# What stain to use on milled wood



## 7oaks (May 28, 2010)

I couldn't think of a better forum to ask this question so forgive me if this is considered "off topic" but I figured you all will have the most experience staining the wood you have milled.

I just completed a pole barn to store my tractor and other equipment. It is covered with ship lapped 10" vertical pine rough cut boards. I need some suggestions on what is the most durable semi transparent cedar colored stain to use. Our log house has Sikkens cedar so I want to match that but I haven't been totally satisfied with its longevity and when I restain it gets darker with each coat.

Any experiences and advice will be appreciated.


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## mtngun (May 28, 2010)

The better brands of stains sold at Home Depot are rated by how many years they are guaranteed to last, for whatever that is worth. The longer lasting stains cost the most.

Some of the stains are "penetrating stains", thin stuff that soaks into the grain. Usually the penetrating stains do not last as long, but they bring out the natural wood grain and look better to my eye. Lately I've been favoring the Mcloskey brand "penetrating oil" sold at Walmart. I doubt if it lasts as long as the more expensive, thicker stains, though.


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## Ted J (May 28, 2010)

I prefer the penofin red label:

Quick Facts:
*Ultra Premium Formula for Extra Performance
*Increased transoxide pigments for 99% ultraviolet protection against fading
*Extra protection against mildew
*Ten transparent tones
*Brazilian Rosewood Oil that deeply penetrates to protect against moisture
*Pigments won't fade, turn chalky or wash off

http://www.penofin.com/tips-log.shtml


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## TraditionalTool (May 28, 2010)

Carl,

I have a preference for water based stains, and one reason I don't care for Sikkens on log/timber. Sikkens is great in a marine environment, so for any type of bright work on a boat that is exposed to salt, I think it's great for that as it offers good protection from the harsh environment.

I plan to use Sansin stain on my log home, it's water based and allows the wood to breath.

Another water based stain is Sashco.

I have tested Sansin Purity "Artic Clear" on my home office interior (knotty white pine t&g) and like the look, so I will be using Sansin. I plan to use the Honey color on the exterior. A little pigment is good to protect against the UV.

Good luck on your choice, it's always difficult to pick stain.

BTW, that Sikkens is tough to strip off, another reason not to use it. It requires much more effect to get off, which needs to be done if you change the type of stain you use. My $0.02, worth what you paid for it.


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## 7oaks (Jun 15, 2010)

Ted J said:


> I prefer the penofin red label:
> 
> Quick Facts:
> *Ultra Premium Formula for Extra Performance
> ...



After quite a bit of research and consulting with some knowledgeable builders I committed today to using Penofin red. Thanks for the suggestion Ted. I had previously really loved another brand, Arbortex, but it is no longer manufactured and the company recommended Penofin as well. Just bought 5 gallons today - wish me luck.


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## Texas Traveler (Jun 16, 2010)

Call me a nut or what ever, but I would go with pine tar.

Pure Swede Stockholm tar.

You could get a 100 years service with just a touchup over the years.

http://www.auson.se/content/view/29/26/lang,en/

I use it on my decks & fences


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## 7oaks (Jun 16, 2010)

Texas Traveler said:


> Call me a nut or what ever, but I would go with pine tar.
> 
> Pure Swede Stockholm tar.
> 
> ...



New product to me and very interesting. I'd like to see some buildings that used it in the past to see its durability. Thanks for the heads-up.


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## Texas Traveler (Jun 16, 2010)

7oaks said:


> New product to me and very interesting. I'd like to see some buildings that used it in the past to see its durability. Thanks for the heads-up.



There are buildings in Northern Europe that has 100 year old wood roofs that had pine tar used on them.

It was used on sailing ships for centuries as a deck slop (varnish)
3 part equal mix turp, linseed oil, pine tar & with a small amount of a dryer .

It is almost a fountain of youth on dry wood.


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## annie wilson (Feb 17, 2012)

If you plan to stain the wood, opt for pure wood crown molding. Treating the wood with a quality stain can help protect it from damage.


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## 820wards (Feb 17, 2012)

Texas Traveler said:


> There are buildings in Northern Europe that has 100 year old wood roofs that had pine tar used on them.
> 
> It was used on sailing ships for centuries as a deck slop (varnish)
> 3 part equal mix turp, linseed oil, pine tar & with a small amount of a dryer .
> ...



So Texas,

What dryer would you recommend for the above mixture?

jerry-


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## sixteenacrewood (Feb 24, 2012)

The pine tar recipe is refered to as "boat soup" I use it on my wooden boat, a 1760s era river flat.

The dryer is called "japan drier" available in most paint dept. or paint stores line Porter Paints.

If the wood is very dry use the linseed/pine tar/turpentine mix for the first coat or two with a week between coats, this will let the wood soak up a max amount of the boat soup.

the third coat should have the japan drier in it and will allow the last coat to harden in the wood grain.

I would suggest using this recipe on a sample of wood to make sure you like it.

my boat is solid southern yellow pine and after 5 years of use has aged to a dark almost coffee color patina. I like it a lot but the color may not be for everyone or every application, but the wood will last and hold up to the elements.

hope this helps


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## 820wards (Feb 24, 2012)

sixteenacrewood said:


> The pine tar recipe is refered to as "boat soup" I use it on my wooden boat, a 1760s era river flat.
> 
> The dryer is called "japan drier" available in most paint dept. or paint stores line Porter Paints.
> 
> ...





Thanks Sixteen,

jerry-


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## logbob (Feb 24, 2012)

For log homes, cabins, barns, etc. I recommend two coats of a LOW solid content stain, and two coats of VERY HIGH content finish.
Very high content finish is easily recognized in that it has the consistency of a gel or grease, and is normally applied by brush or with special pressurized paint guns, because it won't flow out of a normal paint gun.
The stain is supposed to penetrate into the wood, reason why I don't recommend high solids, while the finish is supposed to seal it and therefore must sit on top and create a thick protective film.
High solid stains that are supposed to both stain and seal with one coat or two won't penetrate and won't seal, and are just good for hobbists.
A borate treatment before staining is strongly adviced in order to prevent rot and molds and insects. 
Borate treated wood that is exposed to the elements will ALWAYS have to be sealed with a good quality finish, in order to prevent the borates from being washed away with the rain and moisture.
I always spray my cants with borates when they are stored too keep them free of insects and molds and to minimize craking and twisting.

I have tried both oil based and water based products and am much happier with GOOD QUALITY water based compared to GOOD QUALITY oil based - such as Sikkens.
A good water based stain usually contains penetrating agents (glycols) that increase penetration and diffusion of the stain into the wood fibers.
Some borate treatments also contain glycols (Boracare and Timbor), and that will also help penetration of water based stains in case they don't contain glycols - and this is yet another good reason to treat with glycol based borates before staining.
Glycols also act as a wood stabilizing agents, in that they replace water and do not evaporate therefore reducing shrinking, twisting etc.
Acrilics (water based) are more flexible than resins (oil based) and therefore will adjust to settling better, without craking or peeling, Acrilics are easier to maintain as a good wash with water and mild soap is all that is required before a new coat of finish is applied when the old finish finally starts to wear out, whereas most resins will instead require at least some light sanding.

So my advice is Boracare + 2 coats water based low solid stain + 2 coats water based high solid finish.
I guarantee such treatment for 5 years and it may even last as much as 7-8 before a new coat of finish is required.

As to Boracare, Timbor and Glycols here's a link to an interesting read...
Chemotherapy for Rot


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## newguy11 (Feb 24, 2012)

newbie here,

wondering what you guys thought about spar urethane on milled eastern hemlock for shed

thanks


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## Mike Cantolina (Feb 24, 2012)

sixteenacrewood said:


> The pine tar recipe is refered to as "boat soup" I use it on my wooden boat, a 1760s era river flat.
> 
> The dryer is called "japan drier" available in most paint dept. or paint stores line Porter Paints.
> 
> ...



Can you post a pic of the boat?


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## Eecho (Feb 24, 2012)

*I professionally finish wood floors every day*

Just to give you a heads up sikkens is good finish . They make automotive urethanes in the u.s. That rival that of dupont too. Im not selling you on any finish but in my field I use them everyday . I would use oil outside no buts the dryer you use in any oil to make it cure faster is japan dryer but it isnt recommended in a lot of todays voc compliant finishes . Cetol is good from sikkens and tung oil will work as well but it will need multiple coats throughout the years . I finish hundreds of thousands of board foot per year as a flooring mechanic so any help you want feel free to ask . Before I get the inside only bit let me say have you ever seen a exterior porch tongue and grooved from furr . We do those too in anti skid coatings and transparent stains . So ask all you may ill help according to your exposure to elements and even the best application methods for any surface you may have pertaining to wood.


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## logbob (Feb 25, 2012)

newguy11 said:


> newbie here,
> 
> wondering what you guys thought about spar urethane on milled eastern hemlock for shed
> 
> thanks



Spar urethane is a low solid oil based finish. The low solid content makes for a more flexible finish, as high solid urethanes are rather prone to cracking. However I would not recommend a low solid content product for a finish, as it won't build a thick (yet flexible) film to protect the wood from the elements. 
Urethane based finishes are recommended when a certain resistance is required, such as in decking, floorings etc. 
Acrilic finishes (water based) simply do not have the necessary mechanical resistance for that.
Spar urethan however is not specifically formulated for such use, in that the low solid content results in poor mechanical resistance. For flooring and decking that are not directly exposed to the elements (such as patios) a specific high solid urethane finish is recommended, while for decking that are directly exposed to the elements pure oils will generally yeld the best results, although rather expensive.


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## Talltom (Feb 25, 2012)

Film forming varnishes do not allow moisture movement through the finish and are generally not recommended for siding. At a minimum, you would need to seal all 6 sides of the siding and the wood would need to be very dry.

I have tried several different oil based finishes on exterior wood surfaces with mixed results. The best results have come from Sikkens Cetol 1 & 23 + (which I do not think is available any more, or if it is, it's a different formula. I bought a lot of it before it was pulled from the market). It was expensive ($50/gal) and required 3 coats. It has held up for 5 years on areas that get sun and weather and longer on more protected areas. I use a dark color on window and door trim. Not too hard to recoat - rub with 00 steel wool & apply 1 coat of 23+ or 1 coat of cetol 1 followed by 1 coat of 23 + if wood has weathered a little. The difficulty is that the last third coat is very difficult to see to ensure complete coverage. I found out through experience that the painter who did the original application didn't do a good job - had to sand to bare wood & recoat after 3 years. Sikkens is really anal about prep and compatability. Can't be sure what is really necessary and what is meant to limit liability.

My house also has vertical cedar siding on which I have used Cabot deck & siding stain. Holds up well but the mildew loves it. I spray with a bleach solution once or sometimes twice a year. Cabot says it contains a mildewicide and I have the paint store add extra, but it doesn't stop the mildew. Someone told me that the mildew feeds on the alkyd resins in the finish & I have no trouble believing that.

For items I have built from wood that I have milled, I've used Messmers UV plus and it also gets mildew, though dark color seems to hold up to the weather well. I have used their UV Plus in natural (i.e. low pigment)for hardwood on an Ipe deck & it only lasts about 3 months. Sikkens requires cleaning Ipe with acetone prior to using their product, so that was out. 

Have had better luck with Benjamin Moore deck & siding stain on some posts. As with most of today's semi-transparent stain, they tell you to use one coat only. I used 2 on the posts (and with the darker Messmers stain on oak). Only problem is that it takes a couple days for the second coat to dry (& it has a sheen that you wouldn't want on a deck). Have not had the mildew problem with the Benjamin Moore but that may be because they shed water faster.

I'll probably try a water based stain the next time I coat the siding to see if it does better with the mildew .


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## sixteenacrewood (Feb 25, 2012)

Mike, 
I'll start a new thread tomorrow and post a photo or two of my boat, 

I hate to sidetrack a good thread like this.


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## logbob (Feb 25, 2012)

Talltom, film vs non film is an old debate. It is true what you say that film forming varnishes do not allow moisture movement thru the finish, however all the cracks and checks on the logs and sidings will still allow the necessary moisture movement, in that they are not sealed by the finish.
I never had issues with wood which is not well dried, since the acrilic finish is more flexible than resins and won't suffer as much from settling and shrinkage.
Settling and shrinkage can happen only when moisture is released from the wood, so as long as the wood shrinks you can make sure that it is loosing moisture...

Meldew gets into the wood fibers with moisture, so you won't solve your problems with mildew by using water based stains, unless the wood is sealed. Borates would help inhibit the formation of mildew but you cannot treat with borates if you don't seal.
I encourage you try my recipe on a piece of scrapwood, you won't be disappointed.
Borates, low solid stain, film forming finish.
I will post some pics for comparison when I get the chance.


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## Talltom (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks, LogBob. I will certainly try your formula. I have been noticing that newer water based products have better compatability with oil based products used under them. 

As to mildew, I have treated fence boards with 2 applications of Timbor followed by Cabot semi-transparent alkyd stain and have the same problem with mildew, so I'm inclined to believe that alkyd resin is the problem. BTW, Timbor is not a glycol based product - it's a powder mixed with water. Boracare is the same borate powder premixed with Glycol, which does provide additional penetration and is the reason you only need one application. I have been using Timbor on milled wood that has bugs before I stack it to air dry, and much of the hardwood I mill has signs of borer infestation or damage. It's a PITA but it's either that or firewood. I also use Timbor on all for all outdoor wood prior to finishing. Boracare would be easier but is quite a bit more expensive.


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## Eecho (Feb 26, 2012)

The only way your going to stop mildew is to stop moisture from laying on surfaces . If you build a full coating over a surface you can always pressure wash it off . Tsp removes it available at most paint stores. Cabot is ok for the results it produces. Personally I wouldnt put a water based outside and the stains produce a horrible result .


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