# Rope climbing questions



## Garden Of Eden (Jun 22, 2009)

Hello,

I'm kinda new to rope climbing the smart way. I've done many crazy, stupid things in the past to get the job done, so now I'm looking to do somethings safer.

I'm wondering after I get the length of rope in the tree, and I have it around a solid crotch of the tree, what kind of knot do I tie for a SRT. I'm thinking some kind of slip knot, but I'm not sure I'm 100% thrilled about my life being in a slip knot. lol 80' is a long way down.

Also, what is my redundancy for safety on the line. Do I use an ascender for my foot, and one for my weight, then a double or triple prussik for safety? or is the ascender for safety, and the prussik for my foot, and another ascender for my weight? lol I'm so confused. lol 

I'm really not a HUGE fan of spurs, as I know I'm not doing it right, and will soon hurt myself if not instructed. So, I'm leaving that for a bit. lol 

Thank you all very much, and God bless,

Jeff


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## Tree Pig (Jun 22, 2009)

If you have to ask how to tie off your lifeline then you may hurt yourself doing SRT too. Find someone to give you some instruction.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jun 22, 2009)

*search SRT*

Do a search on SRT.


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## tree md (Jun 22, 2009)

Check out the book "On Rope". You can buy it for as little as $10 at Amazon. It's considered the SRT bible. Great book. I have been enthralled with it for the past couple of weeks.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 22, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> If you have to ask how to tie off your lifeline then you may hurt yourself doing SRT too. Find someone to give you some instruction.



Ha Ha Ha... No kidding. Hence the question here. lol I didn't really have to ask, just thought it was a pertinent question. lol



> Check out the book "On Rope". You can buy it for as little as $10 at Amazon. It's considered the SRT bible. Great book. I have been enthralled with it for the past couple of weeks.



Thanks, I'll be grabbing that tonight. 

God Bless,

Jeff


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## canopyboy (Jun 22, 2009)

As for tying off the (non-climbing) end of your SRT line, I take a couple wraps around the anchor tree. Then I tie a figure 8 on a bight in the free end. I then clip a biner through the bight and around the loaded end of the line going up, making a "slip knot" if you will.

On Rope has many, many pages dedicated to anchoring systems though. And a lot of other useful stuff for SRT.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 22, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> As for tying off the (non-climbing) end of your SRT line, I take a couple wraps around the anchor tree. Then I tie a figure 8 on a bight in the free end. I then clip a biner through the bight and around the loaded end of the line going up, making a "slip knot" if you will.
> 
> On Rope has many, many pages dedicated to anchoring systems though. And a lot of other useful stuff for SRT.



The figure 8 I presume is set then for belaying down? That's the way it sounds to me the way you've described it. Unless I'm missing something. Sounds pretty easy to me. Strong? Sounds like it would be plenty with 5/16 arbormaster?

Thanks a bunch, and have an amazing day.

Jeff


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## canopyboy (Jun 22, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> The figure 8 I presume is set then for belaying down? That's the way it sounds to me the way you've described it. Unless I'm missing something. Sounds pretty easy to me. Strong? Sounds like it would be plenty with 5/16 arbormaster?
> 
> Thanks a bunch, and have an amazing day.
> 
> Jeff



Uhh.....I need to clarify what you mean. Are you talking about why I use the Figure 8 knot for the tie-in? Because that really has nothing to do with belay. Belay usually involves another person taking in your rope as you free climb. 

Do you mean rapelling down on the rope with a Figure 8 belay/rappel device? In that case, there are a ton of methods for coming down, the Figure 8 being one of them. I like using the GriGri in a RADS or yo-yo system. It's your safety going up, and an auto-locking descent device coming down.

Finally, 5/16 arbormaster? I thought Arbormaster was by definition 1/2" rope. I like the 10mm Sterling HTP for SRT. But are you talking about 5/16 prussik cord?


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 22, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> Uhh.....I need to clarify what you mean. Are you talking about why I use the Figure 8 knot for the tie-in? Because that really has nothing to do with belay. Belay usually involves another person taking in your rope as you free climb.
> 
> Do you mean rapelling down on the rope with a Figure 8 belay/rappel device? In that case, there are a ton of methods for coming down, the Figure 8 being one of them. I like using the GriGri in a RADS or yo-yo system. It's your safety going up, and an auto-locking descent device coming down.
> 
> Finally, 5/16 arbormaster? I thought Arbormaster was by definition 1/2" rope. I like the 10mm Sterling HTP for SRT. But are you talking about 5/16 prussik cord?




Haha I actually read your post, then mine. I thought you were nuts for a second. I did mean rappelling down. I have not a clue why I said belay. 
I've only seen the grigri in use, never actually used it. 

Also, I do mean arbormaster, I just assumed 5/16, it probably is 1/2, honestly, it's a 1/16 of an inch. not bad for an eyeball. lol I totally understand the strength differences, but I just picked it up and though it felt thick.

So, you do not use the figure 8 in rappelling down then? How do you retrieve your rope at the end from the ground?

Thanks,

Jeff


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## grizzly2 (Jun 23, 2009)

Personally, if you're not sure about some of the basics of SRT climbing, then I would highly recommend mastering a more traditional climbing system prior to attempting to take on the advanced stuff. Most 'tree guys' out there who have been climbing for decades have never used an SRT system, and most likely won't.
That being said, for your own self preservation (things can get pretty harsh on this site), I would say get "On Rope" and "The Climber's Companion" learn everything you can from those two, then come back to this thread and ask whatever questions you still have.
Good luck, and be safe.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 23, 2009)

grizzly2 said:


> Personally, if you're not sure about some of the basics of SRT climbing, then I would highly recommend mastering a more traditional climbing system prior to attempting to take on the advanced stuff. Most 'tree guys' out there who have been climbing for decades have never used an SRT system, and most likely won't.
> That being said, for your own self preservation (things can get pretty harsh on this site), I would say get "On Rope" and "The Climber's Companion" learn everything you can from those two, then come back to this thread and ask whatever questions you still have.
> Good luck, and be safe.



I've got "On Rope" on order. I've gotta say, I posted this question in what I feel to be the right place. And even still, I feel a little put down by a couple of the responses. If I knew what books/material to get, I wouldn't have posted here. lol I'm forever amazed at people flesh.

Thank you and God bless,

Jeff


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 23, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> On Rope is a great book but you are not going to find anything on what arborist call the 'traditional rope climbing system', which is where you need to start.
> 
> Jeff Jepson's 'The Tree Climbers Companion' is a great book about rope climbing trees and a much better for those starting out.
> 
> Of course you need both books!



I'm making a trip to borders and a couple other book stores in a few minutes now. Thank you all for the wealth of info.

Jeff


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## canopyboy (Jun 23, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Haha I actually read your post, then mine. I thought you were nuts for a second. I did mean rappelling down. I have not a clue why I said belay.
> I've only seen the grigri in use, never actually used it.
> 
> Also, I do mean arbormaster, I just assumed 5/16, it probably is 1/2, honestly, it's a 1/16 of an inch. not bad for an eyeball. lol I totally understand the strength differences, but I just picked it up and though it felt thick.
> ...



If I'm climbing on the grigri, that is also my descent device, so no figure 8. If I do use a different method for ascent, then I've used the figure 8 for descending, but I back it up with a prusik or something. Let go of the prusik with your left hand and you stop quick. Still not idiot-proof, if you freeze up and hold onto the prussik while letting go with your brake hand you're toast. As for getting my rope back, I just pull it back out of the tree, usually from the anchor end.

You might have trouble finding those two books at Borders. Tree Climber's companion is found at most of the Stihl and Husky dealers around me. And of course both are available online.

I would highly recommend getting comfortable in trees on a DRT system before moving to SRT. But however you do it, just proceed slowly and be safe. I wouldn't go higher than you're willing to fall until you know your climbing system inside and out.

I'll stop spouting advice now. I'm no expert anyway.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 23, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> If I'm climbing on the grigri, that is also my descent device, so no figure 8. If I do use a different method for ascent, then I've used the figure 8 for descending, but I back it up with a prusik or something. Let go of the prusik with your left hand and you stop quick. Still not idiot-proof, if you freeze up and hold onto the prussik while letting go with your brake hand you're toast. As for getting my rope back, I just pull it back out of the tree, usually from the anchor end.
> 
> You might have trouble finding those two books at Borders. Tree Climber's companion is found at most of the Stihl and Husky dealers around me. And of course both are available online.
> 
> ...



Please, keep the advice coming. That's how new climbers like me learn. Lol. I'd have my wife make you all some cookies, providing of course she could. Lol. 

Thanks a million guys

Canopy, that's what I was thinking about descending. Thanks


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## md_tree_dood (Jun 23, 2009)

The main problem with this forum is people criticizing instead of actually offering advice, mostly because I don't think they know the answer. So here are some tips.

First off, ascenders aren't life support. You need to back up your system with some type of prussic, I usually put mine above my hand ascender. There are any number of ways to connect, heres one of the few that I mess around with.

-Petzl Pantin on right foot.
-Petzl right handed ascender with a 8mm endless prussic loop attached to the -bottom of the ascender and attached to my saddle. 
-A 4 wrap Schwabisch (tenex) fastened to the top of the hand ascender with a double locking carabiner above the ascender.

As you ascend, you slide the e2e up with the actually ascender. If you were to let go, or take a break the ascender will hold you to the rope but if it comes off the e2e will hold you from falling. This method is nice because you can take breaks with the system.

You can alternatively use an endless loop with a kleimheist above your ascender clipped to your belt and just use a pantin and hand ascender which takes out a couple of pieces, but when you take a break you'll be sitting in your kleimheist which will have to be broken and redressed when you start ascending again.

Hope this helps.


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## canopyboy (Jun 23, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> The main problem with this forum is people criticizing instead of actually offering advice, mostly because I don't think they know the answer.



I don't know if that's the main problem, but it sure is a problem at times. It can be downright hostile to a newbie sometimes.

But there are those that are a bit friendlier, way to step up.


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## tree md (Jun 23, 2009)

Personally, I have done little SRT and doubt that I will do much work on a single rope. What I have done on my own was inefficient and wrong as I found out later. I got the book On Rope mainly because I want to learn proper SRT to enter large trees for spikeless prunes. Sure, I can do it on a doubled rope but I think it will be much more efficient to not have to spend so much time isolating a limb for a TIP and I believe a good SRT climbing system will be faster and easier for tree entry on the big ones. I plan to change over to DRT once I enter the tree.

I also agree with TreeCo on The Tree Climber's Companion. It has all the basics of working on a traditional system which I think is imperative to learn before moving on to more advanced rope work.


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## grizzly2 (Jun 24, 2009)

tree md said:


> I plan to change over to DRT once I enter the tree.



It is to my understanding that SRT, much like the secured footlock method, are for entry purposes only. It is not to be used to work from.


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## D Mc (Jun 24, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I expect that SRT for work climbing is going to be getting ever more popular and will be the dominant climbing system of arborist in the know.




Ha! The evolution has already begun! I hear even some old guys, hard core doubled ropers, are now using it for not only entry but working the tree. 

Who'ld a thought?

Unfortunately, the only way to efficiently accomplish this so far, that I have found, is with the Unicender. There is the F8 system, but I have not tried it and don't like systems that produce difficulty with slack tending. There is no problem with slack tending with the Unicender. 

With the proper tools and technique, SRT has some distinct advantages over doubled rope. And I am well versed in doubled rope, having used it for my main stay in climbing longer than most. 

Dave


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## Greystoke (Jun 24, 2009)

*Unicender*



D Mc said:


> Ha! The evolution has already begun! I hear even some old guys, hard core doubled ropers, are now using it for not only entry but working the tree.
> 
> Who'ld a thought?
> 
> ...


 Replaced the Lockjack with the Unicender huh Dave. I would like to check that thing out sometime.

Cody


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## ray benson (Jun 24, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Haha I actually read your post, then mine. I thought you were nuts for a second. I did mean rappelling down. I have not a clue why I said belay.
> I've only seen the grigri in use, never actually used it.
> 
> Also, I do mean arbormaster, I just assumed 5/16, it probably is 1/2, honestly, it's a 1/16 of an inch. not bad for an eyeball. lol I totally understand the strength differences, but I just picked it up and though it felt thick.
> ...


Put 5/16 next to 1/2" rope. The 1/2" seems almost twice as thick, but it is really 3/16" thicker diameter.


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## D Mc (Jun 24, 2009)

tarzanstree said:


> Replaced the Lockjack with the Unicender huh Dave. I would like to check that thing out sometime.
> 
> Cody



You are more than welcome to give it a try, Lord Greystoke. Just remember, it's going to be like taking a Ferrari for a test drive, then driving home in your F100. 

Dave


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## sawinredneck (Jun 24, 2009)

Well Jeff, I try and do everything I can to discourage people from trying this on their own. As this is how I have/am learning, it's incredibly hard and dangerous.

SRT has certain advantages, and is faster to ascend on. But it's gear intensive, and ANY amount of climbing gear is expensive! DRT is much easier to learn on, and most everything can be converted over to SRT in time.

Read the "Tree climbers companion" until you all but have it memorized, then start working on knots. Do them until you can tie them blindfolded!
Find a tree at that point and stay slow and low.
Good luck!


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## Greystoke (Jun 25, 2009)

*Tarzan...The ape man?*

:monkey:


D Mc said:


> You are more than welcome to give it a try, Lord Greystoke. Just remember, it's going to be like taking a Ferrari for a test drive, then driving home in your F100.
> 
> Dave



"Lord Greystoke"...That's awesome! Makes me want to beat my chest! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE
I am working my way up to test driving the Ferrari...I even have a Falteimer and a Big Shot now, some fling it and zing it, a Silky Sugoi 15", Silky Hayauchi, and a Bee line eye to eye for the Valdotain Tresse(which I just test drove the other day; sweet!), recent additions to my library are: The Tree Climbers Guide, and Gerry Beranek's Working Climber DVD set. Also, I get extra credit for owning the Silvey Tree Saver Backpack unit, or a Silvey Pro Sharp Chain Grinder (now that is a Ferrari), and maybe my Silvey bar rail grinder and closer. I finally got to use my tree jacks on a residential application as I used them on that job that you guys reffered to me; they were sweet; jacked over the biggest dead Cottonwood on that job with ease, and managed to impress Michael the caretaker. I would love to try out your new gear sometime. By the way, when are you going to get a Teupen Spyderlift for me to test drive? :biggrinbounce2:

Cody


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 25, 2009)

Wow. I just re-read the entire thread. Canopy, where you were talking about a figure-8 I totally thought you meant in the tree, that's why I was confused initially. lol I get it not. I missed the words, on the anchor tree. lol

I get it now. My copy of On Rope was just sent back by my lovely neighbor. He got it by accident, and is kind of rude. lol So, I get to shop for one now. sick of waiting. 

Thanks everyone,

Jeff


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## tree md (Jun 25, 2009)

Without rereading back through this thread, I imagine Canopy is talking about setting up his anchor with a figure 8 at the base of the tree so there is a belay devise on the ground in case he needs to be lowered. Not sure if that is discussed in On Rope but I expect it is as it is a pretty standard technique. Also, you can use a throwline to make your rope retrievable if you set your anchor high in the tree. That is a trick I learned from someone on here. Enjoy your book, I am certainly enjoying my copy.


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## canopyboy (Jun 26, 2009)

tree md said:


> Without rereading back through this thread, I imagine Canopy is talking about setting up his anchor with a figure 8 at the base of the tree so there is a belay devise on the ground in case he needs to be lowered. Not sure if that is discussed in On Rope but I expect it is as it is a pretty standard technique. Also, you can use a throwline to make your rope retrievable if you set your anchor high in the tree. That is a trick I learned from someone on here. Enjoy your book, I am certainly enjoying my copy.





canopyboy said:


> As for tying off the (non-climbing) end of your SRT line, I take a couple wraps around the anchor tree. Then I tie a figure 8 on a bight in the free end. I then clip a biner through the bight and around the loaded end of the line going up, making a "slip knot" if you will.
> 
> On Rope has many, many pages dedicated to anchoring systems though. And a lot of other useful stuff for SRT.



No, that was the figure 8 knot I was talking about. (I had to read back through the thread to figure it out.)

I don't usually rig my lines for someone else to lower me. I have considered it when using the saw in the tree, but I'm usually on DRT then. Overally, I really don't want anyone (or trust anyone) around the anchor end of my SRT rope. Training them how to lower me without dropping me is just a step I haven't brought myself to take yet.

So have you tried cinching you SRT rope to a branch and bringing it back with a throwline yet? I've thought about it, but haven't tried it yet.


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## outofmytree (Jun 27, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I've got "On Rope" on order. I've gotta say, I posted this question in what I feel to be the right place. *And even still, I feel a little put down by a couple of the responses.* If I knew what books/material to get, I wouldn't have posted here. lol I'm forever amazed at people flesh.
> 
> Thank you and God bless,
> 
> Jeff



Hi Jeff. The danger in posting in a forum full of prefessionals is you will have your question properly answered and you may not like what you hear. The questions you have asked tell me, and apparently some others, that you lack many essential basic skills. It is possible that 1% of climbers can learn what they need from a book but the other 99% need to be shown by a skilled trainer. You need to spend some time and money taking a basic climbing course. Master simple drt and the benifits of more sophisticated techniques will become apparent. 

This is a dangerous industry. 



> The main problem with this forum is people criticizing instead of actually offering advice, mostly because I don't think they know the answer.



MTD you are entitled to your opinion. You are also completely mistaken.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 27, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Hi Jeff. The danger in posting in a forum full of prefessionals is you will have your question properly answered and you may not like what you hear.



lol I understand that, however, it was not like I, number 1 posted this in the "expert" category. Or number 2 have a problem with hearing most anything. It's one thing to give advice, it's another completely to criticize. In my experience the internet is a place where "everyone" is an expert, and not many want to help. I'm not surprised that this arena has similar qualities. I'm not saying there aren't helpful people.



outofmytree said:


> The questions you have asked tell me, and apparently some others, that you lack many essential basic skills.



I've been free climbing rocks for years, I've never thought much need for ropes until recently. Therefore, while experienced in climbing, I'm inexperienced in ropes. I had basic questions, that I was thinking could have simple answers, yet again, I'm to deal with the human side of things. 

I've read lots of posts on this message board, and I apologize if I'm not quite the expert as others. I'm curious though, have you never asked basic questions? I can't be an expert on everything. lol

Have a blessed day,

Jeff


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## outofmytree (Jun 27, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> You present yourself as one who wants to learn......
> 
> ................but it shows you are just here to whine!
> 
> You are being treated better than you deserve.


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## outofmytree (Jun 27, 2009)

GoE, I reread all the posts in this thread and could not find any direct criticism of your questions or of you. The closest I could find was a recommendation that, based on the questions you asked, a climbing course was your best option.

You will find that some posters here care enough about you to tell it like it is. At the risk of repeating myself, learn basic tree climbing from a qualified instructor and then go play. It is unfortunate that we need an injury/fatality forum but... we have one. Please please don't become another post in that forum.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 27, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> You present yourself as one who wants to learn......
> 
> ................but it shows you are just here to whine!
> 
> You are being treated better than you deserve.



Yup that's me, just asking questions, in the hopes that by page 3 I can whine. lol 

I thought we should treat everyone the same, with love, compassion, caring and understanding. No matter how they treat us. An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. Treated better than I deserve? So, I deserve to be treated worse, just because I state how I feel about something?

Of course, one could also read what a lot of people are posting about how harsh, and critical it can get on this board, and always expect the worst. lol but for the sake of uniformity and clarity in my mind, I won't. 

Again, I appreciate what help has been given, thank you all. Even the people who didn't really help, I thank you too, maybe I'll learn something from it one day. I can only hope.

Have a great day.

Jeff


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## Tree Pig (Jun 27, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> GoE, I reread all the posts in this thread and could not find any direct criticism of your questions or of you. The closest I could find was a recommendation that, based on the questions you asked, a climbing course was your best option.
> 
> You will find that some posters here care enough about you to tell it like it is. At the risk of repeating myself, learn basic tree climbing from a qualified instructor and then go play. It is unfortunate that we need an injury/fatality forum but... we have one. Please please don't become another post in that forum.



I think you may be referring to my response and your correct it wasnt meant to be an insult. But from his question it appeared that his knowledge level was very basic if non existent. You will see by the posts of most everyone in here (including me) that we are more willing to help anyone but dont want to see anyone get hurt. Your question honestly sounded to me like you were trying to Run befor you learn to Walk. My response was "find someone to teach you" meaning get someone to give you some 1 on 1 basic training (rock climbing doesnt count). 

The fact that you did not even understand some basic terms and theories in this post makes me believe even more that you need someone teaching you. 
This forum is meant to help you learn, expand techniques and further your knowledge. 
This forum is not meant to be your sole source of training and your only teacher, *ITS JUST AN AID*


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## sawinredneck (Jun 27, 2009)

And yet again, I will STRESS how dangerous and difficult it is trying to learn by yourself! One knot tied wrong, and you can be DEAD or paralyzed for life!
I was fortunate that someone showedme what I was doing wrong tying my Blakes hitch, and I didn't even know it was wrong!
I had a house guest a couple of weeks ago, he showed me how to properly tie a VT. Now that I know it, I like it and it's simplicity and plan to use it now.

AND SRT is VERY expensive and gear intensive!


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 29, 2009)

So, I took the advice of members here and talked to my brother. He's a Marine who used to be in their Mountain division.

I was talking to him about SRT and DRT, and he said that the DRT, with one rope, isn't really a DRT, it's a Doubled Rope technique, as opposed to the Double Rope Technique. 

I think I'm liking that. He says he just uses a prussic knot, above the Blake's, but a biner attached to a chain, then to his harness. And that is his safety. At the end of the Blake's, he ties a figure eight knot, to stop it from slipping. He said if in trees a lot, They only use 1/2 arbor rope, only like 6500lb test he said. 

Does this make sense? I'm not sure I see too many flaws with it. He also gave me a really great idea with a sling-shot and a 2oz sinker with 50lb spiderwire. Looked sound to me.

Thanks everyone for your endless patience. I'm like a struggling doctor, I have none.

Jeff


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 29, 2009)

I have a paint file that I just made, but its a little large I guess to attach.

I'll describe as best I can.

I take one end of the rope, and tie a Bowline to a carabiner, then clip it to my harness. I then take what line is after the bowline, and tie it to the opposite side of the rope, coming out of the tree, with a Blake's hitch. Seperate from all this, I tie a prussic loop to the same side of the line I tied the Blake's to. Attaching a carabiner to the prussic, and a climbing strap/chain, I use another carabiner to attach to my harness. So the prussic is above the blake's but on the same line, running back to my harness.

Thats the way he explained it. I gotta say, I was climbing about 15-20 feet with it on saturday, and it felt real tight. Looked simple and stable too.

Thanks everyone,

Jeff


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## arborist (Jun 29, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I have a paint file that I just made, but its a little large I guess to attach.
> 
> I'll describe as best I can.
> 
> I take one end of the rope, and tie a Bowline to a carabiner, then clip it to my harness. I then take what line is after the bowline, and tie it to the opposite side of the rope, coming out of the tree, with a Blake's hitch.



stop here.
FIRST,note where you should be tied into.
you want your rope around the main trunk of the tree,with a branch simply holding the rope from sliding down the trunk is best way i can describe it in writing anyway.making sure the trunk/branch is large enough to hold you.don't go to high(the type of tree is really important to understand.)
also making sure,it's not a tight crotch so that your rope binds-not to worry much tho.you figure that out once,and you'll never do it again lol.
NOW,with the tail end of left over over rope after your blakes.tie a figure 8.
the tail doesn't really slide with a blakes.but always.always.always.put an 8 here anyway.just like you place one at the end of the rope before going aloft.
its fast,easy free,safety insurance.you just do it.
now that your tied in.simply let go of the rope and work.this knot will NOT slide down the rope on its own.you have to slowly take it and pull it downward to start your decent.simply let go to stop again.the more you pull,the faster you descend.be careful!
here ya go:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2846623/how_to_tie_a_blakes_hitch_for_tree_climbing/

please be careful!
a good idea would be to at least pick up your phone book,and call a local tree service and see if you could meet with them in the morning.for insurance purposes,they may not invite you to a job site.but perhaps have a climber that could show you a few things first hand.
this would make a WORLD of difference,even if they don't enter a tree for you.

tips only!
not a climbing guide!


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 29, 2009)

Awesome. Looks like the way I been doing it. Does the bowline make sense?

Thanks again,

Jeff


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## canopyboy (Jun 29, 2009)

A bowline is one way to terminate the end of the rope to your saddle. However, I don't think it's the knot of choice for most people for this application. A figure 8 on a bight (the knot, not the metal dealie bobber....) works well and what I started with, or a double fisherman's is what I use now. Some like the triple fisheman's, and some like an anchor knot.

I think a lot of the questions you're asking could be answered with The Tree Climber's Companion. If you haven't got it yet, go down to your local saw dealer, they probably have it. I think it was under $20 last time I looked. He has a good knot section (both how to tie and when to use), as well as a good way to rig a split tail DRT setup using the Blake's. Read it twice, then practice tying yourself in without leaving the ground, untie, read it again, repeat. Trust me, it sinks in and makes sense after awhile. Good luck, Darwin can be a bit rough at times....


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 29, 2009)

My wife has me spending all our money on fireworks and explosives. Since we pay bills in advance, she wants it all to go to some party this weekend. I'm supposed to be working all week, too much to do, but I think I'm gonna swing down and grab one tomorrow. Rain in the AM, so I'll have a few minutes.

I like the figure eight. I'm not too bad with knots, so it should be a pretty sweet deal. Thanks

Jeff


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## canopyboy (Jun 29, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I think I'm gonna swing down and grab one tomorrow.



Might call 'em first. I know the Stihl saw shops around here seem to have them on hand. With the types of questions you're asking, it'll be the best money you can spend right now. Heck, come Saturday you'll probably be buried in it and forget about the fireworks....


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 29, 2009)

Haha I've spent countless hours making these fireworks. I've had them stored in my basement for the last 6 months almost. I doubt many will forget these. lol

I only frequent my stihl shop, it's only like a mile and a half from me.

Speaking of that, I just got one of their "new" chains, WOOOO, best $20 I've spent in a while. Amazed. I've cut a 49.5" dbh maple that was just light of 100' with it. the whole tree. Still sharp too. It's a hungry blade.

Thanks

Jeff


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## Tree Pig (Jun 29, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Awesome. Looks like the way I been doing it. Does the bowline make sense?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jeff



Bowline can be used but I dont really know anyone that does. Clove is all you need or as mentioned you can tie fishermans or buntline.

Oh yeah little known secret but if your good and know how to search it you can find tree climbers guide and tree climbers companion in .pdf file on the internet. To prevent getting any sponsors in an outrage I wont say anymore.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jun 29, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Bowline can be used but I dont really know anyone that does. Clove is all you need or as mentioned you can tie fishermans or buntline.





I think I'm kinda leaning towards a double fishermans, or a figure 8 on a bight, just makes sense to me. I'm gonna grab that book, tree climbers companion tomorrow.

Jeff


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## Tree Pig (Jun 29, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I think I'm kinda leaning towards a double fishermans, or a figure 8 on a bight, just makes sense to me. I'm gonna grab that book, tree climbers companion tomorrow.
> 
> Jeff



Well the companion will tell you to tie a Clove/Bunt/anchor/fishermans in that order. Not that either is preferred over the other just how they list them.


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## treemandan (Jun 29, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm kinda new to rope climbing the smart way. I've done many crazy, stupid things in the past to get the job done, so now I'm looking to do somethings safer.
> 
> ...



Don't matter, you are gonna hurt yourself no matter, don't let it bother ya, at least try not to.


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## outofmytree (Jun 30, 2009)

Over here the TAFE colleges teach either bowline with yosemite or figure 8 on a bight as termination knots. Whichever knot you prefer learn to tie it in your sleep. Same applies to your friction hitch which is, in this case, the Blakes. Practise, practise, practise and then practise some more. Good luck.


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## canopyboy (Jun 30, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> The knot *must* 'cinch up' on the biner and not move around. If the knot moves around it may end on the gate and the gate on a biner is a weak point.



Not sure about the MUST there. I make an effort not to speak in absolutes, there is usually more than one way to do anything -- even if you factor in safety. It is a must that you don't gate load a 'biner. Some people 'prefer' a cinching knot to the carabiner as this makes it harder to gate load it. But open loops like the 8 on a bight or a bowline with yosemite are fine too, you just need to check the 'biner orientation after putting slack into your system. 

I find when using my hitch climber that the fisherman's knot interferes with my hitch cord. There I still use a f8 on a bight in order to get the termination knot above the hitch. (Probably why they recommend a spliced eye for this.) I guess you could use one of their rubber band things to still keep the splice or loop tight on the 'biner. Of course, even with a cinching knot I've had the 'biner get itself jammed at the saddle tie-in such that the gate could be side loaded if not checked and corrected before reapplying the tension. I think a person needs to be paying attention to their carabiners regardless.


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## canopyboy (Jun 30, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Good point. "Must" was a bit too strong a word.
> 
> I find it a draw back to the hitch climber that spliced tress cords and climbing ropes are required for it to be at it's best. It adds a lot to the cost of what can be an almost cost free climbing system.



Yeah, I'm not completely sold on the hitch climber. I bought it, I've been using it, I kind of like it, but not sure I would buy it again if I had it to do over.


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## Bermie (Jul 2, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Good point. "Must" was a bit too strong a word.
> 
> I find it a draw back to the hitch climber that spliced tress cords and climbing ropes are required for it to be at it's best. It adds a lot to the cost of what can be an almost cost free climbing system.



Splices are the best but not absolutely required...I use a hitchclimber...my friction cord is spliced icetail in a VT but my climb line is not spliced. I use a double fishermans to tie it and clip my biner into the middle hole. This keeps the knot just far enough from the friction hitch that interference is minimal and all is well, put the biner in the top hole and the knot hits the friction hitch and makes for a scary day...

I REALLY like the hitchclimber...got there after using prussik loop, blake's, distel with a single pulley, distel with the hitchclimber, finally VT with the hitchclimber. Each change got better and better. With each change you make to your climbing system, some bits will work, some won't, it's a matter of tailoring to suit you, and that can have a lot to do with your weight, physique, type of climb line and hitch cord, the types of trees you climb and the kind of work you do.

Keep at it!


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## canopyboy (Jul 2, 2009)

Seems like I tried the center hole with a fisherman's early on with the hitchclimber and didn't like it for some reason. I know I run a pretty short eye-to-eye. But I think it's worth revisiting now. In the mean time, this is how I got around the problem without a spice and still using the top hole.







You're right, I'm always tweaking the system, each time it gets a bit more personal and a bit better.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 2, 2009)

*Hitch Climber?*



canopyboy said:


> Yeah, I'm not completely sold on the hitch climber. I bought it, I've been using it, I kind of like it, but not sure I would buy it again if I had it to do over.



I got the Fixe and am not completely sold on it. I've been thinking of trying the Hitch Climber and am interested in *why *you're _"not completely sold on the hitch climber"._

Your setup looks good. Which I2I are you using?


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## canopyboy (Jul 3, 2009)

I have the fixe and that worked well. The hitch climber works well too, just not sure if I think it was worth the extra money. We'll see with time if I ever want to go back though...

The i2i is 8mm bee line, been splicing them myself at 26" between eyes. This way I can get the eyes nice and tight as well as have my custom length. (30" is too long.) Costs about $7. Takes me about an hour.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=101918

Since that thread I've started whipping the eyes to keep the vectran fibers from fuzzing when taking on and off the biner. You can see the black, waxed electrical lacing cord I've used for that in the picture with my setup. Took that picture when it was still fresh on a short length of tachyon I sometimes hang in the sunroom to play with.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 3, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> I have the fixe and that worked well. The hitch climber works well too, just not sure if I think it was worth the extra money. We'll see with time if I ever want to go back though...
> 
> The i2i is 8mm bee line, been splicing them myself at 26" between eyes. This way I can get the eyes nice and tight as well as have my custom length. (30" is too long.) Costs about $7. Takes me about an hour.
> 
> ...



Nice work!!! I recognized the bee line. I thought you bought it. Yale makes very similar i2i's at 24" & 30". But, your work is better - their eye's aren't whipped - good idea - certainly worth some rep, but I'm outta bullets - maybe someone will rep for me.


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## canopyboy (Jul 3, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Nice work!!! I recognized the bee line. I thought you bought it. Yale makes very similar i2i's at 24" & 30". But, your work is better - their eye's aren't whipped - good idea - certainly worth some rep, but I'm outta bullets - maybe someone will rep for me.



Yep, I'm digging the whipped eyes. Seems to be holding up well and it just seems less vulnerable. But one of the reasons I've been following Moray's splicing tests closely.


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## robert549tree (Jul 14, 2009)

*distel with hitch climber*

whats the distel look like with the hitch climber? i been useing it with a reg micro pulley and a foot assender blaze climbing line spiced eye and 26" hrc eye to eye


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