# I seek your wisdom: Tree hung up in another tree



## coen9 (Feb 20, 2010)

MMmmk so, though this is the newbie thread, I feel it prudent of me to state that my knowledge of tree work can be pretty well summed up in two words: _jack_ and _sh*t_.

That being said, my qualifications are:

A. I've used a chainsaw on multiple occasions before

B. I didn't cut my toes off

C. I possess common sense, at least most of the time


With that out of the way, here's my issue. If you want the bottom line without all the details, skip this and jump down to "So here's my question:."

On my mother's land around her house, about 2 acres worth, there's a hell of a lot of shallow-rooted pine that, for whatever reasons (i've been told it was a previous drought) have roots that grow out parallel to the ground instead of out and down. As such, anytime there's a wind storm or really anytime a squirrel jumps on one, the thing is coming down. Where she lives (in Earlysville, VA), it's been a major problem for everyone. So in her yard, there are downed pines everywhere, and there are a lot of trees that haven't come down all the way..that are hanging on others. The ones posing an immediate danger have been removed, but she's gotten estimates from licensed arborists that have quoted her $10,000 or more to completely clean up the land around her house. She can't afford that right now. I've been helping her out when I can, coming over to buck a couple of fallen trees on a weekend....and holy CRAP is that hard work...especially with just two people (me and my brother), one chainsaw, and no power equipment of any kind. The woods are so dense with healthy trees and/or fallen trees that we basically have to move each 80 to 100 lb. log section by hand 50 ft. out to where we were stacking them and the branches and brush even further out. Though it's really tough, we are making some progress and have started to line the property line with some of the logs (nobody wants pine and that's the best thing I could think of to do with it). 

The real problem is those damn trees that haven't fallen all the way yet...the ones that are hung up in other trees. Since there's only two of us doing the work and sporadically at that, it's going to double the work load if I have to cut down every healthy tree that the fallen tree is hung up on. And that, in and of itself seems dangerous as hell. There's at least 24 of the things left. 

So here's my question:

Is there a way I can get some of those hung-up trees down without cutting down the other trees that they're hanging on? I have no power equipment besides my chainsaw (stihl MS 441), though I guess I could rent some if absolutely necessary, but I don't mind hard work without it. My first thought was a really heavy duty comealong tied to another tree to try and pull the tree back and/or down. Is this done?

Now yes, I know you're going to tell me that I should have a professional do it, but the money's just not there right now, and I've already got a sizable amount down. It's just hose hanging trees.

Thanks for reading, and I've got a new-found respect for tree work.


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2010)

I have cut down lots of them but my ways ain't allowed, Fencepost baby!
You got 'er right with the come-a-long idea, never done it myself, too slow, but its what They recomend.


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## coen9 (Feb 20, 2010)

clearance said:


> I have cut down lots of them but my ways ain't allowed, Fencepost baby!
> You got 'er right with the come-a-long idea, never done it myself, too slow, but its what They recomend.



thanks for the reply.

quick question though, ...."Fencepost?" 

I smell a secret trick.


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## newsawtooth (Feb 20, 2010)

*Some things to think about...*

Here are a couple links for you. I'm not saying you can't do it, just recognize that cutting hung up trees exposes you to a colossal amount of risk. What is the benefit of cutting them? What are the risks? Best of luck.




http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2010/safe/Hang-ups_TakeASecondLook.pdf

http://www.nwcg.gov/teams/shwt/httf...rces/procedures_for_ cutting_hazard_trees.doc


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## coen9 (Feb 20, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> Here are a couple links for you. I'm not saying you can't do it, just recognize that cutting hung up trees exposes you to a colossal amount of risk. What is the benefit of cutting them? What are the risks? Best of luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks very much


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## Nemus Talea (Feb 20, 2010)

clearance said:


> I have cut down lots of them but my ways ain't allowed, Fencepost baby!
> You got 'er right with the come-a-long idea, never done it myself, too slow, but its what They recomend.



I am guilty of the dreaded "Fencepost method" as well - as a last resort.

Coen9, If you learn the definition... don't do it! The chances of a newbee-intermediate doing it without getting maimed or killed are great. You need to know the physics involved, the characteristics of the wood, feel for your saw and fleet feet... some luck is good too. Even with decades of experience the penalty for a small mistake is huge.

Are you guys cleaning up for the sake of aesthetics or do kids play in there and safety is the motivation? How big are they?

If it must be done an application of horsepower would be in order. Your time and health have value and should weigh heavily against the price of a weekend rental. 

A 4x4 truck or bobcat, 150-200' of steel cable, choke chains and some snatch blocks could get plenty done. (Careful with the cable, keep people away and certainly out of the bight.)

Take care in the danger zone. Wear a hardhat. Constantly look up for snagged and damaged limbs. Safe first OK?


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## rogert906 (Feb 20, 2010)

if you decide to do it yourself, keep in mind that each tree/situation is different. take in the big picture first. are there any overhead limbs that may get dislodged and fall? where is the tension and pressure in the tree/trees? are the branches in the tipped tree tangled in a way that it will come free or is it entangled and gravity won't bring it down even if cut free of the stump and pulled? and remember when you cut it free from the stump, the root system may roll or even move back to it's original position with force. careful of the ones that have the supporting tree bent and loaded like an archer's bow, as it may be applying force directly down the length of the hung up tree. cut carefully as the lodged tree may roll or be shoved directly back toward the stump. also the chances of getting all the trees down and cut up without pinching your saw are pretty slim. you should have a second saw. remember,when trying to remove a stuck saw you need to be careful not to let it get pulled or fall and get squashed. a lot of times once you cut them free of the stump they will roll and fall themselves. if not, you can try to pull the log free of the tree it's hung in. plan B involves other techniques that are too dangerous and situation specific to talk a guy thru. remember to keep the ground clear where you're cutting! you may need to get clear quickly when something surprises you! hopefully all or most of the trees will come down by cutting them free of the stump. if not, then with some persuasion by pulling them out. beware of lodged limbs! a dented skull can lead to drain bamage, err brain damage.


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## RVALUE (Feb 20, 2010)

Trees are dangerous.

Be careful of the advice: Go try this and if it doesn't work, don't come back and tell us.


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## rob b (Feb 20, 2010)

Those kind of trees are probly the most dangerous .Do you have a friend that has some experience that can help you? If you try this make sure you have proper ppe and a spare saw. NEVER CUT ALONE!!!


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## treeslayer (Feb 20, 2010)

I'll be in VA in a week or so, and for a modest flat rate I'll come out for a day and knock em all down, and show you the secret trick.


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## outofmytree (Feb 20, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> I'll be in VA in a week or so, and for a modest flat rate I'll come out for a day and knock em all down, and show you the secret trick.



Coen this is the best offer you will get IMO. What you describe is an accident waiting to happen. Even if Slayer only bones half the job for you and leaves the easy stuff you are way in front. No substitute for learning hands on from a seasoned pro.


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## RVALUE (Feb 20, 2010)

rob b said:


> Those kind of trees are probly the most dangerous .Do you have a friend that has some experience that can help you? If you try this make sure you have proper ppe and a spare saw. NEVER CUT ALONE!!!



I doubt you were trying to be funny, but in a way it is. First, how true. Leaners are VERY dangerous. The comment about a spare saw is also very true, and spare money when the saw gets bit and then the tree jumps on it and crushes it. Better the saw than your head! 

Good post.


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## treeslayer (Feb 20, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Coen this is the best offer you will get IMO. What you describe is an accident waiting to happen. Even if Slayer only bones half the job for you and leaves the easy stuff you are way in front. No substitute for learning hands on from a seasoned pro.



He's less than an hour from my parents house, and I would lay all of em down for a couple hundred $. the lesson itself is worth $$ thousands................


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## ATH (Feb 20, 2010)

A couple of folks already aluded to this, but then gave you other ideas, let me just highlight:

WHY do they need to come down? If you can't come up with a reason that is more valuable than your leg, arm, or head then leave them hang.


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## RVALUE (Feb 20, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> I'll be in VA in a week or so, and for a modest flat rate I'll come out for a day and knock em all down, and show you the secret trick.



Did he have 100 to let down? Or is a 'day' a figure of speech?


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## coen9 (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone for all the great info. 

In regards to the feedback and some of the questions:

The main reason that they "need" to come down is purely cosmetic. The house is set back from the street by two-hundred square feet or so of pine forest...and right now it just looks like...like ass..just terrible. And it's a neighborhood with large, wooded front lots, so there's an H.O.A. that "frowns upon" leaving the front areas like that. The back area behind the house looks even worse. The neighbors' yards are nice and clean, so my mother was sure to point that out when she called me to ask for help. 

But yea, the entire house is surrounded, canopied really, by pine trees, which is nice in some ways, but in most ways it just sucks.

1. They fall all the damn time (2 on the house so far that insurance has covered).

2. The needles fall all over the roof and routinely clog up the gutters

3. The sap or whatever from the needles gets all over the asphalt driveway and you end up tracking it in through the carpet if you don't take your shoes off.

4. Did I mentioned the needles all over the driveway all the damn time? And if you park your car outside the needles fall all over the car and get that sticky crap all over your paint, which if you don't get it off right away, screws up the paint.

5. You can't use it for firewood and nobody else wants it either.

6. Unless you constantly keep the yard raked and clean, the needles will kill all the grass.

..but hey, it smells nice! Sorry, I'm a little bitter. Older parents and a nice son = son routinely driving 2 hours to do all outdoor upkeep work at the house.

I was initially considering the "cutting two opposing pie-hinges and using a rope method" that was outlined in the second link (picture C in the document) that newsawtooth posted (thanks very much by the way), but uh, what happens if I over-cut the hinges and the bastard drops down while I'm still there? I could probably do it, but like you all said, it's just not worth the risk unless you really know what you're doing.

And Treeslayer, I sure appreciate the offer but I'm not going to be able to take you up on up it for time and money reasons, at least not anytime soon.

What I think I'm gonna do is just finish limbing and bucking all of the downed trees slowly over time and just leave the leaners where they are for now. Then maybe later this year when I'm not broke and if they're still there, then, Treeslayer, maybe I could contact you through the forum if you're still interested?

Thanks again everyone. Ya'll (we say that here in the Old Dominion) are a stand-up bunch.


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## pdqdl (Feb 22, 2010)

Ok. I'll bite on that hook.

What is this secret fencepost method of pulling a hung tree? I really doubt if there are any tricks I don't know, but why any of them would be called "fencepost" is beyond me.

Besides, this IS arborist 101. Who here is entitled to bring up a top secret method of doing something and then not explain it? Even if it is something crazy like using starting fluid and a lighter to seat the bead on a tractor tire, it at least deserves an explanation.


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## coen9 (Feb 22, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Ok. I'll bite on that hook.
> 
> What is this secret fencepost method of pulling a hung tree? I really doubt if there are any tricks I don't know, but why any of them would be called "fencepost" is beyond me.
> 
> Besides, this IS arborist 101. Who here is entitled to bring up a top secret method of doing something and then not explain it? Even if it is something crazy like using starting fluid and a lighter to seat the bead on a tractor tire, it at least deserves an explanation.



I wouldn't do it even if I found out...seems totally out of my league. But it does have mystique now, you know? Plus they made it sound about as dangerous and sensible as pissing on a sleeping grizzly.


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## Crow Horse (Feb 22, 2010)

I had one hang on me recently and I was able to use a high lift jack to "kick" out the trunk that had "pile drived" into the ground. It took quite a bit to move it out safely, maybe 30 feet or so till it dropped free. My assessment was that cutting while it was hung was beyond my skill level. Discretion was the better part of valor in this case........

Now that I have a rope puller, I would have tried that as well, maybe in concert with the high lift jack....


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## pdqdl (Feb 22, 2010)

The only real danger (apart from tree felling in general) is that you are standing next to a tree that drops straight down when cut, rather than slowly toppling. They are generally thought to be unpredictable, and there is always the risk of the supporting trees letting go at the wrong time.

I don't think hung trees are that tough. The toughest are the ones that won't come down even after you have cut all the bottom off. There they are, hanging from the other tree, and you now need to add some extra force to gravity.

Try the two cut method in the first article posted. With a little creativity, you will see that you can make the cuts so that they act like an over-center cam, closing the gap on the bar. Pulling them open with a rope releases the load, and it flies apart.

Start small, work your way up to bigger ones.


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## Taxmantoo (Feb 22, 2010)

Would it be safer, instead of cutting the hanger or the tree it's hung in, to cut a third tree and use it to knock the hanger down? (and a fourth if the third hangs on the first, and so on and so on until there aren't enough trees left to be a nuisance)


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## newsawtooth (Feb 22, 2010)

I understand your predicament. Sounds like you have some good reasons to get rid of them. They make the area unsafe. The fencepost method uses two cuts on the top and the bottom so the butt of the tree falls to the ground. Usually with enough force and the help of the angled saw cuts they can stick firmly like a fencepost. If they don't lay down the method is repeated. As has been stated, when this happens you are right next to the tree. Not ideal. If you make the cuts and use a truck to pull the rope you are able to get away with cutting less. You can use some redirects like a snatch block to get hard to reach places. Are there any small ones in a more open area you can experiment on? I hesitate to offer a number because they can all be dangerous, but something in the 6" diameter range?


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 23, 2010)

taxmantoo said:


> Would it be safer, instead of cutting the hanger or the tree it's hung in, to cut a third tree and use it to knock the hanger down? (and a fourth if the third hangs on the first, and so on and so on until there aren't enough trees left to be a nuisance)



You could easily end up with a 'jackpot' that is so bound together you need a loader or crane to safely break it apart. 

Whenever possible, I cut them from the bottom up, taking off 5' at a time. Once you cut it to an almost vertical position, then pull it back with a rope.


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## silverzuk (Feb 23, 2010)

I can tell you how I ended up with a 4 titanium plates, 20 screws, and a helicopter flight cutting a leaner. 

I knew the dangers, but was a still too confident, too much in a hurry to let logic step in on such a small tree (about 10" white oak). It about tore my head off.

I don't get in a hurry anymore. I don't get paid to cut anymore, and if it I am not quite confident that I can do it safely - I don't do it. I've had to call in friends to help. I have been told "Leave it - ones hung like that I only winch with the dozer".


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## pdqdl (Feb 23, 2010)

That sounds like a really good tale. I would like to hear it. Why don't you post it in a thread dedicated to that topic? (injuries!)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=123695


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## bruce6670 (Feb 23, 2010)

coen9 said:


> I wouldn't do it even if I found out...seems totally out of my league. But it does have mystique now, you know? Plus they made it sound about as dangerous and sensible as pissing on a sleeping grizzly.



If I were you,I would come up with a couple of bucks and have TREESLAYER help you out and at the same time learn a few skills that could save your ass later on down the road.

Good luck.


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## randyg (Feb 23, 2010)

coen9 said:


> MMmmk so, though this is the newbie thread
> 
> estimates from licensed arborists that have quoted her $10,000 or more to completely clean up the land around her house. She can't afford that right now.
> 
> ...



What is the diameter of most of these hung trees?
Picture would be awesome.
Mark and number trees in question and then get a quote on JUST having them safely put on the ground for you, and you can do all the rest. Watch the work being done if poss. so next time one or more tips, you will have many more hours on the chainsaw and know if you want to attempt them. Perhaps a quote on taking only the most difficult one down while you watch from a distance? Keep in mind, some pros can make it look oh so easy...

Good luck!


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## Burvol (Feb 23, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> I'll be in VA in a week or so, and for a modest flat rate I'll come out for a day and knock em all down, and show you the secret trick.



Come out to a real show, and we'll give _you_ a free lesson.... 

Go out to the Oregon Coast and buck blow down, then get back to us Mr. Cocky.


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## indiansprings (Feb 23, 2010)

If I don't have the tractor and chain handy to pull them down, I just take four to five foot off at a time until it is almost vertical and then use a chain and the old flatbed to pull them down. They can be damned dangerous, we did a oak last fall that scared the crap out of me about a 32" tree, cut it unitl it was almost vertical and it still took a 125 hp 4wd drive tractor to get the thing down, there was an ungodly amount of pressure on the trunk. It was a blowdown and had a fork wedged tight against another tree. I wish I had taken photo's of a top we cut up last week a big oak limb probably 16-18 " had wedged against another tree when it fell, I stood on the main trunk and cut it into, it just hung there wedged, went back to pick up a trim saw and it let go after I had taken about 15 steps crashing into the ground, it would have missed me if I were standing there, but it hit with a thump. You can never be too careful, walk away and live another day if you don't feel confident in your abilities.


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## treeslayer (Feb 23, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Come out to a real show, and we'll give _you_ a free lesson....
> 
> Go out to the Oregon Coast and buck blow down, then get back to us Mr. Cocky.



not a problem, I could do em. Except I make a lot more $$ here.
I've done enough big trees, 4'+ DBH and 100"+ to know I'm good at it.


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## Burvol (Feb 23, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> not a problem, I could do em. Except I make a lot more $$ here.
> I've done enough big trees, 4'+ DBH and 100"+ to know I'm good at it.



Good, stay there. Nothing like working with a cocky green horn, which is what you would be out here.


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## Nemus Talea (Feb 24, 2010)

Poof! Another thread bursts in flames!

Slayer, things are getting better. Last time the HO you tried to help/advise was blasting you.

Love that internet!


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## gwiley (Feb 24, 2010)

*details behind the risks of hung trees*

It might help to understand some of the details behind the risks. 

One of the worst scenarios is where a hung tree is under lateral (sideways) pressure but it may not be obvious that this is the case. The larger the tree the more easily the pressure is hidden. When a cut is made that releases the pressure (say removing the bottom 4') the tree swings like a bat swung by paul bunyan and turns living beings into jelly whilst launching them dozens of feet.

Another scenario is where the branches on either the fallen tree or the holding tree break due to vibration or a bad mood, releasing the tree. The tree may fall straight down, but more likely will roll off the holding tree. If the cutter is one the receiving side of the roll he may become one with the forest floor.

Fenceposting is where you successively cut portions off the lower end of the hing tree until it falls. This is dangerous because with each cut you change the nature of the pressures on the tree, risking an unpredictable release. There is no truly safe way to fencepost - although folks do it every day and survive, it is simply not safe.

Norther Tool sells 4 ton cable come-alongs for $40 +/-, combine that with some towing chain or a good bull rope and you can pull hangers down with relative safety without spending a lot of money. Pay attention to your anchor tree so that you don't pull it on top of you


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## treeslayer (Feb 24, 2010)

all I ever do is offer honest advice from my experienced perspective.
People who make stupid comments get the benefit of my experience as a cynical, jaded type A personality as well. 

burvol, no need to be an a$$, or are you just jealous? 
The secret trick is *read the wood*. you obviously know how, and I was teasing the guy a little. I would show up and help out a neighbor, and give him an education based on my many years of cutting pressurized wood. 

you wanna pick a fight? whatever. go back to your ax-men reruns buddy.
no way would I go anywhere and take a job where someone would consider me a greenhorn. cocky is a good thing for a climber, when combined with experience. 
my company motto is NO PU$$IES ALLOWED. so for you, NOT HIRING.:hmm3grin2orange:

I go somewhere new for a storm and I hire experienced people local, and bring in guys I know are way above average for the crane work and hazard climbing.
And I climb and takedown the trees that everybody yells crane at.


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## Burvol (Feb 24, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> all I ever do is offer honest advice from my experienced perspective.
> People who make stupid comments get the benefit of my experience as a cynical, jaded type A personality as well.
> 
> burvol, no need to be an a$$, or are you just jealous?
> ...



Good for you. I don't want to be a residential tree worker, and I am not jealous of wannabe urban loggers. I just think that being cocky is one of the most irritating ways to operate as a human being. Been many people killed that way in my line of work.

Axemen is fake. I don't need to watch that crap, I live the real thing. As far as your motto, I don't think you understand. 

I was never picking a fight, just stating that being cocky is dumb way to go about a dangerous proffession. I have personally known people that are dead because of this.


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## treeslayer (Feb 24, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Good for you. I don't want to be a residential tree worker, and I am not jealous of wannabe urban loggers. I just think that being cocky is one of the most irritating ways to operate as a human being. Been many people killed that way in my line of work.
> 
> Axemen is fake. I don't need to watch that crap, I live the real thing. As far as your motto, I don't think you understand.
> 
> I was never picking a fight, just stating that being cocky is dumb way to go about a dangerous proffession. I have personally known people that are dead because of this.



ok, I agree. Why I said cocky mixed with experience. 

My motto thing is mostly a screen for wannabe climbers. I see a lot of stupidity in this business traveling, and seen way too often what saws and trees do to the human body. sorry to come across so strong, I'm snowed in AGAIN, and frustrated.


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## outofmytree (Feb 24, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> ok, I agree. Why I said cocky mixed with experience.
> 
> My motto thing is mostly a screen for wannabe climbers. I see a lot of stupidity in this business traveling, and seen way too often what saws and trees do to the human body. sorry to come across so strong, I'm snowed in AGAIN, and frustrated.



It aint snowing here mate. It is over 100 degrees for the next 5 days though...

Maybe you aint man enough for the hardcore Aussie treework!


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## treeslayer (Feb 24, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> It aint snowing here mate. It is over 100 degrees for the next 5 days though...
> 
> Maybe you aint man enough for the hardcore Aussie treework!



palm trees and Foster Lager? easier than you think, and I love the heat.


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## outofmytree (Feb 24, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> palm trees and Foster Lager? easier than you think, I and I love the heat.



Worked from 7 until 7 today. I would love to burn you off in these conditions...

Or maybe i would end up eating crow.


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## tree MDS (Feb 24, 2010)

*Snowed in here too...*



treeslayer said:


> palm trees and Foster Lager? easier than you think, I and I love the heat.



I agree. At least you dont have to chisel the heat off the equipment. I'll take a plain old budweiser though.


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## outofmytree (Feb 24, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I agree. At least you dont have to chisel the heat off the equipment. I'll take a plain old budweiser though.



You want the heat! You can't handle the heat!







Apparently I can't handle it either!


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## tree MDS (Feb 24, 2010)

Thats funny oomt. I worked in south FL (Fort Lauderdale) when I was younger... I could handle it then. I'm not so sure about these days though.

In the summer, when it gets real hot up here, I regularly have guys tell me that I'm a freak because I dont drink or eat anything all day. I just get focused on the task at hand I guess - cut tree, get check.


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## outofmytree (Feb 24, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Thats funny oomt. I worked in south FL (Fort Lauderdale) when I was younger... I could handle it then. I'm not so sure about these days though.
> 
> In the summer, when it gets real hot up here, I regularly have guys tell me that I'm a freak because I dont drink or eat anything all day. I just get focused on the task at hand I guess - cut tree, get check.



Cut tree, get check.

I laughed at that one. Guess that sentiment knows no national boundaries!

To be honest I would love to work in snow but only for the experience. Screw that for a full time job!


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## pdqdl (Feb 24, 2010)

Strap about 50 of these to your head, arms, legs, and chest, head for the nearest sand dune, and then start dragging brush through the sand to your chipper.






That will be about the same as dragging brush through the snow. Except the air will be warmer and you won't form icicles on your mustache/beard/face mask.


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## Burvol (Feb 24, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> ok, I agree. Why I said cocky mixed with experience.
> 
> My motto thing is mostly a screen for wannabe climbers. I see a lot of stupidity in this business traveling, and seen way too often what saws and trees do to the human body. sorry to come across so strong, I'm snowed in AGAIN, and frustrated.



It's all good. It's just good to be grounded when working with trees, you know?


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## treeslayer (Feb 25, 2010)

Burvol said:


> It's all good. It's just good to be grounded when working with trees, you know?


:agree2:
Talked to Ol Dirty yesterday, he spoke well of you. I'm gonna go drink some beer with him in a couple weeks, when I get to the East Coast.


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## treeslayer (Feb 25, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Strap about 50 of these to your head, arms, legs, and chest, head for the nearest sand dune, and then start dragging brush through the sand to your chipper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Except for walking/working on the :censored: Ice.


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## pdqdl (Feb 25, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> Except for walking/working on the :censored: Ice.



Ah Hah! Wear roller skates while you are dragging the brush through the sand! Hit any pavement, and awaaaay you go! _Just like the ice._

Quite frankly, I don't do tree work in the snow for reasons listed above. It just isn't worth it, normally. If I actually had any tree work to do right now, I would consider it.


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## treeslayer (Feb 25, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Quite frankly, I don't do tree work in the snow for reasons listed above. It just isn't worth it, normally. If I actually had any tree work to do right now, I would consider it.



I heard there's an opening in the meth business there.......

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=126340


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## pdqdl (Feb 25, 2010)

No real openings in the Meth business. They were probably doing a much better business in meth than they were in the tree business.

If you believe the reports, there are more meth dealers in Missouri than anywhere else in the country. So in addition to being super-saturated with tree trimming companies, we are also super-saturated with meth dealers.

This particular company was 38 miles away in Lawrence, Ks. So even if I was in the meth business, none of their customers would come in to see me. Now if I was willing to move, I know where there is a great location for that type of business.


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