# Large job (for me) question



## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

I have a guy that want me cut and limb about 80 white pines.

All I have to do is cut limb and get them out far enough for the cherry picker.

I figure it will take about 320 man hours to cut, limb and take care of the brush. Plus I'll need to rent some equipment to skid them out.

$900 equipment
$2900 payroll
$300 misc cost

$4100 total cost

Does that sound about right?
What would a job like this usually go for?

I havn't been to the site yet to know of any special circumstances.

Thanks for any help.


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## Newfie (Jan 20, 2003)

I'm not a pro or an expert but everything looks low to me except for the man hour estimate which looks at least double what I might expect it to take.

You need to have your payroll figure coming out at way more than $9.00 an hour.

Is he keeping the logs? What are your plans for the slash? What kinds of equipment do you need to rent to move stuff? Does he want tree length or sawlogs? Is it a clear cut or selective cut? Any road needed? Has the trucker seen the landing to see if it meets his needs?Lots of factors to reflect upon.

I wouldn't give a bid on a job before seeing the trees and the property. You don't want to find out that they are on a 45 degree slope with a stream to cross at the bottom. 

I could be way wrong from my perspective and limited experience, but those are things I would want to consider.


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## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

Yes he is keeping the logs for the lumber so I'd need to cut them into saw logs. I'm meeting the guy on wed to check out the sight.

As far as clear or selective that's pretty much up to me, he just wnats enough lumber to build his house. So the non-esential trees can be avoided.

As far as what equipment I would need, I'm not sure yet until I see the sight. The $900 figure is what it cost me to rent a backhoe for 2 weeks. So I'm sure that is on the low side of things depending on what I'll end up needing.

My payroll does run at $9.00 for my labor. That is a definate figure, however I usually give my guys bonuses depending on profit.

I would be doing most if not all the saw work my self. So my help is primarily clean up etc.

I'm assuming the guy wants the brush burnt but I havn't discused that with him yet. 

thanks


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## Treeman14 (Jan 20, 2003)

I'm not a logger, but I know you need to visit the site before you can give an estimate. How on earth did you come up with 320 M/hrs if you haven't seen the job?


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## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

the 320 hr figure is basically from doing the same type job with my father last month. 4 of us could cut, limb, and burn 8 bull pines a day taking our time. avg 4 man hours a tree for 80 trees 320 man hours in total. I would think that I could cut that number down quite a bit because we were doing it in 18" of snow and couldn't pull any of the logs out and had to precision drop them all side by side to keep the mess down, etc.


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## StIhL MaGnUm (Jan 20, 2003)

Well I'am a logger and personally speaking I fell mostly White Pine and to do 80 seriously fell,limb,buck to length this should only take you if properly equiped 15-30 hrs max ad cleanup give or take 5-12hrs if done by hand.You did'nt say if you will be chipping or hauling the brush??I run a chainsaw and feller buncher which you probally won't have but I do 60-100 Pines in a 12hr day.It all depends on what you will have to use for equipment???

later Rob..


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## treeclimber165 (Jan 20, 2003)

I'd have to say some basic business management knowledge is lacking here also. How can an employee only cost you $9 per hour? Do you understand the difference between what you hand him in cash and what he costs you? And what is the purpose of giving away labor for payroll costs? Are you in business to earn a living or simply provide jobs for free? Does he have his own personal health insurance or will you be footing the bill when he hurts himself?


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## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

Dont worry about my payroll numbers. I have a degree in Business administration and I am 3 classes away from a second degree in accounting with a 3.8 GPA. $9 per hour pays my guys, their payroll taxes, workers comp etc. I am wanting to figure up the cost of the job, not how much I will charge.


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## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

StIhL MaGnUm do you really think I could get it done that fast? I'm sure you can, doing this on a regular basis. 

I have a 20" husky an 18" and 12" stihl wedges ropes winch etc. nothing fancy.

If I get the job I was planning on a new saw and anything else I might need to get the job done. (new "toys" are always good to have)

what tools do you think I should have on hand?

thanks


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## StIhL MaGnUm (Jan 20, 2003)

For one I would say you need a skidder to drag the logs once cut to a place where you can stack them??How do you plan to do this.What exactly do you have for equipment to do this job besides a saw and some wedges???

Later Rob..


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## treeman82 (Jan 20, 2003)

How big are these pine trees both in diameter and height? Why would he want to use green pine to build his house? From what I understand, working with green lumber is not fun. Also it is customary to run that stuff through a kiln after milling it. Unless these pines are HUGE or his house is going to be small... I would not think they are going to do him much good. Do you have any climbing gear yet? I would most likely suggest that you run up into them and just slash the brush out on your way up. Have maybe 3 guys on the ground running a big chipper. Once you have them all skinned you should be able to just drop them wherever you need to, possibly with the use of a pull line. By just crashing them in the middle of the woods (not sure how dense of a forrest we are talking about) you would be talking about making a huge mess and probably making several dangerous situations, as well as injuring desireable trees. Just my thoughts though.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jan 20, 2003)

You might consider buying a snorkel along with the new chain saw. In case you get in over your head you will still be able to breath. 

With your claimed business/accounting education you must realize that factoring in wages is a cost of the job. You'll need that in order to decide how much you'll charge. What's the difference between the two?

Are those eighty trees bean poles and fence posts or old growth Doug fir? Too many variables in the formula.

Tom


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## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

that's pretty much it.

I was panning on renting something to pull the logs out. I'm not sure if I can get a skidder witch would be the best way I know. I seriousely doubt the rental guys have one, but they do have dozers and other large equipment that I would think would work.


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## treeman82 (Jan 20, 2003)

lsylvan... I just saw what you responded with as I was making my post. With your current tools being stated.. I honestly think you should pass on this job. Somebody is going to get screwed here. Obviously it will either be you or the customer.. however I think that the odds are it will be you. Start small with tree work.... dropping 80 pines while trying to salvage the logs for lumber could be putting you in a little too deep right now for what you can handle. JMHO


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## lsylvain (Jan 20, 2003)

They don't use green lumber to build the house. They exchange the logs for a % of the board feet in lumber. Instead of the company paying him in cash for the logs they pay him in lumber.

I know I can do the work, i've done it before just not for someone other than my family. I've loged 15 acres with my unlce with a team of horses to skid the logs out.

That is basicaly my plan to have 3 guys cleaning up behind me as I limb them up. The forest is pretty dense, but he doesn't care about keeping any particular trees.

There is already a cleared spot for the logs right by the road so that shouldn't be a problem.


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## StIhL MaGnUm (Jan 20, 2003)

Well if you can get your hands on the proper equipment I would give it a shot but if not I would have to say pass on this job because if all you have is a saw and wedges etc..you won't be able to complete the job,as for the statement "but he does'nt care about keeping any particular trees" that my friend is not the way jobs like this should work even if he does'nt care you should especially if you don't want a reputation of being a hack logger you must care about what your doing when your out in the woods,you want the work to look good when complete that way if others see it you will get more of it instead of them saying look at that mess etc..Just My Opinion Let me know what you can get for equipment..

Hope this helps

Later Rob..


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## Ryan Willock (Jan 20, 2003)

4 trees a day?? if thats all you can handle i would defanatly walk away from this job!! i personally felled, limbed, bucked, skidded and decked 35 good sized trees today and pushed up the slash. and yes i was using a chain saw. what model husky do you have, pro or consumer, mid size or large production saw??? it sounds like you don't have ANY of the proper equipment. you also have to factor in diesel for the tractor (backhoe, what ever!) you would be suprised at how fast you can go through fuel when you are working the equipment hard!!! also if you are forced to use Highway diesel as oposed to Off Highway diesel then your fuel will cost about 1/3 more just some thoughts:angel:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 21, 2003)

So you are paying your guys minimum wage if the payroll cost is $9/hr.

A skidstear witha a grapple bucket, and chain for skidding.

Big saws for felling, spare chain.

How much are you billing out per day for your truck?

are you billing out 9/hr for your labor? You gotta pay yourself.

4100/80=51.25/tree 

75*80=6000


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## JimL (Jan 21, 2003)

15 acres to log isnt much. I am working on logging 160 acres pretty heavy now. I can cut, and top 50 trees a day, had 49 on the counter today. I got another guy skidding with me. Plus is gotta spend some time in the yard stacking and sorting ect... 


320 hours is alot for 80 trees, i asume on flat ground?


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## lsylvain (Jan 21, 2003)

I pay my help $6 and hour plus bonuses. Baised on profit for the year.

what I meant by not having any trees that he cares about was just that I don't have to worry about him wanting any particular trees left on the site. 

My biggest saw i have is a husky 255

I can get a JH 450 dozer

If a big bobcat would work my brother has one I just didn't think it would be much help as far as skiding the logs out, because of traction.

I also can use a backhoe but I think the skidsteer would be better.

Another company around here rents out large equipment but I couldn't get up with them today.

I'm sure I can do it in less than 320 man hours, but I'm also sure I can't get it done in the times you guys can get it done in.

I don't bill by the hour with other jobs. My main business is landscaping/mowing. I learned a long time ago that people don't like to be shown that they just paid someone $80/hr to cut their grass, they like to think it takes us all day while they are at work.

Do any of you guys just bill by the hour on a job like this?

thanks


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## StIhL MaGnUm (Jan 21, 2003)

Well I don't usually bid by the hour since most of my work is buying standing timber and then going in felling,limb,buck to length,chip,etc..and load up and move on so I can't really help you on that one,usually if I sub for someone else I will charge roughly between $400-600 a day for a full 12 hrs for me,my saws,and grapple skidder if I need to bring the buncher and chipper than I get close to $1000 a day but this is for a company that does upwards of 200 trees a day.


Later Rob..


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## JimL (Jan 21, 2003)

Jd 450 is small. I have power outed a jd 1150 skidding before a number of times


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## Oregon_Rob (Jan 22, 2003)

Maybe think about contracting the skidding.


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## lsylvain (Jan 24, 2003)

Okay here is what I have come up with

The furthest distance to skid a log is about 200' 
Avg diameter is about 18"
Not very dense at all

I'm figuring if a take out as many of the smaller trees first I can pull them out with the bobcat. As they start to get bigger I'll buck them to legth and try pulling them out. Then what ever is left I'll either get a biger machine or get someone else to pull them out.


I'm figuring I'll charge him $45 per tree (3600)
Plus $250 a day for skidding.

I have about 30 hrs a week I can work there so If I get 20 trees done a week with 1 day of skidding

(45 x 20) + 250 = 1150 week less about $300 for my labor cost

Leaves avout $600 a week for me and OH

I should be able to get at least 30 trees a week but at 20 I'm pulling in a profit.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 24, 2003)

So what you are saying is that your worth $20/hr but the OH comes out of your pay.

Stick with the 20/hr for yourself since you are still learning. then crunch some numbers for an hourly OH figure to add in there.

Or are you 15/hr and OH is 5/hr?


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## MidwestTree (Jan 24, 2003)

I think that StihlMagnum is right on the hours. Where I am at we have limited # of pines but what I have worked with them I find it easier to work with than other trees. 10 to 15 a day would not be hard. Backhoe to drag them out or a clamshell bucket for smaller diameter, if the room allows. If you can burn on site then use the backhoe to pile brush. Two weeks ago I took out 15 large osage orange trees, 5 of which had to be pieced down because of heavy lean toward a tool shed. Me and one man cut, piled/burned bush and hauled away all logs/firewood in three days. These were eight to nine hour days. Cold and snowy so we worked a little on the layed back side (Nice to have an enjoyable job once in a while). I think that your me are worth more than min. I pay $10 an hour and wish I could pay more. I have good guys and want to keep them but I do expect hard work out of them. I think that the man hours might be high but I think that your wages to you and your men might be low. Fuel in a hoe being used hard for a day can run @ 25 gal or more depending upon the total hours. Plus you have tires to remember, if you drive over something and ruin a back tire you can be out 1000 to 1200 dollars. I hope this helps. Think it through carefully before you make a decision.


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## lsylvain (Jan 24, 2003)

I know $20/hr isn't much, but for every tree a week over 20 will add $1.50 per hour.

20 trees a week is only 4 a day.
25 tree is 27.50/hr 5 a day
30 is $35 /hr 6 a day

As far as paying my crew $6/hr most of the work that they do is mowing which means I have 2 guys driving for an average of 10 min per job just to get to the mowing jobs then actually working for about 15 min then driving again. so I have to charge my customers $15 per hour just for their time to make up for drive time. So if I paid them $10 per hour I would have to charge $25 and hour. I can't pay them differently for each job that they do that would just be too much to keep up with so at the end of the year they get a bonus. Usually around $1000 each.


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## treeclimber165 (Jan 24, 2003)

You charge your customers based on a man-hour rate of $15? When I sold my lawn business 12.5 years ago, going rate was $30-$35 per man hour and I was getting $40-$50 per man hour on many of my accounts. For mowing lawns and pulling weeds.

No wonder so many in the lawn care and tree industries complain about the lowballers undercutting their prices by half and they STILL can't charge enough to pay overhead and a meager wage. 

I almost didn't read the last day's worth of posts on this thread. Sorry I did.


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## MidwestTree (Jan 25, 2003)

Isylvain, Being that you have a degree in buisness then I would think that you would understand that you should make money, as the owner of the company, on every man hour that is worked. I live in an area were the man hour rate is low (rural america) but the mowing companies get 35 to 40 per hour for each man. They paper around 8 per hour, that means profit. I worked a number of years ago for a tileage contractor, three of us would put in 6000 feet a day (10 hours) which is about $6000. He paid us $9 per hour. In other words there is profit from each man. If he added another guy to this we could get about 7500 feet ($7500). You also have to be far to your guys. Did you hire them to fight brush in a highly dangerous occupation or did you hire them to mow lawns. I think for this work they deserve more. For the risk. Why do you think that they get more money for high work, thge work is the same on the ground as 200 feet up but the risk is greater.


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## lsylvain (Jan 26, 2003)

You charge your customers based on a man-hour rate of $15? When I sold my lawn business 12.5 years ago, going rate was $30-$35 per man hour and I was getting $40-$50 per man hour on many of my accounts. For mowing lawns and pulling weeds.


I am not a low baller. I get between $45 and $80 per man hour. Which is over the national average. It cost me $15 per man hour in labor.

There is a thing called supply and demand. As the price goes up the demand for the product goes down. Being that the per capita income of bluefield WV is under $15,000 per year($7.50/hr). There are roughly 28 weeks in a mowing season. A 1 hr job billed at $45 cost the customer $1260 per year excluding tax. that is over one months pay. Can you afford to pay 1 months pay to have your grass cut? So if I paid my guys more I would have to charge more the more I charge the less customers I have which in turn means, the less work I have and the less people I can provide jobs for. Lets say I pay a guy $10 per hour, he is getting payed really good for the area, so he stays with me for 10 years and is replaced by a robotic mower (Allready available for about $2000) He has no job skills to get another job, so to feed his family he has to go to burger king for min wage for the rest of his life. When I pay him $6 and hour he works for me for a few years to make ends meet while he goes to school, graduates and gets a job making 50k a year and increases the standard of living for the whole area.


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## treeclimber165 (Jan 27, 2003)

For a man with a BS Business degree, you sure have difficulty expressing profit vs. gross. You have interchanged the terms more than once on this thread. Now you are trying to say that you are HELPING the local economy by paying your grunts $6 per hour instead of $10? Must be a nice little dream world where you live.
I've had enough of this garbage.


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## lsylvain (Jan 27, 2003)

This site is worthless. I saw the site and assumed that the people here were interested in helping others in their business. I guess, I was wrong, peple are here, just to compete in the size of their "tools". 

treeclimber165, if you have problems understanding that, there are different markets around the world some of them stonger, and some weeker than others, that's your problem. And second of all if you are only paying your guys $10 /hr in Florida, I am paying my guys better than you based on purchasing power. Think about it, Rent in blufield for a 4 bdrm house is around $400 per month. If you can find a house in Orlando for $1200 per month I'd be surprised.


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## MidwestTree (Jan 27, 2003)

You have said that you charge $15 per hour then later you said that the average income is less than $15000 for the area that you work but that you are now charging $45 to $80 per hour (above the national average). I find it interesting that your numbers change and that you have the ability to get higher than average prices out of below poverty incomes. And I will not call you a low baller because I think that is an unfair term, if a company can provide a service for less than the competition and can make money at it then so be it. If it is to low then they will go out of buisness. I just feel that is an unfair term.


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## Ryan Willock (Jan 27, 2003)

the guy obviously flunked math!! or he's just trying to cause trouble


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## Jock (Jan 28, 2003)

Maybe have a word with your father mate


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## treeman82 (Jan 31, 2003)

ROFLMAO


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## lsylvain (Sep 29, 2006)

3 years later I am still pissed at you guys. Ended up biding this at $53.00 a tree. and lost the bid to someone who did it for $40 a tree. I never said I charged $15.00 per hour in total I said I have to charge $15.00/hour to cover the cost of paying my guys $6.00 per hour. Get it. I actually earned well over $80.00 per hour, infact my net income averged out to be about $65/hour, but I lowered my numbers because I figured you would ????? about me paying my guys so little. You can charge whatever the heck you want to if you can back up your charge with quality workmanship and a little self promotion. Just because the average income is $15,000 doens't mean that everyone makes $15,000 a year. There are people like Doctors and Lawyers that make several hundred thousand a year and other people that make only a couple thousand a year that is why it is called an average. Even 3 years later $6.00 an hour is a descent starting salary in Southern WV.


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## treeseer (Oct 1, 2006)

lsylvain said:


> 3 years later I am still pissed at you guys.


THat kind of Resentment is letting someone you don't like live in your heart rent-free. 


> Even 3 years later $6.00 an hour is a descent starting salary in Southern WV.


 "descent' being the operative word. that's what i pay my 12-year old relatives. 

This thread kinda reads like Hell's Kitchen! Rodent Claw?


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## Husky137 (Oct 1, 2006)

$6.00 an hour isn't a salary, it's a wage. Anyone can make more picking their nose at burger king. 4 guys outta be able to knock out a white pine in a lot less than an hour.

My 7 year old makes more than $6 an hour when he stacks firewood.


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## lsylvain (Oct 1, 2006)

I'm not going to get into this pay rate discussion again. Yes $6.00 per hour in florida is rediculusly low. $6.00 per hour in WV is like $12.00 or more per hour in Florida. I know this because I currently live in FL and my mortgage is $1,400 a month, the property I am looking at in WV is the same square footage with 20 times the land and a 1500 square foot workshop. The morgage payment on that is going to be about $320 a month. Gas is $2.20 a gallon instead of $2.70 a gallon, etc, etc, etc. So those of you who are paying your guys $12.00 per hour in Florida the monthly gross on that full time is $1920 less the $1400 mortgate, leaves $520.00 for all their other bills. $6.00 per hour grosses $960.00 per month less $320.00 mortgage leaves $640.00 that is $120 more dollars for them to live on. I also stated the $6.00 per hour is a decent starting salary for someone today, not for someone who has been with you awhile.


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## gitrdun_climbr (Oct 1, 2006)

*$6.00 per hour?!?!*

Isylvian is that for real? That blows my mind for anywhere in America...I know and understand there are various costs of living from one part of the country to another but that just seems drasticly low for what we do. So after taxes a guy who reliably works 40 hours every week can expect to make about $600 per MONTH working for you? That's less than $40 for a hard, 8 hour day!

You have to realize that this is arboristsite and we are loggers and arborists. These professions can be pretty tough and hardcore in the trenches. Our field incorporates skills, knowledge, risks, toughness, etc. which far exceed that of a lawnmower/weedwhacker/blower operator and I just can't see how the pay could even closely compare. As a climber my job can be pretty technical and the risks can be up there but even these guys on the ground have an awesome skill set...for example if my groundie on the other end of my rigging line snubs off the tree top I just cut rather than let it run, I could be crushed or die. These guys are working under major amounts of weight and all too often get killed by it. They need to reliably understand a handful of knots and good communication skills (not learned overnite). The list goes on. It is disturbing to me that you proposed to pay so little and expect so much from your men and women unless you yourself truly don't understand the dynamics of our work and their duties...which is likely the case.

That said, you did come to the right place for information, believe us or not. I noticed in the thread you asked...but when answered you didn't like the truth. Now you're pissed at us because one job slipped by you which, in the world of arboriculture happens all the time as competition can be fierce. Many of these guys on here really, really know what they're talking about regarding this industry and possess information you will never learn at business college. If you're truly interested in getting into tree work I'm afraid you're gonna have to go work for someone else's tree service for a while...take some arboriculture classes so you can learn the basics about tree biology and such...get involved with ISA because without that good industry information you won't likely be infomed enough to keep you and your crew safe.

Not trying to scorch you just calling it the way I see it. Keep coming back.


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 1, 2006)

Six dollars per hour sucks anywhere!!!

My 13 yr old deserves more than that babysitting!


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## Husky137 (Oct 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Six dollars per hour sucks anywhere!!!
> 
> My 13 yr old deserves more than that babysitting!




Didn't think of that. Our babysitter wants $8 an hour and thats tax free.


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 1, 2006)

lsylvain said:


> $320.00 mortgage




What is that house/shelter made from for $320 a month..............soup cans??? 

<marquee direction=right><tt>


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## Husky137 (Oct 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> What is that house/shelter made from for $320 a month..............soup cans???
> 
> <marquee direction=right><tt>



A van down by the river......


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## daddieslilgirl (Oct 2, 2006)

*large job?*

ok i havent been here in a very long time and i didnt realize this post started in 2003 but i was reading it and got irate. dont mean to offend anyone but 6.00 an hour? is that for real? im a female i work logging dont cut and dont drive skidder that much anymore and i average 13.00 an hr! yes i bust my butt! we dont usually work more than 6 hours a day, unless me and my brother decide to go later, my dads older so we try to take care of the longer hours when hes not there or driving. 6.00 an hour just.. i dont know flabberghasts me!!!! again no offense to anyone!


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## lsylvain (Oct 2, 2006)

Daddieslilgirl your profile says that you are in NY the median house hold income in NY is about $44,000 a year. The median income my Mercer County WV is about $28,000. The average home value in the county is $63,900 and in NY $148,000. You realize though that you could easily earn $15.00/hour sitting in a dentist office answering the phone?

$6.00 per hour is 12k a year, 43% of the median income, 19% of the average home price.

$13.00 comes to 26k a year, 59% of the median income, 18% of the average home price.

Pretty darn close as I said, and I have also stated that $6.00 is a starting Salary today, not what I would say pay my Daughter who I could trust.

Don'y believe my home price figures, or average incomes. They came from the US census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/ don't believe that do a search for yourself on say realtor.com for homes in WV vs your area.

$320 per month is about a $50,000 mortgage with down payment that is the cost of the average house in the county.
I think the average home price in my area in FL was about $350,000 last month. 

Your $50,000 in WV puts you in an average neighborhood. The $200,000 I have in my house in FL puts me 4 blocks away from Driveby shootings, 2 blocks away from the kid who wiped out his whole family, and smack dab in the middle of about 200 sexual preditors within a half mile of my house. I don't suppose you watched the news the last few days about the guy that shot yp the school? Is probably hideing in my neighborhood.


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## gitrdun_climbr (Oct 2, 2006)

lsylvain said:


> I have a degree in Business administration and I am 3 classes away from a second degree in accounting with a 3.8 GPA.



Not trying to ridicule anyone here or split hairs, just confused cause you're still calling the $6.00/hr a "salary". Something doesn't fit here. Do you pay a salary or wage?


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## lsylvain (Oct 2, 2006)

Salary/Wage same difference. No I didn't pay them the same amount each month they were hourly employees.


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## lsylvain (Oct 2, 2006)

Dammit, I said I wasn't going to talk about this anymore. lol So if you don't believe me, sorry. If you are that worried about it and are possitive you are right pack your bags and move to WV and try to get a job making $15.00 per hour then message me back. We will see what happens.


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## Husky137 (Oct 2, 2006)

lsylvain said:


> Salary/Wage same difference. No I didn't pay them the same amount each month they were hourly employees.



But it isn't chucklehead. A salary means you pay the guy $240 a week whether he works 40 hours, 80 hours or 10 hours. A wage is paid to hourly employees. Where did you get that business degree from? University of northwestern south west virginia online crackerjack course?


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 2, 2006)

lsylvain said:


> Dammit, I said I wasn't going to talk about this anymore. lol So if you don't believe me, sorry. If you are that worried about it and are possitive you are right pack your bags and move to WV and try to get a job making $15.00 per hour then message me back. We will see what happens.




You bring it on yourself by replying...............take a long walk!!!:jawdrop:


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## daddieslilgirl (Oct 2, 2006)

*large lot*

first i said i didnt me to offend and i didnt! ive been to wv ny isnt much better. i dont have a morgage, i pay rent, i couldnt afford my own home no matter how much money i try to save! something always comes up and there goes my meager savings! i would starve getting paid 6.00 an hour! and my rent is cheap too. thats all i was saying. im barely making it as it is now, and trust me im a cheapskate. it comes in one hand and goes out the other in the same day! like i said didnt mean to offend but i just cant see a family living on that!


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## lsylvain (Oct 3, 2006)

No offense taken. daddieslilgirl. I'm just sick of having to explain myself to those who just can't seem to understand that the cost of living changes throught the country. You can't live in FL for what you can live on in WV or Ihio, etc. The thread was not called "how much should I pay my employees?" it was a simple question about a job that I had questions about, and I can only assume that 80% of the people that responded to this thread no nothing about pricing a job or estimating time or they would have responded with "answers" to help me. Instead since they themselves did not know the answer preceeded to blast me about my payrol cost which quite frankly is none of their business anyway. 

and not to split hairs. lol

Salary is a set amount of money paid for a set amount of time. You can have a Salary of $30,000 a year, or you can have a Salary of $2000 a month, you can have a salary of $500 a week, or you can have a salary of $6.00 per hour.

A wage is an amount of money paid for set amount of time or work. You can be paid $6.00 per hour, $400.00 per week, or a wage can also be for a per item basis. For example a Truck Drive usually get paid by the mile, so his Wage is $0.45 per mile.

get out the dictionary and read for yourself that Wage is a synonym for Salary. Wage and Salary are like a Rectangle and a Square. A square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't always a square and a Salary is always a Wage, but a Wage isn't nessisarly always a Salary.

So Wage and Salary can be used interchangably unless you are talking about truck drivers or other peicemeal employees. Even then it is understood when I say my salary is $6.00 per widget, that I mean that I get paid $6.00 per every widget I produce so they can infact be used interchangibly. Just as I understand what you mean when you don't properly capitalize the first word in a sentance, or tell me for example that you bush hoged a feild. A bush hog is a name brand of equiptment so you could have meant that you drove your Bush Hog ATV around in the feild all day, but I understand that you meant that you mowed the field with a Rotary Cutter.

So again, you are just wanting to argue other than to answer the origional question. And I mean "you" as in everyone in general not as a direct attack towards you.

I also recall that there were several people who were objecting to my wages who wanted to argue so much actually "followed" me around to my other post and would try to instigate the same conversation.


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## hammer0419 (Oct 21, 2006)

I can't believe I sat here and read everyone's ?????ing and moaning on this. Who the hell care's who pay's what. If someone is willing to work for $6/hr good for them. But like he stated it is all on location/cost of living. I am up here in NY paying out the A** for EVERYTHING so I wouldn't know what inexpensive is.


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## Booshcat (Oct 22, 2006)

Hell around here, for 6$ an hour, my laborers would have to be ehem ....."undocumented workers"
Let's see, part-time at a supermarket goes about $8.50 and I believe McDonald's is around $10 and up.

It cost ME 15 bucks today to throw out an easychair at the dump!


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