# Clearwater, FL Electrocution 8/29/03



## Treeman14 (Aug 30, 2003)

Tree service worker killed after indirect contact via pole saw. Another avoidable death. I ALWAYS call the local utility if ANY part of the tree is within ten feet of power lines. This is a FREE service provided by all utility companies. Why don't more people use it? 

http://www.sptimes.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/APState.woa/wa/story?id=FL_Worker_Electrocuted


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## NeTree (Aug 30, 2003)

Oddly enough, I AM a certified line-clearance arborist, with the proper equipment- and I STILL call the utilities often to do a "courtesy prune". 

Sounds more like the wrong (or defective) equipment to me. Any cutting equipment used near utilities should be CERTIFIED dialectric, such as the foam-core Jamiesons and such.



It's a shame Echo discontinued their PPFD-2400 power pruner- the only INSULATED one made.

Condolensces to this man's family.

But I have to say that I am utterly disgusted with the number of tree fatalities this year.


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## Treeman14 (Aug 31, 2003)

Erik, I am also certified for line clearance, but I never hesitate to call the utility. That's their job. I got certified so that I could RECOGNIZE the hazard and avoid it, not necessarily deal with it. I'm amazed at how many "arborists" are not able to identify electrical hazards. i.e., don't know the difference between phone CATV and distribution lines.


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## dbeck (Aug 31, 2003)

courtesy prune...describe what you mean please.

One question, how do you get youre boss to get power shut off to houses when we are working around drops? I know drops are low voltage, my knowledge is actually higher than average thanks to my summer job during college(utility installation), but why risk getting shocked or ripping a mast off a house? If not for the sake of the homeowner's cost? He thinks that shutting down a customers power for a while is an "unneccessary disturbance of their life" ?????


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 31, 2003)

We routinely have the L & P crew drop the customers service line when it is necessary. Usually we call the day before, but lots of times we call right then and they come out within 30 - 45 min. Their a bunch of good ole boys, and they have no problem with it. 

Getting the main line breaker switched requires 48 hrs notice, but we rarely need to have that done.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 31, 2003)

I get my contractors to do a temp disconnect on anything we will be taking large limbs out of. I talk about it as efficient time management. I'm much faster if they are not there.

Most people are not home when the power is shut off anyways. all they nee to do is rest the clocks and reprogram the VCR.


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## sonny (Sep 1, 2003)

I worked for a utility contractor for yrs. Many times we came out & topped the tree below ALL power lines so nothing could happen. Then the tree contractor could go ahead & remove the tree. Its a free service.Its a win win sitituation for all.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 1, 2003)

Yup. They do that for us, all the time.

Saves me some work!


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## geofore (Sep 1, 2003)

*tm14*

I can believe others can't tell the lines apart, see it alot. The phone and cable tv lines can be dangerous also if the ground lines at the pole for the electric were knocked of by the homeowner mowwing too close or kids stealing copper (dumb) 

dbeck, you can call the electric co. if the boss doesn't think it needs to be done and you do. It's a safety issue, it's your life on the line not the bosses life unless he is doing the job. If you are afraid the boss will chew you out for making the call you can defend yourself even if you get fired. A safety violation is a safety violation and the boss can be shut down for safety violations. It does not have to escalate to that extreme. Safety first, it is your life, it's your call. Ask yourself, how long do I want to live?


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## sonny (Sep 1, 2003)

Ditto that


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## NeTree (Sep 1, 2003)

I'd rather have my crew burn an hours' time to have the light company clear a safety zone than to have them get hurt. It's an hour they would have spent having to clear the same branches from the same lines anyways, so it's not like nothing is being done.


Coincidentaly, my one of my groundies (my son) broke his foot in three places riding his atv today...hit a tree. Does that count as a tree-related accident?


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## heartland (Sep 2, 2003)

*Re: tm14*



> _Originally posted by geofore _
> *The phone and cable tv lines can be dangerous also if the ground lines at the pole for the electric were knocked of by the homeowner mowwing too close or kids stealing copper (dumb)
> *



Can somebody elaborate on this please? I'm not well versed on this stuff.....


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 2, 2003)

The top bare wire on the utility pole system is the "common gorund". a damaged or vandalized ground can cause leakage into the other systems that piggyback the power poles; phone, cable, security...

This is why the Z says that all conductors should be concidered energized.


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## sonny (Sep 2, 2003)

1st rule !!!!!!! Treat all wires hot !!!!!!


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 2, 2003)

Everybody should have a pair of hot gloves available when you need them. They cost $80-$100 and are worth every penny.

A plastic hand gun case is perfect for stowing them behind the seat w/o damaging them.


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## Treeman14 (Sep 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Everybody should have a pair of hot gloves available when you need them. *



Why? Unless you're line-clearance certified, you've got no business messing with hot wires. I would not want someone to get a false sense of security just because they're wearing expensive gloves.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 2, 2003)

Think as you will, but hot gloves come in handy. What do you do when you've got one limb that needs to be worked out? Shut it down and call the L/P boys? I don't. I know when I need them, and I also know when I don't need them.

If it makes you feel any better, I only need to use them a couple times a year. And I also spent my first decade of treework clearing power lines. But, I'm not 'certified'. If I trimmed pwr lines exclusively, I would be.


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## NeTree (Sep 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Treeman14 _
> *Why? Unless you're line-clearance certified, you've got no business messing with hot wires. I would not want someone to get a false sense of security just because they're wearing expensive gloves.  *



Actually, even if you ARE certified, you still have to follow the 2'4" minimum approach rule. 

MB-
Use hot sticks if you have to drop a hanger, but you have no business grabbing power wires, gloves or not. Do you test them before you use them?


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 3, 2003)

Netree, I never contact the pwr line. Even when I was line clearing, I never touched the line. I only use the HG when I think the limb I'm cutting MIGHT contact the line.

You know the scenario; you've got a limb that might brush the line with the tip as it hinges down. Hot gloves! Or, you've got a tree to TD that is growing under the line, and a few of the branches look a little too close to the line for comfort. Hot gloves!

I'm not talking about dealing with hot wires that are wrapped up with limbs. Nor am I talking about working out some hanger that is buzzing and smoking. Thats when I'll call the L & P. I'm simply referring to the occasional brush-by that might zap you. Hot gloves make this situation safer.

I inspect my HG the way the lineman do. Remove the leather protecter, fill the rubber insert with water, and look for leaks.

I'm the only one who does this???


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## NeTree (Sep 3, 2003)

1) that's the wrong way to test HV gloves
2) if you use the proper tools & techniques, you still don't need them


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## sonny (Sep 4, 2003)

water inside them gloves ?? water & electricty dont mix. I would prefer air & powder. Thats what this discusion has been about. Just call the electric co.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 4, 2003)

If you've ever worked in hot gloves in warm weather, you found out real quick about 'water' in your gloves.

The water test I was referring to was a simple, in the field , quick test for pinpricks, r sumptun. NOT a proper dielctric(?) test. Don't forget the insulating rubber is covered by heavy leather gloves.

We have few buried lines down here. And tons of trees.


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## NeTree (Sep 4, 2003)

Sorry Butch.... you still haven't convinced me on needing the gloves.

By the way, the proper way to test them for pinpricks is to blow them up with air. Water (being self-cohesive) wouldn't necessarily drip through a pinhole.


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## Striker (Jan 10, 2005)

What is the 2'4" rule?

Jeff


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