# What You Should Do If You Get Hurt in the Woods When Alone



## Gypo Logger

Although I'm not an expert on the subject, I just wanted to discuss a few things about it.
First of all, keep your cool and if you still got two legs and a heart beat, you'll probably be ok.
You can lose alot of blood and still live. 
Finding the trail out can be the biggest problem, that's why snow is a good thing as you can sometimes follow your back trail.
When hurt you'll have mega adrenalin, so use that to your advantage and when and if you find help, be chipper and laugh a bit, that will help the first responder to act fast and not freak out.
Saw injuries are mostly just superficial, so keep your cool then too.
Most injuries are not life threatening and those that are will be read about in the news.
Once again, keep your cool and enjoy the adrenalin rush and the warm feeling of the blood.
John


----------



## dancan

Yukonsawman said:


> Although I'm not an expert on the subject, I just wanted to discuss a few things about it.
> First of all, keep your cool ....
> and not freak out....
> Once again, keep your cool ...
> John



Very wise words for any situation involving you or anyone around you .


----------



## whitebutler

nice very nice I say. Here where I'm at we use the panic button by a certain time thats if i or others on the crew don't make it back by a Certain time then it look out here we come a lookin for ya. It's easy for me to set that in motion because I camp out on every job even if its only thirty minutes from home. But thats my way of pulling the crew together to never leave one in the woods alone. The keeping your cool is a must in all things I do and is a hard act to fallow most of the time too.


----------



## logbutcher

Sounding like a righteous SOB, here goes Yukon.

1. Protect yourself as much as possible--use all the *PPE* all the time.

2. For those who haven't been fortunate ( sic ) to have been "in harms way" , understand what *Situational Awareness *means and how to do it. Look it up, it's easy to understand, difficult to do. Know when to quit, when to back away from say, a hanger, or when tired or pi$$ed off.

3. Last year I got recertified in *Wilderness Medicine *taught by a front line Army Medic just back from Iraq. It combines the best of emergency care, combat life saving, and advance first aid when away from nearby help. I was suprised to learn that some older training I got was obsolete, such as CPR, and triage. This training can/will save your own skin.
Look up courses near you.

4. Have basic life saving tools with you--always. Yes Virginia, *duct tape and HD Kotex *will do wonders.


----------



## indiansprings

Carry a first aid kit in the truck or your wood hauler.

For the first time, I bought a first aid kit and but extra large gauze pads and pressure bandages in the truck this year. I got a saw in my upper left thigh when I was about 19 and it scared the chit out of me, nothing serious, was sew up and healed fine. With my oldest son and the hired hand being allowed to cut wood on their own this year, I gave them a good first aid lecture based on the combat lifesaver course and made sure they had the good first aid kit in the truck, including betodine and peroxide.


----------



## Gypo Logger

logbutcher said:


> Sounding like a righteous SOB, here goes Yukon.



Sometimes things are learned the hard way. Lol
Regardless, if others learn from others lessons than we have gotten somewhere.
John


----------



## Rudedog

logbutcher said:


> 4. Have basic life saving tools with you--always. Yes Virginia, *duct tape and HD Kotex *will do wonders.



I second this. I don't have the experience many of you do in the woods but have some experience with wounds. A dressing, tape and Qwik Clot could be lifesavers. I would think that bleeding to death would probably be the most serious issue you could have in the woods and still be conscious/ with it enough to help yourself.


----------



## logbutcher

Rudedog said:


> I second this. I don't have the experience many of you do in the woods but have some experience with *wounds. A dressing, tape and Qwik Clot could be lifesavers. I would think that bleeding to death would probably be the most serious issue you could have in the woods and still be conscious/ with it enough to help yourself*.



:agree2::agree2: That's it !

That Quik Clot powder is standard issue in combat kits and on climbs. Go to your nearest ER, or when you see your local Urologist for your prostate :hmm3grin2orange:. Ask for a few of the "bleed pads" that are exactly like the older HD Kotex pads that are not sold anymore. (They want more slimming looking pads. ) The thick pads are simpler to use when you're alone, and more reliable. BUTT: you've got to know where to use pressure and sometimes, only sometimes, a tourniquet.

FYI Yukon. That so called adrenillin rush will only take you so far, especially when you get up there in years (like most of us Yukon :biggrinbounce2: ). Never count on it. 

*YOU CAN BLEED OUT IN LESS THAN 5 MINUTES !!!!!! *(For those who know, a femoral artery slice, common cut on your left thigh, is the danger. ) That rush won't save you.

Most of us cut alone. Be aware. Use Situational Awareness.

I am dismissed. Glad you made it Yukon.


----------



## Gologit

logbutcher said:


> 3. Last year I got recertified in *Wilderness Medicine *taught by a front line Army Medic just back from Iraq. It combines the best of emergency care, combat life saving, and advance first aid when away from nearby help. I was suprised to learn that some older training I got was obsolete, such as CPR, and triage.



Triage is obsolete? Why? What replaced it? Really curious about this.


----------



## madhatte

I carry a stripped-down first aid kit in my Camelbak, which I have on me at all times in the woods. I have a full first-aid kit in the truck.


----------



## deeker

Backwoods experiences are too long for here, and a great thread by the way.

As a former EMT-I, know how to use the medical/first aid kit.

Be very very very familiar with all in the kit.

The time saved vs the time reading how to use it can mean a good and bad outcome.

Another addition to my jump kit has been "Quick-clot" burns like a #####, but stops bleeding.

I believe it uses silver-nitrate.

Had to take my 92yr old father to the ER today, he fell carrying wood and split his nose open...ten stitches.


Great thread, should be a sticky.


Kevin


----------



## deeker

For head trauma, life threatening or severe blood loss...

A medical helicopter may need to be called.

A GPS.

Flairs.

*Radio/cell phone/satellite phone. AND A CHARGER OR EXTRA BATTERIES.*

And I stress AGAIN know how to use them.


----------



## Gypo Logger

logbutcher said:


> :agree2::agree2: That's it !
> 
> That Quik Clot powder is standard issue in combat kits and on climbs. Go to your nearest ER, or when you see your local Urologist for your prostate :hmm3grin2orange:. Ask for a few of the "bleed pads" that are exactly like the older HD Kotex pads that are not sold anymore. (They want more slimming looking pads. ) The thick pads are simpler to use when you're alone, and more reliable. BUTT: you've got to know where to use pressure and sometimes, only sometimes, a tourniquet.
> 
> FYI Yukon. That so called adrenillin rush will only take you so far, especially when you get up there in years (like most of us Yukon :biggrinbounce2: ). Never count on it.
> 
> *YOU CAN BLEED OUT IN LESS THAN 5 MINUTES !!!!!! *(For those who know, a femoral artery slice, common cut on your left thigh, is the danger. ) That rush won't save you.
> 
> Most of us cut alone. Be aware. Use Situational Awareness.
> 
> I am dismissed. Glad you made it Yukon.



Every situation seems to be different and the credit goes to those who pick us up off the ground.
John


----------



## logbutcher

Gologit said:


> Triage is obsolete? Why? What replaced it? Really curious about this.



Good question. Not Replaced, just redefined. Triage itself is not obsolete, but in a small group survival situation KNOWING WHEN TO SAVE A LIFE, AND WHEN TO NOT TO, WITH LIMITED PERSONNEL AND LIMITED RESOURCES FAR FROM EMT OR ER FACILITIES.

It was an eye opener for us in the class to hear about the medical record of CPR failures for adults. Not good. The discussion of when to let someone go was never done before in my training and experience. Interesting.

True triage in a mass casualty situation with many medical personnel with EMT gear around is not "Wilderness Medicine" . 

Basically Gologit, we cut alone, usually a long way off from help. Don't depend on a cellphone to protect or save you. 

JMNSHO


----------



## whitebutler

YA know on the other hand some of us would save others and would do all we can for them. However there is a small amount that think it just better to leave them there and let them go if you do find them in need of attention. What the heck do we do then? I always thought, Well, who really wants to go back to town and deal with all the crap it might just be better to stay there. Thats not a good attitude to have about it though because for me they always find me.....:chainsawguy:


----------



## madhatte

Just remembered a thing.

Some years ago, I lived in Schuylerville, New York. Three friends and I were getting on the freeway to head south to Albany, when, in the furthest left lane, an accident occurred. One car lost control and pitched to the left into another. The two came to a rest in the median.

We acted quickly. First question: do we know the Good Samaritan Laws in this state? No. Second question: are any of us CURRENTLY carded CPR/First Aid? No. Third question: do any of us have a cell phone to call for help? No. 

We determined from these answers that if we hung around, we would only contribute to the traffic jam already beginning, and could offer no real help. We would be part of the problem, not the solution. Instead, we drove to the next exit and called 911 from the first pay phone we found. 

I've often wondered if this was the right decision.


----------



## deeker

madhatte said:


> Just remembered a thing.
> 
> Some years ago, I lived in Schuylerville, New York. Three friends and I were getting on the freeway to head south to Albany, when, in the furthest left lane, an accident occurred. One car lost control and pitched to the left into another. The two came to a rest in the median.
> 
> We acted quickly. First question: do we know the Good Samaritan Laws in this state? No. Second question: are any of us CURRENTLY carded CPR/First Aid? No. Third question: do any of us have a cell phone to call for help? No.
> 
> We determined from these answers that if we hung around, we would only contribute to the traffic jam already beginning, and could offer no real help. We would be part of the problem, not the solution. Instead, we drove to the next exit and called 911 from the first pay phone we found.
> 
> I've often wondered if this was the right decision.



Good points.

I don't know the current laws that cover the Good Samaritan's.

With the sharks/lawyers that chase ambulances....

nuff said there.

I get stopped by LEO's from time to time...to help before the Ambulance can get there. The cops know me around here. Especially in the wide open space areas, desert and forest.


----------



## madhatte

Well, today I pretty much always carry my CPR/First Aid Cards, a current Red Card, a cell phone, a radio, a GPS, and a first aid kit, so it wouldn't be the same situation. 

I guess what I'm getting at is yet another pitch for "situational awareness".


----------



## ryan_marine

You all are going to think that I am crazy but besides a basic first aid kit I also carry maxi pads and tampons. I know it sounds strange. But a maxi pad will cover a large wound with out a problem and tampons with stuff a puncture wound. I have seen this more times than I care to talk about. It was two of the things I had on me all the time in Afgan and Iraq after I seen what they are capable of. I also carry my cell phone. When I go to an area to work I alway check to see if I have service. If not I do have a gps thing that has an emergency responce button. I have not had to use any of the above but I feel better carring them. 99% of the time I am in the woods I have some one else with me though.

Ray


----------



## Gypo Logger

ryan_marine said:


> You all are going to think that I am crazy but besides a basic first aid kit I also carry maxi pads and tampons. I know it sounds strange. But a maxi pad will cover a large wound with out a problem and tampons with stuff a puncture wound. I have seen this more times than I care to talk about. It was two of the things I had on me all the time in Afgan and Iraq after I seen what they are capable of. I also carry my cell phone. When I go to an area to work I alway check to see if I have service. If not I do have a gps thing that has an emergency responce button. I have not had to use any of the above but I feel better carring them. 99% of the time I am in the woods I have some one else with me though.
> 
> Ray



Good call Ray, there's nothing wrong with packing cotton ponies around for those,'heavy days'.
John


----------



## joesawer

I am thinkin the first thing to do when you get hurt is to get to help asap. Lol

How to do that is any number of ways depending on the situation.


----------



## deeker

madhatte said:


> Well, today I pretty much always carry my CPR/First Aid Cards, a current Red Card, a cell phone, a radio, a GPS, and a first aid kit, so it wouldn't be the same situation.
> 
> I guess what I'm getting at is yet another pitch for "*situational awareness*".



That Sir, applies to everything in life.


----------



## madhatte

Too true, too true!


----------



## Humptulips

Seriously, I think the key word is the last in your thread title,(alone).
Best thing to have if you get hurt in the woods is a partner and he/she should be close enough to know when you are in trouble.

Ok, so I've broke that rule but it's still a good idea.


----------



## ryan_marine

Yukonsawman said:


> Good call Ray, there's nothing wrong with packing cotton ponies around for those,'heavy days'.
> John



John, I can't get the pic out of my mind of you having a maxi on your face to help stop the bleeding. All kidding aside the first time I seen one was in the shoulder of a Marine. He was in Afgan and took a bullet in the shoulder. He had 2 strings hanging out. But lost very little blood due to the quick action of a fellow Marine. Our Corpman said it saved his life due to the likely hood of him bleeding out. 

Ray


----------



## a_lopa

I was with a guy who cut deep into his calf muscle with a 488 shindiawa,I can sure tell you the adrenalin works for a good while but when it wears off there some swearing and cursing!

Try and keep a cool head and like other poster have said PPE!


----------



## 1999HarleyRN

With almost 25 years experience in emergency medicine, both in and out of the hospital, after wear your PPE probably the most import thing I can add is stay calm. Whether you are the victim or the rescuer, panic will not help anybody. I can't count the times I've had to tell a partner on the rig, or another nurse in the hospital, calm the **** down. Once they do, the job gets done. Let's all try to keep it safe so we don't need to use our first aid kits, cell phones, gps, helicopters, etc in the first place.


----------



## logbutcher

whitebutler said:


> YA know on the other hand some of us would save others and would do all we can for them. However there is a small amount that think it just better to leave them there and let them go if you do find them in need of attention. What the heck do we do then? I always thought, Well, who really wants to go back to town and deal with all the crap it might just be better to stay there. Thats not a good attitude to have about it though because for me they always find me.....:chainsawguy:



No, and no. 

The "attitude" is to do what you can, with what you have, as much as you can, and for who you can save IN the particular situation. Perhaps if you have not been there it's hard to understand. It is the only attitude in a situation far from assistance, you alone with others, multiple injuries. Think. It's what we were trained for. This is not a "good samaritan on the freeway" thing. 

This not a "going back to town". This is "there is no town". It is life often on the edge.

JMNSHO


----------



## hammerlogging

ryan_marine said:


> You all are going to think that I am crazy but besides a basic first aid kit I also carry maxi pads and tampons. I know it sounds strange. But a maxi pad will cover a large wound with out a problem and tampons with stuff a puncture wound. I have seen this more times than I care to talk about. It was two of the things I had on me all the time in Afgan and Iraq after I seen what they are capable of. I also carry my cell phone. When I go to an area to work I alway check to see if I have service. If not I do have a gps thing that has an emergency responce button. I have not had to use any of the above but I feel better carring them. 99% of the time I am in the woods I have some one else with me though.
> 
> Ray



Tampons are great for big wounds, true, BUT, they have other secondary uses as well.

Introducing, the MANPON.

This technique was developed by a faller I worked with, lets say his diet consisted of beer and questionable other intake.

Another day of the sharts (you guessed it) sick of wiping his ass, insert the manpon (I trust it was inserted laterally and not vertically, but whatever floats your boat)

He was right back to falling timber. Too bad I couldn't cut #### from laughing so hard about his solution.


----------



## deeker

Thanks to Darin for making this thread a "Sticky"!!!


----------



## holzspalter

Before heading to the woods, I be sure to have my belt on and the hankerchef (sweatban in summer, snotrag in winter) in the pocket. Good tools to have from common clothing in time of need.


----------



## logbutcher

Next subject: "Tampons Use For Sucking Chest Wounds".:hmm3grin2orange:

After that, sizing considerations, absorbancy, color (colour). 

And for those who know: "sticky" is what happens when that Kotex, tampon, or whatever absorbs blood. Thought you'd like to know.

This sticky could go for years.....................


----------



## purdyite

I always heard that if you are working, hiking, climbing, etc. in the woods or remote areas, take 3 people. That way if the first one gets hurt, the second stays to help while the third goes for help. I am thinking, crap, just leave that first guy home...:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## TimberFaller660

I think your best bet would be not go into the woods alone. Even if you have to give a friend $50 to carry your saw gas aurond & keep a cell handy. I think that be $50 well spent if ya got hurt.


----------



## Gypo Logger

TimberFaller660 said:


> I think your best bet would be not go into the woods alone. Even if you have to give a friend $50 to carry your saw gas aurond & keep a cell handy. I think that be $50 well spent if ya got hurt.


 That makes good sense TF, but if a faller can go 25 years with no hardhat, chaps or backup buddy system, does it justify having one?.
I think so, accidents are rare and few and far between, but we take our chances and there is nothing wrong with 'safety.'
Danger should be foremost in the mind, but shouldn't clutter vision either.
John


----------



## joesawer

TimberFaller660 said:


> I think your best bet would be not go into the woods alone. Even if you have to give a friend $50 to carry your saw gas aurond & keep a cell handy. I think that be $50 well spent if ya got hurt.



In my experience if I waited until there was someone available for $50, Starvation would be a much bigger danger.
And there have been some days when I did not clear $50. And a $50/day extra expense would soon eat deep into what little profit is left in this business, so once again starvation is a clear and present danger.


----------



## Gypo Logger

joesawer said:


> In my experience if I waited until there was someone available for $50, Starvation would be a much bigger danger.
> And there have been some days when I did not clear $50. And a $50/day extra expense would soon eat deep into what little profit is left in this business, so once again starvation is a clear and present danger.


 Joe, it still doesn't take away from the fact that if we had a hot girl sitting in our truck while we did our thing in the bush, that we wouldn't be all that much safer.
I think girls in the bush reduce the danger factor by 98%.
John


----------



## joesawer

Yukonsawman said:


> Joe, it still doesn't take away from the fact that if we had a hot girl sitting in our truck while we did our thing in the bush, that we wouldn't be all that much safer.
> I think girls in the bush reduce the danger factor by 98%.
> John



I had a time and place where that I had a really HOT 21 year old girl for a fire watch that followed me for miles up and down steep mountains.
She was with me when I got clobbered in the hard hat. I got knocked out and knocked down the mountain a little ways.
I woke up with my saw laying on my arm still running. I had to feel of my head to see if my brains where all still on the inside, so that i would know if I needed to blow my whistle or not.
She was the only person around but had no idea that anything was wrong until I came staggering up with my busted hard hat and glasses. The glasses where supposedly unbreakable titanium.
She had not been working with me long then and she did get much better and more helpful as she gained a little experience.
I was able to work the next day with another hard hat and set of glasses. With out a hard hat I would have been seriously messed up.

I remember sitting on the side of the mountain watching her work her way across a steep piece of ground and thinkin it was too good to last. Lol


----------



## 056 kid

Un-breakable LOL. yea right, sure!!

Best thing is to not be in the woods alone!!

Im lucky so far that my worst has been just a good KO. Wake up seeing white, but I wasent alone. . . Skidder man was there, asking all kinds of bothersome questions. . .


----------



## Gypo Logger

Sometimes girls in the bush can throw you off your game, but not too often.
Once I was in a new bush and the girl I was with asked me to take her over the winch/brush gaurd of the truck.
Shortly thereafter while recovering, the woodlot owner came jogging thru and asked me, 'How many loads I'd taken out.' Lol
John


----------



## joesawer

Yukonsawman said:


> Sometimes girls in the bush can throw you off your game, but not too often.
> Once I was in a new bush and the girl I was with asked me to take her over the winch/brush gaurd of the truck.
> Shortly thereafter while recovering, the woodlot owner came jogging thru and asked me, 'How many loads I'd taken out.' Lol
> John





Lol!
That calls for a whole different kind of PPE!


----------



## Gypo Logger

Anyway, at the cost or derailing, when in the bush, just be a law unto yourself and you will be safe, Take your time and use a fast saw.
John


----------



## TimberFaller660

joesawer said:


> In my experience if I waited until there was someone available for $50, Starvation would be a much bigger danger.
> And there have been some days when I did not clear $50. And a $50/day extra expense would soon eat deep into what little profit is left in this business, so once again starvation is a clear and present danger.



I understand where your coming from & i agree 100% I was just making a suggestion. Just be something in mind if someone ever did have a situation where they was gonna be in the woods alone


----------



## WoodyWoodsWood

*911*

I never go alone! I always take my dog with me. And since he cant drive a standard I trained him to dial 911 in case I get hurt.


----------



## logbutcher

WoodyWoodsWood said:


> I never go alone! I always take my dog with me. And since he cant drive a standard I trained him to dial 911 in case I get hurt.



Your CHIUAUA can do that Woody ? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## pioneerguy600

My dog saved my life once, ..I know very well I would not be here today if it were not for him, you are very lucky indeed if you ever have one good dog in your life.

Pioneerguy600


----------



## RandyMac

Chihuahuas can do anything.


----------



## Gypo Logger

pioneerguy600 said:


> My dog saved my life once, ..I know very well I would not be here today if it were not for him, you are very lucky indeed if you ever have one good dog in your life.
> 
> Pioneerguy600



Jerry, how did this happen? I understand though how a dog can make you safer while working. The little dog I have now, hates saws, but keeps away grizzlies.
John


----------



## Greenwedge

*Risky business*

It should never be a situation to consider. If you don't have a partner go home. If a partner is not an option find a different job. If your stubborn and take the risk and get whacked enjoy the pain and suffering your dealt for you earned it!


----------



## Gologit

Greenwedge said:


> It should never be a situation to consider. If you don't have a partner go home. If a partner is not an option find a different job. If your stubborn and take the risk and get whacked enjoy the pain and suffering your dealt for you earned it!



Yup.


----------



## joesawer

Greenwedge said:


> It should never be a situation to consider. If you don't have a partner go home. If a partner is not an option find a different job. If your stubborn and take the risk and get whacked enjoy the pain and suffering your dealt for you earned it!



And that is the official story.
The first rule of logging is never leave anyone alone!
The second rule of logging is see rule number one!


----------



## pioneerguy600

Yukonsawman said:


> Jerry, how did this happen? I understand though how a dog can make you safer while working. The little dog I have now, hates saws, but keeps away grizzlies.
> John



Jack is certainly fearless, it may get him killed one day but lets hope not. 
My yellow collie dog and I were inseperable growing up, we travelled the backwoods together all year round. One winter we both hiked back into one of our backcountry camps in mid January, stayed safe and snug overnight in the ole log camp. Next morning it was -22F and the wind was kicking up a bit but not really bad for travelling so we set out for home by 10:30, five hours should take us home, lakes frozen over hard, hard crust on the snow with just a little loose stuff blowing about a bit. Walking out through the woods was fairly easy, crossing the many lakes was quite cold,by 2:30 it started snowing and it really was coming down by 3 o`clock, whiteout in the open areas and the deepening snow slowed our progress. We made it to the tidal estuary, salt water, by 3:45, the tide was at a spring tide high which was very bad for getting on the ice. There was 2-3 feet of water over the ice close to shore, a 12-20 foot space of water between shore and the floating ice out on the salt water blocked our path. Down the shore a bit there was a little closer gap, maybe 10 feet, the shore there was cliff like,steep. I cut a tree up on the cliff side and limbed it, then hefted it up and with a big toss I propelled it outward to bridge the gap, a durn pin knot caught my cuff and pulled me along with the tree off the cliff. I hit the ice head first and went entirely through between the floating clumpers.I came to with my dog holding my head above water, he had the hood of my coat in his teeth, there was a large red stain on the ice in front of me but I paid it no mind. With my dogs help I pulled myself out of the water and onto the floating ice of the estuary. I knew this was," bad", the wind was now blowing 40-45 mph Northwest, I could not see more than 50' due to whiteout, swirling snow,. It was 2.5 miles to home and not really easy going, my dog was just looking at me for some direction on what to do, he looked me right in the eye, tilting his head left to right with ears straight up, I said," home boy", and he started off not looking back for the firts couple of hundred feet, then he would take a glance back every so often to see if I was following. We crossed 2 miles of open on the ice, could barely see 20' but after 45 mins there was the treeline on my right, we were 50' from where the path to home met the ice, I managed to get off the ice to the trees with just getting one foot wetter. At this point my outer jacket and top shirt were frozen rock hard, my black wool Murphys also rock hard but my Stanfields were the only thing not yet frozen. The snow was really piled into the woods on this side of the river but my dog would throw himself forward 20' at a time and come back to tug at me to keep me going, we had to climb up 300' of a 30-40 deg angle hill to get to the top, I pulled myself up by grasping small trees and branches, my dog helping all the way. By 4:30 I had topped the hill, a couple of hundred yards more and I was headed down hill where i fell, slid and stumbled down to the road. All I had to do was make it 1/4 mile more and I would be home, that is where I thought I hit the wall, but I would not allow myself to stop, guess I must have stumbled that 1/4 mile to the house but I really can`t rember that too well. I remember clearly making it to the door but my hands could not grip the door knob, and I must have made enough racket that my dad heard me and came to the door, the look on his face told me everything at a glance. He was a war vet and had seen many horrible sights during fighting but was actually shocked to see me. I fell inward on the floor of the porch and dad tried to get my coat off but immediately realised that everything on me was frozen rock hard. He pulled me into the bathroom like skidding a seal and with my limited help rolled me into the bathtub while running hot water into the tub to thaw my clothes. I rember seeing riverlets of frozen blood on the front of my High Artic Survival coat and the sting of cuts told me I had some facial damage. After 4-5 mins we started to get my coat and the rest of my clothes off a little at a time as the hot water thawed the ice. When I finally got to see myself through all the mess on my face I shocked myself at first but a lot of it was just frozen/dried blood and once it washed off there was only 5 cuts that probably needed stiches, we glued it up with pine pitch instead. Less than 2 hours after making it home I was eating a meal at the table, my dog ate the same meal at my side.

Pioneerguy600


----------



## joesawer

Dang you can't beat a good dog.


----------



## pioneerguy600

joesawer said:


> Dang you can't beat a good dog.


 
That same dog pulled my little brother out from an icewater filled road culvert, he was just under 4 years old and fell in on the upstream side, the water pulled him and he got stuck. The old culvert was made of spiked together 6X6`s and he got his snowsuit caught on a rusty spike. The dog dove in immediately and resurfaced with my brother, I grabbed him by the hood of his snowsuit and with the help of my dog we pulled him out, I swept him up in my arms and ran for home with the dog running ahead and barking loudly to alert our parents. My brother had swallowed some water but he coughed most of it up then threw up on me, I could not have been happier.

Pioneerguy600


----------



## Karl Robbers

In Australia it would be HIGHLY illegal for any faller to work alone and there would be hell to pay if anyone were caught on a logging coupe without hard hat, high viz gear steel cap safety boots and proper hearing and eye protection.
All chainsaw operators must wear chaps or cutproof trousers and carry a wound dressing on their belt as well as being trained in advanced first aid.
Yes we do still injure and kill a few, but there are many alive and well because of such rules. The forest is a hostile environment that must never be underestimated.
Good fortune to all and stay safe.


----------



## joesawer

Karl Robbers said:


> In Australia it would be HIGHLY illegal for any faller to work alone and there would be hell to pay if anyone were caught on a logging coupe without hard hat, high viz gear steel cap safety boots and proper hearing and eye protection.
> All chainsaw operators must wear chaps or cutproof trousers and carry a wound dressing on their belt as well as being trained in advanced first aid.
> Yes we do still injure and kill a few, but there are many alive and well because of such rules. The forest is a hostile environment that must never be underestimated.
> Good fortune to all and stay safe.


 


Does that apply for the untrained Asian imported labor also.
I am very interested in these so called cutproof trousers. 
I consider proper training much more vital than steal to shoes or cut proof trousers.
I see some poor technique being taught as the best way to do things pretty often.


----------



## Karl Robbers

What imported Asian labour would that be? I know they are small but I think I would have noticed them.:hmm3grin2orange:
Do you not have trousers that incorporate the same material as protective chaps have in them.
I agree that poor training and procedures have much to answer for hence the reason that as I already detailed certain PPE and training is compulsory on our logging coupes. Certainly not trying to get into an argument, simply putting forward a portrait of the way things are done in a country other than the USA.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Chihuahuas can do anything.


 
I see your Chihuahua and raise you two Pomeranians...I use 'em for skidders. They don't eat as much as Clydesdales. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## joesawer

Karl Robbers said:


> What imported Asian labour would that be? I know they are small but I think I would have noticed them.:hmm3grin2orange:
> Do you not have trousers that incorporate the same material as protective chaps have in them.
> I agree that poor training and procedures have much to answer for hence the reason that as I already detailed certain PPE and training is compulsory on our logging coupes. Certainly not trying to get into an argument, simply putting forward a portrait of the way things are done in a country other than the USA.


 

I am not trying to promote anger or useless arguing.
I have read several discussions about low cost pacific Asian labor in Australian timber industry having a terrible safety record. 
I contend it is not the governments duty, obligation, privilege, or mandate or whatever you want to call it to be involved in what I where to work. 
How can someone in a different time and place possibly be qualified to decide what is the safest or what is an acceptable risk.
There is no way to wear enough safety equipment to remove all risk in life.
The only way to ensure some ones safety is to imprison them in a padded cell, and I for one will resist sacrificing liberty for safety.


----------



## tramp bushler

*hey Yukon : good t see ya still on here.*

I have some experience with getting hurt in th brush. However ; th best form of first aid is t not get hurt in th first place. I work alone sometimes over a mile from anyone. My first. concern is not. Freezing to death . And then. Not bleeding out . Accidents do happen . Every one gets hurt , but most all the replies were good .


----------



## tramp bushler

*dogs are a lifesaver , thats for sure !*



pioneerguy600 said:


> That same dog pulled my little brother out from an icewater filled road culvert, he was just under 4 years old and fell in on the upstream side, the water pulled him and he got stuck. The old culvert was made of spiked together 6X6`s and he got his snowsuit caught on a rusty spike. The dog dove in immediately and resurfaced with my brother, I grabbed him by the hood of his snowsuit and with the help of my dog we pulled him out, I swept him up in my arms and ran for home with the dog running ahead and barking loudly to alert our parents. My brother had swallowed some water but he coughed most of it up then threw up on me, I could not have been happier.
> 
> Pioneerguy600


 
The dog I have now has saV ed m/y wife and I from 4 maulings that we know of . He also led me out of th brush one time when I was falling down exguasted and couldn 't find my way oto my trail .


----------



## Gypo Logger

All good post fellas. 
Another thing I can think of to do after getting wacked, is to thank those that helped, whether it was the first reponder, abulance, dogs, nurses or doctors.
Regardless, thank yourself for maying it thru, 'yet another one'. Lol
John


----------



## teatersroad

dieing is always an option. cool head is top advice, not hard to get some first responder training so you might have an idea what some symptoms mean. First Aid kit - including an epi-pen, and some sort of comms. if you are in proximity to help. Also having an idea where you are, be it place name. lat-long, T;R;S;.

I was alone and pinned under 900lbs of atv (had a water tank on it). Uninjured but trapped, vhf radio was my link to help.


----------



## Gypo Logger

teatersroad said:


> dieing is always an option. cool head is top advice, not hard to get some first responder training so you might have an idea what some symptoms mean. First Aid kit - including an epi-pen, and some sort of comms. if you are in proximity to help. Also having an idea where you are, be it place name. lat-long, T;R;S;.
> 
> I was alone and pinned under 900lbs of atv (had a water tank on it). Uninjured but trapped, vhf radio was my link to help.


 
They say that ATV's are more dangerous than snowmobiles, but I think atv's are safer.

How long was it before you got help and what damage was done?

John


----------



## Saw Bones

Yukonsawman said:


> Although I'm not an expert on the subject, I just wanted to discuss a few things about it.
> First of all, keep your cool and if you still got two legs and a heart beat, you'll probably be ok.
> You can lose alot of blood and still live.
> Finding the trail out can be the biggest problem, that's why snow is a good thing as you can sometimes follow your back trail.
> When hurt you'll have mega adrenalin, so use that to your advantage and when and if you find help, be chipper and laugh a bit, that will help the first responder to act fast and not freak out.
> Saw injuries are mostly just superficial, so keep your cool then too.
> Most injuries are not life threatening and those that are will be read about in the news.
> Once again, keep your cool and enjoy the adrenalin rush and the warm feeling of the blood.
> John



Basic Survival

1. Have a GPS, and some sort of communication. (Remember that electronic equipment can fail) Have a good general idea of where you are, and carry a compass as a back up.
2. Use your head. Avoid injury. Use your PPE, but remember that PPE is not the end all beat all. It is a last line of defenese after you have made a critical error due to lack of attention. (That happens to every one from time to time)
3. Some one should know where you are going, and when you should be back.
4. Carry first aid equipment, Water, and something to start a fire. Also a whistle to attract attention is not a bad idea.
5. To take a line from "The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy" "DON'T PANIC"


----------



## 046

excellent thread!!! 

wear that PPE ... almost no one around here (Tulsa), except me wears it. 
in the last 10+ years, I've only seen 1-2 other persons wear chaps while cutting with a chainsaw.


----------



## dwraisor

Hey all good thread, lots of good advice. I have an old(er) friend my fathers age, and he talks about his mom using sugar as a blood clot agent, he talks about how he cut his hand as a child and his mom filled the cut w/ sugar. Not that anyone would back a bag of it into the woods


----------



## Stihl Rules

046 said:


> excellent thread!!!
> 
> wear that PPE ... almost no one around here (Tulsa), except me wears it.
> in the last 10+ years, I've only seen 1-2 other persons wear chaps while cutting with a chainsaw.


 
are all chaps about the same? I really do need to invest in them. And try to never be alone.


----------



## Aaron441

dwraisor said:


> and he talks about his mom using sugar as a blood clot agent, he talks about how he cut his hand as a child and his mom filled the cut w/ sugar.


 
Try superglue instead, just glue the cut closed. It works a lot better than a bandaid, and it will stick even if the skin is dirty, oily or sweaty.


----------



## MountainCutter

*Tree cutter first aid Kit Video*

I found a guy on youtube that is logging his own land and building an off grid homestead. His name is Wranglerstar and he is documenting his project on youtube. I think he used to be a fireman paramedic. Here is a link to his video on the first aid kit for loggers YouTube - ‪Timber Fallers Tool Kit Off-grid Homestead Project Wranglerstar‬&rlm; I really like his videos. He is doing some cool projects

MC


----------



## Rounder

Wasn't quite alone..........but carry a ####### wistle with you. Help will get there quicker.


----------



## promac850

Gypo Logger said:


> They say that ATV's are more dangerous than snowmobiles, but I think atv's are safer.
> 
> How long was it before you got help and what damage was done?
> 
> John


 
I beg to differ on snowmobiles.

ATV's ride much higher, and the center of gravity is about six inches to a foot higher than a snowmobile's c fo g. Also, more modern snowmobiles have the stabilizer bar for the front suspension, greatly reducing the chance of rollover.

My personal testimony regarding an accident on my 1998 MX-Z 440F...

I was trail riding in the country around our area with my pops, he was riding about two feet staggered to the left of me... I was only slightly over to the right... it was dark out, and we were traveling slower than normal (about 45-50 mph) through a field near an apple orchard...

Obviously, better headlights would be beneficial in the pitch dark of winter. I hit a rock that juts about 1 foot out of the ground, and the sled literally was on the edge of the left ski... I shot off of the sled (yes, I have a good grip on the bars, but jeez, I was torn away from the sled on this impact) about 20 some feet to the left and slid about 10 feet forward. If I didn't have a helmet, my neck probably would be broken because of the angle my head would be reaching before it would hit the ground... that extra 2" thickness of the helmet probably saved me. Snow pack wasn't hard, it's just the angle that would've ####ed me up.

Talk about surprising and sudden impact... jiminy ####ing christmas... 

I got up expecting the Ski-Doo to be upside down and smashed up, but when I looked ahead, I saw it about 200 feet away, rear taillight glowing. I am glad I don't use the tether, I probably would never have found the thing, it was so dark out. I ran off, hopped on, and rode off. Tethers, IMHO, are for those real cold days where the throttle icing and sticking open is a concern, or if you are racing the sled in snocross or the like. 

The only damage sustained by the 440 was the right plastic ski now has a groove that tapers from about 3/8" wide by 1/4" deep to nonexistent, in the area of the tip where it does not normally contact the snowpack.

Moral of the story... be careful. Never know what will happen, and safety gear will pay for itself, usually numerous times over.


----------



## promac850

mtsamloggit said:


> Wasn't quite alone..........but carry a ####### wistle with you. Help will get there quicker.


 
Pic of one? I think I needs to buy one. You know, for when the fecal matter meets the spinning blades of an airflow improving device when I'm cutting firewood or whatnot.


----------



## slowp

promac610 said:


> Pic of one? I think I needs to buy one. You know, for when the fecal matter meets the spinning blades of an airflow improving device when I'm cutting firewood or whatnot.



A whistle. Like referees blow. If falling, you pin it up on your suspenders or hook it there so if your arms are pinned you can maybe reach it without and tweet it. 

The FS gave us whistles. At that time, radio and phone coverage was bad so the joke was, if you can't get through on the radio, blow the whistle for help.


----------



## RandyMac

I still have the brass one my Dad gave me, he said you might not have the breath to yell, but you can always make noise with a whistle.


----------



## promac850

RandyMac said:


> I still have the brass one my Dad gave me, he said you might not have the breath to yell, but you can always make noise with a whistle.


 
Has anyone heard of a Boatswain's whistle? It has a metal ball, and is press fitted into a tube assembly. It has been claimed that you can hear it from miles away. Been thinking about buying one. Maybe to use as an alert when the zombies come...

Yes, a whistle can take a very diminutive amount of air and make a heck of a lot of noise... smart pops. 

I used to annoy the piss out of my brother by blowing a whistle while standing right next to him...  He hated it when I did that, especially inside the house... :jester: He got mad enough to snatch from me, and break the little plastic referee whistle that I was disturbing the peace with... :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## slowp

The safety whistle needs to be easy to blow in case of a chest crushing injury (heaven forbid) , and loud. 
Don't need no bosun's signals. That's what talkie tooters do.


----------



## RiverRat2

ryan_marine said:


> You all are going to think that I am crazy but besides a basic first aid kit I also carry maxi pads and tampons. I know it sounds strange. But a maxi pad will cover a large wound with out a problem and tampons with stuff a puncture wound. I have seen this more times than I care to talk about. It was two of the things I had on me all the time in Afgan and Iraq after I seen what they are capable of. I also carry my cell phone. When I go to an area to work I alway check to see if I have service. If not I do have a gps thing that has an emergency responce button. I have not had to use any of the above but I feel better carring them. 99% of the time I am in the woods I have some one else with me though.
> 
> Ray



First and foremost,,,,Thank you for your service to our country,,, My son just got out of the Corp last august, be a year next month,, 2 tours in Iraq,,, he saw the tampons used a couple of times,,, He said it wasnt pretty but they worked very well,,,,


----------



## k5alive

i unfortunatly have been cut when alone but in my camelbak i carry stitches maxis' small peroxide and ducktape, i was unlucky to have to use it but it was defenatly replaced, it can be a 2 hour ride to the hospital at time over here everyone on our site has a little something.


----------



## Hillbilly Rick

Great thread, I'm the only person I've seen with PPE on, other than maybe eye protection. I have an orange hardhat, glasses and ear plugs and muffs, gloves and steel toed boots. I want full wrap chaps or the pants but about all I'm makin' is goin' in the fuel tank of my truck. There is no first aid kit, cell phones don't work out here and I doubt anyone would hear or pay attention to a whistle, unless the co-worker heard it.
I think I'll get a couple of good whistles and make up a first aid kit,maxis, tampons and duct tape.
One big problem is the skidder the guy left us to use has no seat belt. After having it on 2 wheels more than once, it is a serious concern. The steering wheel is just 3/8" steel with the plastic grip broken off, not much to hang on to. On these steep grades you try to go straight up and down but it's not always possible. Then rocks get pulled up, ground sinks or you have to turn around. This is the first time I've used a skidder and don't know what it should have for a restraint, I'd think a six point harness.


----------



## coastalfaller

Great points. The whistle also needs to be attached to your suspenders high enough that you can simply turn your head to blow in it. AAANNNNDDDDD you always need to make sure that you're listening for your partner and vice versa! I realize this thread is about what to do on your own, but I get the sense that more often than not this just isn't happening. Hand held radios are much better, but whistles are still essential. My guys always make a plan in the morning about who their listening for. Shut the saw off and listen. At the minimum, every tank, but myself and my guys do it multiple times a tank. Could mean the difference for a guy's life. And if it's ever found that a guy isn't listening for his partner, well, lets just say that's usually not a good scene.


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Great points. The whistle also needs to be attached to your suspenders high enough that you can simply turn your head to blow in it. AAANNNNDDDDD you always need to make sure that you're listening for your partner and vice versa! I realize this thread is about what to do on your own, but I get the sense that more often than not this just isn't happening. Hand held radios are much better, but whistles are still essential. My guys always make a plan in the morning about who their listening for. Shut the saw off and listen. At the minimum, every tank, but myself and my guys do it multiple times a tank. Could mean the difference for a guy's life. And if it's ever found that a guy isn't listening for his partner, well, lets just say that's usually not a good scene.



Well said.


----------



## springboard

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the "SPOT" device. Because of the economic situation I have to do most of the falling by myself. I carry the SPOT device and a whistle. I wear leg protection now, but didn't for 25 years and only took a few stitches.


----------



## tramp bushler

I carry my phone , a large revolver and my whistle.. When working alone . When cutting on a crew sometimes they issue radios which I wear on a chest pack . But I always wear a whistle . . 

I wish I could find the Acme Thunder whistles I used to get from Bailey's in the early 80s . They were LOUD and they always worked .


----------



## tramp bushler

Hillbilly : if the skidder is old enough that the wheel has lost its coating . The poor old thing needs to be treated easy . Go slower . I havn't seen a restraint in a skidder in a long time . . Skidders get used on ground that should be tower or skidder logged . That may not be an option for your crew. What skidder is it . Got any pics ??????? Pics are great . Really like :kidder pics . 

Mountain Logger skidders had a pretty impressive harness for the operator


----------



## Greenwedge

*Hypocrisy*



Greenwedge said:


> It should never be a situation to consider. If you don't have a partner go home. If a partner is not an option find a different job. If your stubborn and take the risk and get whacked enjoy the pain and suffering your dealt for you earned it!



Just wanted to admit and document my hypocrisy. It was a while ago that I made this post, and recently I began logging for myself. I opted to cut costs by not hiring help in my startup and working ridiculous hours. I did have someone to check on me, but it was kind of one of those deals where if my wife called them out of concern because it was dark and I was not home, they would come out and check on me........Every time my dad showed up to see me skidding logs at night and bucking tree lengths under artificial light he would curse me for my stupidity, and swear that if I was that dumb he would no longer concern himself with my safety.....poor old feller kept coming out to the job and cursing me though! The whole time I was working alone out there the memory of this post that I made would flash at me, and have been wanting to confront it for some time. What I have learned from this is that one should always look at all angles before voicing your opinion. I was just looking at this subject from one point of view......one of a hired cutter, not from a startup and or struggling self employed logger. I still stand behind my original post (if id a got whacked out there by myself id a only had myself to blame) but would have worded it differently. Sometimes you just find yourself in the situation, "Hire someone and go broke, or do it yourself and make a little." The financial situations we are in determine the choices we make, and I do respect the risk taker, although, if you get caught in the bite..........Enjoy the misery!


----------



## tramp bushler

Well , thanks for your forthrightness . . Your gainin oner . . Where is your cell phone . .????????

I keep in touch with my wife thruout the day. Eventho she is 25 miles away she has an idea something went wrong if I don't check in on time . I used to have her cuttersit / bear watch in Southeast for me . As she knows how deadly falling and logging are she can deal with it as she prays LOTS !! 
I woyld rather have her praying for me than to have an emt team and a critical care center on the landing . .

Communication is good . Gives me something to look fwd to on 1st and 2 nd lunch . Makes home time more peacefull I've found . Plus she has had to come rescue me a few times when the truck stoppedgoing home that day . When its cold ya don't have much time for mistakes or breakdowns when your drenched with sweat and dog tired .


----------



## Greenwedge

Your welcome and thanks. They still do not have cell service in Weippe Idaho unless you are standing in just the right spot.......I'm never standing in the right spot!!!!lol


----------



## tramp bushler

There is a Comms site right above me . I switched carriers to the one with the best coverage in our area . Helps stay intouch with new customers . Some seriously convoluted subdevisions . I figured all of downsouth would be a blanket of coverage . Guess not . 

Cb radios work ?


----------



## perchhauler

I always work alone and am just mending from a broken leg... March 23rd was working on my job in Va., camped 4 hours from home with team of horses and my rottie.. Was planning on heading home that evening for the weekend after log truck got loaded... Was cutting in the mornin and got bit by a 4-5"ironwood under pressure and there I layed with both bones broke off lower left leg... Thank God had cell service, called landowner n told him where on his 175 acres I was laying he headed out on his gator and called rescue team.. Then I called my girl friend at work here in Pa. she then contacted my family, then called people where I pasture boarded my horses on weekends to come get my team.. The landowner loves my dog so gave him key to my camper and he kept him til the next evening when I was released and headed home to Pa............. May 09' here in Pa. was felling on a job one evening tripped before could hit the switch or brake and couldnt get the saw out away from me and my arm came down on the bar, yep hit an artery and was covered in blood before I got on my feet.. No cell service, was up in the middle of nowhere only 200 yards from my truck so didnt have my pack on, no rags.. Took my noze rag from my back pocket held my arm up with pressure started walking for the truck thinking keep your heart rate down.. Got to truck drove down to the landowners house with my elbow and realized when I got into their driveway the blood was stopped thank God again!!


----------



## North Star

Great Thread! When I'm line cutting on a crew, each cutter has a radio, GPS, map, 1st aid kit, whistle, PPE. I also carry flares, a multi-tool & a knife. Each cutter is usually 100m from the next one, so we check in on the radio every time we shut off to gas up or chain the line. If I'm claim staking, I'll be working alone but anywhere from 400m to 2km from the other stakers on the crew. When staking, I can carry more weight in my bag so I bring extra food. We always have our days planned ahead (who's meeting up with who and what route out of the bush).


----------



## james huffaker

*Blow Out Kits*

Gents;

My first post. Prefaced by, I'm not a logger.

A blow out kit, is familiar to anyone that has recently served in the military (Thank you!), and it's use is taught to everyone. It is designed to treat the three treatable injuries that can kill you before help can reach you. They are; massive extremity bleeding, tension pneumo thorax, and airway compromise.

These kits usually consist of pre made/purpose built tourniquet(s), a battle dressing (or 2), wound packing material (Kerlix), hemostatic agent of some kind, a nasopharingeal airway (that fits you), duck tape, gloves and a 14g (or 12 or 10g) x 3 1/2" angiocath (to vent a tension pneumo thorax). More can be added, but this covers the basics.

Sounds like rocket science, but, how to use the contents can be learned in a day. You need to be familiar with the contents prior to use, practice.

I read a story of a logger that got cut by his saw. Coms was available, and help (EMS, helo) was dispatched, but street protocols don't necessarily work in the back country. It was a large operation and chain of command/egos confused things. In the end, the guy bled out and died.

I wasn't there, but as an outsider looking in, a tourniquet might have saved him. This is about self aid/buddy aid.

Respectfully submitted.

Regards, Jim

ETA: To this, add the whistle (Fox-40), aluminized blanket/space blanket, chem light sticks, those air activated hot packs, water/food, etc.


----------



## knothole

I'm not a pro. I do most of my work alone. I WILL be putting myself a medi kit together! 

> Make sure someone knows where you're going and when you'll be back. Leave a note at the house before you leave.

> Wear your f****** PPE

> Always use common sense and keep your head on a swivel in the woods. 

Tons of useful and life saving suggestions here.


----------



## MAINE GUIDE

*safety in the woods*

The best easiest thing you should Always do is to park your truck heading out. That way you won't have to turn around in a tight space hurt. Simple I know but...


----------



## 2dogs

MAINE GUIDE said:


> The best easiest thing you should Always do is to park your truck heading out. That way you won't have to turn around in a tight space hurt. Simple I know but...



Good advice.


----------



## whitebutler

This was me on the 16th of September 2013. I don't know what happened except for the fact I don't fit in a stokes and was able to get up and walk around with help while we waited for the helicopter. If I know one thing for sure I won't cut that tree again.


----------



## james huffaker

Sir: Glad your OK. Heal up quick.


----------



## whitebutler

I will be cutting again soon just have a little numbness in thumbs. I had a bit of numbness before so what the heck might as well grab a saw and go for it!


----------



## bigv

Couple Comments, To Reiterate What Others Have Said and Add My Own:
-A Wilderness Triage Class is great, some of the survivalist guys have started having classes taught by medics and EMT's for when SHTF potentially. Also good.
-If you can find someone to show you how to use a suture and cat gut, do so. 
-You can get sutures that have expired online, keep them sterile and they're safe to use. 
-Your Suture Needles can be sourced in medical grade online expired or through taxidermy shops.
-Maxi Pads, Tampons, Duct Tape, Super Glue, Butterfly Bands- They're your friends
-If you see a set of broken golf clubs some place with graphite shafts, take the shafts, put them behind the seat of your truck, they make great splints
-If you don't run into golf clubs with graphite clubs to rob shafts from, consider cutting some hard wood long splints.
-Get a Good First Aid Kit
-Augment Your Good First Aid Kit With a Dissection Kit(I got mine when I worked for a university at the campus bookstore)
-If you know someone in MMA/Boxing/Contact Sports or if you don't look online on MMA forums or Boxing Forums- you wanna find a cut man and ask where he gets his coagulents. In a pinch, that stuff can save your bacon. I'd rather not say where I got mine. Go to a local MMA or Boxing Gym, there is one in Sylva, so I know there has to be one near you.


----------



## northmanlogging

Stop bleed... from the feed store... werks great, and who cares where you get it from, the other stuff is more iffy, sutures and needles from the enter web... Thats just asking for some face eating mega virus. 

Couple of triangle bandages, duct tape and maybe some large bandages should be all you need to get to a hospital. Splints can be made on site out of damned near anything, and if you need to start your own stitches it means your not allowed in hospitals which means you have bigger concerns than bleeding to death.


----------



## brnchbrkr

http://www.technewsdaily.com/17163-warning-blood-veti-gel-stops-bleeding-instantly-video.html

Veti-gel?


----------



## Nemus Talea

Good info here. I'll be updating first aid pouch on my wedge belt.

Whistles: When I'm not wearing spenders or they're covered, I girth hitch my whistles' daisychained lanyard through a high button hole on my shirt or coat. Whistle hangs down into front pocket and stays out of the way. Even if hands are just bloody stumps, can still get behind lanyard and run whistle to mouth.


----------



## isaaccarlson

I will always stop to help someone. This is not something I am willing to stop doing. I don't care if I get sued, it is the right thing to do. I was trained in emergency response and wilderness survival a number of years ago and even taught classes to others. I don't carry and certification anymore, but I sure can help someone if they are hurt.


----------



## pioneerguy600

isaaccarlson said:


> I will always stop to help someone. This is not something I am willing to stop doing. I don't care if I get sued, it is the right thing to do. I was trained in emergency response and wilderness survival a number of years ago and even taught classes to others. I don't carry and certification anymore, but I sure can help someone if they are hurt.



Up here in Canada all we need to hear from the victim is ,yes help me, even if it is barely perceptible.This will preclude us from any lawsuit or wrongdoing suit brought afterwards.


----------



## northmanlogging

Last time I was in a cpr/first aid class, we where told if they where awake to ask for permission, if not help anyways. There are laws on the books here preventing us from being sued for helping someone if they give permission or if they where unable to give permission, called the good samaratin act (sp?).


----------



## 4x4American

Not sure ifen I mentioned this or not, but one time, I got hit by a flying black birch log, thankfully it wasn't all the big, but it threw me through the air and almost hit me again. It was one of them deals where it was on a steep hill and there's boulders all over and it hit a boulder that was in the right spot at the right time and the birch log turned into a see-saw and I didn't really get far enough away..anyways...I got this crazy adrenaline rush from it, to the point where I was shaking and couldn't see clearly, I checked myself to make sure I still had my arms and legs and nothing major was wrong...turned out I was fine...but I called it quits for the day. It took me an hour for the shaking to stop.


----------



## Gypo Logger

After 33 years of making my living in the woods, except for a few short stints at gold mining, Ive had 9 lost time injuries. In that time Ive had lots of time to ponder the real cause of injuries/ fatalities.

Other than the obvious cause, such as inexperience, has anyone stopped to consider the emotional and mental state of the victim? Lets say we go to work with marital, family or financial problems weighing heavily on our minds, we just wont be there 100 percent and therefore a danger to ourselves.

In my history of injuries, at least 60% were when I was thinking about external negative forces. Just as an analogy, it is far safer to work happily drunk than it is to work with fret and worry.

While we work, many thoughts enter our minds, let them be happy thoughts and purge the negative ones. Not that we need to be shrinks, but maybe team leaders should talk about this sort of thing at the start of every work day and look for the danger signs between the ears.
Stay safe and fly right


----------



## windthrown

Well, several things to comment on here. Note that I am a trained first responder with the Mt Hood and National Ski Patrol and I have an OEC (Outdoor Emergency Care) card which is similar to EMT level II, and a medical CPR card. I have a lot of search and rescue training and experience, and I have dealt with a lot of actual first responder medical cases on and off the mountain.

The first comment is about thinking positive, negative, or otherwise. One problem with the happy thought theory is that I see a lot of cases with drunk or stoned people. Being drunk and stoned may make you feel good, but it greatly impairs your judgment. You are far better off being sober and pissed off in my experience. Save the beers and splifs for the end of the day, people. The other issue with the happy theory is that good feelings can be just as distracting as bad. The issue is to focus on what you are doing, not on other thoughts, good bad or otherwise.

The thing that we are trained on all the time in snow avalanche awareness is that people do things against their better judgment due to false confidence and well being. In almost all human triggered snow avalanche events, people thought it was safe to do very dangerous things. They saw someone else doing something, so they thought it is a good idea and safe to follow. Or they ignored the warnings. Even the most over-educated avalanche expert in the world was killed by an avalanche that he triggered in the outback in Colorado. It was a perfect day with perfect snow and he nearly killed the 3 other people with him. Its an enigma, and one that we train on over and over again. In other words, the days where everything seems to be going perfect are the ones where things can and do go terribly wrong. Happy conditions can lead to tragedy as they are just as distracting as negative ones. I have done it myself, falling trees in a series of perfect falls, and then one snags, spins or barbers, and bang, things go to shyte all of a sudden. Or up on the mountain opening a lift on a perfect morning, feeling great, and I hit a sheet of ice, I spun, and the next thing I remember is waking up in the back of an ambulance with a concussion.


----------



## windthrown

Some other points I will address here from my perspective and experience...

I would not advise the use of a tourniquet unless it is the absolute last/only resort. They have not been used in our medical response protocol for many years now. They are likely to cause far more damage than good, and may lead to the loss of a limb. In cases of severed limbs and severe bleeding, stop the bleeding with whatever you have. Kotex are great, I carry many. If the bleeding does not stop, add more bandages. If it still does not stop, add more bandages. We do not use the gel blood coagulants on the MHSP for several reasons, but we train with it and it may help in severe bleeding situations. I would advise that you make your own first aid packs. I have several, and if anyone wants to know what I carry and why, I can list them here.

If you live in the PNW I would advise that you get LifeFlight or similar air rescue insurance. It is about $60 a year and will cover all costs of an air lift rescue for you and your family in all or parts of the states of OR, WA, ID, MT, NV, WY and CA. A typical Lifeflight rescue from Mt Hood to any of the hospitals in Portland, OR will cost you at least $30,000, and it is NOT covered by 90% of medical insurance plans, including Obamacare. In cases where life or limb is in peril, I call LifeFlight, regardless. Its protocol. Here is the LifeFlight Network web page: http://lifeflight.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=182

As for law suits from rendering first aid, it completely depends on the state (and country) that you are in. In Oregon there are strong Good Sam laws and we first responders are protected from legal suits for rendering first aid, but only as non-paid volunteers and only when we follow protocol. Also that still does not stop people from filing lawsuits. Sometimes the first thing out of people's mouths when they have been rescued or helped is that they are going to sue! We always ask people if they want to be helped, and if they decline, we ask that they sign a waiver. If they are unable to respond, we must assume that they would want first aid.

CPR varies every time I renew my card. I have a Medical 2 person CPR card, which uses several methods of CPR, including the use of a defibulator. My latest CPR course advised more rapid chest compressions than previously, and gives a lower priority to rescue breaths. It always changes. Triage protocol also varies every time I take training in it. Triage does not always mean a mass casualty incident. It can be a tree falling incident with 2 guys and only one responder. You then have to decide what to do in what order. I have done a lot of triage scenarios, (some real ones) and every time I feel like I have failed miserably. You always miss and overlook something, and you simply cannot herd cats.


----------



## Gologit

Gypo Logger said:


> Just as an analogy, it is far safer to work happily drunk than it is to work with fret and worry.



That's crap. Fret and worry are part of life. Keep your mind on what you're doing. If you're not mentally strong enough to do that maybe you ought to get a job in town.

If a guy shows up drunk, even happily drunk, he doesn't work. Period.


----------



## bitzer

Great advice Windthrown. Bob you are right on. That is total ******** about being drunk or high. I remember a few years ago some guy on here talking about how he doesn't run a saw when he is tired, or mad, or sad, or constipated, or hungry, or etc, etc... I called him out on that. He also said he runs at only WOT. Yeah ok. Move it along.


----------



## MEdooGuide

Guys, I train first aid/cpr for the logging industry. I take a lot of time to talk about rural response and what to do when hours from help. Couple of key points to make:

If the guy is responsive you need permission to help. Unresponsive and consent is implied. Depending on state laws you're protected by the good Samaritans act which means as long as you act WITHIN your training, you should be protected by lawsuit... aka don't try to start a traceotomy on him. 

Widow makers will almost always result in a neck injury which drastically increases the potential for paralysis, avoid moving at all costs. If you are forced too, reduce the chances of a neck injury by eliminating movement of his neck.

If you cut an artery you have about 2 min max to get help. Remember your arteries are like an elastic and when they are snipped off the retract into your body. Your best chance to stop the bleeding is not at the wound but further away.

Don't wait until it all hits the fans... plan a little bit and when an accident occurs it will go smoother. Take an additional step to make sure you can land a helicopter. Carry your epi pen if you are supposed to have one, same with your inhaler. Know how to tell someone where you are when you call for an ambulance and have communication with the outside world.

Finally, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... wear your PPE, I don't care how long you have run a saw, if you cut an artery you bleed out just as quick as the rest of us and it is really hard to impossible to stop that type of bleeding.


----------



## Pulp

Here goes from a virgin lurker.

Except for windthrown, MEdoo, and a couple of you WITH emergency/mil experience and training, most of these comments are big time BS.
First off: forget the lawyer slease--you see someone in need, get off your a$$ and do it. Never ASK if someone is bleeding out, unconscious, or not breathing, or in need.
Second: Get off your a$$ II-- is go out and get trained. No biggie. There's plenty of programs to show how to save a life or your own.
Third: Who the %$#&@ always has a 'partner' or cronies around when they're working woods ?
Fourth: Look at "blowout kit" contents. Training, duct tape, and ole time kotex ( find full sized blood pads at your local ER. The latest "tampons" are a joke).
Sure you can get any kind of high end emergency tools, but the simpler along with using your brain work best.
Fifth: LOUD WHISTLES attached to you ( crotch one too ).
Sixth: Ditch this pychobabble about working .

Just saying.


----------



## slowp

Whatever. I think you will be on IGNORE.


----------



## MEdooGuide

Pulp said:


> Here goes from a virgin lurker.
> 
> Except for windthrown, MEdoo, and a couple of you WITH emergency/mil experience and training, most of these comments are big time BS.
> First off: forget the lawyer slease--you see someone in need, get off your a$$ and do it. Never ASK if someone is bleeding out, unconscious, or not breathing, or in need.
> Second: Get off your a$$ II-- is go out and get trained. No biggie. There's plenty of programs to show how to save a life or your own.
> Third: Who the %$#&@ always has a 'partner' or cronies around when they're working woods ?
> Fourth: Look at "blowout kit" contents. Training, duct tape, and ole time kotex ( find full sized blood pads at your local ER. The latest "tampons" are a joke).
> Sure you can get any kind of high end emergency tools, but the simpler along with using your brain work best.
> Fifth: LOUD WHISTLES attached to you ( crotch one too ).
> Sixth: Ditch this pychobabble about working .
> 
> Just saying.



Unfortunately the lawyer cap is a reality of the world we live in... got to cya.


----------



## RandyMac

slowp said:


> Whatever. I think you will be on IGNORE.


yup


----------



## jomoco

Pulp said:


> Here goes from a virgin lurker.
> 
> Except for windthrown, MEdoo, and a couple of you WITH emergency/mil experience and training, most of these comments are big time BS.
> First off: forget the lawyer slease--you see someone in need, get off your a$$ and do it. Never ASK if someone is bleeding out, unconscious, or not breathing, or in need.
> Second: Get off your a$$ II-- is go out and get trained. No biggie. There's plenty of programs to show how to save a life or your own.
> Third: Who the %$#&@ always has a 'partner' or cronies around when they're working woods ?
> Fourth: Look at "blowout kit" contents. Training, duct tape, and ole time kotex ( find full sized blood pads at your local ER. The latest "tampons" are a joke).
> Sure you can get any kind of high end emergency tools, but the simpler along with using your brain work best.
> Fifth: LOUD WHISTLES attached to you ( crotch one too ).
> Sixth: Ditch this pychobabble about working .
> 
> Just saying.



Windthrown gave good advice, but kinda shocked me about not usin tourniquets as a go to unless absolutely necessary.

Well duh, a knicked femoral leg artery puts off a hell of a spray. The sooner that tourniquet gets applied and cinched down good, the better that man's chances of living to see an ER.

I know for a fact that nylon loops and biners make an effective upper leg cut tourniquet. That the man will scream and beat at you once it's tight enough to stop squirting, but must be overpowered and transported or else surely lose the leg.

Collapsible stretchers, pneumatic leg and arm splints all in addition to a deluxe Bailey's Woodsman first aid kit, have all come in very handy for me in this biz, when the inevitable happens. No fatalities on any of my job sites in forty years now, knock on wood.

Guy I cinched off lived and kept his leg.

jomoco


----------



## northmanlogging

tourniquets are frowned on cause peeps that don't know better use them for minor wounds and jeopardize the limb. A femoral artery only give ya like 12 seconds to fix so in that case use it, but use it correctly, otherwise don't **** with it direct preassure is better at stopping bleeding anyway. But I'm not a doctor just a guy with bad balance and poor judgment.


----------



## jomoco

Yeah, well applying direct pressure don't work too well mate, on a femoral cut. It must be cinched off ASAP. That's only half the battle. Transporting a 225 pound in panic mode is another matter that requires cold logic to end well. Time becomes a precious commodity you can't afford fools to spend liberally.

Most of the people in the general public when exposed to true trauma, even brothers and sisters, curl up into useless infants when confronted with blood and guts in real life. I've been directly involved in enough truly bloody incidents to know that direct exposure to them entails a high emotional cost. It's just that some people don't flip out completely and can still function rationally in a crisis situation.

It has been an invariable truth in my case that despite saving the victim from imminent death, once the patient makes it into more qualified and experienced hands, I have broken down into tears and sobbing just from being relieved of that life and death burden.

PTSD is not BS. It's just that succumbing to it afterwards saves a lot of lives.

jomoco


----------



## northmanlogging

Maybe in Caliphonia the general public becomes a drooling mass of uselessness, not so much in these parts. I don't know many people without some formal first aid training, and I don't mean the crap they teach in high school health class, If there is an accident the first 3-5 cars on the scene will stop and help, not just takes pics and post them on myface.c0m.

Just take a long hard look at the people helping at the OSO slide, for the first 5 days it was nothing but volunteers, volunteers found most of the bodies and saved every life, volunteers kept looking when no one else would. This attitude permeates this entire region, its not just an Oso, Arlington, Darrington thing. This is where the frontier meets the city, **** happens and EMS is sometimes hours away even on a highway.

And yes a major artery is one place where a tourniquet is necessary but its not the god's only truth to saving lives, and a tourniquet has probably killed as many people as its saved by being improperly applied due to toxins in the blood building up in the limb and then suddenly being released usually causing cardiac arrest.

Not to mention that most people have no idea how to properly apply a tourniquet especially since first aid courses have stopped teaching this. There is more to it than just wrapping a belt around the limb and tightening down until the bleeding stops, you have to find a pressure point for one. And you can't leave it on until the ambulance shows up, causing said blood toxins. In fact its better to just use direct pressure, if it don't stop the bleeding apply more pressure, at the very least it will slow the bleeding until help can arrive.

Besides like I said before, with a truly severed femoral artery you have about 12 seconds to stop the bleeding, which gives about 12 seconds to find a pressure point, find something to make a tourniquet with, apply said tourniquet, not pass out in the process, and then call for help, chances of survival slim and none and slim lest town.


----------



## jomoco

Wait until help arrives?

How about cinchin it off, chucking him into a 4X4, and haulin azz to an ER?

Worked well for me now quite a few times...

jomoco


----------



## jomoco

Hey NorthManLogging,

What you're sayin bout direct pressure to minimize arterial bleeding is spot on and undoubtably true when it comes to chest punctures no doubt.

How you gonna put a tourniquet on a chest puncture? Direct pressure works, as long as it's able to give a bit with the breathing cycle.

Many years ago a Moto-X buddy of mine got too squirrelly on an extremely steep downhill section of a course we were riding, got too far into the weeds, and had a manzanita stub spear him off his bike, leaving him impaled through his chest protector, jersey and chest like a rag doll.

Being the next rider above and behind him I witnessed it happening, threw my bike down hill, rushed to his assistance, and physically pulled him off the manzanita stub.

At which point arterial blood sprayed profusely from the injury. Instinctively I ripped his chest protector off, got under his jersey and applied direct pressure to the wound with my right hand sufficient to stop the outward blood loss, while using my left hand to gain leverage leverage against his back. He complained violently bout not being able to breathe, but I knew he could because I could feel his chest expanding and retracting between my two hands. I was latched to him like a bulldog in full Moto-X regalia, and never felt his blows aimed at me thanks to helmet etc.

The nightmare was maintaining that pressure and coordinating the transport logistics during the crisis, even with six people and three vehicles assisting. We stuffed him on a lounge chair, got him into the back of a Ford Ranchero for transport, but the driver was so distraught he slid off the main road into deep sand and got stuck. The victim's brother was in the back of the Ranchero with me, sobbing in fear of his brother dying, not comprehending that unless he went back to the track and got a friend's 4x4 ASAP, his brother really would die. I had to let go with my left hand at his back long enough to slap him out of his stupor and run back to the track.

Meanwhile the driver of the Ranchero was so furious with himself for running off the road and getting stuck, he was doing the old forward gear and floor it, quickly followed by reverse gear and floor it. After a few minutes of this he managed to creep back onto the main road and complete our trip to the Apple Valley Hospital.

Well over 30 minutes went by before he was in the ER's hands. I distinctly remembered getting there still latched to my riding buddy like a leach, demanding who the doc was that'd take my spot applying pressure to the wound? As he stepped next to me in the ER, saying yes I can relieve you, the blood spray hitting his clean gown as his rubber gloved hands replaced my leather gloved hand.

Lucky for the victim, that branch just punctured his ribs and chest, barely scraping his lung on that side, or he'd of been a dead door nail within a few minutes of the accident.

So yeah, direct pressure on arterial bleeding works. But a truly punctured lung demands some kinda seal, like a Baggie, Saran Wrap or something to keep from suckin air, ASAP.

Stayin calm during these types of traumatic incidents is the key to a successful outcome in some cases, atleast in my exposure to them over the years.

jomoco


----------



## northmanlogging

Nice story.

The correct thing would have been to leave the manzanita javelin where it was, saw it off or break it off whatever, let the stick stop the bleading. But then I'm not a doctor just a guy that pays attention to first aid and mountain rescue classes.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Nice story.
> 
> The correct thing would have been to leave the manzanita javelin where it was, saw it off or break it off whatever, let the stick stop the bleading. But then I'm not a doctor just a guy that pays attention to first aid and mountain rescue classes.



Well said...and the correct procedure, too.


----------



## Florida saw boy

I always carry gauze my cell and a whistle. Stay safe out there.


----------



## BeatCJ

northmanlogging said:


> There is more to it than just wrapping a belt around the limb and tightening down until the bleeding stops, you have to find a pressure point for one. And you can't leave it on until the ambulance shows up, causing said blood toxins. In fact its better to just use direct pressure, if it don't stop the bleeding apply more pressure, at the very least it will slow the bleeding until help can arrive.



The most current research is showing that tourniquets are not near as bad as we were taught. The military has demonstrated that many people can receive a wound requiring a tourniquet, an injury that would have resulted in life threatening bleeding without a tourniquet, and remain combat effective. There are a couple of commercially available tourniquets that can be self applied in a matter of seconds, and work extremely well. Also, unless there are other factors leading to injury, a tourniquet can remain in place for up to 6 hours without permanent injury as a result of the tourniquet. I think that if you are going to be working alone, with equipment that can cause that kind of injury, it's probably a good idea to carry one. I personally like the CAT: http://www.amazon.com/Military-Issue-Combat-Application-Tourniquet/dp/B003EGD8YC


----------



## tomsteve

I believe in any situation an injury happens that keeping calm is very important for both the injured and those around them. A lil story:
Man I know was workin at his daughters house doing some finish carpentry in her basement. One interior door needed to have the top trimmed down. Instead of going the safe approach and taking the door off the hinges and trimming it on saw horses, he wedged the guard on his circ saw and went to town with the door still hanging. At the end of the cut, forgetting he had the guard wedged, he rested the saw against his upper leg, severing the femoral artery.
Yelled upstairs for his wife, who upon getting to the bottom of the stairs, saw the blood and passed out.
Lo and behold, lil 12 year old granddaughter was home. Came downstairs, grabbed phone called 911 put it on speaker, applied pressure and tournequet, kept grandpa calm and when grandma came to, went. To work calming her.
The paramedics( and I think everyone) was completely amazed this lil 12 year old handled it so calmly. And her reply when told she did a great job?
" what good would freaking out do? Then there would have been 3 ambulances in the drveway!!!"
Today that lil girl is an ER nurse.


----------



## RVALUE

Gypo Logger said:


> Although I'm not an expert on the subject, I just wanted to discuss a few things about it.
> First of all, keep your cool and if you still got two legs and a heart beat, you'll probably be ok.
> You can lose alot of blood and still live.
> Finding the trail out can be the biggest problem, that's why snow is a good thing as you can sometimes follow your back trail.
> When hurt you'll have mega adrenalin, so use that to your advantage and when and if you find help, be chipper and laugh a bit, that will help the first responder to act fast and not freak out.
> Saw injuries are mostly just superficial, so keep your cool then too.
> Most injuries are not life threatening and those that are will be read about in the news.
> Once again, keep your cool and enjoy the adrenalin rush and the warm feeling of the blood.
> John




I've had a few injuries. Twice I was in more danger with the person driving me to the Hospital (that was freaking out) than the injury caused.


----------



## Pulp

Let's get real: the only way , only way you're going to learn about emergency care is to TRAIN.
You want to "ignore" or flame, fine. But listen carefully to the few,few posts that deal with real world situations, their experience, their background.
Rural and wilderness response to emergencies is not your macho approach or knowing everything about nothing or pretending.
Read first the deadly serious detailed manuals on EMT Levels up to Paramedic qualifications. Ever even looked at them ?
Do the "ignore" fanatics with all their bloated experience have any SERE or mil corpsman duty ? 
What do First Responders actually have to do ? The ignorance shown here on real-life Triage is incredible. 
When you can't see through learning and training for that real life or death situation, be quiet and learn from those who have been.
Example: CPR techniques and CAT usage change almost by the year. You have the hands-on training for that ? It takes many many days.
Triage in an actual rural/wilderness setting, hours from EMT or ER or evac assist takes knowledge and experience to do....or not.
And, forget these stupid imagined legalities: never, ever leave anyone that you could possibly save. It goes back to the standard of
care: never leave anyone behind, dead, or wounded. There's no macho in emergencies.

Now ignore, delete, flame.....


----------



## Gologit

Pulp...

You made some valid points. What is it exactly that you'd like to see done differently or better and what do you see as the major mistakes being made?


----------



## slowp

In our state, people who work in the woods are required to take first aid training every year. I only had to go every other year, but it still seemed like an ordeal. I kind of feel sorry for the instructors. First aid is a dry topic.

Pulp, most of us don't have the time or inclination to become EMTs. Are you an EMT? If so, you should know how much time and effort that took. Now please tell me when somebody who lives an hour out from hospitals, works all day and sometimes on weekends, is going to find the time to reach that level? That's the Real World in my world. I don't know where you are.


----------



## BeatCJ

Pulp said:


> Let's get real: the only way , only way you're going to learn about emergency care is to TRAIN.
> 
> What do First Responders actually have to do ?
> 
> It takes many many days.



In general, I agree with you. I disagree that it takes many MANY DAYS to train someone to the level of First Aid that people need to have a positive impact on someone that is hurt in a logging accident. I know of several of my students that have saved lives after a basic First Aid CPR course. I taught a bunch of 7th graders, (over the years) and they retained enough of what I gave them in a week of 90 minute classes. It makes me proud to see a couple of peop,e still walking around because of that time.

As an Instructor, it IS difficult to keep people's attention, and make sure they aren't bored. I think that in general, people that are doing that instruction as a job do a poor job. I also wonder how many of those instructors have "seen the elephant".


----------



## Pulp

Damn. We're talking Emergency Care at a level that is in an outback, rural, hours from professional assistance.
No you fools don't have to do the EMT route; it takes many many many days to work up to the highest level.
First Aid stuff is just that --bandage care that usually is no where near saving anybody. The Red Cross and other bureaucratic
stuff is CYA, no more.
Stop bleeding. Clear an airway. If available, learn how to use an AED. Practice injections such as insulin, anaphalactic. Prevent shock. Save the life......or know when to stop. It's basic triage.
All that takes time, takes experience, the *will to learn* what you don't know.
Go to a ski area where the patrols are being trained. Take a few hours in an urban ER one Sat. night. Ride an ambulance. Talk to your fav cop/sheriff or F.D. how they're trained.
And please, don't believe this BS about legalities....it never happens; . You're on a work site miles from help, that logger is bleeding out, do something.
Can't take a few hours off your sooooo busy days to learn how to protect yourself and others ? Time to give it up. Your choice.
Yup, the elephant will arrive....sometime in your life.


----------



## BeatCJ

Pulp said:


> Damn. We're talking Emergency Care at a level that is in an outback, rural, hours from professional assistance.
> No you fools don't have to do the EMT route; it takes many many many days to work up to the highest level.


Ooops, just lost all my respect. No need to go calling people names.


> First Aid stuff is just that --bandage care that usually is no where near saving anybody. The Red Cross and other bureaucratic
> stuff is CYA, no more.


Again I disagree. Stopping bleeding IS saving someone. How long does it take to bleed out from an arterial bleed? Not long at all. A clean cut most times will tamponade, but chain very rarely cuts cleanly.


> Stop bleeding. Clear an airway. If available, learn how to use an AED. Practice injections such as insulin, anaphalactic. Prevent shock. Save the life......or know when to stop. It's basic triage.


NEVER, EVER use insulin as an emergency medicine. If you don't know why not, then you shouldn't be posting in this thread. And no, it's not triage. Triage means "to Sort". Basics, maybe so.


> ...snip...
> Go to a ski area where the patrols are being trained. Take a few hours in an urban ER one Sat. night. Ride an ambulance. Talk to your fav cop/sheriff or F.D. how they're trained.


Yeah, probably not going to happen anymore post 9/11. Our EMT Students have to undergo background checks to be allowed to do those things any more.


> And please, don't believe this BS about legalities....it never happens; . You're on a work site miles from help, that logger is bleeding out, do something.
> Can't take a few hours off your sooooo busy days to learn how to protect yourself and others ? Time to give it up. Your choice.
> Yup, the elephant will arrive....sometime in your life.


 Who said anything about legalities? I carry a significant amount of insurance personally, in addition to the protection I get from my agency and MPD. My personal insurance is mostly for vicarious liability as a supervisor and instructor. Good Samaritan Laws are pretty much universal, and well thought out.

I know, I know, BA in the flesh, spewing nonsense. Sorry, don't feed the Troll, I know.


----------



## Gologit

BeatCJ said:


> I know, I know, BA in the flesh, spewing nonsense. Sorry, don't feed the Troll, I know.



You're right about Pulp being Brush Ape. It was bad enough when he was just being his usual obnoxious self but it was relatively harmless. Irritating but harmless

Now however, he's posing as some kind of expert on trauma medicine and the advice he's giving is dangerous. Remember "first do no harm"? This guy is harm personified.


----------



## BeatCJ

I only made the connection from a comment elsewhere. As a Fire/EMS professional, the errors bother me.


----------



## slowp

BeatCJ said:


> I only made the connection from a comment elsewhere. As a Fire/EMS professional, the errors bother me.



Unfortunately, those errors will not affect the troll. He's a jerk. A real jerk. 
I'm having a hard time not busting out laughing. The picture of the gypo logger bothering me all day to use his epi pen so it wouldn't be wasted (humor on his part) has popped back into my head. He'd looked at the expiration date and it was that day. So, while we chose tailholds, I had to listen to " Are you sure you don't want to use my epi pen? I don't want to see it go to waste." Over and over. All the time I was out there.


----------



## Gologit

BeatCJ said:


> I only made the connection from a comment elsewhere. As a Fire/EMS professional, the errors bother me.



It_ should_ bother you. It sure bothers me.


----------



## BeatCJ

slowp said:


> Unfortunately, those errors will not affect the troll. He's a jerk. A real jerk.
> I'm having a hard time not busting out laughing. The picture of the gypo logger bothering me all day to use his epi pen so it wouldn't be wasted (humor on his part) has popped back into my head. He'd looked at the expiration date and it was that day. So, while we chose tailholds, I had to listen to " Are you sure you don't want to use my epi pen? I don't want to see it go to waste." Over and over. All the time I was out there.


Meh, expiration is over-rated. If you need some, I think I have a few expired ones around... Just for a little pick me up. Probably works better than coffee.


----------



## madhatte

Yo, Pulp -- are you a Brush Ape alt? If you are, I bet you're gonna get banned soon. Best mind your P's and Q's, starting with knocking off giving bogus emergency advice. Consider this a first and last warning.


----------



## Joe46

Well this has been interesting!


----------



## Pulp

Some of these Darwins don't read too well. Read what was posted; put things like insulin with airways and bleedouts--stupid is as stupid does.
Some skins are nano thin. 
Read what's been posted without all this threatening and name calling ( what the F is Bush Ape ?). There are only experts 
who've seen the elephant, not posturing, not BSing. "Warn" someone else. 
If you can't discuss intelligently, shut up. You know everything, fine. Don't need training or skills, fine.

Now back to the SOP of real world emergency care.


----------



## slowp

Pulp said:


> Some of these Darwins don't read too well. Read what was posted; put things like insulin with airways and bleedouts--stupid is as stupid does.
> Some skins are nano thin.
> Read what's been posted without all this threatening and name calling ( what the F is Bush Ape ?). There are only experts
> who've seen the elephant, not posturing, not BSing. "Warn" someone else.
> If you can't discuss intelligently, shut up. You know everything, fine. Don't need training or skills, fine.
> 
> Now back to the SOP of real world emergency care.



Still encouraging us to do the wrong thing? I've never heard about giving folks shots of insulin in a real First Aid class. Maybe you are in a different universe? What first aid class do you go to?


----------



## BeatCJ

I think, if I am interpreting correctly; is that he is calling ME stupid for saying that he was placing insulin with other emergency care. It's pretty tough to follow with the SMS style shorthand. But my wife and kids all laugh at me because I capitalize and punctuate text messages, even if it's a single line.


----------



## Gologit

I don't think I'd feel very secure if I was injured and Pulp showed up as a first responder. 
We've all seen them...the ones that get all frantic and hysterical and run around like chickens with their heads cut off and will do something, even if it's wrong. And it probably will be.
They usually get weeded out somewhere in the training process. I think that's probably what happened to Pulp. Somebody took a long hard look at him and decided that he'd never make it, that he'd do more harm than good. He got bounced from the program, came away half educated, and knows just enough to be truly dangerous.


----------



## madhatte

Pulp: I will accept, for now, that you aren't a banned poster trying to sneak around that ban by creating a new account. Good for you passing the Turing Test. However, it is poor form to roll into a forum with established members, guns blazing, and pointing fingers without first establishing bona fides. It could well be that you are the most experienced and qualified EMT that ever walked the face of the planet, but how would we ever know if you can't communicate except through histrionics and arm-waving? You need to turn it down, examine what it is that you really mean to say, and then say it, without all the drama-bait. You won't last long around here with that approach.


----------



## Joe46

The use of emoticons kinda remind me of someone that was sent to banned camp quite awhile back. I believe we named a backcut after him. Seems to me he also prided himself as somewhat of a first aid guru.


----------



## madhatte

I doubt that fellow will be stirring things up here again. He seems to have gotten it out of his system.


----------



## northmanlogging

I remember taking a class and one of the students response to every problem was a 9mm... another dude in same class had been through every conceivable catastrophe... and had to explain in finite detail why x was bad... oddly enough neither one was around on the final test day.


----------



## Odog

The insulin comment bugs me. My ex was an insulin dependent diabetic, and what I've learned is there is more than 1 type of insulin, and the wrong one can be as harmful as none at all. I've also seen the low blood sugar instances where more insulin would kill her in a heartbeat. A blood sugar in the single digits is not the time to give insulin, just more sugar. You have to know what you are dealing with when it comes to diabetics and insulin, that's why its suggested that diabetics where a medical Id bracelet to identify what the have. Thats just something I've learned.


----------



## Pulp

Trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion here is like lipstick on a pig. It just pisses off the pig(s) and don't make it pretty.
I'm out. Lose- Lose. No win. No "system". 
Tactical Darwinian retreat.


----------



## madhatte

Duly noted.


----------



## slowp

Actually, Pulp sounds kind of like logbutcher.


----------



## northmanlogging

Pulp said:


> Trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion here is like lipstick on a pig. It just pisses off the pig(s) and don't make it pretty.
> I'm out. Lose- Lose. No win. No "system".
> Tactical Darwinian retreat.



Actually there is a system, dumb **** gets called out quick, then said dumb **** gets huffy, makes some harmless jabs about peoples politics or status, then either gets banned or just doesn't bother to come back... pretty good system really.

Pigs love lipstick by the way...


----------



## Pulp

northmanlogging said:


> Actually there is a system, dumb **** gets called out quick, then said dumb **** gets huffy, makes some harmless jabs about peoples politics or status, then either gets banned or just doesn't bother to come back... pretty good system really.
> 
> *Pigs love lipstick by the way*...



Name one.
No, just that you dildos like to jab, but can't take it. Typical.
Not a hill to die on. No interest or intelligence here.


----------



## BeatCJ

My wife had a mini pig in the house, she would get into her purse at every opportunity. She ate several lipsticks.


----------



## Gologit

Pulp said:


> Name one.
> No, just that you dildos like to jab, but can't take it. Typical.
> Not a hill to die on. No interest or intelligence here.



Another WoodcutterTV/BrushApe reincarnation. There have been several. They're all the same in tone and content and not worthy of notice.


----------



## northmanlogging

Pulp said:


> Name one.
> No, just that you dildos like to jab, but can't take it. Typical.
> Not a hill to die on. No interest or intelligence here.



...said dumb ****, check

Gets called out, check

Harmless jab, Check

the verdict is out....


----------



## Wannabe123

If you like the CAT style tourniquets, look for the ones where windlass and retainers are metal instead of plastic and can be carried longer and take more pressure. I keep a few around. They are more pricey but well worth it. Keep CATS wrapped in their plastic as long as possible and out of sunlight and dirt/dust as it wears out the Velcro. Slit the bag and keep it in a dedicated pouch or something that will not get a lot of crap in with it. TQs are great, but remember that in the split bones of the calves and forearms their effectiveness will be limited where you can't press the vessel against a bone, so you might have to go higher or adjust it instead of cranking on it fruitlessly. Always mark the patient with the time the TQ was applied, write on them if possible so the information doesn't get lost when transferring them to higher echelon of care. Obviously if you are doing this yourself this may not be practical, but if you can, do so. Don't underestimate direct pressure or gauze and pressure dressings though. Just my .02.Sorry if I am repeating stuff.

Keeping a cool head is probably the best advice, but easier said than done. The best thing to do is avoid working alone if you can. This may not be practical for pro loggers all the time, but the other guys looking at this thread should really consider that.


----------



## Eccentric

Yep. Another TurdcutterVD/BrushAss incarnation to put on ignore......


----------



## stihl sawing

Pulp said:


> Damn. We're talking Emergency Care at a level that is in an outback, rural, hours from professional assistance.
> No you fools don't have to do the EMT route; it takes many many many days to work up to the highest level.
> First Aid stuff is just that --bandage care that usually is no where near saving anybody. The Red Cross and other bureaucratic
> stuff is CYA, no more.
> Stop bleeding. Clear an airway. If available, learn how to use an AED. Practice injections such as insulin, anaphalactic. Prevent shock. Save the life......or know when to stop. It's basic triage.
> All that takes time, takes experience, the *will to learn* what you don't know.
> Go to a ski area where the patrols are being trained. Take a few hours in an urban ER one Sat. night. Ride an ambulance. Talk to your fav cop/sheriff or F.D. how they're trained.
> And please, don't believe this BS about legalities....it never happens; . You're on a work site miles from help, that logger is bleeding out, do something.
> Can't take a few hours off your sooooo busy days to learn how to protect yourself and others ? Time to give it up. Your choice.
> Yup, the elephant will arrive....sometime in your life.


Pulp, you're on thin ice, You want to stay here? stop calling members names. I get one more report of your name calling and your history.


----------



## New Hampster

The most important things to remember are:
Pre-1. Avoid using any electronic devices. Leave them in your car. It's nature stupid! 
1. Never let anyone know where you'll be. You want to remain a shadow of interaction, avoiding all communication if possible.
2. Never take too much clothing, that stuff is heavy and you can't eat it.
3. If you do happen to find yourself in this situation, the first thing to remember is to sink into panic and fear. Imagine yourself dying, frozen, mouth agape stuck to a tree. Hyperventilation can be your friend and help you slip into shock, a wonderful gift to terror where you will forget all your worries.
4. Run! Running is good for us. Just run in a straight line through the woods for as long as you can, removing any clothing as to not overheat.
5. Scream at the top of your lungs. Crying also helps the authenticity of your screams, so everyone knows you are serious.
6. Eat or drink all of your available food and water immediately.
7. Camouflage yourself with mud and shrubbery when you think you hear someone coming or see drones flying overhead. They're always watching us.

Oh wait...hold on...that's my list for ending a long term relationship.
Ummm...just do the opposite of these.


----------



## Highclimber OR

I'm with the original assessment, doing what you can, staying calm, get help asap, evaluate your injury, be happy like you just won something, all good advice this is my basic mo when i get injured. When i nearly took the tip of my finger off i did briefly lose my humor when the intake uh guy tried to take off my glove and what was left hanging of my finger. But it was an almost sewed it back on miracle i kept it considering and it doesn't look too bwahahaha!


----------



## Gypo Logger

The first thing you do when you get hurt in the bush, is you call in the tree surgeon.
John


----------



## Gypo Logger

Who's this Pulp guy! Don't make me come down there Pulp!


stihl sawing said:


> Pulp, you're on thin ice, You want to stay here? stop calling members names. I get one more report of your name calling and your history.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Pulp said:


> Some of these Darwins don't read too well. Read what was posted; put things like insulin with airways and bleedouts--stupid is as stupid does.
> Some skins are nano thin.
> Read what's been posted without all this threatening and name calling ( what the F is Bush Ape ?). There are only experts
> who've seen the elephant, not posturing, not BSing. "Warn" someone else.
> If you can't discuss intelligently, shut up. You know everything, fine. Don't need training or skills, fine.
> 
> Now back to the SOP of real world emergency care.


Hello Pulp, I got hit hard because I wasn't wearing a hard hat, but the no hard hat wasn't the cause of it.
I haven't read everything here, but why are they pounding on you?
John


----------



## BeatCJ

Because, like the cigarettes at the bottom of the urinal, he's a target of opportunity.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Maybe he just needs a hug.
John


----------



## BeatCJ

I've noticed you are always the peacekeeper, trying to smooth things out. Good on you.


----------



## Gypo Logger

BeatCJ said:


> I've noticed you are always the peacekeeper, trying to smooth things out. Good on you.


Thank you, I appreciate the compliment as well as all the members who have posted here.
John


----------



## Gypo Logger

Nobody been hurt lately?


----------



## northmanlogging

I got a sliver in my finger... that count? And I burned my nipple welding...


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> I got a sliver in my finger... that count? And I burned my nipple welding...


No sence, no feeling.


----------



## northmanlogging

no the nipple thing really stank and stung tooThough I'm getting used to the smell of my own burning flesh


----------



## BeatCJ

I hope you wear earplugs when welding. A BB in the ear canal makes a horrible sizzling sound. Also, for general information, polypropylene fleece offers absolutely no protection from spatter.


----------



## 1270d

i managed to get a pretty big piece of mig splatter on my wedding ring a while back. Just a quick tack so of course you dont' need gloves.... My finger smelled bad for a bit after that.


----------



## BeatCJ

That's one of the reasons my ring is tungsten. In addition to being REALLY scratch resistant, spatter isn't supposed to stick. I gotta say, it looks a lot better than my watch, and I've had the ring twice as long.


----------



## mountainmandan

If you see someone who is diabetic loose consciousness, they need a higher level of care. Your do not know how long this has been going on, and if you correct with insulin only, you risk causing electrolyte abnormalities that can be life threatening. The risk is small, but there. Would you kill your buddy over a simple lab test? The other thing to remember is that if you give insulin, you are 100 percent committed. What if you are wrong? Now you have hypoglycemia to deal with on and top of the original problem. My point is it is complicated.
Dan Simons RN


----------



## BeatCJ

Of course, you know to give insulin because of the reading on the glucometer, right? And being an expert, you knew how much to give with a reading of 45?

Or do you just give insulin to an unconscious diabetic without knowing they are at 45. Now you probably have to manage a seizure, and they end up with brain damage, from long term hypoglycemia. I will say it again, insulin IS NOT A FIELD MEDICATION, and shouldn't be mentioned as a treatment in this context.

4 to 12 hours of excessive sugar won't cause a long term disability. Not saying it should be ignored, but it's outside the scope of 'Hurt in the Woods'.


----------



## Gypo Logger

If it's a survival kind of thing and you just made it out on your own, did The Lord lend a hand?
To answer my own question, don't ask God for anything useless you absolutely need it.
John


----------



## derwoodii

um any one said tourniquet yet,,, oh and an i found lady's napkins handy in your 1st aid kit they work a treat for soakin the claret from oozing nasty gashes


----------



## olyman

Gypo Logger said:


> If it's a survival kind of thing and you just made it out on your own, did The Lord lend a hand?
> To answer my own question, don't ask God for anything useless you absolutely need it.
> John


 every time, you post that pic of your injury,,muh legs get weak...........


----------



## Gologit

The basic rule..." First, do no harm".


----------



## Gypo Logger

Hats off to all the times we never got hurt! No sence, no feeling. I think this is one of my best pictures, even if I say so mineself.
John


----------



## Gypo Logger

olyman said:


> every time, you post that pic of your injury,,muh legs get weak...........


You mean the one that caused the brain injury or the one that made me criminally insane? Lol


----------



## Gypo Logger

Glorified hangnail.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Nothing that can't be buffed out. Lol


----------



## Trx250r180

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 404919
> Hats off to all the times we never got hurt! No sence, no feeling. I think this is one of my best pictures, even if I say so mineself.
> John


lose your load ?


----------



## Gypo Logger

Trx250r180 said:


> lose your load ?


Not that I recall.


----------



## Pa Pa Jack

My event didn't happen while cutting wood, but it makes a point that I never really understood.

On November 11th, I was in PA hunting with cousins. I normally pick the last two weeks of archery season to spend with them. This year was no different.

We didn't get out real early, because I had seen a dentist several days earlier because of an abscessed tooth. This was the follow up visit. I had explained to the Dr. that I was there for deer season so he set me up as the first patient of the day. He's a deer hunter also.

Got to the property about 9 o'clock. I had decided to hunt my favorite stand. It also happens to be the most difficult stand to get to. It sits on the highest ridge we have and it is very thick undergrowth. Over the years, I have established an ATV trail the runs up a very steep hill on the backside of the ridge. It is a really fun hillclimb. I can get within about 200 yards of my ladder stand. Around the stand itself, we have cleaned out 5 decent shooting lanes out to about 75 yards. All in all, it's a pretty danged good set-up.

I got into the stand at about 10 o'clock. The rut had begun to pick up as the weather cooled off the last two days so I was really looking forward to the day.

I had only been in the stand about 5 minutes when I suddenly felt very ill. I can't really explain it, but I was just suddenly very "fuzzy". I sat there for about 10 minutes and it kept getting worse. My hands and feet began tingling and I was quite light headed. My first concern was getting out of the stand and on the ground. It took me another ten minutes to get down. I had to sit at the base of the stand and gather my senses enough to get to the ATV. Although it was only about 200 yards, I had to stop twice and literally lay down to gain enough strength and balance to continue. I had no way to get in touch with my cousin who was hunting the ridge on the other side of the valley. I still had no idea what was wrong, but something was really bad.

When I got to the ATV, I had to sit for a while and gather the strength to get it turned around and headed in the right direction. I could have taken a shorter route back to the cars, but there would not be anyone there to help. I had to get to Dave and the shortest way to do that was to go back down the same way I had come in. Not a fun prospect feeling the way I did. It's a very steep descent. Half way down the hill one of the front tires broke it's bead and went flat. It was extremely hard to steer now.

I finally managed to get to the bottom and out to the dirt road. I knew where Dave was hunting and his stand was only about 150 yards up the hill but I couldn't muster the breath to yell for him. In fact, I realized I almost couldn't breathe at all. Things were getting worse by the minute. I decided to force the ATV up the road to the top of the hill and then come back the trail to Dave's stand. That is about a 3/4 mile trip.

He heard me coming and thought I had connected with a deer and was coming for help to recover it. When I pulled up to his stand, he knew something was wrong instantly. He told me later that I looked like death warmed over. I simply told him I needed a hospital "Right Now".

Our car was about 2 miles away. We always park at a friends house who normally is not around because his work takes him all over the country. I drove the quad to the car and Dave had to recover his quad and follow. Somehow, we go me into the car and began driving to the nearest hospital. It was about 20 miles away.

Our route would take us by the East Finley Twp. road crew maintenance shop. We decided to stop and see if anyone there could help. Dave found 4 guys there on their break. they jumped in and started making calls. In 11 minutes we had paramedics from three local VFD's there. It seemed like hours to me, they were really a life saver. They immediately called the hospital and dispatched an ambulance.

A half hour later, I was in the ambulance and headed for the hospital. Because of our location, they could not send any vitals to the Dr. until we reached to higher ground. They got IV's and electrodes all over me. They gave me four aspirins to chew. I was convinced this whole episode had some thing to due with my COPD. I have been on medications for this for 10 years. I had no real pain, just felt horrible.

When we reached the to of the ridge, the Dr. in the ER got the transmission of the EKG and immediately told them to give me nitroglycerin. That is when I knew something worse was going on. I have been married to an emergency room RN for 46 years. I know they don't give nitro for the hell of it.

When we got to the hospital, we did not go to the Emergency Room entrance, we went to a side entrance that opens up directly into the treatment rooms. They had me in, x-rayed, unclothed, scrubbed and shaved in about 5 minutes. I was in the OR in 8 minutes and they were doing a cardiac cath in less than 20 minutes. 

They found 100% blockage on one of my arteries. They installed a stent and had me in CCU recovery in under and hour.

Everything has turned out well. Dr. Clampsey told me I should have been dead. He cannot believe the story I just described for you. If we had driven to the hospital on our own, I would have died. The emergency people that were involved saved my life. It the ER had not been aware of my impending arrival, they would not have been ready and had a surgical team on stand-by waiting for me. IT would have meant at least a one hour delay.

I had a serious heart attack. There was no pain like you see of TV. I didn't drop and grab my chest in agony. A heart attack does not have to be that way. You know your body better than anyone else, If you feel "wrong", see a Dr. ASAP. I never thought it had anything to do with my heart.

I was lucky. I will never go out again with no way to signal for help. I have always let someone know exactly where I was going to be, but never carried a phone or a walkie-talkie. That will change. Be careful my friends. 

I guess "What I learned", is that you know your body better than anyone else. If something doesn't feel right it probably isn't. I think we try to be "manly" and work through it. That just might get you killed.


----------



## BeatCJ

Pa Pa Jack said:


> My event didn't happen while cutting wood, but it makes a point that I never really understood...
> 
> ...I had only been in the stand about 5 minutes when I suddenly felt very ill. I can't really explain it, but I was just suddenly very "fuzzy"...
> 
> ...I had a serious heart attack. There was no pain like you see of TV. I didn't drop and grab my chest in agony. A heart attack does not have to be that way. You know your body better than anyone else, If you feel "wrong", see a Dr. ASAP. I never thought it had anything to do with my heart.
> 
> I was lucky. I will never go out again with no way to signal for help. I have always let someone know exactly where I was going to be, but never carried a phone or a walkie-talkie. That will change. Be careful my friends.
> 
> I guess "What I learned", is that you know your body better than anyone else. If something doesn't feel right it probably isn't. I think we try to be "manly" and work through it. That just might get you killed.



Great story PaPa Jack. Several good points, glad you turned out OK. Aspirin is a great drug. Some people can't use it, it can set off a fatal asthma attack. For the rest of us, we probably should always have a fresh bottle around.

Are you a diabetic? Diabetes significantly alters Signs and Symptoms of a heart attack.

What you describe are the signs of shock. Your irritated heart wasn't able to provide enough blood flow to perfuse your brain or body.

Excellent point about driving yourself. EMS Crews really can provide lifesaving treatment, can prepare hospital staff, and many times save you time. Sometimes it's hard to depend on others, but just ignoring issues won't make them go away.


----------



## Gypo Logger

In 04 I had an HA, it was caused by artery blockage in two veins in combination with over exerting myself by trying to pull out a sticking mainline cable on the 540a cable skidder.
I denied the whole thing until 20hrs later.
Now I have two stents. They told me I would never pick up a saw again, but since then Ive cut a 1000 cords and around 250,000 ft. And umpteen thousand other physical feats. Lol. There's a thread somewhere here about that.
John


----------



## Gypo Logger

Pa Pa Jack said:


> My event didn't happen while cutting wood, but it makes a point that I never really understood.
> 
> On November 11th, I was in PA hunting with cousins. I normally pick the last two weeks of archery season to spend with them. This year was no different.
> 
> We didn't get out real early, because I had seen a dentist several days earlier because of an abscessed tooth. This was the follow up visit. I had explained to the Dr. that I was there for deer season so he set me up as the first patient of the day. He's a deer hunter also.
> 
> Got to the property about 9 o'clock. I had decided to hunt my favorite stand. It also happens to be the most difficult stand to get to. It sits on the highest ridge we have and it is very thick undergrowth. Over the years, I have established an ATV trail the runs up a very steep hill on the backside of the ridge. It is a really fun hillclimb. I can get within about 200 yards of my ladder stand. Around the stand itself, we have cleaned out 5 decent shooting lanes out to about 75 yards. All in all, it's a pretty danged good set-up.
> 
> I got into the stand at about 10 o'clock. The rut had begun to pick up as the weather cooled off the last two days so I was really looking forward to the day.
> 
> I had only been in the stand about 5 minutes when I suddenly felt very ill. I can't really explain it, but I was just suddenly very "fuzzy". I sat there for about 10 minutes and it kept getting worse. My hands and feet began tingling and I was quite light headed. My first concern was getting out of the stand and on the ground. It took me another ten minutes to get down. I had to sit at the base of the stand and gather my senses enough to get to the ATV. Although it was only about 200 yards, I had to stop twice and literally lay down to gain enough strength and balance to continue. I had no way to get in touch with my cousin who was hunting the ridge on the other side of the valley. I still had no idea what was wrong, but something was really bad.
> 
> When I got to the ATV, I had to sit for a while and gather the strength to get it turned around and headed in the right direction. I could have taken a shorter route back to the cars, but there would not be anyone there to help. I had to get to Dave and the shortest way to do that was to go back down the same way I had come in. Not a fun prospect feeling the way I did. It's a very steep descent. Half way down the hill one of the front tires broke it's bead and went flat. It was extremely hard to steer now.
> 
> I finally managed to get to the bottom and out to the dirt road. I knew where Dave was hunting and his stand was only about 150 yards up the hill but I couldn't muster the breath to yell for him. In fact, I realized I almost couldn't breathe at all. Things were getting worse by the minute. I decided to force the ATV up the road to the top of the hill and then come back the trail to Dave's stand. That is about a 3/4 mile trip.
> 
> He heard me coming and thought I had connected with a deer and was coming for help to recover it. When I pulled up to his stand, he knew something was wrong instantly. He told me later that I looked like death warmed over. I simply told him I needed a hospital "Right Now".
> 
> Our car was about 2 miles away. We always park at a friends house who normally is not around because his work takes him all over the country. I drove the quad to the car and Dave had to recover his quad and follow. Somehow, we go me into the car and began driving to the nearest hospital. It was about 20 miles away.
> 
> Our route would take us by the East Finley Twp. road crew maintenance shop. We decided to stop and see if anyone there could help. Dave found 4 guys there on their break. they jumped in and started making calls. In 11 minutes we had paramedics from three local VFD's there. It seemed like hours to me, they were really a life saver. They immediately called the hospital and dispatched an ambulance.
> 
> A half hour later, I was in the ambulance and headed for the hospital. Because of our location, they could not send any vitals to the Dr. until we reached to higher ground. They got IV's and electrodes all over me. They gave me four aspirins to chew. I was convinced this whole episode had some thing to due with my COPD. I have been on medications for this for 10 years. I had no real pain, just felt horrible.
> 
> When we reached the to of the ridge, the Dr. in the ER got the transmission of the EKG and immediately told them to give me nitroglycerin. That is when I knew something worse was going on. I have been married to an emergency room RN for 46 years. I know they don't give nitro for the hell of it.
> 
> When we got to the hospital, we did not go to the Emergency Room entrance, we went to a side entrance that opens up directly into the treatment rooms. They had me in, x-rayed, unclothed, scrubbed and shaved in about 5 minutes. I was in the OR in 8 minutes and they were doing a cardiac cath in less than 20 minutes.
> 
> They found 100% blockage on one of my arteries. They installed a stent and had me in CCU recovery in under and hour.
> 
> Everything has turned out well. Dr. Clampsey told me I should have been dead. He cannot believe the story I just described for you. If we had driven to the hospital on our own, I would have died. The emergency people that were involved saved my life. It the ER had not been aware of my impending arrival, they would not have been ready and had a surgical team on stand-by waiting for me. IT would have meant at least a one hour delay.
> 
> I had a serious heart attack. There was no pain like you see of TV. I didn't drop and grab my chest in agony. A heart attack does not have to be that way. You know your body better than anyone else, If you feel "wrong", see a Dr. ASAP. I never thought it had anything to do with my heart.
> 
> I was lucky. I will never go out again with no way to signal for help. I have always let someone know exactly where I was going to be, but never carried a phone or a walkie-talkie. That will change. Be careful my friends.
> 
> I guess "What I learned", is that you know your body better than anyone else. If something doesn't feel right it probably isn't. I think we try to be "manly" and work through it. That just might get you killed.


Good write up. November for some reason is a bad month for ha's for some reason. I had mine on nov 8.
After awhile you understand its yet another chapter in the book.
John


----------



## Fubar

Pa Pa Jack said:


> My event didn't happen while cutting wood, but it makes a point that I never really understood.
> 
> On November 11th, I was in PA hunting with cousins. I normally pick the last two weeks of archery season to spend with them. This year was no different.
> 
> We didn't get out real early, because I had seen a dentist several days earlier because of an abscessed tooth. This was the follow up visit. I had explained to the Dr. that I was there for deer season so he set me up as the first patient of the day. He's a deer hunter also.
> 
> Got to the property about 9 o'clock. I had decided to hunt my favorite stand. It also happens to be the most difficult stand to get to. It sits on the highest ridge we have and it is very thick undergrowth. Over the years, I have established an ATV trail the runs up a very steep hill on the backside of the ridge. It is a really fun hillclimb. I can get within about 200 yards of my ladder stand. Around the stand itself, we have cleaned out 5 decent shooting lanes out to about 75 yards. All in all, it's a pretty danged good set-up.
> 
> I got into the stand at about 10 o'clock. The rut had begun to pick up as the weather cooled off the last two days so I was really looking forward to the day.
> 
> I had only been in the stand about 5 minutes when I suddenly felt very ill. I can't really explain it, but I was just suddenly very "fuzzy". I sat there for about 10 minutes and it kept getting worse. My hands and feet began tingling and I was quite light headed. My first concern was getting out of the stand and on the ground. It took me another ten minutes to get down. I had to sit at the base of the stand and gather my senses enough to get to the ATV. Although it was only about 200 yards, I had to stop twice and literally lay down to gain enough strength and balance to continue. I had no way to get in touch with my cousin who was hunting the ridge on the other side of the valley. I still had no idea what was wrong, but something was really bad.
> 
> When I got to the ATV, I had to sit for a while and gather the strength to get it turned around and headed in the right direction. I could have taken a shorter route back to the cars, but there would not be anyone there to help. I had to get to Dave and the shortest way to do that was to go back down the same way I had come in. Not a fun prospect feeling the way I did. It's a very steep descent. Half way down the hill one of the front tires broke it's bead and went flat. It was extremely hard to steer now.
> 
> I finally managed to get to the bottom and out to the dirt road. I knew where Dave was hunting and his stand was only about 150 yards up the hill but I couldn't muster the breath to yell for him. In fact, I realized I almost couldn't breathe at all. Things were getting worse by the minute. I decided to force the ATV up the road to the top of the hill and then come back the trail to Dave's stand. That is about a 3/4 mile trip.
> 
> He heard me coming and thought I had connected with a deer and was coming for help to recover it. When I pulled up to his stand, he knew something was wrong instantly. He told me later that I looked like death warmed over. I simply told him I needed a hospital "Right Now".
> 
> Our car was about 2 miles away. We always park at a friends house who normally is not around because his work takes him all over the country. I drove the quad to the car and Dave had to recover his quad and follow. Somehow, we go me into the car and began driving to the nearest hospital. It was about 20 miles away.
> 
> Our route would take us by the East Finley Twp. road crew maintenance shop. We decided to stop and see if anyone there could help. Dave found 4 guys there on their break. they jumped in and started making calls. In 11 minutes we had paramedics from three local VFD's there. It seemed like hours to me, they were really a life saver. They immediately called the hospital and dispatched an ambulance.
> 
> A half hour later, I was in the ambulance and headed for the hospital. Because of our location, they could not send any vitals to the Dr. until we reached to higher ground. They got IV's and electrodes all over me. They gave me four aspirins to chew. I was convinced this whole episode had some thing to due with my COPD. I have been on medications for this for 10 years. I had no real pain, just felt horrible.
> 
> When we reached the to of the ridge, the Dr. in the ER got the transmission of the EKG and immediately told them to give me nitroglycerin. That is when I knew something worse was going on. I have been married to an emergency room RN for 46 years. I know they don't give nitro for the hell of it.
> 
> When we got to the hospital, we did not go to the Emergency Room entrance, we went to a side entrance that opens up directly into the treatment rooms. They had me in, x-rayed, unclothed, scrubbed and shaved in about 5 minutes. I was in the OR in 8 minutes and they were doing a cardiac cath in less than 20 minutes.
> 
> They found 100% blockage on one of my arteries. They installed a stent and had me in CCU recovery in under and hour.
> 
> Everything has turned out well. Dr. Clampsey told me I should have been dead. He cannot believe the story I just described for you. If we had driven to the hospital on our own, I would have died. The emergency people that were involved saved my life. It the ER had not been aware of my impending arrival, they would not have been ready and had a surgical team on stand-by waiting for me. IT would have meant at least a one hour delay.
> 
> I had a serious heart attack. There was no pain like you see of TV. I didn't drop and grab my chest in agony. A heart attack does not have to be that way. You know your body better than anyone else, If you feel "wrong", see a Dr. ASAP. I never thought it had anything to do with my heart.
> 
> I was lucky. I will never go out again with no way to signal for help. I have always let someone know exactly where I was going to be, but never carried a phone or a walkie-talkie. That will change. Be careful my friends.
> 
> I guess "What I learned", is that you know your body better than anyone else. If something doesn't feel right it probably isn't. I think we try to be "manly" and work through it. That just might get you killed.





Gypo Logger said:


> In 04 I had an HA, it was caused by artery blockage in two veins in combination with over exerting myself by trying to pull out a sticking mainline cable on the 540a cable skidder.
> I denied the whole thing until 20hrs later.
> Now I have two stents. They told me I would never pick up a saw again, but since then Ive cut a 1000 cords and around 250,000 ft. And umpteen thousand other physical feats. Lol. There's a thread somewhere here about that.
> John


having a HA myself in jan 2002 , i can speak from experience that they can happen anywhere anytime , you can feel fine one second and then, bam you don't , i didn't feel any pain till after i woke up from passing out , my cardiologist tells me that most people don't feel any pain right off , that most people just pass out and either wake up or they don't , so all you other guys listen up , take care of your ticker and get it checked out ever so often , you won't regret it .


----------



## Gypo Logger

Fubar said:


> having a HA myself in jan 2002 , i can speak from experience that they can happen anywhere anytime , you can feel fine one second and then, bam you don't , i didn't feel any pain till after i woke up from passing out , my cardiologist tells me that most people don't feel any pain right off , that most people just pass out and either wake up or they don't , so all you other guys listen up , take care of your ticker and get it checked out ever so often , you won't regret it .


Its funny how life clings to some very improbable surfaces. Maybe only the good die young. No rest for the wicked. Lol
John


----------



## Gypo Logger

Men of the North are We.


----------



## Gypo Logger

We just go on as though it was part and parcel of the job. Like hit me hard and I'll get right back up and ask no questions and tell no lies and thank the people that saw me thru. It's nice to go it alone, but no man is an island unto himself.
I'm just going to lounge back and listen to some music as I hear the trees growing.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy

I try not to be in the woods aline. Normally I have a crew.

If I am aline, even just to do some maintenance on equipment on the landing I let someone know.

Dunno about the lesser 48, but in AK once your in the woods it's like stepping back in time.
No people, no cell phone, nothing.

In 2010 I was doing a roof alone. Slipped and fell on the plywoodl, which resulted in me falling off and breaking my back.

I crawled my butt to the house about 200 ft away, was that or freeze! (Was maybe 5*)


----------



## Joe46

I did a lot a lot of single jacking. Wife knew where I was cutting. The couple times I did get hurt there was a crew around.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Joe46 said:


> I did a lot a lot of single jacking. Wife knew where I was cutting. The couple times I did get hurt there was a crew around.


So true, if you're any godamn good you're working for yourself. The logging industry was built off the back of stupid wannabe loggers. If the shoe fits wear it. I've worn it more than once. Lol
If the tree your falling is worth more than your day wage your just getting used up. North America was settled by stupid loggers. So called loggers always let their ego get in the way, plus you can't find a bigger bunch of self deluded bull hitters. Lol
Also, real loggers don't make a career about ratting others out, but I understand why he does this, he's just trying to detract from the fact he never made it beyond packin a fallers wedges. Lol


----------



## Gypo Logger

Sorry everyone, I've been a bit to mouthy lately. Just a bit shack wacky. Not enough bush time.


----------



## Freehand

Rage on John!


----------



## ChoppyChoppy

Who is "he"... me?

I have no idea about ratting anyone, I'm not aware of any illegal activities to rat on even.

I'd guess of all the folks on here I'm in the small percentage that works in the woods for a living.



Gypo Logger said:


> So true, if you're any godamn good you're working for yourself. The logging industry was built off the back of stupid wannabe loggers. If the shoe fits wear it. I've worn it more than once. Lol
> If the tree your falling is worth more than your day wage your just getting used up. North America was settled by stupid loggers. So called loggers always let their ego get in the way, plus you can't find a bigger bunch of self deluded bull hitters. Lol
> Also, real loggers don't make a career about ratting others out, but I understand why he does this, he's just trying to detract from the fact he never made it beyond packin a fallers wedges. Lol


----------



## BeatCJ

ValleyFirewood said:


> Who is "he"... me?



Well, since another poster was quoted, I suspect he hadn't even seen your post. Feeling defensive much?


----------



## Gypo Logger

Sorry guys, I've just been a mouthy douche nozzle lately. I might be just a bit shack wacky. Lol


----------



## madhatte

Gypo Logger said:


> I might be just a bit shack wacky.



"Shack Wacky" is a great line. Consider it borrowed.


----------



## olyman

Gypo Logger said:


> Sorry everyone, I've been a bit to mouthy lately. Just a bit shack wacky. Not enough bush time.


 not so,,you just aint one bit pc............


----------



## Gypo Logger

olyman said:


> not so,,you just aint one bit pc............


What Pc oly?
Don't tell me Progressive Conservative!


----------



## hseII

Gypo Logger said:


> What Pc oly?
> Don't tell me Progressive Conservative!


Police Cheerleader?


----------



## hseII

Gypo Logger said:


> What Pc oly?
> Don't tell me Progressive Conservative!


Pig Catcher?


----------



## olyman

politically correct,, and don't tell me,, that you are anything like the leftists on here., who are not much at all different than communists,, cause I know better.......your conservative, to the center of your core...and live like it also...........


----------



## chuckwood

Well, I read the very first post in this thread, and thought it was great, so much so that I've saved it. Now I go to the last bunch of posts and see that the original topic has been derailed into the usual flame war I can't figure out. Don't have to the time or interest to backtrack to where it came off the rails. But I see the OP is in Alaska, probably out of reach of a cell phone tower. Now I do a lot of solitary logging, but I've never given much thought as to "what if". I use PPE, but that's no guarantee that no blood letting will ever occur. But I do plan on taking my cell phone with me from now on when I'm out cutting by myself. I think that's a real important part of my PPE. I don't ordinarily wear cell phones on my body, mostly only use them for when I'm driving somewhere. I don't like being bothered by calls when I'm doing something, and besides, I've torn up phones in the past wearing them while working.


----------



## olyman

chuckwood said:


> Well, I read the very first post in this thread, and thought it was great, so much so that I've saved it. Now I go to the last bunch of posts and see that the original topic has been derailed into the usual flame war I can't figure out. Don't have to the time or interest to backtrack to where it came off the rails. But I see the OP is in Alaska, probably out of reach of a cell phone tower. Now I do a lot of solitary logging, but I've never given much thought as to "what if". I use PPE, but that's no guarantee that no blood letting will ever occur. But I do plan on taking my cell phone with me from now on when I'm out cutting by myself. I think that's a real important part of my PPE. I don't ordinarily wear cell phones on my body, mostly only use them for when I'm driving somewhere. I don't like being bothered by calls when I'm doing something, and besides, I've torn up phones in the past wearing them while working.


 there are newer phones, that have nearly break proof screens,,that you can get a HARD plastic case for them,,and that ,makes the two nearly bomb proof........


----------



## slowp

olyman said:


> there are newer phones, that have nearly break proof screens,,that you can get a HARD plastic case for them,,and that ,makes the two nearly bomb proof........



Those do no good if you can't get reception. In my area (don't move here) once you are out of the main valley, places with cell phone reception are non-existent. There are a few spots, that if the moon is full, the month ends with an R, the stars are aligned, and the cows facing north, you might get one bar. But those spots are hard to find. I guess you could use that plastic case to keep a farewell note dry for a while. If your cell phone is shiny, you might signal an airplane. That's about all.


----------



## olyman

slowp said:


> Those do no good if you can't get reception. In my area (don't move here) once you are out of the main valley, places with cell phone reception are non-existent. There are a few spots, that if the moon is full, the month ends with an R, the stars are aligned, and the cows facing north, you might get one bar. But those spots are hard to find. I guess you could use that plastic case to keep a farewell note dry for a while. If your cell phone is shiny, you might signal an airplane. That's about all.


 reread chuckwoods post 213 again,,and again,,and again..esp the last two sentences,,which is what I responded to..............


----------



## slowp

olyman said:


> reread chuckwoods post 213 again,,and again,,and again..esp the last two sentences,,which is what I responded to..............



Why? Would a case make reception happen where there is no reception? Should we carry the extra weight of a cell phone inside a pretty case where we can't use it? It makes no sense.


----------



## olyman

slowp said:


> Why? Would a case make reception happen where there is no reception? Should we carry the extra weight of a cell phone inside a pretty case where we can't use it? It makes no sense.


 are you that dense??? he said,,he breaks phones!! that's what I responded to...and do tell, since you DONT own one,,what a hard plastic case weighs?? do tell...


----------



## slowp

If you had ever worked in the PNW woods day after day, you would realize that every little piece of gear adds up and takes either space or adds weight to what you already have to carry. 

Backpackers around here talk of sawing off toothbrush handles to save weight. It all adds up.

We have nasty hills to walk up and down and up and down. It is not Iowa here (thank the Scandihoovian Candle.) Now, where is that moderator? He's calling me names...whaaaaah.....

A picture of gentler ground. No cell phone reception near here either.


----------



## slowp

Now I've got to go do some work. We leftists don't have time to dilly dally all day.


----------



## chuckwood

slowp said:


> Now I've got to go do some work. We leftists don't have time to dilly dally all day.



How do you leftists feel about going and doing all that work and then paying taxes to support people who don't?


----------



## atpchas

chuckwood said:


> How do you leftists feel about going and doing all that work and then paying taxes to support people who don't?


This "leftist" feels better about that than tax law that lets hedge managers pay a lower tax rate than policemen, that lets mega corps avoid paying taxes to support the infrastructure that makes their profits possible, that gives many billions each year to industries that are already incredibly profitable (fossil fuel, agribusiness, big pharma), to name a few issues that get me exercised. Then again, I live in a state that helps make it possible for Tennessee to take about $1.70 in benefits from the government for every $1 it sends to DC, so I guess I'm used to supporting folks who can't/won't support themselves.


----------



## Gologit

atpchas said:


> This "leftist" feels better about that than tax law that lets hedge managers pay a lower tax rate than policemen, that lets mega corps avoid paying taxes to support the infrastructure that makes their profits possible, that gives many billions each year to industries that are already incredibly profitable (fossil fuel, agribusiness, big pharma), to name a few issues that get me exercised. Then again, I live in a state that helps make it possible for Tennessee to take about $1.70 in benefits from the government for every $1 it sends to DC, so I guess I'm used to supporting folks who can't/won't support themselves.



Well said.


----------



## slowp

chuckwood said:


> How do you leftists feel about going and doing all that work and then paying taxes to support people who don't?



This is not a political forum. It is a forum about forestry and logging. I have friends who have a daughter with a very severe case of Down's syndrome. I don't mind paying taxes to support her. Like it or not, we need to support needy people and there will always be people taking advantage of it. Should we cut off help to everybody because of the cheaters? Let them die? You are probably against abortion rights, but then are unwilling to face the needs of neglected and retarded kids and adults. 

What if you are visiting my part of the woods and get lost and hurt? Should my county have to use my tax dollars for the search and rescue? You were after all, just recreating and don't pay local taxes.

There are quite a few scenarios we could do, but this isn't the right place for that.


----------



## slowp

Goodness. It is bedtime for this "leftist". Good night Comrades.


----------



## olyman

slowp said:


> Now I've got to go do some work. We leftists don't have time to dilly dally all day.


 you've dilly dallied all your life,,why change now???


----------



## madhatte

Alright, folks. This isn't a political forum and some heads need to cool down very soon.


----------



## chuckwood

My first logging accident wasn't with a chainsaw, it was a hatchet accident. I was around 12 years old, and in our woods. The blade cut through my shoe and into my foot. I saw some blood coming out of the shoe, but it really didn't hurt too much, so at first I was more curious than alarmed. But I figured I'd better take my shoe and sock off and see just what had happened. I felt fine until the sock came off. For the first time, I got a close look at what the inside of myself looked like. I could see cut muscle tissue, membranes, gooey looking stuff, a blood vessel or two, etc. This was a big shock. I'd never really looked *inside* myself before. And that's when I experienced the phenomenon of shock, what happens to you as an accident victim. I was baffled as to why I had this big open wound yet there was hardly any pain. I also got dizzy and light headed right after I got a look at the damage. I managed to get my shoe back on and made it back to the house. Our family doctor's office was just a mile away, so one of my parents (can't remember which one, probably my mom) drove me over there to get stitches. It was really no big deal. I was in the waiting room only for maybe 5 minutes, I was bumped up to the head of the line. But by then, my foot was really hurting, and it didn't help when the nurse showed up with a big syringe full of Novocaine to make me numb for the stitches. That needle going in multiple times hurt worse than the initial hatchet bite did. That's how things were in the late 50's. Today it's a lot more complicated and expensive.


----------



## BeatCJ

chuckwood said:


> That needle going in multiple times hurt worse than the initial hatchet bite did.



Boy, ain't that the truth. Fingers are even worse.


----------



## olyman

BeatCJ said:


> Boy, ain't that the truth. Fingers are even worse.


 novacaine,,one needle....


----------



## northmanlogging

I like to watch the needles going in. And the stitches. Wasn't too thrilled with my leg flopping around or my crooked arm.


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> I like to watch the needles going in. And the stitches. Wasn't too thrilled with my leg flopping around or my crooked arm.


Just a flesh wound. Lol


----------



## northmanlogging

Oh that sucks they gotta debraid it... eww

Is that a forehead? Hope they gave the guy a mirror, hard to watch yer own forehead getting stitched


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> Oh that sucks they gotta debraid it... eww
> 
> Is that a forehead? Hope they gave the guy a mirror, hard to watch yer own forehead getting stitched


Ya, that's my empty scull. The Doc took them and sent them to me. It didn't hurt until 4 hrs later. Lol.


----------



## northmanlogging

Oh fun... explains a few things

Did they get all the bits of what is that moss out of there?


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> Oh fun... explains a few things
> 
> Did they get all the bits of what is that moss out of there?


Not sure if they got everything, but it sure feels itchy, but that might just be the crabs. Lol


----------



## northmanlogging

If you got crabs on yer forehead you should maybe learn to read some dirty magazines and take notes.

Really though nerve damage is a *****.


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> If you got crabs on yer forehead you should maybe learn to read some dirty magazines and take notes.
> 
> Really though nerve damage is a *****.


That one went right over my head. Lol


----------



## northmanlogging

the nerve damage is more then likely whats causing the itching


Unless you have lice...

Crabs tend to hang out where things are a little more... moist... and dark...


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> the nerve damage is more then likely whats causing the itching
> 
> 
> Unless you have lice...
> 
> Crabs tend to hang out where things are a little more... moist... and dark...


You mean where the sun don't shine?
Remember Cheech and Chong did Buster De Body Crab who hitched a ride on a logger and a biker?


----------



## Bwildered

Gypo Logger said:


> Just a flesh wound. LolView attachment 428381


Just missed the Darwin awards again?
Thansk


----------



## Gypo Logger

Bwildered said:


> Just missed the Darwin awards again?
> Thansk


I was hoping for the Darwin Award, but it appears you beat me to it! Lol
It's nice that we're all getting along again.


----------



## olyman

Bwildered said:


> Just missed the Darwin awards again?
> Thansk


 me thinks,,by the way you post on here,,you know nothing of what gypo has done...better to say nothing,,mr big shot...


----------



## Bwildered

olyman said:


> me thinks,,by the way you post on here,,you know nothing of what gypo has done...better to say nothing,,mr big shot...


From what little I've seen a disclaimer like " do not attempt this at home " would help, LOL
Thansk


----------



## Gypo Logger

Bwildered said:


> From what little I've seen a disclaimer like " do not attempt this at home " would help, LOL
> Thansk


How dare you question my felon techniques! Lol


----------



## Gypo Logger

I wouldn't mind if this thread was a hidden stickie. It would clear the board and just be another chapter in the book.


----------



## 2dogs

I found out today a friend of mine was hit by a widow maker a month ago. He survived but his days in the woods are over. He took a limb on his shoulder pad, which according to the doctor, saved his life. He ended up with a broken collar bone, four broken ribs, and a shattered scapula. Cal Fire refused to drive across the bridge the log trucks had been using, fortunately the ambulance saw no problem doing so. Before the job started the company identified locations where there was cell phone service and landing zones and both were used. It took 30 minutes for the ambulance to reach him (he was working right along a road) and then maybe another 30 minutes to get to the LZ. It will be a very long recovery.


----------



## Gypo Logger

I think he will be alright, loggers have strong wills. Tell him to keep his chin up. Loggers have no scars for sale.
Tel him John the Cull from Canada wishes him the best.


----------



## 2dogs

Gypo Logger said:


> I think he will be alright, loggers have strong wills. Tell him to keep his chin up. Loggers have no scars for sale.
> Tel him John the Cull from Canada wishes him the best.


 I will tell him. Thank you.


----------



## madhatte

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to him.


----------



## 2dogs

madhatte said:


> Best wishes for a speedy recovery to him.


Thanks


----------



## Gypo Logger

We of the woods can take a pretty hard hit. I bet he pulls out of it.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> I found out today a friend of mine was hit by a widow maker a month ago. He survived but his days in the woods are over. He took a limb on his shoulder pad, which according to the doctor, saved his life. He ended up with a broken collar bone, four broken ribs, and a shattered scapula. Cal Fire refused to drive across the bridge the log trucks had been using, fortunately the ambulance saw no problem doing so. Before the job started the company identified locations where there was cell phone service and landing zones and both were used. It took 30 minutes for the ambulance to reach him (he was working right along a road) and then maybe another 30 minutes to get to the LZ. It will be a very long recovery.



Sorry about your friend. CalFire give any reason why they wouldn't cross the bridge?
ID-ing cell phone spots is a good idea. On most of our jobs you'll see a big letter C painted on trees in white. It helps.


----------



## madhatte

I'm ID'ing cell phone coverage on the fort in GIS right now. Eventually I'll have a local map that will identify not only the spots where the coverage works but also where it specifically doesn't. I'll grade them by color, I think.


----------



## 2dogs

Well Steve, my friend who was injured, can move his arm a little bit and the swelling is down enough for an MRI. The bad news is the MRI revealed a severely torn rotator cuff. I have a mildly torn RC from helping a friend process firewood last summer. After two painful cortisone shots I can move my arm about half as much as before the tear. I probably won't need surgery. He will.

It will 2 months before he can take a ride into the woods because of the rough roads.


----------



## BeatCJ

Gologit said:


> CalFire give any reason why they wouldn't cross the bridge?



Many fire agencies are implementing policies where we won't cross an un-rated private bridge. Since most states allow fire apparatus to have overweight axles without permits, we tend to be a little leary of bridges. There have been several incidents where fire apparatus have collapsed bridges that have survived use by other commercial trucks.


----------



## Gologit

BeatCJ said:


> Many fire agencies are implementing policies where we won't cross an un-rated private bridge. Since most states allow fire apparatus to have overweight axles without permits, we tend to be a little leary of bridges. There have been several incidents where fire apparatus have collapsed bridges that have survived use by other commercial trucks.



The collapsed bridges...were they in Washington? I don't remember that happening down here. I've seen a couple of Cats go through old and badly maintained bridges but I can't think of a case where a truck, fire or otherwise, collapsed a bridge.
Examples?


----------



## rwoods

Bob, I don't have a picture but one of our firetrucks collapsed a short bridge here in town just last year at a small apartment complex. After the accident, it looked to me to have been more of a homemade concrete box culvert than a bridge; the truck didn't care. It had been in use for years and appeared to be of substance particularly given its short length, but again, the truck didn't care. I believe the FD took it to heart and made note. Ron


----------



## Gypo Logger

Never had a bridge colapse on me, but I've had a rear tire pass me in a 69 F250 while packing a cord of cedar posts.
Never a dull moment.


----------



## rwoods

Gypo Logger said:


> ... Never a dull moment.



No doubt in my mind.  Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Most of the really sketchy bridges have been dealt with around here...

There where a few that where still made from old growth logs tossed across a ravine and covered with rough cut 4xwhatevers... and never painted or maintained.... since the CCC days and the beginnings of log trucks. Guard rails like 4" high and a drop of 50-100' a guy could see through them in more then a few places


----------



## Gologit

Same thing here...on private ground anyway. The log bridges are getting rare now. We took some out completely because of liabilty concerns from hunters and tourists. They were still fairly sound but narrow and with the 4" side rails you mentioned there wasn't much room for error.
I see a lot of old railroad flat cars still in use. They seem to hold up pretty well.
Bridge _approaches_ were usually more of a problem than the bridges themselves. Especially after a wet winter with high runoffs.


----------



## northmanlogging

yup, dirt and a few rocks don't mean much to a swollen creek that resembles a river...


----------



## madhatte

One of the drainages on DNR land west of Oly washes out every couple of years. The last two have been cement and steel and two lanes wide. The current one is three seasons old. We'll see how long it lasts.


----------



## BeatCJ

Here's an article I know of: http://www.mailtribune.com/article/20140403/NEWS/404030310/0/

A friend of mine was a Lieutenant with a fire department near Hillsboro, OR (he's a retired chief now, so a while ago) and had it happen to him. I couldn't find a report or article, I think it was before the Internet was invented.

A quick Google search found these:
2014 Warfield, KY http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-pro...y-fire-truck-flips-in-bridge-collapse-2-hurt/
2011 Santa Clara area http://www.losaltosonline.com/news/sections/news/215-news-briefs/25302-J23751


----------



## Gologit

That's good information. Thanks.


----------



## BeatCJ

In my area, we have a few private bridges. About half of the owners chose to have them load rated when we sent them a letter saying we would not cross them. All of those turned out to be safe. We put up signs that conform to the federal standard for signs, so now everybody, UPS, concrete truck drivers, whoever knows if the bridge is safe to cross. There are a couple of bridges that we can't cross, one because the deck is rotting and we would likely drop a wheel through it with about 2/3 of our trucks. We also have a bridge on a county road we can't cross with several of our trucks. You can't tell by looking, and I know that people drive across them overweight all the time. I would hate to be in the rig that finally causes the failure.


----------



## 2dogs

I just signed the entire family up for helicopter membership through CalSTAR. The membership has agreements with several other helos throughout the western US. The membership was only $50.00 for the four of us. Consider it!


----------



## 2dogs

2dogs said:


> I found out today a friend of mine was hit by a widow maker a month ago. He survived but his days in the woods are over. He took a limb on his shoulder pad, which according to the doctor, saved his life. He ended up with a broken collar bone, four broken ribs, and a shattered scapula. Cal Fire refused to drive across the bridge the log trucks had been using, fortunately the ambulance saw no problem doing so. Before the job started the company identified locations where there was cell phone service and landing zones and both were used. It took 30 minutes for the ambulance to reach him (he was working right along a road) and then maybe another 30 minutes to get to the LZ. It will be a very long recovery.


 I heard an update today. Steve is looking at surgery fairly soon. I guess he is a real mess.


----------



## Fishmax2

well, in my truck I carry a well stocked first aid kit like a jobsite has, plus clotting powder since I am on blood thinners. I always carry my h&k usp compact with me on my side. I havent been wearing a hard hat, might start, always wear hearing protection and glasses with side shields. Just recently bought a set of chaps, but haven't "tested" them yet or my pants before. I am always felling alone, but always have a cell phone, and someone always knows where I am, and when I should be home. If I don't call, they come a looking.


----------



## northmanlogging

So you have yer pistol in case you meet a tweeker in the woods, but no hard hat in case something falls and hits you?

While not taking away the pistol, your far more likely to get killed by falling debris than a tweeker. 

(As a side note, my .357 goes with me literally everywhere, but it stays in the crummy while I'm at work, unless I'm in a particularly crummy neighborhood then its in my pocket)


----------



## Kodiakmac

Well, I always thought that if I got hurt in a logging related accident it would be way in the bush. But it can happen pretty close to home.

On April 1st last year I did some skidding and bucking till about 4:30 pm and parked the skidder beside our garage. I went out at 6 pm to throw a tarp over the skidder because I had just heard the weather forecast and it predicted rain and freezing rain - I try to keep water off my old bush buggy. I was dressed in sneakers, jeans and a T-shirt; it was just around the freezing point and I was only going to be outside for 2 minutes. 

I pulled the tarp up and over the skidder. The parking spot was completely ice-covered, so before I stepped down off the skidder, I spied a frozen rut in the ice I could put my right foot in so that it wouldn't slide when I stepped down. To make a long story short, I stepped down, putting my right foot into that tire-lug rut, and at the same time started to reach for the tarp straps hanging on the side of the garage. My left foot slipped off the skidder rung, and all my weight torqued onto my right leg - which couldn't slip or slide because my foot was in that rut. Snap, bang...down I went. My right leg broke in four places below my knee and the tibia came out through the side of my leg about three inches above my ankle. 

I was in a bit of a bind. I didn't have my cell phone, my wife wasn't getting home till 9 or 9:30, the temperature was going to fall to 20 F, I was underdressed, and with the protruding bone I knew there was a darned good chance of shock setting in. So I had a rather miserable 150 foot crawl across the yard and up 10 steps into the house. Never knew I could swear in so many languages. To top it all off, at one point when I was crawling I looked around and my wonder-dog German Shepherd was helping out by licking my blood on the ice and snow. I guess that's what they mean when they talk about adding insult to injury. 

In any event, never too old to learn some things, eh? 

First of all, after talking to my surgeon, other patients, and people in the physio-therapist clinic, it became pretty apparent that the great majority of people injure themselves doing the simple little things they have done a thousand times before - one time out of ten thousand something extra enters the mix and crap happens. And I think we get pretty complacent about our "routine" movements. Let's put it this way: I'm getting on and off my skidder now with a bit less speed and a lot more thought and I'm paying more attention when I'm doing simple things like going up and down stairs.

Second lesson. I take my cell phone with me now even if I step out to throw seeds in the bird feeder.

Number three: I dress for the occasion.

And number four.....I am teaching my wife to tarp my skidder! (okay, I'm just kidding on that one )) )


----------



## madhatte

Grim story, good lesson. Thank you.


----------



## northmanlogging

Wait yer dog didn't run to the neighbors for help, fire that guy!

Crawling with broke stuff sucks, crawling through snow sucks more...


----------



## Kodiakmac

northmanlogging said:


> _*Wait yer dog didn't run to the neighbors for help*_, fire that guy!
> 
> Crawling with broke stuff sucks, crawling through snow sucks more...



Lesson number 5: don't get a German Shepherd from Quebec - must be the government-run daycare system ruining their instincts!


----------



## northmanlogging

Oh, so he only speaks Frenchish, and drinks the blood of innocents?


----------



## Philip Wheelock

Kodiakmac said:


> ...I take my cell phone with me now even if I step out to throw seeds in the bird feeder...


A couple of towns over (Wrentham), an older guy cutting a fair ways into his property _without a cell phone_ got his legs pinned by a tree. A couple of nuns were walking in the adjacent property and heard his faint calls for help. Taken to the hospital with leg injuries and hypothermia. Close call.


----------



## Gypo Logger

I told my first lie, Butch asked me if I'd had any subsequent bush rash. So... i need to come clean.
A springpole took off my nose, however, I was miles away from the nurses station. So I grafted it back on with some duct tape. Having attached what was left of my nose and with blood in my eyes, I put my nose on upside down, so when it rains, i rarely venture outside without a hardhat for fear I might drown.


----------



## 056 kid

so that's where all your brains went. They fell right out of your nose hole.


----------



## 2dogs

I renewed my CalStar membership today. $50.00 for the entire family for a year.


----------



## madhatte

What is CalStar, and is there a WAStar equivalent, and do I need it?


----------



## jasper nl

Last year someone wass kiled by accident in this part of holland 20 meters from the road he cald911 by himself the couldnt find him he was working in a plot nekst to a frend of mine verry strange feeling chopper landing in your field wilst plowing


----------



## Gypo Logger

jasper nl said:


> Last year someone wass kiled by accident in this part of holland 20 meters from the road he cald911 by himself the couldnt find him he was working in a plot nekst to a frend of mine verry strange feeling chopper landing in your field wilst plowing


Yes, it's a dangerous game, but a life that is hard to give up on when It's in you blood come bust or boom.
Eventually, downing timber just becomes second nature, even though we look up every so often.
Regardless, we never get tired of it all.


----------



## jasper nl

Gypo Logger said:


> Yes, it's a dangerous game, but a life that is hard to give up on when It's in you blood come bust or boom.
> Eventually, downing timber just becomes second nature, even though we look up every so often.
> Regardless, we never get tired of it all.


I dit some dangerous work bevore loading ships partly troppical hardwood i have seen a couple of accidents but till now i was verry lucky axt in my leg was til now the hardest thing


----------



## isaaccarlson

Life is incredibly fragile and everything we do carries a chance of injury or death, that's just the way it is. There is nothing we can do that does not involve that risk. Felling trees becomes something that you could do in your sleep, but we still need to pay attention and let people know where we are. I have a family and I want them to know where I am. I like to work with a buddy because it helps to have someone to talk to and sometimes you just feel creeped out in the woods and having a buddy with you helps with that feeling. There have been times when a couple of us don't feel ok about going in certain woods at certain times, so we change plans. My dad's woods are hit and miss for that creepy feeling.


----------



## Gypo Logger

I gotta find me a women with a chainsaw, to spend the winter with me.


----------



## WoodTick007

Gypo Logger said:


> I gotta find me a women with a chainsaw, to spend the winter with me.



Well, I have come the conclusion watching that music video was 3 minutes and 11 seconds of my life not well spent... Is anyone else who saw/heard that interested in joining a "woman with a chainsaw" support group?


----------



## Gypo Logger

WoodTick007 said:


> Well, I have come the conclusion watching that music video was 3 minutes and 11 seconds of my life not well spent... Is anyone else who saw/heard that interested in joining a "woman with a chainsaw" support group?


Sorry, I agree, here's a better one.


----------



## WoodTick007

Gypo Logger said:


> Sorry, I agree, here's a better one.


 Tom the Woodcutter ROCKS! 
How come you don't post more youtube videos?


----------



## Gypo Logger

WoodTick007 said:


> Tom the Woodcutter ROCKS!
> How come you don't post more youtube videos?


Got no time to post more vids right now. It's minus 22F here right now and glad I have 19 sticks of wood left.
Been unseasonably cool up here now. Bringing the saw into the shack is customary procedure.
Still my 385XPG gently weeps.


----------



## olyman

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 556787
> 
> Got no time to post more vids right now. It's minus 22F here right now and glad I have 19 sticks of wood left.
> Been unseasonably cool up here now. Bringing the saw into the shack is customary procedure.
> Still my 385XPG gently weeps.


long time no post.. tooo much imbibing?????


----------



## Gypo Logger

olyman said:


> long time no post.. tooo much imbibing?????


Unseasonably warm here. Days are 12 hrs. long here now. Really glad I'm in the north.


----------



## Jonstark

Haven’t read every reply in this thread so forgive me if it’s been covered...
CELL PHONE, SPOT, RADIO
I’m alone on my woodlot alot and often nobody knows it.
If I get pinned my cell phone better not be in my shirt pocket back in the truck! Lost a neighbor a few years ago who got pinned, couldn’t get to his cell phone 10 yards away and froze to death overnight. I sure don’t want to look bad in an accident investigation. Neither do you!


----------



## jomoco

I've noticed that being out of cell phone range in the sticks?

Doesn't always mean you can't dial 911 and get emergency service, as a rule.

Round here in the sticks anyways.

Workin solo has a few drawbacks though no doubt.

Takin your own sweet time is conducive to solo work though, IME.

Jomoco


----------



## madhatte

jomoco said:


> I've noticed that being out of cell phone range in the sticks?
> 
> Doesn't always mean you can't dial 911 and get emergency service, as a rule.



That has to do with the way cell towers are licensed and bandwidth leased. You may be out of range from the tower you have paid for service from, but not a different provider's tower. In that case, they are required by law to provide emergency service. By the same token, a cell phone with no paid service can't be used for a normal call but can still be used for 911 calls. 

However, if you are simply out of range from all towers, you'll find that you're still out of luck.


----------



## 2dogs

Here is a link to the Green Sheet (accident report and evaluation) on a Cal Fire sawyer who was hit by a springpole. It was a very serious injury that has probably ended this man's career.

https://www.wildfirelessons.net/Hig...6db-5f49-b82f-93e0-97b90f7b5225&forceDialog=0


----------



## madhatte

Uggh, grim. Five bucks says this one's ripple effect makes agencies even more risk-averse and they will fail to certify new "C" fallers as a result, and hazard trees will be left uncut. I know I've been unable to get anybody to sponsor me as a "C" faller trainee for some time now. 

In other news, I finally managed to find a GSA vendor who stocks the large Bullard helmets, and HALLELUJAH the suspension doesn't grind on my head any more! Thank you so much for the tip!


----------



## 2dogs

Or hire more contractors who offer worker's comp and that's it while underpaying the fallers.

Yeah us melon heads need to stick together. I have to add more padding to the front of the suspension or the plastic grid wears on my skull and gives me a headache. I tell people (who will listen) that the reason I'm so smart is I have a big head and a big brain. I also have more Neanderthal DNA than 75% of 23andMe's customers. So... uh what was my point again?


----------



## jasper nl

2dogs said:


> Or hire more contractors who offer worker's comp and that's it while underpaying the fallers.
> 
> Yeah us melon heads need to stick together. I have to add more padding to the front of the suspension or the plastic grid wears on my skull and gives me a headache. I tell people (who will listen) that the reason I'm so smart is I have a big head and a big brain. I also have more Neanderthal DNA than 75% of 23andMe's customers. So... uh what was my point again?


no problem we all are normall just the rest are idiots everywhere in the world with there ac and heated offices


----------



## madhatte

2dogs said:


> So... uh what was my point again?



I dunno about _your_ point, but _mine_ is right on the top of my melon head where it belongs!


----------



## RandyMac

Yeah and yer hat spins in the breeze.


----------



## PNWfaller509

Back in 2004 i was falling on yarder ground and went to dump a couple limb-locked handfall. Both were probably 2 foot across and 100-120 footers. One tree was culled out on the top and ended up coming straight down on me, knocked me clean out and somehow my bar and chain on my 395 husky was buried in my upper right arm all the way to the bone.

Lost 1,500 ml of blood and ended up having surgery to remove bone fragments and repair the muscle. 52 stitches total.

Also had a follow up surgery to remove a piece wood chip they missed that swelled up the area like half a golf ball.

Also cut my shin right under my chaps. Chipped the bone in three places. Can't remember how many stitches.

Best advice if you are seriously injured is to stay calm and control your breathing. Always keep a complete first aid kit in your work rig.


----------



## Huskybill

I carried a first aid kit in the truck, but the truck had 15” of lift. That could be a problem if I was hurt bad. I did most of my dangerous work(felling) when I had helpers with me. But still cut the trees up alone.

I went to the local drug store to purchase first aid stuff to stop the bleeding and wrap it up. The guy thought I was nuts. It’s not if it’s going to happen it’s when it’s going to happen.


----------



## alleyyooper

My clown friends just had to make sure I was prepared when out doors.
A first aid kit built by them.
The kit contained *2 maxi pads* since the last time I had bled really bad and scared Dean some thing awful, *several rolls of gauze in different widths,* some *white medical tape*, a *part of a roll of duct tape* and a *few needles and spool of white thread* plus *bottles of disinfectants and tubes of salves.*

Never ever hurt your self when with friends and not be prepared.

 Al


----------



## Huskybill

Maybe a good idea is to take your belt and punch extra holes in it so it fits your leg. For compression when needed. It’s always on you.


----------



## 2dogs

My Buckingham pouch that is attached to the belt on my chaps contains a SWAT-T tourniquet, and Israeli bandage ,a bite stick, and a few boo-boo items. This is a much better choice rather that relying on your belt but Huskybill's post proves he is thinking ahead. Please everybody, carry a personal first aid kit and have a trauma box in the truck.


----------



## 2dogs

BTW right now I'm carrying more fire tools than first aid supplies. Having been in the world of fire equipment my entire life and of course being a career firefighter and wildland fire contractor I think about this more than most, but fire is a pretty obvious concern when the temps are 100 degrees with low humidity. I DO NOT work when there is a red flag "concern". I am very conscious about fuel geysers and the state of my fuel cans. I don't over fill the Dolmar and at home all the fuel cans sit on concrete to keep cool. Each morning I check the cooler for ice and the back pump for water.


----------



## alleyyooper

Doesn't do any good tyo have your first aid idems in your truck when you several hundred yards away and bleeding like a stuck pig.

I've been there once bleeding really bad and no way to stop it except wads of grass.

No more, carry stuff I may need and have in with in reach all the time. A bunch of the stuff is in my pant's pockets.


 Al


----------



## Canyon Angler

Pretty sure I've read this entire thread, but one thing I don't remember being discussed (with the exception of a few posts above on this page) is, What goes into your mobile first-aid kit?

I've seen pics of climbers carrying first-aid kits on their saddles. They're small kits, so my question is, what should go into such a kit when space/weight is at such a premium?

I'm thinking a good tourniquet, Quick Clot / Celox pad, roll of gauze, roll of elastic tape, Epipen (I'm allergic to some bees) maybe some Crazy Glue...?

Since the land I often work on is in a cell phone "dead zone," one thing I also carry is a $60 Baofeng UV82HP transceiver, which would allow me to call the 911 dispatcher and police on the road directly...this is illegal but not in a life-and-death emergency under the CFR...


----------



## northmanlogging

My falling belt has a triangle bandage, roll of gauze, multi tool, hand full of band aides and a couple of steril bandage pad things, all fits in vietnam era mag pouch.

Larger trauma kit in the crummy


----------



## CLASSIIILVR

Been in the woods 35+ yrs and those are as solid as words come! Unfortunately, ive had more than saw wounds and have had well over 40 surgeries putting me back together again! No walking out of that one....it was hanging from a basket under a heli for quite a while! LOL! Anyway, solid post! thanks


----------



## 2dogs

While I don't agree with everything said in this article it is well written and thought provoking. I'm certainly glad the faller walked away.

https://www.wildfirelessons.net/Hig...8b5-8b11-020c-14f3-29d74298aedd&forceDialog=0


----------



## Ted Jenkins

When I work alone I know that this morning could be my last. Raced motorcycles for several decades where as there was a funeral at least once a month. We all just said yeah so and so was great lets go racing. Grew up on an air force base with lots of aviation accidents just figured no big deal. Almost seventy when the right accident happens no big deal. For the last ten years have been working on a fuel reduction project that would take at least an hour for a medevac chopper to arrive, but also an hour away from cell service. So answer is if you want to see your grand kids do not have a fatal accent. Thanks


----------



## viking59

I never pick the saw up before I have 3 items in my saw chaps front pocket. An Adventure Medical Kits Clotting Sponge, a SWAT-T Tourniquet, and a fully charged phone.


----------



## catbuster

I don’t think I’ve put my two cents in yet. I don’t go out alone. Cheap insuarance. I don’t mean Snort the dog (see below), I mean a human being. My usual cutting partner and I both at least EM-R, and she & I both carry Israeli bandages and tourniquets, plus a couple pads, just enough to get out, to the truck and slow the bleeding. When you get cut, the most important thing is to stop/slow the bleeding and bug out to more advanced care. Having another person to drag your ass out if you lose consciousness is really helpful. 

I get it, it’s not easy and not practical all the time. But I can afford not to go alone. 

I’ve seen people get hurt out here, and I’ve also responded to chainsaw injuries. They are nasty, but bleeding to death is just not high on my list of things to do. 

Chainsaw injuries, of course, aren’t the only things that will hurt you out here, but they’re prevalent. Hits from broken cables under tension, crushing by equipment, and so on and so forth. My advice has been to just keep your head on a swivel and pay attention, and as we’ve all heard and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Training/slowing down is probably betted than being hurt.


----------



## TBS

I carry a medical kit with me and my cellphone which is a 50/50 shot of reception. One big thing I've noticed with these beetle killed pines is for the tops to come down as you start felling them, sometimes it is half a 150 footer and I see a lot of people felling trees that don't watch the top or canopy, if you don't look up you won't see whats coming down and if your ear plugs are in and the saws screamin you will not hear it coming.


----------



## 2dogs

Cody threw a 32" chain yesterday that wrapped around his leg and hurt him enough to knock him to his knees. He was wearing wrap around chaps but the chain hit him on the back of his thigh. He immediately grabbed his leg and then checked his hands. No blood, just a strange bruise. He was a long ways from help.


----------



## Ted Jenkins

I have a cell phone ,but no reception. As a added precaution I carry a emergency radio. of course every one has duct tape. Super glue works well too. I tell the kid do not go looking for me as I already done most every thing I want. My Grand Daughter might not pay any attention to my request though. Biggest safety tip stop when you are tired. Thanks


----------



## Clark10

Just read through this all....whew! I work alone more than I would like to. I do check in on cell with my wife and carry much of the important stuff mentioned. I appreciate everyone who has added to this thread. I noted a couple of things I have but need to keep closer at hand and plan to make adjustments tomorrow before I head back into the woods.

Way back when I bought my first new saw I actually read the manual that came with it. One idea that stuck with me was that injuries happen right before lunch and just before quitting time. The take away for me was to be aware of fatigue and poor judgement around these times. I have heeded the advice and put more mental energy into evaluating my actions and decisions around these times and I take time during fueling to take a moment to reevaluate. Especially when working alone. I think this extra time assessing energy, hazards, and mental state have kept me on the job for more hours than if I hadn't.

Incident: It's not just the big stuff that may take you off the job. A lot of good advice on here is to be alert and maintain active situational awareness. However, it's little stuff that can add up to compromise this important frame of mind. I share this recent experience I had to illustrate.

Just the other day I was getting a good amount of work done. This made me pretty happy as I had been behind my projected goal for the month and I was trying to get some hours in on this specific unit. I had been working on slash covered ground removing regrowth maple stem clusters, 4+ stems 5-10 inches in diameter growing tangled together from stumps left from previous harvest years before. I don't like maple; barber chairs, slippery to walk on, limbs always seem to find a way to slap or trip me up in some way, etc. I worked for a while and things were going pretty smoothly. I'm in my groove and stems are going down just fine. I stop to fuel just about 30 min. before I think I should quit for lunch and hear shots. Not uncommon in our neck of the woods but this sounds like they are just over a slight rise and like I'm directly down range. So I jump in my rig, make some calls, and head around to the area the shots are coming from. Couple of guys on the neighboring land are sighting in rifles. They pack up and leave so no more issue. Great, I head back to the unit but now I have a greater sense of urgency because I really wanted to finish what I thought I should get done before lunch. So instead of stopping for lunch a few minutes early I get back to work. Now I'm working distracted, cold, and doubling my self generated mental pressure. I misjudge a lean on a stem and hang it up. I'd used my escape route and was a good distance away from stump but instead of waiting as long as usual to be sure that all had settled I looked back down at the ground and started to take a step. Best I can figure is a 12 foot long 3 inch diameter dead branch released from the canopy, slithered down the trunk and hit a fork in the tree to launch in a horizontal direction, which sends it way out to where I'm. It glances off my helmet and punches me in the shoulder. Next thing I know I'm on the ground looking at my still running saw a few feet away. I stay calm, lie there a few seconds and let my body report in to my brain. The pain in my shoulder is pretty noteworthy, my head is working pretty good though. I do a body scan and find no blood and everything moves. I turn off the saw, move out of the area, looking up and around with new vigor, and assess the situation. I break for lunch and then decide to call it a day. 

It took me three days before I could use my shoulder well enough to raise the saw effectively. I was lucky as it could have been worse. However, I think it could have been avoided

What I took away;
1. Working alone can reduce successful outcomes if injured. A few inches to the right and I might not have been conscious or able to call for help if needed. The saw could have made contact with my body and created additional serious injury. 
2. I'm reminded to keep my head in the woods where I'm working and not create self imposed pressures or timelines that take my focus off my work.
3. I should stick to the protocols that I've adopted over the years and which keep me safe and working. Pushing into lunch time was a bad idea. Planning more time to complete tasks and taking frequent brakes when working alone is smart.
4. I'm reminded to be alert when things are moving and take time to see where it all settles. When the tree hung up I should have kept my eyes up longer and removed my hearing protection before glancing away. I might have heard the limb moving in the canopy if I had.
5. I was reminded that small stuff can create big injuries. A 4 inch diameter limb that is 12 feet long can really pack a wallop when falling from 40 feet up. One doesn't have to be bringing down big wood to get a big hurt.

I'm thankful that I was given this reminder and was able to walk away mostly unscathed. I'm truly thankful that I'm still able to go into the woods tomorrow and help support my family. 

I find it good to reevaluate safety and think of what if scenarios. I think of this thread as a solo loggers safety talk. Stay safe and thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.


----------



## Huskybill

I carried a first aid kit in the truck under the right side seat. I had large gauge pads. Rolls of adhesive tape.

I fabricated a Army front bumper and was thinking of mounting a quick disconnect 50 cal ammo can to it on both corners full of first aid supplies.

I had close calls but never seriously got hurt. I was hit in the head when felling the tall tree top hit another tree top and sent a dead branch bomeranging at me. I put my arm up just intime. Another time a oak tree barber chaired and broke off at my cut and I fell to the right side and the trunk went to the left side. Another time I had cut a tree in a clump of tight trees. It got hung straight up. I was cutting 4’ sections to the right and left not paying attention to the v section coming down. When the v section came down I shut the saw off and stepped back. Prayed really fast, it strattled me as it fell. I sat for a minute, gathered my thoughts on what happened and went back cutting.

I never felled trees alone after that. I can buck and load the truck alone.


----------



## peak-industry

good ideas, thanks


----------



## Huskybill

2dogs said:


> Cody threw a 32" chain yesterday that wrapped around his leg and hurt him enough to knock him to his knees. He was wearing wrap around chaps but the chain hit him on the back of his thigh. He immediately grabbed his leg and then checked his hands. No blood, just a strange bruise. He was a long ways from help.



I seen two Mack trucks, one trying to pull the other out of the plumbers trench at a new house. One was going in the wrong direction, snapped 3/8” chain. It whipped up and over the cab broke the windshield, landed on to the hood, each chain half link was imbedded in the steel cab and fiberglass nose. Probably the same bruise on skin.


----------



## 2dogs

A couple of good sources for med gear are Chinook Medical and LA Police Gear. The latter always has stuff on sale. If you are a business you will have to make sure your kits meet state and federal standards. 
We have discussed this many times before but while you need (in my opinion) a large trauma kit in the crummy you should have a small pouch on your person with an Israeli dressing, a tourniquet, and a bite stick at all times. Mine is on my chaps belt but I also have a pouch on my Dolmar that is visible to everyone with the same items. I also stuff a couple cleansing wipes, band aids, Benadryl and Ibuprofen.





Tactical First Aid Kit | Affordable Prices | LA Police Gear


Take your protection to a new level with a tactical first aid kit. From triage to basic family first aid, the LAPG tactical medical kits have what you need.




lapolicegear.com












Chinook Medical Gear, Inc.


Chinook is a Veteran-Owned and Native American Veteran-Owned 8(a) Small Business that provides custom medical solutions for the harshest environments




www.chinookmed.com


----------



## Huskybill

I operated with no cell phones were available at that time. Never thought about getting hurt. As time went on with experience, as I had close calls, I felled trees when I had people with me. I bucked them up and cut tops alone if I had too. Like I said before the first aid kit was in the truck with hospital heavy gause tape, steri strips, alcohol pads, rolls of gause, extra large pads, everything I needed if I got cut.

I think about it know on some jobs I was pretty deep in the forest. No one would hear me scream, I wonder if I could do s o s on a chain saw?


----------



## holeycow

Helicopter used to drop us off in the morning and pick us up at the end of the day at a predetermined location. No communication with anyone. We made plans and stuck to the plan. IF we had radios, they were always dead at the end of the day. The first two-ways I ever used were "Marconi" brand...


----------



## Ted Jenkins

There are many situations where you are just SOL. I am completely aware of that. For most part one can not carry all the stuff that one might need in a serious situation. I depend on duct tape which can close up a wound and stop bleeding. In many situations seconds count so you need to be programmed for the what if. Bleeding is not some thing that means a lot to me. Slipping on a wet log while breaking pelvis hip or? Not being able to crawl to the pickup or camp is a concern. I try to keep my SW emergency radio near. It will get out almost no matter what. It does have many channels and some emergency frequencies. It has a range of about 25 watt and 35 miles. The best first aid is your head. Even when I am anxious or in a hurry I have learned all work stops. I sit down and think about how little work will get done when I have to go to the ER room. Thanks


----------



## Haironyourchest

Buckin' Billy-Rae told the story of his accident on one of his videos. It's quite a story.


----------



## 2dogs

I was working with the inmate crew two weeks ago thinning a narrow strip between the road above and the trail below. The ground was steep and slippery but fairly open where we were. The sawyer was cutting a 6" fir that was leaning side hill, the puller was still passing the last tree to the chain. Another crew member tried to push the falling tree uphill but it was too heavy and fell towards him. Rather than let it go he kept pushing until the tree tore off the stump with the saw running and headed straight for his stomach! The saw stopped maybe 6" away from him! By the time I yelled it was all over and the crew was ready to chain the tree up to the road. I called the captain over and briefed him which made him check where the first aid kit was. It was back at the bus 200 yards back uphill! I grabbed mine and hung it on a stump above the road!
I "always" carry at least an Israeli dressing but this time I was marking trees and had my vest on. I had nothing on me if the crew member got cut. Times like this call for an operational pause. Bring everyone in and spend two minutes calling attention to OUR mistake.


----------



## Redgap

I was doing some clearing by myself on some land out in the boonies, but a buddy said he’d be down from his cabin shortly after I got there. “Shortly after”...about 45 minutes later...a tree rolled over on my foot (another long story) and right up against my shin so I couldn’t sit up straight. Another couple inches and I’d have had some broken bones. My saw had been rolled over but was still running, and I hooked it with my cruiser axe and pulled it over, but I couldn’t get a shot at the tree without getting too close to my leg. Got my cell phone out and tried to call my buddy without success. Tried to call another cabin neighbor but the service was spotty. Finally he replied to a text, but he was miles away. I kept hoping someone would drive by on the remote gravel road slowly enough to see me. Eventually he called my buddy, and he and a neighbor couple showed up. Then more lessons. I told them to grab my spare saw (always bring one), but before the neighbor could start sawing me out, my buddy grabbed a chunk of wood and a stout branch to try to lever the tree off me...but would’ve levered it toward me...which would’ve crushed my foot and shin!! Finally the tree got cut, i got up and walked it off to make sure no bones were broken, and I cleaned off my scrapes. Afterward I wondered if I could’ve worked my knife out of my pocket and scraped enough dirt out from under my boot to wriggle loose. But among other lessons, no more falling trees by myself anymore.


----------



## super rube

Gypo Logger said:


> Although I'm not an expert on the subject, I just wanted to discuss a few things about it.
> First of all, keep your cool and if you still got two legs and a heart beat, you'll probably be ok.
> You can lose alot of blood and still live.
> Finding the trail out can be the biggest problem, that's why snow is a good thing as you can sometimes follow your back trail.
> When hurt you'll have mega adrenalin, so use that to your advantage and when and if you find help, be chipper and laugh a bit, that will help the first responder to act fast and not freak out.
> Saw injuries are mostly just superficial, so keep your cool then too.
> Most injuries are not life threatening and those that are will be read about in the news.
> Once again, keep your cool and enjoy the adrenalin rush and the warm feeling of the blood.
> John


Once I was a logger with my grandpa. Smartest logger I’ve ever known. I quit when he retired. He always said that was good we quit before someone got seriously hurt or killed. He would never let me run a chain saw by myself or anyone else for that matter. I heard some good advice bout the first aid kit and stuff. But a buddy or family member would be a big help if an accident happened. Remember when out in the woods cell phones don’t always work. But a buddy might get in range to call for help. Better safe than sorry. Wood or logs can sometimes wait til another day.


----------



## southpaw

lot of good plans in here , good to always plan and be prepared ..........a double check and update of your emergency gear should have a quick go over a few times a season also


----------



## 2dogs

Has anyone gotten into any spring yellowjacket nest yet? The crew hit a small one yesterday and only one got hit. Unfortunately most of the little demons went up inside his pant leg. He didn't use a strap to keep the pants tight to the boots and he didn't lace his boots properly so they were loose at the top. They went down into his boots on both feet where they stung three or four times on each foot. I gave him a sting eraser which really helped but he suffered for awhile.


----------



## Ted Jenkins

A few summmers ago I rose about 4 AM and went over to an area about 600 yds from my camp in my pickup. About 4:30 to 5 AM I was cutting making progress even though it was not very bright. During the night we had about 2 or 3" of snow. There were a couple blankets that I had wrapped around some ice chests to keep the sun off of them. I noticed that the blackets were soaking wet so I threw them over the side boards of my pickup and kept cutting. Around 8 AM I felt something crawling around on my hands and arms then I got stung. I knew that my hands would swell so time was important. I reeled around seeing that the blankets were covered with bees so ran away from the pickup a few hundred feet to figure what was next. I had some first aid stuff at my camp so that was helpful. Seeing that we had quite dry weather I should have known to not attract bees. I eventually got my sling shot and shot a line over the blankets to pull them to a place they would not bother me. I retrieved the blankets when it was dark which were dry by then. Quite a close call. Yes I had my radios but still a few terrifying moments. Thanks


----------



## northmanlogging

Lost a local logger today. 

no details as yet, its all fairly recent. Not anyone I knew personally.


----------



## pioneerguy600

northmanlogging said:


> Lost a local logger today.
> 
> no details as yet, its all fairly recent. Not anyone I knew personally.


 Can`t give thatpost a ,LIKE. Very sad news indeed.


----------



## catbuster

Don’t like that at all. Everyone should go home at the end of the day.


----------



## 2dogs

I feel a bit sad when I hear this kind of news even though I don't know the person or any details.


----------



## camel2019

Being prepared is a big thing nothing can help if you get crushed. but you and or a friend/coworker could be the only medic avail close enough to do anything. I don’t recommend a first aid kit I recommend a trauma kit and every one should carry a tourniquet.


----------



## Fireman Bill

Hey this is a great topic. I’ve been an EMT for many years and in 2017 went back to certify as a Nationally registered EMT. I seem to learn something everyday.


When I’m in the woods I always let someone know where the area is ill be and the best access. Part of my routine is to pack my trauma kit with me. It is basic and designed to help stop bleed and immobilize fractures. So lots of heavy gauze, lots of stretch cling wrap, lots of medical tape, a roll of duct tape, 6 boxes of cravats, a CAT tourniquet, 4 maxi pads and a bottle of water (handy for eye issues). Practice applying your tourniquet with 1 hand. Wearing PPE goes a long way. I see a lot of people sawing without eye protection or chaps. Such a silly thing to do when they are cheap insurance. I hope everyone is safe and as I get older I’ve learned to slow down and make my steps count.


----------



## FunkyYota

When in took wilderness first responder they taught MARCH. I’m pretty sure it was adopted from TCCC. 

Massive hemorrhage, Airway, Respiration, Circulation, Hypothermia/Head Injury. 

Basically don’t want to bleed out before you get to more sustaining care. I Carry a cat tourniquet and an Israeli bandage pretty much all the time. They’re like the size of a wedge. Combined.


----------



## The Lone Logger

I have a deal with my wife. I need to call her on my flip phone at noon and at 5 p.m. or she knows exaclty where I am and comes looking. Also, my flip phone I keep in my pocket, it does have a GPS to find me if required. I have the first aid kit also. And I am never alone in the woods, God is always with me.


----------



## 2dogs

L A Police Gear has med gear on sale. Lots of good products.


----------



## geofreyt

Gypo Logger said:


> Although I'm not an expert on the subject, I just wanted to discuss a few things about it.
> First of all, keep your cool and if you still got two legs and a heart beat, you'll probably be ok.
> You can lose alot of blood and still live.
> Finding the trail out can be the biggest problem, that's why snow is a good thing as you can sometimes follow your back trail.
> When hurt you'll have mega adrenalin, so use that to your advantage and when and if you find help, be chipper and laugh a bit, that will help the first responder to act fast and not freak out.
> Saw injuries are mostly just superficial, so keep your cool then too.
> Most injuries are not life threatening and those that are will be read about in the news.
> Once again, keep your cool and enjoy the adrenalin rush and the warm feeling of the blood.
> John


Well, I can let you know that if you loose 5 units of blood in the woods you will be in trouble.


----------



## camel2019

For my fellow Canucks has just abut everything you would need they also have surplus field dressings.

https://frontierfirearms.ca/gi-used-ifak-pouch-and-insert-w-tourniquet-and-expired-h-h-bandages/


----------



## Timothy Love

The first job is to stop the bleeding; The second job is to clean the wound. After the bleeding has stopped and have cleaned dirt and debris out of the wound, apply an antiseptic cream and bandage it well.
Do not "clean" a wound in a stream, river, or lake! 
The ability to stop the bleeding, clean, and dress a cut in the wilderness will depend completely upon the quality of your first aid kit. Make sure that the necessary supplies for treating these types of injuries and others before set out on a hike.


----------

