# Chain Saw Milling Speed?



## drivadesl (Dec 22, 2007)

I was milling some oak the other day, roughly 22" across, using my MS-660, 36" ripping chain from Baileys. Pretty much took all of a 30 minutes to run through 8.5' length, works out to 3.5 inches/min. Seemed a lot slower than that, but since I'm new at this, just looking for a sanity check. The chain was used once on 4 cuts, so I touched it up using the Stihl file guide set at 10 degrees. Had to apply a lot of force to move it through the log, definitely sore the next day. Anyone care to comment?


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## stonykill (Dec 22, 2007)

drivadesl said:


> I was milling some oak the other day, roughly 22" across, using my MS-660, 36" ripping chain from Baileys. Pretty much took all of a 30 minutes to run through 8.5' length, works out to 3.5 inches/min. Seemed a lot slower than that, but since I'm new at this, just looking for a sanity check. The chain was used once on 4 cuts, so I touched it up using the Stihl file guide set at 10 degrees. Had to apply a lot of force to move it through the log, definitely sore the next day. Anyone care to comment?



that is a lot slower than an oak log I recently did. Mine was only 18-19 -in diameter, but still. I run a 82 cc Pioneer P51 with a 24 inch bar and lp chain. While I didn't time it, I know it wasn't that long, it seemed like 5 -6 minutes a pass, but like I said I didn't time it.I know it wasn't 30 minutes. Oak is one of the slower woods to mill. You should not have to apply so much force that you get sore from pushing. Is your chain new? If not maybe the rakers need lowering. Do you have any pics of your assembled milling set up for us to look at? Maybe from photos we can get an idea.

Check for obvious things, chain on backwards or chipped or bent tooth on chain. Was the log frozen solid with ice showing? Ice will dull a chain quickly. Was there a lot of dirt in the bark. This will also dull the chain quickly. 
I'm sure others will chime in with ideas.


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## woodshop (Dec 22, 2007)

Milling times? ... 395XP (94cc saw) with standard 3/8 ripping chain from Baileys on 36" bar, in 18 inch wide oak I go through about 3 seconds per inch, which is a little less than 2 ft a minute. In 24-28 inch wide oak, double that time, about a foot a minute, and then ONLY if the chain is sharp. As soon as it even starts to get dull, things slow to a crawl fast. However, 30 minutes to go 8 1/2ft is twice what it should take with a 660 in 22 inches of oak. Check the obvious stuff first. Like stony says, it doesn't take much dirt in the bark to dull a chain to where it will just sit there and work itself to death trying to cut wood. You should be pushing on the mill a bit to get it down the log, but not a whole lot more than ordinary crosscutting like when you're bucking the log. Post of pic or two of your setup for us. It really should not take 30 min to go 8 ft.


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## drivadesl (Dec 22, 2007)

Two foot per minute! Now way I'm going that fast. No way does it feel like I'm crosscutting. I must have something FUBAR'd based on what you guys are saying. Took me 7 hours roughly to cut 7 boards, including moving logs, setup time, refueling, oiling, couple short breaks etc. Like I said, the chain is pretty new, Bought from Bailey's and the logs where not muddy at all. They were pretty clean actually with the snow and rain we had lately. I took the chains in to my dealer for sharpening, as I did notice one side looked a bit duller than the other though still seemed pretty sharp after I touched it up with a file/guide. His reaction was pretty negative when I told him where I got the chains, but thats to be expected. Putting the chain in backward? Don't think so, I was carefull and made sure it was right. My set up can be seen in the "Milled Some Oak " thread from last week. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=57762 I'll be trying it again once I get the chains back after Christmas, I can update then. Thanks for your input as always.


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## Trigger-Time (Dec 22, 2007)

Have you checked the height of the rakers on the chain?





.


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## drivadesl (Dec 22, 2007)

Trigger: Didn't think the chain itself was suspect since it was new. Not sure how to check the raker height, maybe if you could clarify I can look at this when I get the chains back. I'll post a photo also. Thanks.


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## Trigger-Time (Dec 22, 2007)

drivadesl said:


> Trigger: Didn't think the chain itself was suspect since it was new. Not sure how to check the raker height, maybe if you could clarify I can look at this when I get the chains back. I'll post a photo also. Thanks.



You can buy a gage that sits on top of the cutters, if rakers stick
above gage they need to be filed down. Rakes or Depth gages as they are
called are what sets how much of a bite depth wise the cutters take.
I don't know what most people set the rakers at.
For milling I cut mine down to .035 below the cutters and most cross
cut chains rakers are set to .025 below cutters.



.


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## woodshop (Dec 23, 2007)

drivadesl said:


> Two foot per minute! Now way I'm going that fast. No way does it feel like I'm crosscutting.



...didn't mean if it's dialed in it feels like crosscutting, it never does that. You will (at least I never have) never get that "digging in and slicing through wood" feeling you do with a sharp chain when cutting up firewood for example. The chain just won't do that milling because of the orientation to the wood fibers, which is also why you get fine dust instead of nice quarter inch square chips that fly out of the saw normal cutting. It will be slow, but with your setup and size saw, should go at least twice as fast as you are currently getting.


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## yawning_dog (Dec 23, 2007)

I agree with woodshop. When I've milled oak before, it's slow, but with a relatively sharp chain I can get through an 8 foot log in about 12 to 15 minutes or so. That's with an 051 and a 30 bar (25" max cut). If you're running wide open for 30 minutes in one cut, do you have to gas up again toward the end? I also agree with the others to check the rakers...


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## Matildasmate (Dec 23, 2007)

drivadesl said:


> I was milling some oak the other day, roughly 22" across, using my MS-660, 36" ripping chain from Baileys. Pretty much took all of a 30 minutes to run through 8.5' length, works out to 3.5 inches/min. Seemed a lot slower than that, but since I'm new at this, just looking for a sanity check. The chain was used once on 4 cuts, so I touched it up using the Stihl file guide set at 10 degrees. Had to apply a lot of force to move it through the log, definitely sore the next day. Anyone care to comment?



Guday mate ........ Yeah I bought some ripping chain from Bailey's a while back , I have to say it was hopeless to start with , it was slow as a wet wig , it was brand new straight out of the box , it was sharpened at , I think 10deg's x 85deg's , I resharpened it to 15deg's x 45deg's , went marvelous after that . Cheer's MM


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## rayvil01 (Dec 23, 2007)

It seems like there are a lot of recipes for filing Bailey's rip chain. I have an Oregon bench mini-grinder Model 108181. What are some possibilities for settings? 

Thanks in advance.


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## Matildasmate (Dec 23, 2007)

rayvil01 said:


> It seems like there are a lot of recipes for filing Bailey's rip chain. I have an Oregon bench mini-grinder Model 108181. What are some possibilities for settings?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Hi Ray There are lot's of recipe's , I do all my ripping chain's at 15 deg's x 45 deg's , after lot's of experimenting , you can use normal crosscut chain angle's and it will cut no worry's you just end up with a rough surface , that's all , no big deal if you are going to thickness it , or if a rough surface is no problem and it will also cut faster . here's a link to more info . Cheer's MM http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=54548


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## woodshop (Dec 23, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> ...after lot's of experimenting , you can use normal crosscut chain angle's and it will cut no worry's you just end up with a rough surface , that's all , no big deal if you are going to thickness it , or if a rough surface is no problem and it will also cut faster...


I concur with Matildasmate, regular sharp crosscut chain actually cuts a little faster than milling chain, but leaves the surface not as smooth. All that means for me personally is maybe an extra pass through the planer from the start. No big deal. I have used regular skip chain also, half the cutters, but didn't notice much diff speed wise, it still ran down the log fine although the skip chain seemed to leave the surface even MORE rough than regular chain, which is as I siad more rough than milling chain. 

Drivadesl, stick a sharp regular chain on that thing and run down the log and see if it still takes you 30 minutes per pass. If it does, then you will at least know that the chain is not the problem.


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## duffontap (Dec 23, 2007)

The Granberg site says you can: "re-sharpen your stock chain to zero (0) degree top plate angle" and this will cut smoother and faster than a stock chain. Has anyone tried this? I've never heard that a cross-cut chain mills faster but then, I'm new to this. 

Duff


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## woodshop (Dec 23, 2007)

duffontap said:


> The Granberg site says you can: "re-sharpen your stock chain to zero (0) degree top plate angle" and this will cut smoother and faster than a stock chain. Has anyone tried this? I've never heard that a cross-cut chain mills faster but then, I'm new to this.
> 
> Duff



For all I know, technically it does not, I'm just going by my experience in the field. More than once I've ran short on milling chain for various reasons in the field, and had the throw on my regular chain and it always seemed to move down the log a little faster than my milling chain, even a sharp milling chain. It seemed to "grab" the wood more, and I remember I couldn't push as hard without bogging down the mill. However, never did a side by side timed comparison, so you might want to view my take on this as at least semi anecdotal. 

(wasn't sure if I was using that word right, so looked it up..."2. Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis:" Yup... my observations were casual rather than based on rigorous... )


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## duffontap (Dec 23, 2007)

That's interesting woodshop. Thanks for the reply. 

I'd really like to hear what people think of the zero-angle sharpening???

J. D.


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## 820wards (Dec 25, 2007)

I'm currently building a mill and will need to purchase ripping chain. Sounds like the Baileys chain isn't the hot ticket. For those of you currently milling, what brand of chain would you suggest? I'll be using a 38" bar .063 x .404 with a 125cc motor.

jerry-


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## dustytools (Dec 25, 2007)

820wards said:


> I'm currently building a mill and will need to purchase ripping chain. Sounds like the Baileys chain isn't the hot ticket. For those of you currently milling, what brand of chain would you suggest? I'll be using a 38" bar .063 x .404 with a 125cc motor.
> 
> jerry-



Personally, I would recommend the Baileys ripping chain. Ive used it and the more expensive Granberg ripping chain. Performance wise its right up there with Granbergs chain at half the cost.


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## Matildasmate (Dec 25, 2007)

820wards said:


> I'm currently building a mill and will need to purchase ripping chain. Sounds like the Baileys chain isn't the hot ticket. For those of you currently milling, what brand of chain would you suggest? I'll be using a 38" bar .063 x .404 with a 125cc motor.
> 
> jerry-



Hi Jerry ....... The Bailey's ripping chain I got was Woodsman Pro 3/8 x .063 , which is actually just carlton chain rebadged , the quality of the chain is good , it seem's that it just need's to be sharpened to what ever suit's you , I just found it was way to slow out of the box .


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## stonykill (Dec 26, 2007)

820wards said:


> I'm currently building a mill and will need to purchase ripping chain. Sounds like the Baileys chain isn't the hot ticket. For those of you currently milling, what brand of chain would you suggest? I'll be using a 38" bar .063 x .404 with a 125cc motor.
> 
> jerry-



I use Baileys chain exclusively. I haven't had any problems whatsoever with it, and I don't change the milling angles either. I've tried all the different mods to regular chain, and didn't see enough of an improvement over Baileys ripping chain to warrant the extra work. I would recomend Baileys chain. Good stuff.


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## drivadesl (Dec 27, 2007)

Okay I picked up the sharpened chains and installed one. The stihl dealer says they sharpened them to 10D. These are 3/8X.050X114 Baileys ripping chains as installed. 













I saddled up to a 20" chunk of oak, and let er rip, running square to the butt end which was angled upwards, allowing me to use the weight of the saw to apply downward pressure. I didn't time it, but I think it took maybe 10 seconds for the bar to bury itself 4" into the chunk. Wow what a difference. Applied only minimal force and it was better than expected. I didn't have to continue from there. This was a world of difference from my last milling experience so I have to believe it had to be a dull or nicked chain, or something with my setup however unlikely. I'll be going back to mill hopefully before New Years, so I'll check this out further, but this was a good sign for sure.

BTW Stoneykill, where in "upstate NY" are you? Orange county is about an hour north of NYC.


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## stonykill (Dec 27, 2007)

drivadesl said:


> Okay I picked up the sharpened chains and installed one. The stihl dealer says they sharpened them to 10D. These are 3/8X.050X114 Baileys ripping chains as installed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm 35 miles southeast of Albany, 5 miles from the mass border. 2 1/2 hours from NYC roughly. Take the sawmill to the taconic, Taconic to the end, I'm 5 miles from there. 

Sounds like you got it right now. A dull chain will mill but PAINFULLY SLOW! Your milling experiences should be much better now. When milling oak, expect to touch up the chain a lot. Every few passes on the size you're milling. Oak dulls chain fast.


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## woodshop (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh I just love happy endings...


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## 820wards (Dec 28, 2007)

stonykill said:


> I use Baileys chain exclusively. I haven't had any problems whatsoever with it, and I don't change the milling angles either. I've tried all the different mods to regular chain, and didn't see enough of an improvement over Baileys ripping chain to warrant the extra work. I would recomend Baileys chain. Good stuff.



Dustytools/Stonykill,

Thanks for the input. I like the idea of asking people who have used a product before I jump in with both feet and buy something I'll regret later. I think my local lawnmower shop has the Baileys brand ripper chain. I just looked at a 48" Black Oak at my buddys place yesterday that went down last year. The two main limbs are easily 34" in diameter. This tree is going to be a monster just get it cut into manageable pieces. It fell right across his rigging of his mine. Good thing he has a tractor/bulldoser...

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 28, 2007)

*Bar Length?*



stonykill said:


> I'm 35 miles southeast of Albany, 5 miles from the mass border. 2 1/2 hours from NYC roughly. Take the sawmill to the taconic, Taconic to the end, I'm 5 miles from there.
> 
> Sounds like you got it right now. A dull chain will mill but PAINFULLY SLOW! Your milling experiences should be much better now. When milling oak, expect to touch up the chain a lot. Every few passes on the size you're milling. Oak dulls chain fast.



What's the length of your bar?

jerry-


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## zopi (Dec 28, 2007)

820wards said:


> What's the length of your bar?
> 
> jerry-



isn't that a bit personal?:hmm3grin2orange: 

sorry..my head would've exploded if i hadn't...:greenchainsaw:


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## Matildasmate (Dec 29, 2007)

*.050 bars*

Can anyone tell me what the thickness is of a standard .050 bar


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## 820wards (Dec 29, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Can anyone tell me what the thickness is of a standard .050 bar



My .050" Cannon bar is .175" thick.

jerry-


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## drivadesl (Dec 29, 2007)

820wards said:


> What's the length of your bar?
> 
> jerry-



Figure's a question like that coming from someone outside of SFO!


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## 820wards (Dec 30, 2007)

drivadesl said:


> Figure's a question like that coming from someone outside of SFO!



Real funny...

I live in a cowboy town way out side of SF dude so shelve that sort of talk!

jerry-
Retired @ 55
Married 
Two kids
One Grandson


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## Matildasmate (Dec 30, 2007)

820wards said:


> My .050" Cannon bar is .175" thick.
> 
> jerry-



Thank's for your response mate .


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## woodshop (Jan 12, 2008)

*I'm jumping ship for round ground chisel skip*

Spent the day milling slabs from the crotch of a huge sweetgum tree (395XP, 36 inch bar,.375/.063). I started with Bailey's milling chain but it dulled quickly and I threw on a brand new out of the box Oregon round ground chisel skip (75JGX). I gotta say, it milled through that gum much faster than brand new milling chain I been using (Baileys, think it's Carlton). Decided to use the csm instead of the Ripsaw for this one 12 inch wide crotch piece and I timed it out of curiosity. I was running down the cant between 2 and 3 seconds/inch, or about 27 seconds per foot. After milling eight 7ft boards (56 linear feet), it had slowed down to 34 seconds per foot (12" wide gum crotch). Yes the boards were not as smooth as with my milling chain, but not THAT much worse. Certainly not so bad that I'd need significantly more time on the planer, the surface was just a little rougher. I'd be willing to say though that it milled at least a third faster if not more, than milling chain. 

I was so impressed that I'm not using milling chain anymore, I will stick to this round ground chisel skip (Oregon 75JGX) since it is so much faster. I have a 36 inch bar... if I were using a bar 20 inches or less 3/8LP might be faster, but I'd like to find out. This stuff rocked through 12 inch wide sweetgum like it was crosscutting.

...anybody wanna buy half a hundred ft roll of Baileys milling chain?????


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## oldsaw (Jan 12, 2008)

I've got a loop of Stihl semi-chisel skip that I really like for milling. I've just got it somewhere between 7-10 degrees. It always has been a pretty fast chain.

Mark


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## zopi (Jan 12, 2008)

woodshop said:


> Spent the day milling slabs from the crotch of a huge sweetgum tree
> 
> ...anybody wanna buy half a hundred ft roll of Baileys milling chain?????



Didja get any pictures of the sweetgum crotch? got one out front that has been condemned by She Who Must Be Obeyed...

and no. :greenchainsaw: Been using off the shelf Stihl chain to mill with...no issues with it...gonna take one back to 10 deg or so eventually tho'


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## woodshop (Jan 13, 2008)

zopi said:


> Didja get any pictures of the sweetgum crotch? got one out front that has been condemned by She Who Must Be Obeyed...



Her is a pic of it... milled yesterday, I just ran it wet through the planer few times to check it out. Does have some interesting figure where the sapwood and heartwood intersect right through the crotch figure. I milled these 6/4 with the csm, and about 4 of the boards have as much figure as this, the rest have varying degrees of it and two have some bark inclusion. Milling crotch is always a crapshoot. Drying it without it splitting and cracking is yet another hurdle.






Actually, when it comes to milling crotch of logs, I like the figure right before you get to the actual crotch as it spreads out the rings in large arches, and makes beautiful cutting boards and such. Here is an example. Again, I just ran this through the planer a few times, it is still wet right off the saw from yesterday. Imagine how good this will look when it's cleaned off and oiled, without all the cutterhead marks from the planer spoiling the view.


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## zopi (Jan 13, 2008)

Sweet! thanks! I have a big spalted (maple?) gotta look the tree up..crotch out back that I will saw soon..ought to be good...

sweetgum is almost a weed here..I can get it by the ton...heck, i've got 
maybe 20 little ones that must be thinned for healthy growth in some of my bigger trees.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Jan 14, 2008)

My Dad and I have a "discussion" fairly often about sweetgum's value. With his background of logging in east Texas starting at the age of 9 (no kidding) he sees them as nothing more than weeds. However, just this last month, there was a dresser faced with sweetgum featured in the Readers Gallery section of Fine Woodworking magazine. 

It's plentiful and easy to mill so I don't pass it up.


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## zopi (Jan 14, 2008)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> My Dad and I have a "discussion" fairly often about sweetgum's value. With his background of logging in east Texas starting at the age of 9 (no kidding) he sees them as nothing more than weeds. However, just this last month, there was a dresser faced with sweetgum featured in the Readers Gallery section of Fine Woodworking magazine.
> 
> It's plentiful and easy to mill so I don't pass it up.



kinda like cypress..it's a good softwood for alot of things...most of it winds up in fence panels and mulch piles...I'll take every scrap of it i can get. 

>I< have barns to side. :greenchainsaw: 

I love the depth of grain you get out of sweetgum...gonna do a little panelling with it soon, i hope.


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