# standing dead...does it need to be seasoned?



## rmihalek (Jun 21, 2013)

A fellow in town wants me to drop 6 large red oaks in one of his back fields.

These trees died several years ago due to a flood control dam that was installed by the state. 

I haven't had much experience using standing dead wood for firewood, but I'm wondering how long I should let this wood dry out before trying to burn it (or sell it)?


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## morewood (Jun 21, 2013)

You will find that the wood still holds a good bit of water. Cut it down, split it, and go from there. Last year I cut a standing dead oak and I should have let it season for a full year before burning it.

Shea


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## CTYank (Jun 22, 2013)

The drying process will start once it's cut, split & stacked. Southern exposure and access to summer breezes, along with cover over top only will speed it up. 

Red oaks take about twice as long as other hardwoods to air-dry, so you need any advantage possible.

You'll find that the farther a given piece of wood is from the butt, the lower the MC.


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## Steve NW WI (Jun 22, 2013)

To sum up what the other guys said, it'll be lower moisture than a green cut tree, especially this time of year, but the lower end is sure to need seasoning, and even the tops will benefit from some seasoning time.

Bark off standing dead elm, I'll run the tops straight to the stove, but most anything else goes to the stack, at least for a while.


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## Dusty Rhodes (Jun 22, 2013)

You could girdle a tree to where the cambium layer was not pulling any nutrients from the ground but water will still be pulled into the tree through the roots and into the sap wood for a few years following a tree's death. Generally speaking the longer the tree is dead the less moisture you should have but having said that it will also begin rotting at some point in there. I have burned a lot of standing dead oak and CT is right on target IMO. Get yourself an inexpensive Moisture Meter and you will know and can show your customers what moisture content the wood has.


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## haveawoody (Jun 22, 2013)

All comes down to location of the standing dead oaks.

If it was on a hill or high ground then split and a couple months to shed the last bit of water and your good to go.

If it was in a low spot or wet spot then split and maybe 6 months and your good to go.

All the branch wood and top 1/2 of the tree will be much drier than the lower 1/2 so your sure to have a mix of very dry ready to go wood soon after splitting and some that needs more drying time.

Most trees standing dead are good to go soon after splitting but some oaks can still be quite wet even after a couple years standing dead.


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## AIM (Jun 22, 2013)

My limited experience with red oak seems like a very wet wood. More so than many others.


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## Fifelaker (Jun 22, 2013)

I have had very wet standing and very dry standing and both in the same tree. The only way to know for sure is get it cut and split. I have found the wet and dead dries faster than green.


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## olyman (Jun 22, 2013)

back when I first started to burn wood, id cut trees out of the woods ex fil had..lots of diff species......there was one standing oak,that had been girdeld by his fil 40 yrs previous...fred was still alive,,and said what year he girdeld it..............the outer 4 inches of the tree had rotted off,,and was still rotting......I cut it down,,and it was STILL full of moisture,,all the way to the top that was left...cut,split,stack,,and it was dry by fall..................your mileage may vary


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## Festus (Jun 22, 2013)

I've had a couple red oak that the wind blew over, and they were still wet 6 to 8 years after they fell. They were green when they fell. The only reason they laid around that long was because I didn't start burning wood until last winter. I did find one oak that was standing dead, all the bark was gone and it had splits running from the outside to the center all the way up the trunk. This one burned OK, but it would have been better if it had a summer to dry after being split. I just had another one blow over less than two months ago. Trunk is close to 3ft in diameter. It should be fun since it fell perfectly over a big patch of pickers. It broke off at the base of the trunk, but I looked at it a week ago, and it was all leaved out. It is on the bank of a creek, so you can bet its got plenty of moisture in it. Its also on the wrong side of the creek, so that will make it even more fun.


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## Slade McCuiston (Jun 22, 2013)

I cut down a standing pine that had been dead for years at my granddad's farm. It looked like it was seasoned, but as soon as I started bucking it, the chunks hitting my arms felt wet. Sure enough, when I hit it with the Fiskars, you could see water bubble up around the bit. Standing dead wood will still need to season - maybe not for quite as long - but it still needs to season.


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## sb47 (Jun 22, 2013)

I have found that standing dead wood tends to have lots of rotten or punk wood in it. Witch is fine for outdoor burning but it doesn’t make good firewood. It burns too fast.
You won’t know till you get a saw into the wood to see if it’s any good or not.
Sometimes it holds up but for some reason the fungus tends to get into standing dead wood long before it does green cut wood.
Even cut rounds will sour if you don’t split it fairly soon but I would guess it all depends on the climate.
I cut and use/sell lots of red oak. It’s good stuff.


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## Axe Man (Jun 22, 2013)

A few years ago I got access to about 20 standing dead red oak. All had been dead long enough for the bark to fall off and the outside bone dry to the touch. While bucking it ( no punky spots ) I noticed it seemed wet and when splitting with an axe I was getting splashed in the face..........2 years later it was good for burning.


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## Preston (Jun 23, 2013)

Same here. I've used the limb's right away. But the trunk I had to treat just like a green tree. That thing holds lotsa water. I don't know about up there, but here they seem to attract a lot of termites. But the chickens love those little critters.


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## Jere39 (Jun 24, 2013)

I love standing dead Red Oak. Pretty much all I cut. I cut a couple dozen trees a year. I love the straight grain for splitting but It looks and feels wet when I split it.








My experience with it is that it holds moisture for years. Most of what I cut reads 32% on my MM at first split.






But, three months later, with a fresh split to expose the grain again, it is close to 20%. 








And six months it is in the teens. YMMV. 



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## sb47 (Jun 24, 2013)

I’m sure climate has everything to do with how long it takes to season. Down here if stacked in the open with lots of sun and air, I can get split red oak to season in 5-6 months. But that’s only if I stack in cords. 
I have another area up against a wood fence and under lots of trees and shade and it takes about 8-9 months to cure.
I was just out splitting some red oak today that was cut into rounds about 3 months ago.
The steam from the moisture was very evident as the temps today were in the high 90’s.
The sun had already cooked most of the moisture out by now but it was still wet.
The wood I store out in the open in rows with only a sheet of plywood on the top cures faster and keeps longer then the wood I store in the shade.
Most of the moisture wicks out the end grain, so if it’s not cut in rounds and left in log form, it will take longer for them to dry.


One thing I have noticed is with standing dead wood, is if the leaves fall off rite away the wood seems to last longer. If the tree dies and the leaves stay on for a long time, the fungus and rot get in faster.
For some reason, some wood just decays faster then others.


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## olyman (Jun 25, 2013)

One thing I have noticed is with standing dead wood, is if the leaves fall off rite away the wood seems to last longer. If the tree dies and the leaves stay on for a long time, the fungus and rot get in faster.
For some reason, some wood just decays faster then others.[/QUOTE]

along that line,,ive noticed,,in the years ive been burning, that years ago,,a tree could stand dead, for a long time,,and just slowly rot on the outside, and the inside would stay good.......not no more!!! ive seen ash and oak trees,,that have died,,and if they weren't cut and stacked within a year,,they would be rotten both inside and out!!!:msp_ohmy: who knows why???


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## steved (Jun 26, 2013)

Like the others, it depends on the wood. When I cut trees, they are only dead standing, and while pine might be dry, maple might be dry, but the oak next to it will be wet. And it doesn't seem to matter which oak it is...white, black, red; they all hold water... 

Even the grapple pile I have, all of it has been dead/cut a while (bark falling off), the maple could be burnt now but the red oak is wet.


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## rmihalek (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys. I got three of the trees down, but nothing split yet (too freakin' hot!).

The tops are all bone dry but once I got into the 5-6" diameter range, then the inside was clearly wet (and stinky...that typical red oak aroma). 

So, I'll probably get more than a cord from all the stuff under 5". I could burn that this fall/winter. But, the rest needs to be stacked and dried for the 2014/2015 season.

I'm going through some chains on this stuff, too. Maybe every third/fourth tank of fuel, I'll swap in a new chain.


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## steved (Jun 26, 2013)

rmihalek said:


> So, I'll probably get more than a cord from all the stuff under 5". I could burn that this fall/winter. But, the rest needs to be stacked and dried for the 2014/2015 season.
> 
> I'm going through some chains on this stuff, too. Maybe every third/fourth tank of fuel, I'll swap in a new chain.



You will be surprised how quick it dries out...its water, not sap. Cut and split, it should be ready this winter.

I found the oak dulls generic chain, but as loong as I don't find a nail or rock; my Stihl chain seems to do alright.


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## haveawoody (Jun 26, 2013)

Northern red oak seems to be tough on chains for me.
Always seems to be a spot or two on them that had a small bit of decay or an old ant nest that has turned to dirt.


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## cheeves (Jun 26, 2013)

Most of the firewood I cut is dead standing oak! This place is loaded with it!! Sandy soil with a few huge fores fires in the past has attributed to it! I've cut dead standing oak, come home thrown it in the Tempwood, and burned it. This mostly small dead standing oak doesn't hold much water. It has to have rained quite a bit and recently for this wood here to be really wet. Even after this record breaking wet Spring I cut a few loads of dead standing oak and it wasn't very wet. Burned some stuff the next night after one load!
This stuff here is really great firewood!! Feel very lucky to have it. It's fairly easy to cut and load and heats my whole house unless it's O or below! Heck I've had the furnace shut right off for about ten years burning this dead standing oak! Great stuff!!!


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## olyman (Jun 27, 2013)

cheeves said:


> Most of the firewood I cut is dead standing oak! This place is loaded with it!! Sandy soil with a few huge fores fires in the past has attributed to it! I've cut dead standing oak, come home thrown it in the Tempwood, and burned it. This mostly small dead standing oak doesn't hold much water. It has to have rained quite a bit and recently for this wood here to be really wet. Even after this record breaking wet Spring I cut a few loads of dead standing oak and it wasn't very wet. Burned some stuff the next night after one load!
> This stuff here is really great firewood!! Feel very lucky to have it. It's fairly easy to cut and load and heats my whole house unless it's O or below! Heck I've had the furnace shut right off for about ten years burning this dead standing oak! Great stuff!!!



sandy soil,,and HUGE FOREST FIRES,,changes the equation a LOT!!!!! not so much the soil,,but the fire!!! that was a huge furnace,,forcing the water out of the trees,,by boiling it out!! super heating the tree!!! like a LARGE kiln!!!


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## RPrice (Jun 27, 2013)

*Lodge Pole standing dead wood*

For a western perspective, I cut dead standing Lodgepole and Whitebark pine that was killed my MPB's (mountain pine beetles) two to three years ago. I was initially surprised how wet much of this wood is as I split it. For this reason I've been cutting, splitting and stacking early this year to assure this wood has plenty of time to completely dry, under cover. 

My winter wood supply is currently "in", and everything else I cut will be contributing to next years supply. Here's a pic to show part of my "stash". I've actually added about a cord more to this since the photo was taken. The stacks are just over 6' high.


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## Johnny Yooper (Jun 27, 2013)

standing dead red oak....does it need to be seasoned? Absolutely. Here's a couple of personal experiences on this topic: 13 years ago my dad came down for a weekend to help cut some trees to clear an area where we were going to build our house; we cut various species (maple, ash, red oak, basswood, etc.) Since we planned on having a free standing stove in our living room, one piece of advice he gave was "season the red oak twice as long as the other hardwoods". For thirty years I helped him cut firewood on his land up north which is void of red oak so I asked him why he would say that; he simply replied that red oak takes longer to dry, and if you rush it you'll increase the likelihood of a chimney fire. About five years later, I had to cut a red oak that was leaning towards some apple trees I planted; a friend who is a forester informed me it's ok to cut the tree but because there are other red oaks in the area and due to the time of year, as soon as it's cut I should move it away from the woods out to our large field to minimize chance of oak wilt; so I dragged the tree a couple hundred yards out into the field and left it. One year later, I cut and split it for firewood and stacked it, all great wood, nothing punky; I cut it small....approx. 15 inch lengths, and split anything over 3 or 4 inch diameter so the pieces would fit in our stove. It then sat in a shed for one more year before I burned it......and I remember the first fire I made with these pieces....I'd mixed these in with some pieces of ash, ironwood, maple, popple, whatever was in the shed, and since I load the stove from a side door, I could see the ends of the pieces and I noticed something very interesting: the only pieces that spewed moisture from the ends while burning were the red oak...all the others were what you'd expect for dry firewood...just a good clean burn....I sat there and watched those oak pieces drip moisture two years after being cut off the stump and I instantly recalled my dad's words. Funny thing: the older I get, the smarter my dad is


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## RPrice (Jun 27, 2013)

Johnny Yooper said:


> standing dead red oak....does it need to be seasoned? Absolutely. Here's a couple of personal experiences on this topic: 13 years ago my dad came down for a weekend to help cut some trees to clear an area where we were going to build our house; we cut various species (maple, ash, red oak, basswood, etc.) Since we planned on having a free standing stove in our living room, one piece of advice he gave was "season the red oak twice as long as the other hardwoods". For thirty years I helped him cut firewood on his land up north which is void of red oak so I asked him why he would say that; he simply replied that red oak takes longer to dry, and if you rush it you'll increase the likelihood of a chimney fire. About five years later, I had to cut a red oak that was leaning towards some apple trees I planted; a friend who is a forester informed me it's ok to cut the tree but because there are other red oaks in the area and due to the time of year, as soon as it's cut I should move it away from the woods out to our large field to minimize chance of oak wilt; so I dragged the tree a couple hundred yards out into the field and left it. One year later, I cut and split it for firewood and stacked it, all great wood, nothing punky; I cut it small....approx. 15 inch lengths, and split anything over 3 or 4 inch diameter so the pieces would fit in our stove. It then sat in a shed for one more year before I burned it......and I remember the first fire I made with these pieces....I'd mixed these in with some pieces of ash, ironwood, maple, popple, whatever was in the shed, and since I load the stove from a side door, I could see the ends of the pieces and I noticed something very interesting: the only pieces that spewed moisture from the ends while burning were the red oak...all the others were what you'd expect for dry firewood...just a good clean burn....I sat there and watched those oak pieces drip moisture two years after being cut off the stump and I instantly recalled my dad's words. Funny thing: the older I get, the smarter my dad is



+1, very good post, thanks!


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## sunfish (Jun 28, 2013)

I cut a lot of standing dead Red White and Black oak. Red & Black will be hissing steam in the stove after being stacked in the dry for 2 years. White Oak will not do this (in my stove)...


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## rmihalek (Jun 29, 2013)

Just dropped a sugar maple that was mixed in with the red oaks. I bucked it into stove length pieces and when I went to load it into the wheel barrow I was amazed at how light the maple was compared to the oak. 

Interestingly, the maple was even semi-alive: the top of the tree had a few branches with leaves, and there were some little sprouts coming off the main stem that had leaves,but the main stem of the tree was dead, with bark flaking off all around it. I love the smell of maple! If I could never cut red oak again...


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## sunfish (Jun 29, 2013)

I love the smell of Red Oak, but would much rather burn White Oak! :msp_smile:


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