# Indoor wood furnace vs. Outdoor Boiler - The differences?



## Shootemup (Feb 4, 2009)

Hi guys....first post, and what a great site!!


The wife and I are looking at a house in central New Hampshire on ~75 acres, and it's currently on propane with hot water baseboards.

I'm just in my preliminary stages of researching but would like to know the pros/cons of both indoor furnaces and outdoor boilers. I've read, through some quick searches, that the indoor furnaces are more efficient; is that true?

It seems as if OWB are more popular here, and figured I'd ask what the story is between the two.


Thanks!!!


Shoot


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## reaperman (Feb 5, 2009)

I guess its the ford/chevy debate. Without going into too much detail, since I have never owned a owb. The people I know with owb's seem to burn quite a bit of wood each season, but remember some of these guys are also meeting all of their domestic hot water needs. Some of these owb installs are quite impressive and complicated looking at the same time. Pumps, zones, plate exchangers, etc. The systems do work, but the upfront costs will surpass most any wood furnace installs to say the least. Wood furnaces do eat their share of wood, but also do the job if installed correctly. As a rule of thumb, the wood furnace would probably make your home hotter, just a like a regular wood stove would. Because once the beast is up and running, your going to get all of the heat it is putting out, whether you want it or not. The difference is the heat will be distrubuted evenly throughout the home. Unlike the wood stove which is notorious for overheating the room it is in. 

If you only have baseboards and no ducting for a forced air furance you may want to consider a indoor boiler, much like a indoor wood furnace, only it heats water to circulate throughout the baseboards. Hope you find the correct solution.


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## Sledge (Feb 5, 2009)

The OWB stoves are great. Set the temp wherever you like, plenty of hot water for long showers and no mess inside the house. The drawback is the ones around here burn a lot of wood. You hear people say they only burn 3 sticks in the morning and three at night, they fail to mention that those sticks are 30" long and12" across.


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## Keevan (Feb 5, 2009)

Are you interested in furnace or or inside wood boiler?


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## ktm rider (Feb 5, 2009)

Are you talking about an INDOOR boiler ( heating water ) or an indoor furnace ( heating air) ????


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## Techstuf (Feb 5, 2009)

I burn less wood than a central boiler, and can supply all domestic hot water needs during burning season. All for 30 times less cost than a central boiler. Of course mine lacks the aesthetics of a furnace/boiler.


TS


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## modn (Feb 5, 2009)

I will burn about 20 face cord, 7ish full cord this year. I cut wood on my own land. I could probably be more efficient with an indoor woodstove/wood furnace. This is the catch....I have no fear of a chimney fire or any wood related fire that will harm my family. I also have no wood smell,ticks, ants, or critters in my house by bringing wood in. This is all due to the wood boiler being outside and away from the house. I had it the other way around most of my life until 30. I sure wouldn't go any other way now that I have it this way. Viewpoints will differ, but for me I will keep burning the extra 2 or so cord.


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## AIM (Feb 5, 2009)

If your already on hot water baseboard it seems that an OWB plumbed into the system would be the easiest. I can't speak for everyone but from what I've seen the OWB burn quite a bit more wood than a forced air wood furnace.
My son in law has a furnace that works great but when it gets to 10° or lower his oil furnace will run to help out.
My OWB on the other hand will always keep up as long as I have a fire.
I would estimate that he goes through a 1/3 less than I do and he has a larger home and WAYYY older and draftier. 
Having your wood and mess outside is priceless but I'll admit those occasional 1:00 AM loadings during frigid windy times really suck bad. 
I went to a wedding this winter and left the house about 2:30. Arrived back home about 1 AM. Loading an OWB after drinking a pile of beer while wearing a suit and tie is no fun at all. Where as standing in a nice warm enviroment doing the same wouldn't have been that bad.
Pro's and con's to both but if your already runnin hot water heat then plumbing into that might be the best way.


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## Shootemup (Feb 5, 2009)

Keevan said:


> Are you interested in furnace or or inside wood boiler?




Sorry for the ignorance, but like another poster mentione, that since I have baseboard heat, I guess we're talking boilers.

The fact that with an indoor unit, the chances for fires in the chimney, and bugs being introduced to the house is greater.

Do you guys have a tacked thread with the manufacturers of all the say top 5 or 10 indoor/outdoor boilers? I'd like to start comparing them.


Thanks for the help so far, this is a must living in New Hampshire, but then again, I have 75 acres of "fuel.


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## Butch(OH) (Feb 5, 2009)

When choosing between a stove and a outdoor boiler there are questions you need to ask of yourself and honestly answer. The primary one being how dedicated do you want to be to burning wood? Everyone is interested in saving on energy bills but experience shows me that few are willing to make the commitments of time and effort needed to heat full time with wood. The stove that occupies my shop is a freebie generated by the energy crisis of the 70s and resultant surge in wood burning. When people got used to $1 oil they found it easier to write a check on Saturday morning and watch football on Saturday afternoon in October than to cut wood. When they got tired of even sweeping around the wood stoves, out to the curb they went. 

A stove is a good way to get into wood burning for several reasons. 
1. You can "test the waters" for less investment than an OWB
2. They burn less wood, (primarily because they heat less of the house nor the domestic water but that is another argument)
3. Should you decide that part time wood burning is for you that is possible.

An OWB could be a poor choice for the same reasons.
1. They are an expensive yard ornament if not used for heating
2 They burn more wood. 8-10 cords of wood cutting is a LOT of work
3. They need to be started up in he fall and operated all winter until late spring.

I own an OWB and love it, but I do not recommend one to a person who has never heated with wood. Test the waters with a stove for at least two years. If you still enjoy the days in the woods and want to cut your heating bills to zero (and your domestic water heating) then check out a boiler, indoor or out, there are advantages and disadvantages to either.


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## Bammer (Feb 5, 2009)

They are busting major cahonies around here about OWB,darn near impossible to install and keep one! Too many yuppies beeotching!


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## Shootemup (Feb 5, 2009)

Bammer said:


> They are busting major cahonies around here about OWB,darn near impossible to install and keep one! Too many yuppies beeotching!




CT - Doesn't surprise me.

Hopefully it's different in New Hampshire. Live Free (from foreign oil) or Die.


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## jburlingham (Feb 5, 2009)

Bammer said:


> They are busting major cahonies around here about OWB,darn near impossible to install and keep one! Too many yuppies beeotching!



Seeing that it's your property tell them to "bite pipe".
Of course your close to the Evils of NYC and the freaky libs that work there. There may exist an ordinance regarding them, if there is I feel bad for you.


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## Bammer (Feb 5, 2009)

jburlingham said:


> Seeing that it's your property tell them to "bite pipe".
> Of course your close to the Evils of NYC and the freaky libs that work there. There may exist an ordinance regarding them, if there is I feel bad for you.



My neighbor (actually behind me some 1000ft) called EPA on me in Jan of 07. They sent a guy out to check my smoke,wife had just loaded the furnace when he arrived,said my smoke was at +40% opacity ! I recieved a registered letter a week later saying if I didn't remedy the situation that I could be fined 25k a day for each day the violation occured!!! WTF?

I did some things and responded to CT EPA and have not heard a word. Until this lady gets a hair across her _ _ _ again???? She's a greenie that doesn't work and just looks for things to ##### at. Her hubby owns a well known chain around here,I'll pass it along via PM just in case she is lurking!!!:censored: :censored: :censored:


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## Ductape (Feb 5, 2009)

Shootemup said:


> CT - Doesn't surprise me.
> 
> Hopefully it's different in New Hampshire. Live Free (from foreign oil) or Die.




Unfortunately, NH just passed OWB regs effective Jan. 1st 2009. I haven't read all the fine print, but the state has made it considerably difficult to install one now. Foolish regs like having the stack be taller than the tallest peak on your house. Prior installs are grandfathered to some extent, but can be shut down by the state if there are complaints from neighbors. Someone will correct me if i'm mistaken on these matters.

So much for "Live Free or Die"...............


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## Shootemup (Feb 5, 2009)

Ductape said:


> Unfortunately, NH just passed OWB regs effective Jan. 1st 2009. I haven't read all the fine print, but the state has made it considerably difficult to install one now. Foolish regs like having the stack be taller than the tallest peak on your house. Prior installs are grandfathered to some extent, but can be shut down by the state if there are complaints from neighbors. Someone will correct me if i'm mistaken on these matters.
> 
> So much for "Live Free or Die"...............



Screw that noise.

What do these environmentalists do when a volcano erupts, and spews enough pollutants into the sky to offset everything man made for 10+ years in one eruption?

Luckily, this house we're buying is on 75 acres, and the closest neighbor is 1/2 mile away.


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## Bammer (Feb 5, 2009)

EPA e-mail to me

I do NOT have a OWB,mistaken device but still threatened!


Hello Mr. XXXXX-

I asked the Compliance Division clerical to pull up their assignment database. The database shows our inspector, XXXX XXXXX, assigned to investigate a complaint by "GREENIE" (no address) regarding smoke at XXXXXXXXXXXX.

XXXX will do an inspection (take opacity reading of smoke thickness, measure stack height, measure distance to property line of the stack, record what kind of materials being burned...and so on). He would then come back to the DEP office and type up an inspection report and recommendations (anything that might be considered in violation or no needed action/no violations etc). It goes through a signature process but they do send you a letter letting you know if anything is wrong. There are requirements for stack height, distance from property line etc.-- see the inserted State Statutes...
Sec. 22a-174k. Outdoor wood-burning furnaces. (a) For purposes of this section, "outdoor wood-burning furnace" means an accessory structure or appliance designed to be located outside living space ordinarily used for human habitation and designed to transfer or provide heat, via liquid or other means, through the burning of wood or solid waste, for heating spaces other than where such structure or appliance is located, any other structure or appliance on the premises, or for heating domestic, swimming pool, hot tub or jacuzzi water. "Outdoor wood-burning furnace" does not include a fire pit, wood-fired barbecue or chiminea.

(b) No person shall, from July 8, 2005, to the effective date of regulations promulgated by the United States Environmental Protection Agency to regulate outdoor wood-burning furnaces, construct, install, establish, modify, operate or use an outdoor wood-burning furnace, unless (1) the outdoor wood-burning furnace was constructed, installed, established, modified, operated or in use prior to July 8, 2005, or (2) the outdoor wood-burning furnace complies with the following:

(A) Installation of the outdoor wood-burning furnace is not less than two hundred feet from the nearest residence not serviced by the outdoor wood-burning furnace;



(B) Installation of the chimney of the outdoor wood-burning furnace is at a height that is more than the height of the roof peaks of the residences that are located within five hundred feet of the outdoor wood-burning furnace, which residences are not serviced by the outdoor wood-burning furnace, provided the chimney height is not more than fifty-five feet;



(C) No other materials are burned in the outdoor wood-burning furnace other than wood that has not been chemically treated; and



(D) Installation and operation of the outdoor wood-burning furnace is in accordance with the manufacturer's written instructions, provided such instructions do not conflict with the provisions of this section.



(c) The provisions of this section shall be enforced by the Commissioner of Environmental Protection and may be enforced by the municipality affected by the operation or potential operation of an outdoor wood-burning furnace.



(d) Any person who operates an outdoor wood-burning furnace in violation of this section shall be deemed to have committed an infraction and shall be fined not more than ninety dollars. Each day of operation of such outdoor wood-burning furnace in violation of this section shall be a separate violation.


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## kevin85 (Feb 5, 2009)

I love my Tarm indoor wood boiler. It provides a good deal of radiant heat so my basement stays at 67 degrees all winter. It handles heating my 3000 sq. ft. house and hot water(no storage).But as everyone says, you have to bring the wood in/bugs/ smaller pieces of wood, etc. Personally, I wouldn't trade mine for an OWB furnace.


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## Ductape (Feb 5, 2009)

Shootemup said:


> Screw that noise.
> 
> What do these environmentalists do when a volcano erupts, and spews enough pollutants into the sky to offset everything man made for 10+ years in one eruption?
> 
> Luckily, this house we're buying is on 75 acres, and the closest neighbor is 1/2 mile away.




I agree !

There are plenty of other specs in the law regarding setbacks from structures and property lines, but obviously those wouldn't concern you with 75 acres.

Out of curiousity, may I ask what part of the state you are looking in?


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## CrappieKeith (Feb 5, 2009)

Another consideration.
For the cost of a boiler you can have A/C added and air filtration with a warm air furnace and you can use them on gravity if the ducting does not make a downward turn..
Water run through pipes does not allow for any air quality.


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## skid row (Feb 5, 2009)

Ductape said:


> I agree !
> 
> There are plenty of other specs in the law regarding setbacks from structures and property lines, but obviously those wouldn't concern you with 75 acres.
> 
> Out of curiousity, may I ask what part of the state you are looking in?



I will bet ALL of those whiners that are crying about woodsmoke were not even alive when coal was the primary heating fuel in the country. 

They are the same type of goofball's you hear complaining at steam/engine shows about the smell. 

Next there will be ordinances stating where you can legally fart.

Just can take the "idiot" out of some people.


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## woodbooga (Feb 5, 2009)

We looked into an OWB but ruled against it pretty much out of the gate. Neighbors are too close in our little industrial revolution-era village, now in the middle of nowhere. We heat with a stove that keeps the oil furnace pretty quiet, even on a -5° morning like today. The old wood furnace is still down in the cellar and rehabbing it is a project I'd like to take on, However, some structural work to the chimney would need to be done first.

Not wanting to scare you off, but before you start thinking too much that those 75 acres are $$$ in the bank, please do be aware that NH's tax system is very regressive. With no sales or income taxes, virtually the whole tax burden of funding education falls on local property owners.

If you go ahead with the purchase and move, try to lay some groundwork to put the wooded acres into current use and possibly obtain tree farm status. Both would mitigate some of the sting of your semi-annual property tax bill.


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## jburlingham (Feb 5, 2009)

Bammer said:


> My neighbor (actually behind me some 1000ft) called EPA on me in Jan of 07. They sent a guy out to check my smoke,wife had just loaded the furnace when he arrived,said my smoke was at +40% opacity ! I recieved a registered letter a week later saying if I didn't remedy the situation that I could be fined 25k a day for each day the violation occured!!! WTF?
> 
> I did some things and responded to CT EPA and have not heard a word. Until this lady gets a hair across her _ _ _ again???? She's a greenie that doesn't work and just looks for things to ##### at. Her hubby owns a well known chain around here,I'll pass it along via PM just in case she is lurking!!!:censored: :censored: :censored:



Let me know what chain, and Ill avoid providing them any buisness:greenchainsaw:


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## Shootemup (Feb 5, 2009)

woodbooga said:


> We looked into an OWB but ruled against it pretty much out of the gate. Neighbors are too close in our little industrial revolution-era village, now in the middle of nowhere. We heat with a stove that keeps the oil furnace pretty quiet, even on a -5° morning like today. The old wood furnace is still down in the cellar and rehabbing it is a project I'd like to take on, However, some structural work to the chimney would need to be done first.
> 
> Not wanting to scare you off, but before you start thinking too much that those 75 acres are $$$ in the bank, please do be aware that NH's tax system is very regressive. With no sales or income taxes, virtually the whole tax burden of funding education falls on local property owners.
> 
> If you go ahead with the purchase and move, try to lay some groundwork to put the wooded acres into current use and possibly obtain tree farm status. Both would mitigate some of the sting of your semi-annual property tax bill.



I'm aware of the tax situation in NH, but everything is a trade-off. I get land, close to the National Forest. My wife gets her new, big house, and gets closer to her family.

We both get land that has water, and we can grow stuff on and be somewhat self sufficient.

About 75% of the land is in current use. The property taxes are about $5200 I believe. 

Am I allowed to still cut trees on my property, even though it's in current use?


Thanks for the help so far guys!!!


CrappieKieth - I like your suggestion, and I'm going to look into it. I know the summers are both somewhat short and mild, so I wonder how much use I'd get our of an AC system.

Shoot


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## woodbooga (Feb 5, 2009)

Shootemup said:


> About 75% of the land is in current use. The property taxes are about $5200 I believe.
> 
> Am I allowed to still cut trees on my property, even though it's in current use?
> 
> Shoot



I'd still look into getting tree farm status. The Society for the Protection of NH Forests of the UNH Cooperative Extension would be good resources. If I recall, I think the minimum acreage requirement is 10acres.

You should have no problem harvesting for your own personal use from 75 acres and still be within what's accepted under CU. The enabling legislation that created it intended to provide farmers and woodlaand owners with some relief as a way of stemming overdevelopment. 

Still, I'd verify with someone more authoratative than yrs truly.


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## CrappieKeith (Feb 5, 2009)

Whatever you decide to pull the pin on make sure the unit you get has these 5 features.
Thermal mass ...the more the better,reburn of gases(30-40%)of your heat can come from burning these gases(smoke),a lot of heat exchanger surface area ,draft alleviation(you only need 400 degree stack temps )and a stat to cycle the burn rate.

Being I live in Mn. where it's always freakin cold....gravity heat is a huge deal.
Keeping my pipes from busting is a main concern plus no scramble when the power goes out.
A problem with cheaper furnaces is that no power means no blower to take heat away from the firebox.This can result in steels letting go and filling the house with smoke.
I only need a/c for about 2-3 months a year ,but when the humidity is high it sure is nice to sit in a cool dry house. I sleep better cool during the summer.
Having oversized ducting costs me less in electricity too.It's easier to move the heat or cooling.
I also have a h.e.p.a.which rids me of any air born pathogens.
My regular filter gets replaced every month or so .My home is pretty must on the lower end of being dusty.
Last .... a good insulated flue is a clean flue and a good drafting flue so no smoke is smelled in the home.
I only have a wood add on but Yukon makes a great multifuel wood/gas or wood/oil furnace where the liquid will lite the solid fuel.
Some day....someday.


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## Mike Van (Feb 5, 2009)

kevin85 said:


> I love my Tarm indoor wood boiler. It provides a good deal of radiant heat so my basement stays at 67 degrees all winter. It handles heating my 3000 sq. ft. house and hot water(no storage).But as everyone says, you have to bring the wood in/bugs/ smaller pieces of wood, etc. Personally, I wouldn't trade mine for an OWB furnace.



Same deal with the Harman I have. Basements at about 70 here.


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## Techstuf (Feb 5, 2009)

Keith, I agree with everything you just said. Especially the part about insulting the flue.

Mine gets insulted several times a season!


lol.


Good points.



TS


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## CrappieKeith (Feb 5, 2009)

I just caught that....insulted/insulated flue


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## twofer (Feb 5, 2009)

*Work with what ya got*

If the house is heated with baseboard I would lean towards an indoor wood boiler since you could hook it directly into the existing system. This would result in a complete pressurized system that doesn't need any water maintenance. In addition to that, an indoor boiler is going to burn less wood.

Man I wish I had baseboard for my EKO...


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## Shootemup (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks guys.

What are some of the top brands of indoor wood boilers?


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## jer427 (Feb 5, 2009)

Tarm, Greenwood, AHS Woodgun to name a few. I have a AHS woodgun and love it. It does take some maintenance every couple days to a week but the wood saved in efficiency is worth it to me. Plus i don't have to clean the chimney out because no creosote is produced. Although i do check it about 1 a month just to make sure.


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## Ductape (Feb 5, 2009)

Tarm has a distributor a lil north of your new house. I think in Lyme.


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## ktm rider (Feb 5, 2009)

I had an OWB for 4 years and now I have an indoor boiler in my detached garage. I burn mostly coal but i do occassionally burn wood in it.

If you have a garage you really can't go wrong with an indoor boiler. They are more efficient and a heck of a lot cheaper than an OWB.

I absolutely hated my OWB. It ate wood and I was a slave to the dam thing. I couldn't get a burn time over 9 hours. ( I know some OWB's are a bit more efficient) 

Something you also have to keep in mind and the main reason I sold the OWB and went with the indoor unit is that it is dam cold outside in the winter and my wife HATED standing out there and tending the fire while I was I work. I wasn't too fond of it either. That is no longer a problem. 

If you don't have a garage why not just buy a Home Depot shed for a grand and put the indoor boiler in side that. that would be alot cheaper than an OWB, have a longer burn time, have an ASME stamped boiler that will last for generations and possibly side step a few of these regulations and Bans that are popping up on OWB's

Just my 2 cents..


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## Shootemup (Feb 5, 2009)

ktm rider said:


> I had an OWB for 4 years and now I have an indoor boiler in my detached garage. I burn mostly coal but i do occassionally burn wood in it.
> 
> If you have a garage you really can't go wrong with an indoor boiler. They are more efficient and a heck of a lot cheaper than an OWB.
> 
> ...



Good points.

The house we are interested in has both a huge garage and basement. 

Do you think the efficiency would be even better with it in the basement as opposed to the garage? The garage has just an attic above it where as the basement has 2 more floors above it.


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## November Wolf (Feb 5, 2009)

I have a OWB and hydronic baseboard inside. I also have a 80 gallon Hyrdojet boiler mate. Nice thing about it is It is heating my home and DHW and I only load it once a day for a 24 hr burn time. The mess is outside and I don't have to bring wood in doors.


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## ktm rider (Feb 6, 2009)

Shootemup said:


> Good points.
> 
> The house we are interested in has both a huge garage and basement.
> 
> Do you think the efficiency would be even better with it in the basement as opposed to the garage? The garage has just an attic above it where as the basement has 2 more floors above it.



I would put it in the garage. That would keep all the mess in the garage and not in the house. Besides, getting enough wood/coal to the basement might be tough. 

I don't think your efficiency would suffer in the garage. Most of the boiler heat is transferred to the water anyway and doesn't through much radiant heat.


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## bobfeather (Feb 6, 2009)

can't speak for owb as i have never owned one but have had indoor wood furance ( air ) for 25 years burn approx 4 full cords a year to heat 1600 sq foot house ( plus basement ) keeping house approx 75 deg sometimes 80, sometimes 65 depending on filling furnace, closing windows etc
for sure there is a mess with wood in basement etc but really can't imagine any other way basement is finished 3/4's, the 1/4 is laundry , mechanical & wood storage never have to go outside thing i am very carefull about is the only wood that gets thrown in is good, dry, clean wood so not bugs etc only dust, bark , crud etc that i sweep up & toss in furnace
bob


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## woodbooga (Feb 6, 2009)

Shootemup said:


> The house we are interested in has both a huge garage and basement.



If you move back this way, you'll need to begin refering to the below-ground part of your house as the cellar. Or rather, the cellah. (Post-vocalic R's are in short supply here soe we economize so they'll be available when it comes time to get sawin'. Which we pronounce as sah-rrin.)


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