# ISA certified arborist embarrassingly easy.



## CanopyGorilla (Dec 27, 2016)

I recently took and passed my ISA exam without studying. I thought I may even fail the first time. Reading each question that was presented I was amazed at the simplicity. Does anyone else here feel more knowledge than that test covered should be required to become the golden standard of our industry?


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Dec 27, 2016)

All about the dues...


----------



## Pelorus (Dec 27, 2016)

Yes. 
The monster is always hungry.


----------



## no tree to big (Dec 27, 2016)

I'm a CA and I feel like I don't know much..... I feel that they teach you and test u on the very most basic things. The things that help you find a book that may or may not have the right answer.... 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Del_ (Dec 27, 2016)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I recently took and passed my ISA exam without studying. I thought I may even fail the first time. Reading each question that was presented I was amazed at the simplicity. Does anyone else here feel more knowledge than that test covered should be required to become the golden standard of our industry?



I've hear that it's been dumbed-down quite a bit from when I took it and passed on first try back in 1991. I was the first in my county and my business partner became the second one a few months later. I kept certified for 18 years then gave it up and it didn't affect business one bit. On the other hand it would have been nice to keep it up but I got pissed at the total number of CA's and the dumbing down that was happening. I still think the ISA is a good org but they get zero of my dollars these days.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2016)

it was pretty hard when I took it, failed the first time,
my tree worker in 1991 was harder, we had to spell,
Jeff


----------



## Zale (Dec 28, 2016)

They have dumbed it down over the years. I'm not currently certified because I don't need to be. Over the years, I've taken the test three times because I could never keep up with the CEUs. The last time I took it, I was drunk off my ass and passed with flying colors. I'm licensed through my state and that is good enough for the work I do now. In bid situations with cities and institutions, ISA is a must have to qualify to bid.


----------



## Jason Douglas (Dec 28, 2016)

Step in the right direction. Hopefully one day certain tree work will be treated like that done by certified plumbers or electricians.

All depends on what work you or your company will be practicing.


----------



## ATH (Dec 28, 2016)

It really is a "minimal" standard....Does the individual have a basic understanding of trees and their proper care? I would be curious to know what the pass/fail rate is. I know people still fail it. There was a prep course that a friend helped teach. A local guy who has been in business for over 30 years (and we all know does poor quality work) failed the test even after taking the course.

Even though it is a minimal standard, I still think it is valuable because it should ensure clients that their arborist is doing some continuing education. There is also the Code of Ethics. My disappointment with ISA isn't how hard or easy the test is, but that they don't push the code of ethics stronger. There was a town in the area that hired a company with a CA to do some young tree structural pruning. They topped all of the trees! It was reported to ISA who said they couldn't do anything because they couldn't be sure the CA did the work (they did have the bid/contract requiring that and an invoice from the company stating it performed as specified). I've heard similar stories as well. They need to enforce that or the standard really will mean nothing.


----------



## no tree to big (Dec 28, 2016)

I was one of three from my company who took the test at the same time I was the only one who passed. We all took the prep coarse, I was the only one who went to all 8? Classes but for the most part was a word for word power point of the study guide, huge waste of money to attend there were a few weeks that had a good instructor that used actual life experience to teach the class these were half way useful.. the prep class and study guide "is not intended to fully prepare you for the test" you are supposed to buy hundreds of dollars of books from who knows where to learn everything... there were questions that I have no clue where I'd even begin to look for the answer. Then there were questions I didn't know but common sense would knock it down to 2 answers then it was a guess from there or in some cases 3 answers were completely off in left field so obviously it was the 4th option.
But the test did keep two tards from being certified.. so in some cases it does serve it's purpose 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Dec 28, 2016)

ATH said:


> It really is a "minimal" standard....Does the individual have a basic understanding of trees and their proper care? I would be curious to know what the pass/fail rate is. I know people still fail it. There was a prep course that a friend helped teach. A local guy who has been in business for over 30 years (and we all know does poor quality work) failed the test even after taking the course.
> 
> Even though it is a minimal standard, I still think it is valuable because it should ensure clients that their arborist is doing some continuing education. There is also the Code of Ethics. My disappointment with ISA isn't how hard or easy the test is, but that they don't push the code of ethics stronger. There was a town in the area that hired a company with a CA to do some young tree structural pruning. They topped all of the trees! It was reported to ISA who said they couldn't do anything because they couldn't be sure the CA did the work (they did have the bid/contract requiring that and an invoice from the company stating it performed as specified). I've heard similar stories as well. They need to enforce that or the standard really will mean nothing.


Yes, this. I've seen guys on our city's CA list spike prunes. My goal is now board certified master arborist as there is only one currently in our state


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Dec 28, 2016)

Just costs money to play. My next business plan is to start a "certifying agency" for some poor industry


----------



## ATH (Dec 28, 2016)

CanopyGorilla said:


> Yes, this. I've seen guys on our city's CA list spike prunes. My goal is now board certified master arborist as there is only one currently in our state


I did BCMA a little over a year ago. I certainly see increased client base with the CA. I don't think that will happen because of BCMA...I actually thought about not doing the BCMA test because technically I can't call myself a CA, and nobody knows what a BCMA is. It was more of a personal accomplishment than anything practical. I will have to actually watch my continuing ed now. I had no problem keeping up with CA requirements, but this may take a little extra effort/attention.


----------



## Jason Douglas (Dec 29, 2016)

I hear you, I'm one of 10 BCMAs in the Columbus area. Not so widely known or understood by the public so its kind of a "who cares" cert. Very much a pat on my own back for doing lots of reading/research and having experience. If ISA pushed this cert program as "expert" it would be a better thing.

Something of a money grab but not nearly as BS as TRAQ. I didnt pay for the test but CEU requirements are much higher. I figured I get 15 CEUs a year from ISA and Ohio Chapter publishings so the rest can be made up at conferences or online purchased quizes.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 29, 2016)

CanopyGorilla said:


> Yes, this. I've seen guys on our city's CA list spike prunes. My goal is now board certified master arborist as there is only one currently in our state



Well, you do live in Montana!,
Jeff


----------



## DR. P. Proteus (Dec 29, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Well, you do live in Montana!,
> Jeff




If a tree is spiked in Montana... wait, what's a Montana?


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Dec 29, 2016)

Lol, well you live in California.....


----------



## Zale (Dec 29, 2016)

I'd rather live in Montana. Beautiful country.


----------



## derwoodii (Dec 31, 2016)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I recently took and passed my ISA exam without studying. I thought I may even fail the first time. Reading each question that was presented I was amazed at the simplicity. Does anyone else here feel more knowledge than that test covered should be required to become the golden standard of our industry?



i did mine in 2010 it was easy enuff to get a pass but was hard to get high % pass as the last 10 % of questions ramped up on topic knowledge or were worded in way that tricked the reader (me) I still enjoyed the study while much was obvious or a subject i knew i gathered few new ideas on the way and yes its $ gouge but the ISA arb magazine and quizz questions keep me thinking and current in skills and understanding. 

Do they still do 20 plants tree id? i heard had been dropped for me was 20 twigs and leaves of local trees placed on table none to hard but i was in another OZ country state than my own so there was slight variation


----------



## fireman33 (Dec 31, 2016)

I wrote mine a month ago and did better than I thought I would. I only read the study guide because I didn't want to buy all the other reference books the isa suggested to get, lots of extra $$ invested on top of exam fees and all.

I read the study guide 5 times to make sure I understood everything good and I'm glad I did. I found 90% of the questions on the exam we're not worded exactly as it was written in the guide so if you couldn't make sense of what they were asking you didn't stand a chance. Also I'd say 10% of the questions were not covered at all in the guide so someone with no experience probably would have to guess those. Although someone with no experience probably shouldn't be allowed to write. Interesting thread.


----------



## no tree to big (Dec 31, 2016)

There is no specific tree ID they simply ask about leaf shape and if it's serrated or not..... hell you don't even need to know the difference between a maple and an oak. If you know leaf carecteristics ur good, they want you to be able to use a flow chart to research species not know by memory

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Jason Douglas (Dec 31, 2016)

Right. The CA exam is not intended to be prohibitively difficult, but it should keep some knuckleheads and those not interested in learning out of the ranks.

More CAs also means that there are more folks having at least some interest in improving themselves and the industry as a whole. Not a bad thing at all really.

More certifications = more $$$ from dues and other purchases. $$$$$$$.

My only significant gripe is that the ISA doesnt seem to push their "expert" certs such as Municipal Specialist and BCMA. If most in the public are unaware, many assume any CA is tree expert and consultant.


----------



## Jason Douglas (Dec 31, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> hell you don't even need to know the difference between a maple and an oak


This is disappointing and frankly sad.

Has the exam really been dumbed down this much?


----------



## no tree to big (Dec 31, 2016)

Jason Douglas said:


> This is disappointing and frankly sad.
> 
> Has the exam really been dumbed down this much?


Yes sir! My test had three questions about leaves all of which were about very basic caracteristics. You do not need to know names. There was one question that had the Latin name but it was referencing some tree in Africa or some nonsense so good luck actually knowing that but the multiple choice made it very easy... it was something about a pine and there was only one pinus in the answers so..... guess which one I chose. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Zale (Jan 1, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> This is disappointing and frankly sad.
> 
> Has the exam really been dumbed down this much?



Yes.


----------



## Pelorus (Jan 1, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> Has the exam really been dumbed down this much?



YES. (I've done the exam 3X in 17 or 18 years)
The industry standard has gone from being a high school to a primary school diploma. Sad.
Took their TRAQ thing last year. It was ok, imo, ($700 cash cow), but I think much of that material should be rolled into the CA certification.


----------



## Jason Douglas (Jan 1, 2017)

I always come back to adopting a system similiar to that used for folks wanting to be an electrician or plumber or something of that ilk.
Not only levels of training and education but I would like to see certain work performed *requiring *a level of certification.


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Jan 2, 2017)

I mean it's nice to say to clients "I'm a certified arborist" but I almost wince knowing how little that means......... I really wish that **** was harder


----------



## derwoodii (Jan 3, 2017)

down here CA is meaningless no one know about it even in tree trade its a mystery myth.. i did it as involved with ISA if not i'd prolly never would. We have a few far better and harder Arb qualification levels though university and colleges ranging from Cert to Arb science degree and forestry doctorate - masters $1000 to $45000+ but once done there is no ongoing continuing education its up the the person to remain informed, i know of bloke with 1970 qualifications still claiming a currency of knowledge.


----------



## 802climber (Jan 22, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> I always come back to adopting a system similiar to that used for folks wanting to be an electrician or plumber or something of that ilk.
> Not only levels of training and education but I would like to see certain work performed *requiring *a level of certification.


Yup. Hoping for state arborist licensing here.. I found the state pesticide applicator exam to be in an entirely different league than the CA exam...I actually had to retake one section. Any tips on gearing up for the BCMA would be much appreciated.


----------



## ATH (Jan 22, 2017)

Wow...interesting. Pesticide is a piece of cake here in Ohio.


----------



## Jason Douglas (Jan 24, 2017)

ATH said:


> Wow...interesting. Pesticide is a piece of cake here in Ohio.


Yep. Greenhouse and turf pesticide tests are hardy than the ornamental one.


----------



## beastmaster (Jan 24, 2017)

I was really disappointed when I took the test 7 years ago. All I did was read the study guide. I had just finished a soil science college course that helped in that part.
I worked for a company that gave me a dollar raise if I was a CA that why I took the test. I always looked up to CA' s intell I became one. 
I decided not to spend the money to renew it even thou I had the CEU' s. 
I may again take the test because I would like to be a BCMA just to stand out to some of my peers, and use it for advancement in the company I'm working for.
If nothing else IS A has made themself to be a standard in the tree industry. Though we know the truth, municipals, institutions, and what not believe the hype.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jan 25, 2017)

Do it! maybe I will see you in August? PTCA seminar?
Jeff


----------



## capetrees (Jan 28, 2017)

ATH said:


> Wow...interesting. Pesticide is a piece of cake here in Ohio.



THATS sad and crazy. A person has a tougher test knowing how to trim a tree as opposed to a tougher test to protect the environment through proper chemical use!


----------



## treeseer (Feb 18, 2017)

BCMA gets me some very good work in my market from tree owners who do not want trees removed. Cost is $270/3 years, <$.03/day.


----------



## Reg (Feb 20, 2017)

Here in Victoria, some of the worst arborists Ive ever seen hold ISA certification. They cant climb spurless, they can't prune for ****. Clueless when it comes to idents, whether that be trees or diseases. Without any kind of practical exam, anyone can pass it with the help of the study guide. Not to mention the CEUs provide a sustainable wage on the ISAs part. Nice way to take money off you.


----------



## beastmaster (Feb 20, 2017)

I have a AS degree from a Jr college in ornamental horticulture. I spent a semester on many of the same things covered in each chapter of the ISA Cert. work book. Yet a ISA Cert. Will get you into a job faster then a AS degree. Go figure.


----------



## BigLnasty (Mar 3, 2017)

derwoodii said:


> Do they still do 20 plants tree id? i heard had been dropped for me was 20 twigs and leaves of local trees placed on table none to hard but i was in another OZ country state than my own so there was slight variation


I've tested and passed twice. The second time was because of an oversight in paying the re-certification fee, so I had to test again. The first time was a proctored exam and there were 10 tree ID questions with pictures, like you described. The second time, I tested electronically at Pearson VUE. There was no tree ID section for that test and they got rid of the individual domain pass/fail requirement, only requiring an overall passing score.


----------



## Jed1124 (Mar 21, 2017)

Took it today. Very easy. If they worded the questions properly it would even be easier. 
I've been a licensed ct arb for 5 years. Our state licensing system is hands down more difficult than the Isa certified arb exam. We have to take a written, then a field id, then a oral in front of a board. Our written is both a supervisory pesticide exam and arborist exam that makes the CA look like kindergarten. 
If anything, I am much prouder of my ct licensed arb credential than I was yesterday.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 21, 2017)




----------



## david1332 (Mar 24, 2017)

Do any of you guys have a study guide you'd be willing to part with?


----------



## Jason Douglas (Mar 24, 2017)

Brother has my old one.

Sorry dude


----------



## Jed1124 (Mar 24, 2017)

david1332 said:


> Do any of you guys have a study guide you'd be willing to part with?


Become a member of the Certified Arborist Study Group on Facebook. They have the quizlet study guides for all 16 chapters of the book. I would still get the book but you could probably pass just by using those quizlet sets.


----------



## no tree to big (Mar 24, 2017)

david1332 said:


> Do any of you guys have a study guide you'd be willing to part with?


I should still have one 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Jason Douglas (Mar 24, 2017)

The new edition is pretty nice and in color now. New guy at work got it for his CA exam.


----------



## Jason Douglas (Mar 24, 2017)

Your local or regional isa chapter can probably help you find a local member willing to loan one as well.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Mar 24, 2017)

OK, 
Here are the answer's,,
A
C
A 
D
B
All of the above
C
C
A
C
D
A
All of the above,,

Jeff,


----------



## david1332 (Mar 24, 2017)

no tree to big said:


> I should still have one
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


How current is it?


----------



## no tree to big (Mar 24, 2017)

A year and a few months old I'll try to find it. It should be the current copy

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## david1332 (Mar 24, 2017)

no tree to big said:


> A year and a few months old I'll try to find it. It should be the current copy
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Awesome. Pm me when you find out everything


----------



## Jason Douglas (Mar 25, 2017)

Edition shouldnt matter much.

Steps to become CA:
1. Read the book
2. Have a credit card
3. Have a pulse


----------



## mckeetree (Mar 26, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> Edition shouldnt matter much.
> 
> Steps to become CA:
> 1. Read the book
> ...



Mostly the credit card and the pulse...and I'm not so sure about the pulse. I did the CA thing years ago because ISA was spending some money on public awareness of the credential. "Certified Arborist" had become a little buzzword. The real value of it other than that...pretty much zero I suppose. I have hired CA's and also licensed applicators over the years that didn't know the first thing about ANYTHING. Just completely freaking clueless. I have also hired class A CDL holders that didn't know how to drive a standard shift bucket truck.


----------



## no tree to big (Mar 26, 2017)

mckeetree said:


> Mostly the credit card and the pulse...and I'm not so sure about the pulse. I did the CA thing years ago because ISA was spending some money on public awareness of the credential. "Certified Arborist" had become a little buzzword. The real value of it other than that...pretty much zero I suppose. I have hired CA's and also licensed applicators over the years that didn't know the first thing about ANYTHING. Just completely freaking clueless. I have also hired class A CDL holders that didn't know how to drive a standard shift bucket truck.


Pretty much dead on! Im a CA, I'll be honest I don't know nearly enough to go market myself as a CA to anybody. In my job I pretty much do 10 months of 90 percent removals then 2 months of 50/50 trimming/removals. I never have to diagnose, I can give you some sort of guess why your tree is sick but I'll probably be wrong... the isa don't teach it and unless you are taught in the outside world it ain't gonna happen. Don't get me wrong I'm not a complete tard but compared to a lot of the knowledge from people on this site I know nothing....

We just hired a guy class A went to truck driving school "I drove semis for xx long" and the ****er couldn't even find low or first gear in a 6 speed. He didn't even know how to hook a trailer up to a truck like dude close the pintle pin it, I'll give him the pin, put the safety chains on, and plug in the lights. Like really dude, I'll assume the semi was an auto? 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Jason Douglas (Mar 26, 2017)

I still say ISA should offer a PHC specialist cert.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 26, 2017)

How about a certified ass-licker specialist cert?


----------



## Connor Ruf (Oct 20, 2019)

I am taking the exam on November 4th and have been working through the study manual. I'm coming from a 4 year forestry degree background and I'm kinda finding alot of the information to be fairly easy. How difficult is the exam comparatively to the questions within the study guide? 

I've also had alot of people tell me that its not difficult and pretty damn basic.

Maybe thinking about pushing the exam forward in time. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## derwoodii (Oct 20, 2019)

Connor Ruf said:


> I am taking the exam on November 4th and have been working through the study manual. I'm coming from a 4 year forestry degree background and I'm kinda finding alot of the information to be fairly easy. How difficult is the exam comparatively to the questions within the study guide?
> 
> I've also had alot of people tell me that its not difficult and pretty damn basic.
> 
> ...


 
Given your background it will be easy nuff however if any knowledge areas within study guide challenge you best focus on them as pass mark is..( huh I forgot).. think it's 70% so be shame to need a do over plus ISA fee costs$$

From my memory the study guide and exam questions mostly lined up but typically ISA will mix up some the question syntax format to test you..


----------



## Connor Ruf (Oct 20, 2019)

derwoodii said:


> Given your background it will be easy nuff however if any knowledge areas within study guide challenge you best focus on them as pass mark is..( huh I forgot).. think it's 70% so be shame to need a do over plus ISA fee costs$$
> 
> From my memory the study guide and exam questions mostly lined up but typically ISA will mix up some the question syntax format to test you..


It's currently a 76 to pass.


----------



## ATH (Oct 20, 2019)

You should be fine...especially since it is one score to pass it. When I took it, you had to pass the whole thing AND pass each domain separately. I think I had a high 80 or low 90 percent for the overall score, but didn't pass the tree support system section. Had to pay a small re-take fee and drive an hour and a half to take a 5 or 6 question test for the tree support section only.

It is a "basic knowledge" test, not a comprehensive advanced examination of all things arboriculture.


----------



## hitoppa (Oct 24, 2019)

Connor Ruf said:


> I am taking the exam on November 4th and have been working through the study manual. I'm coming from a 4 year forestry degree background and I'm kinda finding alot of the information to be fairly easy. How difficult is the exam comparatively to the questions within the study guide?
> 
> I've also had alot of people tell me that its not difficult and pretty damn basic.
> 
> ...



I passed the first round that came here in '92. Not hard as I had been studying personally with Alex Shigo for about 12 years. How you going to push it forward from Nov. 4? Anyway, I wouldn't plan to think it is easy and cut back on studying. That sounds like a plan to fail. Review Review.


----------



## jzack605 (Oct 24, 2019)

david1332 said:


> Do any of you guys have a study guide you'd be willing to part with?


Download quizlet app on your phone and look up ISA study guides, test questions, etc.; there’s a bunch of different iterations and options to study on it.


----------



## hitoppa (Oct 28, 2019)

Iterations...I like that word.


----------



## jzack605 (Oct 28, 2019)

It sounded good so I thought I’d include it.

No idea what it means.


----------

