# The Worst Job in the World?



## StihlKiwi (Apr 11, 2012)

These guys seem to think long hours of hard work in dangerous conditions for minimal pay isn't that desirable.

The 10 Worst Jobs of 2012 | CareerCast.com

“We're still using paper and wood products all the time, but nowadays, kids would rather play video games instead of working hard and getting their hands dirty." 

Not exactly a promising outlook is it


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## lmbrman (Apr 11, 2012)

yea, saw that this am, just a little bummer and concerning as you mention.

good news is my kid is interested at age 8- never misses a chance to help me in the woods, be it measuring sticks for me or dragging brush, even tried the loader a few times, and others on here have shared similar stories about their kids, so i guess it is up to us :msp_wink:


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## forestryworks (Apr 11, 2012)

> "It's finding people who want to do it and work hard at it that is declining.”



I have a problem with that.

I am more than willing to get into the industry. But every logger or falling contractor I've talked to this year so far always asks, "how much experience do you have?"

And I tell them the truth; "Some timber falling experience and a lot of hazard tree falling experience."

"Well, you need more experience."

Yes, I do. But, I can't get experience if you don't hire me!


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## StihlKiwi (Apr 11, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> "Well, you need more experience."



Yea I think part of the issue is the old-timers out there who forget that they were inexperienced once as well


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## madhatte (Apr 11, 2012)

Both the top and bottom ten of that list are completely bogus. Disregard both as dreck and nonsense.


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> I have a problem with that.
> 
> I am more than willing to get into the industry. But every logger or falling contractor I've talked to this year so far always asks, "how much experience do you have?"
> 
> ...



The young fallers I've seen are working with guys who watch them carefully, and kind of sponsor (I can't think of another word) them....speak up for them. It's usually guys who have known each other, are family, or they're like family. 

A young man I know got to cut for a while with a well established faller. His dad arranged it. His dad was the one who got the logging job too. 

It's tough, but that's how it works around here.


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Yea I think part of the issue is the old-timers out there who forget that they were inexperienced once as well



Not necessarily. And not in every case. The main problem is the lack of steady work and the resultant lack of a dependable income. There are always more fallers than there are jobs.

If I need some help for a few days there are a dozen guys I can call who live within an hour of my place. Out of that dozen, all of whom are good fallers, I'm sure to find two or three at any given time who are looking for work. If I have a steady job, steady being a month or two long, my phone will start ringing with guys looking for work before the ink is dry on the contract.

A member here recently asked about working for me. I wish I could have hired him. He's got the basics down and I think he would have done a fine job for me. But why offer him work when I know darn well that he can't survive on what little work I have? 

The other outfits I know of, those that would pay him and not get him killed, have the same crews coming back year after year. Somebody has to die or retire before there are any good steady jobs.

Us "old-timers" haven't forgotten what it's like to get started in this business. And that's one of the reasons that we're usually darn careful about what we promise.


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 11, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Yea I think part of the issue is the old-timers out there who forget that they were inexperienced once as well



And they still want to do it the way it was done in the old day and don't think there are new and improved ways of doing things.


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## 2dogs (Apr 11, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> And they still want to do it the way it was done in the old day and don't think there are new and improved ways of doing things.



Dude you should watch where you step. We don't need that kind of stuff drug in here.


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> And they still want to do it the way it was done in the old day and don't think there are new and improved ways of doing things.



:monkey: Would somebody else please take this? I've done all the yelling I need to today.


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## redprospector (Apr 11, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> I have a problem with that.
> 
> I am more than willing to get into the industry. But every logger or falling contractor I've talked to this year so far always asks, "how much experience do you have?"
> 
> ...



Jameson,

It's rough when you're starting out, I know. 
Long long ago in a galaxy far......no wait, that's another story.
Many moons ago, I decided that I wanted to go to work for the mill here because it was the best thing going in these parts. I had done some thinning, and had cut firewood but had 0 experience in logging. I applied for a fallers position and was turned down cold. You know, the old; "Sorry kid, you just don't have the experience we're looking for". I was determined to work for this outfit so I met the crew at the convenience store every morning at 4:30 and tried to sell myself to the saw boss, and the cat boss. One morning after about a month of meeting them at 4:30 and never being late (as a matter of fact I was waiting on them to show up), I saw the cat boss talking to the saw boss, then they came over to me. Cat boss told me to have my crap together in the morning and he'd try me out on the landing, the pay would be $4.50 an hour. I went to work that next day bumping knots, and whatever else I was told to do. I made them a hand on the landing. Cat skinner never had to get off the cat at the landing, my saw was always sharp and never out of gas. Unlike the other "deckies " I didn't bring a novel to read while waiting on the cat, there was always something productive to do. They had raised me up to $8.00 an hour by the second full week I was there.
After about 3 months a falling position came open again, they gave me a shot at it. I nearly starved to death, but I survived the first month. That's when one of the "old timers" (about my age now) decided to take me under his wing before I killed myself or someone else. I feel like I owe him for everything I've got from this industry. 
Man, all that seems so long ago. 

I guess the moral to my story is: If you're persistant, and show good qualities you might get on. Even if it's pushing a broom in their shop at the mill, take it. Be the absolute best that you can be at what they put you doing. If they are worth their salt, they will notice, If not keep looking. It doesn't mater what you do, you have to start at the bottom, unless like Patty said and your dad knows someone.

Good luck out there.

Andy


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## forestryworks (Apr 11, 2012)

Gologit said:


> :monkey: Would somebody else please take this? I've done all the yelling I need to today.



Too bad he can't fully understand his signature...



> Tis better to remain quiet and let people think you're stupid than it is to speak and remove all doubt.


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 11, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Dude you should watch where you step. We don't need that kind of stuff drug in here.



I didn't mean anyone in here i mean OLD guys like my grandpa telling me i dont need all that junk on to climb a tree because he never wore it. Sorry i didn't mean for it to come out that way. And you guys aren't old you're seasoned vets that i have learned from while being here so don't skin me.


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## redprospector (Apr 11, 2012)

Gologit said:


> :monkey: Would somebody else please take this? I've done all the yelling I need to today.



Ok Bob, I got it.

Andy


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## redprospector (Apr 11, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> I didn't mean anyone in here i mean OLD guys like my grandpa telling me i dont need all that junk on to climb a tree because he never wore it. Sorry i didn't mean for it to come out that way.



Ok, I guess you're off the hook with me for now. I don't want to think about climbing anymore. But your grandpa's probably right, you probably don't need everything you climb with. 

Andy


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## Jacob J. (Apr 11, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> *The Worst Job in the World?*



I'll tell you all of you guys what the worst job in the world is...I promise, you don't even have a clue...


Worst Job in the World:

Cleaning the grease traps at Chinese restaurants.


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> I didn't mean anyone in here i mean OLD guys like my grandpa telling me i dont need all that junk on to climb a tree because he never wore it. Sorry i didn't mean for it to come out that way. And you guys aren't old you're seasoned vets that i have learned from while being here so don't skin me.



Okay, you're off the hook. So quit with the mush stuff.:msp_biggrin:


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## Rounder (Apr 11, 2012)

Want it bad enough, you'll get it. All of it. The good, the bad, the ugly.

Just pretend you're a chessie. Worked for me anyways............


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I'll tell you all of you guys what the worst job in the world is...I promise, you don't even have a clue...
> 
> 
> Worst Job in the World:
> ...



How about the guy that pumps out the portable toilets? Now _there's_ somebody that really wants a job.


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## Jacob J. (Apr 11, 2012)

Gologit said:


> How about the guy that pumps out the portable toilets? Now _there's_ somebody that really wants a job.



That's not such a bad job really, and the contractors that service the porta-johns in the big fire camps are making top dollar. 
The going rate for the truck is $101/hr and the operator gets $33/hr. Owner/operator makes a pretty penny by the time a summer is over. 

I worked for a guy when I was in high school cleaning the grease traps at local restaurants. I'm not talking the little "insinkerator" kind, but the 
industrial 20-60 gallon grease traps built into floors or basements of the largest kitchens. Dead rats, remains of slaughtered animals, sewage, 
and dentures were among the many lovely things I shoveled out of them by hand. We even found a glass eye in one.

Nothing makes me gag now, nothing.


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## madhatte (Apr 11, 2012)

When I was 18 or so, I worked for a time in a factory that made polyester fiber batting out of raw spun polyester. That, folks, was a truly rotten job. It was like baling hay in an Arctic parka.


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> That's not such a bad job really, and the contractors that service the porta-johns in the big fire camps are making top dollar.
> The going rate for the truck is $101/hr and the operator gets $33/hr. Owner/operator makes a pretty penny by the time a summer is over.
> 
> I worked for a guy when I was in high school cleaning the grease traps at local restaurants. I'm not talking the little "insinkerator" kind, but the
> ...



Okay, you win. Eccccch.


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 11, 2012)

A few years ago one of those trucks that hauls that grease flipped over on the freeway here and you could smell it for miles for a week and it took like 2 days to clean up the mess.


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## forestryworks (Apr 11, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> That's not such a bad job really, and the contractors that service the porta-johns in the big fire camps are making top dollar.
> The going rate for the truck is $101/hr and the operator gets $33/hr. Owner/operator makes a pretty penny by the time a summer is over.
> 
> I worked for a guy when I was in high school cleaning the grease traps at local restaurants. I'm not talking the little "insinkerator" kind, but the
> ...



I worked at a hospital for several years. Had to help out with that several times. That is by far the most foul smelling stuff in the world.


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> That's not such a bad job really, and the contractors that service the porta-johns in the big fire camps are making top dollar.
> The going rate for the truck is $101/hr and the operator gets $33/hr. Owner/operator makes a pretty penny by the time a summer is over.



Is it in their contracts that they have to pump during meal times when the wind is blowing the smell towards the eating area? Because that is what seems to happen. :msp_sad:


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 11, 2012)

slowp said:


> Is it in their contracts that they have to pump during meal times when the wind is blowing the smell towards the eating area? Because that is what seems to happen. :msp_sad:



Like the smoke follows you around the fire


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## 2dogs (Apr 12, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> I didn't mean anyone in here i mean OLD guys like my grandpa telling me i dont need all that junk on to climb a tree because he never wore it. Sorry i didn't mean for it to come out that way. And you guys aren't old you're seasoned vets that i have learned from while being here so don't skin me.



Ok we're cool then.


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## StihlKiwi (Apr 12, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> I worked at a hospital for several years. Had to help out with that several times. That is by far the most foul smelling stuff in the world.



Hard to imagine anything worse than taking the lid of an offal hole in the middle of summer, but I'm happy to take your word for it.


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## Joe46 (Apr 12, 2012)

slowp said:


> Is it in their contracts that they have to pump during meal times when the wind is blowing the smell towards the eating area? Because that is what seems to happen. :msp_sad:



Not in their contract. It's how they get their giggles.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 12, 2012)

[SUB][/SUB]


forestryworks said:


> I have a problem with that.
> 
> I am more than willing to get into the industry. But every logger or falling contractor I've talked to this year so far always asks, "how much experience do you have?"
> 
> ...



. Thats why you need to get on settin chockers under a tower .


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## Samlock (Apr 12, 2012)

When I was a student I worked now and then as a stevedore on the docks. At the time you just had to be early on the harbor main gate and with a little bit of luck the foreman picked you up to work for a day. Loading and unloading was not a bad job at all. But I saw there people who most definitely had the worst position of them all. They were called the "Mau-Mau-Men". Their job was to crawl into the hull, the space between double bottom ship's two bottoms. They cleaned the dungeon up, sandblowed the rust off and sprayed a new set of poison paint. There's no power on earth that could get me into a place like that alive.

Mau-Mau-Men were quite impressive looking Mugwumps themselves too. I guess they had to be more scary than all the nameless creatures they might meet inside the ship bottom. Not a bit of charming petit bourgeois air around them. They appeared on the docks with a lunatic girlfriend, put on a sealed suit, threw up and climbed in. After they finished the job and got paid, they disappeared God knows where, and didn't come back before they had spent their very last penny on beverage and gear.


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## forestryworks (Apr 12, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> [SUB][/SUB]
> 
> . Thats why you need to get on settin chockers under a tower .



Ain't had much luck with that either. 

Most of the ones I've called are full up or they don't answer/callback.

And then there's gettin' to any jobs. I may just be better off for this season stocking eggs in a grocery store and saving for next season.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 12, 2012)

Jameson; I'm telling you the truth , there isn't a man in the world that is gonna Give you your first GOOD cutting job . You have to earn the right to work your guts out in the most dangerous profession in America and Canada . Are u married , got kids ? If not u can tramp around . . Get in tower loggin country.

I started in the brush Pre Commercial Tree thinning out of Ketchikan , Already had a sub contract when I got out of the Coast Guard . 
One of the men in the church I was attending was one of the owners of a big loggin company ..
I worked my butt off thinning and went broke . But I hung around fallers when I was in town . Bought a set of climbing gear , learned how to climb ( Thank God for Lies Logs and Loggers )
Reid Timber was starting up a new side . My 1st morning waiting for the crummy I saw them setting up strike picket signs at the LP Spruce mill across the street . That was the last day that mill worked . .

It took me 6 years to get broke in cutting . But with God's help I did . 

As an old faller I worked with in Tolstoy Bay would say , you just gotta keep leanin into er !


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## tramp bushler (Apr 12, 2012)

Who wad it ? Van Morrison , had the song ( Ya know it don't come easy )


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## RandyMac (Apr 12, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Jameson; I'm telling you the truth , there isn't a man in the world that is gonna Give you your first GOOD cutting job . You have to earn the right to work your guts out in the most dangerous profession in America and Canada . Are u married , got kids ? If not u can tramp around . . Get in tower loggin country.
> !



There is always the exception that proves the rule, my first logging job was as a faller.
Family connections and maybe a bottle of whiskey or two, were involved.


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## q-tip jr (Apr 12, 2012)

thinking that was Ringo Starr - not Van Morrison


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## Humptulips (Apr 13, 2012)

Gologit said:


> How about the guy that pumps out the portable toilets? Now _there's_ somebody that really wants a job.



OK, Time for a funny story.

A guy I work for occasionally does a little logging, construction and puts in and repairs septic systems.
This one time we got a call at a shake mill. They had backed something onto the septic tank and partially collapsed the lid. He called the pumper truck to come and pump the septic tank. We lifted the lid and they proceeded to pump it out except there was a big ball of stuff to big to suck up in the tank.Pretty rank about then and I'm trying to keep my distance but the guy on the truck volunteers to jump down in the tank and break this ball up with a shovel. He did have waders.
My boss notices the guy doesn't have gloves and offers him his.
Pumper guy says "No thank you, those rubber gloves make your hands stink.":fart:


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## Gologit (Apr 13, 2012)

How about hauling turkeys? Live turkeys. I did that one year just before Thanksgiving.

We'd go out to the turkey ranches at night, herd the turkeys into holding pens, and throw them into cages stacked up on flat bed trailers.

Ever try to herd a turkey? And when you grab one and go to throw it way up over your head into a cage they automatically void themselves of every body fluid and substance they own. The boss told us to bring heavy gloves, rain gear...and big wide brim hats. That was good advice.

I did that for a month until all the turkeys were hauled. We had a ham for Thanksgiving dinner...at my request.


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## paccity (Apr 13, 2012)

did a similar thing as a kid , called it chicken pickin . a nite or two we would load up in a buss go out to the big barns grab two or three by the leggs per hand. you get to hate the damn things. made 25 to30 bucks fore a few hours work. which for a teenager at that time was good money.


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## Gologit (Apr 13, 2012)

paccity said:


> did a similar thing as a kid , called it chicken pickin . a nite or two we would load up in a buss go out to the big barns grab two or three by the leggs per hand. you get to hate the damn things. made 25 to30 bucks fore a few hours work. which for a teenager at that time was good money.



Yup. We'd been weathered out of the woods early that year and I had kids to feed. They paid us cash and the money was really good for that time, 1970 or so. LOL...half the crew were loggers and I still see a couple of the guys around. The turkey hauling venture always gets talked about. It's funny now. Wasn't too funny then.


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## Sport Faller (Apr 13, 2012)

I'd have to say that working at the slaughter house was my worst job. We got our pork cuts in huge, 1800 lb. containers, by the time we cut up most of it there was about 2 feet of blood in the bottom of the container. Being the new guy I was the designated "fisherman" which meant that I was tipped over at the waist, feet in the air, and damn near shoulder deep in blood trolling around for any leftover cuts with a meathook


#### that place


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## 056 kid (Apr 13, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> I have a problem with that.
> 
> I am more than willing to get into the industry. But every logger or falling contractor I've talked to this year so far always asks, "how much experience do you have?"
> 
> ...



Its called sport falling. That or embellish the truth a tad about your experience level. One way or another you'll get there.


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## hammerlogging (Apr 13, 2012)

but if you're going to stack eggs, I bet you'd have a better chance of ending up doing something logging oriented if you were stacking eggs in timber country.

Me too, first logging job was falling, just got lucky.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 16, 2012)

056 kid said:


> Its called sport falling. That or embellish the truth a tad about your experience level. One way or another you'll get there.



.
I knew guys who did that most got run off the first day . Some the first week few that lied about their experience made it . Some of them are dead now . Just something about skipping necessary steps that doesn't work . 

Its not about just bein a faller . Its about being a good faller . 

Slashers and wood butchers are easy to find . Good hands 
Whats to say if you lie about your experience you won't lie about your scale . Integrity is more important than just getting a job .


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## slowp (Apr 16, 2012)

hammerlogging said:


> but if you're going to stack eggs, I bet you'd have a better chance of ending up doing something logging oriented if you were stacking eggs in timber country.
> 
> Me too, first logging job was falling, just got lucky.



There's some egg places around. Winlock? Toledo? One of those places has an egg festival. They are within timber country. I think they lay eggs in Rochester too. That's almost across the highway from the Weyco nursery.


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## Joe46 (Apr 16, 2012)

Winlock "used" to be known as the egg capital of the world. I use to candle eggs as a kid when we'd visit friends there.


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## forestryworks (Apr 16, 2012)

Summer job competition is just fierce anymore. I applied for 5 state or fed jobs as a forest tech or forest aide. Usually applied for a lower pay level job so I was sure I would qualify. Didn't get any offers. Missed the deadline on a lot of others, or just didn't see the announcements; some aren't that easy to find online. You'd think they would do a better job of advertising their STEP jobs. 

What I'd like to do this summer is at least take a trip and meet a few folks face to face. Find someone to tag along with a few days, pack wedges and jugs around, knock wedges.

More than likely though I'll end up in a grocery store for the summer, saving money for next season.


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## 056 kid (Apr 17, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> I knew guys who did that most got run off the first day . Some the first week few that lied about their experience made it . Some of them are dead now . Just something about skipping necessary steps that doesn't work .
> 
> Its not about just bein a faller . Its about being a good faller .
> ...



If you dream about it day and night you will do anything to get it, you will prepare yourself mentally for more than whatever your wildest dreams can conjure. If you fail miserably and get run off fine. If you feel the vibes and things get good on you, then all right. They can go right ahead and lie about their scale, they wont have a job long will they. Stepping up and putting yourself in the game is what it is all about.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 17, 2012)

All I ever wanted to do was cut timber . But I wasn't willing to start off on the wrong foot . 
I'm a better cutter because of it . And I'm still cutting not sleepin under a head stone in the Craig cemetary .


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## slowp (Apr 17, 2012)

If Forestryworks wants to cut out here, working in the rigging first would be beneficial. That way he'd learn about the lay needed to facilitate yarding the logs, and hear the cussing about fallers. It isn't just getting trees on the ground fast as most of you already know.


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## coastalfaller (Apr 17, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> I knew guys who did that most got run off the first day . Some the first week few that lied about their experience made it . Some of them are dead now . Just something about skipping necessary steps that doesn't work .
> 
> Its not about just bein a faller . Its about being a good faller .
> ...



Yep, I agree. If a guy is upfront about his experience or is green as grass, that's OK, I don't mind training if the particular job allows it. It's when a guy lies about his experience. It just doesn't work. For anyone. Himself, me, his falling partner or his family. And, you're right, they don't last.


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## forestryworks (Apr 17, 2012)

slowp said:


> If Forestryworks wants to cut out here, working in the rigging first would be beneficial. That way he'd learn about the lay needed to facilitate yarding the logs, and hear the cussing about fallers. It isn't just getting trees on the ground fast as most of you already know.



Gonna give that a few more shots. The other problem is finding out of state housing that won't eat my wages. I need to make money for my last semester (fall) in school, not make just enough to drive up there, live and eat, and drive back and have $5 in my pocket 



coastalfaller said:


> Yep, I agree. If a guy is upfront about his experience or is green as grass, that's OK, I don't mind training if the particular job allows it. It's when a guy lies about his experience. It just doesn't work. For anyone. Himself, me, his falling partner or his family. And, you're right, they don't last.



I think I've been too humble. There's a fine line sometimes between selling yourself and being on the edge of embellishment.

The other thing is, summer is the busy part of the logging season. I'm sure somebody somewhere will be needing a faller or a rigging rat. That was part of last night's conversation with a veteran faller.


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## paccity (Apr 17, 2012)

being there in person to shake there hand and look them in the eye when introducing yourself for a job goes a long way. just the way i've always done it , work's most of the time. the old first impression thing. don't give up.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 17, 2012)

I see now . 

Workin in the brush and wanting garenteed money just don't go together . 

Bein a college edjucate and being a timber faller are not synonemous . 
Never seen it yet . 

Something I agree with 56 about . "If fallin timber is All you can think about day and night. You will do anything necessary to do it and become it . " I embellished a little . I draw the line at being ficticous.

I didn't care about the money just wanted to be a timber beast . And I paid the price . . But ,
I made er .! 

Thats the problem with the virtual world . It's not real . And ya don't have sweat runnin down .


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## redprospector (Apr 18, 2012)

Well, I hate to be hard on here. But sometimes that's the only way.

A lie is a lie, dosen't matter what fancy name you want to give it. An embelishment is nothing more or less than a lie.
A man that will lie to you will steal from you.
That's one of our biggest problems today. We have lost our integrety, and are willing to lie to get what we want.
I'd rather train a greenhorn any day than have a liar in the same county.

Andy


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## redprospector (Apr 18, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> Gonna give that a few more shots. The other problem is finding out of state housing that won't eat my wages. I need to make money for my last semester (fall) in school, not make just enough to drive up there, live and eat, and drive back and have $5 in my pocket
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jameson,
Logging is like any other field in the fact that when you first start out you'll think you're going to starve before you figure out how to make money at it. If you're working by the hour your experience will show and you'll be paid accordingly. If you're falling by the bushel, or by the count things will be mighty slim until you learn to fall to the lead fast enough to make money for you, and who you're working for. 
I'm sure things have changed in the last 25 or 30 years, but right now you're working for experience. Money will come in time.
Get out there and sell yourself, but keep your integrity intact.

Andy


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## Gologit (Apr 18, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I see now .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sometimes they go together. I know quite a few guys who have some college education and it doesn't seem to hurt their cutting any. 

One guy I've worked with quite a bit, and who is one of the best fallers I've seen, has a masters degree in sociology. We don't hold it against him, though.


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## Gologit (Apr 18, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Jameson,
> Logging is like any other field in the fact that when you first start out you'll think you're going to starve before you figure out how to make money at it. If you're working by the hour your experience will show and you'll be paid accordingly. If you're falling by the bushel, or by the count things will be mighty slim until you learn to fall to the lead fast enough to make money for you, and who you're working for.
> I'm sure things have changed in the last 25 or 30 years, but right now you're working for experience. Money will come in time.
> Get out there and sell yourself, but keep your integrity intact.
> ...



Well said.


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## slowp (Apr 18, 2012)

Rumor had it that there was a former opera singer from NEW YORK CITY cutting during the 1980s out here.
Supposedly, he got fed up with the pressures of opera and arrived here to get away. I never could confirm this story, there were people falling timber all over the place. 

We do have a guy who moonlights as a preacher. I've never heard him cuss. His brother, who doesn't live here anymore--he went to Alaska, would sing while falling. He could be heard above the saw noise sometimes. 

Oh, if you do get a job in the rigging, and they decide to give you a saw, don't slice your chaps! I saw a young guy get de-sawed and sent back down the hill to the rigging when the yarder engineer and hooktender both saw the fresh cut in the chaps.


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## Jacob J. (Apr 18, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Sometimes they go together. I know quite a few guys who have some college education and it doesn't seem to hurt their cutting any.
> 
> One guy I've worked with quite a bit, and who is one of the best fallers I've seen, has a masters degree in sociology. We don't hold it against him, though.



I worked with a falling contractor for years who has a forestry degree and was a professional forester first for the Forest Service before
he quit to become a log cutter. He didn't want to get "trapped" in a forester position. He liked the freedom of being a contractor and 
cutting logs. I've also known log cutters who got their degrees while cutting logs and then became professional foresters for the 
Forest Service. I went to school while I was cutting logs and got two-year general education degree so I could enter a natural resources 
program. So it works both ways. D. Doug Dent got a master's degree while cutting for Zellerbach. 

Jameson- there's several outfits north of me looking for rigging hands. Have you been calling outfits out here lately? There was a company
in Sweethome that was needing choker pullers and was starting guys out at $14-15/hour, which is pretty good for Sweethome. There's a 
ton of cheap housing around there.


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## forestryworks (Apr 18, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I worked with a falling contractor for years who has a forestry degree and was a professional forester first for the Forest Service before
> he quit to become a log cutter. He didn't want to get "trapped" in a forester position. He liked the freedom of being a contractor and
> cutting logs. I've also known log cutters who got their degrees while cutting logs and then became professional foresters for the
> Forest Service. I went to school while I was cutting logs and got two-year general education degree so I could enter a natural resources
> ...



J- Thanks for the heads up!


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## hammerlogging (Apr 18, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I worked with a falling contractor for years who has a forestry degree and was a professional forester first for the Forest Service before
> he quit to become a log cutter. He didn't want to get "trapped" in a forester position. He liked the freedom of being a contractor and
> cutting logs. I've also known log cutters who got their degrees while cutting logs and then became professional foresters for the
> Forest Service. I went to school while I was cutting logs and got two-year general education degree so I could enter a natural resources
> ...



While having been accused of using five and ten dollar college words, I will in reply congratulate some co-workers for multil syllable words, its a healthy back and forth. My old bud red and I were bucking a #### ton o helicopter logs one day, he put a dip in, I said "goddam red, you put a ####in dip in and your conjugation goes to ####!" it was true.

For me its not about education so much as intelligence- working with someone who gets the big picture, can problem solve, and anticipate is wonderful


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## slowp (Apr 18, 2012)

Following--I was always following! a hooktender who went on to lecture about "embracing the weather" during a nasty, windy storm. Remember...to work in the woods, every day, in all weather, you must Embrace the Weather.

Of course, you may cuss while doing so.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 18, 2012)

I used to teach the guys in the crummy a fancy word a week . Riggin rats said I sounded more like a lawyer than a logger . :msp_confused:
But the fact is most people need liesure time to have creative thoughts . 
Reason most other people think loggers are stupid . Their just too tired to think . 

On of the very best and fastest and strongest fallers I' ve ever met would cut 80 bushel a day and read a 250 page novel at night . When he check scaled he would take a fallers hat . Glance at the scalae . Hand it back and in a day or 3 would check it . And he would check 25 or more numbers . 
He would bushel for 2 or 3 days then do his scale in the crummy on the way home , while driving . The first guy to make a wise crack about thumbing he would make check scale him the next day . @
He had taught himself to have an idetic memory . He had LOTS of hundred bushel days ..


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## tramp bushler (Apr 18, 2012)

That guy was at least twice the man that I am maybe 3 times .
I have had the honor of working for 3 different men who would consistantly cut 2 strips to other above average cutters 1 . 
Funny thing about all of them . They didn't do any drugs . And they did the job completely . Not air scalein or tree lengthin . Every buck that was supposed to be done was done . 
All 3 had thier own cuttin companies employing up to 20 bushlers .


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## Humptulips (Apr 18, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I used to teach the guys in the crummy a fancy word a week . Riggin rats said I sounded more like a lawyer than a logger . :msp_confused:
> But the fact is most people need liesure time to have creative thoughts .
> Reason most other people think loggers are stupid . Their just too tired to think .



When I was staying in camp I used to write poetry. So damn boring I had the time to kill and nothing else to do. Never been able to do it since. Too many distractions. We used to do trivia quizes to kill time. I would read a book a night 'till I got things read out in camp.
Stayed in camp once for 6 1/2 months without going to town and mostly working 7 days a week.
I think I was pretty hard to deal with. Got pretty grumpy.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 19, 2012)

Thays why I'm a Tramp . Tho I knew lots of guys who only knew loggers , I knew lots of non loggers . 
When I had stood all I could stand and I just couldn't stand anymore . I'de be down the road .
Dealing with people was not my strong suit . Esspecially riggin men . I guess thats why I didn't get on the iron . Kind of a cut off my nose to spite my face thing . It wasn't until I got on cutting that I would make it a whole season for one outfit . The outer factor with tramping was units getting shut down because they had an injunction filed against them . One time in Coffman that really stands out . 5 or 6 of us . 1 crummy full had finished up and moved . We packed in to our new strips , and were litterly just starting our saws . Some guys hadn't even gotten to the bottom of the unit when the bullbuck or the boss came running down yellin don't cut any trees . Stop stop .
Which was pretty wierd . Usually it was the other way around . So we all packed out , went to the bunkhouse.
It was a pretty sucky deal . Enviros fileing lawsuits in s.f. shut us down in Alaska . There were already more home gaurds to do the needed cutting . Pack everything , get your check and head to the float .


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## redprospector (Apr 19, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Sometimes they go together. I know quite a few guys who have some college education and it doesn't seem to hurt their cutting any.
> 
> One guy I've worked with quite a bit, and who is one of the best fallers I've seen, has a masters degree in sociology. We don't hold it against him, though.



I worked with a guy that had been a VP in some big bank back east somewhere. He was a good faller, hard to keep up with. One day he just up and quit, said he was going back to banking. 

Andy


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## Humptulips (Apr 19, 2012)

Tramp,
That one season I put up with a lot and stuck it out longer then I wanted to because I was getting about $4/hr over what I could get anywhere else. Amazing what greed will do to you.
One thing I have a lot of good stories from the time. Didn't see to good then.
Would you believe my first day of work was on January 1st. We actually worked or tried to in shoulder deep snow. Ah, the good old days.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gologit (Apr 19, 2012)

redprospector said:


> I worked with a guy that had been a VP in some big bank back east somewhere. He was a good faller, hard to keep up with. One day he just up and quit, said he was going back to banking.
> 
> Andy



Logging is often a refuge for people. A few years back we hired a guy to drive water truck. He had a little camp trailer and lived in the woods, only going to town when he had to. Never had any company that we saw. But, he was a good worker, quiet and dependable, and got along with everybody. Even the log truck drivers liked him.

Toward the end of the season we got a phone call from somebody looking for him...a local hospital. Turns out he was a Doctor, an actual MD. I called the hospital back and double checked. He was, or had been, the head of the Trauma Department. They don't hand those jobs out to just anybody.

I gave him the message and asked, because I darn well wanted to know, "why didn't you tell us you were a Doctor?"

He said "If I told you I was a Doctor you would have treated me like a Doctor. I needed a break from all that...I just wanted to be an ordinary person for awhile. I wanted people to relate to me for _who_ I was, not _what_ I was. And besides, he laughed, you wouldn't have hired me."

He made the end of the season and drew his pay. Last I heard he was working in another ER in the Sacramento area. If he ever needs to escape again I'll be glad to have him


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## forestryworks (Apr 19, 2012)

I need to escape from Far West Texas :hmm3grin2orange:


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## RandyMac (Apr 19, 2012)

The worst job in the world is looking for work.


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## 056 kid (Apr 19, 2012)

That would definitely be a step in the right direction. .


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## redprospector (Apr 20, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> I need to escape from Far West Texas :hmm3grin2orange:



I heard that if you ever wear out a pair of shoes in West Texas that you'll never leave.

You won't be able to afford to buy another pair to walk out with.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 20, 2012)

Hey Hump ; when you were on Hecata did u find any sink holes ?? 

Randy . You got er there . I got half my iron home today and have already started calling around . Lookin for construction work if its here near home . I'de really rather either work in the brush or go to Prudhoe . . But it would be nice to be home for a summer .


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## Humptulips (Apr 20, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Hump ; when you were on Hecata did u find any sink holes ??
> 
> Randy . You got er there . I got half my iron home today and have already started calling around . Lookin for construction work if its here near home . I'de really rather either work in the brush or go to Prudhoe . . But it would be nice to be home for a summer .



A couple of small holes but nothing you couldn't have climbed out of. A couple of pretty good sized creeks that disapear into the ground there.
One funny formation that tested my hangup fighting skills. We downhill logged a hill that was exactly like a vlocano in shape, crater and everything. There was a rock rim with about a 200 foot across hole in the top. Fallers fell everything into it and there was some good sized spruce on that rim. We logged all the way around that hill from three different landings but we wrestled the logs out of that hole all one way.
Have to say some of the toughest logging shows I ever worked on were in AK.


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## bitzer (Apr 20, 2012)

####ing Lumberjack! I would guess the outlook for lumberjacks would be grim. They started seeing the end of their era around the time steam power started to hit big. Christ. I like how they pick a super clean major douchebag holding a homeowner Stihl for the picture. ####ing lumberjack! 

Jameson, I know this is not the arena you are looking for and our hills and trees are not as long, but I see this kind of stuff all the time. Adds in newspapers and magazines looking for cutters, talking to mills and foresters that need crews, etc. We are actually running out of loggers here if you can believe it. I thought about calling them for the hell of it just to see what they are all about, but I have more local work than I can shake a stick at. 


EXPERIENCED chainsaw cutters and machine operators needed

wanted: forestry and processor crews


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## tramp bushler (Apr 20, 2012)

Imo . If they don't tell you up front what you will be making then it may not be much . .

A big reason no one wants to work in the brush is there isn't much money in it . 

Bein a bushler is all about the money . Pay guys 500$ a day for 6 1/2 hours on the saw , provide the crummy , workers comp and gas+ oil and you can pick your crew from who is knocking on your door . . 
Heck even for 250$ a day you could have a very good crew . If you had mandatory hair folical drug testing you would have a crew that didn't cost much in comp.


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## Gologit (Apr 21, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Imo . If they don't tell you up front what you will be making then it may not be much . .
> 
> A big reason no one wants to work in the brush is there isn't much money in it .
> 
> ...



Yup. Workman's comp is a major expense. That's one of the reasons, besides productivity, that there's so much mechanical harvesting now. If the ground is gentle enough and the wood isn't too big you usually won't see _anybody_ working on the ground. Nobody.


A lot of the stuff I do now is on steep ground with wood too big for the feller bunchers to handle. When that's cut I'm done. It's kind of nice, in a way, not to be cutting a bunch of dog hair but it makes for a lot of moving around if a guy wants steady work.

And it makes it darn hard for a new guy to get started and make a living.


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