (Feb 11, 2010)

> vietnam ? or Korean vet..



There are quite a few Vietnam Vets that are of that age, even older. Pennsylvania just lost one the other day in congressman John Murtha. Don't forget John McCain.

Back on topic. I don't climb, but it appears that is imperative you all keep your gaffs sharp. That said, why don't you guys have your groundies remove the spikes when you're a foot or two off the ground ? Don't your groundies like you all ???? :biggrinbounce2:


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## NeoTree (Feb 11, 2010)

Vietnam, he was the only one in his platoon to make it back he said. I could'nt imagine that crap.


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## constantine (Feb 11, 2010)

Neo, sorry to hear about your injury. Glad you have healed up - but it could have been lots worse. Those gaff guards that SingleJack makes up look like a great idea. The guys from the local power company have them (look like a commercial item, made of tough plastic with a flat metal tip), tho' they don't have to climb many poles. They always use the bucket truck if there's enough room to get it in by the pole.


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## treeclimber101 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thats a horrible injury very painful , it happened to me and like a fool I let mine get infected and when I couldn't take it anymore I went to the hospital only to find out that the infection was the least of my wound but the chip out of my ankle bone need to be operated on ... I lost three weeks from that and when I went back to work it took almost 6 months for the pain to go away , they are midevil and barberic tools , lol..


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## NeoTree (Feb 15, 2010)

ouch thats terrible, the more i think about it the luckier i think i am that i didnt hit anything like my ankle, tendon, or artery


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## DeAvilaTree (Feb 15, 2010)

I wear my spikes especially on take downs but I do wear them when pruning as a "just in case". But back to the subject I've never spiked my self but I did spike my plastic gas can walking by it one time


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## talltreeclimber (Feb 17, 2010)

ive never spiked through my boots but i have put many holes in the bottom of my pants, spiked a rope a few times


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