# Vermont woodstoves



## stihl sawing (Aug 8, 2009)

Looking at one of these, I was going to buy a new stove a while back and something came up and couldn't do it. Now i have got to get a new one mine is shot. Are these any good, I liked the way it looked and two ways to put wood in. 1779.00 dollars is what it sells for. Blower is an extra 179.00 dollars. hate to spend that kind of money right now but gonna have to. Mine will not go another year. The firebox is burned out, it is about 30 years old though.






DutchWest Catalytic Wood Stoves

DUTCHWEST Cast Iron - Extra Large 0002462


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Get The Facts
Brochure - Cast Iron Catalytic Wood Stoves 
Brochure - French 
Manual (English) 
Manual (English) - Central Eurpean 
Warranty - Ltd 3yr DW (Catalytic) 
Fast and Efficient. Beautiful and Convenient.

The Dutchwest Catalytic Wood Stove line features solid cast iron construction for quality you can see – and feel. With three different sizes, you can easily find the right stove for any room size. They’re fast starting, long burning, and remarkably efficient. Just what you would expect from Dutchwest.

Product Features 

Traditional Federal styling 
Convection system for spreading the heat 
Three models - small, large, and extra large to suit any heating need 
Industry's lowest smoke emissions 
Convenient ash pan and side loading 
Glass panel with overfire airwash for clear fire viewing 
High efficiency - more heat from less wood 
Solid, durable cast iron construction 
Decorative polished nickel accents 
Raised griddle for stovetop cooking 
Optional Accessories: 
Dual speed convection fan 
Rear and bottom heat shield 
Fan thermostat 
Fan Rheostat 

Product Specifications 
Ash Pan YES 
Log Length (Max.) 25 in. 
EPA Emissions Rating 1.3 (grams/hr) 
BTU/hr Range EPA Test Method 10,500 to 27,700 BTU/hr 
Cast Iron Construction YES 
Heat Circulating Fan Optional 2 speed 
Flue Collar Size Oval 8 in. 
Flue Collar Reversible YES 
BTU/h (Max.) 55000 BTU 
Efficiency 74.3 % 
Burn Time (Max.) 12 hours 
Combustion Technology Catalytic 
Firebox Lining Cast iron 
Firebox Volume 2.9 cubic feet 
Heating Area (Max) 2400 sq. ft. 
Rear clearances (with optional shields) 18 in. to combustibles 
Weight 550 lbs. 
Unit Depth 18 in. 
Unit Height 33 in. 
Unit Width 28 in. 
Mobile Home Kit NO


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## stihl sawing (Aug 8, 2009)

Also liked this one, It's gonna be one of the two. Which one is better.





Heritage
Wood


Heats up to: 1,900 sq. ft. 
Burn Time: Up to 8 hours 
Heat Life: Up to 12 hours 
Size: 55,000 BTUs 
EPA Rating: 2.77 grams per hour 
Efficiency: 81% 
Maximum Log Length: 21" 
View this stove in a room

Heritage
Description Features Photos Specs Finishes Accessories Documents DescriptionFeaturing optional top or rear flue exits, greater heat output with a larger fire box, beautiful detailing, and soapstone facing on the side loading door, the Heritage woodstove is just what you need. When fully loaded, the new Heritage will burn for up to 8 hours, providing up to 12 hours of sustained heat. The side door makes it even simpler to load this efficient stove. In addition, as with all HearthStone woodstoves, the Heritage warms your home with minimal fire tending required. 
Features2.3 cubic foot firebox; extra wide door
Holds up to 46 lbs. of wood

Side-loading door
Allows logs up to 21" in length to be accomodated side-to-side for easy loading, or use the optional lock kit to reduce side clearance from 16" to 3.5"

Single air-intake lever/stove control
Stove operation is easy; performance more consistent.

Reversible flue collar
For top or rear exit

Unmatched fire viewing
Air entering the firebox through the stove’s secondary air tubes ignites the gases rising off the burning wood. The resulting light and flames provide dazzling fire viewing, even when the fire is burning at a low rate.

Non-catalytic combustion system
Clean burning, more complete combustion provides more heat from less wood, greater efficiency; reduced smoke and creosote build-up.

Outside air adapter (optional)
Improved efficiency in today’s newer "airtight" homes; reduces cold air drafts along the floor.

Rear heat shield (optional)
Allows more placement options; stove can be installed closer to a wall because clearance requirements are reduced. Creates a convection passageway between shield and back of the stove to allow optional fan to circulate air through the house.

Fan with built-in thermostat and rheostat (optional)
Helps spread heat evenly throughout home; fan operates only when stove is at significant heat level. The rheostat controls fan speed. Use of rear heat shield is required.


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## stihl sawing (Aug 8, 2009)

The second one is made by hearthstone, Just seen there was no name.


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## KodiakKen (Aug 9, 2009)

*I can't attest to the heritage*

BUT..I currently have the vermont castings in my house. 1300 sq.ft. hole in the wall. I burn maybe 2 cords a year and that is keeping my house non stop 0ver 70. I can load mine for a 12 hour burn and then let it go for a few more before I load it again..works great for me. I have read a lot of posts about the catalyst going out. I have had mine self installed for 4 years and haven't had a problem. Might replace the catalyst this year..10 minute job..just to see the difference. don't spring for the fan unless you have a min. of ten feet in front of the stove. I have a homebuilt job blowing across and a box fan blowing diagonal and still have tremendous heat out of the front. That window lets out a ton. honestly underneath doesn't get as hot as I thought it would. I would put it on a raw pine floor without hesitation. Front and top is the worst part. I have an infrared thermometer and at good burn I can't get half way across the top before it beats 700 degrees..not uncommon heat rises..but that catalyst is something else if you have never had one..no smoke out of the chimney whatsoever when you got it running right. only smoke I have is start up. I love mine. Good Luck


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## CjPetey (Aug 9, 2009)

I know alot of people over at http://www.********** like the hearthstone Heritage and they say the duchwest stoves are ok but there not built like they did back in the day.


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## Mossy (Aug 9, 2009)

I have a Woodstock soapstone and love it. Had it for 5 years now and it can drive ya out in the dead of winter up here. I'm a few miles (about 10) from Lake Superior so many of you probably know what our winters are like. Check them out if you like. woodstove.com Forgot to add the Fireview is the model I have


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## stihl sawing (Aug 9, 2009)

Thanks for the replies, Since this post i've read good and bad things about the dutchwest. So now i'm really confused. May have to look harder at the hearthstone. Things i liked about the dutchwest were a large ash pan and 25 inch wood. One thing i didn't like about it that the legs are like womens spike heels. Mighty spindley and cheap looking legs for a stove as heavy as it is. I don't have a clue about all the catalyst stuff it has on it. It also recommends 8 inch pipe and i have 6 inch. Things i didn't like about the hearthstone is the ash pan is the size of a dust pan. I would have to empty it twice a day. Also it only holds 21 inch wood which i could live with but would have to cut some of mine down.


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## whitemountain (Aug 9, 2009)

I think you'll be surprised at how little ash is left from a good clean burn. Last winter we took out the ashes about once a month. That's burning 24/7 and as the only source of heat in the home. We have a Lopi Endeavor. It's a great stove I would recommend without hesitation. It's not as pretty as some, but it is extremely practical. The Liberty in that line of stoves will take a bigger log which would be nice, but we get 10+ hour burn times. These stoves have a 6 inch flu. We also burn about 2.5 cords per season. 

Also, if your chimney system is as old as the stove you're replacing you probably need to look at doing something with it as well.

Good luck, and enjoy your new stove!!


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## stihl sawing (Aug 9, 2009)

whitemountain said:


> I think you'll be surprised at how little ash is left from a good clean burn. Last winter we took out the ashes about once a month. That's burning 24/7 and as the only source of heat in the home. We have a Lopi Endeavor. It's a great stove I would recommend without hesitation. It's not as pretty as some, but it is extremely practical. The Liberty in that line of stoves will take a bigger log which would be nice, but we get 10+ hour burn times. These stoves have a 6 inch flu. We also burn about 2.5 cords per season.
> 
> Also, if your chimney system is as old as the stove you're replacing you probably need to look at doing something with it as well.
> 
> Good luck, and enjoy your new stove!!


All the pipe in the chimney was replaced two years ago. Does the new stoves put out less ash. I know if it's the same as my old one most of the new ones i looked at would have to be dumped daily and even twice a day.


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## Mossy (Aug 9, 2009)

We also burn 24/7 as our primary heat source. I empty ashes about every three weeks. As was stated, a good burn produces a small amount of fly ash. My chimney is inside of 6' wide and 3' thick masonary with a stainless steel liner all the way to the roof. Maybe this helps but I clean the chimney every three months and get about three cups of soot.


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## whitemountain (Aug 9, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> All the pipe in the chimney was replaced two years ago. Does the new stoves put out less ash. I know if it's the same as my old one most of the new ones i looked at would have to be dumped daily and even twice a day.



I remember as a kid one of my chores was to take the ashes out. We did it morning and night. Those days are over my friend. The new woodstoves simply burn more of the carbon in the fuel. The firebox is more efficient whether injected air, or catalytic secondary combustion. The result is less ash. Less ash in the stove, less ash in the chimney. This is especially true with good seasoned wood. I think you'll be very happy with one of the newer "EPA rated" stoves.


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## stihl sawing (Aug 9, 2009)

whitemountain said:


> I remember as a kid one of my chores was to take the ashes out. We did it morning and night. Those days are over my friend. The new woodstoves simply burn more of the carbon in the fuel. The firebox is more efficient whether injected air, or catalytic secondary combustion. The result is less ash. Less ash in the stove, less ash in the chimney. This is especially true with good seasoned wood. I think you'll be very happy with one of the newer "EPA rated" stoves.


 Many thanks, Then i won't make a judgement on the size of the ash pan.


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## Highbeam (Aug 10, 2009)

I own the heritage and really like it. I don't even use the ash pan system and shovel out the ashes after several weeks of burning 24/7. I burn softwoods like cottonwood, doug fir, red cedar, and alder. 7 cords the first year and 4.5 this last year after insulation improvments. 

So after shoving 11.5 cords through it I can say that it performs as advertized. It will take a long log, uses the 6" flue (this is important), and I find it very attractive. The hearthstone company is great with excellent service despite me not having a dealer. I bought from a dealer that was closing up shop at a good discount so manufacturer support was important. 

You don't want that dutchwest or really any VC product. The company is in various stages of bankruptcy and has chosen not to honor warranties!!! That particular DW cat stove is known to be difficult to operate given the various air inlet controls which is unlike the other very good cat stoves such as blaze king and woodstock. 

You don't seem to like the plate steel stoves but why not consider the PE line of stoves. One has a cast iron shell and is very nice to look at. Check out pics and prices of the hearthstones and the PE stoves at 

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/fswood.htm

Here's my stove and the boxer. The stove cruises along at about 400 for a comfortable heating experience with no blowers making a racket.


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## Nonprophet (Aug 10, 2009)

Highbeam said:


> So after shoving 11.5 cords through it I can say that it performs as advertized. It will take a long log, uses the 6" flue (this is important), and I find it very attractive. The hearthstone company is great with excellent service despite me not having a dealer. I bought from a dealer that was closing up shop at a good discount so manufacturer support was important.
> 
> You don't want that dutchwest or really any VC product. The company is in various stages of bankruptcy and has chosen not to honor warranties!!! That particular DW cat stove is known to be difficult to operate given the various air inlet controls which is unlike the other very good cat stoves such as blaze king and woodstock.



I guess I'd have to give just about the opposite advice! :chainsawguy: 

I have two good friends who had their Hearthstone stoves crack on them and NOT be covered under warranty! Stone stoves take much longer to heat up, though they do retain their heat longer than cast or plate steel stoves. I like the way they look, but I'd always be VERY nervous about trying to ever move one without cracking the stone panels. I wouldn't want to buy an engine block made of stone............

As for Vermont Castings, it's true that they have been in various stages of bankruptcy, but so has United Airlines, GM, Ford, etc. and they are all still in business and doing just fine! VC stoves are very attractive, very efficient, and IMHO easy to work on and find parts for. We bought a Defiant-Encore Cat stove used from a family friend for $100, and then put another $100 into it and it's a GREAT stove! Can't speak from experience about the Dutchwest stoves. Jotul, Arrow, Pacific Energy, and Lopi all get rave reviews from their owners. 

Look on Craigslist in your area--there's always good deals to be had on used stoves!


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## Highbeam (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks NP,

This is true, if you overfire your soapstone stove it can crack. As an owner I can say that I have not cracked or ever heard of a cracked heritage. Further, the cracks that I observed (internet) were on overfired small soapstone stoves like the tributes or homesteads and not the larger heritage, mansfield, or equinox. The little stoves aren't meant to heat large spaces but are so dang cute. 

It is very obvious when a stove has been overfired to the point of failure.

Oh and VC has some very nice looking stoves and their older stoves were excellent performers too. The current generation of non-cat stoves are a disaster and the company is not making good on warranty. Parts availablity has gone way downhill with high prices when available. This is not the same as a company like GM that makes good (IMO) vehicles, supplies parts, and honors their warranties. I wouldn't let my family buy a VC product, they are set to tank.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 10, 2009)

*Here's Mine After 22 Years*

Just polished her up for you with Rutland stove polish. I do this every year in August prior to the first burn:





Note that your pic shows a single door and mine has double doors in front. I also removed the legs and went with a fireplace insert. This stove can go both ways. Also, you can dispense with the glass and have a solid front. I like the glass and bought a couple of spares at a glass shop in case I crack one. I never have.

So what have I done to her in 22 years, averaging 5 cords a year? Not too much because it was so well built. Last year I finally replaced the inside fireback casting with a 1/4" steel plate that cost a "whopping" $22 from a welding shop. After I bolted that on, the stove loved that. This year I finally rebuilt the flue collar. That was easy. (See the thread I posted earlier this week). Remember, this puppy can get to 1400 F if you let it, and that will take a toll on steel or cast iron. 

The 25" log capacity is fabulous. I never have regretted that. This stove has a catalytic combustor posibility, but I have been experimenting with making a steel plate to replace it. The cat combustor does work very well, and I can get 1200 F with either it or a heavy steel, perforated plate that they used to include for burning coal.

A terrific feature is the shaker grates and big ash pan door underneath. You can run the stove non-stop. The ashes stay cool enough in the ash pan that with proper timing, you can dump them without letting the fire go out.

Remember also that this stove kicks out convection heat also with the lower ports and upper ports. The 2-speed blower doubles that output and the thermostat switch works to perfection, turning on only when the fire is hot. I like the blower because it even tells me when to turn the block-off plate and thus fire up the secondary combustion chamber.

There is so much control of the fire that many people become confused trying to use this stove. However, with a little practice, it's a piece of cake. You will not be disappointed because it's a tried and proven performer. Install it free-standing, and you will even get more heat out of it than my installation. Then you will wonder how on earth you can get all that colossal heat to the rest of the house.






Looks kind of nice, too. My flat-coated retriever loves that rug in front of the stove. Oh, and BTW, I made a pull-out grate that allows cooking a juicy steak with the doors open over a low fire.


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## husky455rancher (Aug 10, 2009)

looks real nice man. i really wish i woulda ponied up more cash when i bought my insert. at the time i knew nothing about stoves and i sure as hell didnt think it was going to turn into my perminant heat source. my dutchwest if fine for what it is but the burn time advertised and what the dealer told me is total BS. my insert was just over 1200 i think 3 years ago.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 10, 2009)

Husky, you and Stihl Sawing are two terrific members of this Forum. I used to burn lots of wood in Connecticut using a Vermont Castings Defiant--a terrific stove and mostly cast iron. "Hotter than a $2 pistol". I loved that Defiant but had to leave it behind as my life changed.

When I moved to Nebraska, I looked hard and far to a stove that might beat the Defiant and one that I could still afford. The only stove I found was the Federal Airtight, and I bought the biggest one that Consolidated Dutchwest sold--the 288.

Back then, cat combustors were high technology, so I looked for that. However, the cat combustors are hard to clean and companies made big bucks selling them to people who bought them every other year or more. Worse yet, cat combustors fall apart after a few years when you burn 5+ cords a year. I have always cut, split, and burned that much dry wood every year.

So the bottom line is this. The stove that Stihl Sawing shows is the present-day version of my stove that I have nicknamed "Jaws". It swallows up whatever I feed it and asks few questions. It handles a 2' log with ease, and the side loading door is a huge plus. Few stoves have a side loading door.

This stove is mostly cast iron, and that separates it from many other offerings. Cast iron creaks when it heats up, and that is music to my ears. And, when cast iron gets hot, it stays that way, very slowly cooling down--similar to a cast iron skillet. The stoves shown here (mine and the one SS shows) weigh close to 600 lb, and that's a bunch of cast iron.

Would I buy this stove again after using it for 22 years? Heheheheheh. Only unless I could not find another one. But Stihl Sawing just showed it to all of us. Glad to see the foundry is still making these, and who cares where that is these days?


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## stihl sawing (Aug 10, 2009)

well me and the wife has been talking about it and the vermont stove is one we both like. I hear all the bad things about it and makes me nervous. But like anything there are pros and cons. I also hear a lot of good things about it too. Just looking at the stove on the showroom floor it looks like it's well made. Now i can't see everything inside of it but the outside walls are heavy. As Wood Doctor mentioned it is heavy at 635 pounds. I've never owned a cat stove so it will be a new experience for me.


I know our old stove burns wood like crazy, It does a great job of heating the house but it takes a lot of wood every winter. They have the stove in stock, i just need to get the time to go get it and round up a couple of strong guys to get in the house. My house is not very big so it should do the job. Never owned one with a glass front either, That's going to be neat to look at. I do appreciate all the comments on the stove and i will certainly post pics of it when it's installed. Not going to do nothing fancy, just set it on a pan. Would like to build a hearth to set it on but really don't have the room.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 11, 2009)

Well, they have made a few design changes to the present-day version of this stove, and I imagine this has been for the better. On the new version as your picture shows,
(1) there is no lower side intake for convection air below the loading door.
(2) the convection air exhaust at the top is one continuous slot.
(3) the removable hot plate on top is much larger.
(4) the front door is a single piece.
(5) hardware controls are different.

However, it would appear that not much else has changed. The legs are stronger than they look. I see where you were concerned about that.

Also, be aware that the secret to this stove's success and efficiency is successful secondary combustion in that top chamber, all made possible by a heavy block off damper plate near the top rear that is pivoted using a mechanism that you control just above the side loading door. That should be closed after the flue temp reaches about 400 F or so. It is not closed automatically, nor is it opened automatically. When closed, the secondary exhaust gas temp will go right up. I find that 1000 to 1200 F is ideal.

Prior to starting the fire and whenever you open the loading door to add fuel, you must open that block off plate to send exhaust through the primary flue. Otherwise, you will get a puff of smoke in the house. After awhile, this becomes routine, but it takes a bit of getting used to.

This stove has a double-wall back, and it is the inside wall that I eventually had to replace after 21 years. The flue collar lasted 22 years. To me, replacing these parts was trivial. The swiveling shaker grate mechanism above the ash pan operates flawlessly today and I don't even see signs of wear. How they did that I will never know--pure quality design I guess.

I seldom rely on this stove burning longer than 9 hours on a single load. It can be done, but I prefer to add fuel every six hours and to not throttle it down. You will eventually find an ideal air intake setting for your installation and draft conditions. The air intake control flexibility is huge.

As with many stoves, mixed hardwoods provide the best fires. I burn ash, oak, elm, maple, mulberry, locust, and a few others. Combinations always work the best rather than just one species. Mixing different sized logs also works better--the smaller ones help the big ones stay hot. When reloading, I try to throw in three or four logs rather than just one. This stove loves that procedure, and that's another reason why I nicknamed it "Jaws".


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## stihl sawing (Aug 11, 2009)

Wood Doctor said:


> Well, they have made a few design changes to the present-day version of this stove, and I imagine this has been for the better. On the new version as your picture shows,
> (1) there is no lower side intake for convection air below the loading door.
> (2) the convection air exhaust at the top is one continuous slot.
> (3) the removable hot plate on top is much larger.
> ...


Thank you so much for the information, Most all the wood will be oak. For some reason the pic don't show all the hardware. there is a wood piece that screws in the metal. It will need to burn all night which will be about 8 to nine 9 hours. I will burn other hardwoods when needed but right now it will see red oak for three or four winters. Rep coming you're way when it lets me, Thanks again.


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## nategyoder (Aug 11, 2009)

I have a very small dutchwest and love it! It looks identical to the one you are talking about but smaller. The manual says it will take 19" pieces of wood but 16" is more realistic if you have any coals in there. You will love the cat feature when you figure it out. It is not that hard. Mine does not have the super cool shaker grate. The glass front is awesome! Every morning when I empty the ash (I have to do this every day? Maybe the small stove is less efficient? Whatever not a big deal.) I take some wet newspaper to the glass and then a dry newspaper. It is easy and only takes a min. if you don't let everything build up on it for days. You will love it! I bought mine used last year so I have only had it one year so I can not comment on the longevity but everything on it still looks great so far. 

Nate


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## stihl sawing (Aug 11, 2009)

nategyoder said:


> I have a very small dutchwest and love it! It looks identical to the one you are talking about but smaller. The manual says it will take 19" pieces of wood but 16" is more realistic if you have any coals in there. You will love the cat feature when you figure it out. It is not that hard. Mine does not have the super cool shaker grate. The glass front is awesome! Every morning when I empty the ash (I have to do this every day? Maybe the small stove is less efficient? Whatever not a big deal.) I take some wet newspaper to the glass and then a dry newspaper. It is easy and only takes a min. if you don't let everything build up on it for days. You will love it! I bought mine used last year so I have only had it one year so I can not comment on the longevity but everything on it still looks great so far.
> 
> Nate


Good to know, Thanks


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## chainsaway (Aug 11, 2009)

we have the little Tribute from Hearthstone and love it. we decided on it because: surface temps are lower than plate or cast i.e. safer for kids and pets, only need supplemental heat so bought the little guy, and the admiral overuled my pick (jotul) cause its such a dang cute stove with a huge window for it's size. We feed the little stove every 3 to 4 hours and it will heat half the house comfortably, so when another icestorm hits we'll all be comfy...
Cheers! alain
ps gone on holidays in 4 hours for 3 weeks....


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## stihl sawing (Aug 11, 2009)

I have an important question for you guys, My pipe is currently 6 inch and the stove calls for 8 inch. The salesman said the make a reducer so is the 6 inch going to work or am i going to have to get new pipe. The pipe i have is not that old.


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## chainsaway (Aug 11, 2009)

*salesman says.....hmmmmm*

I'd read the instructions from the stove manufacturer and stick to it... sure it has been done on occasion and sometimes works well but would not put my money on it, besides 6" is so standard you won't have any trouble selling it!
anyway careful on that on, it seems like a can of worms to me! stay safe.
cheers! alain


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## Nonprophet (Aug 11, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> I have an important question for you guys, My pipe is currently 6 inch and the stove calls for 8 inch. The salesman said the make a reducer so is the 6 inch going to work or am i going to have to get new pipe. The pipe i have is not that old.



In general they say that you should'nt reduce down, but going up is ok i.e it's ok to go from a 6" stove pipe opening on the stove into 8" stove run, but not the other way around.

It can be done though, it just depends on how much draft you have with your existing 6" pipe and that depends on how long the total pipe run is (more pipe=stronger draft, but you CAN have too much draft too.......) and how many (if any) bends (i.e 45 or 90 degree elbows) you have in your stove pipe run.

Is the dealer going to install it for you, and are you going to do it yourself? If they do it, they can analyze your existing setup and let you know if they think it will work. If you're going to do it yourself, I'd suggest checking in on the forums at ********** There are some very knowledgeable folks there and I'm sure several that have your stove who could offer some good advice based on their own installations.

Each stove and installation is different, but no doubt having the right amount of draft (not too much or not too little) is very important to having a happy and efficient wood stove.

Good luck!


NP


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## tjbier (Aug 12, 2009)

My in laws have the Dutchwest, but not as big as the one you have mentioned. Theirs is 18" and up to 1200 sq ft. They have had it 3 years now
and really like it but it is too small for their house, but they got a sweet deal on it, naturally they bought it. It is a good stove and they are really happy with it, side door for loading is really nice. They burned 2.5 cord last year, and we had a aweful December and January. And they have 8" pipe on it. They just wish it was bigger.


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## stihl sawing (Aug 31, 2009)

Well here she is, I finally got time to go get it and set it up. Took four strong men to get it in the house. That thing was heavy. Made a small fire in it to season the cast iron.



















This was the old stove. It is 25 years old and has a leak somewhere.


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## stihl sawing (Aug 31, 2009)

What is the best way to clean the glass. i tried water and glass cleaner and they didn't do the job.


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## tjbier (Aug 31, 2009)

the wifey says, take newspaper get it damp rub it in the soot or ashes and then rub the window. sounds wierd but they have a cleaning business and they would know. Then wipe it down with windex or something of the like.
Congrats on the stove she's a beuty, keep you nice and warm!!!!!


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## stihl sawing (Aug 31, 2009)

tjbier said:


> the wifey says, take newspaper get it damp rub it in the soot or ashes and then rub the window. sounds wierd but they have a cleaning business and they would know. Then wipe it down with windex or something of the like.
> Congrats on the stove she's a beuty, keep you nice and warm!!!!!


Thanks i'll try that. I hope it works as good as the old one.


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## tjbier (Aug 31, 2009)

Hey SS those things are a "ton" of fun to move arn't they?! 
BTW you are going to love that side door for loading the wood into!! very handy option


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## stihl sawing (Aug 31, 2009)

tjbier said:


> Hey SS those things are a "ton" of fun to move arn't they?!


Oh man, There was four of us. Three of them were big dudes. I don't mean fat either. I was a weakling but had to help. We were straining big time. Think everybody was wore out after the install. I even took both doors and the grate off. It's supposed to weigh 641 pounds and it felt like 2000 pounds.lol


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## mjl (Sep 1, 2009)

You should take a look at jotul line of stoves they boast the largest capacity stove on the market.I installed the rockland insert last year and that ran great spent no money on oil that and that felt even better! I have 2000sq cape and live in wells,me


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 1, 2009)

*Speedy White*



stihl sawing said:


> What is the best way to clean the glass. i tried water and glass cleaner and they didn't do the job.


I personally have never used this product, but it might be worth a try:
http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SA-8053&source=froogle&kw=5SA-8053&source=froogle&kw=5SA-8053&source=froogle&kw=5SA-8053


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## stihl sawing (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the replys, I will have to experiment with the glass when it's fired up. Never had one with a glass, always just a circulator like my old one. I really hope these new ones with the catalyst use less wood. The only thing i've found that i don't like about the stove is the handle system. It uses one handle to open all the doors. The problem is it's too small and don't go up in the door opener very far. Also a sloppy fit. The handle comes out easy when you try to open a door. I burned myself already trying to hold it in while i turned it.


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## tjbier (Sep 1, 2009)

did you get the porcilin handle or the wood? because the porcilin one broke the first time it was dropped on the hearth.. oops


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## stihl sawing (Sep 1, 2009)

tjbier said:


> did you get the porcilin handle or the wood? because the porcilin one broke the first time it was dropped on the hearth.. oops


It's plastic with a metal end that sticks in the openers. Kinda cheesy. I'll try and get a close up pic tommorrow of the handle and the opener.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 2, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> Thanks for all the replys, I will have to experiment with the glass when it's fired up. Never had one with a glass, always just a circulator like my old one. I really hope these new ones with the catalyst use less wood. The only thing i've found that i don't like about the stove is the handle system. It uses one handle to open all the doors. The problem is it's too small and don't go up in the door opener very far. Also a sloppy fit. The handle comes out easy when you try to open a door. I burned myself already trying to hold it in while i turned it.


Note the brass handles that I show in my Pic of the old Federal 288. It should have been a loose fit, but not a really sloppy fit. Also, It appears that my brass handles are bigger. The brass portion will actually unscrew completely for cleaning and polishing. And, it is held tight with a separate set screw after being screwed in tight. 

I would ask the seller about this. If they have nothing to offer, consider making a hardwooden extension for them (say 3" or 4") that could be held in place with a couple of set screws or pinned.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 2, 2009)

Well the pics didn't turn out too good but you can see what it is. all the fits in the handle is that small piece on the end. Handle is small itself.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 2, 2009)

Dang, SS! We need to improve this engineering somehow. Consider this. A local welder could weld the extension you are holding in your hand onto the part that now fastens to the stove with a set screw. Then remove the existing set screw that holds the assembly to the stove so that you would be working with one larger removable piece, similar to mine.

In short, attach the separate piece in your hand permanenty to the piece that you show that looks like it is now fastened to the stove with only a set screw. That piece does not have to be permanently fastened.

WDYT?


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## stihl sawing (Sep 2, 2009)

Wood Doctor said:


> Dang, SS! We need to improve this engineering somehow. Consider this. A local welder could weld the extension you are holding in your hand onto the part that now fastens to the stove with a set screw. Then remove the existing set screw that holds the assembly to the stove so that you would be working with one larger removable piece, similar to mine.
> 
> In short, attach the separate piece in your hand permanenty to the piece that you show that looks like it is now fastened to the stove with only a set screw. That piece does not have to be permanently fastened.
> 
> WDYT?


It definitely needs an improvement. Kinda hard to believe they put such a cheesy piece on it. I'm gonna look closely at it and may do exactly what you said. First i will go to where i bought it and see if they have another handle that will fit. Thought about just putting a screw in it and leaving it and buying handles for the rest of the openers but i think the plastic would melt. Gonna have to do something, i can see me getting burned often trying to use it.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 3, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> It definitely needs an improvement. Kinda hard to believe they put such a cheesy piece on it. I'm gonna look closely at it and may do exactly what you said. First i will go to where i bought it and see if they have another handle that will fit. Thought about just putting a screw in it and leaving it and buying handles for the rest of the openers but i think the plastic would melt. Gonna have to do something, i can see me getting burned often trying to use it.


Don't worry about melting the plastic. Remember, the idea is that the handle is only temporary and you remove it from the stove when finished using it. That set screw holding the handle assembly to the stove becomes a drone. The square stud that the handle turns always remains there. I believe the set screw screw now presses against that stud tight and that is the only thing holding the 2-part assembly to the square stud. Right?

It just seems to me that it would be easier to use this asembly if the handle extension and the part now secured with the set screw become one removable piece.

That's how I would design it, and that's how it was made 20 years ago.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 3, 2009)

Wood Doctor said:


> Don't worry about melting the plastic. Remember, the idea is that the handle is only temporary and you remove it from the stove when finished using it. That set screw holding the handle assembly to the stove becomes a drone. The square stud that the handle turns always remains there. I believe the set screw screw now presses against that stud tight and that is the only thing holding the 2-part assembly to the square stud. Right?
> 
> It just seems to me that it would be easier to use this asembly if the handle extension and the part now secured with the set screw become one removable piece.
> 
> That's how I would design it, and that's how it was made 20 years ago.


I'll check on how it attaches tonight. Your solution may be the easiest. I wanna leave the chrome ends on the ash pan and the dampener. Will probably just put the handle together for just the side door. i will have to buy another handle for the other doors though. the side door will be used the most.


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## xtm (Sep 3, 2009)

Here is a photo of the Vermont Castings _Resolute_ stove I bought ~1980. This is the old first style _Resolute_ with the double doors, and you can see that it has that same removable handle. A small hole was purposely cast into the left front leg that fits the removable handle perfectly. I've used it as-designed for nearly 30 years - replacing it into its receptical after each use. No problem - everyone knows to replace it where it belongs. Even the little grandkids don't seem to be interested in carrying it off or fooling with it.

If the handle remained attached to the door or firebox of the stove - for even a short period of time - it would quickly become too hot to touch.....thus a good reason to store it sticking out of a part that doesn't get quite so hot.





Here is the storage receptical:





xtm


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## stihl sawing (Sep 3, 2009)

About the same as mine, But they have a brackett that attaches to the foot now.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 3, 2009)

Also looked at the opener closely, It doesn't have a set screw. It's a roll pin. The one on the dampener has a set screw.


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## xtm (Sep 3, 2009)

I believe that you'll eventually come to like that removable handle. 

Curious visitors tend to leave the stove alone, too - there's no fiddling with the various latches and openers it they can't figure out how to dink with it without raising a blister! 

You're gonna love that stove!

xtm


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## stihl sawing (Sep 3, 2009)

xtm said:


> I believe that you'll eventually come to like that removable handle.
> 
> Curious visitors tend to leave the stove alone, too - there's no fiddling with the various latches and openers it they can't figure out how to dink with it without raising a blister!
> 
> xtm


LOL, I got a burn blister the first time. Was just firing in the cast iron like the manual said and grabbed the opener without the handle. Been used to the old stove. The handle stayed on it.


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## Rotorooster (Sep 17, 2009)

*21 year old Dutchwest*

Hey Everyone,
This website is the greatest- I really enjoy all the information exchanged among the colorful personalities!

I am preparing to enter my 22nd year of heating a very loose, 100 -year-old, 2 story house with the medium size (264CCL) Dutchwest catalytic stove insert. Other than replacing the shaker grates twice and the catalytic baffle twice, I've done nothing to it but routine maintenance (door gaskets, yearly stove polish, etc.). During the cold months, it is burned 24/7 around here.

Overall, the stove is a gem. It heats extremely well and it routinely gets 6-7 hour burn cycles. I have the optional (original!) blower which I highly recommend. It's pretty noisy, but it's very effective and I happen to like white noise. In the old days, I didn't get much life from the catalyst, but because of my operating experience and improved combustors the replacement time has probably doubled from 2 to 4 years. 

It seems to me that combustors have improved so much that it actually is a detriment when using a new one- to keep from overheating it, I have to choke the stove down SO far that the loading door will "glue itself' shut with tar, making it a pain to open without pulling the gasket from the door! 

Emissions have always been very clean with the exception of this last year. I finally decided to make my setup "legit" and replaced my pipe and block off plate (which then dumped directly into the tiled chimney) with a stainless steel liner and cap. Imagine my surprise to find in 6 week's time my liner was almost COMPLETELY blocked with creosote- primarily at the top. I wasn't able to use the wrap-around insulation blanket because there isn't enough room for it. I recently bought some ceramic fiber which I plan to "stuff" into the gaps around the liner at the crown. I'm pretty hopeful this will solve the problem as I'm sure it's the cold air sneaking in up there that's the culprit. It's still hard to believe that I could accumulate that much creosote with combustor temps of 1400-1600 degrees.

If I remember correctly, my stove came with little springs which were to be inserted into the "business end" of the handles which wouldn't allow them to be left on the stove- I've never used them. 

With the 30% government incentive going on, I've given some serious thought to buying something new, but I have serious doubts that most new stoves are built anywhere near as stout as this ol' Taiwanese brute. Year after year it's proven itself to be as reliable as death and taxes.........and that's the truth!


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## stihl sawing (Sep 17, 2009)

Great first post Rotorooster, Appreciate the insight on the longivity of the stove. Just hope mine will last as long as yours. Sounds as if you are pleased with it. My old stove was a good one for sure. but it was time to retire it. Didn't know they had cats on them that long ago. Thanks again for the post and rep coming you're way at lunchtime.


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## HARRY BARKER (Sep 20, 2009)

whats the price for a combuster for one of these large dutchwest stoves???

friends got a 2479 DW non cat and the "fountain" fell apart....anywhere from $330 to $400 for this part.


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 20, 2009)

HARRY BARKER said:


> whats the price for a combuster for one of these large dutchwest stoves???
> 
> friends got a 2479 DW non cat and the "fountain" fell apart....anywhere from $330 to $400 for this part.


That's too much dough for my blood. The cat combustors for these stoves were once going for $40 apiece, were hard to clean, and needed annual replacement. I decided to rig up my own "combustor" using 1/4" plate steel. Here's the secondary combustion plate insert that came with the stove for burning coal after five years of steady use:





I might have been able to squeeze another year out of it. However, the flue collar was finally shot after 21 years, so I replaced that with four pieces of angle iron and new bolts:





Then I bought a square steel plate from a welding shop and drilled some holes to match the old plate:




I added a lift-out bolt in the center to make it easy to remove and clean. If it chokes the fire too much, I'll just dill a few more smaller holes. I doubt that I needed any chamfer on the holes. After all, the cat combustors have no chamfered holes. Not sure why the coal insert plate had them chamfered.

I'll keep you posted on how this new parts assembly shakes out. Incidentally, my stove is the Federal 288CCL (thread post #16).


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## HARRY BARKER (Sep 20, 2009)

got any pics of that pull out cooker thing?


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 20, 2009)

HARRY BARKER said:


> got any pics of that pull out cooker thing?


Your wish is my command. I took these shots last year. Here's the grill I made using hollow steel square stock for the handles and 5/16" solid round stock for the grate. Four short legs were bolted on to keep the grill dead level while cooking. The back legs are a little longer than the two in front. I added walnut handles because that grill gets hot while the taters cook:





When the fire dies down and the red hot embers are small enough for the grill to fit over, I open the stove front doors and slide it in over the top of the fire. I cook the potatoes first and relax a half hour or so, adding a few small logs underneath as need be:





Then I add the steaks to the grill along with perhaps a couple of small pieces of hardwood kindling for smoke and heat. When it's all through, I'm ready to serve:




Before eating, I usually close up the stove doors again and throw on some big logs to heat her back up again. Dang, it Harry, now I'm hungry again.


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## HARRY BARKER (Sep 20, 2009)

sweeeeeeet!!!! looks great!

you got power there or you just run on candles?


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## Wood Doctor (Sep 20, 2009)

HARRY BARKER said:


> sweeeeeeet!!!! looks great!
> 
> you got power there or you just run on candles?


ROFALMFAO! :greenchainsaw:


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## stihl sawing (Sep 21, 2009)

Great ingenuity wood doctor. Gonna try to cook off mine this winter too. Really hope them cats aren't that much money. Pretty neat the way you can open you're door and cook off the flame, On my old stove if you tried that you would fill the house up with smoke. Those steaks look really tasty.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 4, 2009)

Got a question, I have had it going for two days now and just put two dry sticks of oak in it, Noticed it is smoking quite a bit. I thought when it went through the cat it would burn all the smoke. So you guys that burn these do they smoke or is something wrong. I'm kinda concerned. Hope the cat is working properly.


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## laynes69 (Oct 4, 2009)

Cat stoves require a certain temp on the cat before it fires off. Once up to temp then you can close the bypass and send the smoke through the cat. Is it hot enough?


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## stihl sawing (Oct 4, 2009)

laynes69 said:


> Cat stoves require a certain temp on the cat before it fires off. Once up to temp then you can close the bypass and send the smoke through the cat. Is it hot enough?


thanks and i think you hit the nail on the head, I did close the dampner too soon before it got up to operating temps. Oh well i'm still learning. never had a cat stove before. Again thanks.


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## laynes69 (Oct 4, 2009)

Good well enjoy the heat from the new stove. I'm sure it will do you much better!


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## Wood Doctor (Oct 4, 2009)

*Mix the Oak*



stihl sawing said:


> Got a question, I have had it going for two days now and just put two dry sticks of oak in it, Noticed it is smoking quite a bit. I thought when it went through the cat it would burn all the smoke. So you guys that burn these do they smoke or is something wrong. I'm kinda concerned. Hope the cat is working properly.


Also, be sure that the oak is dead dry and resting on a red hot bed of coals. Oak logs are a bear to burn in a cat stove that isn't hot before you drop them on, especially oak that may have some moisture content.

I always mix oak with species that burn easier, such as maple, cottonwood, basswood, or good old elm. Oak loves the company.

Ash, in my opinion, is still the best firewood that exists, closely followed by red elm.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 4, 2009)

Wood Doctor said:


> Also, be sure that the oak is dead dry and resting on a red hot bed of coals. Oak logs are a bear to burn in a cat stove that isn't hot before you drop them on, especially oak that may have some moisture content.
> 
> I always mix oak with species that burn easier, such as maple, cottonwood, basswood, or good old elm. Oak loves the company.
> 
> Ash, in my opinion, is still the best firewood that exists, closely followed by red elm.


The oaks about two years old and i didn't have a lot of coals there. I let it go too long before i put wood in it but it's not that cold yet and didn't want to make it hot in the house. I have some sweetgum but that's about the only other wood i have.


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## Marc (Oct 5, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> The oaks about two years old and i didn't have a lot of coals there. I let it go too long before i put wood in it but it's not that cold yet and didn't want to make it hot in the house. I have some sweetgum but that's about the only other wood i have.



Try splitting it down a little when you're burning in warm weather. It obviously takes a bigger, hotter bed of coals to get bigger wood to burn, and burn cleanly... so in warm weather, I keep small splits and sticks handy, maintain a smaller coal bed, and still burn cleanly and completely by using smaller stuff, just on the edge of the temperature where you cat is being effective.

Caveat: I don't have a cat stove, I have one of those handsome looking Heritage stoves... but I've burned lots of wood in my father's catalytic VC Encore as well.


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## tibikedad (Oct 5, 2009)

*Dutchwest Stove*

Hi,

I have a Dutchwest (large size) stove, and used it for about 6 years at 4-5 chords / year. It was a great stove, and didn't give me any trouble. I moved it after 3 years, destroying the combuster in the move, but it was easy to replace it (unfortunately, it was $100). It ran fine after that.

Now I also have a Tarm Excel dual fuel boiler in my basement, so I don't run the wood stove much any more, but I still fire it up occasionally on cold nights when my wife and I are watching TV. The Tarm boiler heats my entire house, consuming about 10 chords of wood. However, I don't get to enjoy watching the flames in the wood stove, which is the only downside of the boiler.

I had the same problem as a previous post with the handle. I dropped it and broke the ceramic. However, I made a wood handle on my lathe out of hard wood, and it has worked great. It has some teeth marks from my dog, but that just gives it character. I do wish it was larger, and someday I'll take the screw and wood off, get a longer screw, and make a bigger one. That is on my "to do" list, which is really long, so I'm not holding my breath for that to happen!

I also bought the blower attachment. It makes a huge difference in the heat output. I would really recommend blowers for all wood stoves. Mine is free standing, about 7 inches from the wall, and even then, when the blower is on, there is so much more heat than without it. It is noisy, though. I keep the speed on low when I watch TV, and put it on high when I leave the room. I need to get a timer for the blower so that it turns off after 5 or 6 hours (during the night time), because eventually the fire burns out during the night and I just blow cold air though the stove, chewing up electricity for nothing.

Have fun with your new stove. I'm sure you will like it.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 5, 2009)

Good info Marc, i will use small pieces. been throwin a decent size one on and it takes a while to catch up. BTW: Nice looking stove ya got there.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 5, 2009)

tibikedad said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Dutchwest (large size) stove, and used it for about 6 years at 4-5 chords / year. It was a great stove, and didn't give me any trouble. I moved it after 3 years, destroying the combuster in the move, but it was easy to replace it (unfortunately, it was $100). It ran fine after that.
> 
> ...


the salesman talked me out of the blower, So i bought a fan that stands on a pedastal. It seems to work well, a little too well it got hot last night.lol Mine will burn all night and still have plenty of coals left in the morning, Now it's not cold yet so it may burn faster when i have to open the air more.


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## stackwood (Oct 11, 2009)

*Parts?*

My farmer friend next door just gave me a Federal air tight but it's missing the cat and square cover that goes on top is missing were can I get parts ?? 

Thanks


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## Wood Doctor (Oct 11, 2009)

stackwood said:


> My farmer friend next door just gave me a Federal air tight but it's missing the cat and square cover that goes on top is missing were can I get parts ??
> 
> Thanks


If the square cover cannot be found anywhere, take the dimensions into a welding shop and ask them to help you make the square cover on the top using 5/16" steel plate. The thermometer on top is a luxury item.

The cat you can replace by making a block-off plate with the same stock if you have a drill press. Take a look at what I made. Here is the old coal-burning insert supplied by Dutchwest:





I then rebuilt the flue color and made this for it with scrap angle iron and common bolts:





Then I replaced the worn out coal-burning insert with this gem that I made with 1/4" steel plate:





It works beautifully. Total cost about $15.


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## wobdee (Oct 11, 2009)

stackwood said:


> My farmer friend next door just gave me a Federal air tight but it's missing the cat and square cover that goes on top is missing were can I get parts ??
> 
> Thanks



Try these guys
http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/h5841/Home.html
http://www.woodstovecombustors.com/


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## stihl sawing (Oct 11, 2009)

Still trying to learn the cat stove, Had a few fires in it and a couple of days it was backpuffing pretty bad, I could open the dampner and the air control and it would stop but then the stove would get too hot. I did learn you have to get the new wood fired up good and heated before shutting the dampner off. I know some days i've always had trouble with backpuffing. Something about the barometer too low.


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## Wood Doctor (Oct 11, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> Still trying to learn the cat stove, Had a few fires in it and a couple of days it was backpuffing pretty bad, I could open the dampner and the air control and it would stop but then the stove would get too hot. I did learn you have to get the new wood fired up good and heated before shutting the dampner off. I know some days i've always had trouble with backpuffing. Something about the barometer too low.


Wait until you get a high pressure center in town. Best indication is a north wind that freezes your butt and doubles the draft in your stove. 

Also, I keep the bottom air valve half cranked open at least half way or more most of the time and control the rest of the air intake with the valve on the loading door. You'll eventually get the hang of it.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 11, 2009)

Wood Doctor said:


> Wait until you get a high pressure center in town. Best indication is a north wind that freezes your butt and doubles the draft in your stove.
> 
> Also, I keep the bottom air valve half cranked open at least half way or more most of the time and control the rest of the air intake with the valve on the loading door. You'll eventually get the hang of it.


I'm gettin better, It's really not cold enough for a hot fire and keeping it low is what's giving me troubles. i don't have an air control on the loading door. There is one on the combuster, But the book says it don't have anything to do with the fire. The problem is keeping the combuster temps up while burning a low fire. It gets really hot in the house with combuster temps at normal.


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## wobdee (Oct 11, 2009)

I have heard from some other Dutchwest owners that they leave that combustor air control at about 1/4 to 1/2 and leave it there, then you control the heat output with the primary air control. It will take you some trial and error and the warmer weather can be tuff on fires at times. Do you have a stove thermometer? Great tool to know when to close the bypass damper to engage the cat.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 11, 2009)

wobdee said:


> I have heard from some other Dutchwest owners that they leave that combustor air control at about 1/4 to 1/2 and leave it there, then you control the heat output with the primary air control. It will take you some trial and error and the warmer weather can be tuff on fires at times. Do you have a stove thermometer? Great tool to know when to close the bypass damper to engage the cat.


Yes i have one on the door, I've tried the combuster air several ways and been trying to do what the book says. I really can't tell it does anything to tell you the truth. The book says 1 and half to two full turns for a hot fire. We've been running it on about one turn .


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## milkman (Oct 16, 2009)

*Ex Large*

SS, just found this thread and since we have the same stove, I'm shopping for a new red saw like yours.:blob4:I've had one of these for at least 15 yrs. and after I learned to use it I really like it. Last year I replaced the original catalyst and repaired the cracked fireback. I've replaced the door gaskets a couple of times and the gasket under the top when I replaced the cat. It burns a lot less wood than my old non-cat stove and puts out almost no smoke. As far as the handle for the doors and damper, after you use it for a while, you can fire it without turning on the lights, and you asked about cleaning the glass, when you get into the burn season and have a hotter fire, the glass stays pretty clean. Here's a pic of mine before we started the winter fire last year.


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## stihl sawing (Oct 16, 2009)

milkman said:


> SS, just found this thread and since we have the same stove, I'm shopping for a new red saw like yours.:blob4:I've had one of these for at least 15 yrs. and after I learned to use it I really like it. Last year I replaced the original catalyst and repaired the cracked fireback. I've replaced the door gaskets a couple of times and the gasket under the top when I replaced the cat. It burns a lot less wood than my old non-cat stove and puts out almost no smoke. As far as the handle for the doors and damper, after you use it for a while, you can fire it without turning on the lights, and you asked about cleaning the glass, when you get into the burn season and have a hotter fire, the glass stays pretty clean. Here's a pic of mine before we started the winter fire last year.


That looks great the way you have it set up. i'm gettin used to mine. Good to hear about the longivity of the cat. At first i hated the handles but slowly geeting used to them at least i haven't burned my hand anymore.lol Be careful when you purchase one of those red saws, they are very powerful.:monkey: Once again you have a beautiful stove and room, Thanks for the pic. Wish my room looked that good.


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