# Chipper fatality



## jimmyq (Jul 20, 2005)

I havent seen this one posted here yet so here goes;

40 year old tree person was killed by a chipper in Richmond BC Canada the other day. link is here:

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/van....html?id=97d544bb-e3a8-459f-814f-38bbba9b8de2

Like I tell my landscape help, when there is a chipper running on site, stay at least 10 [email protected]%@%@ feet away from it, period. I have printed this news clip and handed it to each of the guys that work for me so it hits home how dangerous these machines are.


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## jimmyq (Jul 20, 2005)

For those who don't like links here is the text:
"A routine tree-cutting job for three private contractors outside a busy Richmond plaza turned tragic Friday when one of the workers was killed in the wood chipper.

The victim, a 40-year-old Vancouver man, was working outside Union Square plaza at 8388 Capstan Way.

Richmond RCMP Sgt. Ron Paysen said the man was feeding tree branches into the chipper while his two colleagues were in a tree cutting branches.

"The two people in the tree looked down to see that their friend wasn't around and that the machine had stalled, so they immediately came down and found what was in the machine was just a pair of boots ..."

RCMP, the Workers' Compensation Board and the coroner's office were at the scene. A ladder was leaning against the truck containing wood chips, and investigators dressed in hooded body suits, boots and masks attempted to recover body parts.

Paysen said RCMP and the WCB were investigating.

James Ho, an employee of Rever L'image Salon, whose window overlooks the tree, said he saw the man's colleagues crying.

"My female co-worker actually fainted when she heard what happened," said Ho. "She was shocked."

RCMP will not release the man's name until his family is notified."


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## Ekka (Jul 20, 2005)

That's terrible, poor bugger, there's just too many bad accidents over there lately ... what's going on?


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## Lifesabeach (Jul 21, 2005)

Just GHASTLY to think about...

_poor bugger_


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## notahacker (Jul 23, 2005)

*Do you think it was a "chuck 'n duck?"*

Chuck 'n Duck type of chippers are highly productive, but I don't like the fact that they are highly dangerous. I was working with a guy with one and a small stub on a branch caught his glove. It pulled his glove off before he could even react! Why are those chippers still in operation?


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## Toddppm (Jul 23, 2005)

I bet $100.00 it wasn't a chuck and duck.


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## jimmyq (Jul 23, 2005)

I have heard it was a short deck Bandit. thats basically chinese to me but it seemed to make sense to the guy who told me. Said they arent supposed to be used here anymore or something?


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## techdave (Jul 23, 2005)

Hi Jimmy, short deck means the table or deck that leads into the rotating assembly is short. If the feeder is feeding straight in instead of from the sides of the table he is not far from that terrible, inescapable, and remorseless maw.

Longer deck plus safety bar equals some chance to not get munched. I did do some labor for a man who offered operated rental of his chuck and duck on Sat to home owners for 60 bucks and hour with 30 dollar minimum. Rule was homeowner brings stuff to curb, i feed him and/or align butts of trimmings so he can pick em up easy, and KEEP the people away. he never fed from behind=just from sides of deck, wore only running shoes, old flimsy dolphin shorts, tank tops, and fingerless cotton gloves precut along back of hand. PPE helmet. Master side feeder. Very safe. I have heard of independents where if groundie is touching the limbs when they go in get 1x warning, 2x = fired. Must cut very straight and neat pieces to get feed without jamming on the table? i just dont feed unless I have to, and try to not feed 1 until previous is gone Just my 2 cents, dave,.


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## jimmyq (Jul 24, 2005)

thanks Dave, good info.


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## sedanman (Jul 24, 2005)

About 18 years ago I helped a friend clear property for his house. We had his fathers chipper on site for brush disposal. At the time I thought the chuck-n-duck was the most dangerous piece of equimpent I had ever seen, I now belive it to be safer than a lot of the self feeding ones. I saw the chuck-n-duck lose its grip on on some limbs and we'd have to re-feed them if they were long enough. I have never seen a self feeder let go of anything it got a grip on.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jul 24, 2005)

My guess, from personal experience using both for years, is that "Chuck and Duck" type chippers are much more likely to cause injury, while hydraulic feed chippers are much more likely to kill you.


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## techdave (Jul 24, 2005)

*safeties for hydraulic feed?*

Hi guys, this thread has got me thinking. The stop feed bar on the hydraulic feeds could have extensions or other bars nearer the rear and sides of the feed deck, right? There could even be handheld item like garage opener remote that causes infeed to stop or reverse if pressed. 

In the same vein it seems a glove could be warn by feed persons where if the glove is crushed the infeed stops or reverses. siognal from the glove must be recieved by the machine or infeed automatically reverses. Again like optics for GDO. 

IF IF IF the control solenoids for the hydraulics can be electrocontrolled as opposed to manuallly, the electronic part is already in the common chamberlain/sears/liftmaster gdo. Any tree guys in SD CA area want to try to rig it up let me know.


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## RedlineIt (Jul 24, 2005)

We discussed this accident at our last safety meeting. (My new employer has a safety meeting once a week. I like my new employer!)

Richmond B.C. is not far from here. Apparently, it was a Vermeer 1230.

As I recall, those had the typical Vermeer vertical feed rolls.


*techdave*

I like the track you're on, but isn't a crushed glove about 12 -20" too late?

What about proximity sensors? Hmm...

RedlineIt


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## jerseydevil (Jul 24, 2005)

well, you all know as well as i do, all the safety gadgets under the sun won't help when people start modifications and disconnections. Couple that with owners who refuse to pay for proper maintenance and repair. Not trying to be a downer but just wanted to offer my educated 2 cents. I am not a tree pro but i have repaired many chippers for the pros and rental houses. The bottom line is at best even with all saftey gear intact, someone is gonna get hurt, but those who are knowlegable and educated will stand a better chance of going home in one piece. This story begs the question, how well was this man trained to use this equipment and what other accidents was he involved in in the past (No point in playing the blame game so we won't, For all i know he was the inventor of the wood chipper)? Here is an example, I once met a 20ish year old guy who lost most of his hand to a chipper because, you guessed it he was wearing gloves while feeding. I also work with a guy who ???? near broke an arm wearing gloves while operating a commercial drain snake. he really didn't know how to operate the thing and when it wrapped around and twisted the heck out of his arm, he didn't know how to reverse it. So if you took the time to read all this, then think about it and make sure all employees are educated on proper operation of equipment. Whew...


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## techdave (Jul 26, 2005)

Hi Redline, I agree that it would be good to use proximity sensor. i was just following a crude train of thought from existing design to an improved one (better stumpy than dead). I think I could make such a design work if I had some $$$ a few college kids to help with the MechEng stuff as my degree is 20 years old and I am not the micro electronics guy. ROFLMAO at understatement.

my brainstorming has developed other ideas like pressure sensing or weighing or conductive mat around machine and maybe special pads on feeding guy's (aka feeder)shoes. If computer doesnt sense the right input from mat the infeed reverses and/or the shredder stops. Control parameter could be: weight on pad is less than weight of feeder, feeder is on the mat but dont have both feet on the ground, feet are on the mat but not in the designated zone to feed from, etc.

The technology is out there to stop the vast majority of these injuries and deaths. I believe if these were the children of my college-educated brethren getting killed instead of my fellow grunts who sweat for a living most of this problem would have been solved long ago. Unfortunately changes would cost money, but I am guessing it shold add no more than 500 to 1000 to machine cost once a final design hit full production. 

Just my 2 cents, Dave.


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## techdave (Jul 26, 2005)

*chipper safety*

Hi Jersey devil, I agree some people will always defeat safeties. My favorite is the guys who ask how to defeat craftsman riding mower seat switch becasue engine dies when they get off the seat to open a gate/move hose/etc. DUH! read the book, just turn off the blades and set the brake...engine will keeep running on almost all of them!

I also agree that many times operators are not trained, or safety rules are not enforced by employers with the zeal of say, how timeclock regulations are enfored. I guess I never thought about it before this thread, but there I am not willing to accept the current level of deaths and injuries.

just my two cents, but we should bvbe able to go forwards for better chipper safety, after all fiber-chaps and chainbrakes were developed for chainsaws.. why not chipper improivemnents too??


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## jerseydevil (Jul 26, 2005)

Hey Dave, I totally agree with you. I should hope that all equipment manufactures have think tanks working on ways to increase the safety of their products. I also think many safety features were first developed and used by people like yourself, who have no connection to the manufacturer.
I hope I wasn't to long winded, or negative in my last post. I was just upset to read such a sad story. 
Later on, JD


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## techdave (Jul 27, 2005)

*safety equip f chippers*

Hi JD, no problems brother, I did not think you were being negative or long winded. The truth IS there are lots of folks out there who just wont do things the safe way. As you pointed out a good many of them will try to defeat stuff done to protect them. Taint nuttin we can do about it, or as I tell my trainee Lawn and Garden techs: "All you can do is warn them of unsafe stuff and notate it on the service order--you cant make them want their foot more than the 50 bucks for the discharg guard"


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## RedlineIt (Jul 30, 2005)

Techdave,

Glad to see you're still thinking about this. A mat around the chipper in-feed is a no-go. It will never stay in place. The same branch irregularities that the in-feed operator must regularly dodge would pull the mats up into the chipper, pronto!

Anything we come up with has to be industry bulletproof.

RF proximity sensors as used in the oil drilling industry look promising.

Expensive, but promising.


RedlineIt


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## timberwolf150 (Jul 30, 2005)

In the UK new regulations about roller / hyd chippers has been in place since October 2000. It requires the feed funnel and tray to be a minimum of 1500mm from the feed rollers and the safety bar has to cover all of the feed edge and 75% of the sides. It has made feeding the chipper slightly more difficult but you soon get use to it. There have only been two serious accidents since it's introduction and they were down to idiot operators standing on the feed tray. All chippers whatever country they are imported from have to be modified to comply. Bandit and Vermeer as sold in the US would be illegal to use in the UK without being modified. Have posted some pics of a Timberwolf chipper. These are the most popular chippers in the UK this being the 7.5" tracked model. The red bar is purely a stop / safety bar. The forward and reverse controls are located on the top of the feed funnel. Very easy and safe to use.


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## Thor's Hammer (Jul 30, 2005)

HaHa! look at that little toy chipper!


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## Thor's Hammer (Jul 30, 2005)

Sorry mr TW, could'nt help myself. very naughty of me


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## timberwolf150 (Jul 30, 2005)

Thor trying to teach safety, doesn't matter size of chipper.


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## timberwolf150 (Jul 30, 2005)

Thor. I remember that picture of the chipper you made that you posted. Scarey!!!


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## timberwolf150 (Jul 30, 2005)

Pictures of a larger chipper. 10" on the left just to keep thor happy.


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## TreeJunkie (Jul 30, 2005)

TW, 

Don't you guys make log splitters? Maybe stick w/ that. Give me a break-6" capacity tracked chippers. I'm sure that's a big seller.


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## timberwolf150 (Jul 31, 2005)

No Timberwolf UK make chippers only. Timberwolf Corp in America make wood processing equip etc. In the UK 70% of chippers sold are under 8" capacity. Most popular size is 6". Things done very differently to you guys over the pond.


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## techdave (Jul 31, 2005)

Hi Redline, i meant deployed alongside the machine on the ground in the feed area. I allus would like to feed from the side, and if I cant I would like 2 cut the piece with saw til I can. If dudes feet are not putting at least say 100 pounds of force on the mat the chipper stops or outfeeds. Just another brainstorm idea. Lets keep em coming.


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