# 066 twice seized - 2100CP?



## DaltonPaull (Jan 14, 2009)

I bought a well used 066 a few months back to use in my Alaskan saw mill. A few weeks ago I was milling a 24" oak slab and the saw seized up - had some major scoring and stuck rings on the exhaust side and would not run. I bought a new piston from baileys, honed the cylinder and put it back together. Before doing any cutting I reset the mixture by ear. Then I started milling up some cherry slabs. The saw ran great with tons of power but just as I finished the last cut the saw died. I took off the muffler and sure enough, the piston was scored pretty bad.

I've got a big bore kit that I'm going to install on the saw but what should I do to make sure I don't ruin it again right away?

I'm planning to run it a little richer and use Stihl oil (unlike before)

Also, I'm planing to check out a Husky 2100cp later today. It comes with a 40 inch bar and is supposed to run well and be in good but ugly condition. He's asking for $300. I'm planing to do a compression check and see how it runs before I decide if I might want it. Would this be a good backup or alternative to the 066? What about the price?


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## Mad Professor (Jan 14, 2009)

Are you sure there are no air leaks?


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## 04ultra (Jan 14, 2009)

So tell us what caused the first sizure........If you just put new P/C on the saw with out fixing the problem you'll be putting more P/C on it in the near future....


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## Tree Student (Jan 14, 2009)

I've had a similar problem with my 066 and 660, one the problem was the crankcase seal on the pto side and the other was the compression release had too much carbon buildup causing a very tiny leak. The only way we found the air leak on the compression release is by leaving the pressure on for 15 mins and coming back to find it down slightly.

Both of mine ran just exactly as you have described when we worked all day but at the end of the day they were toasted.


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## Zodiac45 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hard too say without seeing it but the first seizure you say you replaced the piston and rings and honed the cylinder. Are you sure that the cylinder was ok after honing? No scoring or carbon and/or probs round the exhaust port or compression release? 
As you stated, I'd definately go a bit richer after the P/C replacement and I think I would not mill with it right off the bat, but maybe run a few tanks through it first just bucking or whatever as too break it in a bit. Milling is tough on a saw in any case and I'd feel better after I'd run several tanks through it and various speeds and not too long at any one trottle setting. I'd do the leakdown test also too be sure, but if the saw was idling well and steady then the seals are probably ok.


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## DaltonPaull (Jan 14, 2009)

*Air leaks?*

I thought that the first seize happened due to a lean mixture which is why I reset the carb. So either I'm wrong and there was an air leak or other problem or I still didn't set the mixture rich enough.

I guess I assumed that there where no air leaks because it ran well. Maybe I didn't take as good a look at the intake boot last time as I should have. This time I'll look it over really well. Is there anywhere else to check for an air leak? The piston looked fine on the intake side so at least I don't think there was crud getting past or around the filter.

There was quite a bit of damage to the cylinder the first time - I honed it quite a bit. There where still a few small scratches above the exhaust port but I didn't think I should take off any more material. Besides the scratches it looked good so I thought I could get away with it. Before I fired it up the compression was 140psi which seamed pretty good for not being broken in.


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## DaltonPaull (Jan 14, 2009)

Tree student-
My saw is old and has no compression release so that wasn't it. How did the crankcase seal let air in?


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## glennschumann (Jan 14, 2009)

Leaks could come from many places... crank seals (either side), the impulse line, bad case gaskets (between the two halfs) a crack in the case, bad cylinder base gasket, cracked intake boot... I'm good with a wrench, but I did take my 066 to the shop for pressure testing. Mine ended up being the crank seals, impulse line and cylinder base gasket... I probably could have never found all that myself. It runs great now,I have no problems and a Stihl tech was employed... but I am a bit poorer. For the price of a BB kit, you can probably have your saw diagnosed, and maybe fixed.


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## FJH (Jan 14, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> I bought a well used 066 a few months back to use in my Alaskan saw mill. A few weeks ago I was milling a 24" oak slab and the saw seized up - had some major scoring and stuck rings on the exhaust side and would not run. I bought a new piston from baileys, honed the cylinder and put it back together. Before doing any cutting I reset the mixture by ear. Then I started milling up some cherry slabs. The saw ran great with tons of power but just as I finished the last cut the saw died. I took off the muffler and sure enough, the piston was scored pretty bad.
> 
> I've got a big bore kit that I'm going to install on the saw but what should I do to make sure I don't ruin it again right away?
> 
> ...



The 2100 is a good milling saw!You have to make sure you keep the carb and carb adpter tight as they tend to rattle loose and cause the exsact problem you are having with the stil! I always ezz up mid cut to listen to hear if anything is a miss with the set on the saw!I set the hi end so its running with a bit of a spatter to the sound (rich) if it runs clean at the top end no load Its running too lean for milling.I run 2 - 2100's (one spare) I assemble carb parts and adapter with silicone on the bolts to help keep them from coming loose!Same on the muffler end.I have also made my own exhast staight pipe no muffler.This works well but pretty noisey.Ear plugs AND ear muffs a requirment.


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## lumberjackchef (Jan 14, 2009)

Sound like your pretty good with a wrench and not afraid to experiment to learn new things. For a small investment you could buy seals and gaskets, build a couple of tools to split the case, tear it down and rebuild it from the ground up. Then you know you will have a good reliable milling saw. I learned how to do all of that from the members here at AS and have completely rebuilt 2 different 066's that performed better than stock (learned a couple of minor mods too!). That was a couple of years ago and they are still performing very well. You'd be surprised if you have the tools and every part that you will need it really doesn't take as long as you think to get er done. If you're interested here is a link to alomst everything you could need for that project-http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=40590

It was a great learning experience and I had a blast. Nothing like thrill of firing it up for the first time when you know that just a couple of days ago it was laying on the table in a million pieces.


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## DaltonPaull (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for all the input so far!

I've torn down the saw and the only suspicious thing so far was that there was a large sucking sound when I removed the carb. Couldn't tell if it came from the line that goes to the crank case or the line that goes to the fuel tank. The sucking sound prompted me to check the little vent(?) that's located just over the fuel tank cap. As far as I could tell it was dirty and clogged but it has what looks like a set screw in it. What is this supposed to do?

I would like to get to the point where I can do any repair on this saw my self. I'm planning to be milling for a while and Imagine there will be many more problems down the road.

I think I might try to put together a pressure test setup. What are your favorite methods of plugging the intake and exhaust?


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## 056 kid (Jan 14, 2009)

Cd, 2100 Cd


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## oldsaw (Jan 15, 2009)

My 066 has milled hundreds of bft of hardwoods and the insides still look like new. The outside, not so much, but I don't care about that part. It was a real BC logger's saw that is now in semi-retirement. Rode hard, put away wet, and now not used nearly enough.

Mark


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## epicklein22 (Jan 15, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> My 066 has milled hundreds of bft of hardwoods and the insides still look like new. The outside, not so much, but I don't care about that part. It was a real BC logger's saw that is now in semi-retirement. Rode hard, put away wet, and now not used nearly enough.
> 
> Mark



Wow, what the heck you doing posting outside of the political forum? Next thing I know, Deeker or Goblin will be joining you. J/K. Give the man some help or advice though. We all know you are free speaking..... 

To the original post, follow the advice about pressure/vac testing the saw. Until you do, you will only be guessing as to what causes the problem. If you don't want to go through the hassle of testing the saw yourself; your dealer should be able to do it for a nominal fee.

The 066 and 2100 have the power and grunt to get the job done. The 2100 is an older model and parts are becoming harder to find. As for the 300+ price tag, too much in my opinion. If you play your cards right, better deals are out there. Prices are slowly sliding as everyone is worried about what the future holds.


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## Griffbm3 (Jan 15, 2009)

Since you said the case is torn down, I would take it in for a leak down/pressure test unless you are equipped for this yourself. reason being, I have never had to do seals a second time. With that said, you will be able ot mill you heart out on one set of seals. 

Look carefully at the entire flywheel. If the previous owner tried pulling it off with a jaw puller and cracked it, or broke a fin off the flywheel, it would run "fine", but the vibration could be enough to wollow out the flywheel side seal. Lost a bearing and seal to that once from a friend who "worked" on my saw when I leant it to him.

One thing that I do for seals. I bring a carcasss completely torn down to my local shop. I tape a $20 bill for a test, or $40 for the test and install and place it on the counter. But I only do it if the case is completely torn down. 

As far as the 2100CD, pass on it. Have you seen what an ignition goes for? better yet, have you seen an ignition? I wouldn't bother with it, they are awesome saws, but you need 2 to make it right. You should rebuild the heck out of your 066.

Jason


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## oldsaw (Jan 15, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> Wow, what the heck you doing posting outside of the political forum? Next thing I know, Deeker or Goblin will be joining you. J/K. Give the man some help or advice though. We all know you are free speaking.....
> 
> To the original post, follow the advice about pressure/vac testing the saw. Until you do, you will only be guessing as to what causes the problem. If you don't want to go through the hassle of testing the saw yourself; your dealer should be able to do it for a nominal fee.
> 
> The 066 and 2100 have the power and grunt to get the job done. The 2100 is an older model and parts are becoming harder to find. As for the 300+ price tag, too much in my opinion. If you play your cards right, better deals are out there. Prices are slowly sliding as everyone is worried about what the future holds.



The point being that he fixed the broken part but not the problem. Ditching the 066 because you didn't fix the problems makes little sense and caused the scoring. Find the real problem and fix it, the 066 is a great milling saw.

Mark


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## BlueRider (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't have either of the saws in question, but I do own two saws that I use exclusively for milling. I opted to invest more money in a second saw that is the same model as the one I alreay owned rather than a second saw that was a different model even if it might be a better saw. My decision was based on a limited budget and the ability to use the second saw as parts for my other saw as well as using the same bar and chain for both keeps me milling with the least amount of cpaital. It also lets me make repairs when money is tight. I can also use my spare air filters, carburators, spark plugs, rim sprockets, ignitions, etc to keep both saws running rather than having to have two different sets of spare parts. 

As others have said both saws are top notch models. I don't own a 2100 and have never run one but I do know they have a reputation for being hard to find parts for. I run 051's and an 075 they are older than the 2100 but parts are easier to find and many parts are still available from my local dealer. the 066 was also a popular saw and parts are still available from the dealer and parts saws are easy to come by.

The little set screw is the gas tank vent and is original from the factory. Some models even have two set screws. Look over on the chainsaw forum for help in how to do your own pressure test. It is not dificult and will give you a skill to use rather than spending money you could use on parts. Besides the carb boot the other thing to check is the limiter valve if the carb has one. Some guys will pull it off and put a piece of a soda can under it which disables it. The higher rev's might be fine for dropping a tree but they can be disasterous for milling.


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## DaltonPaull (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm not planing to ditch the 066 - I'm persistent and it will be fixed. But I do like chainsaws and having a spare for milling seams like a good idea. There is wood I would be cutting right now if I had a spare that was up to the task.

Anyway, I decided against the 2100CP - parts seam to be a little on the expensive side with lower availability than Stihl. I think I'm going to keep an eye out for an 070 or 090.


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## Rockfarmer (Jan 16, 2009)

Out in Oregon your in lumberjack territory!! There should be all kinds of big ol saws kickin around  One thing we do with sleds up here in NE is while its idling we spray the intake, clutch side, mag side with wd 40. If the idle picks up at all you know you got a leaky seal. Just a thought,..


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## Zodiac45 (Jan 16, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> I'm not planing to ditch the 066 - I'm persistent and it will be fixed. But I do like chainsaws and having a spare for milling seams like a good idea. There is wood I would be cutting right now if I had a spare that was up to the task.
> 
> Anyway, I decided against the 2100CP - parts seam to be a little on the expensive side with lower availability than Stihl. I think I'm going to keep an eye out for an 070 or 090.



Your seals may well be ok. That "big sucking sound" is actually a good sign that your crank seals might be ok. If the saw was idling steady throughout then the seals are probably good. You can pressure test it with bits of tire tube cut too fit the exhaust and carb sides but be carefull not too over pressurise it either or you WILL have problems. Based on your posts, I'm honestly thinking that your first top end rebuild went bad due too you trying too rescue that scored cylinder. You've got the BB kit now and should be fine as long as you keep it on the rich side (maybe 40/1 mix too) and break it in a bit before going direct too milling. Good Luck.


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 3, 2009)

*Improvised presure test*

I improvised a pressure test and I think the results where good.

What I did is cover the intake and exhaust ports with pieces of old bicycle tubes, plug the impulse line and adapt the spark plug fitting from my compression gauge to fit a bicycle pump. Because the valve on the bike fitting wouldn't stay open, I couldn't monitor the pressure with the gauge on the pump - so what I did was pump the saw up to about 7psi, remove the pump and wait five minutes. Then I released the valve and listened to the air rush out. I then pumped the saw up to 7 psi again and released the valve immediately and it sounded like the same amount of air rushed out. Not quite as good as monitoring the actual pressure, but I think it indicates that little air if any was leaking.

Sound good enough?

Baileys finally shiped out the compression release plug for the big bore kit and I should have it tomorrow. So, I think the plan is to put it together and give it another try. 

Maybe I'll post a video of how it sounds/cuts once it's back together and see if anyone can hear any problems.


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## excess650 (Feb 3, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> Baileys finally shiped out the compression release plug for the big bore kit and I should have it tomorrow. So, I think the plan is to put it together and give it another try.
> 
> Maybe I'll post a video of how it sounds/cuts once it's back together and see if anyone can hear any problems.



The 066 that I've run on the mill has a BB kit in it. The intake boot was questionable, and the base gasket too thick, so were replaced. It was tuned to 12,500 with dual port cover on the muffler. 

I ran a couple of tanks through it prior to putting it on the mill, and then tried it on some 18" logs. It blasted right through with no problems. Later, I milled a 36" dead, dry oak log. It definitely loaded the saw, and I tried to not push it too hard. I made 9 cuts up to 30" wide and 8' long, paused between, and during cuts to allow the saw to idle a bit, move wedges, add fuel and oil, etc. Later, I pulled the muffler and had a look at the piston. It looks new!

Use fresh premium gas mixed with good mix oil. I'm running a synthetic blend at 40-1 for a little extra oil. Be sure to tune it rich. If it 4 strokes at 13,000, tune it richer to 11,500 - 12,000 for more fuel and its added cooling.

Check the squish with the BB kit. .025"-.030" is probably a safe number to shoot for. Be sure the base gasket clears the piston. The .5mm base gaskets that I've tried don't clear the skirt of the piston. They either need to be modified, or else find a different gasket. The 1mm gaskets do clear, but may lower compression too much. Don't modify the ports in the BB cylinder. Some reports of ring/piston failure have occurred with the BB kits, but it seems odd that the reports have come after the ports were modified. It makes me think that maybe they weren't chamfered properly and caught a ring. 395XP rings can be substituted for the grooved rings supplied with the kits. Be sure to check end gap and fit in the piston.

The 066/660 is a great saw and will run for a long time if maintained properly.


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks for the tip on the base gasket - I'll watch out for that. I've got a new Stihl gasket and the gasket in the gasket kit from Baileys - hopefully one will fit. Otherwise I gues I'll get out the razor blade and try to give it a trim.


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 3, 2009)

Here's a picture of the piston from the first rebuild. Pretty ugly hugh? I'm not sure what's up with the discoloration on the pin? I'm putting in a new piston bearing this time....


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## pa.hunter (Feb 3, 2009)

*what oil mix are you useing*



DaltonPaull said:


> I bought a well used 066 a few months back to use in my Alaskan saw mill. A few weeks ago I was milling a 24" oak slab and the saw seized up - had some major scoring and stuck rings on the exhaust side and would not run. I bought a new piston from baileys, honed the cylinder and put it back together. Before doing any cutting I reset the mixture by ear. Then I started milling up some cherry slabs. The saw ran great with tons of power but just as I finished the last cut the saw died. I took off the muffler and sure enough, the piston was scored pretty bad.
> 
> I've got a big bore kit that I'm going to install on the saw but what should I do to make sure I don't ruin it again right away?
> 
> ...


just wondered 32:1 is what you should use and use good oil milling is tuff on saws


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## epicklein22 (Feb 3, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> I improvised a pressure test and I think the results where good.
> 
> What I did is cover the intake and exhaust ports with pieces of old bicycle tubes, plug the impulse line and adapt the spark plug fitting from my compression gauge to fit a bicycle pump. Because the valve on the bike fitting wouldn't stay open, I couldn't monitor the pressure with the gauge on the pump - so what I did was pump the saw up to about 7psi, remove the pump and wait five minutes. Then I released the valve and listened to the air rush out. I then pumped the saw up to 7 psi again and released the valve immediately and it sounded like the same amount of air rushed out. Not quite as good as monitoring the actual pressure, but I think it indicates that little air if any was leaking.
> 
> ...



Gonna make this short and sweet. The test you did doesn't mean jack. Take the saw to the dealer and have it properly tested. Any leak will eventually get worse and you will be starting over again!!!


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 3, 2009)

I appreciate the input (short but not sweet.) You forgot that you are talking to someone who wants to work on his own saw. A better answer might be "there's no substitute for monitoring the actual pressure, even if the pressure drops from 7psi to 6psi in five minutes you have a leak that needs to be repaired and there is no way you could hear the difference...." 

If I ran the saw for a living I suppose I'd be off to the repair shop but that's not the case.


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## RPM (Feb 3, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> It was a real BC logger's saw that is now in semi-retirement. Rode hard, put away wet, and now not used nearly enough.
> 
> Mark



LOL


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## user 19670 (Feb 9, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> I appreciate the input (short but not sweet.) You forgot that you are talking to someone who wants to work on his own saw. A better answer might be "there's no substitute for monitoring the actual pressure, even if the pressure drops from 7psi to 6psi in five minutes you have a leak that needs to be repaired and there is no way you could hear the difference...."
> 
> If I ran the saw for a living I suppose I'd be off to the repair shop but that's not the case.



Well, thar ya are! The decision is made.
Makes me wonder what this thread was all about anyway? Online opinions without the option to actually see and feel the parts don't mean much. All anyone can do is guess. Takes money to put a saw back together just to "see what happens". 

Anyway, major scoring will never be repaired by honing. You wanted to do half a job and you got what you paid for. Now you don't want to take advice?


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## BobL (Feb 9, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> \
> 
> What I did is cover the intake and exhaust ports with pieces of old bicycle tubes, plug the impulse line and adapt the spark plug fitting from my compression gauge to fit a bicycle pump. Because the valve on the bike fitting wouldn't stay open, I couldn't monitor the pressure with the gauge on the pump - so what I did was pump the saw up to about 7psi, remove the pump and wait five minutes. Then I released the valve and listened to the air rush out. I then pumped the saw up to 7 psi again and released the valve immediately and it sounded like the same amount of air rushed out. Not quite as good as monitoring the actual pressure, but I think it indicates that little air if any was leaking.
> 
> Sound good enough?



Not really. 

- You have to be able to watch a pressure gauge. Just as important as a big leak is a small one since this may turn into to a bigger leak after 5 or 500 minutes of saw use.
- where's the opposite test - under vacuum?
- it's also useful to be able to turn the crank over with it under pressure/vacuum to see if it leaks under different positions.


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm working on getting together a kit to do a proper pressure test. I'd like to be able to do it with the flange installed in place of the carb so that I can check the entire final assembly.

I pressure tested it again using my air compressor and although I still wasn't 100% sold on the method, the results looked good. The saw is back together with the BB kit now and runs great. I'm keeping a close eye/ear on it and doing more things that I'd never thought of before like letting it idle to cool down after a long cut and pausing during a really big cut. When I have the pressure test kit together I'll test it again, more accurately and go from there. 


> Makes me wonder what this thread was all about anyway?


Different people have different opinions and give different advice - some good some bad. There is no way to follow all of it. But the point of this thread for me when I started it, was to learn more about what problems can cause scoring on the piston. I feel like I've learned a lot - when I started I didn't even know what I pressure test was. Now I have a repair manual (thanks to lumberjackchef) and am continuing to grow my knowledge. 



> Anyway, major scoring will never be repaired by honing. You wanted to do half a job and you got what you paid for. Now you don't want to take advice?


I wasn't sure if it could be saved or not - I ordered a $30 piston and a BB kit at the same time just in case. Sure, it ended up being a waste of $30, but I wanted to give it a try and next time if the scoring won't 100% hone out I'll know better.


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