# Air Powerd Throwline Cannon



## bonner1040 (Jan 31, 2012)

Air Powerd Throwline Cannon
http://youtu.be/qamzqQkxsqI

So we made an air cannon. The only power source is a standard bicycle pump or any random compressor or similar air source. See a rough drawing here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachm...ent/220503d1327867592-bazookajoeaircannon-jpg

The first build was PVC which was definitely a mistake. It exploded @ 60psi twice. The second build is all steel and much sleeker. So far we have been using 12 and 16 ounce Weaver weights and the 16 works best. Easily launches either weight REALLY HIGH (I initially said 200' but have yet to measure it accurately). By decreasing the PSI you can control and aim with remarkable accuracy and repeatability. It stands a little over 6 feet assembled and the end easily pivots on the ground for aiming and recoil free firing.

The build was really easy:

Assemble pieces as in drawing using teflon tape and pipe wrenches.

The ball valve should have handle @ 90 degrees to tube for “closed/armed”. My experience is that it works best when the “trigger” mechanism is to pull the handle towards the user.

1.	Set valve to “closed/armed” 
2.	attach pump to sniffer valve (located on T fitting)

3.	Load throwball attached to throwline of choice. (it will take some rolling and mabe a stick to jam it in there. A good fit is best.

4.	Pump to between 40 and 100 psi depending on weight and height.

5.	Aim . Fire. Awesome huh?

NOTE:
Regrettably the two outside videos looked really good in 1080 but once compressed to 960 for youtube/ivideo convenience they didnt look as great. Both height tests with the tree outside were well over the tree.

This is the first video i have ever edited and uses footage from my phone and the Contour Roam i just bought this week. I will hopefully get a better video put together and posted 1080p quality soon.


----------



## bonner1040 (Jan 31, 2012)

I bumped this from the gear thread.


----------



## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 1, 2012)

Cool build, I was tinkering in my head with potata gun stuff, and paint ball but the air pump gives you free recharge and the valume needed for normal throw line and a lot of chipper trucks have air pulled off the air ride drivers seat, pretty cool,
Paul


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

That thing is pretty cool! Need to paint it and come up with a good name for it! "tree mortar" Tree guys invent the craziest things! The super troll came up with something like that, but yours is better


----------



## dbl612 (Feb 1, 2012)

*mortar*



sgreanbeans said:


> That thing is pretty cool! Need to paint it and come up with a good name for it! "tree mortar" Tree guys invent the craziest things! The super troll came up with something like that, but yours is better


the term "tree mortar" is not used on this forum except by AA. lol.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Feb 1, 2012)

Pretty neat, but my big shot works just fine. :biggrin: The one advantage I can see is that it looks way more durable if you were to ditch the bicycle pump and air it up with connector off your truck. Then it would simply be a steel tube you could store just about anywhere.


----------



## the Aerialist (Feb 1, 2012)

*Air Canon Line Launcher ...*

The Air Canon was the first shot at finding a superior solution to the "Big Shot". The first iteration blew apart in my hands when we tried to get it up to 100 psi so PVC may not be the best building material. We put a 60 psi pop off valve on it to keep that from happening again and it didn't, but recharging it was a pain.

[video=youtube;YIx_TUXthJw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIx_TUXthJw&list=UUaaT_qAfDa8u2flhJ7rV6Ig&index=44&feature=plcp[/video]

After that a neighbor showed me his Retrieve-R-Trainer, a buoy launcher for training dogs to retrieve. Using .22 caliber blanks was way faster and more convenient than pumping it up to pressure with a bicycle pump, or even filling it with a tank.

[video=youtube;pa6F1q8cD0M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6F1q8cD0M&list=UUaaT_qAfDa8u2flhJ7rV6Ig&index=38&feature=plcp[/video]

Here is a link to where you can get the Retrieve-R-Trainer:

DELUXE Retriev-R-Trainer Dummy Launcher Kit. $134.95. FREE Shipping US48

For those of you who would like to build an Air Canon for ~ $50 here is a pretty good design:

[video=youtube;9oARDyn4WwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9oARDyn4WwE#![/video]


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 1, 2012)

I feel that it is far and above better than the big shot. Its easier, safer, and more durable. Not to mention it is more powerful and more accurate, not just from an aiming sense but from a position of hitting a specific height. Once you have the psi dialed in you can hit pretty much anywhere first or second shot. Admittedly the big shot likely gets the first shot off faster using the hand pump.

Once you pump it up it holds the pressure safely so you can aim it and fire. The pipe itself isnt going to wear out and the pressures used normally <100psi are FAR below the rating for the black gas pipe. There is no risk or the bands breaking or needing to be replaced. I plan to replace my barrel with one made of the same steel as the rest for increased longevity, the threads on the barrel are wearing since it is PVC, but I had it left over so I used it.

The whole rig fits in the pruner box perfect. I have a deign drawn up to make a U-Shaped model that is half the height or possibly just a shorter one with a larger reservoir to fit in my car (currently it DOES fit, just not well).

With some 'wadding' (plastic grocery bag) you can 'shoot' a rock or a piece of rake handle farther than you can see. It is a lot of fun to say the least.

Lastly; unlike a potato gun there is no aerosol, or combustible which means no explosion. It isnt classified like a potato gun which is actually more akin to a firearm. This means you are a lot less likely to incur trouble with local authorities (no guarantees though).

APTA Launcher = Air-Powered-Tree-Access ?


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 1, 2012)

the Aerialist said:


> The Air Canon was the first shot at finding a superior solution to the "Big Shot". The first iteration blew apart in my hands when we tried to get it up to 100 psi so PVC may not be the best building material. We put a 60 psi pop off valve on it to keep that from happening again and it didn't, but recharging it was a pain.
> 
> After that a neighbor showed me his Retrieve-R-Trainer, a buoy launcher for training dogs to retrieve. Using .22 caliber blanks was way faster and more convenient than pumping it up to pressure with a bicycle pump, or even filling it with a tank.



It is nice that other people had similar ideas, It means that I am not crazy! Well no more than others at least.

I had a similar experience with the PVC and wasn't thrilled which is why I switched to steel.

As far as the .22 linegun goes; I considered that but there were two factors that I couldn't get over. One it is illegal to discharge a firearm within city limits in most of the municipalities that I work in and I am sure it would disturb SOME homeowners. Secondly you have no ability to control the power of your shot. My APTA-Launcher (like the name??) can shoot a line clear over any tree I have seen here in the midwest, but that doesn't do me any good. I cannot isolate a line for any meaningful tree work if it is draped over the entire tree and all its tips. I can target a crotch with the APTA from 15' past 100' (not that i would use for low stuff but entirely possible).

It looks like we were thinking along the same lines though so cheers!

EDIT: *I would recommend, to anyone wanting to do this, in the strongest way possible to NOT use PVC*. I watched some of the videos by the guy who posted the build for the under $50 cannon. That guy obviously knows what he is doing and seems like an engineer, but the weights of his projectiles are much lower than 16oz. shot bags and the PSI's he is working with are close if not in excess of where I experienced failure of the PVC welds.

*I strongly believe that PVC is an unsafe material to use for this purpose in a commercial setting*. Not to mention the lack of durability and the *possibility of sustaining fracture that could lead to critical failure and an explosion with plastic shrapnel.*


----------



## Tree Pig (Feb 1, 2012)

Nice idea... big shot and throwing seem to work fine but I give you credit for the work... The idea it self has been around for some time.. here is a video from like 3 years ago you see in the beginning he is firing with air cannon.

[video=youtube;L8tjrAYaOm4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8tjrAYaOm4&feature=plcp&context=C3535aadUDOEgsToPDskJH8_MWEAzFDk5A8TensPE0[/video]


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 1, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> Pretty neat, but my big shot works just fine. :biggrin: The one advantage I can see is that it looks way more durable if you were to ditch the bicycle pump and air it up with connector off your truck. Then it would simply be a steel tube you could store just about anywhere.[/QUOTE
> Make one that can hold more pressure and load it up to like 200psi, wonder how high that would go! That would be a good way to empty a nest!
> 
> Yep,been around a long time, seen on a show, the old war movies, they had one that shot a grapple hook with rope to scale walls, that was in WW2 or Korea


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 1, 2012)

It could easily hold 200psi. The bike pump is the limitation.


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 1, 2012)

I certainly did not invent it. This is just my personal build.


----------



## Grouchy old man (Feb 1, 2012)

bonner1040 said:


> I had a similar experience with the PVC and wasn't thrilled which is why I switched to steel.
> 
> EDIT: *I would recommend, to anyone wanting to do this, in the strongest way possible to NOT use PVC*. I watched some of the videos by the guy who posted the build for the under $50 cannon. That guy obviously knows what he is doing and seems like an engineer, but the weights of his projectiles are much lower than 16oz. shot bags and the PSI's he is working with are close if not in excess of where I experienced failure of the PVC welds.
> 
> *I strongly believe that PVC is an unsafe material to use for this purpose in a commercial setting*. Not to mention the lack of durability and the *possibility of sustaining fracture that could lead to critical failure and an explosion with plastic shrapnel.*



Right, it's pretty well known. That's why plumbers are prohibited from testing PVC plumbing for leaks with compressed air at any pressure.


----------



## treemandan (Feb 1, 2012)

you'll shoot yer eye out kid!

Anything like that is cool but...

I like how you made yours. The length is right on. Pumping it up looks a little much. Maybe put a air gun charger on there?


----------



## the Aerialist (Feb 1, 2012)

*Care must be exercised ...*



bonner1040 said:


> I feel that it is far and above better than the big shot. Its easier, safer, and more durable. Not to mention it is more powerful and more accurate, not just from an aiming sense but from a position of hitting a specific height. Once you have the psi dialed in you can hit pretty much anywhere first or second shot. Admittedly the big shot likely gets the first shot off faster using the hand pump...



I'll agree with that. It's much easier to aim and hold than a Big Shot, sort of analogous to the advantage of a crossbow over a drawn bow. The advantage of using compressed air is being able to use different psi charges to get greater or lesser throw distances.

With the rope gun you can use different strength blanks for getting the same effect. The rope gun can throw the retrieving buoy 200' so you need to be careful about what's on the other side of the tree. It does have quite a loud report for a .22 though. It could be cause for alarm in some neighborhoods. I don't really worry about it though as we generally create quite a bit of noise just running our equipment.

As for Police intervention, I don't even give it a thought, as the rope gun is a tool just like a pneumatic nailer or a .22 blank firing masonry gun, no one has ever hassled me for using it.

Of course accidents can happen so user care is required for any of these tools:







Oops!






Suicide Attempt (I think he made it)


----------



## ATH (Feb 1, 2012)

I made one 4-5 years ago, and filling it was a pain so I switched to a Big Shot and like that better. I find it just as accurate, and plenty powerful (though, not the potential of an air cannon). The Big Shot is certainly not as fun. I may revist the launcher with CO2, as I bought a regulator that fits on paintball bottles and has standard air tool fittings. I am sure I could get quite a few shots out of that and it only costs $5-$6 to refill (just a pain to try to get to the refill place 8-5).

A tennis ball fits perfectly in 2.5" pvc. A tennisball filled with BBs weighs 16 ounces. That goes 90' straight up at about 60-70 psi (obviously depending on air volume).

I did a pvc tank with a sprinkler valve in the U-shape. I would agree that PVC is not as safe as metal. I put a 90 psi valve on it. The likelihood of a catostrophic failure at that pressure is unlikely...but not impossible. And there is no need to go up to 90 psi...I call that my "protection from monentary stupidity" (just so I am not tempted to see how far I can really shoot the ball)

The forest service lab in Madision, WI has a PVC cannon that launches 2x4s through walls that they use to test tornado-worthiness of different materials and designs. I could not find a video in a quick search, but here is an article that has a picture in it: Article here If those engineers think pvc is a worthy material...


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 2, 2012)

I might make one just for fun, I am pretty deadly with the big shot, but would like to have a little more power when trying to set a line in a crotch that is crowded, maybe those air cannons will push thru the twigs and stems?


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 2, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> I might make one just for fun, I am pretty deadly with the big shot, but would like to have a little more power when trying to set a line in a crotch that is crowded, maybe those air cannons will push thru the twigs and stems?



You can have all the power you need. the thing you have to be wary of is blasting through the crotch and then straight through the canopy behind it, which then becomes a recipe for a hangup.

If you want to build let me know, I would love to hear your feedback on it. The whole thing can be built for under $100 with steel components. There are a couple of changes i might make to the existing design so if you are interested we can discuss it.

Last thing I will say about the PVC, I agree that it will, does and has worked. The 2x4 thing, they are engineers. If you are an engineer and can calculate all the stuff by all means go ahead and use PVC. IF you are a TREEMAN like me and work in the realworld where your tools leave the laboratory and sometimes get used in ways other than initially intended, dropped, or banged around etc.... than PLEASE, stick with steel. Silly tree guys, PVC is for plumbers. 

As far as that ropewalker vid with the canopy blaster, I had seen that. I owe credit to him among a few others for giving me the idea to try mine. I used a friends model but didnt like the config, then I saw that pumpkinchunkin thing and i was like OK i can build an air cannon. Also it is important to note my partner Bill Morgan was involved 10% every step of the way on our build. This def isnt my baby.


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 21, 2013)

Some videos of the newest APTA devices!


http://www.youtube.com/embed/OejL3KYjd4M

http://www.youtube.com/embed/nDNUZqy8RIY


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2013)

bonner1040 said:


> Some videos of the newest APTA devices!
> 
> 
> APTA 64 Special - YouTube
> ...



Did you just use a ramrod to stuff a throwball into a barrell? I suggest you call 1-800-fix-head. PRONTO!


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 21, 2013)

treemandan said:


> Did you just use a ramrod to stuff a throwball into a barrell? I suggest you call 1-800-fix-head. PRONTO!



I dont get it?


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2013)

bonner1040 said:


> I dont get it?



Maybe you should call the number then?


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 21, 2013)

treemandan said:


> Maybe you should call the number then?



Thanks for being constructive, now kindly go f yourself.


----------



## Pelorus (Feb 21, 2013)

Equanimity, Nick. :cool2:


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 21, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Equanimity, Nick. :cool2:



I stepped away from it tonight I guess... I will get back there!


----------



## Philbert (Feb 21, 2013)

Very cool. Like the built-in gauge. Diagram of the new pipe layout?

Philbert


----------



## beastmaster (Feb 21, 2013)

Your air gun came out pretty nice. If you had a adjustable CO2 system that would be cool too. I'm going to buy that decoy launcher. It might have some drawbacks, but I like shooting stuff that go bang. It might freak out some HO, so much the better. 
I like shooting over the whole tree some times. I might give the air gun a try too. You seem to have it pretty dialed in. What does it weigh?


----------



## woodchuck357 (Feb 22, 2013)

*I used a bow with a custom blunt arrow and a bow fishing reel*

to put lines in tall trees years ago. I got good at getting the line exactly where I wanted it, no problems until one day 'Barney Fife' showed up and wrote a ticket for using a weapon in city limits. Should have gone to court but was really busy so just paid the fine and kept a lookout for doughnut scarffers after that. Actually Big Shots are illegal to use in most towns if the cops want to push it.


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 22, 2013)

APTA devices are not illegal at all. They hve an ATF classification as a line setting device. Using compressed air and being purpose built as a professional tool, it is neither classified as a destructive device, OR a firearm. Legal in all 50 states bub.

They weigh in at about 25 lbs, all heavy duty steel. An aluminum version is in the works.


----------



## Zale (Feb 22, 2013)

25 lbs. seems a little heavy. What would the new version weigh in at? Cost?


----------



## bonner1040 (Feb 22, 2013)

I should have another unit (64-S shoulder deployed, compact shape) ready in March, right now for the steel versions we are looking at $325 + shipping.

An aluminum version is in the works, I am guessing <10lb but of a different design. Same fundamental use but a different shape. A 6' model is most economical and could probly be had around $250 maybe less, they are actually the best I think as it fits wherever a pruner fits. a version like the 64'S would be really cost prohibitive.

The 64-S's rifle shape is more novelty than anything.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 22, 2013)

Get yourself some liability insurance if you are going to sell a pressurized device that launches something! Probably should set up a separate 'legal entity' so that a claim (frivolous or not) doesn't take your house, etc.

Philbert


----------



## rmihalek (Mar 21, 2013)

*Ham*

If you guys want more information (and some pre-built kits) search for "antenna launcher." Ham radio operators use these to set up emergency antennas.


----------

