# Felling Sweetgum Vid



## Engineeringnerd (Nov 11, 2008)

I had to drop a double trunk sweetgum in my own backyard, so decided to drag out the cameras and capture the job:

http://vimeo.com/2209330 *( PASSWORD = "chainsaw" )*

I didn't have any trees to use as a block to pull the tree over in a conventional manner, so I had to get creative with the rigging.


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## toddstreeservic (Nov 11, 2008)

nice video, thanks for sharing it. One thing I would suggest is to look up more. Watch the top of the tree to see what it is doing. I was going to suggest getting a bigger hammer for the wedges but you figured that out quick! That camera man at the end was in a dangerous location. Excellent video!


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## Engineeringnerd (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks Todd. I do need to look up more, I've just always been paranoid of kickback. Thanks for pointing it out.

I carry a 3lb mallet in my belt for setting the wedges and getting out of pinches and then use and axe or sledge to drive them in, if needed.


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## Engineeringnerd (Nov 12, 2008)

Some of you experienced slow downloads. Here's a lower quality, but faster version of the video:

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=20081108CuttingSweetgum512wmv165Mac.flv


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## masiman (Nov 12, 2008)

Nice vid! Good use of multiple cameras.


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## Engineeringnerd (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks. Running three cameras and a chainsaw at the same time was quite a task. My son came out and ran one of the 3 at the very end (you can just see him at the end of the video).


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## Ironbark (Nov 12, 2008)

Suberb video. Thanks for sharing.


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## nicholasthorn (Nov 12, 2008)

*health & saftey*

hello you need to get your felling cut notch more level on botton cut to prevent the tree spinning off in wrong direction & when first trunk cut down remove to ground level to give second trunk a clear entry for dropping seen quite a few nasty accidents doing this
nicholas 
nt trees uk 
utility arboculture
contractors
ms280 20-1n
ms660 36-in
ms460 25-in
shindaiwa 265-t 12-in
shindaiwa 357-t 16-in
makita -7900 25-in


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## Engineeringnerd (Nov 12, 2008)

All input is welcome.


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## rmh3481 (Nov 18, 2008)

Good job and and professional video. 
Best wishes,
Bob
PS, I agree watch the Blueberries!


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## Engineeringnerd (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks Bob. If I crush the blueberries, no more saws for me! Therefore, I watch the blueberries very closely!


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## techdave (Dec 24, 2008)

*Hi Roger, some observations*

Zero-th off, EPIC vid quality, super nerd points for that!!

First off, good job, pretty good saw handling for a homeowner.

In regards to what others said: I would like to reinforce the importance of looking up, and keeping all horiziontal cuts level, and cutting the first tree shorter or off all the way before doing the second tree.

From me: As one who trains homeowners and landscapers and trail workers to saw safer and better, many of them find it easier to saw the sloped part of the face first, and meet it with a horizontal line. Just aim the top cut of the face with the saw horizontal using the felling sight, and then incline the saw to the proper angle and cut the top first. The do the horizonatl next.
If its a critical situation and accuracy is essential, then consider starting the second cut of the face from each corner first, then finishing off the main part of the cut, as this ensures the corners meet and the face cuts dont cross or leave a dutchman. 

Good idea to secure the tree against going over backwards! Please remember that hinge must stay intact and the rope/attachments must be pretty stong to GUARANTEE that by tieing it off the tree CAN ONLY go over the way you want it to.

Good job cleaning the joint of the face! Do it every time and avoid nasty surprises. Perhaps the hinges are too thin??, remember the hinge thickness is a good defense against breakage and disaster if a wind gust causes the tree to settle back. 

maybe start both wedges at the same time, and alternate, to keep the load spread across the hinge. When you pound one side hard you are puttng undesireable asymetric loading on the hinge both vertically and horizintally.
In a tree in this size range if you dont get a little movement of the top with each swing after a few solid hits to start each wedge, PAUSE and recheck your assumptions and techniques! for example:
Is there more wind against the fall than you think? Is the lean more than you thought it was? Did you cut the face too deep, leaving too little backcut area for lifting towards the front? Is the wood so soft it is compressing instead of lifting the center of mass? ETC

All in all a GREAT job for a homeowner, just try not to over-generalize and do some of the things cautioned against another time in another tree just cuz it worked so well here. 

ps-Good job of not getting your body in line with the bar.


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## Ekka (Dec 26, 2008)

Nice video work.

I would have felled them both together at the same time, wham bam thankyou maam, done and dusted in one hit.  The forward weight of the first lead you felled would have helped the second lead go over, still roping the rear lead for safety.

Front leader bore cut trigger release after back leader backcut completed. Back leader cannot fall forward with front lead in place.  

Cut trigger and over they both go. Now that would have been an interesting video. opcorn:


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## Rftreeman (Dec 27, 2008)

as the others, nice video, it sure beats the heck out of the youtube "expertvillage" guy


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## Ekka (Dec 29, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> as the others, nice video, it sure beats the heck out of the youtube "expertvillage" guy



LOL, Expert Village IDIOT perhaps. :deadhorse:


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## Engineeringnerd (Dec 30, 2008)

Ekka,

Thanks for the encouragement. I've enjoyed many a video of yours. 

I don't climb, so I'm not sure how I would have tied the two together, but I'm sure it would have been a better show. I'm not sure my blueberry bushes would have fared as well, however.  Please copy me when you video your attempt with a narrow corridor! Maybe this vid of an actual living trees will compensate for my lack of daring on this particular job: 

http://vimeo.com/2108010 (if it plays jerky, just press "pause" and let it load, then press "play")


TechDave,

Thanks for the info, hard to argue any of it. I'm still a little paranoid looking up with a running saw, seems dangerous with a chain screaming at 14,000. I guess getting conked on the head isn't too great either! It's really interesting to video your work and then critique yourself. You aren't always aware of all of your actions during the work, but you see it clearly later.


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## Ekka (Dec 31, 2008)

engineeringnerd said:


> I don't climb, so I'm not sure how I would have tied the two together, but I'm sure it would have been a better show. I'm not sure my blueberry bushes would have fared as well, however.



As per my previous post, you dont tie the two together, just rope the rear leader using a throw bag ... haul a pull line up.

As far as the blueberry bushes go, well, you dropped one leader straight onto the other, so result likely the same, perhaps better as they come over together any twisting should be reduced.

The probability of "sweetgum" breaking the brick stair is quite low, the bush by the brick stairs has been whacked before and as it goes into winter you might repollard anyway ... only brush would have hit it (again worst case scenario).


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## Engineeringnerd (Dec 31, 2008)

Ekka, 

Thanks for clarification. I may try that one in a low risk environment to see how it plays out. I'm not at the place where shaving 15 minutes off the job is hugely important as I'm sure it is with running a business.

Its all just physics, isn't it?


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## Ekka (Dec 31, 2008)

Yes it is, and good engineers make the job easier as they see the forces and angles well.

You stuck a rope in the rear leader anyway, so you were capable of doing that.

The hardest thing to have done would have been notching the rear leader without being able to stand in front to see the notch lines up well, however I can tell by the way you cut those notches that you pretty much get them bang on anyway.

We get lots of intermingled, tangled or multi-leadered trees here. Over the years I have become more accustomed to notching the swag of them up and dropping the whole lot together. Often if you wanted to fell them out individually you'd have to climb up and clear branches etc.

Really, it's not that bad or hard at all, and I think you certainly got what it takes to do it. In my day, that was like a footy field to work with, forgiving too, so I would have definately done it that way ... not that your ways was wrong or anything.

Remember a while back some guy posted about a side leaning tree and all these opinions came out bla bla bla. In the end the guy whacked it just like I said and pissed it in. To grow in confidence and skills means rising to a new challenge, that was a golden opportunity really for a new challenge.

Now you'll look at things differently, working with a bunch of different people over years has given me the ability to see things I would normally have missed ... now I look for them.

The harder things these days is finding the time to video.


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## Engineeringnerd (Dec 31, 2008)

For me the harder thing is I'm running out of trees to cut down! I have plenty of time to video!

Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to seeing a copy of Baraneck's video series that was just released. The vids on Bailey's site look very promising.


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## Ax-man (Jan 1, 2009)

First, excellent vid and a good job done.

Second, Why all this focus and emphasis on looking up at the top of the tree???

Watching the cut tells you what you need to know about what the tree is going to do. Looking up isn't going to change anything as to what direction or how the tree is going to fall. 

Just don't see how looking up can be all that helpful. The tree is going to commit to the fall or it isn't. 


Again, congrats on a good vid and demo on tree falling. I think you did the right thing by watching that saw instead of looking up. 

Larry


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## geofore (Jan 16, 2009)

*look up?*

If you haven't had the experience yet the first time a limb comes out to tap you on the head you'll know the reason to look up. It's the widow maker you are looking for as you cut. Any small movement at the cut is amplfied as it travels up the tree and becomes a big move at the top shaking anything it can loose. An inch of movement at the base can be feet of movement at the top of the tree.
I was cutting a nearly dead ash on a slope and with a rope up in the top I did my cuts and stepped away to let the guys pull it over. The top spar broke loose and 30' came to the ground spiking the foot print I left at the base of the tree. Look up! You never know when the tree is going to bite back.


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## Engineeringnerd (Jan 16, 2009)

Is this a good example of why to look up? (@ 0:22 time remaining in clip):

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=f10000z080329CuttingMsEmilystree3Mb.flv


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## forestryworks (Jan 16, 2009)

Ax-man said:


> First, excellent vid and a good job done.
> 
> Second, Why all this focus and emphasis on looking up at the top of the tree???
> 
> ...



if you don't look up how do you know what's falling out of the top and onto you?

lookin' up puts your body in a less targetable profile for widowmakers and slabs of bark

bending over at the waist the whole time and never looking up makes you a pretty easy target... you'll never know what hit you!


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## Ax-man (Jan 16, 2009)

I think you guys kind of misunderstood me. I didn't say you shouldn't look up as there are times when you need to. If there are no hazards or red flags up in the crown then the need to look up isn't really needed. Maybe I am reading the thread wrong as there seems to be too much emphasis being put on this looking up while cutting instead of watching the saw. I myself would rather be looking at what the saw is doing than what the top of a tree is doing. 


I have had more fall out come at me from rigging out a tree for removal than than having anything fall out of the crown while cutting at the bottom. If there is a chance of that happening I do look up but as soon as I see that kerf opening I am already heading for my escape route lickity split. 

Larry


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## treemandan (Jan 18, 2009)

engineeringnerd said:


> Thanks Todd. I do need to look up more, I've just always been paranoid of kickback. Thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> I carry a 3lb mallet in my belt for setting the wedges and getting out of pinches and then use and axe or sledge to drive them in, if needed.



I would be a little worried too if I was holding it that way. I think its ok to start a cut holding onto the side but once you get into it you should have your hand up by the brake.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 18, 2009)

Ax-man said:


> I think you guys kind of misunderstood me. I didn't say you shouldn't look up as there are times when you need to. If there are no hazards or red flags up in the crown then the need to look up isn't really needed. Maybe I am reading the thread wrong as there seems to be too much emphasis being put on this looking up while cutting instead of watching the saw. I myself would rather be looking at what the saw is doing than what the top of a tree is doing.
> 
> 
> I have had more fall out come at me from rigging out a tree for removal than than having anything fall out of the crown while cutting at the bottom. If there is a chance of that happening I do look up but as soon as I see that kerf opening I am already heading for my escape route lickity split.
> ...



I agree, that's how I do it 90% of the time too. The second it moves I am gone and looking up, if I stay with it I am looking up to direct it and watch for widowmakers. If the tree isn't moving and I didn't see any hazards while inspecting, I watch the saw and kerf.

Felling trees where you can't see all of the top would be the other 10%, looking all the time.


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