# Better for milling, 066 or 2100?



## lumberjackchef (Jul 15, 2006)

I have read a lot about 2100's being good milling saws. I already have an 066 but am wondering how they compare in a milling application. Anyone have any experience with both for that purpose? Pros, cons?


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## brian660 (Jul 15, 2006)

my stihls been fine in the wood, I use it with a mini mill to slab off the sides and make the rest of my cuts with an 090 though, i dont think you`ll be dissapointed with its performance.


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## oldsaw (Jul 16, 2006)

I've used an 066, works well. 2100 is getting old, but if you find one really cheap, check on parts availability, then it may be worth a go. I'd go with the 066 due to age/parts availability.

BTW, I run a 3120 on my mill, so I'm not a Stihl addict.

Mark


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## Rail-O-Matic (Jul 16, 2006)

*066 versus 2100, 088, 090*

I have used most saws for milling over the years and I have found the Stihl units to be slightly better for the job, explanation, I have made a blanking plate/chain catcher to replace the side cover on the saws
This lets the dust escape and you get better cooling, the clutches on Huskies are on the opposite side of the chain to a stihl and catch all the dust, where as a stihl clutch is enclosed and protected, both will do the job, but I think the Stihl has the edge, just.

On my 066 mill I have used a 30" bar 3/8 chain, which handles the 25 or so inch capacity,the saw works very well, but any wider than 25"and things get really slow.

My 088 and 2100 mills handles a 36" bar giving around 30" of cut on the mill with ease, sometimes blocks the air filter when getting nearer to the ground though, so I leave the cover off of her, and nip down the filter with a seperate nut.

I know there are special chains and bar combinations you can buy from Logosol, using pico chain, but with all that power and small chains, you nearly
always get problems with breakage, see the reports written in the page of www.procutsawmills.com.

I have had an old Jonsered 111 for years, its a little on the old side but its a great saw for miling, just about unburstable, if I could find another I would snap one up today, she handles 40" no problem, needs an extra oiler tank on the end of the bar though, then its fine.

My home tuned 090 about 20bhp and mill gives a nice easy to handle cut up to 50" with no problems, using a 60" Canon Superbar, needs two guy on her though, wild animal, top saw.

As one of the other member have said, look for a second hand 066 or 088 I would opt for the latter, as she will give you a reserve and won't have to work quite as hard as an 066, happy planking.

Davy.
 
http://www.bagpipeworks.co.uk/rollermatic__railomatic_chain.htm


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## woodshop (Jul 16, 2006)

I too have noticed that when I mill with a Stihl vs a Husky, the sawdust seems to clear better on my Stihl. I guess due to the Stihl having the enclosed out of the way clutch? Unfortunately, biggest Stihl I have right now is MS460 Magnum, which seems to have the power and works fine for 20" or less, but on the big stuff it doesn't. Thus, I use the Husky 395XP with a 36inch bar for most of my milling.


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## poleframer (Jul 16, 2006)

I agree, many pros and cons to each design. I use a log wizard and went from using an 026 to a hva 51 due to the air filtration. I couldnt make it thru a tank with the stihl (really sucked in the barkdust), but the air induction system on the husky hardly clogs at all, with a shroud attached. Anyone use these?


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## carvinmark (Jul 16, 2006)

poleframer said:


> I agree, many pros and cons to each design. I use a log wizard and went from using an 026 to a hva 51 due to the air filtration. I couldnt make it thru a tank with the stihl (really sucked in the barkdust), but the air induction system on the husky hardly clogs at all, with a shroud attached. Anyone use these?


 Got one on a 257 husky and use it all the time.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 16, 2006)

I love my 066's and i also have a 298 which is very similar to the 2100 and i really like it to. I run the big bar on the 298 and a smaller bar on the 066's. works great for me.


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## woodshop (Jul 16, 2006)

poleframer said:


> I agree, many pros and cons to each design. I use a log wizard and went from using an 026 to a hva 51 due to the air filtration. I couldn't make it thru a tank with the stihl (really sucked in the barkdust), but the air induction system on the husky hardly clogs at all, with a shroud attached. Anyone use these?



looked at that log wizard a few times, didn't bite yet. Just not sure the cost and especially the time it takes to use it would be worth it to me in the long run. How effective is it, and how easy is it to use?


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## carvinmark (Jul 16, 2006)

woodshop said:


> looked at that log wizard a few times, didn't bite yet. Just not sure the cost and especially the time it takes to use it would be worth it to me in the long run. How effective is it, and how easy is it to use?


These things really bite fast!!! Poleframer dulls his blades to keep it from taking too much off. They are not hard to use,actually very easy to use.To bad someone near you doesn't have one you could try. They will take bark off so fast,I wish I was close to you. You don't have to designate a saw to it either,Just a bar and chain.You can't loose to much because if you don't like it you can always sell it.Bet if you get one,you keep it.Just my .02
Mark


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## lumberjackchef (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks for all of the useful info guys! I've used my 066 to mill a little and it seems to do a fine job , but I've been thinking of getting the 2100 to run a longer bar than my 36". Never thought of the air injection and clutch placement. That log wizaed looks like it would be great as well. How many cc saw is recommended for that thing? Anyway, all great info to consider before making a purchase. Thanks again.


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## woodshop (Jul 17, 2006)

carvinmark said:


> These things really bite fast!!! Poleframer dulls his blades to keep it from taking too much off. They are not hard to use,actually very easy to use. Mark



OK then, based on what you said, I think when I get back from Colorado in August I'm going to have to get one. As I said in past posts, blades last twice as long on my Ripsaw when I don't go through bark, which is why I usually slab off the sides with my csm first. But for smaller logs, that too wastes wood. If I can get just the bark off those smaller logs, thus saving blades before slicing them up with the Ripsaw it would eventually pay for itself. Of course the REAL reason would be an excuse to get another 60cc class saw. Gosh who wants to change blades, just grab the Log Wizard saw and have at it.


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## Freakingstang (Jul 17, 2006)

lumberjackchef said:


> Thanks for all of the useful info guys! I've used my 066 to mill a little and it seems to do a fine job , but I've been thinking of getting the 2100 to run a longer bar than my 36". Never thought of the air injection and clutch placement. That log wizaed looks like it would be great as well. How many cc saw is recommended for that thing? Anyway, all great info to consider before making a purchase. Thanks again.




If you are running a 36" on a mill or longer.....Go Big or Go home. A 2100 won't have the extra umph your looking for.... Think 084/088 or 3120. Just my .02


-Steve


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 17, 2006)

Im with Steve, an 066 with a 28" bar is all it wants to do in hardwood.


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## smithie55 (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm running a Stihl 650 magnum with a 32" bar, granberg 3/8th-.050 ripping chain and I am pleased with the complete process, the Stihl 650 magnum power to weight ratio works great considering I have to pack everything to the log, up hill. All the sawdust clears from the clutch area. I wouldn't use anything else but Stihl, now.
The only draw back that I have found with the newer saws is that you have to keep the chain speed up, where as with some of the older saws that had alot of torque you could just grunt through, but the saw weighs in at a hefty hefty!!


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## Rail-O-Matic (Jul 18, 2006)

*Saw sizes versus width of cut*

If you are running a 36" on a mill or longer.....Go Big or Go home. A 2100 won't have the extra umph your looking for.... Think 084/088 or 3120. Just my .02, by Freakingstang.

Here are some wise words from someone who knows a thing or two about milling lumber, spot on in what he says.

What we really should be looking at when it comes to capacity, is not the size of bar we are using, but how much capacity, IE in width, any given saw can handle without flooging its guts out, a bigger bar is not nessararily better.

Milling needs about at least 30% more energy or should I say, 30% of what she has got in horses will be wasted overall when milling, of course there are many different types of milling chain for different types of timber, the end result is still the same, in the power stakes.

I have built many mills over the years and here is my 2 peneth worth, all sizes below are a guide only, and will preserve the longevity of any given saw, to gain the best result in boards/feet, you can use any of the following on smaller sectional timber, but its best to stick to the list below for reliability and kindness to the operator, the longer you stand there milling the less you are achieving.

67cc works best on a 24" bar with a cutting capacity of no more than 20"
80cc " " " 30" " " " " " " " 26"
96cc " " " 36" " " " " " " " 30"
111cc " " " 42" " " " " " " " 40"
125cc " " " 48" " " " " " " " 46"
140cc " " " 60" " " " " " " " 56"

All the sizes abouve can still be used on a tree that is wider than the actual max cutting width of the tree, as you can turn the tree when you reach that width, on the larger saws, they can take a little more hump than advised here, but that's down to the individual.
Then there are the double ended saw bars, this is where two smaller saws can take the strain out of the reliability senario, two saws working together have the edge over a big saw that is past its ability, a lot more expensive to outlay, but will pay for themselves much sooner, because the feet/board rario will be better.


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## poleframer (Jul 18, 2006)

carvinmark said:


> These things really bite fast!!! Poleframer dulls his blades to keep it from taking too much off. They are not hard to use,actually very easy to use.To bad someone near you doesn't have one you could try. They will take bark off so fast,I wish I was close to you. You don't have to designate a saw to it either,Just a bar and chain.You can't loose to much because if you don't like it you can always sell it.Bet if you get one,you keep it.Just my .02
> Mark


And man does it throw bark! here are my chaps, have to scrape them down every so often. From what I've read of your posts, you'll use it. I like 50cc saws for it, I dont think you'll need more power, and weight is an issue, because you kind of need to hold the saw up a bit. If you let the tip lay too hard on the log it will want to dig in.
I started milling with a 064, was'nt enough (85cc I think), my 090 is. The 090 is dedicated to the mill and the 064 drops anything I need to. I'd suggest finding something in the 120cc class for your mill, use the 066 for dropping.


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## lumberjackchef (Jul 18, 2006)

I have been pleased with my 066 when it comes to milling smaller stuff. But If I were to mill anything larger than what my existing mill (30"cut) will accomodate , I could definately see the advantage to haveing more cc's. This particular 066 was was purchased from ebay and had the top end rebuilt before I purchased it. The guy who did the work said that it had been modified when it was new, apparently by the shop that had sold it, and that they had done a great job to boot. After I got it I dual ported the muffler and it seems to run really good. I milled some 2.5" x 40" x 8.5' with this saw and it did a fine job, but the cuts averaged 11-14 minutes for each slab. My problem is that I have nothing to compare the time of these cuts to. The saw cut fine as long as the chain was sharp and we didn't try to push it to fast. It's obvious that a larger displacement saw would not be under as much strain as an 066 but when looking at the time of each cut I thought that it had done a fairly good job for the size of the saw. I had been thinking of buying an 088 for milling the larger stuff and using the 066 for the smaller things. Thanks a lot for all of the great posts by the way. I really appreciate everyones honest input. And here's a couple of pic of that pin oak...


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## Rail-O-Matic (Jul 18, 2006)

*3120*

3120 owners should know the following, I once seized on of these beasts whilst milling, reason why, because whilst working on a huge log, the saw was right up to the log, which caused the exhaust fumes to bounce off of the log and back into the carb, making her run weaker.

No harm done though as I stopped her in good time, it was just like she was starting to run out of gas, but got progressively slower instead of reving up as normal, once I fiited a deflector she cut like crazy, I got her new at the same time as a second hand Sred 111.
A good saw to consider is the older Sred 111, these are really good, I have had one for over 15 years, never missed a beat, apart from a bar oil blockage.

090 is my faviorite saw 137cc's of raw power, they can be tuned easily up to 16 horses without compromising on reliability, I contacted Stihl a while back to ask if they had any 090's left for sale, no was the answer, they said they have a few but are keeping them for their museum peices.

Just started building a twin outfit, using a Cannon double ended bar, I had managed to get two old Stihl 074's, from my freind who has a lawn mower repair business, they were just lying under the work bench, I got them both in bits, a few new parts later and new home turned heavy duty cluch housings, they are both now in in top running condition, they don't look as good on the outside though, but who cares as long as they buzz.

Just had a try today of the big Dolmar or Makita as they are now called, she was quite impressive, a long stroke motor like the Sred 111, should make for a good medium sized milling outfit , gonna have to buy one to try one out though, the wifes boss won't let her out of his sight, dam nice try though.


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## casey v (Jul 18, 2006)

Based upon what Rail- o- matic has specified as far a saw displacement and width of cuts. It appears that a rule of thumb to be drawn from this is that 3cc per inch of width is minimum:biggrinbounce2: while using the shortest bar possible. So as an example, if you need to mill a 25in wide slab, the minimum saw size is 75cc.
Does this work? What do you think?

Mike:biggrinbounce2:


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 18, 2006)

One needs to take into consideration whats being milled. An 066 might only be able to mill 22" of hardwood at a decent pace, but could probably take much more cut in softwood. 

For instance, with a 28" bar in my GB mill, I get 22" of cut. In White Oak, taking a 14" wide slab is about all it really wants. But taking a full 22" in Cottonwood is no problem. I realize Cottonwood isnt really a soft wood, but its softer than White Oak!!


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## oldsaw (Jul 18, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> One needs to take into consideration whats being milled. An 066 might only be able to mill 22" of hardwood at a decent pace, but could probably take much more cut in softwood.
> 
> For instance, with a 28" bar in my GB mill, I get 22" of cut. In White Oak, taking a 14" wide slab is about all it really wants. But taking a full 22" in Cottonwood is no problem. I realize Cottonwood isnt really a soft wood, but its softer than White Oak!!



I can buy that. My 066 is just fine in 18-22" of oak, at 30"+ I've got to watch the feed rate at the wider widths, but the saw does fine. I can push the 3120 quite a bit harder, where it starts to bog, the 066 would have stalled. I run a 42" bar, and can go the full 36" on my Alaskan...and have on numerous occasions. Yep, I've got some big cottonwoods to get when the weather tames a bit.

Mark


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## poleframer (Jul 18, 2006)

2nd that! I think my favorite word these days is "context". So many discussions try to apply answers out of context.
I mostly work with Doug Fir,Sugar&Pondo Pine and Incense Cedar- pretty fast milling. My setup prolly wouldnt work for those who deal with harder, and heavier wood.
Russell


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Jul 19, 2006)

Mr. Rail-o-matic,

What is your experience with double ended mills? Most of what I have read from users, not manufacturers, argues that the gains you get from the second power head are negligible. 

What say you?


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## brian660 (Jul 19, 2006)

unless both powerheads are spinning damn close to the same rpm and making the same amount of power I don`t think their worth much if anymore speed through the wood, the slower saw will just suck up the power from the better running saw.


I only use my stihls for milling (090 on the gb and 660 on the mini mill) the huskies while great saws dont seem to be as great when it comes to milling, that and I got the 3120 and 395 in such great condition for so few dollars i`d like to sell em.


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## Rail-O-Matic (Jul 19, 2006)

biggrinbounce2: wrote:

Based upon what Rail-O-matic has specified as far a saw displacement and width of cuts. It appears that a rule of thumb to be drawn from this is that 3cc per inch of width is minimum, while using the shortest bar possible. So as an example, if you need to mill a 25in wide slab, the minimum saw size is 75cc.
Does this work? What do you think?


Yes you have it, If you use a bigger bar than the manufacturer recommends, then the saw will endure stresses that it was not designed to encounter, and that is for normal use, add another 30% of stress, which is about what you get when milling, and the answer is a saw that will wear out before its time.

The guide will give you a happy medium, you will get a faster cut and better fuel economy, in the picture with my dog on top of the stack, I managed to cut this 30" X 12' long ash, using Roller-Matic 088, 36" bar, giving a 28" width of cut, using only 5 litres of gas/oil, I have cut the same kind of tree using my 066 and she used nearky twice as much fuel and it took about an hour longer, heaven knows how the saw felt afterwards.

www.bagpipeworks.co.uk/rollermatic__railomatic_chain.htm


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Jul 19, 2006)

brian660 said:


> unless both powerheads are spinning damn close to the same rpm and making the same amount of power I don`t think their worth much if anymore speed through the wood, the slower saw will just suck up the power from the better running saw.
> .



This is what I have found to be the majority opinion but I have no experience with double enders myself. I DO know that my 084 runs a 72" bar with no problem provided everything is working properly. It seems to me all the extra expense and effort involved in the second powerhead is pointless. But that's just my opinion at this point.


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## carvinmark (Jul 19, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> This is what I have found to be the majority opinion but I have no experience with double enders myself. I DO know that my 084 runs a 72" bar with no problem provided everything is working properly. It seems to me all the extra expense and effort involved in the second powerhead is pointless. But that's just my opinion at this point.


WOW!!!!! 72" bar on your 084. I can't wait till I get my 084, I'm planning on running a 42" bar on my mill, should kick some azz.


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## t_andersen (Jul 19, 2006)

brian660 said:


> unless both powerheads are spinning damn close to the same rpm and making the same amount of power I don`t think their worth much if anymore speed through the wood, the slower saw will just suck up the power from the better running saw.



Maybe all that is needed is single a powerful 084 or 088. I hope so, because I just got a 084 for milling  

However, I respectfully tend to disagree with Brian. To my opinion one motor will normally not slow down the other one. Firstly, they will by definition run synchroneously as soon as the clutches are engaged and that will happen when the operators pull the triggers. Secondly, gasoline motors are not fixed-displacement motors such as, for instance, hydraulic motors, so you essentially control the torque by activating the throttle. Two motors will therefore run nicely together even if one motor carries 60% and the other 40% of the total torque.


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## Rail-O-Matic (Jul 19, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> This is what I have found to be the majority opinion but I have no experience with double enders myself. I DO know that my 084 runs a 72" bar with no problem provided everything is working properly. It seems to me all the extra expense and effort involved in the second powerhead is pointless. But that's just my opinion at this point.



As I mentioned earlier the bigger saws will take a bit more hump, but the bigger you go the slower things get until the board/feet bar enconomy becomes much less.
On the double enders, I have made a couple of 60 inchers before, running two Dolmar 90cc motors, the cost for two of these in GB is about the same as an MS880, but the advantage is much better than a big Stihl on its own running a 74" or bigger, the modern Dolmar's are very tough saws, and up for the job, much better than the older Stihls 074 etc.
Another advantage for the bouble ganger is, both operators have anti vibe on each end, and each motor helps each other, there is no roller nose to drag things down and you have double the bar oiling, everything helps each other, once you have used a double unit, you would want one for yourself.


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## Rail-O-Matic (Jul 20, 2006)

t_andersen said:


> Maybe all that is needed is single a powerful 084 or 088. I hope so, because I just got a 084 for milling
> 
> However, I respectfully tend to disagree with Brian. To my opinion one motor will normally not slow down the other one. Firstly, they will by definition run synchroneously as soon as the clutches are engaged and that will happen when the operators pull the triggers. Secondly, gasoline motors are not fixed-displacement motors such as, for instance, hydraulic motors, so you essentially control the torque by activating the throttle. Two motors will therefore run nicely together even if one motor carries 60% and the other 40% of the total torque.



One motor will not slow down the other because they are both fitted with a centrifugal clutch, once as you get started into the log, by using only one saw to stat with, the chain simple runs around the other one's cluch which is sitting waiting at tick over, then when you bring the other saw on line, you soon get a feel for where the second saw needs to be in relation to the other, there is no power loss between them, its like riding a bike, you soon get the hang of things.
I can say with confidence and through experience, a twin out fit with two higher end sized motors like the two Dolmar 90cc units I mentioned earlier, are much much better at milling than an MS880 Magnum working at its limit,
Its a 180cc versus a 120cc, with twice the oiling which also makes a really big diference to the chain speed when you are biting into the log, as the very small sawdust that is produced, tends to sap the energy away.

If you feel the bar when cutting really big stuff and compare the two, the single will be slightly hotter because of the added friction produced, this is why a few people fit an extra oil tank on the end of their mills, at at the end of the day, the twin outfit will have the most feet board, with only a small increase in fuel and oil costs, and much happier saws.


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