# Indoor Wood Boiler



## Bill Murray (Feb 2, 2010)

I am looking at purchasing an indoor wood boiler, I have been looking at the AHS WoodGun, does anyone have one of these? How well do they work?,

also any comments on the EKO-40 or the Econoburn?

how much wood do they burn, how reliable, Warrenty, are there any other good brands out there that i am not aware of?,


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## beerman6 (Feb 2, 2010)

:monkey: Shouldnt you be in PA with that stoopid groundhog?

I got no info to share,but Welcome to the forum.


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## Marc (Feb 2, 2010)

Bill Murray said:


> I am looking at purchasing an indoor wood boiler, I have been looking at the AHS WoodGun, does anyone have one of these? How well do they work?,
> 
> also any comments on the EKO-40 or the Econoburn?
> 
> how much wood do they burn, how reliable, Warrenty, are there any other good brands out there that i am not aware of?,



I think the two big guys you're missing are Garn and HS Tarm.

Try this forum though, lots of information and knowledgable people:

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/viewforum/21/


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## leon (Feb 2, 2010)

*boiler etc.*

You should also look at WDheat.com

about WD Heat
Rick is great guy to talk to and very well informed about the boilers he sells.

He is probably not that far from you as well unless youu are in the UP


An evergreen boiler will most likely cost you less money installed and you would be able to install a carport over the boiler up to the stack to store wood, keep it dry and have a location for a coal bin too. 

And keep the mess outside too.


The AHS boilers cost a lot to buy initially due to the heavy steel and construction of the units and the normal certification required for pressurised boilers for the PA standards. They have been building boilers for a long time like many others but They cost more and for that reason I will be purchasing an evergreen from the local dealer or rick when the time comes to replace the boiler I have. 




The heat guns and wood guns are rated for steam if steam is desired and hydrotested. 

they Also make the Coal gun coal boilers and furnaces 


They are always behind in thier orders and usually gets much worse during the heating season.

The units are PA certified just like the gentleman janitor coal stokers 



:chainsawguy:


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## Bill Murray (Feb 2, 2010)

*storage*

I have been told that i might need 1-2000 gallons of storage? can any one inform me on why?, how necessary is this?, what advantage do i have by doing this?


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## atlarge54 (Feb 2, 2010)

The newer gasification boilers aren't very happy in idle mode. Lots of people who run them have large storage tanks so the stove can burn full tilt loading the excess heat in storage to be used later when the structure needs it. 

What are you heating? 

Lots of theses stoves don't have large fireboxes so lots of babysitting is required. The ones with positive pressure fireboxes are prone to sealing issues and creosote odors.


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## tibikedad (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi,

I have a Tarm gasification boiler with an 820 gallon storage tank. The tank size is sufficient when the weather is 30 degrees or above, but when the temp drops below 20, I wish I had one twice as large. The previous poster is accurate when he said that gasification boilers don't like to run in idle mode. They are very efficient and clean burning if you are running full bore, dumping heat into the house and the storage tank. Then, you slowly draw heat out of the tank during the day, with the boiler shut down. At night, you repeat the cycle again.

If you size your tank right, on milder days, you only have to do one burn (or less) a day. In the summer, since I get my DHW from the same tank, I burn once a week, using about 3/4 load of wood. My total wood usage is about 10 chords for heat and DHW for a 3000 sq ft house. When I replace my leaky windows, I think I can reduce that to about 8 chords.


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## leon (Feb 2, 2010)

*boiler*



Bill Murray said:


> I have been told that i might need 1-2000 gallons of storage? can any one inform me on why?, how necessary is this?, what advantage do i have by doing this?



It all depends on a number of issues including actual dwelling area, heat loss, available capital.


Having storage allows you to burn less often if desired.


But an outdoor boiler like the evergreen with 400,000 BTU has its own insulated storage which is the water jacket.


The advantage of buying a boiler that is twice the size of your home heating system is you are able to burn a very small hot fire and heat the very same water all the time with a small fire by simply throwng a few pieces of wood in every couple of hours or a coffee can of coal. 

If you buy an evergreen sequoiyah the 390 gallons of water is heated and you can have a low burning temperature heating that entire water tank and heating your home. Filling the fire bix half full or more with standard fire brick reduces the square area of the grates available for the fire box but the fire brick become thermal mass just like the water jacket does and you always have the option of burning at a higher temperature if desired but not have any wasted fuel as the fire is always hot and stays hot. 


I heat my drafty old poorly insulated 110 year old house and use a wood coal boiler with 25 gallons of water and an oil back up with 18 gallons of water.


The wood coal boiler has the fire box volume half filled with fire brick and the fire brick is resting on a 12 by 12 inch piece of channel iron I have a hot burn with a natural draft boiler with a low fuel use lately its been 50 pounds a day of anthracite nut coal.


The fire brick holds the heats and keeps the fire hot all the time burning the coal and wood is burned to a fine powder ash and I have no trouble with clinkers from iron.

Using the Sequoia as an example the 390 gallons of water is heated and used to warm your home, shop, or garage etc., with the efficiency by creating a smaller fire box with the addition of fire brick to occupy half or more of the fire box size which has many advantages it allows you to keep the fire forwand and allow you to remove the ashes as they are easy to remove.

A smaller fire also reduced the chance or intensity of blow back out the loading door or ash pit door. 

The smaller fire in the reduced fire box is not a lost cause as the fuel is buirned hot and not wasted by exiting as smoke out the stack.

As long as you burn seasoned wood and dry soft wood and anthracite you will not upset the neighbors with any smoke from the stack.

The smaller hotter fire created by the addition of the fire brick for half the volume of the boiler also guarantees the neighbors will not see much if any smoke from the smaller wood fire as well and of course none with coal.

Burning soft wood will be no problem as the fire brick keeps the fire hot and all the gasses burning.


 




You still have the option of filling the firebox fo9r the overnights knowing the wood or coal will not go to waste as it is heating 390 gallons of water for you every minute it burns for you.
I want to eventually install an out door boiler when the other boiler goes bad as want to leave the mess outside and keep it out side.


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## Bill Murray (Feb 3, 2010)

i’m Back ,What do you use for storage?not easy to add now. what I burn now is 2 bags of pellets 80lb, wood stove in living room all day and night and propane,when needed. 93 year father-in-law likes it warm. “so do I” but my gas boiler is only150,000 btu and only runs part time by itself, am thinking bigger is not better. I use-to have an old coal stoker that 
I feed with wood, used about 30 cord, and heated well, but pain to clean! ” history” i am a U.S.A.buyer as much as i can be. Any info is good. I have burned wood for 34 years,just looking for a better
boiler No money from movies yet! thanks Bill.


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## mdtreemover (Feb 3, 2010)

I have an AHS model E 250. It has the oil backup option, but I have not bought the burner head yet. I previously used a Mahoning for about 8 years. I switched to the AHS because of the reduction in smoke, (neighbor relations), and the reduction in the amount of wood burned. I went from a 10-12 foot log twice a day or more with the old Mahoning, to about a wheel barrow or so a day with the AHS. I have run my AHS with a 300 gallon nurse tank, and without it. I find it does better without. 
Stats: Old farmhouse wooden framed, little insulation on half the house with radiators, addition on other side (1960) better insulated, with hot water baseboard. 
I built a "boiler room" when I bought the AHS. It is 16'x16' interior with a 8'x 16' overhang. Good place to leave wood in a pile out of the weather,and still park the skidloader with grapple bucket! The stove sits on the pad I poured for the Mahoning 8'x10'. All pipes now come up into the building. I have a door on the east side under the overhang. I do NOT miss loading in the rain snow or wind. I told my wife the only thing I would have done different is put a tunnel in, to go from the house to the stove!
I payed the extra and got the stainless insides, and the oil backup electric plumbed from the factory. Like any system it takes some time to dial it in. I have always had good response from them, and we have worked thru any issues together to solve any problems. The product is stout and you get what you pay for. 
Good luck to you Bill! Gerard


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## rancher2 (Feb 3, 2010)

I have a Garn 2000 and I like it a lot. These are not cheap units but they work very well. Check out there web site you will learn why storage is nice there are times I wish I had more than the 2000 gallons I have.


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## Bricks (Feb 4, 2010)

I have an EKO40 gasification boiler without storage, just installed my self this last fall. We heat 2300 sf house, direct hot water, shop thats 1120 sf with 12 foot ceiling well insulated, live in midwest Wisconsin. We are on track to burn roughly 6 chords this winter. Our wood is not the greatest dry but it`s wood that has been down from a storm roughly 6 years ago, so some is pretty good and some is getting punky.

Without storage it takes a little to figure out how to run this boiler from really cold temps to when the weather gets warmer. Cold is easy just fill it and let her run. Warmer temps only throw in abour 4-5 peices of wood 3-4 times a day. I am hoping to have storage in by next fall and only burning once a day during cold temps and maybe burn once every 2-3 days in the shoulder season. Using storage I should be able to get my wood useage down to roughly 5 chords.

At this time I don`t beleive I would even consider buying any type boiler unless it is EPA certified, the way states and comunities are puttin the cabosh on OWB.


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## Bill Murray (Feb 5, 2010)

do any of the boilers have issues when loading wood being positive pressure, 
do they smoke when the door is opened, do the fans shut down when the door is opened a little
is there any issue with smoke at any time, door seals, are there any issues with the refrectory tubes on the econoburn
i know that they need to be replaced every so often, how much are they, how hard are they to change. Once a year/five years?


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## leon (Feb 5, 2010)

*boilers etc.*



Bill Murray said:


> do any of the boilers have issues when loading wood being positive pressure,
> do they smoke when the door is opened, do the fans shut down when the door is opened a little
> is there any issue with smoke at any time, door seals, are there any issues with the refrectory tubes on the econoburn
> i know that they need to be replaced every so often, how much are they, how hard are they to change. Once a year/five years?


===================================================================================================================
Any indoor boiler whether its forced draft or natural like mine require some work prior to loading and or checking it- I open the manual damper and let it burn to heat it up and exhaust the smoke before I open the doors.


I have a peep hole to check my boilers fire so I only open it when I need to add wood or coal.


Any forced draft boiler will require the fan to be shut off prior to opening the door to prevent blowback.

The ever green line has a hookstop latch to prevent both the loading door and ash pit door being opened before the pressure equalizes and tgries to escape out the front- You have to shut the blower off, and wait and then open the latch and when you pull the door you have move the latch again to open the door in a different path to open it. 

The door gaskets are a simple wear and compression issue as they are a wear part and require replacement.

A door seal will fail and you will know when the door does not seal up the smoke in the boiler wanders out the door.


ANY boiler that is forced draft will require you to be careful and the new latches help blow back when the forced draft fan is off by slowly allowing the gasses to exit when the door is cracked open and held at the first stop slowly controlling the rate of oxygen entering the fire box by the loading or ash pit door as it is opened to the first stop as the heat energy is looking for oxygen to burn.


The evergreen has water tubing exposed in the top of the fire box as well as the exposed portions of the fire box and it has a snoke bypass door to aid in loading the boiler.


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## mdtreemover (Feb 5, 2010)

Bill, 
Great Questions,
The AHS is forced air and they have a plate that hangs on the inside on two pins to keep the smoke from rolling out. First thing I removed as it was blocking the path for wood to enter, even though it swung in. I usually make sure the fan is on and there is a light on the front to signal it is "safe" to open the door. Smoke still escapes and I thought about a hood to draw extra smoke away. They have a hood for this now, and I have talked to them about it. But mine is an outside building with full peak vent so it escapes out the top. 
I was at the factory/show room last week picking up replacement bricks for the bottom( slotted ones, it takes three at 16" long each) Mine probably could have gone three seasons. Actually the one to the back I left in, the front one was the worst, and the middle one cracked as I removed the front piece. Cost $58.95 each, $186.75 total. Easy job 20 minutes, just have to let her cool down! :blob4:
As far as smoke coming out, door seal rope, Like leon said! Doors themselves are stout, handles are nice, and ease of cleaning is good. 
It is snowing here, I just checked the fire box, and its a balmy 80 in the house!:wave:
I am dog sitting for a friend so I have my three, Chessie, Aussie, and Havanese- and their three, 2 border collies and a shetland ! :rockn:


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## muncybob (Feb 6, 2010)

mdtreemover said:


> Bill,
> Great Questions,
> The AHS is forced air and they have a plate that hangs on the inside on two pins to keep the smoke from rolling out. First thing I removed as it was blocking the path for wood to enter, even though it swung in. I usually make sure the fan is on and there is a light on the front to signal it is "safe" to open the door. Smoke still escapes and I thought about a hood to draw extra smoke away. They have a hood for this now, and I have talked to them about it. But mine is an outside building with full peak vent so it escapes out the top.
> I was at the factory/show room last week picking up replacement bricks for the bottom( slotted ones, it takes three at 16" long each) Mine probably could have gone three seasons. Actually the one to the back I left in, the front one was the worst, and the middle one cracked as I removed the front piece. Cost $58.95 each, $186.75 total. Easy job 20 minutes, just have to let her cool down! :blob4:
> ...



How long have you owned your unit? Also curious as to how many cords of wood you burned before needing the replace the bricks? Have you replaced the door seals yet?...also curious as to how long I can expect them to last. I too took off the smoke shield but replaced it as it seems to help a lot with smoke out the door.I'm in my first year with the E-100 wood/oil combo unit.


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## mdtreemover (Feb 8, 2010)

muncybob,

I "wood " estimate I am burning about 1 - 1.5 chords a month give or take. May be more, I don't keep track honestly. 
I have owned this E-250 since I got it up and running January of 2007.
I got almost three years out of the bricks. How do you load your wood? How do you retain your coals? That plays into longevity. 
Is yours in your home?
Door seals are still good! The little light bulbs burn out quick.
Hey which oil burner do you have on your backup?

Gerard:hmm3grin2orange:


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## muncybob (Feb 8, 2010)

Your heat demand must be greater than mine. We heat apprx. 2100 sq ft...2 zones. 1 zone at 70 degrees most of the time, the other at 65 unless we plan to occupy it(game room) then it gets kicked up to 70. 
Only gone through 2.5 cords since October including dhw. Boiler is in our basement so residual heat loss does help to heat living room above it. At this time of the year we load her up full twice a day with a smaller load mid day...I will remove a lot of the coals with the weekly ash clean out but leave enough in there to start the fire again.
I asked about the brick longevity since I understand the older units went through them often as did the seals. Mine are good except I see the rear door will probably need some attention in the off season. The oil burner is a Reillo...don't use it very often. I think the newer models have led lights...supposed to last longer.


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## mwmccahren (May 28, 2010)

*firebrick*

Leon,
I like the firebrick idea, although i can't picture the plate placement. My dad has a Huge Mahoning that could use the benefits of a hotter fire. I'm interested in any efficiency modifications in his firebox anyone may suggest (like baffles or adding pipe to the bottom of the stack). I'm the one that cuts his firewood for that hog!


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## leon (May 28, 2010)

*wood etc.*



mwmccahren said:


> Leon,
> I like the firebrick idea, although i can't picture the plate placement. My dad has a Huge Mahoning that could use the benefits of a hotter fire. I'm interested in any efficiency modifications in his firebox anyone may suggest (like baffles or adding pipe to the bottom of the stack). I'm the one that cuts his firewood for that hog!



OK first things first:


1. I will assume that your shaker grates are secured in a frame that is welded to the boiler sides whether the shake is side to side like my switzer or forward and back like the gentleman janitor is no issue.

2. The frame for the shaker grates has a ledge in the boiler on both long sides.


3. measure the total width of the boiler interior at the shaker grates(mine is 12 inches)


4. measure the length of the interior of the boiler (mine is 24 inches)



now you can buy a piece of 2 inch channel iron the width of the boiler fire box.

It HAS TO BE the full width of the fire box or the grates will not work properly to shake ashes







Now for the business end of things:

measure the length, width and height of the fire box 
to get the cubic inches of the fire box in total



Measure from the grates to just below the chimney exit bore.

use this measurement to obtain the volume for the fire brick needed for standard fire brick-DO NOT buy the Half bricks they break and and are a pain


If your fire box is 12 inches wide order the 12 by 12 fire brick crappie keith has for sale and order enough brick slabs from him to fill the firebox to just below the chimney flue on the boiler filling the fire box half full exactly.


Otherwise use the standard dimension fire bricks to buy enough fire brick at a cinder block and stone products place, you will end up stacking bricks on their sides on one side of the boiler to fill it.


It reduces the amount of space that simply wastes smoke by creating a huge heat sink and the fire bricks become a huge block of radiant heat storage mass.


The combustion air will no longer become lazy and allow things to smoulder
and lttle heat is actually lost because the fire box is half full and the fire brick absorbs the heat given off as wll as the boiler walls, you have much less creosote as it has very little opportunity to form as the combustion air becomes much faster in its travel from the air inlets to the flue pipe.

This aids burning coal immensely as the fire box is half size with a full air inlet.
and it burns hot and I have found it will burn out completely to a dud and no coal fire left and huge clinkers from iron but thats ok as I sometimes did not leave the ash pit door open for a good fire and very little coal is left un burnt but having a sifter and patience is worth the time. 

dont worry about pulling the individual bricks out either as their is no need to as it burns so hot there is very fine ash and no goo from creosote.

The flue pipe chimney clean out will need more tending(a shop vac used to blow the fine ash out works wonders, but the fine ash is what you want anyway. 

My chimney is fully exposed so any build ups are non existant.

I will probably add a squirrel cage fan in the ash pit door this year as I have a terrible time with down drafts when I burn sometimes (the flue pipe is 8 inches exiting the wood and coal boiler).



as the chimney is 8 by twelve and shares the oil boiler 12 ich flue pipe


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## mwmccahren (Jun 1, 2010)

*Thanks Leon*

Great details! I'll let you know how it goes.


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