# who makes the best diesel truck?



## Ford's Lawncare

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but this is a pretty simple question:Who makes the best diesel truck? I am pretty sure at this point I am going to get a diesel. I want to buy one by springtime, either a 3/4 ton or 1 ton. I am looking more at Dodge or GM. I guess each one has their pro's and con's. I will be using this primarily pulling trailers, when I'm mowing lawns, however it's secondary use will be hauling firewood and snowplowing. If I get a 1 ton, I would get a dump body, but if I get a 3/4 ton I would probably get a dump trailer to haul the firewood. Right now I have a 1985 3/4 Chevy gas job, which is starting to cost more and more money to keep it running. I want a good realiable, work truck, that I don't have to cross my fingers every time I go to start it. Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Dan


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## Ken05

This is goona be like the best chainsaw thread.... 
opcorn:


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## Ironbark

Toyota Hilux. opcorn: 

Not avaible in the US, but it's gotta be the best truck ever made. A motoring show in the Uk tried to kill one, but couldn't. After sinking it overnight in the sea, they finally tied it down to the top of a 10 story building that was being blown-up. After the demolition, they dug it out and managed to get it runing and drive it. 

Pretty impressive.


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## huckaberry3

I really like my Duramax 3/4 ton I do not know if it is the best but I pull a 14 ft dump bed and really like it.

Huck


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## ShoerFast

huckaberry3 said:


> I really like my Duramax 3/4 ton I do not know if it is the best but I pull a 14 ft dump bed and really like it.
> 
> Huck



I'm with Huck.....

I have had Dodges , the Cummings passed everything om the road when they first came out. Just dumped a Power Stroker, glad it had some time remaining on an extended service plan as it was a total POS. (ball joints at 50K , EGR cooler at 60K Transmision 'one-way' clutch at 70K (transmission hard-parts, wouldn't auto down shift 4-3 down a grade) you get the picture) 

I drove a friends Duramax and really liked it, she has close to 100K on it and had to bring it back cause one of the seat-belts stuck sometime,,,,,, in other words, nota problem. 

I am however from the school that if you are going to be using the h311 out of a truck, and can justify the mid-sized trucks, truly research those options.


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## VernonFirewood

*ford or chevy: not dodge*

My dads friend use to have a 1 ton dodge deisel and he sold it after a couple years. he said he hated it. Within a year he was having all kinds of electrical problems. He now has a F-450 and it is nice and boy can it pull. If you want a 3/4 ton i would go for the ford. the 1 ton i would go for the chevy or gm.


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## Nuzzy

In keeping things short and sweet...

The Cummins is the only true medium duty diesel of the big three and is generally considered the best diesel powerplant. The Duramax certainly hasn't gotten many complaints though, and the truck has the best road ride. 

I'd say you wouldn't go wrong with either Dodge or Chevy


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## glenn31792

The Cummins is a good motor. Diesel power said it has two things you need to
look into. One was a lift pump - don't remember the second.


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## Tree Student

*Diehard chevy man here*

My whole family has been driving GM's since the dawn of time, they have tried the others but none could hold up on the farms of Texas.

However those were gas models, when someone needed a power plant they went diesel so in the 70's or so it was the Ford 6.9L that would move anything you could latch to it. Everyone knew the Chevy 6.2 and 6.5 weren't worth much because they were converted from gasoline models instead of designed from scratch, but there's always a few good ones in the bunch and we did find them and loved it. Now on to Dodge, they have had the long standing rep in the diesel market for trucks in the 3/4-1 ton range. When I had to start pulling 24K lbs then I turned to the dodge and can pass just about anyone on the road with it and turning 263,000 miles this week on a 2001.

I have a lot of friends who are in the hotshot business and the majority of them will agree if you need the power for the big loads then it's a Cummins engine or nothing. If you are looking at brand new trucks then GM is giving Dodge a run for the money in the 2008 models.

I'm still begging someone to get a Caterpillar into a 1 ton chassis.


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## Nuzzy

Tree Student said:


> I'm still begging someone to get a Caterpillar into a 1 ton chassis.




Well, you can get them in Ferd F550s and above... Of course you can get a Cummins in them too 

A Cat powerplant would be sweet for the right application! But they don't wind up real fast making them less ideal for the majority of road drivers. Not saying it would stop me from buying a Cat powered truck though


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## Tree Student

Nuzzy said:


> Well, you can get them in Ferd F550s and above... Of course you can get a Cummins in them too
> 
> A Cat powerplant would be sweet for the right application! But they don't wind up real fast making them less ideal for the majority of road drivers. Not saying it would stop me from buying a Cat powered truck though



I've had a GM 7500 dump with a cat and truly enjoyed the power but haven't seen a smaller truck with one yet, gonna have to go test drive one of them "Ferds" lol.


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## Nuzzy

Tree Student said:


> I've had a GM 7500 dump with a cat and truly enjoyed the power but haven't seen a smaller truck with one yet, gonna have to go test drive one of them "Ferds" lol.




Hmmmmm... I could've sworn the F550 and above had the engine options. Maybe they just had to be special ordered...



F-750 Super Duty® Chassis Cab Summary 
The F-750 Super Duty ranks at the top of the Ford commercial truck line, offering a maximum 33,000 lb. GVWR rating for Class 7 models. This truck will be appreciated by customers for its wide variety of Caterpillar or Cummins engine options, wheelbase/CA offerings, axle availability, tire selection, manual or automatic transmissions and fuel tank offerings - Built Ford Tough for the tough, every day jobs. 
GVWR ratings - 30,000 and 33,000 lbs. 
GCWR rating - 80,000 lbs.


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## MikE2

I'd have to say the Ford truck with the GM engine and transmission.


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## chowdozer

Tree Student said:


> Everyone knew the Chevy 6.2 and 6.5 weren't worth much because they were converted from gasoline models instead of designed from scratch, but there's always a few good ones in the bunch and we did find them and loved it.



The 6.2 and 6.5 were diesels from the bottom up designed by Detroit Diesel. You're probably thinking of the 5.7 Olds from about 1980.

6.2 production 1982-1993 engine codes LH6 and LL4
6.5 production 1992-2001 engine codes L56, L57 and L65

A liitle about it:
http://www.thedieselpage.com/62book.htm


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## ropensaddle

Me partial to mack-----------------------....


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## Frank Boyer

All of the 2008 diesels are new technology. They all added displacement and new emission requirements. The "regen" process has cut fuel economy and has caused problems. I would not buy a 2008 diesel. Toyota is supposed to have a diesel pickup next year.


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## Wortown Mick

Idk who said for 08 gm was giving dodge a run for its money.. 
Dodge is making a ram 4500 and 5500 with 6 speed auto aisin or w.e trannies. 

The topkick models are nice butthe new rams look really good on paper too.


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## MikE2

Frank Boyer said:


> All of the 2008 diesels are new technology. They all added displacement and new emission requirements. The "regen" process has cut fuel economy and has caused problems. *I would not buy a 2008 diesel*.



I agree completly. All the new diesel requirements is a sad thing to see happen but I knew it would come in time.








Wortown Mick said:


> Idk who said for 08 gm was giving dodge a run for its money..
> Dodge is making a ram 4500 and 5500 with 6 speed auto aisin or w.e trannies.



Dodge is a bit late with with those trucks too as Ford and GM have been offering trucks of that class for years. I'm glad to see them finally do it though.


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## Tree Student

chowdozer said:


> The 6.2 and 6.5 were diesels from the bottom up designed by Detroit Diesel. You're probably thinking of the 5.7 Olds from about 1980.
> 
> 6.2 production 1982-1993 engine codes LH6 and LL4
> 6.5 production 1992-2001 engine codes L56, L57 and L65
> 
> A liitle about it:
> http://www.thedieselpage.com/62book.htm



  

I stand corrected, I'm always up for learning something new but that was just what some of the local GM mechanics had told some of us years ago.

The 6.2's and 6.5's that we ever had in Texas couldn't pull much of anything with the exception of a few engines here and there.


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## djmercer1

MikE2 said:


> I'd have to say the Ford truck with the GM engine and transmission.



i kinda agree with this. i have a 98 f250 with the 5.4l triton and the ride is still much better than my 08 3500hd duramax.

this is my second duramax(1st was 2004 2500hd) and i believe that the duramax/allison combo is just about perfect. i hate the epa crap on my 08, the egr tripped the check engine light and by design the exhaust filter cleaner system was knocked out, back pressure and heat thus blown head(great system huh?).

i have little experience with the dodge, but a buddy has one and he liked my gmc(2004), but the 2008 has a smaller feeling cab.

i think that gm did put a cat in the 1 ton duallies in the late 80's/early 90's.

dave


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## redprospector

They are all using pretty good engine's, but the rest of the truck is only a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.
I currently have a 98 Dodge w/cummins 5.9. I know it's possible to get 500,000 miles out of the cummins, but the rest of the truck is just a Dodge (it'll never make it).
I had a 97 Ford powerstroke, and the cummins will deffinately out pull it. I haven't had a Chevy diesel since my 6.2 day's. But I hear they are pretty good now.
In my opinion the EPA has succesfully ruined the best engine for a work truck on the plannet (diesel) by attaching a computer to it, and then changing the fuel it burn's. Oh yeah, don't forget the oil for it they screwed up too.
They're all pretty good, pick the brand you like and pull that trailer.

Andy


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## Ten_Bucks

If you're gonna use the truck for timber related work, I'd suggest buying a used '99 to early '03 Ford Superduty with the 7.3L Powerstroke Diesel. Even though I'm a GM guy, I will admit that the Fords that I just mentioned can handle the abuse of being worked in the timber industry quite a bit better than the late model GMs and Dodges. That being said, if you want my opinions on which diesel is the best one for a pickup, I'll say Cummins with the Duramax in close second and the 7.3L Powerstroke in third. The 6.0L Powerstroke has had a tarnished reputation due to problems caused by the stock head bolts and the EGR system. Both of those problems can be solved easily if you get a truck with that engine in it. If I had the ability to build my dream truck, it'd be a '01-'03 Ford F350 with a '03 or newer Cummins under its hood and an Allison LCT1000 trans(one in the Duramax equipped trucks) behind the Cummins. That way, I'd have the best of all three brands. What I have just stated are my opinions and are NOT intended to start a flame war or argument in any way, shape, or form.

Scott


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## redprospector

Wouldn't it be nice if Ford, Chevy, & Dodge would do like Peterbilt, Kenworth, & Freightliner? The salesman would be asking you "Which engine/transmission combination would you like with that".

Andy


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## 04ultra

TreeCo said:


> I've got a 1995 F650 with an Allision auto and the 5.9L Cummins. 22.5 inch tires! 26k GVW.





Sorry to hear that.......j/k........good choice


A friend had a early 90's F650 with the ford 6.? diesel inline 6 and it was a warranty nightmare..


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## PAF

*.*

I like the Dodge cummins ! very powerful !


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## cabinman

*Cummings*



MikE2 said:


> I'd have to say the Ford truck with the GM engine and transmission.


 Cummins


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## 460magnumMOD

If your gunna plow dont buy a gm. The front end can't handle it. Also those and the fords you need a run at it to get piles pushing. the dodge get snow moving like no other. Also their front ends are now AAM 14 bolts instead of dana 60s. much stronger and no more ball joint issues like the predecessors when plowing. The fords were only good when they had the 7.3 powerjoke in them. the 6.0 and the twin turbo, if you want to call it that, suck. The new 6.7 cummins is a pulling machine. All the gm is, is speed and ride, thats it. My 05 dodge 3500 has 70,000 miles on it of constant work hauling and towing and loves every minute of it.


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## custom8726

460magnumMOD said:


> If your gunna plow dont buy a gm. The front end can't handle it. Also those and the fords you need a run at it to get piles pushing. the dodge get snow moving like no other. Also their front ends are now AAM 14 bolts instead of dana 60s. much stronger and no more ball joint issues like the predecessors when plowing. The fords were only good when they had the 7.3 powerjoke in them. the 6.0 and the twin turbo, if you want to call it that, suck. The new 6.7 cummins is a pulling machine. All the gm is, is speed and ride, thats it. My 05 dodge 3500 has 70,000 miles on it of constant work hauling and towing and loves every minute of it.



I don't know about all that, Our 03 duramax has seen countless hrs plowing with no front end issues. Also the gm being nothing but speed and ride is completly false, yes they ride way better then a dodge or ford but they are just as capable of towing big payloads as a cummins IMO.. We have two duramax's and 1- 7.3 powerstroke that work daily well the chevys do anyways the ford is getting a new tranny right now. Here is a pic of the 03 D-MAX pulling 26k and loving it!!!http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/custom8726/26klogs.jpg


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## clearance

The newer Chev/GMCs 4x4s ride real low to the ground, like an El Camino. The frame is way below the body. Driving on a r.o.w. road with ruts it will bottom out constantly, while other trucks and the old Chev/GMCs will not. 

If you never go off the pavement, no big deal, but a truck should go places a car cannot, even a two wheel drive old Chev/GMC sits higher. For that reason alone, I would never have one.


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## custom8726

clearance said:


> The newer Chev/GMCs 4x4s ride real low to the ground, like an El Camino. The frame is way below the body. Driving on a r.o.w. road with ruts it will bottom out constantly, while other trucks and the old Chev/GMCs will not.
> 
> If you never go off the pavement, no big deal, but a truck should go places a car cannot, even a two wheel drive old Chev/GMC sits higher. For that reason alone, I would never have one.



Couple of turns on the torsion bars and they sit just as high as a factory ford powerstroke. The factory stance, wheel and tire combo is crap on the chevy/GMC's but they are easily addresed items. A Much easier fix then the body rotting off the dodges or the head gaskets blowing on the fords. In all honesty they all have there pros and cons but for me the chevys have treated me better then the fords working every day in the tree industry. I never owned a dodge truck but If I did buy one it would have to have the cummins to make up for all the other short comings from dodge:greenchainsaw:


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## clearance

custom8726 said:


> Couple of turns on the torsion bars and they sit just as high as a factory ford powerstroke. The factory stance, wheel and tire combo is crap on the chevy/GMC's but they are easily addresed items. A Much easier fix then the body rotting off the dodges or the head gaskets blowing on the fords. In all honesty they all have there pros and cons but for me the chevys have treated me better then the fords working every day in the tree industry. I never owned a dodge truck but If I did buy one it would have to have the cummins to make up for all the other short comings from dodge:greenchainsaw:



Don't know much about the i.f.s. frontends, so I'll take your word for it. But how do you raise the rear?


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## custom8726

clearance said:


> Don't know much about the i.f.s. frontends, so I'll take your word for it. But how do you raise the rear?



The rear already sits about 2" higher then the front but the cheapest way to raise the back is leaf spring block's or an extra leaf or 2 will raise the back and the payload but the ride suffers slightly. You can run a 33" tire comfortably with cranking the bars on a stock GM.


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## clearance

You can run a 33" tire on an old Chev without doing nothing. 
Chev made the best trucks ever, then, for some reason they went down the toilet in '88. Dodge was almost dead, the Cummins brought them back, Ford, well, they have some good and some bad, but Chevy, what a dissapointment. I drive an '80 3/4 4x4, just got an '86 1 ton 4x4, the best years, easy to work on, simple, strong, if it ain't broke, why "fix" it?


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## ropensaddle

I have an 07 dodge 3500 4+4 6.7 litter not a pulling problem.
Now fuel is a different story has 10500 miles on her at 7.5 mpg loaded
as it is usually loaded!


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## custom8726

ropensaddle said:


> I have an 07 dodge 3500 4+4 6.7 litter not a pulling problem.
> Now fuel is a different story has 10500 miles on her at 7.5 mpg loaded
> as it is usually loaded!



Get rid of all that DPF crap and put a mild tune in your 6.7 and you will gain 4-5 MPG plus a little more power. Our 03 Duramax will get 18MPG on the highway towing and the 05 duramax gets 21mpg highway empty but around 15 towing. different motors (LB7-LLY). Also at 10500 miles she is not even broke in yet it will get better with more miles.


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## custom8726

clearance said:


> You can run a 33" tire on an old Chev without doing nothing.
> Chev made the best trucks ever, then, for some reason they went down the toilet in '88. Dodge was almost dead, the Cummins brought them back, Ford, well, they have some good and some bad, but Chevy, what a dissapointment. I drive an '80 3/4 4x4, just got an '86 1 ton 4x4, the best years, easy to work on, simple, strong, if it ain't broke, why "fix" it?



You are right about the old chevys they were and are still great trucks. I hate how complicated the new stuff is to work on, you need a diagnostic tool to do anything to them. But on the positive side they drive and ride like a car but can still take a beating not as tuff as the old chevys but your head is not bouncing off the ceiling every time you hit a bump either. All the new trucks are more car like in that respect though. The older trucks actually had steel bumpers on them you could actually hit something with and not hurt it you try that with a new one and it costs you 3k because everthing is designed to absorb impact. This pic was our solution to the wimpy bumper problem, we built it in our shop one weekend.


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## BlueRidgeMark

Now THAT'S a bumper!  


How thick is that stuff?


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## stihl sawing

I have a 2000 dodge 4x4 2500 with 150,000 miles. The only thing other than brakes and tires it has had done to it is i replaced the stock fuel system, Which was a pos. It will get 19 on the highway. Now at 4.30 a gallon i can't afford to drive it.


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## ropensaddle

custom8726 said:


> Get rid of all that DPF crap and put a mild tune in your 6.7 and you will gain 4-5 MPG plus a little more power. Our 03 Duramax will get 18MPG on the highway towing and the 05 duramax gets 21mpg highway empty but around 15 towing. different motors (LB7-LLY). Also at 10500 miles she is not even broke in yet it will get better with more miles.



I said power is no problem it does not need any more of that
I passed up hill towing a 53 foot wedge with two custom horse trailers
and it was duramax I passed! Dpf is foreign language to me
I have turned many wrenches in older stuff but these new fangled
contraptions,don't have a clue.


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## stihl sawing

Know what you mean about the newfangled stuff, I looked a new powerstroke and you could not see the engine for all the hoses and lines and whatever that stuff was.LOL


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## custom8726

ropensaddle said:


> I said power is no problem it does not need any more of that
> I passed up hill towing a 53 foot wedge with two custom horse trailers
> and it was duramax I passed! Dpf is foreign language to me
> I have turned many wrenches in older stuff but these new fangled
> contraptions,don't have a clue.



Power is just a bonus to the better fuel economy you will get with a good tuner. The DPF is on all new diesels (07 and up I believe) it traps particules and increases the exhaust gas temperture to burn it before it leaves the exhaust to help the enviroment sorry for the vague explanation but in short it kills your fuel economy but if you get rid of it make sure you keep your factory exhaust if you need to go in for service because they will probably void your warranty if they see you removed your DPF.


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## ropensaddle

custom8726 said:


> Power is just a bonus to the better fuel economy you will get with a good tuner. The DPF is on all new diesels (07 and up I believe) it traps particules and increases the exhaust gas temperture to burn it before it leaves the exhaust to help the enviroment sorry for the vague explanation but in short it kills your fuel economy but if you get rid of it make sure you keep your factory exhaust if you need to go in for service because they will probably void your warranty if they see you removed your DPF.


I have the extended and don't want to jeopardize it.


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## custom8726

ropensaddle said:


> I have the extended and don't want to jeopardize it.



I can't blame you there, nothing is cheap to fix on these diesels but having 500rwhp on tap sure is fun!!! heres a clip of our other D-MAX this one is more of a run around and do estimates in occasional work truck for now.

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/custom8726/?action=view&current=D-MAX2.flv

Way to modded to worry about warranty work at this point. LOL..


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## ropensaddle

custom8726 said:


> I can't blame you there, nothing is cheap to fix on these diesels but having 500rwhp on tap sure is fun!!! heres a clip of our other D-MAX this one is more of a run around and do estimates in occasional work truck for now.
> 
> http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/custom8726/?action=view&current=D-MAX2.flv
> 
> Way to modded to worry about warranty work at this point. LOL..



I may do it some when the warranty expires in 100k the bully dog or
similar!


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## Jumper

CAT hands down.

797B, 3600 hp. 

I am disposing of the dump boxes as they are replaced.....each is about 100,000 lbs alone.


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## pdqdl

ropensaddle said:


> Me partial to mack-----------------------....



It's been a little while since they made a pickup, but I'm sure they were good in their day.


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## 460magnumMOD

"CAT hands down.

797B, 3600 hp.

I am disposing of the dump boxes as they are replaced.....each is about 100,000 lbs alone." 


100,000 lbs. That would fetch a pretty penny at the scrap yard. Figure around $10,000 maybe a hair less. Thats at about .10 cents a pound which is what the local scrap yard around here pays. But then again 10 grand won't buy much fuel for that thing.


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## scotclayshooter

The Nissan Navara pick up seems to be a huge seller over in the uk
Fast, Comfy, 30 mpg, Nice looking and a great towing capacity


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## Jumper

460magnumMOD said:


> "CAT hands down.
> 
> 797B, 3600 hp.
> 
> I am disposing of the dump boxes as they are replaced.....each is about 100,000 lbs alone."
> 
> 
> 100,000 lbs. That would fetch a pretty penny at the scrap yard. Figure around $10,000 maybe a hair less. Thats at about .10 cents a pound which is what the local scrap yard around here pays. But then again 10 grand won't buy much fuel for that thing.



We have a contract with a scrap dealer so by the time they cut it up, load, transport it at least 250 miles etc what we get is a lot less. Still about $500k a year net proceeds none the less. 21 of these boxes are going to be replaced over the next nine months.


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## dave76

My 05 E350 with 6.0 Power Stroke has been to the dealer too many times already, (EGR problems, faulty cam sensor's twice, turbo clogging with soot, trans issues) on top of that with just supplies in the van we only get about 10 miles to the gallon. I'll admit it dose have power but the problem are too much to deal with. The old 7.3 Power Stroke may have been a bit of a dog compared to the newer Diesels, but they ran everyday. Were supoposed to be getting in some new GMC Express vans with the 250HP Duramax, I drove one the other day, thay are really quiet.

This site will make all Cummins fans smile. My favorite would be a 80s 1 ton Chevy PU with the Cummins engine and allison trans.

http://destroked.com/


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## stihl sawing

My 2000 dodge cummins has 150,000 miles on it and the only thing really done to it other than regular maintenance Is to get rid of the bad fuel system that came with it. The lift pumps were a joke. I replaced 4 or 5 of them since ive owned it and finally put the fass fuel system on. No problems now with fuel pressure. It is not a rocket but will pull all i need it to. Would i buy another, i don't know as they are very expesive right now. Probably couldn't afford one and diesel is a lot higher than gas. Would have to really think about it now. a gas engine would do what i need to do.


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## csx7006

OSHKOSH MTVR!!! Its has a good ride and can be easily configureable!


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## TimberMcPherson

World wide I would say the toyota hilux has to be well up on the list, its found in the most inhospitable places on earth, its hard working, rugged, effiecient, affordable and reliable. Found everywhere US trucks arent (which is just about everywhere outside the american continent) Heck they even had a war named after them.

Heres one put to good use by some CIA backed freedom fighters


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## Outlaw5.0

The best pick up truck is the Ford superduty, the best diesel engine is the 5.9 Cummins. Too bad that truck does not exist unless you do the swap.


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## 046

not really... hands down a 12valve Cummins Turbo diesel is the best!

97 was the last full production year for 12v cummins and is considered the best year. 12v cummins are the most trouble free diesel on the road. 

key is mechanical fuel injection, very forgiving and can run 50% waste motor oil with zero mods. tuffer than nails... stay away from 98.5-2002 cummins with VP44 electronic fuel injection.... you can thank me later...

if you must have a newer truck... go with 2003 or newer. general rule of thumb is newer the truck... the more picky the fuel requirements. 

my 97 CTD get 20-22 mpg on the road.... I've pull 30k+ lbs with no problems. easily bombed to 400hp with little $$ invested. torque converter/clutch has to be beefed up to take extra power. 



Ken05 said:


> This is goona be like the best chainsaw thread....
> opcorn:


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## Austin1

Outlaw5.0 said:


> The best pick up truck is the Ford superduty, the best diesel engine is the 5.9 Cummins. Too bad that truck does not exist unless you do the swap.


+1 I have a rancher friend and they use and abuse the trucks they have. He loves his f350 but hates the motor I don't care much for internationals also. 12 valve Cummings is the way to go great mileage good power,and most important low maintenance. Here's one for ya I have a 1980 GMC that had a 350 olds diesel in it originally what a piece of junk!! now it has a 307 olds but at one time wile my buddy owned it it had a 425 olds. But at 400hp and tons's of torque it at up the half ton drive train so he down graded to the 307 to save fuel and were and tare plus he wanted the motor for his Tornado.Again Cummins 12 valve in all the big three would make everyone happy.


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## custom8726

Austin1 said:


> +1 I have a rancher friend and they use and abuse the trucks they have. He loves his f350 but hates the motor I don't care much for internationals also. 12 valve Cummings is the way to go great mileage good power,and most important low maintenance. Here's one for ya I have a 1980 GMC that had a 350 olds diesel in it originally what a piece of junk!! now it has a 307 olds but at one time wile my buddy owned it it had a 425 olds. But at 400hp and tons's of torque it at up the half ton drive train so he down graded to the 307 to save fuel and were and tare plus he wanted the motor for his Tornado.Again Cummins 12 valve in all the big three would make everyone happy.



The 12 valve cummins is a great motor to bad you have to buy a dodge to get it.


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## kissfan113

I'm all for the dodge cummins combination myself, I own an 02 Ram 2500 24 Valve pulling truck, little brother has a 97 Ram 2500 12 Valve, friend has a 91 Ram D250 12 Valve, and the work truck my friend and I use is a bone stock2000 Ram 3500 24 Valve with a 9 foot flatbed.
The 2000 is a working truck, serves as a skidder, log truck, woods truck, scrap metal hauler, you name it it's hauled it i think... had a full size lincoln continental on the back of it, don't as me how we got it on there. I'll post a pic of it.

The black truck is the 2000 Ram 3500 24 Valve
The Red and Silver truck is my truck (the 2002 Ram 2500)


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## eric_271

*The best*

My 24 valve H.O. CTD 325 H.P. 610 fpt stock.


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## motoroilmccall

12V Cummins without a doubt... Only problem with them is the stock Auto's had a POS Converter in them, pop a billet converter in it and your good to go. The manuals had more power and were pretty much indestructible. Best driveline without question. Front suspension pieces, namely the track bars, wore out too quickly as they weren't designed to carry the heavy Cummins (notice its not "Cummings"). Throw on a track bar from Don Thuren or DT ProFab and your all set. 

Also keep in mind, the 12V has 0 electronics on it besides the fuel shutoff solenoid. Mine has a cable in place of the solenoid, so I can literally run the truck with no batteries, or alternator, and it won't die. 

The Fords have a great chassis, just a poor excuse for an engine, and the Chevy's have a great engine in the Duramax, almost as good as the Cummins, but the chassis doesn't last if its beaten, or overloaded. IFS has a lot to do with that. 

My 97 12V:





Still waiting to get the new 35" X-Terrains mounted up, the 33" BFG A/T's are about shot...

And my old 95 with 35" BFG A/T's:


----------



## 046

yup.. Common Rail CTD are pretty sweet! 

here's a couple interesting threads....

best year CR trucks
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=215423

best year 12 v trucks
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=212768


eric_271 said:


> My 24 valve H.O. CTD 325 H.P. 610 fpt stock.


----------



## eric_271

*Best diesel truck*

I really cant say enough about the power of the cummins 5.9. As for the way it rides and drives I have never had anything better how ever I have spent some change to get it that way with after market parts. For the price it should have come that way from the factory. 500 H.P. would be kind of neat, but a 3/4 ton 4x4 automatic that will get second gear scratch its not really lacking for power so I will keep the $600 it takes for the 500 hp in my pocket. Comfort and quiet until I turn the 2 amps on at 2000 watts. The comfort comes back when I turn it down to about 1200 watts.


----------



## nilzlofgren

I have an 89' F-superduty with a non turbo 7.3. I love this truck, Always starts Always runs, never says no, and pulls my backhoe. I only paid $1200 for it 7 years ago
View attachment 78263


----------



## motoroilmccall

Ah, the old 7.3 IDI motors... Just about as reliable as a 12V, them things will burn anything. IMO, it was the most reliable Powerstroke ever, the 7.3 Turbo motor was good, but didn't last as long as the older IDI's. The 6.0 is junk, and the new 6.4 is getting a bad wrap already, of course it doesn't help that you have to pull the cab off, yes off, to change turbo's...


----------



## epicklein22

Working at a camp ground for 3 years has given me a lot of diesel obsevations and insight. Duramaxs are king right now. That is what I saw most of for newer trucks. Obviously, 6.0 had a spotty record, some loved them and others couldn't keep the thing on the road. I am gonna have to say the new 6.4 is soon to follow in the 6.0's footsteps. I was so pumped to see my first 6.4 ever last summer. Well, one pulls up and I had to ask how he liked it. "Good till I started the trip here" It had over heated already!!! Not even a thousand miles on it. The engine compartment was horrible too, so cramped. Couldn't find anything easily. Most of the cummins owners were fiercely loyal and loved their truck. Same goes for 7.3t guys. Mostly 24v up at the campground. If I was gonna buy a diesel, I would go cummins 4.6 (24v or 12v), then 7.3t, then duramax 6.6. I drove a manual 7.3t this summer at my local tree company. Well over 200K and beat the pi$$ out of, and still pulling pretty good.


----------



## motoroilmccall

What the heck is a Cummins 4.6 12V or 24V?  

They were either the 6cyl, 5.9 B series (12V) or 5.9 ISB (24V). Then they had a 3.9 and 3.3 B Series and BT Series (BT had a Turbo), but those weren't in Trucks. Of course the king of the P-Pump Motors is the 8.3L C Series Engine, unless your an Int. man and you want the DT466.


----------



## epicklein22

Opps, I got my engine sizes screwed up. I meant 5.9. 

4.6 is ford v8 gas jobs.

Thanks for correcting me.


----------



## JTElectric

+1 for the old IDIs! I have a 92 Ext. cab 4x4 F-250, I LOVE the way that series of trucks looked, and even more, I love the way the old diesels sound! I have 229k on mine, I mostly use it as a car, carrying heavy electric motors around. I have pulled some heavy loads with it, and it did just fine, I heard it explained this way on the diesel forums:
"Hook up whatever you want behind an IDI, you won't get there first, but you'll ALWAYS get there!"

We still have an old 83 F-250 on the farm, 6.9, on it's second engine, truck is pretty much worn out, has probably over 500k on it now. LOTS of road trips! I really like Powerstrokes too, BUT, I prefer the simplicity of my old tractor engined pickup! I run Stanadyne in it and Beru glow plugs, and It started at -37 below last winter, NOT plugged in! There were numerous cars that didn't start that day, I was a little worried, but after a bit of slow cranking, off she went!

I love Ford trucks, I think the new ones have fantastic interiors, A buddy has a Dodge cummins that is 2 years old, rattles like an old Pontiac, leaks dust, rides horribly. He had a PS Ford before that, boy does he regret that move!

For the new stuff, I dunno...they're all so quiet, I guess it's nice for driving to the mall, but personally, I LIKE the Diesel noise! I plan on keeping my old 92 for a long, long time! It's getting *restored* next summer--new paint, engine gone through, tranny and T-case gone through, new locker in the rear, maybe one in the front too, (ARB maybe!) and a Banks or ATS turbo on it, plus a lift and some bigger tires. Will be a sharp old truck!


----------



## motoroilmccall

Never heard a new Dodge rattle... Chevy's used to pretty bad up until these new series came out, and the old series Fords were horrible. My 97 is getting a pretty bad rattle from the drivers side door panel, I popped it off to change the speaker, and busted a few of those plastic clips that hold it on, now the bottom of it rattle like a mother, guess I need to bust out the PL400. As far as ride goes, your not gonna beat a Chevy/GMC with the IFS... But its a stinking truck, you're whining about ride but praising a loud engine? Thats as ass backwards as Barack Obama at a KKK meeting.

All the new trucks have great interiors, basically, whoever has the newest model is top dog.


----------



## JTElectric

I like the way my cammed big block 70 Chevelle sounds too, doesn't mean I want it to ride like a grain truck! 

And PS, that was HIM complaining about the ride, not me! My leaf spring F-250 doesn't exactly ride like a Bentley!


----------



## mantis

IMHO I would stay away from Dodge.Unless they have improved their trany's they can not handle the cummings. I would go with GM first then Ford.GMC is the work horse of the GM market.Or just buy a Peterbuilt


----------



## JeffHK454

I'm a Ford truck guy , have had my '00 PSD F350 for all of it's 240K... love the 7.3.

Born and raised to be anti-Dodge but the 12V Cummins is what all small diesels are measured against.... the little 4bt power-plants also make grin!


----------



## 046

totally true about dodge trannys ... a mis-match for cummins. 

but in defense ... my stock 47RE auto has consistently pulled 30k+ lbs with no problems. my 97 12v is dead stock and could be easily bumped to 400+ HP with little effort. 

main reason for not bumping HP is stock torque converter will not hold it. the plan is to wait until stock TC dies, then install a triple disc Goerens. after that's done... I'll be bumping power to 400hp or so..

now if I had a manual tranny... all I'd have to do is beef up the clutch... then it's good for 500hp... much less expensive than a built-up tranny.... which can easily cost $6k+  



mantis said:


> IMHO I would stay away from Dodge.Unless they have improved their trany's they can not handle the cummings. I would go with GM first then Ford.GMC is the work horse of the GM market.Or just buy a Peterbuilt


----------



## Octane

"Best" is a relative term. What one person loves about a certain truck, someone else might hate.
Overall, Id have to say Ford would be the best diesel truck. The reason I say this is because overall, the Ford is the strongest in terms of frame/suspension and driveline.
However, the weak link of the Ford is the engine. There are so many problems with the Powerstroke. If you could get a Ford Super Duty with a Duramax or Cummins, it would be hands-down the best heavy-duty truck on the market.


----------



## chad3

glenn31792 said:


> The Cummins is a good motor. Diesel power said it has two things you need to
> look into. One was a lift pump - don't remember the second.



...Was the automatic transmission. They ended up fixing that, but to be fair it was mostly an issue with guys that were mashing the pedal. The older generation pre 98? are talked about as the best of the bunch for modding. The newer ones are very good from the get go. I couldn't get the diesel as the cost wouldn't allow it, but the newer trucks are still pretty nice.
Chad


----------



## spacemule

chad3 said:


> ...Was the automatic transmission. They ended up fixing that, but to be fair it was mostly an issue with guys that were mashing the pedal.



So, you're saying Dodge trannies are ok as long as you don't use the throttle? lol


----------



## newby79

Chevy Allison tranny is bullet proof, and the duramax engine rocks.


----------



## stihl sawing

spacemule said:


> So, you're saying Dodge trannies are ok as long as you don't use the throttle? lol


The dodge trannys are ok, Mine has 153,000 on it and no trouble. Where a lot of them failed was when the cummins was modded for more horsepower, Then they couldn't handle the extra power. Granted they aren't the best tranny out there but in stock form there ok. The only thing i dislike about mine is it don't wanna shift into overdrive on cold mornings. It will eventually but takes a little while. It has been like that since i bought it.


----------



## 046

dodge transmissions for cummins are based off of the rugged 47RH series. which is used in school buses. 

base problem is the mismatch between a legit medium duty motor with a light duty drivetrain. cummins 6BT is in a detuned state, stock in dodge trucks. with 12v CTD, it's nothing to bump up to 500+ hp, keep fuel mileage and retain reliability. 

in fairness to stock dodge trannies... not many other stock light duty truck transmissions would survive under those conditions. there are some who claim Allison transmissions are bullet proof. but I'm not convinced stock ford torque converter would fare any better under a 500hp load. 

built transmissions costing $6k+ generally use a triple disc torque converter with billet shafts. these type trannys are used for tractor pulls and drag races. it's not unusual for cummins trucks to pull 10 second quarter miles and be driven several hundred miles to the event. 



spacemule said:


> So, you're saying Dodge trannies are ok as long as you don't use the throttle? lol


----------



## eric_271

newby79 said:


> Chevy Allison tranny is bullet proof, and the duramax engine rocks.



It probly is bullet proof with just a duramax bolted up to it. The real test would be bolted up to the cummins which to this day with a heavy load will still walk away from the duramax. Not saying the duramax is a bad engine but it is not in the same class as a cummins. If the duramax could do with a heavy load what the cummins does do you would have heard of a lot more chevy tranny problems.


----------



## motoroilmccall

newby79 said:


> Chevy Allison tranny is bullet proof, and the duramax engine rocks.



Shows how much of a noob you are... 

Allison tranny's are the best stock transmissions in the 2500/3500 market, but the new 68RE is testing that pretty well. However, the Aisin tranny in the C+C Dodge's are leaps and bounds stronger than the Allison. NONE of the stock auto's are considered reliable at anything over 400HP if they are used for towing (which is what they were built for). 

Ford Suspension and Axles, NEW Dodge interior, Dodge Styling, Cummins motor, Aisin tranny, NP271 T-case, and Dodge driveshafts (the new Fords are half aluminum). That would be the best truck out there.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> Ford Suspension and Axles, NEW Dodge interior, Dodge Styling, Cummins motor, Aisin tranny, NP271 T-case, and Dodge driveshafts (the new Fords are half aluminum). That would be the best truck out there.



As a former Ford dealer tech and a current Honda tech at a Dodge dealer, I disagree. I'd rather have Dodge suspension and axles. We put TONS of ball joinst and axle seals and ring and pinions in Ford's that were still under warranty. Their 4x4 setup with the vacuum actuated hubs was a joke too. 

While the new Dodge interior is good, I'd rather have the current GM interior.


----------



## Freakingstang

nothing wrong with a cummins, but the trucks they are in are horrible. 

For stock apples to apples right off the dealer lot, the D-max takes the cake.


----------



## newby79

eric_271 said:


> It probly is bullet proof with just a duramax bolted up to it. The real test would be bolted up to the cummins which to this day with a heavy load will still walk away from the duramax. Not saying the duramax is a bad engine but it is not in the same class as a cummins. If the duramax could do with a heavy load what the cummins does do you would have heard of a lot more chevy tranny problems.



I am now dumber after reading this post the new cummins produces 350 hp and 650 ft lb of torque. The current duramax produces 365 hp and 660 ft lb of torque so how is the cummins stronger than the duramax. I like the cummins engine they are dependable and very capable engines. As far as with a heavy load go to the dieselplace.com and search the great pull off they usually do this pulloff with the new trucks every year. they do all sorts of tests to see which engine tranny package performs the best. like pulling up a 10% grade, the last one I checked out the dodge with the almighty cummins was in last place. The cummins is a great engine but lets keep things in perspective.


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall said:


> Shows how much of a noob you are...
> 
> Allison tranny's are the best stock transmissions in the 2500/3500 market, but the new 68RE is testing that pretty well. However, the Aisin tranny in the C+C Dodge's are leaps and bounds stronger than the Allison. NONE of the stock auto's are considered reliable at anything over 400HP if they are used for towing (which is what they were built for).
> 
> Ford Suspension and Axles, NEW Dodge interior, Dodge Styling, Cummins motor, Aisin tranny, NP271 T-case, and Dodge driveshafts (the new Fords are half aluminum). That would be the best truck out there.




I am sorry I did not know we were talking about c+c models I thought he was wondering about pickups.


----------



## motoroilmccall

newby79 said:


> I am sorry I did not know we were talking about c+c models I thought he was wondering about pickups.



He was, but you said the Allison is "Bulletproof". That just isn't anywhere near the truth. Fact is, all the new tranny's are close in performance and reliability, in fact, depending on how you use them, there isn't a clear winner. 

Like I have said before, if you go anywhere over 400HP on any new stock trans, your on borrowed time. If its an older truck, anything over 300HP is pushing it, however when built properly, any of these transmissions can hold 4 figure horsepower numbers.


----------



## 046

almost ALL ball joints/tie rod ends now days come without a grease zert. it's not that ball joints are inherently bad on any model. 

what's closer to the truth is ball joints of any flavor ... especially in heavy duty applications like 4x4.... will go dry... when ANY bearing to bearing surfaces goes dry... game over!

planned obsolesce pure and simple. mfg's don't want your front end to last forever, but do want it to last past warranty period. 

used to be standard procedure to lube the front end with each oil change. older vehicle front ends, if maintained would last close to forever. it's possible to do the same by filling up rubber boot with grease using a grease needle. 









Peacock said:


> As a former Ford dealer tech and a current Honda tech at a Dodge dealer, I disagree. I'd rather have Dodge suspension and axles. We put TONS of ball joinst and axle seals and ring and pinions in Ford's that were still under warranty. Their 4x4 setup with the vacuum actuated hubs was a joke too.
> 
> While the new Dodge interior is good, I'd rather have the current GM interior.


----------



## Peacock

046 said:


> almost ALL ball joints/tie rod ends now days come without a grease zert. it's not that ball joints are inherently bad on any model.
> 
> what's closer to the truth is ball joints of any flavor ... especially in heavy duty applications like 4x4.... will go dry... when ANY bearing to bearing surfaces goes dry... game over!
> 
> planned obsolesce pure and simple. mfg's don't want your front end to last forever, but do want it to last past warranty period.
> 
> used to be standard procedure to lube the front end with each oil change. older vehicle front ends, if maintained would last close to forever. it's possible to do the same by filling up rubber boot with grease using a grease needle.



You're right. So, why isn't it as big of a problem on the other manufacturer's without grease fittings?


----------



## Freakingstang

Peacock said:


> You're right. So, why isn't it as big of a problem on the other manufacturer's without grease fittings?



inferior metal.....opcorn:


----------



## 046

that's totally not true... ALL ball joints without grease zerts ... if subjected to heavy duty use... without re-lubing... then going dry will fail! 

difference is how someone uses the vehicle. naturally a 4x4 diesel equipped truck.... weighting 8k+ lbs will put more stress on it's front end. VS a 2wdr gas vehicle only driven on the highway. 

it used to be recommended that 4x4 vehicles re-lube the entire front end after each off-road session. with no grease zerts ... and folks not realizing a grease needle will do the same job. result is ball joints fail after only 45k miles. under heavy duty conditions... what's more amazing is how that ball joint survived that long without lube.

by the way... I used to be in the Auto parts business for 15+ years and know break down. to be able to intelligently stock parts, one has to understand how vehicles break. 



Peacock said:


> You're right. So, why isn't it as big of a problem on the other manufacturer's without grease fittings?


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall said:


> He was, but you said the Allison is "Bulletproof". That just isn't anywhere near the truth. Fact is, all the new tranny's are close in performance and reliability, in fact, depending on how you use them, there isn't a clear winner.
> 
> Like I have said before, if you go anywhere over 400HP on any new stock trans, your on borrowed time. If its an older truck, anything over 300HP is pushing it, however when built properly, any of these transmissions can hold 4 figure horsepower numbers.



You already made my point in stating that the allison was the best in 2500 and 3500 which is the size of truck he was talking about so quit being a .........


----------



## 046

hey motoroilmccall may be a bit rough.... but he knows his trucks!



newby79 said:


> You already made my point in stating that the allison was the best in 2500 and 3500 which is the size of truck he was talking about so quit being a douche.


----------



## newby79

Dont care the original ? was about 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and he starts pulling medium duty c+c issues up.


----------



## Peacock

046 said:


> that's totally not true... ALL ball joints without grease zerts ... if subjected to heavy duty use... without re-lubing... then going dry will fail!
> 
> difference is how someone uses the vehicle. naturally a 4x4 diesel equipped truck.... weighting 8k+ lbs will put more stress on it's front end. VS a 2wdr gas vehicle only driven on the highway.
> 
> it used to be recommended that 4x4 vehicles re-lube the entire front end after each off-road session. with no grease zerts ... and folks not realizing a grease needle will do the same job. result is ball joints fail after only 45k miles. under heavy duty conditions... what's more amazing is how that ball joint survived that long without lube.
> 
> by the way... I used to be in the Auto parts business for 15+ years and know break down. to be able to intelligently stock parts, one has to understand how vehicles break.



You are missing the point. We don't see hardly any in warranty repair on Dodge ball joints and steering parts. U-joints? Tons of them. None are greasable. 

I made quite a bit of money replacing front end parts on Ford's. It's the same parts, some used harder and some lead an easier life. 

I'm talking F-150 and Super Duty's with loose front end parts with 10-15k is not unheard of. Plenty of Dodge and GM trucks rolling around with original ball joints and 100k. Adding a grease fitting will no doubt extend life, but only if it's not a junk part to begin with.


----------



## ropensaddle

My new 6.7 dodge is hopefully better than the new ford 6.0
was, time will tell and I am easy on the pedal now in my older age.
I was told by my salesman that my tranny is a knock off Allison and
they have to pay Chevy so much per truck they use them in? If
that is true my truck should be bullet proof with the cummins allison
package if the epa has not ruined the cummins


----------



## motoroilmccall

newby79 said:


> You already made my point in stating that the allison was the best in 2500 and 3500 which is the size of truck he was talking about so quit being a douche.



First off, thanks 046, I appreciate the props. And you seem to know your trucks well too. 

Newby, watch the potty mouth, we aren't here to insult each other. I corrected you, and thats that. FYI, C+C trucks come in 1500 (some brands)/2500/3500 applications, so the Aisin fits. Even though we are talking pickups, you made the original statement that the "Allison tranny's are bulletproof" and that's about as true a fact as Barack Obama not having Socialist economic policies, meaning, ITS FLAT OUT WRONG...

I never insulted you, just corrected, and if you want to call me a "douche" on the internet it really shows your lack of knowledge. Putting someone else down doesn't mean you go up in anyone's books, it just makes you look like a punk kid.

And to RAS... The 68RE is not even close to the Allison in design, so what the salesman told you is a crock (nothing new there, they do it all the time). The 68RE is a totally new design, taking most of its cues from the 48RE, but beefed up and with 2 more gears. It operates as similarly to the Allison as it does an old E4OD, meaning, it shifts on its own, and thats about where the similarities end.

-McCall


----------



## ropensaddle

motoroilmccall said:


> First off, thanks 046, I appreciate the props. And you seem to know your trucks well too.
> 
> Newby, watch the potty mouth, we aren't here to insult each other. I corrected you, and thats that. FYI, C+C trucks come in 1500 (some brands)/2500/3500 applications, so the Aisin fits. Even though we are talking pickups, you made the original statement that the "Allison tranny's are bulletproof" and that's about as true a fact as Barack Obama not having Socialist economic policies, meaning, ITS FLAT OUT WRONG...
> 
> I never insulted you, just corrected, and if you want to call me a "douche" on the internet it really shows your lack of knowledge. Putting someone else down doesn't mean you go up in anyone's books, it just makes you look like a punk kid.
> 
> And to RAS... The 68RE is not even close to the Allison in design, so what the salesman told you is a crock (nothing new there, they do it all the time). The 68RE is a totally new design, taking most of its cues from the 48RE, but beefed up and with 2 more gears. It operates as similarly to the Allison as it does an old E4OD, meaning, it shifts on its own, and thats about where the similarities end.
> 
> -McCall



It shifts on its own or manual with a button I will check to see which tranny mine has before I call him a liar.


----------



## eric_271

newby79 said:


> I am now dumber after reading this post the new cummins produces 350 hp and 650 ft lb of torque. The current duramax produces 365 hp and 660 ft lb of torque so how is the cummins stronger than the duramax. I like the cummins engine they are dependable and very capable engines. As far as with a heavy load go to the dieselplace.com and search the great pull off they usually do this pulloff with the new trucks every year. they do all sorts of tests to see which engine tranny package performs the best. like pulling up a 10% grade, the last one I checked out the dodge with the almighty cummins was in last place. The cummins is a great engine but lets keep things in perspective.



You are dumber? Glad you admit it. The detuned cummins we are talking about here is superior to the duramax in every way. The last pull off I read about the duramax burnt up and caught the truck on fire. Besides that the cummins is making the same hp and tq on 2 less cylinders then the duramax. Like I said the duramax is a decent engine but I'm not the one here that thinks its in the same class as the cummins. You probly think dodge won't put some of the tune back in the cummins to change who has more tq, and hp. When I open the hood on a chevy truck with the duramax all I can say is massive boat anchor. You need to do a good read on diesel engine design. The 5.9 Cummins can be ordered at 6 and 700 hp from the cummins factory and does all the time for buses fire engines and trucks. Can you see where I'm going with this yet?


----------



## spacemule

My dog can piss farther than you all's dogs.


----------



## eric_271

spacemule said:


> My dog can piss farther than you all's dogs.



Back it up. How far can he piss?


----------



## spacemule

eric_271 said:


> Back it up. How far can he piss?



Twice, no, three times as far as your dog.


----------



## eric_271

spacemule said:


> Twice, no, three times as far as your dog.



Is this on a 10 degree incline? LOL


----------



## ropensaddle

I would like to say I would put my Mack up against any diesel
in longevity. Too bad they don't build a pickup


----------



## newby79

eric_271 said:


> You are dumber? Glad you admit it. The detuned cummins we are talking about here is superior to the duramax in every way. The last pull off I read about the duramax burnt up and caught the truck on fire. Besides that the cummins is making the same hp and tq on 2 less cylinders then the duramax. Like I said the duramax is a decent engine but I'm not the one here that thinks its in the same class as the cummins. You probly think dodge won't put some of the tune back in the cummins to change who has more tq, and hp. When I open the hood on a chevy truck with the duramax all I can say is massive boat anchor. You need to do a good read on diesel engine design. The 5.9 Cummins can be ordered at 6 and 700 hp from the cummins factory and does all the time for buses fire engines and trucks. Can you see where I'm going with this yet?



Ya you better recheck that becasue the only 600 hp motor you are going to order from cummins for on Highway use is the ISX 600 which is not even close to 5.9 or a 6.7 more like 14 liters. I used to drive truck the rig I drove had a cummins n14 redhead and it was only rated at 475 hp I guess I should have got the company to put a 5.9 liter in it. Just to drive the point home I called a buddy of mine who works for cummins He works on the motorhomes and buses that come in and he states that 325 hp is the highest hp rating on the 5.9 that you can order from cummins. He went on to say that the only engine they offer for on road use that has 600 hp is the isx600. So go ahead and call cummins and order your 700 hp 5.9 liter. I think you will hear a lot of laughter on the other end.


----------



## eric_271

newby79 said:


> Ya you better recheck that becasue the only 600 hp motor you are going to order from cummins for on Highway use is the ISX 600 which is not even close to 5.9 or a 6.7 more like 14 liters. I used to drive truck the rig I drove had a cummins n14 redhead and it was only rated at 475 hp I guess I should have got the company to put a 5.9 liter in it. Just to drive the point home I called a buddy of mine who works for cummins He works on the motorhomes and buses that come in and he states that 325 hp is the highest hp rating on the 5.9 that you can order from cummins. He went on to say that the only engine they offer for on road use that has 600 hp is the isx600. So go ahead and call cummins and order your 700 hp 5.9 liter. I think you will hear a lot of laughter on the other end.



My mistake. Its been a while since I read about the 600 hp cummins engine. Thought it was the 5.9. Regardless, the duramax ''Isuzu'', is not in the same class as the cummins.


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> My mistake. Its been a while since I read about the 600 hp cummins engine. Thought it was the 5.9. Regardless, the duramax ''Isuzu'', is not in the same class as the cummins.



Only the original Duramax is of Isuzu design.

Recently, the Duramax has been spanking the Cummins in stock pulling competitions. 

From my experience here at the dealer I'd say the Cummins is a bit overrated. From junk pumps and leaking blocks on the 24v engines to bad injectors on the common rails. We are currently replacing the 2nd engine in as many months for dropping the valve seat on cyl. 6. Both common rails. The head is cast in Mexico.


----------



## Freakingstang

newby79 said:


> Ya you better recheck that becasue the only 600 hp motor you are going to order from cummins for on Highway use is the ISX 600 which is not even close to 5.9 or a 6.7 more like 14 liters. I used to drive truck the rig I drove had a cummins n14 redhead and it was only rated at 475 hp I guess I should have got the company to put a 5.9 liter in it. Just to drive the point home I called a buddy of mine who works for cummins He works on the motorhomes and buses that come in and he states that 325 hp is the highest hp rating on the 5.9 that you can order from cummins. He went on to say that the only engine they offer for on road use that has 600 hp is the isx600. So go ahead and call cummins and order your 700 hp 5.9 liter. I think you will hear a lot of laughter on the other end.



425 for an onroad N-14 is pretty healthy. Most were 375 or 425. The offroad setup yields about 525.

I'd really like to put one of the C series (8.3) off roads into a truck, of course, it is a ways off from 600.

The 600 # that a lot of people are getting hung up on is somewhat available through aftermarket goodies, but not from cummins. We are talking differant programming, injectors, pumps, turbos, down tubes, exhaust, etc, not to mention inflated numbers from internet companies. Then the tranny becomes the weak link and so on down the line.


----------



## Freakingstang

Peacock said:


> Only the original Duramax is of Isuzu design.
> 
> Recently, the Duramax has been spanking the Cummins in stock pulling competitions.
> 
> From my experience here at the dealer I'd say the Cummins is a bit overrated. From junk pumps and leaking blocks on the 24v engines to bad injectors on the common rails. We are currently replacing the 2nd engine in as many months for dropping the valve seat on cyl. 6. Both common rails. The head is cast in Mexico.





No new news there, but my background is industrial, non emission engines. We have tested some of the 24v's in differant configurations in our smaller gens. 

The mexico casting kinda scares me though..... what happened to GB? Guess we americans are not the only ones outsourcing jobs...

The next couple of years are going to be interesting for us when our epa and smog exemptions expire.


----------



## newby79

Freakingstang said:


> 425 for an onroad N-14 is pretty healthy. Most were 375 or 425. The offroad setup yields about 525.
> 
> I'd really like to put one of the C series (8.3) off roads into a truck, of course, it is a ways off from 600.
> 
> The 600 # that a lot of people are getting hung up on is somewhat available through aftermarket goodies, but not from cummins. We are talking differant programming, injectors, pumps, turbos, down tubes, exhaust, etc, not to mention inflated numbers from internet companies. Then the tranny becomes the weak link and so on down the line.



You are right about the 475 out of the n14 that was not what you would call on the factory settings. I used to work at a John deere dealer and one of the tech was going to school to learn how to reprogram computer controlled diesels. so the owner allowed him to take the truck to school to use with the class as a learning tool for payment the teacher turned the pump up and dyno'ed it at 475. trust me that truck would haul.


----------



## 046

something must have changed for dodge truck ball joints.... on DTR there's been all sorts of reports of new dodge trucks needing full ball joint replacement after 45k miles or less. going thru multiple sets in 100k miles etc... but then again... loads of folks go 150k+ miles without issues. it's back to usage... there's only so much grease that can be stuffed into a joint... when that's gone... game over... 

don't get me wrong... I drive a CTD... but it's a 97 12v with all the rugged stuff. mine came with zerts on ball joints and tie rod ends. so ball joint replacement issues, if any with my truck will be my own fault. 

and yes... newer CTD are not as rugged old one's. in particular 98.5-2002 with VP44 electronic fuel injection pumps. stay away from those years, lift pump will fail taking out the main VP44 fuel injection pump. parts costs alone is $1,200+. it's not unusual for folks to go thru 2-3 VP44 in 125k miles :jawdrop: 

but then again .... there's folks with 300k miles on stock VP44. 
most folks who keep their 24v CTD... install a FASS aftermaket lift pump with ... most importantly a fuel pressure gauge. 

2003- common rail cummins was a MUCH better truck. but it's no different in ripping out trannys. with a bully dog type chip... instant HP. that's why dodge will not warranty if they find out a chip has been installed. 



Peacock said:


> You are missing the point. We don't see hardly any in warranty repair on Dodge ball joints and steering parts. U-joints? Tons of them. None are greasable.
> 
> I made quite a bit of money replacing front end parts on Ford's. It's the same parts, some used harder and some lead an easier life.
> 
> I'm talking F-150 and Super Duty's with loose front end parts with 10-15k is not unheard of. Plenty of Dodge and GM trucks rolling around with original ball joints and 100k. Adding a grease fitting will no doubt extend life, but only if it's not a junk part to begin with.


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> Only the original Duramax is of Isuzu design.
> 
> Recently, the Duramax has been spanking the Cummins in stock pulling competitions.
> 
> From my experience here at the dealer I'd say the Cummins is a bit overrated. From junk pumps and leaking blocks on the 24v engines to bad injectors on the common rails. We are currently replacing the 2nd engine in as many months for dropping the valve seat on cyl. 6. Both common rails. The head is cast in Mexico.



You peaked my intrest. Blocks leaking what and where? Bad injectors? Do you mean leaking? If so what caused them to leak?


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> You peaked my intrest. Blocks leaking what and where? Bad injectors? Do you mean leaking? If so what caused them to leak?



Blocks leaking coolant due to porosity in the casting.

The injectors we replace are on the common rail engines and they can fail either electronically or mechanically internally.


----------



## ropensaddle

So I see some of you do your living under the hoods of these
trucks what is the plus and minus of the 6.7 cummins or is it too early to say?


----------



## Peacock

ropensaddle said:


> So I see some of you do your living under the hoods of these
> trucks what is the plus and minus of the 6.7 cummins or is it too early to say?



The egr is killing them. We've replaced a few turbo's and had to de-carbonize a few more. Replaced a couple dpf's too.

All in all, it's gonna take a little while before they get this new stuff figured out completely.


----------



## ropensaddle

Peacock said:


> The egr is killing them. We've replaced a few turbo's and had to de-carbonize a few more. Replaced a couple dpf's too.
> 
> All in all, it's gonna take a little while before they get this new stuff figured out completely.



Hmmmmmm it was egr cooler on the ford twice locked the engine up
water in the cylinders and they would not replace the engine just the
cooler. I told them and filed a complaint that if water got into a running
engine damage had to occur. I am not certified but am experienced and
know that water and piston movement spell disaster I am not through
with ford! So the dodge has the same chit huh 45000.00 for a pos pisses
me off. I am going to request a bailout from damages caused by the EPA
maybe spacemule will have a client. If we are going to be Guinea-pigs
those trucks should be sold as such and 10000.00 instead of the joke
they are asking.


----------



## 046

there's also reports of fuel sensitivity on newest cummins. one fellow took his brand new CTD down to South America, where his job required him to be on site for 6+ months. 

he didn't get further than Mexico before being stopped by fuel sensitivity issues. he'd been better off finding a low mileage 12v to take on a trip to South America. 12v has a reputation for running on most any fuel. 

I can attest to that... currently running 50% waste motor oil in mine. have ran high as 90% waste oils, but that ended up clogging up my injectors. after replacing a new set... reduced mixture to 50% waste motor oils... a very conservative mixture for 12v cummins.


----------



## Freakingstang

046 said:


> there's also reports of fuel sensitivity on newest cummins. one fellow took his brand new CTD down to South America, where his job required him to be on site for 6+ months.
> 
> he didn't get further than Mexico before being stopped by fuel sensitivity issues. he'd been better off finding a low mileage 12v to take on a trip to South America. 12v has a reputation for running on most any fuel.
> 
> I can attest to that... currently running 50% waste motor oil in mine. have ran high as 90% waste oils, but that ended up clogging up my injectors. after replacing a new set... reduced mixture to 50% waste motor oils... a very conservative mixture for 12v cummins.



are you filtering your waste oil before dumping it in the fuel tank?


----------



## Peacock

Freakingstang said:


> are you filtering your waste oil before dumping it in the fuel tank?



I'd hope so. We just cleaned out a tank and replaced a pump on an old 12v that the guy had been burning waste oil in. Looked like sand in the filter and tank.


----------



## 046

here's a few few pic's of my waste oil handling equipment. 

45 gal or so of waste oil is pumped into 105 gal Semi tank, then balance filled with #2 diesel. then 50% mixture is pumped into main tank as needed. 

Dot rated tank allows direct connection to main tank. need to purchase an overflow kit from Northern before making gravity hookup. 

background of second pic is a 290 gallon storage tank. 
third pic is Bilstein Engine flush machine that pumps and filters oil.


----------



## spacemule

Where do you all get your waste oil? I hear it's getting hard to find.


----------



## stihl sawing

spacemule said:


> Where do you all get your waste oil? I hear it's getting hard to find.


You can have all mine. Got ten gallons now that needs to go. And i know the sideway 40 can't be that far away.


----------



## 046

got tenants that operate a transmission shop and a garage. plus my brother owns a repair shop. 

it's waste veggie oil that's hard to find due to all the folks chasing it for bio diesel. 



spacemule said:


> Where do you all get your waste oil? I hear it's getting hard to find.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Peacock said:


> Blocks leaking coolant due to porosity in the casting.
> 
> The injectors we replace are on the common rail engines and they can fail either electronically or mechanically internally.



Blocks leaking coolant from porosity? Maybe you're thinking of the 53 blocks that were junk back in the late 90's, which cracked under the exhaust manifold, and those only effected a few thousand trucks. I've NEVER seen a CR with a bad block. The Cummins CR's also have had the least of the injector issues compared to the D-Max, with the Ford PS being the absolute worst. And then of course you have headgasket issues with the D-Max, and the cooling issue's that many of the early D'Max's had. They couldn't pull a load without overheating and going into limp mode, getting passed by trucks half their size pulling bigger loads. 

Stock pulling classes have been about dead even for the last 3 years (around here anyways, I don't follow it around the country). In fact, I've seen stock Fords win. However, you fail to mention that even in stock form, the GM trucks are breaking front end parts when pulling, specifically tie rod ends and CV joints. All the while the Ford and Dodge trucks are cruising down the track without worry of breaking a thing. 

I have 2 12V's a 97 2500 4x4 5-spd, and a 98 3500 4x4 5-spd. the 98 was putting out about 550HP on an HX55 turbo by J Adkins, running 17* timing and it never missed a beat. The 97 had some headgasket issues after 300K miles, but now that its studded and O-Ringed it's holding 45lbs of boost no problem, putting out around 430HP, and capable of much more. I also have a 99 24V 2500 4x4, which is stock with just over 200K miles, its never had a fuel issue besides needing the preheater bowl replaced when the heater shorted out (overcharged the battery... oops). It does however have a Haisley lift pump on it, and has since about 45K miles. The stock lift pump is still working amazingly, but I'm sure not taxing it is giving it more life. 

The Cummins is the only Medium duty engine of the bunch, its the only engine that can handle over 1000HP on stock internals, and its the only one with a 6 cylinder design, which has been proven the most reliable design for 80 years. 

The new EGR equipped trucks all have bugs, just go ask for Ford technician... They'll all get the bugs worked out after a few years.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> Blocks leaking coolant from porosity?



Yep. According a a Cummins engineer that came to look at one it's just that. They just start seeping and oozing out the side of the block, generally under the intake.

I've been to the Columbus plant with some friends that work there and they say the same thing. Seems to have been randomly on models up through ~'01.

I think we've done 3 in the 4.5 yrs I've been here. I was at the Ford dealer before that.


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> Blocks leaking coolant from porosity? Maybe you're thinking of the 53 blocks that were junk back in the late 90's, which cracked under the exhaust manifold, and those only effected a few thousand trucks. I've NEVER seen a CR with a bad block. The Cummins CR's also have had the least of the injector issues compared to the D-Max, with the Ford PS being the absolute worst. And then of course you have headgasket issues with the D-Max, and the cooling issue's that many of the early D'Max's had. They couldn't pull a load without overheating and going into limp mode, getting passed by trucks half their size pulling bigger loads.
> 
> Stock pulling classes have been about dead even for the last 3 years (around here anyways, I don't follow it around the country). In fact, I've seen stock Fords win. However, you fail to mention that even in stock form, the GM trucks are breaking front end parts when pulling, specifically tie rod ends and CV joints. All the while the Ford and Dodge trucks are cruising down the track without worry of breaking a thing.
> 
> I have 2 12V's a 97 2500 4x4 5-spd, and a 98 3500 4x4 5-spd. the 98 was putting out about 550HP on an HX55 turbo by J Adkins, running 17* timing and it never missed a beat. The 97 had some headgasket issues after 300K miles, but now that its studded and O-Ringed it's holding 45lbs of boost no problem, putting out around 430HP, and capable of much more. I also have a 99 24V 2500 4x4, which is stock with just over 200K miles, its never had a fuel issue besides needing the preheater bowl replaced when the heater shorted out (overcharged the battery... oops). It does however have a Haisley lift pump on it, and has since about 45K miles. The stock lift pump is still working amazingly, but I'm sure not taxing it is giving it more life.
> 
> The Cummins is the only Medium duty engine of the bunch, its the only engine that can handle over 1000HP on stock internals, and its the only one with a 6 cylinder design, which has been proven the most reliable design for 80 years.
> 
> The new EGR equipped trucks all have bugs, just go ask for Ford technician... They'll all get the bugs worked out after a few years.



You are in buffalo right? come on down and we can put your cummins to the test!!!:chatter: Don't get me wrong I think the cummins is a great motor but everything that surrounds it is junk. We have 2 D-maxes and 1 powerstroke currently working everyday, well almost everyday, The 04 duramax had to tow the powerstroke loaded to the hilt home the other day after it decided 20k was to much for her. In the fords defense though it has almost 300k on the clock. As far as the tie rods on the duramax they are the weak link when under extreme conditions but its an easy fix $220.00 in HD tie rods and the front end is near bullet proof. As far as the allison its the best tranny bar none of the BIG 3, If you want to run over 500hp there are some modifications needed but under stock power that allison 1000 will last forever.


----------



## motoroilmccall

custom8726 said:


> You are in buffalo right? come on down and we can put your cummins to the test!!!:chatter: Don't get me wrong I think the cummins is a great motor but everything that surrounds it is junk. We have 2 D-maxes and 1 powerstroke currently working everyday, well almost everyday, The 04 duramax had to tow the powerstroke loaded to the hilt home the other day after it decided 20k was to much for her. In the fords defense though it has almost 300k on the clock. As far as the tie rods on the duramax they are the weak link when under extreme conditions but its an easy fix $220.00 in HD tie rods and the front end is near bullet proof. As far as the allison its the best tranny bar none of the BIG 3, If you want to run over 500hp there are some modifications needed but under stock power that allison 1000 will last forever.



Come down where? This isn't a pissing match... 

To get to your argument, HD tie rod ends are only $220-$300, and they are indeed the weak link, but then you have to worry about CV's unlike the Ford or Dodge, and don't even try to tell me they are as strong, becuase they aren't even close. Everything else on my truck but the engine is garbage huh? Boy you're lucky you ain't here with me. I never reallized the NV4500 (same Chevy used for a long time) was junk, or the Dana driveshafts, or the Dana axles, or even the New Process T-Case... If thats junk your Chevy parts must be scrap. The Allison is a good tranny, tell me where I said it wasn't. But it won't hold over 400HP reliably, just like any of the other tranny's. At 500HP you NEED a Billet TC, Valve Body, and if its a 4x4 you better replace that output shaft thats smaller than my pecker...

Best bar none? Try again... The Aisin is the best, bar none, and thats if you want an automatic, oh, wait, Chevy doesn't offer a REAL transmission anymore does it, you know, one where you actually shift the gears yourself... And how can you claim the 1000 is the best? Have you driven the 68RE equipped trucks? I've driven both, and they both perform equally well, until you flip on the exhaust break (if Chevy actually offered one)... That's where the 68RE makes the difference and shines. 

All the stock tranny's are bulletproof if you leave the engine stock, the only thing you'll ever need is a stock rebuild, nothing lasts forever... Clutches wear out in automatic tranny's, even the Allison, so its certainly not going to last forever.

You seem to be good at putting down other people's trucks, but have no leg to stand on to prop up Chevy's. Yes the D-Max is a GOOD motor, and excellent for what it was deigned for, but when it gets to major HP applications, it takes a lot more parts, and a lot more money, to compete with big HP Cummins motors.


----------



## Peacock

Why are we comparing modded trucks?


----------



## 04ultra

Peacock said:


> Why are we comparing modded trucks?



Kinda like modded saws to stock saws...Will there be a Cummins in a pickup after 2010.....





I like the Cummins but not a Dodge truck ...But thats just my opinion.......


----------



## Peacock

04ultra said:


> Kinda like modded saws to stock saws...Will there be a Cummins in a pickup after 2010.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the Cummins but not a Dodge truck ...But thats just my opinion.......



Agreed. I would likely leave the thing completely stock and quiet. With that in mind I'd drive a Duramax. It's got the most power and torque. The best transmission in a regular 3/4 or 1 ton and the best ride.


----------



## chowdozer

04ultra said:


> Kinda like modded saws to stock saws...Will there be a Cummins in a pickup after 2010.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the Cummins but not a Dodge truck ...But thats just my opinion.......




The 6BT is about 3400 short.


----------



## motoroilmccall

chowdozer said:


> The 6BT is about 3400 short.



Huh? 

Yes there will be a Cummins in a P/U after 2010. Dodge just renewed their contract with them until 2020, and the next generation engine is supposedly marked for around 2013 or 2014.

And modded trucks are nearly as common as stock trucks these days, for a number of reasons. Performance, engine life, and the biggest of late, FUEL ECONOMY. So it does make sense to at least mention it. 

If you like quiet and smooth, the GMC or Chevy is what you'll likely want. If you want long life, reliable performance, towing ease, and fuel efficiency, then you'll want a Dodge/Sterling. If you want the biggest, most expensive truck with the worst power, efficiency, and reliability, then you'll want the Ford...


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> Huh?
> 
> Yes there will be a Cummins in a P/U after 2010. Dodge just renewed their contract with them until 2020, and the next generation engine is supposedly marked for around 2013 or 2014.
> 
> And modded trucks are nearly as common as stock trucks these days, for a number of reasons. Performance, engine life, and the biggest of late, FUEL ECONOMY. So it does make sense to at least mention it.
> 
> If you like quiet and smooth, the GMC or Chevy is what you'll likely want. If you want long life, reliable performance, towing ease, and fuel efficiency, then you'll want a Dodge/Sterling. If you want the biggest, most expensive truck with the worst power, efficiency, and reliability, then you'll want the Ford...



Stock trucks rule around here.

I've yet to see a 6.7L Cummins out tow a new Duramax. And they certainly aren't any more reliable, engine or otherwise. I don't know about fuel economy of the LMM, but the 6.7L is terrible compared to the past engines. They just don't like the new emmisions crap.


----------



## motoroilmccall

The new 6.7L Cummins and the LMM are both piles compared to pre EGR engines, and that will NEVER change. My buddy has a 08 QC with the 6.7L and the 68RE, he's been getting 18mgp hand calculated in mixed driving, he picked up a full 1.5 mpg's after he hit 30K miles. Only thing he's had is 2 reflashes by the dealer. His parents own a 99 24V with 280K miles, I just replaced the 3rd lift pump in that truck (not too bad if you ask me). Thats a stock 2500 4x4 auto QC LB thats pulled a loaded 26' horse trailer twice a week since they bought it new. Weighs in around 12000-14000 lbs. They are on their second automatic in that truck, but of course they are older and don't abuse the thing. Their other son has a brand new 08 LMM Crew Cab 2500 GMC, he works for a local GMC/Pontiac dealer, and it does pull the trailer from time to time, and pulls it well. He's been getting 16mpg mixed driving, and he drives about the same as his brother. However, it does not like stopping that trailer. Granted, he needs to install a brake controller, but the 6.7L pulls and stops it just as well. Flip the exhaust brake on and the 6.7L tows that trailer leaps and bounds better than the GMC. The GMC has also had the computer reflashed a few times, and he's had a couple of injector issues, all replaced under warranty. Last I knew they replaced all of them under warranty. He's getting a little frustrated. The LMM will smoke the 6.7L down a straight line, by a few lengths actually, but thats if it's running right.

My other buddy owns a landscaping company. Drives a bright red F-450 SD with the 6.4L, with 35K miles he's on his 3rd set of turbo's, and that truck is stock. It has by far the best chassis of the three, but between turbo's, injectors, and head gaskets, that thing is nothing but a boat anchor.

As for my trucks, the 99 gets the best mileage, but for its size and power, the 97 has the best mix. I get 20-22 on the highway, and 18 around town.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> The new 6.7L Cummins and the LMM are both piles compared to pre EGR engines, and that will NEVER change. My buddy has a 08 QC with the 6.7L and the 68RE, he's been getting 18mgp hand calculated in mixed driving, he picked up a full 1.5 mpg's after he hit 30K miles. Only thing he's had is 2 reflashes by the dealer. His parents own a 99 24V with 280K miles, I just replaced the 3rd lift pump in that truck (not too bad if you ask me). Thats a stock 2500 4x4 auto QC LB thats pulled a loaded 26' horse trailer twice a week since they bought it new. Weighs in around 12000-14000 lbs. They are on their second automatic in that truck, but of course they are older and don't abuse the thing. Their other son has a brand new 08 LMM Crew Cab 2500 GMC, he works for a local GMC/Pontiac dealer, and it does pull the trailer from time to time, and pulls it well. He's been getting 16mpg mixed driving, and he drives about the same as his brother. However, it does not like stopping that trailer. Granted, he needs to install a brake controller, but the 6.7L pulls and stops it just as well. Flip the exhaust brake on and the 6.7L tows that trailer leaps and bounds better than the GMC. The GMC has also had the computer reflashed a few times, and he's had a couple of injector issues, all replaced under warranty. Last I knew they replaced all of them under warranty. He's getting a little frustrated. The LMM will smoke the 6.7L down a straight line, by a few lengths actually, but thats if it's running right.
> 
> My other buddy owns a landscaping company. Drives a bright red F-450 SD with the 6.4L, with 35K miles he's on his 3rd set of turbo's, and that truck is stock. It has by far the best chassis of the three, but between turbo's, injectors, and head gaskets, that thing is nothing but a boat anchor.
> 
> As for my trucks, the 99 gets the best mileage, but for its size and power, the 97 has the best mix. I get 20-22 on the highway, and 18 around town.



Why is anybody pulling 12-14k without a brake controller? 

I keep in touch with my old Ford co-workers and the 6.4 seems headed down the same road as the 6.0. I got away from Ford about a year after the 6.0 came out. I had already spent more time doing actual engine repair on them than the 7.3. Mainly just injectors and high pressure oil leaks on the 7.3. Admittedly, I was mainly a tranny guy at Ford.


----------



## 04ultra

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout9mpg.html




There are millions of pissing in the wind article's just like this on My dads better than your dad....



opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## chowdozer

motoroilmccall said:


> Huh?
> 
> Yes there will be a Cummins in a P/U after 2010. Dodge just renewed their contract with them until 2020, and the next generation engine is supposedly marked for around 2013 or 2014.
> 
> And modded trucks are nearly as common as stock trucks these days, for a number of reasons. Performance, engine life, and the biggest of late, FUEL ECONOMY. So it does make sense to at least mention it.
> 
> If you like quiet and smooth, the GMC or Chevy is what you'll likely want. If you want long life, reliable performance, towing ease, and fuel efficiency, then you'll want a Dodge/Sterling. If you want the biggest, most expensive truck with the worst power, efficiency, and reliability, then you'll want the Ford...



6 + 3400 = 3406
add a Fuller
and a couple of Eatons

no problem


----------



## motoroilmccall

chowdozer said:


> 6 + 3400 = 3406
> add a Fuller
> and a couple of Eatons
> 
> no problem



Oh... Lol... Should've guessed that. 

I'll take the Fuller or Eatons!


----------



## nilzlofgren

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but, who makes the best diesel?:biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## motoroilmccall

nilzlofgren said:


> I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but, who makes the best diesel?:biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:



CAT or Cummins, all depends on what it'll be used for.


----------



## 04ultra

nilzlofgren said:


> I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but, who makes the best diesel?:biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:



Nothing wrong with a D-Max......







.


----------



## ropensaddle

Mack million mile+


----------



## ropensaddle

04ultra said:


> Nothing wrong with a D-Max......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Me hates the emblem pushed too too many in my youth!


----------



## 04ultra

ropensaddle said:


> Mack million mile+






I drove a 1986 RS Mack years ago when new with 300 with extended range 6 speed ....

No more old Macks for me.........




.


----------



## Peacock

Hard to beat the E6 Mack.


----------



## ropensaddle

04ultra said:


> I drove a 1986 RS Mack years ago when new with 300 with extended range 6 speed ....
> 
> No more old Macks for me.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Ehhhhh:monkey: I am jealous mine is 81 twin stick air ride and 
I got it at around a million miles three years ago it keeps going and going.
Curious why you don't like them I know why no one like white western star:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra

ropensaddle said:


> Ehhhhh:monkey: I am jealous mine is 81 twin stick air ride and
> I got it at around a million miles three years ago it keeps going and going.
> Curious why you don't like them I know why no one like white western star:hmm3grin2orange:




Boss switched to Petes and K whoopers .......That old Mack was good in its day for drying your pants legs in winter...Loved the air window that opened on its own when it got below -10......Breath of fresh air.....


----------



## ropensaddle

04ultra said:


> Boss switched to Petes and K whoopers .......That old Mack was good in its day for drying your pants legs in winter...Loved the air window that opened on its own when it got below -10......Breath of fresh air.....



You would really like mine then I was driving the other
day and had a rat playing football in the cab with me I scared him and he went through the shift boot hole fell and was Mack smacked in the driveway lol!


----------



## nilzlofgren

ropensaddle said:


> Mack million mile+



I used to drive an older RD with a 237. Wouldn't go above 55, but what a bullet proof motor that was.


----------



## 04ultra

nilzlofgren said:


> I used to drive an older RD with a 237. Wouldn't go above 55, but what a bullet proof motor that was.





You haven't driven a truck till you drive a DM (damn miserable) Mack... 



Sitting on top the Steer tire is no fun....


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> The new 6.7L Cummins and the LMM are both piles compared to pre EGR engines, and that will NEVER change. My buddy has a 08 QC with the 6.7L and the 68RE, he's been getting 18mgp hand calculated in mixed driving, he picked up a full 1.5 mpg's after he hit 30K miles. Only thing he's had is 2 reflashes by the dealer. His parents own a 99 24V with 280K miles, I just replaced the 3rd lift pump in that truck (not too bad if you ask me). Thats a stock 2500 4x4 auto QC LB thats pulled a loaded 26' horse trailer twice a week since they bought it new. Weighs in around 12000-14000 lbs. They are on their second automatic in that truck, but of course they are older and don't abuse the thing. Their other son has a brand new 08 LMM Crew Cab 2500 GMC, he works for a local GMC/Pontiac dealer, and it does pull the trailer from time to time, and pulls it well. He's been getting 16mpg mixed driving, and he drives about the same as his brother. However, it does not like stopping that trailer. Granted, he needs to install a brake controller, but the 6.7L pulls and stops it just as well. Flip the exhaust brake on and the 6.7L tows that trailer leaps and bounds better than the GMC. The GMC has also had the computer reflashed a few times, and he's had a couple of injector issues, all replaced under warranty. Last I knew they replaced all of them under warranty. He's getting a little frustrated. The LMM will smoke the 6.7L down a straight line, by a few lengths actually, but thats if it's running right.
> 
> My other buddy owns a landscaping company. Drives a bright red F-450 SD with the 6.4L, with 35K miles he's on his 3rd set of turbo's, and that truck is stock. It has by far the best chassis of the three, but between turbo's, injectors, and head gaskets, that thing is nothing but a boat anchor.
> 
> As for my trucks, the 99 gets the best mileage, but for its size and power, the 97 has the best mix. I get 20-22 on the highway, and 18 around town.



Not trying to start a pissing match, just saying you are fairly local so why not let the trucks do the talking. To respond to some of your comments, The allison works so well in tow haul (engine braking) its overkill for an exhaust brake. Although with the new cummins its a nice option to compensate for the trannies short cummins. Your buddy had injector issues with a 08 lmm? Thats hard to believe, if you said lb7 it would be quite possible but with the 200k injector warranty its not much of a concern. Both my duramax's are modded and working daily with out any major work ever, They consistantly pull 30k+ and the LLY sees its fair share of the 1/4 mile and truck pulls almost always finishing ahead of comparible dodges and fords so IMHO GM's are better all around trucks, but to each there own.


----------



## nilzlofgren

04ultra said:


> You haven't driven a truck till you drive a DM (damn miserable) Mack...
> 
> 
> 
> Sitting on top the Steer tire is no fun....



Similar to the U model. Ever drive a B model with a quadraplex? Anywho, The coolest Mack so far ( besides the new Titan) is an RD800.


----------



## NORTHMAN

I understand Ford is developing an in-house built diesel,the Scorpion 6.7.Does anyone think that the manufactures in there quest for more HP and TQ,reliability is being sacrificed?I understand the pre Powerstroke fords while having relatively low HP and TQ by today standards were very reliable.What about the Mitsubishi FG truck,I've spoken to a couple of owners and they love them,again low HP and TQ,very reliable,7 yr. waranty,coupled to much lower gearing than U.S. light trucks.I had a 99 ford Powerstroke and now have an 05 Dodge/Cummins,like most things,they had good and bad about them.I also think with the price of diesel,the lower MPG new diesels are getting and the higher cost for the diesel option,people might be buying more gas pickups.For my needs,if I was going to buy a truck today,I would buy gas but we all have different needs.


----------



## nilzlofgren

NORTHMAN said:


> I understand Ford is developing an in-house built diesel,the Scorpion 6.7.Does anyone think that the manufactures in there quest for more HP and TQ,reliability is being sacrificed?I understand the pre Powerstroke fords while having relatively low HP and TQ by today standards were very reliable.What about the Mitsubishi FG truck,I've spoken to a couple of owners and they love them,again low HP and TQ,very reliable,7 yr. waranty,coupled to much lower gearing than U.S. light trucks.I had a 99 ford Powerstroke and now have an 05 Dodge/Cummins,like most things,they had good and bad about them.I also think with the price of diesel,the lower MPG new diesels are getting and the higher cost for the diesel option,people might be buying more gas pickups.For my needs,if I was going to buy a truck today,I would buy gas but we all have different needs.



That might be true in Fords case. 6.0 and 6.4 have bad records. Maybe the 6.7 will change that.


----------



## djmercer1

my lly is a nice truck, but i despise the fact that chev put the ifs in a hd truck though. my old 1980 gm with the danas rode like a dump truck, just like my buddies 08 dodge hemi does now. i think the overall package goes to chevy, ford is having too many trouble with their power plants(to me, even the tritons were junk), and i was never a fan of dodge trucks even though i love the cummins.

if you leave the truck stock, i doubt the dmax/allison will ever fail in the trucks life; the cummins probably wouldnt fail in our lifetime even if modded and is probably the best motor, and well ford is on its 3rd powerstroke in 10 years but the truck itself is nice.

personally, id like to see an allison 2000, in the chevy...


----------



## custom8726

djmercer1 said:


> my lly is a nice truck, but i despise the fact that chev put the ifs in a hd truck though. my old 1980 gm with the danas rode like a dump truck, just like my buddies 08 dodge hemi does now. i think the overall package goes to chevy, ford is having too many trouble with their power plants(to me, even the tritons were junk), and i was never a fan of dodge trucks even though i love the cummins.
> 
> if you leave the truck stock, i doubt the dmax/allison will ever fail in the trucks life; the cummins probably wouldnt fail in our lifetime even if modded and is probably the best motor, and well ford is on its 3rd powerstroke in 10 years but the truck itself is nice.
> 
> personally, id like to see an allison 2000, in the chevy...



I would agree with most of that and I too would like a strait axle gm. Mostly just because there easier to lift and just look stouter. There are plenty of duramax equiped trucks running over 700hp and 1000lbs of torque on the stock GM cv's so I would not say there junk by any means they just need a couple add ons to the front end to handle 100-700hp over stock. My LLY has less then $500.00 in front end parts to beef it up to hold over 500rwhp and has seen plenty of boosted 4 wheel launches truck pulls, chain hooks, etc.. etc..


----------



## djmercer1

custom8726 said:


> I would agree with most of that and I too would like a strait axle gm. Mostly just because there easier to lift and just look stouter. There are plenty of duramax equiped trucks running over 700hp and 1000lbs of torque on the stock GM cv's so I would not say there junk by any means they just need a couple add ons to the front end to handle 100-700hp over stock. My LLY has less then $500.00 in front end parts to beef it up to hold over 500rwhp and has seen plenty of boosted 4 wheel launches truck pulls, chain hooks, etc.. etc..



i dont think the weak point is the chevy is the ifs until you build the allison. i think without changes the allison is operating at about 80% its limit with the duramax, but build it and the next weak point is the ifs, fix that and the drive shafts probably will fail and on it goes....


----------



## custom8726

djmercer1 said:


> i dont think the weak point is the chevy is the ifs until you build the allison. i think without changes the allison is operating at about 80% its limit with the duramax, but build it and the next weak point is the ifs, fix that and the drive shafts probably will fail and on it goes....



As with any diesel truck the next weak point will eventually show its evil head when you start adding power to the drive train. The allison is built strong enough from the factory to hold some serious power but it is hindered by trying to shift nice and smooth and hold all the trq at the same time. A few simple mods to increase T/Q lock up and clutch apply pressures will enable a basically stock allison to hold up-ward of 600hp reliably. Yes the CV's have been known to break under extreme conditions but they are far from weak IMHO...


----------



## motoroilmccall

custom8726 said:


> Not trying to start a pissing match, just saying you are fairly local so why not let the trucks do the talking. To respond to some of your comments, The allison works so well in tow haul (engine braking) its overkill for an exhaust brake. Although with the new cummins its a nice option to compensate for the trannies short cummins. Your buddy had injector issues with a 08 lmm? Thats hard to believe, if you said lb7 it would be quite possible but with the 200k injector warranty its not much of a concern. Both my duramax's are modded and working daily with out any major work ever, They consistantly pull 30k+ and the LLY sees its fair share of the 1/4 mile and truck pulls almost always finishing ahead of comparible dodges and fords so IMHO GM's are better all around trucks, but to each there own.



A FSP hauling 30K lbs? I want to see this load... Maybe pulling stuff from the field to the barn, but no way are you pulling 30K+ often and long. There is a guy on the DTR board who pulled something like 46K from Washington to Alaska (his steel building IIRC), but said he never hit over 45MPH. 

Its not the problem of moving, its stopping.

And yes, my buddies LMM is giving him injector issues. The first time their diesel tech figured it was because of the computer going haywire, the second time he didn't have a clue why they went...

As far as the shortcomings of the 68RE, I have yet to find one, and if you look on all the boards, you'll be hard pressed to find any issues with them either. Another side note, take a look at the output shaft on a stock 68RE 4x4, then compare it to a 1000 4x4 output shaft, the Allison looks like it came off a Tonka truck. If you want to go farther, look at the connecting rods in the motor, the Cummins are twice the size of the Duramax, and we all know size really does matter.

I am local around here, and the Cummins trucks do dominate around here. BUT, I also hot-shot with my old uncle when he needs a second driver, and I can tell you we see a lot more Dodges and Fords on the east coast than we do GM's, and there is a reason.

One last question... If the Duramax is such a great motor, why is it you don't see them transplanted into Fords or Dodges? Because you sure do see plenty of GM's and Fords driving around with the B series motors, whether its the old 12V, or the newer CR trucks.

And Custom, the Allison can't hold 600HP even with a VB and TC upgrade. Actually I take that back, a 2WD can. The 4x4 will snap output shafts continuously with anything over 500HP in racing or heavy towing applications. Even daily driving will break them at that power if you try boosted launches or if you drive it like you stole it. NONE of the stock tranny's can hold over 450HP reliably with 4wd and a heavy right foot. Of course, any of them could hold 1000HP if you never use it...


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> A FSP hauling 30K lbs? *I want to see this load... Maybe pulling stuff from the field to the barn, but no way are you pulling 30K+ often and long. *There is a guy on the DTR board who pulled something like 46K from Washington to Alaska (his steel building IIRC), but said he never hit over 45MPH.
> 
> Its not the problem of moving, its stopping.
> 
> And yes, my buddies LMM is giving him injector issues. The first time their diesel tech figured it was because of the computer going haywire, the second time he didn't have a clue why they went...
> 
> As far as the shortcomings of the 68RE, I have yet to find one, and if you look on all the boards, you'll be hard pressed to find any issues with them either. Another side note, take a look at the output shaft on a stock 68RE 4x4, then compare it to a 1000 4x4 output shaft, the Allison looks like it came off a Tonka truck. If you want to go farther, look at the connecting rods in the motor, the Cummins are twice the size of the Duramax, and we all know size really does matter.
> 
> I am local around here, and the Cummins trucks do dominate around here. BUT, I also hot-shot with my old uncle when he needs a second driver, and I can tell you we see a lot more Dodges and Fords on the east coast than we do GM's, and there is a reason.
> 
> One last question... If the Duramax is such a great motor, why is it you don't see them transplanted into Fords or Dodges? Because you sure do see plenty of GM's and Fords driving around with the B series motors, whether its the old 12V, or the newer CR trucks.
> 
> And Custom, the Allison can't hold 600HP even with a VB and TC upgrade. Actually I take that back, a 2WD can. The 4x4 will snap output shafts continuously with anything over 500HP in racing or heavy towing applications. Even daily driving will break them at that power if you try boosted launches or if you drive it like you stole it. NONE of the stock tranny's can hold over 450HP reliably with 4wd and a heavy right foot. Of course, any of them could hold 1000HP if you never use it...



http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/custom8726/26klogs.jpg

There's 26k on the 04 LB7 with stock transmisson and front end. It has seen over 30k on many occasions and pulls it just fine, you are right about stopping being the biggest hurdle but with the trailer brakes ajusted and working properly it stops pretty good. This truck has been worked this hard since new and now has 113k on the clock and going strong. Also this truck has had the BANKS big hoss bundle on it for the last 90k on LVL-6 every day, granted the Banks does not put out crazy amounts of power its still putting out around 450 RWHP on a stock tranny and holding great thus far.


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall said:


> As far as the shortcomings of the 68RE, I have yet to find one, and if you look on all the boards, you'll be hard pressed to find any issues with them either. Another side note, take a look at the output shaft on a stock 68RE 4x4, then compare it to a 1000 4x4 output shaft, the Allison looks like it came off a Tonka truck. If you want to go farther, look at the connecting rods in the motor, the Cummins are twice the size of the Duramax, and we all know size really does matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did we stop and think that there maybe some metal differences?


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> A FSP hauling 30K lbs? I want to see this load... Maybe pulling stuff from the field to the barn, but no way are you pulling 30K+ often and long. There is a guy on the DTR board who pulled something like 46K from Washington to Alaska (his steel building IIRC), but said he never hit over 45MPH.
> 
> Its not the problem of moving, its stopping.
> 
> And yes, my buddies LMM is giving him injector issues. The first time their diesel tech figured it was because of the computer going haywire, the second time he didn't have a clue why they went...
> 
> As far as the shortcomings of the 68RE, I have yet to find one, and if you look on all the boards, you'll be hard pressed to find any issues with them either. Another side note, take a look at the output shaft on a stock 68RE 4x4, then compare it to a 1000 4x4 output shaft, the Allison looks like it came off a Tonka truck. If you want to go farther, look at the connecting rods in the motor, the Cummins are twice the size of the Duramax, and we all know size really does matter.
> 
> I am local around here, and the Cummins trucks do dominate around here. BUT, I also hot-shot with my old uncle when he needs a second driver, and I can tell you we see a lot more Dodges and Fords on the east coast than we do GM's, and there is a reason.
> 
> One last question... If the Duramax is such a great motor, why is it you don't see them transplanted into Fords or Dodges? Because you sure do see plenty of GM's and Fords driving around with the B series motors, whether its the old 12V, or the newer CR trucks.
> 
> And Custom, the Allison can't hold 600HP even with a VB and TC upgrade. Actually I take that back, a 2WD can. The 4x4 will snap output shafts continuously with anything over 500HP in racing or heavy towing applications. Even daily driving will break them at that power if you try boosted launches or if you drive it like you stole it. NONE of the stock tranny's can hold over 450HP reliably with 4wd and a heavy right foot. Of course, any of them could hold 1000HP if you never use it...



Just to clarify I never said the Duramax was a better engine then the older cummins I simply stated what surrounds the cummins is junk, Hence, why people transplant the cummins in different applications. If GM offered the cummins in a 3/4 ton I would buy one, but they don't so I choose the duramax package as I personally feel its a way better *ALL AROUND *vehicle then the other 2.. As far as breaking out put shafts It's possible but I have not had any issues with my LLY breaking any shafts in the tranny or front end and as stated before its seen plenty of boosted launches and truck pulls. The tranny has been upgraded as well as a tripple disk converter was added but all the Allison hard parts are stock. Heres a couple clips of the LLY.
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/custom8726/?action=view&current=D-MAXjpgburn2.flv

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/custom8726/?action=view&current=dragstrip41322-1.flv


----------



## custom8726

newby79 said:


> motoroilmccall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the shortcomings of the 68RE, I have yet to find one, and if you look on all the boards, you'll be hard pressed to find any issues with them either. Another side note, take a look at the output shaft on a stock 68RE 4x4, then compare it to a 1000 4x4 output shaft, the Allison looks like it came off a Tonka truck. If you want to go farther, look at the connecting rods in the motor, the Cummins are twice the size of the Duramax, and we all know size really does matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Did we stop and think that there maybe some metal differences?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly!!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## motoroilmccall

Metal differences will do a lot of good, but torque is torque, and size matters. Just like there is no replacement for displacement.

You're entitled to your own opinion, just like I am mine. I pull 20K+ lbs of beans, corn, or meal, with my truck at least 2x a week, and while the odometer has been broken for about 3 years now (yanked the wire off somewhere), it has about 315K miles on it, give or take 10K. Stock trans, and right around 450RWHP, give or take 25HP. The truck doesn't owe me a thing, and none of my Dodges ever have. The only thing that I don't understand is how you guys can bash a transmission that you've either never drove, or never broke. I've personally broken an Allison trans (not a 1000, think it was a 545), I've driven 1000 equipped trucks, 48RE equipped trucks, 68RE equipped trucks, E4OD Trucks, NV4500, NV5600, G56, blah blah blah... And I can't complain about them too much... Now in modified applications, the Allison is good, but so are the 68RE and even the 48RE. A TC and VB will make a 48RE just as strong as an Allison with the same upgrades. Stock for stock you're comparing apples to oranges. The D-Max is a high revving motor that doesn't have the low end grunt of the Cummins (you can't deny that), which is easier on tranny's.

Ford with a Cummins... That's the best diesel truck out there.


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall said:


> Metal differences will do a lot of good, but torque is torque, and size matters. Just like there is no replacement for displacement.
> 
> You're entitled to your own opinion, just like I am mine. I pull 20K+ lbs of beans, corn, or meal, with my truck at least 2x a week, and while the odometer has been broken for about 3 years now (yanked the wire off somewhere), it has about 315K miles on it, give or take 10K. Stock trans, and right around 450RWHP, give or take 25HP. The truck doesn't owe me a thing, and none of my Dodges ever have. The only thing that I don't understand is how you guys can bash a transmission that you've either never drove, or never broke. I've personally broken an Allison trans (not a 1000, think it was a 545), I've driven 1000 equipped trucks, 48RE equipped trucks, 68RE equipped trucks, E4OD Trucks, NV4500, NV5600, G56, blah blah blah... And I can't complain about them too much... Now in modified applications, the Allison is good, but so are the 68RE and even the 48RE. A TC and VB will make a 48RE just as strong as an Allison with the same upgrades. Stock for stock you're comparing apples to oranges. The D-Max is a high revving motor that doesn't have the low end grunt of the Cummins (you can't deny that), which is easier on tranny's.
> 
> Ford with a Cummins... That's the best diesel truck out there.



The duramax revs less than 200 rpms faster than the 6.7. The 6.7 hits peak torque of 650 @ 1500 and the Dmax 660 @ 1600. 6.7 peak HP of 350 is reached @ 3013 and the dmax of 365 @ 3200. Maybe 10 years ago the cummins was not a high reving diesel but I think it is in that class now. Dont get me wrong the cummins is a great engine but it is not the only great engine out there. I think the duramax and the allison tranny set the new standard when Chevy brought out this combo. And you are absolutely correct torque is torque. Now which one has more? I had better get the calculator out for this one.


----------



## nilzlofgren

Need to know what FSP, and LLY stand for. BTW, my non turbo 7.3 pulls about 20K at about 55 MPH, although, 45 is a much more comfortable speed.


----------



## 04ultra

nilzlofgren said:


> Need to know what FSP, and LLY stand for. BTW, my non turbo 7.3 pulls about 20K at about 55 MPH, although, 45 is a much more comfortable speed.



By the way what does BTW stand for??? opcorn: opcorn:




.


----------



## nilzlofgren

04ultra said:


> By the way what does BTW stand for??? opcorn: opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Not sure.:monkey:


----------



## 04ultra

nilzlofgren said:


> Not sure.:monkey:





  :dunno: :dunno:


----------



## custom8726

nilzlofgren said:


> Need to know what FSP, and *LLY* stand for. BTW, my non turbo 7.3 pulls about 20K at about 55 MPH, although, 45 is a much more comfortable speed.



LLY stands for the second generation duramax engine code. Lb7, LLY,LBZ, and the latest LMM. Don't know about the others


----------



## motoroilmccall

newby79 said:


> The duramax revs less than 200 rpms faster than the 6.7. The 6.7 hits peak torque of 650 @ 1500 and the Dmax 660 @ 1600. 6.7 peak HP of 350 is reached @ 3013 and the dmax of 365 @ 3200. Maybe 10 years ago the cummins was not a high reving diesel but I think it is in that class now. Dont get me wrong the cummins is a great engine but it is not the only great engine out there. I think the duramax and the allison tranny set the new standard when Chevy brought out this combo. And you are absolutely correct torque is torque. Now which one has more? I had better get the calculator out for this one.



Apparently all you look for is peaks... Take a look at the Dyno charts, the Cummins spikes Tq lower in the RPM band, peaks, then flat lines. The Duramax ramps up Tq, then peaks, then slightly falls off gradually the rest of the rev band. Its that spike in Tq that kills tranny's. 

All diesels are becoming higher revving, nature of technology. But you never answered my question. Why is it a D-Max is never transplanted into a Ford or Dodge, while the Cummins is put in everything from GM's and Fords, to Toyota's, Nissan's, Jeeps, IH Scouts, hell even hot-rods nowadays? 

One more thing... I NEVER said the D-Max was a bad motor, in fact, I've given it props the whole time. BUT, it is still a light duty mill, and it will stay that way. That has nothing to do with HP and TQ numbers, it has to do with construction, and the Cummins is a Medium Duty Engine, meaning its considerably stronger than the LD D-Max.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> One more thing... I NEVER said the D-Max was a bad motor, in fact, I've given it props the whole time. BUT, it is still a light duty mill, and it will stay that way. That has nothing to do with HP and TQ numbers, it has to do with construction, and the Cummins is a Medium Duty Engine, meaning its considerably stronger than the LD D-Max.




Have you ever driven a B-series powered F-650 or F-750? They are so grossly underpowered it's not funny. So yeah, they may hold up fine in that application, but they certainly are powerful enough for the job. That's a job for a C-series or DT466.


----------



## ned coed

cummins - no question


----------



## djmercer1

last time i checked, cummins, powerstroke etc didnt make trucks. only gm, ford and dorge make diesel ld trucks in amercia. across the pond where izuzu, mazda and toyota make diesels you would probably get a different answer....

back in the day of the d/w trucks i probably would have said that dodge had the edge because of the cummins, but ive never been a fan of the b-series and later trucks. ive never liked the fords and the twin wish bone front end they ran for years, but personally always like the gm.

things id like to see on all hd pickups, at least as options:
solid front axles
manual shifts
ptos
full bench seats up front in crew and extended cabs
120v generators
air compressors
snow plow preps
option for ac, pw etc delete
rubber mat covered floors

dave


----------



## eric_271

motoroilmccall said:


> Apparently all you look for is peaks... Take a look at the Dyno charts, the Cummins spikes Tq lower in the RPM band, peaks, then flat lines. The Duramax ramps up Tq, then peaks, then slightly falls off gradually the rest of the rev band. Its that spike in Tq that kills tranny's.
> 
> All diesels are becoming higher revving, nature of technology. But you never answered my question. Why is it a D-Max is never transplanted into a Ford or Dodge, while the Cummins is put in everything from GM's and Fords, to Toyota's, Nissan's, Jeeps, IH Scouts, hell even hot-rods nowadays?
> 
> One more thing... I NEVER said the D-Max was a bad motor, in fact, I've given it props the whole time. BUT, it is still a light duty mill, and it will stay that way. That has nothing to do with HP and TQ numbers, it has to do with construction, and the Cummins is a Medium Duty Engine, meaning its considerably stronger than the LD D-Max.




I tried to tell him the same thing, not to mention the cummins is making the same power with 2 less cylinders but some how in his mind duramax has raised the standard.


----------



## custom8726

eric_271 said:


> I tried to tell him the same thing, not to mention the cummins is making the same power with 2 less cylinders but some how in his mind *duramax has raised the standard.:*confused:



Yup!! It certainly has.


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall;1202061
All diesels are becoming higher revving said:


> Why is it a D-Max is never transplanted into a Ford or Dodge, while the Cummins is put in everything from GM's and Fords, to Toyota's, Nissan's, Jeeps, IH Scouts, hell even hot-rods nowadays?[/B] QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Thats because the chevys with duramax's are still running fine. So they are not in the boneyard and there are plenty of good cummins engines found in junk dodges with bad trannys sitting around in the junkyard so the engines are readily available.
> LOL
> :spam:


----------



## eric_271

custom8726 said:


> Yup!! It certainly has.



Some day it might be as legendary as the cummins. If you really need a diesel work truck now buy the real deal, a cummins dodge. Its no secret dodge put the hurt on chevy when they came out with the cummins dodge.


----------



## eric_271

newby79 said:


> motoroilmccall;1202061
> All diesels are becoming higher revving said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it a D-Max is never transplanted into a Ford or Dodge, while the Cummins is put in everything from GM's and Fords, to Toyota's, Nissan's, Jeeps, IH Scouts, hell even hot-rods nowadays?[/B] QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Thats because the chevys with duramax's are still running fine. So they are not in the boneyard and there are plenty of good cummins engines found in junk dodges with bad trannys sitting around in the junkyard so the engines are readily available.
> LOL
> :spam:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, theres no shortage of chevy duramax pickups at our salvages around here. We have formen at work switching back to the cummins dodge from the chevy duramax this year. The company wont let them change anything on the engines and swear the new dodges out pull the duramax's.
Click to expand...


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> newby79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, theres no shortage of chevy duramax pickups at our salvages around here. We have formen at work switching back to the cummins dodge from the chevy duramax this year. The company wont let them change anything on the engines and swear the new dodges out pull the duramax's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 6.7 will not out pull the LMM.
Click to expand...


----------



## newby79

eric_271 said:


> newby79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, theres no shortage of chevy duramax pickups at our salvages around here. We have formen at work switching back to the cummins dodge from the chevy duramax this year. The company wont let them change anything on the engines and swear the new dodges out pull the duramax's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It probably has a lot to do with price as the dodge trucks are cheaper. And there is no way it out pulls the duramax.
Click to expand...


----------



## motoroilmccall

Peacock said:


> eric_271 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 6.7 will not out pull the LMM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want proof... Talk is cheap.
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm certainly not saying you're right either. I bet they are within a second to 60 with a load, and depending on that load, it can go either way. Also, keep in mind, the Chevy is the newer platform by 5 years (2003 platform from Dodge, with tweaks, 2008 platform from Chevy, so far untweaked). Wait for the next gen Ram HD to come out then it'll be leaning in the Dodge's favor...
Click to expand...


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> motoroilmccall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want proof... Talk is cheap.
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm certainly not saying you're right either. I bet they are within a second to 60 with a load, and depending on that load, it can go either way. Also, keep in mind, the Chevy is the newer platform by 5 years (2003 platform from Dodge, with tweaks, 2008 platform from Chevy, so far untweaked). Wait for the next gen Ram HD to come out then it'll be leaning in the Dodge's favor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the 2008 GM HD trucks have the same frame setup as they have for the last few years.
> 
> http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout9mpg.html
> 
> They are very close, but the GM does outpull the Dodge.
Click to expand...


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> The 6.7 will not out pull the LMM.



Tell that to one of our formen that showed up in a new cummins dodge. His personal truck is a duramax chevy. The company pays for these pickups and lets them pick brand and make of their choice. He had nothing but praise for the new dodge.


----------



## stihl sawing

I think the best truck is the one you own and is paid for and your happy with it. Regardless of brand.


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> Tell that to one of our formen that showed up in a new cummins dodge. His personal truck is a duramax chevy. The company pays for these pickups and lets them pick brand and make of their choice. He had nothing but praise for the new dodge.



http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout9mpg.html

One-Ton Diesel Pickups 15% Grade Assessment:

If we were directing marketing for GM, here's how we'd pitch its diesel motor. D for Duramax. D for dominant. Check out the how fast the Chevy finished the hill climb - more than 5-mph faster and over 2 seconds quicker than either the Ford or Dodge haulers! This time it even beat the Cummins in the first 50-meters.

Though the Power Stroke was still slower than the Cummins to the top, the gap between those two engines narrowed substantially on the 15% grade, in favor of the Ford. If the F-350 and Ram 3500 both had 3.73 rear gear ratios, instead of the Ram's 4.10, we think the F-350 almost certainly would have moved into the second spot.

But there was an incredibly interesting reason why the performance gap between the F-350 and Ram 3500 seemed to close so much. After two sprints up the hill, the F-350's diesel particulate filter (DPF) went into regeneration mode. The DPF is a new emissions control device required to reduce diesel particulate emissions 10-fold from 2006 model year levels. Regeneration is triggered when the truck senses too much back pressure from the DPF, because of a large amount of trapped particulates. To get rid of the soot, the engine injects metered amounts of diesel fuel into the exhaust stream to incinerate the soot in the filter. On the third run, after regenerating, the F-350 ran the hill up to a full 2-kilometers-per-hour (1.2-miles-per-hour) faster than its first two passes.

We were very surprised by the apparent power boost the Power Stroke received from regeneration. It illustrated just how much the new DPFs can restrict airflow through the exhaust system, and the challenge faced by all the OEMs to improve engine performance while complying with new emissions regulations.

and....

The end result was the Silverado completed its run almost 5-mph (greater than 10%) faster than the F-350 and almost 2.5-mph quicker than the Ram. Wow!

The Duramax lives for climbing hills under load. We'd feel very comfortable calling on its power if we needed to pass slower moving traffic up a long, steep grade.


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout9mpg.html
> 
> One-Ton Diesel Pickups 15% Grade Assessment:
> 
> If we were directing marketing for GM, here's how we'd pitch its diesel motor. D for Duramax. D for dominant. Check out the how fast the Chevy finished the hill climb - more than 5-mph faster and over 2 seconds quicker than either the Ford or Dodge haulers! This time it even beat the Cummins in the first 50-meters.
> 
> Though the Power Stroke was still slower than the Cummins to the top, the gap between those two engines narrowed substantially on the 15% grade, in favor of the Ford. If the F-350 and Ram 3500 both had 3.73 rear gear ratios, instead of the Ram's 4.10, we think the F-350 almost certainly would have moved into the second spot.
> 
> But there was an incredibly interesting reason why the performance gap between the F-350 and Ram 3500 seemed to close so much. After two sprints up the hill, the F-350's diesel particulate filter (DPF) went into regeneration mode. The DPF is a new emissions control device required to reduce diesel particulate emissions 10-fold from 2006 model year levels. Regeneration is triggered when the truck senses too much back pressure from the DPF, because of a large amount of trapped particulates. To get rid of the soot, the engine injects metered amounts of diesel fuel into the exhaust stream to incinerate the soot in the filter. On the third run, after regenerating, the F-350 ran the hill up to a full 2-kilometers-per-hour (1.2-miles-per-hour) faster than its first two passes.
> 
> We were very surprised by the apparent power boost the Power Stroke received from regeneration. It illustrated just how much the new DPFs can restrict airflow through the exhaust system, and the challenge faced by all the OEMs to improve engine performance while complying with new emissions regulations.
> 
> and....
> 
> The end result was the Silverado completed its run almost 5-mph (greater than 10%) faster than the F-350 and almost 2.5-mph quicker than the Ram. Wow!
> 
> The Duramax lives for climbing hills under load. We'd feel very comfortable calling on its power if we needed to pass slower moving traffic up a long, steep grade.



Huh huh huh, I used to own and drive chevy pick ups, stop the sales pitch already. With 8 cylinders the duramax only beat the 6 cylinder dodge by only 2.5 seconds? Hardly anything to brag about unless the duramax has been sucking hind tit all along, then wow is still a bit of over statment for just 2.5 seconds differance . Personally I prefer the prestige, power and dependability of the cummins dodge. Duramax? A thought up name to try to get people to buy chevy pick ups again.


----------



## eric_271

stihl sawing said:


> I think the best truck is the one you own and is paid for and your happy with it. Regardless of brand.



That would be my toyota and nothing wrong with that one either.


----------



## custom8726

If anyone is local and up for some real world test's I would be more then happy to put either of my duramax's to any comparible diesel 3/4 ton test. Talks cheap, I know for a fact I have out pulled many dodges and fords with my duramax's. There is no comparison in comfort or speed when it comes to the duramax it wins hands down. So whats left? a strait axle and better factory from the other 2, big wow.


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> Huh huh huh, I used to own and drive chevy pick ups, stop the sales pitch already. With 8 cylinders the duramax only beat the 6 cylinder dodge by only 2.5 seconds? Hardly anything to brag about unless the duramax has been sucking hind tit all along, then wow is still a bit of over statment for just 2.5 seconds differance . Personally I prefer the prestige, power and dependability of the cummins dodge. Duramax? A thought up name to try to get people to buy chevy pick ups again.



Did you even click the link? Over that short distance 2.5 seconds is a butt whoopin'.

What does number of cylinders have to do with it? Last I checked, over the road trucks with 80k loads have I6 engines. It sounds like an excuse to me.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Thats because an I6 is the best configuration in a Diesel engine, and IMO the best configuration period for towing and longevity. And if you agree with me, why does GM continue to use a V8? I have a few tractors with big Diesels, and while the 903 V-8 Cummins a decent motor, it doesn't have near the power, reliability, or longevity that any of my 855's (I6) have.

I don't understand how you can read one test and say that the Chevy is better... That just shows ignorance. The Dodge came with 4.10's, which mean its shifting a lot more often than the Chevy, one extra shift could drop the truck down one gear, leaving the truck accelerating slower at the end of the run than the Chevy. That gearing also doesn't play to the strengths of the truck, sure it helps get a load moving, but after that its a waste. The Dodge won the unloaded test however, what do you have to say about that?

Custom, I'll run ya if you're willing. But keep in mind, I have a stick shift. I WON'T outpull you from a dead stop, to long to shift, and my turbo looses boost (has to re-spool) every time I shift (nature of a real transmission). From a roll however (like real world highway hauling) I'll leave you in the dust without even downshifting. Then if you want, we can hit the trails, and I'll show you why a solid axle is so important... and if you really need to see which truck is stronger, we can play chicken and see who wins.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> Thats because an I6 is the best configuration in a Diesel engine, and IMO the best configuration period for towing and longevity. And if you agree with me, why does GM continue to use a V8? I have a few tractors with big Diesels, and while the 903 V-8 Cummins a decent motor, it doesn't have near the power, reliability, or longevity that any of my 855's (I6) have.
> 
> I don't understand how you can read one test and say that the Chevy is better... That just shows ignorance. The Dodge came with 4.10's, which mean its shifting a lot more often than the Chevy, one extra shift could drop the truck down one gear, leaving the truck accelerating slower at the end of the run than the Chevy. That gearing also doesn't play to the strengths of the truck, sure it helps get a load moving, but after that its a waste. The Dodge won the unloaded test however, what do you have to say about that?
> 
> Custom, I'll run ya if you're willing. But keep in mind, I have a stick shift. I WON'T outpull you from a dead stop, to long to shift, and my turbo looses boost (has to re-spool) every time I shift (nature of a real transmission). From a roll however (like real world highway hauling) I'll leave you in the dust without even downshifting. Then if you want, we can hit the trails, and I'll show you why a solid axle is so important... and if you really need to see which truck is stronger, we can play chicken and see who wins.



Ford and GM use V8's because of packaging.

I would bet that in the 7% and 15% pulls the Dodge does not even shift one more time. Even so, 4.10 gears provide mechanical leverage, regardless of speed. I'd bet with lower gears the gap would be even larger. The Dodge was accelerating slower than the GM at EVERY point of the pulls up the grade. Even at take off.

Yeah, Dodge won the unloaded test. Who cares? The discussion has been about pulling.


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> Thats because an I6 is the best configuration in a Diesel engine, and IMO the best configuration period for towing and longevity. And if you agree with me, why does GM continue to use a V8? I have a few tractors with big Diesels, and while the 903 V-8 Cummins a decent motor, it doesn't have near the power, reliability, or longevity that any of my 855's (I6) have.
> 
> I don't understand how you can read one test and say that the Chevy is better... That just shows ignorance. The Dodge came with 4.10's, which mean its shifting a lot more often than the Chevy, one extra shift could drop the truck down one gear, leaving the truck accelerating slower at the end of the run than the Chevy. That gearing also doesn't play to the strengths of the truck, sure it helps get a load moving, but after that its a waste. The Dodge won the unloaded test however, what do you have to say about that?
> 
> *Custom, I'll run ya if you're willing. But keep in mind, I have a stick shift. I WON'T outpull you from a dead stop, to long to shift, and my turbo looses boost (has to re-spool) every time I shift (nature of a real transmission). From a roll however (like real world highway hauling) I'll leave you in the dust without even downshifting. Then if you want, we can hit the trails, and I'll show you why a solid axle is so important... and if you really need to see which truck is stronger, we can play chicken and see who wins. *


 

Trust me it does not matter if we do a rolling start or not, Hell I'd even give you a couple second head start pulling a load up a grade and still win with the LLY. Our shop is on a 110 acre parcel full of old logging roads and mud holes. Theres also a perfect grade about 1 mile long not 2 min from the shop for the load test. Come on down and will have us a little diesel jamboree, Ive got a few other buddies that Im sure would get in on it aswell, Mostly fords and a couple cummins that have already been spanked by the duramax but that don't stop them from trying. Or better yet enter that thing in one of the local pulls. I will be attending quite a few regardless. I got 3rd in the last one I entered a month ago (8.5k outlaw class) And was the only one in the top 3 that drove my truck 90 miles there and then back home at the end of the night. First and second place were trailered in and were dedicated pullers only... The funny thing is, even if you actually did show up, you would come up with a million reasons why your precious cummins lost because in your mind its inconceivable for a dodge to lose to a chevy, sorry to say its just not the case *ANYMORE*


----------



## 04ultra

motoroilmccall said:


> Thats because an I6 is the best configuration in a Diesel engine, and IMO the best configuration period for towing and longevity. And if you agree with me, why does GM continue to use a V8? I have a few tractors with big Diesels, and while the 903 V-8 Cummins a decent motor, it doesn't have near the power, reliability, or longevity that any of my 855's (I6) have.




E9 Mack

Cat 3408

A couple nice ones but spendy to rebuild .........


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> Did you even click the link? Over that short distance 2.5 seconds is a butt whoopin'.
> 
> What does number of cylinders have to do with it? Last I checked, over the road trucks with 80k loads have I6 engines. It sounds like an excuse to me.



Do you think 10 hp made the 2.5 second differance? Just asking. Is this the same test where the duramax lives to pull an empty car trailer up hill?


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> Ford and GM use V8's because of packaging.



No, Ford and GM use V8's because Dodge beat them to the Cummins.


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> No, Ford and GM use V8's because Dodge beat them to the Cummins.



Ha! 

Any of them would love the Cummins badge on the side of their truck. It's a great selling point.


----------



## KMB

stihl sawing said:


> I think the best truck is the one *you own and is paid for and your happy with it.* Regardless of brand.



:agree2: Good post!

But this thread is entertaining... 

Kevin


----------



## motoroilmccall

custom8726 said:


> [/U][/B]
> 
> Trust me it does not matter if we do a rolling start or not, Hell I'd even give you a couple second head start pulling a load up a grade and still win with the LLY. Our shop is on a 110 acre parcel full of old logging roads and mud holes. Theres also a perfect grade about 1 mile long not 2 min from the shop for the load test. Come on down and will have us a little diesel jamboree, Ive got a few other buddies that Im sure would get in on it aswell, Mostly fords and a couple cummins that have already been spanked by the duramax but that don't stop them from trying. Or better yet enter that thing in one of the local pulls. I will be attending quite a few regardless. I got 3rd in the last one I entered a month ago (8.5k outlaw class) And was the only one in the top 3 that drove my truck 90 miles there and then back home at the end of the night. First and second place were trailered in and were dedicated pullers only... The funny thing is, even if you actually did show up, you would come up with a million reasons why your precious cummins lost because in your mind its inconceivable for a dodge to lose to a chevy, sorry to say its just not the case *ANYMORE*



You're right there with Peacock... Don't answer questions... Reminds me of Obama.

I HAD a daily driving puller truck, it was my 98, and no matter what you say, your Chevy COULD NOT have kept up with it, and yes, it was built to the hilt. I'd love to come down where ever you are, and if you really want to get something set up, check out http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/chickenlight . Thats the Upstate Bombers Diesel Forum, you can really talk trucks there, and the guys are local. I will not however enter my 97 in a truck pull, I have to drive the thing home, so if something happens to break, it puts me in a bind, and to be honest, while it would do fine in the stock class, most of it comes down to the driver (I've seen guys with half as much HP beat guys with much more money in their trucks, simply because they know how to pull), and I don't have any experience pulling with my setup. You took 3rd with you're truck, but what trucks won? Which pull was it, because I can find the results. 

So here are the questions:
1. Cummins' are transplanted into PS Fords, and DM Chevy's (along with a million other things), why aren't D-Max's planted into Dodges or Fords?
2. Where are you located? What part of the state, I'd love to go down and drink some beers and have a little competition, but I don't exactly have free time available whenever, I work 2 jobs and go to school full time.
3. If IFS is so good under the Chevy, why is it guys swap to Solid axles quite regularly?
4. If Dodge can't compete with the Chevy anymore as you say, then why do Cummins powered Dodges still hold the fastest 1/4 miles times, dominate every pulling circuit in the country, and have the greatest aftermarket support? 

Again, I'm not saying Chevy is a bad truck, or that the D-Max isn't a good motor, but you ARE saying that Dodge builds a crappy truck, and that's so far from the truth you sound like a politician :biggrinbounce2: .

Oh yeah, and all 3 of my trucks are paid for, and I'm quite happy with them... That's what makes them the best in my eyes.


----------



## 04ultra

My dads better than your dad because hes my dad.....


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> You're right there with Peacock... Don't answer questions... Reminds me of Obama.



What question have I not answered?


----------



## 04ultra

Peacock said:


> What question have I not answered?






Why dont you like the almighty Dodge Trucks????


----------



## BIG JAKE

motoroilmccall said:


> You're right there with Peacock... Don't answer questions... Reminds me of Obama.
> 
> I HAD a daily driving puller truck, it was my 98, and no matter what you say, your Chevy COULD NOT have kept up with it, and yes, it was built to the hilt. I'd love to come down where ever you are, and if you really want to get something set up, check out http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/chickenlight . Thats the Upstate Bombers Diesel Forum, you can really talk trucks there, and the guys are local. I will not however enter my 97 in a truck pull, I have to drive the thing home, so if something happens to break, it puts me in a bind, and to be honest, while it would do fine in the stock class, most of it comes down to the driver (I've seen guys with half as much HP beat guys with much more money in their trucks, simply because they know how to pull), and I don't have any experience pulling with my setup. You took 3rd with you're truck, but what trucks won? Which pull was it, because I can find the results.
> 
> So here are the questions:
> 1. Cummins' are transplanted into PS Fords, and DM Chevy's (along with a million other things), why aren't D-Max's planted into Dodges or Fords?
> 2. Where are you located? What part of the state, I'd love to go down and drink some beers and have a little competition, but I don't exactly have free time available whenever, I work 2 jobs and go to school full time.
> 3. If IFS is so good under the Chevy, why is it guys swap to Solid axles quite regularly?
> 4. If Dodge can't compete with the Chevy anymore as you say, then why do Cummins powered Dodges still hold the fastest 1/4 miles times, dominate every pulling circuit in the country, and have the greatest aftermarket support?
> 
> Again, I'm not saying Chevy is a bad truck, or that the D-Max isn't a good motor, but you ARE saying that Dodge builds a crappy truck, and that's so far from the truth you sound like a politician :biggrinbounce2: .
> 
> Oh yeah, and all 3 of my trucks are paid for, and I'm quite happy with them... That's what makes them the best in my eyes.



Answer:
1. No trucks in salvage yard (as in still running)
2. Yep-parts are expensive
3. No one I know with a Dmax has even entertained the idea. Maybe you should go to a baja race and see how many solid axles are running there.
4. Because they've been around longer?

I love my 02 duramax. Best ride, Allison is awesome-exactly what I want and need. But all three are world class-drive whatever suits you I don't think you can go wrong.


----------



## Peacock

04ultra said:


> Why dont you like the almighty Dodge Trucks????



I admit a huge grudge.:hmm3grin2orange: 

I tease our Dodge techs about the Ram horn tatoo's they all have on their inner thighs that comes with working on Dodge cars/trucks.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## motoroilmccall

Peacock said:


> What question have I not answered?



Why Cummins are transplanted into everything, while D-Max's aren't... I know the answer already, so whatever...

BIG JAKE, We have a lot of scrap yards up here in the rust belt, you can't find Dodge Diesels anywhere, I know, I've had to look for parts for them, like T-Cases, motor mounts, and wiring harnesses, you can't find a thing. However, there are a lot of used B-Series motors around in old school buses, most of them scrapped because the Allison 545 behind them blew out. I work as much as I do to take care of my family and my hobbies, one of which being my saws, I'm sure even you can respect that, and I go to school full time to better myself, and perhaps one day get a job that'll support me through retirement, isn't that what we all want? I've seen plenty of GM trucks with Solid axles under them, even a few ex diesel's (mostly 6.5's, but there are at least 2 in NY that HAD D-Max's and went to Cummins, with solid axle fronts). Baja isn't street driving, or towing, but they sure do use a lot of solid axles in the rear... They use front ends that cost more than 3 new trucks combined, and in off-road racing, unsprung weight is the enemy, so IFS is used in MOST applications. How many Mack, Western Star, Volvo, Freightliner, etc, etc, etc, trucks do you see with IFS? NONE. How many rock crawler rigs do you see with IFS? NONE. How many full blown pulling trucks do you see with IFS? There might be a handful, but the vast majority are solid axle, solid suspension fronts. IFS will NEVER be stronger than a solid front axle, there are just too many moving parts, and joints to fail. How does the length of time that Dodge/Cummins have been around have anything to do with winning? Toyota has been in NCTS (NASCAR truck series) for just a few years, and is dominating. Guys are dumping 2-3 times more money into the GM trucks to compete with Cummins powered Dodges, and yes, some are winning, but wait until the Dodge guys start sinking the same amount into a truck, then compare them. And anyone who doesn't believe the old 12V Cummins are the most capable, dependable engine ever put into a P/U is ignorant... There is a reason the DHRA allows dual CP3 pumps in pulling classes, but nothing bigger than a P-Pump.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> Why Cummins are transplanted into everything, while D-Max's aren't... I know the answer already, so whatever...




My guess is because it's much easier swap. Also, they are much more plentiful.


----------



## 04ultra

motoroilmccall said:


> Why Cummins are transplanted into everything, while D-Max's aren't... I know the answer already, so whatever...
> 
> BIG JAKE, We have a lot of scrap yards up here in the rust belt, you can't find Dodge Diesels anywhere, I know, I've had to look for parts for them, like T-Cases, motor mounts, and wiring harnesses, you can't find a thing. However, there are a lot of used B-Series motors around in old school buses, most of them scrapped because the Allison 545 behind them blew out. I work as much as I do to take care of my family and my hobbies, one of which being my saws, I'm sure even you can respect that, and I go to school full time to better myself, and perhaps one day get a job that'll support me through retirement, isn't that what we all want? I've seen plenty of GM trucks with Solid axles under them, even a few ex diesel's (mostly 6.5's, but there are at least 2 in NY that HAD D-Max's and went to Cummins, with solid axle fronts). Baja isn't street driving, or towing, but they sure do use a lot of solid axles in the rear... They use front ends that cost more than 3 new trucks combined, and in off-road racing, unsprung weight is the enemy, so IFS is used in MOST applications. How many Mack, Western Star, Volvo, Freightliner, etc, etc, etc, trucks do you see with IFS? NONE. How many rock crawler rigs do you see with IFS? NONE. *How many full blown pulling trucks do you see with IFS?* There might be a handful, but the vast majority are solid axle, solid suspension fronts. IFS will NEVER be stronger than a solid front axle, there are just too many moving parts, and joints to fail. How does the length of time that Dodge/Cummins have been around have anything to do with winning? Toyota has been in NCTS (NASCAR truck series) for just a few years, and is dominating. Guys are dumping 2-3 times more money into the GM trucks to compete with Cummins powered Dodges, and yes, some are winning, but wait until the Dodge guys start sinking the same amount into a truck, then compare them. And anyone who doesn't believe the old 12V Cummins are the most capable, dependable engine ever put into a P/U is ignorant... There is a reason the DHRA allows dual CP3 pumps in pulling classes, but nothing bigger than a P-Pump.



Stock road ready make mine a D-Max ........

Leaf spring/king pin is cheap to build...................


Whats the deal with the 98 1/2 to 2002 cummins.............Are they the black sheep???


IMO I would rather drive a IFS across country in a pickup than a bouncy solid axle....But then again I like to eat breakfast and not wear it ...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 



Im still wondering if Dodge/Cummins will be made in the future.....


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall said:


> Toyota has been in NCTS (NASCAR truck series) for just a few years, and is dominating.



Toyota is dominating because there engines are not held to the same standards as dodge and chevy. Nascar feared that it would take a couple of years for the toyo teams to catch up so they gave them a little help. If you knew anything about nascar you would know that they are already planning to take the "help" away next season. this is why the toyo's have about 25 to 30 hp on the field. And even with that it looks like the cup will be going to a chevy again.
:greenchainsaw:


----------



## motoroilmccall

newby79 said:


> Toyota is dominating because there engines are not held to the same standards as dodge and chevy. Nascar feared that it would take a couple of years for the toyo teams to catch up so they gave them a little help. If you knew anything about nascar you would know that they are already planning to take the "help" away next season. this is why the toyo's have about 25 to 30 hp on the field. And even with that it looks like the cup will be going to a chevy again.
> :greenchainsaw:



Yet they dominated the sprint cup series as well, even without some of the best teams and drivers. And yes, the cup will be going to a Chevy again... Honestly after they took the win away from Smith and gave it to Stewart I knew NASCAR was a sham, sorry if you don't think so, just my opinion.

Ultra, the 98.5-02 were the VP44 trucks, not exactly top dog of the Cummins productions. Not horrible, but not great. I put them somewhere above the 6.0 and 6.4, and below the D-Max or other Cummins mills. Guys complain about the pumps failing, but Carter is mostly to blame, the lift pumps fail, provide no fuel pressure to the injection pump, they lose lubrication, and burn up. The Carter lift pumps were junk, most guys replace them with an aftermarket unit and never have a problem. My 99 has 200K miles on it on the original pump, but I have a Haisley lift pump on it to supplement the Carter. 

I don't mind the ride in any of my trucks, although an unloaded 1 ton will bruise a kidney on the way to the landing. It isn't as plush as a Chevy, but it lasts longer, and it is a truck after all. If I wanted a nice ride I'd be driving a Lexus...

Peacock, there are plenty of D-Max donor motors to be found, just gotta know where to look. And I don't believe for a second that a 1200lb, 4ft long Cummins is easier to transplant than a 3ft long, 750lb D-Max. If you're talking electronics wise, then sure, a 12V is easier to swap in, but a CR Cummins is about as easy to wire as a D-Max, so that point is nil too.


----------



## newby79

motoroilmccall said:


> Yet they dominated the sprint cup series as well, even without some of the best teams and drivers. And yes, the cup will be going to a Chevy again... Honestly after they took the win away from Smith and gave it to Stewart I knew NASCAR was a sham, sorry if you don't think so, just my opinion.



I was talking about the sprint cup I did not see you were talking about the trucks sorry for the confusion.


----------



## motoroilmccall

newby79 said:


> I was talking about the sprint cup I did not see you were talking about the trucks sorry for the confusion.



Not a big deal, actually, you can talk about both and Toyota still did well for being so young in the sport (I hate Toyota BTW, the company, not their vehicles, although I despise some of those as well...)


----------



## 04ultra

Hey I can get a 2001 Dodge 3/4 ext 4x4 Cummins auto for 9000.00 with 92,000 miles .......Is that a great deal????


----------



## Peacock

04ultra said:


> Hey I can get a 2001 Dodge 3/4 ext 4x4 Cummins auto for 9000.00 with 92,000 miles .......Is that a great deal????



Only if you can swap in a Duramax/Allison.

:greenchainsaw:


----------



## motoroilmccall

04ultra said:


> Hey I can get a 2001 Dodge 3/4 ext 4x4 Cummins auto for 9000.00 with 92,000 miles .......Is that a great deal????



2 years ago I would have said yes... Its not a bad deal by any means, but in this market I think you can do better. Of course, it depends on where you are. My buddy has an 03 2500 4x4 D-Max he's trying to dump after just 67K miles, wants my Dodge but I won't give it up. $12,000 and he still can't find a buyer. Market just ain't what it used to be.


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> Only if you can swap in a Duramax/Allison.
> 
> :greenchainsaw:



Why degrade the dodge?:deadhorse:


----------



## Peacock

eric_271 said:


> Why degrade the dodge?:deadhorse:



Who said anything about degrading a Dodge. I just mentioned putting in the most powerful and refined diesel currently available.


----------



## eric_271

Peacock said:


> Who said anything about degrading a Dodge. I just mentioned putting in the most powerful and refined diesel currently available.



The computer was tweaked to give it more advertized H.P. You think Dodge cant do the same for an extra 15 H.P.. It had to be refined, they were putting to much H.P. to a light duty engine.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra

motoroilmccall said:


> 2 years ago I would have said yes... Its not a bad deal by any means, but in this market I think you can do better. Of course, it depends on where you are. My buddy has an 03 2500 4x4 D-Max he's trying to dump after just 67K miles, wants my Dodge but I won't give it up. $12,000 and he still can't find a buyer. Market just ain't what it used to be.



Well it really isnt a good deal.......needs tires, brakes , pump and injector work and front end parts......He just said they wanted over 5000.00 to get her up to snuff.... Is it true that a pump and injectors for 2500.00 installed??


I guess you could add a big stereo to kill the drone noise in the cab on the hi-way too


----------



## Kennygee

If I could BUILD a truck it would be a Ford F-350 with a Cummins engine with the new Duramax Allison auto trans. Sadly no such animal exist on the dealer lots but some have been built by individuals. Until the Fords get better front end ,the Duramax more balls, and the Dodges get rid of that terrible cat thing i won't buy a diesel. My .02 Worth


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> You're right there with Peacock... Don't answer questions... Reminds me of Obama.
> 
> I HAD a daily driving puller truck, it was my 98, and no matter what you say, your Chevy COULD NOT have kept up with it, and yes, it was built to the hilt. I'd love to come down where ever you are, and if you really want to get something set up, check out http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/chickenlight . Thats the Upstate Bombers Diesel Forum, you can really talk trucks there, and the guys are local. I will not however enter my 97 in a truck pull, I have to drive the thing home, so if something happens to break, it puts me in a bind, and to be honest, while it would do fine in the stock class, most of it comes down to the driver (I've seen guys with half as much HP beat guys with much more money in their trucks, simply because they know how to pull), and I don't have any experience pulling with my setup. You took 3rd with you're truck, but what trucks won? Which pull was it, because I can find the results.
> 
> So here are the questions:
> 1. Cummins' are transplanted into PS Fords, and DM Chevy's (along with a million other things), why aren't D-Max's planted into Dodges or Fords?
> 2. Where are you located? What part of the state, I'd love to go down and drink some beers and have a little competition, but I don't exactly have free time available whenever, I work 2 jobs and go to school full time.
> 3. If IFS is so good under the Chevy, why is it guys swap to Solid axles quite regularly?
> 4. If Dodge can't compete with the Chevy anymore as you say, then why do Cummins powered Dodges still hold the fastest 1/4 miles times, dominate every pulling circuit in the country, and have the greatest aftermarket support?
> 
> Again, I'm not saying Chevy is a bad truck, or that the D-Max isn't a good motor, but you ARE saying that Dodge builds a crappy truck, and that's so far from the truth you sound like a politician :biggrinbounce2: .
> 
> Oh yeah, and all 3 of my trucks are paid for, and I'm quite happy with them... That's what makes them the best in my eyes.



I have been a member of dieselbombers since its beginings, and I am also a member of 3 other diesel forums so I think Im getting pretty up to date info.

The truck pull I got third in was YURKEWECZ OUTLAW TRUCK PULLS just off the Fonda/fultonville exit, feel free to look it up or I can post a pic of the plaque if you need more proof. This was the first (TRANSITION SLED) pull I ever entered so there goes another one of your expert theories. I have answered all your questions you just need to stop the mindless babling long enough to comprehend some one elses opinion for once. Also I never said a strait axle was not better then a IFS *it is *hands down, I simply said with some minor aftermarket goodies you can make the IFS pretty dam strong IMO.. Ok next, Cummins have been around 3 times as long as the duramax making aftermarket parts cheaper and more available hence more donor motors and such for different transplants. plus its a good motor and way cheaper and readily available so why not use a cummins? More and more duramax's are making there way into projects you just do not hear about as many because the D-max is only 7 yrs old. As far as your last statement again I never said the cummins could not compete with the D-max it can but its days are numbered if cummins does not step up its game. The dodge on the other hand can't compete with the chevy on any LeVeL.


----------



## custom8726

Kennygee said:


> If I could BUILD a truck it would be a Ford F-350 with a Cummins engine with the new Duramax Allison auto trans. Sadly no such animal exist on the dealer lots but some have been built by individuals. Until the Fords get better front end ,the Duramax more balls, and the Dodges get rid of that terrible cat thing i won't buy a diesel. My .02 Worth



That cat thing is the DPF and its on all the new diesel pick ups regardless of brand. Duramax more balls? Its got the most factory power out of all of them so I think you have been misinformed.


----------



## nilzlofgren

Well, now that we got the diesel truck question settled, who makes the best pencils? Dixon Ticonderoga or Staedtler. :monkey:


----------



## 04ultra

nilzlofgren said:


> Well, now that we got the diesel truck question settled, who makes the best pencils? Dixon Ticonderoga or Staedtler. :monkey:





GMC


----------



## eric_271

custom8726 said:


> I have been a member of dieselbombers since its beginings, and I am also a member of 3 other diesel forums so I think Im getting pretty up to date info.
> 
> The truck pull I got third in was YURKEWECZ OUTLAW TRUCK PULLS just off the Fonda/fultonville exit, feel free to look it up or I can post a pic of the plaque if you need more proof. This was the first (TRANSITION SLED) pull I ever entered so there goes another one of your expert theories. I have answered all your questions you just need to stop the mindless babling long enough to comprehend some one elses opinion for once. Also I never said a strait axle was not better then a IFS *it is *hands down, I simply said with some minor aftermarket goodies you can make the IFS pretty dam strong IMO.. Ok next, Cummins have been around 3 times as long as the duramax making aftermarket parts cheaper and more available hence more donor motors and such for different transplants. plus its a good motor and way cheaper and readily available so why not use a cummins? More and more duramax's are making there way into projects you just do not hear about as many because the D-max is only 7 yrs old. As far as your last statement again I never said the cummins could not compete with the D-max it can but its days are numbered if cummins does not step up its game. The dodge on the other hand can't compete with the chevy on any LeVeL.



What you say just don't jive with what I see on the highway. The Dodges still the main trucks pulling real world heavy loads. Its very rare to see a Duramax pulling anything close. This is from kansas, oklahoma to texas. What gives?


----------



## custom8726

eric_271 said:


> What you say just don't jive with what I see on the highway. The Dodges still the main trucks pulling real world heavy loads. Its very rare to see a Duramax pulling anything close. This is from kansas, oklahoma to texas. What gives?



Stop smoking all that wacky weed.


----------



## eric_271

custom8726 said:


> Stop smoking all that wacky weed.



Put the crack pipe down now.


----------



## 046

who's been smoking that wacky weed? 



custom8726 said:


> Stop smoking all that wacky weed.





custom8726 said:


> The dodge on the other hand can't compete with the chevy on any LeVeL.


----------



## 04ultra

From what Im hearing the DCP had issues between 1998 1/2 and 2002.....Is this true??? I just dont want to make a mistake buying a bad truck going on the reputation of better years.....


I have seen plenty of front end issues with Dodge truck at 30,000 miles wandering all over the road ....


----------



## Peacock

04ultra said:


> From what Im hearing the DCP had issues between 1998 1/2 and 2002.....Is this true??? I just dont want to make a mistake buying a bad truck going on the reputation of better years.....



They are to say the least....problematic. And it tends to be pretty expensive. Course, there's always the aftermarket.


----------



## eric_271

04ultra said:


> From what Im hearing the DCP had issues between 1998 1/2 and 2002.....Is this true??? I just dont want to make a mistake buying a bad truck going on the reputation of better years.....
> 
> 
> I have seen plenty of front end issues with Dodge truck at 30,000 miles wandering all over the road ....



Yep, it pretty true. As for the wandering, I cant speak for 2 wheel drives but my 4x4 got bad at 35,000. Bushings in the track bar go bad fast. You cant replace the bushings on the stock bar which is non adjustable also. I bought an after market adjustable track bar from solid steel industries. It is beefy, has a lot better bushings in it and are replaceable if they ever do wear out.


----------



## Kennygee

*Best Diesel?*

We have a fleet of 30+ trucks, all3/4 to 1 ton Dodge, Ford ,GMC. from 1997 to 2008. When we have to haul a tractor ,small dozer, etc. we use a Dodge , when we have to go on a trip 50- 100 mi. we take a Ford, When we go to the shop it is most of the time to drop off one of the GMC/Chey's. The 4 wheel drive Dodge do have some front end problems, but nothing compared to new 2007 Ford 4WD . If You leave the new 2008 dodge idling for more than 20 min. CAT. full warning light, not so on Ford or GMC. THAT I HAVE SEEN. I really like the GMC trans but real world torque just does't seem to be there. the 6.no nuts Ford is probably just as bad , but it does ride real nice. The 7.3 Ford was a LOT better engine . The older 5.9? Dodge 24 valve without the new Cart is probably the best of the lot, but the older auto trans had a habit of puking its guts to often when pulling a heavy load in 110 deg. heat. They all have there good and bad points, I personally haven't seen anything from the GMC 2007 or earlier to want to buy one of them, have not driven the newest ones,. We don't have any manual trans trucks because we have people that have enough trouble driving ones with only 2 pedals!!


----------



## eric_271

Kennygee said:


> We have a fleet of 30+ trucks, all3/4 to 1 ton Dodge, Ford ,GMC. from 1997 to 2008. When we have to haul a tractor ,small dozer, etc. we use a Dodge , when we have to go on a trip 50- 100 mi. we take a Ford, When we go to the shop it is most of the time to drop off one of the GMC/Chey's. The 4 wheel drive Dodge do have some front end problems, but nothing compared to new 2007 Ford 4WD . If You leave the new 2008 dodge idling for more than 20 min. CAT. full warning light, not so on Ford or GMC. THAT I HAVE SEEN. I really like the GMC trans but real world torque just does't seem to be there. the 6.no nuts Ford is probably just as bad , but it does ride real nice. The 7.3 Ford was a LOT better engine . The older 5.9? Dodge 24 valve without the new Cart is probably the best of the lot, but the older auto trans had a habit of puking its guts to often when pulling a heavy load in 110 deg. heat. They all have there good and bad points, I personally haven't seen anything from the GMC 2007 or earlier to want to buy one of them, have not driven the newest ones,. We don't have any manual trans trucks because we have people that have enough trouble driving ones with only 2 pedals!!



A fair and balanced review.


----------



## 04ultra

eric_271 said:


> A fair and balanced review.



And If he would have said DMax was best you'd be whining .....


----------



## eric_271

04ultra said:


> And If he would have said DMax was best you'd be whining .....



Worse than that.


----------



## 04ultra

eric_271 said:


> Worse than that.



Im glad my boss sold are 3 Dodges.....2000 thru 2002 .......Cant plow snow with trucks sitting in the shop being repaired.........



Its nice not to have to listen to all that noise all nite plowing........We still have 4 /2000 thru 2002 Fords 7.3's and 5/ 04 thru 06 GMC D-Max's .......I drive all and you can make mine a D-Max....




.


----------



## stihl sawing

04ultra said:


> From what Im hearing the DCP had issues between 1998 1/2 and 2002.....Is this true??? I just dont want to make a mistake buying a bad truck going on the reputation of better years.....
> 
> 
> I have seen plenty of front end issues with Dodge truck at 30,000 miles wandering all over the road ....


Mine is a 2000 model and i have not had any issues other than the crappy fuel system. I completely did away with it and went with a fass fuel system. Have had no trouble since. The truck has 153,000 miles.


----------



## eric_271

04ultra said:


> Im glad my boss sold are 3 Dodges.....2000 thru 2002 .......Cant plow snow with trucks sitting in the shop being repaired.........
> 
> 
> 
> Its nice not to have to listen to all that noise all nite plowing........We still have 4 /2000 thru 2002 Fords 7.3's and 5/ 04 thru 06 GMC D-Max's .......I drive all and you can make mine a D-Max....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I will take my 05 Cummins Dodge over any of that mess. Oh yea, the 05 is real quiet.


----------



## 04ultra

eric_271 said:


> I will take my 05 Cummins Dodge over any of that mess. Oh yea, the 05 is real quiet.




The only mess I saw were the 3 that were sold........


----------



## eric_271

04ultra said:


> The only mess I saw were the 3 that were sold........



They were pretty noisey and a lot less power then my 05. I test drove an 02 and the noise was a deal breaker. Make mine my 05, still better then the crap your boss kept.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra

eric_271 said:


> They were pretty noisey and a lot less power then my 05. I test drove an 02 and the noise was a deal breaker. Make mine *my 05, still better then the crap your boss kept*.:hmm3grin2orange:





*In your opinion*............


----------



## eric_271

04ultra said:


> *In your opinion*............



Come back and see me little boy when you have your own truck to brag about instead of your boss's.


----------



## 04ultra

eric_271 said:


> Come back and see me little boy when you have your own truck to brag about instead of your boss's.












I sold my 06 in spring this year........I dont need a truck like this anymore....Im switching to a new single rear when I see something I like...


I dont need to brag about my trucks.......I just use them......


----------



## ropensaddle

04ultra said:


> I sold my 06 in spring this year........I dont need a truck like this anymore....Im switching to a new single rear when I see something I like...
> 
> 
> I dont need to brag about my trucks.......I just use them......


I don't know about the truck but I would brag on the shop


----------



## motoroilmccall

I plow snow with 2 Dodge's, never had a lick of trouble... Of course, the first thing either one of them got was a Thuren track bar, once that was in, nothing else failed. Brakes are great, ball joints have held up better than the Fords we used to have (except the D60's with King Pins). The ONLY thing we ever had a problem with when plowing snow was front U-Joints in the driveshaft, because without grease fittings they all suck. 

BTW... My 12V's are a hell of a lot quieter than a 24V, or a 6.0, or 7.3, and they both have exhaust systems on them. Even with the stacks on my 97 highway drone is about the same as the stock Ford system. The GM trucks sure are refined, but if you're that limp wristed you really don't need to be driving a diesel truck now do you?


----------



## 04ultra

motoroilmccall said:


> *so IFS is used in MOST applications. How many Mack, Western Star, Volvo, Freightliner, etc, etc, etc, trucks do you see with IFS? NONE.* How many rock crawler rigs do you see with IFS? NONE. How many full blown pulling trucks do you see with IFS? There might be a handful, but the vast majority are solid axle, solid suspension fronts. IFS will NEVER be stronger than a solid front axle, there are just too many moving parts, and joints to fail.






Are the *Mack, Western Star, Volvo, Freightliner, etc, etc, etc* you mention power axles or just solid steer axles???......


I could not believe that the Dodge 2500,3500 2 wheel drives are .....IFS ....  




I'm the market for a new 2500 4x4 and will keep looking .........Not sure who is going to be making them in the near future...
.


----------



## 046

man... you are in the driver's seat... if you are in the market for a diesel truck. prices are wild! 

for instance... a 2005 cummins diesel... I've seen $10k to $25k asking prices... the widest range I've ever seen. 

12v cummins traditionally have one of the best resale value. a low mileage 12v typically will bring the same $$ as a much newer truck. even 12v prices have dropped...

if you are thinking dodge... stay away from 98.5-2002 models... you can thank me later... 

go with 94-98 12v or 2003- newer CTD... with prices soooo low.. I'd go with a low miles 2003-2004...which is supposed to be the best years for common rail cummins. 

there's a 2004 extended cab 2500 for $8900 on craigslist tulsa.. looks a bit rough. 



04ultra said:


> Are the *Mack, I'm the market for a new 2500 4x4 and will keep looking .........Not sure who is going to be making them in the near future...
> .*


----------



## eric_271

046 said:


> man... you are in the driver's seat... if you are in the market for a diesel truck. prices are wild!
> 
> for instance... a 2005 cummins diesel... I've seen $10k to $25k asking prices... the widest range I've ever seen.
> 
> 12v cummins traditionally have one of the best resale value. a low mileage 12v typically will bring the same $$ as a much newer truck. even 12v prices have dropped...
> 
> if you are thinking dodge... stay away from 98.5-2002 models... you can thank me later...
> 
> go with 94-98 12v or 2003- newer CTD... with prices soooo low.. I'd go with a low miles 2003-2004...which is supposed to be the best years for common rail cummins.
> 
> there's a 2004 extended cab 2500 for $8900 on craigslist tulsa.. looks a bit rough.



Most here in ks go to Oklahoma to buy theirs. The dealers just wont work with you. You can go south and buy the same $45.000 truck for $35.000. At least until now. For the first time ever they are selling off the rest of their 08s for $28.000. From what I understand these dealers have to buy whats left on the lot here shortly.


----------



## nilzlofgren

After reading all the posts, I'm so glad to have the non turbo 7.3. Only 175 hp, but its always there for me. The only problem I have with the truck, is every once in a while, there is a clunk under the drivers floor board. cant find anything loose though.


----------



## motoroilmccall

04ultra said:


> Are the *Mack, Western Star, Volvo, Freightliner, etc, etc, etc* you mention power axles or just solid steer axles???......
> 
> 
> I could not believe that the Dodge 2500,3500 2 wheel drives are .....IFS ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the market for a new 2500 4x4 and will keep looking .........Not sure who is going to be making them in the near future...
> .



Well since we were talking 4x4's. I was talking powered drive axles... 2WD's with IFS are more than capable of handling the lighter duty task's that are asked of them, they don't see rough terrain (or shouldn't), and they don't have to deal with steering and transmitting power. Thats why every P/U uses IFS in 2wd applications. 

If you really think 3/4 ton trucks are going away you need to think again... People don't buy 3/4 ton trucks to haul people around like they do with 1/2 tons (which is why the 1/2 ton market is shot right now), they use them for work, and they will always use them for work. They are big moneymakers for manufacturers, and they won't let them die. 

Nilz, if its a clunk under the drivers floorboard, check your leaf sring perch bushing... Its probably original and shot, see it a lot on older Ford's, Jeep's, Dodge's, Chevy's, basically anything with a leaf sprung front end.


----------



## nilzlofgren

motoroilmccall said:


> Nilz, if its a clunk under the drivers floorboard, check your leaf sring perch bushing... Its probably original and shot, see it a lot on older Ford's, Jeep's, Dodge's, Chevy's, basically anything with a leaf sprung front end.



You know, I've never even thought of that. But, now that you mention it, it does make sense. I'll check. Is the bushing something I can get from Ford or NAPA? Thanks Motor.


----------



## motoroilmccall

nilzlofgren said:


> You know, I've never even thought of that. But, now that you mention it, it does make sense. I'll check. Is the bushing something I can get from Ford or NAPA? Thanks Motor.



Absolutely, you can get them just about anywhere. If you are gonna keep the truck a while I'd recommend calling Energy Suspension and getting a set of Poly Bushings, they'll never wear out.


----------



## 04ultra

motoroilmccall said:


> Well since we were talking 4x4's.I was talking powered drive axles... 2WD's with IFS are more than capable of handling the lighter duty task's that are asked of them, they don't see rough terrain (or shouldn't), and they don't have to deal with steering and transmitting power. Thats why every P/U uses IFS in 2wd applications.
> 
> If you really think 3/4 ton trucks are going away you need to think again... People don't buy 3/4 ton trucks to haul people around like they do with 1/2 tons (which is why the 1/2 ton market is shot right now), they use them for work, and they will always use them for work. They are big moneymakers for manufacturers, and they won't let them die.










*Never said 3/4 tons were going away...Was talking about who was going to be building them.........*There might be some big changes ahead in the brands....


----------



## epicklein22

04ultra said:


> *Never said 3/4 tons were going away...Was talking about who was going to be building them.........*There might be some big changes ahead in the brands....



Yup, you d-max versus cummins guys might see the end of the road soon with GM trying to buy Chrysler. If the govt says no, GM has enough extra cash to go to till next summer and then that is it....

The company that owns Chrysler now just bought it to resell for profit down the road, so it will be interesting to see what the future holds....and who will get the cummins contract, I bet ford would be going for it hard if they are still in business too.


----------



## eric_271

epicklein22 said:


> Yup, you d-max versus cummins guys might see the end of the road soon with GM trying to buy Chrysler. If the govt says no, GM has enough extra cash to go to till next summer and then that is it....
> 
> The company that owns Chrysler now just bought it to resell for profit down the road, so it will be interesting to see what the future holds....and who will get the cummins contract, I bet ford would be going for it hard if they are still in business too.



From what I have seen the same bank owns controlling intrest in both GM and Chrysler and its looking very likely that they are going to loan the money to GM to buy Chrysler, not a done deal but looks like it. More than likely Chrysler will be killed off would be my bet. If that happens the Cummins contract is probly up for grabs. I may be going to GM or Ford for engine parts.


----------



## motoroilmccall

We'll see what happens, the auto industry thrives off of downturns like this, it just takes 5-10 years... Look at the 80's.

Cerberus said they would "Loan" GM the money to buy Chrysler if GM gave them GMAC... I highly doubt GM would give up their Cash Cow to buy Chrysler, its like getting nothing for something to them, they already have everything they want besides the Jeep brand, and Dodge going away. 

However, if GM does get Chrysler, I would find it hard to believe that Dodge would go away, their are just too many loyalists, too much history, and too many sales for GM to axe them...

But what do I know...


----------



## 04ultra

motoroilmccall said:


> We'll see what happens, the auto industry thrives off of downturns like this, it just takes 5-10 years... Look at the 80's.
> 
> Cerberus said they would "Loan" GM the money to buy Chrysler if GM gave them GMAC... I highly doubt GM would give up their Cash Cow to buy Chrysler, its like getting nothing for something to them, they already have everything they want besides the Jeep brand, and Dodge going away.
> 
> However, if GM does get Chrysler, I would find it hard to believe that Dodge would go away, their are just too many loyalists, too much history, and too many sales for GM to axe them...
> 
> *But what do I know*...





Not a damn thing like the rest of us........


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> I highly doubt GM would give up their Cash Cow to buy Chrysler, its like getting nothing for something to them, they already have everything they want besides the Jeep brand, and Dodge going away.



Since when is GMAC a cash cow? I thought they were losing money with all the 0% stuff and stopping the leasing.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Peacock said:


> Since when is GMAC a cash cow? I thought they were losing money with all the 0% stuff and stopping the leasing.



LOL... NO! GMAC since its inception has always been a huge money maker for GM. In the last year it hasn't done to well, but nothing has, and it will rebound. The thing with GMAC is, it almost always breaks even, even in these bad times, and almost never looses money, but when times are good to great, it makes tons of money, and is usually what makes GM's profits so inflated.


----------



## epicklein22

You can only speculate on what will happen, that is for sure. Even if you have loyalist, history and all that good stuff, profit is what matters. If none of the big 3 can generate profit, they better fix it or they will go bye-bye.

I hope they can turn it around though, I like what they have been coming out 100 times better compared to 10 years ago.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> LOL... NO! GMAC since its inception has always been a huge money maker for GM. In the last year it hasn't done to well, but nothing has, and it will rebound. The thing with GMAC is, it almost always breaks even, even in these bad times, and almost never looses money, but when times are good to great, it makes tons of money, and is usually what makes GM's profits so inflated.



I meant to correct my post after I researched it a bit. I must have been thinking of the troubles Ford had with it's credit arma few years ago.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Peacock said:


> I meant to correct my post after I researched it a bit. I must have been thinking of the troubles Ford had with it's credit arma few years ago.



Hey, we all get a little back asswards every once in a while. I set my clocks an hour ahead saturday night, got to church awful early though! 

And yeah, all we can do is speculate.. Who else is ready to pound a few to this plunking economy?


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> Hey, we all get a little back asswards every once in a while. I set my clocks an hour ahead saturday night, got to church awful early though!
> 
> And yeah, all we can do is speculate.. Who else is ready to pound a few to this plunking economy?



Yeah I was awake at 6 am Sunday tired as hell, but unable to sleep. Last night I couldn't get to sleep til after midnight. Stupid daylight savings.....

I'm all for drinking some High Life tonight!


----------



## motoroilmccall

Haha... Yeah, DST screws with me twice a year as well.

Downing a couple Molson's usually helps alleviate that issue.


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> Haha... Yeah, DST screws with me twice a year as well.
> 
> Downing a couple Molson's usually helps alleviate that issue.



Molson and Dodge, man you got it ruff!! Lol...


----------



## motoroilmccall

Well what do you drink? Labatts? That stuff makes my bowels shimmy... I tell ya, after a night of that stuff I could poop through a screen door and never touch a wire.  

Of course, I'll take a Guiness over a Molson any day, or a Killians, or a whole slew of other good beers, but I like my Molson for an everynight drinker. Goes down smooth. I'm not much for Pilsners, just taste like skunk piss to me.


----------



## Peacock

You've had skunk piss?


----------



## ropensaddle

Peacock said:


> You've had skunk piss?



Use it for cover scent sometimes!


----------



## motoroilmccall

Peacock said:


> You've had skunk piss?



I was in a fraternity... So yes.

:greenchainsaw:


----------



## nilzlofgren

motoroilmccall said:


> Well what do you drink? Labatts? That stuff makes my bowels shimmy... I tell ya, after a night of that stuff I could poop through a screen door and never touch a wire.
> 
> Of course, I'll take a Guiness over a Molson any day, or a Killians, or a whole slew of other good beers, but I like my Molson for an everynight drinker. Goes down smooth. I'm not much for Pilsners, just taste like skunk piss to me.



Killians is the only beer I drink.


----------



## custom8726

I am enjoying a nice SAMUEL ADAMS WINTER LAGER at the moment!!


----------



## epicklein22

custom8726 said:


> I am enjoying a nice SAMUEL ADAMS WINTER LAGER at the moment!!


 
You guys are from N.Y. right, where is the Honey Brown?:greenchainsaw:


----------



## motoroilmccall

Seems to be big in Rochester. I'd grab one every now and then. I actually grabbed a 6 pack of Smithwick's for last night. Good stuff, easier to drink than Guinness (I LOVE Guinness, but its heavy so you can only have 1 or 2 before you're full), but its made by Guinness.


----------



## custom8726

motoroilmccall said:


> Seems to be big in Rochester. I'd grab one every now and then. I actually grabbed a 6 pack of Smithwick's for last night. Good stuff, easier to drink than Guinness (I LOVE Guinness, but its heavy so you can only have 1 or 2 before you're full), but its made by Guinness.



Mix the sammy's with the guinness = BLK & TAN


----------



## epicklein22

motoroilmccall said:


> Seems to be big in Rochester. I'd grab one every now and then. I actually grabbed a 6 pack of Smithwick's for last night. Good stuff, easier to drink than Guinness (I LOVE Guinness, but its heavy so you can only have 1 or 2 before you're full), but its made by Guinness.



Guinness doesn't make Smithwick's, they just own it. Along with Harp. By the way, Smithwick's is Ireland's oldest ale. I like it a lot better than Guinness actually.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Eh, thats what I meant... I like a good Black and Tan, then there is the Black and Blue (Guinness over Labatts Blue), not my favorite, then the Black and Red (Guinness over Killians) which is excellent, then if you like to mix a little, the "Dark side of the Moon" (Guinness over Blue Moon), which is another excellent combo, or one of my favorites for every now and then, the "Chocolate covered Cherry" which is Guinness over Sam Adams Cherry Wheat.

I like Smithwick's for an everyday beer, but a Guinness every now and then hits the spot, just love that coffee-ish aftertaste. I'm not too big on Harp, but again, it hits the stop from time to time.


----------



## t613

This thread is AWESOME!!! It went from just diesel trucks to diesel trucks and BEER!!!! This could be the best thread EVER!!!

There does seem to be a lot of Cummins love in this thread though.


----------



## eric_271

Read this morning GM has suspended talks on buying Chrysler. GM will run out of money in 6 months or less, Ford is good until 2010 and Chrysler it self in a little better shape. Obama taking steps already to help the auto industry.


----------



## epicklein22

Funny how you guys are in down for the govt. giving money to the large companies but when someone offers tax breaks to the poor and middle class at the expense of the rich, it is socialism.


----------



## eric_271

epicklein22 said:


> Funny how you guys are in down for the govt. giving money to the large companies but when someone offers tax breaks to the poor and middle class at the expense of the rich, it is socialism.



I repeated what I read. The rich in this country will take what ever you will give them just like the poor. It does seem like the rich are making out better then anyone else.


----------



## motoroilmccall

I wouldn't bail anyone out... Rich, poor, auto industry, healthcare, you name it... The economy is self balancing, as long as you don't step in a throw the whole thing off balance. Look at history, this type of thing happens ever 80-100 years. Anyone else wonder if there will ever be a "Gold Standard" again like there used to be?


----------



## nilzlofgren

motoroilmccall said:


> I wouldn't bail anyone out... Rich, poor, auto industry, healthcare, you name it... The economy is self balancing, as long as you don't step in a throw the whole thing off balance. Look at history, this type of thing happens ever 80-100 years. Anyone else wonder if there will ever be a "Gold Standard" again like there used to be?



I'd maybe bail out the auto industry. So many are affected Directly and indirectly, it might be better to help.


----------



## STLfirewood

I just got laid off from Chrysler. They closed the minivan plant here in St. Louis. I have been there for 15years. There is only one reason they are talking about helping the auto industry. It's money and only money. There are a ton f people receiving a pension from Chrysler Ford and GM. If they go belly up the government has to pick those pensions up at 60%. That is a ton of money. It's cheaper to give them low interest loans then it is to take on the pensions.

Scott


----------



## wampum

When the Duramax first came out I was excited and ordered one loaded up nicely but with a 6 speed. Literally like having a baby,it took 9 months to get it. Never had a fly wheel go bad but it did. Next was a throw out bearing,never had one of them go bad either. Then the electrical started,power windows, fuel shut off switch and so on. Really a nice riding lots of power truck when it ran.... Owned a Dodge diesel before,rode like a tank.(1991 model) The Chevy ride was a lot better,but after 2 years I went back to Dodge. Got a 2004 with a 6 speed. So far only a universal joint has gone bad,and in 135 miles I will go past 100,000. I live northwest of Pittsburgh and went to Buffalo recently,on the highway that truck averaged 27 mpg. I wasn't in a hurry and never went over 60 and left it on cruise. Around town I average around 20. Pulling a trailer it dips the lowest was 16 and usually gets 18 or better,depending on hills or level areas.


----------



## Bearcreek

I've never heard of anyone trying to put a Powerstroke or Duramax in a dodge truck. Putting a Cummins in a Ford, however, is a fairly popular swap among diesel performance people. Not as common with the Chevy's. I think there is a very good reason for that. The Cummins is the most powerful and most durable diesel engine available stock in a light truck. The Duramax is a worthy second.


----------



## custom8726

Bearcreek said:


> I've never heard of anyone trying to put a Powerstroke or Duramax in a dodge truck. Putting a Cummins in a Ford, however, is a fairly popular swap among diesel performance people. Not as common with the Chevy's. I think there is a very good reason for that. The Cummins is the most powerful and most durable diesel engine available stock in a light truck. The Duramax is a worthy second.



The complexity and cost of doing a duramax swap is far greater then that of a cummins swap, that coupled with the fact that cummins have been around 3 times as long (HENCE) there are alot more of them available in the scrap yard and such makes it a no brainer for a retrofit into other chassis.. They are both great motors, IMHO...


----------



## jbighump

i just bought my first diesel truck 2 years ago and after lots of research( some thing the old lady says i do to much of) i ended up with a shiny new 2006 dodge quad cab 4x4 diesel w/ the six speed standard. after driving the big three i was most impressed w/ the dodge. tons of torque and plenty of get up and go, the ford was a strait turd very sluggish with lots of lag,the chevy was quick and torqey but it felt like a half ton truck. I have pulled upwards of 12k with my dodge and it pulls it with lots of authority. i regularly pull 8k once a week (water tank) and it feels like pulling an atv on a trailer. i am very glad i got the six speed because dodge doesnt build a very stout auto. i regularly get 24mpg in the summer months w/ alight foot on the highway and 19-20mpg on the old country roads around here. but to each his own.:greenchainsaw:


----------



## ropensaddle

Gimmie a M and an A and an C then a K


----------



## 1 woodpile

Nuzzy said:


> Well, you can get them in Ferd F550s and above... Of course you can get a Cummins in them too
> 
> A Cat powerplant would be sweet for the right application! But they don't wind up real fast making them less ideal for the majority of road drivers. Not saying it would stop me from buying a Cat powered truck though



I heard toyota is working with cat for the tundra...


----------



## motoroilmccall

1 woodpile said:


> I heard toyota is working with cat for the tundra...



They wish...

In fact, Toyota just canceled all plans to put a diesel in a half ton. And Cat has gotten out of highway engines all together for the time being.


----------



## Greg373

Dodge w/ the Cummins. I've got a Powerstroke and I like it but I wish it were a Dodge. I don't like how the Duramax/Chevy has independant front suspension, I like a solid front axle.


----------



## Bearcreek

Nuzzy said:


> Well, you can get them in Ferd F550s and above... Of course you can get a Cummins in them too
> 
> A Cat powerplant would be sweet for the right application! But they don't wind up real fast making them less ideal for the majority of road drivers. Not saying it would stop me from buying a Cat powered truck though



I've not heard of anything but a powerstroke or a V10 in a F550. Could you post a link or something where you got your info?


----------



## motoroilmccall

Bearcreek said:


> I've not heard of anything but a powerstroke or a V10 in a F550. Could you post a link or something where you got your info?



I think he means the F650 or F750... They can't come in the F550.


----------



## Bearcreek

Yeah, I know. I've heard several people claim that you could get a cat or cummins in a 550, usually its the same one's that say ford owns cummins. I was just being a smart azz. Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## 046

just purchased my second Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel ... looked long and hard to find this.

96 12v CTD 4x4 5sp club cab 2500 with 67k miles. needless to say with miles that low, it's in mint condition. first mileage check indicated 29 mpg coming home. that's freakishly high.. must have had a tailwind coming home. went 44 miles on 1.5gal diesel. 

for some reason 5sp in 4x4 2500 12v are extremely hard to find. almost all 2500 4x4 w/12v had auto tranny. seems the 5sp were way more common on 1ton. 

suppose to be 20 to 1 in favor of auto vs std tranny on 12v trucks. 

my 97 CTD 4x4 CC 2500 is solid enough to drive to Alaska and back. 
but I really wanted a manual tranny.... was getting to buy an entire driveline from a burnt truck that had 4x4 + 5sp.


----------



## motoroilmccall

046 said:


> just purchased my second Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel ... looked long and hard to find this.
> 
> 96 12v CTD 4x4 5sp club cab 2500 with 67k miles. needless to say with miles that low, it's in mint condition. first mileage check indicated 29 mpg coming home. that's freakishly high.. must have had a tailwind coming home. went 44 miles on 1.5gal diesel.
> 
> for some reason 5sp in 4x4 2500 12v are extremely hard to find. almost all 2500 4x4 w/12v had auto tranny. seems the 5sp were way more common on 1ton.
> 
> suppose to be 20 to 1 in favor of auto vs std tranny on 12v trucks.
> 
> my 97 CTD 4x4 CC 2500 is solid enough to drive to Alaska and back.
> but I really wanted a manual tranny.... was getting to buy an entire driveline from a burnt truck that had 4x4 + 5sp.



Well I've had 4 of them... Actually, 3 12v's and 1 24V (my current DD)... 3 of those 4 are 5-Spd's. The auto's are way more common for sure, but the good ones are out there. 

There's no way you are getting 29mpg's, unless its downhill, wind at your back, being towed. I'm sure it was a glitch or something. The absolute best I've ever gotten was about 23 with a strong wind at my back headed out to Syracuse (East).


----------



## 046

couldn't believe it either...on the way back home after picking up 96 CTD. filled up my tank all the way to the neck in Wagnor, Ok. then drove home the back way going mostly 65 mph. got into Tulsa, then drove around town a bit....

stopped and pumped 1.6 gallon of diesel all the way to filler neck top. put slightly more in second time... so call it 1.5 gallons for 44 miles. 

that's 29 mpg... probably will never do it again 



motoroilmccall said:


> There's no way you are getting 29mpg's, unless its downhill, wind at your back, being towed. I'm sure it was a glitch or something. The absolute best I've ever gotten was about 23 with a strong wind at my back headed out to Syracuse (East).


----------



## stihl sawing

Well just lost the transmission in the dodge tonight. Like to have not got it home. It wouldn't shift out of first and started to slip bad. The Cummins was roaring from rpm's. I could stop and shift from reverse back to drive and get it to work a little. Hate to think what it's gonna cost to get it rebuilt. It's got 160,000 miles on it and never had any trouble other than replacing the sorry fuel system. This one is not gonna be cheap to fix.


----------



## 046

it could be something really simple to fix... or something expensive. 
besides doing the below procedure, it's really important not to be stomping on fuel when lockout is engaging. let lockout fully engage, then stomp on it. your torque converter will live MUCH longer. 

it also helps to understand where limitations of tranny as matched to a cummins. which produces max torque at 1600 rpm. at that low rpm, transmission is not operating fast enough to produce pressures needed to function at max efficiency. so when pulling large loads, keep your rpm's up. 

I've yanked 30k+ loads with my 97 12v w/auto with no problems. by doing the above. 

start by draining all fluids, then change out to synthetic AFT. while you are in there adjust the clutch bands. (procedure is listed in second link below)

most importantly post this problem on DTR ... assuming you've got a 24 v... this is the correct section http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/forumdisplay.php?f=89

there's a ton of really knowledgeable folks. also cruise by the faq sticky. odds are someone has already posted answers. 

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=110571
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=121534



stihl sawing said:


> Well just lost the transmission in the dodge tonight. Like to have not got it home. It wouldn't shift out of first and started to slip bad. The Cummins was roaring from rpm's. I could stop and shift from reverse back to drive and get it to work a little. Hate to think what it's gonna cost to get it rebuilt. It's got 160,000 miles on it and never had any trouble other than replacing the sorry fuel system. This one is not gonna be cheap to fix.


----------



## stihl sawing

TreeCo said:


> I can't point you in the right direction but I've heard there are some great rebuilds out there that overcome some of the limitations of the original tranny. I've got 180k on my 1996 Dodge and should be doing my homework so I'll be ready when mine goes.....


Thanks TreeCo, Definitely will look into the better ones, would like it to last a little longer next time.


----------



## stihl sawing

046 said:


> it could be something really simple to fix... or something expensive.
> besides doing the below procedure, it's really important not to be stomping on fuel when lockout is engaging. let lockout fully engage, then stomp on it. your torque converter will live MUCH longer.
> 
> it also helps to understand where limitations of tranny as matched to a cummins. which produces max torque at 1600 rpm. at that low rpm, transmission is not operating fast enough to produce pressures needed to function at max efficiency. so when pulling large loads, keep your rpm's up.
> 
> I've yanked 30k+ loads with my 97 12v w/auto with no problems. by doing the above.
> 
> start by draining all fluids, then change out to synthetic AFT. while you are in there adjust the clutch bands. (procedure is listed in second link below)
> 
> most importantly post this problem on DTR ... assuming you've got a 24 v... this is the correct section http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/forumdisplay.php?f=89
> 
> there's a ton of really knowledgeable folks. also cruise by the faq sticky. odds are someone has already posted answers.
> 
> http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=110571
> http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=121534


Yeah it's a big site, I joined it when jack first switched over from TDR, Think i'm member number 19. i go by red rattler over there. Don't post much over there anymore as i stay here now. I learned a lot about the truck when i bought it eight years ago. it is a 2000 model 24 valve. I done a lot of research from that site on about everything that fails on these trucks and have eliminated a few of them. It's a great site for the diesel guys. I had quite a few post over there and they reset all the post counts for some reason that i don't remember. Had it as my home page for years but now this one is it.


----------



## stihl sawing

when it rains it pours.lol My ford is pouring oil out of the rear main seal. Just started today, just gotta smile and move on. Going to put the dodge in the shop tommorrow. next will be the ford. I'm sorry for posting bad news but when it comes to trucks that's all i have.lol I really need my truck right now too. got a lot of hauling and cleaning up to do. Maybe i can tie a rope around some of it and drag it with the motorcycle.lol


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> when it rains it pours.lol My ford is pouring oil out of the rear main seal. Just started today, just gotta smile and move on. Going to put the dodge in the shop tommorrow. next will be the ford. I'm sorry for posting bad news but when it comes to trucks that's all i have.lol I really need my truck right now too. got a lot of hauling and cleaning up to do. Maybe i can tie a rope around some of it and drag it with the motorcycle.lol



But,but,but we have seen your motorcycle back several pages it does good to pull you even if it is a crotch rocket


----------



## stihl sawing

ropensaddle said:


> But,but,but we have seen your motorcycle back several pages it does good to pull you even if it is a crotch rocket


A crotch rocket, It's lucky to get out of it's own way.lol


----------



## stihl sawing

Oh and it's not clean and washed now like in the pic and it also has 34,ooo miles now too.


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> A crotch rocket, It's lucky to get out of it's own way.lol



Oh I thought it was red and looked like a souped up bicycle my bad


----------



## stihl sawing

LMAO, I know what your talkin about now, That stupid bicycle pic. Just repped for it too.


----------



## Mike mandry

stihl sawing said:


> when it rains it pours.lol My ford is pouring oil out of the rear main seal. Just started today, just gotta smile and move on. Going to put the dodge in the shop tommorrow. next will be the ford. I'm sorry for posting bad news but when it comes to trucks that's all i have.lol I really need my truck right now too. got a lot of hauling and cleaning up to do. Maybe i can tie a rope around some of it and drag it with the motorcycle.lol



I assume you have a powersmoke ??

My 7.3 was doing the same thing. turned out to be the commen fuel leak (o rings) & the HPOP lines were leaking a little.

Both easy fixes.

The 7.3's almost never leak @ the rear seal from what I have been told.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Well if you're replacing the trans in the Dodge I have 2 suggestions... A little bit of money now will help it last a lot longer, and it'll feel like a whole new truck. Start off by calling Dave Goerend of Goerend Transmission. He knows everything about these transmissions, and is IMO the best builder out there. 

Here's what I would suggest: Goerend Valve Body, for either street or tow performance (whichever you do most), $400
And the next thing would be a Single Disk Billet Torque Converter, about $600, I'd go with 89% efficiency for both street/towing performance.

The P-Strokes are known for rear main seal failures, just one of those things you have to plan for sooner or later. Its about a 10hr job to do it yourself if you're doing it for the first time... The second time its about 6-7, depending on how much you drink...


----------



## stihl sawing

Mike mandry said:


> I assume you have a powersmoke ??
> 
> My 7.3 was doing the same thing. turned out to be the commen fuel leak (o rings) & the HPOP lines were leaking a little.
> 
> Both easy fixes.
> 
> The 7.3's almost never leak @ the rear seal from what I have been told.


No it's a 460 gas engine, I wish it was a 7.3


----------



## stihl sawing

motoroilmccall said:


> Well if you're replacing the trans in the Dodge I have 2 suggestions... A little bit of money now will help it last a lot longer, and it'll feel like a whole new truck. Start off by calling Dave Goerend of Goerend Transmission. He knows everything about these transmissions, and is IMO the best builder out there.
> 
> Here's what I would suggest: Goerend Valve Body, for either street or tow performance (whichever you do most), $400
> And the next thing would be a Single Disk Billet Torque Converter, about $600, I'd go with 89% efficiency for both street/towing performance.
> 
> The P-Strokes are known for rear main seal failures, just one of those things you have to plan for sooner or later. Its about a 10hr job to do it yourself if you're doing it for the first time... The second time its about 6-7, depending on how much you drink...


I took it to a guy who knows about the dodge tranny and the upgrades. i told him not to put the stock junk back in it. He said that he never rebuilds one with stock parts, i don't know what he uses but he has never ripped me off. He knows about the upgrades and other things to make it better. I don't have a clue what to do to it, all i know is i need the truck. i have used him for several jobs and all has worked out good. After he finishes the dodge he will probably get the ford.


----------



## Freyboy23

I love my power stroke f 350 crew cab with 311.000 miles. it runs like new. now I know it has a lota miles and will need tlc but I just put a chip in it and redid the trans. man that thing get up and goes down the road!!!!


----------



## stihl sawing

Well i got the dodge back today and it shifts so much smoother than it ever has. Don't know all that he did but it is better than it was when it was new. Something about using five star or something instead of four. Think he was talking about planetary gears. I don't know a thing about a tranny so you guys probably know what he's talkin about. I'm happy with it so far, just hope it holds up.


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> Well i got the dodge back today and it shifts so much smoother than it ever has. Don't know all that he did but it is better than it was when it was new. Something about using five star or something instead of four. Think he was talking about planetary gears. I don't know a thing about a tranny so you guys probably know what he's talkin about. I'm happy with it so far, just hope it holds up.



Glad to hear it it should hold up he has a warranty?


----------



## stihl sawing

ropensaddle said:


> Glad to hear it it should hold up he has a warranty?


Yeah not much of one though. One year or 12.000 miles. But i guess that's good for a rebuilt tranny.


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> Yeah not much of one though. One year or 12.000 miles. But i guess that's good for a rebuilt tranny.



It is enough that if something were not done correct it likely would show up should be ok how hard do ya work it?


----------



## stihl sawing

ropensaddle said:


> It is enough that if something were not done correct it likely would show up should be ok how hard do ya work it?


Not too bad when i'm cuttin it gets loaded down, It's always got something in the bed but usually nothing really heavy like your equipment. Mostly loaded with lawn care stuff.


----------



## stihl sawing

This ought to get it stirred up again.


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> This ought to get it stirred up again.



Wow so is that the 6.7 rods gonna be tough to break those lol


----------



## stihl sawing

ropensaddle said:


> Wow so is that the 6.7 rods gonna be tough to break those lol


That's an old photo, The ford rod is off a 6.0. That pic caused a lot of fueding on deisel sites for a while.lol


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> That's an old photo, The ford rod is off a 6.0. That pic caused a lot of fueding on deisel sites for a while.lol



I meant the cummins 6.7 like I own the new one!


----------



## Marco

Still like my 7.3 idi in the F250


----------



## wampum

Had both first a 1991 dodge that would not quit,but rode like a tank. Then a 2001 Duamax that gave me all kinds of problems,but rode like a Caddy. In 2004 went back to Dodge,well over 100,000 miles gets 26 mpg on trips,20-22 around home and 18 towing a heavy trailer around home and a little under 20 on trips. So far 1 universal joint and a water pump. Under $100.00 to replace the pump and put a new belt on it. Rides close to the Chevy,yet out pulls it. After this bail out I will be looking seriously at Ford in the future,I do not agree with the bail out.


----------



## giXXer

I am quite partial to my 7.3 powerstroke super duty. The straight axle leaf sprung front holds the 1100lb boss poly v-plow very well, the truck tows like a dream with plenty of power and stability, and I have been able to put far more in the bed and tow far more than I should expect from a pick-up. It now has a little over 300,000 miles and has been pretty much reduced to wood hauler, top soil hauler (using a dump trailer), tractor, dozer, 5th wheel camper, gooseneck equip. trailer hauler, and in the winter MAJOR SNOW PUSHER! (I've plowed a couple of very large commercial accounts with the truck for 8 years. If we get 3" of new snow I plow for 8-10 hours straight, with big snow falls, sometimes the truck doesn't shut down for 24-36 hours.) Engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft u-joints, etc. have still NOT BEEN TOUCHED! Only regular fluid/filter/maint. I have had to replace brakes (lots), ball joints, wheel bearings, water pump (180,000 miles), serpentine belt (after 250,000 miles), and it now needs glow plugs, an oil leak, and coolant leak fixed (300,000 miles).

I know that the new Fords have had their problems and the Cummins has been very proven as a work horse, but I almost owe it to Ford to buy my next truck from them. Granted, the paint is starting to fall off the truck, but the interior still looks like new and isn't falling apart, all on a 10 year old truck.


----------



## Bearcreek

I figured your truck was a late 90's before I even got to the part that said it was ten years old. Those were good years for Ford. It seems like all the manufacturers have had certain years when they produced great trucks. Usually its the last few years of production of a certain model, after they have worked any bugs out. I love the Cummins, I think its the best diesel you can get in a pickup. I think it would be a great thing if Ford could get a contract with Cummins to use there engines in the pickups. After all the bull#### that GM and Chrysler have been swimming in with Uncle Sam I don't think I'll ever buy a new vehicle from either of them.


----------



## wampum

Bearcreek said:


> I figured your truck was a late 90's before I even got to the part that said it was ten years old. Those were good years for Ford. It seems like all the manufacturers have had certain years when they produced great trucks. Usually its the last few years of production of a certain model, after they have worked any bugs out. I love the Cummins, I think its the best diesel you can get in a pickup. I think it would be a great thing if Ford could get a contract with Cummins to use there engines in the pickups. After all the bull#### that GM and Chrysler have been swimming in with Uncle Sam I don't think I'll ever buy a new vehicle from either of them.



I agree I like the Cummings,would definitely buy a Ford if it had it. After all the gubberment crap would not even consider a Chrysler or GM product,unless it was pre gubberment crap.


----------



## mercer_me

I think Chevy makes the best deisel truck becouse they have a great motor and a great transmition. I like the Dodge trucks with the Cumins, but I don't like there transmitions.


----------



## motoroilmccall

mercer_me said:


> I think Chevy makes the best deisel truck becouse they have a great motor and a great transmition. I like the Dodge trucks with the Cumins, but I don't like there transmitions.



There's one guy who can't spell...

The Chevy has a poor chassis, decent engine, and a good transmission (if you only like automatics...) 

Meanwhile, the Cummins is the best Diesel offered in the light duty segment, thats why both Ford and GM use them in other applications. They have great transmissions in the AISIN, the new 68RFE, and to an extent the 48RE. Of course, they are only the automatics... Dodge is the only company to even offer a manual trans with the G56. If you break a G56, you're doing something way, way, way wrong, because stock they'll hold over 800HP.


----------



## stihl sawing




----------



## 046

hmmm a bit more info on G56 used in CR cummins 2004- or there abouts
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/some-authoritative-info-g56-transmission-t93225.html


----------



## 04ultra

Local tree service 98 Dodge 5 speed looses 5 gear 4 times in 150,000 miles ....His 97 only had the problem 2 time and he sold it ....I sure hope that problem was fixed.....I have read this might be a common problem on the older ones ......


Our local Dodge dealer has 30+ Cummins Dodge trucks used on his lot from 07 to 09 all ext cabs and mega cabs ....Found out sat nite that there all dealer buy backs and have branded titles....Lots of buy backs at that auctions... 




.


----------



## 046

hate to be a dodge dealer about right now...

yup it's true... 5th gear nut comes off on cummins trucks, losing 5th gear. that's how I got my 96 cummins with 67k miles. 5th gear came off and last owner needed truck right away to make a long trip. so he purchased a new dodge cummins. 

meanwhile the repair shop fixed 5th gear by tack welding nut. so hopefully I will not have that problem again. 



04ultra said:


> Local tree service 98 Dodge 5 speed looses 5 gear 4 times in 150,000 miles ....His 97 only had the problem 2 time and he sold it ....I sure hope that problem was fixed.....I have read this might be a common problem on the older ones ......
> 
> 
> Our local Dodge dealer has 30+ Cummins Dodge trucks used on his lot from 07 to 09 all ext cabs and mega cabs ....Found out sat nite that there all dealer buy backs and have branded titles....Lots of buy backs at that auctions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Bearcreek

Tack welding the nut works ok if you never want to rebuild the tranny, then its a #####. The upgraded fifth gear nut works fine and dosn't mess up the mainshaft.


----------



## 046

which version of upgraded nut are you referring to? loads of failures with upgraded nuts..
http://www.dieselbombers.com/cummins-corner/4623-nv-4500-5th-gear-issues.html

welding is not pretty but does hold together. http://www.dieselbombers.com/cummins-corner/8538-nv4500-welding-5th-gear-retaining-nut.html





Bearcreek said:


> Tack welding the nut works ok if you never want to rebuild the tranny, then its a #####. The upgraded fifth gear nut works fine and dosn't mess up the mainshaft.


----------



## stihl sawing

this might be nice for working on the larger trucks, I know mine is hard to reach things under the hood.

http://www.relstapleton.com/topsideproducts.html


----------



## mimilkman1

stihl sawing said:


> this might be nice for working on the larger trucks, I know mine is hard to reach things under the hood.
> 
> http://www.relstapleton.com/topsideproducts.html



Beats standin on a 5 gallon pail. 

Kyle


----------



## ropensaddle

mimilkman1 said:


> Beats standin on a 5 gallon pail.
> 
> Kyle



Yup or in the loader bucket lol


----------



## Bearcreek

clint999 said:


> Well, you can get them in Ferd F550s and above... Of course you can get a Cummins in them too
> 
> A Cat powerplant would be sweet for the right application! But they don't wind up real fast making them less ideal for the majority of road drivers. Not saying it would stop me from buying a Cat powered truck though



You can't get a cat or a cummins in a F550. They only come with the powerstroke or V10 gas.


----------



## lumberjach

*not Chevy*

As much as I Love chevrolet, I have to admit, they never really made a good diesel engine. remember those old ceramic heads? How about that 350 diesel. Jokes. Im stihl laughin


----------



## Peacock

lumberjach said:


> As much as I Love chevrolet, I have to admit, they never really made a good diesel engine. remember those old ceramic heads? How about that 350 diesel. Jokes. Im stihl laughin



The LMM D-Max may be the most reliable of the current 3.

The 6.4 Ford doens't seem much better than the 6.0.

The 6.7l isn't a bad engine at all, just got some teething problems with the EGR system and how it effects the VGT.


----------



## motoroilmccall

The injector failures the LMM have been seeing are hardly called reliable. The 6.7L is having some programming issues and EGR/VGT issues, again, due to programming. 

The 6.4L is a waste of time and money. I don't think the new "Scorpion" diesel will be much better. 

At this point you're better off to wait a year or two til the bugs are worked out to buy any diesel truck.


----------



## ropensaddle

Peacock said:


> The LMM D-Max may be the most reliable of the current 3.
> 
> The 6.4 Ford doens't seem much better than the 6.0.
> 
> The 6.7l isn't a bad engine at all, just got some teething problems with the EGR system and how it effects the VGT.



I have the 6.7 cummins I hope it does not turn into a money pit.


----------



## Peacock

motoroilmccall said:


> The injector failures the LMM have been seeing are hardly called reliable. The 6.7L is having some programming issues and EGR/VGT issues, again, due to programming.
> 
> The 6.4L is a waste of time and money. I don't think the new "Scorpion" diesel will be much better.
> 
> At this point you're better off to wait a year or two til the bugs are worked out to buy any diesel truck.



I'm just going off the dealer group I work for. We own dealers for the 3 makes. The LMM D-Max trucks have been rock solid for us in this area. 

Maybe we are an anomoly. We've had a bunch of bad CR 5.9 injectors and even replaced a few motors. We've probably replaced a dozen or more turbo's on the 6.7l motors and an injector or 2. Had one with a bad PCM that clogged the DPF because it refused to do a regen.


----------



## cashishift

Peacock said:


> The LMM D-Max may be the most reliable of the current 3.
> 
> The 6.4 Ford doens't seem much better than the 6.0.
> 
> The 6.7l isn't a bad engine at all, just got some teething problems with the EGR system and how it effects the VGT.



What basis says the LMM is the most reliable?

Based on the research I've been doing.. LBZ - EGR = winner.


----------



## cashishift

Peacock said:


> I'm just going off the dealer group I work for. We own dealers for the 3 makes. The LMM D-Max trucks have been rock solid for us in this area.
> 
> Maybe we are an anomoly. We've had a bunch of bad CR 5.9 injectors and even replaced a few motors. We've probably replaced a dozen or more turbo's on the 6.7l motors and an injector or 2. Had one with a bad PCM that clogged the DPF because it refused to do a regen.



the DPF is such a joke.. 

there isn't a single truck out there that is getting good mileage with one on it. 

just a stab in the foot of diesel, diesel power has such potential in cars and trucks.. just gotta get past that stigma!


----------



## Peacock

cashishift said:


> What basis says the LMM is the most reliable?
> 
> Based on the research I've been doing.. LBZ - EGR = winner.



I'm only comparing the current engines. Not the old pre-EGR models.


----------



## cashishift

Peacock said:


> I'm only comparing the current engines. Not the old pre-EGR models.



The LBZ has EGR, so does the LLY. 

the only one as far as i know the LB7 didn't have it. 

The LMM has both the DPF and EGR.. 

All of these motors are basically the same, just with different stuff on them for emissions and different tune.. the LLY is a detuned LBZ.. the LMM is a LBZ with the DPF stuff on it.. 

basically the same all across the board.


----------



## djmercer1

motoroilmccall said:


> The injector failures the LMM have been seeing are hardly called reliable. The 6.7L is having some programming issues and EGR/VGT issues, again, due to programming.
> 
> The 6.4L is a waste of time and money. I don't think the new "Scorpion" diesel will be much better.
> 
> At this point you're better off to wait a year or two til the bugs are worked out to buy any diesel truck.



its not the lmm with injector troubles, it was the lb7, and it was backed by gm with a 200k milespecial service policy....

the only issue with the lmm/lbz(mechanically the same, lmm has more emission crap) is cracked pistons when powered up through tuning...


----------



## djmercer1

cashishift said:


> The LBZ has EGR, so does the LLY.
> 
> the only one as far as i know the LB7 didn't have it.
> 
> The LMM has both the DPF and EGR..
> 
> All of these motors are basically the same, just with different stuff on them for emissions and different tune.. the LLY is a detuned LBZ.. the LMM is a LBZ with the DPF stuff on it..
> 
> basically the same all across the board.



not totally true...

lb7 and pre2006 lly are mechanically similar. exception are injectors are outside the valve cover, and the lly had the variable vane turbo, lb7 was fixed vane with wastegate....

2006 lly and lbz are identical except for tuning. lmm and lbz are nearly the same ecept for emissions and tuning....

2006 lly forward has the allison 6speed tranny with tap-shift. there are some rummors of the 06 lly with the 5speed ally..... the only lb7 with pcv/egr was the cali model. all lly/lbz had pcv and egr. lmm has egr/pcv and dpf...


----------



## cashishift

djmercer1 said:


> its not the lmm with injector troubles, it was the lb7, and it was backed by gm with a 200k milespecial service policy....
> 
> the only issue with the lmm/lbz(mechanically the same, lmm has more emission crap) is cracked pistons when powered up through tuning...



and with the LMM.. dpf regen fuel mileage is just terrible.. 8mpg 

All these extra emissions put on diesels, sure isn't doing anything to help their cause. 

so much power and effiency available.. yet no one even bothers to look.


----------



## cashishift

djmercer1 said:


> not totally true...
> 
> lb7 and pre2006 lly are mechanically similar. exception are injectors are outside the valve cover, and the lly had the variable vane turbo, lb7 was fixed vane with wastegate....
> 
> 2006 lly and lbz are identical except for tuning. lmm and lbz are nearly the same ecept for emissions and tuning....
> 
> 2006 lly forward has the allison 6speed tranny with tap-shift. there are some rummors of the 06 lly with the 5speed ally..... the only lb7 with pcv/egr was the cali model. all lly/lbz had pcv and egr. lmm has egr/pcv and dpf...



close enough for government work


----------



## djmercer1

cashishift said:


> and with the LMM.. dpf regen fuel mileage is just terrible.. 8mpg
> 
> All these extra emissions put on diesels, sure isn't doing anything to help their cause.
> 
> so much power and effiency available.. yet no one even bothers to look.



your right about the mileage..... dads lmm gets about 18l/100km unloaded, my lly does about 12.5l/100km driving the same routes, when hauling it does go down somewhat, the old lb7 i had was even better than my lly. the regen on the lmm reportedly consumes upwards for 3 gal of diesel every 500miles.....

we need to get rid of the emissions crap, if my milagegoes down by 20% due to emissions, i then doing more harm than i would have if i had blew a little soot. my memory tells me that the lb7 wasnt blowing piles of black smoke anyway....


----------



## motoroilmccall

djmercer1 said:


> its not the lmm with injector troubles, it was the lb7, and it was backed by gm with a 200k milespecial service policy....
> 
> the only issue with the lmm/lbz(mechanically the same, lmm has more emission crap) is cracked pistons when powered up through tuning...



IDK where you are, but the LMM most certainly IS having injector failures out here. Between nozzles cracking and o-rings leaking the things are smoke machines that barely move once in limp mode. 

I'm not bashing Chevy, they are without doubt the second best diesel out there, but Cummins has the track record, the engineers, and the money that GM doesn't, and they do make the best diesel out there in more than just the light truck segment. 

The argument has been brought up religiously, the Cummins is medium duty, the Duramax is still a light duty. Ignore it all you want, but to diesel truck drivers, size matters...


----------



## djmercer1

motoroilmccall said:


> IDK where you are, but the LMM most certainly IS having injector failures out here. Between nozzles cracking and o-rings leaking the things are smoke machines that barely move once in limp mode.
> 
> I'm not bashing Chevy, they are without doubt the second best diesel out there, but Cummins has the track record, the engineers, and the money that GM doesn't, and they do make the best diesel out there in more than just the light truck segment.
> 
> The argument has been brought up religiously, the Cummins is medium duty, the Duramax is still a light duty. Ignore it all you want, but to diesel truck drivers, size matters...



well, according to the gm service system, theres been less than 400 injector jobs on lmm/lbx in canada and the us combined, covering 2.5 years. there were some injector like issues related to wiring for both lly and lmm, but not the actual injectors.

ill admit the cummins 5.9 is a very good power plant, the jurys still out on the 6.7 though, its unfortunate that the dodge truck wasnt a better package worthy of either... although the new asin tranny seems to be very good...

the lmm/lbz has only been in production for 2.5 yrs, the lb7 for 4 yrs and lly for 2 yrs, it took much longer to get the bugs worked out of the cummins than either production run, the cummins in had a full 5yrs as a production motor before being put in the dodge as a competitor to the 6.2l detroit and 7.3l international....


----------



## 046

call it what you want... but cummins powered trucks of any flavor are highly desired by folks that haul a load. 

take a peek at Ford and Chevy diesel truck forums. even on their own turf, cummins gets mentioned with grudging respect. 

don't get me wrong... cummins has their own problems like everyone else. look at all the VP44 (fuel pump) failures on 24valve cummins. which are solved with FASS pumps and fuel pressure gauges. stories of transmission failures abound... mismatch for cummins' output. 

overall cummins has less issues than everyone else. older 12valve basically had no weakness once the killer dowel pin was fixed. it's a fact that much older first gen 12v (pre 94) get better mileage... hauls huge loads... all without complaint ... equal to much newer trucks. 

small wonder why cummins powered trucks tend to have the best resale values too.


----------



## Bearcreek

:agree2: You'll never see a powerstroke or duramax swapped into a Dodge. Cummins swaps into Fords and Chevy's are common.


----------



## motoroilmccall

djmercer1 said:


> well, according to the gm service system, theres been less than 400 injector jobs on lmm/lbx in canada and the us combined, covering 2.5 years. there were some injector like issues related to wiring for both lly and lmm, but not the actual injectors.
> 
> ill admit the cummins 5.9 is a very good power plant, the jurys still out on the 6.7 though, its unfortunate that the dodge truck wasnt a better package worthy of either... although the new asin tranny seems to be very good...
> 
> the lmm/lbz has only been in production for 2.5 yrs, the lb7 for 4 yrs and lly for 2 yrs, it took much longer to get the bugs worked out of the cummins than either production run, the cummins in had a full 5yrs as a production motor before being put in the dodge as a competitor to the 6.2l detroit and 7.3l international....



The first gen VE Cummins trucks debuted in 89 due to lack of engines. The 6BT had been out for a number of years before it made it into the Dodge. Mostly it was an Ag engine used in tractors and skidders and other various heavy equipment. Obviously those applications abuse the powertrains much worse than any OTR application. It wasn't a matter of getting the bugs worked out at all, in fact it was nearly perfect when it debuted in Case equipment. The only real problem was a crappy oil filter system that would have been fine on OTR applications, but couldn't keep up with the dirty conditions off-road.

If the 5.9L motor was a great powerplant, how can the 6.7L not be? Its practically the same motor with a slightly larger bore, and a DPF and EGR system. And I don't know how you can even compare the 6BT to a 6.2L Detroit motor that was a joke then, and makes GM guys puke a little when you bring it up now. 

The 7.3 was always a reliable motor, but it was never a powerhouse until 97 when it was turbo'd, intercooled, and direct injected. 

The Dodge is a great truck, it has been since the First Gen. I'll openly admit that until 04 the Dodge Auto's were basically junk if they weren't properly built. But unlike the General, and Ford, Dodge offered, and still does offer, a MANUAL transmission, which is what every diesel should be equipped with for hauling anything. The other big advantage that Dodge, and even Ford have over GM is a real truck front end. IFS is a joke, and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so. 

I'll say this, and I've said it before. Ford has hands down the best chassis. From a super strong frame, to a radius arm front solid axle, to proven reliable Dana axles. I personally don't like the exterior styling, but it works for some people. 

Dodge has the best engine, no question... Its why Ford and GM guys pull their original diesel engine to swap it for a Cummins. The Aisin automatic (which FYI is available only on C+C models) is also the best built trans out there, its a medium duty unit, unlike the light duty Allison, 68RFE, or Torqshift, and it weighs a ton. The 68RFE has also shown to be an incredibly reliable transmission so far, even with aftermarket upgrades. I personally like the Dodge styling and new 2010 interior the most as well, although the Ford interior is very impressive. The AAM axles are excellent, but I worked for Dana for years, so I've seen the limits of both (I was a test technician first at the TRP plant in Ottawa Lake, MI, then the ASG plant in Maumee, OH).

The Chevy has a nice motor, and an excellent transmission. I'd take the Allison over anything but the Aisin, and if I was gonna really hot-rod one of these trucks, the Allison would be my choice because of its aftermarket support (although at the extremes the clutch-clutch shifting of the Allison is a huge problem, and most guys swap to the 47RH of the 12V Cummins trucks, even the Aisin can't handle it). The rest of the Chevy doesn't impress me... The frame hangs low, the front end isn't suitable for hard work (like logging, farming, or hard off-road use), the interior looks like it was pulled out of an Impala, and the body is way too big for those tiny wheels and tires.

Most of this is my opinion, and you aren't going to change that. However my opinion is based on what I know, and how *I* use trucks. Each of these trucks have strong suits, and shine in their own application. Then again, the Ford shine's on the outside, but the motor is one of those things where I'll say to the end, you can polish a turd all you want... Its still a turd.


----------



## djmercer1

motoroilmccall said:


> The first gen VE Cummins trucks debuted in 89 due to lack of engines. The 6BT had been out for a number of years before it made it into the Dodge. Mostly it was an Ag engine used in tractors and skidders and other various heavy equipment. Obviously those applications abuse the powertrains much worse than any OTR application. It wasn't a matter of getting the bugs worked out at all, in fact it was nearly perfect when it debuted in Case equipment. The only real problem was a crappy oil filter system that would have been fine on OTR applications, but couldn't keep up with the dirty conditions off-road.
> 
> If the 5.9L motor was a great powerplant, how can the 6.7L not be? Its practically the same motor with a slightly larger bore, and a DPF and EGR system. And I don't know how you can even compare the 6BT to a 6.2L Detroit motor that was a joke then, and makes GM guys puke a little when you bring it up now.
> 
> The 7.3 was always a reliable motor, but it was never a powerhouse until 97 when it was turbo'd, intercooled, and direct injected.
> 
> The Dodge is a great truck, it has been since the First Gen. I'll openly admit that until 04 the Dodge Auto's were basically junk if they weren't properly built. But unlike the General, and Ford, Dodge offered, and still does offer, a MANUAL transmission, which is what every diesel should be equipped with for hauling anything. The other big advantage that Dodge, and even Ford have over GM is a real truck front end. IFS is a joke, and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so.
> 
> I'll say this, and I've said it before. Ford has hands down the best chassis. From a super strong frame, to a radius arm front solid axle, to proven reliable Dana axles. I personally don't like the exterior styling, but it works for some people.
> 
> Dodge has the best engine, no question... Its why Ford and GM guys pull their original diesel engine to swap it for a Cummins. The Aisin automatic (which FYI is available only on C+C models) is also the best built trans out there, its a medium duty unit, unlike the light duty Allison, 68RFE, or Torqshift, and it weighs a ton. The 68RFE has also shown to be an incredibly reliable transmission so far, even with aftermarket upgrades. I personally like the Dodge styling and new 2010 interior the most as well, although the Ford interior is very impressive. The AAM axles are excellent, but I worked for Dana for years, so I've seen the limits of both (I was a test technician first at the TRP plant in Ottawa Lake, MI, then the ASG plant in Maumee, OH).
> 
> The Chevy has a nice motor, and an excellent transmission. I'd take the Allison over anything but the Aisin, and if I was gonna really hot-rod one of these trucks, the Allison would be my choice because of its aftermarket support (although at the extremes the clutch-clutch shifting of the Allison is a huge problem, and most guys swap to the 47RH of the 12V Cummins trucks, even the Aisin can't handle it). The rest of the Chevy doesn't impress me... The frame hangs low, the front end isn't suitable for hard work (like logging, farming, or hard off-road use), the interior looks like it was pulled out of an Impala, and the body is way too big for those tiny wheels and tires.
> 
> Most of this is my opinion, and you aren't going to change that. However my opinion is based on what I know, and how I use trucks. Each of these trucks have strong suits, and shine in their own application. Then again, the Ford shine's on the outside, but the motor is one of those things where I'll say to the end, you can polish a turd all you want... Its still a turd.



the 5.9 and 6.7 are only related, bore and stroke, turbos, and over half the motor parts are redesigned. the new cummins has had sufficient enough problems with emissions that soot filled egr and burnt turbos has prompted dodge to buy back a large number of trucks. gm has implemented the emissions regulations with the fewest problem of the 3 manufacturers, not withstanding the emisions stuff is crap anyway.

i made a mistake about the 6.2l, it was at the end of its life cycle when the 5.9l was introduced. the 6.5l when turbo charged was a better comparison to the 5.9l, still not as good though.

if the aisin is only available on cab-chassis trucks, maybe we should compare it to the allison 2000/3000/4000 trannys? your right in that the allison is a light duty unit, it isnt meant for use in more than a 1 ton truck...

you other opinions are just that , i have mine also. ive had ford, dodges and chevy over the years and to me the best overall package was the chevy. i dont really find the ifs to be a limitation , but do think that these trucks should have the option of either ifs or solid axle. the lack of the stick is potentially a problem, but then do i really want a stick and solid axle in my $65k luxury truck when i have the allison and a ifs that is very capable for 90% of my uses?


----------



## 046

had a very nice 97 cummins 12v 4x4 with 120k miles when I sold it.... reason it had an auto and I wanted a stick.... yanked 30k+ lbs with that rig.... 

took me almost 2 years of searching, but I finally found it. it's my current ride: 96 cummins 12v 5sp 4x4 with 67k miles. best in town mileage is 22.5, but usually average 20 mpg... 

for me having a stick in town means control of what rpm your engine operates at. instead of dealing with auto tranny slip. added 4-5 mpg over my auto cummins for in town driving. 

naturally yanking heavy loads is always easier with a stick. still don't understand why dodge for 2nd gen 12v, put auto transmissions in almost all the 3/4 ton cummins trucks. 



djmercer1 said:


> the lack of the stick is potentially a problem, but then do i really want a stick and solid axle in my $65k luxury truck when i have the allison and a ifs that is very capable for 90% of my uses?


----------



## motoroilmccall

djmercer1 said:


> the 5.9 and 6.7 are only related, bore and stroke, turbos, and over half the motor parts are redesigned. the new cummins has had sufficient enough problems with emissions that soot filled egr and burnt turbos has prompted dodge to buy back a large number of trucks. gm has implemented the emissions regulations with the fewest problem of the 3 manufacturers, not withstanding the emisions stuff is crap anyway.
> 
> i made a mistake about the 6.2l, it was at the end of its life cycle when the 5.9l was introduced. the 6.5l when turbo charged was a better comparison to the 5.9l, still not as good though.
> 
> if the aisin is only available on cab-chassis trucks, maybe we should compare it to the allison 2000/3000/4000 trannys? your right in that the allison is a light duty unit, it isnt meant for use in more than a 1 ton truck...
> 
> you other opinions are just that , i have mine also. ive had ford, dodges and chevy over the years and to me the best overall package was the chevy. i dont really find the ifs to be a limitation , but do think that these trucks should have the option of either ifs or solid axle. the lack of the stick is potentially a problem, but then do i really want a stick and solid axle in my $65k luxury truck when i have the allison and a ifs that is very capable for 90% of my uses?



Compare the Aisin to the bigger Allison transmissions. The Aisin is used all the way to class 7 trucks, and it holds its own quite well.

The 6.5L wasn't much better than the 6.2L, I owned one... For a month (that's all I could stand of the thing).

As far as a $65 luxury truck goes... Why don't you just buy a Cadillac? I love laughing at guys who have trucks like yours. Its not a work truck, its a toy. Yeah, it probably pulls a toy hauler, or camper around, but that is NOT a work truck. If all you do is haul the highway with a camper or toy hauler, then you really aren't testing the truck like I am. I've used Ford's and Chevy's too. A 2000 F-250 that was a great truck as long as I ever used it, and a 02 Chevy 3500 that was always a headache. It would drag frame left and right, and bust tie rods and CV shafts like it was a K-Nex toy... But it sure did ride nice that whole time .


----------



## ropensaddle

motoroilmccall said:


> Compare the Aisin to the bigger Allison transmissions. The Aisin is used all the way to class 7 trucks, and it holds its own quite well.
> 
> The 6.5L wasn't much better than the 6.2L, I owned one... For a month (that's all I could stand of the thing).
> 
> As far as a $65 luxury truck goes... Why don't you just buy a Cadillac? I love laughing at guys who have trucks like yours. Its not a work truck, its a toy. Yeah, it probably pulls a toy hauler, or camper around, but that is NOT a work truck. If all you do is haul the highway with a camper or toy hauler, then you really aren't testing the truck like I am. I've used Ford's and Chevy's too. A 2000 F-250 that was a great truck as long as I ever used it, and a 02 Chevy 3500 that was always a headache. It would drag frame left and right, and bust tie rods and CV shafts like it was a K-Nex toy... But it sure did ride nice that whole time .


My ram has that assassin tranny so good to know it feels shifty but never had a problem with it yet.


----------



## djmercer1

motoroilmccall said:


> Compare the Aisin to the bigger Allison transmissions. The Aisin is used all the way to class 7 trucks, and it holds its own quite well.
> 
> The 6.5L wasn't much better than the 6.2L, I owned one... For a month (that's all I could stand of the thing).
> 
> As far as a $65 luxury truck goes... Why don't you just buy a Cadillac? I love laughing at guys who have trucks like yours. Its not a work truck, its a toy. Yeah, it probably pulls a toy hauler, or camper around, but that is NOT a work truck. If all you do is haul the highway with a camper or toy hauler, then you really aren't testing the truck like I am. I've used Ford's and Chevy's too. A 2000 F-250 that was a great truck as long as I ever used it, and a 02 Chevy 3500 that was always a headache. It would drag frame left and right, and bust tie rods and CV shafts like it was a K-Nex toy... But it sure did ride nice that whole time .



but the aisin from what ive read isnt available in the 'regular' 3/4 and 1 ton trucks we are talking about. the 68rfe is a revised 48fre that was ok, but not great, the 68rfe is still new and the jury wont be back for a couple of years. no doubt the reputation of the aisin is good, comparabe to the allison, another husky-stihl debate infact. if we want to talk about the stirling/4500/5500 we should then compare to the kodiak, not the silverado, and the ally 3000/dmax combo...

the reason gm doesnt offer a stick, is why dodge put auto in almost all the finished trucks---theres no market for the stick. while i prefer a stick, in most situations the new intelligent autos are making that option extinct....

unfortunately(or fortunately) there is no option for towing 15klbs other than a diesel truck.... but my truck does infact work by hauling work gear(excavators and construction supplies), and visiting remote construction sites, but at the end of the day it is still civilized enough to take the wife and kids for a drive in.....


----------



## motoroilmccall

djmercer1 said:


> but the aisin from what ive read isnt available in the 'regular' 3/4 and 1 ton trucks we are talking about. the 68rfe is a revised 48fre that was ok, but not great, the 68rfe is still new and the jury wont be back for a couple of years. no doubt the reputation of the aisin is good, comparabe to the allison, another husky-stihl debate infact. if we want to talk about the stirling/4500/5500 we should then compare to the kodiak, not the silverado, and the ally 3000/dmax combo...
> 
> the reason gm doesnt offer a stick, is why dodge put auto in almost all the finished trucks---theres no market for the stick. while i prefer a stick, in most situations the new intelligent autos are making that option extinct....
> 
> unfortunately(or fortunately) there is no option for towing 15klbs other than a diesel truck.... but my truck does infact work by hauling work gear(excavators and construction supplies), and visiting remote construction sites, but at the end of the day it is still civilized enough to take the wife and kids for a drive in.....



Alright, compare the 4500/5500 to the Kodiak... You and I both know the medium duty truck isn't the same class as the Class 4+5 Dodge. But, while the chassis's are way different, the Powertrains aren't. The Cummins/Aisin is considerably stronger than the Allison/D-Max that's in the Kodiak. Compare it to the F650/750... What engine is offered in that? The Cummins. Its offered with an Allison as well, smallest being the 2200. Most opt for the Eaton Fuller Trans. 

The Aisin has payed its dues in the Mitsubishi Fuso trucks for years, and ask any real freight operator what trucks they'd have if they could afford them... The Kodiak or F-Series wouldn't be high on the list compared to Fuso, Sterling, FL, KW, or Pete... Its a different class of truck. 

The 68RE is more than capable, its already got roughly 3 years on it, and I haven't seen any complaints, let alone failures. 

All of the trucks I've driven are fine for highway cruising. Some might beat you up on back country roads slightly more than others, but they are the ones that generally last longer in the end. My trucks always get Bilstein shocks and eventually progressive springs anyways, so I'd be willing to bet my 99 2500 rides better than your Heavy Chevy. But of course, a little money can always buy better parts than stock...


----------



## ropensaddle

djmercer1 said:


> but the aisin from what ive read isnt available in the 'regular' 3/4 and 1 ton trucks we are talking about. the 68rfe is a revised 48fre that was ok, but not great, the 68rfe is still new and the jury wont be back for a couple of years. no doubt the reputation of the aisin is good, comparabe to the allison, another husky-stihl debate infact. if we want to talk about the stirling/4500/5500 we should then compare to the kodiak, not the silverado, and the ally 3000/dmax combo...
> 
> the reason gm doesnt offer a stick, is why dodge put auto in almost all the finished trucks---theres no market for the stick. while i prefer a stick, in most situations the new intelligent autos are making that option extinct....
> 
> unfortunately(or fortunately) there is no option for towing 15klbs other than a diesel truck.... but my truck does infact work by hauling work gear(excavators and construction supplies), and visiting remote construction sites, but at the end of the day it is still civilized enough to take the wife and kids for a drive in.....



I am supposed to have the aisin in my 2007 3500 or at least my owners manual says so?


----------



## djmercer1

ropensaddle said:


> I am supposed to have the aisin in my 2007 3500 or at least my owners manual says so?



my understanding is that it is only available in the 3500 for cab-chassis and in all 4500/5500 and it isnt available in the 2500. from what ive read the difference in application with the 68rfe and aisin is the option for pto with the aisin...


----------



## yodayoda

ropensaddle said:


> I am supposed to have the aisin in my 2007 3500 or at least my owners manual says so?



Rope, unless you have a Cab/Chassis truck you've got the 68RFE. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a truck with the 68RFE, although it's new to the diesel, it's the same basic design that first came out in the 99 Grandcherokee with the 4.7 Engine.45FRE trans. And the 45RFE has been the trans in the trucks with the Hemi since 03, including the 3/4 and 1 tons.

It has a much more heavy duty converter, clutches etc. And in the diesel they make use of all the planataries, and made it into a 6 speed.

The 45RFE behind the 4.7 and Hemi has been excellent in my opinion, and haven't had any problems yet or anticipate allot of problems with the 68RFE behind the 6.7.

Unfortunately Dodge has such a bad reputation for tranys, it will take years for people to trust them


----------



## ropensaddle

yodayoda said:


> Rope, unless you have a Cab/Chassis truck you've got the 68RFE. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a truck with the 68RFE, although it's new to the diesel, it's the same basic design that first came out in the 99 Grandcherokee with the 4.7 Engine.45FRE trans. And the 45RFE has been the trans in the trucks with the Hemi since 03, including the 3/4 and 1 tons.
> 
> It has a much more heavy duty converter, clutches etc. And in the diesel they make use of all the planataries, and made it into a 6 speed.
> 
> The 45RFE behind the 4.7 and Hemi has been excellent in my opinion, and haven't had any problems yet or anticipate allot of problems with the 68RFE behind the 6.7.
> 
> Unfortunately Dodge has such a bad reputation for tranys, it will take years for people to trust them



I have several recalls it has to go in for soon I just hope the epa has not ruined the 6.7 I know the 6.0 I had was crap.


----------



## stihl sawing

ropensaddle said:


> I have several recalls it has to go in for soon I just hope the epa has not ruined the 6.7 I know the 6.0 I had was crap.


The EPA has ruined all the diesels, Big or small. The old ones would run forever, Like the old cummins. I really don't expect my 24 valve to last as long as the old 12 valves.


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> The EPA has ruined all the diesels, Big or small. The old ones would run forever, Like the old cummins. I really don't expect my 24 valve to last as long as the old 12 valves.



I has to ba a bushama conspiracy They send all the jobs to foreigner's then build our vehicles where they don't run to bankrupt our azz. Then what few jobs that are left they devalue by catering to illegal labor.


----------



## djmercer1

stihl sawing said:


> The EPA has ruined all the diesels, Big or small. The old ones would run forever, Like the old cummins. I really don't expect my 24 valve to last as long as the old 12 valves.



i think the 24v does have a good rep, but the 12v is considered better.... as was mentioned it will be a while before people will truct a doge built tranny...

the epa has already ruined the diesel, and they should be trying to get us to convert to diesel. its easier, and less enviromentally harmful, to make the diesel, better ecomony, and the days of diesels blowing blake smoke are long gone.

my old lb7(2001) was easily capable of 23mpg on the highway and 18mpg in the city, my lly is less by about 1.5mpg. however with the dpf and other emissions crap, dads lmm is getting 5-7mpg less..... so you burn more fuel, have a more complicated vehicle that doesnt last as long due to the emission crap(blown turbos, clogged egr etc) and the epz thinks this is good???


----------



## t613

ropensaddle said:


> Wow so is that the 6.7 rods gonna be tough to break those lol



Yeah, I wonder which are stronger, 6 of the Cummins rods or 8 of the other two? As near as I can figure, they NEED to be 33% larger/stronger to even equal 8 v-8 rods.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## yodayoda

t613 said:


> Yeah, I wonder which are stronger, 6 of the Cummins rods or 8 of the other two? As near as I can figure, they NEED to be 33% larger/stronger to even equal 8 v-8 rods.:biggrinbounce2:



You don't really get an appreciation for how heavy duty, and overbuilt, the cummins is until you see one apart, the crankshaft and rods are massive compared to the Ford, (don't know about the chevy, as I work at a Ford/Dodge dealer) But actually the Fords haven't had allot of bottom end problems either.

When I first went to school on the cummins, back in the early nineties, we were all standing around looking at a 5.9 cummins torn apart, trying to figure out why the rod caps were cut at an angle and not just straight across like a normal engine, guys were theorizing which side of a rod cap had more load on it etc. The instructor came over and simply explained and demonstrated how the large end of the rod would not fit down the bore of the engine, if it were machined straight across. The 5.9 had a 4" bore, so that tells you how big the crank journals are


----------



## motoroilmccall

t613 said:


> Yeah, I wonder which are stronger, 6 of the Cummins rods or 8 of the other two? As near as I can figure, they NEED to be 33% larger/stronger to even equal 8 v-8 rods.:biggrinbounce2:



If you're going to look at it that way, the how much bigger do the 5 MAIN BEARINGS need to be on the Chevy/Ford, compared to the 7 on the Cummins?

Its a null point, the Cummins Mains are about 30% bigger than either of the other two anyways... And they still have more of them.


----------



## bml

I've had 4 Fords with the 7.3, and have been extremely happy with all of them. Three of them have been as company trucks, and have taken huge amounts of abuse. I reckon my only complaint is that it doesn't have the pep that the newer engines have.


----------



## motoroilmccall

bml said:


> I've had 4 Fords with the 7.3, and have been extremely happy with all of them. Three of them have been as company trucks, and have taken huge amounts of abuse. I reckon my only complaint is that it doesn't have the pep that the newer engines have.



I think the 7.3L 97-03 Fords were some of the best diesel trucks ever. But, you can't beat the power and reliability of that old 12V P-Pumped Cummins in the 94-98 Dodges.


----------



## yodayoda

motoroilmccall said:


> I think the 7.3L 97-03 Fords were some of the best diesel trucks ever. But, you can't beat the power and reliability of that old 12V P-Pumped Cummins in the 94-98 Dodges.



I agree, I have a cutomer with a 98 12 valve, the last time he was in he had over 370k miles on it.He bought it new and I do all his maint work, haven't touched the motor, injectors, injection pump, lift pump nothing.


----------



## madmax

motoroilmccall said:


> I think the 7.3L 97-03 Fords were some of the best diesel trucks ever. But, you can't beat the power and reliability of that old 12V P-Pumped Cummins in the 94-98 Dodges.


I had one of the first Powerstrokes(95 model), and my Dad had a 96 model Cummins, to make a long story short, we rebuilt the two of them, (threw the fuel plate away from the Cummins during the rebuild), I did every trick I could learn at the the time to the powerstroke, and that damm dodge kicked my ass when we were done, but, with the two engines tore down, side by side, the Cummins makes the powerstroke look sick, might as well compare apples to oranges, I personally beleive there is no way to possibly make one of the International engines make the HP of the Cummins.


----------



## mdavlee

The IH engines that came in school buses and other equipment can make plenty of power. The 360 Ih is an I-6 just like Cummins. They actually cast some blocks and heads for Cummins in the 90s. A Dt466 Ih will fit where a Powerstroke sit. Tractor pullers have made 2000 hp plus on those engines. If Ford had used those instead of the V-8s it would have been a lot closer in the power department.


----------



## madmax

mdavlee said:


> The IH engines that came in school buses and other equipment can make plenty of power. The 360 Ih is an I-6 just like Cummins. They actually cast some blocks and heads for Cummins in the 90s. A Dt466 Ih will fit where a Powerstroke sit. Tractor pullers have made 2000 hp plus on those engines. If Ford had used those instead of the V-8s it would have been a lot closer in the power department.


Good post, brings up another question, why did Ford opt for the v8?


----------



## motoroilmccall

madmax said:


> Good post, brings up another question, why did Ford opt for the v8?



One reason... Marketing. International wanted to make the 6.4L and the 6.0L a V-6. Both times Ford said they'd need a V-8 for Marketing. 

If Ford had put the DT466 in their F-250/350, I probably wouldn't be driving a Dodge. Of course, they'd have to have used the P-Pump to really get my attention.


----------



## yodayoda

Yup, Ford could have "owned" the Diesel market, huge missed opportunity they'll never get again.


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah I would like a p-pumped dt466 in a super duty truck. I guess Ford thought the I-6 wouldn't sell.:bang:


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## yodayoda

In my opinion it goes back to what I said earlier in a different thread, the domestic car companies are not run by "car" people anymore, instead they are run by a bunch of greedy, over educated idiots, that couldn't fix a snugy if they had to. 

To add insult to injury, to cut warranty expense, guess what thy do? shift the expense to their dealers by reimbursing their dealers about 1/4 of the time it takes to fix these trucks, the dealers are losing good diesel techs like crazy.

Our Ford rep will not even come back in the shop anymore when he does come around, prolly worried He will get a blanket party


----------



## madmax

motoroilmccall said:


> One reason... Marketing. International wanted to make the 6.4L and the 6.0L a V-6. Both times Ford said they'd need a V-8 for Marketing.
> 
> If Ford had put the DT466 in their F-250/350, I probably wouldn't be driving a Dodge. Of course, they'd have to have used the P-Pump to really get my attention.


Thanks for the explanation, Ive been wondering about that for awhile, I always thought it was a smart assed Ford engineer out to prove something. And I have to agree with ya about the DT466, I would like to see one built to its full potential, I bet it would scream. (I have a old IH Scout thats been parked for yrs', I'm starting to formulate a plan here.)


----------



## mdavlee

The 360 is a lot smaller and lighter than the 466. It is real close to the 5.9 cummins in size. They are pretty good on fuel in school buses so they should do real well in something small.


----------



## Marco

A mechanical injected dt360 on a 5 speed Spicer that was geared to run 3,000 rpm at 65mph would get 12 mpg in a bus that would have been 65 passenger without the wheel chair lift. This was on a transfer route with limited stops. Not bad for something that cuts the wind like a sledgehammer and weighs like 6-7 ton empty.


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah a friend of mine drove one of them for 13 years until the county retired it. It got a third better mileage than the 466 or 444. I tried to buy the bus, but the county shipped it to the other end of the state to sell it. I was going to swap it into a 2000 F-250 I had.


----------



## motoroilmccall

Marco said:


> A mechanical injected dt360 on a 5 speed Spicer that was geared to run 3,000 rpm at 65mph would get 12 mpg in a bus that would have been 65 passenger without the wheel chair lift. This was on a transfer route with limited stops. Not bad for something that cuts the wind like a sledgehammer and weighs like 6-7 ton empty.



3 Grand at 65mph? The things only run to 3300. If it was geared to run at 2000 at 65 it might do decent in a truck.


----------



## Marco

a pickup


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## motoroilmccall

Marco said:


> a pickup



That's what I meant... My Cummins turns about 1900 at 65mph, but thats with 35's. I get real close to 20MPG if I keep it at 65, a lot lower if I go up to 75.


----------



## madmax

Just outta curiosity, what kinda HP is the DT360 capable of?


----------



## motoroilmccall

Modded? Well with a P-pump as much as you can flow to it... I've seen 466's well over 1000HP, so as long as the 360 has a similar bottom end tolerance it should be good to 8-9 hundred HP. Stock they aren't going to make 300hp, but they don't need to.


----------



## madmax

motoroilmccall said:


> Modded? Well with a P-pump as much as you can flow to it... I've seen 466's well over 1000HP, so as long as the 360 has a similar bottom end tolerance it should be good to 8-9 hundred HP. Stock they aren't going to make 300hp, but they don't need to.


 Thanks, Ive been curious about that for awhile, Ive seen the 466s advertised at 900 and a thousand Horses, so that got me thinking about the 360's, which I have never even seen the inside of one, Curiosity got the best of me.


----------



## Johndirt82

Alot of guys will be quick to bag on the new 6.7 cummins but if you gut all the emissions crap off of them put a tuner , intake and 5" turbo back exhaust its a beast and has never givin' me a bit of lip. wish I could say the same about the wife. doh!


----------



## epicklein22

How hard was it to get rid of that emissions stuff? Seems like a lot of people are hesitant to do it and seems I read that if you remove some of it, your truck wouldn't start or something like that.


----------



## Johndirt82

Thats all B.S. I have a straight pipe with dummy sensors in it and a fooler box. Truck thinks the particulate filter is still there. I have no egr stuff either, whom ever thought that pumping hot soot filled air into your intake was a good idea needs to go fall off a cliff. The truck runs beyond great. better than stock by bar. Low egt's, 20MPG on the hwy and rolls the coal pretty good when you turn the edge juice to level 6. If you are interested Pm me and i'll show you where to get it all.


----------



## Ten_Bucks

Johndirt82 said:


> Thats all B.S. I have a straight pipe with dummy sensors in it and a fooler box. Truck thinks the particulate filter is still there. I have no egr stuff either, whom ever thought that pumping hot soot filled air into your intake was a good idea needs to go fall off a cliff. The truck runs beyond great. better than stock by bar. Low egt's, 20MPG on the hwy and rolls the coal pretty good when you turn the edge juice to level 6. If you are interested Pm me and i'll show you where to get it all.



So you're running one of the early emissions foolers instead of a Smarty or XRT? Also, have you checked out this site at all:

http://cumminsforum.com/

Scott


----------



## epicklein22

Johndirt82 said:


> Thats all B.S. I have a straight pipe with dummy sensors in it and a fooler box. Truck thinks the particulate filter is still there. I have no egr stuff either, whom ever thought that pumping hot soot filled air into your intake was a good idea needs to go fall off a cliff. The truck runs beyond great. better than stock by bar. Low egt's, 20MPG on the hwy and rolls the coal pretty good when you turn the edge juice to level 6. If you are interested Pm me and i'll show you where to get it all.



Sweet! I will have to let people know it is BS about the emissions crap. That is the biggest knock on the 6.7. I not in the market for one now, but will be down the road eventually. I got a buddy who is a mopar fanatic, he will be happy to hear this news.


----------



## Johndirt82

Yeah and I have put about 40k miles on it since and never had any issues. I get egr low flow codes all the time, but the edge clears them not that they matter anyways. Have not tried the smarty or anything else I like the set up I have now. If I win the lottery , its gettin duel CP3's and big injectors along with about 10 G's of engine and tranny work to support it. One day haha.


----------



## Ten_Bucks

Johndirt82 said:


> Yeah and I have put about 40k miles on it since and never had any issues. I get egr low flow codes all the time, but the edge clears them not that they matter anyways. Have not tried the smarty or anything else I like the set up I have now. If I win the lottery , its gettin duel CP3's and big injectors along with about 10 G's of engine and tranny work to support it. One day haha.



Yeah, I hear you on that. I'd suggest getting a Smarty R14ME for it though. Its the best 685 bucks you can spend on your truck. If you want a hook up on a place to get one, PM me.

Scott


----------



## yodayoda

I was wondering how long it would take the aftermarket to come up with a kit to eliminate all the emmisions crap on the 6.7. I don't blame you guys at all for doing it. Just keep in mind you've voided your 100k warranty on $15,000 engine.


----------



## giXXer

epicklein22 said:


> How hard was it to get rid of that emissions stuff? Seems like a lot of people are hesitant to do it and seems I read that if you remove some of it, your truck wouldn't start or something like that.



I just replaced my Super Duty Powerstroke truck with a Dodge Cummins and after quite a bit of research the biggest drawback to the new Cummins (other than the fact that it comes with a Dodge wrapper) IS the DPF and EGR. Removing this equipment makes the truck run like it should, but voids the factory warranty. I don't want to have to put all of that crap back on the truck in case of a warranty claim. 

The information you received about trucks not starting is not entirely untrue. The edge juice programmers, like mentioned previously, have been relatively trouble free on the new Cummins. However, there are several programmers that are detected by the factory ECM which is then disabled. With the new "black box" technology the ECM even logs how many times it has been flashed and what types of changes were made. This information is then uploaded to Dodge automatically via the internet every time the dealer does any diagnostics. Information such as top speed, highest RPM, etc., including ECM alterations are recorded. IF, and it's a big if, Dodge detects any programming alterations you lose your warranty. I thought it was all a load of B.S. until I saw the bulletin right from Dodge. There are also some guys on the cummins forum that have lost their warranties and had to pay $600+ for a new ECM. There are, of course, ways around this and a good relationship or connection at your dealership always helps. I am still undecided on what I am going to do. It's kind of a bummer that my new 6.7 Cummins would absolutely get it's doors sucked off by a 260,000 mile powerstroke, but my Ford ate a lot of drivetrain parts at my expense. I do quite a bit of snow plowing which is pretty hard on trucks so I am looking forward to having no repair bills for the next couple of years. Dilemmas, dilemmas!


----------



## yodayoda

quote "This information is then uploaded to Dodge automatically via the internet every time the dealer does any diagnostics. Information such as top speed, highest RPM, etc., including ECM alterations are recorded".


This information is in the cummins ECM, but I'm not aware of anyway this information would be automatically uploaded to Dodge, What bulletin are you referring to?


----------



## Johndirt82

Its absolutely worth taking it all off , yes I voided my warranty but I have extended the engine life and have no DPF or EGR crap to worry about so I doubt I will ever need the warranty. That and the fuel mileage increased quite nicely , EGTs are in the 600s on the hwy with 3-5lbs of boost , and it will go high 13's in the qtr mile. I have 64k miles on it trouble free and im pretty hard on truck.


----------



## yodayoda

Johndirt82 said:


> Its absolutely worth taking it all off , yes I voided my warranty but I have extended the engine life and have no DPF or EGR crap to worry about so I doubt I will ever need the warranty. That and the fuel mileage increased quite nicely , EGTs are in the 600s on the hwy with 3-5lbs of boost , and it will go high 13's in the qtr mile. I have 64k miles on it trouble free and im pretty hard on truck.



Do you remove the egr and cap it off? or does the edge just disable egr flow?

Egr on a diesel is just a bad idea in my head. I've had to remove and clean egr passages on the 6.7 and on the 2.8 Liberty diesel. That egr soot, seems to me, has to be abrasive, and increase engine wear.

It's not Dodge or Cummins fault, write your congressman.


----------



## Johndirt82

Yeah its capped off with a pretty cool billet cap that I got on ebay of all places that says cummins racing on it, looks nice. the pipe has a round aluminum disc in the end of it with the clamp back on it blocks off the egr cooler. I think the cooler is going to go completely soon. I know there is a block off kit for it. Hot soot in your intake , is no bueno , it kills oil and engine life. I get 2 codes on the edge for the egr flow but whatever it doesn't effect how the truck runs and the edge can clear them. heres a couple pics. No one can see my exhaust underneath, and my truck has no emblems, everyone thinks its hemi 1500, until i blow smoke and leavem in a cloud, southern california don't know country boys. haha.


----------



## Ten_Bucks

Johndirt82 said:


> Yeah its capped off with a pretty cool billet cap that I got on ebay of all places that says cummins racing on it, looks nice. the pipe has a round aluminum disc in the end of it with the clamp back on it blocks off the egr cooler. I think the cooler is going to go completely soon. I know there is a block off kit for it. Hot soot in your intake , is no bueno , it kills oil and engine life. I get 2 codes on the edge for the egr flow but whatever it doesn't effect how the truck runs and the edge can clear them. heres a couple pics. No one can see my exhaust underneath, and my truck has no emblems, everyone thinks its hemi 1500, until i blow smoke and leavem in a cloud, southern california don't know country boys. haha.



I like how you have the exhaust dumping down under the truck before the rear axle. Not too many people do that and its different. I'm all for being different.

Scott


----------



## Johndirt82

I made that 45degree tip piece out of the 18" mega cab extention that came with the kit. Its a silverline 5.9 kit full 5" turbo back it fits great it just has the 5 sensor bungs welded into it with the dummy box. I have the rest of the exhaust but it hung really low behind the rear tires and rubbed the rear shock. Taking out that section dropped my egts a bit too. That and it sounds mean but can barely hear it on the hwy.


----------



## Ten_Bucks

Johndirt82 said:


> I made that 45degree tip piece out of the 18" mega cab extention that came with the kit. Its a silverline 5.9 kit full 5" turbo back it fits great it just has the 5 sensor bungs welded into it with the dummy box. I have the rest of the exhaust but it hung really low behind the rear tires and rubbed the rear shock. Taking out that section dropped my egts a bit too. That and it sounds mean but can barely hear it on the hwy.



Is the underside of your truck after the exhaust covered in soot?

Scott


----------



## Johndirt82

Nope not that I have noticed. I hit it with the steam hose at work once in a while to get the gunk off but no soot build up. It blows straight at the ground .


----------



## Bearcreek

It's rust protection.  just like the leaky rear seal on my truck.


----------



## Ten_Bucks

Johndirt82 said:


> Nope not that I have noticed. I hit it with the steam hose at work once in a while to get the gunk off but no soot build up. It blows straight at the ground .



Thats good. The common thing I hear when people are talking about having the exhaust exit like yours is soot being covered all over the bottom of the truck after the exhaust.

Scott


----------



## Johndirt82

Rust protection , I like that one. If it ever gets wet in southern california I might have to worry about rust. Everytime I go visit the family in Oregon I always see old rusted out toyota 4x4s and wonder what is holding them together.


----------



## Bearcreek

The rust here in northeast Ohio is horrible. It's humid most of the time, we get a ton of rain and snow and they salt the roads like there's no tomorrow. It's amazing to me the difference in corrosion on vehicles that are from the south and west. Our region is like truck hell. It's where trucks go to be eaten away and die.


----------



## giXXer

yodayoda said:


> quote "This information is then uploaded to Dodge automatically via the internet every time the dealer does any diagnostics. Information such as top speed, highest RPM, etc., including ECM alterations are recorded".
> 
> 
> This information is in the cummins ECM, but I'm not aware of anyway this information would be automatically uploaded to Dodge, What bulletin are you referring to?



It was a bulletin that someone put on cumminsforum.com in a pdf that referred to the loss of warranty, ecm issues, and how the dealer is to handle them. The bulletin did not address the upload to Dodge. That information came from the dealership and was also discussed in the same thread as the bulletin. From what I understand, and this information is third hand, the scan tools that are currently being used are connected to the internet via a wireless router so they can be updated with the latest and greatest software. When the downloads are being done Dodge also uploads information from your truck. The dealer says this is all for Dodge's benefit and for research purposes. It didn't seem too far fetched for me to believe, especially considering the technology being used on new vehicles.


----------



## yodayoda

giXXer said:


> It was a bulletin that someone put on cumminsforum.com in a pdf that referred to the loss of warranty, ecm issues, and how the dealer is to handle them. The bulletin did not address the upload to Dodge. That information came from the dealership and was also discussed in the same thread as the bulletin. From what I understand, and this information is third hand, the scan tools that are currently being used are connected to the internet via a wireless router so they can be updated with the latest and greatest software. When the downloads are being done Dodge also uploads information from your truck. The dealer says this is all for Dodge's benefit and for research purposes. It didn't seem too far fetched for me to believe, especially considering the technology being used on new vehicles.



Huh, interesting, the wireless and how the ecm is updated is all correct, and I suppose it is possible they could be uploading info at the same time. 

I've sent Dodge data, of recordings I've made before, to help diagnose intermittent or difficult to diagnose vehicles, but it always took some action on my part, never heard of them doing it automatically, I really doubt they would void anybodies warranty without the Dealer initiating the process, sounds like a bs scare tactic to me, but who knows, times are tough,anythings possible.

On the other hand, if you are modding your truck, it may be a good idea to have a good relationship with your dealer and try not doing something to piss em off, cause I know for a fact, 1 phone call from the dealer and your warranty is gone.


----------



## t613

giXXer said:


> It was a bulletin that someone put on cumminsforum.com in a pdf that referred to the loss of warranty, ecm issues, and how the dealer is to handle them. The bulletin did not address the upload to Dodge. That information came from the dealership and was also discussed in the same thread as the bulletin. From what I understand, and this information is third hand, the scan tools that are currently being used are connected to the internet via a wireless router so they can be updated with the latest and greatest software. When the downloads are being done Dodge also uploads information from your truck. The dealer says this is all for Dodge's benefit and for research purposes. It didn't seem too far fetched for me to believe, especially considering the technology being used on new vehicles.



+1. Was talking to our fleet mechanic (all us brands). He said the same thing. They have a wireless plug-in for the vehicles OBD-II connector that connects through the Internet. This allows the vehicles signals to be passed to corporate to assist in difficult troubleshooting scenarios as well as take a look into the ECM to check for mods. The dealer may not know, or even ask you, but Mama Dodge is watching!

He also sid Ford and Chevy have just come out with a similar system, so nobody is safe!


----------



## djmercer1

t613 said:


> +1. Was talking to our fleet mechanic (all us brands). He said the same thing. They have a wireless plug-in for the vehicles OBD-II connector that connects through the Internet. This allows the vehicles signals to be passed to corporate to assist in difficult troubleshooting scenarios as well as take a look into the ECM to check for mods. The dealer may not know, or even ask you, but Mama Dodge is watching!
> 
> He also sid Ford and Chevy have just come out with a similar system, so nobody is safe!



the necessary systems to track programmers on the gms has been place since the lly in 2004. most dealers didnt know how to access it as it required looking up torque tables and other information deep inside the ecm/tcm beyond the realm of repairing the vehicle. the lmm have a much more accessable way of tattling on people using programmers..... i dont know of a gm system that sends the info back to gm without action on the techie though....


----------



## giXXer

At first, the whole "black box Big Brother" thing seemed a little far-fetched to me too, but you never know. I am assuming that due to the number of cars and trucks on the road the shear volume of information being collected would be huge. Would they ever sift through it all just to gig a warranty from a paying customer? I highly doubt it. However, if you had a problem truck or tried initiating the lemon law, would Dodge access that information if possible? I would think so.

After all of the information and mis-information that I received prior to buying the truck (08 Dodge 6.7L) a friend at the local dealership explained it in terms that are most applicable to me. If the warranty is important to you, don't mess with the emissions or the computer and sell the truck prior to the warranty expiring and deal with the truck's dpf issues and the fact it is slowly killing itself with EGR and higher EGT's (not to mention, absolutely horrible fuel mileage). If you want to keep the truck for a long period of time, the warranty isn't as important as the truck running the way it should, and you want to unlock the power and true potential of the engine, get the edge juice with attitude, mp-8, dpf delete with aftermarket turbo back exhaust, egr block-off kit, cold air intake, and a set of new rear tires (to be installed after "test & tune"). Knowing what I know now, I probably should have listened to everyone's advice and taken the money I spent on the new truck and put it into my 99 super duty and built a fire breathing 7.3 or done a Cummins into Ford swap. The super duty didn't have any warranty left, but it also didn't have a monthly payment!


----------



## jrr344

cherylfoster said:


> Many companies make diesel Truck. But I think the Dodge is the best company makes diesel Truck. Dodge Company, especially given the technology used in new vehicles. This engine is very quiet and makes a ton of energy and is connected to Allison, who is by far the best auto tranny as an alternative to Big 3 diesel.



Cummins makes the diesel, Dodge makes the junk around it.


----------



## audible fart

I guess 99.9% of all new diesel pickups are automatics with no standard trans available? From what I've seen that's the case. Automatic transmissions are boring enough, but one with a woman's name? I'll stick with the older trucks "allison" my love.


----------



## jrr344

audible fart said:


> I guess 99.9% of all new diesel pickups are automatics with no standard trans available? From what I've seen that's the case. Automatic transmissions are boring enough, but one with a woman's name? I'll stick with the older trucks "allison" my love.



Allison is a very good tranny, but I am like you I like a Manual transmission.


----------



## epicklein22

Anybody drive the new Duramax or Powerstroke? Both are pushing 400hp or close to it and damn near 800 lbs. of torque. Sounds very impressive and the I know people are starting to crack the codes on the powerstroke and will have a tuner/programmer available shortly.

My old 7.3 powerstroke is dinosaur compared to the newer stuff but still gets the job done. 298k and counting.


----------



## mdavlee

Dodge is the last one to hold on to the manual tranny. Ford quit in 11 with the new engine. They do have a new 6 spd auto. My 09 has the 5 spd auto with the 6.4. It runs strong but a couple guys I worked with have traded up to the 11 and they say they're night and day with the power difference. I'm not going to trade anytime soon so I don't need to tempt myself by driving one.


----------



## 046

just put in a ceramic button clutch in my 96 12valve cummins. 
made by Sachs who claimed it should hold 600 hp. 

took a bit getting used to driving a clutch with no slip. 
this means either taking off in 1st (granny) or taking off fast enough in second to spin the tires just a bit. something has to slip and it's not going to be the clutch.


----------



## madmax

046 said:


> just put in a ceramic button clutch in my 96 12valve cummins.
> made by Sachs who claimed it should hold 600 hp.
> 
> took a bit getting used to driving a clutch with no slip.
> this means either taking off in 1st (granny) or taking off fast enough in second to spin the tires just a bit. something has to slip and it's not going to be the clutch.



Youll get the feel for it, buttons are the only way to go,IMHO.


----------



## mdavlee

A single disc rated for that much horsepower is going to be rough engaging. I personally will only put double discs in my trucks. I recommend them to anyone towing anything. Backing up is a lot easier with the double disc than a big single.


----------



## t613

*Psd*



epicklein22 said:


> Anybody drive the new Duramax or Powerstroke? Both are pushing 400hp or close to it and damn near 800 lbs. of torque. Sounds very impressive and the I know people are starting to crack the codes on the powerstroke and will have a tuner/programmer available shortly.
> 
> My old 7.3 powerstroke is dinosaur compared to the newer stuff but still gets the job done. 298k and counting.


 
Enjoy that veteran! That is arguably the best PSD International ever made for Ford. Many people swear by them, and you don't have to worry about that emissions crap!

Love my 6.4L, but not real happy with this regen stuff. Hopefully they have it figured out with this new urea system. 

I hope my 6.4 proves as reliable as your 7.3!

Tim


----------



## mdavlee

I would like to have a 95-97 crew cab 350 with the 7.3 and a 5 speed or a 460 in it. I could swap a cummins into pretty easily.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

If JESUS owned a diesel, it would be the 7.3!!!........so I got one, 97' F350, crew cab, 4x4, green, 127,000mi. and so far got 20mi. to the gallon on freeway....like it.


----------



## t613

*Nice find!*



woodsman44 said:


> If JESUS owned a diesel, it would be the 7.3!!!........so I got one, 97' F350, crew cab, 4x4, green, 127,000mi. and so far got 20mi. to the gallon on freeway....like it.


 
Nice find with that '97! It looks great, but boy is it loooonnnnggg!!!!

Enjoy it!

Tim


----------



## mdavlee

That's what I'm looking for right there.


----------



## komatsuvarna

If I didnt have a 7.3 truck first, Id probably never buy a ford diesel again. I drive a 01 with about 110k on it that hasnt had a bolt turned yet.

On the other hand, Have a 04, 05, 07 in the work fleet with the 6.0.....and ill never have another 6.0 truck again.

I cant say much for the 6.4. Never even rode in one or know anybody that has one.

If the new 6.7 turns out, I may upgrade my 01 to a newer nicer truck. I hope ford hits a home run with the 6.7, other wise ill be going to the other side....with a uglier more dependable truck.lol


----------



## mdavlee

A couple people I worked with upgraded to the 6.7. One did cause someone hit his 10 6.4. He loves the extra power it has over the 6.4. He didn't mention if the mileage was any better or not.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

t613 said:


> Nice find with that '97! It looks great, but boy is it loooonnnnggg!!!!
> 
> Enjoy it!
> 
> Tim



Thanks, and it only takes 1 acre to make full turn...LOL...


----------



## 046

yup... ceramic button clutch takes a completely different driving style. 
starting to figure out how to drive in city traffic without too much jerkiness. 

have only towed my heavy trailer once so far and only loaded with 7k lbs. trailer weights about 3k lbs. taking off in 1st gear feels not much different with no trailer. 

putting 100% of the power to the ground without slip is an awesome feeling!!

12v cummins puts out max torque at about 1600 rpm... NO full power pulls in 5th gear under 1500 rpms. otherwise could toast 5th gear. 



madmax said:


> Youll get the feel for it, buttons are the only way to go,IMHO.


----------



## a_lopa

Hino,they go the distance. Mitsubishi long life even when doors and everything else falls apart.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Here's the 7.3 pulling up black oak to road...got 1 cord out of this little TWIG 

As you can tell, I was taking it easy and not hitting gas pedal to hard...front tires were on pavment 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-O507jzl1U&feature=player_popout


----------



## Great Smokies

Ironbark said:


> Toyota Hilux. opcorn:
> 
> Not avaible in the US, but it's gotta be the best truck ever made. A motoring show in the Uk tried to kill one, but couldn't. After sinking it overnight in the sea, they finally tied it down to the top of a 10 story building that was being blown-up. After the demolition, they dug it out and managed to get it runing and drive it.
> 
> Pretty impressive.


 
Oh man, I wish we had the 3 litre HiLux diesel here...30+mpg daily driver.

I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9 Cummins Laramie stick shift. I LOVE IT! I tow heavy loads and it doesnt flinch. I had a 2003 Chevy Silverado 2500 Duramax LT. That was a nice truck. Here's the rub, one versus the other.

Dodge is MUCH roomier, much better fit for me.

Dodge ride is much nicer.

Dodge has better mileage.

Chevy leather seats were worn through by 42000 miles. 83000 on the Dodge, they look like new.

Both have very 'workmanlike' bench back seats (I have the 4 door cabs on both, but not the Mega or full door ones) but the dodge has better leg room.

Chevy has a few more gadgets inside for the top trim level. Onstar is nice. Satellite radio was nice. Dodge has MP3 CD playback, which is nice.

Dodge looks better, IMO.

I'd never get the Dodge in Auto, had to be stick. Prefer the Cummins engine though. Silverado did dump twice.

So...overall I go Dodge, but I do not dislike the Chevy at all. I only hear complaints about any diesel Ford after the 7.3!


----------



## 046

for some reason diesel truck mfg think we Americans are stupid. 

doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that a LOT of folks driving diesels trucks don't need to yank 20k+ lbs (not me, pull 30k+ lbs) 

my 96 12v cummins 4x4 weights 8,000lbs and still gets 20-22 mpg. 
in town during winter goes down to 18 mpg, it never reaches operating temps. 

there is NO substitute for light weight ... the best fuel mileage vehicles are the light weight ones ... period! then factor in aerodynamics and engine type. 

pushing around a truck through the air is like pushing a sheet of plywood stood up. yes some gains can be made like semi-truck aero features. but you can only do so much. 

power plant is where MOST of the gains can be realized. look at what the Europeans are driving.... their fuel costs have been $5+ gal for a long time. They have no choice but to find the most economical method to power their vehicles. 

Europeans are driving LITTLE DIESEL vehicles, this includes pickup trucks. 
The only little diesel vehicle available in the USA is Volkswagon TDI ... which gets 50 mpg ... this is better than any electric/hybrid, etc. without the complexity of hybrids. Sure hate to pay the repair bills when they finally are due and ALL vehicles break eventually. 

4BT little cummins transplants into 1/2 ton trucks are getting 30+ mpg. My brother just drove down from Canada (1,100miles) in a HUGE (158in wheel base) Dodge Sprinter Van with 5cyl diesel (2.9L) and got 26 mpg. 

Finally ... American mfg are going to offer a diesel motor in a 1/2 ton pickup again. shouldn't be too hard to achieve 30+ mpg ... wooo... 

In all fairness GM did offer a diesel in a 1/2 ton 20+ years ago... in part due to GM's reputation for diesel motor failures, didn't sell very well... so was canned.


----------



## RVALUE

I have a 4 cyl in a bread van, a fellow tried to buy it a couple days ago for his f150. The 150 is RUNNING on gas. He wants to swap it out. It might do better than 30. 

:monkey:


----------



## Frank Boyer

Diesel in Norway was around $11 a gallon two summers ago. Diesel was around $5 a gallon in CA then.


----------



## madmax

RVALUE said:


> I have a 4 cyl in a bread van, a fellow tried to buy it a couple days ago for his f150. The 150 is RUNNING on gas. He wants to swap it out. It might do better than 30.
> 
> :monkey:


 
If I was gonna bet, it would be, he hits the 30+ mpg mark, if its the 4bt Cummins.


----------



## 04ultra

Local guy put a 4bt in a 1500 chevy 2wd excab with 700r4 and 3.42's with air to air said he get 31mpg and has no problem so far.........It looks kinda cool sittin in there with all the plumbing from the intercooler ...He says its about 135hp with the turbo and he paid 3500.00 from a shop in IL. .......total installed is under 5k and he has 10k miles on it so far......


----------



## madmax

Home

Just thought you guys might be interested,

You should see this guys work in person!


----------



## Great Smokies

On the small diesel topic- 

GM HAS a small diesel now. They've had it for YEARS but never marketed it. It would be for Tahoes, 1/2 tons, etc. Google it, it exists, there are photos of it out test driving. Why dont they release it? Same as everything else- the oil companies have them all in their pockets. Why do Europeans have gas cars getting 40+mpg, some small diesels getting over 60 and we dont? Because we are brainwashed in to thinking we need V6 and V8 vehicles and that cars with less than 200hp wont move. And GM is making those cars in Europe!!! pi$$es me off...


----------



## t613

*Yep*

Ford's new Fiesta diesel (only available in Europe) gets 70+MPG.

They claim that it wouldn't sell in America because it has the old "diesel stigma" with Americans; It's loud, smelly and shakes a lot. I'm wondering if the engine would pass our EPA's emissions the way they are set.

Anyway, I know I'd have one if they were available here!

Tim


----------



## Rudedog

t613 said:


> Ford's new Fiesta diesel (only available in Europe) gets 70+MPG.
> 
> They claim that it wouldn't sell in America because it has the old "diesel stigma" with Americans; It's loud, smelly and shakes a lot. I'm wondering if the engine would pass our EPA's emissions the way they are set.
> 
> Anyway, I know I'd have one if they were available here!
> 
> Tim


 
You can thank the State of California for the fact that it will never happen in your lifetime.


----------



## Cerran

Ironbark said:


> Toyota Hilux. opcorn:
> 
> Not avaible in the US, but it's gotta be the best truck ever made. A motoring show in the Uk tried to kill one, but couldn't. After sinking it overnight in the sea, they finally tied it down to the top of a 10 story building that was being blown-up. After the demolition, they dug it out and managed to get it runing and drive it.
> 
> Pretty impressive.



Hilux isn't a full size pickup though.


----------



## Cerran

Great Smokies said:


> On the small diesel topic-
> 
> GM HAS a small diesel now. They've had it for YEARS but never marketed it. It would be for Tahoes, 1/2 tons, etc. Google it, it exists, there are photos of it out test driving. Why dont they release it? Same as everything else- the oil companies have them all in their pockets. Why do Europeans have gas cars getting 40+mpg, some small diesels getting over 60 and we dont? Because we are brainwashed in to thinking we need V6 and V8 vehicles and that cars with less than 200hp wont move. And GM is making those cars in Europe!!! pi$$es me off...


 
It has nothing to do with Oil companies and everything to do with NOx regulations for diesels in the US.


----------



## redprospector

In my opinion the EPA has us all screwed up.
Let's see, we'll take an engine and put a bunch of crap on it to make it put out 1/3 less polutants. As a result of this it will get 1/2 the mpg.
Ok, let's do the 2+2=4 thing.
1/3 less polutants per gallon burned..............twice the gallons to go the same amount of miles..............Hmmmm, if 2+2=4 then that would cause us to be putting 1/3 more polutants in the air in the same amount of miles. 

Andy


----------



## t613

*Right on!*



redprospector said:


> In my opinion the EPA has us all screwed up.
> Let's see, we'll take an engine and put a bunch of crap on it to make it put out 1/3 less polutants. As a result of this it will get 1/2 the mpg.
> Ok, let's do the 2+2=4 thing.
> 1/3 less polutants per gallon burned..............twice the gallons to go the same amount of miles..............Hmmmm, if 2+2=4 then that would cause us to be putting 1/3 more polutants in the air in the same amount of miles.
> 
> Andy


 
Yep, and they LIKE it!!


----------



## t613

*Uh-huh*



Rudedog said:


> You can thank the State of California for the fact that it will never happen in your lifetime.


 
Mr. Rude,

I am fully prepared that I will never be able to go down to the local Blue Oval dealer and buy a brandy new diesel Fiesta...SO, I settled on getting its 350 HP V-8 big brother in my 8000 pound pickup!!! Thanks again EPA!

Playin' by the rules.

Tim


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

What more can I say??...LOL...7.3 or bust!


----------



## epicklein22

woodsman44 said:


> What more can I say??...LOL...7.3 or bust!


 
You need to try an 2003 7.3. That 7.3 has the most power. Substantially more than our old body style 7.3's. 

I want to upgrade to a 99 or newer 7.3 soon.


----------



## promac850

The EPA is a group of cluster####ing asshats. They were good in the very beginning, but quickly rose to lust power. I hate them. I ####ing hate ethanol subsidies too.  Bunch of cluster####ing bull####.


----------



## madmax

promac610 said:


> The EPA is a group of cluster####ing asshats. They were good in the very beginning, but quickly rose to lust power. I hate them. I ####ing hate ethanol subsidies too.  Bunch of cluster####ing bull####.


 
:agree2:
They were the beginning of the end of everything that made the US what it is.


----------



## 046

12v Cummins pulling a good size backhoe/front end loader (25k+lbs with trailer) backhoe is a Unihoe 117 with 140hp Detroil Diesel four cylinder 2 cycle


----------



## t613

046 said:


> 12v Cummins pulling a good size backhoe/front end loader (25k+lbs with trailer) backhoe is a Unihoe 117 with 140hp Detroil Diesel four cylinder 2 cycle


 
That machine looks like quite the worker. Pretty stout trailer too.

Thanks for sharing.

Tim


----------



## banshee67

promac610 said:


> The EPA is a group of cluster####ing asshats. They were good in the very beginning, but quickly rose to lust power. I hate them. I ####ing hate ethanol subsidies too.  Bunch of cluster####ing bull####.


 
dont hold back, tell us how you really feel !


----------



## banshee67

audible fart said:


> I guess 99.9% of all new diesel pickups are automatics with no standard trans available?


 
more like 66.6% :msp_razz:

ford, dodge, chevy are the big 3, dodge is available with a 6 speed


----------



## t613

banshee67 said:


> more like 66.6% :msp_razz:
> 
> ford, dodge, chevy are the big 3, dodge is available with a 6 speed


 
We'll see if they still offer a 6-speed next year with the release of the 800ft/lb. Cummins...


----------



## Oldtimer

Nuzzy said:


> Hmmmmm... I could've sworn the F550 and above had the engine options. Maybe they just had to be special ordered...


 
The F550 has never had any engine options except Diesel (7.3 IH, 6.0 IH, 6.4 IH and 6.7 Ford), and the gasser V-10. 
I have a 2000 F550 with the 7.3 (444 cid) diesel. Rock solid engine. I just put a new transmission in it, 110K miles of pure work was enough for the OEM.

To the original poster:

Buy from the dealer with the very best after sale service and or the best service dept. Make is secondary to that, as all 3 are fine.

IMO, you should buy either a Sterling (Dodge) "Bullet" 5500






Or..

The Ford F550..






I say this because a 3/4 ton and dump trailer is silly for hauling wood...expensive and not very practical for most delivery situations IMO.

A "1-ton dump" will be over-weight (GVWR) with one full cord of green wood on...

But either of the 550 series trucks will haul 2 cords legally while still serving fine for residential plowing as long as you get a reg cab short wheelbase (up to 11'-6" dump body).
You'd need to have the 19500 pound GVW package (in the ford anyway) to haul 2 cords, and you'll have to stack it in to get 2 honest cords on, but it WILL haul it with zero issue...and legally.

GM makes you jump up to the "big truck" style to haul 19500 pounds GVWR.

Good luck.


----------



## Oldtimer

Also, I posted in the firewood forum about going over the scales @ 23,480 pounds gross when I hauled 2 cord of fresh cut oak...not legal by about 3500 pounds, but it hauled it without issue.


----------



## PLMCRZY

I love my cummins, its sharp looking and its relatively easy to make go fast. 

But my next diesel truck if i get one will be a Chevy/gmc duramax. Best of both worlds comfort, powerful, and classy.


----------



## Whiteman

PLMCRZY said:


> I love my cummins, its sharp looking and its relatively easy to make go fast.
> 
> But my next diesel truck if i get one will be a Chevy/gmc duramax. Best of both worlds comfort, powerful, and classy.


 
Ya I like the 5.9 Cummins, but not so much the truck. I have an '03 Gmc dmax and have intake, exhuast and hypertech programmer. Nothing to brag about but its a nice overall setup. I have enough power to get done what I need to pull or haul with ease. Thats why I like the GM package, the best overall package. It has a great motor, awesome tranny and the truck isn't too bad either. They have their weaknesses like all trucks, but I like them better than the others.


----------



## PLMCRZY

Replaced any injectors in that first gen dmax? The 3rd gen dodges are nice, they look sharp the 4th gen are even better. My year (01) 2nd gen was the best looking year i thought, but also the worse made. My dash is non existent, my paint is good but alot of others paint is just flaking off. I wax mine about every month though....when its running:hmm3grin2orange:

I took a dmax for a spin a while back, loved it. Like i said my next diesel will be a dmax if i choose that route. I wont mod it at all. Stock is the best for reliability...


----------



## mdavlee

I think if I was going to get a Dmax it would be a LB7 for the mileage and it's available with the 6 speed manual. I like the cummins the best for use in the hills where I live. It seems they could keep a load going the best up the hills and through the curves. I like the ford trucks the best in the 99-07 body style. I would like to find one with a 6 speed manual and blown engine to drop a 12 valves cummins in. Nothing like the mechanical engines. 

I would think dodge will keep the 6 speed manual available with a lower power rating like it has been since the 6.7 was introduced.


----------



## Whiteman

I havent replaced an injector on mine and dont need to at the moment.. knock on wood. I tell myself I dont want a 6 speed cause I know some guys that try pullin in 6th and it just runs the egts up. I am very happy with mine with the hypertech cause I can pull all day on the highest setting and not worry about egts and doesnt add enough power to trash the tranny. My only complaint is the weak tie rods. They have too much torque for them little things. I bent one while getting out of a snow drift my front end hit pavement while spinning the tires a little. Here is my truck. Got it for 13 in 2009 with 74,000 miles. It was clean inside but it is a work truck so a few scratches and stuff.


----------



## wooddog 066

I love my dodges i always been a gm guy at heart but these cummins motors are reliable and for a inline 6 outrun and pull almost all the v8's out there and some cummins there are reaching 500,000 miles theres alot to be said for that,.. i have had both a 99 model and now a 2005 which could of had better balljoints in it but i see alot of newer trucks coming with greaseable ones in them so.......


----------



## Whiteman

Ya the cummins is good, but the rest of the truck....The few guys I know with 200,000+ on their cummins have had to replace a few things mostly on the other drive train or truck. Here is a little food for thought.
TheDieselPage.com - 751,000 mile Duramax - March 2010


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Oldtimer said:


> The F550 has never had any engine options except Diesel (7.3 IH, 6.0 IH, 6.4 IH and 6.7 Ford), and the gasser V-10.
> I have a 2000 F550 with the 7.3 (444 cid) diesel. Rock solid engine. I just put a new transmission in it, 110K miles of pure work was enough for the OEM.
> 
> To the original poster:
> 
> Buy from the dealer with the very best after sale service and or the best service dept. Make is secondary to that, as all 3 are fine.
> 
> IMO, you should buy either a Sterling (Dodge) "Bullet" 5500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or..
> 
> The Ford F550..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I say this because a 3/4 ton and dump trailer is silly for hauling wood...expensive and not very practical for most delivery situations IMO.
> 
> A "1-ton dump" will be over-weight (GVWR) with one full cord of green wood on...
> 
> But either of the 550 series trucks will haul 2 cords legally while still serving fine for residential plowing as long as you get a reg cab short wheelbase (up to 11'-6" dump body).
> You'd need to have the 19500 pound GVW package (in the ford anyway) to haul 2 cords, and you'll have to stack it in to get 2 honest cords on, but it WILL haul it with zero issue...and legally.
> 
> GM makes you jump up to the "big truck" style to haul 19500 pounds GVWR.
> 
> Good luck.



F550 would be very nice to own with a chip box dump, but my 97' F350 is going to have to do for now....oh, and dont have to smog it here in CA, only 98' and up has to, so Im saving $$$money right there...lol


----------



## OH_Varmntr

Whiteman said:


> Ya the cummins is good, but the rest of the truck....The few guys I know with 200,000+ on their cummins have had to replace a few things mostly on the other drive train or truck. Here is a little food for thought.
> TheDieselPage.com - 751,000 mile Duramax - March 2010



Only 751k?

Several 2nd Gen Dodges with 1 Million+ miles...

Here's one...
Mopar1973Man's Dodge Cummins Articles - 1,000,000 Milestone

Howard Clayton has a '00 3500 with over 1.7 million miles. Never touched the internals. Changes oil every 10k miles. That was back in March of '11.

Brennan Magee has had 2 Cummins equipped Rams that passed 2 million and several others that passed 1 million.

That's food for thought.


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah there's been quite a few with over 500k on cummins powered rams. I had a 7.3 with 330k when I sold it. The most on any cummins I had was 210k. I go through trucks about like I do chainsaws so I don't keep them around long sometimes.


----------



## Whiteman

OH_Varmntr said:


> Only 751k?
> 
> Several 2nd Gen Dodges with 1 Million+ miles...
> 
> Here's one...
> Mopar1973Man's Dodge Cummins Articles - 1,000,000 Milestone
> 
> Howard Clayton has a '00 3500 with over 1.7 million miles. Never touched the internals. Changes oil every 10k miles. That was back in March of '11.
> 
> Brennan Magee has had 2 Cummins equipped Rams that passed 2 million and several others that passed 1 million.
> 
> That's food for thought.



Everybody knows Cummins will go the distance. Cummins has been around and proven itself. I was just showing that even though Dmax has only been in the Gm line up for a few years it has gone the the distance. Now when you talk about best complete package, thats where I will keep my 03 Dmax.


----------



## chad3

Whiteman said:


> Everybody knows Cummins will go the distance. Cummins has been around and proven itself. I was just showing that even though Dmax has only been in the Gm line up for a few years it has gone the the distance. Now when you talk about best complete package, thats where I will keep my 03 Dmax.



The IFS is the deal breaker for me. I'll stick with my RAM or travel over to the Ford side.


----------



## mdavlee

I like the duramax but the ifs is what I didn't like. It seems they don't hold up very good when off road a lot like farm roads and stuff like that. All my friends that had them had wheel bearing problems around 03-05. I wish the 3500 in them had a straight axle.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

chad3 said:


> The IFS is the deal breaker for me. I'll stick with my RAM or travel over to the Ford side.



+1 I hate IFS.


----------



## Sawdustmaker

there is so much bad info in this thread its painfully funny. I think my favorite was this 



> I think the Dodge is the best company makes diesel Truck. Dodge Company, especially given the technology used in new vehicles. This engine is very quiet and makes a ton of energy and is connected to Allison, who is by far the best auto tranny as an alternative to Big 3 diesel.


the anyone ever seen a dodge with an allison? Hell id rather have a BUILT 47re anyway. 

Oh and there are a lot of 7.3 worshipers here. Yeah its a good engine but its no 6bt. If ford had used the international DT360 instead of the V8 IDIs and later models they would have never looked back. That would have been so much better than the 7.3. 




Has anyone had trouble getting manual transmissions to hold up to towing heavy?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Cat 3208, 5.9 12v, 6.0 powerstroke, 7.3 powerstroke, 6.4 powerstroke, my choices.


----------



## arbor pro

I have a '99 F350 Superduty 4x4 with the 7.3 turbo powerstroke and a 6-spd tranny for sale in the classifieds. Awesome truck. 120k on replacement motor, 263k on chassis. scott - AP 605-228-9350

http://www.arboristsite.com/classifieds.php?do=viewitem&itemid=2323


----------



## K-TRON

My 1979 GMC 7000 has a 4-53T Detroit Diesel in it. Unlike the Cummins which is a medium duty diesel, and the Duramax/Ford diesels which are light duty diesels, the old 2 cycle green grenades are industrial engines which will run laps around Cummins/Ford/Duramax engines in terms of reliability, longevity, ease of maintenance and of course sound. With 50,000 mile oil changes, injectors which can burn any type of combustible fuel you pour into the tanks, and over 70 years of proven excellence, I will stand my ground when others naysayers disrespect the durability and legendary performance of the old GM/Detroit Diesels. I know my Jimmies will run 500,000-750,000 miles before any major rebuild, and when the time comes I can break out my bait and tackle box and get her back up and running again.

Chris


----------



## fubar2

K-TRON said:


> My 1979 GMC 7000 has a 4-53T Detroit Diesel in it. Unlike the Cummins which is a medium duty diesel, and the Duramax/Ford diesels which are light duty diesels, the old 2 cycle green grenades are industrial engines which will run laps around Cummins/Ford/Duramax engines in terms of reliability, longevity, ease of maintenance and of course sound. With 50,000 mile oil changes, injectors which can burn any type of combustible fuel you pour into the tanks, and over 70 years of proven excellence, I will stand my ground when others naysayers disrespect the durability and legendary performance of the old GM/Detroit Diesels. I know my Jimmies will run 500,000-750,000 miles before any major rebuild, and when the time comes I can break out my bait and tackle box and get her back up and running again.
> 
> Chris


I agree. The old Screaming Jimmies were a mechanical marvel. I had one in a semi and used to watch the stack in the convex mirror. When the last foot of it glowed red I knew we were at operating temperature.


----------



## eric_271

wooddog 066 said:


> I love my dodges i always been a gm guy at heart but these cummins motors are reliable and for a inline 6 outrun and pull almost all the v8's out there and some cummins there are reaching 500,000 miles theres alot to be said for that,.. i have had both a 99 model and now a 2005 which could of had better balljoints in it but i see alot of newer trucks coming with greaseable ones in them so.......



I just changed the ball joints out on my 05 Cummins Dodge. I did lots of reading and research and ended up replacing the stock ball joints with Dynatrac ball joints. They are a severe duty ball joint, large compared to the factory unit and made of stainless steel with grease zerks. Dynatrack says not to worry about greasing them. If they go bad they sell a rebuild kit but having been on the market for 2 or 3 years they haven't had to sell any kits yet. If and when they go bad you don't have to take them out to rebuild them. That will save on bent ball joint press's.

I don't think a greaseable ball joint a lone is a cure to short life ball joints in the Dodges. The bores in the housing that the ball joints seat in are on an angle that does not apply equal loads on the upper and lower ball joints. The only way to cure that problem was with an over built ball joint that can with stand nearly if not all the load. Dynatrac did just that but ya better be sitting down when you price them.


----------



## SS396driver

The ball joints on my 07 Dodge are fine but I did have to replace the front axle u joints . Truck has 61k on it


----------



## jrocket

K-TRON said:


> My 1979 GMC 7000 has a 4-53T Detroit Diesel in it. Unlike the Cummins which is a medium duty diesel, and the Duramax/Ford diesels which are light duty diesels, the old 2 cycle green grenades are industrial engines which will run laps around Cummins/Ford/Duramax engines in terms of reliability, longevity, ease of maintenance and of course sound. With 50,000 mile oil changes, injectors which can burn any type of combustible fuel you pour into the tanks, and over 70 years of proven excellence, I will stand my ground when others naysayers disrespect the durability and legendary performance of the old GM/Detroit Diesels. I know my Jimmies will run 500,000-750,000 miles before any major rebuild, and when the time comes I can break out my bait and tackle box and get her back up and running again.
> 
> Chris



OMG, go back far enough in history and we probably rode dinosaurs, dosnt mean they were any good. mho


----------



## wyk

It is really more of a jeep than a truck, but I am very fond of the Defenders:


----------



## terryknight

i'm a big fan of the old 7.3 Powerstrokes. right now we have 5 in the family.


----------



## Dixie Landscape

Bearcreek said:


> :agree2: You'll never see a powerstroke or duramax swapped into a Dodge. Cummins swaps into Fords and Chevy's are common.



IMHO,that's more about the crappy build quality of dodge trucks then how much better the cummins is over a d max or pwrstroke.


----------



## terryknight

Dixie Landscape said:


> IMHO,that's more about the crappy build quality of dodge trucks then how much better the cummins is over a d max or pwrstroke.



it's very true number 1 becuase cummins are "like a gold brick wrapped in ***" and number 2 the old mechanical 12vs are very easy to swap into anything


----------



## eric_271

K-TRON said:


> My 1979 GMC 7000 has a 4-53T Detroit Diesel in it. Unlike the Cummins which is a medium duty diesel, and the Duramax/Ford diesels which are light duty diesels, the old 2 cycle green grenades are industrial engines which will run laps around Cummins/Ford/Duramax engines in terms of reliability, longevity, ease of maintenance and of course sound. With 50,000 mile oil changes, injectors which can burn any type of combustible fuel you pour into the tanks, and over 70 years of proven excellence, I will stand my ground when others naysayers disrespect the durability and legendary performance of the old GM/Detroit Diesels. I know my Jimmies will run 500,000-750,000 miles before any major rebuild, and when the time comes I can break out my bait and tackle box and get her back up and running again.
> 
> Chris



Since you love them so well why dont you buy my 6-V71? I'll stick with my Cummins.


----------



## bert the turtle

I'm very happy with my 3500/Duramax, but I would like to know who decided to place the fuel filter where they did. It is as if they said "it isn't like anyone ever changes these things anyway..." At least put a door in the wheel well so I can get to it!

If I were designing a truck, I'd put a flip down front grill and have all the filters right there: connect them with hoses if I had to. The washer fluid filler and dipstick too. Jumper cable attachment points. Oil filler. The oil filter would be like in the old mercedes cars, down in a cup so when you unscrew it the extra oil drains back into the engine, not down your arm. Design the thing so that all the routine maintenance is really easy to do. I suppose there is more money in designing it so that you either have to have the factory tool or a trained boa constrictor to unscrew the fuel filter.


----------



## epicklein22

Back in the diesel truck game. Bought a 99 F250 with a 7.3 and 6 speed. It's been beat on it's whole life pretty much and needs some TLC, but it has good potential and is a tough truck. I bought it off the company I work for, so I know a lot of it's history. ~230k on it now. Needs injectors first and foremost. Clutch needs work too, it doesn't slip at all, but lots of play up top and you have to hold it absolutely to the floor, otherwise it's engaging. Then there's front end work, window racks, and lots of other things.


----------



## mtrees

Ford!!, but then again I run a Ford dealership. 6.7L built by Ford


----------



## Uncle John

epicklein22 said:


> Back in the diesel truck game. Bought a 99 F250 with a 7.3 and 6 speed. It's been beat on it's whole life pretty much and needs some TLC, but it has good potential and is a tough truck. I bought it off the company I work for, so I know a lot of it's history. ~230k on it now. Needs injectors first and foremost. Clutch needs work too, it doesn't slip at all, but lots of play up top and you have to hold it absolutely to the floor, otherwise it's engaging. Then there's front end work, window racks, and lots of other things.



Clutch might need adjustment and/or fluid and bled.


----------



## epicklein22

Uncle John said:


> Clutch might need adjustment and/or fluid and bled.



Ya, I need to do some research. I don't know if it's adjustable. I believe it works of the master cylinder along with the brakes. Have some rosewood rebuilt injectors. Hope to do that tomorrow.


----------



## newby79

mtrees said:


> Ford!!, but then again I run a Ford dealership. 6.7L built by Ford



6.7L built by Ford the 6.7 is probably the best diesel built by mexico but not in the USA:msp_biggrin:


----------



## mhrischuk

*RAM is taking over with payload. Ford and GM needs to regroup*

I wouldn't touch a Ford with a diesel in it 2003-up. Total JUNK.

Fourth gen RAM design came out in 2010 and they even made more upgrades. Now you can get the Aisin 8-speed auto in an HD. It's the Allison killer of auto transmissions.

Problem today between all brands now is price and emissions equipment. Loaded crew cab duallys are now 60 big ones list although out the door you can get them in the low 50's.

I realize that the highest percentage of rigs on this site is Ford. I knew why back during the 7.3 days but don't understand today why they keep buying them with the garbage diesels they put out now. Ford blind I guess. Nice trucks but stay away from the diesel.

Here is the RAM news release: Note the trailoring weights exceeding Ford and GM by 1000's of pounds.

That means that commercial businesses have a new kid on the block... ambulances.. tow trucks... utilities.. landscaping companies.. you name it. Need high GVW... GO RAM!



> • *Ram 3500 Heavy Duty’s maximum trailer weight of 30,000 pounds far surpasses closest competitor’s 23,100-pound max*
> 
> • 850 lb.-ft. Cummins Turbo Diesel is tops for torque
> 
> • *37,600-pound Gross Combined Weight Rating leads all heavy-duty pickups*
> 
> • Ram 2500 leads all ¾-ton pickups
> 
> • Ram Chassis Cab trucks also deliver best-in-class towing
> 
> In the quest to build the most capable trucks available, Ram officially released class-leading towing and weight ratings for its 2013 line of Ram Heavy Duty pickups and Chassis Cab trucks.
> 
> The Ram 3500 Heavy Duty pickup will claim a 30,000-pound trailer capacity thanks to a new class-exclusive 50,000 pounds-per-square-inch, high-strength steel frame, improved transfer case, higher-load transmission, an upgraded 6.7-liter Cummins Turbo Diesel engine with a best-in-class 850 lb.-ft. of torque and other significant driveline upgrades.
> 
> *Ram’s closest competitor is limited to a 23,100-pound maximum trailer.*
> 
> "We built the new 2013 Ram Heavy Duty to be the undisputed Heavy Duty ‘King of the Road.’ These new rigs deliver on the number one key attribute most critical to these customers: uncompromising capability,” said Fred Diaz, President and CEO — Ram Truck Brand and Chrysler de Mexico, Chrysler Group LLC. “Towing capability, reliability and engine performance are ranked first through third, respectively, with HD customers. The 2013 Ram Heavy Duty trucks unequivocally deliver all those things, as well as a very low total cost of ownership.”
> 
> *The Ram 3500’s Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)* -- which is defined by the maximum combined weight of the truck, payload and trailer -- has been raised to *37,600 pounds, which again far surpasses the closest competitor’s 30,500-pound GCWR. *
> 
> Ram has increased the capability in its other truck models as well.
> 
> For 2013, the Ram 2500 will also benefit from increased towing and GCWR. At 18,350 and 25,000, Ram 2500’s towing and GCW ratings are also best among ¾-ton pickups.
> 
> Ram Chassis Cab trucks also deliver maximum capability with best-in-class towing and GCWR figures 29,600 pounds and 37,500 pounds, respectively (5500 model).
> 
> Ram Heavy Duty adds a number of new features for 2013, including a factory-integrated fifth-wheel and gooseneck hitch mount, a 17,000-pound Class V hitch with 1,800 pounds of tongue weight, class-exclusive electronic stability control (ESC) for dual-rear-wheels and a new Center High-Mounted Stop Light (CHMSL) –positioned camera, the first of its kind in the heavy-duty pickup category, to provide a full view of the bed for easier hook-up of fifth-wheel or gooseneck trailers as well as monitoring cargo.
> 
> For 2013, all Ram Heavy Duty diesels benefit from an all-new cooling system. A high-efficiency fan, dual radiators, dual transmission coolers and low-slung charge air cooler afford 25 percent more heat-rejection capacity. Lower operating temperatures deliver improved performance, durability and lower operating costs. Cummins Turbo Diesel-equipped Ram trucks also provide best-in-class 15,000-mile oil change intervals.
> 
> Ram is also introducing an industry-exclusive Ram Active Air intake system. When the intake system senses extreme heat, it draws cooler air from the front of the vehicle – a function that also engages at high altitudes for superior throttle response in low oxygen environments. When conditions are wet from snow, ice or water-fording, the system pulls air from an under-hood inlet, clear from snow packing and water.
> 
> *Also among the upgrades for 2013, Ram Heavy Duty front drive shafts and U-joints are sized larger to align with the truck’s new Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) and Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR).*
> 
> *To handle the best-in-class towing and payload capability of the new Ram Heavy Duty, a new front and rear suspension system with advanced geometry builds upon the chassis improvements and greatly improves overall roll stiffness. An advanced three-link front suspension on the Ram 3500 is necessary for the vehicle’s higher GVWR and for use with heavy front loads, including snow plows. Additionally, a newly designed Hotchkiss leaf spring rear suspension on the Ram 3500 offers improved ride and handling while delivering higher towing and payload capability.*


----------



## Goose IBEW

What a great thread. Go ahead and spend $200,000 on your next three trucks, I will keep chugging along in my '91 F350. I have a crew cab 4x4 long bed srw and its my one vehicle that does what ever I may need of it. From vacationing to pulling a gross weight of 28,000lbs, not a problem. Laugh, say what you want, The old 7.3 IDI with an ATS turbo, 4:10's and 5 speed is getting the job done, just maybe not as fast as your super new electronic gizmo, choked on pollution crap of a truck that the government is forcing down our throats. 

My truck spent its first 17 years with a major logging outfit in Oregon and has been with me since '08. Still has the original king pins in the D60 front. Oh yeah, the manufacturers did away with something that lasts that long for the automated assembly line friendliness of ball joints, bleh. 

A tow truck operator I know logged and documented 980,000 miles on ONE 7.3 IDI engine, stock oem internals in an F-Superduty, with 5:13 gears. Just think about how many revolutions that engine spun. He worked the truck hard enough to crack apart 3 cabs during the stint. These rigs are stone simple, easy to do the work on them yourself and among the cheapest out there to maintain. I can ship in a rust free truck from California, put in a new drive train, new interior, new paint, tires, go through the chassis and fix anything that's wrong for about $15,000, 1/4 the price of a new truck. In the end, I will put one against any new truck in terms of reliability and the total cost to operate. 

Ford MADE the best diesel trucks. Who makes them now is anybody's guess. I'm a diesel die hard and would probably buy a gas truck if I was forced into a new one at this point.


----------



## K-TRON

Show me a 6.7 which can put out 850lb/ft of torque day in and day out from the factory, and maybe I will believe 1 bit of your post.
I bet my 3.5Liter Detroit with 435lb/ft of torque 16" clutch and 10 speed Spicer will outpull it all day everyday. There isnt one good truck sold on the market today. Gas or diesel, the quality of the truck down to every nut and bolt is simply inferior. Emissions technology, computers, automatic transmissions, and aluminum castings do not belong in an engine. Forged steel, and cast iron separates the big boys from the little girls. My friends 1975 Brockway 761 came with a factory 575hp V12 and a GVWR of 180K. Fast forward 30 years and there isnt one over the road truck short of a Cline/Pacific Heavy Hauler which can out pull it. A buddy of mine just bought a new 2013 F750 Ford with a Cummins diesel and Allison automatic. Although rated with a 3.25 ton chassis, the chassis is merely half the size of the 3 ton chassis on my 1979 GMC 7000. Coil over suspension, bahhaa, Ive got 25 leaves in the back over a 28,000lbs Eaton rear. There aint nothing nice about new trucks other than push button this and that. I'll take my old school diesel over anything new all day every day! Hell if the DMV let me drive my 1912 Rumely Oil Pull E on the road, I'd take it everywhere! That summ##### can pull a 20 bottom plow @ 300rpm 

Chris


----------



## mhrischuk

I won't argue much over the last two posts simply cause you guys are right! Unfortunately we are where we are due to labor costs and environmental costs.
Heavy loads are still being pulled with the new trucks. They are expensive to buy, expensive to fix. They do have the power though, you can't argue with that. My 04 Dodge dynos 540/1036 (modded). You can be sure I can push loads of torque continuously, way more than your old Navistars. I expect high miles on my truck too... maybe not 980,000 but I'm sure I can get to 300-400 thousand.

K-TRON, you know darn well they all... even back in the day, give "peak" specs so if you have an old school diesel pickup you can be sure back then they promised the highest TQ based on peak too.

I wouldn't mind all the crap under the hood and bolted to the exhaust if it worked without all the issues it causes these days. They all have been having problems with that "regen" cycle that burns the soot out of the DPF. The big problem is that the end users driving habits vary so greatly that they can't get a good handle on when and how long to regen. And if you don't drive hard and get the sysyem hot for long enough it has regen issues.

Ever look under the hood of new Ford diesel? It's ridiculous. .







One thing I gotta give RAM and Cummins... you can still see the ground on both sides of the engine from above

Here's my Dodge..... look... you can reach down and touch the turbo otstir:
And that's the asphalt down there.


----------



## mtrees

Every year every manufacturer claims to have the greatest payload and towing capacity. There is only 1 number that counts. 36 straight years Ford has sold the most trucks!! What makes this even more amazing is the fact that they offer far fewer incentives to the customer than Goverment motors part 1 (GM) or Goverment motors part (2).

We stood on our own and we build the best truck!! I'm proud to not have been in an Obama motors dealership.


----------



## mhrischuk

mtrees said:


> Every year every manufacturer claims to have the greatest payload and towing capacity. There is only 1 number that counts. 36 straight years Ford has sold the most trucks!! What makes this even more amazing is the fact that they offer far fewer incentives to the customer than Goverment motors part 1 (GM) or Goverment motors part (2).
> 
> We stood on our own and we build the best truck!! I'm proud to not have been in an Obama motors dealership.




Ford makes a nice truck and the SuperDuty has been the commercial leader... not because of the diesel though... more because of it's size. The whole truck overall is sized larger than what GM and Dodge offer. That gives them a huge edge in that mid level commercial market like utility trucks, construction and landscaping. The interiors are significantly roomier than the competition. More room for the crew.

RAM came out with 30,000 pounds.... 5000 more than anyone else. If they are lying about it I think they might get called on it because this is a highly competitive spec.

As far as diesel is concerned, Ford is by far the worst. But hey... they still sell. What does that tell you? I don't even want to say it. At least they are smart enough to put the Cummins in the med duty Fords LOL


----------



## mtrees

mhrischuk said:


> Ford makes a nice truck and the SuperDuty has been the commercial leader... not because of the diesel though... more because of it's size. The whole truck overall is sized larger than what GM and Dodge offer. That gives them a huge edge in that mid level commercial market like utility trucks, construction and landscaping. The interiors are significantly roomier than the competition. More room for the crew.
> 
> RAM came out with 30,000 pounds.... 5000 more than anyone else. If they are lying about it I think they might get called on it because this is a highly competitive spec.
> 
> As far as diesel is concerned, Ford is by far the worst. But hey... they still sell. What does that tell you? I don't even want to say it. At least they are smart enough to put the Cummins in the med duty Fords LOL



I agree and another fact that is amazing is that Ford owns Cummins. Go go figure.


----------



## mhrischuk

mtrees said:


> I agree and another fact that is amazing is that Ford owns Cummins. Go go figure.



I hope you aren't serious about that statement or are you just poking fun?


----------



## stihl sawing

mtrees said:


> I agree and another fact that is amazing is that Ford owns Cummins. Go go figure.


Wrong! Better do some checking.


----------



## mtrees

It was a joke


----------



## Goose IBEW

If I want to play the HP game, I can put in a DT360. The DT broke a 1000hp in the sled pulling world before any Cummins knew what 1000hp was. Its wet sleeve design is superior to the Cummins and makes for easy rebuilds too. The 6BT is a good engine, International has it beat though.


----------



## mhrischuk

Goose IBEW said:


> If I want to play the HP game, I can put in a DT360. The DT broke a 1000hp in the sled pulling world before any Cummins knew what 1000hp was. Its wet sleeve design is superior to the Cummins and makes for easy rebuilds too. The 6BT is a good engine, International has it beat though.



So what pickup truck came with a DT360?


----------



## terryknight

mhrischuk said:


> So what pickup truck came with a DT360?



whichever one he wants to build


----------



## mhrischuk

terryknight said:


> whichever one he wants to build



Yea so its anything goes now lol


----------



## Goose IBEW

mhrischuk said:


> They do have the power though, you can't argue with that. My 04 Dodge dynos 540/1036 (modded). You can be sure I can push loads of torque continuously, way more than your old Navistars.



That sounds like a fun truck to drive. My IDI was dyno'ed at 217hp/385ftlbs. so yes, you are absolutely correct, the old Navistars are anemic compared to todays trucks. They did however, double the mileage of the gassers built in that era, when diesel was CHEAPER than gasoline. Yes, my thoughts are narrow minded and are not very realistic for a large company. I'd bet there are quite a few small shops that rely on the simple layout and cheap parts of an older rig such as an IDI. 

I'd be at a loss as I know many guys have success with the Dmax and Cummins, and my beloved Fords went south with the 6.0 and newer powerplants. I'd have to spend months researching and test driving a newer truck, it would rack my brain. In the end, I'd be modding it anyway to make up for the factory deficiencies. Probably a 2010 F350 crew cab long bed, 6 speed manual,single rear wheel, 4x4. I'd start with replacing the radiator as they are known to be bad, intake, tuner, exhaust, DPF delete, EGR delete, GV overdrive. 4" of lift and some nice tires on 17 or 18" rims, rear air bags for hauling heavy. It would basically be a clone of my 1991( with 300 extra hp) so I will keep the old, slow truck and be $50,000 ahead.


----------



## mhrischuk

The latest Ford designed 6.7 has two separate cooling systems. 
Only RAM offers a manual trans these days.

Might as well drop a Cummins in it 

The Duramax has been doing pretty well. I just don't like the low rider independent front suspension and the tacky styling. I had the first year (2001) GMC Dmax. That was a great running truck with a really nice drivetrain. Unfortunately the first couple of years were injector eaters and iffy headgaskets.

Things are changing as the fed is cracking down on the diesel aftermarket now. EDGE Products just got fined $500,000. Gov almost put them out of business.


----------



## stihl sawing

The EPA has killed diesel engines, Once they got good mileage and now the gas engines get better. Don't know if i would buy another one. Several things have turned me off them. all the stuff crammed on the motors now and the extra junk you have to put in the fuel. I'd have to need one pretty bad to buy another, not to mention the price of them now.:msp_w00t:


----------



## terryknight

buy an older one and mod it. between my faher and i we have had 4 different cummins trucks, and 7, 7.3s still have one cummins and 6 7.3s. and how much longer will dodge offer a manaul? i heard they were on the way out.


----------



## mhrischuk

terryknight said:


> buy an older one and mod it. between my faher and i we have had 4 different cummins trucks, and 7, 7.3s still have one cummins and 6 7.3s. and how much longer will dodge offer a manaul? i heard they were on the way out.



Imagine the truck you could build with 30-40K.


----------



## terryknight

mhrischuk said:


> Imagine the truck you could build with 30-40K.



it'd still be a ford.:msp_biggrin:


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## mhrischuk

terryknight said:


> it'd still be a ford.:msp_biggrin:



With a Cummins


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## terryknight

mhrischuk said:


> With a Cummins



yeah an 8.3


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## Goose IBEW

terryknight said:


> it'd still be a ford.:msp_biggrin:



A dt360. And once again, back to building our trucks because the government killed the new ones.


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## mhrischuk

Goose IBEW said:


> A dt360. And once again, back to building our trucks because the government killed the new ones.



Ain't that the truth.


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## Goose IBEW

Worse than "Who's on First?" Haha.:msp_biggrin:


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## 1stgenfarmboy

my old 93 Dodge cummins, 146k, was a W250 but i needed a dually so i did a conversion and paint.


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## PLMCRZY

1stgenfarmboy said:


> my old 93 Dodge cummins, 146k, was a W250 but i needed a dually so i did a conversion and paint.



I remember you from cumminsforum. Nice truck

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## mhrischuk

That is one gorgeous 1st gen!


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## Hedgerow

Andydodgegeek needs to see that conversion...
He'd dig it...


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## bigbadbob

stihl sawing said:


> The EPA has killed diesel engines, Once they got good mileage and now the gas engines get better. Don't know if i would buy another one. Several things have turned me off them. all the stuff crammed on the motors now and the extra junk you have to put in the fuel. I'd have to need one pretty bad to buy another, not to mention the price of them now.:msp_w00t:


Very well said.
I have two diesels, no more, bought them when diesel was cheaper than gas.
You cant justify the extra cost and maintenance either. 10,000 buy a lot of gas!!!:msp_scared:


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## 1stgenfarmboy

Yeh when i saw you here i thought " OH GOOD LAWD" PLMCRZY is here too. 

Dar


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## PLMCRZY

1stgenfarmboy said:


> Yeh when i saw you here i thought " OH GOOD LAWD" PLMCRZY is here too.
> 
> Dar



I was banned from there  lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## mhrischuk

*RAM 2500's hitting the lot...*

Just saw a 2013 2500HD with the new DEF Cummins on the lot!

Was getting my free oil change and took a walk through the dealer lot. Low and behold... a brand spankin new 2013 HD with the new DEF Cummins.....











Capless fuel fill


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## mhrischuk

*Here are the new 1500's Love the look*


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## husqvarnaguy

mhrischuk said:


> Just saw a 2500HD with the new DEF Cummins on the lot!
> 
> Was getting my free oil change and took a walk through the dealer lot. Low and behold... a brand spankin new 2013 HD with the new DEF Cummins.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Capless fuel fill



Too nice for a work truck.


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## RVALUE

Sorry to just butt in, but I just got a new to me 07 2500 w/ cummins. It ran smooth when I picked it up, then runs rough now. I've put 2 gallons of additive in , no better.

What maybe is the problem?


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## mhrischuk

When the fuel filter starts getting restrictive it will run rough.


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## RVALUE

I put a new one in, no difference.....


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## RVALUE

Rough at idle, don't notice it running.


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## RVALUE

I had it detailed, could an injector wire etc. be off?


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## mhrischuk

I get rough idle off and on. To me it's just the nature of the beast.


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## mdavlee

Is it just rough when you start it in the morning? Is there any white smoke to go along with the rough idle? The 5.9 with a bad injector will have those symptoms. The way to test is take off the valve cover and loosen one wire on each injector. Start the truck up and lift the wire off one at a time. If you lift the wire and the idle doesn't change any that's the bad one.


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## mhrischuk

The dealer can hook up their handheld and shut down injectors one at a time too. I just had mine done. Charged me $75. Beats taking the cover off and going down the line with the wires. I had two slightly off injectors but nothing serious.


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## Goose IBEW

1stgenfarmboy said:


> my old 93 Dodge cummins, 146k, was a W250 but i needed a dually so i did a conversion and paint.



That truck looks awesome in both configurations. I'd keep that one for a long time if I were you. A new truck would have nothing on yours.


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## mdavlee

I had 2 93s W250s myself. I wish I had kept the 2nd one. It was real nice and less than 150k miles. 

I'm too cheap to go to a dealer so I do the pull the cover and the wires. It's 3 10mm bolts and 6 8mm nuts on the injectors.


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## 1stgenfarmboy

Yes sir...i have been in my engine a bit also, very simple and reliable powerhouse.

i'm in the 375hp/775ftlb range.


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## terryknight

your engine is entirely too clean


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## mhrischuk

Nice BHAF


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## Blades of stihl

*The best diesel truck:*

the BEST diesel truck is : drumroll please... a Ford 1 ton body with a Cummins motor and an Allison auto out of a GMC. Maybe a Fuller 10 speed road ranger if you can fit it. Make sure you put the seat from the GMC in there too! The big three all have good years/bad years, and best this and not so great that and plenty of die hard brand loyal fans. If I were to put together a best truck it would be as stated above. However, the Toyota hi-lux is diesel truly is the BEST diesel truck there is but it is only a 1/4 ton.


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## Sal C

Your all wrong.

Western Star and Volvo make the best diesel trucks.

Now for a pick up, I say the Blue oval makes the best.


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## samdweezel05

I have owned them all. Cummins, Duramax and now Powerstroke. I loved my 94' 12 valve, I loved my 03' Duramax even more and now I have a 2012 6.7L Powerstroke. Jury is still out on the Powerstroke. Decent power in stock form and it doesn't look all that bad either. It has some big shoes to fill as my Duramax was 606hp and 1194tq at the wheels on the dyno.


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## samdweezel05

1stgenfarmboy said:


> my old 93 Dodge cummins, 146k, was a W250 but i needed a dually so i did a conversion and paint.



That is one of the nicest, if the the nicest, W250 I have ever seen. I am a sucker for a reg cab long box and to be a dually on top of that.....Awesome.


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## benp

I started with a Powerstroke but my heart is and always be with 6 in a row.

I sold my old 01 3/4 ton Cummins last year and I have been wanting to have the clack clack clack back in my life for a little while. 

My old truck came back up for sale but that would be like going back out with a girl that went out with someone else for a year and now you have her back. Not happening. 

I also have had this creeping mid life crisis issue as of late. Aaaaaaand since I dont have any chest hair I couldn't get a Corvette. 

Soooooo, I fell back what I knew best. Things that are fast.....that are not supposed to be fast......and NOW draw alot of strange looks.

I have long been a fan of 2wd straight cab 3/4 ton short box Dodges............and I happened upon one. 

I picked this up last month. 






With this mayhem under the hood.





The first response out of peoples mouth is "What are you going to haul with that?" Mine reply is "A*S. And lots of it."

Driving it reminds me of an old 60's muscle car. It's loud, uncompromising, will try to kill you, and lets you know how bad your roads really are. Perfect.

An absolute, unbridled, haywire, blast to drive. It has dyno'd 677/1146. 

The rear end will break loose and start skating at 70 mph when the gorillas wake up and start singing if you stab the throttle wrong. And at 70 psi, sing they do. Tickling it and rolling into the boost it is a fun ride.

I have got more double takes from people because this little pickup, that sounds like a Mack truck, just pulled into the diesel pump. 

I have other vehicles to do work. 

This is just a fast toy.......that shouldn't be. What I have always loved about modified diesels.


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## mdavlee

benp said:


> I started with a Powerstroke but my heart is and always be with 6 in a row.
> 
> I sold my old 01 3/4 ton Cummins last year and I have been wanting to have the clack clack clack back in my life for a little while.
> 
> My old truck came back up for sale but that would be like going back out with a girl that went out with someone else for a year and now you have her back. Not happening.
> 
> I also have had this creeping mid life crisis issue as of late. Aaaaaaand since I dont have any chest hair I couldn't get a Corvette.
> 
> Soooooo, I fell back what I knew best. Things that are fast.....that are not supposed to be fast......and NOW draw alot of strange looks.
> 
> I have long been a fan of 2wd straight cab 3/4 ton short box Dodges............and I happened upon one.
> 
> I picked this up last month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With this mayhem under the hood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first response out of peoples mouth is "What are you going to haul with that?" Mine reply is "A*S. And lots of it."
> 
> Driving it reminds me of an old 60's muscle car. It's loud, uncompromising, will try to kill you, and lets you know how bad your roads really are. Perfect.
> 
> An absolute, unbridled, haywire, blast to drive. It has dyno'd 677/1146.
> 
> The rear end will break loose and start skating at 70 mph when the gorillas wake up and start singing if you stab the throttle wrong. And at 70 psi, sing they do. Tickling it and rolling into the boost it is a fun ride.
> 
> I have got more double takes from people because this little pickup, that sounds like a Mack truck, just pulled into the diesel pump.
> 
> I have other vehicles to do work.
> 
> This is just a fast toy.......that shouldn't be. What I have always loved about modified diesels.



I bet that is a fun ride. Harmon was the first I seen that had a 2wd like that set up. I guess it gets pretty good mileage too.


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## benp

I have zero clue on the mileage due to the , (cough), test and tunes....

And yes, Garmon is who turned me onto this when he did that build. So wrong...that it was so right.

The mileage is zero in the area of what he got. This was built for the track with a lot of spray. I have a fully locked D80 with 3.54's. 

Funny how a fully locked rear scares folks in the parking lot of a store when the trucks barking with every turn you make.


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## KodiakKen

*Funny I come across this thred*

My buddy just called me not long ago..knowing I am a die hard Ford guy...asked me what what the best diesel.. I told him there wasn't one. Ford is all in house with a new motor..descent tranny..dodge has a long built bullet proof motor. bad tranny...chevy is good but limited motor with the bulletproof tranny....find a 5 year old dodge and put a chevy tranny in it. which killed me all the way around..Ford changes everything..they don't stick with anything tried and true..how long has the current dodge diesel been out? How long has the Allison chevy tranny been out? use to be you put a chevy motor in a ford truck and it would last forever..that is dating back to the late 70's...now dodge got government money and their r&d people finally started something. screw the 8 cylinder motor saving money by cutting to 4 cylinders. why have a v-8...oh yeah..a computer that nobody can work on..wtf happened to America. We used to run the world..now we pay everyone else to tell us we make too much pollution..KMA..I don't have emissions on my vehicles I don't have spark screens on my chainsaws. I don't feed my dogs soy and by GOD I don't eat soy. Let's stand up. Let government do their thing nad we will make it better and tell every other brother than can listen how to make things right again! nuff said


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## Goose IBEW

Blades of stihl said:


> the BEST diesel truck is : drumroll please... a Ford 1 ton body with a *International DT360* motor and a Fuller 10 speed road ranger.



There ya go, fixed it for ya.:hmm3grin2orange: This thread is hard to stay away from. Some VERY impressive trucks and too easy to stir the pot.:msp_tongue:uttahere2:


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