# What are you guys doing per day??



## alpineman (Dec 23, 2010)

I am looking to make some new goals for this year and I was wondering what you guys are doing per day during the normal season. We were doing about $1800-$2200 per day this year. That is for Denver(we used to do about $2500 a day back on the east coast). I don't know how much more I can push out of my single crew. Any thoughts...


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## ducaticorse (Dec 23, 2010)

alpineman said:


> I am looking to make some new goals for this year and I was wondering what you guys are doing per day during the normal season. We were doing about $1800-$2200 per day this year. That is for Denver(we used to do about $2500 a day back on the east coast). I don't know how much more I can push out of my single crew. Any thoughts...



You get what your competition is getting. Around Boston my mark is $1800 a day, thats with 3-4 guys a forrestry truck and chipper. I bought a log truck and another chip truck and I'm not planning on raising rates this year. 

I guess you need to look at your schedule, and if it's full, and you're turning jobs down, you can raise at say 15% and see if you can maintain your full schedule.


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## mpatch (Dec 23, 2010)

I work in the same market (front range of Colorado) as you and target is $72 a man hour.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 23, 2010)

mpatch said:


> I work in the same market (front range of Colorado) as you and target is $72 a man hour.



what equipment do you include with that hourly rate.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 24, 2010)

It's difficult to assess what a crew should be making in a day w/out knowing their skill level and equipment available to them. Earlier this year Eric and I were shooting for a grand a day. As we've gotten better at working together and with the addition of our mini we now try to hit $1500 a day. Some days we only make a grand, some days we make $2500. Our best day this season was $3K. This is just 2 guys, 17 yard chip truck, 12 inch chipper, mini skid, 1 ton and trailer. With the addition of a small crane, bucket truck OR another guy I will up our goal to at least $2K a day.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 24, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> It's difficult to assess what a crew should be making in a day w/out knowing their skill level and equipment available to them. Earlier this year Eric and I were shooting for a grand a day. As we've gotten better at working together and with the addition of our mini we now try to hit $1500 a day. Some days we only make a grand, some days we make $2500. Our best day this season was $3K. This is just 2 guys, 17 yard chip truck, 12 inch chipper, mini skid, 1 ton and trailer. With the addition of a small crane, bucket truck OR another guy I will up our goal to at least $2K a day.



Of course this depends on how many hours your days are, for a 15 hour day then $1500 is only $50 per hour per man (including equipment)... for a 7.5 hour day it is $100 per hour per man.. Issue always is you get paid for hours onsite -- and pay men for whole day. Of course if like me you bid for the job, and not per hour.


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## mpatch (Dec 24, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> what equipment do you include with that hourly rate.



Whatever is needed to complete the job. Crane fees are extra.


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## TreeAce (Dec 24, 2010)

Can anyone working in the Northern Ohio (Cleveland burbs) area tell me if they TYPICALLY get these kinda prices these guys are talkn?? Because I can't get it. Sometimes people even show me bids (I never ask!) of competion and I mean wtf!! I find it hard to get more than 800 a day for me n 2 guys with truck n chipper. (no bucket truck). I think this area I live in is more depressed than I ever realized. I get alot of word of mouth work also and I KNOW i have darn near 100% happy customers.


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## lxt (Dec 24, 2010)

TreeAce said:


> Can anyone working in the Northern Ohio (Cleveland burbs) area tell me if they TYPICALLY get these kinda prices these guys are talkn?? Because I can't get it. Sometimes people even show me bids (I never ask!) of competion and I mean wtf!! I find it hard to get more than 800 a day for me n 2 guys with truck n chipper. (no bucket truck). I think this area I live in is more depressed than I ever realized. I get alot of word of mouth work also and I KNOW i have darn near 100% happy customers.




Your area is close to mine in PA (pittsburgh area) I see some of these guys talking $1500 - $2500 a day & Im like you.......HOW? if I pull $100 an hour im doing good.....$800 a day, its a fluke & Im dam lucky to get jobs were I make what they are making!! I guess they live at the other end of the rainbow (where the pot of gold is) Ive seen what you are saying too: the home owner will show me 2-3 other bids for $400 dollars when im at $800, of course these are the pickup truck non legit types.

But hey........thats what the market dictates, this is why I get upset sometimes when I see someone in a station wagon with a dump trailer attached to it doing tree work! these are the ones bringing the trade down! I make less now than I did back in the early 90`s. Go figure!



LXT....................


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## tree MDS (Dec 24, 2010)

lxt said:


> Your area is close to mine in PA (pittsburgh area) I see some of these guys talking $1500 - $2500 a day & Im like you.......HOW? if I pull $100 an hour im doing good.....$800 a day, its a fluke & Im dam lucky to get jobs were I make what they are making!! I guess they live at the other end of the rainbow (where the pot of gold is) Ive seen what you are saying too: the home owner will show me 2-3 other bids for $400 dollars when im at $800, of course these are the pickup truck non legit types.
> 
> But hey........thats what the market dictates, this is why I get upset sometimes when I see someone in a station wagon with a dump trailer attached to it doing tree work! these are the ones bringing the trade down! I make less now than I did back in the early 90`s. Go figure!
> 
> ...



Jeezus.. I guess they don't call it pittsburg for nothing!

I was at $800 ten years ago. I might have to go back to it by the looks of things lately though.. really show those bastards.. get them trucks out there rolling! lol.


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## lxt (Dec 24, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> Maybe you ought to hit the double rainbow!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI&feature=related
> 
> ...



LOL, I couldnt even watch that......I thought he was gonna climax over the thing!!!


LXT..........


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 24, 2010)

mpatch said:


> Whatever is needed to complete the job. Crane fees are extra.



Well, I can not image how anybody can put a bucket truck, chipper and a couple of men out in the field for less than $1500-2000 per day -- preferably on the higher end of that.. as a minimum. If you get more then great. Somehow you gotta pay for the insurance, maintenance and eventual replacement of that gear - not to mention the saws, gas, etc..etc..

For anything less, sorry the truck stays parked and the wheels don't turn. Now I will admit I used to make more 3-4 years ago than I do today, but there are a lot of other circumstances that impact that as well (I was in different area geographically, had different clientele, was well known in area and well established).. I moved to a new area for family reasons.. and it is not quite the same. But it will come.


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## IcePick (Dec 24, 2010)

In the summer our crew was averaging $3500 a day, plus we had one guy doing an extra grand, at least, in plant health care.


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## ducaticorse (Dec 24, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Well, I can not image how anybody can put a bucket truck, chipper and a couple of men out in the field for less than $1500-2000 per day -- preferably on the higher end of that.. as a minimum. If you get more then great. Somehow you gotta pay for the insurance, maintenance and eventual replacement of that gear - not to mention the saws, gas, etc..etc..
> 
> 
> 
> YUP


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 25, 2010)

TreeAce said:


> Can anyone working in the Northern Ohio (Cleveland burbs) area tell me if they TYPICALLY get these kinda prices these guys are talkn?? Because I can't get it. Sometimes people even show me bids (I never ask!) of competion and I mean wtf!! I find it hard to get more than 800 a day for me n 2 guys with truck n chipper. (no bucket truck). I think this area I live in is more depressed than I ever realized. I get alot of word of mouth work also and I KNOW i have darn near 100% happy customers.



If you've been on this forum for a good while, you come to understand that so many just blow smoke, on here. They post these rates and/or make statements like, "Man, I'm only getting $4000 per day, now, and I can't keep making ends meet if this keeps up!" Knock a zero off, and you might be close to the actual $$ these guys are taking in, daily. Just figure it out, and you'll arrive at more truthful figures. Sure, some days you might pull in $3-5 G's, but daily? Not unless you're in on the Big O / Big Green sweetheart contracts with municipalities and their surrounding utilities. I have pm'd some of the guys posting larger daily takes, and when you start questioning them with prosecuting attorney type interrogatives, they knuckle under and/or end up telling me that they can't discuss particulars. That's because they are true bs artists up until they can't keep pumping it out. One guy, one of the more truthful fellows on here, openly admitted to me that he posted highly inflated figures just to intimidate others on here. With that in mind, take some/most of the posted figures in here as the output of blowhards and little else.


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## IcePick (Dec 25, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> If you've been on this forum for a good while, you come to understand that so many just blow smoke, on here. They post these rates and/or make statements like, "Man, I'm only getting $4000 per day, now, and I can't keep making ends meet if this keeps up!" Knock a zero off, and you might be close to the actual $$ these guys are taking in, daily. Just figure it out, and you'll arrive at more truthful figures. Sure, some days you might pull in $3-5 G's, but daily? Not unless you're in on the Big O / Big Green sweetheart contracts with municipalities and their surrounding utilities. I have pm'd some of the guys posting larger daily takes, and when you start questioning them with prosecuting attorney type interrogatives, they knuckle under and/or end up telling me that they can't discuss particulars. That's because they are true bs artists up until they can't keep pumping it out. One guy, one of the more truthful fellows on here, openly admitted to me that he posted highly inflated figures just to intimidate others on here. With that in mind, take some/most of the posted figures in here as the output of blowhards and little else.



Jealous much?


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## alpineman (Dec 25, 2010)

The question of equipment is definitely a relevant question. We run a 22 yard chip truck, a vermeer 1500 and 3-4 guys depending on the type of job(trimming vs. removal) I might send a truck and trailer for wood on a large removal. One guy mentioned $75 per man per hour and that has always seemed to be a good target. We only plan on working 8-10 hours a day max! It definitely depends on location. My father in law lives outside of Nashville and he can buy a nice house for $125K. It seems like most of the well known companies are looking for that $1500-$2500 range on a daily basis. Obviously you guys out east can get more possibly as you do more of the huge removals! I agree with previous post wondering how you guys can work for $1000 or less day. How do you even pay the bills??


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## TreeAce (Dec 25, 2010)

IcePick said:


> Jealous much?



I dont think Sunrise Guy is jealous. But I can tell u that u won't make those big bucks around here. I guarentee it. How do I get by n pay my bills?? By staying under the radar as much as I can. What blows my mind is a few of the better companies near me that will bring in a crane a bucket a large chip truck and a big azs chipper with 5 guys for 2000$. Believe That. O ya n don't forget a guy will b by later in the afternoon with a 1102 n blast the stumps out. What I gotta do is get all the jobs that that big equipment cant use its full potential on. Back yard take downs outa crane reach and dead wooding large oaks are good jobs for me.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

This is getting interesting!
Jeff


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 25, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> This is getting interesting!
> Jeff



Yup..

The other thing to take into consideration is:

Average wage in the area, some areas have higher wage earners.. and consequently the cost of everything in area usually reflects that. Even equipmetn costs more (The GRCS as an example if purchased from Sherrill Tree Canada cost nearly $1,000 more than the one advertised on the US sites. Go figure.. So guess where I bought mine.. still cheaper after shipping, duty, etc). 

Taxes.. fuel costs.. etc.

Where we are - if I am not mistaken - the average wage and cost of things are higher than most in the U.S. - as are the taxes I think. So.. we may end up charging more on a job of similar size. BUT.. at the end of the day after all is said and done.. we may not have any more to buy food or anything else considering costs, etc.

It is difficult to compare simply a dollar figure and come out with the same end result on what anybody is actually making profit wise (or maybe I am wrong but don't think so).

The tough ones are always the guys with pickup truck and chain saw.. working for a few hundred a day. This drives anybody who is serious into the larger equipment -- so they can then bid on and work on jobs out of league of these other guys. Unfortunate as they take all the easy jobs.. but that is life. (at least around here)


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

Mine is based on a percentage. Works good for me.
Jeff


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## treemandan (Dec 25, 2010)

lxt said:


> LOL, I couldnt even watch that......I thought he was gonna climax over the thing!!!
> 
> 
> LXT..........



yeah, I thought TreeCo inadvertantly posted some of his gay ####.

O I love to hear the talk of " how much per day". Ain't that right fellas? Duti? Right? 
Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.


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## ducaticorse (Dec 25, 2010)

treemandan said:


> yeah, I thought TreeCo inadvertantly posted some of his gay ####.
> 
> O I love to hear the talk of " how much per day". Ain't that right fellas? Duti? Right?
> Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.



Dan, if you want to run a full time 3 plus person crew with full insurance, and multiple pieces of heavy equipment, then you need to have an idea as to what you need to make on the hated "day rate". You must know that, so why does it bother you so much?

I work in and around Boston. I have storage bills, tolls, DOT to deal with on a regular basis. You can't work around here without some type of financial plan in place. I fail to understand why setting a number as a goal to gross daily is such an odd/terrible concept to you.

There is a big difference between doing business successfully, and climbing trees. Just because you're an ace at one, doesn't mean you are at the other. Certain individuals on this board have the ability to perform both at the same time, some obviously don't. 

And PS, I have the photos of the big commercial removal job I just contracted if you'd like to see them....


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## treemandan (Dec 26, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Dan, if you want to run a full time 3 plus person crew with full insurance, and multiple pieces of heavy equipment, then you need to have an idea as to what you need to make on the hated "day rate". You must know that, so why does it bother you so much?
> 
> I work in and around Boston. I have storage bills, tolls, DOT to deal with on a regular basis. You can't work around here without some type of financial plan in place. I fail to understand why setting a number as a goal to gross daily is such an odd/terrible concept to you.
> 
> ...



You bet yor ass I want to see them! And what it is about the rate quandary is the same thing I find so amusing about the " how much wood is in a cord " conundrum that has been around since the dawn of time.
Grasshopper ( Duticourse), I was the first to answer this question for you when you asked it. Now all you must to is be able to understand my answer and then you will be on your way to becoming a master.
This is one of the better threads on this topic. Blakes made some great general points and combine them with what Sunrise thinks along with other realities it disrupts the spreadsheet program on Windows plus the question is so God dam " :newbie: " I guess everytime I hear it asked I get annoyed and want to see why it was asked.
Funny, I just charge what its worth and I am getting all that I can.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2010)

treemandan said:


> You bet yor ass I want to see them! And what it is about the rate quandary is the same thing I find so amusing about the " how much wood is in a cord " conundrum that has been around since the dawn of time.
> Grasshopper ( Duticourse), I was the first to answer this question for you when you asked it. Now all you must to is be able to understand my answer and then you will be on your way to becoming a master.
> This is one of the better threads on this topic. Blakes made some great general points and combine them with what Sunrise thinks along with other realities it disrupts the spreadsheet program on Windows plus the question is so God dam " :newbie: " I guess everytime I hear it asked I get annoyed and want to see why it was asked.
> Funny, I just charge what its worth and I am getting all that I can.



Seems a bit an arcanum response!
Jeff


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

treemandan said:


> You bet yor ass I want to see them! And what it is about the rate quandary is the same thing I find so amusing about the " how much wood is in a cord " conundrum that has been around since the dawn of time.
> Grasshopper ( Duticourse), I was the first to answer this question for you when you asked it. Now all you must to is be able to understand my answer and then you will be on your way to becoming a master.
> This is one of the better threads on this topic. Blakes made some great general points and combine them with what Sunrise thinks along with other realities it disrupts the program on Windows plus the question is so God dam " :newbie: " I guess everytime I hear it asked I get annoyed and want to see why it was asked.
> Funny, I just charge what its worth and I am getting all that I can.



Send me your email, I'll send them to you now. You're welcome to post them here, I just can't resize them to fit. I have a new camera, and haven't figured out the software yet.


AND, if you want to run a business, you need to know what you need to make. Throwing out a random number with no reasoning as to how you came up with it is foolish. When I asked, I was just wondering what others were getting.

I own my equipment, no payments. My numbers should be a bit less than someone who has payments on theirs. My rates are based on bodies, equipment, and time on the job. Sometimes I charge less for big huge trees that are tit, sometimes I charge more for for tiny trees that are difficult. Bottom line is, that I price them according to how much time out of my day, or days they take up. And that number now is $1800 a day. It's a reference point, and it works wl in my area. I am constantly just a tick below my competitors as long as they are legit, and not CL bandits whores.


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Seems a bit an arcanum response!
> Jeff



Yeah, he said "grasshopper" in reference to my "newbism" on this board, so I guess in a way it was....


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 26, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> If you've been on this forum for a good while, you come to understand that so many just blow smoke, on here. They post these rates and/or make statements like, "Man, I'm only getting $4000 per day, now, and I can't keep making ends meet if this keeps up!" Knock a zero off, and you might be close to the actual $$ these guys are taking in, daily. Just figure it out, and you'll arrive at more truthful figures. Sure, some days you might pull in $3-5 G's, but daily? Not unless you're in on the Big O / Big Green sweetheart contracts with municipalities and their surrounding utilities. I have pm'd some of the guys posting larger daily takes, and when you start questioning them with prosecuting attorney type interrogatives, they knuckle under and/or end up telling me that they can't discuss particulars. That's because they are true bs artists up until they can't keep pumping it out. One guy, one of the more truthful fellows on here, openly admitted to me that he posted highly inflated figures just to intimidate others on here. With that in mind, take some/most of the posted figures in here as the output of blowhards and little else.



:agree2:
I have a goal that I like to hit everyday, but I don't. Some days are awesome while others suck. Not so much worried about the daily as I am the month. You get into some jobs and something happens that slows ya down, profit goes down, other days, things couldn't go any better, makin da do! So I average my days over a month, have a set goal for net profit, if I hit that, then I am good. I have had $4000 days and $400 days. I am a small op, me and 2-3 guys, we go as hard as we can, make as much as we can.
One day I made 4g's in 4 hours! Couldn't believe it, I was SO HAPPY! Next day we got a skidloader stuck, and paid 3 guys a full day to get it out. Didn't hit any goal that day!


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## bushinspector (Dec 26, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> :agree2:
> I have a goal that I like to hit everyday, but I don't. Some days are awesome while others suck. Not so much worried about the daily as I am the month. You get into some jobs and something happens that slows ya down, profit goes down, other days, things couldn't go any better, makin da do! So I average my days over a month, have a set goal for net profit, if I hit that, then I am good. I have had $4000 days and $400 days. I am a small op, me and 2-3 guys, we go as hard as we can, make as much as we can.
> One day I made 4g's in 4 hours! Couldn't believe it, I was SO HAPPY! Next day we got a skidloader stuck, and paid 3 guys a full day to get it out. Didn't hit any goal that day!



And I hope I never get our skid stuck THAT bad!!!!


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## TreeAce (Dec 26, 2010)

Seems to me that the amount I need to make in a day is the most I can get. And like sgreanbean I think the bottom line is at the end of the month. Or even year assuming u always had your head above water enough to pay bills. Of course I have a daily amount in mind , a mere 800 seems to be all the local population will do around here. Give or TAKE. Keep in mind I only run a chipper truck/12 inch chipper, f-450 dump w/trailer n a carlton 2300 stumper. I have nice saws n other misc tools. 2 sometimes 3 guys with me. Of corse that # goes up with bigger n better equipment .The tree is still worth the same just gets done faster. But when people talk 2 guys 2000$ all I have to say is "Not here buddy...u WILL starve!"


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 26, 2010)

IcePick said:


> Jealous much?



I'm not even remotely jealous of the blowhard liars, in here, who post absurd daily income figures. If anyone wants to post their yearly NET, after all expenses, THAT I'm interested in, and might even actually be jealous of. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be jealous. In fact, I'd write those fellows/gals and ask them how they built up their business, how they solicit for new business, how they maintain payroll, how they train new employees and retain the same, how large their client base is, how much they kick back to the proper authorities to keep ahead of their more honest competition, how hard they #$%^ up to those same authorities to get their gigs, etc., etc.

Yeah, there just might be some jealousy in me if I believed the figures I read in those posts. I suppose you might be able to make better bucks in an area free of those who don't have any of the expenses we all have as law-abiding workers. Still, unless you're the only show in a town where you have all the business you want, there's no way you're pulling in the goofy daily averages cited.


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## ctrees4$ (Dec 26, 2010)

Everyone thinks that with more equipment you get a bigger price but if you do the math you will see or you can read this and I will spell it out for ya.

It is not about how much you make in a day,month or even a year...it is how much you PROFIT! You guys climbing trees and running a chipper are charging lets say $200 less than a man with a bucket and chipper.You have less overhead so more goes in your pocket,shure it may take alittle longer and time is money but at the end of the day you put more money in your pocket than the guy with all the equipment.
Equipment makes the job easier and faster but you tag,tax,insure,and maintain every year.
I am small time compared to some ( Just me and my wife ) but we have 2 bucket trucks,chipper truck,chipper,crane,dump truck,bobcat,stump grinder,and 3 trailers.With that much equipment a $1500 day is a GREAT day for me but will see many $500 to $800 days.


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## treemandan (Dec 26, 2010)

The mystery is unfolding. Got some real good points and veiws for once on the take. I appreciate some fellas seeing it how I see it.


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

treemandan said:


> The mystery is unfolding. Got some real good points and veiws for once on the take. I appreciate some fellas seeing it how I see it.



Me too. I'm gonna cut my rates in half after reading this and doing some heavy thinking.. I should be able to get twice as much work that way!!


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

treemandan said:


> The mystery is unfolding. Got some real good points and veiws for once on the take. I appreciate some fellas seeing it how I see it.



You wanna see those pics or not?


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> You wanna see those pics or not?



Yeah, come on dano, get hot with the pic resizing for yer boy ducatti there. We got twelve to twenty inches of snow just starting. I need some entertainment!


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah, come on dano, get hot with the pic resizing for yer boy ducatti there. We got twelve to twenty inches of snow just starting. I need some entertainment!



LOL, I'm sitting here on the Water in Nahant at the Tides watching the Pats waiting for this supposed storm to pop off!


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> LOL, I'm sitting here on the Water in Nahant at the Tides watching the Pats waiting for this supposed storm to pop off!



How much you guys supposed to get up there?

Went to pull the damn tractor in the shop, so I could do the yard here when its over.. friggin hyd. line for the steering went. Fancy line with metal ends and flat faced O-rings, not something you can just run out to any parts store for. Thankfully I got a buddy with a plow anyway..

Every whack job in the entire northwest corner is out at the supermarkets and flooding the gas stations. Everybody seems to have these annoying little gas cans their filling up, like its ####ing snowmageddon coming or some ####.. baah! at least christmas is over anyway!


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Jeezus.. I guess they don't call it pittsburg for nothing!
> 
> I was at $800 ten years ago. I might have to go back to it by the looks of things lately though.. really show those bastards.. get them trucks out there rolling! lol.



I feel good if I can bring in $1000 a day after crew costs. $2k is probably the best I've ever done in a day (after paying the crew). But that was exceptional.

But it goes both ways. In my current job I've been paid $1400 but crew pay out so far is over a grand. And the main tree still stands! I'm going to tackle it this week but will probably lose money on it after all costs are figured out. I'll get another $1200 when I finish this one, but all the costs will wipe most if not all of that out:


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> How much you guys supposed to get up there?
> 
> Went to pull the damn tractor in the shop, so I could do the yard here when its over.. friggin hyd. line for the steering went. Fancy line with metal ends and flat faced O-rings, not something you can just run out to any parts store for. Thankfully I got a buddy with a plow anyway..
> 
> Every whack job in the entire northwest corner is out at the supermarkets and flooding the gas stations. Everybody seems to have these annoying little gas cans their filling up, like its ####ing snowmageddon coming or some ####.. baah! at least christmas is over anyway!



Calling for 18 inches give or take. Coast is gonna get brutalized. Check and see if there are any hydro shops open for the storm, that hose you can make in 2 minutes. Anyway, yeah, its a ####show here too.... My girls parent are headed home to Danbury CT right now from Boston I hope somehow her mother gets separated, and only her father makes it back.


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

I like to clear a grand a day here too. It just seems like a nice number. Of course that doesn't always happen, but that's generally the goal.

Tree guys were supposed to make some bucks, the way it used to be around here anyway. I can remember steering a friend onto a $4500 tree (he did it on the side, with no ins. and a borrowed big saw too) probably 20 years ago. Seems like these days some ####### would've probably put $1200 to $1800 on it. Sad really.


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## treeslayer (Dec 26, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> My girls parent are headed home to Danbury CT right now from Boston I hope somehow her mother gets separated, and only her father makes it back.




maybe he'll feed her to the wolves......slowly.


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Calling for 18 inches give or take. Coast is gonna get brutalized. Check and see if there are any hydro shops open for the storm, that hose you can make in 2 minutes. Anyway, yeah, its a ####show here too.... My girls parent are headed home to Danbury CT right now from Boston I hope somehow her mother gets separated, and only her father makes it back.



Trust me, I ruptured one of these lines for the steering cylinder before. Not just any old parts store makes them, due to the flat faced O-ring deal. No biggie though. 

Danbury huh, thats not too far from me. I used to work in new milford quite a bit, right near there. Good luck with the wolves anyway!


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Trust me, I ruptured one of these lines for the steering cylinder before. Not just any old parts store makes them, due to the flat faced O-ring deal. No biggie though.
> 
> Danbury huh, thats not too far from me. I used to work in new milford quite a bit, right near there. Good luck with the wolves anyway! [/QUOTE)
> 
> ...


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> 
> > Trust me, I ruptured one of these lines for the steering cylinder before. Not just any old parts store makes them, due to the flat faced O-ring deal. No biggie though.
> ...


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## ducaticorse (Dec 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> ducaticorse said:
> 
> 
> > A little too far for us to service.. even new milford is a good half hour. I had a customer in ridgefield though, seemed like it took an hour and a half to get down there. Stuck up here in the litchfield/torrington area mostly, in a race to the bottom, with the rest of the takedown losers. Lot of rich, but cheap bastards in the big L! I hope they can all feel the love too! hahahah..
> ...


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 26, 2010)

Lots of figures.. some not sure how you get what you say.. others can't see how you survive on what you say.. 

Oh well..

All I know is prices are very different.. and that may account for some of it.

As an example, gasoline here is almost $5.00/Gal right now..


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## mikewhite85 (Dec 27, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> 
> > Outstanding... Main street in Rigefield is off the chain. I wouldn't step foot on one of those properties for less than 2K. Too afraid I'd tear up turf, or scratch a driveway with a branch, and get sued for a fresh lawn/hot top. Slow and steady at those plantations massah...... LOL
> ...


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## wheelloader123 (Dec 27, 2010)

*Here's the deal*

I'm in N. Alabama. With the number of plant closures and layoffs, everybody is a "tree guy". So the prices have steadily declined. I am fairly well equipped (small wheel loader, bucket truck, stump grinder, grapple truck) and have low overhead- a good day for me would be $900-$1000 but my average would probably be $725-$800 a day (that is a TRUE average) but frankly, you have to continually bust your butt to do it. I think that the guys that talk about making $2,000-$3,000 per day with one crew are full of crap. Yes, you might make that sometimes but not as a consistent average. I did a large storm project a few years ago for a small town. I had 3 bucket trucks with a operator each and me (acting as manager), so a total of 4 guys and 3 bucket trucks. We worked from 7am to 5:30 pm every day. The "best" day we had, we grossed $7,700 and our average was around $3,800 a day. That was incredible income and I recognize it as such- I may never be able to do that again.

Now, that being said, I also know that $2500 in New York city equals about $900 here in Alabama when you consider overhead/taxes/labor/etc.. Perhaps in Colorado it is similar.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 27, 2010)

wheelloader123 said:


> to do it. I think that the guys that talk about making $2,000-$3,000 per day with one crew are full of crap. Yes, you might make that sometimes but not as a consistent average. I did a large storm project a few years ago for a small town.



As an average quite likely true, especially on the $3K side of the figure. I know that I don't average $3K per day for 5 days a week for one crew all year long - love it if I could.. There are days that I can make that, there are also days that I make half that (or less if something messes up... had one 3 day job this past summer where we had a small misshap backing dump into a car... after a 3 day job, paying disposal fees, salary, etc.. was lucky if I broke even.. (forget about making any profit on that one) .. fortunately that does not happen every week!). But then there are maintenance, breakdowns, etc.. 




wheelloader123 said:


> Now, that being said, I also know that $2500 in New York city equals about $900 here in Alabama when you consider overhead/taxes/labor/etc.. Perhaps in Colorado it is similar.



Agreed.. and some on here are not in the U.S., although I think most are. So you have foreign dollar values, exchange rates, different costs, taxes, etc to contend with in different areas. So $2500 here may not be $2500 in New York or $2500 in Alabama.. Realistically it is all dependent upon where you are and your overhead. 

Unfortunately the lowballers are everywhere, and have hit most of us, so we all have to contend with that. Really, what it comes down to is what is your over head (salary for guys, taxes, office expenses, fuel, insurance, etc..).. once all that is paid for .. what do you have left to put away for the company and pay yourself. You need a target for that, and if you are hitting it then you are doing ok, regardless of what you make per day, average or otherwise.

Frankly it does not matter if you charge $900 per day, if that is all it takes to cover your costs and make what you need.. then I guess for your area it might be ok.


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## alpineman (Dec 27, 2010)

thanks for all you guys input on this posting!! Some of you seem very distrusting of each other, but I guess there are a lot of cocky guys BS'ing everyone. TreeClimber57 said it well, make a goal for what you need and go for it. Some of us are in more expensive markets. Local market prices will always ensure that you stay honest in the long run. Good luck on all those new goals for the year!!


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2010)

To the OP, 
Totally stupid thread. You should be ashamed of the dumbness of this ridiculous topic!!!
The laugh is fake, Jeff


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## IcePick (Dec 27, 2010)

wheelloader123 said:


> I'm in N. Alabama. With the number of plant closures and layoffs, everybody is a "tree guy". So the prices have steadily declined. I am fairly well equipped (small wheel loader, bucket truck, stump grinder, grapple truck) and have low overhead- a good day for me would be $900-$1000 but my average would probably be $725-$800 a day (that is a TRUE average) but frankly, you have to continually bust your butt to do it. I think that the guys that talk about making $2,000-$3,000 per day with one crew are full of crap. Yes, you might make that sometimes but not as a consistent average. I did a large storm project a few years ago for a small town. I had 3 bucket trucks with a operator each and me (acting as manager), so a total of 4 guys and 3 bucket trucks. We worked from 7am to 5:30 pm every day. The "best" day we had, we grossed $7,700 and our average was around $3,800 a day. That was incredible income and I recognize it as such- I may never be able to do that again.
> 
> Now, that being said, I also know that $2500 in New York city equals about $900 here in Alabama when you consider overhead/taxes/labor/etc.. Perhaps in Colorado it is similar.



Why is it hard to believe that a good crew can pull in 3500 a day in the summertime? I don't own the company I work for, I'm a lackey, but I get paid well, get great bennies, retirement, and insurance. In return, I do my best everyday, as does the rest of the guys on our crew. 

Our advertising is great, our salesmen are top notch, and our reputation is one of the best in the entire state. We're accredited, and the quality of our work keeps bringing us back to rich clients. 

I'm actually surprised at all the low daily intakes posted. ####, right now as we're approaching January, my crews daily goal and intake has been 2500.

So for the rest of you to call bull#### about the "blowhard liars," wake up and get a clue, you're doing something wrong, or you're in the wrong business.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 27, 2010)

IcePick said:


> Why is it hard to believe that a good crew can pull in 3500 a day in the summertime?



Just out of interest how big are the crews you have. I expect a 3 or 4 man crew to bring in more than a 2 man crew. But.. I also expect them to produce more in the same timeframe. And, the associated charge would be higher as well.

Just like location, what anybody considers a crew is a factor in price charged. Equipment, men, etc.. All about cost and overhead.. and what you have to make.

Having said that, at least here, our crews work longer days in summer time.. which means more work done.. but also higher costs (more labor for guys, etc).

So .. at end of day what is the real profit.?


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## IcePick (Dec 27, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Just out of interest how big are the crews you have.



We have three crews, one has 4-5 guys, the other has 4 guys, and the third has often times 2, sometimes 3. 

The two big crews do 2000-3500 everyday throughout the entire year, we have 1 or 2 of those guys break off in the summer to do plant health care, and the smaller rag tag crew goes around doing close to 800 a day, but they go around doing bull#### gutter cleaning, firewood delivery, and fixer uppers as well.


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## ctrees4$ (Dec 27, 2010)

IcePick said:


> We have three crews, one has 4-5 guys, the other has 4 guys, and the third has often times 2, sometimes 3.
> 
> The two big crews do 2000-3500 everyday throughout the entire year, we have 1 or 2 of those guys break off in the summer to do plant health care, and the smaller rag tag crew goes around doing close to 800 a day, but they go around doing bull#### gutter cleaning, firewood delivery, and fixer uppers as well.



So what do you charge to clean gutters..$800.00? With all the people on your team I can see having to pull 3g a day but find it hard to believe you will chase bs jobs like gutters,firewood,and fixer uppers.


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 27, 2010)

IcePick said:


> Why is it hard to believe that a good crew can pull in 3500 a day in the summertime? I don't own the company I work for, I'm a lackey, but I get paid well, get great bennies, retirement, and insurance. In return, I do my best everyday, as does the rest of the guys on our crew.
> 
> Our advertising is great, our salesmen are top notch, and our reputation is one of the best in the entire state. We're accredited, and the quality of our work keeps bringing us back to rich clients.
> 
> ...



OK, what is the name of the company you work for? Let's just start there. Thanks.


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## IcePick (Dec 28, 2010)

ctrees4$ said:


> So what do you charge to clean gutters..$800.00? With all the people on your team I can see having to pull 3g a day but find it hard to believe you will chase bs jobs like gutters,firewood,and fixer uppers.



We charge 75-100 for a gutter cleaning, depending on the house of course. In spring and fall, it is easy for us to do 5-10 a day. They take about 15 minutes on average to do. Instead of having climbers clean gutters, we send two other guys who work part time, or aren't into climbing.

Firewood delivery is obviously a bigtime winter project. In the summertime we deliver mulch from all our tub ground waste wood. We charge by the yard, and believe it or not make a #### ton of mulch deliveries. Again, we have one or two guys doing this. They also go around doing some bush trimming, or some other bs landscaping crap our salesmen pitched.

Sometimes they spend half a day fixing some ruts in a lawn, or fixing up something that was missed by the other crews (which is quite rare).

Our two large crews stick basically to pruning, removals, cabling, and in the summer plant health care.

We have two crews (sometimes three) most of the guys here have families, and our bosses aren't a bunch of greedy, ignorant rednecks.


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## treeman82 (Dec 28, 2010)

Depending on what's going on, it's anywhere from $800 - $3,000 per day for a crew of no more than 3 guys.


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## tree MDS (Dec 28, 2010)

treeman82 said:


> Depending on what's going on, it's anywhere from $800 - $3,000 per day for a crew of no more than 3 guys.



Well, aint much for anyone to glean from that statement!


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 28, 2010)

IcePick said:


> We charge 75-100 for a gutter cleaning, depending on the house of course. In spring and fall, it is easy for us to do 5-10 a day. They take about 15 minutes on average to do. Instead of having climbers clean gutters, we send two other guys who work part time, or aren't into climbing.
> 
> Firewood delivery is obviously a bigtime winter project. In the summertime we deliver mulch from all our tub ground waste wood. We charge by the yard, and believe it or not make a #### ton of mulch deliveries. Again, we have one or two guys doing this. They also go around doing some bush trimming, or some other bs landscaping crap our salesmen pitched.
> 
> ...



Please answer my question that I posted, earlier: What is the name of your company? After you answer that question, I'll have more. I'm sure we can all benefit from the wisdom you'll impart to us about the company you work for that makes "2000-3500 everyday throughout the entire year." At five days a week, that's $520G's to $910G's a year. I am very interested in how your company has gone about building up such a great business, in all honesty. I look forward to much more information from you. If you don't want to answer here, I'll be more than happy to PM you, so let me know. Thanks.


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 28, 2010)

*IcePick, please answer my question.*

I have seen that you are still posting in this thread, yet you haven't answered my very simple, basic question. I would appreciate an answer, ASAP. Thanks.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Please answer my question that I posted, earlier: What is the name of your company? After you answer that question, I'll have more. I'm sure we can all benefit from the wisdom you'll impart to us about the company you work for that makes "2000-3500 everyday throughout the entire year." At five days a week, that's $520G's to $910G's a year. I am very interested in how your company has gone about building up such a great business, in all honesty. I look forward to much more information from you. If you don't want to answer here, I'll be more than happy to PM you, so let me know. Thanks.



Seems about right to me, We got 10-12 guys year around and our norm is 1.2-1.5 million per year. This year we were down about 180k. Our Los Angeles guys are bigger than San Diego, not sure what they do.
Jeff


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## Toddppm (Dec 28, 2010)

Damn Sunrise have you never seen a successful company? Like someone is supposed to answer to you to prove a point on the internets


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## arbor pro (Dec 28, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> It's difficult to assess what a crew should be making in a day w/out knowing their skill level and equipment available to them. Earlier this year Eric and I were shooting for a grand a day. As we've gotten better at working together and with the addition of our mini we now try to hit $1500 a day. Some days we only make a grand, some days we make $2500. Our best day this season was $3K. This is just 2 guys, 17 yard chip truck, 12 inch chipper, mini skid, 1 ton and trailer. With the addition of a small crane, bucket truck OR another guy I will up our goal to at least $2K a day.



With 2 guys, aerial lift and chip truck, I bid for $200/hr and try to get in 7 billable hours a day so the goal is $1400/day. Typical work day usually includes a couple of non-billable hours. Some days, I'll pull in $2k by working a longer day. My best is $3k working dawn to dusk with 3 guys. Of course, small pruning jobs that don't require the use of large equipment don't pull in as much. On those, I'm mostly looking at $65/hr for labor and small equipment including pickup and saws. I fire the chipper up for a half hour on those days so the equipment fee is minimal. On such days, I am lucky to break $1k/day.

Problem with my area is getting enough work to sustain that level of work. I'm just part-time and can find enough work to pull in $2500/week for 30 weeks of the year but I could never go full-time and expect to work 200 days a year at $1400/day - just not enough work to sustain it. If there was enough work, I'd be quitting my full-time job in a second.

Most of the full-timer's pull in about half as much as I do in a day because they've learned to work slow to sustain their volume of work. I can't believe how long it takes some crews to get jobs done around here. They apparently have no incentive to work hard or fast. I probably gross as much in a year working part-time as some guys do working their version of full-time.

AP


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 28, 2010)

Toddppm said:


> Damn Sunrise have you never seen a successful company? Like someone is supposed to answer to you to prove a point on the internets



Yeah, that's exactly right! Someone IS supposed to answer me. If it walks like BS and talks like BS----------


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Yeah, that's exactly right! Someone IS supposed to answer me. If it walks like BS and talks like BS----------



I guess I am confused a little. Are you saying that you have proof of BS? You know for a fact he is Lying?!
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Dec 28, 2010)

One thing is for sure, if you have yourself convinced $800 bucks a day is all you can get, that's all you're likely to get. Not saying some areas arent different, but just sayin..

I know of people with probably half the guys Jeff has, that are grossing at least what he's claiming, if not more. It all depends on the magic formula I suppose. Some have all the pieces to make it work, others don't.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 28, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> One thing is for sure, if you have yourself convinced $800 bucks a day is all you can get, that's all you're likely to get. Not saying some areas arent different, but just sayin..
> 
> I know of people with probably half the guys Jeff has, that are grossing at least what he's claiming, if not more. It all depends on the magic formula I suppose. Some have all the pieces to make it work, others don't.



Yup. Another thing to consider is are we talking what's made in an average work day, or are we talking what's being made averaged over a whole year? If I took my totals from this year and split them over 200 or so working days the figure per day isn't very impressive. But there's a lot of days we're done working at 10 am. ####, I haven't picked up a chainsaw in almost a week. That doesn't mean that Eric and I can't, on a normal workday, bring in $1500.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> One thing is for sure, if you have yourself convinced $800 bucks a day is all you can get, that's all you're likely to get. Not saying some areas arent different, but just sayin..
> 
> I know of people with probably half the guys Jeff has, that are grossing at least what he's claiming, if not more. It all depends on the magic formula I suppose. Some have all the pieces to make it work, others don't.



I don't know if it's a magic formula . Pretty tough to get over $65 pmh these days. But, you get what you pay for.
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Dec 28, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I don't know if it's a magic formula . Pretty tough to get over $65 pmh these days. But, you get what you pay for.
> Jeff



I agree that it can't be easy. I'm just saying it's possible, is all.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I agree that it can't be easy. I'm just saying it's possible, is all.



That is what I was saying.
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Dec 28, 2010)

I know I need to work on my business/myself, I'm not gonna go around blaming the local economy though. That said, I get $1500 regularly when we go out. I've been slowly trying to raise it to $1600 (easier math to do in the head, lol) The recession hasn't helped with that though!


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## IcePick (Dec 28, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Seems about right to me, We got 10-12 guys year around and our norm is 1.2-1.5 million per year. This year we were down about 180k. Our Los Angeles guys are bigger than San Diego, not sure what they do.
> Jeff



Last year we pulled in 1.2 mill, the year before that was about a mill. This past year I'm willing to bet we were around 1.5 mill. 

You just gotta trudge through this economy and do your best. You have to be persistent and not worry about those things too much. 

Our company is successful because everyone's working together, everyone is doing their job. 

Besides on the job performance, we attend trade shows and communicate with other people inside and outside the industry. We've got some good family owned businesses handling our insurance and 401k plans.

We present ourselves well, we try to keep trucks clean, if we smoke it's never on a clients property (at least some of us accomplish that), we wear proper ppe, and we work our f$cking tails off until it hurts.


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## IcePick (Dec 28, 2010)

That above post was directed at sunrise, not jeff. I'm not going to throw our company's name out onto a public forum to be ridiculed and called liars, I resepect them too much (most of the time!).


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 28, 2010)

IcePick said:


> That above post was directed at sunrise, not jeff. I'm not going to throw our company's name out onto a public forum to be ridiculed and called liars, I resepect them too much (most of the time!).



We're cool. I just responded to your pm. Get back to me when you can. Thanks.


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 28, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I guess I am confused a little. Are you saying that you have proof of BS? You know for a fact he is Lying?!
> Jeff



What I was implying was that if someone won't answer a simple question like, "What company do you work for?" I get the feeling that the person is a BS artist. IcePick and I are pm'ing now, so everything's cool. I can respect someone's not wanting to go public with a company name, as long as I can dialogue with that person via pm's. If there's hesitancy there, then it's a very good bet that the person is simply blowing smoke, in here, when it comes to $$ figures. I've seen it over and over again. The last guy I "outed" in here for being a BS artist, disappeared overnight. In that case, I actually tracked down the guy's home address, his ISA certificate number and his company in Oregon. He was a liar, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how I found that out. These days, with all of the internet resources available, you can find out so much about a given individual it gets kind of weird. As for my motivation, it's part the challenge, part the final act of saying to myself, "I friggin' KNEW that guy was bs'ing in here!"


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> What I was implying was that if someone won't answer a simple question like, "What company do you work for?" I get the feeling that the person is a BS artist. IcePick and I are pm'ing now, so everything's cool. I can respect someone's not wanting to go public with a company name, as long as I can dialogue with that person via pm's. If there's hesitancy there, then it's a very good bet that the person is simply blowing smoke, in here, when it comes to $$ figures. I've seen it over and over again. The last guy I "outed" in here for being a BS artist, disappeared overnight. In that case, I actually tracked down the guy's home address, his ISA certificate number and his company in Oregon. He was a liar, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how I found that out. These days, with all of the internet resources available, you can find out so much about a given individual it gets kind of weird. As for my motivation, it's part the challenge, part the final act of saying to myself, "I friggin' KNEW that guy was bs'ing in here!"



Hey way to go dictective! Tons of people BS on here. Alot are just blowing smoke to make themselves feel better about themselves cuz they are so fat and lazy to go and do the real thing. Really what does it matter?


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

Jeff


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 28, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Hey way to go dictective! Tons of people BS on here. Alot are just blowing smoke to make themselves feel better about themselves cuz they are so fat and lazy to go and do the real thing. Really what does it matter?



"Dictective?" Was that intentional? Yeah, it does and doesn't matter, in the final analysis. I guess when I get home after busting my @## to make a few hundred dollars for the day, I get po'd reading about these guys supposedly making $3500 for a three-man crew, in a day. When all is said and done, I'm relatively happy with my income, but I couldn't stay in the trees if I didn't have investments, out there. As it is, I'm looking around at other options. When you combine daily aches and pains from climbing and hauling at 58, with not enough money to possibly make it worth it, it gives one pause to think. The big question is: What do I do next?


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> "Dictective?" Was that intentional? Yeah, it does and doesn't matter, in the final analysis. I guess when I get home after busting my @## to make a few hundred dollars for the day, I get po'd reading about these guys supposedly making $3500 for a three-man crew, in a day. When all is said and done, I'm relatively happy with my income, but I couldn't stay in the trees if I didn't have investments, out there. As it is, I'm looking around at other options. When you combine daily aches and pains from climbing and hauling at 58, with not enough money to possibly make it worth it, it gives one pause to think. The big question is: What do I do next?



Well I guess if you don't want to move to Florida and play Canasta for your final days you keep working. It gives you exercise, fresh air, money, and away time from the ball and chain. It doesn't get any better. Well better equipment!


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

You choose your swell and ride your wave. Your on it, ride it.
Jeff


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## ctrees4$ (Dec 28, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> "Dictective?" Was that intentional? Yeah, it does and doesn't matter, in the final analysis. I guess when I get home after busting my @## to make a few hundred dollars for the day, I get po'd reading about these guys supposedly making $3500 for a three-man crew, in a day. When all is said and done, I'm relatively happy with my income, but I couldn't stay in the trees if I didn't have investments, out there. As it is, I'm looking around at other options. When you combine daily aches and pains from climbing and hauling at 58, with not enough money to possibly make it worth it, it gives one pause to think. The big question is: What do I do next?



Invest in a bucket truck..save your knees and back.


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## mpatch (Dec 28, 2010)

the numbers mean nothing without some other stats. My current employer does between 15 and 20 mil a year with between 150 and 250 employees depending on time of year. The fact you said willing to "bet" on 1.5 mil. means you have no idea as to what gross sales are. Some days we will do between 2 and 3k with 2 guys but thats not the average. Hell the best day I ever had my take was 3g cash in less than 4 hours contracting on storm work with nothing but climbing gear and me. That doesn't mean I make that everyday. Where I am working now our wage percentage has been between 25 and 30 percent. So if we can AVERAGE $70-$75 man hour we are doing fine.



IcePick said:


> Last year we pulled in 1.2 mill, the year before that was about a mill. This past year I'm willing to bet we were around 1.5 mill.
> 
> You just gotta trudge through this economy and do your best. You have to be persistent and not worry about those things too much.
> 
> ...


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## ducaticorse (Dec 28, 2010)

mpatch said:


> the numbers mean nothing without some other stats. My current employer does between 15 and 20 mil a year with between 150 and 250 employees depending on time of year. The fact you said willing to "bet" on 1.5 mil. means you have no idea as to what gross sales are. Some days we will do between 2 and 3k with 2 guys but thats not the average. Hell the best day I ever had my take was 3g cash in less than 4 hours contracting on storm work with nothing but climbing gear and me. That doesn't mean I make that everyday. Where I am working now our wage percentage has been between 25 and 30 percent. So if we can AVERAGE $70-$75 man hour we are doing fine.



Why because he's venturing a seemingly educated guess as to what his company's gross is, doe he have no idea as to what he is talking about?


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

mpatch said:


> the numbers mean nothing without some other stats. My current employer does between 15 and 20 mil a year with between 150 and 250 employees depending on time of year. The fact you said willing to "bet" on 1.5 mil. means you have no idea as to what gross sales are. Some days we will do between 2 and 3k with 2 guys but thats not the average. Hell the best day I ever had my take was 3g cash in less than 4 hours contracting on storm work with nothing but climbing gear and me. That doesn't mean I make that everyday. Where I am working now our wage percentage has been between 25 and 30 percent. So if we can AVERAGE $70-$75 man hour we are doing fine.



WoW Slightly less than 4 hours maybe like 3hrs and 45 minutes. You were making $14.50per minute. I doubt your worth that very much. There's earning a wage and then there's fleecing people. I like to look at people in the eye when I leave not reach in their back pocket..


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## mpatch (Dec 28, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Why because he's venturing a seemingly educated guess as to what his company's gross is, doe he have no idea as to what he is talking about?



Thats a pretty big jump in sales for one year given the state of the economy. 
It's all about profit no matter what you can do in a day ($300 or $3,000) it must be profitable.


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## mpatch (Dec 28, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> WoW Slightly less than 4 hours maybe like 3hrs and 45 minutes. You were making $14.50per minute. I doubt your worth that very much. There earning a wage and then there's fleecing people. I like to look at people in the eye when I leave not reach in their back pocket..


 
I was a contract climber there was $4500 on the job. I took my share and the guy that got the job paid some Mexicans $300 to curb the debris so he made money also. It was a very sketchy climb (uprooted trees leaning into other trees over 2 houses). Actually he made me a lot of money in Texas all I had to do what get trees on the ground and his Mexicans took care of the debris. We had found the proverbial "honey hole". After staying for a while and talking with the locals what some guys were making that had a crane was disgusting. Supply and demand at it's best.


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

mpatch said:


> I was a contract climber there was $4500 on the job. I took my share and the guy that got the job paid some Mexicans $300 to curb the debris so he made money also. It was a very sketchy climb (uprooted trees leaning into other trees over 2 houses). Actually he made me a lot of money in Texas all I had to do what get trees on the ground and his Mexicans took care of the debris. We had found the proverbial "honey hole". After staying for a while and talking with the locals what some guys were making that had a crane was disgusting. Supply and demand at it's best.



Geez why do they make loader's when there's Mexican's? Different story with the Crane.


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## mpatch (Dec 28, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Geez why do they make loader's when there's Mexican's? Different story with the Crane.



if i only had pictures post hurricane of the mexicans climbing trees, they do have balls (or green eyes)


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Geez why do they make loader's when there's Mexican's? Different story with the Crane.



They make loader's for guys like me cuz we don't have Mexican's up here. Thank Goodness!


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## squad143 (Dec 29, 2010)

"What are you guys doing per day??"

This figure is very hard to compare to other companies. As previously mentioned; What area of the country are you working in? How long is the day? How many men? Are we talking gross or net? What kind of equipment are you using? Is your company legit, somewhat legit or not at all? How much competition are you facing? How long of a drive do you usually have to travel, What type of work are you doing? plus a lot of other variables have a big change on the answer to this question.

For my situation and area, I'm fairly close to TreeClimber57's figures of around $1,500/Day-Gross. (8-10 hr day, 2-3 man crew +chipper). I don't usually charge extra for the mini skidsteer, cause when we use it, were done quicker. Some days I gross less, some days more. When I have to travel into the City to do jobs, the daily rate is higher, but then again so is the overhead (further travel + disposal fees).


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## treeman82 (Dec 29, 2010)

I am posting this here because I believe it is relevant, though slightly off topic.

Tomorrow I am going to do a storm damage job for <$1,300 That's a 28 ton boom truck, a 60' bucket truck, chip truck, chipper, and a load of chips being hauled away... Half day job crew of 3 overall. The people are tight on money and the husband has MS. I wish I could do it for less, or that the insurance would cover it... but no property damage, only the threat of it.

I bid a job a week or two ago... the guy just bought 3-4 mil in real estate for himself this year. 4 man crew all day (including crane operator) 33 ton boom truck, truck, chipper, probably 2 loads of chips going out, and 1 load of oak logs on my buddy's logging trailer. Removals over the house, and some branches over the driveway and house. Bid $4,500 and the guy got "sticker shock."


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## Koa Man (Dec 29, 2010)

The only number that matters is how much did you net? Gross means nothing. You can have a crew that grosses $1500 and nets less than a crew that grosses $1000. 

I can net $500 on a $850 gross 99% of the time. Adding to the gross in an 8 hour day will almost always add to my net by the same amount. The only variable would be the amount of the green waste disposable fee, $41 a ton here. I currently don't own a chipper, as I sold my 12 and 18 inch machines a couple of years ago.


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## ducaticorse (Dec 29, 2010)

Well said


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## tree md (Dec 30, 2010)

I have my hourly and daily rate that I shoot for. Haven't been getting what I normally like to the past couple of years. I am down about a third in sales. I have trimmed down and am operating a lot smaller now as well. If I can't do a job without spending no more 1/3 on labor I walk away.


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## imagineero (Dec 30, 2010)

It seems there's a few issues going on here... one is "what should you make?" the other is "what can you make" and the third is "do you have any idea at all what you make a day averaged out per year net after all your expenses or do you just try to get as much cash as you can even if you are making no money at all?"

*What should you make?*
This is probably the easiest. We all know what the going rates are for labor in our area. In my area in australia its about $350~$400/day for a good climber, a bit less than half that for a good groundie. Take off a bit more if either are not that experienced. Supplying a vehicle? Then add about $10k/year. Add up the replacement cost of all your saws, ropes, spikes, harnesses, small tolls etc. Divide that by 2 years so you can replace them. Add in whatever is the going rate for rental of any heavy equipment you have. Now add in insurance, tax, PPE, advertising, boots, clothes, phone, internet, sick leave, holiday pay plus about 15% extra on top of all that to cover things that go wrong. If you bought all this on credit then add in the interest. If you used your own money then don't sell yourself short; consider it a directors loan as any corporation would, and pay yourself interest. Divide all of this by the number of days you expect to be *working* in a year. Take about 20% of those days out of the figure just to be real sure. Now you've got a fully burdened rate. 

*What can you make?* 
Generally not as much as you should be making... if you want to average it out over the year. What you can make depends a lot on the economy, what other guys are charging, how desperate you are. Whey the market is great, I've hit some real cream. There's no denying how sweat it is when you get it. I've had a couple (very rare) of those golden $3k+days. They were hard work, I won't kid... But there was a smile on my face thinking of those dollars. More recently I've done some bargain basement deals. Silly deals, deals that don't even really cover my costs. Some would say that I'd be better off not lowering the bar, but generally at that point the bar has been lowered for most people, and if I didn't work at the market rate then I'd be losing a lot of money, instead of a little. At least I'm not sitting at home drinking coffee. I recently removed 7 pines that all needed to be climbed for $1500. They weren't small. A few years ago I would have charged $5k+. Embarrassingly, I've recently done some single tree removals for $250. That's called fighting the current, and it takes you backwards at a slightly reduced rate. Local currents vary ;-)

*What do you make?*
If there's one conclusion you can draw from this thread, it's thank god that tree guys aren't accountants. Some do this work because they cant get any other work, a lot do it for the love of it, though I've yet to find the citibank account manager who gave up his day job to cut trees ;-) I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the vast majority have no idea at all what their daily net is when averaged out over the last year (or any year for that matter) was, or even how the expenses broke down, what the hourly rate in the pocket turned out to be. I'm pretty sure the least used phrase in the English language is "is that the tree guys Ferrari parked outside?", and there's a reason for that. If you are truly averaging $3k a day, then you are clearly in the territory of investment bankers, specialist surgeons, top shelf lawyers. Obviously you would own your own home, plus several investment properties, a few holiday homes, one in belize, perhaps another in the caymen islands. A few nice cars, a 6 (or 7) figure siss bank account, a sensible investment portfolio. Your own personal playboy bunny, a butler, maid and gardener and a gold plated rolls royce. What else would you expect of someone earning three quarters of a million dollars a year?

The truth though, is illustrated by that old joke about the tree guy who wins the lottery, and when asked if he'll retire, says that he'll just keep working until all the money is gone. Most tree guys I know drive old trucks. They don't have new saws. They don't have $100k in the bank. Sometimes they dont even have enough cash to fill the tank in that old truck all the way to full. They don't have an american express platinum card, or get big time respect from their bank manager. They struggle to get by, some months the numbers just don't add up. It's a plate spinning act. Lucky for me, I don't do tree work full time, it's a sideline to my main business of building. That means i can afford to keep cutting trees ;-)

Shaun


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## wheelloader123 (Dec 30, 2010)

*What we really make!*

Ah, the great debate over gross income and net income. We in the "tree industry" have been duped by thinking that because we have fancy cranes and chippers and bucket trucks and loaders, and somehow figure out how to pay for them-that we are making money. Simply Not So. I almost chuckle when I see so many tree guys adding a medium sized crane to there 3-4 man crew and then thinking $2000-$3000/day is "good". The crane alone w/ and operator ought to bring $135/hour "portal to portal". Also, it seems when we talk about a day, we seem to continually forget all the prep time (gear loading, saw sharpening, truck fueling, etc.) and the end of the day time (dumping trucks, etc.) this is all time that should be billed for.
I have been in this business for 20 years, and am the sole provider for my home (my wife is a full time/stay at home mom for our 2 children). I am very well equipped (2 grapple trucks, 3 bucket trucks, 2 wheel loaders, 2 stump grinders, 14" chipper, etc.), but most of it stays parked these days-it simply isn't worth running it for the reduced prices out there. The "income" doesn't justify the wear and maintenance on the equipment. That being said, a few years ago I really did the math and figured what my true "take home pay" was and it came in consistently at $28,000-$30,000 per year.
Oh sure, I was able to make payments on equipment and pay my bills but that is what my real realized personal income was and is. If most of you would really sit down and do the math you would probably get similar results- ITS PATHEDIC!! I could make that as a short order cook at Waffle House. I also realize more and more that most people in "tree work" either have a wife that generated the true primary home income or do this part time and have a "real job" on the side. As the years progress, I moreso realize the struggle to properly provide for my wife and childred being in this business. I also realize that the incredible amount of time I have to invest to produce a meager income is ridiculous. Most of you probably have similar lives- start at 6:30 am or so, go to the shop, get everything ready for the guys, go to the job (work work work), dump the trucks, get the guys out of there, return a few calls, go do a few estimates, get home late (around 7:00 pm or so), spend a little time with the kids, do a little desk work, go to bed, repeat the process!! IS IT STILL WORTH IT?? HMMMM!! What else would we do?


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## Koa Man (Dec 30, 2010)

I know one guy who did add all the hours spend in prep, billing, maintaining his gear, bidding etc, and wondered if he could file a lawsuit against himself for paying himself below federal min. wage. LOL.

Being in the tree business has enabled me to buy a home and a new car or truck every few years. Something I was not able to do working my first 16 years out of high school for a major airline.


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## tree md (Dec 30, 2010)

Bigger does not always mean better...


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## Norwayclimber (Dec 30, 2010)

tree md said:


> Bigger does not always mean better...


 
But it usually is more fun!


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## nba123 (Dec 30, 2010)

Im in SE MO I work full time for a power comp as a lineman and own a tree serv on the side my goal is 100dollers per hour for me I have one guy that I work with I pay him well and the better I do the better he does. All climb work nice dump trailer nice 1 ton flat bed more saws than anybody needs skidsteer with grapple witch really gets jobs done faster and is a great investment faster means more money per hour I loaded and unloaded a lot of trees buy hand before I saved enough money to buy a dump tra same about the skid steer and grapple. I am saving for a bucket now and will not buy it till I have the cash. I dont have equipment payments so when its slow Its not that bad on me theres a local tree service that has 3 buckets they r new dump trucks skidsteers and graples and is having hard times because work is slow hes a nice guy and is bidding work dirt cheap right now because his payments r still coming in. I bid a job in st louis and a comp with a crane bid it cheaper than me and I thought I was on the low side but there r cranes sitting every where right now and a little money is better than no money when you got big payments some r hacks but some r men who would rather work for less then wait for the check to come to them I can respect that for those guys making 3000 a day thats great im glad for them I hope every arb on here can make that kind of money but the cust in my area would be affended if you pulled that kind of money in one day here and word travels fast in a small town. IMO looking at the future you dont make money on the homeruns you make it on the doubles and singles that keep calling you back every couple of years or when the wind blows and dont even get bids they just say do what needs done send me a bill because they know you are going to be fair.


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## ducaticorse (Dec 31, 2010)

Guys and gals, it all comes down to how you manage your business. PERIOD. If you are doing the best you can and are coming out with less than what you can live on comfortably, then either the area you're working in is so poorly depressed that no matter how brilliant you are you can't make it, or you shouldn't be running your own shop. 

I'll eat my gun if I have a crane, multiple chip trucks, loaders, and chippers, and at the end of the year net 38 grand. I made more than that last year with a one ton, a bandit 150, and a climber.

Market, how you sell yourself, the product you produce, the people on your crew producing the product, and managing your financials in a dogged manner is what it is all about.

I agree that some of us are working in depressed areas, and that sucks. My area isn't, and the money is there. Two buckets, 2 chip trucks, 1 Log loader, a 140" crane, two good crews, and proper advertising is all that is needed in my parts to make the money I described above. Believe it or don't, doesn't matter to me one bit.

You can be the best producer (climber, crane operator, bucket guy) on earth in your line of work and it doesn't matter squat when related to running a succesful business, and in the end, that's what it's going to come down to. Buy it or not, flame me or don't, doesn't matter to me. I'm in this biz to make money, and have a good quality life, I'm not doing it for my health, or because I like coming home wreaking like 2-stroke, with pockets full of sawdust. And I'm certainly not doing it because it's all I know.


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## wheelloader123 (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm curious guys. Speaking of "net" incomes, how many of you have worker's comp, disability, health, and life insurance that you pay for with your businesses? How many of you are the only/primary "breadwinner" for your home? Married, single? Kids, no kids? Just curious as to how our "true" financial responsibilities compare when we talk about the money we make.


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## ducaticorse (Dec 31, 2010)

wheelloader123 said:


> I'm curious guys. Speaking of "net" incomes, how many of you have worker's comp, disability, health, and life insurance that you pay for with your businesses? How many of you are the only/primary "breadwinner" for your home? Married, single? Kids, no kids? Just curious as to how our "true" financial responsibilities compare when we talk about the money we make.


 
I am not married, have no kids, carry liability and workman's comp. My equipment is insured with comprehensive. I'll be the first to admit that if I had a kid, or a wife to support, there would be no way I could pull off what I do in the time frame that I have. Would I be interested in starting a tree business from the ground up if I was? Probably not. Does having children and a wife effect how a business shouldbe run? It shouldn't as far as I am concerned, but thats coming from a guy who has neither..


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 31, 2010)

wheelloader123 said:


> I'm curious guys. Speaking of "net" incomes, how many of you have worker's comp, disability, health, and life insurance that you pay for with your businesses? How many of you are the only/primary "breadwinner" for your home? Married, single? Kids, no kids? Just curious as to how our "true" financial responsibilities compare when we talk about the money we make.


 
I have wife, and 3 kids (pretty much grown up now). 

$10M liability insurance, Workers Comp, Disability, (health is a bit different in Canada so hard to compare - it is funded through our payroll taxes - and if payroll is over $400K then it goes up on a scale - starts out at 0.04%). I am only breadwinner.

I wish that everybody in tree business had same overhead and same responsibilities though.. would make a more level field and get rid of some of the lowballing scum (maybe).


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 31, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> I have wife, and 3 kids (pretty much grown up now).



And I paid half of my daughters university cost (6 years) (she has Masters in Human Nutrition), and half my older sons college (2 years).

And I got no money left for me


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 1, 2011)

TreeClimber57 said:


> And I paid half of my daughters university cost (6 years) (she has Masters in Human Nutrition), and half my older sons college (2 years).
> 
> And I got no money left for me



I hear ya! Seems the more I make, the less I keep! 10 years ago, I could get by with a few hundred for stuff under the tree. Now, with the boys. Hot Wheels and Tonkas dont cut it! I-Phones and PS3 are the needs today! Little box, big price!


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## alpineman (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> I'm curious guys. Speaking of "net" incomes, how many of you have worker's comp, disability, health, and life insurance that you pay for with your businesses? How many of you are the only/primary "breadwinner" for your home? Married, single? Kids, no kids? Just curious as to how our "true" financial responsibilities compare when we talk about the money we make.


 
My wife stays home with our two kids, so my business is the only income coming in. Our business pays for work. comp., liability ins., health ins, life ins. and the rest. Per your previous post, I wouldn't even be in this business if I couldn't even net 50-60K plus each year. ITS NOT WORTH THE HEALTH RISK! 

I don't think we should go around sharing our net incomes on this site, but it is a very valid point. I do see a lot of tree guys driving around in crappy looking trucks, but I also see many who are smart business men doing it well!! This economic downturn is weeding out the business owners who really don't know how to run a business. They just need to go get a job. Being a good climber doesn't mean you can run or should run a business. The people who are innovative and thinking ahead are the ones who are doing well.


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## ducaticorse (Jan 1, 2011)

alpineman said:


> My wife stays home with our two kids, so my business is the only income coming in. Our business pays for work. comp., liability ins., health ins, life ins. and the rest. Per your previous post, I wouldn't even be in this business if I couldn't even net 50-60K plus each year. ITS NOT WORTH THE HEALTH RISK!
> 
> I don't think we should go around sharing our net incomes on this site, but it is a very valid point. I do see a lot of tree guys driving around in crappy looking trucks, but I also see many who are smart business men doing it well!! This economic downturn is weeding out the business owners who really don't know how to run a business. They just need to go get a job. Being a good climber doesn't mean you can run or should run a business. The people who are innovative and thinking ahead are the ones who are doing well.


 
####in-a-right doggy! Well said... Finally for god's sake..... I've been saying this too. You can climb the #### outta the most wicked tree, doesn't mean you know DIK about running a profitable business.......


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## wheelloader123 (Jan 1, 2011)

*Let's "mix it up" a bit*

Well, speaking of "running a business"- how many of you operate your business debt free? If not, is most of your debt for equipment or property/buildings? Do you have a sizable "rainy day fund" or do you depend on a line of credit to see you through the difficult times?


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## ducaticorse (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> Well, speaking of "running a business"- how many of you operate your business debt free? If not, is most of your debt for equipment or property/buildings? Do you have a sizable "rainy day fund" or do you depend on a line of credit to see you through the difficult times?


 
I own outright all my equip. I have no rainy day fund, (makes things interesting every once and a while) I have no line of credit, as I have a relatively new business.. I'm buliding my company right now, everything goes back into it, EVERYTHING. If I projected #### would get hairy to a point where I needed a rainy day fund here, I'd go back to the daily grind. Just took on a 3-day $8K contract with a large condo complex. Not worried considering this is the "slow" season... Anybody want pictures, and a notarized contract?


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## wheelloader123 (Jan 1, 2011)

Ducaticorse, 
Exactly how long have you been in this business? If I may ask.


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## ducaticorse (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> Ducaticorse,
> Exactly how long have you been in this business? If I may ask.


 
Started my own shop in August of 2010. Flame suit on... Been running multi-million dollar profitable businesses for 10 years. You wanna see my resume?


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## wheelloader123 (Jan 1, 2011)

No, I was just a little curious. So you're where pushing 40 or somewhere close I guess?


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## ducaticorse (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> No, I was just a little curious. So you're where pushing 40 or somewhere close I guess?


 
-10

Joined the Army at 17 with a parental waiver. Transfered to reserves @ 20yo (3year hitch for combat arms 1st ID INFANTRY HOOOAAHHHHHH!!!!) Worked in restaraunts while I went to school, Edwards AFB for crash rescue, and then NH/FT Leanord Wood for DSS during my 4 year reserves, while going to Salem State (entrepreneurial business). Went to management quickly, and worked upper level management for 2.5 years before I pieced out, and started the "tree biz"......


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## ducaticorse (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> Ducaticorse,
> Exactly how long have you been in this business? If I may ask.


 
I'm also a Leo, enjoy walks on the beach at dusk, (runs at dawn), and prefer sugar to sweet & low.


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## ducaticorse (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> No, I was just a little curious. So you're where pushing 40 or somewhere close I guess?


 
What loader is that in your avatar? I want one.....


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## nba123 (Jan 1, 2011)

wheelloader123 said:


> Well, speaking of "running a business"- how many of you operate your business debt free? If not, is most of your debt for equipment or property/buildings? Do you have a sizable "rainy day fund" or do you depend on a line of credit to see you through the difficult times?


 
I operate debt free my equip is old but painted to match so it looks clean. I dont know what you consider sizable but I have a 401k and a roth also a college fund for each of my kids at edward jones so it wont cost me anything for them to go 4 years. I also try to keep around 10 thousand in a savings acount for rainy day stuff. To make this happen I work full time for a power comp as a lineman and have been runing a small tree biz since 99. I mainly build and repair power lines but we also do alot of our own triming. This keeps me working alot but I still manage to make all sporting events and take vactions.


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## TreeClimber57 (Jan 1, 2011)

TreeCo said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I guess word of my 96 Dodge has reached Colorado.


 
Older does not mean crapy


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## alpineman (Jan 1, 2011)

*Mispoke!*



TreeCo said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I guess word of my 96 Dodge has reached Colorado.


 
My bad on that one...I only meant that some companies where every piece of equipment is beat to hell and their pick up truck looks like they run a junk business....that is the people i am talking about. Nothin' wrong with driving an older truck. I just got rid of my 89'Dodge a few years ago...nice truck!


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 2, 2011)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Older does not mean crapy


 
ur right! I have a 78 Ford L-7000 log/dump tuck, its old, but looks good and runs better! It has not left the yard since I have been back home, need a skidloader to make it worth having out there!


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## TimberMcPherson (Jan 3, 2011)

I learned long ago in different industrys that to a point, you cant judge how well a guys doing or what kind of job he does by how new or shiny his gear is. Its like trying to judge a builder by what cordless drill hes got or how good a mechanic is by the expense of his tools.
Some guys will see 15k in the bank at end of year and think "thats money off my morgage or money for my kids education"
While another guy will think "thats a nice box body for my truck"
Fast forward 10 years and if both have a couple bad years, one guy is less likely to loose his house or have to pull his kids from school.

Some guys are more gear orientated and some are more about the take home money.


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 3, 2011)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Some guys are more gear orientated and some are more about the take home money.


 
I like both!!
Thats why I buy used, usually, I can take something old, turn it into something just as good as a new one. My 83' F-350, for example, paid 2500, newer dump body with scissor lift, all 3 sides fold down, 8.5 Western Pro with wings and a 6.9 diesel, re-did all the fuel system, charging system and cooling. Needs a new cab, have one, bought it for 500, mint condition same year. I will have about 1500 into it when the cab is on and its painted, will look and run as good as a brand new one, that would cost me about 40,000!
That L-700 (I put L-7000 in another post) cost me 1400! have about 500 into it, ready to go, just ad decals!


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## TreeClimber57 (Jan 3, 2011)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Some guys are more gear orientated and some are more about the take home money.



Agreed.. and I tend to be very gear orientated.

But, it is not about buying a new truck because your existing one is 5 years old.. assuming it works well and does not cost a lot for maintenance.. or even 10 years old for that matter.

It is about buying new equipment that you don't already have, focusing on the equipment that will make you more efficient, and better able to do the job.

Simply buying the same over because you want a new one does not work for me.


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## rtsims (Mar 4, 2014)

Just spent an hour reading this thread. Although its a tough topic to discuss because of all the variables, it was interesting. It seems like we don't have good ol fashioned heated debates anymore.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 4, 2014)

rtsims said:


> Just spent an hour reading this thread. Although its a tough topic to discuss because of all the variables, it was interesting. It seems like we don't have good ol fashioned heated debates anymore.



I for one am glad you did, it reminds of the good old day;s. BTW, I re-read it too,,I forgot how nice I was ,
Jeff


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## teamtree (Mar 4, 2014)

mpatch said:


> I work in the same market (front range of Colorado) as you and target is $72 a man hour.



We are close to this rate but honestly, we as an industry need to wake up....a mechanic or plumber charges at least $75.......and I am sure they do not have near the equipment we do.....and for the mechanic who has a nice shop they are charging $85 or more.....

So, we need to be charging more for our services.

If we hit are marks everyday we are around 2000 for a 4 man crew


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 4, 2014)

I like 12/1300 for a 2 man crew !


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## gorman (Mar 4, 2014)

Two guys on payroll, insurance (trucks, liability, comp), fuel, and misc overhead you're talking $500 a day in terms of cost. 
If the tax man is taking his cut you have to shoot for 1500 a day. At least. You won't make it every time, but you have to try.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 4, 2014)

Just me and one guy that's it . I do what I can in 8/9 hours and come back if needed ..... Pay him and maybe make 4K a week to slice up for bills and myself .... Been doing that off and on now and love it .... I will just buy better tools to ease us into more .


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## ShaneLogs (Mar 5, 2014)

I was making about $1400 per day here in Maine. We were very busy in the summer and turning tree jobs down.


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## rtsims (Mar 5, 2014)

I also run a small crew, usually myself and 1-2 other guys. On bigger jobs I will bring in another climber and groundie to make up a 4 man crew. TC101: sounds like your doing good. That is the type of business model I try to run. Keep overhead low, nose to the grindstone and make a fair living. I wish I had enough work to bring in 4k every week but the work load just isn't there yet. That's the hardest part for me in this business, its feast or famine. But im not bitchen, and im learning every day.. I love what I do and I know things will get bigger and better as time goes on. Just to throw it out there, $1000 a day would be nice but I tend to make less on big jobs than I do if I stack up 2-3 smaller jobs in a day. That's with the bucket/chip combo and 2-3 guys. I love the days when I get 3 $400-$600 jobs and theres no big wood to haul out, not making 2 dump runs etc..


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## ShaneLogs (Mar 5, 2014)

Sounds like you have a pretty good set-up rtsims


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## rtsims (Mar 5, 2014)

ShaneLogs said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty good set-up rtsims


Thanks. I have good equip and a good rep around here, but im not near as busy as I want to be. Only working 2 days this week and 3 next week. Need to shell out some money for marketing but its hard to do when my business income pays for my wife and I's personal debt. Its all good though, its moving forward just not at a speedy pace.


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## ShaneLogs (Mar 5, 2014)

rtsims said:


> Thanks. I have good equip and a good rep around here, but im not near as busy as I want to be. Only working 2 days this week and 3 next week. Need to shell out some money for marketing but its hard to do when my business income pays for my wife and I's personal debt. Its all good though, its moving forward just not at a speedy pace.



True! I know all about how hard it is trying to make a go at it in the tree care industry. What you running for equipment ?


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## alpineman (Mar 5, 2014)

Wow i was pleasantly surprised to see this post brought back up in my email. I was the one who originally started the post and man that was a long time ago. (2010!!) Its crazy how things change over the years. It seems like it is becoming harder and harder to make a good living doing tree work, but I think there is a ton of room for innovation. Teamtree I agree with you that we should be charging more, but then again we have to bid against each other and unless we all do it, the people with lower prices tend to win that game. Someone was telling me the other day about tree work in Fort Collins, CO and they were saying that most of the larger companies have somewhat of a typical rate for services that was much higher than here in Denver. Now of course that could be just hearsay, but I thought it would be pretty cool. Maybe we could unionize and demand higher rates....just kidding that would be a horrible idea. When I originally posted this I was running a 4 man crew and we were doing around $2000 per day. But honestly ever since then we have diverged from the typical tree model and we have seen some great results. Lets face it, nobody likes to go work their tails off every day with only one or two other guys....it gets boring! What we have done for the last few years is continue to make our one crew larger and larger, while also upping the daily money goals. Most companies just start new crews (which if we were honest is just another way to put a notch on our professional belts!!). One of my climbers was telling me the other day about a well respected company in town he used to work for and when I asked him how many climbers they run every day, he told me 4. But he said they also run 4 different crews with one climber/one groundsman with a goal of $1000-1200 per day. Guys let me tell you, thats a crappy way to work all day every day. So 8 guys have a goal of $4000-5000 per day, which is great but thats a lot of equipments, a lot of diesel and a lot of expenses! Why not do it a different way!! We now run 4 climbers every day, 2 groundsman and they all stay on the same crew and just go from job to job as quickly as possible, while still doing a good job of course. Our goal is $4200 per day, but I am only running 6 guys (sometimes 7), 2-3 trucks go out each morning(instead of 4-6 in a normal scenario) and they all get to have fun and joke and work together every day. 
The funny thing is that I don't make any more profit(percentage wise) than I used to back a few years ago, but I guess seeing things grow and having the opportunity to provide more people with work is just fun....well at least most days!!


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 5, 2014)

I don't do too much residential work


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## rtsims (Mar 5, 2014)

ShaneLogs said:


> True! I know all about how hard it is trying to make a go at it in the tree care industry. What you running for equipment ?


97 GMC C7500 bucket/chip combo, 99 Vermeer 935, carlton 2500-4, dump trailer & 2004 cummins.

101: I hope this year I can pick up more commercial work as well as gov work. Right now i would say im 90% residential.

Its funny i read post's like the one above from alpine and others about how they are super busy and need more climbers etc. . I have the opposite problem, im young and hungry and want more work NOW. Patience is a virtue, one that i don't have. I will be a happy man the day i can run one 3 man crew full time. Is that too much to ask?


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 5, 2014)

I love working for a big company no worry about work,equipment problems,estimate BS,people not paying, just punch in do your job and go home. We've worked 40-45 hours all winter long sometimes Saturday too trimming city trees in subdivisions and for the State trimming trees along the highway. Plus still doing residential and commercial jobs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Big Natey (Mar 5, 2014)

I dont own the business i work for but im pretty high on the totem pole and good freinds with the owner.

Our target is 4000 a day, but thats with 6 guys, a crane, 40 yard chip truck, 18 inch chipper, big skid steer, bucket truck, and a 100+ yard loader truck.

Were the largest tree service in our area and do all the work for the two larger towns that surround us. Were the only tree service with a crane as well.

What takes most tree services 2 days, takes us 2 hours. ( In mid alabama anyway.)


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## brockhaskins (Mar 5, 2014)

I live in wa state near seattle and we shoot for 2000-2500 in 8-10 hours. 3 or 4 guys truck and chipper.


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## RDAA (Mar 5, 2014)

I am currently on my last couple of days of my day job. I have been running a tree service part time for the last three years. When I take a week off of the day job and do tree work I can most of the time gross 4 to 5k per week. A lot of days are long but you have to make hay when the sun shines I guess. I am taking the plunge due to the hatred of my day job and my wife having sweet family health coverage for everyone. I for the most part enjoy the business part of it and most of the people I deal with are pretty decent. I am looking forward to the variety and challenges this job has. The last couple of years I have grossed 80 to 100k. I have a lot of decent good looking used equipment and have about ten grand owed against it and about ten grand in my business account. I cleared about 28 thousand on the books and about fifteen grand for my front pocket. Last year at my day job I grossed 38,000. I know what I would really want to do with my life. In my area 100 grand will give you the choice of 90 percent of the houses in town for comparison for the cost of living. I can usually do 1100 to 1400 per day sometimes up to 2000 with two guys. My competition does good jobs at removals for the most part but wouldn't know what the difference between a tailpipe and a port a wrap. He doesn't climb. He doesn't even own a wood chipper, and his idea is that top handle saws are a waste of money. His pruning sucks he is a flush cutting tree topping maniac. Plus he gouges people because he had been the only local guy in a 30 mile radius. But he makes a ton of money. I can easily do 125 bucks to 150 an hour with my bucket most days. I bid a job for two pretty easy walnut trees that I could have down and cleaned up with two guys and six hours for twelve hundred bucks. The guy just about jumped on me and gave me a hug! I can only imagine what the other bid was. I am pretty blessed with our market here. I look like a hero and still make good money. For reference a tractor backhoe rate here is 90 an hour a 250 sized excavator is about 150 to 175. I don't want to be a low baller but my goal is to bring proper tree care to the area, with a fair price to the customer and fair price to me also. I want to keep a small, low cost operation for now and see how it goes and do great work for people. I haven't advertised other than business cards and my volume keeps going up and up. I'm not trying to be a millionaire in a year but I just want to make a honest living and not be broke and treat everyone fair.


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## gorman (Mar 6, 2014)

Big Natey said:


> I dont own the business i work for but im pretty high on the totem pole and good freinds with the owner.
> 
> Our target is 4000 a day, but thats with 6 guys, a crane, 40 yard chip truck, 18 inch chipper, big skid steer, bucket truck, and a 100+ yard loader truck.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you're not in my area. Jeez. I'd be eating ramen.


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## mckeetree (Mar 6, 2014)

brockhaskins said:


> I live in wa state near seattle and we shoot for 2000-2500 in 8-10 hours. 3 or 4 guys truck and chipper.



That's what we should be getting here, near Dallas, TX. It's tough to get more than $1,400 a day for a four man crew with a bucket truck and chipper when you have outfits like Juan's First Choice Tree Care working a six man crew for $800 a day.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 6, 2014)

I am gonna diversify more this and really focus on the installation and maintenance of smaller plant material . Wind breaks ... Privacy live fences . There is some good money in the smaller aspect of tree care . Even street tree installation on new home complexes


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## mic687 (Mar 6, 2014)

This is my second full time job so I go job to job, not per day. We have a couple of large outfits here that charge huge sums but the will have loaders, spyder tracks, large chipper, stumper and like 5 to 7 guys per job on most jobs. I get all my work by word of mouth and seem ot get as much as I can do with my son and I. We just took down a 3 lead white pine leaving all wood and brush for 460.00 and it took about 2.5 hrs, for removals I shoot for 125.00 and hr for the two of us. There is alot of guys with a saw, spurs and no insurance around here to eat up all the easy dollar stuff, which sucks alittle because I get alot of hard stuff and I often wonder if I dont charge enough for my skill level. It is a fine line between feeling you are getting what you should and not getting the job.


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## old_soul (Mar 6, 2014)

mic687 said:


> This is my second full time job so I go job to job, not per day. We have a couple of large outfits here that charge huge sums but the will have loaders, spyder tracks, large chipper, stumper and like 5 to 7 guys per job on most jobs. I get all my work by word of mouth and seem ot get as much as I can do with my son and I. We just took down a 3 lead white pine leaving all wood and brush for 460.00 and it took about 2.5 hrs, for removals I shoot for 125.00 and hr for the two of us. There is alot of guys with a saw, spurs and no insurance around here to eat up all the easy dollar stuff, which sucks alittle because I get alot of hard stuff and I often wonder if I dont charge enough for my skill level. It is a fine line between feeling you are getting what you should and not getting the job.




Man I hate jobs like that. I can't believe the amount of calls I get lately for "can you just put it on the ground" 

I can understand if somebody wants to keep wood for burning but who wants a pile of brush left 8 feet high in the yard.

Taking the equipment out of a job often takes out the profit as well.............


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## mic687 (Mar 6, 2014)

old_soul said:


> Man I hate jobs like that. I can't believe the amount of calls I get lately for "can you just put it on the ground"
> 
> I can understand if somebody wants to keep wood for burning but who wants a pile of brush left 8 feet high in the yard.
> 
> Taking the equipment out of a job often takes out the profit as well.............


 We have alot of folks around here that live in wooded areas and want to dispose of the wood and brush themselves. I always leave stuff as neat as possible when we do this, I tell my son stack it like you had to deal with it later. I never leave brush in town as I think it looks like some of the hacks around here did it and I am proud of the work we do.


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## climb4fun (Mar 7, 2014)

Company i work for pulls $1000 per day, per man and this year hes pushing us for 1400. about 15 men. Usually 2-4 men per crew. chipper truck, chipper, a first tier climber, second tier climber, maybe bucket truck, stump grinder or any special gear we need. We just finished a $35,000 gig in 2 1/2 days with all men and all equipment for a big campsite. Were a big company though and have been around for 27 years.


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## capetrees (Mar 7, 2014)

If I can gross $1200-$1500 per day regardless of what I do I'm really happy. Usually $1000 per day gross is average. But keep in mind, I don't do this full time.


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## gorman (Mar 7, 2014)

climb4fun said:


> Company i work for pulls $1000 per day, per man and this year hes pushing us for 1400. about 15 men. Usually 2-4 men per crew. chipper truck, chipper, a first tier climber, second tier climber, maybe bucket truck, stump grinder or any special gear we need. We just finished a $35,000 gig in 2 1/2 days with all men and all equipment for a big campsite. Were a big company though and have been around for 27 years.


Ehhhh, could ya define first and second tier climber.


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## climb4fun (Mar 7, 2014)

gorman said:


> Ehhhh, could ya define first and second tier climber.


First tier climbers are the more skilled/experienced climbers and are often the foreman On crew. Second tier climbers are essentially, climbers in training who serve as groundsmen. We only have 2 guys who dont either climb or work from a bucket truck.


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## capetrees (Mar 7, 2014)

climb4fun said:


> Company i work for pulls $1000 per day, per man and this year hes pushing us for 1400. about 15 men. Usually 2-4 men per crew. chipper truck, chipper, a first tier climber, second tier climber, maybe bucket truck, stump grinder or any special gear we need. We just finished a $35,000 gig in 2 1/2 days with all men and all equipment for a big campsite. Were a big company though and have been around for 27 years.


 
Am I reading this right? $15K per day and wants to increase it to $21K perday? what?


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## climb4fun (Mar 7, 2014)

Yup. We wont be able to pull it off every day but we get quarterly bonuses for every week we average $140 per man, per hour on crew.


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## mckeetree (Mar 7, 2014)

capetrees said:


> Am I reading this right? $15K per day and wants to increase it to $21K perday? what?



That would be just an unimaginable dream for us.


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## mckeetree (Mar 7, 2014)

climb4fun said:


> Yup. We wont be able to pull it off every day but we get quarterly bonuses for every week we average $140 per man, per hour on crew.



More dream world stuff. Are you an Aboriginal? They take those walk abouts out in the dream world.


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## climb4fun (Mar 7, 2014)

Lmao, I live in the American nw. Up here we call those patchouli stinkin hippies


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## Toddppm (Mar 7, 2014)

climb4fun said:


> Yup. We wont be able to pull it off every day but we get quarterly bonuses for every week we average $140 per man, per hour on crew.




Is that on the job time or per man per hour for the whole day from start to finish?


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## capetrees (Mar 7, 2014)

climb4fun said:


> Yup. We wont be able to pull it off every day but we get quarterly bonuses for every week we average $140 per man, per hour on crew.


 
Mind if I ask what the average guy makes per hour on these crews?


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 7, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> I am gonna diversify more this and really focus on the installation and maintenance of smaller plant material . Wind breaks ... Privacy live fences . There is some good money in the smaller aspect of tree care . Even street tree installation on new home complexes



Gettin' lazy???? 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 7, 2014)

I find it weird that alot of you guys are talking $$$,, Love it,, keep it coming,,opcorn:
Jeff


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## capetrees (Mar 7, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> I find it weird that alot of you guys are talking $$$,, Love it,, keep it coming,,opcorn:
> Jeff


 

Why is it weird?


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## climb4fun (Mar 7, 2014)

Toddppm said:


> Is that on the job time or per man per hour for the whole day from start to finish?


Whole day. We work mon.-Thurs. 10 hr shifts, Fridays optional when there is o.t. to pick up


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## climb4fun (Mar 7, 2014)

caes said:


> Mind if I ask what the average guy makes per hour on these crews?


Depend on expersince. Ranges from 12-35"ish" theres really no wage cap, it just depends on how valuable you make yourself and he pays attention to production numbers. If he sees that certain groups worK well together he tries to keep those groups together. Hes a smart guy and hes actually really great to work for. Medical Benifits, bonuses, vacation time, holidays paid, decent equipment. Almost like a union job but not paying union dues.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 8, 2014)

I try to get $1500 -$2000 a day. I try to get $50 a hour per man and per piece of equipment that goes to the job.



The biggest problem with our industry is there is tons of low ballers. Mechanics all basically charge the same price and if all tree guys would get on the same page we would all make a great living. For example. I bid a 10 pine tree removal plus stumps job for $3500. Someone else gave them a price of $5000. The guy that did the job did it for $1500. I talked to him and I would hope it made him sick thinking about how much money he left on the table.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## millbilly (Mar 8, 2014)

I don't even get out of bed unless I'm gonna make $1332.17. That's a 7 hour workday too, no lunch, no breaks nothing but slave. I made $1332.14 one day last week and there were no bonuses that month, should have seen the sad faces that payday. I bet that crew picks it up the next week, lol I'm such a slave driver, no bonuses over 3 cents. I love the internet, puppies, and a blue sky.


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## broken branch tree (Mar 8, 2014)

We work in northern Ohio also, been here doing this for 23 yrs now, try for 1100 day, bucket chip truck three guys. Crane goes, gotta up charge for that. Best thing we ever did was pull all ads from yellow pages, papers, etc. Sure you do lots of estimates, but how many jobs do you get from the price shoppers? Get all the pro certs you can, creative marketing to the clients you want to work for, show the advantages of professional tree care and you will be happier. Let the landscapers, ladder and pickup guys mutilate trees and raise our insurance rates, they won't be around long, and won't get repeat work or referrals. Oh and to some of the other posters above, we def were making more yrs back too. Some reason our industry seems like the go to for everyone to make " easy money".


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## teamtree (Mar 8, 2014)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I try to get $1500 -$2000 a day. I try to get $50 a hour per man and per piece of equipment that goes to the job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But was he at 1500 because he has no insurance or was he legit and just bid it low.

I am 100% with you but I don't want to see the guys without insurance and ppe....getting more for doing less in the way of being professionals.


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## teamtree (Mar 8, 2014)

millbilly said:


> I don't even get out of bed unless I'm gonna make $1332.17. That's a 7 hour workday too, no lunch, no breaks nothing but slave. I made $1332.14 one day last week and there were no bonuses that month, should have seen the sad faces that payday. I bet that crew picks it up the next week, lol I'm such a slave driver, no bonuses over 3 cents. I love the internet, puppies, and a blue sky.


Sounds like you have a great work force and some people willing to go to bat for you......screw them over .03 cents?.....sounds like you are just taking advantage of them IMHO.....at least have the balls to round up to an even dollar amount....lol


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## teamtree (Mar 8, 2014)

Big Natey said:


> I dont own the business i work for but im pretty high on the totem pole and good freinds with the owner.
> 
> Our target is 4000 a day, but thats with 6 guys, a crane, 40 yard chip truck, 18 inch chipper, big skid steer, bucket truck, and a 100+ yard loader truck.
> 
> ...


$4000 with a crane and 6 guys? What type of crane?


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 8, 2014)

teamtree said:


> But was he at 1500 because he has no insurance or was he legit and just bid it low.
> 
> I am 100% with you but I don't want to see the guys without insurance and ppe....getting more for doing less in the way of being professionals.


He has liability insurance but he doesn't carry workers comp for the guys that work for him. In pa it's a criminal offense to not have workers comp. He had a climber fall out of a tree and break his leg last year. The guys just real unsafe. He bids all of his work super low. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## Big Natey (Mar 8, 2014)

teamtree said:


> $4000 with a crane and 6 guys? What type of crane?



Its a 36,000lb 70' altec I believe. Its the perfect size we literally use it on every single job. It surprises people the places we put that bad boy. We had a terex that had the wire which ran outside the boom (didn't work very well) we bought this new one at an auction and didn't pay **** for it.

We cut a lot of pines, gums, and oak trees down here. Most pines we ride the ball to the top, strap it, cut it in half, winch it to the chipper, and chip the whole top, drop the log, cut it to length, load it up and hit the road. Oaks ,and gums are the same way unless they crown out. Then we just pick whole leaders and stick them in the chipper.


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## teamtree (Mar 8, 2014)

You know I am not one for bigger government but I would not mind having them more involved in our industry...if it would allow me to play the game fairly and make some money. I am tired of just getting by or trying to find ways to cheat the system like others. I would like to be able to afford to have first aid kits on every truck and keep them updated, I want to train my guys, I want to take my time and rope everything, I want to hire a crane in instead of dropping it whole and hoping it all goes ok. I feel like I have one legit competitor. I would love to pay my guys with cash every week and then pocket 20% I would save on taxes and workers comp.


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## BC WetCoast (Mar 8, 2014)

Big Natey said:


> Its a 36,000lb 70' altec I believe. Its the perfect size we literally use it on every single job. It surprises people the places we put that bad boy. We had a terex that had the wire which ran outside the boom (didn't work very well) we bought this new one at an auction and didn't pay **** for it.
> 
> We cut a lot of pines, gums, and oak trees down here. Most pines we ride the ball to the top, strap it, cut it in half, winch it to the chipper, and chip the whole top, drop the log, cut it to length, load it up and hit the road. Oaks ,and gums are the same way unless they crown out. Then we just pick whole leaders and stick them in the chipper.



You use a crane on a japanese maple prune? Wow.


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## FanOFatherNash (Mar 9, 2014)

Sunrise Guy said:


> If you've been on this forum for a good while, you come to understand that so many just blow smoke, on here. They post these rates and/or make statements like, "Man, I'm only getting $4000 per day, now, and I can't keep making ends meet if this keeps up!" Knock a zero off, and you might be close to the actual $$ these guys are taking in, daily. Just figure it out, and you'll arrive at more truthful figures. Sure, some days you might pull in $3-5 G's, but daily? Not unless you're in on the Big O / Big Green sweetheart contracts with municipalities and their surrounding utilities. I have pm'd some of the guys posting larger daily takes, and when you start questioning them with prosecuting attorney type interrogatives, they knuckle under and/or end up telling me that they can't discuss particulars. That's because they are true bs artists up until they can't keep pumping it out. One guy, one of the more truthful fellows on here, openly admitted to me that he posted highly inflated figures just to intimidate others on here. With that in mind, take some/most of the posted figures in here as the output of blowhards and little else.



I am pulling 6k a day like a boss 
with a Nissan exterra and single axel trailer


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## millbilly (Mar 9, 2014)

FanOFatherNash said:


> I am pulling 6k a day like a boss
> with a Nissan exterra and single axel trailer



What did I just watch?


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## cedar (Mar 9, 2014)

Interesting post. I'm not worried about the uninsured, in my area it's the legitimate competition that is driving the price down. My main competitor will show up with his 28t crane, 18" chipper, log truck, dump truck, bucket, and 4 guys for $2200 a day. You would think that he is working himself out-of-business but he's still here. My plan is to diversify so that I no longer have to rely on tree work as my sole income. I have been running my business for 8 years and have a good equipment and reputation but am I tired of the race to the bottom.


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## millbilly (Mar 9, 2014)

cedar said:


> Interesting post. I'm not worried about the uninsured, in my area it's the legitimate competition that is driving the price down. My main competitor will show up with his 28t crane, 18" chipper, log truck, dump truck, bucket, and 4 guys for $2200 a day. You would think that he is working himself out-of-business but he's still here. My plan is to diversify so that I no longer have to rely on tree work as my sole income. I have been running my business for 8 years and have a good equipment and reputation but am I tired of the race to the bottom.



Just how does he drive 5 trucks with 4 guys? $2200 sounds about right, $800/900 labor and cost. $600 equipment cost. $500/$600 profit. Even $400 profit a day is over 100k a year. I can live on that. Only 20% of all america earns over $100k. That's one in 5 people. I love the internet, and blue skies!


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## TreeAce (Mar 9, 2014)

broken branch tree said:


> We work in northern Ohio also, been here doing this for 23 yrs now, try for 1100 day, bucket chip truck three guys. Crane goes, gotta up charge for that. Best thing we ever did was pull all ads from yellow pages, papers, etc. Sure you do lots of estimates, but how many jobs do you get from the price shoppers? Get all the pro certs you can, creative marketing to the clients you want to work for, show the advantages of professional tree care and you will be happier. Let the landscapers, ladder and pickup guys mutilate trees and raise our insurance rates, they won't be around long, and won't get repeat work or referrals. Oh and to some of the other posters above, we def were making more yrs back too. Some reason our industry seems like the go to for everyone to make " easy money".


I am both happy and sad to read this post. Glad that I am not fooling myself about what a crew can get in north central ohio but kinda sad that its true. I know some outfits here that get 2500-3500 a day but thats with a full arsenal. Bucket,crane,log trailer,big chip truck, good size stumper or two,and an 18 inch chipper w/ knuckle boom. So getting around 1000 a day with a chip truck,12 inch chipper,smaller dump truck and a smaller stumper I figure I am doing pretty ok all things considered. I also agree that the phone book ads suck. Everything would be a lot better if it wasnt for this dam workers comp. That chit cleans me out just when things are looking good. seems like a racket......


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## cedar (Mar 9, 2014)

Millbilly,

Judging by how you price labor and equipment, I can see how others also mistake the true cost of running a business.


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## millbilly (Mar 9, 2014)

well show me some numbers, I ballParked them and I know I'm within 10 percent. Oh thats right i read it on the internet.


cedar said:


> Millbilly,
> 
> Judging by how you price labor and equipment, I can see how others also mistake the true cost of running a business.


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## FanOFatherNash (Mar 9, 2014)

In all honesty, doesnt matter what some one else is making or claim they are making
I am just trying to do the best I can do, 


millbilly said:


> What did I just watch?


That is me doing tree work


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 9, 2014)

I hear ya Fan!,,I ain't throwing out numbers, but our per day is more than what I have read here. I have 8 climbers and 7 ground/drivers,, working 6 days a week. I won't do the math here tho,,opcorn:
Jeff


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## TreeAce (Mar 9, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> I hear ya Fan!,,I ain't throwing out numbers, but our per day is more than what I have read here. I have 8 climbers and 7 ground/drivers,, working 6 days a week. I won't do the math here tho,,opcorn:
> Jeff


Plus thats in california dollars so you will need some extra fingers and toes to figure it....


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## millbilly (Mar 9, 2014)

FanOFatherNash said:


> In all honesty, doesnt matter what some one else is making or claim they are making
> I am just trying to do the best I can do,
> 
> That is me doing tree work


That's cool, way to be. Why do you carry so much stuff with you?


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## mckeetree (Mar 9, 2014)

Well, I really believe it's like another member and I decided in a PM about a year ago...when it comes to money about 80% of what gets posted on here is BS anyway. We also decided even that figure was subject to regional variations with post from some regions being about 98% BS.


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## teamtree (Mar 9, 2014)

Even with the possibility of it being ********....it is irrelevant of what guys are grossing in a days time.....some carry very little OH and other carry a very big OH.....plus equipment costs are subject to huge variations. At the end of the day, it is about profit and controlling expenses. 

I like to use a crane but I don't think I would buy one. I would have to do an extra $50-75k in sales just to cover the expense. OK....it makes me more efficient.....that means I need to find more work for the crew because they need to work a full day. So, if you do a million in sales and you profit 100k is that better than doing 500K and profit 100k?

I am sure no one is making business decisions based upon internet conversations. I just like the discussions.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2014)

You think that a guy working with a few small trucks and all the machines he "needs" to remove a tree is making less then the guy with all the **** ! With all the large **** comes large ...... Even gigantic expense for what ? If I jump in the truck with Joey bag a donuts and we go out with 2 trucks a chipper and the mini and stumper you think 12/1300 is chump change takes me 2 days to pay all the expenses for the week and them if I "choose" to work the 3rd and 4th day that week it's all mine ! LOL I wouldn't trade that at this point of my life . I don't want Jeff's stress and he's just the manager there's stress above his "tiers of tears " LOL


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## gorman (Mar 10, 2014)

Tiers of tears. Ha.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 10, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> You think that a guy working with a few small trucks and all the machines he "needs" to remove a tree is making less then the guy with all the **** ! With all the large **** comes large ...... Even gigantic expense for what ? If I jump in the truck with Joey bag a donuts and we go out with 2 trucks a chipper and the mini and stumper you think 12/1300 is chump change takes me 2 days to pay all the expenses for the week and them if I "choose" to work the 3rd and 4th day that week it's all mine ! LOL I wouldn't trade that at this point of my life . I don't want Jeff's stress and he's just the manager there's stress above his "tiers of tears " LOL



Yup,, stress alot of stress, alot. 
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 11, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yup,, stress alot of stress, alot.
> Jeff


I know that pain.


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## arborjockey (Mar 17, 2014)

I work for 2 company's here in Hawaii that pay me more to do the trees then the company gets. 
This place has been so low bid so many times by big companies just trying to get the job that the job doesn't even pay. It's a joke. Trees that take an hour to prune are bringing in 45 bucks. Then again he's kind of a genius . He now does every hotel for a 100 miles. He has idiots do the easy stuff and then pays me to come in and blast out the big work. He puts 99% of his profits back into the company. He'll pay me the profit he made to prune the personal residents of management. He lives in a shack I wouldn't poop in but runs a monopoly.
Me I'm the opposite my bids are always the top 2.
NEVER SELL THE PRICE. SELL YOURSELF. YOUR GOING WITH THE OTHER COMPANY. ....GOOD LUCK WITH THAT


FanOFatherNash said:


> I am pulling 6k a day like a boss
> with a Nissan exterra and single axel trailer




Wait what? Who cleans up ? 6k buy a handsaw...and tighten your chain boss....and please post more videos


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## FanOFatherNash (Mar 17, 2014)

millbilly said:


> That's cool, way to be. Why do you carry so much stuff with you?


Not really me, a video i found on youtube year back , always thought it was ridiculous 
I am to lazy to use a handsaw that much


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