# A request



## John Paul Sanborn

Due to the gravity of this subject, we would like to ask everyone to maintain a more professional attitude in this forum.

Keep the comentary constructive and to the point. On the other forums we do allow a lot more leeway in practice then the Guidelines require, but the nature of this forum compells me to ask for greater restraint.

Thanks


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## Tim Walsh

I concur with John.

This is an incredibly sensitive topic. Please treat others like you would like to be treated.

Perhaps an example can help to make my point. Once, at a conference, a fatal accident was being discussed. Someone in the audience stood up and said that the victim had done everything wrong, was stupid and just stopped short of saying that the person deserved to die. A family member of the victim was in the audience.

Please think about what you say here, before you say it.

We all make mistakes; we all have accidents and know people that do. Let’s use this forum to share information and keep us all alive and accident free.

Thanks,

TMW


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## treeman82

Tim, I had overheard a very similar story to what you are describing. Somebody a few years back was killed in a chipper accident. One of the people on his crew left the company and went to work elsewhere. First day on the job his crew went to a commercial location and turned on the chipper. Apparently the father of the man who was killed worked in that building and could not deal with the sound of the chipper going.


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## TheTreeSpyder

Ya gotta know i agree; as i try to hold back a shriek about not being rude by putting down buried peoples..... Guess there even with the house (Green Mile) for the risks they've taken; gambles they've lost; more so than others. No sense kicking'em; this is hard work, they done it till the end; their debt is paid in full. Even giving us their lessons in doing so.

:angel:


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## Curtis James

Understood, appreciated and respected!


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## arboromega

second that


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## John Stewart

Pretty sad that you even had to post it John
Later
John


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## Mrs. ArboristSite

John,

Thanks for the post. You're a big help around here. Keep up the good work.


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## Jumper




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## blackwaterguide

I most heartily agree with you Mr. Sanborn. This business is so inherently dangerous that I have witnessed disfigurment and death more times than I care to recall. The prime watch word here is disgression and a proper, whiletrue and caring discussion of the facts. Haste with tongue is most dangerous to all involved. Have a heart. I know of a number of old trimmers who made it for decades before having a terrible accident. It can happen to any of us.


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## diltree

Good Post john.....I will hope we can all respect the unfortunate, because no matter how skilled or experienced any of us are, we deal with nature and any of us could have a similar fate. The Tree Care Industry is no Joke, especially when someone gets hurt.



www.dillontree.com


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## clearance

*POSt FROM 2003, WHATS UP?*

Post is from January 2003. Who was he talking about, to ask this? I guess I missed it, please tell me if you know about it. And why bring something up from years back with no explanation or background?


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## DDM

clearance said:


> Post is from January 2003. Who was he talking about, to ask this? I guess I missed it, please tell me if you know about it. And why bring something up from years back with no explanation or background?



this thread is a sticky its been at the top of the forum since it was started.


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## Jumper

There was an insenstive twit on this site who no longer visits. When people recounted injuries they were ridiculed as being stupid, moronic, untrained etc etc which is hardly a way of encouraging people to share their knowledge regarding this topic. He erased most of his posts, vanished, returned under another name and is gone again. No names, no pack drill.....And the sticky went up at least a year plus after the forum was started.


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## DDM

Yeah your correct the sticky went up 1-1/2 years after the forum opened.It opened around august 2001. WoW and i posted the 2nd thread hard to believe that was 
almost 5 yrs ago.


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## (WLL)

diltree said:


> Good Post john.....I will hope we can all respect the unfortunate, because no matter how skilled or experienced any of us are, we deal with nature and any of us could have a similar fate. The Tree Care Industry is no Joke, especially when someone gets hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com


think twice move once and never let your guard down accidents happen to the best and most experienced.


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## Gologit

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Due to the gravity of this subject, we would like to ask everyone to maintain a more professional attitude in this forum.
> 
> Keep the comentary constructive and to the point. On the other forums we do allow a lot more leeway in practice then the Guidelines require, but the nature of this forum compells me to ask for greater restraint.
> 
> Thanks



Well said. I agree.


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## John Paul Sanborn

Thank you sir.


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## ropensaddle

Man it is hard to believe anyone could be that uncaring and have family
good post John! I would hate to think my wife had to read some bs if I 
died on duty. Fact is; it is usually the experienced that end up doing the
really bad trees !


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## John Paul Sanborn

ropensaddle said:


> Fact is; it is usually the experienced that end up doing the really bad trees !



Sometimes, but people get in over their heads. 

Quite often the well trained get a little complacent, or rushed. The latter is where I have had my close calls, my habit of double checking before finishing a cut has helped me go home hail and whole at days end.

Fatigue also has a lot to do with it, I slow down and think each step when at the point were I want to just quit and go home.

There is a frequently quoted study by Davies or Bartlett that showed injuries were high in newer employees, and those around 8 years with a trough on the chart between and a steep dropoff after 9 years.


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## bmacroy

*Climbing Is Deadly*

I have seen just about the worst a man can go through from injures due to a fall in climbing. My Father-in-law was a second generation climber, and had been climbing for 20yrs when he fell 18 feet. A lanyard issue cost him his life and more money than most the people here have ever seen combined. I am not beinmg cynical only honest. When he fell he landed on his neck. He destoyed his 6 vertebrae, broke his 4,5th, and broke his right arm right leg. The trauma from his impact caused a bloodclot in his intestines that resulted in the loss of 20feet of small intestines. They had to take a bone from his hip to make him a 6th vertebrae. He was in the Trauma unit for 15 weeks at UAB in Alabama. One of the best Hospitals in the nation. I was with him when he fell. This may sound a little graphic but it is huge price to pay from the risk involved in climbing. Few field of labor have these kind of risk day in and day out. His total bill at UAB was over 24 million dollars. He lived three years after his accident and died from complications of beind a quadrapeligic. His quality of life was more than anyone can imagine. His total Healthcare was almost 100 million dollars. I have learned life altering wisdom from this tradegy. But for climbing one thing is it doesnt payu enough. For the simple risk.


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## fireman

*trees*

What we do is not a job its a way of life a passion.Only certain people can do what we do for the love of being outside and one being with nature.When the big guy calls are name upstairs it is one with nature and a job we loved to do. Please all be safe and have compassion for those who have made the sacrifice.Its not our job to criticize but help console and learn.


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## huskykid141

*accidents*

No matter how good you are with working around trees your not good enough. A person that has been working around trees for 50 years and a person that has been woking around trees for 50 minutes still have an equal possibility of getting injured.


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## trimmmed

John Paul Sanborn said:


> *Due to the gravity of this subject, we would like to ask everyone to maintain a more professional attitude in this forum.
> 
> Keep the comentary constructive and to the point. On the other forums we do allow a lot more leeway in practice then the Guidelines require, but the nature of this forum compells me to ask for greater restraint.
> 
> Thanks*



Reminder bump


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## Rickytree

huskykid141 said:


> No matter how good you are with working around trees your not good enough. A person that has been working around trees for 50 years and a person that has been woking around trees for 50 minutes still have an equal possibility of getting injured.



I don't agree with that! I seen a guy with 50 years and he's still going. Make young men look like school kids! And I've seen 50 minutes. First day the kid went on comp cuz he tried to put a piece of wood in the truck and it fell on his widle shoulder.


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## M.Green - SVTS

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Due to the gravity of this subject, we would like to ask everyone to maintain a more professional attitude in this forum.
> 
> Keep the comentary constructive and to the point. On the other forums we do allow a lot more leeway in practice then the Guidelines require, but the nature of this forum compells me to ask for greater restraint.
> 
> Thanks



Like you said, due to the nature of this forum. It would be a shame to see someone acting immature in this forum. It's good to see from what I have read through so far that your rule is being followed.


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## vaclimber

*Keep a healthy fear.*

I truly am thankful for this post and those who are like-minded. I was blessed to learn arboriculture/climbing (initially) from two of the best all around arborist this area has ever had. I learned early on to NEVER make a mockery of safety (after having done so). Unfortunately, one of the mentors I mentioned is now dead because he didn't take the time to properly inspect an ivy covered crane removal. The lead he was tied into split out on the second pick and crushed him. His thirteen year old son was the first to see the grotesque result and is mentally scarred. Complacency kills.
Thanks


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## Ayatollah

I've learned quite a bit from this section, and now realize I've flirted with disaster more times than I was ever aware of. I'm actually pretty safety minded too. I've had to manage the careless nature of employees in my business, and they often throw caution to the wind. But still, I've performed some of the unsafe manuevers at the root of many tragedies described here. One thing I haven't read about here yet, but maybe because I haven't gotten that far yet, is doing something generally thought safe in most circumstances, and being attacked by some tree dwelling critter(s) suddenly, resulting in the need for a quick and haphazard escape. For me it was a bunch of wasps, but all kinds of animals, bugs, etc are found in trees. Snakes even


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## formationrx

*avoiding accidents*

in 21 years of tree work i have seen lots of people hurt very bad and worse.... some food for thought.... most of the time i have seen people hurt on the job its been from the following:

1. not using enough caution around the chipper or putting wood in wrong/carelessly.
2. relying on junk equipment
3. trusting trees/machines/equipment/co-workers too much
4. look up dummy!/ not wearing hard hat/ somethings coming down!
5. not focused/ lack of concentration/ bull****ers on the job/ lack of awareness of whats going on around them/you
6. if you are working near streets- look out for passing cars dummy 
7. communication failure/misunderstanding
8. lifting improperly/misjudging weight/ bending wrong
9. people coming to work not rested; they are danger to everyone on the team
10. dont stand too close to anything; you never know whats gonna happen 100%. know which way your gonna run/jump/kick out
11. improper training: there is a right way to reduce risk; we are not stuntmen
12. poor planning or no planning or lack of organization/supervision-- this is a disaster waiting to happen
13. the occasional stupid client who walks through a danger/landing zone totally obvious

what am i missing? help me out here guys......


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## teamtree

bmacroy said:


> *Climbing Is Deadly*
> 
> I have seen just about the worst a man can go through from injures due to a fall in climbing. My Father-in-law was a second generation climber, and had been climbing for 20yrs when he fell 18 feet. A lanyard issue cost him his life and more money than most the people here have ever seen combined. I am not beinmg cynical only honest. When he fell he landed on his neck. He destoyed his 6 vertebrae, broke his 4,5th, and broke his right arm right leg. The trauma from his impact caused a bloodclot in his intestines that resulted in the loss of 20feet of small intestines. They had to take a bone from his hip to make him a 6th vertebrae. He was in the Trauma unit for 15 weeks at UAB in Alabama. One of the best Hospitals in the nation. I was with him when he fell. This may sound a little graphic but it is huge price to pay from the risk involved in climbing. Few field of labor have these kind of risk day in and day out. His total bill at UAB was over 24 million dollars. He lived three years after his accident and died from complications of beind a quadrapeligic. His quality of life was more than anyone can imagine. His total Healthcare was almost 100 million dollars. I have learned life altering wisdom from this tradegy. But for climbing one thing is it doesnt payu enough. For the simple risk.


I often tell people it is a shame that people will pay good money to have someone come fix their toilet or change a few spark plugs and we struggle to get a decent rate for what we do in the tree care industry. I can't see telling a guy to go climb a tree and put his health at risk and not be able to pay him a decent wage. But my question would be are we doing it to ourselves......I mean, people come in to this business thinking they can make money and they go out and charge ridiculously low rates just to get work.


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## teamtree

fireman said:


> *trees*
> 
> What we do is not a job its a way of life a passion.Only certain people can do what we do for the love of being outside and one being with nature.When the big guy calls are name upstairs it is one with nature and a job we loved to do. Please all be safe and have compassion for those who have made the sacrifice.Its not our job to criticize but help console and learn.


But wouldn't it be nice to make a little more money for what we do and be able to do things more safely instead of taking the risks. I just try to compare our typical worker to a mechanic.....you go get your car fixed and they have no issues charging 85 and hour. I have a hard time getting 75 an hour per guy plus $300k in equipment.......granted I have 3 guys on a crew but they are in danger all day long and they work hard.


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