# False Crotch vs. Rope Saver



## SpikedSupra (Jul 4, 2002)

I was curious on this board's general opinion on wether you use a rope saver, false crotch, or a natural crotch. Which do you feel is easier to install a rope saver or false crotch and in what cases would you use a natural crotch(if ever) for it wears rope and causes crotch abrasion.


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## rbtree (Jul 4, 2002)

Forrest,

The first tool was the leather "Cambium Saver". I've seen it in use but dont have one. Not hard to set from ground or retrieve. Has more friction than two ringed friction savers. These require an isolated crotch to set from ground. I rarely do this, as, A, I work in lots of conifers, and B, typically use other ascension methods.

Also, I don't always use friction savers, if the bark is thick, the retrieval possibly difficult, and the rope is worn a bit already. also, if the tree is small and the wear on the crotch will be minimal, I sometimes don't bother.

I now prefer non ringed f savers, with a biner and pulley on one end, large biner on the other. You can, if needed, use another for a redirect and both can be retrieved from the ground. Only reason fro the pulley is if you are doing considerable up and down work, it makes going back up a real breeze. But it puts most of the load and thus friction on the climbing knot, and this must be taken into consideration. Works well with the Vt (French prussic), but will tend to bind up most knots.

So, think we know our ropes:? LOL


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## DDM (Jul 4, 2002)

2 ring friction saver


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## SpikedSupra (Jul 5, 2002)

*Difference*

How does a two ring friction saver differ from a false crotch?


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2002)

It doesn't.....


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jul 5, 2002)

For me it depends on how much time I'll be in the tree. For a quick up and down, job I just use a natural crotch. When I'm going to be going up and down more, I use a two ringed cambium saver, friction saver, friction mover, or whatever they are calling them this week.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jul 5, 2002)

RB?


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2002)

Mornin' Mike,

1: That's Tom with the unused (in the pic) f saver. What do you carry them with on your belt?

2: Got me, I've never figured it out either...maybe my third leg?
In this pic, 335 and hand saw are both hanging down:


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2002)

And here, both feet are on the same side of the leader:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 5, 2002)

Number 2 does look like a 335 flipped bar up with mostly the chainbreak lever visible.

fc/tip, as Uncle Tom, dont call me MR., Dunlap likes to refer to it. I dont like the False Crotch nomenclature because this is used for the old school method of cutting into the stem. Mechanical Tie in Point or Mtip seems better to me. 

I like the biner styled becuse I use ascenders to get up into the tree and I dont need to feed the whole rope through it, take my snap off...

On long pitches the pulley helps.

If the branch is very large I will still use the the Mtip just to keep the rope running easy. 

I've started using an old rope spliced end and a split tail for my Mtip. Don't have any tress cords yet.

My biggest problem is remembering it is up there, I'll still get to talking and pull the rope out, only to hear the biners clink together.


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2002)

You and me both....we must need a "Memory Power" course...!!

Hey, want to buy 1000 feet of 1.75 mm Zing It? for about $90? Or any length? P/u at the conference...


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## SpikedSupra (Jul 5, 2002)

*Installation*

Between the two which do you find easier to install in the crotch a rope saver or false crotch?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 5, 2002)

I like the 'biner Mtip best caus I can climb up to it and clip the rope on to it.

For a beginner who is not foot locking (FL) then maybe the leater sheath is easier, cuz you realy need a lot of trowline to get the Mtip in from the ground. The method in The Companion is good, I use a slightly different way, the few times I do it.

Once you get the DdRT FL down, then you'll never ascend on the loop unless you absolutely have to.


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## Kevin (Jul 5, 2002)

> Once you get the DdRT FL down,



... and we all know how easy that is.


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## DDM (Jul 5, 2002)

In Rogers Picture It either appears to be his Video Camera or a Skill Saw.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jul 5, 2002)

99.9 % of the time I use a natural crotch. It is one less thing to worry about. If I do use a ring rope saver it is because I need to wrap it around the stem for a better tie-in point. Also, I am of the opinion that bark can take a rope over it. Rich.


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2002)

Hey DDM, yes it is my "skill" saw!!!

Well, I guess I do have some, but boy, what a lot of hard knocks on the way!!


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2002)

Rich, 

Depending on the tree and bark type, time of year, amount of rope running through the crotch, etc etc, damage does occur. I just was back in a silver poplar and saw our damage, not that that species can't handle it.

I am certainly not anal about their use, but now that they are available, I think we should use them as much as needed.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jul 5, 2002)

*rbtree*

Thanx for the info. Climbing on a natural crotch was the way I was taught. Maybe time for a change!!! Rich.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 6, 2002)

Once you get used to it it makes it so much more easy, then you start using the rope more doing things like a swinging decent into another stem...


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## SpikedSupra (Jul 6, 2002)

*Rope Saver*

Based on your comments I think that I am going to go with the rope saver.


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## Nickrosis (Jul 6, 2002)

Are you asking because you saw the diagrams in the Tree Climber's Companion?

Nickrosis


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## SpikedSupra (Jul 6, 2002)

*Nick*

Yes. The Companion is not partial to either one and I was just curious on which tool everyone on this board would recommend.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 6, 2002)

Nikolas! Your on vacation in a foreign land! What are you doing here, you should be picking up some french tourist chick!


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## Kevin (Jul 6, 2002)

I have the double ring friction saver and I`m very pleased with it.
I`m hunting for a leather rope saver for placing a rope around the strand and cable where I need to get close to where I`m working.
I have about 300m of cable up the north highway that`s filled with water and I want to punch a hole in the cable mid span and bleed the water out of it until I can get it replaced.
The cable runs along beside the highway over a boulder slope that runs down to the edge of Lake Superior.
Too far from the road for a bucket and the terrain is too rough for a ladder.
A friction saver will leave me too low from where I have to reach the cable.


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## Kevin (Jul 6, 2002)

Strand and cable with rope saver.

The message here is ...sometimes you need both.


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## rbtree (Jul 7, 2002)

Why not just throw a line over the strand, footlock up, then use a ringed saver to get down. Or fix a line, and use ascenders. Once you are up, two slings for your feet would provide three points for balance.

Or do you need the leather saver to protect the rope and/or cable/strand?


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## Kevin (Jul 7, 2002)

RB, The bend on the rope over the steel strand will be tight due to the small diameter of the strand and I thought it would be a little easier on the rope if I used the saver.
I have some leather here and I`ll likely make my own.
It will be a quick drt/footlock up to the cable and I`ll use a small punch 1/8" dia. similar to a cookie cutter and punch a hole in the bottom of the cable.
The only problem is doing this without getting any of this water on my equipment because its corrosive.
Not really tree related but it does involve climbing.


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## SpikedSupra (Jul 7, 2002)

I'm starting to get a better understanding for the reasons for using both but I dont have it completely grasped. If someone could just break down the essentials of each tools use I think that would help me understand it the best.


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## rbtree (Jul 7, 2002)

http://www.treetools.com/catalog/buckingham/57a48.html


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 7, 2002)

The advantage of the hose is that it is a little easier to install and remove. The drawback is that you still have to pull it across what ever surface, so the reduction of friction is not as much.

With the Mtip, you have a consistant friction all the time, so you can get a little more creative in your climbing.

Then if you go with the Mtip that is made from 'biners then you can install it without feeding the entire rope through the device. This is good if you are tieing a clip to the rope end, or girth hitching a a clip to a splice.


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## Kevin (Jul 8, 2002)

Well that`s done!
Just made my leather rope saver.
5" of leather about 14" long hand stitched, took less than an hour and it`s exactly what I need.
Onward and upward ...


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