# outdoor wood boiler install



## woodyman666 (Sep 8, 2007)

Finally decided on a central boiler today so that part of this project is done... Now to the install. Should I side arm or plate exchanger for the hot water heater. Know that the pex piping is important but is there a cheaper yet effecient pipe thats cheaper then the 10.75 a foot central boiler stuff. Will need a heat exchanger for my garage that has no furnace now. House will be heated into the existing boiler then to zoned baseboard radiators. NEED YOUR ADVISE THANKS...


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## Butch(OH) (Sep 8, 2007)

Welcome to the OWB gang at AS, you will love the heat. For the pipe I used a product called Urecon that is sold by Woodmaster. It is not cheap either but I didn't thaw the ground above my pipes like some do. Urecon is like a 4" pipe with a 6" pipe surrounding it filled with foam. You then pull your Pex lines through it thus you can replace them without digging. If you are handy the garage heater can be had for just a few bucks. I made mine from a Geo Metro radiator, a fan from a discarded dehumidifier (both free)and a $20 line voltage thermostat. Adapting the radiator to the pex might be a challenge for some but I own a lathe and made the adapters myself. The best domestic water heater setup depends on your usage. I have a side arm and it doesnt quite keep up with heavy use like the wash running and going directly into showers for 5 people. It helps if I run the boiler temp up some. The supposed advantage to the side arm is it heats the entire water heater so it doesn't run at times of no water usage. This it does, two problems though. The sensor for the burner is in the bottom and thats where your cold incoming water goes. As soon as you draw water the burner or element will run unless you turn it way down. Then when it is turned way down if your side arm cant keep up you get luke warm water. A properly sized plate heater will heat all the water you can pump through it. Down side is that your water heater will still run to maintain temp when you are not using any water and if you turn it down you could have a tank full of luke warm water to run out after a long time of no usage. Realize that we go through a tanker full of hot water in my house every day. My gas bill this summer (water heater only) runs close to $80 since we don't run the boiler year around. Given the ups and downs of both I think the side arm is a better bet. Make sure you put in plenty of valves and install a by-passes for each item using heat. Yes it adds up the cost but I need both of my by-passes already and have forgotten the $100 worth of valves and fittings they required.


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## hockeypuck (Sep 9, 2007)

*Heat exchanger*

In my opinion you need a big plate exchanger. Baseboard heat needs a realatively high temperature to work properly. I bought a massive 50 plate exchanger. Your wood boiler dealer should be able to spec that out for you. The size of the exchanger will depend on the size of the circulating pump. Too big an exchanger for a small pump is no good either. You need turbulent flow through the exchanger to squeeze all the heat out of the water.

As far as them underground pipe, buy the best you can afford. I bought a Woodmaster boiler but went to the central boiler dealer to get the pex pipe encased in foam and black pvc (all one unit). I am glad I did. Most of the horror stories that you hear about boilers running constantly and using 20 chords of wood is due to improper installation. If ground water fills up the corregated plastic pipe, you are in trouble. The Pex stuff that central boiler sells will not do that if you seal the ends. I say spend the money now and use less wood later.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 9, 2007)

I Will Definately Need Alot Of Hot Water Theres A Jacuzzi Tub Upstairs Three Of Us Now And A New Little Arborist In The Oven. I Dont Understand Though Why The H2o Heater Runs With The Exchanger. Cant You Run An Extra Thermostat That You Manually Turn The Electric H20 Heater Down So It Wont Kick On? With The Pipes I Like The Orecon Stuff So You Would Never Have To Dig Again If There Was A Problem. Im Also Looking For A Safeguard Against Line Freezing And Seems As If The Orecon Stuff Leaves You Room For A Inline Electric Heat Line. How Do They Safeguard The Thermo Pex? Looking For A Way To Take A Vacation Without A Furnace Sitter.


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## stonykill (Sep 9, 2007)

*plate exchanger for hot water*

I looked into both the side arm and the plate exchanger. I decided on the plate exchanger and couldn't be happier. I just use my existing electric hot water heater as a storage tank. The more hot water you use, the better with this system. Enjoy your boiler and welcome. Where in NY. I'm near the mass border.


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## hockeypuck (Sep 9, 2007)

woodyman666 said:


> I Will Definately Need Alot Of Hot Water Theres A Jacuzzi Tub Upstairs Three Of Us Now And A New Little Arborist In The Oven. I Dont Understand Though Why The H2o Heater Runs With The Exchanger. Cant You Run An Extra Thermostat That You Manually Turn The Electric H20 Heater Down So It Wont Kick On? With The Pipes I Like The Orecon Stuff So You Would Never Have To Dig Again If There Was A Problem. Im Also Looking For A Safeguard Against Line Freezing And Seems As If The Orecon Stuff Leaves You Room For A Inline Electric Heat Line. How Do They Safeguard The Thermo Pex? Looking For A Way To Take A Vacation Without A Furnace Sitter.



Put an air nozzel on the fill valve and blow them out after you drain the system. screw the electric line heat. The only way I would go through that trouble is if you had the boiler in a heated outdoor space.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 9, 2007)

STONYKILL IM BETWEEN HONEOYE LAKE AND CANANDAIGUA LAKE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES FROM BRISTOL MTN. SKI RESORT. So the plate exchanger will run alot to keep up with hot water or does your hot water keep it hot awhile. I dont want to be burning a ton of wood. What square foot do you heat and what amt. of wood do you use? I was under the impression that I would leave the water in the boiler for a long time. Hockey are you talking about emptying the whole thing or using a shutoff valve at the boiler and only emptying lines? As per the lines there is stuff on ebay that is triple and quadruple wraped. The triple claims r14 and only losing like 3 degrees in 100ft. Is this legit. Its about 65 ft to both my garage and my house so at 10 a foot for central ill be getting a third job... If I used the ebay stuff couldnt I lay it over gravel then cover with saw dust and plastic wrap to avoid any water issues?


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## leon (Sep 9, 2007)

*owb etc.*



woodyman666 said:


> Finally decided on a central boiler today so that part of this project is done... Now to the install. Should I side arm or plate exchanger for the hot water heater. Know that the pex piping is important but is there a cheaper yet effecient pipe thats cheaper then the 10.75 a foot central boiler stuff. Will need a heat exchanger for my garage that has no furnace now. House will be heated into the existing boiler then to zoned baseboard radiators. NEED YOUR ADVISE THANKS...



If you have not spent the money on a central please look at the lil albert, big albert or the boss man models of the 

sequoyah owb (www.wdheat.com)

they can burn coal, earcorn, and fire wood and all three units are fully lined with fire brick from top to bottom which eliminates boiling corrosion with the steel-the fire brick keeps the heat and holds it to maintain temperatures and with the down draft boilers theire is no smoke so the neighbors will not be upset-if you have any close by that is.

The owner- rick is very helpfull and very kowledgeable regaring owb and heating systems.

The three boilers I mentioned have ash collecting boxes that slide out from under the shaker grates to help empty the ashes and it is very convenient. 

there are also videos of the boilers burning showing how hot and clean the burnn is with the down draft burner.
The sequoyahs will make 190 plus water temps-I will be using one to heat my forewood kiln.



The local dealer is "red rock heating source"1-315-347-3020;dave is the owner etc.


leon


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## Butch(OH) (Sep 9, 2007)

woodyman666 said:


> I Will Definately Need Alot Of Hot Water Theres A Jacuzzi Tub Upstairs Three Of Us Now And A New Little Arborist In The Oven. I Dont Understand Though Why The H2o Heater Runs With The Exchanger. Cant You Run An Extra Thermostat That You Manually Turn The Electric H20 Heater Down So It Wont Kick On? With The Pipes I Like The Orecon Stuff So You Would Never Have To Dig Again If There Was A Problem. Im Also Looking For A Safeguard Against Line Freezing And Seems As If The Orecon Stuff Leaves You Room For A Inline Electric Heat Line. How Do They Safeguard The Thermo Pex? Looking For A Way To Take A Vacation Without A Furnace Sitter.



The water heater burner coming on was a mystery to me also until I was filled in on what goes on inside of one. Let me give it another try here.
The side arm works by thermosyphon. Heating the water within causes it to rise and flow in the top of the tank while colder water is drawn from the bottom of the tank. This continues until the tank reaches the boiler circulating temp. When you draw some hot water the internal piping in the water heater is such that the cold water is introduced at the bottom, right where your aqua-stat is for the water heater. (Realize that at this time the temp in your water heater is not equal but layered, hot on top, colder on the bottom, this I did not know before.) The aqua-stat does its job and turns on the water heater until it reaches the high limit. On mine, the water heater ran every time we drew hot water even with the side arm turned on and 180 degree water coming out the top. Turning the water temp down will solve that but then the burner cant help the side arm keep up when you need it to. The plate heater only heats water when you draw it so the water heater can, and will cool down and run during times of no usage.


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## rx7145 (Sep 9, 2007)

Of you have hard water you must use a "side arm" heat exchanger. I pluged my flat plate up on one month. The best hot water exchanger is a larger flat plate with a zone pump power by a aquastat on the bottom of the hot water tank. This is what I want to do next on my system.

What size CB did you get? 

I have a 4436 and love it. (bought new in 05)

Get the good pipe $11+ a foot. I did't want to eather; but melting snow is not fun. I had a friend that had to dig his lines back up because the heat loss was to much.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 9, 2007)

I got a 5036. Does cb chande there model #'s ever year? I saw one on ebay used that I didnt have the #in my brochure and neither is yours. Mine is a 250000btu. So it looks like side arm for me. When you buy one does it come with nice instructions? The dealer told me that to fill the boiler from inside the hookup would be on the side arm is that correct? How much was everyones total for installs?


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## ktm250rider (Sep 9, 2007)

Woody
what size house are you heating? Ive had one dealer tell me i need the 6048 and another tell me the 5036 will work fine. CB literature shows the 5036 should work.


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## rx7145 (Sep 9, 2007)

woodyman666 said:


> I got a 5036. Does cb chande there model #'s ever year? I saw one on ebay used that I didnt have the #in my brochure and neither is yours. Mine is a 250000btu. So it looks like side arm for me. When you buy one does it come with nice instructions? The dealer told me that to fill the boiler from inside the hookup would be on the side arm is that correct? How much was everyones total for installs?



Just about. Yes they changed them in 06'. You have the same size as I do the 250,000 btu unit. My total cost was about 7k and counting....

Instructions do come but you will learn so much that is not in the book. I sure did.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 10, 2007)

ktm my house is 3,000sf and garage is about 1400. my existing boiler is 112,500btu so the outdoor boiler is technically double the btu. I know thats fairly relative but the dealer said I would be fine with the 5036. The garage I only care to be about 50degrees or so unless im out there. I just dont like my corvette hanging out all winter at 20 degrees or less.. Has anyone done the garage or a shop at a lower temp than house? Im hoping that the thermostat in the garage will keep the pump running and keep the temp in that area without adding alot to my wood consumption? Any thoughts? What size btu rated heater should I get for the garage.? As to piping has anyone had experience with the ebay stuff? Theres a wirsboro quad wrap stuff that claims r18 and if frozen would expand but not break or crack? Its sold by freeheat4u which is a heatmore dealer Believe it was about $6 a foot or so. They have a gaurantee that if it freezes and its there fault they ship you free replacement. If it was your fault ie pump fail then you would return the pipe when done but I guess you would just buy it. If worse came to worse I have my old furnace as a backup. My brain is spinning with all this to think about


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## ktm250rider (Sep 11, 2007)

Wirsbo is just one manufacture of PEX piping. PEX is crosslinked polyethylene. Just about all PEX pipe will expand rather than burst when frozen. If its kinked, it can be reheated and will take its cylindrical shape. All the good manufactures have their pipes ASTM rated and its stamped right on the side. Thats the best way to compare pipes. 6 bucks a foot sounds pretty cheap. I think a foam encased piping would give the best performance and resitance to ground water contact.

My house is 4000 plus the garage of about 900. Ill have to check my boiler, but I dont think it was over 250k btus. Im going to be heating the garage by radiant so I cant help you with that. But I do plan on running the garage at about 50 with just a seperate zone thermostat.

How much fuel (oil, propane NG) did you use last year?


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## Butch(OH) (Sep 11, 2007)

woodyman666 said:


> ktm my house is 3,000sf and garage is about 1400. my existing boiler is 112,500btu so the outdoor boiler is technically double the btu. I know thats fairly relative but the dealer said I would be fine with the 5036. The garage I only care to be about 50degrees or so unless im out there. I just dont like my corvette hanging out all winter at 20 degrees or less.. Has anyone done the garage or a shop at a lower temp than house? Im hoping that the thermostat in the garage will keep the pump running and keep the temp in that area without adding alot to my wood consumption? Any thoughts? What size btu rated heater should I get for the garage.? As to piping has anyone had experience with the ebay stuff? Theres a wirsboro quad wrap stuff that claims r18 and if frozen would expand but not break or crack? Its sold by freeheat4u which is a heatmore dealer Believe it was about $6 a foot or so. They have a gaurantee that if it freezes and its there fault they ship you free replacement. If it was your fault ie pump fail then you would return the pipe when done but I guess you would just buy it. If worse came to worse I have my old furnace as a backup. My brain is spinning with all this to think about



Stop the brain spin it's not all that complicated:hmm3grin2orange: 

Here is how it works. The circulating pump(s) run all the time and each heating zone carries its own thermostat. I ran two loops, one for the shop and one for the house at the recommendation of my OWB supplier. Your stove supplier should be able to tell you if you need two loops or one. If not I am sure that someone at Central Boiler can tell you. Anyway once that is settled you have a thermosat in the garage, set it where you want it. It has no effect on the house what so ever. 

The dealers do a good job of BSing folks and there is folklore on the internet about wood usage but there is no magic in a OWB,, or any other heat. The BTU's you pull from the OWB must be replaced aka burn wood. As an example my boiler will run 24 hours on two pieces of split wood when all I am doing is heating the domestic water in earlyfall/late spring. When the house needs some heat it burns more and more again when the shop needs heat. I burned a lot of wood when it got down to zero last February and stayed there but the shop was 70 and the house was 74, all day and night.

Put the thermostat in the shop where you can stand temp, and the additional wood usage.


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## MS-310 (Sep 11, 2007)

Butch(OH) said:


> Stop the brain spin it's not all that complicated:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Here is how it works. The circulating pump(s) run all the time and each heating zone carries its own thermostat. I ran two loops, one for the shop and one for the house at the recommendation of my OWB supplier. Your stove supplier should be able to tell you if you need two loops or one. If not I am sure that someone at Central Boiler can tell you. Anyway once that is settled you have a thermosat in the garage, set it where you want it. It has no effect on the house what so ever.
> 
> ...





+1 (some dealers )


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## woodyman666 (Sep 12, 2007)

went thru 856 gallons lp last year and wife yelled alot to turn the boiler back on. Went thru 1300 or so year before when we(my wife) wanted heat. However with new baby on the way want house nice and toasty with no indoor fires.. Also ran stupid pellet stove both years. 2k lbs a year of pellets. Its messy and wont run it when im not home. Going to pull out the baseboard electric that is in lower level and run water baseboards. Butch I was just wondering if the garage at 50 would save enough wood to be worth using that temp. I know you can run two temps with thermostats. When you say two loops you mean two pumps right. Its a detached garage so that is the plan. Thats why I am so worried about the pex cost. Also was thinking of detaching the lines to the garage heater during summer and extending with plain pex just underground to heat the hot tub out back. Figure that the savings of running it on the boiler only in the summer would be better than the cost of insulated stuff all the way to boiler(200ft). So ill run domestic water and tub in summer. So its a toss up on sidearm vs. plate im leaning towards plate I guess. Id rather use a bit more wood and have alot of hot water. Did anyone have water delivered to fill the boiler? Any idea on cost? Would like to stay away from well water for initial fill.


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## bowtechmadman (Sep 12, 2007)

Run glycol in your system if you don't want to be tied to your system constantly. This will allow you to shut it down and not worry about freezing.
I have a hot water store tank runs on a seperate zone...water is circulated w/in the tank heating the hot water. No issues w/ having enough hot water.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 16, 2007)

Not much of an electrician either. When you get a backup generator if power goes out are you tieing it into junction box inside or are you setting it up at the boiler. side note, Been out sawing in the rain and shine getting wood for the winter. Took down a petrified standing beech yesterday. Had to stop in the middle and sharpen, should heat nicely. If the pex freezes underground will the bolier pushing hot water towards it thaw it or is it a wait till spring thing? Also if you go with central boilers pex then you are running power out to the boiler outside of any piping. Do you just run underground wire or do you have to put it in a pvc condiut?


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## stonykill (Sep 16, 2007)

woodyman666 said:


> Not much of an electrician either. When you get a backup generator if power goes out are you tieing it into junction box inside or are you setting it up at the boiler. side note, Been out sawing in the rain and shine getting wood for the winter. Took down a petrified standing beech yesterday. Had to stop in the middle and sharpen, should heat nicely. If the pex freezes underground will the bolier pushing hot water towards it thaw it or is it a wait till spring thing? Also if you go with central boilers pex then you are running power out to the boiler outside of any piping. Do you just run underground wire or do you have to put it in a pvc condiut?




I hook my boiler directly up to a generator. Someday I'll have the house wired for the generator, but for right now, I have underground cable running from the generator shed to the boiler. When the power goes out I spend a few minutes changing over to the generator, no big deal. 

Beech is a pita to cut, split etc, but burns great.

Its simple, always run your circulators so the pex never freezes. I would have to imagine that if it freezes the boiler isn't going to thaw it, but I wouldn't know as mine never froze. 

I just ran underground cable to my boiler, no pvc, altho its probably not a bad idea.


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## hockeypuck (Sep 16, 2007)

*pvc conduit*

I am an electrician, and I set my power in 1 " conduit. I would do that incase you need to pull control lines later for an add on gadget. I am already thinking about a change that would require control lines and a "little" modification. IMHO I would not put anti freeze in the lines. I reduces heat transfer by at least 20 percent. That is the trade off for having a care free boiler. It is also expensive. Plan on spending another 500 to 700 bucks. 1" pvc only costs .20 cents a foot.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 26, 2007)

so if you go on a vacation and just leave your pumps running the water will not freeze. The plate exchanger will help reverse heat the water enough? It gets to zero here but rarely does it stay zero or go below zero. Hate to not take a free stay at my fatherlaws and golf because I need to babay sit the furnace.


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## bowtechmadman (Sep 26, 2007)

I would be more concerned w/ the pipes breaking coming out of the boiler when it is down in the winter rather than the PEX that is buried underground. Keeping the pump/pumps running should prevent freezing. I errored on the side of caution and maintain glycol in the system to allow me to shut the system down when I will be gone.


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## woodyman666 (Sep 26, 2007)

perhaps running a short amount of electric heater line where the pipes arent undertground would safe me. I originaly thought of all the way to the house but with foam insulated pex it is not possible to add the line though. After you come out of the ground your pex lines are exposed with no insulation? So I would be running a heater element just inside the access door I guess. Everyone must be in the same boat then so cb should be able to tell me what they do. What size plate exchanger and volume pump should I run for the house loop. All radiant baseboard for a 3000s.f house


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## bowtechmadman (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm also running radiant baseboard heat approx. 3200 sq. ft., my plate exchanger is 10.2 sq. ft. I've had no issue maintaining 75 all winter long here in michigan also heating my water (hot water store tank, seperate zone on my hot water system).
You can run the PEX inside the insulation as far as you wish...I bring mine out of the ground through a short crawl space then just the pex once inside my basement.
I'd definately suggest glycol in the system to prevent freezing rather than electric heat tape...bigger investment up front but long term cost of the heat tape (and the danger of fire) wouldn't be worth it to me.
Just my thoughts, good luck!


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## woodyman666 (Oct 3, 2007)

when yo say 10.2 exchanger what is that in plate sizes? The only way i have seen them on ebay or such was rated by plate numbers. Like a sixty or seventy plate exchanger?


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## MS-310 (Oct 4, 2007)

I dont want to but in here but I will!

If you are leaving your house for more then a day, I think you will still use the gas boiler to heat the house, right? Well if you use the gas boiler to heat the house then you will be reversing what you would be doing when your home.....the gas boiler will heat the plate heater and then heat the woodboiler so you wont have to worrie about freezing the outside wood boiler.
(rember your pump on the OWB is running all the time) 
No glyco needed! only if you gas boiler doesnt work when your gone!

If you need more help PLS call me

269-838-2011

my name is Jack

it seems your kinda confused on a really easy problem


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## woodyman666 (Oct 12, 2007)

by all means butt in the more help the merrier. I have read in a few places people with horror stories on freezing. What a relieve to here it from you guys not to worry. Would definately leave the regular furnace going when out on vacation or you would be wooried about indoor pipes too. Any one have experience with a wraparound pump next to there original boiler? My central bolier install manual recomends it. Is it worth it? Also my boiler is uphill from the house and the manual shows different locations for pumps. I would want the pump inside right? So would that mean there would be no pump at the outside furnace or one in both spots?..


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## kamhillbilly (Oct 14, 2007)

woodyman666 said:


> so if you go on a vacation and just leave your pumps running the water will not freeze. The plate exchanger will help reverse heat the water enough? It gets to zero here but rarely does it stay zero or go below zero. Hate to not take a free stay at my fatherlaws and golf because I need to babay sit the furnace.


My niegbor leaves for two weeks every winter he just puts a light bulb (trouble light) in stove and leaves pumps running never had a problem with freezing .His line are well insulated but not that deep due to soil (bed rock) conditions also just runs water no antifreeze.


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## keith hart (Oct 1, 2014)

stonykill said:


> *plate exchanger for hot water*
> 
> I looked into both the side arm and the plate exchanger. I decided on the plate exchanger and couldn't be happier. I just use my existing electric hot water heater as a storage tank. The more hot water you use, the better with this system. Enjoy your boiler and welcome. Where in NY. I'm near the mass border.


 
question: I just install my CB 5036, I have heat but no hot water, I am using the water to water heat exchanger, I guess this is the side arm attached to the existing water heater, any suggestions, the heat is coming in fine, just trying to get the hot water?


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## keith hart (Oct 1, 2014)

Hello, I have a newly installed CB 5036, have heat, no hot water, any suggestions?


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## keith hart (Oct 1, 2014)

FYI: I am using the forced air model installation, air to air heat exchanger and the water to water heat exchanger attached to my existing water heater, I followed the installation diagram, the hot supply going to the bottom of the water to water heat exchanger on the cold side of the water heater, thru the hot side of the heat exchanger, looping thru the cold side of the heat exchanger and returning to the stove.

heating the entire 3000 sq ft home with no problem, would be nice to get the hot water coming in, any suggestions are welcomed


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## keith hart (Oct 1, 2014)

Butch(OH) said:


> Welcome to the OWB gang at AS, you will love the heat. For the pipe I used a product called Urecon that is sold by Woodmaster. It is not cheap either but I didn't thaw the ground above my pipes like some do. Urecon is like a 4" pipe with a 6" pipe surrounding it filled with foam. You then pull your Pex lines through it thus you can replace them without digging. If you are handy the garage heater can be had for just a few bucks. I made mine from a Geo Metro radiator, a fan from a discarded dehumidifier (both free)and a $20 line voltage thermostat. Adapting the radiator to the pex might be a challenge for some but I own a lathe and made the adapters myself. The best domestic water heater setup depends on your usage. I have a side arm and it doesnt quite keep up with heavy use like the wash running and going directly into showers for 5 people. It helps if I run the boiler temp up some. The supposed advantage to the side arm is it heats the entire water heater so it doesn't run at times of no water usage. This it does, two problems though. The sensor for the burner is in the bottom and thats where your cold incoming water goes. As soon as you draw water the burner or element will run unless you turn it way down. Then when it is turned way down if your side arm cant keep up you get luke warm water. A properly sized plate heater will heat all the water you can pump through it. Down side is that your water heater will still run to maintain temp when you are not using any water and if you turn it down you could have a tank full of luke warm water to run out after a long time of no usage. Realize that we go through a tanker full of hot water in my house every day. My gas bill this summer (water heater only) runs close to $80 since we don't run the boiler year around. Given the ups and downs of both I think the side arm is a better bet. Make sure you put in plenty of valves and install a by-passes for each item using heat. Yes it adds up the cost but I need both of my by-passes already and have forgotten the $100 worth of valves and fittings they required.


 
Hello, I am interested in your install plan, I also have many valves installed, but not getting hot water, I was thinking my existing water heater was not supposed to be burning gas to heat the water, right now I am not getting hot water thru the wood stove heating source, any suggestions?


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## cantoo (Oct 1, 2014)

Keith, take some pictures if you can, it will help the guys here that know how to help you. Could be lots of things but it's usually the simple one.


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## Poston5 (Oct 1, 2014)

Quit worrying about freezing lines. I work for an excavation contractor and we dig all winter. We rarely see the ground frozen more that about 8 to 12 inches deep (Ohio). Grass and sod is a great insulator. Just get a good line set that fits your budget. The lines at the pump in your stove will freeze before the line set does below grade. Keep it circulating when your gone and just add a bypass before your furnace to keep the water from passing through your heat exchanger. Make sure if you are installing pex leave room for it to expand and contract, my 115 foot run will expand about 1 foot when it's hot.


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## mga (Oct 2, 2014)

your town, bristol ny, requires a permit to install an OWB. you can ask many questions here, but your town most likely has guidelines on the installation.

not saying you can't install without a permit, but, i'd hate to see you go thru the expense only to have them tell you it might be wrong and your homeowners insurance might have a different opinion if some thing were to go wrong.


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## 1idrod (Oct 3, 2014)

I have to ask why some of you put your water to water heat exchanger going into your hot water heater? Seems your keeping 40+ gallons heated for no reason. Just curious. I installed mine on the exit side and have yet to run out of hot water even two showers going on a 10 plate.


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