# What porting tools are you using?



## SawGarage (Jun 22, 2010)

Hey guys,


getting ready for a few saw builds, and am a bit new to the saw world

(not new to engine building.... ported MANY a 4-stroke, and some 2 stroke dirt bike, banshee, etc)

I wanna see what you guys use for tools... please 

and what you use where for attachments...

my main tool is this:






accepts 1/4" tools!


i'd love to get a 90 deg attachment for it, but have NO IDEA where to look... i guess there's one for the smaller dremel, but i do not own one ( i might need to buy more tools!!!

also, what to you use to get through the chrome? do you hit this spot 1st?

Thanks!! :biggrinbounce2:


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## blsnelling (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm using the same shaft-drive Dremel I started with. It's still going, but I think the bushings are getting a little worn. Where did you buy your Dremel? I've not seen one that large. Looks like a Foredom.


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## SawGarage (Jun 22, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I'm using the same shaft-drive Dremel I started with. It's still going, but I think the bushings are getting a little worn. Where did you buy your Dremel? I've not seen one that large. Looks like a Foredom.



really? so a 'little' guy? damn Brad, with all the porting you do! :jawdrop: that's a testament to the durability, that's for sure.

well, saws are small, when your building race v-8's it take a bit more tool. 

it's 1/3HP, just like a foredom, but was considerably less ( i think i paid under 200 with discounts and a coupon)

Sears catalog, actually, bout 10 yrs ago

i have 1/8, 3/16 & 1/4" collets, so i can use my larger carbides. makes QUICK work of intake and exhaust.


do you have a 90 for your dremel?


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## blsnelling (Jun 22, 2010)

SawGarage said:


> really? so a 'little' guy? damn Brad, with all the porting you do! :jawdrop: that's a testament to the durability, that's for sure.



Yup! It's a model 400 XPR. It's the bushing's in the shaft handpiece that may have some wear in the bushings, but it's still working fine for now. My local Lowes has replacement marked down to about half price. Even still, I'd rather spend that money on a Foredom. The need just hasn't dictated it yet though.


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## nmurph (Jun 22, 2010)

brad, i thought you bought a foredom. i remember you asking some questions.
this is what i bought.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Foredom-Flex-Sh...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf0106ce3

a flex shaft is a tool that you will find many ways to use.


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## blsnelling (Jun 22, 2010)

nmurph said:


> brad, i thought you bought a foredom. i remember you asking some questions.



I did some homework, but still haven't had to buy one yet. The Dremel just won't die and still does a good job. I think I'll buy the talbe top unit when I do buy. I guess that's just what I'm used too with the Dremel head laying on the table.


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## rmihalek (Jun 22, 2010)

The tool on the right is the Foredom handpiece. The one on the left is from C&C Specialty Tools.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Jun 22, 2010)

*Jump right in there J!*

I use a foredom, dremel, and a router:greenchainsaw:

Where's Al!?! We're dealing with a 371 right here.


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## blsnelling (Jun 22, 2010)

rmihalek said:


> The one on the left is from C&C Specialty Tools.



Now there's a pricey piece right there! Very nice as well!


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## Arrowhead (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm a newbee to the porting and had a similar thread a while back. I got a lot of great responses. I use a 1/4" air die grinder for roughing out the exhaust and lower transfers. It works _quick!_ Then I use a flex shaft Dremel to do the finish grinding and some polishing. I use the Dremel diamond cut off wheels to do the uppers. Most of the cutters I use are the double cut carbide. For polishing, I found sandpaper on a wooden dowel seems to work the best.


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## rmihalek (Jun 22, 2010)

I forget what it cost; I think it was under $300, but not by much, maybe $289 or something like that.

I hit the limit with it last weekend trying to open up the transfers on my Solo637 top handle saw. I was hoping to be able to angle it in there, but the bore is just too small.


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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 22, 2010)




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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 22, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> I use a foredom, dremel, and a router:greenchainsaw:
> 
> Where's Al!?! We're dealing with a 371 right here.



Go the 371!


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## Gumnuts (Jun 22, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


>



Looks good Aussie .
What's the story ? Where from and how many pieces of 8 ?

I bought a cheap Red Chino-ebay one few years back ,Need to replace /lock crapped out.

Would have thought ,bushings replacable Brad.

Graeme


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## blsnelling (Jun 22, 2010)

Gumnuts said:


> Would have thought ,bushings replacable Brad.
> 
> Graeme



They very well may be. It just hasn't become a problem yet.


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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 22, 2010)

Greame I bought it off Ebay.
I bought it mostly for the upper transfers as I still use the Dremel for everything else, but yeah, this Dremel is starting to rattle a little also.
The "RA" bits for it are hard to source so I had to mod some myself.


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## roncoinc (Jun 22, 2010)




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## CGC4200 (Jun 22, 2010)

*Do you need a 90 degree attachment?*

Never ported , but interested.
Can you do it with a straight shaft tool from outside of cylinder or need
another tool?


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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 22, 2010)

CGC4200 said:


> Never ported , but interested.
> Can you do it with a straight shaft tool from outside of cylinder or need
> another tool?



The only thing you use the angle for is the upper transfers.
Others get away with using A Oxide wheels etc to get the uppers around to the inlet more. This is OK but doesn't do the job as complete as a right or contra angle.


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## rms61moparman (Jun 22, 2010)

http://www.harborfreight.com/flexible-shaft-grinder-and-carver-40432.html

This is what I use for the "shade tree" hacking I do.
A $20.00 and free shipping set of carbide burrs from eeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Bay.
Sometimes a cordless drill and some 1/4" shank burrs for the heavy stuff.


Mike


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## SawGarage (Jun 23, 2010)

rmihalek said:


> The tool on the right is the Foredom handpiece. The one on the left is from C&C Specialty Tools.





*NOW THAT IS SEXAY!!*





AUSSIE1 said:


> Go the 371!




What in the WORLD is that????? is that a dentist tool???

*371*
Hell YEAH! top end is like NEW! just need to make it better  I heard I should be wanting to ask permission to pick your brain a bit on the topic of some super saws I plan soon (371, 288, 394, etc) 



roncoinc said:


>



What in the earth??? for the upper x-fers?



rms61moparman said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/flexible-shaft-grinder-and-carver-40432.html
> 
> This is what I use for the "shade tree" hacking I do.
> A $20.00 and free shipping set of carbide burrs from eeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Bay.
> ...



i remember when that tool was 80-ish.... for saws it won't take a lot of abuse... good deal.


Thanks guys...keep the thoughts coming!

J


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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 23, 2010)

No problems mate. There is plenty now who can pitch in and give help. 

Yeah Dentist drill. Can be used for persuasion on those late on payments also.


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## rmihalek (Jun 23, 2010)

*C&C Specialty*

C&C Specialty updated their website and now has better pictures of the porting tools. When I bought this handpiece a few years ago, the website had fuzzy black&white photos that made all the tools look cheap. I bit the bullet anyway and sent the $$.

I was really surprised when the tool arrived at how stout it is. It's a very well made piece and can handle all the torque that the Foredom motor (geared down 3:1) can put out. 

In fact, it's really easy to remove too much metal too fast. I run the tool slowly and use very light pressure.


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## blsnelling (Jun 23, 2010)

rms61moparman said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/flexible-shaft-grinder-and-carver-40432.html
> 
> This is what I use for the "shade tree" hacking I do.
> A $20.00 and free shipping set of carbide burrs from eeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Bay.
> ...



Any chance it will accept Foredom hand pieces?


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## rms61moparman (Jun 23, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Any chance it will accept Foredom hand pieces?



I believe it will from the looks of it, but I don't know anyone in this part of the world wealthy enough to own a Foredom so I can find out for sure.

I almost bought a Foredom flex cable off of eeeeeeeeeeee-Bay that I was gonna try but was outbid at the last minute.


Mike


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## SawGarage (Jun 23, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> No problems mate. There is plenty now who can pitch in and give help.
> 
> Yeah Dentist drill. Can be used for persuasion on those late on payments also.



LOL...

that must be one EXPENSIVE piece new!! 

how well does it work for 40ish mm stuff? i want to do a bit of work to a closed port 55 while i have it apart.


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## blsnelling (Jul 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Yup! It's a model 400 XPR. It's the bushing's in the shaft handpiece that may have some wear in the bushings, but it's still working fine for now. My local Lowes has replacement marked down to about half price. Even still, I'd rather spend that money on a Foredom. The need just hasn't dictated it yet though.





blsnelling said:


> I did some homework, but still haven't had to buy one yet. The Dremel just won't die and still does a good job. I think I'll buy the talbe top unit when I do buy. I guess that's just what I'm used too with the Dremel head laying on the table.



Well, that day has finally come. The Dremel power head is fine, but the flex drive has died. Do I spend the money, although not a lot, to replace the flex drive, or go ahead and get the Foredome I want? Here's the one I want. MOTOR. HAND PIECE. Maybe I'd add this angled head later on. H.55A


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## srcarr52 (Jul 5, 2010)

*Foredom H55D vs. NSK IC-300*

I have a Foredom hanging motor and an H55D handpiece. The combination is great for getting into really small cylinder transfer ports but it is a light duty unit and had a few downfalls. After about 15 minutes of use the handpiece is hot enough to burn your hand.

The other downfall of the handpiece is that it will only take 3/32" latch burs. I find it impossible to find decent latch style burs but if you look you can find 3/32" regular burs and cut the latch drive in by hand. 

I think the next handpiece I get will be the CC specialties type shown previously in this thread. CC specialties are actually reselling a NSK (Nakanishi Eneska of Japan) handpiece and a adapter to convert it to the Foredom flex drive. These handpieces are originally designed for the NSK Electer E-max motor and control system I think for lab dental work. 

I've looked around on the internet and I have not been able to find the handpiece and adapter at a much better price then CC. 

Here is a list of NSK handpieces which I assume you would be able to use with the adapter (the yellow straight piece shown before). You can look these up and dream of how much easier porting would be with them. I would especially like the KC-300 and the MFC-300S.

NSK BKH-300 - Straight, slim body
NSK MH-300 - Straight, slim body
NSK KC-300 - Angle head, 60ish deg
NSK IC-300 - Right angle head, <-shown earlier in this thread
NSK IC-390 - Right angle head, micro
NSK MFC-300S - Right angle, long body

NSK FA-200 - Adapter to Foredom flex drive


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## rms61moparman (Jul 5, 2010)

Brad,

Get what you want and enjoy it!
You will be old one day looking at the tool you really don't like and saying..."If I had bought the one I wanted when Mike told me to, it would have paid for itself many times over and I would have had what I wanted".
There is value in pride of ownership.

I am a cheapskate! 
I am happy with a tool that does what it's supposed to do for little $$$ but
if I were going to be doing as much of this type of work as you do, I would want the tool that makes it easiest even if it cost a few more coins.
It's not like something that doesn't earn its keep.
My2!


Mike


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## AUSSIE1 (Jul 5, 2010)

srcarr52 said:


> I have a Foredom hanging motor and an H55D handpiece. The combination is great for getting into really small cylinder transfer ports but it is a light duty unit and had a few downfalls. After about 15 minutes of use the handpiece is hot enough to burn your hand.
> 
> The other downfall of the handpiece is that it will only take 3/32" latch burs. I find it impossible to find decent latch style burs but if you look you can find 3/32" regular burs and cut the latch drive in by hand.
> 
> ...



Yep, the contra angles do get hot. You find you will only use them for the uppers anyway. I do one side, do some other porting then do the other side.

The burs for these are the "RA" type. If you can't find the "RA" burs, you can locate long shaft 3 3/32" - 2.35mm (I think), mount them in a drill press and cut a groove with the cut off wheel of a dremel then mount in a vise and cut to length and cut your flat.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 5, 2010)

I only have a single porting tool. Money.


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## SawGarage (Jul 5, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Yep, the contra angles do get hot. You find you will only use them for the uppers anyway. I do one side, do some other porting then do the other side.
> 
> The burs for these are the "RA" type. If you can't find the "RA" burs, you can locate long shaft 3 3/32" - 2.35mm (I think), mount them in a drill press and cut a groove with the cut off wheel of a dremel then mount in a vise and cut to length and cut your flat.





oooohhhhhppp.... latch type. ok. I'm throwin in the white flag... i'm green here....

pics? anyone? help! lol :monkey:


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## AUSSIE1 (Jul 5, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> I only have a single porting tool. Money.



Nothing wrong with that.



SawGarage said:


> oooohhhhhppp.... latch type. ok. I'm throwin in the white flag... i'm green here....
> 
> pics? anyone? help! lol :monkey:








They have a flat along the shaft at the end for the drive.


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## SawGarage (Jul 6, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> They have a flat along the shaft at the end for the drive.




so a notch in the end, and a flat??

J


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## nmurph (Jul 6, 2010)

this is what i have; 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Foredom-Flex-Sh...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf0396c6e

it comes with a foot control which allows much better control of the speed of the handpiece. i plan to add a quick disconnect and a right angle handpiece soon.


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## ronT2 (Jul 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Well, that day has finally come. The Dremel power head is fine, but the flex drive has died. Do I spend the money, although not a lot, to replace the flex drive, or go ahead and get the Foredome I want? Here's the one I want. MOTOR. HAND PIECE. Maybe I'd add this angled head later on. H.55A



I bought a kit off eBay that came with the hanging type SR motor w/floor switch, #44, #28 hand pieces and a bunch of other stuff. It works great but sometimes I wonder if the pedestal mount like you’re looking at might be better. It might be easier to move the motor around depending on what hand you’re grinding with and where your light is coming from. I use the #28 hand piece 90% of the time and would like to find a decent 90-degree attachment.


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## nmurph (Jul 6, 2010)

i much prefer the fine degree of control that the infinitely variable foot control gives. plus you hang it and it's not taking up space on the bench.


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## srcarr52 (Jul 6, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> I bought a kit off eBay that came with the hanging type SR motor w/floor switch, #44, #28 hand pieces and a bunch of other stuff. It works great but sometimes I wonder if the pedestal mount like you’re looking at might be better. It might be easier to move the motor around depending on what hand you’re grinding with and where your light is coming from. I use the #28 hand piece 90% of the time and would like to find a decent 90-degree attachment.



I bought my kit off E-bay for the SR reversible hanging motor the standard handpiece. Then bought a 55D on some other auction. Get the reversible motor, you can get burs for the reverse direction to keep you from jumping over edges. Also you can put tapered cartridge sanding rolls on backward to get into spots that you normally couldn't or to get more life out of them. Spinning them the right direction keeps them from exploding! 

I built a long arm out of 3/4" conduit so I can swing it over any position of my bench and then swing it back against the wall when not in use. Don't worry about light, you'll have the boom a ways off your right shoulder most of the time to get the right angle on the flex shaft.


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## ronT2 (Jul 6, 2010)

srcarr52 said:


> I bought my kit off E-bay for the SR reversible hanging motor the standard handpiece. Then bought a 55D on some other auction. Get the reversible motor, you can get burs for the reverse direction to keep you from jumping over edges. Also you can put tapered cartridge sanding rolls on backward to get into spots that you normally couldn't or to get more life out of them. Spinning them the right direction keeps them from exploding!
> 
> *I built a long arm out of 3/4" conduit so I can swing it over any position of my bench and then swing it back against the wall when not in use. Don't worry about light, you'll have the boom a ways off your right shoulder most of the time to get the right angle on the flex shaft.*




Thanks, that sounds like a great idea. Right now I just have it hanging from a shelf above the bench.


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## SawGarage (Aug 21, 2010)

*anyone else?*

have any MORE thoughts on the 90 deg ABILITY to reach the upper x-fers?

I'm a bit hesitant to spend the ~$400 on the CC piece...although, it is sexy.

j


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 21, 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dental-Lab-Hand...-Marathon-/140435637653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 21, 2010)

right now my only tool is my computer. i use it to find out about porting and i used it to find the fella that may be doing my port work for me. but eventually i hope to learn enough to be able to try it on my own some day. big thanks to everyone on the site for helping me take steps toward my goal!


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## timistall (Aug 21, 2010)

Anyone use a RotoZip with the flex attachment?


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## SawGarage (Aug 22, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Dental-Lab-Hand...-Marathon-/140435637653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0



AL...hmm. Looks familiar!! lol.

I'd presume your 'experienced' with that tool? Do you only use it for uppers? 

this is the unit that i'd need to make some simple 'mods' to the shank of the bit? (1/8" ???)

What type of bits would one use for this? (or what would you suggest for a 'template' to mod the reg bits to fit? 

Thanks...

 

Jay


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## Arrowhead (Aug 22, 2010)

When things get serious...







:hmm3grin2orange:


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 22, 2010)

Arrowhead said:


> When things get serious...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You do dentistry on the side Ed?

Now we know the secret to your wildthing!


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 22, 2010)

SawGarage said:


> AL...hmm. Looks familiar!! lol.
> 
> I'd presume your 'experienced' with that tool? Do you only use it for uppers?
> 
> ...



Yeah mate, it's the tool I use for the uppers. I don't use the straight piece much as the dremel is still working fine.

The bit's are a "RA" type 2.35mm.

I haven't chased any up as yet so have just modified my own.






I must get my butt in to gear and post a pic of the bits I modified as per my promise to Chevytown.


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## bonden (Aug 22, 2010)

Here is my latest addition in the grinding equipment I got,my father has retired as a dental technician and I have inherited all the grinding equipment he has used. I can not wait to begin new porting projects.
I also have a question how long do you let the muriatic acid work on the aluminum remaining in the cylinder, before using a q-tip to remove the aluminium residue
Sven-Erik.


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## SawGarage (Aug 22, 2010)

bonden said:


> Here is my latest addition in the grinding equipment I got,my father has retired as a dental technician and I have inherited all the grinding equipment he has used. I can not wait to begin new porting projects.
> I also have a question how long do you let the muriatic acid work on the aluminum remaining in the cylinder, before using a q-tip to remove the aluminium residue
> Sven-Erik.



Sven-Erik,

What in the WORLD did you dad do dentist work on?? Whales?? lol.

Just don't let the carbides chatter...they can chip/get ruined that way 

With the acid, start slow...Ron (RoncoINC) used to like to heat up the cyl in the toaster to 400deg F or so... the acid works quicker. Apply it till it stops bubbling. It's not going to really touch the NiSi in the Cylinder.

Jay


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## SawGarage (Aug 23, 2010)

Arrowhead said:


> When things get serious...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL!!!! I missed that...



AUSSIE1 said:


> You do dentistry on the side Ed?
> 
> Now we know the secret to your wildthing!




Only where there is no ADA (American Dental Assoc...) lol..

That's what Ed uses for those pesky carb screws that get corroded and strip out!

LOL


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## bonden (Aug 23, 2010)

SawGarage said:


> Sven-Erik,
> 
> What in the WORLD did you dad do dentist work on?? Whales?? lol.
> 
> ...




My father was not a dentist but tooth technician, he made false teeth and dentures for other dentists, Thees were made of porcelain gold and platinum, grinding equipment was, therefore, as it appears in the pictures.


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## srcarr52 (Aug 23, 2010)

bonden said:


> My father was not a dentist but tooth technician, he made false teeth and dentures for other dentists, Thees were made of porcelain gold and platinum, grinding equipment was, therefore, as it appears in the pictures.



I was going to say he must have been a lab tech, or a large animal dentist. Ok Wilber... say awww.


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## SawGarage (Aug 23, 2010)

bonden said:


> My father was not a dentist but tooth technician, he made false teeth and dentures for other dentists, Thees were made of porcelain gold and platinum, grinding equipment was, therefore, as it appears in the pictures.



Gotcha..makes more sense now!!



srcarr52 said:


> I was going to say he must have been a lab tech, or a large animal dentist. Ok Wilber... say awww.



those are some serious looking cutting wheels!!

J


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## bonden (Aug 23, 2010)

SawGarage said:


> Gotcha..makes more sense now!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They are really handy to use with the dental grinder ,it is an old grinding-motor but really power full.
The size they are can be seen clearer here.The shaft on the bits is about 3mm


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## srcarr52 (Aug 23, 2010)

I have some burs like that shown. The double cut carbides clog up with aluminum easy so you have to stay on top of them with a little WD40 to keep them cutting.

They are a the right size shaft to make into an RA (latch style) bur.


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## bonden (Aug 23, 2010)

srcarr52 said:


> I have some burs like that shown. The double cut carbides clog up with aluminum easy so you have to stay on top of them with a little WD40 to keep them cutting.
> 
> They are a the right size shaft to make into an RA (latch style) bur.





I do not have much trouble with burs clogging up, and if it builds up I run only the motor in reverse direction with the foot pedal and the aluminum easily comes off.


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## SawGarage (Aug 23, 2010)

Sven,

What control/motor do you have?

picture?

Jay


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## bonden (Aug 24, 2010)

This is my old grinder motor it`s an German motor by the name Kaltenbach&voigt
It is powerful and it doesn't slow down when grinding hard.





This is a dental tool i also use when porting, can anybody guess what it is for ? (the phone is there only for you to see the size of the tool


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## nmurph (Aug 24, 2010)

your into to that kinky stuff, aren't you.


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## bonden (Aug 24, 2010)

nmurph said:


> your into to that kinky stuff, aren't you.




it is not for fun and pleasure. nmurph.


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## srcarr52 (Aug 24, 2010)

bonden said:


> This is a dental tool i also use when porting, can anybody guess what it is for ? (the phone is there only for you to see the size of the tool



Looks like a thickness transfer tool. An old school method of transferring a thickness out into an area where you can measure it with standard measuring tools. 

Note you can also use the outside of the device in a similar manor.


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## bonden (Aug 24, 2010)

srcarr52 said:


> Looks like a thickness transfer tool. An old school method of transferring a thickness out into an area where you can measure it with standard measuring tools.
> 
> Note you can also use the outside of the device in a similar manor.



That was fast .
I use it to measure the ports in the cylinder when grinding just to make sure i don't grind through the walls of the cylinder.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 24, 2010)

I've been looking for something like that so that I won't see the light of day when finger porting. I thought about fabbing one meself, but I should stick with a production one.


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## mdavlee (Aug 24, 2010)

Chevy you might want to check with a welding supply for a pick gauge to check weld heights and undercut. It is a rectangular plate with a little arm and a scale on it. Here's the gauge I was talking about. I don't know if that is something you might want or not. 
http://www.drillspot.com/products/976133/mathey_dearman_d254_steel_rule_depth_gauge?s=1


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 24, 2010)

That's the ticket brother

I could probably modify it too by routing a slot on the arm so that's it's adjustable to measure the length of the finger port while still maintaining contact with the cylinder wall.

Gracias for the start bro. The stock 5100 I have now will sport true finger ports (much like the ones I've done) since I know I can go fairly deep 

I'm fired up to see how it performs without porting the intake, less duration. And that tool you posted will assure an effective finger port.


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## mdavlee (Aug 24, 2010)

Glad I could help you out.


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## SawGarage (Aug 25, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> That's the ticket brother
> 
> I could probably modify it too by routing a slot on the arm so that's it's adjustable to measure the length of the finger port while still maintaining contact with the cylinder wall.
> 
> ...




how about an outside caliper?? http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/c/a/caliper/source.html

I knew a guy on here who ported his 365 like that....:spam::monkey:

was that the exhaust side? your thoughts on performance over a full port-time, woods port, etc??

where did you get the ideas? I think it would work exceptionally as long as we could open up the intake and exhaust the required amount...thoughts??

J


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 25, 2010)

*I have treeslinger flapping his gums to thank*

For laughing at the idea of a router being used to port a cylinder when I first walked into the AS SALOON. That got me to break down the 510 without even knowing what I was doing. I'm glad he got me fired up:greenchainsaw: I have to thank compadres Bob, Metals, and Big JJ during them tough days.

SG, it started in Coos Bay by an old timer. To drop big wood fast. JJ, correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, I've seen many finger porting pictures over at RS and the whoop ass mind boggling work of Dennis. But it's not until I got the chance to write to Tom Fales Jr, (knowing more about small 2 stroke motors compared to Mr. 500™ motors) that the road was paved down and started my addiction to finger ports. He shared a picture of his work with me and all I can say is I was blown away. The detail, the craftsmanship, or is it the workmanship...it was unreal. I was steered in the correct direction quicklike as to how they shoud look and work along with the degree to angle them...and I've never looked back. I'm sure not every jug is a candidate nor a requirement. But if the 7900 cylinder is like the 5100, it's *ON*. BTW, when Tom shared his work with all the talk smacker's over there, the room fell silent with awe

I'm not claiming a fast one, other that a good worksaw that I build for myself and I'm learning more and more towards a fast one someday.

Meanwhile, I'll leave that joint up to Tom and the rest of them fast ones™ that are in his league because fast chains are required!

I can't speak as to what the performance gains are other that a maintained rpm in the cut and a fast spool up. It's a given they introduce more charge into the equation. And I have to imagine they help in scavenging. 

Here's hometown Frank running my first ported 5100 motor on pipe. This is where the fingers kick some culo big time I haven't tried the deeper fingers with the pipe yet. I'll try in the Fall sometime.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ieKTORoXXqY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ieKTORoXXqY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

SG, it's a challenge to port them, but they are rewarding. The only downfall I can see, is that if you don't clean up and smooth out the edges all along the length, it'll scratch the piston like any other port job, but the only deal here is that you are working with a lot more area on the piston to get fudged up 

*Tom's Poulan's off the limter sound of that motor still haunts me to this day. No decking was required That's what I call...FLOW*


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## BloodOnTheIce (Aug 25, 2010)

My 1997 GMC Sonoma is the only porting tool I need. I put the saw in the truck drive for a bit drop the saw off, I get a call some time later get in the tuck and go pick up my ported saw. So yes my truck is the only tool I need for porting. 
Besides a snowblower pull handle and yellow electric tape. 

:greenchainsaw:


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## SawGarage (Aug 25, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> For laughing at the idea of a router being used to port a cylinder when I first walked into the AS SALOON. That got me to break down the 510 without even knowing what I was doing. I'm glad he got me fired up:greenchainsaw: I have to thank compadres Bob, Metals, and Big JJ during them tough days.
> 
> SG, it started in Coos Bay by an old timer. To drop big wood fast. JJ, correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...



LOL...so you put the 7900 top end in the 5100 :spam: :monkey: lol...

pictures! i require some pics!!

finger ports, boost ports, etc have been in the high performance 2 stroke (dirtbike, quad, etc) world forever..

so, putting a chamfer on the edges of the finger is obvious... or else, the alum, and/or NiSi will cause issues... course, paying attention to the ring ends would be a concern too....

J


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 25, 2010)

*ON was it back in the day!!!!*

SG, you don't remember ON, the cable company


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## SawGarage (Aug 25, 2010)

lol...

It's ON, like Donkey Kong! 

I was joking...but didn't realize it would get taken outta context...lol.

I meant the 5100 was so fast it was like a 7900!! So was poking fun at it being a 5100 with a 7900 topend  lol.


on the router, I saw some pics a while ago...what was that used for?? (ya know...the memory thing...)


I thought the reason a closed port was better than an open port was the higher pressurized charge when the x-fer port opened...if that's the case, wouldn't the finger port negate that??

maybe I have more reading to do....


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## iowa (Feb 17, 2013)

I pulled up this old thread because I have a question. I'm in the middle of porting my 5105 and have it all done but the upper transfers. I was looking into buying a 90deg pencil grinder. However the dimensions of the head are huge. Well, it won't fit in my 45mm jug. 

So my question is this. So they make a 90 deg air tool small enough? Or is the cc specialty tool the best to get? If it is. I just need the 90deg cc tool and drive motor. What motor would work with it? What would I all need. I noticed they sell a kit on cc website for like $650. But I don't need the straight cutter as I have a pencil grinder already. Thanks!


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## ncfarmboy (Feb 17, 2013)

I read a thread somewhere about 90* tools they had just bought. Can't remember where but they were asking opinion on Mac tools 90* air tool kit. It looked like it would fit in small cyls. Was $200 if I hadn't bought a CC 182MC a couple of mo. ago I probably would have bought the Mac. Thought I had saved it but didn't. Went to Mac finally found it: 
Mac Tools Online Store - 90° Angle Head Pencil Die Grinder Kit
Shep


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## iowa (Feb 17, 2013)

I wish they had dimensions on their website. I got dimensions on a dotco 90deg grinder and the length of Tue head was 1.75". That's too long to fit into a 45 mm jug. 

This looks to be about the same size.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

iowa said:


> I pulled up this old thread because I have a question. I'm in the middle of porting my 5105 and have it all done but the upper transfers. I was looking into buying a 90deg pencil grinder. However the dimensions of the head are huge. Well, it won't fit in my 45mm jug.
> 
> So my question is this. So they make a 90 deg air tool small enough? Or is the cc specialty tool the best to get? If it is. I just need the 90deg cc tool and drive motor. What motor would work with it? What would I all need. I noticed they sell a kit on cc website for like $650. But I don't need the straight cutter as I have a pencil grinder already. Thanks!



You can use dental tools.......they don't last and really aren't worth the trouble though. CC is the only good option I've found.


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## dozerdan (Feb 17, 2013)

iowa said:


> I wish they had dimensions on their website. I got dimensions on a dotco 90deg grinder and the length of Tue head was 1.75". That's too long to fit into a 45 mm jug.
> 
> This looks to be about the same size.



I have a dotco. If you cut your burrs off as short as you can it will fit in a 50MM bore. My local garage has a snap on one and it is no smaller. I think the mac is the same size as the snap on, they are both imports. The dotco is built here and has no equal. The dotco will cost you double the price of the Mac.

Later
Dan


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## iowa (Feb 17, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> I have a dotco. If you cut your burrs off as short as you can it will fit in a 50MM bore. My local garage has a snap on one and it is no smaller. I think the mac is the same size as the snap on, they are both imports. The dotco is built here and has no equal. The dotco will cost you double the price of the Mac.
> 
> Later
> Dan



Yes. I had my eye on a dotco that's listed on eBay right now. I asked him for dimensions and he took pics with a ruler next to it. The head measures 1.75" long. That's about what 45 mm is. So this won't work. Guess I need to look for a cc specialty tool. 

If I bought just the tool from them. What would be the best motor to run it that wouldn't break the bank?


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## dozerdan (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> You can use dental tools.......they don't last and really aren't worth the trouble though. CC is the only good option I've found.



Not altogether true.

If you are talking about the air driven dental drills I will agree with you, they have no torque, turn about a million rpms, you need a super dry air supply and they wont take the constant side pressure you put on them. If you use the slower old belt driven dental drills they work great. My first right angled hand-piece lasted my over 5 years. I am sure that hand-piece has been in more cylinders then you have. I am still using my second one but I have a new one just in case is dies.

I also have a dental light above my work bench. It works great. I wish I had room for the dentist chain. I think it would be great for carb work. They have that nice little tray and an easy reach air hose. 

Do a search on feebay for emesco you will find the belt driven drills. Dental burrs are HSS and will work fine on the cylinders.

Later
Dan


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## dozerdan (Feb 17, 2013)

iowa said:


> Yes. I had my eye on a dotco that's listed on eBay right now. I asked him for dimensions and he took pics with a ruler next to it. The head measures 1.75" long. That's about what 45 mm is. So this won't work. Guess I need to look for a cc specialty tool.
> 
> If I bought just the tool from them. What would be the best motor to run it that wouldn't break the bank?




Here is a link to an emesco with the right angle hand-piece.

If you buy the lot I could use an extra foot pedal.

Emesco Hand Peices | eBay

Later
Dan


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> Here is a link to an emesco with the right angle hand-piece.
> 
> If you buy the lot I could use an extra foot pedal.
> 
> ...



Cool stuff Mr Henry. I stand corrected my friend.


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## TermiteBuffet (Feb 17, 2013)

So is it the 182 ,cc tool that is liked or the the tiny 300 ? Termite


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

TermiteBuffet said:


> So is it the 182 ,cc tool that is liked or the the tiny 300 ? Termite



I use the 182


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## LegDeLimber (Feb 18, 2013)

think i only saw one angle head in the bunch in that feebay listing.

Wonder how much it costs to rebuild those heads?
probably not cheap, as it'll be considered (and likely priced) as a medical item.

looks like they're fabricating shop vs a dentist office
so a lot heaver usage 
and under dryer, grittier conditions than when used in someones mouth.
-
Dozerdan:
Those motors bear an awfully strong resemblance to old sewing machine motors.
same era and likely same technology. 
(probably a universal [ brush type] motor, as it gives better torque) 
internally, the old foot controllers were generally just a wiper type rheostat 
( equivalent of a big, wirewound variable resistor ) No frequency related stuff to them.
and maybe adjustment on return spring tension in some fancier ones..

The amp draw is right in there with a sewing machine
So I'd take a look around for sewing pedals if you dont find what you want in the dental stuff.

Heck, you might take a look at the controler for that harbor freight flex drive grinder
But I don't think it's rated at enough current.

=
need to ask my dentist what went with all that old cord driven stuff of his dads.
probably all sold been by now though.


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## dozerdan (Feb 18, 2013)

LegDeLimber said:


> think i only saw one angle head in the bunch in that feebay listing.
> 
> Wonder how much it costs to rebuild those heads?
> probably not cheap, as it'll be considered (and likely priced) as a medical item.
> ...



I have never bothered to have the head repaired, you can pick them up rather cheap on feebay. I picked up one new one for 25.00. Just do a search for contra angle. Here is one the shows the rear of the hand piece. If it looks like this one on the rear, they will work.

Henry Schein 210A 210 A Contra Angle Dental Handpiece Hand Piece Used Condition | eBay

I am running a singer foot control on mine now. All that I had to do was change the power cord as the singer was way short. I use mine standing at a work bench and the singer had a short cord for use in the sitting position.

I asked the local retired dentist about his old drill. He told me he used it at home for a dremel tool. He passed away and his children had a yard sale. I inquired about the drill and the burs and they said they tossed that old thing in the dumpster. The dumpster was gone.

Later
Dan


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## dozerdan (Feb 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Cool stuff Mr Henry. I stand corrected my friend.



Stop calling me mister or I will call you the same name that I have for Terry. LOL

Did you make a carb tool yet?

Later
Dan


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## Jacob J. (Feb 18, 2013)

Hey Dan-

What size is the collet on those dental drills?


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## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> Stop calling me mister or I will call you the same name that I have for Terry. LOL
> 
> Did you make a carb tool yet?
> 
> ...



No Dan......I've not needed one since we talked. I will though......believe that.



Jacob J. said:


> Hey Dan-
> 
> What size is the collet on those dental drills?



1/32" on the ones I have like that.


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## srcarr52 (Feb 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> 1/32" on the ones I have like that.



I think you mean 3/32" and they are the latch style burrs. So you have to get 3/32" burs and cut them down and add the flat drive tang and the locating groove.


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## dozerdan (Feb 18, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Hey Dan-
> 
> What size is the collet on those dental drills?



The call them 3/32 but the shaft measures a little less at .090. There are the latch type bur.

You can also use the friction grip straight one that are long and they fit in the straight hand piece. They will reach down the transfer ports on most saws cylinders.

I picked up 2000 burs from feebay down under a few years ago for 50.00.

I also use the Moores discs for beveling the ports. Emery is the only ones that I use.

Later
Dan


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## dozerdan (Feb 18, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> The call them 3/32 but the shaft measures a little less at .090. There are the latch type bur.
> 
> You can also use the friction grip straight one that are long and they fit in the straight hand piece. They will reach down the transfer ports on most saws cylinders.
> 
> ...



Hey JJ

While I am in the sharing mood, here is another high tech tool that I use for polishing the exhaust ports.

Just use a piece of 1/4" round stock, slot it with your hacksaw, fold your emery cloth in half, chuck it up in your die grinder had have at it. Keep going finer with the cloth.View attachment 279918
View attachment 279919


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## mweba (Feb 18, 2013)

I get by with these. May need to upgrade someday though.




Untitled by mweba1, on Flickr


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## iowa (Feb 18, 2013)

```

```



mweba said:


> I get by with these. May need to upgrade someday though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's the smallest jug you've ported?


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## mweba (Feb 18, 2013)

iowa said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> What's the smallest jug you've ported?



With the right angle, 44.


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## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> I think you mean 3/32" and they are the latch style burrs. So you have to get 3/32" burs and cut them down and add the flat drive tang and the locating groove.



You're right and I'm a dumbass.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 18, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> Hey JJ
> 
> While I am in the sharing mood, here is another high tech tool that I use for polishing the exhaust ports.
> 
> Just use a piece of 1/4" round stock, slot it with your hacksaw, fold your emery cloth in half, chuck it up in your die grinder had have at it. Keep going finer with the cloth.



You shared that tip years ago Dan, and I actually made two of those, one with just some wood round stock and one from an old broken screwdriver. 



Mastermind said:


> You're right and I'm a dumbass.



Yeah, but you're the right kind of dumbass.


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## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> You shared that tip years ago Dan, and I actually made two of those, one with just some wood round stock and one from an old broken screwdriver.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but you're the right kind of dumbass.



I turned an old bolt shank down in the lathe so it would fit in my Foredom then sawed a split in it...... :msp_thumbup:


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## iowa (Feb 18, 2013)

Don't you guys polish the exhaust in the same direction or grain as the gasses are leaving? Using a flapper or emry on a shaft will interupt the flow of exhaust.


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## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2013)

iowa said:


> Don't you guys polish the exhaust in the same direction or grain as the gasses are leaving? Using a flapper or emry on a shaft will interupt the flow of exhaust.



My final finish is with steel wool......it's pretty slick.


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## bucknfeller (Feb 18, 2013)

I don't do any porting, but I have used a 1/4" roll pin with emory cloth in a die grinder for other things, they work great. Pre slotted and all :msp_thumbup:


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## dozerdan (Feb 19, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> So you have to get 3/32" burs and cut them down and add the flat drive tang and the locating groove.



I guess if you wanted to do all of that work you could make them, but why. They are readily available.

Later
Dan


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## Matt Hogden (May 12, 2019)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Greame I bought it off Ebay.
> I bought it mostly for the upper transfers as I still use the Dremel for everything else, but yeah, this Dremel is starting to rattle a little also.
> The "RA" bits for it are hard to source so I had to mod some myself.


Same here 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Huskybill (May 12, 2019)

I just purchased a 90 degree Dremel type 1/8” shank grinder but it doesn’t fit the smaller bores to move the transfer ports inside the cylinder it was $68 at Amazon.

I have a wen Dremel and a Dremel that take 1/8’’ shank tools. One has a adjustable rpm. I have a larger shaft driven die grinder with a drill chuck for larger porting jobs with 1/4” shank bits.


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## cus_deluxe (May 12, 2019)

6+ year old thread haha. but i have a harbor freight flex shaft grinder, some straight handpieces and an mc182. lots of chinese burrs


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## pioneerguy600 (May 12, 2019)

Lol, C&C are the King.


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