# PNW area questions



## Thorcw (Nov 2, 2010)

Im looking on visiting the area and am curious to what is the "season"? and do you guys mind typically if I drive around to look at an operation in full swing obviously I would be staying out of the way more of observing from a distance and does anyone know were some OG forests to walk through?


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 2, 2010)

If your referring to logging season there is no season they log year round unless they re snowed out of the woods. Slowp would be most up to speed on logging operations going on.
Old growth is easy to find to walk thru. Hoh rain forest prolly has the most biggest trees its on the Olympic peninsula. Mount Rainier national park lower elevations but a lot of that will be closed till june. Federation forest east of Enumclaw has some huge trees its 600 acre natural park.

The weather season were in now means 70-80% chance of rain until May or June.


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## slowp (Nov 2, 2010)

There's more restrictions on the Western WA and Oregon federal forests. There is virtually no logging here, on the FEDERAL forests from March 1 to July 1. That is owl nesting season and most of the forest is considered to be Spotted Owl habitat. 

The economy is another factor. There is some logging going on but not as much as a couple of years ago. Private landowners are holding out for better timber prices. 

However, I'm seeing plenty of log trucks heading to our mills and as long as they are going, there should be some logging operations somewhere.

It is hard to tell you where to go see any without knowing when you'd be out here. Like Cedarkerf said, if we get a lot of snow, which is predicted, that will slow down operations also. 

There is protocol to follow, mainly courtesy. You should contact a logging person/company and ask if it would be OK, learn the rules of driving on a log truck route, and like you said, stay out of the way if they let you go. The latter could be hard because room on landings is limited and you have some big machinery working in a confined area. Parking is very limited. The roads can be rough, muddy, snowy, and steep. They are usually one lane wide with turnouts here and there. How are you backing up skills? 

Your best bet would be to wait until there's something going on the public land because the roads usually stay open to everybody, although there'll be scary signs like TRUCKS, TIMBER FALLING AHEAD, and sometimes the old LINES ACROSS ROAD. 

Old Growth? Why don't you know we cut it all?  Nah, there's bits here and there. The Olympic has a lot. We have the Big Tree area and other patches/hillsides around. I think this area has the world record Noble Fir, which I thought was logged but wasn't. 

Don't expect to see the volcanoes until July, August, and September. The main road to Mt. St. Helens doesn't get plowed until the last week of June. Those are the driest months. 

Are you driving here? I came back via US 2 and it was enjoyable. Wal Mart isn't open in N. Dakota until afternoon on Sundays!


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## RandyMac (Nov 2, 2010)

There are a few Redwoods left.


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## Thorcw (Nov 2, 2010)

I was thinking of flying in and renting a car. Ive found its about the same price as if I drive more time out there dont have to go through a Dakota (sorry there boring) and dont have to worry about your personal vehicle breaking and being possibly stranded for a week (it happened to me once in Tennessee and it cost a fortune by the time I was done). I wouldn't mind going through a few states around there possibly meeting some of you PNWers


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## forestryworks (Nov 2, 2010)

Thorcw said:


> Im looking on visiting the area and am curious to what is the "season"? and do you guys mind typically if I drive around to look at an operation in full swing obviously I would be staying out of the way more of observing from a distance and does anyone know were some OG forests to walk through?



Be a nice trip.



RandyMac said:


> There are a few Redwoods left.



LMAO!


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## Gologit (Nov 3, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> There are a few Redwoods left.



What ??? !!! Where ??? !!! Get your saw, McKendrick, grease up your boots. Gather your tools. We'll start early.


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## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2010)

I might be making a trip out to CA for work after the first of the year. I might have to make a trip to northern cali and visit you randymac.


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## Thorcw (Nov 3, 2010)

Gologit said:


> What ??? !!! Where ??? !!! Get your saw, McKendrick, grease up your boots. Gather your tools. We'll start early.



Why grease the boots?


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## slowp (Nov 3, 2010)

Thorcw said:


> Why grease the boots?



If they are rubber, I would suggest ArmorAll. Bring a bunch of that humidity sucker inner crystals stuff too. Put it in your suitcase so your clothes don't mildew.


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## RandyMac (Nov 3, 2010)

Ha ha
Was out Walker Road yesterday, met my Bro for PBRs and a smoke. I've never logged in the flats, many monster trees, some would be interesting, need highly technical methods.

If anyone heads this way, I'll make sure you see the best of what is left.


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## upstateny (Nov 3, 2010)

Gologit said:


> What ??? !!! Where ??? !!! Get your saw, McKendrick, grease up your boots. Gather your tools. We'll start early.



Forgive my Ignorance...whats a McKendrick?


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## RandyMac (Nov 3, 2010)

This is the MacKendrick.


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## madhatte (Nov 3, 2010)

There's some cool OG forest up near Staircase as well. Also the Blues/Wallowa-Whitmans. Oh, and the OR Coast Range, the Siskiyou, the North Cascades... the list goes on. Anyplace that was a bit challenging to log out of in the old days has a chance of having the occasional remnant stand. Hell, I even know one patch smack in the Willapa Hills, in full view of Hwy 12, that just plain got missed. Plus, plenty of second-growth forests are ~150 years old now and virtually indistinguishable from old-growth. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the PNW is full of cool forest.



Thorcw said:


> Why grease the boots?



Keeps your feet dry and the boot leather pliable. Use Obenauf's or the like, avoid Huberd's.


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## ChrisF (Nov 3, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> This is the MacKendrick.



I'm not so sure. It looks like it but it's holding the wrong kind of saw.


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## slowp (Nov 3, 2010)

Carry extra snacks so when the lowboy can't make it around and up the switchback and they have to unload it, walk the piece of equipment around the switchback, then drive the lowboy to a place to reload it, you can munch while trapped on the wrong side of this uniquely choreographed maneuver. 

Guess what happened today?


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## joesawer (Nov 3, 2010)

slowp said:


> Carry extra snacks so when the lowboy can't make it around and up the switchback and they have to unload it, walk the piece of equipment around the switchback, then drive the lowboy to a place to reload it, you can munch while trapped on the wrong side of this uniquely choreographed maneuver.
> 
> Guess what happened today?





Lol at least you get paid by the hour!


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## hammerlogging (Nov 3, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> This is the MacKendrick.



Kind of scary, kind of familiar. Wife says its not that we're mercenaries, its a martyr complex. So be it.

Funny thing is, many years ago, back when I was living in a little cabin in NorCal no lights, no water, etc., my mom sent me a book, a book on forestry issues, particularly exploitation of equatorial timber. "Strangely Like War". Funny thing is, the picture on the cover of the hot, dust, dude pulling BIG riggin', caught my heart. Logging, it was an inevitable route for my career. Fate.

Wonder if the author ever expected this result?


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## slowp (Nov 3, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Lol at least you get paid by the hour!



And I got to listen to a mushroom picker, who seemed like he might be a Tweaker, tell me all about the lowboy and the equipment that looked like some kind of a drill.  It was a stroke boom delimber. The Picker was fretting because he needed to get his mushrooms to the buyer in a hurry.
Guess the price must go down as the day winds down? 

They even tried a Crummie Assist with the lowboy. It didn't work. I was glad I had brought a supply of ibuprofen. I needed it. 

NOW GUYS, What is a MacKendrick? Must be a Redwood thang?


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 3, 2010)

Get a CB with a good antenna and pay attention to the channels posted at the bottom of the hill and the mile markers. Amazing how big a Kenworth grill looks when ya dont know its comming around the corner.


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## ArtB (Nov 3, 2010)

_second-growth forests are ~150 years old now and virtually indistinguishable from old-growth_


HUH!!

Have some stumps in my back yard (logged in 1916) that still have over 1000 growth rings that can still be counted, biggest tree looks to have been 10 ft DBH at least. Would have loved to see the land then. 

Nothing 150 YO can approach those or even bigger as in the attached reference pix of even bigger trees. 

http://search.tacomapubliclibrary.o...ubjects+contains+Tree stumps Tacoma 1940-1950


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## Greystoke (Nov 4, 2010)

Gologit said:


> What ??? !!! Where ??? !!! Get your saw, McKendrick, grease up your boots. Gather your tools. We'll start early.



I wanna play too!


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## Joe46 (Nov 4, 2010)

Cedarkerf said:


> Get a CB with a good antenna and pay attention to the channels posted at the bottom of the hill and the mile markers. Amazing how big a Kenworth grill looks when ya dont know its comming around the corner.



Yup. I was run off the road by a Northern Transport rig going over Pyramid pass several years ago. I was on the channel, he wasn't


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## floyd (Nov 4, 2010)

as mushrooms get older quality goes down, when quality goes down so does price.


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## SURDO (Nov 4, 2010)

Rip out hwy 26 west of Portland headed towards the coast and you can find many companies working year around just minutes off the hwy. The site we are on now is within miles of at least three or four other outfits. I doubt anyone will be willing or happy to talk to you when they are trying to get their eight or six in.


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## RandyMac (Nov 5, 2010)

slowp said:


> NOW GUYS, What is a MacKendrick? Must be a Redwood thang?



A MacKendrick is that loud noise found in OG forests, often leaving behind overly tall stumps. Logging crews used to come properly equipped with one, although the supply has become severely limited, due to high attrition often enough crews have had to skinny by with a MacNaughton or other unreasonable replacements. Although more commonly found in the Coast Ranges, there have been sightings in the North Sierras and other forested places. Habitat does vary, however artifacts left at the sites indicate an habitual creature, well set in it's ways. If spotted, approach with caution, mere proximity can place the observer in interestingly dangerous situations.


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## madhatte (Nov 5, 2010)

ArtB said:


> Nothing 150 YO can approach those or even bigger as in the attached reference pix of even bigger trees.



Well, yeah, of course there's a big difference between a 150-yo cohort and a 1000-yo cohort. 

My point is that these older second-growth forests are well past stem exclusion stage and have several layers to the canopy, and without actually drilling with an increment borer to tell age, could be estimated at anywhere from 100 to about 300 yo based on stand structure. When the bark on DF starts to get soft and papery instead of hard and rough, the tree is generally over 200 yo. Older second-growth forests have plenty of trees in them which were passed over the first time which are of that age or older, and the occasional left-over remnant of a much earlier time is often found in there as well. Oregon, especially, has a lot of forest in such condition.


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## hammerlogging (Nov 5, 2010)

madhatte said:


> Well, yeah, of course there's a big difference between a 150-yo cohort and a 1000-yo cohort. .




Sorta like when I was catching mellow little sunset waves one evening in my whitewater boat and the bullish board surfin ##### yelled "you'll never understand" as she paddled out as I rode one down the line.

Post sunset, clean mellow sunset surf on a fine little NorCal (casper inlet) beach break, weekday evening, minding my own business, chillin..... No, I'll never understand. If only I were an uptight something-or-other on a surf board, then I'd really understand.

Madhatte, you best get off to tree huggin school if you wanna hang here

:bang:


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## madhatte (Nov 8, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Madhatte, you best get off to tree huggin school if you wanna hang here



Aw, you know I only hug 'em when I gotta get the spencer around a big one, and even then, only when I'm gettin' paid.

(tho I do have an Evergreen degree, whatever that's worth)


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## hammerlogging (Nov 8, 2010)

Thats where my signature line comes from-the ol' Appalachian diameter limit cut. sometimes a string with a little knot, sometimes a spencer, hug her to get the measurer around, yep, she's in....... rev rev rev.

Not to mention the double meaning, I do actually feel gratitude toward the blessing of this fine world. And like nice trees. 

Expressing this by falling timber is perfectly natural. 

I know I'll be falling one heck of an ash early in my day tomorrow, eyed it toward the end of the day. The timber is gonna be rather scattered after that. But big, so thats good. Hasta.


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## bitzer (Nov 8, 2010)

It is a strange thing. Walking alone in the woods and there they are. They were there before you and would be there after you. When I take my kids into the woods they get a little nervous. I remember that feeling too when I was a kid. Those towering living things. Just walking around when there is no wind. I swear you can hear them growing. Really pretty huge in perspective. 

Man I sure love cutting trees though.


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## rbtree (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm an arborist, not a logger, but the below slide show is from a tree we removed this summer. It may have been the largest tree to be removed in the PNW in 13 years..residentially at least. At 10.5 feet across at ground level and 8 feet dbh, I doubt anything has been logged that large recently either...at least down low....open grown sequoia tapers a lot, so the tree only had about 14,000 board feet, bark included....Crane bill for just the stem, and the time it took to load the first log truck, was $4500!!! I should have charged $8500 labor, but went a bit lighter....2 plus days....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/sets/72157624162999759/show/


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## ArtB (Nov 11, 2010)

Quite the taper, and counted only 137 rings - that correct? Surprised the house was built that close, or is the house older? 

Planted about 10 sequoia in the back yard abut 20 years ago, one of them is a good 18" diameter already, about 50% bigger than some DF planted same time.


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## Greystoke (Nov 11, 2010)

rbtree said:


> I'm an arborist, not a logger, but the below slide show is from a tree we removed this summer. It may have been the largest tree to be removed in the PNW in 13 years..residentially at least. At 10.5 feet across at ground level and 8 feet dbh, I doubt anything has been logged that large recently either...at least down low....open grown sequoia tapers a lot, so the tree only had about 14,000 board feet, bark included....Crane bill for just the stem, and the time it took to load the first log truck, was $4500!!! I should have charged $8500 labor, but went a bit lighter....2 plus days....
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/sets/72157624162999759/show/



Sweet pics! That looked like an awesome removal. I would love to be in on something like that...from a tree climbers perspective anyhow. I like the old 2100 husky...I wish I would have hung on to mine.


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## rbtree (Nov 13, 2010)

ArtB said:


> Quite the taper, and counted only 137 rings - that correct? Surprised the house was built that close, or is the house older?
> 
> Planted about 10 sequoia in the back yard abut 20 years ago, one of them is a good 18" diameter already, about 50% bigger than some DF planted same time.


.

Try again, Art. The tree was 98 years old. It was two when it was planted, for $4, and was planted 2 years after the Olmstead mansion was built. The location is "The Highlands", the gated community that is about as exclusive as they come. Another sequoia was also planted at the gatehouse, which is now an impressive home by itself. That tree is also close to 160 feet tall, but is much smaller at the base. It's on a slope, so gets less water, I assume.

I bid a sequoia stump in Rainier Ave area a while back that was a mere 37 years old, yet 6.5 x 7.5 feet across at ground level!!!


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## paccity (Nov 15, 2010)

rbtree said:


> I'm an arborist, not a logger, but the below slide show is from a tree we removed this summer. It may have been the largest tree to be removed in the PNW in 13 years..residentially at least. At 10.5 feet across at ground level and 8 feet dbh, I doubt anything has been logged that large recently either...at least down low....open grown sequoia tapers a lot, so the tree only had about 14,000 board feet, bark included....Crane bill for just the stem, and the time it took to load the first log truck, was $4500!!! I should have charged $8500 labor, but went a bit lighter....2 plus days....
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/sets/72157624162999759/show/



we took one down last year in salem that was 12+ . big tree small yard, i'll scrounge up some pics.


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