# 98' Bandit 250xp chips



## Wolfking42084 (Mar 11, 2014)

Hey guys,
I just bought a 98' Bandit 250xp. Everything is strong and works great except for the way I think it should throw chips. The RPMs are where my old 200xp were, but it only throws chips maybe 30 feet. Not near the force I think it should. Also, when I run a branch through, anything smaller than say a 1/2" just rips, don't chip, only trickling out the end of the shoot. The knives are brand new, so I was thinking anvil? Would that explain the ripping and the force of the chips? Thanks a bunch


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## arborlicious (Mar 12, 2014)

How many hours? Check for wear in the disk behind the knives - especially the outer ones. If it's scalloped out deeply like mine was after 5,000 hours then it might be time to fill it up with some weld and grind flat again before it cracks. Also, like you said the anvil is very important and needs to have a nice square edge. Either turn it around and adjust to 2.5mm or get a new one with 4 new edges.

All above info was care of Shaun - imagineero on here.

Steve


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 12, 2014)

2,300 hours. I will check that. Maybe the anvil/knife gap is too much from the anvil being worn, causing the smaller sticks to bend and break vs. being chipped. If so, no wonder it won't throw them out with force. whats the easiest way to get the 2.5mm gap measurement on the anvil?


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## gorman (Mar 12, 2014)

Bandit sells a gauge. Real cheap. Some guys use a cardboard piece from a book a matches.


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 12, 2014)

The gauge is handy but a credit card works fine too.


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## dbl612 (Mar 12, 2014)

Blakesmaster said:


> The gauge is handy but a credit card works fine too.


when you're done test the setting by sending the credit card through the chipper if it comes out shredded your good to go.


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 12, 2014)

I got a few that I should give that treatment to.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 12, 2014)

Yea I set mine to the fat side of a book a matches , that makes a pretty nice chip .


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## treesmith (Mar 12, 2014)

I'll send you my wife's 

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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 12, 2014)

Yeah, I wanted to run the card through several years back as well...luckily, we paid that off. Whats the best way to access the anvil? Thanks again guys


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## arborlicious (Mar 12, 2014)

There are three bolts on the side (1 1/8" or 1 1/4" socket I think) and also two anvil adjusters with nuts - you'll need a wrench for those.

If you've never inspected the anvil I'd suggest you take it out completely. A good time to replace any corroded fittings (most likely the lower of the two adjusting bolts) and apply some anti-seize. There are a couple of small threaded holes on the anvil for a bolt/screw to aid in holding the anvil in place during installation - not really necessary - I've never used them.

Always check and adjust the anvil when the knives are turned/swapped. Results in top quality wood chip.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 12, 2014)

I saw the exact bolts that your talking about. When I got the feed wheels jammed open, I think this is exactly my problem. There appears to be atleast 3/8" gap. Once I get the anvil out, just see if it has a perfect angle if flipping is an option?


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## arborlicious (Mar 12, 2014)

Yeah, should have 4 edges so you can flip over and flip around. Although maybe the older 250xps only had a 2 sided anvil?

I think new anvils in the US are pretty cheap say < $100 while in Australia they're about $300 from the bandit dealer.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 13, 2014)

The anvil was definitely a problem. It is the 12.5x4.5x.5" three hole. It had been flipped before, but 2 sides on the same edge were beveled almost like a pocket knife. The clearance was also way off. Thanks for the help guys. One edge was still new, so I rotated and reinstalled. Cleaning the mount and anvil very carefully, and using anti-seize on all 3 bolts. When I called the Bandit dealer, the anvil is $232. Anyone know of anywhere cheaper?


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## gorman (Mar 13, 2014)

Treeestuff has them cheaper.


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## Pelorus (Mar 14, 2014)

I talked to one of the knife manufacturer (Simonds?) at Expo last Nov., and it appears that at least some of them manufacture & supply anvils in addition to knives. Wish I had known that prior to buying my last anvil directly through Bandit USA. None were stocked at Nortrax (Ontario Bandit dealers) at that time....was a spendy transaction for a little piece 
of steel.


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## imagineero (Mar 15, 2014)

The anvil can be sharpened also. Either take it to a machine shop with a tool grinder and have them square it up, or do it yourself. It isn't all that hard if you're handy with a grinder. It needn't be perfect, and it isn't all that hard to improve upon the train wreck that most anvils look like. Some have had the steel completely worn off them so they're at a 20 degree angle instead of the 90 degrees it ought to be. If you're going to do it yourself, use a good straight edge and scribe a straight line on the anvil so you've got a reference to work to. Put it in a vice, and use a flap disk rather than a grinding disk. A grinding disk will heat the metal up and take the temper out of it. Go slow with the flap wheel and pour water over the anvil if it gets warm. It shouldn't ever get too warm to touch with your bare hand. It takes about 15 minutes each side depending on how bad it is.

You don't need to be a perfectionist about it. Just get it back to reasonably straight and square, and try to get most of the nicks out. It's going to get pounded all to hell in that machine anyhow, and what you've done has probably taken if from 10% effective to 90% effective. Don't fuss over the last 10%. Do fuss over getting your angle set dead perfect top and bottom though. Lots of guys set the gap too small and wear the anvil out real fast. 1/8" is what the manual calls for, and that works just fine. Any less and you're going to chew that anvil out quick for no real gain. You can use a piece of 1/8" metal strip, you've probably got a bit lying around somewhere.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 15, 2014)

My anvil only had one new edge left, so I will be ordering a new one next week. Thanks for all the help guys. I replaced the throttle cable today and re-wired my lights.


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## squad143 (Mar 16, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> I talked to one of the knife manufacturer (Simonds?) at Expo last Nov., and it appears that at least some of them manufacture & supply anvils in addition to knives. Wish I had known that prior to buying my last anvil directly through Bandit USA. None were stocked at Nortrax (Ontario Bandit dealers) at that time....was a spendy transaction for a little piece
> of steel.


I've had the same issues with Nortrax and ordered my anvil directly from Bandit. Then I took the new anvil to a buddy who is a machinist and he made me up 3 more. I think I'm good for a while 
The same friend sharpens my knives. It helps to know a tool and die maker.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey guys..! I'm glad I came across this thread as I've been looking for anvil information regarding this topic for a few months. Maybe y'all can help.. 

Weve been running an 00-02 Bandit 254, it was inherited when we bought someone out so the history or maintenance on it is not known well.. It's doing he same thing as the OP stated with it ripping small stuff as oppose to chipping it but that's not the major issue I've had with it. When trying to chip firewood length stuff it keeps getting jammed up in there, running lengthy brush through doesn't help push it through either. The boss man keeps talking bout the knives but we've changed them out & even though he thinks the problem goes away when we do, IT DOESNT. It's just a band aid for a week or so until it starts up again & the knives become suspect again. Before it said, No we don't run rocks through it.. Lol.. It's become quite the nuisance as when it jams up, production slows & as we all know, S$&@ rolls downhill. We've always run drum rigs & although they too have anvils, the issue never arose. As talented & hard working the boss man is, he doesn't exactly have the mechanical touch & thinks the issue is operator error or the knives being dull when I know there is more to the issue. Understanding that the anvil works like a sissor, would a worn out one keep logs from running through & cause them to just sit right there past the feed wheels? With the drum setup, it wasn't picky, it would take whatever you gave it vs now I have to keep a constant eye on who's putting what through it & that makes for a pain in a$$.


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 17, 2014)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> Hey guys..! I'm glad I came across this thread as I've been looking for anvil information regarding this topic for a few months. Maybe y'all can help..
> 
> Weve been running an 00-02 Bandit 254, it was inherited when we bought someone out so the history or maintenance on it is not known well.. It's doing he same thing as the OP stated with it ripping small stuff as oppose to chipping it but that's not the major issue I've had with it. When trying to chip firewood length stuff it keeps getting jammed up in there, running lengthy brush through doesn't help push it through either. The boss man keeps talking bout the knives but we've changed them out & even though he thinks the problem goes away when we do, IT DOESNT. It's just a band aid for a week or so until it starts up again & the knives become suspect again. Before it said, No we don't run rocks through it.. Lol.. It's become quite the nuisance as when it jams up, production slows & as we all know, S$&@ rolls downhill. We've always run drum rigs & although they too have anvils, the issue never arose. As talented & hard working the boss man is, he doesn't exactly have the mechanical touch & thinks the issue is operator error or the knives being dull when I know there is more to the issue. Understanding that the anvil works like a sissor, would a worn out one keep logs from running through & cause them to just sit right there past the feed wheels? With the drum setup, it wasn't picky, it would take whatever you gave it vs now I have to keep a constant eye on who's putting what through it & that makes for a pain in a$$.
> 
> ...


Adjusting your anvil and knives will help you immensely.


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## imagineero (Mar 17, 2014)

It's a common problem, and it isn't that hard to fix. The biggest cause I usually find is worn and incorrectly gapped anvil. The anvil must be square edged. Without a good square anvil properly adjusted, new knives do very little. With sharp knives and a good anvil and proper gap (1/8") logs actually 'suck in', they don't sit in the gap between the rollers and the disk any more. Without this, you're really driving the logs into the machine, putting a lot of stress on it, and sometimes the feed wheels are still struggling to get a grip. With sharp blades, a sharp anvil and correct gap, the feedwheels are actually slowing the log down! They have an easy time. If you lift the feedwheel while branches are not completely fed in yet, the branches will get sucked in quick, just like a chuck n duck.

That covers 90% of it. The rest of it is just basics; feed logs end on, try to chip downhill if you're on a slope, feed a branch through after the last log, make sure your engine speed is set right.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Mar 18, 2014)

Hey dude! Thanks..That solidifies my suspicion! I guarantee that thing is all out of wack as the chipper came with a bunch of different knives, all significantly different sizes. Also the gap where you adjust the anvil on the outside is pretty big compared to this picture. This pic is a 250, we have a 254, could it being a different model be another reason for a bigger gap. I'm going on photographic memory here so I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the actual anvil is visible on ours like it is here. Could it be maxed out on adjustment & be somewhat hidden?





Now, I've seen the bandit tutorials on servicing the anvil, for some reason I got it stuck in my head that once you adjust the anvil you have to realign/adjust the belts... I don't know why I think that but I could of sworn I heard it in that video or a different one by bandit. You don't have to do that right?


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## imagineero (Mar 23, 2014)

The gap doesn't really matter that much, the gap between the blades and anvil, and the condition of the anvil are critical. You do not have to adjust or align the belts when doing the anvil.

An anvil with a round edge really sucks a lot of power out of the machine... the chips try to 'roll' round the edge instead of chipping clean. Just like trying to cut paper with blunt scissors. End result is a lot of tearing and wasted energy, bigger chips, and very twiggy output on smalll stuff. To compensate, most guys will reduce the anvil gap. All this does is wears your anvil out even faster and quickly makes your situation worse. It increases the stress on your disk bearings too. 




Here's a 'before'. Anvil has been totally screwed. Not only is the edge not crisp and square, but the entire anvil has been lunched on by the baldes over time, chamfering it at 45 degrees. Combination of blunt blades, worn bearings and incorrectly set anvil gap brought about this destruction. No need to drop 400 big boys on a new anvil though;




A quick tidy up with a flap disk to get bare metal exposed, then a couple beads with a mig welder and a tidy up with a grinder brings 4 new edges back to this anvil in about half an hour. Nice crisp square edge the whole way along, and nice and straight.


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## gorman (Mar 23, 2014)

If using a rod, what type do you recommend for this type of hard surfacing on an anvil?


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## jimmycrackcorn (Mar 23, 2014)

Wow, thanks for those pictures & extra explanation. Is the reason for adding a few beads of weld because there isn't enough adjustment left after the grind to make proper clearances?


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## imagineero (Mar 24, 2014)

gorman said:


> If using a rod, what type do you recommend for this type of hard surfacing on an anvil?



Some guys talk up hardfacing on anvils, but I'm not a fan of it. I just use ER70S2 in my mig because that's what I happen to have. If I was going to stick weld it I'd use 7016's in 2.4mm and not too much current. 

I did a lot of hardfacing of augers, grader blades, shovel teeth etc both with mig and stick and it does increase the life of edges that get a lot of abrasion wear. For edges that get a lot of impact wear, hardfacing is not generally a good idea. There's all kinds of hardfacing, and some proprietary sacrifical plates that can be welded on made out of chromium carbides etc, and they all have different characteristics, but a good general rule for plain vanilla welded hardfacing is that it leaves a brittle edge that's more prone to chipping/cracking. One layer is not so bad, particularly if you have the current on your machine up high since the hardfacing combines with the metalurgy of the piece being hardfaced, and you end up with an alloy. If you weld a second pass over that, it gets a whole lot harder and more brittle though! Many welded hardfacings are put on cold so they sit proud and don't combine much. If you put a second pass on top, they often crack as your welding them. To me, the anvil surface is an impact surface and I'd rather have something a little softer there. I don't know the metallurgy of it. 

I used to hardface some of my own tools, till I read about a fatality that occured with a guy doing the same. He made and hardfaced some of his own small tools like punches, cold chisels etc, which is something I used to do also. While working with a punch one day, he started to get real tired, and dizzy. Felt like he couldn't breathe and had to have a sit down. Passed out and died not long after. Turned out the tip of the punch had broken when he struck it with the sledge, and pierced his lung causing it to fill with blood. I cut up all my hardfaced tools with an oxy that day and threw them in the scrap bin. Don't ever apply hardfacing to impact tools, hammers, chisels and striking surfaces etc.


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## imagineero (Mar 24, 2014)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> Wow, thanks for those pictures & extra explanation. Is the reason for adding a few beads of weld because there isn't enough adjustment left after the grind to make proper clearances?




I didn't build the whole surface up, just the missing part. I would have had to grind 3/8" or more off the whole anvil otherwise.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 27, 2014)

So....Finally used the 250xp today, the first time since flipping the anvil and adjusting the gap. It was making an excellent chip, however, it still doesn't blow them out with any force. Chipping stuff onto the ground today, my farthest chip went maybe 15 feet. The guy I bought t off of had told me that he had just changed the belts...could this have something to do with the lack of force?? please help!!


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## jimmycrackcorn (Mar 27, 2014)

Wolfking42084 said:


> So....Finally used the 250xp today, the first time since flipping the anvil and adjusting the gap. It was making an excellent chip, however, it still doesn't blow them out with any force. Chipping stuff onto the ground today, my farthest chip went maybe 15 feet. The guy I bought t off of had told me that he had just changed the belts...could this have something to do with the lack of force?? please help!!



I wonder what engine you have? There are a few different options available in these things, some with more power than others. I beleive we have the cummins 4bt in our 254, I thought it had some balls but seen a friend of ours running his 250, it sounded like it ran with much more authority. Only thing I could think of was it had a bigger engine.

Did yours use to throw further? I'm always chipping into a dump so I can't help you with a comparison.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 27, 2014)

I have the cummins 4bt as well. My old 200xp with a 4bt also, will sling the chips


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## jimmycrackcorn (Mar 27, 2014)

Wolfking42084 said:


> I have the cummins 4bt as well. My old 200xp with a 4bt also, will sling the chips
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I've read that some if those 4bt Cummins have adjustable fuel pumps. I wonder if that would be a easy way to gain extra power. As simple as they are, I wish I knew more about tweaking them. I'm currently looking to ditch the powerstroke I have & jump to cummins just for the ease of working on them. So much room in the engine bay.

Anyways back to the topic, what does it sound like? Is it running correctly? Fuel filters plugged up, air filters clogged, sticky injectors? These things get run in a horrible environment.. Especially the radiator placement. Our clogs & overheats if not maintained daily. The fins in the radiator get caked beyond belief.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 27, 2014)

The motor sounds great. I don't know the exact RPMs, but it is turning where I think it should(based on very other bandit that I've been around). Loose belts? Motor would be turning fine, but not turning the disc at the speed it should?


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## jimmycrackcorn (Mar 27, 2014)

Wolfking42084 said:


> The motor sounds great. I don't know the exact RPMs, but it is turning where I think it should(based on very other bandit that I've been around). Loose belts? Motor would be turning fine, but not turning the disc at the speed it should?



Could very well be loose belts, maybe they only slip under load. The only way I think you would be able to tell while under load would be by smelling as it's so friggin loud you wouldnt be able to hear. Open the hatch & see if they are melted or really smooth or loose.

Belts arent the only thing that can slip either.. What happens when the clutch is adjusted all the way down to the last notch & worn out? Would that cause it to not be engaged fully? 

Btw, Our 254 with the 4bt runs @2800 incase you needed a reference.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 27, 2014)

Thank you


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 27, 2014)

If it isn't under a chipping load the disk will be up to full rpm. Shove in a long fairly straight 6 to 8 inch branch. Listen to the cutting speed. If the belts are slipping, you will hear the cutting speed slow down. Normally, if they are slipping, you will hear them squeal when engaging the clutch. If the clutch was slipping you should be able to smell it.
Are the air paddles in good shape?

JCC posted while I was typing.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 27, 2014)

They seem to be in really good shape. How should the belt tension be with the clutch not engaged?


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 27, 2014)

The clutch should not affect belt tension. I assume you have a Twin-Disk clutch or a similar design. Belts should be just tight enough, not to squeal, when the clutch is engaged a bit on the harsh side. Disk not turning, engine at about 1000 rpms.


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## imagineero (Mar 28, 2014)

It would help if you get a video up. If you can't manage a video maybe a few photos. One of the disk cover taken from the discharge side, one with the cover open showing the paddles and bolt area, one from the front of the disk showing the blades, and another showing your anvil gap. 

Without more information we're really just shooting blind. Could be so many things. Does it not have a tach? Engine speed would be one possibility, anvil shape and gap another, air paddles, scooped out/worn area behind the cutting blades, some sort of chute blockage, air not getting into the disk area, etc etc... 

For what it's worth, I've got the perkins 120 turbo and with a good anvil and blades it throws the chip hard enough it lifts the chute with logs. The furthest remnants of chip will unfortunately travel as far as 70' of the chute manages to rotate itself clear of the truck :-( You can easily throw the bulk of it 35~40' when shipping onto the ground.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 28, 2014)

I think you and arborlicious were right about the scalloped out disc behind the blades. Can I just fill it with weld, or can I add a piece of plate steel to cover that entire area?


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## imagineero (Mar 28, 2014)

that by itself is probably not enough of a factor to reduce your chip discharge so much, but it would be a major contributing factor. You have to clean the metal well, pre heat, fill with weld (cold) and clean in between passes. Post heat and cover with an insulating mat for a slow cool down to take some of the stress out of the metal, or you will end up with cracking. Peening in between passes is another way to reduce the embodied stress. Grind square once done.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 28, 2014)

The belts are new and are tensioned correctly, I take it Monday to have a guy check the clutch


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 28, 2014)

I can check that clutch, even rebuild it if need be. I can check the wear on the disk as well. You have my number, and I can do it over the weekend so as not to screw up your work week.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 28, 2014)

VA, thanks so much. Let me give you a call early next week


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 31, 2014)

My 200 has an air hole on the motor side of the disc cover. My 250 does not. Do you guys think this could be part of the problem?


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## VA-Sawyer (Apr 1, 2014)

It needs air from somewhere. This sure is hard to do over the net. If I send you pictures of my moms Cherry Pie, can you tell me if it is good? That is what it seems like sometimes. Maybe I just need to drive over and see it in person.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Apr 1, 2014)

You still having issues?


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## imagineero (Apr 6, 2014)

Yawn.

I'm sure your moms pie is delicious


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## Wolfking42084 (Apr 6, 2014)

Hahahahaha. I'm sure


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