# Don't hate the Wraptor....



## NYSawBoss (Oct 19, 2011)

I know there were some critics to the introduction of the Wraptor into an arborists arsenal of tools. However, watch this video and see how it can vastly increase production. 85' Vertical ascent into a massive Sycamore. We had to prune 5 of these and all of them are about 100+ feet tall. Major energy conservation.

Tree Pro Wraptor - YouTube

Anthony


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 19, 2011)

*Nice spikes.*

I don't doubt the wraptor's effectiveness. Looks like a good tool. My main thing is I never buy the first model of anything. There will always be better versions in the works and hopefully at a cheaper price. Seems the concept of the wraptor is fairly simple and the price tag a bit high. I want to see what other manufacturers do to improve upon the design and hopefully lower the cost.


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## Grace Tree (Oct 19, 2011)

I mounted a CB radio and a drink holder on mine. 10-4?
Phil


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## treevet (Oct 19, 2011)

Wraptor has already evolved thru a number of prototypes and he settled on current offering;. Been round for couple of years and mine is nearing 2 years. Been up there hunerds of times with it. Rides in the passenger of my pickup with a seat belt secured (thought bout a baby carrier land a blanky).

If I were king of Wraptordom, I'd improve on the vulnerability of the spark plug. We broke one and bound to happen again . Boot gets unsecured at times too. Just a ittoo bitty fall from perfection.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 19, 2011)

You should of took your spikes off for the video, 
are you a Hack?
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 19, 2011)

NYSawBoss said:


> I know there were some critics to the introduction of the Wraptor into an arborists arsenal of tools. However, watch this video and see how it can vastly increase production. 85' Vertical ascent into a massive Sycamore. We had to prune 5 of these and all of them are about 100+ feet tall. Major energy conservation.
> 
> Tree Pro Wraptor - YouTube
> 
> Anthony


 
So you wear spikes and still need the wraptor to trim a tree , and thats all I have say about that , sounds like a RC car and I am not really that impressed with it ... JUST SAYING


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## mr. holden wood (Oct 19, 2011)

NYSawBoss said:


> I know there were some critics to the introduction of the Wraptor into an arborists arsenal of tools. However, watch this video and see how it can vastly increase production. 85' Vertical ascent into a massive Sycamore. We had to prune 5 of these and all of them are about 100+ feet tall. Major energy conservation.
> 
> Tree Pro Wraptor - YouTube
> 
> Anthony


 
Somewhere a D.O.T flagger is grieving the loss of his hard hat. After watching that vid a few things came to mind, you spent 10 bucks on a hard hat and 2,500 on a ascender wtf, thats 55' at best and last of all are you guys really using the wraptor on these short climbs. With the time spent switching systems lowering the device and huffin 2 stroke, seems like a waste to me. I get it on long asents, but so far the only good use for these things is going up a redwood.


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## deevo (Oct 19, 2011)

mr. holden wood said:


> Somewhere a D.O.T flagger is grieving the loss of his hard hat. After watching that vid a few things came to mind, you spent 10 bucks on a hard hat and 2,500 on a ascender wtf, thats 55' at best and last of all are you guys really using the wraptor on these short climbs. With the time spent switching systems lowering the device and huffin 2 stroke, seems like a waste to me. I get it on long asents, but so far the only good use for these things is going up a redwood.


 
Yep I can agree with that. I have been using a pantin the last 2 years and can go up tall white pines and poplars around here all day long,and still have lots of energy, if you cannot do that then your out of shape. They have there place for sure, but not justifiable for me to buy one, especially at that price.


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## treemandan (Oct 19, 2011)

NYSawBoss said:


> I know there were some critics to the introduction of the Wraptor into an arborists arsenal of tools. However, watch this video and see how it can vastly increase production. 85' Vertical ascent into a massive Sycamore. We had to prune 5 of these and all of them are about 100+ feet tall. Major energy conservation.
> 
> Tree Pro Wraptor - YouTube
> 
> Anthony


 
yeah you forgot about all the critics there are about spikin live trees... jess so happens I'm one of them kind O critic, Bozo.
And a sycamore to boot? yeah well double Bozo you are Bozo. I'd call ya that whenever so you know, ####,somebody should. Jeez, looks like yer going fer triple Bozo cause ya got the bucket right there. 
Somewhere a DOT flagger IS looking for his hardhat, he really is.


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## Reg (Oct 20, 2011)

NYSawBoss said:


> I know there were some critics to the introduction of the Wraptor into an arborists arsenal of tools. However, watch this video and see how it can vastly increase production. 85' Vertical ascent into a massive Sycamore. We had to prune 5 of these and all of them are about 100+ feet tall. Major energy conservation.
> 
> Tree Pro Wraptor - YouTube
> 
> Anthony



Anthony, maybe thats just the worst camera angle ever....because it apeared on the video you ascended about 50ft at the very most. 

I think the wraptor is absolutely great....although personally wouldn't want to become too reliant on it. I can however think of many an occasion in the past where it would have been a real morale booster....but nothing more recently. Good luck with that.


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## imagineero (Oct 20, 2011)

I'd love to have a wraptor....

and a GRCS, bigger chipper, bigger truck, more climbing ropes, some new saws, bigger stump grinder, one of those fancy chain sharpening machines, a full time technician to look after my gear and do my servicing, a higher income, longer holidays, shorter days and 3 wishes to come true each day.

Back in reality world though, each piece of gear has to earn its money many times over to be worth buying. There's only so much cash to spend on gear, and lots of that stuff is just icing on the cake. 

Shaun


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## NYSawBoss (Oct 20, 2011)

We are not hacks by any means. A large part of that tree was being pruned out. The spikes only penetrated the lead that was being removed. The beauty of the wraptor. Don't judge before getting all of the facts my friends.


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## TimberMcPherson (Oct 20, 2011)

Thanks for the vid.

Seriously, that hat stinks. Those kind of lids I gave away to the local kindergarten 10 years ago, i wouldnt even let my groundies use them.


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## NYSawBoss (Oct 20, 2011)

In regards to the bucket being on site: 

Fully extended from its place in the driveway it wasn't able to get to the limbs in the sycamore that was closest to it. Were we able to use the bucket for them, of course that would have been preferred. You guys are so easy to spark up. That's what I love about this site. Everybody individually is Gods gift to tree care.


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## imagineero (Oct 20, 2011)

You know, 
I would have taken a look but "this video has been removed by the user".

I'm sure you are 100% professional and did a really first rate job though.

Shaun


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 20, 2011)

Why hate when you can build a better one in a couple of days with a few hundred dollars?


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 20, 2011)

Del_Corbin said:


> How about some photos?


 
They are indeed top secret, I'm going to sell my glorified weed whipper for $3500! :msp_thumbup:

Who is John Galt?


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## imagineero (Oct 21, 2011)

A couple of times I've wondered how I'd go about making one. I don't think I'd be interested in doing a petrol motor version of it. Maybe a battery powered one though? I've got a 36V dewalt cordless drill, I guess you could knock up a simple aluminum frame with a bit of gearing and maybe a self tailing winch drum. A shunt or microcender above that gets pushed up the rope as your backup. I just dont know how much you'd have to gear it down for the drill to have enough guts to turn it all, might end up so slow it isnt worthwhile. Also, how many ascents you'd get in a day.

Just another project to add to the long list..... 

Shaun


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## treevet (Oct 21, 2011)

imagineero said:


> A couple of times I've wondered how I'd go about making one. I don't think I'd be interested in doing a petrol motor version of it. Maybe a battery powered one though? I've got a 36V dewalt cordless drill, I guess you could knock up a simple aluminum frame with a bit of gearing and maybe a self tailing winch drum. A shunt or microcender above that gets pushed up the rope as your backup. I just dont know how much you'd have to gear it down for the drill to have enough guts to turn it all, might end up so slow it isnt worthwhile. Also, how many ascents you'd get in a day.
> 
> Just another project to add to the long list.....
> 
> Shaun


 
How bout just buying one instead of re inventing the wheel (wraptor)?:monkey:


I paid for mine with one day's work. If you don't buy one and say you don't need one (who needs a bucket or crane or chainsaw for that matter)....you either not a high enough level arb to make that much or a Scrooge level tightwad. opcorn:


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## treemandan (Oct 21, 2011)

NYSawBoss said:


> We are not hacks by any means. A large part of that tree was being pruned out. The spikes only penetrated the lead that was being removed. The beauty of the wraptor. Don't judge before getting all of the facts my friends.


 
its lookin pretty grim fella.


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## treemandan (Oct 21, 2011)

It just surprises the #### outta me how many guys out there still going to spike a live tree.

You have the guys jess to dumb to know better. You have the guys that are jess to dumb to try another way. You have the guys that jess don't give a ####. 

Its not only about the spiking. No, you put a mentality like that is room with me and we are jess not going to get along.Why? Because I gave up trying to.


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## flushcut (Oct 21, 2011)

The video is gone now I can't ##### and moan about the guys skull bucket.


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## Kottonwood (Oct 21, 2011)

I really don't get it. I could have been up there just as quick with a pantin and single hand ascender with plenty of energy to burn. Not to mention I could just clip the hand ascender to my saddle when I am done instead of trying to lower that 3000 dollar POS. I guess it's hard to wear a pantin with spikes on though..... luckily I don't trim with spikes.

I did a creek willow clearance project that we had to srt up multple 70ft plus trees with no bottom limbs. We ended up just setting a friction saver at the top and a block at the bottom of the tree then pulling climbers up with the winch.... could have just as easily done it with some strong groundies. You can put that wraptor in the garage with AA's steiner in my opinion.

Yeah... I see why you pulled that vid of your awesome 85 ft ascent.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 21, 2011)

LOL
opcorn:


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## ropensaddle (Oct 21, 2011)

mr. holden wood said:


> Somewhere a D.O.T flagger is grieving the loss of his hard hat. After watching that vid a few things came to mind, you spent 10 bucks on a hard hat and 2,500 on a ascender wtf, thats 55' at best and last of all are you guys really using the wraptor on these short climbs. With the time spent switching systems lowering the device and huffin 2 stroke, seems like a waste to me. I get it on long asents, but so far the only good use for these things is going up a redwood.


 
Just keep telling yourself that young grasshopper and the usefulness of this fine tool will appear into your knoggin Btw most of our trees require 90 foot tip not 55 my bucket 55 many times wont reach first limb lol. Personally I don't care if anyone thinks thinks they are useless while I'm doing twice their production and going home rested


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## ropensaddle (Oct 21, 2011)

Del_Corbin said:


> Got any after pics?
> 
> If you took out the whole smaller leader it sounds quite excessive.


 
Lol I recommend complete removal damn toxic trees imo. Had a lady want one trimmed so I trimmed it she told me she had to go to the doctor and her allergy's were acting up. I said yeah well mine too because of this tree


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## treevet (Oct 21, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> I really don't get it. I could have been up there just as quick with a pantin and single hand ascender with plenty of energy to burn. .



horseschit. 

let's see a vid of you on a 70 ft foot lock and close up of your face at the end.

Man this place is gettin infested with bullschitters.


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## treemandan (Oct 21, 2011)

And I was first surprised some time ago, it seems everytime i run into a guy stompin through a trim job it refreshes the surprise.


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## Kottonwood (Oct 21, 2011)

treevet said:


> horseschit.
> 
> let's see a vid of you on a 70 ft foot lock and close up of your face at the end.
> 
> Man this place is gettin infested with bullschitters.


 
alright..... guess I gotta make a footlock video now. Maybe I'll go climb the tallest tree in CO again.... a whopping 105 ft. 

I am not saying the wraptor isn't easier, just saying it ain't faster and it ain't worth what they ask for it. A wraptor is worth 500 bucks max. Hell they should just make an attachment for the kombi system, now there's an idea. Yeah... and I am all about getting pulled up a tree at the end of the day if it is possible.


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## treemandan (Oct 21, 2011)

And I hate the Wraptor too! I HATE it! 


Its a little much for around here i think but to hate it? Dam, when i was a kid skateboarding was illegal, pants fit and you had to climb yer own trees if you wanted up em.


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 21, 2011)

Me and my bud rode the Wraptor on 3 large Red Oak deadwood/trims today. It is an awesome tool. If you are into pruning large vertical trees, it's a no brainer. You can make a bunch of your cuts on the way up too.


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## treevet (Oct 21, 2011)

Yeah nails, very seldom I don't make cuts on the way up. 

Couple of days ago had a 60' partially uprooted ash bent over a house and deck like a fishing pole. Shot a beanie up in it and when I pulled on it real hard it damn near touched the roof.

Stem was near 40 degree lean. Had 6 severe, and I counted em, bends, and was maybe 10 inch dia most of the way up. Took the short cut and went straight to the top all time trying to think "I am light....I am light" lol. Woulda been an adventure climbing that one all the way up. Couldn't of got a 200' stick crane to it.

Here's a little trick I been using lately (off topic but it's near the wraptor that day). Just a firewood carrier made of thin canvas you can stick in your pocket. In it is short climb line line, long climb line, 150' lower line, saddle, handsaw, gecko's, cube and throw line. Works super for carrying gear. Cost, prob bout 15 bucks.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 22, 2011)

treevet said:


> How bout just buying one instead of re inventing the wheel (wraptor)?:monkey:
> 
> 
> I paid for mine with one day's work. If you don't buy one and say you don't need one (who needs a bucket or crane or chainsaw for that matter)....you either not a high enough level arb to make that much or a Scrooge level tightwad. opcorn:


 
I think I'm a combo, perhaps a low level arb, with a twist of high level scrooge tightwad.  

I get your point, part of me says, "just get one." If nothing else, get by till I can retrofit a stihl powerhead, or engineer my own chassis that will welcome one.

But I can't get past the wally world choice for a power unit. Tecumseh...really? $2500 for something with a tecumseh? What will you do when it quits? What kind of warranty do you have? The website gives me little to no real info. ( btw..I think _tecumseh_ is native american for "Bah humbug". :jester

Maybe I'm wrong, that's very possible, but I doubt they became better motors since they went out of business. Maybe though, but I can't seem to bring myself to do it when that money can go to some other things more credible and reliable for now.

I'm not trying to give anyone buyer's remorse, I know alot of you guys are running them with success so far, I'm honestly glad for that, it's the only thing that has me tempted. However, there is plenty of room for improvement, and it won't be too long before someone, like stihl I hope, comes along with something that might actually be worth the money, substance wise, especially down the line.

I'm glad you mentioned the reinventing the wheel though, because it gives us a perfect example of a concept that has enjoyed much innovation through the years.

The wraptor only belongs to the concept of motorized rope ascension, not the other way around.

If Paul can do it, what's stopping anyone else from making the wraptor the model A Ford of motorized rope ascension? Or perhaps even the edsel? Not to dissolve giving credit where credit is due, but to suggest that it's the end all be all is simply a short cut to thinking.

Great concept, handy tool, but overall low quality, mostly due to the motor, at a high price. If all goes well in the next couple of weeks, I may just order one, but if winter sets in hard like they are saying before I do, there will be some long days and nights at the 80k sq ft fab shop I'm looking to help part time this winter. Don't be surprised if I'm buzzing up a rope on a stihl FS 90 conversion come spring. But I've got other projects in mind as well, like a grapple bucket for a friend's massey that I want to give him, so who really knows if I ever get around to it, but somebody will, especially if the market will bear a $2500 tecumseh powered unit.

"Time is money" works both ways.

BTW...I don't hate the wraptor, I'm just looking beyond it. I see a little bigger, a little faster, a lot better.


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## treevet (Oct 22, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> I think I'm a combo, perhaps a low level arb, with a twist of high level scrooge tightwad.
> 
> I get your point, part of me says, "just get one." If nothing else, get by till I can retrofit a stihl powerhead, or engineer my own chassis that will welcome one.
> 
> ...



Believe my engine is a Tanaka....not a Tecumseh Ryan. 

Had the first edition of anyone of gas powered reversable Tonaka drill for 25 years and the little engine has drilled a meelion vert. mulch holes in hard pan and drilled another meelion holes for cabling and rodding and various other tasks and still kickin as s. Amazing unit like this Mercedes of ascension.

Jealousy brings out some unusual emotions. I remember just couple of years ago all the same rhetoric involving the purchase of bucket trucks and maybe just last week involving cranes. That is the soap opera that is arboristsite.

Think end to end warr. is a year but not sure. He offered to completely send me another new machine when I had an issue with my shut off switch but I had my mechanic fix it easily as it was a painted ground wire contact he just ground off paint.

Maybe like the Patriot dude, you can get a Chevy connected to a line to a pully or a donkey or something to pull you up while you invent your own model? Good luck finding the time if you are like me buddy.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 22, 2011)

treevet said:


> Believe my engine is a Tanaka....not a Tecumseh Ryan.
> 
> Had the first edition of anyone of gas powered reversable Tonaka drill for 25 years and the little engine has drilled a meelion vert. mulch holes in hard pan and drilled another meelion holes for cabling and rodding and various other tasks and still kickin as s. Amazing unit like this Mercedes of ascension.
> 
> ...


 
My bad, my bad, lol...I thought I saw tecumseh somewhere. Tanaka? Never heard of them. Hopefully, there's a difference there. What's the motor worth if you have to replace that? Must be expensive to justify a $2500 price tag. Where are they made? What are the internal materials? A one year warranty beats 90 days I guess. Excellent that he was so helpful...that's encouraging.

Can't say I'm jealous though, just thinking innovation here. Might be jealous of your crane though.  I'm patient, we'll get there. 

I won't bother rigging any lessor contraptions, lol, just simple innovations coupled to reliable and available powerheads. No tonaka dealers around here that I know of, but I'll ask around.

If we get alot of snow, I'll have time likely, if not I'll take your word on the tanaka and hope for the best.


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## treevet (Oct 22, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> My bad, my bad, lol...I thought I saw tecumseh somewhere. Tanaka? Never heard of them. Hopefully, there's a difference there. What's the motor worth if you have to replace that? Must be expensive to justify a $2500 price tag. Where are they made? What are the internal materials? A one year warranty beats 90 days I guess. Excellent that he was so helpful...that's encouraging.
> 
> Can't say I'm jealous though, just thinking innovation here. Might be jealous of your crane though.  I'm patient, we'll get there.
> 
> ...



never had a repair on my Tanaka drill in 25 years except leaky gas cap which we just put a cutting of a plastic bag over the gas fill hole and put a hole in it and screwed the cap over it and afro'ed as good as new.:msp_thumbsup:


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 22, 2011)

I found them, not much support in my area. Just from the little research I've done here I'll bet your drill was made in japan. Which is good...I have lots of faith in that county's commitment to quality. But it seems that now, some stuff, like some of their chainsaws, is made in china....I have little faith in the chinese. Some stuff ok, lots of stuff not so good. This tanaka now seems to be owned by hitachi I think.

So I'm curious where that wraptor powerhead is made. Is there a plate that tells you somewhere on there?


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## treevet (Oct 22, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> I found them, not much support in my area. Just from the little research I've done here I'll bet your drill was made in japan. Which is good...I have lots of faith in that county's commitment to quality. But it seems that now, some stuff, like some of their chainsaws, is made in china....I have little faith in the chinese. Some stuff ok, lots of stuff not so good. This tanaka now seems to be owned by hitachi I think.
> 
> So I'm curious where that wraptor powerhead is made. Is there a plate that tells you somewhere on there?


 
Powerhead ....Nikko Tanaka Engineering Company, Ltd., Chiba, Japan


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## tree MDS (Oct 22, 2011)

Maybe if the thing didn't sound so gay. Just listening to it reminds me of cabling. Too bad they don't make one with a 200T powerhead.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 22, 2011)

treevet said:


> Powerhead ....Nikko Tanaka Engineering Company, Ltd., Chiba, Japan


 
It says MADE IN JAPAN?

If so, that's very encouraging. So if Paul sends me one made in china by mistake, he won't mind taking it back and getting me one made in JAPAN I hope. I just might have to consider getting one now.

Thanks man. :msp_thumbup:


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 22, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Maybe if the thing didn't sound so gay. Just listening to it reminds me of cabling. Too bad they don't make one with a 200T powerhead.


 
Yeah, but then you'd be up in that hundred footer in 30 seconds instead of 60. Honestly, my faith is somewhat restored, but eventually improvements are bound to happen, whether wraptor makes them or leaves it to someone else.

I can see husky and stihl getting into this race in the future.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 22, 2011)

treevet said:


> horseschit.
> 
> let's see a vid of you on a 70 ft foot lock and close up of your face at the end.
> 
> Man this place is gettin infested with bullschitters.


 
My wraptor is a bulline and a pully shot high in the tree than I run a climbing line through and pull the climber up with the mini , its fast and safe , than when were done we just untie the bulline and lower the pulley back to earth I have sent climbers 100 ft in less than a minute . that wraptor sounds like it is struggling in that video


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## rbtree (Oct 22, 2011)

You'll get no negative review from me! The Wraptor rules!


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## rbtree (Oct 22, 2011)

> Must be expensive to justify a $2500 price tag.



Not really. R&D was quite the task for Paul....and, as of a while ago, he'd only sold 124 units. The $2500 price tag, which includes a 150 foot line and rope bag, is well justified.

In fact, the Wraptor is in many ways better than the Swedish Act-Safe unit, which costs about $5500....and isn't available stateside.


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## treemandan (Oct 22, 2011)

Another thing to have to get you up there fast is having an old cankersore tree man as a boss standing under ya ready to jab ya in the pucker with a pole saw. They haven't made nothing to compete with that yet.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 22, 2011)

treemandan said:


> Another thing to have to get you up there fast is having an old cankersore tree man as a boss standing under ya ready to jab ya in the pucker with a pole saw. They haven't made nothing to compete with that yet.


 
Wow thats funny I would think that thought of someone poking you in the pucker would get you down outta the tree real fast , wow was I wrong


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## Kottonwood (Oct 22, 2011)

Here is an ascent with mini. Normally we would put a block in the bottom of the tree as well...... and I don't know why the hell he is going up without his chainsaw..... sometimes I wonder what the hell else goes on when I am not on the jobsite

Keep in mind that very skid or something similar can easily be purchased for only twice the price of your wraptor.

Ascent with skid - YouTube


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 22, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> I think I'm a combo, perhaps a low level arb, with a twist of high level scrooge tightwad.
> 
> I get your point, part of me says, "just get one." If nothing else, get by till I can retrofit a stihl powerhead, or engineer my own chassis that will welcome one.
> 
> ...




This says it all, a guy dissing the Wraptors viability and he doesn't even have his facts remotely straight, it is a Tanaka. And they are the best gas drill money can buy, proven just as Treevet has mentioned. 

Show me one person that has bought a Wraptor that has buyer's remorse, ain't gonna happen.

All of you that don't have a Wraptor can speculate all day long and your long winded speeches still won't add up to a pinch of #### in a hail storm.


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 22, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> Here is an ascent with mini. Normally we would put a block in the bottom of the tree as well...... and I don't know why the hell he is going up without his chainsaw..... sometimes I wonder what the hell else goes on when I am not on the jobsite
> 
> Keep in mind that very skid or something similar can easily be purchased for only twice the price of your wraptor.
> 
> Ascent with skid - YouTube


 

Wraptor is far superior and safer. The climber is in control of his ascent and you don't have to cover 50-100 feet of ground to pull a guy up. It's a 1 man operation, the mini skid is a two man job. Wraptor wins again, no contest really.


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## Kottonwood (Oct 22, 2011)

Del_Corbin said:


> Lots of time I don't have my mini on the job site. Other times I do trims alone.
> 
> I've never liked putting my life in the hands of someone else like that fellow is doing in the video. Have you ever seen what can happen if the climbers lanyard catch on a stub on the way up? I have. Reverse bungee, yee ha!(that is if the climber doesn't get pull in half, first.)
> 
> As for your climber not taking the saw with him on the way up......he's probably got as good or better of a reason than you've presented for not liking the Wraptor.


 
My main beef with the wraptor is the price tag. If he would lower the price to 500 or 750 every tree guy would have one in his tool bag.

Doing trims alone....... sounds safe


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 22, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> My main beef with the wraptor is the price tag. If he would lower the price to 500 or 750 every tree guy would have one in his tool bag.
> 
> Doing trims alone....... sounds safe


 
Go and price the Tanaka powerhead as a drill, the 500-750 with a rope and a bag is not even remotely possible. The drill alone goes for around $600. $1500 maybe for a life supporting piece of equipment in it's current configuration with a rope/bag/safety strap with biner/rope cam.


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## Kottonwood (Oct 22, 2011)

Personally that would be the price point where I would buy it. Though, I don't have a ton of use for it. If you use it every day then I suppose you can justify it. I still don't see 2500 being a fair price for what it is.

Edit: .... and I don't need the rope and what not.... I have plenty of that and I am picky about my ropes.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 22, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> Wraptor is far superior and safer. The climber is in control of his ascent and you don't have to cover 50-100 feet of ground to pull a guy up. It's a 1 man operation, the mini skid is a two man job. Wraptor wins again, no contest really.


 
They can save a lot of space by putting a pulley on the base of the stalk , and its not a 100ft space needed it the height of the pull that is all and the climber can stop the machine sit for a minute and let the machine take a new byte on the line , I have done this 1000xs with little or no effort on the climber I do run a heavier line though for the climber I wouldn't trust breaking a climbing line over the crotch and putting that kinda heat on it for one pulling the climber up and the machine pulling the other end thats why I use a seperate bulline like a the SRT setup than I can just lower that outta the way when he's there .....


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 22, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> This says it all, a guy dissing the Wraptors viability and he doesn't even have his facts remotely straight, it is a Tanaka. And they are the best gas drill money can buy, proven just as Treevet has mentioned.
> 
> Show me one person that has bought a Wraptor that has buyer's remorse, ain't gonna happen.
> 
> All of you that don't have a Wraptor can speculate all day long and your long winded speeches still won't add up to a pinch of #### in a hail storm.


 
Wasn't looking for buyer's remorse, I made that clear. If you bothered to read the rest of the thread before going on your rant you'd see we worked the confusion out already. My bad, I'll own that, and thank god it's not a tecumseh, I just got some bad angles on the website pics. It's not like they bragged on a tanaka, very little info. And I wasn't "dissing" on the wraptor so much, yo, as just weighing out the future of motorized rope ascension and the possibilities of something not made by hitachi. Sorry bout that. 
Either way, tanaka or not, the post stands tall enough on its own merit, in principle. There will be improvements, and competition, get used to that. And don't be surprised if future wraptor models don't have a chinese engine. They don't mind doing it to their chainsaws, what makes the wraptor immune? Nothing.

I'll likely grap a wraptor now...while the japanese engines are still around, but when those run out, I hope someone has come along to fill the gap and give the chicoms a run for...our money.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 22, 2011)

I'ved used pulleys but in no way did they compare to my wraptor I took down two dead oaks today 2 hours then back on deer stand and was not even sweaty. The price bit me but really its very inexpensive in the long run. It will save me tons of fuel money and this is something you young bucks will learn, this chit gets harder as you age. I 'm not saying I can't climb using the other techniques but am saying my longevity was greatly increased and production as well using the device. Oh and the cool factor sells too baby It also may save your life in the event you become injured it will make it easier to get you down :monkey: The price was in the patent process and perfecting safety and as a semi daily user it's safe as any thing tree related can be. It's even safer than my bucket which is why you hear me wraptoring more lately I will save the bucket for the 110 degree days.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 23, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> I'ved used pulleys but in no way did they compare to my wraptor I took down two dead oaks today 2 hours then back on deer stand and was not even sweaty. The price bit me but really its very inexpensive in the long run. It will save me tons of fuel money and this is something you young bucks will learn, this chit gets harder as you age. I 'm not saying I can't climb using the other techniques but am saying my longevity was greatly increased and production as well using the device. Oh and the cool factor sells too baby It also may save your life in the event you become injured it will make it easier to get you down :monkey: The price was in the patent process and perfecting safety and as a semi daily user it's safe as any thing tree related can be. It's even safer than my bucket which is why you hear me wraptoring more lately I will save the bucket for the 110 degree days.


 
Was wondering when you'd weigh in....your motor made in JAPAN too? Just wondering if they all are so far. I'm thinking about calling Paul in the morning to see if I can be assured to get a japanese motor on mine.

I like the concept, but I'll wager before too long that someone comes along with something better, for less, or at least makes it worth what the market will bear. Can't believe so many are so touchy about that. Must own stock in hitachi, wraptor, or both.

Can't help but wonder if knowing what guys will pay for a grcs has influenced the same exact price.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 23, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Was wondering when you'd weigh in....your motor made in JAPAN too? Just wondering if they all are so far. I'm thinking about calling Paul in the morning to see if I can be assured to get a japanese motor on mine.
> 
> I like the concept, but I'll wager before too long that someone comes along with something better, for less, or at least makes it worth what the market will bear. Can't believe so many are so touchy about that. Must own stock in hitachi, wraptor, or both.
> 
> Can't help but wonder if knowing what guys will pay for a grcs has influenced the same exact price.


 
Now see I can't see spending all that on a gcrs as my porty big does an ok job for catching loads. I would buy one if I did not already have a twenty ton winch with bollard. I would prolly buy one if I had extra funds but I am honestly glad I bought my wraptor as its a labor saver.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 23, 2011)

They won't get any cheaper until sales drop, and I doubt they've stopped climbing. When the sales drop, then it's time to go after the rest of the world that was waiting for the price to drop. Prices won't drop until then. Think about how expensive computers and CD players were at first automobiles too.

If I were a guy like ropensaddle, I'd clip a radio to a worker, and clip the worker to the Wriptor, "n away ya go." He won't even ask for much money because he get's to ride up a tree on the thing. Go further and clip two or three workers on wraptors, and direct operations. 

"And man they're fast!"

:yoyo::yoyo::yoyo:opcorn:


Maybe I'm just dreaming.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 23, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Now see I can't see spending all that on a gcrs as my porty big does an ok job for catching loads. I would buy one if I did not already have a twenty ton winch with bollard. I would prolly buy one if I had extra funds but I am honestly glad I bought my wraptor as its a labor saver.


 
Right, I don't see $2495(WesSpur) in a grcs either, I can't remember who it was that built one from scratch to have a second unit, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't all that hard and they were glad they did. Not all arborists are that handy, or like vet, have the time. To them I suppose it is worth it, and rightly so, but I don't think that means we all have to just get happy, fall in, and buy one if we can build our own or find other options. Nor do I think there is anything wrong with being critical about the pricing when you know there isn't nearly that in time, materials, profit margin, and what not. On the other hand, often it's not a matter of just being cheap, but rather enjoying the satisfaction of crafting something together with your own tools and knowledge and seeing it work for you.

I'm catching nice enough wood with my 3/4 in bull, a shop made large porty, and a fiddle block. I'll progress and get a better system one way or another, but for now it does the trick. I can easily go grab a porty, but it was a fun rainy day project with a mentor and it's proven as good as any.

I guess my position in any case is that of encouraging innovations and healthy competition. That's what made this country strong once, but maybe it's just a sign of the times that one should get any guff for invoking such talk. To suggest that something can be improved upon, made stronger, faster, and better, and heaven forbid in my own shop for substantially less, or be critical of the current offering in any way and invite such gnashing of teeth is troublesome to say the least. It's no big deal to me, whatever soothes such trying times. Perhaps it's mostly simple projectionism, but I digress.

I'm not threatened by being wrong where I'm wrong, I'm fairly thick skinned and don't mind learning, I would though that others not be so threatened wherein I might be right....at least in principle and/or in spirit.

I don't think the wraptor is a POS, but I don't think it's a $2500 apex product either. I guess when you are the only one on the hill, you can claim king for the time being. It's the beginning, and not a bad one at that, but nevertheless, just the beginning IMHO.



> They won't get any cheaper until sales drop, and I doubt they've stopped climbing. When the sales drop, then it's time to go after the rest of the world that was waiting for the price to drop. Prices won't drop until then. Think about how expensive computers and CD players were at first automobiles too.



Good point, but competition from various manufacturers also plays an important role. It tends to trim the fat, and give options, some good, some bad. Everything from knock off Chinese junk, to American made quality, to German engineered refinement, just to name a few.

The first gen wraptor has a Japanese made engine as I’m told, so that’s good. Looking at the tanaka offerings, I wonder why not take advantage of their 40cc powerhead. Maybe Paul will, I’ve got to believe that a man capable of such a device has plans for a wraptor 2, or various models. I just hope that in the meantime, tanaka doesn't shift the rest of their motor manufacturing to china as they have some already. That would be a discouraging turn of events I should think.


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## tree MDS (Oct 23, 2011)

Vet is right about those tanaka drill motors BT, from everything I've ever seen or heard they last forever. I bought the stihl gas drill myself, but that was just because I was being cheap (also because I'm not a big fan of cabling).


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## treevet (Oct 23, 2011)

I see "ropetek" on this thread. Is that you Paul? How's things goin?


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 23, 2011)

We all know a Wraptor and GRCS cost the same, but if you are in a position to buy one now, get the Wraptor first. Having plenty of experience with both, many devices will bring a tree down with about the same efficiency, but the Wraptor stands alone as an energy free ascent experience. This equals more trees worked in a day and more profit, where the GRCS does not necessarily.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 23, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Vet is right about those tanaka drill motors BT, from everything I've ever seen or heard they last forever. I bought the stihl gas drill myself, but that was just because I was being cheap (also because I'm not a big fan of cabling).


 
Right, I did some homework and those drills are number 1, period. As long as the motor on those wraptors are made in Japan, I'm interested, but I have little faith in Hitachi to keep it that way. Maybe they will, but I struggle with the idea of getting used to depending on anything if it's made in china. Around here tanaka is not well supported, so I am leary of that, but vet tells me Paul is very helpful, so that encourages me. I'm on the fence, so to speak. If my cemetery contract comes through after the board meeting this month, I'll likely get one and just enjoy the ride. Till then I'm busy keeping up with the work load I have and the costs of moving into a place that's requiring a ton of time, money, and energy...it should prove to be worth it in the long run.


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## treevet (Oct 23, 2011)

WTF's a Wraptor thread without..............

The Wraptor gals. (must be lunchtime ...I smells fish samiches a cookin lol)[video=youtube_share;_k1lAf_V5Uk]http://youtu.be/_k1lAf_V5Uk[/video]


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 23, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> We all know a Wraptor and GRCS cost the same, but if you are in a position to buy one now, get the Wraptor first. Having plenty of experience with both, many devices will bring a tree down with about the same efficiency, but the Wraptor stands alone as an energy free ascent experience. This equals more trees worked in a day and more profit, where the GRCS does not necessarily.


 
I can definitely agree with that, clearly it's the better money spend for the return. I just think it's more than a coincidence, but I'm probably wrong. If it were me though, and I was looking to price a device like the wraptor, I can see myself saying, "heck, if the Mr. Good can get 2495 for that thing, I should have no troubles getting at least that much for my contraption." And I'd be right. I'm sure there were plenty of other factors though.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 23, 2011)

treevet said:


> WTF's a Wraptor thread without..............
> 
> The Wraptor gals. (must be lunchtime ...I smells fish samiches a cookin lol)[video=youtube_share;_k1lAf_V5Uk]http://youtu.be/_k1lAf_V5Uk[/video]


 
You ain't right...lol.:msp_rolleyes:


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## ropetek (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah, its me, I tend to follow threads about the Wraptor, imagine that. I do tend to try not to comment as I feel I tend to end up looking like an ass. That being said I will point out a couple of things. Firstly Tanaka wasnt my ideal choice for a power-head, I searched for a US co. that we could use as I wanted to keep this an all US made product. Couldnt find anything reliable. Tanaka has a bullet proof rep. but is as mentioned expensive. We sold our first unit 3 years ago and we have to date had 2 kill switches malfunction and 3 gas tanks start to seep, no other issues whatsoever. The rest of the device is made in the US which I can assure you is no small feat, daily more and more machine shops go out of business which really makes me worry for our countries future. If we cannt make anything anymore how can we survive??? I consistantly hear that the Wraptor is too expensive, it is a lot of money for what it is and Im sure as many people have pointed out I could halve the cost if I had them made in China. I refuse to do that for many reasons but mostly safety, all it takes is for one unit to fail and Ropetek will be out of business, simple as that. Even though people think I am making a fortune, believe it or not we almost lost our house last year, a microburst in Charlottesville got us out of the hole, not Wraptor sales. I still do tree work every day, now finally I have recouped my investment and it is a nice second income, however this is after 3+ years of working 7 days a week all hours of the day it has been hard earned and never a given.

No we will not be making a faster more powerful unit. The Wraptor is just the right speed for ascending a tree IMO, the faster it is the more accidents there will be. Most people miss the point of the unit, its not about saving time its about increasing safety. The climber is tied in the entire time and is in control of his ascent. Another large factor in improving safety that is underated IMO is the reduced fatigue especially on hot days. 

A quick shout out to those dudes out there that are going to make there own units, good for you, thats what I did 4 years ago and that was my only intent, to make 1 unit however all my friends wanted 1 too so I decided it may be my retirement plan. Bottom line put a cammed ascender above your unit as a back up and who cares if yours fails you will still be safe. You will learn a lot doing it and gain satisfaction. FWIW I sand casted the first 20 or so prototypes hubs and they worked. Unfortunately you will find it is hard to make stuff in low volumes which is why Wraptors cost so much, we make them 10 at a time, maybe if I was Donald Trump I could make 10000 and cut cost in half and sell the for $1500 however certain costs cannt be reduced such as INSURANCE.

Wraptors have a rated breaking strength of 8000lbs which is irrelevant IMO because if the climber exerts that force on the unit his spine will be snapped long before however check out the cammed ascenders lots of you guys are using which will cut the rope at about 700lbs which equates to a 200lbs climber dropping 6 feet I believe, pretty scary when you think that we set lines from the ground so can easily be over suckers etc. The rope we provide has a 7% stretch at 10% of mbs so is VERY stretchy simply to absorb shock loading WHEN suckers let go.

For me the most gratifying thing about these threads is that EVERY Wraptor owner loves them. Bottom line is yes they cost a lot (nowhere near what they should cost if you go by industry standards of how much they should cost compared to how much the cost to make) but to date I have never had a disappointed user. All you guys be safe out there because the first one that gets hurt will be the end of Ropetek.........


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## treevet (Oct 23, 2011)

Have you had any consideration about the vulnerability of the spark plug, wire and boot sticking up? Maybe after mine was made? I think I am going to have something fabbed over mine to protect from twigs. 

I was one of the two that had the stop switch issue I guess?

I am glad you had a stretchy rope incorporated into the package. I have snapped suckers a few times and you get a little jolt with shock load. Enough to be a little more careful sighting what is holding you next time;. Also enough not to bypass the ascender protection aspect which one might think saves a few minutes of hook up and unhooking.


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## treemandan (Oct 23, 2011)

ropetek said:


> Yeah, its me, I tend to follow threads about the Wraptor, imagine that. I do tend to try not to comment as I feel I tend to end up looking like an ass. That being said I will point out a couple of things. Firstly Tanaka wasnt my ideal choice for a power-head, I searched for a US co. that we could use as I wanted to keep this an all US made product. Couldnt find anything reliable. Tanaka has a bullet proof rep. but is as mentioned expensive. We sold our first unit 3 years ago and we have to date had 2 kill switches malfunction and 3 gas tanks start to seep, no other issues whatsoever. The rest of the device is made in the US which I can assure you is no small feat, daily more and more machine shops go out of business which really makes me worry for our countries future. If we cannt make anything anymore how can we survive??? I consistantly hear that the Wraptor is too expensive, it is a lot of money for what it is and Im sure as many people have pointed out I could halve the cost if I had them made in China. I refuse to do that for many reasons but mostly safety, all it takes is for one unit to fail and Ropetek will be out of business, simple as that. Even though people think I am making a fortune, believe it or not we almost lost our house last year, a microburst in Charlottesville got us out of the hole, not Wraptor sales. I still do tree work every day, now finally I have recouped my investment and it is a nice second income, however this is after 3+ years of working 7 days a week all hours of the day it has been hard earned and never a given.
> 
> No we will not be making a faster more powerful unit. The Wraptor is just the right speed for ascending a tree IMO, the faster it is the more accidents there will be. Most people miss the point of the unit, its not about saving time its about increasing safety. The climber is tied in the entire time and is in control of his ascent. Another large factor in improving safety that is underated IMO is the reduced fatigue especially on hot days.
> 
> ...


 


Nice work, good story. I was thinking you made the Wraptor so these dunderheads wouldn't have to use their spikes trimming trees anymore.


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## ropetek (Oct 23, 2011)

Treevet, funny you ask that. The guy who bought the first ever Wraptor called me the other day and asked what type of plug they took as he had just broke his, all be it after 3 years. So yours is the second recorded incident. Ill start to think about it, let you know what I come up with. Man I dont baby mine and have never had a problem, yoos guys must be rough......

Oh yeah yours was 1 of the 2 kill switches, design was change after you reported the issue.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 23, 2011)

ropetek said:


> Treevet, funny you ask that. The guy who bought the first ever Wraptor called me the other day and asked what type of plug they took as he had just broke his, all be it after 3 years. So yours is the second recorded incident. Ill start to think about it, let you know what I come up with. Man I dont baby mine and have never had a problem, yoos guys must be rough......
> 
> Oh yeah yours was 1 of the 2 kill switches, design was change after you reported the issue.


 
I'm not sure if mine was new style but I have not had a single issue with mine. I treat her with kit gloves and tuck her in tight at night  Paul why would an injury end ropetec? I think unless it was faulty or defective it would be operator error. Anyway I always use the safety features and I for one can't see how other than not pretesting tip a fail could get ugly. I hope you eventually make a profit for your hours put into this fine tool.


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## ropetek (Oct 24, 2011)

Last year some jackass decided to pull a tree over with his GRCS. Set the unit on a tree and pulled at 90 to the intended direction. The 1/2 round bar fairlead snapped off and hit the guy in the lip and he lost some teeth. The Dude sued and in court admitted he knew he should have been using a redirect but was still awarded $250,000. Gregg Goods insurance has gone through the roof. 

Im sure if somebody gets hurt using a Wraptor I will loose my insurance and will then not be able to sell them. Sign of the times, people wont take responsibility for there own actions. Hey that 1" dead stub I was tied to broke and dropped me 50' BUT if Paul Cox hadnt made this unit I wouldnt have been there.......

It was very hard to secure insurance for this product in the first place, Ive been told that it was only because of the recesion that I got it as the co. needed new accounts. 1 accident and thats that.......


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## ropensaddle (Oct 25, 2011)

ropetek said:


> Last year some jackass decided to pull a tree over with his GRCS. Set the unit on a tree and pulled at 90 to the intended direction. The 1/2 round bar fairlead snapped off and hit the guy in the lip and he lost some teeth. The Dude sued and in court admitted he knew he should have been using a redirect but was still awarded $250,000. Gregg Goods insurance has gone through the roof.
> 
> Im sure if somebody gets hurt using a Wraptor I will loose my insurance and will then not be able to sell them. Sign of the times, people wont take responsibility for there own actions. Hey that 1" dead stub I was tied to broke and dropped me 50' BUT if Paul Cox hadnt made this unit I wouldnt have been there.......
> 
> It was very hard to secure insurance for this product in the first place, Ive been told that it was only because of the recesion that I got it as the co. needed new accounts. 1 accident and thats that.......


 
My the world is friggin nuts never would of thought tree men would be such coffee crotchers


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 26, 2011)

ropetek said:


> Last year some jackass decided to pull a tree over with his GRCS. Set the unit on a tree and pulled at 90 to the intended direction. The 1/2 round bar fairlead snapped off and hit the guy in the lip and he lost some teeth. The Dude sued and in court admitted he knew he should have been using a redirect but was still awarded $250,000. Gregg Goods insurance has gone through the roof.
> 
> Im sure if somebody gets hurt using a Wraptor I will loose my insurance and will then not be able to sell them. Sign of the times, people wont take responsibility for there own actions. Hey that 1" dead stub I was tied to broke and dropped me 50' BUT if Paul Cox hadnt made this unit I wouldnt have been there.......
> 
> It was very hard to secure insurance for this product in the first place, Ive been told that it was only because of the recesion that I got it as the co. needed new accounts. 1 accident and thats that.......


 
gotta give you kudos for going out on a limb with this thing. My idea is just to eventually build one to run off of a stihl powerhead and take responsibility for my own actions with my own machine, but I'll likely just be giving you a call one of these days. Just make sure the motor doesn't say made in China. I know it's an undertaking to just build one, let along make it go of it within this industry. Glad to hear it's coming about for you.

I wish willie would rewrite his song about mama's not letting their babies grow up to be cowboys. The doctors and lawyers and such have this society screwed up every which way but loose. He could call it "On second thought."

Have any distant family from Glasgow, KY by chance?


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## Iustinian (Nov 2, 2011)

We have done something very similar to the Wraptor with our GRCS - hooking up the climbing system like on a regular climb, with a friction saver, then the groundman uses the stihl drill with the special adapter bit to elevator us to the top floor of the tree lol. More of a laugh than anything really though, because it doesn't take us long to ascend a tree bodythrusting or footlocking anyway. We do however, use it all day long like that during the climbing competitions to raise the dummy up for aerial rescue training. Works great and appears to be faster than the Wraptor. Plus you can snap the bollard in for lowering branches if you were going to use it for doing treework and not just aerial rescue training.

It is a cool device, I'll admit that, and appears to be constructed well. However, I don't think it should be used by guys who are too out of shape to get up into the tree without it. If the purpose of the device is strictly to save energy on the climber, then its being put to good use.

I'm not too fond of the CMI Ropewalker above the device as a back up though. I'd rather see a prussic of some kind there instead. My reason for that: just like on the Gibb's Ascender, "not to be used for self-belay". At some point, those cams are capable of cutting the climb line.

Also, I really don't like seeing close contact of gas powered equipment to my ropes to any extent. Gas and oil are not good for ropes, so having a gas powered drill advancing my climb line doesn't really appeal to me if it has a chance of getting on my rope. And before anyone says anything, yea my chainsaws can do that throughout the course of a workday, but we're aren't going without chainsaws lol, but we can go without the Wraptor. If you can't, you shouldn't be climbing in the first place.

After watching Ropetek's demo video's I do like how they would have us using a SRT rope, and intending for you to install your drt line in the tree once you've reached your terminal height in the tree - if you follow their demo, then after you've lowered the Wraptor, you now have two climbing lines installed in the tree, which is a requirement under ANSI. (In case of the need for an aerial rescue, you are required to have an ascess line, in addition to your primary climbing line for when rescue crews arrive or so you're co-worker can come get you). So I definitely like that aspect of the Wraptor.

I think that it's important to daily inspect the drum or whatever is called (where the rope installs in the device) to make sure there's no imperfections in the metal that could tear your rope. 

For the price he's asking for, I'm not buying one, especially since we already have a GRCS which can do the same thing for me if I wanted it to, and my GRCS does many many other things that the Wraptor will never be able to do. 

At the end of the day, its still about what works best for each individual. I still have guys that crack jokes about my foot ascender being a lazy way to get up into a tree, but it saves me tons of effort - but it only costs $70. As long as I'm in great shape, I won't really need to get the Wraptor - and I'll probably be laughing at the guys I see hauling their fat arses up into their trees with this thing, the same way guys sometimes laugh at my Pantin - oh well hahahahahaha

And I don't care what anyone says - that Wraptors NEVER, EVER going to beat Mark Chisholm's record of 15 meters (49 feet 2.5 inches) in 13.8 seconds - and neither will the guys using it hahahahahahahaha


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 2, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> We have done something very similar to the Wraptor with our GRCS - hooking up the climbing system like on a regular climb, with a friction saver, then the groundman uses the stihl drill with the special adapter bit to elevator us to the top floor of the tree lol. More of a laugh than anything really though, because it doesn't take us long to ascend a tree bodythrusting or footlocking anyway. We do however, use it all day long like that during the climbing competitions to raise the dummy up for aerial rescue training. Works great and appears to be faster than the Wraptor. Plus you can snap the bollard in for lowering branches if you were going to use it for doing treework and not just aerial rescue training.
> 
> It is a cool device, I'll admit that, and appears to be constructed well. However, I don't think it should be used by guys who are too out of shape to get up into the tree without it. If the purpose of the device is strictly to save energy on the climber, then its being put to good use.
> 
> ...



Welcome Mark, 
Jeff


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## treevet (Nov 2, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> We have done something very similar to the Wraptor with our GRCS - hooking up the climbing system like on a regular climb, with a friction saver, then the groundman uses the stihl drill with the special adapter bit to elevator us to the top floor of the tree lol. More of a laugh than anything really though, because it doesn't take us long to ascend a tree bodythrusting or footlocking anyway. We do however, use it all day long like that during the climbing competitions to raise the dummy up for aerial rescue training. Works great and appears to be faster than the Wraptor. Plus you can snap the bollard in for lowering branches if you were going to use it for doing treework and not just aerial rescue training.
> 
> It is a cool device, I'll admit that, and appears to be constructed well. However, I don't think it should be used by guys who are too out of shape to get up into the tree without it. If the purpose of the device is strictly to save energy on the climber, then its being put to good use.
> 
> ...



hahahahah, shut your sushi hole and get to work. If you can't afford one, at the end of the day the experienced tree man that owns one, will make a ton more $ than your long winded as s hahahaha.


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## Iustinian (Nov 2, 2011)

*lemme quess*



treevet said:


> hahahahah, shut your sushi hole and get to work. If you can't afford one, at the end of the day the experienced tree man that owns one, will make a ton more $ than your long winded as s hahahaha.



1. you don't own one yet.....

2. your one of the fat arses who needs it to get up in the tree

3. you don't know how to and/or can't footlock

4. you're still climbing on the 13mm blue streak and using the traditional system

5. I'm doing just fine without one

but thanks for the reply - I like your humor


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## treevet (Nov 2, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> 1. you don't own one yet.....
> 
> 2. your one of the fat arses who needs it to get up in the tree
> 
> ...



Had one for almost 2 years.

6' 184 lbs, can press my weight 10 times, curl 105 10 times and run 6 miles in less than 45 mins., at 62.

Been footlocking since I was a kid but no need to anymore......dipschit.

Whatever system I use I have done more tree work than your momma has hairs on her as s.

Quit making lame assumptions in braindead posts such as your numbnuts comparison to that stupid grcs to the Wraptor. 

You sound like a poser. Are you?


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## Nailsbeats (Nov 3, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> We have done something very similar to the Wraptor with our GRCS - hooking up the climbing system like on a regular climb, with a friction saver, then the groundman uses the stihl drill with the special adapter bit to elevator us to the top floor of the tree lol. More of a laugh than anything really though, because it doesn't take us long to ascend a tree bodythrusting or footlocking anyway. We do however, use it all day long like that during the climbing competitions to raise the dummy up for aerial rescue training. Works great and appears to be faster than the Wraptor. Plus you can snap the bollard in for lowering branches if you were going to use it for doing treework and not just aerial rescue training.
> 
> It is a cool device, I'll admit that, and appears to be constructed well. However, I don't think it should be used by guys who are too out of shape to get up into the tree without it. If the purpose of the device is strictly to save energy on the climber, then its being put to good use.
> 
> ...




Oh no, my ropes are melting from all the gas spilling everywhere! Give me a break, lame.


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## Iustinian (Nov 3, 2011)

hahahaha - aaaaaaaaaw u guys getting all emotional about your little toy now? hehehe. good for you guys, the more you use that thing, the slower you'll be when it quits working. I love the "I've been doing this longer than you've been alive" -- I'll bet neither of you two has ever placed in the top half of any climbing event -- and you never will if you keep using your training wheels like the wraptor. 

when I'm old and wrinkled and fat and lazy - maybe I'll need one too hahahahahahaha. how bout if we get you guys a powerchair or a little rascal scooter to get you to that tree. I'll send the vet a super pack of geritol and for respirator for nails.


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## Iustinian (Nov 3, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> Oh no, my ropes are melting from all the gas spilling everywhere! Give me a break, lame.



you can take your break under your Wraptor (training wheels are whats lame) apparently hahahahaha


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## Iustinian (Nov 3, 2011)

treevet said:


> Had one for almost 2 years.
> 
> 6' 184 lbs, can press my weight 10 times, curl 105 10 times and run 6 miles in less than 45 mins., at 62.
> 
> ...



you probably haven't got a hair left on yours if your riding your power chair little rascal scooter training wheels wraptor up the tree ol man. haha

Its funny you feel the need to pronounce your amazing feats of physical mediocrity in your self-validating defensive rant. 

you sound old and bitter -- are you? hahaha

don't worry, you may be old and wrinkled but you're taking us young kids with ya right? hahahaha


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## k5alive (Nov 3, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> I mounted a CB radio and a drink holder on mine. 10-4?
> Phil



hell yeah buddy, check youre 6 seems like we might have some spillage


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## treevet (Nov 3, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> hahahaha - aaaaaaaaaw u guys getting all emotional about your little toy now? hehehe. good for you guys, the more you use that thing, the slower you'll be when it quits working. I love the "I've been doing this longer than you've been alive" -- I'll bet neither of you two has ever placed in the top half of any climbing event -- and you never will if you keep using your training wheels like the wraptor.
> 
> when I'm old and wrinkled and fat and lazy - maybe I'll need one too hahahahahahaha. how bout if we get you guys a powerchair or a little rascal scooter to get you to that tree. I'll send the vet a super pack of geritol and for respirator for nails.



no climbing contests for me since mid 70's which I did real good at....too busy out making tons of cold cash.

don't need any geritol to kick your lightweight ass. The best you can brag is "in the top half"....pathetic greenboy. 

are you actually employed by anyone or do you just fumble around with "your system" all day?


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 3, 2011)

Got a guy here who has placed 1st or 2nd in several climbing competitions, he used that as a bonus when I hired him remember the hippie?, to bad he spent most of his time practicing for the contest, cuase he really SUCKED at tree work. He was the one who pruned deadwood off of deadwood, but boy he sure could get up the tree fast.

VA called!!!! I may be gettin one! But it may be in 10 or so years at their rate! Cant wait that long, going to get a double pulley and put it on the mower deck of my greiner 2000, Then I can run a rope in it and use it as a Wraptor when we engage the blades.

That's really lame that that guy sued him, that's like suing Stihl if you cut your own arm off.


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## Iustinian (Nov 3, 2011)

treevet said:


> no climbing contests for me since mid 70's which I did real good at....too busy out making tons of cold cash.
> 
> don't need any geritol to kick your lightweight ass. The best you can brag is "in the top half"....pathetic greenboy.
> 
> are you actually employed by anyone or do you just fumble around with "your system" all day?



I always laugh at the guys who are "too busy making money" to show up at the climbing events; if you were really making that much money you'd have the time to at least make an appearance, take one day off with your guys to learn a few things, and show support for your local event planners - maybe your customers would appreciate seeing you there; our local climbing event always makes the news and generates interest in our industry. 

I dont think you could kick your own ass if you still have both legs and your ass. 

I didnt limit myself to being in the top half by saying I believed you were in the bottom half. pay attention hahahaha

So I heard Mattel is making a new doll - their making it in your likeness and naming it "Timbersports barbie" complete with a Wraptor hehehehehe

It's really not that difficult to get into the top of a tree if you are conditioned for this type of work. Really it's not. I said it was a cool idea and all, but unfortunately the more that you rely on that thing, the sloppier your ascents going to be when you don't use it. You say it makes you money by saving you time and energy, but its slower and relying on it will make you less conditioned for this work.

As far as you believing that all the "experienced" tree guys going and getting one, how many of those has he sold? are you saying that those are the only "experienced" tree guys? lol

At the end of the day - you spent $2,500 on a device and you're still slower (and getting slower everytime you use it) than those of us that are footlocking.


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## treevet (Nov 3, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> I always laugh at the guys who are "too busy making money" to show up at the climbing events; if you were really making that much money you'd have the time to at least make an appearance, take one day off with your guys to learn a few things, and show support for your local event planners - maybe your customers would appreciate seeing you there; our local climbing event always makes the news and generates interest in our industry.
> 
> I dont think you could kick your own ass if you still have both legs and your ass.
> 
> ...



Isn't that a bucket truck in your avatar Vaginian? Selective indignation huh?

You aren't likely a hundredth of the climber or treeman you think you are. What is your real name. I'll look up the national results. Are you an employee? What do you make? If that is your bucket which I assume it is, link your website so I can see what all you have bought with all this perceived climbing expertise Nancy.

At the end of the day you are just another new douche that shows up here all impressed with herself and will doddle off in short order with your tail stuck up your puss.


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## epicklein22 (Nov 3, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> I always laugh at the guys who are "too busy making money" to show up at the climbing events; if you were really making that much money you'd have the time to at least make an appearance, take one day off with your guys to learn a few things, and show support for your local event planners - maybe your customers would appreciate seeing you there; our local climbing event always makes the news and generates interest in our industry.
> 
> I dont think you could kick your own ass if you still have both legs and your ass.
> 
> ...



I laugh at the guys that are always saying how busy they are making $, but they are here posting everyday/night. Must be their superior knowledge and equipment giving them some extra free time. HAHAHAHA 

Besides, you gain more knowledge listening and through experience than talking on the web. This place has tidbits of good info floating around, you just gotta wad through the crap and chest thumping.


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## treevet (Nov 3, 2011)

epicklein22 said:


> I laugh at the guys that are always saying how busy they are making $, but they are here posting everyday/night. Must be their superior knowledge and equipment giving them some extra free time. HAHAHAHA
> 
> Besides, you gain more knowledge listening and through experience than talking on the web. This place has tidbits of good info floating around, you just gotta wad through the crap and chest thumping.



I can see where "chest thumping" would be perceived by a very young part time beginner that still goes to college when highly experienced tree guys are just talking shop. Popping zits and making arm pit noises is still their forte (sound familiar pickles?) not routinely discussing huge dangerous td's etc.

Go over to the "tree climber 101" forum where you belong and take Mr. Climbing Contest man with you if you don't mind.

PS....if you ever got your little pencil dich pointed in the direction of Cinci. from Mantua where ever TF that is.....give me a call and I will show you what a real tree service of the top echelon does 8 hours, every day, 6 days a week, all year, every year, for 41 years now.


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## epicklein22 (Nov 3, 2011)

treevet said:


> I can see where "chest thumping" would be perceived by a very young part time beginner that still goes to college when highly experienced tree guys are just talking shop. Popping zits and making arm pit noises is still their forte (sound familiar pickles?) not routinely discussing huge dangerous td's etc.
> 
> Go over to the "tree climber 101" forum where you belong and take Mr. Climbing Contest man with you if you don't mind.
> 
> PS....if you ever got your little pencil dich pointed in the direction of Cinci. from Mantua where ever TF that is.....give me a call and I will show you what a real tree service of the top echelon does 8 hours, every day, 6 days a week, all year, every year, for 41 years now.



Haha, typical response. I learn a lot from ya, mostly how not to act or talk.

BTW, I'll take ya up on that offer some day when down in the queen city (maybe when I buy a duc next year I'll ride down) and will give ya an honest 8+ hours of work no problem. Same goes for you when you get your ass up to Mantua. I believe my boss is your age, but he just sells the work these days. You guys can reminiscence about manilla ropes and 090's up in the tree. He's got a full plate keeping 3 crews running and all the other ins and outs of the business, let alone taking care of his properties and family.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 3, 2011)

treevet said:


> I can see where "chest thumping" would be perceived by a very young part time beginner that still goes to college when highly experienced tree guys are just talking shop. Popping zits and making arm pit noises is still their forte (sound familiar pickles?) not routinely discussing huge dangerous td's etc.
> 
> Go over to the "tree climber 101" forum where you belong and take Mr. Climbing Contest man with you if you don't mind.
> 
> PS....if you ever got your little pencil dich pointed in the direction of Cinci. from Mantua where ever TF that is.....give me a call and I will show you what a real tree service of the top echelon does 8 hours, every day, 6 days a week, all year, every year, for 41 years now.



I think them contests should be pulling fifteen foot overhang over the three phase I was once much faster than today but really who cares, I'm fast enough to still satisfy myself and most employers would still be impressed and satisfied. I will take my wraptor because; I have earned it, paid my dues, gave my blood ,snot and sweat. I used to work a fulltime job and my business, still could if the right position came along. I ain't gonna work for peanuts though.


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

treevet said:


> Isn't that a bucket truck in your avatar Vaginian? Selective indignation huh?
> 
> You aren't likely a hundredth of the climber or treeman you think you are. What is your real name. I'll look up the national results. Are you an employee? What do you make? If that is your bucket which I assume it is, link your website so I can see what all you have bought with all this perceived climbing expertise Nancy.
> 
> "At the end of the day you are just another new douche that shows up here all impressed with herself and will doddle off in short order with your tail stuck up your puss."



yea its a bucket truck, and if you put your pop bottle thick glasses up close enough, you'd see the ten year old little girl (my daughter, before you make any perverted remarks) in there. Way to go with the d-bag comment though doosh. It is axiomatic to discuss how a forestry truck makes a tree service money - you're an idiot lol. However, even with setup time, that truck is still faster than you ever were and especially now with your wraptor. 

lol - I wasnt the one sitting here tooting my own horn like you have been, there ya 10karat blowhard. I've been in business for myself for a little while, but have been doing this for years. We specialize in crane removals and the like - and other tree services in the area sub jobs to us all the time - hey we can't get out there and bid them all ya know. 

That's funny - nice to see you get all in your feelings and emotions when someone tosses in a few valid comments about a peice of gear. Ya never know but some idiot tries to make this thing work for them without knowing what they're doing and screw it up for the creator, as he even points out earlier. 

You're not hurting my feelings a bit, but you certainly are showing everyone here your ass. Anyone who's really as good as you say you are, wouldn't feel the need to blow so hard on it. The old guys around here, arent still climbing -- they're sitting in their cozy little trucks and offices making money the easy way, and letting us young bucks handle production - because we are stronger, faster, safer, and better. We still learn from them and respect them, but you're obviously not in that place vet. Someone's stepped on you and made you bitter though its apparent.

and strictly because of your age -- lol, I hate to say this, but I gotta fire back at ya old timer -- I'll be here long after you're gone hahahahaha but stay safe just the same will ya 

Funny how reviewing a peice of equipment turns into a pissing match when they're feelings involved lol

I love this site so far


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> The old guys around here, arent still climbing -- they're sitting in their cozy little trucks and offices making money the easy way, and letting us young bucks handle production - because we are stronger, faster, safer, and better.




#1 stronger: well maybe,maybe not there is something I like to call a work bone and you get it from years of hard physical labor. 
#2 faster: not likely especially on difficult removals I found it easier to do the work myself than trying to train a youngster and I ran crews for twenty years.
#3 Safer: ok how are you going to be safer if your still chitting green?
#4 Better: not what the ladies tell me 


BTW: them bushes yall have out there are cake and I can assure you this was last year before getting the wraptor in 105 degree heat and 69 percent humidity. A wraptor ins not necessary but I enjoy the benefits of reduced fatigue.
I have climbed in Iowa,Well actually, seven states but it always seemed more like bushes out there


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## mattfr12 (Nov 4, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> #1 stronger: well maybe,maybe not there is something I like to call a work bone and you get it from years of hard physical labor.
> #2 faster: not likely especially on difficult removals I found it easier to do the work myself than trying to train a youngster and I ran crews for twenty years.
> #3 Safer: ok how are you going to be safer if your still chitting green?
> #4 Better: not what the ladies tell me
> ...





wow i just started reading this and thies kids are a bunch of crap and im probably younger than one or two of them. climbing competitions? thats how you justify how good you are? Been to plenty of those actually put my rope in a tree in plenty of those. Not really comparable to real world work. is it fun? yes but the hard part is actually dismantiling the tree climbing some tree in the middle of a park, (where they usually are) is just fun and challenging in its own aspect. And when people start speaking of speed that kinda makes me think you dont know what your doing. thiers an efficient pace that will keep you from getting burned out in two hours of climbing. But i always tell my guys speed is not what im after safe is what im after jobs are bid to allow enough time to work at a safe pace.

Real world work is not some tree with a bunch of bells hanging in it for you to run around and ding with your handsaw is just toying around. is fun tho they usually do find some pretty nice trees to climb.


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## treevet (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> > yea its a bucket truck,. I've been in business for myself for a little while,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## treevet (Nov 4, 2011)

epicklein22 said:


> Haha, typical response. I learn a lot from ya, mostly how not to act or talk.
> 
> BTW, I'll take ya up on that offer some day when down in the queen city (maybe when I buy a duc next year I'll ride down) and will give ya an honest 8+ hours of work no problem. Same goes for you when you get your ass up to Mantua. I believe my boss is your age, but he just sells the work these days. You guys can reminiscence about manilla ropes and 090's up in the tree. He's got a full plate keeping 3 crews running and all the other ins and outs of the business, let alone taking care of his properties and family.



Bring that Duc down here, we got some of the best sport bike roads in the country 20 mins. from my house. Might have to give ya a spankin with my new Speed Trip tho lol.

Tell that ole fart boss ya got he quit way too soon and put down that fork, go to the gym, and get back up that tree lol.


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 4, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> I have climbed in Iowa,Well actually, seven states but it always seemed more like bushes out there
> [/IMG]



Hey now! We got some biggies, no redwoods tho!
The competitions are a joke sometimes, pick the easiest tree in the park, they prune it before hand, making the canopy clear so they can see the action. Don't get me wrong, there are some bad mofo's that compete, but most of the time, these guys judge their own skill by the local competitions, then they get in the real world and do stuff like knock chimneys off a house (Iowa superstar did this last year) or drop a chunk thru a house from a crane because he didn't know how to tie it off (another Iowa climbing competition superstar, this one also broke his leg trying to ride the ball down while it had a huge lead on it) So please do not use that as a way to gauge your skill. So far, all the competitors that I know, and some have one many competitions, suck at actual tree work. Suck real bad. That is why they go to competitions all the time, it makes them feel better about themselves, and no one there knows what they are really capable off. Everyone can become someone else while they are there.
Now at the national's or international's, you will finds some guys who can do both, but that is just a handful. 
To criticize any piece of equipment that is designed to make our lives easier, just because it is easier, well that's just not very smart


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Hey now! We got some biggies, no redwoods tho!
> The competitions are a joke sometimes, pick the easiest tree in the park, they prune it before hand, making the canopy clear so they can see the action. Don't get me wrong, there are some bad mofo's that compete, but most of the time, these guys judge their own skill by the local competitions, then they get in the real world and do stuff like knock chimneys off a house (Iowa superstar did this last year) or drop a chunk thru a house from a crane because he didn't know how to tie it off (another Iowa climbing competition superstar, this one also broke his leg trying to ride the ball down while it had a huge lead on it) So please do not use that as a way to gauge your skill. So far, all the competitors that I know, and some have one many competitions, suck at actual tree work. Suck real bad. That is why they go to competitions all the time, it makes them feel better about themselves, and no one there knows what they are really capable off. Everyone can become someone else while they are there.
> Now at the national's or international's, you will finds some guys who can do both, but that is just a handful.
> To criticize any piece of equipment that is designed to make our lives easier, just because it is easier, well that's just not very smart



Lol yeah there were a few cottonwoods that compared. The big difference is I am smack dab center of a national forest so the majority of trees here are in the big range. Granted it is not redwoods either but what I was getting at was most of our trees first limb is 40 to 50 foot mark and a wraptor just makes sense to use if you have earned the privilege to use it. Our average tree is 90 foot and I have removed several 130 plus here and in Michigan. Indiana had a few tall and big ones too. I say the difference is the average tree and in the pine belt you will find they average much taller than most of the midwest.

When I travel I watch the trees shrink some and become less and less in dispersed unless I go straight south or east in Tennesee from here. When I go through Iowa I see miles and miles of corn,alfalfa, and I'm always looking for huge antlers hiding in it  The smallest trees I have seen is western Texas with a few pecan as exception their average tree is 45 foot or smaller if the miles of mesquite is figured in.


I am always fascinated by different eco-systems and not at all putting your area down. My observations are just from my travels.
I'm always thinking about areas my bucket would be more than a ladder as here it is just that, a ladder. 






I really am fascinated by the different eco systems of other areas


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## treevet (Nov 4, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol yeah there were a few cottonwoods that compared. The big difference is I am smack dab center of a national forest so the majority of trees here are in the big range. Granted it is not redwoods either but what I was getting at was most of our trees first limb is 40 to 50 foot mark and a wraptor just makes sense to use if you have earned the privilege to use it. Our average tree is 90 foot and I have removed several 130 plus here and in Michigan. Indiana had a few tall and big ones too. I say the difference is the average tree and in the pine belt you will find they average much taller than most of the midwest.
> 
> When I travel I watch the trees shrink some and become less and less in dispersed unless I go straight south or east in Tennesee from here. When I go through Iowa I see miles and miles of corn,alfalfa, and I'm always looking for huge antlers hiding in it  The smallest trees I have seen is western Texas with a few pecan as exception their average tree is 45 foot or smaller if the miles of mesquite is figured in.
> 
> ...



Maybe you could clear just one thing up for me Rope.....

Are you fascinated by different eco systems in other areas?:msp_smile:opcorn:


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

treevet said:


> Maybe you could clear just one thing up for me Rope.....
> 
> Are you fascinated by different eco systems in other areas?:msp_smile:opcorn:



Yes and their natives too Yall talk funny:hmm3grin2orange: No really bro its cause I love to hunt different ecosystems. Forest gets boring and is harder to pattern movement compared to fewer trees and huge cornfield or soybeans. It is a dream land to a hunter like myself. I could pattern a monster fairly easy there imo.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 4, 2011)

*I'd love to get a wraptor, but I gave up hunting ...*

Sadly, I just traded my .300 Win Mag for a clutch in my dump truck. I don't think I could even fire it anymore since the injuries from my motorcycle wreck two years ago. Both shoulders were crushed so I don't even have the option of firing it left handed.

You'd love to hunt deer where I live rope, we have some monster bucks here in W, PA. Right behind my house is 168 acres or woodland that is the home of a lengendary linage of big bucks. The reining king of the hill so to speak is a big buck named "Wilson" I've seen him on a few occasions and he is Boone & Crocket territory. I almost hit him with my van one very early morning.

I have him patterned (_as well as his Father, and probably his father's father_) but the big old bucks up there get to be big old bucks by staying pretty nocturnal, although the rut may bring them into daylight movement from time to time. I'd say I've hunted "Wilson" for 10 ~ 15 years and never got a shot. One season's "Wilson" got nailed by a truck near where I almost hit one. The game wardens took the rack, but it was reputed to be "huge". I'm sure he's up there right now, getting ready to give the local hunters a chance at local fame for bagging him.


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## treevet (Nov 4, 2011)

*WTF.....that's like a normal post! *



the Aerialist said:


> Sadly, I just traded my .300 Win Mag for a clutch in my dump truck. I don't think I could even fire it anymore since the injuries from my motorcycle wreck two years ago. Both shoulders were crushed so I don't even have the option of firing it left handed.
> 
> You'd love to hunt deer where I live rope, we have some monster bucks here in W, PA. Right behind my house is 168 acres or woodland that is the home of a lengendary linage of big bucks. The reining king of the hill so to speak is a big buck named "Wilson" I've seen him on a few occasions and he is Boone & Crocket territory. I almost hit him with my van one very early morning.
> 
> I have him patterned (_as well as his Father, and probably his father's father_) but the big old bucks up there get to be big old bucks by staying pretty nocturnal, although the rut may bring them into daylight movement from time to time. I'd say I've hunted "Wilson" for 10 ~ 15 years and never got a shot. One season's "Wilson" got nailed by a truck near where I almost hit one. The game wardens took the rack, but it was reputed to be "huge". I'm sure he's up there right now, getting ready to give the local hunters a chance at local fame for bagging him.



Wonders never cease!


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

yea, Rope I can see where the wraptor would come in handy for trees that tall lol -- doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to use one here in Iowa though. My point was though, that thing's not going to improve your tree-climbing skills at all - maybe your bill-paying skills lol if you're specializing in trees like in your pics tho. Still, footlockings not that hard, actually kinda effortless really, and even in our cottonwoods here, most of us are just fine doing that. 

Vet - I think you have to be the grouchiest cockiest sourest old man I've ever even heard of lol. You're definitely full of yourself though lol. I have been laughing at your posts and dour rants -- you actually funny, whether you mean to be or not. Don't try denying that you're one of the old school hack trim spikers though, even if you have reformed to spikeless trims these days. and I dont care if ya like me or not -- you and your girlfriends can click negative on my rep all day and it wont hurt my feelings a bit lol. and it doesn't matter how many toys ya have Timbersports barbie; one of the shadiest crookedest oldest tree service hacks in our area has lots of gear and equipment too -- that doesnt make you a good arborist -- it just means you're a shrewd (and maybe even successful) business man. I am wondering though -- are you a certified arborist? not that it matters that much to you, just wondered if you took the time to get that credential. but the fastest, anywhere, anytime? that I'd love to see, especially at your age. 

I somewhat agree with what some of you guys have said about the climbing competitions - theres a few guys around here that usually place pretty high locally - and they're still crashing stuff down on driveways and houses and doing stupid dangerous stuff. The fastest guy that we know in Des Moines, we've actually seen him jumping from one tree to another WITH NO ROPE. He landed upside-down hugging the trunk of the tree he jumped into. So yea, fast isnt necessarily better -- but in this town, everybody that isn't framing or laying bricks anymore (because of the housing crash) disrespects our industry by thinking they can just walk in and do what we do -- and they underbid us to boot. SO here, you have to be fast to make money. And we're still doing those big crane removals and chemical work, etc that those guys wont ever be able to do so that helps too. 

I wasnt saying that being good in comps gaurantees you'll be a good arborist. Generally though, around here, the guys that suck horribly at the comps are the guys spiking trims and taking shortcuts, etc. There are exceptions of course.

Me? I went to college, did an apprenticeship with the U.S. Department of Labor, have my chemical license, etc., put in a few years as a climber trainee, then went to our local climbing events and met up with some guys like Scott Beecher, Noell Boyer, Christian Schultz -- self studied on the web and in the trees here. I've never been a groundman, and I always got put in the chiptrucks because I could climb well. Not saying I'm the best here or anywhere, but if you're doing tree work in Des Moines, you or someone you work with most likely knows me or has heard of me. I've helped a lot of tree services in this city, and I do alot of the most difficult stuff in trees here. as well as help the green climbers finetune their climbing system. I've srt'd, drt'd, footlocked, tried all the ascenders and mar bars etc, and its still faster and easier for me to ascend a tree on my Sterling htp (black tactical) and work the canopy on Blaze, Lava or Poison Ivy. I've tried Blue Streak, True Blue, and ALL the 11m ropes for that matter -- about the only tool I dont and probably wont have is the Wraptor. Wont do me any good in this town until I'm Vet's age hahahaha -- or way fatter I guess.

I've got several spots you can come hunt anytime Rope -- corn fed deer have nice racks lol. I'm tracking a 170 this season. And trapping the hell outta the coyotes around our place.

and if you really wanna good gauge of how good you are -- try taking down a mature hackberry or oak in the middle of a cemetery. Those old headstones will crumble like stale bread when they're hit by even a small log. and then its your ass - destroying someone's great great grandmothers memorial. I've never hit or broken one, but seen what happens. We get hired in those jobs all the time, but its definitely worthwhile. 

we've also removed a mature american elm that was growing at a 45 degree angle directly next to a fence and the neighbor was being a doosh about "no one sets a foot on my property". I speedlined it 200 feet away with the butt ends landing right in front of the chipper. not the fastest way to do it, but it was cool as freakin hell.


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## Zale (Nov 4, 2011)

Guys, I am leaving the business. After reading these posts, I realized I can never get to the levels of Treevet, Aerial Mason and Iustinian. Its been real.uttahere2:


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> yea, Rope I can see where the wraptor would come in handy for trees that tall lol -- doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to use one here in Iowa though. My point was though, that thing's not going to improve your tree-climbing skills at all - maybe your bill-paying skills lol if you're specializing in trees like in your pics tho. Still, footlockings not that hard, actually kinda effortless really, and even in our cottonwoods here, most of us are just fine doing that.


Well may not improve skills in tree work but the reduced fatigue helps keep wifey happy at night lol. I must ask you though if you have a bucket and a tree is easier done from the bucket, do you climb instead 

It is just plain and simple, it reduces fatigue and nothing against those who do not use one but after the third tree here; I am much more rested than before getting my wraptor. Why do we have wheels? I think I can climb with the best and not feel ashamed and I body thrusted 30 years, still can and do, the wraptor does not do it all ya know.

Btw cemeteries are one thing this is another also before the wraptor 







three phaze power and growing out of roof is another





also done craneless


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## treevet (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> Me? I went to college, did an apprenticeship with the U.S. Department of Labor, have my chemical license, etc., put in a few years as a climber trainee, then went to our local climbing events.
> 
> and if you really wanna good gauge of how good you are -- try taking down a mature hackberry or oak in the middle of a cemetery. Those old headstones will crumble like stale bread when they're hit by even a small log. and then its your ass - destroying someone's great great grandmothers memorial. I've never hit or broken one, but seen what happens. We get hired in those jobs all the time, but its definitely worthwhile.
> 
> we've also removed a mature american elm that was growing at a 45 degree angle directly next to a fence and the neighbor was being a doosh about "no one sets a foot on my property". I speedlined it 200 feet away with the butt ends landing right in front of the chipper. not the fastest way to do it, but it was cool as freakin hell.



WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!

Wow....I mean WOW....you actually took down a hackberry or even an oak....IN THE MIDDLE OF A CEMETERY???????

Man, I was flabergasted but then you went out there and took down an elm..............

at a 45 degree angle.....

fukin right next a fence .....

and the NEIGHBOR WAS A DOOSH ABOUT IT??????!!!!!!!

(Absolutely NO one sets foot on his property ) and.......

YOu did it cool as freakin hell?????with a speedline no less?!?!!!!

Well hell.....I give up.....you win.....you are easily one of the more impressive (in the top half) of the gay dich heads that has shown up on this forum lately.

I am impressed beyond words (yawn).


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Sadly, I just traded my .300 Win Mag for a clutch in my dump truck. I don't think I could even fire it anymore since the injuries from my motorcycle wreck two years ago. Both shoulders were crushed so I don't even have the option of firing it left handed.
> 
> You'd love to hunt deer where I live rope, we have some monster bucks here in W, PA. Right behind my house is 168 acres or woodland that is the home of a lengendary linage of big bucks. The reining king of the hill so to speak is a big buck named "Wilson" I've seen him on a few occasions and he is Boone & Crocket territory. I almost hit him with my van one very early morning.
> 
> I have him patterned (_as well as his Father, and probably his father's father_) but the big old bucks up there get to be big old bucks by staying pretty nocturnal, although the rut may bring them into daylight movement from time to time. I'd say I've hunted "Wilson" for 10 ~ 15 years and never got a shot. One season's "Wilson" got nailed by a truck near where I almost hit one. The game wardens took the rack, but it was reputed to be "huge". I'm sure he's up there right now, getting ready to give the local hunters a chance at local fame for bagging him.



Rifle is too easy, I bow hunt we have record animals here too but the best hunting is on millionaire leases. I still made the pope & young with Wilson's cousin bucko; here he is, public land bow kill! I missed his grand pappy which was pushing 200 inch typical a few years back! He had the same look just several more points and 16 inch g 2s. Here is my book deer 141 4/8 typical net P&Y! Deer were made for bows. I could never be proud of a rifle kill the way I am of my bow kill, the animal must be patterned to the t with a bow, big difference in taking the animal at 200 yards verses 5


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## treevet (Nov 4, 2011)

Zale said:


> Guys, I am leaving the business. After reading these posts, I realized I can never get to the levels of Treevet, .uttahere2:



Yeah, you won't ever get to this level..see ya, hava nice life. Don't let the door hit ya in the as s....


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

*nice job*



ropensaddle said:


> Well may not improve skills in tree work but the reduced fatigue helps keep wifey happy at night lol. I must ask you though if you have a bucket and a tree is easier done from the bucket, do you climb instead
> 
> It is just plain and simple, it reduces fatigue and nothing against those who do not use one but after the third tree here; I am much more rested than before getting my wraptor. Why do we have wheels? I think I can climb with the best and not feel ashamed and I body thrusted 30 years, still can and do, the wraptor does not do it all ya know.
> 
> ...



sometimes I do climb even if a tree can be accessed with the aerial lift - like if power lines would be in the way of the boom, but in the most recent case, we did a pine removal at the zoo, and the chip truck was in the shop. It was easier on my groundguys (and made the job go faster) if I used the forestry truck to chip into and just climbed the thing, so yea, sometimes I do. 

and that tree looked like fun - how long did it take? were you able to use a crane on that one?


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

*Timbersports barbie, I mean Treevet lol*



treevet said:


> WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!
> 
> Wow....I mean WOW....you actually took down a hackberry or even an oak....IN THE MIDDLE OF A CEMETERY???????
> 
> ...



haven't seen or heard nothing from you that impressed me either bigshot - you're awwwwwwwful sensitive -- you and your wife share the mydol or did you eat it all this week? lol


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

treevet said:


> Yeah, you won't ever get to this level..see ya, hava nice life. Don't let the door hit ya in the as s....



OMG lmfao, Vet I think I would like kickin it with ya or kill ya, lol; no in between


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2011)

I sure Like all you guy's!
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> sometimes I do climb even if a tree can be accessed with the aerial lift - like if power lines would be in the way of the boom, but in the most recent case, we did a pine removal at the zoo, and the chip truck was in the shop. It was easier on my groundguys (and made the job go faster) if I used the forestry truck to chip into and just climbed the thing, so yea, sometimes I do.
> 
> and that tree looked like fun - how long did it take? were you able to use a crane on that one?



Well lol it took a while as it was 106 actual 116 index. I took it easy and no the owner did not want crane on his driveway, so you buck up and be a man lol. Nothing like a weak old fart toting up a 395 xp:hmm3grin2orange:


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## mattfr12 (Nov 4, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Well lol it took a while as it was 106 actual 116 index. I took it easy and no the owner did not want crane on his driveway, so you buck up and be a man lol. Nothing like a weak old fart toting up a 395 xp:hmm3grin2orange:



thats some good stuff. makes for a long day on spikes, nothing like having to take 12 inch pieces or less off all the way down because of the size of the wood.


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Well lol it took a while as it was 106 actual 116 index. I took it easy and no the owner did not want crane on his driveway, so you buck up and be a man lol. Nothing like a weak old fart toting up a 395 xp:hmm3grin2orange:



yea, we always manage to schedule the hardest jobs on the hottest days don't we? lol Sometime, if you haven't already, try a lightweight camelbak -- those things can really help, especially on the hot days, if not because of the ice cold drink right there all day, then maybe the cooling effect of having a liter of ice water strapped to your back might.

the hottest day here this year, I wound up taking down 2 dead trees right next to and growing over a nice 2 story house w/ walkout basement -- the guy wouldnt let us remove the tall aluminum chimney stack so I had to cut and rig around the damn thing. They took a pretty cool pic of me chunking it down, making a big cloud of sawdust with the 460. Not impressive like urs, but gd it was freakin hot that day.

View attachment 205744


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> yea, we always manage to schedule the hardest jobs on the hottest days don't we? lol Sometime, if you haven't already, try a lightweight camelbak -- those things can really help, especially on the hot days, if not because of the ice cold drink right there all day, then maybe the cooling effect of having a liter of ice water strapped to your back might.
> 
> the hottest day here this year, I wound up taking down 2 dead trees right next to and growing over a nice 2 story house w/ walkout basement -- the guy wouldnt let us remove the tall aluminum chimney stack so I had to cut and rig around the damn thing. They took a pretty cool pic of me chunking it down, making a big cloud of sawdust with the 460. Not impressive like urs, but gd it was freakin hot that day.
> 
> ...


PS: nice job
Our hottest day this year was 115 actual and was absolutely brutal. I seen where yall and even vet had a unusually hot one this year. That is every year here and summer lasts longer here usually. The one thing I have grown to hate is heat I remember trimming even larger trees in Houston Texas in the early eighties in the middle of their worst heat wave, record year, may be broken now but when i hear the song north to Alaska my feet itch


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Our hottest day this year was 115 actual and was absolutely brutal. I seen where yall and even vet had a unusually hot one this year. That is every year here and summer lasts longer here usually. The one thing I have grown to hate is heat I remember trimming even larger trees in Houston Texas in the early eighties in the middle of there worst heat wave, record year may be broken now but when i hear the song north to Alaska my feet itch



lol ya, heat I can usually deal with - humidity is what kills me. I'd rather limbwalk snow and ice covered bur oaks on the coldest day than do those removals on the hot and humid days. You can always put on more clothes but you can only take off so many hahahahaha


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## ropensaddle (Nov 4, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> lol ya, heat I can usually deal with - humidity is what kills me. I'd rather limbwalk snow and ice covered bur oaks on the coldest day than do those removals on the hot and humid days. You can always put on more clothes but you can only take off so many hahahahaha



Lol did I tell ya we are humid you can cut the air with a knife in summer oh I am glad it will be a while before its back lol.


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## Iustinian (Nov 5, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol did I tell ya we are humid you can cut the air with a knife in summer oh I am glad it will be a while before its back lol.



ya, when the air is so thick you have to chew it before it hits your lungs!!!! hahahahaha

"nevertheless" I'm sure I'll miss the heat when its -15 and wind blowing like crazy in a couple months tho! haha. 

Right now is my absolute favorite time of the year - seems like we usually get one hell of an influx of calls this time of year -- not a bad problem to have though. hope they're treating you the same down there too :smile2:


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 5, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol yeah there were a few cottonwoods that compared. The big difference is I am smack dab center of a national forest so the majority of trees here are in the big range. Granted it is not redwoods either but what I was getting at was most of our trees first limb is 40 to 50 foot mark and a wraptor just makes sense to use if you have earned the privilege to use it. Our average tree is 90 foot and I have removed several 130 plus here and in Michigan. Indiana had a few tall and big ones too. I say the difference is the average tree and in the pine belt you will find they average much taller than most of the midwest.
> 
> When I travel I watch the trees shrink some and become less and less in dispersed unless I go straight south or east in Tennesee from here. When I go through Iowa I see miles and miles of corn,alfalfa, and I'm always looking for huge antlers hiding in it  The smallest trees I have seen is western Texas with a few pecan as exception their average tree is 45 foot or smaller if the miles of mesquite is figured in.
> 
> ...



I have never seen anything over 110' here, and that tree is long gone, massive oak that uprooted, laying on its side, I have a pic of it with Nic (first padawan) who is 6'2", standing next to it, its still about a foot higher than him. Glad we didnt have to take er down, she did it for us! We took my measuring wheel and rolled off from tip to but, right at 110'.
Average "big" tree we work on is about 75-80'. The trunks can be massive, we get into these silver maples that look like they had a direct IV of Miracle Grow! BIG AND FAT, the main crotch on those are always a foot wider than the flare, PITA! 4-5 times a year we will get real big ones, usually, like u said, cottonwoods! We have had some pretty massive pis elms and pin oaks too. Biggest tree ever for me, pin oak, 2 years ago. 8'dia 100' tall, MASSIVE CANOPY, over 4 houses and 8 garages, tons of wires. Had to rig every piece. 
Think I may have run into some real tall evergreens, I think they were norway spruce, real skinny, REAL TALL, they were in the woods, we just dumped them and left them, never paid to much attention to the length, long time ago!
The Midwest has many micro climates, alot like San Diego. Its always interesting to see how different the same species will grow so differently,depending on where they are at, corn field vs river bank, guess it is all conditional, like anything else. 
Nothing compares to those redwoods tho, went to Sequoia Kings National Park by Gilroy, Ca. Went and seen General Sherman, HOLY FREAKIN COW! If you have never been there or to the coastal redwood park, ya gotta rope. They are so big!, its really hard to wrap your mind around it. You will never be the same after hiking those woods! Its a good change.
All that said, I will be happy to use a Wraptor on a 40fter! With my neck and shoulders bad as they are, it will be a godsend!
You hunter dudes, you would love to sit in my back yard! 8-10 females and baby's and 2 bucks, one is pretty big. I think they where fighting because the little buck is limping. They live in my woods and tear up my trees and landscaping all the time. Would love to have someone shoot them with a bow, but my wife loves them. Me, I am no hunter, but I sure will eat me some jerky and summer sausage!


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## the Aerialist (Nov 5, 2011)

*Primitive weapons are the premier hunting experience ...*



ropensaddle said:


> Rifle is too easy, I bow hunt we have record animals here too but the best hunting is on millionaire leases. I still made the pope & young with Wilson's cousin bucko; here he is, public land bow kill! I missed his grand pappy which was pushing 200 inch typical a few years back! He had the same look just several more points and 16 inch g 2s. Here is my book deer 141 4/8 typical net P&Y! Deer were made for bows. I could never be proud of a rifle kill the way I am of my bow kill, the animal must be patterned to the t with a bow, big difference in taking the animal at 200 yards verses 5



That's a real nice buck there Rope, and I couldn't agree more about bow hunting. But my bow was the first to go after the wreck, I couldn't even draw it back anymore. Where I live (Allegheny County) rifles are not permitted. Slug guns are, but hunting with the bow have always always been my best experiences. Once gun season starts the woods around here are full of armed and dangerous yahoo's shooting with little regard to where a miss goes.

The smart deer on the ridge behind my house stay close to the houses, and bed down in inaccessible places near the homes so they are unlikely to be flushed out by the shotgun toters. I set my tree stand less than 100 yards from my back door. Big tracks often appear right in my backyard, but they are made in the middle of the night. One snowy morning I was able to track "Wilson" from my backyard and I spent four hours following them through the worst brambles and jaggers with my Remington 1100. I never got close enough to see him, but I did flush him across a power line clearcut and the local Catholic Priest got a shot off on him, but it was a miss, Wilson bolted across and disappeared into the woods on the other side.

I finally lost his track when he went through an large area that the Turkeys had scratched all up. No deer is that smart are they?


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## ropensaddle (Nov 5, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> That's a real nice buck there Rope, and I couldn't agree more about bow hunting. But my bow was the first to go after the wreck, I couldn't even draw it back anymore. Where I live (Allegheny County) rifles are not permitted. Slug guns are, but hunting with the bow have always always been my best experiences. Once gun season starts the woods around here are full of armed and dangerous yahoo's shooting with little regard to where a miss goes.
> 
> The smart deer on the ridge behind my house stay close to the houses, and bed down in inaccessible places near the homes so they are unlikely to be flushed out by the shotgun toters. I set my tree stand less than 100 yards from my back door. Big tracks often appear right in my backyard, but they are made in the middle of the night. One snowy morning I was able to track "Wilson" from my backyard and I spent four hours following them through the worst brambles and jaggers with my Remington 1100. I never got close enough to see him, but I did flush him across a power line clearcut and the local Catholic Priest got a shot off on him, but it was a miss, Wilson bolted across and disappeared into the woods on the other side.
> 
> I finally lost his track when he went through an large area that the Turkeys had scratched all up. No deer is that smart are they?



Almost all bucks that have pressure are I seen this buck four times before killing him at 5 yards. I moved up the ridge he down, then back and forth. I elected to give him a break for one week then I slipped in after a cool rain I blew a estrus bleat and followed it up with tending grunts and he came to me like he was on a string. The only way we kill a mature public buck with stick and string is; when or if he makes a mistake. I usually tag out by now but I was plagued with bad shots on two big bucks lucky I did not wound them. So far I took a seven point and a doe, maybe I will get lucky enough to get one more crack at the big boy as I have one more buck tag left


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## the Aerialist (Nov 5, 2011)

*Some bad shots from my backyard ...*











[video]http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6316205484/in/photostream/[/video]

Shot in bad light through my back window.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 5, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> [video]http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6316205484/in/photostream/[/video]
> 
> Shot in bad light through my back window.


Amassing how brave the are before season begins lol, thats a fine deer great mass even tough it will lose some after velvet is rubbed. Looks to be a great wallhanger.


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## mattfr12 (Nov 5, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Amassing how brave the are before season begins lol, thats a fine deer great mass even tough it will lose some after velvet is rubbed. Looks to be a great wallhanger.



damnit im glad your done hunting those are my prime hunting grounds over by your house my inlaws have 14 acres. pretty much right across the road from you.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 6, 2011)

*And those are the little ones ...*



mattfr12 said:


> damnit im glad your done hunting those are my prime hunting grounds over by your house my inlaws have 14 acres. pretty much right across the road from you.



Ya Matt, The ridge between Kennedy and North Star roads is prime habitat, most of it is posted and private. I have permission from the major landowner at my end of the ridge. If you are going to hunt during shotgun season I'll be your guide and videographer, but if you are lucky enough to bag "Wilson" (_named for Wilson School_) I get half the rack! lol ...


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