# Four hundred and fifty dollars worth please



## treemandan (Mar 13, 2009)




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## treeclimber101 (Mar 13, 2009)

What are we looking at here sir , your truck is for sale for 450 dollars I'll buy it lol


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## treemandan (Mar 13, 2009)

We just took out the major dead of this really nice old oak tree belonging to a young couple who had just bought the house.
He mentioned something about the 2 branches still over his house but that was his budget. We got the dead stuff and that was it. He agreed to that beforhand, that was what was written- Major deadwood to be removed... so we did.
Four and 1/2 hours at an easy pace. I climbed with both ends of my 200 footer and another 150 footer. I ttied mt TIP at the last stop( that's the very last crotch safe enough to tie into at the center of the tree. I was all over with the other ropes as well. I had set a few lowering lines before I went up , still I had to pull a lot of rope today, it was fun, good time, went well.

Took a crotch in another oak for lowering some of it off the house


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 13, 2009)

nice job .


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2009)

Dan, pictures are lookin tough. Nice work, but you already knew that, lol.

Did you spike it? looked icy.  I couldn't help it.


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## treemandan (Mar 13, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Dan, pictures are lookin tough. Nice work, but you already knew that, lol.
> 
> Did you spike it? looked icy.  I couldn't help it.



Yes i did but only when I had to go up, not when I was coming down.


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 13, 2009)

Nice work Dan! I love feeding dead limbs through the chipper. Did the homeowner fish for the "how much to cut a tree like this down?" price.


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## treemandan (Mar 14, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Nice work Dan! I love feeding dead limbs through the chipper. Did the homeowner fish for the "how much to cut a tree like this down?" price.





No, thank God. Its the specimen of the neighborhood, I am at 222 he is 245, its was a refferal, I did stuff for the neighbors. The one guy has a homeade OWB, burns year round.

The kid, (HO) was good, we talked, he heard, as I was walking away he calls me back. No signature, word of mouth, he got what we were going to do on paper though and we did it.
HE looked around for prices and listened to others and doesn't have a lot of cash. I remember my first house, I thought we were doomed. He mentioned paying in cash so I dropped the price, there were many crinkled 5 dollar bills... and 5 ones. 
I would have liked to blow the gutters but I might have broke them and for the money I didn't want the risk. The place could use a roof, we were limb nurses in a maternity ward with it. We took the light down. Tell OD ladders are Ok and nobody is lazy around here.
Jesse and I took some pretty big ( about 10 limbs of 7 to 12 in dia) I got anything the would hit the house. The tree has some cankers and funky crotches but what can you do. I went around pretty good, Jesse did too, on the roof, in the yard, behind the chipper. I held the butt line for some which we just let down on the low roof or swung off. Some small stuff we brought tip tied through the middle. I actually used the pole about 10 times. I don't like that thing. Some of the white eyes from the front door side are from previous bad cuts and whatnot.
I used the 3/4 3strand ( well its a little thinner theses days) for working the thick crotches running slow on the butt line in these situations, use the 16 strand for the tip. I think before you head up a tree like this you take time to set numerous lines, then go to wawa for coffee and doughnuts. After all that zinging my fingers were numb but it got better with the hot coffee... and of course the doughnuts. Total time working on this job was approx 4 hours 2 guys.
Now the HO did ask me about the 2 limbs. Yeah, the little guy should come off, and we can get it, just not for 450. I hope I did right by everyone. One thing always echos in my head: " Just don't be giving it away you moron". I don't know, we talked about pruning it and getting limbs off, he said deadwood. He was thinking ' minimalist', so was I.


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## treemandan (Mar 14, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Guys wanna see something funny?
> 
> Tell Mandanman, I would like to make you MY climber. LMAOBTHIWBSY
> 
> That's short for...Laughin' my ass off big time here I wouldn't bull#### ya. :hmm3grin2orange:



Wha? Bu? huh? Whoa! I think you got us confused with some people you might be used to. Hey, that saw remark? Just playing but MAN ! The Dan don't like to see that, no sir.

And yes, yes you would. I bet you would like that very much, He gets that alot.


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## treemandan (Mar 14, 2009)

I did, I remember now. I told him I would clean up the the big oak real good around the bottom and raise it,also run up the oak on the left to crash out the dead for 750, he said "just the dead in the big oak then?" I said 500, he said yes and wrote 480 ( I am cool) he said cash my eyes lit up like a crack whore who sees, well, crack. No, just joking about the crack thing, the rest went down verbatum.


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## thejdman04 (Mar 14, 2009)

very nice


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 14, 2009)

I did 5 of those on Thursday in around 3.5 hours. No rigging, transferred from tree to tree for the first two, and was able to reach the third with the Hayauchi. On the fourth I came down to reset and did transferred to the fifth.

The only goof I had was when I got up into #4 I saw some some dead i needed the polesaw to get. Turned around and thought I could get the stuff over my head too. In my preclimb plan they I was going to climb out some laterals and then up towards my tie-in, then get those with the 020t. 

Ouch, big but on my foot, big bruise on the arch metatarsals. For a few minutes I was worried about a break too. Self-insult to self-injury, I then followed my original climb plan and had that cut right in my face !d'Oh!


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## ChiHD (Mar 14, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes i did but only when I had to go up, not when I was coming down.




4.5 hours for $450 seems a bit low but im sure you realize that after reading your other posts. Did you really spur the tree or are you joking?

From the way you described it I would of most likely charged $700-$800 depending on difficulty. The pictures don't really show what you did clearly though.


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## treemandan (Mar 14, 2009)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> 4.5 hours for $450 seems a bit low but im sure you realize that after reading your other posts. Did you really spur the tree or are you joking?
> 
> From the way you described it I would of most likely charged $700-$800 depending on difficulty. The pictures don't really show what you did clearly though.



No they don't show very well. We did go get coffee with those four and 1/2 hours... doughnuts too. Yes 700 to 800 would have gotten that one last limb over the house off for sure and that was what I thought I would want to work on this tree. I have to work with a budget, their budget. hence the title of the post. I did go and do a little more cause I was there but the one limb is kinda like a statement, its when the meter ran out. The HO told me his budget and we went with that. Minus a few butt logs what you see behind the chipper.
No spikes on The Dan, its a thing of elegant beauty none can deny. I did see wounds that looked like previous spike marks made by my ancestors. I once saw a guy about to spike a tree like that, I fainted. i learned to climb before I got used to spikes. I actually move slower in the tree with them. Every step the gaff has to be in a certain spot to work right but with your feet you can just tip-toe through the tulips... or in this case surf through an oak tree. Climbing around crotches that big is reminecsant of caving, its really cool.


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## jar1zx (Mar 15, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes i did but only when I had to go up, not when I was coming down].[/QUOTE
> 
> No spikes on The Dan].[/QUOTE
> 
> ?


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## treemandan (Mar 15, 2009)

jar1zx said:


> treemandan said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i did but only when I had to go up, not when I was coming down].[/QUOTE
> ...


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## treemandan (Mar 15, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I did 5 of those on Thursday in around 3.5 hours. No rigging, transferred from tree to tree for the first two, and was able to reach the third with the Hayauchi. On the fourth I came down to reset and did transferred to the fifth.
> 
> The only goof I had was when I got up into #4 I saw some some dead i needed the polesaw to get. Turned around and thought I could get the stuff over my head too. In my preclimb plan they I was going to climb out some laterals and then up towards my tie-in, then get those with the 020t.
> 
> Ouch, big but on my foot, big bruise on the arch metatarsals. For a few minutes I was worried about a break too. Self-insult to self-injury, I then followed my original climb plan and had that cut right in my face !d'Oh!



Five? What were you sick?

Yeah, the plan changes, you just move around, with a set of eyes on the ground its not that bad.


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## ChiHD (Mar 15, 2009)

treemandan said:


> No they don't show very well. We did go get coffee with those four and 1/2 hours... doughnuts too. Yes 700 to 800 would have gotten that one last limb over the house off for sure and that was what I thought I would want to work on this tree. I have to work with a budget, their budget. hence the title of the post. I did go and do a little more cause I was there but the one limb is kinda like a statement, its when the meter ran out. The HO told me his budget and we went with that. Minus a few butt logs what you see behind the chipper.
> No spikes on The Dan, its a thing of elegant beauty none can deny. I did see wounds that looked like previous spike marks made by my ancestors. I once saw a guy about to spike a tree like that, I fainted. i learned to climb before I got used to spikes. I actually move slower in the tree with them. Every step the gaff has to be in a certain spot to work right but with your feet you can just tip-toe through the tulips... or in this case surf through an oak tree. Climbing around crotches that big is reminecsant of caving, its really cool.




Nice, I actually started climbing with spurs when I was 17, worked for 2 years spurring almost everything we did. Then I went to school and learned how to climb properly, and learned how harmful spurs can be. Also, I know what it's like deasling with cheap people who don't value your time or services. I'm glad you left those limbs!!

I had a lady tell me last year that she only had $1500 to take down this huge hollow, hazardous silver maple. The bottom 10' was filled with concrete. so I told her I would remove it for her price but all the wood stays and I left it 15' high. It looked terrible but that was her budget!!

I try to do the right thing all the time but sometimes a cheap custmoer can be the straw to break this camel's back!!


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 15, 2009)

hey dan, is that the steel or aluminum portawrap?


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## Ed Roland (Mar 15, 2009)

quite a bit removed. Deadwood only makes you are a bargain @ $450.


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## ChiHD (Mar 15, 2009)

woodweasel said:


> quite a bit removed. Deadwood only makes you are a bargain @ $450.



is that supposed to be the same tree? if so is it taken from the same angle cause I cant see the evergreen in the second pic or the house?


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 16, 2009)

It looks like in the bottom photo, the evergreen will be behind you. The big limb coming off the left side in the bottom pic is on the right side in the other.


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## ChiHD (Mar 16, 2009)

*Liontail*

pic 2 liontailed much?

:camera:


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## pdqdl (Mar 17, 2009)

*Dan! Where are your truck signs?*

If you are going to do good work, you should spread the word around. Get some signs! Check out my comments on this thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=93098

Heck. Send me a note, give me some measurements, and I'll MAKE you a door sign. You shouldn't go around nameless. It ain't right.


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## treemandan (Mar 17, 2009)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> pic 2 liontailed much?
> 
> :camera:



Well, I only took out dead branches thankyou very much. I think its just the thing you take pictures with is not that good and you can see little stuff.


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## Treecareconcept (Mar 17, 2009)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> 4.5 hours for $450 seems a bit low but im sure you realize that after reading your other posts. Did you really spur the tree or are you joking?
> 
> From the way you described it I would of most likely charged $700-$800 depending on difficulty. The pictures don't really show what you did clearly though.



$100 per hr in the market I'm in is pretty good for a two man climb crew. I try to bid stuff at least $90 per hr. But right now stuff is slow and with unemployment in this area at over 10% money is tight. Even my high end customers are watching every dollar. I think you hit it right. but that's just my opinion.


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## ChiHD (Mar 17, 2009)

Treecareconcept said:


> $100 per hr in the market I'm in is pretty good for a two man climb crew. I try to bid stuff at least $90 per hr. But right now stuff is slow and with unemployment in this area at over 10% money is tight. Even my high end customers are watching every dollar. I think you hit it right. but that's just my opinion.




I guess we are not feeling it here that much yet. i'll keep ya posted though.


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## Greenstar (Mar 17, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I did 5 of those on Thursday in around 3.5 hours. No rigging, transferred from tree to tree for the first two, and was able to reach the third with the Hayauchi. On the fourth I came down to reset and did transferred to the fifth.
> 
> The only goof I had was when I got up into #4 I saw some some dead i needed the polesaw to get. Turned around and thought I could get the stuff over my head too. In my preclimb plan they I was going to climb out some laterals and then up towards my tie-in, then get those with the 020t.
> 
> Ouch, big but on my foot, big bruise on the arch metatarsals. For a few minutes I was worried about a break too. Self-insult to self-injury, I then followed my original climb plan and had that cut right in my face !d'Oh!



Try some quality full grain leather climbing boots. I use La Sportiva mountaineering boots. You'll pay $225, but they'll last you forever AND fit you like a glove after a year or two.
And a polesaw with extra blades on hand. I always have about 3 or 4 extra new blades on the dash now. Gilmour blades are only $13 ea. They're sharp as hell too. Take your arm off in one swipe. Save me a lot of extra work, and climbing all around uneccesarily. I just have to make sure the blade never rubs ladders or other pole saws and treat it like my regular saw, so it doesn't dull quick. Thats always the problem with most guys and their polesaws!!
Just make sure you don't hang it over your head! :greenchainsaw:


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## Greenstar (Mar 17, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes i did but only when I had to go up, not when I was coming down.


 :spam:

Spiking a live oak like that isn't cool. :jawdrop: At least in New England, there are a lot of oak problems now too especially. Thats uneccesary, I'm sorry.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 17, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Try some quality full grain leather climbing boots. I use La Sportiva mountaineering boots. You'll pay $225, but they'll last you forever AND fit you like a glove after a year or two.



I wear Vasque, near the same price, for that lib hitting my foot it would have taken a steel toung counter to have helped. Sticking to my original climb route would have made it all easier on the body as a whole too 

I'm not a big polesaw fan, I'd rather climb out to make a cut, though that Silky Hayauchi does make me "cheat" from time to time. For durability I like a 12 foot basswood pole with a ARS non-hook balde, for which i keep a box of replacements in the toolbox. At $15 a pop it is not worth fighting a dull or bent one. 

As for ladders...hate them...I'm almost all throwball and foot lock, unless I have someone else to move the ladder around for me. I can also transfer on a jamknot and ascender around 75% of the time, so I find taking a ladder off a truck more of a nuisance then not.


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## pdqdl (Mar 17, 2009)

JPS: For that first ascent, do you SRT, do you pull up a TIP and then DRT, or do you isolate a DRT?


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## M.Green - SVTS (Mar 18, 2009)

I am not trying to criticize your work but from the pictures, it almost seems like you left the buts from the limbs about 4 inches sticking out of the tree. I know Maple grows in a way that in some cases you have to cut them long but on an oak that large and in the spots you showed.

I could most likely be wrong and you did make the proper cuts. I am a big fan of Shigot and I value his opinions on proper tree maintenance more then some people who have been doing repeat work for 15 years watching there cuts heal.


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## M.Green - SVTS (Mar 18, 2009)

Nevermind Dan,

I didn't know I could right click and zoom with my mouse until now. Great job they look great.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 18, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> JPS: For that first ascent, do you SRT, do you pull up a TIP and then DRT, or do you isolate a DRT?



I DRT footlock with Mar-Bars, with my size i find that I need to crotch in too far down to make an effective SRT entry. Most of the time I'e tried it, I deflect the stem way too much for comfort. Then again, my entry TIP's give many the willies.

The rare occasions where I use SRT are when I have a limited area of the canopy to work, and it is a PITA to isolate my line.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 18, 2009)

M.Green - SVTS said:


> I could most likely be wrong and you did make the proper cuts.



I would argue that some of the cuts were a wee bit too close, into collar wood. When deadwood mature trees it often looks like stubs were left due to the live wood being left.

Some argue that if there is an hourglass formation on live tissue, you can cut it at the "first collar" and be safe. I feel that we should wound as little as possible.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 18, 2009)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> pic 2 liontailed much?
> 
> :camera:


You know what why don't you post some of your work then we can all pick it apart , I think it takes big ##### to critique pictures. :bang:


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## ChiHD (Mar 18, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> You know what why don't you post some of your work then we can all pick it apart , I think it takes big ##### to critique pictures. :bang:



I'll give you a free pass on this one. It was a joke, and from my earlier posts you might of known. I appreciate all the pics that get posted as I know how tough it is to get good pics when there's work to be done.

Just to be clear, great job.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 18, 2009)

:biggrinbounce2:


ArborCARE(705) said:


> I'll give you a free pass on this one. It was a joke, and from my earlier posts you might of known. I appreciate all the pics that get posted as I know how tough it is to get good pics when there's work to be done.
> 
> Just to be clear, great job.


 Thanks for the pass , i don't know what i would have done without it.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 18, 2009)

Dan, did you blow dry it when you were done?


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## ChiHD (Mar 18, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> :biggrinbounce2: Thanks for the pass , i don't know what i would have done without it.



your welcome


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## treemandan (Mar 18, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I would argue that some of the cuts were a wee bit too close, into collar wood. When deadwood mature trees it often looks like stubs were left due to the live wood being left.
> 
> Some argue that if there is an hourglass formation on live tissue, you can cut it at the "first collar" and be safe. I feel that we should wound as little as possible.









Yeah, you are both right, wee is right on, its close, a lot of the white eyes where older dead stubs I cut back, a little into the collar i admit on some but they are clean.
The first thing I think when I first fire the saw is " Now dude, don't #$%@ it up !" It would be easy to do huh? Sometimes it don't take much but a wee bit.


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## treemandan (Mar 18, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Dan, did you blow dry it when you were done?



Eh, well, you know its either a little of the top or a little of the bottom, slicing it off by the pound, charging by the pound. 
The HO told me another guy wanted to use a bucket.


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## treemandan (Mar 18, 2009)

Wolfking42084 said:


> hey dan, is that the steel or aluminum portawrap?



Steel


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## treemandan (Mar 18, 2009)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> I guess we are not feeling it here that much yet. i'll keep ya posted though.



You guys might thinking we busted our asses. Time could have been shaved but we were pissing around a lot. The job was cake and could have been handle in less time but SHOULD have was the question we asked ourselves... we went for coffee. I didn't sweat on that one at all.


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## treemandan (Mar 18, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> If you are going to do good work, you should spread the word around. Get some signs! Check out my comments on this thread:
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=93098
> 
> Heck. Send me a note, give me some measurements, and I'll MAKE you a door sign. You shouldn't go around nameless. It ain't right.



What's in a name?


Incognito Tree , it doesn't have to be very big and thanks.

Word of mouth works for me, I like to get up in the tree and scream as loud as i can " I am The Dan, the best freaking tree climber in the whole freaking world!" That's advertising right there,the phone don't stop ringing.

Anyway, I have some yard signs but feel cheesy using them,I don't like them myself. I like the trucks the way they are but if I were to put a sign on them it would read " KEEP BACK BI^%$" Like it says on my hoodies. 

I actually had some signs on the truck but took them off. I am sure I would get tons more work with them but I never like putting signs all over. Maybe I will put one up tommorow for ya.


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## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

Well...at least I offered !


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## treemandan (Mar 19, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Well...at least I offered !







 X 24


That's a case


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## treemandan (Mar 19, 2009)

M.Green - SVTS said:


> I am not trying to criticize your work but from the pictures, it almost seems like you left the buts from the limbs about 4 inches sticking out of the tree. I know Maple grows in a way that in some cases you have to cut them long but on an oak that large and in the spots you showed.
> 
> I could most likely be wrong and you did make the proper cuts. I am a big fan of Shigot and I value his opinions on proper tree maintenance more then some people who have been doing repeat work for 15 years watching there cuts heal.



Since these where old dead branch stubs they had condsiderable cavities, basically I cut just behind the cavity. 

I have always dared people to say some chit like that to me ( like what you just said above). No offense sir, its these types of comments that make me think a little before each cut and am actually thankful for your comments.

Some do say the line at which a tree walls off could be a little further out. I would think fresh live cut stub would be better than a decaying cavity.


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## Rickytree (Mar 19, 2009)

M.Green - SVTS said:


> I am not trying to criticize your work but from the pictures, it almost seems like you left the buts from the limbs about 4 inches sticking out of the tree. I know Maple grows in a way that in some cases you have to cut them long but on an oak that large and in the spots you showed.
> 
> I could most likely be wrong and you did make the proper cuts. I am a big fan of Shigot and I value his opinions on proper tree maintenance more then some people who have been doing repeat work for 15 years watching there cuts heal.



Shigot? Never heard of him! As far as cuts go, depends where they are done, how healthy the tree is, the species of tree, and if it was done correctly. This, coming from a guy who is trying to master the art of removal?


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## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

Lighten up, Ricky. It looks like a simple typographical error to me.

Unless you have never heard of Shigo. In that case, try here: http://www.shigoandtrees.com/


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## Greenstar (Mar 19, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I wear Vasque, near the same price, for that lib hitting my foot it would have taken a steel toung counter to have helped.



John Paul, Vasques don't even compare to La Sportivas. Vasques are a good looking, comfortable backpacking, great boot, don't get me wrong. And they fit great right out of the box.

La Sportiva's leather is about twice the thickness and take about a year just to break in. A lot of people return them because of this, because they tear their feet up. And these are not even the ones with the steel shank in the sole.


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