# How many logs will fit on log truck?



## woodchuckerwood

I am new to logging, and will start in a couple of months. I have a lot of large red oak trees, that are about 22" by 45 feet to first branch. Trees maintain close to same gurth most of the way to top of tree. The online calculator said about 1180 bf with international scale. I was told a log truck will hold 4000-5000 bf. If this is true, I would only need 5 trees to make load, does this sound wright?


Thanks


----------



## Gologit

woodchuckerwood said:


> I am new to logging, and will start in a couple of months. I have a lot of large red oak trees, that are about 22" by 45 feet to first branch. Trees maintain close to same gurth most of the way to top of tree. The online calculator said about 1180 bf with international scale. I was told a log truck will hold 4000-5000 bf. If this is true, I would only need 5 trees to make load, does this sound wright?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Most logging trucks load to a maximum gross weight, whatever is permitted in your area. If they have onboard scales you should be able to get a decent load on.

Board feet is, in a way, secondary when you're trying to max out a load. You try for all you can get, legally, but the gross weight determines a max load.

When your load gets to the mill you might find out that your scale and the mill scale are two different things. Keep an eye on that.


----------



## Oldtimer

It takes one HELL of a big tall oak tree to get 1100 bf in one tree. Not saying there's no such thing, but I have never seen it here in NH.

A tri-axle log truck will take 3500-3800 BF of oak and be "legal" weight or even a bit over.

Take some pictures of the trees with an object in front for scale....I know they get big down your way, but 1100 per tree is some spectacular oak...I'd like to see it.

Up here, on average, I send out 75-80 oak logs on a tri-axle log truck, and the wood is 12" to 20" on the small end, 8', 9', and 10' long logs with the odd 12'-14' log tossed in.
Wood the size you describe would take 45- 65 logs.
If you are cutting your own wood for market (?) first go get tight with the scaler at the mill you will sell to. Get a schooling on what specs they want. You make or break pay-day with how you cut the wood up on the landing.


----------



## slowp

It varies by region. Out here, we have the piggyback log trucks. They go by weight. My job required me to guestimate how much board feet they would haul the next month, if the timber was paid by the MBF or thousand bd. feet. I figured 4.7 mbf per load. 

Since the second growth has less defect and is fairly uniform, a switchover to paying by the ton has occurred. That varies too. I used 27 tons as a weight average.

I have no idea about oak.

In the olden times, the board feet hauled on a log truck greatly decreased on the days that the State Patrol brought out scales to check the legality of the weights. We didn't factor that in. Now the trucks have to haul longer distances where they will likely have to stop and be weighed, so they try to keep it legal.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

Oldtimer said:


> It takes one HELL of a big tall oak tree to get 1100 bf in one tree. Not saying there's no such thing, but I have never seen it here in NH.
> 
> A tri-axle log truck will take 3500-3800 BF of oak and be "legal" weight or even a bit over.
> 
> Take some pictures of the trees with an object in front for scale....I know they get big down your way, but 1100 per tree is some spectacular oak...I'd like to see it.
> 
> Up here, on average, I send out 75-80 oak logs on a tri-axle log truck, and the wood is 12" to 20" on the small end, 8', 9', and 10' long logs with the odd 12'-14' log tossed in.
> Wood the size you describe would take 45- 65 logs.
> If you are cutting your own wood for market (?) first go get tight with the scaler at the mill you will sell to. Get a schooling on what specs they want. You make or break pay-day with how you cut the wood up on the landing.



I am going to hire forester to mark trees, & when I talked to log buyer, he said he would come and give price on timber before I cut it. Is this a good way?


----------



## woodchuckerwood

Oldtimer said:


> It takes one HELL of a big tall oak tree to get 1100 bf in one tree. Not saying there's no such thing, but I have never seen it here in NH.
> 
> A tri-axle log truck will take 3500-3800 BF of oak and be "legal" weight or even a bit over.
> 
> Take some pictures of the trees with an object in front for scale....I know they get big down your way, but 1100 per tree is some spectacular oak...I'd like to see it.
> 
> Up here, on average, I send out 75-80 oak logs on a tri-axle log truck, and the wood is 12" to 20" on the small end, 8', 9', and 10' long logs with the odd 12'-14' log tossed in.
> Wood the size you describe would take 45- 65 logs.
> If you are cutting your own wood for market (?) first go get tight with the scaler at the mill you will sell to. Get a schooling on what specs they want. You make or break pay-day with how you cut the wood up on the landing.


Here is a couple of pictures, 2 foot level to give idea. 40' of usable timber.


----------



## wowzers

One problem they seem to run into over here, is with cedar they max out their height before they hit max weight.


----------



## Gologit

wowzers said:


> One problem they seem to run into over here, is with cedar they max out their height before they hit max weight.



Yup...especially if it's been decked for a while.


----------



## RandyMac

4


----------



## paccity

1.


----------



## northmanlogging

now I am west coast, so this may not be accurate fur you're area so hear goes, around hear when they scale the logs they measure the small end, then calculate a square down the middle of it and thats the board foot you get paid for. The mill keeps the rest...so a 22" log 40' long would scale out to 806. bf. Now if you were to scale it on the round (which is not correct) you would get 1267 bf for the same log hence some confusion. Brick top err... old timer has a point about knowing what lengths the mill wants, I ass-u-me if yer going with a forester you'll be going with professional loggers. or do you want to go it alone? If you go it alone learn the lengths! buy a spencer tape and don't forget snipe!!!

sew My Scale chart is home made, if the math is wrong its all me, couldn't find a real scale book until i got on here..


----------



## northmanlogging

back to the question, since us westies go with long logs... i.e. 30 footers or better it can take any where from 15 to 30 of the size logs you're talking about to make a load ish maybe more maybe less depends on the truck and the lengths ya bucked em at...


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Randy ; I miss shipping loads like that off the landing. A Bcyrus 30B line shovel and a 1 1/8 th strap on one end, the yarder on the other. Back the trailer under the log.
1 log loads with 11 and 12' bunks. Off highway Hayse, Pacific, Kenworth Brutes and Mack off highway trucks.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

northmanlogging said:


> now I am west coast, so this may not be accurate fur you're area so hear goes, around hear when they scale the logs they measure the small end, then calculate a square down the middle of it and thats the board foot you get paid for. The mill keeps the rest...so a 22" log 40' long would scale out to 806. bf. Now if you were to scale it on the round (which is not correct) you would get 1267 bf for the same log hence some confusion. Brick top err... old timer has a point about knowing what lengths the mill wants, I ass-u-me if yer going with a forester you'll be going with professional loggers. or do you want to go it alone? If you go it alone learn the lengths! buy a spencer tape and don't forget snipe!!!
> 
> sew My Scale chart is home made, if the math is wrong its all me, couldn't find a real scale book until i got on here..



That is what is confusing me, if that one tree is 1267 bf, & our logging trucks around here only hold 4000 bf, wouldn't that mean, I would only need 3 trees to fill the truck?
I plan on logging it my self, log buyer wants 8' to 14' logs.


----------



## floyd

A truck will hold up the legal height, 13'6" here & legal weight, 80K here. Add axles up to 105K then one needs overweight permit.

Depends on local laws. Depends on scales between the woods & the mill.

I used to skid alot of bug kill ponderosa. we called it popcorn. Always limited out on height instead of weight.
That is why Puget Sound Trucking brought chippers into Eastern Or in the 80's. Chipped bug kill Lodgepole in the woods & Ran chip vans to Longview I think.


----------



## Gologit

woodchuckerwood said:


> That is what is confusing me, if that one tree is 1267 bf, & our logging trucks around here only hold 4000 bf, wouldn't that mean, I would only need 3 trees to fill the truck?
> I plan on logging it my self, log buyer wants 8' to 14' logs.



When you talk to your forester, have him check your scale figures. When he sees the wood he'll be able to give you a better idea of what the bf/tonnage is. This is part of what you're paying him to do.

Also check with your log buyer and see how much trim he wants on those log lengths. Sending exact lengths to the mill is very important.

In the meantime, go back and read post number 3.


----------



## Gologit

floyd said:


> Depends on scales between the woods & the mill.



Sssshhhhhh!


----------



## StihlKiwi

Gologit said:


> Also check with your log buyer and see how much trim he wants on those log lengths. Sending exact lengths to the mill is very important.
> 
> .



How much trim allowance do you usually have on your logs?


----------



## Oldtimer

Those trees in the pictures will not scale 1100-1200 feet. They are sweet, very nice, but I would guess there's 450-500 board feet in each tree of that size and 40' of bole.
I wish I were a little close, I'd gladly come take a walk with you and give you a better idea of what's up.


----------



## northmanlogging

what kind of trucks are they using out there? is it the short loggers with the logs stacked sideways, or lengthwise? or long trailers stacked sideways or lengthwise? if its the short loggers are they using a self loader at the cab side or back of truck with another short trailer?


----------



## woodchuckerwood

northmanlogging said:


> what kind of trucks are they using out there? is it the short loggers with the logs stacked sideways, or lengthwise? or long trailers stacked sideways or lengthwise? if its the short loggers are they using a self loader at the cab side or back of truck with another short trailer?



The trucks are short, self loader with the logs stacked lengthwise, forester said 3000 to 4000 bf. They hold 7-8 cord of hardwood pole wood.


----------



## q-tip jr

here's some pics of some larger oak and some tulip poplar (grade log job) I finished a short time ago - the guards are resting on a couple buts that would scale about 400/500 ish feet, they're weighed as a load then stick scaled later on. the two bunks (19 logs total) weighed right at 80 thousand and scaled about 4300 (Doyle rule) the saw is leaning against a red oak was to big to move - had to 33' it and turn it around to bring it out, that load was 15 logs, 4 trees. Be real safe out there... good luck


----------



## northmanlogging

I was going to come back and use a bunch of math to explain it... but q-tip nailed it. just cut a couple exter it sucks to pay the truck to haul air and you can always get someone to cut the rest up for fire wood... but fiqure around 5.25 pounds per bf measured on the round makes a 16' 22" dia log weigh around 3300 pounds+/- a little for taper.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

q-tip jr said:


> here's some pics of some larger oak and some tulip poplar (grade log job) I finished a short time ago - the guards are resting on a couple buts that would scale about 400/500 ish feet, they're weighed as a load then stick scaled later on. the two bunks (19 logs total) weighed right at 80 thousand and scaled about 4300 (Doyle rule) the saw is leaning against a red oak was to big to move - had to 33' it and turn it around to bring it out, that load was 15 logs, 4 trees. Be real safe out there... good luck



So it took 4 trees to make 4300 bf.?


----------



## q-tip jr

woodchuckerwood said:


> So it took 4 trees to make 4300 bf.?



yup - a Very fun day - that big one was 3 tank fulls with the 395, 3 trips to get the bugger out with the skidder, when I can get an updated scanner I'll post a pic of a white oak butt log with almost a thousand in it, @ 2.00 mbf you don't want to crack or stump pull etc.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

q-tip jr said:


> yup - a Very fun day - that big one was 3 tank fulls with the 395, 3 trips to get the bugger out with the skidder, when I can get an updated scanner I'll post a pic of a white oak butt log with almost a thousand in it, @ 2.00 mbf you don't want to crack or stump pull etc.



To cool!
I know the poplar is a heck of a lot lighter than the oak, so I am guessing it is not goint to take too many of my 24" x 45' red oaks to fill a truck?


----------



## q-tip jr

I find the larger trees are always heavy, cut off a poplar log and pick it up away from the slasher saw and the water runs right out of it - in Maine a guy I subbed for had a tri-axel Ford LTL9000 with a loader and he'd always get 4 to 4.2 mbf (int scale) on a load - just checked a picture from back then he had 19 logs on, very large. Almost always 9 or so cord pulp. I'm guessing if you use your whole tree (woods run) and don't high grade the butt logs like I often do for a different market, you'll average 450/550 depending on taper-you can find a log scale and standing timber scale chart on line or pick up a scaling/cruising stick


----------



## woodchuckerwood

q-tip jr said:


> I find the larger trees are always heavy, cut off a poplar log and pick it up away from the slasher saw and the water runs right out of it - in Maine a guy I subbed for had a tri-axel Ford LTL9000 with a loader and he'd always get 4 to 4.2 mbf (int scale) on a load - just checked a picture from back then he had 19 logs on, very large. Almost always 9 or so cord pulp. I'm guessing if you use your whole tree (woods run) and don't high grade the butt logs like I often do for a different market, you'll average 450/550 depending on taper-you can find a log scale and standing timber scale chart on line or pick up a scaling/cruising stick



I think the hardest part is going to be cutting log into sections. My forester said that I some veneer logs. I will have to work with buyer to get him the logs he needs. My trees are like pencils, almost same diameter top & bottom.


----------



## tramp bushler

Nice looking wood Q-Tip. Is that a 281 or 288 in the red oak pic?


----------



## PARTSWOODCHUCK

If you have veneer logs I would have the buyer come and mark them into whatever length they need. Up here they are more than happy to send someone to the job to help in any way possible. 

The log buyer has your best interest in mind, the better the log quality the more $ you and the buyer make....

Not so much with the forester


----------



## q-tip jr

tramp bushler said:


> Nice looking wood Q-Tip. Is that a 281 or 288 in the red oak pic?



a few years ago, not sure if it's one of the 88's or the 395 32' bar that oak didn't even bounce once!

just took a closer look myself, looks like an 88, not so sure on the bar, maybe only a 24


----------



## parttime

*about 7000 bf*








she usually hauls around 7000, mixed grade logs.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

parttime said:


> she usually hauls around 7000, mixed grade logs.



What are thoes, 16' logs? Thanks, gives me good idea.


----------



## Oldtimer

Great pictures. I don't know the DOT laws in WV, but here in NH that truck would be forced to offload a lot of the wood and the driver/owner would have a 5K fine...way over-weight for our tight laws.


----------



## RandyMac

That does look a little heavy, it wouldn't fly here either. Highways are flimsy anyway.


----------



## floyd

Looks like WV gvw is a little higher/axle than Oregon.

You get weighed at the mill?

Anyone have scales on their truck around you?


----------



## Currently

Western part of Maine is all timberland with roads built and maintained by logging companies. When you encounter these guys coming at you, they have the right of way ...

Maine Logging Company | Logging Company In Maine | Pelletier Brothers Inc. SM | Discovery Channel's American Loggers

Scroll down and click on triple trailer link, my iPad doesn't do pictures very well. 

This is a triple trailer carrying 400,000 lbs. 

Needless to say, the don't go on state roads.

Used to do a lot of fishing in those woods, you had to abide by their rules to use their roads.

Also look at the double trailers used in winter months, link. Lots of people snowmobile in that area. Beautiful country but like better down here, don't miss the winters at all.


----------



## Oldtimer

Currently said:


> Western part of Maine is all timberland with roads built and maintained by logging companies. When you encounter these guys coming at you, they have the right of way ...
> 
> Maine Logging Company | Logging Company In Maine | Pelletier Brothers Inc. SM | Discovery Channel's American Loggers
> 
> Scroll down and click on triple trailer link, my iPad doesn't do pictures very well.
> 
> This is a triple trailer carrying 400,000 lbs.
> 
> Needless to say, the don't go on state roads.
> 
> Used to do a lot of fishing in those woods, you had to abide by their rules to use their roads.
> 
> Also look at the double trailers used in winter months, link. Lots of people snowmobile in that area. Beautiful country but like better down here, don't miss the winters at all.



I ride snowmobiles on those log truck roads in northern NH. I could never live where there was no winter, and I mean -20* overnights and 10' of snowfall a year...I wish it were 25* and snowing now..


----------



## paccity

1.


----------



## bitzer

To the OP- 5000 bf on a truck and pup. 98,000lbs is the limit here. I average about 65-70 logs per load, random length hardwood. I've cut several 1000bf oaks and they never look as big on the truck. They can tuck em right in. Your picture shows maybe a 400bfer. 

Remember you will always get less than anticipated when they scale it in the yard. ALWAYS.


----------



## parttime

woodchuck it's a mix of 8, 12 and 16's. The logs are scaled at the mill, only weigh the low grade and pulp. I don't know of any trucks with scales. The pup rig is good in tight places, the tractor can't make it to the latest landing, road work is in order.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

bitzer said:


> To the OP- 5000 bf on a truck and pup. 98,000lbs is the limit here. I average about 65-70 logs per load, random length hardwood. I've cut several 1000bf oaks and they never look as big on the truck. They can tuck em right in. Your picture shows maybe a 400bfer.
> 
> Remember you will always get less than anticipated when they scale it in the yard. ALWAYS.



That's what is confusing me, Had a logger of 30 years, & two forester's (one from the state) measure a tree smaller than that & tell me it was over 800 bf. I went online to woodweb to their log volume calculator & put in conservitive numbers of 20" dia & 45' tall with international scale & it came up with 985 bf, it it that far off?


----------



## northmanlogging

there is a difference between log volume and mbf as stated before the mill pays and measures from a square chunk down the middle, the rest if considered "waste" which means you don't get paid for it, which means loggers don't even think about it except in terms of how bloody heavy is this log...


----------



## woodchuckerwood

northmanlogging said:


> there is a difference between log volume and mbf as stated before the mill pays and measures from a square chunk down the middle, the rest if considered "waste" which means you don't get paid for it, which means loggers don't even think about it except in terms of how bloody heavy is this log...



Does a Biltmore stick measure volume or mbf?


----------



## woodchuckerwood

northmanlogging said:


> there is a difference between log volume and mbf as stated before the mill pays and measures from a square chunk down the middle, the rest if considered "waste" which means you don't get paid for it, which means loggers don't even think about it except in terms of how bloody heavy is this log...



Still confused? I am a custom woodworker, so I measure bf all the time. If my tree is 22" on small end & 45' long, so I took compass & drew a 22" diameter circle, then squared it off. It came out to be 15 ½” x 15 ½” squared, which is equal to 20 bf pre foot, x 45’ = 900 bf. Am I still wrong? I know I have lot to learn, thanks for all input?


----------



## northmanlogging

well yer math matches my math??? just remember yer not going to take a 45 footer to the mill down there so you lose a little when ya buck em down cause ya gotta leave a little extra and each log will be scaled. I do believe that they use the doyle scale out east? that could be the difference, out here its mostly the scribner scale (a few of the little guys use doyle). I would trust the word of the locale guys more than mine though...


----------



## bitzer

Ok so this oak was estimated at 1000bf standing. The defect in the back caused the forester to reel in the estimate some. It did have some heart rot and defect through-out, but if it had been nice and tight it would have scaled around 1500bf. It was 54" across the stump. The first buck at 8' was 48". I made 5 8s. I also snuck 2 ugly 8's and a 10' out of the top. If you made 2 16s and a 12' out of the size tree you showed you may have a 600bf oak. If the top doesn't get busted up too bad you may be able to get a couple of 8s and make up another 100bf or so. So I guess its possible. I look at those and think 500bf though. Also what was the motivation of the logger/forester who looked at them? The other thing is you will get more bf out of shorter logs. Less waste along the length. 






View attachment 248361


----------



## tramp bushler

Boy ssome of you make scaling a log Real difficult . Get a Scribner scale book
If you have a good idea of the lengths they want. Get a belt and spurs and a Spencer 50' tape.
Take some sample trees, climb them taking length and circumfrence measurements. Convert circ to diameter and look up the scale in the Scribner book. That will give you the cylinder scale if there are no defect ..

If you go longer than 40' you need to use incriment scale.
A Scribner book is real handy.


----------



## woodchuckerwood

northmanlogging said:


> well yer math matches my math??? just remember yer not going to take a 45 footer to the mill down there so you lose a little when ya buck em down cause ya gotta leave a little extra and each log will be scaled. I do believe that they use the doyle scale out east? that could be the difference, out here its mostly the scribner scale (a few of the little guys use doyle). I would trust the word of the locale guys more than mine though...



I got 2 price sheets, both said international on them.


----------



## StihlKiwi

northmanlogging said:


> well yer math matches my math??? just remember yer not going to take a 45 footer to the mill down there so you lose a little when ya buck em down cause ya gotta leave a little extra and each log will be scaled. I do believe that they use the doyle scale out east? that could be the difference, out here its mostly the scribner scale (a few of the little guys use doyle). I would trust the word of the locale guys more than mine though...



If I'm reading this right, you have to cut your logs over length for the mill?


----------



## woodchuckerwood

StihlKiwi said:


> If I'm reading this right, you have to cut your logs over length for the mill?



At least 6".


----------



## StihlKiwi

woodchuckerwood said:


> At least 6".



That seems like a lot to me. How do the mills justify that?


----------



## Oldtimer

StihlKiwi said:


> That seems like a lot to me. How do the mills justify that?



Hardwoods will check on the ends, worse in summer, but they will do it year round. The trim allows for a full length board. Right now, if you cut a nice white ash log here....it will crack at least 6", and I have seen them split entirely into 2 sections. Sounds crazy, but it's true.

Bitzer, that big oak went through a fire?


----------



## Oldtimer

Chucker, not to be a dub, but you know how to get those big oaks down without splitting them or pulling tails? Just wondering how much of this you have done?


----------



## StihlKiwi

Oldtimer said:


> Hardwoods will check on the ends, worse in summer, but they will do it year round. The trim allows for a full length board. Right now, if you cut a nice white ash log here....it will crack at least 6", and I have seen them split entirely into 2 sections. Sounds crazy, but it's true.
> 
> Bitzer, that big oak went through a fire?



Thanks for that, now that you say it it obvious but the hardwood checking thing never even crossed my mind. Not something we have to deal with much down here.

I guess that would mean you're better off cutting longer logs, less saleable volume wasted that way


----------



## woodchuckerwood

Oldtimer said:


> Chucker, not to be a dub, but you know how to get those big oaks down without splitting them or pulling tails? Just wondering how much of this you have done?



I have cut firewood for 35 years, & dont ever remember a tree splitting or pulling tails. Never really cared because it was firewood. Now I care, all will go to hell hahaha? Forester was looking at all my stumps and said I was cutting too big of notch and was cutting too much, not leaving much of a hinge? will take any advice thoe. My big red oaks are real bushy at top.


----------



## Oldtimer

StihlKiwi said:


> Thanks for that, now that you say it it obvious but the hardwood checking thing never even crossed my mind. Not something we have to deal with much down here.
> 
> I guess that would mean you're better off cutting longer logs, less saleable volume wasted that way



The mills we send to here prefer 10'6" if they can get it. After that, it's 9'6". Pallet makes no difference. I only worry about sending 9 or 10 foot logs when it is (or damn well should be!) Veneer. Sawlog and pallet I cut for max scale and or least amount of wasted wood. No sense in cutting a 10' sawlog sending 3' of sound log in for pulp. So I'd cut a 12.


----------



## Oldtimer

woodchuckerwood said:


> I have cut firewood for 35 years, & dont ever remember a tree splitting or pulling tails. Never really cared because it was firewood. Now I care, all will go to hell hahaha? Forester was looking at all my stumps and said I was cutting too big of notch and was cutting too much, not leaving much of a hinge? will take any advice thoe. My big red oaks are real bushy at top.



I'll get hell for telling you this, but with top grade oak I'd rather cut it right off the stump than split it or turn a veneer log into pallet with a huge 2' tail pulled out.
I always cut my oaks to go the way it's leaning anyway, so cutting it nearly off the stump isn't as bad as it would be otherwise..

Cut a 1/3 notch, I never worry about a wide face myself, some guys start the top notch cut 18" above the base..never saw the need.
I always try to make my cuts on big oak go slightly down into the center of the stump, so when the tree is on the ground the butt has a bit of "cone" end on it..this in my experience lets the tree break cleaner, any tail usually gets pulled out of the stump rather than the log..
Bore deeeep into the center.
Side cut till it wants to pinch...I will admit I pinch my bar a lot..Handy to have the skidder nearby...
Back-cut 1/2" above the notch base, and cut evenly and as fast as the saw will let you.
A SHARP saw makes better oak logs.

When it's on it's way, get out of dodge. 

And, by all means, *never take any advice that makes you feel unsafe*. That log is not worth your life.


----------



## bitzer

Oldtimer said:


> Hardwoods will check on the ends, worse in summer, but they will do it year round. The trim allows for a full length board. Right now, if you cut a nice white ash log here....it will crack at least 6", and I have seen them split entirely into 2 sections. Sounds crazy, but it's true.
> 
> Bitzer, that big oak went through a fire?



I guess I don't know for sure, but it looked like it grew up next to another tree. The landowner counted 165 rings and he still had a foot to go in the middle that he couldn't count so that tree had put its time in. There were 5 of them like that on that job. 

To the OP- bore out your heart wood across the hinge. That and lay your forks flat if you can. Red oak tops are pretty easy to bust up which will split into the last log. Reds are pretty forgiving at the stump as far as a fat hinge. You really don't need much hinge if laying with the lean, but thats not always the best way. Think constant movement of the butt over the face when the tree is going over. This will minimize your fiber pull. Narrow faces with a snipe will save a lot of cutting, pinching, and pulling. 

8" of trim on 8'ers here and 6" of trim on 10s, 12s, 14s, and 16s. 4" min. accepted.


----------



## northmanlogging

around here its 6" min on short logs I.E. under 16' but everything else is 10"-12" for trim/snipe, and don't dare send in a log that's got a big fat face cut in it! They won't cull it out rite but you will lose a bunch on grade (hence the humbolt face). We leave so much for trim because the longer lengths mean more boards one 40' could potentially make 4-10's or 3-8' and a 12' the choices are endless...


----------



## woodchuckerwood

How can you tell if a red oak tree is a veneer log? Is it easy to tell?


----------



## Oldtimer

woodchuckerwood said:


> How can you tell if a red oak tree is a veneer log? Is it easy to tell?



Of every 10 you think might be a veneer, the scaler will agree on 2.

Oak Veneer goes by diameter, length, and quality. Generally speaking, it has to be smooth, straight, no seams, no catface, no bird peck, no mineral, and over 13" dia....and the bigger the better. Markets will determine what length you need to cut, here they want 9'6" or 10'6", with 10' preferred


----------

