# forced air vs boiler



## dead elm (Jun 18, 2011)

OK, I have been researching the outdoor options. I kinda was sold on the otdoor forced air option due to it simplicity and low cost. My neighbor who is a pipefitter has been working me like a speedbag that it won't work and the boiler is the only was to go. My house is pretty small less then 2000 ft2. Anyone have a forced air ? Especially a Fire Chief?


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## lampmfg (Jun 18, 2011)

*Forced air indoor furnace*

If your interested in the most efficient and safest forced air indoor wood furnace on the market do a little research on the Kuuma VaporFire. 

For 2000 square fee the VaporFire 200 would be a perfect fit. Remember No Smoke mean No Creosote...


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## freemind (Jun 18, 2011)

I built my own.

I don't like the idea of the Firechief and others, that have ONE register in the wall that brings in heat. In a small, very open home, it may work good. On a two story, or one with many walls, I have serious doubts.

My furnace hooks up to my existing duct work.


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## duane9835 (Jun 19, 2011)

What type of heat does your house have Now???


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## dead elm (Jun 19, 2011)

I have a forced air oil furnance, the house is two story no duct work upstairs. There are additions on the ends hard to build a chimney. I am leaning towards a boiler now, the heat storage in the tank must make it much more efficeint


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## dave_dj1 (Jun 20, 2011)

just remember there is no free ride! A hot water system will set you back a pretty penny, figure the payback period. I have a homemade hotair outdoor unit that I love, you just have to tend to it a little more as there is no way to store the excess heat.
good luck!~


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## howard270 (Jun 20, 2011)

I too am interested in the outdoor forced air furnace and have done hundreds of hours of research on the different brands out there. Also, have been PMing some guys about their outdoor furnaces. For me, I have narrowed it down to the Hopsco or the Shaver Thermorwind. Again, these are the two that I think will fit my situation the best.

These can tie into my existing ductwork quite easily, just need to add a cool air intake/return. The main thing is all the mess will stay outside, since I do all the cleaning.

Due to the simplicity, I am thinking of installing one of these smaller units in my great-aunts house that I am currently living in and using it for this next winter, and if I like it just undo the ductwork and take it out to my house on the farm next summer, if not I will install it in the shop to keep it warm and go another route.


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## CrappieKeith (Jun 20, 2011)

howard270 said:


> I too am interested in the outdoor forced air furnace and have done hundreds of hours of research on the different brands out there. Also, have been PMing some guys about their outdoor furnaces. For me, I have narrowed it down to the Hopsco or the Shaver Thermorwind. Again, these are the two that I think will fit my situation the best.
> 
> These can tie into my existing ductwork quite easily, just need to add a cool air intake/return. The main thing is all the mess will stay outside, since I do all the cleaning.
> 
> Due to the simplicity, I am thinking of installing one of these smaller units in my great-aunts house that I am currently living in and using it for this next winter, and if I like it just undo the ductwork and take it out to my house on the farm next summer, if not I will install it in the shop to keep it warm and go another route.


 
Any warm air furnace can tie into your ducting easily.I just checked out your 2 best choices.
I want to make some comparisons....not much info available to do that.
You would be much better off with a Yukon than either of those 2 choices....like Kuuma said no smoke means no creosote.


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## gwiley (Jun 20, 2011)

I run a CB 5036 (outdoor, water jacket) that is tied into our ductwork and domestic hot water via a heat exchanger. This thing eats wood like a monster, but it is impossible to calculate the savings with 3 kids that take forever showers.

I would not go forced air b/c it would likely eat even more wood than my OWB and I have a hard time feeding the 10 cords per year I deal with now.


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## howard270 (Jun 20, 2011)

CrappieKeith said:


> Any warm air furnace can tie into your ducting easily.I just checked out your 2 best choices.
> I want to make some comparisons....not much info available to do that.
> You would be much better off with a Yukon than either of those 2 choices....like Kuuma said no smoke means no creosote.


 
I was waiting for you to chime in Keith. Have read all your posts regarding furnaces and boilers that I can find.

PM sent.


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## CrappieKeith (Jun 20, 2011)

gwiley said:


> I run a CB 5036 (outdoor, water jacket) that is tied into our ductwork and domestic hot water via a heat exchanger. This thing eats wood like a monster


 You live in Va. Just imagine having a much heavier heat load living in a colder climate like Mn.
....and you think you go through wood there.Try 10-30 below zero...you may want to think about adding insulation to your home.


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## laynes69 (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't think at this time any of the outdoor forced units are very efficient. There are some around here and they use much more wood than we do with their smaller homes. Also the OWB'S use more wood than we do. If I had to go outside, I would look into a gasification boiler with storage. Expensive yes, but very efficient. Most outdoor forced air furnaces are a simple firebox and baffle. They produce alot of smoke and waste wood. Other than the mess being outdoors, there are many positives having an efficient wood furnace indoors. Woodfurnaces are starting to clean up and there are many nice units on the market.


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## Schells (Jun 20, 2011)

CrappieKeith said:


> You live in Va. Just imagine having a much heavier heat load living in a colder climate like Mn.
> ....and you think you go through wood there.Try 10-30 below zero...you may want to think about adding insulation to your home.


 
I agree mn has a few cold days. I heat my house, attached garage, and a 30 by50 shop with a cb 6048. Love it, they do like wood but all stoves do when it that cold and heat for so many months. I had a forced air stove and went to a cb and love it.


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## CrappieKeith (Jun 21, 2011)

Schells said:


> I agree mn has a few cold days. I heat my house, attached garage, and a 30 by50 shop with a cb 6048. Love it, they do like wood but all stoves do when it that cold and heat for so many months. I had a forced air stove and went to a cb and love it.


 
Well you most certainly have the situation where a OWB would come in really handy...glad it is doing what you need it to do.


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## CrappieKeith (Jun 21, 2011)

laynes69 said:


> I don't think at this time any of the outdoor forced units are very efficient.


 
I agree ,but if you bought an efficient warm air furnace and then did all you could to insulate that furnace and the ducting lines..having them as short as possible you could achieve heating your home the way you want.
when I agreed ...it was the idea that the marketed outdoor warm air furnaces were the ones you were referring to..an assumption.


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## abikerboy (Aug 12, 2011)

I've got the Hopsco E-1000 forced air stove, and through the cold months I've been very impressed with it's heating. Upon doing some cleaning it out and all of the good stuff recently, I did find a couple of minor issues with the construction of the unit that has slightly disappointed me. Hopefully will have it straightened out professionaly soon. So far, I think that after getting the bugs ironed out, this unit will be worth all of the effort expended!


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## J.W Younger (Aug 15, 2011)

howard270 said:


> I too am interested in the outdoor forced air furnace and have done hundreds of hours of research on the different brands out there. Also, have been PMing some guys about their outdoor furnaces. For me, I have narrowed it down to the Hopsco or the Shaver Thermorwind. Again, these are the two that I think will fit my situation the best.
> 
> These can tie into my existing ductwork quite easily, just need to add a cool air intake/return. The main thing is all the mess will stay outside, since I do all the cleaning.
> 
> Due to the simplicity, I am thinking of installing one of these smaller units in my great-aunts house that I am currently living in and using it for this next winter, and if I like it just undo the ductwork and take it out to my house on the farm next summer, if not I will install it in the shop to keep it warm and go another route.


 If you have'nt allready, look at hardy. All stainless, smaller water capacity/large firebox.
I've had my H-2 23 years.


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## Fyrebug (Aug 16, 2011)

Any particular reason why you are looking for an outdoor forced air vs indoor?


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## CrappieKeith (Aug 16, 2011)

dead elm said:


> I am leaning towards a boiler now, the heat storage in the tank must make it much more efficeint


 
hardly....if the unit is not able to make all of the btu's per lb then having thermal mass in a big water tank doesn't add to efficiency.

Also if your adding glycol your heat transfer drops even more.,,,by as much as 30%.


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## mtfallsmikey (Aug 17, 2011)

CrappieKeith said:


> hardly....if the unit is not able to make all of the btu's per lb then having thermal mass in a big water tank doesn't add to efficiency.
> 
> Also if your adding glycol your heat transfer drops even more.,,,by as much as 30%.



Keith is correct (not sucking up tho, bud!). The gasifier has the best combustion efficiency, but you need lots of storage, very well insulated, to make it work effectively. To run a gasifier, you basically have to "blast burn". Build a fire, let it burn, heat the water in your storage, then it shuts down. I have a Central CB 5036 heating a 1200 s.f. house, 800 s.f. shop, adding domestic h.w. soon, maybe a small greenhouse in the future. I have forced air heat/A.C., but no basement. If I did, I would go with the forced air furnace, you can add an electronic air filter, humidifier, etc., and if you want to get really fancy, you can zone the ductwork. But, a well-designed hydronic system, whether baseboard/radiators/radiant, is the most comfortable form of heat made by man.


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## CrappieKeith (Aug 17, 2011)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Keith is correct (not sucking up tho, bud!). The gasifier has the best combustion efficiency, but you need lots of storage, very well insulated, to make it work effectively. To run a gasifier, you basically have to "blast burn". Build a fire, let it burn, heat the water in your storage, then it shuts down. I have a Central CB 5036 heating a 1200 s.f. house, 800 s.f. shop, adding domestic h.w. soon, maybe a small greenhouse in the future. I have forced air heat/A.C., but no basement. If I did, I would go with the forced air furnace, you can add an electronic air filter, humidifier, etc., and if you want to get really fancy, you can zone the ductwork. But, a well-designed hydronic system, whether baseboard/radiators/radiant, is the most comfortable form of heat made by man.


 
I'm glad you qualified your comment...LOL Well said...


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## practicaldesign (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi. I ended up with the hopsco, very satisfied, and yes they made some improvements in the past year. I looked at the kuuma vapor 100 & 200, nice and efficient, however for my purposes it didn't have the heat storage volume. Outdoor wood boilers have a dubious reputation in my region, so much so that people ended up using triple the amount of wood and the manufacturers abandoned them. The new models such as the Polar furnace G3 or the Portage & Main secondary burn models are a big improvement. However from 7600$ to 10600$ CDN for the furnace only is a little steep, and the fact that being a little concerned about the fire getting low at -45c for a month at a time makes a water jacket type none too popular with insurance companies.


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## Bricks (Feb 23, 2013)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Keith is correct (not sucking up tho, bud!). The gasifier has the best combustion efficiency, but you need lots of storage, very well insulated, to make it work effectively. To run a gasifier, you basically have to "blast burn". Build a fire, let it burn, heat the water in your storage, then it shuts down. I have a Central CB 5036 heating a 1200 s.f. house, 800 s.f. shop, adding domestic h.w. soon, maybe a small greenhouse in the future. I have forced air heat/A.C., but no basement. If I did, I would go with the forced air furnace, you can add an electronic air filter, humidifier, etc., and if you want to get really fancy, you can zone the ductwork. But, a well-designed hydronic system, whether baseboard/radiators/radiant, is the most comfortable form of heat made by man.




This is not totally true what storage does is helps control the firing times and how often you want to fire the boiler . Storage does not tremendously increase efficiency. We run an EKO 40 gasification boiler with out storage mostly because in winter I am home to fire it. Temps 25 F and above usually fire every 10-11 hours at 0 windy and below about every 6-8 hours we use roughly 6 chords of wood heating 2400 SF plus shop of 896 SF. Running storage would barely save us 8% in wood usage when calculating for heat loss during storage times.


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## mtfallsmikey (Feb 25, 2013)

Bricks said:


> This is not totally true what storage does is helps control the firing times and how often you want to fire the boiler . Storage does not tremendously increase efficiency. We run an EKO 40 gasification boiler with out storage mostly because in winter I am home to fire it. Temps 25 F and above usually fire every 10-11 hours at 0 windy and below about every 6-8 hours we use roughly 6 chords of wood heating 2400 SF plus shop of 896 SF. Running storage would barely save us 8% in wood usage when calculating for heat loss during storage times.



You are correct in your particular case, the qualifying statement you made is: " I am home to fire it". If you are not home to fire it, then storage capacity for the hot water would be a must, as most owners of these boilers have had to do. Doesn't make it a bad thing tho...


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## reaperman (Feb 25, 2013)

dead elm said:


> OK, I have been researching the outdoor options. I kinda was sold on the otdoor forced air option due to it simplicity and low cost. My neighbor who is a pipefitter has been working me like a speedbag that it won't work and the boiler is the only was to go. My house is pretty small less then 2000 ft2. Anyone have a forced air ? Especially a Fire Chief?



I have a firechief but its inside like most wood furnaces. Honestly, mine works fine for me, but there are better options out there. The firechief design is nothing new or unique over most wood furnaces. Its basically the same design as furnaces 20 years ago. Dont be sucked in by the secondary burn chamber. In all reality secondary air need to be pre heated first, in this furnace its not. And dont let the thermostatically controlled draft fan lead you on either. Especially if your planning on keeping the furnace outside. When your fire dies down to the point of going out. The fan will kick on and feed the fire, cold outside air that will surly cool down your furnace.


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