# What friction hitch do you use and why/when?



## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

I've been experimenting with different hitches lately. I'm usually a distel guy, but given my lighter weight(about 165lbs) and choice of rope(Velocity), I find it can have it's limitations. I want a hitch that can hold up a lighter weight guy without too much binding, and be easily adjustable for things like limbwalking. So, I messed around with the VT, and my co-workers own version of the VT. Both seem to hold me without so many wraps that it binds too much. Still, I feel I'll always be wanting the "perfect" hitch. What's everyones go to hitch and how does it fit your style of climbing?


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

This what I use, it's a variation of the french prussik. I tried the VT and didn't like it, it seemed to bind up on me and was harder to tend my slack. Their might be some controversy as to wether this is a good hitch for climbing. I weigh a 150lbs. I've been using this hitch for 5 years and haven't found anything that even compares. It is six wraps with none of the wraps peeled down. It takes some time for your prussik cord to break in and adapt to the hitch so when you first start climbing on it make sure you check that your hitch is grabbing when tending your slack.


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## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

NCTree, are you using that with a hitch climber type pulley?


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

A little something to add; i find that it works better on larger diameter ropes, the velocity it seems to bind slightly when decending. Works great on arbormaster ropes. If you have any beeline you could try that on the velocity. I used that before when rec climbing, still with that you must check that it's grabbing until the cord get broken in.


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## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

I use HRC, but I would like to give Beeline a shot as well.


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

BRCCArborist said:


> NCTree, are you using that with a hitch climber type pulley?



Yes I use the hitch climber pulley when i'm climbing on my glide saddle. I usually climb on a versatile saddle where i can separate my anchor end from my hitch side, sort like a swing. In that case I use just a regular micro pulley. That is my favorite system to climb on.


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

BRCCArborist said:


> I use HRC, but I would like to give Beeline a shot as well.



i've used HRC too, that might work a little better than tenex


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## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

It works relatively well on Velocity. Works really great on ropes like the Fly and on Tachyon. I found it performs pretty miserably on Poison Ivy, at least with my setup anyway.


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## canopyboy (Dec 31, 2009)

I use a 4/2 XT (reversed VT) with Beeline on most of my 7/16 lines. But the velocity is special. I'm a bit heavier (185), but still have binding problems on velocity. So far I've found that the 3/8 diameter Ultratech in a Distel on velocity works very well with no binding. Beeline, HRC, and Tenex all bind up on velocity something fierce if you load 'em hard. 5/16 ultratech in a XT works too, but not as well as the 3/8 Distel.


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## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

I'll have to add ultratech to my try it list as well. Shame I'm on a budget these days


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

it seems the more i climb on velocity the less i like it. It's good for ascending into the tree but I had more success with poison ivy and arbormaster ropes for running around the tree.


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## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

Velocity is a great footlocking rope, but yeah, I do kind of like the beefier lines for general tree work. We have Snake Bite, and I might start getting into more Static, SRT type lines for ascending. Can't beat the velocity's light weight though.


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## Bermie (Dec 31, 2009)

BRCCArborist said:


> I've been experimenting with different hitches lately. I'm usually a distel guy, but given my lighter weight(about 165lbs) and choice of rope(Velocity), I find it can have it's limitations. I want a hitch that can hold up a lighter weight guy without too much binding, and be easily adjustable for things like limbwalking. So, I messed around with the VT, and my co-workers own version of the VT. Both seem to hold me without so many wraps that it binds too much. Still, I feel I'll always be wanting the "perfect" hitch. What's everyones go to hitch and how does it fit your style of climbing?



I use a 3/2 VT tied with ice tail on XTC Plus...and it works just fine for my 117 lbs...I switched to VT and HC from a blakes, never look back


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

Bermie said:


> I use a 3/2 VT tied with ice tail on XTC Plus...and it works just fine for my 117 lbs...I switched to VT and HC from a blakes, never look back



so you can experiment with the number of wraps + wraps peeled down to get the friction rate right for your weight? I always thought their had to be a standard for the VT.


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## tree MDS (Dec 31, 2009)

I've been using the HC with the 4 wrap 2 braid VT, this is with safety blue (with spliced eye) and 8mm HRC tied with scaffold knots. I find this setup to be superior to the old taughtline for ascending, but it sucks for coming down (I hate that tiny little knot). Also you do want to make sure its got a bite before you lean back on it, especially after a long ascent (unless I dont have it dialed in just right yet - very possible). I've got it pretty short, and still the sitback factor annoys me a little. Pros and cons to both new and old styles I guess... Just my two cents.


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## TreEmergencyB (Dec 31, 2009)

4 wrap 2 turn xt

love it for my climbing style advances like a dream stays together way better than a VT and runs so smooth real nice for limb walking (as long as its not to long) never bound up one me yet im 150lb 

tie it with 3/8 tenex on XTC fire used beeline also but like the way the tenex performs and cost..


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 1, 2010)

I think the VT is the perfect hitch because one can "tune" it for the different rope variations much better then any other hitch. 

If I go to a new rope i may add another wrap, after a pine removal gums up the rope I may drop a wrap. Some lines I will reverse the cords before I braid under the wraps....


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## JeffL (Jan 1, 2010)

Micochoan or whatever you call it. Works great on new cord, but I've got a few pieces of ice tail that it gets to be a nightmare on after some loading. Still alot easier than a closed system with a tautline though! 

Been thinking of trying out the distel or vt, want to find something that keeps that "just tied" feeling, where the rope runs so smooth its like theres no hitch at all when pulling slack through the pulley, yet binds right down when you sit back in it.


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## tree MDS (Jan 1, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> With 4 wraps and 2 braids if it's not catching well when you sit back you've got to shorten it a bit more until it catches every time.



Thanks, I appreciate the tip, I'll have to try that out.


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## BRCCArborist (Jan 1, 2010)

JeffL said:


> Been thinking of trying out the distel or vt, want to find something that keeps that "just tied" feeling, where the rope runs so smooth its like theres no hitch at all when pulling slack through the pulley, yet binds right down when you sit back in it.



Like I said above, I have problems with the Distel keeping a just tied feeling. The VT might be the way to go. I'll keep experimenting.


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## A&Atree (Jan 1, 2010)

*Blakes Hitch*

You guys might think i am crazy for liking the blakes but once i reach the top of the tree the blakes works like a dream i can loosen the hitch if i need it to run extremely fast and i can also always SLOWLY come to a stop and never burn my fingers also it never slips at all. the problem with all of the prusiks 8mm and 10mm they grab so fast plus it is so hard to stop slowly plus after a big drop i got so tired of burning my fingers. Another reason the blakes rule is the cost i can take a piece of 1/2" safety blue cut it about 3 feet tie a fishermans and i am set the climbing rope i use is a 1/2" safety blue


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jan 1, 2010)

BRCCArborist said:


> Like I said above, I have problems with the Distel keeping a just tied feeling. The VT might be the way to go. I'll keep experimenting.



For DdRT: Yale XTC Fire, 30x3/8 BeeLine, Distel works great for me (180lbs + 10-20 for gear) ... you might (if you haven't already) try 'tweaking' the lengths of the tails to tighten or loosen the action. Use Distels on the lanyard, too.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 2, 2010)

A&Atree said:


> Another reason the blakes rule is the cost i can take a piece of 1/2" safety blue cut it about 3 feet tie a fishermans and i am set the climbing rope i use is a 1/2" safety blue



I buy 3/8 Stable Braid and cut hanks off of it for my VT's; with wastage, it is less the $2.00 per hitch.


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## outofmytree (Jan 2, 2010)

A&Atree said:


> You guys might think i am crazy for liking the blakes but once i reach the top of the tree the blakes works like a dream i can loosen the hitch if i need it to run extremely fast and i can also always SLOWLY come to a stop and never burn my fingers also it never slips at all. the problem with all of the prusiks 8mm and 10mm they grab so fast plus it is so hard to stop slowly plus after a big drop i got so tired of burning my fingers. Another reason the blakes rule is the cost i can take a piece of 1/2" safety blue cut it about 3 feet tie a fishermans and i am set the climbing rope i use is a 1/2" safety blue



Each to their own. I can say I have no problem controlling speed in a descent using a variety of prussiks tied in beeline on Yale XTC Fire. I can rappel from my TIP to the ground and simply "break" the knot with my right hand. Only the heat would be an issue but then I also wear gloves for the most part.


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## Onelick (Jan 3, 2010)

Can someone please post a picture of an XT? 
Thanks,
Onelick


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## southernoutdoor (Jan 3, 2010)

Reading this post just depressed the hell out of me! I must be a fat a$$ at 205 i gotta go on a diet


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## Plasmech (Jan 3, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> Four wrap 2 braid Vt. I'm at 195 lbs. and it works perfectly.



TreeCo,

For what it's worth, a local guy told me that on a VT, you want to alternate the braids, meaning that if leg A is inside of leg B on one side, make leg B inside of leg A on the next braid.

(Ever try an XT?)

My VT with alternate braid:


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## TreEmergencyB (Jan 4, 2010)

here is a picture of my XT hard to see the back side only picture i could find


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## Slvrmple72 (Jan 4, 2010)

I started trying the Michoacan on Velocity using a Tenex eye 2 eye. Been using the Distel for awhile but am really starting to like the Michoacan. I also have Dragonfly and Arbormaster lines. I still use Blakes on the Arbormaster from time to time partly to convert my buddy... Don's an old tautliner and don't care much for them new fangled ropes and pulleys and such. If I can get him to try the Blakes I may just be able to bring him over!

My questions for you VT/XT fellas: How do you figure out your length for the eye to eye and based on my previously mentioned climbing lines what would you recommend I buy in a four foot or longer section for experimenting and setup?


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## Plasmech (Jan 4, 2010)

Slvrmple72 said:


> I started trying the Michoacan on Velocity using a Tenex eye 2 eye. Been using the Distel for awhile but am really starting to like the Michoacan. I also have Dragonfly and Arbormaster lines. I still use Blakes on the Arbormaster from time to time partly to convert my buddy... Don's an old tautliner and don't care much for them new fangled ropes and pulleys and such. If I can get him to try the Blakes I may just be able to bring him over!
> 
> My questions for you VT/XT fellas: How do you figure out your length for the eye to eye and based on my previously mentioned climbing lines what would you recommend I buy in a four foot or longer section for experimenting and setup?



I believe most pre-made prusik cords are 30" long...


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 4, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> TreeCo,
> 
> For what it's worth, a local guy told me that on a VT, you want to alternate the braids, meaning that if leg A is inside of leg B on one side, make leg B inside of leg A on the next braid.



My personal experiance is to keep the leg that comes off the top turn as the bottom braid. This helps to keep the barrel from dropping a wrap.

Since I tie off to the beckett of a Fixe, I find that if that leg is on the bottom the pulley tends to tend better.


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## Plasmech (Jan 4, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> My personal experiance is to keep the leg that comes off the top turn as the bottom braid. This helps to keep the barrel from dropping a wrap.
> 
> Since I tie off to the beckett of a Fixe, I find that if that leg is on the bottom the pulley tends to tend better.



Excellent point about the top turn! I'm out of rep otherwise I would give you some.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jan 4, 2010)

Got you both! Thanks for the info. May just have to give the VT a try while I am at it!


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## Plasmech (Jan 4, 2010)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Got you both! Thanks for the info. May just have to give the VT a try while I am at it!



Oh dude...I just went to give you rep and I accidentally deducted it. My serious apologies. Perhaps a moderator will see this and fix it. Sorry man! Geeze...


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## TreEmergencyB (Jan 4, 2010)

Slvrmple72 said:


> My questions for you VT/XT fellas: How do you figure out your length for the eye to eye and based on my previously mentioned climbing lines what would you recommend I buy in a four foot or longer section for experimenting and setup?



i bought a bunch of tenex and made my own, i had a bee-line premade on that was just a lil short for my liking so the first one i made was a lil bit long and i just keep tunin it to where i like havnt meausered it but i think its around 28"


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## voxac30dude (Jan 5, 2010)

4 wrap 2 braid VT 30" technora eye to eye on an XTC spearmint 
with a fixed Petzl micro pully and a petzl william caribiner! works good for me and i weigh 150 :biggrinbounce2:


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## treejock1 (Jan 9, 2010)

*Good ole blakes*

I've been using blue streak rope and blakes hitch in a split tail setup with a micro pully for a long time and have not really found any reason to change. At 150 lbs I don't have any binding probs. I even footlock with it when I don't have too far to go. Addmittidly I've not experimented with alot of the gear that has come out in the last 10 yrs or so but this has worked well for me. Am I just gettin stubborn in my old age? lol


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## Bermie (Jan 9, 2010)

NCTREE said:


> so you can experiment with the number of wraps + wraps peeled down to get the friction rate right for your weight? I always thought their had to be a standard for the VT.



I dunno...I just count a wrap as one full circle around the rope...


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 9, 2010)

Bermie said:


> I dunno...I just count a wrap as one full circle around the rope...



Ayup, one turn around the rope, a round turn will look like two wraps.



> so you can experiment with the number of wraps + wraps peeled down to get the friction rate right for your weight? I always thought their had to be a standard for the VT.



A vt is a set of turns followed by a braid, there is other criteria, other then it has to hold and release with ease.


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## Adkpk (Jan 9, 2010)

Vt because it's the best hitch going. When? When I need to not slip back down the rope.:greenchainsaw: I always have a split tail with me in case I need to swing to another part of the tree with the tail end of my rope and then I use a blakes.


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## The Lawn Shark (Jan 9, 2010)

4/2 vt


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 9, 2010)

Adkpk said:


> Vt because it's the best hitch going. When? When I need to not slip back down the rope.:greenchainsaw: I always have a split tail with me in case I need to swing to another part of the tree with the tail end of my rope and then I use a blakes.



We call that double crotching here, is that used there, or is it a colloquialism?


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## Adkpk (Jan 10, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> We call that double crotching here, is that used there, or is it a colloquialism?



"Colloquialism"? Had to look that one up. No it's not. I have heard it used only on here, AS, but by east coasters too. I do think it's the industries standard term for using your tail end to move about. 

But I am not the one to ask seeing everything I know is form this web site. I have only once climbed with other climbers (that would be the Boston crowd from this site). And yet I am still the best in the business. :greenchainsaw:


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## Live Oak (Jan 12, 2010)

BRCCArborist said:


> I use HRC, but I would like to give Beeline a shot as well.


started using bee line last season & i still havnot had 2 retire it. Replaced ropegrabs on my fliplines with beeline as well.


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## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2010)

Live Oak said:


> started using bee line last season & i still havnot had 2 retire it. Replaced ropegrabs on my fliplines with beeline as well.



Bee Line is nice stuff, it grabs really well.


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## Live Oak (Jan 12, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> Bee Line is nice stuff, it grabs really well.


ilearned rite away that the diameter of the chord matters to the diameter of the rope. was tying in off my stationary knot b4 that


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## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2010)

Live Oak said:


> ilearned rite away that the diameter of the chord matters to the diameter of the rope. was tying in off my stationary knot b4 that



Yea, 90% of the time you want a hitch cord that's smaller in diameter than your climbline.


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## Live Oak (Jan 12, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> Yea, 90% of the time you want a hitch cord that's smaller in diameter than your climbline.


i bought a 12" strap i use on the hook with a beaner 4 tyingin when hoisting trees. the operator can remove the slack in the straps b4 i repell 2 my cut. plus it makes t- strapping much safer & more efficient.


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## Live Oak (Jan 12, 2010)

BRCCArborist said:


> I've been experimenting with different hitches lately. I'm usually a distel guy, but given my lighter weight(about 165lbs) and choice of rope(Velocity), I find it can have it's limitations. I want a hitch that can hold up a lighter weight guy without too much binding, and be easily adjustable for things like limbwalking. So, I messed around with the VT, and my co-workers own version of the VT. Both seem to hold me without so many wraps that it binds too much. Still, I feel I'll always be wanting the "perfect" hitch. What's everyones go to hitch and how does it fit your style of climbing?


used taughtlinehitch 4 10 years:unsafe; blakes hitch 4 2years:great hitch;used V.T. last season & i don't think i'll switch again.


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## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2010)

Live Oak said:


> used taughtlinehitch 4 10 years:unsafe; blakes hitch 4 2years:great hitch;used V.T. last season & i don't think i'll switch again.



I've had instances where a perfectly tied and set VT doesn't grab after it loosens up just a bit from being advanced. It really makes me think...


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## Live Oak (Jan 12, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I've had instances where a perfectly tied and set VT doesn't grab after it loosens up just a bit from being advanced. It really makes me think...


I tie 2 down 2 up & braid top over bottom down as many times as the chord's length will alow. then i set splices on beener, snap clip underneath, set pulley on rope under hitch & attatch 2 snap clip. when i tie it that way i haven't had a problem. I use a biting prusik on my fipline. not sure of the name.


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