# Very new to climbing



## Sine Metu (Jun 5, 2010)

Hi all, I am very new to climbing, I've just been going around doing some HW on everything looking at stuff to add to my equipment... So far my one question has to do with a 5/8" steel core flipline...what are the pros and cons of this kind of flipline, versus, just a regular 16-strand, 5/8"?...I mean there is the obvious it wont cut or wear like a regular rope, but as far as function goes, along with weight and the such what is the consensus? Thanks in advance!


-Anthony


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## tree md (Jun 6, 2010)

I prefer a 1/2" steel core. Haven't tried a 5/8" but I imagine it would be a little heavier to carry with you. I don't look at a steel core as a means of safety against being cut into with a saw. Tests have shown that they can be cut through pretty easily, not as much so as a rope lanyard but if you ever see a vid of the tests done it is still pretty much instantaneous when laid into with a wide open saw. The real benefit of the steel core in my opinion is the stiffness of it and the ability to be able to flip it up the tree. A rope lanyard is hard, if not down right impossible to flip up a large trunk as you go up the tree. Also, it is easier to flip it up an ivy covered trunk. It is just easier to work with in some situations than a rope lanyard.

Hope this helps. Welcome to the site.


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## treemandan (Jun 6, 2010)

Are you guys Marines or skinheads? Just asking.
That steelcore is gonna irritate you in tight spots. Its probably gonna do more harm than good.
Sure I have hit the lanyard with the saw before... once, my first 6 months of climbing. And that cured me. Everytime you cut near the ropes you look to see.
But if you are spiking up fat long sticks the wire can help, its just harder to work on smaller wood though a little safer than no wire.
I am not sure what's up with the Devil looking picture nor do I know latin but I am going with Marines... I hope.


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## RedlineIt (Jun 6, 2010)

Anthony,

Steelcore fliplines predate chainsaws, so you can't say they were designed to give you safety from being cut, they were made to be easy to flip up the back side of large diameter trees as you spur up, and for that, there is nothing else.

I've used 1/2" and 5/8" and settled on 5/8". Figure if I'm going to carry that weight, I may as well get the stiffest, most flippable bang for the buck.

I experimented with a flipline I made up from some real stiff marine rope (marine as in sailboats, not US Armed Forces) that was rated 6000+ lbs breaking strength just to have a lighter flipline, worked OK, but with weather and wear, it lost a lot of its stiffness and I was back to my trusty steelcore after a dozen trees or so.

I also have a 1/2" rope lanyard that I use instead of my steelcore flipline in those tight spots treemandan is talking about. But if I could have only one, it would be my steelcore, because for flipping up on spurs, there is nothing else, but I think I said that already...

One other thing, get a steelcore with a swivel on the snap. Trust me.

RedlineIt


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 6, 2010)

1/2 flipline are the bomb , the only drawback is when they wear they will tear up your hands ,they will stop a saw dead in its tracks and I know this for a fact they are safer than any type of lanyard hands down and are easy to work one handed , and there are some that are as long as 12 ft. not that you'll probably ever use that much but at least ya have it ..


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## lone wolf (Jun 6, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> 1/2 flipline are the bomb , the only drawback is when they wear they will tear up your hands ,they will stop a saw dead in its tracks and I know this for a fact they are safer than any type of lanyard hands down and are easy to work one handed , and there are some that are as long as 12 ft. not that you'll probably ever use that much but at least ya have it ..





Please dont get the idea that you cant cut through and I know this for a fact!


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## tree md (Jun 6, 2010)

I cut into mine while doing a job last Winter. It didn't stop my saw but I could feel that I was cutting into it. I was cutting slow and didn't do a lot of damage to it. One thing is for sure, you will know if you hit it. the hi Vis orange fibers will go flying like feathers. It is still possible to cut through the thing pretty instantaneously with a wide open saw from the test vids I have seen. I just replaced mine when it became damaged. I don't want my hands to get eat up by the frayed cable and it would jam in my rope grab. They're not too expensive to replace anyway. 

A rope lanyard is mandatory to use if you are working close to electrical lines. Rope will be easier to work with in some situations but I just use my climbing line as a lanyard in those situations. I do have a few rope lanyards to choose from if need be though.


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## beowulf343 (Jun 6, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> 1/2 flipline are the bomb,they will stop a saw dead in its tracks and I know this for a fact..



This is blatantly wrong. Wirecores are cut-resistant, not cut-proof. They will stop a handsaw in its tracks, but most sharp saws will still cut them. In fact, one of our climbers is off work right now with a broken leg and three broken ribs after cutting his wirecore with a 200t. My 357 and 395 will go through them about as fast as they can go through a rope lanyard. Please don't promote bad climbing habits.


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## Sine Metu (Jun 6, 2010)

Thanks guys, this has been really helpful!...Sure i can see it not being cut proof, my mistake on word choice. Great thanks again all!


To TREEMANDAN...good call on Marines, My buddy enlisted this summer, and I plan on doing OCS training after I graduate college spring of '11. As for the devil picture his name is Ryan Martinie, bassist for the band Mudvayne...and the latin is the motto for my rugby team, it means "hit low, hit deep, without fear...Yea I can see how the combination of those would seem a little sketchy...


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## Tang (Jun 7, 2010)

The younger guys have to use a second safety when climbing. The rest of us still free climb. Most perfer to use the rope safety. Ive used the rope one and the steel core's before. The rope one is alot more relaxed and more natural to flip, if I may say. As far as cutting through it, wow. We were always taught to walk up in your belt, look where you cutting, it only takes a quick sec. A second that could cost you.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 11, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> This is blatantly wrong. Wirecores are cut-resistant, not cut-proof. They will stop a handsaw in its tracks, but most sharp saws will still cut them. In fact, one of our climbers is off work right now with a broken leg and three broken ribs after cutting his wirecore with a 200t. My 357 and 395 will go through them about as fast as they can go through a rope lanyard. Please don't promote bad climbing habits.



Listen I'm not saying climb a tree and cut your lanyard , that would be careless , and if your gonna cut yourself out of a tree , than guess what ya no business there in the first place , thats poor tree habits giving a dope a saw in a tree , and who cuts through one straight on, really ..... The lanyards are safe and resist saws well but of course there are always limitations ..And I'm pretty sure a tank can blast a hole in a armored car aswell, limitations thats all


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 11, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> Please dont get the idea that you cant cut through and I know this for a fact!



I've brushed mine at least a few times and knew that I did quickly but that was a side shot , how would you cut through one straight ? cutting between you and the tree that alone maybe the most unsafe thing that someone could do , under normal conditions they are extremely safe and I have been using them for a long time .... Daily I might add..


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## beowulf343 (Jun 19, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> I've brushed mine at least a few times and knew that I did quickly but that was a side shot , how would you cut through one straight ? cutting between you and the tree that alone maybe the most unsafe thing that someone could do , under normal conditions they are extremely safe and I have been using them for a long time .... Daily I might add..



You've "brushed" your lanyard "at least a few times" and this is not considered a "poor tree habit??" 
That right there is my problem with wirecores-i've nicked a lanyard once and it caused me to double check to make sure it never gets done again ever since. You nick a wirecore regularly and it's no big deal? 

This post caused me to to do an informal poll at our shop. We've got sixteen climbers, seven use wirecores everyday, the rest regular rope lanyards. Five of the wirecores were nicked, none of the rope lanyards had a nick. Of course you are going to assume the wirecores are older so i asked around the crews which climbers had nicked their lanyards this year. Not counting the guy who cut himself out of the tree, three wirecores had been nicked in the last couple months, the last time i could find a lanyard that had been nicked was back in february. How odd. 

Meh, i'm getting tired of beating a dead horse. To all new climbers, i guess it is now perfectly acceptable to nick your wirecore. When they come out with wirecore climbing ropes, all our problems will be solved.


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## ECRUPPRECHT (Jun 19, 2010)

they make steelcores way longer than 12 ft. also and a 12' lanyard wnt even go around a really big tree ive seen 18' up to 30' lanyard/steelcores


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## RedlineIt (Jun 19, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> You've "brushed" your lanyard "at least a few times" and this is not considered a "poor tree habit??"
> That right there is my problem with wirecores-i've nicked a lanyard once and it caused me to double check to make sure it never gets done again ever since. You nick a wirecore regularly and it's no big deal?
> 
> This post caused me to to do an informal poll at our shop. We've got sixteen climbers, seven use wirecores everyday, the rest regular rope lanyards. Five of the wirecores were nicked, none of the rope lanyards had a nick. Of course you are going to assume the wirecores are older so i asked around the crews which climbers had nicked their lanyards this year. Not counting the guy who cut himself out of the tree, three wirecores had been nicked in the last couple months, the last time i could find a lanyard that had been nicked was back in february. How odd.
> ...



beowulf,

If I nicked my steelcore, there'd be a fuzzy lump that would be hard to slide through my prussic/cam/grab. Can't have that, and I'd be embarrassed to show up with $2 worth of tape wrapped on a $150 lanyard.

And if the is the "wear" that treeclimber101 says will "tear up your hands" is caused by "grazing" his lanyard, I'm with you , dork has no place in a tree with a chainsaw.

But they are safer than a rope lanyard.

To say they are not, because the user feels more exposed is to say that automobile drivers would be safer if the airbag in the center of the steering wheel were replaced with a sharpened railroad spike aimed at their neck.

Tailgating would decrease, speeds would calm, everyone would cinch up their seatbelt, pay attention to traffic, no one would risk running a yellow. Driving in gerneral would likely become much safer than the airbagged world we have.

But every lapse, every fender bender would be an ambulance call or fatality.

It's an interesting thought experiment anyways...

Do safety guards, PPE, throttle locks, chain brakes, protocalls and best practices make us safer or make us complacent?

I know which camp I'm in...

RedlineIt


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## rwbinbc (Jun 19, 2010)

I like My 10' flip line, I don't have anything else right now. I use My climbing rope alot of times to pass y's and limbs. I feel the steel core is better than the home-made buck strap I started with. I will get another rope buckstrap, But it will be pretty long and with an ascender for ajusting the length. That way I'll have a thrid way to postion Myself, I dont feel "Good" when I'm on a 4" pine top and the flipline doesn't double down right.


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## Greener (Jun 27, 2010)

*Steel core is a no-brainer*

I use a 1/2 inch. To each his own but I used to use a rope flipline and there is no comparison. Since my buddy turned me on to the steel flip I can never go back. It is superior in terms of maneuvering the line up a tree and safety. Sure a full-throttle saw can go through it but it gives you more of a chance than a non-steel variety.


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## Treecutr (Jun 27, 2010)

I use a 12' steel core, love it, even on small trees, no issues with flipping it. I also have a rope laynard I bring up too, but definetly feel safer on steel core, not to say I don't feel safe on rope. my first sergeant in the Army use to do tree work, he accidently cut his rope laynard, fell 20', and lost his left nut on a fence, he never went up without a steel core again.That sold me on them. Mine's only 12', and have had a few trees that I could have used a l;onger one, but it's a good start, 1/2" is fine. ( IMO )


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## fishercat (Jun 27, 2010)

*1/2" steelcore all the way.*

the swivel snap is a must!


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