# Setting Chokers



## ladywolf (Jun 6, 2008)

I wonder if some of you might be kind enough to educate me on this. I now live in West Texas away from my home in the Pacific Northwest. Every morning where they logged around me I could hear something that sounded like a horn honking. It was explained to me that the choker setter was responsible for the 'horn' so that the machine operator could begin drawing up the cable attached to the log.

Unfortunately, all the loggers in my family have long since passed away. I wish I could have asked them about this. I am a writer and I need to be precise with my facts - can someone or several of you who are willing, let me know the details of this procedure - setting chokers? What are these things called - is the machine called a log skidder? What is the sound I hear and who makes it?

Thanks so much in advance for your kindnesses. judy


----------



## Burvol (Jun 6, 2008)

That sound is called a whistle, telling the yarder engineer to go ahead, slack, tight line, haul back, etc., depending on what kind of rigging they are running. That system is used on steep ground, you should go check it out for yourself when you get back. Cat ground is flat. I'm sure you'll get a better explanation. Don't watch ax men, it's pitifull and embarresing.


----------



## ladywolf (Jun 6, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Don't watch ax men, it's pitifull and embarresing.


 Thank you for the laugh! How kind of you to respond so quickly. Indeed, I lived in the mountains and the logging was on very steep terrain, nothing about it was flat.

Can you answer me a couple things?-- Where was the whistle in terms of the control - is it a remote device that he can sound?

Also, does anyone know when the whistle was introduced?-- would that have been around in the late 70's or early 80's?


----------



## Burvol (Jun 6, 2008)

ladywolf said:


> Thank you for the laugh! How kind of you to respond so quickly. Indeed, I lived in the mountains and the logging was on very steep terrain, nothing about it was flat.
> 
> Can you answer me a couple things?-- Where was the whistle in terms of the control - is it a remote device that he can sound?
> 
> Also, does anyone know when the whistle was introduced?-- would that have been around in the late 70's or early 80's?



Yes, they wear them on their belt, they are battery powered, you recharge them at night. Not sure, but I think they have been around since the early seventies. I'm 28 so, I have not been alive that long to really know.


----------



## slowp (Jun 6, 2008)

I think during the steam donkey days of logging, they hired somebody as a 
"Whistle Punk". They had a rope, which was attached to the whistle on the steam donkey up on the landing. The whistle punk sent the signals up by pulling on the rope. 

Now the yarder outfits have Talkie Tooters. Usually the most experienced guy on the rigging crew--choker setters has the control. It is a red, rectangular box with a handle that sets off the whistle when pushed. The whistle is up on the landing attached to the yarder. 

If you are watching Axe Men, the motorized carriages they are using are usually controlled by the Talkie Tooter also. There is a control that tells the carriage to clamp and unclamp on the line. The carriage is the most likely to break down piece in this setup. Unfortunately, Axe Men is probably 80% accurate in the portrayal of the gyppo crews in this area. I'll post some pictures I have of stuff you might find useful. I'll have to find them though so stay tuned.


----------



## slowp (Jun 6, 2008)

I still can't find my discs, but here's a couple pictures. 

The red thing on the left guy's belt is the remote. The guy in the center also has one on.






Here they are watching the logs going into the skyline corridor. When the logs are in the corridor, they'll blow 3 short whistles and the yarder engineer will pull the logs straight up the hill. 






I don't have any pictures on steep ground. That'll be this year. I just stocked up on Glucosamine stuff for the knees.


----------



## Humptulips (Jun 7, 2008)

Whistles to signal the engineer first started to be used about the time steam donkeys (yarders) were introduced. The first were like described a rope called a jerk wire attached to a steam whistle. Right around the 40s when gas and diesel donkeys made their apperance in a big way the electric whistle was introduced. It still required a man to string whistle wire to to the landing but was a lot easier to get a clear whistle out of. Then in the early 60s the talkie tooters came out. Radio operated the whistle on the donkey. They have a switch in them that turns the sending unit on when the talkie tooter is turned up. This saves batteries. You turn it up and squeeze a spring loaded contact point to make the whistle toot. Better not blow too many long whistles or you will earn the rath of the engineer. Some although not all (mostly the early models) you could talk to the engineer by leaving the bug (that's what we call them) turned down and pretty much standing on your head to talk into them. They can hear you but you can't hear them. A good feature if you are not on the receiving end. This feature was removed in later models because it was said to be dangerous. Supposedly it could set off whistles on another frequency.
When the motorized carriages came in the radio whistles were also used to control them. You will be carrying two on different frequencies,one for the yarder and one for the carriage.
The whistles are kind of like a morris code system and are supposed to be standardized throughout the industry although every different company seems to have its own quirks. High lead whistles are 3 to go ahead ,3-3 to go ahead easy, 2 to skin it back ( that's like back it up) 2-2 to skin it easy, 4 to slack the mainline, 2-1 to slack the haulback and a lot more for tightlines, straw line whistles and whistles blown on the landing calling for different kinds of rigging or maybe even a water jug or the lunches. Then there are a different set of whistles for working on a slackline or a tension skidder plus whistles to convey a message to the whole crew like, we need the hooktender, man hurt or it's quitting time (everybody loves that one)
Usually the choker setters don't use a whistle. The rigging slinger who is in charge of the chokersetters has one and uses it the most. Hooktenders have them and in the case of motorized carriages the engineer will have one.
These are used on what used to be spar trees and what now are towers. Think a moble steel tower with drums, kind of a version of a crane only built for yarding logs on rough ground to the road instead of lifting them although lifting them comes into play too.
Probably more info then you wanted but there it is.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Jun 7, 2008)

nice picks next time it rains dig more up and post them tom trees


----------



## slowp (Jun 7, 2008)

Here's a better picture of the bug/talkie tooter. I had to mess with the color to make it stand out a little better.





A closer look at setting a choker.





A Madill 071 yarder. We have a lot of units with downhill yarding here. No road building is required to do so. But it is slower and less safe for the logger.





Here is a saw going up and out to the hooktender. Unfortunately, I too was on my way up, it was way past when I should have had some food, and I didn't have my glasses with me. I've become near sighted. So, I hiked to the top and started down to talk to who I thought was a faller. It turned out to be a hooktender and his pimp (help) and they of course had no wedges so the tailtree they were cutting to derig (take the blocks and lines out of) went backwards on them. I saw them skittering away but it didn't register on my dull brain and I almost got hit by the tree. I felt the wind from the swoosh. That means I was way too close. 

I ok cutting the tail trees to derig most of the time. It is on Forest Service ground and the 'ologists want trees left on the ground for the slugs and snails and whatever else. It saves the logger time too.


----------



## Burvol (Jun 7, 2008)

slowp said:


> Here's a better picture of the bug/talkie tooter. I had to mess with the color to make it stand out a little better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's a waste of wood! I cringe at what the forest service can do when they feel like it.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Jun 7, 2008)

There are different combinations of whistles for this and that...
http://www.orosha.org/pdf/rules/division_7/div7_appendices.pdf

Talkie Tooter manufacturer...
http://www.rothenbuhlereng.com


----------



## slowp (Jun 7, 2008)

Burvol said:


> That's a waste of wood! I cringe at what the forest service can do when they feel like it.



No argument. But, by letting the hooktender fall the tail tree, I save the taxpayer a little bit, because in the newer sales, money is paid out after the sale to have a contractor come in and fall trees to leave on the ground. You'll see the tail trees along the 25 road sitting. They are left for the lizards and snails and also the market crashed so no interest in moving equipment down to pick up a dozen trees. I also have them leave any pulled over trees.


----------



## Bushler (Jun 8, 2008)

Good pics. I started working on the high lead fresh out of high school in 1966 and got in on the hayday of suspension logging. Worked around various yarders including a BU-99 Skagit and Washington Interlock. Huge machines.

The brush blocks we used on the Washington weighed 180 lbs. and broke down into three pieces.

Pic is from 1967, WeyCo, North Bend, OR. I pulled rigging on this machine for a year, then went on the cutting crew.


----------



## slowp (Jun 8, 2008)

Those are the yarders that would scare me if I looked at the top of the tower while on the landing. The tube looks so fragile and would be wobbling madly and you wonder how well the guylines are anchored, and it just was scary. I tried to never look up.


----------



## Bushler (Jun 8, 2008)

Part of my job was to grease the blocks at the top of the tower. I'd ride the pass line up to do that. I had to drop the chains when I got to the guy line blocks and climb over them to get to the grease zerks. Unchaining was a bit un-nerving. I think that tower was like 110' tall.


----------



## Bushler (Jun 8, 2008)

"Sure, I can lift and carry this block". (long enough for a pic). Pic is of me, age 19


----------



## Gologit (Jun 8, 2008)

Bushler said:


> "Sure, I can lift and carry this block". (long enough for a pic). Pic is of me, age 19



LOL...Just don't lose the pin.


----------



## Humptulips (Jun 8, 2008)

slowp said:


> Those are the yarders that would scare me if I looked at the top of the tower while on the landing. The tube looks so fragile and would be wobbling madly and you wonder how well the guylines are anchored, and it just was scary. I tried to never look up.



I been to the top of many of them but what worried me was seeing what they were built like on the inside.
I was working on a Burger mark 7 slackline and the engineer forgot to slack off his telescopng line after the dogs were in. Ended up breaking said line. Anyway we had to replace it and there is a guard on the bottom of the top section that has to be removed to do it and there happens to be a hole at ground level a man can squeeze through. I got in there and climbed up the inside of the tube to remove the guard and guide the new telescoping line. I'll tell you they did a crappy job of welding where they knew no one would see. Many of the welds were intermittent, really just spotted. I thought afterwards it's a wonder this thing hasn't buckled.


----------



## Bushler (Jun 8, 2008)

I got a chance to work Xmas vacation while I was going to college, on a BU-99 Skagit. They had it rigged North Bend style, off a skyline, (think bowstring).

The rain softened ground allowed one of the guy stumps to pull, and the engineer panicked and hit the maxis locking the drums. The next guyline broke, and the next, etc.

The yarder went down, buckling in two places like a giant Z. No one was hurt, but it broke the machine in half, shearing between the drums and the tube mount.

It was wild.


----------



## Humptulips (Jun 9, 2008)

Never had one come down on me but we pulled the mainline and haulback fairleads off a Washington 137 one time. It cut the haulback off which we were skidding with (shotgun show), skyline stayed up sidewashed over the top of the tube for a bit. The carriage turn and all came flying back down at the crew and kind of landed right by them when the skyline finally cut off. Pretty exciting!


----------



## Bushler (Jun 9, 2008)

I can still remember clearly how loud the noise was when the machine went down. We were out 4K' from the landing and it sounded like the loudest thunder you ever heard.

When the tube broke free it snapped a whip in the skyline that would send the carriage up the hill toward us...then the chokers would come tight on the turn of logs and stop the carriage from hitting us.

The engineer was in shock. When we got to the landing he was still in the cab, uninjured, and mumbling incoherently. The chaser's story was good. He said it was like skipping rope dodging guylines.

The shovel had moved down the road to fuel, and the trucks were parked in the clear waiting for the shovel. Amazing nobody was hurt.


----------



## tramp bushler (Jun 9, 2008)

*other chocker dog related items*

They are called dogs because they sometimes need to dig chocker holes under logs ..
The boots we all wear in the PNW ,BC and Alaska are called CORKS even tho it is spelled the same as what you seal a bath tub with [ caulk ]
Tho they often times have hob nails on them, it is the corks that keep you alive and upright , and sometimes the Triconies .....Some guys don,t put alot of thot into thier corks , some like Humptulips and I put alot into them .. I have mine built in Victoria BC .

The quiting whistle is - shave and a hair cut , 2 bits ...
In Southeast and south central Alaska , the standard tower was a 009 Madill 
The standard chocker was 33 ft long 1" dia wire rope ... There is only 1 cable on a tower , that is the SKYLINE CABLE ., Cable up ,,, Cable down ... All the rest have a name .,., Mail line , skidding line , haul back , receeding line strawline & hay wire are the same now a days . guylines , and chockers ...They are usually made from 6 , 19 , wire rope of different sizes ... 
A [ jagger ] is a broken wire in a section of any type of wire rope and they hurt like hell when they jab into you , sometimes with deadly consequences ...That is why riggin men where cotton gloves and not leather ......


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 9, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> ...That is why riggin men where cotton gloves and not leather ......



Why is that? Seems like leather would slow it down more than cotton.

Ian


----------



## 2dogs (Jun 9, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> They are called dogs because they sometimes need to dig chocker holes under logs ..
> The boots we all wear in the PNW ,BC and Alaska are called CORKS even tho it is spelled the same as what you seal a bath tub with [ caulk ]
> Tho they often times have hob nails on them, it is the corks that keep you alive and upright , and sometimes the Triconies .....Some guys don,t put alot of thot into thier corks , some like Humptulips and I put alot into them .. I have mine built in Victoria BC .
> 
> ...



I am assuming you typoed with "mail line", should have been main line? Our Koller only has a skyline cable, haulback, and mainline. The guyline winches are all manual. I should be able to post some pics of the yarder in a couple weeks. It will be here for new brakes before the next job.


----------



## slowp (Jun 9, 2008)

I forgot. This came with the purchase of the Moneypit. There are rustic or rusty things hung on the well house. Here's a bigger choker than is used around here today.







And a closeup of the business end.


----------



## Gologit (Jun 9, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Why is that? Seems like leather would slow it down more than cotton.
> 
> Ian



A jagger will rip out a cotton glove and maybe a piece of hide along with it. Hide heals. A leather glove might not give as much and you could wind up losing an arm or dislocating a shoulder etc. etc. When those jaggers grab you you want to get away from them. When it happens it happens fast and tearing out a cotton glove is the easiest on the body.


----------



## Jacob J. (Jun 9, 2008)

http://cdbaby.com/cd/buzzmartin

*4 - Sick of Setting Chokers*


----------



## Humptulips (Jun 9, 2008)

When I first started out on the chokers we were flying 1 1/8" and had a 1 3/8" bull choker we used ocasionally. 10 years later we were flying 1" or 7/8" with a 1 1/8" bull chokers. Now a days you're lucky enough to have 1 1/8 skyline. The way things are going we'll be using our shoelaces for chokers one of these days.


----------



## Humptulips (Jun 9, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I am assuming you typoed with "mail line", should have been main line? Our Koller only has a skyline cable, haulback, and mainline. The guyline winches are all manual. I should be able to post some pics of the yarder in a couple weeks. It will be here for new brakes before the next job.



Crimeny sakes. I hooked on one of them for about 6 months. Most pitiful excuse for a yarder I ever saw.


----------



## E&A QCI (Jun 10, 2008)

*Whistles*

In BC 3 short is go ahead, 1 long and 3 short go ahead slow, 2 short 2 short is back, 1 short stop, series of shorts slack the rigging. I have some training films on setting chokers, but I can't figure out how to convert them from DVD to Youtube. Generally, the guy with the bug is the rigging slinger, with two chokermen working with him. Be sure to go to www.youtube.com/jusportel and watch steel spars, log loaders, chokermen, etc. in action!


----------



## E&A QCI (Jun 10, 2008)

Bushler said:


> I can still remember clearly how loud the noise was when the machine went down. We were out 4K' from the landing and it sounded like the loudest thunder you ever heard.
> 
> When the tube broke free it snapped a whip in the skyline that would send the carriage up the hill toward us...then the chokers would come tight on the turn of logs and stop the carriage from hitting us.
> 
> ...



Quite a few Madill yarders had the tops snap off the pipe, sometimes with fatal results. Also, if a log jill poked the pipe, denting it, they could buckle at the bottom. More than a few Skagit and Tyee towers collapsed when the dogs failed, causing the two pipe sections to telescope. A Madill can tip over if a back quarter hangs up, while the pipe is still on the ram. Amazing that more guys didn't get killed on them things! Especially on the 009, with the cab right at the base of the pipe. I remember hearing about a jillpoke coming right into the cab, killing the engineer.


----------



## slowp (Jun 10, 2008)

Humptulips said:


> Crimeny sakes. I hooked on one of them for about 6 months. Most pitiful excuse for a yarder I ever saw.



The one going here works well in the thinnings. It is two brothers, both cut, then one sets chokers while one loads and drives truck. Their dad is the yarder engineer. They have an extension on the tube.

They also have a processor which they use for bucking and limbing on the landing. They moved over here from Eastern WA and took up skyline logging and learned quickly. I guess the two brothers started out by skidder logging blowdown on the eastside.


----------

