# Carlton 4012 vs Bandit 2450; What I bought, AND, why!!



## Mowingman (Apr 22, 2012)

If you have followed some of my posts, you know I sold my 7015trx so I could retire. I then decided to just semi retire, so was in the market for a smaller, wheeled stump grinder. I researched the Bandit 2450 and Carlton 4012 machines, and decided this was the size I wanted to go with. Now, which to choose?? 
The local bandit dealer was very good to work with, and brought out a machine 3 times. The remote control machine had some hydraulic problems the first time, so they fixed that and brought it back a second time. Had a good demo, but found the whole hydraulic system to be very quirky. When speed adjustemnt valve was set for travel, it was too fast for grinding. When set for a slow speed to advance into a stump, it would stall on even a small chip pile. Constant adjustment was required as once you hit the remote button, you had all or nothing. No feathering of flow was possible. Also found that when swing control valve was set for slow as for grinding, it traveled at one speed to the left, and a different speed to the right. No way to control speed evenly again, as remote switch did not allow feathering of the controls. Finally, the machine has some standard feature where you set the amount of lowering you want the wheel to do each time you hit the up/down remote button. This was VERY annoying, as I usually want to vary the amount of lowering with each pass, depending on how the stump is cutting.
One more thing. The control panel is not equipped with a temp gauge. This is something I think is quite important when running a liquid-cooled diesel in a dirty/dusty environment.
Well, salesman brought out a lever control model and I ground a large stump with it. The hydraulic oddities still were present, but could be easily overcome by feathering the flow with the manual control levers.
So, in summary, I decided the Bandit remote control model was not acceptable. If I wanted a Bandit, it would have to be a lever control model.
There was no way to demo a Carlton 4012, but I did talk with several owners who were very pleased with their remote controled 4012's. I have owned a Carlton machine and was totally satasfied with it. I was sure this 4012 would work to my liking, but, I could not get one for 5 weeks. So, what to do.
Bandit, the good: Available immediately, got to actually grind with two of them, local factory support, has 4x4 standard.
Bandit, the bad: Remote control machine totally unacceptable, no temperature gauge, & not available with the Sandvic wheel.
Carlton, the good: Remote works smoothly as it should, I am familiar with the bigger Carlton machine and have no concerns about the design or operation of this model, has the Sandvic wheel.
Carlton, the bad: A wait of 4-5 weeks to get one, have not had a hands on experience with this model, no local dealer, shipping cost from factory.
I decided on the Carltot 4012, with remote and Sandvic wheel. I chose this machine mainly due to 2 factors.
1. I no longer want to grind without a remote control setup, and the Bandit remote control machine, in my opinion, does not work properly due to hydraulic issues.
2. I really love the Sandvic wheel cutting system

I am meeting the Carlton sales guy tomorrow, at a halfway point between the factory and my home, to take delivery of the new machine. Can't wait to put it to work. I have over 20 jobs backlogged and ready to go. Will report back on how it performs in a week or so.
Jeff


----------



## dodge diesel (Apr 22, 2012)

Congratulations on your new carlton Looking forward to your reports on how it works for you.


----------



## Creeker (Apr 22, 2012)

Good call Jeff, you won't be sorry to have selected the SP4012. What motor did you get, I'd love to try the 44hp Kubota out.....:msp_smile:

My SP4012 has the 33hp Kubota and is a quick and handy machine. The only time you'll wish you had your old (larger) machine is when the real large stumps come along. Your new one will do them all, just takes a few more bites to get it done.

BTW, mine cost Au$38K in 2008 & runs a standard cutter wheel with greenteeth.

The hydraulic issues you had with the Bandit won't be a problem, I find the groundspeed adjustment coupled with the two speed button on the remote a very good feature. If you're deep into a stump and the wheels are in a heap of chip/dirt the low speed will push on regardless.

Watch the radiator, they get covered in wood chips due to the air flow from the fan and if working hard will reduce air flow enough to boil the motor.

Some stumps its not a problem, others have lighter bark, eg our paper barks, and then it pays to have to garden blower handy and take a few seconds to blow it clean.

A couple of pics of the new machine would be good :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Mowingman (Apr 22, 2012)

I am getting the 44HP diesel on mine. Should be plenty of power for the average size stumps I grind.
Jeff


----------



## Creeker (Apr 22, 2012)

*Drool.....*

:msp_smile::msp_smile: 44hp, that would be very interesting to work for a day and see how the increase over the 33hp actually delivers, it sounds great Jeff, good luck with it mate !!


----------



## Bigstumps (Apr 22, 2012)

I own a 33HP Remote machine - very happy.

Congratulations!


----------



## stumper63 (Apr 23, 2012)

Jeff, are they about $36K with the wireless? Is the Carlton remote on the 4012's proportional, or whatever they call it, that lets you sort of "feather" the controls from the remote? I can't remember from when I demo'ed the 33hp 4012 back in '07, seemed like it worked really well though. Keep us posted, and send a few pic's so we all can enjoy the new arrival.

Stumper63


----------



## Mowingman (Apr 24, 2012)

My cost was $33,050, out the door,(remote, 44hp kubota, and sandvic wheel), plus, free delivery to a meeting point halfway between my house and the factory. This saved me a ton of money in shiping charges.
The remote works just like the one on my previous 7015TRX. Remote operation is very smooth, but you really do not "feather the controls with the remote switches. There is a control valve to fine tune the travel speed and the swing speed to your liking. This is what allows for such smooth remote operation in my opinion.
Plan to grind my first stumps tomorrow with it.
Jeff


----------



## acme0007 (Apr 29, 2012)

Not trying to highjack just looking for answers. I have a carlton 4012 with the 33hp Kubota. Last fall it over-heated, cracked head. Finally saved up enough this spring to fix it. Ground three stumps, main belt did something and chewed it up. Ordered new belt no dealer here, $100 plus. Ground out one stump, belt started smoking and took off cover, mother $#%$$$%%^^%, belt blew a band. Tried to use it the way it was and the adjuster for belt tension cracked in half, the turnbuckle thing on the right below motor. Put the handy Vise Grips on and clamped in place long enough to finish the job.
What the hell is this thing blowing belts for? The machine only has 178 hours on it. This is the third belt and now I need a new one thats 4 at over a hundred bucks. I aligened the two pullys with a straight edge, and thought the tension was correct. Could it be that the keepers are too close? I can't take it to the dealer their isn't one anywhere close at all. I can't afford belts like this, my vermere never once went through a belt. I am very pissed!
Anybody else have this problem? 
Thanks Acme


----------



## Creeker (Apr 29, 2012)

Acme0007. Have a look at......... http://www.arboristsite.com/large-equipment/177114.htm


----------



## Mowingman (Apr 29, 2012)

Ok, I am going to tell you my thoughts here, then, I am going to suggest how to get this problem fixed.
1. you are blaming the machine for these problems, when it is actually your fault, or the fault of whoever fixed the engine.
2. The engine failed due to negligence of the operator. It was not checked for coolant level, was run on too steep of a slope, or the radiator was not kept clean.
2. now, the belt failures are the result of reinstalling or adjusting the engine properly on the frame after the engine repairs were made.
3. after the first belt failed, that should have told you something right there. These belts do not fail at low hours just for no reason.
4. you should have never kept replacing belts and just ignoring the problem behind the failures.
5. you should have called Carlton customer service and discussed the problem in detail with them right from the first failure.
now, how to fix this.
1. Read the info in the posts mentioned above.
2. Call Carlton customer service and explain your problem in detail. They will help you get it corrected.
3. Find a local power transmission shop and order your belts from them. Lots cheaper.
Good luck and hope you get back to grinding soon.
Jeff


----------



## Creeker (Apr 29, 2012)

Hows the new ROLLS ROYCE of the SP4012's going Jeff ?

:smile2:


----------



## Mowingman (Apr 29, 2012)

*first week with the new 4012*

I picked up the machine on Monday. Only a short, 20 hour roundtrip to get it home. It was worth it though.
I have a backlog of about 30 stump jobs. Worked about 2.5 hours each day, (between morning and afternoon school bus driving), starting Tues, and worked a long day on Sat.
This machine is different than my big 7015trx, and a little learning curve is involved here. It has plenty of power, I hardly notice the difference in downsizing from 60hp to this 44hp diesel. The Kubota is much quieter, as it has a muffler, which the Duetz did not have. The Kubota uses a lot less fuel/hour. I do not have an exact figure yet, but it is very stingy on fuel use. I worked on all sizes of stumps from about 40" diam, down to 12" diam., and some were very hard types of wood. Never a lack of power.
I really miss the zero turn capability of the track machine. The turning circle of the 4012 is very broad. However, I am doing better and relearning how to do sharp turns by using the cutter wheel swing, to move the tail end around in tight spots.
I did one job on a construction site with very uneven and rough ground. Missed the tracks here, but I rarely do this kind of work. I was able to get to all the stumps, but just had to do more manuevering.
On the big stumps, I missed the wide cutter swing the 7015 had. It took a little longer to do the big ones, as I had to reposition the machine some to do the wide part of the stumps. Again, not a real problem, as I hardly ever do really big stumps anymore.
I really like the smaller overall size and the lighter weight of the machine. Also, it is super easy to remove the outside tires for going into small gates.
All in all, no regrets at all on downsizing to the 4012. I am glad i got the 44hp engine though, as it will power through the stumps just as well as the 60hp did it seems.
By the end of the week, I had averaged the same income/hour as I did with my big 7015, and used less fuel.
I think this machine is going to be perfect for my "semi retirement" stump grinding business.
Jeff


----------



## Creeker (Apr 30, 2012)

Sounds like its working out very well, great news Jeff !

The slew width is limiting at times, I regularly have to shift several times to chase up roots and would really like a machine that was better in that area.

The remote is the only way to go, hope it continues to be a good machine for you and make a few $$'s...........:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Ga. Stumpman (May 8, 2012)

How is it going with the new machine? I have been thinking about the same one you have, would like to know how it is working out. Please keep me updated.


----------



## Mowingman (May 12, 2012)

Ga. Stumpman,
I am very happy with the machine so far. I have 18 hours on it, and have done 85 stumps. Stumps were mostly in the 18" diam size. However, I have done 5 stumps that are probably the largest i have ever done in my 10 years of stump grinding. These were in the 48" + diam size range. I was afraid this machine would have a hard time on the big ones, but it did very well. I love the lighter weight, smaller size, lower fuel use and faster travel of this machine compared to my 7015 TRX. I find very little difference in performance of the 44HP engine compared to the 60HP Deutz. The Kubota is much quieter, so I can start grinding earlier in the morning, without fear of waking the whole neighborhood.
I do miss the wider cutter head swing of the 7015 when doing big stumps. I also miss the zero turn capability that I had with the track machine, compared to a wheel machine.
Overall, I am very happy with my decision to downsize to the 4012.
Jeff


----------



## Ga. Stumpman (May 12, 2012)

Sounds good, seems like the cat's meow to me. If I get another one that is probably what it will be. The only thing I would do different is to get it with 4WD. Lot of hills where I live. Hardly ever work in a flat yard.


----------



## Mowingman (May 12, 2012)

If you have hills, I would highly recommend the 4x4 option. 
Jeff



Ga. Stumpman said:


> Sounds good, seems like the cat's meow to me. If I get another one that is probably what it will be. The only thing I would do different is to get it with 4WD. Lot of hills where I live. Hardly ever work in a flat yard.


----------

