# Smallest cc saws anyone has used for milling



## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 11, 2016)

Hi guys, thought I'd launch a new discussion for the small end of the milling spectrum, which I think may be especially useful for newbies to the milling hobby or those on the fence of trying it out. A big saw is expensive to jump into and may not be needed to try out the hobby for most non-pros. What is the smallest cc saw (Brand and Model or other features) you have ever used for milling? Be sure to list what mill you used with it too. 

I'm only on my 3rd year of milling, and I started with a 42 cc Poulan with 18" bar and only vertical milling with a mini-mill. I got it for all of $25 at a garage sale. It did just fine in wood 6" or 8" diameter, and would cut up to 12" diameter but quite slowly. I've found the thinner width chains can make a huge difference in milling ability, even with a small cc saw, due to less torque required in the cut. My 2nd year, I upgraded to a 60 cc Echo cs-590, and it is tremendous for the money. I used this with an Alaskan Mk III with a 28" bar, as well as with a top down mini-mill and freehand without a mill. Milling vertically vs. with an Alaskan also requires a good bit less cc to mill, as the chips can easily get out of the cut and reduce the frictional drag or torque required in the actual cut, which is present with an Alaskan or horizontal mill. I'm thinking milling vertically can require at least 25% less cc of power than horizontal, all else equal, but this is not a scientific study yet. This year just recently got an older 80.7 cc Echo cs-8000 for the bigger work, but haven't used it much yet due to time problem at the moment for me. It is a beast and easily twice as fast in the same job as the 60 cc Echo, but much heavier of course. 

Finally, I've now tried milling with the little-est Echo, a cs-310 with 14" bar and a simple muffler mod and BobL's progressive raker angle at about 6 degrees!! It has an even thinner chain width than the Poulan did and a much faster rpm. It can vertically mill at 31 ccs! Now, it likes not more than 6" diameter hardwood, but can do it quite well, I'd say easily 50% as fast as the 60 cc Echo but better than the 42 cc Poulan did! I like it for trimming the edges of what I mill with the bigger saws for cleanup and also prepping a slab before milling by removing any branch stubs, etc. A wonderful saw for the small branch cutting too up to about 6" or so. I could see the 310 being an awesome wood carving saw, but I'm not into that at this time. Have to say I like it just as much as the cs-590 or 8000, but for totally different reasons of course.

So who else has used a lower powered saw for milling use? What did you do? How did it go? Let's say anything less than 70 cc can qualify for this discussion. - Paul


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## BobL (Jun 11, 2016)

I have used a 50 cc Homelite with 20" bar and a 50 cc Mac 10-10 with a 16" bar.

The Mac was 25 years old and had been a gutsy little saw up until I thrashed it with a long bout of stump cutting.

After I used it in this mill it only lasted for a couple of cuts before it dropped its top end.





I brought back a Mac 10-10 parts saw from Canada when I was there in 2010 and sometime I still want to restore this puppy.

The all plastic homey was given to me by my brother as he'd couldn't start it. I cut a dozen or so short logs using this rig.
Its still in good working order and I use it occasionally as a pruning saw.



Then I was given access to much bigger logs and I picked up an 076 with a 30" bar and before I knew it I had a 42 and the a 60" bar.

Although its a touch over 70 cc my fave small saw is my 441. Its milled several dozen logs and I use if for preliminary carving of nature playground stuff I do from time to time.
I also use it on my monorail mill for vertical cuts.
I run a 25" bar with full comp Lopro chain on it - that alone turns it into a bigger saw.


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## hypnolobster (Jun 11, 2016)

I've done a fair bit of edging 2-6" thick slabs with a MS261. It handled it fine with granberg ripping chain. It's a small enough cut that it didn't really overwork the saw.


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## Blisters (Jun 11, 2016)

I've been useing a 42cc homie on 12 to14 inch pine that is 8ft6. That's on a homemade Alaskan. It has a modified muffler is all I have changed. Takes a lil over 4 min. saw still running like a champ. Works a lil hard but the muffler mod removes the heat well.


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## Jimbo209 (Jun 11, 2016)

Just got a heap of 1/4 chain. If one wanted low profile milling that would be very thin and I expect it should work in small ish logs with a <45cc saw when green

Sent from my GT-P6810 using Tapatalk


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## TPA (Jun 11, 2016)

I was cutting up a small (about 8-10") southern maple with a Worx electric chainsaw, and decided that I would leave about 3 feet of the lower section. I used the electric saw to freehand mill it into 3 planks about 1-2 inches thick. Saw didn't complain and it still works fine. Boards look good too after planing, the saw made a very rough cut.


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## Cedar Eater (Jun 12, 2016)

I used a Stihl MS 250 (45 cc) on around forty 2X12X10' hardwood (oak, soft maple, and poplar) boards. The saw still seems to be running fine. The mill was a crude homemade alaskan style. Before that, I used a Stihl 017 (30 cc) to freehand mill some 8" birch logs into lumber.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 12, 2016)

Great posts and info so far guys! Thanks for your experiences. Keep them coming!! I think we will all learn from each other what people have done! I'm surprised about the electric Worx saw! That is great!

BobL: I inherited my dad's old ProMac 555, which is almost the same as the 10-10 but a cc or two higher. Both were out at the same time in the late 70's. I think the PM555 must have cost a premium as the 10-10s were much more popular. I was cutting wood with him back in the 70's and 80's using a mini-Mac when I was 10 years old while he used the 555. At the time, we burned ONLY wood for heat for several years as my dad had lost his job. In Indiana, it gets cold in the winter, below 0 Farenheit each season. So I love those old Macs! I just recently got a nice Pro Mac 10-10 also, mainly for a parts saw for the 555, which I could never part with. The two share most parts, like 90%. I have about 6 of those Mini-Macs that are in various project states to fix up too! One of the greatest small saws ever made! But the opposite of the modern cs-310 Echo! That is high speed, lower torque, whereas the mini-Macs were high torque, low speed. Fun to use both! The mini-Macs make great little limbing saws, even today, but are a bit heavy. I also like that the Macs share the same bars/chains as the Echos do, so my transition to modern Echo is logical from my many Macs... - Paul


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## abbott295 (Jun 12, 2016)

Sounds like just about everyone has me beat for small saw milling. My son and I started with a reconditioned Poulan Pro 4620(with a few letters after the numbers, maybe AVW) from Northern Tool for about $130. Used it with a Granberg small log mill, the one that only clamps to the inboard end of the bar. We started milling on three red maples that we had planted at the house about 25 years before, maybe even before he was born.

My son did most of that work while I was at work so it doesn't really count as my experience, but he had a couple of cuts where the tip of the bar was buried in the log, by an inch or two. So they were close to 20 inches wide at that point. Also had a time or two that the far end wandered up or down; I don't know if the bar clamp came loose or if chain was dull on one side or what happened. 

Along in there, he found this site. One of the best in the world. (I do live in a small world though.) We still haven't tackled the ~3 foot x 20 foot red oak log we have down on another property which is the reason we got interested in milling in the first place. We have bigger saws for it, but moving pieces from it will also be challenging and getting us together with time to do it have not happened yet. It may be firewood. 

And two of our saws got damaged a year and a half ago when they were in the back of the minivan when it rolled. He says he saw the saws in mid-air in the rear view mirror. Broken handles, fuel tanks sort of stuff. A Stihl 066 Magnum and a Husqvarna 281xp. He wasn't hurt. Minivan was totaled.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 12, 2016)

Jimbo209 said:


> Just got a heap of 1/4 chain. If one wanted low profile milling that would be very thin and I expect it should work in small ish logs with a <45cc saw when green
> 
> Sent from my GT-P6810 using Tapatalk



Hi Jimbo, this is another topic I'm real interested in. I'd like to explore how to use a 1/4" chain on my Echo cs-590 saw with 20" or 28" bars. Nothing is available to buy as premade narrow width chains for this bigger size saw. I need help on how to do it. Would it need a different sprocket? Different bar or could use same bars? I'm learning now how to break and make new chain links with a Granberg vice-grip chain breaker/setter. Who has done something like this? How to go about it? The little chain width on the cs-310 has really convinced me of the merits of thin width chains for milling. I could not believe how well that can mill. I'm not even using a ripping/milling chain on it yet! Just a regular chain but narrow! - Paul


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## BobL (Jun 12, 2016)

Given that even 3/8 Lopro shouldn't really be used on anything more that 28" of bar I wonder how the 1/4" would survive at that length. The problems with small long chains is they stretch too far and will jump the sprocket.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 12, 2016)

BobL said:


> Given that even 3/8 Lopro shouldn't really be used on anything more that 28" of bar I wonder how the 1/4" would survive at that length. The problems with small long chains is they stretch too far and will jump the sprocket.



Ok, well what are the practical limits? What could be used with what max bar length safely? And then how to go about doing it? thx- Paul


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## Blisters (Jun 12, 2016)

I have had good luck with just standard chain and BobL's lowered rakers. If I get em just right the saw really does feed it self. Very minimal effort pushing. Useing that method I'm not so worried about burning up a smaller saw. I can just let it do what I will do and not force it through the cut. That way I'm not worried about burning up my lil homie.


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## BobL (Jun 13, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Ok, well what are the practical limits? What could be used with what max bar length safely? And then how to go about doing it? thx- Paul



The amount of stretch also depends on the power of the saw and the hardness of the wood. 

I can really only speak about my experience with 3/8 (0.063) regular and 3/8 (0.050) Lopro in hardwoods. 
3/8 Lopro generates about a 20% smaller kerf than regular 3/8 but the limit is around 25-28" on a 70cc saw. AS member Mtngun used Lopro on a 36" bar with a 660 in softwood.

Another problem with the 1/4" chain on a long bar will be sawdust clearance. Those little teeth simply cannot pull out much sawdust.

To try it out, unless you can find a hardnose bar, you will need to find a 28" bar with 1/4" pitch sprocket and the right gauge. You will also need to find a 1/4" drive sprocket.


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## Czech_Made (Jun 13, 2016)

I used Solo 651 (baileys branded) and milling most likely killed the saw.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 13, 2016)

BobL said:


> The amount of stretch also depends on the power of the saw and the hardness of the wood.
> 
> I can really only speak about my experience with 3/8 (0.063) regular and 3/8 (0.050) Lopro in hardwoods.
> 3/8 Lopro generates about a 20% smaller kerf than regular 3/8 but the limit is around 25-28" on a 70cc saw. AS member Mtngun used Lopro on a 36" bar with a 660 in softwood.
> ...



Hmmm, good info as always Bob. Well, I could try it on the 20" bar since length is of concern. I'd really like the 1/4" chain in a full skip format so chip removal is not an issue at all then. I don't know if any 1/4" drive sprockets are available for the cs-590/600 series from Echo or what would otherwise fit if it is a more generic part. And where to get that chain too. Another option too Bob might be to try this on my 42 cc Poulan with 18" bar if that worked better. - Paul


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 13, 2016)

Blisters said:


> I have had good luck with just standard chain and BobL's lowered rakers. If I get em just right the saw really does feed it self. Very minimal effort pushing. Useing that method I'm not so worried about burning up a smaller saw. I can just let it do what I will do and not force it through the cut. That way I'm not worried about burning up my lil homie.



YES, my first try with the progressive raker angles is the little cs-310. It really helped to make that milling capable, and I was pretty amazed how well it worked once I did that to the rakers. It will bog down in the cut if pushed into it too much (whereas my 60 or 80 cc saws don't really care), but if just left alone to turn fast and gradually move, it will mill just fine and maintain good chain speed. I used it to mill some little pieces of the Black Locust, which is known to be really hard to mill. Sparks often fly milling it! The high speed of the little echo could mill 4-6" dia pieces just fine! And with a normal chain on it, not ripping chain yet till I grind the cutters to be that way! I'm now convinced of the progressive raker approach and will be using that from now on on all my saws as I regrind them with use. 

You raise one more good point. I think for the little saws, I give them a break for a couple minutes after each longer cut to keep the temperatures down for them. Overheating them is the concern, where for the large milling saws, they are used to the hard work and power generated so don't notice you happen to be using them to do milling for awhile so much. The little saws are like, "OH, THIS is a bit different than my normal job. OK, let's see how this goes!" I think I would *always* muffler mod a smaller saw for milling use to help get the heat out better. Mine are muffler modded. Made at least a 15-20% difference in function for both the cs-310 echo and the 42 cc Poulan saws once modded and milling with them. - Paul


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## Blisters (Jun 13, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> YES, my first try with the progressive raker angles is the little cs-310. It really helped to make that milling capable, and I was pretty amazed how well it worked once I did that to the rakers. It will bog down in the cut if pushed into it too much (whereas my 60 or 80 cc saws don't really care), but if just left alone to turn fast and gradually move, it will mill just fine and maintain good chain speed. I used it to mill some little pieces of the Black Locust, which is known to be really hard to mill. Sparks often fly milling it! The high speed of the little echo could mill 4-6" dia pieces just fine! And with a normal chain on it, not ripping chain yet till I grind the cutters to be that way! I'm now convinced of the progressive raker approach and will be using that from now on on all my saws as I regrind them with use.
> 
> You raise one more good point. I think for the little saws, I give them a break for a couple minutes after each longer cut to keep the temperatures down for them. Overheating them is the concern, where for the large milling saws, they are used to the hard work and power generated so don't notice you happen to be using them to do milling for awhile so much. The little saws are like, "OH, THIS is a bit different than my normal job. OK, let's see how this goes!" I think I would *always* muffler mod a smaller saw for milling use to help get the heat out better. Mine are muffler modded. Made at least a 15-20% difference in function for both the cs-310 echo and the 42 cc Poulan saws once modded and milling with them. - Paul


One thing about a muffler mod. You need to make very sure that you are still running rich enough on the high side. I richen it till it stutters then back off till I know it's only 4 strokeing. Getting the heat out is good but if your not rich enough you still can burn it up.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 13, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Hmmm, good info as always Bob. Well, I could try it on the 20" bar since length is of concern. I'd really like the 1/4" chain in a full skip format so chip removal is not an issue at all then. I don't know if any 1/4" drive sprockets are available for the cs-590/600 series from Echo or what would otherwise fit if it is a more generic part. And where to get that chain too. - Paul





Blisters said:


> One thing about a muffler mod. You need to make very sure that you are still running rich enough on the high side. I richen it till it stutters then back off till I know it's only 4 strokeing. Getting the heat out is good but if your not rich enough you still can burn it up.



Oh yes, any muffler mod needs a retune for sure. Didn't say that but that was implied. Yes, will lean out the saw without a retune richer afterwards. - Paul


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## rarefish383 (Jun 13, 2016)

I used my Echo 305 with 14" bar to split a Black Locust log in half, to make a bench for our campfire, for the Boy Scouts. I always have a saw on the truck. I had recently found my old Haddon Lumber Maker and tossed it on the back of the truck. Some other patrols were dragging logs up to sit on. I sent a couple of our boys on a mission to find a 2X4. We split the log in half, cut 2 24" lengths to notch, and set the main half log in the notches. We had the coolest bench in camp, Joe.


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## BobL (Jun 14, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Oh yes, any muffler mod needs a retune for sure. Didn't say that but that was implied. Yes, will lean out the saw without a retune richer afterwards. - Paul



Although this is more of a problem with exhaust porting, if the muffler is initially severely restricted then a muffler mod may result in there not being enough range left in the H screw to enable a retune and this can end up damaging the saw.


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## Blisters (Jun 14, 2016)

BobL said:


> Although this is more of a problem with exhaust porting, if the muffler is initially severely restricted then a muffler mod may result in there not being enough range left in the H screw to enable a retune and this can end up damaging the saw.


Good stuff Bob that's one reason I don't want to port a saw that's strong to start with. I only open up the muffler and allow it to breath. Most of the time that makes a big difference.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 14, 2016)

That's interesting Bob. I've never run into that but I'm sure it could happen. At that point, I would probably restrict the intake as needed to rebalance the fuel/air ratio and just cover up part of the filter area. I'm finding the modern saws seem to be pretty muffler restricted for emissions. The Echos anyway and Poulans for sure. - Paul


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## Enrico Carini (Jun 15, 2016)

Great thread, I've milled countless board feet with an MS290


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 15, 2016)

This is a bluemax 20". 150 dollars on sale at home depot. 50cc? The mill is made from unistrut and the straight edge is just the straightest 2x4 I could find at the store! Hahaha So far with this saw I've managed to slab and quarter saw a few thousand dollars worth of big leaf maple, garry oak and western cedar for free from craigslist. Bigger IS better, but you can get by just fine with a little chinese saw


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 15, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> This is a bluemax 20". 150 dollars on sale at home depot. 50cc? The mill is made from unistrut and the straight edge is just the straightest 2x4 I could find at the store! Hahaha So far with this saw I've managed to slab and quarter saw a few thousand dollars worth of big leaf maple, garry oak and western cedar for free from craigslist. Bigger IS better, but you can get by just fine with a little chinese saw
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's awesome! Thanks for the info and the nice photos too! I have not heard BlueMax mentioned on AS yet for anything! Great to know it will mill! If you haven't yet, try BobL's progressive raker method and report back on the difference for you! - Paul


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## IyaMan (Jun 15, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Bigger IS better, but you can get by just fine with a little chinese saw



Jesse, I liked your post not because of the saw, the mill you rigged up, or your overall results (impressive though they all certainly are). No, I liked it because the first pic looks like you're milling a quartersawn log in your living room. That sir, is dedication!


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 15, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Jesse, I liked your post not because of the saw, the mill you rigged up, or your overall results (impressive though they all certainly are). No, I liked it because the first pic looks like you're milling a quartersawn log in your living room. That sir, is dedication!




Haha not exactly, I was trying out the quarter sawing setup on some firewood rounds. My parents have a TV and recliners in the shop. But I have dried slabs in the hallway of my apartment when there wasn't any other spot. Lol


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 15, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> That's awesome! Thanks for the info and the nice photos too! I have not heard BlueMax mentioned on AS yet for anything! Great to know it will mill! If you haven't yet, try BobL's progressive raker method and report back on the difference for you! - Paul


Do you have a link to that? I think I get the jist from the name, but would like to see how he does it. Thanks!


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 15, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Do you have a link to that? I think I get the jist from the name, but would like to see how he does it. Thanks!



Oh just go to the CS 101 Milling Thread, usually on the fist page. - Paul


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## Colt Marlington (Mar 3, 2019)

Great thread here. I've been wanting to get started into some light milling. Mostly just hobby stuff.
I've been worried about burning up a saw.
But I have a Poulan 3500 and an Echo 660EVL that I don't have much money in. Both came with new 20" bars, which I think will be long enough to get me started with some outdoor furniture projects.

Also have the 10 year old used 372 with 24" bar that I just got I can use. But it's a hardnose which I don't think would be the best option.


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## Derrinx (Jan 2, 2020)

Im planning to use my 562xp to mill a large red oak with a 32" bar and ripping chain. Hoping for the best.


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## buttercup (Jan 2, 2020)

Derrinx said:


> Im planning to use my 562xp to mill a large red oak with a 32" bar and ripping chain. Hoping for the best.



I've heard skip chains can make a difference, been wanting to try it out but not really needed it yet.


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## Skeena2 (Jan 3, 2020)

I’ve made some 2x7 with a 261. It did okay in a pnw softwood with regular chain. I’ve upgraded to a 60cc 034s to try with this year, might even try some ripping chains.

I’ve been in a cabin that’s 12’x16’x8’. It was entirely milled by a single 55cc 034.


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## WeekendLogger (Jan 7, 2020)

So I just read all of this wonderful info and yet I must ask the following. I intend to use a Alaskan type mill with my Homelite BigRed. My other option is my Stihl MS-271. Either case I need to get a longer bar. What is the longest bar I can used for slabbing a 22"oak. Thanks


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## csmillingnoob (Jan 8, 2020)

WeekendLogger said:


> So I just read all of this wonderful info and yet I must ask the following. I intend to use a Alaskan type mill with my Homelite BigRed. My other option is my Stihl MS-271. Either case I need to get a longer bar. What is the longest bar I can used for slabbing a 22"oak. Thanks



To mill 22 inches in a Granberg (or clone), you will need a 28" bar. You basically lose 6 inches to your clutch cover and the nose clamp. The 6 inches can be reduced a hair, but not enough to let you move down to a 24" bar. 28" is a whole lotta' bar for the Stihl 271 even with a nose oiler which I consider a must-have. I might try the Homelite but save the Stihl for smaller stuff

What kind of oak?

Live oak? fuggitaboutid. Don't ruin your saws.
White oak? Wellllllllllllllllll . . . . . . . . maybe a little, but not regularly
Red oak? Green? doable.


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## andy at clover (Jan 8, 2020)

^^^^yes agree.
Nose oiler for any saw without an H/O oiler.
Even then, most saws need one for bars over 28.
Poling is almost as much a concern as power.
You can slow down the cut feed rate to compensate for less power but that requires more oil.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 8, 2020)

If I'm not mistaken the Homelite Big Red is just an XL12 or Super XL, so your only talking 54 -58CC's. When I got my Super XL925 which is 77CC's, the only bar I had handy with a sharp chain was on one of my XL12's, and it swapped right over. My XL925 now has a 30" bar on it. You could put a 30 on your Big Red, don't think it could pull it.


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## WeekendLogger (Jan 8, 2020)

csmillingnoob said:


> To mill 22 inches in a Granberg (or clone), you will need a 28" bar. You basically lose 6 inches to your clutch cover and the nose clamp. The 6 inches can be reduced a hair, but not enough to let you move down to a 24" bar. 28" is a whole lotta' bar for the Stihl 271 even with a nose oiler which I consider a must-have. I might try the Homelite but save the Stihl for smaller stuff
> 
> What kind of oak?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info It is a red oak, really nice and straight. Just cant bring myself to make firewood out of it. It sound like I should look for a more powerful saw if I want to pickup this hobby. Any chance a new 28" bar would fit both the Homelite and the Stihl. I am just curious since I wont get my BigRed back from my son for a fiew weeks. Kids!! Fast to borrow, slow to return. That way I would just buy one now and have it the next time I go to the farm.


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## WeekendLogger (Jan 8, 2020)

Obviously I have a lot to learn about milling. I am going to start small and work my way to better wood type. Guess I am shopping for a bigger saw.


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## moojpg2 (Jan 9, 2020)

Only time I ever chainsaw mill is to make hardwood bar top or bench top size slabs so never really thought of using a small saw. Smallest saw I've ever used for that is an 066 or MS660 Stihl, usually use my 090 or MS880 for milling though. I'm sure a my 372xp or MS460 would do the job if I didn't have any other option but I'd prefer not to run the piss out of them milling if I don't have to as they are my main saws for felling and blocking down larger trees.


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## andy at clover (Jan 10, 2020)

Not meaning to rain on the small saw idea.

I think most of us have plenty of small wood around and a need for firewood as well which use up less desirable logs.
My interest in milling is for wide thicker (as well as longer) pieces than I can buy or find.
Small saws might be fun to "just try it out" but the small mills they can power are not really worth getting for one or two uses.
A 36" mill seems about the minimum size that makes sense. A small cc saw is not going to pull a bar that makes that mill worth acquiring.


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## csmillingnoob (Jan 13, 2020)

andy at clover said:


> Not meaning to rain on the small saw idea.
> 
> I think most of us have plenty of small wood around and a need for firewood as well which use up less desirable logs.
> My interest in milling is for wide thicker (as well as longer) pieces than I can buy or find.
> ...



I agree with everything you say except about maybe about not buying the 36' mill. Can't you cut as small as 14' with a 36' mill? The difference in price compared to the smaller saws is negligible - and someone who actually likes this physically demanding work/hobby can "grow into" the 36' mill when the urge for a bigger saw strikes (and it will).

Of course, a vertical Haddon lumbermaker or cheaper clone allows one to mill cheaply and, in my opinion, doesn't require as much power or oil feed as the horizontal mills. Just an opinion and I haven't done any comparison tests, but vertical just seems to require less work and oil better. The verticals are one-size-fits-all.


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## moojpg2 (Jan 16, 2020)

csmillingnoob said:


> I agree with everything you say except about maybe about not buying the 36' mill. Can't you cut as small as 14' with a 36' mill? The difference in price compared to the smaller saws is negligible - and someone who actually likes this physically demanding work/hobby can "grow into" the 36' mill when the urge for a bigger saw strikes (and it will).
> 
> Of course, a vertical Haddon lumbermaker or cheaper clone allows one to mill cheaply and, in my opinion, doesn't require as much power or oil feed as the horizontal mills. Just an opinion and I haven't done any comparison tests, but vertical just seems to require less work and oil better. The verticals are one-size-fits-all.



For making a beam or something those things are great but I still use a bigger saw like a 660 on mine with a shorter bar, as all of my 066/660 size saws have the high flow oiler. It's still easy to burn up a bar and chain milling with one of those and if I'm chainsaw milling a beam it's because I need a 6x8 or larger beam that can't be easily had in a dimensional size at the local yard. Anything smaller it's way more time/cost effective to just buy one at the lumber yard. it might be different if I was homesteading or lived off grid or something, but for someone like me that works a regular 9-5 and does this stuff on the side, it's not worth it to chainsaw mill lumber that can be bought at home depot.


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## grizz55chev (Jan 16, 2020)

andy at clover said:


> Not meaning to rain on the small saw idea.
> 
> I think most of us have plenty of small wood around and a need for firewood as well which use up less desirable logs.
> My interest in milling is for wide thicker (as well as longer) pieces than I can buy or find.
> ...


I’ve cut some real nice 24” oak slabs with a 36” granburg mill and an ms440. The vertical beam cutters make fast work on smaller dimensional wood using a 350 husky!


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## ML12 (Jan 22, 2020)

My younger brother has milled with an MS170. I think they're like 35cc's? It was a 10" diameter softwood ornamental type tree, a laburnum. I think he made maybe 4 cuts that were each 4ft long. It evidently did the job, and the saw is still running well.

However, as mentioned above, the oiling was inadequate and he totally roasted the poor chain. The bar was salvaged with some draw filing and deburring.

Can it be done, yes, should it? Probably not.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2020)

I used my Echo 305 which is in the low 30CC range to mill 12 inch Black Locust benches, and BL is hard hard wood. What ever cooked his bar and chain was not the milling. Dull chain, too tight chain, no oil, pushing too hard. The saw doesn't know what it's cutting, as long as the chain is sharp, has oil, and is not forced, it will cut.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2020)

I was following this thread, but went back and reread some of it just as a refresher. The OP said he thought vertical milling enabled the use of smaller CC saws because the chain didn't have to work so hard to pull the chips out? I don't see that. The chips don't fall free till they are clear of the log, the chain still has to pull them out. I think the reason mills are made to use horizontal is because that's the best way to use them.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 25, 2020)

ML12 said:


> My younger brother has milled with an MS170. I think they're like 35cc's? It was a 10" diameter softwood ornamental type tree, a laburnum. I think he made maybe 4 cuts that were each 4ft long. It evidently did the job, and the saw is still running well.
> 
> However, as mentioned above, the oiling was inadequate and he totally roasted the poor chain. The bar was salvaged with some draw filing and deburring.
> 
> Can it be done, yes, should it? Probably not.


Oops, now I see you said it wasn't oiling well. My little 305 throws the oil. It usually runs out of oil before fuel, and you can hear the difference in the sound of the chain instantly.


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## BobL (Jan 26, 2020)

rarefish383 said:


> I was following this thread, but went back and reread some of it just as a refresher. The OP said he thought vertical milling enabled the use of smaller CC saws because the chain didn't have to work so hard to pull the chips out? I don't see that. The chips don't fall free till they are clear of the log, the chain still has to pull them out. I think the reason mills are made to use horizontal is because that's the best way to use them.



One way around this is on a vertical mill is to mill with the top of the bar so the sawdust falls out of the cut. 
However, this requires rigging up something to prevent the saw continuing to want to jumping up out of the cut. 
On my vertical/beam mill the carriage rides on a RHS steel beam and is held on all 4 sides to the beam by brass rollers.




This also enables the mill to work at any angle. 
However this is a plunge/blind cut so the usual side of the bar has to be used



Heres a setup for an angled cut.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 27, 2020)

BobL said:


> One way around this is on a vertical mill is to mill with the top of the bar so the sawdust falls out of the cut.
> However, this requires rigging up something to prevent the saw continuing to want to jumping up out of the cut.
> On my vertical/beam mill the carriage rides on a RHS steel beam and is held on all 4 sides to the beam by brass rollers.
> 
> ...


Duh. I remember a year of two back a guy was trying to mill trees standing upright and that's what popped into my mind when he said a vertical mill. I actually have a Haddon Lumber Maker that is so old I think I paid $9.99 for it. Yes verticle mills can work, I still break out my Haddon now and then if I want to mill 6X6 beams out of pine.


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## csmillingnoob (Jan 28, 2020)

rarefish383 said:


> Duh. I remember a year of two back a guy was trying to mill trees standing upright and that's what popped into my mind when he said a vertical mill. I actually have a Haddon Lumber Maker that is so old I think I paid $9.99 for it. Yes verticle mills can work, I still break out my Haddon now and then if I want to mill 6X6 beams out of pine.



Mine gets the most use ripping the pith board(s) right up the center stressline in the field as soon as I have milled it. It sits in the air-drying stack pretty peacefully if you do this as soon as you mill it. Otherwise, it can cup, twist and mess with your whole stack.

Also, the split is not nearly as violent if you rip it when the pith is green, wet and straight. If you wait till it dries, all kinds of stresses develop and ripping it can cause some violent splits that will jack a saw around dengerously.

It's easier and less space consuming to load a Haddon and a 2x6 than my 10 inch wormdrive circular saw and the generator to power it.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 28, 2020)

csmillingnoob said:


> Mine gets the most use ripping the pith board(s) right up the center stressline in the field as soon as I have milled it. It sits in the air-drying stack pretty peacefully if you do this as soon as you mill it. Otherwise, it can cup, twist and mess with your whole stack.
> 
> Also, the split is not nearly as violent if you rip it when the pith is green, wet and straight. If you wait till it dries, all kinds of stresses develop and ripping it can cause some violent splits that will jack a saw around dengerously.
> 
> It's easier and less space consuming to load a Haddon and a 2x6 than my 10 inch wormdrive circular saw and the generator to power it.


I bought a Makita 14" circular saw last year, never used it once, and I think I'm going to put it in my spring yard sale. My standard circular saw cuts a nice straigh edge on my 8/4 boards.


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## andy at clover (Jan 28, 2020)

rarefish383 said:


> I bought a Makita 14" circular saw last year, never used it once, and I think I'm going to put it in my spring yard sale. My standard circular saw cuts a nice straigh edge on my 8/4 boards.


I use a 10 1/4" "BIGFOOT" for ripping up to 3 3/4" thick planks.
It's better at 3 1/2" and less but, the tooth depth goes to 3 7/8" so it's not unrealistic to go 3 3/4". (although dust/chips clear poorly).
I'm running lots of "softwoods" for timber framing. "4x" is kind of a minimum.
It's a Mag77 motor so not any more power than the typical 7 1/4" worm drive... keepin it slow.

Thought of getting a vertical milling jig for my smaller chain saw but the circ saw is fast and easier to set up.


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## csmillingnoob (Jan 29, 2020)

andy at clover said:


> I use a 10 1/4" "BIGFOOT" for ripping up to 3 3/4" thick planks.
> It's better at 3 1/2" and less but, the tooth depth goes to 3 7/8" so it's not unrealistic to go 3 3/4". (although dust/chips clear poorly).
> I'm running lots of "softwoods" for timber framing. "4x" is kind of a minimum.
> It's a Mag77 motor so not any more power than the typical 7 1/4" worm drive... keepin it slow.
> ...


I'm I'm I'm using the 10-1/4" Skilsaw when I'm in my yard or shop. Love the wormdrive action in thicker hardwoods. It chugs on through 3-1/2" pecan/hicory. However, I use the vertical mill when ripping "in the field." No, the cut with the mill is not a final cut. Like I said above, it's usually just to split a pith board to release all it's stresses prior to field stacking. Also, such a rip where I have a 3-5 inch thick pith board makes it half as heavy to handle.

I always clean up those vertical mill rips with the circular saw after I have flattened the board.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 29, 2020)

I'm putting up some live edge shelves in my garage today, so I'll be ripping some straight edges with the circular saw.


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## Everlef (Feb 19, 2020)

Jesse snowden said:


> This is a bluemax 20". 150 dollars on sale at home depot. 50cc? The mill is made from unistrut and the straight edge is just the straightest 2x4 I could find at the store! Hahaha So far with this saw I've managed to slab and quarter saw a few thousand dollars worth of big leaf maple, garry oak and western cedar for free from craigslist. Bigger IS better, but you can get by just fine with a little chinese saw
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder what kind of chain did you use? Is it a ripping one or whatever it came with the chainsaw? Thanks.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 19, 2020)

Everlef said:


> I wonder what kind of chain did you use? Is it a ripping one or whatever it came with the chainsaw? Thanks.


Welcome to the site. My advice is use standard chain till you learn all of the nuances of milling. Make sure the chain is sharp, don't sea saw in the cut, elevate one end so gravity helps. I found I could make just as smooth of a cut with good technique, and be able to walk over to the wood pile and not have to swap out chains.


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## macstrange (Feb 28, 2020)

I've used an Echo cs 500evl with a 30" bar. I milled a red oak that was about 20" by 10 or 12'. Pretty exhausting. I have to get my 075 running again!


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## BobL (Feb 28, 2020)

I found these photos of my first mill with my Mac 1010
The milling rig and log gripper was designed to hold short logs in just about any orientation from early 2007
I still have the mill but the Mac 1010 died a couple of cuts after this.
I do have all the parts needed to rebuild it under the house.






Same mill in use last year I often use it to square cut flat cookies or stumps for anvils.


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