# Rigging Whole Trees with the GRCS - Presented by TreeStuff.com



## bonner1040 (Jun 12, 2013)

TreeStuff.com Tech Tips: Rigging Whole Tree with the GRCS - YouTube


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 13, 2013)

*And now for a word from our sponsor....*

Sorry, but these are getting a little old. Not to mention ya'll sure seem to need a lot of crap to take down some pretty easy trees.


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Jun 13, 2013)

The double tree rig system is great. If there are trees near to use. Usually just one tree close. Use whats available. In large removals and storm work the GRC shines. Which is time and money. I still see crews with no portawrap. Go figure! To each there own.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 13, 2013)

I been rigging whole trees for years without grcs besides My 20 ton winch is better lol :monkey: 


One thing this practice will sure shorten the ropes life.


----------



## ClimbMIT (Jun 13, 2013)

Looks like it would be handy for very small diameter pines that are really tall, and located in a tight drop zone.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 13, 2013)

ClimbMIT said:


> Looks like it would be handy for very small diameter pines that are really tall, and located in a tight drop zone.



Only time I use that trick is on hung dead snags as using it indiscriminately, jeopardizes rope integrity.


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 13, 2013)

I hang trees all the time, I just don't make such a production out of it


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks Bonner, liked it....might get GRCS someday soon


----------



## imagineero (Jun 14, 2013)

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I feel this sort of promotional material - basically advertising under the thin veil of some marginally interesting/possibly slightly educational for new guys type posting doesn't really belong in the commercial tree care and climbing forum. There's been similar inroads made in the F&L forum by treestuff also, which has been received with mixed feelings. A precedent is being set.

I certainly appreciate treestuff's sponsorship, and I spend my $ with sponsors wherever I can. Not just as a way of showing my appreciation, but I feel that people who sponsor this site often go the extra mile with customer service, and generally have a good understanding of the products they're selling and understand the industry also. 

I think there's a line somewhere though, but I can't say where it is. My personal feeling is that this sort of post really belongs in the treestuff forum, or possibly in the tree videos forum. If you do allow this sort of posting to be done, regularly, where does it stop? advertising in between each post as some sites have? Compulsory 'watch advertisement before posting' stuff like youtube has? There are some sponsors who post in regular threads as a response to people, offering help... and that sort of thing I find really encouraging to see. I've received some helpful information from one of the sponsors here (was it global equipment? the heavy equipment seller) which is certainly welcome. This sort of post is a bit of a different thing though. I'd be interested in hearing what the general consensus is.

Shaun


----------



## kevin bingham (Jun 14, 2013)

I thought it was a good, short, informative video. There isn't anything really anything more interesting that people are talking about over here. Or is there? Guide me to that thread. most of the threads at arborisite are about people calling eachother names. I pretty much stop reading a thread after the original post because pretty much every thread devolves into a hater fest. What do you want people to talk about? Good lord, now im getting all negative. its contagious. So... Props to Nick for taking the time to make a video showing how he does things. I personally love my grcs and can't imagine how I used to do tree work without it.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jun 14, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I feel this sort of promotional material - basically advertising under the thin veil of some marginally interesting/possibly slightly educational for new guys type posting doesn't really belong in the commercial tree care and climbing forum. There's been similar inroads made in the F&L forum by treestuff also, which has been received with mixed feelings. A precedent is being set.
> 
> I certainly appreciate treestuff's sponsorship, and I spend my $ with sponsors wherever I can. Not just as a way of showing my appreciation, but I feel that people who sponsor this site often go the extra mile with customer service, and generally have a good understanding of the products they're selling and understand the industry also.
> 
> ...


I see what yur sayin, maybe more appropriate in the 101 section.


----------



## imagineero (Jun 14, 2013)

kevin bingham said:


> most of the threads at arboristsite are about people calling eachother names.



Them's fighting words! 

I've always respected and admired the effort you put into the industry, your work ethic, and the contributions you make online (mostly at other forums!). I hear what you're saying too, and this place would be a better place if more guys like you posted more often here. People do need a to lay off some steam though too, and I guess this place kind of reflects how it's like to work in the industry. It isn't always the most supportive work environment, and you've got to go through a lot of punishment and suffering to get a little nugget of info ;-) 

Shaun


----------



## kevin bingham (Jun 14, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Them's fighting words!
> 
> I've always respected and admired the effort you put into the industry, your work ethic, and the contributions you make online (mostly at other forums!). I hear what you're saying too, and this place would be a better place if more guys like you posted more often here. People do need a to lay off some steam though too, and I guess this place kind of reflects how it's like to work in the industry. It isn't always the most supportive work environment, and you've got to go through a lot of punishment and suffering to get a little nugget of info ;-)
> 
> Shaun



True, it takes a thick skin to be a tree worker!


----------



## imagineero (Jun 14, 2013)

kevin bingham said:


> True, it takes a thick skin to be a tree worker!



I was half tempted to quote your post with a response like "said the pot to the kettle" :msp_razz: 

I give big respect to anybody who skids logs with a bike though.


----------



## bonner1040 (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. The video is not meant as in your face advertising content. Like any movie there are credits and since TreeStuff makes it possible to produce the content they get their due. Just like the Fox Searchlight Intro, Universal Pictures Intro, and the Disney Intro (to name a few of the hundreds of examples).

Fox Searchlight Intro 1080p 3D - YouTube
Universal Pictures Intro HD 1080p - YouTube
Walt Disney Movie Intro (HD) - YouTube
(all three of which are almost twice the length of the 16 second Treestuff intro)

Beyond the opening and closing credits the focus of my productions has been,and will always be, on quality technique and innovations in equipment.

If the consensus is that the videos shouldnt be in the Commercial forum, then wherever the membership thinks they fit best works for me. 

I really appreciate everyone watching and contributing their thoughts. Not all video content can address everyone, some of the audience will invariably be extremely familiar with demonstrated techniques but we should remember that at the same time there are assuredly people that havent seen techniques and methods of the sort. 

It takes a lot of time and effort to produce a video, and in most cases there isnt any 'take 2' in the filming. I can only show what we actually did. I am a working arborist, not a salaried video maker. I enjoy taking the time to document and craft the storytelling using video and I truly hope that everyone enjoys watching it. Thanks for your time!

Nick


----------



## nelson727 (Jun 16, 2013)

Wherever you decide to place videos like this is fine with me, just please let me know. 


For the last 30 plus years I thought I was supposed to climb as high as I dared in trees like that and let 20 foot tops rip down past my shoulder as they spear into the ground. I don’t feel dumb but, I am glad to be learning some new tricks.


----------



## B Harrison (Jun 16, 2013)

TY, was very good instructional vid.


----------



## kevin bingham (Jun 17, 2013)

I always attempt to set the block in the tree so it will not put four times the force on the crotch. And 2 times the weight on supporting line. This is not Always possible because of tight crotches or hard isolations. I have used a leather tube cambium saver before and that can be useful for this. I have not burned one but i suppose it could be very possible. There are also rigging rings which can be set from the ground. Piggybacking the pulleys is sort of the last option for me but many times it is the Only option. Dry crotching is really terrible for the tree being rigged off of. Even the supporting line in the video can tear up the crotch if there is any kind of flex in the tree. It can cause significant long term damage.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 17, 2013)

Again taking ropes to four times working load limits is not a good practice so this trick is best suited for use on hung snags or where a hazard exists for a climber to piece out smaller. I think making these type productions without explaining the whole picture could mislead some unfortunate soul into thinking this should be every day practice.


----------



## kevin bingham (Jun 17, 2013)

Not teaching because the information might be misused is a bad reason to not teach or share. It was a perfectly good technique for the tree being hung in this video. If somebody approached a tree like nick did where everything was within working loads its a good option to know. Can you make a video that demonstrates another technique? There are many good options I'm sure. I would love to learn other methods. Next time I am hanging a tree I will try to film how I solve the problem that particular day.


----------



## imagineero (Jun 17, 2013)

It's a useful technique for sure, it doesnt get used all that often, and unless you've got some pulleys for rigging mechanical advantage you really need to have a GRCS or a friction drum. The issue of the mechanical disadvantage created by setting a floating pulley from the ground has already been covered, so I won't go over that again. Realistically, on most smaller trees I find it's not really worth the time to use this technique anyhow. By the time you set the drum and rigging, you could have just spiked the smaller tree and blocked it down. It comes in handy for me occasionally more as a technique of convenience if the drum is already rigged, and happens to be available... maybe I was doing some weight reduction or other trimming on the larger tree. And on the way down, I can top rig the smaller tree then take it out from the ground, or I can top rig it and a ground guy can cut it. 

The other time I often use this technique is with trees that have multiple leaders, and no room to block down. You can spike to the top, set rigging, top tie in one of the leaders and someone on the ground can cut it. You can take all of the leaders except 1 out this way, with no ground impact. That means you save a lot of time rigging. When using that technique, I usually rig a 2:1 if the leaders are big, using this method;

http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/204030.htm

It doubles the holding/lifting capacity of both your drum, and your rope.

Shaun


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 17, 2013)

imagineero said:


> It's a useful technique for sure, it doesnt get used all that often, and unless you've got some pulleys for rigging mechanical advantage you really need to have a GRCS or a friction drum. The issue of the mechanical disadvantage created by setting a floating pulley from the ground has already been covered, so I won't go over that again. Realistically, on most smaller trees I find it's not really worth the time to use this technique anyhow. By the time you set the drum and rigging, you could have just spiked the smaller tree and blocked it down. It comes in handy for me occasionally more as a technique of convenience if the drum is already rigged, and happens to be available... maybe I was doing some weight reduction or other trimming on the larger tree. And on the way down, I can top rig the smaller tree then take it out from the ground, or I can top rig it and a ground guy can cut it.
> 
> The other time I often use this technique is with trees that have multiple leaders, and no room to block down. You can spike to the top, set rigging, top tie in one of the leaders and someone on the ground can cut it. You can take all of the leaders except 1 out this way, with no ground impact. That means you save a lot of time rigging. When using that technique, I usually rig a 2:1 if the leaders are big, using this method;
> 
> ...



Poor sling  Anyway I most of the time feel taking it out smaller makes everything more manageable of course I'm a two man show so the groundie at times lowers and steers! I sometimes set my porty in high and lower to him or natural rig which I find very fast no setting up just cut a stub wrap and rig. With my wraptor it's simple to just go to top and bomb out chipper sized then work my way down.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 17, 2013)

kevin bingham said:


> Not teaching because the information might be misused is a bad reason to not teach or share. It was a perfectly good technique for the tree being hung in this video. If somebody approached a tree like nick did where everything was within working loads its a good option to know. Can you make a video that demonstrates another technique? There are many good options I'm sure. I would love to learn other methods. Next time I am hanging a tree I will try to film how I solve the problem that particular day.



What I'm saying is the actual weight of green trees whole can easily be over working load especially at tip. To use this indiscriminately can set the stage for tip failure or rope failure putting the ground help in danger. It is a great trick I have used off and on since the 80s but it's not or is it ever going to be a staple in my day to day operations. In this situation I bet money it would of been faster to climb and bomb than to set all that bs up for two easy trees. Like I said it has its time and place and for me its hung snags or dead hazard trees.


----------

