# Will this kill me



## gkstudios (Feb 8, 2012)

Hello,

I know this subject has been covered many times in these forums but I am specifically interested in the actual rope I used. Here are my concerns:

The role it came off of said 100% nylon; 5/8"; 9,500lbs tensil strength; 950 Working Load.

1. Is all nylon the same. I mean I couldn't find anything on the role stating whether this rope is specified for climbing or not. I purchased two climbing lanyards several months ago and as far as I can tell that rope and the one pictured below is identical. 

2. If this nylon is not good for climbing, where can i get purchase some without having to buy a 100ft at a time. There is a whole bunch of nylon on Ebay but it mainly says its for marine use. 

note:I know the splices aren't exactly perfect but this was my first time :msp_smile:

View attachment 222586


View attachment 222587


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## Carburetorless (Feb 8, 2012)

gkstudios said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know this subject has been covered many times in these forums but I am specifically interested in the actual rope I used. Here are my concerns:
> 
> ...



All ropes aren't the same.

Most arborist ropes are made of polyester, some are a blend of polyester/nylon, and some other materials.

Polyester has less stretch than nylon. Nylon is used for rock climbing where you need to absorb the shock of a fall. When rock climbing you climb the rock it's self, the rope is there as a safety net to catch you if you fall or to assist you up and over difficult pitches more so than for the actual climbing.

If you use a rock climbing rope to access a tree it'll be like climbing a bungee cord, you'll bounce up and down, and it'll wear you out.

Polyester has a higher melting point than nylon.

Polyester retains it's strength when wet whereas nylon weakens a bit.

Polyester is less affected by UV rays than nylon.

Polyester is less affected by cold than nylon.

I'd go with polyester.

Here's a link to help you identify what you have How To Identify Rope


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## gkstudios (Feb 8, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> All ropes aren't the same.
> 
> Here's a link to help you identify what you have How To Identify Rope



Hey thanks for the reply. After reading the article I found something interesting regarding nylon(which is the rope I am using). It states that there are two main types of nylon used in making ropes, 6 and 6.6, the only key difference between the two is the melting point. 

So if i understand this correctly as long as it is 100% nylon then there is no difference between arborist and marine nylon. Is this correct. ??


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## gkstudios (Feb 8, 2012)

*Thanks*



Carburetorless said:


> All ropes aren't the same.
> 
> 
> Here's a link to help you identify what you have How To Identify Rope



Hmmm i tried replying but it didnt get posted . . .

Anyway thanks for the reply Carburetorless. I read the article and found something interesting in the section where it talks about nylon. It states that there are basically two types of nylon used on rope making, 6 and 6.6, the key difference between these two is the melting point. 

So if i understand this correctly, as long as the rope is 100% nylon there is really no difference between the strength "arborist" nylon and "marine" nylon?? Can anyone shed some light on this please.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 8, 2012)

Why wouldnt you just use a 16 strand rope for a friction saver instead of that 3 strand nylon? If you can splice that, you can splice 16 stand or double braid.


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## mic687 (Feb 8, 2012)

gkstudios said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know this subject has been covered many times in these forums but I am specifically interested in the actual rope I used. Here are my concerns:
> 
> ...



Wespur who has an ad on this site sells all different lengths of rope on their site and alot in there clerance rope section (side bar of their home page) of lengths to short for climbing ropes.


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## hunthawkdog (Feb 8, 2012)

*will it kiil you*

i sure wouldnt dangel from a rope i had to ask about. i have climbed on some junk string when i was poor but hey i bounce good . if ya fall real far grab grass its the bounce that kills ya.

call nice guy dave at wes spur hell help you figure out the cheapest way you can get a hank and not die.

look at it this way tou only getta die once if ya aint tried how do ya know ya dont like it


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## Iustinian (Feb 8, 2012)

lets not leave out aramids like technora.


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## newsawtooth (Feb 8, 2012)

gkstudios said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know this subject has been covered many times in these forums but I am specifically interested in the actual rope I used. Here are my concerns:
> 
> ...



Probably not wise to use unrated non CE certified ropes from Ebay for life safety. Where did you get the rings? Are they rated for life safety? Rope regardless of what it is made of is not ideal for friction savers as well. Doesn't take much to cut the rope and your tie in point. A more durable material is preferred.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 8, 2012)

gkstudios said:


> Hey thanks for the reply. After reading the article I found something interesting regarding nylon(which is the rope I am using). It states that there are two main types of nylon used in making ropes, 6 and 6.6, the only key difference between the two is the melting point.



You'd have to look at the product sheets to determine if there were any major differences. When it comes to synthetics, you can have two separate products that are made from the same basic materials yet have vastly different characteristics depending on the processes used to make them. 



> So if i understand this correctly as long as it is 100% nylon then there is no difference between arborist and marine nylon. Is this correct. ??



I'd contact the manufacturer before making any assumptions about their products.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 8, 2012)

gkstudios said:


> If this nylon is not good for climbing, where can i get purchase some without having to buy a 100ft at a time. There is a whole bunch of nylon on Ebay but it mainly says its for marine use.



I think Sherrilltree sells arborist rope by the foot. Well maybe not.

Try Wesspur or TreeStuff.

If you're looking for arborist climbing rope get something that is low stretch like polyester.


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## Iustinian (Feb 8, 2012)

newsawtooth said:


> Probably not wise to use unrated non CE certified ropes from Ebay for life safety. Where did you get the rings? Are they rated for life safety? Rope regardless of what it is made of is not ideal for friction savers as well. Doesn't take much to cut the rope and your tie in point. A more durable material is preferred.



I agree about ebay ropes. Buying a used rope -- you don't know the rope's history, and especially if you can't identify the rope and know practically nothing about that particular peice of rope -- you won't be able to accurately predict the cycles to failure etc. 

I have bought a couple great ropes from e-bay, although I knew they were new, and I knew exactly what product I was buying. My footlocking rope is a Sterling HTP Black, identical to Snakebite, same company, same product, just all black and 1/3 the price that purchase. Also bought a static Bluewater 10.4mm on ebay that I use for srt which is REALLY lightweight and a very fast rope, saved a bundle on it.

IMO you should probably not buy most Petzl gear on ebay at this point bc there are some chinese knockoffs that are not properly rated. They look identical to the Petzl products, even down to the packaging. They recommend purchasing only from a reputable Petzl dealer because some of the Ascension handled ascenders Attache biner, Croll Ascender and Rescue pulleys have been counterfeited. here is a link to the "decision tree" "Is my Petzl product authentic?" http://www.petzl.com/files/fckfiles/file/info-generale/petzl-product-authentification.pdf

Rings are another topic...anyone remember the recall on the kong rings used on the friction savers? For those that don't: several injuries including fatalities resulted from the fact that Kong outsourced production of the rings used in the friction saver. The rings were not batch tested nor laser etched indicating the same, thus not rated for climbing. Recall was issued and Tobe Sherill did refunds on them, including offering a refund/credit to people that didn't even purchase theirs from Sherill Tree. So be just as careful about purchasing/using rings as you should be with rope. 

I disagree about using ropes for friction savers; provided that you are using a branch large enough to create the proper bend ratio on the rope used to create the friction saver, I dont see them as a problem. You shouldn't rely on the friction saver to be cut resistant especially since you should be using two points of attachment when operating a chainsaw. I've actually found that friction savers made from rope are much easier to install/de-install, and also can be used for creating a "system on a system", DRT on a static footlocking rope, etc (I have pics if you haven't seen it). The rope friction savers are much more versatile and can be used in many other ways -- money better spent IMO. Check out DMM's Secret Weapon on treestuff.com. I really like mine.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 9, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> I disagree about using ropes for friction savers; provided that you are using a branch large enough to create the proper bend ratio on the rope used to create the friction saver, I dont see them as a problem.



I don't like them, because of the rings, not so much the rings themselves, but rather the sharp angle the climbing line gets bent at when it passes across the ring and back down, it's 90 degrees and on a very small radius, which basically reduces the WLL of the climbing line by at least 50%.


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## Iustinian (Feb 9, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I don't like them, because of the rings, not so much the rings themselves, but rather the sharp angle the climbing line gets bent at when it passes across the ring and back down, it's 90 degrees and on a very small radius, which basically reduces the WLL of the climbing line by at least 50%.



Very true. There have been some guys making them and replacing one of the rings with a pulley, which is an improvement IMO. The DMM Pinto pulleys are great for that; because of the rounded edges on the plates and beckets, you can attach rope directly to them instead of using carabiners. You just have to use a spacer which they sell so that the plates dont get pinched when its loaded. 

Or you could avoid that problem altogether by using srt :msp_biggrin:


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## Carburetorless (Feb 9, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> Very true. There have been some guys making them and replacing one of the rings with a pulley, which is an improvement IMO. The DMM Pinto pulleys are great for that; because of the rounded edges on the plates and beckets, you can attach rope directly to them instead of using carabiners. You just have to use a spacer which they sell so that the plates dont get pinched when its loaded.
> 
> Or you could avoid that problem altogether by using srt :msp_biggrin:



Even with SRT you want to protect the branch from rope burn. The leather over-the-limb type savers are better all around with a larger radios than even a pulley, and there's no rope contacting the branch.


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## Iustinian (Feb 9, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Even with SRT you want to protect the branch from rope burn. The leather over-the-limb type savers are better all around with a larger radios than even a pulley, and there's no rope contacting the branch.



they have a new PVC version (called a caterpillar) that I think I would like better if were going to use that style. I've never used the leather cambium savers, but I imagine it would not remove as much friction from the system as would a fs, but the pvc version probably would. 

Caterpillar Friction Savers, 1/2" : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment


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## Carburetorless (Feb 9, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> they have a new PVC version (called a caterpillar) that I think I would like better if were going to use that style. I've never used the leather cambium savers, but I imagine it would not remove as much friction from the system as would a fs, but the pvc version probably would.
> 
> Caterpillar Friction Savers, 1/2" : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment



I've seen some guys use flexible conduit as a cambium, and I always thought it'd be a good way to go if there was some sort of sleeve and graumit used to protect the line from sharp edges.

Those caterpillars seem to be just the thing.


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## newsawtooth (Feb 9, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> Rings are another topic...anyone remember the recall on the kong rings used on the friction savers? For those that don't: several injuries including fatalities resulted from the fact that Kong outsourced production of the rings used in the friction saver. The rings were not batch tested nor laser etched indicating the same, thus not rated for climbing. Recall was issued and Tobe Sherill did refunds on them, including offering a refund/credit to people that didn't even purchase theirs from Sherill Tree. So be just as careful about purchasing/using rings as you should be with rope.



That's what I was implying.



Iustinian said:


> I disagree about using ropes for friction savers; provided that you are using a branch large enough to create the proper bend ratio on the rope used to create the friction saver, I dont see them as a problem. You shouldn't rely on the friction saver to be cut resistant especially since you should be using two points of attachment when operating a chainsaw. I've actually found that friction savers made from rope are much easier to install/de-install, and also can be used for creating a "system on a system", DRT on a static footlocking rope, etc (I have pics if you haven't seen it). The rope friction savers are much more versatile and can be used in many other ways -- money better spent IMO. Check out DMM's Secret Weapon on treestuff.com. I really like mine.



Good points. I looked at the secret weapon, seems like a good idea. Sort of the same as a remote tie in point which I use occasionally for DRT, but the weapon might be better. I prefer the thick buckingham friction savers not so much because they are cut resistant but more resistant to abrasion. When in use they are isolated on a limb with pressure and abrasion on the same spot repetitively. The beefy ones just seem to last longer and make me more comfortable.


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## sawinredneck (Feb 9, 2012)

For the OP, get with Sheril tree, Tree stuff, Baileys, whoever and order a 120' hank of Arborplex 1/2". It will cost about $70, it's a little slick but cheap, safe and makes a great bull rope if you decide to keep at it and upgrade in the future!


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## Ax-man (Feb 11, 2012)

You are getting some good replies here but personally and this is just my opinion and mine alone. I wouldn't climb on that myself. The rings are too small too me and that rope has a sheen to it that doesn't look like regular 3 strand rope. It looks like a rope that was bought at the hardware store . Maybe the camera is playing tricks or maybe because it is all nylon and I haven't seen or even used an all nylon rope. Nylon is tough stuff but doesn't hold up well to rough surfaces like the bark of a tree and it does stretch quite a bit.

Your splicing looks good. No worries there. You will probaly be ok just to try it out a few times and see how well it holds up but that is as far as I would go with it. At least you got baptised into splicing and how to make a friction saver which will serve as good experience for the next one.


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## lone wolf (Feb 11, 2012)

gkstudios said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know this subject has been covered many times in these forums but I am specifically interested in the actual rope I used. Here are my concerns:
> 
> ...



Will it kill you the answer is maybe!


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## Poleman (Feb 12, 2012)

I would have to agree with Ax-Man, your splicing look good but as he said the rope has a sheen and I would be VERY concerned if it was really soft anp plyable. That would be an indicator its a 3 srand for marine or farm type use(halters, lead rope etc) and surly not intended to be used as you intend. Granted it will probably work but there are so much better rope choices out there. 

My first choice would be 5/8 th or 9/16th double braid(rope in a rope) and only one ring in each side with a ring spliced into( or an eye to eye texex prusik with carabiner) a tenex prusik. This would be for adjustability and a better fit for each application/tree.

Your rings look like they are certified and thats GOOD. There is a lot of junk out there not rated for what you intend. The example is of the Kong ring that failed. Also my Weaver Cougar saddle was recalled because of faulty/uncertified rings. Make sure they have a CE rating or some sort of ID etching as being approved and rated.

I would stay away from 16 strand rope because of the way it splices and for what your intended use is for. You could use a 1/2in double braid if you want a 1/2 in friction saver. It would be lighter and slightly down graded from working load limits.

I have several of different sizes for differant applications, with similar slings(woopie and loopy) for use to rig in a tree. I just make sure they never ger mixed up. You never want to use a rigging device/sling or whatever as a climbing/life support device because of the loads and shockloads rigging devices are subject to. NEVER, NEVER,NEVER,NEVER.


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