# Life in the tree..



## bclure (Jun 30, 2007)

So, I am pretty new to climbing. I took the arbormaster L1 class and did some practicing. I did a take-down on a huge white pine Friday. I climbed it, limbing on the way up. Took the top off and blocked down. Being new, I was pretty cautious. I used my lanyard, spikes and continually advanced my climbing line. I think that I got a little de-hydrated. I did have water sent up, but I don't think that I drank nearly enough. I had too pee most of the day and I think that kept me from drinking enough? I was in the tree for over 7 hours. 

How do you guys deal with this? 

Brendan:newbie:


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## Thillmaine (Jun 30, 2007)

*Pee off the tree or...*

Find a good stopping point and come down and piss. Nothing you can do about mother nature.. Or if oyu feel as if you can hide your junk have a bottle sent up, make sure it is big enough, because pinching it off just doenst cvut the mustard. The duece is the worst in the tree, it inhabits your entire mind, cant even think straight, must be taken care of ASAP...


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## ddhlakebound (Jun 30, 2007)

It's hard to not get dehydrated being in the tree that long. Was that all in one shot, without coming down?

I don't know how big the tree was, or it's placement, but if you could drop everything with no rigging 7 hours seem sort of long to me. Thats not a bad thing, it just means you're being cautious and very deliberate with everything you do in the tree. You'll get faster with experience, and that will help with dehydration, because you won't be in the air for as long. 

On a 7 hour climb I'd probably break that into 2 climbs, with a little time to eat, rehydrate, relax a minute, and pee. Having water sent up helps, but if you are sweating non stop it's hard to drink enough to stay hydrated. Some guys swear by their camel backs. Its a small backpack that holds water with a sip tube, so you can take a drink whenever you want with no effort.

If you're getting dry to the point you start to get a headache, or muscle cramps, get yourself some liquid, and a break. You gotta keep your body happy if you expect it to go for you all the time.


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## joesawer (Jun 30, 2007)

If you are going to be in trees for long periods of time very often, learn the single or double rope ascending techniques, figure out which one works best for you. Using ascenders I come down for lunch or to take a bathroom break, because I can be back 100' up in a matter of minutes without a lot of energy being used up.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jul 1, 2007)

In addition to getting water dont forget to refuel with gatorade,bananas,oranges,etc-stuff that will keep you from cramping up and keep your level of electrolytes good. Dont worry, the more trees you do the better your nerves will get, the quicker you will become, and the bathroom breaks will decrease. Oh, wait that last one is not true, when you gotta go you gotta go! Just warn the groundies!:greenchainsaw:


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## bclure (Jul 1, 2007)

*Very good feedback, thank you.*

Some great feeback guys. I do think that the problem was compounded by my inexperience. I worried that if I came back down, I wouldn't have the energy to make it back up. Not the best or safest reason to stay in the tree. Not to mention the fear factor, clinging tighter than I needed to. Learned a lot on that climb.

Thanks again,
Brendan


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## geofore (Jul 1, 2007)

*fear factor*

I've been helping a guy learn to climb and half his enegy is used up from being tense/fear in the air. He worries the knots won't hold, the limb will break, something is going to go wrong. Until you get more time under your belt go slow and get used to being off the ground. On the job you wouldn't have time/we want production. So practice climbing on your day off. One hour in the tree and take a break/come down and rest then go back and repeat the climb. The fear never goes away, you just spent less energy worring about what can go wrong when you begin to trust yourself and your equipment to work/hold right. Time and practice. Seven hours is a long time to be in one tree, take a break, you can climb up a second time. When you are new to climbing you are asking a lot of muscles to work that don't get used when your feet are on the ground. All those muscles have to be trained to work together and this takes a lot of extra energy the first few climbs just to get them to work.


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## treesquirrel (Jul 1, 2007)

7 hours in one swipe is a lot. 

Get yourself a lunch container which can easily be tied into the rope to drag up snacks and drinks. I try not to spend more than 3-4 hours a lick but for me to be in a tree that long means it is one helluva tree.

I prefer to pull up refreshments and take breaks in the canopy and stay in the tree until the job is done. Unlesss of course nature calls.

Be sure to get yourself a comfortable saddle as this will make a huge difference.

Best regards, and safe climbing.


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## bushinspector (Jul 3, 2007)

The bottom line is if your pee is NOTclear you are not drinking enough. Urine should not be Yellow.


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## clearance (Jul 3, 2007)

bushinspector said:


> The bottom line is if your pee is NOTclear you are not drinking enough. Urine should not be Yellow.



True, other good advice here too. 7 hours is way to long in a tree, especially for a beginer. I pound them as fast as I can, if it took a long time I would come down. Maybe 3 hours at the most, the tree isn't going anywhere.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 3, 2007)

bushinspector said:


> The bottom line is if your pee is NOTclear you are not drinking enough. Urine should not be Yellow.



Well now I learned something today but I pee yeller
so wth


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## clearance (Jul 3, 2007)

ropensaddle said:


> Well now I learned something today but I pee yeller
> so wth



Thats cause you ain't drinking enough water, its a fact, when its hot and you are working hard you have to drink a lot, along with the right foods.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 3, 2007)

clearance said:


> Thats cause you ain't drinking enough water, its a fact, when its hot and you are working hard you have to drink a lot, along with the right foods.


Thanks I may start drinking more water as I
seem to p yeller all the time even when cold and don't want kidney
problems drink way too much diet coke. Tried to rep spread it


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## bushinspector (Jul 3, 2007)

Yep, water is the key. If you wait before you get thirsty you are already behind the game.


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## rbtree (Jul 3, 2007)

ropensaddle said:


> Thanks I may start drinking more water as I
> seem to p yeller all the time even when cold and don't want kidney
> problems drink way too much diet coke. Tried to rep spread it



Diet coke...and anything with nutrasweet in it should be avoided...aspartame is poison.....


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## Mitchell (Jul 3, 2007)

*energy*



bclure said:


> Some great feeback guys. I do think that the problem was compounded by my inexperience. I worried that if I came back down, I wouldn't have the energy to make it back up. Not the best or safest reason to stay in the tree. Not to mention the fear factor, clinging tighter than I needed to. Learned a lot on that climb.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Brendan



Brendan, I'm sure every one can relate. I used more energy on my first few climbs then I do in a week now. I would come down with my hands cramping into fists from dehydration and the death grip I had on my lanyard! Be carefull It does not effect your judgement, I found early on I would make higher risk cuts [out of position, awkward cuts or big tops etc] just to aviod climbing around more. For me, once I learned to free climb ropes effeciantly getting in and out of trees is just an inconvienance now.


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## Micke (Jul 3, 2007)

If you just drink water your body will be leached and in consequence of that you have muscle cramp and headache. I always carry a little bottle with sea salt and take a little taste when i drink my water. As long as it taste good, your body needs it. A long day in the tee needs you to be clear in your head.

Michael
(Sorry for my spelling, I'm Swedish you know)


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## rb_in_va (Jul 3, 2007)

ropensaddle said:


> Well now I learned something today but I pee yeller
> so wth



Urine luck! Drink more water.


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## DonnyO (Jul 3, 2007)

rbtree said:


> Diet coke...and anything with nutrasweet in it should be avoided...aspartame is poison.....



and any other "soft drinks" 

stick to H2O or one of the sports drink. I freeze a bottle of water every night and add gatorade to it throughout the morning. 

And to the thread starter: good for you for sticking it out to get the job done. chaulk it up to training and get ready for the next one.:chainsawguy:


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## rahtreelimbs (Jul 3, 2007)

For me water is a constant necessity! I sweat like there is no tomorrow. If I have a big prune job I will hang a jug of water up in the tree!!!


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## Bermie (Jul 3, 2007)

I tended to stay up in the tree right to the bitter end of the job... then I realized I was doing myself no favours, not eating or drinking enough.
Now I take two big bottles of gatorade, and water and take a lunch break if its an all day affair. You HAVE to feed your body, and your brain! electrolytes, some protein, carbohydrates. Gatorade, a sandwich with fish or meat, bananas, plain potato chips.
A break gives you time to relax and get a fresh perspective, something that might have been giving you fits before lunch, goes smoothly after!
As for the pee thing, if you hold it that long you are actually retaining the poisons your body wants to eliminate, if you don't feel the need to pee than you are probably dehydrating.

Keep posting!!!


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## 03treegrunt11 (Jul 3, 2007)

geofore said:


> The fear never goes away, you just spent less energy worring about what can go wrong when you begin to trust yourself and your equipment to work/hold right..



I had a customer say, "I don't know how you guys do it, being way up there...how do you get over the fear of being up there without holding onto the tree or rope?"

I told him, "I never 'get over the fear', I just trust my equipment and keep my mind on what I have to do."


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## nytreeman (Jul 7, 2007)

03treegrunt11 said:


> I had a customer say, "I don't know how you guys do it, being way up there...how do you get over the fear of being up there without holding onto the tree or rope?"
> 
> I told him, "I never 'get over the fear', I just trust my equipment and keep my mind on what I have to do."



*amen to that*


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## BostonBull (Jul 7, 2007)

There isnt a day that goes by, especially climbing, that I dont either sit back in my belt or lean back in the bucket and say....why am I doing this? Is my life worth this tree? And then I do what I was just questioning. Everything turns out OK and now that is a new envelope that I know the limits havent been pushed on. I have had some close calls though, and then I know where the limits are.

I dont think you ever get over the fact that everytime you get in a tree, it could be your last....I know I never will.


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## Tree Slayer (Jul 9, 2007)

Walmart has a nice selection of alumnum water bottles in the camping section most have a lid with a junk biner on them just replace with a good utilty carabiner and your set, nothing like taking a nice sip of water. when its empty throw it down and have it refilled' and never stay in a tree that long it's not worth it. like someone else said come down and refuel your body


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## Brush Hog (Jul 13, 2007)

Don't forget to hydrate in the WINTER too. You can get just as dehydrated as in summer. I'll go through anywhere from a gallon to a gallon and half on a hot day. That's just doing landscape work never mind climbing all day.


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## CoreyTMorine (Jul 14, 2007)

Micke said:


> If you just drink water your body will be leached and in consequence of that you have muscle cramp and headache. I always carry a little bottle with sea salt and take a little taste when i drink my water. As long as it taste good, your body needs it. A long day in the tee needs you to be clear in your head.
> 
> Michael
> (Sorry for my spelling, I'm Swedish you know)



Welcome to AS Micke. I understood you just fine. Thanks for taking the time to post. I have been getting sick of Gatoraide, i think i will try your sea salt trick.

As for clear pee, i think that it can also be caused by a lack of electrolites; meaning that you have used up all the salt in your body. For me this causes the urge to urinate, it feels as though my body can't use the water i've been taking in and so decides to flush it. 

I don't do anything when i have to pee, except go and find a nice shady, secluded spot at which i can relieve myself. Anything that takes the mind off of the task at hand must be eliminated.

Go climb up a skinny tree, tie in and come down. Now that you are on the ground try and break the tie in point, or the rope and saddle. Get some help if there are a few groundies standing around. The sooner you learn just how strong this gear is the easier it will be for you to learn the rest.

Climb safe.


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## bushinspector (Jul 14, 2007)

I would be a little careful about the salt intake. Especially if you have high blood pressure. Many years ago salt tablets was big thing but they that practiced has been dropped. Most people have enough salt intake through their usual diet. Pee should be clear if the person is staying hydrated. The water enables the kidneys to work. Any sports drinks are ok but usually is not needed. When I working I usually switch between water and some sports drink. Since I am from Okla it is really hard to drink GATORAID!!!!


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## 9th year rookie (Jul 16, 2007)

*hydration*

I don't drink coffee on days I know I'll be in the tree a while.
For me, coffee is worse than beer, 2 cups of p for every cup I drink.
That goes for soda too. (Diaretics) From what I understand, drinks w/caffeine will dehydrate rather than hydrate.

Where to go on those city jobs w/no back yards trees to hide behind.....there's always the chip truck.


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## bclure (Jul 17, 2007)

9th year rookie said:


> I don't drink coffee on days I know I'll be in the tree a while.
> For me, coffee is worse than beer, 2 cups of p for every cup I drink.
> That goes for soda too. (Diaretics) From what I understand, drinks w/caffeine will dehydrate rather than hydrate.
> 
> Where to go on those city jobs w/no back yards trees to hide behind.....there's always the chip truck.




Great point about coffee. I am also a heavy coffee drinker and tend to drip with sweat. About six months ago, I quit drinking coffee for 3 months. The biggest change that I noticed was a 90% reduction in the amout that I sweated.


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## dakota (Jul 17, 2007)

Nalgene bottles work great. They can be clipped with a biner on your saddle or easily tied on your rope and pulled up. The best part is that they're virtually unbreakable. The one I've using for the last year or so has been launched, run over (on grass) and been pounded on by falling wood. And the type of plastic is more resiliant to bacteria but you should probably wash it out more often than I do.


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## jrparbor04 (Jul 18, 2007)

oh ya,,,i can remember a few climbs myself that i needed water bad,,,especially trimming a pin oak(quercus palustris),,,dang those dead scratching limbs,,,climbing next to another climber with a gatorpack and he wouldnt even rope me over his water,,i bought one and love it


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## lxt (Jul 19, 2007)

did you know "pin oak" is used to identify a couple oak species, Quercus nuttallii, & Quercus phellos.

I just thought Id post this so those who think their on top of their game & better than everyone else will know even a non- certified tree man can provide knowledge(sometimes,still learning though)

LXT................


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## jrparbor04 (Jul 19, 2007)

lxt said:


> did you know "pin oak" is used to identify a couple oak species, Quercus nuttallii, & Quercus phellos.
> 
> I just thought Id post this so those who think their on top of their game & better than everyone else will know even a non- certified tree man can provide knowledge(sometimes,still learning though)
> 
> LXT................


you are comletely wrong there NON- CERTIFIED TREE BUTCHER,,,quercus phellos is commonly called a willow oak,,,quercus nuttallii is commonly called a nuttall oak also known as quercus texana!!!!! and quercus palustris is commonly called a PIN OAK


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## cntrybo2 (Jul 19, 2007)

oh Snaaaap!!!!!!


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## lxt (Jul 22, 2007)

jrparbor04 said:


> you are comletely wrong there NON- CERTIFIED TREE BUTCHER,,,quercus phellos is commonly called a willow oak,,,quercus nuttallii is commonly called a nuttall oak also known as quercus texana!!!!! and quercus palustris is commonly called a PIN OAK



I guess the National Audobon Society is wrong according to you!!! maybe with all your wisdom & intellect you should re-write their Field Guide To Trees!!! Awe that would require writing skills!!! you only have BOOK skills!!!

"Pin Oak" common name is used in different regions to describe more than just "quercus palustris" so you are the one who is Completely Wrong!!! 

uh oh the second grade class is reporting to forest ranger jrparbor04, please bring your gatorpacks, you will be touring a section of the park that ranger jrparbor has cleaned( the outhouses) enjoy your tour.


LXT.......................


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## jrparbor04 (Jul 22, 2007)

lxt said:


> I guess the National Audobon Society is wrong according to you!!! maybe with all your wisdom & intellect you should re-write their Field Guide To Trees!!! Awe that would require writing skills!!! you only have BOOK skills!!!
> 
> "Pin Oak" common name is used in different regions to describe more than just "quercus palustris" so you are the one who is Completely Wrong!!!
> 
> ...


i will stand with my posts and they are correct,,,


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## beowulf343 (Jul 22, 2007)

Who cares what the latin name is. To be honest, it always seem the boys who have the book smarts like to trot out their knowledge by using the latin names whereas the men who will actually be doing the work will just call it a pin oak and be done with it. Heck, the outfit i work with, you start spouting off latin names and you'd probably get your ass kicked-"you're in america, speak english!!"

Jrparbor-you still haven't answered my question from another thread. You say you have nice credentials, but how long have you actually been doing treework?


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## treeseer (Jul 22, 2007)

knowledge of species by scientific name is important because each is different. If you trim a Q. palustris like you do a Q phellos you may screw it up.

jparbor, your efforts to assign one "correct" common name per species is futile--drop it, man. When you know more, you will know that you know less.





opcorn:


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## lxt (Jul 22, 2007)

very well said treeseer, it seems the longer im in this biz, the more I realize that I dont know squat!!(just scratchin the surface) but always willing to learn.

Beowulf, I have to agree with you in some respects too, I know guys that would think Quercus is a type of STD & when I told them what it meant they would probably smack me & say its a [email protected]#$ing OAK Tree.

too each their own!!!

Take care, Be Safe.

LXT................


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## cntrybo2 (Jul 23, 2007)

the moment one thinks they know it all is the moment they have stopped learning and they have not learned it all, they have just learned all they ever want to learn. Anyone who thinks the natural sciences, to include Arboriculture, is a subject that can be learned to its entirety and then preached is by far ignorant of the field. I have many friends of which some are PHD's and they will testify that one can never know it all and you will never know anything unless you can open your mind to have your knowledge challenged by others.

-as for the use of proper scientific names, i FULLY endorse it, if the proper name is used there can be no argument as to what species is being discussed and honestly, it makes one look professional and I believe that is what we are looking for here isnt it fellow arborists', to bring a high level of professionalism to this field.


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## jrparbor04 (Jul 23, 2007)

amen to that!!!!

i will never stop learning about arboriculture,,,there is too much to learn and know,,,

and i have been in this industry arboriculture/horticulture for over 11 yrs

and i do the actual tree work on a daily basis!!!!


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## nytreeman (Jul 24, 2007)

lxt said:


> very well said treeseer, it seems the longer im in this biz, the more I realize that I dont know squat!!(just scratchin the surface) but always willing to learn.................



Very true even after all these yrs the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know!




lxt said:


> Beowulf, I have to agree with you in some respects too, I know guys that would think Quercus is a type of STD & when I told them what it meant they would probably smack me & say its a [email protected]#$ing OAK Tree.
> ................



LMAO,funny but also  very true


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## TaoTreeClimber (Jul 26, 2007)

Your not a real tree guy unless you pee out of the tree. (make sure the groundies are out of the DZ) and have taken a dump in the back of the chip box. Camelbacks are great for big climbs not only for water, but for some chow and your MP3 player. I also use mine on cable and lightning pro jobs. You can stick all your thimbles, J-lags, pre-wraps, crimps and such in there and hang it off of a looprunner girth-hitched around a handy branch.


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## anuvadave (Jul 27, 2007)

yeah i had the same problem when i started - Ive almost pissed my pants a few times! 
I make sure i drink lots of water before i leave for work, & piss b4 i go up the tree. Also if you just skull down a big bottle of water youre body wont absorb all of it & you will piss the rest out. Its better to keep a smaller bottle with you & have a sip every now & then.

I think 7 hrs is too long to be in the tree.

stay safe m8


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## ddhlakebound (Aug 3, 2007)

*August...When Life in the Tree = Sweat and Pain*

OMG.....Now that August is here is seems there's no relief from the heat. 

It seems like I spend every night drinking as much as I can to get rehydrated. It does not matter how much you drink through the day, it isn't enough. I started drinking water as soon as I left the house this AM, and kept on drinking as much as I could all day. Took 8 hours to get 5 hours work done, cause it doesn't take long to get driven back to the shade and the water jug. By 3:45 this afternoon, the headache was coming on, and my muscles were cramping with every move. Time to pack it in. I hate having to go back, but I hate muscle cramps all night too. 

Who else suffering from the heat and humidity?


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## treesquirrel (Aug 3, 2007)

*Heat*

It is very bad.

I typically take a water/sports drink break every 20-30 minutes.

I will have the ground ie send up a cold drink. Every time I complete a climb and come down we all sit down and drink and rest.

We have been knocking off at around 2:30 every day and we start running saws at 7AM.

But it is very taxing.


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## Ed Roland (Aug 3, 2007)

7 Hours in a white pine. Holy smokes. You must have had to rope every stick of that thing. Try this, anytime I know I have to be @ height for an extended period i carry a camel back full of 72oz of h2o wid me. You can find these things at your local bike shop. Sits real nice on your back out of the way.
Look into oversize pads and foot plates for your spikes as well.
have fun up there and BE SAFE!


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## masiman (Aug 4, 2007)

woodweasel said:


> Try this, anytime I know I have to be @ height for an extended period i carry a camel back full of 72oz of h2o wid me. You can find these things at your local bike shop. Sits real nice on your back out of the way.



Check out REI outlet and save yourself some money. You can even avoid shipping charges by opting to have the item sent to a store near you for pickup. They even have some 100oz. models.


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## TaoTreeClimber (Aug 5, 2007)

Another cool, and I mean this literally, is if you have a hydration pack that has a wide screw off opening you can fill it with ice cubes and water, if its insulated it takes a while for all the ice to melt, but you can bite down on the bite valve and blow the bladder full of air and then point the valve at your face and neck and spray your self down with cold water when it gets a wee bit sweltering. Pretty cool huh???

Kenn


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## cntrybo2 (Aug 5, 2007)

going along with the previous post...i recommend and do this daily in the summer...if you have a hydration pack, fill the pack with water and place the filled bladder in the freezer overnight. in the morning re-insert the bladder intot he pack and when you start working strap it on. the cool temperature from the ice penetrates the pack and your shirt and being it is along your spine will actually reduce your core temperature keeping you cool ALL DAY!!


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## JTinaTree (Aug 8, 2007)

bclure , I feel your pain down here in NC, It is very hot a humid 100+ this week alone... I did a 95+ft Dead White Oak the other week which Murdered my chains by the way, took me 4.5 hours in the tree had to block it down. I got dehydrated and got severe arm pump and cramps. I just did not take enough water brakes and only had a 16oz bottle in my hip bag. So i use my Camelbak mule for when I ride my Mountain bike, and plan to buy this model for climbing it has break away straps for saftey.. It is also high visablity for saftey check it out at Sherrill Tree..


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