# help with tree



## oifla (Sep 21, 2010)

hello all

really love this maple (i'm pretty sure) tree and i think there may be something wrong with it. here are the pics

it's not too obvious in the pics but a good section of the top tier branches are dead and have been falling every now and then. i don't know what the problem is but the bark on some of those (now dead) branches seems to be peeling off in sections, not sure if that is cause or effect / before or after the death of the branch. i also took some shots of a section at the base where the bark seems to be falling off and closeups of some stuff growing on it. i haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary beyond that (insects, etc.)

i would appreciate any advice you all might have on this. as i said we really love this tree and want to anticipate / resolve any problems it might be having before its too late


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## Urban Forester (Sep 21, 2010)

The tree appears to be a sugar maple (?). 2 of the pictures show what appears to be a rather significant girdling root (see this link: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1139.html) on one side of the tree. This has restricted sugar/carbohydrates to the root resulting in root decline. I would also suspect that it is now also affecting water flow up the tree. I don't believe surgical removal would benefit the tree, due to the size of the root and the fact that "resurgence" of girdling roots on a tree like this is very high. With the shadows its hard to tell but there appears to be a large frost crack (or lightening strike) on one side and very possible decay evident. I believe that the overall health of this tree is low. I would not recommend fertilization as "growth" would increase the pressure point, further stressing the tree. I do however recommend that you water it once a week in absence of significant natural rainfall for the rest of the growing season (end of Oct.) I would wait until next spring to make a final determination, because of the stressful summer we've had, but you may end up taking this tree down.


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## treeseer (Sep 22, 2010)

2 of the pictures show what appears to be a rather significant girdling root (see this link: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1139.html) on one side of the tree. This has restricted sugar/carbohydrates to the root resulting in root decline.

& that link is waaaaay outdated and misleading.

I would also suspect that it is now also affecting water flow up the tree. I don't believe surgical removal would benefit the tree, due to the size of the root and the fact that "resurgence" of girdling roots on a tree like this is very high. 

& resurgence is zero if left exposed. the whole root crown needs to be exposed--there are more sgr's down there. Search other threads on girdling roots here--much more uptodate info available.

this is the best time of year to prune roots. Hire an arborist!


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## oifla (Sep 24, 2010)

treeseer said:


> this is the best time of year to prune roots. Hire an arborist!



i wish we could but graduate student incomes do not leave much room for 'extras'. i will read around and see what i can do, hopefully it will be enough to save the maple because it's a great tree. thanks


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## Ed Roland (Sep 24, 2010)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=132111&highlight=girdling+root&page=2

Post #23 and beyond shows what a novice can do. 

then try this resource for proper care
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/treecareinfo.aspx

better than nothing.

I have removed a girdling root from a mature Norway maple one fourth the diameter of the trunk. The tree responded with a sigh of relief.


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## treeseer (Sep 24, 2010)

No spit; that Nate is a born arborist. 

so take a trowel and hose and expose and prune the stem girdling roots, or at least send pics and we will draw the lines for ya right ed?

btw UrbanF might be right about overall prognosis, but all we are saaying, is give trees a chance!


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## S Mc (Sep 25, 2010)

Oifla, 

I find it interesting that the girdling root is on the side with a root flair; there is no root flair on the opposite side. Also, how is the scar at the base of the tree oriented to the die back on the top of the crown? The photos show the die back primarily on the right side, but I can't tell where the injury at the base is in relation to that.

The "stuff" growing on the trunk (second to last photo) appears to just be lichen...no problem.

The bark falling off of the older, dead branches is just the natural dessication/decay process and not necessarily helpful, in and of itself, in diagnosing what is going on here. Can you take a picture of one of these limbs for us to see if there is any perennial canker activity going on? Perhaps get a shot of where the die back and live limb tissue meet?

Can you take another picture that shows more of the orientation of the old injury with the newer bark sloughing just above and to the left of it (last photo)? I can't tell what is going on there. 

How old is this tree and how old is the subdivision? 


Sylvia


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## oifla (Sep 25, 2010)

thank you all for your help. 

i worked on clearing some of the top soil adjacent to the tree today and i posted better pics (with indications as to what view each corresponds: i.e. south, west, etc.). 

i'm hoping these will help you all help me with this tree. i climbed way up high today to drop the dead branches and it is such a fantastic tree, we'd really hate to loose it. as always, whatever advice you all might have would be greatly appreciated. 

thank you


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## S Mc (Sep 25, 2010)

Oifla, I don't think girdling roots are the main issue here. Your tree has sustained major mechanical damage. The lower trunk actually looks of a lesser diameter than the section above the injury. The damage is significant. This tree has had several large, lower limbs removed in the past.

And is that a septic or sewer cleanout I see in photo 11? This, if I am correct, is on the side with no root flair. What underground infrastructure is in this lawn near this tree? And when was it put in relative to the age of the tree?

From the photos so far, I would recommend removing the deadwood (which you have done) and making sure that this tree suffers NO further mechanical injury, that no heavy equipment is allowed to drive over the root system. Now that you have the root flair exposed, I would apply a 2 to 4" layer of mulch. Do not mound the mulch against the trunk. It will start a little ways away. Keep the grass as far away from this tree as possible, preferrably all the way out to the drip line.

Proper irrigation in lieu of natural rainfall will be important. That means not too much, not too little. Do not fertilize. This tree has suffered a large injury, but is not gone yet. 

Sylvia


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## treeseer (Sep 26, 2010)

:agree2: with sylvia on everything but is ti just a coincidence that a lot of the dead portion of the stem seems to be right above the biggest girdling root?

fyi you cleared away a lot of soil unnecessarily and added to the tree's stress by removing soil so far away from the trunk. 

how much of the trunk is dead and how is the tree responding, these seem to be the critical questions. i tend to remove dead bark so borers do not get busy under it.


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## Ed Roland (Sep 26, 2010)

S Mc said:


> Oifla, I don't think girdling roots are the main issue here. Your tree has sustained major mechanical damage.
> Sylvia



After viewing the updated pics i think years old mechanical damage is likely, but the elephant in the room at the moment are the girdling roots. 
Reasoning mechanical damage as the cause of decline here is to accept the fourth dimension of the disease triangle (time). Private joke 

Oifla, It's my opinion that the girdling roots HAVE to go. Once removed I would then follow Sylvia's advice - to the tee.


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## treeseer (Sep 26, 2010)

i agree with 2 of ed's red lines, but do not see where the lower one (recently wounded) is girdling the stem, so why cut it?


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## Ed Roland (Sep 26, 2010)

My interpretation of the root path from the photo has it poised to constrict, If not already. The diameter of what we see would be atypical to have been originated from the buttress so i assume it wraps around. More soil should be removed to find the answer. Go slow and be careful not to damage roots.


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## treeseer (Sep 27, 2010)

Ed Roland said:


> More soil should be removed to find the answer. Go slow and be careful not to damage roots.


Probably, unless it is below the flare, which is often a stopping point. On stressed and mature trees, circling roots may be better kept, until condition improves.


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## Josh A. (Oct 21, 2010)

I don't think that the roots are posing the major problems to this tree. It may very well be part of a collection of problems. I agree that the mechanical injury is a major problem. 
You are in central Indiana? Do they use salt on the roads in the winter there. The tree is in close proximity to the road. If the road commission uses salt, your tree is well within the area that melting road snow (mixed with salt) can reach. Salt in high enough concentrations will significantly reduce the uptake of water. 
It is important to note that the trees take their water up from the ground transport it through their conductive tissue (the thin line that crates the "rings") It is the *ONLY* living part of the trunk and stems. The inner heartwood is dead. Same for the bark. Trees do not take water up any other part of the trunk. Trees do not take water up through their leaves; they lose water through them. 
First thing you need to do is put the dirt back around the tree if you have not already. Maples are very sensitive to negative grade change. I would (if the roads are salted in your area) flush the ground from the trunk out to an area approximately equal to the tree's canopy. This will flush, or leach, the salt down in the soil and out of the root zone.
Concentrate on the outer diameter more than the area around the trunk. This is where the majority of the root hairs are located. (Think of the roots and root hairs like leaves and stems. Leaves are primarily located on the ends of branches where they can take in the most light. Bigger stems and branches do not have much capacity to take in sunlight. As for the roots, the small roots have the best ability to take up water and nutrients, and the bigger roots are primarily used for storage. )
I would however, recommend fertilizing the tree in late winter/early spring. Flush the soil again with water, and apply a dry fertilizer at the appropriate rates approx 12" below the soil line. Do this by boring small diameter holes into the ground in a even pattern. Then apply fert evenly under the canopy and brush in. There are directions online on how to do this. 

The last thing I would try, if nothing else works and you still want to save the tree, is a bridge graft. This takes smaller stems from the tree and grafts them below, and then above the damaged and diseased tissue. This allows the tree to "by-pass" the damaged area and transport nutrients up the trunk. This is a last resort effort done by a professional. It's success rate is limited.

I do not mean to over-explain, or offend anyone with my explanations, but if you understand better how the tree works, you can understand better how to help it. 

Best of luck!


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