# If you were to.......



## dogdad (Nov 28, 2005)

If you were to go out and buy a climbing saddle,, spikes,,to climb a pine tree and peice it down ,,what brand would you get ?


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

I would buy the kind that came with a professional tree man attached to them. Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Newfie (Nov 28, 2005)

Redbull said:


> I would buy the kind that came with a professional tree man attached to them. Sorry, couldn't resist.



Have to agree there. If you have to ask a question like that you probably have no business doing it without training.


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 28, 2005)

don't listen to them man. here's all the gear you need to do the most advanced tree work. . . top of the line stuff we're talking here

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pole-Tree-climb...ryZ61788QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/MSA-SAFETY-BELT-climbing_W0QQitemZ7567094142QQcategoryZ36353QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

actually, I'm very much kidding. If you think you can just buy the gear and cut down a tree, I promise you that it will result in injury or death. Like I said in a different post, DIY=DIE


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## dogdad (Nov 28, 2005)

Thanks for all the non informative answers...........sorry I %$#^&&& asked.


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

Dogdad, Did't mean to piss you off but I just had to say it. If I would't have, someone else would have. I see in your profile that you are in the lawn and landscape business. Are you addig tree care to your list of services or is this a one-shot deal? I'm gonna be honest with you. If you're looking to save a few bucks by removing your own tree, I'd recomend against it. There's too much ivolved for someone to safely walk you through a removal over the internet. Now, if you're looking into a long term commitment to tree care, you might find some help. It won't happen overnight though.


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

Oh, and to answer your original question, brands aren't as important as safety, comfort, and, well, safety. The best way to find the right gear is to try it out.


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## begleytree (Nov 28, 2005)

Not to mention that the gear will probably cost more than having a pro take it down for you. Surely a landscaper has the equipment to clean it up.
But hey, it's just a tree, how hard can it be. 
See the do it yourself homeowners thread, same thing applies here.
-Ralph


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## dogdad (Nov 28, 2005)

RedBull...you didn't....just surprised at the responces. I have a skid loader , stump grinder and have been removing fallen trees from Katrina. I find it really interesting and challenging work to figure on what peice to cut first and how to go about it. It's kind of like a puzzle. Plus the $$$$...............There is no place around here that sells arborist gear( New Orleans),,so I thought I would ask you guyus that have used different brands , styles, etc...... what is good. Yes ...to answer your ? I would buy a saddle and spikes to see what it is like to climb a Pine tree 40' up. Would I stick to it ,,,who knows. I know I wouldn't go and do some crazy tree work or climbing......I do have some smarts to me. But there are alot of pine trees to cut that are snapped.


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

Are you only doing removals?


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

If so, you're gear choice would be a little different than that of someone who does mostly pruning work.


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## dogdad (Nov 28, 2005)

Yep...want to climb and cut the limbs then drop the trees in pieces,remove with the skidder and grind the stump. I don't want to climb some burly oak and start cuttin away. Some of these pines are close to houses so you need to peice them down.


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

Well, if you know anyone with gear, see if you can try there's on first, if that style isn't comfortable try a different style. Like I said before though, this isn't something you can just run up and do. If these trees have been damaged, you need to be able to assess the stability of the tree and what kind of loads it can handle. Another option is to try and find a good, safe climber ad hire him to climb and train you.


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

Things that make you go...hmmmmm.


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## dogdad (Nov 28, 2005)

I just think I asked the wrong ? to the wrong people at the wrong website.I thought i could get some usefull information but evedently if one has not cut trees and you guys are such pros.........


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## Redbull (Nov 28, 2005)

I'm just looking out for ya, man. Seriously, this is not something that you just run out and do without proper training. I really mean no disrespect.


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## begleytree (Nov 28, 2005)

dogdad said:


> If you were to go out and buy a climbing saddle,, spikes,,to climb a pine tree and peice it down ,,what brand would you get ?
> 
> 
> I just think I asked the wrong ? to the wrong people at the wrong website.I thought i could get some usefull information but evedently if one has not cut trees and you guys are such pros.........



Now, you read back over that an tell me where you said you've been doing it for x years. Your profile says you mow grass and trim hedges. 
Now, how are we supposed to know that you've been climbing for 10 years, and are just looking for updated gear and knots?

Most everyone here would rather see you safe, than hurt. If thats a fault, than maybe you are talking to the wrong crowd. But we get 10 of these dumb questions a month, and the ones who ask it are the ones driving up our insurance and workers comp rates. A lot of guys with a LOT more experience than you get hurt or killed every year. Is the money really worth it? Why can't you hire someone to do the climbing, and teach you?
Some of us are trying to get you to step back a bit, and realize that you're probably already beaten, and are just itching to get yourself hurt. You really think it can't happen to you? It happens everyday to guys EXACTLY LIKE YOU!

Take this reply however you will, but whatever you do, STAY SAFE.
-Ralph


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## BostonBull (Nov 28, 2005)

Just be sure that hwen you order the gear get the stuff that comes with the highest amount of life insurance so your family has one less thing to take care of.

Seriously if you have never been in a tree before with a chainsaw under proper conditions you really should have some sort of formal training. And you pick for a first removal a Pine as comapared to a Burly Oak as you put it....not smart. Pine has the hinging ability and strength of a toothpick. Sure there are weaker/worse trees out there but I would take the big burly Oak to rig to than the small pine next to a house...a lot more predictable.

Good luck!


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 28, 2005)

You do realize that you need a state arbo license to do treework in Louisiana don't you? LA is one of the few places where they actually have an enforcement program too. the cops do, and will, arrest...

FWIW

Have you read The Tree Climber's Companion? If not, stay on the ground.


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## boo (Nov 28, 2005)

Redbull said:


> Well, if you know anyone with gear, see if you can try there's on first, if that style isn't comfortable try a different style. Like I said before though, this isn't something you can just run up and do. If these trees have been damaged, you need to be able to assess the stability of the tree and what kind of loads it can handle. Another option is to try and find a good, safe climber ad hire him to climb and train you.



Just let me know if you're interested in using my guys while they're down there. Looking like I'll need to bring them home If they can't stay busy there without me.
You could make money and learn some climbing at the same time!!


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## Tree Machine (Nov 29, 2005)

For sure, dogdad. We like noobs a lot more than you might think, and we just want men to not get hurt.

It's just so easy to get hurt in this business. It's sort of our responsibility to make you look at the realities of this work, though it might feel like a mild flaming. We're just lookin out for ya.


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 29, 2005)

i dont think this is an ego thing, or flaming the newby for asking a question thing. if a nurse went to a surgeon's forum and said, "Well, I've seen brain surgery done many times, and I take care of people post-opp, so what kind of insturments can I buy so that I can do some of this surgery stuff myself? I want to make more money." That would be rediculous because it could possibly result in people getting hurt. Furthermore, surgeons, like certified arborists have serious training and practice before cutting people up so that they do it right and do it safely. Withholding advice is a matter of his and other people's safety and it would be irresponsible to give him the impression that it would be okay to do serious removals without proper training. However, I don't think I should have been so flip earlier with my remark without first explaining what I just said.


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## KentuckySawyer (Nov 29, 2005)




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## xander9727 (Nov 29, 2005)

Dogdad,
You never answered my question...........I'm beginning to feel like I don't matter.


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## GlennG (Nov 29, 2005)

Dogdad,
No one wants you to get hurt or die, thats what this is all about. If you had said I want to learn to climb thats one thing but to go into this tree climbing thing because you got a high bid or... you think there is some money to be made then you may want to rethink things a sec. Your not going to learn the skills you need to do this one job overnight. It takes a while to learn this stuff and it takes a level head to know your limitations. And as time goes by your limitations will become fewer and fewer but remember only fools rush in. Don`t let making money or saving money cloud your judgment. No one wants to see you hurt or worse....

If you want to learn to climb this is the place but learning and earning should never be in the same sentence...or paragrapgh...or even in the same thread for that matter.

Glenn


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## xander9727 (Nov 29, 2005)

I hear it's harder to spend money on a ventilator..............


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## Chronic1 (Nov 30, 2005)

Ummm, I feel more terror driving down interstate 25. Getting out of bed can be deadly. Expert kayakers drown in class 2 waters. What does all this foolishness mean ? What is the sound of one hand clapping ?


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## Chronic1 (Nov 30, 2005)

It's hard to hear them over the scream.


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## fmueller (Nov 30, 2005)

Dogdad, this is actually pretty tame compared to what you would have heard about a year ago on this site. I can hear the squirrel now.


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## kennertree (Nov 30, 2005)

Dogdad, a few here have been kinda rough on ya but I'm sure it has good intentions. To be honest, any gear will work as long as it is safe. Some gear is better than others but gear is gear. Before doing any kind of tree work the first peice of gear anybody needs is the knowledge. Knowing the characteristics of the different speices of wood, knowing how to make cuts, knowing how to use all types of tree equipment, and knowing safety should come first. After that, any kind of gear is good as long as its safe and gets the job done.


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## Tree Frog (Nov 30, 2005)

Wow, what a grilling. Dogdad don't be discuraged at what is going on here. You asked a simple question and are getting the simplest answers. If you read between the lines you will actually find answers. Get the tree climbers companion first. Read it and see if you want to continue or spend the money. Next investigate the different internet retailers such as Sherrils, wesspur, baileys, etc... Get there catalogs and cross reference with the guide and call them to find out what equipment that sells the best and there recommendation.

With that listen to what is being said about SAFE. Don't get second hand anything. This is your life haning by a thread. You will either like what you are doing or not and if the hairs stand up on your neck re-evaluate your situation. Remember "one is none and two is one"

Last insurance companies will raise our rates regardless of who dies or who gets hurt. The reality is that if you die no one here will care nor loose sleep over it. The trick is to use new gear, keep it clean and safe. If there is any question trash it. If you are not comfortable in the situation, walk away.

Good luck in your adventures, everyone has to start somewhere and if I listen to all the hacking I have recieved in my life I wouldn't have the stories that I have now.

Good luck and stay safe (Lots of PPE).


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## boo (Nov 30, 2005)

Hey man,
I'm not doing any bashing at all. We all had to start somewhere. You are in a good place to make some money and provide services to those who are in need.
My offer still stands. You provide the work, and my guys will teach you how to bid jobs, rig, and climb safely, at the same time you will make money. You normally pay for the education one way or another. Normally education is expensive, this is your chance to break those stats. 
If by chance you come up with PLENTY of work, I personally will come down for a short visit to make sure you are headed in the right direction. The more you know about what you're doing helps in selling your services.
I've trained over a dozen climbers through the years that ended up going off on their own. It takes one with good upper body strength, ability to think and pay attention, balance, then you have a chance to make money after you learn the ropes. It's still not for everyone by far.


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## xander9727 (Dec 1, 2005)

Boo,
If he rejects you very generous offer I'll know where he stands in terms of competency...........I wish I'd had an offer like that when I got started.


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## DirtTroll (Dec 1, 2005)

fmueller said:


> Dogdad, this is actually pretty tame compared to what you would have heard about a year ago on this site. I can hear the squirrel now.



I kinda miss ol' RockySquirrel. He suffered no fools and didn't perscribe to this mordern day PC BS.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 1, 2005)

Something that many enterers into our industry don't understand is that tree work is not about the choice of gear alone. You have to be able to maintain and adjust the gear as needed whether it's a flipline or a chainsaw, or some part of your truck. You'd best be a fix-it guy because things break and wear out regularly.

You need to be a problem solver because climbing and rigging are just a series of problems being solved one after another, not that they're problems, per se, but they're points in time where critical decisions need to be made, and if not made correctly, death or destruction may ensue. if you're not a decent problem solver, I would dissuade you from coming in.

There's customer organization, phone lists, record keeping, contact tracking. Then there's the business name register, bank account for the business, and business cards. Just the bare essentials.

Then there's the working with the clients, which can make you or break you. You're not working with trees until you work with the people. Treework is 90% psychology, 10% treework.

Insurance. Must have it. taxes. Must pay them.

Then there's the choosing of the equipment you will use to start out, and I personally recommend *safety gear* before a harness and rope. Don't do tree work without PPE. Period.

Lastly after these basic fundamentals are covered, your education begins. Now you can climb trees and become a tree climber.

If you're gonna enter our industry and be a hack, don't bother. If you wanna buy gear to do this one job, then good luck with that. Let us know how you did. That's how a lot of us got started. All the other parts we figured out along the way. We're giving you an awareness of those other parts on a silver platter, spending time with you to see that you understand what a startup tree service looks like. 

Does this still look like we're rolling you around on the barbecue, or are we sharing our time and offering valuable knowledge? Your perception is your choice.


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## Dadatwins (Dec 1, 2005)

Very generous offer Boo, I hope it is not wasted and a positive business experience comes from it. Tree machine, thanks for reminding me that if I am going to do all those things daily I need to give myself another pay raise. Think I will open a 6-pack and have a management meeting with myself about this. Well dog dad, you have some real good offers and some great advice, any questions or comments? If you got pissed off and ran away from the truth about the Biz then you probably were not ready to get into it anyway. Best of luck.


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## fpyontek (Dec 1, 2005)

It is interesting how Dogdad asks a rather simple question and is pounced upon, all in an effort to protect him from himself ... of course. 
But a homeowner wants to know how to take down a dangerous hollow tree (see homeowner forum) and guys are providing "helpful" ideas on how he can accomplish the project. Including climbing it, winching it over, and the best method for cutting onto the hollow base.

Dogdad, I guess you just happened to be the fresh meat thrown at the pack today. 
Get a copy of the Sherrill Catalog it has a great selection, describes the products and has helpful information.

Fred


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## Dadatwins (Dec 2, 2005)

fpyontek said:


> It is interesting how Dogdad asks a rather simple question and is pounced upon, all in an effort to protect him from himself ... of course.



He may have been pounced on but the advice between the lines was simple, there is a lot more to treework than 'what gear can I buy to start making some extra $$$ in the tree biz?' There were also some very generous offers to help and train him with the work that it seems were rejected at this point.


> But a homeowner wants to know how to take down a dangerous hollow tree (see homeowner forum) and guys are providing "helpful" ideas on how he can accomplish the project. Including climbing it, winching it over, and the best method for cutting onto the hollow base.



I advise any homeowner who wants to remove a tree themselves to get out the yellow pages and call a pro. I also ask why are they removing it. If a pro at this site is trying to teach climbing and tree removal from a chair over the internet shame on them. I have seen many homeowners and part time weekend warriors advise others what they have done and what has worked while removing a tree. 


> Get a copy of the Sherrill Catalog it has a great selection, describes the products and has helpful information.
> 
> Fred



Agreed, the sherrill catolog does offer many good ideas and products, but there is a disclaimer at the front of the catalog that states the equipment used in the catalog is dangerous and should be used properly by trained persons. Isn't that what we have tried to tell Dogdad from the begining?


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## fpyontek (Dec 2, 2005)

Dadatwins said:


> ... Isn't that what we have tried to tell Dogdad from the beginning?



Dadatwins, I wasn't singling out anyone, especially you. I can see if some guy comes in with an attitude, then he's fair game. Sure, you are right about training, that needs to be pointed out. But the message was lost in the barrage of negativity and job protectionism. 
I believe the point of ArboristSite is to convey ideas, especially safety. If the guy goes to another site, as he lamented, ArboristSite lost not only a potential new member but also the chance to make a difference in how he approaches this profession.

Fred


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## Tree Machine (Dec 2, 2005)

Cheers!


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## KentuckySawyer (Dec 2, 2005)

I don't think dogdad is here anymore.

 

...really


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## dogdad (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm still here,,,,,,,,,just reading all the replies. Didn't expect to be preached to. Just because I asked about climbing gear,,,,doesn't mean I am going out the next day and climb. I've been crazy in some of my days ,, but I am not stupid( Exander ) , just curious for now. Of course some of you were nice enough to give me a strait answer ON WHAT I ASKED,,, thanks. For now I'll just make money with my new VERMEER stump grinder and keep removing the downed trees with my skid loader..........but one day ........


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## Redbull (Dec 2, 2005)

Dogdad, I am glad you were able to read between the BS, and hopefully understand that MOST of us were speaking on behalf of safety. There have been some offers here that could provide you with a great opportunity to learn a great trade and make some money too, all while under the watchful :Eye: of a pro. Pick up some gear, MAKE the time to do some recreational climbing, and go from there. 1)Be safe, 2)have fun, and 3)make some money in the long run. If you focus on the first two, the third point will likely fall into place


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## Tree Machine (Dec 3, 2005)

Good summary, RedBull.


Speaking of VERMEER stump grinders, I can offer some more unsolicited advice on something you didn't ask.....

Pretty much no matter what you or anybody else asks, you're gonna get the safety speel. We care about our fellow tree worker, whether Pro or novice. It is our responsibility to guide you properly, and it starts with safety.

We really do wish you day to day success, and although this is your thread, dogdad, there are a slew of others who read it. The message is as much for them as it is for you.


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## dogdad (Dec 3, 2005)

Tree Machine .......read that weeks ago............ believe me ......I'm very safety conscious......for myself....as well as others AND their property. Not that age matters here,,,,,,, but I've been around as long as some of you and longer than alot of you.....my point: Life is short and I don't take it for granted as many seem to.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Dec 3, 2005)

I hear Marks & Spencer do a great range in saddles


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## Redbull (Dec 3, 2005)

I like my Nwe Tribe saddle, but the I'm kinda partial since the only other saddle I've used is a Buckingham with a butt strap which is real uncomfortable. I use a New England Safety Blue Hi-Vee rope or a Yale Blaze rope. Silky handsaws, Echo trim saw, & Gecko gaffs. That pretty much sums up my climbing kit except for a few extra things. So...as far as brand goes, it depends on your budget and climbing style. About the only gear you'll hear a brand war about here are chainsaws. I'm a Husky guy for my big saw


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## xander9727 (Dec 3, 2005)

Dogdad,
I'm just breaking your shoes..........don't take it personal, but.........don't take safety lightly. It is easy to get hurt doing what you know, but it's easier if your doing something your not an expert in. You seem to own the larger equipment. Hire a climber to work for you part time. It's hard to orchestrate the ground from the tree. You'll make more money and have less headaches if you run the equipment and have others climb and chip.

My $.02


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