# Taco circ pumps - lifespan?



## Jon E (Nov 1, 2010)

Hey all,

I'm sure most of you that have circulator pumps in your heating system, have those little '00' series green Taco pumps. I've been using 'em up quickly, it seems, and I am beginning to wonder if I need to set aside an annual budget for replacing these little green pieces of junk. Maybe Taco needs to cast these things with a recycling triangle on them.

In the four years I've had my wood boiler running, I've had to replace the pump on the boiler twice. This is an '0010', which is NOT on the shelf at Home Depot, and I'm damn lucky that I had a new-in-box replacement handy, since the last time it died, it did so at about 10 pm on a Saturday night, prior to a Monday holiday.

The first one of my indoor pumps, in my primary circulation loop from the heat exchanger, decided to die on Saturday afternoon. This is an '007' and is an off-the-shelf part at HD, to the tune of $80. The things are easy enough to replace, I guess. We've been living in the house three years this Christmas, and the OWB was running for a year before that to heat the construction going on, so I got four years out of the main pump. The guy at HD said that he knows of someone who replaces them every six to nine months. Sorry, I have seven pumps in my system - five zones, one main loop pump indoors, and one boiler pump. I am not about to spend $500 or more every two or three years to replace these things. Now I'm paranoid and just waiting for the next one to go.

Is this 'normal', and should I just expect it? The cartridges, which I should be buying, are virtually the same price as a whole new pump, and I can only get them through the local plumbing wholesaler. I guess I need to keep a few spares on the shelf. In my old house, we had the original oil burner, installed in 1974, and the original Bell & Gossett circ pumps, and they ran strong until three years ago when the oil burner was replaced with a new propane high-efficiency system (with Taco pumps !). I feel sorry for my brother - he's got the old house now and will probably burn through these little green turds just as fast as I do.


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## blakey (Nov 1, 2010)

I have had surprisingly good luck with the Taco pumps. I finally had to put a cartridge in my 009 at the end of its 9th season, and my 007 is going on its 10th season. The 007 is located at the owb and the 009 is in the basement. They are both on different loops but likely being pushed to their limits.

If I were you I would check the water in the owb or try a different brand next time you have to replace it.


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## Butch(OH) (Nov 1, 2010)

blakey said:


> I have had surprisingly good luck with the Taco pumps. I finally had to put a cartridge in my 009 at the end of its 9th season, and my 007 is going on its 10th season. The 007 is located at the owb and the 009 is in the basement. They are both on different loops but likely being pushed to their limits.
> 
> If I were you I would check the water in the owb or try a different brand next time you have to replace it.



Pushing them is why you are not having pump troubles. One of, maybe the primary? reasons that people have pump troubles is the attitude that overkill is good for the pump, when the actuality is it is not. A centrifugal pump operating under or over the design envelope for total head is subject to higher loads than one that is working to it's rated capacity. Our local CB dealer has given TACO a very bad rap because of this very reason. One guy was having so much troubles he went with a B&G speced to his "junk" TACO specs and guess what? it didnt last either. I finally convinced him to downsize his pump and he troubles went away. All a person has to do is send his system specs to TACO and they will gladly size your pump properly. My TACOs are on year 5 and no signs of troubles.


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## showrguy (Nov 1, 2010)

my taco's 4-007's, and 2-009's, have been great...
i did have to replace a 009 2 years ago cause my fan exploded and left the flapper open, the stove boiled over and the system got alot of air in it, and the pumps...
either your getting air in the system or butch is right...
mine are going on 10 years, btw...


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## atlarge54 (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm heading into season seven with some cheapo tacos. Butch is right lots of OWB sales people don't properly design systems. I'd guess you've got a fairly long run of 1" pex lines, now don't forget every elbow adds restriction too. Circ pumps work best in a pressurized system. Think of a pressure cooker in reverse---when the pressure goes up so does the boiling point. In a non pressurized system the low pressure created at the impeller can lower the boiling point and the steam created can destroy the pump. Do you run fairly high temps on your system? Can the pump be moved to a lower point in the system (a marginal benefit)?

Now about the bad 007, they've got the starting torque of a weak light bulb. Before you pitch it use a screwdriver to make sure the impeller is free and plug it in to test while removed from the system.


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 1, 2010)

Butch(OH) said:


> Pushing them is why you are not having pump troubles. One of, maybe the primary? reasons that people have pump troubles is the attitude that overkill is good for the pump, when the actuality is it is not. A centrifugal pump operating under or over the design envelope for total head is subject to higher loads than one that is working to it's rated capacity. Our local CB dealer has given TACO a very bad rap because of this very reason. One guy was having so much troubles he went with a B&G speced to his "junk" TACO specs and guess what? it didnt last either. I finally convinced him to downsize his pump and he troubles went away. All a person has to do is send his system specs to TACO and they will gladly size your pump properly. My TACOs are on year 5 and no signs of troubles.



:agree2:

I worked with an OWB dealer for a while, correcting some of the "problems" until I came out and told him that his "designs", or lack thereof, was the main problem w/the systems. Oversized circs, poor water quality/water treatment, poorly designed piping all will kill them. Yah, the old B&G Series 100's have been around since the 50's, but cannot be used when "Pumping Away", or used in the supply side of the boiler (primary-secondary)to push the water instead of pulling it, cuz the seals will not hole up to 190-200 deg. water, plus the newer cartridge types have a much higher head and GPM capacity than 'Ol Reliable. Usually the first question the dealer asks is "how many square ft. is your house?" instead of what is your heat loss? Speaking of pumping away, go to www.heatinghelp.com, order either/both of Dan's books on hydronic heating to get a better feel for proper design...


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## woodman6666 (Nov 1, 2010)

A grundfos pump of equal size and performance will outlast a Taco by double or more, we have found this to be true time and time again.


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## sawkiller (Nov 1, 2010)

As was said earlier a pump being sized and used correctly is far more important to its life than its brand.


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 1, 2010)

woodman6666 said:


> A grundfos pump of equal size and performance will outlast a Taco by double or more, we have found this to be true time and time again.



I've seen all makes of pumps crap out.....even the new Wilo.



sawkiller said:


> As was said earlier a pump being sized and used correctly is far more important to its life than its brand.



:agree2:[


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## blackdogon57 (Nov 1, 2010)

Why so many pumps ?? I run similar system ( 2 buildings - 5 heat zones, 2 DHW tank plus pool heater) with 2 Taco 009 pumps. I have replaced 1 in 3 years and they run year round.


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## duane9835 (Nov 1, 2010)

woodman6666 said:


> A grundfos pump of equal size and performance will outlast a Taco by double or more, we have found this to be true time and time again.



AGREE^^^ I have replaced the only Taco in my system twice and none of the 5 grundfos have given me a lick of trouble???? But then again maybe it is not sized properly??


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## Diesel Pro (Nov 1, 2010)

My Taco 009 has been running since 1997 without a lick of trouble. It used to be part of my OWB setup, but I converted to LP for the shop. I later added a second building to the same boiler and run this same circ pump (zone valves) to deliver heated water to my in floor heat in both buildings.

Your frequency of failure is poor at best, BUT the replacement should be a few minutes at best. If you don't have isolation flanges I would definitely look into a set.


Our new home has a Geothermal water to water setup with multiple Grundfos pumps. We'll see how well they hold up.


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## teatersroad (Nov 1, 2010)

One of the benefits of anti-freeze in a system is that it is a better pump lubricant that straight water - same is true for vehicle water pumps. Have a couple of Grundfoss pumps in service commercially here, several years and not a lick of trouble. Can't say they are better than Taco, but can say they've been great.

edit> well I did not see you'all said 'not a lick of trouble' before I said 'not a lick of trouble'..dang


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## reaperman (Nov 1, 2010)

I have two 007's that have been going strong since 2002 in a pressurized boiler. One thing nobody mentioned yet is circ pumps must be installed horizontal, not vertically.


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## cbrslider (Nov 1, 2010)

Hmm this is interesting. I've had the opposite scenario happen with my pumps. I have gone through 2 Grundfos pumps on my wood boiler and just decided to change to a Taco, where as I've not had to replace one Taco on the inside primary loop(6 pumps-5 007, and 1 0011). My system has been up and running for 5 years since we built the house. A thing that the heating supply guy mentioned to me about the outside boiler pump, is that it should be a bronze model. He was explaining that since the outside boiler is not a pressurized system, the extra oxygen kills the regular pumps. So he recommended the bronze pump. 

Now I'll throw out a question for someone. Since I just changed that pump(taco 0011) about 2 weeks ago, there seems too be a lot of air I can hear in the line. Where is it coming from? I can hear bubbling in the boiler and air in the copper line where it comes into the house then goes to copper. Must be a fitting leaking somewhere?

Thanks
Ray


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 2, 2010)

cbrslider said:


> Hmm this is interesting. I've had the opposite scenario happen with my pumps. I have gone through 2 Grundfos pumps on my wood boiler and just decided to change to a Taco, where as I've not had to replace one Taco on the inside primary loop(6 pumps-5 007, and 1 0011). My system has been up and running for 5 years since we built the house. A thing that the heating supply guy mentioned to me about the outside boiler pump, is that it should be a bronze model. He was explaining that since the outside boiler is not a pressurized system, the extra oxygen kills the regular pumps. So he recommended the bronze pump.
> 
> Now I'll throw out a question for someone. Since I just changed that pump(taco 0011) about 2 weeks ago, there seems too be a lot of air I can hear in the line. Where is it coming from? I can hear bubbling in the boiler and air in the copper line where it comes into the house then goes to copper. Must be a fitting leaking somewhere?
> 
> Ray


Need to bleed...again?


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## Jon E (Nov 2, 2010)

blackdogon57 said:


> Why so many pumps ?? I run similar system ( 2 buildings - 5 heat zones, 2 DHW tank plus pool heater) with 2 Taco 009 pumps. I have replaced 1 in 3 years and they run year round.



Picture my system like links in a chain. Each link has a pump. There's one from the OWB to the heat exchanger, one from the heat exchanger as the primary loop with branches for each zone, and one for each zone (four heat zones and one DHW). So, one 0011 pump at the OWB (which is cast iron, NOT bronze, but should be) and five 007's. 

I spoke to the manager of the local plumbing wholesaler yesterday and he told me two things I didn't know. First, the pumps need to be mounted horizontally. That's been said here. He said vertical mounting "especially above the heat" will 'kill' the pump. Mine are all horizontal, and have quick flanges, so not a problem. The other one was starting (but not necessarily running) the pumps in a high-heat situation. He said he sees this all the time with OWB pumps. Someone starts a pump when the water temp is above 200 degrees, the water flashes to steam and the impeller melts. I bet that's what happened to my 0011. I need to be careful about that from now on. Still no explaining the indoor 007, though. I was able to easily spin the impeller after I took it out of the system, so maybe it just got stuck. I will save that one as a backup.


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## cbrslider (Nov 2, 2010)

Jon, good info to know. Ran into a problem this morning that I didn't have time to fix. Temp at boiler is 175, while temp in house is 125. Air locked line? Maybe I mounted the pump wrong (flow direction). Well have to deal with it tonight when I get home from work.

Ray


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## nt3041 (Nov 2, 2010)

cbrslider said:


> Hmm this is interesting. I've had the opposite scenario happen with my pumps. I have gone through 2 Grundfos pumps on my wood boiler and just decided to change to a Taco, where as I've not had to replace one Taco on the inside primary loop(6 pumps-5 007, and 1 0011). My system has been up and running for 5 years since we built the house. A thing that the heating supply guy mentioned to me about the outside boiler pump, is that it should be a bronze model. He was explaining that since the outside boiler is not a pressurized system, the extra oxygen kills the regular pumps. So he recommended the bronze pump.
> 
> Now I'll throw out a question for someone. Since I just changed that pump(taco 0011) about 2 weeks ago, there seems too be a lot of air I can hear in the line. Where is it coming from? I can hear bubbling in the boiler and air in the copper line where it comes into the house then goes to copper. Must be a fitting leaking somewhere?
> 
> ...



With out knowing the details of your setup I think your pump is cavitating, the high suction head requirements of the wet rotor 011 pump is causing the water to boil at the pump inlet and is a poor choice for the application. A 1400 series dry rotor would be a better choice. This happened to me and that was the cure (Taco 1400-2). Good luck.


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## Jaberwky (Nov 2, 2010)

*Huh?*



reaperman said:


> I have two 007's that have been going strong since 2002 in a pressurized boiler. One thing nobody mentioned yet is circ pumps must be installed horizontal, not vertically.



Really? My CB Classic couldn't possibly mount the circ pumps any other way but vertical within the factory supplied housing on the unit. There just isn't room. So does that mean the boiler is designed poorly or maybe should have pumps located remotely so that they *can *be mounted horiz?


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## cbrslider (Nov 2, 2010)

Well figured out the problem. Guess there's a reason I'm a cop and not a plumber. Sure enough, the pump was flowing the wrong direction. My mistake for installing it while I was in a big hurry. Thanks for the info and suggestions. 

Ray


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## Jon E (Nov 2, 2010)

Jaberwky said:


> Really? My CB Classic couldn't possibly mount the circ pumps any other way but vertical within the factory supplied housing on the unit. There just isn't room. So does that mean the boiler is designed poorly or maybe should have pumps located remotely so that they *can *be mounted horiz?



Need to be clearer here. Hm. OK - it doesn't matter which way the water is flowing - up, down, left or right. As long as the pump itself, the cylinder housing the pump cartridge, is horizontal in some direction. Picture the shaft of the pump, inside the housing. If that is pointing up or down, it's allegedly mounted wrong. On my CB classic, the water is flowing into the pump from the top, out the bottom, but the pump shaft is parallel with the ground. In my house, the pumps are mounted in at least three different ways, but all the shafts are parallel to the floor.


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 3, 2010)

cbrslider said:


> Well figured out the problem. Guess there's a reason I'm a cop and not a plumber. Sure enough, the pump was flowing the wrong direction. My mistake for installing it while I was in a big hurry. Thanks for the info and suggestions.
> 
> Ray



That's ok...I did an oil boiler changeout for a friend a few yrs. ago, piped it up backwards, discovered it just before the last solder joint was done, and I've been doing this kind of work for over 30 yrs.


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## Jaberwky (Nov 3, 2010)

*Ah*



Jon E said:


> Need to be clearer here. Hm. OK - it doesn't matter which way the water is flowing - up, down, left or right. As long as the pump itself, the cylinder housing the pump cartridge, is horizontal in some direction. Picture the shaft of the pump, inside the housing. If that is pointing up or down, it's allegedly mounted wrong. On my CB classic, the water is flowing into the pump from the top, out the bottom, but the pump shaft is parallel with the ground. In my house, the pumps are mounted in at least three different ways, but all the shafts are parallel to the floor.



Good deal. As Mr. T says - "We Coo"


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## boilerwood (Nov 4, 2010)

Jon E said:


> Need to be clearer here. Hm. OK - it doesn't matter which way the water is flowing - up, down, left or right. As long as the pump itself, the cylinder housing the pump cartridge, is horizontal in some direction. Picture the shaft of the pump, inside the housing. If that is pointing up or down, it's allegedly mounted wrong. On my CB classic, the water is flowing into the pump from the top, out the bottom, but the pump shaft is parallel with the ground. In my house, the pumps are mounted in at least three different ways, but all the shafts are parallel to the floor.



I used to have to replace mine every year when it was mounted with the cartridge hanging down. Since I rotated it 90 degrees I haven't had any problems and it is absolutely silent now.


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## Clarkbug (Nov 5, 2010)

Jon E said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm sure most of you that have circulator pumps in your heating system, have those little '00' series green Taco pumps. I've been using 'em up quickly, it seems, and I am beginning to wonder if I need to set aside an annual budget for replacing these little green pieces of junk. Maybe Taco needs to cast these things with a recycling triangle on them.
> 
> ...



Jon,

Before you buy any more pumps, go ahead and check out this link from Taco to make sure you are getting the one that is ideal for your house and hydronic system.

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf

Its a pretty good step by step guide, but if you have any issues with it post back and Im sure folks here can help out with it.

And on a note relevant to the topic (but not necessarily to your post), this is what Taco has to say about mounting their 00 series circulators.


When we speak of mounting, we are referring to the motor or motor shaft part of the pump. This motor part should be in a horizontal position (parallel with the floor), with the capacitor box on top or either side but never under the motor. You can mount the motor in a vertical position ( with the end of the motor facing up to the ceiling), as long as you have more than 20 psi in your system

This fits pretty well with what Jon was saying earlier.

Hope this helps some!


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## Jaberwky (Nov 6, 2010)

*Funny (kind of)*

I actually just had to replace both of my Tacos (007 and 009) because I was stupid and ran them dry for several hours (I didn't realize I had all the valves closed). Anyway I ordered online and they arrived on Thursday. One box said "007" and the other "009" but when I opened them up I saw that both were 007s - the UL labels on them clearly said 007-F5.

Now I"m all kinds of ticked off and go through lots of phone time tracking this down. Then I get to looking and realize that the pumps are in fact the right ones, and the factory obviously just put the wrong label on the wiring box for the 009. But for a while there I was highly ticked off.


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## DHIBBS75 (Jan 11, 2011)

Lots of good Info.. Will some of yall go to thread Apples to Apples owb And give my your opinion on it... mainly on the taco pumps.... Help me with my system...


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## pwl (Jan 12, 2011)

Pexsupply.com ran a special a while ago. 4-007 pumps for less than 4 cartriges.


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