# Stupid people



## ACE (May 8, 2008)

I got yet another call today from someone who wanted to know if I gave free over the phone prices for tree removal. All I said was no and hung up. The last time someone asked me that, they couldnt understand why I wouldnt give them a quote over the phone. Some people are just retarted. I should have just told him $10k.


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## Husky137 (May 8, 2008)

ACE said:


> Some people are just retarted.




I would have never guessed. 

RETARDED is the correct spelling.


You must be rolling in the dough and out straight with tree work.


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 8, 2008)

Hmmm. Good advice on how NOT to win business.

But that's okay, it's your business! Enjoy the bad reputation you're earning!


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## Sprig (May 8, 2008)

Hung up? What in the world is wrong with talking to a potential customer and giving them an idea of costs, good frikken gravey you must be very busy to not have to talk to people on da phone! Lucky you.


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## arbor pro (May 9, 2008)

Very poor business management. Some people just want to know if hiring a professional is even remotely within their budget so they ask for a ballpark range over the phone. If you can't give them a range over the phone, then you should have offered a site visit - not just said 'no' and hung up.

How many friends and family do you suppose they've told by now "don't call that jerk - he just hangs up on you!"...


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## arbor pro (May 9, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> When people ask for 'over the phone' prices I ask them how much their tree weighs because I charge by the pound. No joke.



Same reply as I gave to the original post...

I'll never understand you guys who seem to get a kick out of pissing off potential customers and every friend family member and coworker that they talk to! 

I hope, for your sake, you really are just joking... :bang:


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## arbor pro (May 9, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Not joking at all. My experience is people who expect flat bids for tree removals over the phone are mostly clueless and a waste of time. My question 'how much does it weigh?' is asked instantly and with as serious a voice as a septic pumper would use when questioned about price and asks 'how many gallons?'
> 
> Of course I don't use this line every time but it's been fun a few dozen times over the years.



If they are stumped by the question of 'how much does it weigh', do you offer them a site visit and an accurate quote vs just hanging up on them because they dared to ask for a quote over the phone? 

Nothing wrong with a little joking I guess so long as you're not just telling them where to go and abruptly slamming the phone down on them like it sounds ACE does...

Not that I'm a big fan of the old sitcom 'Friends' but, there was a character on the show, the 'Soup Nazi', that comes to mind when I think of someone getting PO'd at a customer for asking for a bid over the phone and yelling "NO BID FOR YOU!" while slamming down the phone...


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## splittah (May 9, 2008)

As a former business owner I certainly would not treat potential customers the way some
have suggested.

Over the long haul, through word of mouth, treating potential customers like that will cost you business, even if you are arrogant enough to think it won't. You may think it's funny but a prospective customer looking for simple ballpark figures certainly won't.

People talk, they know who they called, and you don't even know who they are on the phone. Towns are smaller than you think and I know what I would be telling people if I got treated that way. I would be telling people that you were the biggest :censored: and to not bother calling you. 

You guys really need to get over yourselves.

good luck, 
Dave


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## ACE (May 9, 2008)

Just so you guys know, I didnt hang up on the guy. My main point was that if they want a price over the phone they are going to want the absolute bottom price and its probably not worth the effort.


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## ropensaddle (May 9, 2008)

When they ask for price I ask so many questions that they usually just ask me to come and see it. Sometimes I will say worst case senerio is xxx middle of the road xx and if way easier than I am picturing x! This gives them the high and low and in between, and I inform them the price will depend on the amount of rigging degree of difficulty after looking at the job I can better elaborate!


I then inform them I am a member of professional groups in good standing with the community and am not trying to rip them or
myself off, so price determinations are based on site analysis.


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## ACE (May 9, 2008)

Maybe thats what Ill do.


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## Nuzzy (May 9, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Not that I'm a big fan of the old sitcom 'Friends' but, there was a character on the show, the 'Soup Nazi', that comes to mind when I think of someone getting PO'd at a customer for asking for a bid over the phone and yelling "NO BID FOR YOU!" while slamming down the phone...





That was a great episode. Although I'm guessing you're referring to the "Soup Nazi" that was on Seinfeld, not Friends


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## treemandan (May 9, 2008)

ACE said:


> Maybe thats what Ill do.



Well there you go.


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## treemandan (May 9, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Not joking at all. My experience is people who expect flat bids for tree removals over the phone are mostly clueless and a waste of time. My question 'how much does it weigh?' is asked instantly and with as serious a voice as a septic pumper would use when questioned about price and asks 'how many gallons?'
> 
> Of course I don't use this line every time but it's been fun a few dozen times over the years.



Such a pinnacle does exist and to quote Mel Brooks" Its good to be king!" To quote me " It sure is."
I slept all day and didn't even answer the phone although it was ringing.


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## alanarbor (May 12, 2008)

Some people will press the issue over the phone. My usual response is "I have to visit your site and meet with you in order to give you a fair and accurate price." Sometimes their response is, "well, it's about this big and blah, blah, blah....."

Then you have a little fun. "Well...... I'd really have to see it. Could you bring it in?"


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## Ekka (May 12, 2008)

Pricing Trees over the phone or internet blog page of mine says it all.

Yet today I still fielded an email that said this


> The three trees are quite close together and have branches that extend over power lines and would be close to extending over the house itself. Are you able to give a rough guide as to the cost



And I have no idea where they are (suburb), how big they are, what sort of gum they are etc. I did email back saying I needed to see the trees though.


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## arbor pro (May 12, 2008)

Nuzzy said:


> That was a great episode. Although I'm guessing you're referring to the "Soup Nazi" that was on Seinfeld, not Friends



Ah, yes - Seinfeld was the brilliant mastermind of the 'Soup Nazi' character. I'm not sure why I thought it was the Friends sitcom but, at least now I don't feel so bad admitting that I watched Seinfeld. 

I was a bit hesitant to admit that I had seen an episode of Friends for fear that I would be permanently banned from this site...


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## Adkpk (May 12, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> When people ask for 'over the phone' prices I ask them how much their tree weighs because I charge by the pound. No joke.



 

No such thing as an over the phone estimate. Not in my book.


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## southsoundtree (May 12, 2008)

anyone give an hourly rate over the phone?

Anyone give an hourly rate for any work? Removals? Tree Care? 

As one poster put it, some people are just wanting to know if its in their budget at all. 

Its an opportunity to say this is our price, this is what we're bringing to your location: Large truck with operator, large chipper with operators, one climber and two groundmen, etc for $xxx/ hour. 

When they say that it sounds expensive, its an opportunity to say, Of course there's insurance costs, worker's comp costs-- oh and it is one of the highest risk classes for employment, etc. 

Sell them on why you're providing a specialty, potentially dangerous service, insured as compared to someone working under the table with potentially less experience, etc, etc. Compare and contrast to professional plumbers, electricians, and other skilled tradespeople.


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## boltonranger (May 12, 2008)

*I have a question for you fellows who cut for a living...*

It's not my living so I would be curious if I lost a big tree and needed a service.
What I would be thinking is: "Could I buy a bigger saw and cut it all myself for less than a service?" Assuming there was no danger factor, widow-makers etc. That's what might tip the scales for some...

My question though; is: "_Could some of these callers be trying decide if they need to put in an insurance claim with their homeowners policy?_" vs. trying to pay it out of their own pocket; or doing their own cutting..
Just curious - be gentle. 
-br


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## arbor pro (May 12, 2008)

boltonranger said:


> It's not my living so I would be curious if I lost a big tree and needed a service.
> What I would be thinking is: "Could I buy a bigger saw and cut it all myself for less than a service?" Assuming there was no danger factor, widow-makers etc. That's what might tip the scales for some...
> 
> My question though; is: "_Could some of these callers be trying decide if they need to put in an insurance claim with their homeowners policy?_" vs. trying to pay it out of their own pocket; or doing their own cutting..
> ...



It's very likely that a large number of folks call just to get 'rough' estimates for insurance or just for budgeting in the future. I regularly get calls from folks who are buying properties (with or w/out homes) and need a general idea of what it will cost to do certain tree work or stump grinding so they can work the cost into their offer or consider it when applying for financing with the bank. I'm happly to obligue so long as they know a site visit and contract are necessary before any price is binding.

Often, I never hear from those callers again - they either do the work themselves or hire someone else and that's fine with me. But, sometimes, I get return calls after they close on the property and end up doing work with them just because I was courteous and professional the first time they called just looking for information.

I don't know about any of you but, I have to budget ahead of time for any significant home or property repairs. So, I try to call service companies several months before I plan to have any foreseen work done so I can find out how much to budget for it. I can tell you, it's tough to get an exterior painter to give you an estimate for painting your house when it's mid-January and 20 below outside! Nobody wants to show up for an estimate when they're booked up during the busy season or out ice fishing during the off-season. I ask for rough 'estimates' over the phone but, they won't give. So, I ask for a site visit but, no show. I keep going down the phone list until somebody responds professionally. Cost usually becomes less of an issue as finding someone who doesn't act uninterested or like an a$$ becomes more and more difficult.

I think the reason so many people like to get 'rough estimates' over the phone is because they've had bad luck in the past getting blokes to show up for a site estimate. They just want a rough number to know whether they can afford it or not and whether it's worth the effort of setting up the actual site visit.

I choose to be polite to inquiring callers in hope that some of them will give me their business sometime in the future. I know that if I speak rudely to them, I can be assured that none of them will be calling...


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## Ekka (May 12, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> LOL.
> 
> What "worth the effort" are you talking about? It being worth the tree owners effort to meet someone in their own front yard to get a quote? Or the arborists' effort of buying fuel and spending personal time looking at trees for free?



For 10 years almost every Saturday has been spent for free running around burning up a tank of gas. Hardly a weekend passes without calls of some type. Sundays you tend to get the rippers that go like this ... _*"Yeah G'day mate, was just wonderin' if ya could come round and give us a hand ya see I'm cuttin' me tree but there's this branch over the house I dunno how to do it, can ya come out today and how much would it cost?"
*_

Luckily I have daughters not sons and my wife takes them to dancing etc Saturday mornings but if I had sons doing sport it would be a different story. The general public has no idea of the impact of their demands, they think we have firemans poles to slide down and be out there faster than Pizza Hut .... all for free. Many times even on Saturdays I arrive and the job is done, being done, or they FORGET you are coming or AVOID answering the door coz they're having a sleep in.

This is not for all people but this thread is about *STUPID PEOPLE*, with that in mind perhaps it should read thoughtless people.

A good example is this thread. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=67876 The lady is trying to get some-one to do the trees for timber value (wow, you'll make a fortune doing that) whilst they run around tree guys getting quotes.


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## Adkpk (May 12, 2008)

*better question*

How many business owners have made money on, over the phone estimates? :monkey: 

OK, my turn, never because I've never given one. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## arbor pro (May 13, 2008)

I sell 90% of my stump grinding jobs over the phone - very seldom give site estimates unless a very big job. It wastes my time and my fuel. It also makes the customer take time out of his/her day to meet me at the site. Anything I can do to make the customer happy is what I'm going to do.

Most of my customers are very appreciative that I will give them an 'estimate' (mind you, not a final bid) over the phone. There are certainly times when the customer has not described the work properly so my price changes once I get to the job but, in almost every case, my price goes up and the customer says "fine by me, please do the work".

Now, I could understand some of your guys' points of view in not giving phone estimates if I was repeatedly showing up to do these jobs that I quoted over the phone and end up getting turned away at the job site by the customer because I tell them it will cost more - thus wasting significant time and expense by haulilng equipment to the site. However, that isn't happening in my case. I show up, say "sorry, the job is bigger than what you described so will cost 'x' amount more" and 99% of the time, they say, 'sounds fair - get to work'.

It works for me so, don't say 'nobody can make money giving estimates over the phone' because it's not true. Maybe in some of your cases but not in everybody's...


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## Blakesmaster (May 13, 2008)

There's a big difference in bidding a stump and a tree over the phone. Everyone can take a tape measure to a stump, look at the surrounding exposed roots and transfer that info to someone over the phone. Most customers I talk to on the phone don't know if their tree is a willow or a maple. Have no idea how high it is, can't guesstimate the dbh or anything that really matters. You think I'm going to trust any random Joe to spot the cable line shooting through the middle of the tree? Or remember that old barbed wire fence right at the base? There are far to many factors in giving an accurate bid to take down a tree for me to shoot some random number over the phone. I generally keep asking questions till the HO just has me come look at it.


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 13, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> I generally keep asking questions till the HO just has me come look at it.



From a homeowners viewpoint, that sounds reasonable to me. If it's done in a friendly manner, I think most people would respond well to that. Of course, if it's done in a smart alek manner, you might as well just hang up on them.


Blakesmaster, let me guess: You _sometimes_ get people who get ticked off at you and go away in a huff, but for the most part, they either just answer the questions, or get the point and invite you to come give an estimate.


Right? Or not?


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## Blakesmaster (May 13, 2008)

Right. I never try to come off condescending. I simply keep asking questions and eventually there's to many that they can't answer which is when I ask, "Where is this tree?" Just sold a little job to my bank lady yesterday the same way. The only time I get a little snide with my remarks is when they're trying to convince me that there's a log in the tree that should be worth my takedown expense. But that's a whole nuther thread.


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## Adkpk (May 13, 2008)

I never had any problem getting the address the first time I ask and it is often the second question. First question being what are you looking to do. Most people seem delighted I will come only after two questions and most while they are not home. Later or while I am at the site I call and discuss what can be done and what it will cost. If it is complicated I will meet them personally.


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## arbor pro (May 14, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> No one has said they can't get jobs or give estimates over the phone. This thread has been about a mostly clueless possible client wanting a tree removal bid over the phone.
> 
> Do you have to 'rig' many stumps down? LOL.



In that respect, you're absolutely correct. My bad for getting off subject. There have been other recent threads about quoting stumps over the phone and I guess I brought discussion from those threads into this one.

I agree that bidding tree work over the phone is very difficult. However, politeness will always get you further with customers than rudeness. There is never an excuse for being rude to a potential customer who doesn't know better and asks for a quote over the phone. That's really the only point I'd like to make here. 

Sorry for getting off track a bit.


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## splittah (May 14, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> In that respect, you're absolutely correct. My bad for getting off subject. There have been other recent threads about quoting stumps over the phone and I guess I brought discussion from those threads into this one.
> 
> *I agree that bidding tree work over the phone is very difficult. However, politeness will always get you further with customers than rudeness. There is never an excuse for being rude to a potential customer who doesn't know better and asks for a quote over the phone. That's really the only point I'd like to make here. *
> Sorry for getting off track a bit.



+1 for you... now THATS what I was talking about.

This man would get my business over some of the rest hands down just because of his attitude.

Say I did have 3 estimates done and I pick up on someones attitude such as some of these posts and he was curteous and polite about it and didn't seem condescending like I don't know diddly squat about it (which most don't) I would probably go with his bid even if he was a bit higher.

so yeah... in this scenario the others lose.


good post arbor pro, you are on the money! cheers


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 14, 2008)

splittah said:


> +1 for you... now THATS what I was talking about.
> 
> This man would get my business over some of the rest hands down just because of his attitude.
> 
> Say I did have 3 estimates done and I pick up on someones attitude such as some of these posts and he was curteous and polite about it and didn't seem condescending like I don't know diddly squat about it (which most don't) I would probably go with his bid even if he was a bit higher.




Yep. Life's too short to do business with rude people. 

And why a tree company should expect John Q. Public to understand the tree business is beyond me. So somebody doesn't understand that you can't give a quote over the phone? Wow! That's sure surprising!


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## ponderosatree (May 14, 2008)

ACE said:


> Just so you guys know, I didnt hang up on the guy. My main point was that if they want a price over the phone they are going to want the absolute bottom price and its probably not worth the effort.



Not always. I deal with a lot of people who call on the behalf of their boss/HOA/etc. and simply don't understand that we need to see the trees first. If I'm pressed for an average cost I usually give them a range and tell them our minimum charge. If the minimum charge doesn't scare them off I'll try and setup a meeting for an estimate.


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## ponderosatree (May 14, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> In that respect, you're absolutely correct. My bad for getting off subject. There have been other recent threads about quoting stumps over the phone and I guess I brought discussion from those threads into this one.
> 
> I agree that bidding tree work over the phone is very difficult. However, politeness will always get you further with customers than rudeness. There is never an excuse for being rude to a potential customer who doesn't know better and asks for a quote over the phone. That's really the only point I'd like to make here.
> 
> Sorry for getting off track a bit.



I disagree. I tell ALL my competitors to be rude to their clients.


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## highasatree (May 14, 2008)

I've given many a 'ball park figure' for tree work over the phone. Asking the right question and being polite is the key. Many times if a HO is, an hour away, and if I give them a quote over the phone, at least they will know if they can afford my daily rate before I come and look at the job. Its also about saving you the time to drive out and look at the work. Time is money, and I can weed out the best of them.


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## GarethVW (May 27, 2008)

*How much is a car?*

If I am asked to do a quote over the phone I sometimes tell them that it is like asking how much a car is. Not knowing if it is a Ferrari or a Metro. I then say that I do free estimates and I would be happy to come and see their tree and give a quote. That has worked for me and people usually understand that way.


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## Ekka (May 28, 2008)

I often get people asking for a rough idea or rough price, goes like this ....

.... " yeah it's you know, just your average gum tree, can you just give me a rough idea on what it would cost to get rid of it?"

I just tell him .... " we don't do anything rough around here including ideas, so I'll have to come and see it."


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