# Which Klotz?



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

Which klotz oil do you guys run? The stihl ultra is gone sky high at the local stihl dealer so I'm not going to run it any more. A 6 pack of ultra 1 gallon mix is a little over $10 now:msp_mad: I've ran the motul 2t 710 and it seemed fine also but a little high. The bike shop doesn't carry maxima K2.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 24, 2011)

R50 doesn't burn that clean. That's why myself and Andre switched to K2.


----------



## young (Nov 24, 2011)

how about Super TechniPlate or BeNOL Racing Castor Oil?


----------



## Man of $tihl (Nov 24, 2011)

TechniPlate 32\1


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 24, 2011)

R50 is the only one I've tried. Been running it 45:1 now for awhile. I have noticed it to burn a little dirty though. Maybe I'll try that K2 next.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 24, 2011)

young said:


> how about Super TechniPlate or BeNOL Racing Castor Oil?



I would think BeNOL would leave a lot of deposits. Techniplate is the choice by those using alcohol, IIRC.


----------



## WoodChuck'r (Nov 24, 2011)

R50

My life isn't ruined if the piston top is black.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I've been using original techniplate but i'm almost out. Just trying to decide what to get next or try something new. I usually mix 3 oz per gallon so i'm not running as much oil as a lot of you.


----------



## Rounder (Nov 24, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> Which klotz oil do you guys run? The stihl ultra is gone sky high at the local stihl dealer so I'm not going to run it any more. A 6 pack of ultra 1 gallon mix is a little over $10 now:msp_mad: I've ran the motul 2t 710 and it seemed fine also but a little high. The bike shop doesn't carry maxima K2.



Did you look into getting the ultra by the gallon? I buy it that way and it's a bit cheaper than klotz, at least where I shop. Just a thought.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 24, 2011)

There can be only one....


Super Techniplate @ 32:1


BTW, deposits are a non-issue.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Did you look into getting the ultra by the gallon? I buy it that way and it's a bit cheaper than klotz, at least where I shop. Just a thought.



Sam I don't think they even get the 5 gallon mix bottles anywhere local. The ultra is not a big seller around here.


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 24, 2011)

Do you guys think the Maxima burns cleaner than HP Ultra? I've been pleased with ultra but I'm not opposed to switching.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I can't get maxima K2 local without ordering but the bike shop said it's no problem to add it to an order so it wouldn't be a special order. Will it burn clean at 45-50:1? I don't feel the need for more oil than that on a work saw. I did try some motul 2t 710 and it seemed like fine oil and was really leaving a good film on the inside of several saws. It was kinda pricey at $9 for a pint. They said they could order the 800 or whatever series I wanted also. I've used a quart of klotz and like the original but was wondering if one of the others is really better.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 24, 2011)

Super techni-plate 20% degummed castor bean oil. Has a lower flash point than alot of the others, real close to 2T.


And the sweet smell of my youth!


----------



## gink595 (Nov 24, 2011)

Original Techniplate 32:1


----------



## one.man.band (Nov 24, 2011)

for those that have never ran motorcycle/racing oils in saws.

synthetic motorcycle/racing oils are different in a couple of ways than synthetic 'chainsaw' oils.

1. viscosity - thicker, make that way thicker.
2. flashpoint - way higher (chainsaw type: 250 to 425F) vs. (moto/race oil 450 to 550F)

retuning will be necessary. because of 1. and 2. what that translates into when using them in a saw is lots of counterclockwise richening of the high speed jet. about 15% richer. (because they don't add to the combustion process as much as 'chainsaw' oils, and more gas from carb is needed).

these moto/race oils don't burn off like lower (read :cheaper) flashpoint oils. the motor will usually be way cleaner because they don't carbon as much. 550F is up there. probably some drool out the pipe.

some of these race oils are not meant to be run at 50:1. usually 32:1 average what most folks run on these.

castor oils are great stuff. buildup of goopiness will most likely occur though. not much way around that. castor oil not only lubricates your intestines better, it is better than synth as far as heat protecting your motor.

once you retune and get over the $10 to $15 a quart wallet lightening all is fine. 

+1 for the 80% synth, 20% castor blend


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

A couple of the saws it will be ran in are autotune and the do all the tuning for me so that part doesn't matter. If the stihl dealer wasn't so high I would keep running that stuff. I just like the smell of klotz and it does provide some extra protection. The $12 a quart works out cheaper than the stihl ultra from the co-op.


----------



## ECsaws (Nov 24, 2011)

Ive ran Klotz original techniplate for years in both gas & alky saws I have neaver had a issue oil related of any kind.
A Buddie of mine picked up a quart of the lite techniplate (KL 198) Ive ran 5 gals of fuel mixed with this stuff and I really like it, nice clean burn and everything has a nice film on it... kinda smells like soap when it burning.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I might try the lite techniplate. It sounds like it might be a good choice for a saw. They don't have the tech sheet for it on their website. I was just going to pick up some more original but I'm stuck in a motel today so I have nothing better to do then start an oil thread.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 24, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> I might try the lite techniplate. It sounds like it might be a good choice for a saw. They don't have the tech sheet for it on their website. I was just going to pick up some more original but I'm stuck in a motel today so I have nothing better to do then start an oil thread.



Sounds good Mike,
Let us know what younthink about it...
I've run the techniplate .80/20 for a long time in fflushcutting for sstumpgrinding. Never had an idssue,,,
I bought a gal on of Ultra a year ago and it's almost gone,,

Parrisw is sold on theAmsoil saber

Keep us posted


----------



## stihl038x2 (Nov 24, 2011)

This is what I use...... smells good too 

R 50® TechniPlate®

Steve


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I'll probably call Klotz tomorrow and see if they're in and inquire about the lite. I was planning on buying about a gallon of mix at a time but I might try one quart of it from them and try it.


----------



## WoodChuck'r (Nov 24, 2011)

stihl038x2 said:


> This is what I use...... smells good too
> 
> R 50® TechniPlate®
> 
> Steve



R50 @ 32:1 with VP D12 makes up one deliciously good smelling cocktail. It's all I use.


----------



## Motorsen (Nov 24, 2011)

*Have a look on this!*

This is the oil I trust my 2-strokes on! Have a look for your self: http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/FichePDF/lang_1/163.pdf
You oil crackers have a look on this great oil. And yes it is virtualy totaly smoke free. 
The only consern I have is when looking on the spec sheet is that it is a quite heavy oil opposed to the "conventional" chainsaw oils. This is a SAE 30 oil.
The Stihl ultra and Husqvarna Xp/low smoke is "only" what I would call 10 to 20 weight oils. Maybe I am to high in vicousity on this oil. But it sure shows higher compresion opposed to the "conventional" chainsaw oils.
Ofcourse the Stihl and Husqy oils is a compromise as all other products but they are biased towards cold operation in the woods of Sweden and Canada in the winter? And have a "reserve" towards a hot application on summer operation. I mean not idaelly suited for summer operation. And so may "my" oil not be suited for winter applications. 
Please chime in and give some good qualified and constructive answers. 

Regards
Motorsen


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

That's a good looking oil on paper. Never heard of it before over here so it may not be available.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 24, 2011)

That looks like good stuff, probably hard to find over here.

Klotz is made about 10 minutes from where I work.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

The closest bike shop doesn't stock klotz but will order it. I can probably buy it straight from klotz cheaper than the 9.5% tax on it at home. They have a lot of belray and spectro and had maxima 927 in stock.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 24, 2011)

You can get it cheaper from Summit than from the factory.

You can get multiples for the same shipping as 1.


----------



## zogger (Nov 24, 2011)

*Why?*

If the motorcycle oil is better for saws..err.. why don't the saw manufacturers, who contract out their oil and specify how it is blended, make their oil that same way? All their engineers and testing aren't good? They've never heard of motorcycle oil blends (no one at husky, stihl, dolmar, echo etc never owned a bike??) and never checked those out?

I'm just wondering what this rationale is, that's all, really, it is a legit question. For the record, I have bounced around and settled on echo oil, @ around 45:1. Got no dog in the oil wars fight, just wondering why the cycle oil over the actual chainsaw oil, and also, have any of ya'all uber enthusiasts and builders ever emailed or called any of the big saw companies and asked them directly what is up with their oil and why it isn't acceptable, why you don't get the same performance? Is it just some EPA crap that somehow the motorcycle manufacturers aren't subject to, but the chainsaw guys are?

Just looking for the real science (or politics), that's all.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

If the bike oil is cheaper and better then why not run it? I want synthetic and stihl ultra is ultra high local. A quart of klotz was $12. I can mix 12 gallons of 50:1 out of it. Stihl ultra is $20 for 2 six packs for 12 gallons.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 24, 2011)

zogger said:


> If the motorcycle oil is better for saws..err.. why don't the saw manufacturers, who contract out their oil and specify how it is blended, make their oil that same way? All their engineers and testing aren't good? They've never heard of motorcycle oil blends (no one at husky, stihl, dolmar, echo etc never owned a bike??) and never checked those out?
> 
> I'm just wondering what this rationale is, that's all, really, it is a legit question. For the record, I have bounced around and settled on echo oil, @ around 45:1. Got no dog in the oil wars fight, just wondering why the cycle oil over the actual chainsaw oil, and also, have any of ya'all uber enthusiasts and builders ever emailed or called any of the big saw companies and asked them directly what is up with their oil and why it isn't acceptable, why you don't get the same performance? Is it just some EPA crap that somehow the motorcycle manufacturers aren't subject to, but the chainsaw guys are?
> 
> Just looking for the real science (or politics), that's all.



Dunno,

Klotz is NOT just motorcycle oil.
They make stuff for sleds, outboards, Karts, RC and on and on.
I didn't ever stay at a Holiday Inn, but I have talked to a few of the Klotz engineers.

They know their oil.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 24, 2011)

zogger said:


> If the motorcycle oil is better for saws..err.. why don't the saw manufacturers, who contract out their oil and specify how it is blended, make their oil that same way? All their engineers and testing aren't good? They've never heard of motorcycle oil blends (no one at husky, stihl, dolmar, echo etc never owned a bike??) and never checked those out?
> 
> I'm just wondering what this rationale is, that's all, really, it is a legit question. For the record, I have bounced around and settled on echo oil, @ around 45:1. Got no dog in the oil wars fight, just wondering why the cycle oil over the actual chainsaw oil, and also, have any of ya'all uber enthusiasts and builders ever emailed or called any of the big saw companies and asked them directly what is up with their oil and why it isn't acceptable, why you don't get the same performance? Is it just some EPA crap that somehow the motorcycle manufacturers aren't subject to, but the chainsaw guys are?
> 
> Just looking for the real science (or politics), that's all.



It seems by your post that this is your first oil thread. Hold on, 'cause you're in for one hell of a ride!!


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 24, 2011)

That is kinda high for the little bottles of ultra. I bought 2 six packs of 2 gallon mix a few months back,IIRC it was about $15 bucks a six pack for the 2 gallon size premix bottles. I guess Ill just stick with it, I can get it five minutes from home, and I like it. I don't know how the other oils compare, but the ultra is really clean IMO.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

Durand the orange bottle stuff is $6 a six pack for the 1 gallon. They've drove me to using this other stuff being a 20 mile drive and expensive. I can drive 30 miles and get it a little cheaper but I might go through there 6 times a year so it's out of the way bad. I don't know why they're so high. They are the only saw dealer from west of kingsport to morristown so I guess they can charge what they want with no competition. They do price saws good there but not the bars, chains, and oils. I think bar oil is $12 a gallon. :msp_confused:


----------



## Motorsen (Nov 24, 2011)

*Zogger have something!*

Why is the chainsaw oils thinnner the competetive chainsaw oils? And yes they are. Just look at the spec sheets. And yes the chainsaw engineers know their stuff. And I am sure that they choose the oiis from a very scientific piont of wiev. Not random at all. So why are they thinner than bike oils??? Cold operation reasons? Or do the equivalent chainsaw motor not get as hot. At least not in the long run. Start stop operation?
I at least think so. Allthough that I am using a heavyer oil. Stupid maybe. But that is my convincion. So what ever that you are using as a lubricant might work the best for you. 

Motorsen


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 24, 2011)

*Stuhl 4-mix engines*

OK, let's add another wrinkle to this mess. In my landscaping business I run a lot of Stihl 4-mix handheld units (trimmers, hedge shears, pole saws and blowers). I have used and been content with Stihl Ultra HP at 50:1 with 93 octane fuel. These 4 mix engines are prone to problems with carbon deposits. Would the synthetic "cycle" oils being discussed here offer the same resistence to carbon deposits as the Ultra HP? Again, I'm happy with the ultra but it is getting very expensive considering how much of it we burn through.


----------



## wigglesworth (Nov 24, 2011)

I been running Blendzall green label, as a pint was give to me. I really like it. It's a castor oil, so some of y'all won't like it  Sure is keepin things nice and oily, and no funky deposits to speak of. I'm not sure which Klotz I tried last, but it left some funky deposits, almost like hard plastic.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I haven't really noticed any carbon deposits with the original techniplate. I usually run 43.3:1 so it's not quite as much oil as the guys running 32:1.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 24, 2011)

Running Klotz left some funky deposits in my engines as well. I went back to HOP oil in the Poulan Synthetic bottle. I've had no problems with it.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

Randy do you get the poulan oil at walmart?


----------



## cowroy (Nov 24, 2011)

I read somewhere on here a fella said that Castrol is who made the oil for Stihl and I was thinking of trying there two stroke oil. Does anyone know if this is true cause it plainly states on the bottle that it's made for lawn and garden equipment along with dirt bikes and injected bikes. I just wasn't sure if that meant for two stroke push mowers like my old lawnboy, or chainsaws too. Anyone know? 

That said, I normally don't even look at oil threads from other forum experience, but this one seems mild and civil at the moment.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

Yeah this one has gone pretty good. I learned klotz makes a new kind of mix also. I would have not known about the lite techniplate if it weren't for Eric. It was in the rc section.


----------



## rms61moparman (Nov 24, 2011)

I've used the Klotz Super Techniplate and the R-50 at 36:1.

Like them both but will stick with the R-50 as the Super Techniplate kinda gives me a headache in the applications where front exhaust saws throw it straight into my face.


Mike


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 24, 2011)

It's kind of like Scag mowers and Smuckers jam.


With a name like that you better have a good product.

No offence to anyone with the surname Klotz., It's just a good old German name, kinda like Stihl.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I like the smell of the original techniplate. I've run it from 32:1 to 50:1.


----------



## cowroy (Nov 24, 2011)

Here is what I was talkin about and I know they can say and put anything on paper, but it seems like a pretty extreme test.
Castrol Power RS TTS — Get the Best Performance from Your Bike

Castrol Power RS TTS 2T is an advanced, synthetic 2–stroke engine oil. Its Power Protection Formula provides protection against thermal and mechanical breakdown, allowing your engine to produce maximum power without compromising protection. Suitable for Pre Mix or Injector use. 

View attachment 208502








Features:

* Fully synthetic 2–stroke motorcycle engine oil
* Creates a tough, heat reactive layer of protection
* Designed for both oil injection and premix lubrication up to a fuel/oil ratio of 50:1
* Exceeds API TC, JASO FD, and ISO L EGD

Benefits:

* Extreme protection even at maximum RPM
* Protection against ring sticking and engine seizure
* Protection against thermal and mechanical breakdown
* Engine cleanliness and virtually smokeless exhaust

Application:

* Castrol Power RS TTS is suitable for all types of 2–stroke Japanese or European motorcycle engines running on race, leaded or unleaded gasoline. Designed for both oil injection and premix application, Castrol Power RS TTS has proven to mix readily with unleaded gasoline and remain stable over long periods of time.


----------



## mweba (Nov 24, 2011)

On my seventh quart of Royal Purple with out issue. Been thinking about trying Klotz but I get a great price on this stuff.
Royal Purple 2-Cycle Racing Oil


----------



## rms61moparman (Nov 24, 2011)

cowroy said:


> Here is what I was talkin about and I know they can say and put anything on paper, but it seems like a pretty extreme test.
> Castrol Power RS TTS — Get the Best Performance from Your Bike
> 
> Castrol Power RS TTS 2T is an advanced, synthetic 2–stroke engine oil. Its Power Protection Formula provides protection against thermal and mechanical breakdown, allowing your engine to produce maximum power without compromising protection. Suitable for Pre Mix or Injector use.
> ...



I never put ANY stock in these types of tests when they won't list who the other "competetors" in the test are.
They COULD have been WD-40, 3in1 oil and diesel fuel.


Mike


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 24, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> Randy do you get the poulan oil at walmart?



Yes I do. I get both styles, dino oil and synthetic. I run the dino oil for a tank or two at break in.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I might have to give it a try also then. I don't think I'll go tomorrow to walmart to look for it but I might on sunday when I go get groceries.


----------



## paccity (Nov 24, 2011)

two oil threads going and no gary?:msp_confused:


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 24, 2011)

This thread is getting me to thinking about trying some other oils. I do like the R50 techniplate I'm using now but like I said before, it seems to leave a little carbon. Still the best I've used so far though. 45:1

I might try the Super techniplate or the lite.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I've got 12oz of original left if you want to try some of it. I'm going to hit a couple places up tomorrow and see what is available here at the bike shop.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 24, 2011)

Anthony_Va. said:


> This thread is getting me to thinking about trying some other oils. I do like the R50 techniplate I'm using now but like I said before, it seems to leave a little carbon. Still the best I've used so far though. 45:1
> 
> I might try the Super techniplate or the lite.



I used the Techniplate for a while. It left plastic like deposits on the piston. I think the saw engine just doesn't run hot enough to burn the oil away completely. The film of oil was great in the bottom though.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 24, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> I used the Techniplate for a while. It left plastic like deposits on the piston. I think the saw engine just doesn't run hot enough to burn the oil away completely. The film of oil was great in the bottom though.



It does seem like 550° flash may not burn up good in a saw. I havent looked into my cylinder in awhile but I've ran maybe 50-75 tanks of the stuff in my xpw and 25 or more in my 660. Maybe I need to look inside.

Mike, is the R50 techniplate I'm using now not the original? J/W, because I was thinking it was. I never was real sure though since theres so many different ones.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 24, 2011)

I didn't pull the 660 down before I sold it but it had about 5 gallons with klotz ran through it and I didn't see any more build up on the top of the piston than any of the saws ran with ultra. I did run all but 1 gallon at 43:1.

The original is different from the R50 and super techniplate.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 24, 2011)

Nice to see this thread not goin south yet so I'll join in.

I've been usin Lucas semi synthietic for 4 years now @ 40:1. I buy it by the case To keep on the shelf for customers now. List price is 7.99/qt. Low smoke & very ll deposites. The only drawback for me with it is that it doesn't have allot of dye in it so it's hard to tall if the fuel is mixed. 
I can also git Maxima, Klots, & a few other brands through my ATV parts distributors.
Been thinkin of tryin something different. Just aint made up my mind on what.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> The closest bike shop doesn't stock klotz but will order it. I can probably buy it straight from klotz cheaper than the 9.5% tax on it at home. They have a lot of belray and spectro and had maxima 927 in stock.



Belray H1R is as good as it gets and maxima 927 is pretty good as well. However to this day no other oil has produced less wear (for me) than Klotz R50. Yes it can leave some deposits on the piston crown, but knowing what I know, so what. The rings stay completely clean, the ports stay completely clean, and everything stays coated with oil, and I could see no real wear. With that said, all ester syn oils should behave this way. Maxima K2 does seem to burn a little cleaner than R 50, but I like it mostly because it doesn't have much smell and produces less smoke. The smell of Klotz can get to you. Take into consideration most of these race oils are overkill in saws, ported or not.

Oils like Klotz original techniplate and super techniplate, are really not suitable for use in anything but race applications. Racers use them mostly because they mix with nitro and alcohol, but that's really the only reason to use them IMHO.

Here is a list of the oils that I wouldn't think twice about running in a normal saw. I have personally ran all of them.

Belray H1R
Sikkolene Pro 2 SX
Klotz R50
Motul 800 off road
Maxima K2 
Stihl Ultra


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 25, 2011)

I actually burn more Bailey's WoodlandPro Synthetic than anything else anymore. After seeing it used in a stock 441 mill saw, I was sold on it. That saw still had it's limiter caps, had signs of being very hot, but not once bit of scuffing. I'm hoping Baileys has free shipping again this year. I'll be ordering another case of it if so.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 25, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> I might have to give it a try also then. I don't think I'll go tomorrow to walmart to look for it but I might on sunday when I go get groceries.





Hey yeah,,, you couldnt drag me in that place tomorrow with me in my Dodge 3500 CTD in 4WD Lo Lock!!!!!!



blsnelling said:


> I actually burn more Bailey's WoodlandPro Synthetic than anything else anymore. After seeing it used in a stock 441 mill saw, I was sold on it. That saw still had it's limiter caps, had signs of being very hot, but not once bit of scuffing. I'm hoping Baileys has free shipping again this year. I'll be ordering another case of it if so.



I have said this before,,, I really believe that any quality synthetic oil will work fine,,, it just lubes so well,,, every saw of mine that I have run it in and have torn down for either more adjustments/tuning and just basic inspection are nice and lubed up,,, I do admit most are mixed @ 40:1 or 32:1, I find they all have been well lubed on all of the critical Rotating assembly parts,, never an oil related failure,, usually a stuck piston on a drag boat motor resulting from being too lean or a bore a little tight, or the squish band to tight as well,,, but I dont tune it,,, the driver/owner does!!!

JMHO,,, a little carbon on the piston crown doesnt hurt a thing,,, escessive carbon is a horse of a different color


----------



## ChrisAdam45 (Nov 25, 2011)

Slightly OT but which Klotz has "the smell"? 

My dad had a Hodaka dirt bike eons ago (probably late 1960s) and he says that he had problems with it siezing until he started running Klotz. Not only did it not sieze any more but it had more power and had a neat "exotic"/"racy" smell. He says he's pretty sure it was full synthetic. So I bought a gallon of Klotz Techniplate (the full synthetic, not the super tech) and it doesn't seem to make much smell at all. My dad was in town a couple weeks ago and we ran saws for a few hours with my Klotz mix and he said it didn't smell anything like what he remembered. 

Can you still get the "old" Klotz that makes the cool smell?


----------



## Little Al (Nov 25, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> That's a good looking oil on paper. Never heard of it before over here so it may not be available.



ELF oil co is I understand mostly French state owned like Total. Both companys market 2 temps oil as it is called over here although they market oil more suitable for liquid cooled oil inject motors as most of the bikes/scooters are liq cooledI have tried Elf oil [nothing wrong with it] but I prefer IPONE full syn [ can be obtained here plain or fraise/strawberry smell] I find it is cheaper & runs cleaner than Elf Only my opinion though


----------



## benp (Nov 25, 2011)

ChrisAdam45 said:


> Slightly OT but which Klotz has "the smell"?
> 
> My dad had a Hodaka dirt bike eons ago (probably late 1960s) and he says that he had problems with it siezing until he started running Klotz. Not only did it not sieze any more but it had more power and had a neat "exotic"/"racy" smell. He says he's pretty sure it was full synthetic. So I bought a gallon of Klotz Techniplate (the full synthetic, not the super tech) and it doesn't seem to make much smell at all. My dad was in town a couple weeks ago and we ran saws for a few hours with my Klotz mix and he said it didn't smell anything like what he remembered.
> 
> Can you still get the "old" Klotz that makes the cool smell?



The Snowmobile Techniplate. Also their Octane Boost has that smell also.



Little Al said:


> ELF oil co is I understand mostly French state owned like Total. Both companys market 2 temps oil as it is called over here although they market oil more suitable for liquid cooled oil inject motors as most of the bikes/scooters are liq cooledI have tried Elf oil [nothing wrong with it] but I prefer IPONE full syn [ can be obtained here plain or fraise/strawberry smell] I find it is cheaper & runs cleaner than Elf Only my opinion though



I really like the Ipone smell.


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 25, 2011)

ChrisAdam45 said:


> Slightly OT but which Klotz has "the smell"?
> 
> My dad had a Hodaka dirt bike eons ago (probably late 1960s) and he says that he had problems with it siezing until he started running Klotz. Not only did it not sieze any more but it had more power and had a neat "exotic"/"racy" smell. He says he's pretty sure it was full synthetic. So I bought a gallon of Klotz Techniplate (the full synthetic, not the super tech) and it doesn't seem to make much smell at all. My dad was in town a couple weeks ago and we ran saws for a few hours with my Klotz mix and he said it didn't smell anything like what he remembered.
> 
> Can you still get the "old" Klotz that makes the cool smell?



The SuperTecniplate is 20% bean oil. It has that famous Racey smell.
And I remember Hodakas too!


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 25, 2011)

Ipone is another oil I've wanted to try. I just don't know where to pick any up from.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

Seems like the Klotz Light would be the "ticket" due to the lower flash point? No deposits on the piston plus the overall protection of Klotz?


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 25, 2011)

I kinda like that "wet" look, when I tear one down. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Better than the dry "death vally" stuff I've seen.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 25, 2011)

I looked to see what brands I had available.
I can git
Klots super techniplate
Klotz snowmobile
Maxima K2
Belray H1R
Ipone
Lucas
Spectro
To list most of them. These are through my atv parts dist. I think I want to try the Ipone. Sposed to have strawberry smell.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

What about the Honda HP2? I wander what the flash point is?


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 25, 2011)

Here's another oil I ran 5 gallons of mix with. 

Motul 2T 710

RECOMMENDATIONS Mixing ratio: from 2% to 4% (from 50:1 to 25:1) according to manufacturers' requirements. Mixing ratio: from 2% to 4% (from 50:1 to 25:1) According To Manufacturers' requirements. Adjust according to your own use. 

PROPERTIES Colour Colour Visual Visual Green. Green.
Density at 20°C (68°F) Density at 20 ° C (68 ° F) 
ASTM D1298 ASTM D1298 0.862 0862 Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) Viscosity at 100 ° C (212 ° F)
ASTM D445 ASTM D445 8.9 mm²/s 8.9 mm ² / s Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) Viscosity at 40 ° C (104 ° F) 
ASTM D445 ASTM D445 46.4 mm²/s 46.4 mm ² / s Viscosity index Viscosity index ASTM D2270 ASTM D2270 175 175 
Flash point Flash point ASTM D92 ASTM D92 88°C / 190°F 88 ° C / 190 ° F 
TBN TBN ASTM D 2896 ASTM D 2896 2.15 mg KOH/g 2.15 mg KOH / g


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 25, 2011)

Here's the motul 2T 800 Sorry for the crappy way it's showing up. It had to be translated. 

PROPERTIES Red coloured. Red colored.
Density at 20°C (68°F) Density at 20 ° C (68 ° F)
ASTM D1298 ASTM D1298 0.911 0911 Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) Viscosity at 40 ° C (104 ° F)
ASTM D445 ASTM D445 120.2 mm²/s 120.2 mm ² / s 
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) Viscosity at 100 ° C (212 ° F) 
ASTM D445 ASTM D445 15.5 mm²/s 15.5 mm ² / s 
Viscosity index Viscosity index ASTM D2270 ASTM D2270 135 135
Flash point Flash point ASTM D92 ASTM D92 252°C / 485°F 252 ° C / 485 ° F


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> Here's another oil I ran 5 gallons of mix with.
> 
> Motul 2T 710
> 
> ...



Seems the 710 would be more desireable due to the lower flashpoint?


----------



## dk27 (Nov 25, 2011)

*I can probably buy it straight from klotz cheaper*

May not want to do it for the r-50,but if you place case orders thru the factory .You can get race contract pricing thru one of the tech reps.Still would have to pay for shipping.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 25, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> What about the Honda HP2? I wander what the flash point is?



Don't focus just on the flash point, the whole formula of the oil works together, flash point is just one part of that formula.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> Don't focus just on the flash point, the whole formula of the oil works together, flash point is just one part of that formula.



Right. That makes sense. Sounds like the Klotz Light might be good.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 25, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> Right. That makes sense. Sounds like the Klotz Light might be good.



I'm sure it's fine, but I'll stick with the heavy racing oils.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm sure it's fine, but I'll stick with the heavy racing oils.



Then I will stick with R-50 like you Andy.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 25, 2011)

Well I've been running K2 for about a year now and so far so good. I'm not 100% sure if I'll keep running it when I'm done with this jug. H1R is tempting, but it's one of the more expensive oils. I ran Silkolene pro 2 for about two years and really liked that as well, they're all top of the line esters, and honestly they all work about the same.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> Well I've been running K2 for about a year now and so far so good. I'm not 100% sure if I'll keep running it when I'm done with this jug. H1R is tempting, but it's one of the more expensive oils. I ran Silkolene pro 2 for about two years and really liked that as well, they're all top of the line esters, and honestly they all work about the same.



Cool. H1R as in Belray I assume. I'm sorry Andy, I had also assumed you had switched back to R-50. Hummmm.......Maxima K2 or Belray H1R.....


----------



## ChrisAdam45 (Nov 25, 2011)

benp said:


> The Snowmobile Techniplate. Also their Octane Boost has that smell also.



Yeah, the snowmobile techniplate is exactly what I have. The guy on the Klotz 800 number says the only difference between the Snowmobile Techniplate and the Motorcycle Techniplate is the decal on the jug.

Maybe I'm not getting "the smell" because it's not actually burning because the flash point is too high?

I think next time I'll try the Super Techniplate with the 20% bean oil, but this gallon is going to last me a while...




sachsmo said:


> The SuperTecniplate is 20% bean oil. It has that famous Racey smell.
> And I remember Hodakas too!



I think my dad had a 100, maybe a Super Rat? One of the other guys at the dirt pit had a 125 Combat Wombat and apparently it was the one to beat.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

I believe I will use this Bel-Ray H1R.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 25, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> Don't focus just on the flash point, the whole formula of the oil works together, flash point is just one part of that formula.



Andy, I always like to ask ya oil related questions. just one more. So, deposits left upon the piston due to a high flash point is really no concern right? Thats the only reason i was looking into the Klotz Light and the Honda HP2 was due to lower flash points. Just being picky really. I was thinking that the Klotz Light would be good because with the lower flash point you wouldnt get any biuld up on the piston plus the protection of Klotz. Or would the Klotz Light give the same protection as the R-50 or K2 per say. Thanks Andy


----------



## sachsmo (Nov 25, 2011)

I remember the Dirt squirts, Super rats and the little yellow mini bikes.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 25, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> Andy, I always like to ask ya oil related questions. just one more. So, deposits left upon the piston due to a high flash point is really no concern right? Thats the only reason i was looking into the Klotz Light and the Honda HP2 was due to lower flash points. Just being picky really. I was thinking that the Klotz Light would be good because with the lower flash point you wouldnt get any biuld up on the piston plus the protection of Klotz. Or would the Klotz Light give the same protection as the R-50 or K2 per say. Thanks Andy



A thin layer of carbon on the piston crown is inevitable. A crust of carbon can cause serous issues, from hot spots, to carbon scoring. I can't seem to find any info on Klotz Lite other than the description on the Klotz site. From what it says, it's simply Original Techniplate that's been thinned with solvents, I'd just run the Original Techniplate, it burns really clean anyway. The only downside to Original Techniplate is the fact it doesn't store well, and has been known to cause bottom end corrosion issues, the formula is highly hygroscopic. Original Techniplate is a unique formula that uses plant based oils (mostly banana oils) and is one reason it smells different. At the time it was the best oil going, until esters and other synthetic oils became more and more available in the late 60's and early 70's. 

Would Klotz Lite offer as much protection in extreme conditions as R50 or K2? Likely not, but where that extreme line is, I simply don't know. Feel free to try theses oils out for a year or so, if everything looks nice keep running it. Fresh fuel a properly tuned and running saw is more important anyway.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 25, 2011)

ChrisAdam45 said:


> Yeah, the snowmobile techniplate is exactly what I have. The guy on the Klotz 800 number says the only difference between the Snowmobile Techniplate and the Motorcycle Techniplate is the decal on the jug.
> 
> Maybe I'm not getting "the smell" because it's not actually burning because the flash point is too high?
> 
> ...



The "racy smell" is castor oil being burnt. Castor bean oil has been used as a high performance lubricant for more than 100 years. One of the earlier posts mentioned a headache after using premix with castor oil in it. Some will remember that another product of the Castor plant is the poison Ricin. It was not uncommon for pilots in WW1 to vomit after exposure to the castor oil expelled by the total loss oiling systems used in that era. A little research will show that castor oil has unique properties not matched by other lubes. When the chips are down for a high perf two-stroke the safe bet is an oil that includes at least some castor.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 26, 2011)

Tzed250 said:


> The "racy smell" is castor oil being burnt. Castor bean oil has been used as a high performance lubricant for more than 100 years. One of the earlier posts mentioned a headache after using premix with castor oil in it. Some will remember that another product of the Castor plant is the poison Ricin. It was not uncommon for pilots in WW1 to vomit after exposure to the castor oil expelled by the total loss oiling systems used in that era. A little research will show that castor oil has unique properties not matched by other lubes. When the chips are down for a high perf two-stroke the safe bet is an oil that includes at least some castor.



100% correct, the WW1 pilots had some bad effects from castor oil, including permanent nerve damage. The unique property of caster oil is the fact it polymerizes in extreme heat, and maintains a lubricating layer. However when this layer cools it sticks to the metal parts creating a nasty gummy layer of varnish, this creates an all new problem. Caster oil has it's uses, but that list is small, esters can do pretty much anything caster oils can, plus a few things caster can't, and without any of the other issues.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 26, 2011)

I think I may try that K2 next. I'm about out of my R50. 

It's been some real good oil though. I just like to try different things. 

I still want to check inside my cylinders to see if there's any real buildup. I'll post results tomorrow.


----------



## young (Nov 26, 2011)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I think I may try that [email protected] next. I'm about out of my R50.
> 
> It's been some real good oil though. I just like to try different things.
> 
> I still want to check inside my cylinders to see if there's any real buildup. I'll post results tomorrow.



do it now. t27 and a flat head. ten mins tops hahaha.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 26, 2011)

young said:


> do it now. t27 and a flat head. ten mins tops hahaha.



Lol. Shew man, I don't know if I want to get into it tonight. :msp_biggrin:

2AM, 30° outside and the saws are in the truck. I'm in my PJ's. Nah, I think tomorrow. Plus, gotta get up at 5:30 to do some deer hunting. 

But, if you think about it man, remind me when I'm on tomorrow evening in case I forget.


----------



## young (Nov 26, 2011)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Lol. Shew man, I don't know if I want to get into it tonight. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> 2AM, 30° outside and the saws are in the truck. I'm in my PJ's. Nah, I think tomorrow. Plus, gotta get up at 5:30 to do some deer hunting.
> 
> But, if you think about it man, remind me when I'm on tomorrow evening in case I forget.



deal hahaha


----------



## Little Al (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumpys Customs said:


> I looked to see what brands I had available.
> I can git
> Klots super techniplate
> Klotz snowmobile
> ...



If you are giving IPONE a try & can obtain it on your side of the pond may I suggest SAMORAI 100% syn & can be obtained [here any way] either plain or strawberry scented


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> A thin layer of carbon on the piston crown is inevitable. A crust of carbon can cause serous issues, from hot spots, to carbon scoring. I can't seem to find any info on Klotz Lite other than the description on the Klotz site. From what it says, it's simply Original Techniplate that's been thinned with solvents, I'd just run the Original Techniplate, it burns really clean anyway. The only downside to Original Techniplate is the fact it doesn't store well, and has been known to cause bottom end corrosion issues, the formula is highly hygroscopic. Original Techniplate is a unique formula that uses plant based oils (mostly banana oils) and is one reason it smells different. At the time it was the best oil going, until esters and other synthetic oils became more and more available in the late 60's and early 70's.
> 
> Would Klotz Lite offer as much protection in extreme conditions as R50 or K2? Likely not, but where that extreme line is, I simply don't know. Feel free to try theses oils out for a year or so, if everything looks nice keep running it. Fresh fuel a properly tuned and running saw is more important anyway.



Thanks for the info Andy. I may very well try this Bel-Ray H1R.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 26, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> 100% correct, the WW1 pilots had some bad effects from castor oil, including permanent nerve damage. The unique property of caster oil is the fact it polymerizes in extreme heat, and maintains a lubricating layer. However when this layer cools it sticks to the metal parts creating a nasty gummy layer of varnish, this creates an all new problem. Caster oil has it's uses, but that *list is small*, esters can do pretty much anything caster oils can, plus a few things caster can't, and without any of the other issues.



Almost, but not quite :msp_biggrin:. Castor is still in widespread use by kart racers, model engine groups, roadracers, MX, etc. When you say esters wil do pretty much anything that castor will do that is correct. The one thing they wont do is, as you mentioned, grow polymer chains in extreme heat. Esters break down in this environment, like most any other lubricant. This _nasty gummy layer of varnish_ you talk about I have not seen in decades. The de-gummed racing castor available now is quite clean. I ran my TZ250 for an entire season on castor based lube. It was pulled down after every race weekend and there were never any deposits that couldn't wiped off with a rag. To show the amount of trust I had in castor oil, I was using it to protect an engine that had two piston/cylinder sets that cost $600 each to replace. The crank set was $1800 by itself. The only thing I had to do was replace the pistons at the end of their scheduled life. I also trusted the oil to keep my hind end safe. A top end siezure while headed into the backstraight dip at Road Atlanta at 160MPH is a rather undesirable thing. 

I'm not about to tell anybody what oil to run. But I can share my own personal results with oils that have worked for me. Ever since Stihl introduced the Ultra synthetic my *** has been run run with a pre-mix of Ultra at the recommended ratio, with one ounce per gallon of Klotz Super Techniplate added. My top ends have stayed clean as a whistle.


----------



## one.man.band (Nov 26, 2011)

for sachsmo:

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/chainsaw/205950d1320615841-sanford-aunt-esther-jpg


----------



## ECsaws (Nov 26, 2011)

Tzed250 said:


> I'm not about to tell anybody what oil to run. But I can share my own personal results with oils that have worked for me. Ever since Stihl introduced the Ultra synthetic my *** has been run run with a pre-mix of Ultra at the recommended ratio, with one ounce per gallon of Klotz Super Techniplate added. My top ends have stayed clean as a whistle.



I agree 100% ...run what ever oil you feel comfy running. One thing "I" always consider, will this oil I'm pouring in this gas can mix with alcohol (ethanol)? cuz ya neaver know whats in that gas unless your running something other than pump gas...


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 26, 2011)

ECsaws said:


> I agree 100% ...run what ever oil you feel comfy running. One thing "I" always consider, will this oil I'm pouring in this gas can mix with alcohol (ethanol)? cuz ya neaver know whats in that gas unless your running something other than pump gas...



Isn't that the truth. Every time you stop at a gas station it's like you're buying a pig in a poke.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

How do you guys think Stihl ultra compares to say the Maxima K2, or Belray H1R? 

Ive just always run ultra cause its good oil and easy to get, and never really give it much thought if there was anything better. The ultra does seem to do a good job, and keeps everything pretty clean even at 37:1. ( 2 gallon mix in 1.5 gallon gas...easy to remember lol) There are 2 good bike stores in town, might go see what else is available to me in a bit.


----------



## JoeB (Nov 26, 2011)

Any body run amsoil dominator ? I have run it and have had no problems . My step daughter races 2 stroke 4 wheelers and that is what I run in her quads . I am going to buy a new saw soon an I'm wondering if amsoil at 50:1 will be fine . I don't want to have to keep 2 different oils around but i will if I need to . I also keep race gas that is 112 octane around . Will that hurt a saw if I run a little in it ? Don't plan on that all the time but I don't like the race gas getting to old .
Thanks


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 26, 2011)

komatsuvarna said:


> How do you guys think Stihl ultra compares to say the Maxima K2, or Belray H1R?



I really like the Stihl Ultra HP too but this stuff is getting ultra expensive! I'm seriously considering making the switch to Amsoil Saber. I use A LOT of mixed fuel over the course of a season and from the quick math I did it looks like I could save upwards of $500 annually.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> I really like the Stihl Ultra HP too but this stuff is getting ultra expensive! I'm seriously considering making the switch to Amsoil Saber. I use A LOT of mixed fuel over the course of a season and from the quick math I did it looks like I could save upwards of $500 annually.



$$500!!, Id probably do it, thats alot of extra Beer money lol.

Really, Ive never herd of nothing bad with the Saber, and several swear by it.:smile2:


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 26, 2011)

komatsuvarna said:


> How do you guys think Stihl ultra compares to say the Maxima K2, or Belray H1R?
> 
> Ive just always run ultra cause its good oil and easy to get,



Stihl did their home work on the Ultra,,, it works extremely well in their 4 mix moto application due to the excellent luricity, clean burn, with less carbon,,, it also mixes and stays mixed better in the ethanol laced fuels that are common today,, I say it is right there with the others u mention 



komatsuvarna said:


> $$500!!, Id probably do it, thats alot of extra Beer money lol.
> 
> Really, Ive never herd of nothing bad with the Saber, and several swear by it.:smile2:



I know Parrisw (AKA Will) from BC swears buy it the Amsoil,, I've been using the Ultra for the last few years, cause I got a gallon cheap,,, but its almost gone, JMHO the lubricity and clean burn is very desirable in any 2smoke application,,



Tzed250 said:


> I'm not about to tell anybody what oil to run. But I can share my own personal results with oils that have worked for me. Ever since Stihl introduced the Ultra synthetic my *** has been run run with a pre-mix of Ultra at the recommended ratio, with one ounce per gallon of Klotz Super Techniplate added. My top ends have stayed clean as a whistle.


 That is an excellent Idea,,, and good on ya for a good post,,, somebody rep him!!! I can't :bang:


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

Yeah the good stihl shop isn't that convenient to me and the one I drive by is way high on everything. A 24" chain is $36 at it. The ultra is almost $2 a gallon to mix. I figured up the klotz is right at a $1 a gallon. I can't remember the price of motul or belray. I just want to pick up something at the bike shop since the stihl dealer is so high and I hate making a 50 mile round trip to get oil at the shop with decent prices.


----------



## mowoodchopper (Nov 26, 2011)

Tzed250 said:


> There can be only one....
> 
> 
> Super Techniplate @ 32:1
> ...




Agree 100%, Thats all I have used for about 3 yrs now. Those who are worried about deposits should be running 4 strokes.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

Went to 2 bike shops, yamahalube at one, hondalube at the other. Looks like I might just order some K2 and/or H1R.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

The bike shops down here had R50, honda hp2, and maxima 927 on the shelf. The one at home has a pile of stuff just not klotz.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 26, 2011)

Here's some prices of a few of the oils that I can git.

Ipone ATV 2000- $12.95/liter
Ipone Agricology $12.95/liter
Ipone Snow Racing $11.95/liter

Klotz snowmobile TC-W3 $12.95/qt
Klotz super tschniplate $12.95/qt

Castrol 2T Snow $5.79/liter 

Maxima K2 $18.99/liter
Maxima Castor 927 $18.99/liter
Maxima Super M $14.49/liter

Bel Ray H1-R $21.30/liter

These prices are the suggested list prices right out of my catalog. Shipping is not included. 
There are more products available, but these are the ones most mentioned in this thread. If anybody is interested send me a pm or email.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm gonna go with the Bel-Ray H1R.
I just ordered a liter of the Bel-Ray H1R for 21.30 just like stumpy had posted.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 26, 2011)

The Honda HP2 should not be dismissed. A super high quality oil with a proven record.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

One of the guys at the bike shop here told me to use the hp2 in anything with a nikasil bore. He said he would recommend the r50 for steel cylinder saws like the poulan or macs after we got to talking.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> One of the guys at the bike shop here told me to use the hp2 in anything with a nikasil bore. He said he would recommend the r50 for steel cylinder saws like the poulan or macs after we got to talking.



Yup, I was askin about the HP2 earlier. Are you gonna go with the Bel Ray or Honda?


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 26, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> I'm gonna go with the Bel-Ray H1R.
> I just ordered a liter of the Bel-Ray H1R for 21.30 just like stumpy had posted.



Guess I should lower the prices so's I can git some orders.:msp_ohmy:


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumpys Customs said:


> Guess I should lower the prices so's I can git some orders.:msp_ohmy:



Well, that was with NC tax as well. Before it was 18 something. I believe it came out to 21.35. That was thru MR Motorcycle in Asheville,NC


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumpys Customs said:


> Guess I should lower the prices so's I can git some orders.:msp_ohmy:



Ill take some when ya figure out about the piston, maybe ship it both together.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumpy why don't you deliver it to us? We'll order a gallon of it up. I can promise a pile of logs to cut on and some good food.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

Just wondering, beyond using a good synthetic, does it really make a nickels worth of difference in the overall life of a saw's PC which of these oils that you use? 

I mean, it seems more time is spent "wondering" which oil is the best, when it isn't even possible that 97% of the people in these threads to even "wear out" a typical PC on most any brand of saw.

Just wondering,

Sam


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> Just wondering, beyond using a good synthetic, does it really make a nickels worth of difference in the overall life of a saw's PC which of these oils that you use?
> 
> I mean, it seems more time is spent "wondering" which oil is the best, when it isn't even possible that 97% of the people in these threads to even "wear out" a typical PC on most any brand of saw.
> 
> ...



Thats right Sam. Were not all Super Stud Logger like yourself. Sam, you are the man.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

Sam if you spent as much time as I do in a motel room with no one else around you'd come up with threads like this too. atleast this thread has stayed civil and no one has argued a lot like in the past. I'm sure I could run itasca oil in the saws and not wear them out any faster. I actually ran itasca in the first 044 and ported 460 I had about 7 years ago.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> Thats right Sam. Were not all Super Stud Logger like yourself. Sam, you are the man.



???? Do you have an inferiority complex or something, why are you always whining about me being a logger?

It was a simple question. I've run Supertech Outboard 2 Stroke oil, which by many accounts should ruin a saw in about 5 tanks, LOL, and now I use Amsoil Saber, because I get it for cheap, when I buy synthetic for my trucks and skidders, and it has been run at 80:1 and now 50:1, yet the PC look great when inspected. So its hard for me to comprehend how reading about 27 different oils is going to make or break a PC to any measureable degree, when most saws in this forum aren't used that much to begin with and the old, conventional oils of 20 years ago, has been good enough to have saws still running on it today.

Its a free world, but I just think its silly to put all this wonderment into 2 stroke oil, beyond a reasonable quality, synthetic and what color it comes in, LOL.


Sam


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> Sam if you spent as much time as I do in a motel room with no one else around you'd come up with threads like this too. atleast this thread has stayed civil and no one has argued a lot like in the past. I'm sure I could run itasca oil in the saws and not wear them out any faster. I actually ran itasca in the first 044 and ported 460 I had about 7 years ago.



LOL, thats funny.

I'm in Framingham, MA right now in a hotel room. I flew up here to help Karen finish her work and drive her back home. I'm bored out of my mind. Its raining too much to do anything at that bottom timber, and I researching getting some flotation tires when I get home early next week.

Sam


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> ???? Do you have an inferiority complex or something, why are you always whining about me being a logger?
> 
> It was a simple question. I've run Supertech Outboard 2 Stroke oil, which by many accounts should ruin a saw in about 5 tanks, LOL, and now I use Amsoil Saber, because I get it for cheap, when I buy synthetic for my trucks and skidders, and it has been run at 80:1 and now 50:1, yet the PC look great when inspected. So its hard for me to comprehend how reading about 27 different oils is going to make or break a PC to any measureable degree, when most saws in this forum aren't used that much to begin with and the old, conventional oils of 20 years ago, has been good enough to have saws still running on it today.
> 
> ...




Show me 1 time I have EVER whined to you Sam. Ive NEVER even mentioned you being a logger until now......But whatever Sam, your right.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

I probably coundnt wear out a pro saw in 2 lifetimes no more wood than i cut. I feel alittle better running the best oil in ported saws, especially the ones bumping 15K. 

Main i reason i want to switch is the smell of ultra. Sounds dumb, but the ultra kills my head in just a little bit. In the woods where no air is moving, less than that.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> Show me 1 time I have EVER whined to you Sam. Ive NEVER even mentioned you being a logger until now......But whatever Sam, your right.



Dude, your post above sounds like a little playground girl, what with all the STUD LOGGER crap and the bow downs", just letting you know that you don't really have to feel inferior to me, cause you sound like you do have some sort of inferior complex or something. 

I was just wondering if there is any difference in the long run, as I have used total crap oil and now I use some really good oil and the end result is no problems with either after years of use. I get the quality oil for a similar price as the cheap oil so its a no brainer for me, but I was just wondering if the efforts of others with regards to the literally splitting of hairs as to the quality of "higher" quality oil makes a nickels worth of difference.

You gots you a modded 660 now, so you can be a big stud, right?

It will be okay, go hold your 660 for a little while, and let the "man-ness" seep into you through osmosis.

Sam


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> Dude, your post above sounds like a little playground girl, what with all the STUD LOGGER crap and the bow downs", just letting you know that you don't really have to feel inferior to me, cause you sound like you do have some sort of inferior complex or something.
> 
> I was just wondering if there is any difference in the long run, as I have used total crap oil and now I use some really good oil and the end result is no problems with either after years of use. I get the quality oil for a similar price as the cheap oil so its a no brainer for me, but I was just wondering if the efforts of others with regards to the literally splitting of hairs as to the quality of "higher" quality oil makes a nickels worth of difference.
> 
> ...



10-4 Sam.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> Just wondering, beyond using a good synthetic, does it really make a nickels worth of difference in the overall life of a saw's PC which of these oils that you use?
> 
> I mean, it seems more time is spent "wondering" which oil is the best, when it isn't even possible that 97% of the people in these threads to even "wear out" a typical PC on most any brand of saw.
> 
> ...




I would hypothesize that wondering about people wondering could be expressed as wondering raised to the second power. I believe that it could then be classified as a waste of time an order of magnitude greater than the root wondering. 

More study will be needed to strengthen the theory. Maybe I should get a grant writer on the job. That's it!!!!! BRB.....


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 26, 2011)

Tzed250 said:


> Almost, but not quite :msp_biggrin:. Castor is still in widespread use by kart racers, model engine groups, roadracers, MX, etc. When you say esters wil do pretty much anything that castor will do that is correct. The one thing they wont do is, as you mentioned, grow polymer chains in extreme heat. Esters break down in this environment, like most any other lubricant. This _nasty gummy layer of varnish_ you talk about I have not seen in decades. The de-gummed racing castor available now is quite clean. I ran my TZ250 for an entire season on castor based lube. It was pulled down after every race weekend and there were never any deposits that couldn't wiped off with a rag. To show the amount of trust I had in castor oil, I was using it to protect an engine that had two piston/cylinder sets that cost $600 each to replace. The crank set was $1800 by itself. The only thing I had to do was replace the pistons at the end of their scheduled life. I also trusted the oil to keep my hind end safe. A top end siezure while headed into the backstraight dip at Road Atlanta at 160MPH is a rather undesirable thing.
> 
> I'm not about to tell anybody what oil to run. But I can share my own personal results with oils that have worked for me. Ever since Stihl introduced the Ultra synthetic my *** has been run run with a pre-mix of Ultra at the recommended ratio, with one ounce per gallon of Klotz Super Techniplate added. My top ends have stayed clean as a whistle.



That was the list I was talking about, and unfortunately the two stroke bikes are getting few and far between. I have seen a few bikes with stuck power valves running caster oil, and I didn't like what I saw with 927 or Klotz super, both run extremely dirty in my experience. There was an old school thread about 927 when big Dave was still porting a lot of saws. 927 and Klotz Super simply do not burn clean in saw, I've seen just too much evidence. Don't get me wrong you're not going to blow up an engine running caster oil, it's just that they're much better options IMHO. And lets not forget castor oil doesn't like cold temps.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 26, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> Stumpy why don't you deliver it to us? We'll order a gallon of it up. I can promise a pile of logs to cut on and some good food.



That would be a hell of a shipping bill on you guys.:hmm3grin2orange: But if you want to pay my way I'll sell you a Drum of it ( I can git it by the drum too) fer a lil over my cost.:hmm3grin2orange:
I can git most of the items listed in gallons/4 liter bottles too.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

I was *wondering* when someone would wander through and comment about the *wonderment* in this most civil of oil threads. :hmm3grin2orange:

Thanks Slamm!!!!

You super stud logger and stuff.


----------



## paccity (Nov 26, 2011)

heres one that i use now and then . not a big co. but have herd good things about it. Dumonde Tech DTP .View attachment 208667


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumpys Customs said:


> That would be a hell of a shipping bill on you guys.:hmm3grin2orange: But if you want to pay my way I'll sell you a Drum of it ( I can git it by the drum too) fer a lil over my cost.:hmm3grin2orange:
> I can git most of the items listed in gallons/4 liter bottles too.



I thought you might bring it to us just to visit the hills of east Tennessee:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Nov 26, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> I thought you might bring it to us just to visit the hills of east Tennessee:hmm3grin2orange:



Wish I could buddy. Maybee one of these days I'll be rich & famous & be able to travel around to hand deliver saws & stuff.


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumpys Customs said:


> Wish I could buddy. Maybee one of these days I'll be rich & famous & be able to travel around to hand deliver saws & stuff.



Now that would be COOL! The saw Santa! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

Tzed250 said:


> I would hypothesize that wondering about people wondering could be expressed as wondering raised to the second power. I believe that it could then be classified as a waste of time an order of magnitude greater than the root wondering.
> 
> More study will be needed to strengthen the theory. Maybe I should get a grant writer on the job. That's it!!!!! BRB.....



Excellent notion, I shall then, ponder your hypothesization of my wondering about the wonderment of other's concerning the hair splitting differences of 2 stroke oil.

A waste of time, none the less.

Let me know how that grant process goes, as if its productive in providing some cash, I would be interested in it. It seems in this liberal run government times you would have a good change of getting something out of it, as it seems just a worthy of funding as any of the other moronic things the government spends ........ wastes money on.

Sam


----------



## paccity (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> Excellent notion, I shall then, ponder your hypothesization of my wondering about the wonderment of other's concerning the hair splitting differences of 2 stroke oil.
> 
> A waste of time, none the less.
> 
> ...



when is it a waste of time to have a decent disscusion about anything. ?


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

paccity said:


> when is it a waste of time to have a decent disscusion about anything. ?



Well, never, is one answer, but another answer is when it has been beat into the ground, past the surface of the earth and is now hitting the earth's continental plates, and the devil is looking up wondering if its going to infect hell, and soon instead of using sharp prods and heat hotter than fire, the punishment will be having the fallen sit around a campfire quietly as a leading demon reads aloud the various threads and post on Arboristsite about oil.

Take your pick, of answers, I think, either one is quite valid.

Sam


----------



## one.man.band (Nov 26, 2011)

paccity said:


> when is it a waste of time to have a decent disscusion about anything. ?



one thing does come to mind......

telling your wife about the benefits of a particular 2-stroke oil.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> Well, never, is one answer, but another answer is when it has been beat into the ground, past the surface of the earth and is now hitting the earth's continental plates, and the devil is looking up wondering if its going to infect hell, and soon instead of using sharp prods and heat hotter than fire, the punishment will be having the fallen sit around a campfire quietly as a leading demon reads aloud the various threads and post on Arboristsite about oil.
> 
> Take your pick, of answers, I think, either one is quite valid.
> 
> Sam



Forgive me Sam but I've noticed a trend... You seem to show up in threads you say have zero merit. Do you not have anything better to do than troll threads that are below your impeccable standards. I've just curious why you would waste your time?


----------



## paccity (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> Well, never, is one answer, but another answer is when it has been beat into the ground, past the surface of the earth and is now hitting the earth's continental plates, and the devil is looking up wondering if its going to infect hell, and soon instead of using sharp prods and heat hotter than fire, the punishment will be having the fallen sit around a campfire quietly as a leading demon reads aloud the various threads and post on Arboristsite about oil.
> 
> Take your pick, of answers, I think, either one is quite valid.
> 
> Sam



then don't read them.:smile2:


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> Forgive me Sam but I've noticed a trend... You seem to show up in threads you say have zero merit. Do you not have anything better to do than troll threads that are below your impeccable standards. I've just curious why you would waste your time?



For the same reason they are started, I'm just bored, LOL.

I asked a legitamate question, its Macleran that got his sack in a twist. I was just wondering if people really think it makes a nickel's worth of difference. If someone else wants to get ignorant, I'm not above taking a thread to any level that the next person wants it to go. I asked a question and he wants to act like a little girl about it.

After that we're just having fun, its just an oil thread. Are you guy's really that into it?

Sam


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 26, 2011)

Well crap!! This was a fun/interesting thread while it lasted but it looks like it's past the point of no return now.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> Well crap!! This was a fun/interesting thread while it lasted but it looks like it's past the point of no return now.



Oh, not to worry, there are maybe 150-1000 other threads just like it, I mean, just exactly like it. Their a lot better when Gary gets into it, as he has his own brand of oil and it trumphs all other brands and ratios, hand down.

Lol,

Sam


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> For the same reason they are started, I'm just bored, LOL.
> 
> I asked a legitamate question, its Macleran that got his sack in a twist. I was just wondering if people really think it makes a nickel's worth of difference. If someone else wants to get ignorant, I'm not above taking a thread to any level that the next person wants it to go. I asked a question and he wants to act like a little girl about it.
> 
> ...



Way to go STUD. It was ALL MY FAULT. There's no way in heck it could be your own fault. Sam, if blaming it on me gets evryone else off your azz then fine. Cause I can see it smokin from here...LOL......


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> Way to go STUD. It was ALL MY FAULT. There's no way in heck it could be your own fault. Sam, if blaming it on me gets evryone else off your azz then fine. Cause I can see it smokin from here...LOL......



The way you talk disturbs me a little. Why are you calling me a "Stud"????

??? Are you gay too, stop looking at my azz.

How can you see it, I'm in Boston, MA area right now.

Sam


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> The way you talk disturbs me a little. Why are you calling me a "Stud"????
> 
> ??? Are you gay too, stop looking at my azz.
> 
> ...



You got it STUD. :hmm3grin2orange: Whatever you want big guy.....


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> The way you talk disturbs me a little. Why are you calling me a "Stud"????
> 
> ??? Are you gay too, stop looking at my azz.
> 
> ...



I just blew tea outta my nose Sam..............that is your damn fault. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Mastermind said:


> I just blew tea outta my nose Sam..............that is your damn fault. :hmm3grin2orange:



I think we all know where Sam stands now.......or squats.....:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## MacLaren (Nov 26, 2011)

Nah......Sam is a mans man. Sam has fell more timber, slap wore out more pistons, bedded more beautiful women, than anyone on AS X10!
I would be remiss to not tell it like it truly is. I just hope that Sam will once again grace us with his PERFECT instructional tree felling videos that have recently been made top secret or private as you tube says they are......WE/I have so much to learn from this masterpiece of a man, a true loggers logger. Sam, please forgive me.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

Why does everyone say the "felling" videos are private. I haven't changed anything about them. Do they work or not?

The only people that ever mention it are those that speak of them ...... shall we say sarcastically, like Andre and now MacLaren.

I go to them and they work, I have no, idea why if others can't see them. They are in the same account as everyone of my other videos and photos.

Maclaren, I will pray for you, as I think you need help.

Sam


----------



## paccity (Nov 26, 2011)

we all need help, sittin around on this site.


----------



## StihlyinEly (Nov 26, 2011)

Man, y'all get into your mix oil WAY more than I do. Anyone ever tell you to just shut up and cut wood?


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

StihlyinEly said:


> Man, y'all get into your mix oil WAY more than I do. Anyone ever tell you to just shut up and cut wood?



LOL, its beyond oil at this point ....... well maybe, LOL.

Sam


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

I still think the super logger comment is the funniest #### I've herd today :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:.


No offence Sam.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

komatsuvarna said:


> I still think the super logger comment is the funniest #### I've herd today :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:.
> 
> 
> No offence Sam.



No offence (or offense) taken, I'm here to be of an entertainment value only. If that is laughing at or with, it doesn't make much difference, thats the beauty of oil threads, they are semi-old news to begin with so little is lost by way of value or content if MacLaren takes it into a homosexual direction, or we make fun of my logging skills or practices, the overall value of the thread will maintain an even keel.

Sam


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

So........what ratio is best???? I mean, really? :msp_unsure:


----------



## StihlyinEly (Nov 26, 2011)

JoeB said:


> Any body run amsoil dominator ? I have run it and have had no problems . My step daughter races 2 stroke 4 wheelers and that is what I run in her quads . I am going to buy a new saw soon an I'm wondering if amsoil at 50:1 will be fine . I don't want to have to keep 2 different oils around but i will if I need to . I also keep race gas that is 112 octane around . Will that hurt a saw if I run a little in it ? Don't plan on that all the time but I don't like the race gas getting to old .
> Thanks



Dominator is injector oil, not mix oil. I run in in my snowmobile. It's not meant to be used as mix oil because it's not designed to stay mixed in suspension.

Ummmm, wait. Better check with Sam first on that. LOL!


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm just about to pull the trigger on a few cases of Amsoil Saber as my HP Ultra supply is just about gone. Does anyone have anything bad to say about this oil? It will be used waaayyy more in line trimmers, hedge shears and blowers than chainsaws.


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

I use Amsoil, seems to be good and clean burning. There are people that hate Amsoil products.

As to Dominator, I have no idea and will not research it, never heard of it ...... in fact, LOL. I use Amsoil Saber for 2 stroke oil, didn't research beyond that. I get Amsoil Saber by the case when I buy other Amsoil for skidders and trucks and ATV's.

Sam


----------



## Slamm (Nov 26, 2011)

Where's Gary???

Sam


----------



## one.man.band (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> I'm just about to pull the trigger on a few cases of Amsoil Saber as my HP Ultra supply is just about gone. Does anyone have anything bad to say about this oil? It will be used waaayyy more in line trimmers, hedge shears and blowers than chainsaws.



photos of pistons/cylinders run on a few oils mentioned in this thread.

here: The R/C Aircraft Proving Grounds - 2 Cycle Oil Test Summary


----------



## StihlyinEly (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> I'm just about to pull the trigger on a few cases of Amsoil Saber as my HP Ultra supply is just about gone. Does anyone have anything bad to say about this oil? It will be used waaayyy more in line trimmers, hedge shears and blowers than chainsaws.



I've used it on all my 2-strokes for years. Great stuff, and very clean. I buy most of my saws and other 2-strokes used, and the large majority have been run on conventional oils. I can't tell you how many times I've picked up those units and seen a lot of carbon and sludge buildup, and after 5 or 6 tanks of Amsoil mix, they are cleaner and running smoother. 

I'm sure it'd be the same with most high-end synthetics, just that for me it's been Amsoil.


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 26, 2011)

StihlyinEly said:


> I've used it on all my 2-strokes for years. Great stuff, and very clean. I buy most of my saws and other 2-strokes used, and the large majority have been run on conventional oils. I can't tell you how many times I've picked up those units and seen a lot of carbon and sludge buildup, and after 5 or 6 tanks of Amsoil mix, they are cleaner and running smoother.
> 
> I'm sure it'd be the same with most high-end synthetics, just that for me it's been Amsoil.



Thanks for the response, I appreciate that. Do you use Saber Professional mixed at 100:1 or 80:1?


----------



## StihlyinEly (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> Thanks for the response, I appreciate that. Do you use Saber Professional mixed at 100:1 or 80:1?



It's 50:1 in everything I run. I don't quite believe the 100:1 stuff. It's worth nothing that Amsoil states it can be run AS LEAN AS 100:1, not that it SHOULD always be run that lean. At 50:1 it's amazingly clean and nearly smokeless, and I get added piece of mind.

I will add that, although I run the Amsoil Outboard oil at 50:1 on my 90 Hp Mercury, I do run my smaller kicker/trolling motor at 80:1, because it's always running at low rpms.


----------



## Terry Syd (Nov 26, 2011)

Oil threads remind me of board room meetings. If the topic of discussion is about recent changes in software or new accounting techniques, there isn't much response from the board - but bring up the topic of parking spaces and everyone has an opinion. 

Everyone mixes their own fuel, therefore they have some expertise on the topic - and we get pages of opinions as a result.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> I was just wondering if people really think it makes a nickel's worth of difference.


Matter of fact, I do......................but not a penny more:hmm3grin2orange:



Mastermind said:


> So........what ratio is best???? I mean, really? :msp_unsure:



I won't run 50:1 in my ported saws. I'm ok with 40:1, but prefer 32:1. I believe that gives me a measureable level of protection with the higher RPMs and temps a ported saw will run.


----------



## K&L Landscaping (Nov 26, 2011)

I have cold feet about the Saber. I'm just going to stay with the HP Ultra because I know it's a proven performer through my own, real world testing. I just can't afford any oil related failures in my equipment fleet (who can?). I will just pony up the extra cash for the Ultra and be done with it.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> I have cold feet about the Saber. I'm just going to stay with the HP Ultra because I know it's a proven performer through my own, real world testing. I just can't afford any oil related failures in my equipment fleet (who can?). I will just pony up the extra cash for the Ultra and be done with it.



I know of a few people that run saber. Parrisw builds quite a few ported saws and runs saber in his, at 40 or 50:1. I believe you'll be fine with it, I just wouldn't do it at 100:1.

Here lately Ive been mixing all mine at about 37:1. I put (1) 2 gallon premix of ultra, with a gallon and a half of gas. Its easier to keep up with for me that way.


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

I just ordered a liter of bel ray h1r synthetic. I just want to give it a try...


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> I use Amsoil, seems to be good and clean burning. There are people that hate Amsoil products.
> 
> As to Dominator, I have no idea and will not research it, never heard of it ...... in fact, LOL. I use Amsoil Saber for 2 stroke oil, didn't research beyond that. * I get Amsoil Saber by the case *when I buy other Amsoil for skidders and trucks and ATV's.
> 
> Sam



What does a case of it run you Sam??


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm thinking hard on the H1R now after the airplane torture test...otstir:


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> I'm thinking hard on the H1R now after the *airplane torture test*...otstir:



That was what made me give it a try. 

Great talking with you BTW.


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

Yeah I'm going to try some of it too. I hope to get some run time around Christmas with it. 

Good talking with you Randy.


----------



## StihlyinEly (Nov 26, 2011)

K&L Landscaping said:


> I have cold feet about the Saber. I'm just going to stay with the HP Ultra because I know it's a proven performer through my own, real world testing. I just can't afford any oil related failures in my equipment fleet (who can?). I will just pony up the extra cash for the Ultra and be done with it.



And that's the most important thing. Confidence in proven performance. All this "which oil is the best" is pretty much nonsense. Any excellent quality oil, either conventional or synthetic, will do a great job if mixed as recommended and used in a well maintained saw. I prefer synthetic myself, and Amsoil among synthetics, but that's just because it's a proven performer to me. 

Folks, get out there and cut!!!!


----------



## RTK (Nov 26, 2011)

Slamm said:


> It was a simple question. I've run Supertech Outboard 2 Stroke oil, which by many accounts should ruin a saw in about 5 tanks, LOL, and now I use Amsoil Saber, because I get it for cheap, when I buy synthetic for my trucks and skidders, and it has been run at 80:1 and now 50:1, yet the PC look great when inspected. So its hard for me to comprehend how reading about 27 different oils is going to make or break a PC to any measureable degree, when most saws in this forum aren't used that much to begin with and the old, conventional oils of 20 years ago, has been good enough to have saws still running on it today.
> 
> Its a free world, but I just think its silly to put all this wonderment into 2 stroke oil, beyond a reasonable quality, synthetic and what color it comes in, LOL.
> 
> ...




You got it, the oils of today are so far superior to the oils of years past, if mixed correctly, and saw tuned properly, I doubt 99.9% of the people would ever wear out a piston or cylinder no matter what oil they used. When I raced karts some 37 years ago the Mac racing engines had a sticker on them to mix at 16-32:1 non detergent 30w motor oil. No additive packages, dispersant's, etc.......Of all the oils I have used Amsoil saber seemed to leave the hardest deposites.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 26, 2011)

StihlyinEly said:


> I've used it on all my 2-strokes for years. Great stuff, and very clean. I buy most of my saws and other 2-strokes used, and the large majority have been run on conventional oils. I can't tell you how many times I've picked up those units and seen a lot of carbon and sludge buildup, and after 5 or 6 tanks of Amsoil mix, they are cleaner and running smoother.
> 
> *I'm sure it'd be the same with most high-end synthetics, just that for me it's been Amsoil*.



Your last statement is correct,,, I have seen the same results with The Ultra HP in Chainsaws, stringtrimmers, brushcutters, polesaws cutoff saws, edgers, that have been rented & run for years with the orange bottle dino based mix,,, I small engine tech part time at an *** dealer's shop who is a personal friend of mine to help when they get behind,,, & cause I like piddling with motors and making them run!!! 
they rent (with 1 gallon of mixed Ultra fuel) all of the two stokes I just mentioned and they buy and mix 35 gallons of non ethanol 89 octane fuel at a time,,, when Ultra HP first came out back in 06 or so,, they switched to it from the orange bottle,,, I dont know how many tanks it took,, but the first one I had to tear down after the switch was an older 08S Saw that the bearings seals were pretty well shot or the crankcase was damaged,,, (cant remember it's been a few years OK!!!!!!) :bang: from the years of rental abuse,, anyways, I had to pull the jug ,,, and was use to decarbonizing them in the past before putting them back together,,,, I couldnt believe how clean the top of the piston/Exh port/comb chamber were,,, I am not kidding I barely had to clean those areas at all,,,
that is the same day I switched to Synthetics,,, in my *** stuff,, its funny I have been running the Klotz Super Techniplate on my 2.5 LITER Merc Hi performance division fishing motor,,, that is no where near stock,,, BTW!!! and my buddies drag boat runs a mix of R-50 and the 80-20 w bean oil,,, he says the bean oil can handle the heat like no esters can,,, FWIW,, he's been racing two smokes sucessfully for a very long time,,, some of his past national record holder RC boats run the bean oil based Klotz on Nitro w/methanol and turn well in excess of 22K rpm over 105 MPH,,,

Dont yall just love oil threads!!!! who started this anyways???


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 26, 2011)

I don't know what smartass started this thread but it's not been too bad:msp_unsure:


----------



## RTK (Nov 26, 2011)

We could change that LOL


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 26, 2011)

RTK said:


> We could change that LOL



And Stuff.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Nov 26, 2011)

I know the klotz benol is not recommended for cold weather. I ran the r50 for quite awhile but had build up on top of the piston. Made the switch to blue marble mineral oil. Has been pretty good for the past few years. Never tried the techniplate tho.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 26, 2011)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> I know the klotz benol is not recommended for cold weather. I ran the r50 for quite awhile but had build up on top of the piston. Made the switch to blue marble mineral oil. Has been pretty good for the past few years. Never tried the techniplate tho.



R50 has that tendency, but everything else seems to stay extremely clean.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 26, 2011)

Andyshine77 said:


> That was the list I was talking about, and unfortunately the two stroke bikes are getting few and far between. I have seen a few bikes with stuck power valves running caster oil, and I didn't like what I saw with 927 or Klotz super, both run extremely dirty in my experience. There was an old school thread about 927 when big Dave was still porting a lot of saws. 927 and Klotz Super simply do not burn clean in saw, I've seen just too much evidence. Don't get me wrong you're not going to blow up an engine running caster oil, it's just that they're much better options IMHO. And lets not forget castor oil doesn't like cold temps.





And there you have it. My experience runs right the opposite of yours. The TZ250 has guillotine style power valves and after running straight castor premix the YPVS system was well oiled but in no way gummed up. The worst deposits I have ever seen were on the piston of my FS76, after being run on nothing but Stihl orange bottle 50:1 for over 10 years the rings were glued in the grooves. Horrible varnish. 


I guess it's time to post this pic again. 



Tzed250 said:


> This is what I call clean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 26, 2011)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> I know the klotz benol is not recommended for cold weather. I ran the r50 for quite awhile but had build up on top of the piston. Made the switch to blue marble mineral oil. Has been pretty good for the past few years. Never tried the techniplate tho.



Funny you say that but my Buddy who races full size and RC boats they had a sponsorhip deal with Blue Marble and he really liked it,, I actually have a few gallons of it left,, 

He agrees the R-50 does leave some carbon on the piston top but he's tearing down after every race weekend anyways and I usually an helping and what I see also agrees w/Andyshine's post...
Every thing internal is sparkle clean and well oiled no signs of heating of bluing of rotating assembly brgs, rings, etc



Andyshine77 said:


> R50 has that tendency, but everything else seems to stay extremely clean.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 26, 2011)

Tzed250 said:


> And there you have it. My experience runs right the opposite of yours. The TZ250 has guillotine style power valves and after running straight castor premix the YPVS system was well oiled but in no way gummed up. The worst deposits I have ever seen were on the piston of my FS76, after being run on nothing but Stihl orange bottle 50:1 for over 10 years the rings were glued in the grooves. Horrible varnish.
> 
> 
> I guess it's time to post this pic again.



That jug is clean, it's always looked that way.:smile2: But the combustion chamber never seems to be the issue. I ran R50 for over two years and the combustion chamber looked just as clean, the piston crown not so much. I ran Klotz super for a few months and I didn't like what I saw at all. Stihl's Ultra on the other hand burned clean, and protected well, as I'm sure you know. Ultra must have a great add pack, I simply didn't like the smell, and gallon price. I also like the fact full ester oils are attracted to metal, and penetrate into the pores of metal, the thermal stability is an added bonus.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 26, 2011)

Well, I got into my xpw tonight. Took the muffler off and pulled the plug to check it out. It does'nt look to be that dirty at all. Theres a slight brownish color in the exhaust outlet that feels sorta sticky in a way. Very thin though. The inside of the piston and cylinder show a good coating of oil. The crown shows a black sut on top but you can still see the cut marks from the lathe on top of it so it's not that thick. Looks sorta like black ash. I would think thats pretty good considering it's probably had around 75-100 tanks of 45:1 with the R50. 

I tried to take some pics but my camera isnt up to the close ups. If any of them are worth posting then I'll post em up in a few.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 26, 2011)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Well, I got into my xpw tonight. Took the muffler off and pulled the plug to check it out. It does'nt look to be that dirty at all. Theres a slight brownish color in the exhaust outlet that feels sorta sticky in a way. Very thin though. The inside of the piston and cylinder show a good coating of oil. The crown shows a black sut on top but you can still see the cut marks from the lathe on top of it so it's not that thick. Looks sorta like black ash. I would think thats pretty good considering it's probably had around 75-100 tanks of 45:1 with the R50.
> 
> I tried to take some pics but my camera isnt up to the close ups. If any of them are worth posting then I'll post em up in a few.



Good to hear it's working out for you. R50 probably runs cleaner at 40:1 than say 32:1, it's a very consecrated race oil.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 27, 2011)

Yea Andre, it looks about like you explained before. The piston and cylinder are very very clean and theres absolutely no wear at all. This saw should have about 200+ tanks on it now. Hard to keep up after so long. 

The only dirty places are the slight brown varnish on the exhaust outlet and the black crust on top of the piston. I can scrape it and it's like ash. i guess it's natural?

Still, I'm thinking of trying the MAxima K2 or the Belray H1R.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 27, 2011)

Heres a few of the pics. Don't know if they'll show anything. The last one you might be able to see the piston top.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Nov 27, 2011)

They didnt show. I'll try again.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 27, 2011)

That's awesome looking, very similar to what I experienced with R50. 

Here's a pic of my 7900's piston from the exhaust port. Like in your pics the ring is clean and you can still see the machining marks in the piston.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Nov 29, 2011)

MacLaren said:


> I'm gonna go with the Bel-Ray H1R.
> I just ordered a liter of the Bel-Ray H1R for 21.30 just like stumpy had posted.



Did you order from Stumpy????

after all he is a site sponsor!!!!

I'm just sayin!!!



Andyshine77 said:


> That's awesome looking, very similar to what I experienced with R50.
> 
> Here's a pic of my 7900's piston from the exhaust port. Like in your pics the ring is clean and you can still see the machining marks in the piston.




Those pistons look real good,,, R-50 @ 40:1 is a good ratio I think!!!!


----------



## Miles86 (Nov 29, 2011)

Just for fun, I mixed some Benol with Motul 800 to see if they will mix and they do mix nicely. This gives a synthetic / castor that also runs cleanly, and protects.

Motorex Racing GP is simliar castor blend and JASO FD rated.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Feb 4, 2012)

*update*

I picked up some H1R and K2 awhile back, I shared half of it with a couple AS members for their valuable input  I really liked both, but seemed to like the H1R just a fuzz better. It has a better smell to it,, which sounds dumb, but my head cant take much of the smell of some oils. Also I think the H1R burns just a little bit cleaner than the K2, but doubt its enough to make that big of a difference over a period of time. I know I have about 10 tanks of H1R in a popup 066 and the piston crown is just as shiny as the day I put it in.

One thing I don't particually like about it, I found myself having to open up the high sides a bit more in every saw I ran it in....more than I usually would. If Im cutting with some buddies I wont let them run my mix in their saw unless we adjust for it. I had to open up all my saws between a 1/8th and a 1/4 turn. I guess the H1R must be heavier or thicker or something...then again it may just be my saws .

With the K2, I couldn't really tell a difference in the tune over the Stihl Dino or Ultra. I ran the K2 in several saws that were tuned on Orange bottle, Ultra, Husky Low smoke, and Husky XP, and never had to make a carb adjustment for the K2 that I can remember.

Im 100% positive there both great oils, as they should be. Im out of H1R and have just a bit of K2 left, but I just ordered myself a 4 liter supply of the H1R, and got 2 liters of the K2 for my cutting friends.....had to take advantage of the free shipping .


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm gonna stick with the H1R Durand. I like it better than any oil I've used to date. Like you said, it is a super clean burning oil. Klotz on the other hand left behind some nasty deposits. 

The K2 is still in the bottle......I only mixed one gallon of it. Nothing at all wrong with it either. I just like the idea of finding something that works and sticking with it. The H1R works for us.


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm gonna stick with the H1R Durand. I like it better than any oil I've used to date. Like you said, it is a super clean burning oil. Klotz on the other hand left behind some nasty deposits.
> The K2 is still in the bottle......I only mixed one gallon of it. Nothing at all wrong with it either. I just like the idea of finding something that works and sticking with it. The H1R works for us.



Hmm,

I hear this quite a lot,

Never had a problem with Klotz myself. And this goes back to the early '70s.

Can someone please show some pics of this "nasty deposit" stuff?


----------



## mowoodchopper (Feb 4, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> Hmm,
> 
> I hear this quite a lot,
> 
> ...



Same here buddy, run super techniplate at 40 to 1 and have for a few yrs, not gonna change either


----------



## forestryworks (Feb 4, 2012)

Outside of Stihl and Husky oils, Mobil 2T was the only other one I ran. Liked the color and smell of that.

Back to Husky XP oil now. When that runs out, gotta find something cheaper.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 4, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> I picked up some H1R and K2 awhile back, I shared half of it with a couple AS members for their valuable input  I really liked both, but seemed to like the H1R just a fuzz better. It has a better smell to it,, which sounds dumb, but my head cant take much of the smell of some oils. Also I think the H1R burns just a little bit cleaner than the K2, but doubt its enough to make that big of a difference over a period of time. I know I have about 10 tanks of H1R in a popup 066 and the piston crown is just as shiny as the day I put it in.
> 
> One thing I don't particually like about it, I found myself having to open up the high sides a bit more in every saw I ran it in....more than I usually would. If Im cutting with some buddies I wont let them run my mix in their saw unless we adjust for it. I had to open up all my saws between a 1/8th and a 1/4 turn. I guess the H1R must be heavier or thicker or something...then again it may just be my saws .
> 
> ...



Great review!! as you I like how K2 seems to not effect carb tuning as much as some of the other bike racing oils.


----------



## joeclimbing (Feb 8, 2012)

I've been sticking with the sthil ultra but I probably don't saw nearly as much as you are. What about husky semi-synthetic?



mdavlee said:


> Which klotz oil do you guys run? The stihl ultra is gone sky high at the local stihl dealer so I'm not going to run it any more. A 6 pack of ultra 1 gallon mix is a little over $10 now:msp_mad: I've ran the motul 2t 710 and it seemed fine also but a little high. The bike shop doesn't carry maxima K2.


----------



## cpr (Feb 8, 2012)

Not so much run time on any one saw as many of you, but 100LL with R50 at something between 32:1 and 40:1 hasn't been a problem. In fact, I believe my fuel source is now 100VLL because I'm not seeing gray coating on the exhaust ports anymore.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm revisiting this topic again. I had to search a bit to find this thread.

I've been using *Maxima K2 *for a while now and have no issues with it. But, all the talk about *Bel-Ray H1-R* got me wanting to try it. I bought a small container of it at the local motorcycle shop. I'm also very interested in *Motul 8002T Offroad*. All of these oils will protect very well. That leaves two questions. Which one burn the cleanest? Which provide corrosion protection? I was looking at Silkolene PRO 2 SX, but saw mention of surface rust in the bottom end. Some of my saws set for months, and that's something I definately want to avoid.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 19, 2012)

I used some motul 2t 710 and it burnt clean with no deposits. The other 660 didn't seem to have any carbon on the piston top until I used klotz. The belray seems to need richened up some extra compared to the klotz. The xpw has been run on klotz of some sort since the other guy owned it and the piston top is covered in a black layer. It might have 10-12 tanks run through it. Out of all the bike oils I've tried so far the belray or motul would be my 2 picks depending on price. The only other oil I want to try is the husky synthetic mix.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

Yeah, I'm done with the Klotz R50. You'll notice that it's not in my top three. I'm sure it provides phenominal protection, but I believe these others can provide as good of protection and burn cleaner while doing it.


----------



## Slamm (Feb 19, 2012)

LOL, is it too hard to just fill up the tank with Amsoils Saber and run the saw? I've got saws with 10 times the hours as both of you guy's saws and the insides don't look like they have been run much over break in, and they have been run at 80:1 and 50:1 on the stuff, and the saws are all modded, they are the cleanest insides you will find ..... or that is what other knowledgeable engines guys have said about them......... just wondering.

Sam


----------



## rms61moparman (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yeah, I'm done with the Klotz R50. You'll notice that it's not in my top three. I'm sure it provides phenominal protection, but I believe these others can provide as good of protection and burn cleaner while doing it.




I'll take any of your left over R-50 Brad.



Mike


----------



## RTK (Feb 19, 2012)

Anyone ever try redline racing oil? It burns really clean


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

rms61moparman said:


> I'll take any of your left over R-50 Brad.



I used all that I had. I'm not suggesting that it's not good oil. I just think there are better choices for our application. So, when it's time to purchase, I'm revisiting the topic. Plus I enjoy the hunt.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Feb 19, 2012)

I've been running this for awhile now 40:1 curious to see how it does, another mineral oil.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

Slamm said:


> LOL, is it too hard to just fill up the tank with Amsoils Saber and run the saw? I've got saws with 10 times the hours as both of you guy's saws and the insides don't look like they have been run much over break in, and they have been run at 80:1 and 50:1 on the stuff, and the saws are all modded, they are the cleanest insides you will find ..... or that is what other knowledgeable engines guys have said about them......... just wondering.
> 
> Sam


I'm not saying Saber's not good oil. That doesn't mean there aren't equally good or better oils. I enjoy the hunt, so that's what I'm doing.


----------



## Slamm (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm not saying Saber's not good oil. That doesn't mean there aren't equally good or better oils. I enjoy the hunt, so that's what I'm doing.



I get that, but how will you ever know you found the trophy when 97% here will never actually wear out a saw??? Once you hit a certain level of quality oil, it won't make any difference, I mean none.

I was just talking to a guy that still uses that Walmart Super Tech outboard oil, this guy has millions of board feet on his saws and they are still running fine. I used Walmart Super Tech oil and still have saws that ran through a hot summer on the stuff, the piston and cylinders are stil fine and they have a lot of hours on them.

I use that example as one of crappier oil, and nobody on this forum would ever notice the difference and likely I would have saved enough money on oil to buy a new saw had I stayed with Walmart Super Tech over say this Amsoil Saber or whatever other wizbang oil is out there.

For the record I'm for a good synthetic, but I don't quite grasp the oil thing, when it seems the only people that ever care are the ones that would never know or see the difference in the metal of the piston or cylinder.

My opinion,

Sam


----------



## computeruser (Feb 19, 2012)

Kinda late to the thread and maybe I just missed a conclusive answer earlier up in the thread, but a couple quick questions:

1. Does R50 have the Klotz smell, or is that limited to supertechniplate and other Klotz oils with the bean juice in them? 

2. Of these various oils discussed, Klotz or otherwise, how do they compare to the now defunct Mobil Racing 2T? Someday I'll run out of MX2T, and I'd like to take a step forward, not backward, when that time comes. I know that saws I've run from new (or from rebuilt) on MX2T 43:1 stay completely clean, all hashmarks still visible, and no real carbon buildup up top in the cylinder or on the piston, even after many, many tanks.

3. Does anyone know what oil is being put in VP Racing's SmallEngineFuel premix? It is getting harder to find ethanol-free gas around here, and despite my best efforts I had a saw go down halfway through a job yesterday due to rubber bits in the carb dissolving, so given the "cost" of me being frustrated by #### like that, the expense of SEF (premix or mix-my-own) doesn't seem unreasonable given my rate of 2-cycle fuel consumption.


----------



## rms61moparman (Feb 19, 2012)

computeruser said:


> Kinda late to the thread and maybe I just missed a conclusive answer earlier up in the thread, but a couple quick questions:
> 
> 1. *Does R50 have the Klotz smell*, or is that limited to supertechniplate and other Klotz oils with the bean juice in them?
> 
> ...





Yes it does!
Actually quite different from Super Techniplate but still very distinctive.
The Super Techniplate kinda gives me a headache if I am exposed to large doses of it and the R-50 doesn't do that.
The only time the Super Techniplate bothers me at all is on a very still day bucking BIG wood, especially with a front exhaust saw. (Which most of mine are) When I get down to the last of the cut and have to bend over or squat down it just gives me a twinge.


Mike


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I used some motul 2t 710 and it burnt clean with no deposits. The other 660 didn't seem to have any carbon on the piston top until I used klotz. The belray seems to need richened up some extra compared to the klotz. The xpw has been run on klotz of some sort since the other guy owned it and the piston top is covered in a black layer. It might have 10-12 tanks run through it. Out of all the bike oils I've tried so far the belray or motul would be my 2 picks depending on price. *The only other oil I want to try is the husky synthetic mix.*



That Poulan synthetic they sell at Wally World is the same stuff from everything I've read about it.

Sam has a valid point in that any decent oil will work and work fine. I have so many saws and only cut my firewood and cookies when testing, there's no way I'll ever wear out a saw.


----------



## ZeroJunk (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That Poulan synthetic they sell at Wally World is the same stuff from everything I've read about it.
> 
> Sam has a valid point in that any decent oil will work and work fine. I have so many saws and only cut my firewood and cookies when testing, there's no way I'll ever wear out a saw.



I have said this before. I have had saws come through here with everything on them worn out except the piston using who knows what, but I guarantee it was just whatever was on the shelf at the saw shop.


----------



## Slamm (Feb 19, 2012)

ZeroJunk said:


> I have said this before. I have had saws come through here with everything on them worn out except the piston using who knows what, but I guarantee it was just whatever was on the shelf at the saw shop.



Agreed.

I know quite a few Amish loggers that simply use Wally world outboard 2 stroke oil and they have used it for years on the same saws, yet the saws still run fine ...... I've run them.

It seems to me that after an individual simply steps up to synthetic or a name brand, its just splitting the already split hair at that point, and at that point, there isn't anyone on this earth with several million dollars worth of equipment that is going to observe the difference.

Sam


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

Slamm, this is a hobby for most of us. It doesn't have to make sense to you. As strange as it may sound, I *want *to research oils. Additionally, I'm not worried about my saw wearing out. All of the oils mentioned are top tier ester synthetic oils. I'm more interested in the cleanest burning, and the one that provides the best corrostion protection.


----------



## Gologit (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Slamm, this is a hobby for most of us. It doesn't have to make sense to you. As strange as it may sound, I *want *to research oils. Additionally, I'm not worried about my saw wearing out. All of the oils mentioned are top tier ester synthetic oils. I'm more interested in the cleanest burning, and the one that provides the best corrostion protection.



Well said.

It gets old, you know, the constant badgering back and forth between the guys who make their living with a saw and the guys for who it's just a hobby. It's counter productive.

I've made my living with a saw for quite awhile.. That doesn't mean I know everything and it doesn't mean that I can't learn something new. The firewood guys, the cookie cutters, the motor-heads...the guys who have the time and the the opportunity to try new things...can be a wealth of knowledge. You guys are having fun, and experimenting, and finding things out...good and bad.

Oils, fuel mix, new bars and chains, tuning methods, tools, porting techniques..these are all things that the "hobby cutters" can work the bugs out of. You guys try all the new stuff, and you let us know what works and what doesn't...that's a valuable contribution.

And we who need our saws up and running every day, who stick with a narrow band of knowledge, performance, and products because we have neither the time nor the money for experimentation, can benefit from the idea sharing and knowledge that's available here.

LOL...you guys are our testing department. I was going to say 'crash dummies" but I figured maybe that would cause problems.

We won't always agree and we won't always buy into a new product or a new idea because of our work environment. A saw, for me, is just another tool to get my job done but that doesn't mean that I don't want it to run at it's very best and last as long as possible. That's just good business.

What works for the weekend warriors may not always work for us. But if we just blindly disagree with ideas that are presented here we're shooting ourselves in the foot. We can't afford to do that either.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 19, 2012)

I do like trying the new oils. I usually try to run 5 gallons in a short period of time with a oil. It seems that's all it takes to show up build up on piston crowns and exhaust ports. 

Bob you tried the stihl light bars yet?


----------



## Gologit (Feb 19, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I do like trying the new oils. I usually try to run 5 gallons in a short period of time with a oil. It seems that's all it takes to show up build up on piston crowns and exhaust ports.
> 
> Bob you tried the stihl light bars yet?



Not yet...still waiting for more reports from you guys.  They're starting to make an appearance in the woods, though. And from what I've heard they're a big improvement on the Oregon RW. I have a 36" on order.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 19, 2012)

You can use them as a pry bar, Uh I mean to gently pop the undercut out.

I haven't tried it with the 36" yet. I might have to attach it to a lighter powerhead to use it falling. I like 90 cc saws but the 3120 with a 36" on it is about like a mac 125 without the vibes. Fun to play with for a cut or 3 but not to pack and fall trees with.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Well said.
> 
> It gets old, you know, the constant badgering back and forth between the guys who make their living with a saw and the guys for who it's just a hobby. It's counter productive.
> 
> ...



I just had to quote this great post. Thanks Bob, you da man.


----------



## Rounder (Feb 19, 2012)

Mike, hadn't looked at this since you first posted it. What did you settle on?

Today I found Lucas Semi-Syn in gallons for a pretty good price locally, so we'll give it a shot. Always trying to find something cheaper, but still good quality. Been running Amsoil Sabre at 75:1, but it's kind of a pain to come by. Really cheap to run. The Lucas cost me a hair more at 50:1, but it looks like it will be easy to find in the 1 gallon jug. Could only find the Sabre by the quart (when I could even find it).

We'll see.......Hope you found something that works - Sam


----------



## Fish (Feb 19, 2012)

Reviving an old oil thread is kind of interesting....

Cannot get enough emotion to float a new one...??

Yes, those that play with saws, and those that use them in their livelihood, gives added backround for this forum.....

Either way, it is kind of fun to read, but buying something because it says synthetic on the bottle, and watching a few infomercials, well heck,
I am still a tried and true Slick50 man......


----------



## Eccentric (Feb 19, 2012)

RTK said:


> Anyone ever try redline racing oil? It burns really clean



I've been using Redline 2-Stroke Racing Oil for at least 25 years. Ran it in my 2-stroke dirt bikes and quads. I run it my saws now. It offers great protection, is compatible with ethenol gas, burns clean, and leaves a film in the engine that seems to protect stuff well. I've pulled apart engines that I hadn't ran for 3 years or more, and there was still a thin film of oil on everything. I like it, and it's cheaper for me locally (at bike shops) than the Stihl and Husky synthetics.


----------



## Fish (Feb 19, 2012)

The chit at the dealer works fine too.......

The failures that 99.9% of you guys will see, your oil mix will have absolutely nothing to do with. But, rather listening to the morons here that will
coach you through trying to carb adjust out a running problem, instead of fixing the saw, that is where your piston/engine failures will come from........


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

Fish said:


> The failures that 99.9% of you guys will see, your oil mix will have absolutely nothing to do with. But, rather listening to the morons here that will
> coach you through trying to carb adjust out a running problem, instead of fixing the saw, that is where your piston/engine failures will come from........



Excuse us?


----------



## Fish (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Excuse us?



LOL, sure....


----------



## Fish (Feb 19, 2012)

Instead of just recieving notifications, and building a list of our "Likes"....

Can't we get one for our accumulated "hates" as well??????

I would put that one up like a Cub Scout Merit Badge!!!!!!!


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 19, 2012)

Sam right now i'm running belray. Used a gallon in the past 2 days. I've got 2 gallons mixed up that's left. Would have used more but it was little trees and the 555 seems to run forever on a tank. I think the 3120 uses as much per cut as it did per tree. I think the belray costs the same as stihl ultra per gallon.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Feb 19, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Sam right now i'm running belray. Used a gallon in the past 2 days. I've got 2 gallons mixed up that's left. Would have used more but it was little trees and the 555 seems to run forever on a tank. I think the 3120 uses as much per cut as it did per tree.* I think the belray costs the same as stihl ultra per gallon.*




Its quite a bit cheeper for me. I guess it depends on what ya gotta pay for Ultra. I havent bought any in awhile, but I was thinking a 6 pack of 1 gallon mix bottles was almost $20 bucks the last I bought....if Im not wrong. I put the calculator to it once before, but I can't remember the numbers off hand. Buy the H1R by the 4 liter bottle.


----------



## Rounder (Feb 19, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Sam right now i'm running belray. Used a gallon in the past 2 days. I've got 2 gallons mixed up that's left. Would have used more but it was little trees and the 555 seems to run forever on a tank. I think the 3120 uses as much per cut as it did per tree. I think the belray costs the same as stihl ultra per gallon.



Didn't know they even made mix. I'm sure it's good. Their foam filter oil is the best I've found by a long shot.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Fish said:


> Instead of just recieving notifications, and building a list of our "Likes"....
> 
> Can't we get one for our accumulated "hates" as well??????
> 
> I would put that one up like a Cub Scout Merit Badge!!!!!!!



I bet flowers come outta yer ass when you fart Fisher. :hmm3grin2orange:

You're such a ray of sunshine and everthang.........


----------



## Fish (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I bet flowers come outta yer ass when you fart Fisher. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> You're such a ray of sunshine and everthang.........



sniff.......


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

fish said:


> sniff.......



lmfao.........


----------



## komatsuvarna (Feb 19, 2012)

I dunno, smells like #### to me!











































:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 19, 2012)

Rocky mountain atv had it at a real good price with free shipping a while back. I'm going to check at the suzuki shop tomorrow when I go to the big city. I hope the husky dealer has a fuel line and a tank vent for the 2100. 

This was a good oil thread. There wasn't any real arguing or much stuff like a lot of them.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

Where's the BITOG gurus when you need them. What makes one oil better for storage than another? Which of the three I listed would be best in those reguards.


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 21, 2012)

I have found Belray H1R here in Ozz but at $37.95 per ltr i think i will stick with Mobil T2 untill i run out.:smile2:


----------



## oneoldbanjo (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree with the comment that most of us will never have an oil related failure......most failures will come from running a saw with bad gas or an air leak or some other related failure.

I also enjoy hunting for the best fuel and oil.....it helps keep me from getting some habit that might be more expensive or addicting!

Following are some oils I tried and my own experience:

Mobile 2T - It ran fine, seemed to run clean, and I had no problems with it in my saws. In my motorcycles it seemed to make a lot of smoke and unburned oil in the exhaust - but I did not notice that problem in my saws.

Amsoil Saber - I started using this oil as I had a trials motorcycle that kept leaking unburned oil out the exhaust. I was running Mobile 2T at 80:1 in the motorcycle and switched to the Amsoil Saber at 100:1....and it ran fine in the trials motorcycle. I used some of the 100:1 mix in my weedwacker and leaf blower for about 2 years and they ran just fine - but I mixed at 50:1 for my saws. I did not have any trouble in the equipment I used it at 100:1 or 50:1. I do believe that this oil is much thicker than most 2 cycle pre-mix oils - and that may be why it can be mixed at 100:1 as there appears to be less solvents in the oil to disperse the lubricating part of the oil.

Amsoil Dominator - I used this mixed at 50:1 in my chainsaws and it ran fine and seemed to run clean. I stopped using it as there is a noticeable smoke coming from the exhaust when you would close the throttle - but it does not seem to smoke any more under load or when idling.

Maxima K2 - This is the oil I am currently using. I read about Esther based synthetics having an "affinity" for adhering to metal surfaces and that sounded like a good trait for an oil to have. The national importer for Sherco trials motorcycles uses this oil exclusively and it is the only 2 cycle oil they sell - they have very good luck with it and have tried lots of other oils. It seems to work very well in my saws and other equipment and when I have pulled a muffler or spark plug to look inside it appears to be burning very cleanly. I can't buy it locally and just order some online when I am getting other parts ordered.

I am sure that if you run any good synthetic oil with a good grade of gasoline and keep it fresh - and keep your saw in proper tune you will not have any problems. In my experience the people that burn up saws saws are the ones that either don't notice that their saw is not running properly and keep running a saw that is running too lean - or they keep running the saw and hope that whatever is making it run poorly will "heal itself". If your saw is not running right - it is time to stop and see what is wrong!


----------



## wilsonishere (Feb 21, 2012)

I was asked to reply to this thread and specifically about Motul 800 2t, Maxima K2, and Bel-Ray H1R, so here are my two cents. These are great oils in the lubricating and varnish removal departments, the problem falls to the ester base that is used for our chain saw applications. The ester is a group V oil witch is normally used only for additives. The reasons that ester is not a common base stock are the tendency of ester to (attack rubber seals and cause swelling and deterioration), not a huge problem in motorcycle applications. But when you get into using it in a chain saw that has a rubber diaphragm, for a fuel pump, rubber flapper valves for carburetion control, and on a lot of models a rubber intake tube it becomes a problem. Another disadvantage is that ester reacts with water and can hydrolyze with heat. Not a problem for some saws as the gas tank is separate from the engine but I would not run out and use any ester product with say an old Echo that has the gas tank made into the casting. Now if you do not mind the extra maintenance this may cause (I have not tried them my self) then try them out, as ester is a great lubricant because of its tendency to cling to positive charged metal. Now in a PAO based oil group IV, ester additives can be a great thing because certain PAO’s shrink seals so the ester can counter act that shrinkage, but the two have to be balanced. Hope this helps someones choise in oil.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 21, 2012)

Good post Banjo.

I'm sure you know this, but most of the time oil coming out the exhaust is a product of improper jetting, but not always. Silkolene PRO 2 SX is a good example of this. The dispersants used in the oil causes excess spooge in the exhaust. Yes spooge is a technical term.:biggrin: I ran Pro 2 for almost a year and experienced this first hand, I did like the oil overall however..

I know many have ran Amsoil at 100:1 without issues, but what I saw in an engine that was ran on this mix, was not good to say the least. With that said it must be pretty good oil with a hefty add pack, lots of plasticizers to keep the engine from seizing.

I'm also running K2, so far it's the best oil other than Mobil-1 2T I've ran to date.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 21, 2012)

wilsonishere said:


> I was asked to reply to this thread and specifically about Motul 800 2t, Maxima K2, and Bel-Ray H1R, so here are my two cents. These are great oils in the lubricating and varnish removal departments, the problem falls to the ester base that is used for our chain saw applications. The ester is a group V oil witch is normally used only for additives. The reasons that ester is not a common base stock are the tendency of ester to (attack rubber seals and cause swelling and deterioration), not a huge problem in motorcycle applications. But when you get into using it in a chain saw that has a rubber diaphragm, for a fuel pump, rubber flapper valves for carburetion control, and on a lot of models a rubber intake tube it becomes a problem. Another disadvantage is that ester reacts with water and can hydrolyze with heat. Not a problem for some saws as the gas tank is separate from the engine but I would not run out and use any ester product with say an old Echo that has the gas tank made into the casting. Now if you do not mind the extra maintenance this may cause (I have not tried them my self) then try them out, as ester is a great lubricant because of its tendency to cling to positive charged metal. Now in a PAO based oil group IV, ester additives can be a great thing because certain PAO’s shrink seals so the ester can counter act that shrinkage, but the two have to be balanced. Hope this helps someones choise in oil.



You are a 100% correct. However we are dealing with modern oils with modern additives like seal conditioners, antioxidants, Plasticizers and a slew of other additives, and in some cases even PAO oils. Ester based is just that, it's a base oil. Most high end 2 cycle oils including Stihl's ultra have an ester backbone. 

The problem is the early ester oils were awful, they were highly hygroscopic, they would eat seals and fuel lines like there was no tomorrow, and most went back to castor oil at the time. Things are quite different today, esters based oils no longer have any of these side effects.


----------



## redoakneck (Feb 21, 2012)

I use stihl ultra and just mixed up some amsoil saber at 44.4:1 with no e gas. Not good to use both types of mix???


----------



## MEATSAW (Feb 21, 2012)

Would running K2 at 40:1 be alright?

Also someone mentioned mixing Stihl Ultra with h1r (or k2). Is mixing oils alright? How would you know what ratio to use?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 21, 2012)

MEATSAW said:


> Would running K2 at 40:1 be alright?
> 
> Also someone mentioned mixing Stihl Ultra with h1r (or k2). Is mixing oils alright? How would you know what ratio to use?



K2 burns quite clean even at 32:1. That's what I've been running for about a year. Not all oils mix well. I don't know the specifics of which will and which won't.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 21, 2012)

MEATSAW said:


> Would running K2 at 40:1 be alright?
> 
> Also someone mentioned mixing Stihl Ultra with h1r (or k2). Is mixing oils alright? How would you know what ratio to use?



Most of the time mixing oils will work OK, but it's not something I would recommend and a few types of oils simply will not mix properly at all. Most of the newer esters have little in common with the first esters from the late 60's and 70's, not just the additives, but the base oil itself. 

Like Brad said K2 will work great at 40:1 or 32:1, the same could be said for H1R based on BelRay's own recommendations.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 21, 2012)

I need to get a picture of the xpw piston. It's got a layer on it with around 10 tanks of klotz super techniplate or R 50. I can't remember which one he used.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 21, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I need to get a picture of the xpw piston. It's got a layer on it with around 10 tanks of klotz super techniplate or R 50. I can't remember which one he used.



I've seen the very same, and it seems to be the only real negative with the Klotz oils I've ran. Everything else always looked great, but the piston crown always had buildup. Because of this I still recommend R50 as long as you pay attention to any excessive buildup.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 21, 2012)

I found the same. K2 does not seem to do this.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 21, 2012)

This 066 had only been run on bel ray so I'll keep peeking in there and see what it looks like in a few more tanks.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 21, 2012)

I know it's mostly a sales pitch, but start paying attention at around 10 minutes into the video. Most if not all syn two cycle oils have ester base stocks.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kCtnwMmqIX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## deye223 (Feb 22, 2012)

opcorn:


----------



## oneoldbanjo (Feb 22, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Good post Banjo.
> 
> I'm sure you know this, but most of the time oil coming out the exhaust is a product of improper jetting, but not always. Silkolene PRO 2 SX is a good example of this. The dispersants used in the oil causes excess spooge in the exhaust. Yes spooge is a technical term.:biggrin: I ran Pro 2 for almost a year and experienced this first hand, I did like the oil overall however..



I am familiar with the term spooge.....it is used on the Trials Central website often as well as other terms that I have had to learn that come from overseas.....such as Tickover, Pinking, Wobbly and No Joy.

I believe my spooge problem was caused by me just being a beginner and I spent a lot of time at low revs and really didn't have any good areas to open the bike up occasionally and get the exhaust hot enough to burn out the oil in the exhaust. I have since switched to a 4 stroke trials motorcycle and we are getting along just fine!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 22, 2012)

Trials motorcycle always had that issue with all the idling. A former employer of mine had the first 4 cycle Honda trials bike in the country. He was good friends with his Honda dealer, he bought all the parts for the bike and assembled them.


----------



## dk27 (Feb 22, 2012)

*Most if not all syn two cycle oils have ester base stocks*

say it ain't true
Amsoil 2 stroke oil is really an ester based oil
Who would have thought


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 22, 2012)

dk27 said:


> say it ain't true
> Amsoil 2 stroke oil is really an ester based oil
> Who would have thought



Just because an oil has ester base stocks in it, doesn't mean it has a high percentage of ester, but that's not necessarily good or bad.


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 23, 2012)




----------



## Miles86 (Feb 23, 2012)

Liqui-Moly Racing bike oil additive:
Colloidal Moly solid

Liqui-Moly Racing Bike Oil Additive


Yes it IS designed for use in _2 strokes_.

I mixed in some with my usual premix and all I will say is - it works. Throttle response is definitly better, and it was great to start with. It makes the engine feel like it will rev out forever. I thought I had an air leak at first. 

A 4 oz. bottle will last a long time if your a non-pro.


----------



## MEATSAW (Apr 5, 2012)

A quart of R50 showed up at my house today. After running my saws for about 1.5 hours I'm a real big fan of this stuff. If for nothing else the exhaust doesn't irritate me like previous oils have. I mixed it at 36:1 with sta-bil added.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 5, 2012)

R50 is great oil, but won't burn as clean as K2. I'm trying H1R right now.


----------



## brown1 (Jun 18, 2012)

*H1r*



blsnelling said:


> R50 is great oil, but won't burn as clean as K2. I'm trying H1R right now.



Hey Brad,

Just wondering if you had any further thoughts on the H1R or the Motul 800 2T off road???


----------



## mdavlee (Jun 18, 2012)

The h1r is the cleanest oil I've used to date. I tried some of the motul 710 and it was real clean also.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Jun 18, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> The h1r is the cleanest oil I've used to date. I tried some of the motul 710 and it was real clean also.



Sweet. I tried Klots super techniplate & it left more deposites than I cared for. I'll have to give H1R a try.


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 18, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> The h1r is the cleanest oil I've used to date. I tried some of the motul 710 and it was real clean also.



I just tried a quart of R-50...... 

I'm going back to H1R.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 18, 2012)

So far so good on the H1R. I've not used any of the Motul 800 2T.


----------



## mdavlee (Jun 18, 2012)

I've got about a half a quart of original techniplate here too. I've used it for lubing up bolts and stuff now. I won't use it in a saw again. If it was a saw just racing I might run it where build up isn't going to happen that fast. I had buildup in the other 372 in about 2 gallons of klotz.


----------



## Fish (Jun 18, 2012)

I use R50 Lite..... More flavor, less calories.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Jun 18, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I've got about a half a quart of original techniplate here too. I've used it for lubing up bolts and stuff now. I won't use it in a saw again. If it was a saw just racing I might run it where build up isn't going to happen that fast. I had buildup in the other 372 in about 2 gallons of klotz.



I've seen enough after one tank that I won't be using it any more. What kind of smell does the H1R have??


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 18, 2012)

Stumpys Customs said:


> I've seen enough after one tank that I won't be using it any more. What kind of smell does the H1R have??



None......thank goodness.


----------



## mdavlee (Jun 18, 2012)

Yeah belray doesn't have hardly any smell. I like the klotz smell but not the deposits.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 18, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Yeah belray doesn't have hardly any smell. I like the klotz smell but not the deposits.



I love that smell too. Anyone tried the Motul 800 2T yet? I've got some, but am using up the H1-R first.


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I love that smell too. Anyone tried the Motul 800 2T yet? I've got some, but am using up the H1-R first.



I liked it......for a while. Then it started giving me headaches. :msp_confused:


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Jun 18, 2012)

I love the Klotz smell also, but it can get to you after awhile. :msp_razz:


----------



## Fish (Jun 18, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I liked it......for a while. Then it started giving me headaches. :msp_confused:



That is called "marriage".......


----------



## mdavlee (Jun 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I love that smell too. Anyone tried the Motul 800 2T yet? I've got some, but am using up the H1-R first.



The 710 motul didn't have much smell either. It's sort of like the bel ray. I mixed up 5 gallons of it and used it up and it didn't leave any noticeable deposits.


----------



## rms61moparman (Jun 18, 2012)

I love the smell of Klotz R-50 but the Super-Techniplate will give me a headache if I'm confined with it.
I learned this on a hot still day bucking a HUGE silver maple and kneeling/bending over with that exhaust coming up right in my face and no wind to move it along didn't last long.
I came out of there quick!!!
Anyone ever work in a dynamite magazine????


Mike


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jun 18, 2012)

Im still running and liking the H1R too. I've been running the K2 in the demo saws at work because it doesn't seem to effect the high side tune as much as the H1R, I like it as well.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jun 18, 2012)

rms61moparman said:


> I love the smell of Klotz R-50 but the Super-Techniplate will give me a headache if I'm confined with it.
> I learned this on a hot still day bucking a HUGE silver maple and kneeling/bending over with that exhaust coming up right in my face and no wind to move it along didn't last long.
> I came out of there quick!!!
> *Anyone ever work in a dynamite magazine????*
> ...



Yep....talking bout a hell of a headache....handling the stuff without gloves gives me a headache. We got 2 magazines behind the shop .


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jun 18, 2012)

Besides the smell of R50 getting to me, the deposits on the piston crown were pretty bad. K2 seems to run quite clean and it has little smell.


----------



## morgaj1 (Jul 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I love that smell too. Anyone tried the Motul 800 2T yet? I've got some, but am using up the H1-R first.



Bringing up an old thread. I have been running Motul 800T for a good while now and really like it. I don't notice the smell that others have. I have an old stihl edger that I recently replaced the rings on. It had a large amount of carbon build-up on it. I pulled the exhaust the other day and almost all the carbon is gone. Good stuff in my book. I would like to run the H1R too.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2012)

morgaj1 said:


> Bringing up an old thread. I have been running Motul 800T for a good while now and really like it. I don't notice the smell that others have. I have an old stihl edger that I recently replaced the rings on. It had a large amount of carbon build-up on it. I pulled the exhaust the other day and almost all the carbon is gone. Good stuff in my book. I would like to run the H1R too.



So this stuff removed the built up carbon??? How?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jul 8, 2012)

Fish said:


> So this stuff removed the built up carbon??? How?



The detergents in the add pack, I've see this happen more than once.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2012)

A redneck with a cup of cold water in the carb breaks up carbon too......

So these detergents are the miracle workers then? So they soak into the existing carbon, and break it up?


----------



## BloodOnTheIce (Jul 8, 2012)

I run original techniplate in all of my race.saws and work saws. 

A guy who knows more than me said run it so I listened.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Jul 8, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Besides the smell of R50 getting to me, the deposits on the piston crown were pretty bad. K2 seems to run quite clean and it has little smell.



Randy had my xpw recently for some tinkering. he sent me pics of the inside of my engine and it was completely gunked up with carbon. i had looked awhile back after running about a quart of original techniplate and i only had a light film of carbon. The pics randy sent were after about half quart of super techniplate at45:1. I would not recommend it to anyone who wants to keep a clean engine. I'll see if I can dig up those pics. He got it cleaned up good and its in the mail Im going to start fresh with the Belray H1R.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jul 8, 2012)

Fish said:


> A redneck with a cup of cold water in the carb breaks up carbon too......
> 
> So these detergents are the miracle workers then? So they soak into the existing carbon, and break it up?



Yes it dissolves the carbon. Mobil 1 2T was the best I've seen at doing this, wish it was still available.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 8, 2012)

rms61moparman said:


> I love the smell of Klotz R-50 but the Super-Techniplate will give me a headache if I'm confined with it.
> I learned this on a hot still day bucking a HUGE silver maple and kneeling/bending over with that exhaust coming up right in my face and no wind to move it along didn't last long.
> I came out of there quick!!!
> Anyone ever work in a dynamite magazine????
> ...



I had to ditch the Klotz, the fumes are way to much when you get into a little bigger wood. Also gunked things up pretty good, which I've never had happen in any of my saws....


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Jul 8, 2012)

Here's a pic of the combustion chamber. Mind you, this is after only a half quart of Klotz Super techniplate. I had looked in it prior to running that half quart just to see what it looked like after running a quart of original techniplate and it was only blackened, not built up and crusty. 
Theres no wear in the cylinder or on the piston at all so it does the job as far as protection, just burns way to dirty for my taste.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jul 8, 2012)

I still like R50. IMHO it offered the best scuff resistance of any oil I've used. K2 burns a bit cleaner, but I see more polishing on the piston than I did with R50.


----------



## morgaj1 (Jul 8, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Yes it dissolves the carbon. Mobil 1 2T was the best I've seen at doing this, wish it was still available.



Andre is correct about the detergents. My local Stihl dealer swears that the HP Ultra dissolves carbon better than any oil. BTW, what happened to the Mobil 1 2T? I see it referenced a lot, but never got to use it.


----------



## mdavlee (Jul 8, 2012)

That super techniplate is real dirty. My xpw was run on some of the r50 or super and the piston was caked thick with it. I'm using belray still for now. I like the no smell and clean burning. It does seem to affect carb adjustments more than any other oil I've run. Every saw I've used it in needed richened up.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jul 8, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Here's a pic of the combustion chamber. Mind you, this is after only a half quart of Klotz Super techniplate. I had looked in it prior to running that half quart just to see what it looked like after running a quart of original techniplate and it was only blackened, not built up and crusty.
> Theres no wear in the cylinder or on the piston at all so it does the job as far as protection, just burns way to dirty for my taste.



That's what castor oil can do, it looks nasty. R50 would never to that, in fact the combustion chambers were always clean with only mild buildup on the piston crown.

This saw was ran on R50, and it was tuned rich most of the time.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2012)

So it disolves carbon, so I could pour some of the mix on a carboned piston and notice anything?

Or does it need the event to be in the cumbustion chamber of a running engine?


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Jul 8, 2012)

This pic is after a quart of the Original techniplate. Same cylinder. This was right before I started on the Supertechniplate.






No buildup at all, just blackened. Piston in perfect shape. It's amazing that after just half a quart that exhaust port was just caked with carbon


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jul 8, 2012)

Ewww!! :msp_thumbdn:

Not saying the H1R is the ''be all end all'' oil, but what I've seen in the last little bit in my own saws I really like it. I've put several gallons through a 395 (which isn't hard to do ) in the last week and a half. Cleaned up the saw this morning and pulled the plug to have a look see.....Piston crown and exhaust port is still semi-shinny! Kinda surprised me a little!


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> This pic is after a quart of the Original techniplate. Same cylinder. This was right before I started on the Supertechniplate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So do you have a "before" pic????


----------



## Rounder (Jul 8, 2012)

I would stay the hell away from the super techniplate......Or as said, any castor.

I've always been really happy with the HP Ultra, I just run Amsoil because it costs me less, and seems to have all the same benefits of the Ultra (burns really clean, no noticable fumes).


----------



## mdavlee (Jul 8, 2012)

The smell of ultra gave me a headache if there wasn't a breeze. I don't know why it doesn't smell that bad or strong. I don't mind the smell of the original techniplate but don't like the buildup. I've still got almost half a quart around here somewhere.


----------



## zorak (Jul 8, 2012)

Is the lower the flash point of the oil better?

Here are the flash points Stihls 220c (432f)
amsoil dom-90c (194f)
amsoil sab-114c (237f)


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2012)

Fish said:


> So do you have a "before" pic????



Must be a "No"!!!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jul 8, 2012)

zorak said:


> Is the lower the flash point of the oil better?
> 
> Here are the flash points Stihls 220c (432f)
> amsoil dom-90c (194f)
> amsoil sab-114c (237f)



The flash point is only one thing to consider, but generally the higher the flash point the better the shear strength.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jul 8, 2012)

All my saws get .15% castor oil


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2012)

Thought so........


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Jul 8, 2012)

Fish said:


> So do you have a "before" pic????



Sure don't


----------



## MEATSAW (Jul 18, 2012)

I refuse to start a new oil thread and I believe this is an appropriate thread to ask this:

What is the proper ratio for R50 or K2? Recommended ratios on their products website are 25:1 (but that's referencing snowmobiles and bikes) and on AS it seems that everyone just mixes it somewhere between 25:1 and 50:1. I'm used to getting Ultra HP which is 50:1 clear and simple. This racing oil stuff seems to be more open to interpretation. I just want the right mix for a chainsaw (muff modded is all I've done, yet). 

I'm using R50 right now but I've got a quart of K2 to use too.


----------



## Stumpys Customs (Jul 18, 2012)

MEATSAW said:


> I refuse to start a new oil thread and I believe this is an appropriate thread to ask this:
> 
> What is the proper ratio for R50 or K2? Recommended ratios on their products website are 25:1 (but that's referencing snowmobiles and bikes) and on AS it seems that everyone just mixes it somewhere between 25:1 and 50:1. I'm used to getting Ultra HP which is 50:1 clear and simple. This racing oil stuff seems to be more open to interpretation. I just want the right mix for a chainsaw (muff modded is all I've done, yet).
> 
> I'm using R50 right now but I've got a quart of K2 to use too.



I mix 32:1 no matter what oil I use. Even Stihl ultra.


----------



## mweba (Jul 18, 2012)

Stumpys Customs said:


> I mix 32:1 no matter what oil I use. Even Stihl ultra.



I just fill the tank and pour in a cap full of oil.


















DISCLAIMER NEVER DO ANY THING I DO


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jul 18, 2012)

MEATSAW said:


> I refuse to start a new oil thread and I believe this is an appropriate thread to ask this:
> 
> What is the proper ratio for R50 or K2? Recommended ratios on their products website are 25:1 (but that's referencing snowmobiles and bikes) and on AS it seems that everyone just mixes it somewhere between 25:1 and 50:1. I'm used to getting Ultra HP which is 50:1 clear and simple. This racing oil stuff seems to be more open to interpretation. I just want the right mix for a chainsaw (muff modded is all I've done, yet).
> 
> I'm using R50 right now but I've got a quart of K2 to use too.



R50 is very concentrated so you can run it a 40:1 or 50:1 if you like. K2 is a different breed of oil and will burn cleaner with richer ratios like 32:1. I personally run all my saws on 32:1 mix, and the only thing it does is coat all the right places with plenty of oil. For normal use and in a woods ported saws either oil will do it's job fine, with R50 having better shear strength IMHO. K2 will burn cleaner, with less smoke and less smell. For normal use you will likely be happier with K2, for racing R50 would be the better choice IMHO.


----------



## sachsmo (Jul 19, 2012)

Super Tecniplate,

It's got some bean oil in it, and just smells like a 2 stroke should.


(It also mixes with ethanol)


----------



## Miles86 (Jul 19, 2012)

This is the Klotz I use:
Mainly for the rust protection and meets JASO FD---
I mix 20:1 and no carbon fouling at all.
Benol is nice but too much plug fouling and not happy with off season storage protection.
This is similar oil to Belray JS2 watercraft(Marine Racing new name) and Mystik HP Ultimate 2 stroke and Shindaiwa Red Armor.

_quote from Klotz website:_

Snowmobile TechniPlate®
TC-W3

This premium, power valve friendly, synthetic lubricant has been providing racers and enthusiasts with the best protection available for over three decades. The smoke-free formula and great smell will ensure that the riders behind you will enjoy the quality of Klotz® as much as you're enjoying the performance benefits. Exceeds NMMA TC-W3®, *JASO FD(#236), ISO-EGD *and API TC low ash specifications for certified warranty compliance in Ski Doo®, Polaris®, Yamaha®, and Arctic Cat® Snowmobiles. Not alcohol compatible.

Description:
Snowmobile TechniPlate® TC-W3 is a pure synthetic lubricant. Extremely high load carrying capacity for reduced engine wear and low maintenance. Clean Burn™ No-Smoke Technology *eliminates carbon and residue build-up*. Meets and exceeds API TC, TC-W, NMMA TC-W3, JASO FD and ISO-EGD specifications for certified warranty compliance in Ski-Doo®, Polaris®, Yamaha® and Arctic Cat® snowmobiles. Klotz Snowmobile TechniPlate® TC-W3 will challenge and outrun the competition in the following ways:

•Improves throttle response
•TechniPlate® lubricity system for superior film strength and anti-scuff protection
•Clean Burn™ for low smoke and prevents plug fouling
•Anti-Oxidation *protection against rust and corrosion*•Contains familiar Klotz Red for easy mixing and racy scent
•Power Valve formula for R.A.V.E.™, V.E.S.™, A.P.V.™ and Y.P.V.S.™ Valve engines.
•Super cold Pour Point of -40°F provides fast, easy starting


Application:
Snowmobile: 2-Stroke/gas; Stock, Trail, Hi-performance, Drag Racing, Snow Cross, Water Cross 
Characteristics: 
Smoke Rating: 10 1 = fog - 10 = no smoke 
Clean Burn™: 10 1 = heavy deposits - 10 = no carbon 
Film Strength: 8 1 = failure - 10 = no wear 
Pour Point: -40°F 
Flash Point: 275°F 
Maximum RPM: 10,000 
Viscosity @ 100°c: 7.10 cSt Typical 
Product Color: Red 

Instructions:
2-Stroke pre-mix or oil injection: Mix at 40:1 to 50:1
Compatibility: Blends with gasoline and stays in suspension. Will blend with petroleum oils and synthetic lubricants. 48% Biodegradable formula. 

Available part numbers: KL-215 quart; KL-216 gallon; KL-215-05 (5 Gallon); 30 & 55 gallon drum 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------

