# Stump Grinder Math



## Topbuilder

A couple years ago I jumped into the stump grinder business with both feet. It seemed like a natural fit, I already had the truck and a couple different gooseneck trailers. I had a shop and all the tools I would need. I worked at a farm equipment dealership for 20 years so I had the ability to make most of my own repairs. 
I bought two used Raycos from the same individual. One tow behind and a RG-50. With the purchase I got a 5 minute operating lesson and a 10 minute talk on the business side of the business... How he charged jobs. Not knowing any better, I decided to use his pricing system, which was a standard set up fee + $8 per stump. My first job was 20-30 fresh cut pines ranging from 12 - 30". By the time I completed that job I knew that I had bid the job like a hobby, not enough to feed a machine hungry for fuel , teeth and an ever growing list of expenses...
I left that job headed to another big job. I figured out what I had to make to cover expenses and have something left over. I bid the next job by making mental calculations of how much time it would for each stump x my new "rate". The guy freaked. He was used to paying $8. I walked him over to the bigest stump on the job. (the one in my avatar) It was a 72" pine. I explained to him that stump was going to take me 3 hours, and it was going to cost me $15 in fuel. He was a common sense guy, I had no problems with that job or any job after that. 
Have I done every job I have bid? No. Not because I over charge, because there is people out there willing to undercut even if it means they don't make money. 
Anyway, I said all that to say this - I needed a way to estimate the valure of a 18" stump verses a 48" stump. I really did not want to use the "per inch" formula I had seen others use. My area would not support pricing like that anyhow. I started with area... a circle is 78.53% of a square. I'm no math wiz but I can deal with that. So a 24" stump is 1.78 x larger than a 18" stump. OK that was shocking. A 36" stump is 4.01 x larger than a 18" stump. 

So, if your rate for an 18" stump was $15 then:
24" $26.74 1.78 x larger
36" $60.17 4.01 x
48" $107.04 7.13 x 
60" $167.30 11.15 x
72" $240.93 16.06 x
84" $327.86 21.85 x

Does a 48" stump take the same amount of time as a 7 18" stumps? Probably not. When you factor in moving from one to the other and other variables. But it gives me a starting point. When you explain to the customer that 36" stump is not two 18" stumps, it's four 18" stumps they understand the pricing a little better.


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## treecutterjr

That math makes since but I made a craigslist ad charging $3.00an inch and people have been eating it up. Are those your actual rates or just for demonstration purpose?

I just got $150 for a 4 ft diameter oak stump 2 days ago cut fairly flush. I just picked up 2 stumps for $450 this evening. They were about 6ft across. 
I understand the math of what you are saying but the inch think seems to work for me and the customers like it because they can have a rough idea of what it will cost before they call and it's basically a done deal. 

24" =$75
36" =$108 round down to $100
48" = $142 round up to $150
60"=180$

After about the 6 ft mark it can get questionable but so far so good. I don't plan on doing any 10 ft diameter stumps anyway.



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## c5rulz

I am not a stumpgrinder, but TreecutterJr.'s system of so much an inch gives the customer a pretty good idea what they are getting into. Explain you are going out to the edge of the root flair rather than the actual diameter of the stump in order to do a good job.


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## Topbuilder

treecutterjr said:


> That math makes since but I made a craigslist ad charging $3.00an inch and people have been eating it up. Are those your actual rates or just for demonstration purpose?
> 
> I just got $150 for a 4 ft diameter oak stump 2 days ago cut fairly flush. I just picked up 2 stumps for $450 this evening. They were about 6ft across.
> I understand the math of what you are saying but the inch think seems to work for me and the customers like it because they can have a rough idea of what it will cost before they call and it's basically a done deal.
> 
> 24" =$75
> 36" =$108 round down to $100
> 48" = $142 round up to $150
> 60"=180$
> 
> After about the 6 ft mark it can get questionable but so far so good. I don't plan on doing any 10 ft diameter stumps anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Those #s are for an example. You can adjust to fit your needs by changing the cost of the baseline ("18") stump. I've been bidding based on the amount of time I think it is going to take or in some cases is is easy to go with a "per stump" rate. Sometimes I come up short. I am trying to make create a system where I am being fair to the customer and to myself. It also depends on the level of clean-up... grind-and-go vs full chip/dirt separation and clean-up. I would say the #s in my example are for just grinding. The level of clean up has to be added in after.
> 
> But, if you do the math on my example vs the per inch system it would appear the per inch is based on ease of bidding, Not really based on the job at hand. If there is a coralation between grinding cubic inches = time = $, then my example comes out to .0591 cents per square inch. A 24" inch stump being 452.33 square inches. That same stump under the inch method is .1591 cents per square inch and the larger the tree, the less money you make per inch.
> @ $3 per inch: @ rates in example:
> 24" .1591 cents per square inch .0591 cents per square inch
> 36" .1016 " " .0591 " "
> 48" .0795 .0591
> 60" .0636 .0591
> 72" .0530  .0591
> 84" .0454 .0591
> 
> I've been grinding for three years. I cannot come up with any reason I would want to grind a 6' stump at one third the rate of a 2' stump. If anything it should be the other way around. Raking that mountain of shavings (several times) is being done for free.
> It seems the same loss is being realized by tree cutters using this system.
> 
> Just playing with #s and thinking out loud. Where am I going wrong?


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## Topbuilder

Sorry, it looks like my columns got crammed together.


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## treecutterjr

I have a plow on the back of my grinder and now I hardly ever take a rake with me. Push it up, blow and go. I don't hauI the chips/mulch or its extra. the inch method is super. I can't realistically make a run for a $25 stump & neither can you. 
And I would say ease of bidding is definitely a plus. If you didn't have to bid the stumps, Only go do them, You would save tons of time and time is money. You make more per square inch based on the inch method. We are in business to make money. It's easier for the business. Easier for the customer. Sounds like a win win. 
And speaking to your square inch point you just add in limits/levels. Stumps 1 ft. To 6 ft. $3.00/in
Stumps over 7 in. = $3.50/inch or $4.00 or $3.75.

Ease of bidding is the whole point to my method. 

That's what every other "real" trade does. That's whya plumber can say i can put in so many feet ofpipe for this amount bang. A tow guy says how many miles are you going? Hers the price bam. Even the lawn guys can bid your yard with out seeing it. Just give them the measurements. 

That's what the inch method does for stump grinding. 

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## Topbuilder

The problem is in our area the inch method would have you at home watching tv. 
I bid a job yesterday with 28 pines on three acres, average 20". That would be a $1700 job @ $3 an inch. Never happen here. my bid - $600 . If i'm lucky, I'm in and out in 6 hours. 
I know other areas will support that rate, $285 per hour... not here.


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## climbhightree

If you Estimate by inch...how does this account for depth of grinding (4" or 12" deep)? What about surface roots, or ground humps due to stump flare? Softwood vs hardwood? 

I typically bid on a per hour basis, with an minimum charge. 

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## climbhightree

Then you got issues like rocky ground, or metal, that destroy teeth...therefore bid accordingly. Also ease of access. 

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## Mowingman

I would not even hook up my trailer, let alone leave the driveway for most of the prices those above have quoted.
I don't price to lose money or break even. I would rather leave the machine in the trailer and set at home reading a good book.
Jeff


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## luckydozenfarm

I like to think of the pricing of your products or services as the same as turning the carb screws when tuning up a saw. You turn the screw rich (higher price) the saw (business) will stumble and fall on it's face. If you turn it too lean (lower price) the saw (business) will overwork itself, overheat and blow up. And, like a saw the adjustment will have to be made on a regular basis. Plus the ear for tuning a saw or business comes from experience. So I would suggest you start out making proposals that are netting you about 90% of the work and go from there. 
I also run a mechanic shop and I like to keep it at 95% capacity. If I'm at 100% I wonder if I'm not pricing high enough to be efficient. Just a few thought from a business owner.


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

Topbuilder said:


> The problem is in our area the inch method would have you at home watching tv.
> I bid a job yesterday with 28 pines on three acres, average 20". That would be a $1700 job @ $3 an inch. Never happen here. my bid - $600 . If i'm lucky, I'm in and out in 6 hours.
> I know other areas will support that rate, $285 per hour... not here.



Exactly u would be at 21.42 per stump, I probably would have to go to 15-17 to get the job here, stump grinders
everywhere, just bid 47 stumps at 750 or 15.95 per stump, all sizes.....

I shoot for 100 per hr, wish I could get the prices they do other parts of the country, but we would starve to
death down here at those prices, inch price down here would get u laughed out of the neighborhood, I look
at the job figure about how long it wil take and multiply by 100.00, I should be able to do the 47 stumps
in 7 hours so 750.00 is my bid, when people call and ask price per stump I just tell them 10.00 and up, for
an accurate price I have to see the job, a 3 ft sweetgum could have roots out 10 ft all around, etc....

Bob.....


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## marne

OLD MAN GRINDER said:


> ...I shoot for 100 per hr, ... I look at the job figure about how long it wil take and multiply by 100.00, I should be able to do the 47 stumps
> in 7 hours so 750.00 is my bid...



Same here but around 140$. Prepare an excel sheet, find out how long your grinder needs for a gal of stump (this is the only truth), multiply with your rate/hr, calc down to $ per inch, easier for the client to understand and compare.
In avg I end up with 3$ per in.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose, even when you get the job.


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## Topbuilder

climbhightree said:


> If you Estimate by inch...how does this account for depth of grinding (4" or 12" deep)? What about surface roots, or ground humps due to stump flare? Softwood vs hardwood?
> 
> I typically bid on a per hour basis, with an minimum charge.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


 Yes, that is really what we have to deal with is cubic inches or cubic feet. If you do the math in cubic inches it makes bidding by the inch seem more flawed. All those conditions contribute to the final job. I'm just working on a baseline for me, my machine , my area. Sometimes when bidding "per stump" on a job where the average is fairly consistant, I will give a larger stump or one with surface roots , the price of 2 or the price of three stumps in the group. Your power of your machine really comes into play. If the stump is an extra 6" above ground level that can make a big difference for the smaller machines. They are going to want it cut or cut it lower themselves. The way I look at it ,unless it is really faster to saw cut it I'll just grind it. Price it in either way. 

I finished my $600 job in 5 1/2 hours trailer to trailer. Customer is happy. I sold two days of work with my boxblade tractor cleaning the place up. That's a good day...


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## Mowingman

Up here in north Texas, I have been able to hold to a rate of about $200.00/hr, trailer to trailer. My minimum is $75.00 in town and $100.00, outside of town. It is getting tougher though, as several people are renting handlebar grinders and doing $100.00 jobs for $25.00. However, I often get hired to go back and clean up the messes they leave behind.
Jeff


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

Mowingman said:


> Up here in north Texas, I have been able to hold to a rate of about $200.00/hr, trailer to trailer. My minimum is $75.00 in town and $100.00, outside of town. It is getting tougher though, as several people are renting handlebar grinders and doing $100.00 jobs for $25.00. However, I often get hired to go back and clean up the messes they leave behind.
> Jeff



I run into people all the time that were going to rent a grinder until they see the price, I tell them I can do in 15 minutes what it would
take them hours with a rental, some even tried the rental and then they call me when they see how much work is involved using
one of those low power rental units, don't see how anybody could make any money using a rental unit..

By the way Bandit is going to be having an open house at the old poston dealers, I think may 2nd not sure, web site should
have exact date, may go to the one in pearland to see bill poston b4 he retires. get some free bbq...

Have a great one..

Bob....


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## Mowingman

I wish I were closer. I got an invite to that, but 300+ miles is just a little too far. Enjoy my share of the BBQ.









OLD MAN GRINDER said:


> I run into people all the time that were going to rent a grinder until they
> see the price, I tell them I can do in 15 minutes what it would
> take them hours with a rental, some even tried the rental and then they call me when they see how much work is involved using
> one of those low power rental units, don't see how anybody could make any money using a rental unit..
> 
> By the way Bandit is going to be having an open house at the old poston dealers, I think may 2nd not sure, web site should
> have exact date, may go to the one in pearland to see bill poston b4 he retires. get some free bbq...
> 
> Have a great one..
> 
> Bob....


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## 066blaster

Looking into a used vermeer 252 are they decent? Can they handle a 36 inch stump


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

066blaster said:


> Looking into a used vermeer 252 are they decent? Can they handle a 36 inch stump




Yes, I had one 27hp, just takes a while, had yellow jacket teeth, good machine but you would not want
a steady diet of large stumps with it......keep belts tight, sharp teeth and it does a good job....


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## 066blaster

OLD MAN GRINDER said:


> Yes, I had one 27hp, just takes a while, had yellow jacket teeth, good machine but you would not want
> a steady diet of large stumps with it......keep belts tight, sharp teeth and it does a good job....


The guy put a 18 horse on it. Will it work?


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

066blaster said:


> The guy put a 18 horse on it. Will it work?



Not good for serious grinding, 18hp not enough. not even a serious rental machine..

Bob....


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## 066blaster

OLD MAN GRINDER said:


> Not good for serious grinding, 18hp not enough. not even a serious rental machine..
> 
> Bob....


I will pprobably buy it an look for a bigger engine. It's only $2500


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## Fairbanks Stump

Ok here's simple math
Hourly rate=customer price! 

I tell all my callers that want a bid, that guys that charge by the inch or work by the stump are taking you for a ride !
I work by the hour 
I'll give you honest work for honest pay and do it better than ANY one! 
That tactic works well and I grind a ton of stumps


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## marne

In my area, if I would tell the customers I charge 140$+/hr, they would call me crazy before they kick me off their lawn.

That they pay 140/hr in the end doesn't matter. If I charge by the inch, they cannot compare it with their personal hourly rate, which is for sure much less as they don't have an expensive maintance of a stumper, but they can compare me with competitors.

@066blaster, don't buy it, 18hp is way too weak and as it has a new engine the rest of the machine has lots of hours.


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## climbhightree

First of all, you don't tell them on the phone your rate per hour. You go out and look at the stump, and give them a price. Secondly, it isn't 140 for you per hour, half or more of that is the hourly rate of the equipment...if they bulk at that you tell them he machine new is more expensive than their car. 

Sometimes I tell them up front, that they can go rent machine, and do it themselves. But they will spend all day doing what I'll take me an hour. 

People pay 75 plus and hour for mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc...and don't bat and eye. Our equipment is just as expensive as theirs...and our risk is higher. 

If you save up stumps, make sure they are willing to wait. 



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## Mowingman

I do the same as "climbhightree". If they don't like my price,I always suggest they might do it themselves. I quote them the current rental rate at Home Depot, and at the only rental house near here that rents grinders. I do it in a nice helpful way, not snotty. I usually get the job after that.
Jeff


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## Fairbanks Stump

When customers ask you for your hourly rate be very positive and matter of fact an change the subject and ask them how many stumps they have? And sell them on how many stumps you can cut and of what size per hour. 
Most customer jobs are an hour or two. 
If you think ALL of your customers know every detail about your business or your competitions you are giving them too much credit! Most of the time they just want to feel that they are dealing with a professional who has their needs in mind! They want to pay for and receive a quality service. 
2 things to remember
'Cost is only a factor in the absence of value' 
You don't need to do all the work in town, you only need to do that which pays well, and furthers your goals and longevity of your business!


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## MOE

I try to bid the job to make an hourly rate I need. By the inch would be tough way too many species of trees and soil conditions, slope Oaks in sand go fast and are easy on equipment. cottonwoods and maples take a long time because of surface roots and root crowns. grinding in rocks gets expensive quick. Quoting hourly rates wouldn't work for me either. I have a carlton 8018 and rayco RG100 both very fast machines. That said, I'd get hung up on every time if I said $250/hour. Most people would rather pay $100/ hour to hire someone with a 252vermeer vs 250/hour for an 8018 even though in the end the 250/ would be a lot cheaper.


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## Fairbanks Stump

Moe that's why I said when they ask the hourly rate change the subject by selling them on how much you can do in an hour and if they pressure you for a number state "it will probably be less than _____ 
they hear the word less than and then they hear a number that usually satisfy a them even though you've told them nothing concrete before they respond ask them for their address and tell them when you'll be there. 
Being able to finish the deal is as important as making your phone ring. 
Give it a try ! It works very well for everyone I've convinced to do it


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## Mowingman

"it will probably be less than _____"

I use this exact same phrase, A LOT.
It really works.
Jeff


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## paccity

by the hr. with a min show rate. folks are happy even with the min charge when it takes me longer to unload and load than to grind the stump. if there is a big chance that i'm going to knock some carbide off i let them know a head of time and charge per bit lost. pretty good at judging how long it's going to take me . and if i have to travel more than 20 miles i charge a one way travel fee. and if it's over the phone bid and it's not what was subscribed the price get's changed accordingly. and some times it is to the customers benefit. it's not rocket science when you know your machine and get some stumps under your belt. easy money in my book.


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## Topbuilder

My advertizing states I will give a price over the phone. I try not to spend time looking at and bidding the easy jobs. The way I look at it, even if I leave a few bucks on the table, it will not equal what it costs me driving to the job and then getting into a long conversation. Of course larger jobs have to be looked at but, I have my machine with me. When they say when can you start? I say, "How about right now" It saves alot of driving.
I have given people the option of by the hour on large or non-typical situations. It works out sometimes, alot of times they do not want to even consider it. Sometimes I think they are unable to trust that someone they just met, is going to actually work hard AND do what they say they are going to do.


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

Topbuilder said:


> My advertizing states I will give a price over the phone. I try not to spend time looking at and bidding the easy jobs. The way I look at it, even if I leave a few bucks on the table, it will not equal what it costs me driving to the job and then getting into a long conversation. Of course larger jobs have to be looked at but, I have my machine with me. When they say when can you start? I say, "How about right now" It saves alot of driving.
> I have given people the option of by the hour on large or non-typical situations. It works out sometimes, alot of times they do not want to even consider it. Sometimes I think they are unable to trust that someone they just met, is going to actually work hard AND do what they say they are going to do.



You are absolutely right, people down here are so used to contractors not showing up that they act surprised when they see me actually showing
up when I said I would, did a job Friday where the guy did not show up, easy 250 too.......

Bob....


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## MOE

Topbuilder said:


> My advertizing states I will give a price over the phone. I try not to spend time looking at and bidding the easy jobs. The way I look at it, even if I leave a few bucks on the table, it will not equal what it costs me driving to the job and then getting into a long conversation. Of course larger jobs have to be looked at but, I have my machine with me. When they say when can you start? I say, "How about right now" It saves alot of driving.
> I have given people the option of by the hour on large or non-typical situations. It works out sometimes, alot of times they do not want to even consider it. Sometimes I think they are unable to trust that someone they just met, is going to actually work hard AND do what they say they are going to do.


Trust is an issue here. Unfortunatly there are a few yahoo's running around with stump grinders and bucket trucks that have burned people and make it harder for honest, hard working buisnesses to gain the trust of customers.


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## lone wolf

066blaster said:


> I will pprobably buy it an look for a bigger engine. It's only $2500


The engine will cost a couple thousand!


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## luckydozenfarm

Speaking of stump grinders...does anyone here have any experience with PTO stump grinders? Something like the Woods model? I think its the Sc-50. I clear pastures for ranchers and keep the big wood for my firewood business and a few guys have asked me if I grind the stumps so they can get the shredder in there to mow out the little stuff. The last guy had over 1000 oaks so if I was going to even think about doing something like this I would need something heavy duty. I already have a tractor and I've seen a few YouTube videos and they seem pretty quick. Is this something worth getting or what?


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

luckydozenfarm said:


> Speaking of stump grinders...does anyone here have any experience with PTO stump grinders? Something like the Woods model? I think its the Sc-50. I clear pastures for ranchers and keep the big wood for my firewood business and a few guys have asked me if I grind the stumps so they can get the shredder in there to mow out the little stuff. The last guy had over 1000 oaks so if I was going to even think about doing something like this I would need something heavy duty. I already have a tractor and I've seen a few YouTube videos and they seem pretty quick. Is this something worth getting or what?


 
I had a shaver sc25 on a 44hp Kubota years ago, the first grinder I owned, I think the woods is the same thing painted
a different color, it tore up the pto but was covered by warranty after a fight with Kubota, the sc50 is the bigger one
and will need a lot of hp to operate, I don't know what your tractor hp is but u would need at least 65-75 minimum in
my opinion, the sc25 would not do the job that my bandit does but was nice to do field jobs with as it is quicker
to get around with, u might also look at the miller pto grinders and other makes b4 u make a decision....if the field
stumps are a year or two old they will go quick, fresh cut that is another story....hope this helps..

Bob.....


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## luckydozenfarm

It's mostly standing dead when they are cut. But all post oaks, which never seem to rot away. I have three tractors 36 hp, 80 hp, and 125 hp that have a 540 pto, so I have that covered. I would go with the biggest grinder for sure. Most of my stumps are smaller than 24". Thanks for the input.


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## howel07264

Topbuilder said:


> The problem is in our area the inch method would have you at home watching tv.
> I bid a job yesterday with 28 pines on three acres, average 20". That would be a $1700 job @ $3 an inch. Never happen here. my bid - $600 . If i'm lucky, I'm in and out in 6 hours.
> I know other areas will support that rate, $285 per hour... not here.


$100 a run hour will not keep you in business with any profit. I charge $2 an inch which would make this a $1120 job and would take around 3 hours. I'm in a metro area and am very competitive with competition. It takes a lot of money to keep equipment running.... just saying.


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## OLD MAN GRINDER

howel07264 said:


> $100 a run hour will not keep you in business with any profit. I charge $2 an inch which would make this a $1120 job and would take around 3 hours. I'm in a metro area and am very competitive with competition. It takes a lot of money to keep equipment running.... just saying.



I guess I need to move LOL....

Bob......


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## luckydozenfarm

I guess it all depends on where you live. Water is expensive in the desert. I can get almost $300 a cord selling in Houston, where they don't have the ability to cut their own wood. But out at my place, everyone has their own wood.


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## Topbuilder

howel07264 said:


> $100 a run hour will not keep you in business with any profit. I charge $2 an inch which would make this a $1120 job and would take around 3 hours. I'm in a metro area and am very competitive with competition. It takes a lot of money to keep equipment running.... just saying.


 
I hear ya. But, I'm not running a 7015TRX either. These 20 + jobs are not my core business. I'm mainly doing residential 2 here 5 there type of thing. When we get to the 100 degree mark I refer them to the guys with larger machines. 
You "by the inch" guys still puzzle me. You see by the #s the larger the stump, the less you make. Just making it easy to bid makes it worth it or I guess the majority of your work is done on the smaller/higher profit stumps and it all works out...
If the market accepts that $2 per inch is a good price for a 24" stump then :

24" stump = $48, or .1061 cents per square inch of surface area (for all stump sizes) 
36 = 107.98
48 = 191.96
60 = 299.95
72 = 431.93
84 = 587.90

What the same stumps look like at $2 per inch:

24" = $48-------------------.1061 cents per square inch
36 = 72----------------------.0707
48 = 96----------------------.0530
60 = 120--------------------.0424
72 = 144--------------------.0353
84 = 168--------------------.0303

Now granted that suposses that every stump is a the same distance out of the ground, same dirt crown, same amount of roots and each one is a perfect circle...it will never happen. But you would agree the larger the stump, generally the worse all of those conditions get.


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## luckydozenfarm

The market price is always right considering there are sufficient customers and servicers. 
My main business is auto repair and I wont do oil changes any more. Not because they are hard or we don't have the equipment, its that they only bring me about $6 in profit. Sorry but it's my personal opinion that getting hot oil all over me and the time it takes to do an oil change is worth more than $6. 
Find the price that works for you and leave it at that. If you cant get any takers at the price you want to be paid for it, then you should probably find something else to do. Just my opinion but getting paid less than you think you deserve only brings misery. 
I mean I like to grind stumps as much as the next guy, but if I had to take less than what I thought the job should bring, I would do something else.


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## 066blaster

You have to take into consideration distance from your house also. I just did a 37 a 14 and a 25 today for $190 took about 3 hours. 20 miles from home. I didn't get rich but it was ok. Plus I got about 35 dollars worth of firewood. The tree service left a couple big rounds. I'm thinking about advertising 15 inches and less $50 15-25 $70 25-30 $90 30-35 $120. Plus extra for anything weird or longer travel time. The grinder only makes money if it's running.


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## 066blaster

stihls066 said:


> I currently just rent a good grinder when needed ( not my primary gig) $175 for the day. I get a few jobs lined up and hit em all in one day. Each job pays $200 show up fee plus $50 a stump under 24" $100 24-50 and $200 over that. Im mot gonna waste my time for chimp change. Most all my side work is repeat customers b
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you can get that good for you. I'm pretty new at this but don't think I could charge that much.


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## 066blaster

Can anyone make a living grinding stumps? There just doesn't seem to be much of a demand by me and I'm in a pretty populated area. And people have money. Maybe I have to get hooked up with some tree services.


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## Fairbanks Stump

I promote the idiots that work for less than 100/hr because they will winter kill them selves even if they work with a pos 1625super jr because after fuel insurance (on the machine and truck) and maintenance they can't afford any advertising! They will die a slow death and that's OK


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## Menchhofer

Been reading all this about the per inch price. This conversation is about 20 years old. It is true there are alot of people out there that grind stumps for almost nothing. They do not make any money. But unfortunately it is a fact of life.

Knowing your machine and how fast it cuts is the key to pricing stumps in this market. Thus, the larger portable machines seem to excel in this area. You ought to be able to look at the stump and know how long it will take to grind. On average, we make 150-250.00 per hour. Have for many years. Most average 15-20 minutes and we are off to the next one.


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## NCgrinder

066blaster said:


> The guy put a 18 horse on it. Will it work?


 I've used a 252 /25 HP Kohler for 13 yrs... and it takes a long time on larger stumps ... Finally ,after this season I'll upgrade to at least 30 HP (Kohler CH750)..maybe even 34 HP (Kohler CH 940)
IMHO, 18 would be a low-powered machine and would quickly discourage you from taking larger stumps..unless you got all day !!!


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## NCgrinder

As far as thre pricing question.. After 13 years ,I can pretty well tell how long it's going to take.. I base my estimate/price on $ 120/hr for multiple stumps... I have a $75 in-town , $90 in-county minimum and I'll do up to total of 20" for that..
If a customer starts that .." Well I can rent one for"...or.." So&So said he'd do it for..." .. I just thank them for calling, hand them my card and move on... I'm not the BurgerKing of stump-grinders


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## 066blaster

NCgrinder said:


> I've used a 252 /25 HP Kohler for 13 yrs... and it takes a long time on larger stumps ... Finally ,after this season I'll upgrade to at least 30 HP (Kohler CH750)..maybe even 34 HP (Kohler CH 940)
> IMHO, 18 would be a low-powered machine and would quickly discourage you from taking larger stumps..unless you got all day !!!


The guy misspoke it has a 25 kohler pro a couple years old he figured 50 hrs he has a bigger tow behind that he mostly used.


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## jbarth636

Anyone grinding by the hour is just flat out STUPID. Per inch pricing is without doubt the way to go. I can grind a monster 60'' Oak with roots for days in 20-30 minutes about 12 inches deep. I will also clean it up with my mini skid in another 20 minutes for 50% of grinding price. You are leaving money on the table if you are not offering cleanups. I did a 20 shrub job today in 12 minutes and I charged $200. Customer was super happy and so was I. If I told the customer charge $1,000 / Hour what do you think he would have said? I wouldn't be typing this because he probably would have shot me in the head. But just as others have stated, they end up paying it, they just dont see it as such.

Customers dont pay you hourly when youre at the shop changing teeth, tensioning belts, swapping trailer tires, dumping mulch, changing oil, bidding jobs.... the list goes on. YOu make this up in the pricing on your jobs everyday. Anyone working hourly is shooting themselves in the foot.


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## Topbuilder

While I would not go so far as to call "inchers" stupid, I am pretty much convinced they can't read.


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## Menchhofer

jbarth636 said:


> Anyone grinding by the hour is just flat out STUPID. Per inch pricing is without doubt the way to go. I can grind a monster 60'' Oak with roots for days in 20-30 minutes about 12 inches deep. I will also clean it up with my mini skid in another 20 minutes for 50% of grinding price. You are leaving money on the table if you are not offering cleanups. I did a 20 shrub job today in 12 minutes and I charged $200. Customer was super happy and so was I. If I told the customer charge $1,000 / Hour what do you think he would have said? I wouldn't be typing this because he probably would have shot me in the head. But just as others have stated, they end up paying it, they just dont see it as such.
> 
> Customers dont pay you hourly when youre at the shop changing teeth, tensioning belts, swapping trailer tires, dumping mulch, changing oil, bidding jobs.... the list goes on. YOu make this up in the pricing on your jobs everyday. Anyone working hourly is shooting themselves in the foot.





NCgrinder said:


> As far as thre pricing question.. After 13 years ,I can pretty well tell how long it's going to take.. I base my estimate/price on $ 120/hr for multiple stumps... I have a $75 in-town , $90 in-county minimum and I'll do up to total of 20" for that..
> If a customer starts that .." Well I can rent one for"...or.." So&So said he'd do it for..." .. I just thank them for calling, hand them my card and move on... I'm not the BurgerKing of stump-grinders



Guess I need to spell this out. Customer does not need to know your hourly rate. You keep that info to yourself. You just give them the pricing. Your experience and machine do the rest. 90% of our hourly pricing is completed in 10-15 minutes of that hour . Your rate should cover your travel time as well both there and back.


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## Menchhofer

Menchhofer said:


> Guess I need to spell this out. Customer does not need to know your hourly rate. You keep that info to yourself. You just give them the pricing. Your experience and machine do the rest. 90% of our hourly pricing is completed in 10-15 minutes of that hour . Your rate should cover your travel time as well both there and back.


And yes, our hourly rates do include maintenance of machine, dumping, changing teeth etc. You young-in's have a lot to learn...just keep on charging by the inch and remove the debris at 1/2 the removal cost. I am laughing all the way to the bank.


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## 066blaster

How can you give an estimate if you charge by the hour? You can use what you want per hour as a reference and charge accordingly. My customers want to know what it's gonna cost before I start. This pretty much goes for all lawn and landscape services. I give a price and try to do it as quick as possible.


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## Menchhofer

I think you answered your own question.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## 066blaster

Menchhofer said:


> I think you answered your own question.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


It was more of a statement then a question


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## howel07264

Topbuilder said:


> I hear ya. But, I'm not running a 7015TRX either. These 20 + jobs are not my core business. I'm mainly doing residential 2 here 5 there type of thing. When we get to the 100 degree mark I refer them to the guys with larger machines.
> You "by the inch" guys still puzzle me. You see by the #s the larger the stump, the less you make. Just making it easy to bid makes it worth it or I guess the majority of your work is done on the smaller/higher profit stumps and it all works out...
> If the market accepts that $2 per inch is a good price for a 24" stump then :
> 
> 24" stump = $48, or .1061 cents per square inch of surface area (for all stump sizes)
> 36 = 107.98
> 48 = 191.96
> 60 = 299.95
> 72 = 431.93
> 84 = 587.90
> 
> What the same stumps look like at $2 per inch:
> 
> 24" = $48-------------------.1061 cents per square inch
> 36 = 72----------------------.0707
> 48 = 96----------------------.0530
> 60 = 120--------------------.0424
> 72 = 144--------------------.0353
> 84 = 168--------------------.0303
> 
> Now granted that suposses that every stump is a the same distance out of the ground, same dirt crown, same amount of roots and each one is a perfect circle...it will never happen. But you would agree the larger the stump, generally the worse all of those conditions get.





Topbuilder said:


> I hear ya. But, I'm not running a 7015TRX either. These 20 + jobs are not my core business. I'm mainly doing residential 2 here 5 there type of thing. When we get to the 100 degree mark I refer them to the guys with larger machines.
> You "by the inch" guys still puzzle me. You see by the #s the larger the stump, the less you make. Just making it easy to bid makes it worth it or I guess the majority of your work is done on the smaller/higher profit stumps and it all works out...
> If the market accepts that $2 per inch is a good price for a 24" stump then :
> 
> 24" stump = $48, or .1061 cents per square inch of surface area (for all stump sizes)
> 36 = 107.98
> 48 = 191.96
> 60 = 299.95
> 72 = 431.93
> 84 = 587.90
> 
> What the same stumps look like at $2 per inch:
> 
> 24" = $48-------------------.1061 cents per square inch
> 36 = 72----------------------.0707
> 48 = 96----------------------.0530
> 60 = 120--------------------.0424
> 72 = 144--------------------.0353
> 84 = 168--------------------.0303
> 
> Now granted that suposses that every stump is a the same distance out of the ground, same dirt crown, same amount of roots and each one is a perfect circle...it will never happen. But you would agree the larger the stump, generally the worse all of those conditions get.


 THIS WORKS FOR ME AND SAVES ME HOURS OF DRIVING TO BID A JOB THAT i MAY NOT GET. WHEN THEY CALL ME THEY KNOW THE MEASUREMENTS AND GENERAL COST BEFORE THEY CALL. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS WHEN GRINDING MAPLES,MAGNOLIAS,BRADFORD PEARS WATER OAKS ETC. BUT I ALWAYS LET THEM KNOW BEFORE I COME. I ALSO HAVE A MIN. JOB COST BASED ON DISTANCE..10 MILES $125, 
10 to 25, $!50. BY THE WAY, A VERMEER 252 RENTS FOR $375 A DAY AROUND HERE SO SOMEONE RENTING TO SAYVE MONEY DOESEN'T WORK. .........FORGIVE THE CAPS LOCK,WIFE BEEN ON MY COMPUTER....REGAN


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## bryan_norcal

We charge $75/foot, but most folks have a 1' stump and want 8' of root around it gone too. We count the roots unless we are chasing a few strays. We also charge extra for haul off or if we have to cut the stump to a managable height. 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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