# Granberg File-N-Joint, Revisited



## Philbert (Feb 15, 2012)

_*Note: The original images in this thread were lost. I will try to add some back which are as close as possible . I cannot add photos back to other people's posts*_

When I first started to sharpen my own chains I bought an Oregon, bar-mounted, filing guide (model 23736A). This was the 'professional' model; made in Italy, retailed for about $40, and had more metal parts than the model sold in home centers (model 23820) for about half that cost.




The instructions were not that clear. It was clumsy to mount on the bar. It was slow. But it gave me _GREAT_ results; nearly perfect cutters that were razor sharp. It also helped me to understand filing, and how to use a conventional file holder for touch-ups in the field.

After I got a grinder, I sold that filing guide on Craig'sList.

A thread on the Timberline chain sharpener < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm > got me thinking about this again. I had a dozen chains to sharpen for a variety of saws, and 'talked myself into' the idea that it would be nice to have a sharpener that I could use in the house without generating a lot of noise or dust. Several A.S. members had posted in threads that they thought that the Granberg Fie-N-Joint was better than the Oregon, so when Bailey's had a sale and promo that brought it down below $22 I ordered one.




The package proudly stated that it was 'Made in USA', but the edges of die-cast pieces were rough and uneven, and there were several sharp corners on castings and even the thumb screws. I disassembled it, and spent about a half hour filing, grinding, and buffing the rough edges and corners smooth. I mounted the Granberg on scrap guide bars held in a vise, as I did my Oregon, so that I did not have to mount each chain on a saw (and because I did not have all the saws there!). I filed the depth gauges by hand.

Again, the provided instructions were poor (a YouTube video was much better). Again, it was kind of awkward to position and mount on the bar. Again, it was slow. Again, I got _GREAT_ results.

I don't know if the older Granbergs were of higher quality, and I don't have my old Oregon to compare side by side. But this one does not appear like it will hold up to extended use.

Out of curiosity, I checked out one of the cheaper Oregon guides at a local home center. They had one left marked 'Made in Italy'; the newer stock was labled 'Made in China'. The Italian and Chinese gauges looked nearly identical, except for the fasteners (thumb screws, screw, nuts) which visually appeared to be of lower quality finish on the Chinese model. They both probably work OK.




I have not tried the Timberline sharpener, although, it has generally received very positive reviews here on A.S. I bought the Granberg because it was $100 cheaper, and because it used commonly available files.

In summary, each of these Oregon or Granberg style sharpening guides would be good for someone new to sharpening; for someone who wants to get very precise and consistent edges; for someone who has some time to spend sharpening; and for someone who does not have a large number of chains to sharpen.

They adjust for consistent filing angle, file tilt, file height, and depth of cut. As a practical matter, you still have to learn how to push the file in a straight line, and to count strokes.

I could not get cutters this consistent by free hand filing, or using a simple file holder and one of the scrap bars. I have multiple chains per saw, and do not wnat to have to mount each one in the saw to sharpen. These Granberg and Oregon holders have a spring metal dog to help keep the cutters from sliding backward, and small guides on each side of the chain to help hold it down by clamping above the rivets. A good filing vise that securely clamps the chain might be able to provide the same benefit for those who are more comfortable maintaining consistent file angles.

Philbert


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## alderman (Feb 15, 2012)

i used one of my Grandbergs this afternoon. With this available, I don't know if I will ever try free hand. They work well for me.

In my opinion, better than the Oregon brand but I got mine several years ago and I don't know how well they are making them now.


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

I sharpen all my chains with my Granberg FnJ, and have for 5 years. I love it. Just like you said, dont be in a hurry, and it provides great results. It is the only way I sharpen chains, and I have sharpened hundreds with that thing. I grease the slide once in a while.


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## jus2fat (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I sharpen all my chains with my Granberg FnJ, and have for 5 years. I love it. Just like you said, dont be in a hurry, and it provides great results. It is the only way I sharpen chains, and I have sharpened hundreds with that thing. I grease the slide once in a while.


+1...a super good product...imho..!!

That's the way I do it 90% of the time..!!

J2F


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## nixon (Feb 15, 2012)

I've got a Timberline ,and it works well . But, I'm tempted to buy a Granberg because I think they can fine tune some angles better . That assumption could be wrong . But then CAD goes deep . It even affects the tools We buy . Heck, I'm even tempted to buy a Silvey grinderwith ABN . Does this crap ever stop
????


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## madhatte (Feb 15, 2012)

My Granberg has been good to me. Even figured out how to rig it to file square. Not sure how old it is but the build quality is excellent. If yours is not-so-good, maybe buy an older one off of the 'Bay.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 15, 2012)

madhatte said:


> My Granberg has been good to me. *Even figured out how to rig it to file square.* Not sure how old it is but the build quality is excellent. If yours is not-so-good, maybe buy an older one off of the 'Bay.



This was one of my questions I was thinking about asking!


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## M-tooth (Feb 15, 2012)

Philbert said:


> They adjust for consistent filing angle, file tilt, file height, and depth of cut. As a practical matter, you still have to learn how to push the file in a straight line, and to count strokes.



Not sure on yours, but on my italian oregon model you can adjust it so that the cutters are all filed back to the same length..I.E. no counting strokes, and also you can rig it with a flat file to do rakers all at the same depth....works if all your teeth are the same length. These things work great and I am a firm believer that you get a much better edge with one of these than a grinder. I usually touch up my new chains right out of the box too.


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## CTYank (Feb 16, 2012)

M-tooth said:


> Not sure on yours, but on my italian oregon model you can adjust it so that the cutters are all filed back to the same length..I.E. no counting strokes, and also you can rig it with a flat file to do rakers all at the same depth....works if all your teeth are the same length. These things work great and I am a firm believer that you get a much better edge with one of these than a grinder. I usually touch up my new chains right out of the box too.



You can do the equal length thing with the Granberg, but let me say I NEVER have, not in 35+ years. It'd be a waste of time IMHO. Generally, I set it up on the bar in a couple of casual minutes, give the cutters 2 strokes on one side, then do the other the same. Pretty easy counting to two. :biggrin:

What I'm alleging is that its easy enough to set up to get precise repeatable results, that you can minimize metal removal. Seems I get pretty good chain lifetime with it. :msp_thumbup:

Philbert says it's slow and cumbersome to mount. Not IMHO. It may be tricky to lock in position on bar, if the bar has teflon coating like the one that came with my Husqy. Very low friction coefficient.


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## sawnami (Feb 16, 2012)

I tried to use my newer File-N-Joint on my 1/2" chain and found out that the cutters wouldn't pass through it. I dug out the old McCulloch branded File-N-Joint that came in a kit with an old McCulloch 33 that I bought several years ago. It worked fine with the 1/2" chain. It also has a better finish and hardware. The wing nuts on the old one are easier to grip than the thumb screws on the newer one that I have. The swivel guide on the old one has a felt wick in the center of it that you oil to keep lubrication on the upper rod.


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

M-tooth said:


> Not sure on yours, but on my italian oregon model you can adjust it so that the cutters are all filed back to the same length.



You can on the Granberg just received. However, as CTYank noted, an extra step that may not be needed. Even when I count strokes and try to maintain even pressure, I will sometimes give one cutter an extra stroke or 2 if it did not feel like the file passed through as smoothly as on the other cutters. I guess that this might be a trade off for a consistent edge at the expense of slightly different length cutters?



sawnami said:


> I dug out the old McCulloch branded File-N-Joint that came in a kit with an old McCulloch 33 that I bought several years ago.



THAT looks like a _much_ higher quality tool than the current Granberg File-N-Joint, and the kind that I would like to find at a garage sale, Craig's List, etc.!!! Is that what the old Granbergs look like? Anybody got one they are willing to part with?

There is also a STIHL version shown in their catalog, and a bench mount version. The bench mount version was listed at over $200 when I tried to get a price.

Philbert


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## cutforfun (Feb 16, 2012)

I got the Stihl bench mounted guide for xmas, works great. I had been using a old Oregon brand jig, much better built than the new models. I still use it if I dont feel like pulling the bar and chain. The bench mounted version is very nice to use and is alot better built than anything else I have seen(179.99 @ dealer)


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## timmcat (Feb 16, 2012)

I have found the casting and fit and finish to be a little lacking from Granberg. My alaskan mill was a mess with casting flash when I got it. A couple of the welds needed a redo as well.


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## sawnami (Feb 16, 2012)

I found the original instruction sheet for that old McCulloch File-N-Joint. It's a 1958 model.


Sent by fumbling around with those tiny keys on my phone


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

sawnami said:


> I found the original instruction sheet for that old McCulloch File-N-Joint. It's a 1958 model.



Maybe that is why I find it so appealing - I am from a similar model year !

Interesting that yours says 'Made in USA by Nygran Ind.' Wonder if that was a related company, or if it was made by someone else first. The Granberg website clearly implies that they invented it.



> "Designed by Elof Granberg over 50 years ago, the File-n-Joint still sets the industry standard for accuracy and durability. Sharpen cross cut chain and ripping chain to factory specs."



Philbert


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## SteveH (Feb 16, 2012)

I bought my Granberg probably back in the late 70s. Probably. Been using it ever since, though I also have, now, a Maxx grinder. The Granberg is cast metal, for sure, and no hi-tech precision tool. However, with decades of use, I have had nothing on it wear out and it's done hundreds and hundreds of sharpenings. I now use it for a half-dozen filings or so, then run the chains through the Maxx. 

I've never used any of the similar competitors, so don't know how the Granberg compares. Nor have I seen one any newer than maybe 30 yr. old, so don't know if the more recent ones are lower quality. My BIL bought a new one two yr. ago, I haven't seen it but he says it works great and no problems. And they are definitely worth the price, which is still quite reasonable.

As a couple other posters have said, I don't bother with the cutter-length option. I did at first, then I decided it was completely unnecessary.


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## half_full (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm pretty much a newbie but I like to throw my retirement money away while I'm still young.
So, I bought the Granberg last year. I was using the dremel with the little jig and it worked just OK.
Granberg does a great job. No question about it.
I recently bought the Timberline. It works great too. Faster material removal than the file. I'm working through a load of logs now that I was told "might have a few nails". I could see 2X4 steps up all main trunk pieces :msp_mad:
So, the faster material removal is important to me now (3 nails so far).
I haven't used the Granberg since but I'd never get rid of it.

Summary 
Granberg - time tested design, file availability, adjust ability, price
Timberline - faster, good easy to set tooth stop, compact

Just my opinion...


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

half_full said:


> I'm pretty much a newbie but I like to throw my retirement money away while I'm still young.



Great to have the side-by-side comparison perspective. Thanks! The bottom line is to find a method that works for you. You might even decide to use your Dremel to hog away at a rocked chain, then finish the edge with the Granberg or Timberline.

As long as you are throwing away some of your retirement money, maybe you want to pick up a metal detector as well? These are sold through a lot of woodworking catalogs and websites, and some of the more powerful ones will work on logs, depending upon the diameter, dryness, etc. These can be helpful, especially if you have an idea where to look.

Philbert


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## half_full (Feb 16, 2012)

Philbert said:


> As long as you are throwing away some of your retirement money, maybe you want to pick up a metal detector as well? These are sold through a lot of woodworking catalogs and websites, and some of the more powerful ones will work on logs, depending upon the diameter, dryness, etc. These can be helpful, especially if you have an idea where to look.
> 
> Philbert


Good idea. I've always wanted one. My house is an old farm house built in 1890. I find something every time I dig a hole for a post or to plant a tree. I'm sure I'll get as rich as those guys on TV.


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

half_full said:


> Good idea. I've always wanted one. My house is an old farm house built in 1890. I find something every time I dig a hole for a post or to plant a tree. I'm sure I'll get as rich as those guys on TV.



Don't want to get too off topic here, but I was thinking more of this type ($150 - $170) - not sure if it will help you find buried treasure! Not sure if the treasure finders will help you find nails in wood either, but if you know someone that has one, you might want to try it out.

Philbert


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## Brian VT (Feb 16, 2012)

I got the Oregon one with plastic and didn't have very good luck with it.
I got a Granberg at a junk shop and it works absolutely great !
I recently stumbled on a Silvey grinder and that is much quicker and more convenient and does a great job.

I think I'll leave this one as is, hanging with my Homelite collection. :smile2:






View attachment 224345


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

Brian VT said:


> I think I'll leave this one as is, hanging with my Homelite collection.



That Homelite one looks _exactly_ like my Granberg. What does it look like, side-by-side with yours?

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 17, 2012)

M-tooth said:


> Not sure on yours, but on my italian oregon model you can adjust it so that the cutters are all filed back to the same length.



M-tooth I owe you an apology on this point. I responded that counting strokes will provide you with cutters of the same length. But that assumes that you started with cutters the same length! Tonight, I was filing an older chain that I got from someone, and realized that that feature could help you 'true up' a chain that had been more casually sharpened, without using some type of measuring device (micrometer, ruler/scale, etc.).

The Granberg I recently purchased has this feature; it is a cheap, plastic nut that rubs against the square, middle rail. I am not sure how accurate it would be, but it could be of use with a chain that has cutter lengths all over the place.



madhatte said:


> If yours is not-so-good, maybe buy an older one off of the 'Bay.



Madhatte - I tried your advice and scanned my local Craig'sList and eBay. Something interesting was a significant design difference (see photo) between some of the older models and the current model, and from the model that Sawnami a photo of in Post #10.




There were several models that looked like this one. Aside from the materials used and the quality of the finish, note how the one in far left of this photo (actually an Oregon model) has a much smaller base casting. It is missing the adjustable guides/cleats on each side that clamp above the rivets to stabilize the chain, and to keep the chain from rising up, out of the bar groove.

Note the name change from 'File-N-Guide' to 'File-N-Joint'.

Do any of you guys with the older model Granbergs have ones like this? Do you have any problems with the chains moving or rising up when filing?

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 17, 2012)

*Make Your Own!*

Detailed drawings from patent applications:

Apparatus for filing and jointing saw chains

Saw sharpening apparatus

(Apparently Granberg and Nygran Industries were related in some way).

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 18, 2012)

*Photos From the First Post*

_(Some original photos disappeared. Some of these have been replaced now that we have longer editing rights to our our posts)._

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 2, 2012)

Well, I poked around Craig'sList and e-Bay for a few weeks. 

I found a lot of Granbergs that looked like the new ones, but usually for more $ (thanks). Some of these were labeled 'vintage'. I found a bunch that looked like the one in Post #23, without the chain hold-down cleats on the side ('File-N-Guide' vs 'File-N-Joint'), which I think is an important feature. I found several of the cheaper Oregon models, again, for much more than I can find them at local stores (thanks again).

Finally found one of the older models, similar to Sawnami's in Post #10, but not as nice, that would have been about $26 shipped. Almost bought it, but it was hard to tell what condition it was in from the photo. Then found the 'better' Oregon one (23736A Professional Bar-Mount Filing Guide) on sale for $35 shipped and ordered that one.

I think that I will try to add some metal stiffener to the plastic frames on this one, and keep my eyes open for a STIHL at a garage sale!

Philbert


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 3, 2012)

Philbert said:


> Well, I poked around Craig'sList and e-Bay for a few weeks.
> 
> I found a lot of Granbergs that looked like the new ones, but usually for more $ (thanks). Some of these were labeled 'vintage'. I found a bunch that looked like the one in Post #23, without the chain hold-down cleats on the side ('File-N-Guide' vs 'File-N-Joint'), which I think is an important feature. I found several of the cheaper Oregon models, again, for much more than I can find them at local stores (thanks again).
> 
> ...


 
Is this the better Oregon guide?View attachment 227208


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## Brian VT (Mar 3, 2012)

Philbert said:


> That Homelite one looks _exactly_ like my Granberg. What does it look like, side-by-side with yours?
> 
> Philbert


Yup. The same.


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## KodiakII (Mar 3, 2012)

Has anyone tried the Timberline sharpener yet? It looks really high quality and less fiddly than those others.
Timberline Chainsaw Sharpener | Timberline Chainsaw Sharpener

View attachment 227203


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## Philbert (Mar 3, 2012)

RYNOMAGNUM said:


> Is this the better Oregon guide?



Sorry Rynomagnum, your link did not work. The 'better' Oregon is the model 23736A '_Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide_', made in Italy, and shown in the top photo of Post#25, above. The 'economy' Oregon is the model 23820 '_Sure Sharp Chain Saw Manual Filing/Sharpening Guide_', formerly made in Italy, now made in China, and shown in the bottom photo of the same post.

These appear to be made by Tecomec as their 'De Luxe' and 'Super Rapid' models, respectively.

Since starting this quest, I have found versions of the Granberg filing guide with a Sears nameplate, and other variations with different saw manufacturers names on them. There is also a European variation floating around e-Bay that looks like a hybrid - Granberg body with plastic top from economy Oregon/Tecomec model.

Thee is also a GB bar mounted chain filing guide floating around e-Bay that I had not seen before, but it did not seem to work with .325 chain, or ignored it. Said it works with 3/8, Low Profile, and .404 chain (?) Maybe this is a misprint and why it did not sell so well?

One of the things I really like about these Granberg/Oregon type guides is that they are not chain or saw specific. They work with commonly available, inexpensive files, and don't care who manufactured the chain; whether it is full comp, skip tooth, or semi skip; full or semi chisel cutters; whether or not the chain is low kickback; etc. Some filing products work very well with certain types of chains only, which is fine if it works with what you use. But you need a collection of them to cover a variety of chains.




KodiakII said:


> Has anyone tried the Timberline sharpener yet? It looks really high quality and less fiddly than those others.



Whole thread on that: < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm > Has 22 pages as of today! 

Philbert


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## nick 55 (Mar 3, 2012)

There is an entire thread devoted to the Timberline here: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm

Most that own it(including meyself), are very impressed with how it sharpens, it's size(therefore portability), and it's ease of use. It does take a little bit of time using it for the first time, but once you figure out how it works, it does very well.

I bought mine after using my Mother-in-law's Oregon version of this File'n'joint on her chains the local shop "sharpened" for her. Every cutter was a different length, some nearly to the guide line, after 2 sharpening. I believe it was their cheaper version but I couldn't get it to work well. I attribute it mostly to the crazy grind job on her chains but it led me to look for other ways of sharpening without a grinder.

Nick


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## Brian VT (Mar 3, 2012)

Philbert said:


> One of the things I really like about these Granberg/Oregon type guides is that they are not chain or saw specific. They work with commonly available, inexpensive files, and don't care who manufactured the chain; whether it is full comp, skip tooth, or semi skip; full or semi chisel cutters; whether or not the chain is low kickback; etc.
> Philbert


I think I even remember reading on here about someone modifying one for square ground.


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## nick 55 (Mar 3, 2012)

Philbert; said:


> Whole thread on that: < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm > Has 22 pages as of today!
> 
> Philbert



Man, you beat me to it! I'm typing slow today.

Nick


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 3, 2012)

Philbert said:


> Sorry Rynomagnum, your link did not work. The 'better' Oregon is the model 23736A '_Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide_', made in Italy, and shown in the top photo of Post#25, above. The 'economy' Oregon is the model 23820 '_Sure Sharp Chain Saw Manual Filing/Sharpening Guide_', formerly made in Italy, now made in China, and shown in the bottom photo of the same post.
> 
> These appear to be made by Tecomec as their 'De Luxe' and 'Super Rapid' models, respectively.
> 
> ...


 Maybe this time it will work? View attachment 227212

I don't know which one this is? I've had it for a while.


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## Philbert (Mar 3, 2012)

Brian VT said:


> I think I even remember reading on here about someone modifying one for square ground.



This thread: < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/69509.htm >

Check out photos in Posts#4 and #29

I want a conversion kit and I don't even have any square ground chain!

But those photos also show how replacing the file clamping bars on the Tecomec/Oregon guides could stiffen it up. Current 'Pro' models retails for around $40. I am sure they could sell one for $75 if it also files square ground chain. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 3, 2012)

RYNOMAGNUM said:


> I don't know which one this is? I've had it for a while.



The models may have changed a bit through the years, but that appears to be the 'Pro' (better model). Even though it still uses plastic file clamps, and has the molded plastic top cap that the guide bar slides through, some of the advantages that the 'Pro' model has over the 'Sure Sharp':

- the pivoting head with the indexing marks (the middle casting) is made of metal instead of plastic; 

- larger side clamps to grasp the chains, hold them steady, and to keep them from rising up;

- adjustable piece of flat, spring steel to position the cutter (via wing nut or thumb screw at the rear): this, in turn give you more options for the positioning of the file when sharpening.

Philbert


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 3, 2012)

Philbert said:


> The models may have changed a bit through the years, but that appears to be the 'Pro' (better model). Even though it still uses plastic file clamps, and has the molded plastic top cap that the guide bar slides through, some of the advantages that the 'Pro' model has over the 'Sure Sharp':
> 
> - the pivoting head with the indexing marks (the middle casting) is made of metal instead of plastic;
> 
> ...


 Cool. Was just curious. Thanks for the reply!


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## Philbert (Mar 25, 2012)

*Some Side-By-Side Comparisons*

Picked up a few of the older Grandberg type sharpeners on eBay, and two new Oregon versions. Here is what I learned, comparing them side-by-side.

- The quality of the castings and finish on the older models, both brands, definitely feels better. Although, there was still some 'flash' on the older ones I saw. The bases on the Oregon models were all painted and well finished, but the metal file frames on the old model were very similar to the old Granbergs. These guides, apparently, were never sold as high precision/highly finished products.

- There is obviouslty common parentage here, with some made by Nygran / Granberg here in the USA; and some made in Italy (by Tecomec ?) for Oregon and others. The current Oregon models are made in China. Granberg models were also sold with McCulloch and Sears Robucks labels. There are several other versions and variations out there with French and other labels. I have not seen the STIHL branded versions.

- Some earlier models (e.g. 'File-N-_Guide_') have a shorter base, and a small metal strip that aligns with the bar (Photo in Post #23). Later models (e.g. 'File-N-_Joint_') have the longer base and side clamps to help stablilze and hold down the chain when filing, which I like.

- The older models were significantly larger, which may be why sawnami could use his older model on his 1/2" cutters (Post #10). Thumb screws/wingnuts are easier to reach on the larger models: this could be a big issue for guys with thick fingers - otherwise they will have to use needle-nosed pliers to adjust them. I saw one guys' review where he suggested that the smaller format models were 'better' because they flexed less. The side-by-side photos really show the size difference.




*Granberg G104B / McCulloch 61034, and Granberg G106B*




*Old Oregon, Oregon Professional/Dura Max 2376A, Oregon Sure Sharp 23820*

The 'old' Granberg, Old Oregon, and Oregon Professional model are all approximately the same size. The New Granberg and the Oregon Sure Sharp are approximately the same size.

*Feature differences:*

- The amount of plastic varies. I think that the top cap being plastic is OK, as this helps the bar slide. Angle markings molded into the plastic caps were also easier to read. When the 'middle pieces' (Oregon Sure Sharp) is plastic, there is too much play in the guide. Comparing them side-by-side, I think that the plastic file holding frames are OK, especially on the smaller frames.

- Some models have sliding tangs to position the cutters; other have fixed tangs. The sliding tang is a nice feature.

- Earlier models had 2-piece base castings, later ones are single piece castings.

- There have been a variety of hand grips; some built-in, some use basic file handles.

*Conclusions*

If I had to buy one new today, I would pick the Granberg, dissassemble it, clean up all of the castings, and hope that it held up. I have seen these priced anywhere between $23 and $59 for the same model (plus shipping, sales tax, etc., as those apply).

I like the finish better on the Oregon models, but the Professional one kept slipping on me (my old one did not) and the Sure Sharp flexed too much. These are problems that could easily be solved by adding a second wing nut on the Pro model, and cast metal middle pieces on the SureSharp. They are both being returned.

It is too bad that a better quality version of these is not widely available. Again, I have not seen the STIHL, but it should not have to cost 5 to 10 times as much to make a better quality product.

Used models are available on eBay, Craig'sList , etc. I have seen used Granbergs sold between $18 and $50 with shipping.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 25, 2012)

*One More Funny Thing*

When I lined these things up on the bar to photograph, I set them all the same: 30 degree filing angle, 0 degree tilt. Double checked the settings.

The bars did not all line up parallel!!!

Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 3, 2012)

*This stuff is still interesting to me anyway . . .*

I realized that the hold-down feature (File-N-_Join_t) is important to me because I typically use these on a scrap bar clamped into a vise, with a loose chain.

I tweaked the hold-down clamps slightly, by toeing in the ends to help hold the chain rivets down at the far end, while allowing the chain to enter easily at the close end.

If you use these guides with the chain mounted in your saw, then the File-N-_Guide_ (without the hold-down feature) might be fine, because you can increase the chain tension to help hold it down.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 14, 2012)

*Why They Might Have Moved to the Plastic File Frames/Harps!*




Cast aluminum/pot metal/whatever can be brittle!

Might have to find some aluminum bar stock to drill and tap.

Philbert


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## deerjackie (Jun 8, 2012)

sawnami said:


> I tried to use my newer File-N-Joint on my 1/2" chain and found out that the cutters wouldn't pass through it. I dug out the old McCulloch branded File-N-Joint that came in a kit with an old McCulloch 33 that I bought several years ago. It worked fine with the 1/2" chain. It also has a better finish and hardware. The wing nuts on the old one are easier to grip than the thumb screws on the newer one that I have. The swivel guide on the old one has a felt wick in the center of it that you oil to keep lubrication on the upper rod.
> View attachment 224200


Thats the real mccoy right there!!!!


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## deerjackie (Jul 5, 2012)

looking for a bench mounted version of the vintage nygran file n joint if anyone sees one. thanks:msp_biggrin:


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## w8ye (Jul 31, 2012)

I have a couple of the red deluxe Oregons that are made by Tecomec in italy. They are real nice. one looks like this except no rust.






The other one is this same model but older with the degree wheels red pot metal instead of hard black plastic. The file holder ends were pot metal and the file retainer parts were broken so it has the current new style deluxe Oregon file holders. It has a rubber pad inside against the bar but opposite the friction screw.

One works as well as the other.

A neigbor has a older Granberg before they had a built in file handle. It is made almost exactly like my Oregons except it is silver and has no file handle. The file holder parts are pot metal.

The yellow Nygren File-N-Joint looks just like the older silver Granbergs.


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## w8ye (Jul 31, 2012)

Here is my newer Oregon file guide





This is my older one before I put the new style arms on it. The rust polished off the round slide bar. The two bars are just 1/4" round and 1/4" key stock from the hardware store anyway.






All the screws are metric in the Oregon/Tecomecs


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## w8ye (Jul 31, 2012)

There is a yellow Nygran that is older than this - It does not have the square bar to limits the amount you file.


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## Philbert (Aug 1, 2012)

I liked the metal cast ends until one cracked/snapped on me. Now I am not so sure that the plastic ones aren't good enough. Could make one better than either one out of some square, aluminum stock. Similar to what someone did in an earlier thread to hold a square file.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 6, 2014)

I am trying to add lost photos back into this thread. If anyone else who posted in this thread has their original photos, or something close, that they can add back in, it would be helpful and appreciated.

Thanks.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 14, 2014)

UPDATE: _Replaced a number of missing photographs._ 

Some related threads: 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-chisel-bit-file-n-joint.62604/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/filing-guides.249691/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jun 20, 2014)

Bump - due to interest in some other threads.

Philbert


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## CTYank (Jun 20, 2014)

Philbert said:


> _*Note: The original images in this thread were lost. I will try to add some back which are as close as possible . I cannot add photos back to other people's posts*_
> 
> When I first started to sharpen my own chains I bought an Oregon, bar-mounted, filing guide (model 23736A). This was the 'professional' model; made in Italy, retailed for about $40, and had more metal parts than the model sold in home centers (model 23820) for about half that cost.



I should point out that the first two images posted, probably from retailers' sites, are backwards in multiple ways. Northern Tools' images for FNJ is also backwards- big-time backwards.
Cutting edges of chain should pass through tool first, with chain stop engaging the rear of the cutters.
File should be rotated about vertical so the tang is closer to the guide than the other tip. Filing "inside out" strongly recommended by most mfgs and "experts".
Couple seconds observation and thought, it'll be obvious, like how doing otherwise would defeat capabilities of tool.


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## mikestewbru (Sep 9, 2015)

The newer Granberg file-n-joints are in my opinion are a huge disappointment, I've had two failures out of 2 attempts. the cast alum. is brittle and has been the reason for both failures, incredibly easy to break.


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## Philbert (Sep 9, 2015)

mikestewbru said:


> The newer Granberg file-n-joints are in my opinion are a huge disappointment, I've had two failures out of 2 attempts. the cast alum. is brittle and has been the reason for both failures, incredibly easy to break.


I have had similar failures with older versions of these as well, which used some type of pot metal (see post #41, about 12 posts up). It's disappointing.

I got a couple pieces of aluminum bar stock that I may cut and bore for sturdier replacements, similar to the designs posted for square filing modifications.

When I get around to it.

Save the old ones for parts!

Philbert


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## mikestewbru (Sep 9, 2015)

this was the first failure, its a design flaw with materials they use, it is straight out of the box, and broken, i called granberg and they shipped a new part but I'm starting to think that they are going to have to ship me a new part everytime i use this thing. to those looking to buy... just don't.
it does do a good job when its working but it won't stay working for long.


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## Philbert (Sep 9, 2015)

Cast does not very flex very well. That is why I am looking to use a piece of extruded aluminum for replacement parts, and why I don't mind the plastic used some of the other models, even though it flexes more.

Should not fail out of the box.

Should not fail after extended use.

Philbert


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## svk (Sep 9, 2015)

Was just laying in bed thinking about this last night and this post popped up today. What is the recommended sharpening system to buy nowadays?


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## Philbert (Sep 9, 2015)

svk said:


> What is the recommended sharpening system to buy nowadays?



Whatever works for you!

Philbert


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## noshow74 (Sep 9, 2015)

svk said:


> Was just laying in bed thinking about this last night and this post popped up today. What is the recommended sharpening system to buy nowadays?


I wish I knew the answer. I suck at sharpening. Hope I get better some day lol 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## Full Chisel (Sep 9, 2015)

svk said:


> Was just laying in bed thinking about this last night and this post popped up today. What is the recommended sharpening system to buy nowadays?



Granberg File'n'Joint. I love mine, it's held up very well and I get SHARP chains using it.


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## mikestewbru (Sep 9, 2015)

Full Chisel said:


> Granberg File'n'Joint. I love mine, it's held up very well and I get SHARP chains using it.


how old is yours EA bola?


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## xPosTech (Sep 14, 2015)

If you want to alert a user you need to use his user ID preceded with the @ symbol. 

As an example like this: @mikestewbru. You should get an Alert at the upper right of any page you're logged on to stating you have been mentioned in a post of the relevant thread. For convenience I'll alert @Full Chisel for you. Notice that his user ID is the top line in blue below his avatar.

Ted

Edit: Also note the alert flag won't change color until you post the message.


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## Full Chisel (Sep 14, 2015)

mikestewbru said:


> how old is yours EA bola?



Mine is under a year old but it's seen quite a bit of use and has no sign of wear or looseness.


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## Adirondackstihl (Oct 26, 2015)

Just had this oldie given to me.
Never heard of Norman Prince before....
But it looks well made













Maybe someone can show me how to set it up for square filing?


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## Chris J. (Oct 27, 2015)

One of my neighbors gave me an early (very good fit-and-finish) Granberg FNJ. He used to do a lot of cutting in Arkansas and was a good hand-filer.

I tinkered with it one time. Once I reclaim my work-space in the garage I plan to put it to good use.


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## madhatte (Oct 27, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Maybe someone can show me how to set it up for square filing?



This is how I did it: 


madhatte said:


> Here's what my setup looks like mounted on the bar. Top plate angle is about 22*, down angle is about 40*. I say "about" because the increments are marked off pretty roughly, and I'm hitting them as close as I can without a protractor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mastermind (Oct 27, 2015)

That one is missing the notches that allow a double bevel file to work in it. I have no doubt that those notches can be added though.


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## Termite (Oct 27, 2015)

I sold my Granberg Saturday. We did not get along.


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## nnero (Oct 27, 2015)

My dad found an old one under the bench (it looks like a granberg). It needs a good cleaning but seems to a good quality one. I will add pics when I get to it.


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## madhatte (Oct 27, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> That one is missing the notches that allow a double bevel file to work in it. I have no doubt that those notches can be added though.



I recommend the triangle files for this job. They're a lot less trouble to chuck up in the jig. Double bevels are a hand-filing tool, unless you have one of those spendy things I have forgotten the name of.


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## Mastermind (Oct 27, 2015)

This old McCulloch file guide uses a double bevel.


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## madhatte (Oct 27, 2015)

Ooh, that's nice. Would like to get my hands on one of those.


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## Adirondackstihl (Oct 27, 2015)

I found this.....

http://www.treefalling.com/chain_sharpening.pdf


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## Philbert (Oct 27, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> I found this.....http://www.treefalling.com/chain_sharpening.pdf


Very cool information. Filed it (sorry for the pun) under '_Advanced_ Granberg Insturctions'!

Philbert


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## Adirondackstihl (Oct 27, 2015)

So I just set the Original Granberg up for square and gave it a go.
I'm finding that there isn't enough height adjustment to get me where I need to be. 

I can make it work, but I foresee some inconsistency


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## row.man (Oct 28, 2015)

I have the new plastic guide, the husky roller, and a timberline. The Oregon is good, but too clunky to carry for field sharpening, I also ended up cutting crooked sometimes.
The husky roller is the fastest way for touching up a chain every other tankful.
The timberline is the fastest way to get a razor sharp chain that seems to last longer than any other.
I also have the handheld Oregon electric sharpener, useless IMO.


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## bikemike (Oct 28, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Just had this oldie given to me.
> Never heard of Norman Prince before....
> But it looks well made
> 
> ...


Italy sure makes some nice stuff


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## Perry pioneer (Oct 28, 2015)

Is there a significant difference in the granburg 108 and the 106?


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## egraham (Oct 28, 2015)

How well do the cheap Husqvarna sharpeners do? I talking about the one that pops over the chain and has 2 rollers.

Thanks


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## Adirondackstihl (Oct 28, 2015)

I like this Norman Prince better than the Granberg.
It's much more square friendly


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## Philbert (Oct 28, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> I like this Norman Prince better than the Granberg.


There were lots of versions of these through the years, often sold with different labels.

Philbert


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## bikemike (Oct 28, 2015)

svk said:


> Was just laying in bed thinking about this last night and this post popped up today. What is the recommended sharpening system to buy nowadays?


Need a old wall or bench mount belt drive grinder powered by a saw engine


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## Mastermind (Oct 29, 2015)

egraham said:


> How well do the cheap Husqvarna sharpeners do? I talking about the one that pops over the chain and has 2 rollers.
> 
> Thanks



I like them for learning to file.


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## Adirondackstihl (Oct 29, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I like them for learning to file.


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## nnero (Nov 7, 2015)

Here's two pics. I took it apart to clean. A couple new wingnuts and a little time and it should be good as new


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## shootingarts (Nov 8, 2015)

I have been using my Granberg for a year or two now. Learned the little tweaks to make it work better for me. I put the file in backwards and pull the slack out of everything to cut tighter into the corner of a tooth and added five degrees to get in the corner a little better too. I see a recommendation for ten degrees, might try it.

Pretty happy with my results now, my Stihl RSC chain cuts at least as well resharpened as from the factory and after the first sharpening changes the profile a few degrees to match the Granberg, additional sharpenings take very little off. My chains are lasting far longer than when I had them resharpened by someone else and I can resharpen anytime, no dropping a chain off and coming back in a day or three to get it!

Something else, files last me much longer too. I suspect that holding them at a consistent angle and lifting on the back stroke has a lot to do with it, I tend to let the file drag and bounce around freehand sharpening. Since the same place hits the tooth all of the time when the file does finally get dull turning it 180 degrees gives me an all new surface. Probably could get more use out of it than that but I'm very happy with file life now.

I still get the itch to square file sometimes and I may take another look at it when my new bar gets here. Got a 32" Sugi coming and since I'll treat the bar kind, the chain won't be treated as rough either. Hate too but sometimes my factory bar meets a little dirt cutting roots or something even after cleaning all I can around them. Only way to excavate stumps with my small tractor so the bar has to suffer. I'll get a new short bar before too long and have the old bar and a ratty chain I found reserved for dirty work.

Anyway, just wanted to update my findings on the Granberg. Very happy with it! The more I use it the better it gets.

Hu


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## jeffesonm (Nov 10, 2015)

Also happy with my granberg... gets things nice and sharp. I also used it to regrind a 32" chain down to 5 degrees for milling.


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## Philbert (Dec 15, 2016)

*Bump*

Been a while. I picked up a few more at garage sales and eBay to add to the 'stable' (cheaper, and takes up less space than collecting large displacement chainsaws).

Also, some comparisons with the similar STIHL models (referenced on first page, Post #11):



*STIHL FG1* - looks similar / identical to the Tecomec versions.



*STIHL FG 2 *(bench mounted version) with older and current models of Granberg file guides - note differences in scale.



*STIHL FG 2* (bench mounted version) and *FG 3 *(bar mounted version - but much larger than FG 1)

Philbert


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## SeMoTony (Dec 15, 2016)

nixon said:


> I've got a Timberline ,and it works well . But, I'm tempted to buy a Granberg because I think they can fine tune some angles better . That assumption could be wrong . But then CAD goes deep . It even affects the tools We buy . Heck, I'm even tempted to buy a Silvey grinderwith ABN . Does this crap ever stop
> ????


Understood. It may stop for me but then does ups deliver to the grave yard? (-;


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## Vibes (Dec 16, 2016)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Just had this oldie given to me.
> Never heard of Norman Prince before....
> But it looks well made
> 
> ...



We used to have a dealer in Pa. who used to have lots of stuff branded Norman Prince. In fact last year I sold my last bar by that name. They were just stenciled Tsunarma Super bars. I still have a Raker gauge rhat was in a package labled Norman Prince.


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## Del_ (Dec 19, 2016)

Here is my File-N-Guide bought new at Sears back in 1979 or so.


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## HTTR (Dec 20, 2016)

Here's a Granberg file-n-joint with bench mount. G400A with G410 (This isn't mine, these are just some pictures I found online.) I really like the bench mount feature. Kind of looks like the FG2 from Stihl.


*




*


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2016)

Very cool! I did not know that Granberg made a bench mount version.

Maybe they will reintroduce it, due to all of the interest in the NLA STIHL FG2?

I have thought about making a 'poor man's FG2' by bolting a Granberg style tool to a short section of guide bar, and then a bracket to mount that to bench. Might have to have sections from several bars (0.043, 0.050, 0.058, and 0.063") unless I make an adjustable vise like the one in the thread below, or like one used on an inexpensive chain grinder:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-low-tech-filing-vise.245004/

These photos really help. Thanks!

Philbert


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## HTTR (Dec 20, 2016)

Some more pics...


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## HTTR (Jan 1, 2017)

I just got 2 used file-n-joints. I haven't seen pictures of these versions so I thought I'd share them.
The first one's a G-106A and the second is a Nygran industries file-n-joint.


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## Philbert (Jan 1, 2017)

Nice. 'Nygran' = 'Granberg', as I understand it.

Interested to know how you like them, and what differences you find between the 2 models.

Philbert


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## HTTR (Jan 1, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Nice. 'Nygran' = 'Granberg', as I understand it.
> 
> Interested to know how you like them, and what differences you find between the 2 models.
> 
> Philbert


I'm hoping to sharpen some chain next week. We'll see how they do.


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## Philbert (Jan 29, 2017)

*Original Granberg Patent?*
Goes back to 1955 (filing date) and 1958 (award date)!


*Chain saw sharpening and jointing apparatus*
Publication number US2818752 A
Publication date Jan 7, 1958
Filing date Jul 1, 1955
Inventors Elof Granberg
Original Assignee Nygran Ind Ltd

Available on _Google patents_ for real chain geeks!




Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 29, 2017)

*Videos*

A _long_ time ago, I recall seeing a YouTube video that clearly explained how to mount, adjust, and use these types of jigs. Can't find it since.
Most show a guy fumbling around and mumbling while he does or doesn't do a good job of filing or explaining what he is doing. If anyone knows of a _good, clear_ video, please share.

The angles are pretty easy to set. But one issue I had was understanding how high to mount the jig on the guide bar. Another was adjusting the side chain clamps. These side clamps stabilize the chain while filing, and distinguish the _File-N-Joint_ from the_ File-N-Guide_ models.

- The filing guide should be clamped to the bar so that the side chain clamps are positioned slightly higher than the chain rivets. This helps hold the chain down, and prevent chain lifting, while filing the underside of the top plate.

- The side chain clamps should be tight enough to stabilize the chain side-to-side when filing, minimizing lateral movement, but not so tight that they prevent the chain from freely moving forward when advancing to the next tooth.




These were a couple of the better videos I found on a recent search:

*Granberg106B Chainsaw Chain Filing Jig, Advanced Use* - George Lawrence
Goes into detailed modifications to the filing guide (and bar*), including use for square ground chains, etc. *_drilling the bar is not required for normal use._



*chainsawbars.co.uk - using a filing guide system* - chainsawbars
Basic.


Philbert


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## svk (Jan 29, 2017)

Philbert you should make a video! Or even better a series!


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## Philbert (Jan 29, 2017)

I have a face for radio . . .

Philbert


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## svk (Jan 29, 2017)

Philbert said:


> I have a face for radio . . .
> 
> Philbert


It's mostly your hands doing the talking in a how to video anyhow.


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## Wowzer (Apr 14, 2017)

Philbert said:


> *Bump*
> 
> Been a while. I picked up a few more at garage sales and eBay to add to the 'stable' (cheaper, and takes up less space than collecting large displacement chainsaws).
> 
> ...




Can you buy the bench mount ones still or do you have to find them used. A buddy has tried to get me on the bar mount one and I think easier to get onto it with the bench mount on first.


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## Philbert (Apr 14, 2017)

Wowzer said:


> Can you buy the bench mount ones still or do you have to find them used. A buddy has tried to get me on the bar mount one and I think easier to get onto it with the bench mount on first.


The STIHL FG2 is (was) the most common bench mount version (I only saw that Granberg, a few post back, in that post). You can find them used with some persistence, or on Bay periodically if you are willing to pay $250, or if you know someone living/traveling/deployed in Europe (where they may still be available). 

If you have some mechanical skills, with a little creativity you could modify a basic Granberg type guide for bench mounting by combining it with some type of filing vise (_please post photos in this thread if you do!!!_).
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/filing-vise.149917/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-low-tech-filing-vise.245004/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-low-er-tech-filing-vise.277258/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/i-made-some-chain-vises.240935/

I don't use mine a lot, but when I do, it is typically mounted on a spare bar clamped in a machinist's vise (without the saw powerhead); if it is set up and adjusted correctly the filing jig holds the cutters secure enough to get good results with a sharp file.

Philbert


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## sawnami (May 20, 2017)

Not a Granberg but thought it might be of interest.










Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Philbert (May 20, 2017)

That thing looks absolutely worthless!

(Send it to me for proper disposal. ) 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 28, 2018)

Nice set up instructions by @CTYank

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-guide-setup.237730/

And, how to do depth gauges:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/filing-depth-gauges-with-granberg-guide.238512/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 16, 2020)

Current (no pun intended) Granberg 12V File-N-Joint (Grind).



https://granberg.com/product/g912xt-grind-n-joint-12v/

Philbert


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## buttercup (Jan 16, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Current (no pun intended) Granberg 12V File-N-Joint (Grind).
> View attachment 788999
> 
> 
> ...



How do you like it?


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## Philbert (Jan 16, 2020)

buttercup said:


> How do you like it?


Have not tried it yet. 

I like the standard Granberg guides, but a little leery about the stones wearing and changing diameter. 
Philbert


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## buttercup (Jan 16, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Have not tried it yet.
> 
> I like the standard Granberg guides, but a little leery about the stones wearing and changing diameter.
> Philbert



Ok, I thought perhaps you had that one. I have been looking at it with interest, shouldn't be difficult to get diamonds bits that fits if it has a standard diameter chuck/mount.


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## Philbert (Jan 16, 2020)

According to Granberg it uses the 'standard', 1/8" diameter _threaded_ shaft grinding stones, used on several grinders of this type (some use _smooth_ shaft stones):
https://granberg.com/product-category/sharpeners/stones-files/ Depending on how fast these wear, and the user's awareness of the wear, they still could be an acceptable product. They are used by many folks on many Granberg, Oregon, STIHL, Dremel, and similar rotary chainsaw sharpeners.

A few years back, a member no longer here, at a company no longer in business, was offering these in CBN/ABN (the long life abrasive used on some, plated chain grinder wheels) from an Australian company. These also appear to be 'no longer available', and are not listed on their website: https://www.dinasaw.com.au/

Eze-Lap diamond stones were intended for carbide chains, as I understand, but could be used on standard chain?
https://www.baileysonline.com/eze-lap-diamond-grinding-stones-with-threaded-shaft-csr.html
http://eze-lap.com/lawn_garden/chainsaw-sharpeners/

Philbert


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## HTTR (Jan 19, 2020)

Nice new addition Philbert. I’m glad to see this thread again.


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## rwoods (Jan 19, 2020)

Philbert said:


> The STIHL FG2 is (was) the most common bench mount version (I only saw that Granberg, a few post back, in that post). You can find them used with some persistence, or on Bay periodically if you are willing to pay $250, or if you know someone living/traveling/deployed in Europe (where they may still be available).
> 
> If you have some mechanical skills, with a little creativity you could modify a basic Granberg type guide for bench mounting by combining it with some type of filing vise *(please post photos in this thread if you do!!!)*.
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/filing-vise.149917/
> ...



Philbert, sorry I am a few years late. I mounted an older Gransberg to one of Homelite410 vices some years ago, then in 2018 I got a little fancy and made this two sided bench top rig while trying to convert the Gransberg to square filing. Still a work in progress trying to get the angles right and modifying the base for clearance.







Ron


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## Philbert (Jan 19, 2020)

How do they compare?

Philbert


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## rwoods (Jan 20, 2020)

No news here. The Stihl is much more robust but doesn't have the up and down angle range of the Gransberg necessary to square file. I set this up to pass time while sitting at the basement stove, but it was so warm I didn't burn much last year and have yet to light a fire this winter. For the most part, I round grind my chains. Ron


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## Turd Furgeson (Mar 17, 2020)

The ABN "stones" are still made. This place in the UK sells them. You almost need to do a group buy or pick up other items to justify the shipping charge though. I was thinking with the standard stones you could really use the 7/32" stones until they were small enough for narrow kerf chain. I'll find out. I picked up a big lot of NOS oregon stones on eBay. 









DS G732CHPF 7/32" (5.5mm) Dinasaw Diamond Fine Grinding Stone for 12V Grinder - Alaskan Mill – Mobile Chainsaw Mills


For 3/8" and .404 chains. These diamond grinding stones are the best on the market. The price reflects how long they will last for and the quality of the gr




alaskanmill.co.uk


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## Philbert (Mar 17, 2020)

Got contact info for that place that sells the ABN/CBN stones?

There is a range of quality in the conventional abrasive stones, as well as the threaded shafts needed on some grinders. 

Philbert


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## Turd Furgeson (Mar 17, 2020)

Philbert, this is the place. Just search ABN









Chainsawbars - Selectors for chainsaw guide bars, chains and sprockets


Chainsawbars - Largest selection of chainsaw guide bars and chainsaw chain for Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo and Dolmar chainsaws.




www.chainsawbars.co.uk


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## acarpenterdad (Mar 17, 2020)

I bought the oregon sharpener about 25 years ago after paying to have my chains sharpened and seeing how much they ground off. The laser was my father-in-laws and it's got to be 35 or 40 years old. They both work great! I do use the length stop. I use calipers to find the shortest tooth and set the length off that one for the rest.


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## peak-industry (Mar 18, 2020)

cool, but we made special designed automatical sharpener, will post video


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## Philbert (Jul 12, 2020)

I recently picked up this version, which I have not tried yet. Has a redesigned casting and a nice, quality feel to it:








Tecomec MS1 Chainsaw Sharpening File Guide Bar Mount replaces Oregon 557849 | eBay


This new filer is made with new material with low friction. New handle ergonomic design to insure precise sharpening operations. The MS1 fixing screw is more ergonomic and efficient. The two knobs with relevant fixing spring allow for a more precise and efficient regulation of the chain...



www.ebay.com







Philbert


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## RED-85-Z51 (Jul 12, 2020)

Philbert said:


> I recently picked up this version, which I have not tried yet. Has a redesigned casting and a nice, quality feel to it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I picked one up to try...to see if its a product i want to sell, im not impressed at all so far.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## Philbert (Jul 12, 2020)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> I picked one up to try...to see if its a product i want to sell, im not impressed at all so far.


Why? Can you be specific? Features? Quality? Performance? etc.?

I own a number of these now (mostly due to this thread!), including some which appear to be cast out of cheap metal, or have a lot of plastic parts; different, physical sizes; the '_File-N-*Guide*_' (shorter base) and '_File-N-*Joint*_' (longer base); bench mounted ones, etc., etc., etc. This one appears to be well made with mostly quality, metal components, except for the file holders, which is OK with me, since I had some of the cheap metal ones crack and break. It also seems to fit in-between the smaller, 'consumer' Oregon 23829 SureSharp, which has a lot of plastic parts, and the larger, heavier, 'professional' Oregon 557849, in both price and size.

Philbert


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## FordGT40 (Jul 16, 2020)

Hi, all, I just recently joined the forum and thought I would add my two cents on the Granberg File-n-Joint.

Whenever I try to hand file a saw, I end up causing the saw to cut a curve to the left. After two or three trips to the shop to get my chain “professionally” sharpened, I decided there had to be a tool that would simplify sharpening for me.

So, about ten years ago I ended up looking for an inexpensive solution to my problem and ran across the Granberg G106B. Aside from a few reviews complaining about the difficulty of first use, most reviews were extremely positive. So, I bought one for my then 18” Craftsman saw. Yes, their instructions leave much to be desired, but there is enough there to get you started and after a few tries, it becomes fairly easy to use. It only takes 10 minutes or so to do a complete chain once you are proficient.

Boy what a difference it made. Since then, I always get beautiful straight cuts. Needless to say, I really like the Granberg especially since I can take it out in the woods to use without needing electrical power.

I currently have two G106Bs and a third on order. One I have set up for my Echo CS-400 and the other for my CS-600P. The chain for the 400 is filed square to the bar whereas the chain on the 600P uses 10 degree down angle on the file. I keep the separate file guides because doing the down angle adjustment is a pain and which is why I have a third Granberg on order - I'll have two for the 600P, one for left side filing and one for right side filing and I won’t have to mess with changing the settings.


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## Philbert (Jul 16, 2020)

FordGT40 said:


> Hi, all, I just recently joined the forum and thought I would add my two cents on the Granberg File-n-Joint.


Welcome to A.S.!

Thanks for your comments, and sharing your experiences!

Philbert


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## sundance (Jul 16, 2020)

FordGT40 said:


> Hi, all, I just recently joined the forum and thought I would add my two cents on the Granberg File-n-Joint.
> 
> Whenever I try to hand file a saw, I end up causing the saw to cut a curve to the left. After two or three trips to the shop to get my chain “professionally” sharpened, I decided there had to be a tool that would simplify sharpening for me.
> 
> ...


Welcome to AS. 
I quit doing the 10 degree down angle on my chains (use a Granberg) because it was such a pain. Can't really tell any difference in performance for my uses.
Mine gets used for 3/8LP, .325 and 3/8 all filed at 30 degrees. All the chains work well.


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## Brad Krause (Oct 8, 2020)

Thank you for all the great information. I'm *rather frustrated* by taking newer chains to be overly ground by the local professional, not to mention having to own a load of chains so when one dulls out it can be swapped for a fresh one. I'd heard of hand-filing chains a few years back and finally decided to make it happen. I just purchased a lightly used Granberg File-n-Guide G-108 and am looking forward to having sharp chains cut great and last a long time, plus the convenience of sharpening on the fly.


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## sundance (Oct 8, 2020)

Brad Krause said:


> Thank you for all the great information. I'm *rather frustrated* by taking new chains to be overly ground by the local professional, not to mention having to own a load of chains so when when dulls out it can be swapped for a fresh one. I'd heard of hand-filing chains a few years back and finally decided to make it happen. I just purchased a lightly used Granberg File-n-Guide G-108 and am looking forward to having sharp chains cut great and last a long time, plus the convenience of sharpening on the fly.


Good choice. With some of the guidance contained here you should do well. I've used one for years. Personally, I use 30 degrees and no tilt as it gets painful to set. I've been happy with chain performance in all three sizes I use (3/8. .325 and 3/8LP). Chains now seem to last almost forever. Wish I didn't have a bunch of new chains bought back when I was getting them ground. Think I've got a couple lifetimes supply now. Really ought to try and sell some.


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## Philbert (Jan 1, 2021)

Someone recently asked me which model to purchase. Since I typed it into a PM, I figured I ought to copy most of it here:

I have more than a dozen of these (!), largely due to the rabbit hole I created with the (this) thread. They all work.
_** Key thing is to remember that it is a guide, to help you file consistently and precisely, and is not intended to force the file to do anything. **_​
The differences I see, among all the different models in this thread:

- Size: in the photos you can see the big differences between some. The more massive ones may have advantages in durability, or if used on harvester chain (?), but can also be heavy and clumsy. Even the 'Pro' Oregon one can feel big (pickup truck versus compact car preferences). Smaller ones can be easier to carry in the field, and keep your hand closer to the cutters (for control) when filing.

- Plastic: too much means more flex, especially in the hinged, top portion. But plastic is OK, IMO, in the top cap, where the guide bar slides, and in the 'frames' (clamp the file, top bar, and middle bar): I have had the pot metal ones crack /crumble.

- Quality: side-by-side you can see differences. I had to take my newer Granberg models apart and remove all the casting flash before using them, because it made me crazy; pretty good otherwise. I am confident that cheap models off eBay will have other quality issues. Most of the Tecomec, Oregon, and other brand name ones should be pretty good.

- Design: the older style _'File-N-*Grind*_*'*' models have a shorter base, and do not hold the cutters down when filing. The '_File-N-*Joint*_' models (last 40+ years) have a longer base, and the clamps to help hold the cutters. I would really like one with a second thumb screw to hold it to the bar more securely (so that it can't pivot) once positioned.

I have picked these up at garage sales for less than a dollar, and payed some serious money for a couple. Most used ones clean up pretty easily, even if they have some light rust. I prefer to work with the guide bar in a vise (on or off the saw) or somehow stabilized. The guides all work, if you understand what you are trying to accomplish and have _sharp_ files. Choose one (or more) that makes you happy!

Philbert


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## 4CornersPuddle (Jan 1, 2021)

Philbert, I've really appreciated and enjoyed all your chain related threads.
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth regarding chain filing, specifically relating to filing guides.
I started felling timber in 1972 with practically no helpful instruction from seasoned veterans about felling practices nor saw chain filing If you think about it, this was 2 years before Doug Dent published his Professional Timber Falling book! Talk about being a greenhorn and reinventing the wheel! After a summer job in the woods, I went spent three years in the Army, dreaming about getting back to my Homelite 924/925 and making some more logs.
When I returned to the woods, I spent a couple of months with a crew of moderately competent fallers, several who use the Granberg File-N-Joint of the day. I quickly bought one and figured out how to put it to really beneficial use.
I went through two of these tools, smashing the first with a tree that wandered out of the lay and into my gas jugs and tools, and actually wearing out the bushings and rods on the second one. Since then, I've only filed free hand. I do keep a File-N-Joint on hand to demonstrate to neophyte saw users what I'm talking about when I describe the angles etc. of a saw chain tooth. I've been known to give the guide away to a new saw user when I give them a saw. Yes, I rebuild saws and give them away. Spread the wealth, I say. Ha ha.
A sawing partner back in the '80s bought the Oregon tool. We compared it day in and day out to the Granberg. In our opinions, the Oregon tool was not as user friendly and wore out sooner than the Granberg. Both could certainly show a sawyer what they needed to achieve when filing.
Our site member Gaudaost has certainly shown what some understanding of filing means. It's my belief that many, if not most, folks would benefit from using one of these quality guides that clamp on the bar.
I've preached for years to new saw users, particularly fallers I've trained, that "It takes two years to know what a sharp chain is, and 10 years to learn how to really get there." This could be an exaggeration, but I've seen it repeatedly ring true in the 48 years that I've been running chainsaws for hire.


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## Philbert (Jan 1, 2021)

4CornersPuddle said:


> "It takes two years to know what a sharp chain is, and 10 years to learn how to really get there."


Thanks.

My position has mostly been: _'Everybody needs to find something that works for them_'. If they can freehand file; fine. If they use a grinder; fine. If they pay someone else to sharpen for them; fine. Different folks in different circumstances. I have conversed with folks who are '_professionals_', in that their income is derived from running a saw, who just do not want to sharpen chains! I don't sell any products, so it is not an issue to me how people sharpen, or which brands they use.

The chains that I see are not from guys who know how to sharpen, or who are satisfied with their current methods. As I stated at the beginning of this thread, the Granberg style file guides are something that I came back to, after trying a bunch of things, for folks that want consistent, precisely filed cutters. It's one option. If it serves as a 'training tool' for some, that can be a good thing too. I have learned a lot since starting this thread, and am impressed that even after 60 years, this basic design has remained a useful product.

Philbert


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## Brad Krause (Feb 7, 2021)

As an update, I now have really, really sharp chains thanks to you guys! It was still a learning process with the Granberg--there are a lot of things to keep in mind all at once--but with a little practice and a lot of attention paid to all the tips others gave (using a felt marker on the cutting edge is genius!) learning was fast and easy.

Some (most) old pros say sharpening is a skill that can't be reduced to numbers and has to be learned by years of practice and "feel." I've [harshly] believed "they don't know what they're doing, only that it works" which is usually correct--otherwise they'd all agree and there would be no discord. But there is discord, and many beers consumed while arguing over who has the best hand-filing skills (because Grinder-guys are hacks, it seems). 

There are generic numbers that work incredibly well, and those can be fine-tuned to take other factors into consideration, and sharpening is certainly a skill that can be advanced to an art. 

Hand-filing is certainly a skill that's not mastered easily. The Granberg Jig is like having training wheels that keep me out of trouble and let me concentrate on the result. There's still finesse involved in getting chain teeth angles near perfect with razor-sharp cutting edges, but filing guides make that repeatable, and with a lot of attention to detail these chains are super-fast and the edge lasts a long time. 

One other thing: There's almost no noticeable material removal. Previously, when the chains went in to get ground all the teeth were taken back to the same size and there was no doubt the teeth were smaller. With hand filing (using a jig) it's difficult to tell any material was removed because it's the material underneath that's removed to re-establish proper angles and sharpness--and then you stop. It's literally 2-3 strokes to sharpen a chain that's in good condition. Some of the chains that were sharpened on a grinder required 15-20 strokes to get them back to what a new factory chain looked like, and maybe 5 more super-light strokes to polish them in. (I bought a new factory chain and used it to set up the jig to be sure the jig was set correctly.) When the chain started dulling--and that took a lot of cutting--it only took 2-3 light strokes to sharpen it back up. My experience is super-sharp chains cut more wood between sharpening, so with proper oiling chain life is way, way longer. 

Thanks again guys, this really does work!


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## Philbert (Feb 21, 2021)

A lot of information to scroll through. Reposting links to some tutorials by @CTYank (in Post #106, above). Also check out videos linked in Post #98 above).






Granberg File Guide Setup


Drum roll, please. I finally figured how to do what it took to restore the pix to this show & tell guide, per request. This setup procedure has evolved for simplicity and efficiency, for wide variety of cutter types & sizes. 1. Clamp file to match cutter in holder. Mark first tooth for start...




www.arboristsite.com










Filing Depth Gauges with Granberg Guide.


I finally assembled the necessaries to resurrect this "illustrated guide" to filing saw chain depth gauges with Granberg "File-N-Joint". Because it's so simple and so generally necessary. Again, kibitzing is welcome. We assume that the file guide is set up to hold the common ~9" overall round...




www.arboristsite.com





Philbert


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## tomalophicon (Oct 31, 2021)

Here's something different.
Picked up this variation for free on marketplace.
This is solid. It weighs 2 pounds. The body is a solid chunk of cast iron.
Made 1947?
It's is perfect working order and the build quality is so much better than the new Granberg I bought this year.
Looks like a square file could be used based on the instructions?
Came with a couple extra goodies too.








EDIT:
After using this thing it absolutely blows the Granberg out of the water. Much more solid construction, solid as a rock, the screws for the file actually stay tight. It doesn't flex under use. Chattering much reduced. I'll be relegating the Granberg to the field box and keeping this in the shed.


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## tomalophicon (Nov 1, 2021)

Philbert said:


> *Original Granberg Patent?*
> Goes back to 1955 (filing date) and 1958 (award date)!
> 
> 
> ...


Philbert, the 'Piccolo' above may pre-date the Granberg? Interesting if it does considering the patent information you linked. 
There's zero information on this sharpener on the net.
Tom.


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## Philbert (Nov 1, 2021)

Nice, older model. These devices have been made / sold under many names, as well as private labels (e.g. ‘Sears’, ‘Homelite’, etc. ). 

Earlier versions had shorter bases (‘file-n-guide’). Longer bases (‘file-n-joint’) came later. 

The numbers probably mean something other than patent date or manufacture date. Might be easier to date from the accompanying literature. I’m guessing mid 1960’s to early 1970’s?

Nice file guide in any case. 

Philbert


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## FordGT40 (Nov 1, 2021)

tomalophicon said:


> Here's something different.
> Picked up this variation for free on marketplace.
> This is solid. It weighs 2 pounds. The body is a solid chunk of cast iron.
> Made 1947?
> ...


Nice find! That looks very solidly built. Yes, the Granbergs due flex a bit if you put some pressure to them.


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## Braintree (Nov 1, 2021)

tomalophicon said:


> Philbert, the 'Piccolo' above may pre-date the Granberg? Interesting if it does considering the patent information you linked.
> There's zero information on this sharpener on the net.
> Tom.


Tom,Does that say Zürich on the body of the sharpener? So it may have been made in Austria? But the literature was from Canada? That’s really nice I never seen a shopping like that. I’ve got both stihl model When you anchored to your bench the other one you just put on the bar. Is that one there are some cool. Nice find


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## MacAttack (Nov 1, 2021)

I feel like I've gotten good at putting a good sharpening on a saw with my old McCulloch F&J. I really need some new files though, what size file do you guys favor for 1/4 and 3/8 lp chain?


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## Philbert (Nov 1, 2021)

I Googled ’J. Hunziker’, and, apparently, it was a brand of chainsaw. 

There was also a post from someone else who found a similar filing guide, on a chainsaw collector forum (unable to post a link):




Philbert


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## tomalophicon (Nov 1, 2021)

Philbert said:


> Nice, older model. These devices have been made / sold under many names, as well as private labels (e.g. ‘Sears’, ‘Homelite’, etc. ).
> 
> Earlier versions had shorter bases (‘file-n-guide’). Longer bases (‘file-n-joint’) came later.
> 
> ...


You could be right regarding the date. Can't date the literature - interesting nonetheless.


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## tomalophicon (Nov 1, 2021)

Braintree said:


> Tom,Does that say Zürich on the body of the sharpener? So it may have been made in Austria? But the literature was from Canada? That’s really nice I never seen a shopping like that. I’ve got both stihl model When you anchored to your bench the other one you just put on the bar. Is that one there are some cool. Nice find


Zurich yes. I think the literature is German. Branded Solo at the bottom but it's Oregon info.


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## tomalophicon (Nov 1, 2021)

Philbert said:


> I Googled ’J. Hunziker’, and, apparently, it was a brand of chainsaw.
> 
> There was also a post from someone else who found a similar filing guide, on a chainsaw collector forum (unable to post a link):
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks. It definitely works with modern chain.


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## Philbert (Nov 1, 2021)

It is similar in appearance to one of the older STIHL filing guides I have. They probably paid a third-party to manufacture it with their company’s name on it, to be sold as an accessory.

Philbert


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## tomalophicon (Nov 1, 2021)

Philbert said:


> It is similar in appearance to one of the older STIHL filing guides I have. They probably paid a third-party to manufacture it with their company’s name on it, to be sold as an accessory.
> 
> Philbert


I just did some digging and found this (FG1?) which, apart from some minor differences, looks to be the same item or a very close cousin.


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## Real1shepherd (Nov 1, 2021)

I've never got any traction on this. This was the original Granberg setup for square filing. I had one loggin' and then tried to get another in the mid 80's....but Granberg discontinued it. Best hand jig for square filing. Using a progressive raker gauge, you can delete all the anguish in getting the cutters to the same length.

Interestingly, after struggling for yrs to fortify a broken base, I finally realized the base of the square file jig is the same as the standard metal File 'n joints made now. 

So if you have a home metal mill, you could fashion the file end pieces as in the pictures or actually better. In another thread with Philbert, we actually talk about this and a retired machinist did it. An AS member has promised to fix me up and when/if he does, I'll pass along the iteration. 

Kevin


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## Braintree (Nov 2, 2021)

Real1shepherd said:


> I've never got any traction on this. This was the original Granberg setup for square filing. I had one loggin' and then tried to get another in the mid 80's....but Granberg discontinued it. Best hand jig for square filing. Using a progressive raker gauge, you can delete all the anguish in getting the cutters to the same length.
> 
> Interestingly, after struggling for yrs to fortify a broken base, I finally realized the base of the square file jig is the same as the standard metal File 'n joints made now.
> 
> ...


Kevin,is that a model#107?I believe that is the model number for the granberg to square file.


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## Braintree (Nov 2, 2021)

tomalophicon said:


> I just did some digging and found this (FG1?) which, apart from some minor differences, looks to be the same item or a very close cousin.
> View attachment 938626
> View attachment 938628


I think your right about that.They look very similar.I have a FG1 I bought off eBay some time ago.


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## Real1shepherd (Nov 2, 2021)

Braintree said:


> Kevin,is that a model#107?I believe that is the model number for the granberg to square file.


Yes, says so on the tag in the second pic.....exactly as it came. However on mine, this was a sticker put over the original round file model sticker. I had no idea until I pealed the tag off one day.......which gave me the imputes to buy the current round file model and use that new base.

So essentially, I have a cobbled together G-107 which I made work all these yrs. The original file holders broke and I made do. It's an easy fix with someone having a small milling machine. My guess is that the original prototype was made in steel, but Granberg made the production model in pot metal.....a fatal mistake.

Those round discs(in the first pic) that held the square file were paper thin and broke first....then the clamp on holders themselves cracked and broke.

Kevin


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## tomalophicon (Nov 2, 2021)

Philbert said:


> It is similar in appearance to one of the older STIHL filing guides I have. They probably paid a third-party to manufacture it with their company’s name on it, to be sold as an accessory.
> 
> Philbert


Found another. This time Oregon branded. Looks like a built in file handle which is handy.


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## rwoods (Nov 2, 2021)

Real1shepherd said:


> Yes, says so on the tag in the second pic.....exactly as it came. However on mine, this was a sticker put over the original round file model sticker. I had no idea until I pealed the tag off one day.......which gave me the imputes to buy the current round file model and use that new base.
> 
> So essentially, I have a cobbled together G-107 which I made work all these yrs. The original file holders broke and I made do. It's an easy fix with someone having a small milling machine. My guess is that the original prototype was made in steel, but Granberg made the production model in pot metal.....a fatal mistake.
> 
> ...


What settings are you using to file square?

Thanks, Ron


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## Real1shepherd (Nov 3, 2021)

rwoods said:


> What settings are you using to file square?
> 
> Thanks, Ron


The tilt up & down I use 20 degrees and the actual cutter angle anywhere from 35-37 degrees. The file angle that corresponds to the hash-marks on the round discs I can't tell you because the discs are long gone. I have those marked with a Sharpie from experience.

I do have the original instructions somewhere on a tattered yellow sheet.....but I haven't laid eyes on them in ten yrs or more. They were pretty horrible and confusing when I first started using the jig some 40+ yrs ago. 

Kevin


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## rwoods (Nov 3, 2021)

Thanks. This gives me a base from which I can figure the rotation of the file.

Ron


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## Real1shepherd (Nov 3, 2021)

I should make a video....or at least they tell me to. If I can get the AS member to make me some parts, I'll show folks how to make a square file sharpener out of a standard Granberg G-106b. Those numbers I gave are for pro, Oregon .404 68CJ chain. Other style chains may require different angles.

I know there's a vid out on YouTube where a guy does this, but not for a Pferd Double Bevel Square Chisel as the orignal G-107 was setup for.

Kevin


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## Real1shepherd (Nov 4, 2021)

rwoods said:


> Thanks. This gives me a base from which I can figure the rotation of the file.
> 
> Ron


One of the biggest things when square filing on a jig is the actual rotational tilt of the file itself. If you have too much rotation, the file will sharpen the cutter more _under _the edge of the cutter(think of a cliff analogy). You should see metal filings coming off the edge of the cutter and it should look razor straight. Anything else and your saw will wander all over the place and/or pull in your cuts. You want the file to _just _dress the edge _and_ the inside of the cutter at the same time.

Also when you're setting up your jig, lower the file completely into the gullet, then raise ever so slightly. If your file touches the top of a tie strap, it's no big deal as long as you don't let it groove way into it. Never had a tie strap let go because it had file groove marks on the top of it.

Kevin


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## Philbert (Jun 18, 2022)

Came in an email today:








Philbert


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## Del_ (Jun 18, 2022)

I bought this Sears File-N-Guide back around 1980 I believe. Sure looks a lot like the Granberg. The 'Sears' name is just a stick on label.


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## Philbert (Jun 18, 2022)

Del_ said:


> I bought this Sears File-N-Guide back around 1980 I believe. Sure looks a lot like the Granberg. The 'Sears' name is just a stick on label.


Granberg ‘private labeled’ many of these. After patents ran out, many copies and versions were made by lots of different companies. Tecomec made/makes several versions. STIHL made at least 3. The SEARS versions were probably made by Granberg. 

Philbert


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