# Help with Descending!?!?!!



## lukesland77 (Oct 8, 2006)

Hi i am fairly new to tree work however i have been using a friction knot on a single half inch dynamic line. It works ok but the rope heats up and its kind of a shaky set up i think. I would like to get a device to decend with but i dont want anything that is A) a huge hassle to put in midline while i am up a tree B) Wrong for use in tree work. Also i worry about wearing my rope really quickly is it a good idea to use a pulley hooked to a lanyard around a limb to descend or just use while working in the tree or should i stick to just throwing the rope around a crotch? Would a belay device be a good idea for what i am doing? Thanks


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## hammer0419 (Oct 9, 2006)

Buy a friction saver/false crotch and buy a figure-8.


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## lukesland77 (Oct 9, 2006)

should i buy an aluminum figure 8 or steel, i have a steel carabiner. Also should i get one with the little arms on the side or all rounded sides. Thanks


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## emr (Oct 9, 2006)

you can always use a munter hitch too. it works better with some ropes than others, but all you need is a biner. friction savers work great for working, but they put more friction on your climbing hitch...especially when decending. personally, i use a friction saver whenever possbile and just decend slowly.


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## ASD (Oct 9, 2006)

JUST JUMP :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 10, 2006)

Get a cambium saver and use a prussic loop if you are just starting out, that half hitch thing in your post seamed a bit dodgy


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## beowulf343 (Oct 10, 2006)

Jim1NZ said:


> Get a cambium saver and use a prussic loop if you are just starting out, that half hitch thing in your post seamed a bit dodgy


What half hitch thing are you talking about jim?

Luke, I hope you are not descending srt with a friction hitch-way too dangerous-figure 8 works great. If you are using drt to descend, which friction hitch are you using that causes the problem? 
As to a friction saver, about the only time I use it is if I have to footlock or bodythrust up a tree.


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## jazak (Oct 10, 2006)

I use the rope to and it doesn't bother me. But if you really don't like it get a aluminum figure 8.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 10, 2006)

lukesland77 said:


> friction knot on a single half inch dynamic line.



This is what i was meaning Boe.

Luke, if you dont understand the terms used here just ask. Never use a figure 8 to decend un backed up too!


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## beowulf343 (Oct 10, 2006)

Still not seeing half hitch, thought he was talking about descending a 1/2" line.


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## lukesland77 (Oct 10, 2006)

I am on a half inch line and have been using a tautline hitch to descend. I will get a figure 8 but should i get steel or auminum, i dont want my figure 8 to break  i have a steel carabiner and steel d rings on my saddle.


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## Fumbler (Oct 10, 2006)

You're not going to break an 8.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 11, 2006)

Haha oops my bad! Yep it defiantly says half inch not hitch  sorry.

Go the alloy figure 8, as long as its rated it wont break. Alloy will disperse the heat better and they are a lot lighter. They will wear faster but you will have to be doing a lot of descending.


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## SRT-Tech (Oct 11, 2006)

the alloy Fig 8's are very strong, you will not break one descending.

things to watch for (some already mentioned)

- ropes can twist (some ropes dont, most do)
- dirty ropes WILL wear the aluminum 8's faster
- dangerous if your NOT experienced in using them
- figure 8s can fatigue and develop cracks internally from banging them on rocks or dropping them from height onto hardpan ground.

the manual ON ROPE has an excellent write up on using figure 8s, as does the book "CMC RAPPEL MANUAL". the CMC book is geared towards tactical/law enforcement use, but has a very detailed section on rappelling with figure 8's.

HOWEVER, dont read a blurb in a book and then think your experienced !!! find someone, perhaps at a climbing gym and have them teach you how to rappel safely, first by setting up ON THE GROUND (ropes layed out flat on grass), then once you can rig the setup properly with your eyes closed, move it to a climbing gym where you can practice while being belayed by an instructor. Inexperience is the #1 cause of accidents in rappelling!


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## appalachianarbo (Oct 15, 2006)

A figure 8 with ears would be OK to descend with. With ears, you can lock off and stop your descent without having to keep a hold of the rope. I'd still try to learn the doubled rope technique, as it permits you to ascend and descend without changing your setup. As far as your rope is concerned, maybe a static rope designed for tree work would be better than your dynamic line. It'll hold up better to abrasion when you don't have a friction saver installed, and will stretch less.


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## woodchux (Oct 15, 2006)

I started off using a fig 8 with ears, but found that the ears tended to snag on everything when moving about in the tree. I have since switched to a deaf 8 and am much happier.


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## TreeBarber (Oct 16, 2006)

I know this has been brought up before, but I thought I would interject this. I would advise using some sort of backup while descending using an figure eight. I have the 8 attached to my center ‘D’ via a carabiner and a 10 inch loop of cord. Then below the 8 and attached to my saddle I have a prussic hitch. This is the safety that will lock up if for some reason I loose control of the rope and am no longer able to apply friction to the 8. Also if I need to do hands off the rope work the hitch acts as a third hand and blocks off the rope. The issue of the prussic being above or below the 8 is a point of much discussion, I prefer it below the 8 because the hitch will not bind and is easily released being most of the load is still on the 8, although it is imperative that you insure that the hitch will not get pulled into the 8. While I descend I have my lower hand on top of the hitch sliding it down the rope as I go. If I want to stop I simply let the hitch advance up until it becomes taut and it applies the holding friction to the 8. With the hitch above the 8 and the hitch is taking the load it is hard to release due to all the weight on the hitch and it could be out of reach. I have also used a Blakes hitch in place of the prussic. Just my thoughts.
Pat.


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## lukesland77 (Oct 16, 2006)

Hey i got a figure 8 but im not sure how to use it correctly. I tied my rope onto a door in my house just to try out the 8 and the friction but it seems like i can barely hold myself on the line there is no friction. is there a web site for this or anything? maybe you guys can give me some advice. Thanks!


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## lukesland77 (Oct 16, 2006)

Oh by the way i have a steel carabiner that is really nice i just got it but there is a hole drilled straight through the steel under the gate and it continues to the opposite side and that hole goes about halfway through the spine of the biner. is that normal


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 17, 2006)

TreeBarber said:


> I know this has been brought up before, but I thought I would interject this. I would advise using some sort of backup while descending using an figure eight. I have the 8 attached to my center ‘D’ via a carabiner and a 10 inch loop of cord. Then below the 8 and attached to my saddle I have a prussic hitch. This is the safety that will lock up if for some reason I loose control of the rope and am no longer able to apply friction to the 8. Also if I need to do hands off the rope work the hitch acts as a third hand and blocks off the rope. The issue of the prussic being above or below the 8 is a point of much discussion, I prefer it below the 8 because the hitch will not bind and is easily released being most of the load is still on the 8, although it is imperative that you insure that the hitch will not get pulled into the 8. While I descend I have my lower hand on top of the hitch sliding it down the rope as I go. If I want to stop I simply let the hitch advance up until it becomes taut and it applies the holding friction to the 8. With the hitch above the 8 and the hitch is taking the load it is hard to release due to all the weight on the hitch and it could be out of reach. I have also used a Blakes hitch in place of the prussic. Just my thoughts.
> Pat.




I use a taut-line with a split tail above the 8. I only recently started doing this, and discovered that the knot dosen't overtighten anymore (the loop around the side of the knot tends to roll down and cut in to the wraps, freezing it up). You pull down on the knot, and feed a little rope inthe 8; works smoothly. I'll never go back to just the knot---but if I'm all done, it's a pleasure to drop out of the tree with just the 8, although I suppose one should use a back up prussik loop.


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## TreemanFJR (Oct 19, 2006)

I am with yah there Dave! I have done quite a bit of repelling (trees and more!) with just the piranha. It sure wouldn't hurt to back it up, and I would recommend backing it up to others, but that's how I like it. I have to say too man, it is a breeze locking off the piranha. I have really enjoyed using it.


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 19, 2006)

TreemanFJR said:


> I am with yah there Dave!  I have done quite a bit of repelling (trees and more!) with just the piranha. It sure wouldn't hurt to back it up, and I would recommend backing it up to others, but that's how I like it. I have to say too man, it is a breeze locking off the piranha. I have really enjoyed using it.



My "8" with ears was from Forestry Supply; not sure what it is, but it says USR-840-A on it; it's orange colored, anodized aluminum alloy


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## TreemanFJR (Oct 19, 2006)

Is this the one?








This is some of the info that was with it:

Big "8" Rescue Descender- Anodized Aluminum

Color Anodized

WLL* (lbs.) 900 
kN 40 Tested • Load Rated
9,000 lbs Tensile Strength

Weight (oz./gr) 9.5 oz. (75 gr)


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 20, 2006)

TreemanFJR said:


> Is this the one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thats it. I somehow got a 1/8 in. long nick on it, on the edge of the center hole. Don't tell me I have to throw it away now...


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## TreemanFJR (Oct 20, 2006)

An 1/8'' nick doesnt sound terrible. Is that an 1/8" wide by an 1/8" deep? Maybe take a picture sometime so we can all check it out. But if your backing it up then I cant see why you cant keep using it. You are not anywhere near the working load limit on that.


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 20, 2006)

TreemanFJR said:


> An 1/8'' nick doesnt sound terrible. Is that an 1/8" wide by an 1/8" deep? Maybe take a picture sometime so we can all check it out. But if your backing it up then I cant see why you cant keep using it. You are not anywhere near the working load limit on that.



No, just an 8th in. long. I should file it down, 'cause it's enough to catch your thumb nail, so it's also enough to wear the rope a little (but not as bad as spiking your rope  ). I did catch my Arborplex rope on my spike the other day, not with force behind it, but enough to separate the braid. I checked it out, and couldn't find any damage. I'll probably retire that rope soon, as I've had it for around 2 years, but only used it heavily since last Spring.


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