# Rope questions



## davecla (Feb 15, 2009)

Got a couple of newbie "rope' type questions:

I've to drop a 20m (65 feet in old money) pine. Its leaning back away from where I need it to fall (only slightly), so I planned on roping back to a big tractor (and/or winch) to direct the fall in the desired direction. 

My questions: 

Is there a fancy term for this rope or is the "tree pulling rope" close enough?

I need to go out and buy a length of suitable rope, what sort of breaking strain am I after? I was going to go for a three strand polyester as the branded stuff is going to be about 5 times as much.

Thanks - Dave


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## Farmer Ferd (Feb 15, 2009)

the rope that you use to pull down a tree is generally called a bull rope. You want a good quality non dynamic rope ( non dynamic ropes do not stretch). Do not go to your local hardware store use a name brand such as new England or Samson. many of the sponsors here sell rope. if you do a search on ropes you can glean a lot more info. make sure your are twice the distance from the tree if you are pulling directly towards your self. a redirect with a snatch block is always a good idea. good luck and be safe.


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## pdqdl (Feb 15, 2009)

1. Hook it high.
2. Don't pull so hard that the rope breaks.
3. Set some wedges in case your rope breaks.

Pulling too hard is the most common mistake people make, usually when they are pulling before the hinge is properly set up. I recommend using a winch; it's easier to gauge the load on the rope.


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## fsfcks (Feb 16, 2009)

Regardless of rope I would be concerned with how much it is leaning the wrong way, whether it is practical to do as you suggest, and what happens if it still falls the wrong way.


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## Raymond (Feb 16, 2009)

Farmer Ferd said:


> the rope that you use to pull down a tree is generally called a bull rope. You want a good quality non dynamic rope ( non dynamic ropes do not stretch). Do not go to your local hardware store use a name brand such as new England or Samson. many of the sponsors here sell rope. if you do a search on ropes you can glean a lot more info. make sure your are twice the distance from the tree if you are pulling directly towards your self. a redirect with a snatch block is always a good idea. good luck and be safe.



Yeah what Farm Ferd said! :agree2:


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2009)

Well... He didn't ask us how to cut it down, so I didn't go into too many details.

Farmer Ferd: why specify non-dynamic? Are you trying to avoid rock climbing rope, or do you have something against stretch in the bull rope?

Quite frankly, I prefer stretch in a rope that is going to pull a tree over. It's absorbs shock loading better for idiots that pull too hard, and it will continue to pull in the intended direction after the tree falls faster than your winch/vehicle. This tendency to stretch helps keep a load in the intended direction after a dynamic line would have gone slack.


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## davecla (Feb 16, 2009)

a few more details on my part:

The tree is practically vertical with a bit of weight in the head on the wrong side
if it falls the wrong way, there are no houses, powerlines or other important things. It will get held up in some other trees and need to be dragged out.
All the tree's anywhere near me are 20 - 40yr pinus radiata. 


I need to invest in a bull rope for this and future use and was after some advise on what size/breaking capacity to go for. 

From what I've seen a 100m (320') of good 12mm (1/2") braided rope here will cost be around NZ$800. (That's about 2 weeks rent, or the cost of a Stihl192T to put it in proportion). A 3 strand 14mm polyester rope is about 1/2 of this.

I'll only ever get permission from the missus to buy one, so I wanted to be sure I'd get something that will be good enough for most jobs.

thanks Dave


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2009)

Buy the cheap rope. Tie it high, at least 50' on a 65' tree. Load it down with an inexpensive rope winch til it is nice and tight. 

Make your felling cut, establishing a good hinge at about the 1/2 diameter mark. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE: Make the back cut to leave _about 1" of hinge_. Be sure to knock in some wedges to support the back side of the tree as soon as there is clearance for your bar. Cut too much off, and you will have a disaster. Pull the tree over with your rope winch. Nice and slow, real easy. No more than 1000 lbs of line pull needed, unless you have misrepresented the size or imbalance of the tree.

If any of this sounds outside your skills, then get somebody to do it for you. You can probably hire an expert to put the tree on the ground for you for almost the cost of the rope.


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## (WLL) (Feb 16, 2009)

search for a local arborist supply store near you. 150ft should be plenty of rope. the breaking strength is more important than stretch. 3strand will work fine. you want 6000lbs or better 1/2in or more. static rope has less stretch and is used in repelling,rescue,lifting,towing.


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## (WLL) (Feb 16, 2009)

how are you going too get the rope high in the tree? its very diffacult to run a bowline up to the top of a pine without climbing, a longer rope may be needed.


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## Farmer Ferd (Feb 16, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Well... He didn't ask us how to cut it down, so I didn't go into too many details.
> 
> Farmer Ferd: why specify non-dynamic? Are you trying to avoid rock climbing rope, or do you have something against stretch in the bull rope?
> 
> Quite frankly, I prefer stretch in a rope that is going to pull a tree over. It's absorbs shock loading better for idiots that pull too hard, and it will continue to pull in the intended direction after the tree falls faster than your winch/vehicle. This tendency to stretch helps keep a load in the intended direction after a dynamic line would have gone slack.



It may be just personal choice but on a straight drop I feel you get more control with a non dynamic rope. there is no shock and the amount of pull seems easier to judge. I hadn't thought of your observation of the continues pull and you do make a good point.


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2009)

Farmer: I thought about it a lot. It _would_ be easier to gauge the tension on the line if it didn't stretch so much. Distance pulled=force applied !

Like so many other things, I guess it's all down to personal preference.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 16, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Buy the cheap rope. Tie it high, at least 50' on a 65' tree. Load it down with an inexpensive rope winch til it is nice and tight.
> 
> Make your felling cut, establishing a good hinge at about the 1/2 diameter mark. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE: Make the back cut to leave _about 1" of hinge_. Be sure to knock in some wedges to support the back side of the tree as soon as there is clearance for your bar. Cut too much off, and you will have a disaster. Pull the tree over with your rope winch. Nice and slow, real easy. No more than 1000 lbs of line pull needed, unless you have misrepresented the size or imbalance of the tree.
> 
> If any of this sounds outside your skills, then get somebody to do it for you. You can probably hire an expert to put the tree on the ground for you for almost the cost of the rope.



I really like pdql's advice, except I would like to know more about the "Cheap" rope. I saw the results one time when someone tried do a pull that sounds a lot like yours with a piece of ski rope. Not pretty.

I do a good bit of this with Tree-Master (pg 54 Sherill, $99 US for 150 feet; but I use 200 feet) and a Maasdam Rope Puller (page 131 Sherrill, $65). The neat thing about the combination is the tensile on the Tree-Master is 7,000 lbs and the rope puller only pulls 1500 (note pdql's recomendation). Good thing NOT to pull with anything big enough to break the rope. That way if the Maasdam stalls out I know to go back and cut a little more out of the hinge.


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## Raymond (Feb 16, 2009)

You're getting a lot of good advice here Dave but the best advise I've read was from Pdqdl telling you... 

"You can probably hire an expert to put the tree on the ground for you for almost the cost of the rope." :computer:


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## ntsarborist (Feb 27, 2009)

*t*

use either a 19mm 3 strand nylon rope or a 20mm braided rope. works excelent, use this method many times through the season tied to the Hi-Ranger. you shouldnt break the rope as i have had my rope tied to the tree to the Hi-Ranger and spun tires so the rope isnt going nowhere. the truck will get pulled before anything. put a good notch in the direction ou want it to fall, about a third to just under half way thru the trunk. a wedge will also help for added safty. hope this helps


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## davecla (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks for all the great advice. I purchased my new rope and dropped it a few days back. It went onto the splitter last night and is now just a neat stack of firewood.
The only real issue I had was that my come-along only had about 5' of pull, so it was pull, tie off, pull, tie off etc. Next time I'm going to tie a series of butteryfly loops along the rope to speed this bit up.


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## masiman (Feb 27, 2009)

davecla said:


> Thanks for all the great advice. I purchased my new rope and dropped it a few days back. It went onto the splitter last night and is now just a neat stack of firewood.
> The only real issue I had was that my come-along only had about 5' of pull, so it was pull, tie off, pull, tie off etc. Next time I'm going to tie a series of butteryfly loops along the rope to speed this bit up.



Or get a maasdam puller, much simpler and quicker. Endless pull as the rope just comes in one end and out the other, it does not spool onto anything.


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## Little Monkey (Feb 27, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Buy the cheap rope. Tie it high, at least 50' on a 65' tree. Load it down with an inexpensive rope winch til it is nice and tight.
> 
> Make your felling cut, establishing a good hinge at about the 1/2 diameter mark. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE: Make the back cut to leave _about 1" of hinge_. Be sure to knock in some wedges to support the back side of the tree as soon as there is clearance for your bar. Cut too much off, and you will have a disaster. Pull the tree over with your rope winch. Nice and slow, real easy. No more than 1000 lbs of line pull needed, unless you have misrepresented the size or imbalance of the tree.
> 
> If any of this sounds outside your skills, then get somebody to do it for you. You can probably hire an expert to put the tree on the ground for you for almost the cost of the rope.



is 1" meant to mean 1 inch?? if so i totally disagree , leave about 20% MIN of a hinge, if the rope does snap because you have invested badly and the tree sits back the hinge will snap and you better be a fast runner.


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 28, 2009)

Little Monkey said:


> is 1" meant to mean 1 inch?? if so i totally disagree , leave about 20% MIN of a hinge, if the rope does snap because you have invested badly and the tree sits back the hinge will snap and you better be a fast runner.



So on a 48" tree, you are going to leave a 10" hinge??!! Holy cr&p, you better be good with the wedges.


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## Little Monkey (Feb 28, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> So on a 48" tree, you are going to leave a 10" hinge??!! Holy cr&p, you better be good with the wedges.



no sorry i meant 20% of the remaining timber after you have taken out the gob, if it is a straight fell ( no ropes or mechanical help ) you could feather away more if necessary ,, but for pulling best to leave the 20,


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