# stump killer



## Stump Man (Mar 28, 2002)

I have been using Tordon for a few years. Had excellant results. Last year I treated a 3 ft diam willow right after I cut it down. No suckers at all.


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## Reed (Mar 28, 2002)

Just be very very careful -

Tordon isn't labelled for that, true, it does kill. It's a amine salt of 2,4-Dicholoro-oxyacetic acid - 1/2 of what Agent Orange is. When the label mentions precautions and hygene, PLEASE pay double attention (meaning scrub 'til it bleeds). Trust me on this one. 

I've had luck here doing two things - one is drilling, depending on the species, two is I offer a reduced removal rate if they let me burn the stump. I don't stump grind anymore, I can refer it or subcontract, but either way it's practically as expensive as the takedown.


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## John Paul McMillin (Apr 7, 2002)

I used tordon once and i treated about 40 stumps on a hillside. all the stumps died but so did all the norway spruce tree that were downhill from the treated stumps. from now on ill use roundup 100% on fresh cut stumps.it doesnt leach into the soil like tordon does. I did read the label on tordon but i must have missed the small print. This stuff is very dangerous. this stuff should only be used for line clearance or right of way. jpm


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## Reed (Apr 7, 2002)

Yeah, RoundUp works best. I never had to use more than a few squirts from an 'ol Windex bottle, as long as the cut's fresh and you get it on the sapwood.


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## sonny (Apr 7, 2002)

we always used full strenth round up.Unless it was a palm stump
that the customer needed to kill the stump . Then we used dirty H2o


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 8, 2002)

There are studies thatshow a 20-25% dilution works as well as 100% of roundup pro. I believe if you use 100% your going off label and would need a specila use permit.


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## Nickrosis (Apr 17, 2002)

Here in Wisconsin, you also need to apply to product in a labeled container. A Windex bottle would be ruled out of order. At the same time, nobody is checking up on this stuff - police officers will stop and ask for suggestions for their yard, but they don't know anything about PPE regulations. If abuse is reported, that's when citations get issued, but there are only a handful of people in the entire state who do that, 2 or 3 as I recall.

Nickrosis


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## rbtree (Apr 17, 2002)

JPS,

Thanks for the tip on using 8-10% roundup. I sometimes use the 18% undiluted. Now I will always cut it in half or so, and save some $.

Agree on the Tordon, awful stuff. I had a tiny bit spill inside a 2 cubic foot hinged step top steel box of my old truck(Asplundh walk in) It still smelled eight years later!! Immediately after the spill, no more than a couple cc, I never replenished.


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## UrbanEarth (Apr 17, 2002)

Nickrosis, does your regulation state that when APPLYING you have to have a labeled container, or is it just when you are STORING the product? If the first then you would have to have a label on your backpack sprayer, and all tanks??????

Alan


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## John Paul McMillin (Apr 17, 2002)

what ive read on roundup, it can be used on stumps undiluted or a 50% rate. Ive also heard that roundup has a higher LD50 than table salt, so it is hardly toxic to humans? JPM


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 18, 2002)

In wisconsin you have to have a lable on all containers. That does include a backpack in use.

But you can make your own tages if you use the product name and EPA number. Not sure of the entire regulation, may need mix rate, but that should be in your truk anyways.

While transporting you must have a manufaturers lable and an MSDS in the truck.

When I spray GMoth eggs I usualy have a lable on them 30% water 70% Mazola. Forgot to keep a bottle in my truck this year.

I'll usualy water the veggie oil down just till it will spray out good. I've had customer get me a can of PAM a few times too. Hmmm was i going off lable there.


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## Nickrosis (Apr 19, 2002)

Sodium chloride (table salt):

Oral-Rat LD50 3000 mg kg-1 
Oral-Man LDLO 1000 mg kg-1 
Oral-Mouse LD50 4000 mg kg-1 
Intraperitoneal-Mouse LD50 2602 mg kg-1 (abdomen/pelvic area)
Intracervical-Mouse LD50 131 mg kg-1 (figure it out yourself)
Skin-Rabbit LD50 > 10000 mg kg-1

Round-Up (Ready-to-Use - 1.92% glyphosate)

DERMAL LD50: Practically non-toxic, (Rat) LD50 >5.0 gm/Kg
ORAL LD50: Rat = >5.0 g/kg

So...orally, Round-Up is considered "less toxic." You CANNOT call it (or advertise it as) "non-toxic."
Dermally, table salt is "less toxic," but different test animals were used.

This is all fine and dandy, but what about the material we actually hold in the measuring cup? Different story because the Super Concentrate is 50.2% glyphosate. I have heard that the surfactant used in Round-Up is more toxic than glyphosate (the active ingredient) is itself. This is not uncommon. Ornamec (kills only grass) has a rating of "Caution," but the recommended surfactant has a rating of "Danger."

Strange, but think about it. Glyphosate may mess with your nervous system because it is a complex organic compound, but a surfactant can mess with anything in the body - skin, nerves, muscle, whatever. It's kind of like a super-strength soap. Anyways, I don't know a whole lot about very much, and I already passed my limit. Wish me luck on my soils exam in 8 hours!

Nickrosis


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 19, 2002)

That is the funny thing about the EPA, the inactive ingrediant is not regulated the same as the active ingrediant. Many time they do not degrade like the active ingrediant too, so you find high amounts of the carrier in ground water. Especialy in large Ag. regions. It was turning up in the wells in Price county in the early 80's.

I hate the toxicity comparisons to table salt and other things. Repeated low dose exposure to NaCl is life sustaining. As Mr. Disreali said "lies ????ed lies and statistics".

How bout inhalation of small doses of liquid dihydrogen oxide is usualy fatal?

Nick, you say "recomended surfactent" if this is a post sale combination what is the dermal LD50 of the concoction? Hmmmm....seems that would change the numbers some since surfactants reduce the dermises protective qualites.

I'm no greanpeacer, I think these products have their place. I'm glad profesional applicators need licensing, just wish that they restricted public use also.


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