# Logosol vs. Panther Pro



## Darowe (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello all, I have been looking into purchasing a carriage type CSM. I live on a farm with plenty of white oak and walnut, and as a woodworker hate cutting all of it for firewood. I have pretty well narrowed it down to a logo sol or panther pro mill, I would like to hear some advantages/disadvantages of each from those of you that have owned these. Any advice is appreciated. 
-Darren


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## OhioGregg (Feb 26, 2013)

Darowe,
I don't know anything about the Panther, honestly I never heard of it. The only Logosol that I have experience with, is the Big Mill Basic. It uses an 9' rail with brackets to attach it to the log, or attach it to a table, you make your self. It also utilizes their Timbermate jig, to attach to the saw, so you can then push it down the rail.

I have used it both ways. I like it on a table better. I bought it back in 2008. Think I paid about $800 for it. Not cheap! but a lot less than the regular mills. I made a bunch of Red Oak & Cherry lumber with it couple years ago. Since then, I have just used it to make a bunch of 10" square Basswood cants for chainsaw races at GTG's. Here are a few pics of making cants this past fall.























Gregg,


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## mad murdock (Feb 26, 2013)

Nice job on the table! Looks like you have a wooden version of the M7.


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## OhioGregg (Feb 26, 2013)

mad murdock said:


> Nice job on the table! Looks like you have a wooden version of the M7.



Thanks, I call it the poor mans M7.  I used the plans from Logosol for the table, but altered them a little. They used 2x6 lumber, I used 2x12. So I can stand upright and push the saw down the rail, without being hunched over. That is the big advantage over using the thing attached directly to the log, down on the ground. That gets old in a hurry! When your an old geezer.

Gregg,


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## Sawyer Rob (Feb 26, 2013)

Darowe said:


> Hello all, I have been looking into purchasing a carriage type CSM. I live on a farm with plenty of white oak and walnut, and as a woodworker hate cutting all of it for firewood. I have pretty well narrowed it down to a logo sol or panther pro mill, I would like to hear some advantages/disadvantages of each from those of you that have owned these. Any advice is appreciated.
> -Darren



With the quality hardwoods you have, i have to ask you... You do realize that by switching to a bandsawmill, every 5th board is FREE, because of the thin kerf, don't you?? I'm a woodworker too, and i hate to see all that quality wood turn into sawdust!

Starter mills or good used BSM's can be bought for not much more than a CSM and they will are much faster/cheaper/easier to run.

I'm also a woodworker and i've resawed on my BSM many times, so that's another plus...

That's something to think about.

SR


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## kimosawboy (Feb 26, 2013)

First off Sawyer Rob makes a good point about the waste, something to think about.
Between the Logosol and the Panther Pro I would go with a Logosol because it is more versitile, different bar lengths, lightweight, transportable...but on the down side it is slower to set up for your cuts and probably a little more pricey that a Panther Pro.
On the flip side with the PP, once you have it set up its a lot quicker to adjust your cuts but you are stuck with your width.
If you are just milling on your own land and have access to equipment to move material (and you have and idea of the size of logs) then you should consider a bandmill.
As usual it comes down to personal needs.
G Vavra


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## Darowe (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for the pics Gregg, I like the looks of that mill. Can you get extensions for it like other mills? I guess my only problem with a logo sol is putting a one ton log on an aluminum frame, but you seem to have found a way around that. As far as a bandmill, I have not seriously considered one, mainly as I haven't honestly looked at one for under two grand. While I am a woodworker, it is by no means an industrial setup, but more something I work on for some extra cash, plus I enjoy building furniture. For that reason the extra cost of a bandmill negates its advantages doesn't it? Plus, I will always be able to find use for a couple extra big chainsaws(plus they're kinda cool lol). What is a good website to find used bandmills for sale? Thanks for the feedback guys, it's appreciated.
-Darren


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## OhioGregg (Feb 26, 2013)

Darowe said:


> Thanks for the pics Gregg, I like the looks of that mill. Can you get extensions for it like other mills? I guess my only problem with a logo sol is putting a one ton log on an aluminum frame, but you seem to have found a way around that. As far as a bandmill, I have not seriously considered one, mainly as I haven't honestly looked at one for under two grand. While I am a woodworker, it is by no means an industrial setup, but more something I work on for some extra cash, plus I enjoy building furniture. For that reason the extra cost of a bandmill negates its advantages doesn't it? Plus, I will always be able to find use for a couple extra big chainsaws(plus they're kinda cool lol). What is a good website to find used bandmills for sale? Thanks for the feedback guys, it's appreciated.
> -Darren



Yes, The rail is the same one on their other mills. You can add to it, and make it as long as you want. I think they have 3' extensions, or just add more 9' footers. You can do 8' logs with this setup. I don't recall off hand what the log weight limit is on the other mills. They work by cranks, raising or lowering the log. With this outfit I have, the log is stationary, and you raise or lower the rail. The brackets that hold the rail have 1/4" increments, and want to make sure you have both ends set the same. 

I bought extensions for those brackets, so i could cut boards from the top on large dia. logs.
One thing I found real quick with the this Logosol, is they were designed to use the narrow kerf Picco (sp) chain. So the adjustments match the 1/4" chain kerf. All I have used is the Woodland Pro ripping chain from Baileys. The kerf width on that is like 3/8", so it throughs off the settings a bit. Like I can't cut 1" boards. Its either 7/8" or 1 1/8". LOL Not a big deal to me though.

I think the regular Logosol mills have adjustments down to 1/8", so that isn't a problem. I would love a band mill, or one of the bigger Logosols. But for what little I do this works nicely. When I mill some boards for wood working projects, I cut my logs to 6ft. Don't normally need boards longer than that. Plus it makes the log a little lighter also..LOL

Gregg,


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## Sawyer Rob (Feb 26, 2013)

Darowe said:


> As far as a bandmill, I have not seriously considered one, mainly as I haven't honestly looked at one for under two grand. While I am a woodworker, it is by no means an industrial setup, but more something I work on for some extra cash, plus I enjoy building furniture. For that reason the extra cost of a bandmill negates its advantages doesn't it? Plus, I will always be able to find use for a couple extra big chainsaws(plus they're kinda cool lol). What is a good website to find used bandmills for sale? Thanks for the feedback guys, it's appreciated.
> -Darren



Bottom line is, you can mill so much faster/easier with a BSM that you can easily sell a bit of lumber to pay the difference of it over a CSM. If you enjoy woodworking, you will love a BSM, getting all that lumber so "easily".

I reccomend you try one before you buy anything...

SR


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## gemniii (Feb 26, 2013)

Darowe said:


> <snip> As far as a bandmill, I have not seriously considered one, mainly as I haven't honestly looked at one for under two grand. While I am a woodworker, it is by no means an industrial setup, but more something I work on for some extra cash, plus I enjoy building furniture. For that reason the extra cost of a bandmill negates its advantages doesn't it? Plus, I will always be able to find use for a couple extra big chainsaws(plus they're kinda cool lol). What is a good website to find used bandmills for sale? Thanks for the feedback guys, it's appreciated.
> -Darren


random thoughts
A CSM is there for portability, you can move it to the wood. Have you ever tried one? 
How big are your trees? If they are over 28" you'll need beyond a basic BSM, or a CSM to halve them before you put them on the BSM. If they are 20" or less there are many small BSM's available
How often do you plan to cut? Once a month? Weekly? If you'll be doing it often you'll love a BSM.
How thick do you want wood for furniture? 2"? 4"? 0.25"? Although I'm sure others can I can't reliably make slices less than 1" easily with my CSM, easy with my BSM.

Now I'm not going to jump on


> able to find use for a couple extra big chainsaws(plus they're kinda cool lol)


,
Heck, I like to get my 4 stihls outside running for a tuneup session, the 088 singing bass, the 021 tenor. 

But cutting logs lengthwise is slow. You'll probably be good to average 10 inches per minute in the wood on a medium sized oak. Translate that to 12 minutes on a 10 foot log for ONE cut. My little WM10 would do that same cut in about a minute or two.

But then with the CSM after 2 cuts you get to rest because you need to sharpen the chain.

I'd advise get an Alaskan Mark III (36" plus) or build one, a 90CC saw or larger, a few chains and cut up several oaks. Then your only out a few Benjamins for the Mark III. I don't know anyone with a BSM that doesn't have a chainsaw.


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## Darowe (Feb 27, 2013)

Yes, I am aware CSM are highly portable. I've never had the luck of using one, honestly don't know anyone locally that operates any CSM, or bandmills for that matter. Most of my trees average 25", with walnuts being slightly less. I prob have a dozen white oaks that are upwards of 45". These trees are why i was shying away from a bandmill, itd have to be a big, expensive guy. I would say 3000 board foot of lumber per year would be enough for my small wood shop, not much by most standards. Just out of curiosity, if you use a bandmill often, why do you keep so many Alaskan mills and chainsaws? Thanks for your opinions, people on other forums are not always as welcoming.
-Darren


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## gemniii (Mar 1, 2013)

Darowe said:


> <snip>Just out of curiosity, if you use a bandmill often, why do you keep so many Alaskan mills and chainsaws? <snip>
> -Darren



I take it that's directed at me.

I've got about 400 acres of trees in Mississippi and 50 in Vermont. I'm figuring with the CSM I can go in and make the trees a lot smaller so I can process them with my BSM.

But why so many - 
I'm bored - here's my history - I wanted a 3 saw plan
In the beginning there was the 021, and life was good.
Got lot's of land in Mississippi, wanted to make deer plots, trails, etc and use the wood where I cut it for sheds etc.
Then I came to AS, and won the second place in a raffle and got the JD CS62, life was great. And I could mill so I got my first Alaskan Mark III. 
Then while buying the $90 chain grinder at NT they had the 3600 marked down from $200 to $50, too much of a bargain to pass up. Life was ok but becoming complicated.
Then I decided I needed more cubes before I burned out the CS 62 and bought my first 660 on Ebay. Life was better, but wife was starting to wonder.
Then the first place saw in the above raffle, the ported 660, came up for sale and wanted to be reunited. Life ok, wife starting to question.
Stumbled across a home to retire to in Mississippi, with LOT'S of big trees needing to be cut and 5,500 sq ft of shop space. The site virtually demanded a sawmill, bought the WM LT10 while on steep sale.
Then last year I'm looking thru Craigs list about midnight and see an 088 with lot's of plusses, INCLUDING an Alaskan Mark III for $450. Couldn't pass it up. Life is good but wife said no more saws.

So really I've only bought the 021, a 660 and my first Alaskan Mark III ON PURPOSE, The rest were deals too good to pass up. That's what I tell my wife.


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## kimosawboy (Mar 1, 2013)

" 5,500 sq ft of shop space" 


Now that.... is just not right!

:msp_thumbup:

G Vavra


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## excess650 (Mar 1, 2013)

I began milling with an Alaskan mill on a Husqvarna 272xp and quickly discovered that I wanted more cubes. I bought a Stihl 066 and had a BB kit installed and life was better. I won an old 066 in a raffle(backup saw), and then bought a 660 basket case as a project. The old 066 was converted to BB and then sold to the guy who put the BB kit on it(660 was the better saw). After deciding the Alaskan mill was too slow to make lumber (was fine for beams and cants) I bought a BSM. The BSM is MUCH quicker and wastes less (thinner kerf), but the Alaskan is waaaaaay more portable, and can handle the big stuff that the BSM cannot. After milling 30" oak/elm/wanlut with the Alaskan, I realized that the 066BB was being stressed, or just cut too slowly for my liking in the big wood, so I ran across a 3120 at an attractive price.....and so it goes. I LIKE milling whether it be with a CSM or BSM, but immensely enjoy cutting logs open to see what grain awaits! I prefer to cut slabs/cants/lumber instead of just turning logs into firewood. Slabs like this are the reason:






This is cherry with both crotch figure and curl/fiddleback. The color is natural and has only had Minwax tung oil finish applied. It is destined to become a live-edge coffee table.


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## kpantherpro (Mar 1, 2013)

hey thanks for considering one of my mills, you do have alot to consider when wanting to mill your own wood, mostly when I talk to my customers it's a matter of what will work for them and budget, a good used bandsaw mill can be worth it's weight in gold, but please have someone who knows a little something or use this forum if you find a bandmill, i've heard some real horror stories, also talk to these guys on here to see where they're getting thier blades sharpened or where to buy them in quantity, and i would say if you do see that as a route to go get a bsm that will be easy to get parts for and service.
now perhaps for now you just can't afford or are unsure if you'll be doing enough to justify a bsm then a csm may be the way to go, for one you can get a bigger cut quantity for alot less money, now the logosol is a great mill and I'm glad to see they help bring so many people into this wonderful addiction we all share. when it comes to csm's though thier are alot of design cosiderations to consider single clamps designs can cut wider slabs at times but can wander making for extra work of planing sanding, while double clamp designs are usually alot more accurate because the bar is secered at both ends,again it depends on the design, your budget, and how much you think you will actually mill.
anyway that you choose I wish you the best of luck.


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## Darowe (Mar 1, 2013)

Well thanks guys I appreciate all the input. Still Pretty well set on a CSM, I really don't think I will be doing enough for a bandmill. Since I have some very large trees I like the look of logosols big mill pro, plus you could use it like a m7 on smaller trees. But I will keep your guys' advice in mind before I do anything. Thanks all
-Darren


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## gemniii (Mar 2, 2013)

kimosawboy said:


> " 5,500 sq ft of shop space"
> 
> 
> Now that.... is just not right!
> ...







Yeah, need more.

But there's a 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment in the rear of the wide one in the center.


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## big mog (Mar 2, 2013)

just reading through this thread,I;ve noticed a few things you guys on the far side of the pond seem to get up to, you all deem to favour BSM over CSM because of less waste..??, how much do you loose when you plane the timber to get rid of the ripples caused by blade deflection, and just how portable are your BSM in rough going, I also noticed some one saying that they cant get reliable cuts under 1" with theyre CSM , I dont have any of these problems using my M7, with the logosol pico chain setup, kerf is 1/4" no deflection, and dead true, I am able to repeatably produce 1/8" thick slices (do this just to show the versitility of the mill), and because of its light weight, can carry it into the middle of the stand of timber I'm working on. As for the BSM being quicker, on the first cut, maybe so, but over several logs my M7 isnt far behind, and unless your using a machine with full hydraulics for levelling and turning the logs, can usually produce more quality timber. The other thing is how many of your BSM can comfortably handle logs of over20ft in length, or 30" dia easilly, and still be portable


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## scogar (Mar 5, 2013)

Hey guys, sorry for a slightly off answer. I went back and forth for years on what to get, whether to get, etc. Finally I had some trees that needed to come down and was tired of letting rot or burning./ Fast forward to this site and a lot of research I bought a Panther II from Kim. I used it last weekend. And I got to say I am very pleased with it. The total cost was under $200 and i figured hey I could burn that on a dinner.

I'm sure I did a lot wrong but i can tell you the learning curve was incredible. I went from mostly clueless in the am to pretty damn impressed with myself by the end of the day. This is/was standing dead pine and was meant as a test run or learning curve before i got through some decent wood - I reckon it's about 100 bf if I ignore that I cut it to 5/4. But as I saw above re: wandering of a bsm...there ain't none in this baby. I would think a few light passes through a planer or just a bit of time with a Stanley #5 would get me to baby bottom smooth (of course after dried).

I did this with a regular chain on my MS 460 sharpened to 30 degrees - as I also finally taught myself how to sharpen a chain during this experience (about 3 sharpenings although it could have used 4 _well maybe 5_). This is wood that would have been disposed of - now it will not be even if it becomes a chicken coop.

So take my experience as a noob for what it's worth

thanks for all your insights. I'll be posting more as I think I've been bit

Scott

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## Trx250r180 (Mar 5, 2013)

i got this one a 16 foot ladder can mill a 13 foot log View attachment 282892
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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 5, 2013)

big mog said:


> just reading through this thread,I;ve noticed a few things you guys on the far side of the pond seem to get up to, you all deem to favour BSM over CSM because of less waste..??, how much do you loose when you plane the timber to get rid of the ripples caused by blade deflection, and just how portable are your BSM in rough going, I also noticed some one saying that they cant get reliable cuts under 1" with theyre CSM , I dont have any of these problems using my M7, with the logosol pico chain setup, kerf is 1/4" no deflection, and dead true, I am able to repeatably produce 1/8" thick slices (do this just to show the versitility of the mill), and because of its light weight, can carry it into the middle of the stand of timber I'm working on. As for the BSM being quicker, on the first cut, maybe so, but over several logs my M7 isnt far behind, and unless your using a machine with full hydraulics for levelling and turning the logs, can usually produce more quality timber. The other thing is how many of your BSM can comfortably handle logs of over20ft in length, or 30" dia easilly, and still be portable



WOW, i guess you haven't been around a BSM run by someone who knows what they are doing. Ripples caused by blade deflection??? I thought that Myth was put to bed long ago...












My LM2000 BSM will mill a 32" x 20.6" long without any problem at all, and i'll get a LOT more quality lumber out of that log than anyone will with a CSM, and i'd be willing to bet i'll get it out a LOT faster too...






SR


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## MHouse1028 (Mar 5, 2013)

i have both a turner band mill and alaskan csm...I love both and they both have there place..but i must say the most simple is the alaskan and for initial cost,portability,and qaulity..the alaskan. and for a guy just starting out you really cannot beat it and if you grow out of it you can always purchase the bsm...if i'm making dimensional lumber the bsm works great but i generally cut wide hardwood slabs i would rather use the alaskan..i run a stihl 084 power head with a 42" bar through hardwood and with a sharp chain i have no issues..plus the slabs sell like hot cakes and is where most of my profit is.some slabs sell for well over 100 bucks each and for ten minutes worth of cut time that ain't bad.some day i would really like to have a fully hydro bandmill tho i must say..if your just starting out then take the minimal approach and see if you even like milling wood then grow form there,


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## Dave Boyt (Mar 6, 2013)

A chain saw mill is a great way to get started. I sawed a lot of boards with mine, and still use it to break down 36"+ diameter logs that won't fit on the band mill, and if I need slabs wider than 28". In other words, it won't be a waste of money to get the CSM. I recently swapped my Husq 372 for a very used 2100 to put on my chain saw mill. Bottom line is, you use what works. Cutting 20' beams out in the bush isn't a priority for me. In my experience, the Norwood MX34 band saw mill cuts perfectly straight, as long as everything is dialed in right, and is at least half again as fast as the chain saw mill. More than twice as fast, if you include the time spent sharpening the chain. For me, if I've gone to all the trouble of wrestling a 30" cherry log out of the woods, and can spend another 3 minutes to get an extra $100 slab by making less sawdust, I'll go with the band mill.

Cherry 1
Cherry 2
Cherry 3

On the other hand, spending more time and getting fewer boards out of a log with the chain saw mill is far better than letting it rot in the woods! My advice is start out with the chain saw mill, and keep your eye open for a band mill on down the line, if you cut enough lumber to justify it.


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## lazyguy (Mar 8, 2013)

*Bandsaw Mill.*

I know the original poster is done with this thread. But, I'd like to add my input for who ever else is following this thread for what it's worth.

I'd put my vote in for the logosol Basic big mill system. I've never seen the panther in person.
What I like about the logosol, is that you can come in for both sides if the logs large enough.
Translation, you don't need to put on a 36" bar to break down a 30" log.

And it's very portable and storable.

That said, I'd still give a NOD, towards a lower end bandsaw mill.

I shopped for quit a while looking for used mills. And I'm sure I'm not as savy a shopper as a lot of guys here. But in my experience you can't buy a low end band saw used for much less than new.

Which translates into almost NO depreciation on a SMALL, decent built, name brand, bandsaw mill.
It seems to me to be a no brainer.

I have purchased a big mill basic and made the 2X table to work on it off the ground.
I still need to buy my stihl 660 for it.

I've already had 1 guy thats planning on taking down 2 very large oak trees this summer asking me to come and take the wood off his hands. My small 26" capacity bandsaw sawmill is NEVER going to handle these trees.

By the time you figure in the logosol at $800 and a new chainsaw + bar and chains at $1,200 you're almost at the cost of the lower end bandsaw mill. Hudson is selling an entry one for $2,600 that I bet blows the doors off most chainsaw mills. And for not much more $ you can buy a norwood or a woodmizer, next step up.

You should be able to use these mills and make ALL the lumber you'll ever need/want and sell it for $500 less than what you payed. Might even get lucky and sell for what you payed for it.

The chainsaw mill, will be 1/2 or less resale.
I do think a chainsaw mill would be great if you don't have room to store or a way to move a bandsaw mill and lumber. And a logosol big mill basic would fill this want very nicely.

Dave S.


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