# Business Owners: What did you start with?



## theciscokid (Nov 18, 2015)

I've been working in the tree biz for the last 4 years, and climbing full-time for the last 3. In a few years, I am planning on going out on my own. I know every tree service has a different story, so I am curious to hear some of them. I had a few questions for those who took the plunge and started their own company.

1. What were start your up costs? 

2. What did you start out with for equipment?

3. Was your business financed?

4. Which marketing/advertising methods did you use?

5. If you could go back, what would you do differently?


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## ATH (Nov 18, 2015)

Are you planning to leave and compete with your current employer or offer different services or move to a different market? The reason I ask is can you start phasing into that slowly now? Would the place you work for now be willing to sell you equipment they don't use or perhaps an old piece of equipment when they upgrade?

I started out with everything I needed to climb and a dump trailer to haul away brush, an AirKnife and compressor. Also had to buy a pickup to pull it around. Total start up was somewhere around $20K. Most of that came from savings. I did borrow some, but paid it off in less than 2 years...kinda think maybe I shouldn't have, but it didn't kill the business, so not a huge regret - just something I wouldn't do again. I would have liked to start out with more pest control capabilities, but what would I have dropped? Maybe the AirKnife stuff. That gets underused, but I think it is a great tool so I don't regret that...just thinking maybe I should have switched order of purchase getting a sprayer first.

Marketing was word of mouth, website, and paying too much for phonebook (still do that...not worth what they charge, but gotta be in the book I guess, so I just take out a small ad in each of them).

If you have a solid 2 year plan, start saving HARD now and look for great buys on equipment. You don't need it yet, so don't buy it unless you feel like you are stealing it.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 19, 2015)

ATH said:


> Are you planning to leave and compete with your current employer or offer different services or move to a different market? The reason I ask is can you start phasing into that slowly now? Would the place you work for now be willing to sell you equipment they don't use or perhaps an old piece of equipment when they upgrade?
> 
> I started out with everything I needed to climb and a dump trailer to haul away brush, an AirKnife and compressor. Also had to buy a pickup to pull it around. Total start up was somewhere around $20K. Most of that came from savings. I did borrow some, but paid it off in less than 2 years...kinda think maybe I shouldn't have, but it didn't kill the business, so not a huge regret - just something I wouldn't do again. I would have liked to start out with more pest control capabilities, but what would I have dropped? Maybe the AirKnife stuff. That gets underused, but I think it is a great tool so I don't regret that...just thinking maybe I should have switched order of purchase getting a sprayer first.
> 
> ...



Dang!,,,you fed the troll,,,hope he don't get email alerts!
Jeff


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## theciscokid (Nov 20, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang!,,,you fed the troll,,,hope he don't get email alerts!
> Jeff



I might be the most boring troll of all time then.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 20, 2015)

Although I don't run a large service my recommendation is more just a blanket business statement. Purchase and have things that are super versatile things that can do many jobs although they may not be the absolute best they are suitable and quality and can get the job done.
Also don't try to get every job pick a specialty type work you want to do become good at it. Just my opinion.


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## CanopyGorilla (Nov 21, 2015)

Start with all the climbing and rigging gear...... and a knowledge of how to use it. If you show up on time, sell good work, do good pruning, don't crush anything on removals, you will gain loyal customers who enjoy watching you grow and succeed.


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## tree MDS (Nov 21, 2015)

Yeah,, don't forget to low ball everything into the dirt either. Working on volume is good. It may take a while, but eventually they'll all fold. Then you can really jack up the prices!!


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## tree MDS (Nov 21, 2015)

Besides, it's good for people to see your trucks out there...


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## mckeetree (Nov 22, 2015)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah,, don't forget to low ball everything into the dirt either. Working on volume is good. It may take a while, but eventually they'll all fold. Then you can really jack up the prices!!



Yep. Good advice. That's old school stuff right there. Basically, after being in this industry for 40 years now the best advice I can give some new guy starting out is don't worry what you are making on individual jobs...just low ball the hell out of them and get'um. Think volume.


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## Pelorus (Nov 22, 2015)

Volume is the key!
I've been running a lowball not-for- profit tree business for years, and it's awesome!!!
Why pay Income Tax to Uncle Sam (Obongo) or Uncle Justin (pretty boy Trudeau) when you can teeter on the razor edge of prosperity / poverty.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 22, 2015)




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## tree MDS (Nov 22, 2015)




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## mckeetree (Nov 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Volume is the key!
> I've been running a lowball not-for- profit tree business for years, and it's awesome!!!
> Why pay Income Tax to Uncle Sam (Obongo) or Uncle Justin (pretty boy Trudeau) when you can teeter on the razor edge of prosperity / poverty.



You damn right it's freakin awesome ice sickle. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, quite as exhilarating as being right on the edge of being a damn poster boy for poverty while occasionally lightly flirting with prosperity...just flirting with it now...a touch here a feel there...but nothing you would ever need a condom for.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 25, 2015)

You should move to San Diego,,
but I hope you don't,,
Jeff


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## mckeetree (Nov 26, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> You should move to San Diego,,
> but I hope you don't,,
> Jeff



I won't. Two years and ten months and this shack is paid for. If I sold out it wouldn't buy me much in San Diego.


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## Crusherclaw (Jan 1, 2016)

If the company your working for offers to help with certs especially plant health care take advantage of that. As I get older it sure would be nice to take a day a week and go spray and or fert some trees . Not to mention the profit in that end of the bizz .


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## Treeman317 (Jan 1, 2016)

theciscokid said:


> I've been working in the tree biz for the last 4 years, and climbing full-time for the last 3. In a few years, I am planning on going out on my own. I know every tree service has a different story, so I am curious to hear some of them. I had a few questions for those who took the plunge and started their own company.
> 
> 1. What were start your up costs?
> Few thousand dollars
> ...


Got a damn lease on a chipper and truck from day 1 instead I rented a dump trailer with no sides at 100/day and we made several trips. Did this for months...bought a chip truck jobs got bigger...then started renting chippers and skid steers


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## mikewhite85 (Feb 17, 2016)

I started my first business with a beat up dodge dakota and poulan pro!!! I wouldn't recommend it! I was a grad student and had very little money. 

Things started to go smooth after I bought an old ford dump truck and bandit model 90. Pay cash for relatively cheap stuff and work your way up to the bigger stuff. Don't finance a brand new vermeer bc2000 off the start!! 

If you look hard, are patient, and have some mechanical skills you can get a truck and chipper for 10k. I bought my first dump truck for 1800 bucks and it lasted 3-4 years! It was a Ford Superduty from the first year they made 7.3's. The chipper was around 7k and it only had 150 hours when I bought it. I basically stole it for that price. I never upgraded the chipper though I wished I had a bigger one during crane jobs and big removals. That said, when you start out you don't need anything too big. DO NOT buy a vermeer 6" though. I'd rather stack a trailer full of brush. I wish I could find one of those chipper dump box combo trailers for cheap. If I could go back I'd start with one of those and an f350 pickup!

Your saws, rigging and climbing gear, and ropes you probably have already. I don't think you'll need an airspade right away. Buy your saws new or lightly used, especially the topper saws. 

Get a website and make a yelp and angies list page. 

Also, the hard part in starting out is that if you're going to have employees you need worker's comp. You'll also need your proper licensing. And becoming a certified arborist helps too.


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## mikewhite85 (Feb 17, 2016)

mikewhite85 said:


> I started my first business with a beat up dodge dakota and poulan pro!!! I wouldn't recommend it! I was a grad student and had very little money.
> 
> Things started to go smooth after I bought an old ford dump truck and bandit model 90. Pay cash for relatively cheap stuff and work your way up to the bigger stuff. Don't finance a brand new vermeer bc2000 off the start!!
> 
> ...



Oh an the other thing is, it can be stressful!!

I sold my business Dec 31, 2014. But if I wasn't going to sell it and do another career I would have done a one man arborist consulting, Pesticide applicator, and stump grinding business. It would have been easy to build that off of my existing clientele. Employees and insurance add a lot of stress.


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## JeffGu (Feb 18, 2016)

Yeah, anytime you can build a small business with family members, you can avoid the Work Comp headaches... that's the way to go if you aren't terribly greedy or needy. Going big means bigger money, but it also means bigger headaches, stress, and bills. I saw Warren Buffet give a talk up in Omaha years ago, and one of the questions somebody asked, was if he could do it all over again, what he would do. He never hesitated a second... he said he wouldn't. He'd start a small, low-stress business with just family members and keep it that way. He said people that make $40K a year are usually happier and healthier than the ones that are worth $40 million. I thought it was the most sensible thing Warren Buffet has ever said.


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## mauldinoutdoor (Feb 18, 2016)

The problem with no comp (as an owner I don't cover myself) is if you or a family member gets hurt and it lasts longterm - who's going to pay their bills both medical and personal. The business almost always goes under. I plan on adding myself to our policy as soon as my margins get better.


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## stltreedr (Feb 25, 2016)

Decide what kind of business you want, and plan your work to that end. If you want to be an owner/climber that's fine for some folks... But the hours can get out of control when bidding everything and doing all the work yourself. That can be profitable, but remember that any time you want to take off work or sell work, everything else comes to a halt. You will struggle to keep good employees, and that will be very stressful.

If you want to be a small, multiple crew company, hire either the best salesman, or the best climber you can find. Someone you can trust with your life and money. Pay him whatever it takes and provide benefits so that he stays with you for the long haul. You CANNOT do everything on your own. Don't even try.

If you want to have a large company, see steps 1 or 2, do that while saving every penny, for many years....Until you have a 1/2 million dollars or so in the bank. Then re-evaluate whether you want to reinvest all of that money or just retire a little early.

You will be blown away at the amount of money it takes to run a tree business. Essentially, you work 4 days a week to pay the bills. Then if you're lucky, Friday should be profit.... But if something breaks down that week, your profit days are gone for the next month or so.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Feb 25, 2016)

It's a huge jump from being an owner/operator to being a boss with workers, both in costs and responsibilities. My 3rd year I hired a full time guy and a part time and I almost lost my shirt.
Whatever wages you plan, easily double it for actual expenses.
I'm on year 6 now, have mostly been just me with part time help here and there. Certainly could use 1-2 full time guys, I'm not huge fan of the 100+hr weeks I do, but I just can't make the numbers work. I'd rather work long and hard and buy steaks on Saturday vs hoping to be able to afford lunch meat.


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## mckeetree (Feb 25, 2016)

stltreedr said:


> You will be blown away at the amount of money it takes to run a tree business. Essentially, you work 4 days a week to pay the bills. Then if you're lucky, Friday should be profit.... But if something breaks down that week, your profit days are gone for the next month or so.



More like you work 5 1/2 days to pay the bills. Then if you are lucky, Saturday afternoon should be profit. At least that's the program I'm on.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Feb 25, 2016)

Expect to work 7 days a week too, there should be no such thing as 'bankers hours" for a young business. Pretty much at least dawn to dark, 7 days a week. Even more so if your competition keeps banks hours.

Take days "off" when the weather is too bad or business is a bit slow, and even then you should be catching up on paperwork, doing maintenance, cleaning the shop, etc.

If you are married or have kids, don't expect just because you make your hours it means you can leave at 2pm to go "help" with stuff she can easily do, etc. Stick to a set of hours just like a normal job.
My thoughts anyhow. Have a friend that might put in 1/2 the hours I do, always "something" going on... dog appts, fundraisers, ball games, teacher meetings, etc, etc, etc and wonders why he's just barely floating along. Yes, I understand family is important too, but they count on you to keep a roof over their heads and the lights on.

If you aren't decent with people and time management, better figure it out or hire someone to help you. It's tough to play secretary, scheduler, mechanic, laborer, truck driver, boss, etc, etc all at once.

Also though, keep an "off" switch too. You do need to go into "can wait till tomorrow mode" as some point in the evening. I'll get calls sometimes at midnight or 4AM and the person is upset when I call back later vs answering. At that point, I just politely let them know I'm not interested, they'll need to go elsewhere.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2016)

mckeetree said:


> More like you work 5 1/2 days to pay the bills. Then if you are lucky, Saturday afternoon should be profit. At least that's the program I'm on.


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