# Wearing chaps



## jsirbasku (Oct 25, 2002)

After reading another post on PPE, someone had questioned the ability of chaps to actually stop a turning chain. Sidestepping from that a little, my question to my fellow arbos is this. How many of you who actually climb everyday and who also cut on the ground take the time to put on chaps. Do you bend this rule for a couple of quick cuts or do you strongly adhere to the standard of ALWAYS having leg protection on while cutting on the ground. 

If you are not a climber whose activities are aloft and on ground please refrain from responding, it is not cumbersome at all for someone who works and cuts on the ground all day long to simply put chaps on once in the morning and remove them in the evening. But what about someone who works aloft for 1-2 hours then works the ground for 20 minutes then goes aloft agian and so on and so on. I realize that another option is chainsaw pants, but at nearly 100 bucks a pair i cannot see purchasing enough pairs to have a clean (not smelly, or oil stained) pair for everyday of the week.
Writing this brings up another question to mind, what about running a chipper, wouldn't chaps be considered loose fitting clothing which is very likely to get snagged while operating a chipper. If so, which is safer, operating a chipper with chaps on or off? What about when you need to cut that wide crotch that the feed wheels cannot pull in? Would you then stop to put on your chaps to make a cut ( I think not, 9 out of 10 people will bend the rule and simply cut).
I will be totally honest here, I do not wear leg protection at all!!
Or at least not yet, since ANSI standards have been recently revised, I have made honest efforts to comply with the new standards except for this one. I know it is safer to use them, but because of the reasons above, I find this to be the most difficult new standard to comply with. 

No lectures here please about PPE, i am well aware of the requirements. Just want some honest feedback from other climbers.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 25, 2002)

Chaps dont fit, I got some saw pant's made, but they dont fit quite right.

I think I want to try to find some saw bibs I could just step into when I'm bucking and limbing.


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 25, 2002)

Not only have I never worn chaps or saw pants, I've never even seen a pair in real life. I've seen pictures of them. 

The Florida heat would make something that heavy impractical in real life use. If a person were to actually wear chaps here, they would be passed out from heat exhaustion halfway through the day. I've never met anyone here that was willing to even consider chaps. It's hard enough convincing people to wear long pants while using saws.

I can't answer the poll with the chioces provided. I have never worn chaps but do not think chaps are for sissies. If I could wear them without drastically reducing my ability to perform my job, I would. Temps in the 90's and 70% or higher humidity pretty much eliminate anyone getting rich selling chaps in FL.


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## Tim Gardner (Oct 25, 2002)

I have a brand new pair of chaps rolled up right next to my gear. I do not wear them while I am working. Maybe I would if they made chap shorts. I have had my pants nipped three times in my life by a saw and the locations were the same. Just below my front pockets. One by a chain flying off the bar, second while in the back of the dump truck cutting brush down and the third and most scary nip by a groundie that liked to hold the throttle full while spinning around. They still can’t find him.


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## FBerkel (Oct 25, 2002)

Amen on the too hot observation, 165.

I guess there's some chance that I'll hit my leg some day, but it seems more probable that I'll hit my wrist, or face. 

I find it ironic that these pics of Arbormaster types always show them climbing with chaps, but never any more protection for their faces than a pair of safety glasses. And the saw, in these pics, is always pretty close to the face. 

Wouldn't it be more realistic to mandate face protection? Most hardhats can be adapted to hold a retractable mesh screen.


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## coydog (Oct 25, 2002)

i had a wakeup call a couple months back when my groundie nicked his ankle, iwas not requiring chaps. thank God it was minor and thank you to everyone on this forum who gave me flak about it. to be honest i have never seen anyone on any crews i've worked wear them and have only very rarely observed them. i was recently hired by a company in Oregon and will be moving there soon. They told me they require chaps on the ground, they also include aerial rescue as part of their training and will pay for any continuing education related to arboriculture, as well as isa certification.


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## herschel (Oct 26, 2002)

Well, I do wear my chaps for all chain saw work and on cool days, I wear my chain saw pants. 

I've had 2 chains jump off of my big saws and hit me in the crotch. (My crotch, not a tree crotch.) I had chaps on both times and I still get chills imaging the mess I might have been in. 

Would you pay $100 to prevent a chain going 1000+ rpm chewing up your testes?

That's money well spent.

It's a minor inconvience to put them on, if you think about the alternative.

But doesn't everyone think that it will never happen to them?


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## Acer (Oct 26, 2002)

We're supposed to wear chainsaw trousers whenever we operate a chainsaw - design A front of leg protection only for ground workers, design C all round leg protection for climbers. I always wear design C trousers if I'm using the saw. If I know I'm doinfg only light pruning, using a Silky and no chainsaw, I won't bother.. Most people do here, even the cowboys! I know we don't get the heat here, but I still struggle in the Summer. I start sweating the minute I put them on. The pair I've got at the minute, Husqvarna's, are especially bad - can't wait for them to wear out.

I might get chaps next time, because you can put them on and off quickly as required. Some jobs, I only need the saw for an hour or 2. Also, my chainsaw trousers always wear out just above the protection, at the back or at the crotch. They start to rip, and sewing them up does no good because they rip again a little higher. The non protected material simply isn't strong ebnough for the weight of the protective layers. Chaps wouldn't have that problem.


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## Stumper (Oct 26, 2002)

I'm with 165 on the heat factor. I like chaps when it's cold- saves some pain fron getting smacked with twigs etc. I used to climb in chaps quite a bit when I was removing a lot of pines(saved me britches ). My most frequent warm weather use of chaps has been while stump grinding. Frankly I haven't worn mine in several months-they got oil soaked and the weather got hot so they've been languishing in the tool box.


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## Jumper (Oct 26, 2002)

*Pants*

We had a couple of days here last summer where the humidex hit 115 F and I thought I was going to die with my chain saw pants on, in fact after day one I wore a bathing suit as gotch and peeled my pants off at lunch and break to cool down-one day at the beach closeby. A lto of climbers here do wear chainsaw pants while climbing-most companies give you very little choice in the matter because of the OSH regs.


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## xander9727 (Oct 26, 2002)

It all comes down to relative comfort. Would you rather sweat on the job or be comfortable in a hopital bed with a pca pump. I'm a climber and if I'm running a chainsaw I wear chaps. In the summer its hot and I sweat alot more because of them. So I wear a camel bak with ice water in it to compensate. 165, if I can survive the desert in full military gear then I know you can survive florida in chaps. The transition would be the hardest part. Once you set your mind to the fact that you wear chaps you'll be suprised how fast your body will adjust. I know there are people who have gone from the cradle to the grave with chain saws and never received as much as a nick. However, I feel they are the the exception and truly blessed. The facts are the more you use a saw the greater your chances are of an accidental contact injury. It may only take a bandaid or a few stiches to fix but even those would be better avoided. For me it is the possibility of loosing a limb that motivates me to wear chaps. I want to be able to play with my children and live a normal life as would anyone else. I have had several brushes with death that have made me appreciate life in a whole new way. With 5 broken vertebrae, a fused wrist and a hip and knee that need to be replaced I really want to minimize the risk at this point in my life. Don't even bring up the "why do you climb trees"? I get enough of that from the Mrs. At least it's safer than my last job and I didn't take the crab fishing job in Alaska either. I'm not trying to be preachy I am just giving my opinion with the reasoning behind it. 
My 2 cents.


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## Stumper (Oct 27, 2002)

No argument with your choice Xander. I appreciate the way you closed your post " I'm not trying to be preachy I am just giving my opinion with the reasoning behind it. 
My 2 cents."
The issue is complicated. If a person wears all of the recommended safety gear it MAY create a dangerous condition. It is extremely difficult to stay hydrated in hot ,humid conditions. If partial dehydration caused by safety gear results in impaired judgement is it safer? That sounds like an excuse to dump everything safety related-something I oppose. I do think that some latitude is needed for each individual to make an INFORMED judgement call. The best safety gear is good judgement. - My 2 cents.


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## mowdenver (Oct 27, 2002)

I don't wear them because I don't own a pair- wouldn't say or think you're a sissy for using them


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## underwor (Oct 27, 2002)

Do chaps really stop a saw? YES!!! One of the few times I remembered to put mine on, outside of class, I was cutting off a stump, holding the O30 Stihl left handed, instead of right as designed, 18" bar with carbide chain, saw kicked out hit my Husky Chaps that I received during Arbormaster training for instructors in Charlotte. Distance from stump to upper thigh about 10". It went through 2 of the 5 layers of nylon and locked up solid. Took about 1/2 hour to untangle. By then I had stopped shaking. Wish I could say I learned something and wear chaps at all times, but I am old and set in my ways. I did not get a new scar to match the one on the underside of forearm, received holding a Mac 6 one handed leaning over a fence cutting lilac branch.

If you see me cutting without chaps, chew me out as my students do, please. 

Bob


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## TREETX (Oct 27, 2002)

I will use them any time temperatures here are cool enough to permit use.

Nice to see all of the people saying they can handle the heat live in Canada, N. Dakota, Ohio, or Wisconsin. By the comments, you have no clue - none. No idea of what it is like to work when it is already 90F by 8:30 am. No, we don't wear chaps, we use good judgement. There are more arborists in Austin than any other city in Texas and I have never seen anyone wearing chaps. Never even heard of it. That includes Asphlunde and Davey. Here the actual temperature can get up to 112. 

When working in a northen climate in the snow, yes I wear chaps or pants - they are warm and coozy.

Arboriculture is like forestry in the way that there is no room for blanket prescriptions. In some situations, chaps would just be more dangerous - that is a fact.

No matter how strong you are and how much you drink, you can't beat heat exhaustion if you are bustin a$$ working in thick, bulky gear. That includes you desert cammandos. 

Instead of arguing wear or not, how about some one making thinner, more breatheable safety pants. 

Not being preachy, just stating the way things are.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 27, 2002)

Sure it's hot Tex, but it's a dry heat. Everyone knows it's the not the heat, it's the humidity.

What I do when it's hot, is to wear chaps, but nothing else.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 27, 2002)

I don't snow up here all the time. We get several weeks of high 90's with humidity near saturation. By the time we aclimate the temps get down to a more bareable level.

I won't berate a person for not wearing them in the heat, cuz I've been known to work sans helmet when it gets near 100*. I figure doing simple pruning with a handsaw im more likely to have heat stroke then struck by.

Hot is hot is hot, I weigh my risks and act acordingly. 

I worked without glasses once, and have regretted it ever since.


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## TREETX (Oct 28, 2002)

I tried that too Mike but lonely house wives sticking ones and fives in my belt got to be a hazard.

Don't mean to jump up and down about chaps but I hate this attitude that English policies make the world England.

Every situation is different, why have a blanket policy just so people have a good excuse not to use proper judgement?:angel:

If bulk and not temp is the question, have you tried the overalls? I have climbed and moved a bunch of brush wearing them. Of course it was snowing.


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## xander9727 (Oct 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TREETX _
> *
> 
> "Nice to see all of the people saying they can handle the heat live in Canada, N. Dakota, Ohio, or Wisconsin. By the comments, you have no clue - none." *
> ...



Your "Preaching" to the choir! Chaps are a breathable alternative to pants.


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## TREETX (Oct 28, 2002)

Lets see for starters, how about the situation where you die from heat exhaustion.

According to your seatbelt analogy, you wear chaps because you are afraid of other chainsaw users? If you say no, do us a favor and don't drive if you lack that much confidence in yourself.

I see you want to argue, this is not the place

I said by your comments you have no clue, none. I didn't say I knew what everyone does/does not know. I think your last comments just pushed my point on home - you have NO CLUE!!

You know it all if that is what you want to hear. I hope you feel better and sleep well.

Bring yer chaps and pants down here and work for a day. You would not make it. That is a promise.

I really get sick of you know-it-alls. Give yer opinion but respect others.


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## Froggy (Oct 28, 2002)

*Chaps*

Chaps are good for what they're intended for. I used them when I first started. I guess if they made a pair practical to use in a tree I'd probably use them. My boss gave me a pair of pants, but haven't used them yet. They're a little warm. When it gets a little bit colder I might try them for a day. If they seem practical I'll probably use them. Other problem with the pants is the price. If we're supose to use them day in and day out. They need to bring them down a few dollars so we can have a couple of pairs. other wise I'll just stick to my arborwear pants.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 28, 2002)

*Chaps*

I have two brand new pair from Peltor, given to me by Aearo Safety for field-testing. I am sort of ashamed of the fact that I've never even given them a try. Heat has a lot to do with it, but basic laziness toward putting them on is my only real legitimate excuse. I have touched myself with the saw three times in the last 9 years, one resulting in a hospital visit. Two of the three were in-tree accidents. All, I must believe, would not have happened if I were wearing chaps. All, I must also believe, would not have happened had I been focussed on what I should have been paying attention to at the time. The fact remains, it only takes once.
I wear Husqvarna chainsaw pants in the Winter because they're warm and comfy, and they look more professional than the black jeans I'm accustomed to wearing.
I'm going to wear the chaps in the coming days so I can report on their use with at least SOME authority. Besides, the weather's cooler now and I have less excuse.


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## treeguy347 (Oct 28, 2002)

*converted wearer*

After a brief encounter eith my 357xp that cost me 24 stitches in the side of my knee, I went out and bought myself a pair. They go on along with my safety glasses and earmuffs (the neat "Worktunes" 'muffs by AOSafety that have an AM/FM radio built in - makes the day go by faster). The way I figure it, the three most important pieces of PPE are eye/ear protection, and chaps. Being from Michigan, I don't get the heat near as much as you guys down south. However, I have worked a good amount near Memphis also. The whole trick is keeping hydrated. As ong as you keep fluids coming in, one can make it through a hot day just fine, chaps and all.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 28, 2002)

*If you can't handle the heat, move north until you can.*

Nate, you are stating your opinion, not facts, when you say it is too hot, that we have no idea, that chaps are more dangerous, that one can't stay hydrated, or that seatbelts are only for accidents for which you aren't responsible. Please be open to the occassional possibility that someone else may know something you don't.

Also....most chainsaw accidents occur below the waist, hence the chaps regulations. Honestly, chainsaw pants make me feel a small amount warmer but not enough to forgo insulation in the winter. I can't even tell when I'm wearing chaps. Plus, if someone hasn't used them, how can they tell they would be hot?

Nickrosis


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## TREETX (Oct 29, 2002)

Nick thanks for yer 2 cents but read a little before replying and tugging on my ear. When did I say I haven't used them? I wore them daily for almost a year. Many of those days were 85+/- 3degrees. That was working in Austria and Germany.

In Texas, it is too hot. Getting to where I could use them now. The high here is only 80 today. The other 9 months, it is hot. I know it is hard to imagine but at a certain point, reguardless of hydration, the body can overheat. I personally don't have a problem there but I have my secrets. Dress super light in cotton, and yes, drink a gallon of water by 9 if you are going to be humpin it.

Nick- thanks fer yer OPINION

ps - seriously!!! -- currently seeking job in cooler climate


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 29, 2002)

Plenty of jobs up here Nate!


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## TREETX (Oct 29, 2002)

Looking across the pond again 

Will quit being chatty


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## DDM (Oct 29, 2002)

Seems like a good buy on these 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2063910588


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## Nickrosis (Oct 29, 2002)

Nate, the second paragraph was aimed towards everyone, I knew you had worn chaps. My goal in commenting is to help others be safe, that's all.

Nickrosis


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## TREETX (Oct 29, 2002)

I think they should be worn just the same as seatbelts. Comfort should not be the decisive factor. Extreme heat is different.

Sorry if I was crabby Nick - XANDER's attitude got me a bit po-ed.


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 29, 2002)

It has been stated here and elsewhere that our BRAIN is our best safety device. It is also a proven fact that extreme heat can and will affect the brain to the point of not functioning properly or as quickly as normal. With the heat in my area, I believe it is typically more dangerous overall to wear chaps/ chainsaw pants than not. A typical person wearing chaps in FL and trying to work in the heat all day will be much more likely to injure himself by some means than the person dressed intelligently. 

It's a judgement call in my mind. IF I wear chaps I may protect my legs from that once-in-a-lifetime saw injury, but I would be much more likely to injure myself in some manner because of decreased mental capacity due to overheating. Each person/situation is different and a blanket rule would be counter productive.


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## TREETX (Oct 29, 2002)

Amen to that 165!


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## che (Oct 29, 2002)

I won't 'vote', but I hope you don't mind if a 'non-pro' asks a question. I've never seen chainsaw pants but have been enjoying the above discussions. I looked at the eBay link and they look just like the coveralls I wear in the winter when I'm feeding cattle and cutting wood....except in 'overall' style.

Do they 'move' at all? Do they weigh alot? Are they an article of clothing that you can actually work in or is climbing in/out of a tractor or truck something that isn't pleasant with them on? I'm short (5'1")....can they be cut/sewn if you need to shorten them?

I don't do the amount or type of chainsaw work that you all do (just enough to keep the fires burning at home) but I can't imagine it would be a bad idea.

Che


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## Jumper (Oct 29, 2002)

*Chain Saw Pants*

The chainsaw pants I have are not bibs but are more like jeans and to tell the truth I have gotten used to wearing them and they feel like jeans, espcially the lighter weight ones. in winter all I do is thrown a pair of Carhardts on top. I think they could be shortened, though you would need quite an industrial strength sewing maching to get thru the 7 layers of padding on the leg bottom. 

I am only 5'6" on a good day, and never have bothered to have them shortened.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 29, 2002)

165, I couldn't have said it better. Tree work is about keeping you wits about you and not making mistakes. Good judgement, concentration, keepingyer problem solver in the ON position at all times. Heat and dehydration dimpair jusdgement. Wearing a helmet like you should in the tree is going to up yiur heat index, too, and you have to decide yourself whether that measure of 'ideal safety' makes your job less safe. You d' guy with the saw. You are the person responsible for everything, all mistakes and misjudgements. 'Do what you feel is safest' is my take on whether or not to wear chaps (and trust me, I AM a safety freak).


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 29, 2002)

*Helmets*

I don't want to take this too far off topic, but wanted to quickly say that the newer climbing helmets are very light and the ventilated ones do not make you considerably hotter. 

When I worked for Davey Tree I was required to wear a company hardhat whenever I was on a job. This included when climbing. It was hot, bulky, had no ventilation, and no chin strap. Completely worthless in a tree, but *blanket rules * had been put in place to protect the idiots from themselves. Mine managed to 'fall off' within a few minutes of my ascent into a tree almost every day. Despite my poor experience with required head protection, I purchased my first climbing helmet earlier this year. I've worn it every day when climbing since and would not climb without it now. If Davey had issued a USEABLE piece of safety equipment, I would have worn it gladly. 

I feel the same about chaps or chainsaw pants. 7 layers of ANYTHING is not feasable in my temp. zone. If I found a pair of saw pants that I could wear without increasing my risk of accidents, I would wear them.


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## xander9727 (Oct 29, 2002)

I am reading some of these posts and shaking my head. 
First of all, Nate, I have worked in Texas, in July, in chaps. As you can see, I did make it and still am alive. You have alot more potential for losing heat through you head than your legs. Maybe you should forgo the helmet as well. You could put on a speedo and a halter top and ensure you kept your wits about you. Just an idea. 

Additionally, I wear chaps while climbing every time. Except for the occasional twig that snags I haven't ever notice them limiting my mobility or being detrimantal in any way. If you don't want to do something you can always find an excuse not to do it. 
Lets pretend for a minute the Government mandated wearing chaps while operating a chainsaw. Would you be out of work or hand saw everything? I doubt it, you'd probably be unhappy and wear chaps. If everyone decides to never wear chaps again its no skin off my back. I just don't agree with your reasoning for not wearing them. I know firsthand that it is possible to wear chaps while climbing and still perform in 100+ degree weather. If you don't feel you can do it I'll accept that. Just please don't pretend your own personal limits are everyone elses limits.


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## treeguy347 (Oct 29, 2002)

*husky chaps*

I'm not trying to advertise for Husqvarna, but I find their chaps are very comfortable in just about all conditions. I have had a few minor twig snags, but that happens to me more on my bootlaces  The straps are easily adjusted to fit over whatever clothing you might have on depending on the weather.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 30, 2002)

*My Personal Research*

I did a study today comparing the heat factor of chaps versus chainsaw pants. Chaps are defined as protective equipment that is worn over your pants and snapped behind the legs and at the waist. Chainsaw pants are a full pair of pants with built-in protection. In other words, as a male, you can legally wear only chainsaw pants in public. You may receive a citation for wearing only chaps.

Today's weather was no more than 40 degrees, and during light work, my legs were sweating with chainsaw pants on. My upper body was shivering with 2 t-shirts on. Conclusion: Chainsaw pants are really warm!

Comparing to chaps.....in similar weather conditions, I found wearing chaps to be marginally insulating. The most insulating component was the sawyer's helmet and the chainsaw booties I was wearing. Conclusion: Chaps have a very small insulating factor and should not be considered when talking about heat.

My feeling is that if heat is an issue, wear chaps! You will hardly notice them from the temperature perspective. If you're cold, put on a pair of chainsaw pants. For now, though, we need to distinguish chainsaw pants from chaps. If you can live the South, you can wear chaps.

Nickrosis


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 30, 2002)

It was 91 here yesterday, October 29! I certainly appreciate the 'heat' research you did Nick. I'll keep it in mind when it gets down to 40* here.


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## trees4life (Oct 30, 2002)

Che

Chainsaw pants or overalls are available. Many people prefer the overalls to allow air circulation around the waist, a comfort thing. The ballistic does add some weight. The manufacturer routinely adds the ballistic pads to the front of the pants. We also get pads added to the back of the lower leg. Costs a little more ($15 CAN) , but added protection.

You should never sew throught the ballistic material. Doing so can affect the way the nylon will pull, and it may not pull properly to jam the chain if you made contact. To be safe, you may have to supply your measurements and have them made to order. Ask the supplier or manufacturer.

I have not found a pair of pants that feel comfortable. The cut of the pants are designed for men. They may have them for women, but I haven't found them. Another comfort issue, and why I prefer overalls.


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## che (Oct 30, 2002)

Thanks, trees4life With your warning/description in mind, whatever seam they put on, if a needle could go through, I'm sure I could match the design...possibly they're just sealed.....BUT....I lost out on the auction in the last 20 seconds so I'll put my thimble away. I will keep my eye open though. 

The 'fit' was the reason these overalls caught my attention. It seems sturdy protective or work wear for women is not readily availbable. Normally you can get 'sturdy' or you can get 'fit/fashion'....it's difficult to get both, much of the work wear for females that I've found is made of a lessor, lighter grade of materials...so I've quit looking. Overalls tend to be forgiving of gender. 


Che


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## CityUF (Oct 30, 2002)

*Chaps should not be optional*

OK guys... I'm new here but this one should not be discussed. If you don't use chaps... you can get seriously hurt. 

I know all about heat and/or humidity... SW Arkansas for 2 years in forestry and fire fighting... 2 years with USFS fire crew in New Mexico. You think it's bad when it's 90 and 70% humidity? Try those heat levels and a forest fire around you for as far as you can see? Chaps were put on and not taken off... why?... because heat and physical exertion lead to shortcuts, reduced attention, and eventually mistakes. In the USFS, firelines are built by 2 guys with saws cutting a fireline ahead of 18 guys trying to catch up by digging a fireline. Heat, elevation, and hiking miles carrying all your equipment and fuel and oil definitely leads to tired workers before work ever starts.
Now I cut trees in parks and roadsides in tennessee and we had 28 days of heat index over 105 in a row... It's still way easier then all my previous saw experience.


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## Stumper (Oct 30, 2002)

CityUF, WELCOME! We discuss a lot of safety stuff here-and disagree about a lot of it. Fundamentally there are 2 outlooks on safety equipment and procedures: 
1. ANSI says, I say, Uncle Harry said, It came to me in a dream, an alien told me, etc, that this is safe so everyone should do it MY way. 
2. Everyone has the right and obligation to make informed decisions about safety issues. 
If, as a lover of freedom and believer in personal responsibility, you choose #2 as your outlook then these discussions have value. Part of the discussion always comes down to a disagreement about the 2 philosophies but for those of us who have the 2nd viewpooint that is a okay.


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## CityUF (Oct 30, 2002)

Hey there,
Sorry if I came across poorly... but... I'm one of those people who feels very strongly about safety. 

For example: I put on chaps, safety glasses and ear protection before I even warm up the saw.

I can still cut faster than my 2 guys pulling it away so I don't sacrifce production for safety.

Anyway... I keep it cool


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## CityUF (Oct 30, 2002)

I cut myself off on that last one...

I'll keep it cool here is what I meant to say.

Enjoying all the info found here


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## Stumper (Oct 30, 2002)

CityUF, I hope I wasn't coming across as upset about your comments. I just wanted to give my perspective on the value of the discussion. We're cool and again I say welcome.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by treeclimber165 _
> *It was 91 here yesterday, October 29! I certainly appreciate the 'heat' research you did Nick. I'll keep it in mind when it gets down to 40* here. *



Yeah, let us all know when it approaches freezing. That's usually pretty noteworthy.

I think CityUF and I are going to get along great! I LOVE the point that mistakes happen when we're hot and tired - which is a great reason for wearing safety protection. 

I see the argument that you might screw up while wearing chaps that could cause an accident your chaps can't protect you from. But remember, you're not in the tree with chaps, you're on the ground. You can take a break any time you need to - sit under a tree for 10 minutes, hop in the cab and blow some air on yourself, whatever cools you down. You don't have the option in a tree, but you don't have to wear chaps while climbing in the US, so it's a moot point.

I agree with CityUF about chaps. You can't afford to not wear them. And I don't want to hear from just Tex and Brian - what about the other Northerners who don't always wear chaps?

Nickrosis

PS...I had a one-line answer, but I didn't want it to get deleted.


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## TREETX (Nov 1, 2002)

Talked to a guy yester day that managed to cut his femoral artery with a the new 440. Helicopter ride, surgery, etc. The new saw just had more power than his old 044. I ran a 440 yesterday and it seemed to have a lot more kickback/power than my 044. maybe it is just newer. I can see the importance of chaps. In a cooler climate or on cool days like today in TX, why would you not wear them.

I don't understand why motorcycle guys don't wear helmets - maybe it is the same thing??


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## Greg (Nov 1, 2002)

I don't wear chaps....yet. That is an item that i have been wanting to buy but have just not done so yet. I don't see myself climbing with them, but will wear them on the ground.. when I get them....
Watch,this weekend I'll nick myself and be sitting in the ER saying I was gonna spend the $50 but I just didn't get around to it. Reminds me of what my grandmother used to say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". 
I met a climber a few weeks ago who was showing me all of his scars from 20yrs climbing. He spiked himself about 3 times in varous spots on his legs, and has had stiches about 8 times from chainsaw mishaps. I met this guy at the saw shop and after telling me how he would climb for me if I ever need him, he starts showing me proof of his 20 yrs experience, scars.... Yeah, I want this guy working with me.....
Greg


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## xander9727 (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Greg _
> *
> I met a climber a few weeks ago who was showing me all of his scars from 20yrs climbing......after telling me how he would climb for me if I ever need him, he starts showing me proof of his 20 yrs experience, scars.... Yeah, I want this guy working with me.....
> Greg *



I hope you have time and patience! Sounds like you may have found a slow learner.

Just remember......It's easy to be hard.........It's hard to be smart!

My 2 cents......Again!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 1, 2002)

I worked with a few guys like that, one with 20, one with five. The guy with five years had 3 seriouse saw accidents. That an many saw nicks in his boots.

I tried to pass on some wisdom, brought onto some other jobs. He refused to listen, got testy. He mouthed off after we asked him twice to not smoke while filling saws. lost track of him.

The guy with 20 years was caught doing side jobs on sick time with company equipment.....


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## FBerkel (Nov 1, 2002)

Guys who don't wear a motorcycle helmet simply value other organs more than their brains, and therefore don't see the need to wear one. As for chain saw chaps, they don't protect the highest valued organ anyway, so they don't wear them either, but for a different reason.


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## Todd K. (Nov 2, 2002)

This is a really good thread. I'm a manager and trainer. All of our men wear chaps on the ground { standard operating procedure}. Their problem is not that they find them combersum they just forget or do not want to walk to the truck. As far as climbing only a couple guys wear them during removals including myself. We wear pants, the buckles are a problem when climbing. Must of the debate has been about heat. I sweat like a pig and heat effects does effect me. But I need to set an example so I prepare. Once the temps. reach upper 80's with high humidity I sweat bad. I'm so hot already the pants do'nt seem to make a difference. But beeing in good shape seems to help. I work hard but I also play hard so I can deal with the heat. I'm pro chaps on the ground. As far as climbing I like em. But I do not make our guys wear'em while climbing. I do encourage them to.


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 16, 2002)

*Chaps vs Leggings*

I have never worn the so called chap. I use the Stihl leggings. They are like two pant legs with ballistic material. You just slide each one over your pants, then it goes over your belt and has a velcro pad. I like them because there are no strings or anything in the way. But they have no crotch protection. Have any of you other guys worn them, and if so do you like them?


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## Matt Follett (Nov 17, 2002)

*Always Always Always*

The first thing I do in the morning is put on my Chainsaw Pants (well not the first, but you get the picture)

I don't let anyone on the crew start a saw without protection, in the tree or on the ground. HH, eye, ear, pant/chaps, and decent boots! I could care less about gloves, but I recommend them on the big saws.

Not only is it the Law, but these things were engineered to reduce the likelyhood of injury in our field. They were not concured up by some Authority tryng to make our life difficult. We might see a decline in our insurance rates if everyone always wore their PPE, and the "fermoral artery' symdrome decreased

As for the heat, well you get accustomed to it, drink lots of water, take'em off at break, etc. As for the comment about Northern Clime's wearing them, It easily hits +35C here, plus humdity in the Niagara region, But we still wear them.

I don't like climbers wearing chaps because I fear it's more to get caught, and I don't like chapped workers feeding the chipper, same reason. Everyone gets issued pants (I figure that's cheaper then the insurance hike if someone cuts up a leg) , but we keep chaps around just incase.

My two cents


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## gregorylnd (Nov 18, 2002)

No one in our city crew even knew what chaps were untill I complained to our city manager that they were not available to us to use. Boy did that piss off my boss, the superintendant. He was told to get some immediatly. Because the other guys were trained by him, they don't want to wear them. Same old lame "too hot", "uncomfortable" excuses. It is the law. If we want respect, do it right and obey the law. I've worn em on 90 plus days and yeah, they get hot. That is what breaks are for. My boss now has me do the toughest take downs and the finest detail jobs. No one ever stood up to him about what is right. If you care about legs ( mine are kinda nice ) then protect them.


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 18, 2002)

Have any of you guys worn the leggings and what do you think of them?

Denim Protective Leggings Wash and Wear
Feature pads with 6 or 9 layers of Engtex® sewn-in, cut-retardant material. Velcro belt fasteners and zippered leg openings offer extra comfort and convenience. Full cut for ease of movement. 65/35 poly/cotton blen


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## trees4life (Nov 19, 2002)

I've never seen the leggings before. Does anyone know of a Canadian distributor?


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## TheMDTreeman (Nov 19, 2002)

trees for life,

They are made by Stihl...so just ask a Stihl distributor if you have one there


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## buckbandit (May 19, 2008)

Here north of 49th WCB requires we wear saw pants or chaps and both must fully wrap around your lower leg. My preferance, chaps 100% of the time. During colder temps I can adjust them to fit under more layers of clothing. In the summer months when belive it or not temps can reach mid 30 degrees c I still wear um and during breaks they are off in 2 shakes of a poplar branch and back on in just a little longer. I wear them when I'm climbing too, not so much for protection from the saw, but for those small sharp stubs. The company I work wants all ground workers to wear leg protection and I think that's a good thing but I don't push it hard. I can empithise with the guys down south dealing with the heat. Plus when I was running hydo-axe if I had to cut for a minute or 2 I didn't dig my chaps out of the truck.:deadhorse:


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## treemandan (May 19, 2008)

TREETX said:


> I will use them any time temperatures here are cool enough to permit use.
> 
> Nice to see all of the people saying they can handle the heat live in Canada, N. Dakota, Ohio, or Wisconsin. By the comments, you have no clue - none. No idea of what it is like to work when it is already 90F by 8:30 am. No, we don't wear chaps, we use good judgement. There are more arborists in Austin than any other city in Texas and I have never seen anyone wearing chaps. Never even heard of it. That includes Asphlunde and Davey. Here the actual temperature can get up to 112.
> 
> ...



I noticed that it said 'banned' below your name. why? I kind of like it.


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## KiwiTreeSteve (May 20, 2008)

herschel said:


> Would you pay $100 to prevent a chain going 1000+ rpm chewing up your testes?
> 
> That's money well spent.




nice point!!


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## thebiggreenone (May 20, 2008)

I put on my full-length with ankle wraps on in the morning when I get out of the truck, and don't take them off until lunch time, then they go back on until we are heading back to the yard to unload for the day. This includes all ground work and all tree climbing. 

I think it is only smart to wear them. I've never found them to be such a hindrance as many people claim, except for the heat. In that case maybe I'd put on my 3/4 lengths and sweat it out. 

Its like wearing a seatbelt, it is such a cheap, easy way to protect your life and limb (literally) I think it is simply foolish not to. I also don't feel too bad when someone hurts them self when it could have so easily been avoided.


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## KiwiTreeSteve (May 20, 2008)

i always wear my summer weight chainsaw pants, 7 layer thick balistic material on the front, and a nylon type material around the back it is very breathable and quite cool, however the temp here is raely over 30o C.


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## costello (May 21, 2008)

*stump grinding always wear*

never have i wore chaps for climbing or felling or ?. many pine seasons i used (2) pairs of pants to climb. for stump grinding you should always consider a stone hitting a vein, i, have a couple of stories, old timers showed the impact caused damage, i don't have chaps now, but if grinding, i would wear them, i did. Chaps are good. You have to slow just a bit to wear them, and that might be there saving grace.


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## clearance (May 21, 2008)

This is like so 2002, really now people.


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## fireman (May 23, 2008)

My guys have to wear there chaps .especia;y in heat.the guys get tired easier and weaker which spells disaster.im talking from experience.YES CHAPS STOP THE BLADES.I will try to post pics of a couple pair of chaps we use.they also have to wear steel toes I will try to post pics of some boots that the steel toes stopped. this all happened when it was 85 degrees or higher do what you want but be careful.


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## treemandan (May 23, 2008)

clearance said:


> This is like so 2002, really now people.



I like a guy in chaps and hopefully he has a motorcycle. this is not so 2002 honey, this is so very now! What's your sign?


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## treemandan (May 23, 2008)

fireman said:


> My guys have to wear there chaps .especia;y in heat.the guys get tired easier and weaker which spells disaster.im talking from experience.YES CHAPS STOP THE BLADES.I will try to post pics of a couple pair of chaps we use.they also have to wear steel toes I will try to post pics of some boots that the steel toes stopped. this all happened when it was 85 degrees or higher do what you want but be careful.



with a tag line like yours I wouldn't show up in anything less than chain mail.
You have to watch the heat. I don't use them but I have a pair for "my" guy. An chainsaw in somebodies hand other than mine is dangerous.


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## treemandan (May 23, 2008)

CityUF said:


> Hey there,
> Sorry if I came across poorly... but... I'm one of those people who feels very strongly about safety.
> 
> For example: I put on chaps, safety glasses and ear protection before I even warm up the saw.
> ...



hello, Mr saftey? I am Mr. danger. yeah good chance I might get killed, watch out.


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## treemandan (May 23, 2008)

> 165, you made a great point, Although chaps are important safety item, there are situations as you have described when wearing them you are actually doing yourself a disservice.
> 
> I dont want to be up a tree miserable, possible making a mental mistake, because I am thinking about how uncomfortable I feel.
> 
> ...



you and me share the same philosophy. Go up there in comfort and style. I have a Camelback filled with Pina' Coloda. Want some?


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## Spider (May 25, 2008)

I make it a habit that anytime I use a saw on the ground I put my chaps on, whether I'm at work or working for myself. When it comes to PPE, there is no excuse for me not to be safe the company I work for provides anything we could possibly need or want. As far as the heat goes chaps = sweatpants


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## Burvol (May 25, 2008)

Labonville is the only way to go


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## jtrent (May 25, 2008)

After 30 years of climbing, I have learned that I am not "bulletproof". As a young fellow I used to think that accidents happened to other folks who probably were not paying attention. Well, they say that there are two kinds of computer users: the kind who have lost their data and the kind who will lose their data. It seems to me that the same applies to accidents. If you work in this field long enough you will be involved in an accident. Hopefully, it will be minor and you will recover quickly. We all have to determine how we are going to run our business and protect ourselves and our employees. My advice is to give every type of PPE a fair evaluation and then make it a habit to use just as much of it as you possibly can as often as you can.


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## lxt (May 26, 2008)

I use to wear chaps on occassion....not all the time!! If I was using the saw for any length of time I`d wear em, Not when cutting a limb at the chipper though!!

I posted elsewhere about an incident that happened to me....about 3-4yrs ago, I was cutting down a tree & at about waist height I made my cut(s) cause the homeowner wanted them left so the excavator could get em out, NOT telling me this tree had a steel post in it when planted (used for bracing) I made the notch.......then the back cut......well I use one arm to feel & give the tree that little extra push.....Goose the saw one more time the nose hits the rod, saw does a helicopter style move & catches me right across the stomach......perferated the skin from one side to the other right across the belly button!!

Chaps would of done no good!! HOWEVER, I took this as a wakeup call & now I wear em!! that cut could of been real bad!! but was the nicest saw cut you could want( the experience was scarier), BE SAFE & make it home to see those who love you.....Somebody loves you!! Take Care!


LXT................


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## treemandan (May 26, 2008)

lxt said:


> I use to wear chaps on occassion....not all the time!! If I was using the saw for any length of time I`d wear em, Not when cutting a limb at the chipper though!!
> 
> I posted elsewhere about an incident that happened to me....about 3-4yrs ago, I was cutting down a tree & at about waist height I made my cut(s) cause the homeowner wanted them left so the excavator could get em out, NOT telling me this tree had a steel post in it when planted (used for bracing) I made the notch.......then the back cut......well I use one arm to feel & give the tree that little extra push.....Goose the saw one more time the nose hits the rod, saw does a helicopter style move & catches me right across the stomach......perferated the skin from one side to the other right across the belly button!!
> 
> ...



Let them make fun of me for being a happy brake slapping fool. I have seen many guys cut like you described, alot of times with success. I have found that it sets off my " danger happening" sense whether there is a chance of metal or not. It is something I never felt comfortable doing.
I hate it worse when someone comes over and tries to push it while I make a backcut, very stupid move. When i see people do it I think of a comic routine that has a good chance of going really bad. I have often been asked" Hey, give this a push, will ya?" the answer is always "NO."
I WILL stand ready while someone dices up some smaller trees from the ground and then catch them while they fall to run them out over the flowers and potted plants right to the chipper. 
I think the text book term for this is called 'receiveing' and is carried out by a 'receiver'.
I never have come close to cutting my legs with a saw and the times when kickback occured I was ready. I have cut other parts with the little climbers.


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## geocom (Jun 2, 2008)

*All the time*

I'm just a homeowner not an expert like many here but it seems like for somewhere around a hundred dollars for chaps and a helmet is pretty cheap when compared to life and limb I haven't always used them I used them when I was training as a forestry tech(never did a thing with that) but didn't use them for years after however I use them all the time now sure sometimes it sucks cause they definitely don't help you stay cool but for the added measure of protection I am all for it


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## loveroftrees (Jun 3, 2008)

I wear them alot. I have ran my 036 into my leg. If I did not have them on lets just say it would have been ugly. After it happened I called my buddy over showed him sat down drank a water, cleaned out the saw {the fiber makes a mess} and went back to work. O by the way, I changed my chapps and but on a new pair. Like saws I have several paires of chapps. Just bought a nother pair on E-Bay....bob


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## ClimbinArbor (Jun 3, 2008)

*never worn em.*

been cutting wood since i was a wee one and i have never worn a pair. i have never cut my self with a saw, and am gonna try just real hard to keep it that way lol. i run to fast paced for them anyhow. would spend more time taking em off and putting them on than i would doing a whole tree each day. and ill be danged if im wearin that stuff in a tree lol. wearing a pair of chaps all day would be like wearing a lead vest in the jungle i would think lol.

i WOULD recommend putting them on the newbies tho. they can be really stupid lol.


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## Thillmaine (Jun 4, 2008)

*somtimes*

if I am doing a lot of cutting I wear em. If I am at my 7-5 job its required to wear em. I try to avoid using a chainsaw on the ground if I have to go all the wya to the truckt o get the damn things for one cut. At my hous ror my Saturday job for a few cuts no way, but for a lot of bucking and felling always. so sometimes yes, sometimes no. X2 on newbies neccesary for at least a year or 2


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## ropensaddle (Jun 4, 2008)

herschel said:


> Well, I do wear my chaps for all chain saw work and on cool days, I wear my chain saw pants.
> 
> I've had 2 chains jump off of my big saws and hit me in the crotch. (My crotch, not a tree crotch.) I had chaps on both times and I still get chills imaging the mess I might have been in.
> 
> ...



I see whats going on now they are in Canada when they decide to
mandate this gear. I will say this and I know it is not fair but if someone
is working under my supervision they are wearing them. I will wear them
when it is cool but it is already 95degrees here and I already had one
heat episode back in 85 I have never cut my leg pants etc. I could live
with a cut most likely but may not with heatstroke. I would wear them
in Canada and think it is great not here pard you would not make two 
hours and you would be out.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jun 4, 2008)

*chaps....*

I wear them when I'm doing a bunch of cutting. For a quick cut or two I'll skip them. I have my workers wear them too. In the tree I don't because I need to move easily and I don't need the extra pounds slowing me down. Also in the tree far fewer cuts are near my legs. Usually in the tree cuts are more chest high.


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