# Best knots for rigging?



## Kikori (Jan 10, 2007)

So I have perused The Tree Climber's Companion and The Fundamentals of General Tree Work but still would like a little more guidance on what knots professionals use to rig down chunks of wood.

Tree CLimber's Companion recommends clove hitch with tie off for smaller pieces and running bowline for larger pieces. In countless rigging photos that I have seen however, it looks as though there is a bit more going on. Could anyoone shed a little light on the subject please?

When I buy some rigging equipment, would any of you recommend also getting a few slings? Which ones?

My aapreciation goes out to all who take the time to respond.

Much thanks,
Kikori


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## Magnum783 (Jan 10, 2007)

I used a Half hitch or Marlin hitch followed by a running bowline on heavy wood. On light wood nothing beats a clove hitch. You can also use a running bowline on light wood too. I don't use any webbing slings but am looking to try some. I too will be following this post for I am still learning I really think we are all still learning when it comes down to it. We can always learn more.
Jared


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## Climb020 (Jan 10, 2007)

I use only 3 main knots for all of my rigging and they are the bowline, cowhitch and the timber hitch. The last one is only used for setting slings. Don't ever use the clove hitch just because 1 didn;t learn that knot until much later and was already comfortable with the cow and have hurd too many stories of the cloves rolling out. But as secondly knots for bigger wood I will use either a marl or a half hitch depends on how I feel about security.

As far as slings go I usually only use double braid slings. I hardly ever use webbing slings just because you cannot adjust the length .


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## beowulf343 (Jan 10, 2007)

Running bowline. Add a marl for big wood. 
About the only thing that I haven't found a need to change since I started climbing. Different saddles, different ropes, different flip lines, different friction knots, but to rope something down-still use the good old running bowline.


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## clearance (Jan 10, 2007)

Running bowline most of the time to pull over tops, trees. I really like a rope snap tied to the end of a 1/2" rope for lowering down branches or little tops (I do not lower wood), I just wrap it and snap it, easy for the ground crew as well. Very quick, easy for everyone, way faster than tying and untying knots.


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## moray (Jan 10, 2007)

I like to use a cheap hardware store screw link (3/8 in or 1/2 in) when I have an eye in the end of the bull line. Clip the link to the eye, wrap around the wood, clip to the rope. Holds well even on small wood. For pulling tops, you can install this setup from the ground, much as you would intall a climbing line over a high branch.


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## Magnum783 (Jan 10, 2007)

In order to keep the clove from rolling out put to halfs behind it. That is the most useful easy to tie not I Have ever learned. Use it all the time. 
Jared


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## Kikori (Jan 10, 2007)

*Tying a Marl*

Thank you for the replies!

Related question. Does anyone know where on the net I could find a diagram of how to tie a Marl as a secondary back up knot to a running bowline? There is one drawing of it on the Sherill page but can't seem to locate a step by step diagram.


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## Climb020 (Jan 11, 2007)

Not sure if it is here but something tells me it is. Here is TreeSpyders page which is very informative. http://www.mytreelessons.com/


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 11, 2007)

i Must work on the vision of my web sight, thanks!

Properly, and i think what you mean; is how to make a marl not as a back up, but as a preceding function; that is backed up by the running bowline etc. this is done for lengthwise pulls on the spar, not perpendicular pulls across a spar.

i take it we all know how to tie a Half Hitch to precede a Running Bowline, Clove etc. *for lengthwise pulls*. Just take a Turn, s-lightly past it's own self and pull the ends perpendicular to the lay of the Turn. If you slip this off the end of the spar, it melts into nothing. Likewise it can be made in the air and slipped over spar.

A Marl is similar; only we make an Overhand knot around the spar, and then pull the ends perpendicular to the lay of the Turn. If slipped off the end of the spar, there is now an Overhand Knot in the line. If we did a series of Half Hitches and slipped them off the end of the spar, they all melt out, a series of Marls/ Marline Hitching would leave a series of overhand knots in the line. 

So Marls can be kinda troublesome, but hold better and lay flatter. 1 trick is to use a single preceding Marl and groundies slip it off end, then on return to climber the Overhand Knot jams into pulley, keeping rope from coming out and falling to ground. The closest i think i have to it pictured at MTL is to be seen in the differences between the animations in tying a Knut (Half Hitch finish) and a TK (Marl finish). Click the 2 self tending climber's friction hitches, the Knut, then TK, they show the finished form, then clicking the play button shows their makings. Purposefully set to be exact copies except the final phase that performs either a Marl or Half Hitch type finish, to accentuate the fact of their similairty and this defining mechanic. Also, this duplication keeps the filesize small in the FlashPlayer; new/free FlashPlayer8 required, becasue of the gradient shadowing.

1 key thing here, usually not mentioned; is that a Running Bowline, Bowline, Clove etc. are mechanically meant to pull across/perpendicular to spar; this way the Standing Part that is pulled is inline with the back of the line on the backside of the spar. Pulling rope inline with itself; gives direct force, not leveraged against itself. Now if we pull lengthwise down the spar, then the Running Bowline's etc. Standing Part that you pull is not inline, but angled from the back of the loop on the backside of the spar; so this system is not inline with itself, but leveraged against itself. The preceding HalfHitch or Marl makes this more of an proper inline force on a lengthwise pull on spar. In the "Ashley Book of Knots" knotting bible, bowlines, timbers, cloves etc. to grab spar perpendicular are in 1 chapter, then in the next chapter lengthwise pulls are noted as the hardest angle to secure to, and the knots are upgraded with preceding halfs to make a timber into killick etc.

Note that though it would seem that a Clove satisfies this lengthwise pull formula, it does not, for the lenght between the '2 opposing halfs' is not a straight but a slanted one; also the first lifts up when loaded, to lift off the 2nd too!

My favorite rigging knot is a DBY-Double Bowline with Yosemite Tie Off. The 2 rings make it a Double/ Mountaineering/ Round Turn Bowline for extra grip/security on itself and soften the arc of bend in the Standing Part to make it more stronger/efficient/ retain more of the rope tensile strength. The Yosemite tie off is taking the tail and feeding it up the Standing Part, this gives more security, as well as 'cleans up the eye'(which is really handy not having tail in the way every time you link krab into it etc.). i have maid it so many times; it floats in my hand easily, and i put together this movie clip of making DBY behind my back some years ago, to get more people to use it. One advantage is that you can make the knot half way, wait for line to be slung to you, truck hitch backed up to you etc. then finish by placing line around host rope/ball hitch etc. and reeving thru slip knot, then pulling into place. This is also called a slip knot method of making a bowline (can be applied to single bowline) and also a Climber's Bowline, because if you were stranded on side of mountain they would lower line to you from overhead cliff or helicopter and you'd work line around and tie to yourself with this method in 2 parts, keeping one hand holding on to mountain. There is another 1 hand bowline method made popular in a Paul Newman movie, but this slip knot method works better with double bowline and also you could fall at end and just hold on and it sets itself proper. It isn't so hard, no magic to it; if'n ya look real closely you can witness my fingers never even leave my hands!:hmm3grin2orange:

Truly a great knot in our lines IMLHO(In my lowly humble opinion). Knots are mechanics in their making and then the way we apply them as 2 separate sciences to apply. These are the Nature of them; as it says in my sig "Nature to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon; the father of inductive reasoning who gave us the scientific view of Nature and Natural forces. To command these forces in the pwoerful magic machines made with rope as the device; we must obey their principals as any other.


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## Kikori (Jan 11, 2007)

TreeSpyder,

Thank you for your informative, enlightening, and in-depth response. Before reading it I was unaware that the double bowline was designed to rig wood perpendicular to the spar, but thanks to your wise words I can grasp this now. 

So in rigging vertical wood, you would use the double bowline with Yosemite tie-off with preceding marl/s? The malrs cinch down on the vertical piece and the DBY acts as the main attachment on the bottom? 

Also, I can see how slipping the DBY over an already cut vertical piece would work quite easily. Is it easy to tie the DBY on to a vertical tight enough to safely rig down? Is this the same set up (DBY and Marls) that you used while rigging down the vertical piece on the video on your website? 

Thanks again,

Eric


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks, the Running DBY replaces the Running Bowline; i use it a lot for bigger stuff; not jsut a DBY by itself to load. i'll place the rings of the DBY and HH/Marl at imperfections/ swells or cut my own. Otherwise i just keep a DBY in the end of the line with a steel krab to double as way to hook to belt and throwing weigth. For most stuff ~300# more or less; i use a sling and krab set choked to load and then hooked to the DBY eye that i use kinda like a temporary eye instead of an eye splice.

Not sure which video you mean!



The ArborMaster Rigging Article is worthy of a note here; it does show a Marl/ Half Hitch Comparison as precedants to a Running Bowline. It is on my Knot and Knot Research Page that is filled with all kinds of goodies!

Also notice to me a Square knot is kinda a jam; and you place the equal and opposite pulls of the Standing Parts against each other; but not as a bend; only as a knot to self and laying agianst something to keep it square/stabilized. When we go to make a SheetBend; the line feeds not to the Standing Part of the bight, but rather the Working End/Bitters side to make the Hitch with. With the simple jam of the Square, this would make a Thief and slip away as just a bight to bight configuration ; but the Sheet upgrades that to one of the bights making a Hitch/Half Hitch. Now that we have a lock, we place the start of the lock on the greatest reduced pull of the Bitters for most security. A Bowline is just a SheetBend to self; to form eye; so the initiating pull from the Standing Part goes to the Bitters/ the tail should end up inside the eye of the Bowline (before and Y tie off) for this function. The trap of the Bowline is best if the Bitters/ tail is inside the eye; for having the tail outside is like tieing the SheetBend wrong/less secure / "Left Handed"; whereby the Standing Part of the Hitch side wraps around the Standing Part of the bight side first (wrongway); which is right for a Square, but wrong for a SheetBend/Bowline class. Notice that in the Square, SheetBend and Simple Simon, the tails end up on the same side as a mnemonic.


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## Kikori (Jan 12, 2007)

*Video*

The video that I was referring to is the "caught on camera" segment of your "Tree Work" section. In it you are rigging down vertical pieces. After closer inspection I can see that you used an eye connected with a timber hitch backed up with a succession of half hitches. 

I will practice tying a running DBY to put this method into use. Thank you for all the resources. Your page is a gold mine!


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