# Fir vs Pine



## StihltheOne (Oct 4, 2009)

Okay, what makes a fir a fir and pine a pine??? Are they same family? Man this is one of those questions that I always wanted to ask, but feel dumb asking, kinda like when you have been around someone for a while and then you finally have to ask, "what is your name"? I can get a bit of douglas fir, usually all pine, lodgepole generally, the fir is heavier, seems more dense, makes good heat. But how is a fir tree different that a pine? Thanks


----------



## the westspartan (Oct 4, 2009)

Fir is a group of tree species related to pine, just as spruce, hemlock, tamarack, and other coniferous trees are. As far as what the differences are between fir and pine, I live in the east and we don't have much in the way of fir where I live, so I can't tell you what the differences are in living trees. Fir wood, doug fir at least, is a lot harder, stronger and heavier than most pines. I have heard it is fairly decay resistant as well and burns reasonably well for firewood. 

I am sure others will weigh in.


----------



## forestryworks (Oct 4, 2009)

one difference between fir and pine is their cones.

fir cones are upright and a bit fleshy.
the fir needles are mostly in flat sprays and shorter than most pine needles.

pine cones for the most part hang with their tips facing downward.
pine needles are mostly in bundles and can be up to 10in. long.

*douglas fir, however, is not a true fir. its cones are totally different from the cones of true firs.*


----------



## RVALUE (Oct 4, 2009)

Put a "cone" in front of any first grade class, and you will get 100% response "pine cone!" You won't get _any_ takers on "fir cone".

Maybe some of my clients were right when they said "dug fern".


----------



## MR4WD (Oct 4, 2009)

StihltheOne said:


> Okay, what makes a fir a fir and pine a pine??? Are they same family? Man this is one of those questions that I always wanted to ask, but feel dumb asking, kinda like when you have been around someone for a while and then you finally have to ask, "what is your name"? I can get a bit of douglas fir, usually all pine, lodgepole generally, the fir is heavier, seems more dense, makes good heat. But how is a fir tree different that a pine? Thanks




Fir and pine are about as closely related as Oak and Poplar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas-fir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine


----------



## mikeinneb (Oct 4, 2009)

All pine trees have needles, but all needled evergreens aren't pine trees any more than all dogs are dachshunds. Telling pines from firs from spruces isn't any harder than distinguishing beagles from Bassett hounds from bloodhounds -- you just need to know how each one is distinctively different from the others. 

A distinguishing trait of pine trees is that their leaves (the needles) are bundled together, usually in packs of two to five. The needles may be long or short or somewhere in between, but if you find needles in bundles, you have a pine tree. 

If you examine a needle from a tree and find out that it's not round and not flat but rather four-sided, you are looking at a spruce needle. The color may range from dark green to quite blue, but if the needle rolls between your fingers as smoothly as a square wheel, it's a spruce.

If you try this with a fir needle, it won't roll at all because it's flat. Like spruce needles, fir needles don't grow in bundles, either. Like spruce trees, fir trees tend to be tall, dark and symmetrical. Like pine trees, some types of fir trees are used for Christmas trees. Spruces, however, tend to lose their needles too quickly once they're taken indoors, though their shape makes them good candidates for outdoor lights around the holidays. 

I think it has to do with the amount of pitch in the different woods..


----------



## Billy_Bob (Oct 4, 2009)

Fir when you cut it, haul it, split it, is "clean". Just leaves sawdust.

Pine oozes pitch (sap) all over the place even years after you have cut it. This gets all over EVERYTHING and is impossible to remove. Like truck/trailer bed, ground where you are cutting/splitting, bottoms of your shoes, on the dog, and all this will wind up in the house! (Remove with gasoline or from yourself/dog with non-chunky peanut butter.)

But fresh split pine smells wonderful in the house. And the pitch is great for starting fires. It is my most loved and most hated wood!


----------



## wood4heat (Oct 4, 2009)

I love the smell of pine. Reminds me of camping/ hunting in Central Oregon. Of course I use a wood stove and can't smell what I'm burning. Doug Fir burns longer, cleaner, and puts out more consistent heat. 

Anyway the reason I posted in here, what do you call the cone on a fir tree? My wife was asking me that just yesterday.


----------



## MotorSeven (Oct 4, 2009)

Informative first post Mike......Welcome.


RD


----------



## MR4WD (Oct 4, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> I love the smell of pine. Reminds me of camping/ hunting in Central Oregon. Of course I use a wood stove and can't smell what I'm burning. Doug Fir burns longer, cleaner, and puts out more consistent heat.
> 
> Anyway the reason I posted in here, what do you call the cone on a fir tree? My wife was asking me that just yesterday.



Seed cone.


----------



## ShoerFast (Oct 4, 2009)

mikeinneb said:


> All pine trees have needles, but all needled evergreens aren't pine trees any more than all dogs are dachshunds. Telling pines from firs from spruces isn't any harder than distinguishing beagles from Bassett hounds from bloodhounds -- you just need to know how each one is distinctively different from the others.
> 
> A distinguishing trait of pine trees is that their leaves (the needles) are bundled together, usually in packs of two to five. The needles may be long or short or somewhere in between, but if you find needles in bundles, you have a pine tree.
> 
> ...



Yes, as mentioned, good post! 

Check your User CP (right side the tool/options bar) , left you a little 'Welcome to the site' rep! 

It's a good fun site, glad you found us. 

Thanks for the best 'first post' I ever read here! 

Kevin


About Douglas fir, I like it as a fuel wood about as well as any medium-hot burning hardwood (i call Elm about medium-hot hardwood) , as Dug-Fir splits fairly easy, seasons well, burns clean and hot. 

As a structural lumber, while no professional proof, it seems about as solid as it gets for a softwood. Sometime this winter a friend of mine and I are going to deck his horse trailer with some CSM'ed Douglas-fir and treat it. I am looking forward to the task as it's fun to work with.


----------



## Austin1 (Oct 4, 2009)

mikeinneb said:


> All pine trees have needles, but all needled evergreens aren't pine trees any more than all dogs are dachshunds. Telling pines from firs from spruces isn't any harder than distinguishing beagles from Bassett hounds from bloodhounds -- you just need to know how each one is distinctively different from the others.
> 
> A distinguishing trait of pine trees is that their leaves (the needles) are bundled together, usually in packs of two to five. The needles may be long or short or somewhere in between, but if you find needles in bundles, you have a pine tree.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the site! I live in the land of Ever greens I prefer that term to conifer. Ya we got aspen willow and poplar but the main wood tree is the lodge poll.


----------



## Austin1 (Oct 4, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> Yes, as mentioned, good post!
> 
> Check your User CP (right side the tool/options bar) , left you a little 'Welcome to the site' rep!
> 
> ...


I am out of rep for you but my home has all fir floor joists a true 2.5x6 rough cut. You will laugh at me when you here this but a .22 long rifle will not shoot through them or it will just make it through.My red neck way of testing lumber.


----------



## Austin1 (Oct 4, 2009)

A side note to this post A small fir makes the best Xmas tree. The needles are soft unlike a spruce and h*** it just looks good!


----------



## Mr Goodwrench (Oct 5, 2009)

Around my neck of the woods the only thing we use Fir/Pine for is kindling:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Cerran (Oct 5, 2009)

I burn almost exclusively Doug Fir with a bit of Lodgepole Pine here and there and get great results on both heat and burn time.


----------

