# Roper 3.7 tear down and rebuild



## Opihi59 (Sep 10, 2011)

I am going to guess most have seen my other Roper thread. Since I am now an official Roper hoarder, I figure I'd fill you in on the next step in my descent into addiction. I decided to tear down the original 917.353750 saw, this is the one Roanoker sent me a flywheel for, since my existing flywheel is kinda low on fins and out of balance. Before I tore down this saw, I checked compression and it was 105. It seemed to run fine and pull well, but I guess it could do better for the next half century of its life with me. My plan is to replace the slug, and rings, crank seals, maybe bearings, find a new crank carrier, see if it will scream again and then go from there. I found a few more interesting issues of course in the tear down tonite following a wonderful week at work. (Not) Anyway, it is Friday and that means just 3 more working days til Monday. Well, Friday's over so just 2 more now.
The compression release valve was stuck, seemed it didn't completely close, but wasn't really open, it was stuck. I got it free but since I no longer trust it, I figure it should be replaced, so I'll be begging in the Swap thread for someone to bail me out.







There are 2 rings on this piston, but for some reason, the ring gaps are aligned instead of staggered as I would have expected based on automotive experience. 
















Dome of Piston, marked EXH for exhaust port location/orientation.






The piston actually looked very good for 40+ yrs of age, but maybe not a full 40 of use perhaps. "Front."






"Back"






The shiney stripes aren't wear, this is where the intake is so there is no contact, the stripe up the middle between the two shines is explained by the cylinder photos in the next post.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 10, 2011)

So here's some bore shots of the cylinder, I think it looks great.





















Reeds looked fine






I found a bit of worrisome carnage on the edge of the tank, it was from a screw rattling loose from the drivecase carrier that then wedged under the flywheel, but it didn't seem to go all the way thru. I belive a dab of some RTV here will help, seems more flexible than JB weld.






So tomorrow I will re-join the 2 case halfs of the tank, will put RTV bead between them to seal the joint so the tank won't leak, and tear down the bottom end so I can check the bearings, they "feel" okay though.

So far, here are the original parts numbers I am aware of from Sears.

Rings--643A18
Piston--643A12 (but I don't think I need a piston)
Crank seals-8998H
Compression release valve--1579R

I'm not aware of a way to cross-reference these with any currently available parts, so I'd be glad to hear from anyone who can recommend a source. I have one lead but have not got a response from that ebay dealer as of yet. 

So at this point I have a few questions for the forum--first off, is RTV the proper material to use as a sealer between the 2 case halves to seal the tank?
second--anyone have any sources for the above listed parts numbers, or perhaps have a compression release valve that is good rattling around? Also need to come up with the drivecase carrier for this, since I'm deciding to go all out on the rebuild, I suppose this part should be replaced as well, here is photo of that part. I believe I'm going to be getting some more PMs from Roanoker and perhaps another package coming my way after another Paypal transaction.......sorry to be such a black hole of need.











There may be others as I get further into this, but I promise I will be submitting tons of photos (chainsaw P**n--rhymes with "corn") as I go thru this.


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## grantwolland (Sep 10, 2011)

*have a needle in a haystack?!!!*

well buddy here's the good news and the bad news...the roper built saws are good and torquey when running good. i had a 24" windsor with full comp on mine and it never bogged down! however the bad news is you might as well wipe your butt with those part numbers as finding new old stock parts is not even hard...ITS IMPOSSIBLE! i have never seen any on ebay or otherwise in the six years ive been working with these saws. lots of parts saws cheap on ebay except shipping costs add up. as far as your piston dilemma, i found homelite Super XL pistons work nicely in these saws which are internally copies of the homelite anyway. SXL rings should also work. just remeber the ring gaps always face the intake side of the cylinder. i found a crank seal that matched up with a part from work and so far they have worked. you can get it fixed sure enough but your're going to have to do your legwork to match parts up with non roper parts. i'll look for a spare decomp valve. i have some lower compression saws that i didn't have to use the decomp valve to fire it up with so a plug in its place is acceptable. they have a decent recoil so they don't exactly break your arm. may the force be with you!


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## Mastermind (Sep 10, 2011)

RTV for a case sealant? I never use it myself. Any silicone based sealer and gasoline is a no no to me. I use Threebond. Same stuff under different names.........Yamabond......Hondabond.......Dirko. 

I have also used a Permatex sealer that is resistant to gasoline. If in doubt read the back of the tube to see if it's resistant.

The old saw seems to be in good condition. Good luck with it.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 10, 2011)

I'll start looking around for the gasoline resistant case sealer you listed, starting with car parts places etc. I haven't heard of those particular products so don't have any experience with them but that's why I find this forum so helpful.

I never figured I'd find anything of the original parts numbers, but I figure it's handy to have the orig PNs as someone out there has a cross reference, or a dimensional equivalent etc. I'm digging around and of course will list current PNs and current suppliers when I come up with the parts.


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## brokenbudget (Sep 10, 2011)

go on down to your local mudercycle dealer and ask for a tube of yama honda kawi ultrabond 1194. i pay just under 15 bucks for a tube, but it is well worth it:msp_thumbup:


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 10, 2011)

Seals and bearings are available at your local industrial parts dealer and auto parts stores. 

On seals you need to know the shaft diameter, housing diameter, width, and style (single lip with garter spring is the most common for saw crankshafts). 

Ball bearings are made to metric dimensions. Bore, outside diameter, and width with seal(s)/shield(s), and/or snap ring groove is necessary to cross over replacemnts.

Needle or roller bearings are same drill as ball bearings exept they are made to inch dimenions on made in the USA saws.

Look on the side of the bearing or seal for manufacturer name and number.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 10, 2011)

*And now a problem............*



67L36Driver said:


> Seals and bearings are available at your local industrial parts dealer and auto parts stores.
> 
> On seals you need to know the shaft diameter, housing diameter, width, and style (single lip with garter spring is the most common for saw crankshafts).
> 
> ...



I wasn't expecting loose needle bearings when I took the end cap off the connecting rod, but of course they all dropped into the case. I recognized the potential disaster of losing one or more of these so FELT I was being extremely careful in tipping them out onto a clean plywood work table. I counted 30 so felt good with the even number somehow, but a bit later while walking out of the garage to clean the case I saw one on the concrete floor. Great, so now 31. I didn't feel real happy at that point so reassembled the connecting rod on the crank journal with the needle bearings in place with some sticky grease. There was no play on this when I tested it prior to pulling the conn rod, but it has about 15-18 thousandths now. Everything was marked for orientation prior to disassembly, so the bearing cap is on the right way, etc. I can't explain the play in this. There could be a missing needle bearing, but that would not really account for the play. I've put U joint caps back on the trunnion that felt fine, then I notice the loose needle bearing that went walkabout. I spent 1 1/2 hours looking on hands and knees, with light held tangentially, with a magnet, I even eviscerated my tool box and went thru that in case the needle had stuck to a tool and hitchhiked into there. No joy.

So possibly 2 problems--Do you happen to know the count of the needle bearings for this saw? Any thoughts on why I would have this very noticeable large amount of play? I have been over this and it doesn't make sense.


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## roostersgt (Sep 10, 2011)

Nice pictures. Thanks for sharing. I too have never seen piston ring stops lined up together. Kind of defeats the rings purpose, doesn't it?


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## Mastermind (Sep 10, 2011)

When you get the rod in your hand (out of the saw). Put the cap on it and all the needles. Then you can tell if any are missing.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 10, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> When you get the rod in your hand (out of the saw). Put the cap on it and all the needles. Then you can tell if any are missing.



Yeah, there is a little space, it does seem another needle might just squeak in there, but I don't know how much the cap deforms on tightening it down. Some major Roper affectionado must know the count. (and hopefully have a remedy to bail me outta trouble)


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## Mastermind (Sep 11, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> Yeah, there is a little space, it does seem another needle might just squeak in there, but I don't know how much the cap deforms on tightening it down. Some major Roper affectionado must know the count. (and hopefully have a remedy to bail me outta trouble)


 
Maybe, just maybe XL12 needles are the same size. They're common as hell here.


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## rmh3481 (Sep 11, 2011)

You can fab a leakproof case gasket using a brown paper grocery bag. Just take your time and press the paper over the sides of the case to form the cutting outlines. A new razor blade and a pair of sharp scissors will make it quick and easy. If you have a paper punch for the bolt holes that will help too. 

Ive seen too many scored cylinders on gasketless cases. Sometimes the sealer holds and sometimes it doesnt. Expansion rates are different for a magnesium case and an aluminum cylinder joint. I use a fine coating of loctite 515 or 518 over the brown paper gaskets that I make and have not had any issues with them.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 11, 2011)

I usually purchase gasket sheets from NAPA/redline and cut out what I need. It works well, and I am rather tedious and meticulous in making these. I have access to any type of scalpel blade I need. No worries thus far.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 11, 2011)

roostersgt said:


> Nice pictures. Thanks for sharing. I too have never seen piston ring stops lined up together. Kind of defeats the rings purpose, doesn't it?



If you buy rings from 'the Greek' on ebay, plan on notching the ends to fit around the locator pin. Use a 1/16" dia. swiss pattern file. You will gain a significant amout of compression going from .075"-.089" to .003"-.005" end gap.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm starting to come up with parts sources, Roanoker sent me a flywheel. I have been back and forth on PM with 67L36Driver and with the Greek on ebay seeking out ring options. I have done some research on crank seals by dimensions--Bore dia 0.875" and shaft size 0.625" and come up with 2 SKF seal number 712130 and 721503 and will see if I can now locate a source for a small handful of them. They are not as thick as I appear to need being 0.125" but they may be worth a try. I'll keep updating this thread with successes as well as failures as I know there is a Roper following out there. 
I don't have a particular attraction to these Roper saws, it's just that this one belonged to my Father and I used it as a young adolescent and we're both approaching "vintage" or somewhere beyond. It does give me satisfaction to work this over and I really want to hear it fire up and annoy the neighbors. Then I'll find something to cut up with it.


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## roostersgt (Sep 14, 2011)

Keep us updated. I really enjoy seeing a saw project come together, especially a challenging older one.


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## thook (Sep 17, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> There are 2 rings on this piston, but for some reason, the ring gaps are aligned instead of staggered as I would have expected based on automotive experience.



I've wondered about this, too. My experience also comes from automotive. 

My Makita 520i is a 50cc saw with only one ring....not two as I've seen on some Dolmar 111 pistons (the equivalent in design/model). My thinking says maybe the difference is with the two rings not being staggered is that none are oil retention rings. There is no oil in the case to keep out of the combustion chamber as with an automobile. 

As well, atleast with Toyota pistons, there isn't a notch in the ring seat/groove so the rings can be staggered....or, consequently,_ have _to be staggered.....whichever way it is. 

And, lastly, maybe the notch on the saw piston negates the rings needing to be staggered being adequate in design for creating compression. On my Makita, the ring ends close up pretty tightly against the notch once installed in cylinder.

Just my thoughts. I'm no 2cycle expert.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 18, 2011)

The rings on the Roper (and many, many others) are pinned in one position. That is so the ring end won't end up snagging in the exhaust port or transfer port.

For the above reason end gap is typically .075"-.080" to clear a 1/16" dia. locator pin.

Conventional rings with a gap of .003"-008" can be notched with a 1/16" dia. swiss pattern file. (tiny little sucker) to clear the locator pin on the Roper (and Pioneer, Homie SXL etc.) piston.

Less ring end gap = more compression and less waste fuel


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## thook (Sep 18, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> The rings on the Roper (and many, many others) are pinned in one position. That is so the ring end won't end up snagging in the exhaust port or transfer port.


 

Well, thanks for answering that. I'd just read about it another thread, too. So, much for my thinking....


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## Opihi59 (Sep 18, 2011)

So I've been ruminating about the ring choice for my rebuild. 67L36Driver has been very helpful with PMs and suggestions on this. When I set my original rings in the cylinder bore to measure end gap, it is 0.090" Huge gap. The closest ring to my original ring with slots cut for my locator pins is 46mm X 1.5mm My theory is since there is a 47mm X 1.5 mm ring, then I get a pair of those and file the ends down and cut pin notches so I can get around 0.005 end gap or less to improve compression. If I were to go with the 46mm I'd still have a huge ring gap. You can't cut a board longer so to speak, so start with a .0394" larger diameter (47mm) and file the ends of that until I get the end gap I want by testing it in the cylinder bore, then cut my pin notches. Certainly would like to invite thoughts on that before I order a pair. Remember that this saw has 2 rings.

On another note, the non-runner Roper I bought from Craigslist to be a parts saw, that I then decided to repair got used yesterday to drop 5 more Ironwoods, and then cut up all of the previously downed 11 trees we had laying about into manageable sections. Ended up bringing down 2 I hadn't planned on since they had dead tops in them and were hazardous. The Roper screamed thru them but of course now I have 3 dull loops of chain that need help. It has only 110psi compression though and once the orig saw is restored with new rings and seals (Grrrrrrrrrr, seals........hard time finding what I want) I'll tear apart this other saw and do the same to it. We also used a Poulan 2050 14" to bump knots, and cut some sections and it did very well. I got my 2 oldest Scouts into cutting downed sections with the saws and they did very well. Note that these 2 oldest Scouts happen to be carrying my DNA, and I wouldn't allow someone else's kid to use a chainsaw unless the parent was the direct supervisor. We likely have another day of work to finish off this particular Eagle Scout project, but in my life of Scouting and 13 years as a Troop leader this was likely the best project we've done.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 18, 2011)

*So now some photos*

Tank case halves cleaned up






















Sealed back together with this stuff, and you're right, it isn't cheap out here in the Sandwich Isles either.






I have some other photos still on the cam, but have a parts motor coming pretty soon that I need. So depending on when parts arrive and when I get a chance to work on this I'll keep posting in the progress. I put a dab of the Yamabond stuff on that damaged area on the flywheel side of the casehalf since I just missed a deal on a parts case on ebay. I figure it should work for however long until perhaps another comes available, but I'm not too awful worried about it. It did have a minor gas leak here it turned out.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 18, 2011)

Good looking job bud.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 18, 2011)

Can not believe I have managed to miss this thread for this long. If you still need that carrier I can pull one off of a parts saw for ya.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks Roanoker. I have a carrier coming with a parts engine; I checked the USPS tracking and it made it to Honolulu yesterday so it should be in my grubby little hands by tomorrow. Then of course, find time to work on it, etc. 

I am seeking needle bearings for the connecting rod, I put up a Help Me in the Swap meet thread.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 18, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> Thanks Roanoker. I have a carrier coming with a parts engine; I checked the USPS tracking and it made it to Honolulu yesterday so it should be in my grubby little hands by tomorrow. Then of course, find time to work on it, etc.
> 
> I am seeking needle bearings for the connecting rod, I put up a Help Me in the Swap meet thread.


 
I did some research and found a little info you may enjoy. The part number for yours bearings is 9084H and where I did not find any bearings I have confirmed that there should be 31 of them. Since you say you found 31 you may be in luck to reuse what you have or measure one of your rollers with a micrometer and match it up.

On a related note. I did the same thing when I took my first AH440 Tecumseh engine apart, meaning I dumped the rollers down inside the engine. The Tecumseh was even worse because there are two rows of short bearings, 60+ little rollers.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 18, 2011)

Interesting that there are indeed 31. I have so much end play in that when I put it back together, but it felt fine beforehand. Hard to understand. Makes me think I didn't assemble it correctly, but I know that not to be the case, especially since I marked everything ahead of time--likely you saw the yellow dots I dabbed on parts in some of the photos. I have managed to find part numbers for a lot of Sears Chainsaw parts from their Searsparts website, but of course they list them as no longer available.
I packed the needles back with sticky grease, that holds them in place for reassembly, but 60 is a real pain. I remember the old transmissions I used to work on as a kid that had tons of needle bearings in them, I specifically remember an M22 (Muncie) 4spd crashbox that literally had a thousand.

So the number's 31 after all...........

Thanks for the followup, believe me, I am having fun working on these saws.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 18, 2011)

For the rings I would check with Otto gas engine works, he has a lot of rings in stock and he claims to be able to custom make rings up to 86". 
http://www.pistonrings.net/


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## Opihi59 (Sep 18, 2011)

Currently working with "The Greek" on ebay, I suppose if what I get in the mail doesn't work out, I'll explore other options. Those crank seals are annoyingly difficult to locate, but I have a lot of feelers out and hope to hear some email responses later in the week ahead.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 22, 2011)

*Crank Seals*

So things have come up rather dry and dusty on my various email inquiries, however snooping around on the internet I have found another option with an SKF seal 6119. Thru NAPA they are $7.99 each but the closest place they have them is Phoenix, so I'll likely get 4 of them flown in to me. I'll likely get about 10% discount on them with military ID card. I won't know for sure that they will work until I get them in my grubby little fingers and give them a shot, but no guts, no glory. They are designed to fit on a shaft of 0.625" (5/8") and go into a bore of 0.875" (7/8") which matches my measurements. The actual OD of the seal is 0.881" which provides a 6 thousandths interference fit. My originals were approx 0.2" thickness, these are listed as 0.1880", so I don't think this will be an issue. Previous ones I had located were 0.125" (1/8") but I didn't find a source. I have yet to order my rings yet, but I suppose I can put my seals in the new bottom end and fiddle with the top end later when I swap over my original top end to the "new" motor.
I put the end of the crank into the chuck on my drill and cranked it over a few times and the compression on the "new" motor was really lousy, so I'll stick with my original piston and cylinder and fab up the rings for that when I get to it. Of course the good news is that I have finished my latest tree felling project, and have no projected need for this saw for a while. In the meantime the Dragon Lady has approved my buying another needy saw, an aging Craftsman 2.3, and here's how I did it--We shared a ride to work and walking out thru the parking lot together at the end of the day I was looking at a few Harleys and Crotchrockets and mused out loud that it would be nice to have a motorcycle again after a 30 year hiatus. She said "why don't you buy another Chainsaw?" Not sure how many times I can get by with that one, but I'll go with it for the moment. I suppose next time I want another needy saw I can say something like "we outta make another baby..." Course then she could counter with something like "why don't you go back to Afganistan or Iraq for the 5th time, or someplace ladat, or then tell me to go ahead and get a motorcycle."
I will likely have a few photos to post up this weekend so long as it doesn't get too crazy around here.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 22, 2011)

One option to overcome your seal issue is to find sealed bearings, I have seen this done several times. Pull the inner seal out of the bearing so they can get lube and the outer seal will work as your crank seal. Now that only works if your bearings have a inner and outer race.


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## apse (Sep 22, 2011)

Hey,

Just now catching this thread...Gotta probably 2 or 3 of these in the shelf for parts. Let us know if there is something you still need, send us an email, it is easier to find than a pm.

Good Luck!
Brian and Tina


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## Opihi59 (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks all, for checking in. Brad and Tina, I'll keep you in mind if I need to beg for parts of course.

So today, I decided I wouldn't start off on the adult beverages right off when I got out of bed and fiddled with the saw instead. I took the old/original motor apart that I had difficulties in the connecting rod bearings being sloppy, same ones I was whining about a page or 2 back in this thread. Once I mic-ed everything out and did a few dry trial assemblies, I found that the end cap had been marked (by me, duh) 180* out. I put the needles all back in ALL *31* OF THEM. Yes, thanks Roanoker, 31 is the correct count. I now no longer have any end play in the crank bearings with the journal properly put on. I torqued it down, but I am still putting in the "new" motor, which I went ahead and did this morning. I went down to NAPA and ordered the new crank seals, I am going with an* SKF oil seal #6119 *which matches by dimensions what I am looking for very closely. Those will come in by air so I can play with them by next weekend if work is gentle with me and not as brutal as it has been as of late. I'll let you all know how they fit and how they seal.

Someone needs to help me a bit with the proper technique for checking compression. Originally I thought my "new" ebay motor was bad on compression. I cranked it over a few feeble times with my 3/8" drill chucked onto the flywheel side and only got 30 PSI. I got out my 1/2" drive big drill and chucked it onto the clutch side up above the clutch threads and spun it (drill in reverse, or course) over vigorously and it hit almost 150 PSI. Should the compression tester jump to 150 or so on just a few turns, or do you need to spin it for a few seconds so to speak? When I've done it on cars, I hit the starter for 5-10 seconds at a time, then get out and check the gauge. At any rate, I still plan on re-ringing both motors and will compare between a 46mm ring and a 47mm ring with a bit of careful filing, etc and see which gives me the best end gap in the 0.003-0.005" range. You know I'll tell you how it comes out of course. Be patient........

Since I solved the issue of the end play with the rod journal end cap orientation, I didn't do too much else with the saw today so decided to knock off and thin out my beer supply.

Pictures of course. On the flywheel side case half of the gas tank, I had a ding that I globbed over with some Yamabond, then shaved it down a bit once it had cured. Replaced the fuel line of course. It's amazing that the original 40+ yr old tubing was actually okay, but I figured it was best to replace with the new stuff.











This is what I was fixing--outside of tank/case half.






INSIDE of tank/case half.






Clutch side of case.






"New" motor from ebay. I bought it from jgsaws, it was a decent deal and he marked it down for me when I asked it he'd take a lower price. Shipped it very fast, well packed and it was accurately represented. I'm putting in a plug for this ebay vendor if anyone else on the forum is looking at stuff in his store.











The motor is now in place, and I added in the oil lines etc but not in this photo. I stopped at this point for another project that needed my attention.






Out of space on this entry due to photo number, will move on to next post.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 24, 2011)

So here is the compression test on the "new" motor, as described in the post above.

Compression test on the new motor.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 25, 2011)

The rule for doing a compression test on a saw is to keep pulling the rope until the needle stops moving, generally 5-6 solid pulls. Can't really say what the proper technique is when using a drill but I would think the 1/2" drill would be better suited to this purpose. Glad to hear you got the rob bearing issue figured out, sometimes it turns out to be the simplest things.

No need for the jgsaws plug with me, I have bought from them many times and have always gotten good service.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 25, 2011)

Roanoker494 said:


> The rule for doing a compression test on a saw is to keep pulling the rope *until the needle stops moving*, generally 5-6 solid pulls. Can't really say what the proper technique is when using a drill but I would think the 1/2" drill would be better suited to this purpose. Glad to hear you got the rob bearing issue figured out, sometimes it turns out to be the simplest things.
> 
> No need for the jgsaws plug with me, I have bought from them many times and have always gotten *good service*.



I can post a second on both votes.:msp_thumbup:


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## Opihi59 (Sep 25, 2011)

Always nice to hear that others validate my impression of that particular ebay seller. I'll likely lurk around his store from time to time to see what stuff he has available.

I spent some more time on the saw today, actually more time than I really feel like mentioning for what I managed to get done. I musta installed the back half/carb, etc and taken it apart about 5 or 6 times. I know now that I can do it in the dark by feel alone. The problem I stopped with is the compression release. I had a problem with the orig compression release valve being stuck, and replaced it with the "new" one that come on the ebay motor. For whatever reason, the comp release lever does not quite make contact with the top of the valve to actually actuate it. I looked at the lever, and it does not appear to have anything missing from it, or look to be worn or broken but of course I have nothing to compare it to. There were no mystery bits of broken plastic that came out when I took it apart originally, and certainly doesn't appear to have any fracture line across the end, but it just doesn't reach the top of the comp release valve. I compared the reassembly to the original photos I took and everything is back together properly. I suppose I may be begging for photos of the comp release trigger (plastic) for a 917.353750 Roper 3.7 Craftsman if anyone has some photos. I'm sure there must be about a dozen of them just floating around in someone's parts drawer. If it appears mine is shot, I'll likely be PMing or Swap meet advertising for a replacement. I may be able to modify my comp release trigger by fabricating a shoe of sorts on the end of it, but will put it aside for now and let some more cat hair stick to it, compliments of Katie the shedding monster.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 25, 2011)

It could be that your Ebay engine came from a newer model 3.7 like this one






If I am not mistaken the compression release valves are a different length, do you still have the old one to compare it to? Either way I will pull the side off one of my saws and take some pictures.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, the new motor was billed as coming from a 917.353750, the same model number as mine. I compared the comp release valves side by side and they are identical but for the fact that the new one looked hardly even used. In side by side comparisons of a really critical nature, the new motor was exactly the same as my original, though there were 2 variations I noticed. The ebay motor was of the points/condenser type, and an attached copper line was different configuration than the original but I swapped that line, and removed the points/condenser. The crank, etc was identical to my one.
Now I have to admit, I found it a bit odd that a solid state version and the points/condenser version would have the same model numbers, but looks to be the same motor.
My compression release valve had 2 crush washers under it, the replacement had only one. I started with one, then went to 2 and it didn't quite reach. I am convinced though that it is not an assembly issue, the reassembly matches the original pre-teardown photos.
I have photos of all the above, but haven't downloaded the camera yet with the side by side of the comp release valves, but they are identical.

Orig trigger/comp release prior to tear down and cleaning:











Orig motor:






New motor:






I have that same model saw as you pictured above, the model version I have is the 917.353770. The motor on that looks the same as the other motors I have for the XXX750 I'm working on.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 26, 2011)

You thoughts are correct, the points models and the solid state models did not have the same model numbers. Problem is the model numbers are on the inside of the filter cover and those can be swapped onto any of those saws.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 26, 2011)

I believe I can still use that motor, I plan to fab up a "shoe" of sorts on the end of the release lever to extend its reach a bit. I will dig around in my Box-O'-odd bits and come up with something very similar to a spent bullet casing. That will sleeve over the end of the lever where it is supposed to contact the top of the compression release valve. The length of the sleeve will not allow it to fall off the end, but will be long enough to extend the "reach" of the lever. Seems like an easy fix for this issue, and is a bit bettern' duct tape and baling wire. I can't think of any particular item I have laying about like this, so may just end up using a spent bullet casing since that is the first thing that popped into mind. Time to start digging about, of course I'll photo what I come up with. I may have to go visit Koko head shooting range and scavenge for brass casings now........


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 26, 2011)

You can always plug the comp. release hole with a short socket set screw and use a 'D' handle on the pull rope. That's what I did. I didn't trust the release to work properly.

When you get farther along, pay attention to the recoil pulley and rope. Use the largest rope that will fit as the pully grove is too wide and the rope pinches down and drags on itself.

View attachment 200612







View attachment 200613






The rope with the blue threads is some fine tuff stuff BTW.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 26, 2011)

I plan on forging ahead with the buildup, the trigger to activate the compression release valve is "external" so to speak, all I need to do to mess with it is to remove 2 screws and the side cover on the handle is off, and there's the trigger. If it doesn't get activated at this point, it will act as if the compression release hole is already plugged. Somehow I feel like I'll pull my shoulder out trying to pull that thing over without the compression release working though. I have a few ideas, but won't have quality time to play with this likely til the weekend. I have already replaced the cord with a thicker one on these saws in general and this one in particular, haven't gone to a D ring. Thanks for the crisp photos of the cords, and all your helpful suggestions.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 27, 2011)

I got those pictures of the decomp setup on my saws

I was surprised to find my "parts saw" had no decomp, not even a boss on the head to install one.





Here is the Craftsman branded saw, notice there is a pretty good size gap between the decomp lever and button.









Here is the Roper branded saw, has the same gap as the Craftsman saw.





One difference I found is the Craftsman saw has a spring loaded decomp that automatically deactivates when you flip the switch back to the run position. The Roper saw has a decomp like a modern saw and actually "snaps" back and forth, it does not deactivate until the engine starts and pops the button back out.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the great photos--note in the first photo on the parts saw, there isn't an extension on the end of the comp release trigger to depress a compression release valve, and on the other photos, it does have that extension. Mine has that as well. When you depress your compression release trigger, I'd be willing to be it contacts the top of the comp release valve and depresses it a bit. I have come up with a few ideas on how to fix mine with a protective rubber end cap that I may RTV in place as it only needs a few mm for it to contact and depress the comp release valve, and disengage from it when the trigger is released. I promise to add in photos this weekend. Thanks for taking the time to pull apart your saws and take those photos.


And can you_ BELIEVE _the deal that bluesportster02 got on the Craftsman badged Roper he posted up........that was a very exceptional score. Looks like that carb/filter cover just came out of a sealed package, brand new.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 28, 2011)

*More on the recoil pulley.*

The recoil pulley from a Homelite XL-100 series would interchange and end up with a narrower groove to match the diameter of the pull rope. The only problem is the spindle diameter is different between the Roper and Homie. You would have to make a sleeve/bushing to make up the difference.

Before I retired, a sleeve would be a quick 'government job' in the macine shop at the plant.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 28, 2011)

Okay, so I went and took some photos so they can be compared to yours. First of all though, these are the 2 compression release valves, the one on the top is the "new" one.






Here is the setup with the compression release trigger DISENGAGED: 






Here is the setup with the compression release trigger ENGAGED: 






Closer shot, engaged.






Just doesn't quite touch the top of the compression release valve. What I plan on using is one of those stout closed-end rubberized sleeves that often are shoved over the end of bolt threads, don't know what they're called but I have an assortment of them in a drawer at work, and if one of those won't fit I can find some other ones at City Mill/Ace Hardware or equiv. place here. I can shove that on and if needed I can add in a small spacer between the end of the trigger extension and the bottom of the sleeve thing and RTV it if it is a bit loose. I'll put up some photos of that when the time comes, but figured I'd owe everyone photos of the current setup so went ahead and posted them up.

Going back over your photos now, it seems there is a sort of knob-like appearance to the bottom end of the comp release trigger--the part that contacts the top of the comp release valve. Maybe mine broke off or something, but it doesn't appear to be broken. Might have broke a long time ago and the end smoothed itself out pressing down on the top of the release valve. More photos now for you just of the trigger/end.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 28, 2011)

If you use the throttle rod as a reference point it looks like your decomp lever hangs just as low as mine and your decomp button looks to be sticking up to the same height. One thing I did notice is the area that hooks on the handle looks different.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 28, 2011)

Interesting. Good eye there. I just went out and looked at mine critically, I am sure it is the same PN, but the groove does seem cut deeper in mine. I suppose I can scrounge around for a replacement compression release trigger, but the bodge job I have planned will likely work until I come across a replacement trigger. I believe you did find the problem there though.











I dug around in the box-O'-bits and found an example of what I intend to add to the end of the prong to make it longer. This one of course is way too large, but likely you'll get the idea. I suppose it is easier to do that than to gum a piece of JB weld on the worn part on the top and then file that to fit, and have it break on the first use. 





I did put on your flywheel and set the air gap, then the puller cover and gave it a few pulls without the spark plug in it but plugged into the plug wire, it made spark......


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 28, 2011)

Just looked and there is a used switch on Ebay right now, as well as some NOS air filters.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 28, 2011)

You guys are pushing down and pulling back on the on/off button, right? 

The plastic cap on my comp. release was 'mushed' from contacting the linkage. So, I guess it was working. But I didn't trust it not to leak. Only blew 110 psi in the closed position.

High compression 60 cc saw is a tad much to pull over from cold to get fuel up to the carb.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 28, 2011)

Roanoker494 said:


> Just looked and there is a used switch on Ebay right now, as well as some NOS air filters.


 
I'll have to look thru ebay and see if I can find those sites, it might be good to have a "new" trigger.

Yes, push down, pull back. Of course this saw has not been in my sole possession all its life, and honestly it almost looks as if it has been purposefully filed down there based on the transverse scratches. Can't imagine why that would have been done though.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 28, 2011)

Roanoker494 said:


> Just looked and there is a used switch on Ebay right now, as well as some NOS air filters.


 
You must have some mad internet ninja skills--I searched ebay etc and could not find a listing for the items you mentioned. Could you bottle feed me a link to them if you can get to them again. I musta gone thru about 30 pages of items, used advanced search and cut out a lot of the fluff, and still no joy.

I did find this, listed as "kill switch" but it really does not look completely like mine, the bottom appears significantly different.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEARS-CRAFT...938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51965536b2


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 28, 2011)

I am working from my phone so I can not post direct links but I can tell you the search conditions. With the search set to Newly Listed and 50 items per page you will find the switch fourth from the bottom with a search for Craftsman 3.7, it is listed as power sharp chainsaw kill switch. Using the same search settings you will find the air filter second from the top with a search for Roper 3.7.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 28, 2011)

Roanoker494 said:


> I am working from my phone so I can not post direct links but I can tell you the search conditions. With the search set to Newly Listed and 50 items per page you will find the switch fourth from the bottom with a search for Craftsman 3.7, it is listed as power sharp chainsaw kill switch. Using the same search settings you will find the air filter second from the top with a search for Roper 3.7.


 
I guess then I didn't do too badly, I found the one listed as kill switch and linked it above. I was skeptical about it being the right one though, likely will have to send an email to the seller and ask for some specific closeups.

I'll look for the filters now--found them. Thanks!!


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## Opihi59 (Sep 30, 2011)

*It's alive........*

I suppose I just couldn't help myself, but had a little bit of discretionary time tonite. Really all I needed to do for a run test was to install the plug, muffler, stuff some gas in it and give it a pull--who can restrain themselves at that point? After only a few pulls, it fired, so I closed the choke and it literally screams. I put that little "thread protector" on it to extend the reach of the compression release trigger, and that worked fine. As you've likely already guessed, I am still planning to replace that trigger with a new one when I find one. So now it runs, idles, howls up to speed in a very satisfying fashion.

The "thread protectors," I used the white one.











In installing the muffler, I noted that there was a screw hole missing in the side of the cylinder. Orig cylinder on the right, "new" cylinder installed. You can see the missing screw hole bottom center of the pot on the right. I don't think this is a problem, I could drill and tap it out, but now that the saw is running, I will tear it down again to replace the rings, re-install my old cylinder, and put it back together one more time.






Also, on the next assembly, I'll replace the crank seals. I did manage to come up with crank seals for this, part numbers below for those with Ropers that need new seals. I am not certain it really needs them as I did no pressure leak or vacuum test, but I don't think it's a bad idea since I'm doing a rebuild on a more than 40 yr old saw that I want to have around for a long time yet. It was a real pain finding those seals, but once found, now everyone can benefit from the result.






Original Seal on the right.














Of course, I haven't spiked the ball in the end zone after a 100yd kickoff return, but it's a field goal and a few points on the board. It runs, the tank halves don't leak, now I can comfortably pull it all apart again for the rest of what I want to do to it. I'll contact the Greek and buy 2 different sets of rings, and go with what fits best.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 30, 2011)

*Plans for Muffler Mod/opinions being solicited*

I'll ask later about a muffler mod when I get to it, but I have no intention of porting the cylinder, yes I have a Mig welder so will Mig in the muffler mod, but pictures for that later on down the line. This is what I have to work with, and of course, I am totally unencumbered with any experience in the matter.











I'm not sure I should pontificate or anything, but when I install spark plugs, muffler bolts etc, I alway dab on a bit of this stuff. Not just on Chainsaws, but when I do my vehicles as well.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 30, 2011)

*Muffler mods.*

My rule of thumb for muffler mods. are: *"Make the holes bigger and more of them!"*

The garter spring seems to be the most important feature of single lip seals used in a two stroke cycle engine.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 30, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> My rule of thumb for muffler mods. are: *"Make the holes bigger and more of them!"*


 
What I had in mind was a short section of round tubing, maybe 7/16" to 1/2" diameter, either bring it straight out the side of the existing muffler, or perhaps angle it a bit forwards. This mod though is a bit off in the future, but I need to start scavenging for a suitable piece of metal tubing next time I go scrounging thru my favorite junk yard.

Anyone modded this particular muffler by any chance, or should I just leave well enough alone and quit messing around?


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 30, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> What I had in mind was a short section of round tubing, maybe 7/16" to 1/2" diameter, either bring it straight out the side of the existing muffler, or perhaps angle it a bit forwards. This mod though is a bit off in the future, but I need to start scavenging for a suitable piece of metal tubing next time I go scrounging thru my favorite junk yard.
> 
> Anyone modded this particular muffler by any chance, or should I just leave well enough alone and quit messing around?



I don't remember what I did to mine, likely the above rule of thumb. In any event, it sounds like a real chainsaw and not a leaf blower.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 30, 2011)

Slick idea on the decomp fix and the seals look like they should work fine. There were two different mufflers on these saws and I would say that is why your original cylinder had an extra bolt hole.

Here is the other style muffler.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 30, 2011)

*Decomp trigger*

That is one mighty nice looking compression release trigger you got there........:drool:

I'm ordering some rings now, things seem to take a long time to pull together, even longer when stuff has to come from the mainland and I really only get dedicated time on the weekends to play with this project.

I never got a response from the ebay seller of that trigger ("kill switch"), I have a few other feelers out and we'll see how they turn out.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 30, 2011)

I wish I could mess with saws all day long but I don't think Wal-Mart would understand me running chainsaws in the produce department. I am heading to Butner NC in the morning to be in a chainsaw demonstration with several other members, this is about all the "real work" my saws ever get. Only hauling 15-16 saws with me this time..........


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## Opihi59 (Sep 30, 2011)

Have a safe and successful trip. If you happen to come across a comp trigger see if you can score it for me.........post up a buncha photos of what you encounter at Butner and any AS members you come across having fun cutting up stuff and demo-ing saws.

I just added a Plasma cutter to my garage, and can't wait to come up with a project for it. Strange how what I do for a living interferes with both my drinking time and all the other things I want to do in my garage.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 30, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> Have a safe and successful trip. If you happen to come across a comp trigger see if you can score it for me.........post up a buncha photos of what you encounter at Butner and any AS members you come across having fun cutting up stuff and demo-ing saws.
> 
> I just *added a Plasma cutter to my garage, and can't wait to come up with a project for it.* Strange how what I do for a living interferes with both my drinking time and all the other things I want to do in my garage.



Felling/bucking dogs.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 30, 2011)

I like that idea, will have to figure out where to bolt them on.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 1, 2011)

*Bar/Chain ordered*

I ordered Bar/Chain, I suppose they will get here eventually on the slow boat. Bar/chain info from technical services/sales Oregon. 

Bar-- 180PXBD082 
Chain-- 20BPX074G

_"The chain for this saw is a 20BPX074G, 180PXBD082 the bar has been discontinued for about 10 years. you may be able to go on line and find one. My suggestion is to take the bar to a saw shop and see if they can match the motor mount to a current mount. Because of the length of the chain (74 drive links) this will not be available in retail stores.
Best Regards,
Alison Heynderickx
Technical Customer Service
Oregon Cutting Systems, Blount Inc. [email protected]>
503.653.4706
800.223.5168 Toll free
503.353.6423 fax"_

I also ordered the rings from the Greek, hope these are the right ones as I ordered 4 of them.

Rings-- Piston Ring 46 x 1.5 mm - Motorbike Scooter Go-Kart | eBay

Of course, there will be pictures, results etc, it may take me a while to get back to it since it takes time to get stuff out here, but in the meantime, always glad to hear commentary from AS.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 1, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> I like that idea, will have to figure out where to bolt them on.



Front of fuel tank has the typical rib but you will have to locate and drill two or maybe three holes for #10 screws. Not much room for anything bigger.

If I still had Autocad, I'd spin you out a design.

Losing access to design software and a large machine shop has been the downside of retirement. But, every day is Saturday.:tongue2:


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## Opihi59 (Oct 8, 2011)

*Waiting for parts*

So it's been a few days with nothing to show for it. The "new" compression release trigger did get here, so I stuffed that in. It works as expected.

Side by side of new and old, old is on left and it is substantially different. I'm not certain, but for some purpose it may have been modified.











I replaced the crank seals, this is one of the new ones in. They fit, so we can use that part number for these Roper 3.7 series, and likely some others that I don't know of yet.






It may be a while before my new rings arrive on the slow boat, along with some other stuff I need to get this back in action, but figured I'd at least put this up so everyone doesn't think I went into hibernation.


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 8, 2011)

I suspect the switch was broken at some point and has just worn smooth over the years. Glad to hear the seals worked and I will have to keep up with that number for the future. The rings I ordered from "the Greek" only took 4-5 days to get to VA, so maybe it will not be such a long wait.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 8, 2011)

*Like Christmas*

I'm certainly hoping_ something_ arrives in the mail tomorrow. I have Monday off, that would be perfect to spend some quality time with my Roper, but chances are, the mailbox will be dry tomorrow. The Dragon Lady will likely have me working on the yard or something lame ladat, and the saw will sit on my makeshift work bench (all the other work spaces I use are choked with other projects....) and collect drifting loose cat hair and spiders.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 8, 2011)

I've had the same results on rings from the 'Greek'. Always here in five business days.

At least your vet is clean. Mine is filthy and up to his ankles in chainsaws.

Note to self: Buy car cover.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 9, 2011)

That Vette of mine needs a lot more attention than it has been getting lately....

So my rings arrived, direct from Athens (Greece, not Georgia) , mail came very late today so I didn't get them til the sun was going down. Ten Days--faster than I get stuff from the East Coast. I have already installed one set, they fit a lot closer on the end gap than the original rings. Not as tight as I had wanted, they're 0.022 but way closer than the fit before, I have forgotten what that was but it was in the 0.063ish + range. They have a notch for the locating pin cut in the backside of the ring that allows this closer fit. The rings I went with are 46mm X 1.5mm, I was considering getting 47mm X 1.5mm and then filing the gap to where I could get about 0.003-0.005 end gap, and filing a pin clearance cut out as per 67L36Driver but didn't know if this would be feasible with the larger dia rings and if they'd fit the bore properly or make a mess of things. I decided to be on the conservative side as I don't want to trash my saw trying to accomplish something I should have left alone. 

Having gathering tonite for middle son's 18th birthday, so have now put saw things aside to mess with tomorrow. Sunday AM, Church of Roper. You know there will be photos. I hope to get far enough to at least get some compression numbers to compare to the 145 pre-build, if not maybe fire it up, annoy the neighbors, and smoke out that assembly lube I loaded in there.

The little ebay 2.3 cube Craftsman saw I bought on the 27th Sept still hasn't arrived, so it will be next weekend before I get to toy with that prize.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 9, 2011)

*New rings*

So this is what came in the mail yesterday, you can see they have cutouts for the locating pin.






The originals were 0.060, these are 0.057






When I fit them in the cylinder to test end gap, this is how it looks, mics out at 0.022






Compression test after assembly






And this is the compression when the compression release valve is depressed






This was the original ring thickness






This was the original ring gap


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## Opihi59 (Oct 9, 2011)

*So now for the rest of the story.....*

I fueled it and went for a test run. I got it to fire off numerous times, but it would not stay running; it would just bog down and die when I released the compression release trigger and tried to finger the throttle. Did this numerous times. I managed to yank the knot off the starter rope in the process so had to replace the rope, and then of course my arm/chest got tired since the boys and I got challenged to a bench press contest with my kids ([email protected] teenagers...) 2 days ago and I'm still sore. Of course it turned out to be a bit of a frustrating end to the afternoon's work so I decided to do something peaceful and relaxing--_giving my youngest son his first driving lesson._

If anyone has some suggestions, let me know. It almost sounds like it isn't getting fuel but remember that it was running good before this final installation of the rings and reassembly, and I also replaced the crank seals since the last time it ran.


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 9, 2011)

The situation you describe is usually the sign of a fuel delivery, maybe try resetting the carb needles and try a new plug. If you had a seal leaking it would be more likely that the saw would "race" until you shut it down or it would eventually lean out enough to cut itself off, a bad enough leak and it probably would not even start.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 9, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> I fueled it and went for a test run. I got it to fire off numerous times, but it would not stay running; it would just bog down and die when I released the compression release trigger and tried to finger the throttle. Did this numerous times. I managed to yank the knot off the starter rope in the process so had to replace the rope, and then of course my arm/chest got tired since the boys and I got challenged to a bench press contest with my kids ([email protected] teenagers...) 2 days ago and I'm still sore. Of course it turned out to be a bit of a frustrating end to the afternoon's work so I decided to do something peaceful and relaxing*--giving my youngest son his first driving lesson.*
> If anyone has some suggestions, let me know. It almost sounds like it isn't getting fuel but remember that it was running good before this final installation of the rings and reassembly, and I also replaced the crank seals since the last time it ran.



Glad I don't have to go there again.

Try opening up the 'L' jet a quarter to half turn.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 9, 2011)

*Testing #2*

So I am a firm believer in the following--if you did something ("fixed"/modified/changed) and it doesn't run like before, then likely whatever you fixed/modified/changed is the first thing to suspect. 

That being said, I spent some more time pulling the cord. On 2nd pull it burbled, and on 3rd it ran a bit. Next try I got it to run and flipped off the compression release and nailed the throttle a few time gently. It ran for a bit, idled but on giving it gas on another attempt, it bogged down and died like it was over choked. Over about a 20 min period it seemed like it ran better and better (longer, and even idled a bit) but it still bogged and died. It did cough out some thick stuff from the exhaust onto the concrete, but progressively less and less. May have been the grease from packing in the needle bearings from the wrist pin, and the 2 stroke oil I used for assembly lube. I am going to let it sit for a while and mess with it again later on. Here is a photo of my carb, I suppose it needs an adjustment since the compression has changed, but there is only an idle speed adjustment and a single needle adjustment available. This was a pre-teardown photo so it is clean now, and with a new fuel line. but the only adjustment besides idle is the shaft coming out the bottom of the picture. I am hoping someone can tell me more about this carb.






You can see the screwdriver slot of that shaft coming thru the grommit in a lateral view.






Son #3 did real well on his first driving lesson, I teach everyone on a clutch (that's all we have actually) so that's the first thing to master. He did real well, took off smooth first time and then for about the first 15-20 times but then he likely got a bit careless or cocky and had a few lurching starts (chirp, chirp, chirp.....) I don't quite need a Cervical collar or a Miami J collar but this is the 3rd son and about the 15th person I've taught how to drive a clutch. I went down to the waterfront Pearl Harbor over on the Western side where there is a huge concrete pad that used to floor a warehouse. Warehouse is gone. The pad and surrounding area is populated by a cluster of Pacific Golden Plovers locally known as Kolea. They winter here from the Arctic and fly back around March/April timeframe to lay their eggs and raise a family. We did this for an hour while the Kolea watched us apprehensively and nervously scurried out of the way as we lurched by. They stake out a patch of ground and don't seem to move more than about 50' from their spot. They yielded to the Jeep though. More on Kolea on another installment.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 9, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> I am hoping someone can tell me more about this carb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's the 'L' (low speed) jet adjustment. Turn it out 1 1/2 turns from lightly seated and you will be in the ballpark. If it bogs/dies when you pull the trigger turn it out a tad more. If it still bogs/dies when you pull the trigger start out at 1 turn from lightly seated.

Looks like you may have a fixed High speed jet on the Tilly. Is there a blind hole to the right of your 'L' needle?


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 9, 2011)

B.T.W.

That link from the carb to the plunger needs a small flat washer against the cotter key for the link to bear against. Without a flat washer the cotter key and link will jam the throttle open. B.T.D.T. Scary.

Plunger controls rate of oil flow to the bar.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 10, 2011)

Didn't have one when I disassembled (that is a pre-disassembly photo) but it will have one first thing tomorrow once I get back on it. I have a box-O'-washers I can sort thru. Thanks. Then will back out that adjustment screw coming thru the grommit 1/4 to 1/2 a turn. It's beer time now.

Any thoughts on this photo? Is this "original" or has it been modified? There is a sharp edge to it (hidden under the knot) that is eating starter cords and I can't believe it would be factory. Of course if it isn't factory, I'll be looking for a replacement.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 10, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> *Didn't have one when I disassembled* (that is a pre-disassembly photo) but it will have one first thing tomorrow once I get back on it. I have a box-O'-washers I can sort thru. Thanks. Then will back out that adjustment screw coming thru the grommit 1/4 to 1/2 a turn. It's beer time now.
> 
> Any thoughts on this photo? Is this "original" or has it been modified? There is a sharp edge to it (hidden under the knot) that is eating starter cords and I can't believe it would be factory. Of course *if it isn't factory, I'll be looking for a replacement.*



Let's call the flat washer a post-production fix, weather it had one originally or not.

How wide is the groove on that pulley? The original is about 9/32" which is way too wide.

That pulley may be another post-production fix and they shure needed it! The early Roper and the Homie XL-100 series has a somewhat undersize pulley (about 3/4" on the diameter). The smaller pulley combined with the displacement (60cc) make them a 'hard to pull over' engine. So much so that I've broken pull ropes and sheared knots off the end.

The Roper is especially bad as the groove is too wide for the rope and under tension the rope pulls down against itself and jams in the groove making it harder to pull than it should be.

Like this:

View attachment 202204






If the groove width is 1/8"-5/32" I would leave it as is.

Use your die grinder or Dremmel to chamfer and smoothe the sharp edges of the rope anchor. Cut or grind down the ends of those three screws flush with the nuts.

I have a 'D' handle on mine.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 10, 2011)

Without the compression release, it would be a real bear to turn that thing over, especially now with the increased compression from the new rings. It was annoying just to do the compression test adequately. I can see it now--a chainsaw with a kick starter. I am running the thickest rope I could find. Chances are I will polish the edges of the hole that cord runs thru, and will disassemble that component and see how if it looks post production factory mod, or if it was something my Dad did to it. I suppose that will be further down the line after I have it comfortably running again, or as soon as I pull off another knot on the starter cord.

I fashioned a washer for the oil flow plunger. I wanted a very thin washer, with small bearing surface/large center hole for its overall size. Ended up drilling out a small washer, then grinding a flat on one side and honing it down so it would clear the link, but not have too much thickness to cause the plunger to engage much earlier in the travel than originally. I installed that. In addition I looked at the carb as per 67L36Driver and yes, there is a blind hole to the right of the one adjustment screw, it appears that an earlier version of that carb had an adjustment there for the high speed jet. Apparently I can only adjust the low speed jet which is likely a bonus because that way I only have one adjustment I can screw up rather than two......

Roanoker instructed me to change the spark plug which led me to consider what is the correct plug. I looked on Searsparts for the orig PN which was Sears part 9409H which is a CJ6 plug, listed by them in the substitution window as 254/CJ6. I went to Championsparkplugs.com where they list for Craftsman 3.7 equipped chainsaws a CJ6 plug, so at least we're consistent. http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=60&mfid=2
The plug in the saw at present is a DJ8J, and looking in my other Roper 3.7 Craftsman it has a CJ8Y. I suppose I'll be heading out to find a pair of CJ6 sparkplugs. Interestingly the other Roper I got as a parts saw had been "overhauled" at a shop and had a brand new plug in it--the CJ8Y plug. That's the saw the owner bought but could not start it up again after an initial use so he sold it to me for $45. So if anyone has any special recommendations regarding spark plugs for these Ropers, let me know as I'll be holding off purchase until I hear back from the experts.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 10, 2011)

*Finding I need more parts*

I had today off, Federal Holiday, so I got to mess with the saw some more. I can start it and feather the throttle to keep it going bit it chokes out. I have noticed that it will "pull" the choke wide open by itself for some reason, like it literally sucks the butterfly open. I can keep it running longer if I block the choke at about the half to 3/4 point. So I fiddled with this for about 20 minutes and then pulled the knot off the starter cord again. More on that after spark plug photos.

Here is a side by side between the DJ8J plug that was in the saw, and the CJ8Y that was in the "parts Roper," it appears that the electrode sits further down inside the chamber on the CJ8Y, while the DJ8J has a conical sealing surface, the CJ8Y has the crush washers. I'm not real sure how that one came to be in the current saw (DJ8J) but it sure does not appear to be the right one just by eyeball.







So since I yanked off the cord (again, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr) , I figured it was time to go ahead and tear into the pull-start mechanism. The washer thing and the nuts with the pinched off screw threads had been done by my Dad as a repair. I was suspicious that this had been done as it did look like the way my Dad would have done things, but I couldn't be sure why until I pulled it all apart. The pulley had at some point fractured in half, and this was a repair. The threads had been left pinched as an "anti-come-loose" measure. Back when it had broken, it was very likely that parts were available new from Sears for this, but it was not his way to buy something new if he could spend an hour or 2 fabricating a repair and just drive on.


























So at this point, let's just say I am still a black-hole of need. I'm looking now for a new pulley. I don't believe I will need the whole assembly though but that is the way I see them on ebay, and it seems a waste to buy that part and thereby deny someone else a puller cover, etc when all I need is the pulley. If you have one of them rattling around in your parts bin/drawer gathering cat hair, I need it. Send me a PM and we'll work out the details. In the meantime, I'll be lurking around on ebay, and moping about since I can't play with this rebuild project. In the meantime you can be sure I'll be whining about something else, and/or posting up some OT photos, such as how Pearl Harbor and West Oahu looks like off my Lanai.
Sun setting over Makakilo


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 10, 2011)

PM me your mailing address and you can have the pulley I got when I was going round and round with my Roper recoil. For nothing, as long as the postage don't get stupid.

That pulley fix exaserbated (sp.?) the rope pinch problem and is likely why it split in the first place.

Project saws very seldom have the correct spark plugs in them. Joe homeowner just picks something up at the local hardware store. I never go by what it has in there.

CJ6 is what you need. Don't use Champion plugs ending in Y (extended tip) unless they call for it. The extended tip can damage your piston or the piston will close up the gap to nothing and you wonder why it won't start.

Carl.

Why don't the spell check in this widow work????


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## bluesportster02 (Oct 10, 2011)

thanks for the great thread i am learning a lot a bought these saws. i didnt realize it had a compression release but i haven't done much with it since i bought it. i am going to have to start looking for a manual oiler button for mine so it will be complete. will any .325 chain work or do i need a special one for the power sharp


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## Opihi59 (Oct 10, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> PM me your mailing address and you can have the pulley I got when I was going round and round with my Roper recoil. For nothing, as long as the postage don't get stupid.


 
PM sent, and of course thank you for all your help and support.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 10, 2011)

bluesportster02 said:


> thanks for the great thread i am learning a lot a bought these saws. i didnt realize it had a compression release but i haven't done much with it since i bought it. i am going to have to start looking for a manual oiler button for mine so it will be complete. will any .325 chain work or do i need a special one for the power sharp


 
I'd go with the bar/chain combo I either put in your thread or PM'd to you. Seems I didn't have my "save sent messages" box clicked so I can't go back and check. I do have the info if you need it on the 18" bar/chain combo though, and sources. 
That power sharp thing really just isn't that great of an option. I believe most people found it to be more of a nuisance than a benefit on their saws. A lot of those saws you'll see just has that attachment removed.
Thanks for the friend request, I am still learning how this forum works and am still learning the ropes.


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## jeeptj19992001 (Oct 10, 2011)

got one of those sitting in my shop right now. the saw is in pristine condition. was not used that much at all, but it does not have spark. the solid state ignition has gone out in it. do not know if i will sell it as a parts saw or try to find a ignition. mine pulls a 160# on the cylinder.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 10, 2011)

jeeptj19992001 said:


> got one of those sitting in my shop right now. the saw is in pristine condition. was not used that much at all, but it does not have spark. the solid state ignition has gone out in it. do not know if i will sell it as a parts saw or try to find a ignition. mine pulls a 160# on the cylinder.


 
It's too good of a saw to leave in languish. You can find a replacement Ignition unit on ebay, there is at least one there currently. If I were you I'd fix it and enjoy it, it's worth it. Pristine?!! How could you think otherwise. Too bad you don't live in Hawaii.

Just noticed you're a Jeeper--that means you are accustomed to fixing things: JEEP--Just Empty Every Pocket/Just Expect Every Problem. I've got a YJ and TJ Rubicon in the driveway, and use the same screen name on Jeepforum.com


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## Opihi59 (Oct 11, 2011)

Photo for 67L36Driver. This is the blind hole on the Tilly carb, you can just see the dimple in this photo just below where the links cross.


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## jeeptj19992001 (Oct 11, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> It's too good of a saw to leave in languish. You can find a replacement Ignition unit on ebay, there is at least one there currently. If I were you I'd fix it and enjoy it, it's worth it. Pristine?!! How could you think otherwise. Too bad you don't live in Hawaii.
> 
> Just noticed you're a Jeeper--that means you are accustomed to fixing things: JEEP--Just Empty Every Pocket/Just Expect Every Problem. I've got a YJ and TJ Rubicon in the driveway, and use the same screen name on Jeepforum.com


 

have a 03 rubi, maxed out on 36's, tt...etc.....
ya working on too many things....


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## Opihi59 (Oct 13, 2011)

*Waiting for parts*

About 2 wks ago I ordered a bar (180PXBD082) from Mel-co parts off ebay. Since they had it advertised and knowing that it wasn't available thru Oregon for something like the last 10 years, I was happy to buy it. Figured they'd be happy to send it to me as well since they advertised it. Since I found the bar, I went ahead and ordered Two chains from another source ( 20BPX074G ) which actually arrived yesterday. * HOWEVER*, today I got the email from Mel Co parts that they do not have this bar, and can't get it. Nice. So now I have 2 chains for a bar I do not have. I suppose if I had been unable to find that bar, I would have looked at other combos even a 20", but now being stuck with 2 nice 0.325 pitch 0.050 74 link chains, I am forced to hunt down this bar from a place that *1)* actually has it when I buy it, and *2)* will ship it here via some other modality than UPS which costs as much or more than any bar. That's why USPS is really the only way to get things to the tortured lump of rock I live on. I called a few places on the mainland today to find this bar, but since I am 6 time zones later than the Eastern US, nothing was open so this is a project for tomorrow. I am guessing I'll be able to find it.

I will also be looking for a bar/chain combo 18" preferably for the Roper Craftsman XXX770 I have, it requires a 180SKBD176 bar and a 
20BPX072G chain. This is also 0.325 pitch 0.050 gauge. I am learning about bar mounts D082 vs D176 and honestly feel that with my die grinder and carbide bit I could make one into the other just by cutting the oil holes needed. However, it seems 0.325 pitch isn't as popular as it once was and 3/8 pitch has taken over.
Now I found I can get a bar with a nose I can change over from 3/8 to 0.325 pitch, but then no body seems to know what chain would work on it and I'd just have to hop on over to my specialty chainsaw shop and they'd fix me right up. They just don't seem to feature such a place in my time zone, that's the only problem there. It's not like Waikiki is the happening place for the timber industry.

Anybody know if/how I can change the drive sprocket over to one that would accept 3/8 pitch chain? This is breaking new ground for me.
At any rate, I am awaiting parts, I have a starter spool in the mail now and I'm getting all excited about pulling that outta the mailbox and getting the saw running. And yes, I know, I'm looking for a bar for a saw I have_ that does not run yet_.


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 13, 2011)

I hate when that happens. These companies nowadays run their inventories off of outdated electronic catalogs instead of the old tried and true "hands on" approach. 

I have one of the 180PXBD176 bars on my newer Craftsman 3.7 and it fits just as well as the original bar. The D176 bar will also bolt right onto the Roper you are rebuilding, I believe the bar studs are around a 1/2mm smaller then the bar slot but it work just fine. You could also consider changing the drive sprocket to 3/8th, my roper branded saw has the 3/8th so I know the sprockets are out there somewhere.

Keep a eye on your mailbox because you have a package coming with a few parts you may find useful.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm sure to be trekking out to the mailbox like a little kid waiting for his Captain Midnight secret decoder ring to show up.....woo hoo!!

I've struck out on the 180PXBD082 bar after calling multiple places that advertise it and even have price listing for it, I suppose I'll be modifying a D176 mount style bar and hoping those 74 link chains I bought will work on it. I understand that D176 mount bar to use 72 link chain. Just annoying. Now if anyone happens to have a reasonably serviceable 180PXBD082 bar they wouldn't mind parting with, please send me a PM so we can work out details. 

If there are any part numbers of a 3/8 style sprocket that will slip onto my PTO in place of the 0.325 I presently have, I'd really like to hear from anyone with this information. Source for same would be great as well, or any other tidbits of knowledge I can sponge up from the forum.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 14, 2011)

Alrighty then, I put the D176 mount style bar on the Roper that requires the D082 style bar. Of course it fits fine. I put one of my brand squeaky new (20BPX074G) 74 link chains on it, and it is fine for length, even has planny adjustment room if it stretches to keep properly snug. Then I took that same combination and put it on the other Roper (917.353770) and it fits fine. Supposedly the D082 saw needs the 74 link, and the XXX770 saw with the D176 mount and that bar is supposed to take a 72 link chain. I don't see that need. Both saws fit that bar fine, the chain is fine on both saws. I don't get why Oregon tells me otherwise. So I am still game for a 180PXBD082 bar just since it is "original," but also in the market for a 180SKBD176 bar which although I have been told is still available, I cannot find it and Oregon tells me they don't have it.

So, being the typical black hole of need you have all become accustomed to seeing me as, I am in the market for either bar, and if someone does know where to get that 180SKBD176 bar, I'll buy one new and get it sent out here from somewhere. 

I did find a gentleman in the MA area with one, and see if I can work out a way to secure that item; we are communicating by email at this point and he likely recognizes me for a lunatic. I suppose, he's not too far off with that impression.

On a more celebratory note, I did get a nice package in the mail today from 67L36driver, a starter sprocket!!!!! I will work on that this weekend and let you all know how it comes out, with pictures as well. There is a subtle difference, the "new" one has three prongs for the starter pawls to hook into, while my orig has 4. Honestly I do not think this matters at all, as that saw was used for a long time with only one starter pawl instead of 2 with out a problem, unless it was one perhaps of balance. More to come later.

Here is what the *917.353750 *looks like, (the one I am working on in this thread) followed by its D082 style mount, followed by a modified bar to fit it. You can see the oil holes were drilled and the end clipped off. You can also see the oil hole in the channel so I think this was actually a modified D176 bar made to work on this saw.


















Now here is the *917.353770 *saw, followed by its D176 style mount, followed by the proper bar for it. You can see the oil hole in the channel.


















The difference? Note where the oil holes are. The first saw D082 oils into the thru hole in the bar, which is closer to the mount studs, while on the D176 mount, the oil hole is further away from the studs, and seeps into the weep hole drilled into the channel.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 14, 2011)

I know you're looking for an 18" bar, but I just purchased a Fores-ter 20" b&c (sprocket nose) for my Skilsaw 1645/Power Machinery 340 for 28 USD. The number is M205070-X replaces Oregon 200SLHD176.

Modifying stuff is why they make drill motors and bits.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 15, 2011)

So I haven't been able to do much more on the Roper, I kept breaking the starter cord. The current pulley had been repaired in the distant past, but had worked well that way for a long time. However it had a sharp edge that kept shearing the cord. I started working on a fix by putting in a 1/4" brass grommet as below.










Looked like it should work but ended up putting it aside as 67L36Driver mailed me a "new" starter pulley which came in the mail earlier this week. I believe I'll set the grommet fix on the shelf and forge ahead with the new pulley. Only difference I note is that it has 3 engagement parts for the starter pawls, and the orig had four. New one:










Old one:






I am going to work on installing the new pulley, I can't see any reason for it not to work, it appears to engage fine on initial application.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 15, 2011)

What you can do with the 'take apart' pulley is make a shim out of a plastic coffee can lid to narrow it up to fit the rope better.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 16, 2011)

So I have the new pulley in from 67L36driver and the saw running. It seems to idle well now, but at WOT there is a "skip" of sorts. I figure it needs a bit more diddling with, but I got distracted by my 2 new 55's in another thread, and teaching son #3 more driving lessons. There is always tomorrow to annoy the neighbors with screaming saws.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 16, 2011)

Messed with the Roper some more today after I put away the two 55's. I can get it to run, but it isn't easy. As it starts, it will suck the choke wide open, and kill itself unless you block the choke with your finger and feather the throttle. It skips/misses at open throttle. I finally managed to get it to sit and idle which I let it do for about 20 mins til it ran outta gas. I had screwed in the low speed screw, then backed it out 1.5 turns first. It really doesn't seem to be running well at all. I am supposing it could be the new rings seating, so hopefully letting it idle thru a 1/4 tank may help them seat better. I cannot explain the skip/miss at more open throttle but not sure it could pull a chain thru many twigs right now. Of course, it ran pretty doggone good but with low compression before the rebuild. It has all new fuel lines and it ran on these before the new rings. I'm curious if it needs some better exhaust flow since it has higher compression, I didn't have the exhaust cover screws on tight, and one fell out, the cover would blow out when I brapped the throttle meaning to me, it needs better exhaust flow? Any idea why it would suck the choke open by itself? For now, leaving it on the bench til I come up with a fix for my other project saws.


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## Mastermind (Oct 16, 2011)

Could it be an electrical thingy??? Just thinking out loud here...


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 16, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> Messed with the Roper some more today after I put away the two 55's. I can get it to run, but it isn't easy. As it starts, it will suck the choke wide open, and kill itself unless you block the choke with your finger and feather the throttle. It skips/misses at open throttle. I finally managed to get it to sit and idle which I let it do for about 20 mins til it ran outta gas. I had screwed in the low speed screw, then backed it out 1.5 turns first. It really doesn't seem to be running well at all. I am supposing it could be the new rings seating, so hopefully letting it idle thru a 1/4 tank may help them seat better. I cannot explain the skip/miss at more open throttle but not sure it could pull a chain thru many twigs right now. Of course, it ran pretty doggone good but with low compression before the rebuild. It has all new fuel lines and it ran on these before the new rings. I'm curious if it needs some better exhaust flow since it has higher compression, I didn't have the exhaust cover screws on tight, and one fell out, the cover would blow out when I brapped the throttle meaning to me, it needs better exhaust flow? Any idea why it would suck the choke open by itself? For now, leaving it on the bench til I come up with a fix for my other project saws.


 
Don't go jumping the gun and buying a replacement carb because the "package" I sent contains a full adjustable Tilly HS, carb spacer, rubber grommet for the adjuster screws and a fresh oem carb kit. All you will need is a couple of carb base gaskets, which can be easily made from sheet material.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 16, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> Messed with the Roper some more today after I put away the two 55's. I can get it to run, but it isn't easy. As it starts, *it will suck the choke wide open*, and kill itself unless you block the choke with your finger and feather the throttle. It skips/misses at open throttle.



Somewhere along the line when the carb. was disassembled, the ball detent and spring has been lost from the choke shaft. The sring and then a tiny steel ball fits in a hole 90 deg. to the choke shaft. The choke shaft has a dimple so the detent will hold it open. The detent also adds enuff friction so it won't suck open.

Most all Tilleys and Walbros have them.

I had to use a ball of bead (key) chain and a section of ball point pen spring on the Carter ND in one of my Remingtons.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 17, 2011)

Hard to jump the gun on this cinder pile in the middle of the Pacific--I will be watching for the package. Out here I have to be patient. I can't wait now for the mail to come......course, I gotta wait for the weekend to play with the saws again. I'm excited, hope you'll be able to teach me what to do with the stuff when it gets here. 

I never had an issue with the choke sucking itself open before, hard to say why that started. Does it have anything to do perhaps with restored compression? Makes it suck harder too?

Mastermind--I suppose it could be an issue with an electrical thingey as well, but not quite sure how to check. It does make spark, the air gap is set fine on the flywheel, etc. When I get it to run, it burbles along nicely on idle, but has the miss/skip on opening the throttle.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Drive sprocket*

Since I had acquired a pair of Husky 55's this weekend and tore into them, I had a few thoughts. The 55's I got have 3/8 pitch drives, and this Roper is .325 pitch. I was looking at the sprockets and found that they are essentially interchangeable with some differences. Key thing is that they both have matching 7 splines, and will fit perfectly onto the clutch hub. Side by side comparisons. Husqvarna on left, Roper on Right--Reverse side view.







Roper:






Husqvarna:






Flip side, or Obverse as the numismatic enthusiasts amongst the AS fold would say.






The key difference to note is the difference in thickness, the Roper has a flange/boss on each side of the drive sprocket. I feel I could match this with spacers, and then run the 3/8 sprocket on the Roper allowing me to swap over to an easier to find Bar/chain combo on the Roper so I may not have to modify a D176 (also hard to find in .325) or go to a K041 .325 bar which can be made to work as well.










I somehow feel this is an independant discovery of some sort, but folks likely already know this out there. Does anyone have any thoughts about doing this as an option? I just happen to have a spare 55 drive sprocket in 3/8 pitch since one of my 55's is a parts saw.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 18, 2011)

Rim sprockets are supposed to float on the spline hub so the chain can align itself with the bar. The extra thickness on the one will have a little effect, but not much. They are escentially interchangeable.

Change the Roper to 3/8" x 7 or whatever to suit the bar nose.

Sudden thought: The extra thickness on the .325 x 7 is so the chain will align with the (obsolete) Power Sharp contraption.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Wear?*

So just looking at the photos again, those divots in the rim of my Roper sprocket--are those from wear? Or is that the way it was made? 
On the Husqvarna sprocket, I notice some "bright" spots that to me appear that they could be an indication of early wear, and with more time/use, they will deepen.

Anybody have thoughts on that? Is my Roper sprocket totally shot?


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## Chris J. (Oct 18, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> So just looking at the photos again, those divots in the rim of my Roper sprocket--are those from wear? Or is that the way it was made?
> On the Husqvarna sprocket, I notice some "bright" spots that to me appear that they could be an indication of early wear, and with more time/use, they will deepen.
> 
> Anybody have thoughts on that? Is my Roper sprocket totally shot?




Yes, the Roper sprocket is shot. Don't try use it, you'll mess up the drivers on your chain (a lesson I learned the hard way with a brand new chain).


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 18, 2011)

Chris J. said:


> Yes, the Roper sprocket is shot. Don't try use it, you'll mess up the drivers on your chain (a lesson I learned the hard way with a brand new chain).



Yup, that puppy is done.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 19, 2011)

*Bleah*



67L36Driver said:


> Yup, that puppy is done.


 
Well doo doo.....................shux, where can I find a replacement? Anyone know of any substitutions or sources? Since I found out the Husqvarna fits and comes in .325 as well as 3/8, I may look for one of those, so I can still run my brand new chains I already bought. I'll poke around and see what I come up with and post up results when I come across something that works.:msp_mad:


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## Opihi59 (Oct 19, 2011)

Just went to look for a PN on _Searsparts.whatever _and they list it as available, so I bought two. Why not, I have 2 Ropers. They wouldn't allow "standard shipping" since I live on a rock and they had some extreme super expensive mode where a limo brings it directly to my house where a tuxedo wearing attendant hands it to me, apparently based on how much they wanted me to pay. It therefore gets to go to my Sister's house in rural KY and she can put it in a small envelope and shuttle it to me for about $2. We've had to do that a lot with tons of stuff, it is a pain for her but it ends up way way cheaper from some places that won't ship without some predatory pricing penalty. "Paradise Tax." Bastigiz!! At any rate, we'll see what the new ones look like. Good thing that I am not in a hurry and this is a labor of love.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 25, 2011)

Roanoker494 said:


> Don't go jumping the gun and buying a replacement carb because the "package" I sent contains a full adjustable Tilly HS, carb spacer, rubber grommet for the adjuster screws and a fresh oem carb kit. All you will need is a couple of carb base gaskets, which can be easily made from sheet material.



Package got here with a very nice little HS 79A Tilly carb and gasket/diaphragm set. I tried to send PM, but your box is choked and I didn't want to not let you know it had got here intact and fine for its Hawaiian vacation. I'll put it on this saw when I get a moment depending on how late I get home from work this week and see how it goes. Even the Dragon Lady said "what a cute little carb..." If she had paid any attn to my Walbros and Zamas, she'd likely recognize its a Mongo big unit.

Thanks!!! :msp_thumbup:


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 26, 2011)

*Speaking of shipping.*

The coffee made the trip. Thanks bud.

Still tinkering with the dosage required on my little 4 cup maker.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 27, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> The coffee made the trip. Thanks bud.
> 
> Still tinkering with the dosage required on my little 4 cup maker.



Err on the strong side, dilute with hot water to your liking. It's certainly not Kopi Luwak, but Kona Coffee is reasonably decent stuff. 

Roper action is on the side at the moment while I work on the 2.3 oiler issue. I was wanting to use that saw this weekend but it will all have to wait. Whatever parts arrive in the mailbox first dictate which needy saw gets the attention. My wife asks me how I keep it all straight, but somehow, it all makes sense.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 27, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> Err on the strong side, dilute with hot water to your liking. It's certainly not Kopi Luwak, but Kona Coffee is reasonably decent stuff.
> 
> Roper action is on the side at the moment while I work on the 2.3 oiler issue. I was wanting to use that saw this weekend but it will all have to wait. Whatever parts arrive in the mailbox first dictate which needy saw gets the attention. My wife asks me *how I keep it all straight*, but somehow, it all makes sense.



Normally we use one generous tablespoon of Folgers Blak Silk in my 'maker. We are up to two heaping tablespoons of Kona. Tastes good.

Must not take much to wake up sandwich islanders. 

I tried to have only one saw major project going at a time. 

That has gone out the window as I have two XL-113 types getting major overhaul, a C5 getting fuel tank repair and more, an XL-800 for major rebuild (lots of expensive parts needed), a Poulan 655 (Pioneer P62) needing fuel tank repair and maybe rings and lately a Wards Powr-Kraft (David Bradley) undergoing evaluation.

I need to discriminate more carefully which orphans to adopt.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 27, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> Must not take much to wake up sandwich islanders.


 

For whatever reason, caffeine has no effect on me per se as far as sleep/wake issues. I have determined though that it serves as a facultative neurotransmitter--without it none of my standard cerebral neurotransmitters can function. I suppose if I had a caffeine transdermal patch I wouldn't spend so much time going whiz.

Hoping this weekend or so I can post up more progress on this build, but I am sidelined by a Jeep issue now.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 29, 2011)

*New carb action*

I put the rebuild kit in the new HS 79A carb and installed it, could only get the saw to fire very briefly then immed die. For the 0.376 seconds it fired, it sounded very robust. But it died. I took carb apart, checked all passages again, checked the assembly of diaphragms and gaskets, checked the feed valve, all looked fine. It is just not feeding fuel. I can get it to fire if I pour gas down the carb, then crank, but no change. I checked the fuel lines by blowing air both ways, then I disassembled the entire saw again, pulled piston, cylinder, took apart bottom end, blew out anything that could be in there, rings look fine, etc, checked all pulse lines, gaskets, reed valves, everything. Then put it all back together after checking carb gaskets and diaphragms again. Still wouldn't run. Of course, I am certain I have the rebuild kit in correctly (but you've all heard that before......but I am certain it is right) I had dialed out the low/high needles to 1.5 then 2.0 turns after gentle seating. Of course, blew all this out with carb cleaner, etc. No compressed air........

So I put it down for the weekend. Not sure what else to do, or what to check. I am certain it is a carburetion problem, and this is the second carb now. It's more than just a little bit annoying. On another note, I have time to drink beer now.

Happy to receive suggestions. I'm not going to drop this, this is THE saw I want to run if any of them are gonna run.


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 29, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> I put the rebuild kit in the new HS 79A carb and installed it, could only get the saw to fire very briefly then immed die. For the 0.376 seconds it fired, it sounded very robust. But it died. I took carb apart, checked all passages again, checked the assembly of diaphragms and gaskets, checked the feed valve, all looked fine. *It is just not feeding fuel.* I can get it to fire if I pour gas down the carb, then crank, but no change. I checked the fuel lines by blowing air both ways, then I disassembled the entire saw again, pulled piston, cylinder, took apart bottom end, blew out anything that could be in there, rings look fine, etc, checked all pulse lines, gaskets, reed valves, everything. Then put it all back together after checking carb gaskets and diaphragms again. Still wouldn't run. Of course, I am certain I have the rebuild kit in correctly (but you've all heard that before......but I am certain it is right) I had dialed out the low/high needles to 1.5 then 2.0 turns after gentle seating. Of course, blew all this out with carb cleaner, etc. No compressed air........
> 
> So I put it down for the weekend. Not sure what else to do, or what to check. I am certain it is a carburetion problem, and this is the second carb now. It's more than just a little bit annoying. On another note, I have time to drink beer now.
> 
> Happy to receive suggestions. I'm not going to drop this, this is THE saw I want to run if any of them are gonna run.



Check carefully the impulse passage from the crankcase to the carb.. Flange gaskets that come with generic repair kits are sometimes off on the hole for the passage.

I had something similar with my first Rem. 75A. The impulse hole was off by an hour (clockwise) or two.

Using the semi-transparent green fuel line? Crappy line but great to monitor fuel flow.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 30, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> Check carefully the impulse passage from the crankcase to the carb.. Flange gaskets that come with generic repair kits are sometimes off on the hole for the passage.
> 
> I had something similar with my first Rem. 75A. The impulse hole was off by an hour (clockwise) or two.
> 
> Using the semi-transparent green fuel line? Crappy line but great to monitor fuel flow.



I suppose if I can figure out which hole is what, I'll try that. Will take it apart again....................but not this weekend. I'm DUN. I went and cranked up 2 other saws I had put together just to hear them run and let the neighbors know I wasn't sick or something. They're having a Halloween party I intend to crash later for free beer and whatever food they have laying around. Maybe take a chainsaw with me and some sorta Freddy Kruger facemask.

Tygon line--is that bad stuff? I thought it was the stuff to use.


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 30, 2011)

Maybe the inlet needle lever is not set correctly or you have the pump diaphragm and gasket reversed.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 30, 2011)

Roanoker494 said:


> Maybe the inlet needle lever is not set correctly or you have the pump diaphragm and gasket reversed.


 
I checked to make sure the diaphragm was seated in the slot in the inlet needle lever on the first go round, and on subsequent takedowns. I had pulled out the needle to make sure it was clean without gunk, it was good. On that side of the carb, I put it just the way it was on disassembly, and it matched comparisons I made online. I have it this way on the inlet needle side: Carb body, gasket, diaphragm, cover. On the other side it is: carb body, diaphragm (flap valves) , gasket, cover.

I am sure I have something not quite right, just can't figure it out, and anyone else on the forum would have it going by now. I feel it is a carb problem but I'm not experienced enough to figure it out. I pulled the whole saw apart down to the basic individual components to make sure I hadn't missed something obvious. I know it is likely simple, I just can't seem to get it together.


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 30, 2011)

The problem I have on these carbs it I alwayd end up bending that inlet needle lever when I pull the old diapharm off, but that usually bends them up and causes a flooding issue. If your lever happens to be set to low it would cause the problem you describe. I can never remember if the gasket goes on top or under the pump diapharm, can not tell you how many carbs I have had to pull back off to switch them. Another place to check is the plastic spacer between the carb and flange for cracks, that spacer should also have a gasket on each side.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 30, 2011)

I've got the spacer, it isn't cracked and has itself appropriately sandwiched between 2 gaskets. I skimmed around the gasket/carb body interface with a razor blade to make sure when I pulled it free, I wouldn't bend the inlet needle lever. Since it isn't feeding gas, I don't know whether to pull it and bend the lever down some, or bend it up some just to see if it makes a diff. 
Maybe I'll pull it and bend it up some. On that side of the carb, I call it the pump side, the gasket goes against the carb body first, then the diaphragm goes on, then the cover goes on. I'm sure of that part. It's the opposite sequence on the other side of the carb.

Isn't it?????

I don't think I can pull this apart again this weekend, it's *let it sit time*. I am in the market for a new tank though for this saw--meaning left and right case halves for it. I'm watching ebay for that.

On another note though, on my other Roper non-runner, I replaced the pump side D and G with the old one I pulled out of my Dad's saw, cleaned it out briefly, then thrdew it on the .XXX770 and the bugger ran great........I do have a proper full rebuild kit coming for that saw, but I did get a little success on the Roper side of the pile today, just not my .XXX750 I really want to hear run great again.

That XXX770 is waiting its turn for a new pair of crank seals, carb stuff and then toss chips.


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## Eccentric (Oct 30, 2011)

Opihi59 said:


> I've got the spacer, it isn't cracked and has itself appropriately sandwiched between 2 gaskets. I skimmed around the gasket/carb body interface with a razor blade to make sure when I pulled it free, I wouldn't bend the inlet needle lever. Since it isn't feeding gas, I don't know whether to pull it and bend the lever down some, or bend it up some just to see if it makes a diff.
> Maybe I'll pull it and bend it up some. On that side of the carb, I call it the pump side, the gasket goes against the carb body first, then the diaphragm goes on, then the cover goes on. I'm sure of that part. It's the opposite sequence on the other side of the carb.
> 
> Isn't it?????
> ...



The side of the carb with the metering lever is called the metering side. You're correct in that the gasket goes on first, then the diaphragm. When making adjustments to the lever, DO NOT pull the lever so it mashes the needle against the seat (I've seen it happen). You can damage the needle and/or seat, and this will make it flood and run crappy. I find it interesting that Tillotson tells you to just pry against the lever to adjust it. Not the best practice in my experience....

To adjust (bend) the lever, the best (meaning safest and most accurate in my opinion) way is to remove the pivit pin and lever and bend it when it's NOT in the carb. Trial and error. It's a bit of a PITA, but it's worth the trouble. Also, adjusting the lever so it sits higher (farther away from the carb body) when the needle is seated will make the saw run richer. Adjusting the lever so it sits lower will make the saw run leaner.

The other side of the carb (with the 'flapper valves') is the pump side. The diaphragm goes on the carb body first, then the gasket, then the cover.

*Edit:*

Have you downloaded and read the Tillotson service info? If not, click the links below and have at it. On some HS carbs, the metering lever has forks on BOTH ends. One end fits around the end of the needle, and the other fits into a groove on the 'tit' in the center of the metering diaphragm. The side of the metering diaphragm with the 'plate' on it goes towards the carb body by the way. On other HS carbs, there is only a fork on the end that attaches to the needle, while the other end just rests against the metering diaphragm 'tit'. If you have the 2-fork type lever, be sure you fit the end of the lever into that groove on the diaphragm 'tit'. I just like typing that I guess....

http://www.tillotson.ie/docs/techinfo_HS_US.pdf

http://www.tillotson.ie/docs/HSPartsList.pdf

http://www.tillotson.ie/techinfo-downloads.php


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## Opihi59 (Oct 30, 2011)

*Thanks Eccentric*

I had found the Tillotson site and read thru their color schematics which actually taught me a lot. What I can't seem to remember without continually referencing the site is the proper nomenclature all the time. They have a ton of information on there that has been useful, as well as which diaphragm and gasket kit goes to which carb(s). 

I am going to go back thru that site, as well as make sure I take the time to pore thru the links you posted up for my benefit, but I have just got to set this saw aside for next weekend to roll around. Numerous people here on this site have made very generous efforts in helping me by making entries into this thread, as well as sending me parts from their personal collections. I am certain I can get this thing going, also quite certain that there are people on this forum who could have this saw screaming in about 20 minutes. I just gotta let it sit until next weekend and dig into it again.

On this carb model, the diaphragm does have a nipple on it that slots into the forked end of the metering lever. I was extremely careful in separating the gasket/diaphragm from the carb body with a razor blade to make certain that if it did have this type configuration, I wouldn't bend the metering lever by peeling off the diaphragm blindly and damaging that lever. Turned out I was grateful for that caution, and I slipped it out without damage--at least as best as I can tell. I did pull the lever/"axle"/spring/needle combo, cleaned out that orifice, checked the needle tip which showed no evidence of damage or wear, and put that back together before the new D/G went on.

So my plan will be to pull all that apart again next weekend and start adjusting that metering lever by bending it OUT sequentially in tiny increments. This is an easy task even though it is down in the air box and tedious to remove/replace the carb unit, but I want a fresh start.
I have to discover where the pulse orifice is that drives this thing and make sure it's not covered as well. Back when I joined this forum, I had only been inside a lawnmower carb a few times, and what I have learned so far from AS has put me many orders of magnitude beyond that. Thanks guys, for all your help in teaching me.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 30, 2011)

*It runs...............*

The more I passed by my makeshift saw workbench, to mess with the Jeep, the worse I felt about that Saw languishing out there.







After a bit I was starting to twitch, and wasn't concentrating on other things I was working on, so went back to the saw. Do I have a problem here?? Anyway, it runs now. The problem indeed was the impulse "circuit" but not inside the carb. I had made a cork gasket to replace a decomposed original cork gasket, and had not understood the function of the impulse, and didn't make a hole for it. So, here are some photos.

This is the carb I am putting in, the HS 79A, you can see the pipe cleaner thru the impulse hole. Beside it is the original carb with the hole in the same place, just for comparison. And another shot of the same, just closer.











Carb spacer next with the pipe cleaner in the impulse hole.






Air box of the saw, leading into the intake/reed valve system, with the pipe cleaner guess where???






And this is on the back side of the air box at the cork gasket between the airbox and the reed valve system thingey. I suppose you notice that you don't see the pipe cleaner coming thru anywhere.................






And of course here is the impulse hole in the top of the reed valve assembly.






So of course I made a new cork gasket and put a hole there in the right spot, and put it all back together. It runs. I tried to tune it up some, but it doesn't seem to run real powerfully at high RPM, seems to cut out some. I'm not sure about how much power it is producing, won't know that until I put the bar/chain back on it and throw chips. Maybe next weekend instead of working on getting it to run, now I can take the pile out and see how they perform on chopping up all those Haw'n Ironwoods I felled. I hope to cut them into firewood sized chunks so I can split later for Camp fires up there.

Going to a new page, as I don't want to hit the photo limiter.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 31, 2011)

So here it is as it now sits, and waits for me to do the next thing to it.











It's a pretty sleek saw for a 3.7, I really like this series and will likely be looking for at least another of this line.

So since I am such a bonehead and didn't know to make a hole for the impulse in the gasket I made, I at least have to share a small trick I use on just about all engines I work on. It is difficult sometimes to get spark plugs to go into the right hole, and frequently the only thing you can barely grab is the tip. You don't really want to try starting the threads in with a socket, as you can't feel if you're cross threading, so I get a length of rubber hose of the appropriate size, mount the sparkplug in that........






And screw it in that way and run it up "finger tight" before putting a socket on it.






So the truth of the matter is I was unable to put aside the project, even though I was frustrated with it from yesterday, I just couldn't put it down. All my neighbors of course knew right away of my success, so I figure you deserve to as well. I feel considerably better, and feel I can work on tuning a running saw, but I can't really do diddly with a non runner. I don't have a problem here, I can quit any time I want.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 31, 2011)

*Koi pond*

At any rate, bouyed somewhat by my small triumph over despair, I worked on the Koi pond some, cleaned 3 of the 5 filter systems on it, and here are some totally OFF TOPIC photos of them. I have to take some more as they line up when I feed them like pigs at a trough and breach themselves half-way out of the water doing it. My boys (25, 18, 16) knew I wanted a koi pond, so during one of my 4 tours in Iraq they set one up for me, dug out 8 tons of soil, put in filter system adequate for a family sized swimming pool ($5K), put in some small Koi and now 3 yrs later they are real big. Almost 5 feet deep, I've gone snorkeling in it before to work on the bottom drain when stuff got stuck in it. Pond has a waterfall, etc.


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## Eccentric (Oct 31, 2011)

Looks fantastic. It's your thread, put whatever pics you want in it!


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 31, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> *Check carefully the impulse passage from the crankcase to the carb.. *Flange gaskets that come with generic repair kits are sometimes off on the hole for the passage.
> 
> I had something similar with my first Rem. 75A. The impulse hole was off by an hour (clockwise) or two.



Sigh, you insist on making the same newbie mistakes that I (and many others) have made.

I have to admit I didn't have hardly a clue how a diaphram carb. worked in the beginning.

B.T.W. My S.I.L. (aka Dumbo) has acquired a Jeep. 

I shudder when my grandchildren have to ride in it.

Wifey has a tiny goldfish pond in our back yard but so far the ones from the bait shop don't last very long between the heat of summer and the raccoons.


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## Chris J. (Oct 31, 2011)

Great Koi pond! We had a friend would kill (probably literally) to have that pond. 

Perhaps I'm nitpicky and/or FOS, but I wouldn't use a pipe cleaner in a carb, the pipe cleaner might 'shed' in the carb.


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## Opihi59 (Oct 31, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> Sigh, you insist on making the same newbie mistakes that I (and many others) have made.
> 
> I have to admit I didn't have hardly a clue how a diaphram carb. worked in the beginning.
> 
> ...



Yup, and the reason I felt compelled to check the impulse circuit was that you had mentioned it, and all I could think was "Huh?" So figured I'd better learn more about that since I was really convinced the problem wasn't the way I put in the D/G kit. Judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. I think I'm learning, and hopefully can pass stuff along to 
AS. I post up my successes, as well as my numerous failures and the thinking process involved, so hope that it's helpful to someone. I depend on input from experienced sages and mentors such as yourself to get this thing going right.

I wouldn't worry too much about Jeeps. The YJ and TJ series are just about 6" wider stance than the CJ line, so unless it's a hyper modified Jeep, tipping over won't be an issue. Remember that these Jeeps have full frames, and a built in roll bar. There aren't too many vehicles as sturdy as that on the road nowadays. I've pulled my YJ apart down to the basics, rebuilt everything and put it back together and really like it. I feel fine when my boys are driving either it or the TJ Rubicon. Great visibility, etc. However you need to know how to work on stuff if you own an older Jeep. Tons of stuff to fix. *J*ust *E*xpect *E*very *P*roblem. Jeepforum.com is a really helpful place, full of mature knowledgeable and experienced members just like AS.


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## Roanoker494 (Oct 31, 2011)

Glad to hear you got that saw going and the carb worked out for ya. Good job on the saw and it is looking great.


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## Opihi59 (Nov 5, 2011)

*Drive sprockets*

The drive sprockets I ran down arrived, it had been cost-prohibitive to have them mailed out to me directly from the source, but I had them sent to my sister in KY, who then put them in a small USPS envelope and shuttled them on to me. Resultant cost savings of over 60% from what they wanted to mail direct to me via Brown Santa, and that was the only way they'd send it. So the new one is hubbed onto my finger, with the old one at the finger tip. They are identical part numbers, but you can see that the thicker spacer bosses present on the old one are not on the new one.
















Once I get this saw tuned up a bit to the point I am ready to reinstall the bar/chain, I'll see how much play there is between the case and the back of the clutch assembly and decide if I need to place a pair of soft spacer washers to limit the back and forth play, like maybe brass ones, or if I should put some non hardened steel spacer washers on there and just spot-weld them with the Mig to the spacer. I know a certain amount of play is there to allow for centering the drive sprocket with the bar/chain, but that seems like it would be way too much play in the new one as compared to the old one, and that is without doing a trial assembly. I may feel it is fine but won't know til I get back into the build. I can't do anything else on this project this weekend as I am awaiting parts to arrive on the slow boat.

The original one though sure was badly worn.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 5, 2011)

No spacers needed on that rim sprocket. The large amount of endplay won't harm anything.

What you do need is a large diameter (fender) washer on the crankshaft against the sprocket (rim or spur) to keep the chain from jaming against the crankcase should it get too loose and jump ship.

Another *J.E.E.P.*..................... Just Empty Every Pocket!


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## Opihi59 (Nov 20, 2011)

*Runner!!!!*

So I used the saw this weekend, had to stump out a few from the previous felling and clearing Boy Scout Project at Camp Hawkins. It ran fine, pulled the 18" bar/chain combo very well, and threw a ton of chips. Oiler works well, recall this is the manual one you squoosh out the lube with your thumb.
So of course now is the time to thank all the contributors via parts and advice that came my way, shout out to all of you experts who helped make this happen. My well-into-his-80's father who bought this new back in the 70's can get to hear it run again when he makes a trip to the islands in May '12 if he comes with the rest of the family.

I am sure I'll add in more stuff as I find other photos, and I'm actually looking for at least another Roper 3.7 of this ilk, they pop up on ebay from time to time as runners or carcasses and it'd be nice to have another one to re-do.

Note to self--update your sig line as there are *THREE* runners now.

Cheers!!


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## OldRoper (Jan 2, 2012)

*A sight for sore eyes.*

Happy 2012 to you in the warm country!

I must say my eyes lit up when I saw your 917.353750 fuel tank in 2 pieces.
My SN 49017 (origional owner) tank has been weeping from the bottom seam for more than a few years now but now with the price of fuel it and I are both crying.

I was about to go down the path of sealing the inside with a tank sealer product until it saw this post. Now I'm thinking of separating the halves and using the YAMABOND 6B, but on close observation it almost looks like the seam is welded!! Did you have much trouble separating the halves after all the mechanical connections were removed?

Your detailed tear down data is just what I needed to point me in this direction. Thanks for your great contribution.

This saw still runs like a charm after 40ish years except for its current fuel consumption.






Opihi59 said:


> Tank case halves cleaned up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Opihi59 (Jan 4, 2012)

OldRoper said:


> Happy 2012 to you in the warm country!
> 
> I must say my eyes lit up when I saw your 917.353750 fuel tank in 2 pieces.
> My SN 49017 (origional owner) tank has been weeping from the bottom seam for more than a few years now but now with the price of fuel it and I are both crying.
> ...




Lots of info sent in PM, but I had said those case screws were Phillips head, not so--they are slotted but I'm sure you already saw that. Let me know how the rebuild goes. While you have it down, you could consider replacing rings and the crank seals, but if it still has good compression, just run with what you got and fix the tank. You don't have to break down the motor per Se to get it out of the saw, you can just do the case halfs and put it all back together. 

Roper/first post rep coming your way.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 5, 2012)

*'Nother one*

Today USPS dropped off another Roper 3.7 on my doorstep. I now have another project saw to tear into and rebuild and am looking forward to this process since it is another saw of this same product line and now I am an "expert." (Ha, I'm only kidding myself) I need to locate some parts for it so will be cruising feebay etc. These are really nice saws.

On another note, it is *really getting ****** cold *out here. It was only about 60 this AM for my drive in to work in my doorless/sideless/topless Jeep, I musta had serious snotsicles hanging off my nose by the time I pulled into the parking lot. Only got up to 82 this afternoon as well. I may have to wear shoes now, maybe long pants too for a while. Perhaps something is just wrong with my heater in that Jeep. I'm going to have to go hang out at the beach at Waimea or Waikiki this weekend to recover.


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## Roanoker494 (Jan 5, 2012)

Opihi59 said:


> Today USPS dropped off another Roper 3.7 on my doorstep. I now have another project saw to tear into and rebuild and am looking forward to this process since it is another saw of this same product line and now I am an "expert." (Ha, I'm only kidding myself) I need to locate some parts for it so will be cruising feebay etc. These are really nice saws.
> 
> On another note, it is *really getting ****** cold *out here. It was only about 60 this AM for my drive in to work in my doorless/sideless/topless Jeep, I musta had serious snotsicles hanging off my nose by the time I pulled into the parking lot. Only got up to 82 this afternoon as well. I may have to wear shoes now, maybe long pants too for a while. Perhaps something is just wrong with my heater in that Jeep. I'm going to have to go hang out at the beach at Waimea or Waikiki this weekend to recover.



Glad to hear you found another project, I have a really nice blue 3.7A powersharp laying here myself. 

By the way...... YOU SUCK!!! It has been in the 20's here this past week, though today it did get back up into the high 50's.


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## Mo. Jim (Jan 5, 2012)

OldRoper said:


> Happy 2012 to you in the warm country!
> 
> I must say my eyes lit up when I saw your 917.353750 fuel tank in 2 pieces.
> My SN 49017 (origional owner) tank has been weeping from the bottom seam for more than a few years now but now with the price of fuel it and I are both crying.
> ...



Rep for the new guy.welcome aboard


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 5, 2012)

Roanoker494 said:


> By the way...... YOU SUCK!!! It has been in the 20's here this past week, though today it did get back up into the high 50's.



Ditto................................ Although, it got to 65 here today, broke a record.

I have a nice 3.7" here with killer compression. Kills my wrist. If you really like 'em, we'll trade for that Husky. You can even put the comp. release valve back in. (it fit my Poulan 655)

R.O.F.L. (smileys not working again)


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## Opihi59 (Jan 6, 2012)

I really like that Husky, it is a nice saw. I could part with the newer Roper 3.7 that I got as a parts saw but rebuilt since it was such a good runner. (917.353770) It just doesnt have that slim profile this XXX750 has and seems clunky to me. I still need to find a Stihl to make me feel all grown up though. I have more wood cutting to do either this wknd or next to get together a truckload of firewood all split for another Scout campout. Planny of running saws now in the pile to accomplish that task.

The Dragon Lady carried the box in the house, looked at me and said "this isn't another saw is it?" She really can't complain as I put a new Grundfos pump and a differential temperature thermostat and thermistors on our solar water heater system/replumbed the circuit last weekend so now we have hot water "off the grid" again. Anything new looking or shiny I put in last week, then put black foam insulation on it.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 9, 2012)

I just got another Roper in the mail, craftsman 917.353762 which is identical to the .XXX750 featured in this thread, only noticeable difference is that it has the "save your knuckles" kickback protecter shield mounted on the wrap hangle. This one was an ebay saw and needs the clutch cover. One of the bar studs was bent, and the ends of the threads were boogered up by someone forcing a pair of 8mm X 1.25 pitch bar nuts on when the proper size is 5/16 24TPI. I managed to straighten the bend without cracking my case half, and re threaded the studs. This saw has outstanding compression, the piston looks great and the cylinder is literally perfect. The fuel line had rotted off inside the tank but it ran with fuel down the carb very easily. I've already separated the case halfs and put it back together with new fuel line, did the usual tear down to clean and inspect everything and I couldn't find anything worth replacing. Will switch to a dual adjustable carb so no plans on rebuilding the current carb. When I get the photos downloaded I'll post some up but it really is the same saw for all intents and purposes to the original star of this thread.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 15, 2012)

So here's the latest, I tore down the "new" 3.7 and went thru it. I split the case halfs (tank) and put them back together, re-assembled the saw and the tank leaked. Saw did run though and I was going to work on that further but the tank was leaking. I haven't had problems in the past sealing case halfs, or any of the various applications on my Jeeps where there are no gaskets but RTV silicone is used instead. I took the tank apart, re sealed it and let it sit but tested it with raw gas this time. It leaked significantly. I went around the seam but found the seam wasn't leaking. There was an unnoticed crack at the base of the channel where the bar adjuster block runs. This saw had taken some sorta impact here, I had found that the front bar stud was bent back some, etc but had straightened and re-threaded that. In the second photo below, you can see the stud bent backwards a bit, this is pre-repair. So here are a few photos of course of the latest saw/challenge.











Next few may seem nebulous, but this is the channel that the bar adjuster runs on, just below the bar studs. I have a pointer on the beginning of the crack and it runs about half an inch to the right from there.
















You will notice you can see the impression of the square bar adjuster slide in there, and I feel there is a similar matching crack opposite this one that I can't demonstrate very well. The dilemma of course is the best option for fixing this crack as it obviously took some sorta whack here. First off, I plan on letting it dry and blowing out the cracks with air, then "caulking" it with some of that Yamabond and working it into the crack with my finger. The sliding block that rides in the channel could rub this seal away though, so I can grind some clearance off the back of the adjuster block, and of course the block rides back and forth on the adjuster screw and not against the back of the channel per se. I could also cut a thin metal shim and lay in the base of the channel on top of the yamabond to prevent wear against the silicone as well. More I think of it it seems to be a reasonable idea. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd be happy to hear them. Either that of someone with a buncha spare case halfs laying around.

By the way, the repair I did on the damaged case of the first saw featured in this thread is doing fine. I gummed on a dab of Yamabond, let it cure, then shaved it down a bit.


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## OldRoper (Jan 15, 2012)

Wow!!

Someone must have run this poor thing over. The compression has mine beat by 30psi. Coincidently, I just completed resealing mine using a tank epoxy from caswellplating.com
(GTS1750 for $40), and for the first time in about 10 years, the tank does not leak.

If you chose to go this route it may be a problem since it cannot be air shipped. I received mine in 2 days.

After fishing out the fuel line, removing the filter & pickup ass. and plugging line with a screw:

The prep was a tank flush with ACETONE, a wash with hot soapy water, dry, coat with the mixed 2 part epoxy, remove excess, and cure for 36 hrs at 80f or above. The stuff dries clear and is hard like a rock. There is no apparent reaction with the original coating in the tank.

The beast cranked right up and ran fine, and has not lost a drop of fuel in 2 days.


----------



## Opihi59 (Jan 16, 2012)

I will hold off a bit on doing a repair, whatever method I go with I will likely plug the various tank vent holes/fuel line holes and pull a vacuum thru the fill-port while I apply the gunk of choice to the outside of the tank so it will pull whatever thru the crack rather than just laying on top of it so to speak. It's not anything I need to be in a rush to repair, it's just got to work with the first option I go with. 
I can always separate the tank halfs again to get to a repair site on the inside of the tank, but it would have to be something that will tolerate constant soaking in gas. Not real keen on spending $40 for what you used then whatever boat trip it requires to get out here--that's my equivalent of "ground" shipping.

Glad you got your tank leak issue solved.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 23, 2012)

Didn't come up with another plan, so went ahead with my Yamabond idea. I cut a piece out of an aluminum can. Seems these type drinks have a heavier gauge aluminum than your standard can. This one was 0.020" thick.






Cut to fit in the bottom of the channel for the bar adjuster block.






I put a gob of Yamabond in there, worked it into whatever cracks, then sucked a vacuum on the fuel fill port while plugging off vent hole, fuel line, etc, then after a few mins of that put the shim in there and smoothed it out.






Since the shim took away from the depth of the channel, I ground approx 0.022 thickness off the block, then beveled the sides so it doesn't act as a gouge and chew out the yamabond in the edges of the channel. That's the block in my grubby black Yamabonded fingers.






I will let that cure a few days before I test it with raw gas. Raw, that way if it leaks I don't have to struggle getting oil out of the crack to do another bond technique. Will let you know how this works after I test it out. It seems good in theory, but then again, I've messed up things that made real good sense more than once in my life.


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## Roanoker494 (Jan 23, 2012)

Looking good there. Did you get that other Roper you messaged me about? I tired to reply but it told me your box was full.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 23, 2012)

Roanoker494 said:


> Looking good there. Did you get that other Roper you messaged me about? I tired to reply but it told me your box was full.



Yes, I did get it. It's on the slow boat so I'll likely have it in my hands in about 3 more weeks. I plan to use it as a parts saw only, so that means I should have some parts to share around from it. I am sorry that my mail box was full, I need to go thru it As Soon As Possible and knock out some space there. Seems the mailboxes fill up real fast, and the only way I know is someone tells me.


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 23, 2012)

Opihi59 said:


> Yes, I did get it. It's on the slow boat so I'll likely have it in my hands in about 3 more weeks. I plan to use it as a parts saw only, so that means I should have some parts to share around from it. I am sorry that my mail box was full, I need to go thru it As Soon As Possible and knock out some space there. Seems the mailboxes fill up real fast, and the only way I know is someone tells me.



Ha! The yellow one missing air filter cover and broken oil tank?

You outbid me by fifty cents. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130631462775?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT


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## Opihi59 (Jan 23, 2012)

*Nope, not me*



67L36Driver said:


> Ha! The yellow one missing air filter cover and broken oil tank?
> 
> You outbid me by fifty cents.




No, I didn't bid on that one. It was a Red Roper Craftsman without a starter/starter cover, bar/chain or an air filter cover. I'll make sure though that if I am looking at one I am interested in, I'll also make sure that either you or Roanoker are not bidding as well. It makes no sense for me to compete against colleagues when we make a practice of sharing parts from the spoils.

It was this one: eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


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## Opihi59 (Jan 25, 2012)

*Runner!!*

That latest saw is running, and real nice too. I swapped carbs on it since the pulse feed didn't seem to be good on the other (bad D/G kit) so I will rebuild the Hi/Lo tunable Tilly carb I have for it and toss that on next. Parts saw inbound on the slow boat for some missing pieces. For now, I have to cut back on saw purchases since I just packed my roof with photovoltaic panels. I am now a power company, and my meter is spinning backwards. Woo Hoo!!


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## ChainsawmanXX (Jan 26, 2012)

Opihi59 said:


> .



One of the saws I was most surprised by.. Its a blast to run!


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## Roanoker494 (Jan 26, 2012)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> One of the saws I was most surprised by.. Its a blast to run!



You are not alone, many have been shocked by these little saws abilities. Very nice power to weight ratio to be a old cheap saw.


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## kfranko (Feb 11, 2012)

*Craftsman 917.353770*

Have this old chain saw. Has sentimental value for me being dad's..
Can I ask for help and advise....The carb needs replacement, and I am thinking is there a carb
out there that would fit into this saw BUT that it has both H and L adj. screws. The old carb.,
and there is one of its flaws, only has the idle adj. screw and Low speed mixture screw.
Maybe there is a newere model carb with both adj screws that would fit.
If not, any info as to where a repairs parts kit and gasket kit can be found.
thanks a mil.


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## Opihi59 (Feb 11, 2012)

*Your 917.353770*

I have a very nice running one of those, it is also a Roper 3.7 but is a newer model than the .XXX750 featured in this thread. It's a good saw, and since it has sentimental value to you it's worth whatever effort you put in it. I prefer the 750 style in the Ropers since they seem more compact, less wide/bulky, but that's just my personal bias.


























They are very easy to tear down and work on, they also have plastic gas and oil reservoirs, they use the same motor as the 750 with the same crank seals, same piston/rings. I also considered putting a dual adjustable carb on mine, it comes with a Tillotson carb and an RK 23HS rebuild kit will work for it.
A dual adjustable carb like a Tillotson HS79A would be a carb you could use with this feature, however take the top off your saw--the mechanism of the trigger and configuration of the box would not allow a space for the adjustment screw for the high mix screw. Remember I have one of these saws, I also thought about upgrading exactly like you, but with the parts in hand and the saw on my bench I saw it would not be a beneficial process. That doesn't mean it cannot be done. Look at your saw, find the low speed mix adjustment, then look for the dimple about 1/2" rearwards on the carb body--that's where the High speed mix adjustment would go. You would have to cut off the "screw" so it would clearance the shaft/lever assembly (trigger wire hooks to that) and cut in a new screwdiver slot. To access this for adjustment though, the trigger lock is right in the way, you would need to drill a hole thru the side of the airbox where you could reach this screw to turn it, and come up with a plug to then cover the hole in the airbox so you don't suck debris into your carb thru it. So go back up to the first photo, look at the location of the low speed adjustment screw, and you can see the trigger lock and idle adjustment screw is practically right where the high speed adjustment screw would come, if you did shorten the high speed screw so it would fit behind the trigger lever, and you'd have to have the saw running almost wide open for that to rotate out of the way while you try to come in sideways to try to adjust the screw. Yes, can be done. Is it worth it? Only you will know for sure. I didn't bother to modify mine because of this awkward arrangement in the trigger/trigger lock mechanism. I just put in carb rebuild kit, new rings, new crank seals, sparkplug, gas and oil and ran the you know what out of it. Good luck, and welcome to the forum.


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## Opihi59 (Feb 11, 2012)

*More on your Roper .XXX770*

Your saw will tear down real easy for clean up, just a few "exploded" shots.



























This should be the carb you're running, honestly I'd just rebuild it and run it like you stole it. If/When Roanoker drops in on this thread and renders advice/opinion, I'd go with what he says. I always do. These experts know what they are talking about!


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## Opihi59 (Feb 11, 2012)

*OOPS!! Sorry forgot the carb photo, duh.*


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## kfranko (Feb 11, 2012)

Opihi59 said:


>



Thanks guys...you sound like real experts. Glad to see that there are other fans of these saws. Any info as to where I can find thr carb rebuild kit, new rings and new crank seals.


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## RBurtcher (Feb 11, 2012)

Good to see another Roper thread. How I missed it I'm not sure. Rebuilding my Dads roper is what brought me to this sight in the first place.

Opihi59, Nice detailed pics and some good coaching from Roanoker494 and 67L36Driver. 

I have 2 1/2 of the Non AV versions. One is solid state ign. xx750 and the other points xx760. The 1/2 are leftover parts from my dads that suffered white death in the gas tank which ate holes through it and a parts saw. 

Opihi59, Thanks for posting the seals part #'s and the exp. on the rings. 

67L36Driver, Does the pin in the ring lands from the XL100 series line up in the proper place on the roper to avoid snagging a ring? 

On the compression release deal, My original (dads) suffered clearance issues due to heat and wear from vibration. The lever also tends to crack as shown on the comparison pics Opihi59 posted.

On another note. the fixed jet carbs on these are sensitive to having high pressure air blown through them as there is a checkvalve in the mainjet that can get messed up or come out. The points version xx760 had the hi/low adjustable carb when I recieved it and honestly after tuning there was not alot of improvement in the cut. I thought I read someplace they are just a richening device to stop over reving. sort of like a governor.

As noted in other threads, The original chain for the auto sharp option was called Baraccuda which can be found for nostalgia puposes but doesn't really work as well as normal chain. 

Some good info in this thread. 

R.B.


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## 67L36Driver (Feb 11, 2012)

Nothing to do with XL-100 rings.???

Roper bore is 1 13/16" IIRC and you can use the nearest metric bore size x 1.5mm thick from 'The Greek'. Rings will have a tad more groove clearence than ideal but it works.

You will need a 1/16" dia. swiss pattern file to notch the ring end gap.

Strange but true:
I bought four rings for my Roper and Pioneer 1200. Ring installation was uneventfull on the Roper. On the Pioneer I broke both. Aargh! 

As a last ditch I put the used rings from the Roper in the Pioneer.

Compression in the Pioneer went from 110psi to 145psi. Go figure.


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## kfranko (Feb 14, 2012)

*Craftsman 917.353770*

for us novices, can anyone help with info as to where can one find parts for rebuilding the carb, rings and other motor parts needed to
get it in shape. also what is the exact cc spec for this 3.7 engine, should be about 60??
anyone has an older one to sell for parts??
thanks


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## Roanoker494 (Feb 14, 2012)

kfranko said:


> for us novices, can anyone help with info as to where can one find parts for rebuilding the carb, rings and other motor parts needed to
> get it in shape. also what is the exact cc spec for this 3.7 engine, should be about 60??
> anyone has an older one to sell for parts??
> thanks



The carb is a Tilly HS and the kit is available from any small engine shop, Ebay and many of the site sponsors. For rings you will have to find something close and file the gap to fit, the Roper's have a odd ball size bore and I don't know of any exact fit rings. Somewhere in this thread Opihi59 actually tells what rings he used, you will have to do a little "leg work" to find the info. A few new engine parts show up on Ebay from time to time but you are pretty well going to be limited to used parts from a site sponsor like Chainsawr.com or on Ebay.

As you can see on this Roper branded saw they were designated as 61cc from the manufacturer, I believe most all the Sears/Craftsman versions were only marked as 3.7.


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## kfranko (Feb 14, 2012)

*Tillotson HS*

The tillotson HS had a Idle mixture screw *and* High Speed mixture screw...
my carb *only* has the Low speed mixture screw and Idle speed regulating screw which only lifts or lowers the throttle level.
Must be another carburatator in there _??


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## kfranko (Feb 14, 2012)

*Craftsman 3.7 chain saw*

On closer examination of saw, I found a barely visible sticker on the bottom of saw that shows it is a 917.353771 model saw...
would that change specs of carburator....definitely it is not a Tillotson HS. Founbd the carbs service manual and it shows it has two
mixture adj screws, idle and high, which mine does not. Wish it did. Look at Tillotson home web site.
thanks.


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## Opihi59 (Feb 14, 2012)

kfranko said:


> On closer examination of saw, I found a barely visible sticker on the bottom of saw that shows it is a 917.353771 model saw...
> would that change specs of carburator....definitely it is not a Tillotson HS. Founbd the carbs service manual and it shows it has two
> mixture adj screws, idle and high, which mine does not. Wish it did. Look at Tillotson home web site.
> thanks.



HS series carbs for the 3.7 came both versions low mix adjustable only, and high/low mix adjustable. Pull off your carb and look it over after cleaning it well. You can see the ID stamp on the one I posted above for my .XXX770, the "H" slipped off the side of the carb when stamped. Pictures help. Post up some of your saw/carb and the experts will help you. The 770/771 are very similar saws, I don't know what the difference might be but they are pretty much the same saw.


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## Roanoker494 (Feb 14, 2012)

Opihi59 said:


> HS series carbs for the 3.7 came both versions low mix adjustable only, and high/low mix adjustable. Pull off your carb and look it over after cleaning it well. You can see the ID stamp on the one I posted above for my .XXX770, the "H" slipped off the side of the carb when stamped. Pictures help. Post up some of your saw/carb and the experts will help you. The 770/771 are very similar saws, I don't know what the difference might be but they are pretty much the same saw.



:agree2:

Yep...... What he said

I have three of those newer style saws here myself. One has both adjustment screws, two have only the one adjustment but all three have a Tilly HS. The HS is just the series of carb and it is the numbers/letters that follow that tells the particulars of the carb. There is a HS parts list, not the service manual, on the Tillotson website that lists all the different variations and the associated parts for each.


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## timberdollars (Feb 26, 2012)

*Roper*

Hi all, I have one these Craftsman "High Performance" model roper 3.7's. I tried selling it on ebay for parts but No luck. Its got a great bore, cylinder etc. I was mine back in 1990 then gave to my uncle. Well he gave it back never used but sittin around.
Has a cracked clutch shoe and missing/broke off case to tank mounting bolts behind clutch. (four tapered screws)

Has a fully adjustable SDC carb on it!!! thinkin about keeping it.

Its up for ?????????????????????? complete including filter, think sparks gone on it!!!!

Or should I restore it to operation?

Duane


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## Roanoker494 (Feb 26, 2012)

I remember seeing that one on Ebay, the missing case bolts is what caught my eye. These are great little saws but usually do not bring much unless there is something special about it, like the minty one with the custom steel Craftsman case that went fairly high.


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## timberdollars (Feb 26, 2012)

*ropers*



Roanoker494 said:


> I remember seeing that one on Ebay, the missing case bolts is what caught my eye. These are great little saws but usually do not bring much unless there is something special about it, like the minty one with the custom steel Craftsman case that went fairly high.



yeh I know, I tried selling it for $30.00 and after fees my take would have been $25.00'ish, shipping is what killed the deal. Oh well if someone whats it trade me outta it or after I finish my other 20 project saws I'll put it right again.

Duane


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## Roanoker494 (Feb 26, 2012)

timberdollars said:


> yeh I know, I tried selling it for $30.00 and after fees my take would have been $25.00'ish, shipping is what killed the deal. Oh well if someone whats it trade me outta it or after I finish my other 20 project saws I'll put it right again.
> 
> Duane



Shipping is becoming a ever increasing pain. The costs keep creeping up and they are closing a bunch of processing centers which is going to end up increasing shipping times, my local mail is shifting from the Roanoke VA center to one in Greensboro NC.

May want to part it out. Recoil is worth $10+ and the top cover, if it is solid, is probably worth the same with the filter.


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## Opihi59 (Feb 26, 2012)

timberdollars said:


> Hi all, I have one these Craftsman "High Performance" model roper 3.7's. I tried selling it on ebay for parts but No luck. Its got a great bore, cylinder etc. I was mine back in 1990 then gave to my uncle. Well he gave it back never used but sittin around.
> Has a cracked clutch shoe and missing/broke off case to tank mounting bolts behind clutch. (four tapered screws)
> 
> Has a fully adjustable SDC carb on it!!! thinkin about keeping it.
> ...



I think it would bring you some success if you part it out. I saw this on ebay as well, the main thing I thought was how nice the background looked in the photo you took of it balanced on--was that an open truck door? If you do want to restore it to operation, it wouldn't take a whole lot, just time and effort. But with 20 other project saws? Wow. Okay, you win.

Thanks for checking in on the thread.


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## Opihi59 (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh wait, under more scrutiny, back end of the bed rail on a pickup truck, now I have to guess the make/model of pickup. Older Chevy?


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## timberdollars (Feb 27, 2012)

*roper background*



Opihi59 said:


> Oh wait, under more scrutiny, back end of the bed rail on a pickup truck, now I have to guess the make/model of pickup. Older Chevy?



Only Fords here, lots of them.
The old Roper will just sit for now, I'll part it out when getting around to it.

Duane


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## EZRYDER (May 23, 2012)

*Has anyone got a picture of the proper oiler hole in the bar?*

Got instructions from the help thread but I would love a pic!
Larry


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## Opihi59 (May 23, 2012)

EZRYDER said:


> Got instructions from the help thread but I would love a pic!
> Larry



Unless Roanoker494 or 67L36Driver chime in with some photos, I'll try to post up some photos. Essentially what I did was to bore a hole thru the bar that matches the oiler groove on the barmount side of the case, then put one immediately below that for when the bar is flipped over. On the original saw, the oil drools down the side of the bar and is picked up by the chain on the bottom and then dragged around the bar. I have not cut side holes into the chain slot of the bar though. I have to dig out the stuff for photos, currently the bench is overwhelmed by another project(s).


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## EZRYDER (May 23, 2012)

*Thanks Opihi!*



Opihi59 said:


> Unless Roanoker494 or 67L36Driver chime in with some photos, I'll try to post up some photos. Essentially what I did was to bore a hole thru the bar that matches the oiler groove on the barmount side of the case, then put one immediately below that for when the bar is flipped over. On the original saw, the oil drools down the side of the bar and is picked up by the chain on the bottom and then dragged around the bar. I have not cut side holes into the chain slot of the bar though. I have to dig out the stuff for photos, currently the bench is overwhelmed by another project(s).



I will put the saw in front of me and try to follow what you said. Pictures would be much appreciated however!
Larry


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## EZRYDER (May 24, 2012)

*I have a new problem with my Roper. Can anyone help?*

I lent my saw to a shady contractor friend reluctantly. When I got it back, the bar and chain were charred, oil was empty, and it looks like there is something wrong with the chain sprocket but I am not sure. There is a collar around the sprocket that is now floating. It can shift from the left to the right along the length of the sprocket and I am not sure whether it was orginally secured against the clutch assembly to the left side or against the saw body to the right. Can anyone help with either words and/or a picture? If it cannot operate this way I will make him pay for the fix. If it is broken, does anyone have an available spare to sell?
Larry


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## Opihi59 (May 24, 2012)

EZRYDER said:


> I lent my saw to a shady contractor friend reluctantly. When I got it back, the bar and chain were charred, oil was empty, and it looks like there is something wrong with the chain sprocket but I am not sure. There is a collar around the sprocket that is now floating. It can shift from the left to the right along the length of the sprocket and I am not sure whether it was orginally secured against the clutch assembly to the left side or against the saw body to the right. Can anyone help with either words and/or a picture? If it cannot operate this way I will make him pay for the fix. If it is broken, does anyone have an available spare to sell?
> Larry



Sigh. The leading cause of chainsaw demise, worldwide. Lending treasured saw to someone who is totally unencumbered with knowledge or experience in operating them. If you're lucky, it wasn't straight-gassed.

In regards to the bar, this particular bar is a D176 mount, which is not the mount this saw was designed to utilize. The problem is that you can't find the original bar any longer. One of these holes I drilled, and pretty sure it would be the ROUND one. When I cut oblong holes, I gotta drill 2 then connect with a round file and dress the sides with flat. You can see the oiler slot under the round hole, this is where you want to drill. Of course, I used some cobalt bits on a drill press with cutting oil (I happen to use coconut oil as cutting oil, I grow it in my back yard so to speak). Not I have to admit, there are a number of bars I have drilled, and I am "pretty" certain this is one of them. At any rate, you know where to drill the hole, and also when you flip the bar, the adjuster pin will now go in this hole, and the slotted/oblong hole will serve as the oiler hole. Hope this helps.

*Lendeth thou not your cherished saws to ruffians, yea verily, thou shalt suffer therefrom woefully and teareth out thine hair in remorse.*

What a bummer. Send some photos of your concerns and the forum will chime in with support.


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## EZRYDER (May 24, 2012)

*Great! A little clarification please*

I see the oiler hole. I heard mention of another being drilled into the side of the bar channel so the oil gets easier to the chain, or am I confused?
Second, I am confused about the whole drive sprocket assembly. I saw pics of a new and old in the earlier pages. Does this drive sprocket actually float (or move side to side) on the splined shaft that is attached to the clutch wheel? Please forgive my inaccurate terminology. I am a rank amature at chainsaws. I am a semi-retired accountant and recently got into the hobby because I am installing a refurbished 1979 HS Tarm MB 55 Solo wood/coal boiler that I am not an amature at (installed and ran one 25 years ago for ten years). I recently acquired this Roper, a similar vintage yellow Sears Sportster which works great and a mint "shelf queen" 1981 Pioneer P26. In addition, I am operating a new 18" craftsman electric, a new 12" Remington electric and a 10" electric pole saw.


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## Opihi59 (May 24, 2012)

You're not confused. There are saws with a hole cut into the rail for oiling purposes, but I have a limited pile-O'-saws and they are all older, and do not include any of this style. Eventually someone will answer you, or you could try PM some of the more broadly experienced folks here. 

The drive sprocket does have some play on the splined shaft, some more than others. I purchased some new drive sprockets and found they were not as thick as the originals, they do slide back and forth on the splines. There are planny photos of them if you dig thru this thread a few chapters back.


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## EZRYDER (May 24, 2012)

*Thanks Opihi. One more question*



Opihi59 said:


> You're not confused. There are saws with a hole cut into the rail for oiling purposes, but I have a limited pile-O'-saws and they are all older, and do not include any of this style. Eventually someone will answer you, or you could try PM some of the more broadly experienced folks here.
> 
> The drive sprocket does have some play on the splined shaft, some more than others. I purchased some new drive sprockets and found they were not as thick as the originals, they do slide back and forth on the splines. There are planny photos of them if you dig thru this thread a few chapters back.



How can I evaluate the condition of my drive sprocket as I received the saw back in a mess as I previously described.


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## EZRYDER (May 24, 2012)

*Sorry. Another.*



Opihi59 said:


> You're not confused. There are saws with a hole cut into the rail for oiling purposes, but I have a limited pile-O'-saws and they are all older, and do not include any of this style. Eventually someone will answer you, or you could try PM some of the more broadly experienced folks here.
> 
> The drive sprocket does have some play on the splined shaft, some more than others. I purchased some new drive sprockets and found they were not as thick as the originals, they do slide back and forth on the splines. There are planny photos of them if you dig thru this thread a few chapters back.



There are two "shrouds" that go around the base of the bar and are sandwiched by the bolts that hold the bar to the body. Do I need them anymore if I am not using the sharpener? I do not even know what position to put them in; ie flaring out from the bar or in towards the bar.


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## Opihi59 (May 24, 2012)

Inside shroud angles inside, outside shroud angles outward. They aren't really necessary but could help prevent your chain from chewing into your case if it throws off of the bar. 

I don't know how to comment on your sprocket issue. Photos do help. You could pull your sprocket/clutch assy off, I have a thread in here that covers that. I don't think it's specifically in this thread though.


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## Opihi59 (May 24, 2012)

Try this thread for removing the sprocket. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/179586.htm


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## djones (May 24, 2012)

Larry, the roper I'm sending you has both bar guide plates with it and the bar is from TSC and is designed for craftsman saws and works fine on the roper. Unless you have a sprocket with a thick collar any replacement sprockets will float, this helps keep itself centered on the shaft.


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## djones (May 24, 2012)

Here is my version of a clutch removing tool for Roper/Craftman---View attachment 239305
View attachment 239306

I used the ever popular 25/32 socket and cut out the unneccessary metal leaving 3 usable prongs to pop those nasty clutches off. Just attach to a 1/2" drive breaker bar, stuff the cylinder with rope, secure and push down, an impact wrench just bounces on the rope, I don't suggest using one, don't ask how I know these things.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## EZRYDER (May 25, 2012)

*Dj- still trying to confirm you got my PM regarding $ Xfer*



djones said:


> Here is my version of a clutch removing tool for Roper/Craftman---View attachment 239305
> View attachment 239306
> 
> I used the ever popular 25/32 socket and cut out the unneccessary metal leaving 3 usable prongs to pop those nasty clutches off. Just attach to a 1/2" drive breaker bar, stuff the cylinder with rope, secure and push down, an impact wrench just bounces on the rope, I don't suggest using one, don't ask how I know these things.:hmm3grin2orange:



I sent you two PMs about sending you $ but they don't show up in my "sent items"
Larry


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## Opihi59 (May 25, 2012)

EZRYDER said:


> I sent you two PMs about sending you $ but they don't show up in my "sent items"
> Larry



Your email account is likely full. You will need to delete some old messages.


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## djones (May 25, 2012)

EZRYDER said:


> I sent you two PMs about sending you $ but they don't show up in my "sent items"
> Larry



You're OK Larry, I just need your home address and away we go. PM me your full address and I'll head to the Poat office.


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## EZRYDER (May 25, 2012)

*Thanks Opihi I am wondering*



Opihi59 said:


> Inside shroud angles inside, outside shroud angles outward. They aren't really necessary but could help prevent your chain from chewing into your case if it throws off of the bar.
> 
> I don't know how to comment on your sprocket issue. Photos do help. You could pull your sprocket/clutch assy off, I have a thread in here that covers that. I don't think it's specifically in this thread though.



I am wondering if the shrouds may be helpful in the awkward oiler "dribbling" process. BTW the oil does come out from the upper bar adjustment slot but it kind of dribbles in a meandering way down around the area where the bar is securely sandwiched between the saw body and chain compartment cover and eventually finds its way to the bottom of the bar. Is this a typical oiling process? SHEEEESSSH!
Also, I think my saw is Polish like me. I could not get the oiler to work with the flow adjustment knob in the full + position but it flows freely in the - position or half way in between?


----------



## EZRYDER (May 30, 2012)

*Got it DJ*



djones said:


> You're OK Larry, I just need your home address and away we go. PM me your full address and I'll head to the Poat office.



Got the package Tuesday but have not opened it yet.
Thanks,
Larry


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## Fun4alongtime (Jul 2, 2012)

*Craftsman/Roper 3.7A Issue*

View attachment 243807
View attachment 243808


The saw has seen very little use over the years. I have installed a new air filter and the RK-23-HS carb kit along with a new fuel line to date. The problem it has happens when full throtal or under a load the engine pulses. I don't know where to look next. I have tried adjusting the H & L screws on the carb. I thought it was an air/fuel issue but can't see changing anything else. Looking for a little help.


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## EZRYDER (Sep 27, 2012)

*I have the same one I think*



Fun4alongtime said:


> View attachment 243807
> View attachment 243808
> 
> 
> The saw has seen very little use over the years. I have installed a new air filter and the RK-23-HS carb kit along with a new fuel line to date. The problem it has happens when full throtal or under a load the engine pulses. I don't know where to look next. I have tried adjusting the H & L screws on the carb. I thought it was an air/fuel issue but can't see changing anything else. Looking for a little help.



I don't know if you fixed the problem but If you are interested in selling it, I would have fun working on it. I have four similar units and all are running fine but i did not have the problem that you are experiencing. Please PM me.
Larry


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## BigDee (Dec 23, 2012)

*917.353736*

I just discovered this slightly dated post and have been reading it with great interest. I have a 917.353736 that looks very similar. It is a strong runner and the piston and cylinder look very clean (like perfect) through the exhaust port. I am wondering if anyone knows the difference between mine and the saws being discussed here. Also, if modifying the muffler would improve performance, is it a good idea with a single screw carb? Would it run too lean?

Thanks for the help

Don


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## Opihi59 (Dec 23, 2012)

Very similar, but a "newer" version than that featured primarily in my thread. Yours likely looks like this:











It is also a Roper 3.7, has many similar or interchangeable parts, but has plastic gas tank and oil tank as opposed to my model which has tanks formed by case halves glued together. While I am able to run a carb with both hi and low adjustment, the configuration of your model does not allow this. I have one like yours and haven't figured out a way to run a different carb on it but I am happy with it the way it is. These are good saws.


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## hotshot (Dec 26, 2012)

*Tilly number*



67L36Driver said:


> That's the 'L' (low speed) jet adjustment. Turn it out 1 1/2 turns from lightly seated and you will be in the ballpark. If it bogs/dies when you pull the trigger turn it out a tad more. If it still bogs/dies when you pull the trigger start out at 1 turn from lightly seated.
> 
> Looks like you may have a fixed High speed jet on the Tilly. Is there a blind hole to the right of your 'L' needle?



Great & classic thread for the 3.7 Roper fans

Just curious with a couple of questions, but what was the original Tilly number for the carb that 
had only the low speed adjuster (fixed high)? Looks like, from reading through the posts, that 
you never did use that one.

Have the thinner metric 1.5mm thick piston rings, versus domestic 1/16" for a 0.0035" difference, 
given you any problems on high speed operation (floating)?


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## chainsawwhisperer (Dec 26, 2012)

I got this one a while ago, I replaced the lines and the carb diaphragms, and still could not got it to run right. I had the fixed H carb, and seemed to have an accelerator pump on the side of the carb. 
I had in a box of parts, The same series carb with an adj. H. So I transfered the throttle and choke shafts... 
What I did not think of was the throttle arm swings past the HHS. The full length adj. screw would hold the throttle 1/2 open. I ended up cuttling the screw in half and pressing a washer filed into a star shape onto the screw. This way you can hook it with a screwdriver and adjust it...while not the most ideal way to adjust it, it seems to work ok and better still it now runs great!

You can kind of see in the pic the throttle arm and how it obscures the HHS. I still needed to bend the arm slightly anyway to clear the screw.


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## chainsawwhisperer (Dec 26, 2012)

BTW I think the carb I used was from a 2-stroke snow blower...something with a tecumseh 2-stroke...I think??
j


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## Eccentric (Dec 26, 2012)

Pretty slick work-around there Jim.

Have you ran that S-10 yet?


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## chainsawwhisperer (Dec 26, 2012)

LOL not yet, It's sitting on the bench as we speak. I've been busy building a pinewood derby car and helping my son with his.
j


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## Eccentric (Dec 26, 2012)

chainsawwhisperer said:


> LOL not yet, It's sitting on the bench as we speak. I've been busy building a pinewood derby car and helping my son with his.
> j



That's funny. A number of months back, my saw bench was taken over pinewood derby production as well. The bench still has blue overspray on it from the experience. There's the 'shadows' of a hammer and some other tools in the paint....








For on-topic content, one of my buddies has a Craftsman/Roper 3.7 that he's giving me soon. Haven't seen it in person yet. Just in a small cellphone pic. Haven't tinkered with one of these saws since I worked at Sears in the '90s.


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## RBurtcher (Dec 26, 2012)

One of the parts saw I used to get a runner with had a HS79A on it. It is the same style carb as the original with both H/L adjustments.


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## chainsawwhisperer (Dec 26, 2012)

*post highjack*





















No more non Roper posts, I promise. j


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 26, 2012)

hotshot said:


> Great & classic thread for the 3.7 Roper fans
> 
> Just curious with a couple of questions, but what was the original Tilly number for the carb that
> had only the low speed adjuster (fixed high)? Looks like, from reading through the posts, that
> ...



I have routinely used the 1.5mm thick rings in a number of saws that originally had the 1/16". I have not noticed any difference in operation. They don't seem to develope as much compression as one would like but, it is the only game in town.

Rings notched for the 1/16" dia. locator pin will develvope great compression. .005" end gap vrs. .070", a no brainer.

I have gotten upwards of a dozen sets from "The Greek" on ebay over the past year.


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## hotshot (Dec 27, 2012)

67L36Driver said:


> I have routinely used the 1.5mm thick rings in a number of saws that originally had the 1/16". I have not noticed any difference in operation. They don't seem to develope as much compression as one would like but, it is the only game in town.
> 
> Rings notched for the 1/16" dia. locator pin will develvope great compression. .005" end gap vrs. .070", a no brainer.
> 
> I have gotten upwards of a dozen sets from "The Greek" on ebay over the past year.



Thanks for the info Carl, I understand that sometimes you "have to dance with the girl you brought". I've watched the old school 1/16" thick rings stock/availability dwindle down, and had to ask. So far have been lucky on finding them oversized & fit the ends like you stated, just using a carbide bit & Dremel to notch. Looks like the Greek has his good Caber Homelite rings stock back up to snuff if you need spares.

I'll bet that original Tilly single screw was the old HS-143B model, but maybe will hear back from Opihi59. It would be nice if Tillotson had a database posted on the 'net with HS series venturi sizes like Walbro does, you gotta call them to find out anything. 

The tip on the Tilly HS79A is welcomed too, RBurtcher!


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## Mac88 (Dec 27, 2012)

I have an older Craftsman 3.7/17 (917.353750). It has a single-screw Tilly HS-143A on it.


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## hotshot (Jan 1, 2013)

*Through hole connection*



RBurtcher said:


> One of the parts saw I used to get a runner with had a HS79A on it. It is the same style carb as the original with both H/L adjustments.



There is a side hole that's drilled into the bore on this Tillotson HS-79A Roper carb, coming out right downstream of the throttle shaft.

Anyone recognize what this hole was for? It's gonna have to be plugged up for a conventional carb swap.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 3, 2013)

I'll have to look when I get home. I think I understand what hole you're mentioning. In the view of your photo it looks like a dimple, on the side of the carb, inline with the throttle shaft with the spring. Tiny hole like 1/16 size or so. I'll check mine out when I get home.


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 3, 2013)

*Reply to Hotshot:*






Examined a Tilly HS9A that I have laying loose and the hole in bottom right is a blind hole, function unknown. Top right hole is for the implulse passage to operate fuel pump. 'Dimple' bottom left is also blind and of unknown function.

On some Walbro SDC the hole on bottom right leads to an accelerator pump if equiped. Mostly some Homelite XL-101 types.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 3, 2013)

*Wrong Hole?*

I think the hole he's asking about is the real small diameter one on the side of the carb, adjacent to the throttle shaft. You can only see it tangentially in his photo. I'm not sure though, maybe if Hotshot would put a pipe cleaner in it or something we could be certain which hole we're investigating.


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## hotshot (Jan 3, 2013)

Opihi59 said:


> I'll have to look when I get home. I think I understand what hole you're mentioning. In the view of your photo it looks like a dimple, on the side of the carb, inline with the throttle shaft with the spring. Tiny hole like 1/16 size or so. I'll check mine out when I get home.



Opihi59 & 67L36Driver,

Yes, that's it on the right carb side, just to the left of the throttle spring. It looks like a shadow 
in the picture. It measured less than 0.085" diameter & I plugged with a piece of lead shot & JB weld.

Thanks for the input guys, had never seen that before on a HS series carb.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 3, 2013)

Okay, third time now since Photobucket (insert long foul sting of your favorite expletives here) has crashed my 'puter each time so far in trying to post these (insert additional long foul sting of your favorite expletives here)

Hole in question, with pipe cleaner thru it:





















I think this represents a hole to allow a minimum required amt of air thru for initial combustion while the choke is fully closed. Sort of akin to that little hole thru the base of your automobile thermostat that lets just a bit of water thru if the open/close mechanism is frozen up. Not going to pontificate more for if this doesn't post this time my puter goes into the pond.


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 3, 2013)

Opihi59 said:


> I think this *represents a hole to allow a minimum required amt of air thru for initial combustion while the choke is fully closed*. Sort of akin to that little hole thru the base of your automobile thermostat that lets just a bit of water thru if the open/close mechanism is frozen up. Not going to pontificate more for if this doesn't post this time my puter goes into the pond.



I'll vote for that......................................................................


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## Opihi59 (Jan 17, 2013)

*Bars*

I have had a few questions about bars for this Roper. The original mount seems no longer to be available, but the oiler will still lube the chain with D176 bar which seems also hard to find. You can get a lot more versatility by going from a .325 bar/chain to a 3/8 bar/chain which is way more available now than the .325 setup. By fiddling with my sprocket from my Husqvarna which is 3/8 I found serendipitously that it will sleeve directly on the drive for my Ropers. I bought an Oregon part number 18720 sprocket, 7 spline 3/8 which looks like this:






And used this bar











And have another of my running Ropers ready to throw chips. I am sure that this process is well known to the forum, but for me, it was an independent discovery I figured I'd share. I wanted an 18" bar/chain combo, but this was just what I found first. I am sure the 3.7 will pull it though without a problem. Yes the filter/cover is off this saw as well as the bracket that holds the cover down, but I have been fiddling with the carb on this one and am swapping to a different carb soon.


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 17, 2013)

My one and only Craftsman/Roper came with a rim dive drum from the get go. Tossed the .325 and installed the .375 as I had several 'Mac' bars at the time. He has no problem pulling a 20" bar.


I have to re-visit mine and put the compression release back in so I can pull him over. Thought I was making an 'improvement' at the time.:rolleyes2:


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## Chris-PA (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm tempted by these old Craftsman/Ropers - my Dad had one when I was a teenager (one of the later, more styled ones), and I used it a fair amount. I recall it being a darn good saw!


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## Opihi59 (Jan 18, 2013)

Likely the one you're referring to that your Dad had is featured in some of my photos a few entries up. I prefer the Roper primarily featured in this thread, but they are all good saws. They are readily available on ebay, as well as parts units and I have accumulated a number of them. In this thread I have listed substitute part numbers for things like the crank seals, rings etc.
These are by no means pro-saws, but they are excellent and rugged utility saws, very durable, functional and mechanically very simple. The only thing I would suggest doing is to remove any and all parts associated with the "power sharp" device.

And yes, there are a ton of them on ebay right now.


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## Opihi59 (Jan 20, 2013)

I took one of my Ropers, identical to the one in this thread, and put the HS79 carb on it today. That carb is the dual adjustable carb, thankfully when I got this one it also had the 2-hole grommet with it. I already installed the dual adjustable carb on the orig Roper featured in this thread, but didn't have one on the saw I just converted over to the 3/8 drive and bar/chain combo. Adjusted it up and it runs fine. Since I won't likely be using this saw for a few weeks, I dumped out the gas and found all of these case-sealant worms in it.







This stuff seems to separate away from inside the tank where it is soaked with gas. The part of it that is gummed between the case halfs doesn't seem to be deteriorating, but the "drool" that sits inside the tank seems to peel off with exposure to gas over a time. None of my tanks I have sealed with this stuff have leaked though. 

This stuff:






Anyone else had this stuff strip away and turn into tank worms?


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## hotshot (Jan 20, 2013)

*Silicone sealants*



Opihi59 said:


> This stuff seems to separate away from inside the tank where it is soaked with gas. The part of it that is gummed between the case halfs doesn't seem to be deteriorating, but the "drool" that sits inside the tank seems to peel off with exposure to gas over a time. None of my tanks I have sealed with this stuff have leaked though.
> 
> 
> Anyone else had this stuff strip away and turn into tank worms?



Yes, as those silicone sealers are not very resistant to liquid gasoline or alcohol, and the excess inside will
split away. I don't care what they write on their labels/instructions, or say in their marketing blings. 
Same thing goes for Dirko (silicone), which is recommended for Stihl's clamshell types. They seem to hold up OK for
gas vapors & oils, but the real plus is that they are heat resistant. I'll probably get flamed for this, but the
Hylomar Universal Blue is the best I've found for gas tank seams that don't use a gasket.

What allows them work is that the sealer is trapped or captured between two flat pieces of materal that are
resistant to gas. Homelite also used silicone sealers, like the Permatex Ultra Black, in their small clamshells
and I've taken apart probably 40 to 50 without ever finding a sealing problem (when applied correctly). If the
surface is oily or you use too much, then the bead that was squeezed out on the inside makes a quick trip to the
muffler screen! Your tank should be sealed up fine, if you don't try to pull out a piece from the inside. Make sure
your gas tank vent is free to flow both ways, if you can, as you have some wicked sunrays on the island that can
build up a lot of vapor pressure in the tank.

You could always throw a handful of 1/4" washers in the tank with some gas, and slosh it around if you wan't to
get the remainder out.


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## Mac88 (Jan 22, 2013)

There's a couple of those 3.7's on the St. Louis CL. Seller's asking $140 for the pair. New b/c on one of them.


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## lectrocrew (Sep 30, 2013)

*great 3.7 thread!*

Thread revival = I just acquired a 'low hrs/high years' Craftsman 3.7/18 (model 917353762) saw that has been stored in a house basement for 12 years. It's all there and I got it running, somewhat, after only purging the 'gas tar crap' out of the fuel tank, carb and changing the fuel filter, and many small prime shots of fuel mix into the carb intake. But it will need some TLC. The carb diaphrams are almost solid so I've got Tillotson HS carb kits ordered for it and my Stihl 041FB (same Tillotson HS kit). I'll know more after getting the carb done first but I think this will be a great little saw with no big $ needed to get it right. The cylinder bore and piston are baby-butt smooth and compression is 165. It leaks fuel between the case halves but I'll carve a gasket for that when I get started on the internals inspection. I'm glad I found this thread because the info will likely save me a ton of time.
I'm retired from logging/mechanic work but I help a local saw/mower/auto parts dealer repairing hand held power equipment in the busy summer months. This season is just about over so I'll soon have some time to spend with the new additions to my saw family. I really like the rugged build of this 3.7 and I always liked running a low RPM/high torque saw when I was cutting timber years ago.
I'll start my own thread when I get started on my rebuild but I just wanted to thank you, and all the participants of this thread for the great info.
And, Opihi59, I certainly "Thank You" for your military service over seas so that we can continue to be free to live for our hearts desire ... my case being - you guessed it..., building saws LOL!!!
Mike


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 30, 2013)

My 2nd Roper joined the pile.










He was part of a two saw deal. Just needed a good cleaning and fresh fuel.

Craigslist here he comes.....................................................................


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## Opihi59 (Jul 15, 2015)

Well fellow sawdust flingers and chip throwers, it's been a while since I put anything into the thread, but I've seen a lot of forum traffic regarding this genre of saw in my lurking--the venerable Roper 3.7 I've used a ton of saws out of my pile, but I keep coming back to the 3.7. It has an excellent balance with a 20" bar pulling 3/8" pitch, it has enormous power, and it just has a unique sound thru big wood 4 strokin' at WOT. I imagine folks have read thru my Stihl tophandle thread, and the MS660 etc, but I keep coming back to the Ropers. I have 3 of these here, all screaming and throwing chips, and a 4th sent to my son in WA state so he can get firewood and spread the virtues of this saw.
I did some cutting this past week for a buddy, since I have now retired after 38 years Active Army federal service including 4 combat tours, so I find time to help out my buddies with vertical trees who desire them horizontal. Loan of a chainsaw from me includes me, saws, and a truck that is as equally and gloriously spavined as I am. 86 Toyota 4 X 4, approaching 200K miles, never lets me down. So I brought down a Lychee tree, these can be pretty big with many accessory trunks and are always packed in closely to several homes that generally look to be tear-downs though with high occupancy levels. Lychee bear a very unique fruit that is killer when you can get it, but this tree has never produced while the adjacent buddy tree put out choke Lychee. Barren tree is coming down to make room for Mango, or Avocado, or bananas. Came down I should say, as it is now in smaller sizes in my back yard and I'm using appropriate sized chunks for smoking meat that I don't want to be overpowered by Keawe smoke. Lotta smoking of large slabs of dead animals here lately. Axis Deer, Briskit, Salmon I caught in AK, whole chickens, Taco/He'eh/Octopus, Turkey, feral pig, maybe some roadkill mongoose.

So what does this all have to do with the Roper story? Eh? If you're Canadian, "what's this all aboot now? My bar/chain oiler wasn't working right on my primary 3.7, so I had to set it aside and use the husqvarna closed port 55 Rancher, and the Stihl tophandle 015L. The little Stihl decided to show me that gas was mixing across the fuel reservoir into the bar lube reservoir and vice versa, so that little saw had to get put aside as well as it quit running trying to combust bar lube instead of 2-stroke mix oil, and I don't think the gas/mix thinned bar lube was quite doing the trick either. That saw has now been torn apart once again and I laid Yamabond on both sides of the gasket and put it back together to cure a few days before a test run.

My Roper oiler quit oiling though, and that is disturbing as it has both an automatic adjustable volume, as well as a manual function for supplementation of volume. There are 3 copper fittings/3 copper lines associated with this Roper 3.7 oiling system, and it is a bit complicated. I've read a ton of other threads with some of our forum's finest offering help on this topic, and hopefully they'll pitch in on mine. I'll just throw in my theory and a ton of photos. How's that?





You're looking from the right side of the saw, under the airbox. You can see one copper line, between bottom of the oil reservoir, up to the air box, and it goes to the valve you'll see in the next photo. As you depress the throttle trigger, it simultaneously opens this valve, and in what I can figure out it allows case pulse pressure to provide some pressurization of the oil tank thru a separate copper tube; valve shown here now inside the air box, connected with the trigger.







 Valve in the lower left corner, inside the airbox.

This shot below is the opposite side of the assembly as I showed in the first photo in this post. You can see the valve in the box, though disconnected, (wait, it's not really there, just hallucinate it as I don't have a better photo loaded) and can see the round black knurled increase or decrease twist knob for oil flow, and the mostly square (Okay, it's a rhomboid, maybe better to just say it is a truncated triangle) black thumb press button that I love so much to squoosh out extra oil as I need it, and of course, I suppose I do over oil.





This saw though was getting no oil either auto or manual, and it wasn't from clogs in the pipes or problems with the bar and bar mount cover as I can tell.

So here is the pulse line below, it goes into the middle nipple in the oil tank.





And the oil feed line itself is here, the portion visible is going under the pulse line, and continuing forward in the case and pops out on the right side of the saw.





Oil feed line visible here on right side of saw where it pops out from the opposite side of the case, just behind and slightly above the rear most bar mount bolt. No hallucination required.





So when you remove the oil pump itself, it looks like this one in the top part of the photo, one from another of my 3.7s.





The bottom portion/cap twists off, does not unscrew, and reveals a return spring for the plunger, and a small flanged duckbill check valve.









So as it turns out, my duckbill check valve no longer checks, and I'm getting no lube to my bar/chain. Does anyone perhaps have knowledge of a source for a substitute flanged duckbill checkvalve? That cap on the bottom of the pump merely presses/taps back into place, and the pump unit can then be screwed back into its position. I'd appreciate if anyone has some input on this. While I can swap my one working pump back and forth between these 2 saws, I'd really rather have the both of them fully working as these are the ones I rely on the most. Maybe my benefactors Roanoker494, 67L36Driver, Hotshot, etc will come to my rescue once again.


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## hotshot (Jul 15, 2015)

Aloha! The classic Roper thread unburies itself again.

What's the base flange diameter on that duckbill?

Due to flowing bar oil, that's going to be much larger that a standard Poulan vent valve. Probably need to start looking at an aftermarket aquarium or water check application, or maybe a spring & ball type check.

Cruise Fleabay for "sankey kegerator beer valve". Same seller has a black one for the tap valve that looks smaller if that's too big. This may be the first case where chainsaws and cold beer do mix. 




I was cutting with a blue & white Roper 3.7 back in May and thought about this excellent old thread...

EDIT: I got the dimensions for the black kegerator Fleabay duckbill above, and it's too large. 11/16" (.688") diameter on the collar, 3/8" (.375") on the stem diameter, and 5/8" overall length. ..


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## Opihi59 (Jul 15, 2015)

That little flange mics out at 0.325 " and it is 0.345" tall. Immediately above the base this wee elusive little obsolete piece of rubber is 0.163" diameter. The flange is 0.036" thick. I do suppose that I will have to poke around and look in my son's aquarium supply drawer to see if he has any of those anti-refluxing doohickeys you put in the air line so it doesn't siphon water back out in case someone shuts off the earth's gravitational field. There could also be a range of sizes that I could get away with here too come to think of it; it's not like I need a 5 antigen match for a liver transplant.
And thinking of Kegerator, I just scavenged a water cooler and stripped it for the cooling system so I can homebrew in a cool water bath. It's real hard to maintain a good fermentation temperature out here and we don't happen to Air Condition our house. I'll be putting on a brew this weekend.
I will Cruise Fleabay and see what is there under the beer valve suggestion. Maybe now that I have posted out some dimensions it may prompt some more responses. Thanks for reading thru all my drivel and giving me suggestions.  These Ropers are really awesome saws. If the house caught fire I'd grab that one over the others.


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## hotshot (Jul 15, 2015)

Google "Taprite #70501" for the smaller pony keg dispenser tap.

That may be a direct fit, but you'd need to get dimensions from a distributor or sales office.

BTW, those reconstituted surgery towels make a great back drop for the photos.


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## macstrange (Sep 2, 2015)

This is my 3.7


My brother- in- law picked this up from a guy who was throwing it away. He gave it to me last year. Got it running after a few pulls and left it at that. Finally got around to looking at it again and found a fuel leak at the front of the tank/saw. Got it all tore down, except for clutch, I can't budge that thing. Busted the head off a screw under the flywheel. Don't now what I'm gonna do about that. Need to order carb kit and get some gasket material and a new fuel line and put her back together. When I started it last year I thought the oiled wasn't working, but after looking at it today, it does work.. happy to find this thread last night. Its nice to tear down a saw and know ahead of time what your looking at. Someone did put a trigger unit in the saw though. I don't know why the guy was going to trash it.


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## macstrange (Sep 2, 2015)

BTW does anyone know which repair kit I would need for a Tilly HS161a?


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## Opihi59 (Sep 2, 2015)

macstrange said:


> BTW does anyone know which repair kit I would need for a Tilly HS161a?



Give this a shot, Google is your friend: http://www.tillotson.ie/products-parts.php It will tell you for that carb you will need D5-HS/T for the full Diaphragm and Gasket kit, or RK23HS for just the gaskets. Most likely you need the DG kit. Good luck.



hotshot said:


> Google "Taprite #70501" for the smaller pony keg dispenser tap.
> 
> That may be a direct fit, but you'd need to get dimensions from a distributor or sales office.
> 
> BTW, those reconstituted surgery towels make a great back drop for the photos.



*Hotshot*--As a Surgeon, I have an endless supply.........In June though, I retired, and am not sure if I'm going back to work or not, time will tell. Maybe if my collection starts running down, I may just have to get back to work. They are awesome shop towels, and I do like using them as back drops for my photos I post up.
As far as the duck valve goes, I have not done anything in regards to replacing it yet. Retirement got in the way, then finishing the kitchen remodel, then various major repairs on multiple aging vehicles including yanking 2 engines, and now flat-bedding my 30 yr old Toyota 4X have got in the way of working on my saw pile. I'll get to it, and will of course post up a solution for the forum.


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## macstrange (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks alot

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## macstrange (Sep 2, 2015)

I think I read that in the roper thread.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Alan Farms Jr (Oct 9, 2015)

A perfect bar replacement is the 
*Oregon 18" Pro-Lite Guard Mate Chainsaw Bar (72 Drive Links) 180GLGK216*
- See more at: http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...rtFinderType=BarSelector#sthash.LaZoyOMm.dpuf


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## Opihi59 (Jan 30, 2016)

Alan, thanks for the information. I have converted most of my Roper 3.7s to 3/8 now, since I found the sprocket off my Huskvarna 55 fits right on the splines of my 3.7 saws. Then I put on an Oregon 200PXDD176 with a 72GX070G chain 3/8 pitch, 0.050 gauge, 70 drive links. This saw has abundant power to pull that 20" bar, and it has given me no issues. I've been totally away from the forum I'm afraid, and have likely missed much. Hope all is been going very well for all my buddies on this forum. I do believe that is everyone by the way.
Still have made no progress on duck bill valve issue as above, I found the anti-reflux valves for aquarium air bubbler hoses is way too big, so my favorite go-to saw featured in this thread is gathering dust.


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## s sidewall (Mar 16, 2016)

Just picked this up a few days ago, all original, bar and I believe the chain is too. Had no spark til I cleaned the points, problem is the fuel tank is pouring gas out as fast as you can pour it in, leaking at bottom rear near handle. How hard to tear down to split the case, never worked on a saw of this vintage or brand.

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Mar 16, 2016)

Not overwhelmingly difficult. Start on page one, I give a blow-by-blow on the experience. The tank is enclosed in the case halves, it is not a separate plastic piece so you need to get some Yamabond/Hondabond/threebond to seal it back together. If the screws do not come out easily in separating the case halves, heat them up like with a torch, hot gun etc but make sure you've evacuated any fuel/fumes etc. 
And if you get frustrated in trying to do this, put it in a box, send me a PM and I'll give you my mailing address. Very nice "sleeper" saw you have there. It's worth bringing back to life.


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## s sidewall (Mar 17, 2016)

You sound like ya did when we where working on those top handle 2.3 Craftmans a few years back. I'll keep this on too. I've worked on a good many saws with real crank cases but none with the motor is not part of the case, ( crank case/cylinder assembly). I use GM gray sealant on my cases, haven't had any problem with the stuff. Just a pain to take back apart after fully curing out. Good to see you're still around.

Steve


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## s sidewall (Mar 17, 2016)

Your compression release lever is different from mine, has a threaded adjustment on the on off switch.

Steve


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## s sidewall (Mar 17, 2016)

This is the style system on mine. I'll get some pictures this weekend when I go to the farm, mine must be an older model than yours, compression release valve is made different, return spring on the side of motor above muffler.

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Mar 17, 2016)

Very interesting. I have not seen that personally, or in any of the innerweb research I've done. You must have a really early model, as mine are solid state IGN, and yours is points/condensor. Really looks like a nice saw though. Worth saving, and then using the crap out of it like it was made to be used.


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## s sidewall (Mar 19, 2016)

Rough day at work, had to pull left fuel tank on an 09 Yvette and replace fuel pump, pita. Well, how hard to pull fuel tank on this Roper?

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Mar 19, 2016)

Not as bad as the Vette job. More closely akin to removing the heater core on a Wrangler YJ. Not too tough, but a few steps. Change out fuel hose, filter, etc while you're at it.

If it gets too much a PITA, you know what to do........


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## s sidewall (Mar 19, 2016)

LOL, do need a new boat anchor. 

Steve


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## s sidewall (Mar 19, 2016)

Well it wasn't too hard to pull apart.

Steve


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## s sidewall (Mar 19, 2016)

Steve


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## SarahW (Aug 7, 2016)

I have one of these and it kicks butt! The question I have is that where the manual oiler is shown as there is an empty hole. It has the automatic oiler system but is the manual plunger necessary to operate? The hole doesn't seem to have any threads for the plunger to mount to and it is the 373750 solid state.


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## Opihi59 (Aug 7, 2016)

It would have to seem that someone pulled the manual oiler assembly at some point, but I'm not familiar with there being an open hole here, or that these models were sold without a manual oiler pump. Would of course like to see some photos. You're sure though that the auto oiler still oils when you use your saw?

I have not come up with a duckbill valve for my saw(s) manual oiler as of yet, but I really haven't looked. I've just been using other saws in my pile and the Ropers are just gathering dust.


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## SarahW (Aug 7, 2016)

It does seem to oil some but not a major flow. Priming/purging takes a while at full power. I was tempted to put a rubber plug on it just to see if it makes a difference.


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## Opihi59 (Aug 7, 2016)

While our model numbers are similar, they aren't identical, so there may be subtle differences. That being said though, I cannot imagine that the hole for the manual pump would be uncapped so to speak. I have to say though that even later models of the Roper 3.7 still had a manual pump, though it was a bit dissimilar, as in my 917.353770 model featured in another thread, photos about 2/3 of the way down the page. If I were take a SWAG at it, I'd have to feel that someone in the past has pulled the pump out of yours, and left that cavity open.

Do you have any background history on that saw? Such as "my grandpa/dad bought it new and it's been in the family forever, and it's never been worked on" or "I got it at a yard sale."


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 7, 2016)

If that one is like the one I have, the oil only gets to the bar mount at WOT. There is a shut off valve connected to the throttle trigger.
Same general system is used on Remingtons.

You must also 'burp' the pressure from the oil tank when done or suffer an ever growing puddle of oil under the saw. Just loosen the tank lid.


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## Opihi59 (Aug 7, 2016)

67L36Driver said:


> You must also 'burp' the pressure from the oil tank when done or suffer an ever growing puddle of oil under the saw. Just loosen the tank lid.



Yes, like my 3 Jeep Wranglers, these saws like to mark their territory. I open the oil tanks on all my saws after orienting the saws so the fill plug is facing UP, and they get a rag under them, or some of The Dragon Lady's lingerie since stuff like that around this mad house never gets even close to being used any more for its original purpose.


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## SarahW (Aug 7, 2016)

I was mistaken on the model although the base chassis sure looks the same. in fact it is a 353710 if that helps. Is there a cross-ref for finding an air filter too?


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## Opihi59 (Aug 7, 2016)

Yup, that's the same "base" as I have. I can pretty much guarantee you that someone has pulled the manual pump on yours. They are available if you search for them, but you are unlikely to get an air filter. You can line yours with some thin felt like from a fabric shop or hobby store and glue it around the edges of the OEM filter frame and it will be just as good as your original. Mighty nice looking saw you have there. I'd call that a keeper.


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 7, 2016)

The manual oil pump from a Homelite, Remington, Lombard, and several others will work in there. You may just end up with a round push button.


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 7, 2016)

SarahW said:


> I was mistaken on the model although the base chassis sure looks the same. in fact it is a 353710 if that helps. Is there a cross-ref for finding an air filter too?



That's a flow control valve for the bar oil top, left of the handle.


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## SarahW (Aug 7, 2016)

I got it off craigslist for $20 last week because "it needed fuel lines". I put a new chain on it(super 20) and found the leak was the bottom of the crank/tank case. A little tank epoxy and leak is gone. To help prevent it getting damage again I added a sheet of rubber on the bottom face. Later comes the repaint but I first have to verify all the features. Eventually it needs a bar too but it works for now. 

When I bought it I thought 'eh its just a big 20 buck saw' not wow its a 60cc powerhouse. Already used it on the job a few times enough to know it was time to sell my Stihl 012 14". That little saw was a lot easier to pull but the diaphragm oiler was not very consistent or available. Someone else bought that one off me for $100  which was found free.


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## SarahW (Aug 7, 2016)

67L36Driver said:


> The manual oil pump from a Homelite, Remington, Lombard, and several others will work in there. You may just end up with a round push button.



The flow control and auto-actuator are as they should be. The question is should there be something in the apparently blind cavity where the thumb pump would be.


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## SarahW (Aug 7, 2016)

If I am understanding it correctly, the manual plunger simply adds pressure to the tank to influence more flow? If that is the case, does it do detriment to have the hole open?


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## s sidewall (Aug 7, 2016)

Opihi59 said:


> It would have to seem that someone pulled the manual oiler assembly at some point, but I'm not familiar with there being an open hole here, or that these models were sold without a manual oiler pump. Would of course like to see some photos. You're sure though that the auto oiler still oils when you use your saw?
> 
> I have not come up with a duckbill valve for my saw(s) manual oiler as of yet, but I really haven't looked. I've just been using other saws in my pile and the Ropers are just gathering dust.


I took a green Poulan duckbill valve and cut to fit mine and seemed to work OK. 

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Aug 7, 2016)

^^ Any chance you'd have a part number on that? What was it that required cutting, etc and where?


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## s sidewall (Aug 8, 2016)

EBay has the green Poulan types, had trim the base diameter down. 

Steve


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## s sidewall (Aug 8, 2016)

Poulan valves are all the same

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Aug 8, 2016)

Thank you very much for the pro-tip, I'll look into that Steve.


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## JonCraig (Aug 10, 2016)

Hoping I'm not hijacking this thread. Working on a newer Roper 3.7, the fatter looking one w/ the plastic fuel & oil tanks. Type 643M108. Lower rod bearing took a dump. Anyone know a part # & source for them? Thanks!


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## Opihi59 (Aug 10, 2016)

Not a hijack at all. Happy to see another Roper restorer here. Earlier in this thread, page one, there was a suggestion from Mastermind that Homelite XL12 series chainsaw roller bearings would work. I didn't try that myself, but their parts list shows 31 needles as required on my Roper, and I have to say the exploded diagrams look really similar to my Ropers. Go to page 6, item #28 on this list below.

http://www.barrettsmallengine.com/partslist/HomeliteXL12.pdf

Part number: A69054, 1 ROLLER SET (31)

Some shop is bound to have them, and of course, let us know how it turns out for your saw.

For *Steve*, I have ordered one of the duckbill valves you suggested, and when it comes in I'll see if it will work in the oiler of my Roper so I can get my saws back into the wood again.


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## JonCraig (Aug 10, 2016)

Thank you. Just ordered a set & will update thread with how they fare.


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## hotshot (Aug 11, 2016)

Pretty sure you two are talking about two different Roper check valves (Opihi59 & Steve).

The little green duckbill that Steve is talking about fits in the center tank line fitting, the black one in the manual oiler
that you need is a big, like the kegerator beer charger fitting. There are a couple of complete Roper plunger oiler assemblies
still on ebay...just wont know if the valve is good unless the seller has tested them, or you do.


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## Opihi59 (Aug 11, 2016)

Thanks Hotshot, always appreciate your input on these sort of issues. I pretty much figured it is a long shot. I don't have a way of knowing dimensions of the green duckbill valve as it isn't listed online, and I don't have a shop on my island where I can go hold one in my hand. Of course getting an ebay plunger/oiler assembly is also a krapshoot, but they cost more than the $3.50 invested in the green valve. I found the various duckbills in aquarium air hoses used as an anti-reflux valve is way too big. To me, the Roper one is pretty tiny. So I suppose the green one is really on the micro scale.
I checked at the only home brew store here in the state, and got the proverbial deer in the headlights stare when inquiring of kegerator beer charger fittings. I do homebrew, made my own Keezers, etc but at this point don't keg but bottle. My oldest son kegs his brews but wasn't familiar with what you have mentioned. 

I'll keep digging around, though slowly I suppose til I come up with something I can get to work. I have used penrose drains to fabricate temporary heimlich valves, as well as a rubber glove with a finger tip cut off, and have even considered trying to find some very very thin (as in balloon thin) rubber tubing that I can fashion as a one-way valve for the oiler, but just haven't made progress on this. I don't expect anything will fall into my lap, but I'm keeping my eyes open.


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## hotshot (Aug 11, 2016)

Yep, I looked and could find nothing close to replacing that big honker.
Maybe you could buy a fleabay used one, and your state side relative could receive
it, then bring it out to you on her next visit...just saying


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## Opihi59 (Aug 11, 2016)

Somewhere, there's a place that specializes in duckbill valve, and has various dusty piles of every size valve imaginable in a dimly lit shop/warehouse. I suppose that's just fantasy of course, but somebody somewhere knows a source. I'll keep poking around of course. I have found places online that seem to specialize in these but sell only in bulk, etc. Who really wants to send someone a bunch of samples anyway? There are a ton of applications where duckbill valves are used in a variety of industries, I just need to find some of these items and take them apart and try to scavenge/salvage something acceptable.


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## JonCraig (Aug 16, 2016)

JonCraig said:


> Thank you. Just ordered a set & will update thread with how they fare.



Welp, they came in, and they're a tad shorter, but seemed to be the same diameter. Seemed to fit around the crank just right & all felt fine. 

Got the whole thing back together and it ran for ~9 seconds before it stopped abruptly. I'm thinking it was from the flywheel-side crank bearing. I reassembled with just motoseal (there was a gasket before), and it felt a little tight. I think it needs that extra clearance from the thickness of the gasket. Hopefully it'll come apart again. 

Anyway, here's pics of the homelight needles vs the Roper (the one on the right):


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## Opihi59 (Aug 16, 2016)

Would be nice if they're the same length, but I suppose the end play may not really matter. Most critical is the diameter of the individual needles. Thank you much for sharing your experience and of course those great photos!!

On another note I am awaiting arrival of the poulan duckbill valve I ordered and as of yet have no input on that issue. I did contact a few duckbill sources but it seems that all I could come up with were the suppliers who expected me to purchase in lots of 10,000 units. While I could perhaps mislead them and say I wanted a few various samples for testing purposes, that would just be too wrong for me to sleep with on my conscience. I suppose I'll continue this quest weakly and see what comes my way. Of course, you know there will be more to follow on this topic as I do have an affinity for these awesome Ropers.


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## s sidewall (Aug 16, 2016)

Well if you think about it, you would be testing to see what works best for your need and for durability. 

Steve


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## JonCraig (Aug 31, 2016)

The bearing cap screws failed. Spectacularly. I don't know if the needles themselves contributed or not.


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## s sidewall (Aug 31, 2016)

Looked like a needle nearing got the piston, cylinder looks the same I guess,man that six, sorry to see that. 

Steve


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## JonCraig (Aug 31, 2016)

Yeah--The bearing cap came loose, needles got out and wrecked everything. Not sure if the needles didn't sit right & allowed the whole works to shift, which loosened the screws, or if I didn't notice that the screws were worn when I reassembled. Chicken and egg kinda deal. 

In any case, it's all toast. In any case, I figure I've worked on 50 or 60 saws, and this is the first one I've roasted. Not too bad. And considering I bought the saw for $10, and put $10 bearing and $10 carb kit in it, I'm not too deep into a failure. ;-)


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 31, 2016)

Blue Locktite may have helped.

I use it as part of my old saw with cap screws routine.


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## s sidewall (Aug 31, 2016)

Sad to have an old saw get toasted. Parts for those are far and between, far from here and probably between to post in an old barn. 

Steve


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## s sidewall (Aug 31, 2016)

You bond to find another in Tenn, lots of of old mtn barns still standing up there, was up that way couple months ago for a GM training class next to the diesel school. 

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Sep 1, 2016)

Sad to see it grenaded on you. I tend to use threadlocker blue on these, it seems I use it more and more on automotive stuff as well like flywheel bolts, setscrews on shift forks etc. Threadlocker red is a bit too stiff, you have to heat that to get it to come loose.

Just sad to see that degree of carnage. The rest of the parts are worth something on fleabay if you go that route, or decide to search for parts to fix it once again.


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## jerrycmorrow (Sep 1, 2016)

JonCraig said:


> Yeah--The bearing cap came loose, needles got out and wrecked everything. Not sure if the needles didn't sit right & allowed the whole works to shift, which loosened the screws, or if I didn't notice that the screws were worn when I reassembled. Chicken and egg kinda deal.
> 
> In any case, it's all toast. In any case, I figure I've worked on 50 or 60 saws, and this is the first one I've roasted. Not too bad. And considering I bought the saw for $10, and put $10 bearing and $10 carb kit in it, I'm not too deep into a failure. ;-)


may be able to help if you want it. probly took a few small parts off. pulls through, doesn't feel bad. ive got two others. yours for postage.


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## JonCraig (Sep 1, 2016)

Very generous, Jerry. Thank you. PM sent.


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## s sidewall (Sep 1, 2016)

Sounds like you'll be back in the saddle again thanks to Jerry. 

Steve


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## Opihi59 (Sep 1, 2016)

Now that sounds like a win for sure. Isn't this forum a great place? What a community!


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## JonCraig (Sep 1, 2016)

Indeed it is


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## jerrycmorrow (Sep 2, 2016)

Any of youse guys can steer me to a set of rings for the 3.7. One of mine is low compression to where it really doesn't want to start


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## Opihi59 (Sep 2, 2016)

Pretty sure I put photos and details in an earlier post as well as source from "The Greek" via ebay


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 2, 2016)

jerrycmorrow said:


> Any of youse guys can steer me to a set of rings for the 3.7. One of mine is low compression to where it really doesn't want to start



Check a Homelite Super XL. The are the same bore and 1/16" thick if I remember right. The Pioneer 1200 is also the same.


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## Pa.coal Dave (Sep 5, 2016)

Just wanted to thank everyone here. This site is just a wealth of info on getting my old 353750 running again after resting in the barn for 33+ years (with gas in it). I bought it new in July 1977. Used it heavily for 5 or 6 years. Great saw in it's day for me.
Just need to fashion a new air filter. Thanks again for sharing your experiences and fixes.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 5, 2016)

They are good saws and well worth keeping alive. You can likely glue a thin piece of felt around the perimeter of the old filter and drive on.


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## SarahW (Sep 5, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152081692159?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I have one of these on mine. Trim two of the sides to fit the hole and it works fine. I need to get pics up of the metal air filter cover I made recently. Same shape but made out of car fender metal. Also made a chain clutch cover/dog spike unit for the other side out of metal. Kicks butt with 20" bar.


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## Pa.coal Dave (Sep 5, 2016)

Awesome!


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## Opihi59 (Sep 5, 2016)

Pretty sweet. Sounds better than my fabric remnants. Site now shows one bought in last hour..........bet that was Pa.coal Dave.........


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## Pa.coal Dave (Sep 5, 2016)

That was just too easyOpihi59. This morning when I drug that thing down from the barn and brushed 30 years of dust off of it, I'd bet $50 it will never run again let alone finding a forum on the web loaded with valuable information. AND AN AIR FILTER! WOW!
Dang......and I had the wife convinced I'd probably have to buy a new Husky.


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## Opihi59 (Sep 5, 2016)

You can still get a husky. I never take only one saw to a job anymore. I take 3 or 4 so they can all get a chance to play, and I have a backup if I yank off the starter cord on one, or run into a piece of metal or a rock and booger up the chain. Always good to have a backup. Of course, I'd recommend getting an older model someone else has had sitting in their barn for a few decades as well. In general, consumer level saws just aren't all that satisfying anymore when you have a dozen vintage saws. So go ahead and start looking for a husky, or Stihl, or Mac to round out the collection. Or of course another Roper or 3.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 6, 2016)

Backup:






The above varies month to month but you get the idea.

Dang, I thought I had my Roper in there.


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## Pa.coal Dave (Sep 10, 2016)

Opihi59 said:


> You can still get a husky. I never take only one saw to a job anymore. I take 3 or 4 so they can all get a chance to play, and I have a backup if I yank off the starter cord on one, or run into a piece of metal or a rock and booger up the chain. Always good to have a backup. Of course, I'd recommend getting an older model someone else has had sitting in their barn for a few decades as well. In general, consumer level saws just aren't all that satisfying anymore when you have a dozen vintage saws. So go ahead and start looking for a husky, or Stihl, or Mac to round out the collection. Or of course another Roper or 3.


 
I can only imagine what today's home owner saws feel like as compared to the old Sears/Roper. I remember well that thing with a 20" bar and full chisel chain just pulling itself down through a big old oak or cherry log and all I did was keep the throttle mashed and let her hog it's way down through.
That was yester-year. Gees I have to stand on the thing to pull it over now and the compression release is working. Just too much for the old man anymore. At least it gave me great satisfaction to know it still runs like a beast again after all those idle years. Thanks again to everyone in this thread for sharing all their wisdom and knowledge in reviving catalog number 917.353750.
Dave


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## jerrycmorrow (Oct 4, 2016)

@JonCraig what's the latest on your rebuild? just curious.


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## JonCraig (Oct 4, 2016)

Got some time for it a few days ago. Had a XL12 piston brand new that seemed a perfect match. I have everything back together now, tried to start but she wouldn't pop. Was getting late so I stopped working. I have tomorrow off work, so I plan to get her running. Thanks again for the plethora of parts. They've been needed!

--JC


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## JonCraig (Oct 5, 2016)

She runs! I got freaked out at first because it was throttled WAY up--I suspected a big air leak. But I'd already pressure & vac tested? As I was taking carb off again, I heard a small rattle. Lo and behold, a small screw sitting inside the reed cage! It was the throttle plate screw! If this had been a piston-ported saw, that screw likely would have nuked it. 

Anyway... Who knows how many drive links of .325 it takes for the original 18" banana bar?


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## JonCraig (Oct 5, 2016)

This look like it means 66DL to you?


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## Opihi59 (Oct 5, 2016)

I'd go count chain, but I convert all mine to 20" 3/8 chain/bar now, using a 3/8 rim sprocket from Huskvarna. I think I have the info buried somewhere back in an earlier post.


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## JonCraig (Oct 5, 2016)

The one I have still has the original bar, so I think it would be cool to use that one (helps that it's the only extra bar I have, too). 

I don't remember if it already had a chain on it when I got it or not... I'm thinking it was so rusted it was a goner. (Maybe I should have sent it to Philbert?)

In any case, the bar appears to be .050. The only other .325 pitch chain I have is on my 028S, but it's.063, so I can't even get it in the bar to make a guesstimate on how many DL the roper originally took.


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## jerrycmorrow (Oct 5, 2016)

wrap a string around it, measure length, divide by chain gauge (3/8, 0.325, etc.), divide by 2. should give you a good estimate. OR take it to a saw shop and let them measure it.


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## s sidewall (Oct 6, 2016)

My chain has to be made at the shop, has the original 17" bar on it, the chain looks like it is too.


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## s sidewall (Oct 6, 2016)

Opihi59, how have you made out on getting a check valve for yours?


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## Opihi59 (Oct 6, 2016)

I did get the check valve, I think 3 of them, I have not had a pressing need to work on the saws lately as other projects are consuming me, but at some point I'll give one a try and see if it will work. I know it seems like it would just take a minute to do, I just haven't done it what with building a motor bike from scratch, remodeling the laundry, utility bathroom and man cave so I just have my energies directed elsewhere. I will of course post in the results.


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## s sidewall (Oct 7, 2016)

Remodeling is a night mare on its on, good luck. . Ya, let us know how the valve works out and what kind you used. 

Steve


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## Pa.coal Dave (Jan 26, 2017)

I ended up covering the old air filter with a piece of shop vac filter. Don't know how long that will last but it works better than nothing.
Got the Husqvarna (445) but it doesn't hold a candle to the old Roper today.


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## JonCraig (Jan 26, 2017)

I have a box of leftovers that @jerrycmorrow gave me. I don't think there's a usable jug in there (I think I got the last one), but there's plenty of extra pieces. If anyone wants to pay shipping, it's yours. Just paying it forward.


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## s sidewall (Jan 26, 2017)

Did you get yours back to running Jon?

Steve


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## JonCraig (Jan 26, 2017)

Sure did, and then my Dad wanted it so bad I sold it to him for what I had in it. Probably should have just given it to him, in hindsight.


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## s sidewall (Jan 26, 2017)

Would have been nice, we dont have our parents forever. Mom pasted two years ago on New Year's Eve and now it's just dad. He's 81 and me and my brother will do just about anything he wants done. 

Steve


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## s sidewall (Jan 26, 2017)

Oh, by the way, glad you got it running, I'm just glad my dad can't pull mine with the decompression on, be might get hurt with that saw. 

Steve


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## mohick (Jan 27, 2017)

John Graig I got one of those bars and chain hanging in the barn, will count after daylight never used it change everything to 3/8 looks to brand new . saw is great just have no use for .325 stuff


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## RobertJ (Apr 21, 2017)

Any follow up on the duckbill ? I'm looking for one that allows air into fuel tank, just above flywheel, ahead of Air intake. It's a 1/16 npt. Any new oem, or used valves are prolly going to be hardened with age, rendering them useless. They were made of Buna, I believe. Silicone would be mucho gooder. Plus, that oem set-up should have been engineered with some sorta filter.


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## RobertJ (Jun 20, 2017)

This thread sure died, ....................... like pulling the plug.


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## s sidewall (Jun 20, 2017)

It still around, not many of us still trying to patch up a roper, just gettem running and put it on a shelf. 

Steve Sidwell, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk


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## Modifiedmark (Jun 20, 2017)

I just got one the other day and I will dive into it pretty soon to get it going. It's been many years since I touched one of these 3.7's. I just had to have this one when it was offered to me by another fine member who picked it up for me.


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## s sidewall (Jun 20, 2017)

A Massey, haven't seen one with that branded on it. [emoji106]

Steve Sidwell, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk


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## Modifiedmark (Jun 20, 2017)

s sidewall said:


> A Massey, haven't seen one with that branded on it. [emoji106]
> 
> Steve Sidwell, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk



I doubt you will see many, I have only seen a couple others ..


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## RobertJ (Jan 14, 2018)

Looks like this thread hit a wall. Good reading, up to this point. Don't Spose there's any news about black plastic air cleaner cover? I have 3 for my three 3.7's, but would like one more good one. There's a junk one on ebay, but not interested.


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## RobertJ (Feb 10, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-craf...535228?hash=item5d7aa420fc:g:xlUAAOSwFLBaemdN


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## JonCraig (Feb 10, 2018)

I have a box of 3.7 parts that was given to me. Anyone have any interest? As I recall, there are no pistons or cylinders. 

No charge—I would only need buyer to cover shipping. Anyone interested?


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## fool skip (Feb 10, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> Looks like this thread hit a wall. Good reading, up to this point. Don't Spose there's any news about black plastic air cleaner cover? I have 3 for my three 3.7's, but would like one more good one. There's a junk one on ebay, but not interested.


I see you are close by. What is a low hour good running 3.7 worth in our area? I picked up one with a batch of other saws. It doesn't fit in my collection. Thanks.


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## s sidewall (Feb 10, 2018)

I don't see the white covers any where, handle got snatched out of my hand and done a number on mine, glad for super glue. 

Steve


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## RobertJ (Feb 12, 2018)

JonCraig said:


> I have a box of 3.7 parts that was given to me. Anyone have any interest? As I recall, there are no pistons or cylinders.
> 
> No charge—I would only need buyer to cover shipping. Anyone interested?



Is this parts for the early model? Looks like the Massey Ferguson above? Takes the air cleaner cover like I show on my knee.


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## RobertJ (Feb 12, 2018)

fool skip said:


> I see you are close by. What is a low hour good running 3.7 worth in our area? I picked up one with a batch of other saws. It doesn't fit in my collection. Thanks.


 Just missed that one on Ebay, all complete, for 50.00. Spending money on my GL1800 Goldwing right now, or I'd be interested. What model is it ? Sears, Roper, Massey brand? Bob


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## fool skip (Feb 12, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> Just missed that one on Ebay, all complete, for 50.00. Spending money on my GL1800 Goldwing right now, or I'd be interested. What model is it ? Sears, Roper, Massey brand? Bob


Craftsman 3.7 powersharp. I took the powersharp off but have it in a box. I think the saw has the original bar. I would be glad to trade for some thing running or not.


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## RobertJ (Feb 12, 2018)

Unfortunately, nothing to trade. Sorry.


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## JonCraig (Feb 12, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> Is this parts for the early model? Looks like the Massey Ferguson above? Takes the air cleaner cover like I show on my knee.



I believe it’s mostly for the other one (at least, that’s the one I had). The larger, fatter looking one that is more round. I definitely did NOT have the one shaped like the Massey above. 

I guess I could stop being lazy and go into the garage when I get home and take some pictures...


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 16, 2018)

I need advise.. Have a 3.7 ROPER not getting any oil to the chain. That's a problem but not an immediate concern. Bought a carcuss for the manual override, popped the cap on my good saw only to find a smooth hole.. Question is???? Wait for it.. Is that a sleeve? Do I tap it? Do I put the lid back on the hole and worry no more.. Whataya think? Pros.. Thanks in advance.. K


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## s sidewall (Jun 16, 2018)

Some had manual oilers, some didn't. Manual oiler would only let the oil flow more, pressure operated system.

Steve


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 16, 2018)

s sidewall said:


> Some had manual oilers, some didn't. Manual oiler would only let the oil flow more, pressure operated system.
> 
> Steve


I noticed a pump inside the air box that works off the throttle.. Just an observation. Still figuring that out.. Thanks Steve.. Cheers ....K


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## s sidewall (Jun 16, 2018)

This is what my oil lines look like with manual oiler.






Steve


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## s sidewall (Jun 16, 2018)

Beetlejuice said:


> I noticed a pump inside the air box that works off the throttle.. Just an observation. Still figuring that out.. Thanks Steve.. Cheers ....K


That's how my auto oiler works, off a linkage on the throttle lever.

Steve


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## RobertJ (Jun 17, 2018)

That "oiler" in airbox, is actually an on-off valve to stop oil flow at idle. Your problems with oil may almost certainly be duckbill valves. They get hard and distorted. You might want to read this whole thread, to get more up to date on oiler problems. The oil flow is achieved one of 2 ways. The manual oiler, which has it's own duckbill, and crankcase pressure, which is controlled/trapped by a cpl. more duckbill's. One of those copper tubes is the source of crankcase pressure, which has a fitting type duckbill at casting by manual oil pump bore.


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 17, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> That "oiler" in airbox, is actually an on-off valve to stop oil flow at idle. Your problems with oil may almost certainly be duckbill valves. They get hard and distorted. You might want to read this whole thread, to get more up to date on oiler problems. The oil flow is achieved one of 2 ways. The manual oiler, which has it's own duckbill, and crankcase pressure, which is controlled/trapped by a cpl. more duckbill's. One of those copper tubes is the source of crankcase pressure, which has a fitting type duckbill at casting by manual oil pump bore.


That would be inside the starter housing? Manual oil pump bore.. Thanks for the kick in the right direction.. I will start at the start of this thread.. ROPER is a little different critter than I'm used to


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## s sidewall (Jun 17, 2018)

They are odd.

Steve


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## RobertJ (Jun 17, 2018)

. Yes, inside starter/flywheel area. Once you get fresh duckbills working reliably, the oiler actually works quite well.


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 17, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> . Yes, inside starter/flywheel area. Once you get fresh duckbills working reliably, the oiler actually works quite well.


Robert and Steve.. Thank you so very much. I wouldn't have spent this much time on an old saw, but it runs so well.. I have no patience, I give up on a turd after 4 minutes.. I'll post what happens.. Again.. Many thanks.. K


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## RobertJ (Jun 17, 2018)

Just when I thot I knew all the brands. Tilton? Those 2 saws look like wrecks in the making !


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cr...299254?hash=item41e44fa5b6:g:kX8AAOSwcJ1bCyLp


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## s sidewall (Jun 17, 2018)

Will take both to make a half one from the looks of them. Like that starter handle. If it has the compression like mine, he'll need something better that that, like a snow blower motor starter handle.

Steve


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 17, 2018)

s sidewall said:


> Will take both to make a half one from the looks of them. Like that starter handle. If it has the compression like mine, he'll need something better that that, like a snow blower motor starter handle.
> 
> Steve


I'm up and going on the ROPER, thanks to all the knowledgeable people out there.. AND only took this many beers


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## s sidewall (Jun 17, 2018)

Looks like yours has the decompression system on it, work ok?

Steve


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 17, 2018)

s sidewall said:


> Looks like yours has the decompression system on it, work ok?
> 
> Steve


Steve, I don't think so.. I've hit all buttons.. Sh*T man , even made one and then put a Phillips wood screw in it so I knew which hole was mine


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## RobertJ (Jun 17, 2018)

Cool. I sure wish one could fin d those air cleaner caps.


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 18, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> Cool. I sure wish one could fin d those air cleaner caps.


Let me look for a cap.. Is comp release part of the on/off switch?


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## s sidewall (Jun 18, 2018)

Yes it is, one way for off, the other for decomp, I think push down and pull back. Been awhile since I've had mine out. Those air filter covers weren't made out of good stuff. Starter handle busted mine when compression snatched mine out of my hand. Thought I lost a few fingers, it smarted.

Steve


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 18, 2018)

s sidewall said:


> Yes it is, one way for off, the other for decomp, I think push down and pull back. Been awhile since I've had mine out. Those air filter covers weren't made out of good stuff. Starter handle busted mine when compression snatched mine out of my hand. Thought I lost a few fingers, it smarted.
> 
> Steve


I was starting it without the help. I just figured it was like my Jonny 2094.. MAC 1-70 will, WILL, take a finger or two.. Those covers are plastic, as you know.. But almost looks like a Homey super XL might fit. In any case, I'll put a cover on my boneyard list. Might be a week or two so don't go running to the bank. Thanks K


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## RobertJ (Jul 3, 2018)

Hope you find one. Sooooo busy, forgot to get back here.


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## Beetlejuice (Jul 3, 2018)

RobertJ said:


> Hope you find one. Sooooo busy, forgot to get back here.


You too?. I sold the newer 3.7.. Now working on the older one.. Those clutches are an SOB to get off.. Just saying.. Boneyard Thursday or Friday.. Just keep reminding me.. I'll write it down, but then forget where I put the note.


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## woodyk (Nov 29, 2018)

Ok, I don't know why but I love the challenge of getting old power equipment back to life.
I was given a Craftsman-Roper 3.7/18 that was destined for the dump.
I squirted some pre-mix in the carb and pulled it over.
She ran for a few seconds and died, good news!!
I ordered a carb kit (walbro) from Amazon Prime and got it in today.
She is back to life. Has lots of power, now a keeper!!
I read all 18 pages of this thread, very informative..
I downloaded Craftsman manuals and Walbro carb overhaul manual.
Glad I read the carb manual and the caution about using compressed air and damaging the rubber check valve.
I want to remove the auto-sharp and replace the chain with a more aggressive chain. 
What is the most aggressive chain that is available that works on the stock banana bar?
This one ? Oregon 20LPX074G 

The picture shows the model and serial #


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## woodyk (Nov 29, 2018)

Is there any way to find the year of manufacture?


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## s sidewall (Nov 30, 2018)

Have you checked with Acres internet, good saw info 

Steve


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## woodyk (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks, I will check it out


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## hotshot (Nov 13, 2019)

This classic thread needs to be made a sticky!!

Wanted to add a note that the 2 screw Tillotson HS-79A carb did NOT use a main nozzle, so you’ll NOT have a check valve!

I rebuilt & ran my standard pressure tests on one yesterday, and thought it was failing the check valve test. It was not!

Called VE Petersens to confirm. They said there’s only a handful of HS series carbs that had the main feed drilled directly into the venturi.


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## ccr2525 (Dec 22, 2019)

i have like 8 of these saws....i collect them all the old style


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## RobertJ (Jan 1, 2020)

Wow! I only have 5. I sure wish someone would turn up a bunch of NOS Air cleaner plastics. I know, pipe dream.


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## RobertJ (Mar 19, 2020)

This thread is dead, it appears. Sure wish someone would re-create the plastic Squarish air cleaner cover. Better plastic, if possible


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## s sidewall (Mar 19, 2020)

Mine is the white molded brittle plastic. Super glue can only hold so much together. And it would be a puzzle trying to make it complete. It still does what it's supposed to do.

Steve Sidwell


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## RobertJ (Mar 19, 2020)

s sidewall said:


> Mine is the white molded brittle plastic. Super glue can only hold so much together. And it would be a puzzle trying to make it complete. It still does what it's supposed to do.
> 
> Steve Sidwell


The black plastic is very brittle, like all old plastic gets. Designed-in obsolescence ? I pulled the antenna on my Zenith Trans-Oceanic 3000-1 over a week ago, and the red plastic knob just crumbled in my fingers. Can't find one, yet. I can make one out of epoxy, but very time consuming. Sure not going to try that with air cleaner cover. LOL


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## Huskybill (Mar 19, 2020)

I sanded and used epoxy on one 2100 husky air cleaner cover. Sanded it down again and maybe some filler next with paint.

Check eBay often?


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## RobertJ (Mar 19, 2020)

Huskybill said:


> Check eBay often?


Yes, often. I did score one about a year ago. I only need one more.


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## s sidewall (Mar 19, 2020)

Mines a shelf queen that gets started once in a while when I want my ears to bleed. Had to split the case on it, was leaking fuel near the rear handle. Only reason the cover got broke is from the compression snatching the starter handle out of my hand twice. Lesson learned on using the decompression setting. 

Steve Sidwell


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## RobertJ (Mar 20, 2020)

I haven 't even touched my 3.7's since about Sept. I have one more in the queue to do. Mostly carb, and split the cases for that dreaded leak problem. Been busy with restoring old radios, and related gear. Now, I'm about ready for riding the bike. If we don't end up under marshal law. TIC.


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## RobertJ (Mar 3, 2021)

Wow, this thread sure died, kinda like Woolworths or K-mart. LOL


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## Spudhut (Apr 12, 2021)

hotshot said:


> This classic thread needs to be made a sticky!!
> 
> Wanted to add a note that the 2 screw Tillotson HS-79A carb did NOT use a main nozzle, so you’ll NOT have a check valve!
> 
> ...



My Saw: Craftsman 3.7A 917.351771

Driving this thread back up. Is it not a good idea to put the 2 screw HS-79A on? Is it better to run the old single screw adjuster? I would like to put the Low/High adjustments if possible.

What about the 2 screw Tilly HS161A?

What Muffler mods have people done on these?


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## hotshot (Apr 12, 2021)

The Tillotson HS-79A (adjustable 2 screw carb) can be a good upgrade from the HS-143 fixed high carb. Never have messed with modding the mufflers on those, but a richer high speed adjustment is usually required when you do.

Believe that the HS-161A is the same sized later model carb, but used a smaller hose barb fitting. If you call the distributer, VE Petersens in Ohio, they can pull up the two carbs for comparison. I do remember that both the 79 & 161 carbs have an enrichment type governor valve & the odd “air leak” bleed hole drilled right in front of the throttle shaft linkage.


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## slimbo3006 (Apr 12, 2021)

for those interested....








AIR FILTER COVER FOR CRAFTSMAN CHAINSAW 3.7 ---- BOX 1429 L | eBay


BOX 1429 L. UP FOR SALE IS A AIR FILTER COVER FOR CRAFTSMAN CHAINSAW 3.7 IN GOOD CONDITION.



www.ebay.com


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## Spudhut (Apr 12, 2021)

Thanks guys for the reply. Glad to see life coming back on this one.

I picked up this saw from flea bay to run it with my Poulan made Craftsman 3.7. I ran the 3.7 on a few trees but its down at the moment cause the plate that holds the fuel stop in the Walbro broke at the small forks flooding it beyond runability . Now I'm in a search to find another stock carb (HDB) or fuel stop plate insert. Regardless, I got the Roper to run tonight and boy is it crazy tough to turn over (insane compression). I pulled the spark plug and it turns over nicely, but with plug in place and holding it in your hands and pull starting it like a low cc saw is nearly impossible unless you want to smack yourself in the face with it. I splashed a little fuel in it and nicely enough, it fired off almost immediately and idled. I will rebuild the carb as I saw some fuel leak by and try the HS-79A for grins. I popped open the muffler and to be honest, why Mod it when there is nothing in it but a screen. I should have checked before asking. With the cover off, its super loud.

A few other questions:

There is a +/- knob to the left, is this to control the amount of bar and chain oil flow? I have read these could have decompression valves, but I believe in this model I have, its all in the trigger and top switch.

This saw has a 5/16 chain on it with an 18" bar. Id like to run a 3/8 chain (skip tooth or ripper) and bar set, 20"-24" or maybe 28" (unless you think its unadvisable) to run on my Granberg 24" chainsaw mill. I have a Homelite Super XL that has a manual oiler, but to have a spare with high CC's to mount to it would be nice. What you guys think? What clutch and sprocket assembly would you recommend?

I love old saws. I build hot rods for 20 yrs and have moved on. I have always loved old tools. Never have I showcased them, I like to refurb them and run them like I stole them like they were intended. Im also looking at a few old Macs (10-10a, 10-10) and Homelite Super 2's. I do have a new 42cc 16" Craftsman and 46cc 20" Craftsman that I slightly modded for quick grab and go use. I keep them all tuned and sharpened ready to work.


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## s sidewall (Apr 13, 2021)

Which Model of sears roper do you have? I've got the sportster model 3.7. My decomp is part of the kill switch, you pull it back to set decomp. The + and - is oil flow, the oil pump knob is a pressure type system on mine. Just push and let it flow. 

Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


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## Spudhut (Apr 13, 2021)

Mine is Craftsman 3.7A (917.351771). Grey and White Model.


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## hotshot (Apr 13, 2021)

Spudhut said:


> I ran the 3.7 on a few trees but its down at the moment cause the plate that holds the fuel stop in the Walbro broke at the small forks flooding it beyond runability . Now I'm in a search to find another stock carb (HDB) or fuel stop plate insert.


Would be best to post the Poulan parts questions in the Nik’s Poulan “Chainsaw Stickies” thread or the Tradin’ Post, Parts Wanted stickie thread in the Equipment Forum.

Those HDB circuit plates, Walbro #157-608, have been obsolete/NLA for quite some time now, probably due to that staked-in lever pin design.

Even used OEM Walbro carbs, HDB-8 & -18 or -19, are getting hard to locate but do occasionally come up for sale on fleabay.

Another option is to try to find a used $10 Echo or Mac HDB carb for parts, then plug & re-drill the orifice to match the diameter of your old one.


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## Spudhut (Apr 13, 2021)

Thanks Hotshot, I mingled over there and posted.

Back on subject - This Roper saw has a 5/16 chain on it with an 18" bar. Id like to run a 3/8 chain (skip tooth or ripper) and bar set, 20"-24" or maybe 28" (unless you think its unadvisable) to run on my Granberg 24" chainsaw mill. I have a Homelite Super XL that has a manual oiler, but to have a spare with high CC's to mount to it would be nice. What you guys think?* 

What clutch and sprocket assembly would you recommend?*


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## s sidewall (Apr 13, 2021)

Here's mine. These saws are really loud and have Dr. bills compression. Takes a good shoulder and arm to start mine unless you use the decom on it. Even with it on it still has descent compression.












Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


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## Goinwheelin (May 30, 2021)

Haven’t read the entire thread yet but I picked this up at a swap meet yesterday. Compression felt good and it had the roller nose bar so I figured why not. 




Piston looked good and it ran on prime. Mag rot on the handle seems weird because that’s the only spot it really has it. She’s a stout pull for sure.


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## Spudhut (Oct 2, 2021)

Great find @Goinwheelin


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## gumneck (Nov 8, 2021)

Posted this one in the Nik's Poulan thread that I picked up last week and thought I'd extend this Roper built thread a little more. Need to address the nonexistent fuel line/filter in the tank and open up the carb to see how that looks. It runs on prime. Other than the outside grime/dust, saw is very clean and intact. Rubber on the handle is in very good shape, rim sprocket and bar sprocket show very little wear. For what it's worth, I'll post pics along the way.


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## gumneck (Nov 8, 2021)

Before cleaning.


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## gumneck (Nov 8, 2021)

After cleaning...


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## gumneck (Nov 8, 2021)

First Roper saw I've collected that didn't have a ton of rust on the bar. In black script, on the right side close to saw body "Automatic Oiler", mid bar "3.7 /17" , and the tip sprocket "Friction Fighter". Never seen it before and thought I'd post and probably hard to make it out in the pics.


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## gumneck (Nov 8, 2021)

Got it separated tonight. Trying to remember if this brass nipple for the fuel line comes out in order to get the line in the tank. CRS is flaring up from the last Roper I put fuel line in. Anyway, gonna saw a long 5/16 socket to the right length as I think I can get the nipple off without pulling the motor....I think. Feel free to type a correction.
Done for the night.


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## Huskybill (Nov 9, 2021)

Did roper make the sears craftsman 3.75 saw?


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2021)

Huskybill said:


> Did roper make the sears craftsman 3.75 saw?


I've only seen the Roper built for Sears 3.7. I have 2 other ones that have the manual oiler in Island Teal/White and Red/White colors. This one here just has a plug/hole where the manual oiler goes. I haven't pulled the plug out to see in the hole but curiosity is building.


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2021)

Here's the other Roper Sears 3.7 that I'm aware. The red one in the back, best pic I have that I can find. I have 2 of these that run and cut well. 
Seems I"ve seen the older style Roper in a 3.7A version.


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## gumneck (Nov 9, 2021)

Got the fuel barb/nipple out without removing motor. Gonna have to see if I got some fuel line to fit, definitely gonna take some luck,lube, and loquatiousness to get that line and fitting back in.


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## gumneck (Nov 15, 2021)

Well, I got a chance to work on the fuel line install without the tank being split. I dont think it can be done. I'm wondering if the black Echo fuel line would be a little softer/pliable maybe even smaller than the tygon line. Once the line is on the nipple fuel tank side trying to pull it back through the tank enough to be able to catch the brass threads is seemingly impossible. Started removing flywheel and clutch last night. Flywheel was a bear to get budged but it moved and only destroyed one nut. 
The clutch wasn't moving with the cheapo grinder tool I've used dozens of times. I'll try the right size bolts in the vice trick and turn the saw tomorrow.


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## gumneck (Nov 16, 2021)

With flywheel off on to the clutch, another puller I made years ago I found but was just not quite gonna fit. The vice trick turning the saw did not work only bent some 3/16 solid rod scraps I had laying around. So need to make it more solid and add a third leg to it. Put a few mig boogers on some bar stock....crude but clutch off.


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## gumneck (Nov 16, 2021)

Thought I was home free....nope, those 4 screws holding the motor were blowin spit, snot, and 3 farts tight. I got 2 out popping blood vessels and seeing crooked worked on the last 2 for 15 minutes and remembered I have the tool that is specifically made for this job...CRS cripples me. A few hits on the impact driver and we're moving!!


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## gumneck (Nov 16, 2021)

All that just to get this brass fuel barb/nipple screwed back in with new fuel line. The fuel line on the barb tank side gets squeezed out and it was impossible to get my cut down socket I made on the fitting and get it started with the engine still in. With it out, I could trim the line a little and put enought straight on pressure to get threads to start with a long socket. Tank is gassed up to see if any leaks, so far no leaks, see what happens by morning. 


Never seen this roper badge and thought I'd post.


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## s sidewall (Nov 18, 2021)

Did you use echo fuel line? That's what I used when I split mine. Didn't want to use tygon cause I didn't want to go through that again. 

Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


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## gumneck (Nov 18, 2021)

s sidewall said:


> Did you use echo fuel line? That's what I used when I split mine. Didn't want to use tygon cause I didn't want to go through that again.
> 
> Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


Hey Steve, no I used tygon, i believe its the real tygon and not the cheap version. I have a spool of echo saved on my ebay watch list that I just haven't pulled the trigger on. It sounds like on the site that the echo is the way to go. The tank does not leak(yet) from an overnight soaking in straight gas. Flushed it out a few times then sprayed the inside with carb spray quite heavily to get more stuff out, which it did and is now looking good. The tank wasn't bad to start with anyway. So I'm curious, when you say you split yours do you mean split the fuel tank? Was yours leaking?


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## s sidewall (Nov 18, 2021)

The fuel tank was leaking near the rear handle. So I had to completely disassemble the saw and split tank to reseal. With it completely apart, lot easier to run my lines and clean up the saw also. I used Derco to seal up the tank. 

Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


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## s sidewall (Nov 18, 2021)

With tank split, easier to run line. The bottom point was where tank was leaking.









Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


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## ColoradoViking69 (Dec 2, 2021)

Hello friends, thanks for keeping this thread alive! It’s fun to see the projects. I just got my old Roper/Craftsman 3.7 up and running this year, just in time for firewood season. It’s the older style, model 917.353762. She’s a powerful little saw! Put a 28” Oregon bar on it to save my back, and I’ve been impressed.
The one thing that could use some help is the clutch (I believe); when the saw is idling it tends to start spinning the chain. I haven’t really messed with the tuning, so I suppose that could possibly have something to do with it, but my guess is the clutch spring is worn out. Anyone happen to have one they could let go? I’ve only found one on eBay, and the guy wants $45 for it plus the freight… kinda steep I think. I’ve also contemplated making my own spring from some coil spring of the same diameter, since it’s just one loop on each side of the clutch. Whatcha guys think? Would it be worth taking apart, jimmy-rigging two springs, and trying to rivet the clutch back together? I’d much rather buy one from somebody’s parts saw, if y’all have a spare. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gumneck (Dec 3, 2021)

Pull your clutch cover off and post a good pic. I would be inclined to idle it back a bit first.


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## gumneck (Dec 3, 2021)

I finally got the final touches done to mine tonight with both sides of the carb new diaphragm, new nylon nut on the flywheel and fuel filter I had laying around. I have other Roper 3.7's but this one is tight. Started easily and idled perfect right away. Low side adj only carb with 1.5 turns out. Worked on the chain and will put it to the real test tomorrow.
Side note for anyone redoing one of these. I must have moved the top oil line when viewed from the flywheel side enough that the backside of the flywheel was making contact with the ss line. I didn't notice until I was trying to pull the starter. I could here some scratching going on and initially thought a ring had got caught and was doing damage to the cylinder. Luckily, caught it before it rubbed a hole in the oil line. So just make sure the oil line is well behind the flywheel. I kind of like the idea of a longer bar on this one like Colorado's up above, that looks pretty good...I've got a 24" Husq bar I found in the street gutter to a 7/11 that I might just do if the mount works. I'm going to at least go ahead and polish the bar since you can't see any writing on it.


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## gumneck (Dec 3, 2021)

Just thought of something else. Where some of these have the manual oiler this one looks to just have a cap for where the manual would go. Anyone ever lifted that cap to see what's in the hole? I haven't and I have another version of this saw that I may rob the parts from to make this a manual one too. 
Let me know, thks.


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## ColoradoViking69 (Dec 14, 2021)

Looking good, gumneck! Glad you got a solid runner. I definitely like the manual oiler, especially running a longer bar, it just feels nice to be able to give it a little extra lube. Hope you can find the parts, I’ve seen them on Chainsawr but he’s mostly out of stock now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ColoradoViking69 (Dec 14, 2021)

This is the clutch on mine, it really looks in decent shape, I’d just like to solve the chain-spinning. I took it off, cleaned all the gunk out, and oiled the springs lightly, but it still spins at idle. I will definitely try some carb adjustments, but I’m skeptical since I can’t hear anything change with the engine when the chain starts free spinning. Would adjusting the low idle up, or down be the right direction?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gumneck (Dec 14, 2021)

ColoradoViking69 said:


> This is the clutch on mine, it really looks in decent shape, I’d just like to solve the chain-spinning. I took it off, cleaned all the gunk out, and oiled the springs lightly, but it still spins at idle. I will definitely try some carb adjustments, but I’m skeptical since I can’t hear anything change with the engine when the chain starts free spinning. Would adjusting the low idle up, or down be the right direction?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I always see how many turns out my low and high side adjustment needles are set prior to changing them. So count how many turns it takes to get the low side lightly seated inwards and make note.
Make sure the chain is not loose on the bar, tighten it up. Does the saw idle fast? If so:
Then, turn the idle screw out (counter clockwise) about a 1/4 of a turn just to see if it slows it down first and stops the chain from spinning. If the low speed needs to be adjusted down, Turn the low side in (clockwise) about an 1/8th at a time. Check to see if it revs up quickly and then idles down and the chain coming to a stop. This can take several tries.


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## gumneck (Dec 14, 2021)

ColoradoViking69 said:


> This is the clutch on mine, it really looks in decent shape, I’d just like to solve the chain-spinning. I took it off, cleaned all the gunk out, and oiled the springs lightly, but it still spins at idle. I will definitely try some carb adjustments, but I’m skeptical since I can’t hear anything change with the engine when the chain starts free spinning. Would adjusting the low idle up, or down be the right direction?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And I agree that your clutch shoes look fine from what I can see here.


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