# Ethics question?



## tree md (Sep 15, 2007)

I just finished a large job caring for an entire condominium complex (56 trees) which was a competitive bid, 2 other companies submitted bids. I saw one of the guys while I was out walking the property and was thinking about calling the guy and telling him I will tell him what I got it for if he tells me what he bid. I know I didn't underbid the job, I'm setting back with a fat check grinning like a jackass with a mouthful of briers today, my biggest sell and job to date. I am just curious as hell what the other guys bid. I really think that I was not the lowest bid. I developed a great rapport with management and residents alike and think that we were all on the same page as to what we wanted to accomplish with the trees, park effect blah, blah, blah all that good stuff. Just wondering how out of line it would be to consult with the other tree guy about pricing. Hope this don't sound like I'm ignorant or anything. Remember, I'm just an old tree hand.


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## sawinredneck (Sep 15, 2007)

If you are happy with what you got for it, why stir the pot?
Sit back and enjoy being fat dumb and happy!! Why risk hurting a potential future resource just to satisfy you're curiousity?


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## tree md (Sep 15, 2007)

Yes, your probably right. I just secured 6 more trees with the client which I'll be doing next week. They have already told me I'm there tree guy. No sense in stirring the pot. The curiosity is killing me though.


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## daveyclimber (Sep 15, 2007)

Once you have further developed your relationship with your client, they most always tell without being asked. How do you know you didn't underbid them? Maybe your attitude was better than the other guys, I secure alot of jobs just by being friendly and educational.


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## daemon2525 (Sep 15, 2007)

Don't tell him anything. Or ask. You won the job, be happy.


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## mckeetree (Sep 16, 2007)

It has been my experience over the years that the other company will tell you something different from what they actually bid to throw you off. There is a local bunch of dumbasses here that are always trying to fake me out with their lying crap when often times I have seen their estimate and know what thieir bid was. We did a large removal the other day for $3,200.00 and the other companies foreman exact words to me were "We done bid dat job for $5,000.00, yea, we done bid dat job for $5,000.00." Well, I saw their bid for "dat" job and it was a hand written mess for $2,000.00.


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## Canyonbc (Sep 17, 2007)

haha...

well whats the old sang...

"to be successful you need to dress successful"

i think how you meet and greet how your bid looks...can make the difference


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## Dadatwins (Sep 17, 2007)

Why don't you ask the customer what the other bids were? The other tree guy might not give you an accurate answer. If it is that important ask the customer what the bids were and why did they give you the job. Tell them you want to make sure you remain competitive with the market and are selling the jobs correctly. Good for you in growing your service.


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## belgian (Sep 17, 2007)

Dadatwins said:


> Why don't you ask the customer what the other bids were? The other tree guy might not give you an accurate answer. If it is that important ask the customer what the bids were and why did they give you the job. Tell them you want to make sure you remain competitive with the market and are selling the jobs correctly. Good for you in growing your service.



excellent post ! 
Understanding the reasons why you won or lost a job will learn you a lot about key decision factors for the customer such as price, lead time, etc. and will make you only stronger in dealing with future customer and jobs. Nothing unethical about that, it's just proof of caring about your business and customer.

A succesfull business man knows the world he lives in !


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## ATH (Sep 21, 2007)

Talking to competitors about pricing could raise concerns of price fixing - and yes, that is an ethical (and potentially legal) concern.

I agree that asking the customer is a good idea. Maybe even come up with a 7-10 quesiton survey that asks other questions about your work. One of the questions can be: "Was my bid the lowest? Do you mind sharing 2 other bids you considered?" The survey could be a good tool for all jobs. I think it will actually make you look more professional rather than inexperienced (you don't want the client to hear "I am new at this, so I need to know what others are bidding so I can stay in the market").


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## tree md (Sep 22, 2007)

ATH, belgian, Dadatwins,

Thanks for the excellent feedback! Yeah, after thinking about it I figured out it would probably be unethical to consult a competitor on the same bid. I have however developed an excellent relationship with My clients on this project. I consulted with them on further work that needed to be done on the complex and treated 4 more trees and removed 4 more eyesores on their property for another two days work this past week. Further more, I recommended a follow up spray treatment for the pines in the Spring as well as a fertilization program for the entire grove. I am trying to provide a quality service for these folks and so far they are pleased. I might ask at some future point if my curiosity has still got me. Right now I am happy with the clientèle.

Thanks for the advise and well wishes guys.


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## 046 (Sep 22, 2007)

congrats on scoring a nice job!


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## johncinco (Nov 2, 2007)

This reminds me of a funny time we had. Bid a job out at George Air Base in CA. It was breaking and removal of a concrete ramp that they drove heavy vehicles up on to work on, to be replaced with a new one. Being local, we had no long transporation costs. Also never having done work for the Guberment, we didnt bid high enough to rip em off! 

When the govt liason got our bid, he was confused as to why we were so low. He sent us everyone elses bids to review! We marked ours up to about $4000 less than the other lowest one, which was about $15,000 more than what we bid. They gave us the job, and your tax dollars were hard at work.


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## Canyonbc (Nov 2, 2007)

Thats awesome..

Have to ask..15 K, seems like a butt load of money...does everyone just bid the govt. really high??? or did you guys purposely go way low...to try and get good with govt?

Other question..would you have made money on your orig. bid???


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Nov 2, 2007)

Bid all jobs at a profit ! In the last 40 yrs. " you're our tree guy " probably 200 times or so ! Next time somebody else is their tree guy ! The point I'am trying to make is " PROFIT " ! If your making one , you're doing fine ! Good luck on all future jobs ~~~


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Nov 2, 2007)

Just a little Tid-bit on the gov't. concrete bid ; I'm just amazed the gov't. liason would send other bids to you , for review , prior to bid closing ! SEALED BIDDING is exactly what it implies. Something called " COLLUSION " occured prior to the actual contract ! Nasty lawsuits could have ensued . If you have any similar incidents , please reply . I looking foward to it.:monkey:


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## Canyonbc (Nov 3, 2007)

I dont have similar stories...but thats awesome. Atleast you walked away with more money then you excepted.


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## l2edneck (Nov 3, 2007)

Reply to post #11



> after thinking about it I figured out it would probably be unethical to consult a competitor on the same bid.



make sure you are measurin apples to apples....

I lose alot of jobs by 100.00 but is because they do half the work...

They leave out 2 or three items that drops bid by 100.00 and* BAM * im beat.


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## johncinco (Nov 9, 2007)

Amazed, yes we were too. Only time anything like that has ever happened, nothing similar before or since. We were making money in the original bid. Sometimes you get the beef, sometimes you get the horn, what can ya say. I wouldnt say collusion, we did not work out how to price the bid with other contractors or rig it. The customer contacted us. I suppose stupidity had a lot to do with it. Maybe he thought we were unaware of what was involved and wanted to make sure we were including everything. Maybe he wondered why everyone else was so high. Maybe everyone got the same packet of bids we got and were asked to rebid. Maybe he was just stupid! We could be lower because we were local, so no transport of men and equipment an hour each way. We also had a place to dispose of several hundred yards of broken concrete, not hauling it an hour away. Either way, they still got the job done at the lowest bidding price. 
We did a lot of work for swimming pool companies, digging the pool and prepping the site. After doing enough for a few different companies we didnt bid any more. They just called and told us where to be. Sent em a bill once a month and they paid in full. Some we made more on, some less. The time and aggravation and wait for competing bids drove the pool sellers nuts. One company came and told us that XX excavating will do such job for $xx,xxx. and are less than you. We told em have them do your jobs from now on. In a month they were back to having us do them, the other companies pricing was all over the board and they charged for every little thing. If we had to take down a fence to get into the back yard, or the wife decided she wanted a side walk kremoved or added or some plants ripped out, we did it and never complained or tacked on more to the bill.


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## STLfirewood (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm an Alderman for the town I live in. We get bids in for city work. (paving grass cutting, storm water work,ect) At first i couldn;t believe the difference in bids. Last job rebuilding a creek the bidsranged anywhere from $150k-105k. With the paving this fall the company that got the big was 28k less then the next lowest bid. I'm talking about a 100K dollar project. The paver gets the bid every year he is always the lowest by at least 25k. He does good work and in a timely manner. 

Last year I bid 4 bradford pear trees at a car dealer. I told then $600 if they moved the cars out of the way. I told them I would do it on a Sunday not to bother customers. I showed up nothing around the trees. dad chipped while I pole saws the branches down. Everything was done in a hour and a half. When I went to get the check the guy told me he was worried about the work before i did it because of my bid. I said what do you mean. He said the next lowest bid was $1350. I don't understand how someone could bid that high. You could back right up to each tree on asphalt. I am always amazed at the differences in bids.

Scott


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## Canyonbc (Nov 12, 2007)

STLfirewood said:


> I'm an Alderman for the town I live in. We get bids in for city work. (paving grass cutting, storm water work,ect) At first i couldn;t believe the difference in bids. Last job rebuilding a creek the bidsranged anywhere from $150k-105k. With the paving this fall the company that got the big was 28k less then the next lowest bid. I'm talking about a 100K dollar project. The paver gets the bid every year he is always the lowest by at least 25k. He does good work and in a timely manner.
> 
> Last year I bid 4 bradford pear trees at a car dealer. I told then $600 if they moved the cars out of the way. I told them I would do it on a Sunday not to bother customers. I showed up nothing around the trees. dad chipped while I pole saws the branches down. Everything was done in a hour and a half. When I went to get the check the guy told me he was worried about the work before i did it because of my bid. I said what do you mean. He said the next lowest bid was $1350. I don't understand how someone could bid that high. You could back right up to each tree on asphalt. I am always amazed at the differences in bids.
> 
> Scott



My only question would be...is you requested and made it clear it seems in your bid that you want the cars out of the way. 600 for 90 minutes of work and 2 men, with chips...seems like fair/good money to me.


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