# Log haulers



## Greg

I have several very high end customers that refuse to let a bobcat on their property, will pay what ever it takes, but no ground impact. Tree Spyder mentioned that he useses a Blue Ox log hauler, I have been looking at some of the cool arches that www.futureforestry.com makes, does anyone have any experience with one of these type log haulers that leave no ground impact. 
Spidy, does the blue ox skid the log or does it lift it completely off the ground? I'm looking for somthing about the size of the blue ox.
One of the futre forrestry products with a 4wheeler could be a strong combo for big moving, low impact.
Greg


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## Tom Dunlap

I've been using an ATV for about seven years now. Here are some companies that make log arches:

http://www.harbisonbilt.com/default.htm


http://www.norwoodindustries.com/skidmate.htm


http://www.novajack.com/english/index.html


http://www.turboforest.com/


http://www.highlifter.com/


http://www.smucker.net/


http://www.atvbackpack.com/


Be sure to VOTE!

Tom


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## Reed

Cool stuff.

Unfortunately, perceptions of equipment - even if it's proven low impact - will never change for some a-retentive lawn nazis. I have a postal delivery buddy who has some great stories.

I have a JD Gator, kind of a donation thing from a dead guy but man, what an ATV. The stats show lbs per inch sq. on the ground with the standard floatation tires and it's 600% less than a hiking boot of a 180lb man. I factor a 180 man with a three-foot 14 inch dia. log as being mighty heavy, especially with Vibram lug soles. Either way, most clean-ups lean towards the "ASS" method: Arm and Sore Shoulder. I've returned to some takedown yards weeks later and see a path of footwork from the removals. Pitch-fork 'em, poke those tines alongside the packed earth and fulcrum them back up again. Many of the ground covers like St. Augustine suck, too sensitive. Buffalo grass can weather a packing but like any delicate cover, needs the pitch fork. It's a good addition to dedicated work, makes friends of even the hardest of L.N.'s (again, Lawn Nazis). 

I will vote. Thank you. Hope this time the tallies are legitimate. If not, I'm afraid the war will be here at home, guaranteed.


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## murphy4trees

I just bought a log dolly from a local saw shop.. It was designed and manufactured locally, by a retired air force engineer. It is designed to move logs by hand, fully suspended. It breaks down into 5 sections for easy transport. The legs extend higher and wider for different diameter logs. 4 men moved a 1500-2000 lb. log up a slight grade on grass... fairly easily...
I know you skid steers guys are laughing at us "Egyptians" ... and I recently got a 3k job because I was going low impact... the homeowner didn't want his lawn torn up. So one job and the machine paid for itself... Can you say that about your skid steers?
I've been thinking about some modifications including a trailer hitch, a hand winch.. (the present set up is for using leverage only to lift), and a cradle for hauling brush... And I still have to pick the dolly up from the shop and talk to the designer.
I'll post some pics later.
God Bless,
Daniel


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## Greg

Tom, Do you use the ATV in place of a skid steer? What size is it, 4x4? ATV with a winch Could be a strong tool, very low impact. 
A guy I know just got a big bob cat (i think 800's) to replace his stump grinder. He has a grinding attachment, and tongs for moving/loading logs. I was told that he put turf tires on it and it is low impact -do the tires make a BIG difference? I've seem my buddies 753 with the standard tires eat up lawns. If it is slightly wet or mushy, by end of day you'll be working in a mud pit if not running on plywood.


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## Tom Dunlap

I have a Waldon loader for big stuff but the ATV gest used on almost every job. The one I have now is a Yamaha 400 cc four wheel drive. I built a skidding type hauler on the back to lift logs and brush off the ground. We can pull some really huge loads.

Be sure to VOTE!

Tom


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## John Paul Sanborn

I use a long rope, lotsa pullies and my pickup.


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## Tim Gardner

The lugs on a Bobcat will chew up the turf. A guy that owns a tree service in my area put wide turf tires on his and it helps a lot but a cat is heavy and still ruts a yard. Every homeowner around here competes to see who can dump the most water on their lawn each night. A crane or the “log hauler” is the only low impact way to remove logs I know of. Ours has large truck tires on it and is pulled by an ATV. It can be towed on the highway because of the truck tires.


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## Tree Machine

I have a good deal of experience with log haulers. I own three of them, a blue ox, a larger mid-size tong / winch log hauler, and then the MacDaddy, what is called a tractor arch, the last two from Future Forestry Products. I tok down a tree today, and the log, 42"DBH, 18 feet long, and by the Sherrill log weight chart, approx 4,000 pounds. I backed the arch up over the log, set up a 2:1 block and pulley (standard with that arch), and winched the bugger up.I am very glad to say I took digital photos of the whole process, which I did in under 10 minutes. 18 feet of log will give me two exceptional saw logs, and what could have taken me a number of hours to deal with cut-up rounds, now takes 10 minutes and no extra helper.

Low impact is the name of the game with these arches. In the photos I took today I show the solo takedown of this rather large tree through the stages. For low impactness, I lay out tarps, then at the base of the tree, I put down plywood and three tires roped together. On top of the tires I have a thick rupper mat. from the top of the tree down, 16 -18" hunks are whacked with a Husky 394 and pushed off from way up high onto the tire /plywood/ rubber mat zone. when I got down to 18 feet, I came out, pulled the tires and mat and plyewood out from the base and moved it all 18 feet away. I dumped the tree right over top of the rounds and WHAM! onto the tire/plywood, mat.
Then it was back the arch up, do the lift and drive it out. The ground, after all was said and done, was almost pristine. I will bring that photo series to view at Future Forestry's booth at the TCI expo. I will also have other photos of how I use the arch to plant trees, move stump sections and how they're used to build log benches.


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## Greg

post some of the arch pictures here. 
greg


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## Tree Machine

*Log Arch IMAGES*

I have some very descriptive pictures of these arches in action, however they're all shot high resolution and the file size is too big for Arboristsite.com to take. I know, I know,.. crunch em down first. I haven't learned how to do that yet, but for now, I'll just share more experience with my three rather incredible devices.

First, they save your back. The Jr Arch I use more than anything. It instantly tongs logs up to 16", and you whisk them out of the zone. The most untrained, newbie ground guy can use this after 10 seconds of demonstration. A 1000 lb log an be move by a single man, over uneven terrain, with ease. Using the utility chain instead of the tongs, you can bundle and haul several small logs at once- fabulous for those back yard issues where your chipper is a ways away. It can also lift a tree which has been cut off, yet is still standing vertically.

The middleweight champ, designed to provide INCREDIBLE leverage, can handle logs up to 2500 pounds (5600 Kg) and just over two feet (~65 cm) in diameter. You roll this arch over direct center of the log, swing the arch to position vertical, the tongs self-position themselves, and then you pull down the tongue; yes, you pull down to lift up, sort of nice having gravity help you elevate something heavy! Once the log is up and you have a teeter-totter center, push. Or pull. I have moved huge logs, easily, out of the depths of a back yard and out to the truck, alone. It is amazing, once you overcome the forces of friction, that sheer mass can be dealt with rather effectively. Two men together can move, by hand, any log that the arch can get off the ground. This arch is commonly use in conjunction with an All Terrain Vehicle. I have mine mounted on my chipper, and take it out only when I have a takedown situation and I want the log. 

Now the BIG DOG, what I've pet-named the LOG ROVER, is Future Forestry's T-40 Tractor Arch. It can be towed with any pickup truck ( I use my sport utility vehicle). This arch will lift a 4,000 # log (10,000 Kg), up to 42" diameter ( >100 cm)! This arch has no tongs, because it is too massive to position vertically. Instead, you just back the arch over the log, or hand wheel it, and affix the cable, either choker, or 2:1, than crank it up. I wheel it around, couple it and uncouple it, etc, by myself, but this arch is really a two-guy arch. This arch is built to withstand ANYTHING up to it's full capacity, and probably beyond. The winch is two-stage, meaning first gearing, a quick cable uptake, and then you easily and instantly click it into low gear for the lift. The thing is absolutely amazing. I once bundled and carried 5 cedar logs at once for milling into closet lining and another time, three oak logs, perfect, clear, straight, all 20 -24" (each 50 - 60 cm), each 17 feet long (>500cm long), ALL AT ONCE, and hauled them off to my log stow site for future milling. These logs used to be destined for chunking into firewood, because there was no other alternantive. If you have ever felt sin in whacking up a perfectly beautiful log, then this is your penance. Buy an arch and start reclaiming your Karma.

Compare the price of the big arch to say, a crane truck. You will find a price around 1/20th of the big mechanized behemoth. The arch is low to no impact, uses no fuel, is quiet, and is one of the most amazingly effective tools for doing what it's designed to do - and that is to lift and allow you to move logs. They're very low maintenence tools, so cost of upkeep is ZERO once you've purchased them. Just WD-40 the winch now and again. Ask me more!


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## TheTreeSpyder

i try to use a lawn tractor, selling the idea it was made for lawns.... (JD 400,20hp), also use pulleys and line to fish stuff out with truck without invading like JP. If the truck run is 1/2 as long as the log pull i rigg a 1:2 (1/2 as muuch power, increased distance of log pull by 2x) with pulley on truck.

i believe these fellas have answeed the rest of the questions fully! Just had a gorilla hand truck stollen


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## Tree Machine

*Log Treesome*

Treesome.... sounds like a sniglet for a threesome involving trees! The latest arch concept is this: Three Arches; Junior, Middleweight and MacDaddy, Configured together as a unit. The Fearsome Treesome.

I actually SAW this, just a few weeks ago. Future Forestry just got the first one built less than a month ago. Mark Havel was set up and showing his lates improvement for the first time, at Bunyanfest, in Nelsonville, OH. Three weeks ago! You guys, I have photos...

The Fearsome Treesome,... it's like your arching future is right there. Mark has built these arch-tools so that they 'nest'; the middle one quick-couples to the Jr. Arch below it, and then the MacDaddy hoists the two of those up into its own self. It is a-mazing. It is a rock solid system, impressive and versatile. I guess 'Versatile' is the biggest word. Once you buy them, you don't schlepp them all around together all the time; you choose your arch(es) (usually Jr. And Middleweight Champ) depending on the job. But the 'versatile' part is, you CAN get all three easily, anywhere (Mark, by the way, towed the Treesome behind a truck, ON THE HIGHWAY, all the way from Oregon to Ohio!).

Anyway, that creature DOES exist. I knowed it, cuz I see'd it. Future Forestry will be at TCI the first weekend in November. He'll have the Treesome there. He also has an optional MOTORIZED WINCH for the MacDaddy Arch, for you ultraluxury crowd. See him at the show, otherwise, the website address is :
http://www.futureforestry.com


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## TREETX

I get my log haulers on Cesar Chavez Street downtown. They speak spanish or spanglish at best. Don't do as much damage as skidding with a winch.


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## Stumper

Tree Machine You wrote that the Log Rover handles 4000 lbs-10,000 kg. Which? Those are'nt even close to equivalent.(10,000 kg is over 22,000 lb.)


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## Tree Machine

*Math Correction*

Oops, 4000 KG = 10,000 cubits. If pounds were used, then pi to the X power divided by worms would define the relly of theorivity. 
This proves the Tree Machine shouldn't do math in his head.

I multiplied 4000 lb x 2.54 (there are 2.54 cm in an inch) to get 10,000. This just doesn't work. 4000 pounds, converted to Kg (since there are 2.24 pounds in a Kg), the math should look like this : 4000 lb DIVIDED BY 2.24 lb/ kg = ~1786 Kg. 4000 pounds = 1785.7 Kg

I stand corrected, and thank you. I'm seeing that not a lot gets past you guys.


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## xander9727

Actually, there are 2.2046 lbs (usually rounded to 2.205) in a kilogram. So 4000 lbs is approx. 1814 kgs. 
Sorry, I guess I'm a little anal.


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## murphy4trees

*hauler pic*

Here is the picture...
Tongs grab and lift log just behind center of balance... handle pulled down to ground lifting tail of log... chain wrapped under front of log... when handle comes up the entire log is lifted off the ground... very little weight on handle..
NICE!!!!!!!
God Bless,
Daniel


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## treeclimber165

I resized some pictures for Tree Machine so he could post them, but he never did. Nice setup too. Anyone seen him lately?


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## rahtreelimbs

I got the dimensions for the Log Dolly that Sherrill sells. I am fortunate being a laborer/ fabricator at a window co. I got all the pipe ( 1 1/4" OD 1/8" wall thickness ) I needed. A former co-worker got me a piece of 3/8" thick 24" X 36" plate for the bottom. Tires I bought at Home Depot. I have a Lincoln mig-welder and a 14" chop saw in my shop. I did all the work at home. I figure I have about $60 in this. I figure I've moved about 600 lbs. of wood at a time with it. Needless to say it works great. I know that not everyone has the means or supplies to build one of these, but I thought it was worth sharing.


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## treeclimber165

*Hey Rich*

When ya gonna weld me up a Porta-Wrap?


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## John Paul Sanborn

We'll see Rich at TCI next year "Hoffman's Fabricating".


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## rahtreelimbs

*Re: Hey Rich*



> _Originally posted by treeclimber165 _
> *When ya gonna weld me up a Porta-Wrap?  *




I've made those too. A few small ones for climging buddies to use up in a tree. Made one for myself just like the Porta-Wrap II. Have yet to use it. I don't know of a safe way to load test it. I made this one up one winter day when I had nothing else to do.


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## rahtreelimbs

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *We'll see Rich at TCI next year "Hoffman's Fabricating". *



That would be a dream come true! Sure would beat my day gig now.


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## Toddppm

Rich did you try to post some pics with your posts? Don't see em if you did.


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## rahtreelimbs

> _Originally posted by Toddppm _
> *Rich did you try to post some pics with your posts? Don't see em if you did. *



I wish I could. I need to get a digital camera in a bad way. If I can get my hands on one I will post some pics!


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## Tree Machine

*Log Movers*

Sorry I fell out of the loop there for awhile. Attached is a pic that *165* crunched down for me. I shoot all my images at hi resolution and they're all 1 meg, too big to put on this site. I haven't learned how to crunch em down yet. Pretty silly to have a full digital studio and not know how to crunch an image.

The attached shot is of a 30"DBH semi-technical hard maple I took down by myself, the day before the TCI expo. The image looks foggy because it was drizzly out. I pieced the crown down until I had a 20 foot trunk. I felled that, backed the arch up over the log, hooked up and pulled it out with a Toyota 4-Runner. The log in the photo is 18 1/2 feet long. It took me under 10 minutes to hook it up and get it out of there. The arch there is the biggest of the three I have and it can take up to a 42" diameter log. I think 18 feet is as long as you should go.

The beauty of the arches are that they allow me the freedom to work alone, as I most often do, and I can move a log that weighs a ton or two with relative ease. An arch is much less expensive, and takes up less space than a crane truck, needs no license plate, can be moved around by hand.

I must learn how to crunch images dow because I've photographed all three of my arches over the last year and have some _really_ cool shots to share with you.


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## Tree Machine

*Another log mover image*

Again, thank you *165* for crunching this image down to a viewable size. This shot shows a fat sugar maple log that I Woodmizered into 2" slabs. The arch is able to hook up to the whole stickered stack and travel down the road with it.

Would you guys be interested in seeing some more photos? I've got Photoshop and can find someone to teach me how to make the image files smaller so I can share them with you. 

The middle-size arch is just the _best_! It's a size that covers the most bases and gets the most use from me. It is very low impact with it's balloon tires and is quick to hook-up. The middle size arch also has both tongs AND a winch system and so is very versatile. I carry it mounted ON my chipper to the jobs where I'll need it. I had mine for two months, sold it, bought the bigger one, then missed it so terribly that I had to purchase another. Having all three sizes _really_ allows me to take on, well, really just about anything. I'd like to show you pics of how I pull small stumps out of the ground, plant trees, build log benches and (recently) hollow out drums for a local artisan.... all made possible with these new tools.


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## Greg

Great pics, post more!! Looks like you do some milling, do you use an alaskan type saw mill?? Nice looking slabs, what do you do with them? 
Greg


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## mikecross23

> _Originally posted by rich hoffman _
> *I got the dimensions for the Log Dolly that Sherrill sells. I am fortunate being a laborer/ fabricator at a window co. I got all the pipe ( 1 1/4" OD 1/8" wall thickness ) I needed. A former co-worker got me a piece of 3/8" thick 24" X 36" plate for the bottom. Tires I bought at Home Depot. I have a Lincoln mig-welder and a 14" chop saw in my shop. I did all the work at home. I figure I have about $60 in this. I figure I've moved about 600 lbs. of wood at a time with it. Needless to say it works great. I know that not everyone has the means or supplies to build one of these, but I thought it was worth sharing. *



Rich, could you send me those dimensions and tell me what kind of wheels/tires you got from Home Depot? What kind of pipe? Water pipe? I've got the means, and I can get the supplies to build one, but I have been putting it off for lack of good design.
Got a good picture yet? Any input would be helpful. Thanks! ! !


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## xander9727

Yeah Rich,
Send them to me too.


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## John Paul Sanborn

Hey now, you gotta order the whole from Hoffman Frabricating should be around 180 + shipping


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## Tree Machine

*Building your own log mover*

My respect to Rich Hoffman for creating a working arch for around $60. I've attached a picture of one I was creating awhile back, shown partially assembled. Someone gave me the arch, so all I had to do was throw together the other parts and Viola! I would have a mid-size log hauler.

This was about a year ago. I went to Lowe's and bought regular trailer tires (as showen in the pic), the tire and rim, ready to go, for around fifty bucks each. My guess is Rich was going for a smaller arch and went with wheelbarrow tires. So I'm at a hundred bucks, plus the time shopping. Then I had to go to Farm and Fleet because Lowe's didn't have axle assemblies. These, along with the lug nuts, cost about another 60 bucks. Then you have the other parts, the neck, the handle and then the lifting device... the tongs or a winch. I have a metal cutting chop saw, a 220 V plasma cutter, a MIG welder, a TIG welder and a stick welder. I have a great deal of experience in fabrication.

By the time I got to the point of the attached photo, I had sunk considerable time, driving to different places, the fabrication time, the cost of the materials and it was the last day of the 2001 TCI Expo, held in Columbus. My frustrating choice was to drive the couple hours to the show, or stay at home and try to finish this device. My better judgement said, "Go to the tree Expo."

I got to TCI and came upon the Future Forestry Products booth, and saw the log arches they had to offer. I told him I was building one of my own, but I let him show me his log arches so I could 'steal' some design features. The more I watched, the more I saw how there was no way, with all my self-proclaimed fabrication skills, I could build one to the level that I was seeing. He showed me all the components, I watched the video.

In a single moment of pure good judgement and sense, I threw down my credit card and said, "Ship me one." It was one of the smartest things I've ever done. Why? Because reinventing a wheel is a redundant exercise. Just because you CAN build something doesn't automatically mean you SHOULD. I applaud Rich, but he wisely concluded with a disclaimer that ,*I know that not everyone has the means or supplies to build one of these...,*. Thank you, Rich, as that is an all-important point. Even if you DO have the means, as do I, is it worth your time??? I learned (again) the hard way, that it was not . 

If you're earning $60 to $90 an hour, you should consider what is the best use of your time. Consider 'Murphy's Law' before embarking on your fabrication project. Consider 'opportunity cost'. If you have 'spare time' to build an arch, maybe you should be returning calls on those estimates where the people haven't gotten back to you, or drumming up new business.

Everyone's got there own scene and I'm not attempting to tell others how they should do it. I'm sharing some thought and wisdom because it's almost always easier to walk around a pit, than to fall in and crawl back out. There are some killer arches out there, phenomonally effective, well-designed and intelligently constructed. My advice? . At least get the free video before you go trying to build an arch yourself . www.futureforestry.com Tell Mark The Tree Machine sent you. Good luck.


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## mikecross23

*Log Dolly*

We're talking about a log dolly, not an arch. The dolly seems a little more realistic to build yourself and for me more practical considering I have a limited amount of space for equipment storage and hauling. Don't get me wrong I would love to have a mid-sized arch! ! !


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## Reed

Future Forestry's equipment is a good source, I appreciate the link but my opinion on the vertical ascender is......

what kind of idiotic brain process went into that development?

what more deadly an approach (besides ladders) to limb pruning than a vertical pole a man is mounted on? What's wrong with spurs? The mentality (perhaps) that's making irons obsolete is nuts - before Tom sent me his used spurs I needed for take-downs (and after mine were stolen in S.C.) I tried to purchase a pair of Bashlin's but the source in San Antonio told me.."they spread disease!" What an idiot. I use them for takedowns only.
He couldn't fathom this thought. Sure hope he doesn't reproduce ANY offspring. WalMart thrives on fools like this. 

No wonder the insurance industry is cautious. I wouldn't write a policy for ANY tree company that would employ such a device. 

If someone would say spurs might hurt the integrity of the log, they know nothing about the sawyer's world or timber in general. I travel extensively to New Zealand and I never saw the "ladder method" professionally used, only a single homeowner and chances he's a transplant from the U.S.A. looked likely - he was removing all his trees to emplace an asphalt lawn. 

I think we need to nip stupidity in the bud. Yesterday the news showed that 13% of high school students tested couldn't locate the U.S.A. on a globe.


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## Tree Machine

*Log Dolly and log arches*

Ahhh, me sorry for the misconfusion, and this is great stuff for all the readers... we're sharing our collective knowledge.

For the readers, the difference between a log dolly and a log arch is that the arch is placed over top of the log, at the centerpoint, or just off-center and it _lifts_ the log using either tongs or a winch / choker cable. Arches are used for moving l o n g pieces of wood. You get em up off the ground and wheel em out. The bigger arches will attach to the back of your truck, a bobcat, an ATV, a snowmobile, whatever, or more often than anything you push the log out powered by your own self. It is quite amazing the mass you can move by just overcoming the forces of friction.

The log DOLLY, on the other hand, differs in that you put the hunks of wood ON it. Its akin to a common two-wheeled, two-handled dolly that you use to move boxes of stuff, only the log dolly generally has a wider stance, fat pneumatic wheels and rather than a flat body, it is often cradled (has a curvature). The dolly is heavy duty to take the abuse you're going to put it through.

You move the log dolly much like you would move a wheelbarrow, standing it up vertically in front of you section of log, manuever the hunk onto it, tip it back to about 45 degrees or so and 'barrow' it out. Tree guys often use a device from the nursery industry called a 'ball cart', which is what I've just described, originally intended for moving burlapped trees, but of course can be used to wheel out anything heavy, especially good for masses that have an irregular shape.

Are those good verbal descriptions, or at least in the ball park? Both the arches and the dollies have their place in the tree guys tool arsenal. Both are valuable, back and labor saving devices.


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## Tree Machine

*Off the subject*

Clearing up the reply on the vertical ascender thing.... Oakwilt is referring to a device by Future Forestry of a device you post adjacent to a pine tree. After securing it to the tree, you sit on it and use the bicycle-esque pedal system to move you vertically up, about a foot or so from the trunk. On your way up, you saw off all the limbs up to a certain height. You come down, move it to the next tree and repeat.

Oakwilt's reaction I support because in our industry, this rig has no place. However, it is not for our industry that it is intended. It's for woodlot management, production pruning of straight-trunked trees where there's hundreds of them to do. As hairbrained as it was perceived, the device is actually brilliant for doing what it's intended to do, and one needs to keep it in that context. To idealize pine and fir trees for the use of lumber, you need to remove the limbs from the trunk once the trees reach 8" diameter or so. This does several things. 1) once the lower branches are removed, the subsequent wood laid down is 'clear' (knot free). 2) the branches taken off decompose and add to the humus layer of the forest floor and 3) if a fire swept through the area its less likely that the fire would climb the trees and the canopy would be spared. This adds much to the future value of the woodlot, hence the name Future Forestry Products. Remember, they are out in the Pacific Northwest and that was their original market niche. The arborist industry they have just entered recently.

Next time, before jumping off the thread subject and suggesting an 'idiotic brain process' it might be well advised to get all your facts straight.


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## Reed

I apologize. Sincerely. 

Been fired-up more than enough lately, quick to jump on excrement. 

Been to a few wilt sites as the bottom rung of disease intervention and witness too many bad calls from the "experts". Four dead giants resulting from misdiagnosed disease and therapeutic applications of the wrong agent, no liability on the part of the state agency, not even an apology. 

First thing I want to do is make life difficult for the field forester, second is stop the relationship between the chemical comapny and our state. 

Taking a break today. Relax a bit. 

The thread impresses me however - upmost ingenuity on the arches, keep it up.


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## Tree Machine

*We're all professionals here*

For the non-contributing readers, they must really appreciate the fact that we're vollying our knowledge and experience for their benefit, our own, and for the betterment and advancement of the arborist industry as a whole. That's what this site is all about and I'm proud to be amongst you guys.

I just took the morning off work today to have a graphic artist in to give me a lesson in using Photoshop, the program that will allow me to resize my 1 meg Hi res. images and crunch them down to a file size that I can transport into arboristsite. I have severel thousand images and enough digital video that I had to recently buy a 120 gig hard drive. Most of my stuff is tree-related and tree gear related. I carry my Nikon to tree sites daily and photodocument any fabrication sessions I have in improving or creating gear. I'm happy to share any of this with all of you. Attached is a shot of the middle size arch, and the big Arch next to one another, for perspective


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## TheTreeSpyder

i didn't say so before, because it wouldn't apply to this device, but they have had "spar-cycles" for quite a while, i've seen one of the advertised uses for them were non-invasive climbing for seed specimen collection in giant pines! i heard of this long before hearing of arborists not using invasive (spurs) tree climbing strategies.

i too enjoy the tossing around, self challenging/testing and evolution of ideas and ideals. i too would like to see any plans for these devices for my own examinations and curiosities. Am also really looking forward to those pix as you sift the best from the multitudes finding the jewels!

i think we should allow these to be sold for an even $200, especially seeing as the Blue Ox has now drifted towards 400, and the larger, newer rendering @1000! Beautiful, simple design and leveraged, balancing!

Thanx guys!


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## Tree Machine

*More log arch images*

The reason the arches excite me so much is that they're CHEAP, compared to a crane truck, and they don't take up much space. You move them around by hand and you don't need a plate or CDL to put them legally on the road.

I ordered this big one, the T-40 tractor Arch. When the trucking company got it to town, they called. I had em bring it right to my jobsite.

OK, this next image I'm sizing to 6 x 5 to see how it comes out. This is the T-40 tractor arch, over top of a Blue Ox for size reference.


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## Tree Machine

*Log Arch pics*

This image was from a year ago when the arch was brand new. I titles the shot 'two means' because it shows two options, both of which will move a log.

Just coincidentally, I had to rent that piece of machinery a few days ago as I had to take down a massive pin oak, 52" DBH and I wanted the lower trunk sections for milling into lumber. The arch will only do 42" diameter. I rented the 'lull' and though it was fun to drive and move the logs, it cost almost $400 for the day's rental. (ps, I actually hired some help on this job!) Normally, my takedowns are less than 42" in diameter. Monster pin oak was a horse of a different color for me. Let me know if you're having problems opening these images. Tree Machine


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## Dan Flinn

So, Tree Machine, did I understand that you move these over the road? 

As for the wheels and spindles, I found some at Northern Tool that come complete spindle, bearings, etc and you can use an automobile tire on them.

Dan


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## Tree Machine

*Roadworthy Log Arches???*

Yes, you heard it right. The big one is roadworth, highwayworthy, etc. and comes standard with a 2-5/16" ball coupling. The first day I got it last Winter I took it out logless and got it up to 70 MPH, just to see how well it towed. Then I took it into a parking lot. There was a light dusting of snow so I tried doing a bunch of power slides to see what it would take to get it to fishtail. Handled pretty well I must say. Of course you wouldn't do such things, but I'm sort of big on field-testing gear.

The middle size arch is also roadworthy, but not highway worthy; not with the tires that come on it standard, anyway. You could put trailer tires on it (standard 4 lug) and take it at higher speeds. The axle assembly is heavy-duty and oversized, and the standard, low pressure balloon-type turf tires are intended to be low impact on lawns and to be able to crawl over things like uneven terrain, root and stone protrusions, curbs, etc. I tow logs down the street with it frequently to get them to my milling site, or if someone down the street wants the firewood, I'll arch the log over to where he wants the firewood and dice it up there. The middle-size arch was originally designed to be towed behind an ATV for selective, low impact harvesting in a forest setting, and for reclaiming loggage after forest fire. It comes with a 2" ball hitch coupling, but that can be instantly removed (standard Reese hitch receiver technology) and a pintle put in its place.

The small arch, I would_push_ down the street, but even though I HAVE towed it behind my chipper short distances (got a good picture of this 'train'), I wouldn't recommend thisunless Like me that day, you're just going down the street to the next job. It'll only take a 14 or 16" diameter logs, less than 1,000 lbs. You can push that by hand with ease.

Attached is a shot of me towing severel red cedar logs down the street using the winch system, rather than the tongs.


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## murphy4trees

Be careful.... Trailers fishtail when they are tail heavy... 
I'd like to set up a winch system and a trailer hitch for mine.
I was also thinking a hand brake would be nice and some sort of cradle system for moving brush....
Any suggestions would be appreciated. ie what kind of hand winch and where to buy it.. I was thinking Granger..
I'll post some more pics and get log measurements for wieght estimates when I get the work.
Thanks and God Bless,
Daniel


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## Tree Machine

*Fishtailing with log arches??*

Agreed, and good point about rear-heavy trailerage having the potential to fishtail. In fact I have a good buddy who was towing a trailer upon which he was transporting twenty-foot 2x 12's using an 8 foot trailer. At about 45 MPH the trailer started doing this S -action. By the time he got on the brakes (about instantly) the load had thrown his van out of control and he dove it into small ditch.

Yes, the idea to towing ANYTHING is to have tongue weight. If you're using the arches and moving logs around by hand, as you will be doing 90% of the time (exp. w/ thesmall and middle size arches) you hook up as DIRECT center middle as possible. If you hook the middle size arch up to your truck, you want to offset the tongs (or winch cable) to make the log, and hence coupler, tongue-heavy. 

Since the log, once you hook the off-centered thing onto the truck, you need to then support, or cradle the log with a sling, like a whoopie sling would work well. you need to lash it down. I think he's engineered a chain support. anyway, see the attached pic to see what I'm talking about.


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## xander9727

What is the price range on these arches? Several people own them but no one is saying what they paid for them. I want to know who paid the least so I get the best deal as well. Makes sense to me at least. Is there a secret hand shake I need to know or a password? Somebody speak up! I want to be a cool guy too.


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## Tree Machine

*How to get an arch or three*

You ask if there is a secret handshake, or a password? Well, believe it or not there IS a secret password. Memorize this word, and then swallow your computer monitor.

The word is 'Treesome'. You're going to click on this hotlink, www.futureforestry.com and you're going to take 15 seconds to type these words: 

Send me info on the fearsome treesome. Tree Machine wants me
to be cool.

This will get you on track. Make sure you provide your mailing address because you'll be getting a video, pricing info and such.

The 'Treesome' is the latest in the arch evolution. It is ALL THREE arches, big one lifting the middle one, which lifts the small one. See, the big one and the middle one each have winches, and these are used to hoist the next smaller one up into its own self. The couplers affix to one another's necks and litereally, you can roll down the road with all three, all at once, all nested together as a Family Tree(some). Very efficient storing them, too. Getting this ultraversatile rig would definitely make you cool. I saw this setup at the Paul Bunyan Show in Nelsonville, Ohio a couple months back and applauded and bowed to the arch genius as his innovation, _once again_, outdid itself. I just forgot to take a picture.

You can look the planet over to research other arches. There's a few, but the seasoned head engineer at Future Forestry has dedicated his life to building the most effective and bombproof log arches on the planet. You'll see what I mean.


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## murphy4trees

Just look yourself in the mirror and say outloud "I AM COOL"... maybe 50x/day until you really start believing it.... 
And in answer to the $ question...
I paid 750 + tax out the door.. no delivery.
Kinda think I paid too much.... this is a simple design... maybe $200 in materials max. and could be fabricated in less than a day .. And it needs some modifications to make it versatile....
no trailer hitch... AND no winch.. therefore all lifting must be done using the lever.. and it's heavy... One big advantage is that it breaks down and you could put 5 of them in a pick-up bed. another is that it has a hieght and width adjustment... 
Probably shouldn't complain about the money seeing as how it paid for itself on the first job...
God Bless All,
Daniel


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## Tree Machine

*Arches DO pay for themselves*

Man, once I spend money on gear, I don't even_think_ about it. I think about the labor saved every time I use them, about how my back will last years longer because of them and how once you pay for, and employ these devices, you never have to pay for them again. They make your human employees more effective. They shorten the worktime at jobsites, they lessen the amount of sawdust on your jobsite. 

They allow you to easily move into the sawmilling of logs since YOU, Mr Treeguy, no longer need to hunk up perfectly awesome saw logs. You bring your logs to a site, stowe them and call a Woodmizer guy in twice a year. I keep getting paid back for them in sheer efficiency, time and again, but milled boards are WAY more valuable than firewood. Attached is a photo where this pile, and another thick-slabbed maple were sold to ONE GUY, whiche paid for the middle arch and the 1/2 day milling costs in cash. Best of all, I never need to feel the guilt again of bucking up a perfect log into 16" rounds.


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## Eric E.

Here's another idea for low impact log removal. I met a guy yesterday that lives near some Amish folk. He hired them to do some horse skidding. It reminded me of college when we did horse skidding. I thought it may be an option for certian areas.


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## Tree Machine

*Still learning Photoshop... bear with me*

hopefully, this will be a series of 4 images with some text attachhed. This is my first time doing this.


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## Tom Dunlap

I like the look of this attachment system:

http://www.norwoodindustries.com/multimate.htm

Being able to raise 1,500 pounds thirty six inches makes the ATV even more valuable to me.

Tom


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## Tree Machine

*ATV gone tree-ward*

Wow, will ya look at the rigs they put on ATV's! Wow, Dunlap, thanks! Look at all the cool devices we're able to share with all the readers.


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## Tree Machine

*Gang - logging*

Here's a good shot from a job a couple days ago. --TM--


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## Crofter

"Tree Machine You wrote that the Log Rover handles 4000 lbs-10,000 kg. Which? Those are'nt even close to equivalent.(10,000 kg is over 22,000 lb.)"

I think he just fed the figures into the wrong end of the converter....what are you guys doing with that metric stuff anyway? We Canucks have adopted it so you leave it alone.

Frank


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## Newfie

*Frank...*

We have to learn metric so we can figure out new ways to rip off Canadians!


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## Crofter

I will tell Jean Chretien he better watch out eh!

Frank


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## Tree Machine

*Metric conversions.*

I acknowledged that conversion mistake at the top of page 2 of this thread. Two tons, though. A metric ton is 2,200 pounds, so I imagine this log arch will do two tons either way. I do apologize for the error. Check out this pic. Oops, picture is in the next reply:


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## Tree Machine

*Log arch picture*

Here is is:


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## Tree Machine

*And another*

I like this pic. It's a sycamore, which I had quarter-sawn into fat-dimension stair treads.


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## Tree Machine

*Here's another view*

I actually broke the winch cable on this one, but that's easy to fix with a welder. Here, I had to back into a tight area. It was on this log that I learned to always drop the trunk on a couple limbs laid crossways so that you can get the cable under.


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## Tree Machine

*Messed up again.*

Dang it, I'm messin up. Repeat picture. Sorry. Try this one.


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## Tree Machine

No more computer for me. I'm grounding myself.


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## Tree Machine

*Non-conventioonal*

OK, just one more. Here I'm using the arch in a non-conventional manner. No rules here that says you can't.


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## Tree Machine

*As long as we're being non-conventional*

This was one of my more favorite uses with the arch.


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## Tree Machine

*Log arch showdown*

I keep finding shots I forgot I took.


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## Tree Machine

*Non-conventional travel with the arch*

On this day, I found that I could mount the middleweight arch on my chipper and get both the arch AND the chipper to the jobsite together. I'm not recommending you do this, I'm just showing it can be done. I could put the arch on there and secure it in under 20 seconds, remove it in under 10.
FYI: The chipper is jacked up because I had just welded a $2 mount on the back of the chipper. This allowed me to use the chipper's on-board jack, and it worked GREAT.


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## Tree Machine

I'm glad you guys like these pics so much. Much good response.

Here in this pic I had to get a tree off a house. I winched it up with a Maasdam rope winch (come-along) and inched the trunk away with the middleweight arch. Once the crown was away from the gutters we put it on the ground, one click at a time. This may seem slow, as compared to a GCRS, but only took a few minutes to get it to the ground (alone). The next picture is good.


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## Tree Machine

*Arching out fallen, but upright trees w/ the arch*

Hoist it up off the trees it fell on, hook up the arch, walk it out, lower it down. 

This next pic is a really nice one too.


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## Tree Machine

*Standing, fallen trees with the arch*

This is a shot, a long, tall cherry failed at the base and fell toward the house, but hung up in the trees. I set all the ropes and rigging on this one from the ground using the big shot and flyline, also solo.


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## Tree Machine

*Last photo for awhile*

I'm firing out these images to you just before leaving on vacation, so I may not post for a month.

I hope you've enjoyed the images. Now, make it a NewYear's resolution to give your own back a break and make your groundies that much more efficient. Get a set of arches, or all three, AND HARVEST URBAN TIMBER. I'll leave one last post with info on this from two noted authorities; one of the publications is free, the other is to be published this April, 2003.

As for this image, we had gotten the long log onto the ground, when the neighbor stopped over. "Hey, could I get the firewood from you?". I threw a second arch on the log and said, "Yea, help me push it over to your firewood pile." which we did, and then I sunk a Husky 394 into it to make short work of it right there where it needed to be.


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## Tree Machine

*Urban timber resources*

This was one of the two presenters at TCI who spoke on Utilization of municipal trees.


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## Tree Machine

*The link to the log-recycling authorities*

And this is the other guy. Steve Bratkovitch. You can pretty much consider him the Guru, the Grand Poobah, the Illustrious Magistrate of Urban Tree Recycling. I am but one of his disciples.

You all have a great holiday season. I'll see you back in another month. warmer climates call me. --TM--


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## murphy4trees

Treemachine,
I've been off line for the last week and was glad to see all your pics and how effectively and creatively you've been using the arches...
It may be a while before mine sees action again.. so the pics will have to wait...
A couple of weekends ago Big John, a homeowner, and I dropped a pretty big maple.... maybe 65' and 36" DBH. The homeowner had a big hole in he back of his property... very tight access.. no truck of loader could make it.... but we managed to get rid of all the big wood in less than an hour... which more than made up for the extra 2 hours I would have had to drive to get a big truck on and off the job, not to mention loading and disposal..
There was zero damage done to his landscape. This would not have been possible without the machine.
I too wonder at some of the lack of response on some threads.. I guess you have to see this thing in action to really get a sense of what it can do..
Keep up the good work.
God Bless All,
Daniel


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## arborguy

Tree Machine, your pic were great! It really looks like something I could use. But my major dilema is getting the big wood out of the backyard through a narrow gate (approx. 36"). Anybody have bright ideas?


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## treeclimber165

With wood fences, it's sometimes easier to remove a section of fence. I keep a hammer, prybar and nails in my truck for those occassions. Older fences go back up a lot easier with new nails, rather than trying to straighten out the old rusted nails. 
Chain link fences can be more challenging to put back up, I usually just cut everything up smaller(3'-4') and use the small log dolly on those jobs unless something else can be figured out.


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## arborguy

same here, or we'll tow the logs out with our Hiab if the route is fairly straight


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## Tom Dunlap

Chain link fences are a piece of cake to open up. Unbolt the end strap to slack off, pop off the top rails and pull back the fabric. If you need to get in mid span, just unscrew a piece of wire. The vertical strands just corkscrew into place. To re-tension there's a special tool to use. I bought one from a fencing wholesaler. 

My cordless sawzall is the best for cutting nails out of old fence panels. The panels don't get so torqued and chewed up from prying on them. Galvanized deck screws pull things back in place.

Tom


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## johncinco

I finally read through that thread after seeing the topic and ignoring it until now. I certainly think you have the picture resizing and posting down perefect now. Great pics! Great use of wood rather than just firewood. I can see you have the attitue I would have in using that thing, hey if it will work and get the job done, use it. I can think of a 100 things that will come in handy for. Can you just buy one, like the middle size, and not take all three? I can't wait to find one and put it to use. man, no more hauling wood one wheel barrell after another, just haul the log where you want it, and then cut it up. I will still need th ehot tub fo rmy back, just have more time to sit there! JB Of course you wont see this til you get back.


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## ORclimber

I went out to the future forestry test facility(the owners tree farm) this week and these log arches are awesome. I can't believe every tree service doesn't have one or more. The little jr. arch is only $400 and looks like it will pay for itself fast. 1 guy can pack a 16' log up to 14" diameter through a backyard gate. If your cutting/hauling firewood you can cut the wood on the pavement next to your truck, because the arch will hold the log off the ground. I hope to get a jr. this month and add the bigger ones as I can.


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## ORclimber

Created an 8' by 45" black walnut log last week. Too heavy for a bobcat to load, so I called Mark at future forestry to see if he would demonstrate the Hugo. I'll bet the log weighed over 6000# and was in the middle of a muddy construction site. The hugo lifted the log using its 2 winches and carried it around the block behind Mark's Volvo. Not bad for a tool light enough for 3 guys to pick up and move. We set the butt of the log on a rented trailer. After positioning the Hugo in front of the trailer we used the 2 winches to pull the log the rest of the way on. When the walnut buyer saw the log he was grinning ear to ear, after he wrote me a check for $960 I was pretty happy too. I'll never look at removals in the same way.


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## Dan F

I haven't had time to read all the posts yet (just through the first page), but I haven't seen anyone mention a tracked bobcat... 

An 864 with 18" dedicated rubber tracks (not tracks over tires) will have significantly less ground pressure than a man walking. Plus they will easily pick up over 4000 pounds. As long as you have a decent operator and a fairly straight shot in and out, it will work fine. If you tear up the grass, the ground won't be compacted at all, and re-seeding won't be a problem.

Talk to your local dealer about one and get some stats on it to take to the homeowner.

I did see an article in Landscape and Irrigation magazine on how ASV has developed smooth rubber tracks for this type of use. The company that helped to develop them was using them to run over golf course greens. If you can find something like that, that would probably be the best option.

Around here, the tracked skidsteer rents for ~$200/day, probably different where you are.


Dan


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## murphy4trees

Log dolly does it again....
3o" willow log from the backyard out a 5'5" gate... 0 acces with equipment... The big log is 10' long... Also brought out a pine.. Here's the wood all lined up and ready for pick-up... 0 damage to lawn, which was plenty soft.
PLan B was to bring the log truck up the neighbors drive... squeeze it between a rock and a hard place and reach over the fence for the wood, with plenty of chaining....
The log hauler wasn't impressed... and said I was "just too cheap" to buy a skid steer.... "How often do you run into a job like that?" he asked.... Doesn't matter ro me... the thing is easy to store and move and paid for itself on its first job... 0 maintenance fits my busy schedule perfectly.... and just keeping him from rutting up the lawns with long drags saves plenty of time...


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## Tree Machine

Good Job, Daniel! These arches ARE amazing. The very last thing I generally do is drop the trunk. I get everything all cleaned up and chipped and leave the dropping of the trunk for the very last.... because as soon as the arch is hooked up I let my client know he can cut me a check as we'll be leaving soon. 

It used to be HOURS of cutting up a log into 16" rounds, rolling them out, loading up, cleaning up a ton of sawdust, cleaning up the mess trail. Now, it's like WHUMP! and within 10 minutes I'm outta there. Sometimes I just tow it to my next job, park it on the street and proceed into my next tree job. Stands out as pretty good advertising. Here's an image I dug up. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

*Versatility and efficiency*

Did you know it can haul a pile of sawn, stacked and stickered planks as easy as a log? Check this out. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

*Getting through gates*

Getting back to Arborguy's earlier question about getting through gates. I would normally opt for Tom Dunlap's temporary removal of the chain link, or fence panels, but in this little story and image, there was ivy all over the chain link, and was rooted right at the base of the post. Three feet or so was all we had as far as clearance.

As the image shows, my helper and I got the big arch into the back yard by tipping it up sideways and rolling it in on one tire. This was easy.

We hooked the cable around the beautiful, perfect saw log exact middle, so it balanced. Winched it up, and together we pushed the arch and log as far as we could to the fence opening. We placed 4 or 5 of the roundest pieces of smaller diameter limb wood under the log, and lowered the awesome log down onto them. Then we unhooked the cable and turned the arch around _facing the opposite direction_ and hooked the cable back onto the log about 3/4 of the way back. We winched it back up, just up off the back roller pieces. The front of the log was still heavy, but on 'rollers', and we were able to push the log (with the assistance of the backwards-facing arch) to where about a quarter of the log was through the fence opening. We replaced the 'rollers' back under the log, lowered it down and un-cabled it.

Then we tipped the arch sideways and got it out of the back yard, OVER TOP of the log, learning that the big arch is not really all that heavy. With 1/4 of the fore log sticking out of the fence opening, we positioned the log arch butted up to the fence, applied the cable, winched er up, and with the tail of the log on the roller pieces, we were able to pull the log out to where 3/4 of it was now outside the fence opening.

Lower down, reposition the arch back to exact midway on the log, hoist er back up and joy, joy, joy! I wish I had the 'during' and 'after' pictures, but the sun was going down when I took the image shown. It was Winter and the sun sinks fast. It may sound like a bunch of rigamarole, but the whole process took about a half hour, I went home with a check and the satisfaction we all love of being DONE. -TM-


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## murphy4trees

TM,
you're a walking poster for the arch.... i did something similar with three pines going through a small gate by a pool... The pic shows two pines standing in backround and a couple logs on the way out... As I recall, the dolly stayed inside the pool area... once we had the log on rollers on the blacktop, they were small enough to push through by hand and then roll to the side.
I wish my dolly had a hitch for trailering and a winch... won't be hard to fabricate... just haven't gotten around to it...
If anybidy wants one, I can get one shipped for $1000 + shipping or you could pick it up here in the Philly area... Just one left


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## Tree Machine

Y'mean like a climbing poster child? Heh, heh. I'm like you, Daniel (compliment to me... in that if you've got a tool that is truly remarkable, ya wanna tell all your peers about it.

In this next takedown image, I took out the top, cleaned it up, set my tires and plywood and thick rubber matting ( a favorite little trick of mine for impact zone protection) and started pushing off 16" rounds.

When the trunk was standing at 17 feet, I came down (rope still secured up top), pulled out the plywood, tires and rubber matting (actually, conveyor belt material) and positioned them 17 feet, or so, away from the trunk base. I repositioned a couple of rounds in line with the fell. Then I called someone on my free firewood list and told him to come get some big-diameter, primo hard maple.

I dropped that sucker WHUMP! My finesse experiment that day, since my helper called whining that it was raining and he didn't want to work (it drizzled) was to do _exactly_ as the image shows- drop it so the butt end was elevated, and the top end at ground level.

It went perfectly, I backed the arch over top of the log and took this shot. I attached the winch cable and ony had to crank it up a couple inches! 

I went ahead and hauled the beauty to my log stow site where I Woodmizer a couple of times a year. When I got back, firewood guy was there loading up. I helped finish him load and stood in my own amazement that only three hours had transpired since I started.

Morale to the story, every one of us should feel the exhilaration of making $280 an hour. This a WAY not normal for me, but I liked it. The lawyer got home and praised me on and on for not slaughtering his lawn, and happily cut me a check. -TM-


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## murphy4trees

Bet you get some attention driving down the road trailering that rig. 280/hr sounds sweet too.... I usually only make that when plowing snow...
Here's the after shot on the pines removal.... all lined up and ready for the log loader...


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## Tree Machine

*Togetherness*

There's no question you get looked at driving down the road with a mondo log on your tail. I was rollin by a fast-food joint once, saw all the trucks from another Tree Service there, and just couldn't resist the opportunity pull through the drive-through and get a small order of fries. Talk about looks!

Your last image inspired me, Murph, as one of the many benefits of having an arch is that you can move the logs to a place where they can be dealt with more to your benefit and efficiency, rather than chunk em up and haul em out in multiple firewood pieces.

Since I break the first rule of climbing by working alone (Oh... Hi Rocky) ahem.. good thing that's a rule and not a law.
Anyway, efficiency is the name of the game in my business. The arches BECOME employees, though without all the payroll and workman's comp issues (which ARE law). 

In the two images I've lumped together, employee #1 and his log is actually pulling me down a hill to a waiting employee #2. In the second image. Employee #2 has a whole buttload of logs bundled up, ready for transport. -TM-


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## SilverBlue

Nice equipment, love those haulers, got to crank up the welder and make a few.


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## Greg

Murph, 
How big of a log will your arch take? Does it use tongs? Who makes it, and how much does it weigh? 
Greg


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## murphy4trees

I believe it was marketted as "the ultimate log dolly" and is no longer in production... Uses tongs and leverage of the long handle to do the lifting...
We easily moved a 1500-2000 lb oak log on the first job... and I think it could handle much more than that using a winch... the only apparent limit to size is diameter... the small tongs can bite up to about 30"... after that we tried big tongs but they are too long to get mcuh clearance... maybe need to get a middle sized pair.... a winch would cure that too.
The machine probably weighs about 150-200 lb. I used to break it down to move it ( into 5 sections), but now I easily load it whole into the pick-up by myself... wheels fisrt, leaving the handle out the back with a marker...
And best of all it goes over a million hours between oil changes


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## DadF

I can see some applications that were well thought out and beautifically executed. Just a ? though-if you're towing this over the road don't you need lights, plates,etc. 
I'd have to do some checking but something tells me that I wouldn't be able to use a "naked" one here over the road.


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## murphy4trees

In Pennsylvania I believe this would be considerred an implement of hubandry and would be exempt from tag and lights requirements as long as the unit did not originally come with lights.... I have no plan to put it on the road anytime soon... When I get a hitch I'll use it for moving heavy loads that can't be moved by hand.... and let the log loader get rid of the wood... 
I do like the idea of trailering a load of smaller pieces.... maybe find someone to buy a load or two of hardwoods for firewood.


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## Tree Machine

*Image for my Minnesota friends*

A cop here told me as long as the towed device doesn't obscure the vehicles tail lights, there are no need for tail lights on the towed device.

I usually put a red flag on the log if I'm going on any main street, and in 3 years never been pulled over. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

*forgot the image*

Whoops, here's the image for my northern friends. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

*adding a winch to Murph's log arch.*

Hey, Murph

If you're considering adding a winch to your dolly, this one, a dual-speed, hand winch is very awesome. -TM-


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## Lumberjack

The only thing I see as a draw back is like a job I just did. I had 14 18ft sticks of pine. They ranged from 1'6" (2) to over 3'. It would take a long time to be able to move all the bigger logs one at a time across town. 


Carl


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## Tree Machine

I can see that. 

You could arch the logs one at a time onto a trailer. Haven't seen that done, but it could work. 

The image is of ganging a bunch of logs to where they needed chunking into firewood. -TM-


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## Lumberjack

I thought of that but you couldn't roll the arch over the first layer of logs with very much ease. Just a thought.


Carl


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## Dan F

TM-
What makes that winch a dual speed? I see only one speed- as fast as your hand can crank it! The different rated line pulls are a simple physics thing. All winches are stronger on the first wrap, you have more leverage. The following wraps require more leverage, thus less strength... I didn't see a way to switch gears, so unless you know something that I didn't see, it's a one speed winch....

Carl-
If you make the outside width of the arch as wide as the trailer bed, you should be able to run more than one layer of logs onto the trailer. Especially if you can adjust the hieght of the arch. Contain the logs with keepers in the bed that won't allow the log(s) to move further apart than the inner width of the arch, so you can run the wheels of the arch up beside them and put more on top. If you can come up with some sort of system to raise the sides of the trailer bed up as the hieght of the log stack increases (i.e. progressively build it up with 2" stock or something) you will gain some room that way. I don't have a green log chart anywhere that I know of to reference, but something tells me it wouldn't be long before you maxed out a 6 ton trailer. 

You will need 2 vehicles anyway, one for the arch, one for the trailer, so why not just cut the trips in half, and use both at the same time? Or would you make 2 trips in the beginning (one with the arch, one with the trailer and tractor), and 2 in the end, and just use one truck? It's getting late, and maybe I'm not thinking straight either, I dunno...


Dan


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## ORclimber

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *I thought of that but you couldn't roll the arch over the first layer of logs with very much ease.
> Carl *



It could be done. The Hugo I saw in use had 2 winches one electric, one hand powered. You wouldn't have to roll the log all the way onto the trailer. Set up a ramp for the arch wheels to to climb, use the winch to pull the arch and log so the butt could be set down on top of the 1st layer. Unhook, use the arch to grab the back of the log and winch the arch/log forward until the log is the rest of the way onto the trailer.

When you were done loading logs, the arch could be winched up on top the the load and strapped down. No need for 2 trips. 

Those winches have a lot of pull. Marks volvo got stuck in the mud pulling out the black walnut log I mentioned earlier in this thread. He ran the winch cable over the car to a tree and pulled everything out (log, arch, and car). That's why when he used a picture of that operation in his national advertising the caption read "clean log, had to wash the car"


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## geofore

*chart/ weight*

Green logs? Go to the woodweb and use the calculator to get an estimate of weight. You have to go look at the job before you do it so take the time to do a few measurements while you are there then use the woodweb's calculator to get an estimate of what you can haul before you get to the job and load too much on the trailer. The fines here are pretty steep for overloads.


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## Greg

The arches are great tools, I am about to buy a four wheeler from my brother, and will then pick up an arch to move logs with. But only to the curb. The arch is not the tool to be moving logs all over town one at a time, and loading a trailer with it I think would be good if you only have a few, but a bunch of logs requires a log loader truck. I look at the arch as a poor mans bobcat, but better in cases where you are working with valuable landscapes. 

When I can get down 17ft sections of pine at least 4 sections the pulp wood guy will come pick them up for $50. If I can give him a full load he'll take it for free --about 15-20 logs. I have a small log loader but where I dump the fee is $60, so If I can make that much wood disappear for $50 and I don't even have to truck it across town I'm the winner. With my sized truck (18ft dump box) I can charge tree guys $300 for a full load of what ever, only cost me $60 to get rid of, so it rarely makes sense for me to do anything but take it to the dump to be turned into mulch. There is a saw mill that will take most kinds of wood for free, but I have to spend about an hour driving to get there and back -- I'd rather pay the $60. The larger loaders in town chage $400 for a full load, and they can hold about 50K lbs where I can only hold 33k lbs. 

Another thing guys are doing here in town that don't have chippers or trucks to move the logs & debris is roll off dumpsters. 
The guy who owns the saw shop I use just started a roll off biz that I've seen lots of tree guys using. He will drop off a dumpster (looks to be about 18 long x 8 wide x 4 or 6 high --2 sizes) for around $300, load it with what ever tree debirs you can get into it (has large barn type doors so you can walk stuff to the back) and he will come pick it up when ever you call.

When you are doing a large job where you are going to be disposing of a large amount of logs you need to build in about 3-400 just for the log disposal, and tell the customer, if they want to save on the job they can keep the wood, other wise don't kill yourself humping logs in and out of trailers all over town, call a loader. --but an arch looks like a great way to get it to the curb.
Greg


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## Lumberjack

I like the wood web site. I think that I am going to make a chart similar to the green log chart, except wider (more values) and more specific to the trees around here. I had a thread about making an arch for the trailer similar to the trailer they use to move propane tanks, ecept it piviots, but that go shot down on the tread, but I still have hope.


Carl


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## Tree Machine

Well said, OR. 


> What makes that winch a dual speed? ... I didn't see a way to switch gears, so unless you know something that I didn't see, it's a one speed winch....



Attached is a larger version of that winch, complete with arrows 'n numbers 'n if you look closely at the number of cogs, their variant sizes, and which aligns with which when the crank handle is switched from high (speed gear) to low (power gear) , with a resulting reversal in crank direction, switching from one to the other).

See the picture. You will get it. Amazingly simple design; amazingly effective. -TM-


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## murphy4trees

TM,
My log dolly NEEDS a winch like that... any idea how much and where I can get one... Also any mounting recomendations???
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Tree Machine

*VERSATILITY to your tool aresenal*

Greg, above, makes some really good points; basically, what means are available to you, and what are the economics.

A key theme here is OPTIONS. Different jobs require different methods of debris removal. The arch(es) is (are) not the Holy Grail of log removal, but they're a powerful tool of efficiency, especially if your options are limited, and especially if you're doing a lot of back yard removal work where low impact is important to either you or your client.

In this next photo I had to drop a log alongside a firepit to be used as seating. I had to climb the arch over top of another log to get it in there, which was not a problem.

Murph, as far as WHERE to get the two-speed winch, Fulton Winch is located in the north of the U.S. I'd call the manufacturer, or someone who deals in Fulton products, like a hitch or trailer shop. As far as mounting, that's a question for the guy who's going to be doing your welding and retro-fit. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

*Roadworthy hickory*

Someone awhile back was asking if these arches were roadworthy. They do OK, this size, anyway, and there's no legal requirement for light hookups since the device doesn't block the taillights of the truck.

The lightning-struck tree won't offer me more than firewood out of this log. There's evidence of a lot of seperation between annual rings resultant of its unfortunate blast. I have a feeling the lumber, upon drying, would fall apart. Too bad. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

Here I got into a log that was just too big for thew arch. I had to rent a lull for the day.

Stuck my buddy, Tom, in the picture for size reference. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

*When big is too big*

Driving gear like this down neighborhood streets just kinda gives you a testosterone rush. -TM-


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## Tree Machine

Someone e-mailed me and said the last two images won't open. Lemme try again.


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## Tree Machine

Try again....


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## Tree Machine

...and again. -TM-


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## John Paul Sanborn

I've used a highloader before too, and they are very usefull for packing a truck as full as possible, from all 3 sides.

You can get material handling grapples for them too.


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## Tree Machine

*abusing heavy gear*

Yea, if they just didn't rent for $400 a day -TM-


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## Lumberjack

I used a rough terrain forklift on a job a coupla weeks ago. We had a basket to go with it. It worked well and it was fun. I wish I had a tool carrier version like Bobcat's version. I think that would be the "shizznit" (Butch)


Carl


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## Matildasmate

*resizeing pic's*



Tree Machine said:


> I have some very descriptive pictures of these arches in action, however they're all shot high resolution and the file size is too big for Arboristsite.com to take. I know, I know,.. crunch em down first. I haven't learned how to do that yet, but for now, I'll just share more experience with my three rather incredible devices.
> 
> Try this program Tree Machine , heres the thread http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=61846


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## Matildasmate

*my log hauler*



Tree Machine said:


> Treesome.... sounds like a sniglet for a threesome involving trees! The latest arch concept is this: Three Arches; Junior, Middleweight and MacDaddy, Configured together as a unit. The Fearsome Treesome.
> 
> I actually SAW this, just a few weeks ago. Future Forestry just got the first one built less than a month ago. Mark Havel was set up and showing his lates improvement for the first time, at Bunyanfest, in Nelsonville, OH. Three weeks ago! You guys, I have photos...
> 
> The Fearsome Treesome,... it's like your arching future is right there. Mark has built these arch-tools so that they 'nest'; the middle one quick-couples to the Jr. Arch below it, and then the MacDaddy hoists the two of those up into its own self. It is a-mazing. It is a rock solid system, impressive and versatile. I guess 'Versatile' is the biggest word. Once you buy them, you don't schlepp them all around together all the time; you choose your arch(es) (usually Jr. And Middleweight Champ) depending on the job. But the 'versatile' part is, you CAN get all three easily, anywhere (Mark, by the way, towed the Treesome behind a truck, ON THE HIGHWAY, all the way from Oregon to Ohio!).
> 
> Anyway, that creature DOES exist. I knowed it, cuz I see'd it. Future Forestry will be at TCI the first weekend in November. He'll have the Treesome there. He also has an optional MOTORIZED WINCH for the MacDaddy Arch, for you ultraluxury crowd. See him at the show, otherwise, the website address is :
> http://www.futureforestry.com


 Here's my log hauler . Cheers MM


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