# How do you remove big wood with no crane?



## david1332 (Oct 21, 2016)

Alright guys, I have the opportunity to remove 2 big oaks. They're in a backyard, pretty far from the street, no access for equipment larger than a dingo, I think it would be too far for a crane too. How would you go about removing the big trunk wood? 
One tree is about 4 feet in diameter and the other is a little bigger. I don't have to worry about the root flare, I can leave them about 2-3 feet high. 

What's the best way to remove all that wood ???


----------



## BC WetCoast (Oct 21, 2016)

Wood dolly. If the pieces are too big for the wood dolly, they get ripped or split into smaller pieces. BF&FI method. (Brute force and ****ing ignorance).

It's one of the reasons it't called work and not fun and games at Affordable Tree


----------



## Zale (Oct 21, 2016)

Make big pieces into small pieces for the dingo. Just put enough time on the job to do it. It will take time.


----------



## david1332 (Oct 21, 2016)

I'm debating on if I should take the job or not. It's worth about $4k for both trees. But I feel like it would take me the whole week since I'm part time ( I go to college) . And I don't know if that's worth it. 

Additionally he biggest saw I have is a 441cm . Which is 71cc and can pull a 32 inch bar. Can I do the job withjust this? Or would it just be too much for it?


----------



## treesmith (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I'm debating on if I should take the job or not. It's worth about $4k for both trees. But I feel like it would take me the whole week since I'm part time ( I go to college) . And I don't know if that's worth it.
> 
> Additionally he biggest saw I have is a 441cm . Which is 71cc and can pull a 32 inch bar. Can I do the job withjust this? Or would it just be too much for it?


If you can fell the stick then you can cut it up, it'll be slow but doable

Blocking it down with a 441 would be quite an exercise


----------



## Westboastfaller (Oct 22, 2016)

Well if your parents are that rich then 4k for a part time week is a really bad deal. Perhaps discuss it with some middle class classmates for a better perspective.


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Alright guys, I have the opportunity to remove 2 big oaks. They're in a backyard, pretty far from the street, no access for equipment larger than a dingo, I think it would be too far for a crane too. How would you go about removing the big trunk wood?
> One tree is about 4 feet in diameter and the other is a little bigger. I don't have to worry about the root flare, I can leave them about 2-3 feet high.
> 
> What's the best way to remove all that wood ???


Hm 4k for fire wood than I have here some more but wood from gardens isnt always good for timber


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> Well if your parents are that rich then 4k for a part time week is a really bad deal. Perhaps discuss it with some middle class classmates for a better perspective.


What's rich? I've had a job since I was 10 and have always paid for my own stuff pretty much . 
I go to A county college that I'm paying out of pocket for and I don't even live with my parents . 
So again I ask, who is this "rich" you speak of? Lmfao


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

treesmith said:


> If you can fell the stick then you can cut it up, it'll be slow but doable
> 
> Blocking it down with a 441 would be quite an exercise


So should I use some of the money and invest in a661/660/066?


----------



## treesmith (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> So should I use some of the money and invest in a661/660/066?


Good God yes 

661


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

treesmith said:


> Good God yes
> 
> 661


How much can I get into one for? Like $600?


----------



## treesmith (Oct 22, 2016)

No idea, bro, I'm in Oz


----------



## DR. P. Proteus (Oct 22, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> Well if your parents are that rich then 4k for a part time week is a really bad deal. Perhaps discuss it with some middle class classmates for a better perspective.



Whoa now! Save that for Grouptherapysitedotcom.


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> How much can I get into one for? Like $600?




There's deals to be had. A guy on here bought a REALLY nice 066 with two bars and several chains for $400. That's not common, though. 

I paid $700 for a ported 660. You could try posting a wanted ad on here. Otherwise, a new 661s gonna run you close to 1200. Of course, you can get a 390xp for about $950 I think. Not sure what a 395 goes for. 

If you've got a $4k job lined up, I'd just go for the 661.


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

treesmith said:


> No idea, bro, I'm in Oz


Where's that?


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Where's that?



You know, Judy Garland, cowardly Lion, etc...


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Ryan'smilling said:


> You know, Judy Garland, cowardly Lion, etc...


... I'm 18..... are you talking about the wizard of oz?lol


----------



## no tree to big (Oct 22, 2016)

So how many hours do you think it would take to do the job? Is it a long drive? How many hours you gonna work per part time day? Can you get a bunch cut and hire some ***** labor to haul it out when you are at school? Have you done a tree this big before? Big cuts take a lot of time! Buy a 660 and go to town And a box of files haha. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> ... I'm 18..... are you talking about the wizard of oz?lol



Yes, I am, but I'm just funning with you. Treesmith is referring to the land down under. You know, "he just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich"...


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> So how many hours do you think it would take to do the job? Is it a long drive? How many hours you gonna work per part time day? Can you get a bunch cut and hire some ***** labor to haul it out when you are at school? Have you done a tree this big before? Big cuts take a lot of time! Buy a 660 and go to town And a box of files haha.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


It would probably take me about 30 hours at least with my limited gear and manpower to do both trees that translates to about the whole week for me ( not including the weekend). I have done big oaks before but not this big. I can fell the stems( if I remember correctly) my original proposal to him was to take down the canopy and just leave the stems, saves him money and me work. But some other tree guy came in really really low at $3300 for both trees and both stumps!! Which is crazy in my opinion. The guy wants to support local business though so I told him I could do it for $3800 and leave the stump above the root swell. If I get the job, great, if not then I probobly saved myself a headache and have room for more jobs. Thinking about it now I would much rather do 3 or four smaller trim or removal jobs and make the same amount of money in half the time. Only upside is if I get he job I have an excuse to buy a 660 from someone on AS lol


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Yes, I am, but I'm just funning with you. Treesmith is referring to the land down under. You know, "he just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich"...


Lol now you're just messing with me


----------



## Jed1124 (Oct 22, 2016)

What's the height and dbh of the tree. I grew up in the town you are in and most of the lots are 50 by 100. Are you sure you can't use a crane?


----------



## Jed1124 (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> It would probably take me about 30 hours at least with my limited gear and manpower to do both trees that translates to about the whole week for me ( not including the weekend). I have done big oaks before but not this big. I can fell the stems( if I remember correctly) my original proposal to him was to take down the canopy and just leave the stems, saves him money and me work. But some other tree guy came in really really low at $3300 for both trees and both stumps!! Which is crazy in my opinion. The guy wants to support local business though so I told him I could do it for $3800 and leave the stump above the root swell. If I get the job, great, if not then I probobly saved myself a headache and have room for more jobs. Thinking about it now I would much rather do 3 or four smaller trim or removal jobs and make the same amount of money in half the time. Only upside is if I get he job I have an excuse to buy a 660 from someone on AS lol


If somebody else is lowballing let them have it.
That being said I don't know many trees that can't be cut up with a 441.
How big of a crane and how much stick would you need if you wanted to use a crane?


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> What's the height and dbh of the tree. I grew up in the town you are in and most of the lots are 50 by 100. Are you sure you can't use a crane?


Well first off I've never used a crane before so that would disallow me from using one to begin with. But they're each about 65 feet, one is 4 ft duh and the other is a little bigger than 4.5 at dbh


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> What's the height and dbh of the tree. I grew up in the town you are in and most of the lots are 50 by 100. Are you sure you can't use a crane?


But yeah I'm pretty sure it can't be reached. The guys lot is cut awkwardly so it's right in the middle of a bunch of other yards. His lot is 100x150 and is surrounded by backyards on all sides. The trees are in the far corner of the yards. Plus even if a crane could reach it ,the picks would have to be over the neighbors house and laid in the street, I can't process all that would that fast. No way no how. So it's also a logistical issue for me.


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> If somebody else is lowballing let them have it.
> That being said I don't know many trees that can't be cut up with a 441.
> How big of a crane and how much stick would you need if you wanted to use a crane?


I have no idea about cranes, I'm assuming since the stick would have to be long I would need a very large crane, due to the weight of black oak ( 65 # per cubic foot?) and each stem stays about 4 feet the whole way up( about 20 feet on one and 25-30 on the other


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Lol now you're just messing with me




Definitely messing with you. Glad we're both having fun.

Treesmith is referring to Australia.


----------



## Jed1124 (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I have no idea about cranes, I'm assuming since the stick would have to be long I would need a very large crane, due to the weight of black oak ( 65 # per cubic foot?) and each stem stays about 4 feet the whole way up( about 20 feet on one and 25-30 on the other


Friend of mine runs 140 with the jib on a 30t.
Quote it where you need to be and don't back off. Trying to compete at this stage in the game with a lower bid is a sure fire way to lose money. 
Ask the client if they got a certificate of insurance from the competition. Got plenty of jobs like that when the bid comes in a lot lower.


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Definitely messing with you. Glad we're both having fun.
> 
> Treesmith is referring to Australia.


This is why I like AS. you guys we awesome


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> Friend of mine runs 140 with the jib on a 30t.
> Quote it where you need to be and don't back off. Trying to compete at this stage in the game with a lower bid is a sure fire way to lose money.
> Ask the client if they got a certificate of insurance from the competition. Got plenty of jobs like that when the bid comes in a lot lower.


I told him that the other company is very low in my opinion. I asked if he would provide the name of the other company so I could do some research and make sure they're insured , I told him insurance is the main thing he should be worried about, not price. Lol so the guy goes no I do not think that would professional of me to give the name of the other company. 

And the 140 would be too small I would think . The one tree is roughly 125 feet from the closest street and the other is about 150 each pick would have to clear a house or two


----------



## jefflovstrom (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> So should I use some of the money and invest in a661/660/066?



Can you handle a MS661 in a tree ? Just curious because of your questions,,,,
BTW, a 661 is more than a thousand dollars,,,,just saying,,
Jeff


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

Sorry to far away otherwise I helped you have hear some gear and not the biggest but al trees gone post next week some trees


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Can you handle a MS661 in a tree ? Just curious because of your questions,,,,
> BTW, a 661 is more than a thousand dollars,,,,just saying,,
> Jeff


I know that. I would definitely get one used not new. But I would do what I would have to do. I've used my 441with a 25" bar in the air so a 661 can't be much more


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I know that. I would definitely get one used not new. But I would do what I would have to do. I've used my 441with a 25" bar in the air so a 661 can't be much more




A 90cc saw with a 32"+ bar is a monster. I can put mine on the scale if you'd like. It's quite a bit more saw than my ms460.


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

Very strange discussion here 10:31 pm why do you yuse thosr big saws hsat a tree 4 feet dia with a 40cm blade how many trees do you have and the need for a big saw I don't have the work for it bit more work on a tree one ore 2 times a year so what


----------



## jefflovstrom (Oct 22, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Whoa now! Save that for Grouptherapysitedotcom.



Are you and I the only one's who get it?
Jeff


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

jasper nl said:


> Very strange discussion here 10:31 pm why do you yuse thosr big saws hsat a tree 4 feet dia with a 40cm blade how many trees do you have and the need for a big saw I don't have the work for it bit more work on a tree one ore 2 times a year so what


We have some huge trees over here in the us. Moreso on the west coast though. Here in the east its mainly giant live , black and pin oaks. Occasionally you'll get a big sycamore or maple.


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

david132 said:


> We have some huge trees over here in the us. Moreso on the west coast though. Here in the east its mainly giant live , black and pin oaks. Occasionally you'll get a big sycamore or maple.


ok I work In a little village called bellingwolde most of the times big old trees little space ditzum the same problem between them 25 km problem tree the call me search them on wikki
Hm ok I work I


----------



## jefflovstrom (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> It would probably take me about 30 hours at least with my limited gear and manpower to do both trees that translates to about the whole week for me ( not including the weekend). I have done big oaks before but not this big. I can fell the stems( if I remember correctly) my original proposal to him was to take down the canopy and just leave the stems, saves him money and me work. But some other tree guy came in really really low at $3300 for both trees and both stumps!! Which is crazy in my opinion. The guy wants to support local business though so I told him I could do it for $3800 and leave the stump above the root swell. If I get the job, great, if not then I probobly saved myself a headache and have room for more jobs. Thinking about it now I would much rather do 3 or four smaller trim or removal jobs and make the same amount of money in half the time. Only upside is if I get he job I have an excuse to buy a 660 from someone on AS lol





david1332 said:


> I'm debating on if I should take the job or not. It's worth about $4k for both trees. But I feel like it would take me the whole week since I'm part time ( I go to college) . And I don't know if that's worth it.
> 
> Additionally he biggest saw I have is a 441cm . Which is 71cc and can pull a 32 inch bar. Can I do the job withjust this? Or would it just be too much for it?



My opinion, walk away,,what you have described (the way I see it), 
is that I would bid it at $7,700 
you do the math,,
Jeff
BTW, do you actually get any of these job's you ask us to bid on?
Jeff


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> My opinion, walk away,,what you have described (the way I see it),
> is that I would bid it at $7,700
> you do the math,,
> Jeff
> ...


Oh yeah. I wind up not getting the bigger ones 90% of the time though lol. Which honestly doesn't bother me. I would rather do 5 $1k trees rather than 1 $5k tree


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> My opinion, walk away,,what you have described (the way I see it),
> is that I would bid it at $7,700
> you do the math,,
> Jeff
> ...


Prices are tough around me though. Company's from all over jersey do work around me. It's kinda ridiculous how saturated my area is with landscapers and tree guys. Now if they were all legit then I wouldn't have a problem. But only about 20% have insurance, proper gear and are sober with A drivers license. Pretty sad if you ask me


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

Hm


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

Most people ask what it costs its my work next to it but everyone have to reconfirm it for itselfe including insurance but most important is experience


----------



## jasper nl (Oct 22, 2016)

Look at rge pictures next week but first potatoo harvest


----------



## Jed1124 (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Prices are tough around me though. Company's from all over jersey do work around me. It's kinda ridiculous how saturated my area is with landscapers and tree guys. Now if they were all legit then I wouldn't have a problem. But only about 20% have insurance, proper gear and are sober with A drivers license. Pretty sad if you ask me


He ain't lying. And rock bottom pricing to boot. Trees are not valued in his area. Arborists are few and far between. Tree cutters are the majority. Last time I was down at my folks house they had a magnet on the fridge from a tree Co listing topping as one of there services
Not a poor area either by any means. Bad tree culture.


----------



## computeruser (Oct 22, 2016)

I have hired two big removals out of my downtown 1920-1930s neighborhood lot within the past three years. Both were crane removals. One was a huge two-stem white oak, the other a very tall cottonwood. Whole tree, in each case, was down and all the brush chipped before noon. Remaining wood stayed on site for firewood. There was no damage to landscaping or to the lawn, apart from that which I caused in cutting and splitting.

Having seen how easy and clean a job it was with a crane, I would much sooner hire one than have the tree chunked down, destroying my yard in the process and taking days to get done. In each instance, the tree company subbed out the crane to a guy in the community who is THE crane expert. I think he got $500 for 3 hours of crane time. Something to think about when bidding these jobs out.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Oct 22, 2016)




----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> He ain't lying. And rock bottom pricing to boot. Trees are not valued in his area. Arborists are few and far between. Tree cutters are the majority. Last time I was down at my folks house they had a magnet on the fridge from a tree Co listing topping as one of there services
> Not a poor area either by any means. Bad tree culture.


PREACH PREACH PREACH


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

computeruser said:


> I have hired two big removals out of my downtown 1920-1930s neighborhood lot within the past three years. Both were crane removals. One was a huge two-stem white oak, the other a very tall cottonwood. Whole tree, in each case, was down and all the brush chipped before noon. Remaining wood stayed on site for firewood. There was no damage to landscaping or to the lawn, apart from that which I caused in cutting and splitting.
> 
> Having seen how easy and clean a job it was with a crane, I would much sooner hire one than have the tree chunked down, destroying my yard in the process and taking days to get done. In each instance, the tree company subbed out the crane to a guy in the community who is THE crane expert. I think he got $500 for 3 hours of crane time. Something to think about when bidding these jobs out.


1 small problem. 
What happens when there's no access for a crane?


----------



## david1332 (Oct 22, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> He ain't lying. And rock bottom pricing to boot. Trees are not valued in his area. Arborists are few and far between. Tree cutters are the majority. Last time I was down at my folks house they had a magnet on the fridge from a tree Co listing topping as one of there services
> Not a poor area either by any means. Bad tree culture.


There's a ton of money in my area, not ritzy but there's ALOT of more than comfortable people here. The worst though are those of a certain nationality. Y'all from jersey know who I'm talking about. And believe me I am in no means racist, just a fact in my area


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> There's a ton of money in my area, not ritzy but there's ALOT of more than comfortable people here. The worst though are those of a certain nationality. Y'all from jersey know who I'm talking about. And believe me I am in no means racist, just a fact in my area




Hate to say it, but that sure sounds racist... Nothing preceded a racist statement quite like, "I'm not racist, but.."


----------



## computeruser (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> 1 small problem.
> What happens when there's no access for a crane?



Set it on an adjoining property? Use a bigger crane with more reach or a jib at a different angle from the main boom?


----------



## no tree to big (Oct 22, 2016)

Yeah let's call in a 200 ton for the **** of it just so you don't have to fix a divot or two... yeah ok I'll get right on it. Or you could go buy 20 bucks of grass seed... 

People there is a way to cut trees with out a bucket and/or crane. Sometimes you just have to man up and do it the old fashioned way. Break out the taut line, manila rope and leg irons then slip into your man suit!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## Zale (Oct 22, 2016)

After having read this whole thread and the OP's responses, I would say run from this job and don't look back. Call the client and say you are no longer interested. Given your experience and lack of equipment, I would stick to the smaller jobs. Let the bottom feeders kill each other. Your going to lose money on the job if you go out and but a 660. The key on jobs like this is to get in and get out. Cutting up logs into tiny pieces, moving them and loading them is a job killer at your pricing. Just my opinion.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Oct 22, 2016)

computeruser said:


> I have hired two big removals out of my downtown 1920-1930s neighborhood lot within the past three years. Both were crane removals. One was a huge two-stem white oak, the other a very tall cottonwood. Whole tree, in each case, was down and all the brush chipped before noon. Remaining wood stayed on site for firewood. There was no damage to landscaping or to the lawn, apart from that which I caused in cutting and splitting.
> 
> Having seen how easy and clean a job it was with a crane, I would much sooner hire one than have the tree chunked down, destroying my yard in the process and taking days to get done. In each instance, the tree company subbed out the crane to a guy in the community who is THE crane expert. I think he got $500 for 3 hours of crane time. Something to think about when bidding these jobs out.



$166/hr for a crane - CHEAP. 
It costs us $400/hr - 4 hour minimum. 
If we got those rates, we would use a crane a way more too.

Of course I can buy top soil for $35/yd and grass seed for $10. We arent talking Augusta National although way too many people think their lawns are on par (get it get it)


----------



## BC WetCoast (Oct 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Prices are tough around me though. Company's from all over jersey do work around me. It's kinda ridiculous how saturated my area is with landscapers and tree guys. Now if they were all legit then I wouldn't have a problem. But only about 20% have insurance, proper gear and are sober with A drivers license. Pretty sad if you ask me



The tree biz is difficult and highly competitive everywhere. Talk to Sunrise Guy to see what it's like in Texas where he's competing against the new immigrants. The biz has a low barrier to entry, hence lots of competition and low prices. The key is to find a specialty niche. Check out Marquis Tree north of you, big wood removal specialists. 

If the competition isn't legit and it really bothers you, rat them out.


----------



## david1332 (Oct 23, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> Yeah let's call in a 200 ton for the **** of it just so you don't have to fix a divot or two... yeah ok I'll get right on it. Or you could go buy 20 bucks of grass seed...
> 
> People there is a way to cut trees with out a bucket and/or crane. Sometimes you just have to man up and do it the old fashioned way. Break out the taut line, manila rope and leg irons then slip into your man suit!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


That's one of the best replies yet lol


----------



## david1332 (Oct 23, 2016)

Zale said:


> After having read this whole thread and the OP's responses, I would say run from this job and don't look back. Call the client and say you are no longer interested. Given your experience and lack of equipment, I would stick to the smaller jobs. Let the bottom feeders kill each other. Your going to lose money on the job if you go out and but a 660. The key on jobs like this is to get in and get out. Cutting up logs into tiny pieces, moving them and loading them is a job killer at your pricing. Just my opinion.


I told the guy I would only be interested in the job for $4k and if I left the trunk wood cut up on site in 18 inch firewood size logs. 
Doubt I'll get it. But hey I don't think I would use the 660 much anyway after this


----------



## no tree to big (Oct 23, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I told the guy I would only be interested in the job for $4k and if I left the trunk wood cut up on site in 18 inch firewood size logs.
> Doubt I'll get it. But hey I don't think I would use the 660 much anyway after this


Well that changes the whole game. Does it still stake u all week or was that if you did haul it all out? 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


----------



## david1332 (Oct 23, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> Well that changes the whole game. Does it still stake u all week or was that if you did haul it all out?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


It would only take all week if I haul it all out.


----------



## benjo75 (Oct 23, 2016)

If the customer comes up with a cheaper bid I say have a nice day and I walk away. The tight wads aren't my target customer. I have recently gone way up on my prices for the oversize trees. The other tree services around here have trouble handling them so I have been getting a steady stream of 7 and 8 ft oaks. And plenty of the tall dead trees that aren't safe to climb and the competition's buckets can't reach. So I charge more than I used to for them. I loose a few and the ones I miss usually stand there until they fall on their own. The ones I get I do with a smile. There's nothing I hate worse than a full day of cutting with the 660 and 36" bar and two gallons of gas.


----------



## acer-kid (Oct 23, 2016)

Ryan'smilling said:


> sure sounds racist... Nothing preceded a racist statement quite like, "I'm not racist, but.."




"No one has more respect for women than me."


----------



## treesmith (Oct 23, 2016)

benjo75 said:


> If the customer comes up with a cheaper bid I say have a nice day and I walk away. The tight wads aren't my target customer. I have recently gone way up on my prices for the oversize trees. The other tree services around here have trouble handling them so I have been getting a steady stream of 7 and 8 ft oaks. And plenty of the tall dead trees that aren't safe to climb and the competition's buckets can't reach. So I charge more than I used to for them. I loose a few and the ones I miss usually stand there until they fall on their own. The ones I get I do with a smile. There's nothing I hate worse than a full day of cutting with the 660 and 36" bar and two gallons of gas.


It helps to be making good money on it


----------

