# Anybody Using DEDA???



## rahtreelimbs (Dec 9, 2003)

Is anyone out there using a version of Tom Dunlap's Dual End Dual Adjustable lanyard?


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 11, 2003)

This is the DEDA system that I put together. As soon as the time and the weather make themselves available I 'll give it a whirl.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

Thats is what I have always used on my 18 foot wirecore, adjuster on one and a hitch on the other.



Carl


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *Thats is what I have always used on my 18 foot wirecore, adjuster on one and a hitch on the other.
> 
> 
> ...




18 feet? Geez, Carl! How big ARE them trees up in noreast MS?


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *Thats is what I have always used on my 18 foot wirecore, adjuster on one and a hitch on the other.
> 
> 
> ...




Wire core fliplines, while they have their place in removals, are just too stiff, bulky and downright uncooperative to be used on trimwork.


I don't know if I will like this DEDA setup or not. I am just trying to benefit from Tom Dunlop's experience and knowledge!


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## SilverBlue (Dec 11, 2003)

I was thinking of trying it myself, sure could have used it today.
Carl, how do you manage to lug an 18 ft wirecore around?


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## mikecross23 (Dec 11, 2003)

I don't know if I will like this DEDA setup or not. I am just trying to benefit from Tom Dunlop's experience and knowledge! [/B][/QUOTE]

I think it would be GREAT for a long hike up a limby pine. I use my life line as a second lanyard when going up on a removal. Not often I need more than 2 tie ins. Today was an exeption. Just used the end of my life line though.

I like my hand saw there too.

-Mike-


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

That 59 incher was over 15 foot around. On big trees (over 42") it comes in handy, on smaller trees I DEDA it and take advanage of its length. Also when I am trimin I trow it over a limb far off, hook it back to me, and I can hang over beside the limb I am workin on no problem. Admitidly the length gets in the way sometimes, but overal I like it, I also use long and short rope lanyard/ mini lifelines.



Carl


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *on smaller trees I DEDA it and take advanage of its length.
> 
> Carl *




How in the world can you "DEDA" a wirecore flipline???

With all due respect Carl, do you know what DEDA stands for?


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

"With all due respect Carl, do you know what DEDA stands for?"

Yea thats why I said it. I use a Ulta Tech with a ditsel or swabish normally, and a micopulley as a slack tender. I put a biner on the end of the wire core, where it is has the spliced eye to keep it from fallin out the cam. 

Not that hard if you think about it. What is so hard for you to understand?

Carl


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

Oh yea it stands for Double Ended Double Adjusted. Your pic made it clear what you were talkin about.


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *Not that hard if you think about it. What is so hard for you to understand?
> 
> Carl *





I haven't heard anyone using this technique with a steelcore flipline.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

As you say ignorance is bliss!

Cartl


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## TREETX (Dec 11, 2003)

Then you must be really happy toting around 18ft of wirecore.


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## Lumberjack (Dec 11, 2003)

It gets the job done, but that is just me. Most of my work is removals, mabye 25% of it is trimmin, but when I trim I am there forever doin all there trees!! 

I am also like regular rope lanyard for trimmin, but I like them long and daisy up the rest.


Carl


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 11, 2003)

We need spellcheck!!!


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## xander9727 (Dec 11, 2003)

I just use a prussic in the middle of a double ended twelve foot lanyard. If you use a Sherrill 30" tenex prussic loop it doesn't lock too tight. It is alot cheaper and lighter than the set up in the picture. I use a steel core twelve foot flip line on removals with a tenex prussic. I never have trouble adjusting the line although it does require two hands to shorten it (unless your willing to use your teeth).


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *It is alot cheaper and lighter than the set up in the picture. *




I was fortunate to have all these parts already. Like I said the jury is still out. I am just trying to keep to progression moving.


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## xander9727 (Dec 11, 2003)

I think trying new techniques is important. Like you, I try new ideas if they're feasible. I've tried similar set ups and the time saved (for me at least) doesn't justify the cost or the hassle associated with them. To each is own. I'm sure some of my techniques would be burdensome to other climbers.


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## Ax-man (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Hoffman _
> *I was fortunate to have all these parts already. Like I said the jury is still out. I am just trying to keep to progression moving. *


____________________________________________________


Hey Rich,

Have you had a chance to use the DEDA lanyard? I've been waiting to hear what your opinion is on this one.


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 28, 2003)

I have a saddle that I'm demoing so I wanted to leave my Positioners on my butterfly. When I set up the DEDA on the demo saddle I put the lanyard rope through the d-rings and tied the adjuster, I use a Distel, right onto the d-rings. This is an idea that I got from Spidey. 

Using the d-rings instead of biners makes the adjuster shorter and the whole setup less complex. 

I'm using some 11mm rope for the DEDA. The arbo rope in your pics looks so big to my eye 

Tom


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 28, 2003)

Tom, thanx for asking.

With the weather on the colder side, jobs have been less frequent. However I did do a couple small jobs. I only used the front or normal part of the lanyard so far. The DEDA will be a keeper. The only thing that I am trying to work out is how everything gets hooked up to the left/main d-ring. I am finding it a difficult to take up slack, mostly because the two micro pulleys run into one and other. I think I have found a solution though. I didn't want to tie directly to the d-ring because I want the ability to move the main lanyard to my front d-ring ( master saddle ) for use as a second TIP. I am thinking that if I keep the rear part of the DEDA attached to one of my accessory loops until I need it that will keep it out of the way.

Any thoughts on this Tom would be appreciated!


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 28, 2003)

I have one adjuster on each hip. I would take the right, purple pulley, and put it on the other side.

Using the distel keeps the friction hitch shorter too. The rope doesn't have to be pulled as far to compress the hitch. My distel is snugged up tight to the d-ring.

Tom


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## Ax-man (Apr 4, 2004)

I joined the DEDA club about six weeks ago. It is a much better set-up than using the the 2 in 1 lanyard, I never cared for that kind of lanyard because one side would be either too long or to short. The second adjuster eliminates this problem.

Having the extra length for this this kind of lanyard has also been helpful. After working your way out to the end of a limb, the extra length gives you those few extra precious steps when going backwards to where you can unhook and start to use your climbing line. The DEDA will save the need to double crotch.

The real beauty of it comes into play when your level with your TIP or have to go above it for what ever reason. You have an extra split tail type climbing system when your climbing line is tied in. Also when your out on the end of a limb the second lanyard adjuster part of this set-up allows you three points of contact with just ropes alone, if you were to count your feet there would be five, extremely stable and comfortable.

The only drawback to the system is the extra loops that can tangled on branches or around your feet, you just have to keep an eye on everything and adjust accordingly.

But I must give credit where credit is due, that is to Tom D. All I can say is thank you, your DEDA has helped overcome situations that in the past would have been a struggle, that now are a piece of cake to overcome.

Larry


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 4, 2004)

I've been using a grillon for the last couple years up until this week, I went with the knut knot attached to my right d ring,,it's attached w/ a s.s. no snag bow shackle,,this way it smaller and shorter than a biner...I soppose i could just tie fishermans but i like spliced eyes w/ the ultra tech as the cord. The tail end of the lanyard runs through the d ring which in effect acts as a slack tender..It actually works really well...one handed adjustment,, the micro pulley was just one extra piece i didn't need..I agree w/ tom on the idea of keeping the hitchs short..Rich you might think about getting rid of the vt w/ the micro pulleys...This aught to minimize and compact the whole setup..and it shouldn't affect the performance of adjustment...I'm using 11mm also as tom is...Give it a shot...Les weight...I'd like to be using the Fly but i don't know where i can buy short pieces of this...HUMMMM????Anyone know...Anyone have the splicing directions?


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## Guy Meilleur (Apr 4, 2004)

I tried the DEDA (Thanks Tom) and see its advantages, but am loathe to trust those aduster gizmoes all the time. I went back to using the standard lanyard, and always have my 10mm short climbing line to use if the lanyard is too short.

Sorry Tom I trust knots and snaps, but wonder if adjusters can fail.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 4, 2004)

Tom have you had an problems w/ the adjusters? I know that like on the lock jack once the cams get worn that they tend to creap slightly,,I'm sure this would take longer to occur on adjusters ;but theoretically i soppose it could happen. I think i'll stick w/ the hitches either way though,,i'm not about to shell out that kind of money for lanyard adjusters...I like them they just seem really pricey for what they are..


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 4, 2004)

O just got out of some oaks about 1.5 hours ago. The DEDA was useful. What a great place to spend a Sunday working. Right on the MN side of the St. Croix River. I got to look across the river at WI. The ice just went out so boat traffic was minimum. Only about four all day.

The o-rings on my Positioner's broke but they still lock off. I'm going to stop and get some new ones though. I suppose they might slip some. I think that it will take a long time to wear the cams on the P since there isn't a lot of rope runing through the unit. Also, the lanyard rope stays cleaner so there is less abrasion I think.

I think that a short-bridge hitch tied directly to the d-ring as the slack tender would work just about as smooth. I replace the side d's on my B'fly saddle with delta Maillon Rapide screw links. 

The loops do get snagged once in a while but that is such a minor negative for a system that has so many positives.

Tom


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## rahtreelimbs (Apr 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Rich you might think about getting rid of the vt w/ the micro pulleys *



I know what you mean about the extra length that the VT gives. The VT is so smooth I just don't use anything else. Once you get accustom to the free-play ( for lack of a better word ) of the Vt it isn't so bad.

As for the micro pulleys, I had them on hand so I use 'em.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 4, 2004)

That's cool, whatever you're comfy w/. It works right,,,don't fix something if it don't need fixin.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 5, 2004)

My buddy likes the one i made for him; i prefer just one sided lanyard tied straight to D, with D doubling as tender; though on a test spin, this did work real well, fresh from the factory!

He just brought it back, cuz it seems someone figured out they could use the chords....

After, reading the posts, i've made one hitch a distel; instead of both Knuts; leaving the slack for him to make up his own mind; but fresh/new the Knut seems so much nicer.

The screw link provides semi-permanenet, light, discreet link; that doubles as tender, for angles and times Knut isn't well mannered. The screwlink barely fits around the host lanyard, squarely stopping the friction hitch from 2 opposing sides pushing evenly (mostly).

The Screwlink should be tightened well with a long handled wrench.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 6, 2004)

Very nice TS When and where do you get the time to draw up these diagrams... You amaze me sometimes..


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## JonnyHart (Apr 6, 2004)

That looks awesome. I gotta get try that.


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 6, 2004)

BE careful when tightening MRs with wrenches. They only need a little snugging. Definetly not white knuckle tight.

If the sleeve is tightened too much it distorts the link. This can damage the threads too. Snug not tight is all that's needed.

Tom


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## JonnyHart (Apr 6, 2004)

Does the screwlink work like a micro pulley on yer climbing ? Without it do you gotta use both hands to advance yer hitch? If so, it really isn't critical enough to worry about taking a wrench to it. Just make sure it's hand tight before ya put yer belt on. If it fails, it's an inconveniance not a hazard, right? Maybe I don't understand, but the link ain't part of the hitch is it? Pardon me if I am so lost that I should be banished to the searh engine


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## a_lopa (Apr 6, 2004)

using two lanyards clipped together works for me double length dual adjustment


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 6, 2004)

i didn't mean to hammer it tight to distort, but not to just put on by hand; Tom is right i'm sure.

The link is the tender and the mount to saddle; so you don't want it to open.


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## JonnyHart (Apr 6, 2004)

Oh, I see. I gotta try that.Disregard my previous post, had to look at the pic again.


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## 046 (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanks to Tom D, I'm using a DEDA on 16 strand safty blue w/9mm sterling for the distal. 

I've simply got the distals attached directly to the side D's and a brass snap to tend the back loop, very smooth. I'm using triple fisherman (barrel) to terminate into a steel self locking carabiner (need to get the sherill big aluminum) as I trust my abilities more someone else's splice.

Mine is 18 ft total, which does get in the way sometime. The advantages out weight drawbacks especially in Oaks.


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 10, 2004)

The Sherrill 16010 al snap is a nice one for a lanyard. If you can find a vendor with the older ones, they're better. Just a little smaller.

Do you use the brass snap in the middle of the saddle to keep the tail up?

Glad to hear that you're liking the DEDA. It really isn't entirely my invention. It was a work in progress with input from some good people. 

I've been using some 11.5 mm gym rope. Soft lay but still plenty strong.

Tom


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## 046 (Apr 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Tom Dunlap _
> *The Sherrill 16010 al snap is a nice one for a lanyard. If you can find a vendor with the older ones, they're better. Just a little smaller.
> 
> Do you use the brass snap in the middle of the saddle to keep the tail up?
> ...



Tom, Thanks again. I've been lurking and reading your posts for sometime now. Trying to learn all I can. 

Yes the brass snap is in the middle of saddle suporting the loop. Couldn't function without it.

Thanks for the tip on which sherrill snap to get. I'll be on the hunt for two.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 11, 2004)

i simply tail the lanyard through the D, using that as tender for the friction hitch tied to the D. Kinda like the pic posted of lanyard maid for buddy, onlywithout the quick link mounts.


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## 046 (Mar 4, 2007)

bump for an oldie but goodie!


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## SRT-Tech (Mar 4, 2007)

toting around an 18' or longer wirecore is nothing. Try trimming all day up in a tree, hauling an old metal Husky 61 with 20" bar..........The wirecoe at that point feel like dental floss light....:biggrinbounce2:


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 4, 2007)

SRT-Tech said:


> toting around an 18' or longer wirecore is nothing. Try trimming all day up in a tree, hauling an old metal Husky 61 with 20" bar..........The wirecoe at that point feel like dental floss light....:biggrinbounce2:



You wouldn't catch me with either!!!

Nice to see a 3 yr. old thread I started come back!!!


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 4, 2007)

I will add that I no longer use the DEDA. Just a 10 ft. lanyard with an ART positioner.


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## 046 (Mar 4, 2007)

is this the one?

that's $130 at fresco's

http://www.ecomecs.com/cgi-bin/fres...8-35889&WSC1029184047-32481&1068488309-64683#











rahtreelimbs said:


> I will add that I no longer use the DEDA. Just a 10 ft. lanyard with an ART positioner.


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 4, 2007)

This is a pic of a Positioner. This is Tom's setup.


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## 046 (Mar 4, 2007)

this is from fresco's site... so has everyone switched to ART instead of DEDA?


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## JonnyHart (Mar 8, 2007)

046 said:


> is this the one?
> 
> that's $130 at fresco's
> 
> http://www.ecomecs.com/cgi-bin/fres...8-35889&WSC1029184047-32481&1068488309-64683#



Jeez, where's the splice? 

I had Nick make me a custom DEDA lanyard, 20 feet long, snap and plastic thimble on each end, and I used a pair of gibbs for adjusting, one on each hip, with all the slack stashed on the back of my saddle when not in use. It was just too much weight, too much stuff. I now use A.L.T. (alternating lanyard technique) if I need two lanyards. My 10' flipline with gibbs, and my climbing line with icicle hitch. I still keep the 20' in my bag, just in case.


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## Soul Assassin (Mar 9, 2007)

Good idea. I use a 6 foot steel core, with a ascender on a split tail system.


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## Tom Dunlap (Mar 14, 2007)

rahtreelimbs said:


> This is a pic of a Positioner. This is Tom's setup.
> 
> I don't use Positioners now for my lanyard. Using the d-ring as a direct slack tender is less complex. Also, the adjustment is quicker since the length from the slack tender to the bottom of the hitch is so short.
> 
> ...


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## Ax-man (Mar 14, 2007)

046 said:


> this is from fresco's site... so has everyone switched to ART instead of DEDA?
> 
> 
> I am still using a DEDA, I like it, I myself would not spend $130 for an adjuster, I would go back to using a big Gibbs cam adjuster before buying an ART.
> ...


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## Tom Dunlap (Mar 14, 2007)

The part of the DEDA system that I use the most is the longer lanyard. To use the length I fish out the slack to the left side. Occasionally I'll use both ends in DEDA fashion though. 

The most common use of DEDA is during ascent in a brushy tree or excurrent where there are 'ladder' steps to climb. Another common use is to find the perfect support way out in the canopy. Many times the extra lanyard end is just for balance not really as full weight body support.


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## Blinky (Mar 16, 2007)

I rigged up my long lanyard for DEDA after reading this thread and used it Wednesday in a big spreading Willow Oak (twig city). I used the second end once so I could unclip my whole rope and pull it around a lead after working to the opposite side on double crotches. That was a cool climb BTW... went up on one side of the house, walked limbs over the roof and descended on the other side.

It was just too much stuff to deal with, I already have too much stuff anyway. The twigs snagging in the knots and pulleys was a time waisting hassle. One thing that was nice though, I rigged up one adjuster with eye-eye beeline, a Distel and a pulley... I was just using a prussic before. I like the one handed adjustment a LOT better.

Yesterday I took the second end and adjuster (prussic) off and it was much better.

I use a second split tail for double crotching and recently added a pulley to it... I'm ditching that second pulley to, I keep it tied with a long bridge so the pulley doesn't help much anyway.

All in all, the second adjustable end doesn't help much in the big spreading trees I climb most often. I'm using both ends of my rope so, with a single ended lanyard so effectively I have three possible tie-ins.

What I want to know now is... how do you keep the tail of a long lanyard out of the way and still be able to use the full length with one hand?


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## Tom Dunlap (Mar 16, 2007)

If you climb with a harness that has small d-rings you can thread the rope through the ring and use it as a slack tender. This is a much more streamlined setup than using a snap and pulley...cheaper too!

If you climb with a long single ended lanyard secure the bitter end of the lanyard to your harness just behind your side d-ring. That way the long lanyard can make two bights and hang neatly by your side.

In the pics you'll see an easy way of adding a slack tender. If you use a double ended lanyard with the brass snap all you have to do is unclip the snap from the d-ring when you use the red end of the lanyard. Otherwise the snap will act as a slacktender on top of the hitch and let you drop


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 16, 2007)

Tom, I see in the pics that you have a hitch on your right and left D-rings. Is this the way you always did this?

When I used the DEDA I had the whole setup connected to the left side.


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## Tom Dunlap (Mar 21, 2007)

Having them on each side keeps things much more tidy.


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