# How mad would this make you?



## Plasmech (Nov 27, 2009)

To conclude a lot clearing job I've been working on, I rented a Bandit 90 chipper today. $205 plus a few extra charges. 

So this morning me and my guy, who told me he was ready and willing to work the entire day, pick it up at 7:00 AM. Bring it to the site, and back it in to the first chip site, one of many sites we'll be operating the chipper on the lot due to logistics. Then, he tells me he has a doctor's appointment. OK whatever, you'll be back in an hour I can deal with that. I do have a third guy by the way who worked all day. He had the pintle hitch on his truck, but I figured we'd be just getting finished the first chip site when he gets back in one hour.

5 hours later, after he did everything but go to the doctor, he shows up. During all that time, me and my man hace to drag brush a ridiculous distance because we could't move the chipper. Dude I was SO mad. I was like so mad that I wasn't even mad anymore. My other guys calls him and he (pintle man) thinks it's FUNNY. He thinks its funny. Let me tall you something, it was pretty ####ing far from being funny.

Sorry to drop this crap on you guys but I felt I had to share with people who would appreciate my story.

My heartbeat rate and BP is still up and it' 6:45 PM.

Oh and yes, we did try moving it by hand. My back still hurts, and she didn't move but 2 inches if that.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 27, 2009)

At the very least I'd refuse to pay him a damn thing for the day. Nor would I ever hire him again.

I have no use for inconsiderate asses.


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## trimmmed (Nov 27, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> . He had the pintle hitch on *his *truck, .



There ya go Plas, he was making a point and he knew he had you. Wash your hands of him and chalk it to lessons learned.


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## Tree Pig (Nov 27, 2009)

After the first hour I would have gone and got a pintle hitch and moved it myself but with that said I agree with the dont pay him crap.


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## lone wolf (Nov 27, 2009)

only happened to me a million times


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## computeruser (Nov 27, 2009)

You clearly know where his priorities are. I'm sure you can find someone who will approach your offer of employment in these difficult times with a bit more enthusiasm.


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## lone wolf (Nov 27, 2009)

oh i think i know him


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 27, 2009)

Sucks running the show sometimes, Plas. I feel your pain.


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## treemandan (Nov 27, 2009)

So... now you know what I mean that a rented chipper will cost you 400 a day huh?
Good thing you did the job with a rented unit though, I think you must have gobbled up some kinds of foreign debris in that hell hole. 
Now here is another lesson:
Do not ask your friends for help. You can offer them diamonds and gold but it ain't gonna work and sooner or later you lose your friends. IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK. See, I am not your friend, nope. I am more of a business associate or partner so to speak... I guess you could even stretch it to accompliss. 
Anyway, what did you get, and older 90 or the 90 xp like mine. I am glad to got it cleaned up and its good to see you learning. How is the yard you had to come through? Messy? You are done right?


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## Plasmech (Nov 27, 2009)

The chipper cost $205 plus tax plus a 10% security deposit that I don't get back no matter what (lame). It's a Bandit 90. It does not have the adjustable in-feed roller clamping force that yours has (the vertical rams). It does however have a sprig loaded clutch that works sort of opposite of yours. The feed rollers were rather dull and on many occasions I had to back stuff out and give it another go or two. Knives seemed OK though.

Going back tomorrow to finish up. Today we blew out a good 80% of it. A few more trees come down tomorrow, the tops go in the chipper, knucklehead takes care of the firewood, then I blow that joint.

I heed your warning about the friends. Plus I work with the guy at my regular job.

The property owner came out today, he was super happy. You should see how clean it looks now compared to what it was. That chipper ate a steads diet of VINES, locust, black walnut, and some misc. woods including mulberry. 

The way we came in was rather muddy but not to the point where we couldn't make progress. There were indeed several moments when I thought we were going to get stuck. But I had to 'git 'er dun.



treemandan said:


> So... now you know what I mean that a rented chipper will cost you 400 a day huh?
> Good thing you did the job with a rented unit though, I think you must have gobbled up some kinds of foreign debris in that hell hole.
> Now here is another lesson:
> Do not ask your friends for help. You can offer them diamonds and gold but it ain't gonna work and sooner or later you lose your friends. IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK. See, I am not your friend, nope. I am more of a business associate or partner so to speak... I guess you could even stretch it to accompliss.
> Anyway, what did you get, and older 90 or the 90 xp like mine. I am glad to got it cleaned up and its good to see you learning. How is the yard you had to come through? Messy? You are done right?


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## treemandan (Nov 27, 2009)

I hope you got some pics.


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## Plasmech (Nov 27, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I hope you got some pics.



Will take some tomorrow. Wish I had more "before" pics. Just call me Special Agent Orange.

Where were you renting a chipper that cost $400 per day?


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## fishercat (Nov 27, 2009)

*he'd be unpaid ...............*



treesquirrel said:


> At the very least I'd refuse to pay him a damn thing for the day. Nor would I ever hire him again.
> 
> I have no use for inconsiderate asses.



and looking for employment elsewhere.no excuse and i have no sympathy for this crap.if you want to teach him a life lesson,can hiss candy a$$.


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## treemandan (Nov 27, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Will take some tomorrow. Wish I had more "before" pics. Just call me Special Agent Orange.
> 
> Where were you renting a chipper that cost $400 per day?



I think it was a Morbark Hurricane that had the 400 price tag but the new 90xp 007 wasn't much less. The old 90 are much smaller.
I don't know why you didn't handle the machine with your truck , it should be able to pull a 90 @ 4500lbs. Low-loc it in the yards. I have to say I was pulling my trailer with a big pice of furnuture ( pulling total wiegt about 800) and my 4runner was cutting out when I gave it the juice. I think it has some kind of rev limiter on it or something.


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## treemandan (Nov 27, 2009)

fishercat said:


> and looking for employment elsewhere.no excuse and i have no sympathy for this crap.if you want to teach him a life lesson,can hiss candy a$$.



Ol Plas went and hired a guy he works his regular job with to boot. That's a tough one.
Back in the day I let my best friend cut with my big saw, I said, "cut to here ( and pointed to the dirt in the crotch) and stop, if you don't you will kill the saw, its late, we got this tree in the middle of the way and we gottsta go"
What do you think happened? And he gets all upset with me. Now, all sudden, I am the crazy one I couldn't believe it. HE was trying to make me feel bad.
They are called CIVILIANS. Keep that in mind. They are not the same as us. You should be able to tell the difference between them and guy like us. YA GOTTA WANT IT!


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## fishercat (Nov 28, 2009)

*that reminds me...................*



treemandan said:


> Ol Plas went and hired a guy he works his regular job with to boot. That's a tough one.
> Back in the day I let my best friend cut with my big saw, I said, "cut to here ( and pointed to the dirt in the crotch) and stop, if you don't you will kill the saw, its late, we got this tree in the middle of the way and we gottsta go"
> What do you think happened? And he gets all upset with me. Now, all sudden, I am the crazy one I couldn't believe it. HE was trying to make me feel bad.
> They are called CIVILIANS. Keep that in mind. They are not the same as us. You should be able to tell the difference between them and guy like us. YA GOTTA WANT IT!



i worked for a tree company an aquaintence owns.he used to work this real dumb liberal kid.

he somehow got a hold of my saw.so i ran over to him with the Log Rite.he say's "what's that ?"

i says,"it's a multi purpose tool.it's a log roller if you stop before the chain hits the dirt.it's nasty club if you don't."

he never hit the dirt with my saw.


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## treemandan (Nov 28, 2009)

fishercat said:


> i worked for a tree company an aquaintence owns.he used to work this real dumb liberal kid.
> 
> he somehow got a hold of my saw.so i ran over to him with the Log Rite.he say's "what's that ?"
> 
> ...



There was a time I would just let this kid take one off the truck. He came back a little bloody. I admit, I knew it all along but he kept talking " chainsaw expert" ( his own words) and acting like he could kick anybodies ass. I poured some wound care solution on it and put closed it with some butterlies, then pointed at the brush dragging to do and he hopped to it... literally. When I first started I told them I really had never run a saw like that before.


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## outofmytree (Nov 28, 2009)

Welcome to the "I run the show so I work longer and harder than anyone else" club Plas. It is a real grind some days. I vote with the pack and say kick this clown in the bollocks and then when he is writhing in agony on the ground say "now you REALLY need to go to the doctor". You will meet this guy again. He will be wearing another mask, but trust me it is the same clown. Work his ass off on the first day for chump change. If he turns up on the second day pay him a little more. Keep pouring hard work on him untill he breaks or untill he does as much as you can. I found my leading hand that way and boy does he kick ass on site.

Have fun on day2!


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 28, 2009)

I understand your anger at the individual, however it is only you that let him have you by the balls with his Hitch. 

Your the boss, you should have the equipment, including the hitch and the truck. 

You should be mad at yourself for not having adequate equipment. this guy evidently has little to be obligated to you or the job.

I can understand how someone would find it funny picturing your balls being held by pentile hitch man. 

Granted we have probably all depended on third parties, but ultimately it is only ourselves that we can hold responsible.


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## tree MDS (Nov 28, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> To conclude a lot clearing job I've been working on, I rented a Bandit 90 chipper today. $205 plus a few extra charges.
> 
> So this morning me and my guy, who told me he was ready and willing to work the entire day, pick it up at 7:00 AM. Bring it to the site, and back it in to the first chip site, one of many sites we'll be operating the chipper on the lot due to logistics. Then, he tells me he has a doctor's appointment. OK whatever, you'll be back in an hour I can deal with that. I do have a third guy by the way who worked all day. He had the pintle hitch on his truck, but I figured we'd be just getting finished the first chip site when he gets back in one hour.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the tree service plas, enjoy!


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## Plasmech (Nov 28, 2009)

I agree, it was my fault.

Another rant. At the beginning of the day yesterday, I clearly explained to him that I am renting the chipper, i.e. I am paying MONEY for this chipper. I get 8 hours of run time and have to pay for any damages. So, what we're going to do here BOYS and girl, is accumulate a big pile of brush, run it through, then shut it the frig down while we get the next pile ready to stop the hour meter. In fact we'll do better, we'll move the chipper to the next pile. I mean is this THAT hard to comprehend? Apparently so. I had to re-explain this no less than 10 times during the course of today and yesterday. Why do you keep shutting it down, we'll just drag stuff 150 feet over to it, don't worry about it, you worry too much. Um, do you hear that noise? That's the sound of a freewheeling chipper that's burning hours and diesel that by the way I have to pay for too. Christ.


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## VA-Sawyer (Nov 28, 2009)

I hear ya Plas, I really do. On non-rental chippers I do let them idle for a bit to warm up before cranking the revs up and shoving the wood to them. Will also let them idle to cool down before shutting them off, but I HATE the sound of a screaming chipper that is waiting on wood.
Rick


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## squad143 (Nov 28, 2009)

Hard lesson to learn, but part of the business.

It's difficult to do, but pay him for the time he worked and move on, you'll come out the better man.

If you want revenge, it's a dish best served cold. His day will come. He may need help moving one day, truck rented and all his friends will be there as promised...... *NOT*!


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## treemandan (Nov 28, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I agree, it was my fault.
> 
> Another rant. At the beginning of the day yesterday, I clearly explained to him that I am renting the chipper, i.e. I am paying MONEY for this chipper. I get 8 hours of run time and have to pay for any damages. So, what we're going to do here BOYS and girl, is accumulate a big pile of brush, run it through, then shut it the frig down while we get the next pile ready to stop the hour meter. In fact we'll do better, we'll move the chipper to the next pile. I mean is this THAT hard to comprehend? Apparently so. I had to re-explain this no less than 10 times during the course of today and yesterday. Why do you keep shutting it down, we'll just drag stuff 150 feet over to it, don't worry about it, you worry too much. Um, do you hear that noise? That's the sound of a freewheeling chipper that's burning hours and diesel that by the way I have to pay for too. Christ.



I am not laughing at you Plas, I am laughing with you. cept I am not really laughing.


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## Plasmech (Nov 28, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I am not laughing at you Plas, I am laughing with you. cept I am not really laughing.



Be glad you have the 90 XP Dan, the 90's limitations made themselves known.


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## treemandan (Nov 28, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Be glad you have the 90 XP Dan, the 90's limitations made themselves known.



I think the rental place up here charges more than the one around you cause you pay for damages up front. That means if you break it or something its covered. Its an extra 10 percent of the total rental cost. Don't be renting nothing with you being liable.If they make you responsible for damages by making you actually pay for the damage done rather than paying an upfront damage fee then you are really adding more stress to the job. I would never rent and be liable. If they ask if you want the ins just say " YUP! I am gonna need that." Total Rental don't bother to ask, you just get it and that is good.
I like to walk in there when I return an item and scream " I just broke the #### outta your machine! See ya, bye!".
Once I rented this wierd brush cutter and snapped the trans in half when I smacked a rock ( dam thing should be able to take that I think), gear oil everywhere. I just proudly took it back and decreed it wasn't my my problem.
The I dropped the RG50 off the trailer cause the High/low speed button is right there by the controls and I didn't realize I hit it when I had it low to get it on.
Once I rolled a grinder off a high curb, completly upside down. It hydrolocked so I took it back and said it was a spark plug wire.

On one of the old 90's they rent up there the disc cover hinge has been replace with some kind of door hinge you would buy at the hardware store. It ain't even on there straight and they used a few different methods of attaching it.


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## tomtrees58 (Nov 28, 2009)

call a tree service next time tom trees:agree2:


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## John464 (Nov 28, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> call a tree service next time tom trees:agree2:



ha ya for real. dragging brush on a lot clearing job? who does that? you should of rented the bobcat too. let me guess you threw the wood in a pickup(without a hitch) in 18" rounds? and just cut the underbrush/vines so they all come back with vigor next spring?

sounds like you are in over your head. now you gotta go back? how much land did you clear? how did you get this job?

lot clearing with a rented Bandit 90 with no truck or hitch to tow it. WTF


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## smilin possum (Nov 28, 2009)

All I'm going to say is when he got back then he would have gone to the Dr. again to get my foot and ankle out of his rectum with no numbing stuff.


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## treemandan (Nov 28, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> call a tree service next time tom trees:agree2:



I about crapped when i saw what he was up to. I actually advised him a rented chipper might be better for what he had in mind to run through it. I was a little hesitant to help him on this one but he did grab the bull by the horns and that is something.


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## Small Job Tim (Nov 29, 2009)

hey plas,
hire me, I'll show up and I don't go to doctors, so that wont be an issue....and since I'm used to doing jobs that seem never ending, I'd be perfect for the job!!


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## Plasmech (Nov 29, 2009)

John464 said:


> ha ya for real. dragging brush on a lot clearing job? who does that? you should of rented the bobcat too. let me guess you threw the wood in a pickup(without a hitch) in 18" rounds? and just cut the underbrush/vines so they all come back with vigor next spring?
> 
> sounds like you are in over your head. now you gotta go back? how much land did you clear? how did you get this job?
> 
> lot clearing with a rented Bandit 90 with no truck or hitch to tow it. WTF



Why even make a post like this.

In other news, everybody has to start somewhere. Businesses to not come out of the gate with $250,000 worth of equipment.


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## capetrees (Nov 29, 2009)

I hear ya there on the equpipment issues but there are basics you need to invest in. You don't have a truck of some sort with a hitch to the rear? That's a must. Bite the bullet and get one. The chipper can come later. Buy used equipment and after running it for along time, reinvest to an upgrade. Used equipment is out there and if you know what you're looking at and for, you'll get a nice piece of equipment. And do keep taking on the tough jobs, even if you do have to work that much harder to get them done. Reputation as a hard worker never has its downfalls. 

As for the lame ass "friend", :censored: pay him what you owe him but NEVER call him again. Let him know of course that you are working and other people are working with you but NEVER let him earn a buck from you again, no matter how bad it gets for him. That is unless he decides to work for free up to $205 first to pay you back for the rental costs that he cost you. :greenchainsaw:


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## Plasmech (Nov 29, 2009)

The job turned out really well in the end. What I started, I wad basically looking at little Vietnam behind this car wash. There was so much crap growing back there, all inter-tangled with a ridiculous amount of vines. Using the tools I had, which wasn't much, I cleaned the place up a thousandfold. I don't care if I didn't use a Cat D9 back there or didn't use a chipper till the end, what matters is that the customer is happy, it looks great, and its finished (finally). And the dude got a deal, believe me.


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## John464 (Nov 29, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Why even make a post like this.
> 
> In other news, everybody has to start somewhere. Businesses to not come out of the gate with $250,000 worth of equipment.



sure it has to start somewhere, but know what you are doing before jumping in. preparation, the right equipment, and proper management skills are what it takes to do a lot clearing job. having one guy walk off your job isnt the issue. this issue starts with the operation, id of walked away laughing too.


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## fishercat (Nov 29, 2009)

*you are right.*



Plasmech said:


> The job turned out really well in the end. What I started, I wad basically looking at little Vietnam behind this car wash. There was so much crap growing back there, all inter-tangled with a ridiculous amount of vines. Using the tools I had, which wasn't much, I cleaned the place up a thousandfold. I don't care if I didn't use a Cat D9 back there or didn't use a chipper till the end, what matters is that the customer is happy, it looks great, and its finished (finally). And the dude got a deal, believe me.



you have to start somewhere.i started with a 55 Rancher and a mid eighties Toyota pickup.i still have both.i know a few guys around here that have borrowed a ton of money and bought everything they could get their hands on.many are now out of business.one nut had an $18,000 monthly payment before he had any work lined up.he's gone.

keep it small.rent,borrow and barter if you have to.


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## Plasmech (Nov 29, 2009)

fishercat said:


> you have to start somewhere.i started with a 55 Rancher and a mid eighties Toyota pickup.i still have both.i know a few guys around here that have borrowed a ton of money and bought everything they could get their hands on.many are now out of business.one nut had an $18,000 monthly payment before he had any work lined up.he's gone.
> 
> keep it small.rent,borrow and barter if you have to.



Right on man. Ever see the guy on Discovery who logs with mules? He's either a genius or an idiot and I guarantee he's no idiot. He's making money with almost no overhead.


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## fishercat (Nov 29, 2009)

*he's no idiot!*



Plasmech said:


> Right on man. Ever see the guy on Discovery who logs with mules? He's either a genius or an idiot and I guarantee he's no idiot. He's making money with almost no overhead.



i would gladly trade 1,000 Obama loving liberals for 1 mule.i know the mule would be more productive.


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## Plasmech (Nov 29, 2009)

fishercat said:


> i would gladly trade 1,000 Obama loving liberals for 1 mule.i know the mule would be more productive.



Glad to see our political view are identical Fisher.

Just this past weekend this old hippie 'Bama loving misguided snot-faced bleeding heart mother 'heffer was up in arms about me logging out the property behind his house. I mean he was seriously upset. Well sir, I said, I have the land owner's cell on my phone. I'll let you use it to call him and ask if you want to purchase the land and along with it the trees. 

Evil.


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## zopi (Nov 29, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Right on man. Ever see the guy on Discovery who logs with mules? He's either a genius or an idiot and I guarantee he's no idiot. He's making money with almost no overhead.



I know a couple of horse loggers...it's bloody hard work and it requires skills not common these days...but to select cut a stand and not tear the ground up...no better way that I know of...

I prefer oxen though...lower overhead overall, feed bill is a bit higher, but the tack is cheaper...'specially if you know how to make an oxbow...

Don't sweat the naysayers. plas...they aren't likely to write your payment check this month...

concur with the used equipment post tho' there is alot of decent machinery out there if you know what to look for..


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## fishercat (Nov 29, 2009)

*look around for used equipment.*

we found a 2002 Bandit 250 XP with 1500 hours for $9,000.

it ran rough until i changed the fuel filter. after taht i tightened the belts and adjusted the bed knife.been running like a dream for more that a year. 

you can get those Vermeer 625s cheap right now.a lot of guys bash them but if you keep everything adjusted and maintained,they actually do a good job. ask Stihl-O-Matic.

they are light and two guys can move it around fairly easy. no pintle hitch either.i pull it with my 85 Toyota pick up.that's also what i picked it up with in Syracuse NY.


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## John464 (Nov 29, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Right on man. Ever see the guy on Discovery who logs with mules? He's either a genius or an idiot and I guarantee he's no idiot. He's making money with almost no overhead.



now see thats a company that has his mules, in this case equipment. and has help there to steer the mules. he doesn't do a job without his mules or employees. im sure he doesn't show up to a job without his mules or take on work his mules cant get through efficiently in order to turn a nice profit.

so what will it be next a chipper or a mule? LOL!

im sorry if I came across as harsh but I see too many weekend warriors underbidding jobs, with no equipment, not doing the job correctly the first time, and then making no profit. everybody loses.


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## lxt (Dec 1, 2009)

John464 said:


> now see thats a company that has his mules, in this case equipment. and has help there to steer the mules. he doesn't do a job without his mules or employees. im sure he doesn't show up to a job without his mules or take on work his mules cant get through efficiently in order to turn a nice profit.
> 
> so what will it be next a chipper or a mule? LOL!
> 
> im sorry if I came across as harsh but I see too many weekend warriors underbidding jobs, with no equipment, not doing the job correctly the first time, and then making no profit. everybody loses.





:agree2:, sound familiar uhh?


good post John!

LXT............


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 1, 2009)

Problem is when you hire Mules and they get pretty good at their job they can turn into Jackasses, Me thinks this is a common trait amongst the personality that makes for a good climber.


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## Garden Of Eden (Dec 1, 2009)

I did a job this summer where someone was "borrowing" my truck. So I show up all my climbing gear in a pontiac sunfire. lol You should see the Property Owner's face. I drop 4 black walnuts, a Douglas Fir, and a Large Maple. All before lunch. Come back 20 min later with another guy and the 3 of us limb and buck all of it, then start stacking. Got done stacking into the guy buying the wood's trailer the next morning. The rest of the brush, I called the City, and told the we had a huge pile, and they needed a grapple truck. Sure enough they came, and grabbed all the brush, and disposed of it, free. By noon the next day, no truck, I had all the trees gone.

Point I guess is, equipment isn't everything all the time. Sure there are tools for jobs. However, there's more than one way to skin a deer. Besides, in Flint, it's so bad, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who "cuts trees" for a living. I just refuse to go into debt for a business, or anything else for that matter. I'd much rather be a little creative. 

Thanks for listening, God bless,

Jeff


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## arbor pro (Dec 1, 2009)

That guy wouldn't even need to return to my jobsite. Gone for 5 hours... if he wasn't laying half-dead in some emergency room, he'd be fired. Period.

Second, I can't help but ask, didn't you at least have a second vehicle with a 2" ball hitch along??? Those chippers have enough hitch weight that you can hitch a pintel up to just the ball and SLOWLY move it around. I say this because I move chippers and stump grinders (with pintel hitches) around on a 2" ball around my lot all the time. sure, every now and then, the pintel pops off but, if you have the jack down and are going slow, no worries. 

Also, that's what the second helper is for - to stand on the hitch to give it more weight... 

I do feel for ya and would fire that SOB in no time at all but I also agree that you set yourself up for that one. Should have been better prepared and seen that one coming.


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## treemandan (Dec 1, 2009)

Once me and 2 other guys were setting up a tree with top rope and we were just going to cut it at the bottom and lower it. I had set 2 ropes for which to support the tree and direct it. I had been telling these bozos the plan and they seemed to be in agrrement so I fire up the saw and look to the one guy for confirmation, he nods and says " go ahead" so I look to the other guy and there is the end off the rope but there is nobody around.
We looked all over, I checked under the seat in the man cab TWICE! We keep looking and calling and finally called the boss to say the guy was just gone from the face of the earth. I mean he was right there up to about 2 seconds before I was about to make the cut... then GONE. 
He comes walking down the sidewalk about an hour later with a sno cone. He had walked about a half mile to the Wawa and another half mile back.


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