# Timber framing



## sachsmo (Nov 15, 2010)

What are the two best books on the subject.

I have a bunch of borer killed ash and need to start a plan on utilizing this wood.


----------



## cowboyvet (Nov 15, 2010)

I would start with local codes depending on how big a structure your planning on building. My brother-in-law started to try a house this way and found a huge cost / time issue. Local building codes said all privately milled lumber used in the structural part of the house had to be approved by an enginer and a sample of each tree used had to be sent into a lab to be certified for structual use. I don't think the cost of checking each tree was so high as the time it would take to get the results and records requirements. Stupid part is if the timbers come from a lumber yard (deminsional lumber), they are considered OK and no certifications are needed.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 16, 2010)

Anyone read a good book on the subject?

Amazon lists a couple, just figured there is one or two that are the 'Bible"


----------



## betterbuilt (Nov 16, 2010)

cowboyvet said:


> I would start with local codes depending on how big a structure your planning on building. My brother-in-law started to try a house this way and found a huge cost / time issue. Local building codes said all privately milled lumber used in the structural part of the house had to be approved by an enginer and a sample of each tree used had to be sent into a lab to be certified for structual use. I don't think the cost of checking each tree was so high as the time it would take to get the results and records requirements. Stupid part is if the timbers come from a lumber yard (deminsional lumber), they are considered OK and no certifications are needed.



As I understand it here, If the lumber comes from your own property it doesn't have to be graded. Code and common sense still has to be followed. Every town here has different rules about rough cut lumber. 


As for books I have a book called TIMBER FRAME CONSTRUCTION by Jack Sobon and Roger Schroeder and its an okay book. The pictures are good. Its a good place to start. I have seen other better books but the joints get pretty complicated. I find a simple joint does the job just as good as a complicated one. 







That one of my first joints.


----------



## aardquark (Nov 16, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> As for books I have a book called TIMBER FRAME CONSTRUCTION by Jack Sobon and Roger Schroeder and its an okay book.



I also have the Sobon book, and am building the shed project shown in it. While the layout process for the joinery was at first confusing, I found that after a few beams it all began to make sense and I no longer had to refer to my notes and/or drawings. Here is a photo of the result:


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 17, 2010)

Nice work,

I think there could be nothing more satisfying than building with the wood you hewned yourself.

I do hate the cookie cutter buildings they make now.

I lived in a turn of the century house before we move to the country.

That house had class, unlike the new house, cheap cheap cheap!

Guess you could not afford to build a house like the old one these days.

But a timber framed home would trump just about anything.


----------



## aardquark (Nov 17, 2010)

I thought it was really cool that the completed frame had not a single metal fastener in it. My father-in-law says I was born in the wrong century... The whole shed project started off, at least partially, to answer the question, "What would it take for a man to go into the forest and build a home?" Now I know the answer: A whole lot of back-breaking work. And that is with the help of modern tools like chainsaws and bandsaw mill. I can't imagine what it would be like with just hand tools. Maybe when I was younger. But now (this is a weekends-only project) it takes my body all week to recover from the previous weekend.


----------



## gemniii (Nov 17, 2010)

sachsmo said:


> Nice work,
> 
> I think there could be nothing more satisfying than building with the wood you hewned yourself.



If your young enough try the satisfaction of planting a tree, then milling it 30 years or so later, and building with it.

That's how I made this stack of wood which has finally dried. I'm now starting to turn into "projects".





from






Don't have any digital pics of when I planted it


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 19, 2010)

*pics of old and new*

Thought I would post a few pics of the old vs. new home.

When I moved in the old one, it had Squirrels living in the walls, but was solid as a rock.

I can't find any good pics before I restored it, but have some after the renovation.











I did flip that old house at a good time and allowed me to get my dream place out in the country.

Here it is the summer after we bought it, with the pond going in.







My dream is to build a timber framed cottage for my Bride and self to cozy up by the woodstove and enjoy our retirement.


----------



## DRB (Nov 19, 2010)

Nice shop if that what it is


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 19, 2010)

Thats the shed.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 19, 2010)

Here's a couple of the trees (10+ acre wooded), sadly that dern borer has wreaked havoc on the ash.

Looks like there was a good blow coming from them pics















I need a few books to get my plan together


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 19, 2010)

sachsmo said:


> I think there could be nothing more satisfying than building with the wood you hewned yourself.


Yeah, it will give you an appreciation for the modern tools...no doubt...and to be fair, these were cants that came off a mill. The other style besides the adz is the broad axe, it looks quite different. I like this adz work better, although it is more difficult...it looks great, IMO.






These are for 2nd floor joists in a log home. They will be on the ceiling of my master bedroom and kitchen. Logs are flat sides with dovetails. Small house footprint, 28'x32'. These 2nd floor joists are 6"x10". I've only adz'd about half of what needs to be completed...I still have the roof rafters (6"x12"s), ridge beam (8"x16"), beam joists (12"x14") and porch timber. I've hewn some of the porch timber also, but not all of it.


----------



## gemniii (Nov 20, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> Yeah, it will give you an appreciation for the modern tools...no doubt...and to be fair, these were cants that came off a mill. The other style besides the adz is the broad axe, it looks quite different. I like this adz work better, although it is more difficult...it looks great, IMO.
> 
> These are for 2nd floor joists in a log home. They will be on the ceiling of my master bedroom and kitchen. Logs are flat sides with dovetails. Small house footprint, 28'x32'. These 2nd floor joists are 6"x10". I've only adz'd about half of what needs to be completed...I still have the roof rafters (6"x12"s), ridge beam (8"x16"), beam joists (12"x14") and porch timber. I've hewn some of the porch timber also, but not all of it.



So let me get this straight - You got beams from the mill and your just chopping them up with an adz so they'll look hand hewn?

Why that's just distressing!


----------



## Winn R (Nov 20, 2010)

gemniii said:


> So let me get this straight - You got beams from the mill and your just chopping them up with an adz so they'll look hand hewn?
> 
> Why that's just distressing!




:wave::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 20, 2010)

WOW,

Rough sawn will be enough work for me.

That adz work sure is cool, but at my age just getting the framing and electical/pluming in will be a major accomplishment.

I plan on a somewhat maintenance free exterior, like concrete siding, steel roof, and will probably cover the exposed concrete walls with nice hand picked river rock.

It will have a small footprint, figured 1500-1600 square feet, but a huge porch.

It will also have a double deep basement with the upper basement level being somewhat daylight.

The plan is to put it in the SW corner of my woods, will be clearing all winter and when it gets hot and dry next Summer will dig a small pond and compact the spoil for good elevation for the homesite.

this will be my first (and no doubt last) attempt at building.


----------



## Hlakegollum (Nov 20, 2010)

sachsmo said:


> What are the two best books on the subject.
> 
> I have a bunch of borer killed ash and need to start a plan on utilizing this wood.



Ted Benson has detailed books on this. Good luck!


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 21, 2010)

Hlakegollum said:


> Ted Benson has detailed books on this. Good luck!



So Ted IS the guru?

By the way,

do you sell ice fishin' gear?

I bought some cool stuff from a guy many years back.

Me thinks he lived there.

mo


----------



## betterbuilt (Nov 21, 2010)

I've read this book also. It was a good book. I was looking a Ted Bensons other books and they may be a little to complex for a beginner.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks,

Looks like there will be something to put on my list from Santa.

mo


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 23, 2010)

gemniii said:


> So let me get this straight - You got beams from the mill and your just chopping them up with an adz so they'll look hand hewn?


Absolutely, do you know how much time is saved in doing so? The alternative is to hewn 1/3rd off each side (that would be brutal with the adz), preferably with the Broad ax.

Adzin' ain't easy work...no sireeeeeeee....but it looks great, IMO.

My logs have had the sides milled off, and planed after. I'm not adzing the logs themselves. Only the timber, so in that sense I am only adzing milled timber off the sawmill as you ask above.

But NO, I didn't get beams from the mill, I got logs, cut the sides off on a saw mill (similar to the one I own), and the roof timber was also cut on that saw mill, which I am adzing. I have to cut the rafters on my sawmill still, they are still in log form as seen in this pic:


----------



## gemniii (Nov 23, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> Absolutely, do you know how much time is saved in doing so?


No - and I don't want to find out. I use to fell trees up to about a foot DBH with an ax. Then I moved up to a 2 man crosscut saw. Then I bought a Stihl 021 and never looked back.



TraditionalTool said:


> The alternative is to hewn 1/3rd off each side (that would be brutal with the adz), preferably with the Broad ax.
> 
> Adzin' ain't easy work...no sireeeeeeee....but it looks great, IMO.
> 
> ...




I apologize for the post, I just had to use the pun "distressing" as in "Give (furniture, leather, or clothing) simulated marks of age and wear".

Looks decent but I can imagine someone looking at the beams 30 years from now and thinking "Wonder why he didn't use milled beams".

Have you thought of using a CSM and doing a bad job. Start and stop the mill a lot, "sawing" the mill back and forth, so it looks like real rough cut lumber. 

My grandfather used to make large household furniture, and cabinetry. He took great pains to get a beautiful finish on all his work and thought it "just wrong" when people would distress it so it looked old.


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 23, 2010)

gemniii said:


> No - and I don't want to find out. I use to fell trees up to about a foot DBH with an ax. Then I moved up to a 2 man crosscut saw. Then I bought a Stihl 021 and never looked back.


I will say that it is back breaking work...and you would gain so much respect for our forefathers, it will damn near make your cry! 


gemniii said:


> Looks decent but I can imagine someone looking at the beams 30 years from now and thinking "Wonder why he didn't use milled beams".


That someone just might be my kids, they will end up with this log home, and they will know that their Dad built this house with his own hands. They will know that every dovetail was laid out and handcrafted, just as the kitchen cabinets will have hand cut dovetails on the drawers.


gemniii said:


> Have you thought of using a CSM and doing a bad job. Start and stop the mill a lot, "sawing" the mill back and forth, so it looks like real rough cut lumber.


Some things in life are just not done the easy way, and this is one of them. The look will just not be the same. I have pondered making a machine that would spin adz heads around with a motor to automate it, but at the end of the day it seems too much work for this one house.


gemniii said:


> My grandfather used to make large household furniture, and cabinetry. He took great pains to get a beautiful finish on all his work and thought it "just wrong" when people would distress it so it looked old.


Well, how many log homes did he build?


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 23, 2010)

Books, books, books,

I need to get my list done soon.


Thanks, 


mo


----------



## betterbuilt (Nov 23, 2010)

Timber Framing for the Rest of Us: A Guide to Contemporary Post and Beam Construction 
Looks kinda like it might have some useful info. 
http://www.amazon.com/Timber-Framing-Rest-Contemporary-Construction/dp/0865715084

I did read this one and i remember it being a pretty good book.

The Craft of Modular Post & Beam: Building log and timber homes affordably

http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Modular-Post-Beam-affordably/dp/0881791318


----------



## losttheplot (Nov 23, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> Yeah, it will give you an appreciation for the modern tools...no doubt...and to be fair, these were cants that came off a mill. The other style besides the adz is the broad axe, it looks quite different. I like this adz work better, although it is more difficult...it looks great, IMO.




You could get a blunt chisel and carve a Faux date into the lintel over the front door.
Something like 1888


----------



## rangergord (Nov 24, 2010)

I have Rob Roy's book Timber Framing for the rest of Us. It is good for showing how to use metal fasteners instead of complex wood joints and dowels. It comes up short on overall timberframe design. Next on my list is timberframers workshop by steve chappell. Not very many practical books on the subject. There are old books from the 70's and 80's (outdated). New coffeetable books that are for dreamers and the mortgage your future and pay someone else to build it crowd. Just a few to guide the do it your self person without an apprenticeship in traditional timberframe joinery.

http://www.amazon.com/Timber-Framer...ageNumber=2&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 26, 2010)

I haven't replied to this thread, as I haven't read any good books, nor do I have any books on timber framing.

Worth noting are B.Allan Mackie's books on building with logs, and you can pick these up really cheap on the used book market.

The best one IMO is "Building with Logs", and he also discusses some basics on moving/lifting logs and such like that.

Mackie also has a book on notches that is good, but is out of print and is fetches premium prices. It is called "Notches of All Kinds: A Book of Timber Joinery" and shows joinery for various styles of building with logs and timber. Some fascinating notches. Some are for timber as I recall, but most are focused around building with logs.

Another great Mackie book is titled, "The Owner-Built Log House". It discusses various related issues in building a house, but focuses on doing it debt free.

Another book that is good, IMO, is the McRaven book, "Building and Restoring the Hewn Log House", which kinda focuses on building the dovetail home, but it doesn't show how to cut the dovetail, unfortunately. He used to give workshops but died a few years back. Nice guy, I've spoken to him in the past. Mackie's book "Building with Logs" shows the same style as well as how to cut it, but more specific like was popular in the Georgian Bay area of Ontario. It uses flat logs on both faces, live edge between the logs, corners dovetailed. Same as Appalacian, but the logs are bigger. I believe French influenced in the Ontario area.

All of that said, much of the notches used are common, and mortise and tenon are commonly used. In furniture the m&t is used slightly different, I've noticed in timber they will often mortise the entire log in, such as having a top plate and the floor joists mortised in. On furniture you would create a shoulder around the tenon, so that it hides the joint, but in timber framing most people mortise the entire end, and there is no shoulder.

Timber framing is easier than building with logs in the sense that the timber is not as big and is easier to move. While not required, a larger mill such as a band mill would be nicer than a CSM.

The Benson book is certainly worth pursuing, but get the one on building the timber frame home, not the coffee table book with pics of timber framed homes.

It is a shame that more people do not build with timber, in regard to how many use it for firewood. I see some beautiful trees being turned into ashes...guys cutting up perfectly good logs that they could build with...

Even so, timber framing is not easy in many cases either, unless you keep the sizes really small. For instance I have a 28' cant that is 12"x14", and I bet it weighs 4000 lbs. Lifting and moving timber is a topic in itself.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 26, 2010)

Thanks Alan,

Lots of good info there.
I have enough EAB killed ash to do a couple Timber Framed buildings.

The "Silver lining" is; the bark just falls off to reveal a very intricate roving pattern of the larvae.
















Other than the tops, small DBH, and curvy ones, mine will be put to good use.


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 27, 2010)

sachsmo said:


> Lots of good info there.
> I have enough EAB killed ash to do a couple Timber Framed buildings.


There was just an article a month or two ago in Sawmill & Woodlot magazine on the East Asian Beetle. I don't know too much about it, but does the larva stay inside the tree like the other beetles that live in lodgepole? I don't know what type those are, but do know those live inside and have been known to bore out in the first couple years after people build with them.


sachsmo said:


> Other than the tops, small DBH, and curvy ones, mine will be put to good use.


That's good to hear! I'm so glad I pursued learning how to build with logs/timber. I wish I would have discovered it some years ago, but I'm happy learning now in life and hope that I can build at least the log house I'm working on and a garage/carriage_house.


----------



## betterbuilt (Nov 27, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> There was just an article a month or two ago in Sawmill & Woodlot magazine on the East Asian Beetle. I don't know too much about it, but does the larva stay inside the tree like the other beetles that live in lodgepole?



I read an article that said they were only in the outer two inches or so. The article said if they ran it through a special bark removal machine, That took off the bark and the cambium. It said they could remove almost 100% of the beetles on the butt logs(I think BobL is putting one on his mill). The only draw back was the next log up they could get most of them but there was still a small amount around branches and crevases.


----------



## Hlakegollum (Nov 27, 2010)

sachsmo said:


> So Ted IS the guru?
> 
> By the way,
> 
> ...



Sorry I don't know him and haven't done any ice fishing. I do see guys out all winter, the lake freezes over about Jan. 15th.


----------



## BobL (Nov 27, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> I read an article that said they were only in the outer two inches or so. The article said if they ran it through a special bark removal machine, That took off the bark and the cambium. It said they could remove almost 100% of the beetles on the butt logs(I think BobL is putting one on his mill). The only draw back was the next log up they could get most of them but there was still a small amount around branches and crevases.



Those bark removal machines are way out of my league and look something like this at the mill Brad works at.


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 28, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> I read an article that said they were only in the outer two inches or so. The article said if they ran it through a special bark removal machine, That took off the bark and the cambium. It said they could remove almost 100% of the beetles on the butt logs(I think BobL is putting one on his mill). The only draw back was the next log up they could get most of them but there was still a small amount around branches and crevases.


I don't know if that is true or not, the article I read in Sawmill & Woodlot magazine says the Asian Longhorn Beetle destroys the structure of the wood. In the article it says:

"Over time, the tunneling of the larvae through the trunk and branches weakens the structure of the tree. The tree then becomes a hazard, as branches can fall off and the entire tree can come down unexpectedly. The wood is ruined for wood products and sap production is reduced. The damage also opens the tree up to attack from disease organisms."

The article goes on to talk about the Worcester Incident which happened around 2008 and the ALB was spotted in an area around Worcester MA.

I would check into the ALB more before you use the wood for a timber frame structure, and make sure the wood is structurally sound. Chances are that it is isolated to the outer 2" like you say, but this article doesn't imply such.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 28, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> I read an article that said they were only in the outer two inches or so. The article said if they ran it through a special bark removal machine, That took off the bark and the cambium. It said they could remove almost 100% of the beetles on the butt logs(I think BobL is putting one on his mill). The only draw back was the next log up they could get most of them but there was still a small amount around branches and crevases.




Think we're talkin' two different bugs here.

My ash are afflicted with "Emereld Ash Borer", The larvae just eat the cambium layer and do nothing to the "structure" of the wood.

Bet those larvae "roving" marks will look very interesting on the Timbers eh?


----------



## TraditionalTool (Nov 28, 2010)

sachsmo said:


> Think we're talkin' two different bugs here.
> 
> My ash are afflicted with "Emereld Ash Borer", The larvae just eat the cambium layer and do nothing to the "structure" of the wood.
> 
> Bet those larvae "roving" marks will look very interesting on the Timbers eh?


Yes, different than I thought you were talking about, I thought you were talking about the Asian Longhorn Beetle. These are two different borers entirely.


----------

