# Echo CS-590 timberwolf vs. Echo CS-600P



## Miles86

Howdy;

Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?

cs-590 

cc: 59.8
price: $450-460

cs-600P



cc:59.8
price: $560-590 ??
why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.

Echo claims the cs-590 timberwoof has more power than same size stihl and husqvarna?? They do not give the comparion models form Stihl - Husqvarna.??Ok they did on the pdf chart-stihl 290 stihl 291 and husqvarna 455 rancher, so that is the category for this saw.

See it here:
Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA

I did do a search on this but I didn't get any results so if this is already been discussed sorry in advance, thanks again.

ps : I saw a husqvarna saw ad on TV this weekend and they pronouced husqvarna "hoosqvarna", is that right? :msp_confused:


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## Edge & Engine

The CS-590 is a trimmed down version of the CS-600. it has less power and some cheaper components (handlebar, bar & chain). It's aimed at the farm/ranch market, and if it runs anything like the CS-600 (We have them in stock but I have not run one) it should be a good seller. IMO it is priced very well.


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## Miles86

Thanks again Edge for this info, yes the price looks very good.


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## Franny K

Is there a way to compare vibration and noise on echo chainsaw products with the values husky post?


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## echoshawn

Franny K said:


> Is there a way to compare vibration and noise on echo chainsaw products with the values husky post?



I've run a 600P and husky 460 side by side, same bar/chain length length and make in same wood. Comparable in noise and vibes IMO. I'm sure there's a difference, but not much. I think the Echo is smoother, but that could be just because I prefer my Echo.


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## Hedgerow

Franny K said:


> Is there a way to compare vibration and noise on echo chainsaw products with the values husky post?



Not that I know of... But I'll attest to the fantastic performance, anti-vibe, quietness, and fuel economy of the cs600..
It's a great saw...
The 562xp Husqvarna is the Belle of the ball in that category though...
Also costs more...
Trade off...


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## echoshawn

Hedgerow said:


> Not that I know of... But I'll attest to the fantastic performance, anti-vibe, quietness, and fuel economy of the cs600..
> It's a great saw...
> The 562xp Husqvarna is the Belle of the ball in that category though...
> Also costs more...
> Trade off...



Fair to say the 600P falls between the 460 rancher and the 562, in price and performance.
Nothing I can see in the 590 from the pics/literature so far, lead me to believe it'll be much different than the 600P. I'm guessing, lower grade laminated oregon bar vs the pro-comp, someone else mentioned spur drive vs rim, and a few other lower cost parts to bring the price down is all.
Hope my dealer actually gets one in soon so I can take a look at it.


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## old 040

just got home with the demo 590, headin to woods shortly to give it a run, i'll report back later......................040...............:smile2:


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## Hedgerow

echoshawn said:


> Fair to say the 600P falls between the 460 rancher and the 562, in price and performance.
> Nothing I can see in the 590 from the pics/literature so far, lead me to believe it'll be much different than the 600P. I'm guessing, lower grade laminated oregon bar vs the pro-comp, someone else mentioned spur drive vs rim, and a few other lower cost parts to bring the price down is all.
> Hope my dealer actually gets one in soon so I can take a look at it.



I will see soon, whether the 600 fails to keep up with the 562 in speed. Hopefully one of the boys in Iowa has a stock 562 for a good comparison side by side... And we'll weigh them... full of fuel and Oil...


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## mweba

Stock? 562xp? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Hedgerow

mweba said:


> Stock? 562xp? :hmm3grin2orange:



Yes... You have to un-port yours...
:big_smile:


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## echoshawn

Hedgerow said:


> I will see soon, whether the 600 fails to keep up with the 562 in speed. Hopefully one of the boys in Iowa has a stock 562 for a good comparison side by side... And we'll weigh them... full of fuel and Oil...



Honestly, I'll be MORE surprised if it does keep up, stock vs stock. 
Does outcut a 460 Rancher stock though.
Like I said, between, not equal to a 562..


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## Hedgerow

echoshawn said:


> Honestly, I'll be MORE surprised if it does keep up, stock vs stock.
> Does outcut a 460 Rancher stock though.
> Like I said, between, not equal to a 562..



Me too...
But I'm from the show-me state...
I've run both, and like both.. Just never head to head...
Should be good info regardless...
Do you run all 3???
I have never run the 460 Rancher...


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## echoshawn

Hedgerow said:


> Me too...
> But I'm from the show-me state...
> I've run both, and like both.. Just never head to head...
> Should be good info regardless...
> Do you run all 3???
> I have never run the 460 Rancher...



I've only run the 460 (2 buddys I cut with have them).
Definitely not up to the 600 stock vs stock.
And my 600 isn't fully broken in yet either.
Honestly, no one I run with has any pro level huskys.. Most are firewood hacks like me.
No hardwood experience either. Pretty well limited to softwood around here.


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## old 040

well, fresh out of the woods, i'll only compare the 590 to my 600p, and i must say it runs just as well, not sure if the part number change on the p/c is for different port changes, because it really does run excellent, only issue i saw was less oil than i would like to see on the chain, otherwise without any mods, and only stock, it's an awesome saw for what they will be selling for, a few pics...................................View attachment 289519
View attachment 289521
View attachment 289522
View attachment 289523
View attachment 289524


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## old 040

a few more pics, i dropped a good size maple, and a very good size ash, had everything cut up in less than 40 minutes.................:msp_biggrin:...............not everything i cut is shown, only a small portionView attachment 289529
View attachment 289530
View attachment 289531
View attachment 289532


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## echoshawn

Only outward difference I can see is the translucent fuel tank....


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## M&Rtree

Wonder how the CS600 would do verus a 555 Husky.


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## old 040

wanted to add, that the saw sips fuel, it still had fuel left when i was done with all my cutting.................:msp_biggrin:


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## old 040

echoshawn said:


> Only outward difference I can see is the translucent fuel tank....



yeah, the tank is easy see new, but that could change and be hard to see the fuel level after only a small amount of fade....................:msp_sleep:


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## Chris-PA

I'd asked this before, but is this a strato engine?


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## Hedgerow

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> I'd asked this before, but is this a strato engine?



Yes...


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## Edge & Engine

echoshawn said:


> Honestly, I'll be MORE surprised if it does keep up, stock vs stock.
> Does outcut a 460 Rancher stock though.
> Like I said, between, not equal to a 562..



Don't forget there's different versions of the 600P out there now. Models 2012 and newer have more power than the earlier 600p's


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## cjtreeclimber

The ' Timberwolf '  Echo picked a good name for something probably in the rancher/farmboss class. Is it 55 cc?


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## Edge & Engine

Hedgerow said:


> Yes...



Actually no. The CS-550 is a strato, but neither the 590 or 600 is.


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## echoshawn

Edge & Engine said:


> Don't forget there's different versions of the 600P out there now. Models 2012 and newer have more power than the earlier 600p's



Glad mine is the '12 then


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## echoshawn

Edge & Engine said:


> Actually no. The CS-550 is a strato, but neither the 590 or 600 is.



Aren't the 550P and 600P the same saw, just smaller bore on the 550? :confused2:


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## cjtreeclimber

echoshawn said:


> Glad mine is the '12 then



Does your 600p have the aluminum handle Echoshawn?


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## echoshawn

cjtreeclimber said:


> Does your 600p have the aluminum handle Echoshawn?



Yes it does


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## zogger

old 040 said:


> wanted to add, that the saw sips fuel, it still had fuel left when i was done with all my cutting.................:msp_biggrin:



Are you running the as shipped stock carb tune, or has it been dealer massaged, perhaps wink wink beyond certain normal physical barriers on the screws? Also, how does the plug look after one day use?


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## Hedgerow

echoshawn said:


> Aren't the 550P and 600P the same saw, just smaller bore on the 550? :confused2:



That's what I thought too... But now that I think of it, it has a normal intake track...


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## old 040

zogger said:


> Are you running the as shipped stock carb tune, or has it been dealer massaged, perhaps wink wink beyond certain normal physical barriers on the screws? Also, how does the plug look after one day use?



i made no adjustments to the carb at all, i did seam a bit lean on the top end, but still very close, haven't pulled the plug yet to look at it, i'll check it later today............:msp_wink:


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## old 040

echoshawn said:


> Only outward difference I can see is the translucent fuel tank....



it also has the composite handle like the early 600p............


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## Miles86

old 040 said:


> well, fresh out of the woods, i'll only compare the 590 to my 600p, and i must say it runs just as well, not sure if the part number change on the p/c is for different port changes, because it really does run excellent, only issue i saw was less oil than i would like to see on the chain, otherwise without any mods, and only stock, it's an awesome saw for what they will be selling for, a few pics...................................View attachment 289519
> View attachment 289521
> View attachment 289522
> View attachment 289523
> View attachment 289524



Hi-
I ran a 600P about a year ago, that one also was light on the bar oil, very much like my ms440, I think Echo designed it like that.


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## Majorpayne

Miles86 said:


> Hi-
> I ran a 600P about a year ago, that one also was light on the bar oil, very much like my ms440, I think Echo designed it like that.



They are adjustable and oil fine. I run a 24" bar on mine and it puts out plenty of oil.


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## Chris-PA

Edge & Engine said:


> Actually no. The CS-550 is a strato, but neither the 590 or 600 is.


That's a shame. Do they have any other systems to reduce emissions?


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## zogger

old 040 said:


> i made no adjustments to the carb at all, i did seam a bit lean on the top end, but still very close, haven't pulled the plug yet to look at it, i'll check it later today............:msp_wink:



Yes, thanks for checking. Mine toasted from the factory too lean settings and me pushing it too hard in that condition. I know a lot more about saws now for that not to happen. Limiters, out! Ha!


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## Doug Fir

Miles86 said:


> Howdy;
> 
> Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?
> 
> cs-590
> cc: 59.8
> price: $450-460
> 
> cs-600P
> cc:59.8
> price: $560-590 ??
> why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.
> 
> ...



It looks to me like they are trying to compete against their own stolen 600's that sell on eBay for about $400 (or a bit more). Some of these eBay saws are the older model with the plastic handlebars, which look like a direct match. As they say, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". 

Of course this will only work until stolen 590's start showing up on eBay for $300. :msp_w00t:

Doug


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## old 040

Miles86 said:


> Hi-
> I ran a 600P about a year ago, that one also was light on the bar oil, very much like my ms440, I think Echo designed it like that.



after cleaning the saw back up this morning, the oiler was set only at half flow, opened it up to the most flow and it oils very well now, i'm still very impressed by the 590, and it would make a great firewood saw for the general user...............:msp_thumbup:


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## mountainlake

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> That's a shame. Do they have any other systems to reduce emissions?



Yes, they tune them too lean, easy fix. Steve


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## Chris-PA

mountainlake said:


> Yes, they tune them too lean, easy fix. Steve


I have to assume they are using a cat muffler and limiter caps too?

You should not have to fix something you just bought.


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## zogger

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> I have to assume they are using a cat muffler and limiter caps too?
> 
> You should not have to fix something you just bought.




Nope, we shouldnt, but that is what the dealer prep is now for most all new saws. Disappears into mysterious backroom wink wink nudge nudge...secret alleged dealer only carb tool action....saw comes out with realistic carb settings instead of the fed mandated guaranteed to fry it at some point setting.

Meanwhile, back at the left and right coasts, ship after ship comes in after running bunker fuel across oceans, each ship making more air nasties than every saw ever built...


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## echoshawn

zogger said:


> Nope, we shouldnt, but that is what the dealer prep is now for most all new saws. Disappears into mysterious backroom wink wink nudge nudge...secret alleged dealer only carb tool action....saw comes out with realistic carb settings instead of the fed mandated guaranteed to fry it at some point setting.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the left and right coasts, ship after ship comes in after running bunker fuel across oceans, each ship making more air nasties than every saw ever built...



I was happy my dealer did the 'secret backroom' adjustments. One more reason to only buy from a servicing dealer, not a big box..
Well, unless you're gonna send it off to some hack in Tennessee to grind on it, then buy cheap so you can send pie with it :hmm3grin2orange:
and stuff.....


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## mountainlake

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> I have to assume they are using a cat muffler and limiter caps too?
> 
> You should not have to fix something you just bought.




All new saws every brand come with limiter caps and need to adjusted by either the dealer or you. Some Echo's have cat muffs, some don't but the ones that do sure run a lot better without them. Other brands use cat muffs also. Steve


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## Chris-PA

zogger said:


> Nope, we shouldnt, but that is what the dealer prep is now for most all new saws. Disappears into mysterious backroom wink wink nudge nudge...secret alleged dealer only carb tool action....saw comes out with realistic carb settings instead of the fed mandated guaranteed to fry it at some point setting.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the left and right coasts, ship after ship comes in after running bunker fuel across oceans, each ship making more air nasties than every saw ever built...


Rant follows:

Well, I know about bunker fuel and what comes out of coal fired power plants, and the various inequities of the emissions rules. Nonetheless, 2-stroke *** have been some seriously high output polluters in aggregate based on the fundamental defects of their engine design and the crappy fuel systems that are used. Both of these things can be corrected by better design, and have been - strato address the former. 

I'm predisposed to like Echo stuff, as I have some of their stuff and it is well made. However, here is a company that did not invest in product development and has not ponied up for the royalties for what others developed. They are passing off old tech 2-strokes set too lean, with limiter caps and a cat as a band-aide - on a fuel system that is inherently unable to compensate for variations in temperature, atmospheric changes, variations in fuel characteristics or even load. One of two things will happen with these saws:

1. Someone will "fix" them, which will defeat the emissions control and turn them back into polluters again

2. More likely they will be run as-is, with strong odds they will burn themselves up, wasting the hard earned money of the people who buy them due to no fault of theirs.

Echo knows this. I've spent too much money on various similarly poorly engineered products - mowers and generators with non-adjustable carbs that did not work until I redesigned them, etc. I regard this as an unethical business practice on Echo's part. The technology is developed and even the cheapest plastic Poulan has it - there is no excuse for Echo to pawn off obsolete junk at this price point. Maybe they could try packing the adjuster screws with epoxy next. 

My job title at work is Principal Hardware Engineer. Part of my responsibility is making sure bad ideas and poorly executed junk doesn't get out - I have no patience for such stuff. 

/Rant


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## Hedgerow

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Rant follows:
> 
> Well, I know about bunker fuel and what comes out of coal fired power plants, and the various inequities of the emissions rules. Nonetheless, 2-stroke *** have been some seriously high output polluters in aggregate based on the fundamental defects of their engine design and the crappy fuel systems that are used. Both of these things can be corrected by better design, and have been - strato address the former.
> 
> I'm predisposed to like Echo stuff, as I have some of their stuff and it is well made. However, here is a company that did not invest in product development and has not ponied up for the royalties for what others developed. They are passing off old tech 2-strokes set too lean, with limiter caps and a cat as a band-aide - on a fuel system that is inherently unable to compensate for variations in temperature, atmospheric changes, variations in fuel characteristics or even load. One of two things will happen with these saws:
> 
> 1. Someone will "fix" them, which will defeat the emissions control and turn them back into polluters again
> 
> 2. More likely they will be run as-is, with strong odds they will burn themselves up, wasting the hard earned money of the people who buy them due to no fault of theirs.
> 
> Echo knows this. I've spent too much money on various similarly poorly engineered products - mowers and generators with non-adjustable carbs that did not work until I redesigned them, etc. I regard this as an unethical business practice on Echo's part. The technology is developed and even the cheapest plastic Poulan has it - there is no excuse for Echo to pawn off obsolete junk at this price point. Maybe they could try packing the adjuster screws with epoxy next.
> 
> My job title at work is Principal Hardware Engineer. Part of my responsibility is making sure bad ideas and poorly executed junk doesn't get out - I have no patience for such stuff.
> 
> /Rant



I still really like the 600p...
And stuff... 
I like it better than the 361 Stihl...


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## mountainlake

These 30 t0 90cc saws might put out pollution BUT not much volume. how are you going to turn off forest fires and volcanos. Steve


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## 7sleeper

zogger said:


> Nope, we shouldnt, but that is what the dealer prep is now for most all new saws. Disappears into mysterious backroom wink wink nudge nudge...secret alleged dealer only carb tool action....saw comes out with realistic carb settings instead of the fed mandated guaranteed to fry it at some point setting.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the left and right coasts, ship after ship comes in after running bunker fuel across oceans, each ship making more air nasties than every saw ever built...



Actually these ships run on a two stroke engine! They use the worse of worse of sludge leftover from the oil refinery.

7


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## zogger

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Rant follows:
> 
> Well, I know about bunker fuel and what comes out of coal fired power plants, and the various inequities of the emissions rules. Nonetheless, 2-stroke *** have been some seriously high output polluters in aggregate based on the fundamental defects of their engine design and the crappy fuel systems that are used. Both of these things can be corrected by better design, and have been - strato address the former.
> 
> I'm predisposed to like Echo stuff, as I have some of their stuff and it is well made. However, here is a company that did not invest in product development and has not ponied up for the royalties for what others developed. They are passing off old tech 2-strokes set too lean, with limiter caps and a cat as a band-aide - on a fuel system that is inherently unable to compensate for variations in temperature, atmospheric changes, variations in fuel characteristics or even load. One of two things will happen with these saws:
> 
> 1. Someone will "fix" them, which will defeat the emissions control and turn them back into polluters again
> 
> 2. More likely they will be run as-is, with strong odds they will burn themselves up, wasting the hard earned money of the people who buy them due to no fault of theirs.
> 
> Echo knows this. I've spent too much money on various similarly poorly engineered products - mowers and generators with non-adjustable carbs that did not work until I redesigned them, etc. I regard this as an unethical business practice on Echo's part. The technology is developed and even the cheapest plastic Poulan has it - there is no excuse for Echo to pawn off obsolete junk at this price point. Maybe they could try packing the adjuster screws with epoxy next.
> 
> My job title at work is Principal Hardware Engineer. Part of my responsibility is making sure bad ideas and poorly executed junk doesn't get out - I have no patience for such stuff.
> 
> /Rant



I understand what you are saying, and I have a similar rant..the patent system is freeking broken. Software patents (what total complete nonsense), business methods patents(beyond a joke), allowing miniscule minor changes to be patented (stuff that falls into the obvious category), etc. Its crap. Also, emission credits, the big guys can ship saws that pollute more, some of them, because they accumulate enough emissions brownie points with other devices. Thats political junk science and cronyism and so on. 

The way it is going, we will wind up with just two small engine two stroke *** companies, and cartel pricing (I think cartel type pricing is already there). I think the second and third tier companies are doing the best they can given the cards they are dealt.


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## Chris-PA

zogger said:


> I understand what you are saying, and I have a similar rant..the patent system is freeking broken. Software patents (what total complete nonsense), business methods patents(beyond a joke), allowing miniscule minor changes to be patented (stuff that falls into the obvious category), etc. Its crap. Also, emission credits, the big guys can ship saws that pollute more, some of them, because they accumulate enough emissions brownie points with other devices. Thats political junk science and cronyism and so on.
> 
> The way it is going, we will wind up with just two small engine two stroke *** companies, and cartel pricing (I think cartel type pricing is already there). I think the second and third tier companies are doing the best they can given the cards they are dealt.


Another way to look at it is simply that the market for chainsaws was massively overinflated by the availability of easy credit. That credit has gone away, permanently, and so a lot of that now excess capacity will go away too. Like a lot of the consequences of debt, this has not been dealt with yet. But it will be, and the loss of the weaker companies will be some of those consequences. *** was just a bubble too - POP!


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## echoshawn

zogger said:


> I understand what you are saying, and I have a similar rant..the patent system is freeking broken. Software patents (what total complete nonsense), business methods patents(beyond a joke), allowing miniscule minor changes to be patented (stuff that falls into the obvious category), etc. Its crap. Also, emission credits, the big guys can ship saws that pollute more, some of them, because they accumulate enough emissions brownie points with other devices. Thats political junk science and cronyism and so on.
> 
> The way it is going, we will wind up with just two small engine two stroke *** companies, and cartel pricing (I think cartel type pricing is already there). I think the second and third tier companies are doing the best they can given the cards they are dealt.



The mention of emissions credits reminded me of what my dealer told me. To start, they're a former Husqvarna dealership, and he's an old school husky and stihl guy. They still sell Jonsreds as well.

He that Echo, especially during the grey cased equipment days, did really detune the saws to save credits for their other *** (trimmers, blowers, etc). 

He said that they have now refocused their efforts on saws, and I think the 600P shows they're actually becoming more serious about saws again.

Was also told they're designing a new, big displacement saw to replace the cs-8000... He said 90-100cc range. 

I know it's heresay, but they've always shot me straight over the years. Even before they became the echo dealer, they were my shop of choice.


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## Hedgerow

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Another way to look at it is simply that the market for chainsaws was massively overinflated by the availability of easy credit. That credit has gone away, permanently, and so a lot of that now excess capacity will go away too. Like a lot of the consequences of debt, this has not been dealt with yet. But it will be, and the loss of the weaker companies will be some of those consequences. *** was just a bubble too - POP!



Bubbles are ok... They just happen, and always will... If a business feels they can venture into a market and make a buck, I say go for it... It's their money... They may succeed, they may fail... 
I like having choices as a consumer...
I've never bought a saw on credit though...
:msp_sneaky:


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## cjtreeclimber

Echo Chainsaw Fix
What are cat muffs?
What’s top and bottom end?
What color on my plugs am I looking to judge 
If tis running lean or rich?
All my saws are Echos. Only adjusted the cs 400 so far.
I guess I have to do them all asap before they burn up? :confused2:


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## zogger

cjtreeclimber said:


> Echo Chainsaw Fix
> What are cat muffs?
> What’s top and bottom end?
> What color on my plugs am I looking to judge
> If tis running lean or rich?
> All my saws are Echos. Only adjusted the cs 400 so far.
> I guess I have to do them all asap before they burn up? :confused2:



All that info is here and there in a thousand threads. Bottom line is, H screw in particlar should be at least to full rich up against the stops, on a lot of saws anyway. I know my huskies and one running echo are all past where the limiters would allow richening. If you want to go beyond the stops, have to remove limiters if so equipped. Plugs should be light tan, closer to whitish is too lean, darker than light tan, judgement call on too rich. You can google up reading spark plugs to get some color pictures.


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## Hedgerow

zogger said:


> All that info is here and there in a thousand threads. Bottom line is, H screw in particlar should be at least to full rich up against the stops, on a lot of saws anyway. I know my huskies and one running echo are all past where the limiters would allow richening. If you want to go beyond the stops, have to remove limiters if so equipped. Plugs should be light tan, closer to whitish is too lean, darker than light tan, judgement call on too rich. You can google up reading spark plugs to get some color pictures.



I like my spark plugs sorta black and drippy, with carbon buildup all over em'...
:after_boom:


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## zogger

echoshawn said:


> The mention of emissions credits reminded me of what my dealer told me. To start, they're a former Husqvarna dealership, and he's an old school husky and stihl guy. They still sell Jonsreds as well.
> 
> He that Echo, especially during the grey cased equipment days, did really detune the saws to save credits for their other *** (trimmers, blowers, etc).
> 
> He said that they have now refocused their efforts on saws, and I think the 600P shows they're actually becoming more serious about saws again.
> 
> Was also told they're designing a new, big displacement saw to replace the cs-8000... He said 90-100cc range.
> 
> I know it's heresay, but they've always shot me straight over the years. Even before they became the echo dealer, they were my shop of choice.



A bigger echo, and not the antique one they sell overseas? Im in, will start saving my nickles today...I like my 8000 a lot, a bigger more modern one would be great!


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## rmh3481

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Rant follows:
> 
> Well, I know about bunker fuel and what comes out of coal fired power plants, and the various inequities of the emissions rules. Nonetheless, 2-stroke *** have been some seriously high output polluters in aggregate based on the fundamental defects of their engine design and the crappy fuel systems that are used. Both of these things can be corrected by better design, and have been - strato address the former.
> 
> I'm predisposed to like Echo stuff, as I have some of their stuff and it is well made. However, here is a company that did not invest in product development and has not ponied up for the royalties for what others developed. They are passing off old tech 2-strokes set too lean, with limiter caps and a cat as a band-aide - on a fuel system that is inherently unable to compensate for variations in temperature, atmospheric changes, variations in fuel characteristics or even load. One of two things will happen with these saws:
> 
> 1. Someone will "fix" them, which will defeat the emissions control and turn them back into polluters again
> 
> 2. More likely they will be run as-is, with strong odds they will burn themselves up, wasting the hard earned money of the people who buy them due to no fault of theirs.
> 
> Echo knows this. I've spent too much money on various similarly poorly engineered products - mowers and generators with non-adjustable carbs that did not work until I redesigned them, etc. I regard this as an unethical business practice on Echo's part. The technology is developed and even the cheapest plastic Poulan has it - there is no excuse for Echo to pawn off obsolete junk at this price point. Maybe they could try packing the adjuster screws with epoxy next.
> 
> My job title at work is Principal Hardware Engineer. Part of my responsibility is making sure bad ideas and poorly executed junk doesn't get out - I have no patience for such stuff.
> 
> /Rant




Echo was the first manufacturer to build a several million $ emission lab in Illinois.


----------



## zogger

Hedgerow said:


> I like my spark plugs sorta black and drippy, with carbon buildup all over em'...
> :after_boom:



thats just because you love running seafoam in everything once you have those carboned out devices..hey, every boy needs a fetish!


----------



## Miles86

cjtreeclimber said:


> Echo Chainsaw Fix
> What are cat muffs?
> What’s top and bottom end?
> What color on my plugs am I looking to judge
> If tis running lean or rich?
> All my saws are Echos. Only adjusted the cs 400 so far.
> I guess I have to do them all asap before they burn up? :confused2:



Hey;

If you don't have this tool, get one: Dremel variable speed, with the metal cutting discs.
Read threads on "omitting" the cat converter  (hint: that's why the dremel is needed.)

Everyone on earth should be given a dremel tool when they are born.


----------



## Hedgerow

zogger said:


> thats just because you love running seafoam in everything once you have those carboned out devices..hey, every boy needs a fetish!



You busy about October this year??? You need to come visit Arkansas...

And I like a little seafoam on ice once in a while...


----------



## old 040

Hedgerow said:


> I still really like the 600p...
> And stuff...
> I like it better than the 361 Stihl...



yeah, i'll hang on to my 600p as well, not sure how one could burn up a non strat saw before a strat saw, more air is pumped in to the strat, which means you better be on top of your carb adjustments on these as well.......................


----------



## Chris-PA

rmh3481 said:


> Echo was the first manufacturer to build a several million $ emission lab in Illinois.


What are they doing with it?


----------



## Hedgerow

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> What are they doing with it?



Making emissions... :bad_smelly:

And figuring out how to outsmart the buffoons at the EPA...

And drinking starbucks... :monkey:

Cause that's just good coffee... 
I think they put meth in it or something...:msp_confused:


----------



## old 040

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Rant follows:
> 
> Well, I know about bunker fuel and what comes out of coal fired power plants, and the various inequities of the emissions rules. Nonetheless, 2-stroke *** have been some seriously high output polluters in aggregate based on the fundamental defects of their engine design and the crappy fuel systems that are used. Both of these things can be corrected by better design, and have been - strato address the former.
> 
> I'm predisposed to like Echo stuff, as I have some of their stuff and it is well made. However, here is a company that did not invest in product development and has not ponied up for the royalties for what others developed. They are passing off old tech 2-strokes set too lean, with limiter caps and a cat as a band-aide - on a fuel system that is inherently unable to compensate for variations in temperature, atmospheric changes, variations in fuel characteristics or even load. One of two things will happen with these saws:
> 
> 1. Someone will "fix" them, which will defeat the emissions control and turn them back into polluters again
> 
> 2. More likely they will be run as-is, with strong odds they will burn themselves up, wasting the hard earned money of the people who buy them due to no fault of theirs.
> 
> Echo knows this. I've spent too much money on various similarly poorly engineered products - mowers and generators with non-adjustable carbs that did not work until I redesigned them, etc. I regard this as an unethical business practice on Echo's part. The technology is developed and even the cheapest plastic Poulan has it - there is no excuse for Echo to pawn off obsolete junk at this price point. Maybe they could try packing the adjuster screws with epoxy next.
> 
> My job title at work is Principal Hardware Engineer. Part of my responsibility is making sure bad ideas and poorly executed junk doesn't get out - I have no patience for such stuff.
> 
> /Rant


not to sound rude, but after all this rant, i'm wondering how you feel about the saws you have listed in your sig?..............:msp_confused:


----------



## cjtreeclimber

Miles86 said:


> Hey;
> 
> If you don't have this tool, get one: Dremel variable speed, with the metal cutting discs.
> Read threads on "omitting" the cat converter  (hint: that's why the dremel is needed.)
> 
> Everyone on earth should be given a dremel tool when they are born.



Yeah I've had mine for about a year now. use it to sharpen every damn thing . Pick axe , lawn mower blades, chainsaw blades, brush cutter blades . . Got a nice one too :biggrin:


----------



## cjtreeclimber

I can't find that threaed "omitting the cat converter". Still looking. When I do my other saws I need to do it right but still researching


----------



## Chris-PA

old 040 said:


> not to sound rude, but after all this rant, i'm wondering how you feel about the saws you have listed in your sig?..............:msp_confused:


One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.


----------



## mountainlake

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.



If I was that worried about emissions I'd get a hand saw and a bicycle. Just what our liberal geen people want. Steve


----------



## zogger

Hedgerow said:


> You busy about October this year??? You need to come visit Arkansas...
> 
> And I like a little seafoam on ice once in a while...



Only been out there once, up in the ozarks, real pretty there.


----------



## old 040

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.



have you run a 600p?............if not, you should, i think you'd change your point of view quickly......................


----------



## echoshawn

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.



I'll gladly run my 600P with its "obsolete" technology.
Oh, and any good reed-valved saws too..
Don't need 14k on the tach to work good.


----------



## Chris-PA

old 040 said:


> have you run a 600p?............if not, you should, i think you'd change your point of view quickly......................


Not remotely interested now that I know what it is. There are plenty of good saws on the market, if I was in the market I wouldn't buy that. I like clean air.


----------



## Hedgerow

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Not remotely interested now that I know what it is. There are plenty of good saws on the market, if I was in the market I wouldn't buy that. I like clean air.



Well??? I guess you can not run one if you want... 
But they're a really nice saw...
:monkey:
Just sayin...


----------



## Eccentric

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Not remotely interested now that I know what it is. There are plenty of good saws on the market, if I was in the market I wouldn't buy that. I like clean air.



Keep the faith. The EPA and CARB depend on you for continued funding and expansion of power...


----------



## cjtreeclimber

Pulled the plug on my 8000. Was a tid on the bright side. I just took the caps out the carb and, adjusted the 'H' a tid and put two more wholes in the in the muffler under the vent and opened the vent up little more. no more screen. #### was nothin. 
I need this saw to run right for my climbing jobs. So the two saws that had white looking plugs were the cs 400 and the 8000

so thanks guys for teaching me to have Echos that live forever.


----------



## echoshawn

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.



if you're that overly worried about clean air, why'd you remove the cat on the new saw??
Could've just fattened up the mix enough to run right, and let the cat do its job.
And apparently the 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards, or it wouldn't be for sale.
So you still run saws that pre-date the emissions? 
Speaking out of both sides of your mouth IMO.


----------



## cjtreeclimber

Thats right! Save a gecko . Use an Echo!


----------



## Chris-PA

Eccentric said:


> Keep the faith. The EPA and CARB depend on you for continued funding and expansion of power...


The EPA is mostly just another corrupt and dysfunctional government agency in bed with the large corporations that does not ask for my permission to use my tax dollars. That does not mean everything they do is awful. And I don't live in California.



echoshawn said:


> if you're that overly worried about clean air, why'd you remove the cat on the new saw??
> Could've just fattened up the mix enough to run right, and let the cat do its job.
> And apparently the 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards, or it wouldn't be for sale.
> So you still run saws that pre-date the emissions?
> Speaking out of both sides of your mouth IMO.


I removed the cat because I understand how saw carbs work, and a cat is not a viable system on engine that pumps a significant portion of its fuel charge out the exhaust unburned and has a carb that runs so rich the engine misfires if you let off the load - oh, that's right, it doesn't the way they come and the engine will fail due to a too lean mixture under load. With the mixture fattened up the cat will get hot and still not be able to catalyze much of that unburned fuel. It's a dumb a$$ non-solution.

The 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards as long as you don't defeat the factory mixture limitations. Go ahead, run it that way, I dare you!

While I like playing with chainsaws, they are not just toys to me, they are tools that enable me to heat with wood instead of fossil fuels even though I have an regular job that takes my time. This reduces the fossil fuels I use, their cost to my family, and reduces the overall pollution and CO2 I put out (in spite of the saws), and thus my contribution to climate change. The vast majority of that wood gets cut with my 40cc strato saw, with the larger saws saved for when they are required, and the 42cc Poulans kept around because they are by far the most common saw out there and I expect major economic problems near term - I can always keep one of those running. The others are for fun and backups. 

It's too bad my older non strato saws are such polluting pigs, but that is what the industry made then, and all it would be making now if not forced to change - because a corporation will always provide the absolute minimum it has to to get your money. 

Oh, and if you guys think I'm ashamed of being environmentally concerned, you are mistaken.


----------



## Majorpayne

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> The EPA is mostly just another corrupt and dysfunctional government agency in bed with the large corporations that does not ask for my permission to use my tax dollars. That does not mean everything they do is awful. And I don't live in California.
> 
> I removed the cat because I understand how saw carbs work, and a cat is not a viable system on engine that pumps a significant portion of its fuel charge out the exhaust unburned and has a carb that runs so rich the engine misfires if you let off the load - oh, that's right, it doesn't the way they come and the engine will fail due to a too lean mixture under load. With the mixture fattened up the cat will get hot and still not be able to catalyze much of that unburned fuel. It's a dumb a$$ non-solution.
> 
> The 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards as long as you don't defeat the factory mixture limitations. Go ahead, run it that way, I dare you!
> 
> While I like playing with chainsaws, they are not just toys to me, they are tools that enable me to heat with wood instead of fossil fuels even though I have an regular job that takes my time. This reduces the fossil fuels I use, their cost to my family, and reduces the overall pollution and CO2 I put out (in spite of the saws), and thus my contribution to climate change. The vast majority of that wood gets cut with my 40cc strato saw, with the larger saws saved for when they are required, and the 42cc Poulans kept around because they are by far the most common saw out there and I expect major economic problems near term - I can always keep one of those running. The others are for fun and backups.
> 
> It's too bad my older non strato saws are such polluting pigs, but that is what the industry made then, and all it would be making now if not forced to change - because a corporation will always provide the absolute minimum it has to to get your money.
> 
> Oh, and if you guys think I'm ashamed of being environmentally concerned, you are mistaken.


I bet you are against guns and sharp objects too.


----------



## brokenbudget

lots of saws out there with the cat still in the muffler tuned properly running just fine. and will for a very long time.
what i don't get is how do people think retuning the carb is 'fixing' the saw. do they think tuning a saw is a new thing? and i don't think this is a sole problem of echo. weather it's a strato or not. you run a strato lean and it will fail just as fast as a non-strat. the epa don't care how the saw runs, they only care what is coming out of the muffler.
you think the big companies would be building the statos if there wasn't any epa?
why do some startos run well? design credits. make an engine seem to run cleaner due to a different design and they let you get a little more agressive with the porting.


----------



## Chris-PA

Majorpayne said:


> I bet you are against guns and sharp objects too.


The real world is more complicated than your juvenile stereotypes would have you believe. I'm a pretty decent shot and I can put an edge on a blade better than most you'll meet. I'm a country boy and I love the natural world around me. Not sure where people got the idea that was a wussy thing - must be from watching too much TV and advertising from city folks.



brokenbudget said:


> lots of saws out there with the cat still in the muffler tuned properly running just fine. and will for a very long time.
> what i don't get is how do people think retuning the carb is 'fixing' the saw. do they think tuning a saw is a new thing? and i don't think this is a sole problem of echo. weather it's a strato or not. you run a strato lean and it will fail just as fast as a non-strat. the epa don't care how the saw runs, they only care what is coming out of the muffler.
> you think the big companies would be building the statos if there wasn't any epa?
> why do some startos run well? design credits. make an engine seem to run cleaner due to a different design and they let you get a little more agressive with the porting.


A strato engine does not need to be tuned as lean to meet the emissions rules. And no, there would be no strato engines without regulations - it was very expensive to develop and they would have rather spent the money on bonuses for executives. Stratos actually put less unburned fuel out the exhaust, it's a real advantage, not a fantasy.


----------



## echoshawn

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> The 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards as long as you don't defeat the factory mixture limitations. Go ahead, run it that way, I dare you!



I do run mine with the limiters in place. I know how to read a plug, and what a lean saw sounds like. I also know that if it was showing signs of lean running, I'd take it back to my servicing dealer to be properly adjusted, under warranty... No issues to date.



WoodHeatWarrior said:


> I have an regular job that takes my time. This reduces the fossil fuels I use, their cost to my family, and reduces the overall pollution and CO2 I put out (in spite of the saws), and thus my contribution to climate change.



I also work full time and then some, and not in my industry of choice. 
Ever consider how much fuel you use collecting firewood? Hauling, cutting, and splitting it?
How much CO2 does your woodburner of choice emit? 




WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Oh, and if you guys think I'm ashamed of being environmentally concerned, you are mistaken.



You know what would have an even bigger impact? Don't buy the newest, latest, greatest thing. Use what you currently own, keep it in good repair, and rebuild if needed. Don't replace. Manufacturing a new, eco-friendly product creates far more emissions than using the original product. If I were to replace my old truck, with a brand new, cleaner burning, blah blah blah modern truck, the new one would be worn out before it'd even come close to making up the difference. It's far more eco-friendly to run what you have for as long as you can, then rebuild and run some more..


----------



## Hedgerow

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> The real world is more complicated than your juvenile stereotypes would have you believe. I'm a pretty decent shot and I can put an edge on a blade better than most you'll meet. I'm a country boy and I love the natural world around me. Not sure where people got the idea that was a wussy thing - must be from watching too much TV and advertising from city folks.
> 
> A strato engine does not need to be tuned as lean to meet the emissions rules. And no, there would be no strato engines without regulations - it was very expensive to develop and they would have rather spent the money on bonuses for executives. Stratos actually put less unburned fuel out the exhaust, it's a real advantage, not a fantasy.



Yes... A strato saw will wring more run time out of a gallon of fuel than a normally charged 2 stroke of similar size... 
But I'll not debate the Eco junk with you.. You're a smart fella, and will figure this stuff out for yourself... 
I too, believe in good stewardship.... The real debate lies in just exactly how to achieve it...
And the 600p is still a great saw, and sips fuel even when tuned properly... It's a 60 cc saw and uses less fuel than my 46 cc 028 Stihl... 
That tells me Echo did their homework with the ports... 
New tech or not....
Effective...


----------



## brokenbudget

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> A strato engine does not need to be tuned as lean to meet the emissions rules. And no, there would be no strato engines without regulations - it was very expensive to develop and they would have rather spent the money on bonuses for executives. Stratos actually put less unburned fuel out the exhaust, it's a real advantage, not a fantasy.



a non strato does not have to run any leaner than a strato to pass any regs. where did you hear this? the majority of chainsaws shipped out from what ever compnay you pick are set pretty darn close to where they need to be to run long happy lives. maybe a small amount of tuning needed at the dealer. some are actualy a little rich, and this is becoming more common than the lean saws. you just don't hear it here because people don't complain about their saws unless they're lean and not running properly.


you're also missing the point of the limiters on the carb. they are not there to dictate that this is where the jets must be set to pass the epa testing. they are only there to stop harry homeowner from richening that saw up to the point of where it's slathering rich and actualy puking out the baddies into the air. you can richen up one of these alot before you get there.


----------



## Chris-PA

echoshawn said:


> I do run mine with the limiters in place. I know how to read a plug, and what a lean saw sounds like. I also know that if it was showing signs of lean running, I'd take it back to my servicing dealer to be properly adjusted, under warranty... No issues to date.
> 
> 
> 
> I also work full time and then some, and not in my industry of choice.
> Ever consider how much fuel you use collecting firewood? Hauling, cutting, and splitting it?
> How much CO2 does your woodburner of choice emit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know what would have an even bigger impact? Don't buy the newest, latest, greatest thing. Use what you currently own, keep it in good repair, and rebuild if needed. Don't replace. Manufacturing a new, eco-friendly product creates far more emissions than using the original product. If I were to replace my old truck, with a brand new, cleaner burning, blah blah blah modern truck, the new one would be worn out before it'd even come close to making up the difference. It's far more eco-friendly to run what you have for as long as you can, then rebuild and run some more..


OK, my last post in this thread. Compared to the amount of heating oil I used to use the paltry few gallons of gasoline I use cutting and hauling my firewood is of little consequence. I split mostly by hand except for crotches and whatnot. The CO2 my woodburner puts out was taken from the atmosphere in the last couple of decades, which is a far different situation than releasing carbon that has been stored for millions of years.

If you notice all my saws (except the Husky my wife bought me) are used junk that would likely have ended up in a landfill. What you propose is exactly what I'm doing, and even my strato saw is a used old saw I brought back to life. I'm well aware of the energy used in manufacturing, which is why I will spend the time to fix most anything. My car is 14 years old and was the cheapest model of car sold at the time. Works fantastic, handles well and gets great mileage. 

So if Echo has managed to make a saw with no changes to the fundamental design but that still meets the emission regs and uses less fuel, and then good for them. Call me very skeptical.



brokenbudget said:


> a non strato does not have to run any leaner than a strato to pass any regs. where did you hear this? the majority of chainsaws shipped out from what ever compnay you pick are set pretty darn close to where they need to be to run long happy lives. maybe a small amount of tuning needed at the dealer. some are actualy a little rich, and this is becoming more common than the lean saws. you just don't hear it here because people don't complain about their saws unless they're lean and not running properly.


A non-strato pumps (much more) unburned fuel out the exhaust, in addition to whatever the strato pumps out, all other things being equal (displacement, etc.).


----------



## Mastermind

All chainsaws should be disposed of.........loud and dangerous......not to mention nasty.


----------



## brokenbudget

Mastermind said:


> All chainsaws should be disposed of.........loud and dangerous......not to mention nasty.



and they're racist.


----------



## hoeyrd2110

ehh the echo hate again...really? they are great saws specifically the 600P. WHW i think oregon makes a saw that charges in a wall outlet which will lower your carbon footprint:hmm3grin2orange:

i love the 600P but i also love my old reed valve 660evl...stump puller and a gas guzzler but man does she run smooth and the sound is just right:msp_razz: pulls a 24" all day long with authority.


----------



## old 040

Mastermind said:


> All chainsaws should be disposed of.........loud and dangerous......not to mention nasty.



hey...............aren't you one of the guys that the epa loves to hate?....................:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## mountainlake

I also work full time and then some, and not in my industry of choice. 
Ever consider how much fuel you use collecting firewood? Hauling, cutting, and splitting it?
How much CO2 does your woodburner of choice emit? 

Just looked it up, wood heat puts out tons more pollution than gas heat. WHW you better quit burning wood, sell your saws, drive a bike, grow a garden (we can't have farmers polluting) etc. For those of us that know better wood rotting out in the woods puts out a lot of pollution also. Steve


----------



## old 040

mountainlake said:


> I also work full time and then some, and not in my industry of choice.
> Ever consider how much fuel you use collecting firewood? Hauling, cutting, and splitting it?
> How much CO2 does your woodburner of choice emit?
> 
> Just looked it up, wood heat puts out tons more pollution than gas heat. WHW you better quit burning wood, sell your saws, drive a bike, grow a garden (we can't have farmers polluting) etc. For those of us that know better wood rotting out in the woods puts out a lot of pollution also. Steve



i'm pretty sure he's done....................:msp_unsure:


----------



## Mastermind

old 040 said:


> hey...............aren't you one of the guys that the epa loves to hate?....................:hmm3grin2orange:



Who me? What did I do? :msp_ohmy:

I'm all for helping rid the world of unburned hydrocarbons. That's why I'm a fan of big compression.......it helps create an engine that is higher in volumetric efficiency thereby reducing emissions. :cool2:


----------



## Majorpayne

Mastermind said:


> Who me? What did I do? :msp_ohmy:
> 
> I'm all for helping rid the world of unburned hydrocarbons. That's why I'm a fan of big compression.......it helps create an engine that is higher in volumetric efficiency thereby reducing emissions. :cool2:



And noise. Noise cleans the air.


----------



## Mastermind

Majorpayne said:


> And noise. Noise cleans the air.



Right on.


----------



## ncfarmboy

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Not remotely interested now that I know what it is. There are plenty of good saws on the market, if I was in the market I wouldn't buy that. I like clean air.



I heard this on the RFD channel Govt specs claim farmers are blamed for 10% of polution. You got to be kidding. *I like clean air too *I live in the woods. I thought clean air was what trees are supposed to do. I like my 2 CS600P 2012 a LOT after alittle surgery on the muff's and a retune. Much better choice than a Stihl MS391 or a Husky 460 and a whole lot cheaper too. Best bang for the buck in 60cc's. Looking for a CS400,500,550 to add to my Echo line.
Shep


----------



## cmarti

Mastermind said:


> Who me? What did I do? :msp_ohmy:
> 
> . :cool2:



Where do we start:msp_sneaky:.........


Wood Heat is a good guy and loves to tinker with saws.........I think his user name gives him a very deep hole to dig out of if he wants to discuss emissions:dunno: He may just be dissapointed Echo has not gone cutting edge.

I try to be a good steward on our property (more than just picking up and recycling all our beer cans), but I can't help but enjoy the Brrrraaap of a 2 cycle. They will pry my old Poulan's out of my cold dead hands.......:redfaceI cant believe I went there)


----------



## Doug Fir

*Wood heat is a relatively clean option!*



mountainlake said:


> ...
> Ever consider how much fuel you use collecting firewood? Hauling, cutting, and splitting it?
> How much CO2 does your woodburner of choice emit?
> 
> Just looked it up, wood heat puts out tons more pollution than gas heat. WHW you better quit burning wood, sell your saws, drive a bike, grow a garden (we can't have farmers polluting) etc. For those of us that know better wood rotting out in the woods puts out a lot of pollution also. Steve



To answer your first question, _on average_ 1 BTU of fossil fuels is used to produce 27.6 BTUs of heat from firewood. This is an excellent "Energy Return on Investment" (EROI). I have done my own calculations and I do quite a bit better than this, but I am not "average", as most of my my wood is harvested within a couple of miles of my home and I split by hand. 

Regarding emissions, your statement is too vague to be evaluated, but one study found that wood heat is one of the best options in terms of overall emissions. Here are some results from that study, which looked at three categories of emissions.

(1) CO2 equivalents: Wood is the CLEANEST option

Wood heat produces 8.56 tons of CO2 per quad of heat delivered, which is lower than every other heat source, including natural gas (17.5 tons), fuel oil (22.1), kerosene (31.7), LPG (19.6), coal (29.4) and electricity (57.4 for the national average, although this varies regionally). Every scientist who works in this area realizes that "wood rotting out in the woods puts out a lot of pollution". The CO2 from rotting wood is identical to the CO2 from burning wood; it is part of the natural carbon cycle. The carbon cycle of forests is taken into account when computing net CO2 emissions, as is the fuel used to gather and process wood. Scientists who calculate emissions are not as dumb as you seem to think. 

(2) Acid equivalents: Wood is the CLEANEST option

Wood heat produces 1.4 billion "acid equivalents" per quad of heat delivered, which is lower than every other heat source, including natural gas (2.4), fuel oil (6.8), kerosene (3.5), LPG (1.6), coal (20.8) and electricity (15.2, for the national average).

(3) Fine particulate emissions: Wood burned in CERTIFIED stoves is neither the cleanest nor the dirtiest option; choice of stove is critical

A stove that just meets the EPA certification standard produces 430 thousand tons of fine particulates per quad of heat delivered, which is lower than coal (729) and electricity (520, for the national average). The best modern stoves, such as the Lopi Cape Cod hybrid, have particulate emissions that are a fraction of the EPA standard. The particulate emissions of these stoves are lower than fuel oil (188) and kerosene (74), but are higher than natural gas (28). In terms of particulates, natural gas is the cleanest fuel, but in terms of CO2 and acid equivalents, wood heat is the winner (among the options listed).

The following link will take you to the study that is the source for most of the above figures. As I stated, the particulate data in this study do NOT reflect the newest stoves, whose emissions are dramatically reduced. Nonetheless, the study concludes that wood is one of the cleanest options:

http://basineducation.uwex.edu/centralwis/pdfs/hpawma.pdf

Wood heat is much cleaner than most people imagine, particularly if you use a modern, efficient stove.

Doug


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## mountainlake

The biggest thing is burning and rotting wood produce the same co2, may as well get some heat out of it. Steve


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## zogger

mountainlake said:


> The biggest thing is burning and rotting wood produce the same co2, may as well get some heat out of it. Steve



I am as green and conservation minded as you can get and to me, firewood is also as green as it gets. Storable solar power! Save up the heat from the summer, release it in the winter when you need it, whats not to like? It also helps with energy independence and doesnt require a lot of those dubious bank debt note certificates if you can scrounge it...and I have yet to be in any areas where I couldnt go scrounge wood somehow.


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## cmarti

Doug Fir said:


> To answer your first question, Wood heat is much cleaner than most people imagine, particularly if you use a modern, efficient stove.
> 
> Doug



You have presented a well thought, well written and logical argument. I am not sure that is allowed on this site. I will debate that you have presented wood burning heat in it's most positive light. The use of older stoves, campfires, fireplaces and inadequate ventilation dampen the outlook on both indoor and outdoor air quality. There is debate on on what's a better big picture solution. My gut tells me my fireplace put's out more crap than my natural gas furnace....but what's the cost/pollution of getting the coal, oil and gas to a home? I never thought of that.

I am guilty of fireplaces in my home and woodburner in an out building, and campfires outdoors. I am not advocating no burn, I fear the eco police will take it away. It's just there are alot of people screaming over woodburning, I found your points interesting. 

Air pollutants from fireplaces and wood-burning stoves raise health concerns
hhttp://www.epa.gov/oaqps001/community/guide/wood_stoves_oo_sheet.pdf
ttp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-11-13-woodburning-pollution_x.htm


Regardless of all this, I think the original point of disliking a saw because it put's out more emissions than a strato saw is what people found
somewhat overboard. We got way off track of the merits of a 590 Timberwolf.


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## bthompson224

If yer cuttin' faster due to mods, wouldn't you run the saw less and may actually produce less emissions?


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## echoshawn

I apologize if I partially derailed the thread.


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## REJ2

Four years ago you couldnt get an Echo thread to have 7 posts let alone 7 pages, 65 pages or so in the case of the 610 twin. I like my Echo, well made, starts everytime. Ive been eyeing them 600P's lately.


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## mountainlake

In the last 10 years it went from 95% bashers to 95% thaqt like Echo saws. Steve


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## Mastermind

mountainlake said:


> In the last 10 years it went from 95% bashers to 95% thaqt like Echo saws. Steve



[video=youtube;EHq8p-I2Fuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq8p-I2Fuw[/video]


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## cjtreeclimber

REJ2 said:


> Four years ago you couldnt get an Echo thread to have 7 posts let alone 7 pages, 65 pages or so in the case of the 610 twin. I like my Echo, well made, starts everytime. Ive been eyeing them 600P's lately.



Your telling me . . .I have the money . . just saw it the other morning and held one in my arms . . . ough .. almost came in my pants. .. trying to wait it out for the right timing.


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## Ronaldo

Was just in the local Echo dealer today and looked over(held) a 600p. Looked like a keeper to me.
The regional Echo distributor was also there and got to visit with him. He mentioned something about a big saw coming to replace the CS-8000 as was mentioned earlier. My brother and I invited him to the Iowa Spring GTG and it sounds like he is going to be able to come. Said that sounded like a good time and would bring along the demo saws for people to try. That is certainly more interest and involvement than we have been able to get out of our local Dolmar, Husqvarna, Or Stihl dealers. I hope he makes it and he wasnt just giving us lip service!

Ron


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## Hedgerow

Mastermind said:


> [video=youtube;EHq8p-I2Fuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq8p-I2Fuw[/video]



I had a 440 roll through my garage on its way to a neighbor...
A re-tune and sharp chain, and that saw was just fine!!! 
Light, peppy, just very useable!!!
I almost thought about keeping it!!!
Am I sick???


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## hiluxxulih

Ronaldo said:


> Was just in the local Echo dealer today and looked over(held) a 600p. Looked like a keeper to me.
> The regional Echo distributor was also there and got to visit with him. *He mentioned something about a big saw coming to replace the CS-8000 as was mentioned earlier * My brother and I invited him to the Iowa Spring GTG and it sounds like he is going to be able to come. Said that sounded like a good time and would bring along the demo saws for people to try. That is certainly more interest and involvement than we have been able to get out of our local Dolmar, Husqvarna, Or Stihl dealers. I hope he makes it and he wasnt just giving us lip service!
> 
> Ron



What the h**l now I have to get a big brother for my Echo CS600-P , I will start saving right , now that I am firmly seated in the Echo bandwagon :msp_biggrin:


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## echoshawn

hiluxxulih said:


> What the h**l now I have to get a big brother for my Echo CS600-P , I will start saving right , now that I am firmly seated in the Echo bandwagon :msp_biggrin:



I'm just glad someone else put it out there too, so I'm not the only one posting about a rumored new Echo big bore.... better start saving my pennies now...


----------



## Philbert

_*Back to the original question . . . *_

I had the same question as the OP. Was going to start a thread when I saw this one. I also emailed ECHO this question:



> Have just seen the ads for your new saw. The specifications for the CS 590 Timber Wolf and CS 600P chainsaws look so similar on your website. Can you help to differentiate these saws for me? I assume that there must be something significant to justify a $100 difference in MSRP. Does one have a polymer case and 'clamshell' engine and the other an aluminum or magnesium case? Is there a reason why the 590 is offered only with an 18 or 20 inch bar and the similarly powered 600 is offered with much longer bars?



I received this answer:



> Thank you for your e-mail to ECHO Incorporated. The CS-590 can take the larger bar and chain combinations but it is not offered that way. Both the CS-600P and the CS-590 have an aluminum crankcase. The changes in the CS-590 are the plastic handle, bar does not offer the replaceable sprocket, and the drum clutch sprocket.



it's confusing when manufacturers create different names for the same product: I would have preferred 'CS 600' and 'CS 600 PRO', or 'CS 600 Timber Wolf Edition'. But is sounds like the 590 could be a good value for $100 less for the right users.

Philbert


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## old 040

Philbert said:


> _*Back to the original question . . . *_
> 
> I had the same question as the OP. Was going to start a thread when I saw this one. I also emailed ECHO this question:
> 
> 
> 
> I received this answer:
> 
> 
> 
> it's confusing when manufacturers create different names for the same product: I would have preferred 'CS 600' and 'CS 600 PRO', or 'CS 600 Timber Wolf Edition'. But is sounds like the 590 could be a good value for $100 less for the right users.
> 
> Philbert



i kinda feel the same way, the 600p is a great saw, then shoot us in the back and make the 590 at a much more reasonable price, and with little mods to the 590 you've got a 600p...................:msp_mellow:


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## zogger

old 040 said:


> i kinda feel the same way, the 600p is a great saw, then shoot us in the back and make the 590 at a much more reasonable price, and with little mods to the 590 you've got a 600p...................:msp_mellow:



Pretty reasonable on their part. 
They came up with a way to get you basically the same saw much cheaper. Mine are the original and have the plastic handles, yet I dont feel cheated with them going to aluminum on the later models, machinery evolves all the time.

I do wish they made around a 75cc on the same platform though...


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## echoshawn

old 040 said:


> i kinda feel the same way, the 600p is a great saw, then shoot us in the back and make the 590 at a much more reasonable price, and with little mods to the 590 you've got a 600p...................:msp_mellow:



When you add up the 'upgrades' (rim vs spur, metal handle, power match vs pro lite/pro-am bar, not sure which the timberwolf is), the extra $100ish makes sense.. 
If you priced these parts separately, I'd be willing to bet it'd add up.

I still would've bought the 600P IMO..


----------



## old 040

zogger said:


> Pretty reasonable on their part.
> They came up with a way to get you basically the same saw much cheaper. Mine are the original and have the plastic handles, yet I dont feel cheated with them going to aluminum on the later models, machinery evolves all the time.
> 
> I do wish they made around a 75cc on the same platform though...



exactly what i'm saying, i really don't mind a spur sprocket, laminated bar, or the composite handle, the saw still cuts just as good as 600p, but if i were to use it daily the upgrades would be needed, or nice to have, these are all simple upgrades that anyone can make, as far as power output, the saws feel exactly the same, i guess that's what i'm trying to say, in most cases, the lower priced saw will also have less power, and to get it up to the next level can be much more costly.................:msp_mellow:


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## Green Monster

*CS-590 vs. CS-600P*

The 2 saws have the exact same 59.8cc engine. The CS-590 sells for $110 less because:

1) The CS-590 comes equipped with a laminated bar instead of the higher end Pro-Match bar with a replaceable tip you get on the CS-600P.
2) The CS-590 comes with a spur sprocket instead of the rim sprocket you get on a CS-600P.
3) The CS-590 has a plastic handle where the CS-600P has an aluminum handle with a rubber overmold.
4) The CS-590 has a translucent gas tank so you can see your fuel.
5) The CS-600P uses the larger oversized bar nuts, where the CS-590 has standard sized bar nuts.

Bottom line, both saws are going to perform the same. However, if you cut a lot of wood, the CS-600P has the features you will appreciate. If you just want a big saw with good power, but you only cut 2 to 4 cords of firewood a year, or less, the CS-590 will do you just fine.

The saws ECHO is referring to when they say the CS-590 Timberwolf performs better than comparable models from Stihl and Husqvarna are the MS290 Farm Boss and the 455 Rancher. The CS-590 is about $20 to $30 more, but is a lot more saw! The CS-590 has more power than both the MS290 and 455, plus it has more features, and a much better warranty. It's well worth the extra $30 or so.


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## Green Monster

Philbert said:


> _*Back to the original question . . . *_
> 
> I had the same question as the OP. Was going to start a thread when I saw this one. I also emailed ECHO this question:
> 
> 
> 
> I received this answer:
> 
> 
> 
> it's confusing when manufacturers create different names for the same product: I would have preferred 'CS 600' and 'CS 600 PRO', or 'CS 600 Timber Wolf Edition'. But is sounds like the 590 could be a good value for $100 less for the right users.
> 
> Philbert


 All current model ECHO CS-600 chainsaws get the "P" suffix. In other words the model number is always CS-600P. The "P" simply means "Performance Cutting System". It is the higher end ECHO Pro-Match bar vs. a laminated bar.


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## john damps

i have been logging all my life,i used just about everything i just ordered a timberwolf 590, love my stihl 290 super,i hope the timberwolf has the same power,the echo cs 400 [i have 4] are just great running excellent quility,i own big husky older 61 tons of power, 268-372, stiihl o44mag i think husky quality is getting low,the older stihls 5 years and older have more power than new ones[probley emissions] but i must admit echo quility is top self,im not brand loyal,i buy what i need,ill keep you posted when i run the 590 timberwolf;


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## larry lee

I went in to my local dealer (carries ECHO and Stihl) a few days ago to look at the CS-590. He had just sold his last one earlier that day but will have more in about a week. But I did have a very interesting conversation with him and the service manager about the question of fuel and how ECHO saws are tuned by the dealer. It seems that ECHO specifies that the H & L needle valves are to be adjusted using a tach with the saw under no load using high grade fuel (preferably their PowerFuel, I suppose). It seems that fuel quality is becoming more and more of an issue, and I was told that ECHO recently sent a memo to their dealers and service stations that any saw that came in with fuel in it with octane rating below 89 or phase separation was not covered under warranty. The ethanol (and perhaps other additives) in standard automotive fuel is really affecting the stability of the 2-cycle oil added into the fuel. Even stabilizer doesn't help for long. Since a 2-cycle engine relies on that oil for all of its lubrication, it only takes a little gas (or worse yet, water) with no oil in it to ruin the engine. There are many reports of people who have bought good chainsaws, like the CS-400 and CS-590/600 that have burned up from lack of lubrication after only a few hours of use. They all claim to have used good 2-cycle oil with "new" gas from the local automotive service station. And, of course, they were all upset to find out that the warranty doesn't consider such damage to be a manufacturer's defect. Since I want my new saw to run for a long time, and always when I need it, I am willing to pay extra for quality fuel, although I too wish it were less expensive. And perhaps it will be as the demand grows and larger containers become more available.

There is some interesting information about this on the VP Racing Fuels website
http://www.vp-sef.com/index.php/products/pro-max
wherein they point out that the 2-cycle engine of a chainsaw like the CS-590/600 runs under conditions (HP/pound, RPM, cylinder temperatures) often more severe than the highest performance race car engines, especially since such 2-cycle engines are air-cooled. VP now has a premixed fuel especially formulated for high performance chainsaw engines called VP Pro Max with 97 octane, no ethanol, and Motul synthetic oil (710 2T?). I have a dealer not too far away and I will find out what it costs. The regular VP Small Engine Fuel with 94 octane, no ethanol, and Motul oil costs about $6.00/qt in the standard 8-pack. All of their fuels are also available in 1-gallon, 5-gallon, and 54-gallon containers for larger users.

Starting last year, I now use TruFuel 50:1 premix with 92 octane, no ethanol, and synthetic oil certified to JASO FD, etc., which I get for about $5.00/qt in standard 6-packs at Lowes. (Supposedly it is made by the same company that makes the Stihl MotoMix in the USA.) My smaller CS-330 tree saw starts and runs noticeably better on it. And, of course, in the tree is where I care the most that it starts easily all of the time.

I'll post what I find out about the VP Pro Max once I visit the dealer. I'll also post my test results with the CS-590 once I get it.

Happy cutting to all!


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## 7sleeper

@ larry lee

_VP Pro-Max is an ETHANOL-FREE fuel mixed with best-in-class synthetic oil at 50:1
Pro-Max is specifically designed for the unique demands of high-load, high rpm professional chainsaws operating in high temperature and other extreme conditions. Its 97 octane rating provides maximum detonation protection, especially when air cooling systems are restricted by wood chips, sawdust or sap-pitch, and during jobs requiring many starts and stops which can rapidly build heat within the engine.

Engineered and tested to significantly enhance the performance and durability of today’s “stratofied lean burn” professional two-cycle engines (chainsaws and cut-off saws).
_

Sorry but this is just marketing bull$h!t.

Since when is a stratofied engine a lean burner? Lean burn only happens when the carburator is not properly adjusted. Just that simple.

97 octane rating! I can get that at every gas station I want.
Detonation protection especially when air cooling systems are restricted...




This is getting better and better! 

No doubt these premix fuels have very good qualities. First and formost would be the "pure" synthetic fuel absent of the additives in todays gas station fuels. Thus resulting in a "cleaner" fuel with less burned off or not burned off byproducts. Further that they have a shelf life of 5 years in a unopened container. So yes they are definately very good. And I recomend them to every homeowner because "old mix" is probably the number one problem for homeowners saw that get run every 2-5 years after a storm. 

But if your "tree saw" has starting difficulties it has nothing to do with the fuel. More a carb issue.

7


----------



## mountainlake

larry lee said:


> I went in to my local dealer (carries ECHO and Stihl) a few days ago to look at the CS-590. He had just sold his last one earlier that day but will have more in about a week. But I did have a very interesting conversation with him and the service manager about the question of fuel and how ECHO saws are tuned by the dealer. It seems that ECHO specifies that the H & L needle valves are to be adjusted using a tach with the saw under no load using high grade fuel (preferably their PowerFuel, I suppose). It seems that fuel quality is becoming more and more of an issue, and I was told that ECHO recently sent a memo to their dealers and service stations that any saw that came in with fuel in it with octane rating below 89 or phase separation was not covered under warranty. The ethanol (and perhaps other additives) in standard automotive fuel is really affecting the stability of the 2-cycle oil added into the fuel. Even stabilizer doesn't help for long. Since a 2-cycle engine relies on that oil for all of its lubrication, it only takes a little gas (or worse yet, water) with no oil in it to ruin the engine. There are many reports of people who have bought good chainsaws, like the CS-400 and CS-590/600 that have burned up from lack of lubrication after only a few hours of use. They all claim to have used good 2-cycle oil with "new" gas from the local automotive service station. And, of course, they were all upset to find out that the warranty doesn't consider such damage to be a manufacturer's defect. Since I want my new saw to run for a long time, and always when I need it, I am willing to pay extra for quality fuel, although I too wish it were less expensive. And perhaps it will be as the demand grows and larger containers become more available.
> 
> There is some interesting information about this on the VP Racing Fuels website
> http://www.vp-sef.com/index.php/products/pro-max
> wherein they point out that the 2-cycle engine of a chainsaw like the CS-590/600 runs under conditions (HP/pound, RPM, cylinder temperatures) often more severe than the highest performance race car engines, especially since such 2-cycle engines are air-cooled. VP now has a premixed fuel especially formulated for high performance chainsaw engines called VP Pro Max with 97 octane, no ethanol, and Motul synthetic oil (710 2T?). I have a dealer not too far away and I will find out what it costs. The regular VP Small Engine Fuel with 94 octane, no ethanol, and Motul oil costs about $6.00/qt in the standard 8-pack. All of their fuels are also available in 1-gallon, 5-gallon, and 54-gallon containers for larger users.
> 
> Starting last year, I now use TruFuel 50:1 premix with 92 octane, no ethanol, and synthetic oil certified to JASO FD, etc., which I get for about $5.00/qt in standard 6-packs at Lowes. (Supposedly it is made by the same company that makes the Stihl MotoMix in the USA.) My smaller CS-330 tree saw starts and runs noticeably better on it. And, of course, in the tree is where I care the most that it starts easily all of the time.
> 
> I'll post what I find out about the VP Pro Max once I visit the dealer. I'll also post my test results with the CS-590 once I get it.
> 
> Happy cutting to all!



I've bought quite a few burnt up CS400 saws off Ebay, at least 95% were burnt up from lean tuning not bad gas. Those that were to lean most likely were HD saws or from a dealer that didn't do his job. There's way too many crooked dealers out there in every business that want to get paid from both the consumer and the warranty so they blame it on bad gas which works for them. Steve


----------



## woodchipper95

So will a dealer tune it for the customer with a special tool?
Or can it be done with the ear (by someone other than me bc I'm not to knowledgeable when it comes to tuning) and would hate to blow a saw because of improper tune.


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## jdhacker

http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachment/90d6a91c-df0b-410c-b029-52b0a7e4b831/CS-590 Timber Wolf.pdf

Looks like the echo is a good saw, but it's heaver, has the biggest engine with the same power as the stihl, and cost about the same.


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## larry lee

I do agree that having the carburetor set too lean only compounds any other causes of inadequate lubrication and we all seem to agree that most new chainsaws are set too lean, presumably because the manufacturer has to certify that the emissions requirements were met when the saw left the factory. What I find interesting are the following carburetor adjustment instructions from the ECHO CS-590 Chain Saw Manual. If I interpret the instructions correctly, they say "Every unit is run at the factory and the carburetor is set in compliance with Emission Regulations" and then in step 4 it says "Turn “H” speed needle counterclockwise (CCW) to stop" (i.e., to as rich as the stop will let you go. And, of course, we all know how to go further if need be.) So it appears that ECHO is saying that they also recommend operation with a richer mixture than the factory setting. Those who assume that the saw comes out of the box set perfectly for a long healthy life (as opposed to being set to meet the emissions requirements) may be in for an unpleasant surprise. That is a hard way to get educated about such things. Having a dealer with good service is definitely a blessing.

*CARBURETOR ADJUSTMENT*
Every unit is run at the factory and the carburetor is set in compliance with Emission Regulations. In addition, the carburetor is equipped with “H” (High Speed) and “L” (Low Speed) needle adjustment limiters that prevent settings outside acceptable limits.
1. Before adjusting carburetor clean or replace air filter and muffler “Spark Arrestor Screen”.
2. Make sure the bar and chain are properly adjusted.
3. Start engine and run several minutes to bring to operating temperature. Flash choke twice during warm-up to clear any air from the fuel system.
4. Stop engine. Turn “H” speed needle counterclockwise (CCW) to stop. Turn “L” speed needle midway between full clockwise (CW) stop and CCW stop.
5. Idle Speed Adjustment: Start engine, turn “Idle” speed adjustment screw CW until the saw chain begins to turn, then turn screw out CCW until the saw chain stops turning. Turn screw out, CCW, an additional 1/4 turn.
6. Accelerate to full throttle for 2 - 3 seconds to clear any excess fuel in the engine, then return to idle. Accelerate engine to full throttle to check for smooth transition from idle to high speed. If engine hesitates turn “L” needle CCW 1/8 turn and repeat acceleration. Continue adjustment until smooth acceleration results.
7. Check idle speed and reset if necessary as described in item 5. If a tachometer is available idle speed should be set to 2800 r/min.

I will measure the factory setting on my saw before the dealer adjusts it.


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## Miles86

Hi- Looks like using a special fuel is going to become normal operating procedure for small engines. I would love to see gas stations have a dedicated small engines fuel pump. I have a CAM2 dealer near me, no ethanol.

Gasahol can be used safely if you retune the engine richer and use an alcohol compatible 2 stroke oil, like the RC model guys use. Castor Oil, some Klotz brand oils, Blendzall (castor), these are going to protect great with alcohol (oxygenated fuels). Trade off is more frequent de-carboning and getting to buy spark plugs more often.

Some synthetics and mineral oils are NOT compatible with ethanol alcohol. Never mix castor with mineral oil.


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## zogger

woodchipper95 said:


> So will a dealer tune it for the customer with a special tool?
> Or can it be done with the ear (by someone other than me bc I'm not to knowledgeable when it comes to tuning) and would hate to blow a saw because of improper tune.



At a bare minimum you need that H as far CCW/rich as you can get it with the limiters in place. 

And I think echo gives ya a clue with oil mixture ratio. Notice on their six gallon mix oil bottle they have a line for 50:1, 2.6 ounces, but then there is the next line up at 40:1, 3.2 ounces per gallon. Clue! They publish a recommended 50:1 but stick that extra line there. My, isn't that interesting. 

Me, I would run the 40:1 at least.

I toasted a 600p running at the stock as sold screw adjustment, and 50:1. Ain't gonna do that again.


----------



## Miles86

Got that right, never understand the idea of being stingy with oil. 20:1 for me. Oil is cheap. (well sorta of cheap).
Has anyone run a cs-600 next to the new cs-620? I'm not giving up my cs-670, but I really getting hard not to drool at my echo dealer lately.


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## john damps

why would any body try to save pennies on gas,i buy 2-4 gallons of chainsaw gas at a time the difference is maybe .60cents i use startron gas treatment,on saws,lawnmower,snowblower,it only hirts on my 21 foot 250 horse power skeeter with a yammaha 250 ho 4 stroke,than i biuy 30-50 gallon, that hurts still use startron it take the waterand ethenal out completly,when using a chain saw dont buy cheap gas,it only causes problems,had a 47 foot cherry crush my left shin -tendins-mucels-and ligments,luckly did not break shin bone, but down for a while,ill get back to all when i pick up my echo timberwolf,i cant wait,


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## zogger

john damps said:


> why would any body try to save pennies on gas,i buy 2-4 gallons of chainsaw gas at a time the difference is maybe .60cents i use startron gas treatment,on saws,lawnmower,snowblower,it only hirts on my 21 foot 250 horse power skeeter with a yammaha 250 ho 4 stroke,than i biuy 30-50 gallon, that hurts still use startron it take the waterand ethenal out completly,when using a chain saw dont buy cheap gas,it only causes problems,had a 47 foot cherry crush my left shin -tendins-mucels-and ligments,luckly did not break shin bone, but down for a while,ill get back to all when i pick up my echo timberwolf,i cant wait,



Ouch! man, that sucks! Heal up good, don't push it early and make it worse.

I agree on the fuel, I pay a scosh more than 4 a gallon for 93 octane non ethanol. I ain't running the cheap gas if I can help it.


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## john damps

zogger said:


> Ouch! man, that sucks! Heal up good, don't push it early and make it worse.
> 
> I agree on the fuel, I pay a scosh more than 4 a gallon for 93 octane non ethanol. I ain't running the cheap gas if I can help it.


zogger is a smart man.thanks for the leg concern [spent last tues in hospitol for 10 hrs] dp u use startron? it works great never have a feul problem


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## demc570

john damps said:


> why would any body try to save pennies on gas,i buy 2-4 gallons of chainsaw gas at a time the difference is maybe .60cents i use startron gas treatment,on saws,lawnmower,snowblower,it only hirts on my 21 foot 250 horse power skeeter with a yammaha 250 ho 4 stroke,than i biuy 30-50 gallon, that hurts still use startron it take the waterand ethenal out completly,when using a chain saw dont buy cheap gas,it only causes problems,had a 47 foot cherry crush my left shin -tendins-mucels-and ligments,luckly did not break shin bone, but down for a while,ill get back to all when i pick up my echo timberwolf,i cant wait,


ouch---hope you heal quick,that had to hurt,makes me cringe!


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## zogger

john damps said:


> zogger is a smart man.thanks for the leg concern [spent last tues in hospitol for 10 hrs] dp u use startron? it works great never have a feul problem



Nope, just the good gas and I happen to use the echo powerblend mix. Started at 50:1, that didn't work out well, saws just seem to run badly and they got too hot for my liking, no matter the tune, 40:1 is much better, just recently went 32:1 just to see if that is better or worse. I'll give it some gallons in various wood before I make a decision on that. In the olden days I just used the same 30 weight for mix oil and bar oil, mix was the "glug glug glug, maybe another glug" method per gallon... HAHAHAH! it worked, too! Little stinky, but it worked...

The echo oil has stabilizer in it. I purposely left a tank of it in a cheap saw, it ran at over a year hanging around, that's good enough for me.


----------



## john damps

good info; thanks boy my 029 super cuts great, i love that saw i hope the 590 timberwolf is as good'


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## 7sleeper

Get well soon! 

7


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## john damps

well just wanted to let all know,[my leg is better but still screwed up ,crushed by big cherry log] i picked up my new echo 590 , the dealer had the wrong bar 18inch timberwolf, i order, a 20inch bar,so they put a prfessonal oregon bar on chaineged the chain and out the door i went total price with tax 441.39 saw was 399.99 and im tellinkg you from years of experience,[ started running saws in 1975] this saw cuts sooooo fast,i had to cut 2 face cords i had to guys carrying wood to splitting area,they had to stop me in ten min, i had well over 3 face cord cut, iy just fell thought the logs,20inch cherry, 18-20 inch black walnut,little ash 22inch, and had no fatige at all and only ran 3quarter throttle, cuts faster than my 029super,cuts faster than huski 61,and my old 268 isnt even close, not sure about my 044mag,that has 28 inch bar,[not fare to compare] but sure seems like echo is faster,this saw is unbeliveable,if your in the market for 55-60cc buy the echo 590 pluse you get a 5 year warrenty,buy from good dealer with service dept,not a big box store, i have 3 orders today will be cutting today,ill keep in touch


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## jdhacker

Gee glad to hear your ok John, the saw sounds nice!!


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## 7sleeper

No pics!? It never happened!



Congratulation about your new saw! 

7


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## moody

Good deal on getting the saw. But don't run any saw 3/4 throttle. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## john damps

ran almost 2 tanks throught today the thing cuts awsome i used to be very stihl loyal i own many husky ran them today, people just get hooked on one brand and thank thats the best, i own an excavating company, john deere wanted me to please demo there 700 dozer, i have a 450 lgp and a cat d 5 so i tried the deere 700 lgp after just renting a cat d6k ,i was clearing 48 acers that 700mlgp pushed so much more than the cat d6k they should be embarised, my next dig dozer will be a jd 700 lgp, you have to try different producs and echo has excellent stock products, i may buy another or the 562xp, but is it worth 300 dollors more?


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## Mastermind

I just finished porting another 600P. I'm damned impressed with those saws.


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## moody

Mastermind said:


> I just finished porting another 600P. I'm damned impressed with those saws.



The build quality and price makes Echo hard to overlook. Not to mention the stock performance isn't that bad to begin with. Sadly enough I've yet to have one sent in for tampering.


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## jdhacker

I hate to be the devil advocate, and not trying to start drama. But What saw did you compare side by side with, Also could you explain about the john deer pushing so much more then the cat. Did they have the same kind of tracks? because the cat has more hp and is a heaver machine, I would think they would be very close, as the cat only weighs around one ton more, and only has a very small amount more power. The only reason I ask, when we give a opinion and compare something, lets make sure its unbiased. Because someone may use it, and there findings may differ.


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## LowVolt

I picked up a minty almost new 600p. Looks to be well built. Can't wait to try it out!


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## Mastermind

Rory, if you want to make it a bit stronger the muffler is a breeze to open up. Send me a PM if you decide to do it and have your muffler off.


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## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> Rory, if you want to make it a bit stronger the muffler is a breeze to open up. Send me a PM if you decide to do it and have your muffler off.


I was wondering about that because if you look on echos website the next model above the 600, I forget the model number, says it delivers 13% more power with the same engine size. Sounds like that 13% could be had from a simple mm?

Not sure what I am doing with it, probably just going to sell it. She is like new.


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## Mastermind

What do you want for it?.


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## moody

LowVolt said:


> I was wondering about that because if you look on echos website the next model above the 600, I forget the model number, says it delivers 13% more power with the same engine size. Sounds like that 13% could be had from a simple mm?
> 
> Not sure what I am doing with it, probably just going to sell it. She is like new.



620 it's a pretty interesting saw. They really are wanting to move the full wrap version. I'm working on getting power ratings from my distributor

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## SawTroll

moody said:


> 620 it's a pretty interesting saw. They really are wanting to move the full wrap version. I'm working on getting power ratings from my distributor



The specs are a bit closer to other 60cc saws than Echo saws usually are, but still not quite in the top league, and not even halv close to the Huskys, specially not the 560xp/2260 - anyway, that model seem like a major step forward for Echo in the 60cc class (likely it really is a new Shindaiwa in Echo dress).


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## moody

SawTroll said:


> The specs are a bit closer to other 60cc saws, but still not quite in the top league, and not even halv close to the Huskys - anyway, that model seem like a major step forward for Echo in the 60cc class (likely it really is a new Shindaiwa in Echo dress).



The only Shindaiwa design that made it when Echo bought them was the 500p. I know that the 590 timber Wolf is 4.0hp.


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## jughead500

jdhacker said:


> I hate to be the devil advocate, and not trying to start drama. But What saw did you compare side by side with, Also could you explain about the john deer pushing so much more then the cat. Did they have the same kind of tracks? because the cat has more hp and is a heaver machine, I would think they would be very close, as the cat only weighs around one ton more, and only has a very small amount more power. The only reason I ask, when we give a opinion and compare something, lets make sure its unbiased. Because someone may use it, and there findings may differ.


I'm sure that Masterminds word on the CS600p is pretty well what anyone would need to know.I have one and I'm impressed with it stock and muffler modded.I've ran just about anything comparable including the clamshells.Clamshells against a cs600 is like comparing apples to oranges.I've owned and modded both the 455 rancher and the ms290 and they just can't compare.The 455 on performance and the 290 on reliability or performance.
Yes I'm damned impressed would love to get my hands on a cs620.


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## LowVolt

Yes that cs620 in the 3/4 wrap looks pretty good.


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## moody

LowVolt said:


> Yes that cs620 in the 3/4 wrap looks pretty good.



It's about the same weight as a 372. I'd probably compare it to a 6400 power wise.


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## Mastermind

I like to see Niko's face after running this 600P.


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## LowVolt

It is all orange, just a different shade I guess! 

JK ST!


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## SawTroll

moody said:


> The only Shindaiwa design that made it when Echo bought them was the 500p. I know that the 590 timber Wolf is 4.0hp.




I'm not sure if it was Echo that bought Shindaiwa, or if it was their parent company - anyway, the design staff from Shindaiwa may well still be in action, as it obviously was better than the Echo one, even though it wasn't "world class"......


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## jdhacker

jughead500 said:


> I'm sure that Masterminds word on the CS600p is pretty well what anyone would need to know.I have one and I'm impressed with it stock and muffler modded.I've ran just about anything comparable including the clamshells.Clamshells against a cs600 is like comparing apples to oranges.I've owned and modded both the 455 rancher and the ms290 and they just can't compare.The 455 on performance and the 290 on reliability or performance.
> Yes I'm damned impressed would love to get my hands on a cs620.



I was talking about a cs590, wouldn't you compare a cs600 to a ms362 or a 562xp?


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## moody

SawTroll said:


> I'm not sure if it was Echo that bought Shindaiwa, or if it was their parent company - anyway, the design staff from Shindaiwa may well still be in action, as it obviously was better than the Echo one, even though it wasn't "world class"......



They only killed the saw line. Yamabiko Corp made the purchase. The 500p is very under rated and for the money is very competitive with any saw in the price range.


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## moody

jdhacker said:


> I was talking about a cs590, wouldn't you compare a cs600 to a ms362 or a 562xp?



No that's where the 600P comes in. The 590 is directly marketed against the 290/291 and 455's. The 590 holds the upper hand IMO being a split mag case at less than $400


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## SawTroll

jdhacker said:


> I was talking about a cs590, wouldn't you compare a cs600 to a ms362 or a 562xp?



That would be like dreaming - not realistic at all!


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## SawTroll

moody said:


> No that's where the 600P comes in. The 590 is directly marketed against the 290/291 and 455's. The 590 holds the upper hand IMO being a split mag case at less than $400



Could well be, with that "competition".


----------



## fastLeo151

moody said:


> It's about the same weight as a 372. I'd probably compare it to a 6400 power wise.



You can compare them but the 6400 is a way better saw. More power, way smoother and better quality built. That series of echo saws are a damn good value but not 6400 comparable imo.


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## RedFir Down

moody said:


> 620 it's a pretty interesting saw. They really are wanting to move the full wrap version. I'm working on getting power ratings from my distributor
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


I had a nice conversation with the echo rep when he was in our local shop a few months ago. One of the things I asked him about is why Echo doesn't publish there HP ratings and he told me they dont test HP because there is to many "variables" when testing and its just a number.
I also asked him about the 590 advertising it makes 4hp and he said that spec was to compare the timberwolf to the Stihl and Husky farm and ranch saws.

I haven't ran a 590 or 600 yet but judging by the build and the reviews i would take that over ANY Stihl or Husky farm saw. 
I would be curious to know how different the cylinders are between the 2 because my dealer has them marked down to $399 with no sales tax.


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## moody

fastLeo151 said:


> You can compare them but the 6400 is a way better saw. More power, way smoother and better quality built. That series of echo saws are a damn good value but not 6400 comparable imo.



I didn't mean that it had more power I just was saying that that's the type of saw it compares to.


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## LowVolt

SawTroll said:


> That would be like dreaming - not realistic at all!



I know! A ms362 blows all three of those saws out of the water!


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## moody

RedFir Down said:


> I had a nice conversation with the echo rep when he was in our local shop a few months ago. One of the things I asked him about is why Echo doesn't publish there HP ratings and he told me they dont test HP because there is to many "variables" when testing and its just a number.
> I also asked him about the 590 advertising it makes 4hp and he said that spec was to compare the timberwolf to the Stihl and Husky farm and ranch saws.
> 
> I haven't ran a 590 or 600 yet but judging by the build and the reviews i would take that over ANY Stihl or Husky farm saw.
> I would be curious to know how different the cylinders are between the 2 because my dealer has them marked down to $399 with no sales tax.



The 590 is priced at 399 with a 20 msrp

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## fastLeo151

We ordered 3 or 4 of the 590s at the shop I work at. Most of them got sold at cost just to move them. After a side by side comparison to our full dolmar line even though there a good saw for the money we had a hard time selling them.


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## SawTroll

moody said:


> It's about the same weight as a 372. I'd probably compare it to a 6400 power wise.



Well, the power specs for the Echo 620 are quite a bit lower than for the 6400, .3 hp. The 560xp/562xp/2260 is on par with the 6400 specs, and the MS362 is inbetween.


----------



## moody

fastLeo151 said:


> We ordered 3 or 4 of the 590s at the shop I work at. Most of them got sold at cost just to move them. After a side by side comparison to our full dolmar line even though there a good saw for the money we had a hard time selling them.



Dolmar is great quality and priced very well. I don't see the 590 flourishing next to dolmar products but next to Stihl and Husqvarna they would be hard to pass up for the local firewood hack.


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## jdhacker

RedFir Down said:


> I had a nice conversation with the echo rep when he was in our local shop a few months ago. One of the things I asked him about is why Echo doesn't publish there HP ratings and he told me they dont test HP because there is to many "variables" when testing and its just a number.
> I also asked him about the 590 advertising it makes 4hp and he said that spec was to compare the timberwolf to the Stihl and Husky farm and ranch saws.
> 
> I haven't ran a 590 or 600 yet but judging by the build and the reviews i would take that over ANY Stihl or Husky farm saw.
> I would be curious to know how different the cylinders are between the 2 because my dealer has them marked down to $399 with no sales tax.



I think im in the twilight zone, im sure the echo is a great saw. They have been making good saws and power equipment for a long time. But in stock form on their comparison shows the stihl and 590 very close in power, with the 590 with almost 5cc bigger engine. And .7 tenth of a pound heaver. If a dealer was close to me I may have one.

http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachment/90d6a91c-df0b-410c-b029-52b0a7e4b831/CS-590 Timber Wolf.pdf


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## moody

SawTroll said:


> Well, the power specs for the Echo 620 are quite a bit lower than for the 6400, .3 hp. The 560xp/562xp/2260 is on par with the 6400 specs, and the MS362 is inbetween.



Well if you could point me in the direction of the Echo power specs it'd be appreciated. They might help me with my spring order.


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## SawTroll

fastLeo151 said:


> We ordered 3 or 4 of the 590s at the shop I work at. Most of them got sold at cost just to move them. After a side by side comparison to our full dolmar line even though there a good saw for the money we had a hard time selling them.



Very understandable - who really want to buy an Echo saw when there are options?


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## moody

SawTroll said:


> Very understandable - who really want to buy an Echo saw when there are options?



A guy heating his home on a budget.


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## Mastermind

SawTroll said:


> Very understandable - who really want to buy an Echo saw when there are options?



Are you drunk?


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## LowVolt




----------



## fastLeo151

If you do pull the trigger buy it from a real dealer that will tune it for you. The ones I set up were set way lean. In some cases the limiters need pulled to make enough room for adjustment. And grease the air filter seam.


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## moody

Mastermind said:


> Are you drunk?



I'm glad I put my coke down to read that


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## moody

fastLeo151 said:


> If you do pull the trigger buy it from a real dealer that will tune it for you. The ones I set up were set way lean. In some cases the limiters need pulled to make enough room for adjustment. And grease the air filter seam.



Good dealer can get a guy in a quality product at very good price. A great dealer can set it up and keep you using that product for a very long time.


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## RedFir Down

moody said:


> The 590 is priced at 399 with a 20 msrp


Good to know, my dealer must have those marked up a bit before he came down to 399.




jdhacker said:


> I think im in the twilight zone, im sure the echo is a great saw. They have been making good saws and power equipment for a long time. But in stock form on their comparison shows the stihl and 590 very close in power, with the 590 with almost 5cc bigger engine. And .7 tenth of a pound heaver. If a dealer was close to me I may have one.


I was basically looking at that from a bang for your buck outlook. The build quality of the echo... more longevity and it has .2 more hp. In that class of a saw more than likely the person behind it is not going to notice .7 of a pound.
But whatever a person is happy with is all that matters.


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## moody

RedFir Down said:


> Good to know, my dealer must have those marked up a bit before he came down to 399.
> 
> 
> 
> I was basically looking at that from a bang for your buck outlook. The build quality of the echo... more longevity and it has .2 more hp. In that class of a saw more than likely the person behind it is not going to notice .7 of a pound.
> But whatever a person is happy with is all that matters.



Our distributor has a recommended MSRP but a few places pull the "on sale" trick. By seeing the on sale sign you'd never know you're paying full price. It keeps people from trying to talk your price down. We don't make a killing on saws and the lower the model the less profit is made.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## RedFir Down

Good to know, Thanks Moody


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## moody

RedFir Down said:


> Good to know, Thanks Moody



Not a problem. Just remember that you're not paying for the product, you're paying for the service.


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## Mastermind

Are you working at an Echo dealer Moody?


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## moody

Mastermind said:


> Are you working at an Echo dealer Moody?



I'm actually getting my spring order lined up as an Echo dealer. I'm not allowed to advertise on the Web but when I get everything situated I'm allowed to sell parts on the web


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## Mastermind

Cool man, did you rent a building and all that stuff?


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## moody

Mastermind said:


> Cool man, did you rent a building and all that stuff?



I'm renting until the Perma frost thaws then if all is well I'll be building a shop. Business licensing and permits are taken care they're not cheap and lots of time invested but I'm legal. Startup isn't for the faint of heart.


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## Mastermind

I'm glad to hear this Moody. Best of luck.


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## moody

Mastermind said:


> I'm glad to hear this Moody. Best of luck.



My wallet isn't glad lol. I was warned to keep this saw gig as a side job but I've never been the best listener I'm not going to get rich. I just find something in saws I can't find anywhere else.


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## Mastermind

You'll rarely find a man that gets rich working. Doing something you enjoy is better than being rich though.


----------



## moody

Mastermind said:


> You'll rarely find a man that gets rich working. Doing something you enjoy is better than being rich though.



The only dumb ass I work for now is myself It's not been easy getting this far but I would rather struggle doing this gig than Excell at doing any more composite repair.


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## SawTroll

Mastermind said:


> Are you drunk?



No - just in good mood!


----------



## Mastermind

SawTroll said:


> No - just in good mood!



Well get to drinking then........I need someone to fuss with!


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## SawTroll

moody said:


> A guy heating his home on a budget.



Maybe, but it obviously didn't happen in the case I commented on, before they dumped them at cost.


----------



## SawTroll

Mastermind said:


> Well get to drinking then........I need someone to fuss with!




I have been drinking beer for a while, but I started late, and the pace is not high....


----------



## SawTroll

moody said:


> I'm actually getting my spring order lined up as an Echo dealer. I'm not allowed to advertise on the Web but when I get everything situated I'm allowed to sell parts on the web




How do you have the stomac to deal with that arrogant bunch?


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## moody

SawTroll said:


> How do you have the stomac to deal with that arrogant bunch?



Who's arrogant?


----------



## SawTroll

moody said:


> Who's arrogant?




You will likely learn at some point, unless they have changed their attitude radically.


----------



## old 040

moody said:


> They only killed the saw line. Yamabiko Corp made the purchase. The 500p is very under rated and for the money is very competitive with any saw in the price range.


just wanted to say good luck on your venture in the saw business, echo saws are a tough sell where i work, but we sell them, the 590, 600p, and 620p being what i feel the best saws in their current line up, i do like the the look of the over seas version (shindaiwa) saws, i think another color change could help sales, i sold my 600p after finding out that the 590 runs just as well for less money, may still buy the 590, but for now my huskys are getting the job done...............


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## jughead500

Oooooo that red ones sexy.


----------



## jughead500

Looks like the 598 is rated at 4.1 hp. not much more than the Echo version in the US but probably Due to less Emissions restrictions.


----------



## 7sleeper

jughead500 said:


> Looks like the 598 is rated at 4.1 hp. not much more than the Echo version in the US but probably Due to less Emissions restrictions.


But it has been mentioned before that Echo measures hp at the tip of the bar, so the reading are different. To bad KWF never got an echo to test, then we would have the real numbers!

7


----------



## Philbert

Good point. Every body mail one of each chainsaw to me and I will test them in a uniform manner. Of course, I will have to keep all of the saws to calibrate future tests!

Manufacturer supplied date is always subject to inflation unless there is some uniform standard (ANSI, ISO, etc.), and some trust that they follow these. Some industries have third party verification. Even then, some car manufacturers will boast about a MPG rating that is only achieved by a stripped down model that is almost never available.

The displacement, HP, torque, and chain speed ratings, when supplied, can be starting points for comparing saws. Some of the interesting things about this site are the hands-on experiences of other users, and the guidance provided on how much some of these saws can or cannot be improved with _simple_ mods.

Philbert


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## mountainlake

The real test is in the wood. Steve


----------



## john damps

to jd hacker the caterpillar d6 was a high track lgp 2010 k series, i run them and old cats alot [its hard to beat the 1979-1984 cat d6] for YOUR ONFO the john deere was a 2010 700 lgp and they were both on the same job pushing up 8000 yards of top soil for a farmer in fultonville ny, i wouldnt compair apples to pizza i know what im talking about, the john deere out pushed it by more than a little,imnot brand loyal so i think my experience and opinons are not swaying me to say somthing becuse i favor ford over chevy or cat over deere,i have not ran a wacker neuson excavator but from what i have been told they are the cats ass, i was thinking about buying a new case [and im not a huge case fan] ex 55b excavator,they weigh 12,200[and change] but are only 39 horse power,however the dealer was giving me a great deal and letting use it for 2 weeks on a upcomming job,another local salsmen is trying to get me in a wacker 5003 [i think thats the model] and when i looked at the specs it has 58 horse power so i better give it a try, my john deere 650j lgp has 90 horse but dosnt put the power to the ground im goin to trade for a komatsu ex 39. the 650 spins to fast, well so much that,


----------



## jughead500




----------



## jdhacker

Oh im a case fan as far as backhoe, I have a 580 D and a old ford F700 I work on the side. Im not brand loyal, but I can still get every part for my old case. Thats a must. And means something to me.


----------



## john damps

any owners of the husky new 562? how big of a bar would you feel is a good size, i have a lot clearing job to look at .the land owner said they, 60 to 80 foot high and at least 30-36 inches, i have an older 272 with 24inch, and stihl 044mag but i hear that new huquavarna 562 is a real power house, i have 10 saws now but i have a chainsaw buying bug, it happens every year, i just bought the new 590 ECHO and its AWSOOOOM, but still may buy another my problem is my shoulders are shoot i dont want a big heavy saw,and realy dont need another but what the hell its just money,i need reports from you guys that know what your talking about,you guys know , is this husky the best in the 65cc class or is there somthing better and faster,ill check for your replies just remember weight is very important to me, thanks guys. ill be waiting,


----------



## 7sleeper

john damps said:


> any owners of the husky new 562? how big of a bar would you feel is a good size, i have a lot clearing job to look at .the land owner said they, 60 to 80 foot high and at least 30-36 inches, i have an older 272 with 24inch, and stihl 044mag but i hear that new huquavarna 562 is a real power house, i have 10 saws now but i have a chainsaw buying bug, it happens every year, i just bought the new 590 ECHO and its AWSOOOOM, but still may buy another my problem is my shoulders are shoot i dont want a big heavy saw,and realy dont need another but what the hell its just money,i need reports from you guys that know what your talking about,you guys know , is this husky the best in the 65cc class or is there somthing better and faster,ill check for your replies just remember weight is very important to me, thanks guys. ill be waiting,


Husqvarna 562 is only 59.8ccm!

7


----------



## john damps

used the 590 today 22inch -18 inch hard willow that all the bark was off the wood was as white a paper and as hard to split as grannite rock, that echo 590 cut 4 loads [4 face cord in 15 min, maybe than i hit a dam stone, will cut more tommorow, this thing has no vibration, and cuts like s lazer, cuts faster than my 029 super-0390super-husky 61 and 268 and i would almost saw faster than mu o44mag but that has a big bar not apples to appels,no fatige withe the echo just very smooth, i kinda favored stihl over 30 years but the sane class saw wont touch the echo 590 in many differnt waysm not to menchen warrenty is good till 2019 and life time on egnition, i love this saw, also have a new husky 450xtorq,[bought in a pinch ]when my old 61 went down than my 029 super blew a barring,they are older saws so i expect some problems even though i take great care of all of them,


----------



## john damps

well i ran the 590 echo all week i probley cut 12 cord, i ran the old husky 61 -the stihl 029 super,and when i switch to the echo its like running a corvette, sooo smoooooth so much power,nice power band,no vibration i dont know how they do it.its kind of like my 250 sho yammaha on my 21ft fx skeeter,the husky is like the high performance mercury-very snotty the stihl is in bettween the echo is so smoth endless power wonderfull power band and no vibration,veruuummmm husky is snotty-riiiingriiiing-riiiiing,you have to run the echo to see why i compared in this [funny] fashion,some people will understand, sorry for those that dont, my fault,just trying to lay it on the plate,also the echo starts on 2nd pull and its been below o all week in the am,


----------



## john damps

WELL i just thought i would touch base with you all, i picked up a new 20in husky 455e rancher,now i have a new 450e, new 509 echo,[witch you all know i love] i stoped at a husky dealer and traded 2 of my 4 echo cs 400[ they were mint,maybe 3-4 tanks of gas ran trew them] i sill have 1 in box and one full of fuel and oil but never used, i ran the 455 husky my opinion[for whats it worth], saw light good ballance more power than the 450e. but not a real lot although i only cut 14inch to 18 inch hard maple and locust,stars good not as good as the echo,i will buy another echo 590,cant beat them for 400 bucks,than need to decide echo 680 with 24 inch or husky new 562 with 20 or 24inch[if can be had in24m doese any one know,] the echo 680 24inch is 629 bucks from my dealer, the husky dealer gave me 200 each for my cs 400,i wasnt crazy about that but i dont need 4 of them i paid 60 dollors,i know i could have sold them for more just didnt want to deal with it,how do you guys like the 455e with 20 inch?now im dowm to 2 stihls 029super,[just rebuilt] and older 044, i thikn i will stick with echo and husky,even thought i was stihl loyal,just not crazey about the new ones, im not sure why,husky just seem balanced better and echo are so smooth and 5 year warrenty and price very competitive, any thoughts between 680 echo and and 562 huskys? thanks.oh i do have my 1989 husky 61,that cuts good,no chain break so a little dangerest,and im cutting tornado blow down in my 130 acer wood lot, about 20 acers are a mess skidding with my john deere 700lgp


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## jdhacker

If your cutting 14 to 18 in stuff all you need is a pro 50cc saw.


----------



## john damps

it so happenend i cut 14 to 18 inch yesterday, some of my clearing jobs and wood on my wood lot are 30inch, i only had 2 orders yesrerday they both wanted sm aller wood, i also for got i still have a 1989 268 and 272 husky but dont use them much,both of them had broken gas tanks ,when i picked them up from the dealer they busted my ass becuse i wore stihl hat, that day i purchesed husky, 61-262-272, i still own all 3 but just use the 61 from time to time, that just got honed out and rebuilt by chairlie stahl,[little falls ny area] 14-18 inch isnt the norm for me ussaly 18-28 inch,,


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## jdhacker

You need to sale me that 044 its not near as smooth as your echo.


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## Miles86

Anyone have any experience trying to make a cs-600 into a cs-620?

I looked over the IPL and it looks like the crankshafts are different PN's, so is that due to a change in the flywheel keyway? Or maybe the rod small end is updated?
Main bearings are the same PN's. This one update make the idea seem unworkable for us shade tree mechanics without a machine shop.

Anyone tried repairing a scored piston cylinder from a 600 with a 620 top end only? I am thinking there are too many updates on the 620 to do something like that.

Doesn't look feasible money wise. Thanks for any comments.


----------



## john damps

the 044 is about 22-24 years old, its in remarkable shape, i still use it when clear cutting for a house foundation,somtimes there are huge pine and hemlock,so still have need for it ,just dont use it as much, my shoulders are bad, both need operations i just dont have the time or dont want to do it,


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## nmurph

I would take a 262, 268, 272, or 044 over the 590 anyday. Any of them will soundly trounce the 590 (an no, I've never run a 590). If they don't, they need attention. The only thing the 590 might have over all of them is smoothness.


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## john damps

i never said the 590 had more power than the 262-268-272 i just wanted a new mid size saw, read the messagem my 029 super was down my husky 61 was being rebuilt, if you NEVER RAN A 590 ECHO AND I HAVE, I DONT THINK YOUR AN EXPERT ON SOMTHING YOU NEVER TRIED, I NEVER RAN A KOMATSU 61 BUT I KNOW ITS GOT MORE POWER THAN MY D3 OR 450 JOHN DEERE, OR MAYBE MY 700LGP,IF I NEVER RAN ONE IM NOY GOING TO PUT IT DOWN, i bought 4 saws in last month,trying to keep up with time, my big saws were bought in 1989-1991, yes the 272 will out cut the 590 echo,i want comparing them,run one than youll see how they are,


----------



## nmurph

john damps said:


> i never said the 590 had more power than the 262-268-272 i just wanted a new mid size saw, read the messagem my 029 super was down my husky 61 was being rebuilt, if you NEVER RAN A 590 ECHO AND I HAVE, I DONT THINK YOUR AN EXPERT ON SOMTHING YOU NEVER TRIED, I NEVER RAN A KOMATSU 61 BUT I KNOW ITS GOT MORE POWER THAN MY D3 OR 450 JOHN DEERE, OR MAYBE MY 700LGP,IF I NEVER RAN ONE IM NOY GOING TO PUT IT DOWN, i bought 4 saws in last month,trying to keep up with time, my big saws were bought in 1989-1991, yes the 272 will out cut the 590 echo,i want comparing them,run one than youll see how they are,


 
I'm sure you didn't- your account must have been hijacked.

BTW, I've never hit against a major league pitcher, but I'm pretty sure I would get smoked even though I was a pretty good ball player in my years.



john damps said:


> ...this saw cuts sooooo fast,i had to cut 2 face cords i had to guys carrying wood to splitting area,they had to stop me in ten min, i had well over 3 face cord cut, iy just fell thought the logs,20inch cherry, 18-20 inch black walnut,little ash 22inch, and had no fatige at all and *only ran 3quarter throttle, cuts faster than my 029super,cuts faster than huski 61,and my old 268 isnt even close, not sure about my 044mag,that has 28 inch bar,[not fare to compare] but sure seems like echo is faster,this saw is unbeliveable,*if your in the market for 55-60cc buy the echo 590 pluse you get a 5 year warrenty,buy from good dealer with service dept,not a big box store, i have 3 orders today will be cutting today,ill keep in touch


 


john damps said:


> used the 590 today 22inch -18 inch hard willow that all the bark was off the wood was as white a paper and as hard to split as grannite rock, that echo 590 cut 4 loads [4 face cord in 15 min, maybe than i hit a dam stone, will cut more tommorow, this thing has no vibration, and cuts like s lazer, *cuts faster than my 029 super-0390super-husky 61 and 268 and i would almost saw faster than mu o44mag but that has a big bar not apples to appels*,no fatige withe the echo just very smooth, i kinda favored stihl over 30 years but the sane class saw wont touch the echo 590 in many differnt waysm not to menchen warrenty is good till 2019 and life time on egnition, i love this saw, also have a new husky 450xtorq,[bought in a pinch ]when my old 61 went down than my 029 super blew a barring,they are older saws so i expect some problems even though i take great care of all of them,


----------



## john damps

a poet and dont know it, got to go cut wood


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## jdhacker

I glad you like your new saw, and I know echo has made good stuff for years. But I think that is about enough from the super duper steel cutting tree slaying, granite eating, chain breaking 590. I would love to run my 044 against a 590 or 600 with a 25 in bar both burred in something hard.


----------



## zogger

jdhacker said:


> I glad you like your new saw, and I know echo has made good stuff for years. But I think that is about enough from the super duper steel cutting tree slaying, granite eating, chain breaking 590. I would love to run my 044 against a 590 or 600 with a 25 in bar both burred in something hard.



That's two different class saws there isn't it? 60 and a 70? And how much was the 044 brand new?

I have only run in the same ballpark there a 55 rancher and a 600p, no contest the 600p was stronger/faster better built. Haven't run any modern ranchers or farmboss saws so can't say how it compares.

For 4 bills brand new the 590 echo is a decent deal I would think. That's the models the 590 is competing with price point money vs performance, ranchers and farmbosses.


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## nmurph

I agree, for that price, I think the 590 deserves serious consideration if you are looking for a HO/Rancher saw.


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## jdhacker

Im not the one said it would cut close to a 044. As for the rancher its not the same class saw.


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## nmurph

jdhacker said:


> ...As for the rancher its not the same class saw.


 
I'm not sure what you mean, but it is marketed as a Farm and Ranch saw.


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## jdhacker

Its a pro saw marketed in that class, because it cant compete with husky and stihl 60cc pro saw's


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## 7sleeper

nmurph said:


> I'm not sure what you mean, but it is marketed as a Farm and Ranch saw.


So is the 545 and 555.

7


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## nmurph

7sleeper said:


> So is the 545 and 555.
> 
> 7


 
Yep, and the 421.


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## zogger

jdhacker said:


> Its a pro saw marketed in that class, because it cant compete with husky and stihl 60cc pro saw's



You mean 562xp and 362cm? What do those saws cost, rough ball park?


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## jdhacker

It doesn't matter that they cost more, as there better saws, Im not down on echo, I had a echo trimmer for many years. If I had a echo dealer close by I would proy have a 590 or 600 saw. But their you have it, no dealer, no support, when it breaks where do you take it to get warranty. Also does any one know for sure where their made, I know the engine is Japan, what about the rest. It's cheaper for a reason, husky and stihl Have a large dealer network. These things cost money, also they make superior saws. Like I said im not down on echo, I think its a good buy, but when clams of a 590 cutting with a 044, I said something, maybe I should have kept my pie hoe shut. But people new looking to buy their first saw, they come to places like this to get accurate info.


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## Hedgerow

nmurph said:


> I'm sure you didn't- your account must have been hijacked.
> 
> BTW, I've never hit against a major league pitcher, but I'm pretty sure I would get smoked even though I was a pretty good ball player in my years.



Meth...

It's what's for dinner...


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## mountainlake

With Echo Dolmar or Efco your aren't paying for the Stihl or Husky name. Echo parts can be bought online at reasonable prices or at dealers which there are a lot of, maybe not 2 on every block like Stihl but where I live maybe 15 within 50 miles with the closest 14 miles away and I live out in the country. Certainly a 590 wont cut with a 044 but I'd bet you'd be surprised how close it would be , there are quite a few vids on here where Echo saws cut real good cc for cc against Stihl and Huskys best.. Steve


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## zogger

jdhacker said:


> It doesn't matter that they cost more, as there better saws, Im not down on echo, I had a echo trimmer for many years. If I had a echo dealer close by I would proy have a 590 or 600 saw. But their you have it, no dealer, no support, when it breaks where do you take it to get warranty. Also does any one know for sure where their made, I know the engine is Japan, what about the rest. It's cheaper for a reason, husky and stihl Have a large dealer network. These things cost money, also they make superior saws. Like I said im not down on echo, I think its a good buy, but when clams of a 590 cutting with a 044, I said something, maybe I should have kept my pie hoe shut. But people new looking to buy their first saw, they come to places like this to get accurate info.



I never claimed they would outcut an 044, but I would say a 600p will hang with a rancher or farmboss.

As to service and dealers, old argument around here. My local jawohl fatherland dealer is *pitiful*, so much so any schteel I have is always up for swap. I have no interest in putting hours on one. I run them enough to know they work, that's it. I don't dislike them, just they aren't practical to me in case I need a cheap small part fast. They stock bupkis and near two month wait for parts, as in ta heck with that noise. Is that saying their saws suck? Nope, just saying good and bad dealers are all over intermixed, or too many dealers local, or not enough dealers, etc. Random crapshoot on geographical area with dealers, any brand, good or bad. I could proly go any direction 50 miles and it would be different, but I don't live there.....I know you can buy any echo part online, that's a plus in their favor.

To me, one, you need to be your own service tech and also be aware of how and where to get parts online, besides any local dealer action. Second, it's all about "cut for buck", and personal taste in style and handling, etc. And like most guys here any warranty I might be qualified for would be moot, as the saw would get modded, if/when I got a brand new one, any make.

I have never brand bashed around here and ain't gonna start, because any argument you can make against a,b or c you or someone can make the same argument about x,y or z.


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## john damps

i can run my 044 inthe same stuff, i just looked at the husky 562, and bought oil the guy gave me a husky xp hat 17 dollors that was nice of him, i would like to hear more about the 562,are they worth as much as a 372,there is only about 100 difference in my area, who is running them i would like to hear from you,oh is anyone running the pre mix cans of ethenol free gas with oil mixed, i see they sell for 7,99, i can but ethenol free in amsterdam, 4;15 per gallon, thats what i use, but the cans look nice to use, dont take up a lot of room,


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## jughead500

My 600 was outcutting a ms310 today.I actually built and muffler modded the 310 back last spring.both are equally muffler modded and are wearing 3/8 20" bars.mine with 70 link the stihl has 72 link.both had new stihl chains straight out of the box.
Also checked compression on the echo today.its pushing 165 psi.going to check the squish later this week and see if I can pull the base gasket.


----------



## Hedgerow

jughead500 said:


> My 600 was outcutting a ms310 today.I actually built and muffler modded the 310 back last spring.both are equally muffler modded and are wearing 3/8 20" bars.mine with 70 link the stihl has 72 link.both had new stihl chains straight out of the box.
> Also checked compression on the echo today.its pushing 165 psi.going to check the squish later this week and see if I can pull the base gasket.


Should be plenty of room there... Was on mine...


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## jughead500

Okie Dokie.sounds good


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## Deleted member 83629

I can attest to my little echo rock solid reliable yeah yeah it is smaller but i like it tons better than my cousins 435. I have only got 7 tanks burned so far but all i done to it was pulled the limiters and tuned it a little fat so it 4 strokes out of the cut and touched up the rakers a little. The saw only gets echo red armor and premium ethanol free 90. 
The I-30 starter is easy on my hands the adjustable oiler is a wonderful option i can't say enough about it because it is great little saw. I don't own a 590 or a 600p but rest assured i know it is a great saw and who cares if it can't outrun a 044 or 562 xp.


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## john damps

i dont know why theses guys like to argue,i have 4 cs 400 and your right they start great, i have an old 044 and love it,but my shoulders are shot,[ex boxer gplden gloves 1978-1882] body builder 1979-1984, and just abuse my body,i had 26 fights,weight 160ibs, benched press 385-squated 545,dead lift 510lbs, now im paying for it,i have fibromyagia,rumathoted authritist, 2strokes,never smoked, havent drank 11 years] so i like guns and chainsaws that are light and little vibration,i started in family logging buissnes 1n 1974,my hands are sow bad they lock half closed when i wake up, any how i never said the 590 is as fast as my 044 i said i would like to sompair them but my o44 has 27inch bar,i have always been stihl lyal,now im sticking with husky and echo,and ill buy a second echo 590,people can run what they want,what ever your happy with,i dont think were here to bust people ass, to each their own, i run harley davidson, but if ride a kawasaki or honda god bless ya im not going to tell you you dont know what your talking about,im just trying to find out how good the 562xp is, is it worth all that money,i have 4 dozers 2 excavators 1 rubber tire back hoe,2 skid steer,i think 9-10 chainsaws,i still liike people opinon before i buy,the 562 is almost as much as 372, and my old 272,is loud and 23 years old,[maybe 25 years old] i like the idea of the nice lght desine on the 562,just want people that run them opinion, thank you are they worth that much money?


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## Hedgerow

john damps said:


> i dont know why theses guys like to argue,i have 4 cs 400 and your right they start great, i have an old 044 and love it,but my shoulders are shot,[ex boxer gplden gloves 1978-1882] body builder 1979-1984, and just abuse my body,i had 26 fights,weight 160ibs, benched press 385-squated 545,dead lift 510lbs, now im paying for it,i have fibromyagia,rumathoted authritist, 2strokes,never smoked, havent drank 11 years] so i like guns and chainsaws that are light and little vibration,i started in family logging buissnes 1n 1974,my hands are sow bad they lock half closed when i wake up, any how i never said the 590 is as fast as my 044 i said i would like to sompair them but my o44 has 27inch bar,i have always been stihl lyal,now im sticking with husky and echo,and ill buy a second echo 590,people can run what they want,what ever your happy with,i dont think were here to bust people ass, to each their own, i run harley davidson, but if ride a kawasaki or honda god bless ya im not going to tell you you dont know what your talking about,im just trying to find out how good the 562xp is, is it worth all that money,i have 4 dozers 2 excavators 1 rubber tire back hoe,2 skid steer,i think 9-10 chainsaws,i still liike people opinon before i buy,the 562 is almost as much as 372, and my old 272,is loud and 23 years old,[maybe 25 years old] i like the idea of the nice lght desine on the 562,just want people that run them opinion, thank you are they worth that much money?


 I run a 562...
Yes... It's worth every penny...
Best performing, slickest handling, 60 cc saw out there..


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## nmurph

john damps said:


> i dont know why theses guys like to argue,i have 4 cs 400...


 
Because you contradict yourself everytime you post-




john damps said:


> ...i stoped at a husky dealer and traded 2 of my 4 echo cs 400...


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## jdhacker

You must have been a bad boy in 1978 to be golden gloves in 1978 at only 13 years old.


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## jdhacker

jdhacker said:


> You must have been a bad boy in 1978 to be golden gloves in 1978 at only 13 years old.


Im glad you didn't go to my school, I would have never had lunch money.


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## nmurph

jdhacker said:


> You must have been a bad boy in 1978 to be golden gloves in 1978 at only 13 years old.


 
and this...



john damps said:


> ...i had 26 fights,weight 160ibs, benched press 385-squated 545,dead lift 510lbs...


 
a 160lb'er pressing 385 and still presumably still just in his teens.

John, I'm sure you're a hard-working guy who knows way more about bulldozers and excavators than most, and more than me for sure. I'm glad you're a member and I hope your get yourself a 562 soon. They are a great saw (with a small percentage having carb problems). If I needed a new 60cc saw, it would be the one I would buy.


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## john damps

i ran the husky 455 rancher today that i bought yesterday cut 13-18 in locust, im not crazy about the choke-on off switch, little complacated and a little chinsy i better read owner manual or look at videos, i wish it had on-off switch with sepret choke,it runs good just a little faster than 450e, but nice and light,the 450 dosnt seem to get much chain oil, the 455 likes the chain oil, little concern about the 450,it seems like they may run a little hot on bar,


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## john damps

i dropped 6 maple and i 22inch ash for a guy today that 590 ran like a rocket, the home owner had a 460 husky,i let him try iw echo and he couldnt belive the difference, altlought im sure i charpen a lot bettor than him, but made short order of the 7 trees, made great fire wood,


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## mountainlake

Seems like about 99% that run a Echo saw like them, most that have never run one don't like them. Steve


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## zogger

mountainlake said:


> Seems like about 99% that run a Echo saw like them, most that have never run one don't like them. Steve



A 40-60-80 echo three saw plan would get the job done for most guys and not break the "new saw price" bank.


----------



## john damps

I HAVE A FE CS 40 [[DONT USE MUCH BUT GREAT LITTLE SAWS] BUT THE 590 IS the best saw for 400 bucks you can buy im telling you next year word gets out orerders double, and price will be 500


----------



## echoshawn

zogger said:


> A 40-60-80 echo three saw plan would get the job done for most guys and not break the "new saw price" bank.


I'm keeping my fingers crossed Echo might finally come out with a new bigger saw. 600P chassis with 80 cc's would be a winner in my book.


----------



## Milkman31

Where? Or who? Could I look to for some used parts for a cs-590 starter,bar cover.


----------



## john damps

echo dealer, there are a few in my area upstate ny,i dont know if it helps you or not' i bidding 3 excavating jobs if i get 1 or 2 maybe 3 im buying another 590 echo, i looked at the johnsred on line they are pro loger saw 2260 -2255 but every body tells me they are a husky whats the difference, besides for the money ill go with 5 year warrenty echo, but would add johnsred to my collection if they are worth more than husk 455-460


----------



## zogger

echoshawn said:


> I'm keeping my fingers crossed Echo might finally come out with a new bigger saw. 600P chassis with 80 cc's would be a winner in my book.



It would be awesome!


----------



## zogger

Milkman31 said:


> Where? Or who? Could I look to for some used parts for a cs-590 starter,bar cover.



That's a fairly new model, proly not too many used ones out there to scavenge parts from. Maybe off an older 600P? Check the IPLs and see if the part numbers match.

And do you mean the actual guide bar scabbard, or the clutch cover? Home despot should have replacement scabbards.


----------



## john damps

jdhacker said:


> You must have been a bad boy in 1978 to be golden gloves in 1978 at only 13 years old.


has started at 13 to 18,years old my uncle bruce damphier faught for light weight title of world against max roush west coloign germany he brroke my uncle colloer bone a nd uncle took him 12 rounds lost by desision,military champ.golden golves champ,fought in maddison garden , retiered and spawed for jersy joe wilcock, bobby stewert trained me 1 year than kenny house amsterdam ny, look it up all true,


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## Milkman31

zogger said:


> That's a fairly new model, proly not too many used ones out there to scavenge parts from. Maybe off an older 600P? Check the IPLs and see if the part numbers match.
> 
> And do you mean the actual guide bar scabbard, or the clutch cover? Home despot should have replacement scabbards.


Clutch cover.


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## Andyshine77

Ran my 590 this passed weekend and I was quite impressed with how it ran, plenty of power with a simple MM. I didn't have another 60cc saw to run it against, but it felt every bit as strong as my MS362, if not stronger with the mm. Quality is quite good, but the thing I like best is the simplicity of the overall design, it's extremely easy to work on. Why Stihl and Husky started making saws with integrated on off choke controls I'll never know.The only downside is the weight, feels more like a 70cc saw. IMHO it's the best value firewood saw out there right now. 

I honestly don't see any real reason for a firewood cutter to choose a 60cc Stihl or Husky over the Echo, well support may be a factor for some. 

Made a quick video of her first run.


----------



## Deleted member 83629

i still got 5 long years to MM mine hate to void the warante


----------



## john damps

to ANDDYSHINE77''; thats what i been trying to tell people i think they laugh at me its veeeeery smmmmoth isnt it, it is an all oround awasome saw, i made a mastake of compaaring it to power if my old 044 and one guy called me crazey, i did say it was apples to pizza because i have a nery long bar on the 044, but untill you run that 590 echo you just dont understand how substantial and fast it cuts,oh well im glad you love yours,i think they willrais price in a few months, did you get 18 or 20inch bar? john


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## mountainlake

jakewells said:


> i still got 5 long years to MM mine hate to void the warante



I'd modd it, if it ever needs warranty work just buy a used muff . Steve


----------



## jughead500

I modded mine not long ago.bought mine from ebay new pho.I do all my tuning and repairs to keep from losing time going to the dealer anyway.


----------



## john damps

tanks for the video, i dont know how to do them, i bought another 590 echo,i gave 100 deposite, will pick up in week or 2, theylisted the price at 449 with 20nch they sold it to me 399,90 it was 442 with tax, im afraid the popularitty will grow and price will go up if the stihl,husky, dolmar,ect, faithfull tried this saw [because i owne stihl huskys, some brand new] they would understand what were talkingabout, i liked your video, i dropped 4 trees and bucked them up 20 inch down to 14 hard maple,i cherry, in more impressed every time run the 590, i wonder why echo dont list horse power, i guees itsnot important,man my computor has a mind off its own, it juumps all over the place, keep the videos comming,


----------



## moody

Milkman31 said:


> Where? Or who? Could I look to for some used parts for a cs-590 starter,bar cover.



It's too new of a model to find many if any used parts

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## john damps

dont know they are a brand new saw''


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## Andyshine77

The CS-590 is really a 600p all the parts will interchange.

Here is a closeup look at the muffler, it should give everyone a general idea how I opened it up. Just removing the 90° turn in the deflector should help a little.


----------



## orange crush

Miles86 said:


> Howdy;
> 
> Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?
> 
> cs-590
> 
> cc: 59.8
> price: $450-460
> 
> cs-600P
> 
> 
> 
> cc:59.8
> price: $560-590 ??
> why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.
> 
> Echo claims the cs-590 timberwoof has more power than same size stihl and husqvarna?? They do not give the comparion models form Stihl - Husqvarna.??Ok they did on the pdf chart-stihl 290 stihl 291 and husqvarna 455 rancher, so that is the category for this saw.
> 
> See it here:
> Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA
> 
> I did do a search on this but I didn't get any results so if this is already been discussed sorry in advance, thanks again.
> 
> ps : I saw a husqvarna saw ad on TV this weekend and they pronouced husqvarna "hoosqvarna", is that right? :msp_confused:


----------



## orange crush

if that's your oleo-mac in the avaitar who cares about the echo! awesome saw very jealous you suck


----------



## zogger

Andyshine77 said:


> The CS-590 is really a 600p all the parts will interchange.
> 
> Here is a closeup look at the muffler, it should give everyone a general idea how I opened it up. Just removing the 90° turn in the deflector should help a little.




Looks easy enough!


----------



## echoshawn

zogger said:


> Looks easy enough!


I need to do the MM on my 600... Looks like it's an easy one.. I never intend to use my warranty.. Makes me wonder how I've made it thru 2 firewood seasons without doing it yet..

Oh, yeah.. It's my CAD... I have 10 other saws to choose from (that are runners anyway)..


----------



## Andyshine77

echoshawn said:


> I need to do the MM on my 600... Looks like it's an easy one.. I never intend to use my warranty.. Makes me wonder how I've made it thru 2 firewood seasons without doing it yet..
> 
> Oh, yeah.. It's my CAD... I have 10 other saws to choose from (that are runners anyway)..



I have around 20 saws now. Yes sir CAD is contagious.


----------



## RedFir Down

Andyshine77 said:


> The CS-590 is really a 600p all the parts will interchange.
> 
> Here is a closeup look at the muffler, it should give everyone a general idea how I opened it up. Just removing the 90° turn in the deflector should help a little.



Way to go with both of the video's, Very informative and helpful!! Thank you!


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## john damps

today i cut willow 30inch plus, had to cut both sides to get trough with 20 inch bar that 590 never burped cut like it was 15inches , hell the branches were over 20 inches, im telling you all this saw [in my opinion] is by far the best saw 400 bucks can buy bar non; its worth more than 400 it must be other saws have big mark ups. please if you get a chance run one,i have 3 loads to cut tommorow,the power band is very long never seems to bog down at all/


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## jdhacker

Glad you like your new saw, nothing like enjoying working with a piece of good equipment.


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## john damps

jdhacker;ya i really love next it; need a new computor,i can be typing my 50th word middle of page or even near the end , and look up and im typing over the 2nd sentence,its got a mind of its own, i have had this old dell from 2007 or 2008, i put my daughter got hers
threw 5 years of collage she still uses her dell.thats has to be 8 or 9 years old my sons didnt last as long played football at buffalo st, i may need a new computor, i think i told you i put a deposit down on another echo 590, i think the price will go up with popularity,i wish you would try one'


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## Andyshine77

I don't see the price on the 590 going up in the near future. Low cost is the whole point of the 590. Most people aren't going to walk into Home Depot and buy a 500/600 dollar saw, 400 is alot more attractive.


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## fordf150

I don't see the price going up either.They started out at $449 then they put them on sale for $399. New price is $399 list so i can't see them raising it back up


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## rmh3481

Good video Andre. How do you think the Echo would rate against a 362?


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## Andyshine77

rmh3481 said:


> Good video Andre. How do you think the Echo would rate against a 362?




Thanks.

I think it does quite well against the 362 at any price. The simplicity of it's construction has me sold, and it runs better than though. Yes it has more weight and bulk, but that's not an issue for the average firewood hack. 

I have another video on removing the limiters but my internet is down right now, I'm using my phone to post.


----------



## echoshawn

Andyshine77 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I think it does quite well against the 362 at any price. The simplicity of it's construction has me sold, and it runs better than though. Yes it has more weight and bulk, but that's not an issue for the average firewood hack.
> 
> I have another video on removing the limiters but my internet is down right now, I'm using my phone to post.


Can't wait to see that one. Haven't done mine on my 600 yet.. Don't want to mess things up


----------



## Deleted member 83629

Like to see the 590 ported and see what it would do. but it looks like a fast cutter in stock forum to me.
great saw by the features.


----------



## jughead500

Weight dont bother me.for a level comparison 10-10 mcculloch against the cs590/600.10-10 is even heavier, less cc and no anti vibration.oh ye of little faith.which would you rather run 8 to 12 hours a day?


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## zogger

jakewells said:


> Like to see the 590 ported and see what it would do. but it looks like a fast cutter in stock forum to me.
> great saw by the features.




There's some 600p examples on youtube. Same engine as the 590... here is one Brad did.


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## Andyshine77

I ran a few ported 600p's at a gtg a few years ago, and they were running right with ported 361's In timed cuts.


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## john damps

its funny nobody cares about warrenty they buy a chainsaw becuse they seen one on a loggers tv show and their brother inlay runs brand x, if it cuts a half second faster but has a 3o- day warrenty thats the one to buy, i own stihl-huskym old 272-262-268 and 2 new 450 and 455 but the echo has a 5 year warrenty and that means nothing to some people.i can get parts for caterpillar and john deere right away,try some of the off brands and your **** out of luck,[dont want an agument about heavy equipment parts -just making a refrence,if ford had the most power in a gas truck but only had 6 month warrenty becuse of bad tranny[for example you better buy the ford, chevy only has 100,000 mile power train warrenty but its 5 hrs power slower]


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## Philbert

I care about the warranty on my saws (and other stuff).

Philbert


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## john damps

philbert;; your a smart guy''


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## echoshawn

Only reason I'd truly care about the warranty is if it was my only saw, and I had no idea how to fix them myself.


----------



## john damps

i take mine to dealer, witch reminds me i have to pick up my old husky 61 ant charlie stahls in little falls he honed the cylinders and a bunch of other work to it, it would not idle and started by about the 20th pull, but it cut like hell when it ran,i think i bought it in 1989 -1990 not bad my bill is 140 bucks cash,


----------



## moody

Anyone who wants a 590 ported I'd be happy to cut you a deal. Pm me for details

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert

echoshawn said:


> Only reason I'd truly care about the warranty is if it was my only saw, and I had no idea how to fix them myself.



I want them to do the work if it involves splitting the case or special tools. I want them to pay for parts too.

Philbert


----------



## Andyshine77

OK there's the video on how I remove the limiter caps on the 590 and most Stihl saws. I already deleted the limiter before I made the video, but it should give everyone an idea on what to do, it's super easy.


----------



## Deleted member 83629

Great video Andy i really appreciate it since now i believe im going to tune my saw a little and open up the tiny muffler.


----------



## john damps

this peice of junk computor didnt let mme wathch whole video. did you take the red tubes out or just open them up with a screw, this computor died when watching a video, and jumps all over when trying to type [witch i suck at anyhow,]you make easy what does it do allow more feul and air to run faster, you know all my new huskys have pump bubbles for gas[i knoow it just reserulate the gas but the echo starfs on 1 to 3rd pull eveytime]


----------



## Deleted member 83629

He removed the limiter cap using a deck screw by threading it into them and pulling them out. Then he trimmed the nubs off the limited and reinstalled them so now they will turn a full 360 degrees.


----------



## Deleted member 83629

zogger said:


> There's some 600p examples on youtube. Same engine as the 590... here is one Brad did.



That saw hauls makes my little echo seem like a toy


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## john damps

JAKEWELLS ; THANKS, THAT SOUNDS EASY,


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## Deleted member 83629

Your welcome.


----------



## Tractorsaw1

You guys are making it had to resist these things. Several offerings on the bay under $400 right now.


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## jughead500

Yeap.thats one purchase I was glad I made.I just about pulled the trigger on a 620 piston and cylinder last night for studying.
Anyone know of a way to find out the differences between carbs? HDA-316 and HDA-268.all I can find is the throttle butterfly is the same size.


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## zogger

jakewells said:


> That saw hauls makes my little echo seem like a toy



Scrounge up a cs8000 and get it ported.


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## jughead500

I've been wanting to build a piped cs8000 since I saw that one on youtube.that thing is absolutely wicked.


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## MGlazier28

That is a sick echo!!! As in sick - good!


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## Andyshine77

The only difference between the cs590 and 600p that would potentially make the 600 run stronger is the carb. The 590 has an HDA-268A carb and the 600p has an HDA-268. Not sure if the A on the 590's carb means anything at all.


----------



## RedFir Down

Andyshine77 said:


> The only difference between the cs590 and 600p that would potentially make the 600 run stronger is the carb. The 590 has an HDA-268A carb and the 600p has an HDA-268. Not sure if the A on the 590's carb means anything at all.


Do you know why the part number for the P/C are different between the 590 to 600?
I was looking through some IPL's and noticed this.


----------



## jughead500

I looked the part numbers over a while back.if im not mistaken it wasjust an updated pary number OR the updated part its self between the early pre 2011 models or the later higher hp 2012 590/600.ill try to figure it out later.


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## jughead500

So far ive found that the differences between the 600p and 620p are the piston, cylinder, coil and crankshaft.im afraid that I wont be ordering the 620 p/c for inspection.I have a feeling that the crankshaft may be a longer stroke in the 620.may just be lighter throws on the crank.who knows.im thinking that the coil is possibly unlimited on the 620.both models use the same flywheel.


----------



## john damps

hey guys i would like your opinions on 3 saws im going for a new bigger saw, [i alredy have 272-268- 044 they are about 16-22 years old ] i love my new echo 590 i ordedred another but what i what is your desision between stihl ms 391 echo 680 and husky 570, please no other saws [efco-dolmar-solo ect, no dealers around here i dont want to hurt felling ]please dont get off subject just these 3 saws and maybe johnsred, please give your vote, i own husky-echo-stihl and have great repore with the dealers i deal with, the stihl 580 with 20inch echo 680 635 with 27inch,dont know the price of husky, i want a 24inch bar thanks guys,im waiting for your excperience input; will read all, just dont get talking about 75cc-88cc saws just the 3 i menchened and johnsred if you think they worth concidering i have a few johnsred dealers ,but dont want to buy 4 gas cans, i use echo oil in echo stihl in sthl and husky xp in husky, thanks a gain cant wait'''''


----------



## zogger

john damps said:


> hey guys i would like your opinions on 3 saws im going for a new bigger saw, [i alredy have 272-268- 044 they are about 16-22 years old ] i love my new echo 590 i ordedred another but what i what is your desision between stihl ms 391 echo 680 and husky 570, please no other saws [efco-dolmar-solo ect, no dealers around here i dont want to hurt felling ]please dont get off subject just these 3 saws and maybe johnsred, please give your vote, i own husky-echo-stihl and have great repore with the dealers i deal with, the stihl 580 with 20inch echo 680 635 with 27inch,dont know the price of husky, i want a 24inch bar thanks guys,im waiting for your excperience input; will read all, just dont get talking about 75cc-88cc saws just the 3 i menchened and johnsred if you think they worth concidering i have a few johnsred dealers ,but dont want to buy 4 gas cans, i use echo oil in echo stihl in sthl and husky xp in husky, thanks a gain cant wait'''''



I don't have any opinion worth a flip on those saws, but I will say you can use all the same mix in your saws and trimmers, etc. No need for different cans. JASO FD rated oil is plenty good enough for all of them.


Well..Ok, on the saws, just heft them some, see which one "feels" the best to you.


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## jdhacker

If your 044 is in good shape, and healthy, none of the saws you list will out cut it.


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## jughead500

yeah no reason for different mix.if the 391 is any thing like the 311 i would run the other way.when the 311 tears up it self destructs........ just about everything.


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## jdhacker

The 391 is a new saw, but to me it's the pig of that family. The 291 is the king of that line, for weight and power. Not cause I own one, I looked at both.


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## jughead500

Don't know they may be the Stuff if I ever ran one but the 290-390's just turned me against the stihl farm saws.the only ones I get along with are the 270-280.


----------



## jdhacker

Good piece of hickory


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## john damps

i guess you didnt undestand when i said my 044 is 20 years old just want a new saw 65cc class,the new ones are lighter and i want one,i said try not to get off subject, i have 455husky new 450 husky new 590 echo new 400 echo new, i want your opinion on the 3 i menchen,and or johnsred, not 291-044-372-now i cant find much on the husky 570 is that discontiued?


----------



## bootboy

jdhacker said:


> The 391 is a new saw, but to me it's the pig of that family. The 291 is the king of that line, for weight and power. Not cause I own one, I looked at both.


They're basically the same saw. But one has 8 more cc's. Why would the more powerful saw on the same platform be the pig?


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## jdhacker

It weighs 14.1lb vs 12.1 4.4hp vs 3.77


----------



## jdhacker

john damps said:


> i guess you didnt undestand when i said my 044 is 20 years old just want a new saw 65cc class,the new ones are lighter and i want one,i said try not to get off subject, i have 455husky new 450 husky new 590 echo new 400 echo new, i want your opinion on the 3 i menchen,and or johnsred, not 291-044-372-now i cant find much on the husky 570 is that discontiued?



I guess you don't know what you are talking about, the 044 is lighter and more powerful then any saw you listed. Have a good day, buy what ever saw you want.


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## john damps

what weights what, are they still making the husky 570?


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## john damps

jdhacker said:


> I guess you don't know what you are talking about, the 044 is lighter and more powerful then any saw you listed. Have a good day, buy what ever saw you want.


i know what im talking about i want a new saw i have an 044 dont need anotherif i replaced any of my old saws it would be the 272 and the 61 but jusst had charlie stahl go throught it, i also have 4 pick up trucks, and lookin at another 1 2010 half ton z71 chevy 2009 2500 6.0l 9.3boss v plow 2011 tahoe,and 1997 chevy s-10 4.3 v6 that runs great everyother dat someone ask me to sell to them,but its ext cab and get 22-24 miles to gallon,great to run around to check on jobs and bid work 50 -60 miles away,


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## john damps

SORRY I ASKED SOME PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO GET get off the topic to push there product,they like best. just forget i asked about the echo 680 husky 570 and stihl 391, I DONT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT OTHERS 40-50CC AND 70-80CC, I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THOSE 3 SAWS,I DONT CARE A CATERPILLAR D10 WILL PUSH MORE THAN MY D3 OR JOHN DEERE 450 lgp, ill do the reserch i was just loking for help from saw owners not arguments,


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## XSKIER

That's precious!


----------



## Andyshine77

RedFir Down said:


> Do you know why the part number for the P/C are different between the 590 to 600?
> I was looking through some IPL's and noticed this.



The last time I looked at he IPL's both top ends had the same part numbers. Echo may have updated the part numbers.


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## Andyshine77

I had a chance to compare my MM CS-590 vs a ported 361. The 361 in the video below has had quite a bit of work done to it, and has ran well against other ported 60cc saws in cant races and otherwise. The echo may be the best bang for the buck I've seen, when it comes to power per dollar spent.. I'd like to run it against a stock ms362 or even a 562xp. Now the Echo doesn't have the rpm's the other saws do out of the wood, but it seems to like a heavy hand, nice wide power band.

The 361 was constantly faster and both saws were tuned a bit rich. The Echo sounds more rich than it really is do to how the rpm's are limited. Both saws would gain a bit with a little tuning, but we're not talking big numbers. Not every cut was made to be as fast as possible, as I was testing the power bands as well as speed, same with the other operator. Both chains were fresh, but as you can see the bar lengths are different. This was not a scientific test. It is what it is.

The echo's fastest time. 4.88 slowest time 6.05
The Stihl. 3.76 and 4.93

In bigger wood the 361 would likely pull away. Nevertheless the Echo is quite impressive.


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## 7sleeper

As far as I know the Husqvarna 570 = RedMax GZ7000 = Zenoah GZ7000. So that might be an option for you if you can't get a Husqvarna 570 anymore locally.

7


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## mountainlake

A Echo CS 680 should out cut a MS391 by a bunch and has way more quality. a pro Husky around that cc should also be good. Steve


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## john damps

andyshine thank you nice job explaining stock vs mod,and staying onthe quiestion' mountainlake thank you for yor opinoin, that is just the type of info i was looking for and i do think they [husky] stoped the 570, looks like 365 70cc, also 700 bucks, but ill check with my dealer, 7 sleeper thank you for your info i think you correct, i want to keep it around 580 to 630 dollors, mountainlake thinks the echo walks over the 391, intresting,


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## jdhacker

The MS391 does not compare to the 680, as its a pro saw at almost 70cc


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## jdhacker

A 562xp is only 12.5lb or so, 4.7hp at 59.8cc


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## Deleted member 83629

i always heard the CS 8000 was a dog with out a muffler mod but don't hold it against me, yet again i hear this from people never ran one.
but im talking about the newer model also.


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## Deleted member 83629

Andyshine77 said:


> I had a chance to compare my MM CS-590 vs a ported 361. The 361 in the video below has had quite a bit of work done to it, and has ran well against other ported 60cc saws in cant races and otherwise. The echo may be the best bang for the buck I've seen, when it comes to power per dollar spent.. I'd like to run it against a stock ms362 or even a 562xp. Now the Echo doesn't have the rpm's the other saws do out of the wood, but it seems to like a heavy hand, nice wide power band.
> 
> The 361 was constantly faster and both saws were tuned a bit rich. The Echo sounds more rich than it really is do to how the rpm's are limited. Both saws would gain a bit with a little tuning, but we're not talking big numbers. Not every cut was made to be as fast as possible, as I was testing the power bands as well as speed, same with the other operator. Both chains were fresh, but as you can see the bar lengths are different. This was not a scientific test. It is what it is.
> 
> The echo's fastest time. 4.88 slowest time 6.05
> The Stihl. 3.76 and 4.93
> 
> In bigger wood the 361 would likely pull away. Nevertheless the Echo is quite impressive.




Port the 590 i dare yee


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## echoshawn

Here's the test I'd love to see. Stock, off the shelf 591900, ms311, & 460 rancher running whatever 20" b&c they come stock with, set up by their respective dealers. No tweaks, no mods, just how the average joe would buy and run them. Go head to head.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## echoshawn

Oops, 590 that is. My phone got me there

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Andyshine77

echoshawn said:


> Here's the test I'd love to see. Stock, off the shelf 591900, ms311, & 460 rancher running whatever 20" b&c they come stock with, set up by their respective dealers. No tweaks, no mods, just how the average joe would buy and run them. Go head to head.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk




I don't see a 460 or 311 coming close to the Echo. It not only feels like a bigger saw, it runs like one.


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## Andyshine77

jakewells said:


> Port the 590 i dare yee




I intend to.


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## 7sleeper

Pretty impressive what a homeowner saw can do! Thanks for the video!

7


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## mountainlake

echoshawn said:


> Here's the test I'd love to see. Stock, off the shelf 591900, ms311, & 460 rancher running whatever 20" b&c they come stock with, set up by their respective dealers. No tweaks, no mods, just how the average joe would buy and run them. Go head to head.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk



The trouble is Echo saws come with a real cogged up muff and make huge gains just modding the muff and tuning, let them all have muff modds. Steve


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## echoshawn

I'm interested in doing a multiple part test...
Dead stock (including bar and chain.. just how it comes off the shelf)
MM and tune. 
Finally upgraded chain.
I have no doubt the echo is better out of the box than the other 2, it'd just be nice to see a true side by side comparison to shut down a few detractors. 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## zogger

mountainlake said:


> The trouble is Echo saws come with a real cogged up muff and make huge gains just modding the muff and tuning, let them all have muff modds. Steve



I like stock at first, for the first test, full retail out the door price with average cut time. You can get a dollars per cut figure then for comparison.

Then muff mod, then ported. Last two tests, just the cut times I guess.


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## Andyshine77

echoshawn said:


> I'm interested in doing a multiple part test...
> Dead stock (including bar and chain.. just how it comes off the shelf)
> MM and tune.
> Finally upgraded chain.
> I have no doubt the echo is better out of the box than the other 2, it'd just be nice to see a true side by side comparison to shut down a few detractors.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk




I hear you. I've been around here long enough to know there will always be detractors. The test was more for people here than the average Joe. If someone has all three saws, I'd be interested in the results, but for me I always do some work to a saw so it's not my ballgame.


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## echoshawn

Andyshine77 said:


> I hear you. I've been around here long enough to know there will always be detractors. The test was more for people here than the average Joe. If someone has all three saws, I'd be interested in the results, but for me I always do some work to a saw so it's not my ballgame.


I can relate. 
I know I stumbled onto this site searching for info on a new saw originally. I can bet that plenty of homeowners/firewood guys browse on here looking for info on a good, off the shelf saw.
Might turn into our own AS public service. 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## john damps

echoshawn said:


> I can relate.
> I know I stumbled onto this site searching for info on a new saw originally. I can bet that plenty of homeowners/firewood guys browse on here looking for info on a good, off the shelf saw.
> Might turn into our own AS public service.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


----------



## john damps




----------



## john damps




----------



## Tractorsaw1

To me you can pretty much pick these 590's up off the bay with no tax under $400, it may not win every cant race but it will surely put wood in the truck with a bigger smile on your face than your neighbors "Farmboss" Ha ha


----------



## john damps

boy i put my little husky 455 to hard work today, i took 3 hours sherping 4 saws sunsay to cut today the 455 only has a very little left, took rakersdown on all 4 also ,anthow the fallen ash was all of 18-20 inch, and down for about 3 years it waas on side of rocky hill 4 big trees in all , i didnt want to hit a rock with the chain on the echo 590 but cut 7-8 peices,just barried the blad,it went thew awsome huge chips flying out, than i noticed rocks comming up so i switch to the husky 455 with the final end of chain, i ended up burning 2 tanks of gas cut over i full cord and was impessed how it performed, they are a good buy, the quality isnt like the 590 echo and vibrates it remindes me of my uncle old 225 timbrjack with 353 ran loud ran hard always started but little underpowered, the husky isnt underpowerd, i would mind trying a 460 but the 590 echo for 399.99 is a better deal, but that little husky earned my respect today, back at it tommorow, cant wait for excavating season to kick in imstarting to get calls, anyhow the 455 is a good buy, with 20inch bar,


----------



## Tractorsaw1

official bull riders saw!


----------



## jughead500

Tougher than.......... stihl.


----------



## Husqavarna Guy

john damps said:


> boy i put my little husky 455 to hard work today, i took 3 hours sherping 4 saws sunsay to cut today the 455 only has a very little left, took rakersdown on all 4 also ,anthow the fallen ash was all of 18-20 inch, and down for about 3 years it waas on side of rocky hill 4 big trees in all , i didnt want to hit a rock with the chain on the echo 590 but cut 7-8 peices,just barried the blad,it went thew awsome huge chips flying out, than i noticed rocks comming up so i switch to the husky 455 with the final end of chain, i ended up burning 2 tanks of gas cut over i full cord and was impessed how it performed, they are a good buy, the quality isnt like the 590 echo and vibrates it remindes me of my uncle old 225 timbrjack with 353 ran loud ran hard always started but little underpowered, the husky isnt underpowerd, i would mind trying a 460 but the 590 echo for 399.99 is a better deal, but that little husky earned my respect today, back at it tommorow, cant wait for excavating season to kick in imstarting to get calls, anyhow the 455 is a good buy, with 20inch bar,


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## jughead500

Done been through a 455 Rancher.good saw but didnt impress me much.the 55 is a good saw too but the meteor cylinder kit is much better still nothing on the 590/600.of course were talkin +4 cc


----------



## Husqavarna Guy

Hey John are you saying the 455 vibrates more than the 590?


----------



## Andyshine77

john damps said:


> boy i put my little husky 455 to hard work today, i took 3 hours sherping 4 saws sunsay to cut today the 455 only has a very little left, took rakersdown on all 4 also ,anthow the fallen ash was all of 18-20 inch, and down for about 3 years it waas on side of rocky hill 4 big trees in all , i didnt want to hit a rock with the chain on the echo 590 but cut 7-8 peices,just barried the blad,it went thew awsome huge chips flying out, than i noticed rocks comming up so i switch to the husky 455 with the final end of chain, i ended up burning 2 tanks of gas cut over i full cord and was impessed how it performed, they are a good buy, the quality isnt like the 590 echo and vibrates it remindes me of my uncle old 225 timbrjack with 353 ran loud ran hard always started but little underpowered, the husky isnt underpowerd, i would mind trying a 460 but the 590 echo for 399.99 is a better deal, but that little husky earned my respect today, back at it tommorow, cant wait for excavating season to kick in imstarting to get calls, anyhow the 455 is a good buy, with 20inch bar,




Well okay then.


----------



## john damps

oh ya, that 590 is smooth but that 455 cuts fine,and nice and light, the echo is just more smother,i geuss thats the word,


----------



## Andyshine77

And sometimes this site seems to be getting dumb and dumberer. Don't mind me I'm just grumpy sometimes.


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## john damps

my computor jumps all over the place, my uncle old timberjack had a 353 detroit in it,back in the 70s it was great, i use my john deere 700lgp,but only on my own wood lot clearing tornado blow downs, we still have 4 feet of snow in bleecker mnt, ny, i dont even have a winch i back to the logs push the blade down witch raises my draw bar i have a home made Y BAR thats 4-5 inches on top of draw bar chain and cable the logs raise the blad up and logs come up about 4-6 inch, off ground and skid like that, i dont own a skidder,i will buy an older small dozer this year for woods my 700lgp is 2010 dont want to beat it up in woods also have 2009 450lgp and 2004 cat d3with 2k hrs im going to trade my 07 650 john deere for a komatsu ex39 soon the 650 deere is 90 plus hrs power but dosnt put power to ground, i tried the komatsu and in trading, anyhow i may buy an old 550-650 case for my logging product a 95-2000, can be had for 16000-25000,my 700lgp had 410 hrs and paid 145,000 not what i want to beat up in woods,


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## john damps

ya you cant fix dumb;cant put there what ant there'


----------



## Philbert

Tractorsaw1 said:


> official bull riders saw!



I never understand this kind of advertising. If the rodeo guy was selling me a saddle, or boots, or even his hat: OK. But why would I trust his endorsement or opinion on a chainsaw, versus a lumberjack, or arborist, or wild land fire fighter, or countless others? Whole different kind of bucking and falling.

Philbert


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## john damps

i dont understand the rodeo dude either,maybe their tough so the saw must be tough, best guess, i agree with you;


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## jughead500

Gotta cut stuff for corrals.590............ farm and ranch.


----------



## Andyshine77

To be honest I've likely sold more CS-590's for Echo than that dude ever will. Ahahahaha.


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## john damps

I JUST WENT THROUGH HUQUVARNA WEB SIT THE HAVE 9 SAWS THAT ARE 50CC-55CC, AND ABUNCH THAT WERE 59CC ILL COUNT THEM TOMMOROW TO TIRED GO TOT GET TO BED, I STILL HAVE WOOD ORDERS FOR TOMMOROW AND NEXT DAY,I HAVE TO START DOING EXCAVATINGMDET AWAY FROM THE WOOD,


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## Andyshine77

john damps said:


> I JUST WENT THROUGH HUQUVARNA WEB SIT THE HAVE 9 SAWS THAT ARE 50CC-55CC, AND ABUNCH THAT WERE 59CC ILL COUNT THEM TOMMOROW TO TIRED GO TOT GET TO BED, I STILL HAVE WOOD ORDERS FOR TOMMOROW AND NEXT DAY,I HAVE TO START DOING EXCAVATINGMDET AWAY FROM THE WOOD,



OK who are you? For somer reasonn I think you gust here to havee somer fun.


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## john damps

cant uderstand question, go on husquvarna web site and look at all the saws, they have 9 tottal 50-55cc .just saying thats all; who are you the only one that can put up a post, gotta go, ill try to stay off,just keep working supporting ny welfare state, i have 9 employees that all have familys that cont on my hard working excavating company, just like to go on at night to find good ideas about saws, not from you,


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## Miles86

orange crush said:


> if that's your oleo-mac in the avaitar who cares about the echo! awesome saw very jealous you suck


I'm not the owner, unfortunately. I have held one in a saw shop while in Eastern Europe with my girlfriend, very heavy and solid. She said it was pretty

Quality -finish -design all top notch.


----------



## hoskvarna

hey moody what kinda deal on a 600p to port?


----------



## bag-o-donuts

My 600 p was a good running saw. My dad badgered me relentlessly to buy a Stihl but at the time I couldn't quite swing a pro grade saw in that line so I got the Echo. The 600 unquestionably beat my dad's ms311 in head to head cutting, both with ~24" bars and fresh Oregon square chain, same log. I know that the ms 311 isn't a pro saw, and it's been really reliable for my dad, but it was satisfying to have my choice of saw vindicated in that instance. However, I do think that the 555 Husqy that replaced the 600 after it was stolen was even better cutting. Never got to run them side by side obviously, but within a couple weeks of each other. I do wonder about the 620 though...


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## zogger

bag-o-donuts said:


> My 600 p was a good running saw. My dad badgered me relentlessly to buy a Stihl but at the time I couldn't quite swing a pro grade saw in that line so I got the Echo. The 600 unquestionably beat my dad's ms311 in head to head cutting, both with ~24" bars and fresh Oregon square chain, same log. I know that the ms 311 isn't a pro saw, and it's been really reliable for my dad, but it was satisfying to have my choice of saw vindicated in that instance. However, I do think that the 555 Husqy that replaced the 600 after it was stolen was even better cutting. Never got to run them side by side obviously, but within a couple weeks of each other. I do wonder about the 620 though...



For close money...not the same but close....you have a choice, stock husky or stihl, or echo and get it ported right off the bat.


----------



## bag-o-donuts

I'm only saying that I had a positive experience with the the 600 p. I'm not sure I'd buy another one, because I'm not really comfortable with my local Echo shop, but the 620 p might well tempt me. Just wish I could handle/run one first. I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from any of the other saw shops around here either so maybe it's just me.


----------



## mountainlake

You need to watch this vid  The Echo is just muff modded, the 361 ported. Steve


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## john damps

SAVE YOUR MONEY BUY THE 590, I HAVE 2 9 OTHER SAWS; everybody gets off the subject and start comparing 650-700 dollors saws plain and simple i own the huskys; stills, that are 55-66 cc THE ECHO 399,99 AND HAS 5 YEAR WARENTY, BEST UY ON THE MARKET . MY HUMBLE OPINION,


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## bag-o-donuts

That 5 year warranty was part of my reasoning in buying my 600. But, warranty might or might not do you a lot of good on a saw that you have to modify to get it to run the way it ought to, e.g. pulling limiter caps. That's what I took away from a couple of conversations I had with the owner of the local Echo shop. He wouldn't even acknowledge a possibility that optimal tuning couldn't be achieved with the caps in place, and kept trying to steer the conversation toward bad gas and how people mistake bad fuel for mixture issues. I walked away feeling that if I had a problem with my saw I'd be on my own since the caps had been pulled. Point is, buy the saw you like from someone you can trust, if you're fortunate enough to find such an individual.


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## john damps

there ALL that way, you think husky or stihl will honer a warrenty on a moddified saw; I DONT THINK SO, tractor suply stopped my warrent on a month old lawn mower becuse i change the spark plug come mod your HUSKY AND TAKE TO THE DEALER ------GOOD LUCK, ONCE AGAIN OFF THE SUBJECT, MY HUSKY MUFFLER BURN THE TREES WHEN FELLING BECUSE THE WAY THERE MOUNTED,NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT, KEEP MODDIFIYING TILL YOU BLOW ONE UP, ANY MAKE, GOOD LUCK, I HAD MY DOZER KNOCK A TREE DOWN ON MY 590 ECHO,I TOLD THEM THE TRUTH THEY MAILED ME THE PARTS AND WRENCHES IN 3 DAYS, WERE TALKING ABOUT MONEY WELL SPENT, I USED TO RUN 1000CC THUNDER CAT, EVERYBODY WITH A 600 WANTED TO RACE AFTER 115MPH MY SKIS WERE JUST TOUCHING THE GROUND, GOOD BY MOD, 600 CC, I WAS STOCK 135 ON SACANDAGA LAKE, TRY IT, THE MANUFACTURE SPENDS MILLIONS ON RESERCH HAVE FAITH, OR BORE EM MODIFY THEM AND THEY RUN FASTER, BUT SORRY NO WARENTY, COME ON COMONSENCE,


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## bag-o-donuts

Not at all suggesting that this sort of thing is limited to Echo dealers, just relaying an experience I had, to underline the point I've seen made here by many, that the dealer is as important as the product. I'm not bashing Echo by any means.


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## SawTroll

A lot of BS going on here. I don't really want to jump into this discussion because of the sad level it is at - I never ever would want to buy one of those Echo saws anyway, they simply aren't on the same planet as the good 60cc saws.
As an alternative to plastic cased clamshell saws like the MS311 they may be relevant though.


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## echoshawn

Niko, until you run an Echo with your own hands, I think you really should stay out of any thread Echo related. I may have engaged in poulan bashing in the past, and now have more old counter-vibes than echos in my stable. I will say though, my 600p is always my go to saw. My 3700 is a close second. 
The 590, IMO, is a superior product in the large homeowner class to the 311 or 460 rancher, and a much better value. If you step up to big dollar saws, it may be outclassed somewhat, but that being said, I'll always prefer Echo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RedFir Down

echoshawn said:


> Niko, until you run an Echo with your own hands, I think you really should stay out of any thread Echo related. I may have engaged in poulan bashing in the past, and now have more old counter-vibes than echos in my stable. I will say though, my 600p is always my go to saw. My 3700 is a close second.
> The 590, IMO, is a superior product in the large homeowner class to the 311 or 460 rancher, and a much better value. If you step up to big dollar saws, it may be outclassed somewhat, but that being said, I'll always prefer Echo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So how would you personally compare your 600P to the 590 power wise?
I have looked into this a few times and never really came up with the same conclusion from all my findings because when I look up the 600p & 590 IPl's they have a different part number for the piston and cylinders, so im assuming they are different. I have heard it said they are the same P/C with an "updated" part number.
So im a little confused about the matter.


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## SawTroll

echoshawn said:


> Niko, until you run an Echo with your own hands, I think you really should stay out of any thread Echo related. I may have engaged in poulan bashing in the past, and now have more old counter-vibes than echos in my stable. I will say though, my 600p is always my go to saw. My 3700 is a close second.
> The 590, IMO, is a superior product in the large homeowner class to the 311 or 460 rancher, and a much better value. If you step up to big dollar saws, it may be outclassed somewhat, but that being said, I'll always prefer Echo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




One problem is that Echo don't post power specs in the US, and the reason is simple - they are so low that it would be bad for marketing. Either they don't know how to port and carburett a two-cycle engine properly, or they simply don't respect their costumers enough to do so. Nothing else is great about the saws either, except that you may get a mag cased saw for plastic cased price.

It may have helped a little that they "absorbed" Shindaiwa though, but merging a bad brand with a just slightly better one only helps that much. I understand the Echo 620 mainly is a Shindaiwa design, and it surely shows some improvement, even though it still is too heavy, and lack a little power compared to the better saws in the 60cc class.

The 590 isn't the 620 though!


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## echoshawn

I don't sit and study the ipl's, and I've never run a 590. My 600 is the gen2 version with the aluminum bar, not plastic. To be honest, I couldn't give a damn what the "power" rating is. All I care us how it feels in my hands and cuts wood. Period.
Once again, I'm just going to bow out to the obviously superior knowledge of someone who hasn't even run the damn saw. 
Plenty of people are loyal customers who love their Echo equipment. I'm one.
Back to the poulan thread for me.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RedFir Down

echoshawn said:


> I don't sit and study the ipl's, and I've never run a 590. My 600 is the gen2 version with the aluminum bar, not plastic. To be honest, I couldn't give a damn what the "power" rating is. All I care us how it feels in my hands and cuts wood. Period.
> Once again, I'm just going to bow out to the obviously superior knowledge of someone who hasn't even run the damn saw.
> Plenty of people are loyal customers who love their Echo equipment. I'm one.
> Back to the poulan thread for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fair enough. Im sorry I misread your previous post, I thought you had both saws.

Oh yeah that loose lip troll talking about echo's does get old in a hurry! Maybe he's going for a high post count or something... I dont know.


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## bag-o-donuts

I don't want to overstep boundaries being new here and all, but to me (and I've been reading his posts for a couple of years) it seems that ST is actually lightening up a little bit on Echo products. Used to be he said stuff like "pest or cholera" at any mention of Echo... just sayin'...


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## RedFir Down

Dont get me wrong, I value the troll here on the site. He brings alot to the table! 
Its just gets old when he sounds like a broken record stating his opinion about something he doesnt agree with, thats all.


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## mountainlake

I'm going to send Troll some glasses so he can watch some of the vids where Echo saws cut good. No way can he watch them and make comments like he does. Steve


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## wyk

mountainlake said:


> You need to watch this vid  The Echo is just muff modded, the 361 ported. Steve




Is that 361 not running a 24" bar? How does the Echo do with a 24" bar? The last cut is telling, the 361 is gliding through that wood, with more bar and chain than the Echo, much more strongly.


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## mountainlake

Keep in mind the 361 is ported, the Echo is just muff modded. Anyone on here that thinks that Echo doesn't cut good? Steve


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## wyk

It's the apple and oranges thing. It's difficult to gauge how well it cuts when you have two very different set ups. It makes it seem like you are trying to make the Echo look good. If you like, I can post up a vid of my ported 361 in similar wood with a more similar B&C set up?



How does that Echo look now? And this is coming from someone whom has an Echo and has used them professionally. I like them, but your vid is a touch misleading.

Speaking of misleading, I forgot to add that set up is an 18" bar, rakers set for bucking at .050, and with an 8 pin rim, and mostly buried in that yellow cedar which is a bit tougher than what appears to be Douglas Fir in your vid(or maybe a Hemlock that appears dark due to the lighting?). So the 361 is holding more revs than your 600p could, pulling twice as much wood out per cutter.


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## mountainlake

(pulling twice as much wood out per cutter).If that 361 was pulling more wood per cutter with higher chain speed it would be cutting way faster than the Echo, it isn't That's not my vid, I'd guess the Echo is pulling way more wood per cutter as it's turning slower and cutting really close to the ported 361. Every Echo saw I have cuts good cc too cc with Stihl and Huskys best saws but they all need a muff modd, as they come they are at best average with their clogged up muffs and lean tuning. Your vid above proves nothing, we need side by side cutting like the vid I put up. Steve


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## wyk

mountainlake said:


> (pulling twice as much wood out per cutter).If that 361 was pulling more wood per cutter with higher chain speed it would be cutting way faster than the Echo, it isn't That's not my vid, I'd guess the Echo is pulling way more wood per cutter as it's turning slower and cutting really close to the ported 361. Every Echo saw I have cuts good cc too cc with Stihl and Huskys best saws but they all need a muff modd, as they come they are at best average with their clogged up muffs and lean tuning. Your vid above proves nothing, we need side by side cutting like the vid I put up. Steve



Steve, you put up a vid of a ported 361 cutting faster than an Echo, with more bar and chain. How are we supposed to be impressed? How are you impressed?


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## wyk

mountainlake said:


> Keep in mind the 361 is ported, the Echo is just muff modded. Anyone on here that thinks that Echo doesn't cut good? Steve



I'll also keep in mind that is a very small piece of wood that appears to be rotten. That video tells us nothing aside form the fact the Stihl is faster, and doing it with more bar and chain, in rotten wood.


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## mountainlake

They are both cutting the same wood a real close to the same speed, take off you orange and white glasses. The extra length on the bar doesn't matter that much UNLESS it's buried in a big log. I'll repeat they are both cutting the same wood. Steve


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## jdvsn83

Chris-PA said:


> Not remotely interested now that I know what it is. There are plenty of good saws on the market, if I was in the market I wouldn't buy that. I like clean air.



If you like clean air, don't fell trees... We are thinking about 10% less emissions at the time we're killing a tree capable to clean large amounts of air...

I like Echos and their simplicity.


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## BTY

SawTroll said:


> One problem is that Echo don't post power specs in the US, and the reason is simple - they are so low that it would be bad for marketing. Either they don't know how to port and carburett a two-cycle engine properly, or they simply don't respect their costumers enough to do so.



A more likely and less biased reason that Echo doesn't post power numbers in the US is so they can't get sued by scumbag lawyers (that could be funded by competitors) that are out to make money off pointless class action lawsuits.

A lack of a standardized power measurement system for small engines and power equipment has left an open door for needless lawsuits in the US.

Many other small engine and power equipment companies (Honda, Briggs, etc.) no longer post power ratings for many or all of their products in the US for the same reason. 

Echo still posts power ratings for their equipment elsewhere in the world. It's not hard to convert kW to HP.


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## mountainlake

The fact is posted HP numbers mean nothing, it's how good they cut. Like any of my CS510, 520 or 530 Echo saws cut WAY faster than a 3.8 hp MS290 or 029 Stihl. Does that mean they have 4.2 hp or does it mean the Stihls hp numbers are bs. Steve


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## Chris-PA

jdvsn83 said:


> If you like clean air, don't fell trees... We are thinking about 10% less emissions at the time we're killing a tree capable to clean large amounts of air...
> 
> I like Echos and their simplicity.


I rarely fell trees, only ones that are a hazard, dead, damaged or a problem of some sort. Burning wood (mostly deadfall like the white oak I'm cutting today) replaced the heating oil we used to use. 

But that was a distraction for the point I had made - a saw that lacks strato or a feedback carb cannot run as clean or be as efficient as one that has these technologies. Yesterday's tech, sold cheap.


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## mountainlake

If trees are left to rot they put co2 back in the air, may as well burn them and get some heat while saving oil. Steve


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## SawTroll

BTY said:


> ....
> 
> Echo still posts power ratings for their equipment elsewhere in the world. It's not hard to convert kW to HP.



Yes they do - that's why I know how low the ratings mostly are.


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## mountainlake

And yet they cut good vs Stihl and Huskys best saws. Rated HP is what the manufacture puts on a saw. Steve


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## jughead500

The epa chokes down what the manufacturers make.we all know that.echo is probably measuring hp on overseas models and guessing at hp ratings with the epa approved muffler and bs installed.


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## rmh3481

""yesterday's tech, sold cheap""
Intersting that Echo can pass the EPA regs without the smoke and mirrors of stratocharging and feedback carbs...


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## echoshawn

Notice how the us *** manufacturers are using torque instead of hp for their ratings now? I think it's a better rating to use anyway. If there were a uniform standardized way to measure net power on saws (off the shelf with all emissions controls, air cleaner, etc) I bet the numbers would be a helluva lot closer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zogger

SawTroll said:


> Yes they do - that's why I know how low the ratings mostly are.



Horsepower is marketing, torque gets stuff done...

I really couldn't tell ya what a single saw I have horsepower rating is...I have probably read some of them off spec pages, but promptly forgotten them. The bigger the saw the mo powah it haz....

I know once you get into ported saws, and who/what/when/where how it was ported, etc, perceived and actual power can vary greatly, but....it's sorta silly, too. Any modern type saw of X-displacement will cut within it's design/size parameters, they are all going to be close, so it gets down to how much loot ya got to spend on your saws, what color plastics you like, etc. At the end of the day, just talking firewood, saw time is the least amount of time involved in the total processing of the wood, from standing tree to split wood inj the stacks. all the other steps are way more important and usually way more expensive, trucks/tractor4s/splitters, other assorted wood wrangling equipment. You might spend an extra five minutes cutting with some whizzbang hotrod saw compared to a similar sized stock saw. Whoopedy zingaroo there. 

For most of us who cut just for ourselves, smallish quantities per year....factory OEM hotrod or aftermarket hotrodded saws are just cheap thrills, funzies. I got some, fun! Do I absolutely need them? Nope...Will a lb or two in my hands matter during an afternoon firewooding session? Nope....The blocks of wood off the trunk are WAY heavier usually, ha!

Anyone's 60 cc saw is gonna fill up the back of a pickup pretty quickly, any brand, stock or modded..


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## hoskvarna

I think u hit the nail on the head. I agree totally 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## rmh3481

<<Notice how the us *** manufacturers are using torque instead of hp for their ratings now?>>
It surely has a little to do with the B&S/Tecumseh Lawsuit. 
http://classactionlawsuitsinthenews...d-stratton-class-action-settlement-announced/


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## jughead500

German shindaiwa 600 sx hp figures are at 4.52 ps which is 4.52 hp.that is not much less than the 4.7hp posted for the stihl 362 or husky 562xp.who is going to notice .18hp? Of course im talkin muffler mod on the 590/600 in the usa.anyone from germany fill us in on any emissions restrictions?


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## Chris-PA

rmh3481 said:


> ""yesterday's tech, sold cheap""
> Intersting that Echo can pass the EPA regs without the smoke and mirrors of stratocharging and feedback carbs...


Yeah, that stuff probably doesn't really do anything to reduce emissions and improve efficiency and performance - the Echo engineers are much smarter than the guys at Zenoah, Husqvarna and Stihl. 

Passing the limits is one thing, but how you do it and what compromises are required make a difference. All the manufacturers did the limiter cap, compromised porting and plugged up muffler thing initially, but some of them have now developed more effective technologies to address the fundamental problems. They can meet the limits while improving performance. Others are still slapping on Band-Aids because they failed to make the investment in product development.


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## echoshawn

Chris-PA said:


> Yeah, that stuff probably doesn't really do anything to reduce emissions and improve efficiency and performance - the Echo engineers are much smarter than the guys at Zenoah, Husqvarna and Stihl.
> 
> Passing the limits is one thing, but how you do it and what compromises are required make a difference. All the manufacturers did the limiter cap, compromised porting and plugged up muffler thing initially, but some of them have now developed more effective technologies to address the fundamental problems. They can meet the limits while improving performance. Others are still slapping on Band-Aids because they failed to make the investment in product development.


Right, because the latest, greatest technology is always the most efficient.
My old 89 tercel averaged 40+ mpg on the highway running 70mph.
My 97 ram cummins using the minimum number of valves and mechanical injection technology averages 20+ mpg all day long, and isn't lacking in the power department.
Point being, maybe the Echo engineers refined the existing technology to the point where power is perfectly adequate, emissions meet standards, and the consumer gets the benefit of the lower price.
Being on the cutting edge is not always the best place to be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris-PA

echoshawn said:


> Right, because the latest, greatest technology is always the most efficient.
> My old 89 tercel averaged 40+ mpg on the highway running 70mph.
> My 97 ram cummins using the minimum number of valves and mechanical injection technology averages 20+ mpg all day long, and isn't lacking in the power department.
> Point being, maybe the Echo engineers refined the existing technology to the point where power is perfectly adequate, emissions meet standards, and the consumer gets the benefit of the lower price.
> Being on the cutting edge is not always the best place to be
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I ran my 10 year old strato engined GZ4000 clone a lot this weekend. It's not cutting edge, it's been on the market for a decade. The feedback carbs are of course more recent. Hey look, you can cut wood with the Echo just as well as you could with a similar saw of similar technology 20 years ago. It's probably well made like most Echos, and if the lean mixture doesn't kill it it should last a long while. Just be realistic as to why it is being sold cheap.


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## jughead500

I guess echo is havin a hoot a watchin us Quarrel like teenagers.lol maybe the epa gave them credits to make the two stroke Junkies quarrel amongst themselves.


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## echoshawn

Just makes me remember why I fell out of this forum for a while. Plenty of "experts" who love to stir the pot.... And stupid me, I take the bait.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jughead500

OK guys i'm gonna let you all worry about all 21 Pages of this.I got to go saw logs.


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## hoskvarna

jughead500 said:


> OK guys i'm gonna let you all worry about all 21 Pages of this.I got to go saw logs.


In the dark???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## jughead500

hoskvarna said:


> In the dark???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


You damn tootin'.I'm too tired to argue hp figures right now.lol


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## jughead500

Dont know if trolls lookin to usa hp figures or what? BUT if you take outall of the restrctions Iin the 500/600 then the ratings are .18 hp behind the others.


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## mountainlake

HP ratings are BS big time, look at how they cut side by side. If someone can explain why the 3.8 hp MS290 cuts right with the 3.2 hp MS260 I might change my mind. I saw one of those gutless MS290 saws on a saw job on Saturday, pathetic for 56cc. The fact is the high fabricated HP numbers sells saws to the uninformed . Steve


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## Ronaldo

mountainlake said:


> HP ratings are BS big time, look at how they cut side by side. If someone can explain why the 3.8 hp MS290 cuts right with the 3.2 hp MS260 I might change my mind. I saw one of those gutless MS290 saws on a saw job on Saturday, pathetic for 56cc. The fact is the high fabricated HP numbers sells saws to the uninformed . Steve


Gotta agree with you on the ms290's, not much to be liking there.


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## Chris-PA

I agree that advertised HP isn't worth much - there isn't really any truth in advertising. In fact I'm inclined to like Echo equipment, as I have some old stuff that still works well. To me it is a matter of how they address the two main sources of emissions (primarily unburned fuel in the exhaust) on chainsaws: scavenging losses and poor carb mixture control.

For the first, the problem is simply that the exhaust port is open while fuel mix is flowing into the cylinder. It turns out that quad transfers (and now apparently a branched "Y" transfer) are better at directing the flow away from the exhaust port. But this has been done for years, and still requires other port timing modifications that are not optimal for performance. Strato is mechanically simple, directly addresses the problem by delaying the arrival of fuel to the cylinder, and allows port timing that improves performance. So which is the better solution? 

As for the second, chainsaw carbs can only produce a correct mixture at one point - under max load at WOT. Everywhere else they are rich, and often so rich the engine misfires. You can tweak it a little by using an accelerator pump so the idle does not have to be rich, but that is just idle. All you can do for the main circuit is set it as lean as you dare under load. Unless of course you had a carb that produced the correct mixture.....

The best solutions have been developed but they are both owned by Husqvarna, which leaves the others to either pay to use them, try to come up with something better or soldier on with the old approaches. Echo is doing the latter, and that is not appealing to me other than for the price.


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## blsnelling

The 600P is one of the most anemic 60cc saws as they come from the factory. However, they respond VERY well to mods. It doesn't take much to make them start coming around. They're actually quite impressive ported.


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## mountainlake

Any Echo saw is unimpressive as they come, they need both tuning and a muff which might take 20 minutes. Steve


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## hoskvarna

mountainlake said:


> Any Echo saw is unimpressive as they come, they need both tuning and a muff which might take 20 minutes. Steve


muff modded and limiter caps,richin up my cs600p.
big difference!


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## hoskvarna

. Used the 600 and ht101 pole saw for some storm clean up this mornin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## jughead500

Dont know what I would do without my ht131 and ht100.


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## hoskvarna

jughead500 said:


> Dont know what I would do without my ht131 and ht100.


pretty handy arent they


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## jughead500

yeap sure are.especially in storm cleanup.


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## wyk

mountainlake said:


> They are both cutting the same wood a real close to the same speed, take off you orange and white glasses. The extra length on the bar doesn't matter that much UNLESS it's buried in a big log. I'll repeat they are both cutting the same wood. Steve



My bar was buried in that trunk - you didn't mention anything about that. 

I already told you I own an Echo chainsaw, and I have used them professionally in the past. I LIKE them(modded) - even if some of them are Shindaiwas. I have no bias. Zero. It either works, or it doesn't. I do not care at all about the brand. I have an MS361 because it works. It replaced my 372XP. I own or have owned all brands, including Macs and Homelites, etc.

However - the extra length always matters, and you know that. If you have to oil more bar, pull more chain weight, and have more resistance, you WILL be using more power. You can't ignore physics. If you compare two saws - keep it simple. Otherwise, there's no real use getting so excited. Lets try to keep some perspective - Echo does not have some sort of magic answer to 60cc saws. You will be hard-pressed to convince those of us with real chainsaw experience it can somehow compete with any modern well-ported chainsaw in the same class with the same set up.

Hell, I think my lil ported CS520 could give that 600P a very hard time:


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## GrassGuerilla

So what kind of sponsor deals are going on with a cs590 or 600?


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## bryanr2

Here's a cs520 that Randy labeled a "346 killer" in the thread.


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## hoskvarna

Got my 600 back from Mweba friday. run it some at the iowa charity cut on saturday,big difference!
need to run more and break it in,it seems to get rite up in rpms and lots of torque.
when tunein this saw u will need a tach,correct,cause bumpin the coil limit and 4 strokin sound same?

can u get a unlimited coil for these?

gotta run it more to see how well i like it ,so far so good!


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## mountainlake

Those CS520 saws are good runners. The reason I don't buy a 60CC saw. Steve


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## jughead500

hoskvarna said:


> Got my 600 back from Mweba friday. run it some at the iowa charity cut on saturday,big difference!
> need to run more and break it in,it seems to get rite up in rpms and lots of torque.
> when tunein this saw u will need a tach,correct,cause bumpin the coil limit and 4 strokin sound same?
> 
> can u get a unlimited coil for these?
> 
> gotta run it more to see how well i like it ,so far so good!


Try the cs620 coil


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## hoskvarna

do know this works Jughead,dont want to get one and not have it work.
Somebody got one to try?


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## jughead500

Not 100% certain.pretty much the same saw.I think they use the same flywheel.


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## jughead500

Same flywheel.port timing on the cylinders is probably the only thing difference.one coil is limited and the other unlimited.kind of the difference between pro and non pro models on huskys.same saws just a little difference.


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## jughead500

I actually have been wanting to get some 620 parts for comparison but a whole saw would be cheaper than the cylinder,carb and coil.price on the unlimited coil is around $85+


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## Stealth

I'm tempted to pick up a Cs-590 at a good sale price.
Does anyone know if the chain sprocket is the same as either of the ones on my echo cs-520 or cs-670? I'm hoping I can use my bar/chains from either one of those saws on the 590.


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## cobey

going to get my 590 back this weekend...... AWOL did some machine work to it


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## jughead500

Stealth said:


> I'm tempted to pick up a Cs-590 at a good sale price.
> Does anyone know if the chain sprocket is the same as either of the ones on my echo cs-520 or cs-670? I'm hoping I can use my bar/chains from either one of those saws on the 590.


Not sure if the 520 is 3\8 or .325.the 670 should definitely be 3\8.


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## jughead500

cobey said:


> going to get my 590 back this weekend...... AWOL did some machine work to it


Details?


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## Stealth

jughead500 said:


> Not sure if the 520 is 3\8 or .325.the 670 should definitely be 3\8.


I believe you are right on both counts (.325 for 520, 3/8 for 670)...Any idea what the 590 is?


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## awol

I removed .027 from cylinder base, .021 from squish band, widened exhaust and intake, lowered intake and raised exhaust. Transfer height was unchanged, but also widened. Finished numbers:
Ex: 104/152
In: 95/170 or 85° from tdc
Tr. 128/104
Blow down:24°


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## awol

The Cs600 stock numbers were:
ex: 113/134
In: 103/154 or 77° from tdc
Tr:133/94

The cs590s stock numbers were:
Ex:113/134
In:103/154 or 77° from tdc
Tr:128/104


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## awol

Stealth said:


> I believe you are right on both counts (.325 for 520, 3/8 for 670)...Any idea what the 590 is?


 It's 3/8 for sure.


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## cobey

jughead500 said:


> Details?


 answered for me.... I dont know numbers yet... i just make "special chains"
and pull the trigger


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## cobey

the echo bar is 3/8 .050 70 drvrs


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## cobey

I like my echo's I have (2) cs370s, a 500 EVL, and this 590


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## DeckSetter

Stealth said:


> I'm tempted to pick up a Cs-590 at a good sale price.
> Does anyone know if the chain sprocket is the same as either of the ones on my echo cs-520 or cs-670? I'm hoping I can use my bar/chains from either one of those saws on the 590.


590 is 3/8, same mount as the cs-600p/670/680/8000. D176 I think.


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## cobey

DeckSetter said:


> 590 is 3/8, same mount as the cs-600p/670/680/8000. D176 I think.


 yep thats it!


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## rmh3481

Here is a list of what Oregon D176 mount bars will fit;
http://www.oregonchain.com.au/d176.html


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## awol

D176 Oregon will work, but the A176 is the proper mount, because of the pin type tensioner. I have used the large and small Husky bars also.


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## cobey

590 update........ thanks to Alan its great   it pulls like a monster, tons of torque. and runs and oils a 24" bar hard


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## sunfish

cobey said:


> 590 update........ thanks to Alan its great   it pulls like a monster, tons of torque. and runs and oils a 24" bar hard


That one sure does run great!


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## cobey

I just got in from noodleing a 40" log I got from dad.... Alan said to work it hard


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## GrassGuerilla

After comparing the 20" 590 Timberwolf bar to several large mount Husky bars. It seems the 70 dl 20" is actually more like 19". It falls squarely between my 68dl 18" and my 72 dl 20". 

Point is, with a bar change off the shelf chain options improve greatly.


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## awol

Glad ya like it Cobey! I kinda miss having it here in the woods, I'm gonna half ta go back into this 600 and try to make it pull like your 590.


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## cobey

i put the bar spacers to make the studs tighter in the bar, it oils even better now  i have never run a 59cc
that pulls like this saw... some faster, but not torquier


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## cobey

awol said:


> Glad ya like it Cobey! I kinda miss having it here in the woods, I'm gonna half ta go back into this 600 and try to make it pull like your 590.


 
you get lots of macs, and that killer deer saw, and jred


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## hoskvarna

Hey AWOL ,do u know if the 620 unlimited coil will fit the 600s?
Jughead thinks it will,but not 100% sure.


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## cobey

he told me it would


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## hoskvarna

cobey said:


> he told me it would


Guess ill have to start lookin for one.


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## Deleted member 83629

the 590 is a good saw but the stock bar is crap the nose wants to flare out after a couple weeks of use.
i recommend a decent bar if you proceed to keep it.


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## cobey

mine didnt need the extra RPM's


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## hoskvarna

Im used to tunein by sound ,dont know if it is 4strokin or bumpin the coil.
All my other saws are not limited so thats why i was lookin for one.


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## GrassGuerilla

So what's the preferred set up on 590's? 18" bar, 20"bar, 24" bar? 18-20 being a no-brainer, will it pull 24" stock with a muff mod?


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## awol

hoskvarna said:


> Guess ill have to start lookin for one.


 Yeah, it will, but Cobey is right, I don't think you need it. They have a heavy, full-skirted piston and are real good at pulling hard and working hard. I'm gonna try to fit a slab-sided 45mm piston and lighter connecting rod to one someday. The carb also has a bypass on the high side, so even if you turn the high screw in all the way, it still may run to rich.


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## hoskvarna

Ok I'll just run it. Thanks


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## cobey

GrassGuerilla said:


> After comparing the 20" 590 Timberwolf bar to several large mount Husky bars. It seems the 70 dl 20" is actually more like 19". It falls squarely between my 68dl 18" and my 72 dl 20".
> 
> Point is, with a bar change off the shelf chain options improve greatly.


 you can use a large husky mount with 72 drivers, might check 18" bars in that mount.
I wouldnt run a 24 on one thats not modded. if you use a lg husky mount it works better
with stud spacers, but will work without them


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## DeckSetter

GrassGuerilla said:


> So what's the preferred set up on 590's? 18" bar, 20"bar, 24" bar? 18-20 being a no-brainer, will it pull 24" stock with a muff mod?


I don't see how a 24 could be a problem on a 590 since the 600p generally comes with a 24" and they're basically the same saw. I haven't tried one yet but expect it to handle it well.


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## awol

If you do run a 24" on your 590, full skip chain might be a good choice. I tried Cobeys 590 in some hard Walnut with a 24" 81 driver bar, before porting, and it was not impressive at all.
Although the engine is basically the same on the 590 and 600, the cylinders are different part numbers. As seen in my earlier post with the stock port timing numbers, the 590 transfers open earlier to give 5° less blow down than the 600. This means the 590 has less power than the 600.


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## GrassGuerilla

I swapped out the Timber pup bar and chain for a Shindaiwa branded Oregon power match 72 dl and an LGX chain. Almost ironic that the Shin bar landed on its own descendant. Works out much better using a "normal" 72dl. Glad I didn't go buy a handful of 70dl oddballs.


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## Deleted member 83629

will the 620 top end fit or no? a full wrap handle would be nice like the cs-620pw.
i installed a 200GLHD176 oregon pro lite bar and im giving it a try with a spool of oregon 72Lpx
thought i would try this chain out.


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## Stealth

I ended up buying one with a 20" bar.
Very pleased. Runs like a beast. First echo product I've bought that actually ran fine without needing to be set richer, right out of the box. A tad heavy, but I can live with it.
Significantly more power than my cs-520, which I thought was a perfect all around saw. Not sure I can go back to it , lol.


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## fordf150

jakewells said:


> will the 620 top end fit or no? a full wrap handle would be nice like the cs-620pw.
> i installed a 200GLHD176 oregon pro lite bar and im giving it a try with a spool of oregon 72Lpx
> thought i would try this chain out.


all the parts should interchange. 
“echo 590 crankcase *P021043311 
piston P021038790
cylinder A130002041
carb hda268a
rear handle C410001251

600 crankcase P021042160
piston P021015190
cylinder A130000910
carb hda274
rear handle C410000467

600P crankcase P021015134
piston P021038790
cylinder A130002040 ( This should be 2041 same as the 590)
carb hda268
rear handle C410001251

620P/PW crankcase P021044010
piston P021043990 $55.45
cylinder A130002160 $120.20
carb hda316
rear handle C410001251*


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## hoskvarna

Well guys i am no longer a echo owner. 
I traded the ported 600 for dolmar 7900,couldnt pass.
It sure ran good,would out cut my brothers husky 359 with 357xp P&C,not by much but it would.
Who knows ,will prolly get another someday?


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## zogger

hoskvarna said:


> Well guys i am no longer a echo owner.
> I traded the ported 600 for dolmar 7900,couldnt pass.
> It sure ran good,would out cut my brothers husky 359 with 357xp P&C,not by much but it would.
> Who knows ,will prolly get another someday?



Well, gives ya an excuse to upgrade to a 620 or whatever the next model iteration in that class is.


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## jughead500

hoskvarna said:


> Well guys i am no longer a echo owner.
> I traded the ported 600 for dolmar 7900,couldnt pass.
> It sure ran good,would out cut my brothers husky 359 with 357xp P&C,not by much but it would.
> Who knows ,will prolly get another someday?


You wha.....? Oh well don't blame ya. i'm still havin fun outta mine since i changed to the 20" husky bar and 8 pin sprocket. it just keeps throwing a rooster tail of noodles.love that torque.


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## cobey

hoskvarna said:


> Well guys i am no longer a echo owner.
> I traded the ported 600 for dolmar 7900,couldnt pass.
> It sure ran good,would out cut my brothers husky 359 with 357xp P&C,not by much but it would.
> Who knows ,will prolly get another someday?


 a 7900 is in a class by itself  im keeping my 590, but made a deal for a 660 stihl for a big saw
the AWOL 590 wont ever leave


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## nitehawk55

I got a CS590 with an 18" bar back in the fall . For $399 and a 5 year warranty it's a no brainer . I'm going to run it a bit in the spring to make sure it's good and then open up the muffler and tweak the carb .


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## Wvcummins90

Hey guys new here and in the market for my first saw went to my local stihl dealer and checked out the farm boss but leaning more towards the Timberwolf when I got to my local Echo dealer he said he just sold his last one he could either order me one or he had a cs600p on the shelf he would do 499 on... Would it be worth it for me to just spend the extra $100 and get the 600? Thanks


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## fordf150

Wvcummins90 said:


> Hey guys new here and in the market for my first saw went to my local stihl dealer and checked out the farm boss but leaning more towards the Timberwolf when I got to my local Echo dealer he said he just sold his last one he could either order me one or he had a cs600p on the shelf he would do 499 on... Would it be worth it for me to just spend the extra $100 and get the 600? Thanks


Yes its worth $100 extra


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## jughead500

Wvcummins90 said:


> Hey guys new here and in the market for my first saw went to my local stihl dealer and checked out the farm boss but leaning more towards the Timberwolf when I got to my local Echo dealer he said he just sold his last one he could either order me one or he had a cs600p on the shelf he would do 499 on... Would it be worth it for me to just spend the extra $100 and get the 600? Thanks


how much cutting are you going to be doing.if a lot it probably would be due to the cost of the spur sprocket.with the 600 you'll be able to replace the rim sprocket much cheaper.


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## hoskvarna

Wvcummins90 said:


> Hey guys new here and in the market for my first saw went to my local stihl dealer and checked out the farm boss but leaning more towards the Timberwolf when I got to my local Echo dealer he said he just sold his last one he could either order me one or he had a cs600p on the shelf he would do 499 on... Would it be worth it for me to just spend the extra $100 and get the 600? Thanks


You will be glad u went with the echo instead of farmboss. Go with 600 imo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wvcummins90

I'm probably not going to be doing a whole lot of cutting after the initial clearing of my homesite for construction but just figured for that little of a difference it was probably worth the upgrade since he's going to make me a deal on the 600... At least I'm guessing that's a decent price not really sure


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## fordf150

that is $70-100 off the price of the 600. rim drive drum is $50. aluminum wrap is $75. laminate bar to solid bar is a $20 upgrade


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## john damps

Miles86 said:


> Howdy;
> 
> Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?
> 
> cs-590
> 
> cc: 59.8
> price: $450-460
> 
> cs-600P
> 
> 
> 
> cc:59.8
> price: $560-590 ??
> why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.
> 
> Echo claims the cs-590 timberwoof has more power than same size stihl and husqvarna?? They do not give the comparion models form Stihl - Husqvarna.??Ok they did on the pdf chart-stihl 290 stihl 291 and husqvarna 455 rancher, so that is the category for this saw.
> 
> See it here:
> Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA
> 
> I did do a search on this but I didn't get any results so if this is already been discussed sorry in advance, thanks again.
> 
> ps : I saw a husqvarna saw ad on TV this weekend and they pronouced husqvarna "hoosqvarna", is that right? :msp_confused:


WELL HERE IT GOES,SOME OF THESE GUYS JUMP RIGHT INTO AN HUSKY 562XP [I HAVE 1]THEY COMPAIRE TO SAWS WAY OUT OF WHAT YOUR INTRESTED,FOR THE MONEY AND WARRENTY THE ECHO 590 TIMBERWOLF IS ONE OF 2 BEST BUYS ON EARTH, I have 2 590 echo and love them and I log I use them,fellen-limbing-cutting on landing, the second being the jonsred new cs2255,the echo is 399.99dont let the guys on this site compare to a 700 dollor saw.i sent 5 tractor trailor loads out this week. I used the 2 formenchened [20 inch bar]391 stihl-[new]echo 680 and husky 372xp.and used them all for all phases,you will be very happy with the 590 echo-the 600 as a pro sprocket-little different bar,but not worth the xtra money,echo does stand behind their saws,they pick up the phone and call,i had an issue with the 680 chain techner twice,i have no problem felling 20-29 inch trees 175 ft high with the 590 echo or the 2255 jonsred,and have the pictures to prove it,when looking at saws STAY ON TOPIC,YOU MENCHEN A 400 DOLLOR SAW AND GUYS ARE FIGHTING OVER 750 DOLLOR SAWS,i have many so no particular saw gets over used,and the most important thing I can tell you is use manufacture synthetic oil non ethanol gas and startron gas treatment,i have never had gas issues, good luck. john sr,


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## jughead500

thank you john.i used my 600 for regular farm boy logging for a while.most were 24-30" pine and poplar.then stumped 30-36" hard maple.also cut up some 36" hard maple for firewood after all of the smaller limbs were gone.it just had started to open up good before i sold it.
on another note.check this out.more expensive than the echo counterpart.still sweet though.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/252135714453


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## john damps

jdhacker said:


> I hate to be the devil advocate, and not trying to start drama. But What saw did you compare side by side with, Also could you explain about the john deer pushing so much more then the cat. Did they have the same kind of tracks? because the cat has more hp and is a heaver machine, I would think they would be very close, as the cat only weighs around one ton more, and only has a very small amount more power. The only reason I ask, when we give a opinion and compare something, lets make sure its unbiased. Because someone may use it, and there findings may differ.


the deere was a fullcab h j series about 130 hrs power,700lgp.the cat was a straight track d6 seriese about a 2004 ,now the deere wovlnd push what a cat d6 lgp N series thay have 150 horse and way about 4500 pounds more,i was compairing apples to apples. my deere 650 has 110horse,but dosnt push as much as a komatsu ex39,[similar dozers] the deee has a lot of power but dosnt put it through out the tracks,it dosnt put ALL THAT POWER TO GOOD USE, the tracks spins to easy,the 700 is set up pefect you get all that power sent to the ground,and I run these all the time [daily]I think its like the old cat d6 1977-1984 D6D now that would push and push, the power went to the ground,


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## john damps

7sleeper said:


> Husqvarna 562 is only 59.8ccm!
> 
> 7


 I know ,and 4,7hrs,


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## john damps

jdhacker said:


> I glad you like your new saw, and I know echo has made good stuff for years. But I think that is about enough from the super duper steel cutting tree slaying, granite eating, chain breaking 590. I would love to run my 044 against a 590 or 600 with a 25 in bar both burred in something hard.


wow big challenge,run a 800 dollor saw against a 400 dollor saw, and say how POWERFULL THE STIHL IS, WOW


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## gary courtney

john damps said:


> wow big challenge,run a 800 dollor saw against a 400 dollor saw, and say how POWERFULL THE STIHL IS, WOW


He needs to run my masterminded 600p


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## john damps

gary courtney said:


> He needs to run my masterminded 600p


hows that run??? fast'


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## gary courtney

john damps said:


> hows that run??? fast'


it is pretty formidable against 70cc saws


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## john damps

gary courtney said:


> it is pretty formidable against 70cc saws


I want to run the 600, some counties that's all they use, and cut big gum tree's I have 2 cs 400 [don't use much at all, 2 -590 and bought my son inlay a 590, and a 680 24inch, I know those 600 cost more for a reason, I need to try one,do they really scream?


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## john damps

Miles86 said:


> Got that right, never understand the idea of being stingy with oil. 20:1 for me. Oil is cheap. (well sorta of cheap).
> Has anyone run a cs-600 next to the new cs-620? I'm not giving up my cs-670, but I really getting hard not to drool at my echo dealer lately.


let me give you my recipite for chainsaw gas, now I run 7-10 a day I USE NONETHINOL HYSKY XP IN MY HUSKYS, ECHI SYNTHETIC IN MY ECHO, AND JONSRED IN MY JONSRED, WHEN IN A PINCH ALWAYS USE THE ECHO FOR OTHER SAWS, AND MOST IMPORTANT STARTRON GAS TREATMENT, [ALSO LAWN MOWER -SNOWBLOWER-AND YAMMAHA 250 4 STROKE VWAX , 3 GUYS CAME UP FRM TEXES IN 2011 TO A BASS TOURN, ABOUT 200 OF US,AND TOLD US THE GAS INTHE NORTH EAST IS THE WORST,IF WE BLOW UP OUR ENGINES DO TO GAS [LIKE A LOT OF STIHLS SAWS] THEY WONT WARRWNTY IT, MY MOTOR IS 26,000 DOLLORS,AFTER THEIR DEMO WITH APPROX 15 OF THE TOP ADDITIVES-STAYBUIT-LUCUS-TO MANY TO GET INTO, THE STARTRON TOOK THE WATER OUT AND DEVOVED ANY ETHINOL. THEY YAMMAHA-MERC-EVINDUDE,THE MANUFACTURE WILL WARRENTY THE ENGINGE, SO FOR 7.99 THAT GOES IN MY SAWS,IM PROUD TO SAY I NEVER EVER HAD FUEL PROBLEMS AND I LOG THE ICE COLD ADIRONDACKS,WONT LEAVE HOME WITH OUT IT,IHELPED MANY PEOPLE,THEIRSAWS WERE RUNNING ROUGHT,THE SARTRON SMOTHENED THEM RIGHT OUT, BUY IT AND USE IT, BE SMART,NOTHING IS BETTER


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## Team FAST

I will refer everyone to this thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...f-muffler-mod-flow-bench-measurements.299923/


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## john damps

Miles86 said:


> Howdy;
> 
> Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?
> 
> cs-590
> 
> cc: 59.8
> price: $450-460
> 
> cs-600P
> 
> 
> 
> cc:59.8
> price: $560-590 ??
> why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.
> 
> Echo claims the cs-590 timberwoof has more power than same size stihl and husqvarna?? They do not give the comparion models form Stihl - Husqvarna.??Ok they did on the pdf chart-stihl 290 stihl 291 and husqvarna 455 rancher, so that is the category for this saw.
> 
> See it here:
> Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA
> 
> I did do a search on this but I didn't get any results so if this is already been discussed sorry in advance, thanks again.
> 
> ps : I saw a husqvarna saw ad on TV this weekend and they pronouced husqvarna "hoosqvarna", is that right? :msp_confused:





Miles86 said:


> Howdy;
> 
> Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?
> 
> cs-590
> 
> cc: 59.8
> price: $450-460
> 
> cs-600P
> 
> 
> 
> cc:59.8
> price: $560-590 ??
> why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.
> 
> Echo claims the cs-590 timberwoof has more power than same size stihl and husqvarna?? They do not give the comparion models form Stihl - Husqvarna.??Ok they did on the pdf chart-stihl 290 stihl 291 and husqvarna 455 rancher, so that is the category for this saw.
> 
> See it here:
> Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA
> 
> I did do a search on this but I didn't get any results so if this is already been discussed sorry in advance, thanks again.
> 
> ps : I saw a husqvarna saw ad on TV this weekend and they pronouced husqvarna "hoosqvarna", is that right? :msp_confused:


I SAID FROM DAY ONE THE 590 TIMBERWOLF WAS AND IS THE BEST BUY ON THE MARKET,AND IS THE BEST SAW IN ITS CLASS,[HUSKY 460-455-STHL291 JONSRED 2255,[CLOSE] AND DOLMAR,WHITCH IS 196 BUCKS MORE,ANY FARM-RANCH SAW [NOT PRO THE 562XO JONSRED 2260STIHL 361 ARE FASTER BUT NOT FOR 400 BUCKS] FOR 400 DOLLORS THE ECHO 590 IS THE BEST,MY OPINOIN,I HAVE A TOTAL OF 15 CHAIN SAWS,SOME BIG ONES,THE SMALLEST IS AN ECHO CS400, 299 DOLLORS,ALL THE WAY TO 1400 DOLLOR SAWS,I DONT CARE ABOUT LOYALTY MOST OF STIHL LOVERS the guy that says all stihl are the best are brain washed, in most cases [not ALL CASES]husky ,echo jonsred,dolmar are much better,i always say you get what you pay for,too many guys compare a 700 dollor saw to a 400 saw,not every 59cc saw is the same,not every 70cc saw is the same,i have many twins husky 372 and jonsred 2172,in that case I like the husy,i like my 2166 more than my 365 ,I like the 2260 more than the 562xp,i like the balance of the jonsred, over all if I had to only have 2 chainsaws and lived in the mountains of Alaska I would take a new echo 590 20inch bar and a new 272 husky or the jonsred 2260,


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## hopm

590 is an outstanding buy.....bought mine for $335 new in the box...warranty...ready to roll.....no doubt there are better, bigger, stronger saws.....but not for $335


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## Wow

hopm said:


> 590 is an outstanding buy.....bought mine for $335 new in the box...warranty...ready to roll.....no doubt there are better, bigger, stronger saws.....but not for $335


I bought mine in 2016 and have never needed to do anything but put a new 24 inch (better) bar and chain sharpen adjust chain, add petrol and oil then run it as hard as I like. My brother's 600p came with a 24 inch bar. His saw pulled and oiled great. I had a 20 inch bar on my 029 so installed the 24 on my 590. Then for that occasionally 36-48 + inch tree I bought a 27 or 28 can't remember exactly, and took those big bad boys down easily. The longer bar oils great. I have several Sthils and use the 024 a lot, 029 most of the time, Echo 310, selectively, and the 590 felling and Bucking anything that seems to work my 029 hard. The 590 is the saw I choose when I'm in a hurry and need to get done fast.
On smallish trees the 029 is fast enough. The 024 cuts almost as fast as the 026 which feels lighter but I prefer the 024 over the 026. This time of year (winter) I'll often clear underbrush and vines away from trees which will be cut later with a bigger saw. That's done with the Echo cs310. 
At 70 years old the 310 is so much lighter. However, I sometimes I wish I'd have bought the next size up. It may be a tad faster. As much as I want to climb I stopped a couple years ago because older guys don't take falls and all I've ever known is hard work (which is play to me) and if I were to become crippled up and wheel chair bound my life would be totally worthless. Once for a couple years, I was having back problems. I've crawled up a hill one time snipping saw briers and hacking brush pulling a Chainsaw to get to a tree. I've felled and bucked on my knees. Got better and still can't stop. The sound of a well tuned Chainsaw is music to me. It's in the blood. Can't imagine quitting. May as well be dead. I'll bet I'm not the only guy like that either. I'm supposed to be retired. Once I worked to live, now I live to work. Sometimes just a few hours a day but I've got to reeve a saw, or drive a tractor and feel the wind, smell and taste mother nature. That's heaven that's living. Good day.


----------



## K-techcowboy

Miles86 said:


> Howdy;
> 
> Can anyone explain these two models as far as the price difference and any performance differences?
> 
> cs-590
> 
> cc: 59.8
> price: $450-460
> 
> cs-600P
> 
> 
> 
> cc:59.8
> price: $560-590 ??
> why is this one so much more? It look very much like the cs-590 size wise.
> 
> Echo claims the cs-590 timberwoof has more power than same size stihl and husqvarna?? They do not give the comparion models form Stihl - Husqvarna.??Ok they did on the pdf chart-stihl 290 stihl 291 and husqvarna 455 rancher, so that is the category for this saw.
> 
> See it here:
> Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA
> 
> I did do a search on this but I didn't get any results so if this is already been discussed sorry in advance, thanks again.
> 
> ps : I saw a husqvarna saw ad on TV this weekend and they pronouced husqvarna "hoosqvarna", is that right? :msp_confused:


What did you end up getting?


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## kuhndog

Used my first rim kit from LRB (I bought 2) and have to say fit and finish was great. Also I think they were about $24? Maybe they need some words to bring them back.


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## kuhndog

Just an FYI for you Echo guys. LRB has the rim kits back in stock for the CS590, since I have 17 (590) out with neighbors I had to pick up 2 more.


----------

