# Post logging trail cleanup/ forest management



## headleyj (Feb 22, 2010)

Our property (25acres) was selectively cut ~ 3 years ago. Terrain is very hilly. I want to keep some of the logging trails open. There is absolutely a TON of slash/ undergrowth. 

I've been clearing the major trails with a blade on the weedeater and the bush-hog on the tractor.....I'm losing that battle quickly - I have to clear in the winter - it's just too thick when it's green. 

- Is there another PTO driven implement (like a bush-hog on steroids mixed with a pulverizer (sp?)) that can clean up the wickedly overgrown trails? 
- It would need to take some abuse like a 2-3" branch lying on the ground. 

All I can find it specialized/ dedicated logging equipment that's major $.

Once trails are cleared I can maintain them with the regular bush-hog, but I'm going to quickly lose the battle (and trail access) if I don't get a handle on it soon.

Ideally the trails would be grassy and free of briars, saplings, etc. I know this is years down the road but;
- What do I do now to ensure this in the future? 
- How do I properly manage the vegetation? 
- I don't want to go spraying Utility Grade ROW mix and kill off everything on the trails, do I?? 
- If a spray is the best answer, to ensure minimal runoff do you simply spray in dry weather when it won't rain for 24-48 hrs?

I know this is alot of questions, but I figured this forum would have more experience with this kind of thing. I did search - couldn't find much except for mulching machines and "conhtact your local forester", which I fully intend on doing.

Any advice here is greatly appreciated.


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## Oldtimer (Feb 22, 2010)

From the DR mower website:

The ultimate in
maneuverability! 

Hilly, rugged terrain is no problem with our lockable differential. Lock in for maximum traction...or lock out for maneuvering in tight quarters. Blast through the thickest growth including 3" saplings. 

DR MOWER.


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## headleyj (Feb 22, 2010)

Oldtimer said:


> Search Craigslist for one of these....



I had a Swisher pull behind but it was nowhere close to being stout enough - my 6' bush-hog isn't the right tool IMO either - are the DR's really the right tool???


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## Oldtimer (Feb 22, 2010)

headleyj said:


> I had a Swisher pull behind but it was nowhere close to being stout enough - my 6' bush-hog isn't the right tool IMO either - are the DR's really the right tool???



It'll eat 3" green saplings....

Beyond the DR, you could hire in a hammer mill mower head on a skid-steer or on an excavator...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-hwC85IJVE


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## dingeryote (Feb 22, 2010)

Quit screwing around with mowers, and get serious.

http://www.woodsequipment.com/flailshredders.aspx?id=10495&ekmensel=ff8c4a46_21_0_10495_3

Beg, buy, borrow, steal a flail chopper and be done.

If you're not heavy handed about it, they'll take a 16" stump down to powder in a minuite or two, and 8" limbs/saplings just dissapear into chips as ya mow over them. Do NOT fall off the tractor...

Once ya get the path clear, then you can use the Brush hog once in a while, or just sterilize things once a season with something like Velpar.

Flail choppers ain't cheap, so look for one in good shape used, or ask around for someone that would hire thiers out.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## 2dogs (Feb 22, 2010)

I recommend a Seppi mower. They are not cheap but mine, mounted on a M5950 Kubota would mulch 2" material in one pass. Larger material if it was rotted or in more than one pass. The Seppi is adjustable so it can also mow green grass. Seppi is a hammer flail type mower. In Cali it is sold under the Gearmore brand.

You may need a ROW herbicide the first time. Most are rain fast under 24 hours.


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## WesternSaw (Feb 22, 2010)

*Man!What a machine*



Oldtimer said:


> It'll eat 3" green saplings....
> 
> Beyond the DR, you could hire in a hammer mill mower head on a skid-steer or on an excavator...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-hwC85IJVE


Holy crap talk about clear cuttin!That thing is a monster.WOW!
Lawrence


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## WesternSaw (Feb 22, 2010)

*Brushcutter*

I know this tool i have is not for 25 acres but it sure does kick some butt.I just put a Stihl circular blade on my Stihl KM90 powerhead man that thing really takes care of some serious brush,I took down a 3 inch wide tree with it all be it not in one pass.I bet withe bigger Stihl Kombi powerheads it would really rock!
Lawrence


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## outdoorlivin247 (Feb 22, 2010)

My suggestion is a beat up old Jeep and drag of some sort until you get the trails groomed enough to maintain w/ a regular finishing mower...It only takes a couple of times a month to keep them under control...We used an old chain link fence at a friend of mines for about 2 years until the ground took back the smaller sapling stumps...Then he got the guys from Pheasants Forever to drill the lanes when they were out planting filter strips for him...

The worst part is he get mad at us now if the ground is soft and we wheel thru them...


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## dancan (Feb 22, 2010)

This is from the AS classified , find someone with one of these or similar and hire them (or buy one) to do the initial clean up then you can keep on top of things with a bush hog .


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## RandyMac (Feb 22, 2010)

Sounds like you need a good fire.


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## 385XP (Feb 22, 2010)

Why not use a chainsaw and cat then seed it down and maintain with a brushhog . Im sure hireing a guy with a cat wouldnt cost a ton of money to open some trails.


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## gwiley (Feb 23, 2010)

Some of the other more exotic options would be fun, but a weekend rental of a tracked bull dozer followed by a good seeding and hay spreading will do the trick for less money.


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## slowp (Feb 23, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Sounds like you need a good fire.



Yes. A drip torch is cheaper then a cat.


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## headleyj (Feb 23, 2010)

dancan said:


> This is from the AS classified , find someone with one of these or similar and hire them (or buy one) to do the initial clean up then you can keep on top of things with a bush hog .



that's exactly what I'm talking about! That flail chopper/ mower would be perfect! I will do some looking!!!!!


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## headleyj (Feb 23, 2010)

petesoldsaw said:


> I know this tool i have is not for 25 acres but it sure does kick some butt.I just put a Stihl circular blade on my Stihl KM90 powerhead man that thing really takes care of some serious brush,I took down a 3 inch wide tree with it all be it not in one pass.I bet withe bigger Stihl Kombi powerheads it would really rock!
> Lawrence



got that now, it's just not fast enough. Now if I didn''t have a day job that'd be different, but time is very valuable. The search is on for a 6 or 7' flail shredder! WOW those things are pricey, but it's exactly what I need.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 23, 2010)

385XP said:


> Why not use a chainsaw and cat then seed it down and maintain with a brushhog . Im sure hireing a guy with a cat wouldnt cost a ton of money to open some trails.




I guess great minds must think alike !!!!:agree2:.

It just requires a little sweat ... .
. The Roto Mill that DanCan posted a pic of will do what you need real quik . But NOT IN ROCKS .. Changing ( TRIMMER) teeth isn,t bad , but you need to ease it into the hard stuff ... We use Trimmers , = Roto Mills in Prudhoe Bay alot ...


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## headleyj (Feb 23, 2010)

385XP said:


> Why not use a chainsaw and cat then seed it down and maintain with a brushhog . Im sure hireing a guy with a cat wouldnt cost a ton of money to open some trails.



when you say "cat" I assume you mean a dozer? just want to be sure


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 23, 2010)

I would suggest that when you mark and make your trails try to keep them as straight as possible so that future logging/skidding can be done with minimal bumping of standing trees. Plan the roads a bit so they are on good solid dry ground. I use to use a straight line of site or a transit to keep the paths easy to skid logs on. Even if a path is looking really nice and straight through nice dry ground but there is one tree in the middle of it, then it can be well worth it in the long run to get rid of that tree and have a good road for later use. Just cut the stump down flush and drive over it for a few years.

Good paths make for less damage and easier logging in the future.


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## HitchC&L (Feb 23, 2010)

After my grandfather passed away, his pastures started going to hell. Junipers and choke-cherries took over the property.

What we did was run the tractor with the brush-hog (46 horse, with a hog rated for a 4" limb) 

We dropped the bucket on the tractor to start to break up stuff in front of us and lifted the brushhog as high as possible. It took a few years of going over it (Grandfathers land about an hour south so we couldnt get there every weekend) but now its a clear pasture. This was about 10 years ago.

Now my father is putting a new road in above the fields, and I am cutting the fields back to the stone walls around them. There is a section that is all small trees and I am doing the same thing, just running down it with the bucket dropped and tearing it all out and pushing it into a pile.

Just an idea, it may take a while, but you wont have to go out and buy new equipment...although Im always up for new equipment


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## crowbuster (Feb 23, 2010)

The tree company that maintains the right of way for our electric utility has a machine like that and ran it across my propertym wow what a monster, he ate everything till he hit a down wove wire fence, cost him an hour and a half cutting it out. maybe you can call a few big tree guys in your area and hire them for the job and not have to lay out all the cash to buy one, good luck.

C.B.


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## dingeryote (Feb 23, 2010)

HeadleyJ,

I yakked with the Local Woods dealer today and thought of your post and asked. Woods dosn't make a small Flail chopper anymore, just the 10' monsters...and they ain't cheap. You could buy a nice used tractor for what they sell for new.

So on the off chance I called the local Landini dealer and asked what he was getting for the 6' Nobli Flail choppers...
You sitting down? 6K. Nobli is an Italian outfit that manufactures for themselves and several "Big name outfits" that just paint 'em green and slap thier stickers on them. There's video on thier site.http://www.nobili.com/en/cat_serie.php?ID=186

I gotta run south to get Ford/New Holland parts this week, and they usually have a used/rebuilt Flail chopper on the board, and they usually run around 2-3K. If I find anything I'll holler at ya.

Most guys around here run 'em to chop up pruned Blueberry Canes so the hammers get worn out, but there's not much driveline/gearbox wear on them from the light load.

If ya do it, it would be smart to just use it, then turn around and sell it for about what ya got into it, and then just maintain with the Brush Mower/bush hog and pre-emerge herbicides.

Gotta admit though...backing up to a stump and making it dissapear is FUN..

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## headleyj (Feb 23, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> I would suggest that when you mark and make your trails try to keep them as straight as possible so that future logging/skidding can be done with minimal bumping of standing trees. Plan the roads a bit so they are on good solid dry ground. I use to use a straight line of site or a transit to keep the paths easy to skid logs on. Even if a path is looking really nice and straight through nice dry ground but there is one tree in the middle of it, then it can be well worth it in the long run to get rid of that tree and have a good road for later use. Just cut the stump down flush and drive over it for a few years.
> 
> Good paths make for less damage and easier logging in the future.




Very true and I must say the logger who previously owned my property has a history of not givin a flyin *&^% about the environment....his trails are just about everywhere. I certainly have no intentions of opening up all the trails, just the primary ones....and yes I do my best to make them straight.



HitchC&L said:


> After my grandfather passed away, his pastures started going to hell. Junipers and choke-cherries took over the property.
> 
> What we did was run the tractor with the brush-hog (46 horse, with a hog rated for a 4" limb)
> 
> ...



I have done this in some places. For briars and such it works fine, but with small trees/ large saplings sometimes it's not so good. I'm not afraid to take the bushhog to a 1" tree - it's a beater bush-hog in the 1st place, but some of the larger stuff will make you cringe when you hit it. The flail shredder seems like the right tool for the job and I've found the right tool can make all the difference. Also I have piles of slash/ debris all over the place now - I'd like to avoid making more if possible. I do appreciate the advice.



crowbuster said:


> The tree company that maintains the right of way for our electric utility has a machine like that and ran it across my propertym wow what a monster, he ate everything till he hit a down wove wire fence, cost him an hour and a half cutting it out. maybe you can call a few big tree guys in your area and hire them for the job and not have to lay out all the cash to buy one, good luck.
> 
> C.B.




Good point. My 2 BIL's both work in the electric field, 1 builds substations and1 is a lineman. I'll chat more with them this weekend and see if there's anything they could do....if not I could always contact the contractors that has that machine.


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## headleyj (Feb 23, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> HeadleyJ,
> 
> I yakked with the Local Woods dealer today and thought of your post and asked. Woods dosn't make a small Flail chopper anymore, just the 10' monsters...and they ain't cheap. You could buy a nice used tractor for what they sell for new.
> 
> ...




6k?....gulp. yeah I went on tractorhouse and saw 20 footers, 10 footers and the like, but not too many 5-6 footers......seems to be a difference b/t a flail mower adn a flail shredder too

Hey thanks a ton for thinking of me at the Woods dealer man- yeah absolutely if you come across anything down south holler at me, I'll PM ya my cell. I'll certainly rep ya again after I spread it around some more. Sincerely, Thank you very much.


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## dingeryote (Feb 23, 2010)

No sweat!

Just a question for ya though..

What Tractor ya running?
Flail choppers are great but need some power. 

Ya might be better off running a HEAVY Brush Bull with a stump Jumper.

Not the Cheapo Land pride estate farm stuff or the TSC crap, but a 3/8" decked Old school, overbuilt, commercial/industrial model.

LOL!!
6" sassafrass and maples ain't a problem for the better brush choppers out there, IF your tractor has the ass and the PTO grunt. Just back into the bigger ones with the RPMs up and set the deck down on 'em.
The stump jumper keeps the spindle safe, while the blades hammer things to shreds. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## headleyj (Feb 23, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> No sweat!
> 
> Just a question for ya though..
> 
> ...



hey NP - I'm running an L3830 - bout 32hp @ the PTO according to tractordata.com

I thought about that, but with my limited success with the Woods bushhog (heavy sucker) I didn't figure it was worth looking into any further - I'll have to reinvestigate


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## pinesfarm (Feb 23, 2010)

gravely self propelled mower things are real bears and will easily take out 3 inch trees 

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ravely+walk+behind&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbs=isch:1

http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/gravely2.jpg


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## dancan (Feb 23, 2010)

They use the larger flail units around here to clear the trees and brush on the sides of the main highways .
Check and see if your department of highways or larger tree service use a similar service and see if you can get a quote .
In our area after a flail has passed through it will be a few years before you see any woody stocks taller than a foot . 
If your real ambitious , take a pto snowblower , remove the auger and screws , make a shaft , weld some short chain with angle iron cutters welded on the other end and run like heck when you engage the pto .


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## redprospector (Feb 23, 2010)

I've got one of the skidsteer mounted mulchers (flail mower, masticator, whatever you want to call it), and in my opinion that is the ticket for trails. You can have a trail half way cut before you can think about getting started with a "brush cutter" or chainsaw. Even with a cat you need to cut most of it first, and then you still have to do something with the slash. Once you have it under control you can maintain it with the brush hog.
The down side is that they are expensive. Your best bet would be to hire someone that has one. Mine is a 105 horse power ASV, with a gyro trac head. I charge $125 and hour, but on jobs like you have I can cover a lot of ground in an hour. I don't know what they would charge where you're at.

Andy


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## 385XP (Feb 23, 2010)

headleyj said:


> when you say "cat" I assume you mean a dozer? just want to be sure


yes i mean dozer when i say cat.Id say if ya only have the trails on 20 acres to do it would be most cost effective to do it this way . Id say it would probly take about 4 hours to open the trails with a cat and chainsaw.


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## 385XP (Feb 23, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> I guess great minds must think alike !!!!:agree2:.
> 
> It just requires a little sweat ... .
> . The Roto Mill that DanCan posted a pic of will do what you need real quik . But NOT IN ROCKS .. Changing ( TRIMMER) teeth isn,t bad , but you need to ease it into the hard stuff ... We use Trimmers , = Roto Mills in Prudhoe Bay alot ...


yes im a cat man they are the swiss army knife of logging equipment. you can use them to build your trails to get in use em to get the logs out clean up your mess. If it wasnt for track wear i think skidders wouldnt be so popular. A 650j deere with a winch and arch makes a nice logging machine around here if ya dont have to skid far.We dont get trees much over a 1000 bdft around here so 540 deeres are the norm around here for skidders. Not to mention the cats and feller bunchers are made in my home town and the skidders are made just down the high way .


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## headleyj (Feb 24, 2010)

385XP said:


> yes i mean dozer when i say cat.Id say if ya only have the trails on 20 acres to do it would be most cost effective to do it this way . Id say it would probly take about 4 hours to open the trails with a cat and chainsaw.



gotcha, thanks. Yeah a buddy of mine brought out a Case 450C and was pulling trees at a helluva rate - wife even said WOW, maybe we should bought a dozer


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## headleyj (Feb 24, 2010)

well to sum it up;
- I've got a few people keeping eyes out for used flail shredders
- there's always the Woods Extreme Duty brush bull 
- I can always hire my buddy to come out and clean the trails up with the dozer


I'll let ya'll know how the flail search goes!! THanks to all for your advice and help here - I always wondered what the hell a "flail mower" was - found out yesterday 

Thanks again!!

Josh


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## tramp bushler (Feb 24, 2010)

I,m finding there are many peole who post on here that are not into the work of running a saw ... They ought to be able to find someone around there. They could hire that shows some signs of life . Put a bunch of kevlar gear on them and a hard hat , screen ear muff combo on their head , a 260 stihl or 346 Husky and some sharp chains , Gatoraid , gas and oil , and have them work in front of the tractor cutting the stuff too big for the bush hog ... You will be suprised at how fast it goes ............... Pay the guy $ 250 .00 a day so he will have a good reason to work his ass off for 7 hours ... Make sure he knows you expect him to work like a professional , not some lazy mutt ........
.
. And don,t anyone waste their time saying that won,t work ..............There are hungry guys any where ya go ..... I just usually am hungrier and will out work my competition ........ But I,m not ,,, Down South ......


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## headleyj (Feb 24, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> I,m finding there are many peole who post on here that are not into the work of running a saw ... They ought to be able to find someone around there. They could hire that shows some signs of life . Put a bunch of kevlar gear on them and a hard hat , screen ear muff combo on their head , a 260 stihl or 346 Husky and some sharp chains , Gatoraid , gas and oil , and have them work in front of the tractor cutting the stuff too big for the bush hog ... You will be suprised at how fast it goes ............... Pay the guy $ 250 .00 a day so he will have a good reason to work his ass off for 7 hours ... Make sure he knows you expect him to work like a professional , not some lazy mutt ........
> .
> . And don,t anyone waste their time saying that won,t work ..............There are hungry guys any where ya go ..... I just usually am hungrier and will out work my competition ........ But I,m not ,,, Down South ......



yeah getting 1 person on the tractor or dozer and another on the ground would be a helluva lot faster for sure. If I go the dozer route I was gonna tell my buddy I can be on teh ground running the saw.


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## headleyj (Feb 24, 2010)

Here's a few pics I took last night from the deck....there's trees down everywhere, it's just getting to them before they're too far gone.
















If you look between the "V" of the two trees there to the right...off in the distance you can see one of the main trails...next pic is zoomed up on it.


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 24, 2010)

Looking at those pics and based on the time you said it was logged that looks pretty much like just new growth that has jumped up. It is not all that hard to whack down with a bush hog. Sure more expensive stuff will be more fun and do it faster, but if you get the 2" and bigger stuff down with a saw the bush hog can handle stuff smaller than that. 

My dad had 23 acres of fallow field where there were poplars up to 10" in diameter. I cut everything down that was over 4" the first year, and then the next year I took everything that was left that was ~2" and bigger. The third year I went in with my whimpy Ford 9N and a 6' hog and ground the whole place down to look like a lawn. And I did it in the middle of the summer when I had ~3-4' goldenrod and weeds to cut along with the remaining trees.

I think you can clean that up with a bush hog. Those tops are losing life fast. You will want to get them out and processed quickly.


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## headleyj (Feb 24, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Looking at those pics and based on the time you said it was logged that looks pretty much like just new growth that has jumped up. It is not all that hard to whack down with a bush hog. Sure more expensive stuff will be more fun and do it faster, but if you get the 2" and bigger stuff down with a saw the bush hog can handle stuff smaller than that.
> 
> My dad had 23 acres of fallow field where there were poplars up to 10" in diameter. I cut everything down that was over 4" the first year, and then the next year I took everything that was left that was ~2" and bigger. The third year I went in with my whimpy Ford 9N and a 6' hog and ground the whole place down to look like a lawn. And I did it in the middle of the summer when I had ~3-4' goldenrod and weeds to cut along with the remaining trees.
> 
> I think you can clean that up with a bush hog. Those tops are losing life fast. You will want to get them out and processed quickly.




Yeah I'll prolly keep using what I've got for now and pray I don't pop a tire


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 24, 2010)

headleyj said:


> Yeah I'll prolly keep using what I've got for now and pray I don't pop a tire



I went back and reread your first post. 3 Years for tops is approaching the end of their usefullness. Locust is fine even after 20 (BTDT) but maple, ash, birch is going to get punky after 3 years.

Your tires will be fine. In all the years I spent in the woods, I never poked a stick in my rear tires. I popped tubless tires on my trailer off the rims many, many times, but the rears on my tractor took a sticking and kept on ticking.


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## headleyj (Feb 24, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> I went back and reread your first post. 3 Years for tops is approaching the end of their usefullness. Locust is fine even after 20 (BTDT) but maple, ash, birch is going to get punky after 3 years.
> 
> Your tires will be fine. In all the years I spent in the woods, I never poked a stick in my rear tires. I popped tubless tires on my trailer off the rims many, many times, but the rears on my tractor took a sticking and kept on ticking.



that's my main worry - poking through a tire - yeah the good tops/ trees are getting harder and harder to find for sure - hence my sense of urgency.


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## dancan (Feb 24, 2010)

Nice pics , I've cleared lots like that just not that large .
Low tech is a chainsaw or an FS550 and some hired help dragging and making piles , get a grapple attachment on your bucket and then gather your piles to either chip or burn .Get a Farmi type logging winch for your tractor and pull the tops to you .


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## michigander (Feb 24, 2010)

Here is the Brush Bull by Woods Equipment! You should have at least a 40 horse tractor for it. It will chew some stuff up. Rated for 4 inch! It wont chew stumps down. I found that out.:greenchainsaw:


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## dingeryote (Feb 25, 2010)

LOL!!

Nah...wont chew stumps bigger than 6" or so. But trying wont hurt 'em none either.

Here's mine under an Oak than snapped during a Tornado back in 07'.
I ducked under the tractor when I heard the "BANG", as I was closing the Cab up at the time. Then the whole tractor jumped when the tree hit.
I PASSED my Dog running back to the house..LOL!

Not a scratch on that Chopper though.
Woods still makes stuff like they expect it to be used..







Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## 056 kid (Feb 25, 2010)

headleyj said:


> Our property (25acres) was selectively cut ~ 3 years ago. Terrain is very hilly. I want to keep some of the logging trails open. There is absolutely a TON of slash/ undergrowth.
> 
> I've been clearing the major trails with a blade on the weedeater and the bush-hog on the tractor.....I'm losing that battle quickly - I have to clear in the winter - it's just too thick when it's green.
> 
> ...






Let it rot . . .


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 25, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Snicker. How come nobody's pointing out Dinger's tractor is wearing a skirt? Is that the girly model of tractor?


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## woodlotguy (Feb 25, 2010)

A brush saw(fs550) is a pretty useful tool.You can clear alot with one.You might be amazed at how some students or cheap labour could get done in a day.We try and make our roads wide enogh to disc later and plant for wildlife.On the tractor note and tires,always mow in the same direction when you are in heavy stuff,the stumps tend to orient one way and far less chance of sticking a tire.I have a brush brute mounted on the front of my loader,it has angled tines that grab the smaller trees(2-5 inches)you lift up and rip everything out by the roots.mow the finer stuff after this,disc and plant.Hardest thing on tractor tires that I have found are old shed deer antlers


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2010)

headleyj said:


> gotcha, thanks. Yeah a buddy of mine brought out a Case 450C and was pulling trees at a helluva rate - wife even said WOW, maybe we should bought a dozer


 . Around here small used dozers can be got pretty cheap . They prolly can there also . If you put a new cutting edge on the blade they will shear off alot of your little trees if you can get to them when the ground is frozen hard .......


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2010)

*Curly , be nice ..*



Curlycherry1 said:


> Snicker. How come nobody's pointing out Dinger's tractor is wearing a skirt? Is that the girly model of tractor?


.

.

. One good thing you could drive as fast as possible and would'nt get any mud on you .... 
. Digger must be one tough son of a gun to drive a tractor like that .. 
I had no idea there were tornados in Michigan . yuk ..


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2010)

. I think 056 has the right idea ... let it rot .. ... If you hunt it keeps things more real , less park like ... but I would salvage the burnable wood ... To let good hardwood firewood rot seems wrong to me .as we mostly only have spruce to burn here ............ trees have to eat something too !! ... Those are great pics !!.....with all the widow makers I see hanging , I sincerely hope you are pretty religious about wearing your hard hat ....And ALWAYS LOOK UP ........
.
. This may be redundant but I,m going to write it ......... 
. Looking up , and seeing what is over your head is one of the most important things there is for someone workin in the woods ... There not called widow makers for nothing ......... It is a discipline . You have to make yourself do it , and it,s easy to get busy or lazy and or forgetful and not look up ...........

. Your not cool wearing a soft hat , or no hat ....... It's really hard to beat the modern hard hat, screen , ear muffs systems .... put a 10"x 12" nylon ( cape ) on the back and you are good to go ........... A hard hat is about 100 times as important as chaps .......Eye protection is much more important than chaps also ....


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## headleyj (Feb 25, 2010)

Yeah there's some widowmakers there for sure. I am careful for sure - there are some things I need to do to ensure that safety though.

The small stuff I'll let go - the larger stuff (16" and over) I cut to see if it's rotted and then decide.


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## dingeryote (Feb 26, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...



Tramp.

Tornados happen just about every year around here. We caught 80mph winds on that one but no touch down locally. 

The fender skirts keep the tires from tearing up Blueberry bushes and knocking fruit off of 'em. Folks pay 3 Bucks a pound for the fruit, and those fenders save a Couple Grand a Row if I gotta get into the field when things are ripe.

"Girly"?
Some soft handed Nancy Boys that don't know thier ass from a hole in the ground might see it that way, but they have a right to thier opinion.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 26, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> The fender skirts keep the tires from tearing up Blueberry bushes and knocking fruit off of 'em. Folks pay 3 Bucks a pound for the fruit, and those fenders save a Couple Grand a Row if I gotta get into the field when things are ripe.
> 
> "Girly"?
> Some soft handed Nancy Boys that don't know thier ass from a hole in the ground might see it that way, but they have a right to thier opinion.
> ...



Just had to bust on ya Dinger.  I saw a bunch of those kinds of tractors in wine and orchard country in NY (Lake Erie Shore). Some of them were modified so the fenders went down to ~6" above the ground and were shaped like they were going to be put into a wind tunnel. They also had cabs that were blended right into the hoods so branches and vines would get a nice smooth ride right up over the tractor. They were weird looking machines.

Curiosity question: with blueberries being so easy to knock off the bushes what would force you into the fields with a tractor? Spraying, picking up harvested fruit? I am just wondering because I know from my own bushes that shake them too much and the ground becomes blue with fallen fruit.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 26, 2010)

Ya boy ,, at 3 bucks a lb ...
. In Southeast we get blue berry and huckle berry like you wouldn,t believe .. When they are ripe boots , pants , chaps , shirt , hands , face , hard hat ect gets stained blue red .from them ... ...Fastest way to pick berries is with 5 gallon buckets . .. Stick a bush in a pail and shake it . the ripe berries fall in the bucket , the unripe ones don,t ... some people pick 100 lbs a day in Southeast , wandering around in the clearcuts ... The berry bushes come back before the conifers take over and close off the canopy .......Its alot of fun , just you , your buckets , the berries and the bears ... lots of bears !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.


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## 056 kid (Feb 26, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Sounds like you need a good fire.



those where the words I was going to add if i didnt see them. Some proper poisening could work too maybe?


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## 056 kid (Feb 26, 2010)

headleyj said:


> Here's a few pics I took last night from the deck....there's trees down everywhere, it's just getting to them before they're too far gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



looks like they left alot of wood on the ground. .


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## headleyj (Feb 26, 2010)

056 kid said:


> looks like they left alot of wood on the ground. .



there's a TON. There's trees with rootball and all - Hickory's and oaks no less, bettin those fell over after they were gone but dunno for sure.


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## dingeryote (Feb 26, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Just had to bust on ya Dinger.  I saw a bunch of those kinds of tractors in wine and orchard country in NY (Lake Erie Shore). Some of them were modified so the fenders went down to ~6" above the ground and were shaped like they were going to be put into a wind tunnel. They also had cabs that were blended right into the hoods so branches and vines would get a nice smooth ride right up over the tractor. They were weird looking machines.
> 
> Curiosity question: with blueberries being so easy to knock off the bushes what would force you into the fields with a tractor? Spraying, picking up harvested fruit? I am just wondering because I know from my own bushes that shake them too much and the ground becomes blue with fallen fruit.



Just bustin back Curly.

Every once in a while the fruit is at set, and the weather precludes getting the spray plane in there to Nuke fungus or Beetles, so out comes the old 3pt sprayer, and a lot of cussing. 


Same thing on the hand pick side. I time mowing the middles so as to not have to get back in there untill after harvest, but if we get lots of rain, the middles come up, and there's just no choice. Either Mow, or pay the pickers more to put up with the dew covered Calf high grass. Till it just before harvest, and theres dust on the fruit, and the Pickers snivel about the uneven ground and mud near the driplines. 


Yep. Some of the new Landini/McCormick "N" series Orchard Tractors could almost squeeze through most folks front door. Those curved front windows are really cool, but if ya break one....you're gonna need a Loan to replace it.
Wierd, but crazy cool streamlining, and 95hp that will turn inside of a Jeep.

LOL!!
I gotta streamline my tractors tool box. Last year it got knocked open, and then got FILLED with green berrys from the sharp angle. Probably dropped a couple hundred bucks worth on the ground before I caught it.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## dingeryote (Mar 4, 2010)

Found another source for the smaller flails for ya, while shopping for Berthoud sprayer parts.



http://www.superbhorticulture.com/choppers-seriesbg2bk2.php
Good folks to deal with.

Chops brush up to 4" if ya have the HP.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Frank Boyer (Mar 5, 2010)

A dozer or crawler loader is the way to go. I have a 27 hp 4 WD kubota with a 5' Gearmore flail mower and it bogs down in heavy 1" brush. A day with a crawler loader/dozer would do most of what you need. A crawler can cut roads, get the drainage right , and remove the stumps. Check around and get a couple of estimates. How wide do you want your trails? A D4 or D5 size tractor (80 to 100 hp) with a 8-10' blade can get it done in a hurry. Forget doing it by hand unless you really need the exercise.


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## Fechmup (Mar 5, 2010)

Maybe I've missed something posted previously; if that's the case, I apologize. I'm surprised no one mentioned a tracked Bobcat (T250/T300) with a brushcutter (Brushcat) on it. I rented that setup a year and a half ago for a GNARLY, thick job. I had budgeted 4 guys cutting non-stop for 6 days with Stihl brushcutters and chainsaws. I did it myself in two, the only handwork I had to do were on some larger growth.

The beauty of that thing was, if I didn't think I could run it over, I could usually boom up, crush it with the brushcutter itself, and then drive right over it. That thing was a revolutionary step in how we went about jobs like that, which was a wet nightmare.

As I recall, it was about $900 for a weeks rental of the Bobcat, Brushcat, delivery, and pickup combined.


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## mdavlee (Mar 5, 2010)

A friend of mine rented a T190 bobcat for a weekend to open up some 4 wheeler trails wide enough for a truck. It worked pretty good. It would knock down small trees that were 6" or under. He ended up going back in with a dozer later to add some more roads in it. The bobcat would work, but a dozer would be better.


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## Turkeyslayer (Mar 5, 2010)

These tree cutters look pretty neat. I have not used one, but saw them advertised in the farm and fleet flyer. They advertise they can shred a tree 6-8" dia depending on the model of cutter and hp of the tractor.http://www.brownmfgcorp.com/cutter/index.html


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## redprospector (Mar 5, 2010)

There are a lot of options for keeping your trails clear, and if they get the job done none of them are wrong. Personally I think that the most cost effective way is with a mulching head on a tracked skid steer like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-hwC85IJVE

A small tractor (20 to 30 HP) isn't going to do much good at mulching slash.
I'm not opposed to running a chainsaw in front of a dozer, but I don't believe it would be as cost effective. 
I would think that there is someone in your area that has one of these mulchers, and you would be surprised at how quickly your job could be done. This method leaves everything to rot and go back into the soil.

Andy


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## Fechmup (Mar 5, 2010)

redprospector said:


> There are a lot of options for keeping your trails clear, and if they get the job done none of them are wrong. Personally I think that the most cost effective way is with a mulching head on a tracked skid steer like this.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-hwC85IJVE
> 
> ...



That's really close to the machine I used - but I think the attachment on the ASV looks a little more heavy duty. I like it.

I agree with you completely!


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## ken45 (Mar 28, 2010)

I love the idea of a skid steer shredder or even a rotary cutter ("bush hog") but from what I've heard, you really need an enclosed cab (or at least a demolition door) for safety. For those of you with experience with this type of equipment, is that accurate? I have a skid steer but it's not enclosed.

I love the mulcher heads like the Fecon in the last post! :love1: We could do so much with one of those to clear out our horse trails at the state park. The local Bobcat dealer tells me that they rent them, complete with an equipped track loader for $2000/week  Oh, but how much we could get done in a week! LOL.

I may rent a Brushcat (rotary cutter) from the local rental place for a day and see how it does. 

But the ground clearing tools won't do much to keep the briars and branches from growing over the trails from the sides in the future. I'd really love a bucket or skid steer mounted chain saw. I haven't been able to find one. I keep looking at the skid steer mounted sickle bar mower at skidsteersolutions.com but it's too expensive and won't handle the occasional bigger branch like a chain saw would.

Ken


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## Fechmup (Mar 28, 2010)

You raise an interesting point in regard to a cab door and safety. There's a safety feature on the brushcat that shuts down the blades if the deck is raised too high. The T250 I used in combination with a brushcat did not have a door on the cab - I never really gave the safety of it much thought. That doesn't mean I wasn't putting myself in danger, I just never thought about it. I really only spent about 16 hours in the machine, so it's not like I have years of experience under my belt with the brushcat, but I did put it to the test. I think you're making a good decision by giving it a shot - I'm pretty sure you'll be impressed.

I think for future maintenance - if you're doing it yearly - you'll be better served by a hedge trimmer type tool than a chainsaw - especially for briars and such.


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## ihookem (Mar 28, 2010)

Sure turned a lot of good firewood into mulch. I'd clear the firewood out with a chainsaw if you burn wood, throw it aside till the trail is made then come back and get the wood with your new trail


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## catbuster (Mar 28, 2010)

Look for a CAT 931,941,or late year 955. if you want to sepnd some cash,pick up a 39,43 or 53. A 39 can have a mulcher head on it. Sweeps too. I prefer the 43s or 53bs. Don't pick up a C unless it's really nice at low price. The A and B series are easier to work on with the 53s.


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## WesternSaw (Mar 28, 2010)

*Ken45*

If your looking to keep the trails up after a major clear out how about what the other poster mentioned in regards to a trimmer type machine.I have a Stihl circular saw blade on my Kombi 90 and it is very good for taking down any brush, it will handle stuff quite larger than blackberry type stuff.It cut's down big thumb size brush like a hot knife through butter.
Lawrence


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## Frank Boyer (Mar 28, 2010)

Those little machines are good for small stuff in tight areas. The trees in that demo clip looked 3-4" in diameter. Nice mulch.
If you need to do road cutting, drainage correction, and/or moving large trees/stumps get a larger machine. Once you've run the larger machines it would be hard to go back down to the small tractors.


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## wvlogger (Mar 28, 2010)

dozer is the way to go here. You could skid out your firewood. Brush your roads and do the roadwork (looks like the main trail needs some) You can do alot with a 450 John Deere with a winch


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## tawilson (Mar 28, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Let it rot . . .



I call it "letting it go back to the earth from which it came."


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## ken45 (Mar 28, 2010)

Pete,

Stihl does not show a saw blade attachment for the Kombi system. I do have a Kombi 55 with a pole saw and the power scythe but a couple of hours of swinging those up and down in the trees wears me out. They are, however, a definite improvement over more manual approaches.

As I get older, I'm relying on more and more machinery, LOL. For reference, I have about 8 miles of trails at home and we maintain (or try to maintain) about 60 miles in the state park.

The only Stihl equipment I see listed with a circular blade are the brushcutters. Those would be very good at ground level, but not good for the stuff hanging over the trail at chest level or higher. When clearing horse trails, we need to clear up to about 9' high. 

Ken


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## redprospector (Mar 28, 2010)

ken45 said:


> I love the idea of a skid steer shredder or even a rotary cutter ("bush hog") but from what I've heard, you really need an enclosed cab (or at least a demolition door) for safety. For those of you with experience with this type of equipment, is that accurate? I have a skid steer but it's not enclosed.
> 
> I love the mulcher heads like the Fecon in the last post! :love1: We could do so much with one of those to clear out our horse trails at the state park. The local Bobcat dealer tells me that they rent them, complete with an equipped track loader for $2000/week  Oh, but how much we could get done in a week! LOL.
> 
> ...



Yep, you need a door made of lexan. Same stuff as "bullet proof glass" but my door is thinner. The cab dosen't get continuously pummeled with chunks, but the door dose take a good lick from a chunk once in a while. When I first got my machine it had 3/16" lexan in the door. After about a week of running it a chunk busted the lexan. it didn't come through, but it sure put a good "star burst" in the lexan. I replaced it with 1/4", when it's replaced again I think it will be 1/2".
If you rent one don't let them send you out with a standard enclosed cab, or a plexi-glass door. 
An open cab can be enclosed with sheets of lexan, but without AC it gets a little warm in there.

Andy


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## catbuster (Mar 28, 2010)

I seriously don't get why people only run dozers isntead of track loaders. Dozers with angle blades suck for clearing because of all the pins and bushings when you try to pop a stump. With a loader you can get under the stump,and pry it up,and you can push it out like with a dozer. Once you've ran an angle dozer,using the loader is easy. With a track loader and 4-n-1 you can pile logs too. Think about PA Plumber's work,doing it all with a 931C. He was on the TL and he had a guy falling/bucking/limbing. A 953C/D (only because they have lower hors with less chance to break down,minus the electronic crap) with sweeps and a winch is my personal dream logging machine. So much you can do with them. I wish the 943 was back. That was the perfect size. 





ken45 said:


> I love the idea of a skid steer shredder or even a rotary cutter ("bush hog") but from what I've heard, you really need an enclosed cab (or at least a demolition door) for safety. For those of you with experience with this type of equipment, is that accurate? I have a skid steer but it's not enclosed.
> 
> I love the mulcher heads like the Fecon in the last post! :love1: We could do so much with one of those to clear out our horse trails at the state park. The local Bobcat dealer tells me that they rent them, complete with an equipped track loader for $2000/week  Oh, but how much we could get done in a week! LOL.
> 
> ...



Yes. Lexan is a requirement. So is High-Flow. And tracks are nice when you mulch. Mulchers,like hammers wear on a machine like few other. People who rent them have to rotate the machines so they don't get worn and break down on site. And with the forestry setup,a CTL or SSL aint cheap.


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## redprospector (Mar 28, 2010)

ken45 said:


> But the ground clearing tools won't do much to keep the briars and branches from growing over the trails from the sides in the future. I'd really love a bucket or skid steer mounted chain saw. I haven't been able to find one. I keep looking at the skid steer mounted sickle bar mower at skidsteersolutions.com but it's too expensive and won't handle the occasional bigger branch like a chain saw would.
> 
> Ken



One of these might keep the briars and branches under control. 
Just won't mulch it up for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4XvvyVGCKs&feature=related

Andy


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## ken45 (Mar 28, 2010)

redprospector said:


> Yep, you need a door made of lexan. Same stuff as "bullet proof glass" but my door is thinner. The cab dosen't get continuously pummeled with chunks, but the door dose take a good lick from a chunk once in a while. When I first got my machine it had 3/16" lexan in the door. After about a week of running it a chunk busted the lexan. it didn't come through, but it sure put a good "star burst" in the lexan. I replaced it with 1/4", when it's replaced again I think it will be 1/2".
> If you rent one don't let them send you out with a standard enclosed cab, or a plexi-glass door.
> An open cab can be enclosed with sheets of lexan, but without AC it gets a little warm in there.
> 
> Andy



Is the door necessary for a rotary cutter, or just for a shredder?

Looking at Bobcat's website, they just list the door as a requirement for a shredder, not for the rotary cutters.

Thanks,

Ken


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## catbuster (Mar 28, 2010)

ken45 said:


> Is the door necessary for a rotary cutter, or just for a shredder?
> 
> Looking at Bobcat's website, they just list the door as a requirement for a shredder, not for the rotary cutters.
> 
> ...



Rotatry cutters do a good job of keeping stuff under the deck,but I had a goood size stick go through mine a couple days ago. Yes, I said through the deck. So lexan is a f**king requirement.


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## WesternSaw (Mar 28, 2010)

*Ken45*

Hello Again Ken!
I guess I did not read your post that well about the need to clear high above ground as well.In my post to you I thought you were looking for something to take down brush at the sides of the trail that had been established,keeping the trail maintained after it was built.
The trimmer head that came with my Kombi accepts the circular blade that is used with the Stihl brushcutters.You do need the extra hardware that is for securing it to the head.
Lawrence


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## ken45 (Mar 29, 2010)

catbuster said:


> Rotatry cutters do a good job of keeping stuff under the deck,but I had a goood size stick go through mine a couple days ago. Yes, I said through the deck. So lexan is a f**king requirement.



A stick went through the 1/4" (or 3/16") steel deck of the rotary cutter? Wow!

I've bush hogged with tractors and DR mowers for years (including clearing trails in the woods) and never had anything like that happen.

Ken


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## redprospector (Mar 29, 2010)

ken45 said:


> Is the door necessary for a rotary cutter, or just for a shredder?
> 
> Looking at Bobcat's website, they just list the door as a requirement for a shredder, not for the rotary cutters.
> 
> ...



I haven't used a rotary cutter. But I'd rather have it and not need it than find out I need it and not have it. Those chunks can be deadly when they leave mine.

Andy


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## ithica (Mar 31, 2010)

OXTRAC !! Perfect for this type of job and terrain !


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## treedogg (Apr 16, 2010)

rubber tracks wear out fast and bogie wheels are never cheap but that oxtrac looks kinda cool....for the past couple of years i have wanted a sweco-small, has winch, blade, rippers and really fun to run....but expensive.


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## ithica (Apr 18, 2010)

I have 3000 hrs on my oxtrac, and have operated it in some pretty hairy terrain , the steel grousers show little to no sign of wear, and the rubber belts are in great shape !


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## ithica (Apr 18, 2010)

This guy made one heck of a trail making machine lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJcB1_EogXc


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## treedogg (Apr 18, 2010)

ithica said:


> I have 3000 hrs on my oxtrac, and have operated it in some pretty hairy terrain , the steel grousers show little to no sign of wear, and the rubber belts are in great shape !



what part of canada do you work in? what are your main uses(big or small diam)? how steep of terrain(degree) w/o a trail already made and will it pull stuff uphill? thanks for any info


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## NCPABill (Apr 21, 2010)

*Think smaller*

Your place looks similar to ours. I work a full-time job, have rentals, coach, etc. and I really think that a little time in the woods cutting firewood out of the way, followed by a rotary mower to maintain would work well. I spray the edge overgrowth (generic round-up, crossbow, tordon) about one 16 gal four wheeler sprayer per year to keep up with it, mow high over the stumps for a couple of years, seed clover for deer where there is enough light (looks like your would be good). My paths are not straight, but I have very little cost in this. If you're going with Woods, check out the heavier series. Numbers with more zeros are heavier, i.e.: 6 footer is 72, 720, 7200. 

Good luck,

Bill


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## headleyj (Apr 21, 2010)

NCPABill said:


> Your place looks similar to ours. I work a full-time job, have rentals, coach, etc. and I really think that a little time in the woods cutting firewood out of the way, followed by a rotary mower to maintain would work well. I spray the edge overgrowth (generic round-up, crossbow, tordon) about one 16 gal four wheeler sprayer per year to keep up with it, mow high over the stumps for a couple of years, seed clover for deer where there is enough light (looks like your would be good). My paths are not straight, but I have very little cost in this. If you're going with Woods, check out the heavier series. Numbers with more zeros are heavier, i.e.: 6 footer is 72, 720, 7200.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Bill




Thanks Bill,

That's basically what I'm doing man - I looked at the heavier BrushBulls - wow $2k I spent the $ on a new trailer instead  - neighbor has a lighter brushbull that's been used 1 or 2x....who knows.

Have a sprayer for the 4wheeler - want to get some booms on it - it's all about time though - 

I've started taking trees from people who doj't want them - ads on CL and such - time is at a minimum moreso than ever.


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## NCPABill (Apr 21, 2010)

*Sprayer booms*

For my sprayer, I just use the hand-held sprayer it came from for a lot of things. A little slower than a boom, but often quicker than putting the booms on, calibrating, etc. for small jobs. 

Good luck - for the deer management stuff, check out qdmaforums

Bill


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## NCPABill (Apr 22, 2010)

*All brushbulls are good*

_I looked at the heavier BrushBulls - wow $2k I spent the $ on a new trailer instead  - neighbor has a lighter brushbull that's been used 1 or 2x....who knows._

I had an old Woods, bought used and ran it 25 years with 200+ acres each year. Mostly grasses and weeds, occasionally some "rougher" material. When I went to look at new, the standard model is comparable (i.e. 72) I did end up getting a demonstrator model one step better (720), because that was the deal at the time. Ask around for the unit the dealer used around their place - this one was almost new - with a significant savings.

Good luck


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## headleyj (Apr 22, 2010)

NCPABill said:


> _I looked at the heavier BrushBulls - wow $2k I spent the $ on a new trailer instead  - neighbor has a lighter brushbull that's been used 1 or 2x....who knows._
> 
> I had an old Woods, bought used and ran it 25 years with 200+ acres each year. Mostly grasses and weeds, occasionally some "rougher" material. When I went to look at new, the standard model is comparable (i.e. 72) I did end up getting a demonstrator model one step better (720), because that was the deal at the time. Ask around for the unit the dealer used around their place - this one was almost new - with a significant savings.
> 
> Good luck



good idea - thanks! My neighbor has a 5footer that's been used once and he said he has no use for it - although a 6footer is preferred, I should/ need to talk with him first.


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## ithica (Apr 27, 2010)

treedogg said:


> what part of canada do you work in? what are your main uses(big or small diam)? how steep of terrain(degree) w/o a trail already made and will it pull stuff uphill? thanks for any info



In Ontario, we cut anything from 10/12 up to 40 , we have worked the machine on very steep slopes never had a problem, winched up backwords once on a very steep embankment about 60 feet high at about 60 degrees,

the machine pulls well uphill depending on what load you have on the back.

as for no trails this thing will go just about anywhere.

hope that helps


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## Junior_M (May 2, 2010)

you need a large skidsteer with a Fecon mower and a grapple.. 

I dont have any recent pics of our equipment but its like this guys and its what I'd recommend. 

http://www.************/showthread.php?t=261703


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