# Case 300 3-53 Detroit



## 4x4American (May 29, 2013)

Seen one of these old gems on the side of the road for sale, asking 9 grand obo. Looks real tough, like what a real skidder was, not like the new era tennis shoe logging equipment is nowadays.

Can anyone share any info on these? years of production, memories driving one, how they do in the woods...that kinda stuff


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## jrcat (May 29, 2013)

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/236501-4.htm


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## 4x4American (May 30, 2013)

wow...thats a fairly new thread...taint got on the computer in awhile


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## northmanlogging (May 30, 2013)

you still working in the woods?


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## 4x4American (Jun 2, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> you still working in the woods?



nope, done with that ax men like crew, that crew was one bunch of miserable bastards made work suck. im a welder fabricator now for the time being, trying to get into pipeline welding.


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## redprospector (Jun 2, 2013)

That didn't take too long. 

Andy


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## 4x4American (Jun 3, 2013)

redprospector said:


> That didn't take too long.
> 
> Andy



nope. my friends dad wants me to work for his logging company, he's about 200 miles away though and id have to move out there but i gotta lotta friends and some family in the area so i might do that in awhile for awhile... i wanna move out there anyways. I liked working in the woods alot, when i was off on my own making my own decisions. but so much dumb things went on. they were unsafe as hell, i watched one guy run from a tree in the direction it was falling to save a destroyed bar, he barely made it, i seen a tree fall on the skidder, the skidder operator would get pissed easily and go crazy not caring if anyone was in the way or not, over stupid things, put me and some other guy in pretty tight places, seen tree after tree not go even close to where it was supposed to when the truck driver was out there in the bush, had to get that guy unstuck every ten minutes it seemed, bossman made us do that bore cut and release dance around every tree with a conventional notch, freaked out if i threw in a humboldt, lots of yelling, lots of anger all the time. it was just sketchy because of stupid things. and the most experienced guy on the crew besides the boss was a disagreeable bi polar guy who had 7 months experience in the woods before me. the bossman seemed to go through workers quick... there wasnt really enough work either, I had so many days off working for him. I was losing quite a bit of money working for him. He also promised me a raise that never came. Despite all that I do think that the boss really is a good guy, he bought us coffee and egg sandwich in the morn and alot of the times lunch too. Had alot of funny things to say, was always in a good mood in the morn. Anyways..yup that's what I'm up to now. I'm still cutting wood for firewood and cutting trees down and milling them on a CSM I built when I wasn't having much work. Been practicing chainsaw carving too.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 3, 2013)

That is unfortunate. If the woods is in ya you'll find your way back to em.


My machine shop boss was talking about hacks-men today... I had to inform him that things wern't really like that in the woods, and if some jerk was yelling and screaming all the time, and just generally being stupid, he'd find himself where the cadaver dogs would have trouble finding him, or with a whole bunch of ruined expensive equipment and nobody showing up on Monday to pay for it.

but I digress, 

you looking into maybe buying that old Case skidder? Going it on your own?... some would say don't do it, I say take the reins and run like Hel...


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## redprospector (Jun 3, 2013)

4x4American said:


> nope. my friends dad wants me to work for his logging company, he's about 200 miles away though and id have to move out there but i gotta lotta friends and some family in the area so i might do that in awhile for awhile... i wanna move out there anyways. I liked working in the woods alot, when i was off on my own making my own decisions. but so much dumb things went on. they were unsafe as hell, i watched one guy run from a tree in the direction it was falling to save a destroyed bar, he barely made it, i seen a tree fall on the skidder, the skidder operator would get pissed easily and go crazy not caring if anyone was in the way or not, over stupid things, put me and some other guy in pretty tight places, seen tree after tree not go even close to where it was supposed to when the truck driver was out there in the bush, had to get that guy unstuck every ten minutes it seemed, bossman made us do that bore cut and release dance around every tree with a conventional notch, freaked out if i threw in a humboldt, lots of yelling, lots of anger all the time. it was just sketchy because of stupid things. and the most experienced guy on the crew besides the boss was a disagreeable bi polar guy who had 7 months experience in the woods before me. the bossman seemed to go through workers quick... there wasnt really enough work either, I had so many days off working for him. I was losing quite a bit of money working for him. He also promised me a raise that never came. Despite all that I do think that the boss really is a good guy, he bought us coffee and egg sandwich in the morn and alot of the times lunch too. Had alot of funny things to say, was always in a good mood in the morn. Anyways..yup that's what I'm up to now. I'm still cutting wood for firewood and cutting trees down and milling them on a CSM I built when I wasn't having much work. Been practicing chainsaw carving too.



Haha. I'm just giving you a hard time.
I'm one of those guy's that will smile at you and say "I told you so".
Good luck with your new endevours. 

Andy


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## 4x4American (Jun 5, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Haha. I'm just giving you a hard time.
> I'm one of those guy's that will smile at you and say "I told you so".
> Good luck with your new endevours.
> 
> Andy



Thanks feller...or are you a faller?


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## 4x4American (Jun 5, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> That is unfortunate. If the woods is in ya you'll find your way back to em.
> 
> 
> My machine shop boss was talking about hacks-men today... I had to inform him that things wern't really like that in the woods, and if some jerk was yelling and screaming all the time, and just generally being stupid, he'd find himself where the cadaver dogs would have trouble finding him, or with a whole bunch of ruined expensive equipment and nobody showing up on Monday to pay for it.
> ...



Thats a big ten fir on that one..and well I don't have the money for it right now, but I can dream can't I! I was just curious about it, the older equipment from 19 forever ago really gets me going. I'd love to get something on my own going but for right now I'm just trying to get by and get established. If I end up moving out there I will most likely start working in the woods with that guy to get me started, then I'll go from there. My pops was also telling me how out in Montana there's a lot of work for a welder..and I gotta say I like welding and cutting trees about the same. I'd say they're my two favorite types of work, with welding being a little bit more forgiving. Most of the times a welder can grind his mistakes, a logger on the other hand as you all most proberly know, well if he or someone else around him makes mistakes he might not come home the same way he went to work or he might not come home at all....and lastly a cook well...he can eat his mistakes that's plan z for me


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## 4x4American (Jul 1, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> That is unfortunate. If the woods is in ya you'll find your way back to em.
> 
> 
> My machine shop boss was talking about hacks-men today... I had to inform him that things wern't really like that in the woods, and if some jerk was yelling and screaming all the time, and just generally being stupid, he'd find himself where the cadaver dogs would have trouble finding him, or with a whole bunch of ruined expensive equipment and nobody showing up on Monday to pay for it.
> ...



hey how hard is the whole runnin yer own numbers deal doing a side business?


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## RVALUE (Jul 1, 2013)

I have a 3 -53, Still in crate, I'd take $ 1500. for.


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## jwilly (Jul 1, 2013)

In a crate? How complete is it?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 1, 2013)

jwilly said:


> In a crate? How complete is it?



hey i'd like to hear bout this too. what bellhousing?


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## northmanlogging (Jul 1, 2013)

4x4American said:


> hey how hard is the whole runnin yer own numbers deal doing a side business?



So far its not to bad, just keep track of your pays and owes, keep receipts, keep track of yer mileage ( I don't bother with the mileage end). Don't have to pay into LI for an owner operator in Warshington... (means I can not get hurt while logging... I do have medical and stuff though my day job... one more reason to keep it) contact your local county/township for local taxes.

You might save yourself a bit of headache by hiring an accountant... although what you pay them could be what you where supposed to get paid...

Quick books is supposed to be pretty good, I had the wifey make up an excell type thing makes it easy. and I can see at a glance where I'm at for the year as far as profits etc. and how much I'm burning in diesel, saw parts, machine parts etc. ad nauseum... 

If your going to jump into it, make sure you do as much wrenching on your own as you can, grease is your friend, look at and analyze every cost to find a way to make it smaller, without sacrificing production to much or safety at all.

I've only been doing this a short time compared to some others on here, maybe they could chip in? As far as running the business end of things I really just cross my fingers and hope I'm legal... Tax laws can be a bit of a nightmare...

Now if your talking about busheling I.E. getting paid for what you cut in a day... not my bag, I go for day rate or %. others could tell you more about that end of it.


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## dooby (Jul 2, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey i'd like to hear bout this too. what bellhousing?



Me too-PM me and we can discuss a puchase if every thing will work out. I want it for an IH S8 skidder.uttahere2:opcorn:


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## dooby (Jul 2, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> So far its not to bad, just keep track of your pays and owes, keep receipts, keep track of yer mileage ( I don't bother with the mileage end). Don't have to pay into LI for an owner operator in Warshington... (means I can not get hurt while logging... I do have medical and stuff though my day job... one more reason to keep it) contact your local county/township for local taxes.
> 
> You might save yourself a bit of headache by hiring an accountant... although what you pay them could be what you where supposed to get paid...
> 
> ...


This is pretty good advice. Quick Books pro is alright, this year we are using an accountant because we gotten into wildlands firefighting for the govt.(I'd rather pay him than pay Uncle Spam)Don't know if you are a cutter or not, if you aren't ;you should maybe look for some exp. there.(no partners, they suck!)As far as how to bid, each job will be different. Mostly I am against day pay or hourly stuff but you have to set a rates because a little 1/2 load job will involve bidding,transportation of equipment,labor,fuel,oil,hauling,etc.,etc. Out here in Mt. fuel reduction is huge. It is not uncommon to get up to $3500 per acre plus the timber. But in the logging scheme of things its not that so. Out here it is almost all by the ton, some pay by the board foot(only when the scale is poor.lol) My hr. rate comes together like this. $65.00 hr. for operatore and skidder or crawler, $50.00 per hr. for falling/bucking, trucks sub to me for $85.00 hr. And clean up is at $20.00 for hand piling. Post and rail sales r up out here so there is almost zero waste in the lodge pole pine and sometimes fir. And the bigger, gnarly, unmerch. stuff w/ forks and burls and catfaces should be salvaged and sold or used to carvers. If it were me I might talk to your friends dad and tell him your dreams, maybe he would let you sub from him and it would be like O.J.T. . I will say again, i don't know your exp. level so don't take anything as a slam. Desire first, then ability, then experience. and the most important thing is to remember to be safe. Don't take silly chances when 20 min. more at the end of the day is all the safe route would have taken. S.T.O.P.(stop,think,observe,plan) And don't forget to look up (a lot)IMHO


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 2, 2013)

dooby said:


> Me too-PM me and we can discuss a puchase if every thing will work out. I want it for an IH S8 skidder.uttahere2:opcorn:



your s8 has a 3-53? mine has a 358 ih engine and funk power shift.


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## 4x4American (Jul 2, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> So far its not to bad, just keep track of your pays and owes, keep receipts, keep track of yer mileage ( I don't bother with the mileage end). Don't have to pay into LI for an owner operator in Warshington... (means I can not get hurt while logging... I do have medical and stuff though my day job... one more reason to keep it) contact your local county/township for local taxes.
> 
> You might save yourself a bit of headache by hiring an accountant... although what you pay them could be what you where supposed to get paid...
> 
> ...



man that sounds pretty complex for me!


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## RVALUE (Jul 2, 2013)

jwilly said:


> In a crate? How complete is it?



It was dubbed as a fan to flywheel? I've had it a while. It may be a factory re-man.


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## RVALUE (Jul 2, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey i'd like to hear bout this too. what bellhousing?



???? What do I look for?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 2, 2013)

RVALUE said:


> ???? What do I look for?



i'm no expert, but if ya measure across bolt hole to bolt hole, should be able to figure it out. do you know what application it was made for? loader, skidder,power unit? what injectors? look at plate on valve cover.


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## dooby (Jul 2, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> your s8 has a 3-53? mine has a 358 ih engine and funk power shift.



it's not really mine yet. I have been sub-leasing it from a friend. Will be out there this weekend and will take a pic. of it. It's not in the best of shape, but still very functional. The Detroit in it now is getin' tiered. Do you know if a Cummins can bolt up? Found a JD 440c today that has been sittin' for 8 yrs. without being started. It needs new wires,tires,and the fuel tanks flushed or replaced. The owner said it ran strong when it was parked. I would rather put my money on that S8 though.


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## RVALUE (Jul 2, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm no expert, but if ya measure across bolt hole to bolt hole, should be able to figure it out. do you know what application it was made for? loader, skidder,power unit? what injectors? look at plate on valve cover.



Perfect answer to the question.


I'll do it.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 2, 2013)

dooby said:


> it's not really mine yet. I have been sub-leasing it from a friend. Will be out there this weekend and will take a pic. of it. It's not in the best of shape, but still very functional. The Detroit in it now is getin' tiered. Do you know if a Cummins can bolt up? Found a JD 440c today that has been sittin' for 8 yrs. without being started. It needs new wires,tires,and the fuel tanks flushed or replaced. The owner said it ran strong when it was parked. I would rather put my money on that S8 though.



if it came with a Detroit it's an older one. not sure bout putting a cummins in it. I was gonna put one in my 664, learned the converter by not work right with it, wrong stall. at least have to have the right bell housing and flywheel. oil pan. manual or power shift my make a diff. also. if that ih is a real early one, the 440 could be a better option. depends on condition. i'm a little biased, I just don't like a manual trans in a skidder. any brand, but that's just me.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 2, 2013)

The syncro pain in my deere isn't too bad... 

The old Mountain logger I ran had a standard H 4 speed in it... That was a real pain, if I remember correctly it had a reverser in it and for a 11-12 year old brat with small feet it was a bit much to figure out in short order.


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## dooby (Jul 3, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> if it came with a Detroit it's an older one. not sure bout putting a cummins in it. I was gonna put one in my 664, learned the converter by not work right with it, wrong stall. at least have to have the right bell housing and flywheel. oil pan. manual or power shift my make a diff. also. if that ih is a real early one, the 440 could be a better option. depends on condition. i'm a little biased, I just don't like a manual trans in a skidder. any brand, but that's just me.



It's the older model. The winch is the older model also. $1500.00 for a fresh eng. or re gasket and seal-up a machine i don't know anything about... Would you still run w/ the Deere?opcorn:


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## redprospector (Jul 3, 2013)

Dooby,
My little 440b sat for 6 years before I bought it. I drained & flushed the lines as good as I could, bled the system, and on about the 5th revolution trying to start her she fired right up. I've been running her since 04 and finally had to put a hyd. pump, and injectors in 2 years ago.
In my opinion, nothing runs like a deere...unless it's not running. Then pretty much anything will do. :msp_laugh:

Andy


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## dooby (Jul 3, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Dooby,
> My little 440b sat for 6 years before I bought it. I drained & flushed the lines as good as I could, bled the system, and on about the 5th revolution trying to start her she fired right up. I've been running her since 04 and finally had to put a hyd. pump, and injectors in 2 years ago.
> In my opinion, nothing runs like a deere...unless it's not running. Then pretty much anything will do. :msp_laugh:
> 
> Andy



This 440 Might be worth pursuing. I know the price is right. Its gonna need tires very soon, and new hyd. lines. All of my memories about 440's is that they are tippy. The weight of the 440 sure appeals to me though. That S8 that i sub-lease is heavy but very stable. I wa told IHC sold there skidder design to Cat and that's how the 518s got here. I haven't looked into that yet, but does anyone know if that is correct?


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## dooby (Jul 3, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> The syncro pain in my deere isn't too bad...
> 
> The old Mountain logger I ran had a standard H 4 speed in it... That was a real pain, if I remember correctly it had a reverser in it and for a 11-12 year old brat with small feet it was a bit much to figure out in short order.



Mountain Loggers were made in Kalispell,Mt.(about 70 miles from my place) before they moved to Washington. The first ones were put together w/ junkyard parts,if i was told correctly. A guy i used to cut for had a big one, not sure of the size. It had a double drum winch set-up on it. Only one winch work during my time around it but he always bragged about how good it would pull with both winches loaded up. I remember him always cussin' out Dodge for there trans., but he was pretty hard on his equipment.LOL


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## jrcat (Jul 3, 2013)

I dont know. Cats are all Cat. even right down the axles. Aside of having gear matic winches on em. Cats center pivot design is like nothing I have seen on any other skidder. The only design I've seen that comes close is that of a Franklin. But I do stand to be corrected.


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## dooby (Jul 3, 2013)

I was just doing a google search on this and can't find anything. this weekend I will be around a cat mech. maybe he will know. The Cat 518 w/ swing boom is my favorite all time skidder. they are heavy and the most stable machine I have ran. A little hard on fuel but the production is worth it. They are very popular out west.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 3, 2013)

dooby said:


> This 440 Might be worth pursuing. I know the price is right. Its gonna need tires very soon, and new hyd. lines. All of my memories about 440's is that they are tippy. The weight of the 440 sure appeals to me though. That S8 that i sub-lease is heavy but very stable. I wa told IHC sold there skidder design to Cat and that's how the 518s got here. I haven't looked into that yet, but does anyone know if that is correct?



don't know bout that, cat was around before ih quit. i'd say an ih is quite a bit lighter than a cat, around 540 weight. ih oscilates in the front, cat in the back like a franklin. cat is a good machine tho.


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## jrcat (Jul 3, 2013)

dooby said:


> I was just doing a google search on this and can't find anything. this weekend I will be around a cat mech. maybe he will know. The Cat 518 w/ swing boom is my favorite all time skidder. they are heavy and the most stable machine I have ran. A little hard on fuel but the production is worth it. They are very popular out west.


Those 518's have been built the same for years. They are a very tough machine.


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## jrcat (Jul 3, 2013)

Caterpillar 518 Skidder

According to the specs the 3304 is 7L or 425 cubes. No wonder why they suck some fuel :msp_scared: For a 4 cyl. thats only 20 cubes less than the V8 in my truck lol. I wonder how the 528's fair on fuel with a 3306 in em .. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!


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## jrcat (Jul 3, 2013)

This thing is just a monster ..holy sheep chit...
Caterpillar 518 Skidder

Caterpillar 528 Skidder - RitchieWiki


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## redprospector (Jul 4, 2013)

dooby said:


> This 440 Might be worth pursuing. I know the price is right. Its gonna need tires very soon, and new hyd. lines. All of my memories about 440's is that they are tippy. The weight of the 440 sure appeals to me though. That S8 that i sub-lease is heavy but very stable. I wa told IHC sold there skidder design to Cat and that's how the 518s got here. I haven't looked into that yet, but does anyone know if that is correct?



It's kinda like asking which saw is best, brand x or brand b? Everyone will vote for what they have, or have ran and liked. It's all opinion (including mine).
The tippy feature that JD installed on all 440's can be cured with about 130 gallons of winter blend windshield washer fluid pumped into the rear tires. Problem solved.
I hauled my 440b half way across New Mexico on a 14K gooseneck to get it home. Bet ya can't do that with an S8.

Andy


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## dooby (Jul 4, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Caterpillar#518#Skidder
> 
> According to the specs the 3304 is 7L or 425 cubes. No wonder why they suck some fuel :msp_scared: For a 4 cyl. thats only 20 cubes less than the V8 in my truck lol. I wonder how the 528's fair on fuel with a 3306 in em .. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!



Jrcat-Thanks for the spec. link !!! I didn't know that existed. I wounder if there is one avail. for older machinery. W/ 7-8 hrs. on the timer in average mountain skidding the 518's that ive been around wre going through 17-25 gallons a day. The JD's would use less fuel but could not skid the same ground a 518, but the JD's are a faster machine, I will give them that. Way diff. tranny's.


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## dooby (Jul 4, 2013)

redprospector said:


> It's kinda like asking which saw is best, brand x or brand b? Everyone will vote for what they have, or have ran and liked. It's all opinion (including mine).
> The tippy feature that JD installed on all 440's can be cured with about 130 gallons of winter blend windshield washer fluid pumped into the rear tires. Problem solved.
> I hauled my 440b half way across New Mexico on a 14K gooseneck to get it home. Bet ya can't do that with an S8.
> 
> Andy



I know, right. the 440 is a very lite, nimble machine and for the little acreage sub divisions in the N.W.. they would be perfect. we trailer that S8 on a gooseneck all the time but we are slippin' scales when Roscoe is in bed.LOL


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## northmanlogging (Jul 4, 2013)

dooby said:


> Jrcat-Thanks for the spec. link !!! I didn't know that existed. I wounder if there is one avail. for older machinery. W/ 7-8 hrs. on the timer in average mountain skidding the 518's that ive been around wre going through 17-25 gallons a day. The JD's would use less fuel but could not skid the same ground a 518, but the JD's are a faster machine, I will give them that. Way diff. tranny's.



The missus is only burning about 4 gallons a day, and that's if I get real ambitious and go for two loads, pulling a medium steep hill and some largish hemlock.

I could feasibly get 3 loads out of her if I beat on her and myself but what would be the point in that?


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## dooby (Jul 4, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> The missus is only burning about 4 gallons a day, and that's if I get real ambitious and go for two loads, pulling a medium steep hill and some largish hemlock.
> 
> I could feasibly get 3 loads out of her if I beat on her and myself but what would be the point in that?



We are comparing an Apple and an Orange. A 518 vs. 440 is not even a fair comparison. Didn't mean to bring it up that way or run down 440's. I am into ultra-light, cheap, etc. think i was referring more to stability and weight. I have an apt. on Mon. to try and start the previously mentioned 440 w/ a comp. mech to assist me. will post a video of this Monday night ! How does every body like the winches on the "B" models ?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 4, 2013)

winch is ok on um. only trouble I know of is brake band but that's any dry band system.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 5, 2013)

dooby said:


> We are comparing an Apple and an Orange. A 518 vs. 440 is not even a fair comparison. Didn't mean to bring it up that way or run down 440's. I am into ultra-light, cheap, etc. think i was referring more to stability and weight. I have an apt. on Mon. to try and start the previously mentioned 440 w/ a comp. mech to assist me. will post a video of this Monday night ! How does every body like the winches on the "B" models ?



It ok I get it, just boggles my mind how much fuel some of the bigger machines burn in a day... for a lowly gypo pulling in 15 loads a day would be astronomical... so paying for a big ole cat skidder would be like having a 429 cobra jet with a super charger wedged into a datsun b210....


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## RVALUE (Jul 9, 2013)

I drug out the 353.

I took a picture of the plate, but there was some glare. Is the configuration hidden in the serial number?

The starter spun, but the bendix didn't engage. (are they negative ground?) 

I spun the engine about an inch with a socket and rachet.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 9, 2013)

RVALUE said:


> I drug out the 353.
> 
> I took a picture of the plate, but there was some glare. Is the configuration hidden in the serial number?
> 
> ...



that plate should have the specs such as injector size and governed free speed. should be neg. ground. prolly not stuck, if stored in side. be carful trying to turn over, them things will start if any fuel in the head at all.


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## RVALUE (Jul 9, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> that plate should have the specs such as injector size and governed free speed. should be neg. ground. prolly not stuck, if stored in side. be carful trying to turn over, them things will start if any fuel in the head at all.



Never had fuel or oil. New rebuilt, then stored.

I'll look again.


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## RVALUE (Jul 9, 2013)

The plate I found has that it was not bored over when rebuilt.

There are 12 main bolts around the flywheel, and one on the starter.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 9, 2013)

not being smart, but pics may be simpler.


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## RVALUE (Jul 9, 2013)

If I was smart, pics would be _easier._


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