# true danger of base cut? - pulling leaning alder with big come along



## oldboy (Sep 6, 2015)

I've got some solid experience under my belt, and feel competent enough climbing with spikes or ropes. There are just so many darn leaning red alders where I live, people want em down, but I don't want to climb em cusa tha lean. I've had success shooting a line up high and then setting up a pulley to come along and cranking the heck out of it. The result of this is that I can reverse or dramatically change the direction of the lean, then take my notch and make my back cut... This method obviously also results in severe loading of the trunk, and you can hear the bugger popping as you walk up to it with your saw. So far so good, I've had a few chair on me, but they went slowly enough that I easily ran one of many preplanned escape routes to safety...

I'm planning on upgrading my come along to a big'un. I'll be tackling some bigger and harder leaning trees too. We all have probably heard of horror stories of trees (in my case red alder) chairing in a heartbeat or busting with big splinters flying... No close calls so far for me with this method, how likely are the chances of those terrible scenarios if I continue to take extreme care like I always do?

Thanks for any info!


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## thetreeassassin (Sep 6, 2015)

Hi Oldboy, if i am understanding your post correctly it seems to me to be a very dangerous and unnecessary way of felling a tree. If the tree has a big lean on it, then yes you should anticipate that the the tree will barberchair, but by trying to reverse the lean of a tree seems like playing russian roulette to me. If the tree can be felled in natural direction of lean, scarf tree and remember to use saw gunning sights put in wing cuts, when putting back cut in on leaning tree you should first leave approx 10% holding wood at the back then plunge cut into trunk, boring out trunk but by any means not cutting through your 10% hinge wood. Once this is done you need to cut through the 10% holding wood known as a release cut or pulling the trigger and exit via preplanned escape route. This is advanced tree felling and i am assuming you know the basics of tree felling, if not go do a course or get some solid information before going back into the field. The aim of the game is that we live to fell another day, good luck


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## Pelorus (Sep 6, 2015)

I dunno if "cranking the hell out of it" prior to even cutting a notch / starting a backcut is cricket.
there is a world of difference between having enough tension (to prevent a tree setting back and pinching a bar) and way too much tension. 
Anyhoo, if you do decide to carry on with your modus operandi, you might consider it expedient to wrap a chain around the trunk above your cut to curtail visits to the barbershop / hospital.


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## kz1000 (Sep 6, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Anyhoo, if you do decide to carry on with your modus operandi, you might consider it expedient to wrap a chain around the trunk above your cut to curtail visits to the barbershop / hospital.



I'm not a pro by any means, but was going to ask if anyone does that for safety. Thanks!


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## lone wolf (Sep 6, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> I dunno if "cranking the hell out of it" prior to even cutting a notch / starting a backcut is cricket.
> there is a world of difference between having enough tension (to prevent a tree setting back and pinching a bar) and way too much tension.
> Anyhoo, if you do decide to carry on with your modus operandi, you might consider it expedient to wrap a chain around the trunk above your cut to curtail visits to the barbershop / hospital.


I hope he aint doing this alone ,but it sounds like it.


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## oldboy (Sep 6, 2015)

thetreeassassin said:


> Hi Oldboy, if i am understanding your post correctly it seems to me to be a very dangerous and unnecessary way of felling a tree. If the tree has a big lean on it, then yes you should anticipate that the the tree will barberchair, but by trying to reverse the lean of a tree seems like playing russian roulette to me. If the tree can be felled in natural direction of lean, scarf tree and remember to use saw gunning sights put in wing cuts, when putting back cut in on leaning tree you should first leave approx 10% holding wood at the back then plunge cut into trunk, boring out trunk but by any means not cutting through your 10% hinge wood. Once this is done you need to cut through the 10% holding wood known as a release cut or pulling the trigger and exit via preplanned escape route. This is advanced tree felling and i am assuming you know the basics of tree felling, if not go do a course or get some solid information before going back into the field. The aim of the game is that we live to fell another day, good luck
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks for your helpful thoughts. It is necessary sometimes because the alders often lean over structures. They are tall trees with little taper in the trunk and slightly brittle wood. Goes without saying they like to fall where they lean, I'm just influencing their lean. The leaners often will break prematurely during notching or backcuts, I am hesitant to plunge and put a trigger on these because I don't think they are strong enough to hold together through the process given that they often snap when taking just a small notch, I may try this method on some of the less tensioned ones.



Pelorus said:


> I dunno if "cranking the hell out of it" prior to even cutting a notch / starting a backcut is cricket.
> there is a world of difference between having enough tension (to prevent a tree setting back and pinching a bar) and way too much tension.
> Anyhoo, if you do decide to carry on with your modus operandi, you might consider it expedient to wrap a chain around the trunk above your cut to curtail visits to the barbershop / hospital.



I crank the tree over to influence the lean so it doesn't hit a structure. It is definitely loaded with tension. I try to go as deep as I can with the notch, sometimes turning off the saw and taking ear pro out to listen for cracking, then when making my back cut, once the tree starts moving, I'm out of there. Thanks for the chain wrap suggestion, I will do that.



lone wolf said:


> I hope he aint doing this alone ,but it sounds like it.



I don't like to do this alone, but I still do sometimes.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2015)

That deep notch is part of your problem, pretensioning is another.


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## Greenthorn (Sep 6, 2015)

What causes a tree to barber chair


I always use the triangle cut on leaners, just my .02.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2015)

We covered barberchairs pretty thoroughly a couple weeks ago.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/what-causes-a-tree-to-barber-chair.283375/


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2015)

Oops, I didn't see that was a link.


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## Zale (Sep 6, 2015)

You don't need to put so much tension on it before hand. Make your face cut and set your hinge. Then start cranking.


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## Skeans (Sep 7, 2015)

You can dutch and siz alder but be dang careful like you stated they are bottle and will chair if you look at them wrong I swear sometimes. 

That red alder was dutched 90 degrees from its lean to the lean on a property line.

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