# traverse from tree to tree



## smokey01 (Aug 18, 2012)

Does anyone have suggestions about how to traverse from tree to tree or branch to branch. I am not talking about having someone on the ground hand you a new throw line or a buddy in the other tree. Anyone with experience with the yella grapple? Of course the challenge is to get both ends of the throw line in hand so that you can set up another line. 
Thanks


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## beastmaster (Aug 19, 2012)

Many years ago I made a grapple to use so I could traverse from one tree to another. It worked alright most the time. Some times it would unexpectedly come loose and you would swing back into the tree pretty hard.
Better but more time consuming was using a throw line. After getting it over a good branch, and letting the throw ball down some, I would use a homemade device, a fishing weight with wire hooks. You could attach it to the piece of throw line still in your hand via a small loop, and feed out line tell the weight took it next to the throw ball line,(now both vertical) then try to catch the other line on one of the hooks and pull it back to you. Then just a matter of pulling a climbing line through. 
Back then I used a 8 plate on one side and a taunt hitch on the other pulling my self over. I could think of a lot better ways now to rig up my lines. With out help on the ground those might be your only two options. 
I think if you could get your rope rigged right, you could zip line your self from one tree to another, or use two cambrien savers with pulleys on each side and and hand over hand to the other side. Being hook to two ropes, its not that easy to pull and give at the same time to traverse horizontal. It's easier to secure the rope in the other tree, then slowly lower your self. Bad thing about that is you'll be the distance of the two trees, lower when you get there. 
Hope to of at lest gave ya some food for thought.


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## Rickytree (Aug 19, 2012)

Grabber

been wanting one of these for awhile but I got the wraptor so been holding off. Dont get to much call for it.


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## moss (Aug 20, 2012)

The throwline technique Beastmaster described is what I do, I know the technique as "The Dangle". I demonstrate in this video, I'm primarily demonstrating a custom slingshot to make the throw to perform the Dangle but if you have a clear enough path you can throw by hand. Reality in woods situations is there's very rarely a clear path so some type of throwing device is really helpful:
https://vimeo.com/26036153

I'm setting a single rope traverse in the video but the technique can be used for a DRT traverse as well. That was the first time I set a solo single rope traverse up high so you get to enjoy my nervousness going over ;-)

Here are some drawings showing the technique:
A. Traverse setting technique | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

-AJ


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## smokey01 (Aug 22, 2012)

moss said:


> "The Dangle". I demonstrate in this video,
> 
> Here are some drawings showing the technique:
> 
> -AJ



Moss, I have watched your video several times and love it, especially the spot where you are started across and hear a branch break :msp_w00t: Incredible! Your drawings are also very impressive and informative. Exactly the information and ideas I was hoping to find.
What a great forum.
Thanks


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## imagineero (Aug 23, 2012)

Nice post Moss, 
I've seen a lot of your stuff on other forums as well, always enjoyable to read, but I'm not so sure this sort of technique is practical for production environemt climbers. Certainly a big labour saver for seed gathers etc, and of some academic interest as well. 

In a production environment, it's fairly rare to need to traverse trees at very large heights, very few customers are going to ask "could you take off just the one branch at 110' on each of these 10 trees that are within 20' of each other?" Depending on what sort of earea you are working in, you may get this sort of work from time to time. If you do get frequent trimming of very tall trees then by all means invest in a wraptor, you could cover the cost on 2 or 3 jobs if you get that sort of work.

For the more frequent occasional job with 2 trees alongside or similar, you can save yourself a lot of grief by just setting a line in each tree from the ground, canopy permitting. I can't imagine that video moss posted needs much less than half an hour from the time you start shooting throwlines to the time you are in the other tree, even for someone moderately proficient.... A lot of money if you have a crew and chipper on the ground. 

Shaun


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## smokey01 (Aug 23, 2012)

imagineero said:


> Nice post Moss,
> I've seen a lot of your stuff on other forums as well, always enjoyable to read, but I'm not so sure this sort of technique is practical for production environemt climbers. .................... A lot of money if you have a crew and chipper on the ground.
> 
> Shaun



Shaun, 
Your points are well taken and with merit. I posed the question because I am new to climbing, (excluding when I was 12 and would go over 120' in the tall fir trees of Oregon and I think that was before Petzel even started) anyway, I started recreational climbing a few months ago and want to learn everything about it and the equipment and methods. And I am learning...THERE ARE MANY!...to say the least. Funny thing, first time I went to our Atlanta treeman and he demonstrated the blakes hitch with a prusik foot loop and I though, so that is how it is done.... wow, have my eyes been opened since then. I went to the recent competition on Portland Oregon and trade show.........again....just WOW. 
I see from Moss's posting that that is probably the "max", but I see where it would also be very helpful for the 10-20 foot horizontal moves in the same tree. Some of those that are just out of the long pole sort of reach. I'm not sure I want to be hauling around one of those long poles anyway. At any rate, I find all of this and what you guys do very impressive. I put this post on the "Recreational Tree Climbing thread" as that is pretty much what I am doing, although I would enjoy some tree work for the elderly or poor that cannot afford "the real pros". Taking down widow makers and downing dead hazardous trees and such. 
So, again, thanks for your input and the pictures and video from Moss. I hope to go to Costa Rica and climb some of the giant trees they have, and moving around the tree with these methods will be awesome as opposed to getting back on the jungle floor. 
Thanks and I would hope to have more input on this subject
P.S. Do you think I could supervise a crew from my chair? Maybe I could be the Boss. 


View attachment 249780
View attachment 249781


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## smokey01 (Aug 23, 2012)

*Supervisory position*

Supervisory position 

View attachment 249784
View attachment 249785
View attachment 249784
View attachment 249785


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## imagineero (Aug 24, 2012)

My bad - hadn't noticed that I was replying in the rec climbing forum! I thought this was in 101. 

Traversing as a recreational method is its own reward, a high traverse can be pretty exhilarating. I haven't done a lot of tree traversing because all my tree climbing is for production.... so even when you get to do t you often don't have time to savor the moment. I have some nice memories of doing tyrolean's between cliffs a few times, and with a large drop off below it certainly got the heart beating!

One point perhaps worth mentioning is to pay some care to the angle of the line between the trees. Some people are tempted to make the line as taught as possible because it makes for an easier traverse. The trouble is that a taught line will place enormous loads on the trees, and may cause structural failure in some cases. Be sure and make sure you're on a stem with good integrity, and try to keep the line loose-ish. 15 degrees of drop is enough that you've taken most of the load off. 

When I travel between trees I often have a line set in each one from the ground. or sometimes use this technique for trimming large spreading trees without a good high point. When I'm ready to go to the second tree, I take up tension on both lines then dangle. I slowly pay out on the line from the tree I'm leaving, and as you do that you natural swing into the second tree. You obviously lose some altitude, but if you've got a few 100'+ trees to dead wood and they're near to each other and you don't have a wraptor then it can save a lot of rope work. 

Shaun


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## moss (Aug 24, 2012)

Good stuff Shaun. Definitely in a production environment you'd have ground help to make it happen, so methods will be different. When I've set traverses with help on the ground or a climber in the other tree it goes real fast.

The ALB survey climbers in the northeast I've all talked to have very quick solo traverse techniques (no help from the ground). They have to cover so many trees in one day they can't mess around. Monkey fist flipped into the next tree and jammed into a crotch is a popular way to do it.

Also good heads up on tensioning a single rope traverse, no point in getting any kind of serious tension, as you said 15 degrees or greater is a good guideline. Load forces get increasingly insane when the angles get shallow. Be ready to have a good method to climb the incline going up the other end of the traverse (you need a progress capture). Some climbers I know refuse to use a toothed ascender for that purpose. I have but it's smart to advance and load an aggressively toothed ascender real gentle. Microcender is my favorite rope friendly progress capture.
-AJ


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## moss (Aug 24, 2012)

One way I've done it team climbing is go up, set the rope going across and have a climber on the ground anchor the rope at the base of the starting tree. That way multiple climbers can go across and the start side of the rope can be taken out from the ground when you're done for the day. Different ways to do it, both ends can be anchored on the ground as well if you have enough rope.
-AJ


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## smokey01 (Sep 18, 2012)

*"serious tension"*



moss said:


> Also good heads up on tensioning a single rope traverse, no point in getting any kind of serious tension, as you said 15 degrees or greater is a good guideline. Load forces get increasingly insane when the angles get shallow.
> -AJ



Just want to add some thoughts on the "serious tension" and dangers I see. 
Let me just work a couple of thoughts.
If I set up a traverse from branch to branch or tree to tree and I go more than 120 degrees, I start to increase the force subjected to the anchors. Let us say for example I have two anchors next to each other, in other words I am hanging my weight between two branches and the rope is at, for all practical purposes, 180 degrees. (Not much of a traverse I know) I have shared my 200 pounds with each point making the force 100 pounds each branch. Now I spread the traverse and decrease the angle to 120 degrees, the force on each branch is now my full weight, 200 pounds, this is called the critical angle. If I continue to pull the traverse now to 15 degrees, I increase the force 383.1% or in this case 766 pounds of force on the branch. Now imagine if I have used a single rope and have it anchored on the ground below. Depending on the placement of the anchor, I could be doubling the force again becoming 1532 pounds. So unless I am pretty confident that I could park a Volkswagen on that branch, I may want to reconsider my setup. I have not even considered the fulcrum force or lateral force in pounds per foot at the base of a tree if it is placed from tree to tree and many feet above the ground. Further, let's just say you like it snug to make the traverse easy or someone wants to do a little tightrope walking and you pull on this single rope to 5 degrees. In this example, with a ground anchor, my 200 pounds now comes close to a whopping 5,000 pounds.) 
So, Moss's comments about serious tension are VERY well founded.


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## rmihalek (Oct 8, 2012)

*Moss, etc.*

I've climbed with Moss and saw him set a cool traverse; I was very impressed with his technique. Another place I saw tree-to-tree traverses set up was on that reality show called Heli-Loggers. This was a show based in western Canada and the guys had to climb 10, 15 maybe 20 trees a day, limb them on the way up and then top the tree at the right height such that the weight of the stem would allow a "sky crane" type helicopter to come in and pick off the stem. Many times, the trees were close enough together that the climber was able to throw a grapple from one tree to the other and then slide down the line and get into the other tree maybe 90 or 120 feet above the ground. If they could go from stem to stem this way, they'd increase their production a great deal.

As you guys mentioned, the standing stem loggers didn't try to set a straight across traverse, probably because their grapple would snap free if they put that much tension on it. They would slide down the line a good 20 or 30 degrees then lanyard in to the new tree.

Now that I'm thinking about it, they never really detailed how the climbers got their gear out of the first tree. That's something I'd like to know!

Cheers,
Bob


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## moss (Oct 11, 2012)

Just picked up a ZK2 Rope wrench a couple weeks ago, been busy seeing what I can do with it, here's some SRT traversing I did with it recently. The wrench makes swing traverses tree-to-tree much easier since you can safely position yourself on the outer crown of deciduous trees. And you can do some interesting stuff with the tail of the rope to bring yourself over to another tree.

[video=vimeo;51190593]https://vimeo.com/51190593[/video]


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## smokey01 (Oct 13, 2012)

moss said:


> Just picked up a ZK2 Rope wrench a couple weeks ago, been busy seeing what I can do with it, here's some SRT traversing I did with it recently. The wrench makes swing traverses tree-to-tree much easier since you can safely position yourself on the outer crown of deciduous trees. And you can do some interesting stuff with the tail of the rope to bring yourself over to another tree.



Moss, your posts are always informative, educational and very well done. Thanks for sharing that. I wish I could be your camera guy so we could see YOU better doing this. Still, in spite of the difficulty self filming, VERY WELL DONE!
Thanks again


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## moss (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks Smokey. Yep the video is missing some details, definitely tough to get things set up so everything's visible. Yep could use a camera man ;-)
-AJ


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## kevin bingham (Oct 31, 2012)

oak to oak - YouTube

this is one way to do it
my first day with the helmet cam and my first day out pruning oaks. Had to get major deadwood from two oaks in a yard.


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## kevin bingham (Nov 1, 2012)

Using a Horse Knot - YouTube

the last little bit iof this video is a ground shot of me doing the same technique for another tree to tree transfer


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## moss (Nov 2, 2012)

Both vids great! Thanks Kevin.

Cool thing about the Horse Knot use in the vid is the bight hockled and it still released
-AJ


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## smokey01 (Dec 24, 2012)

kevin bingham said:


> Using a Horse Knot - YouTube
> 
> the last little bit iof this video is a ground shot of me doing the same technique for another tree to tree transfer



That is some amazing footage Kevin! We were talking abut using a helicopter or quad copter for filming in another thread and this is just the kind of stuff that would be awesome to see from that perspective. The swing at the end of the video as well, now that is a tree to tree traverse!


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## smokey01 (Dec 24, 2012)

Pulled this from another thread as it really has to do with tree to tree traverse. 
I have set up this double throw line retrieval for use when setting my line to another tree. A hook can be set on one line while the throw bag is set on the other. Letting line out and bringing line in at the same time becomes a tangle free zone.


smokey01 said:


> Thanks 2treeornot2tree, I appreciate the suggestion. I think the Pflueger Automatic Fly Reel is one of the popular choices. Unfortunately I have more experience with a chalk-line than a fly fishing reel. :msp_biggrin: Actually I have found this set up to be very effective for me. I did recently add a lanyard to it so that I can now attach it to my neck lanyard. I have been doing tree to tree transfers, so far up to 35' apart, setting my line from one tree to the next. What I like about this is that I can push the handle in on one, letting out line, while I am winding line in from the other at the same time. This creates my loop to the other tree so that I can then feed my climb line.
> Just to keep some continuity to this thread. Now if I could use some slingshot to set my line in another tree I could use all 50' of my line in the chalk-line.
> 
> Link to photo of transfer from oak to pine.
> ...


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## smokey01 (Dec 24, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> What are you attempting to do....


I don't know if I will be able to do it but I am trying to go from one end of a property to the other, about 250', without setting any lines from the ground but the first one and without touching the ground until the end.


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## smokey01 (Dec 30, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> You should be aware of the side force you're placing on both trees by attempting to pull yourself from one tree to another. Depending on the species of tree, you could snap off one of your tips, and end up doing the Tarzan thing, with part of a tree hanging from your harness.


Indeed.


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## Oxman (Jan 8, 2013)

Here's a few thoughts. 

Dan Kraus devised a way to attach the grapnel to the throwline by using a short tether
to install a solo traverse line at the Seattle Funclimb on January 21, 2001. (See Part 2 of this climb report:Treedr.com - Redwood Climb) 

A loop of line about six-eight inches long is girthed to the eye of the grapnel. Tie the string to the throwline, leaving the grapnel dangling. Then lower the thowline the rest of the way to the other side of the chasm. The extra length of the dangler will allow the hook to pendulum around behind the tree stem and hook the throwline more easily. This allows clearance away from the trunk to prevent the strands of the throwline from snagging. Voila!

For a discussion about irretreivable jam knots, see the photos & description of the various people who have climbed the 336' Ralph Stearns Dyer Redwood tree in the CD-ROM called A Tree Story. 

This document is the best kept secret in the tree climbing world. It cannot be downloaded, it actually costs money to buy & ship by postal carrier, but is well worth it. The Stearns is shown in the 4th line down, 4th photo from the left of this link:http://www.atreestory.com/grafs/CD-Main-Page.pdf

A 1987 version of the story of using a jam knot to climb the Stearns is over at: Treedr.com - Redwood Climb This version is also available in Spanish, in the Proceedings of the 3rd Spanish Arboriculture Conference. 

The last bit to contribute to this discussion of traverses is a 2008 video of a traverse at 180' from the Bogachiel Spruce to an adjacent tree, called the BS2. 2 parallel traverse lines are strung, one for feet, the other for hands or pulley.

The video does not show how the lines were installed, which was by conventional means. There were climbers in each tree. 
Video: 

[video=youtube_share;xRMDkUu0pds]http://youtu.be/xRMDkUu0pds[/video]

Of course, Will Koomjian & Brian French's video of their traverse project is elegantly relevant. I'll leave it to someone else to post that link. 

Enjoy !


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## FanOFatherNash (Jan 8, 2013)

You assumed again!


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## moss (Jan 10, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> I don't know if I will be able to do it but I am trying to go from one end of a property to the other, about 250', without setting any lines from the ground but the first one and without touching the ground until the end.



For me this is the future of rec climbing. I would like to start at a spot in the woods at dawn and see how far I can go horizontally through the canopy in one day without touching ground. So far I'm just doing short routes through several trees. Solo is particularly challenging, you have to think through every move carefully, if you hang your rope you could have serious issues getting back to the ground if you're up high. With a team of two there's a lot more flexibilty and "rescue" is always at hand if you get a rope hung. Team of three is probably ideal, especially if you're in big conifer forest, just to carry all the rope you'll need to get around.
-AJ


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## smokey01 (Jan 14, 2013)

moss said:


> For me this is the future of rec climbing. I would like to start at a spot in the woods at dawn and see how far I can go horizontally through the canopy in one day without touching ground. So far I'm just doing short routes through several trees. Solo is particularly challenging, you have to think through every move carefully, if you hang your rope you could have serious issues getting back to the ground if you're up high. With a team of two there's a lot more flexibilty and "rescue" is always at hand if you get a rope hung. Team of three is probably ideal, especially if you're in big conifer forest, just to carry all the rope you'll need to get around.
> -AJ


That is spot on for me as well moss. Let me know when you do it, I would be happy to film the event with my new camera.:smile2:

It is my first video and nothing like yours but I thought I would post it anyway. 
It is hard to keep in mind that I am filming and will work on head movement etc in the future. 

[video=youtube;6MXsEvK6fI8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MXsEvK6fI8&feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## smokey01 (Jan 26, 2013)

*Traverse between two pines, SRT, DdRT, Unicender.*

Video of my last traverse.

Two adjacent pine trees about 25 feet apart, canopy anchor about 85-90 feet set with Bigshot, advanced SRT on Unicender, advanced TIP for the traverse, set traverse with false crotch, DdRT with Unicender and advanced to other pine with DdRT, VT and Hitchclimber pulley. I was going to traverse from there to a nearby oak but the wind started to blow and the tree I was in had a defect (probably a lighting strike years ago) that was not making me feel comfortable.

[video=youtube;nuOtw2dJsiY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuOtw2dJsiY[/video]


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 26, 2013)

Cool stuff -- but what about getting into a hazard tree from higher rigging in a sound tree? My technique on the fir below (probably 3 - 5 years dead) was to push off from the pine I was tied in, grab a dead limb, and pull myself hand over hand to the trunk of the fir. If the branch broke, I figured I would try another. What I DID NOT want to do (even at the level of experience i had several years ago) was tie in to that dead fir. Got lucky, branch didn't break. 

At the fir, I just put my flip line around a stub for a fast get away while I pulled up a bull rope and tied it to the tree.

View attachment 275725
View attachment 275726
View attachment 275727


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## smokey01 (Jan 30, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> Cool stuff -- but what about getting into a hazard tree from higher rigging in a sound tree? ...........


In the case of this recreational climb I could have maintained the friction saver I had on the departing, very sound tree, left a butterfly knot with a biner thru it and enough tail in the climb line plus add some throw line to assure it reached the ground, then treated the other tree as a simple re-direct and descended SRT. This way I would not have been attached to this tree and I could still recover my climbing line once on the ground. I inspected the tree from the ground with binoculars and felt confident about it, until the wind started to blow and it gave me the...........
But you make a good point and that would be a good discussion, to clip-in or not to clip-in when dealing with dead tree removals. There was a discussion about "break-away" lanyards, again, not too recreational.


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## Eden1988 (Feb 27, 2013)

moss said:


> The throwline technique Beastmaster described is what I do, I know the technique as "The Dangle". I demonstrate in this video, I'm primarily demonstrating a custom slingshot to make the throw to perform the Dangle but if you have a clear enough path you can throw by hand. Reality in woods situations is there's very rarely a clear path so some type of throwing device is really helpful:
> https://vimeo.com/26036153
> 
> I'm setting a single rope traverse in the video but the technique can be used for a DRT traverse as well. That was the first time I set a solo single rope traverse up high so you get to enjoy my nervousness going over ;-)
> ...



Dude, thanks for the video and illustrations. It has helped me a lot. Where do I get a little grappling hook and how much do they go for?


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## moss (Mar 8, 2013)

Eden1988 said:


> Dude, thanks for the video and illustrations. It has helped me a lot. Where do I get a little grappling hook and how much do they go for?



You can make one with some heavy gauge copper wire or buy one from New Tribe here, they want $32. for it, a bit higher then when I bought mine few years ago.
-AJ


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## Stayalert (Apr 4, 2013)

I think you'll like this....."tree verse"

Treeverse Trailer on Vimeo


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## smokey01 (Apr 6, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> I think you'll like this....."tree verse"
> 
> Treeverse Trailer on Vimeo


That is a great clip, I would enjoy the full movie, does anyone know where you can get it?


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## smokey01 (Apr 10, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> That is a great clip, I would enjoy the full movie, does anyone know where you can get it?



20 bucks


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## JanThorCro (Aug 31, 2013)

moss said:


> The throwline technique Beastmaster described is what I do, I know the technique as "The Dangle". Here are some drawings showing the technique:
> A. Traverse setting technique | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> -AJ



Awesome and great drawings to clear any questions. Thank you.


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## canopyboy (Aug 31, 2013)

*Ahh, to be back...*

I haven't logged in to AS in a long, long time. Fun thread to read. Good stuff for sure. I love my yella grapple from NT, whether traversing from one tree to another or one side of a large tree to the other it's great. Had it since it first came out (I think the previous version was blue?)

Moss, good to see you're still innovating and educating. Would love to get up to your area and climb again some day, just hasn't been in the cards of late. -Dave


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