# Axe Men---YAWN!



## Sunrise Guy (Apr 5, 2008)

Three strikes and--- 
it's outta here! I was really excited about this show and marked it on my calendar so I wouldn't miss it. Sad to say, it now bores me, big time. It seems that each show is about the same stuff, each week: Big machines break, big machines are fixed, chokers are set, logs are hauled, guys have close calls, guys swear, logs are trucked down the mountains--Yawn. To make matters worse, the show has to give you the exact same blurb each time they shift from one crew to another, and show the exact same group shot of the crew----OK, we get it, you're changing job site locations.

I now think we should get a reality show going about us---Urban Arborists. Our jobs are far more interesting than what's on Axe Men: In one day, on a job with rigging, we do a whole lot more interesting stuff than a week of what they're doing up in the mountains. The public would really find a show about what we're doing far more interesting than what the guys on AM are doing. We, by and large, maintain our equipment, we are more careful, we are more intelligent (OK, OK, you can give me grief here, but some of those guys on AM seem to be not the sharpest axes on the truck) and our jobs are certainly more interesting, more varied.

I propose a name for the show---Tree Men, or Tree People. Yeah, it doeasn't have the same macho feel as "Axe Men," so y'all kick in here with your ideas for a show name.

Any companies out there who think they have enough activity going on each week to fill a show, stand up and be counted. Maybe I can get a production deal going with the History Channel. I think three or four companies would need to be in the show to keep things moving along. Possibly, it would be cool to have four companies from four different parts of the US, maybe the world, to show contrasts in the way things are done in different areas with different trees. Weigh in here, and then I'll see what the shirts at The History Channel have to say about my idea.

FWIW, I'm totally serious here, so if you want to get involved with this project, let me know. It may be a long shot, but, then again, anything seems to go on "Reality TV" these days, so this just might work.


----------



## treeman82 (Apr 5, 2008)

I agree with you, I watched the first 2 shows... flipping to other things during commercial breaks. Now I watch other stuff and flip back to this during commercial breaks. It's the same thing, over and over again. What I'm bothered by though... is that they say logging is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world... OSHA makes us wear chainsaw protective pants and helmets on the ground, they also make us use fall protection systems while working aloft.

I don't think I've seen so much as 1 pair of chaps or protective pants... let alone any eye protection. These climbers... holding their spurs on with tape and string.. no climbing line, just a buck strap... These other guys dropping a tree right on top of a high pressure steel cable. I mean they send the guys up spars to attach blocks... SOMEBODY had to have cut the tops out of those things. Why not show that? Or hows about a helmet cam when they go up there? I mean we're arborists and we have them... can't the History Channel afford one or two as well?


----------



## ents (Apr 5, 2008)

Last week they had the first 3 episodes on back to back. By the start of the 3rd. I was done with it.

Your idea of an arborist show would be great, BUT, the channel would butcher it just like they did with AM (sorta like what the federal government does when they administer something).


----------



## nytreeman (Apr 5, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> A few of my friends have mentioned how poorly the show reflects on all people who work with trees, including arborist. Logs aren't the only thing being dragged through the mud.



that about sums it up ^^^^^^


----------



## reachtreeservi (Apr 5, 2008)

It's been posted on here before, but there was a reality show done on tree services. Here's the link.

http://www.nosakraw.com/


There's 8 episodes. Click on the page where it says extras.

It's pretty good. Doesn't show enough climbing and rigging, seems to focus on crane jobs. 
And the audio and video do not sync , on the later episodes

But it's better than Axemen, imho.

Check it out.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 5, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> A few of my friends have mentioned how poorly the show reflects on all people who work with trees, including arborist. Logs aren't the only thing being dragged through the mud.



You're right...I wish you weren't. A lot of what's being shown on AxeMen is realistic and a good representaion of what actually goes on in the woods. 

Unfortunately a lot of what's shown isn't the way things usually are. And that's the rub. The general public has no way of knowing what's real and what's contrived and the people responsible for the show don't really care if they find out. 

The show, so far, has a very narrow focus on one type of logging and doesn't really represent the industry as a whole.

I don't see the show lasting more than one season...and that's a shame. There's a lot of things they could show that would be just as entertaining and shed a better light on logging.


----------



## smokechase II (Apr 5, 2008)

*Correction*

_"*same stuff, each week: Big machines break, big machines are fixed, chokers are set, logs are hauled, guys have close calls, guys swear, logs are trucked down the mountains--Yawn."*_


Actually, the correct order is: 
Big machines break, guys swear, big machines are fixed, guys swear, chokers are set, guys swear, logs are hauled, guys swear, guys have close calls, guys swear, logs are trucked down the mountains, guys swear--Yawn.

*************************

Without the fatality rate going up this format isn't going to last. That is just an artificial crutch at that.
{There are teasers about an injury and rescue coming and there will be coverage of another more serious wind storm.}

*************************

Housing markets take awhile to recover. Next years episodes would be titled: "Unemployment line is long, and Wife beating rate goes up and Oregon suffers Budweiser shortage". 

***********************

In the good old days stories were legend about passed out choker setters being picked up outside the bars of Forks Washington for the morning ride in the crummy. 
Perhaps the State of Warshington could pick up the slack next year.


----------



## smokechase II (Apr 5, 2008)

*On second thought*

For a show to last it doesn't have to be good.

For instance I watch the 'COPS' show(s) somewhat regular.
They are repetitive but deal with really stupid people.

That has a lot of appeal, feeling better about oneself by looking down on others lack of judgment.

Perhaps Deadliest Catch and Ice Road Truckers and AxMen all fill a similar niche.


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Apr 5, 2008)

It's not that bad...it's not that good either.

I think the monotony is fairly reflective...it's a production situation.

If you can bear through not being entertained then I believe that there are other aspects of the industry being shown from time to time. However, if the attention span isn't there...it isn't there...nothing you can do about that I suppose.

Then again, I'm not a tv viewer.

I'm keeping up with back episodes from the website in my spare time. I'll see it through till the end. I like hard outdoor work in all sorts of situations and weather as opposed to needing ideal conditions. It certainly separates the men from the boys. I think that is way it's called Ax Men, as opposed to Ax People.

In a society and media frenzy bent on blending genders, it is refreshing to see just were idealism (and its offspring) finds its limitations.

No Tree Emos in dem dar hills.

Nevertheless, I agree that certain perceptions can be ascertained by the general public about all tree workers from this show that are not good nor reflective. And I could careless for all the swearing...but that is reality, especially is a roughneck group like that. What do you expect? Boy scouts fresh out of choir practice? LOL! 

Not that you have to swear to be manly. Plenty of not so manly men swear just as bad or worse. Manly women bank on it.

Therefore a Residential/Utility, Urban and Rural, Arborist show would grant proper contrast to the Loggers we see here. It would be a great....and I mean a great opportunity to bring to light the nature and unprofessionalism of fly by night hacks and the like. I think it would be good for all of us, bad for the low balling hacksters.

Good Luck with the project...just keep it fair and comprehensive. There are trees out here in the country too ya know.


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Apr 5, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> For a show to last it doesn't have to be good.
> 
> For instance I watch the 'COPS' show(s) somewhat regular.
> They are repetitive but deal with really stupid people.
> ...



Good point. Your first post was a gas....


----------



## tomtrees58 (Apr 5, 2008)

right on the money tom trees


----------



## kkottemann (Apr 5, 2008)

I agree as well...not great but not so bad either. I definitly think they are leaving some things out that need to be seen. I also do not understand why all the mishaps (like the tree falling on the line, equipment stuck in the mud...ect...)Where are the seasoned crews? The climbing is terrible.

One thing that get me every week is how they refer to it as the logging season, and how the company only has 3 weeks to get the wood out. Now I know nothing about how the industry works out west, but I was a district manager for a timber company in louisiana. I bought timber and managed the 9 logging companies in my district. When I bought a tract of timber I drew up the deed to give us a term of 24, 38 or 48 months to cut the tract at which point if the tract was not completed or cut there was a clause which would allow me to buy an extension at 5% of the value of the uncut timber. so why are they saying 3weeks or 4 weeks? I do not get that. And what about the season thing...I know there are better times to log certain tracts, but there is no logging season here. It is all year long, balls to the wall get the logs out where you can and keep the mill logged! It seems to me they are playing to the success of the fishing show Deadliest catch, you know, with the season thing and how they are keeping score on who hauled more logs. These guys are not in competition with each other. each company has its strengths and thay is why they are on the certain tracts they cut. Agian, I do not know the PNW process of putting a logger on the tract so mabe I am way out of line here.


----------



## beowulf343 (Apr 5, 2008)

I kind of find it interesting. Everything around here is logged on the back of a skidder, cool to see how it's done out west. However, parts of it are embarrassing to those of us in the tree business. Had a buddy ask me after seeing the show if that is the way tree climbing is done. That Stump Branch crew is just ridiculous. 

Now a show about residential tree work would be great. Unfortunately, a professional job done by a professional crew is boring to those who don't know what they are seeing. I love watching a pro but that's because i know what he just did and how tricky it was, etc. People just want to see limbs dropped on roofs. You notice in the show that when a crew is finally pulling some logs, they don't focus on them at all. They wait till the yarder gets stuck, or they lose a gas cap, or they lose a bolt, or they drop a tree on the skyline. People want to see drama i guess, so the show would probably focus on hack crews who are causing damage, or whose equipment don't work.


----------



## smokechase II (Apr 5, 2008)

*Hard to imagine*

You know what's really bad about this statement:

*"For a show to last it doesn't have to be good.

For instance I watch the 'COPS' show(s) somewhat regular.
They are repetitive but deal with really stupid people.

That has a lot of appeal, feeling better about oneself by looking down on others lack of judgment.

Perhaps Deadliest Catch and Ice Road Truckers and AxMen all fill a similar niche." * 

?

************

I was a Smokejumper for over 20 years.
What's that tell you about the guys hanging around the cable being helicopter laid or their tree climbing gear or using a choker to pull a tree being fell over on the main line etc. Chheeezzz.

That Stump Branch crew is low budget and they are providing most of the mechanically challenged material.

You are going to find those outfits in the arborist world too.
Be careful about any our entire profession is perfect analysis.


----------



## beowulf343 (Apr 5, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> I was a Smokejumper for over 20 years.
> What's that tell you about the guys hanging around the cable being helicopter laid or their tree climbing gear or using a choker to pull a tree being fell over on the main line etc. Chheeezzz.
> 
> That Stump Branch crew is low budget and they are providing most of the mechanically challenged material.
> ...



I'm feeling a little slow-what does being a smokejumper for over 20 years have to do with this show?

That stump branch crew is cheap and they are providing most of the mechanically challenged material simply through their own incompetence or stupidity.


----------



## smokechase II (Apr 5, 2008)

*Analysis*

*"what does being a smokejumper for over 20 years have to do with this show?"*

If you parachute to work on forest fires and think someone else is way too dangerous in their workplace, what would that tend to indicate about their safety?

************************

You can do lots of things safely. I not only never had a malfunction in over 400 jumps I never even saw a significant one in the thousands of other jumps I witnessed.

Granted, being safe with a forklift in a warehouse setting is going to be much easier to achieve than cable logging. (A forklift class I had in the 90's pointed out that Oregon averaged almost 6 forklift related fatalaties a year back then, so don't assume that it is being done safely all the time.)


----------



## M.D. Vaden (Apr 5, 2008)

It was interesting at first, but became a bit boring.

I still watch bits of it, but not the entire daily showing like the first day.


----------



## sawinredneck (Apr 5, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> It's been posted on here before, but there was a reality show done on tree services. Here's the link.
> 
> http://www.nosakraw.com/
> 
> ...



Have you actually watched these morons? It scares me to think of them going nationwide!! It would be a show of WHAT NOT TO DO when you have more money than brains!!


----------



## capetrees (Apr 5, 2008)

I've said it before and I'll say it again;

Nosac(k) is a no talent assclown. 

His antics say nothing more than "I just bought a bunch of new equipment, have no idea how to use it right and want to show off". All the equipment, none of the brains. Riding a wheely in the crane? Whole trees removed all at once with the crane? No thanks, Illl hire the non-flashy guy with hard worked equipment.


----------



## beowulf343 (Apr 5, 2008)

capetrees said:


> Whole trees removed all at once with the crane?



With the right crane, what's the problem with that? Did it myself just two weeks ago. Saves alot of time.


----------



## reachtreeservi (Apr 5, 2008)

I don't know the guy from adam. So I can't tell you if he's a good guy or not personally.

But I do like watching his show better than Axemen. Or Survivor.
There's alot wrong in the show; language, single lanyard while cutting , etc.

But It's entertainment. 

Sure he's a crane baby.
And everybody who's ever owned and driven a bobcat everyday has wheelied it. I don't think I'd do it on TV, that's just me.

But it's good reality TV. The Good , The bad and the somewhat ugly.

I love it when he tells you at the beginning of the show:

" I'm a saw for hire. I'm here to protect your children , you and your home from the most deadly vegetation on the planet. Trees. 
Now let's go cut some."

You've got to love that !


----------



## sawinredneck (Apr 5, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> With the right crane, what's the problem with that? Did it myself just two weeks ago. Saves alot of time.



And you are right!!!

BUT when the front outriggers come off the ground three feet because the crane is overloaded, that's not the right way to do it!


----------



## reachtreeservi (Apr 5, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> And you are right!!!
> 
> BUT when the front outriggers come off the ground three feet because the crane is overloaded, that's not the right way to do it!



You got a point there !

Made for good reality TV though, didn't it ? LOL


----------



## sawinredneck (Apr 5, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> I don't know the guy from adam. So I can't tell you if he's a good guy or not personally.
> 
> But I do like watching his show better than Axemen. Or Survivor.
> There's alot wrong in the show; language, single lanyard while cutting , etc.
> ...



And dropping a tree on a customers car, having a sling hanging by athread as it swings over the customers house while the climber runs in terror, where do I stop?

Yeah, thats got to be great for the industry:monkey:


----------



## reachtreeservi (Apr 5, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> And dropping a tree on a customers car, having a sling hanging by athread as it swings over the customers house while the climber runs in terror, where do I stop?
> 
> Yeah, thats got to be great for the industry:monkey:




If you look at it that way Sawinredneck , you're correct .

Hard to argue with you when you're right. 



What's good for the Industry and good reality TV are quite different.


----------



## kennertree (Apr 5, 2008)

tomtrees58 said:


> right on the money tom trees



I like you tom trees. You keep it pithy.


----------



## sawinredneck (Apr 5, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> If you look at it that way Sawinredneck , you're correct .
> 
> Hard to argue with you when you're right.



Sorry, I wasn't picking on you, I've watched all the videos, and hear him talk A LOT!!! It's a really neat idea, but not with those idiots!!!
That would be like me going out and teaching the world how to climb and fall trees!!! Yeah, not a good idea!!!!
But I at least have enough sense to know I am an idiot and ask for help when I need it, know what I mean?


----------



## beowulf343 (Apr 5, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> And you are right!!!
> 
> BUT when the front outriggers come off the ground three feet because the crane is overloaded, that's not the right way to do it!



Awesome! Guess i'll have to watch the links now!


----------



## reachtreeservi (Apr 5, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Sorry, I wasn't picking on you, I've watched all the videos, and hear him talk A LOT!!! It's a really neat idea, but not with those idiots!!!
> That would be like me going out and teaching the world how to climb and fall trees!!! Yeah, not a good idea!!!!
> But I at least have enough sense to know I am an idiot and ask for help when I need it, know what I mean?



I hear ya Andy, and I knew you weren't picking on me.

The sad truth is that if a TV crew followed someone like Tom Dunlap around for a month, we'd grove on it, but the general public would probably change the channel.

When you do it safely , the right way, it's not very entertaining.



I've told my wife many days when I walked in the door and she asked " How was your day? "

It was a good day. Nothing happened except making money.


----------



## 460magnumMOD (Apr 5, 2008)

*HA! Nosak Raw, what a joke!*

Nosak Raw is just good t.v. for the general public. Does it shed a good light on the rest of the industry to unknowing people? NO. Does Paul Nosak spend too much time talking himself up when he should just shut up and work? Yes. But the ultimate question for a t.v. show is does it, or will it make money? Yes. It interest unknowing people. But for all of us in the industry we see all the faults, face cuts way too deep, poor climbing and rigging safety, wheelieing around on the skidsteer on a job, not just once but all the time, and the list goes on. Personally I have done wheelies in skidsteers, but never on a job, and never getting the back end on one wheel, and bouncing all over the place. If I saw someone doing that in my machine they would be looking for another job very quickly. I don't take too kindly to hammer heads to equipment. The guy seems to be a bull#### artist. Thats how he got all his money and his new equipment. But people eat that up. It just frustrates me


----------



## TreeDivision (Apr 7, 2008)

*I had some success marketing this*

I spent the end of the winter last year marketing this concept, and actually got pretty far along. It all started innocently with a Craigslist posting that got me a producer, actually alot of them, except one really had good input. 

In the end I got sponsorship from LogRite Tools and a promise to consider and even some gear from STIHL, Carhartt, New England Ropes, Sherrill Tree, Kuntz Gloves, and best of all Burt Wilson or Bubba Whoop Ass Wilson as he is known on The Monsters of the Morning Real Radio 104.1 FM Orlando and XM 152, has added his musical genius in the form of our theme song Chain Saw Man, if you go to my web site http://treedivision.com/ the link is at the bottom of all the pages, a great song and this guy is the funniest Louisiana Coon Ass, look him up he is a great guy. 

The concept ended up being a really good business plan, that if anyone is really interested we can talk, but series has three segments in each episode. The high skill tree work reality one that has the crew and work and nutty stuff, all safety concerns must be met. The commercial pandering to industry specific companies where I will visit them see their product of interst, STIHL's tree shaker, Bandit's whole tree chipper etc. and segment three for the tree huggers I will go and visit some cool tree ie. the underwear tree, tree houses, 100 year old bike up in a tree ect., (I have a whole list of these) I think this is a good platform to boost our visability and address the hackers and bumpkins, talk about pricing, topping, insurance, homeowner safety and pitfalls, what the homeowner should expect, how we avoid lawn damage, and why we charge what we do.

I chose my business name to be very generic on purpose as I get alot of leads from landscapers and contractors so Tree Division worked good for the show as well. The concept allows for other companies so if you are in a position to grow I would welcome any conversation about what we can do together. By the way someone marketing the same type of concept the way I did will probably end up running into road blocks at this point as all these companies will be worried about confidentiality involved with my pitch.

The only reason I didn't get further along was that my brother imploded after a rough year, DUI, girlfriend death, what else? Just a bad year for us and we parted ways in the business this past fall. So when I get back to earning money I will be making the marketing of this a priority; how can having a show based on your business on even local TV be bad for business? 

If you are interested feel free to call or email me directly 

Erik Poore
Tree Division, Inc.
Derry, NH 03038
http://treedivision.com/
[email protected]
603=235=1778


----------



## slowp (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm a little late. Here's my thoughts on the show. I work around and am down in the brush with skyline crews. The show is pretty much right on. 
I think different hooktenders dropped trees on the lines 3 times last year when I was out. Got a nasty bruise from diving behind a stump. All of the crews except one up here are gyppo outfits. The yarders are vintage 1970 models, the equipment held together with tape and JB Weld. The small outfits constantly have changing crewmembers. I think the faces change after every payday which makes for some stupid mistakes on the ground. Wages are the same as they were 20 years ago which might have something to do with it. The owners aren't logging the valuable trees like 20 years ago either so they aren't making as much profit so they buy the second, third or fourth hand equipment. I've also never seen a hooktender run up a tree. The show is right on with the speed they show. Sorry to disappoint you but except for the narration, the crew stuff is a good representation of this area. However, the owners say the farther west in the county you go, the better the crews are. I get a kick out of the show because I like to work with the skyline outfits. There's a lot of figuring and thinking to be done.


----------



## pdqdl (Apr 7, 2008)

*It'd never work..*



smokechase II said:


> ...
> 
> I was a Smokejumper for over 20 years.
> ...



If they made a series on smoke jumpers, they would probably kill off all the cameramen, by accident. Then the smokejumpers would have to ignore the fire to save the camerament. Wouldn't that be great video ?

What I have seen on axemen looked like "fabricated for the camera" danger.

I really liked the tree dropped on the main line. That looked deliberate, to me. I couldn't see any reason to even come close to the line, much less hit it.


----------



## smokechase II (Apr 7, 2008)

*SJ's and cameras*

*"If they made a series on smoke jumpers, they would probably kill off all the cameramen, by accident. Then the smokejumpers would have to ignore the fire to save the cameramen. Wouldn't that be great video ?"*

It’s been almost 16 years since I jumped. Permission to ignore everything I say granted.

********************

The Redmond Head SJ told me he thought some of the camera crew that did the Discovery Channel filming of Hotshots and Jumpers a year plus ago were on the History Channel AxMen crew.

I think working around a cable logging operation is a lot more dangerous than wildland fire and even parachuting.

********************

In the world I come from, (USFS), there is one group of workers in the woods that is respected more than any other.

Timber Fallers. Not Jumpers or Shots or Choker Setters or thinners etc.
Skill + luck - danger = respect if nothing else.

********************

I just saw the latest AxMen episode and I finally liked it. They are really capturing the guys and outfits and I'm gonna back up and say I'll tolerate the log loads contest and enjoy the rest.


----------



## CLEARVIEW TREE (Apr 7, 2008)

*Well understood*

Last night did it for me while watchin AM! I could not believe my eyes, that kid was climbing that tree with only a reg lanyard, no secondary TIP, and a real sharp axe! The way he was flailin that axe round, he's darn lucky he didn't cut that little lanyard and sail to the ground! Man, i don't know if it's stupidity, lack of training, or a willingness to take dire risks, perhaps a combo of all though. The Arboriculture reality show is a great idea and would better represent the industry!


----------



## Brush Hog (Apr 8, 2008)

Sure as hell beats dancing with the stars or the other garbage on TV.


----------



## slowp (Apr 9, 2008)

I wish they would have shown the Lardy guys cleaning up the oil that was dripping out. The treehuggers will hear about that and want to shut everything down again. One thing they aren't conveying well is the noise level on the landing. It would probably blow the sound guy's ears out though.
I'm thinking that some of the cutters probably didn't want camera people around. Or maybe the camera people only trust a couple of the cutters to be around? I'm still entertained by it as there is still too much snow here for any operations to start up. The monthly index showed that Doug-fir and Hemlock prices went up in March. DF increased by a whole $1.76 and Hemlock went up 64 cents.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 10, 2008)

Brush Hog said:


> Sure as hell beats dancing with the stars or the other garbage on TV.



I'd rather watch Top Chef, or Iron Chef America


----------



## M.D. Vaden (Apr 10, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I'd rather watch Top Chef, or Iron Chef America



I've seen oriental chefs.

Are there any oriental logging crews in the world?

Japan?

Do they even log there?


----------



## Metals406 (Apr 10, 2008)

Sorry to say guys... But working under a yarder is just like on the show (give or take)... Especially the cursing. The producers have made it a little 'Hollywood', but overall, that's the way it is. It is really dangerous... And you can't compare line-logging to tree removal. It's just two different worlds. Yes, a lot of the dangers could be avoided... But at the expense of time... And if you've learned anything from the show--time = craploads of money. If you're not getting loads out, chit hits the fan. 

The operating costs of a line-crew, and the operating costs of most tree removal/arborist crews, aren't even close. When I worked around a chopper 10 years ago, it was $1,000.00+/- an hour to keep it in the air. And the Browning crew is flying sky-line with a similar Ranger.

There were many days when the new guy would do something to break a cable, or the yarder would breakdown, or the processor, or the loader... When one piece is down--it all goes down. Line-logging isn't a high paying gig... Not for the crew, and usually not for the boss--it just pays the bills.

So yes, they exaggerate (sometimes), and yes the voice-over guy is paid good money to make it all sound interesting and dramatic... That's why it's a show--with realism as it's basis.


----------

