# Bucking spikes - necessity?



## joecool85 (Nov 16, 2007)

I was wondering how you guys feel about bucking spikes or dogs, are they really that important? Just for big saws?

I really only have experience running little poulans (2375, 2250) and an electric saw, none of which had spikes. Nothing larger than an 18" bar, and no more than 42cc. I was fine without them, but I was wondering if they would make any difference.


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## Cut4fun (Nov 16, 2007)

I believe as a homeowner sawer a SHARP chain is more important. I pull the dawgs off all my saws, even when running the big bars and big saws. I let the chains work.


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## andrewspens (Nov 16, 2007)

*Uh oh*

Here we go, getting ready for another eastern US versus west coast fight. The saw manufacturers put the spikes on for a reason. Do you remove the front bumper from your car and let the brakes do their job? 

Everybody get ready, this will turn into another long thread once again dominated by us guys from the PNW.


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## heimannm (Nov 16, 2007)

They are also referred to as felling spikes, and they do come in handy when cutting the notch and back cut when felling. I can't imagine trying to muscle a 24" bar in the horizontal position when felling without the spikes.

I added the cheap stamped ones to my 2050 just to help protect the saw when banging into logs while cuting. I only cut firewood but sometimes at the end of the day I don't care to stop and change or sharpen a chain so the extra leverage does come in handy on the 621 or 036M. Not really necessary on the 2050 as it just does not have the omph to really make it go that hard.


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## joecool85 (Nov 16, 2007)

heimannm said:


> They are also referred to as felling spikes, and they do come in handy when cutting the notch and back cut when felling. I can't imagine trying to muscle a 24" bar in the horizontal position when felling without the spikes.
> 
> I added the cheap stamped ones to my 2050 just to help protect the saw when banging into logs while cuting. I only cut firewood but sometimes at the end of the day I don't care to stop and change or sharpen a chain so the extra leverage does come in handy on the 621 or 036M. Not really necessary on the 2050 as it just does not have the omph to really make it go that hard.



Yeah, those cheap poulan ones are $4 a piece, so I was thinking about adding them to the 2375 and craftsman project saw (2250).


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## Griffbm3 (Nov 16, 2007)

*Uh-Oh is right...*



andrewspens said:


> Here we go, getting ready for another eastern US versus west coast fight. The saw manufacturers put the spikes on for a reason. *Do you remove the front bumper from your car and let the brakes do their job?
> *
> Everybody get ready, this will turn into another long thread once again dominated by us guys from the PNW.



Yes. As a matter of fact, here on the East Coast we trust each other to stop so much that we don't wear our seatbelts and we disable our airbags. Must be an East Coast thing. As a side note, I never thought it would make a difference having double spikes, but it does. I agree though about the smaller saws, it actually encourages "overuse" on the clutch I think... But the bigger saws don't seem to have a problem. 

Jason (on the East coast)


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## OilHead (Nov 16, 2007)

If the chain grabs & slams the log into the front of the case & puts a hole in it then you might wish you had them on it. It also provides a certan amount of clearance for chip build up. Around here the 200T is the go to saw for a majority of the work performed they come with 1 small spike.


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## wood4heat (Nov 16, 2007)

Cut4fun said:


> I believe as a homeowner sawer a SHARP chain is more important. I pull the dawgs off all my saws, even when running the big bars and big saws. I let the chains work.



What purpose does pulling them off serve?


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## SawTroll (Nov 16, 2007)

I mostly remove them on my saws, to give the bar a little more effective cutting length.


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## Pablo26 (Nov 16, 2007)

wood4heat said:


> What purpose does pulling them off serve?



I think in racing applications you may loose a split sec by having to re-position the dawg? (just a guess)


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## Spotted Owl (Nov 16, 2007)

heimannm said:


> They are also referred to as felling spikes, and they do come in handy when cutting the notch and back cut when felling. I can't imagine trying to muscle a 24" bar in the horizontal position when felling without the spikes.



24" nothin try lettin a 50+ work all alone with no dogs/dawgs. Them teeth they put on the saws are there for a reason. Saftey is one that comes to mind. Can you imagine how whipped by the end of the day you would be with out them, if you even made it to the end of the day. How sloppy and poor would you habbits become if you were hammered after the first few trees of the day? Even bucking they save a tremendous amount of wear on your body. It may no seem like much but some leverage can do wonderous things. Also using them PROPERLY will save alot of wear on the saw aswell. 

Ever heard this one, give me a lever and I can move the world. Well give me appropriate sized dogs for the work and saw, and I can cut all day and so can the saw.

If you need bar length get a longer bar or bigger saw :greenchainsaw: .



Owl


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## joecool85 (Nov 16, 2007)

So, owl, would you say it matters on a 40cc saw?


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## GASoline71 (Nov 16, 2007)

Don't even bother with them if you don't know how to use them... seriously.

They will only cause you to learn bad habits.

Gary


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## Matildasmate (Nov 16, 2007)

*Saw spike's*

Yes Gentlemen I agree the saw spike's are there for a reason , mainly for felling , other than that , only other use is stop your saw bashing against the log and eventualy damaging the saw , on the small saw's that don't have them , they are not important , they are to guttless to do any real damage to the saw . Cheer's MM


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## SawTroll (Nov 16, 2007)

GASoline71 said:


> Don't even bother with them if you don't know how to use them... seriously.
> 
> They will only cause you to learn bad habits.
> 
> Gary



Right, again - ultimately I guess we don't quite agree - but I agree with that take on it....

..don't use dawgs, unless you know exactly why you use them.....


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## pgg (Nov 16, 2007)

The smaller saws, say 60cc or under, 18" bars or less, dogs aren't necessary at all. They come in handy on the bigger saws, the dogs support the extra weight and the bigger saws have the grunt for easy levering. The hassle with dogs they always eventually catch and rip your expensive chaps, specially your left thigh if right handed, and even worse on the right thigh if a lefty, they also tend to scratch, damage, puncture various pieces of equipment, containers, other chainsaws etc... on 70cc or under saws I always unbolt and ditch them


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## Austin1 (Nov 16, 2007)

I thought they were to make the saw look cool:greenchainsaw: 
There is a reason why smaller Jreds Come with both a bumper and Bucking spikes . Different needs for different folks.


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## Slamm (Nov 16, 2007)

I like the dogs, I never liked that my 361 just has the one on the left so I got that roller kit and now I have dogs on both sides. I use them when boring a tree, bucking one up and even when limbing larger limbs with 361, 660 and 084 sized saws.

I agree with the previous post, that if you need more bar length get a longer bar.

I know here in the midwest we don't need those really big dogs, but normal sized dogs are a real asset around here, in my opinion.

I guess, it is possible to cut wood without dogs on a saw and I'm sure it would work, to some degree, but then it is possible to cut wood without the automatic oiler and just drip oil from a can onto the chain, but why would you want to????

Dogs on a saw are an obvious asset, but if you are too dumb to know how to use them, when to use them or why to use them, you probably shouldn't be operating a chainsaw to begin with, LOL.

My opinion,

Sam


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## Dadatwins (Nov 16, 2007)

I can't imagine using a larger saw without the bucking spikes on it. Think they save a ton of work making the saw easier to set, pivot, ect. On a small saw, not that critical but still useful, on a medium to large saw I always use them. As for getting more bar length,  well never mind.


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 16, 2007)

Pulling them off for more effective bar length trees must be even smaller than I thought. PNW long bars big dawgs thats how we cut. To bad its all so confusing to the rest of the world.


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## ford832 (Nov 16, 2007)

I don't take them off mine-I just grind the teeth off.That way you have a measure of protection on the case-a little anyway.I find them to be a pain in the a$$ mostly.If you're bucking they catch on the log unless you hold it back and if your chain is sharp I've never felt the urge to have to lever it through.I always thought that was a dull chain trick.Around here the trees aren't big enough to require them imn the other hand,maybe my arms are less "girly" than some......
Oh,and I second Trolls longer effective length thing-it sucks to be just a little too short....


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## 04ultra (Nov 16, 2007)

This is why Troll takes off the spikes to make his bar look longer.....  





.


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 16, 2007)

04ultra said:


> This is why Troll takes off the spikes to make his bar look longer.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If he would use a bar longer than 15 inches, he could just leave the 
dogs on


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## Spotted Owl (Nov 16, 2007)

joecool85 said:


> So, owl, would you say it matters on a 40cc saw?



Speaking for me, Yes I have them on every saw I own all the way down to the little needle muncher. I would have them on the saw. Get some, try them and then tell us what you found. Use them smart, don't smoke your saw with to much leverage, the saw stihl has to do the work. A little goes a long way. If you have never used them before there will be a large difference.

Owl


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## GASoline71 (Nov 16, 2007)

Dang Steve... that saw looks really familiar...

...but it used to have a 36"er on it. 

Gary


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## 04ultra (Nov 16, 2007)

GASoline71 said:


> Dang Steve... that saw looks really familiar...
> 
> ...but it used to have a 36"er on it.
> 
> Gary






It still wears a 36" and 42" most of the time.....  




.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 16, 2007)

LOL... the 15"er must be for the bling factor...  

Gary


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## 04ultra (Nov 16, 2007)

GASoline71 said:


> LOL... the 15"er must be for the bling factor...
> 
> Gary






Yup with the 10 pin it sure is bling bling bling!!!  




.


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## Matildasmate (Nov 16, 2007)

If anyone has to used the saw dog's after they have dropped the tree , they need to learn how to sharpen there chain properly , when the chain is sharpened properly it is self feeding , meaning it is designed to drag itself into the wood and through the log , no extra pressure is required when the chain has been correctly sharpened and is sharp , if you need to put pressure on the chain , your chain is either blunt or not sharpened correctly . Cheer's MM


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## Cut4fun (Nov 16, 2007)

You had to read between the lines on my first post. I was trying to be nice to a guy asking about putting a dawg on a 36cc.

Guys what I was trying to get across to this homeowner sawer with a poulan 36cc was to just worry more about keeping a sharp chain on his saw then trying to use a dawg on a plastic cased 36cc saw with a dawg. 

I was just saying me as a homeowner user, have done alot of cutting where I dont use dawgs and that I thought a sharp chain was more important.

I use the dawgs when the needs arise, which isn't to often for this homeowner just cutting firewood and falling the occasional tree 24" and under. 

I mean what good is a dawg going to be on a 36cc? See why I said just keep a sharp chain. 
I hope I clarified my point this time and didnt confuse the issue for you pro's. 
*2250 dawg*


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## GASoline71 (Nov 16, 2007)

Don't know what you're apologizing for...

...that's why I said don't waste your time if you don't know how to use them.

Your answer was fine mang.  

Gary


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## Spotted Owl (Nov 16, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> If anyone has to used the saw dog's after they have dropped the tree , they need to learn how to sharpen there chain properly , when the chain is sharpened properly it is self feeding , meaning it is designed to drag itself into the wood and through the log , no extra pressure is required when the chain has been correctly sharpened and is sharp , if you need to put pressure on the chain , your chain is either blunt or not sharpened correctly . Cheer's MM



Never met a chain that will drag itself up hill second cut on a PNW face. Bucking perhaps, but not every time. Until you get almost a full bar width into the stump how do you get the chain to feed itself, seems you need a bit of pressure to keep it from bouncing off. Start let the chain pull the dogs in the ever so slightly lean on it until the bar is in deep enough to hold it's own weight while the chain works. Then adjust the dogs in the bark and let the chain and saw do the work. Also been in sap sticky enough to need gas in the oil to keep the chain moving enough to cut, again just a wee bit of push helps alot. Alot of pivot action needed in some of them sappy ole nasties and other times aswell, you aint gonna rock your saw with out them dogs or if'in you do you will be rocked by the end of the day. There are lots of instances were dogs are almost if not an absolute neccesity

I agree sharp chains are absolutly essential. However so are the saw dogs when used proper like.

Owl


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 16, 2007)

Cut4fun said:


> You had to read between the lines on my first post. I was trying to be nice to a guy asking about putting a dawg on a 36cc.
> 
> Guys what I was trying to get across to this homeowner sawer with a poulan 36cc was to just worry more about keeping a sharp chain on his saw then trying to use a dawg on a plastic cased 36cc saw with a dawg.
> 
> ...




Yes you make an excellent. Little saw with a casual owner dawgs probably not a significant issue on a small saw. Ya know this topic is always a pot stirrer.


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## palogger (Nov 16, 2007)

*felling spikes*

i know i personally will not own a saw without them, occasionally i will run my partners saw(it doesn't have dawgs) if i have left mine in the skidder or up the hill, but i know i couldn't run it all day without them, just cutting the butt or top off is hard enough


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## Spotted Owl (Nov 16, 2007)

Cut4fun said:


> You had to read between the lines on my first post. I was trying to be nice to a guy asking about putting a dawg on a 36cc.
> 
> Guys what I was trying to get across to this homeowner sawer with a poulan 36cc was to just worry more about keeping a sharp chain on his saw then trying to use a dawg on a plastic cased 36cc saw with a dawg.
> 
> ...



Makes total sense. However atleast having the dogs there to choose from, was all I was getting at. Some may not like them or use and that is there deal. I just think that telling a guy that seeminly doesn't know, he doesn't need or shouldn't use isn't good here. Even on the little dust maker dogs have come in handy a time or 2, mostly when my head was fully buried and not paying attention though. Dogs are just part of the way it is for me, by way of raising and habit forming, I use them dang near if not every time a saw is in my hands. If for nothing else than weight holding, balance, and leverage WHEN warrented.


Owl


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## woodchuck361 (Nov 16, 2007)

anyone have some pics or links to dawgs for the MS361 I would like double dawgs Thanks...


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## Cut4fun (Nov 16, 2007)

woodchuck361 said:


> anyone have some pics or links to dawgs for the MS361 I would like double dawgs Thanks...



Plenty of them in the *search feature*. http://www.arboristsite.com/search.php


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## woodchuck361 (Nov 16, 2007)

Cut4fun said:


> Plenty of them in the *search feature*. http://www.arboristsite.com/search.php



thanks I should know better than to ask a question like that


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## B_Turner (Nov 16, 2007)

Dogs give a point(s) of contact and control. Else you are working a saw like an electric breadknife.

Here goes: I say only use dogs if you want to use a saw correctly - safely and efficiently. 

And it's not about spiking in and mindlessly levering the saw either. But if you aren't using the dogs at all you are working too hard.


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## Spotted Owl (Nov 17, 2007)

B_Turner said:


> Dogs give a point(s) of contact and control. Else you are working a saw like an electric breadknife.
> 
> Here goes: I say only use dogs if you want to use a saw correctly - safely and efficiently.
> 
> And it's not about spiking in and mindlessly levering the saw either. But if you aren't using the dogs at all you are working too hard.





Exactly.


Owl


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## Wortown Mick (Nov 17, 2007)

I dont understand how some of you take the dogs off.

The only time I dont use em is limbing / firewood under say 15 inches, thats with a 7900 though. The leverage makes for faster cuts under normal conditions.. I messed around with it not doggin in and to get the same cut speed you need to use considerable force. 

Let the saw do the work let the chain cut yadda yadda. Theres some sort of medium there , some force is needed.


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## blis (Nov 17, 2007)

here we tear off the dogs before we even put a bar to saw... :greenchainsaw:


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 17, 2007)

If the chain is sharpened correctly and the depth gages are set properly, the saw will feed itself through the wood. The problem is, keeping your chain that sharp when your cutting all day long is a pain in the A$$. I think some people probably set there depth gages a bit to low for my taste.

I personally think running dogs makes sawing not only easer but also safer, I feel they add stability and control while making notches and backcuts. I don't think I personally would ever run a saw without a spike of some kind on it, and how could you make a horizontal cut without some point of leverage? 

woodchuck361 I'm also looking to order a set of dogs for my 361.


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## pbtree (Nov 17, 2007)

I like having the dawgs in place, although on smaller saws I do not use them all that much...


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## ScottWojo (Nov 17, 2007)

*Well No Dogs for me.*

I am in a big saw area. Most saws have dogs with the teeth cut off. The Stihl dealer will do it upon request to a new saw.
But the dealer tells me they love the dogs cuz they will smoke the bar. They call em the bar salesman.

I find that when cutting firewood the toothless dog protects the belly of the saw under the muffler and lets you glide through faster. Also lets you move the saw in better angles easier.
I also like stuff that looks kool, so If I was ever to have a special kool saw mor for looks, I would like a set of chromed dogs that looked like flames.


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## SawTroll (Nov 17, 2007)

pgg said:


> The smaller saws, say 60cc or under, 18" bars or less, dogs aren't necessary at all. They come in handy on the bigger saws, the dogs support the extra weight and the bigger saws have the grunt for easy levering. The hassle with dogs they always eventually catch and rip your expensive chaps, specially your left thigh if right handed, and even worse on the right thigh if a lefty, they also tend to scratch, damage, puncture various pieces of equipment, containers, other chainsaws etc... on 70cc or under saws I always unbolt and ditch them




I take them off, but I don't ditch them.....


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## Tzed250 (Nov 17, 2007)

The spikes are a tool, to be used correctly. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Matildasmate (Nov 17, 2007)

Tzed250 said:


> The spikes are a tool, to be used correctly. Nothing more, nothing less.


 Exelent reply Tzed , to the point and no bs . Cheer's MM


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## joecool85 (Nov 17, 2007)

Slamm said:


> Dogs on a saw are an obvious asset, but if you are too dumb to know how to use them, when to use them or why to use them, you probably shouldn't be operating a chainsaw to begin with, LOL.
> 
> My opinion,
> 
> Sam



Thanks man, I appreciate that. The only reason I "don't know how to use them" is because I haven't had a saw with them yet. I'm sure I'd figure it out and could get them to work for me, but silly me, I wanted to know their _proper_ use.

**edit**
After reading through the rest of the thread I have to say thank you to all who gave helpful information. I hadn't heard them called "felling spikes" but I can see how they would be handy for that. I generally don't cut anything bigger than 16" across, sometimes into the 18" range and it's normally softwood. I can see how spikes would help in stabilizing the saw for felling and for cutting down the stump, but for bucking I don't think it would help for what I'm cutting. The saw already goes right through in a nice straight line with little to no pressure on my part. 

Something to keep in mind is not only am I cutting smallish trees, but also Poulans aren't horribly light for their engine size. 10.8 lbs for a 36cc saw is enough weight that it goes through the wood itself while bucking quite well with no assistance other than a sharp chain.


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## slowp (Nov 17, 2007)

ScottWojo said:


> I also like stuff that looks kool, so If I was ever to have a special kool saw mor for looks, I would like a set of chromed dogs that looked like flames.




'kay, now silly time. I thought the dogs were for us PNWers, we can stick em in the thick bark of the Doug-fir and then run the saw with one hand, while holding either our micro brew or latte' in other hand--we can sip and cut at the same time--and if we're thinking about something else, we're multi tasking and being very efficient.  

Flames? When the dealer asked if I wanted my saw engraved, I asked if he did flames. Unfortunately, he didn't. They would have got scratched off anyway. I put some flame decals on my kayak, and have noticed it goes faster. Would the same not be true with the saw?


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## ScottWojo (Nov 17, 2007)

Now wait a mitute. Your telling me that a set of Titanium Dogs Cut in still functional flame shaped teeth on a modded hot saw would not be cool? Polished and slightly heated to give a slight color change. You say this would be Silly? Sir do you own one tool that has chrome on it? Any silly snap on tools?

If I wanted to be silly, I would suggest that you cut the dogs in the shape of bananas and paint em yellow. Flames on anything, sir, whether real or cut into steel, are anything but silly. Unless you paint em backwards on your saw. seen it done.

Silly indeed, Great Googily Moogily.

LoL
Scott.


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## smokechase II (Nov 17, 2007)

*Dawgs*

I suppose that Dawgs can be taken off in small timber.

They certainly make falling and bucking easier.

The larger the diameter, the more important it is to have decent sized dawgs.

Often with thicker bark, the larger spikes work better there too.

*****************

This isn't a manhood thing.
All the cutters in the NW are not making up for some inadequacy with big dawgs and very long bars.

*****************

I've never seen a pro timber cutter here go with small or no dawgs.


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## SawTroll (Nov 17, 2007)

Tzed250 said:


> The spikes are a tool, to be used correctly. Nothing more, nothing less.




That is true, _*when*_ they are needed.


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## 24d (Nov 17, 2007)

I agree with every reason not to have them, and every one to have them, (except for makeing a dull chain cut) the one that came on my saw is more than enough for my needs, however I'm gona put large felling dawgs with a chain catcher on mine because I think they look neat. I dont see any reason not to. I think everyone should do as they please also.


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## slowp (Nov 17, 2007)

ScottWojo said:


> Now wait a mitute. Your telling me that a set of Titanium Dogs Cut in still functional flame shaped teeth on a modded hot saw would not be cool? Polished and slightly heated to give a slight color change. You say this would be Silly? Sir do you own one tool that has chrome on it? Any silly snap on tools?
> 
> If I wanted to be silly, I would suggest that you cut the dogs in the shape of bananas and paint em yellow. Flames on anything, sir, whether real or cut into steel, are anything but silly. Unless you paint em backwards on your saw. seen it done.
> 
> ...



Chrome wouldn't add to the floatation factor of my kayak. No, I haven't had the urge go chromey. I have been told I need to put bigger dogs on the saws, but I think it might be a bad thing to have when packing the saw any distance, for me anyway, so I'm sticking with the original equipment. I'm only bucking stuff or cutting brush or cutting firewood, and will be doing a bit of thinning out at the Moneypit. However, I like the term, Googily Moogily and shall try to utter it when traipsing around in the brush. Like when I jam a stob in my shin, I can cheerily yell, Googily Moogily. I like it !! Or, maybe Holy Googily Moogily, when slapped by a limb in the face on a cold day. It's a lot more original than what one usually hears. Originality counts. Thanks...


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## ropensaddle (Nov 17, 2007)

My dawgs are muzzled  I like them less work and keeps
paint lookin better!


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## XJWoody (Nov 17, 2007)

slowp said:


> Chrome wouldn't add to the floatation factor of my kayak. No, I haven't had the urge go chromey. I have been told I need to put bigger dogs on the saws, but I think it might be a bad thing to have when packing the saw any distance, for me anyway, so I'm sticking with the original equipment. I'm only bucking stuff or cutting brush or cutting firewood, and will be doing a bit of thinning out at the Moneypit. However, I like the term, Googily Moogily and shall try to utter it when traipsing around in the brush. Like when I jam a stob in my shin, I can cheerily yell, Googily Moogily. I like it !! Or, maybe Holy Googily Moogily, when slapped by a limb in the face on a cold day. It's a lot more original than what one usually hears. Originality counts. Thanks...



Great Googily Moogily! First time I heard that was on some old Frank Zappa track.

Another gem was heard uttered by a sweet old lady. We had just established the boundary of her property (There was some disagreement between her and her brother over where their common line ran.) Her term for the moment was "Fiddlesticks!" It was really hard to keep a straight face... 

"Son of a motherless goat" also works well for when less than full-strength is required.

Edit: post #440 That has to be a good sign! Dogs are a tool. I'd rather my saws have them than not.


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## 24d (Nov 17, 2007)

ScottWojo said:


> Now wait a mitute. Great Googily Moogily.LoL
> Scott.



Ok now I'v always heard it "good googily moogily" that way everything got two o's?


I think dolmar has the coolest dawgs for a a stock pair.


Sooooo Scott when can I get some flame'n dawgs for my 440, I need a chain catcher too you know?:chainsawguy:


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## ScottWojo (Nov 17, 2007)

24d said:


> Ok now I'v always heard it "good googily moogily" that way everything got two o's?
> 
> 
> I think dolmar has the coolest dawgs for a a stock pair.
> ...



Hey I am just the Idea guy. I am still trying to make flame stencils in the shape of a "W" for my modded pipes. If I had some stainless plate and some flame stencils I could make some killer ones.

And I think you confused "Good Goobely Goo" with "Great Googely Moogely." 
"Good Goobely Goo" was said by Gradey on Sanford and Son.

Ha ha,
Scott.


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## huskydave (Nov 18, 2007)

It has been my experience that people who run chainsaws day in and day out use them and people who are occasional users don't and there are some like troll who take them off to save weight and get a little longer bite from a shorter bar.


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## Al Smith (Nov 18, 2007)

Oh Lawdy the dawg thing again.All my big dogs are west coasters complete with the big dawgs,giant ones.I kind of figure what's good for the far coast is good for the heart land.

My little midwestern saws of 60 to 80 cc have midwest dawgs,pups really.The micros have none ,they are not mature yet.:biggrinbounce2:


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## slowp (Nov 19, 2007)

*Off topic googily moogily speak*

Tried using Googily Moogily today when I slipped on something under the snow and landed on buns. I could only utter goooo.


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## drmiller100 (Nov 19, 2007)

so by the time you buck up 10 cords in a day, at one point or the other you probably had a slightly dull chain.
dogs let you keep going until the chain is really dull.

if you stick a 28 inch bar into a 8 inch spruce, she wants to feed HARD down into the log. Real world says you stand there and keep the chain out.
now take that same exact setup and move over to a 26 inch doug fir, and by halfway through the log the engine isn't being loaded and the chain is just taking little ittybitty pieces. put the dogs to her.

so you are cutting a 20 inch log laying on the ground, and you are down on your knees. it has been a long day, and you are tired, and not paying total attention, but you have the dogs set and both hands on the saw.
the tip hits a log on the far side, and the saw jumps. with the dogs, it jumps about 2 inches.

i've been cutting a lot of dry piss fir and dry spruce. i'm running an 8 tooth driver on my 7900, and rakers are at .035, and i'm getting plenty of big chips.

what can i do to get my chain to feed better into the big stuff without getting scary stupid on the little stuff?


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## adkranger (Nov 19, 2007)

*What craziness..........*

To each there own, but I can't imagine running my saws w/o any bumper spikes/felling spikes/dawgs or whatever else you wanna call 'em. They are there for a purpose, not a West Coast thing, a macho thing, or a bling thing but a tool built for a purpose. 

Like I said, to each their own preference though.....I guess that's why they make them removeable. The only saw I've ever removed them on is one of my small limbing/climbing saws because there are times when the saw can get hung on a chunk of wood and wants to take the saw with it to the ground. Not a good feeling.....

I can see omitting them from racing saws though.


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## raycarr (Nov 20, 2007)

I just got this old McCulloch from a friend, compared to the rest of his Macs, these dogs are medium. I had to borrow the pics, I'm not risking another shot to the generals asking to use my sister's camera.
I can't wait for the weather to clear and tie into some 20" alders with it.

Ray


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## p575 (Nov 21, 2007)

i have a ms390 with the same dogs that were on it when i got it. what exactly is the "proper" way to use em? i typically let them dig in and the leverage against em to drive the bar into the wood. i will admit that my chain isn't always as sharp as it should be...sometimes though, it seems putting some leverage on it is the only way to make it cut...is this right?


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## GASoline71 (Nov 21, 2007)

Using leverage against them to drive the saw into the wood is not the way they are intended to be used.

They are actually intended to grip thick bark on big trees and they work as a pivot point when fallin'... again, on big wood is where they really come in to play.

If you are usin' the dawgs to reef on the saw to force the saw to cut... you need to work on your chain sharpening skills.

Gary


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## joecool85 (Nov 21, 2007)

GASoline71 said:


> Using leverage against them to drive the saw into the wood is not the way they are intended to be used.
> 
> They are actually intended to grip thick bark on big trees and they work as a pivot point when fallin'... again, on big wood is where they really come in to play.
> 
> ...



And this info right here is what I was looking for. In other words, little to no reason to through them on a 36cc saw w/14" bar.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 21, 2007)

Prolly not...  

Gary


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## 2dogs (Nov 22, 2007)

I have a bumper with no spikes on it that I think came with my MS260 Pro. I run aftermarket dogs on the 460 and 660 and would not be without them. Redwood bark is thick and tends to sluff off and jam up small dogs. Mainly I feel it is safer and easier to use the big grabby dogs. I have never thought, or cared about losing bar length. Nor have I ever considered dogs to be useful with a dull chain. That just seems like a quick way to ruin a bar. The 361 has dual smaller dogs with a roller chain catcher and the 441 has dual large Stihl dogs but I have been experimenting with those two. My 371 and 394 are both factory full wraps and came with big dogs. I even had dual small dogs with the roller catcher on the 260. The 357XP comes with one teeny, worthless dog. I don't know if there is an optional bigger dog for it or not.


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## joecool85 (Nov 22, 2007)

2dogs said:


> I have a bumper with no spikes on it that I think came with my MS260 Pro. I run aftermarket dogs on the 460 and 660 and would not be without them. Redwood bark is thick and tends to sluff off and jam up small dogs. Mainly I feel it is safer and easier to use the big grabby dogs. I have never thought, or cared about losing bar length. Nor have I ever considered dogs to be useful with a dull chain. That just seems like a quick way to ruin a bar. The 361 has dual smaller dogs with a roller chain catcher and the 441 has dual large Stihl dogs but I have been experimenting with those two. My 371 and 394 are both factory full wraps and came with big dogs. I even had dual small dogs with the roller catcher on the 260. The 357XP comes with one teeny, worthless dog. I don't know if there is an optional bigger dog for it or not.



What is a roller catcher? Pics?


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## 24d (Nov 22, 2007)

pics of big dawgs with rollers this is always my favorite part!:chainsawguy:


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## thomas72 (Nov 22, 2007)

I think chain speed has a big factor on bucking gaffs. A saw with a high chain speed will not have any use for them unless the chain dulls then a lot of people tend to keep pushing on the saw instead of sharpening the chain. On bigger saws you need the spikes to managed the extra weight of the saw, and to put the engine under the correct cutting load that the saw was designed to run under. I could not see running my SP125s or Poulan pro 655 without bucking gaffs.


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## raycarr (Nov 22, 2007)

I have seen saws with big spikes, too big for anything but logging, they look cool, but would be in the way for normal firewood use. I'll ask for some pics from the owner.

Ray


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## kevinj (Nov 22, 2007)

24d said:


> pics of big dawgs with rollers this is always my favorite part!:chainsawguy:



The roller is located at the bottom, between each the spikes.


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## joecool85 (Nov 22, 2007)

kevinj said:


> The roller is located at the bottom, between each the spikes.



Ah, I see. So, why do you need a roller there? I guess I don't see why it'd be important.


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## 2dogs (Nov 22, 2007)

Yes it is a bigger tougher chain catcher that is the full width between the dogs. The little hook catcher gets beat up pretty fast and breaks off. The roller catcher protects the saw much better than the hook.


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## geofore (Nov 23, 2007)

*not so*



thomas72 said:


> I think chain speed has a big factor on bucking gaffs. A saw with a high chain speed will not have any use for them unless the chain dulls then a lot of people tend to keep pushing on the saw instead of sharpening the chain. On bigger saws you need the spikes to managed the extra weight of the saw, and to put the engine under the correct cutting load that the saw was designed to run under. I could not see running my SP125s or Poulan pro 655 without bucking gaffs.



bucking spikes are for the guys that don't know they ought not to remove the rakers more than 25-35 thous. it keeps the saw from being pulled into the wood hard enough to break the front of the saw or splitting the case causing a leak. Then on the other hand if you used the spikes you could run the saw through the wood with just one finger lifting on the trigger.
None of that two hands on the saw for safety, dawg in, pointer finger under the trigger and lift gentlely. I suggest you stand to one side or the other and not directly behind the saw if you do this to find out how well you can sharpen a chain. If it doesn't cut through the wood with just the lift of one finger your sharpening skills need work. The saw should have enough power to hold the dawgs in the wood and the chain should be sharp enough to pull the saw down through the wood. 
There are a few common mistakes harry homeowners make that make spikes a must have. The bad start, not revving the saw up speed before touching wood. At a dead stop on the chain harry places the saw to wood pushes down then pulls the trigger. Saw slams into the wood and breaks the front of the case as the saw responds to the trigger pull. Starting the cut using the tip end of the saw and as the chain bites into the wood, harry's grip is inadiquate to hold on and the saw goes flying into the wood busts the case. Some times caused by removing the rakers or lowering them way too far but that's covered in harry learns to sharpen a chain.


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## 2dogs (Nov 23, 2007)

Well! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways. I'll be sure to remove the spikes off all the saws. We all need the exact same tools no matter what the job. No room for tolerance here.


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## joecool85 (Nov 24, 2007)

2dogs said:


> Yes it is a bigger tougher chain catcher that is the full width between the dogs. The little hook catcher gets beat up pretty fast and breaks off. The roller catcher protects the saw much better than the hook.



Hey, that's pretty cool! I hate the little aluminum bugger on my saw, one chain that came off and the thing is all messed up.


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## super3 (Feb 3, 2008)

andrewspens said:


> Here we go, getting ready for another eastern US versus west coast fight. The saw manufacturers put the spikes on for a reason. Do you remove the front bumper from your car and let the brakes do their job? :





:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Burvol (Feb 3, 2008)

I hate to say it, but large dogs on saws are vital to PNW cutters. Hardwoods do not need them. It's called THICK ASS BARK on big timber, that is what they were made for. Period. I love big dogs on saws, they are cruical to back cuts and bucking.
All in all, if you are not careful with hogin' into bucking cuts, they will cause you to walk to your partner for a cut-out.


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## fwgsaw (Feb 3, 2008)

Burvol said:


> I hate to say it, but large dogs on saws are vital to PNW cutters. Hardwoods do not need them. It's called THICK ASS BARK on big timber, that is what they were made for. Period. I love big dogs on saws, they are cruical to back cuts and bucking.
> All in all, if you are not careful with hogin' into bucking cuts, they will cause you to walk to your partner for a cut-out.



those big dawgs on my 090 are great, could not imagine running it without


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## slowp (Feb 3, 2008)

I buck up blowdown to just get it out of the road. I've noticed that when I have the one dog (that came with the saw) stuck into the bark, my cut is crooked. So I'm thinking that is a reason one should have two. I cut straight when I don't use the dog. But I'm not too concerned cuz I just want to get the thing bucked up into pieces small enough to roll off the roads. It can be a little embarrassing to cut crooked when you have an audience.


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