# Can I Cant A Cant, or Cant I Cant A Cant,, The Question Is A Little Peavey,,,,,,,,,,,



## SweetMK (Feb 7, 2022)

I was at a local surplus dealer,, he had some wood handles (axe, maul, etc,,,) and I was picking through them,,
I noticed a CANT handle, it was $5,, it was so large in diameter, I did not recognize it.
The guy told me what it was,, so I figured I would try to make a BIG cant,,
I borrowed a neighbors cant,, and so far I sort of duplicated his, as far as dimensions, etc,,







The hook turned out pretty nice, it is one inch solid round,, a little beefier than the neighbors.
I bent the steel bar with my wood splitter.






The rest of the parts are mostly just sawing of steel.
I was getting ready to weld the parts and I thought of the leg that will hold a log off the ground,, so back to the saw,, more parts,,
(I still have to "whittle" the cant pole a little so that the hook bracket will fit)






I still have a couple questions,,,
How far should the little steel tooth stick out at the end of the cant?
My neighbors only sticks out 1/4",, that seems awfully short,,
Should I make it longer??

Should that little steel tooth at the end of the cant have "points" ??

Should I connect the tooth at the end of the cant with the bracket that holds the hook with about 8 inches of steel bar??
Some are connected, some are not.

The bar I found to lift the cant off the ground is about 8 inches long,,
Does that seem to be high enough, ?? Should it be higher? lower??

*Any insight would be greatly appreciated,, *
Thanks for looking!


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## ken morgan (Feb 8, 2022)

From a design standpoint the longer you make the leg the less mechanical advantage you will have, IE it will be hard to lift the log with. 8" to me sounds fair much longer and it becomes harder to lift the wood, much shorter and you risk dropping the tip of the bar into the dirt when you are tired. if you can't keep the tip of the bar out of the dirt with 8" you could always bring a small piece of plywood to toss under to prevent using your freshly sharpened chain as an excavation device


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## Woodslasher (Feb 8, 2022)

First off, great score on the handle! $5 is a freakin' steal! Now, the cant hooks I've seen have 4 or so teeth on the lower bit. You can make the lower tooth longer to try it, if you don't like it grind a bit more off and try it again. Lastly, I wouldn't connect the tooth with the bracket, I'd just pin the tooth to the handle. I have a cant hook with the stand, I wish it was a plain hook as I've just never found the stand to be all that handy and I wish the haft was another foot or so longer. I prefer a straight peavey personally, but whatever floats your boat. I couldn't find a cheap haft so I trimmed up a bigleaf maple sapling for my peavey and currently it's going on 4 years problem free. I wouldn't sell it for the world, and I don't find myself missing either the point or a "tooth".


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## SweetMK (Feb 8, 2022)

I got a little more done today,,






i changed the mount for the lifting foot, now, when I remove the lifting foot, all that will be left is a 1 inch piece of 1 inch round stock.
The mechanical tube will be welded to the rest of the foot.

As it sits, the height with the foot is 10 inches,, if i want it lower, I will bend the foot "leg" a little more.

I sharpened the tooth at the end of the cant handle, it is almost razor sharp now.






I whittled down the end of the cant to fit the 1.50" I.D. mechanical tube.

I think I have 4 holes left to drill, two to squeeze the bracket closed, one for the foot at the end of the cant, and one for the lift leg/foot.






Now, the hard part,,, sanding the cant handle,, I may stick it in the metal lathe,, and spin it.


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## Bearcreek (Feb 8, 2022)

Looks good. Wouldn't mess with the leg myself, but to each his own. I could see it being useful for some folks. FYI, that's a cant hook, not a cant. A "cant" is a squared off log. A beam, basically. It's what a "cant hook" was designed to turn.


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## SweetMK (Feb 8, 2022)

Thanks, Bearcreek,, that is good info on the tool,,
now my new dilemma,, 
Since I will probably never use the tool to turn a cant,, I cant know if the tool is still a cant hook,, ?

I am planning on making another attachment that will connect to the pin sticking down for the log lifter leg.

If I bend another 1" pin just right,, and point it,, 
such that the point sticks down from the bottom of the tool, I will pretty much have a peavey.
I really doubt I have a need for a peavey, I never stack long logs, which is what I have heard is the peavey's expertise,,
It is just part of the fun.

That will wait, until I test this much of the tool,, I have about a hundred feet of oak, and probably 60 feet of locust,, ready to cut.

*Another question for the woodworkers,,* (I try to only cut wood with a linked tool, and otherwise avoid it)
A 90+ year old gentleman gave me a VERY old can of boiled linseed oil,, he says it is the real stuff.
I have put it on a couple axe handles,, it is nice,,

*Is linseed oil the best treatment for the cant hooks handle??*


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## ken morgan (Feb 8, 2022)

looks pretty friggin sweet to me! make sure you oil the wood to prevent drying and cracking. 

edit just saw your last post...yes linseed would work great.


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## Bearcreek (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Thanks, Bearcreek,, that is good info on the tool,,
> now my new dilemma,,
> Since I will probably never use the tool to turn a cant,, I cant know if the tool is still a cant hook,, ?


How a tool is used doesn't change what it is. If I pound a nail with a wrench, it's still a wrench. 


SweetMK said:


> If I bend another 1" pin just right,, and point it,,
> such that the point sticks down from the bottom of the tool, I will pretty much have a peavey.
> I really doubt I have a need for a peavey, I never stack long logs, which is what I have heard is the peavey's expertise,,
> It is just part of the fun.


They both work well for turning logs. I've never heard that a peavey is better for long logs. Can't think of a reason why that would be unless it's because it can more easily be jammed between logs to pry them apart where a cant hook won't. A cant hook can be used to grab and drag logs where a peavey won't. A peavey can be stuck in the dirt to stand it up so you don't misplace it in the leaves or get the handle covered in mud. In most cases, they're interchangeable, but sometimes one is nicer than the other.


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## TRTermite (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> I got a little more done today,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Take a piece of broken glass and gloves and scrape it.. Your first pictures showed negative hook, you don't want the hook dubbed off or your bite won't be there.


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## TRTermite (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Thanks, Bearcreek,, that is good info on the tool,,
> now my new dilemma,,
> Since I will probably never use the tool to turn a cant,, I cant know if the tool is still a cant hook,, ?
> 
> ...


You might boil it in bees wax makes it heavier but no moistier left in the wood.


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## SweetMK (Feb 9, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Take a piece of broken glass and gloves and scrape it.. Your first pictures showed negative hook, you don't want the hook dubbed off or your bite won't be there.


I was concerned about that,, Several of these tools that I have seen are both ways.
I can adjust the position of the hook bracket,, and I can drill a new hole in the hook, at a point a little closer to the hook tip.

I think the hook position will be partly determined by how much I bent the tip of the hook.

I have used a cant hook that would not bite,, because the hook tip was not pointed at the pivot enough,,
so, I will try it, before I change it.


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## SweetMK (Feb 9, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> You might boil it in bees wax makes it heavier but no moistier left in the wood.


That is new to me,, longevity is the desire,, I may have to look into that,,,,,,, THANKS!!


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## TRTermite (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> I was concerned about that,, Several of these tools that I have seen are both ways.
> I can adjust the position of the hook bracket,, and I can drill a new hole in the hook, at a point a little closer to the hook tip.
> 
> I think the hook position will be partly determined by how much I bent the tip of the hook.
> ...


I was not dictating (I hope) but you are going at it like I would. My Dad ruined more than one shovel and cant hook tip with his way of (Sharpening) thinking. The only thing I should add is if you are using hot rolled steel the point will dull or bend easier than most people will imagine. Cold rolled will help but some better grade is above my paygrade of advice.


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## SweetMK (Feb 9, 2022)

The tip of the handle is made out of a backhoe bucket tooth,, when cut with a Porta-Band,, occasionally sparks fly off the blade.
THAT part should be adequate.

As far as the hook, I will try it as is, my hook is 2X the size of a typical cant hook. It is strong.

I made the hook out of heavier steel, because I see so many videos of people not being able to get the hook to grab.
They step on the hook, and everything else,,,,,,,,,,
Hopefully, the extra weight will push the hook into the wood a little better.

If the hook tip bends,, I have hard facing weld rod,, VERY high alloy, a few beads ought to stiffen the tooth,,


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## TRTermite (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> The tip of the handle is made out of a backhoe bucket tooth,, when cut with a Porta-Band,, occasionally sparks fly off the blade.
> THAT part should be adequate.
> 
> As far as the hook, I will try it as is, my hook is 2X the size of a typical cant hook. It is strong.
> ...


I used to be able to make a Cant Hook sing and seldom used a peavey. I still know how they work but too old, fat ,and LAZEE to worry about it. Once you get the hang of them You will be impressed. I bought my first 30" from A L Boggs of Springfield Mo .In 1976 I have never had to sharpen it.


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## Okie (Feb 9, 2022)

Just my 2 cents. (from cant hook experience when cutting the larger firewood logs
I happen to have two cant hooks with good handles that I got at different times dirt cheap at garage sales.
I cut lots of firewood.
I use both cants often and was going to put a lifting leg on one (I have welder, cutting torch and could easily do such) *BUT*
Some of the main tree trunks I get into are large and require splitting after cutting to firewood length.
For me *cutting firewood *in usually deep leaves and *rocks underneath the logs* or main trimmed tree trunks my two cant hooks really work better if I just cut some (usually several) smaller limbs and place beside the larger firewood logs, roll the trimmed log unto the limbs to hold the log off the ground and cut firewood the full length of the log once it's up off the ground. If it's a really big log I sometimes cut part way through before i roll it onto the limbs and I make a upsweep cut from the previous kerf if it looks like it might bind the saw doing a downward cut.
A lifting foot* would not be user friendly* for me* if I only had one cant hook* because the cant with leg is trapped under a heavy log and require lots of grunt to get a heavy log onto the leg and off the ground.


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## rwoods (Feb 9, 2022)

SweetMK, report back on your use of the stand. I see lots of folks that have that feature but has yet to see anyone use it, I tried one once and found it useless for the log at hand. It seems it would be handy if they work.

Ron


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## Brufab (Feb 9, 2022)

Nice work on the project. My dad made a longer hook or whatever the term is for bigger logs it sorta works but not as we planned it would. As you said real life test will determine what will work best in your project. Thanks for sharing, looks great!


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## SS396driver (Feb 9, 2022)

Very nice work . I would use just the BLO on a hand tool . BLO soaks into the wood as apposed to bee's wax or carnauba that coats the surface. Not fun trying to hold onto a waxed handle .


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## Oletrapper (Feb 10, 2022)

rwoods said:


> SweetMK, report back on your use of the stand. I see lots of folks that have that feature but has yet to see anyone use it, I tried one once and found it useless for the log at hand. It seems it would be handy if they work.
> 
> Ron


I purchased a Stihl stand for my short 3' cant hook years ago. It works well for small logs. The Stihl stand is designed to be used on THEIR cant hook handle. Mostly the same diameter from tip all the way up to the top. There is no way I could put it on my 4' 6" cant handle because of the handle diameter. 
Hope yours works as intended. Looks great! OT


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## Woodchuckels (Feb 10, 2022)

Excellent job SweetMK, making your own tools is half the fun of getting out in the woods and cutting.


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## Hermio (Feb 10, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> How a tool is used doesn't change what it is. If I pound a nail with a wrench, it's still a wrench.
> 
> They both work well for turning logs. I've never heard that a peavey is better for long logs. Can't think of a reason why that would be unless it's because it can more easily be jammed between logs to pry them apart where a cant hook won't. A cant hook can be used to grab and drag logs where a peavey won't. A peavey can be stuck in the dirt to stand it up so you don't misplace it in the leaves or get the handle covered in mud. In most cases, they're interchangeable, but sometimes one is nicer than the other.


I have a peavey and a cant hook. I prefer the cant hook, as it does not tend to slide across the log while turning.


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## SweetMK (Feb 10, 2022)

Well the cant is finished,, I guess I can make a cant hook, but, it will be a while before it ever touches a cant.







It tossed that 12" X 12 foot long piece of Locust anywhere I wanted it to go,,, effortlessly.
Setting next to it is a pickaroon, that I built at the same time. It took three tries to grind the end shape where it would work.
I may thin the tip of the pickaroon,, a little more.

Here is the cant biting a 24" oak that my SIL swears he is gonna mill,,, "some day" LOL!!






The cant easily moved that log,, a little,, it is surrounded,,

That oak in the above pic is setting on a ~8 inch hickory,, surprisingly, the pickaroon penetrated the hickory effortlessly.






So, this project is done,, thanks for spending a few days guiding me through this project,,
I am OK with a welding rod,, but,, normally, I only stuff wood in a fire,,


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## Bearcreek (Feb 11, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Well the cant is finished,, I guess I can make a cant hook, but, it will be a while before it ever touches a cant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe you misunderstood me before. There are no cants in those pictures. A cant is a squared off log.


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## SweetMK (Feb 11, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> Maybe you misunderstood me before. There are no cants in those pictures. A cant is a squared off log.


Exactly, that is why I said it might be a LONG WHILE before my cant hook ever touches a cant..
it may never touch a cant,, Thanks!!


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## Okie (Feb 11, 2022)

Good job on yours.
Stamp your name into the bracket.
Paint the pickaroon bright org or lime green.
I started adding some flo org paint to my tools that I use in the woods especially ends of my log chains. Some tools are hard to find if you miss them couple weeks later knowing you left them in the woods SOMEWHERE. 

picture of a good one.




__





Pickaroon.com


Our company has manufactured Pickaroons for over 40 years. We have always stood by our product and feel we produce the best of its kind. Our Pickaroons are 100% made in USA.



www.pickaroon.com





My cant's have about 3 or 4, about 1/4 inch deep, coarse grooves (teeth) ground (cut) into the steel cross piece on the end of the handle and the coarse teeth give it a good bite and chips off the bark easier as compared to your solid one. (reduces the chance of slipping as it gets a bite on the bark at the very end of the handle)


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## rwoods (Feb 11, 2022)

Have you tested the stand? Your geometry looks better than the one I tried to use.

Ron


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## SweetMK (Feb 11, 2022)

rwoods said:


> Have you tested the stand? Your geometry looks better than the one I tried to use.
> 
> Ron


Yea, that was the first thing I did,, but, the pic was not great, so I did not show it before,,






The cant would work on a 20",, maybe a little bigger. I was watching where the C/G was as I rolled the log up on the cant.

At first, before I tried it, I thought I might have to bend the leg a little more,, but, it did not need it,,


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## Cricket (Feb 11, 2022)

Okie said:


> Good job on yours.
> Stamp your name into the bracket.
> Paint the pickaroon bright org or lime green.
> I started adding some flo org paint to my tools that I use in the woods especially ends of my log chains. Some tools are hard to find if you miss them couple weeks later knowing you left them in the woods SOMEWHERE.
> ...


I am the proud owner of three pickaroons because it took me that long to learn to paint the damn things.


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## Cricket (Feb 11, 2022)

ken morgan said:


> From a design standpoint the longer you make the leg the less mechanical advantage you will have, IE it will be hard to lift the log with. 8" to me sounds fair much longer and it becomes harder to lift the wood, much shorter and you risk dropping the tip of the bar into the dirt when you are tired. if you can't keep the tip of the bar out of the dirt with 8" you could always bring a small piece of plywood to toss under to prevent using your freshly sharpened chain as an excavation device


And if you are 5' tall and weight 125#, if you make it stand up too high, you'll just dangle pathetically from the end of the handle until someone heavier comes along to rescue you.


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## SweetMK (Feb 11, 2022)

Cricket said:


> And if you are 5' tall and weight 125#, if you make it stand up too high, you'll just dangle pathetically from the end of the handle until someone heavier comes along to rescue you.


I am 6'7",,, 260 pounds,, I tried a 42" cant hook, I thought I was gonna have to get down on my knees to use it,,
The one I built is 48",, just barely long enough,, but the lifting foot raises it when you are elevating a log to cut.

So, it seems like with the elevating foot, it is the right height,, for ME,, that might not be true for "normal" people,,


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## Hermio (Feb 12, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Well the cant is finished,, I guess I can make a cant hook, but, it will be a while before it ever touches a cant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful job on the cant hook! The pickaroon looks a little heavy to use for lifting and throwing logs.


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## SweetMK (Feb 12, 2022)

Hermio said:


> Beautiful job on the cant hook! The pickaroon looks a little heavy to use for lifting and throwing logs.


That pickaroon is two sizes of 1/8" wall steel tubing,
The rectangular half was added so that the direction of the tool has "feel"
The square part was added because it fit over the 1" solid round bar.

The last 6" has the solid round bar inside for inertia to drive the pick into the wood.
It is also there so the bolt going through the end has something besides thin wall tube for support.

The bolt is a tooling hold down bolt for a milling machine,, it is harder than Grade 8.

The entire tool is actually rather light.

Now,, the cant hook is no lightweight,,
your 10 year old grandson is NOT gonna carry it for you!! LOL!!


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## Hermio (Feb 12, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> That pickaroon is two sizes of 1/8" wall steel tubing,
> The rectangular half was added so that the direction of the tool has "feel"
> The square part was added because it fit over the 1" solid round bar.
> 
> ...


How did you know I had a 10 year old grandson? (He would try to carry it!)


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## SweetMK (Feb 12, 2022)

Hermio said:


> How did you know I had a 10 year old grandson? (He would try to carry it!)


I guessed,, because I have several around that age,,


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## Wow (Feb 12, 2022)

Okie said:


> Just my 2 cents. (from cant hook experience when cutting the larger firewood logs
> I happen to have two cant hooks with good handles that I got at different times dirt cheap at garage sales.
> I cut lots of firewood.
> I use both cants often and was going to put a lifting leg on one (I have welder, cutting torch and could easily do such) *BUT*
> ...


I do EXACTLY the same thing. People see me Rolling logs, running a big saw and when I say I'm only 75 they can't believe my age. I love hard work. Im not hurting for money but I get a great deal of joy out of working, building, creating, learning, taking classes (now on line) and using mind and hands. After getting my Associates degree in Electrical I built a 120 volt ac stick welder from scrap Microwaves. I bought a few parts total cost to me 16 dollars. I didn't need another welding machine I have a Lincoln welder. I love the little machine. It's handy and is amazing on light metal. I wouldn't call myself a normal person. I'm gifted. Designed my own sailboat, built it included the sail. Studied on line taught myself how to sail. Boy that's fun. Had to stop teaching Square Dancing due to back problems but my life is full. Building wedges, and other things appeal to my zest for creating. I'm sure there are some guys on this group a lot like that too. It doesn't take long to make a nice wedge. Last night In my spare time, I made 4 more. It doesn't take long and I smiled as I thought. That was a quick 20 bucks. Wooden wedges made out of Oak don't seem to last as long as Elm, Hickory and Persimmon. I've still got a few very old ones. I've broke VERY FEW. I'd still have plenty if I'd stop giving them away.


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## Cricket (Feb 13, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> I am 6'7",,, 260 pounds,, I tried a 42" cant hook, I thought I was gonna have to get down on my knees to use it,,
> The one I built is 48",, just barely long enough,, but the lifting foot raises it when you are elevating a log to cut.
> 
> So, it seems like with the elevating foot, it is the right height,, for ME,, that might not be true for "normal" people,,


Sounds like we're both "not normal" people, just at opposite ends of the spectrum.


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## TRTermite (Mar 22, 2022)

SS396driver said:


> Very nice work . I would use just the BLO on a hand tool . BLO soaks into the wood as apposed to bee's wax or carnauba that coats the surface. Not fun trying to hold onto a waxed handle .


You need to get the bees wax very hot yet it has a low flash point the wax will displace most of the moisture in the wood. I was thinking about honey hive boxes but one downside is the extra weight gain in the wood


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## TRTermite (Mar 22, 2022)

Hermio said:


> I have a peavey and a cant hook. I prefer the cant hook, as it does not tend to slide across the log while turning.


 Agree with you and I can use the cant hook to lit the end of a log (within reason) to shuffle it one way or another. Lots of options come with experience. I have even scratched my back on occasion.


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## j-jock (Jul 29, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> Looks good. Wouldn't mess with the leg myself, but to each his own. I could see it being useful for some folks. FYI, that's a cant hook, not a cant. A "cant" is a squared off log. A beam, basically. It's what a "cant hook" was designed to turn.


As a kid, I was a cantor in a five man mill, and according to what I learned about the terminology in central BC in the 50s, your description is correct. It is kind of fun, telling people I used to do a job that doesn't exist anymore.


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## Wow (Jul 29, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> I got a little more done today,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I came up dirt poor.. Early in childhood I watched my uncles making all kinds of wooden handles..Poor people learn a lot of tricks. I've used a LOT of broken window pane glass and always wear a GLOVE if you an afford one..Glass scrapped with the grain can remove a LOT of unwanted wood.. Kinda like a Spoke Shave.. These mallet handles were glass shaped..


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## j-jock (Jul 29, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Agree with you and I can use the cant hook to lit the end of a log (within reason) to shuffle it one way or another. Lots of options come with experience. I have even scratched my back on occasion.


Back in the 50s, the cant hooks at the outfit I worked for in central BC, did not have a dog at the end of the handle. I can't remember ever having an issue, hooking and turning large or small logs. We handled a lot of prime logs, that were 4 ft in diameter, and I had no problem handling them by myself without using the half moons.


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## TRTermite (Jul 30, 2022)

j-jock said:


> Back in the 50s, the cant hooks at the outfit I worked for in central BC, did not have a dog at the end of the handle. I can't remember ever having an issue, hooking and turning large or small logs. We handled a lot of prime logs, that were 4 ft in diameter, and I had no problem handling them by myself without using the half moons.


I have had a few brewskis, so maybe tomorrow I will ply a few questions... I have always been impressed with what a cant hook can do in the hands of some one that knows what they are doing..


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## Hermio (Jul 30, 2022)

j-jock said:


> As a kid, I was a cantor in a five man mill, and according to what I learned about the terminology in central BC in the 50s, your description is correct. It is kind of fun, telling people I used to do a job that doesn't exist anymore.


What songs did you sing in the mill?


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## CDElliott (Jul 31, 2022)

j-jock said:


> As a kid, I was a cantor in a five man mill, and according to what I learned about the terminology in central BC in the 50s, your description is correct. It is kind of fun, telling people I used to do a job that doesn't exist anymore.


A cantor is also a choir leader in a synagogue. ;<)


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## j-jock (Jul 31, 2022)

CDElliott said:


> A cantor is also a choir leader in a synagogue. ;<)


The only time I did any singing at my job, was when the forklift driver dropped the logs onto the loading deck from a height of 5 ft. That time, I had to dive under the ramp to save my precious hide, because the idiot stalled the forklift while still moving forward, and the leaking hydraulic cylinders allowed the logs to drop from a height of 5 ft onto the ramp. The logs bounced right over my safety log, and actually took out the carriage. Nobody was particularly happy. 
I didn't notice until the end of the day, but I actually lost my wrist watch during the episode. Never did find it. 
No problem staying fit at that job.
Bob


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