# PSG Caddy Problems. Short Heat Times



## 1stmale (Feb 3, 2011)

I have a PSG caddy that I installed a couple of weeks ago and I have not been very satisfied as of yet. I am hoping that I am doing something wrong and you guys can help me.

I previously had a USStove HotBlast 1400. The reason I upgraded to the Caddy was because of the tax rebate and the fact that it would burn less wood. 

My instillation consists of a Caddy installed in parallel to the propane furnace connected to the supply and return with 16" round ducts. I have dampers installed to prevent back feeding. I have a 32' flue and 2 90s coming off the back of the furnace connected to a T at the base of the flue. I have the limit switch installed where the manual instructs and I have been playing with the setting. Right not is is set for on at 160 and off at 100. 

I primarily burn Elm as that is what is readily available here in eastern Nebraska.

The problem I have been having is one of short heat output times. Last night I loaded up the firebox and went to bed with the thermostat set a 65 and the temp in the house at 67. When I woke up the temperature was 55 in the house. This never happened with my HotBlast. I had plenty of coals to get the fire going again but it took 6 hours to get the house up to temp again. 

What I have observed is that I can get a lot of heat out of the ducts when there is a roaring fire in the firebox. as soon as the roaring fire dies down I get little to no heat out the registers. This roaring fire last about 1 hour then if I do not reload the fire with fresh wood to sustain the roaring fire the temp in the house will start to drop. 

I am willing to entertain that the Elm may be part of the problem as it is a softer wood however why do I not get the same amount of heat from this stove as I did the HotBlast 1400. When the roaring fire died down in the HotBlast I got hours of nice warm air from the vents. 

I live in a 2 story form house and the furnace is installed in the basement and is tied to the ductwork for the first floor. The first floor is 1000sqft the upstairs is heated by a separate electric unit installed in the attic. 

As of now I am very disappointed in the performance of this stove and it seams like the EPA is at it again making a furnace that burns more completely but does not produce usable heat. This in my mind is not efficiency the is just complete combustion.


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## laynes69 (Feb 3, 2011)

We heat with a Caddy, and we get 8 hours of heat from our furnace even with a call from the thermostat. We are heating a larger home with ours. I load our furnace at 9:30pm set the thermostat to 71 and wake to 70 with temperatures in the single digits at 5:30am with a nice coal bed. We have a 32' flue also. Have you measured your draft speeds? You will need a barometric damper set to .04"-.06". Also the furnace needs good dry seasoned wood. Anything but and the heat output will drop. Are you getting good secondaries? If your running the draft wide open most of the time you will be putting more heat out the chimney than in the home. Try setting your on at 140 and off around 90. Thats where I found all my woodfurnaces to operate best. Also clean your heat exchanger. Even running on coals, we get alot of heat from our furnace. After we load, we can close our damper completely within 1/2 hour and the furnace will blast heat for quite some time. I'm willing to bet you are overdrafting. We went from a furnace like your old one to our Caddy and I would never go back.


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## 1stmale (Feb 3, 2011)

I tried putting in a barometric damper but I do not have a manometer that will go as low as .06" it is a 2" manometer it seamed to make it worse probably because it was not set right. 

Do you know what kind of manometer I need and how to use one. 

The Elm I am using has been seasoning for 2 years. I burns well just fast. 

What kind of wood are you burning that gives you 8 hour burn times.


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## 1stmale (Feb 4, 2011)

I just got up at 7am and the house is down to 63 the wife even loaded the fire at 4am and loaded the unit. She said the house was at 63 when she loaded it. It was 68 when I went to bed at 11. It got down to 14 last night.

I reinstalled the barometric damper last night and set it so it would just open when there was a roaring fire and the intake damper was open. When the intake damper closes it open further. 

I will say that our house has large Windows on the front of the house that need to be replaced. They are original.to the house built In 1919. The front and side door ayre the originals also. I have plans to replace them and add storm doors. However I still go back to the fact that the old furnace had no problems keeping up all night long. And with this furnace I can't even get constant heat for more than 2 hours. 

I have a magnetic thermometer on the flue coming out of the furnace and my temps are at the highest 350. I also have more smoke than the old furnace and am burning more wood. I also for the first time ever had the flue plug with creosote and the furnace filled the house with smoke. 

Also the old furnace would burn the wood completely down to a fine white ash. With the caddy I pull out mostly small black unburnt charcoal. 

There has to be something wrong I hope you guys can help me find it.

Sorry for the ramblings. This then is really frustrating me and it was a very large investment.


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## CrappieKeith (Feb 4, 2011)

It sounds like a drafting issue of some sort.


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## laynes69 (Feb 4, 2011)

How big is your chimney as far as liner size? If your running 350 on the flue externally then your too high. I can have a raging fire and hold my hand on our flue. Your draft speeds sound too high. If your getting smoke then your pulling the gasses through the furnace at a high rate where they don't have a chance to combust. As far as wood types even maple will get us through the night. You need a manometer to set your draft properly. Our house is over 150 years old. It has high air leakage and 42 windows. Still we stay plenty warm. Those furnaces were tested with a 15' chimney which is standard for EPA. Your chimney is more than twice that height. If it's not the wood it's a draft issue.


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## 1stmale (Feb 4, 2011)

Can anyone point to a thread that explains how to measure draft? Also my liner is 6" single wall stainless up to where the old brick chimney stops in the attic. Then it is double wall fiberglass insulated from there through the roof. 

Thanks for all the help I am confident I can get this figured out.


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## 1stmale (Feb 4, 2011)

What about the old school cast iron chimney dampers?

I am getting secondary burns but they only last about 1 minute then go out. I still do nor have a manometer but I have the damper set so that it is open at a roaring fire. When the damper closes it opens further.


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## laynes69 (Feb 4, 2011)

They can help, but they have their downfalls. If not used correctly they can be dangerous. I used one on our furnace for a couple of months and I had it completely closed and still had too much draft. Google the florida bunglow syndrome it explains some of the problems you are having. A 40.00 manometer a small hole in the flue pipe will give you your draft readings. If you have a 6" flue you need a 6" baro installed.

Go on YouTube type in 1950 hotblast and check out those videos. Do your fires look like that? I put those on to show how the furnace burns. Those are burning with the damper closed.


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## 1stmale (Feb 4, 2011)

I installed the key damper until I can get a manometer. I have a lower fire but low heat out the registers. Only 99 degrees. This would not be enough to raise the temperature of the house when is is in the single digits outside. My old furnace would easily put out 120 degrees. I have the fan running on medium low. I suppose it could be the wood. It has been felled and bucked for 2.5 years but it has never been spit and stacked. I split it and brought it I the house just last week.


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## laynes69 (Feb 5, 2011)

The highest I have seen from the registers is about 115*. Unless your 1400 you had was modified with a bigger blower, the Caddy puts out a greater volume of air. It sounds like the house has high heat loss. If thats the case no matter what you do, it may not keep up. The first year we had our furnace, I was new to a EPA unit. My wood wasn't seasoned properly and I had the wrong chimney. When it dropped down to the lower 20's, I couldn't keep the house at 68* because it was too drafty. I went into the attic and airsealed all open cavities and penetrations, found leaks around windows and caulked, and went into the basement to also seal leaks. I still only have 3" of insulation in the attic, but in the 20's I can take the house to 75* now. The dryer the wood, the longer and hotter it will burn. With less than seasoned wood, you have to boil out the moisture, which will not allow the firebox to get up to temperatures. When the fire isn't burning hot enough, the damper will remain open. That in return will push heat up the flue pipe. Like I have said before, when our furnace is finally shut down after a good load I can place my hand on the fluepipe. Your wood should be cut, split and covered for at least a year. It didn't take me long to realize the importance of good dry wood. Also bump up your blower speeds .


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## 1stmale (Feb 5, 2011)

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with high heat loss. My attic is not insulated at the peak. if you had similar problems and resolved them with sealing up the house I bet I would resolve my issue the same way.

I am going to buy some seasoned firewood to see if that helps and get back to work on sealing up my house. Last year I tore all the old siding off and wraped the house in Tyvek that made a big diferance. However I still have those huge windows that are single pane and when it gets cold there will be frost on the inside. When I get my tax return I am buying new windows.


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## 1stmale (Feb 5, 2011)

I also still have a lot of smoke and creosote. I will do some reading on how to properly season wood and see where I am going wrong.


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## laynes69 (Feb 5, 2011)

It will be hard to find truly seasoned wood now. If you buy wood, then buy it now for next year. If you know someone around you who burns wood and they have seasoned maybe trade them a little. Is your glass staying clean or is it black? I wonder if your house is balloon framed. Our is, and I sealed over 32 cavities in our attic. It was equivalent to a 6'+ hole in our home letting heat out. Finding and sealing all those leaks and insulating not only saves wood, but any fuel you will burn in the future while increasing comfort. If you have large windows, consider buying thermal drapes. They make a difference. If you want, you can PM me your phone number and I can talk with you. With what your saying, your not even seeing half of the heat you should be. Theres a learning curve going to a unit like that, but once you get it figured out you will be happy.


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## 1stmale (Feb 5, 2011)

My neighbor had some bucked ash in his shed it had been there for 2+ years. I split it and took it inside without letting it get in the snow. It seems to be burning better and longer. I am noticing less smoke but still not none. Also it seems to have more smoke with the key damper closed. I am still only getting about 100 degrees out of the registers. I have been playing around with the key damper and it seems to be helping with making the wood last longer. However when it is closed the heat output is lower. 

I plan on borrowing the manometer from the HVAC guy at work on Monday. 

I do have a balloon framed house and I have blown in insulation that I blew in 4 spots up the wall. I have torn some walls down post insulation and it is still packed really tight. My problem in my attic it the peak is not insulated and the vents are exposed allowing heat to leave rapidly. 

This furnace only blows air on the first floor so I am loosing some heat from wood to the attic but more heat from my 2nd floor HVAC system.


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## laynes69 (Feb 5, 2011)

What you think is smoke, may just be some moisture. I have some moisture almost all of the time because our flue temps are low. If its white and dissipates, then its moisture. If its blue, black or gray and hangs around, its smoke.

Balloon framed homes are difficult to seal and insulate properly without tearing everything out. Dense packing cellulose like you have done will help eliminate air loss. Theres too many channels inside the home that link together that can take the heat out of a home. We had a blower door test done on our home, and he says its about 3 times draftier than a tightly sealed home. Thats after alot of renovating over the years. Sounds like there are some issues that need addressed as far as heat loss is concerned.


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## 1stmale (Feb 8, 2011)

I borrowed a manometer. It was a 0-1" dial type do it should have been pretty accurate. I set the barometric damper to .04 - .06 and the damper is wide open all the time. When I push the damper closed the pressure goes above .1

Lanes69 is yours that way? My concern is that is is pulling heat out of my house and sending it up the chimney. 

Thoughts......

Also is the blower supposed to cycle even when the fire is hot? I have it sat at 150 - 110 and the temp at the register is 98.


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## laynes69 (Feb 8, 2011)

Yeah, our draft was high. I used a Baro for a season and a half. They are the best bet to even out draft. The down side is they cool the flue and draw conditioned air from the house. It makes a huge difference when the draft is reduced to it's recommended levels. You need enough draft to pull through the air channels of the furnace, but not to much where it sends heat up the chimney. We have our temps set at 140 on and 90 off. Once we have a fire, the blower doesn't shut off until the tail end of the burn. I wake after 8 hours with the blower running on the furnace. If it's set too high it will take much longer to come on. If set to low it won't shut off. Finding those right settings will yield the most heat. Now the colder the air entering the furnace, the faster it will cool. Today it stayed in the teens with windchills close to 0, it was 75 in here.


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## 1stmale (Feb 9, 2011)

From what you have said it is pretty obvious that I have high heat loss. It is 5 now and I cannot get the house to 65 and the damper never closes. 99 out of the registers still seems low. I thought this furnace was supposed to be 140k btu?


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## CrappieKeith (Feb 9, 2011)

1stmale said:


> From what you have said it is pretty obvious that I have high heat loss. It is 5 now and I cannot get the house to 65 and the damper never closes. 99 out of the registers still seems low. I thought this furnace was supposed to be 140k btu?


 
If I was in your shoes I'd be calling the manufacture for tech help.


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## laynes69 (Feb 9, 2011)

The input btus is 140k, the output around 106k which is max firing. I think your trying to push something that won't be able to keep up unless you fix the other issues in the home. If you can't heat 1000sq ft then something isn't right. We took our 2400 sq.ft victorian with 10' ceilings from 69 to 71 where the thermostat was set in 20 minutes this morning. It was 0* out and the windchills were below zero. Plus our old basement was warm. I would recommend an energy audit on your home to pinpoint where the trouble spots are. We had a blower door test done for free from our local electric co-op. It may be the best money spent.


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## fordsrus (Dec 22, 2011)

1stmale

I was thinking about the Max Caddy, how is your stove working out now? Did you get the bugs worked out?



laynes69

What barometer or draft control are you using, the automatic one or the manual one in the stove exhaust pipe?

Thanks Ryan


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## laynes69 (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm using a barometric damper. I believe it's a fields control.


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## CrappieKeith (Dec 23, 2011)

Layne...you are doing a bang up job in the absence of Fryeburg. 

...but really the OP should be going direct to the manufacture to get helps.That's why they have a tech. dept....unless he already has and as a last ditch effort he's come online to try to get squared away by Caddy owners.

Goodluck to the OP.....


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