# BONIDE (imidacloprid) Elm Application? [BORERS?]



## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 3, 2011)

*Lets start off by saying I hope this product works on Elm borers, I have a huge problem with my elm trunk fluxing from borers I think. Label claims it works for "bronze birch borers" I bought it for my leaf miner problem, but now realized how bad of a borer problem I may have. Not sure if it only protects the new growth leafs or hard wood too? The directions say to apply 2-3 month's before the expected infestation begins, but also best applied during early spring to early fall. Would you say half a dose early fall and then another half dose in early spring instead of one full annual dose?? I'm not sure if the ground will be thawed enough to apply 3 month's before early spring haha but if I apply early fall then will it still protect more than 3 month's from early fall? Because spring is defniately more then 3 month's from early fall... which is when it gets attacked.*


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## derwoodii (Aug 3, 2011)

Giday PF it should help your trouble. I have had good results from imidacloprid based products on Elms leaf beetle and discussion today from others say soil application works well for them on borers etc 

Note, some talk that imidacloprid is related to bee colony die off CCD so be mind full of over use or local bees.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 3, 2011)

derwoodii said:


> Giday PF it should help your trouble. I have had good results from imidacloprid based products on Elms leaf beetle and discussion today from others say soil application works well for them on borers etc
> 
> Note, some talk that imidacloprid is related to bee colony die off CCD so be mind full of over use or local bees.


 
GREAT!! So it protects hardwood as well obviously? I'm not battling the leaf beetle it's the miner. 

I am actually deathly allergic to bees, so it's a win win situation.


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## PJM (Aug 9, 2011)

Note, it is a federal violoation to use an insectide in a way that is inconsistent with its label. What are trying to treat again? First you say borers but then you say miners. Which is it? If this product is not labeled for the insect you are intending to control then I would suggest you find an insectide that is registered for that insect. Also note that most homeowner formulations of imidicloprid are limited by their label to one application per year.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 9, 2011)

It's labeled for both! But it says "bronze birch borers" not "elm borers" or just "borers" then again those just might be the most common type of borers AMONG all tree variety's this formula covers for marketing reasons...


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## Castenea (Aug 12, 2011)

Is your problem Slime flux (a bacterial complex), borers, or Leaf miners?

Imidicloprid works on leafminers, many borers (clear wing moths are a major exception), Aphids, and adelgids. As a general rule Lepidotera and Acachnidae (mites, tick and spiders) are not killed by imidicloprid. 

Before using any pest control product be sure you have the pest properly identified. Slime flux, while unsightly, does not endanger the health or stability of the tree.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 12, 2011)

Castenea said:


> Is your problem Slime flux (a bacterial complex), borers, or Leaf miners?
> 
> Imidicloprid works on leafminers, many borers (clear wing moths are a major exception), Aphids, and adelgids. As a general rule Lepidotera and Acachnidae (mites, tick and spiders) are not killed by imidicloprid.
> 
> Before using any pest control product be sure you have the pest properly identified. Slime flux, while unsightly, does not endanger the health or stability of the tree.


 
*Well, I have leaf miners for sure. Here is a picture of a leaf on the tree from month's ago (whole thing is crispy now):*





*I also have this unidentified pest (maybe mites?):*





*As far as the trunk borers and fluxing goes, I think the borers are CAUSING the fluxing. The flux leaves a strip right down the trunk to the ground, I believe it is acidic and eats away at the bark. Here is the same spot last year (does not appear to be a wound just straight bark):*





*Now here is the same spot this year, looking horrible:*


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## Castenea (Aug 15, 2011)

Unsure what your first picture is. Your diagnosis may be correct.

Your second picture is due to Eriophyid mites

Slime flux is a multi-year phenomenon. The infection occoured many years ago, and will likely last the life of the tree with some years being worse than others.


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## Loraxguy (Aug 15, 2011)

*misapplied herbicides and learning to live with it*

If we are even able to make a dent in cleaning up the enviorment we need to start where we live. All the photo's issues I saw are not worth treating. Make sure you know what your treating for and what product do use if at all. "I think doesn't do it" 
Leaves having issues right now is not surprising and since in a lot of areas they are starting to show their age, having been out all summer getting beat up. Leaf gall insects-live with it and do a very good leaf pick in the fall, slime flux no harm to the tree and micros can't live in it so chill out, leaf skeltonizer -good leaf clean up in the fall


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 15, 2011)

Castenea said:


> Unsure what your first picture is. Your diagnosis may be correct.
> 
> Your second picture is due to Eriophyid mites
> 
> Slime flux is a multi-year phenomenon. The infection occoured many years ago, and will likely last the life of the tree with some years being worse than others.


 
I am almost certain it's leaf miner if you saw what it looks like weeks later you would understand.

I was also told mites at one point. 

I wish I knew WHY it was fluxing because it is getting much worse as time progresses and I'm almost certain the acidicness is eating the lower bark below the areas. I just keep hitting it with the hose. 


*Here are some more examples of damage, these are what I believe to be borer holes in the deadwood of the largest wound??:*


























*There is this dead beetle on the opposite side of the tree, MUCH larger than any hole (like a huge bumble bee)*


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 15, 2011)

Loraxguy said:


> If we are even able to make a dent in cleaning up the enviorment we need to start where we live. All the photo's issues I saw are not worth treating. Make sure you know what your treating for and what product do use if at all. "I think doesn't do it"
> Leaves having issues right now is not surprising and since in a lot of areas they are starting to show their age, having been out all summer getting beat up. Leaf gall insects-live with it and do a very good leaf pick in the fall, slime flux no harm to the tree and micros can't live in it so chill out, leaf skeltonizer -good leaf clean up in the fall


 
Dude 60%+ of the tree is crispy right now, the trees photosynthesis system is taking a huge hit/loss. I would say its worth treating, this is an extremely rare Camperdown Elm.


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## PJM (Aug 16, 2011)

Can you upload some more recent photos of the tree to show us what you are seeing? That might better help us to understand the situation.

Note that the photo of the leaf with the unidentified pest that you think is a mite is a leaf gall wasp and are more an aesthetic problem than a tree health problem. The large dead beetle in another photo is a pupal casing from a cicada.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 16, 2011)

PJM said:


> Can you upload some more recent photos of the tree to show us what you are seeing? That might better help us to understand the situation.
> 
> Note that the photo of the leaf with the unidentified pest that you think is a mite is a leaf gall wasp and are more an aesthetic problem than a tree health problem. The large dead beetle in another photo is a pupal casing from a cicada.


 
You sir are very helpful! See someone on this forum already recommend me Talstar Pro and I had to return it because of the danger and now I have this BONIDE that was recommended to me. I read on wiki that the cicada CAN cause damage to trees?


*This is what most of the tree looks like by the middle of summer:*


























*I caught this bugger last year while picking out deadwood from a wound:*


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## Loraxguy (Aug 17, 2011)

*Elm*

I really won't worry about the leaf issues this late in the season. Do a good fall cleanup and you should have less of the problem.

I don't think the product you are using will work on the-larva- borer in the photo. I would bet that this borer doesn't feed right under the bark where the xlyem and phoem are located, but is in much deeper and there for the product won't work.


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 17, 2011)

Loraxguy said:


> I really won't worry about the leaf issues this late in the season. Do a good fall cleanup and you should have less of the problem.
> 
> I don't think the product you are using will work on the-larva- borer in the photo. I would bet that this borer doesn't feed right under the bark where the xlyem and phoem are located, but is in much deeper and there for the product won't work.


 
Well I want to make sure it is protected for next year, it’s a very ugly problem. This is not just another ordinary elm, this is a genetically grafted tree with almost a 10ft trunk circumference! It cannot reproduce from seed the ONLY way to obtain one is to graft the top off another camperdown onto a wych elm, and this specimen is the largest of its kind known to the internet at this time.

Can you identify or help me treat the borer? Thanks

PS- This trees photo is on wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulmus_glabra_'Camperdownii'

^It says "Unmaintained Camperdown Elm, Gardner MA 01440" below the photo.


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## PJM (Aug 19, 2011)

Your enthusiasm and passion are clear, but you must not let that get in the way of making sound and rational decisions about your management options. The photos of the leaves show damage from elm leafminers. Most leafminers have little affect on plant health and treatment decisions are usually made based upon plant appearance. Cultural practices to promote plant health generally should be considered first. These include: Proper watering, using organic mulch, avoiding soil compaction or disturbance, sanitation (raking and disposing of diseased leaves), and making the area more attractive to birds which would prey upon this and other insects. If you decide that these cultural practices are insufficient and that the tree's aesthetics warrant chemical controls, you can use a soil drench of imidicloprid applied in the fall. Follow the product label and be sure it is labeled for control of your pest.

Good luck!!


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## PinkFloydEffect (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks! Well I already have the BONIDE so I might as well use it. I have been using a more organic mulch then you buy prepackaged, it's from the gravel yard down the road they said it's made from a pine mix and undyed. The gas company found a leak in their pipe about 5 feet away from the base of the tree and dug a 3 foot deep trench right down one side of the tree, broke roots with a "tear" instead of a clean cut, and then compacted the crap out of it with a backhoe during the fill back I'm pissed. So would you recommend putting some bird bathes under the tree to attract birds? That way I am not feeding them just attracting them to where the food is? I think the largest problem is the fluxing coming from various wounds!


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## PinkFloydEffect (Mar 20, 2012)

I applied the Bonide today since we have had such a warm few weeks, the circumference is about 9'6" so I mixed up 114 FL.oz. in 3 gallons of water (38oz. per gallon). I did 3 rings around the tree, one at 1ft, one at about 2.5ft and another around about 4ft. Well see if the leaf miners come back this year!


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## PinkFloydEffect (Jun 23, 2012)

*Results:*

[video=youtube_share;uRPtToEFWbQ]http://youtu.be/uRPtToEFWbQ?hd=1[/video]


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## Raintree (Jun 24, 2012)

PFE, What a shame with all that root zone damage on such a nice tree.

A few thoughts; The tree is now stressed, think about protecting against DED.

Chlorpyrifos treatments for Bark Beetles, prune out deadwood for sanitation.

Increase mulch bed, maintain soil moister & fertilize.

Good luck!


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## PinkFloydEffect (Jun 24, 2012)

Raintree said:


> PFE, What a shame with all that root zone damage on such a nice tree.
> 
> A few thoughts; The tree is now stressed, think about protecting against DED.
> 
> ...



It is actually healthier this year after that backhoe then all previous years! The mulch bed is 4ft out on all sides a few inches thick with a layer of farm composted manure under the mulch bed. 

I have started pruning out deadwood all over the tree, removed several hundred pounds of deadwood. I'm thinking it is already battling DED with all that flagging, I'm not licensed for injection unfortunately, but can probably piece the system together at a hardware store. Is Chlorpyrifos an injection or a systemic root drench?

--Is your profile picture a Camperdown?!


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## Raintree (Jun 24, 2012)

Bark Beetle info...Native Elm Bark Beetle Control

Chlorpyrifos is a restricted use pesticide, not be available without license.

Your Drenching w/Merit should work check the label, I think you'll need a higher rate.

The mulch ring needs to be extended to drip edge, 4ft is not cutting it.

My profile pic. is a Raintree, Albizia saman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## PinkFloydEffect (Apr 14, 2014)

*Going to try something different this year I picked up Garant 2F,* *I think we did it around this time last year however this is the first week we have had with temperatures above freezing so far.





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