# Stihl 4-Mix engine vs. Shindaiwa Hybrid-4 engine



## coasteray (May 23, 2012)

I am trying to decide which trimmer to buy, and I need some information about these two differently-designed hybrid engines. I have searched for hours trying to find what I can only describe here as an engine cutaway diagram, or diagrams from different angles, that simply show how the engine is designed and put together. I don't want to see another parts diagram where the whole engine is exploded with every little part displayed. Neither do I need to see another animation. I've already seen the one on Shindaiwa's web site. I am looking for a graphically-illustrated color view of these engines, I guess like you might see a magazine come up with. I hope you all get what I mean. Just a few simple pictorial cutaway views of each of these engines. I have a couple of cheap-looking ones that don't help much at all. Anyone have a link they can give to me here? It would be much appreciated.

Another couple of things about these engines that I'm having a hard time finding online:

1) Shindaiwa's web site says the Hybrid-4 has a chrome-plated cylinder wall. How about the Stihl 4-Mix?

2) Do either of the engines have a single-ring piston, or are they two-ring pistons?

3) Do either have a forged crankshaft?

4) Anything else worth mentioning, like valves, etc.

I would also like to know something about the gearboxes used on the Stihl FS90R/FS110R and KM90R/KM110R, and the Shindaiwa T254, T282, T344, M242, and M254. No doubt both companies use the same gearbox designs through their lines? Anyway, what types of gears, bearings/bushings, whatever, and lubricant are in the gearbox?

I've read some comments on forums about synthetic "oil" for the hybrids. Do they really eliminate or greatly cut down the carbon deposits on the valves and seats? Since the synthetic isn't natural oil, I assume that's the case. The only thing that would produce carbon deposits would be the gas. Is Ambersoil Saber better than Stihl Ultra or Shindaiwa Red Armor? 


Thanks for any answers.


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

I don't know the answeres to your ? 

But I have a Stihl FS 100 R that sees a lot of use, From normal use around the house to cutting down small trees and bushes in the woods, It always fires right up and it is run for hours at a time only stopping to add fuel or line. I have no complaints I am going on two years and many many hours on it.

I'd Buy another one of these if something were to happen to mine or if I was looking to add another.


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## coasteray (May 23, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> I don't know the answeres to your ?
> 
> But I have a Stihl FS 100 R that sees a lot of use, From normal use around the house to cutting down small trees and bushes in the woods, It always fires right up and it is run for hours at a time only stopping to add fuel or line. I have no complaints I am going on two years and many many hours on it.
> 
> I'd Buy another one of these if something were to happen to mine or if I was looking to add another.




Joe G, thanks for the practical answer. Actual usage reports say a lot more than mere advertising. Thanks again.


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## Grouchy old man (May 23, 2012)

From your questions you sound like an engineer. Both Stihl and Shindaiwa make quality products. Pick one and be happy. :chainsawguy:


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## tommyus4 (May 24, 2012)

I was just at a dealer comparing the Stihl and Shindaiwa trimmers.

One very noticeable difference: The line from the engine to the shaft on the Shindaiwa was not nearly as 'neat', secure or however one might describe the flow of it. For me, I can see it as an accident waiting to happen. That ruled it out. 

As far as your search: I typed in "Shindaiwa Hybrid Engine Patent" . "Power Boost" is patented. aka C4 technology. Follow that and you should be able to come up with something, if you haven't already...


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## coasteray (May 25, 2012)

tommyus4 said:


> I was just at a dealer comparing the Stihl and Shindaiwa trimmers.
> 
> One very noticeable difference: The line from the engine to the shaft on the Shindaiwa was not nearly as 'neat', secure or however one might describe the flow of it. For me, I can see it as an accident waiting to happen. That ruled it out.
> 
> As far as your search: I typed in "Shindaiwa Hybrid Engine Patent" . "Power Boost" is patented. aka C4 technology. Follow that and you should be able to come up with something, if you haven't already...





It's very interesting that you were at a dealer looking at these trimmers, because that's exactly what I'm going to be doing tomorrow or the next day. I need to look these units some more. You've got me curious now about the line from the engine. I also want to check out the overall feel and look of them. 

One thing that gets me, though, is that Stihl has hybrids that range in size between 27.2cc and 40.2cc (I'm looking at the ones with 28.4cc and 31.4cc), but Shindaiwa only has two sizes, 24.5cc and 34.0 cc. There's nothing in between, so you either go small or large. I don't get that at all. Do you think the 24.5cc Shindaiwa hybrid would be plenty of power to handle cutting even through small saplings that spring up, as well as tall and heavy grass, or should I go with Stihl's 28.4 or 31.4? 

I'll have to check out that Shindaiwa Hybrid engine patent reference on Google before the night's out.


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## sgreanbeans (May 25, 2012)

I have both brands, hedge trimmers, both are good, but the Stihls run better. Alot better.


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## coasteray (May 25, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> I have both brands, hedge trimmers, both are good, but the Stihls run better. Alot better.



Thanks for sharing that!


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## tommyus4 (Jun 1, 2012)

I got distracted by some other things and forgot to follow up. I have since been to a few dealers.

I wanted a combo unit originally but am now leaning to a dedicated one. The tiller is the other head I would want but thinking it might be awkard to use and a dedicated tiller would be a better choice.

I too would like a tweener much like a 60cc saw. Zero chance I wil get TAD and own more than one. Especially since there 
wil be no attachments. I think the 1.2 to 1.4 hp range is perfect for home use. The lighter the better.

Some people I respect on these forums love the Stihl trimmers and others I equally respect, hate them. The low decibals of the 4 mix would be nice, though.

I've narrowed it down to the Husky 326, Stihl 100 or the 2 stroke Stihl 70. I only have an acre plus but we're trying to buy a home on 7 acres as we speak.

Who knows what I will end up with. Buying a chainsaw was easier. It will be quality, that is a given. 

What did you find out or decide?


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## JOE.G (Jun 1, 2012)

That is the reason I got the FS110 R for the Different ends I could put on it, But I decided to Buy a Pole saw instead of the end and figured like you that the tiller would be odd. I still highly Recommend the FS 110 R good power to weight ratio and a soild machine.


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## tommyus4 (Jun 1, 2012)

So I went to the dealer again, today. Took my wife too. This dealer has Shindaiwa, Husky and Stihl. The other dealer has Echo, Shindaiwa and Stihl. The 3rd local dealer has Echo and Husky.

The Stihls just seemed too heavy. They didn't have the 100 which is a lot lighter. My wife looked at the tiller and said no way. 

I grabbed the 326ls and it is very light. Seemed perfect. But then I grabbed the Shindy 242. My wife and I both agree that it felt more balanced. Very surprising it was 2lbs 6ozs more. Kind of stunning actually. Just seemed to be better quality too. Both are 2 cycles.

But those exposed wires. My wife agreed that it was just a matter of time. Owner said he has never had anyone return for that reason. He also said the Stihls are in the shop way more than the Husky's or Shindys. He recommended the Shindy. He also said that the Shindys are the ones he uses for rental although many people come in asking to rent the Huskys. No one asks to rent Stihls.

The Shindy has the speed head. Felt great. A little bit less cc's. No one knew the HP rating. 

The Husky seems to be universally liked. But the old style head (which doesn't really bother me, would just prefer easier).

Last thin is we are definately moving one county north. Just a matter of time. Way more rural. There is a Shindy dealer there. 

What really sucks, is that weed wacking sucks. ACutting wood is fun. But, soon to be selling the house and have to make it as perfect as possible and I hate buying crap. Especially with all the info out there.

ps

The dealer said he would tape up the cable and wires but exposed wires just don't seem like a good idea. Otherwise, it would be in my if not the first time, then this time. In retro, I wish I had taken a photo of the issue.


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## JOE.G (Jun 1, 2012)

My folks have the Husky it's nice also, To me The Stihls just seem better mad, I also know around here a lot of the Lawn care guys run the Stihls which may explain why the stihls are in teh shop more if that is the same case by you.

I think any of them will serve the home owner well, Your the one using it so get teh one you don't mind holding and using since weed wacking does suck mines as well make it as best possible.


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## RiverLogger (Jun 1, 2012)

Sounds like you have your mind made up aready but just wanted to throw out a shameless plug for the Stihl FS90. I have had mine for three years now and have done absolutely nothing other than the required maintenance in the owners manual and put gas in it. I have two acres that I do everything from cutting tall grass to cutting up to 2" alder saplings with the 90 and no problems at all. The 4-mix is nice and quiet and has alot of low end grunt.

Good Luck,

RiverLogger


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## tommyus4 (Jun 1, 2012)

Joe G

I agree about the 'just made better'. I also agree about the repair thing. I'm not big on what owners or salesman say unless I know them personally. I trust what people say on these forums as there is no vested interest, just a desire to share experiences and knowledge.

RL

The 90 was my first intention a few weeks ago. I love my Stihl saws. The odds of my wife using a weed whacker are slim to none unless I become slim to none. She has had two back surgeries as she is not allergic to work, just work requiring lifting. She didn't like the 90. If they had the 100, which is 2LBs lighter, who knows.

ENOUGH....it's a weed whacker...lol....love this website...


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## JOE.G (Jun 1, 2012)

The 4 Mix motors are different, It took me a little to get used to it, when I first fired it up I was like whats wrong with it, didn't feel like a normal two stroke wacker, but this think is like a diesel compared to a gas motor tons of low end, and after a few tanks of fuel she loosened up and does spin up some more. I think this motor is a great wacker motor has the low end to cut brush and spins just right to wack the grass and weeds and it jusr doesn't get bogged down like a lot of others this thing keeps on pulling, I am glad I got teh 100 it seems to be a great balance of power and weight


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## tommyus4 (Jun 1, 2012)

All that exposed area. The black wire's coating ends right where the longer black plastic protective tube begins. When that tubing slides, the wire is exposed. Well, it's already exposed but then it's exposed with no coating. Just odd to me. Maybe I am over thinking it but every other trimmer has nothing exposed. Certainly not wires. 

But I like the trimmer speed feed but don't want an Echo.


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## CMREED (Jun 11, 2012)

*Shindiawa hybrid 4-vs stihl 4 mix*

I have the unusual experience of having read and seen animation of one of these engines and had the other engine in hand to examine.

The Shindiawa does something I like by sending all the air/fuel/oil mix to the crankcase and creating a supercharging effect to feed the intake valve. More lube to low end and better volumetric efficiency. I have this information only from the website and have not laid hands on one of these engines. Someone mentioned that the passage to the intake from the crankcase seemed to be an accident waiting to happen. This would require some examination for confirmation or rebuttal.
The Stihl Mix 4 I have disasembled and found no indication of supercharging and only about 1/3 (judging from relative passage sizes) of the air/fuel/oil mix goes through the crankcase.
the crankcase to intake passage was internal and well protected.

Another factor for consideration, from my point of view is the service support. I have had to experience of working for a Echo dealer and found the Stihl dealer to be in hospitable almost rude to in inquires about their products that found their way to my shop. I had many coustomers say that that Stihl dealer was very democratic in their treatment of customers treating all with disdain and indifference. I know not if this was an isolated dealer that had total lack of social graces or if this is normal for Stihl dealers.

Stihl company is one of the few companies that will not publish parts and service information and this makes it difficult to work on and teach from.


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## JOE.G (Jun 11, 2012)

I don't like how the wires are running out side like that, looks cheap and looks like it is ready to get hooked on something rip.


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## JOE.G (Jun 12, 2012)

Just got done burning a tank and a half though the FS 110 R, it is one great whacker.


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## coasteray (Jun 13, 2012)

CMREED said:


> I have the unusual experience of having read and seen animation of one of these engines and had the other engine in hand to examine.
> 
> The Shindiawa does something I like by sending all the air/fuel/oil mix to the crankcase and creating a supercharging effect to feed the intake valve. More lube to low end and better volumetric efficiency. I have this information only from the website and have not laid hands on one of these engines. Someone mentioned that the passage to the intake from the crankcase seemed to be an accident waiting to happen. This would require some examination for confirmation or rebuttal.
> The Stihl Mix 4 I have disasembled and found no indication of supercharging and only about 1/3 (judging from relative passage sizes) of the air/fuel/oil mix goes through the crankcase.
> ...




I'll bet that both systems are well-designed. There's too much at stake for either company to fool around with a design that could be problematic.

Wow. How does this guy stay in business? I haven't noticed that in my area.


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## GASoline71 (Jun 13, 2012)

Moved to chainsaw forum.

Gary


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## Officer's Match (Jun 13, 2012)

Love my Shinny. Got the smaller one and it rocks. Awesome fuel mileage, and great torque. Best I've ever used, and "self supercharging" works as far as I'm concerned.


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## 7600 (Jun 13, 2012)

We use fs 90's at work and they have been nothing but trouble. Too much vibration no power and too much maintainence. Have gone through coils on all of them too.


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 13, 2012)

I love my FS110. 

You seem set on the shin but the Stihl 4 mix has been flawless for me. 

to answer some of your original questions, The Stihl gear head is lubed with thick gease via a threaded grease port. Stihl sells a tube of grease with the matching thread so you just screw in the tube and squeeze. No mess. Easy. There appears to be a nice big bearing that you can see from the underside when the head is off. 

Stihl Ultra synthetic makes a huge difference in carbon. It burns exceptionally clean and it does make a difference. I just pulled the spark screen on mine and it wasn't even close to getting plugged. That's three summers now I think 

As for balance on the Stihl, the handles are adjustable so you set it up to balance right for you depending on height, arm length etc

The Stihl is also the only trimmer I have ever owned with a bump head that works well. I have filled it three times now and it keeps working perfectly. Every other trimmer I have had the damn thing always jams or fouls up and I replace the bump heads with fixed string heads

The 110 will kill saplings, but not with string. It has the power to run a metal blade no problem. I have one of the three cutter metal blades and it has more than enough guts.


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## jus2fat (Jun 13, 2012)

Just out of curiosity...why even mess with the "hybrids"..?? 

If someone wanted 4-stroke torque...why not just buy a Honda..??

Honda is supreme from 'way back' for it's many varied 4-stroke motors.

It is a true 4-stroke and no mixing gas and oil. Gas in one hole..oil in the other.
(I think they only have one trimmer - 35cc..?? - maybe others..??)

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as I've wondered this for some time.

J2F


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## tommyus4 (Jun 13, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Just out of curiosity...why even mess with the "hybrids"..??
> 
> If someone wanted 4-stroke torque...why not just buy a Honda..??
> J2F



That is the conclusion I came to. So, it was between the Husky with the Honda 4s or the Husky 2 stroke 326ls.

I could not find one negative comment about either so I bought the lighter 2 stroke. It's not a beast but it's perfect for normal yard work. Two hours is nothing, it's that light.


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## mweba (Jun 13, 2012)

Husky 324ld or ldx? Mine has been to h and back running a broom, edger and trimmer. Super quiet with great torque and low vibes.


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 13, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Just out of curiosity...why even mess with the "hybrids"..??
> 
> If someone wanted 4-stroke torque...why not just buy a Honda..??
> 
> ...



Stihl FS 110 is 12.1 lbs vs 14.8 lbs. for Honda 35SLT and that is dry weight. You gotta fill it with oil and carry that oil around everywhere. The Honda is also $150 more than the Stihl in Canada. So, 2.7 lbs is the reason!


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## Hustihler (Jun 13, 2012)

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. I help my father cut grass on the side as supplemental income(anything to make a dollar, right). We are not a huge business, by any means. Most of our customers are elderly women, with tons of trees, bushes, flowers, and other numerous obstacles; we also mow some open fields with long ditch lines and fence rows. So our requirements for trimmers are lite and fast for edging work, but adequate power for the overgrown stuff. We started with a used Stihl FS 55 and a "commercial" craftsman 4-cycle, we now own 2 stihls a FS80 and a FS90, and one husqvarna 326LS. The FS 55 didn't hold up (in large part due to the previous owners abuse(bad mix ratios and zero maintenance of any kind) but we got it on the cheap and after it wouldn't restart on a 98 degree day it promptly got traded in on the husky 326LS our first real commercial unit. We looked at or tried echo, shindaiwa, Kawasaki, Honda, and tanaka. 
Here are my personal opinions: the Husqvarna gets used 90% of the time it is very lightweight, revs fast, starts easy, very agile for edging, well-built, View attachment 241638
and has been dead reliable for the past 2 years. The FS90(we've owned this unit for about 1 1/2 years) is also a good unit, but we had issues until we switched to Stihl ultra mix(it's been dead reliable after the switch), the Stihl is definitely bulkier by about 2lbs, it is also slower to spool up due to the 4-mix engine, but it definitely shines when the grass gets thick and heavy-it's a torque monster. I was lucky enough to find a local dealer with a NOS FS 80 this year and so far this has been an awesome find and it kinda splits the difference between the FS90 and the Husky and is greeting more use everyday-it's not quite as lite as the Husky, but a lot lighter than the FS90 and seems to be halfway between the 2 power wise. By the way I sold the craftsman this year to a buddy and it's still running strong, it was always reliable, but just too heavy and bulky for anything other than homeowner use.
I don't claim to be an expert by any means, just giving my personal opinions, I hope this helps. Just so you know we run the shindy speed feed heads on all our trimmers, they sell the heads with a great adaptor kit to fit most major brands.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 13, 2012)

Also when im edging i hold my trimmer sideways or upside down. I dont think id try that with a oil sump.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 13, 2012)

I have a FS 110 and love it. amazing power and smooth.


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## morgaj1 (Jun 13, 2012)

I have a Husqvarna 326LS with a Shindaiwa speed feed head and love the trimmer. It is very light, decent power and dead reliable. I looked at the Stihl FS-90 and FS-110, but did not like the way they felt. I would have looked at the Shindaiwa's but I don't have a local dealer. BTW, I am not brand-loyal. I always stay with one of the major manufacturers and buy what feels good to me. If my 326LS died today, I would go buy another.


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## stihlrookie (Jun 13, 2012)

*FS110 Owner*

I have had the fs110 for 3 years now, used for light commercial work. I take care of 5-10 lawns per week in the summer so it gets a fair amount of use. I have had zero issue with how it runs and the only thing I have had to replace is the bump head, they wear out if you bump them on walkways or rocks frequently as I do. It is very economical on fuel and doesn't seem to produce the stinky exhaust like previous trimmers I have owned. From a cold start mine will usually start on first or second pull even with the choke on. I really like it for its quietness, it is noticably quieter than other trimmers I have used. I have yet to try a saw blade on it but it has plenty of power with the provided line head, I have used it to cut 4 foot tall grasses and weeds on reclaimed properties with no problem. I am looking at buying the edger attachment for it but at 199.00 I am having trouble going ahead on that one.


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## mweba (Jun 13, 2012)

rolltide said:


> Also when im edging i hold my trimmer sideways or upside down. I dont think id try that with a oil sump.



?


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## Officer's Match (Jun 13, 2012)

mweba said:


> ?



Plus with the tiny bit of oil a micro engine like this holds, too close to trouble for me. My Shindaiwa is light, strong and runs FOREVER on a tank of mix. I trimmed heavy grass/weeds from my pond this evening (it's about 1.5 acres) and got done in less than one tank (about an hour and 45 minutes).


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## tommyus4 (Jun 13, 2012)

The Shindaiwa 242 had the best feel and balance by far. It was the shop's recomendation for what I described my use would be. I didn't like the exposed wires.

Shindaiwa lists the weight WITH the head, wheras Husky does not. The Husky felt a pound or so lighter but certainly not 2 plus pounds lighter.

As for the Husky/Honda ,the shop had the Husky 224. I wasn't buying occasional use. I would have ordered the 324.


fwiw the t35 head on the 326ls is not the old school double wind. You hook it and wrap double upped. It is 10X easier
and just easy as the speedwind but not as fast.

My 326ls starts on the first choke pull. If you can switch the 
choke off fast enough, it will stay running . That surprised me. Never seen that before.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 13, 2012)

mweba said:


> ?



Are you trying to say that you wouldn't run into any problems with a tradition 4 stroke running it upside down for periods of time ? I'm not the smartest person but a oil tank upside down would expose the crank to less than adequate lubrication.


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## 0zarks2 (Jun 13, 2012)

tommyus4 said:


> That is the conclusion I came to. So, it was between the Husky with the Honda 4s or the Husky 2 stroke 326ls.
> 
> I could not find one negative comment about either so I bought the lighter 2 stroke. It's not a beast but it's perfect for normal yard work. Two hours is nothing, it's that light.



Same here.......I've got a FS90 that's less than a month old. I haven't been crazy about running it due to the weight. So, I went and bought a Husky 326ls last week. I REALLY like the 326. 

The FS90 gets heavy after awhile. But, it does start easy and has lots of torque. I'm not crazy about the idea of having to adjust valves down the road either.

Now, the 326ls is the perfect weight, starts easy, not quite the low end torque of the FS90 but revs out much quicker so the power is there. I'm so much happier with the 326 that I put the FS90 on Craigslist.


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## mweba (Jun 13, 2012)

rolltide said:


> Are you trying to say that you wouldn't run into any problems with a tradition 4 stroke running it upside down for periods of time ? I'm not the smartest person but a oil tank upside down would expose the crank to less than adequate lubrication.



The Honda oil mist system is designed to run in any position. Mine has been run on its side and more for many hours edging. Have been looking for the Honda diagram but can't seem to find it.

Rent mine out every year for three years for the broom and edger. Not an issue yet. Give you an idea of the torque it has.

[video=youtube_share;xRefW1fPJOk]http://youtu.be/xRefW1fPJOk[/video]


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## tommyus4 (Jun 14, 2012)

I had a Ryobi electric that I bought in 99 (maybe earlier). I had to take the head apart to manually let string out. Talk about annoying.

Needless to say, I trimmed once a year, end of May-ish. Every mowing, now. Sometimes in between. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## cowroy (Jun 14, 2012)

I didn't read all the posts, but I have an FS90 which is the smallest solid shaft trimmer Stihl has. There is a lot of exaggeration when people say "starts on the first pull", well my FS90 has started on the first pull every time I have started it since I bought it new in 09. I have never seen a normal two stroke chainsaw or trimmer of any kind start on the first pull when cold. When I bought the trimmer the fella showed me how to start it which is different than I ever had started on, and it really does start on the first pull every time. It truly blows my mind. I am sure either one you chose will do the same. I have also never used the choke on it, and don't understand that either. Main thing is it works and works well.


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## sawfun9 (Jun 14, 2012)

I've had good luck with my ht100 4-mix I bought new in 2006. It always starts easy and has a ton of torque and works excellent with the hedge trimmer attachment. It's as light as some trimmers without the big engine and the pole. I also have a Shinny 24cc C4 (4-mix) blower I bought 5 years ago and it took a while to break in. I had to play with the choke quite a bit but now it runs perfect. I like the low RPM of the 4-mixers which makes them quieter in a neighborhood than a 2 stroke.


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## JOE.G (Jun 14, 2012)

When are you guys with the 4 Mix Stihls, adjusting your valves? Mine starts first pull every time.


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## cowroy (Jun 14, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> When are you guys with the 4 Mix Stihls, adjusting your valves? Mine starts first pull every time.



Very good question. I would like to know also. I hope many more years from now.


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## tallguys (Jun 14, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Just out of curiosity...why even mess with the "hybrids"..??
> 
> If someone wanted 4-stroke torque...why not just buy a Honda..?




I agree, which is why I stayed with just the plain old reliable two-stroke. KISS principle. I didn't like the idea of having valves to adjust when the tried and true just works. 

Never had a moments trouble with my Shindy T270 or an even older Kawasaki which I keep around because its so light.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 14, 2012)

About every 100 hours they say to adjust the valves. Its very easy. Stihl offers a adjusting kit that comes with the feeler gauge, a new gasket, and new copper washer. It cost a couple dollars and will only take a few mins to do. Ive done many of them.


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## CJ1 (Jun 14, 2012)

I can't comment on the Shindaiwa, but my 130 gets run hard for hours at a time clearing trails. So far I have been through a couple of huskys [my preferred brand] but they do not compare with the Stihl for torque and the ability to cut big stuff with a trimmer head/chain. I have been extremely pleased with the 130. It always starts first or second pull even after sitting all winter. CJ


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## 7sleeper (Jun 14, 2012)

I cannot comment on 4mix engines but I have a small Honda bruschcutter and am etrermely happy with it. So easy to start I was shocked the first time I used it! No more yanking around just a easy soft pull. Very easy on fuel. I bought a Husqvarna trimmer head for it because I was unhappy with the original. The harness isn't that great either. But these where easily replaced. 
I also have a FS 120 and a KM 85 and am equally happy with them. They all have their area where they shine. 

7


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## JOE.G (Jun 14, 2012)

Rolltide is there a Place online to get the procedure? What are the signs that they need to be done?


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## Roll Tide (Jun 14, 2012)

You remove the engine cover, then remove the valve cover. bring the motor to TOP making sure both valves are closed. stick the inclued feeler gauge between the top of the valve and the rocker arm.you want the feeler gauge to go between without force but without play between. I always turn the motor over a few times and do it all over again. replace everything and your good to go. Ive found some machines that wont idle, wont rev, a few different problems. Ive seen them drop the push rod . like i said the kit is only a few dollars so i do mine at the end of every season. Im sure its more than needed but heck why not.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 14, 2012)

TDC sorry lol


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## timmcat (Jun 14, 2012)

Shindaiwa wants the valves checked with yearly service as well. The symptoms of valves out of adjustment on Shindaiwas is mostly hard pulling effort on the recoil and low top end power or lack of rpms. Having serviced both I would go Shindaiwa as I've seen alot of carb trouble on the Zama carbs that Stihl uses. The sealant that they put on the funny shaped welch plugs tends to break free and clog the internal passages, low success rate cleaning them even with a ultra sonic.


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## mweba (Jun 14, 2012)

timmcat said:


> Shindaiwa wants the valves checked with yearly service as well. The symptoms of valves out of adjustment on Shindaiwas is mostly hard pulling effort on the recoil and low top end power or lack of rpms. Having serviced both I would go Shindaiwa as I've seen alot of carb trouble on the Zama carbs that Stihl uses. The sealant that they put on the funny shaped welch plugs tends to break free and clog the internal passages, low success rate cleaning them even with a ultra sonic.



+1 several with this issue


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## lps8 (Jun 15, 2012)

*trimmer caster wheel*

Have been following this thread even though I hate grass trimming. Have a Husky 4 stroke, runs fine, starts easy. Just use it for our little farm and a little at our business weekly.

My back bothers me when I trim (well, it hurts most of the time anyway, but more when I trim), so I came up with a little help. 

When working on level ground, I just roll it around. It helps cutting thick grass smoothly also.

Larry

View attachment 241734


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## coasteray (Jun 15, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> When are you guys with the 4 Mix Stihls, adjusting your valves? Mine starts first pull every time.




I can't quite remember where I read it (a web site or forum), but the adjustment is needed at about 125 hours. This is assuming you take care of the engine. Using Stihl's Ultra synthetic oil is probably is good way to do that. The adjustment issue is an easy topic to Google.


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## tdi-rick (Jun 15, 2012)

No valve adjustments with the Honda and as mweba said, they work fine on their sides or totally inverted 

Shinny's have been the choice of most landscape pro's here for a long time, but I've noticed the large (5000 acre) t/bred stud next door and the local council are running Honda trimmers/brushcutters now.


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## JOE.G (Jun 15, 2012)

Stihl's Ultra synthetic oil is all i run now, I used to use Amsoil Dominator with 112 Oct gas from the sleds in everything since it was handy.


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## 7sleeper (Jun 15, 2012)

lps8 said:


> Have been following this thread even though I hate grass trimming. Have a Husky 4 stroke, runs fine, starts easy. Just use it for our little farm and a little at our business weekly.
> 
> My back bothers me when I trim (well, it hurts most of the time anyway, but more when I trim), so I came up with a little help.
> 
> ...



Now that is just plain ingenious!  I don't have any problems sofar but I hope I remember it if I do get problems.

7


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## opinion (Jun 15, 2012)

tdi-rick said:


> No valve adjustments with the Honda and as mweba said, they work fine on their sides or totally inverted




Valve adjustments are necessary on Honda as well, it is a 4-stroke. I sell both Stihl & Honda, I sell the Honda to people who don't want to mix gas & oil. The performance just isn't there for the Honda. It is the smoothest and quietest of them all though.


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## tdi-rick (Jun 15, 2012)

opinion said:


> Valve adjustments are necessary on Honda as well, it is a 4-stroke. I sell both Stihl & Honda, I sell the Honda to people who don't want to mix gas & oil. The performance just isn't there for the Honda. It is the smoothest and quietest of them all though.



Yep, I just checked the manual, oops 

I've never bothered/thought to on ours. 
Many years ago SWMBO came home with the Honda (without any consultation !) 
At the time I would have gone straight to the Stihl dealer as that's what we had in the past but I was surprised at the torque of the four stroke and softened to it quite a bit with a little use.

BTW, removing the spark screen wakes up the Honda quite a bit.


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 15, 2012)

opinion said:


> Valve adjustments are necessary on Honda as well, it is a 4-stroke. I sell both Stihl & Honda, I sell the Honda to people who don't want to mix gas & oil. The performance just isn't there for the Honda. It is the smoothest and quietest of them all though.



that's interesting. 2.7 lbs heavier than a Stihl 110 and more expensive here as well. I thought they at least had more power.


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## troutmansawtech (Jun 16, 2012)

*Shindaiwa is awsome*

I work at a shindaiwa dealer and may be biased but there the easiest to start,less vibration lightweight and plenty of power.you can get a base 242 straight shaft for 299.99,and a 242x with a blade adapter harness and the stob on the handle.for 319.99.they are both warrantied for 2 years mechanical and lifetime ignition and we do stand behind our trimmers edgers hedgetrimmers to the end.i got one of our used t20s that was laying around and got it running for myself.its only a 21.4 cc engine but its very strong and lightweight.i will never buy another brand but its my opinion.go to a dealer and have em fire one up and just get a feel for each brand thats the best way to make yourself happy.if they want the sell they will gas one up and stand behind it.good luck john.AND OUR E4S ARE VERY WELL BUILT AND HAVE PLENTY OF JUICE AND LIGHT WEIGHT TO WORK EM WITHOUT MUCH FATIGUE.AGAIN HOPE YOU FIND ONE YOU LIKE WHEREEVER YOU BUY FROM.JUST STAY AWAY FROM BOX STORES,LOL


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## Officer's Match (Jun 16, 2012)

Initial start is pretty normal (choke, pull, pop, choke off, start), but after that, a ridiculously easy starter (warm). (Shinny)


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## coasteray (Jun 16, 2012)

lps8 said:


> Have been following this thread even though I hate grass trimming. Have a Husky 4 stroke, runs fine, starts easy. Just use it for our little farm and a little at our business weekly.
> 
> My back bothers me when I trim (well, it hurts most of the time anyway, but more when I trim), so I came up with a little help.
> 
> ...




Where did you get that arm and wheel? That's pretty cool!


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## lps8 (Jun 16, 2012)

*caster wheel*



coasteray said:


> Where did you get that arm and wheel? That's pretty cool!



The caster is from hf, the clamp is one I had left over from my racing days. The tubing is 1/2" id 3/4" od with a 1/2 bolt welded in flush and screwed into the clamp. The other end is welded to the caster. The clamp can be loosened and moved to change adjustment. 

I have often wondered if there would be a market for this. I have never seen one for sale. The only thing I could think of is that after the first one came out, copies would be on the ship the next week.

Larry

I think it is ok to put a link to this page as it is not arborist related, but here is one source for a clamp All-In-One Accessory Clamps - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop


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## lmalterna (Jun 16, 2012)

I have no experience for comparison but 3 three years on my FS90R and no complaints at all. Starts easy, cuts strong. Seems heavy but I have only handled and not actually used the comparable models.

Bill


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## flyboy (Jun 16, 2012)

I have had the KM90 for 3 years now. It is absolutely flawless. It starts on the 1st pull after winter storage.

I have the pole saw with the extension, brush saw, line trimmer, and edger. All work perfectly. The pole saw end is downright addictive. There is not a single branch on my property below 11 feet.

I will probably get the tiller next and then the hedge trimmer. I really want the flapper broom for cleaning up sawdust after cord wood cutting....but at $300.....


I have two friends that have the km90 as well. Not a single issue to note.


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## coasteray (Jun 23, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> I love my FS110.
> 
> You seem set on the shin but the Stihl 4 mix has been flawless for me.
> 
> ...




I'm late in responding, but thanks for the good comments. After having spent more time researching and visiting local dealers, I've decided to buy the KM110R for using attachments. For the same money as the Shindaiwa M254, the KM110R offers more power, which I can use. I still think Shindaiwa is excellent, by the way, so it's not a knock against them. Thanks for your input about Stihl and the Stihl Ultra oil. I'm going to get the fixed head for the string, but it's good to know Stihl has a bump head that works well.


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## JOE.G (Jun 23, 2012)

The stihl bump works real nice, I have a fixed head that has teh line and plastic teeth which works nice also.


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## coasteray (Jun 26, 2012)

I just bought the KM110R (and got the free Kombi rack with it) at my local Stihl full-scale dealer. I'm starting out with the trimmer attachment and will try out the .13 line. However, today it's raining hard, so my plans to use it right away are gone for awhile. Oh, well.


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## Applehead (Jun 26, 2012)

absolutely love the speed feed..






Never had any issues with the wire..





This 242 has been good to me; easy starts, does what it is sposed to. Feed it only ethanol free fuel and grease the head once a yr. and yer good to go.

I also had a fs55, that was a real pos. 
my .02

Good luck with yer choice.


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## cowroy (Jun 27, 2012)

I got my dad a speed feed for his 1987 model t-18 Shindaiwa for fathers day. He loves it! Thinking about buying one for myself.


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## tommyus4 (Jun 28, 2012)

Thinking of going 4 mix for a blower. For my needs (pre-snow blower light snow, wet leaves, rocks coming down the non paved driveway) the more power and torque the better. 

I was supposed to buy a monster saw this week but shttt happens and now I'm in the mood to buy something. I would think this would be a good time to get a deal on a blower.

p.s.

Still very happy with the 326ls


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## coasteray (Jun 29, 2012)

I finally got to try out my new Stihl KM110R with the trimmer attachment. I plowed through tall grass and scrubby stuff without any effort, using .130 string. Lots of power and you don't have to rev it. It just goes like through it all so easily. So far, so good.


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## JOE.G (Jun 29, 2012)

I have a Stihl BR 600 Magnum blower, This thing blows, in a good way. I do recommend it.


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## Saw Dr. (Jun 29, 2012)

The new BR430 is pretty impressive too, but it is not a 4 stroke. I think that will be my next blower.


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## opinion (Jun 29, 2012)

The 430 is nice but the power is similar to the 550. I'd rather use the 600.


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