# 3rd possible job. Did I quote it properly?



## Charles B. Garret (Oct 29, 2015)

Today I had a possible business opportunity that I had to quote and here are the trees I quoted.






















For the maple, they wanted one of two things. Either to drop it and haul it away, or to trim it up and thin it out.

The pine they just want dropped.

The quotes are as follows.

Trim and prune the maple (350 -500)

And to fell the tree (900 to 1050)

Dropping the pine (400)

Does that sound close to proper for a solid quote?

Thanks for the input. 

God bless.

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## Oldmaple (Oct 29, 2015)

If that's the way it's written then I'm confused. $150 dollar difference in prices is for what difference. Pruning, I get, there is a lot of difference in how thorough you get but that should be clarified with the client first and a set price given. What's the $150 difference in the removal price for? Dropping the pine (which looks like a spruce to me), what does that mean, no cleanup? taking everything away? to groundline or the stump too? If I was the client I would have too many questions for a solid quote.


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## Pelorus (Oct 29, 2015)

How did you come up with those prices?


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## Charles B. Garret (Oct 29, 2015)

You are correct with the variance.
It's for the haul off or leave it for them to clean up.

If you have more input, then please share. I'm willing to listen as much as you have to share. I'm in learn mode and I would love to have as much input as possible.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I've been reading and watching youtube videos for hours and hours to try to make up for some of my misknowledge 

I'm in the beginning of my fledgling business. 

In the words of Dave Ramsey.

"Great Oaks start from humble beginnings as small acorns. "

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## jefflovstrom (Oct 29, 2015)

Charles B. Garret said:


> You are correct with the variance.
> It's for the haul off or leave it for them to clean up.
> 
> If you have more input, then please share. I'm willing to listen as much as you have to share. I'm in learn mode and I would love to have as much input as possible.
> ...



I don't do an estimate,,I give a price. Go with your gut and you will find out how your pricing is,,
Jeff


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## JRoland (Oct 30, 2015)

Just curious, if you're not sure how to do the job, how did you come up with the quote?
If you have to sub out the work, we are going to have to know what your paying your subs to know if you're going to make a profit.
Also, like has been stated, you need to put more details in. "Dropping the pine" can mean a lot of different things.
One time a guy I was climbing for had me look at a large grey pine (Pinus sabiniana) that the people wanted to " drop" and clean up the brush. We looked at it and decided on a price of $1200, which included me climbing and rigging out the top, then we would pull the stub over against the lean. There was just too much weight to " drop" the tree.
We submitted our proposal and didn't hear anything back.
A few months later my buddy saw the neighbor of the client at the market at was told the client had found a guy selling firewood and gave him $200 to "drop" the tree. It broke hinge and " dropped" right across the fence into the pool with the top taking out the eave if the house.
A disclaimer though, I'm the guy that has the line on my business card, "estimates are always free"


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## Charles B. Garret (Oct 30, 2015)

Clarification, I do know how to do the work. I've been watching my dad since I was knee high and doing the work that he taught me to do as got older.im now 30 years old The issue I have is learning all of the new techniques and tricks that the true professionals do.

I'm going to make my way up that ladder and I'm going to be able to do the work with the best of them.

Right now I'm just a struggling baby business owner.

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## Wayne Wilkinson (Oct 30, 2015)

I have started recording DBH and estimated height of trees when we bid work. That is not the only way we bid a job, but it gives me a good reference for the clean up. Bringing every tree down is different, the clean ups are fairly similar. We use a home made arbor trolley that we load brush onto and a cushman truckster that pulls it and hauls logs. We haul logs with the trolley too just not as often. Anyways the haul from LZ to chipper or trailer doesnt factor much to us. Just cubic yards of debris, and fire wood.


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## BC WetCoast (Oct 30, 2015)

I would give my quote in this manner and I agree, it doesn't look like a pine to me either.

Remove failing pine to grade, chip debris, leave wood. $XXX
Haul wood $YYY

Remove maple to grade, chip debris leave wood $ZZZ
Haul wood $AAA

Prune maple. Chip Debris $BBBB
Give a proper technical definition of how you are going to prune it, so you crew has something to work from.
For example - thin out 30% of the sucker growth on the ends of the codominant stems. Reduce the end weight on the arm over the fence and raise canopy 8 feet. 

You need to have some understanding of what the customer is looking for on a prune, so you can either tell them it's technically unfeasible, poor practice or a good idea. You crew needs to be able to interpret the instructions so the customer is happy at the end of the day and pays their bill.


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## JRoland (Oct 31, 2015)

Charles B. Garret said:


> Clarification, I do know how to do the work. I've been watching my dad since I was knee high and doing the work that he taught me to do as got older.im now 30 years old The issue I have is learning all of the new techniques and tricks that the true professionals do.
> 
> I'm going to make my way up that ladder and I'm going to be able to do the work with the best of them.
> 
> ...



Ok then. I'm thinking you'll be fine. I agree with bcwetcoast that you should spell out what exactly you're going to do on your proposal, so that there is no confusion at the end. As far as the pricing, neither of those trees will be a make or break endeavor for your new venture, so I say go for it and let us know how it plays out.


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## Charles B. Garret (Nov 2, 2015)

Still haven't had a response from the possible clients. I'm going to wait and then follow up and see what their thoughts are.

I'm thinking they don't want to spend the money that was quoted.
But what most of the general population don't understand is that the job is dangerous and there is a ton of work and planning involved. They studying of the tree to see which way each trouble branch has to be rigged, or cut in order to keep it from doing damage to other objects.

I just had a coworker ask me today why just getting the wood wouldn't be enough of a payment, and I went into detail with him, and I think he partially realized why cash has to be involved.

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## BC WetCoast (Nov 2, 2015)

If 400 for that dead spruce is too much, then you don' t want them for customers.


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## Charles B. Garret (Nov 2, 2015)

Like I said. I'm gonna get in contact with them again and see what their thoughts are. Never hurts to ask.

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## Tree94 (Nov 3, 2015)

I think your prices are fine,
What I'm wondering is if you even have the skill/equipment to get the work done..?
What saw are you planning to use to cut the trunk of that maple tree?


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## Tree94 (Nov 3, 2015)

Please don't say MS290 farm boss....


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## Pelorus (Nov 3, 2015)

Charles B. Garret said:


> Still haven't had a response from the possible clients.



Charles, trust me..............no response could be a blessing. For which you should be thankful.
You don't wanna land every job you quote,,,,,(extra commas for Jeff), cause that means you are pricing yourself too cheap.
Also, if you do the work, you might never get paid! It's true. Sad, but true.
Or, something could go wrong, and something or somebody gets hurt, or worse; broken. Worse if somebody gets broken,,,,,(extra commas cause of that damn Californian), unless they can be repaired.

edit: additional thought: Charles, when contemplating these matters, always think to yourself (or say aloud): "What could possibly go wrong"?


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## Jed1124 (Nov 3, 2015)

An easy way to quote a job is to say to yourself, how long is this job going to take, how much is it going to cost ME to do it, and then how much do I need to charge per hour to make a profit.
If your a good climber that spruce should be limbed up, topped out, and chunked down in 2 hours. So if you don't have clean up 400 is not bad. With cleanup you are going to kill yourself if you don't have a groundie so you are too low.
What are the specifications on the maple prune? Is it deadwood only? If so down to what size. 1" or greater, perhaps 3" or greater. Makes a huge difference.
Just looking at your pics I would say that tree needs at least 1 5/16" cable at a good amount of weight reduction. If your climbing by yourself that could be the better part of a day, depending on pruning specs.
Are you chipping brush or stacking? If your stacking then bringing out chunk wood by hand even with a helper your looking at at least two long days to remove the maple. That's a lot of big wood and brush to haul.


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## Jed1124 (Nov 3, 2015)

I could be wrong but that maple looks like it has been previously topped. Be careful with your tie in points. And please don't top it again.


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 3, 2015)

Jed1124 said:


> An easy way to quote a job is to say to yourself, how long is this job going to take, how much is it going to cost ME to do it, and then how much do I need to charge per hour to make a profit.
> If your a good climber that spruce should be limbed up, topped out, and chunken down in 2 hours. So if you don't have clean up 400 is not bad. With cleanup you are going to kill yourself if you don't have a groundie so you are too low.
> What are the specifications on the maple prune? Is it deadwood only? If so down to what size. 1" or greater, perhaps 3" or greater. Makes a huge difference.
> Just looking at your pics I would say that tree needs at least 1 5/16" cable at a good amount of weight reduction. If your climbing by yourself that could be the better part of a day, depending on pruning specs.
> Are you chipping brush or stacking? If your stacking then bringing out chunk wood by hand even with a helper your looking at at least two long days to remove the maple. That's a lot of big wood and brush to haul.



I don't think he's doing any of the work, going to hire a crew and he will play business man.


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## Jed1124 (Nov 3, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I don't think he's doing any of the work, going to hire a crew and he will play business man.


Well if he is sub contracting out the work the prices are definitely too low!


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 3, 2015)

i might be wrong. There's been a slew of "new guys want to start a tree biz" threads and I'm getting confused on who is who.


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## Jed1124 (Nov 3, 2015)

OP: What are the specs for pruning on the maple. This will give us a much better idea of whether or not your price is in the ball park.


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## Charles B. Garret (Nov 3, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I don't think he's doing any of the work, going to hire a crew and he will play business man.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm doing the work. I have no problem doing the work, and I plan on growing the business to be big in the future so I can eventually play business man. But right now I'm the guy doing the job with my dad. He's been doing the work for 20+ years and it's all been side work. I'm the one who has decided to take it on professionally. I have the business mindset and he has the knowledge. Search for my other post like everyone tells everyone else and you'll see my story.

Good day.

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## Charles B. Garret (Nov 3, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> i might be wrong. There's been a slew of "new guys want to start a tree biz" threads and I'm getting confused on who is who.


That's why I've been very hesitant about putting anything else on here because all of the super experienced people are too good to offer guidance and wisdom from their dealings with experience in the business and give grace to those who want to make it a full time career choice in the future.

But for those who are giving me and others grace and guidance, I give a BIG THANKS! !!

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## Jed1124 (Nov 3, 2015)

Charles, I'm all for giving advice as are most of the guys on here. Where guys get all bunched up is when folks ask whether or not a quote is good for a job and just by their discription of the said job there is a question as to their ability to safely do the job. Questions:
What equipment do you have.
Other than watching your pops what experience do you have?
Do you know how to properly prune a tree?
How many people do you have working for you?
Do you have liability insurance in case something should go wrong?
By the way I love me some Dave Ramsey.
Just trying to give ya the same advice ya grand ma ma would give ya!


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> i might be wrong. There's been a slew of "new guys want to start a tree biz" threads and I'm getting confused on who is who.



LOL!!
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mucho comma's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
me too! 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2015)

Charles B. Garret said:


> That's why I've been very hesitant about putting anything else on here because all of the super experienced people are too good to offer guidance and wisdom from their dealings with experience in the business and give grace to those who want to make it a full time career choice in the future.
> 
> But for those who are giving me and others grace and guidance, I give a BIG THANKS! !!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



You sound like a good guy,,,,,,,,,comma's,,,
Some of us do not take our 'man-suit's' off right away,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sometimes we sleep in them,,,,,,,,
Put yours on and hang with us,,,,,,,
If you don't have a ride,,,,,
we will send the bus,,,,,,,,,
anyway, I hope you hang in there and give us a chance,,,
otherwise, you are at a party,,,
with no one to dance,,,
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> You sound like a good guy,,,,,,,,,comma's,,,
> Some of us do not take our 'man-suit's' off right away,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> Sometimes we sleep in them,,,,,,,,
> Put yours on and hang with us,,,,,,,
> ...



I just made that up,,,lol


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## Pelorus (Nov 4, 2015)

Jeff,,,,,,,,,,the AS poet laureate 
Good luck to you, Charlie.
I don't know ye,,, but Happy Trails nonetheless.

Dave
(woodenhead,,,,,,,,,from Ontario)


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## Pelorus (Nov 4, 2015)

Be wary of getting on any bus that Jeff sends to pick you up.......
(San Diego.............bunch of fruitcakes down there)


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## Zale (Nov 5, 2015)

You won't know your quote is good until the job is finished and the check has cleared. The greatest baseball player only hit 400. You learn through time and trials of error. Good luck.


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## Charles B. Garret (Nov 12, 2015)

Update to the situation. They aren't moving on the price I gave them so I'm letting it go.

I already have two more jobs lined up and the loss of one isn't going to hurt me.

Thanks for all of the responses and info.

God Bless

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## KenJax Tree (Nov 12, 2015)

If you get every job then you aren't charging enough[emoji6] set your price and stick to it.


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## Charles B. Garret (Nov 12, 2015)

Good lesson to learn. Thanks a bunch. 

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## Pelorus (Nov 13, 2015)

Hey Charles, take today off, and drive over to Pittsburgh for TCI Expo. 9:00-4:00pm, Sat 9-noon or 1:00pm.
It is one awesome event, and you will learn a ton of stuff.


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## Zale (Nov 13, 2015)

Good advice.


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## treebilly (Nov 14, 2015)

Been to Pittsburg, done that, got a bunch of t-shirts to prove it(all free as well thanks to Treestuff ).


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