# Rotten Tree Felling



## sdhershey (Jan 13, 2011)

I'll be felling a stand of fairly rotten pine within the next couple of days and just wanted to get some tips on how to do so safety. I was told that cutting rotten wood is alot different than cutting a solid tree, and that I may have to change my style of cuts to get the tree to go in the right direction. Most of these trees are 10-14 inches in diameter at the base and no bigger than 80 feet tall. I have cut some rotten pine before and things didn't go to well. Thanks ahead of time.

Scott


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## joesawer (Jan 13, 2011)

You are proposing to do one of the most dangerous things that a human can do.
I have made a good share of my living cutting dead trees and somehow seem to inherit the dead ugly trees quite often. 
Bit if you are looking for advice on here and have no specific questions all I can say is good luck to you.


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## synness4 (Jan 13, 2011)

wear a metal hardhat and have someone with you


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## ropensaddle (Jan 13, 2011)

:agree2:


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## 2dogs (Jan 13, 2011)

Yeah Joe said it well. If you have to ask about the basics you should have a pro take the job or at least help you.

10-14" trees are hard to wedge and the rotten stumps may just break apart and be driven into the ground. An excavator is a good choice, just make sure it has a good FOPS. If the trees are very soft then a throw line and a rope may break them down.


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## newmexico (Jan 13, 2011)

*safe.*

I think the first thing to realize is that it's inherently dangerous.

....

too bad that detonation cord stuff isn't available more readily.


Be careful...


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## PA Plumber (Jan 13, 2011)

Live, healthy trees scare me.

Standing, dead ones scare me a lot.

Standing, dead, rotten trees scare me a lot more.

Please be careful.

I'm not much of a "feller"; I do try to look up often, and not throw them against the lean.


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## TMFARM 2009 (Jan 13, 2011)

i would agree i would try cabling them and pulling them over first. at a bare minimum it will get most of rotten branches broken loose. be safe.... some time you just have to say no..... a real man know his limits.and such....lol


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## Gologit (Jan 13, 2011)

Rotten as in visible damage to the tree or just dead trees?

Either way, they can be trouble. 

Rotten trees can collapse on you, they can come apart high above you and drop in big pieces, they can just mush apart and sit down on your bar. I've seen snags just kind of "explode"...I don't know any other way to describe it. They'll split vertically, slab out, and there'll be so much stuff flying through the air and happening all at once that you won't know which way to run.

I go along with the idea of a pull rope or some other kind of line. The best way to keep yourself out of the line of fire is to use a snatch block and do your pulling from ninety degrees. If you're doing your falling in a stand of rotten trees watch out for tops breaking out and widow makers from whatever your tree hits on the way down. Stuff doesn't always fall straight and sometimes the velocity of a snapped off limb or top is amazing.

The main thing is...be looking all the time and don't be ashamed to boogie on out of there if things go bad. Wait 'till all the noise stops, wait a little more, then go back in. Look up...look up a lot.


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## upstateny (Jan 13, 2011)

Rotten, in my eyes, is punky falling apart.

When a pine is dried out and the bark falls off it isn't necessarily rotten. They are dry and a good sharp chain will fly through them.

Things I've noticed are:

1. They cut fast
2. Your hinge will disappear if your attention wavers for a second.
3. Wear a hardhat, the branches are brittle and break easy.
4. Be ready to move. Keep paths in mind as you look the tree over before you start cutting.
5. If you can, leave the stumps high, where you aren't bent over to have to stand up before you can move. You can always cut them lower after the tree is safely on the ground.


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## madhatte (Jan 13, 2011)

Eyes on the sky as much as possible! Not only can the branches fall, not only can the bark all slough off at once, but the whole top can accordion down on you, even after the tree is committed. Be EXTRA careful if it sits on the bar in the face cut; that's a warning that it's not in good shape at all and is structurally unpredictable.


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## upstateny (Jan 13, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Eyes on the sky as much as possible! Not only can the branches fall, not only can the bark all slough off at once, but the whole top can accordion down on you, even after the tree is committed. Be EXTRA careful if it sits on the bar in the face cut; that's a warning that it's not in good shape at all and is structurally unpredictable.


 
Yes, I believe I forgot to include that first part. 

On the part of watching them after they are committed, I've had them barely touch their top in another tree, and the tops come back over to meet the stump.


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## madhatte (Jan 13, 2011)

Wait till you have a couple of 'em do that... on fire! Can you say "Pucker Factor"?


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## sdhershey (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to try to tackle the project, but using the utmost of care. Most of these trees are topless and holey (I assume from woodpeckers and such). I'm planning on starting today or tomorrow and hopefully finishing by the end of the weekend. I'll post up some results after its all said and done.


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## rmount (Jan 23, 2011)

Nine days since he planned to start cutting. No further updates or other posts, hope he made it out OK :waiting:


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## sdhershey (Jan 23, 2011)

rmount said:


> Nine days since he planned to start cutting. No further updates or other posts, hope he made it out OK :waiting:


 
I made it OK... Almost got hurt once, and almost killed the dog, but still OK. I felled about 25 trees, limbed them, and am still working on bucking them into eight foot lengths. The real rotten ones I'm just piling to torch, but the semi solid logs I'm stacking. At one point I almost had a run in with a tree top, but I made it out. I'd still like to drop a couple more trees, just haven't had the time. If I could figure out how to post some pictures I'd put some up, but right now I am confused on how to do so.


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## rmount (Jan 23, 2011)

Glad you made it. Not a project I'd care to tackle unless there was no other choice.


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## cristianp (Jan 24, 2011)

A late advice, that might be uselful to others in the future. A dead tree does not mean necessarily it's rotten, althought for a several years dead pine it's quite common for the tree to be rotten.

Anyhow just to get a peek about the health status of the wood you can carve the tree with your chainsaw bar, and watch the color and the consistency of the saw dust that comes out.

From this screening you can evaluate how much rotten wood there's inside, and if you can proceed with the usual cut techniques. If the the tree is almost gone, then the front notch must be done with several horizontal cuts. The first cut is 1/4 diameter deep, the second cut is done slightly lower the first and is less deep, and the third cut is even lower and so on. This way the tree weight won't stress the weak hinge, and you won't risk an uncontrolled fall, but instead the tree will "slowly" and support his fall throught the several slices you cut.


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2011)

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/72269.htm#post1080148


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## 2dogs (Jan 24, 2011)

slowp said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/72269.htm#post1080148


 
That faller is the Madsen's model? The one you mentioned a few months ago?


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2011)

2dogs said:


> That faller is the Madsen's model? The one you mentioned a few months ago?



Yup. He does the scary stuff. Learned from his dad, who is in their photo gallery as one of the great fallers. He and a brother did a Stihl commercial in the 80s.


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## newmexico (Jan 24, 2011)

*good stuff*

Thanks for the Pictures Slowp.

Doug-fir.... Snag... they get funny sometimes, 

Short, fat, straight up, punky, still heavy. nothing holding it up but the bark-- cut the bark and it comes down as fast as a controlled demolition of a concrete building; sometimes in the same manner.

I'm leaving that cutting up to the experts..


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## young bucker (Jan 25, 2011)

i have fell massive stands of rotten pine trees, mainly pine beetle.i found if you have a big shot with a good 8 oz bean bag,try and shoot a 3rd of the way up and use a running bowline to get her tied off, if you don't have the equipment the i strongly recommend creating a huge landing hole for all the rotten or ##### pines your taking out. i wouldn't suggest you do it alone man, those things are brittle,if you have one cut up and if you can set a wedge, and its standing up try and use a pike pole to finish it off. above what i have just mentioned works very well on lodge pole pines or jack pines, ponderosas are a very different story, take it easy look up and live, i have a habit of using over powered felling saws for snag felling,with a good 30 inch bar. good luck


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## ChrisF (Jan 25, 2011)

slowp said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/72269.htm#post1080148



Uh... did that tree sorta just... explode?


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## Gologit (Jan 25, 2011)

ChrisF said:


> Uh... did that tree sorta just... explode?


 
Sometimes it seems like that. Some of those old snags are almost like a stovepipe, just a thin rind of good wood around the outside and completely punky inside.

I don't know if "explode" is exactly the right word or not but I've had some come apart on me that I really can't describe any other way.


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## ChrisF (Jan 25, 2011)

Sounds like a whole lot of no f'in fun!


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## Gologit (Jan 25, 2011)

ChrisF said:


> Sounds like a whole lot of no f'in fun!


 
It goes with the job. Usually pays pretty good, too.


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2011)

It certainly looked like the butt exploded. The top held though. The snag had been there for a number of years, along a busy county road, lots of schoolbusses taking groups of kids to a camp. 

Finally, action was taken. I wasn't there, but I did see his two escape routes which he cut out. They were immaculate. I think he anticipated having to move fast. 

I was helping (carrying his axe) a different faller dump some hazard trees last November and was out of the way. We saw a tall fir snag fold up. We didn't know if the faller survived. When things settled enough, I ran over. He was shaken up as he said he got complacent and almost didn't make it out of the way fast enough. He's a younger, very competent faller too. After that, he was more alert for such things. 

Earlier, I'd been at a tree base with him and things whipped around pretty good. Limbs flying and one leaner had to be glanced off another tree. I was glad I had a sturdy hardhat on. 

He's on my list of safe fallers...safe to be around.


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## ChrisF (Jan 25, 2011)

Gologit said:


> It goes with the job. Usually pays pretty good, too.



I understand.

It's not something for a rookie like me to tackle, though.


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