# Vallorbe Racing Cut System



## Sethro (Apr 2, 2008)

Any of you cats used it yet ? I see it's available in the states now.


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for the link John!

http://www.cutterschoice.com/cgi-bi...tegory_id=&find_keyword.x=34&find_keyword.y=8

Looks cool, can save 10% on fuel use........

Another linky link.....
http://www.cutterschoice.com/cgi-bin/store/cutters.cgi?show_details=1720&s=popup&cur=cad


----------



## Sethro (Apr 2, 2008)

:jawdrop:


----------



## PES+ (Apr 2, 2008)

"More resistance and sharper cutters"

:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Crofter (Apr 2, 2008)

I think that is a typo. It uses the goofy file but does not present the file as in square filing. They are supposed to be working on a new prototype that holds the file on a different angle. Here is a picture of the file in position in a cutter on the jig.

Edit, sorry that is out of focus but gives a bit more detail of the roller position and the angle it holds the file.


----------



## 24d (Apr 2, 2008)

I got the sq proto type in my hand right now. I think its the only one.


----------



## Sethro (Apr 2, 2008)

24d said:


> I got the sq proto type in my hand right now. I think its the only one.



So does it utilize a double bevel file?


----------



## 24d (Apr 2, 2008)

John Dolmar said:


> So does utilize a double bevel file?



Its a strange looking file with 4 sides but very crisp corners. The guide they sent me to test has one angle for the right and another for the left, so I can't make a chain that will cut. What they are looking for is input as to which angles will work best for us. I'll try to get some pictures and share as much infomation as I can. Any questions or input you have is more than welcome.

Its my understanding that this guide will be avalible HERE first

Later,


----------



## RiverRat2 (Apr 2, 2008)

John Dolmar said:


> Any of you cats used it yet ? I see it's available in the states now.



Seth do you use it for your everyday sharpening??????


----------



## Sethro (Apr 3, 2008)

RiverRat2 said:


> Seth do you use it for your everyday sharpening??????



Noew. Just a good old 7/32 round file.


----------



## Crofter (Apr 3, 2008)

It was discussed here at length a few years ago under "Atop racing cut" if you do a search. The roller system is smooth and the indexing is quick to move from cutter to cutter. all you have to do is hold your end of the file at the right height to keep the file corner on the tooth at the right spot. What 24D is talking about is a new prototype to do true square filed sharpening. It is proposed I think to have a model for hardwood and one for softwood and I think the prototype he has combines the two for a demonstration but cuts different angles one side to the other so is just a tease for 24D at this point. I am waiting for him to show us some pictures of the sharpened teeth to see what they look like. There are a few people trying to develop a good working guide that would allow a person to easily get good fairly quick results at square filing a chain since the cheapest grinder is around 900 bucks.


----------



## 24d (Apr 3, 2008)

Tease? Haha and you know they getting a good laff, I got this cool guide that will get a chain like a razor but cut in a circle lmao!

Frank, if I can't get enough information on my own, Im gonna head to Canada and get you and Brain involved in this joke too hahaha!

Later,


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Apr 3, 2008)

I got it in .325 but will wait for the "true square" guide in 3/8 !
It gives a fast cutting 21bp or RM chain, perfect for cutting and limbing with my 346xpg


----------



## B_Turner (Apr 3, 2008)

A factor that somewhat mitigates the initial expense over time with a grinder is that wheels are pretty cheap and last as long as many many files.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Apr 3, 2008)

B_Turner are there any used ones out on the "net" ??
or were can I search for them ,,,,
cant afford a new one with shipping and all that but a working used one might be ok ,,,


----------



## Uwharrie (Apr 3, 2008)

24d said:


> Its my understanding that this guide will be avalible HERE first
> 
> Later,



We have chains that have been filed using the new Atop Pro 3/8" Sharpener. We have done tests with several chains. The file used is the 2270-6 from Vallorbe. Also a 3/8" guide will be available using the 2260 Vallorbe file which will be for hardwood cutting for production. We have many things in the works reguarding chains and performance. 
24d is working with Atop to offer his opinions on the new product. Thanks to Larry for his input. 

More info later. Tony


----------



## B_Turner (Apr 3, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> B_Turner are there any used ones out on the "net" ??
> or were can I search for them ,,,,
> cant afford a new one with shipping and all that but a working used one might be ok ,,,



I am the wrong guy to ask about what's available on the net as I'm not very web savy.

Shipping these days is killer. And what grinders I've seen for sale have mostly been projects. 

Sometimes in the past when I've been at Madsens they have had used Silveys they have taken in on trade and fixed up and were for sale.


----------



## Crofter (Apr 4, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> B_Turner are there any used ones out on the "net" ??
> or were can I search for them ,,,,
> cant afford a new one with shipping and all that but a working used one might be ok ,,,



*Well 046 and I each picked up a used one; mine a couple of years ago and his just recently. They were Simmington 450 I think. No tags on mine. Similar to Silvey swing arm. 2 to 3 hundred dollars. As B Turner mentioned the price of a grinding wheel will do the work of several hundred dollars worth of files and a lot quicker!

I just received a few Save Edge files to try them out. They are a sponsor here now with the flashing Save Edge banner on Arboristsite header. Excellent service. I have not tried the files yet but they have nice crisp corners unlike the last few bunches I have* gotten from a different supplier.


----------



## 24d (Apr 9, 2008)

OK - I'v played with it for about a week now, I really like it. Its extremly simple to use (a caveman could do it) and it would be hard too damage it as well. If I had to compare it to another tool, it would be a speed square.

Questions?



I'll have some pictures in a few.


----------



## 24d (May 1, 2008)

*Pictures*

sorry took so long!

Later,


----------



## SWE#Kipp (May 1, 2008)

24D how does it work, do you get exact corners ??


----------



## 24d (May 1, 2008)

The corners are perfect like they are done with a machine, I want to send the guide to others so they can try it out but I can't get them to let me (yet) Crofter, Timberwolf and Cut 4 fun have seen the chain (cut4fun is testing it on another site) it's a neat trick and very simple to use.

Later,


----------



## 24d (May 1, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> 24D how does it work, do you get exact corners ??



By the way, do you still have a picture of the file from the end? I couldn't get it in focus from that angle.

Later,


----------



## 24d (May 5, 2008)

I talked to Goran today. Two modles will be offered one for Oregon, another for the rest of the chains with the Oregon coming out this month the other shortly there after. If you want to modify the Oregon guide to do both types of chain, it's no big deal, just let me know and I'll tell you how.

The angles will be inside side plate 30°, 10° forward slope on the outside side plate, 36° inside top plate, 32° outside top plate, from the best I can understand.

Later,


----------



## SWE#Kipp (May 5, 2008)

Here are the pics


----------



## 046 (May 5, 2008)

looked high and low for a used square grinder with no luck for almost a year. when this simington 450 popped up. I was all over it... couldn't send the paypal fast enough! 

paid $250 + $40 shipping.. one of the best pieces of gear I've ever scored!

with crofter's help, got the old simington 450 setup pretty slick...
had to shim the motor to grind left and right the exact same. 

learning curve was fairly steep, but once you figure how to set it up properly. it's really easy to use. can grind a chain usually in 2-3 minutes. 

been waiting for this square cut file guide for sometime. should be great in the field. 




Crofter said:


> *Well 046 and I each picked up a used one; mine a couple of years ago and his just recently. They were Simmington 450 I think. No tags on mine. Similar to Silvey swing arm. 2 to 3 hundred dollars. As B Turner mentioned the price of a grinding wheel will do the work of several hundred dollars worth of files and a lot quicker!
> 
> *


----------



## SWE#Kipp (May 6, 2008)

The Vallorbe file in the pictures is easier then the Pferd chisel-bit file to use no shatter or vibrations and gives me better results then with the pferd files I used earlier ,,,, (Only my opinion though) 
For you who hand file they are well worth a try !!!


----------



## RiverRat2 (May 6, 2008)

Crofter said:


> *Well 046 and I each picked up a used one; mine a couple of years ago and his just recently. They were Simmington 450 I think. No tags on mine. Similar to Silvey swing arm. 2 to 3 hundred dollars. As B Turner mentioned the price of a grinding wheel will do the work of several hundred dollars worth of files and a lot quicker!
> 
> I just received a few Save Edge files to try them out. They are a sponsor here now with the flashing Save Edge banner on Arboristsite header. Excellent service. I have not tried the files yet but they have nice crisp corners unlike the last few bunches I have* gotten from a different supplier.



I have been using save edge round files for the last two years for my touch up,,, if I catch it in time,,,, If I really bust one up (chain that is) and I'm in a hurry,,,, I just grab a back up saw and grind later,,,,, but if Im touching up I use the Save Edge!!!! I've had good luck with them!!!!

I bought a chiselbit file just havent used it yet,,,, :monkey:

Crofter PM sent!!!!


----------



## Crofter (May 7, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> The Vallorbe file in the pictures is easier then the Pferd chisel-bit file to use no shatter or vibrations and gives me better results then with the pferd files I used earlier ,,,, (Only my opinion though)
> For you who hand file they are well worth a try !!!



Those half thickness files should make it a lot more practical to square file a .325 chain also. I have not tried them but they look like they have nice crisp corners.
Anyone know who is a dealer here for that file?


----------



## 24d (May 7, 2008)

My first guess Frank I do have a file I'v been meaning to send you to try, I just keep forgetting, I'll try to get it out tomarrow.

Later,


----------



## Sprig (May 7, 2008)

Silly question but what controls your top plate angle or do you just follow the angle mark? (I tend to wander so was wonderin') :monkey:



Serge


----------



## Crofter (May 7, 2008)

Sprig, the observed top view angle is described as outside top plate angle and on square ground chain is the result of the combination of, file back angle, file down angle and rotation of the file. Changing any one of the three will affect the others. I would say withing reason it is the least critical. If you went from 10 Deg. forward lean of the side cutter (hook) to say only 5 degrees, the observed outside top plate angle would sweep back more and the internal cutting angle of the top plate would get slightly blunter. Much easier to visualize with a file and chain in front of you.


----------



## 24d (May 7, 2008)

Sprig said:


> Silly question but what controls your top plate angle or do you just follow the angle mark? (I tend to wander so was wonderin') :monkey:
> 
> 
> 
> Serge



If you are asking on this particular guide, if you place the file square on the roller and line up the corner of the file with the corner of the tooth, all angles just fall into place. As a side note, the file will naturally square itself on the roller and once you have made one pass with the corners lined up they seem to want to stay in that groove as well.

Later,


----------



## Bruce Hopf (May 30, 2008)

John Dolmar said:


> Any of you cats used it yet ? I see it's available in the states now.


There has been a Cutter's Choice store in London Ontario for years. At one time it was called Zip Penn. My Father, Uncle, and Great Uncle used the Standard Chipper chains for as long as I can remember, and I have bought them myself. Now I can't buy this type of chain. I can only get Chisel Chain, Semi Chisel Chain, and Skip Tooth Chain. I have a couple of Semi Chisel, and 1Chisel Chain. Can someone tell me the difference of the 3 types of chains?
I have a Jolly chain saw chain grinding machine, with a 1/4" flat grinding wheel for depth gauges, and I have a grinding wheel for sharpening 3/8 and .404 chain saw chains, that I got from cutters choice a few years ago. Something like the Oregon chain saw chain grinding machine. 
I have read about Square Grinding, of Filing on the Razor Sharp Chain Forum, and one of the guys posted a picture of a tooth that was square ground. It looked real neat, and I thought I would like to give it a try. Another guy posted this forum for me. 
OK now for some questions. Will I able to preform square sharpening these chains that I already have? Will I be able to preform this task. with my grinding machine? If I'm able to do square grinding with my machine, what degrees do I need to set my power to? What type of wheel will I have to get, or will I be able to use the grinding wheels I already have? 
Presently I sharpen my chains at a 30degree angle, and my power head is set at 60 degree tilt. Last question. Is this type of sharpening recommended for cutting Soft Maple(Sugar Maple), and Ash? 
As I have told the other guys on the forums that I have already visited, that I am new to this website, and so far I have found it very interesting, and I have learned a great deal of information, that I never Seen, or heard of. Very informative. 
Your help and advise would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to learning from you.
Thanks Bruce.


----------



## 24d (May 30, 2008)

Click HERE and that will get you started + you can do a search on GOOFY and SQUARE that should keep you busy for days (or years in my case) also try to ask just one question per post, reason for that is one person might not know all the answers and would be hesitant to answer just the one they know.

Later,

PS WELCOME!


----------



## ents (May 31, 2008)

I'm using a roller guide on my 95vp chain on a 353. I touch up these chain every day (very dirty environment). I've noticed that the rollers are starting to get groves in them from where the file rides. Curious as to whether the sq. grnd. roller guide is or will suffer the same. Maybe it wont since the file is flat and wider.

These roller guides (ones I'm using now) are wonderful. Free hand filing is out of the ques. for me, gotta have a guide. I'd love to try some sq. grnd. in my environment. Hope the price comes down on that guide cause then I'm on it like the proverbial fly on ++++.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (May 31, 2008)

The Rollers on the Atop gudie are made of a better quality, I have used one under three years (the .325) and have only changed the rollers once.


----------



## 24d (Jun 17, 2008)

Guide will be released Oct 2008


----------



## StihlBoy440 (Oct 20, 2008)

Its October, has this new setup came out to the public yet, I am dying to buy one and try it out!


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Oct 21, 2008)

When I talked to Göran on the phone a couple of weeks ago they were being manufactured but I don't know if they are done yet !!
I can check it out if you want ,,,,,

/Kristoffer


----------



## StihlBoy440 (Oct 21, 2008)

Another anxious person, please let us know!


----------



## Edge & Engine (Oct 21, 2008)

Goran told me he was determined to keep his promise...It's still October I guess


----------



## 046 (Oct 21, 2008)

it's been almost for quite some time.... if and when it shows up... I'll believe it


----------



## husky394 (Oct 21, 2008)

I'd be interested in seeing how/if they work. I can't square file worth a darn.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Oct 22, 2008)

Sounds like ATOP has the units mfg'd, they're just finishing up instructions, packaging, etc.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Oct 22, 2008)

Edge & Engine said:


> Sounds like ATOP has the units mfg'd, they're just finishing up instructions, packaging, etc.



That's correct 
I just got of the phone with Göran and 500 units has left the "cnc" machine what remain is paint and assembly of the units and then what Edge & Engine wrote 
So quoting Göran "with out promissing to much they will be available this year"


//Kristoffer


----------



## Freakingstang (Oct 22, 2008)

All the time you cats waited on this thing to come to the market......you all could have learned to file with the diamond


----------



## 046 (Oct 22, 2008)

I did learn how to file square chains with a diamond file. sharp too!
problem was ... my patience is just not there to spend 15+ min per chain. 

ditched square chains .... that is until I got lucky and scored a simington 450 square grinder. now it's deluxe sharp square chains for me ALL the time opcorn: 



Freakingstang said:


> All the time you cats waited on this thing to come to the market......you all could have learned to file with the diamond


----------



## super3 (Oct 22, 2008)

Freakingstang said:


> All the time you cats waited on this thing to come to the market......you all could have learned to file with the diamond




Where do you get the diamond file?


----------



## 046 (Oct 22, 2008)

got lucky and found, new old stock genuine Stihl triangle and flat w/bevel edges files. 



super3 said:


> Where do you get the diamond file?


----------



## onebad450r (Oct 29, 2008)

http://www.cutterschoice.com/cgi-bin/store/cutters.cgi?show_details=1720&s=popup&cur=usd

Is this the product that was be tested by 24d? I have been waiting for this for a while. I have been playing around with square filing for about a year now. I can get them fairly sharp, but it is to time consuming for a work chain. Any info would be greatly apreciated....Thanks


----------



## Crofter (Oct 30, 2008)

onebad450r said:


> http://www.cutterschoice.com/cgi-bin/store/cutters.cgi?show_details=1720&s=popup&cur=usd
> 
> Is this the product that was be tested by 24d? I have been waiting for this for a while. I have been playing around with square filing for about a year now. I can get them fairly sharp, but it is to time consuming for a work chain. Any info would be greatly apreciated....Thanks



I think that is the jig to use a goofy (round edge flat) file on either chisel or semi chisel chain. I have that jig and was not impressed as it was nowhere near a square filed chain performance. The new one that is about to be released is a modification of that original jig that places the roller guides at a different angle and location. I have one of those that I tried and it appears to do a genuine square filed profile on 3/8 chisel chain but does (or did) use a one sided Vallorbe flat file that is a modification of the standard double bevel file. It is a well made file. I believe the double file can also be used with it but have not tried it to see if that would change the cutter angles appreciably. I expect the modification to the indexing mechanism that 24D came up with will make it workable on other brands of chain instead of only with Oregon. That was a bit of an issue as the top of the drive links where the jig indexes are not identical on all chains. I think it will be a good device to help imprint the visuals that are important to making good consistent square filed chains. I found chatter a bit of an issue but I am used to filing on a dead solid chain vise. In any case you will have to adjust your chain very tight while you file. Of course that really is a good thing to do even with round filed chain but there is even more up force on square cutters and you are filing them outside in. It holds the proper file angles and then you only have to concentrate on placing the file corner at the right spot on the tooth corner.

My initial experience with it is that it will give cutter angles that are a fair bit more aggressive than the factory grind which is what almost every user would want anyway.


----------



## onebad450r (Oct 30, 2008)

Crofter,

Thanks for the information. I guess I will have to keep waiting. I have been on here for awhile and thought that I might of missed something.

Thanks alot


----------



## Darton2 (Nov 10, 2008)

This fancy device available yet?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Nov 10, 2008)

Darton2 said:


> This fancy device available yet?



No.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 21, 2008)

Just had a go with the guide, and all I can say for now is that if you are just a bit used to hand filing this will be a "walk in the park" to use, I just aim for the "lead" corner on the first two or three strokes and then the files way through the cutter is set and then you just file until the cutter is sharp 
I believe many of you who have "dreamed" about square ground now (soon) have good option that doesn't cost a fortune new.

I will show some pictures tonight (for me) when i get home from work :camera: 

//Kipp


----------



## 046 (Nov 21, 2008)

hmmmm... you mean this guide might actually get delivered to actual folks....


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 21, 2008)

Here is a picture of the guide and the first cutter I filed 

View attachment 82378


View attachment 82379


more pics if you like just ask 

It cuts very smooth and fast,I tried some bore cutting and it just eats wood a very pleasant experience !!

//All the best Kipp


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 21, 2008)

Nice results. Can you give is right-angle shots of the side cutter and top plate?


----------



## scotclayshooter (Nov 21, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Sure looks good!
> 
> I want one.



+1


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 21, 2008)

here are the extra pics asked for 

View attachment 82380


View attachment 82381


----------



## 046 (Nov 21, 2008)

so who's selling in US and how much?

any chance we can put together a group buy? 
mfg would do a one time deal for AS regulars at super low cost. 

ship to one member, who collects funds, then ships out to everyone in US/Canada.
who ever does the distribution gets one unit paid for by everyone receiving.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 21, 2008)

Will the guide work with Stihl RSC, and RSLK?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Nov 21, 2008)

046 said:


> so who's selling in US and how much?
> 
> any chance we can put together a group buy?
> mfg would do a one time deal for AS regulars at super low cost.
> ...


They are not in the US - yet.


They should be available from us.


----------



## scotclayshooter (Nov 22, 2008)

046 said:


> so who's selling in US and how much?
> 
> any chance we can put together a group buy?
> mfg would do a one time deal for AS regulars at super low cost.
> ...



Dont forget the UK!


----------



## Crofter (Nov 22, 2008)

046 said:


> so who's selling in US and how much?
> 
> any chance we can put together a group buy?
> mfg would do a one time deal for AS regulars at super low cost.
> ...



http://www.amickssuperstore.net/ A sponsor here I think! Havent heard recently but think he was supposed to be the distributor.
I dont know whether we really want to get into another flap like the gang bang GB bars at dealer cost, Lol!


----------



## B_Turner (Nov 22, 2008)

Initial costs will be lower than a grinder, but files will end up being pretty expensive in the long run as compared to finding a used square grinder if used daily.

One grinder wheel does many sharpenings, and only costs 14 - 30 bucks.

I do hope this jig works out well, though, so more folks can enjoy square chain.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 22, 2008)

B_Turner said:


> Initial costs will be lower than a grinder, but files will end up being pretty expensive in the long run as compared to finding a used square grinder if used daily.
> 
> One grinder wheel does many sharpenings, and only costs 14 - 30 bucks.
> 
> I do hope this jig works out well, though, so more folks can enjoy square chain.



I would love to get a grinder, but new it's a bit expensive for me and I don't know if they would work here in Sweden with our electric system 220v !?

The guide works well though so I will settle with that, and super smooth cutting now has a new meaning to me 

I did put some 20"-32" birch trees on the ground today and the b/c is just melting through the trees it's just plain fun to cut with this setup ,,,,,


----------



## Edge & Engine (Nov 22, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> I would love to get a grinder, but new it's a bit expensive for me and I don't know if they would work here in Sweden with our electric system 220v !?
> 
> The guide works well though so I will settle with that, and super smooth cutting now has a new meaning to me
> 
> I did put some 20"-32" birch trees on the ground today and the b/c is just melting through the trees it's just plain fun to cut with this setup ,,,,,



Fun is the right word. When I tried the chain Goran sent me, I just had to smile. Paired with a Dolmar 7900, it went through dry cherry like a song.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 22, 2008)

Edge & Engine said:


> Fun is the right word. When I tried the chain Goran sent me, I just had to smile. Paired with a Dolmar 7900, it went through dry cherry like a song.



Yep it's wicked compared to round filed


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 25, 2008)

Been doing some more cutting with the chain and it just keeps amazing me, the bore cutting is like sticking a hot knife through butter 
For you who have not tried sharp Squareground do it ,,,,,,

//Kipp


----------



## Nailgunner (Nov 29, 2008)

This looks very interesting indeed, i may have to give it a shot. The jig looks easy enough to make out of a few lumps of odd aluminium I have lying about... Presumably it only works for full chisel chain.

If what's said here is to be believed there's quite a performance advantage in squire filing. This is always a good thing


----------



## 24d (Nov 30, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> Will the guide work with Stihl RSC, and RSLK?



The proto type I had wouldn't without a slight mod (it would only do Oregon), but I think they have that worked out and it should sharpen any 3/8 chain.

Later,

PS It was a very simple mod to get it to do both so even if it doesn't come ready to do both, you can fix it no problem.


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 30, 2008)

24d said:


> The proto type I had wouldn't without a slight mod (it would only do Oregon), but I think they have that worked out and it should sharpen any 3/8 chain.
> 
> Later,
> 
> PS It was a very simple mod to get it to do both so even if it doesn't come ready to do both, you can fix it no problem.



Thanks! Do you know if they are close to getting them to the US?


----------



## 24d (Nov 30, 2008)

On Nov 22 he told me 2 weeks max, there was an amazing amount of R+D on this and I'm sure it will be worth the wait. As far as I know, SWE#Kipp is the only consumer in the world with the final draft in his hands, tell us more SWE#Kipp we are all ears lol!

Later,


----------



## 046 (Nov 30, 2008)

well it's more of the I'll believe it... when I see it

let's hurry up and wait...


----------



## brncreeper (Nov 30, 2008)

This thread sucks, someone post some ordering information already.


----------



## 24d (Nov 30, 2008)

Today =

Hi Larry, 

Thank you for your mail, 
We have components for making the 500 units batch. The only missing item is the final proofreading of the instruction and printing. Plus printing of the 
"back" page of the packaging. 

Function check by the "market " was made by Kristoffer Björklund who I 
believe you see on some of the forums. He was very pleased If I refer to his 
report. We are working with two set of rollers "Production" and "Racing". Both set up give very good cutting, hard to find difference in between them. So its more of a choice for the customers themselves. 

We are so close to the "finish line" and there are just some small items 
to be made.(instruction,etc) This is very easy to make, I would have been 
more concerned if we wouldn't have been able go get the basic function of the tool made. Now we just having documentation things to be made witch is just standard production. 


Rgds 

Göran C


----------



## Tzed250 (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks Larry!!


----------



## breymeyerfam (Nov 30, 2008)

whats it going to cost?


----------



## csx7006 (Nov 30, 2008)

046 said:


> let's hurry up and wait...



heard that phrase in my 2 years in my service than ill ever hear as a civilian


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 30, 2008)

I can asure you all that it is a very nice Guide to use and the chains are a pleasure to run and if there are questions you have about it's functionality plz ask and I will try to answer you as best as I can 

/Kristoffer


----------



## Crofter (Nov 30, 2008)

breymeyerfam said:


> whats it going to cost?



Dont know about these latest models but the older one to use the goofy type file had all the same components (with the rollers set in a different position) and it sold for close to 100$. I paid 99.95$ Canadian on special, about 3 years ago. I cant see them being less.


----------



## 24d (Nov 30, 2008)

breymeyerfam said:


> whats it going to cost?



this guy  phone (716) 595-3206 and this guy (Tony)  phone (336)-672-1196 are both sponsors here and intend to offer the guide, give them a ring and find out more about pricing ect and get your name on the list if you want one.

Later,


----------



## Edge & Engine (Nov 30, 2008)

Crofter said:


> Dont know about these latest models but the older one to use the goofy type file had all the same components (with the rollers set in a different position) and it sold for close to 100$. I paid 99.95$ Canadian on special, about 3 years ago. I cant see them being less.



We don't have final specifics on price but you're right, it won't be less than $100.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Nov 30, 2008)

It's well crafted tool and hand assembled so it will cost some, but for the guys who can't justify a grinder it will be well worth it in my opinion.

And it's sturdy so you don't need to "baby" it, you can have with you in the brush in your back pack or toolbox and all parts on it can be changed if broken or worn out 

/Kristoffer


----------



## cdog (Nov 30, 2008)

Is it possible to pre-order, or send a down payment to ensure getting one?
Thanks,
Cdog.


----------



## 24d (Nov 30, 2008)

cdog said:


> Is it possible to pre-order, or send a down payment to ensure getting one?
> Thanks,
> Cdog.



I'd be calling those numbers in post 86 and finding out. 

Later,


----------



## Edge & Engine (Nov 30, 2008)

cdog said:


> Is it possible to pre-order, or send a down payment to ensure getting one?
> Thanks,
> Cdog.



We're going to try and have it for pre-order as soon as we have enough solid info. (price, availability dates, etc).


----------



## cdog (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks, I'll be watching for an update!
Cdog.


----------



## 24d (Dec 2, 2008)

Like I'v said before, 15% faster, less fuel, easier on your saw in every way, we all need to find a way to learn to sq file. If nothing else, this is the cheapest and easiest lesson you're ever likely to find and yes I'm sure it can take the abuse of a service truck tool box, its simple, tuff and easy to use.

Later,


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 10, 2008)

Some more photos on the guide and some new rollers I have been trying 
It cuts a bit faster with the new larger rollers.
About the staying sharp ability I have not had the time to test that, got fever and a pounding head at the moment so just some cookie cutting behind the shed ,,,,






















//Kristoffer


----------



## 24d (Dec 10, 2008)

agin if you want one, get up with Tony or this guy


----------



## T Berry (Dec 10, 2008)

will this tool index half skip?


----------



## Crofter (Dec 10, 2008)

T Berry said:


> will this tool index half skip?



I would say not. The loop handle that comes in from the side fits behind the second cutter back from the one you file so the different space between teeth would throw you off station.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 10, 2008)

Crofter said:


> I would say not. The loop handle that comes in from the side fits behind the second cutter back from the one you file so the different space between teeth would throw you off station.



Sounds correct


----------



## pecor (Dec 15, 2008)

So whats the word are they out yet. Are orders being taken??


----------



## Edge & Engine (Dec 15, 2008)

pecor said:


> So whats the word are they out yet. Are orders being taken??



Not yet. Still waiting for an update from ATOP.


----------



## super3 (Dec 26, 2008)

pecor said:


> So whats the word are they out yet. Are orders being taken??





Jeeeeeez......This is just about as bad as those preveiws of a really great movie that doesn't open for another 6-9 months!


----------



## woodyman (Dec 27, 2008)

super3 said:


> Jeeeeeez......This is just about as bad as those preveiws of a really great movie that doesn't open for another 6-9 months!


 :agree2: Just about as bad as getting a wrapped christmas present today for next year and knowing its a new 372XP but you can't open it for another year.


----------



## 046 (Dec 27, 2008)

yup.. it's been almost ready for quite sometime..

but this time it's really almost ready  



super3 said:


> Jeeeeeez......This is just about as bad as those preveiws of a really great movie that doesn't open for another 6-9 months!


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 27, 2008)

Yes it is


----------



## scotclayshooter (Dec 27, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> Yes it is



Lets see what smug git has one already lol


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 27, 2008)

Was not my intention to sound sarcastic, I talked to Goran a couple of days before Christmas and he sad it was not much left to do before releasing them,, I'm just a bit excited


----------



## Edge & Engine (Dec 27, 2008)

It will be another month...or so.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 27, 2008)

Edge & Engine said:


> It will be another month...or so.



Yes it will but that is not allot of time in the "time schedule" of making a new product !


----------



## super3 (Dec 27, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> Yes it will but that is not allot of time in the "time schedule" of making a new product !




You are so right there.

But DAMM we are gettin anxious! 

Come on Mom, take us to the toy store allready!!!!!!!


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 28, 2008)

super3 said:


> You are so right there.
> 
> But DAMM we are gettin anxious!
> 
> Come on Mom, take us to the toy store allready!!!!!!!



I can understand that and I don't think you will be getting disappointed when you can get one 

hang in there


----------



## grandpatractor (Dec 28, 2008)

csx7006 said:


> heard that phrase in my 2 years in my service than ill ever hear as a civilian



Yup I heard that alot too!!!
Has helped me alot later in life.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 28, 2008)

scotclayshooter said:


> Lets see what smug git has one already lol



What's a git ??
nothing good i suppose


----------



## scotclayshooter (Dec 28, 2008)

SWE#Kipp said:


> What's a git ??
> nothing good i suppose



Nothing bad just joking with you! 
Just someone well pleased with themselves.
Weak pound is making all this stuff a lot more expensive though! 

How did the chain with the other angles work out?


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Dec 28, 2008)

It was faster but I have not made any timed cuts with it.
gonna do some timed cuts if I can get a helper


----------



## 24d (Jan 8, 2009)

Goran said:


> Hi Larry,
> 
> We have all set for sending samples to the US and you despite from one thing.
> 
> ...



Hmmmmmmm good luck with that!


----------



## Edge & Engine (Jan 8, 2009)

Goran said:


> Some fine tuning on the instruction mainly to check the text from product liablity point of view. The layers in the US scare us. We do this to avoid any trouble of the future that eventually can cost a lot of money.




Goran is paranoid of US lawyers....and I don't blame him


----------



## Darton2 (Jan 9, 2009)

Oh dont worry about it, no lawyers will be using it anyway. lol.

I gotta get one of these things...........


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 9, 2009)

Here is my 346xpg with a 16" b/c 73LP in some frozen spruce !? ,,
Filed with the "working rollers" on the Guide and a new double bevel file from Vallorbe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wonB_bZdXE&feature=channel


----------



## Darton2 (Jan 9, 2009)

Sure ...... Rub it in.....


----------



## super3 (Jan 9, 2009)

SWE#Kipp said:


> It was faster but I have not made any timed cuts with it.
> gonna do some timed cuts if I can get a helper




I'll help ya but you'll have to pick me up.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 9, 2009)

super3 said:


> I'll help ya but you'll have to pick me up.



Hahaha


----------



## Chopwood (Jan 9, 2009)

For god's sake people! As long as some of you have been sitting around waiting for this thing, just go buy some damn files and learn! It's not hard at all, really, to square file.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Jan 9, 2009)

Bone stock 7900 with approx. 20 minutes on it, 20" bar running chain filed with ATOP Racing Cut's filing jig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VpmCcW4efI&feature=channel_page


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 9, 2009)

Looks good


----------



## super3 (Jan 9, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> For god's sake people! As long as some of you have been sitting around waiting for this thing, just go buy some damn files and learn! It's not hard at all, really, to square file.




I got some files...I am learnin....What's wrong with trying out something new?


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 10, 2009)

I also had some files before I got the guide and could make a decent/good square chain, but with the guide it's so easy and quick that I think that any person able to file with a regular file guide (round) or freehand can make a good square filed chain !


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 10, 2009)

I'll probably pick one up just to try out. I have one bar and one chain set up for the 9 pin rim for my 372. Would be nice to have that one loop of chain square chisel for informal GTG chest thumping... 

Ian


----------



## pecor (Feb 22, 2009)

Well I Think They should give us all a free one For making us wait. opcorn:


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 22, 2009)

*I am afraid of the price tag*

I have heard they are going to be close to 2 bills.. For that kind of money a man can practice quite bit.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 22, 2009)

As long as it's two 10 dollar bills, count me in... not interested in square enough to spend 10x or even 3x that.

Ian


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 23, 2009)

In all seriousness, what *is* the max you guys would pay for this? At what point would you consider it "not worth it?" Keep in mind that this is a highly engineered, quality product. You can hardly expect to pay a small amount for this until the Chinese come out with their copy.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 23, 2009)

No more than $40 for me. It would be a curiosity, a toy. While there may be a lot of brain behind it, from the pictures I've seen the actual construction is fairly simple and the unit itself shouldn't be expensive to make, especially if they're ordering thousands for marketing. Now if they're contracting 200 units done to see how they go over, that would drive the individual price up.

If they're $200, I'd like to see one get passed around to the trusted veterans here and I'd be happy to send $10 to the owner and pay to ship it to the next person after playing with it for a week.

Ian


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'll go $50, I have a dull square chain now that is fixin' to get rounded.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 23, 2009)

Then I guess you guys won't be getting one 
From what I've heard from Goran, the price will be quite a bit more than that. (Less than 2 bills, though).

I'm hoping to send some out to AS members (Perhaps to trusted members like Ian ) for testing once we get samples in.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 23, 2009)

Just gotta be careful that it doesn't get put in the same shed that the infamous high dollar Leveraxe did. It's still missing.  

Ian

P.S. If you want to send some out for "official" AS testing, count me out. I wouldn't make a good tester. Send them to someone that cuts with square for a living so you get better feedback.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 23, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> P.S. If you want to send some out for "official" AS testing, count me out. I wouldn't make a good tester. Send them to someone that cuts with square for a living so you get better feedback.



Yes, but we also want to get it into the hands of people that are used to running only round ground chain (I don't know what you normally use).


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 23, 2009)

Ah... I understand. I usually run Bailey's 30RC. .375 Round Chisel. 

Didn't I read somewhere here that you have to run a certain kind of chain or the indexing won't work? Without going back and reading the whole thread again, seems like it was a certain brand and tooth spacing.. IE works on full comp, won't work on skip or semi-skip.

Who knows, once I use it, I may buy one and convert all my RC chains.. LOL

I know of 2 other AS members within easy driving distance... maybe Dustytools and Stipes can come over and we can have a "freshly ground square" vs "Vallorbe'd square" vs "round chisel" comparison. Someone would have to volunteer to loan me a loop of freshly sharpened square though. Take that to any shop around here for sharpening and you would get RC back. 

Ian


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 23, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Ah... I understand. I usually run Bailey's 30RC. .375 Round Chisel.
> 
> Didn't I read somewhere here that you have to run a certain kind of chain or the indexing won't work? Without going back and reading the whole thread again, seems like it was a certain brand and tooth spacing.. IE works on full comp, won't work on skip or semi-skip.
> 
> ...



I think it only works on full comp chain.


----------



## CentaurG2 (Feb 23, 2009)

You can spend a lot of money on stones and jigs to properly sharpen a pocket knife or a chisel. Quality/precision tools cost money. Properly filed round chains cut pretty good and for me at least, can be done quickly, easily and cheaply. I would like to learn to file square so the idea of a quality jig really interest me but I can see costs associated with the jigs and files being a big turn off to other cutters.


----------



## super3 (Feb 23, 2009)

Is this thing getting any closer to a release date?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 23, 2009)

super3 said:


> Is this thing getting any closer to a release date?



Getting closer, yes. No dates yet, though.


----------



## 24d (Feb 23, 2009)

It's already been around, some of the best names in sq filing have had it in their hands and give'n input on the final design. It is not really designed for a pro filer to use however some may enjoy the simplicity of it, but it is so quick and easy, any monkey on a service truck can pick it up and in very few tries be sq filing with amazing results. 

No it doesn't do skip and it is my understanding that it now has two settings, one for Oregon chain and another for all others, which was the main problem I saw in the first design, it was not much of a problem and I had it solved on the one they sent me in only a few minuets at the machine shop.

Later,


PS Chain angles = inside side plate 30°, 10° forward slope on the outside side plate, 34° inside top plate, 32° outside top plate, is the goal and it is my understanding that he is offering other rollers for a faster cut


----------



## parrisw (Feb 23, 2009)

24d said:


> It's already been around, some of the best names in sq filing have had it in their hands and give'n input on the final design. It is not really designed for a pro filer to use however some may enjoy the simplicity of it, but it is so quick and easy, any monkey on a service truck can pick it up and in very few tries be sq filing with amazing results.
> 
> No it doesn't do skip and it is my understanding that it now has two settings, one for Oregon chain and another for all others, which was the main problem I saw in the first design, it was not much of a problem and I had it solved on the one they sent me in only a few minuets at the machine shop.
> 
> ...



Wont do skip tooth chain??? That sucks.


----------



## Lugnutz (Mar 5, 2009)

*Is it here yet????*

Surely there s a way to modify it to work with skip..or bill...or travis for that mattter.

Really might be interested if it worked for a skip. Perhaps I shall get one to see about modifying on my slow days at work?


----------



## Crofter (Mar 6, 2009)

Lugnutz said:


> Surely there s a way to modify it to work with skip..or bill...or travis for that mattter.
> 
> Really might be interested if it worked for a skip. Perhaps I shall get one to see about modifying on my slow days at work?



The indexing slide comes in behind the second and third tooth behind the one you file on so spacing seems critical. I think it would be possible to construct a tongue style stop like what is used on Granberg or Stihl filing jigs that would fit solely behind the tooth you work on so cutter spacing then would not matter.

Basically what it does is lock in the file angles and rotation and all you have to do by eye then, is place the corner of the file at the corner of the tooth which is the easiest part of square filing. If your bar groove is worn you will likely want to rig up some type of clamp that stabilizes the chain to the bar to prevent chatter as you are filing into the cutter not inside out like round filing. 24D could fill you in on what he devised for this.


----------



## 046 (Mar 6, 2009)

ahh... so it's technical issues, holding this project back



24d said:


> No it doesn't do skip and it is my understanding that it now has two settings, one for Oregon chain and another for all others, which was the main problem I saw in the first design, it was not much of a problem and I had it solved on the one they sent me in only a few minuets at the machine shop.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 6, 2009)

046 said:


> ahh... so it's technical issues, holding this project back



No. The jigs themselves are all manufactured and ready to go. It's documentation and legality stuff that is holding things up.


----------



## wanab (Mar 6, 2009)

parrisw said:


> Wont do skip tooth chain??? That sucks.




speed cutting and race cutting with skip???


----------



## funky sawman (Mar 6, 2009)

I want to try one


----------



## 24d (Mar 6, 2009)

Today



> Hi Larry,
> 
> Have a operators manual that are proven and can be published. We print within some few days.
> 
> ...





Instructions


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 6, 2009)

24d said:


> Today
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't view it without being logged into your AOL account. Goran sent me a copy, too. But he told me not to share it publicly yet It still had some typos, maybe he got it finished.


----------



## parrisw (Mar 6, 2009)

wanab said:


> speed cutting and race cutting with skip???



HUUU??? watcha mean??? 

Reason is I use skip allot, and would be nice for it to work with skip chain.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Mar 7, 2009)

parrisw said:


> HUUU??? watcha mean???



Vallorbe Race Cut System


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 7, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Vallorbe Race Cut System



The name is actually just to attract attention. It's intended just as much for commercial cutters or firewood cutters as it is for racers.


----------



## wanab (Mar 7, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> It's intended just as much for commercial cutters or firewood cutters as it is for racers.



really?

i was told the edge was less durable and not desirable for commercial cutting.

i know where my info came from and it was a source high up in the foodchain , where does yours come from?



:monkey:


----------



## Scooterbum (Mar 7, 2009)

wanab said:


> really?
> 
> i was told the edge was less durable and not desirable for commercial cutting.
> 
> ...




Poke..............Poke..........oke:


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 7, 2009)

wanab said:


> really?
> 
> i was told the edge was less durable and not desirable for commercial cutting.
> 
> ...



The inventor?/company owner?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 7, 2009)

Göran Carlström said:


> The customer group for this US version of full square groung gauge is from fire wood cutters to pro users.





Göran Carlström said:


> Please note that the full ground sharped chains by ATOP Racing Cut is made for "all types" of customers. The Atop Racing cut name are choosed to draw attention to our product. .



.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 7, 2009)

The name is like Stihl using Magnum on some of there saw models in some countries


----------



## wanab (Mar 7, 2009)

im interested in where this was originally posted? 

i agree the name was chosen for marketing purposes.






wanab said:


> i was told the edge was less durable and not desirable for commercial cutting.




Originally Posted by Göran Carlström 
"The customer group for this US version of full square groung gauge is from fire wood cutters *to pro users*."


i think this statement speaks to my point. by wording it that way it leaves the door open for it not to be targeted at pros. im sure if your results where less than expected you would be told politely that is not its main intended purpose.


just a hunch.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 7, 2009)

The instructions are easy to understand so everybody that can file a chain should b able use this guide !
And it is not race chain in competition terms but for a person that never have cut with anything else than a normal roundfiled chain it might feel like it 

i get away with two-three chains under a days (8 hours) cutting in the woods, i bring three chains with me and change when needed as i prefer sharpening at my work bench.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 7, 2009)

wanab said:


> im interested in where this was originally posted?
> 
> i agree the name was chosen for marketing purposes.
> 
> ...



Well someone's words can be taken however you wish, but I don't see that it's "speaking to your point". Basically, he's saying that it's intended for the entire chainsawing market, from small time cutters to pro users.


----------



## wanab (Mar 7, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Well someone's words can be taken however you wish



that is why it works so good for them by saying it like that.





let me give you a lesson in economics 101. the CEO of a wallstreet company says we will not need to raise more capital, we will not cut the dividend, ect....


what really is going on in the company is something other that what is being stated/implied depending on your perception.


best of luck marketing this system to all your pro customers.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 7, 2009)

wanab said:


> that is why it works so good for them by saying it like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some of my pro customers already use hand-filed square ground chain

btw, the quotes came from email correspondence with Mr. Carlstrom


----------



## wanab (Mar 7, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> *Some* of my pro customers already use hand-filed square ground chain





so you admit that it is for some and *not* intended to be marketed to all???


opcorn:


----------



## gatkeper1 (Mar 7, 2009)

wanab said:


> so you admit that it is for some and *not* intended to be marketed to all???
> 
> 
> opcorn:



I'm willing to bet they don't intend to market toward those who find fault in everything


----------



## Edge & Engine (Mar 7, 2009)

wanab said:


> so you admit that it is for some and *not* intended to be marketed to all???
> 
> 
> opcorn:


Haha, I find you very amusing 

The reason most people (regardless of whether they cut for a living or not) do not use square ground chain is because they lack the skill or equipment to sharpen it. ATOP's goal is to change that.


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Mar 7, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Haha, I find you very amusing
> 
> The reason most people (regardless of whether they cut for a living or not) do not use square ground chain is because they lack the skill or equipment to sharpen it. ATOP's goal is to change that.



That's me, I lack the equipment. I got a Stihl FG2 coming for my round, square is some good stuff though.


----------



## wanab (Mar 7, 2009)

i cannot speak for your customer base but from my experience commercial cutters have no interest in the need for an expensive item that will create more downtime and be harder for lower skilled/paid employees to use effectively. they seem to want to jump out of the truck, pick up the saw that has been bouncing around since the last job and cut for as long as possible before a resharp is required.

clearly there are hardcore and enthusiasts that do not fall into this category but it is far less that the all or entire market you foresee.


JM2C's!


----------



## Chopwood (Mar 7, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> For god's sake people! As long as some of you have been sitting around waiting for this thing, just go buy some damn files and learn! It's not hard at all, really, to square file.



I posted this a month ago, has anybody taken my advice? Really, if this thing gets any more outrageous, Billy Mays is going yo be selling it. Race file system????? HAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA! Show up at a real race with one of your Billy Mays chains.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Mar 7, 2009)

You know it's not meant to compete with a hand filed custom race chain, yet you argue against it as if you think it is. 

Everyone here sees it as a way to get decent results sharpening square without sitting over a bench for hours and hours practicing. Nothing more.

Ian


----------



## berryman70 (Mar 7, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> You know it's not meant to compete with a hand filed custom race chain, yet you argue against it as if you do.
> 
> Everyone here sees it as a way to get decent results sharpening square without sitting over a bench for hours and hours practicing. Nothing more.
> 
> Ian



:agree2:
I just told Kyle (edge & engines) I'd be interested in one when they come in.
Good tools are expensive, you get what you pay for, also when something new comes out you pay for design & technology. From what I've read on this thread I don't believe it is intended for an all out racechain, but a way for the average cutter to be able to make a square ground and take advantage of faster cutting speed.


----------



## chowdozer (Mar 7, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Haha, I find you very amusing
> 
> The reason most people (regardless of whether they cut for a living or not) do not use square ground chain is because they lack the skill or equipment to sharpen it. ATOP's goal is to change that.



lol, yeah E&E. 

Seems like wana p who doesn't have one, hasn't used one and hasn't seen one sure knows alot.


----------



## super3 (Mar 7, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> I posted this a month ago, has anybody taken my advice? Really, if this thing gets any more outrageous, Billy Mays is going yo be selling it. Race file system????? HAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA! Show up at a real race with one of your Billy Mays chains.




Go back and read no.125,I got some more files,I'm still learnin.I'm getting better. I'd still like to see how this thing compares to my filing.


----------



## landroverbill (Mar 7, 2009)

looks like this?


----------



## 046 (Mar 7, 2009)

basically correct... most folks don't have $1,000 for a square grinder. 
even if one takes the time to learn how to file square by hand. most don't have the time and/or patience to spend 15-20 minutes per chain. 

besides price of entry... main drawback is fragile tooth angles. it's advantage is it's weakness. if you stay in nothing but clean wood. square cut will maintain it's sharpness for a long time. 

touch the least little dirt and square goes dull! 
round chain is way more durable than square. if you are cutting lots of dirty wood... no way you'd want square chain. 

that being said... once you cut with a nice sharp square chain... you don't want to be without... much faster cut... at least 30% faster for me. 



Edge & Engine said:


> Haha, I find you very amusing
> 
> The reason most people (regardless of whether they cut for a living or not) do not use square ground chain is because they lack the skill or equipment to sharpen it. ATOP's goal is to change that.


----------



## redprospector (Mar 8, 2009)

046 said:


> basically correct... most folks don't have $1,000 for a square grinder.
> even if one takes the time to learn how to file square by hand. most don't have the time and/or patience to spend 15-20 minutes per chain.
> 
> besides price of entry... main drawback is fragile tooth angles. it's advantage is it's weakness. if you stay in nothing but clean wood. square cut will maintain it's sharpness for a long time.
> ...



If a person put's in the time to get proficient with a file it dosen't take 15 to 20 minutes to file a chain, unless you let it get "ball peen hammer" dull.
I can touch up a dull chain in the woods about as fast as most can touch up a round filed chain. But I've been doing it for a day or two.

Andy


----------



## 046 (Mar 8, 2009)

you've got my admiration, if you can hand sharpen a square chain fast as round. typically takes me 3 to 4 minutes to sharpen a round chain on the bar. 

as you pointed out... you've been doing it longer. it took me two week's worth of figuring out, before I could produce a reasonably good cutting square chain. 

but no matter what I would do... it'd take me at least 15 minute to do a chain. when you've got 6-7 chains to sharpen... it's not happening!



redprospector said:


> If a person put's in the time to get proficient with a file it dosen't take 15 to 20 minutes to file a chain, unless you let it get "ball peen hammer" dull.
> I can touch up a dull chain in the woods about as fast as most can touch up a round filed chain. But I've been doing it for a day or two.
> 
> Andy


----------



## redprospector (Mar 8, 2009)

046 said:


> you've got my admiration, if you can hand sharpen a square chain fast as round. typically takes me 3 to 4 minutes to sharpen a round chain on the bar.
> 
> as you pointed out... you've been doing it longer. it took me two week's worth of figuring out, before I could produce a reasonably good cutting square chain.
> 
> but no matter what I would do... it'd take me at least 15 minute to do a chain. when you've got 6-7 chains to sharpen... it's not happening!



It typically takes me about 5 to 6 minutes to touch up a chain. That's for a 28 to 32" bar. If you have to take more than 3 strokes per tooth you went too far with a square grind.
Keep at it, you'll get there.

Andy


----------



## 046 (Mar 8, 2009)

ok... will have to give a go touching up square on the bar ..
been carrying an extra dozen freshly ground square chains.
starting to get faster at changing out chains. 



redprospector said:


> It typically takes me about 5 to 6 minutes to touch up a chain. That's for a 28 to 32" bar. If you have to take more than 3 strokes per tooth you went too far with a square grind.
> Keep at it, you'll get there.
> 
> Andy


----------



## wanab (Mar 8, 2009)

chowdozer said:


> lol, yeah E&E.
> 
> Seems like wana p who doesn't have one, hasn't used one and hasn't seen one sure knows alot.






LoL,yeah!

Edge$Engine

i might not know a lot about this product but its more than 90%+ of the peeps posting in this thread know. infact i could show you one of these chains right now, can you say that?





just to be clear i endorse this product given disclaimer of use/intended purpose.


----------



## John Ellison (Mar 8, 2009)

046 said:


> starting to get faster at changing out chains.



Does anyone else put on a new chain with the saw on its side, instead of in an upright position? For me it is a lot faster.


----------



## grandpatractor (Mar 8, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> Does anyone else put on a new chain with the saw on its side, instead of in an upright position? For me it is a lot faster.



Yup!


----------



## 24d (Mar 27, 2009)

This came today. . . Later,


Goran said:


> Hi larry,
> 
> Took some extra days to the final item from the printing company, now we are ready tp pack and send to the US.
> 
> Baileys, Amicks,Edge&Engine, Lazer cut will get samples, I belive with 1-2 weeks due to transport, customes,etc


----------



## 046 (Mar 27, 2009)

does anyone know what these will sell for?


----------



## flashpuppy (Mar 27, 2009)

I called Baileys. The guy I talked to didn't have any idea what I was talking about....


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 27, 2009)

Who did you talk to ?


----------



## flashpuppy (Mar 27, 2009)

SWE#Kipp said:


> Who did you talk to ?



Doug. BTW, how many guys answer the phone there?


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Mar 27, 2009)

24d said:


> This came today. . . Later,



Nice! Hopefully we will get to try one out at Tony's.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 27, 2009)

flashpuppy said:


> Doug. BTW, how many guys answer the phone there?



I don't know how many answers the phone, but i think Goran talked to Greg if i'm not mistaken ,,,


----------



## B_Turner (Mar 27, 2009)

redprospector said:


> It typically takes me about 5 to 6 minutes to touch up a chain. That's for a 28 to 32" bar. If you have to take more than 3 strokes per tooth you went too far with a square grind.
> Keep at it, you'll get there.
> 
> Andy



That's impressive.

I tend to watch the shop clock a bit when I sharpen, and it always takes me longer than I think it took. And I use a Pro Sharp with square, so I have it easy.

In terms of the jig, I almost never am running less than a 28 inch bar, and all my square 28 and up is full skip. So it sounds the jig wouldn't work for me anyway.

I do like the idea of more folks finding out how much faster and easier square can be.


----------



## B_Turner (Mar 27, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> Does anyone else put on a new chain with the saw on its side, instead of in an upright position? For me it is a lot faster.



Is there another way than on it's side?

Guess I use enough long bars that I don't even consider a vertical position.


----------



## Grande Dog (Mar 27, 2009)

Howdy, 
We have about a dozen men, and 4 women who pick up the phones on a regular basis. As you can tell by previous history of this thread, these guides have been in the works for quite awhile. I wasn't going to mention anything til I had them in my hands. It sounds like they're on the way now. I will be posting a thread in our forum looking for some testers for these guides. I'll be looking for as wide a variety of full comp chisel users as possible. I'm not sure how many I'll be able to put out there but, I don't think it'll be any more than a half dozen. 
Regards
Gregg


----------



## scotclayshooter (Mar 27, 2009)

Will it only work with the special files or will it work with others like Baileys or save edge?

I priced Vallorbe files here and they were extortionate!


----------



## tdi-rick (Mar 27, 2009)

scotclayshooter said:


> Will it only work with the special files or will it work with others like Baileys or save edge?
> 
> I priced Vallorbe files here and they were extortionate!



really ??

They are price competitive with the other brands here


----------



## scotclayshooter (Mar 27, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> really ??
> 
> They are price competitive with the other brands here



Hi Tommy



The price for these files is as follows:



VLC2270-7 £8.46/FILE. These must be bought in quantities of 12 and the delivery time is 3 weeks approx.



Kind regards

Dawn

Thats a copy and paste of the email

£8.46 = $11.84 $1390 inc vat + carrage!!!!!!!! $166.80 for 12 plus carrage!


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Mar 27, 2009)

LOL, it would be cheaper for you to buy a square grinder.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 27, 2009)

you can use pferd files but for best result the Vallorbe would be the right one to use !
I have tried three different files with the guide, two from Vallorbe and one from Pferd, one of the Vallorbe files looks much like a regular chisel bit file but the "cuts" on the file are straight a cross and not sideways that seems to be the norm ,, and it gives a smooth chatter free ride for the file


----------



## scotclayshooter (Mar 27, 2009)

SWE#Kipp said:


> you can use pferd files but for best result the Vallorbe would be the right one to use !
> I have tried three different files with the guide, two from Vallorbe and one from Pferd, one of the Vallorbe files looks much like a regular chisel bit file but the "cuts" on the file are straight a cross and not sideways that seems to be the norm ,, and it gives a smooth chatter free ride for the file



Ok thats good but you see my dilemma, Im prepared to buy a guide but need to find an economical way of getting files in the UK.

If not im just going to learn the hard way. Without a guide.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 27, 2009)

It seems verrry expensive for the files !?
maybe they cost that much ,, but it's allot for sure !!


----------



## scotclayshooter (Mar 27, 2009)

SWE#Kipp said:


> It seems verrry expensive for the files !?
> maybe they cost that much ,, but it's allot for sure !!



I can buy Stihl raker files for £2 each so it cant cost that much more to make a file with toothed edges at an angle!

And of that £2 theres £0.30 vat and Stihl and the dealer make a profit on that plus everyone in the middle and the manufacturer!


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 27, 2009)

2£ is about the same as 30 swedish crowns and that is approx what the files cost here !!!


----------



## scotclayshooter (Mar 27, 2009)

SWE#Kipp said:


> 2£ is about the same as 30 swedish crowns and that is approx what the files cost here !!!



Hey buddy i hope you have a paypal account!


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Mar 27, 2009)

scotclayshooter said:


> Hey buddy i hope you have a paypal account!



hahaha


----------



## tdi-rick (Mar 28, 2009)

scotclayshooter said:


> <snip>
> 
> VLC2270-7 £8.46/FILE. These must be bought in quantities of 12 and the delivery time is 3 weeks approx.
> 
> ...



:jawdrop: That's $17.46 Aussie.....

To be fair, I can't find the LC2270-7 in any of my local catalogues either.

Vallorbe 6" flat (raker) files are around $5.75 here.


----------



## Crofter (Mar 28, 2009)

I bet they sell about a million times as many flat raker files as they do flat chisel bit files so we have to pay for the special treatment!

I just wrecked one corner of a good file this morning by being pig headed on a couple of hard teeth from a bit of previous grinder hardening. I still had to take a fine propane torch to them and anneal em back a bit to file. The chisel bit files dont take near the gaff that a round file will, so mixing grinding and hand filing can be a problem. Use one of your farm team files to test each cutter on a new chain or a previous ground one before you dull a choice file that has nice clean crisp corners.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Apr 23, 2009)

This is what they look packed up and ready to be delivered


----------



## Tzed250 (Apr 23, 2009)

SWE#Kipp said:


> This is what they look packed up and ready to be delivered



Bring it!!!


----------



## pecor (Apr 23, 2009)

Where? When? How much? :monkey:


----------



## ents (May 6, 2009)

<a href="http://www.bigoo.ws/Images"><img border="0" src="http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/smiles/smiles_2.gif"></a><p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><a href="http://www.bigoo.ws/Images"></a></p>


----------



## pecor (May 6, 2009)

Their probably are on one of those High Jacked freighters off cape horn :jawdrop:


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 6, 2009)

pecor said:


> Their probably are on one of those High Jacked freighters off cape horn



LOL... yep, and the crew is sharpening chains to pass the time.

Ian


----------



## SWE#Kipp (May 7, 2009)

Nope Goran got an other job too, this is his "side project" and right now he is in Asia with his "real" job ,,,,,


----------



## Edge & Engine (May 26, 2009)

This is getting closer to reality...stay tuned.


----------



## chainsawwhisperer (May 26, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> This is getting closer to reality...stay tuned.



ZZZ ZZZ ZZZ
Wake me up when they get here.
Yours truly, 
Rip Van Winkle


----------



## 2000ssm6 (May 26, 2009)

Any "set in stone" prices?


----------



## 046 (May 26, 2009)

note the date of OP..... it's been ONE year of almost now. 

IMHO this really hurts the credibility of this product. 
the story of crying wolf comes to mind...



Edge & Engine said:


> This is getting closer to reality...stay tuned.


----------



## Edge & Engine (May 26, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> Any "set in stone" prices?



No, not yet.


----------



## Chopwood (May 26, 2009)

Washington Hot Saws must be doing the field testing on this thing.
Just buy some double-bevels boys, it's not really that hard.


----------



## 2000ssm6 (May 26, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> Washington Hot Saws must be doing the field testing on this thing.
> Just buy some double-bevels boys, it's not really that hard.



I've been waiting on this system instead of buying $85 worth of square files for my FG-2. The $85 is looking better. I not going to even try to free hand square and I got 3 dull squares now that need to be sharpened.:bang:

Some advice for the others: Don't buy square unless you have a means of sharpening it.


----------



## ents (May 27, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> ...Some advice for the others: Don't buy square unless you have a means of sharpening it.



That's why I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting.................


----------



## Grande Dog (Jun 2, 2009)

Howdy,
Here's a youtube video for the ATOP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnW309wWqO0
Regards
Gregg


----------



## B_Turner (Jun 2, 2009)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> Here's a youtube video for the ATOP.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnW309wWqO0
> Regards
> Gregg



Makes me want to go out and buy a square grinder.


Oh wait, I already have one....

Now if the ATOP gizmo would do .325...


----------



## Grande Dog (Jun 2, 2009)

Howdy,
It'll do .325 with a smaller file. I only received the ones for .375.
Regards
Gregg


----------



## slnranger (Jun 2, 2009)

*when*

will they be availible for purchase?


----------



## Grande Dog (Jun 2, 2009)

Howdy,
That's really the sixty four dollar question. I'm coming into this project later than most. I will do my best to get this product expedited. From reading the long history, I'm not ready to speculate on delivery times.
Regards
Gregg


----------



## B_Turner (Jun 2, 2009)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> It'll do .325 with a smaller file. I only received the ones for .375.
> Regards
> Gregg



square .325 might be a real sleeper.


----------



## brncreeper (Jun 15, 2009)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> Here's a youtube video for the ATOP.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnW309wWqO0
> Regards
> Gregg


Impressive video, makes me want one even more.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 15, 2009)

No doubt that it is quicker.... but notice how fast they get the ATOP saw to the top and cutting the second cookie and notice the lag between cookies on their round ground video.... 

Ian


----------



## parrisw (Jun 15, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> No doubt that it is quicker.... but notice how fast they get the ATOP saw to the top and cutting the second cookie and notice the lag between cookies on their round ground video....
> 
> Ian



That doesn't matter though, notice the stop watch, they stop the clock each time a cut is finished, then started again when started.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 15, 2009)

You're right... I didn't notice that...

Ian


----------



## Stihl Crazy (Jun 15, 2009)

I have one here to play with, thanks to Grande Dog. Going to put it to the test in hardwood running against my regular work chains. I don't care how it stacks up to out of the box chains. Always file my new chains before they hit the wood.

20 plus years ago when I went to work for the local pulp company every new worker had to take the manditory safety/filing couse. First words out of the instructor mouth were, " if you think a new chain cuts you need this course". Second were " if an out of the box chain is faster than your filed chain, you definately need this course".


----------



## parrisw (Jun 15, 2009)

What are these things worth??


----------



## 046 (Jun 15, 2009)

vallorabe = vaporware



slnranger said:


> will they be availible for purchase?


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jun 16, 2009)

yes they will and relatively soon too, Goran is doing all that he possible can to get them to the US market first ,,, you can't buy them in Sweden yet either if that is of any comfort for you


----------



## 046 (Jun 16, 2009)

oh sure... we really really want to believe you ... after one year of it's almost ready...
the story of the boy that cried wolf comes to mind



SWE#Kipp said:


> yes they will and relatively soon too, Goran is doing all that he possible can to get them to the US market first ,,, you can't buy them in Sweden yet either if that is of any comfort for you


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jun 16, 2009)

sorry that you feel that way,,,,,, and i don't blame you at all, guess i would have felt the same way 
But for me it has been a short time left to the release of the guide but that might be so because i talked to Goran about this type of guide at approx 4 years ago. 

But as mentioned above I don't blame you for the wolf feeling !


----------



## brncreeper (Jun 16, 2009)

:censored:I guess I'll look for the Chinese copy.


----------



## parrisw (Jun 22, 2009)

Anybody know final pricing on these?? I want faster chains, if it's pricey I might as well learn freehand square filing.


----------



## 24d (Jun 26, 2009)

________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Goran said:


> I have partly been informed by people who look at the various forums that the discussion about square ground sharpening is very exciting. This is just great, it show the amount of intertest we have out there. We seeing us as pretty "brave", beeing a small company 10 hrs flight from the huge US market. Then on top of this "attacking" the so "myth surronded" square ground filing. Hard to ask for any bigger challange.
> 
> To put even more excitment into the debate do we stick out saying. To do square ground sharpening is not that particiular difficult. Every logger with reasonable experience can do it, and become a real chain saw man. Every initiated logger has it"s on trick of setting filing agles, to carburettor setting, to own fuel mixture, etc,etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## redprospector (Jun 26, 2009)

Pretty close.
In my opinion it's the corner where the two "angels" meet that does the cutting.
Of corse if he really has angel's on his chain, it should be faster and last longer than anything known to man. Being a mere mortal, I'm stuck using angle's on my chain. 

 Just kidding.

Andy


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 26, 2009)

redprospector said:


> corse



Course  It's your native language Andy, sing it out! LOL


----------



## redprospector (Jun 27, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Course  It's your native language Andy, sing it out! LOL



Hahaha. I speak redneck, that's my native language. In redneck corse would be acceptable. 
I guess if I was going to be a smart aleck I should have used the spell check.


----------



## 24d (Jun 29, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Course  It's your native language Andy, sing it out! LOL



I thot cents Mr. Fred lef we could all thow spell'n 2 da curb HAHA!


----------



## 24d (Jun 29, 2009)

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-



Goran said:


> Hi Larry
> Prototype is one thing, O serial production is cloose to production with option to change, we are there now
> 
> We have been in a council meeting today and processed all input from "you people over there. We have taken all fact and input into concideration and worked out an urgent change on the O serial units we have under testing in the US.
> ...


----------



## smokinj (Jun 29, 2009)

Crofter said:


> I think that is a typo. It uses the goofy file but does not present the file as in square filing. They are supposed to be working on a new prototype that holds the file on a different angle. Here is a picture of the file in position in a cutter on the jig.
> 
> Edit, sorry that is out of focus but gives a bit more detail of the roller position and the angle it holds the file.



I have seen this one and the price is going to be high!


----------



## super3 (Jul 17, 2009)

What do the files cost?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Jul 18, 2009)

I received the revised file guide from Goran the other day, and today I found a spare moment to give it a try. I have never used a file to sharpen a saw chain in my life. This was the very first time. It took a little while to "get the hang of it", which I fully expected. But it wasn't too long before I was getting perfect angles and the teeth looked like they were sharpened by a pro
But the best part was yet to come. I slapped the chain on my 7900 and headed out to make some cookies. Now I've run square ground chain before, including a test chain that Goran had sent me. I know the chain that Goran sent me wasn't perfect, it was sharpened with an early version jig.
I was really impressed. Super smooth, and boy did it cut quick. I'm afraid I won't be going back to round ground chain.


----------



## parrisw (Jul 18, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> I received the revised file guide from Goran the other day, and today I found a spare moment to give it a try. I have never used a file to sharpen a saw chain in my life. This was the very first time. It took a little while to "get the hang of it", which I fully expected. But it wasn't too long before I was getting perfect angles and the teeth looked like they were sharpened by a pro
> But the best part was yet to come. I slapped the chain on my 7900 and headed out to make some cookies. Now I've run square ground chain before, including a test chain that Goran had sent me. I know the chain that Goran sent me wasn't perfect, it was sharpened with an early version jig.
> I was really impressed. Super smooth, and boy did it cut quick. I'm afraid I won't be going back to round ground chain.



This is all great but... ??????????????? When can we buy one??? If ever?? I keep hearing great things, but allot of good that does.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jul 19, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> I received the revised file guide from Goran the other day, and today I found a spare moment to give it a try. I have never used a file to sharpen a saw chain in my life. This was the very first time. It took a little while to "get the hang of it", which I fully expected. But it wasn't too long before I was getting perfect angles and the teeth looked like they were sharpened by a pro
> But the best part was yet to come. I slapped the chain on my 7900 and headed out to make some cookies. Now I've run square ground chain before, including a test chain that Goran had sent me. I know the chain that Goran sent me wasn't perfect, it was sharpened with an early version jig.
> I was really impressed. Super smooth, and boy did it cut quick. I'm afraid I won't be going back to round ground chain.



Did you get the 9,2mm rollers ??


----------



## nategyoder (Sep 2, 2009)

Is this ever going to happen?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Sep 2, 2009)

Yes, they should be out in several weeks, retail around $220


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Yes, they should be out in several weeks, retail around $220



Ouch!! How much is a square grinder.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2009)

parrisw said:


> Ouch!! How much is a square grinder.



$750, $900, $1700, $2300. Take your pick


----------



## super3 (Sep 2, 2009)

super3 said:


> What do the files cost?




Once again.........How much are the files?

Or does it use the regular square file?


----------



## Grande Dog (Sep 2, 2009)

Howdy,
It'll be a couple weeks yet before we're ready to ship. Our initial introductory retail price will be $199.95 and will include a couple files. The files are going to be about $7.50ea and about $75.00 per dozen. These are the links but, there isn't anything there except pricing. We'll populate the information as soon as possible. It will allow you to back order til we receive our shipment.
Regards
Gregg
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15080&catID=
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15080+DZ&catID=
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15280&catID=


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Sep 2, 2009)

$200+ for a file guide? LOL... That right there's funny.

Ian


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Sep 2, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> $200+ for a file guide? LOL... That right there's funny.
> 
> Ian



Back to round for me.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2009)

.




$200?


Jiminy Christmas....




.


----------



## 046 (Sep 2, 2009)

my used simington 450 was $275 shipped to me... but those kind of deals don't come up too often. 

you can buy a new simington square grinder for about $700 

$200 sounds is bit stiff for a filing guide... vote with your wallet



parrisw said:


> Ouch!! How much is a square grinder.


----------



## Hddnis (Sep 3, 2009)

I'll probably give it a try when I get some spare scratch. $200 may be high for a file guide, but it is the first of its kind. 

If all you whiners think you can do as good or better and bring it to market cheaper then start making and selling them.


Mr. HE


----------



## 046 (Sep 3, 2009)

no whining from me... vote with your wallet

this was suppose to be an affordable way to achieve square grinding that's dragged on... and on... 



Hddnis said:


> I'll probably give it a try when I get some spare scratch. $200 may be high for a file guide, but it is the first of its kind.
> 
> If all you whiners think you can do as good or better and bring it to market cheaper then start making and selling them.
> 
> ...


----------



## pecor (Sep 3, 2009)

Well If ya don't buy. Ya can afford to have Cheese with your Whine:jawdrop:


----------



## 046 (Sep 3, 2009)

no one is forcing anyone to buy... 

someone takes the risks... which in this case is almost none (unless the file guide doesn't work as advertised), due to the pent up demand caused by super high prices on square grinders. 

they should be able to charge what the market will bear. which is what Silvey has been doing for years. 



pecor said:


> Well If ya don't buy. Ya can afford to have Cheese with your Whine:jawdrop:


----------



## parrisw (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't think anybody is whining. I certainly am not, I'm stating my opinion which I am entitled to, along with everybody else. I'm just not going to pay $200 for a file guide.


----------



## redlinefever (Sep 7, 2009)

does anybody else no what the rollers will cost to replace????????


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Oct 7, 2009)

Seems like Baileys got them now.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15280&catID=


----------



## brokenbudget (Nov 12, 2009)

so when will the larger rollers be available? and how much?


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Nov 12, 2009)

Ask again in a year or two... and if your screen name is an indication of your bank account balance, forget about it even then. 

Ian


----------



## brokenbudget (Nov 12, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Ask again in a year or two... and if your screen name is an indication of your bank account balance, forget about it even then.
> 
> Ian



no respect! no respect i tells ya!:jester:
yeah if they're like the rest of this thing i might as well wait for the second coming of christ


----------



## J.W Younger (Nov 12, 2009)

I have touched up my oregon cl a couple of times and square filed 2 lgx chains. This is filed using the 45/45 factory angles which is not all that hard but may not be the fastest. Anyway its not as hard as I was expecting and the saws really like it.As much as I want a jig it may be awhile before it happens.
P.S. the hardest part for me is not getting side beaks, no problems yet with top beaks.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 12, 2009)

The side angle is hard. Before you start filing the cutter, file back the gullets a bit, it really helps.


----------



## grandpatractor (Nov 12, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> The side angle is hard. Before you start filing the cutter, file back the gullets a bit, it really helps.



Now ya tell me. I had to figure it out on my own. Hard on files otherwise.:agree2:


----------



## Troy G (Jan 18, 2010)

*ATOP square filing guide*

So anyone spring for the Atop square filing guide from Baileys? Any reviews?


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 19, 2010)

yes but not on this forum ,,,,,


----------



## Troy G (Jan 19, 2010)

SWE#Kipp said:


> yes but not on this forum ,,,,,



Care to enlighten me, point me in the right direction, or elaborate on your statement?


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 19, 2010)

check your pm inbox


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 19, 2010)

Not going to share the reviews with the rest of us? LOL

Ian


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 20, 2010)

Would, but a link would possible lead to a ban so ,,,,,


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 20, 2010)

I did a google for "vallorbe racing cut system" and found it for $93 at an online retailer that I think used to be a sponsor, but I'm not sure. It's the first search result at google. That price is a little more tolerable.

Ian


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 20, 2010)

I use my square guide allot and would love to have one for .325 but i'm not sure that would be possible to make one.

Using this guide is good way to get the feel for square filing in my opinion, i have speeded up my freehanding quite a bit since i started using the guide which is nice for field touch ups, but in the workshop i use the guide all the time !!

Bailyes sells the guide that is the only retailer i know of !?!?


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Jan 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I did a google for "vallorbe racing cut system" and found it for $93 at an online retailer that I think used to be a sponsor, but I'm not sure. It's the first search result at google. That price is a little more tolerable.
> 
> Ian



Compared to the $200 Atop guide, that Vallorbe does look tempting.


----------



## Troy G (Jan 20, 2010)

After sifting through the 19 pages here I am not entirely sure if the Vallarobe and the ATOP were the exact same filing guides.


----------



## scotclayshooter (Jan 20, 2010)

I think that that is the old pre ATOP guide made for the Goofy file.


----------



## 046 (Jan 20, 2010)

this thread was started 04-02-2008...

so has anyone actually purchased one and can give us feedback on how it works?


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 21, 2010)

They work very nice, with the two set of rollers you can choose different angels and for the more "advanced" user you can "mod" the u-bolt to take it even further !
A sturdy and versatile piece of kit


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 21, 2010)

What is the difference between the Vallorbe and the Atop other than they use different files?

Ian


----------



## 046 (Jan 21, 2010)

thanks very much for your kind input over the last 2 years. 

but it would be nice to hear feedback from an actual purchaser. 
any out there? 



SWE#Kipp said:


> They work very nice, with the two set of rollers you can choose different angels and for the more "advanced" user you can "mod" the u-bolt to take it even further !
> A sturdy and versatile piece of kit


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 21, 2010)

Ya know... I'm as curious as the next fellow, but the difference is that today I was offered a $3000 settlement on an automobile accident that was inflicted on me this time last year. 

I might just bite the bullet for the crew here and buy one of these things to report on it.

Who here would be interested in paying $5 or $10 to try one for a week before passing it on? I thought about doing that to recoup some the cost. I was thinking about offering it only to members with 500+ posts so that maybe it wouldn't disappear like the Leveraxe did.

I'm not sure yet, just pondering the possibility. I still get a little vomit in the back of my throat just thinking about buying a $200 file guide.

Ian


----------



## mdavlee (Jan 21, 2010)

I would be game for something like that to try. I'm like you about buying a $200 file guide. Thats close to a 1/3 way to a Simington grinder.


----------



## Troy G (Jan 21, 2010)

If the ATOP had many positive reviews I would not be as reluctant to buy a 200.00 file guide.


----------



## brokenbudget (Jan 21, 2010)

it's only been available for a few months, i'm sure somebody will be along with a review.
Haywire, i like that idea. see, i have one sitting in my shop, not much time to use it right away. maybe you need to borrow mine and do a complete review.
i have done a couple of chains, but they weren't really the right chains for the jig (i do have some lgx on order) so i can't really give a thorough opinion on it yet.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 21, 2010)

Heck... if you have one already, get ta typing.  We need some detailed pictures of a tooth before and after getting sharpened, how easy it is to use, how long the edge lasts, maybe a video or 10 showing off-the-spool round chisel vs off-the-spool square to Atop square.

Ian


----------



## brokenbudget (Jan 21, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Heck... if you have one already, get ta typing.  We need some detailed pictures of a tooth before and after getting sharpened, how easy it is to use, how long the edge lasts, maybe a video or 10 showing off-the-spool round chisel vs off-the-spool square to Atop square.
> 
> Ian



i would love to but most weekends i'm stuck at work or i'm home late.
i wouldn't be able to until almost spring with my schedual.
fraking thing is i was supposed to be "free" after last september, now they want me to go back and forth to alberta and a weekly basis.:monkey:

when will there be any steve time

however let me know if you want to try it.


----------



## 046 (Jan 21, 2010)

at last... a real user of the fabled file guide.... some new info too

what's this about requiring the "right chains" for this guide to work properly? have not read every post in this thread... must have missed this bit of info. 

it would suck for this guide to only work with only certain chains. 
brokenbudget...Please clarify.....



brokenbudget said:


> it's only been available for a few months, i'm sure somebody will be along with a review.
> Haywire, i like that idea. see, i have one sitting in my shop, not much time to use it right away. maybe you need to borrow mine and do a complete review.
> i have done a couple of chains, but they weren't really the right chains for the jig (i do have some lgx on order) so i can't really give a thorough opinion on it yet.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, to rehash what we do know... It only works with full comp chain.. no skip or semi-skip. Beyond that, I don't know about brand preferences. Doesn't seem like it would make a difference if it were Oregon or Stihl.

Ian


----------



## rmihalek (Jan 22, 2010)

*square edge*

You would certainly need a chisel-type cutter to convert it to square. Something like round filed 72LG or 73LG can be converted to square ground. If the transition from the top plate to the side plate is rounded, then you won't get a sharp point at the transition.

I don't think the "chipper" style cutters with a rounded transition from the top-plate to the side-plate can be converted to square.


----------



## redprospector (Jan 22, 2010)

$200 a pop for a file guide huh?
Maybe I should start a school for square filing. Tuition could be $200 a head, and students wouldn't need to buy a file guide, and when the class was over student's would be able to file all configurations of chisel chain.

Seriously guy's, the only file guides you need is your left thumb, and your right index finger.

Andy


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 22, 2010)

Gregg Grande (of Bailey's) offered to send me one of their "test" ATOPs to try. I ordered a loop of Oregon square chisel chain to go along with it. I'll take some pics, maybe a video and do some cut times. Now I have to find a log to cut. I'm all out. 

Ian


----------



## wooddog (Jan 22, 2010)

I never heard of a atop before but a quick search turns up videos. 

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TN_rzTVkpss&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TN_rzTVkpss&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3VpmCcW4efI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3VpmCcW4efI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k5RRdaV8K8E&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k5RRdaV8K8E&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_PLLQ2N_3I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_PLLQ2N_3I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="384" height="313"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7wonB_bZdXE&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7wonB_bZdXE&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="384" height="313" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NS1UpLyGiTM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NS1UpLyGiTM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHJoLGId1go&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHJoLGId1go&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object


----------



## parrisw (Jan 22, 2010)

Id love to have one, but just cant swallow the price of one. I'd rather spend $450 on a used grinder.


----------



## mdavlee (Jan 22, 2010)

:agree2: I missed a Simington 451 by $2 at $357. It was a sniping service that beat me.


----------



## parrisw (Jan 23, 2010)

mdavlee said:


> :agree2: I missed a Simington 451 by $2 at $357. It was a sniping service that beat me.



Ouch that sucks.


----------



## mdavlee (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah that hurt. I thought I was going to be able to run square all the time and not have to file for hours. I can hand file a 28" semi skip now in about 25 minutes. I can do a 28" full comp round in about 10 minutes off the saw. It takes longer to move it and tighten it back down in my jig than it does to sharpen 7 cutters.


----------



## wooddog (Jan 23, 2010)

The shop up here just sold a Silvey square sharpener for $400. The model above the swing arm silvey. 
There was another in the paper in the U.P. for $400 last week, same type shop sold.


----------



## 046 (Jan 23, 2010)

rats... don't give up... deals for square grinders are out there, just far and few in between. 

got real lucky and scored my Simington 450 on Arborist site for $275 shipped, if I remember right.... now if I can just find a deal on a Silvey Pro Sharp 



mdavlee said:


> :agree2: I missed a Simington 451 by $2 at $357. It was a sniping service that beat me.


----------



## mdavlee (Jan 23, 2010)

Well when you do sell me the simington. I'm just running square to play when cutting wood that I have cut down. Any wood that I don't know when it hit the ground I usually don't use it on. It's a little too much work to file 3 or 4 square chains in a day. I usually just switch them out when they get dull to round and keep cutting.


----------



## super3 (Jan 23, 2010)

Keep filing, the only way to get better and faster at it is to keep it up. 

I have dedicated one saw to square to speed up my learning curve. Touch ups take no more time than round unless the gullet needs cleaned out also.


----------



## brokenbudget (Jan 25, 2010)

046 said:


> at last... a real user of the fabled file guide.... some new info too
> 
> what's this about requiring the "right chains" for this guide to work properly? have not read every post in this thread... must have missed this bit of info.
> 
> ...



i'm running mostly 72 dp and 72 lpx. the dp doesn't really get the proper top angle (it comes out straight). the lpx can be done with a bit of fooling but i'm waiting on the lgx to get here.


----------



## J.W Younger (Jan 25, 2010)

brokenbudget said:


> i'm running mostly 72 dp and 72 lpx. the dp doesn't really get the proper top angle (it comes out straight). the lpx can be done with a bit of fooling but i'm waiting on the lgx to get here.


I thought dp was semi chisel??how you gonna square file semi chisel?


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 25, 2010)

What I ordered to try was 72CL.

Ian


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 25, 2010)

Hello Ian.

I'm interested to see if you like guide, and if it worth the big price tag. I've done some freehand square filing with pretty good results, but I wore out a good dozen of files learning.lol


----------



## J.W Younger (Jan 25, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Hello Ian.
> 
> I'm interested to see if you like guide, and if it worth the big price tag. I've done some freehand square filing with pretty good results, but I wore out a good dozen of files learning.lol


I'm half way there from a dozen box. H ave you checked in to having them re-sharpened?


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jan 25, 2010)

I was just reading about dunking them in muratic acid to sharpen them. Don't know how effective that is.

Ian


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 25, 2010)

Files are cut, not sharpened. I think it is impossible to re cut them after they're tempered.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 25, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I was just reading about dunking them in muratic acid to sharpen them. Don't know how effective that is.
> 
> Ian



Acid does help clean them up, and they do work better after a few minutes in an acid bath, but not like a new file.


----------



## J.W Younger (Jan 25, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Files are cut, not sharpened. I think it is impossible to re cut them after they're tempered.


You may be right in fact I know you are, but I was just going by what it said on the save edge box about saving money and having them resharpened.
Anyway they still make good raker files after the edges are dull.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 25, 2010)

J.W Younger said:


> Anyway they still make good raker files after the edges are dull.



Yup that what I sue them for now as will.


----------



## brokenbudget (Jan 26, 2010)

J.W Younger said:


> I thought dp was semi chisel??how you gonna square file semi chisel?



re-read the post.


----------



## brncreeper (Jan 27, 2010)

*Finally...*

The Atops are in stock at Bailey's, I ordered mine today!


----------



## wooddog (Jan 27, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Files are cut, not sharpened. I think it is impossible to re cut them after they're tempered.




Ask save edge how they re-sharpen, right in their website, Each file is tested after resharpening. 

Chainsaw Files
Size - Inches	Price - Per File
ANY SIZE	$1.44

http://www.saveedge.com/resharpening.html


----------



## redprospector (Jan 27, 2010)

redprospector said:


> $200 a pop for a file guide huh?
> Maybe I should start a school for square filing. Tuition could be $200 a head, and students wouldn't need to buy a file guide, and when the class was over student's would be able to file all configurations of chisel chain.
> 
> Seriously guy's, the only file guides you need is your left thumb, and your right index finger.
> ...



Ok, due to the overwhelming lack of response................I guess school is out. 

Andy


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Jan 28, 2010)

brncreeper said:


> The Atops are in stock at Bailey's, I ordered mine today!



Remember to clean out the gullets before sharpening, it's better to clean them out to much then to little, it will save the life of square file !!!!
Good luck with your guide


----------



## scotclayshooter (Jan 28, 2010)

redprospector said:


> Ok, due to the overwhelming lack of response................I guess school is out.
> 
> Andy



If you wernt 5000 or so miles away i would take you up on your offer!:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 4, 2010)

Gregg's "test" sharpener arrived today. If it's a test unit, I'm the first one to test it. If anyone wants a different photo of another angle, let me know. I left them a tad big to retain some detail.

It's 3-1/2" long, 1-3/16" deep and 2-7/16" tall. It has 3 allen head set screws on one side and one with a knob on the other to center and secure it to your bar.

The chain is Oregon 72CL as it is from the box. This weekend when I sharpen it, I'll take some after pictures and let you know what I think. 

It's wet mucky weather at the moment, so I won't be able to do any cut tests for a bit.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 4, 2010)

more pics.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 4, 2010)

It looks well made, as it should for the price. The chain also looks top notch, much better than I can do by hand. Let us know how it cuts, videos are always nice.lol


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 4, 2010)

Looks like it works good by the tooth pictured.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 4, 2010)

The chain is the factory grind, before being sharpened by the atop. I will do that this weekend.

It's definitely well built. The side walls are .385 thick, the top strap is .270. The notch in the middle is 2.06 long x .520 deep if that matters.

Ian


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Feb 5, 2010)

Ian remember to clear the gullets real well before you start to file !!
If that is done it gets allot easier to file and you save the "expensive" chisel bit file 
(I know i said this before but i don't think it hurts to mention it again)


----------



## rmihalek (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd like to know how steady the file guide holds the tooth when tightened down. One of the problems I've had over the decades with these "on-bar" filing jigs is that it is difficult to hold the tooth steady when filing.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Feb 5, 2010)

rmihalek said:


> I'd like to know how steady the file guide holds the tooth when tightened down. One of the problems I've had over the decades with these "on-bar" filing jigs is that it is difficult to hold the tooth steady when filing.



You have to tighten the chain until it's really tight and i recommend that you push a scrench or something similar between the bar and chain on the underside of the bar if you do that and set the guide near the tip of the bar the cutters wont shatter when filing.
(at least that's my experience)


----------



## Carlyle (Feb 6, 2010)

Wish I had pictures and i will some day(not much time). I am having trouble getting enough angle on the cutter. I am hitting the jig and shoulder of roller trying to get the line in the tooth to go from outside corner to inside corner. I will have pictures to further explain this. It seems as if i need to index the tooth further out or file into the jig. On a different note, I did cut my thumb pretty good the other day on a tooth. Wife is a Doc and said I should have got sewn up, ("Nothing Duck Tape won't fix!). That was FUN!!!

I will have pictures


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2010)

Maybe in a few days there will be enough people to give a good review of them to say if they are really worth buying or not.


----------



## J.W Younger (Feb 6, 2010)

redprospector said:


> Ok, due to the overwhelming lack of response................I guess school is out.
> 
> Andy


I hear you 
wood like to try the jig but my chains are cutting pretty good and the more practise I get the faster and easier it gets.
Ani't rocked one yet and if I do it may get round filed,being more careful helps but its bound too happen so we'll see.
none of my saws have round chisel on them now, its just square or semi chisel.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Carlyle said:


> I did cut my thumb pretty good the other day on a tooth. Wife is a Doc and said I should have got sewn up



Note to self: Wear gloves.

Ian


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Here ya go. I played around with it this evening for 30 minutes or so. It does work as advertised and if I were wanting to run square chain and not wanting to shell out the bucks for a grinder, this would be a good alternative. 

First thing I did was put the chain in my NT round grinder and used a 325 CBN wheel to take the gullet out. Then I mounted it on the bar, got it tight and mounted the sharpener near the nose like Kipp suggested. The saw was trying to move around on me so I corralled it in with some nails in the bench. It took me about 15 minutes and a couple teeth to get the hang of it but after that it went well. It was a little difficult in the beginning because it changes the angles of the teeth from the factory grind, but after the new angle was established it was smooth filing. I figured out it was easier to keep the file flat on the roller if I pinned it there with my finger while filing. You are supposed to keep the file 90 deg to the roller and if you don't, it knurls it. You can see that in the photos. Keep in mind that this is the first time I have ever tried to file square chain. No experience whatsoever. 

Carlyle, look at the photo of the sharpener from the top. I think this is how it should be indexed. It's possible for the index pins to go between the raker and the tooth instead of behind the tooth. If you do this, you will get the file into the body of the sharpener like you describe.

Is it worth it for a firewood cutter to run square and buy this from a practical standpoint? I guess that's up to the individual.

If anyone wants pictures from a different angle, just let me know. I'm going to finish sharpening the chain and will do a couple short videos as soon as I am able. It will probably be a few weeks.

Ian


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2010)

Looks good. I would like to try one before I buy one. I can do alright freehand, but it isn't very consistent. I'm going to try one more time with a square chain against a round before I give up.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

Looks good Ian. I never had much trouble with the corner or the top plate. The problem I ha was always with the side plate. The side plate should be vertical, or the corner should be sloped slightly forward. How does the side plate look?

BTW thanks for the review and pics.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> How does the side plate look?



I dunno... what do you think? From this angle, it looks like the corner is off, but I think it's an illusion.

Ian


----------



## John Ellison (Feb 6, 2010)

It looks like a well made jig and will be interesting to see what your take is on it. Is it fully adjustable for all of the angles?


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Nope, it's not adjustable at all. The rollers set the angles and they are fixed. I understand that they are offering another set of rollers of a different diameter that offer a steeper, more durable top plate angle. The angle this set of rollers imparts looks very knife like and fragile to me, but having never run square before, I really don't know.

I'll take another pic tomorrow that shows the top plate angle if I can.

Ian


----------



## 046 (Feb 6, 2010)

haywire... nice job on the pic's! 

many thanks for your efforts...


----------



## parrisw (Feb 6, 2010)

Looks good, I want one but the $$$$. I wish I had one to "review":monkey:


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> You are supposed to keep the file 90 deg to the roller and if you don't, it knurls it.
> Ian



I have come up with a fix for this. What it needs is a couple short sections of thick tubing with a set screw that you could slide over the rollers. You would set the file in the tooth, get it lined up at 90 deg and then slide the tubing up to the file and snug the set screw. You would then have a guide for keeping the file straight. The tubing would have to be movable to keep the 90 as your tooth shortens, but as long as your teeth were of fairly uniform of length, you wouldn't need to change it mid loop. The set screw would also need to have a non-marring tip so it wouldn't dimple the roller.

If you wanted to get real fancy, the tubing could have a tool-less screw collet on one end to grip the roller so you wouldn't have a set screw to mar it.

Ian


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Looks good, I want one but the $$$$. I wish I had one to "review":monkey:



This is not mine to keep. I have to send it back to Gregg on my dime. I'm just doing this to give you fellas a better look at it.

Ian


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2010)

It looked like your corner was a little low. That is where it leaves that little beak or knife edge. That is what I do to a lot of mine when hand filing.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

This is the best I could do this afternoon. It's hard to get a good pic of the corner with the light I had.

Ian


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Feb 7, 2010)

When i file a new chain i start with the file set a little low and let i work it's way up until the corners meet up, that works fine for me both with the guide and free handing.
have you been able to do some cutting with the chain ??


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

No, I've got nothing to cut and the weather isn't cooperating. I've got a lot of sharpening to do yet on that chain. I only did about 5 teeth and started taking photos.

Ian


----------



## parrisw (Feb 7, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> This is not mine to keep. I have to send it back to Gregg on my dime. I'm just doing this to give you fellas a better look at it.
> 
> Ian



Yes, I know that. Its not what I implied. I meant I would just like to have one to review as well!! Then I could make my mind up better, to shell out the $$ or not.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

Ah, sometimes meaning is lost in the text. 

Ian


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2010)

Maybe Greg would let you send it to someone else then they send it to someone else before it has to be returned.


----------



## woodyman (Feb 7, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> This is the best I could do this afternoon. It's hard to get a good pic of the corner with the light I had.
> 
> Ian


 I am no expert but that cutter sure looks thin on the top,maybe it's the light and angle.Sure would like to get me one of those.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

woodyman said:


> I am no expert but that cutter sure looks thin on the top,maybe it's the light and angle.Sure would like to get me one of those.



Thin is good


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 8, 2010)

Is that a chain you made Brad? If so you've come a long way.

Ian. Having the corner a little low is far better than too high, or into the top plate. If you get the corner too high the chain won't cut butter.


----------



## Grande Dog (Feb 8, 2010)

Howdy All,
I wouldn't mind having it passed around as long as each person vouches for the person they send it to including shipping issues.
Regards
Gregg


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 8, 2010)

Gregg.. By "vouches" do you mean a monetary guarantee? If I send it to "X", insured for full value with delivery confirmation, and it gets missing by whatever means after delivery, would I then be responsible for replacing it at full cost?

Ian


----------



## brokenbudget (Feb 8, 2010)

probably better off sending it back to bailey's and having the next guy get it from them. that way nobody else gets hit with sombody elses freebee


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 8, 2010)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy All,
> I wouldn't mind having it passed around as long as each person vouches for the person they send it to including shipping issues.
> Regards
> Gregg



Gregg I'd sure like to give this guide a try when Ian's done with it. I understand that sending it out to anyone could cause some issues, I know a test axe went missing a few years back. I'd be more than happy to give you my address and everything so know who I am and where I am lol.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Gregg I'd sure like to give this guide a try when Ian's done with it. I understand that sending it out to anyone could cause some issues, I know a test axe went missing a few years back. I'd be more than happy to give you my address and everything so know who I am and where I am lol.



Sign me up to.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 8, 2010)

ATOP GTG at Andy's house!! (just thought I'd yell that out LOL)

Ian


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 8, 2010)

LOL you're more than welcome Ian, about how far are you from Cincinnati?


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 8, 2010)

Maybe if I make it to a GTG this spring someone will have one to try. I wouldn't mind giving Greg my information to try it out.


----------



## MR4WD (Feb 8, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Sign me up to.



I was thinking the same thing. I'll intercept it either on the way to or from you.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

MR4WD said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I'll intercept it either on the way to or from you.



Sounds good to me!!


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 9, 2010)

Ok, I'm done with it. As soon as I get some guidance from Gregg on how he wants to proceed, we'll get a list together and I'll get it in the mail. Andyshine77 is the first in line.

Ian


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 9, 2010)

Gregg is going to start a thread in the Bailey's forum and the list will be developed there.

Ian


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 9, 2010)

That sounds good maybe I can be second or so since it won't have to go very far that way.


----------



## rmihalek (Feb 9, 2010)

Those angles look good. That's a nice cutter for a first timer! The edges are a bit more fragile (as I experienced last weekend with a rapidly dulling square ground chain in frozen red oak and maple). I'd certainly consider getting one of these if I didn't already have a Silvey Swing Arm...heck, I'm still considering getting one!


----------



## parrisw (Feb 10, 2010)

Dont see a thread there yet? Is there one?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 12, 2010)

I received the Atop guide that Ian sent me. I'll do some filing with it this weekend.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I received the Atop guide that Ian sent me. I'll do some filing with it this weekend.



Where's the list?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 12, 2010)

Not sure but It looks like you're next in line.


----------



## outdoorlivin247 (Feb 12, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Where's the list?



http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=125160


----------

