# Did you guys go to school for this??



## twoodward15 (Oct 25, 2006)

Or were you taught by another? Self taught? I'm new here and looking at some of the replies and they are just phenominal. People asking and getting answers to things that your "normal" joe blow off the street running a saw would never think of. I've dropped my share of trees, but I look like an idiot compared to you guys. I'm safe and know when to NOT do something that I shouldn't be doing, but would like to be better. There's lots of urban trees to cut here. Not thinking of going in to business, but I'd like to be able to help out a friend or get a part time with a treee company if necessary.


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## Remington0404 (Oct 25, 2006)

i am being taught by several other climbers where i work... I'd never think of trying to be self taught... I mean there is somethings u can experiment with and learn on ur own. But like : whats safe to tie into, what trees are safe to climb, stuff like that can't be done on trail and error on ur own.. u know?


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## John464 (Oct 25, 2006)

family business so we teach every generation what we know. I also like to read and study constant ways to improve our business/technique.

As for school, I have a degree, but not in arborculture.


BTW. check your PM


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## Climb020 (Oct 25, 2006)

When I first started I was taught by 2 different business owners. After I learned the basics I just taught myself through sites like this as well as books.


If you are interested in learning something specific PM me. You are only 45 minutes away and we could just meet up somewhere to climb.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 25, 2006)

I think a combination of being taught from other professional climbers as well as studying at a training institute would benefit you the most.

Woodward you seem like a smart bloke, go to an arboriculture school/training institute and get the basics sorted. Be careful about what your learn from other climbers, bad habits are easily picked up.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 25, 2006)

Nice 1 Climb020

Woodward if i was you i would take him up on that offer!


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## twoodward15 (Oct 25, 2006)

That would be great Climb! Thanks. I work at McGuire, so it's close by. Someday I'll take you up on that. I won't be free until next year unfortunately. I am getting ready to go to Geermany next month and get back in December, then x-mas, you get the point. I carpool with an older guy that is in to chainsaws and cutting like I am and we see tree service trucks for sale often. I keep telling him I am going to buy one and start a service, but I have a lot to learn before I even think about doing that.


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## woodville (Oct 25, 2006)

Paul Smith's College upstate NY. Yes it's true the best climbers/Bucket operators/take-down guy's I have ever met had no college degree. College is great if circumstances allow but basically you can learn most of what is taught in college if you have the desire to learn and a computer. As for the art of actual tree work that can only come from natural skill and experience both learning from others and practical experience. The odd thing is most successful business owners I have met do not have degrees in arboriculture but rather in business. Learn from them if you ever work for or meet one of them. The same holds true for the oldtimmers and hot shot's out their that every good company has. This also holds true for the wrong things to do, learn from their mistakes before you make your own.But the one thing that I cannot stress enough is the best thing a green arborist can do is work for a few different company's. I know this is gonna rub some people the wrong way but it definitely expands both your mind,ability,skill and attitude.


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## old timer (Oct 25, 2006)

*look learn listen/twoodward15*

I my self was taught by a top climber of his (day) went on to work for myself learnt all the short cuts to make money BUT my son is now in the trade with a local tree care company to learn , he is enrolled with an arboricultre collage to learn all the modern and safe ways to work , we climb and work together somtimes but i try not to teach my bad habits ,like free climbing, climb high climb safe and enjoy old timer


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## beowulf343 (Oct 25, 2006)

woodville said:


> But the one thing that I cannot stress enough is the best thing a green arborist can do is work for a few different company's. I know this is gonna rub some people the wrong way but it definitely expands both your mind,ability,skill and attitude.


I agree with that. I learned to climb on a takedown crew. Then worked for an Asplundh offroad/backyard crew for 2 years-yeah alot of people have problems with them but it was great experience-where else can you climb twenty to thirty trees every day? Then on to another company learning to trim the "right" way. Then finally to the company I'm at now doing takedowns. My point is that you take the best from every different climber you work with and use it to make yourself a better climber.

To answer twoodward-never went to school for tree work but I have worked with and have been taught by some excellent treemen. But there are also some things that I had to learn on my own.


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## Thillmaine (Oct 25, 2006)

*College?*

I currently attend SUNY Cobleskill, here in upstate NY with an associates in Landscape Development, and a Bachelors in Plant Science. Included in my curriculum was an aboriculture class, but I mean how much tree related info can you leanr in one semester. I have worked for a tree company for 3 years and combining my horticultural knowledge with practical climbing/removal experience has led me to wheer I am know. i do agree many business owners dont have any formal education related to arboriculture, or horticulture, and still do fine for themselves. Personally, being 21 with an education and climbing experience I feel way ahead of most of the folks my age inthe tree care industry. At the same time, I think that one needs a strong desire to learn in school, combined with practical experience. If I had to choose one or the other, I would go with experience. You can learn all you want from books,but until you do it you arent worth a ???? in my book.


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## TreemanFJR (Oct 25, 2006)

We have a family business so I started young. Then I decided this is what I want to do so I went to Southern Illinois U and got a BA in urban forestry. SIU is one of the top forestry schools in the nation. Did I learn arboriculture there? Not so much. That has been through hands on experience and there is no replacement for that. I did pick up a lot of book smarts in things like tree biology and soils (and a ton other things). I think going to school has helped with diagnosing problems and finding solutions for trees. It made the CA test a breeze. Did school teach me how to climb, rig, or fell a tree in a tight spot? Nope.

School also gives me another option the day my body says no more.


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## Munkee feet (Oct 26, 2006)

*school*

I learned to climb and everything on my own! I have been climbing trees since far back as I can remember. I do like to stop and watch other tree guys work and I have hired or say sub out some work and watched them...and I like to read! My problems are in keeping up with the paper work.


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## OTG BOSTON (Oct 26, 2006)

I went to an agricultural college the Stockbridge School at UMASS. I studied turf grass (please no jokes  ) I was always always envious of the Arbor guys coming back from climbing lab with all of the gear, etc. etc.

After two years I left school and got a job with a tree co.worked there for seven years, Got all of my certifications and went back to finish school. Then got the job I have now.

I have trained dozens of young guys, and one girl. IMHO the most important thing you can do if you want to learn is humble yourself enough to learn. The second most important thing is to surround yourself with good teachers.


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## Bermie (Oct 26, 2006)

I started with a two years apprenticeship doing general horticulture, very hands on, then to agriculture college for a year in nursery practices, then 10 years of commercial landscaping, I had tried climbing for one day as an apprentice and thought it was really fun. When I got tired of mowing, pruning, planting, weeding and raking, and supervising, mowing, pruning, planting, weeding and raking, I saw a definite need for specialized arb work, and started taking courses in Arb, chainsaw operation and maintenance, felling, climbing & aerial rescue, rigging, then a three month course which filled in a lot of gaps in tree specific biology and biomechanics and reinforced practical arb work. 
In between I was climbing with others, reading, surfing the net, and doing my own work, my horticulture background was a definite asset.

Climb with others, READ & RESEARCH, sign up for courses, just make sure they are as up to date as possible. What you learn or are taught in a formal setting combined with what you see and do in a real work setting is the way forward, some things you are taught don't 'click' till you do it yourself, and some things you see on the job you will never be taught on a course!


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## elmnut (Oct 28, 2006)

Paul Smith's College, near Saranac lake NY.


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## jmack (Oct 29, 2006)

OTG BOSTON said:


> I went to an agricultural college the Stockbridge School at UMASS. I studied turf grass (please no jokes  ) I was always always envious of the Arbor guys coming back from climbing lab with all of the gear, etc. etc.
> 
> After two years I left school and got a job with a tree co.worked there for seven years, Got all of my certifications and went back to finish school. Then got the job I have now.
> 
> I have trained dozens of young guys, and one girl. IMHO the most important thing you can do if you want to learn is humble yourself enough to learn. The second most important thing is to surround yourself with good teachers.


otg you were a grass geek i never woulda guessed yrs?


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## Steve-Maine (Oct 29, 2006)

I graduated from Stockbridge School of Agriculture, took Landscape Operations.
I did landscaping for about three years and then did tree work, stump grinding and mosquito control for 38 years. Just sold business and retired. Well not really, I now rebuilt and sell brush chippers part time. The most thing I enjoyed was all my very loyal customers.


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## arboralliance (Oct 30, 2006)

*Well...*

Spend some time with Climb020, he seems to have his head screwed on from all the input here and sounds to have some largish kahunas, has done a competition which would have taught him heaps and a very generous offer...

ALWAYS when you're feeling confident step back (or lean back) and triple check everything, over confidence is what sits men on there posteriors real quick and from hieght that spells death...


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## underwor (Oct 30, 2006)

Once again, I will put in a shameless plug for our program at MSU-Bottineau,("The Forestry" in the old days). One and two year programs in Urban Forest Technology. One year also available online, but this is more for people working in the field, with some experience to draw on, at least that seems to make it easier. 

Bob Underwood
Assoc. Professor of Forestry,
MSU-Bottineau, ND


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## Climb020 (Oct 30, 2006)

arboralliance said:


> Spend some time with Climb020, he seems to have his head screwed on from all the input here and sounds to have some largish kahunas, has done a competition which would have taught him heaps and a very generous offer...



Thanks there arbor. I don't see it as generous just trying to help the industry have a more positive look. Too many half @ss guys teach new guys the wrong and unsafe ways. Accidents happen but most happen to be preventable. I get ridiculed by the older guys for following all the safety rules but once you can do it faster then them and are safer, they tend to pipe down very quickly.:jester:


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## (WLL) (Oct 30, 2006)

Climb020 said:


> Thanks there arbor. I don't see it as generous just trying to help the industry have a more positive look. Too many half @ss guys teach new guys the wrong and unsafe ways. Accidents happen but most happen to be preventable. I get ridiculed by the older guys for following all the safety rules but once you can do it faster then them and are safer, they tend to pipe down very quickly.:jester:


speed comes with knowledge in this line of work


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## (WLL) (Oct 30, 2006)

Jim1NZ said:


> I think a combination of being taught from other professional climbers as well as studying at a training institute would benefit you the most.
> 
> Woodward you seem like a smart bloke, go to an arboriculture school/training institute and get the basics sorted. Be careful about what your learn from other climbers, bad habits are easily picked up.


make all good habits because habits are hard 2 break


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 31, 2006)

Climb020 said:


> I get ridiculed by the older guys for following all the safety rules but once you can do it faster then them and are safer, they tend to pipe down very quickly.:jester:



Haha ridiculous isn't it! Good on ya for showing them how its done, the safe way will ALWAYS be the fastest way in the long run...


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 31, 2006)

(WLL) said:


> make all good habits because habits are hard 2 break



Hey good quote WLL, you should have that as part of your personal message in each post


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## OTG BOSTON (Oct 31, 2006)

jmack said:


> otg you were a grass geek i never woulda guessed yrs?



95-97. Lived at 375 N. Pleasant St., they tore the house down last week.

I actually got out of the golf course stuff because of greens committee politics, now I work for the city..............................


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## treeman82 (Oct 31, 2006)

Whilst I was at the zoo they didn't have to tear down Delta Upsilon's house... the dumb SOB's managed to burn it down themselves.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 1, 2006)

For me it's lots of OJT, then I wanted to learn the science so I started reading books from the library.

Then the internet started taking off and I found Russ Carlson's KnotHole, then the ISA board before I found a "home" here.

I owe a lot to the people who were on the net early on, especially Russ and Scott Cullen. Most of them have went to the ASCA listserv now that the unwashed masses can sign on .

I've taken a few college courses over the years, MATC has a very good progam.

For the individual, it all boils down to what they want to be. Many people start in the industry then find something else they like better.

For the guy who want to be a good treeworker, and bring home a good wage every year, then formal education is not needed. Some classes will help but a lot of it will be forgotten.

If you want to be a real arborist, then a firm grounding in plant science is needed. Undestanding pH, soil triangles, Fe, Mn, Mg....Identifying pests and how to control them will be essential to advancing a career in arboriculture.

I would recomend getting a 2 year degree in organic chem, or soil science or something that easily translates into the green industries.


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## kkottemann (Nov 1, 2006)

I graduated with a BS degree in Forestry from Louisiana State University. I really wanted to go to work for a timber company working on the timber harvesting side. After I graduated I could not find a job. I had a six month job with the nature conservancy doing controlled burns in longleaf stands but when the fire season was over I was out of work. I looked back to the timber companies and no one was interested. I answered an ad for a large private tree service looking for climbers. The hired me gave me 4 weeks of training under an expierienced climber and gave me a crew. At first I did a lot of bucket truck work but as time went on I was climbing everyday. I really loved the work But felt under piad and under appreiciated. I left them and got a job with a major timber company. I was an assistant district forester with them for 2 years but found myself bored to death with the BS of an major company. I kept up the skills doing weekend work and rigging big trees to pull for various loggers when they would get one around a hunting camp or lake ect... Eventually I got enough work to go full time and that is where I am today. A self employeed tree freak. I have always read books, attended seminars and taken continuing education classes geared towards advancing my knowledge of my chosen craft.


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## treeseer (Nov 1, 2006)

"I've been in school for 25 years!"

I've been in college for 40, off and on.  going back spring semester for some independent study. Climbed 2 big trees today, did some writing and some legal work. Balance is good.

Good advice about keeping a balance tween books and the field.


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## timothykamp (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm still in highschool, but I started a firewood business, which is rapidly expanding into an uninsured tree service. Because of insurance, I am extremely selective and only take jobs with no risk (I know, there is no such thing). Most of my jobs are simple 2 or 3 trees down, little or no climbing (I use a harness and my knowledge of rock climbing and all the freeclimbing I did as a kid (A LOT!!)), and trees that cannot (simply too far away) hit powerlines, houses, other trees, etc. 

I am learning from other climbers and takedown crews that I come in contact with. My main goal is safety, and so far I have been successful.


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## treeseer (Nov 2, 2006)

timothy do you want to learn maintenanace, or are you too busy with removals?


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## TheTreeSpyder (Nov 2, 2006)

Q: Did you guys go to school for this??

A: Everyday; hot or cold; uphill both ways - to and from!
For richer or poorer; in sickness and in health


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## underwor (Nov 2, 2006)

Tree Spyder is right. The good thing about teaching is that I am constantly being asked questions that I never thought to ask my self. I do not attend a show, a TCC, or do a job that I don't learn something on, or get a new idea of something that might work better. When you stop learning and thinking is when the trouble starts. If you are new, don't be afraid to ask the older folks, if you have been in this for a while, don't be afraid to ask the young'uns. Everyone has different backgrounds and experiences and we are all teachers, by example as well as by advice.


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## timothykamp (Nov 2, 2006)

treeseer - I really don't know much about maintenance, and right now i am paying off a splitter, a new stihl, and an employee to help split. I am staying busy with removals, but what do you have to tell me about maintenance???


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## Doctor Dave (Nov 3, 2006)

kkottemann said:


> I graduated with a BS degree in Forestry from Louisiana State University. I really wanted to go to work for a timber company working on the timber harvesting side. After I graduated I could not find a job. I had a six month job with the nature conservancy doing controlled burns in longleaf stands but when the fire season was over I was out of work. I looked back to the timber companies and no one was interested. I answered an ad for a large private tree service looking for climbers. The hired me gave me 4 weeks of training under an expierienced climber and gave me a crew. At first I did a lot of bucket truck work but as time went on I was climbing everyday. I really loved the work But felt under piad and under appreiciated. I left them and got a job with a major timber company. I was an assistant district forester with them for 2 years but found myself bored to death with the BS of an major company. I kept up the skills doing weekend work and rigging big trees to pull for various loggers when they would get one around a hunting camp or lake ect... Eventually I got enough work to go full time and that is where I am today. A self employeed tree freak. I have always read books, attended seminars and taken continuing education classes geared towards advancing my knowledge of my chosen craft.




I worked for a prof at LSU back in '87, researching baldcypress that was being eaten up by the fruit tree leaf roller (moth). Only time I did forest research from a bass boat! We went to the swamp near the Achafalaya; let's see...Grand Bayou (Grand Isle?) ring a bell? I learned to read the water better after running the boat 200 yards up on a mudflat. 

Another time, I got a swimming lesson when a big 'gator surfaced just as I was about to jump off the boat as if to tell me: "Hey dumbass Yankee--you see any Cajuns going swimming?!" The sucker was probably about 10 ft. long--I could only see the head, and it was 2 feet from the nostrils to the eyes. Then it sank out of sight.


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## treeseer (Nov 3, 2006)

timothykamp said:


> what do you have to tell me about maintenance???


In the long run, it's a lot more fun, and better job security. Nothing wrong with the firewood biz (I heat my home with wood), tho the earth is getting a bit warmer...


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## jmack (Nov 3, 2006)

Thillmaine said:


> I currently attend SUNY Cobleskill, here in upstate NY with an associates in Landscape Development, and a Bachelors in Plant Science. Included in my curriculum was an aboriculture class, but I mean how much tree related info can you leanr in one semester. I have worked for a tree company for 3 years and combining my horticultural knowledge with practical climbing/removal experience has led me to wheer I am know. i do agree many business owners dont have any formal education related to arboriculture, or horticulture, and still do fine for themselves. Personally, being 21 with an education and climbing experience I feel way ahead of most of the folks my age inthe tree care industry. At the same time, I think that one needs a strong desire to learn in school, combined with practical experience. If I had to choose one or the other, I would go with experience. You can learn all you want from books,but until you do it you arent worth a ???? in my book.


sh*t loads


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## jmack (Nov 3, 2006)

OTG BOSTON said:


> 95-97. Lived at 375 N. Pleasant St., they tore the house down last week.
> 
> I actually got out of the golf course stuff because of greens committee politics, now I work for the city..............................


92-96 stockie


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## jmack (Nov 3, 2006)

OTG BOSTON said:


> 95-97. Lived at 375 N. Pleasant St., they tore the house down last week.
> 
> I actually got out of the golf course stuff because of greens committee politics, now I work for the city..............................


ayuh didya bounce at charlies?


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## JohnH (Nov 4, 2006)

OJT for me


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## booboo (Nov 5, 2006)

I've been lurking on this site for a while, figured this was a good time to register and jump into a thread because I'd wondered if there were any other Stockies on the board. Stockbridge for Landscape Operations - '88 and then UMass LS&R Urban Forestry - '92.

Tuesday night 25 cent wings and 22 oz. balck and tans at Charlies...those were the days!

Ben


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## rebelman (Nov 5, 2006)

Hard Knocks U. I felta thigh.


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## Onelick (Nov 5, 2006)

*Trying to learn*

I'm currently a professional firefighter that has some time to educate myself whenever we don't have any calls. (we currently run about 2000 calls a year, so we are little slow.) I would like to read up some more on arboriculture, what other web sites are there for parttimer's like me to get better educated?
Thanks,
Onelick


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## Tree Machine (Nov 6, 2006)

booboo said:


> I've been lurking on this site for a while, figured this was a good time to register and jump into a thread
> Ben


Welcome to your first thread, booboo!


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## RedlineIt (Nov 6, 2006)

> I would like to read up some more on arboriculture, what other web sites are there for parttimer's like me to get better educated?



Onelick,

You could try Davey.com and then follow their education links.

They have separate courses for employees and non-employees and since I went through the employee course, I can't vouch for the non-employee course, but it might be a start.

My employment experience with Davey was a major disappointment, but their head office has good game at the Davey Institute, alot of the course material I saw was parallel to ISA material, same text and photos in some cases.

I liked the way test and quiz results came straight back, letting the user know where they were strong or weak. It was mostly review for me, but it was very user friendly.

Hope the non-employee course is a good start!


RedlineIt


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## OTG BOSTON (Nov 7, 2006)

jmack said:


> ayuh didya bounce at charlies?



Nope, I was too young! Drank there a few times though

Are you thinking of a big dude with the nickname of Brutus? Not me but I know how to get in touch with him.


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## booboo (Nov 7, 2006)

TM...thanks, ought to be fun to be around here!


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## (WLL) (Nov 7, 2006)

Jim1NZ said:


> Hey good quote WLL, you should have that as part of your personal message in each post


not sure how that works:bang:


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## treeseer (Nov 7, 2006)

Onelick said:


> I'm currently a professional firefighter that has some time to educate myself whenever we don't have any calls. (we currently run about 2000 calls a year, so we are little slow.) I would like to read up some more on arboriculture, what other web sites are there for parttimer's like me to get better educated?
> Thanks,
> Onelick


http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/


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## jmack (Nov 8, 2006)

OTG BOSTON said:


> Nope, I was too young! Drank there a few times though
> 
> Are you thinking of a big dude with the nickname of Brutus? Not me but I know how to get in touch with him.


 yep i ran into him in town a few years back, thats the lad ,is he still with da city? j


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## OTG BOSTON (Nov 9, 2006)

jmack said:


> yep i ran into him in town a few years back, thats the lad ,is he still with da city? j



He was in Cambridge, now in Millis? I think.


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