# Stihl Ultra Oil....JASO FB rating



## BBush (May 12, 2010)

I know a lot of people on this forum feel that the Stihl Ultra oil is one of the superior oils on the market to run in chainsaws. I was just looking at the back of one of the containers of their oil and at says that it is JASO FB (and API TC/TC+) rated. It is my understanding that the oils that are FC and FD rated are considered better than the ones that are FB rated. Why is the Stihl Ultra oil considered so good when it is only FB rated while some of the other oils that people are using are FC and FD rated? I would have thought that a synthetic oil, especially Stihl's top of the line oil, would at least be FC rated at the least. Am I missing something?


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## ironman_gq (May 12, 2010)

Just because its not on the bottle doesnt mean that it doesnt meet a higher rating standard. It costs money to get something certified and they must not think it will help their sales much by getting the extra letters on the bottle.


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## mikefunaro (May 12, 2010)

Someone at stihl basically told me that stihl engineers doubt some of the relevancy of the jaso ratings to chainsaw use, on the grounds that they are used for testing in motorcycles. I dont think anyone doubts that it is a good quality oil. It's unclear whether there is an aspect of the oil which will not meet the standard for some reason or whether they are not paying to have it tested to that level. You may call omni specialty packaging and speak with them, they should be able to give you an answer. Omni is the blender and bottler for stihl.


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## BloodOnTheIce (May 12, 2010)

mikefunaro said:


> Someone at stihl basically told me that stihl engineers doubt some of the relevancy of the jaso ratings to chainsaw use, on the grounds that they are used for testing in motorcycles. I dont think anyone doubts that it is a good quality oil. It's unclear whether there is an aspect of the oil which will not meet the standard for some reason or whether they are not paying to have it tested to that level. You may call omni specialty packaging and speak with them, they should be able to give you an answer. Omni is the blender and bottler for stihl.



Not even motorcycles, but 2 stroke mopeds.


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## indiansprings (May 12, 2010)

I may be blindly naive, but I don't think the engineers at Stihl would ever comprimise the performance/longevity of putting such an important component of good two stroke performance with out it meeting very stringent standards. I'd guess they've had thousand of hours running engines in test cells with engines being torn down at regular intervals and measured for wear and carbon build up. Not that your question isn't a valid one, after spending good money on a saw you want to make sure it gets the proper diet.


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## JasonBmac (May 12, 2010)

The main differences between FB, FC and FD are detergent levels and smoke. Stihl ultra has enough detergents to keep a saw clean, there is little benefit to providing more.

A saw runs wide open most of the time... A moped at part throttle. The moped simply NEEDS better detergents than teh saw does.

Stihl has likely provided a product engineered for the needs of the machine, rather than the wants of someone else's machine.

JMHO.

J


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## Paul001 (May 12, 2010)

JasonBmac said:


> The main differences between FB, FC and FD are detergent levels and smoke. Stihl ultra has enough detergents to keep a saw clean, there is little benefit to providing more.
> 
> A saw runs wide open most of the time... A moped at part throttle. The moped simply NEEDS better detergents than teh saw does.
> 
> ...



Well stated. Many times people are under the misconception that higher ratings mean you are getting better...


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## tdi-rick (May 12, 2010)

Paul001 said:


> Well stated. Many times people are under the misconception that higher ratings mean you are getting better...



You are, better levels of detergency, less smoke and less splooge in the muffler 

Actually, the JASO tests are for _all_ two strokes, and they measure lubricity, smoke, detergency and exhaust system blocking.

I can't find anywhere it says 'primarily for scooters', in fact it says at notation 3 of the Foreward:

"Although Japan is a major country producing two cycle engines used in *motorcycles, utility equipment, outboard motors, etc. there have been no formal standards for two cycle oils.*
As a result, in the case where two cycle oils of low quality are used in recently developed, high power engines, the engines sometimes have experience performance problems....."
(my bold)


If I can copy out of the JASO procedures/schedules/tests PDF I have I'll post up the relevant sections. (it's a secured file)

Anyway, in a nutshell these are the difference s between the three standards.

Lubricity and torque are identical parameters across all three JASO standards.

Detergency is different between FB and FC in the order of 10 points (85 to 95 on their rating chart) after 60 minutes running on the 'fundamental part' (crown or chamber ?).

FD's minimum is 125 after 180 minutes on the 'fundamental part' and 95 on the piston skirt.

Exhaust smoke is 45 for FB and 85 for FC/FD.

Exhaust system blocking is 45 for FB and 95 for FC/FD. 

They also specify minimum kinematic viscosities, flash points and sulphated ash %

The report I have from '08 states that each test fee and licence is Y40,000.


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## GASoline71 (May 12, 2010)

You're absolutely correct! I will cease using it immediately. What the hell was I thinkin'??? Not readin' all the fine print and havin' the oil diagnosed by a chemist... 


Whatever... 

Gary


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## indiansprings (May 12, 2010)

You're absolutely correct! I will cease using it immediately. What the hell was I thinkin'??? Not readin' all the fine print and havin' the oil diagnosed by a chemist... 


Whatever... 

Gary 

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
rep sent


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## smokinj (May 12, 2010)

GASoline71 said:


> You're absolutely correct! I will cease using it immediately. What the hell was I thinkin'??? Not readin' all the fine print and havin' the oil diagnosed by a chemist...
> 
> 
> Whatever...
> ...



oh crap I have used in the ball park of 100gals+ what should I do Now!


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## REJ2 (May 12, 2010)

I wonder how all this would read if the Stihl oil was the higher certified but the other favorites were not? Imagine the possibilities. REJ2


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## Cantdog (May 12, 2010)

*Not a Flag Waver!!!*

By looking at my sig you will see I'm certainnly no flag waving Stihl guy!! However I use Stihl Ultra these days and have found the least carbon buildup on my saws ever. I've use a number of different 2 cycle oils over the yrs and to date this is the best allround saw oil I've seen. I am no scientist by any means but when the question is asked and responded to with real and factual information why have a bad spell guys??? I am in firm accord with tiresome oil threads however if the question is asked and answered by someone in the know and answers it with credible info, take it for what it's worth. There is no part of a saw that any of us know all the knowledge about. From oil to pull cords. However this is the internet and open to all so please don't give others chit because they perhaps know how to answer the question with accuracy instead of BS!! Don't get all pi$$y Gary just my opionon. LOL!!


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## Erick (May 12, 2010)

I believe I said this in last months oil thread. 



Erick said:


> Now if I haven't ruffled enough feathers with all that..... I'm not really a big fan of Stihl Ultra either...... there I said it and I isn’t ashamed.


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## Andyshine77 (May 12, 2010)

:agree2:Erick I forget, was it last months oil threat or was it the one two weeks ago?


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## GASoline71 (May 12, 2010)

smokinj said:


> oh crap I have used in the ball park of 100gals+ what should I do Now!



You prolly need need new P&C's in all your saws... that oil is terrible!

Gary


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## CentaurG2 (May 12, 2010)

Not sure what ultra does or does not do for chainsaws but I think it was developed by stihl specifically for the 4-mix engine. I used to run my FS130r and all my chainsaws on Husky pro (semi synthetic) at 50:1. Never had a problem in the saws but the plugs out of the fs130 would look like burn marshmallows. These plugs cost $9 bucks each so I switched to Stihl Ultra at 50:1 and now the plugs out of the FS130 look like new. Saws?? Well I ran my ms361 since new on ultra and it developed plenty of carbon on top of the piston. Conclusions? Nothing concrete. Ultra works fine in saws but may not be optimal for chainsaws. I dont think it is any worse than any other oil on the market but is it better?? Why take the chance?? As far as the 4 mixer is concerned, if you run one, run ultra. As a side note, I am currently running the FS130 on saber pro at 50:1. I am interested to see if it makes any difference in this unit.


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## smokinj (May 12, 2010)

GASoline71 said:


> You prolly need need new P&C's in all your saws... that oil is terrible!
> 
> Gary



Thats what I was affarid of will start breaking them down asap!


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## ray benson (May 12, 2010)

tdi-rick said:


> Actually, the JASO tests are for _all_ two strokes, and they measure lubricity, smoke, detergency and exhaust system blocking.
> 
> I can't find anywhere it says 'primarily for scooters', in fact it says at notation 3 of the Foreward:
> 
> ...



Believe the engines used in the tests are a Honda AF27 49cc and a Suzuki SX800R 69cc


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## cpr (May 12, 2010)

I quit using Klotz R50, not rated.

Now I'm using secondhand Rotella from a Detroit Series 60 in a Volvo with a leaky head gasket... Better cooling with that Dexcool right in the fuel.

:spam:
:monkey:
:censored:


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## tdi-rick (May 13, 2010)

ray benson said:


> Believe the engines used in the tests are a Honda AF27 49cc and a Suzuki SX800R 69cc



Yep, you're right Ray, and thanks for posting the complete paper, didn't think of that in my rush to get out the door this morning.


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## tdi-rick (May 13, 2010)

FWIW when Castrol re-named their TTS 'Power 1 Racing TTS' here it also came with a JASO FD instead of FC license.

Talking to one of the Castrol techs one day he wasn't 100% sure but believed it was the same formulation just re-submitted for the new standard, it certainly looked/smelt/performed the same.

and FWIW the oil I use doesn't have a JASO license at all


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## KRP (May 13, 2010)

cpr said:


> I quit using Klotz R50, not rated.
> 
> Now I'm using secondhand Rotella from a Detroit Series 60 in a Volvo with a leaky head gasket... Better cooling with that Dexcool right in the fuel.
> 
> ...



How did you get the D60 in a Volvo, whats your mileage like?.


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## 2dogs (May 13, 2010)

I used Opti 2 for years and liked it the best of all the mix oils. I don't think it is made anymore. I have no idea what the JASO number was, I just know the oil works.


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## ray benson (May 13, 2010)

2dogs said:


> I used Opti 2 for years and liked it the best of all the mix oils. I don't think it is made anymore. I have no idea what the JASO number was, I just know the oil works.



I believe you can still get it. 
http://opti2-4.com/html/opti-2.html


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## cmarti (May 13, 2010)

TDI Rick knows his oil fellas. Trust what he says. Be that as it may, anything more than the valvoline 2 cycle I can get at the mini mart when I buy beer .... may be overkill. We just love to talk oil and think we are accomplishing something. 

The older I get I am much more passionate about the beer than the oil


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## tdi-rick (May 13, 2010)

cmarti said:


> [snip]
> The older I get I am much more passionate about the beer than the oil



and the coffee


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## 8433jeff (May 13, 2010)

I think for every oil thread form now on you participate in, you should have to drink a beer or shot. So I'll be checking back and posting on this a few times. Rolling Rock meets my specifications this week.


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## cpr (May 13, 2010)

KRP said:


> How did you get the D60 in a Volvo, whats your mileage like?.



Sorry, was off my [email protected]$$ meds last night. Anyway, some friends of mine have a Volvo semi with a Detroit Series 60 in it for the pulling tractor hauler. I have no idea what mileage they see out of it. It's nothing special, but it gets all around the country and doesn't leave us at the side of the road.

To tell the truth, I do kinda get the geekiness about oil from an enthusiast standpoint. However, there are a LOT of great oils out there, all of which will keep my 2-strokes running great. The secrets to a great cutting, reliable, fast (if that's your thing) saw, so far as oils are concerned, begins and ends with synthetic at 50:1 or more, period. There are a ton of other ways to get after my saws. Real magic happens with a file, not bottles.


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## dingeryote (May 13, 2010)

2dogs said:


> I used Opti 2 for years and liked it the best of all the mix oils. I don't think it is made anymore. I have no idea what the JASO number was, I just know the oil works.



It's still out there at lots of shops.
it ain't bad stuff.

It's gotta be better than the Extra Virgin Olive oil I run at 223.7:1, but dosn't smell as good!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## KRP (May 13, 2010)

cpr said:


> Real magic happens with a file, not bottles.



Words to live by. I would add a needle valve adjustment tool.

I hope you not superstitious,,, look at your post count.


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## cpr (May 13, 2010)

KRP said:


> I hope you not superstitious,,, look at your post count.



There, fixed it.


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## tdi-rick (May 14, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> It's still out there at lots of shops.
> it ain't bad stuff.
> 
> It's gotta be better than the Extra Virgin Olive oil I run at 223.7:1, but dosn't smell as good!!
> ...




Mmmm, extra virgins...... :monkey:


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## Warped5 (Dec 7, 2010)

2dogs said:


> I used Opti 2 for years and liked it the best of all the mix oils. I don't think it is made anymore. I have no idea what the JASO number was, I just know the oil works.



2Dogs: If you want some, I'll send to you at cost. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## dingeryote (Dec 8, 2010)

Warped5 said:


> 2Dogs: If you want some, I'll send to you at cost. :hmm3grin2orange:



Where ya at in NW Indianna?

I pass through that neck of the woods and tend to take leg breaks at saw shops.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## HittinSteel (Dec 8, 2010)

I did some experimenting in my garage lab...... always thought there was gold flakes in stihl ultra to justify the price. I was very suprised to find out there isn't, so I switched to woodland synthetic.


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## Warped5 (Dec 8, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Where ya at in NW Indianna?
> 
> I pass through that neck of the woods and tend to take leg breaks at saw shops.
> 
> ...



In beautiful Cedar Lake! Jim's Repair Service on Rte 41 is probably the best saw shop in the area ...


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## DavesMower&Saw (Dec 8, 2010)

Because JASO doesn't conduct the testing in ***, the JASO rating means almost nothing to Stihl. The only reason they submit the oil for testing is so that they can sell it in the countries in Asia where a JASO rating means anything.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 8, 2010)

DavesMower&Saw said:


> Because JASO doesn't conduct the testing in ***, the JASO rating means almost nothing to Stihl. The only reason they submit the oil for testing is so that they can sell it in the countries in Asia where a JASO rating means anything.



I must disagree with you here the JASO rating mean a lot and is a stranded many look for. Ultra is good oil, but it's nothing special IMHO, and not worth the price especially considering they're better oils on the market IMHO.


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## mikefunaro (Dec 8, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I must disagree with you here the JASO rating mean a lot and is a stranded many look for. Ultra is good oil, but it's nothing special IMHO, and not worth the price especially considering they're better oils on the market IMHO.



I was going to attack you for expressing your opinion as fact, but since you have all those IMHOs, there's no way I can. LOL. Kidding. I agree 100% Ultra is good but has many equivalents and perhaps superiors as well. It gives me and a few others I spoken with a headache if it's hot enough and I'm in the sun. 

Mike


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 8, 2010)

mikefunaro said:


> I was going to attack you for expressing your opinion as fact, but since you have all those IMHOs, there's no way I can. LOL. Kidding. I agree 100% Ultra is good but has many equivalents and perhaps superiors as well. It gives me and a few others I spoken with a headache if it's hot enough and I'm in the sun.
> 
> Mike



It does have an odd smell IMHO.


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