# Making money with a portable sawmill



## 4x4American

Howdy
wondering if there's much money in the sawmilling business? What would be the best ways to make money with a wood mizer portable mill? Is it possible to achieve a steady and comfortable income sawmilling?
Any advice or ideas are welcomed and appreciated
Thanks! 
Doug


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## Dave Boyt

I wouldn't know whether it is possible to make money with a WoodMizer... I run a Norwood portable sawmill. As with any business, a lot of people fail or succeed with small sawmills for a variety of reasons. If you start out cash-poor and have to make payments on equipment, chances are exceedingly slim. If you can start out with the equipment paid for AND have a 2 year savings account (or an understanding spouse with a good job), you've got a good start. A couple of suggestions:
Get good, reliable equipment that can grow with your business.
When you budget equipment, remember support equipment... chain saws, loader, flatbed truck & trailer, cant hooks...
Take care of your equipment
Stay out of mass markets (like pallets)
Focus on a niche that suits you and your equipment
Be open to new ideas and markets (such as custom woodworkers)
Look for ways to expand your service (custom drying & planing, for example)
Line up a reliable source of logs and keep on good terms with area loggers
If a job won't cover your expenses (including paying yourself), don't take it
Keep track of your income and expenses
Let your friends on the forum know how you're getting along


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## 4x4American

well thank ya very much for taking the time to write all that out. sure do preciate it. how do ya like the norwood?


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## Dave Boyt

It's a great little sawmill, and suits the kind of cutting I do quite well. The frame is good and solid. I've put on logs easily over 2,000 pounds (35" dia by 10' long) and it does fine. Of all the mills I looked at, it has the most flexible clamping system, which lets me cut oddball pieces like walnut crotches and roots, and also lets me cut short logs, 4' long without special jigs or hold-downs. All components, except the engine, are from the U.S. or Canada. It has hydraulic options, but right now, I'm running it as a manual mill. I towed it over 400 miles (round trip) to mill the sycamore logs in this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/old-sycamore.247515/ . No, I don't get paid a commission. I just like the sawmill.


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## 4x4American

I see that norwood has many after purchase add on options. so how's their after the sale customer service?


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## Dave Boyt

I haven't needed much support, but they've been good. When you do call, a real person answers, and I've never had to wait longer than 15-20 seconds to get tech support. He was friendly, professional, and told me to be sure to call him back if I had any other questions. When I ordered blades, they were sent out the same day. Norwood is based in Buffalo, NY. You don't have to be an owner to get onto their forum. That's a good place to see what users think, and a lot of people log on and ask questions before they buy the mill.


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## 4x4American

awesome. well thanks for your help!


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## Sagetown

Here's Dave demonstrating his machine. Does a fantastic job. 





Had a neighbor once that started up a small sawmill business. Had his own trees, but as they became harder to get to, he just couldn't produce enough material to keep customers.


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## Dave Boyt

Sagetown, thanks for posting. I remember that one. Sorta warm that day, with lots of chain saws!


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## Sagetown

You're Welcome Dave. Hedgerow kept you busy that morning.


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## Dave Boyt

Nice to see pictures of people wearing short sleeves and no snow on the ground. Where's the next GTG (PM me, if you know)? Regards


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## hamish

Best part about owning a sawmill is the people you meet.


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## 4x4American

Is there anyone here in the Hudson Valley that has a portable sawmill that would let me come out and see it in action?


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## Dave Boyt

> Best part about owning a sawmill is the people you meet.


+1! Lots of good folks here on the forum, too. One thing you'll find is that we all have a common interest, and while there is a log of good-natured ribbing, we're all still learning and anxious to share our successes and failures. All that matters is that you make (or want to make) sawdust!

As far as visiting a mill, I know that Norwood has a network of owners (I'm part of it) that are willing to demonstrate their mill. Give them a call, or PM me. You're welcome to come visit me in Missouri. Also lots of Youtube videos out there.


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## 4x4American

I appreciate the offer, although MO is kinda a haul for me. I called up a guy with a woodmizer who saws and cuts up poultry for a living over in VT, i asked if I could come out and work for him for room and board for a week or so. He liked the idea but has a full house. 7 kids, a wife, dogs, cats, chickens, beef cattle, etc. and doesnt need help but he said I could go out and watch it in action. He's 5 hours away, I'd fancy someone closer than that.


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## 4x4American

Hey what kinda insurance do you need to do business? And is the mill insured?


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## STLfirewood

4x4American said:


> Howdy
> wondering if there's much money in the sawmilling business? What would be the best ways to make money with a wood mizer portable mill? Is it possible to achieve a steady and comfortable income sawmilling?
> Any advice or ideas are welcomed and appreciated
> Thanks!
> Doug



I saw quite a bit on my LT15. I sell cribbing to a pipe company. It's not a ton of cash but it makes a difference. Sawing for production on a manual mill is a lot of work. I've cut over 1k board feet in a day by myself. The only reason I sell the cribbing is because I have a very good market for the slab wood . I actually get more for the slab wood then the cribbing. It would be tough to make a full living on just the mill. I'm going to be getting an LT40 this spring. I've found more markets that pay well but I can't keep up. Find a nitch market they pay the best. Don't try to cut ties and pallet lumber. You'll never compete with the high production places.


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## Dave Boyt

> Hey what kinda insurance do you need to do business? And is the mill insured?



I went with these guys. They have a special program for small sawmills. Unfortunately, it is only on the mill itself. It does not cover significant liability coverage.

http://www.mai-ins.com/ins_bandsaw.html


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## STLfirewood

STLfirewood said:


> I saw quite a bit on my LT15. I sell cribbing to a pipe company. It's not a ton of cash b
> ut it makes a difference. Sawing for production on a manual mill is a lot of work. I've cut over 1k board feet in a day by myself. The only reason I sell the cribbing is because I have a very good market for the slab wood . I actually get more for the slab wood then the cribbing. It would be tough to make a full living on just the mill. I'm going to be getting an LT40 this spring. I've found more markets that pay well but I can't keep up. Find a nitch market they pay the best. Don't try to cut ties and pallet lumber. You'll never compete with the high production places.



Here is a pic of what I'm cutting.


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## Dave Boyt

1k bd ft on a manual mill must keep you in pretty good shape! Looks cold over on your side of the state, too. How do you like that tracked John Deere? Do you use the tracks year 'round?


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## STLfirewood

You know you've worked that day. You need good size logs to make it easier. I love the Deere I have. Put 900 hours on it with only a bad sensor stopping me. I always have the tracks on it. The weather changes to much around here to take them on and off. It I had a more aggressive tread on the tires I would take them off more.


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## Sawyer Rob

I had a set of tracks like that, every time i turned, they tore up the ground worse than my dozer does... I didn't like that around my mill, and as that's what i bought it for, the whole thing got replaced with a tractor. I'm sure they are great for some folks, but not for me.

SR


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## 4x4American

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone! keep it coming!


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## Dave Boyt

How about a little info on your background? Much experience with chain saws, lumber, or mechanic skills? Any support equipment (tractor, truck, chain saws, etc.)? Are you in fair physical condition? How does family feel about it? Do you have financial reserves to get you through the start-up period? Do you have your act together in keeping good records to satisfy the bean counters? It takes a lot more than a sawmill and a few logs to run a sawmill business.


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## hamish

If you want a mill............well get a mill. Is it possible to make money with a mill, of course it is. Yet most fail to make money. A sound business plan, local market research, and quality of goods and services is essential. In my area a 10 minute drive in any direction, will have at least 10 portable mills in that area, its saturated with mills. Some are strictly for own use, others are for hire and some are commercial. Everybody makes money from milling jut some more than others.


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## hunthawkdog

hamish said:


> If you want a mill............well get a mill. Is it possible to make money with a mill, of course it is. Yet most fail to make money. A sound business plan, local market research, and quality of goods and services is essential. In my area a 10 minute drive in any direction, will have at least 10 portable mills in that area, its saturated with mills. Some are strictly for own use, others are for hire and some are commercial. Everybody makes money from milling jut some more than others.


That's the way it is around here (se iowa) plus a lot of Amish mills, they cut the pallet wood y'all say stay away from I know when I've been at their mills they all say they aim for a semi load a week of pallet lumber. I always wondered what a semi load was worth I asked just haven't got a straightforward answer. Some guys around here that have woodmizers probably don't put many hour's on them I think the going rate is about $65 an hour. 
Anyone know rates on a semi load of pallet lumber ? I know 2 guy s can cut a load in a week. 

Sent from my LG-US780 using Tapatalk


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## 4x4American

Thats right


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## 4x4American

My father and I have always wanted to start a family business. We just never knew what. Since I've brought up this idea about 2 years ago he's been interested. My mother and grandmother also would like to be involved. My mother is good with business and math stuff. She was a buyer for a big company for a long time, and now she teaches math at a catholic school. She also tutors math. My father works a desk job and is sick of it. Wants a breath of fresh air.


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## hamish

What are you waiting for? Get a mill at get at it!


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## STLfirewood

Here is a little advice. If you can afford it skip the manual mill and get a LT40 or something like that. There are a lot of used ones out there. I missed one around here that went for 9k. Most are 12-20k. If things don't work out you can resell the pretty easy.

Ok now here are some thoughts on markets.

Pallets. You can make good money building pallets. Just not the pallets that are mass produced with machines. There are companies that buy custom pallets. These pallets pay well. 

Wood workers. These guys can be a pain in the butt. They knit pick everything and take a lot of time to choose their material. If you choose to sell to this market choose one day a week or every two weeks wood workers can come by. Otherwise you'll sell $40 in boards and get a 3 hr conversation to go with it. Nothing wrong with the conversation but it's not good for production.

Find the markets where the wood has to be worked a little. Meaning short pieces and angled cuts. The markets that pay the best are the markets that can't be done in a high production mill.

Scott


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## 4x4American

STLfirewood said:


> Here is a little advice. If you can afford it skip the manual mill and get a LT40 or something like that. There are a lot of used ones out there. I missed one around here that went for 9k. Most are 12-20k. If things don't work out you can resell the pretty easy.
> 
> Ok now here are some thoughts on markets.
> 
> Pallets. You can make good money building pallets. Just not the pallets that are mass produced with machines. There are companies that buy custom pallets. These pallets pay well.
> 
> Wood workers. These guys can be a pain in the butt. They knit pick everything and take a lot of time to choose their material. If you choose to sell to this market choose one day a week or every two weeks wood workers can come by. Otherwise you'll sell $40 in boards and get a 3 hr conversation to go with it. Nothing wrong with the conversation but it's not good for production.
> 
> Find the markets where the wood has to be worked a little. Meaning short pieces and angled cuts. The markets that pay the best are the markets that can't be done in a high production mill.
> 
> Scott




Good advice. I have a few custom pallets in my field, they are so dang heavy and well built. When I had them loaded in the 1500 that thing was squattin! I like those pallets alot and I could see myself doing that. Just not sure how to do that curved cut for the fork port.


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## zogger

Sounds like you would do well in anything you try on your own, just get the "business" part down over the "work" part.


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## Jim Timber

Some excellent advice in here!

I hadn't thought about how woodworkers are chatty. Limiting sales to specific days is about the best advice you can get with that bunch. I once had a guy talk about my shop for an hour and a half before he even got serious about the $60 engine I was selling.  Now I don't let anyone back there. 

Same thing happened with a wire feeder I have on CL now. Kid shows up, I demo the unit in my garage (power supply back in the shop out of sight via long cables) and he then started asking me all these noob welding questions. Didn't buy the feeder. UGH!

My goal for wood sales (I'm in the same boat - starting milling my own soon) was to find cabinet shops to sell to along with doing direct sales of slabs and more figured pieces. Auctions are another decent way to move product. You'll take a hit off the top for their fees, but you'll have a lot better exposure for your wares. I saw a 16' feed trough sell for $240 at an auction last fall. It was nothing more than 2x wood stuck together with some plywood end caps.


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## 4x4American

So I went to a pretty good sized forestry expo in Essex Junction VT a few weeks ago, got a chance to check out woodmizer, norwood, and hud-son portable mills...I remain with my gut feeling that Woodmizer is the way to go. Anyways, everyone I have talked to around here, except for one person, thinks that there is not a dime in portable sawmilling around here. Logging is big in this area, and there are a few mass production mills around, two of them within minutes of me, and a handful of smaller outfits. I have not seen any ads or anything for portable mills. One guy at work said his friend down the road bought a woodmizer and hasn't made any money with it. Said he got burned once by doing a job and the guy never paid. (Who knows how well the guy got his name out and what kinda work he did.) Most of the people seem to think that with all the big mills around, I won't be able to match prices, get business or stay afloat. I might try to dabble in some gypo logging and sawmilling.


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## zogger

4x4American said:


> So I went to a pretty good sized forestry expo in Essex Junction VT a few weeks ago, got a chance to check out woodmizer, timberking, norwood, and hud-son portable mills...I remain with my gut feeling that Woodmizer is the way to go. Anyways, everyone I have talked to around here, except for one person, thinks that there is not a dime in portable sawmilling around here. Logging is big in this area, and there are a few mass production mills around, two of them within minutes of me, and a handful of smaller outfits. I have not seen any ads or anything for portable mills. One guy at work said his friend down the road bought a woodmizer and hasn't made any money with it. Said he got burned once by doing a job and the guy never paid. (Who knows how well the guy got his name out and what kinda work he did.) Most of the people seem to think that with all the big mills around, I won't be able to match prices, get business or stay afloat. I might try to dabble in some gypo logging and sawmilling.



I worked for a real old geezer once who had a woodmizer. That thing apparently cut great (I never saw it running but it looked impressive), he had stacks of his own milled lumber kicking around, but he claimed he never made much with it. He was always looking for "investors" to come in and use the thing to make lumber, then make money somehow, but it never happened.

Now, with that said, if you could use the lumber to make things for retail, anything, furniture, cabin kits, doghouse kits, playground stuff, benches, who knows, anything, then perhaps it might work.

With the internet, the world is your market. Might be about zero local market, that doesn't mean you couldn't sell off the web and ship stuff.


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## 4x4American

Good thoughts...I'm not too awful skilled in woodworking. Reckon it's nothing i can't learn though. I am meticulous about certain things


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## KiwiBro

4x4American said:


> One guy at work said his friend down the road bought a woodmizer and hasn't made any money with it. Said he got burned once by doing a job and the guy never paid.


I'd be asking him if he wants to sell it.


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## 4x4American

not a bad idea, believe I'll look into that


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## Dave Boyt

Converting logs to lumber is one thing... converting lumber to cash is another. You'll never be able to compete with the big mills, so finding specialized markets will be the key. Trailer decking, barn siding, and fencing may be good options to get started. Added service, such as installing the trailer decking, air drying the lumber, etc. will also help out the bottom line, if you price it high enough to make a profit.

I bucked the trend and sold my hydraulic mill (Timberharvester) for a Norwood manual sawmill (HD36), and it was a great move. Portable sawmilling accounts for about 60% of my business, and the manual mill is simpler to run, easier to get to the job site, and much more reliable than the hydraulic. Since there are no other portable sawmills in the area, I keep busy. And there are no issues about selling logs.

If you do go the used route, avoid any mill that has been left out in the weather. Otherwise you will be replacing hydraulic lines, fighting bad electrical connections, and dealing with a host of other problems.


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## hseII

Dave Boyt said:


> Converting logs to lumber is one thing... converting lumber to cash is another. You'll never be able to compete with the big mills, so finding specialized markets will be the key. Trailer decking, barn siding, and fencing may be good options to get started. Added service, such as installing the trailer decking, air drying the lumber, etc. will also help out the bottom line, if you price it high enough to make a profit.
> 
> If you do go the used route, avoid any mill that has been left out in the weather. Otherwise you will be replacing hydraulic lines, fighting bad electrical connections, and dealing with a host of other problems.



We've got a guy in our area that does this very well with his Woodmizer.

He Stays busy.


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## 4x4American

KiwiBro said:


> I'd be asking him if he wants to sell it.


went over to the guys place with the woodmizer on lunch break the other day, he wasn't around, and I didn't see the mill, but I did see stickered lumber all over the place. nothing looked like it was recently cut. Will have to try back another time


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## 4x4American

Dave Boyt said:


> Converting logs to lumber is one thing... converting lumber to cash is another. You'll never be able to compete with the big mills, so finding specialized markets will be the key. Trailer decking, barn siding, and fencing may be good options to get started. Added service, such as installing the trailer decking, air drying the lumber, etc. will also help out the bottom line, if you price it high enough to make a profit.
> 
> I bucked the trend and sold my hydraulic mill (Timberharvester) for a Norwood manual sawmill (HD36), and it was a great move. Portable sawmilling accounts for about 60% of my business, and the manual mill is simpler to run, easier to get to the job site, and much more reliable than the hydraulic. Since there are no other portable sawmills in the area, I keep busy. And there are no issues about selling logs.
> 
> If you do go the used route, avoid any mill that has been left out in the weather. Otherwise you will be replacing hydraulic lines, fighting bad electrical connections, and dealing with a host of other problems.



I was thinking that what i might do, is try to find a used manual portable mill, and see where that leads me. If I can keep busy and pay it off with the profits, then I might look into a woodmizer lt40 hydraulic...if not, well then sell the thing buy a skidder and go logging see if i can't pay that one off.


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## 4x4American

hseII said:


> We've got a guy in our area that does this very well with his Woodmizer.
> 
> He Stays busy.


good to hear, what state are ya in


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## KiwiBro

4x4American said:


> If I can keep busy and pay it off with the profits


 How much asking around for buyers etc have you done to help ease your mind there is a market for the lumber, or are you going to rely on providing a milling service to others or a bit of both or? Finding buyers for the lumber is often the hard part, me thinks. 
Here, I have rights on hundreds of tonnes of premium grades of standing saw logs that I have refused to harvest until I can find a lumber buyer. It's been such a hard/long/unsuccessful process finding buyers that forest owners are changing, selling their land, and my rights are sketchy at best in some of these woodlots now. I would buy a $70k mill tomorrow if I had a lumber buyer lined up because it would pay that mill off inside a year or two, but without lumber buyers, it's a recipe for ruin.


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## 4x4American

KiwiBro said:


> How much asking around for buyers etc have you done to help ease your mind there is a market for the lumber, or are you going to rely on providing a milling service to others or a bit of both or? Finding buyers for the lumber is often the hard part, me thinks.
> Here, I have rights on hundreds of tonnes of premium grades of standing saw logs that I have refused to harvest until I can find a lumber buyer. It's been such a hard/long/unsuccessful process finding buyers that forest owners are changing, selling their land, and my rights are sketchy at best in some of these woodlots now. I would buy a $70k mill tomorrow if I had a lumber buyer lined up because it would pay that mill off inside a year or two, but without lumber buyers, it's a recipe for ruin.


My plan was to start off going door to door milling for now. There's a guy I've been talking to outta VT who's making a go of it. I have seen/heard of no portable sawyers round here. Lots of logging going on though. Been busy at the shop too. We sold/installed 3 rotobec log loaders in the past few weeks and just got more in and today two hood loaders showed up. The company wouldn't bring them in unless there was buyers, which says to me, that logging is in it's boom stage right now round here


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## 4x4American

I put an ad up on CL to try and see how much of a market there is around here for portable sawmilling service, so far I've gotten 2 people who are interested within 24 hours. The second guy said that he thought it would be a great venture for me as there's no one around here that does door to door milling. 

Anyways, I am trying to do what I can right now to learn about bandsaw milling without having a mill. Does anyone know of any good books to read, or internet sites to go to?

Thanks


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## Dave Boyt

Check with manufacturers about videos & info, and make sure you get a mill that suits your purposes. Even if you have to travel a ways, it would be very worthwhile to spend some time working on a sawmill for the experience. The single biggest mistake I see people make is to depend on making an income from day 1. It takes years to build up a business, and that means having a cash reserve to get you through the lean times.


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## SDB777

Have you looked here?
http://www.woodmizer.com/us/ResourceCenter/FindaCustomSawyer.aspx


I started with a chainsaw mill, worked and cut enough with that to purchase a small bandsaw mill. The mill is not portable though, so it may not apply for anything you are intending to do.... It takes time to 'build a business', as with everything getting your name out there is probably the toughest part.

One piece of advise. Don't try to build so quickly that you cut your own throat. In other words, don't sell yourself cheap. Once that gets around, you will always be known as the guy that does things cheap....or worse, free. And then no one will be willing to pay. Come up with a plan, price list, and cover everything from wear on equipment to 'steel' in the timber.....and then stick to it.




Scott (lots of mills in the world, choose what you want) B


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## Jim Timber

Dave Boyt said:


> Check with manufacturers about videos & info, and make sure you get a mill that suits your purposes. Even if you have to travel a ways, it would be very worthwhile to spend some time working on a sawmill for the experience. The single biggest mistake I see people make is to depend on making an income from day 1. It takes years to build up a business, and that means having a cash reserve to get you through the lean times.



I was reading some info on one of the manufacturers websites about how to structure a business plan around the mill. They did pretty well explaining things, but used full week (5 days) and 6 day week scenarios. I about spit my beverage when I saw that.

Milling other people's wood is a cash flow thing and likely only good for filling in down time when you're waiting on inventory to sell. You only make real money creating value added (the wood). The day rates most companies use to "sell" their mills are poverty. You'll have travel time and expenses, as well as insurance to account for. Liability and comprehensive. When you're towing the mill around, it's probably not covered by your auto policy. If it's a commercial operation, it's certainly not covered by your home owners either.


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## 4x4American

good thoughts everyone, lots to think about!


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## Jim Timber

If you have the trees (or access to them), and you can get a kiln running, you might be able to drum up enough business to keep you busy selling directly to cabinet shops or maybe flooring contractors? This is going to be better demand than praying you find 300+ home owners who need a pile of logs sawn up every year. It's still not going to make you good money, but at least it potentially will keep your kids fed.

One of the most enlightening interviews I listened to on the subject was a radio show with this fellow who runs a farm I think in SW Wisconsin. He had a mill, but he didn't sell lumber so much as he sold higher tier products made from it. He also sold their waste products for animal bedding and mulch. Totally vertically integrated, and had some artists/craftsmen on staff making nick knacks, flooring (and installing it), furniture, etc - they had a good business model like that, but not a one-man proposition.

I think the real profit potential with a mill is making high end stuff people can't buy from Ikea or Ethan Allen (look at the "what'd you make with your wood threads - those pieces will sell for good money!). Unless there's a lack of supply for such things, even that's not going to produce profits from the start. What made me almost spit in the comment above was that the article only mentioned that your productivity would have a bit of a learning curve before you were able to crank out the rated production output of their products. What's so funny is that it takes years to achieve that much demand for your services (if you ever do?).

I'd like to sell wood someday, but I see the immediate value in a mill as a way to create lumber I'd otherwise need to buy from someone else. I already have the trees...


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## 4x4American

I was thinking to try and get a cheap enough used mill that I'd also be able to get a skidder and call it: Logging Today, Milling Tomorrow


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## Mike Van

No matter what mill you buy, dirt is your biggest enemy. You can not saw a log packed with it, unless you want to change blades after every cut, and you can not saw with dull blades. Power washing, de barking, using a bark spud, whatever is not 'free time' Going to peoples log piles, you will see the worst logs in the worst shape you can imagine. And, they expect veneer quality lumber out of them. Most woodworkers I know will not buy lumber that is not kiln dried, they just won't take the risk of insects, knots bleeding out, etc. If you try to be a lumber yard, you need a lot of room. Even rough sawn framing type lumber, if you make 12' 2x8's, they'll ask for 2x10's, and on & on. My 20+ year old mill is fixed here, not portable. All my support stuff [tools, welder loader, sharpener, setter, etc] stay right here. My best market has turned out to be other peoples logs, they haul them in, quick turn around. The 'big' mills won't even talk to the guy with 4 or 5 logs. You don't have to worry about competing with 'big' mills. I get paid before the lumber leaves, I don't care if its a friend of a friends cousin or what, 20+ years, I haven't been shafted like someone posted above. It's too hard a job to not get paid. I've had a good local market the last few years sawing black locust for raised garden beds, many people today do no believe in the 'better living through chemistry' theme. I've sold it for trailer decks, sills in barns, sign posts, etc. There's locust posts still here my grandfather put in 50 years ago. The daily board footage totals most mill mfg's post are there to sell their mill, thats all. Real world totals under real world conditions are much lower. At 63, I'm happy to saw 1000 bf in a day. Some days it's 500. I went to .40 bf this year, I was at .35 for a long time. I work alone, all the time. If you have a big bank note to pay off, [i never did] you really have to hustle, not just to make expenses, but to put money in your wallet at the end of the day. It's too hard of work to lose money at it. I wish you well if you get into this work, success is not a sure thing, though. I've got some lumber in the barns 20 years now, not too good a return on investment. If I cut it logs into firewood, I get paid within a year. Last winter everyone ran out of good firewood. Not everyone's always looking for clear oak boards though. This is the most I've typed in ??? If it wasn't pouring rain, I'd be out working............


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## 4x4American

Thanks for the post, sure helps!...I see you're from Kent, CT. Do you know the Osbournes? My old boss is from there, her old man does excavating work, and plays drums in a band and her brother has a business doing some sort of stone work I think...can't remember exactly what. His name's Adam Osbourne. Then there's Aunt Nina she has a farm there not sure the name of it. You know any of them?


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## Mike Van

Small world, I know them all - Good friends too -


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## 4x4American

Pretty cool! Good folks they are


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## Dave Boyt

*"I was thinking to try and get a cheap enough used mill..."*

Been there, done that. Look at it this way. The mill is the foundation of your business, and a cheap mill can cost you more time and aggravation than it is worth. Get a good mill that will do the job, even if you have to buy a new one. Then take care of it. My previous mill was a cheap used hydraulic mill, and I wasted a lot of time trying to keep everything working. I finally sold it and bought a GOOD manual sawmill (Norwood) that I can upgrade to hydraulic later when I can afford it. After three years, I still use it as a manual mill, but have had the funds to set up a kiln and get a good 4wd tractor to move logs & lumber.


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## STLfirewood

Here is a picture of a slab holder I made. It works great for my secondary market from the waste. Here is also a picture of what the waste becomes.


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## Jim Timber

Which is why a wood fired kiln seems like a burgers and beer combo to me.


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## STLfirewood

Jim Timber said:


> Which is why a wood fired kiln seems like a burgers and beer combo to me.


I don't understand what that means? But I do have a wood fired kiln.


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## 4x4American

He means that they go great together. Great idea with the slab holder. At the sawmill I worked at I'd just pile the slabs as neat as I could then take my 066 with 3ft bar and cut it up best I could and use the wood to run our maple sap boiler/OWB


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## STLfirewood

4x4American said:


> He means that they go great together. Great idea with the slab holder. At the sawmill I worked at I'd just pile the slabs as neat as I could then take my 066 with 3ft bar and cut it up best I could and use the wood to run our maple sap boiler/OWB[/QUOTE
> 
> I thoughts that what he meant. Just caught me off gaurd becase I have a wood fired kiln and most people don't.
> 
> Scott


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## KiwiBro

STLfirewood said:


> Here is a picture of a slab holder I made. It works great for my secondary market from the waste.


 How much of that sort of firewood do you produce each year and do you stack the slabwood to dry or cut it and then what - stack the firewood length wood or pile it or are they all in crates or on pallets or?
We can but dream:


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## Jim Timber

I don't know why more people don't have wood fired kilns. They seem like a no-brainer for a mill operation. You produce a decent amount of scrap just truing up the logs - might as well use it to speed up the drying times.


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## Sawyer Rob

Jim Timber said:


> I don't know why more people don't have wood fired kilns. They seem like a no-brainer for a mill operation. You produce a decent amount of scrap just truing up the logs - might as well use it to speed up the drying times.



Because I use it to heat my house and shop....it saves me a lot of money in a years time.

SR


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## Mike Van

Me too Rob - Some people say "slabs - ugh" theres a lot of heat in good hardwood slabs. I use all the pine etc for the syrup evaporator. Burned 4 cord in that evaporator year before last.


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## Sawyer Rob

Over the years I've dealt with slab wood in many different ways... Cross braced holders for chain sawing, chain sawed right off the pallet forks into piles, tractor/belt powered cross cuts ect... As I get older and hurt more, I just like to make a pass with the BSM, then chain saw the slab right where it lies! Then I pick the firewood lengths and throw them onto my sno-machine trailer,







When the trailer is full, I pull it to the splitter and split the bigger pieces to size,






If they are big enough, they hit the 4-way, if not, they go right under it,






These days, I'm taking lumber right off the mill and building 1/2 cord fire wood boxes,






Once filled, they are easy to move with my tractor,






In the winter, the seasoned wood will be easy to move again, to the house to throw down into the basement to be burned.

SR


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## STLfirewood

KiwiBro said:


> How much of that sort of firewood do you produce each year and do you stack the slabwood to dry or cut it and then what stack the firewood length wood or pile it or are they all in crates or on pallets or?
> We can but dream:



I sell a min of 2 full cords a week of cook 
wood. Some weeks it's 2 1/2 cords. So 
that's over 100 cords a year of that type 
of wood. I also sell 100-150 plus cords 
Of regular firewood through the winter. I pile it. I don't stack it until I'm selling it.


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## STLfirewood

Jim Timber said:


> I don't know why more people don't have wood fired kilns. They seem like a no-brainer for a mill operation. You produce a decent amount of scrap just truing up the logs - might as well use it to speed up the drying times.[/QUOTE
> 
> I think the main reason is cost.


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## Dave Boyt

Labor, too. with gas or electric, you just push a few buttons, and you can sleep all night without feeding the furnace.


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## CRThomas

4x4American said:


> Howdy
> wondering if there's much money in the sawmilling business? What would be the best ways to make money with a wood mizer portable mill? Is it possible to achieve a steady and comfortable income sawmilling?
> Any advice or ideas are welcomed and appreciated
> Thanks!
> Doug


 I HAD A FRIEND BOUGHT A LITTLE $3000.00 SAW MILL FOR HIS OWN USE WHEN HE GOT HIS WOOD HE NEEDED SAWED HE LET IT SET A FELLOW FROM ST LOUIS MO ASK HIM IF HE WOOD CUT SQUARE LUMBER HE QUIT HIS JOB AND DOES THAT TYPE OF WOOD. HE STILL HAS THAT SAME MILL. HE IS DOING VERY WELL DOING SQUARE WOOD WHAT EVER THAT IS. HE TOLD MY FRIEND HE WAS HOING TO HAVE TO BUY ANOTHER MILL AFTER 3 YEARS IT HAS TOOK IT TOLL ON IT HIS LITTLE MILL RUNS ABOUT 60 TO 80 HOURS A WEEK. I WENT BY HIS PLACE AND HE WAS KNEE DEEP IN SAW DUST. HE BUYS LOG FROM MILL THAT ARE GOING TO SELL TO WESTVACO BECAUSE THEY ARE TO SMALL FOR THERE BIG ROUND BLADES JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ON.


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## mountainlake

The best way too make money with a woodmizer is to buy any mill but a woodmizer unless you get a small manual one. The bigger WM hydraulic mills are way to complicated with the electric over hydraulics, electric feed that is real troublesome, cantilevered head that is hard on bearing and not easy to adjust plus they have been over priced but are coming down. Cooks. Timberking and Baker make some nice hydraulic mills without all the troublesome electric . Far as making money you can do good custom sawing if you saw straight lumber at a good pace (right now I'm way too busy and the 2 biggest complaints I get about other mills is that they are slow and cut crooked) and charge a reasonable rate. Sawing straight is not hard on any mill, have the mill set up right and use the right blade that's sharp, as soon as you see it cut one board crooked it's time to change blades. Also I sell a good amount of lumber for trailer decking, fencing etc which I make good money buying logs white oak logs for .30 a bf and selling for .90 to $1.00 a bf and the short side boards go to flooring for .60.. Nobody thinks twice about buying a $30000 car or pickup, a $30000 sawmill is a way better investment. With that said don't quit your day job until you have a good business going. I quit mine a bit early as it was ^^%& job and the first couple years were a little tight but I got by OK. One other thing if you plan on doing a lot of sawing get a diesel, I've saved over $8000 since I put a diesel on mine. Steve


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## 4x4American

mountainlake said:


> The best way too make money with a woodmizer is to buy any mill but a woodmizer unless you get a small manual one. The bigger WM hydraulic mills are way to complicated with the electric over hydraulics, electric feed that is real troublesome, cantilevered head that is hard on bearing and not easy to adjust plus they have been over priced but are coming down. Cooks. Timberking and Baker make some nice hydraulic mills without all the troublesome electric . Far as making money you can do good custom sawing if you saw straight lumber at a good pace (right now I'm way too busy and the 2 biggest complaints I get about other mills is that they are slow and cut crooked) and charge a reasonable rate. Sawing straight is not hard on any mill, have the mill set up right and use the right blade that's sharp, as soon as you see it cut one board crooked it's time to change blades. Also I sell a good amount of lumber for trailer decking, fencing etc which I make good money buying logs white oak logs for .30 a bf and selling for .90 to $1.00 a bf and the short side boards go to flooring for .60.. Nobody thinks twice about buying a $30000 car or pickup, a $30000 sawmill is a way better investment. With that said don't quit your day job until you have a good business going. I quit mine a bit early as it was ^^%& job and the first couple years were a little tight but I got by OK. One other thing if you plan on doing a lot of sawing get a diesel, I've saved over $8000 since I put a diesel on mine. Steve



Thanks for your advise. I have been in touch with a few WM owners and they seem to be happy with their mill..I looked into Baker. One woodmizer rep I've talked with seems to think that gas is the way to go for door to door milling which I will most likely start out doing. The electric over hydraulics doesn't scare me, I went to school for diesel technology and there was quite abit of hydraulics classes I had to take. I have a good understanding of them, and at my past few mechanic jobs I've done a bit with hydraulics. What do you think of Norwood? What kinda mill do you run? And you're right, I always think the same thing, you see people all the time taking out $30k +- loans on cars/pickups, and alot of them don't use the vehicle to make them money.


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## 4x4American

I am researching cooks right now, so far from what the company claims, they're bulit like a burlap bag full of bobcats


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## 4x4American

I can't seem to find any prices on Cook's sawmills, does anybody know the price range of an AC-36 with a diesel?


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## mountainlake

I have a B20 TK with over 9500 hours on it and very few break downs on anything except the electrical things, mostly switches and a couple of solenoids as mine has electric up - down. I've had to call TK less than 5 times in 11 years , one guy on the Foresty Forum doesn't even like to saw on Saturday as WM is closed then, read a little on the FF forum and you will see one problem after another with WM mills. As far as TK putting WM down Wm puts TK mills down or maybe 4 post mills in general as there is a lot of miss information about TK mills. I really cant see how you can saw a perfectly square log with a cantilevered head as they claim the head pulls down 1/16 of a inch and that pull down will vary depending on wide you are cutting and how hard the wood is plus how much power you have. On the plus side for WM they have a better debarker and the setworks homes in on where it should be but quite a few are having trouble with the head dropping in the middle of the cut as their gearbox won't hold the heavier heads . Just watching and looking over a TK 2000 and a LT40 or LT50 the TK should sell itself as it's a lot simpler machine that's built rugged. The new 2000 TK did away with that and the only thing electric on it is the power in and out guide roller. The Norwood is a fine mill but if your going to do custom sawing and give a good value for the money you really need a fully hydraulic mill. I really like the looks of Cooks and Baker mills also. Keep in mind maintenance can eat up a LOT of money and my TK has not cost much to maintain. Also there is no way I'd go with a gas motor unless I did very little sawing, I'd guess a diesel will pay for the extra cost in 2000 to 2500 hours, plus way less maintenance, oil changes at 200 hours instead of 50 hours, a Kubota or Yanmar should last 10000 hours vs anywhere from 2500 to 5000 for a gas. I'd stay away from Cat as they seem to have a lot of trouble Steve


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## mountainlake

4x4American said:


> I can't seem to find any prices on Cook's sawmills, does anybody know the price range of an AC-36 with a diesel?



Cooks sends me a flyer every once in a while, I'm thinking a AC36 is close to $40000 and should be compared to a LT70 WM, A TK 2000 with a Kubota diesel is around $34000 and should be compared to a LT50. What ever mill you get make sure it has a chain turner as they rotate a log real fast and you can back up a little with them. Steve


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## hamish

It happened again, made some extra money tonight at the mill. 

2 hours of milling and almost made as much in my pocket as I would have after my regular nine hour day at work.


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## 4x4American

hamish said:


> It happened again, made some extra money tonight at the mill.
> 
> 2 hours of milling and almost made as much in my pocket as I would have after my regular nine hour day at work.


Thats great to hear! What kinda mill are you running?


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## 4x4American

mountainlake said:


> Cooks sends me a flyer every once in a while, I'm thing a AC36 is close to $40000 and should be compared to a LT70 WM, A TK 2000 with a Kubota diesel is around $34000 and should be compared to a LT50. What ever mill you get make sure it has a chain turner as they rotate a log real fast and you can back up a little with them. Steve



I like the looks of the Cook ones quite a bit, they seem to be built real well. And heck, maybe a road trip down to Bama might be fun!


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## Dave Boyt

mountainlake said:


> The Norwood is a fine mill but if your going to do custom sawing and give a good vague for the money you really need a fully hydraulic mill.



Norwood is actually a great "door to door" mill, and I have gotten it into tight places where a hydraulic mill wouldn't fit. The manual version weighs less than 2,000 pounds, and tows easily. You can add any hydraulics at any time. No one has ever complained that I cut too slowly, and it is not unusual for a customer to pay more than what I charge. Any mill can make straight boards out of straight logs, but what do you do when a customer needs specialty cuts? Last week, I milled 30" wide pecan slabs from a crotch that was only 34" long. I don't know of any other portable mill that could have done it.

Here is a photo of a recent milling job where I set up right in a driveway.


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## mountainlake

The thing is with a good hydraulic mill you can put out 2500 to 3000 bf in a day with a couple of good off bearers , that's not going to happen with a small manual mill . Steve


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## hamish

4x4American said:


> Thats great to hear! What kinda mill are you running?


 Running a Norwood ML26 manual mill. With one good off bearer can usually get in excess of 2000bf a day.


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## 4x4American

I talked with Cook's today. Nice folks for sure. Thing is they only have one location down in Alabama, which is a 20 hour drive for me. Now I don't mind driving that far, and I would like to see more of Dixieland. I think my truck can make it, but who knows it has close to 200k miles and it's a Dodge. That would kill a weekend making that trip and cost quite a bit. If they were to ship it, it will cost around $2,500, and I don't get a lesson. With the woodmizer, I can pick it up right down the road and get a lesson on it and make it back home and saw the rest of the weekend. Also, they have a cheaper hydraulic mill that can handle 36" logs. The Cook's rep said that it takes about 30-40 mins to set it up on site. WM claims to be able to set up in minutes. I like that the Cook one is fully hydraulic and uses parts that you can get anywhere...tough decision I've got here.


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## mountainlake

A LT40 is no comparisons to a AC36 Cooks even if it can handle 36" logs . Cooks is being more honest on the setup time, from reading post on WM setup it takes a while also. If you want a lot of repairs on a over complicated mill get the WM. Steve


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## 4x4American

Anyone else running a WM LT40 or a Cook's or Baker or Norwood or Woodchuck or whatever you got on here that wants to chip in anything?


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