# Dumb, Dumb, Dumb



## Dale (Mar 17, 2008)

I am infuriated with myself, as I almost lost my life yesterday. I was cutting some Elm that recently died from Dutch Elm Disease. 3 were quite close to each other. I cut one that was just moderately entangled with the other, and as it was falling, I followed it to the ground with my eyes. 1 second later, a 10" diameter branch nearly 12 feet long came down from the other tree from 20 feet in the air, and landed 3 feet from me. It would have killed me for sure had it hit me in the head. What a TERRIBLE mistake to make.


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## johnha (Mar 17, 2008)

Glad you're still here to share that story. Hopefully we will all learn from it.


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## acer saccharum (Mar 17, 2008)

Glad to hear that you had a 'learning experience' and didn't get hurt.


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## Dale (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks Much. The sad part is, I'm not a novice. Been sawing for over 25 yrs. which makes me even more mad.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 17, 2008)

Good to hear you did not get hit. Never stand at a stump, back away swift in a clear escape route and keep eyes out for anything! Many people meet their doom at the stump, especially loggers that are felling through thick canopy as; the standing trees always throw it back at the stump. Of course, a limb could snap and kill you getting into your truck in the mourning.


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## corndogg (Mar 17, 2008)

Glad you had a learning experience. Also another reason to always wear a hardhat or better yet a comfortable helmet. You would definatelly still been injured had it hit you but the hat or helmet will reduce injury. A friend of mine fell and hit his head hard. He survived but a helmet would have made his life better today. If it's comfortable, you'll wear it more.


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## masiman (Mar 17, 2008)

Dale said:


> I am infuriated with myself, as I almost lost my life yesterday. I was cutting some Elm that recently died from Dutch Elm Disease. 3 were quite close to each other. I cut one that was just moderately entangled with the other, and as it was falling, I followed it to the ground with my eyes. 1 second later, a 10" diameter branch nearly 12 feet long came down from the other tree from 20 feet in the air, and landed 3 feet from me. It would have killed me for sure had it hit me in the head. What a TERRIBLE mistake to make.



Thanks for posting Dale. You did not say but rope mentioned it....did you stay by the stump after it started falling or did you use a preplanned escape route? Obviously, you did not check up since you were surprised when the branch hit. What do you think you should have done to better avoid the problem?

I'm not beating on you, just trying to learn from you so I can make it to 25 years of cutting.

Glad you are okay


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## Bermie (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks for posting....you have my respect for going public!

Its especially important coming from someone experienced, it serves to remind us that things WILL happen, no matter how trained, experienced or safe we are. Sometimes its an unforseen event, sometimes its a lapse of attention like you.

Lets ALL learn from this, be it a reminder or new information!
Really glad you are OK.


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2008)

Dale said:


> I am infuriated with myself, as I almost lost my life yesterday. I was cutting some Elm that recently died from Dutch Elm Disease. 3 were quite close to each other. I cut one that was just moderately entangled with the other, and as it was falling, I followed it to the ground with my eyes. 1 second later, a 10" diameter branch nearly 12 feet long came down from the other tree from 20 feet in the air, and landed 3 feet from me. It would have killed me for sure had it hit me in the head. What a TERRIBLE mistake to make.



No...a terrible mistake would be to just shrug it off and not learn anything from it. That's why they call them "widowmakers"

Thanks for posting this.  

\


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## windthrown (Mar 17, 2008)

Yah, good post. I wear my brain bucket felling anything over 10 ft tall. I also wear it when wandering around under the oaks here, which have a lot of dead branches high up. I was felling some firs up in the largest oak stand here a few months ago and some limbs dropped out of the canopy on a clear, still day. Whonk! Wham! Slam! Thud! It can happen... felling or not. 100-200 pounds of wood coming straight down with a lot of time to accelerate. They were 50-100 ft away, but still... saw or no, widdowmakers are out there. 

Your post brings to mind some felling that the guy on AxMen did this week. He cut and left 2 cut trees standing. One tree was leaning wrong so he left it. The next was being leaned on, or he intended to drop it as well by cutting yet a third tree to domino knock the other two down (intentially). Now, this same fellow has about 1/5 of his left hand from a cable yarding accident that cut 4 of his digits off. He runs a saw with a hook on his left arm that he made in the shop (showing it off on the show). Cutting leaning trees, and trees that have leaners on them is dangerous stuff! He just shrugged it off like it was all in a day's work. 

What was the number that they gave? 1/1000 gets killed logging? Not such good odds. I wonder how many live, but sustain major injuries.


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## joesawer (Mar 17, 2008)

A similar thing happened to me, but it hit me in the head. 
I learned what cranial fluid tastes like that day. It was leaking out of my sinuses and into my nose and mouth.
I was sick for weeks after.
I still have a dent in my head.


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## TimberMcPherson (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up reminder, also just to add, if your felling NEAR dead trees with alot of vine about you have to be double careful as it can create wrecking ball like effect with the vine being the cable and hunks of dead tree being the ball!

Thanks mate, appreciate it.


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## Dale (Mar 18, 2008)

Good replies guys. Somebody wanted to know what was learned from this stupidity. Well, I KNEW what could happen by becoming too complacent, I just stumbled into that abyss, and almost payed with my life. I'm thanking the saw God's for sparing me. That is all it was. Simply got too comfortable and complacent. Just goes to show, it only takes 1 split second, 1 poor judgement, 1 wrong decision. Luckily I have another chance.


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## Dale (Mar 18, 2008)

By the way, a lid would have made "the fatality scene" a bit easier to clean up, but they would have been picking spinal column fragments off of the ground. Like I said, BIG limb and long drop.


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## Brush Hog (Mar 18, 2008)

In my arborist course last week we had a safety guy from The Care of Trees and he said that rookies and veterans are the most prone to accidents. Rookies don't know enough and veterans get to relaxed from doing it so long. Glad here you care OK


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## windthrown (Mar 18, 2008)

So that leaves what, dead people and people that do not work around trees as safe?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 18, 2008)

My brother took a widow maker to the head falling a tree a couple years ago. Luckily it only broke his hardhad and left him dizzy. It's crazy how that stuff seems to come out of nowhere sometimes. I bet you never felt so good to be alive and mad at the same time.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 19, 2008)

It blows my mind how many widowmakers I can find at residential locations in a weeks time. I always remove them on principle. It is amazing how little attention some people pay their own trees.

Thanks for posting, Dale. I think that was a gift in more ways than one. It's good to be reminded from time to time just how easy things can go wrong regardless of experience. Keeps us all sharp, thanks for sharing!!


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## Philobite (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm going through parts of our redwood forest with one of these just now to judiciously and safely take out particularly obvious widow-makers. I always wear a helmet, and I'm always steering clear and looking up as I'm working out there.

It's sobering to find a large redwood branch sticking up out of the the ground, broken off, and realize the force it took to drive it so far into the ground. Shudder!


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## Treetom (Mar 20, 2008)

*Another argument for the brain bucket.*

Thanks for the reminder that "anything that can go wrong will go wrong." It's just a matter of time, like, about 25 years, give or take a few. Sharing that story helps keep us safe by reminding us that things we've done a thousand times may not go as we expect the 1001st, time.


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## Haywire Haywood (Mar 20, 2008)

Philobite said:


> I'm going through parts of our redwood forest with one of these just now to judiciously and safely take out particularly obvious widow-makers. I always wear a helmet, and I'm always steering clear and looking up as I'm working out there.
> 
> It's sobering to find a large redwood branch sticking up out of the the ground, broken off, and realize the force it took to drive it so far into the ground. Shudder!



I hope nobody lives within 5 miles of where you're launching those lead widowmakers skyward. They have to come back down somewhere and no brain bucket is going to stop them when they do.

Ian


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## Philobite (Mar 21, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I hope nobody lives within 5 miles of where you're launching those lead widowmakers skyward. They have to come back down somewhere and no brain bucket is going to stop them when they do.
> 
> Ian



Ian, I hear you!

Actually, it's perfectly safe when done properly as in this circumstance. No shot is over 20 yards, all are from a rest with a large light gathering scope, one uses hollow points, which are light and disintegrate into and shatter the root of the branch on impact and shots are only with the large tree trunk mass directly behind, so it absorbs any spall (the root of the supporting branch, not the hanging widowmaker, is shot down). One never shoots the branches from the side where there is no tree mass as a backdrop. Truly, these trees at that height are so broad (18" minimum), the branch roots so large, the load and round type properly matched to the task and hand-loaded, and the range so point-blank close that in the hands of an experienced rifleman it's like shooting into a dirt bank as far as safety is concerned.

I've been shooting and hand-loading, with safety foremost, all my life. My neighbors, distant though they are, are perfectly safe. But a warning is in order: this technique is not for the less than meticulously careful and methodical.


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## Sapling (Mar 21, 2008)

Brush Hog said:


> In my arborist course last week we had a safety guy from The Care of Trees and he said that rookies and veterans are the most prone to accidents. Rookies don't know enough and veterans get to relaxed from doing it so long. Glad here you care OK



You guys are really freaking me out......scary. 
Thanks for sharing with everyone. Hope this is a reminder to everyone, rookie, veteran and everyone in between. Sometimes I think we forget...I always get worried when my partner gets too comfortable in a tree. I have so much respect for what it takes to be a climber (I am not, my partner is) and I commend you all.  
Glad to hear you are ok!


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## Haywire Haywood (Mar 21, 2008)

Philobite said:


> Ian, I hear you!
> 
> Actually, it's perfectly safe when done properly as in this circumstance. No shot is over 20 yards, all are from a rest with a large light gathering scope, one uses hollow points, which are light and disintegrate into and shatter the root of the branch on impact and shots are only with the large tree trunk mass directly behind, so it absorbs any spall (the root of the supporting branch, not the hanging widowmaker, is shot down). One never shoots the branches from the side where there is no tree mass as a backdrop. Truly, these trees at that height are so broad (18" minimum), the branch roots so large, the load and round type properly matched to the task and hand-loaded, and the range so point-blank close that in the hands of an experienced rifleman it's like shooting into a dirt bank as far as safety is concerned.
> 
> I've been shooting and hand-loading, with safety foremost, all my life. My neighbors, distant though they are, are perfectly safe. But a warning is in order: this technique is not for the less than meticulously careful and methodical.



 I'm glad your backstop is at the "forefront" of your mind. I'm a reloader too, although I've not done much of it lately, I don't go shooting nearly as much as I used to.

Ian


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## masiman (Mar 21, 2008)

Philobite said:


> ....No shot is over 20 yards, all are from a rest with a large light gathering scope, one uses hollow points, which are light and disintegrate into and shatter the root of the branch on impact and shots are only with the large tree trunk mass directly behind, so it absorbs any spall (the root of the supporting branch, not the hanging widowmaker, is shot down)....



How many shots to bring one down (min to max num)?


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## Philobite (Mar 21, 2008)

masiman said:


> How many shots to bring one down (min to max num)?



Usually, one shot. Redwood branches are not stringy and elastic like fir (I don't think this would work reliably with fir) and seem to jump off the tree when shot. Also remember that the additional weight of the widowmaker is pulling down on the branch, so it's pretty loaded already.

That being said, I shot three times into one the other day, but it just sagged down and didn't drop the widowmaker. The good thing though is that the widowmaker is much lower to the ground now, about ten feet, more visible, closer to the trunk and smaller branches and will have much less velocity when it does slip off. Three shots is unusual though.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 22, 2008)

Philobite, what cartridge are you using in that piece? I too reload, for accuracy, my best 5 shot group at 100 yards is .300", that is counting all five shots and the rifle is a stock Remington 700. I would guess that a .223 with hollow points would be effective, not sure. Love reloading though, it gives you many options when matching the load to the task.


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## Philobite (Mar 22, 2008)

That's good shooting. Mine is chambered in .270. It's my all around hunting, varmint and trophy redwood branch gun. A .223 might work for smaller branches, just make sure it's hollow points.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 22, 2008)

Thanks for posting and glad you are OK, scary thinking what a few feet of fate could have changed, Be careful.


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 23, 2008)

Glad the limb missed you.

Yesterday I was taking out a darn yaupon. I was down to the last six feet. I decided to kneel at the base and do a simple cut, straight through. No big deal. Well, a rock was above grade just enough to make me have to stop my cut and reach around to finish it. BAM! The stick fell back on my head. At about 3" DBH, I found out that yaupon wood is pretty darn heavy. If I hadn't been wearing my helmet I would have been in very bad shape. As it was, I took the blow on the side of my helmet, stood up seeing stars, shook it off and kept working. I told my ground guy that if I passed out in the next ten minutes, he should get me to the nearest hospital and tell them to drill a hole in my head. It can be the little things that get us on the job. I was so po'd at myself the rest of the day. If that thing had killed me, I would have been so embarrassed---Well, no, I would have been dead, but you get the picture.

Think about each move, each cut, you make. Everybody be careful out there.


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## Frank Boyer (Mar 23, 2008)

I was dropping a dead tan oak and it came down in thirds. The top third came straight down and landed point first about 12' down hill of the stump. The middle third went about 20 degrees away from the bottom third. The bottom third followed the hinge. Very scary!


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## 1953greg (Apr 1, 2008)

im sure every one of us at some time or another has heard the unmistaken "thump" and look around and wondered "where did that come from?". if you havent you will if you live in the woods long enough.


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## youknowwho (Apr 2, 2008)

Exellent post!

Nice job seeing the price you might have paid, ive done the same sort of thing and it is quite the eye opener to say the least.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2008)

corndogg said:


> He survived but a helmet would have made his life better today. If it's comfortable, you'll wear it more.









How ironic, this post with that avatar 

Or is it a poseur sot


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## bigaxjim (Apr 3, 2008)

Hi All,

It's funny reading this thread and thinking how many people make these types of mistakes...both novice and expert...great reminder that one can never be to careful!


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## 046 (Apr 3, 2008)

yup.. that happened to me in this last ice storm. 

a chunk of ice dropped from 50-60 ft up and landed right next to me. 
came from out of the blue... scared the devil out of me! 

yes I had a hard hat on... but don't think it would have made much difference. 



1953greg said:


> im sure every one of us at some time or another has heard the unmistaken "thump" and look around and wondered "where did that come from?". if you havent you will if you live in the woods long enough.


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