# Mastermind Meets The MS441C-M



## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

A very good friend of mine gave me this new MS441C-M for Christmas.....that's right......*gave* me this saw. Talk about blown away.....I still can't believe the generosity of some folks. 

I don't have any pics of the saw before I started taking it apart, the idea of doing this thread was thought of after the saw was already apart. I've not got the correct handle bar yet either, the standard wrap is off to another AS member, in trade for a 3/4 wrap. Here is a shot of it after I got it back together last night.....like I said, *this is not the handlebar that will stay on it*, just an extra I had hanging around. 





I'll have this saw from now on, so a woods port is in order. I'm not a "stock" saw guy. I didn't take any pics of the porting process, but if anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. If need be, I'll post pics from other builds to help illustrate the process. 

In these pics the port work, and machine work is finished. I just want to show how I do the transfer entrances, and what the squish band looks like when done. 





As you can see here, I've added a "trough" to direct and open the transfer entrances. 









If you've not seen a 441 jug off the saw before, the differences between these stratified engines and a "normal" engine are cool to see.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

This is what was removed from the jug while porting. 





If any has any questions, concerns, mild criticisms, just ask......that's what makes any thread a god one. 

These are a few of the needed tools. 













This is how I add the bevel around the port edges. I also sand them with 320 emery cloth by hand.....


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Now for a few more pics to illustrate the differences between this saw and a non-strato.


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## chadihman (Jan 5, 2014)

As always freekin awesome!


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

This is one of the degree wheel setups I use. I'm not a fan of the huge degree wheel......it just makes the pointer so long and flimsy, would rather stay with a 7" wheel.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 5, 2014)

Man of his word. (on the thread)

So you like the 441cm enough to say that "you'll keep it from now on"?


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## chadihman (Jan 5, 2014)

So how does a ported 441 cm compare to a ported 461?


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## bryanr2 (Jan 5, 2014)

or 372 (I know the answer) just need it in the thread for the record.opcorn:


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

A few more pics of the jug while I was double checked my timing numbers.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

chadihman said:


> So how does a ported 441 cm compare to a ported 461?





bryanr2 said:


> or 372 (I know the answer) just need it in the thread for the record.opcorn:



I'm not the sort of person that does a lot of side by side comparison of these saws. I've found that what one guy likes in a certain saw, the next guy will hate. I've heard that a 441C-M I built beat three different ported 372s......I've never compared the 441 to any other saw myself though.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Now we assemble the saw......lots of bits and pieces to one of these.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

The first thing I do on a 441 is separate all the fasteners into groups.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Now, I enlisted the help of my lovely wife to take pics while I put this beast together. Be sure to ask anything......I'll do my best to explain. 

This is a step that may not be needed, but this stuff cuts down on corrosion between parts. 





















I use a drill to run the bolts in, but always double check them with a tee handle.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Now to get the intake boot pulled thru the carb box.....


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

I use a scwrench to hold the piston up while I install the jug...works pretty slick.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Now here's a little trick for getting the impluse and fuel line, and the throttle cable connected. 

Take this one av mount loose. 





And remove this bushing. 





That allows the tank to drop down enough to get in there to work......barely. 









Leaving the jug bolts out helps a bunch during this part too. 

















Note that the throttle cable is behind the fuel, and impulse lines.....


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## stihl for life (Jan 5, 2014)

great thread like always love readying them . welcome back randy


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## MacLaren (Jan 5, 2014)

subscribed.


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## hqv (Jan 5, 2014)

opcorn:


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## firefighterwolf (Jan 5, 2014)

On strato engines, intake side of the cylinder...why is there soooo much mating surface?


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## paccity (Jan 5, 2014)

thanks for the eye candy. keep on keepin on.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Extra long hemostats are great for hooking up the impulse line.....





And then to put the rear AV back together. 













Don't forget the cable wiper. 









And now the bolts for the jug, and the carb box. 









Another little trick....


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

firefighterwolf said:


> On strato engines, intake side of the cylinder...why is there soooo much mating surface?



There are three induction passages......that takes some real estate.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

One wire goes here.....and can be tricky to line everything up.













In this spot there is a stud for the black wire from the coil.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Getting closer.....









I like using hand tools to tighten everything up.....you just know when It just feels right. 

















Note the routing of the wires.





Setting the gap. This card is .010....and yes, they do vary.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

This is one reason I like the 441 better than most Stihl saws. It has this air injection system that keeps the filter very clean......yeah like a Husky.


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## sachsmo (Jan 5, 2014)

Nice work and Photos,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as always.

I for one KNEW you would be back!


We is all frustrated, but the fact remains if you google sumthin about chainsaws, it will lead you here eh?


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Now for installing the carb, and running the wires for the M-Tronic system. 













The black wire goes in first.....





And is routed around to that stud I mentioned earlier. 













Then the red wire.....


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

sachsmo said:


> Nice work and Photos,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as always.
> 
> I for one KNEW you would be back!
> 
> ...



Welp, the email system is working very well now. Big Darin fixed it.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

The kill switch wire.....









Now back in there, on the right hand side of the carb is a white hicky with a fork on it. Make damn sure it mates to the carb correctly. I missed that on the first one of these I did.....and the saw was very hard to start. It is a fast idle setting of sorts.....


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## cre10 (Jan 5, 2014)

Very nice.


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## Duane(Pa) (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm in to watch this one!


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Hooking up the throttle cable...





And testing the linkages. 









Moving on.

















My little wife likes taking pictures.....can you tell?


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## jchin (Jan 5, 2014)

OMG...... Randy you work fast...... I just came back from breakfast and turned on my laptop and see your new thread.
Unbeliveable, you and your wife made this thread this morning. I bow three times to you. In our culture it means
great respect. The pictures are worth a thousand words. I have never seen the inside of a 441 stratified motor... I like the trough idea, about flow....
I have seen that tube on your bench many times, but never knew what it is or used for. The tube that puzzled me was
labeled Poly Si.... never knew what it did or used for. I learn something new everyday and that is why I really enjoy your threads.
Thanks Mr Mastermind.........


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## skanj0 (Jan 5, 2014)

Awesome thread Randy! You are a chainsaw God


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## cutforfun (Jan 5, 2014)

hate to say it randy, but i think Arboristsite site should be paying you monthly fee for all the work you do. Great build w/no bs so far


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Upper AV mount.









Now for the important part.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Here's little trick that helps get the drum on a little easier. Just leave the bearing out while installing it. That way you can move it around to help clear the band, and find the oil pump drive. 





Then spin the drum while you push in the bearing.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

I let little Pudgy (my wife's nickname) go back in the house here. Her knee has been giving her a really hard time, and I could tell she was hurting. So the picture taking is much worse from here on. 

Here's how I do a 441 muffler. I've tried sevreal different ways, but this is what I've settled on, for now at least. 

Stock outlet.





Molested. 





I use a long burr to get way back in here and really open it up. The bottom hole is a straight shot out. 





These pics ain't easy to do alone.


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## mdavlee (Jan 5, 2014)

Where's the videos?opcorn:opcorn: 

I guess I need to make another trip down there in the near future.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

185psi at 1850 feet above sea level.......should make for a great runner. 

















And done.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> Where's the videos?opcorn:opcorn:
> 
> I guess I need to make another trip down there in the near future.




No rest for the weary?


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## mdavlee (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok I'll give you a break until after lunch time.


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## MacLaren (Jan 5, 2014)

That was really cool. Thx Randy.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 5, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Upper AV mount.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



'bout time to get another sticker meself.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 5, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> Where's the videos?opcorn:opcorn:
> 
> I guess I need to make another trip down there in the near future.



by way of knoxville this time. I already missed out on the 661cm GTG.


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## komatsuvarna (Jan 5, 2014)

I really like the ported 441cm's myself..a little chubby but a good runner for sure. I dont think i ever want to work on one though from the looks of the pictures!


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## mdavlee (Jan 5, 2014)

bryanr2 said:


> by way of knoxville this time. I already missed out on the 661cm GTG.



Yeah I'll at least text you and see if you can go. I want to go on a day they're cutting wood and not hanging out at the shop. That's a lot more fun to me and you can run plenty of saws that way.


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## showrguy (Jan 5, 2014)

can you do videos next time ?? for some odd reason i like to hear you talk ??
is my 441cm (the one i got from mtrees) done just like this one ??
that saw is a beast !!!
great thread...


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

We rarely cut on the weekends Mike. I've been trying to get a date setup for a mini GTG though. 

Yeah Durand, the first couple I did were rough. They ain't nutin but a thing now.....

Yep, should be done the same way Chuck.


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## jchin (Jan 5, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> Yeah I'll at least text you and see if you can go. I want to go on a day they're cutting wood and not hanging out at the shop. That's a lot more fun to me and you can run plenty of saws that way.


 
Hi Mr Mdavlee, It sounds like you and Steven are going to gang up on Randy lol.....
I like your Avatar with the wrap handle on the Stihl with the dual dogs on them. They look mean....... I get jealous that you and Mr. Trx250r180 have them on the Stihls. They look great. Maybe Mr Mastermind is putting one on his? It would look mean also. Ready for battle.......


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## bryanr2 (Jan 5, 2014)

MacLaren told me to take the 2171 and see how it stacks up.


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## Yukon Stihl (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi Randy
I hear that since you started posting saw builds on AS again the north and south poles are beginning to re aline Seriously it's great that you are a sponsor here again,it can only be for the better of the chainsaw community.
Couple of Questions about your tools,what kind of right angle hand piece do you use,and are there others to chose from?
Thanks
Thomas


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## mdavlee (Jan 5, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> We rarely cut on the weekends Mike. I've been trying to get a date setup for a mini GTG though.
> 
> Yeah Durand, the first couple I did were rough. They ain't nutin but a thing now.....
> 
> Yep, should be done the same way Chuck.



Let me know. I think I'll be home for a week later in the month. A weekday isn't a problem for me.


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## MacLaren (Jan 5, 2014)

bryanr2 said:


> MacLaren told me to take the 2171 and see how it stacks up.



well........it would be fun to watch 
your 2171 does have an xpw top end though.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Yukon Stihl said:


> Hi Randy
> I hear that since you started posting saw builds on AS again the north and south poles are beginning to re aline Seriously it's great that you are a sponsor here again,it can only be for the better of the chainsaw community.
> Couple of Questions about your tools,what kind of right angle hand piece do you use,and are there others to chose from?
> Thanks
> Thomas



The right angle tools I use are from CC Specialty. Those are MC182s......and I think they are the only choice.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

http://ccspecialtytool.com/182a-mc-small-right-angle-handpiece-adapter


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## mdavlee (Jan 5, 2014)

MacLaren said:


> well........it would be fun to watch
> your 2171 does have an xpw top end though.



You need to tag along too


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## Jacob J. (Jan 5, 2014)

MacLaren said:


> well........it would be fun to watch
> your 2171 does have an xpw top end though.



I'd like to see a Mastermind 441C vs. a XPW...I'll bet it would be close...


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## bryanr2 (Jan 5, 2014)

Proabably all come down to the chain.  (insert pot stir here)


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## komatsuvarna (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm banking on the 441cm .


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)




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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Y'all ever try to call ebay? What a cluster****.....


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## stihl sawing (Jan 5, 2014)

Good to see these threads again, I knew ya loved us to much to leave.


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## Yukon Stihl (Jan 5, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> The right angle tools I use are from CC Specialty. Those are MC182s......and I think they are the only choice.


Thanks Randy
They have been the only ones i have found as well,other than dental ones, which i figured would be hard to find bits for that would be usable for work on larger items than teeth.
Thomas


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## Jacob J. (Jan 5, 2014)

Yukon Stihl said:


> Thanks Randy
> They have been the only ones i have found as well,other than dental ones, which i figured would be hard to find bits for that would be usable for work on larger items than teeth.
> Thomas



Actually, there's lots of bits on ebay. I even bought a set of 1/8" Tungsten burs for a Henry Schein right-angle dental grinder.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 5, 2014)

stihl sawing said:


> Good to see these threads again, I knew ya loved us to much to leave.



You gotta love the Mooberizer...


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

I killed several dental handpieces before getting the CC handpieces. I realize that 300.00 each is tough to swallow, but worth every penny.


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## Locust Cutter (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm curious to see where this stacks up in the 372, 461, 7900 hierarchy... Sideways balance, not-withstanding.
opcorn:


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## Frank Boyer (Jan 5, 2014)

Randy,
You have the majority of a training video on saw assembly. It wouldn't take much to make that a saleable video. I taught VOC ED and we bought a lot of videos. EXTREMELY nice work. THANKS YOU


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## HuskStihl (Jan 5, 2014)

I had been pretty proud of myself for my recent 385 hatchet job......until I saw that. I now totally understand and appreciate why stihls are more expensive. They have lots more stuff inside. Make sure you thank your wife for us, great pictures. Thx


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 5, 2014)

Randy magnificent thread as always,some very good info in there that will help others.

Suggestion
I like to use a heat proof silicon between the cylinder,gasket,muffler to stop oil leaks in time that attracts dust,saw dust etc keeps everything clean in there.


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## wap13 (Jan 5, 2014)

Locust Cutter said:


> I'm curious to see where this stacks up in the 372, 461, 7900 hierarchy... Sideways balance, not-withstanding.
> opcorn:


X's 2 but make the 372 a 51.4mm


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## Tnshaker (Jan 5, 2014)

My brother and I ran 4 ported 372's against the 441c randy did for me....2 were xtorques and 2 were OEM...all veryyyyyyy strong 372's. Let sjust say even the fastest 372 had no chance. The other 3 were not even in the same league. I never could come to terms with the handling of the 2 441c I had. I will say the one randy ported for me is the most impressive ported saw I have ran....and randy will tell u I have ran a bunch..lol. Randy does awesome work on all saws but the 441c's he does are unreal. Put a 8 pin 20" bar and no saw I have ever ran will not beat that saw with that combo.


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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 5, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> 185psi at 1850 feet above sea level.......should make for a great runner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tnshaker (Jan 5, 2014)

I have ran a few 461's and prefer the way it handles. I think with anything over 28" the 461 is stronger with more grunt. Anything 24" or under the 441c seems to have more chain speed.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

I once sent a saw to sea level that was blowing 205 here. It was blowing 230psi there. I'm still waiting for it to puke the crank......but it hasn't yet. 

Made me start taking elevation into consideration.,.....


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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 5, 2014)

Jacob J. said:


> I'd like to see a Mastermind 441C vs. a XPW...I'll bet it would be close...


+1
Randy's got my 372XP Dub, Maybe he could post a video for us when he get her done.


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## Tnshaker (Jan 5, 2014)

I would bet on the 441c.....although i much prefer the 372 handling.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Is the cooler saws a go? You never did say for sure...... It's their turn if so.


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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 5, 2014)

<----Still trying to recover from Christmas cash wise. Can't see coming up with the extra cash right away. (Maybe tax season in a month or so)
I was thinking of asking you too quote me for a muff mod only for the 562.
My thinking on that is the 562 is awful sweet saw even factory stock. Muff modded she'd be even better
(372xpw/562/395)-if you had to make a tough choice which you for-go the mods on?
One is paid for...now which one? "
Kinda like trying to decide which of your kids Your not going to send to higher education"


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## lly_duramax (Jan 5, 2014)

Jacob J. said:


> I'd like to see a Mastermind 441C vs. a XPW...I'll bet it would be close...


IIRC AnthonyVA has both a 441CM and 372XPW done up by Randy. I haven't heard from him in a while. I enjoyed reading his posts since we are both farm boys from VA.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Do the 372 and the 395.....I'll do the 562 as a bonus.


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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 5, 2014)

Your awesome Randy...Still need a little more time though OK?


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## mdavlee (Jan 5, 2014)

lly_duramax said:


> IIRC AnthonyVA has both a 441CM and 372XPW done up by Randy. I haven't heard from him in a while. I enjoyed reading his posts since we are both farm boys from VA.



He does. He told me they're both real close in cutting speed. He switches back and forth with them for work.


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## ft. churchill (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you so much for your informative threads.


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## Venomvpr900 (Jan 5, 2014)

Another great post thanks for spending the time!


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## DexterDay (Jan 5, 2014)

Awesome thread Randy and very awesome of that member to give you this saw! 

Great thread. Great build. Great gift.


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## Currently (Jan 5, 2014)

My 441 that Randy did is a beast. 

I need to bring the 362 back, my dime ... Needs a look over.


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## Mastermind (Jan 5, 2014)

Currently said:


> My 441 that Randy did is a beast.
> 
> I need to bring the 362 back, my dime ... Needs a look over.



What is wrong with it?


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## Ironworker (Jan 6, 2014)

Hey Randy other than the M tronic what other differences are there between that saw and my 441.


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## supertrooper (Jan 6, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I once sent a saw to sea level that was blowing 205 here. It was blowing 230psi there. I'm still waiting for it to puke the crank......but it hasn't yet.
> 
> Made me start taking elevation into consideration.,.....


Interesting... So compression went up roughly 12% dropping 1800 +- feet. I would have never guess it would be so drastic. Do you have a "rule of thumb" that would guesstimate rise and drop in compression based on altitude? I know air density isn't a constant but neither is engine building . What would you guess that saw would blow at 6000ft where I am at?


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## morewood (Jan 6, 2014)

Blah, Blah, Blah...send me your saw. Blah, Blah, Blah....I make it more awesomerer. Blah, Blah, Blah.....you will be happy. Blah, Blah, Blah....repeat. I figure this sums up what has happened to my four wood cutting implements. If it works keep going with it big man.

Shea


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

supertrooper said:


> Interesting... So compression went up roughly 12% dropping 1800 +- feet. I would have never guess it would be so drastic. Do you have a "rule of thumb" that would guesstimate rise and drop in compression based on altitude? I know air density isn't a constant but neither is engine building . What would you guess that saw would blow at 6000ft where I am at?



Not more than 150psi I'd bet.


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## Currently (Jan 6, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> What is wrong with it?



Shuts itself off once after about five minutes of running. Then I can burn several tankfuls with no issues. This happened the last four or five times I used the saw. 

Power seems to be less than what it was. 

Running pure gas, no alcohol. Gas station up the road is privately owned and they don't do the alcohol thing. 

Always run both saws ... 441c is just as beastly as the day I got it. The 362 OTOH seems to be going downhill. I'll drop it off when my work requires me to drive from kville to nville. 

Carb issues or a small air leak??? 

Work has got me going 50-60 hrs/wk and don't have time to fool with it. Plus I'm not that well versed in two cycle. I'm a good part replacer, not a mechanic. 

I do know the difference!


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## morewood (Jan 6, 2014)

Currently said:


> Work has got me going 50-60 hrs/wk and don't have time to fool with it. Plus I'm not that well versed in two cycle. I'm a good part replacer, not a mechanic.
> 
> I do know the difference!



That's awesome!!! There is someone other than me that is honest with themselves about their skill sets. I too can replace parts with the best of them.

Shea

PS-That's why I pay Randy to do the work. He can show all the details he wants, I know for a fact that I have not the time or ability to replicate what he does.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 6, 2014)

morewood said:


> That's awesome!!! There is someone other than me that is honest with themselves about their skill sets. I too can replace parts with the best of them.
> 
> Shea
> 
> PS-That's why I pay Randy to do the work. He can show all the details he wants, I know for a fact that I have not the time or ability to replicate what he does.



+1.


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

Currently said:


> Shuts itself off once after about five minutes of running. Then I can burn several tankfuls with no issues. This happened the last four or five times I used the saw.
> 
> Power seems to be less than what it was.
> 
> ...



If you want to send it.......just let me know. I'm pretty interested in seeing what is up with it.


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## supertrooper (Jan 6, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Not more than 150psi I'd bet.


Is that down from 185 or the 205? Just realized two saws were mentioned. Im still learning but I was beginning to wonder how you were getting so much more compression than I have been able to messing around with my junk. I knew I would have a loss at altitude but I was guessing like 10% or so from sea level. And thanks for taking the time. You have taught me a crap load!!


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

I think the going from my 1850' to your 6000' would cost us about 30psi. I also think that it's not a even loss.....in other words from here to sea level would add about that same amount because the air is so much denser. I'm just guessing though....


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## mdavlee (Jan 6, 2014)

Here's a chart to show change with elevation.

Compression Test Altitude Compensation Factors

Altitude Factor
500 0.987
1500 0.960
2500 0.933
3500 0.907
4500 0.880
5500 0.853
6500 0.826
7500 0.800
8500 0.773


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## mdavlee (Jan 6, 2014)

I know a 7900 I messed with went from 175 at 2800 ft to 190 at 1100 ft.


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## supertrooper (Jan 6, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I think the going from my 1850' to your 6000' would cost us about 30psi. I also think that it's not a even loss.....in other words from here to sea level would add about that same amount because the air is so much denser. I'm just guessing though....


Thank you sir!! Never would have guessed it be that far off. Im gonna have to get down to some thick air and feel out a modded saw. I usually only go up in elevation when going for wood. 
One thing I have never done is put a compression tester on a motor here and at lower elevation. I know on our race car we would never bother trying to tune here before a race it was a waste of time and money. Would just get to where we were going, go off of track notes and old tunes and rely on the FAST or now the BigStuff to auto correct and keep it close on test hits and dial it in from data. (yeah Im a technology kid... no reading spark plugs here)


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## supertrooper (Jan 6, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> Here's a chart to show change with elevation.
> 
> Compression Test Altitude Compensation Factors
> 
> ...


Thanks! That is something I was after. I know its not fool proof but it gives me something to think about at least.


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

So it's .027 for every 500'? 

That will help. Thanks Mike.


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## mdavlee (Jan 6, 2014)

It's the best I've found online tonight.


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## Deleted member 116684 (Jan 6, 2014)

yep. just waiting for a video.....


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## bryanr2 (Jan 6, 2014)

too dang cold for videos. Us TN'ns aint used to the temps we've dealt with today and tomorrow. I cant recall the last time it was 0/ -10 with windchill?


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## mdavlee (Jan 6, 2014)

It wasn't this cold all last winter. The winter before I remember it being cold like this for a week or so.


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

I ain't doing a damn thing outside right now....


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## Ironworker (Jan 6, 2014)

greyfox said:


> Hey Randy other than the M tronic what other differences are there between that saw and my 441.


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

Hey Numa........sorry. 

None.


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## DexterDay (Jan 6, 2014)

bryanr2 said:


> too dang cold for videos. Us TN'ns aint used to the temps we've dealt with today and tomorrow. I cant recall the last time it was 0/ -10 with windchill?



-12° outside and feels like -37 with windchill. . It's official. It's F'in cold!!


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## Currently (Jan 6, 2014)

DexterDay said:


> -12° outside and feels like -37 with windchill. . It's official. It's F'in cold!!



Yup, it's colder than my ex-mother-in-law's heart!


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## redfin (Jan 6, 2014)

Top shelf work as always Mister! I was perusing the old trading posts threads today and came across your want add for one of these.

Glad to see you got your saw.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 6, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I ain't doing a damn thing outside right now....


I know they get these temps up north but it's rediculous to have them in the SOUTH. Local news said that the most exposure a person should have right now is the walk from the house to the car. I worked out in it all day and am still thawing out. Gonna hit it again tomorrow and get it over with. Temps gonna double the high tomorrow on WED.


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## VinceGU05 (Jan 6, 2014)

Tnshaker said:


> My brother and I ran 4 ported 372's against the 441c randy did for me....2 were xtorques and 2 were OEM...all veryyyyyyy strong 372's. Let sjust say even the fastest 372 had no chance. The other 3 were not even in the same league. I never could come to terms with the handling of the 2 441c I had. I will say the one randy ported for me is the most impressive ported saw I have ran....and randy will tell u I have ran a bunch..lol. Randy does awesome work on all saws but the 441c's he does are unreal. Put a 8 pin 20" bar and no saw I have ever ran will not beat that saw with that combo.



ok... i cant take it any longer!!!!! it looks like ya gunna get another 441cm to port Randy!


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## DexterDay (Jan 6, 2014)

VinceGU05 said:


> ok... i cant take it any longer!!!!! it looks like ya gunna get another 441cm to port Randy!



X2....


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

Hey Vince.......your 461 will be going out with my shipment this week. I'll probably not be shipping till late in the week though....


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## VinceGU05 (Jan 6, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Hey Vince.......your 461 will be going out with my shipment this week. I'll probably not be shipping till late in the week though....


 awesome cool as Randy. no probs will probably take 3 to 4 weeks to get here any ways. then i can use the same box to send back the 441. looks like the box will clock up some frequent flyer points lol


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## Mastermind (Jan 6, 2014)

I have the original box...but wonder if that is a good move.....going thru customs and all.


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## VinceGU05 (Jan 7, 2014)

good question. make the box and saw look used or 2nd hand i guess.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 7, 2014)

VinceGU05 said:


> good question. make the box and saw look used or 2nd hand i guess.



You don't want to use a box with the Stihl or Husky brand on it. A plain box is best, keep the curiosity of nosy customs officials to a minimum. 

I always put "small engine parts" on the description and remove the spark plug.


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 7, 2014)

Very good advice.


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## groundup (Jan 7, 2014)

> I always put "small engine parts" on the description and remove the spark plug.



Why remove the plug?


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## Mastermind (Jan 7, 2014)

I'd say that removing the handlebar, top cover, and clutch cover would make it a "parts saw".


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## naturelover (Jan 7, 2014)

groundup said:


> Why remove the plug?



Well, cause it may accidentally start.

Unless it's a 562xp, then you can just leave the plug in it.....





















Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## Stihlalltheway (Jan 7, 2014)

Just a quick question about compression. You brought the saw up to 185lbs not broken in, correct? So I know that number will rise as it breaks in, but I thought for a good worksaw you wanted ~200lbs if its ported? I'm also a parts replacer at best, so I might be totally wrong, but other than the crank snapping, why wouldn't you raise the compression more?
Thanks,
Jack


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## Mastermind (Jan 7, 2014)

My elevation makes 185-190 about perfect for most saws.


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## wyk (Jan 16, 2014)

Bradly bump ;')


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## DexterDay (Jan 16, 2014)

He is meeting another 441C-M here directly


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## MustangMike (Jan 16, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Now here's a little trick for getting the impluse and fuel line, and the throttle cable connected.
> 
> Take this one av mount loose.
> 
> ...


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## MustangMike (Jan 17, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Now for a few more pics to illustrate the differences between this saw and a non-strato.
> 
> Randy, I think if I had seen this earlier I would not have sold my 441! Seems like you really get these things to come alive (not that they don't already run great).
> 
> MustangMike


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## joshnnh (Jul 14, 2014)

What do you use for grinders? I saw the picture but what make are they?


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## Mastermind (Jul 14, 2014)

I use a Foredom to power my handpieces. 

I use several different handpieces, the #28, #30, #44, and the CC Specialties 182MC.

I use burrs and bits ranging from fluted milling bits to diamond burrs......


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## joshnnh (Jul 15, 2014)

Thank you


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## NvBrushrat (Jul 15, 2014)

Thanks for the great info. It takes a true gentleman to share this much detailed info about his craft with a bunch of strangers. Thanks again


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## Mastermind (Jul 15, 2014)

You are welcome. 

I came here not knowing how to work on a saw at all.......it was because of those that came before me, that were willing to share their knowledge, that I was able to begin to gain an understanding of chainsaws. It seems to me that I am indebted to this site, and it's members.......so I have to give back what was freely given to me.


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## Termite (Jul 15, 2014)

Good attitude Randy.


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## joshnnh (Jul 15, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> I came here not knowing how to work on a saw at all.......it was because of those that came before me, that were willing to share their knowledge, that I was able to begin to gain an understanding of chainsaws. It seems to me that I am indebted to this site, and it's members.......so I have to give back what was freely given to me.


Seriously. That's awesome of you. I am just starting with chainsaw work. I have run them since my early teens but am just now learning to repair and make small mods. I have a basic understanding of the gas powered engine but there is so much more than I ever thought. I'm trying now to learn porting and more advanced performance mods. If you don't mind when I get in a jam or have a question can I call upon you? There is another guy named brad who has been real cool to me. And roncoin is a good guy too. Got to meet him last month and check out his collection. Quite nice. Thanks again. Josh


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## Mastermind (Jul 15, 2014)

I don't mind.......and that is the reason I have my phone number in my sig. Call anytime, if I have time to talk, I'll answer.


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## joshnnh (Jul 17, 2014)

Cool. Thank you.


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## TheWhiteLotus (Mar 8, 2020)

Question for ya....i just recently put a new piston in my 441c-m and i seem to have having issues with the throttle cable. It appears that i have it setup correctly, however, it doesnt seem to be opening up full throttle. Im pretty new to all this so i might be overlooking something. What am i missing? Thanks


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## PV Hiker (Mar 8, 2020)

Mastermind said:


> Don't forget the cable wiper.



In post #22 (page 2) shows the install. Could you have it in and is the cable sleeve the right spot? As Mike said in the other post, check both ends of the cable and sleeve that they are at the right position.


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## PV Hiker (Mar 8, 2020)

And at the handle I found a couple of images that show different mounting between 441 and the 441C. Just don't know if that makes a difference for cable sleeve length.
.
.


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