# SRT Technique



## MasterBlaster (Dec 10, 2003)

Okay, I can understand the use of this style for ascending/descending. I use SRT for descending all the time. Well, maybe only when I'm coming out of a spar.  

I have NEVER used it to enter a tree. From what I can glean from reading previous posts SRT ascension is convenient for only a relatively few amount of trees that I encounter daily.

Brian you mentioned earlier that you were quicker getting to the top using SRT over another climber. I would like to know all the variables involved.

One MAIN variable, that other climber wasn't me.  

But this is my real question; How do you trim using that style? How do you move around in the canopy of a 150 year old Oak like that? I usually tie-in MANY different times, as I work-out the 4 quadrants of the tree.

HOW do ya'llise guys do that with SRT?


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: SRT Technique*



> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> * Heck, they usually can't even gas my saw without screwing it up.  *



Ha! I hear that. With the crap that gets accumulated on the oiler I don't trust 'em to clean 'em out properly. Much less secure it correctly.
But wait, don't you use an Echo?  

So, who uses SRT for trimming?


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 10, 2003)

I don't like it very much over there. Kinda dry. Not much posting going on.

I dunno...


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## Dan F (Dec 10, 2003)

I'll admit, I don't have the latest edition of TCC (it's on my Christmas list). Maybe this is explained there, but how do you retrieve your rope when working SRT once on the ground? 

Don't you normally set it at the TIP like normal, tie a running bowline (or use a 'biner) and pull it up? How do you get it back down again? Do you descend in the traditional manner? Do you tie a slickline/zing-it on the loop and pull it down with that?

Enlighten someone (me) who has not been in a tree for over 2 years!


Dan


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## Lumberjack (Dec 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan F _
> *I'll admit, I don't have the latest edition of TCC (it's on my Christmas list). Maybe this is explained there, but how do you retrieve your rope when working SRT once on the ground?
> 
> Don't you normally set it at the TIP like normal, tie a running bowline (or use a 'biner) and pull it up? How do you get it back down again? Do you descend in the traditional manner? Do you tie a slickline/zing-it on the loop and pull it down with that?
> ...



I send the trowline over the top, and back down along the trunk if possible and wrap it around the tree. When I get done I repel down on an 8, unhook the wrap, and pull it back over the top, and out of the tree.

I seldomly run a bowline up to the limb because I like for the rope to be over several limbs and crotchs to spread the load out, and it would be a pain to remove. 


Butch, you said that SRT would need long ropes when compared to DbRT, but the same rope works for both. If you think about it when standing on the ground using the DbRT the rope is doubled over the limb, same as in SRT and it uses the same amount of rope. I didn't think of that till after we hung up tho.

Also what I do is carry up a shorter length of rope and tie it in at the top, and drop the rope down, so I can get in diff sections of the tree.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *
> 
> Also what I do is carry up a shorter length of rope and tie it in at the top, and drop the rope down, so I can get in diff sections of the tree. *





So whats the need to use the SRT if your gonna go DRT to do your work?


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## rborist1 (Dec 11, 2003)

:Eye:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 11, 2003)

When SRT was introduced to tree guys, it was as a method of entering the tree. You throw a line into the tree over one or more crotches (no need to isolate a single limb), tie one end to the base and acsend the other end.
This method is safe, fast, and easy.
Once you got to the top you would abandon the SRT but leave it as an access point in case of an accident or other need to re-enter the tree.
Somewhere along the way, guys figured out they didn't have to abandon the SRT, and just kept working off it.
Just because youdon't work off it, doesn't mean it's no longer a good way to enter a tree.

I could be wrong, but I thought Carl was using the second short rope SRT too.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

Yea, if I cant get at another part of the tree, then I climb up, set the short rope and use it SRT, I normall wrap it around the spar or leader, and go with it.


Carl


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## Greg (Dec 11, 2003)

I don't know who showed me this trick, may have been Brian or I just read it here but this works well in many scenarios:

Pick out a nice high tie in, usually cause you are going to be working somewhere below it, say 10ft or so below your tie in.

Tie a a running bowline, but leave a tail on the bowline about 10 or 15 feet. ---this tail can be as long as you want/need it.

When you are at your landing spot you can then reach out and grab that tail, secure in with your lanyard so you are not on the line, pull the tail down to get the bowline, re-tie a knot and start working on your double rope traditional set up. You will get up there twice as fast on single rope, and then can take a breath while you are setting up your working system. 

When I don't use this system I'll usually just tie an old tag line to the loop of the bowline and put it somewhere out of the way, pulling a running bowline loose with a throwline would be hard on the hands, and if it snaps you've got to climb up there to get your rope down. 

I do occasionaly tie off the end on the base of the tree, but I never feel as secure as with a running bowline up there. The ground guys can't mess up my running bowline tied 70 ft above their heads.

I love SRTing whne removing limbs on a large spreading live oak, it is so fast to get to the right spot, and most of the hacks around here spike on trim jobs like that and it would take them 10-15 minutes just to get into the position I get into in less than 3mins. 
Greg


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

They had that posted in the back of Sherrills 2003 catalog. They wee using it as an overhead support while cutting the notch on large spars.


Carl


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 15, 2003)

I'll repeat my prognostication again...

Within ten years DdRT climbing will be considered eight-track technology. The rest of the working rope industry around the world works off SRT. Arbos are the only ones who use this system.

If anyone hasn't read the article I wrote for TCI mag on SRT access write to me off line.

MB,

Did you grab a beer to keep yourself moistened and read the threads on SRT at Tre*buzz? And you still don't see the advantage? Hmmm...

Tom


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 16, 2003)

Tom, for me its hard to 'see' the advantages viewing only the printed word. For me to make such a radical change with my rope technique would require more than merely reading about it. And since I am the most advanced-technique climber(take that anyway you like ) around here, I have no one to observe and learn from.

Heck, I still use a tauntline hitch! That shows you how 'advanced' the climbers in central La are!  

I do not frequent tb, but I will read the threads you've suggested.


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## SilverBlue (Dec 16, 2003)

Tom, what's the best way to attach and then remove your line after you finish?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 16, 2003)

He puts it up there with a bucket truck then after he's all done and back on the ground, he climbs back up and unties the rope and drops it to the ground. Then he simply free climbs back down.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SilverBlue _
> *Tom, what's the best way to attach and then remove your line after you finish? *



I set the line with the big shot. Then I pull it down and attach the side I aint climbing (important) to the tree. Then when I get done, I unhook the biner (Butch) and pull the rope back down.

I will post some pics of the job today if I get a chance.


Carl


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## SilverBlue (Dec 16, 2003)

Thanks Tom!


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 16, 2003)

I see the holidays are getting to us all!


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## SilverBlue (Dec 16, 2003)

Sorry but I don't have all the time in the world to look at all the threads.
That's why I asked TOM. Although Mike's chuckle was a good one.
Carl what if you are set really high?
I know that many will benifit from pics.


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 16, 2003)

Mike,

I've asked you not to give all of my secrets up 

SB,

Have you read my TCI article? 

When I'm done I clear my line by pulling on the end just like anyone has done for time upon time. The SRT line is anchored at the base, not the top.

Tom


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## SilverBlue (Dec 16, 2003)

OK I got the word doc you sent but a video or pics would be helpful. Er you know, for those other guys :angel:


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## Lumberjack (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SilverBlue _
> *Carl what if you are set really high? *




Use a long rope. SRT's ropes are no longer than DbRT it you think about it, because on DbRT the two ends must come down to the ground anyways. Also you can tie 2 or more ropes together, by putting the knots on the side that you aint climbing. With my setup, I am good for around 170 if you put the knots on the other side of the rope. 


To give you an idea of how much I use SRT, I only where spikes on removals when I am chunking down the spar. That does violate Butch's 2nd rule, but it works for me. I remove all the limbs that I have to, and then put the spikes on so I can stand on the trunk. 

Yesterday when I was doin those Ceders I went to the top, tied in, cut some limbs, sent out the top, and then came down to the middle using DbRT so I could retrieve my line and retie it where I was. That is the only time I think that I will use DbRT.


Carl


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## Gord (Dec 16, 2003)

Maybe the holidays are getting to me as well but all the talk of the advancement of SRT is getting on my nerves. SRT is very impractical in a high percentage of the many many unique situations the arborist industry as a whole must deal with. Some situations are best dealt with using SRT but why would anyone want to throw away the entire evolution of the DdRT system? Trad systems are supremely versatile and reliable, SRT systems are, in many ways, limited. 

Tom you make it sound as though arborists are in the dark ages because every other rope discipline besides ours uses SRT. This is unfair. List one other discipline in which the people use their ropes as we do. Hanging off the side of a building is nothing like what we do. Nor is rappeling into a cave or manhole or down a cliff. I'm unaware of any other profession or sport in which people use ropes so intimately for support, balance, rappeling, ascension, positioning et al. 

I feel that SRT will gain popularity amongst certain types of arbo's who do specific types of work, however, DdRT is here to stay for the most of us.


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## Dan F (Dec 16, 2003)

> List one other discipline in which the people use their ropes as we do.


I've always wondered about that too... 

I've seen VERY anal rappeling instructors that would about have a heart attack if you stepped on the rope, and here arborists are pulling it under tension across bark? Granted we're talking about different kinds of ropes, but dirt is still dirt. 

I guess that's what surprised me the most when I took that urban arboriculture class. Nobody even batted an eye about the rope having fine particles of bark ground into it. I guess that's why you rotate your ropes and keep a careful eye on the SWL....


Dan


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## Lumberjack (Dec 16, 2003)

I make a big deal about it when my ground guys step on on the rope, part of being a reppeling instructor i guess. Today I about popped a vein when a painter ran over my rope because he was to impatient to hive my groundie 5 seconds to clear it for him. That really got me pissed. I understand about grit getting in the ropes, but steping on them is unneccesary, and driving over them, exspecially when on assfault (unsure of spelling), gets me hotter than boiling oil.

Oh and I try to wash my ropes every other week or so depending on use. During the summer (long hours) I washed them once a week, to keep them clean. 

Carl


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## Lumberjack (Dec 16, 2003)

Gord


I aint to be difficult but when is DbRT pratical when SRT aint? I have never really worked off DbRT, as you probably aint worked on SRT. I am just trying to understand your side. 

Carl


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 16, 2003)

DbRT RULES.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 16, 2003)

Why Butch, that is what I am asking. I never have used it, and I started on SRT. Does it rule because it is the norm or is what yall are used to?

Carl

Your guy can break too!

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15_1_49.gif' border=0></a>


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 16, 2003)

K.I.S.S.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 16, 2003)

Not the answer I had in mind. To me K.I.S.S. is SRT that is what I've always used. Yall rave about DbRT so I want an honest answer on why it is better, not an opion that it is simpler because it is what you already know. I want to know if I am missin something by not using DbRT.


Carl

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_121.gif' border=0></a>


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 17, 2003)

Geez, lighten up guys. I'm not criticizing your choice of pickup or hunting dog. 

Think of this discussion like any education. This is a buffet or pot luck. Lots of things to sample but no one is holding a gun to 
your head to eat anything that you don't want to. But, be polite, if you don't like the dish that is brought to share, keep your 
nasty comments to yourself. If you think Bill's soup is better than Jane's, give some reasons, not just blow out opinions.

There are many other working rope professions that move up and down besides arbos. Low angle rescues, stage rigging, 
industrial inspections. Spend some time on Google looking up working rope, IRATA and other topics and you'll see that arbos 
do have a unique work arena but not one that can ONLY use DdRT.

Butch is claiming the DdRT is simpler than SRT. How so? In SRT's simplest form all it takes is a rope, accessory cord loop for 
ascending and a descending backup and an HMS biner for a Munter rappel. From there its a 1:1 like I've already described. 
Butch has also told us that he is the best climber in his area. I have no reason to doubt him or to think that he is boasting. But he 
also says that no one else in his area knows what a figure eight is. That says that the climbers he knows are not that advanced. 
No criticism, just an observation. In my kit I've got probably seven different descending tools without counting the various 
HMS biners or body wrap rappels that I could configure. I would look like a space alien to Butch's buddies. 

Over the time that I've been working on my SRT system I've been very critical of the system. On the one hand I choose 
something because I like it and find it easy. But then I think of how that solution might translate into the everyday tree climbing 
work. This isn't a process that's happened over months. My use of SRT started probably seven or more years ago.

Gord thinks that DdRT is the most practical solution to tree climbing. Maybe because that has been the tradition for this first 
century of arboriculture. Practicality is based on options and knowledge. The more options the easier the work can get done.

When did I ever advocate throwing out DdRT? Quote chapter and verse before you make statements like that. Describe a 
situation where SRT can't solve the same problem that DdRT does. Versatility, reliability and safety are concerns for both 
disciplines. Neither system has a corner on the market for any of those topics. For each part, they have pluses and minuses. 
The climber has to be knowledgeable and skilled in order to weigh out the tradeoffs. Those tradeoffs aren't major, just little 
variations.

Arbos aren't in the Dark Ages but we do work in a very narrow slot. There are many less arbos working on ropes than all of 
the other working rope professions and sports. Ours is a profession that is very hard on equipment. Very rough and tumble for 
the most part. Also, very loose and casual about gear use and care. According to some Search and Rescue protocols, one soft 
gear is exposed to a rescue load, the gear is destroyed. That might sound extreme but that's their accepted protocols. And 
most of their uses and loads can be calculated and logged. We beat and abuse ropes with no good idea of how many times we 
"bend the paper clip". 

Most of the arbo industry will always work off DdRT. But, as years go by, more and more will start to use SRT. It's already 
happening. The conversion starts when a climber sees how much easier it is to access the crown on a non-isolated SRT system. 
Then they start to use SRT to go up and make single cuts. Soon, they start to work out, then up and down. In no time, they're 
leaving DdRT.

The way I measure ease is by the amount of calories burned to do a job. If I could work with a physiologist to measure the 
number of calories burned doing a work climb with each system I'm convinced that SRT would come out significantly ahead. 
Ease shouldn't be confused with easy. Something is easy because a person is skilled and understands the process. Look at any 
trade or discipline. I could only wish that I could write poetry as easily as Springsteen, or play the cello like Yo Yo Ma. Not 
going to happen. I climb trees. 

Here's a link to the article that I wrote for TCI on SRT access. There are some pics and illustrations:

http://www.natlarb.com/content/pubs/September 2002 TCI - Single Rope Technique.htm



Here are some links to give you insights into other working rope disciplines. 

http://www.irata.org/
http://www.rigg-access.com/
http://www.rat.ca/index.htm
http://sarbc.org/

All the best!

Tom


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## Gord (Dec 17, 2003)

I apologize if my post came off as a personal assault on you Tom but I didn't mean it that way at all. And I didn't elaborate on my reasons for feeling that SRT has too many shortcomings to use exclusively as I think you already no them, they're cited everytime one of these discussions comes up.

I spend a good amount of my time in single stem conifers, not something that a lot of arbo's do but here it's the norm. To set a throwline at a height that can be worked off of is out of the question. A line must be set over several limbs, often where the spar is only 4-6" in diameter. The only practical way to set this line is to climb up there. I often use SRT for ascension into the canopy, due to the fact that it is indeed quicker, as well as the downsloping lower limbs on the trees rule out DdRT. Once I climb to the top it doesn't make sense to me to feed my line over my TIP to the ground and have my ground fella tie it off to the base of the tree when I already have my trad climbing setup all ready to go. I select my TIP and begin working my way down the tree, thinning, deadwooding, crown-cleaning, whatever. Often my rope is not long enough to reach the ground. Instead of telling my groundie to untie the rope at the base, pulling the rope thru, selecting a new TIP and feeding the rope through it, then getting my groundie to retie the tail off to the base; I can simply unclip the spliced end of my line, pull it thru the crotch and retie in at my new TIP. And I could go on and on.

Tom the only beef I have with your promoting SRT is you make it sound as tho any progressive climber will eventually switch to SRT. I consider myself fairly progressive and yet although I've worked SRT in a few different situations and it's been convenient in some ways I'd never adopt the technique full time.

And although the professions you cited do involve upward and downward movement on ropes they're still nothing like what we do in regard to angular movement, off vertical climbing postions and limbwalking-type scenarios. 

In regard to limbwalking, DdRT offers a great advantage in that when the running part is pulled down the standing part in turn puts an upward pull on the climber, giving him or her a very effective balancing aid. SRT cannot offer this.

I do appreciate everyone's efforts to advance the techniques, and I think these dscussions are beneficial to all in each of our progressions.


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## Nickrosis (Dec 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gord _
> *Tom the only beef I have with your promoting SRT is you make it sound as tho any progressive climber will eventually switch to SRT. I consider myself fairly progressive and yet although I've worked SRT in a few different situations and it's been convenient in some ways I'd never adopt the technique full time.*


< rant >
I think that any progressive person should learn to use e-mail.

I think that any progressive person should ________.

We can all have our own opinions. I don't see why you should have a beef with someone for having a vision. And besides, how do you know what people are going to use as a technique? None of us can speak for another person. If SRT becomes more popular, great! You should be happy for those people. If it's a safety concern, that's different, but if people find something they like, there's no reason to tell them that SRT is ethically or morally or socioeconomically wrong. 

Essentially, if you can't find a safety reason for why someone shouldn't use SRT, you shouldn't discourage anyone from using it. If it wasn't a competitive technique, it wouldn't be used. Set the beef down or cook it up and eat it. Just don't let it rot. < /rant >


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Gord _
> * Once I climb to the top it doesn't make sense to me to feed my line over my TIP to the ground and have my ground fella tie it off to the base of the tree when I already have my trad climbing setup all ready to go. *





Thats the KISS part I was talking about.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 17, 2003)

I would like to know how you change from ascending mode to descending mode.
If I have it right, going up the rope you might use a handled ascender, a micro ascender (backup), and a Pantin. Then going down just use an I'd. 
What happens in trees where there is a need for a lot of moving up and down. How do you switch? 
Can you use the Pantin effectively below an I'd?

An attitude that asks: "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" keeps a climber using a tautline hitch and stuck in old school forever.


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## SilverBlue (Dec 17, 2003)

Why fix it? Cause that’s the nature of the beast. Innovation brings progression in techniques. You have to imagine the new equipment that will come on the market in the coming years that will make SRT more attractive, new ropes and mechanical devices will be the factor. And we know how Tom has the scoop on the latest products before we even hear a word about them.


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## TREETX (Dec 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> * If SRT becomes more popular, great! You should be happy for those people. *



Is this highschool. Who cares about popular?? Our game is about efficiency and safety. Save me time ($$) and energy ($$). I am all ears. Glad to see there are some people thinking outside the box.

Tree work has a 3rd deminsion that other disciplines lack. I am sure that is why it is still using the techniques that it uses. I am also sure that is why I am addicted to tree work and not tower climbing.

What about those snazzy new systems using a DdRT off of a SRT? 

SRT has not blown my hair back but it is also due to the fact I work monsterously wide trees that are short (shorter ascents). I believe that when I move next month, SRT will be a welcome member in my tool box.


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 17, 2003)

I find SRT in conifers to be the easiest application. Heres the way I set mine up. I'll say that the trees here in Minneapolis aren't 
as big as might be found on the West coast. That said, when I have climbed west coast trees, SRT has been my choice for the 
most part.

Set line using Big Shot as high as possible. Most times I'll do some isolating of my access end of the SRT line. I don't care what 
the other end does as long as it is secure. If my TIP is higher than my BS shot I use any means available to move up. Long 
lanyard, short DdRT line, throwline in the tree. If I do use a throwline I might set the access line higher as I go, depending on how 
the line threads through the limbs. Once I get to my TIP I might have my anchored end untied and send down my end of the rope 
to make the rope go through a straighter path to the ground. What I don't want is so much rope friction that I won't be able to pull 
the rope out later. If my rope is snaking too much, I'll clear it and set a lower TIP once I move down lower. All this time, the rope 
stays anchored at the base. 

If I have to move back up the rope and I'm not able to climb the tree I have to set up some kind of RADS system:

[If the link doesn't work, use Google to search on RADS]

http://www.rescueresponse.com/html/...cueresponse.com/html/news02-02/highlight.html

I've used a number of different ascenders for the top in the RADS. I'm going to use a Ropeman, small biner and pulley. Another option is to use the orange sheave that Petzl sells to slip onto a biner. My goal is to find a compact system. Another option for the upper is a Mini-Traxion since it would do double duty. The RADS isn't considered life support so the gear doesn't need to meet the 5k# rule of ANSI. In one combo I used a keychain biner instead of the pulley with a loop of cord tied into a klemheist. Cheap and compact too. Fottlocking the tail or using the Pantin will make ascent easy but 2:1, if you ascend using the etrier or a foot loop like in the illustration it is 1:1.

My prediction of DdRT becoming eight track is only a prediction. Not any kind of judgement about the skills and techniques of climbers. In this changing profession we might have some other system that hasn't even been thought up now in place by then. Look back ten years and see where you've come from. 

Tom


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## murphy4trees (Dec 17, 2003)

Diferent climbing situations favor different techniques... And yes there is a lot of inertia in the evolution of climbing techniques... 

I just spent two months in Virginia... I doubt 1 in 25 knew about the Blake or 1 in 100 knew about advanced friction hitches... I didn't see a hard hat down there, except on JPS... I wonder what things will be like there in 10 years ???


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## SilverBlue (Dec 17, 2003)

What do they use Daniel? 

I used a KC* knot on my blue streak today for lack of extra equipment, instead of anything fancy and it worked just fine.Had a fun day actually.
Thanks Spydy!


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 17, 2003)

I know what they use!


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## SilverBlue (Dec 17, 2003)

Hey Butch! how's it goin??


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## Nickrosis (Dec 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TREETX _
> *Is this highschool. Who cares about popular?? Our game is about efficiency and safety. Save me time ($$) and energy ($$). I am all ears.*



Please read entire post before quoting/commenting.



> _Originally posted by Nickrosis_
> *If it wasn't a competitive technique, it wouldn't be used.*


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## Higherup (Dec 17, 2003)

One thing I've found very effecient is to set your srt line with a running bowline and leave a 5' tail and tie on my chainsaw and pool saw and go up I can ascend 90' in less than a min and have my equipment waiting for me. also it is very useful when im making just a couple of cuts on the trunk, i leave the running bowline in and tie the tail into me with a buntline and put my figure 8 on and descend.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 17, 2003)

Ain't nothing but a thang!


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## murphy4trees (Dec 18, 2003)

They use the Tautline.... I asked one climber what he used, since he didn't know what a tautline meant, I asked if he used "two under and two over"... He replied "no I Am a speed climber..... I use two under and one over"....
I showed another guy the open faced notch as he was in the process of falling a 30" oak spar, using a botched humboldt dutchman.... I had to cut the open face very deep to get past his cuts, and his saw wasn't cutting straight... Afterwards he thanked me and said how his trees always fall where he wants them..... A few days later he told me that a tree had hit the house 'cause the guy in the truck wasn't paying attention and didn't pull at the right time, though I suspect that he had cut a bypass (dutchman) in the notch and the hinge seized and finally failed....
Later that week I saw another climber removing a big oak topless... I met a bucket operator from Illinois that refused to wear a lanyard when aloft.... He was totally opposed to the idea, when I suggested that industry safety standards where in place based on studiesd of injuries and that if a log went the wrong way and bounced off his upper boom, it could fling him out of the bucket, like a pea off a spoon....
That is just the way it was down there.... Even the big companies working for FEMA, removing roadside brush, didn't wear hardhats of safety vests or use flags much.... That was surprising


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## SilverBlue (Dec 18, 2003)

Thanks Daniel, sounds like some serious training needs to be done in some places.


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## Dan F (Dec 18, 2003)

Not to keep getting too far off the thread topic, but it's not just in Virginia that hardhats and harnesses aren't worn. I have yet to see any of our tree "service" (hacks) companies around here wear any of that stuff. The couple of good companies, yes, not a problem. I'm just waiting for somebody to fall or be the LZ....

Keep up the discussion on SRT though, I'm interested!


Dan


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## jblimbwalker (Dec 18, 2003)

Congrats Lumberjack. You are probably the only 'high school age' climber to be working off of SRT. This site has really taught you alot huh? It's amazing how such a simplistic topic can get everyone's hanes in a wad, and wow, TREETX's direct hit at Nick, or Nickrosis, or whatever, da*m, relax. I'm done posting at this site, been here a 'lil while, but some of the attitudes here are gettin' old. Take care everybody, be safe.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 18, 2003)

I'm trying to remember that line in that Steven Sea-gull CIA movie where they are fixing to cut off that guys feet...

Hmm. Oh yeah.

Nah, ain't gonna say it.

Gonna think Zen thoughts... 150 year old Live Oaks..

Sharp saws..

Ommmmm.


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## mikecross23 (Dec 18, 2003)

Ommmmm.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 19, 2004)

Just bumpin this thread up, and boosting the count. Saves rehashing the same ole same ole.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 20, 2004)

Aw amn, I was going to merge the two threads as soon as the "cheap" one sunk down for a while <g>.


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 21, 2004)

here is mine


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 21, 2004)

another


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 21, 2004)

last one


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 22, 2004)

Interesting attatchment, Nice way to get your rope up with you.

Having only a single tooth ascender may be a techinca problem.

Adding a lower ascender for self belay will add redundancy and hold you closer to the line, easing effort.

Sometimes I will just put a carabiner in at hip high if the ascent is clean. that will hold me close to the rope


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## Lumberjack (Feb 22, 2004)

Like JPS says, the more inline your body stays with the rope, the more effecient the climb will be.

I have found it is easier (for me at least) to take quick small steps when using the pantin.


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## jamie (Feb 22, 2004)

*theory*

just chucking a few ideas round my head,

would using an ascender croll and pantin work, tree junkies pictures look really gear complex and slow to use, 

i figured tie rope onto crotch, climb up and then work off a double rope system when in the canopy, using srt as an asscent method only (well to start with) figured this after watching my boss arse around thrusting up a ????? of a tree and it took him ages, it was beside a nasty fence and he was possitive that if he slipped and swung he would have dragged himself accross the spikes....

and after i abandon srt (attaching ascenders to the back of my harness) i can still use the pantin. on teh asscent taking the spliced eye up with a hitch on it

sound kosher?

jamie


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## Lumberjack (Feb 22, 2004)

*Re: theory*



> _Originally posted by jamie _
> *just chucking a few ideas round my head,
> 
> would using an ascender croll and pantin work, tree junkies pictures look really gear complex and slow to use,
> ...



For ascending SRT i use a closed shell ascender, and the pantin. Many say that the ascender should be backed up, but I don't agree whole heartly. I think that handled, open ascenders should, but a closed shell? 

As for using the pantin on DdRT, that is fine too. If you put a micro pulley, small biner, dog leash snap, under your friction hitch, then it would advance by its self.


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## rbtree (Feb 22, 2004)

Jamie was referring to SRT to get up, then switching to trad for working the tree. I don't think you misread him, but just in case...

Yes, a Croll will work fine, just toss on a chest harness.

Most, thanks to Tom D, call it DdRT.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 22, 2004)

Er... yeah, my secratary messed up and put Db instead of DdRT. Gotta have a talk with her about that.

I understood what he said, but I wanted to say that you dont have to use a super complex system for ascending, then I chased a rabit on backing up an ascender.

Then i said that he could use a micro pulley of the like to tend his hitch, in referance to "on teh asscent taking the spliced eye up with a hitch on it". Which I thought he was refering to a split tail.


Just clearin the mud up a bit.


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## jamie (Feb 22, 2004)

*cheers*

at the moment still using the kit supplied to me, still skint, i now have an extensive wish list....jut waiting for the visa balance to shrink a bit more...

figured that the pantin would be more effective than a footloop as its less space and less hanging around when ive got to the top, and it can be reused in other situations

jamie


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 22, 2004)

In looking at Treejunky's setup. I appears that he has an SRT setup and a DdRt all rooled up into one setup. Am I right on this?


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 22, 2004)

Your correct, it's DdRt over Srt.


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 22, 2004)

TreeJunkie,

When I first saw that setup I thought to myself "too much friggin' gear." Then I took a closer look at it and thought that this is a cool idea incorporating both systems. Is there a simpler way of doing this?


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 22, 2004)




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## TreeJunkie (Feb 22, 2004)

IN regaard to the single toothed ascender being a no no, it's backed up above itself w/ a schwaibisch, I've tried placing a vt at my waste to keep myself close, this has been hit and miss though b/c it's one other thing to untie up in the tree before you can get to working...Yes this system does take a min to set up. but you set it all up from the ground and once you get into the tree you set your stopper knot and unload/disengage the toothed ascender and your off to work no hitches to tie up there or anything too difficult. This system in my opinion is worth the extra minute of set up in exchange for added safety and an easy ascent....


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 22, 2004)

I'm trying to fig out a config that will allow less gear/ cleaner set up, and as i get to using this system i hopefully will, it gets easier to set upthe more often i use it.,,,One thing i've though about is using a microascender above the handled, might make this a neater set up,,,but i don't have a microascender laying around to use at least not yet....The short piece of white rope along side of the handled needs to be shortened, i'm hoping i can find a short spectra quick connect loop runner that would do the job, the one i just bought which hoped would work, is 5", Just about 1/2 inch too short./...


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