# Stihl 261 C-M Intermittent Hot Start Issue



## Bl8tant (Apr 19, 2014)

So 3 weeks ago I sold most of my saws and bought a new 261 C-M. The day I bought it, I headed straight to the woods and put it to work. By the end of the day I was so frustrated and disappointed. Here's the deal:
1) First start of the day (cold) it fires up with one or two pulls. Runs great. 
2) Shut it off hot and wait more than a minute or two to re-start and it WILL NOT START. Takes 15-20 pulls and usually have to hold throttle wide open and drop start it.
3) If you re-start immediately (when hot) it's 50/50. It either starts on one pull or it refuses to start.
4) Once re-started it won't take throttle and stalls. Takes several cycles and eventually it takes off and runs fine.

I took it back to dealer and they kept it for a week. When I picked it up they said everything tested fine (he even bought the $500 Stihl carb tester that interfaces with a computer). They basically cleaned the carb and replaced the spark plug and gave it back. I took her to the woods and guess what - SAME ISSUE. When cold it starts fine. Once hot, you never know if it's going to take one pull or 50. And don't even think about using the compression release when hot.....guaranteed not to start. Once you get it going it runs great.

Obviously I'm taking it back to the dealer again. Just wondering what my options are ? Does Stihl ever "lemon-law" a saw ? Even if they claim they fixed it, my confidence in this saw is shot. I think they should give me a different saw off the shelf, but I bet that's not going to happen. I've bought over $2500 worth of saws, weedeaters, and blowers from this dealer. If they don't make this right.....well I am not gonna be happy.

What can I do ? How many times do I have to keep taking it back before someone says "dud saw". What would you do ? I'm obviously a Stihl fan and have no desire to change brands (none around here anyways).


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## porsche965 (Apr 19, 2014)

For that kind of hassle my Dealer has loaner saws at no charge to keep you making wood. I have "C" saws and they run great. Give the Dealer another shot, tell him to ride along where you are cutting and let him experience it for himself if possible.


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## MustangMike (Apr 20, 2014)

When the saw is hot, you have it in Run or Start? When hot, just leave it on run and give it a pull.


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## rmh3481 (Apr 20, 2014)

Make sure the tank vent is working correctly. If it doesnt come around after that, maybe ask if they can put a regular carb on it?


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## MustangMike (Apr 20, 2014)

I would not give up M-Tronic, I would make them "Make it Work".


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## sunfish (Apr 20, 2014)

Hot start issue with a Stihl C-M? Say it ain't so...


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## MustangMike (Apr 20, 2014)

I have not encountered it, but have seen a few posters that have. When the saw is hot, you can easily start it in the "Run" position. I could be wrong, but I think they may be using the "Start" position when the saw is still hot.

But who knows, there could be a problem, just like there was with another make (seems to be worked out now, but no official announcement).


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## XSKIER (Apr 20, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Hot start issue with a Stihl C-M? Say it ain't so...



Sure didn't take long for the huky lovers to get a suggestion posted. It's pretty tough to diagnose your saw over the Internet, but it needs to be treated like any other small engine, before "buying the $500 cable and plugging her in". Spark, compression, and fuel are still necessary for even an M-Tronic to run.


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## CedarRock (Apr 20, 2014)

rmh3481 said:


> Make sure the tank vent is working correctly. If it doesnt come around after that, maybe ask if they can put a regular carb on it?



I had this problem and it was the vent. Try opening the gas cap and try restart.


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## dl5205 (Apr 20, 2014)

I miss THall and LakeSideAndy...


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Apr 20, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Hot start issue with a Stihl C-M? Say it ain't so...


 yes you are right, they indeed are NOT flawless like the 550/562xp's


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## z71mike (Apr 20, 2014)

I like my carb screwdriver


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## cre10 (Apr 20, 2014)

This is very interesting. My 261C is doing the same.


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## sunfish (Apr 20, 2014)

STIHLTHEDEERE said:


> yes you are right, they indeed are NOT flawless like the 550/562xp's


Nothing is flawless... But some here feel their Stihl saws are.


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## KG441c (Apr 20, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Nothing is flawless... But some here feel their Stihl saws are.


Funny u bash Stihl!! lol! My best friend has a ported 660 and decided he would go buy a 372xpw but when he got there and picked it up his exact words were, " that crap felt like a rattling gumball machine with plastic wrapped around it! " He said he settled his urge for that idea and wont have another! Lol! I cant speak for the newer Huskies as I have only ran older ones but wouldnt mind running one but of course it would be Autotune


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## KG441c (Apr 20, 2014)

To the OP, make sure its been recalibrated. Also Stihl has a return policy but if ur dealer isnt goinh to fix it or replace it just call Stihl tech support urself and tell them ur not satisified and Im sure they will fix u up


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## sunfish (Apr 20, 2014)

KG441c said:


> Funny u bash Stihl!! lol! My best friend has a ported 660 and decided he would go buy a 372xpw but when he got there and picked it up his exact words were, " that crap felt like a rattling gumball machine with plastic wrapped around it! " He said he settled his urge for that idea and wont have another! Lol! I cant speak for the newer Huskies as I have only ran older ones but wouldnt mind running one but of course it would be Autotune


I'm not bashing Stihl at all? Just poking at some of the Stihl heads that think their saws are flawless... 
But if you want to Bash Huskys, I don't care much...


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## KG441c (Apr 20, 2014)

KG441c said:


> To the OP, make sure its been recalibrated





sunfish said:


> I'm not bashing Stihl at all? Just poking at some of the Stihl heads that think their saw are flawless..r
> But if you want to Bash Huskys, I don't care much...


Not bashing Husk at all either !!! No beer for me though Its Easter!!!! Us Southern Baptist dont believe in drinking!! Oh heck!! Theres a another thread all together!! Lol! Down here we believe in God and Stihls!! Lol


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## HuskStihl (Apr 20, 2014)

I think the reason the more militant huskiphiles showed up is that they have heard over and over "ever hear of an m-tronic issue?" 
Stihl/Husky is the same as the Mercedes/BMW. Mercedes are generally more expensive, better built, and heavier, but they're both nice cars. Pick u'r poison, or don't, and like/own both brands. Either way, you'll just be thrilled they're not ****in Echo's. (Sorry mountainlake, that was just a joke)


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## Bl8tant (Apr 20, 2014)

OP here......Definitely hoped this would not turn into a brand bash, but I still wanted some input, so I posted anyways. Sorry fellow Stihl lovers 

Anyways....To reply to a few suggestions/comments above:
The dealer is a very knowledgeable mechanic and has the highest Stihl certification. I trust his troubleshooting. I do a lot of saw work for folks myself, so I feel his pain trying to fix an intermittent issue.
They definitely checked comp, vent function, and vac/press on the crankcase before ordering the special tool to test the M-tronic carb (which also checked out ok by the tester). They also explained the recalibration to me. I wish I had asked them to write down the procedure, but maybe you have to "clear" the processor before you can do the calibration ????
I'm not convinced that the issue is truly M-tronic related. Seems more like a basic "mechanical" carb issue (acts a lot like vapor lock). It only had one "spell" today, but that was enough for me. 

Definitely going to take it back again. They're going to wear out the screws taking it apart and putting it together so many times.


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## Mastermind (Apr 20, 2014)

dl5205 said:


> I miss THall and LakeSideAndy...



There's a reason those guys ain't here anymore......one too many oil threads. 

I figure there's a little trash or water, or trashy water hanging out in the carb inlet screen. 

Water won't pass like fuel will.....causes all sorts of weird stuff.


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## KG441c (Apr 20, 2014)

Bl8tant said:


> OP here......Definitely hoped this would not turn into a brand bash, but I still wanted some input, so I posted anyways. Sorry fellow Stihl lovers
> 
> Anyways....To reply to a few suggestions/comments above:
> The dealer is a very knowledgeable mechanic and has the highest Stihl certification. I trust his troubleshooting. I do a lot of saw work for folks myself, so I feel his pain trying to fix an intermittent issue.
> ...


To recalibrate take the bar and chain off then move master control lever to start position and crank and let idle for a minute or so without touching throttle then move control lever all the way to off position. Reinstall b/c and go make several full cuts.


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## KG441c (Apr 20, 2014)

Dont think it will be a recalibration issue but u should definetely listen to Mastermind and start there on the carb inlet


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## MustangMike (Apr 20, 2014)

Best of luck resolving your problem, it sucks when something does not perform as it should.


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## AKDoug (Apr 21, 2014)

I agree with MM... they are still a normal carburetor behind that auto adjustment.


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## Bl8tant (Apr 22, 2014)

I took it back to the dealer today. While I was there he got on the phone with a regional tech rep from Stihl. Based on their conversation, the carburetor body is being replaced. Since everything bench tests OK, their only option was to replace the part they felt was most likely causing my issue (kinda like an educated "throwing parts at it").

We shall see......


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## Mastermind (Apr 22, 2014)

What have they said about it being a ported saw?


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## MustangMike (Apr 22, 2014)

Good luck with it. From what I have read (I have not encountered the problem) some people have had better luck staring it by not using the compression relief. Since my 044 never had one, I often don't use it myself on my 362 C-M.

I guess that is one way to clean the carb! Also, if you have not done it, you may want to dump the fuel and replace before using that new carb.


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## windthrown (Apr 22, 2014)

Gee, all these guys here saying that Mtronic is the best thing ever, and old school adjustable carb saws being shyte and all...

I will see your Mtronic and raise you one orange screwdriver.

As for Andy, he decided he was spending too much time here. I can see his point, as people here have PM'd me of late wanting me to call them to solve saw problems. I am not an on-call mechanic, thanks. I do not know what happened to Tommy Hall.

As for the OP, just keep taking it back to the dealer for fixing. It is their problem under warranty. Sounds like a vapor lock or gas line issue to me. Gas/carb gets hot, causes air bubble in gas line or carb someplace. My 025 saws used to do that a lot. Clogged gas tank vents can also cause similar problems (creates a vacuum as the tank drains).


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## AKDoug (Apr 24, 2014)

I just got info from my Stihl tech guy. He says to always start an M-Tronic in the lower cold start position. This is very hard to learn for all of us that NEVER use the choke in a warm saw.


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## KG441c (Apr 24, 2014)

AKDoug said:


> I just got info from my Stihl tech guy. He says to always start an M-Tronic in the lower cold start position. This is very hard to learn for all of us that NEVER use the choke in a warm saw.


Thanks Doug! Good info


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## MustangMike (Apr 24, 2014)

I have not been doing that KG, have you?


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## Mastermind (Apr 24, 2014)

That's how I start how my M-Tronic saws.....


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## Mastermind (Apr 24, 2014)

The 441 is the easiest starting saw I own.


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## KG441c (Apr 24, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> I have not been doing that KG, have you?


Mustang I havent noticed either of my c models having starting issues but seems to me if if didnt crank in the run position that someone would just rechoke and start over?


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## MustangMike (Apr 24, 2014)

That is what I do, but if AK and MasterMind say different, I will have to re think my procedure and give that a try.

Does any harm come from using run instead of start when the saw is warm?

I haven't noticed any problems, never had a starting problem with it.


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## KG441c (Apr 24, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> That is what I do, but if AK and MasterMind say different, I will have to re think my procedure and give that a try.
> 
> Does any harm come from using run instead of start when the saw is warm?
> 
> I haven't noticed any problems, never had a starting problem with it.


I agree. If Mastermind says start in choke thats what Ill do


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## MustangMike (Apr 24, 2014)

I interpreted this to mean that is was OK to start a warm saw from the "Run" position.

"After the saw is turned off, the control lever immediately moves back into the operating position. Meaning the tool, once warmed up, can be restarted any time."


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## KG441c (Apr 24, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> I interpreted this to mean that is was OK to start a warm saw from the "Run" position.
> 
> "After the saw is turned off, the control lever immediately moves back into the operating position. Meaning the tool, once warmed up, can be restarted any time."


My 441c is 3 position off/run/start but my 362c is momentary off/run/start


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## MustangMike (Apr 24, 2014)

OK, That comment was from 362 C literature. Maybe they are different. I've never had any starting issues, have you?

Although I do see they recommend letting the saw idle a little before shutting it down to cool the components.


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## KG441c (Apr 24, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> OK, That comment was from 362 C literature. Maybe they are different. I've never had any starting issues, have you?
> 
> Although I do see they recommend letting the saw idle a little before shutting it down to cool the components.


Havent had any starting issues but it would make sense to startin the choke position since u do calibrate and let it idle for approx. 90sec in the choke position


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## AKDoug (Apr 25, 2014)

In run the choke position sensor is deactivated. In the start (choke) position, the sensor is in play and will make an adjustment based on what the saw needs.


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

Just made a discovery in my 441c manual. It has 4 positions on master control lever, 1)off 2)run 3)warm start 4)cold start


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## Knobby57 (Apr 25, 2014)

KG441c said:


> Just made a discovery in my 441c manual. It has 4 positions on master control lever, 1)off 2)run 3)warm start 4)cold start




I'll be dipped I can't find that what page is it on


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> I'll be dipped I can't find that what page is it on
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


pg 38


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## Knobby57 (Apr 25, 2014)

KG441c said:


> pg 38



Page 38 in my book is oil pump adjustment 


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## XSKIER (Apr 25, 2014)

Uhh... do you mean this one?


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Page 38 in my book is oil pump adjustment
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Uhh... do you mean this one?


Nope. My 441c is different from yours


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## XSKIER (Apr 25, 2014)

Or this one?


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## Knobby57 (Apr 25, 2014)

3 position for m tronic 4 for the old school carbatater model 


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## XSKIER (Apr 25, 2014)

Do you have a MS 441 C-Q MAGNUM?


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Or this one?


Nope. My 362c is like that. 3 position. My 441c has 4 posituons including a warm start position


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Do you have a MS 441 C-Q MAGNUM?


No.441cm


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## XSKIER (Apr 25, 2014)

KG441c said:


> Nope. My 362c is like that. 3 position. My 441c has 4 posituons including a warm start position



Do you mean like this?


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## Knobby57 (Apr 25, 2014)

Ok that's it . I want to see a photo . Either you don't have a m tronic or something I've never seen before, very possible but I doubt it


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## KG441c (Apr 25, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Do you mean like this?
> 
> [/QUOTE
> No sorry guys! My dealer must have have me an old manual that shows the 4 positions but this is qhat my saw looks like





XSKIER said:


> Do you mean like this?


SORRY guys but my mistake. Though I had found something to help OP but my dealer obviously gave me an old manual with 4 positions but this is what saw looks like


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## Knobby57 (Apr 25, 2014)

Silly dealers!!, and I almost got my panties in a snit lol
I had a stalling issue on my 441cmr when idling and it turned out to be a bad loop of new Oregon chain that was a bit grabby causing the to run really fat. Corrected the chain and haven't had a issue again. With no way to monitor the exhaust oxygen content the only way the m tronic can adjust for mixture is by rpm and temp , the only 2 inputs to the control unit . So a rpm variation from the chain makes sense . It's possible the OP may be heating his saw up a bit to much making it lean out, dull chain,poor fuel or mix, poor oil for the mix, or possible it's in winter mode. Any major issue like a vacume leak causes a really fat mixture. I would be very surprised if there is a defect in the saw . Thinking more user error of some sort. I would dump the fuel. Get new fuel and new spark plug. Clean the screen in the carby and I'll bet it will be good to go as long as it's not in winter mode 


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## Bl8tant (Apr 26, 2014)

OP here. No "user error" here. I run ethanol-free fuel ONLY in all my ***. Just to be absolutely sure that fuel was not the issue I also bought 2 cans of the MotoMix. Same problem. The shutter was the first thing I checked since the saw acted like it had vapor lock from over-heating. Keep in mind - this saw started acting up on the very first day I bought it. I've run 10-15 tanks through it with no improvement or getting worse.

She's at the "doctor" getting a new carb.......my fingers are crossed that it does the trick. If they could run all the tests on the saw while it was truly "hot", I know they could nail the issue. Kinda hard to do vac testing/module testing when the muffler is still tinkling though...


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## MustangMike (Apr 26, 2014)

Hope it cures the problem.


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## zogger (Apr 27, 2014)

Bl8tant said:


> OP here. No "user error" here. I run ethanol-free fuel ONLY in all my ***. Just to be absolutely sure that fuel was not the issue I also bought 2 cans of the MotoMix. Same problem. The shutter was the first thing I checked since the saw acted like it had vapor lock from over-heating. Keep in mind - this saw started acting up on the very first day I bought it. I've run 10-15 tanks through it with no improvement or getting worse.
> 
> She's at the "doctor" getting a new carb.......my fingers are crossed that it does the trick. If they could run all the tests on the saw while it was truly "hot", I know they could nail the issue. Kinda hard to do vac testing/module testing when the muffler is still tinkling though...



hey, good luck!

I am thinking next the logical evolution of these computerized saws (other than direct fuel injection) would be a bluetooth connection so you *could* get hot real time data, right to your phone.

Frankly though..I am more interested in the advances with the battery saws over the computerized gas saws. Once they have one that can run a 20inch bar and chain and have good speed (they already have gobs of torque and a powerband the builders would give their left one for), that will be a serious game changer. The first generation lithium ion battery saws are already impressive, give it two more generations and they will be able to do roughly 3/4ths or better of most chainsawing done by most people. Not talking all day long heavy big tree felling and bucking, but, good enough to fill the back of a pickup. Talking the wild thing up to the farm boss/rancher/timberwolf backyard cutter and firewood scrounger class cutting market.

And I know the suits and engineers at the majors *know this*. They will dominate the small saw and *** market because they are all adding different tools to use the same batteries and chargers. No BS or hassle, grab a tool and it will start, it will run, it will work no tuneups or rank gas or air filters, etc, crapola to deal with. No cursing and yanking some starter cord to no avail, and we all know this is pretty darn common today. On/off, done.


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## Bl8tant (May 3, 2014)

FINAL OUTCOME:
My saw had been at the dealer for over a week due to a backorder issue with the carb. So I contacted Stihl and asked if I could just exchange my saw. They talked to the dealer and he agreed to an exchange. So that's what I did.....
Obviously I'm more than happy with the situation. I've bought alot of Stihl equipment over the years and never had any issues...NONE. So even though I had this little hiccup, I'm impressed with Stihl's customer service.


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## Spectre468 (May 3, 2014)

Glad they made it right. Have you been able to run the new saw yet?


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## zogger (May 3, 2014)

Bl8tant said:


> FINAL OUTCOME:
> My saw had been at the dealer for over a week due to a backorder issue with the carb. So I contacted Stihl and asked if I could just exchange my saw. They talked to the dealer and he agreed to an exchange. So that's what I did.....
> Obviously I'm more than happy with the situation. I've bought alot of Stihl equipment over the years and never had any issues...NONE. So even though I had this little hiccup, I'm impressed with Stihl's customer service.



That's cool, hope the new one works better for ya!


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## Bl8tant (May 3, 2014)

I've started it once and then shut it off. I'm dying to take it out and run a few tanks through it.


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## Spectre468 (Jul 21, 2014)

So, I got to cut with my new MS261C-M for the first time today. Ran great. Shut it down after about half a tank, didn't want to restart. Let it sit for about 5 minutes, fired up. Ran it a bit more, shut it off, wouldn't restart. Used other saws to finish up. About 3 hours later, tried to restart the 261 and it just flooded. I didn't think you could flood an M-tronic, but I managed. Hope it will start tomorrow, otherwise it's going back to the dealer...


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## MustangMike (Jul 21, 2014)

Sorry to hear of your problems. I have seen some people recommend the "Start" position all the time. My saw does not like it when it is hot.

When hot, I just pull the cord. If it does not start on first pull, then I use Start position.

Hope this helps.

So, how did it cut?


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

Are u sure its flooding or starving for fuel? My 362c is opposite from yours and has to be started exactly like Stihl Tech told me. If mine is hot and I shut it off it will restart in the run position if restarted pretty quickly but if u go sharpen a chain or take a break it has to be started in the start position again. If I try to start in the run position after its cooled down some, its hard to start


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

Spectre try restarting in run position immediately after u shut it off then wait awhile and try to start in the start positiin. If mine has cooled down awile and it doesnt start on the first pull, then its gonna be hard to start period! Try goin straight to start position as Ive had no trouble cranking it in the start position. I took my 441c back and traded for a 461 because of this problem but I didnt try this method thats worked on my 362c. Try that method and let me know how it works for u as Im curious to know? It worked for me


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## ash man (Jul 21, 2014)

I thought I was having issues with my 550xp, restarting it hot. It has to be started in the high idle even when hot. Not sure if Stihl m-tronic is the same, but works for my 550


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

Theres only 3 positions on the Stihl being start, run, and momentary off


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## ash man (Jul 21, 2014)

I was making the mistake of just trying to start it in the run position, with out a lot of luck, until I think kenjax explained it to me. Even when the saw is hot I have to flip the control all the way up to full choke , then down to high idle (half choke) and start it. Then let it run for 5-10 seconds( you can hear the auto-tune thinking on the go) before you blip the throttle. After the auto tune has a chance to recalibrate it runs great


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

ash man said:


> I was making the mistake of just trying to start it in the run position, with out a lot of luck, until I think kenjax explained it to me. Even when the saw is hot I have to flip the control all the way up to full choke , then down to high idle (half choke) and start it. Then let it run for 5-10 seconds( you can hear the auto-tune thinking on the go) before you blip the throttle. After the auto tune has a chance to recalibrate it runs great


Yes it sounds like a common factor with mtronics and auto tune? These electronic saws can't be treated and started like a standard carb model it doesn't look like?


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## blsnelling (Jul 21, 2014)

I have never used the choke/start position to start an MTronic saw, and never had issues. Why choke a warm saw?


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

blsnelling said:


> I have never used the uchoke/start position to start an MTronic saw, and never had issues. Why choke a warm saw?


u would if u had the 2 Ive had or it.wouldnt crank


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## MustangMike (Jul 21, 2014)

I agree w/Brad. Even if it has been off for 5 or 10 minutes, I give one pull in the run position, and she usually starts. If she does not start on one pull, I use Start position. I have never had a starting issue with this saw (362 C-M). I think M-Tronic may remember what you do, so it may be a matter of consistency.


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## woodchipper95 (Jul 21, 2014)

All these problems with stihl and husky, darn I guess we'll all have to go to echo. I hear they're flawless just cut a little slow. I honestly wouldn't mind owning a small echo.


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

Seems alot of people r having the se issues? Ive had 2 any they acted the same way. The technique I mentioned works on my 362c? Thats the way Stihl Tech told me to start also


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## cre10 (Jul 21, 2014)

This sounds stupid, but mine was doing it with a 16" bar, but it hasn't with an 18" bar. Maybe it had something to do with recalibrating the auto tune.


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## Spectre468 (Jul 21, 2014)

Dunno. Stihl says to use the start position every time, hot or cold, as I understand it. My 362C usually starts the first pull, but have never had to pull more than 3x. The 261c was definitely flooded. I pulled the plug and it was wet and had mix coming out of the muffler after about 8 pulls. (It cut great when it was running, Mike). I'm gonna mess with it this afternoon and see if it will start. I'm supposed to go cut Wednesday. If it fires then, I'll run a full tank through it before I shut it off and take it from there. I've had it since April, drained the mix after 5 quick cuts when I got it home. Ran it for the first time yesterday, but only got a half tank through it and then couldn't get it started again.


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## MustangMike (Jul 21, 2014)

Glad it ran strong when it ran. Try not using Start when it is warm, I think it will resolve your issue. I only use Start when cold, or if it does not start on the first pull when warm. If in doubt, I always give it one pull on Run. This system has worked well for me. When I have put it on Start with a warm saw it did not start or first pull, so I went back to Run and started it.

Was it colder out when you ran the 362? This may make a difference.

Good luck with them both.


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> Glad it ran strong when it ran. Try not using Start when it is warm, I think it will resolve your issue. I only use Start when cold, or if it does not start on the first pull when warm. If in doubt, I always give it one pull on Run. This sy
> stem has worked well for me. When I have put it on Start with a warm saw it did not start or first pull, so I went back to Run and started it.
> 
> Was it colder out when you ran the 362? This may make a difference.
> ...


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## Spectre468 (Jul 21, 2014)

OK, couldn't wait till later this pm, had to hit the shed and see if the 261 would start. First pull on start it fired but stalled, second pull on start it fired and stalled when I blipped the throttle. Third pull on start it fired and ran till I turned it off. Hopefully I can give it a work out on Wednesday and not have any issues. Same day and temps/conditions Mike, but good thought. The 362 has about 5-6 tanks through it and the 261 is still on it's first. The 271, on the other hand is on about it's 12th tank and running like a champ!


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

my 362 c usually starts on first pull when cold on choke and never goes dead. I blip the throttle and its straight to run without dying


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## blsnelling (Jul 21, 2014)

KG441c said:


> These arent carb models. Stihl tech said start everytime in start?


It's still very much a carb, and the start position operates a choke. A warm saw doesn't need choked. The only real difference is that the H needle it's replaced with an electronic servo.


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

blsnelling said:


> It's still very much a carb, and the start position operates a choke. A warm saw doesn't need choked.


I agree with u but for some reason Stihl doesnt?


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

Theres some reason alot of people are having the same problem?


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## MustangMike (Jul 21, 2014)

I have not seen a lot of people having problems, just a few. I also agree with what Brad said, it just makes sense.

What I do like about M-Tronic, unlike a standard Stihl saw that just coughs on choke then has to be re-started, is that M-Tronic will start on Start and keep running after you hit the throttle, but I have found that you want to wait a few seconds before you hit the throttle (more when it is cold) or it will stall.

I think if you try starting it in the Run position when it is warm it will work quite well, and I don't care what they recommend, I only care what works.

My saw will often take 3-5 pulls when cold (not used for days or weeks), but never more than that.


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## porsche965 (Jul 21, 2014)

I have had no problems with the 241c, 362c or 441c. They always start with no issues. The 661c for the first three tanks was acting just as everyone above have described. Not all the time, on occasion. Never the same pattern to zero in on. Reminded me of the Ex Wife. On the fourth tank I was pretty perturbed so decided to treat it like the proverbial "red headed step child" and ran the saw without a break pulling a 28" bar, full comp, in oak until just vapors were left in the tank. 

That was about 1/2 a dozen tanks ago and now it starts perfectly, just like the 660. Choke/start when cold, run when hot, and man is she starting to sing now. But it sure had me pissed at times, always started when I hit the right combination. I also did the re-calibration with the bar off and chain cover and that didn't seem to help. The way it runs now I want to think it was me somehow but don't know how, I tried everything. 

At this time there isn't an Auto Tune or Mtronic that I would want to part with. Good stuff IMO. The benefits far outweigh the small nuances I experienced with the 661c. I have another 661c on order whenever that comes in. 

Try running the saw hard and see if things don't re-set like mine did. Or whatever it did.


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> I have not seen a lot of people having problems, just a few. I also agree with what Brad said, it just makes sense.
> 
> What I do like about M-Tronic, unlike a standard Stihl saw tha
> t jusWellt cowughs on choke then has to be re-started, is that M-Tronic will start on Start and keep running after you hit the throttle, but I have found that you want to wait a few seconds before you hit the throttle (more when it is cold) or it will stall.
> ...


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

Ive just talked with tech at Virginia Beach , Virginia and he told me he had heard of the problem with other saws but also said no 2 mtronics saw hes seen started the same. Mike u say ur saw takes 3 to 5 pulls to start when cold but mine never takes more than 2 and usually starts on the first pull. Mine just has to be restarted on choke if warm? Still cranks good just has to be on choke? My 441 wasnt like that in that if it was warm and u waited a few minutes and tried to restart in run u was fixing to play hell and t had to be put in choke and pulled about 20 times to start


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## Spectre468 (Jul 21, 2014)

porsche965 said:


> I have had no problems with the 241c, 362c or 441c. They always start with no issues. The 661c for the first three tanks was acting just as everyone above have described. Not all the time, on occasion. Never the same pattern to zero in on. Reminded me of the Ex Wife. On the fourth tank I was pretty perturbed so decided to treat it like the proverbial "red headed step child" and ran the saw without a break pulling a 28" bar, full comp, in oak until just vapors were left in the tank.
> 
> That was about 1/2 a dozen tanks ago and now it starts perfectly, just like the 660. Choke/start when cold, run when hot, and man is she starting to sing now. But it sure had me pissed at times, always started when I hit the right combination. I also did the re-calibration with the bar off and chain cover and that didn't seem to help. The way it runs now I want to think it was me somehow but don't know how, I tried everything.
> 
> ...


 
That's exactly my plan. My understanding is that these M-tronic saws REALLY like being run hard. I want to run a full tank through it without stopping.


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## MustangMike (Jul 21, 2014)

Keith, I guess it is like the tech said, they are all different, and perhaps, to some degree, M-Tronic learns what you do.


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## KG441c (Jul 21, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> Keith, I guess it is like the tech said, they are all different, and perhaps, to some degree, M-Tronic learns what you do.


I wasnt as lucky with my 441 but i have my 362c figured out luckily


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## blsnelling (Jul 21, 2014)

KG441c said:


> I agree with u but for some reason Stihl doesnt?


I know, and I don't understand their logic.


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## blsnelling (Jul 21, 2014)

I'm still quite fond of my little orange screwdrivers


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## MustangMike (Jul 21, 2014)

I was a huge fan of M-Tronic till I discovered dual port mufflers and HD-2 filters. Sort of levels the playing field. I guess, now, I have a split personality, I like them both for different reasons.

But I think you builders still prefer Auto Tune/M-Tronic on your ported wonders so that we don't inadvertently ruin them.


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## Spectre468 (Jul 21, 2014)

KG441c said:


> I wasnt as lucky with my 441 but i have my 362c figured out luckily


My 362 runs great and is really a huge step up from my old 360 Pro. Knock on wood.


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## MOD (May 16, 2015)

I bought a 261 CM to clear a large lot and slab some of the nicer pine trees into beams to make some floating stair treads. I know the 261 isn't an ideal saw for an Alaskan mill, but there wasn't much to do (4 cuts per log), it's pine, and I don't mind going slowly and keeping a ripping chain extra sharp.

The saw ran great for felling and bucking. No issues, loved it, starting by the third pull every time. It actually cuts pretty well with the Alaskan mill too, though through some testing, grinding every other pair of teeth into scoring cutters made a huge difference in keeping the RPMs up and the saw moving smoothly.

The issue is, when using it with the Alaskan mill, it develops a hot start issue after about half a tank of gas. Sometimes it seems like it won't start because it's flooded, sometimes it seems like it's not getting enough gas, in which case putting it in choke seems to help, sorta, sometimes.

I took it in to the dealer, they cleaned out the "flooded carb" and said it was fine. Dealer said to never start it in choke when it's warm, and also to flip it to run after 4 pulls even if it's cold. I followed that, but the issue's still there, and I'm starting to lose my patience with a saw that is really, really starting to slow me down.

If I leave it idling after making a cut, it will run (rough -ish) for about 1-2 minutes then die and refuse to restart for about 45 minutes. If I turn it off immediately after making a cut, it will refuse to restart for about 45 minutes. Sometimes it starts, runs for a second or two, then dies. Sometimes it starts, but dies when I put any throttle on it.

Someone in this thread suggested a problem with the gas tank. Sure enough, sometimes when I open the tank when it's hot, I get a splash of gas and a steady stream of bubbles rising in the gas. But only sometimes. Opening the tank to relieve the pressure does not help it restart.

I've tried all manner of combinations of starting it in choke, starting it in run, chain brake on, chain brake off, etc. Chain brake off of course helps, but even then it has to sit for a while before it'll come close to starting again.

I've done the "carburetor reset" procedures (90 sec in choke, off, then 90 sec in idle, off, then start and make a few cuts). Doesn't seem to do anything differently after.

I tried switching to 93 octane ethanol free gas over the usual 89. Seemed to help a little, but not entirely sure.

At this point, I've got wood on the ground that's been on the ground for so long, it may or may not be useable if or when I can get it slabed and stickered. My best guess is that something is causing the computer to make wrong carb adjustments. Maybe my ripping chain (carlton) is the issue? I plan to try a different one soon. Is it possible the computer just doesn't understand or adjust correctly in slabbing cuts? It's going back to the dealer on Monday for repair round 2.

Any ideas?


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## traktorz (May 17, 2015)

M-Tronic depends on it's sensors for temp, choke, throttle position, rpm, etc. If any of the sensors are malfunctioning, the fuel control steering is way off, hence the running problems. 

Husqvarna s/w has a sensor test, I guess the M-Tronic has as well. 

Personally, I prefer the classic carburetors of our older MS362, having the option to richen the fuel mix, at times when using the PMX chains.


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## Cope1024 (May 17, 2015)

AKDoug said:


> I just got info from my Stihl tech guy. He says to always start an M-Tronic in the lower cold start position. This is very hard to learn for all of us that NEVER use the choke in a warm saw.





MustangMike said:


> Sorry to hear of your problems. I have seen some people recommend the "Start" position all the time. My saw does not like it when it is hot.
> 
> When hot, I just pull the cord. If it does not start on first pull, then I use Start position.
> 
> ...


Stihl says to start from the run position when warmed up. I haven't run mine much, but it always starts one pull from run position when warm.


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

Cope1024 said:


> Stihl says to start from the run position when warmed up. I haven't run mine much, but it always starts one pull from run position when warm.


Stihl tech told me to start choke position also


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

Depends which Mtronics I'm using. Some start warm in run mode, some start warm in start/choke mode. Makes no sense to me.

You just have to learn the proper procedure it seems for each saw. I have a new 362c (again) and that one only starts warm with a drop start with the trigger depressed on run mode. If it didn't run so well once started id take it back like the last one.

Husky Auto Tunes aren't exempt from fussy moments as well.


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

Recalibration is the 1st thing to do with any problem


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## MustangMike (May 17, 2015)

Mine has been re calibrated. I think Porche is right, U just have to know your saw.


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Mine has been re calibrated. I think Porche is right, U just have to know your saw.


I agree but there is an underlying problem somewhere? I mean one saw shouldnt require choke and one run? Thats a huge difference?


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

Both Husky and Stihl Dealers will gladly update the software upon request free of charge. One would think as improvements come down from the factories they would eventually end up in our saws!

Best starting computer saw I have is the MS 241. There is hope yet.....


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

KG441c said:


> I agree but there is an underlying problem somewhere? I mean one saw shouldnt require choke and one run? Thats a huge difference?



If there is I sure can't find it. Neither can the Dealer. As long as I get each one figured out its good here. Of course nothing I have is stock except the 661c. But even stock they were somewhat different.


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

Porting my 241c right now. Got squish cut so far with a .020 clearance. These quad and strato port cylinders are more complicated than a traditional 2 port cylinder. Alit more goin on in there


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

Here is something that's weird. The Huskies when shut off by moving the selector to choke always restart warm on high idle now fine. Haven't tried that on Stihl yet.

You just have to try everything when they decide to get fussy.

Not one out of the 6 have any problems cold so at least I'm good for one tank lol. But it's getting better, or I'm learning better I should say.


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

The 241c still puts a smile on my face even with a 18" bar for reach.


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

Can't wait for Stihl to move FI onto the chainsaws. IF that works well I'll sell all and start over again


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

porsche965 said:


> The 241c still puts a smile on my face even with a 18" bar for reach.


Mine started out stock at 172psi and should bump considerably now


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

Porsche I found out the Stihl 3005 mount bars r odd. The 18" is 16.5" and the 16" is 14.5" but the Cannon Supermini 16" is 16.3"


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## Cope1024 (May 17, 2015)

KG441c said:


> Porsche I found out the Stihl 3005 mount bars r odd. The 18" is 16.5" and the 16" is 14.5" but the Cannon Supermini 16" is 16.3"



Maybe the Cannon is odd?


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

So


KG441c said:


> Porsche I found out the Stihl 3005 mount bars r odd. The 18" is 16.5" and the 16" is 14.5" but the Cannon Supermini 16" is 16.3"



I measured 16" from spike to end of tooth that is available for cutting on the 18" bar. 61 Drive Links. 

My ported 261 just sits now lol. But the 261 does handle an 18" .325 a bar full of wood better and would be a very good one saw plan for most homeowners, especially in a Mtron model. 

Us AS guys are always so over powered it isn't even funny. Rarely do I push a saw even close to it's limits before reaching for the next size up in HP.


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## porsche965 (May 17, 2015)

KG441c said:


> Mine started out stock at 172psi and should bump considerably now



That's strong compression to begin with. You get that little 241c up close to 200 and it would feel like you are holding a firecracker when you nail the trigger lol.


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## KG441c (May 17, 2015)

Cope1024 said:


> Maybe the Cannon is odd?


What I see is Stihl cheats u on length but on Cannons C1 mount which is universal for Stihl 3005 mount or Husky KO95 you get more than whats specd


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Speechless...... totally speechless


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## MustangMike (May 17, 2015)

If my 362 is not normal, I'll keep it that way! She always starts and runs well, no complaints. I warm weather, I only use "Start" for the initial start, and even several hours later she will start on "Run" with the 1st or second pull. I don't use the c/r on that saw. (unless the saw is warm and I am in an awkward position).

Perhaps if you re calibrate it differently (leave out the Run portion for 90 sec) it will turn out differently.

My non M-Tronic saws are very similar. On a warm day, I only need to use choke for the first start, so they are all the same, I'm happy!


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## Knobby57 (May 18, 2015)

You are asking way to much out of that little saw to slab even pine . A rough cutting chain will throw off the m tronic . I found that out on a grabby chain on my 441cm . Even that said you are asking way too much from 261. You are probably heating that bugger up pretty good . Do yourself a favor and get a bigger saw to mill with and you won't kill a great saw like a 261


Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## ReinkeFand&S (Nov 2, 2015)

Has there been any resolve on this. I am having the very same issue. I have now been to the dealership three times, they have put on a new carb and still will not start after using the it.


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## MOD (Nov 2, 2015)

Nope. Mine went in for a new solenoid, then a whole new carburetor, and it still floods if you look at it funny. It can be somewhat managed, though.

After mine went in for a new carb, they said they ran it for 30 minutes and then it started up fine. Thing is, when I opened it up to change the chain, I noticed the whole area was full of bar oil gunk, but no sawdust. So they ran it for 30 minutes, but didn't put any load on it. The next day I bucked a bradford pear branch, about 10" dia, that had fallen in a friend of a friend's yard. It cut like butter, but even after that very very light task, it had to sit 20 min. to start up again. Tried different bars, multiple chains...behavior is consistent. Any load at all and it floods shortly after turning it off.

I called the dealer and said I wanted a new saw. They said no (they tested it as working fine, after all), so I've mostly had to live with it. Needless to say, never buying another m-tronic anything. Best I can figure, there is something unrelated to the carburetor that is susceptible to manufacturing sample variation (not all saws exhibit this behavior), that continues to dump fuel into the engine after turning it off.

my tips:
-Never more than three pulls in choke, even when cold.
-Always start in run if warm
-To shutoff, run full throttle for ~5 sec, then hit the shutoff while running it full throttle. Seems to leave the engine drier, but could be in my head.
-Keep wrench handy and pull the spark plug if it doesn't start in 5 pulls. 

It's frustrating as hell and I can't believe I paid $600 for this POS.


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## ReinkeFand&S (Nov 3, 2015)

After the fourth trip to the dealer yesterday and a call to Stihl warranty, and a little heated debate, I'm going to pick up a new power head this morning after getting out of the tree stand. I guess I'm lucky to have great dealer, but when you have bought 5 saws and a SCAG mower from him he treats me pretty well, even if I'm one of the younger guys he sees.


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## Bkknnk (Sep 6, 2017)

I have the same issue with the 261c that was purchased about 2 months ago. Starts fine when cold, but starting when the saw is hot is impossible! Dealer said gas was bad...wasn't the gas, as next day started fine with same gas. I haven't read all the replies, but should I return this frustration of a saw!?


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## MustangMike (Sep 6, 2017)

You are suppose to let a M-Tronic saw idle for a bit before shutting them off (not at full throttle).

If warm, always try run position before start position.

If it still does not start, pin the throttle and give it a few pulls, and I'll bet it will start.


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## MelMalinowski (Jul 21, 2019)

I bought a Stihl 261 C-M in July 2019 from a very knowledgeable servicing dealer in WA. With about 10 hours on it, it began displaying symptoms very much like posted by Bl8tant. Once hot, would not start. Sometimes, it would be running and just stop, then not start. Dealer serviced, the computer said it was OK. Took it out, fresh fuel filter, spark plug, Stihl gas and oil, fell one 18" tree, and at the start of the next undercut, it stopped and would not start. Dealer is scratching his head, and will escalate on Monday. In the meantime, my job is being held up. This will be a test of Stihl corporate customer service. I hope they won't keep servicing it and sending it out without testing the hot performance. If I were Stihl, after two tries I'd give the guy a new saw and take the problem child in for testing under stress to figure out why occasional saws of this model can do this. It sounds like an ignition component that fails intermittently when hot. Anyway, I'll report how it goes here. 70° weather, a pro saw should start and run easily and consistently.


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## holeycow (Jul 21, 2019)




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## MelMalinowski (Jul 22, 2019)

I bought a Stihl 261 C-M in July 2019 from a very knowledgeable servicing dealer in WA. With about 10 hours on it, it began displaying symptoms very much like posted by Bl8tant. Once hot, would not start. Sometimes, it would be running and just stop, then not start. Dealer serviced, the computer said it was OK. Took it out, fresh fuel filter, spark plug, Stihl gas and oil, fell one 18" tree, and at the start of the next undercut, it stopped and would not start. Dealer is scratching his head, and will escalate on Monday. In the meantime, my job is being held up. This will be a test of Stihl corporate customer service. I hope they won't keep servicing it and sending it out without testing the hot performance. If I were Stihl, after two tries I'd give the guy a new saw and take the problem child in for testing under stress to figure out why occasional saws of this model can do this. It sounds like an ignition component that fails intermittently when hot. Anyway, I'll report how it goes here. 70° weather, a pro saw should start and run easily and consistently.

Outcome: First business day after problem, Stihl Northwest requested that my 261 CM be sent in for testing, and authorized giving me a new 261CM. Before quitting time, I fell 14 12-18" Douglas Fir with it, and it performed flawlessly. Kudos to Thomas Building Center and Stihl. I'll stress test it more on this project and report. Dealer says that the 261CM has enough power for a 20" bar, and that if it is performing normally, heat is not an issue. It cuts well for a 50cc relatively lightweight saw. The design and quality of build of the pro series saws is impressive. A pro 'topper' was in the shop and recommended using Aviation 100 octane ethanol-free gas, so I'm buying that at our local airfield. Stihl recommends using their special chain oil that is sticky enough to make it around to the bottom of the bar even at the very high chain speeds that the pro saws operate at. Could be true.


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## oldfortyfive (Jul 22, 2019)

I got my 261CM last summer and have not seen any of these issues. It's been a great saw.


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## MountainHigh (Nov 9, 2019)

My 261 c-m will only start by giving it a real hard snap drop saw pull.

Just using a medium pull technique that has worked on every other saw I've owned, fails to start this saw.

Taking it back to the shop... again


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## qluk (Nov 30, 2019)

Found this thread because I've got the same problem on my 261 C-M. I'm a home user and also have a 193T and 150 TC-E. Those 2 work great. Stihl oil mix bottle stated to use 89 octane so I bought fresh gas today. I ran the motor on and off for about 30 minutes. It was starting up fine each time, and the motor was only off for less than a minute each time. Then I re-filled the tank and after about 15 minutes of it sitting there I tried to get back to work - put it in the run position and it wouldn't start; put it in the half-choke position (whatever you call that at 3 positions down) and it started full throttle for about 2 seconds and never started again. Now is 6 hours later and it still won't start. I assumed flooding but when I removed the spark plug and tried to empty anything out of the cylinder, nothing came out. About a week ago I followed the re-calibration process in the manual.

The chainsaw is about 1 1/2 years old and I probably have 7 hours of use over that time on it. I have always had this problem with the saw and each time toss it aside and get the 193T to continue. It tends to start up the next day (a cycle of moon gravity?).

I'll update if I make any progress. I bought this chainsaw because the 193T works so well, so my first thought is M-tronic. Let's see what Stihl says tomorrow.

With all that said, looking at the attached image of the switch which doesn't match the manual, is it an older model or something?


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## MountainHigh (Nov 30, 2019)

qluk said:


> Found this thread because I've got the same problem on my 261 C-M. I'm a home user and also have a 193T and 150 TC-E. Those 2 work great. Stihl oil mix bottle stated to use 89 octane so I bought fresh gas today. I ran the motor on and off for about 30 minutes. It was starting up fine each time, and the motor was only off for less than a minute each time. Then I re-filled the tank and after about 15 minutes of it sitting there I tried to get back to work - put it in the run position and it wouldn't start; put it in the half-choke position (whatever you call that at 3 positions down) and it started full throttle for about 2 seconds and never started again. Now is 6 hours later and it still won't start. I assumed flooding but when I removed the spark plug and tried to empty anything out of the cylinder, nothing came out. About a week ago I followed the re-calibration process in the manual.
> 
> The chainsaw is about 1 1/2 years old and I probably have 7 hours of use over that time on it. I have always had this problem with the saw and each time toss it aside and get the 193T to continue. It tends to start up the next day (a cycle of moon gravity?).
> 
> I'll update if I make any progress. I bought this chainsaw because the 193T works so well, so my first thought is M-tronic. Let's see what Stihl says tomorrow.




Sorry to hear you're having saw problems. Here's another thread about my saw that *might contain some help for yours:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/261-c-m-running-lean.336664/


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## farmer steve (Nov 30, 2019)

qluk said:


> Found this thread because I've got the same problem on my 261 C-M. I'm a home user and also have a 193T and 150 TC-E. Those 2 work great. Stihl oil mix bottle stated to use 89 octane so I bought fresh gas today. I ran the motor on and off for about 30 minutes. It was starting up fine each time, and the motor was only off for less than a minute each time. Then I re-filled the tank and after about 15 minutes of it sitting there I tried to get back to work - put it in the run position and it wouldn't start; put it in the half-choke position (whatever you call that at 3 positions down) and it started full throttle for about 2 seconds and never started again. Now is 6 hours later and it still won't start. I assumed flooding but when I removed the spark plug and tried to empty anything out of the cylinder, nothing came out. About a week ago I followed the re-calibration process in the manual.
> 
> The chainsaw is about 1 1/2 years old and I probably have 7 hours of use over that time on it. I have always had this problem with the saw and each time toss it aside and get the 193T to continue. It tends to start up the next day (a cycle of moon gravity?).
> 
> ...


Yes,older model. Mfg date should be on the sticker on the handle. My new one only has stop,run and choke postions.


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## Be Stihl (Nov 30, 2019)

qluk said:


> Found this thread because I've got the same problem on my 261 C-M. I'm a home user and also have a 193T and 150 TC-E. Those 2 work great. Stihl oil mix bottle stated to use 89 octane so I bought fresh gas today. I ran the motor on and off for about 30 minutes. It was starting up fine each time, and the motor was only off for less than a minute each time. Then I re-filled the tank and after about 15 minutes of it sitting there I tried to get back to work - put it in the run position and it wouldn't start; put it in the half-choke position (whatever you call that at 3 positions down) and it started full throttle for about 2 seconds and never started again. Now is 6 hours later and it still won't start. I assumed flooding but when I removed the spark plug and tried to empty anything out of the cylinder, nothing came out. About a week ago I followed the re-calibration process in the manual.
> 
> The chainsaw is about 1 1/2 years old and I probably have 7 hours of use over that time on it. I have always had this problem with the saw and each time toss it aside and get the 193T to continue. It tends to start up the next day (a cycle of moon gravity?).
> 
> ...



Mine only has the three positions also, no half choke. What does the clutch cover look like, does it look like the new 462 or is it the more common larger cover?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## qluk (Dec 11, 2019)

Following up on my issue in case someone down the line ends up with a similar problem and reads my original post. I gave it to a dealer who adjusted the carb and installed a new fuel line and filter. It ran for all of 10 minutes, died, and was incapable of starting. Thankfully Stihl is open for calls on Saturdays. I got a rep on the line and the person was familiar with the condition and said the control unit, part number 1141 400 4702, is causing it. They warrantied the part and it's at the dealer now waiting for the part to arrive.


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