# Tree Felling Direction Of Falling Question ?



## Robert11 (Apr 27, 2013)

Hello,

Retired Engineer, and I guess I have thought about the following a bit, and realize I don't understand what happens.

Would like to, so thought I'd post here, and if I appear really dumb, I apologize. Still, asking questions is always the best way to learn.

Have a chainsaw, used mainly for small limbs and brush.
Have never taken down a tree, but was wondering:

Let's say that the tree is assumed for this discussion to be a perfect uniform cylinder.
If so, the weight (vector) then can be considered to go right down the center.
No problem here.

All the how-to felling sites say the front cut, which defines the direction one wants the tree to fall, should be no more than 30 % of the tree diameter deep.

So, the weight vector, being at 50 % of the diameter is then to the rear of this cut.

Then the Back-Cut is made.

Even leaving an inch or two for the "hinge," it seems that the weight vector would still definitely be to the rear of the Hinge.

(it would have to go the 70 % of the diameter forward to meet up with front cut, minus the hinge thickness)

And, thus, the tendency of the tree would be to rotate Backwards, not to the front as desired. 
True ? Assume No wedges or ropes to help determine the direction of falling.

This would appear to be true even though there is a large wedge taken out from the front, and just a narrow sawblade width Back-Cut ?

I have no doubt that I am wrong, but what am I missing, please in thinking about this ?

I've looked at a zillion videos and on-line diagrams, but none seem to explain this at all.

Is it that the tree cuts are ALWAYS made to have the tree fall in the direction of its normal leaning ?

And if a different fall direction is required, then one uses wedges, ropes, or some of those other "fancy and technical" cutting techniques ?

Thanks,
Bob


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## twochains (Apr 27, 2013)

Sounds like you have the theory, now it is time to try it out. Is this a trick post?? If not...there are tons of Pros on this site that will help you out. Cheers!


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## northmanlogging (Apr 27, 2013)

In a physics sense you nailed it, however its a rare day that you will come across a perfect cylinder of a tree, limb weight, lean, wind, all have an effect on where the tree wants to go.

Face cuts of 30% are really more of a guide line. A little more or less all depends on what the tree is telling you and how good you are at matching up your cuts... But 30% is a good starting point.

Wedges and ropes are tools in the faller's tool box (I.E. pockets) much like any of the fancy siswheel, dutchmen, block, humboldt, saginaw, conventional, swedish fish dance... They are all just things to help get the tree on the ground where you want it to land. Wedges help overcome that bit of back lean or the "perfect tree" and gives it a little lift off the stump, thereby tipping the balance in the desired direction.

Some folk will make the claim of not using wedges, different timber different situation, me I carry wedges and use them a lot.


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## twochains (Apr 27, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> In a physics sense you nailed it, however its a rare day that you will come across a perfect cylinder of a tree, limb weight, lean, wind, all have an effect on where the tree wants to go.
> 
> Face cuts of 30% are really more of a guide line. A little more or less all depends on what the tree is telling you and how good you are at matching up your cuts... But 30% is a good starting point.
> 
> ...



Very well answered northman! 

(hey did you get my pm?)


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## 056 kid (Apr 27, 2013)

Throw the engineering stuff out the window. Every tree is different. I cant tell you how many times I have sawed up what I was sure was a heavy back leaner just to watch my axe handle drop fast as I was finishing up the back. That's what makes it fun and interesting thouugh.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 27, 2013)

If you fall a telephone pole on level ground with no wind with a 30% face, about 60% of the way thru the back cut the tree will follow gravity, sit back on your bar and probably just stand there, just as you figured. A wedge would keep the back cut open and make it follow the face. The pro-fallers probably have little experience with this, but I practically have a Ph.D. in pinched bars:biggrin:


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## roberte (Apr 27, 2013)

well i dont know if i would throw all the engineering stuff out the window. a lot of phyisics are involved and wedges are a good thing. i know i dont know it all but its taken a lot of trial & error in 34 years of saws to get to this point. 
just my opinion, but sometimes the smaller trees are more of a pita than some of the bigger ones


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## bitzer (Apr 27, 2013)

What you are explaining is a stob or a straight stem with no top. Its tough to get them to tip because there is nothing (like the top) prompting them to move. I had a willow stob that was 6 ft on the stump last summer. I had it sawed up all the way with the hinge at the 50-60% mark. It just sat there so I gave it a little push with my hand and it wiggled. A good push and it was over. I was alone, but couldn't help but laugh. That's kind of what you are talking about, but like 056 Kid said that situation rarely exists in the world. I personally think of a tree in terms of physics being involved or at least did when I got started. Now its kind of second nature. You saw a deeper face if you need to or wedge or swing it or whatever. It all depends on what the tree gives you and what you want to do with it. Learning how to really use the tree and then saving it out is the challenge. Anyone can dump them. Experience. Give it a try. Something small. Play around.


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## DavdH (Apr 27, 2013)

*It's all physics*, vectors, just interpreting all the forces takes a super computer with some interpolation of parameters (fallers judgement usually from lots of experience). I've cut tall vertical timber and sometimes it is sky bound, some outside force gets things moving be it wind or a wedge. All the face, hinge, back cut are control forces, gravity is the only constant. Now go tell a 70 year old faller he knows physics and vectors and you get replies like some of above, it is an engineers dream, and that is just getting them down, get into the yarding especially cable systems and a good engineering back ground can save your butt. Bucking is the same and it is learning the forces and interpreting them before ya get hurt or pinched.


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## Oldtimer (Apr 27, 2013)

Gravity works, but wind is a shifty character.


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## roberte (Apr 27, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Gravity works, but wind is a shifty character.



Ahh yes, the two great equalizers


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 27, 2013)

....and remember its not the wood that was cut but the wood that was left that helps determine direction of fall .....if done properly


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## RandyMac (Apr 27, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ....and remember its not the wood that was cut but the wood that was left that helps determine direction of fall .....if done properly



explain in detail.
Personally, I think that statement is baloney.
The hinge helps, the face cut does the work.


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## Woody912 (Apr 27, 2013)

as others have said, if you have cut a stem with the top completely gone and it is a straight tree, they just want to sit there just as you postulate. I used to think wedges were cheatin', now they're my best friend and life guard. If you get really bored, look up the OSHA specs for moving a backleaner with wedges. Can't believe OSHA does anything useful


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 27, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> explain in detail.
> Personally, I think that statement is baloney.
> The hinge helps, the face cut does the work.



don't wanna argu with you randy, but when attemping to swing a tree one way or the other , if you cut one side of hinge and leave the other wich way will tree normally want to go? always follows holding wood right? oh and only trying to give someone who is not a timber faller a different way of thinking about it ........please don't light me on fire


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## HuskStihl (Apr 27, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ....and remember its not the wood that was cut but the wood that was left that helps determine direction of fall .....if done properly





RandyMac said:


> explain in detail.
> Personally, I think that statement is baloney.
> The hinge helps, the face cut does the work.



What I always say is "the wood you don't cut is what's left after the wood that you cut has been cut.":biggrin:


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## Metals406 (Apr 27, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> don't wanna argu with you randy, but when attemping to swing a tree one way or the other , if you cut one side of hinge and leave the other wich way will tree normally want to go? always follows holding wood right? oh and only trying to give someone who is not a timber faller a different way of thinking about it ........please don't light me on fire



So you've met Randy. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## twochains (Apr 27, 2013)

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Apr 27, 2013)

A faller  does have to directionally fall the trees. That means that they have to gun them in a certain direction/pattern/lay to make yarding efficient. There will always be a hard leaner, or just a bad tree that won't behave and will mess things up a bit, but not very many....we hope.


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## Gologit (Apr 27, 2013)

slowp said:


> A faller  does have to directionally fall the trees. That means that they have to gun them in a certain direction/pattern/lay to make yarding efficient. There will always be a hard leaner, or just a bad tree that won't behave and will mess things up a bit, but not very many....we hope.



I like your faller  emoticon.

We need one for the Forester too. How 'bout :msp_confused: Or maybe :bang:


Anybody else got any ideas?


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## twochains (Apr 27, 2013)

For Ms. P. it's :msp_wub: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## jrcat (Apr 27, 2013)

didnt want to feel left out lol


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## DavdH (Apr 27, 2013)

And just one little awe crap and they are all gone!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Apr 27, 2013)

This one is most appropriate. :bang: But this one is good also. :coffee:


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## madhatte (Apr 27, 2013)

slowp said:


> But this one is good also. :coffee:



My life, in an emoticon. Praise Internet!


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 27, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> So you've met Randy. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



apparently so :msp_confused: hope I didn't offend him that realy wasn't meant as a fallers lesson or anything just to give a non pro a different prospective. make him think of it another way. if explained how I normaly cut veneer timber I really would get jumped on[no holding wood] go ahead let me have it , but my old man would kick your butt if those butts weren't smooth and notch out of stump, ya'll call that humbold? :msp_smile:


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## jrcat (Apr 28, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> apparently so :msp_confused: hope I didn't offend him that realy wasn't meant as a fallers lesson or anything just to give a non pro a different prospective. make him think of it another way. if explained how I normaly cut veneer timber I really would get jumped on[no holding wood] go ahead let me have it , but my old man would kick your butt if those butts weren't smooth and notch out of stump, ya'll call that humbold? :msp_smile:



I have noticed that Randy is this sites version of a doctor house...... so no worries lol


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 28, 2013)

:msp_thumbup: gotcha no worries


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## Metals406 (Apr 28, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I have noticed that Randy is this sites version of a doctor house...... so no worries lol



OMG!! Great analogy!!

But turn "Dr." into "Pirate" and you're a bit closer. 

But always be respectful. . . Randy's got a face named after him and stuff. :msp_thumbup:


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## bitzer (Apr 28, 2013)

Hopefully the op will post something. You know instead of one of those great rhetorical question type threads where everyone takes some time to post something useful and we never hear from the questioner again. Man if I had a dollar for every one of those threads...

I mean how many "I want to go logging" or "what should I do with my woods?" or "what is the price of this?" or "tell me how to cut a tree" threads have there really been? Its a wonder anyone ever posts on these anymore. Boredom? A chance for fun?


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## Metals406 (Apr 28, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> apparently so :msp_confused: hope I didn't offend him that realy wasn't meant as a fallers lesson or anything just to give a non pro a different prospective. make him think of it another way. if explained how I normaly cut veneer timber I really would get jumped on[no holding wood] go ahead let me have it , but my old man would kick your butt if those butts weren't smooth and notch out of stump, ya'll call that humbold? :msp_smile:



Slick stumping, chasing yer hinge, et al, are used to minimize stump or stem fiber pull. They're just techniques.

I reckon you have to get mighty comfortable on the stump to camp out and chase them over. You also have to know when you can and can't get away with it.

That's when a fella might set up the hinge and trip the back, or get steep and deep on the face and chase the hinge until momentum starts and you get out'a dodge.

On the big ones, if you watch a lot of coastal falling videos, they don't #### around. It's a full hinge and sawn up from the back -- no fancy pants faces. They're nice and open, and once they get the tree committed they run. Big changes how fancy you can be, or want to be.

I know a faller in AK who says he's kept and gotten a lot of falling work by being a "Full Hinge" faller. Meaning, they go into lead, and he always has a clean stump and uniform hinge.

I'm currently cut'n with a man with 43 years on the saw. I've watched him do things with a thumb sized piece of hold-wood I didn't think was possible. But he knew it was -- it's just my inexperience showing through.

It's an experience game -- don't do things that make you uncomfortable if you're alone -- that will get you smooshed. It's nerve racking doing something new when you're being shown, let alone 'trying out' something you saw or read about on the computer -- and you don't have anyone around to help you if'n you need it.

Your 'rape whistle' doesn't do crap if you're out alone.


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## jrcat (Apr 28, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Hopefully the op will post something. You know instead of one of those great rhetorical question type threads where everyone takes some time to post something useful and we never hear from the questioner again. Man if I had a dollar for every one of those threads...
> 
> I mean how many "I want to go logging" or "what should I do with my woods?" or "what is the price of this?" or "tell me how to cut a tree" threads have there really been? Its a wonder anyone ever posts on these anymore. Boredom? A chance for fun?



Sheer boredom and a chance to have fun and or BS...........


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## Gologit (Apr 28, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Hopefully the op will post something. You know instead of one of those great rhetorical question type threads where everyone takes some time to post something useful and we never hear from the questioner again. Man if I had a dollar for every one of those threads...
> 
> I mean how many "I want to go logging" or "what should I do with my woods?" or "what is the price of this?" or "tell me how to cut a tree" threads have there really been? Its a wonder anyone ever posts on these anymore. Boredom? A chance for fun?



Yup...it do get old. The only thing worse than an OP who never comes back after getting all our advice is the kind who stays and argues.
You know the kind...he isn't really looking for advice, he's looking for all of us knuckle draggers to validate what he's already decided to do. Usually what he wants to do is either impossible or just plain dumb. And when we don't buy into whatever brand of dangerous and non productive lunacy he's decided on, and you know we won't, he gets all puffed up, insults us, and leaves. 'Course, before they go I've noticed that their rep turns red and some of the older and wiser hands, whose advice has been ignored or downright scorned, get in a few good kicks. They're entitled.


But...every once in awhile we get one who asks the right questions, who listens, and at least tries what we suggest. Then he lets us know how it worked out and asks what he can do to fine tune the results. Those kind of guys make up for the dingbats. We'll help those guys. They're few and far between but they're worth it.
Eventually.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 28, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Your 'rape whistle' doesn't do crap if you're out alone.



Oh ####, really? What about my pepper spray?


Great post, btw, reminds me a bit of the quote in randymac's signature. I know it by heart because my secret fear after every one of my posts is that he'll say "see my signature."I'm releived when I get set on fire. I'd prolbably be willing to spend money I don't have to attend a "logging fantasy camp" with most of the pro fallers on this site, regardless of coast


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 28, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Slick stumping, chasing yer hinge, et al, are used to minimize stump or stem fiber pull. They're just techniques.
> 
> I reckon you have to get mighty comfortable on the stump to camp out and chase them over. You also have to know when you can and can't get away with it.
> 
> ...



yea it really depends on spiecses [can't spell] over here , on some types white oak cherry and especially ash hinge is a no no ash will explode boreing out the hart helps a lot of course hevy leaners are fun but I've learned a few tricks over the years ..... have I jacked this guys thread :arg: sorry hope he comes back :msp_biggrin:


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## HuskStihl (Apr 28, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Hopefully the op will post something. You know instead of one of those great rhetorical question type threads where everyone takes some time to post something useful and we never hear from the questioner again. Man if I had a dollar for every one of those threads...
> 
> I mean how many "I want to go logging" or "what should I do with my woods?" or "what is the price of this?" or "tell me how to cut a tree" threads have there really been? Its a wonder anyone ever posts on these anymore. Boredom? A chance for fun?



I don't mind these so much because they always seem to lead to a good exchange of ideas, stories, techniques etc. Of course, in these threads I'm usually just enjoying and not contributing much. Noobie thing.

What drives me crazy is in the chainsaw forum when someone asks a saw repair question I actually think I know the answer to, such as "I was pulling on the handle thing, and suddenly it was no longer connected to the saw", or "Noob here, I ran my neighbors saw for 40 minutes and it just quit. I pulled and pulled but nothing happened. Is there some sort of fluid i need to replenish to make it run again?" I respond, there are 10 different ideas about the problem, and we never find out who's right.


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## Gologit (Apr 28, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> I'd prolbably be willing to spend money I don't have to attend a "logging fantasy camp" with most of the pro fallers on this site, regardless of coast



You might like the Napa_Bothe GTG. I think we're having another one in November. Eccentric or Broc-Luno would know for sure.

Start about page 55 in this link for our latest GTG last February. 2dogs, Slowp, RandyMac, Eccentric and some others. More of a working GTG than a strictly cookie cutting event. You might like it.


http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/203410-55.htm


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## rwoods (Apr 29, 2013)

Just this evening my s-i-l asks me while I'm in the middle of trying to figure out the compound angles of an inside crown molding corner (the stuff you do for your kids), "How do you get a tree to fall where you want it to?" I just gave him a weary look and thought of this thread. He responded "Well, I guess we should just do one thing at a time." Seeing that he got the point that the answer to his question was not simple, I told him I wasn't trying to be smart but the answer is it depends upon what forces are in play and what forces you introduce. For now I left it at that as I thought any more details would be incomplete and potentially dangerous. Maybe after we get the trim done and if he shows the interest and the patience we'll have a hands-on lesson or two. 

Speaking of lessons I would love to come to a "working" GTG. I am sure I would learn a lot. Too bad the West coast is soooooo far away. Ron


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## Metals406 (Apr 29, 2013)

rwoods said:


> Just this evening my s-i-l asks me while I'm in the middle of trying to figure out the compound angles of an inside crown molding corner (the stuff you do for your kids), "How do you get a tree to fall where you want it to?" I just gave him a weary look and thought of this thread. He responded "Well, I guess we should just do one thing at a time." Seeing that he got the point that the answer to his question was not simple, I told him I wasn't trying to be smart but the answer is it depends upon what forces are in play and what forces you introduce. For now I left it at that as I thought any more details would be incomplete and potentially dangerous. Maybe after we get the trim done and if he shows the interest and the patience we'll have a hands-on lesson or two.
> 
> Speaking of lessons I would love to come to a "working" GTG. I am sure I would learn a lot. Too bad the West coast is soooooo far away. Ron



I hear there's some fine GTG's in TN though!


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## Spotted Owl (Apr 29, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You might like the Napa_Bothe GTG. I think we're having another one in November. Eccentric or Broc-Luno would know for sure.
> 
> Start about page 55 in this link for our latest GTG last February. 2dogs, Slowp, RandyMac, Eccentric and some others. More of a working GTG than a strictly cookie cutting event. You might like it.
> 
> ...



That is fantastic. I like running saws as much as the next guy. But cookies don't do it for me much. I enjoy talking and listening when I am able to get up with some folks that have like thinking. I'll keep an eye on this one here. Thanks for the link. A work show would be a good time. Learning some new tricks in real type situations. Heck I watch brand new guys, you'd be surprised how much you can learn even from a baby, if you're willing.



Owl


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## Gologit (Apr 29, 2013)

Spotted Owl said:


> That is fantastic. I like running saws as much as the next guy. But cookies don't do it for me much. I enjoy talking and listening when I am able to get up with some folks that have like thinking. I'll keep an eye on this one here. Thanks for the link. A work show would be a good time. Learning some new tricks in real type situations. Heck I watch brand new guys, you'd be surprised how much you can learn even from a baby, if you're willing.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



Come on down next time Scott. You already know some of the people and you'd be a big help. 
Are you going to Farley's in June?


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## slowp (Apr 29, 2013)

Even this tenth saw likes to do productive stuff. I do recommend the CA one. I'm planning on going again. The Technu remains unused. 
The Montana one was a good one also and them Montaniaks don't work in the rain. They melt.:msp_smile:


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

when i was down at farleyville sat bob and i walked the grounds and found some leaners to be culled. just a thought. for june.


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

Spotted Owl said:


> That is fantastic. I like running saws as much as the next guy. But cookies don't do it for me much. I enjoy talking and listening when I am able to get up with some folks that have like thinking. I'll keep an eye on this one here. Thanks for the link. A work show would be a good time. Learning some new tricks in real type situations. Heck I watch brand new guys, you'd be surprised how much you can learn even from a baby, if you're willing.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



some of us could swing by and help ya with them alders you have been killing up the road. i see your fresh sawchips when i cruise down the road.


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

oh ya. owl. i see you.


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## Metals406 (Apr 29, 2013)

slowp said:


> Even this tenth saw likes to do productive stuff. I do recommend the CA one. I'm planning on going again. The Technu remains unused.
> The Montana one was a good one also and them Montaniaks don't work in the rain. They melt.:msp_smile:



Hey now, we work in the rain. . . We just move the work inside! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## rwoods (Apr 29, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I hear there's some fine GTG's in TN though!



Very true. Terry Landum puts on a great one. Good fellowship, food and lots of saws. Ron


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## Tree Feller (Apr 29, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> don't wanna argu with you randy, but when attemping to swing a tree one way or the other , if you cut one side of hinge and leave the other wich way will tree normally want to go? always follows holding wood right? oh and only trying to give someone who is not a timber faller a different way of thinking about it ........please don't light me on fire




This is true, but try to control a tree with no face cut using just the holding wood! You have no control! The hinge and face work togeather. No face cut = no control and no hinge equals very little control from the face cut. Thats just the way i see it, which hey dont make it right. But seems legit! But I have to agree with Randy Mac more, I don't depend only on the hinge to steer a tree.


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## lumberjack48 (Apr 29, 2013)

I've fell a million + trees, every tree has its own identity when felling them. I never used the bore cut, i liked the box cut on a bad leaner less chance of getting the saw hung up. Basically most trees will fall three ways with out using a wedge, when using a proper undercut and proper hinge pull.
When felling average timber i used the hinge to pull-em right where i wanted them. While felling, i watch the top of the tree and when it got right where i wanted to lay it, i'd saw it off, talking to the tree the whole time, pull, pull.

Try this on some 6 inch trees, using under cut and hinge to fall it where you want it, you'll be amazed what you can do.
My father used to amaze me with what he could do when falling trees. He made a game out of it, he'd say, i bet that i can lay it right there, then show me how he did it. I ran measure stick for him, i got a penny a stick, i usually made $4.00 a day, dad was running a 7-19 Homelite, or the Easy or the Zip.


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## Spotted Owl (Apr 29, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Come on down next time Scott. You already know some of the people and you'd be a big help.
> Are you going to Farley's in June?



Yup all plans point to the south in a month and a half or so. I plan to be there with bells on. So long as they aren't on Randy's ruby slippers, he can have them all to hisself. I will watch that link closely, if something is settled on I will try to act fast to get the time to make it. Sign up soon so other don't bump me out of the vacation time. Ha I was told just today that I had a sickness, when I leave work for a while I work harder when I am gone. They just don't understand. Y'all might have to be gentle though, probably have a new commer with me. Is Slinger gonna be around for this one? HE still working on saws, Got a couple that might be in need some of his assistance.



slowp said:


> Even this tenth saw likes to do productive stuff. I do recommend the CA one. I'm planning on going again. The Technu remains unused.
> The Montana one was a good one also and them Montaniaks don't work in the rain. They melt.:msp_smile:



Technu, that there is a 4 letter word Missy. I get that stuff enough that the doc is only an option now days when the eyes start to swell shut, or more sensitive areas are being threatened. Didn't here of anything in Montana, that would be a good one for the boy and me. Could see some friends while we were that way. Is there a link to that also, or a general direction to search?



paccity said:


> some of us could swing by and help ya with them alders you have been killing up the road. i see your fresh sawchips when i cruise down the road.



I didn't even get finished with that little block. It was just fire wood anyhow. I'll call Kevin in the next day or two and get another permit for the summer. We started working on the dory and lost track of time. PC is calling us. The trend is getting better. The boy really likes cutting alder. Got to use his first block face the other day out there. Thought that was pretty slick. That little area time is up Wednesday. Someone else has been in there with us too. Time being up maybe they'll get caught now. I haven't seen them yet. Just clean up their mess. I did get asked though, do you think you own these trees? Who are you to be cutting old growth trees? Do you know how long it takes to grow an old growth tree? Answer. Matter of fact I do own these trees would you like to see the contract? Old growth, what old growth, please point out the old growth and I will stop, they pointed to the one on the ground, oops sorry to late. Started the saw and went back to work. Bout an hour later a deputy cam e up to talk. Looked over that papers and we Bs'd for a bit before he left.



paccity said:


> oh ya. owl. i see you.



Yes you do see me. Walk down to where the Skagit started, look down and a bit to the west and you will see me plain as day. I saw they had the new tower rigged the other day. The Skagit is all folded up. Word has it the brakes went bad, and they dropped the car. Got everything all fixed up they thought, then dropped another car. Showed up the other morning and not a choker to be found, nothing. Our last day on Alder was the day they moved in the new tower. Still haven't found out about the 7 whistles the other day though. Nobody talking about that one yet. plenty seem to know something happened but nobody knows just what or any particulars.



Owl


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## twochains (Apr 29, 2013)

Spotted Owl- Is that a big ass'd stump near the bottom edge center of the picture? If so, how big is it??? Would it be bigger than 8ft??


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

not quite that big.:msp_wink:


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## Spotted Owl (Apr 29, 2013)

twochains said:


> Spotted Owl- Is that a big ass'd stump near the bottom edge center of the picture? If so, how big is it??? Would it be bigger than 8ft??



ya, that's a stump. Looks to be 4 maybe 5 foot. I haven't been up there in a while. Next time I'll take a look see and get back to you. 8 foot would have stood out to me and I don't remember anything like that up there. That is a first gen stump though. Nothing even close to that is happening up there right now. That car under the tower is about 6 or 7 foot long, so that could give you some scale I guess.



Owl


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

Spotted Owl said:


> Yup all plans point to the south in a month and a half or so. I plan to be there with bells on. So long as they aren't on Randy's ruby slippers, he can have them all to hisself. I will watch that link closely, if something is settled on I will try to act fast to get the time to make it. Sign up soon so other don't bump me out of the vacation time. Ha I was told just today that I had a sickness, when I leave work for a while I work harder when I am gone. They just don't understand. Y'all might have to be gentle though, probably have a new commer with me. Is Slinger gonna be around for this one? HE still working on saws, Got a couple that might be in need some of his assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



was wondering about the second yarder. it was up the last time i walked down. yup some big old growth reds in there.:msp_rolleyes: them road alders are a good tree to learn on . go up the hill and act like your going to cut one of the fatties and see them pop a gasket. hear ya on pc. miss taking out the searay. will again someday.


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

here's the other yarder.



these are just up the hill.


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## twochains (Apr 29, 2013)

That tree is incredible! Is it in the set or in some way protected (IDK what term to use). What kind of tree is that? 

I need to hit the lottery and buy me a BMW GS1200 and cruise out to that side of the world! Last time I was in Washington I was 17 yrs old. I would love to see the PNW again.


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## Spotted Owl (Apr 29, 2013)

That's the Skagit they been having trouble with. It's put away now and looks to be ready for transport. It may be the one they had pulled apart at the shop in town, not sure. Stand at the base there and I can see the house in that photo. That pond out to the North is where the elk died this year. Old nag died in ankle deep water. Not much fun on that one. She was the cleanest one so far though.

Been looking at this a few times now. I haven't figured how they are going to log them roads to the west, tucked up in and behind that finger of timber that got left. Unless they are going to set up low and run down hill, hung out an awful long ways. Every thing I see would be half to three quarters of a mile or so. Been a pile of helicopter traffic lately, so that may be an option too. Just looking form a distance, may see something if I got closer in.

That is a nice stick isn't it. There's a few of them outlaws up there still. You'd be better off as a watermelon at a Gallagher show than touching that thing with a saw. You ever see that one stabbed into the road about 4 miles above the rock pile? We met up with Dan, about that one, and a couple office guys. Got the go ahead on that maybe 5 years back. The wicker bills did their thing and figured it busted 12+ foot into the road bed. Broke off at I guess 70' and slid all the way. That sure smelled nice cutting that thing up. I talked the F&W guys out of that one. They wanted it whole for stream habitat. 40+ on the small end and better than 75' long. Whole, dope smokers. Don't get to play with big stuff anymore, not even for firewood. Seems they'd rather let it rot to nothing. 

Any more in your camera? One of these days I need to sit down and figure all this camera and put up pictures thing. Did it a while back and it was a pain. Then I spose I have to remember to take a photo while I'm out there.



Owl


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## paccity (Apr 29, 2013)

these spots should look familiar owl.















this terex had some history before risseeuw got it. using it for a tail.


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## Spotted Owl (Apr 29, 2013)

Alrighty, let's see here.




paccity said:


> these spots should look familiar owl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's the story on big T there?



Owl


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## bnmc98 (Apr 29, 2013)

slowp said:


> The Montana one was a good one also and them Montaniaks don't work in the rain. They melt.:msp_smile:



We may not work in the rain but working in -10 with wind and snow sure gets to be a pain.:wink2: Oh and the 2.5 hr commute one way really sucks too.


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## madhatte (Apr 30, 2013)

paccity said:


> these spots should look familiar owl.



If Owl's right and this is back-side of Mill Creek, those bigguns there may be part of that stand I was telling you about. If this pic is faced about NW, and the gate is about 1/2 mile to the right, you'll find my orange diamond markers starting about 1/2 mile due west. The real big stuff is over the hill and about mid-slope, as I recall.


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## bitzer (Apr 30, 2013)

Its funny how a thread can turn. Great pics guys!


Bob- that's always my hope with sharing my experience in these kinds of threads. Maybe get to one of them that will take it and won't argue back. 

Waiting out some thunder bangers this morn. I'll work in anything, wind, rain, and snow. 100 degrees to 30 below. The ####iest #### mother nature can throw. I draw the line at lightning though.


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## roberte (Apr 30, 2013)

bnmc98 said:


> We may not work in the rain but working in -10 with wind and snow sure gets to be a pain.:wink2: Oh and the 2.5 hr commute one way really sucks too.


 
It takes 2.5 hours in Montana just to get from nowhere to the middle of nowhere


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## slowp (Apr 30, 2013)

roberte said:


> It takes 2.5 hours in Montana just to get from nowhere to the middle of nowhere



That's funny. Where I live, we say everything is 2 hours away....


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## paccity (Apr 30, 2013)




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## lumberjack48 (Apr 30, 2013)

Back in 66 i logged up in the Yaak, i stayed in camp in stead of driving everyday. No pic


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## Metals406 (Apr 30, 2013)

lumberjack48 said:


> Back in 66 i logged up in the Yaak, i stayed in camp in stead of driving everyday. No pic



In the Yaak, MT?


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## rwoods (Apr 30, 2013)

roberte said:


> It takes 2.5 hours in Montana just to get from nowhere to the middle of nowhere





slowp said:


> That's funny. Where I live, we say everything is 2 hours away....



Must be nice. Although the population isn't much here and this is a big county for Tennessee, you can't hardly find solitute. Believe it or not, it was easier to get away from people where I grew up in Florida in a county with 5 times the population. If you can't tell, I am a tad envious of you two. Ron


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## jrcat (Apr 30, 2013)

I am lucky to be able to go to the neighboring county to the east which has less then half the population of this county. It has this Allegany State Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## madhatte (Apr 30, 2013)

paccity said:


>



INNAT CUTE -- punkin thinks it can hide all up in them alders. I see you, punkin!


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## Metals406 (May 1, 2013)

madhatte said:


> INNAT CUTE -- punkin thinks it can hide all up in them alders. I see you, punkin!


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## roberte (May 1, 2013)

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/forestry-logging-forum/293067d1367332269-013-jpg

from the bad guy in dirty harry "my that's a big one"


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## murphy4trees (Oct 2, 2022)

Robert11 said:


> All the how-to felling sites say the front cut, which defines the direction one wants the tree to fall, should be no more than 30 % of the tree diameter deep.


that's wrong.. completely wrong.. where did you get that from? Just goes to show how out of touch with reality this industry is.


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