# Heavy Equipment Guru Advice Needed



## cderekbower (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi. 
I have a fairly big land-clearing job. I have to remove the trees and stumps of about 95% of the trees on 50 acres. 
In Bolivia, two large bulldozers drive parallel to each other with a heavy chain or cable between them and the trees are pulled over. A chainsaw is not used.
Because I will be keeping 5 percent of the trees and because I can't afford the sort of soil compaction the bulldozers will cause I am hoping I can pull the trees over one at a time.
I think I have partly figured out how to do it.

1.A heavy steel pipe that a man can handle would be leaned up against the tree on a 45 degree angle. This pipe would have a spike coming off the top that would prevent the pipe from slipping off the tree. 
2. The tree would be surrounded by a large loop of heavy chain that one man can handle and the chain would be draped over the bottom of the steel pipe.
3. 180 degrees to the pipe a thick cable that can hook the chain would lead to a pulling machine. (winch, capstan, windlass)

With the weight of the pipe needed to not bend under the force of the chain, I may only be able to get the chain to grab the tree at a maximum of 15 ft above the ground. These are fairly large trees with 1 ft to 3 ft diameters and 15 feet does not give a huge amount of torque. Off the top of my head I feel like I would need about 20 tonnes of pull on my cable to pull the tree over. Since I have thousands of trees to pull over I can't waste time with any kind of elaborate set ups. For the biggest trees I can climb and pull from higher up, but mostly I want to stay on the ground and efficiently uproot trees. I can spend up to 15 000 US dollars on the set-up.

I have considered installing a 4000 lb winch (that pulls with 20 tonnes of force) on a heavy concrete foundation at the center of the 50 acres to pull all of the trees from this one spot, however this means I need a long long cable which irks me for some reason. I imagine the cable stretching like a rubber tube as it winds around the drum and the tree remaining vertical, some 300m away.

I am wondering if anyone has a more miniture and less expensive solution. I would like to be close to the tree with the pulling machine. I can move the pulling machine on a trailer towed by a tractor, but I envision the trailer and tractor being skidded toward the tree, not vice versa. Ideally I would have something motorized that a man can hook to a chain that encircles the base of an achoring tree. 

Oh, and by the way the 50 is being cleared for different trees, not a parking lot.


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## hammerlogging (Apr 19, 2009)

buy/rent a 30 or 40 ton excavator with a thumb on the bucket. Its all you'll need. Drive to tree. Push over (you can dig at the roots id its a tough one). Shake of root ball over hole. Have ground man buck off root ball and top. Pille logs to left, brush and roots to right. Drve to next tree. Make sense? Good luck.


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## M.R. (Apr 19, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> buy/rent a 30 or 40 ton excavator with a thumb on the bucket. Its all you'll need. Drive to tree. Push over (you can dig at the roots id its a tough one). Shake of root ball over hole. Have ground man buck off root ball and top. Pille logs to left, brush and roots to right. Drve to next tree. Make sense? Good luck.




Makes a lot of sense. 

Not to derail the thread as I haven't seen one work or have had any input on them. 
The Kobelco line of the ED ### or Blade Runner series looks- like it could be? well suited in this type of work.

http://www.kobelcoamerica.com/produ...&RL=ENNA&NavID=000004724403&line=000004792103


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## tlandrum (Apr 19, 2009)

sounds like extreme over kill for replanting. log it, burn it, and plant it. next would be use excavator to remove tree stump and all ,shake it ,buck it and grind all else with tub grinder. last would be log it and send in the forestry mulcher. job sounds like way more than a farm tractor is needed. unless you talking about really small trees,and have lots and lots of time to do the job.


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## Kunes (Apr 19, 2009)

I think if you would like more posts you should post in the Heavy Equipment Thread.

Just my 2c. Good Luck!


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## ak4195 (Apr 19, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> buy/rent a 30 or 40 ton excavator with a thumb on the bucket. Its all you'll need. Drive to tree. Push over (you can dig at the roots id its a tough one). Shake of root ball over hole. Have ground man buck off root ball and top. Pille logs to left, brush and roots to right. Drve to next tree. Make sense? Good luck.



Cat 320 with a long track or the equivilant Hitachi EX,2 buckets,digging bucket with teeth,and a GP to help your dozer grade,when the time comes.Make sure your groundman glows in the dark,lots of spare chain loops.
PUsh the tree over,you throw some top soil up the trunk.Everytime you pick it up again w/rootwad,more dirt goes higher,so nock down a handfull,preferably not on top of each other to much.BAck out,move over repeat.While your knocking over a new handfull,your groundie is stumping/topping.Move back over stack,gather up your stumps,do some more,groundie swaps sides,takes care of business.
Much more efficient than waiting for stumping every tree as you go.At some point (quite often)youll have to do some cleanup with the 'scavator,so the trusty groundie walks up a few hundred feet and starts felling working back to your area,preferably working with your lay.
When's beer:30? I remember Costa Rica had some excellant lagers .

ak4195


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## wvlogger (Apr 19, 2009)

track oe is going to be the only way to go


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## Metals406 (Apr 19, 2009)

M.R. said:


> Makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Not to derail the thread as I haven't seen one work or have had any input on them.
> The Kobelco line of the ED ### or Blade Runner series looks- like it could be? well suited in this type of work.



I've operated an ED150... Very nice machine... Fast hydraulics. The 10' 6-way blade makes for quick work, where as a cat or loader would be needed.


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## cderekbower (Apr 19, 2009)

*lost in the jargon*

I am very thankful to receive input and advice from men who know so much more than me about this type of work than I do. I am a little lost in the jargon though, like I have just stepped onto a whaling ship 300 yrs ago and am being advised to _trent the halyard aft_. I will try to get through the strange words and understand what this advice actually means. 
It would be good if an excavator can push over large trees... can it really? I am assuming your advice is experience-based. This project needs a massive amount of excavator work after the tree removal. It would be super if I could just buy an excavator and do everything with it.
Thank you again, guys. I am very happy to finally find valuable input.


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## 2dogs (Apr 20, 2009)

When I was a kid we used 2 dozers and an anchor chain between them, sometimes with anti-sub net floats connected to the chain, to clear brush. We never used it with trees though. 

How about a D7 with a brush rake? It will uproot small trees and pile them for burning.


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## Metals406 (Apr 20, 2009)

cderekbower said:


> I am very thankful to receive input and advice from men who know so much more than me about this type of work than I do. I am a little lost in the jargon though, like I have just stepped onto a whaling ship 300 yrs ago and am being advised to _trent the halyard aft_. I will try to get through the strange words and understand what this advice actually means.
> It would be good if an excavator can push over large trees... can it really? I am assuming your advice is experience-based. This project needs a massive amount of excavator work after the tree removal. It would be super if I could just buy an excavator and do everything with it.
> Thank you again, guys. I am very happy to finally find valuable input.



Here I am scrubbing out small trees (up to 13") with a Cat 312 C-L to make way for a foundation... It's a 29,000 pound machine. There were larger trees I pushed over, but I don't have pics of that. The hydraulics were slower than other machines I've run--but it worked well.

If you want to be efficient, push the trees over with the excavator, and cut the root-wad off after it's down... That way you're not fighting to dig stumps. Raise the bucket (teeth out) up the tree, rest the bucket on the trunk and drive forward. Watch that you don't snap a top out of the tree and have it land on your head!

An excavator is far more efficient, in my opinion, than a dozer for such work.


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## ak4195 (Apr 20, 2009)

I wonder what the chances of finding a good well serviced mid sized 'xcavater (2 would be even better)are in belize,along with D-8 to keep it company.My impression of central america wasnt xactly "chop chop hurry hurry",course that wasnt a problem,but we were on vacation.
Seein how we're over 15 hrs of daylight here I suspect your creepin up on winter time,is there a rainy season?That could make things a bit messy

ak


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## cderekbower (Apr 20, 2009)

*moving monsters*



ak4195 said:


> I wonder what the chances of finding a good well serviced mid sized 'xcavater (2 would be even better)are in belize,along with D-8 to keep it company.My impression of central america wasnt xactly "chop chop hurry hurry",course that wasnt a problem,but we were on vacation.
> Seein how we're over 15 hrs of daylight here I suspect your creepin up on winter time,is there a rainy season?That could make things a bit messy
> 
> ak



I would have to buy the excavator in the USA and have it delivered to Belize. Not something I am thrilled to have to do. Perhaps this is why I wanted to use a huge winch. It is easier to ship something that weighs 4000lb than 30 000 lbs. But the excavator sounds perfect for my job. I have months of earthmoving excavator work to do as well. I just hope I don't have to work another year to get the money needed to get this project rolling.


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## cderekbower (Apr 20, 2009)

*Heavy Hidden things above*



Metals406 said:


> Here I am scrubbing out small trees (up to 13") with a Cat 312 C-L to make way for a foundation... It's a 29,000 pound machine. There were larger trees I pushed over, but I don't have pics of that. The hydraulics were slower than other machines I've run--but it worked well.
> 
> If you want to be efficient, push the trees over with the excavator, and cut the root-wad off after it's down... That way you're not fighting to dig stumps. Raise the bucket (teeth out) up the tree, rest the bucket on the trunk and drive forward. Watch that you don't snap a top out of the tree and have it land on your head!
> 
> An excavator is far more efficient, in my opinion, than a dozer for such work.



When felling with chainsaw in Belize, we all run at about 110 degrees to the fall of the tree because as the tree falls it drags a hundred thick woody vines behind it and some of these vines are supporting big dead limbs that other trees have had to shed when being attacked by these vines... More than once I have been surprised at the size of debris that have fallen from high in the canopy. I imagine that I could weld some steel onto the cab to protect me, but what about the machine? Is it sensitive to being whacked by heavy falling branches and broken off tree tops? Sorry if that is a stupid question. I know nothing about excavators.


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## cderekbower (Apr 20, 2009)

*attachment test*

this is an attachment test


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## hammerlogging (Apr 20, 2009)

The vione hazard is an all too familiar concept here in the SE US. But, I can imagine you have it worse in the jungle. The already stout cab and body can be augmented with a "forestry Package" or you could get a local welder to augment the cab with protection.

Caterpillar is pretty darn world wide, I'd see that they don't have a network down that way.


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## M.R. (Apr 20, 2009)

cderekbower said:


> I am very thankful to receive input and advice from men who know so much more than me about this type of work than I do. I am a little lost in the jargon though, like I have just stepped onto a whaling ship 300 yrs ago and am being advised to _trent the halyard aft_. I will try to get through the strange words and understand what this advice actually means.
> It would be good if an excavator can push over large trees... can it really? I am assuming your advice is experience-based. This project needs a massive amount of excavator work after the tree removal. It would be super if I could just buy an excavator and do everything with it.
> Thank you again, guys. I am very happy to finally find valuable input.



The equipment jargon is pretty straight forward & can be a bit different by region. It's the forestry regultory/consultent [sp?] types that can really Dazzle & try to Baffle.


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## Metals406 (Apr 20, 2009)

cderekbower said:


> this is an attachment test



Yes, you can buy or make a 'forestry package' for the excavator, to protect the operator and machine... Think of it like having all of your bones on the outside of your skin... An 'exoskeleton' if you will.

A quick-connect log grapple would be a handy tool to have with the machine, but not necessary.

Click on pictures:





A rake/grapple attachment is also very handy...





The protective structure on the cab is also known as FOPS... "Falling Object Protective Structure".


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## super3 (Apr 20, 2009)

I've cleared several hundred acres over the years and a 200 class (or larger) excavator with a hydraulic thumb and a loader with a grapple is by far the most efficient and cost affective of all.


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## cderekbower (Apr 21, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> buy/rent a 30 or 40 ton excavator with a thumb on the bucket. Its all you'll need. Drive to tree. Push over (you can dig at the roots id its a tough one). Shake of root ball over hole. Have ground man buck off root ball and top. Pille logs to left, brush and roots to right. Drve to next tree. Make sense? Good luck.



I looked for an example of this on youtube and sure enough I saw just what you described. I am now fully convinced that this is the technique to use. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Now I have to figure out how to ship a big excavator to Belize.


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## Wolfking42084 (Apr 21, 2009)

Don't know if this will help at all. Never been to belize.


GENTRAC BELIZE
PHILLIP GOLDSON INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT ROAD
LADYVILLE, BELIZE DISTRICT
Belize


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## Metals406 (Apr 21, 2009)

cderekbower said:


> I looked for an example of this on youtube and sure enough I saw just what you described. I am now fully convinced that this is the technique to use. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Now I have to figure out how to ship a big excavator to Belize.



Check out this website... They do Aqua Logging too... Pretty neat stuff.

http://www.belizehardwood.com/process/


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## JungleMist (May 21, 2009)

cderekbower said:


> I looked for an example of this on youtube and sure enough I saw just what you described. I am now fully convinced that this is the technique to use. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Now I have to figure out how to ship a big excavator to Belize.



I have dealt with Hyde for shipping and have been very satisfied. I have not shipped any vehicles or equipment, but they say they will ship them. They ship out of Port Everglades (near Miami, Fl). Their agent in Belize City is Caribbean Shipping Agencies. (501) 227-7396 / 227-3015.

For customs brokerage Universal Customs Brokers is fairly decent. (501) 223-3582 / 223-2310.


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## KD57 (May 21, 2009)

I have been to Belize, and after seeing the forestry growth there, I think the excavator would be the best choice too. It would be more useful than a dozer.


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## ASD (May 21, 2009)

M.R. said:


> Makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Not to derail the thread as I haven't seen one work or have had any input on them.
> The Kobelco line of the ED ### or Blade Runner series looks- like it could be? well suited in this type of work.
> ...




We love our ED-190


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## Kunes (May 21, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> The protective structure on the cab is also known as FOPS... "Falling Object Protective Structure".]



what's ROPS Rollover?


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## Metals406 (May 21, 2009)

Kunes said:


> what's ROPS Rollover?



Yes, ROPS= "Roll Over Protective Structure."


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