# Introducing Brand New Wood Furnace to Market - The Drolet Tundra!



## Fyrebug

Click for larger picture

View attachment 285652


So Folks, we asked you what you wanted in a furnace and there you have it...

Thanks for all your input!

More to come...


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## Fyrebug

Click for larger picture

View attachment 285655


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## laynes69

Not a bad looking furnace. What's its specs, and how does it vary from the Caddy Line?


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## Whitespider

Awww man... it's the wrong color, it won't match the decor in my basement :biggrinbounce2:


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## brenndatomu

They'll paint it any color you want if ya order 2 spidey!


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## Fyrebug

Whitespider said:


> Awww man... it's the wrong color, it won't match the decor in my basement :biggrinbounce2:



How's this one then?

View attachment 285671


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## Whitespider

Ummmm... yeah, ya' got me, flat black would fit right in.
Actually I'm intrigued... waiting for more info...


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## brenndatomu

Yeah, don't _tease_! Out wit it!


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## FLHX Storm

N what is your definition of "Affordable?" 

In other words, how much does the beast cost? :msp_scared:


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## Whitespider

I tend to ignore descriptivisms like "affordable"... way to relative.
Heck, if ya' live in a cardboard box a new door ain't "affordable".


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## Steve NW WI

Subscribing.

Sure as heck ain't hauling another stove down the stairs though! I still ain't got the old one out yet.


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## dave_dj1

What's the reasoning for a glass door?


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## Fyrebug

There will be two version of it. Black one = HeatMax and the Beige = Tundra. For different market. More or less same unit.

If you remember a couple of months ago I asked users on AS to tell me their wish list for a wood furnace. Glass door was high on the list. The air was is great so the glass stays clean. No smoke baffle in front of the door to burn your hand.

I'll give more info and pricing very shortly. 

View attachment 285756


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## blades

Shivering while waiting for pricing and more details.


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## Jredsjeep

dave_dj1 said:


> What's the reasoning for a glass door?



i dont have a furnace but it makes it so much easier to see how things are going in my wood stove. without touching the door or running outside to see the chinmey i can tell if i need to add wood or change the air intake at a glance if it is smoldering. 


plus i like to see the pretty flames:hmm3grin2orange:


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## dave_dj1

The only reason I asked was that most "furnaces" are tucked away in a basement, not usually where one would sit and enjoy the view. It appears they did their research and that's what people wanted, good for them.


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## spike60

dave_dj1 said:


> What's the reasoning for a glass door?



Makes hanging out in the basement with a couple of beers far more enjoyable.


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## brenndatomu

Basement = mancave - which needs fire TV, right?! :msp_thumbsup:


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## blades

Fire - Good, Beer - Good, Incessant whining of female upstairs - Bad

2 out 3 ain't to shabby.


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## A.S.Woodchucker

I will take one for the team and test this new furnace....send one to northern Indiana and I'll tell you how i like it!!:smile2:!


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## Steve NW WI

blades said:


> Fire - Good, Beer - Good, Incessant whining of female upstairs - Bad
> 
> 2 out 3 ain't to shabby.



The good thing about the forced air furnace - you can shut the basement door to block the whining, and she still gets heat - to keep the whining from getting too loud!


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## Fyrebug

A.S.Woodchucker said:


> I will take one for the team and test this new furnace....send one to northern Indiana and I'll tell you how i like it!!:smile2:!



If you're near Shipshewanna you wont need a blower right? :msp_wink:


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## spike60

blades said:


> Fire - Good, Beer - Good, Incessant whining of female upstairs - Bad
> 
> 2 out 3 ain't to shabby.



Yeah, but isn't #3 the reason you're down in the basement in the first place? :msp_razz:


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## Muffler Bearing




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## Cbird14

impatiently waiting for more details:yoyo:


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## FLHX Storm

blades said:


> Fire - Good, Beer - Good, Incessant whining of female upstairs - Bad
> 
> 2 out 3 ain't to shabby.



:msp_tongue: :msp_flapper: 


:hmm3grin2orange:


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## FLHX Storm

If y'all are having beer in the basement, I'm joining y'all. (n I don't whine about anything)


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## A.S.Woodchucker

Fyrebug said:


> If you're near Shipshewanna you wont need a blower right? :msp_wink:



a little farther south than shipshewanaa, I am a pretty big fan of electricity!!


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## Fyrebug

Retail should be around $1,699 - $1,899

Keep in mind that while this is slightly higher than your standard Hotblast or Daka... It will save you about 50% on wood consumption.

It comes standard with a 1,000 CFM blower. 4 plenum round outlet, automatic damper (on thermoswitch). Optional thermostat kit and cold air return kit.

Available in September.

Questions? Ask away...


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## blades

Flue size? Any more details on the auto damper ( pet peeve area of mine on hot blast)


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## laynes69

That's a good price, considering it has a heat exchanger, secondary combustion and can qualify for tax credits. What's the drawer on the bottom, and what's the size of the firebox?


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## Fyrebug

laynes69 said:


> That's a good price, considering it has a heat exchanger, secondary combustion and can qualify for tax credits. What's the drawer on the bottom, and what's the size of the firebox?



Auto damper on thermodisk switch measures firebox temp and open & close damper based on this. On power outage damper closes for safety reason. Damper is on intake (primary) combustion air.

The thermostat kit includes thermostat and fan limit kit. It will control the primary air damper. 

Flue size 6"

Laynes... This is basically the Caddy firebox. Same heat exchanger. same firebox. Different blower & plenum hookup. Also, no option for oil or electrical. We've increased the size of the ash drawer that you see at the bottom. Also smaller than the Caddy.

We designed the physical size so if you already have an old Hotblast, Daka, Norseman etc... all you have to do is unhook the old furnace and the Tundra will fit in the same footprint and hook to the same round outlets.


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## brenndatomu

Sounds like a good value.
Made in Canukastan?
Warranty?
Is 4 spd blower motor, auto spd control to maintain target temp or wire motor to desired spd?


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## stihly dan

If the thermo switch controls the primary damper? For EPA. Does the T-stat over ride the thermo disc only to open more on a call for heat.


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## laynes69

With the damper control, is it load and go?


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## loadthestove

will they be available in local stores,,tractor supply ,southern states etc .or factory direct only.
I'm very interested in one to replace my hotblast,but i really like to look things over before i purchase


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## Fyrebug

Sorry Mis-spoke on the primary air damper. It it on a on/off wall switch. On power outage damper automatically close. The thermodisk measures the firebox temps. Kick in point of 125f blower comes on. Kick out point of 115f.

Thermostat kit measures plenum temps and controls the damper. The thermodisk still controls the blower. 

We're working on listing the retails stores but likely at Menards, Family Farm and others. Will also be available online at various e-tailers like Northern Tools.


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## Fyrebug

Del_ said:


> Looks interesting!
> 
> Would it work OK in a greenhouse environment?
> 
> Will DHW be an option?



Thanks

No problem for greenhouse but typically for 24hrs control most of the greenhouse application gravitate toward our Alterna Pellet furnace.

No hot water option on the Drolet. However, this is available on the PSG Caddy line.


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## Fyrebug

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds like a good value.
> Made in Canukastan?
> Warranty?
> Is 4 spd blower motor, auto spd control to maintain target temp or wire motor to desired spd?



Yes, made in the land of freezing cold weather, super high taxes and "free" health care 

Warranty is Limited Lifetime: http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/garanties/Warranty31-3.pdf

Fixed speed motor. By right if you take a static pressure reading, you then determine what is the best speed for your system. 

On the PSG Caddy line we are working on a DC version so if needed you could run your furnace off a battery.


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## Fyrebug

Del_ said:


> As I'm in the tree biz I will not be buying pellets!
> 
> I'll look closer at the caddy as I need a way to warm water for watering plants.



What square footage?


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## stihly dan

Fyrebug said:


> Sorry Mis-spoke on the primary air damper. It it on a on/off wall switch. On power outage damper automatically close. The thermodisk measures the firebox temps. Kick in point of 125f blower comes on. Kick out point of 115f.
> 
> Thermostat kit measures plenum temps and controls the damper. The thermodisk still controls the blower.
> 
> We're working on listing the retails stores but likely at Menards, Family Farm and others. Will also be available online at various e-tailers like Northern Tools.



So if you don't by the t-stat kit. The operation of the fire box is manual? How then do you open the damper? Or is the blower a combustion blower? Sorry for all the questions, just can't make sense of it. I would think thermo disc controls damper, T-stat controls blower, or blower and damper.


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## 4seasons

What about dimensions? Particularly the firebox, what size logs will it take? And what sq/ft is it rated to heat? Oh by the way does it have a shaker grate or just an ash clean out?


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## hapec12

*Tundra:*

What are the B.T.U.'s? I have a 36'X52' garage with 12' ceiling. Need something BIG. 
Available where in southern Michigan? T.S.C. in my town.
Thank You.


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## brenndatomu

hapec12 said:


> What are the B.T.U.'s? I have a 36'X52' garage with 12' ceiling. Need something BIG.
> Available where in southern Michigan? T.S.C. in my town.
> Thank You.



Post #14, 130k BTU.


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## laynes69

I would think that rating of 130,000 btus would be input, output would be lower. Still, for a EPA certified unit, it's a large firebox.


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## WidowMaker

hapec12 said:


> What are the B.T.U.'s? I have a 36'X52' garage with 12' ceiling. Need something BIG.
> Available where in southern Michigan? T.S.C. in my town.
> Thank You.





Thats only appr 1900 sq ft, if its insulated you shouldn't need anything that BIG.

Many of us are heating more with less...


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## Streblerm

hapec12 said:


> What are the B.T.U.'s? I have a 36'X52' garage with 12' ceiling. Need something BIG.
> Available where in southern Michigan? T.S.C. in my town.
> Thank You.



You might want to do a heat loss calculation for your building. Figuring out if a heating device will work based on square footage claims is kind of like buying face cords.

Home Heat Loss Calculator

12' ceilings make your building different to heat than a typical house with 8' walls.


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## Fyrebug

stihly dan said:


> So if you don't by the t-stat kit. The operation of the fire box is manual? How then do you open the damper? Or is the blower a combustion blower? Sorry for all the questions, just can't make sense of it. I would think thermo disc controls damper, T-stat controls blower, or blower and damper.



Without T-stat, the distribution blower kicks on & off with the thermodisk much like a blower on an insert. The damper is operated manually on an on/off electrical switch. The reason for the electrical on/off on the damper is to meet UL safety if the power goes out the plenum temps dont over reach safe limits.

There is no combustion blower.

T-stat kit operates the damper while the distribution blower still is on the thermodisk kick on/off temps.


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## hapec12

*Drolet:*



Streblerm said:


> You might want to do a heat loss calculation for your building. Figuring out if a heating device will work based on square footage claims is kind of like buying face cords.
> 
> Home Heat Loss Calculator
> 
> 12' ceilings make your building different to heat than a typical house with 8' walls.



Thanks for the Calculator. It's a new garage. Trying to figure all angles before investing. The insulation will go in this summer, and wondering about sidewall insulation, weather to use fiberglass, or spray foam, or what. Ceiling to be sheet steel, with blown insulation on top.
Still have plenty to do before building a fire.


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## Fyrebug

Like any other heating appliances stats you have to take a few things into consideration:

Square footage: It depends on your insulation, height of ceiling, location of house, latitude, prevailing winds etc...

BTU: is rated like any other wood furnace in the industry... Input BTU on high fire. All the literature is not completed yet but we also list an "average BTU" that is a rule of thumb typical BTU output over the life of the fire as if it was a gas or oil furnace. That rating is about 65,000 BTU over the life of the fire. Again, if you are on the west coast or Alaska you have to adjust for soft wood.

As somebody else mentioned a heat loss calculation or blower test will reveal what kind of BTU load your house is under and size the furnace accordingly. 

As I've said many times before... Wood burning is an inexact science.

However, you may want to ask Laynes69 about his experience since he has a very similar firebox.


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## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> What are the B.T.U.'s? I have a 36'X52' garage with 12' ceiling. Need something BIG.
> Available where in southern Michigan? T.S.C. in my town.
> Thank You.



Do you have a Family Farm near by? I'll be in Muskegon in a couple of weeks.


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## hapec12

*Drolet:*



Fyrebug said:


> Do you have a Family Farm near by? I'll be in Muskegon in a couple of weeks.



Muskegon is about 125 miles away. We have a T.S.C. store locally. I'm between Jackson and Battle Creek,Mi.


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## Streblerm

hapec12 said:


> Thanks for the Calculator. It's a new garage. Trying to figure all angles before investing. The insulation will go in this summer, and wondering about sidewall insulation, weather to use fiberglass, or spray foam, or what. Ceiling to be sheet steel, with blown insulation on top.
> Still have plenty to do before building a fire.



that calculator seems to work pretty well. I believe it came a lot closer to my home's heating needs than the "pro calculation" that was done when I put in my heat pump.


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## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> Muskegon is about 125 miles away. We have a T.S.C. store locally. I'm between Jackson and Battle Creek,Mi.



There's a FF in Mason & Battle Creek. They wont have any to show until late August early Sept.


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## hapec12

*Drolet Tundra:*



Fyrebug said:


> There's a FF in Mason & Battle Creek. They wont have any to show until late August early Sept.



Thank You. I will be Impatiently waiting to see one when they arrive.


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## hapec12

*Drolet Tundra:*

Your Literature states that it will heat up to 2500 sq.ft.. Is that figured with a 8 ft. ceiling? As in 50X50X8. Mine is 36X52X12. 2464 cu.ft. more.
Am I thinking correctly?


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## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> Your Literature states that it will heat up to 2500 sq.ft.. Is that figured with a 8 ft. ceiling? As in 50X50X8. Mine is 36X52X12. 2464 cu.ft. more.
> Am I thinking correctly?



How old is the house, how is it partitioned, what is the level of insulation, what are you currently using to heat it with, if oil/gas what is the BTU value of the furnace and does it cycle fast?

As you can tell by the questions, every situation is different. A brand new 3,000 Sq Ft house that is LEEDS or 2000 certified (really tight house in Canada for ex. ) the furnace will do quite well... the ductwork design will also determine what is required.

If you have an old stone 2,000 sq ft farmhouse with little insulation on top of a hill in Northern Wisconsin you will have problems.

Sorry, dont want to discourage anyone but this is one of those question that could really come back to haunt you if you dont do your homework. 

The heat/loss calculation somebody posted here will help as well as a blower test performed by a professional. Besides that, you may want to tell us as much as possible about your house, age, insulation, material, current furnace(s), pictures etc... and we can provide a rough estimate.


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## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> How old is the house, how is it partitioned, what is the level of insulation, what are you currently using to heat it with, if oil/gas what is the BTU value of the furnace and does it cycle fast?
> 
> As you can tell by the questions, every situation is different. A brand new 3,000 Sq Ft house that is LEEDS or 2000 certified (really tight house in Canada for ex. ) the furnace will do quite well... the ductwork design will also determine what is required.
> 
> If you have an old stone 2,000 sq ft farmhouse with little insulation on top of a hill in Northern Wisconsin you will have problems.
> 
> Sorry, dont want to discourage anyone but this is one of those question that could really come back to haunt you if you dont do your homework.
> 
> The heat/loss calculation somebody posted here will help as well as a blower test performed by a professional. Besides that, you may want to tell us as much as possible about your house, age, insulation, material, current furnace(s), pictures etc... and we can provide a rough estimate.




My log home (1600 sq) is hydronic. R values are pathetic. (R-8 walls, R-14 roof) As I have no ducting and a wood boiler would cost $10,000, I could use something like this if minimal ducting could be retrofitted. Right now have a convection wood stove in the basement with a collection hood on top ducted directly above to living room. Does pretty well but after successive 25*days, have to turn on oil fired boiler to supplement. Anything to show how to duct this for an existing home?


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## blades

You could pull up a manual for just about any wood fired furnace to see the basic requirements. Pretty much the same for any of them as fae as tieing into existing duct work. You have hydroponic so no duct work existing which means you would have to create some. Real basic is if you are pumping hot air in ya need to have an exit for the cold, preferably to the cold air intake of the furnace.


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## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> My log home (1600 sq) is hydronic. R values are pathetic. (R-8 walls, R-14 roof) As I have no ducting and a wood boiler would cost $10,000, I could use something like this if minimal ducting could be retrofitted. Right now have a convection wood stove in the basement with a collection hood on top ducted directly above to living room. Does pretty well but after successive 25*days, have to turn on oil fired boiler to supplement. Anything to show how to duct this for an existing home?



I would assume Rhode Island does not get as cold as Canada or North US Midwest. The furnace *should* be able to handle it.

You may want to contact Laynes69. He has a similar furnace and an old house (he insulated it well mind you). He might be able to offer more practical real life suggestions.


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## arrow

blades said:


> You could pull up a manual for just about any wood fired furnace to see the basic requirements. Pretty much the same for any of them as fae as tieing into existing duct work. You have hydroponic so no duct work existing which means you would have to create some. Real basic is if you are pumping hot air in ya need to have an exit for the cold, preferably to the cold air intake of the furnace.



Most just show how to plumb existing. I have no idea how extensive a ducting one needs. I am assuming there needs to be some type of air rotation within the house or would it be sufficient to keep cellar door open as I do now for "return" air. I notice two vents coming out of the Tundra. I do not know where these are supposed to go (opposite ends of the house?) as opposed to dumping into one large trunk.


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## Preston

Now for the question from an don't know squat dude. What or how is this installed when no basement is available? I presently have a heat pump. Could this be hooked up through me present duct work? My log house is no insulation other than the logs,, 6 to 8 inches thick, and insulation in the attic upstairs.

Ideas?


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## ajr

Fyrebug said:


> Like any other heating appliances stats you have to take a few things into consideration:
> 
> Square footage: It depends on your insulation, height of ceiling, location of house, latitude, prevailing winds etc...
> 
> BTU: is rated like any other wood furnace in the industry... Input BTU on high fire. All the literature is not completed yet but we also list an "average BTU" that is a rule of thumb typical BTU output over the life of the fire as if it was a gas or oil furnace. That rating is about 65,000 BTU over the life of the fire. Again, if you are on the west coast or Alaska you have to adjust for soft wood.
> 
> As somebody else mentioned a heat loss calculation or blower test will reveal what kind of BTU load your house is under and size the furnace accordingly.
> 
> As I've said many times before... Wood burning is an inexact science.
> 
> However, you may want to ask Laynes69 about his experience since he has a very similar firebox.



Would that be on high medium or low.


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## arrow

ajr said:


> Would that be on high medium or low.



The "life" of the fire could take into account all 3 scenarios especially if thermostatically controlled but "high" would be as the fire is dying and the furnace is letting in more air to keep up the average btu's. The furnace will extract a certain amount of btu's dependent on its air charge. The more air, the more btu's but the faster it will give those up. "life" of fire I believe would be for a standard 8-10 hrs. If you need a hotter fire, (high) you'll create more btu's but at a faster rate and would need more wood sooner.


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## laynes69

I would think a sliding air control would be better, but it would be difficult to add a thermostat to that type of control. It would be better to initially allow more air, so further down the line, the fire remains hotter, than to open it and shut it down for the entire burn. Having the thermostat allows for a more even heat to be produced, while not having to babysit the furnace. It may however lower burn times, but not necessarily. A tight, well built home may go 12 hours, while an old home see 6, supply and demand. The fire will peak at max, then slowly drop. This would be the average btu output over time. You don't want to go off max output, unless you want to feed it like a locomotive.


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## Fyrebug

Preston said:


> Now for the question from an don't know squat dude. What or how is this installed when no basement is available? I presently have a heat pump. Could this be hooked up through me present duct work? My log house is no insulation other than the logs,, 6 to 8 inches thick, and insulation in the attic upstairs.
> 
> Ideas?



Arrow & Preston... The unit is designed to be installed into an existing ductwork. And only as an "Add-on" to an existing furnace.

I say 'only' because code states a solid fuel furnace (wood, pellet, coal) *MUST* have another steady source of heat (one that doesnt need to be replenished manually every day). The reason for this is your insurance company wants to make sure that if you go away for an extensive amount of time and you're not there to refill, you existing gas/oil/electric furnace will ensure your pipes dont burst.

Having said that and if you dont care about insurance you can always design your own ductwork with 8" round outlets.

A better solution would be to look at the *Mini-Caddy*. You can have an optional electric element - thence your furnace is a full stand-alone and insurance approved. You can also put an optional distribution kit (cool feature) that allows you to distribute up to 12 5" flexible duct throughout your house. You can hide this ducting in false or suspended ceiling.

Click Here:

View attachment 287917


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## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Having said that and if you dont care about insurance you can always design your own ductwork with 8" round outlets.
> 
> A better solution would be to look at the *Mini-Caddy*. You can have an optional electric element - thence your furnace is a full stand-alone and insurance approved. You can also put an optional distribution kit (cool feature) that allows you to distribute up to 12 5" flexible duct throughout your house. You can hide this ducting in false or suspended ceiling.
> 
> Click Here:
> 
> View attachment 287917



Mine would be simply to replace the wood stove currently in the cellar. Ducting would be minimal (2 outlets at most) and return air would be provided by the cellar door remaining open. It has to be better than an epa wood stove with a hood over it. ( wood stove operates as a convection heater) The house simply is just too poorly insulated to ask more than that. When its 6* outside, I doubt that I could rely on the Tundra to heat the house without supplementing it with the oil burner as I do now. Cripes, even with 3 successive days of 25* weather, the house will be at 63* when we get up and that's with the large (3.1 cu ft) wood stove going all nite. I'm hoping the Tundra can at least do the same thing as I am only using around 5 cords now.


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## trophyhunter

Fyrebug said:


> If you're near Shipshewanna you wont need a blower right? :msp_wink:



Some of us "English" really do have power in the area.  Gas powered chainsaws to, and don't even get us started on the motorized splitters.

Nice looking unit, I hope it's a solid performer for you guys. It was nice to see you asking people directly for input on what they want and need in a new furnace.


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## Genius.

Fyrebug said:


> Do you have a Family Farm near by? I'll be in Muskegon in a couple of weeks.



Will they have one to show there?

I'm just South of there, we also have a FF in Holland.


I have a pretty large house and my Caddy has all it can do to keep the house comfortable on windy sub-0 days.

Would this furnace be considered a upgrade and larger unit?


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## Fyrebug

Genius. said:


> Will they have one to show there?
> 
> I'm just South of there, we also have a FF in Holland.
> 
> 
> I have a pretty large house and my Caddy has all it can do to keep the house comfortable on windy sub-0 days.
> 
> Would this furnace be considered a upgrade and larger unit?



I'm in Grand Rapids now... 

The units will start shipping to stores in August.

This is the same firebox as the Caddy so no... If the Caddy cant keep up you should be looking at a Max...


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## Fyrebug

trophyhunter said:


> Nice looking unit, I hope it's a solid performer for you guys. It was nice to see you asking people directly for input on what they want and need in a new furnace.


Thanks. I think we avoid a lot of headaches by asking the users first rather than 'assuming'.

Thanks for your input. I'm working hard to maybe have the AS users some special promo this fall. Will keep you up to date later.


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## hapec12

*Cert. of Qualification:*

This unit will be ADDED to the Certificate of Qualification in the U.S. for the Tax Credit, correct?
Thank You for all the early info on this unit. Got me all worked about it.


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## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> This unit will be ADDED to the Certificate of Qualification in the U.S. for the Tax Credit, correct?
> Thank You for all the early info on this unit. Got me all worked about it.



Correct!


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## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Correct!



What is a concern to me since it happened to my stove is that if the appliance is epa rated, is there now sort of a built in "fragility" to the appliance? My stove cracked at welds that hold the manifolds the air tubes are attached to. These cracked in 4 places and were welded to 3/16" plate. If this type of appliance is going to be put in jeopardy with 900-1200* temps, I would want to know. If this had been clearly identified with my last stove, I would not have bought it.


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## ajr

What stove do you have?

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2


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## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> What is a concern to me since it happened to my stove is that if the appliance is epa rated, is there now sort of a built in "fragility" to the appliance? My stove cracked at welds that hold the manifolds the air tubes are attached to. These cracked in 4 places and were welded to 3/16" plate. If this type of appliance is going to be put in jeopardy with 900-1200* temps, I would want to know. If this had been clearly identified with my last stove, I would not have bought it.



That's odd... EPA wood stoves typically have more material than an 'airtight'. Our HT2000 stove for example weight 550Lbs with 3/8" plate steel.

I've seen the other furnaces and here's the difference... Other furnaces are just a welded square steel box with a grate and ashpan. There is one or 2 very cheap blower that move air around the fire chamber and the envelope around it and that's it.

Our unit is a fire chamber with insulated envelope. The firechamber is lined with refractory brick, the top has a ceramic cast baffle, stainless steel reburn tubes then it has a heat exchange chamber so the flue gases spend a lot of time for a proper heat exchange. That's a lot of furnace. Besides, we have a better warranty than anybody else. So you are well covered. 

The picture below shows the basic cutaway (This is the Caddy but the principle is the same)

View attachment 288384


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## arrow

ajr said:


> What stove do you have?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2



Quadrafire 5700 made in 2005. The lifetime warranty on this stove is worthless as the company has claimed I over fired the stove thus voiding the warranty. They never stipulated but if you ask today, they consider anything over 700* as over fired. Some propose they used cheap Chinese steel as this has happened to many 5700's built then. The stove is made with thick steel as it also weighs 550# but I need a unit that will not crack while placed in the basement. My old stove was a Timberland that lasted 27 years being used the same way. It used 1/2 cord more per year than the epa stove and that was with starting in Dec to burn instead of Oct as I do now. I am a fan of epa technology as long as it holds up.


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Correct!



Will the Tundra have an insulated cabinet and have there been any studies done to see if this is a pertinent aspect to efficiency? Thanks


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Will the Tundra have an insulated cabinet and have there been any studies done to see if this is a pertinent aspect to efficiency? Thanks



It certainly increases the heat exchange efficiencies. 

If the cabinet is not insulated more heat radiates from the furnace itself. While this heat is not lost to the outside, it warms up the furnace room. If the goal is to get as much warm air in the heat registers then you want an insulated cabinet. If you want a warm furnace room then go without insulation.


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## ajr

Will the tundras cabinet be insulated?

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2


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## arrow

ajr said:


> Will the tundras cabinet be insulated?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2



I'm thinking it may come with or without depending on the market.


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## hapec12

*Tundra:*

:confused2:


arrow said:


> I'm thinking it may come with or without depending on the market.


 That's a good question.


----------



## arrow

hapec12 said:


> :confused2:
> That's a good question.



And one that the factory rep could answer but for some reason has not responded. Perhaps he is on vacation or dealing with something else but he's already had the opportunity to be definitive pertinent to his product line. His previous answer of 1. "Yes , its more efficient with it but it is not advantageous if you want to heat the boiler room" did not speak to his particular product having insulation or not. From that point I could only guess that it may come both ways with an added cost for the insulated variety or that insulated ones will only be offered to a certain market. Dunno for sure so far.


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## Fyrebug

Sorry guys, up to my neck in stuff. 

No the cabinet is not insulated. Because the firebox is insulated with brick and a thin ceramic blanket inside it was not deemed necessary.

Our Alterna Pellet furnace is different. Because of air flow and uninsulated firebox the panels are insulated.

Am at a trade show this week and will take more pics for you.


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## hapec12

*Pics:*

Waiting for more pictures when you get time. Thank You.


----------



## ajr

What is the cabinet insulated with?

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2


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## hapec12

*Insulation:;*

Read post number 88.


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## ajr

Unless im missing something hes talking about the firebox, and a ceramic blanket i think.

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2


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## Fyrebug

Sorry for the delay but been away for a little while. Notice all the electrical are on plugs. No wiring!

View attachment 290826


View attachment 290827


View attachment 290828


View attachment 290830


View attachment 290831


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## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Sorry for the delay but been away for a little while. Notice all the electrical are on plugs. No wiring!
> 
> View attachment 290826
> 
> 
> View attachment 290827
> 
> 
> View attachment 290828
> 
> 
> View attachment 290830
> 
> 
> View attachment 290831



Thanks very much for these pictures. I would like to query an area of this furnace. On my stove, the seam welds making up the air tube manifolds have cracked….or more correctly, the metal surrounding the weld has cracked. This is an area unprotected by fire brick. You can understand my concern as I see the same secondary air structure in the Tundra as what is in the Quad. Quadrafire claims a temp of 700* is considered over firing. This stove has to be operated between 800-900* (as measured with a temp gage affixed to the top of stove) to make enough heat from the cellar. I could be mistaken but from the picture of the inside of the furnace, it appears the manifolds are seam welded to the sides of the firebox. If indeed this is the case, I am wondering if it would be better if the air induction manifolds were not seam welded to the side of the stove but sort of "floating" with just end welds. This would give the plate steel on the side of the firebox more leeway in it expansion/contraction sequences which may help with durability. What temp is considered over firing with the Tundra? Thanks.


----------



## blades

Stove = convection+ radiation heat, wood furnace = forced air, two completely different operational principals, no need to run a furnace at 900+ degrees external temp. and that would be a major over fire. 
Routinely hitting 900 deg. on a stove as possibly measured by a stick on temp gauge( notoriously in accurate) I would agree with the mfg. that it is being over fired. Heck i get the hebejebes when my NC 30 punches the 700+ mark as measured in various places on the stove with an infrared unit ( note that is with the blower on and there is a differential of at least a couple hundred degrees between it being on or off). That is just me I suppose due to having a run away a number of years ago on a different unit.


----------



## arrow

blades said:


> Stove = convection+ radiation heat, wood furnace = forced air, two completely different operational principals, no need to run a furnace at 900+ degrees external temp. and that would be a major over fire.
> Routinely hitting 900 deg. on a stove as possibly measured by a stick on temp gauge( notoriously in accurate) I would agree with the mfg. that it is being over fired. Heck i get the hebejebes when my NC 30 punches the 700+ mark as measured in various places on the stove with an infrared unit ( note that is with the blower on and there is a differential of at least a couple hundred degrees between it being on or off). That is just me I suppose due to having a run away a number of years ago on a different unit.



I'm not looking for a lecture at this point about what happened to my stove. You do offer an enlightenment however about the blower being on lowering temps. I specifically asked the salesman if it would be ok to put this Quadrafire in the cellar and he confirmed it was. I ran this stove as I did my last one which lasted 27 years and was never given an education from either the manufacturer or sales on what exactly constitutes "overfiring" until after the fact. All the stove manual said is that no part of the stove should glow red and routinely the air bars glowed red as it could not be helped. What I am asking is what is considered the over firing point for the Tundra as I do not want to be caught unawares once more. With the exception of the increased firebrick in the Tundra, the two interior constructions look almost identical with the welded air manifolds on the Tundra still exposed as on the Quad. I am simply trying to get my ducks in order so this does not happen again.


----------



## Preston

And a very wise thing to do.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Thanks very much for these pictures. I would like to query an area of this furnace. On my stove, the seam welds making up the air tube manifolds have cracked….or more correctly, the metal surrounding the weld has cracked. This is an area unprotected by fire brick. You can understand my concern as I see the same secondary air structure in the Tundra as what is in the Quad. Quadrafire claims a temp of 700* is considered over firing. This stove has to be operated between 800-900* (as measured with a temp gage affixed to the top of stove) to make enough heat from the cellar. I could be mistaken but from the picture of the inside of the furnace, it appears the manifolds are seam welded to the sides of the firebox. If indeed this is the case, I am wondering if it would be better if the air induction manifolds were not seam welded to the side of the stove but sort of "floating" with just end welds. This would give the plate steel on the side of the firebox more leeway in it expansion/contraction sequences which may help with durability. What temp is considered over firing with the Tundra? Thanks.



We do not state safe operating temps in the baffle area since most consumers would be hard pressed on how to measure these. We do state the firebox should not be filled past the bricks.

Proper operation for any EPA wood stove and in this instance furnace requires to build a small hot fire, then build up the fire gradually until draft is established. Once done, fill the firebox as stated and let it burn down to coals before refilling.

The problem users encounters with wood furnace is if the furnace is undersized. The user will then feel they have to reload as often as possible until the coal bed is quite high. The furnace was *not* designed for that type of operation. 

Keep in mind this firebox has been on the market for over 8 years in another brand and the problem you mention is not one we've experienced.

If you are concerned about its operation, you may want to ask Laynes69 who has a similar model for a few years.


----------



## stihly dan

arrow said:


> I'm not looking for a lecture at this point about what happened to my stove. You do offer an enlightenment however about the blower being on lowering temps. I specifically asked the salesman if it would be ok to put this Quadrafire in the cellar and he confirmed it was. I ran this stove as I did my last one which lasted 27 years and was never given an education from either the manufacturer or sales on what exactly constitutes "overfiring" until after the fact. All the stove manual said is that no part of the stove should glow red and routinely the air bars glowed red as it could not be helped. What I am asking is what is considered the over firing point for the Tundra as I do not want to be caught unawares once more. With the exception of the increased firebrick in the Tundra, the two interior constructions look almost identical with the welded air manifolds on the Tundra still exposed as on the Quad. I am simply trying to get my ducks in order so this does not happen again.



Basement installs sometimes have this problem on epa units. A bdr would solve that.


----------



## laynes69

I fill our firebox when it's cold out for an overnight burn. The firebox temperatures cannot be measured, and it's impossible to tell the firebox temps based on flue temps. With the heat exchanger, it's extremely effective on extracting heat that otherwise would be lost. With the firebox being protected with an insulation blanket and firebrick, it's highly doubtful you are going to damage it. Having a baro almost eliminates the chance for overheating by reducing draft.


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## hapec12

*Lingo:*



stihly dan said:


> Basement installs sometimes have this problem on epa units. A bdr would solve that.



What is a BDR? Thanks:msp_confused:


----------



## hapec12

*More Lingo:*



laynes69 said:


> I fill our firebox when it's cold out for an overnight burn. The firebox temperatures cannot be measured, and it's impossible to tell the firebox temps based on flue temps. With the heat exchanger, it's extremely effective on extracting heat that otherwise would be lost. With the firebox being protected with an insulation blanket and firebrick, it's highly doubtful you are going to damage it. Having a baro almost eliminates the chance for overheating by reducing draft.



You fellas are really confusing me.
Now, what is a BARO? Thanks.:msp_confused:


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## brenndatomu

Barometric Draft Regulator. It mounts on your flue pipe, has a weighted door that regulates the draft that the wood stove/furnace see's to your preset spec.

They work _great_ although a little controversial, I think most people that knock 'em, don't _really_ understand 'em. Some people say that they cool the chimney too much, cause creosote. That hasn't been my experience at all. Anyways, not trying to veer fryebugs thread off in the ditch with BDR pizzin match. My Yukon (and a lot of other wood furnaces) are required to have a BDR. It is almost impossible to overfire a wood burner with a BDR on the stack _and_, because they actually regulate the _velocity_ of the smoke/gasses/heat, it gives time for heat exchange to take place in your stove or furnace's secondary heat exchanger, instead of just zipping right up the chimney, and everybody likes increased efficiency, right?

Edit, BARO, different term for the same thing.


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## arrow

brenndatomu said:


> Barometric Draft Regulator. It mounts on your flue pipe, has a weighted door that regulates the draft that the wood stove/furnace see's to your preset spec.
> 
> They work _great_ although a little controversial, I think most people that knock 'em, don't _really_ understand 'em. Some people say that they cool the chimney too much, cause creosote. That hasn't been my experience at all. Anyways, not trying to veer fryebugs thread off in the ditch with BDR pizzin match. My Yukon (and a lot of other wood furnaces) are required to have a BDR. It is almost impossible to overfire a wood burner with a BDR on the stack _and_, because they actually regulate the _velocity_ of the smoke/gasses/heat, it gives time for heat exchange to take place in your stove or furnace's secondary heat exchanger, instead of just zipping right up the chimney, and everybody likes increased efficiency, right?
> 
> Edit, BARO, different term for the same thing.



I am wondering what effects would an outside air intake have on a bdr? Also, on a wood furnace such as the Tundra, would an oai be beneficial to heat efficiencies?


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## hapec12

*Lingo:*



brenndatomu said:


> Barometric Draft Regulator. It mounts on your flue pipe, has a weighted door that regulates the draft that the wood stove/furnace see's to your preset spec.
> 
> They work _great_ although a little controversial, I think most people that knock 'em, don't _really_ understand 'em. Some people say that they cool the chimney too much, cause creosote. That hasn't been my experience at all. Anyways, not trying to veer fryebugs thread off in the ditch with BDR pizzin match. My Yukon (and a lot of other wood furnaces) are required to have a BDR. It is almost impossible to overfire a wood burner with a BDR on the stack _and_, because they actually regulate the _velocity_ of the smoke/gasses/heat, it gives time for heat exchange to take place in your stove or furnace's secondary heat exchanger, instead of just zipping right up the chimney, and everybody likes increased efficiency, right?
> 
> Edit, BARO, different term for the same thing.



Thank You. I'm trying to wrap my head around all this info, and sometimes it gets confusing.
So, now I'm wondering if this new furnace needs a bdr?


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## hapec12

*Fyrebug:*

Fyrebug-- Would I need a BDR on this stove? I'm thinking of building a small outside structure to house this furnace, then push the heat into my garage. My insurance company said No Heater in garage.
What do you think?
Thanks
And thank you for the photos.


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## brenndatomu

arrow said:


> I am wondering what effects would an outside air intake have on a bdr? Also, on a wood furnace such as the Tundra, would an oai be beneficial to heat efficiencies?




Outside Air Kit, or OAK, is a good idea, probably a necessity with a BDR. The BDR can send a large volume of air up the chimney, so unless you have a _REALLY_ leaky house, a OAK keeps the chimney from pulling a small negative pressure (or vacuum) on the house (which can mean starving the fire for air, smoke leaking back in the house, etc)




hapec12 said:


> Thank You. I'm trying to wrap my head around all this info, and sometimes it gets confusing.
> So, now I'm wondering if this new furnace needs a bdr?




We'll see what fryebug says, but I'm betting they will want a BDR on it. The Tundra has an insulated firebox to promote high temps and clean burning. That means your heat transfer has to happen in a secondary heat exchanger, so as explained in my previous post, the BDR would slow the velocity of the flue gasses enough for that heat transfer to have the time to take place.


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## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> I am wondering what effects would an outside air intake have on a bdr? Also, on a wood furnace such as the Tundra, would an oai be beneficial to heat efficiencies?



An OAK (outside air kit) is recommended for air tight houses or house where chronic negative pressures is present. Older houses typically do not need an OAK.

BDR's are recommended on tall chimneys or where the chance of fluctuating draft pressures is present... ie house on top of hill or where wind affected draft. A BDR function is to ensure the furnace/chimney system do not go in overdraft.


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## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> An OAK (outside air kit) is recommended for air tight houses or house where chronic negative pressures is present. Older houses typically do not need an OAK.
> 
> BDR's are recommended on tall chimneys or where the chance of fluctuating draft pressures is present... ie house on top of hill or where wind affected draft. A BDR function is to ensure the furnace/chimney system do not go in overdraft.



I think the proper thing to do here is to get a measure on the draft. My chimney is 25' tall with a 7x11 flue tile. This chimney was right on the border line volume wise for this current stove I have calling for no more than 3 times the stove outlet volume which was 28" for the 6" outlet. This made me think that my draft was on the slower side as I was thinking a smaller flue would increase exhaust velocity much like smaller headers on small block engines. Could be a different ball game altogether with stove exhaust of which I'm a bit ignorant on.


----------



## blades

Arrow, A lot of basement installs run into 2 problems. the first being from a cold start a reverse flow( i get this even with a insulated 6" liner) in the flue mostly when it is a cinder block and clay tie unit and almost always oversized, the second which is what we are speaking of here is the overall length of the flue. Once that nice big flue gets hot it really starts to suck( draft ) leading to short burn cycles and less than adequate heat output , just like a fireplace unit, as it is getting sucked up the flue. By adding the damper we can regulate the amount of draft (in inches of vacuum ) when the unit is at operating temperature ( likely 4-6 ") There are special tools for measuring the draft so that one can properly set the damper. The damper is a t shaped unit about a foot long, it should be placed apx 18" away from the appliance in a vertical setting This can be a real challenge in a lot of basement installs. I have a hotblast in the basement ( el cheapo model) I am not happy with it ( wood hog ect.)and I do have a baro damper on it. The flue is apx 25-30 ft to the top. It has served its purpose in as much as it reduced the NG bills. I haven't used it in the last 2 heating seasons due to having the NC30(big stove) on the main floor( ranch style). avg temp in house mid 70's gas bill about $25/mo ( hot water and dryer)


----------



## brenndatomu

arrow said:


> I think the proper thing to do here is to get a measure on the draft. My chimney is 25' tall with a 7x11 flue tile. This chimney was right on the border line volume wise for this current stove I have calling for no more than 3 times the stove outlet volume which was 28" for the 6" outlet. This made me think that my draft was on the slower side as I was thinking a smaller flue would increase exhaust velocity much like smaller headers on small block engines. Could be a different ball game altogether with stove exhaust of which I'm a bit ignorant on.



Just an FYI, I have a manometer permantly installed on my flue pipe, the draft downstream of the BDR (chimney side) fluctuates wildly day to day (second by second when it is windy) upstream (furnace side) of the BDR, the draft stays pretty constant. About -.03" WC in my case. With the BDR pulled closed, I've seen steady draft readings as high as -.15" WC, which is 5 times what Yukon calls for! 27' insulated 8" SS liner in a masonry chimney, (external chimney) just for reference.

And your thinking sounds perfectly correct as far as the velocity in your chimney. So if you have any draft issues (other than too much draft) a liner would help.


----------



## Fyrebug

brenndatomu said:


> So if you have any draft issues (other than too much draft) a liner would help.




As a matter of fact a liner is mandatory if you do not have a 6" dia. HT2100 rated chimney. If you are venting into a masonry chimney, you will need a liner.

The reason for this is the furnace is so efficient, you will have a hard time drafting if you vent into anything bigger than 6".


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> As a matter of fact a liner is mandatory if you do not have a 6" dia. HT2100 rated chimney. If you are venting into a masonry chimney, you will need a liner.
> 
> The reason for this is the furnace is so efficient, you will have a hard time drafting if you vent into anything bigger than 6".



Yahoo!…..another $2000 to spend for a liner install. I don't suppose you'd sell me the Tundra for $29.95?


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Yahoo!…..another $2000 to spend for a liner install. I don't suppose you'd sell me the Tundra for $29.95?



A $2,000 liner??!? You have a 125 ft tall chimney???:msp_scared:

A 25 ft liner kit will set you back $400. 316Ti Chimney Champion Easy Flex Chimney Liner Kit - 6" | WoodlandDirect.com: Chimney Liners, Chimney Pipe


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> A $2,000 liner??!? You have a 125 ft tall chimney???:msp_scared:
> 
> A 25 ft liner kit will set you back $400. 316Ti Chimney Champion Easy Flex Chimney Liner Kit - 6" | WoodlandDirect.com: Chimney Liners, Chimney Pipe



Well thanks for that link Frye. $2000 was the price for liner and installation. I got 3 estimates and they were all around the same. One of the guys was not going to pour insulation in for 3 reasons. First he said that it hardens like a rock and when you attempt to get it out for replacement (15-20 years) its next to impossible. Secondly he said that insulation will not make a bit of difference as the I would have only 3/8" gap on two sides on the 7" flue. Not worth it he said. Thirdly he said the pipe he uses (316Ti) does not need insulation. He said for insulation to be effective I would have to knock out the tile flue, and insert a liner with a blanket around it as he said there would be no room to have a blanketed liner with my current tile size and thus reverting to the pour type which he said was useless. That job was $3500. But he was still charging me $1995 w/o the insulation for the flexible liner install. Its like every step here needs a whole nother education and then trust you are being given the right information. I should just put my head in my current stove and call it a day.


----------



## laynes69

A liner install is simple and straight forward, unless your uncomfortable with heights or the install. I went one year without a liner, and the next season it was in. There's a big difference with and without a liner. Without a liner draft was sluggish with our 32' chimney, once hot the draft speeds were too high. Once the furnace hit the coaling stage, there wasn't enough draft to keep things burning well resulting in unburnt coals. The liner cured all this as well as a condensation issue within the chimney. Whether it's a EPA stove or furnace, you won't be happy with the performance without a liner.


----------



## Fyrebug

As Layne said you dont have much choice. Here in Canada you dont need to have an insulated liner. But in the US it's code. There's different ways of doing it. Poured insulation (there are different types). Ceramic blankets, pre-insulated flexible liners and insulated solid liners.

finally as another option most sweeps have special tools to break down your clay tile if the fit is too tight.

I'm not sure I would trust that guy... make sure if you hire someone they are NFI certified. 

What is the size of your flue?

As Layne said it's not that difficult to do it yourself. I've done mine as well. Just be safe and handy and have someone else help you and keep an eye on each other when you are on the roof. 

If you call Woodland Direct they can help you. All those guys are NFI certified and worked the trade.


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> As Layne said you dont have much choice. Here in Canada you dont need to have an insulated liner. But in the US it's code. There's different ways of doing it. Poured insulation (there are different types). Ceramic blankets, pre-insulated flexible liners and insulated solid liners.
> 
> finally as another option most sweeps have special tools to break down your clay tile if the fit is too tight.
> 
> I'm not sure I would trust that guy... make sure if you hire someone they are NFI certified.
> 
> What is the size of your flue?
> 
> As Layne said it's not that difficult to do it yourself. I've done mine as well. Just be safe and handy and have someone else help you and keep an eye on each other when you are on the roof.
> 
> If you call Woodland Direct they can help you. All those guys are NFI certified and worked the trade.



Its 7x11. Only way to possibly get an insulation blanket on this size flue would be to attempt to drop down to a 5 1/2" liner. I understand there is a pour formed product called "Golden Flue" This is a cast type liner that must go for some real high bucks.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Its 7x11. Only way to possibly get an insulation blanket on this size flue would be to attempt to drop down to a 5 1/2" liner. I understand there is a pour formed product called "Golden Flue" This is a cast type liner that must go for some real high bucks.



Keep in mind your Flue is the most important part of the installation... As wood burning appliances become more and more efficient the need for large flues will not be needed. That's why reducing to 6" will last you a long time.

This is what you should consider...

1) Do not cheap out. Consider it a permanent installation and you are literally playing with fire. Building a really good chimney system should last you 50 - 100 years. It satisfies insurance and more importantly your piece of mind and the lives of those who live in your house. 

2) Cheap liners are everywhere. A good quality liner (Hybrid liner by Olympia Chimney for example) is a no-memory, smooth wall liner. The advantage is you can sweep with wire brush where a standard 'light' duty liner you have to be careful not to tear during installation and you have to sweep with nylon brushes. The smooth walls also ensures it is more difficult for creosote to deposit. Finally with a smooth wall liner their ID is greater and you can go down to 5.5".

Hope this helps.


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Keep in mind your Flue is the most important part of the installation... As wood burning appliances become more and more efficient the need for large flues will not be needed. That's why reducing to 6" will last you a long time.
> 
> This is what you should consider...
> 
> 1) Do not cheap out. Consider it a permanent installation and you are literally playing with fire. Building a really good chimney system should last you 50 - 100 years. It satisfies insurance and more importantly your piece of mind and the lives of those who live in your house.
> 
> 2) Cheap liners are everywhere. A good quality liner (Hybrid liner by Olympia Chimney for example) is a no-memory, smooth wall liner. The advantage is you can sweep with wire brush where a standard 'light' duty liner you have to be careful not to tear during installation and you have to sweep with nylon brushes. The smooth walls also ensures it is more difficult for creosote to deposit. Finally with a smooth wall liner their ID is greater and you can go down to 5.5".
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thanks Frye.
That was part of the problem. I felt I was getting junk for my money with these flexible liners. I wanted at least a rigid liner then perhaps I would be able to insulate it with some type of insulation. Being able to go down to 5.5" will help. Now I just gotta get some ideas on ducting as this would be a central add on retro fit with oil fired back up from the boiler next to a Tundra.


----------



## blades

maybe a wood fired boiler instead of hot air would be a better match as it sounds like your system now is hydronic.


----------



## arrow

blades said:


> maybe a wood fired boiler instead of hot air would be a better match as it sounds like your system now is hydronic.



I did think of that and looked into it from 3 different manufacturers. Cost came in between 10-12K. The boilers are expensive and the hook up is additional. Then there is the aspect of water storage with some of these 500 gallon tanks costing an additional 5K. To me these are all complications and I'm not too keen on the heat exchange thing either. I may need one more run of ducting as I have a register cut into the floor above the stove that is ducted from a hood on the stove. That ducting made all the difference in the world for the wood stove.


----------



## blades

The code police would be destroying me with that type of installation.


----------



## hapec12

*Tundra:*

T.T.T. for more comments.:yoyo:


----------



## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> T.T.T. for more comments.:yoyo:


what does TTT mean?


----------



## hapec12

*Ttt*



Fyrebug said:


> what does TTT mean?



To The Top-- A way of moving this thread to the head of the list.:msp_wink:


----------



## brenndatomu

Ahhh, a bump...


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> what does TTT mean?


I'd like to bring up a point of conjecture. Getting an EPA eligible tag on a wood burning appliance cost the manufacturer a lot of money. Some refuse or cannot pay and continue to build their products the same way they always have. Some make a statement that their products produce heat enough to warm big,old, drafty farm houses and thus feel an epa type construction would not do that stating btu output would be too gradual. The part I understand is the bigger the firebox, the larger the heat output. I'm thinking low particulates equal efficient burning but according to some, efficient burning does not equate for highest heat output. Size for size, wouldn't an epa appliance say on a 6* day use the same amount of fuel as a non epa appliance to keep that house warm?


----------



## Rattler05.5

arrow said:


> Size for size, wouldn't an epa appliance say on a 6* day use the same amount of fuel as a non epa appliance to keep that house warm?



It would require the same amount of BTUs to heat the house no matter what the source. 
The fuel (wood) can supply x number of btu's but getting the btu's transferred into the house is the part that is difficult. You lose heat up the chimney, in the lines, and to the air. The more efficient the stove the more of the energy from the fuel is used to heat the house, with less waste.


----------



## Fyrebug

Good posts above...

A Lb of wood has approximately 8,000 BTU whether you burn it outdoor or in a sophisticated high-efficiency appliance. 

There are 2 things that comes into play to ensure you get your BTU "bang for the buck". ie efficiencies. In a lab there are different types of efficiencies and they have strict definitions and protocols.

But from a consumer point of view whey they talk about efficiencies they mean 1) combustion efficiencies and 2) heat exchange efficiency. 

A consumer thinks combustion efficiency means burning all the fuel ( solid, gases, smoke, inert minerals). Modern high-efficiency wood burning appliances particularly those tested to EPA or CSA B415 have combustion efficiencies of 95% or more. Cant burn ashes...

But tha't only part of the story... What do you do with this heat? If you go to any TSC, Farm Stores etc... you will find the vast majority of wood furnace do not have a heat exchanger. Just a big steel box to put wood in and very little else. So they are not efficient in their combustion or heat exchange. That's why their fire box are so large and must be vented on 8" chimney or more. A good proportion of the heat is vented outside!

A high-efficiency furnace on the other hand should have a heat exchanger where exhaust gases spend a lot of time so the blower (air flow) can strip some of that heat and put it into your ductwork. But not so much there is no heat left for draft. It's not as easy as it looks...


----------



## WV Mountaineer

*Heatmax*

Will we be able to purchase the Heatmax in North America? You simply said "different markets" and didn't clarify. I like the looks of it much better and it closes the gap between the looks of a wood stove vs the effectiveness of a furnace.

You also mentioned a possible discount for those on these forums. I would be interested in any list you might be compiling for such a discount.


----------



## MotorSeven

Fyrebug can this be adapted to a 8" class A flue? I am thinking of moving the Hearthstone upstairs and putting a wood furnace in the basement but I will not be changing out the Flue.


----------



## Fyrebug

WV Mountaineer said:


> Will we be able to purchase the Heatmax in North America? You simply said "different markets" and didn't clarify. I like the looks of it much better and it closes the gap between the looks of a wood stove vs the effectiveness of a furnace.
> 
> You also mentioned a possible discount for those on these forums. I would be interested in any list you might be compiling for such a discount.


Both the Tundra and Heatmax will be available in August/ Sept at various stores/Channels: Menards, Lowes.com, Northern Tools, Family Farm etc...

I'm hoping to announce a promo just for AS user in August. Stay tuned.


----------



## Fyrebug

MotorSeven said:


> Fyrebug can this be adapted to a 8" class A flue? I am thinking of moving the Hearthstone upstairs and putting a wood furnace in the basement but I will not be changing out the Flue.


No you cant... the furnace is too efficient and with a 8" flue you will not draft properly.

Drop a 6" liner in your flue to connect to your furnace and it should work just fine.


----------



## WV Mountaineer

Fyrebug said:


> No you cant... the furnace is too efficient and with a 8" flue you will not draft properly.
> 
> Drop a 6" liner in your flue to connect to your furnace and it should work just fine.



I have a 8" flue that drafts so hard I was worried about having too much draft. I live on a hill and it's a very tall flue. Is this always the case with a high efficient furnace? I was going to install a baro on my wood stove but was afraid it would just stay open all the time. I had to install a cast iron damper to slow down the draft and it was still too much.


----------



## hapec12

*Tundra:*

Bump--- or T.T.T..


----------



## Fyrebug

WV Mountaineer said:


> I have a 8" flue that drafts so hard I was worried about having too much draft. I live on a hill and it's a very tall flue. Is this always the case with a high efficient furnace? I was going to install a baro on my wood stove but was afraid it would just stay open all the time. I had to install a cast iron damper to slow down the draft and it was still too much.



Best to use liner with Baro...


----------



## MotorSeven

How do you drop a liner down a 8" Class A flue(never heard of this) and how much would 25' of that cost?


----------



## arrow

MotorSeven said:


> How do you drop a liner down a 8" Class A flue(never heard of this) and how much would 25' of that cost?



Motor is this a metal double wall chimney like a "Duraliner"?


----------



## MotorSeven

arrow said:


> Motor is this a metal double wall chimney like a "Duraliner"?



Yes, 9' of double wall black, the 14' of SS double wall....all Duraliner. Is't a straight shot, no turns & draft is so good at times it will pull the cast iron door shut when I leave it cracked.


----------



## arrow

MotorSeven said:


> Yes, 9' of double wall black, the 14' of SS double wall....all Duraliner. Is't a straight shot, no turns & draft is so good at times it will pull the cast iron door shut when I leave it cracked.



I wouldn't mess with it then with a different size flue; you've got too much money invested in a chimney system already. What I do think you need to do is match the math for efficient use of the Tundra in terms of its exhaust with a blend of flap and baro dampers. If that can't be done, then find a furnace with an 8" flue. Any ducted furnace is going to give you better results than the present stove (Hearthstone?). This is what i did to mine (sorry picture would not stay rotated) and it made a huge difference. I am hoping to gain even more with the Tundra with some additional ducting.


----------



## MotorSeven

Yep, even scrounging most of it used the flue pipe cost $1500 so it's there to stay. Just entertaining furnace options since the Hearthstone is a beast but forced air would be much better to get all that heat up stairs.


----------



## WV Mountaineer

Can you run the tundra without power, like a stove?


----------



## Fyrebug

WV Mountaineer said:


> Can you run the tundra without power, like a stove?


On power outage the primary air damper shuts down thereby slowing down your combustion considerably.

You could force it open I presume but with the forced air pushing the heat it'll just sit in your ductwork.

You could do like the Amish. Remove the blower and build a large inverted funnel like plenum with a large floor grating to get the heat upstairs.

Last solution is a generator backup.


----------



## WV Mountaineer

Fyrebug said:


> On power outage the primary air damper shuts down thereby slowing down your combustion considerably.
> 
> You could force it open I presume but with the forced air pushing the heat it'll just sit in your ductwork.
> 
> You could do like the Amish. Remove the blower and build a large inverted funnel like plenum with a large floor grating to get the heat upstairs.
> 
> Last solution is a generator backup.



Convection will carry the heat up through the duct in an emergency to at least keep everyone from freezing. I was more concerned about damaging the firebox by holding the damper open and then voiding any warranty.

I actually did something like that last season only without the funnel like plenum. I ran the return to right above the wood stove and just opened it up. Not the best solution but could heat my entire house with an old hunter wood stove. I had no idea it was an Amish concept.


----------



## Fyrebug

WV Mountaineer said:


> Convection will carry the heat up through the duct in an emergency to at least keep everyone from freezing. I was more concerned about damaging the firebox by holding the damper open and then voiding any warranty.



The fire will not damage the firebox. It's the heat build up in the ductwork that might be a concern, especially if you are running only 2 round duct. The heat will accumulate at your first bend and if you dont respect your clearance to combustibles you may be in trouble.

The reason the primary damper shuts down on power off is to avoid this scenario. We dont recommend you do this... but If you plan to force open the primary air on shutdown you should look at increasing your clearances. Even put a radiation shield (sheet metal) 1" away from combustible to help out.


----------



## hapec12

*Tundra*

Waiting for Tundra-HeatMax intro.


----------



## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> Waiting for Tundra-HeatMax intro.



If you are in Michigan, Family Farm will have the Heatmax. Menards the Tundra. Some Pro Hardware will likely have the Tundra.


----------



## hapec12

*Tundra---Heatmax*

So, the ONLY Difference in the two, are the side panels??:confused2:


----------



## npd2408

Bump!!!!


----------



## hapec12

*Difference;*



hapec12 said:


> So, the ONLY Difference in the two, are the side panels??:confused2:


 Bare with me, Please.


----------



## Fyrebug

hapec12 said:


> So, the ONLY Difference in the two, are the side panels??:confused2:



Yes... It's a marketing decision. Not every store wants to compete against everybody else on the same item. Car MFG do it with their brands and its a normal marketing strategy for the average consumer.

If you own a small chain of hardware store and have to compete against the big boys, it's nice to know that on the weekly flyer you are not selling the identical model and losing the deal by $9.95. 

But you guys on AS are NOT average consumers! :msp_wink:


----------



## Racerboy832

Are we going to see any of these stoves in the Northeast?


----------



## Fyrebug

Racerboy832 said:


> Are we going to see any of these stoves in the Northeast?



Paris Farmers Union will be offering it plus we have distributors. If you PM me whereabout in CT you live I can narrow it down.


----------



## Racerboy832

New Fairfield CT 06812. Any Idea of what the end price will be on these?


----------



## Fyrebug

Racerboy832 said:


> New Fairfield CT 06812. Any Idea of what the end price will be on these?



Below $2,000


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Below $2,000



I currently have a hooded wood stove that conveys heat up through the hood and into a ducted floor grate. If I were to put any sort of fan within the ducting, it would create bad drafting for the wood stove (epa type with air tubes) and over run the convecting heat coming off the stove. I notice this furnace is using a fan to push its heat up through the ducting. I would assume this uses more wood when the fan is running. How effective would the furnace be with just natural air convection and why does this fan not over run heat being produced by the furnace?


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> I currently have a hooded wood stove that conveys heat up through the hood and into a ducted floor grate. If I were to put any sort of fan within the ducting, it would create bad drafting for the wood stove (epa type with air tubes) and over run the convecting heat coming off the stove. I notice this furnace is using a fan to push its heat up through the ducting. I would assume this uses more wood when the fan is running. How effective would the furnace be with just natural air convection and why does this fan not over run heat being produced by the furnace?



Keep in mind this furnace has been in the market for 8 years under the PSG label. So it's fully tested and been proven over that period of time. 

Think of it as any other furnace oil/gas/electric... you have heat produced by an element or fuel and the heat needs to be extracted in a 'usable' form ie. in your ductwork. Therefore, the furnace designers build in components such as a combustion chamber, an extraction chamber (Heat exchanger) and a means to push & transport heat (air via the blower).

If you design your furnace properly, you can calibrate the efficiencies and other parameters. Test results are published to show it indeed works and 8 years of satisfied customers is nothing to sniff at either. If you want to see the specs of this furnace they are published here... Furnaces | Wood | Medium | Products by size | Drolet

Amish folks use our furnace with natural heat convections and it also works fine for them.


----------



## Fyrebug

*Ready to Ship!*

Hi guys, check it out! First off the line...

BTW, notice how clean the shop is. 

View attachment 299852


----------



## goatguy

Will the user's manual be available soon so that we can see installation instructions, use instructions, clearance distances and all that other technical stuff we like to read about?


----------



## Fyrebug

goatguy said:


> Will the user's manual be available soon so that we can see installation instructions, use instructions, clearance distances and all that other technical stuff we like to read about?



Putting the finishing touches as we speak.


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Putting the finishing touches as we speak.



Frye, thanks for all the info. I like the ash catcher size as I like to not deal with ashes for at least a couple of weeks. As far as cosmetics, I think the font size for "Drolet" is on the garish size it is so large. I think letters about 3/4" tall would have made for a classier and more business like presentation. Its not like these things are out in the street and you're trying to advertise your product with some "eye catching" lettering because visual target distances are so large. It will not stop me from purchasing the unit however.


----------



## ajr

Fyrebug said:


> Hi guys, check it out! First off the line...
> 
> BTW, notice how clean the shop is.
> 
> View attachment 299852



If you look real close on the first unit of the line you can see my name on it.:wink2:


----------



## arrow

I have decided to build a new chimney as the old one is pulling away from the house. Previously, I was simply going to line the 7x11 flue tile with a stainless rigid pipe. Now that I'm starting fresh, I think it best for the liner to be cast clay tile, 6" round (inside diameter). If this type of liner presents a problem to the Drolet furnace Frye can you please inform me? Thanks


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Frye, thanks for all the info. I like the ash catcher size as I like to not deal with ashes for at least a couple of weeks. As far as cosmetics, I think the font size for "Drolet" is on the garish size it is so large. I think letters about 3/4" tall would have made for a classier and more business like presentation. Its not like these things are out in the street and you're trying to advertise your product with some "eye catching" lettering because visual target distances are so large. It will not stop me from purchasing the unit however.



Thanks for the input. We tried diffferent looks and this was our most 'muted' we came up with.


----------



## Fyrebug

ajr said:


> If you look real close on the first unit of the line you can see my name on it.:wink2:



Hey I just noticed that too!


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> I have decided to build a new chimney as the old one is pulling away from the house. Previously, I was simply going to line the 7x11 flue tile with a stainless rigid pipe. Now that I'm starting fresh, I think it best for the liner to be cast clay tile, 6" round (inside diameter). If this type of liner presents a problem to the Drolet furnace Frye can you please inform me? Thanks



It depends on what kind of shape your masonry chimney is. If mortar and bricks are falling apart then a complete tear down and using a solid pack Class A chimney would probably be better and cheaper than rebuilding a masonry chimney. If you're after the old style look of a chimney on the side of the house, you can always 'chase' your Class A chimney - that is box frame it - then either use siding to finish the look or those manufactured light weight stones for a more rustic look. It all depends on your budget.

My only problem with a clay tile 6" chimney is they take a long time to warm up to get the draft going. If you go with a rigid or flexible insulated liner your flue temps stand a much better chance of staying at same temp for most of the lenght of the chimney.


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> It depends on what kind of shape your masonry chimney is. If mortar and bricks are falling apart then a complete tear down and using a solid pack Class A chimney would probably be better and cheaper than rebuilding a masonry chimney. If you're after the old style look of a chimney on the side of the house, you can always 'chase' your Class A chimney - that is box frame it - then either use siding to finish the look or those manufactured light weight stones for a more rustic look. It all depends on your budget.
> 
> My only problem with a clay tile 6" chimney is they take a long time to warm up to get the draft going. If you go with a rigid or flexible insulated liner your flue temps stand a much better chance of staying at same temp for most of the lenght of the chimney.



My main concern was longevity. My mason guy states he replaces metal liners all the time with the person getting 7-10 years out of them around here because most people burn oak which he states is pretty acidy. He states clay will last 50 years or more. I asked him about the thicker rigid liners and he said he never dealt with them. I haven't either and do not now how long they've been around or how long the rigid liners last. In my present chimney with clay liner, I have to get the draft going with a heat gun if I have not built a fire in a few days. I'm thinking once the clay liner is heated, it is not as quick to lose heat either. He will use vermiculite as the insulator as he prefers it because it stays loose.


----------



## npd2408

Could you tell me if anyone in North East PA is going to have them? Thanks been waiting going to build a chimney within the next two mos. Got the wood ready. Was not hard to convince the wife on the purchase told her the specs. Tax credit and efficency.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> My main concern was longevity. My mason guy states he replaces metal liners all the time with the person getting 7-10 years out of them around here because most people burn oak which he states is pretty acidy. He states clay will last 50 years or more. I asked him about the thicker rigid liners and he said he never dealt with them. I haven't either and do not now how long they've been around or how long the rigid liners last. In my present chimney with clay liner, I have to get the draft going with a heat gun if I have not built a fire in a few days. I'm thinking once the clay liner is heated, it is not as quick to lose heat either. He will use vermiculite as the insulator as he prefers it because it stays loose.



Your mason may have pulled aluminium liners in the past. But there is no reason why a stainless steel liner should not last 25-50 years or more. Clay will degrade at the same rate if not faster than a good quality stainless liner. If your mason was both certified as a Mason & NFI certified as solid fuel appliance technician with many years of service under his belt then I would go with his experience. However, I know many mason / NFI guys that would wholeheartedly disagree with your guy. 

Another tip is the comment about oak acidity. Never heard of such a thing...

So I would suggest, 

1) if the entire masonry chimney has to come down for whatever reason... Install a solid pack Class A stainless steel chimney. Even though the air cooled ones are cheaper go with the better stuff... 1" or 2" pack. It'll be cheaper than re-doing the entire masonry chimney. Olympia Chimney for example offer a 'Forever Lifetime warranty' on their chimneys which is better than what your mason can offer. 

2) If the chimney is in reasonable shape but the clay liner is falling apart you have 2 choice. If the clay liner is large enough to accommodate an insulated flex or solid liner then that is the best and least expensive option. 

If there is not enough room you mason will have to break down the clay flue with a special tool so you can put in an insulated liner. 

Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Fyrebug

npd2408 said:


> Could you tell me if anyone in North East PA is going to have them? Thanks been waiting going to build a chimney within the next two mos. Got the wood ready. Was not hard to convince the wife on the purchase told her the specs. Tax credit and efficency.



Not sure exactly in your area. I think Pro Hardware will have them on special order. You could look to get it from Northern Tools or other etailers. 

As far as chimney, if you don't have one don't build a masonry one. Get a good quality Stainless Steel Class A Chimney. Olympia makes about the best one on the market but not available direct to consumer. 

Champion Brand also is outstanding and available here... Class-A Double Wall | WoodlandDirect.com: Chimney Systems

And Woodland will also be carrying the Tundra furnace.


----------



## Fyrebug

*Install Manual now Available...*

I'm getting a fair amount of PM's about specific installs. We finally have the install manual online and you can get it here...

http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_10-06-2013.pdf


----------



## Highbeam

I see the emissions spec is 6.6 grams on this 3.5 CF EPA furnace. Will it be legal in WA state? 

I read the manual online today and there are still some mistakes in it. Typos or missing variable information. Really good manual though with lots of information.


----------



## goatguy

Yes, it looks very good! I'm especially excited about that HUGE ashpan, Why in the world don't more stoves implement those?

The only things that dissapointed me was the use of wing nuts on the ash door and heat exchanger door. I'd much rather have the typical over-center lock door handles, but I suppose its all part of cost saving and getting the price below $2k. Also, I didn't know that you could only use 2 of the 4, 8" duct outlets. I'll have to start replanning how to duct the house. I had originally thought all four would be usalbe at the same time.

Other than that, looks great!


----------



## Highbeam

goatguy said:


> Yes, it looks very good! I'm especially excited about that HUGE ashpan, Why in the world don't more stoves implement those?



Don't get too excited about that ash pan. It is of the design where you must dig in the firebox for a plug to open a chute and then you must push all the ashes into the tiny hole with a shovel. It is not a good system. Perhaps the pan holds a good bit of ash but the effort required to use the system is higher than simply shoveling into a bucket. Many stoves use this IMO stupid ash dump system and it is actually worse than having no ash pan at all. 

Superior would be some sort of grate system that allows you to dump ashes into a large, think 10 gallons, ash pan while the fire is hot and without having to dig in the ash bed for opening the chute or for pushing ashes into the tiny hole. Think shaker grate.

Shovel and bucket will be the common tool of choice with a chute n' plug system.


----------



## Fyrebug

Highbeam said:


> I see the emissions spec is 6.6 grams on this 3.5 CF EPA furnace. Will it be legal in WA state?
> 
> I read the manual online today and there are still some mistakes in it. Typos or missing variable information. Really good manual though with lots of information.



Unfortunately no... Washington State will not approve it. 

BTW PLS PM me any problems or mistakes on the manuals. They are a work in progress and we appreciate your input.


----------



## Fyrebug

Highbeam said:


> Don't get too excited about that ash pan. It is of the design where you must dig in the firebox for a plug to open a chute and then you must push all the ashes into the tiny hole with a shovel. It is not a good system. Perhaps the pan holds a good bit of ash but the effort required to use the system is higher than simply shoveling into a bucket. Many stoves use this IMO stupid ash dump system and it is actually worse than having no ash pan at all.
> 
> Superior would be some sort of grate system that allows you to dump ashes into a large, think 10 gallons, ash pan while the fire is hot and without having to dig in the ash bed for opening the chute or for pushing ashes into the tiny hole. Think shaker grate.
> 
> Shovel and bucket will be the common tool of choice with a chute n' plug system.



Maybe a drawing will explain it better... But the ash hole (no smart comments here :msp_confused is not a chute but a rectangular hole covered with a grate. The grate is then covered with a cast iron plug. So this should satisfy all your requirement. 

View attachment 301125
View attachment 301126


----------



## Fyrebug

goatguy said:


> Yes, it looks very good! I'm especially excited about that HUGE ashpan, Why in the world don't more stoves implement those?
> 
> The only things that dissapointed me was the use of wing nuts on the ash door and heat exchanger door. I'd much rather have the typical over-center lock door handles, but I suppose its all part of cost saving and getting the price below $2k. Also, I didn't know that you could only use 2 of the 4, 8" duct outlets. I'll have to start replanning how to duct the house. I had originally thought all four would be usalbe at the same time.
> 
> Other than that, looks great!



Ducting has to do with code & certification. But its likely many users will want to put as many outlets as they can.


----------



## Highbeam

Fyrebug said:


> the ash hole (no smart comments here :msp_confused is not a chute but a rectangular hole covered with a grate. The grate is then covered with a cast iron plug. QUOTE]
> 
> So the grate must be covered by the plug during operation? If so, then this is a plug-n'-chute system and undesirable. This means that the operator would have to dig through the hot ash bed, locate the plug, remove the plug and then scoop ash into the chute. Maybe stop a few times to empty the ash pan and then replace the plug hoping that enough ash has been cleaned out of the chute to allow the plug to set in place. Don't you think it is easier to just shovel the ash into a bucket? I actually worry that the grate is only making things worse by preventing any chunks of coal or clinkers from falling through the chute.
> 
> If the grate remains open during operation then you might be on to something.


----------



## Fyrebug

Highbeam said:


> Fyrebug said:
> 
> 
> 
> the ash hole (no smart comments here :msp_confused is not a chute but a rectangular hole covered with a grate. The grate is then covered with a cast iron plug. QUOTE]
> 
> So the grate must be covered by the plug during operation? If so, then this is a plug-n'-chute system and undesirable. This means that the operator would have to dig through the hot ash bed, locate the plug, remove the plug and then scoop ash into the chute. Maybe stop a few times to empty the ash pan and then replace the plug hoping that enough ash has been cleaned out of the chute to allow the plug to set in place. Don't you think it is easier to just shovel the ash into a bucket? I actually worry that the grate is only making things worse by preventing any chunks of coal or clinkers from falling through the chute.
> 
> If the grate remains open during operation then you might be on to something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ash pan is sealed so as not to leak combustion air through the grate. The plug is just an assurance.
> 
> Wether or not the user decides to use the Ash Pan or not is entirely up to them. When we did a survey of customers this is one feature they really wanted.
> 
> When designing anything there usually is some trade-off. At least this gives the customer a choice.
Click to expand...


----------



## Highbeam

Fyrebug said:


> Highbeam said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ash pan is sealed so as not to leak combustion air through the grate. The plug is just an assurance.
> 
> Wether or not the user decides to use the Ash Pan or not is entirely up to them. When we did a survey of customers this is one feature they really wanted.
> 
> When designing anything there usually is some trade-off. At least this gives the customer a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's great Fyre, I really like the furnace as an alternate to the much less advanced Englander 28-3500. I wish you could have made it clean burning enough to be sold in WA.
Click to expand...


----------



## Fyrebug

*Some eye Candy...*

View attachment 301262


----------



## blades

Ooh, Awe, must resist, must resist. ( just hate dragging wood down the stairs, guess i will have find out about putting a walkout in the basement. Been tossin that around for a while now)


----------



## goatguy

blades said:


> Ooh, Awe, must resist, must resist. ( just hate dragging wood down the stairs, guess i will have find out about putting a walkout in the basement. Been tossin that around for a while now)



You could always just make a chute/log slide down through one of the windows... 

Makes it a two man operation, but is a lot cheaper than a walkout. Granted walkouts are awesome, so not a bad way to go either


----------



## Fyrebug

Highbeam said:


> Fyrebug said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's great Fyre, I really like the furnace as an alternate to the much less advanced Englander 28-3500. I wish you could have made it clean burning enough to be sold in WA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once the new EPA is implemented it's likely that if furnaces meet CSA B415 it'll be good to go for WA State as well. We probably have to wait another year or two...
Click to expand...


----------



## laynes69

I noticed in the manual, that these furnace's use pumice brick over the conventional firebrick. Over on hearth there's been many threads debating the differences. Why didn't SBI use the heavy brick, was there a performance gain using the lighter brick?


----------



## Fyrebug

laynes69 said:


> I noticed in the manual, that these furnace's use pumice brick over the conventional firebrick. Over on hearth there's been many threads debating the differences. Why didn't SBI use the heavy brick, was there a performance gain using the lighter brick?



Yes, that was much to do about nothing... the great 2012 brick debate on the other site. 

While pumice (ie grey porous) bricks have a slight refractory advantage over heavy duty bricks due to its air pockets, this is negligible due to its thickness in a wood stove. This would be more noticeable in a kiln for example where a lot of material needs to be used. Our own internal studies have shown it doesn't make one whit of difference in the performance and efficiencies of a smaller fire box (stove, furnace). Indeed, EPA doesn't care either way. If it made a big difference they would state the unit had to maintain the same bricks in order to keep its certification as they do with other material & specs.

Since we buy all our bricks from the USA the pumice bricks are less expensive than the heavy duty bricks. And since we wanted to keep the retail cost below a certain point we used pumice instead of Heavy bricks.

However, a lot of MFG imports bricks from China and they dont make pumice bricks over there. They just have the heavy ones. That's why in a big box store heavy bricks are less expensive. We buy next to nothing from China so we pay more than some of the other guys.


----------



## laynes69

That makes sense. There's a few design differences I like over our Caddy, like the larger ashpan and the secondary combustion tubes under the firebox look like they're covered from the incoming cool air from the distribution blower. Maybe it doesn't make a difference. Is there a reason why only 2 outlets can be used instead of 4? Just wondering.


----------



## brenndatomu

Fyrebug said:


> View attachment 301262



Your garage?


----------



## Fyrebug

laynes69 said:


> That makes sense. There's a few design differences I like over our Caddy, like the larger ashpan and the secondary combustion tubes under the firebox look like they're covered from the incoming cool air from the distribution blower. Maybe it doesn't make a difference. Is there a reason why only 2 outlets can be used instead of 4? Just wondering.



I havent really checked for difference in the firebox but I dont think there are any, otherwise we would have to re-certify with EPA.

As far as the outlet, it has to do with code... not sure which (UL, construction ...). But we have to follow the rules.


----------



## Fyrebug

brenndatomu said:


> Your garage?



Nope... Done with the baby thing....


----------



## laynes69

Fyrebug said:


> I havent really checked for difference in the firebox but I dont think there are any, otherwise we would have to re-certify with EPA.
> 
> As far as the outlet, it has to do with code... not sure which (UL, construction ...). But we have to follow the rules.



The firebox is the same, it's the ashpan that's different (bigger). The ashpan on our furnace goes in-between those 2 channels underneath, where on the Drolet's, the ashpan goes around those channels. My only thought there is a better preheat of secondary air.


----------



## Highbeam

The smooth mandrel bent looking ductwork looks swanky.


----------



## Fyrebug

Highbeam said:


> The smooth mandrel bent looking ductwork looks swanky.



HighBeam are you a poet? 4 more syllables and you have a iambic octameter... 

Better yet a Haiku...

*The smooth mandrel 

bent looking ductwork

Looks swanky...*

Well not quite but pretty close. You're a poet and you know it!

Next you'll tell us you're a gun control liberal commie who drinks Perrier and wears plaid socks with your Birkenstock. In other words a Canadian!:msp_scared:

Ps. you know I'm kidding right?


----------



## Highbeam

Fyrebug said:


> HighBeam are you a poet? 4 more syllables and you have a iambic octameter...
> 
> Better yet a Haiku...
> 
> *The smooth mandrel
> 
> bent looking ductwork
> 
> Looks swanky...*
> 
> Well not quite but pretty close. You're a poet and you know it!
> 
> Next you'll tell us you're a gun control liberal commie who drinks Perrier and wears plaid socks with your Birkenstock. In other words a Canadian!:msp_scared:
> 
> Ps. you know I'm kidding right?



I don't even know what a haiku is. When I went to engineering school, the course layout did not allow for anything that wasn't math or science related. I was kinda ripped off on exposure to many things artsy fartsy but I can tell you lots about sewage and concrete.


----------



## Fyrebug

Highbeam said:


> I can tell you lots about sewage and concrete.



Like I said... a poet!:msp_cool:


----------



## TruckerTeacher

Fyrebug said:


> Both the Tundra and Heatmax will be available in August/ Sept at various stores/Channels: Menards, Lowes.com, Northern Tools, Family Farm etc...
> 
> I'm hoping to announce a promo just for AS user in August. Stay tuned.





its almost august , do you know when they will be available at the menards store in Richmond Indiana ?


----------



## Fyrebug

TruckerTeacher said:


> its almost august , do you know when they will be available at the menards store in Richmond Indiana ?



I dont have visibility to their inventory and where they ship to.

We just started to ship some units this past week. But before stuff is on the floor I would think more toward the end of August.


----------



## npd2408

Fyrebug said:


> I dont have visibility to their inventory and where they ship to.
> 
> We just started to ship some units this past week. But before stuff is on the floor I would think more toward the end of August.



Cant wait to get one. Been waiting too long.


----------



## mopar969

I might have missed this but how can the furnace work in a power outage if the air inlet damper has no power???

Also, can you take the sides and top of the air jacket off of the furnace to aid the heat flowing naturally during a power outage just like you can do on the dakas?


----------



## Fyrebug

mopar969 said:


> I might have missed this but how can the furnace work in a power outage if the air inlet damper has no power???
> 
> Also, can you take the sides and top of the air jacket off of the furnace to aid the heat flowing naturally during a power outage just like you can do on the dakas?



In case of power outage the primary air damper shuts down for safety reason. There is still some air flowing to the primary air and air to the the burn tubes is unrestricted. Basically your furnace goes into a slower burn mode.

There should be enough air flowing in the blower box through natural convection to bring some heat. It just wont be flowing very much through the distribution ducting. 

You can look at the furnace breakdown diagram here to see what else is possible. DROLET TUNDRA FURNACE | Drolet


----------



## mopar969

Because of the EPA efficient design of the furnace can you burn paper logs/bricks in the Drolet Tundra/HeatMax?


----------



## Fyrebug

mopar969 said:


> Because of the EPA efficient design of the furnace can you burn paper logs/bricks in the Drolet Tundra/HeatMax?



MFG logs are not recommended according to the manual. You may void the warranty if you do. 

Some people will burn them anyway. If you must only use logs made of sawdust (no binders or chemicals) and only use one or two at a time. 

They are very dry and dense therefore put out more BTU per pounds than split wood logs. If you misuse (use too many) you risk of overfiring and damaging the firebox. Use at your own risk.


----------



## mopar969

Not to keep this thread going, but why can't you use the paper logs in the furnace? Will they damage the secondary burn tubes or something else?


----------



## brenndatomu

I think this is what Fyrebug meant to link to. http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_10-06-2013.pdf Read the whole thing, there is a ton of good info in there for any install, not just a Tundra. The parts breakdown is on page 68 if that's what you were looking for. 

Also, I think the paper logs are not recommended for the same reasons as the sawdust bricks.


----------



## mopar969

I just can't see the paper logs giving the btus like the sawdust bricks. I am thinking that the way the tundra burns the paper bricks might cause a problem for the secondary burn tubes or no?


----------



## brenndatomu

Nah, those secondary tubes will take unbelievable abuse, usually pretty easy to replace if ya ever did smoke em.
Too high temps are more about warping/cracking the firebox or burning up the stovepipe.
If ya throw the bricks or manmade logs in on a good hot bed of coals and leave the air turned up high, that is a good recipe for makin your stove/furnace go nuclear on ya's! :msp_ohmy:


----------



## mopar969

Doesn't the main air need to be open to load new logs and start a good fire going? So during a power outage how will the wood be loaded and light if the damper stays closed?


----------



## laynes69

mopar969 said:


> Doesn't the main air need to be open to load new logs and start a good fire going? So during a power outage how will the wood be loaded and light if the damper stays closed?



Manual operation. You don't stuff the firebox when there's an outage, you run smaller loads. Loading on a coal bed ensures for quick ignition. Even with the damper closed, the fire still receives a small percentage of air.


----------



## mopar969

Okay I don't remember seeing in the manual how to manually control the damper though(without it plugged in)? As long as I can do that is all that matters!


----------



## mopar969

*Northern tool has it*

Hi everybody I wanted to let everyone know that Northern Tool has the Drolet Heat max for $1799.99 save one for me!


----------



## brenndatomu

mopar969 said:


> Hi everybody I wanted to let everyone know that Northern Tool has the Drolet Heat max for $1799.99 save one for me!



Getcha one yet? :smile2:


----------



## mopar969

Not yet, I am waiting for lowes.com to stock it but if they are priced higher it might be worth buying it from northern tool and paying the shipping!!


----------



## 82mkiiltype

I was just reading through the installation manual ... when I found something that completely derails my plans.

http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_10-06-2013.pdf

Page 49, Figure 7.5.3

Can this furnace not be installed in Canada as an add-on? Parallel configurations are not allowed here... but the Series configuration shown in the figure is exactly how I was told to hook up a Heatmax 1400 by a very picky installer? 

Oil furnace first, looped into cold air intake of the wood furnace then out to ductwork with 2" clearances for 7'.

I also noticed that you are only allowed to use 2 of the 8" ducts out of the top. My Brothers Heatmax has the top completely removed and a full plenum installed on top. I'm guessing that the new higher efficiency requires higher temps close to the firebox and therefor a full plenum is a very bad idea?

Thoughts???


----------



## Fyrebug

82mkiiltype said:


> I was just reading through the installation manual ... when I found something that completely derails my plans.
> 
> http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_10-06-2013.pdf
> 
> Page 49, Figure 7.5.3
> 
> Can this furnace not be installed in Canada as an add-on? Parallel configurations are not allowed here... but the Series configuration shown in the figure is exactly how I was told to hook up a Heatmax 1400 by a very picky installer?
> 
> Oil furnace first, looped into cold air intake of the wood furnace then out to ductwork with 2" clearances for 7'.
> 
> I also noticed that you are only allowed to use 2 of the 8" ducts out of the top. My Brothers Heatmax has the top completely removed and a full plenum installed on top. I'm guessing that the new higher efficiency requires higher temps close to the firebox and therefor a full plenum is a very bad idea?
> 
> Thoughts???



You are right, parallel installation is not allowed in Canada. It's a code thing. For Canada you will have to run separate ductwork from your existing furnace. 

I know it's a pain but it has to do with the certification process in Canada (CSA). With the Caddy line you can install them inline with the current furnace.


----------



## Cloud IT

*Damper*

The images you posted show a control box for the automated damper yet the image of the product on Northern tools shows a manual damper. Drolet Tundra HeatMax Wood Furnace  130,000 BTU, EPA-Certified, Model# DF01000 | Wood Stoves| Northern Tool + Equipment

What gives?


----------



## Fyrebug

Cloud IT said:


> The images you posted show a control box for the automated damper yet the image of the product on Northern tools shows a manual damper. Drolet Tundra HeatMax Wood Furnace  130,000 BTU, EPA-Certified, Model# DF01000 | Wood Stoves| Northern Tool + Equipment
> 
> What gives?


 
The control Box is always included. The damper is on a on/off electric switch. For reason of safety if the power goes off the damper automatically closes. 

For about $20 u can buy a t-stat to control the damper.


----------



## Cloud IT

Fyrebug said:


> The control Box is always included. The damper is on a on/off electric switch. For reason of safety if the power goes off the damper automatically closes.
> 
> For about $20 u can buy a t-stat to control the damper.



Did you see the image at the link i posted? If you look closely you can see there is no control box and there is an additional manual lever to open and close the damper.

Is northern tool selling a different furnace or do they have the wrong image displayed?


----------



## Fyrebug

Cloud IT said:


> Did you see the image at the link i posted? If you look closely you can see there is no control box and there is an additional manual lever to open and close the damper.
> 
> Is northern tool selling a different furnace or do they have the wrong image displayed?



Good eye! They are using an older picture. This is the one they should be using...

View attachment 309234


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> Good eye! They are using an older picture. This is the one they should be using...
> 
> View attachment 309234



If one was using this furnace with no electricity or no blower assist, would you still need two duct ports or would one suffice?


----------



## goatguy

arrow said:


> If one was using this furnace with no electricity or no blower assist, would you still need two duct ports or would one suffice?




In this case, you may want to use all 4 outlets. I would think you'll have a greater chance of overfiring without the blower to get rid of the heat, and then only using 1/2 the reccomended outlets will trap even more heat in the unit. The idea of a wood furnace is to get as much heat out of the wood and into your house as possible, restricting the thermosyphoning effects of a "no electricity" situation will really hamper your ability to get the heat out of the furnace.


----------



## goatguy

It's now mid-August, and I don't see any of these units at menards or any websites (except for norhterntool) How much longer?


----------



## arrow

goatguy said:


> In this case, you may want to use all 4 outlets. I would think you'll have a greater chance of overfiring without the blower to get rid of the heat, and then only using 1/2 the reccomended outlets will trap even more heat in the unit. The idea of a wood furnace is to get as much heat out of the wood and into your house as possible, restricting the thermosyphoning effects of a "no electricity" situation will really hamper your ability to get the heat out of the furnace.



You are probably correct in this assumption. The only differential is if the blower itself somehow makes the flame hotter. Yes I know its not blowing "on the flame" but through the heat exchangers on the furnace. Still I am wondering if there is some residual effect on the flame. Allegedly the Amish use no electricity but I do not know if they do this with the Caddy which has the same fire box as the Tundra.


----------



## npd2408

Hope they start selling within 100 miles of home, planned on getting one soon.:msp_sad:


----------



## Cloud IT

Is tractor supply supposed to get them in at some point?


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> If one was using this furnace with no electricity or no blower assist, would you still need two duct ports or would one suffice?



The furnace performs better with the blower and static pressure set up properly with the ductwork setup mentioned in the manual.

In case of power outage there should be enough air flow around the blower box to get some natural convection around the fire box and up the ductwork. However, there will not be enough to overcome elbows and other restrictions (horizontals) to provide meaningful heat to your house. BTW, this applies to all furnaces.

So for any lenghty power outage or if you are Amish, you want to provide as much unrestricted air flow and help out heat escape out of the unit... You could remove the top plate and ductwork but then the heat will go straight up. If you do not have a floor grating to let heat go to other part of the house you will have minimal benefits from this. The furnace job is to create heat and once that's done under power outage, it's your job to figure out a way to distribute this heat. 

Remember heat rises but has a hard time to travel horizontally without help.

If you experience power outage on a regular basis in your area the best way to deal with it is to have another wood stove strategically placed somewhere else in the house for better heat distribution to help out the furnace.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> You are probably correct in this assumption. The only differential is if the blower itself somehow makes the flame hotter. Yes I know its not blowing "on the flame" but through the heat exchangers on the furnace. Still I am wondering if there is some residual effect on the flame. Allegedly the Amish use no electricity but I do not know if they do this with the Caddy which has the same fire box as the Tundra.



The blower is strictly a convection blower not a combustion blower. It has no effect whatsoever on the flame. The blower air does not go through the heat exchanger tubes but around the combustion chamber and heat exchanger.

View attachment 309881


----------



## Fyrebug

*UPDATE:* The furnaces start shipping from our plant at the end of the month. So you should start seeing them on various web sites and stores around the first week of September. 

TSC will not carry this unit. 

Will let you know more shortly.


----------



## goatguy

Looks like it is now on Family Farm and Home's website, $1699

https://www.familyfarmandhome.com/inet/storefront/store.php?mode=showproductdetail&product=12595


----------



## Fyrebug

goatguy said:


> Looks like it is now on Family Farm and Home's website, $1699
> 
> https://www.familyfarmandhome.com/inet/storefront/store.php?mode=showproductdetail&product=12595



Yes, I was at FF in Grand Rapids a couple of weeks ago. They must have a promo because I thought they would retail for $1,799.


----------



## goatguy

Fyrebug said:


> *UPDATE:* The furnaces start shipping from our plant at the end of the month. So you should start seeing them on various web sites and stores around the first week of September.
> 
> TSC will not carry this unit.
> 
> Will let you know more shortly.




And it's the first week of September! Any day now right? haha


----------



## lampmfg

These furnaces (or any other furnaces) are not certified by the EPA. I'm sure that Fryebug is aware that they were forced to remove any reference to EPA certification from promotion or advertising since there is *NO* actual EPA certification for wood furnaces and the standards haven't even been finalized yet. 

You can see where the advertising at Northern Tool has already been updated to reflect this. 

For those of you who don't care about EPA certification then this shouldn't have any effect on your purchasing decision. As a competing manufacturer this levels out the playing field. Especially, when we have been open and honest by posting the actual Kuuma Vapor-Fire test results right on our website.

I don't know much about this furnace line but they do look nice.  I just want everyone to understand the EPA certification or lack there of. I know as a potential customer I would want this information.


----------



## Fyrebug

lampmfg said:


> These furnaces (or any other furnaces) are not certified by the EPA. I'm sure that Fryebug is aware that they were forced to remove any reference to EPA certification from promotion or advertising since there is *NO* actual EPA certification for wood furnaces and the standards haven't even been finalized yet.
> 
> You can see where the advertising at Northern Tool has already been updated to reflect this.
> 
> For those of you who don't care about EPA certification then this shouldn't have any effect on your purchasing decision. As a competing manufacturer this levels out the playing field. Especially, when we have been open and honest by posting the actual Kuuma Vapor-Fire test results right on our website.
> 
> I don't know much about this furnace line but they do look nice.  I just want everyone to understand the EPA certification or lack there of. I know as a potential customer I would want this information.



Not quite accurate... 

1) The PSG Caddy is certified to EPA Wood stove standard ie below 6.7 gr/hr. This is listed on the EPA web site page 12. http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

2) Since the Tundra and Heatmax uses the same firebox we also listed and certified those under current EPA and CSA B415.1

3) *The reference to EPA certification has nothing whatsoever to do whether or not the unit is furnace or not.* It is an 'emission' standard that was created initially for wood stoves. Which means if you create a wood burning appliance (stove, furnace, boiler, rocket, masonry) and choose to certify to that standard that is entirely up to you. It doesn't mean your boiler is now a wood stove, it just means you can prove you burn extremely clean. 

4) Your reference as to why Northern Tools had to remove the EPA logo has nothing to do whatsoever with furnaces. As of last week, EPA no longer wants MFG & retailers to use their logo. That is why if you go on our Drolet web site or any our web sites, we've created our own "This Appliance is EPA Certified" tag line. Most MFG and retailers will likely follow those rules shortly. 

There's been lengthy debates about competing MFG of furnaces about the validity of EPA certification for wood furnace. What it boils down to is either their furnace does not meet EPA emission levels or they cannot afford the certification.

So if I can enlighten everyone...

1) There are currently no EPA emission certification for wood furnace. However, we chose to have our furnaces certified to the "wood stove standards" which is emissions below 7.6 gr/hr as per EPA. 

2) EPA has no problem having any MFG having their furnaces certified to wood stoves emissions standards. This test is actually extremely difficult to pass. The bigger the firebox the more difficult it becomes. Therefore we are proud to advertise our furnaces even passes smaller wood stoves emissions standards. It's like saying a dump truck has the same mileage as a Jetta. 

3) EPA is likely to introduce an emission standards similar to CSA B415 which will be around 4 gr/Kg wood burned. Since we already pass CSA B415 we're good to go. 

4) Where else can you get a 77% efficient, smoke burning, creosote busting, EPA certified fully loaded furnace for less than $1,800? and... can get a $300 tax rebate to boot!

There is no need on this thread between MFG to debate (read pissing match) the fine points of EPA for wood furnaces. If you want I can provide the links to the previous lengthy and eye glazing debates about this.


----------



## Fyrebug

goatguy said:


> And it's the first week of September! Any day now right? haha



Family Farm is shipping it to their stores as we speak.


----------



## lampmfg

This sounds a little different from your explanation? I'm guessing all the retailers will follow suit but I could be wrong.

We have discussed the matter with SBI, manufacturers of Drolet Tundra Heatmax, and they have agreed to remove any claims to a furnace being EPA certified from their website and advertising/promotional materials. We also discussed the matter with Northern Tool, a distributor. They will also remove the claim from their website. 

Rafael Sanchez, Ph.D.
Air Branch/Wood Heater Program Lead
Monitoring, Assistance, and Media Programs Division
Office of Compliance
U.S. EPA

3) EPA is likely to introduce an emission standards similar to CSA B415 which will be around 4 gr/Kg wood burned. Since we already pass CSA B415 we're good to go. 

I'm guessing you will have to retest once the new standard is actually finalized?? I doubt the EPA doesn't want some extra cash


----------



## Fyrebug

lampmfg said:


> This sounds a little different from your explanation? I'm guessing all the retailers will follow suit but I could be wrong.
> 
> 3) EPA is likely to introduce an emission standards similar to CSA B415 which will be around 4 gr/Kg wood burned. Since we already pass CSA B415 we're good to go.
> 
> I'm guessing you will have to retest once the new standard is actually finalized?? I doubt the EPA doesn't want some extra cash



So Garrett, tell me this... Did you get authorization to post on a very public forum what appears to be private communication between a government official and yourself? 

Secondly, Did this government official provided all the details of his communication with your competitor or just enough to placate you? In other words, do you have all the details?

Please note the PSG Caddy is fully EPA certified and that will not change. There is more to this than meets the eyes.


----------



## lampmfg

Fyrebug said:


> So Garrett, tell me this... Did you get authorization to post on a very public forum what appears to be private communication between a government official and yourself? Is this professional?
> 
> Secondly, Did this government official provided all the details of his communication with your competitor or just enough to placate you? In other words, do you have all the details?
> 
> Please note the PSG Caddy is fully EPA certified and that will not change. There is more to this than meets the eyes.
> 
> I cant comment much more but we're not worried...



Was it professional to claim and market that the Drolet furnace as EPA certified when that is not the case? Apparently the EPA agrees as well.

I know being able to claim something like this without consequence would put many other furnace manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage, which I don't feel is fair. However, it's probably smart from a marketing standpoint.


----------



## lampmfg

I do think you designed a nice looking furnace and think it was very smart to get everyone's feedback on here to really see what the customer wanted and what they actually could get at that price point. 

I just know as a consumer that I would want the facts before buying something especially when throwing the EPA's name around. 

Otherwise cheers on your new furnace


----------



## Fyrebug

lampmfg said:


> Was it professional to claim and market that the Drolet furnace as EPA certified when that is not the case? Apparently the EPA agrees as well.
> 
> I know being able to claim something like this without consequence would put many other furnace manufacturers at a competitive disadvantage, which I don't feel is fair. However, it's probably smart from a marketing standpoint.



As stated there is more to the story than meets the eyes. 

It's all good...:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Steve NW WI

Ahhh, fall is in the air. Leaves are starting to turn, mornings are cool and crisp, and the sound of bickering stove salesmen fills the air...


----------



## Uncle Stashu

Fyrebug said:


> I havent really checked for difference in the firebox but I dont think there are any, otherwise we would have to re-certify with EPA.
> 
> As far as the outlet, it has to do with code... not sure which (UL, construction ...). But we have to follow the rules.



Is the first statement quoted at the crux of this issue? I.E., because the firebox came from an EPA certified furnace (Caddy) the new furnace was considered to be certified as well? I was wondering if something like this was the case even before I re-read this thread and saw the above quote. Not trying to add kindling to the fire or anything, just curious. 

Read this thread and I am very interested in the Drolet, especially at that price point. Currently I am using a Woodchuck 2900 that I purchased in anticipation of switching over to anthracite coal several years ago. The switch to coal has yet to happen - I happen to enjoy running the saw and splitting the wood by hand. It's a sickness, I know. :msp_tongue: The woodchuck does coal very well (I've purchased a few bags to try it out) and it heats with wood just fine, but.....as has been discussed about older-style burners, it's not terribly efficient and I'm up on a ladder cleaning the chimney out a couple of times a season. :bang: It would be really nice to burn less wood and put away the ladder.....Oh yeah and I'd like to watch the fire through the glass door - I'd watch that for hours!!


----------



## lampmfg

Steve NW WI said:


> Ahhh, fall is in the air. Leaves are starting to turn, mornings are cool and crisp, and the sound of bickering stove salesmen fills the air...



This actually me made lol:biggrin:


----------



## Fyrebug

Uncle Stashu said:


> Is the first statement quoted at the crux of this issue? I.E., because the firebox came from an EPA certified furnace (Caddy) the new furnace was considered to be certified as well? I was wondering if something like this was the case even before I re-read this thread and saw the above quote. Not trying to add kindling to the fire or anything, just curious.



It's part of it.


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> It's part of it.



Almost everyone is looking for efficiency. Kuuma's appear to be one of the most efficient however two problems for me were A. The price and B. their smaller furnace (which is all that I would need) will only take 16" wood. Having a 3 yr supply of 18" to 20" wood narrows furnace choice down. Everyone is going to plug in their criteria and look for a device that closely meets their needs. This is why "numbers" are inconsequential to the extent of finite comparisons. I burn 5 cords per year to heat my home from Oct - Apr for 1800 sq ft (not including the cellar) and this was previously done with an epa stove in the cellar. I want to burn that or less. I have a budget otherwise I'd get the largest Kuuma as I think that is one of the most efficient devices out there. Since I cannot, I want an efficient device at a price point I can afford and that seems to be the Tundra. Anything else is simply drivel to me.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Almost everyone is looking for efficiency. Kuuma's appear to be one of the most efficient however two problems for me were A. The price and B. their smaller furnace (which is all that I would need) will only take 16" wood. Having a 3 yr supply of 18" to 20" wood narrows furnace choice down. Everyone is going to plug in their criteria and look for a device that closely meets their needs. This is why "numbers" are inconsequential to the extent of finite comparisons. I burn 5 cords per year to heat my home from Oct - Apr for 1800 sq ft (not including the cellar) and this was previously done with an epa stove in the cellar. I want to burn that or less. I have a budget otherwise I'd get the largest Kuuma as I think that is one of the most efficient devices out there. Since I cannot, I want an efficient device at a price point I can afford and that seems to be the Tundra. Anything else is simply drivel to me.



True that...

At the end of the day specs are specs and while we reps like to get hung up on numbers and splitting hairs, the customer will choose based on their budget and their requirement.


----------



## arrow

Now if someone would be so kind and explain something to me since I do not have hot air I'd appreciate it. I have to retro fit ducting in my cellar for the new furnace. It will be simple with two outlets on either side of the house. Does "cold air" return mean air that has been already heated and rotates back to the furnace from within the home or is cold air considered what the furnace sucks in from the cellar? In other words do I have to provide a cold air register incorporated within the heated living space that is ducted to the furnace giving me a total of 3 registers. 2 outputs and one return?


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> Now if someone would be so kind and explain something to me since I do not have hot air. I have to retro fit ducting in my cellar for the new furnace. It will be simple with two outlets on either side of the house. Does "cold air" return mean air that has been already heated and rotates back to the furnace from within the home or is cold air considered what the furnace sucks in from the cellar? In other words do I have to provide a cold air register incorporated within the heated living space that is ducted to the furnace giving me a total of 3 registers. 2 outputs and one return?



If you currently have a furnace with a cold air return then you could just connect the ductwork with the optional cold-air return kit. have you had a chance to download the manual? http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_27-06-2013.pdf

If you do not, dont worry. Many wood furnace users do not use a cold air return in their house and do without. It is always preferable to have a return system. There's many reasons for that. 

The following link explains the idea behind it. 

HowStuffWorks "Heating and Cooling System Basics: Tips and Guidelines"


----------



## Fyrebug

*Correction on my previous comments...*

Okay, with all that was written, I felt the need to clarify what was said before by having a direct conversation with the test lab people at the manufacturer. They work on various industry committees, including the one involving the new NSPS. So here it is:

1) The PSG Caddy is certified to EPA Wood stove standard ie below 7.5 gr/hr. This is listed on the EPA web site page 12. http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...tifiedwood.pdf

2) Since the Tundra and Heatmax use the same firebox (with a different aesthetic), the manufacturer filed for EPA certification on those two models and submitted the paperwork. They are awaiting certification (i.e. addition of those two models on their existing Caddy certificate). In the meantime, they have agreed to remove claims regarding EPA certification. Such claims can only be made when the actual EPA updated certificate has been re-issued. The manufacturer expects the new certificate to be re-issued soon. 

3) *EPA certification applies to wood heaters. However, it does not restrict the type of wood heater to which the standard is applied.* EPA Method 28 is an 'emissions' standard that was created initially for freestanding wood stoves. Nevertheless, nothing prevents a manufacturer to test a wood furnace to the wood heater standard and obtain EPA certification. The same goes for fireplaces. There are many EPA-certified wood fireplaces on the market (BIS, RSF, etc.). In other words, one needs to see EPA-certified fireplaces as wood heaters “designed” as a fireplace. 

4) EPA’s decision to remove exemption on furnaces in the upcoming NSPS was in part influenced by the fact that some manufacturers were already able to make clean-burning, EPA-certified wood furnaces. Some EPA representatives have visited the PSG booth during the HPBA Show at more than one occasion to take a closer look at the technology and they have praised the initiative by some manufacturers to clean their combustion even though they were not obligated to do so.

So if I can sum up:

1) There are currently no EPA emissions standard specific to central systems. However, manufacturers can chose to have their central systems (furnaces, boilers) certified to the "wood heater standard" which requires emissions below 7.5 gr/hr. Same logic applies to wood fireplaces.

2) In the new NSPS, EPA is likely to introduce an emissions standard similar to CSA B415.1-10 which will be around 0.40 gr/MJ of heat output. This is subject to review, but it is consistent with the comments Gil Wood made at a presentation to the industry at the 2013 HPBA Show in Orlando.


----------



## Cloud IT

arrow said:


> Almost everyone is looking for efficiency. Kuuma's appear to be one of the most efficient however two problems for me were A. The price and B. their smaller furnace (which is all that I would need) will only take 16" wood. Having a 3 yr supply of 18" to 20" wood narrows furnace choice down. Everyone is going to plug in their criteria and look for a device that closely meets their needs. This is why "numbers" are inconsequential to the extent of finite comparisons. I burn 5 cords per year to heat my home from Oct - Apr for 1800 sq ft (not including the cellar) and this was previously done with an epa stove in the cellar. I want to burn that or less. I have a budget otherwise I'd get the largest Kuuma as I think that is one of the most efficient devices out there. Since I cannot, I want an efficient device at a price point I can afford and that seems to be the Tundra. Anything else is simply drivel to me.



This is very spot on for me as well. I cut wood with my dad and he likes the longer pieces. Having a short firebox just isn't practical for me.

In addition I would like to add that I love the fact that Kuuma's built in America. I think its the best quality hot air furnace made. I wish they would offer a glass door but respect their desire to maintain maximum efficiency. I'll be placing the furnace in an area more appropriate for a nice looking wood stove so the glass door is a big bonus.

Now if you guys would start making V shaped ash pans like the bigger Yukons I think you could get a competitive advantage. Nobody gets that design until you use it and it's far superior IMO. Shouldn't add to the cost as it is one less weld/bend.


----------



## brenndatomu

Cloud IT said:


> This is very spot on for me as well. I cut wood with my dad and he likes the longer pieces. Having a short firebox just isn't practical for me.
> 
> In addition I would like to add that I love the fact that Kuuma's are made of *100% stainless steel* and are built in America. I think its the best quality hot air furnace made. I wish they would offer a glass door but respect their desire to maintain maximum efficiency. I'll be placing the furnace in an area more appropriate for a nice looking wood stove so the glass door is a big bonus.
> 
> Now if you guys would start making V shaped ash pans like the bigger Yukons I think you could get a competitive advantage. Nobody gets that design until you use it and it's far superior IMO. Shouldn't add to the cost as it is one less weld/bend.



I don't think so...


----------



## lampmfg

brenndatomu said:


> I don't think so...



American made steel from Louis Industries in Paynesville, MN. We only use external stainless steel bodies on our Kuuma electric sauna stoves.


----------



## Steve NW WI

lampmfg said:


> American made steel from Louis Industries in Paynesville, MN. We only use stainless steel on our Kuuma electric sauna stoves.



Looks like a pretty well equipped fab shop there.


----------



## Cloud IT

brenndatomu said:


> I don't think so...



"All the internal parts are stainless steel and replaceable (ceiling, back, brick holders & straps, front). It's a life time furnace design."

Is that not accurate?


----------



## brenndatomu

lampmfg said:


> American made steel from Louis Industries in Paynesville, MN. We only use stainless steel on our Kuuma electric sauna stoves.





Cloud IT said:


> "All the internal parts are stainless steel and replaceable (ceiling, back, brick holders & straps, front). It's a life time furnace design."
> 
> Is that not accurate?



Yes and no. See above...


----------



## Cloud IT

Frequently Asked Questions Regarding Kuuma "Smokeless" Vapor-Fire High Efficiency Wood Gasification Furnaces & Fantasic Sauna Stoves by Lamppa Manufacturing Inc.

Do an on page search (Ctrl F) for "stainless". It clearly states that all internals are stainless on the 100 and 200. 

Is this not accurate?


----------



## lampmfg

Cloud IT said:


> Frequently Asked Questions Regarding Kuuma "Smokeless" Vapor-Fire High Efficiency Wood Gasification Furnaces & Fantasic Sauna Stoves by Lamppa Manufacturing Inc.
> 
> Do an on page search (Ctrl F) for "stainless". It clearly states that all internals are stainless on the 100 and 200.
> 
> Is this not accurate?



Sorry, I was doing from my phone earlier and didn't read thoroughly and see how it could be misinterpreted. It is accurate on all the internal parts. I was talking about the exterior body. 

Also please try to post any other Kuuma questions in a Kuuma thread. I'm sure Fryebug doesn't appreciate it as I wouldn't as well. I only wanted to make everyone aware of the updated EPA certification regarding the Drolet.


----------



## brenndatomu

Huh, how 'bout that, guess I got schooled!  Well, I guess if it is just the internals, that is a lot less than than 100%, as the post that started all this stated, which I see has been edited now. Still impressive though. Explains some of the cost...

Alright, 'sposin we need to be gettin back on topic here...so when is Menerds gonna get 'em summa dem new Tundras?!


----------



## Gavman

lampmfg said:


> Sorry, I was doing from my phone earlier and didn't read thoroughly and see how it could be misinterpreted. It is accurate on all the internal parts. I was talking about the exterior body.
> 
> Also please try to post any other Kuuma questions in a Kuuma thread. I'm sure Fryebug doesn't appreciate it as I wouldn't as well. I only wanted to make everyone aware of the updated EPA certification regarding the Drolet.



well the drolet is better...


----------



## Fyrebug

Gavman said:


> well the drolet is better...



Thanks for the compliment but.... I'm sure many of you are getting tired of the furnace sniping back and forth.

Let me state for the record Kuuma seem to make an excellent product. Their test shows it burns clean and its efficient. Since I've never seen one myself, I'm am relying on a few users on this forum who rave about theirs. It's also made in the USA by a small company that provides outstanding service. This matters to many folks.

There are some very large MFG's who are still trying to figure out how to make a wood furnace to burn clean. Kudos have to go for a small company that is able to accomplish this much. 

Both Garrett and I are passionate about our products and you will not go wrong with either products. They both have their value proposition and its up to you - the consumer - to decide what is important to you.


----------



## stihly dan

Fyrebug said:


> Thanks for the compliment but.... I'm sure many of you are getting tired of the furnace sniping back and forth.
> 
> Let me state for the record Kuuma seem to make an excellent product. Their test shows it burns clean and its efficient. Since I've never seen one myself, I'm am relying on a few users on this forum who rave about theirs. It's also made in the USA by a small company that provides outstanding service. This matters to many folks.
> 
> There are some very large MFG's who are still trying to figure out how to make a wood furnace to burn clean. Kudos have to go for a small company that is able to accomplish this much.
> 
> Both Garrett and I are passionate about our products and you will not go wrong with either products. They both have their value proposition and its up to you - the consumer - to decide what is important to you.



Quality is quality, Good for you to be real with it. I like your honesty. Stand up guy to me.


----------



## flotek

Is there any information as to which stores 
Actually have the drolet tundra /heatmax in stock to sell???
If I understand correctly the tax credit is good till dec .31 /2013
If the epa certification doesn't "go through" by then does that mean 
The tundra purchaser can't get their credit for this year ??it is my understanding 
The credit is 10% of purchase price up to 300$ that means the most credit 
Incentive I could see on the purchase is 180$ not 300$????i would love to get 
One of these my only gripe is I wish drolet would have ironed out 
The epa thing before introducing the furnace to the public 
Now people are up in the air as to their tax credit status,also 
Some of us " need to know" that the unit in fact has passed certification before we buy it


----------



## Fyrebug

flotek said:


> Is there any information as to which stores Actually have the drolet tundra /heatmax in stock to sell???
> 
> If I understand correctly the tax credit is good till dec .31 /2013



The Heatmax or Tundra are currently available at the following etailers. Menards, Family Farm, Northern Tools and if you live in PA at Heating World near Altoona. Online at Northern Tools and soon Lowes. Other etailers are coming on board with it as well. 

Because it's a relatively new product and we only started shipping a couple of weeks ago distribution is limited this year but likely to change next year. 

The tax credit for furnaces is not tied to EPA but efficiencies. Any wood burning furnaces above 75% efficiencies qualifies. So we're good to go as is. 

Hope this helped.


----------



## flotek

Okay thanks for clearing that up


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> The Heatmax or Tundra are currently available at the following etailers. Menards, Family Farm, Northern Tools and if you live in PA at Heating World near Altoona. Online at Northern Tools and soon Lowes. Other etailers are coming on board with it as well.
> 
> Because it's a relatively new product and we only started shipping a couple of weeks ago distribution is limited this year but likely to change next year.
> 
> The tax credit for furnaces is not tied to EPA but efficiencies. Any wood burning furnaces above 75% efficiencies qualifies. So we're good to go as is.
> 
> Hope this helped.



A local stove shop near me (Preston Trading Post) has just signed an agreement with SBI to get Drolet appliances. They said they will try to get me a Tundra. What are my chances of getting one at the end of the month?


----------



## Racerboy832

Every year I put off buying something and the next year the price jumps up. Do you foresee this on this model. The price seems good since I spent $1100 on a Hotblast from tractor supply and all it does it eat wood. How many are going to make it out the door?


----------



## blades

Ya I got one of those hotblast hogs as well, still tryin to figure out what to do with it. Guess I will stick it on CL and see if I can recoup a couple bucks.


----------



## Fyrebug

Racerboy832 said:


> Every year I put off buying something and the next year the price jumps up. Do you foresee this on this model. The price seems good since I spent $1100 on a Hotblast from tractor supply and all it does it eat wood. How many are going to make it out the door?


 We've had price increase from year to year but they dont tend to be across the board on all units. Typically it's based on cost of raw material fluctuation etc.. and it's fairly small.

Your biggest pocket saving hit this year is the tax rebate (up to $300). But it ends in December.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> A local stove shop near me (Preston Trading Post) has just signed an agreement with SBI to get Drolet appliances. They said they will try to get me a Tundra. What are my chances of getting one at the end of the month?



Better ask your store what kind of delivery date he got from his rep. His answer would be more accurate than mine.


----------



## PLAYINWOOD

Racerboy832 said:


> Every year I put off buying something and the next year the price jumps up. Do you foresee this on this model. The price seems good since I spent $1100 on a Hotblast from tractor supply and all it does it eat wood. How many are going to make it out the door?




My friend also, when is it available north of Toronto?


----------



## Fyrebug

PLAYINWOOD said:


> My friend also, when is it available north of Toronto?



Should be available at TSC (Ontario) and Home Hardware now.


----------



## Vermonster

That's a good looking and efficient furnace. If only my house was built with outside access to the basement. It would also be difficult to retro my existing oil furnace w/baseboard hot water to a forced air system. 
It sure would be nice to keep all the wood mess in the basement rather than having it all over the house from my Jotul 602N and Vermont Castings fireplace insert. Love heating with wood, just not fond of the mess it creates.


----------



## arrow

Vermonster said:


> That's a good looking and efficient furnace. If only my house was built with outside access to the basement. It would also be difficult to retro my existing oil furnace w/baseboard hot water to a forced air system.
> It sure would be nice to keep all the wood mess in the basement rather than having it all over the house from my Jotul 602N and Vermont Castings fireplace insert. Love heating with wood, just not fond of the mess it creates.



Well, one part of your problem is easily remedied: You would leave your hydronics totally alone and simply add two runs of ducting from the furnace to either side of the house. I have the same heating system as you and that's what I'm doing. As far as cellar wood access, you could convert one of your cellar windows to some type of "wood chute".


----------



## goatguy

Looks like Menards is listing it now on their website...

http://www.menards.com/main/heating...ce-w-filter-kit-included/p-2123037-c-6884.htm

At $1999, they are the most expensive dealer yet.

They do state that "filter kit is included" Does that mean it is NOT included at Family Farm, Northern Tools, or Lowes?


----------



## goatguy

goatguy said:


> Looks like Menards is listing it now on their website...
> 
> Drolet Tundra EPA wood furnace w/filter kit included at Menards
> 
> At $1999, they are the most expensive dealer yet.
> 
> They do state that "filter kit is included" Does that mean it is NOT included at Family Farm, Northern Tools, or Lowes?





Scratch that, looks like they changed thier website pricing, it is at $1799 now


----------



## mopar969

Any news as to when the drolet will be on lowes.com? I see that lowes in canada has it already.


----------



## alleyyooper

After reading all the pages here and the many repete questions and horse hooy Ive made up my mind with out even touching a unit.
*The ash removal has made up my mind not to buy this unit*. I have put up with a add on furnace for 28 years that had slits you poked the ash thru to get to the pan. It was such a time comsuming job not to mention a royal pain I just let the fire die down and used a old round shovel to take the ashes out the same way the wood went in. Then use a little square ash shovel I modified to finish it up. 
I'll take the less efficent furnace with a shaker grate to replace what I have.

 Al


----------



## Fyrebug

alleyyooper said:


> After reading all the pages here and the many repete questions and horse hooy Ive made up my mind with out even touching a unit.
> *The ash removal has made up my mind not to buy this unit*. I have put up with a add on furnace for 28 years that had slits you poked the ash thru to get to the pan. It was such a time comsuming job not to mention a royal pain I just let the fire die down and used a old round shovel to take the ashes out the same way the wood went in. Then use a little square ash shovel I modified to finish it up.
> I'll take the less efficent furnace with a shaker grate to replace what I have.
> 
> Al


Assuming the above is true, you are willing willing to cut, split, cord, cure, load and sweep twice as much to save time with the ashes?

All you have to do is ask those in this forum who use a Caddy or Kuuma and they will tell you what their experiences with ashes vs other benefits.


----------



## stihly dan

Yup. On my Kuuma the ash easily falls thru the grate, keeping the coals above. It comes with a perfect rake, pull everything forward, 2 sweeps side to side and reload. !0 seconds maybe. Ash pan can be dumped anytime.


----------



## alleyyooper

In the first place how can one say *I'll have to cut, split and sweep twice as much wood*? Ya'll have no idea how good my old worn out wood furnace is/was. I never found a tag to even now what brand it is. As for sweeping that is one reason I am getting a shaker grate stove of some type so the ashes go into a pan and not on the furnace room floor nor does all that dust go all over tha basement and in time thru out the house.
My brothers neighbour has a shaker grate furnace and that room it is in stays as clean as the kitchen and I've been there when he is shakeing down the ashes.

 Al


----------



## Fyrebug

alleyyooper said:


> In the first place how can one say *I'll have to cut, split and sweep twice as much wood*? Ya'll have no idea how good my old worn out wood furnace is/was. I never found a tag to even now what brand it is. As for sweeping that is one reason I am getting a shaker grate stove of some type so the ashes go into a pan and not on the furnace room floor nor does all that dust go all over tha basement and in time thru out the house.
> My brothers neighbour has a shaker grate furnace and that room it is in stays as clean as the kitchen and I've been there when he is shakeing down the ashes.
> 
> Al



Well, if this is important to you... go with what works.

Conventional wood furnaces have been tested at 40% - 50% efficiencies. So if you get a furnace at 80% efficiencies you 'theoretically' cut your consumption in half.

Real life users have told us time and again they have cut down their wood usage by a third minimum and many by half. So as an educated consumer it is always better to seek advice from other users (no me... I'm in sales :biggrin such as Stihly Dan who posted above.


----------



## Fyrebug

alleyyooper said:


> *The ash removal has made up my mind not to buy this unit*.I'll take the less efficent furnace with a shaker grate to replace what I have.Al



So I just thought I would post a few pics to show how to empty the ashes on our furnace. Notice the furnace comes with a tool to hook the ash plug and allow to rake the ashes into the large ash pan. 

View attachment 314943

View attachment 314944

View attachment 314945


----------



## laynes69

I do miss the shaker grates I had with the old furnace, but with that said, I wouldn't go back. When I wake up, there's always coals in back of the firebox and ash up front. Either I remove the plug and rake the ash into the ashpan, or just remove a few scoops of ash.


----------



## arrow

I always found it faster to shovel them out. Northern tool makes an ash removal shovel that looks interesting. Five seconds and you're done, using this tool.


----------



## brenndatomu

I have the best of both worlds, I covered about half of my grates with fire bricks. The bricked area holds coals well, a couple swipes of the shovel or poker and the ashes disappear through the grate area! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## A.S.Woodchucker

*$1599*

Family farm and hame has them in their ad for $1599 on sale!


----------



## Cloud IT

alleyyooper said:


> In the first place how can one say *I'll have to cut, split and sweep twice as much wood*? Ya'll have no idea how good my old worn out wood furnace is/was. I never found a tag to even now what brand it is. As for sweeping that is one reason I am getting a shaker grate stove of some type so the ashes go into a pan and not on the furnace room floor nor does all that dust go all over tha basement and in time thru out the house.
> My brothers neighbour has a shaker grate furnace and that room it is in stays as clean as the kitchen and I've been there when he is shakeing down the ashes.
> 
> Al



I totally get where you are coming from. Shaker grates are much easier to remove ashes than any ultra efficient design that uses ceramic on the bottom of the fire box.

Maybe someday there may be a combination grate that gives us the best of both worlds. Until then I'm going to have to go with what gives me the most efficient burn. Maybe its not 50% less wood but even if it's only 10% less then that is 10% less felling, bucking, loading, gas, unloading, splitting, stacking, storing, hauling, stacking, loading, and creosote.....makes a few min of raking ashes totally worth it to me.

Again, I totally get your thought process and think you should get what is best for you. (check out yukon's with the shaker grate. Excellent furnaces) My dad thinks exactly the same way and it's not a wrong way of thinking by any means. My only reason for posting this is to encourage the manufacturers to push for efficiency because in my opinion, it's a far more important factor.

Now if Lowes would only get them in stock I could go buy one. It's going to be pretty cold tonight.


----------



## Fyrebug

arrow said:


> I always found it faster to shovel them out. Northern tool makes an ash removal shovel that looks interesting. Five seconds and you're done, using this tool.



It comes standard with 3 tools including an ash shovel


----------



## arrow

Fyrebug said:


> It comes standard with 3 tools including an ash shovel



This is a self contained ash gatherer. No dust but $129. Hoping I don't have to empty the ashes from the Tundra but once every two or three weeks as I did on my other epa stove.


----------



## goatguy

So who is going to be first to get one of these, take some pictures and write up a review?


----------



## flotek

I wonder when lowes will stock these 
Paying 200 shipping is a bit much and 
The menards doesn't stock them and its 100 miles away 
You guys need to start getting them out in stores


----------



## brenndatomu

goatguy said:


> So who is going to be first to get one of these, take some pictures and write up a review?



Yeah, I'd think someone would have one of these babys blowing smoke by now...


----------



## TruckerTeacher

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah, I'd think someone would have one of these babys blowing smoke by now...




got Tundra on order thru menards , shipped free to store ,went that route instead of $480 to ship it to my house. chimney guy was out today to fix crown ,recap and seal it, that will keep it from leaking in basement at the base. they said 2 -3 weeks to arrive , so will have it ready to install when it gets here. will post some pics after we gets it going.


----------



## goatguy

I just got one myself as well, a HeatMax from Family Farm and Home. Got it out the door with aftertax for $1694. I was debating between that and the Max Caddy, but my local dealer wanted >$4700 for the max, so.. that made all the difference.

I got a 2100sq ft home, with a 1500 sqft basement (6" wall with full fiberglass plu 1" styrofoam around the whole house, insualted basement, LOTS of windows, but at least they are all newer thermopaned...). I'm hoping that the Heatmax will be able to handle it... but even if it doesn't, I suppose it'll knock a bit of the bite out of the electric bill. 

The Heatmax will be replacing a 30 year old RightWay 73 in the basement. I'm looking forward to the efficiency difference and having the window. Can't wait to get a chacne to change it out and get it fired up. 

Hoping for the best!


----------



## flotek

I'll be ordering one here in another month I'm watching to see if any somewhat local stores will carry them


----------



## ajr

How about the deal for AS subscribers

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## brenndatomu

Fyrebug said:


> Thanks. I think we avoid a lot of headaches by asking the users first rather than 'assuming'.
> 
> Thanks for your input. I'm working hard to maybe have the AS users some special promo this fall. Will keep you up to date later.



Any luck on gettin that promo Fyrebug?


----------



## Fyrebug

brenndatomu said:


> Any luck on gettin that promo Fyrebug?



Hi guys, with the site going up & down I have not been able to keep track of thing. If you are seriously going to get one, PM me and I'll provide you with some goodies.


----------



## Cloud IT

I've sent you two messages but they disappear right after. I think it's issues with the forums here. Are you under the same name on hearth dot com? I sent you a message over there.

I'm ready to buy and looking for a deal.

Corey


----------



## brenndatomu

Cloud IT said:


> I've sent you two messages but they disappear right after. I think it's issues with the forums here. Are you under the same name on hearth dot com? I sent you a message over there.
> 
> I'm ready to buy and looking for a deal.
> 
> Corey


Yup, he is/does...although...I don't recall seein him hanging out (at least posting) much over there lately.


----------



## goatguy

With the site going on and off, I haven't had a chance to comment on the HeatMax that I have, I've started a bit of a discussion over at Hearth, and I'll add my first post overe here, just so the same information will be availabe here.

Copy & pasted:


Hey All!

Figured I'd report in on that new furnace from Drolet....

First, how about some background, I live in a 2200 sqft 1.5 story house, with a 1500 sqft basement (3700sqft total). The House was built in '78 and was built as efficiently as they were able at the time, 6" walls with full fiberglass, with 1" styrofoam on the outside before the siding, the basement is also fully insulated, There are a lot of windows (8 are considered "picture" windows byu the insurance comapny) however, most are newer thermopanes at least.

The house has electric baseboard for the primary heat, and the previous owner had a RiteWay 73 furnace in teh basement with one giant duct straight to the kitchen which is in the middle of the first floor. I burned with that riteway for 2 years. It heated the house... but it took a LOT of wood, with a 7.3 cubicfoot firebox, that it could burn through in 4-5 hrs... you can only imagine how old that go.

So this year I decided to upgrade, I searched around, Kuuma, PSG, Blaze King (I used to have a princess insert in my last house and was happy with it), Boiler system, The Napoleon HMF furnaces, etc. I eventually decided on the Drolet Tundra #1 because of the price (I got it for $1599 on sale last week at Family Home and Farm), and 2# because of the raving reviews of the PSG Caddy.

I am not entirely sure if the stove has the grunt to heat the whole house when it starts getting real cold... but since the price for something larger, like the Kuuma (>$4k) and the MaxCaddy (quoted by my "local" dealer at $4700), I decided to go for the MUCH cheaper tundra.

Took me all weekend, but I managed to get the old stove out, and the new stove in and hooked up, I wasn't sure if it would draft that well, (the manual says no more than 2 90° turns before the chimney and I have 2 plus another 45°. But it sure looks pretty in place.

I fired it last night just for the fun of it, I completely smoked up the house due to the curing paint, but that's expected. The stove started easily enough and teh chimney drafted just great ( even with all the bends, it's still a 30' interior chimney, so it's got some heavy pull when it's hot).

I't's going to take some getting used to, as the damper system is either fully on or fully off, I've never run a stove like that before. But once it was up to temp, I shut off the primary damper and the secondaries flared right up and the heat poured out. The other great thing is when I woke up this morninger and checked (12 hr's after startign it) there was plenty of coals to restart a new fir, no heat.. but LOTS of coals, that is something my RiteWay would never do.

So far the negatives I have found...
-I am not a big fan of the wingnuts closures for the heat exchanger and ash drawer. They look cheap and tacky and will probably be a pain to use and have a good potential for losing the wingnuts by dropping them. I understand it was a cost saving measure to get the unit to the 1599... but I'd have paid more to get nice hinged doors with over-center handle locks.
-The on/off switch for the primary air is on the back of the stove, it is very inconvenient to hit, especially when the unit is hot. I'll probably eventually remoting wire the switch to a better place.
-The blower is pretty nice and pretty quiet, but I'm not sure it'll have the grunt to push air all the way to the second floor when I get around to ducting the house (to be fair, I haven't changed the setting from the "medium-low" default setting and it could potentially push much more when switched to high, we'll see)

Anyhow, that's I got for now, I hope it works out, so far I really like it and I think it was a fantastic value at the price point. Especially if I can get the tax credit at the endo f the year.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance


----------



## Cloud IT

Fyrebug, could you please explain what the exact differences are between the DF01000 and DF02000? Both are available in the US now and I'm not able to get a straight answer from anyone I've talked to about the differences.

TIA


----------



## Fyrebug

Cloud IT said:


> Fyrebug, could you please explain what the exact differences are between the DF01000 and DF02000? Both are available in the US now and I'm not able to get a straight answer from anyone I've talked to about the differences.
> 
> TIA



Aside from some cosmetics they are identical. The purpose of having two different models of the same unit is to allow our retailers the ability to compete. This is quite common with any appliances. Basically if you are a small retailer and carry the Heatmax you dont really want to compete against Lowe's and lose margins.

It's a common strategy for most products nowadays.


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## flotek

Got a test fire in my heatmax.. Just in my garage with a jerry rigged flue pipe to get the stink and sweat out of it before the real install ..so far I'm impressed . Quality construction good design easy to use. .I broke down a few pieces of the packaging crate and tossed a small aspen slab on top of it ( load would fit in a mailbox ) and it burned for better part of 4 hours that's with the air intake open too . I'm thinking This unit should offer some great burn times loaded up with red oak.there will definitely be a wood savings with the drolet over my englander 28-3500


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## flotek

I posted some quick short videos on YouTube under drolet heatmax


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## Fyrebug

flotek said:


> I posted some quick short videos on YouTube under drolet heatmax


Good secondary combustion there.

It'd be nice to see a video when the fire's raging then when the damper is down.


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## Cloud IT




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## zogger

That burns pretty!

I'd like to get a stove with a visible flame, but right now too expensive when the old one is working fine.


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## flotek




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## flotek

I added some more videos on YouTube


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## Fyrebug

Here, I posted the link here for you... Nice Secondaries BTW


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## flotek

Here's my mini review after about a week of burning ..I'm really Lovin this furnace so far .running this thing is so different than my englander in every way . I basically had to forget everything I knew about burning in a large wood burner .its going to take some getting used to .the drolet is about the closest thing you can get to a natural gas furnace just set it on your thermostat and forget it .i have not really filled it up much and getting clean burn times easily over 10 hours and plenty of coals after 14 hrs .the wood usage is pretty amazing itlike the fire just never goes out on the thing .i throw some splits in it set the digital wall thermostat upstairs at 68 degrees and go to work ten hours later it's still right at 68 degrees and a bed of hot glowing coals .the flue isn't even that hot kind of keeps all the heat in the unit itself .Stays within a few degrees of my t stat setting no wild temperature swings or going downstairs to make air adjustments or add more wood .it uses far less firewood than my englander at this rate maybe even truly half. ..Now that all being said it's still early in the season so it hasn't gotten brutal cold but so far so good and I'd say it was worth the time and trouble to switch


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## spadjen

Just got this stove on sunday and finished the install on monday. Decided on this for the clean bern and also since i have a drolet ht2000 on the main floor. Great company and was very happy with that stove. But people with sinus problems, cold floor, mess in house, and cold bathroom i decided to try this. It Is a different experience. Damper fully open or closed takes some getting used to. Heat set on thermostat stays almost with in a 2-4 degres of where its set. Loading is easy with coals. Raise your thermostat to open damper and throw wood in. Thats it....no leaving door open or having to go back and turn it down. I decided to load the stove all the way to see what that was like. It was 62 in the house and 20 outside. brought a 1600 sq foot house up to 72 in little less then an hour. Too much wood....it shut the damper down almost rest of the night. I was left with the biggest load of red coals after 7 hours. but loading it bout half or little more i have been getting clean burn with almost no ash. I was going to get a remote thermostat with an alarm since i am not used to wood stoves in the basement. I dont see the need for it. Stack temp never gets that hot even with a raging fire in the box. Its been less then a week and so far i think its great. Only concern is how much wood am i going to use? Time will tell. I am coming from a wood stove on the main floor so i only used 2.5 to 3 cord. I expect to use a little more then that. But i have no problem with that to have even heat, warm floors, and heat in the back of the house. 

few more things to do for the install. Hooking up a cold air return in the house with filter. Should make it more efficient to remove cold air from the house and air running over the jacket will not be as cold. also need to measure static pressure to make sure blower is running at the right speed. I dont get alot of air flow out of the vents. But so far it has not been an issue heating the house. I do get some heat loss in the duct work in the back of the house. not sure if they need to be insulated or fan speed needs to be changed. they have the seams taped and running in the basement that is somewhat warm from the stove. I get about 140-150 from the floor vents in the front and about 115-125 from the back of the house.

I will do some movies on the install and operation at some point soon. nice stove...heavy and bulky. get some moving straps and 4-5 guys. had no problems other then my broken toe. fyi...do not set it on your toe or any other part of your body. that is not in te directions .


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## flotek

For my setup I use the lowest fan speed setting. . The high setting was cooling the heat off the furnace unit too much and dropping the air temp enough to shut off the blower too early the low setting was just right pressure and not overly loud in my case


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## spadjen

I have not tried using the lowest setting yet. I have been on med high and high. It does not cool it to the point of shutting the blower off. I prob load more wood then you and run the box hotter. The only thing i have noticed is that when the damper is open and the blower is on it chews through the wood pretty fast. Then when it shuts down it goes it to a nice steady low burn. So maybe having the fan too high would cause it to eat more wood? I am concerned with the amount of wood being used when its wide open. I was thinking of running the fire box full of wood and then shutting the damper down. When i do this the blower goes on and off on its own ( not alot) but the wood seems to last longer. Slow and steady wins the race?

We need to run some sort self help support group for the heat max.  Everyone share there techniques, how much wood they use, how big there house is, outside temp, and how many floor vents?


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## spadjen

anyone have yellow discharge coming from the stove pipe connector ( not you ) at the back of the stove? Only had it fired up for about 4 days so not sure whats going on here. Stove pipe has been running low temps 200-375. cant imagine cleaning the chimney weekly


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## flotek

I get that too where the single wall connects at the joint in the back .its from using wood that's less than seasoned . Its setup and angled in such a way that resulting Moisture can collect there my excuse is I was busy working on my muscle car and got a late start getting my wood split and stored away in time . This condition won't happen if your wood is well seasoned IMHO also I wouldn't set the t stay too high on a cold house or it will eat wood running wide open trying to incrementally get to the T stat setting I'd do it in stages till it raised it high enough you don't want your air flap wide open for too long


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## laynes69

Like Flotek is saying, you shouldn't be seeing anything like that. Unseasoned wood or burning at too low of temps will cause it. It takes some time to get the furnace up to operating temps before closing the damper. I know our wood now has been seasoning for 3 years, and we don't have that issue.


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## spadjen

wish i could say i was working on a muscle car but lately been working on a pos dodge neon.  Anyway, getting to the end of my wood supply that has been stacked for 2.5-3 years. I guess it may not be fully seasoned since the area its stacked in is in shade most of the day. but it is off the ground with a roof over it. I will keep an eye on it. maybe its something that was just a fluke or heavy rain coming down the chimney ?

I will try heating the house in stages. Pretty much along the lines i was thinking of trying next. Fill the fire box, shut the damper down, then let the fan kick on and off as it gets over 160.


and what the .......... My 3rd post and I get a Dumb ? 

its all good.


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## flotek

This furnace appears to be pickey about moisture in the wood . It will definitely require a bit of a learning curve. .but there's a big benefit compared to a traditional campfire in a box with some sheet metal and a blower. I like how it will idle for hours on end. ..then ramp up and the blower comes in the second I bump up the thermostat setting .


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## spadjen

I plan on keeping a good supply of wood in basement so that may help.

Yeah...other then learning the stove to reduce wood usage I love the stove. Deff works well and using a tstat is a nice touch. I like how adding wood is as easy as throwing some in and putting the tstat 1 or 2 degrees higher. Almost set and forget. 

Planning on hooking up cold air supply to the upstairs. Hoping that will help heat more efficient. Did u hook up air supply to yours?


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## brenndatomu

flotek said:


> This furnace appears to be pickey about moisture in the wood . It will definitely require a bit of a learning curve. .but there's a big benefit compared to a traditional campfire in a box with some sheet metal and a blower. I like how it will idle for hours on end. ..then ramp up and the blower comes in the second I bump up the thermostat setting .


Yup, modern EPA type stoves definitely do require dry wood to maintain secondary combustion, and that is where the efficiency comes in. Without secondary combustion, "tube" type stoves will barely heat your doghouse! Dry wood makes 'em rock!


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## flotek

Nope I have not I may in the future though ..its 19 outside and mid 70"s in my 2000 sq ft house so I can't complain 
The burn times are nice


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## laynes69

I'm glad to hear your liking the new furnace. Our wood wasn't up to par the first year, so I just ran the furnace with a little extra air. It would take a half hour or more to get things up to operating temps, where now it's 10-15 minutes with better wood. There's definitely a learning curve, but it's worth it!


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## spadjen

about how much wood are you going through a year for your sq foot? How full do you load your stove and how long of a burn do you get? I think getting use to this furnace would be alot easier for those that had a stove in the basement. I had an HT 2000 (big stove) in the living room. Was able to baby sit it. Was also able to turn it way down due to the stove being so big and the radiant heat. I no doubt will be using more wood this year. as far as wood usage and efficiency i see this furnace to be in the middle of the stove in the living room and stove in the basement. Most of us upgrading to the heatmax will see your wood usually go down....I will see it go up. But that is the trade off for being warm everywhere with a warm floor. I may be expecting too much at times? so just wanted to see how full you guys load yours, how many times a day for what temps and sq foot. kinda to get an average. I am thinking i will be moving from 2.5- 3 cord a year to somewhere around 4-5?


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## flotek

There's a lot of variables most people heating a house exclusively with a wood furnace will use around 6 cords maybe 7 if you have a large home in a cold climate this epa stove should knock that down 2-3 cords less depending on a lot of variables . Laynes would be the guy to ask he's had his caddy for several years now . One thing about this epa furnace is that it distributes the heat over a longer period and doesn't get blazing hot like a traditional furnace with a huge firebox can.. as a result if you are used to 80 ish in dead of winter you may not feel the same comfort level with this unit that maintains 70 in the house instead,in all fairness the degree that your wood is seasoned probably plays a big part in that too


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## laynes69

We use between 5-6.5 cord a year, but we have a 160+ year old 2500 sqft Victorian with 10' ceilings and over 40 windows. The old furnace would use between 8-10+ cord a year plus 200 gallons of propane. We don't load full loads every time, because someone is always home. When temps drop into the teens and below then we will move towards full loads. I know we could knock a cord or more off our usage, but my wife keeps the house at 75 most of the winter.


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## spadjen

Has anyone Tried loading there wood side to side? Went to do some more work on sealing up the basement. Major air infiltration so not sure if that would be a huge problem in the house but i am sure it does not help. Was think of insulating the ducts but not sure if that would help with the long duct runs and the lower temp i am getting out the registers in the back of the house. When looking around i things i noticed the back 8" round was quite a bit colder then the front. This was when a pretty good fire was going with the damper open. I would expect it to be colder being in the back but this seemed to be alot colder. is this normal or is the stove just not up to temp?


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## flotek

My wife is same way she would rather me cut an extra cord so she could be at 75 all day instead of room temperature lol easy for her to say .. She doesn't cut split or stack it . Yes Mine runs cooler in back too I think because that where the fan is blowing probably . It's almost impossible to overstate " good seasoned wood makes all the difference" epa designs get their efficiency by secondary combustion you won't have it if the temperature is lacking in the firebox .. If it has to boil any water out of your wood it will be way down in temperature to light off the gases ..at least this is my understanding of why it requires premo dry wood. If the wood is only half seasoned it probably won't do any better than a old hotblast tractor supply special for efficiency


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> My wife is same way she would rather me cut an extra cord so she could be at 75 all day instead of room temperature lol easy for her to say .. She doesn't cut split or stack it . Yes Mine runs cooler in back too I think because that where the fan is blowing probably . It's almost impossible to overstate " good seasoned wood makes all the difference" epa designs get their efficiency by secondary combustion you won't have it if the temperature is lacking in the firebox .. If it has to boil any water out of your wood it will be way down in temperature to light off the gases ..at least this is my understanding of why it requires premo dry wood. If the wood is only half seasoned it probably won't do any better than a old hotblast tractor supply special for efficiency



This...

If you guys aren't using dry wood you are missing out on what the furnace can do. Once the firebox is hot and the thermostat stops calling for heat, the damper will close and will cause a low oxygen burn to start. Any wood you add won't be burned as normal. Instead the wood will give off gases as it is baked and those gasses will ignite at a very high temperature. Once those gasses are burned off you will be left with solid charcoal that will continue to give off heat for hours and hours on end.

The overnight burns are best to be added at this point without getting the coals too fired up. That way when the temp drops after you go to bed the damper will open up and in getting that 1 degree back will start the chain reaction all over again.

I've had some major issues that the manufacturer is hopefully going to address and I will be giving you all an update when everything is said and done. However, this furnace is beyond impressive and I've been heating my home on the worst stuff I could find out of 10+ cords and it's been amazing. My dad said the amount of wood I brought into my basement would last him less than 2 days and it lasted me over a week. I'm heating 3800 sq. ft. of well insulated and airtight home.

If you aren't using dry wood then you aren't going to get the secondary combustion. When my secondary combustion is going it doesn't even burn the wood per say and I can't hold my hand 12" in front of the glass door for more than a few seconds. I like to describe it as "nuking" the wood.

Also, I wanted to point out that I'm getting the best result using much smaller wood. Forget what you knew about throwing in that big "overnight" log. It will have too much moisture and will prevent secondary combustion. To compensate the damper will need to be open more and your wood will burn out faster. If you aren't getting long burns, try using very small splits and just pack it it. I've gotten insane burn times using this method.


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## spadjen

What kind of issues are you having with your stove? Be intresting to see how they respond. I have had good support from drolet


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## laynes69

Airsealing our attic alone, cut down the heating demand by 30%. I plugged almost 12 sqft of voids that were channeling hot air out the attic. This not only increased comfort, but it made the home much easier to heat and lowered wood usage. Any draft whether large or small that's stopped will make a big difference. Start in the attic and then work your way down to the basement. Basically it's like having a couple windows open all winter long.


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## flotek

I have old 70"s crest line double pane windows . I hate them they get thick frost on them and a high wind is felt near them .come spring I'm getting all new modern tight vinyl ones I'm also considering blowing in additional insulation mine has whatever the thin standard was for 1978 . It can't be more than 3 inch blanket between the boards
Of my attic


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## laynes69

flotek said:


> I have old 70"s crest line double pane windows . I hate them they get thick frost on them and a high wind is felt near them .come spring I'm getting all new modern tight vinyl ones I'm also considering blowing in additional insulation mine has whatever the thin standard was for 1978 . It can't be more than 3 inch blanket between the boards
> Of my attic



We had about 3" of cellulose in our attic. After I went through and sealed every crack and hole I could fine, the next year we blew in around 10-12" more on top of the 3. That winter, the upstairs stayed about 10 degrees warmer. Now in the summertime, the upstairs stays cooler than downstairs. Since insulating, it settled a few inches, so I'm going to blow in more probably this summer. We spent about 500.00, which has saved us much more than that. We just got done putting a 2 story addition on our home, which has made things tighter, but currently I have an uninsulated, drafty room that needs attention. It's never-ending, but all effort in the end, is well worth it.


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## stihly dan

spadjen said:


> Has anyone Tried loading there wood side to side? Went to do some more work on sealing up the basement. Major air infiltration so not sure if that would be a huge problem in the house but i am sure it does not help. Was think of insulating the ducts but not sure if that would help with the long duct runs and the lower temp i am getting out the registers in the back of the house. When looking around i things i noticed the back 8" round was quite a bit colder then the front. This was when a pretty good fire was going with the damper open. I would expect it to be colder being in the back but this seemed to be alot colder. is this normal or is the stove just not up to temp?


 
Balancing dampers.


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## flotek

Just came home from church and Here's what I have left today at 12:54 I loaded yesterday evening at 9:45 . That's 15 hours and. 9 minutest the blower has since quit ( maybe an hour ago) but the furnace is still warm to the touch..that's double the burn time of my old furnace and this new one even has a smaller firebox
..Seeing is believing


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## spadjen

What was the temp outside? I just finished hooking up the cold air suply upstairs to the house. Hard to tell how much a diffrence it makes since it went from 5 to 30 degrees at night. But so far it seems to heat the house faster and longer. Duct temp increased from 145 to 160. And flue temp increased due to warmer air running over the jacket. 


I still would like to know what issues cloud it had with his. I asked on here and his youtube but never answered .


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## flotek

For my burn it was around 20 through the night then gradually increased in the morning to around 30 as sun came out


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## Mlaw22

I have a cape cod around 1800 sqft. Full unfinished basement. Built it myself, well insulated and tight. I've had my tundra hooked up for three weeks now. My chimney is around 24 ft tall. Double wall insulated stainless outside, double wall black inside with two 90s in basement and one 90 outside. I'm struggling to get long burn times. I get my fire ripping and close my damper. I have the flame up high and it's hotter than heck in front of the stove. 8 hour day low 30s outside and I loose about 6 to 7 degrees inside and it's a pile of coals when I get home. Do I need a barometric draft regulator? The chimney barely ever gets hot. I have plenty of make up air. Is there a way to tie in the make up air? I use to have a mindless hotblast wood eating machine. I'd have that chimney so hot you couldn't go near it. And the blower ran constantly. I'm struggles with this one. Plus I have to assist the damper door when I flip the switch. They said they'd have a solution this week for me. I love it and have high hopes, just feel I don't understand it yet. My wood has been seasoned one to two years. I have messed with fan speeds but low doesn't blow it enough and high seems to cool it off to fast. Do I need to geek it up and get into manometers and technical aspects of it? Or is there something I'm missing ? Even though I can't get the heat right I wouldn't go back to that hotblast if you paid me. No smoke in house and I've emptied the ashes only once without dumping a tray and getting dust all over.


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## brenndatomu

-Hmmm, unfinished basement, are you hooked up to duct work to push the heat to the living space? how many ducts? size?

-(3) 90s on your chimney really reduces draft, any chance to change the inside 90s to a series of 45s? Each 90 knocks the draft down equal to taking 3-4 ft off the chimney height, and most modern "EPA" type burners need a minimum of 15 ft. of height, and that is with a straight up chimney. This furnace is gonna need a stronger draft to work right than the Hotblast did.

-You said you have a tight house _and_ plenty of make up air? I assume you have a outside air kit?

-Who is the "they" that will have a solution for you?

-Your wood was cut, split, stacked for 1-2 years? What kind of wood? Oak will need at a _minimum_ of 2 years after CSS. Honestly, this really sounds like wet wood, well, not wet, just not dry _enough_. Try some ECO bricks in 'er, or mix in some kiln dried lumber with your firewood load, see if it makes any difference.

-It certainly wouldn't hurt to "geek" out with a manometer, get some hard numbers to work with, no more _ass-u-me ing_. FYI, I have bought (2) Dwyer Mark II manometers on fleabay for under $20 delivered to my door.


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## laynes69

Your not going to feel the heat the hotblast put out. That's because the hotblast had a firebox almost double the size. The reason why the flue was hot on the old furnace, it was very Inefficient. Now I know you said you built your house and it's tight and well insulated, but to loose 6 to 7 degrees when it's only in the low 30's after burning the furnace during the day, tells me it's not as tight as you think. We have a different furnace, but the same firebox as the tundra. We have a 2500 sqft home plus basement, that's over 150 years old and when it dropped to 18 during the night, I loaded the furnace (same firebox) at 10pm, set the thermostat for 72 and 9.5 hours later woke to a 69 degree house. Your losing quite a bit of heat, did you have a blower door test done on the home? 

Anyhow, yes you need a manometer to measure draft. With that many elbows though, It would reduce draft quite a bit. A manometer will take out the guess work.


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## Mlaw22

The wood I have is maple ash mixed cut, split and stacked. But it's seen alittle rain this last fall and summer do to so some lazy deeds on my part. I did put a few cords In the base basement with dehumidifier in it and it's seems to be dry as a bone. I'll check the moisture content tmr. It doesn't sizzle. 

I do have it hooked up to my cold air return. Two eight inch in off the cold air and two eight inch tied into the main furnace. Story 1/2 with ten ducts. My outside air intake is a 3 1/2 in duct coming into the same room. Plus I have my basement window next to it which I've tried leaving open to see if that helps. What is an outside air kit? Does it hook directly to the stove? 

I kinda wanna geek out. I've been stalking this forum for months, which led me to buy this stove. I'll check eBay. Thanks for that. 

I called drolet about the draft door. The guy said I was the second person that day to call. They are working on a solution. Seemed nice enough. I'll update.

Would changing my chimney to 45s really help? Or could I just put on a baro draft reg? It would push my stove quite a bit further in which I don't won't but could live with if needed.

I didn't have a blower door test done but I take pride in building homes. I used very efficient windows, doors, sealed all nooks, cranys and insulated well. Only built it about 7 years ago. Don't think that's the problem. 
Maybe I need look at wood. Seems to be most of the talk about epas. 

Plus I want to thank all of you for your posts and inputs. You guys frigin rock.


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## zogger

Any flow likes gradual over abrupt, so ya, 45s over 90s will help right off the bat.


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## brenndatomu

Changing to 45s will help _a lot_ to give you a _stronger_ draft, and like I said, if you figure that each 90 is equal to losing 3-4' of chimney height, (15 being minimum) you potentially have a bare minimum chimney. Not saying that for sure, you need a draft speed reading (manometer) to know for sure.
Now, a baro will help _lower_ your draft readings (but only to your preset reading) installing one certainly won't hurt (good time to install one when you change to 45s) 
Baros are nice to have just for the fact that they keep the draft consistent all the time (during high winds, etc.)
Sounds like you have the bases covered for the most part, I'm bettin you have weak draft.
One other thought, did you ever get any temp readings? Internal stove pipe temp (probe type thermo) or temp on the firebox? This being a new model, I can't tell you where those #s should be or the best "spot" to get them, but I do know that people with free standing stoves like to run 5-6, even as high as 700* stove top temps for them to work the best. Maybe some of your fellow Tundra owners here on AS could shoot some #s off theirs for ya? Guys (gals)?


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## lampmfg

90's are a No No...


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## Mlaw22

Uhg. I knew better. At the beginning I was going to do 45s but I got to eager beaver and wanted to get her up and running. I'll pick up some 45s today. Found a dweyer new on amazon for 25 bucks free ship. The only thing I don't have is the draft reg . I have double wall and the only one in town I can buy is single wall. Can I put a single wall baro in double wall pipe?


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## laynes69

I have 2-90's inside and a 90 in the chimney and I have too much draft. A draft too high, and it will send heat up the flue and lower burntimes. Our chimney is 32' feet tall, and we need a baro to lower the draft. What problems are you having with the damper? Also if you wait to close the damper after too long, it will lower the burntimes too. Verify draft before going to a barometric damper.


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## Mlaw22

It won't open without me giving it alittle nudge. Seems to be a pivot point the puller just can't get over. Think I can bend some things around but thought I'd wait for the response from drolet first. So you think I might be okay with 90s? I notice the caddy has an air intake hook up. Do you have that hooked up? Putting 45s is gonna blow!


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## laynes69

No intake here, my basement has more than enough make up air, it's stone walls with old beams. While the 90's aren't ideal, it doesn't mean it won't work. It's just more to overcome for draft. If your draft measures out, And there's no smoke spillage, personally I wouldn't worry about it. Our chimney is a little taller, but like I say, it drafts hard without the baro.


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## flotek

One thing to consider is the fixed thermo button thermostat fan switch ( it doesn't use a traditional adjustable thermodisk ) drolet has it so the furnace has to be super hot then it shuts off too quickly at 120 - but. In my opinion 120 on and 90 low limit is far better for this furnace and more ideal for a medium house and it only helps to run the blower longer in my experience no sense in having a nice bed of hot coals and no air blowing seems dumb to me anyways a variable dial fan switch . (5 minute swap and a 20$ adjustable universal switch at your local hvac )and this furnace cycles the fan a lot more ideal in my opinion drolet may not like it but it only helps most everyone I know sets their low limit at. 90-100.before doing that though I'd consult with drolet and then check your draft speed mine seems great I guess I was fortunate


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## brenndatomu

Mlaw22 said:


> It won't open without me giving it alittle nudge. Seems to be a pivot point the puller just can't get over. Think I can bend some things around but thought I'd wait for the response from drolet first. So you think I might be okay with 90s? I notice the caddy has an air intake hook up. Do you have that hooked up? Putting 45s is gonna blow!


Ahh, OK, I didn't understand that you were having problems with the damper door working. Better get that fixed before changing thing too much. If the thermostat can cycle the burn, that may make a big difference for you. May explain why you have a large pile of coals left at the end. 
Also, your chimney is a lot shorter than layne69s, a 32' chimney will overcome extra 90s, yours may not, but I'd get a draft reading before going to the trouble of changing to 45s though.


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## laynes69

Mlaw, are you runnin a thermostat on the furnace? Even with many coals in the firebox, you may not see much heat. This all depends where your at in the burn cycle. If you have a thermostat then disregard this, but if you don't this might be it. If your firebox is full of coals, but not receiving much air (damper closed, no call for heat) then they basically go dormant. On the otherhand, if you have a thermostat and the house is calling for heat, that coal bed may go from dormant to white hot. This triggers the snapdisc, and the blower starts to heat the house. When the thermostat is satisfied, the damper closes and the firebox temps drop back down. If you don't have a thermostat and you fill the firebox and leave, I can see where after 8 hours you have many coals, but little heat. After a while, they might ash up and insulate the coalbed. If you don't have a thermostat, get one. In the 30's, I can run off a coal bed for hours, with little to no flame.


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## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> If you don't have a thermostat and you fill the firebox and leave, I can see where after 8 hours you have many coals, but little heat.


I have found that all the wood burners I have ever used work better if they are ran hard n hot for a bit (brought up to temp) before being left to run in the "autopilot" mode the rest of the day..."load n leave" seems to burn cool n dirty.
I agree, thermostat if not already installed (obviously the damper control needs to be working correctly for any of this to matter)


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## Mlaw22

This is making sense now. I have thermostat ready to go but havnt hooked it up due to the damper not opening. Ill get that fixed pronto. I still kinda like floteks thought. My first initial thought at the beginning when I first got Er goin was why is it hotter than heck and the fan isn't blowing? I'm used to the adjustable thermostat in back on the hotblast. But I don't wanna mess with warranty. So I'll get the damper and thermostat goin first and hopefully that solves it. Thanks. I'll let ya know. Manometer will be here sat .


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## flotek

Trying to run it manually doesn't work very well you need that wall thermostat to make it run correctly .sbi should have given the tundra an adjustable fan switch instead of a fixed one that had a high setting I realize their logic wanting to not cool the firebox on the unit but much heat is dormant and not getting into the ducting where it belongs . Perfect heavy bed of hot coals just sitting there and blower won't run cause its thermo switch thinks it needs to be a million degrees ..Bottom line is If that blower isn't going your house isn't being heated. The other thing is your wood has to be incredibly dry .i must have grabbed a piece the other day that was still moist boy what a mess 
Because it keeps the heat in the unit it also keeps the creosote and tarry film in it too if its not burned off . Definitly better to have smaller dry splits than big wood or rounds that are questionable . It hates greenish wood


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## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> One other thought, did you ever get any temp readings? Internal stove pipe temp (probe type thermo) or temp on the firebox? This being a new model, I can't tell you where those #s should be or the best "spot" to get them, but I do know that people with free standing stoves like to run 5-6, even as high as 700* stove top temps for them to work the best. Maybe some of your fellow Tundra owners here on AS could shoot some #s off theirs for ya? Guys (gals)?




I have a thermo gun. I have not been able to check it again since it has not really been cold out. but when it was 10 degrees and windy inside the firebox though the glass was 800-950 degrees. this was with the fire fully going. Side of unit was 120-140 ( i think) but that is insulated on the side. I did test the clean out door in the front and that was 400-500 but will have to double check again when it gets cold. Stove pipe prob only shows 200-300 most the time and sometimes less. Seems low to me. The prob just about never goes over 400-450 ish.


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## brenndatomu

spadjen said:


> I have a thermo gun. when it was 10 degrees and windy inside the firebox though the glass was 800-950 degrees. Stove pipe prob only shows 200-300 most the time and sometimes less. Seems low to me. The prob just about never goes over 400-450 ish.


Just FYI, those infrared guns don't take an accurate reading on glossy surfaces. Flat or satin black is recommended, a spot of electrical tape works good for a temporary spot to shoot (assuming the surface isn't too hot) I doubt the glass temp was accurate, although, it does _sound_ about right. The temp you took from the clean out door would probably be a good one for you Tundra/Heatmax owners to use to make comparisons, IMO.
Your lower flue temps mean that your secondary heat exchanger is doing a good job!


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## TruckerTeacher

I'm having problems with the Tundra backdrafting , when it gets cold , air just pours down the chimney , added on a wind beater cap but it didn't help much. is there a flue fan to use to reverse the backdraft long enough to get a fire going cause after its hot I don't have any problems.


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## brenndatomu

Propane torch up the flue, or a hair dryer will warm your chimney enough to get it going.


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## TruckerTeacher

hair dryer not hot enough , been using torch but it almost doesn't work either , 3 / 90 deg binds in flue , 16 ft outside ,4 ft above roof line.


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## flotek

Just about Every stove or furnace I've used has that problem from a cold start ..its part of burning wood . I have found a few pieces of paper formed in loose balls up close the the door and light em off that sends the heat up to start /prime the draft always worked for me anyways


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## brenndatomu

TruckerTeacher said:


> hair dryer not hot enough , been using torch but it almost doesn't work either , 3 / 90 deg binds in flue , 16 ft outside ,4 ft above roof line.


Ahh, there ya go, with that chimney you are gonna have issues, plain and simple. Each 90 effectively cancels out 3-4 ft of your chimney height, most stove manuals call for 15-16' minimum (straight up, no 90s) You, in effect, have somewhere between a 3'-7' chimney depending on if you use the 3' or the 4' deduction for each 90. (see post #344 above from a respected manufacturer) Can you reroute the indoor pipe with 45s?
One other thought, some people have luck "priming" their chimneys by cracking a nearby window and then leaving the stove door open for 10-15 minutes before trying to light.


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## brenndatomu

Mlaw22 said:


> Manometer will be here sat .


Get any readings yet?


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## laynes69

Yeah, you have too many elbows for a chimney that size. Whenever we light our furnace from a cold start, I do a top down fire. I light the fire, and crack the door open. After a minute or so I can close the door and let the fire take off. You need heat quickly to establish draft. With the design of the heat exchanger, the draft must be up to par.


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## Mlaw22

brenndatomu said:


> Get any readings yet?


It didn't come in yet. Slow mail being Xmas and all . I do the same thing with a ball of paper. It primes the chimney everytime. But it wouldn't work without outside air intake.


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## spadjen

I get .05 or maybe it was .5. Which is the min it should be for this furnace. That is with a 16 ' stainless outside. 2 45's inside and the 90 t outside.


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## Mlaw22

Alright I'm getting .05 to .08 on my readings. .08 when it's cookin and .05 when damper is down.


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## djkost

How do I get ahold of drolet. I have a question about the tundra. Thank.


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## brenndatomu

Mlaw22 said:


> Alright I'm getting .05 to .08 on my readings. .08 when it's cookin and .05 when damper is down.


Sounds about right for that unit (IMO) Did you get anything else sorted out yet, or everything still runnin bout the same?


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> How do I get ahold of drolet. I have a question about the tundra. Thank.


they are in canada FYI

(418) 878-3040


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## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds about right for that unit (IMO) Did you get anything else sorted out yet, or everything still runnin bout the same?


just getting cold here again. around 10-15 at night. I think i am going to be using more wood then i should. I am starting to look at static pressure of the duct system. not sure if i need to take a reading at the cold air and after the 2 8" rounds feed into the hot air plenum. The reading i am getting is very low and cant be rite. I just did a quick reading and will look into it more when i get a chance.


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## djkost

Thanks for the number, spoke to them. They answered my question except the couple I forgot to ask so maybe some one here has the answers. 1st if I run a cold return from outside my house would it be to cold since it is well below zero or in single digits? Would it cause the firebox to be to cold. 2- when running ducts Thur the wall does it get to hot or do you need a thimble or double wall pipe? Thanks.


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> Thanks for the number, spoke to them. They answered my question except the couple I forgot to ask so maybe some one here has the answers. 1st if I run a cold return from outside my house would it be to cold since it is well below zero or in single digits? Would it cause the firebox to be to cold. 2- when running ducts Thur the wall does it get to hot or do you need a thimble or double wall pipe? Thanks.


you need 2" clearance for duct work to combustibles and then changes 1" clearance something like 10' from the furnace. You dont want to take all your air from outside. you will waste wood from cooling your firebox. Chimney will not be as hot and cause problems. and take longer to heat your house. I was pulling basement air which was around 40-50 degrees and getting 110-125 at my floor vents. now i am pulling air from the living area and getting 145-165. Think of it this way. if your warming air that is 70 it is going to take less energy and give you more of a rise then if you warm air that is 40. Also, by pulling your air supply from the living area you have a way to get rid of your coldest air in the house. If you want fresh air you can try putting in a small 4" dry duct and feed that into your cold air plenum (if you have one) and put a damper on it so you can adjust it or shut it off when it gets real cold.


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## djkost

Thanks for the information. My chimney is made out of single wall 6 inch pipe then 6 inch black double wall then as it goes though the attic and roof it is insulated super vent pipe. Will this be good enough for the tundra? It is about 25 feet tall. How do I measure the draft? Can Ibuy a tool to check it or are they expensive? Thanks. I m new to all this tech talk so any information is aappreciated.


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## flotek

That's more than enough stack height. . You would need a manometer to check draft speeds


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## Mlaw22

Got my manometer on amazon for 24 bucks free delivery.


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> Thanks for the information. My chimney is made out of single wall 6 inch pipe then 6 inch black double wall then as it goes though the attic and roof it is insulated super vent pipe. Will this be good enough for the tundra? It is about 25 feet tall. How do I measure the draft? Can Ibuy a tool to check it or are they expensive? Thanks. I m new to all this tech talk so any information is aappreciated.


You might get too much draft. Worth a check. Can get a manomeater on amazon pretty reasonable. Make sure it measures inches of water . How many feet of that chimney is single and double wall.


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## spadjen

Anyone check there static pressure of there hot air duct work. Manual recomends 0'2 which i am asuming it is .2 wc. Reading i am getting is .05 which is wAy low. So how does this negatively the woodstove? Changing fan speeds dose not chang readings much. Another note. This is hooked up to duct work all by its self. Not as an add on furnace. Have a cold air plenum with a 16x20 filter that is pulling from a cold air return in the living area.


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## djkost

I m guessing that there is about 8 ft beforethe single and double wall goes in the supervent. Right now I m heating with an old energy mate furnace. It is forced air and has a draft motor on the front. I need to install a Manuel draft regulator in the chimney pipe. I was looking at one of those barometric draft put some say not to us them get the Manuel style for wood. Does the tundra need the barometric one or is a Manuel good enough. Thanks for information on on the meter.


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## flotek

Your not to use a inline flue damper
The only one is maybe a barometric draft if its too strong . The tundra is completely different compared to old style furnaces like your current smoke dragon in that it will require a good natural draft to operate correctly and will close down the air so tight that the fire will actually snuff right out if its not good and hot the flue itself never gets very hot even with a roaring fire going. .it extracts about every btu available out if the wood . My flue isn't much warmer than the ducting . It's incredibly efficient but you must have good seasoned firewood to realize the benefit also it should be noted that it doesn't throw the intense heat like probably what your used too it makes up for that in the duration of the burn time its alot happier at. 70 then pushing it hard to try to keep house at 75 like your probably used to. .this unit will make you learn to burn wood all over again its very different


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## djkost

Well I'm going to order one. Just trying to get all the install specs cause there is no install tech around my area that I know of. Thanks for the help.


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## laynes69

Good dry wood is key for these furnace's. The reason why a manual damper isn't to be used is the automatic draft. Our furnace has a different air jacket than the tundra, but the same firebox, and it's kept our house at 71 (thermostat set at 72) after 9.5 hours in the mid teens, overnight. When I wake up, the front of the coalbed is ash and there's a good coal bed in the back. It burns from the front to back, and like Flotek says, they are very efficient. Installation shouldn't be an issue, the tundra's are meant for a more user friendly install. With the automatic draft control, performance will vary based on heat load, which varies from home to home.


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## djkost

Is the Dwyer model 25 manometer gauge o.k. to use to check chimney draft and fan speed settings.


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## brenndatomu

djkost said:


> Is the Dwyer model 25 manometer gauge o.k. to use to check chimney draft and fan speed settings.


Perfect


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## trx250r87

I currently have a Vogelzang Norseman 2500 in the basement of my 2 year old 1700 sq/ft ranch (plus unfinished basement). I have 27' of straight vertical pipe (4' double black + 23' supervent double stainless) through a 1st floor closet then open attic to roof. I'm looking to upgrade to a Drolet Tundra, however I have a question on the dimensions listed on p.41 and 42 here http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_10-06-2013.pdf

My current setup uses twin wall black pipe rated for 6" clearance to combustibles, I'm right at 6". How can the manual state 18" clearance not knowing the type of pipe? What are my options?


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## brenndatomu

Cause 18" covers the bases no matter what kind of pipe you have...
If your pipe is rated for 6" then I'd go with the pipe mfg. rating. An extra piece of tin heat shield in between wouldn't be wasted insurance though...


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## trx250r87

I also don't understand why 24" between the air filter box and back wall is required. Add this to the 15.5" of filter and the back of the stove will need to be 39.5" away from the wall? My current piece of junk is 26" away. This means I'll have to use 26" of horizontal pipe out the back then connect to the "90" . Is this going to be an issue?

Eric


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## brenndatomu

Could be, if there is _any_ way to use 45s, do it! Yeah, 24" between the back of the blower and the wall sounds like plenty for sure. It may just be so that it can be accessed for service work?


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## Majorpain

Very excited about the new stove question about draw collar to heat up the chimney.


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## djkost

I read the about the max and the tundra are the same but I saw one add that said the max held 27 inch logs. Are they the same? I just want to buy the best one out of the 2.


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## laynes69

Sounds like a typo. We have the exact same firebox, and I believe it's 22". We cut our wood at 16-18" and no longer.


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## flotek

He must be looking at a caddy max 
That is not the same as the heatmax 
I know they sound the same but two different units .. The tundra. / heatmax are very similar to a caddy which all take 22" length and use same firebox same blower etc ..the max caddy is the big brother to the caddy and holds longer wood and has a larger firebox . Maybe that's where your confused


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## djkost

So they are the same so either one will work for me.


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> One thing to consider is the fixed thermo button thermostat fan switch ( it doesn't use a traditional adjustable thermodisk ) drolet has it so the furnace has to be super hot then it shuts off too quickly at 120 - but. In my opinion 120 on and 90 low limit is far better for this furnace and more ideal for a medium house and it only helps to run the blower longer in my experience no sense in having a nice bed of hot coals and no air blowing seems dumb to me anyways a variable dial fan switch . (5 minute swap and a 20$ adjustable universal switch at your local hvac )and this furnace cycles the fan a lot more ideal in my opinion drolet may not like it but it only helps most everyone I know sets their low limit at. 90-100.before doing that though I'd consult with drolet and then check your draft speed mine seems great I guess I was fortunate



Firebox needs to be that hot to get the secondary combustion going. By running your blower fan at a lower temp you are preventing it from reaching the firebox temps needed to gasify and will effectively kill your efficiency.


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> Trying to run it manually doesn't work very well you need that wall thermostat to make it run correctly .sbi should have given the tundra an adjustable fan switch instead of a fixed one that had a high setting I realize their logic wanting to not cool the firebox on the unit but much heat is dormant and not getting into the ducting where it belongs . Perfect heavy bed of hot coals just sitting there and blower won't run cause its thermo switch thinks it needs to be a million degrees ..Bottom line is If that blower isn't going your house isn't being heated. The other thing is your wood has to be incredibly dry .i must have grabbed a piece the other day that was still moist boy what a mess
> Because it keeps the heat in the unit it also keeps the creosote and tarry film in it too if its not burned off . Definitly better to have smaller dry splits than big wood or rounds that are questionable . It hates greenish wood



Again, the design of this furnace is to create a secondary burn. This is done by burning the smoke and can only be accomplished at super high temps and by injecting super heated air. This is why wet/green wood doesn't work either. The same way pure water will always boil at 100 degrees, steam from the wood will only get to about 370 degrees and effectively cool the firebox to the point where gasification isn't possible.

Up to 2/3rds of the energy in wood comes from the gasses inside. This furnace was engineered to take advantage of that while giving you the ability to connect a thermostat to control the burn somewhat. You must use dry wood and you will get more heat and longer burn times using smaller pieces of dry wood than the big wet rounds you are used to.

Smaller dry wood = more heat output = less time needed for damper to be open = longer burn times

Everyone reading this needs to get past using moisture (bigger wood) to control burn times and instead understand that this furnace uses air to control burn times. It's much more efficient.


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## Cloud IT

TruckerTeacher said:


> I'm having problems with the Tundra backdrafting , when it gets cold , air just pours down the chimney , added on a wind beater cap but it didn't help much. is there a flue fan to use to reverse the backdraft long enough to get a fire going cause after its hot I don't have any problems.



Do you have a 6" double insulated flue running all the way up or are you running a 6" pipe to a clay chimney? I'm betting on the latter. If so what is happening is that when the pipe goes from 6" to whatever is that the pressure will lower and it will instantly cool your draft. We all know that when you pressurize air it will get hotter but you have to remember that the opposite will happen.

Another issue that can cause this is negative pressure in your house. If you read the owners manual there are tons of details on how this could happen. Make sure you aren't running any bathroom fans or any other type of fan that may cause a negative pressure in your house and try cracking a window near the furnace to let some air in. This is what fresh air kits are for and I wish they made one for the heatmax. They do for the caddy line so I'm hopeful they will release it someday.


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## Cloud IT

trx250r87 said:


> I currently have a Vogelzang Norseman 2500 in the basement of my 2 year old 1700 sq/ft ranch (plus unfinished basement). I have 27' of straight vertical pipe (4' double black + 23' supervent double stainless) through a 1st floor closet then open attic to roof. I'm looking to upgrade to a Drolet Tundra, however I have a question on the dimensions listed on p.41 and 42 here http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45656A_10-06-2013.pdf
> 
> My current setup uses twin wall black pipe rated for 6" clearance to combustibles, I'm right at 6". How can the manual state 18" clearance not knowing the type of pipe? What are my options?



You will be fine. Flue temps are lower with this furnace. The max i've seen is 600 degrees but that was when I was trying to heat my home up after being away for a weekend. Most of the time it's around 400.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> So they are the same so either one will work for me.



They are both the same. The only reason for creating different models is so that companies can market "lowest price guarantee" everywhere without fear of having to pay out because they put in the fine print that it must be the same model number. If you look at every website ever heatmax has a different model number from one website to the next. Same with the tundra's. Northern tool is the worst for this imo. If you read their "Guaranteed Lowest Prices" it says in the fine print "Guarantee not valid on competitor close-outs, misprints, special buys, special promotions, price quotes, rebates, coupons, liquidations, auction websites, items that include free shipping, or member club pricing. Item must be identical make and model#." Given the fact that they assign a unique model number to the furnace makes the "Guarantee" 100% bogus.


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## brenndatomu

Family Farm & Home sale...just FYI for anybody looking to buy one soon.
This was posted by a member over on Hearth, he said the tag reads sale price good until sometime in March '14! (Almont MI. store, just in case it is not a chain wide sale)


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## Cloud IT

killer price. I couldn't get them to ship it to me tho. I called and spoke with 2 different people but they never called me back.


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## flotek

My thermo fan is set lower and I have no trouble at all getting secondary action
Do you have a tundra cloud ?or are you basing that idea of using the factory fan switch on the caddy lineup instead of the furnace in question ? People who run the caddy parallel to their furnace often run them to kick off Around 90-100 the tundra is far far from that setting in factory form


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## spadjen

Majorpain said:


> Very excited about the new stove question about draw collar to heat up the chimney.


Umm.......say what?


----------



## spadjen

spadjen said:


> just getting cold here again. around 10-15 at night. I think i am going to be using more wood then i should. I am starting to look at static pressure of the duct system. not sure if i need to take a reading at the cold air and after the 2 8" rounds feed into the hot air plenum. The reading i am getting is very low and cant be rite. I just did a quick reading and will look into it more when i get a chance.


Ok. So i am getting .05-.07 static pressure and the manual calls for .20. Any ideas?


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## Cloud IT

spadjen said:


> Ok. So i am getting .05-.07 static pressure and the manual calls for .20. Any ideas?



Try setting your blower speed to it's highest setting.


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> My thermo fan is set lower and I have no trouble at all getting secondary action
> Do you have a tundra cloud ?or are you basing that idea of using the factory fan switch on the caddy lineup instead of the furnace in question ? People who run the caddy parallel to their furnace often run them to kick off Around 90-100 the tundra is far far from that setting in factory form



I bought one as soon as they came out. Lowering the temp of the firebox wouldn't completely stop you from getting secondary combustion but it will for sure reduce it. The firebox won't stay at 90 and will eventually reach a temp high enough to ignite the smoke.

Why would you think they shipped it with a snap disk rated for 120 vs 90 deg to begin with? I'm certain that they do testing to certify the efficiency and they saw a better result at 120 vs 90 deg.

Your logic is that you want to get more heat out of your firebox and into your house. That's the old way of thinking. With these newer and more efficient designs you actually want to keep as much heat in the firebox as possible to get more complete combustion.


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## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> Try setting your blower speed to it's highest setting.


I did try that and it resulted in the higher reading I got.


----------



## brenndatomu

Throttle some of your closer registers a lil. You have to "balance" the air flow so you get the heat in the places you want it but it still has the enough left to push to the farthest room. Do you have a filter in the system? A filter that is too restrictive will cause low pressure! Can you describe your duct system? Size, length, quantity...etc
It is possible that this blower is a bit small for your system. If that's the case then I'd get it so it's doing the job for you and not worry about the numbers.


----------



## Cloud IT

spadjen said:


> I did try that and it resulted in the higher reading I got.



I know exactly what your issues are. I have the same issues and have discovered the problems. The manufacturer is working on a solution as we speak. The blower has a higher CFM rating than the one on the PSG Caddy and should be adequate for my home but it is not capable of providing the pressure needed for longer runs. If you have smaller runs of ducting you won't have any issues. I'll be sure to send you a PM and post here as soon as there is a confirmed fix.


----------



## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> I know exactly what your issues are. I have the same issues and have discovered the problems. The manufacturer is working on a solution as we speak. The blower has a higher CFM rating than the one on the PSG Caddy and should be adequate for my home but it is not capable of providing the pressure needed for longer runs. If you have smaller runs of ducting you won't have any issues. I'll be sure to send you a PM and post here as soon as there is a confirmed fix.


nice. thanks for the heads up. thought i was going crazy. which could also be possible.


----------



## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> Throttle some of your closer registers a lil. You have to "balance" the air flow so you get the heat in the places you want it but it still has the enough left to push to the farthest room. Do you have a filter in the system? A filter that is too restrictive will cause low pressure! Can you describe your duct system? Size, length, quantity...etc
> It is possible that this blower is a bit small for your system. If that's the case then I'd get it so it's doing the job for you and not worry about the numbers.


i do have a filter but i tried my reading with out a filter also. I will try shutting down all the registers but one and see what happens. I have the 2 8" rounds feeding into an air plenum that is 12 feet away. off that plenum is a 20' of 16x8 trunk that has 3 6" runs no more then 10' feeding floor vents. Also off the plenum is a 8" that t's off to a 6" round about 6' feet down. the 8" is supplying 2 floor registers. also off the plenum is 2 more 6" not more then 10' feeding 2 more floor vents. if your still with me your doing good. In total i have 7 floor vents all on the 1st floor grouped / spread out over a 25x45 area. all sheet mettle with no flex duck other then 3' of flex connecting the cold air plenum. 

another question. i know what too high of a static pressure can do. what is the negative affect that too low of a static pressure can have. Which brings to mind another unrelated question. is it effect or affect?


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## Cloud IT

Too much static pressure could slow down the flow of air and overheat your firebox. Too little static pressure won't do anything but not distribute the heat from your ducts properly. You will simply need to run the furnace more and consume more wood to get the same effective heat output. As for effect vs affect, http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/style-and-usage/affect-effect-grammar.html


----------



## Mlaw22

spadjen said:


> Ok. So i am getting .05-.07 static pressure and the manual calls for .20. Any ideas?



I'm getting -0.5 out of the stove and 2.0 coming in from the cold air. Taking the reading in the duct work that my two 8" are connected to. Am I reading something wrong?


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## flotek

For some Too high of a fan speed will cool of the unit resulting in the thermo switch shutting blower off prematurely which at that point is useless. . Also if the unit shuts off at 120 which is more like 130. ..and just cycles instead of consistently it's going to have the intake damper open far more often this way because the thermo wants more heat upstairs but blower isn't accomplishing the heat required to keep the set temperature and there goes yourefficiency . When the fan kicks off has little to do with secondary's and how long they are sustained from what I seen on mine yes higher secondary intake air temperature is favorable but there's not a dramatic difference I know others with this furnace who experience what I'm saying as well


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## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> Too much static pressure could slow down the flow of air and overheat your firebox. Too little static pressure won't do anything but not distribute the heat from your ducts properly. You will simply need to run the furnace more and consume more wood to get the same effective heat output. As for effect vs affect, http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/style-and-usage/affect-effect-grammar.html


That may be why it seems i am using more wood then i think i should. Also not getting as long of a burn time as i would like. 6-8 hours is bout what i average on a good night. When do you think they are going to get back to you? Any info you can pm me. Maybe i can squawk in there ear.

Good grammar insight too. Things you can learn from buying a new wood stove.


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## laynes69

Cloud IT said:


> I know exactly what your issues are. I have the same issues and have discovered the problems. The manufacturer is working on a solution as we speak. The blower has a higher CFM rating than the one on the PSG Caddy and should be adequate for my home but it is not capable of providing the pressure needed for longer runs. If you have smaller runs of ducting you won't have any issues. I'll be sure to send you a PM and post here as soon as there is a confirmed fix.



The blower for the Caddy is the same blower as the Tundra. Technically, the Caddy will get a higher cfm due to little restriction in the plenum compared to the 2-8" outlets, which also results in the higher btu rating. That firebox not only has lightweight firebrick, but also a 1/4 ceramic blanket. The trick is getting the furnace up to operating temps, once that happens and secondary combustion occurs, it will cruise with good seasoned wood. Larger wood vs. smaller, as long as it's seasoned, the larger splits will cruise longer than multiple smaller splits. They take longer to offgas, so they produce a longer burn. We are currently burning wood that's been split and covered for 3 years. 

As far as burn times are concerned, this all has to do with the home and the demand for heat. Last year we had a very drafty home, and when it was in the mid teens, we would load at 10pm and at 5:00am we would reload again, house at 70 overnight. Now that we have done some major improvements, I load at 9-9:30 pm and at 7:30 am the house is 69-70 with a nice coal bed. Nothing different, same types of wood, same draft, same setting on the wall thermostat. 
A tighter home just uses less fuel, whether it's oil, propane or wood. 

Having 2-8" outlets on top of the furnace, and feeding 7 ducts with this, there's not going to be a good flow, especially with a 12' run before the plenum. I still don't understand why the company only allows 2 of the 4 openings to be used. We have the same firebox, same blower, and I couldn't imagine reducing our plenum down to that size.


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## flotek

I think there reasoning is probably do it so it retrofits in the same duct space and floor layout pattern as a a hotblast / Jensen / Norseman
Furnace and they had that goal when laying it all out for an easy swap . Maybe by covering off two of the ducts they felt it would retain heat . Who knows for sure . We are probably over analyzing it on how they developed the changes considering it is just a cheap affordable caddy inspired copy to boost sales for sbi for the masses who are tired of feeding their smoke dragons 7 cubic feet of firewood every 5 hours last month the rep for sbi said they had sold over 1,300 tundras so it must be working


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## Cloud IT

Blowers are different according to posted online specs. The heatmax/tundra gets a 1/4 hp 1400 cfm max blower and the PSG caddy gets a 1/3 hp 1300 cfm blower. ref http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=577&Page=spec and http://www.drolet.ca/upload/documents/manuels/45690A_28-06-2013.pdf

"Larger wood" and "seasoned wood" are both relative terms. The key is to get the moisture content down. Unfortunately it's hard to get all the moisture out of what I would call "larger" wood. I've split 3 year old seasoned wood before and tested the inside. It was a big piece of wood that my dad uses for "overnight wood". He swore up and down it was going to be completely dried out and it wasn't. You might want to test some of your wood the same way. If it's not above 18% in the middle you are good.

I almost wish my house wasn't insulated so well so the damper would open up more often. Last night I loaded up at 10pm and forgot to check it this morning. At 11:30 I realized it was starting to get cooler in the house and sure enough it dropped to 71 deg (wife likes to keep it at 73!) I went down expecting a cold stove and was able to get enough coals under the ashes to instantly light wood when I reloaded. The time of burn I get varies on the damper. It's not great when the damper is open full 24/7. I would say 6 hours tops but you are going to have one heck of a pile of coals for many hours after that.

Even tho the blower doesn't kick on I still get a ton of heat via convection. If it's installed properly everyone will. I'm glad it doesn't kick on until it gets to 120 because it allows me to control the heat better and not have wild temperature swings. I've been a cozy 73 all winter and i'm closing in on burning my first cord. I'm going to be able to keep it 73-74 in the house all winter on 3 cords. I'm for sure a fan and will be even more stoked when they correct a few design issues and come out with a revision.


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> I think there reasoning is probably do it so it retrofits in the same duct space and floor layout pattern as a a hotblast / Jensen / Norseman
> Furnace and they had that goal when laying it all out for an easy swap . Maybe by covering off two of the ducts they felt it would retain heat . Who knows for sure . We are probably over analyzing it on how they developed the changes considering it is just a cheap affordable caddy inspired copy to boost sales for sbi for the masses who are tired of feeding their smoke dragons 7 cubic feet of firewood every 5 hours last month the rep for sbi said they had sold over 1,300 tundras so it must be working



They need to focus on educating the customer more and their sales will be even better. It's a different way of thinking and I've actually had multiple dealers in my local area tell me face to face that outdoor EPA gasifiers were nothing but a bs extra charge that the EPA gets. Said there was zero difference between a EPA certified furnace and a regular one. No dealer is going to say that to their rep but they are saying it to the customer base. There is a massive internet movement in the US right now and burning wood for heat has been proven to be green and sustainable. We have estimated aprox. 350,000 Americans are currently using only electric heat and have an older style wood furnace that is not being used. As energy cost rise the appeal becomes greater once they understand they can get an EPA furnace and literally burn half the wood as a normal furnace.

This isn't even the most efficient furnace to get either. The Kumma is more efficient. There are two main differences why. First is the computer that doesn't connect to a thermostat but instead monitors the temperature of the burn to maintain maximum efficiency. There are different settings for various heat outputs and the output is constant. The heatmax has a thermostat and I would rather not risk overheating my house. The second big difference is that the Kumma has a well insulated front door and the heatmax/tundra has a glass door. I know it's not as efficient, but I love it. It gets so freaking hot you can't get a few feed in front of it sometimes. It gets so hot it is hard to film a video with my iphone 5s where the screen is filled with nothing but the window. I have to back up further, it's just too hot. A solid door would be way more efficient but I'll take my glass door any day. 

Kudos to Kumma and what they are doing. I was so close to pulling the trigger on a vapor fire all summer long. I instead stuck to waiting on the heatmax/tundra simply due to the price difference. I can't help but think in the back of my mind that the Kumma is a better furnace tho. Without ever seeing one in person I get the feeling it's just a better made product and the cost is probably justified.


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## djkost

Well ordered my tundra today. Can't wait to install it. Sure I will have a question or two during set up.


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## spadjen

ok. so this may be information known by some but being new to an indoor wood furnace i was unaware of this and never gave it 2nd thought. c/o detectors going off in house and could not get them to reset. called the Fire Department out to check with there meter. thought i was getting combustion air thorough open damper or that my co detectors were getting old. They found fluctuating c/o coming directly out of the floor registers. readings of 200-30. thinking there was a crack in the firebox or heat ex-changer they condemned my wood furnace and shut it down. When emptying the firebox we pulled the ash box and saw that they were still hot from the day before. And i meen hot. They left and i got to calling but go nowhere since it was after hours. so sitting in a cold house thinking out what the f*** was going on i thought of the basic stupid design of a ash box in the air plenum. Then i had the though....what if they did not seal the ash box from the air plenum. no....dont think they would do that. well i checked and sure enough they are connected. pull your ash box and look up underneath and you will see a gap all the way around. put a light where the blower is in the back and you will see it in your ash box. when your blower turns on pull your ash box and see all your ashes blowing everywhere. I dont have any idea why they would do this. This would also explain why the ashes were still hot....they are being forced combustion air. This may be common knowledge to some but i say it is still the stupidest thing i have seen in awhile. the directions say to regularly empty ash pan and it should read dont operate with ashes in pan. Easy fix to c/o is to empty your ashes right away. but then there is still the problem of ash dust now being circulated around your duct work and into your house. WTF


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## laynes69

Huh? If there was a gap, ash would be pulled from the ashpan into the home. All furnaces have ash pans that are surrounded by the air jackets. When you rake ashes into the pan, they can stay hot for days. We have multiple CO detectors and never had any issues. Have you checked draft, does the chimney have any buildup? If it was the ashpan, you would have had this problem from the start. Can you get any pictures?


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## brenndatomu

Wow, circulating CO gas = dangerous, circulating ash dust = serious PITA, sounds like a major oopsy in the design dept if this is true!


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## laynes69

I would pull the blower and look inside the unit. Get a mirror and flashlight if needed. Our furnace shares the same firebox, and I know 100% those pans are fully welded to the furnace, or should be.


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## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> Huh? If there was a gap, ash would be pulled from the ash pan into the home. All furnaces have ash pans that are surrounded by the air jackets. When you rake ashes into the pan, they can stay hot for days. We have multiple CO detectors and never had any issues. Have you checked draft, does the chimney have any buildup? If it was the ash pan, you would have had this problem from the start. Can you get any pictures?


that is what i am saying. ash can and prob is being pulled into the house. but i guess pushed is more like it. the blower is basically pushing air into the ash pan that then could and dose find its way into the air jacket. i cant take pics now since i have a blazing fire going trying to reheat the house. but just pull your pan get down and look up with a flash light. you will see a gap all the way around the top of the ash draw. if you have a fire going now and the blower is on. just open the draw and you will see and feel the air being pushed out. this should tell you right there that there is a connection between the air jacket and the ash box.


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## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> I would pull the blower and look inside the unit. Get a mirror and flashlight if needed. Our furnace shares the same firebox, and I know 100% those pans are fully welded to the furnace, or should be.


if it was welded it would not pass light. but yes....a more in depth look to see where the deficiency is would be a good idea. any want to do a tare down of there new furnace?


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## laynes69

If it's defective why would you start a fire back in the unit? I just looked under mine, with a fire in the furnace and the blower running and it's fully welded and 100% sealed.


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## spadjen

FD just came back for 2nd reading and it was 0. So that was the problem. Ash in the pan = C/O in the house. also could this be the problem of my very low static pressure of .05 when it should be .20 ?


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## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> If it's defective why would you start a fire back in the unit? I just looked under mine, with a fire in the furnace and the blower running and it's fully welded and 100% sealed.


I would start it again since there is no ash in the box. thus being no safety issue. so do you have the same unit? the heatmax or the caddy. I can be sure the ash box is the same on both. but in your pic there is welds at the bottom of the box. then it looks to be some square tubing at the top. above that square tubing is where the gap is. looks like some gap in yours too? cant tell from the pic.


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## spadjen

you can see the gap at the top all the way around.


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## laynes69

There's no gap, it's a caddy not a tundra. I believe the gap your seeing is where the pan housing goes around the preheat tunnels for the secondary air, that's the only difference I know of between the two. Your ashplug on the firebox isn't sealed 100% between the pan and firebox, that's why there is a gasket on the ashpan door. Was it warmer today where you are? Chimneys can reverse draft, especially with warmer weather. I'm not saying your furnace isn't defective, but a 1400 cfm would turn your ductwork into a dust cloud.


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## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> There's no gap, it's a caddy not a tundra. I believe the gap your seeing is where the pan housing goes around the preheat tunnels for the secondary air, that's the only difference I know of between the two. Your ashplug on the firebox isn't sealed 100% between the pan and firebox, that's why there is a gasket on the ashpan door. Was it warmer today where you are? Chimneys can reverse draft, especially with warmer weather. I'm not saying your furnace isn't defective, but a 1400 cfm would turn your ductwork into a dust cloud.


there is no gasket on the ash pan door. you have a different unit. i do understand about draft and chimney pressures and back draft. if you read my post that is where i started. But after 3 hours with the FD and getting a ZERO reading at the register and the only thing we changed was empty the ash draw then why would you think it is anything but the ash draw? dont mean to rain on anyone's parade. still love the furnace. just hope it can be fixed before it kills me.


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## laynes69

Your ashpan housing is (should) be welded behind the preheat channels on the furnace. If you want to test it, pull the ashpan plug, and keep the ashpan door closed. If the fire ramps up quickly around the ash plug inside the firebox then it's leaking. How is your furnace return ducted, does it take air from the furnace room?


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## laynes69

I'm just going off the manual where it states to keep the ashpan door closed at all times, or it could cause an uncontrollable fire. I've never seen an ashpan that didn't have a gasket. That's new if that's the case. I'll let someone with a tundra chime in then, if the designs are that different.


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## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> Your ashpan housing is (should) be welded behind the preheat channels on the furnace. If you want to test it, pull the ashpan plug, and keep the ashpan door closed. If the fire ramps up quickly around the ash plug inside the firebox then it's leaking. How is your furnace return ducted, does it take air from the furnace room?


it takes air from upstairs. has its own cold air supply. i can fit my fingers between the gap in the back of the firebox so i know it is not sealed. i would assume that the reason the manual says to keep the ash pan door shut is that it would not circulate air around the fir box causing it to over heat. most of the air would be pushed out thought the ash pan opening and would not circulate enough air around the box.


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## laynes69

That's a poor design if that's the case. Our ashpan housing is welded inside the preheat channels. That way there's no way to leak ash or CO. Our ashpan always has ash in it, I empty when full. Good thing you caught it. I take it, this is the first time you kept ash in the pan?


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## djkost

What kind of wood stove does spandjen have? My old energy mate doesn't have a gasket ashpan. When I open the ashpan on mind when there is a fire going ashes are flying inside the ashbox but that's because it is sucking air into the furnace. DDoing this also causes the fire to realreal burn. I have never emptied ashes while the stove was burning. Doing so would cause the fire to get to much draft. I just ordered a tundra and it isn't in yet so was wondering what kind of stove he has.


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## spadjen

Drolet heatmax . Firebox is sealed from the ash pan so this would not be the case. A lot of drolet stoves use the same design and requires no gasket on the ash pan.


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## flotek

Yeah I noticed this issue also. .. The blower can get into the ash drawer it I'd not sealed very well . But it doesn't seem to blow the ash up into the ducts 
I've gotten into the habit of dumping it 
No sense in getting co2 in your house 
And of coarse air going over hot embers in your ducting is dangerous


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## djkost

Wait a minute, I just picked up my tundra today and now I'm reading that there is ash going into the duct work? Is that possible.?


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## Steve NW WI

Doesn't the Tundra/Heatmax use a plug in the bottom of the firebox to get ashes into the pan? If so, I don't know why they bother. My HT2000 is the same way, and it's a total PITA, easier to scoop em and dump em out the door. 

I like ash pans, but only if the ashes get there on their own via a grate. Finding a little plug amongst coals and ash, raking just the ash while trying to leave the coals, and then trying to re-fit the plug and reloading the stove is about the dumbest idea ever devised, and it was probably done because people like me wanted a built in ash pan. My bad, I apologize. When I have to replace bricks, I've got half a mind to weld it shut and "pave" over it.


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## flotek

The plug in the floor of firebox seals it off . This concern only pertains to those who dump their ashes down through the plug hole into the ash drawer and then continue to run the furnace with blower . If you just use it as a "dump" and promptly empty it then it would be fine . To me this
Something sbi should know better on how many thousands will purchase the unit and have no knowledge of this problem . I like mine but it begs the question ;How many people could be getting headaches and fatigue ect ,and not even know about coals in their furnace it seems unusually careless for sbi to not at least not have clear warnings


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## laynes69

flotek said:


> Something sbi should know better on how many thousands will purchase the unit and have no knowledge of this problem . I like mine but it begs the question ;How many people could be getting headaches and fatigue ect ,and not even know about coals in their furnace it seems unusually careless for sbi to not at least not have clear warnings



That's a scary thought! I still can't believe they didn't enclose the housing to the firebox. I've seen quite a few furnaces, and I've never seen one with a detached ash pan. One of the selling points of the tundra was the extra large ash pan, unlike our small ashpan in the Caddy. I assumed that it meant one could let ash accumulate in the pan before removal. It doesn't state in the manual that ash to be removed right away from the pan, just remove every 2 to 3 days. Not good on their part.


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## djkost

I'm going to call them Monday. I just got mine and might send it back for this reason. The company might be able to answer this. If this is indeed happening I don't see a quick fix. My old energy mate ashpan can go 2 days before I empty it and all toxic gases go out the flue.


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## brenndatomu

If I was buying this furnace, I just wouldn't use the ash pan. PITA to use anyways. My small "shoulder season" stove has an ash pan, never used it. It is easier to just dig the firebox out. I'm gonna try my hand at fabbing up something like this for my stove.


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## spadjen

I am going to call them on Monday too. Spending 3 hours outside in the cold while the fire department trashed the carpets is not something I am happy about. Until then I will bypass the pan and use a shovel. I still am going to demand they fix the problem . I am sure the state fire marshal would be thrilled about this design.


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## bryceraisanen

Sooo... my old daka just developed a crack in the firebox and is sending traces up smoke through the ductwork. I'm scrambling to find a new wood furnace, and have had my heart set on a Tundra for awhile. Has anyone found out who has them in stock, in central MN?? Menards, Lowes, Home Depot, etc etc are all special online order only, and take like 5-10 days. In the meantime, house is cooling rapidly, -10 degrees outside....

I'd also like to take a looksee my ownself to see if theres not a welded seam b/t the ash tray and the air plenum.


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## Cloud IT

spadjen said:


> ok. so this may be information known by some but being new to an indoor wood furnace i was unaware of this and never gave it 2nd thought. c/o detectors going off in house and could not get them to reset. called the Fire Department out to check with there meter. thought i was getting combustion air thorough open damper or that my co detectors were getting old. They found fluctuating c/o coming directly out of the floor registers. readings of 200-30. thinking there was a crack in the firebox or heat ex-changer they condemned my wood furnace and shut it down. When emptying the firebox we pulled the ash box and saw that they were still hot from the day before. And i meen hot. They left and i got to calling but go nowhere since it was after hours. so sitting in a cold house thinking out what the f*** was going on i thought of the basic stupid design of a ash box in the air plenum. Then i had the though....what if they did not seal the ash box from the air plenum. no....dont think they would do that. well i checked and sure enough they are connected. pull your ash box and look up underneath and you will see a gap all the way around. put a light where the blower is in the back and you will see it in your ash box. when your blower turns on pull your ash box and see all your ashes blowing everywhere. I dont have any idea why they would do this. This would also explain why the ashes were still hot....they are being forced combustion air. This may be common knowledge to some but i say it is still the stupidest thing i have seen in awhile. the directions say to regularly empty ash pan and it should read dont operate with ashes in pan. Easy fix to c/o is to empty your ashes right away. but then there is still the problem of ash dust now being circulated around your duct work and into your house. WTF



I've known about this for some time but promised to keep quiet about it in hopes of a resolution. Was promised a new furnace once a fix was in place but a month later they went back on their word and changed it to giving me $300 bucks or I could take it back to where I got it from and get a full refund.

I went out and got a tube of the JB weld clay and tried to patch it up myself but it's just wide open inside.

I've come to realize it's the entire mindset of the company. They don't invest into things like development, design, web presence, customer support, etc because they think of it as a waste of money. They bought PSG to get the great design of the Caddy line. They then thought because they were a big manufacture of existing furnaces that they could cut corners and throw together a new furnace much cheaper than the Caddy and sell it in bulk. They kept the firebox design and then put everything around it as cheap as they possibly could and according to the customer service rep I spoke with "went too far".

The other reason, if someone hasn't figured it out yet as I haven't read all the post in this thread yet, is that the blower doesn't even seal up to the back of the furnace. They just cut a hole and stuck the blower into it. Most of the air simply escapes out the back. I was told that they were getting an adaptor made so the blower would seal.

I've simply abandoned using the ash pan and have sealed it up with foil tape. I purchased an ash vac and simply vac out the ashes as I go.

I've tried taping up the furnace as much as possible but simply can't get any static pressure to build up. Even the sides of the furnace are simply rolled and not welded and leak air like a sieve.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point with the furnace but I will be writing a detailed blog about it and my experiences with support. I will also perform SEO to maximize the visibility when people search for the furnace. The company doesn't do any SEO or online marketing itself so it will be easy to outrank the factory website and the major retailers. If you would like to contribute and vent your frustrations I can promise you that you will be heard. PM me and I'll give you my email and you can send me your "review".

For those considering the furnace you should wait to see if they fix the design flaws or simply purchase something else. I would love to be able to recommend a Caddy but they refused to sell me one and told me I had to buy one from a dealer but there is no dealer within 3 hours of me.


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## Cloud IT

laynes69 said:


> If it's defective why would you start a fire back in the unit? I just looked under mine, with a fire in the furnace and the blower running and it's fully welded and 100% sealed.



Mine has a gap all the way around it. When the blower runs it pushes a ton of air out the ash pan door.

Does your blower seal up against the back of the furnace or is it just sticking into a rough cutout of a hole into the air jacket?

*Edit* Nevermind, you don't even have a heatmax/tundra. You have a Caddy and it's a different design and why you don't have this issue.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> Wait a minute, I just picked up my tundra today and now I'm reading that there is ash going into the duct work? Is that possible.?



I would return it.


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> The plug in the floor of firebox seals it off . This concern only pertains to those who dump their ashes down through the plug hole into the ash drawer and then continue to run the furnace with blower . If you just use it as a "dump" and promptly empty it then it would be fine . To me this
> Something sbi should know better on how many thousands will purchase the unit and have no knowledge of this problem . I like mine but it begs the question ;How many people could be getting headaches and fatigue ect ,and not even know about coals in their furnace it seems unusually careless for sbi to not at least not have clear warnings



It's not fine, it's a design flaw. It makes the ash pan unusable and also leaks a ton of air out of the ash pan door preventing proper static pressures.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> I'm going to call them Monday. I just got mine and might send it back for this reason. The company might be able to answer this. If this is indeed happening I don't see a quick fix. My old energy mate ashpan can go 2 days before I empty it and all toxic gases go out the flue.



They will simply tell you to return it. There is no fix.


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## brenndatomu

Cloud IT said:


> Does your blower seal up against the back of the furnace or is it just sticking into a rough cutout of a hole into the air jacket?


All of the blowers that I have dealt with that didn't simply bolt on, were "sealed" by a strip of heavy felt slipped into a standard duct S slip, screwed to the inside of the furnaces air jacket on each of the four sides of the blower hole. When the blower is pushed into the hole, the felt seals it up well enough. I would think that this is the installers responsibility to do though.
The amount of air that the ash drawer and any seams on the furnace body can leak out is_ inconsequential_ in the big picture of setting static pressures on a 1000+ CFM blower. Your blower speed, duct system design, free flowing return air, and how you have any dampers or register shutters set in the supply ducts is 99% (or more) of it. Don't blame the Mfgr for inexperienced installer mistakes.
Cloud IT, before you wage all out war on SBI, how 'bout waiting long enough to see how they handle some of these other customers now. It's possible that they have copped an attitude toward you personally or that who you have been dealing with just stinks at their job. Either way is not good customer service, but it is _possible_, at least at this point, that yours is an isolated incident as far as how they have handled your problems. Not pushing the big *RED* button for a few more days won't hurt, give them a chance to respond to these other guys first, see what happens, then proceed accordingly.

I bet that the ones coming off the assembly line will soon be (if not already) fixed. It can't cost more than a few cents per unit more to seal up the ash drawer!
I can't tell from the pics, but I was wondering, how hard would it be to fix this ash drawer problem yourself? (for the average DIYer)


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## laynes69

In all honesty, the manual should have stated not to operate with ash in the ashpan. If that was the case it wouldn't be an issue. I just assumed they enclosed it, which would have been a better option. Fortunately, no one was hurt here.

I've never had any issues with SBI, they have always been more than fair and have answered all of my questions, and warranty issues. I think they are an excellent company, and they will correct this either in literature or in assembly.

The reason why they won't sell the Caddy without going thru a dealer is, too many things can complicate installation. They want to be able to track their furnaces, and have dealers to backup their products in case of warranty or technical issues. Not everyone has the skills and tools for a proper install.

Hopefully everyone who has purchased a Tundra has registered their product so they can track things correctly.


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## djkost

Well mine is sitting in theggarage. I haven't installed it yet but the blower is already installed on the furnace. I have to install the filter kit so will shine a light in there and see if there is any light in the ashpan. Also what serial number is your furnace? Maybe they fixed the problem on mine before they shipped it. Also is it just the tundra or is it the heatmax people are having trouble with.


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## Cloud IT

brenndatomu said:


> All of the blowers that I have dealt with that didn't simply bolt on, were "sealed" by a strip of heavy felt slipped into a standard duct S slip, screwed to the inside of the furnaces air jacket on each of the four sides of the blower hole. When the blower is pushed into the hole, the felt seals it up well enough. I would think that this is the installers responsibility to do though.
> The amount of air that the ash drawer and any seams on the furnace body can leak out is_ inconsequential_ in the big picture of setting static pressures on a 1000+ CFM blower. Your blower speed, duct system design, free flowing return air, and how you have any dampers or register shutters set in the supply ducts is 99% (or more) of it. Don't blame the Mfgr for inexperienced installer mistakes.
> Cloud IT, before you wage all out war on SBI, how 'bout waiting long enough to see how they handle some of these other customers now. It's possible that they have copped an attitude toward you personally or that who you have been dealing with just stinks at their job. Either way is not good customer service, but it is _possible_, at least at this point, that yours is an isolated incident as far as how they have handled your problems. Not pushing the big *RED* button for a few more days won't hurt, give them a chance to respond to these other guys first, see what happens, then proceed accordingly.
> 
> I bet that the ones coming off the assembly line will soon be (if not already) fixed. It can't cost more than a few cents per unit more to seal up the ash drawer!
> I can't tell from the pics, but I was wondering, how hard would it be to fix this ash drawer problem yourself? (for the average DIYer)



Wow, what? Do you even have or have seen this furnace in person?

First, the blower comes installed on every unit. 
Second, if you think the blower being mounted like the attached photo is "inconsequential" in the big picture of static pressure then you are flat out wrong.









Third, I'm not waging all out war against anyone. I've made tons of positive comments in this thread about this furnace. It has great potential but as the SBI rep told me, they simply cut too many corners in the development and went too far with reducing cost. Fourth, I've had repeated issues that go weeks without getting a reply. Their customer service is bad, like really bad. My standards are probably a bit higher than most because I expect a similar type of experience that I provide for my customers. SBI's CS isn't even remotely close. 
Fifth, I was told that I would get a prototype replacement furnace to test to see if the issues were fully resolved. The "fix" wasn't supposed to be ready until Jan and I started complaining about these issues and made contact with SBI in September. Their promise became a lie right before Christmas and I was told there was no fix for the ash pan gap and that I could get a bracket to fix the blower gap issue.

The ash pan gap runs the total length of the drawer area and would be next to impossible to properly fix. My dad was a boilermaker for his entire life and said he couldn't weld it.






Laynes69 I respect your opinion and fully disagree. Marking a product with a oversized ashpan as a feature knowing that you can't use it is simply wrong. You could as you say empty it out every time but you would have to wash the pan with soap and water to prevent fine ash dust from being distributed throughout your house. As you can see from my pictures I cleaned as best I could but the damage was already done and you see fine dust in every picture. If I clean it with water it just comes back. It's spread throughout the furnace jacket and my ducts in my home.

There are even more issues I haven't mentioned yet. When I received the unit the baffle was broken and they sent me a new one. It took a month and a half to receive but I did get it. When I tried to install it I ran into a problem removing the secondary burn tubes, they simply wouldn't come out. I sent an email requesting a phone call for help. I'm still waiting on that phone call.... I did receive a quick response from a guy that said to follow the directions and sent me a copy of the owners manual where it outlined the procedure. I had already told him i had it and that it wasn't working and sent him the pictures below when we finally got one out by simply pounding the crap out of it.

Turns out the secondary burn tubes warp under normal use and the lip will catch on the channel where the secondary air flows. Every one of mine were stuck and I had to use vice grips and a hammer to remove them. Well, actually my 70 year old dad had to do it
because I have two ruptured disks in my back and you can only imagine how awkward the position would be to remove them.













If you have a tundra/heatmax and have been using it for a month or so, go see if you can remove them. I would be interested to know your results.

You guys speak as if you are affiliated with SBI in some way. I have no such affiliation and that gives me the liberty to speak openly about the furnace defects.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> Well mine is sitting in theggarage. I haven't installed it yet but the blower is already installed on the furnace. I have to install the filter kit so will shine a light in there and see if there is any light in the ashpan. Also what serial number is your furnace? Maybe they fixed the problem on mine before they shipped it. Also is it just the tundra or is it the heatmax people are having trouble with.



The tundra/heatmax model number game is simply so retailers don't have to honor any price match guarantees. Both units are the same.

See if every sheet metal screw is stripped when you try to install the filter kit. Every screw on mine was overtightened and I had to use a knife to pry the screws out so they wouldn't simply spin. The last thread was completely gone on every one of my screws. I can post a picture later if you anyone doesn't understand what I mean.


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## djkost

I checked my screws on the blower. The ones that attach the shield to the furnace came out and are not stripped. The other ones that hold the sheet metal together are stripped. Are these the ones you are talking about cloud it.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> I checked my screws on the blower. The ones that attach the shield to the furnace came out and are not stripped. The other ones that hold the sheet metal together are stripped. Are these the ones you are talking about cloud it.



Yes, all the sheet metal screws are stripped. I'm not sure what you mean about the shield.


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## trx250r87

Reading this after starting a roaring fire gives me a really crappy feeling! I just emptied my ash pan yesterday, so its clean, but I just opened the door and sure enough, I could feel plenty of air flowing out the ash pan door opening! WTF!

What are everyones front and flu temps? I have a magnetic (Rutland) gauge on the heat exchanger door that never reads higher than 300*F, and an internal flu probe in double wall black that never passes 400*F. I'm use to my old Vogelzang Norseman 2500 where front temps would reach 400*F - 500*F and flu temps would reach 800*F internally (about 24" above rear connector).

I have the fan set on the lowest setting and rarely does it stay on for more than 15 minutes at a time. My chimney is straight up other than 90* out the back, @27' tall, and I have a straight shot without any dampers of any sort. I have not measured my draft, but is seems to burn pretty well with front damper closed after about 20-30 minutes of wide open warm up.

PS- half my screws are stripped and very difficult to remove as well.

Eric


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## djkost

The screws that hold the filter box to the furnace are fine. The screws that hold the filter box together are strippe but the only way I could see the screws holding in that thin metal would be sort of clips so the screws had something to grab.
.


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## flotek

Well They are not threaded up to the heads they are not stripped they just dobt lock down so what I did was on loose ones I add a small thin washer and then they " grab" mine doesn't leak much air around ash door itself but I won't be using that large ash pan now that's for sure I don't want any chance of dust blowing into my ducts in fact after reading all this I think ill use this furnace for the season and just bite the bullet and get a caddy from a local dealer . I like the features of the unit but don't like the nutty shortcuts to save a buck .. I guess in retrospect There is a reason the caddy costs twice as much


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> Well They are not threaded up to the heads they are not stripped they just dobt lock down so what I did was on loose ones I add a small thin washer and then they " grab" mine doesn't leak much air around ash door itself but I won't be using that large ash pan now that's for sure I don't want any chance of dust blowing into my ducts in fact after reading all this I think ill use this furnace for the season and just bite the bullet and get a caddy from a local dealer . I like the features of the unit but don't like the nutty shortcuts to save a buck .. I guess in retrospect There is a reason the caddy costs twice as much



This is what I was thinking about doing as well but at the caddy price point I might as well get a kumma vaporfire and get even better efficiency. That and the fact that there isn't a PSG dealer anywhere near me and I can't even order one online.

I don't know of any other product that is sold that you can't buy online unless the distributor is local to you. I'm sure there is something but not one that I know of.

I was wanting the furnace to be fixed but they said in writing that it can't be fixed. All the ductwork will have to be redone if I change furnaces too. It really sucks.


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## laynes69

Obviously the ashpan is different, but the only other differences that I know of is a cast iron heat exchanger door, a c-cast baffle and our tubes are cut different (removal with a cotter pin). I do know our tubes glow cherry red every year and they are as straight as the day made. That and a larger plenum opening. In reality if the ashpan was fixed, I don't see the difference in price. There's not that much difference. I will say efficiency wise vs the Kuuma, they both run in the same temperature range on flue temps. They both operate with no smoke once up to temp, the difference is the combustion process is automated on the Kuuma. In the end it makes for a cleaner furnace, but I doubt there's a substantial difference in wood usage between the two. They both are very efficient. As far as price, I understand the Kuuma is a very well built furnace, and the combustion results are impressive, but not everyone can cough up 5,000 dollars after shipping. I'm lucky, I have a very nice furnace that I have maybe 1,500 into.


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## djkost

Is there anyway that they can fix the ashpan? Its hard to believe they would keep selling the furnace after knowing about this problem. Surely they must of known about it months ago and continued selling them.


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## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> I've known about this for some time but promised to keep quiet about it in hopes of a resolution. Was promised a new furnace once a fix was in place but a month later they went back on their word and changed it to giving me $300 bucks or I could take it back to where I got it from and get a full refund.


What???? You knew about this since September and you said nothing?? Asking you to keep quiet about this amounts to a corporate cover up. How in your right mind do you think it is ok not to warn other people of this potentially deadly safety hazard. When i realized what was going on it took me less then an hour to get on this forum and spread the word. I thought that is what sites like this was for. I asked you what this issues were with this furnace directly on the forum and in a pm and you ignored them. instead you sat back and did nothing in hopes of special treatment of a new furnace. if you ask me your just as bad as SBI in this case. coming to this forum and still posting and watching others purchase this furnace and subject there family to CO poisoning is mind blowing and you should be ashamed of yourself.


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## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> Cloud IT, before you wage all out war on SBI, how 'bout waiting long enough to see how they handle some of these other customers now. It's possible that they have copped an attitude toward you personally or that who you have been dealing with just stinks at their job. Either way is not good customer service, but it is _possible_, at least at this point, that yours is an isolated incident as far as how they have handled your problems. Not pushing the big *RED* button for a few more days won't hurt, give them a chance to respond to these other guys first, see what happens, then proceed accordingly.




after ripping cloud it a new one this is one area i will back him. Dont push the big red button? He complained about this in September and lasted this long. He gave them much more rope then i would have. I just found out about this and my hand in on the button. that have a matter of days with me. I already have contacts with the attorney general and the state fire marshal. I also have no problem spending 2x the amount of money that i did on this furnace on a lawyer. This problem subjected my family to the effect of CO poisoning and i dont take that matter lightly. I know things get overlooked and that is as far as my understanding goes. Now it is time to fix this problem before the end of the week or i am taking action at every angle that i can. Do you realize that the medics took my 4 year old and 12 month old to the hospital to be checked for CO poisoning and found to have slightly low O2 levels. Thank god i have 4 CO detectors through out the house all hard wired together or else this may have had a different ending. Sorry if this sounds to aggressive to some or if cloud it does not like my previous post but i could care less. I get VERY angry when the safety of my kids are put in jeopardy and will AGGRESSIVELY go after ANY one that had a part in that. This is also aggravated by the fact that i gave up a perfectly good Drolet HT2000 and spent thousands of dollars on this furnace and duct work to improve the air quality for my 4 year old due to allergies. that is pointless now that i know the house is now full of fine ash dust and dangerous CO.


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## spadjen

trx250r87 said:


> Reading this after starting a roaring fire gives me a really crappy feeling! I just emptied my ash pan yesterday, so its clean, but I just opened the door and sure enough, I could feel plenty of air flowing out the ash pan door opening! WTF!
> 
> What are everyones front and flu temps? I have a magnetic (Rutland) gauge on the heat exchanger door that never reads higher than 300*F, and an internal flu probe in double wall black that never passes 400*F. I'm use to my old Vogelzang Norseman 2500 where front temps would reach 400*F - 500*F and flu temps would reach 800*F internally (about 24" above rear connector).
> 
> I have the fan set on the lowest setting and rarely does it stay on for more than 15 minutes at a time. My chimney is straight up other than 90* out the back, @27' tall, and I have a straight shot without any dampers of any sort. I have not measured my draft, but is seems to burn pretty well with front damper closed after about 20-30 minutes of wide open warm up.
> 
> PS- half my screws are stripped and very difficult to remove as well.
> 
> Eric


your flue temps are normal. i have same gauge on the front and probe in the stove pipe and i am getting the same


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## A.S.Woodchucker

I was ready to buy one of these as soon as this thread started! Wow all that for a $1500 price tag. well I thought I would wait a year and see how it holds up....Glad I did. I did however point a good friend into the direction to buy one, now I have to make a phone call and warn him or just tell him flat out DO NOT USE THE ASHPAN PERIOD. Shame on anyone for not letting people know of this problem....Cloud it or SBI .....


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## djkost

Mine is still on the pallet. I ddon't need the ashpan but they could have saved more money since they knew about the problem the ashpan caused if they just took it out and sealed the door. My problem is I hadhad to special order the furnace and iI'm not going to take the 25 percent restocking fee to return it. I will be calling them today. They can send a truck and check and pick it up if they don't resolve this.


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## Cloud IT

spadjen said:


> What???? You knew about this since September and you said nothing?? Asking you to keep quiet about this amounts to a corporate cover up. How in your right mind do you think it is ok not to warn other people of this potentially deadly safety hazard. When i realized what was going on it took me less then an hour to get on this forum and spread the word. I thought that is what sites like this was for. I asked you what this issues were with this furnace directly on the forum and in a pm and you ignored them. instead you sat back and did nothing in hopes of special treatment of a new furnace. if you ask me your just as bad as SBI in this case. coming to this forum and still posting and watching others purchase this furnace and subject there family to CO poisoning is mind blowing and you should be ashamed of yourself.



I thought there was no way they would design the air jacket into the ash pan area and that I had an isolated event. I was waiting on the fix for the blower mount and was first told there was no way to make a bracket and that because it would be changing the airflow of the system, they would have to recertify it and it would take some time.

When I saw your post I realized that my ash pan wasn't an isolated event as they lead me to believe.


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## Cloud IT

laynes69 said:


> Obviously the ashpan is different, but the only other differences that I know of is a cast iron heat exchanger door, a c-cast baffle and our tubes are cut different (removal with a cotter pin). I do know our tubes glow cherry red every year and they are as straight as the day made. That and a larger plenum opening. In reality if the ashpan was fixed, I don't see the difference in price. There's not that much difference. I will say efficiency wise vs the Kuuma, they both run in the same temperature range on flue temps. They both operate with no smoke once up to temp, the difference is the combustion process is automated on the Kuuma. In the end it makes for a cleaner furnace, but I doubt there's a substantial difference in wood usage between the two. They both are very efficient. As far as price, I understand the Kuuma is a very well built furnace, and the combustion results are impressive, but not everyone can cough up 5,000 dollars after shipping. I'm lucky, I have a very nice furnace that I have maybe 1,500 into.



How did you get a PSG Caddy/1950 for $1500?

There are many more differences between the two. The Caddy is a different animal and is a well designed furnace. You keep saying that the blowers are the same, but according to the online documentation, they are not. Either you work for SBI and don't want to say so or you didn't look at the links I gave you previously showing that the Heatmax/Tundra come with a 1/4 HP blower and the Caddy has a 1/3 HP blower.

If I could get a Caddy for $1500 I would get one today. SBI thought they could cut corners and totally butchered the design that PSG spent years perfecting. How would you feel about your furnace if you couldn't remove the burn tubes to replace the baffle board? How would you feel if it spread fine ash throughout your home? How would you feel if your 3 year old daughters room was the longest run and stayed the coldest because you couldn't build any static pressure due to the design flaws of the furnace?

I won't even be able to touch spadjen's level of frustration with this furnace. Thank God my kid was never in danger and that she doesn't have allergies. I have allergies but that simply doesn't compare.


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## laynes69

I bought our furnace when usstove discontinued the line. It was made by PSG, just rebadged. I bought the furnace for 1999, then I received a 600 dollar tax rebate. I didn't receive all the parts from the store I purchased it from and in the end they gave me a 200 dollar credit. I don't work for SBI, I work in a research facility. While I agree they cut corners, it's half the price of a Caddy. Fyrebug clearly stated some things were changed to lower the price point. I didn't realize they didn't enclose the ashpan, and like I've stated many times it was a poor decision on their part. 

Do I have ash throughout my home, yes I do. I'm not always careful removing them and I tend to make a mess. I'm also surrounded by hundreds of acres of farmland in a very rural area, it's impossible to not have dust unless I invested in Hepa system, which I won't do. Also I've had a portion of my lung removed, I know all too much about lung problems. I'm prone to pneumonia and I've had my lungs collapse multiple times in my life.

Things like a broken baffle happen, the C-cast baffle of the Caddy is a much meatier baffle and also higher in cost. How much I don't know. Also the tube design you showed is used in many stoves. Screws can also be stripped, it happens. The issue I see is that ash pan , which could have costed someone their life, I'd be pissed also if that was me.

I realize the blowers are different, but as far as static pressure is concerned, your feeding two 8" outlets into a complete duct system. Your not going to have enough flow no matter how big the blower is. My heat register in my bedroom goes thru about 60' of duct before it enters the room, and there's no problems with heat.
Our plenum is large, unlike the 2-8" openings.

Don't flame me. I agree that the ashpan design is poor, but the rest of the things that are being compared from one unit to the next, there's a difference in price for a reason. Even then the twist and lock design in the tubes are used in other stoves, the vermiculite baffles are also used in many other stoves. If the ashpan was enclosed, I don't see where it's a bad furnace. Just a poor decision on the company's part. The firebox design which I assume is the same design as the Caddy is bulletproof. Even then the design has changed on the Caddy from my design.


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## Cloud IT

I didn't even realize the baffle was different in the Caddy. Isn't that considered part of the firebox? I'm not sure how it couldn't be considered part of the firebox considering that it is the top part. Another misleading act by SBI in marketing the heatmax/tundra as having the same firebox as the Caddy IMO.

Do you have a picture of the C-cast baffle in your furnace? I'm willing to put money on that the original PSG design is not only more sturdy but equates to more complete combustion/better gasification.

Please don't confuse the intent of my words as flaming you. I simply pointed out to you that the blowers were different and you kept posting that they were the same. I'm glad you have taken the time to review the documentation and recant your position so that others reading this will get the correct info.

I'll agree that 2-8" openings won't move the volume of air a full plenum will. However, the fact that the blower isn't even bolted directly to the air jacket on the furnace and that most of the air escapes through the ash door are much bigger factors in limiting airflow than the size of the ducts. 

The fact that another site member has confirmed my same issue with the blower should prove what I am saying. You opinion is valuable but simply speculation due to the fact that you don't have the same furnace as we do.


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## Cloud IT

Also, is your baffle made of vermiculite or ceramic fiber board?


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## laynes69

Cloud IT said:


> I didn't even realize the baffle was different in the Caddy. Isn't that considered part of the firebox? I'm not sure how it couldn't be considered part of the firebox considering that it is the top part. Another misleading act by SBI in marketing the heatmax/tundra as having the same firebox as the Caddy IMO.
> 
> Do you have a picture of the C-cast baffle in your furnace? I'm willing to put money on that the original PSG design is not only more sturdy but equates to more complete combustion/better gasification.
> 
> Please don't confuse the intent of my words as flaming you. I simply pointed out to you that the blowers were different and you kept posting that they were the same. I'm glad you have taken the time to review the documentation and recant your position so that others reading this will get the correct info.
> 
> I'll agree that 2-8" openings won't move the volume of air a full plenum will. However, the fact that the blower isn't even bolted directly to the air jacket on the furnace and that most of the air escapes through the ash door are much bigger factors in limiting airflow than the size of the ducts.
> 
> The fact that another site member has confirmed my same issue with the blower should prove what I am saying. You opinion is valuable but simply speculation due to the fact that you don't have the same furnace as we do.



The baffle has nothing to do with the firebox, when I say firebox it's the steel portion. It specifies in the manual the baffle is vermiculite, what's misleading about that? Either one function just the same, just one is more expensive than the other. My baffle is an inch and a half thick. The original design was stainless steel with a blanket, which was changed out to c-cast on the caddy. Of course it's stronger, it also cost more.

My blower isn't bolted to my furnace at the division either, it's bolted to the floor of my cold air return. I do have a gap and the only thing around that gap is some foil from the insulation. Also you keep stating airleaks around the ashpan cover, I have them around the loading door, ashpan cover, heat exchanger etc. The front isn't airtight, just like my old furnace wasn't airtight either. It doesn't hinder or hurt the function of the furnace, and in all reality keeps the front of the furnace cooler so I don't get burned. That big blower can overcome some loss, but it's limited on 2-8" supply's. I won't purchase a furnace unless I know the blower size and it's plenum opening size. I know that 2-8" ducts aren't enough to heat our home. I tore out and re-ducted our entire home.

Speculation goes both ways, you don't own a Caddy. Besides the ash pan issue, you seem upset because you don't have the quality of a Caddy. There's pricing for a reason, just why A Kuuma is 4500, and a Daka is 1,000. For 1500 on the Tundra, you get a large blower, a glass door, a fully insulated firebox with a stainless secondary burn setup, and an insulated baffle plus a large heat exchanger. That's quite an upgrade from a basic furnace, that costs almost the same price.

Unfortunately the ashpan issue has cause for concern, and those dealing with it currently have reason to be upset. It's really a shame, the furnace has potential.


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## laynes69

Thousands of stoves out there have vermiculite baffles in them. I would take a vermiculite baffle any day over steel. It won't warp, and it's insulation properties are ideal for combustion. Yes eventually it could wear, and it's more fragile, but it's a very common material that's used. You talk like its a bad thing, it's not. You just can't ram a poker into it or throw wood against it.


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## Cloud IT

The top of the "firebox" has nothing to do with the "firebox"? Ok sure...

What is misleading is Fyrebug stating to you on March 21st in this thread "Laynes... This is basically the Caddy firebox. Same heat exchanger. same firebox. Different blower & plenum hookup. Also, no option for oil or electrical. We've increased the size of the ash drawer that you see at the bottom. Also smaller than the Caddy." Fyrebug is a known rep for the company.

I keep mentioning the air leaks from the ash pan door because there is a gap all around the ash pan area that connects to the jacket around the furnace and when the blower kicks on it blows air out the front of the ash pan. At this point I don't think you can comprehend what I am saying because you don't have the same furnace.

Please point out to me where I have speculated anything about the Caddy.

Please point me to where I can get a tundra/heatmax for $1500. I paid $1800 + tax + shipping and it was the absolute cheapest I could get it for.


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## Cloud IT

laynes69 said:


> Thousands of stoves out there have vermiculite baffles in them. I would take a vermiculite baffle any day over steel. It won't warp, and it's insulation properties are ideal for combustion. Yes eventually it could wear, and it's more fragile, but it's a very common material that's used. You talk like its a bad thing, it's not. You just can't ram a poker into it or throw wood against it.




I didn't say it was bad. We were told that the firebox was the same as the Caddy, it isn't. 

However, they used cheap steel secondary tubes in the heatmax that warp so you can't remove them when you need to replace the fragile, mine arrived broken, vermiculite baffle.

Only you would turn that into a positive.

You keep stating things that simply aren't true and error in favor of the SBI. I question why you have such a crusade to paint a picture that the heatmax/tundra is the same thing as the Caddy. Hopefully people reading this will be able to see that and realize that you must have some sort of secondary agenda. I just want my furnace to perform as advertised and not kill my family in the process.


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## laynes69

Anyway you look at things, I could care less. I'm happy with what I have and have no problems with my furnace. I'm not standing up for SBI, like I say I have no connection to them whatsoever. 

Whenever purchasing something like this, you should do some research. I spoke with users across the country with my furnace before I made the decision. I saved for 3 years to purchase it. The firebox in the Tundra is the same as the Caddy, I believe that. The fact that maybe design has changed on the tubes, I have no clue, nor does it matter to me. I knew the baffle was different in their literature. I won't post anymore on here, I don't own a Drolet Tundra.

In the end hopefully those who have purchased a tundra can get theirs fixed or replaced. I can't see a large corporation letting something like this slide, but then again who knows.


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## Cloud IT

spec·u·la·tion
_noun_

the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
See Layne's comment above "The firebox in the Tundra is the same as the Caddy" when he owns a 1950 hotblast.
Readers can draw their own conclusion. I'm done here. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the furnace.


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## flotek

Yeah not telling us was pretty rotten .. Peoples lives are at risk and you wait to see if you can benefit and hold out for hopes of your own neck to get paid .I have a 3 yr old and 14 yr old . We have lots of smoke detectors but no co detectors ( till now I just installed some) I ran it for a good month totally oblivious to this and dumped ash several times into the drawer over that time . Thankfully we are all okay and didn't experience any physical effects of it. . How is knowing this and Not saying anything about it to warn others of your findings any better than what sbi Is doing. ? Your worse than they are because you knew it is a flaw ..anyone using the ash drawer for other than a dump and empty shelf is running themselves at risk aside from the obvious concern the furnace is not too bad if ran a certain way . If there is any good to be said for this it made me aware of need for co alarms not just fire / smoke alarms. .woodburners should have both . The effects of co can stay in the body for. 8 hours . Some people who bought this furnace may never wake up if they ran it like a traditional furnace would be used. That's like seeing a child play on the tracks while a train roars ahead toward his path in the distance and you just walk on by whistling going about your business


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## Cloud IT

SBI lead me to believe that i simply had a defective unit and I didn't want to lead others to believe it was a design flaw when I didn't think it was. As soon as someone else complained about the same issue I confirmed I had the same issue.

Honestly I never even thought about someone putting hot coals in the ash pan and the CO from them burning circulating throughout the house. I thought it was an isolated instance and no more than an inconvenience. I'm sorry it was simply ignorance on my part.


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## djkost

I emailed the store where I bought mine and they are going to contact sci about this issue. Will inform people on this site when I hear something. Also tried to call sci and could not get though to them. Anyone speak to them today?


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## trx250r87

I emailed the company and received a reply in less than 24 hours stating that this is not normal and that they wanted photos. 

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk


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## Cloud IT

trx250r87 said:


> I emailed the company and received a reply in less than 24 hours stating that this is not normal and that they wanted photos.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk



That's exactly what they told me. Bunch of liars.


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## stihly dan

Sounds like a large recall is in order. CO is nothing to take lightly, can't see it or smell it. If I bought one I would return it, if they missed that what else was over looked. If I bought a used one I would weld that ash drop hole closed permanently. Take no chances. Guess that's why they cost less than a quality wood stove. Hmmm.


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## spadjen

it is hard to believe this was something overlooked. Especially when the manual states do not operate with ash pan removed or it could damage the unit. why would it say something like this. what damage could possible occur by running a wood stove worth the ash pan removed. unless it was connected to the fire box or the air plenum in this case. since it is written in the manual it seems to me this would have been something they knew about before being sold to the public. but thats just speculation on my part. It makes me what to get a passport, go to canada, had have a few words with some people.


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## Mlaw22

Ahhhh crap!!!! I've been on vaca and just got back and got a message from a friend about these issues. Just finished reading the rants. Dammit!! I hope they will fix the problems and compensate spadjen for the crap he went through.


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## brenndatomu

Cloud ITs words in black, mine added in red...


Cloud IT said:


> ... if you think the blower being mounted like the attached photo is "inconsequential" in the big picture of static pressure then you are flat out wrong. I was referring to what you said about air leaking from the front of the ash drawer and the furnace seams. You're right, that gap is _not _inconsequential.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Third, I'm not waging all out war against anyone. Really? Threatening to make sure that your "Tundra/Heatmax furnaces are junk and dangerous" blog (or whatever) comes up in an internet search before any manufacturer info sounds like war drums to me. Just saying...
> I've made tons of positive comments in this thread about this furnace. Not lately
> It has great potential Yup, still does, sounds like they definitely need to tie up some serious loose ends though...
> but as the SBI rep told me, they simply cut too many corners in the development and went too far with reducing cost. And probably shoved'em out the door too soon without enough R n D
> Fourth, I've had repeated issues that go weeks without getting a reply. Pitiful.
> Their customer service is bad, like really bad. My standards are probably a bit higher than most because I expect a similar type of experience that I provide for my customers. SBI's CS isn't even remotely close. Fifth, I was told that I would get a prototype replacement furnace to test to see if the issues were fully resolved. The "fix" wasn't supposed to be ready until Jan It's not January yet
> and I started complaining about these issues and made contact with SBI in September. So you want a hurry up patch to fix their hurry up mistake? I would think it would take a bit of time to get a remedy like this through all the necessary channels, especially in a large corporation.
> Their promise became a lie right before Christmas and I was told there was no fix for the ash pan gap and that I could get a bracket to fix the blower gap Maybe ya pizzed 'em off
> You guys speak as if you are affiliated with SBI in some way. Yeah, I'm a _way_ deep uncover rep for them, that's why I have a Yukon furnace and a Vogelzang stove.
> I have no such affiliation and that gives me the liberty to speak openly about the furnace defects.


I have no affiliation with SBI, don't even know anybody who does. 
OK, look, I'm just a fellow wood burner who found this furnace interesting right from the beginning. Somebody was finally gonna make a modern, efficient, clean burn wood furnace that is only $5-800 (read: affordable) more than the China made smoke dragon crap that is so prevalent on the market. So yeah, I jumped in this thread with questions right from the beginning because I have family that I thought may have been interested in one. Heck, had I not installed my Yukon last year, I may have been first in line for a Tunda/Heatmax my own self. I feel for ya Cloud and all the rest of ya's too, this could have easily been me or my family. I'd be mad too. 
I wasn't trying to "rip anybody a new one" before, simply encouraging you to wait a few more days to see how SBI does for the rest of these guys. Life has taught me that patience often pays off. SBI has a decent enough reputation, I find it hard to believe that they will ignore these problems, especially the CO issue! Serious crap there! 
Although, sitting here typing, I just realized that my Vogelzang stove has a totally unsealed ash drawer, as do many other free standing stoves. I know the Tundra furnace blower adds a twist here, but hey, plenty of stoves have blowers, and most stoves are sitting right in your living space. Why no CO problems there?
Anyways, I'm gonna sit out on this thread as far as the current issues go as I have no skin in the game and I'm not here to stir up any trouble. Good luck guys!
Oh, and one last thing...
Please point me to where I can get a tundra/heatmax for $1500. I paid $1800 + tax + shipping and it was the absolute cheapest I could get it for. Here ya go Cloud...


 I know you said $1500, this one is sub $1500, sorry.


----------



## Cloud IT

spadjen said:


> it is hard to believe this was something overlooked. Especially when the manual states do not operate with ash pan removed or it could damage the unit. why would it say something like this. what damage could possible occur by running a wood stove worth the ash pan removed. unless it was connected to the fire box or the air plenum in this case. since it is written in the manual it seems to me this would have been something they knew about before being sold to the public. but thats just speculation on my part. It makes me what to get a passport, go to canada, had have a few words with some people.



I never even noticed that. This means that they KNEW about this issue before they wrote the manual. If you have ash pan open all the air will exit via the ash pan and you won't be able to cool off the firebox properly. It's gotta be why there are 2 bolts on the freaking ash pan!

I think the only question is if it was ignorance or corporate greed.

BTW that image of the 1444.99 price doesn't say where it is but I probably called them and they don't ship.


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## djkost

I called and spoke to them. They said they would ship it to me and the cost would be 275.00 to ship it and they are in Mich.


----------



## Steve NW WI

Just wondering, have any of you guys with these filed a report with the CPSC? I think if it's as described, it's a prime candidate for a recall:

https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx

On a side note, I wonder if some of this might have been part of the reason for Fyrebug's leaving SBI? I bet he's happy to not have to be the front man for this fiasco. He was always a stand up guy in my dealings with him, and part of the reason I bought a HT2000 instead of an NC30 last year.


----------



## laynes69

Steve NW WI said:


> On a side note, I wonder if some of this might have been part of the reason for Fyrebug's leaving SBI? I bet he's happy to not have to be the front man for this fiasco. He was always a stand up guy in my dealings with him, and part of the reason I bought a HT2000 instead of an NC30 last year.



My thoughts also. He always dealt with us if we had any issues, as well as multiple people on hearth. A recall should be the least they could do.


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## lampmfg

Seeing these design problems is very unfortunate. Anyone that really knows my dad understands the #1 reason he spent all of these years designing the Kuuma Vapor-Fire the way he did was SAFETY!! Burning wood can be dangerous and nothing is more important than your family's safety. I understand why some would want to save $'s when purchasing a furnace but when you actually think about the value of someone's health and life it doesn't make much sense. 

I will tell you that there is currently very little mark up at all on our Kuuma Vapor-Fire furnaces. So if you do the math you can understand the quality difference in materials used. Granted we probably don't receive the best pricing when comparing a few hundred versus thousands annually but it's not probably not enough to justify that gap.

As far as customer service that really a joke and I feel for anyone dealing with it. I like to deal with companies who provide the service I would expect when any questions or issues arise. At this time of the year there isn't a weekend that goes by when my dad isn't talking to a new owner about their set-up and getting everything running correctly. I will say that as we have grown and expanded nationally the past few years there is so many people who don't initially set-up their furnaces correctly (detailed instruction manual is included for a reason) and I can't imagine how upset some would be if my dad wasn't so patient and accessible to get things up and running.


----------



## NSMaple1

Holy crap. I was keeping tabs on this thing, and recommending it for people to check out. Things seem to have changed a bit - hopefully fixes get made & people get looked after.


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## A.S.Woodchucker

the last time I was in Family Farm and Home (Peru Indiana) they had them on Managers special for $1529 I think. and someone on here had a pic at a FFH for $1444 yes that is under $1500. sorry no pics for you non believers, only my word. The lady at the register said the special would probably last till March 2014. as far as the problem goes as long as you don't use the ash pan from the start they are a pretty efficient furnace correct? My dad has a Norseman 2500 he bought at menards 3-4 yrs ago and the welds at the corners of the door have cracked already, and he paid $1200. so as stated before WHEN YOU BUY QUALITY YOU ONLY CRY ONCE!!!!! I do feel for you guys that were unaware of this problem and purchased it unknowing. just imagine the good old days before computer or AS... a lot of people would have never known Or never Woke UP.


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## MI_Habitat

IMO, the quick *fix* from SBI would be to send people a new owners manual telling them to not leave ashes in the ash pan (presuming that it doesn't already!).

People always want things cheaper and cheaper, and well, this is what you get. Use the ash plug and always empty ash from the ash pan.

Another $300 for an ash grate, sealed ash area and a gasket on the ash door would have been money well spent, but all the majority of consumers look at is the price tag. Wish the trend would reverse and people would save up money for quality products, instead of buying the cheapest and complaining about how they deserved more.


----------



## spadjen

MI_Habitat said:


> IMO, the quick *fix* from SBI would be to send people a new owners manual telling them to not leave ashes in the ash pan (presuming that it doesn't already!).
> 
> People always want things cheaper and cheaper, and well, this is what you get. Use the ash plug and always empty ash from the ash pan.
> 
> Another $300 for an ash grate, sealed ash area and a gasket on the ash door would have been money well spent, but all the majority of consumers look at is the price tag. Wish the trend would reverse and people would save up money for quality products, instead of buying the cheapest and complaining about how they deserved more.



you are kidding me right? first let me say you are not the only one to make a comment like this so this is directed at thoes that make this type of comment. Yes i would like to buy the best thing out there but who are you to assume you know everyone's situation. It took me a while to save for this one. i dont make much money so i do need to shop around and watch my wallet. you have no clue why i bought this or why i decided to switch to a wood furnace from a wood stove. I did alot of research on not just the cost but the company, the efficiency, and product class. if i wanted cheaper i would have went to home depot or tractor supply and gotten an inefficient wood furnace there for $700 less. I bought this since it was efficient and i have had drolet stoves before. I would assume cost savings to be in bells and whistles or parts that may not last as long and the higher production levels of the company? Why does saving money mean sacrificing safety? so i buy a ford focus and not a BMW and i should expect it to kill me? WTF are you thinking. I know plenty of people that bought a toyata and spent more money on it just to send them down the highway at over a 100 mph. What do you have to say to them genius? I am surprised at the ability of some dumb individuals like your self to operate a key board. Nice of you to place blame on me since i wanted "something cheep" and i am responsible for almost killing my family. You dont know the hours i spent in front of the computer researching wood furnaces. I even called dealers, the company and even an owner. But i guess when they try to cover it up and tell others not to say anything i would have never have found anything anyway. But yep...I guess this is what happens when people just look at the price. I know a place you can stick your ash pan.


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## spadjen

lampmfg said:


> Seeing these design problems is very unfortunate. Anyone that really knows my dad understands the #1 reason he spent all of these years designing the Kuuma Vapor-Fire the way he did was SAFETY!! Burning wood can be dangerous and nothing is more important than your family's safety. I understand why some would want to save $'s when purchasing a furnace but when you actually think about the value of someone's health and life it doesn't make much sense.
> 
> I will tell you that there is currently very little mark up at all on our Kuuma Vapor-Fire furnaces. So if you do the math you can understand the quality difference in materials used. Granted we probably don't receive the best pricing when comparing a few hundred versus thousands annually but it's not probably not enough to justify that gap.
> 
> As far as customer service that really a joke and I feel for anyone dealing with it. I like to deal with companies who provide the service I would expect when any questions or issues arise. At this time of the year there isn't a weekend that goes by when my dad isn't talking to a new owner about their set-up and getting everything running correctly. I will say that as we have grown and expanded nationally the past few years there is so many people who don't initially set-up their furnaces correctly (detailed instruction manual is included for a reason) and I can't imagine how upset some would be if my dad wasn't so patient and accessible to get things up and running.


see my post above. would have loved to buy your furnace. I did actually check them out. but i just cant spend 3x the amount. I am not saying they are not worth it or that i wont spend that....its that i cant. I know you would loose the family typ feel but i wish there was a way a company like yours could go into high production into some box stores and flood the market with a good product. that would certainly help to lower cost and help those that want a furnace like yours to be within there reach.


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## spadjen

Steve NW WI said:


> Just wondering, have any of you guys with these filed a report with the CPSC? I think if it's as described, it's a prime candidate for a recall:
> 
> https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx
> 
> On a side note, I wonder if some of this might have been part of the reason for Fyrebug's leaving SBI? I bet he's happy to not have to be the front man for this fiasco. He was always a stand up guy in my dealings with him, and part of the reason I bought a HT2000 instead of an NC30 last year.


thanks for the link. i will follow up there. I talked to the state fire marshal on the 31st and they are sending a mechanical inspector over.


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## spadjen

trx250r87 said:


> I emailed the company and received a reply in less than 24 hours stating that this is not normal and that they wanted photos.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk


when i talked to them they told me they are open but the engineering and related departments are off until next week. they had almost 2 weeks off for the holiday and basicly shut down the part of the company that would have a serious responce to this. i guess they will walk in to a mess on monday.


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## Mlaw22

MI_Habitat said:


> IMO, the quick *fix* from SBI would be to send people a new owners manual telling them to not leave ashes in the ash pan (presuming that it doesn't already!).
> 
> People always want things cheaper and cheaper, and well, this is what you get. Use the ash plug and always empty ash from the ash pan.
> 
> Another $300 for an ash grate, sealed ash area and a gasket on the ash door would have been money well spent, but all the majority of consumers look at is the price tag. Wish the trend would reverse and people would save up money for quality products, instead of buying the cheapest and complaining about how they deserved more.



That just blew my mind! Are you implying we bought this solely on cost? It was a factor yes but we don't deserve to have a stove sold to us that can kill our family! In all the research I did no where did it say; this can kill you because you are a cheap ass. Don't think I would have purchased it. I havnt used the ash pan. I just scoop them out. It just freaks me out a bit.


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## MI_Habitat

spadjen said:


> you are kidding me right? first let me say you are not the only one to make a comment like this so this is directed at thoes that make this type of comment. Yes i would like to buy the best thing out there but who are you to assume you know everyone's situation. It took me a while to save for this one. i dont make much money so i do need to shop around and watch my wallet. you have no clue why i bought this or why i decided to switch to a wood furnace from a wood stove. I did alot of research on not just the cost but the company, the efficiency, and product class. if i wanted cheaper i would have went to home depot or tractor supply and gotten an inefficient wood furnace there for $700 less. I bought this since it was efficient and i have had drolet stoves before. I would *assume* cost savings to be in bells and whistles or parts that may not last as long and the higher production levels of the company?


I never said I knew everyone's situation. If a stove fits the budget, buy a stove. If a furnace fits, then buy a furnace. I've actively followed the threads for this furnace both on here and another notable heart site. Everyone kept trying to identify the price difference justification through pictures and brief inspection and decreed for the most part that this new furnace offering was the best choice based on price. What happens when people "assume"? You were right to some extent, with the new one the bell/whistle of letting ashes sit in the ash pan is a difference.


> Why does saving money mean sacrificing safety? so i buy a ford focus and not a BMW and i should expect it to kill me? WTF are you thinking. I know plenty of people that bought a toyata and spent more money on it just to send them down the highway at over a 100 mph. What do you have to say to them genius? I am surprised at the ability of some dumb individuals like your self to operate a key board. Nice of you to place blame on me since i wanted "something cheep" and i am responsible for almost killing my family. You dont know the hours i spent in front of the computer researching wood furnaces. I even called dealers, the company and even an owner. But i guess when they try to cover it up and tell others not to say anything i would have never have found anything anyway. But yep...I guess this is what happens when people just look at the price. I know a place you can stick your ash pan.


Any wood furnace/stove can kill you if you let CO occur while leaving the coals sit out. For anyone owning this furnace, use the plug for the combustion chamber and empty the ash pan after removing ashes from the firebox. It seems as simple as that. Instead people come on here to complain about how it should have been designed like a Caddy with regards to ash removal and demand that the manufacture redesign the product they already purchased! 


Mlaw22 said:


> That just blew my mind! Are you implying we bought this solely on cost? It was a factor yes but we don't deserve to have a stove sold to us that can kill our family! In all the research I did no where did it say; this can kill you because you are a cheap ass. Don't think I would have purchased it. I havnt used the ash pan. I just scoop them out. It just freaks me out a bit.


I'm implying that most people buy them based on cost. Same reason many good tools have been replaced by junk made overseas. Price is the decision maker over all factors for most. As for the rest, based on my understanding, if you use it as it was designed, it'll be fine. If you try to store ashes in the pan after clean out, you would be putting your family at risk (as you also would if you're not putting those ashes into a metal, sealed container prior to disposal).


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## spadjen

MI_Habitat said:


> I never said I knew everyone's situation. If a stove fits the budget, buy a stove. If a furnace fits, then buy a furnace. I've actively followed the threads for this furnace both on here and another notable heart site. Everyone kept trying to identify the price difference justification through pictures and brief inspection and decreed for the most part that this new furnace offering was the best choice based on price. What happens when people "assume"? You were right to some extent, with the new one the bell/whistle of letting ashes sit in the ash pan is a difference.
> 
> Any wood furnace/stove can kill you if you let CO occur while leaving the coals sit out. For anyone owning this furnace, use the plug for the combustion chamber and empty the ash pan after removing ashes from the firebox. It seems as simple as that. Instead people come on here to complain about how it should have been designed like a Caddy with regards to ash removal and demand that the manufacture redesign the product they already purchased!
> 
> I'm implying that most people buy them based on cost. Same reason many good tools have been replaced by junk made overseas. Price is the decision maker over all factors for most. As for the rest, based on my understanding, if you use it as it was designed, it'll be fine. If you try to store ashes in the pan after clean out, you would be putting your family at risk (as you also would if you're not putting those ashes into a metal, sealed container prior to disposal).



according to the fire marshal ash in the pan of a wood stove will not cause significant amounts of co and is safe to do. ash in a pan with forced combustion air is the problem and is a no no.

if a furnace fits? idk what your talking about there. a furnace did fit and was called for. 

Using it as it was designed? did you even read the manual. IT was marketed as having an extra large ash pan so removal did not have to be after every cleaning. in fact states remove regularly.

I am not putting it in a metal sealed container? Guess your assumption is right. when i remove ash from the pan they go into a cylinder block lined ash pit inspected by the fire department.

Do you even own this furnace? If you dont know what your talking about just get off the site or at least this forum. You are corrupting people mind with garbage and wasting peoples time.


Guess freedom of speech applies to everyone. even a dumb A#S like you.


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## NSMaple1

*Instead people come on here to complain about how it should have been designed like a Caddy with regards to ash removal and demand that the manufacture redesign the product they already purchased! *

I think people have every right to complain, if when a product is used as it is designed and marketed to be used, it can kill you.


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## Mlaw22

Maybe we should have a group hug?


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## spadjen

Mlaw22 said:


> Maybe we should have a group hug?


Still like the ash pan up the ..... idea . But I can be an ass according to my gf.


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## stihly dan

Price obviously matters as you told kuuma you wish they could make there product cheaper. But regardless of price, no unit should be sold that could cause harm when operating it properly. One would think with the umpteen million regulations in the US that these units would of received some sort of safety testing before being aloud for mass sales.


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## flotek

I emailed sbi concerning all this but they never responded back . We shall see ....


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## trx250r87

Have any owners of the Tundra/Heat Max installed the furnace without using a thermostat? If so, what are your methods of burning? Seeing that the damper is either fully open or filly closed, it has been a challenge to keep my fan running for more than 15 minutes at a time and don't seem to get as much heat throughout the house as I would like. Is the secret to heat larger loads of wood? I usually don't fill the firebox past half way, which is about 3-4 medium sized pieces. 

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk


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## djkost

I haven't hooked mine up yet but someone one here should be able to help both of us TRX. Does the thermostate keep the draft door open partially or does it just open it and close it?


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## Mlaw22

trx250r87 said:


> Have any owners of the Tundra/Heat Max installed the furnace without using a thermostat? If so, what are your methods of burning? Seeing that the damper is either fully open or filly closed, it has been a challenge to keep my fan running for more than 15 minutes at a time and don't seem to get as much heat throughout the house as I would like. Is the secret to heat larger loads of wood? I usually don't fill the firebox past half way, which is about 3-4 medium sized pieces.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk


I have and it sucks. I would have to wait about 30 to 40 before closing it down and constantly monitor it. The therm helped a lot. And yes I throw in as much as possible.


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## Mlaw22

J


djkost said:


> I haven't hooked mine up yet but someone one here should be able to help both of us TRX. Does the thermostate keep the draft door open partially or does it just open it and close it?


just open and close


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## Cloud IT

Get a thermostat. It's one of the best features of the furnace. I have a NEST controlling both it and my heat pump. I can use my phone to open and close it like a remote.


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## trx250r87

How far from the furnace is your thermostat djkost? What if you have to gain 5 degrees and the furnace is at full throttle for an extended period of time? What does it take for these to overheat?

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk


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## djkost

I think I will install the thermostats about 20 ft or so fromm the furnace. It will be 55 inches off the floor. Don't sure what it takes tto overheat it. I do know I have thermometers for my stack and attach one to the front of my stove on my furnace I'm replacing and will have them on this one also.


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## lampmfg

Cloud IT said:


> Get a thermostat. It's one of the best features of the furnace. I have a NEST controlling both it and my heat pump. I can use my phone to open and close it like a remote.


I'm torn between the ecobee and nest but my next thermostat will definitely be a smart one. I love the phone and tablet options!!


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## Cloud IT

lampmfg said:


> I'm torn between the ecobee and nest but my next thermostat will definitely be a smart one. I love the phone and tablet options!!



Can you control a Kuuma Vaporfire with a thermostat?


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## lampmfg

You can currently control the blower but not the computer. yet

When burning wood it really needs to be set-up correctly to prevent over firing or you're going to end up with a lot of creosote. It will be interesting to see what happen this year if and when the EPA regulations for wood furnaces begin. After already going through strict testing, I guarantee many of these companies won't pass with there current designs and will be put out of business.


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## lampmfg

spadjen said:


> when i talked to them they told me they are open but the engineering and related departments are off until next week. they had almost 2 weeks off for the holiday and basicly shut down the part of the company that would have a serious responce to this. i guess they will walk in to a mess on monday.



Must be nice... My dad was even at the shop on Christmas. Just got the following e-mail yesterday.

Daryl,
The stove is working really well. I moved the damper to the vertical pipe and stack every other row of wood ( in the firebox) offset to make up for the shorter length and burn time is really good. The stove enters the idle mode now and stays there for quite a while.
In your manual at the bottom of page 9 there is a box that says caution follow the manufacturers instructions which I assumed to be Field Controls instructions which show the horizontal placement as acceptable for a wood burner and that is where we should have followed your manufacturer instructions instead.
Since moving the damper and loading the wood offset our house has stayed a consistent 69 degrees running on the low setting with the thermostat set on low which is perfect for us. Thanks for your help in getting it dialed in and if you ever need a reference let me know and I will be happy to provide one.
Thanks again!


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## lampmfg

spadjen said:


> What???? You knew about this since September and you said nothing?? Asking you to keep quiet about this amounts to a corporate cover up. How in your right mind do you think it is ok not to warn other people of this potentially deadly safety hazard. When i realized what was going on it took me less then an hour to get on this forum and spread the word. I thought that is what sites like this was for. I asked you what this issues were with this furnace directly on the forum and in a pm and you ignored them. instead you sat back and did nothing in hopes of special treatment of a new furnace. if you ask me your just as bad as SBI in this case. coming to this forum and still posting and watching others purchase this furnace and subject there family to CO poisoning is mind blowing and you should be ashamed of yourself.



The EPA is who really should be embarrassed!! Considering that there is NO EPA certification for furnaces in the US and I have pointed this out to them on multiple occasions and to which they have agreed. However, they still allow them to market the furnace as EPA certified all over the place without any repercussions.


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## djkost

I received an email from SCI about the furnace and this is the reply I got from them.

The furnace is certified and tested without having any problem. You should make sure to close properly the ash drawer when you use it because it can cause leak and that the reason why it is specified.


Thanks

SBI

Mine will be hooked up Saturday. It's going to be real cold here.


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## flotek

I got a similar response from them when I questioned their ash drawer design . It's not a bad unit .. but you better run it right and I'd swap the snap switch for an adjustable fan switch .They need to at least correct the literature and let people know not to use the ash drawer unless you plan to immediately dump it after wards. ! Dollar for dollar its a great deal IMHO I may have bought a caddy though seeing how our local dealer sells em so cheap at 2600 with the blower


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> I received an email from SCI about the furnace and this is the reply I got from them.
> 
> The furnace is certified and tested without having any problem. You should make sure to close properly the ash drawer when you use it because it can cause leak and that the reason why it is specified.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> SBI
> 
> Mine will be hooked up Saturday. It's going to be real cold here.



when did you guys send them the email? what email address did you use and was the rep identified in the email? I am wondering if this is just a customer service rep responding to you. I have gotten similar emails about something unrelated along time ago. something that seemed generic. I called and talked to one of the tech's early in the week that told me he was the only tech on until next week. The R&D and engineering department was not in until next week. Customer service was on a limited staff but in. So there should be no one there that could really have commented on the issue with any knowledge. Email you want to be using would be [email protected] . It would prob help move things along if everyone with the issue sent an email to them with pictures to that address. maybe it would draw more attention .


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## Cloud IT

I think you meant [email protected]


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## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> I think you meant [email protected]


just corrected...thanks. 

i studder


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## djkost

Yes, the rep did give his name. I just fired mine up and am burning the paint off, blower kicked on about 10 times and I don't seem to have air pushing out the ashpan but I have it locked down. Seems to work good. When the gas gets burnt off it just looks great. It was about 10 below and my garage is 72. Stack temp with probe was as high as 450f. My chimney draft was .05 on the manometer. Might have to add a foot of supervent to get it to .06 but it is dead still here very little wind. Happy so far.


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## laynes69

Your draft at .05" is fine.


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## spadjen

djkI st said:


> Yes, the rep did give his name. I just fired mine up and am burning the paint off, blower kicked on about 10 times and I don't seem to have air pushing out the ashpan but I have it locked down. Seems to work good. When the gas gets burnt off it just looks great. It was about 10 below and my garage is 72. Stack temp with probe was as high as 450f. My chimney draft was .05 on the manometer. Might have to add a foot of supervent to get it to .06 but it is dead still here very little wind. Happy so far.


.05 is what i have. Air will not come out the ash door unless you open it. Its not an issue if leaking its that the chamber is connected. Rep gave his name? Not much information there but if you are happy with his responce then that works. Just trying to help you get a better reply from the company.


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## djkost

I dont have his name handy but the first email came from customer service and he said he would foward my email to the tech service. I will look at the email addrress. I dont open the ashpan when I have a fire going. Right now just tring to run it according to the book and information i get from guys on this site.


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## djkost

this is the email I got and it did have the tec at sci international email address. I believe it came from tech service. Guys name was Pierre.
"The furnace is certified and tested without having any problem. You should make sure to close properly the ash drawer when you use it because it can cause leak and that the reason why it is specified."
Thanks

SBI
It seems to work good for me so far.


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## flotek

Gillese is the tech who has responded to me .. He says same deal . I guess just run it and not use the ash drawer and a few minor seal issues around outer air jacket and blower ( high temp furnace rtv ) works great still a good deal and worthy of purchase just don't expect sbi to do much for support


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## djkost

The book said that even with thermostat hooked up i should be able to over ride it with the switch to shut or open thee draft. I tried an it wont let me. I have a old round thermosat installed. Anyone that can help. Thanks


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## flotek

Its a bit deceptive in that it will only over ride one way .. For instance if the air flap is down because the thermo is satisfied . You can hit the open switch and it should come up however if the air flap is already up because the thermostat wants more heat you can't switch it down to close off the flap to drop down


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## flotek

Arctic winds are brutal today I got minus 14 out and terrible winds
And the new drolet is treating us right its 76 and toasty inside . ...Can't be too bad a unit if it can do a 90 degree difference in temperature in a 1970"s 2000sq ft house with bad windows. Normally I set it for. 72 but just for fun I decided to ramp it up and see what she's made of


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## spadjen

flotek said:


> Arctic winds are brutal today I got minus 14 out and terrible winds
> And the new drolet is treating us right its 76 and toasty inside . ...Can't be too bad a unit if it can do a 90 degree difference in temperature in a 1970"s 2000sq ft house with bad windows. Normally I set it for. 72 but just for fun I decided to ramp it up and see what she's made of





flotek said:


> Arctic winds are brutal today I got minus 14 out and terrible winds
> And the new drolet is treating us right its 76 and toasty inside . ...Can't be too bad a unit if it can do a 90 degree difference in temperature in a 1970"s 2000sq ft house with bad windows. Normally I set it for. 72 but just for fun I decided to ramp it up and see what she's made of


Dont know what you meant by that? but no one was claiming that this stove does not heat a house well. But the stove does have other issues that needs to be corrected. has some great potential. We just go over a cold spell too. not as cold as you...lol but around -5. it would keep our house over 70 no problem other then feeding the stove. we would have to feed the stove every 5-6 hours or so if we were just maintaining. just wondering how often you had to fill yours when doing the same. obviously we used quite a bit of wood when we were trying to go from 60 to 72. basically fill it then fill it again in about 2 hours but it would be 75 by then. i do know if your trying to see what it can do and not concerned about throwing wood at it and running the damper wide open then watch out. this thing can put some serious heat out. got the house to 85 and it was over 180 coming out the vents. so yeah....other then the ash draw / co problem this stove is running well.


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## spadjen

flotek said:


> Gillese is the tech who has responded to me .. He says same deal . I guess just run it and not use the ash drawer and a few minor seal issues around outer air jacket and blower ( high temp furnace rtv ) works great still a good deal and worthy of purchase just don't expect sbi to do much for support


i do agree with what your saying in part. you could just not use the ash pan and seal up the rest and i would prob do the same. guess my biggest problem is the lack of notice to the customer about this. if you were lucky enough to catch this before using the ash pan your better off. once you put ash in the pan and in gets circulated around the air jacket then you will have the ash dust problem. who knows how hard that is to clean out of the air jacket or any ceramic blanket that may be in there. But i hope others are not so quick (including yourself) to dismiss SBI from taking care of this or writing off there support. companies should be held accountable by there customers to stand behind there product.


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## spadjen

[quote="djkost, post: 4631066, member: 64076" I dont open the ashpan when I have a fire going. Right now just tring to run it according to the book and information i get from guys on this site.[/quote]

I dont think you quite understand the problem here. no one said to operate it with the draw open. i said as a test open the ash pan draw when the blower is running and see if air comes out. if so the ash pan and the air jacket are CONNECTED . but the email you got from the company confirmed that when they told you there would be a leak. this can case a C/O problem and air quality problem. If your trying to "run it according to the book" then you dont need to empty the ash pan every time. I am here to tell you that you do and why. please dont put ashes in your pan and run it. running the ash pan with the door closed is not going to help you.


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## spadjen

lampmfg said:


> The EPA is who really should be embarrassed!! Considering that there is NO EPA certification for furnaces in the US and I have pointed this out to them on multiple occasions and to which they have agreed. However, they still allow them to market the furnace as EPA certified all over the place without any repercussions.


yeah well i could care less about the EPA. but that comes from my overwhelming love and confidence of the government. Who knows why or can trust why they do the things they do. I dont think the the EPA set out to come up with regulations to help me save money burning wood (even though it may be a by product of what they are trying to accomplish ) . Who knows who they have in there pocket or who they are in bed with. As far as accountability...well they decided who they go after and it sometimes makes no sense. but yes....it does hurt there credibility by not going after people like that. I wont go on bashing the government here since this not what the forum is about. Dont want to boar others with my whacked out views on things. I will just email myself about it so that way obama can read it.


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## flotek

I'd say Don't use the ash drawer at all just use the long shovel they give you it works great only takes a minute . I totally agree sbi needs to step up and notify the users of this dilemma or better yet alter the design ! As far as loading all I have that's seasoned good enough is hardwood slabs . no thick splits to work with for me at least not this heat season. . Mine is great on wood use way less than i expected. ..I load at 6 in morning and come home at 4 in evening . I get an honest 10 hours in a load if I just set thermostat to. 72 and pack it with slabs *my house is usually within one degree of that when I come home. And I have a nice deep coal bed from there . I imagine I could regularly see easily 12 hrs once I put actual seasoned oak or maple splits loaded in . Man. You must have high heat loss or maybe some flue issue 5 hrs seems really low in your case but there's a lot variables and heat demand insulation in the house ect to consider too and I'd assume Your probably running their patented "bake the paint off the stove " fan switch too


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## djkost

Have a question about duct work. I did like the book said and am using 2 holes one on the left and one on the right. Looking from behind the furnace. The right one is 8 inch for 20 ft then reduced to 6 inch for about 1 foot then into a 6x6 rigister. There are 2 elbows on this run. The next run is short, it is about 6 ft of 8 inch round and into the room. The return is just the air filter kit, it draws from the big room that has the short run going to it. I notice that the left run or short run, the vent pipe is a lot hotter.when the fan kicks in it blows threw both ducts. I did turn the fan speed up one. Will to much fan speed hurt the furnace? I would think if it was to fast it would cool the pot off to quickly. I did a stactic test before and at the furnace it was .03. I turned the fan up but didn't take a ttest yet. Any help thanks.


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## blades

Your short run is going to have a lot more output than the longer just because of back pressure from the length , reductions, and where terminated. So to balance you would need a damper on the short to equalize. Not any different than any other furnace when equalizing the flow rate between branches.


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## djkost

Blades, do you know if running the fan at a higher speed will cause a problem?


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> Its a bit deceptive in that it will only over ride one way .. For instance if the air flap is down because the thermo is satisfied . You can hit the open switch and it should come up however if the air flap is already up because the thermostat wants more heat you can't switch it down to close off the flap to drop down



This is false. It works both ways when properly installed.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> Blades, do you know if running the fan at a higher speed will cause a problem?



You are not going to be able to get a high static pressure because the blower isn't connected to the back of the furnace. The output from the blower is simply pointing to a hole in the back of the furnace. There is no seal and when you try to blow more air through the furnace it simply escapes out the back.


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## Cloud IT

Has anyone tried to remove their secondary burn tubes after using the furnace?


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## djkost

Cloudit, I ran a test with my dryer manometer before putting on the duct pipes. I had .03. I turned up the motor speed up one. My question is if there is to much air flow how does that affect the furnace? Seem like it is blowing a lot of air. Also the left hole is a lot warmer then the right when to touch them. The reason I turned up the motor wasn't because of any long run in duct pipe but because one duct is blowing into a big room. The furnace aalso sits in this room and draws the return air from it. Any help. Thanks.


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## Cloud IT

I have my blower on the highest setting and it works fine. Making the static pressure higher will be harder on the blower and will make it consume more electric. I need the higher speed to compensate for the lack of seal in the back of the furnace. 8" duct is only rated at 400 cfm.

What are you trying to accomplish exactly?


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> Have a question about duct work. I did like the book said and am using 2 holes one on the left and one on the right. Looking from behind the furnace. The right one is 8 inch for 20 ft then reduced to 6 inch for about 1 foot then into a 6x6 rigister. There are 2 elbows on this run. The next run is short, it is about 6 ft of 8 inch round and into the room. The return is just the air filter kit, it draws from the big room that has the short run going to it. I notice that the left run or short run, the vent pipe is a lot hotter.when the fan kicks in it blows threw both ducts. I did turn the fan speed up one. Will to much fan speed hurt the furnace? I would think if it was to fast it would cool the pot off to quickly. I did a stactic test before and at the furnace it was .03. I turned the fan up





djkost said:


> Cloudit, I ran a test with my dryer manometer before putting on the duct pipes. I had .03. I turned up the motor speed up one. My question is if there is to much air flow how does that affect the furnace? Seem like it is blowing a lot of air. Also the left hole is a lot warmer then the right when to touch them. The reason I turned up the motor wasn't because of any long run in duct pipe but because one duct is blowing into a big room. The furnace aalso sits in this room and draws the return air from it. Any help. Thanks.




I get the same temperature difference with my short vs long duct runs. You can put balancing dampers in or close down some of your registers like i did. I used a heat gun to determine the temperature difference and closed down the hotter ones. even before that it was only a 15-20 degree difference but felt like it was more. 

As far as your static pressure I am getting almost the same at .02 which is way under what the manual calls for which is at .20 . Your static pressure is too low. If your furnace is like mine you will get almost the same reading from the lowest setting to the highest with only a .01 difference. that tells you that your system is no building static pressure. If you close down almost all or all your registers and put your fan speed on high you more then likely will still be way under what the manual calls for. This is due in part of the ash pan problem as well as the blower gap problem and probably a few others that we cant see. basically the air jacket is poorly sealed everywhere ( like the ash pan...yep had to say it again) . so your question about running it on a higher setting has 2 parts. first you will not do any damage to the blower since you have no static pressure. 2nd you will have more air flow ( which is debatable since there is so many leaks ) which causes more air flow over the fire box. this can cool your fire box down more then on a lower setting leading to a faster cycling of the fan. one way to check the cooling of the fire box would be to check your stack temperature and see how much drop you get on average between your lower setting and higher. if its not too much and your fan is not kicking on and off you should be fine.


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## spadjen

flotek said:


> I'd say Don't use the ash drawer at all just use the long shovel they give you it works great only takes a minute . I totally agree sbi needs to step up and notify the users of this dilemma or better yet alter the design ! As far as loading all I have that's seasoned good enough is hardwood slabs . no thick splits to work with for me at least not this heat season. . Mine is great on wood use way less than i expected. ..I load at 6 in morning and come home at 4 in evening . I get an honest 10 hours in a load if I just set thermostat to. 72 and pack it with slabs *my house is usually within one degree of that when I come home. And I have a nice deep coal bed from there . I imagine I could regularly see easily 12 hrs once I put actual seasoned oak or maple splits loaded in . Man. You must have high heat loss or maybe some flue issue 5 hrs seems really low in your case but there's a lot variables and heat demand insulation in the house ect to consider too and I'd assume Your probably running their patented "bake the paint off the stove " fan switch too


My figures i gave you was during extream weather like yours. not what i get on average. I was asking how often you filled it during that extreme weather you had. you cant be telling me that you get 10+ hours at -15 with high winds? what did you do....wrap your house in plastic and duct tape?


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## flotek

Well of coarse mileage varies on burns for different folks so does what people consider a " burn time" but in my case I have a job So does my wife I leave for 10 hr periods of time no one is here to feed it ..when I come home its within a degree or two of the setting I left it at . House is wrapped in vinyl siding.  thanksif I just ran it wide open I suppose it would be half that idk that's not something I would normally do . I have my fan speed on the 2 setting I believe that's the factory setting. .. Its fair to say the longer your flap is up the shorter burns so that extreme weather will certainly play a role.if your thermostat is way up . It never got out of teens the other day I set thermo for 71 or 72 I think it was and when I got home at. 4 it was 68 so that's just my situation on a real cold day for my area .. Granted I don't live in Alaska or heat a un insulated barn and I did blow in r49 27 bags of cellulose insulation up in my attic


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## flotek

Cloud IT said:


> This is false. It works both ways when properly installed.


News to me that's how mine works
It's wired from the factory you can't turn the manual switch to shut the flap if the flap is already shut


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## Cloud IT

The manual switch needs to be in the closed position for the thermostat to work. If it's in the open position then it's not open because of the thermostat, it's open because of that switch.

When my thermostat calls for heat it opens the damper and when it's not calling for heat it closes it.


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## djkost

If I'm reading the book right the static pressure should be 0.2 WC. Is there a way to check pressure by jumping the blower motor or does it need to be hot ?


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## djkost

Cloudit, I just bought a thermostat that has a off switch, that way on start up I can control the damper with the switch. Once warm I just turn it to heat and it is controlled by the thermostat.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> Cloudit, I just bought a thermostat that has a off switch, that way on start up I can control the damper with the switch. Once warm I just turn it to heat and it is controlled by the thermostat.



When you turn the thermostat down does the damper flap close?
When you turn the thermostat up does it damper flap open?

If you answered yes to both of these questions then I'm not sure why you need to control it with a switch at all.

If you answered no to either of these questions then your thermostat isn't connected properly. If this is the case let me know and I may be able to help you out.


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> If I'm reading the book right the static pressure should be 0.2 WC. Is there a way to check pressure by jumping the blower motor or does it need to be hot ?


say what?? yeah jump on the blower and hold a torch to it that should help. lol. I think what your trying to ask is there anyway to turn on the blower manually to so you can check static pressure? the answer is yes but it would be much easier for you to do if you just check it when hot. also if your 2 8" rounds feed a plenum you want to take your reading there and not in the 8" round. but serious, cloudit and myself i think answered your questions on static pressure see post # 548, 547, 544. you will never get what the manual calls for with this current design with out some serious mods. They told cloudit they would have a fix by January and he would have a new furnace when they figured it out. they went back on there word on that which tells you that the engineers said...how the hell we fix this? I would imagine they did come up with something but it was not cost productive. Maybe in the next design they will take care of it.


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## Cloud IT

I've noticed that the blower wasn't kicking on with only coals in the firebox and assumed it simply was not getting hot enough. However, last night after I loaded the firebox for the night with a bunch of well cured black locust the fire erupted in a way that can only be described as a chain reaction but the blower didn't kick on to cool the firebox. As the temperature rose so did my concern. My flue temps shot up to 600 deg and it usually stays around 400. The ductwork above the furnace was too hot to touch. I was worried my house was about to catch on fire and was about to rip out my duct work to let the furnace bleed off heat easier. I cycled the power hoping that it would do something and at this point I suspected I had a dead blower. I had already closed the damper and was about to block all the air passages when the blower finally kicked on. It must have cycled ok overnight as the temperature was fine this morning. After I loaded the furnace again this morning I had a repeat of last night only not as bad.

I'm guessing that when they cheapened the design from the caddy that they used the cheapest snap disk that they could find. I'm about to start looking for a replacement and suggest if you have the furnace to do the same if you notice any period where you think the blower should be on and isn't. I should kick on at 120 deg and it simply doesn't do it consistently.

I have multiple videos I can upload to youtube when I get time showing you my experience.


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## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> I've noticed that the blower wasn't kicking on with only coals in the firebox and assumed it simply was not getting hot enough. However, last night after I loaded the firebox for the night with a bunch of well cured black locust the fire erupted in a way that can only be described as a chain reaction but the blower didn't kick on to cool the firebox. As the temperature rose so did my concern. My flue temps shot up to 600 deg and it usually stays around 400. The ductwork above the furnace was too hot to touch. I was worried my house was about to catch on fire and was about to rip out my duct work to let the furnace bleed off heat easier. I cycled the power hoping that it would do something and at this point I suspected I had a dead blower. I had already closed the damper and was about to block all the air passages when the blower finally kicked on. It must have cycled ok overnight as the temperature was fine this morning. After I loaded the furnace again this morning I had a repeat of last night only not as bad.
> 
> I'm guessing that when they cheapened the design from the caddy that they used the cheapest snap disk that they could find. I'm about to start looking for a replacement and suggest if you have the furnace to do the same if you notice any period where you think the blower should be on and isn't. I should kick on at 120 deg and it simply doesn't do it consistently.
> 
> I have multiple videos I can upload to youtube when I get time showing you my experience.


mine does the same thing. almost like there is a delay is the fan kicking in. i just assumed that the snap disk was in an area that takes longer to sense that temperature. it would be interesting to see if you could mount an adjustable one with a high and low setting so you can dial it in to where you want.


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## Cloud IT

I have a quality name brand part ordered and it will be here tomorrow. It adjust from 90-130. I plan to try it at 120 to see how it works because I think the one on the furnace is simply crap. I've seen the blower kick on with minimal coals before and not kick on when it was super hot. It is measured in the air jacket and not the exhaust tho so who knows. Maybe the large gaps around the blower keep it from getting hot somehow. I'll let you all know what happens.


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## spadjen

SBI just contacted me about the ash pan situation. He did acknowledge the manual was not that clear on if the furnace should be operated with the ash pan full. in this case it should never be run with ashes in the pan.....which we all know now. I did explain that the state fire marshal has condemned the furnace due to the fact that a user could operate the furnace in a way that poses a health hazard. There needs to be safety measures in place that are reasonable so an operator could not operate a unit in an unsafe condition. They are working on some sort of retro fit that should be an easy DIY. * They have a few designs and prototype should be done by this Wednesday so they can be fitted and tested. if those test go well they should be ready to be shipped on Friday the 17th. *

I also mentioned the static pressure issue. we tossed around a few ideas and concerns about functionality. my concern is not so much when the blower is on but when the blower is not activated. would the low static pressure have a negative effect on the natural convection? He questioned weather the figures are incorrect and based off same testing guidelines of the PSG which uses different duct work. he is going to have the unit retested and see where those figures should be or if there is any other issues that needs to be resolved

so far it looks as though they are taking action to get things corrected and in order. which is what i expected with this company and why i bought a 2nd stove from them. Now i only hope they follow through and stand behind the product. After the conversation i had it looks like that would be the case. Also looks the issues are being taken care of relatively quick. if i hear back i will keep you guys informed.


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## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> I have a quality name brand part ordered and it will be here tomorrow. It adjust from 90-130. I plan to try it at 120 to see how it works because I think the one on the furnace is simply crap. I've seen the blower kick on with minimal coals before and not kick on when it was super hot. It is measured in the air jacket and not the exhaust tho so who knows. Maybe the large gaps around the blower keep it from getting hot somehow. I'll let you all know what happens.


yeah you will have to let me know. i thought about doing the same thing. pm me the link to the one you ordered unless you want to post that in the forum. Where is the snap disk located? i have not really looked. guessing it is in the electrical box in the back top of the unit?


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## flotek

Cloud IT said:


> I've noticed that the blower wasn't kicking on with only coals in the firebox and assumed it simply was not getting hot enough. However, last night after I loaded the firebox for the night with a bunch of well cured black locust the fire erupted in a way that can only be described as a chain reaction but the blower didn't kick on to cool the firebox. As the temperature rose so did my concern. My flue temps shot up to 600 deg and it usually stays around 400. The ductwork above the furnace was too hot to touch. I was worried my house was about to catch on fire and was about to rip out my duct work to let the furnace bleed off heat easier. I cycled the power hoping that it would do something and at this point I suspected I had a dead blower. I had already closed the damper and was about to block all the air passages when the blower finally kicked on. It must have cycled ok overnight as the temperature was fine this morning. After I loaded the furnace again this morning I had a repeat of last night only not as bad.
> 
> I'm guessing that when they cheapened the design from the caddy that they used the cheapest snap disk that they could find. I'm about to start looking for a replacement and suggest if you have the furnace to do the same if you notice any period where you think the blower should be on and isn't. I should kick on at 120 deg and it simply doesn't do it consistently.
> 
> I have multiple videos I can upload to youtube when I get time showing you my experience.



Funny stuff ..yeah if you remember
I tried to tell you that a dozen pages ago
Guys The factory thermo switch needs replaced the setting isn't right and it could give tons more blower time it should not be kicking off when there's a thick bed of hot coals to heat the air that's like. 2 hours it just sits stagnant and does nothing wasted energy that could heat your home comfortably 
A 110 on. 90 off is a wonderful improvement with the number 2 fan speed setting .
It's not rocket science it doesn't require a degree in thermo dynamics the concept is simple :
If the blower ain't blowin
The house ain't gonna be warm !
However ..your mileage may vary


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## djkost

Flotek where did you get the switch from if you don't mInd sharing. My motor came from the factory set on 3.


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## spadjen

djkost said:


> Flotek where did you get the switch from if you don't mInd sharing. My motor came from the factory set on 3.



No one else answer this...just flotek. Lol. You know you can just ask since there is a bunch of us that could help you . Just saying since i noticed it in a few post. . Dont know if u missed it but the post before that cloudit said he had one on order. You should ask him too.


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## spadjen

flotek said:


> Funny stuff ..yeah if you remember
> I tried to tell you that a dozen pages ago
> Guys The factory thermo switch needs replaced the setting isn't right and it could give tons more blower time it should not be kicking off when there's a thick bed of hot coals to heat the air that's like. 2 hours it just sits stagnant and does nothing wasted energy that could heat your home comfortably
> A 110 on. 90 off is a wonderful improvement with the number 2 fan speed setting .
> It's not rocket science it doesn't require a degree in thermo dynamics the concept is simple :
> If the blower ain't blowin
> The house ain't gonna be warm !
> However ..your mileage may vary




did you already do this mod or something your planning on doing? would like to hear how it is working for those of you that have tried this. I guess i would have 2 concerns about lowing the temperature. Shutting the blower off at lets say 110 would that cause the firebox to cool off to much to retain coals for any length of time which would make reloading harder after being away for a while? the other would be lowing the stack temp to low for too long to cause building up in your stove pipe. But on the other hand shutting off at factory temp may cause a higher temperature that is still low enough to cause creosote over a longer period of time. which way would cause less of an issue? lower temp for shorter time? or higher temp (but still low) over longer period? be interesting to play around with it and see what you guys come up with


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## trx250r87

Page 58 of the Tundra manual shows the electrical schematic.

In* BOLD* is the info right out of the Drolet manual on page 59.

*9.3 Fan control

The fan is activated when the air jacket temperature of the furnace reaches 140 °F and stops when it drops below 120 °F. If the air jacket temperature exceeds 160 °F, the air inlet damper closes and the fan will continues to blow until temperature returns below 120 °F at which point the air inlet control will open again.*

*part# 33 44154 THERMODISC 36T 11L160-40 1 *(used to cut power at 160*F)

*part# 35 VA1150 THERMODISC F-120-10F* (used to turn on fan at 140*F and turn off fan at 120*F)
The factory thermal disc appears to be made by White-Rodgers, but here is some info for Selco thermal snap discs...
http://catalog.selcoproducts.com/vi...4-disc-se-series-airsteam-mount-close-on-rise?

Eric


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## trx250r87

http://www.emersonclimate.com/Documents/White-Rodgers/catalog_06_pages/Cat_06_pg0090.pdf

3f05-1 looks interesting, it's adjustable from 90*-130* with 20* differential. 

Eric


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## stihly dan

That seems high for fan temps. Mine are way lower.


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## trx250r87

How are they lower? Factory snap disc is on at 140*f and off at 120*f. 


Eric


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## Steve NW WI

Flotek wrote this in another thread, I'd like to discuss it here, copy and paste of the quote if it works:



flotek said:


> Its just a 17$ thermo switch and don't make a point to leave ashes or coals in the ash drawer unless you plan to empty them out . not a deal breaker for what you get for your money its safe when ran right and sbi is on top of some of these concerns ..I'm sure if you throw enough wood at a Daka a woodblast or other smoke dragon and adjust it accordingly it could heat your house (just like a 82 ford fairmont can get you to work everyday too but not to efficeintly )but by passing on caddy or drolet or kumma you'd be giving up a secondary reburn btu automated air intake via digital hermostat control a safety shutdown clean burning technology nearly double the burn time and save a lot of firewood in a season but its your time and money
> You can buy something cheap but you'll go through more wood and in a short time your initial savings will be negated



While techically true that it's safe, as long as it isn't operated with ashes in the pan, you can NOT discount the power of stupid people. This is a design flaw that needs to be corrected. While someone that burns their house down from blowing hot ashes through their ductwork is not operating it correctly (assuming the manual is updated to say in no uncertain terms DO NOT OPERATE THIS FURNACE WITH ASHES IN THE ASH DRAWER OR YOU WILL DIE), some chucklehead will do just that, and their home and hopefully not their family will be gone.

The open to air jacket problem isn't a safety hazard, but it's still a design problem. People don't buy furnaces to heat the furnace area, they want the air moved to the places the ductwork goes to. If there's an opening to vent fan pressure to the furnace room, that air isn't going out the ductwork.

Plain and simple, those are design problems, caused by p-poor engineering. I love my Drolet stove, but I can't believe what they're trying to pass off as "normal" here.

I've never been around a Caddy, but I assume from reading here that they share next to nothing in the design other than the firebox itself. I'd not lump them together.

FWIW - I do agree that a good modern furnace will pay for itself in wood savings. This just ain't it in my book. Cheap is cheap, there's a difference between affordable and cheap.


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## spadjen

Did anyone read my post on the end of page 28 about the respince from SBI and the fix for the ash pan ?


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## Steve NW WI

Yes, I did. I'd like to see it before I believe it, though. I'd also like to know that ALL owners are being notified about this, not just the handful that are on AS. Remember - there's a lowest common denominator out there, and the guys that take the time to show the shortcomings on here generally are not those people. 

Lots of companies these days seem to think that product development should be done by paying customers. That's the lazy way out, and a good way to get a bad name.

I don't have a horse in this race, in fact I love my Drolet stove, but if I'd bought one of these, I'd be a very unhappy camper. I honestly hope these issues are in fact fixed, and if they are, I hope SBI sells a million of em.

FWIW, the Tundra manual on their site is dated 27-06-13 and has not been updated to clarify the problem.


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## spadjen

Steve NW WI said:


> Yes, I did. I'd like to see it before I believe it, though. I'd also like to know that ALL owners are being notified about this, not just the handful that are on AS. Remember - there's a lowest common denominator out there, and the guys that take the time to show the shortcomings on here generally are not those people.
> 
> Lots of companies these days seem to think that product development should be done by paying customers. That's the lazy way out, and a good way to get a bad name.
> 
> I don't have a horse in this race, in fact I love my Drolet stove, but if I'd bought one of these, I'd be a very unhappy camper. I honestly hope these issues are in fact fixed, and if they are, I hope SBI sells a million of em.
> 
> FWIW, the Tundra manual on their site is dated 27-06-13 and has not been updated to clarify the problem.


I agree with.....well all of that. Lol Time will tell. I will ask him about letting owners know when he calls me back. Guess this would be why its important to register your product.


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## Photog95

Let me get this straight here. I understand that this is a bad design, and all of that. I will not be buying one until the problem is resolved as well. 

Here is how I burn wood and have done so since as far back as I can remember. Every night when I get home from work the first thing I do is go down and clean the ashes out of the wood stove. I scrape them all down through the grates and into the ash pan. I then remove the ash pan and dump it in a 5 gallon bucket. I then will light a fresh fire. I will burn through the night. Before I leave for work in the morning I will fill it up to keep the house warm. By the time I get home the fire has burnt out and everything is cooled down. I then start over my whole process.

Now using my burning methods it seems as though this design flaw would really not affect me, and I would be perfectly safe using this furnace, correct?


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## flotek

Spadjen it is just an adjustable snap disc with a little dial arm on the back and marked off for settings you just set the arm where you want the limit they are sold at any hvac shop or you can get one on eBay they are about 20 bucks 
I understand your concerns and all that your going to see is a benefit in *my case *I experienced longer blower cycle time and that means more even temperature regulation more heat in general the house and it made use of the coal bed which prior to changing disc out was doing nothing but sitting stagnant .coals last forever and unaffected on mine and that's using dry burning maple slabs .secondary action worked fine and wasn't affected either I use fan speed number 2 . I found its best to seal with high temp around the flue Collar as it blowsaround the jacket directly on the flue pipe further coolingthe stack which is not ideal for draft conditions


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## flotek

Steve nw your correct thatisa factory issue defect that's concerning and needs addressed and can be dangerous if handled and ran wrong however sbi has contacted me and several others who have registered under warranty and are sending several emails out and soundserious about correcting the problem and will offers retrofit kit to remedy it they plan to design the drawer differently in the future so I'm thinking this furnace is still a great setup for the money and for people to still** consider it . I'm telling you after a few things here and there I run mine everyday my carbon testers and smoke alarms never go off and I would hate to go back and be loading more wood more frequently like before and all the headache associated with manual units It's worth a look for anybody in the market for a decent modern furnace . If you want a more refined version you can always get the caddy or if you really have some money under your mattress consider a kumma vapor . Dollar for dollar you can't beat a drolet tundra/ heat max in my opinion . For 1800 bucks you'll never find these modern benefits in another furnace period . Yes there's a few things done that are economical and tweaked butif your budget is buying a cavalier gt your not going to get a corvettes power and styling . There is always some trade offs when cost is half


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## Mlaw22

I email sbi on Thursday. Asked them about the ash drawer, static pressure and my damper not opening without assist. I recieved and email in an hour. Saying they are working on the ash drawer fix and some more questions about my other problems. I emailed back on Friday. Within one hour I got a phone call from a tech to talk about static pressure. Then this morn I got another call from a differnt tech to see if the stove is heating better after I did some changes they told me to do. And to call with any questions. Their costumer service on my end is A+. 

The second tech told me to forget and the .2 wc reading. Said we won't get it because of the 2 eight in ducts. The reason it's in manual is because they pretty much copied it from the caddy. Said I should be more worried about velocity. I think it's mostly my duct work. He said to try closing all my vents just alittle bit throughout the house and get that duct work hotter. In turn it should push hotter air for longer periods of time.


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## trx250r87

OK so I finally received a manometer today (Dwyer Mark II). I set it up and checked my draft and just as I expected, it was too strong, .12" CW. 
The Tundra manual states .04-.06" WC. My chimney flue is about 27' tall and I have 1 90* elbow right at the back of the furnace other than that, straight up through 1st floor and attic. What are my options for reducing draft. Does anyone make a double wall barometric damper for twin wall 6" black pipe (Supervent from Menards).

Eric


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## Whitespider

Wow‼ It's been some time since I checked in on this thread (like, I had to catch up on a dozen pages)... and I gotta' say it again... WOW‼
Not at all tryin' to stir the usual pot... but...
That ash drawer thing is a major, huge F*** UP‼ At no friggin time should there ever even be a chance for ashes (hot or cold) to mix with pressurized circulation air... ever‼ And on the high pressure side no less... upstream from any filter system‼ That ain't a design error... it's a plain and simple F*** UP‼

If I had one, I'd immediately load it up, haul it to wherever is was purchased, and demand every cent of my money back.
There ain't any "fix" that would satisfy or comfort me unless the ash collection area was sealed from pressurized air circulation by welded steel... period‼ 

They should admit the F*** UP and recall every unit for replacement... at zero expense to the customer.
*


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## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> OK so I finally received a manometer today (Dwyer Mark II). I set it up and checked my draft and just as I expected, it was too strong, .12" CW.
> The Tundra manual states .04-.06" WC. My chimney flue is about 27' tall and I have 1 90* elbow right at the back of the furnace other than that, straight up through 1st floor and attic. What are my options for reducing draft. Does anyone make a double wall barometric damper for twin wall 6" black pipe (Supervent from Menards).
> 
> Eric


Just put a double wall tee in the flue pipe, a BD should slide right into it. The pipe ID should be the same as any other...


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## stihly dan

trx250r87 said:


> How are they lower? Factory snap disc is on at 140*f and off at 120*f.
> 
> 
> Eric



I don't have this furnace. Mine comes with adjustable limits. What works best FOR ME is in the cold season 100* on 85 off. On the shoulder season 120* on 105 off. The lower setting gives me more overall heat, and when the fan shuts down the coal bed is used up, still enough to relight, just not a mound sitting there idol. Fan speed or blower temps do not have anything to do with my secondaries or creosote, if the box cools my unit automatically adds more air to keep it at a designed internal temp.


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## Nick

Well I'm glad I read through all of this before I bought one. Chalk it up to providence. I'm interested to hear if they come out with a real solution, or just a way to clarify the instructions.


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## spadjen

where did everyone go? Man its cold outside.

Update:

The fix for the ash pan draw has been in testing and a few changes have been made. Its now and production and should be ready to ship this Friday. I would suggest that you contact drolet to let them know you are in need of the necessary parts. Especially if you have not registered your product. If you have difficulty contacting someone send me a PM and i may be able to give you the direct contact of the person i have been working with and help you out.

Also...as another member has posted.... forget about the Static pressure of the duct work. the "official" word is that the specifications in the manual is based of the duct work of the caddy. Also new specs really cant be done until the ash pan draw is fixed.


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## flotek

They sent me a message and also confirmed the retrofit is about ready . They are on top of it and kept me updated several times in emails and thanked us for bring patient while they sorted out the bugs


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## stihly dan

Hopefully nobody has died while being pateint as they worked out the bugs. Still don't know how they could continue to sell them in stores AFTER they realized they had a FATAL flaw. Bussinus ethics? Actually moral eyhics. That speaks volumes for the whole SBI company.


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## djkost

Yes got the same message. I was told Monday and if it was working then ship this Friday. I also told them about the snap switch and if they were going to change that since I think it should be like on at 140 and off at 110. Haven't heard about that yet. I justjust got in Dec and don't use the ash pan thanks to the guys on this forum. I do like it and when they get these fixed they will have a good furnace. Mine is under warranty so I don'tdo anything to it unless they tell me tto. Tech service is good and they have always got back to me except on the snap switch but iim sure they will.


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## flotek

I just use a shovel to take the ashes out. .i pull up my steel trash can that's almost same height as firebox floor and use the included long reach shovel .. The way I do it is slick it's no big deal for my routine takes less than a minute


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## spadjen

flotek said:


> I just use a shovel to take the ashes out. .i pull up my steel trash can that's almost same height as firebox floor and use the included long reach shovel .. The way I do it is slick it's no big deal for my routine takes less than a minute


yep....that is the way most of us prob do it now. that is not the issue. if it did not have an ash draw at all i would still have bought it. but it not know about this issue caused a safety problem. if you were lucky enough to catch it before you used that ash pan that is great. but if not now you have ash in your air jacket. 

I do have one question. when emptying ash via shovel and bucket do you get ash dust all over the place. it seems like the draft it causing it to blow around every where. It may be that i have the basement door open too? or do i need to let the box cool down more? this is the fist time for me using this method. it seems to be working good or even better then using a pan other then the dust issue.


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## flotek

I do it when I got home after work after the wood is down to a coal bed and I just unplug the unit to shut the blower off . Pull up my steel can and shovel several scoops out and slap the lid back on and hang up shovel and plug the unit back in . This way dust is kept down I also keep a dust mask right handy to wear while doing it . I realize your point about the safety of the drawer for me I don't see a need for a ash drawer anyways besides it's more convienant to dump a steel pail once than handle and dump out a hot ash drawer 5 times over same period of time . It's a no brainer for me. Furnace is working great and saving me a train load of firewood over my Englander so far


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## djkost

I just cleaned mine. Takes a minute and into the pail. No ash unless I go to fast with the shovel, then some get stirred up. Darn shovel they send with works great. Nice flat and works. We have a full blown blizzard going on now and I don't have a barometric damper on. The wind is 35 to 40 outside. Anyone have to much draft with winds this speed. Normal on my manometer was .05 but now probably .08. Anyone burn on windy days?


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## NSMaple1

My 30' chimney normally runs 0.08 - 0.10" when burning with no wind. If I hold my BD closed when burning and the wind is gusting, it can pull 0.3".


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## brenndatomu

spadjen said:


> I do have one question. when emptying ash via shovel and bucket do you get ash dust all over the place.


Do it when the firebox is still warm, open the door wide, hold the bucket close up to the opening, slide the ash off the shovel slowly instead of just dumping it. The warm firebox/warm chimney will have enough draft to suck most of the dust up the flue. Or you could get a




format=500w http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG...nc/EXP=1390813439/**http://www.ashdragon.com/


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## Steve NW WI

That thing looks like a great way to burn the back of my hand on the top of the door opening.

I'm gonna get all Spidey on you and call that a useless gadget.


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## brenndatomu

Yeah, I was thinking about making one of my own, handle on the back...guess it depends on how deep your firebox is though, as far as how much of an issue the handle is.


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## Nick

Does anyone have information as to the nature of the "fix"? It sounds like it might be worth buying one even without the ash-pan fix. Does it really use that much less wood than a conventional wood furnace?


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## Cloud IT

I've been quite busy and haven't had time to check in here for awhile but wanted to really quick to let you guys know something. I've confirmed that a small amount of air does find it's way past the plug for the ashpan and will stoke the fire when the blower is on.

You can confirm by putting ashes around the plug while the fan is running. You will see the air blow the ashes around.

Also, the sealing of the ash pan isn't the biggest issue to the lack of static pressure. That is caused by the fact that the blower isn't even connected to the furnace. It's just aimed at a hole they cut into the back. They are supposed to make a bracket that will allow the blower to actually bolt up to the furnace. It should be easier to build pressure in this config vs the caddy, not harder. The issues mentioned along with the fact that the body of the furnace is simply screwed together and leaks like a sieve is the reason. If the "fixes" SBI produces are satisfactory, I plan on disassembling the entire furnace and reassembling while adding high temperature silicone to seal up the furnace properly.

At this point if anyone is on the fence about this product I would say pass as there are much better options out there. Give SBI a few years to work out the issues unless you are comfortable paying $1800 for a fixer upper.


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## ajr

Cloud in your opinion what is a better option with a similar price point?

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk


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## trx250r87

The problem I am having is that when the fire is nearly out, only a small pile of hot coals, I get a light smell of smoke in the house. This seems isolated to 1 area of the house and I swear that it seems like it comes from my forced air ducts. I wish I had a way to test my theory but this does not happen all the time. Another possibility is that the wind is carrying the smoke towards an outside vent, but I find that hard to believe seeing that all vents are on the West side of the house, the same direction that the wind comes from most of the time.


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## bennersaw

Hi guys, I am in the market for a wood furnace was almost set on the clayton 1602m from ts, and came across this thread. now I am considering this drolet. ts is selling the 1602 for 1599 plus tax, and I found the drolet for just over 2k delivered. Anybody have input/advice on either of these? Thanks


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## brenndatomu

brenndatomu said:


> http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/16/thumbnail/u8ujagym.jpg
> Family Farm & Home sale...just FYI for anybody looking to buy one soon.
> This was posted by a member over on Hearth, he said the tag reads sale price good until sometime in March '14! (Almont MI. store, just in case it is not a chain wide sale)


Just a repost FYI for anybody thinking about a Tundra/Heatmax that is near a FF&H.


ajr said:


> Cloud in your opinion what is a better option with a similar price point?


The closest thing I can think of would be a PSG Mini Caddy at $1000 more.


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## brenndatomu

bennersaw said:


> Hi guys, I am in the market for a wood furnace was almost set on the clayton 1602m from ts, and came across this thread. now I am considering this drolet. ts is selling the 1602 for 1599 plus tax, and I found the drolet for just over 2k delivered. Anybody have input/advice on either of these? Thanks


The Clayton is pretty much a wood guzzling fire-in-a-box smoke dragon type of heater, but it will heat your house. See my previous post for a better Drolet price. The Drolet, will use alot less wood, and not plug up your chimney with creosote as long as you have DRY wood.


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## flotek

Nick said:


> Does anyone have information as to the nature of the "fix"? It sounds like it might be worth buying one even without the ash-pan fix. Does it really use that much less wood than a conventional wood furnace?



It's only been most of one winter but in my case I can easily see It uses much less wood than my Englander .i put hi temp foil tape around the blower cutout and took care of that I applied hi temp sealant around the seams for small jacket leaks which has worked great and my plug seats down fine in the floor of the firebox .my pressure and duct heating does just fine and it's very even after a few simple things were addressed . For my lifestyle and method I don't see a use for the ash pan personally but will put the retrofit kit in it anyways . I'd buy one again .. way longer cleaner burns and less wood seems like a no brainer compared to a smoke dragon of similar price. . But I'm a simple man who understands getting a savings can come at a compromise When I buy a cavalierGt. I don't expect a corvette


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## Cloud IT

ajr said:


> Cloud in your opinion what is a better option with a similar price point?
> 
> Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk



I would spend a little more and get a quality unit. If you can't afford it, keep whatever you have currently and save up.



trx250r87 said:


> The problem I am having is that when the fire is nearly out, only a small pile of hot coals, I get a light smell of smoke in the house. This seems isolated to 1 area of the house and I swear that it seems like it comes from my forced air ducts. I wish I had a way to test my theory but this does not happen all the time. Another possibility is that the wind is carrying the smoke towards an outside vent, but I find that hard to believe seeing that all vents are on the West side of the house, the same direction that the wind comes from most of the time.



You shouldn't have any smoke with only coals left.


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## bennersaw

brenndatomu said:


> See my previous post for a better Drolet price




will they ship? I can't find much about it from thier site


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## bennersaw

so should i not consider the drolet with the problems its having?


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## Cloud IT

bennersaw said:


> so should i not consider the drolet with the problems its having?


I would say hell no but others will feel differently. If you are prepared to make modifications, not use the ash pan, and don't have over 25 feet of duct, it's a good furnace. If you want something to work as intended right out of the crate then this isn't for you.​


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## trx250r87

Bad news = my air intake door motor died. Good news = SBI shipped a new motor with ash pan fix, hopefully today.


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## Cloud IT

trx250r87 said:


> Bad news = my air intake door motor died. Good news = SBI shipped a new motor with ash pan fix, hopefully today.



Most likely because they got the cheapest air intake door motor possible. Glad they are taking care of you. It took them over a month to send me a new baffle board. Let us know when you get your part.


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## flotek

It's a Honeywell unit . I don't think there is a better one produced then Honeywell


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## trx250r87

I agree flotek, I just wonder if it is installed as Honeywell intended?


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## flotek

Sbi just called me had a good 30 minute conversation about the unit and retrofit which is being shipped as we speak. . All new units being made now will have the ash drawer redesigned and fixed . The retro fit will be easy and does not require a welder ..just a hammer . I'm told this will seal off the area and has been tested. I think around the blower there is also a new adapter plate or something 
I'm pleased with how they handled this they are correcting literature as well . Price will remain the same on new models that have the minor changes


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## Cloud IT

flotek said:


> It's a Honeywell unit . I don't think there is a better one produced then Honeywell





trx250r87 said:


> I agree flotek, I just wonder if it is installed as Honeywell intended?



If it's a honeywell unit then it's probably just a random failure.


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## djkost

Got called from SBI today and they are shipping the ash pan fix this Friday. Had a good experience talking to him. Also spoke about the fan snap switch. He informed it was set to those temps so the furnace wouldn't cycle to much. Like I said had a good conversation with him and again like to thank the guys on this forum for bringing the ash pan problem out. I don't use mine but who knows probably would have tried it. Over all I like the tundra and am happy with it.


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## Cloud IT

I cleaned out my heat exchanger today and had a ton of creosote. Anyone else open theirs up yet?


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## trx250r87

Mine has a minimal brown, light, dusty coating. I also just cleaned my 27' flue after a month of burning and I had maybe 1/2 cup of dry buildup. Not bad considering I don't burn as hot as I could.


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## djkost

How much wood do you put in your tundra? What is the lenght and diamiter to get a six hour burn. I have oak and ash. Do you fill it to the top or half? My stack hemos are around 450 until the fan kicks on. Anyone thanks.


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## flotek

djkost said:


> How much wood do you put in your tundra? What is the lenght and diamiter to get a six hour burn. I have oak and ash. Do you fill it to the top or half? My stack hemos are around 450 until the fan kicks on. Anyone thanks.


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## flotek

djkost said:


> How much wood do you put in your tundra? What is the lenght and diamiter to get a six hour burn. I have oak and ash. Do you fill it to the top or half? My stack hemos are around 450 until the fan kicks on. Anyone thanks.



You must be running their factory high temp snap disk is why it does that I'd ditch that run a 110 on and 90 off switch instead and you'll get way more heat and longer burns . Much improved comfort. .. You must realize this designs keeps all the heat in the unit but if your burning less than desirable moisture it's going to keep in all the gunk and creosote too . Only takes 30 seconds to clean the heat exchanger so don't wait around till it's gross and full of crap clean every few days and of coarse good seasoned wood won't even cause it in the first place . You said oak and oak takes an eternity to season correctly for this unit. These are really picky about moisture more so than my other EPA stoves I've ran .
The difference in half seasoned wood most people burn and properly low moisture seasoned wood this unit needs is amazing . You'll get so much more secondary action and so much more overall heat if your burning primo dry wood in it . It's a bit of a burden to need to have such dry fuel but the benefits and operation are well worth it


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## Mlaw22

If I have a few pieces of wood that aren't perfectly seasoned I struggle to heat my house to 70 and for only about 4 hrs. If I fill the box with dry seasoned wood I go up to 72 plus and burn for 6 plus hours. And the snap disk change out is a must. It's been a struggle because I didn't prep well enough this year. When it burns well it rocks. Easly half the amount of wood.


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## trx250r87

I received the ash drawer "fix" today and installed. First off my drawer and drawer receptacle arrived bent. Second, the fix is useless. I get air blowing into the fire box up through the plug hole.


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## flotek

I got my box today but haven't installed it. . It's a ash drawer inside an ash drawer in essence . Mine arrived fine .looks like a good idea for a simple fix but that's yet to be determined till I install it . I'm assuming your basing that assumption on when you jostle or lift on the plug you see a flurry of sparks go up and see light up .id be cautious before you say for sure that it's the blower causing that For certain because any Air introduced up through the plug hole when it's open is fresh air rushing in and will look like it's forced when in reality it's just the separate chambered trapped air being introduced below the fire .from the looks of it theres no way the blower could do that . from a design aspect I don't see how this couldn't seal and fix it . It's a separate sealed up steel sleeve that replaces the ash drawer and gasket and sealing flange


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## flotek

A picture of the new design


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## trx250r87

Flotek, I didn't touch the plug. I simply bypassed the thermostat to force the fan on and placed a few shovel scoops of fine ashes over the plug. The ashes were constantly blown around from the plug area. I guess I can post a YouTube video later tonight.


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## flotek

I'll install mine and see how it does. . Sounds like a plug sealing issue . You gotta hammer the tabs down to seal it maybe the tabs are not far enough hit down on your flange and you get clearance play which makes sense .. just a thought


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## trx250r87

Tabs are pounded as far as they can possibly go.


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## stihly dan

Are there gaskets on both drawers? What seals the drawer with the hole from the plenum area?


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## djkost

Just got mine today, looks like it should work. Where did yours leak air, from the damaged part. Did it still leak after you put the plug in?


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## trx250r87




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## brenndatomu

I guess I'm missing something here. So what's the issue with blower air (pressure) leaking into the firebox? If the chimney is drafting properly, smoke can't go out around the plug. As long as the ash drawer is now sealed from the circulating house air...that was the original issue, correct?
Is this ash plug not he same setup as the Caddy?


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## laynes69

No, the Caddy has a cast iron grate with a 1/4" steel plate over it. That's unless they changed design, but I don't think so. It's about the size of a firebrick.


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## stihly dan

brenndatomu said:


> I guess I'm missing something here. So what's the issue with blower air (pressure) leaking into the firebox? If the chimney is drafting properly, smoke can't go out around the plug. As long as the ash drawer is now sealed from the circulating house air...that was the original issue, correct?
> Is this ash plug not he same setup as the Caddy?



To me this would pose to problems. 1.Could cause an overfire with air being forced into the fire box. 2. If air is leaking in there then it is assumable that ash in the drawer could let co in the supply air. To much of a potential risk for me. I would want my money back and buy a safer proven unit, epa or not.


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## Cloud IT

trx250r87 said:


> Flotek, I didn't touch the plug. I simply humored the thermostat to force the fan on and placed a few shovel scoops of fine ashes over the plug. The ashes were constantly blown around from the plug area. I guess I can post a YouTube video later tonight.



I've seen the same thing and have a video of it as well. I haven't received the "fix" yet but from the looks of it it's not going to do anything at all because there is no seal around the area where the plug goes.

More epic SBI engineering at work it seems. I'm pretty sure I'm going to take mine furnace back and get a vapor fire or a boiler.


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## djkost

In the manual it said on page 34, 5.3 smoke pipe connector should be inspected and reassembled. is this the pipe that connects between the stove and the chimney? Also how do you remove the baffle? Do you have to remove the secondary tubes? Want to clean mine but need help. I know how the baffle slids fowards but how to remove it to clean on top of it. Any help thanks in advance.


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## Cloud IT

djkost said:


> In the manual it said on page 34, 5.3 smoke pipe connector should be inspected and reassembled. is this the pipe that connects between the stove and the chimney? Also how do you remove the baffle? Do you have to remove the secondary tubes? Want to clean mine but need help. I know how the baffle slids fowards but how to remove it to clean on top of it. Any help thanks in advance.



You have to remove your secondary burn tubes to remove the baffle. Mine were warped so bad that they wouldn't come out. I've asked for someone else to try removing theirs to see if they are warped as well but nobody has responded to that request yet.

Try to remove your secondary burn tubes. They should twist and easily slide out. If they twist but don't slide, they are warped like mine are.


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## djkost

Cloudit, do you know what the smoke pipe is located? I will take the tubes out.


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## Cloud IT

I think they mean the chimney pipe that connects to the back of the furnace. When you clean out your heat exchanger, you can slide the baffle forward and push the creosote to the back and down into the firebox. However, you can't do that with the middle pipe as it runs to the chimney.

I've disconnected mine and cleaned out a ton of creosote twice so far this year already. I've discovered that if you fill the firebox with the damper closed it will create a ton of creosote. I've since started letting the fire go out and it get cold in the house before building a new fire.

I really wanted this furnace to be great but it's just turned into nothing but a PITA. I didn't burn much wood at all this year but the cons just aren't worth it when there are other solutions that are even more efficient but have none of the negatives. Some people might not mind dealing with all the constant issues but they are not common.


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## djkost

Cloud it, I cleaned mine out and got very little out of all 3 pipes. After pushing it into the foirebox I took the shop vac to it. Also couldnt glet to my secondary burn pipes the box was still to hot but I did reach in and grab them, they did turn some. Speaking of the smoke pipe it must be the one that we install from the furnace to the chimney cause the pipe on the back ofthe furnace is solid. Right.


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## flotek

If your burning good seasoned wood and it's drafting correctly your not going to accumulate creosote ..it's the same design as a caddy is. Not a design issue . Caddy s Have been out for better part of 7 years ..I have no idea why people would use the drawer anyways it's faster and easier to just scoop it out with a shovel my plug seats down fine even without a fix kit. .its heavy steal it's not going anywhere ..There's no chance that I could imagine of overfire unless the plug is pulled out and laying on the firebox floor lol I'd almost say you'd think the furnace is a piece of crap the way you guys talk I checked mine just now no issues and I know it's sealed in the drawer because I never use and there is no evidence of ashes falling down into after months my carbon tester over the registers senses no issue . One thing I have noticed is It's a great feeling to come home after 10 +hours away to a comfy warm house and the blower still on and a box full of heavy coals when it's 14 outside And everyone else is complaining about propane and fuel oil being 5$ a gallon .. The drolet has paid for itself in no time and I don't have any regrets I think some people think it should walk your dog and make you coffee too I guess . Is there better options maybe .. But not anywhere near that price .. You must realize the unit is 1799 not 5,000$ like kumma vapor ..you can't buy a cavalier gt and expect it to run and handle like a corvette .go ahead and sell the farm to buy a vapor fire ..more power to you , for me i work hard for my money and I want my dollar to stretch so I'll keep that 3,200$ extra I saved for all brand new vinyl windows installed in my house to further my comforts even more


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## Cloud IT

Hey flotek, remove your baffle board and post the picture of it.


----------



## Whitespider

trx250r87 said:


> *...the fix is useless. I get air blowing into the fire box up through the plug hole.*





stihly dan said:


> *I would want my money back...*





Cloud IT said:


> *...pretty sure I'm going to take mine furnace back...*



Pretty sure I'd have got my money back some time ago.
I do feel bad for you guys that bought them though.
*


----------



## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


> You have to remove your secondary burn tubes to remove the baffle. Mine were warped so bad that they wouldn't come out. I've asked for someone else to try removing theirs to see if they are warped as well but nobody has responded to that request yet.
> 
> Try to remove your secondary burn tubes. They should twist and easily slide out. If they twist but don't slide, they are warped like mine are.


i will be trying this soon as my baffle cracked and i have a new one.


----------



## spadjen

can anyone post the instructions or pic of the instructions for the ash pan fix. I must have missed place mine. only thing i am questioning is the gasket and mettle o-ring for the ash plug.


----------



## spadjen

flotek said:


> If your burning good seasoned wood and it's drafting correctly your not going to accumulate creosote ..it's the same design as a caddy is. Not a design issue . Caddy s Have been out for better part of 7 years ..I have no idea why people would use the drawer anyways it's faster and easier to just scoop it out with a shovel my plug seats down fine even without a fix kit. .its heavy steal it's not going anywhere ..There's no chance that I could imagine of overfire unless the plug is pulled out and laying on the firebox floor lol I'd almost say you'd think the furnace is a piece of crap the way you guys talk I checked mine just now no issues and I know it's sealed in the drawer because I never use and there is no evidence of ashes falling down into after months my carbon tester over the registers senses no issue . One thing I have noticed is It's a great feeling to come home after 10 +hours away to a comfy warm house and the blower still on and a box full of heavy coals when it's 14 outside And everyone else is complaining about propane and fuel oil being 5$ a gallon .. The drolet has paid for itself in no time and I don't have any regrets I think some people think it should walk your dog and make you coffee too I guess . Is there better options maybe .. But not anywhere near that price .. You must realize the unit is 1799 not 5,000$ like kumma vapor ..you can't buy a cavalier gt and expect it to run and handle like a corvette .go ahead and sell the farm to buy a vapor fire ..more power to you , for me i work hard for my money and I want my dollar to stretch so I'll keep that 3,200$ extra I saved for all brand new vinyl windows installed in my house to further my comforts even more



carbon tester? if your referencing that you dont have a c/o detection issue then you are correct. the c/o would come from ashes in your pan which you dont use. and yes...$3200 is not worth a better ash pan.


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## laynes69

Your not supposed to remove the tubes when cleaning. Reach in, pull the baffle forward and push anything that's accumulated to the rear of the left and right sides of the heat exchanger and into the firebox, otherwise remove from the front if you don't want to fool with the baffle.

As far as creosote is concerned, if you load the furnace shut the door and walk away your not burning it correctly. You might get away loading on a hot coal bed, but usually you load the furnace, open the damper for 20-30 minutes depending on the load size and wood then set the thermostat. If the heating demand isn't high, then don't load full loads. Any stove or furnace either EPA or non, if you load the firebox and walk away you'll produce creosote. If you want the luxury of load and go, buy a computerized draft controller called the smartstove (I'm considering it at 300.00), or buy a Kuuma.

If your not happy, then get rid of the furnace plain and simple. If you feel your life and family are in danger then don't use it. I have 3 children and if for a single second I felt my children or family was in danger, I wouldn't touch the thing.


----------



## flotek

For spadjen


----------



## djkost

I like my tundra and all I wanted to know was according to the manual your suppose to check the smoke pipe for cracks. I'm not sure where that is. I clean mine by moving the baffle forward, pulling sout from the center pipe and pushing the sout from the 2 others into the box. I clean all then with the shop vac. I only wanted to know how to remove the baffle cause the book said to check for ash on top of it. My fire is started by letting it burn. The stack temp gets up to around 450 internal. the fan kicks on and it drops in temp. Once the room is warmed up and the wood has burnt good I turn the thermostat on to take over. When I add more wood I make sure the new load is burning good then again the thermostat takes over. This works for me but for someone else they will have to get their own setting. Burning instructions are in the book.


----------



## Cloud IT

laynes69 said:


> ...Any stove or furnace either EPA or non, if you load the firebox and walk away you'll produce creosote...


----------



## newyorker

im on a shoe string budget and I was looking at at Englander 28-3500 well I see farm and family has theses on sale for 1444 im handy I can make a few adjustments like the snap disk and sealing the jacket alittle bit better I can just shoval the ashes out and not use the ash pan at all. is this a solid furnace with a few adjustments that will last many years? or would I be better off with a Englander


----------



## spadjen

Cloud IT said:


>



yeah i have done the same thing. thought it was me.


----------



## spadjen

newyorker said:


> im on a shoe string budget and I was looking at at Englander 28-3500 well I see farm and family has theses on sale for 1444 im handy I can make a few adjustments like the snap disk and sealing the jacket alittle bit better I can just shoval the ashes out and not use the ash pan at all. is this a solid furnace with a few adjustments that will last many years? or would I be better off with a Englander



I like it so far. I think most the problem is never by the first version of anything. Its is still relatively new so we will see how it goes as time passes. Other then the issues you mentioned i am happy with it. have 1600 sq feet and heat with only wood. nights get to 15 to -5 and have only used just under 2 1/2 cords. have a few air infiltration problems too that will be taken care of over the summer so that figure will go down.


----------



## newyorker

Thanks for the response would love to here from other as well


----------



## djkost

I just shovel mine out, don't take long. Hopefully they will do a permanent fix on new models. Overall I like mine. I never changed anything on it other then using aluminium tape by the fan to seal it up . I heat my garage and house with it. About 1800-1900 square ft.


----------



## flotek

I've had both the drolet and the Englander . I won't say the Englander was bad in fact for that style of old school furnace it's pretty good compared it's counterparts and it heated our home and kept us warm for half a decade ...however it required a lot of wood and if you didn't pack it up to the baffle with the good stuff and damper it down( here's Where they burn real dirty) your burn time is not that great considering it's size. . It had drastic heat swings .. On low air it Burned dirty ( in fairness the wood quality could be better ) and went through a good portion more than the drolet . It did get hotter too but was an uneven heat and required running downstairs messing with it a lot . The drolet retains coals far far better and never needed much attention other than cleanings of ash and tossing wood in it the Englander often requires it's owner to play Boy Scout and get out kindling matches and fire starters The drolet will heat a 2,000 sq ft house and get several hours longer burns all on a smaller firebox .the air intake is tied into your thermostat so it does it's own thing if house cools down I'd guess a typical guy in the north in an average house would use 6 cords of wood in the Englander furnace and the drolet he'd use around 3.5-4 cords so it's pretty noticeable in usage . The drolet has a better blower quieter and stronger cfm and of coarse has secondary combustion if you have really dry wood you can get some incredible burn times as long as it's not 5 degrees out and windy but that really depends on many variables to say. Although the drolet has a few speed bumps to address (snap switch opening around the blower needs sealed *note new units are redesigned ash drawer ) it's a quality unit compared to box store junk you'd usually see in it's price range . Good welds good materials has some great thought out features ..Canada is not china they know a thing or two about heating appliances . The Englander is heavier and a bit more bulky it's made in Virginia both sbi ( makers of drolet) and Englander offer great customer support in my experiences with both companies . Keep in mind after this year the Englander will likely not be available due to strict EPA regulation requirements so that should be considered in your decision . Parts may get scarce as they are zoned out .also you can get a tax credit on the drolet. Hope that gave you some insight in my experiences with both


----------



## newyorker

Thanks for the insight I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger if shipping isn't ridiculous sounds like a solid hi tech low cost stove


----------



## just tring to stay warm

well after taking 2 days to read this whole thread. i have to make a choice. saturday i am going to go look at a psg caddy wood only. right now i use a drolet ht2000. but we want to centralize our heat throughout the house. with the caddy, blower, and fan limit i can get it for $1677. and the drolet heatmax/tundra i can get it for $1300. I do have a question, with the heatmax, do you have to hook up the cold air return?


----------



## newyorker

Where are you getting a caddy for that price?


----------



## newyorker

Or a tundra for 1300


----------



## brenndatomu

+1 on that! "Smokin" good deals! That's not a mini caddy, is it?
Dang, my local dealer wants $2800 for a Caddy W/O the blower! They _are_ known to be a lil high though...


----------



## Whitespider

just tring to stay warm said:


> *...with the heatmax, do you have to hook up the cold air return?*



Drolet does not state that you have to... but they recommend it, and warn of damage from not using a filter.
A centralized furnace is severely handicapped without a connected return air system... for several reasons that include safety, performance and efficiency.
It is best that any centralized furnace or A/C unit have the return air connected, and depending on local code it may be required.
I find it interesting that Drolet recommends both the return air kit and filter kit (they even warn you not to use the furnace without the filter), yet neither is supplied with the furnace... you have to buy them at additional cost.
*


----------



## spadjen

just tring to stay warm said:


> well after taking 2 days to read this whole thread. i have to make a choice. saturday i am going to go look at a psg caddy wood only. right now i use a drolet ht2000. but we want to centralize our heat throughout the house. with the caddy, blower, and fan limit i can get it for $1677. and the drolet heatmax/tundra i can get it for $1300. I do have a question, with the heatmax, do you have to hook up the cold air return?



where are you getting that for $1300[/quote]


----------



## flotek

I'd love to know where your getting these prices . If you truly can get a caddy with blower at that price you better but 3 or 4 of them lol btw I don't use a cold return at all didn't on my last furnace either in fact no one I know that has a wood furnace has it hooked up this way . It makes it own loop and draws the cool air down stairs to the unit .. For me works like a champ very even heating and fully capable ..The tundra and drolet come with a free filter kit of you order it from the right places and the filter setup if you have to buy it is only 50$ .i change my filter every 10 -15 days keeps dust from getting into motor and of coarse into the ducting too where a lot of clunker box store units just have a blower on the back with no provisions or available kits


----------



## laynes69

just tring to stay warm said:


> well after taking 2 days to read this whole thread. i have to make a choice. saturday i am going to go look at a psg caddy wood only. right now i use a drolet ht2000. but we want to centralize our heat throughout the house. with the caddy, blower, and fan limit i can get it for $1677. and the drolet heatmax/tundra i can get it for $1300. I do have a question, with the heatmax, do you have to hook up the cold air return?



That's quite a deal for a Caddy. Just make sure it's not a discontinued model that doesn't contain the secondary burn system. It shouldn't be, but you never know. If it's only a few hundred more than a Tundra, I'd jump all over it.


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## newyorker

I'm like 45 mins away in the finger lakes would love to find out the dealer your useing


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## Mlaw22

Caddy for 1677?!?! Dang! Fill us in my man!


----------



## stihly dan

flotek said:


> I'd love to know where your getting these prices . If you truly can get a caddy with blower at that price you better but 3 or 4 of them lol btw I don't use a cold return at all didn't on my last furnace either in fact no one I know that has a wood furnace has it hooked up this way . It makes it own loop and draws the cool air down stairs to the unit .. For me works like a champ very even heating and fully capable ..The tundra and drolet come with a free filter kit of you order it from the right places and the filter setup if you have to buy it is only 50$ .i change my filter every 10 -15 days keeps dust from getting into motor and of coarse into the ducting too where a lot of clunker box store units just have a blower on the back with no provisions or available kits



I use a cold air return, so does spidey and I think brendatomu. That's 2 1/2 people now. Sorry B, you have to be 1/2 as I'm not positive you have one.


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## Mlaw22

I'm hooked in too. My basement door would get sucked down the stairs if I didn't!


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## Whitespider

flotek said:


> *...a lot of clunker box store units just have a blower on the back with no provisions or available kits*



Name one "clunker" (wtf)... one add-on furnace with no provision or kit available... name just one.
I'm actually quite surprised you don't have return air connected to your furnace; not connecting it really is a short-cutting, half-azz install... and after all the criticism you've made of my set-up.
I'm curious... have you checked to see if your non-return-air set-up is in compliance with local code??
Just askin'... 'cause if you ain't checked, there's likely a better than 50/50 chance it don't comply.
*


----------



## laynes69

My furnace is tied in also. Our furnace has the return built into the jacket, so it has a return plenum and supply plenum. Otherwise I would be pulling 60 some degree air into the furnace from our basement.


----------



## brenndatomu

stihly dan said:


> I use a cold air return, so does spidey and I think brendatomu. That's 2 1/2 people now. Sorry B, you have to be 1/2 as I'm not positive you have one.


Oh heck yeah brotha! Getting custom plenums made for my complicated/tight clearances duct system was the worst part of my install! I wanted to do it right because I tried heating from the basement with my previous Yukon Big Jack furnace with a half azzed supply side duct only, it didn't work worth_ "sour owl crap"!_ 
Sure hope http://www.arboristsite.com/community/members/just-tring-to-stay-warm.120800/ doesn't just tease n run!


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## Whitespider

brenndatomu , here's your 21-gun-salute for the _"sour owl crap"!_


----------



## Mlaw22

Sour owl crap?!? That's funny **** !


----------



## brenndatomu

Whitespider said:


> brenndatomu , here's your 21-gun-salute for the _"sour owl crap"!_


Thank you sir, it's been a while since I've had one of those!

Mlaw22, to be honest, that's one of spideys signature lines...

I gotta agree with the return air needing to be functional. If you are getting by without it, your system will only work that much better with it. If your system isn't working the best, that very well could be a major part of the issue, not to mention the aforesaid code/safety issues...


----------



## A.S.Woodchucker

put me down for 1 PSG Caddy at the $1700 price tag! wait.... On second thought I will take 2. That's $1500 below what they are getting for them around here!


----------



## flotek

FYI I think a cold air definitely Is the way to go . I just happen to not use it and have no issue but I have a unique split level where it draws air down through an open stairwell ..in my case it works great if I had a different floor plan I'd go through the effort to use it. And run the ducting ..I dump into my plenum and don't use the furnace fan or run a series and when I said I don't know anyone who uses a cold sir on their furnace I was referring to local people I physically see and personally know in my area . Like I said for best possible results I'm sure that would be ideal . For me I get even temps and it pressurized all registers equally . Codes I'm concerned with are clearance codes and combustible issues for safety . Spidey the critical things I said about your setup are not to be argumentative but they pertain to safety because your using one flue for two appliances .. which is absolutely a safety issue and not to codes ..an Englander has no provision for a cold air return box and there are others. ...Concerning the ridiculous prices :There's a place in Ohio selling caddys near me at 2600 plus tax and that is super cheap ..I don't know how you could cut a thousand off that . Name the place your getting these deals at


----------



## Whitespider

flotek said:


> *...an Englander has no provision for a cold air return box and there are others...*



Touché ‼
 OK than, you win round one... let me change the rules in the middle of the game for round two ?? 
Englander says the 28-3500 is to be used as a supplementary add-on only... and there's no instructional provisions in the manual as a stand-alone.
Name one designed to be an add-on *or* a stand-alone central furnace.
*


----------



## flotek

Oh brother ..Off topic much ? So ....to the guy who's buying these furnaces so cheap let us know where your getting them


----------



## reaperman

flotek said:


> FYI I think a cold air definitely Is the way to go . I just happen to not use it and have no issue but I have a unique split level where it draws air down through an open stairwell ..in my case it works great if I had a different floor plan I'd go through the effort to use it. And run the ducting ..I dump into my plenum and don't use the furnace fan or run a series and when I said I don't know anyone who uses a cold sir on their furnace I was referring to local people I physically see and personally know in my area . Like I said for best possible results I'm sure that would be ideal . For me I get even temps and it pressurized all registers equally . Codes I'm concerned with are clearance codes and combustible issues for safety . Spidey the critical things I said about your setup are not to be argumentative but they pertain to safety because your using one flue for two appliances .. which is absolutely a safety issue and not to codes ..an Englander has no provision for a cold air return box and there are others. ...Concerning the ridiculous prices :There's a place in Ohio selling caddys near me at 2600 plus tax and that is super cheap ..I don't know how you could cut a thousand off that . Name the place your getting these deals at



When I first had my wood furnace installed, the cold air return wasnt hooked up by the HVAC guy. He was young and I dont think he had any experience with wood burning furnaces. The furnace worked fine and heated well. But since this was new home construction, I started having issues with the front door of the house frosting up. Ice would build up on the edges to the point the door wouldnt latch closed unless the frost was scrapped off. The builder came out and started snooping around for answers. Negative presssure was suspected. One thing that can happen with neg pressure is carbon monoxide poisoning, nothing to take lightly. I had the cold air return hooked up, and will admit, I see no difference in heating output with or without the return hooked up. Also, I installed a fresh air intake into the mechanical room since I closed it off to the rest of the basement. Problems solved, the hvac dude should have installed a fresh air intake during construction but for some reason didn't. The most important aspect is to eliminate the possibility of CO entering the home. Negative pressure, with the help of the plenum fan constantly drawing air, can draw CO from the chimney, to the open plenum fan, to the registers, please be safe.


----------



## Lambeau Leaper

Hello, I am new to this forum. I would like to purchase and install a Drolet Tundra in my basement.
My concerns are weight. Can fire bricks and doors be removed ect.
Footprint, how to bring down stairs. According to the manual looks like 26 inches wide and 46 inches deep.
Quality of the build of the furnace. I can order locally but no one has a unit that I could inspect here in northern WI.
Price would be $1,800.
Thanks for any help.


----------



## trx250r87

Lambeau Leaper, 
I assume you are looking at Menards? If so, wait for their 11% sale and see if it qualifys for that discount. 

I removed the ash pan, airbox/blower assembly, and door and hauled it down to my basement using an appliance dolly and with 2 people helping me it went pretty smooth. Where exactly in Wisconsin are you located?


----------



## Lambeau Leaper

trx250r87 said:


> Lambeau Leaper,
> I assume you are looking at Menards? If so, wait for their 11% sale and see if it qualifys for that discount.
> 
> I removed the ash pan, airbox/blower assembly, and door and hauled it down to my basement using an appliance dolly and with 2 people helping me it went pretty smooth. Where exactly in Wisconsin are you located?



You are correct regards Menards and the 11% would qualify according to their disclaimer. I am located in Amberg, WI. near Michigan border.


----------



## trx250r87

I'm about 50 miles south of you. I have land in Beecher.


----------



## just tring to stay warm

i work for a heating that lets you buy at cost. and i just so happens we have an account with SBI


----------



## Lambeau Leaper

trx250r87 said:


> I'm about 50 miles south of you. I have land in Beecher.


 That puts you near Stiles/Abrams area. Possible visit to see your furnace? I have family in Green Bay.


----------



## trx250r87

Lameau Leaper, please PM me for more info..


----------



## Lambeau Leaper

just tring to stay warm said:


> i work for a heating that lets you buy at cost. and i just so happens we have an account with SBI


 Be interesting to see what price you could purchase a Tundra furnace for.


----------



## Mlaw22

I did the same thing. Removed all I could, bricks, door, blower, etc... Appliance dolly and three guys. It frigin sucked. Still havnt removed my hotblast. Kinda wanna take up in pieces. My stairs start in a hallway and stairs end at my basement wall. No straight shots.


----------



## spadjen

just tring to stay warm said:


> i work for a heating that lets you buy at cost. and i just so happens we have an account with SBI



i will pay you $200 over cost.


----------



## brenndatomu

Lambeau Leaper said:


> Be interesting to see what price you could purchase a Tundra furnace for.


Post # 655 on page 33..."well after taking 2 days to read this whole thread. i have to make a choice. saturday i am going to go look at a psg caddy wood only. right now i use a drolet ht2000. but we want to centralize our heat throughout the house. with the caddy, blower, and fan limit i can get it for $1677. and the drolet heatmax/tundra i can get it for $1300. I do have a question, with the heatmax, do you have to hook up the cold air return?"


----------



## Lambeau Leaper

trx250r87 said:


> Lameau Leaper, please PM me for more info..


 Did you buy from Menard's or ?


----------



## deerlakejens

Have you guys looked at a powered stair walking dolly? A friend of mine rented one to put a gun safe on the second floor, best $46 ever spent!


----------



## Lambeau Leaper

deerlakejens said:


> Have you guys looked at a powered stair walking dolly? A friend of mine rented one to put a gun safe on the second floor, best $46 ever spent!


Thanks for the tip. I am going to mock up a foot print of the furnace and make sure I can maneuver it from garage down stairs to basement.


----------



## djkost

Anyone running a barometric damper oon their tundra. I just installed one. Haven't had a change to fire it up yet. If there is little draft will this help increase the draft? If the damper door stays shut it should run like a normal flue pipe correct? Haven't uused one before. The other day my draft ran up to 08wc and then down to 03. I decided to install one to stabilize the draft at 05-06wc.if I add 2 ft onto my chimney would this increase the draft ? Any help thanks.


----------



## brenndatomu

1. No, does not increase the draft, only stabilizes/lowers it.
2. Yes, for the most part.
3. Yes, more height will = more draft...
You'll need to use a manometer to set the BD correctly, it sounds like you already have one, so that's good. I have my manometer mounted on the walll, leave it hooked up all the time just to verify that the BD is working correctly


----------



## jimbgtrbeer

Hi guys, first post, been lurking for a few months. I installed a Tundra in October and have been happy with it. I have a thermostat hooked up and it heats my 1200 sqft. ranch nicely. Today while refilling I noticed a crack about three inches long on the front of the furnace near the bottom left corner of the door. It starts at the spot where they cut the whole for the door and runs horizontal. It is open enough for me to see the glow of the coals, after inspection I found another crack about 3/4 " at the top corner of the door. Bummer, I'll be calling Rural King and SBI tomorrow.


----------



## flotek

Wow maybe it was damaged in shipping or moving it in and starting to get worse as it was used or maybe as unlikely as it is you got a lemon out of the thousands already sold ..regardless that should easily be warrantied and in my experience they are a good company if you have a concern or issue get some pictures write down the serial number and call they will want you to send the pictures of the damage to the tech support via email


----------



## newyorker

Sounds like a lemon hopefully they take care of you


----------



## newyorker

I'm still pondering between tundra and caddy


----------



## stihly dan

newyorker said:


> I'm still pondering between tundra and caddy



How can the caddy not be a slam dunk. It's a proven good efficient problem free furnace that you don't hear any negatives about. The tundra is the opposite.


----------



## newyorker

Price dan


----------



## stihly dan

newyorker said:


> Price dan



sometimes a few extra bucks are worth a lot more in the end. I understand affordability but if there is any way to save a little more for a proven good product even if it takes a year or 2. Especially in this case.


----------



## newyorker

I agree. A week ago I was going to buy a englander 28-3500 but then I send the tundra


----------



## Wisneaky

This goes out to all the moderators....Who deleted me post? Who deleted my account? WHY???? Real good for a new member to experience this crap!


----------



## Steve NW WI

Wisneaky said:


> This goes out to all the moderators....Who deleted me post? Who deleted my account? WHY???? Real good for a new member to experience this crap!



I'm a mod. I didn't delete you, it might have been another mod , but if you signed up and posted last night, chances are it got deleted as part of a server change that happened last night. If so, I apologize. A lot of posts from last night went missing.


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## Whitespider

Back in the day, I was once riding with a Blue Ribbon guzzling guy that managed to make an eigth mile of posts go missing...
That VW was no match for the corner post though.
*


----------



## Wisneaky

Steve NW WI said:


> I'm a mod. I didn't delete you, it might have been another mod , but if you signed up and posted last night, chances are it got deleted as part of a server change that happened last night. If so, I apologize. A lot of posts from last night went missing.


I do apologize for freaking out.


----------



## Wisneaky

I posted last night if anyone has heard of duravent duraliner. I am going to by a tundra this week and I am going to have to line my chimney and I want a liner that will last. They are factory insulated and look to be good. Is the extra cost worth it? Anyone have any experience with them? One other question my inside dimension of my chimney are 11x7 but when I measure the outside dimensions on top it is 13x13 should I use a round 6" liner or go with a 6" oval liner?


----------



## laynes69

A duraliner will do just fine. If you current liner is cracked then you should have insulation added to your liner. Depending on your chimney height, you could downsize to fit a liner if necessary. If I recall a 6" flex liner is around 6-5/8" in diameter. A rigid liner will cost more, but come in at 6" in diameter. Your headed in the right direction by lining your chimney for the Tundra. Any high efficiency wood furnace requires a properly sized chimney for best operation and draft.


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## Wisneaky

My chimney doesn't have a liner. It was previously used for an oil furnace. I measured the size and it is 17' tall. Pretty sure I'm going to order the duraliner total cost with pipe, tee, thimble and cap will be around $850


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## laynes69

If it's brick only and no clay liner, then you need insulation. Are you looking at a rigid liner? Some rigid liners have a second liner that snaps around, so the airspace becomes insulation. Just make sure whatever liner you choose will fit.


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## Wisneaky

The duraliner is actually double walled and insulated.


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## laynes69

Alright, sounds good then. I wouldn't reduce the liner size, considering the chimney height. If you can't get a 6" round down, then you'll have to go oval. I don't know what the overall diameter of the liner is. Make sure there's no extra mortar sticking out from the joints, doesn't take much to stop a liner from going down.


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## Wisneaky

Is there any difference's in draft between the round and oval? The oval is actually cheaper, but I'd prefer round. The round liner is supposed to be 6 5/8 I have 7" inside clearance so it might be tight.

Drolet Tundra "coming soon" Husqvarna 450e


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## flotek

Dura vent triple wall is what I use of coarse that's different setup being an external pipe but I will say it's quality is excellent and has served me well it is not cheap but it drafts great and is very safe . It insulates so well snow lays on it unmelted . Sounds like you'll have a good setup for the tundra . a lot of people tend to foolishly think a chimney is a chimney and it's just a place for smoke to exit they don't realize it critically effects how the wood heating appliance operates . New style EPA. stoves and furnaces need strong drafts and need the flue to be 6" diameter to draft right there is less volume to heat this way and produces better results ,if it's insulated that's even better at keeping the temperature up and also prevent creosote ..see you must continually heat this flue area to sustain the draft and it acts as a vacuum . Just elbowing into a clay tile chimney is a poor way to install a stove but people always do it and don't consider the flue function . If they get poor results they often immediately blame the stove instead of the obvious issue at hand


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## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> Dura vent triple wall is what I use of coarse that's different setup being an external pipe but I will say it's quality is excellent and has served me well it is not cheap but it drafts great and is very safe . It insulates so well snow lays on it unmelted . Sounds like you'll have a good setup for the tundra . a lot of people tend to foolishly think a chimney is a chimney and it's just a place for smoke to exit they don't realize it critically effects how the wood heating appliance operates . New style EPA. stoves and furnaces need strong drafts and need the flue to be 6" diameter to draft right see you must continually heat this flue area to sustain the draft and it acts as a vacuum . Just elbowing into a clay tile chimney is a poor way to install a stove but people always do it and don't consider the flue function . If they get poor results they often immediately blame the stove instead of the obvious issue at hand


 I've been doing tons of research on this furnace and different liners. I'm pretty well set on these. Going to make my purchases hopefully Thursday. I'm sick of the high prices of LP.


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## brenndatomu

Brush Ape said:


> Hey, Bud I have had real good experience with Simpson Dura Vent triple wall. What I liked about it is that it was based on an airflow principle to keep it cool instead of being crammed full of insulation. I think the liner is probably a safe bet. Stainless is always better from my perspective.


Air cooled pipe is generally not recommended for wood burners because the inner pipe needs to stay hot enough to avoid creosote, insulated pipe is better in this case.


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## flotek

Wisneaky said:


> I've been doing tons of research on this furnace and different liners. I'm pretty well set on these. Going to make my purchases hopefully Thursday. I'm sick of the high prices of LP.


 With the price of lp and the rationing going on you'll get your money back in no time . I use 100% wood for heat no backup I won't give those scoundrels a penny for dirty fuel oil . I've burned for 6 years and never used one drop of liquid fuel . Based on what I was using I'd guess I saved sour 18,000$ Since I stopped the nonsense and started burning wood


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## Wisneaky

my house is small. Main floor is 1000sf basement is the same size, but I heat it. So far this year I've spent $1800 on LP. I'm sure I'll be much lower with wood. I'm going to keep the LP hooked up for backup and insurance reasons so they don't drop me, but hoping I won't have to use it.


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## Wisneaky

Anyone have any pictures or video of the tundra/heatmax in action?


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## Wisneaky

Brush Ape said:


> That's why generalities are generic. The Simpson Dura Vent is wood burner flue. I installed mine new in 1996 and it is just like new. There is no problem with stack temp, velocity and least of all differential out/in. It won't melt snow, but you wouldn't want to touch the inner one especially as I burn Hedge.


 my brother has a class a installed on his furnace that's in his garage. You can touch the class a pipe and its cool to the touch. But touch the black pipe prior to the thimble and you'll have severe burns if lucky to have a hand left.


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## stihly dan

If you get a good furnace you can touch the black pipe without losing skin.


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## djkost

Just got to try the BD on my trundra. Had it set up to ,06 wc but fire in the stove seem to be blazing hard. Should it be reduced to maybe .05 WC? What are other guy running their draft at. My internal temps below the BD was 300. My BD is about 18 inches above the stove.


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## brenndatomu

Doesn't SBI recommend .05-.08? It is easy enough to change it, try it at .05"WC (or less) see what it does.
Just FYI, Yukon recommends .03"WC (not more than .04") for their wood furnaces. Different firebox design though...


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## djkost

I think the book said 06wc but I'm going to turn it down to 05wc. It seems to be burning hard at 06wc.


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## Mlaw22

My burns around .08 to .05 . My burn times kinda suck. Book says maximum -.06 and min -.04. I think I need to get a baro and keep it consistent. Plus it gets windy here. Just sick of buyin crap for this thing. Well, at least the boss is! Double wall is a kicker.


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## spadjen

Mlaw22 said:


> My burns around .08 to .05 . My burn times kinda suck. Book says maximum -.06 and min -.04. I think I need to get a baro and keep it consistent. Plus it gets windy here. Just sick of buyin crap for this thing. Well, at least the boss is! Double wall is a kicker.


check your wood with a moisture meter. I have had bad burn times too. When i checked it with the meter it registered 0%. my meter wont register under 5% so i know i am between 0-5%. I am pretty sure my wood was just burning up too fast being so dry. now i am on the opposite side of the scale since i ran out of wood. needed to get a load of fresh cut ash. First time burning ash but i do notice i am getting longer burn times. It measures about 30- 37% which is a little high but like i said....longer burn time. I am sure if it was somewhere in the 15% i would be getting both more heat and longer burn. picky picky.


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## stihly dan

37% is not remotely close to a LITTLE high. That is wet. Kiln dried lumber is more than 5%. Need To get a better meter, or learn how to tell dry wood from wet from sight and sound.


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## brenndatomu

spadjen said:


> my meter wont register under 5% so i know i am between 0-5%.


Impossible, kiln dried lumber is not even that low. It is REALLY hard to get air dried firewood much under 15%, YMMV _a bit _ one way or the other by location.


spadjen said:


> First time burning ash but i do notice i am getting longer burn times. It measures about 30- 37% which is a little high


Anything over 30% is just plain soppin wet! I'm surprised you are getting any heat at all off that. If you like wet Ash, you will LOVE dry Ash!

Oops, just realized I'm starting to look like Stihlys parrot!  Note to self...read _all _the new replys before posting


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## flotek

I put one good sized oak log in mine on a coal bed before I went at 5:30 to work ..7 hrs later it's still going and the blower is running. In all fairness it is a little warmer today though . I had some home construction scraps left over and tossed some Osb board and cut up 2x4 s in their wow did those secondaries throw out the heat for a long time . The drolet really excels with low moisture wood. If I burn half seasoned wood secondaries don't do much and it basically burns like any average non EPA furnace but if your stuff is well seasoned you'll see great results . I heard of a certain crazy guy who sometimes using Eco bricks in this and mixing several of them with not fully prime seasoned wood who has seen great results and long hot burns. . At 3 bucks for a six pack of Eco bricks(rated at 8% moisture) a person could use them exclusively as fuel never cut one stick of wood and it would still be cheaper than propane or fuel oil


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## brenndatomu

My brother sells Eco bricks, he has customers that do heat solely with them. 
I will throw 1 or 2 bricks on the top of a load of firewood that is marginally dry, once the bricks fire they will keep the secondarys going until the rest of the wood is charred (dry)
it works pretty well, I figure they ultra dry bricks help to bring down the "average" moisture content of the load too


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## Wisneaky

I picked up my tundra this morning. I must say it is heavier than hell to move. Me and my nephew just barely were able to get it into the house and down stairs. Seems to be built good. I removed the fire brick first before we moved it in and there is 4 broken ones that were in it. I will have to see if they will replace them.


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## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> Impossible, kiln dried lumber is not even that low. It is REALLY hard to get air dried firewood much under 15%, YMMV _a bit _ one way or the other by location.
> Anything over 30% is just plain soppin wet! I'm surprised you are getting any heat at all off that. If you like wet Ash, you will LOVE dry Ash!
> 
> Oops, just realized I'm starting to look like Stihlys parrot!  Note to self...read _all _the new replys before posting


it is possible......i am living proof....lol. i did season that for 4 years and then put in the basement next to the wood stove for 3 months so it was ready to spontaneous combust 

and yes...that is wet. it was sold to me as "dry ash" . It is hard to get wood in our area right now. took me 2 weeks to find any and that was 55 min away. cost me an xtra $100 for delivery. all i can say is...........never again am i running out of wood. this is the first year and the last year that will ever ever happen. I went through hell so as long as i am not burning wet pine floating in the swimming pool i will live with that.


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## spadjen

stihly dan said:


> 37% is not remotely close to a LITTLE high. That is wet. Kiln dried lumber is more than 5%. Need To get a better meter, or learn how to tell dry wood from wet from sight and sound.



some of us have no choice in the matter.

and........ i know how to read a meter. what me to post a video of it??? 

kiln dried is usually 10-15%. what do you think would happen if they never took it outta the cooker for another 2 weeks? its not like wood gets to 10% and stops.


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## stihly dan

I'm sure you know how to read the meter, I was not implying that. I was implying that the meter was not working correctly or lost calibration. Rendering it no good and having to know other ways to tell if the wood was dry. It would be impossible to air dry wood that low in moisture content, BUT by the stove for 3 months that's different.
I understand we do what we have to, for heat. Again, I was saying 37% was not slightly wet. So there was no confusion for someone that did not know better.


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## spadjen

stihly dan said:


> I'm sure you know how to read the meter, I was not implying that. I was implying that the meter was not working correctly or lost calibration. Rendering it no good and having to know other ways to tell if the wood was dry. It would be impossible to air dry wood that low in moisture content, BUT by the stove for 3 months that's different.
> I understand we do what we have to, for heat. Again, I was saying 37% was not slightly wet. So there was no confusion for someone that did not know better.


yeah i know the thud and clink sound, the smell and the back saving weight of seasoned. but i guess some clarification was in order for those reading the forum. I was being somewhat sarcastic . 35% is not too high for fresh cut ash...but is " alittle high" (aka....higher then cheech and chong) to be considered a good idea to burn. unless your screwed like me.


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## Wisneaky

does anyone have the AC01392 air return kit? What is the point of the thermodisc that comes with it?


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## Wisneaky

anyone who has the tundra, what are your flue temp running at?


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## trx250r87

300-400°F, 2' up from outlet, inside double wall black. I don't think I ever went over 450° yet.


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## flotek

My flue temp externally run around 200 ..a high number. May indicate a high draft speed that's pulling heat up the flue


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## Wisneaky

Got my my tundra installed today. Did a test burn with no problems. Didn't burn too much because I don't have the new flue liner installed yet. I bet there is going to be some crazy burn times. I put three pieces of oak slab wood in and they burned for 6 hours. Can't wait to get the liner installed so I can see what this thing can do. So far I'm impressed.


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## newyorker

Looks good I hope it works out good for you


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## wise8706

I have a situation to ask u guys about the heatmax... I have a 1000sq ft house that I purchased a couple years about. Garage is insulated very well so is the house. The garage is attached to house. Previous owner had Woodstove with blower and and he blew air into the house through duct work in the attic of garage. 8 inch duct work with insulation wrapped all the way around it. The distance from where I would like to position Woodstove to the house is about 40ft. My question is if I purchased a heatmax would I have to run more than one heat duct blowing straight into the house in order to be more efficient. I would like to keep Woodstove in garage to keep mess out of house. Le me know what u guys think. Thanks in advance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> Got my my tundra installed today.


Any idea if the blower-to-cabinet issue or the ash drawer flaw has been taken care of already? If so, is the ash drawer any different than what was sent to early purchasers as a retrofit?


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## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Any idea if the blower-to-cabinet issue or the ash drawer flaw has been taken care of already? If so, is the ash drawer any different than what was sent to early purchasers as a retrofit?


 
I just had mine installed yesterday and I don't see how the ash drawer could be any sort of problem. I had a fire going and I didn't see anything blowing around.


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## 82mkiiltype

Well my Heatmax is currently sitting on a skid at my basement door. Going to be bringing it in tonight. I called SBI before purchasing and was assured all inventory in the plant was retrofitted and any furnace shipping direct from the factory would have the upgrades. I guess I'll see for myself tonight. Still don't think I'll bother to use the ash pan.



Wisneaky said:


> Wisneaky
> New Member
> Joined:Feb 17, 2014
> Messages:15
> Likes Received:1
> does anyone have the AC01392 air return kit? What is the point of the thermodisc that comes with it?



I ordered the cold air return kit, but haven't opened it yet. I'm interested in this question. Any answers yet?


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## Wisneaky

82mkiiltype said:


> Well my Heatmax is currently sitting on a skid at my basement door. Going to be bringing it in tonight. I called SBI before purchasing and was assured all inventory in the plant was retrofitted and any furnace shipping direct from the factory would have the upgrades. I guess I'll see for myself tonight. Still don't think I'll bother to use the ash pan.
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered the cold air return kit, but haven't opened it yet. I'm interested in this question. Any answers yet?


 I decided not to buy the cold air return kit, and I just butted the furnace filter out up to my cold air return and it seems to work fine. I will seal the edges with aluminum tape.


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## trx250r87

It's interesting that neither manual states what the thermo disc actually does, but it looks like it replaces the high limit disc inside the rear electrical box and is relocated to the top of the stove.


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## Wisneaky

trx250r87 said:


> It's interesting that neither manual states what the thermo disc actually does, but it looks like it replaces the high limit disc inside the rear electrical box and is relocated to the top of the stove.


 I know. I was wondering if the furnace runs hotter with the cold air return hooked up to it. That's the only reason that I think they would relocate the thermal disc.


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## Wisneaky

I bought a Honeywell 5000 2 stage thermostat and was hoping to use this to control my tundra and my LP furnace for back up, but I can't figure out how to wire it. Anyone have any insight on how to do this?


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## flotek

Wisneaky said:


> I decided not to buy the cold air return kit, and I just butted the furnace filter out up to my cold air return and it seems to work fine. I will seal the edges with aluminum tape.


I use the filter box kit very much like what your doing without the return hooked up . Works like a champ for me every 10-14 days I install a new 3m filter . My old furnace didn't have a provision for a return or filter box so I appreciated this feature .. It really keeps the dust and fine ash or smoke from getting into your ductwork


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## flotek

I would just call sbi and ask about the special thermostat install . They are good about that kinda thing with tech support


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## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> I would just call sbi and ask about the special thermostat install . They are good about that kinda thing with tech support


do you have a phone number for them? I can't seem to find it.


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## Wisneaky

Hey guys question for you all. It's really cold here so I got this thing really going, how full can you fill the fire box? I just don't want to over fill it.


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## flotek

Leave an inch below the burn tubes if your going to fill it . You'll want that space for secondary gases to combust


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## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> Leave an inch below the burn tubes if your going to fill it . You'll want that space for secondary gases to combust


 thanks for your quick reply!


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## newyorker

Hows the tundra working out


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## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Hows the tundra working out


 awesome so far. 10 degrees outside -11 windchill and with the thermostat hooked up its keeping my house exactly at 68 degrees where I have it set. Really stinky new paint smell at first though.


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## Wisneaky

I think I'm going to sit down here and drink beer and admire the fire all night.


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## newyorker

Lol I do that with my dutchwest my wife says I drink to much I tell her you get thirsty by the fire


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## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Lol I do that with my dutchwest my wife says I drink to much I tell her you get thirsty by the fire


 I may never leave the basement


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## newyorker

So how are your burn times


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## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> So how are your burn times


 I fired it up a few days a go just to try it out. I didn't have the chimney liner in so I only had it going for 6 hours. I got the duravent liner installed today so this is my first real fire. I'll let you know tomorrow morning after I fill it tonight before bed.


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## Wisneaky

what's everyone got their blower speed set on? I left mine at the factory setting, but I think it should be a little higher. My LP furnace blows harder.


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## trx250r87

Mine is on the highest setting.


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## newyorker

Thanks


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## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> So how are your burn times


 the temp is supposed to drop to -18 here tonight with a -47 windchill. My guess is I will use a lot, but It'll be interesting to see.


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## Wisneaky

trx250r87 said:


> Mine is on the highest setting.


 im heating roughly 1800sq ft so i may have to crank it up then.


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## flotek

Just remember this simple rule 
The drier / more seasoned the wood 
... The longer the burn time and the hotter the burn


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## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> Just remember this simple rule
> The drier / more seasoned the wood
> ... The longer the burn time and the hotter the burn


 I don't have a moisture meter, but I'm burning some oak that seems to be dry. I don't see any moisture coming out of it when it burns and I don't hear it sizzling.


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## Wisneaky

trx250r87 said:


> Mine is on the highest setting.


 my blower has only turned off a few times. I wonder if that is because it is set too low? What you think?


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## newyorker

Turn it up and put a thermometer in the vent see the temp difference


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## Wisneaky

is the blower supposed to pretty much run nonstop on a wood furnace?


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## stihly dan

Yes, the lower the temp setting the more heat you will get out of it.


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## Wisneaky

but since the blower is going nonstop doesn't that cool the fire box down too much?



stihly dan said:


> Yes, the lower the temp setting the more heat you will get out of it.


----------



## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> but since the blower is going nonstop doesn't that cool the fire box down too much?


No, running the blower too high will though. A nice steady low flow of warm air circulating through your house will be the most comfortable too. I'd say SBI set the blower on that speed at the factory because it is optimal under the most conditions, having to change the blower speed should be the exception rather than the rule. Really, the only reason to speed it up would be if you absolutely need it to push air to the far corners of your house.


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## Wisneaky

I must have too much draft. I know its windy out today, but my flue temp doesn't want to go over 250


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## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> I must have too much draft. I know its windy out today, but my flue temp doesn't want to go over 250


I will let some of the guys that have had a Tundra installed for a while comment, but I don't think they are running much higher than that normally. If it is making enough heat I wouldn't worry about it too much. If the heat output is poor, then I'd say your wood is not really dry enough. Any secondary burn type of stove like the Tundra will see a HUGE increase in heat output with dry wood, longer burn times too.


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## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> I will let some of the guys that have had a Tundra installed for a while comment, but I don't think they are running much higher than that normally. If it is making enough heat I wouldn't worry about it too much. If the heat output is poor, then I'd say your wood is not really dry enough. Any secondary burn type of stove like the Tundra will see a HUGE increase in heat output with dry wood, longer burn times too.


It appears that I'm getting the secondary burn with no problems. So I'm not sure.


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## flotek

brenndatomu said:


> No, running the blower too high will though. A nice steady low flow of warm air circulating through your house will be the most comfortable too. I'd say SBI set the blower on that speed at the factory because it is optimal under the most conditions, having to change the blower speed should be the exception rather than the rule. Really, the only reason to speed it up would be if you absolutely need it to push air to the far corners of your house.



I would agree 100% with this ^


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## wise8706

Fill me in on how you measure the moisture? Or where I could purchase a moisture tester. Buying a heatmax in a couple weeks and wanna make sure I have all my ducks in a row. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brenndatomu

Lowes, HD, Amazon, Harbor Freight, Fleabay, lots of places to get moisture meters. 
Without a meter...bang a couple splits together, they should clank like a wooden baseball bat. If they make more of a thud, wet


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## wise8706

Thanks for the quick reply. We always just clank the wood together and if they clanked they were good. But to me it sounds like these new drolet stoves need to have good dry wood to get the hottest and longest burn out of em. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wisneaky

wise8706 said:


> Fill me in on how you measure the moisture? Or where I could purchase a moisture tester. Buying a heatmax in a couple weeks and wanna make sure I have all my ducks in a row.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 check amazon.com probably the cheapest place to get one.


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## Wisneaky

I think I figured out my problem with why my blower is running nonstop. It appears my cold air return is restricting it. As soon as I take off the back panel the blower shuts off. So I ran it with the back cover off and the blower runs for about 5 minutes and turns off and turns back on like normal.


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## brenndatomu

That'll do it. FYI, cold air returns are normally sized larger than the supply side. Also, any filter will restrict some, but the better the filter, the more the restriction


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## newyorker

Yea the cheaper the filter the better for airflow


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## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> That'll do it. FYI, cold air returns are normally sized larger than the supply side. Also, any filter will restrict some, but the better the filter, the more the restriction


 must have been that. Now my pipe is a perfect 300 degrees


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## Wisneaky

I'm loving this thing. I want to thank everyone for their advice and help with everything!


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## flotek

Glad you like it . Over time you'll appreciate it's benefits and long burns . All the furnace asks is that you feed it good seasoned wood . Initially the furnace got a bad rap( and rightfully so ) but the manufacturer stepped up and made it right . I'd guess my wood savings at well over 30% over my other furnace even in a record wicked winter with the average temperatures 20 degrees below normal .. I still have 2 solid cords left in my wood shed .thats meaningful to me , I know this by doing it for years that Even in a mild winter that firewood in my shed would be gone by beginning of March .i have used about 4 cords total when it should have been well over. 6 cords on average . That means about 300+$ (2cords of hardwood goes for 150 a cord) in wood savings in my pocket ! the extra cost of the unit over a smoke dragon is already paying it's self off


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## NSMaple1

wise8706 said:


> Fill me in on how you measure the moisture? Or where I could purchase a moisture tester. Buying a heatmax in a couple weeks and wanna make sure I have all my ducks in a row.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
Once you get a meter, you need to measure on a freshly split surface.


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## Wisneaky

So I went 9 hours with still plenty of coals left to relight it. I'm pretty sure that I have too much draft. After 4 hours my heat in my house dropped to 66 and its set at 68 when I woke up this morning it was 63 and LP was on. It was cold here though still 18 below out right now.


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## newyorker

18 below is cold better try a baro


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## flotek

Are you using the incinerator factory snap disc ? If so that could be part of your issue


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## 82mkiiltype

Well, I installed the furnace and got it WETT certified yesterday. HVAC guy had never seen one, but his young assistant looked at it and said it looks very close to the Caddy he had in his own house.

It must of had a bump or two as two of my firebricks were broken, and the control rod that connects the controller to the air flap wasn't connected. Easy fixes, and minor issues but did take me a while to figure out how to light it as the draft door wouldn't open.

I did install the cold air return kit, with the different high limit switch, relocated to the top of the firebox as per instructions. I did check part numbers on the original and replacement switches and they are different. The original was a L160-40f (Opens @160, closed @115f) and is located in the rear control box. The replacement was a L200-40f (Opens @ 200, closes @ 160) and ends up dead center of the 4 air ducts right on top of the exit flue pipe. The filter definitely reduces air flow through the furnace even without duct work hooked up to it so I'm guessing that's the reason for the change but I'll give SBI a call because my curiosity is getting the best of me.

For the people changing the fan control switch ... what's the prefered temp/part# right now? It gets super hot before kicking on. I know it needs the heat for the secondary's to work ... but man it gets hot. The fan is cycling on and off but even when it's off heat rises out of the unit at very high temps. 

Exhaust temp from cheap magnetic temperature gauge on single wall smoke pipe reads about 170f while running slowly. Look outside ... no smoke. Gotta love that.

After two burns and the nasty smelling "break in" smoke ... this thing is a totally different animal than an old smoke dragon. Watching the Secondary burn is just amazing, and I'm using dead/punky but very dry Elm and Ash and getting lots of heat. If I was going to fully duct in the furnace to my entire house including AC coil ... I probably would go for a Max Caddy and would be in the neighborhood of $10,000+tax all in. For a Sub $2000+tax CDN, high efficiency, add-on furnace that I installed myself to supplement propane heat... this is a very impressive unit. Sure it has a few fit/finish issues and I don't think I'll bother using the ash drawer, but "bang for buck" ... money well spent at 1/4 of the price. Lets be realistic here, it cost less than most high efficiency wood stoves... and it's a furnace!

So far, I'm very happy.


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## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> Are you using the incinerator factory snap disc ? If so that could be part of your issue


 yep just the factory disc


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## Wisneaky

82mkiiltype said:


> Well, I installed the furnace and got it WETT certified yesterday. HVAC guy had never seen one, but his young assistant looked at it and said it looks very close to the Caddy he had in his own house.
> 
> It must of had a bump or two as two of my firebricks were broken, and the control rod that connects the controller to the air flap wasn't connected. Easy fixes, and minor issues but did take me a while to figure out how to light it as the draft door wouldn't open.
> 
> I did install the cold air return kit, with the different high limit switch, relocated to the top of the firebox as per instructions. I did check part numbers on the original and replacement switches and they are different. The original was a L160-40f (Opens @160, closed @115f) and is located in the rear control box. The replacement was a L200-40f (Opens @ 200, closes @ 160) and ends up dead center of the 4 air ducts right on top of the exit flue pipe. The filter definitely reduces air flow through the furnace even without duct work hooked up to it so I'm guessing that's the reason for the change but I'll give SBI a call because my curiosity is getting the best of me.
> 
> For the people changing the fan control switch ... what's the prefered temp/part# right now? It gets super hot before kicking on. I know it needs the heat for the secondary's to work ... but man it gets hot. The fan is cycling on and off but even when it's off heat rises out of the unit at very high temps.
> 
> Exhaust temp from cheap magnetic temperature gauge on single wall smoke pipe reads about 170f while running slowly. Look outside ... no smoke. Gotta love that.
> 
> After two burns and the nasty smelling "break in" smoke ... this thing is a totally different animal than an old smoke dragon. Watching the Secondary burn is just amazing, and I'm using dead/punky but very dry Elm and Ash and getting lots of heat. If I was going to fully duct in the furnace to my entire house including AC coil ... I probably would go for a Max Caddy and would be in the neighborhood of $10,000+tax all in. For a Sub $2000+tax CDN, high efficiency, add-on furnace that I installed myself to supplement propane heat... this is a very impressive unit. Sure it has a few fit/finish issues and I don't think I'll bother using the ash drawer, but "bang for buck" ... money well spent at 1/4 of the price. Lets be realistic here, it cost less than most high efficiency wood stoves... and it's a furnace!
> 
> So far, I'm very happy.


Let me know if you find out anything about that thermodisc.


----------



## trx250r87

I picked up an adjustable thermodisc (White Rodgers 3F05-3) on ebay for under $20 shipped and set it to come on at 120° and off at 100°.


----------



## flotek

110 on and 90 off switches can be bought for 17$ And that is proven to work for some of us ..or for around same price you can get an adjustable one and fine tune for your application is what I'd suggest


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I picked up an adjustable thermodisc (White Rodgers 3F05-3) on ebay for under $20 shipped and set it to come on at 120° and off at 100°.





flotek said:


> 110 on and 90 off switches can be bought for 17$ And that is proven to work for some of us ..or for around same price you can get an adjustable one and fine tune for your application is what I'd suggest


Why so low guys? Most people set the adjustable type (honeywell) switches that a lot of furnaces have at roughly 150 on 110 off. 110-120 on sounds like asking for trouble because of firebox/secondary heat exchanger cooling, she'll creosote up on ya.


----------



## stihly dan

Mine comes stock set 120 on 105 off, That's good shoulder season temps. But when the real cold gets here I adjust it down to 105 on 90 off. You get a crap ton more heat for a longer time. Fire box is insulated you are burning all the gas, just taking more heat from the heat exchanger not the firebox.


----------



## Wisneaky

I installed a baro today. I can already tell that my burn times are going to be much better.


----------



## flotek

I agree with Stihlydan .Your missing out on about1.5- 2 hours of a running blower by using the factory setting .i know it goes against theory but in operation The firebox doesn't really care if the blower is on or off . As long as the wood is well seasoned the secondary action will take place regardless . The heat exchanger holds the heat .I realize the fear is the furnace will cool too much and therefore the gases in the flue will condense more rapidly and make creosote in the liner /flue ..When you burn the smoke and volatiles up during secondary combustion with dry wood There really isn't any creosote to be concerned with because all that junk is already gone and if moisture is low there's nothing to condense onto the flue walls . A lot of furnaces come factory with similar settings the Englander furnace has a factory setting at low limit of 100 . No sense in having a heavy bed of coals if the blower isn't running


----------



## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> I agree with Stihlydan .Your missing out on about1.5- 2 hours of a running blower by using the factory setting .i know it goes against theory but in operation The firebox doesn't really care if the blower is on or off . As long as the wood is well seasoned the secondary action will take place regardless . The heat exchanger holds the heat .I realize the fear is the furnace will cool too much and therefore the gases in the flue will condense more rapidly and make creosote in the liner /flue ..When you burn the smoke and volatiles up during secondary combustion with dry wood There really isn't any creosote to be concerned with because all that junk is already gone and if moisture is low there's nothing to condense onto the flue walls . A lot of furnaces come factory with similar settings the Englander furnace has a factory setting at low limit of 100 . No sense in having a heavy bed of coals if the blower isn't running


 what blower setting do you recommend?


----------



## brenndatomu

Yeah...I can understand how the Kuuma can be set however you want, due to nothing being left in the exhaust stream to form creosote, but in my experience, a regular ole secondary burn stove will still creosote up a cold flue, so if theory follows maybe the heat exchangers too? Dunno, guess we will hafta wait and see how this works out long term for the Tundra/Heatmax guys. I'm sure after a year or two, these guys will really have 'em dialed in good


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## Wisneaky

hey guys another question, is it normal for the glass to become smokey looking? Like the bottom half of it has a haze on it.


----------



## Wisneaky

This is what the glass looks like. Does it look ok or too Smokey?


----------



## newyorker

Nice trane


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Nice trane


 I paid tons of money for that last winter. Hoped it would save me money because its 95% efficiency, but with the price of LP now I could kick myself in the head.


----------



## newyorker

Yeah I just got a rheem 2 stage 95er wish lp was free because is sure it nice


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## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Yeah I just got a rheem 2 stage 95er wish lap was free because is sure it nice


 honestly with the wood heat I don't feel the cool chill like I always do with LP.


----------



## newyorker

I have a 2 stage and and very impressed with the even heat


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> I have a 2 stage and and very impressed with the even heat


 mines not the 2 stage. I'm hoping to not have to run it very often anymore though.


----------



## newyorker

I'm sure when you get that tundra dialed in it won't run at all


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## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> I have a 2 stage and and very impressed with the even heat


 it's 10 below here right now and my trane would be running pretty much nonstop and half the rooms would feel chilly, probably use close to 10 gallons heating a day like today.


----------



## newyorker

Tundra will more then payback in one season


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Tundra will more then payback in one season


 I sure hope so. I spent about $3200 on the tundra, flue liner, pipe and what ever else I bought for it.


----------



## flotek

The haze on the glass is usually due to having the wood length right at the maximum so it's up against the glass or at least real close and when moisture is ultimately pushed out of it it will leave a buildup in the glass nothing to be worried about take some ez off oven cleaner and spray on and wipe off once it cools down . Don't clean the glass while it's hot or it'll leave a hazy streak on the glass


----------



## djkost

I tried a 130-115 and couldn't get the heat I needed so I went back to stock then it threw heat. It cycled to much and the fan shut off to quick. Course. It was -29 here this morning. I 'll stay with the stock thermo disk.


----------



## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> This is what the glass looks like. Does it look ok or too Smokey?


FYI, a damp paper towel dipped in cool ashes will clean that right off like magic!


----------



## Mlaw22

brenndatomu said:


> FYI, a damp paper towel dipped in cool ashes will clean that right off like magic!


That's old man wisdom sh** right there !


----------



## brenndatomu

Ha! That's funny. Red Green may be my avatar, but I'm nowhere near his age, closer to yours actually. Yup, that's good info for sure, I think I first read about using ash here on AS...or maybe on that other wood burning forum...you know, the big H. Anyways, try it, it works very well. BTW, if the buildup is REALLY heavy, a new razor blade at a low angle will take most of it off (without scratching the glass) and then you can polish the rest off with the damp towel/ash trick.


----------



## Grey Ghost

We bought a Heatmax back in January from Farm and Home in Corunna, MI for $1,444 with the intention of installing it in the spring/summer. After the last fuel oil bill I decided enough was enough and we spent the money and put in a chimney and through wall installation kit into our basement. We just bought this house last November and I had been cutting lots of nice, beautiful oak but nothing was seasoned. 

We've got a 1,200sq ft ranch with straight run ductwork. It was built in 1973 and it's pretty drafty. It was a very simple installation for the chimney and furnace. I made some special trips to find some dead, standing ash and got plenty nearby. The moisture level is low so we started with a couple small fires to burn off the oils and everything of the new furnace. It was pretty stinky and had to air out the basement for most of the day while initial running. We started running it with only two 45's on top to blow air through the basement because I couldn't get the proper HVAC supplies for a couple days. It kept the furnace from running but didn't do real well warming the house (which was expected). Once I got it hooked up to the ductwork it's been awesome! Temps have been hovering around zero outside and nice and toasty inside. My wife loves it! It's easy for her to load when she needs to and we are starting to fine tune our cycles now. It seems to like to go through an entire burn cycle instead of throwing a log or two on here and there. When the house reaches temp and it shuts the air supply, the secondaries look like an oven and burn cherry red. My uncle across the street has a Yukon Eagle and he's really jealous of the glass door. We are planning on building a nice family area around the furnace because it gives off good radiant heat and it's nice to sit by the fire. I'm very happy so far as I was considering a Caddy before this one showed up in the showroom. I would've been happy with the Caddy no doubt but this was a fraction of the price. 

In the week or so of running it, I can really see a big difference in running well seasoned wood versus slightly wet wood.


----------



## Wisneaky

Grey Ghost said:


> We bought a Heatmax back in January from Farm and Home in Corunna, MI for $1,444 with the intention of installing it in the spring/summer. After the last fuel oil bill I decided enough was enough and we spent the money and put in a chimney and through wall installation kit into our basement. We just bought this house last November and I had been cutting lots of nice, beautiful oak but nothing was seasoned.
> 
> We've got a 1,200sq ft ranch with straight run ductwork. It was built in 1973 and it's pretty drafty. It was a very simple installation for the chimney and furnace. I made some special trips to find some dead, standing ash and got plenty nearby. The moisture level is low so we started with a couple small fires to burn off the oils and everything of the new furnace. It was pretty stinky and had to air out the basement for most of the day while initial running. We started running it with only two 45's on top to blow air through the basement because I couldn't get the proper HVAC supplies for a couple days. It kept the furnace from running but didn't do real well warming the house (which was expected). Once I got it hooked up to the ductwork it's been awesome! Temps have been hovering around zero outside and nice and toasty inside. My wife loves it! It's easy for her to load when she needs to and we are starting to fine tune our cycles now. It seems to like to go through an entire burn cycle instead of throwing a log or two on here and there. When the house reaches temp and it shuts the air supply, the secondaries look like an oven and burn cherry red. My uncle across the street has a Yukon Eagle and he's really jealous of the glass door. We are planning on building a nice family area around the furnace because it gives off good radiant heat and it's nice to sit by the fire. I'm very happy so far as I was considering a Caddy before this one showed up in the showroom. I would've been happy with the Caddy no doubt but this was a fraction of the price.
> 
> In the week or so of running it, I can really see a big difference in running well seasoned wood versus slightly wet wood.


 do you have yours hooked to a thermostat? If so what wire actually goes to what on the furnace. Directions weren't clear and I'm not sure if I have mine right.


----------



## Grey Ghost

Wisneaky said:


> do you have yours hooked to a thermostat? If so what wire actually goes to what on the furnace. Directions weren't clear and I'm not sure if I have mine right.



There's two nuts where you connect the two wires on the back of the control box (on the back of the furnace). Hook them up there and make sure the switch for the air supply door is closed. Then hook up the thermostat as the instructions say.


----------



## Wisneaky

Grey Ghost said:


> There's two nuts where you connect the two wires on the back of the control box (on the back of the furnace). Hook them up there and make sure the switch for the air supply door is closed. Then hook up the thermostat as the instructions say.


yes I understand that, but no where does it say which nut to hook up the red or white wire to. The nuts aren't labeled so does it matter which wire goes to which one?


----------



## Grey Ghost

Wisneaky said:


> yes I understand that, but no where does it say which nut to hook up the red or white wire to. The nuts aren't labeled so does it matter which wire goes to which one?



It shouldn't matter which one as long as they are hooked up.


----------



## Wisneaky

Grey Ghost said:


> It shouldn't matter which one as long as they are hooked up.


 mine is hooked up. I was just wondering if it did matter. Thanks


----------



## Wisneaky

what are you guys hitting for vent temps? Mine was at 147 on factory speed I turned it up and now I'm at 110, my heat run was so hot when it was on the lower speed, worried it would catch something on fire. Maybe it would be fine?


----------



## trx250r87

147 seems a little high. Mine is usually in the 90's.


----------



## Wisneaky

trx250r87 said:


> 147 seems a little high. Mine is usually in the 90's.


 I've been watching it for awhile now and it seems to be hovering around 105 to 110. I could increase the blower speed to drop it more. I'll see what happens in the next hour or so before I play with it again.


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> what are you guys hitting for vent temps? Mine was at 147 on factory speed I turned it up and now I'm at 110, my heat run was so hot when it was on the lower speed, worried it would catch something on fire. Maybe it would be fine?


125-130


----------



## Mlaw22

Wisneaky said:


> what are you guys hitting for vent temps? Mine was at 147 on factory speed I turned it up and now I'm at 110, my heat run was so hot when it was on the lower speed, worried it would catch something on fire. Maybe it would be fine?


 

115 -120


----------



## Wisneaky

so I've been watching it for a few hours now it goes up to 125ish and back dow to around 95


----------



## Wisneaky

So I just wanted to post an update on what I think of the furnace so far. Last night was very cold here around 20 below and it kept my house comfortable for most of the night. I keep the thermostat at 68. I filled it at 1am and when I woke at 7:30am it was still 66 in the house. Tons of coals left in it. I raked them around before I left and it kept the house at 66 until about 12:30 when my wife decided to put more wood on. I'm pretty impressed with it so far. I'm getting the 10-12 hours burn time, but the house does drop a few degrees by then which is understandable. I haven't used a drop of LP in the last day so I'm happy with that.


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## djkost

Like mine also.


----------



## Wisneaky

Wood heat is so much warmer than LP. It is 18 below right now and usually on a night like tonight I would have two blankets on and still be chilly. I actually don't even have one blanket on because I'm so warm. The heat is set at 68, but I might actually turn it lower. I have been burning some big pieces of white ash lately and they seem to do good in the tundra.


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## flotek

Many times in the last month I've come home after 11 hours to a warm house that maintained 71 over the whole day despite it never getting out of the teens . A fully loaded box of the good dry. stuff will last and last if your setup is right


----------



## 82mkiiltype

Well, I haven't done any duct work or thermostat hook-up yet but it's doing a great job of heating the house anyway. I'm terrible at getting distracted mid-task and was having to wait around for the fresh load of wood to char before turning off the draft override. I'd forgotten it once and wasted a load of wood, and then the next day ... put the dog out, remembered the furnace ... forgot to bring the dog back in. Oops... this isn't working.

The solution ... an adjustable 1-30 min "hot tub timer" on the draft control. You just hook it up to the thermostat connections at the back. Doesn't matter if you have a thermostat hooked up or not. 

Now, I just turn the timer to 10 min when I start loading the wood. When It's full of wood I close the door and turn it back to 5 min and walk away. Secondarys get good and hot, and I can't forget. Handy in the morning when leaving for work too. Works great!


----------



## flotek

Can you post a picture or a link to the hot tub timer because that seems like a great idea


----------



## 82mkiiltype

Here is a link.

http://www.hottubwarehouse.com/Intermatic-FF30MC-Timer-p/ff30mc.htm

Both Lowes and Home Depot had them in stock, but Home depot was only $15 ... Lowes was $24.


----------



## djkost

Can someone post some pics on how much wood they load in their tundra? I'm not sure but I think I'm not putting eenough in mine.


----------



## spadjen

82mkiiltype said:


> Well, I haven't done any duct work or thermostat hook-up yet but it's doing a great job of heating the house anyway. I'm terrible at getting distracted mid-task and was having to wait around for the fresh load of wood to char before turning off the draft override. I'd forgotten it once and wasted a load of wood, and then the next day ... put the dog out, remembered the furnace ... forgot to bring the dog back in. Oops... this isn't working.
> 
> The solution ... an adjustable 1-30 min "hot tub timer" on the draft control. You just hook it up to the thermostat connections at the back. Doesn't matter if you have a thermostat hooked up or not.
> 
> Now, I just turn the timer to 10 min when I start loading the wood. When It's full of wood I close the door and turn it back to 5 min and walk away. Secondarys get good and hot, and I can't forget. Handy in the morning when leaving for work too. Works great!


how does it not matter if you have a t-stat hooked up. I dont see how the 2 could work together. If they can i would be interested to adding the timer to my setup which is using a t-stat.


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> Can someone post some pics on how much wood they load in their tundra? I'm not sure but I think I'm not putting eenough in mine.


 I fill mine to the very top about an inch from the burn tubes. First I get a nice bed of coals with some oak slab wood. I've tried split and whole logs and honestly for me the whole logs last longer.


----------



## 82mkiiltype

The timer is just a set of contacts that are closed when wound, and open after a set amount of time. The thermostat is just a set of contacts that close when it calls for heat, and open the rest of the time. The override switch is just a set of contacts that are closed by your finger when adding wood, and opened by your finger when you're done.

All three are wired in parallel and any of them closed, will open the draft. You could have 50 sets of contacts if you wanted to and if any 1 of those 50 contacts closed, the draft would open. Page 58 of the manual shows the wiring diagram.

Stupid statement ... but everyone has read the manual and knows the firebox needs to be heated back up after loading or the secondary combustion doesn't work right? If you shut down the draft override, and you don't have flames above the fire, you need more time with the draft open or it's just going to smoke like crazy.

For the reason stated above, I run full (I mean full!) loads of wood and try to complete a full burn cycle (6 hrs+) before adding more wood. Secondaries will stop holding flames as the wood burns down as most of the gasses have been driven off and burned by then. As stated before, I am burning dry, but low quality ash and elm.


----------



## spadjen

82mkiiltype said:


> The timer is just a set of contacts that are closed when wound, and open after a set amount of time. The thermostat is just a set of contacts that close when it calls for heat, and open the rest of the time. The override switch is just a set of contacts that are closed by your finger when adding wood, and opened by your finger when you're done.
> 
> All three are wired in parallel and any of them closed, will open the draft. You could have 50 sets of contacts if you wanted to and if any 1 of those 50 contacts closed, the draft would open. Page 58 of the manual shows the wiring diagram.
> 
> Stupid statement ... but everyone has read the manual and knows the firebox needs to be heated back up after loading or the secondary combustion doesn't work right? If you shut down the draft override, and you don't have flames above the fire, you need more time with the draft open or it's just going to smoke like crazy.
> 
> For the reason stated above, I run full (I mean full!) loads of wood and try to complete a full burn cycle (6 hrs+) before adding more wood. Secondaries will stop holding flames as the wood burns down as most of the gasses have been driven off and burned by then. As stated before, I am burning dry, but low quality ash and elm.


I did not even look at the wiring diagram. I guess i just assumed that the draft would be closed when open due to the safety feature of a power outage. Loose power the contact would be "open" therefor close the draft so your firebox would not overheat. They must use a different method for this?


----------



## spadjen

for thoes of you running adjustable snap disk what did you find it best set at?


----------



## flotek

spadjen said:


> for thoes of you running adjustable snap disk what did you find it best set at?


Mine is on 110 and it kicks off about 20 degrees below that for me this works great and usually has blower run for 7-8 hours


----------



## flotek

82mkiiltype said:


> Here is a link.
> 
> http://www.hottubwarehouse.com/Intermatic-FF30MC-Timer-p/ff30mc.htm
> 
> Both Lowes and Home Depot had them in stock, but Home depot was only $15 ... Lowes was $24.


So basically I unhook the wire to my servo switch and tie in to the hot tub timer and the other wire on the timer now hooks to the servo switch terminal


----------



## newyorker

What length wood is ideal for tundra?


----------



## spadjen

flotek said:


> Mine is on 110 and it kicks off about 20 degrees below that for me this works great and usually has blower run for 7-8 hours


i never installed an adjustable before so stupid question time. IF you set the dial on the back at 110 that is the cut off temp for the blower? so the blower will actually turn on at 90 and shut down at 110? I was unsure if 110 opens the circuit or closes it.


----------



## 82mkiiltype

flotek said:


> So basically I unhook the wire to my servo switch and tie in to the hot tub timer and the other wire on the timer now hooks to the servo switch terminal



Nope, not that would be wiring it in series, not parallel. Both the switch AND the timer would have to have their contacts closed for the draft to open. That's a bad thing.

No internal wiring needs to be done. The override switch still functions if you choose to use it. Make the connections to the external thermostat terminals on the furnace.

You want to install the timer just like you would a thermostat. You can even use thermostat wire as it's 24V, not 120V. Polarity doesn't matter either. Just run one wire from one of the external terminals on the furnace, to one of the terminals on the timer, and the other wire from the other external terminal on the furnace to the other timer terminal. (just don't connect it to the ground terminal on the timer.)

If you have a thermostat already hooked up, no problem. just leave the wires where they are connected, and add the new wires. You will then have two wires on each external terminal on the furnace.


----------



## newyorker

What's the ideal lengths you guys are cutting for tundra?


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> What's the ideal lengths you guys are cutting for tundra?


 about 20" any longer gets tight any shorter and your wasting space.


----------



## Wisneaky

I sent an email from the drolet site yesterday morning. Someone called me within 2 hours. Great customer service, I asked a lot of questions and he gave me some great ideas to look into to help extend my burn time. I actually had a few problems. One of my heat runs going to my back porch was dumping cold air into my plenum. I also installed a 3 inch pipe from outside to let fresh air into my basement room. And my black stove pipe didn't have 1/4 inch rise per foot. I fixed everything and got a easy 9 hour burn time. Filled it at 10pm and at 7am still coals and 1/2 a log left before I filled it again and this was burning green white ash. Maintained my house a perfect 68 all night.


----------



## newyorker

How many full cords do you guys burn I understand the variables and its still a new furnace just kind of looking for guessstmits im trying to get ahead so I can have well seasoned wood I have about 5 fulls cords cut and stacked


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> How many full cords do you guys burn I understand the variables and its still a new furnace just kind of looking for guessstmits im trying to get ahead so I can have well seasoned wood I have about 5 fulls cords cut and stacked


 I haven't had mine that long either, but from the sounds of it less than 5 cords a year easy.


----------



## newyorker

I'm glad everything is working out for you I think I'm going to order a caddy next week only going with the caddy because I can get one for not to much more the tundra and there is a caddy dealer in my town which is a plus


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> I'm glad everything is working out for you I think I'm going to order a caddy next week only going with the caddy because I can get one for not to much more the tundra and there is a caddy dealer in my town which is a plus


 I don't know much about the caddy just that I can't afford one, but I like my tundra.


----------



## newyorker

The way I take it is the tundra is modeld after the caddy


----------



## djkost

When you guys talk about getting a 8 hour burn time are you running a thermostat or just shutting down the draft? How much wood are you putting in it?


----------



## Wisneaky

I'm consistently getting 8-10 hours burn time now. I have it hooked to a thermostat. I fill it completely full before bed.


----------



## djkost

I have mine hooked up too. I don't get 8 hour burns but I'm heating a large room plus my house. Does a good job once I get the room up in temp. Also I don't fill it full cause I burn only oak. Guess I'm getting use to the furnace. I tried changing the snap ththermo disk to a 130 -115 but it cycled to much and wasn't getting the heat so went back to the factory setting. Really like the furnace.


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> I have mine hooked up too. I don't get 8 hour burns but I'm heating a large room plus my house. Does a good job once I get the room up in temp. Also I don't fill it full cause I burn only oak. Guess I'm getting use to the furnace. I tried changing the snap ththermo disk to a 130 -115 but it cycled to much and wasn't getting the heat so went back to the factory setting. Really like the furnace.


 I've been burning oak also lately. If you want the burn times I'd fill it full, about an inch from burn tubes. I had a couple issues at first also with my burn time, but I emailed them and they called me right away and gave me lots of pointers.


----------



## djkost

What kinda of pointers?


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> What kinda of pointers?


 issues I had with my duct work and with my black pipe not having any rise to it.


----------



## djkost

I have a tee in the back of mine so I clean mine out without taking pipes off. I have a straight up chimney.


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> I have a tee in the back of mine so I clean mine out without taking pipes off. I have a straight up chimney.


 mine didn't have enough draft and my duct work was restricting the air flow


----------



## Wisneaky

I bought the cold air return kit and hooked it up yesterday. I don't understand the point of the other top mounted thermo disc. The temperature in my house actually seemed to drop a few degrees with the new thermo disc. Maybe more evened out and the blower doesn't run as much, but I noticed a huge drop in burn time. It was mild 20s yesterday and I was only getting about 6 hours of burn time before the house temp would drop. This is a big change going from 10-12 hours to only 6 I'm going to go back to the other thermodisc though because I'd rather have the burn time.


----------



## newyorker

Well that sucks I would deffentnly go back to what was working


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Well that sucks I would deffentnly go back to what was working


I know wish now I wouldn't have wasted the $130


----------



## Toddppm

Wisneaky said:


> I bought the cold air return kit and hooked it up yesterday. I don't understand the point of the other top mounted thermo disc. The temperature in my house actually seemed to drop a few degrees with the new thermo disc. Maybe more evened out and the blower doesn't run as much, but I noticed a huge drop in burn time. It was mild 20s yesterday and I was only getting about 6 hours of burn time before the house temp would drop. This is a big change going from 10-12 hours to only 6 I'm going to go back to the other thermodisc though because I'd rather have the burn time.




Just wondering why the Thermodisc would have anything to do with burn time? Doesn't it only control when the blower goes off and on?


----------



## newyorker

The cold AIr return should do nothing but help I would think


----------



## Wisneaky

Toddppm said:


> Just wondering why the Thermodisc would have anything to do with burn time? Doesn't it only control when the blower goes off and on?


 
with the other thermo disc the fire box runs 40 degrees higher so it burns more wood. 200 degrees and a low of 160 on the new disc and the stock one runs 160 degrees and a low of 120


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> The cold AIr return should do nothing but help I would think


 I can actually see the difference in the flame with the two discs. With the stock one when the damper closes there is barely a flame unless I'm getting a secondary burn. With the other disc the flame is much bigger when the damper closes.


----------



## Toddppm

So you have the thermodisc controlling your damper? Just had me a little confused as I just bought a Drolet wood stove and ordered the blower kit and thermodisc separately to control it.


----------



## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> I bought the cold air return kit and hooked it up yesterday. I don't understand the point of the other top mounted thermo disc. The temperature in my house actually seemed to drop a few degrees with the new thermo disc. Maybe more evened out and the blower doesn't run as much, but I noticed a huge drop in burn time. It was mild 20s yesterday and I was only getting about 6 hours of burn time before the house temp would drop. This is a big change going from 10-12 hours to only 6 I'm going to go back to the other thermodisc though because I'd rather have the burn time.





Wisneaky said:


> with the other thermo disc the fire box runs 40 degrees higher so it burns more wood. 200 degrees and a low of 160 on the new disc and the stock one runs 160 degrees and a low of 120





Wisneaky said:


> I can actually see the difference in the flame with the two discs. With the stock one when the damper closes there is barely a flame unless I'm getting a secondary burn. With the other disc the flame is much bigger when the damper closes.


This doesn't make sense. I could see the "heating" time going up or down a bit, but not the actual burn time and the flame size! (unless you are getting the blower air up through the ash plug, but I thought that issue was handled?


Toddppm said:


> Just wondering why the Thermodisc would have anything to do with burn time? Doesn't it only control when the blower goes off and on?


+1


----------



## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> This doesn't make sense. I could see the "heating" time going up or down a bit, but not the actual burn time and the flame size! (unless you are getting the blower air up through the ash plug, but I thought that issue was handled?
> 
> +1[/quote
> higher temp more burn. Not hard to understand. If you'd like a video I can post one.


----------



## newyorker

Can you not use the new one or maybe adjust it?


----------



## brenndatomu

Higher temp does not necessarily mean less burn time, if anything, there will be heat for longer. That's how it works for me anyways. 
The only way you are getting shorter burn time is if there is more air going through the firebox. Now, with that said, it is possible that the higher temps are warming the chimney more, increasing the draft, therefore more air through the firebox. Maybe time for a baro?
But hey, in the end, it's your stove, your house, and you gotta do what's best for you n yours, and if the other switch works better, get 'er done! 
I just wonder why they are changing the blower run temp just for adding a cold air return? Just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I miss having Fyrebug here, he'd have an answer for this question in a heartbeat.


----------



## 82mkiiltype

I can see people are confusing the "Fan control snap disk" with the "High Limit snap disk." It gets even more complicated as the cold air return kit comes with a replacement and relocation kit for the "high limit snap disk"

A different high limit snap disk in a different location will absolutely effect burn times, especially if it's hooked to a thermostat. As long as the thermostat is calling for heat, it's the High limit snap disk that is opening and closing the damper.


----------



## Wisneaky

82mkiiltype said:


> I can see people are confusing the "Fan control snap disk" with the "High Limit snap disk." It gets even more complicated as the cold air return kit comes with a replacement and relocation kit for the "high limit snap disk"
> 
> A different high limit snap disk in a different location will absolutely effect burn times, especially if it's hooked to a thermostat. As long as the thermostat is calling for heat, it's the High limit snap disk that is opening and closing the damper.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## newyorker

get it all figured out wisneaky?


----------



## Wisneaky

I have had a baro on for awhile.


----------



## newyorker

I mean the snap disk and shorter burn times


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> I mean the snap disk and shorter burn times


factory snap disc I still have no problems except the blower runs more, other one still the same thing I don't get the burn time. I tried it last night again and same thing about 6 hours only.


----------



## flotek

You should easily get 10 hrs of burn time I've gotten as much as 15 hrs before . Whatever your doing I'd go back to the drawing board and be sure your wood is dry and well seasoned that in itself makes a huge difference in burn times


----------



## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> You should easily get 10 hrs of burn time I've gotten as much as 15 hrs before . Whatever your doing I'd go back to the drawing board and be sure your wood is dry and well seasoned that in itself makes a huge difference in burn times


 do you have the cold air return kit?


----------



## just tring to stay warm

newyorker said:


> How many full cords do you guys burn I understand the variables and its still a new furnace just kind of looking for guessstmits im trying to get ahead so I can have well seasoned wood I have about 5 fulls cords cut and stacked



i hope you dont use that much. 10 face max. if you burn more than that. then you should invest in insulating your home


----------



## Wisneaky

when you check draft on these things do you do it with the front damper open or closed?


----------



## brenndatomu

Either/both. If you have a baro, it will keep draft the same no matter the damper position. Just make sure you run 'er hard for a few minutes before you test, to make sure the chimney is fully warmed up.


----------



## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Either/both. If you have a baro, it will keep draft the same no matter the damper position. Just make sure you run 'er hard for a few minutes before you test, to make sure the chimney is fully warmed up.


with it shut it runs -.04 to -.06 with open it was -.06 to -.09 I know the book says not to go over -.08 but I wouldn't think that little bit would make a huge difference. Where exactly do you measure it at? I tried two different places about 6 inches out the back and I tried it again about a foot or so away. The readings were lower closer to the back of the furnace.


----------



## brenndatomu

Here is the Field Controls install manual for a type RC baro, really common model on wood burners. http://www.fieldcontrols.com/pdfs/04592700.pdf


----------



## flotek

A high draft speed will send the heat right up your flue this is more critical on these type furnaces because they rely on the natural draft principle to get all their air from the intake flap . Not enough and it smolders with creosote buildup... too much draft and it flares up and sends your heat right out the flue with short burn times


----------



## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> A high draft speed will send the heat right up your flue this is more critical on these type furnaces because they rely on the natural draft principle to get all their air from the intake flap . Not enough and it smolders with creosote buildup... too much draft and it flares up and sends your heat right out the flue with short burn times[/quote
> 
> *I'm pretty sure I'm right within draft specs. That's why I was wondering where to actually test the draft at. Because if its the lower part im right on and if it is up higher im at -.09 which is barely over the -.08 max*


----------



## brenndatomu

Anywhere between the baro and the furnace should be fine as long as you are away from any elbows/tees, just a straight run of pipe.


----------



## Wisneaky

another question for you all. I got a Honeywell thermostat on this thing, how many cycles per hour should I set it at?


----------



## Wisneaky

For those of you that have this furnace I have another question, I filled it completely up tonight and I am now checking on it two hours later and pretty much all the wood is burnt and the firebox is almost to filled to top with coals is this how your tundras burn?


----------



## newyorker

Mine sits on a pallet in the basement so im not much help but I would say somethimg is wrong possibly to much air i would think the secondarys. Should be fireing strong and should still be in log form


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> Mine sits on a pallet in the basement so im not much help but I would say somethimg is wrong possibly to much air i would think the secondarys. Should be fireing strong and should still be in log form


Did you buy the Tundra? Thanks though I talked with the sbi tech and he had me switch my thermostat to a different one that has a swing setting and he had me set it to 2 degree swing now I'm back to a full 10 hour burn. He said that sometimes people have issues with burn times on the thermostats that run on cycles per hour.


----------



## Wisneaky

For anyone who is looking into buying a tundra, SBI is very helpful if you have any questions they will call or email you. Also for some reason my vermiculite baffle cracked in half and they are sending me a new one and a couple firebricks that were broken when I received it. If you ask me their service and support is great.


----------



## newyorker

I ended up getting the caddy but they bare very similar made by s

bi


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> For anyone who is looking into buying a tundra, SBI is very helpful if you have any questions they will call or email you. Also for some reason my vermiculite baffle cracked in half and they are sending me a new one and a couple firebricks that were broken when I received it. If you ask me their service and support is great.


let me know how it is replacing that. i still cant get my burn tubes out.


----------



## flotek

May I ask what you got your caddy for $ they are really nice


----------



## newyorker

A little less then 2400 out the door with blower and fan limit Switch


----------



## newyorker

I bought it never seen one before and very impressed with the quality


----------



## Wisneaky

newyorker said:


> I bought it never seen one before and very impressed with the quality


what is the difference between the caddy and the tundra? They are both made by sbi, right?


----------



## Deleted member 83629

ugh i need the finances for one of those. i use a old smoke dragon a ashley circulator and it rolls the heat and a fire will last 15 hrs filled up. but holy god it will clog up a flue with junk.


----------



## newyorker

Wisneaky said:


> what is the difference between the caddy and the tundra? They are both made by sbi, right?


Yea I'm not sure to much what the difference is I think the tundra is more of a lower end box store brand and their caddy is higher end the caddy has a plenum and the tundra doesnt which produces more BTUs


----------



## newyorker

When I was ready to buy I called the northeast salesman for SDI and he said the tundra was for a DIY and needed some tinkering and the caddy was perfection lol and the price really wasn't that much more


----------



## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> let me know how it is replacing that. i still cant get my burn tubes out.


 So I replaced the baffle. The burn tubes where a little pain to get out. I rotated them first about 10 times then was able to stick a flathead screw driver in the slot to push it out the rest of the way. The reason they don't come out good is because the metal shrinks and the ends expand because the way they are notched from the heat of the furnace. I emailed SBI and let them know about the problem and that I think the burn tubes should be heat treated before installed at the factory. They were going to send my information to the design department.


----------



## djkost

Question for Tundra owners ? Are you satisfied with its performace ? I am after using it this winter.


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> Question for Tundra owners ? Are you satisfied with its performace ? I am after using it this winter.


 Yes I am. I live in Wisconsin and we had a pretty long winter. I had mine going for a little over a month and I haven't used my LP furnace since and with the way LP was I saved at least $900 so far in LP cost at the $3.69 I paid for it. I know for awhile LP was close to $6 a gallon here so I probably even saved more money.


----------



## oldbloke

I just discovered this furnace and am looking at buying one. Can someone explain the ash pan "problem" to me please? I understand that the forced air blows through the ashes and into the duct work? I don't see how this could be legal from a safety standards point of view. Also, anyone have any serious complaints or likes about the furnace? Thanks.


----------



## Wisneaky

oldbloke said:


> I just discovered this furnace and am looking at buying one. Can someone explain the ash pan "problem" to me please? I understand that the forced air blows through the ashes and into the duct work? I don't see how this could be legal from a safety standards point of view. Also, anyone have any serious complaints or likes about the furnace? Thanks.


I don't have any problems with my ash pan. The ash pan should only have ashes in it when it is time to clean it. Pull ash pan plug, put ashes in, pull pan and dump ashes. Ashes in pan are to be dumped right away and not to be left in pan when furnace is burning wood. I haven't had any problem and don't see how it could be a problem unless someone leaves the ashes in the pan.


----------



## oldbloke

Ok, so the ashes don't just fall into the pan while the fire burns? I was thinking they just dropped through some grates. I might now be understanding this. Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## Wisneaky

oldbloke said:


> Ok, so the ashes don't just fall into the pan while the fire burns? I was thinking they just dropped through some grates. I might now be understanding this. Thanks for the quick reply!


yes, there is no fire grate. There is fire brick on the bottom and a plug. After about a week or so usually in the morning when the fire is died down I will pull the plug and put the ashes in the pan. I pull the pan and dump.


----------



## oldbloke

That's awesome news. I have a Drolet Austral woodstove and that's how it works too. I can live with that. Thanks again!


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## Wisneaky

oldbloke said:


> That's awesome news. I have a Drolet Austral woodstove and that's how it works too. I can live with that. Thanks again!


no problem. So far I really like it.


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## NSMaple1

Instead of messing with the plug & pan, couldn't you just scoop them out with an ash shovel?


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## oldbloke

That would make sense. It would keep the ash pan area clean and no ash etc would blow out from around it. I emailed Drolet and they replied that they have sealed off the ash pan and that it is no longer a problem.


----------



## NSMaple1

I don't have a Drolet, but my boiler has an ash pan.

It might be handy at the time to just pull the ashes out & let them fall in the pan - but before long you've got this big awkward pan full of ashes you have to do something with. I find it much easier to just scoop an ash shovel full out, into a 5 gallon metal foundation coating bucket, every time I light a fire. When the bucket gets full, I take it outside & dump it. Much easier carrying a foundation coating bucket than an ash pan.


----------



## blades

hope that ain't a plastic bucket.


----------



## NSMaple1

Well, I did say it was metal.


----------



## goatguy

So, with my old furnace setup. During the summer, I could flip the switch and run just the fan if I wanted, that way I could cycle the cool air from the basement up to the mainfloor, worked pretty good in the shoulder season and kept me from running the AC for probably a good few weeks each fall and spring. 

However, that stove is gone and replaced with a Tundra, anyone know how to manually trip this circulation fan for this stove so that I don't have to put the AC in yet?


----------



## brenndatomu

I think you'll hafta wire in a switch to do what you want. Just hook up to the same two wires that go to the thermo switch now, wahlah, "auto" or "manual"


----------



## brando89

Hi everyone, I figured I would get on here for help. I bought a new heat max from family farm and home brought.it home and everything is hooked up and working, except anything electronic. No damper function what so ever no blower. I burned a nice fire with door cracked for about three hours and still nothing. Im lost here. Any ideas would be awsome.


----------



## Wisneaky

brando89 said:


> Hi everyone, I figured I would get on here for help. I bought a new heat max from family farm and home brought.it home and everything is hooked up and working, except anything electronic. No damper function what so ever no blower. I burned a nice fire with door cracked for about three hours and still nothing. Im lost here. Any ideas would be awsome.


So with the electrical cord hooked up there is no power? That's weird. Call or email SBI, I'm sure they will help."Tech SBI" <[email protected]>


----------



## brando89

Wisneaky said:


> So with tIe electrical cord hooked up there is no power? That's weird. Call or email SBI, I'm sure they will help."Tech SBI" <[email protected]>


Yes nothing works at all and it is a good outlet where do i find any. Contact info.


----------



## Wisneaky

This is the email [email protected]


----------



## Wisneaky

You could open up that back panel where the switch is also. There is some connectors in there that could be loose also.


----------



## brando89

Wisneaky said:


> You could open up that back panel where the switch is also. There is some connectors in there that could be loose also.


I have checked the connections and found no obvious issues.


----------



## flotek

Just call the tech line and ask they will walk you through the list for possible issues . It's likely something simple


----------



## trx250r87

I just noticed a fair amount of rust all over the front, painted black areas of my almost year old Drolet Tundra. This is in my basement about 4' from my dehumidifier which was set at 50% all year. My last stove never had this issue. Has anyone else noticed any rust on your stove?


----------



## Wisneaky

trx250r87 said:


> I just noticed a fair amount of rust all over the front, painted black areas of my almost year old Drolet Tundra. This is in my basement about 4' from my dehumidifier which was set at 50% all year. My last stove never had this issue. Has anyone else noticed any rust on your stove?


I honestly haven't noticed any rust on mine and my basement was pretty wet until I got the new gutters put up.


----------



## trx250r87

My house is 3 years old and I have zero water or moisture issues. I don't look at the furnace often but I think this happened recently.


----------



## laynes69

Do you disconnect your flue pipe in the off season? I do, specifically due to the chance of warm moist air coming down the chimney and condensing on and in my furnace. Seen it too many times.


----------



## trx250r87

laynes69, I have not disconnected the last 3 wood furnaces I have owned and it has never been a problem before. I can't see how warm air can go down a flue. My basement is pretty cool and warm air should rise.


----------



## Wisneaky

trx250r87 said:


> laynes69, I have not disconnected the last 3 wood furnaces I have owned and it has never been a problem before. I can't see how warm air can go down a flue. My basement is pretty cool and warm air should rise.


I don't disconnect mine either. Before I got the gutters put on my humidity level was about 80% in the basement, now its down to about 55%. Maybe some bad paint they put on.


----------



## laynes69

Our basement has a dehumidifier and I keep it at 75%, otherwise our basement pegs at 100%. It's an old home with a very leaky basement. There's been numerous times when the wind had hit the chimney in the summertime and the air would pour down our 32' chimney and into our basement. The old furnace had it so bad there was a puddle under it from the condensation. Since then I cap the top of the chimney for the season and disconnect the fluepipe. I use a dessicant in the furnace just for my peace of mind.


----------



## flotek

My drolet is fine but I do use a dehumidifier , it's. Not rusty at all and we even had some flooding issue this spring too , in fact my old Englander has had far more light surface rust than the heatmax does


----------



## 82mkiiltype

brando89 said:


> Hi everyone, I figured I would get on here for help. I bought a new heat max from family farm and home brought.it home and everything is hooked up and working, except anything electronic. No damper function what so ever no blower. I burned a nice fire with door cracked for about three hours and still nothing. Im lost here. Any ideas would be awsome.



The electric circuit on these is very simply from a troubleshooting point of view. There is even a full wiring diagram in the manual.

I'd take off the small back panel on the electrical box, plug in the furnace and change the damper override switch position ever 10 seconds or so. Watch the damper control wheel to see if it turns about a 1/4 turn back and forth. See if the rod has fallen out of one of the holes in the wheel. My unit was bumped around when delivered and my control rod fell out. I couldn't get the draft to open at all. Guaranteed, without that draft open, you didn't get the firebox hot enough to trigger the fans.

Oh, and as an overall update, the furnace is fantastic. Maybe a bit cheap in construction, but for the price fantastic. I still haven't hooked up any duct work and it heats my two story house. I burn a lot of dead, standing ash and elm. Half punky and almost soft. It pulls heat out of the worst quality wood as long as it's dry...


----------



## Wisneaky

82mkiiltype said:


> The electric circuit on these is very simply from a troubleshooting point of view. There is even a full wiring diagram in the manual.
> 
> I'd take off the small back panel on the electrical box, plug in the furnace and change the damper override switch position ever 10 seconds or so. Watch the damper control wheel to see if it turns about a 1/4 turn back and forth. See if the rod has fallen out of one of the holes in the wheel. My unit was bumped around when delivered and my control rod fell out. I couldn't get the draft to open at all. Guaranteed, without that draft open, you didn't get the firebox hot enough to trigger the fans.
> 
> Oh, and as an overall update, the furnace is fantastic. Maybe a bit cheap in construction, but for the price fantastic. I still haven't hooked up any duct work and it heats my two story house. I burn a lot of dead, standing ash and elm. Half punky and almost soft. It pulls heat out of the worst quality wood as long as it's dry...


I agree they put out amazing heat. I originally had back draft dampers in my heat ducts because I run mine into my LP furnace plenum and the diagram says to put them in, but I started thinking if the power goes out then the heat wont go anywhere because they only open if the blower blows. So I took the dampers out and now the heat will rise up through the ducts all the time and now it will keep the house 70 degrees for 15 to 17 hours normally.


----------



## Wisneaky

I love just watching this thing burn.


----------



## zogger

Wisneaky said:


> I love just watching this thing burn.




Very nice!


----------



## Everett

Can i use 6 inch duct work on my drolet heatmax just got today also one run of duct is goining to be close to regester is that fine new to doin this duct work


----------



## flotek

Watch necking down the sizes .. You get back pressure and the unit can't dissipate the heat and as a result could run hotter than normal and besides you'll get less heat


----------



## Everett

Wut size duct is best 8 inch round or square style the farthest register is only gunna be 15-20 feet closest is bout 5 feet will that be a problem does the air return feature a must or no big diffrence either way


----------



## Everett

Why is it when u buy the filter kit it comes with 2 caps and only 1 filter


----------



## trx250r87

I'm running dual 6" with my setup. I just upped the fan speed and it seems fine.


----------



## Everett

trx250r87 said:


> I'm running dual 6" with my setup. I just upped the fan speed and it seems fine.


Did u start out w 6 right from the start or did u reduce it down after a couple feet of 8 inch


----------



## trx250r87

I have about 24" of 8" connected to the stove. My back draft dampers are at the top of the 8" ducts, then converts to 6" for about 4' where both ducts dump into my main furnace ducts.


----------



## Everett

[QUOTE="trx250r87, post: 5002649, member: 913dI have about 24" of 8" connected to the stove. My back draft dampers are at the top of the 8" ducts, then converts to 6" for about 4' where both ducts dump into my main furnace ducts.[/QUOTE]
The only thing with me is i guta run all the duct work and 6 inch i wouldnt bang my head of in my basment after i give it a 1 ish of clerence but 8 inch i probly would disadvantages of being tall


----------



## Wisneaky

Everett said:


> [QUOTE="trx250r87, post: 5002649, member: 913dI have about 24" of 8" connected to the stove. My back draft dampers are at the top of the 8" ducts, then converts to 6" for about 4' where both ducts dump into my main furnace ducts.


The only thing with me is i guta run all the duct work and 6 inch i wouldnt bang my head of in my basment after i give it a 1 ish of clerence but 8 inch i probly would disadvantages of being tall[/QUOTE]
you'd be better off running the two 8" rounds into a square main trunk, run the main trunk the length of the house and then run the 6" duct off the main trunk. The main trunk should be 8"x14" to handle the air flow from the two 8" rounds coming off the furnace.


----------



## Everett

Wisneaky said:


> The only thing with me is i guta run all the duct work and 6 inch i wouldnt bang my head of in my basment after i give it a 1 ish of clerence but 8 inch i probly would disadvantages of being tall


you'd be better off running the two 8" rounds into a square main trunk, run the main trunk the length of the house and then run the 6" duct off the main trunk. The main trunk should be 8"x14" to handle the air flow from the two 8" rounds coming off the furnace.[/QUOTE]
I dont have a very big house ranch style 1400 square feet with 400 being a breezeway how many registers should i have


----------



## Wisneaky

Everett said:


> you'd be better off running the two 8" rounds into a square main trunk, run the main trunk the length of the house and then run the 6" duct off the main trunk. The main trunk should be 8"x14" to handle the air flow from the two 8" rounds coming off the furnace.


I dont have a very big house ranch style 1400 square feet with 400 being a breezeway how many registers should i have[/QUOTE]
one register per room usually. What are the sizes of the rooms?


----------



## Everett

[QaverageWisneaky, post: 5002745, member: 120868"]I dont have a very big house ranch style 1400 square feet with 400 being a breezeway how many registers should i have[/QUOTE]
one register per room usually. What are the sizes of the rooms?[/QUOTE]
3 average sized bed rooms and open living dining kitchen area i was thinking just couple big ones on each end of house


----------



## Wisneaky

Everett said:


> [QaverageWisneaky, post: 5002745, member: 120868"]I dont have a very big house ranch style 1400 square feet with 400 being a breezeway how many registers should i have


one register per room usually. What are the sizes of the rooms?[/QUOTE]
3 average sized bed rooms and open living dining kitchen area i was thinking just couple big ones on each end of house[/QUOTE]
Is this a new house with no duct work or did you have forced air heat prior?


----------



## Everett

[QUOTE="Wisneaky, post: 5002794, 
Is this a new house with no duct work or did you have forced air heat prior?[/QUOTE]
It has a old oil boiler no duct work just adding the furnace instead of a old style woodstove figured the heatmax was a better choice


----------



## brenndatomu

Everett said:


> Can i use 6 inch duct work on my drolet heatmax just got today also one run of duct is goining to be close to regester is that fine new to doin this duct work


I'd stick with 8". (2) 6" pipes gives almost 1/2 the airflow that 8" does. 54 sq inches vs 96 respectively. Go with square if you need the head room


----------



## Wisneaky

If you only ran two lines of duct I'd be worried about the bedrooms being cold without the proper air flow. If you have the money you'd be much better off having a HVAC company come in and run the duct work properly. If you use the cold air return I've noticed more heat from the furnace because it isn't trying to heat the real cold air from my basement and is recycling the air from from the rooms up stairs, either way it heats good though. If it was me and my house I would for sure run separate duct to each room. Probably 6" duct to each bedroom and the open area kitchen, dining, living room I'd do 8" duct if you only want to do one duct or I'd run two or three 6" in that area. My house is small also about 1100 square feet and I have 7 register vents in it, One in each of the 3 bedrooms, 1 in each of the two bathrooms, 1 that heats the living room kitchen area, and 1 on that back porch.


----------



## Everett

How does the cold air return take air from upstairs wut u think a hvac company would cost eventually id like to have more registers i was just guna start out w the 2 and ussally leave bedroom doors open so theyd get heat


----------



## Wisneaky

Everett said:


> How does the cold air return take air from upstairs wut u think a hvac company would cost eventually id like to have more registers i was just guna start out w the 2 and ussally leave bedroom doors open so theyd get heat


cold air return actually draws air from upstairs back into the furnace and reheats it. It would be more duct work to run that though. HVAC probably charge $800 or more to run duct work. I was quoted $800 for mine and $1200 by another company. Instead I did it myself for about 1/2 the price.


----------



## 046

what's the costs?


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## Wisneaky

046 said:


> what's the costs?


of what?


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## brenndatomu

Depending on how your house is framed, returns are often times just boxed in joist bays. Buy a roll of 16" wide sheet metal and nails, wham bam...
Shouldn't add too much to the overall cost


----------



## djkost

How often do you clean the after burner tubes on your tundra?


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> How often do you clean the after burner tubes on your tundra?


I haven't cleaned them, but I did pull them out to change my baffle because it broke.


----------



## DaveMI

Ive been researching getting a wood furnace again and have read this whole thread on the tundra and am thinking about getting one but am also going to look at the caddy too.

I have a question about possibly burning some corn on the cob in this furnace also. I have a limited supply of wood that I can cut per year on my property and I want to avoid having to buy much wood but i have the room and equipment to grow a couple acres of field corn every year.

What Im thinking is that i could mix in maybe 25% or so of dried corn on the cob in with my seasoned black locust when i load it up?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## zogger

DaveMI said:


> Ive been researching getting a wood furnace again and have read this whole thread on the tundra and am thinking about getting one but am also going to look at the caddy too.
> 
> I have a question about possibly burning some corn on the cob in this furnace also. I have a limited supply of wood that I can cut per year on my property and I want to avoid having to buy much wood but i have the room and equipment to grow a couple acres of field corn every year.
> 
> What Im thinking is that i could mix in maybe 25% or so of dried corn on the cob in with my seasoned black locust when i load it up?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2



I imagine you could but...I'd grow the corn, get a feeder calf, buy some bales, fatten that dude up, sell him, buy whatever wood ya need....


----------



## DaveMI

I have a pasture and already raise feeder steer for myself but i finish them on alf/clvr/grass and almost no grain.



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## zogger

DaveMI said:


> I have a pasture and already raise feeder steer for myself but i finish them on alf/clvr/grass and almost no grain.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2



Ya, I like the all grass fed myself, that's what I raise, but a lot of folks like that extra fat/marbling.


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## Whitespider

We like everything corn-fed here... except our internal combustion engines 
We ship that corn fuel to y'all 
Thanks for buying 
*


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## flotek

I don't see why they wouldn't burn great... With corn the big thing is moisture ..you gotta get it down to an acceptable level especially if you want decent secondary combustion otherwise it will smolder


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## Wisneaky

that would be interesting if it burns corn.


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## laynes69

The byproducts of burning corn can be very corrosive. I don't know if I would attempt it.


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## djkost

Well it is 34 degrees here in north mn. Time to start burning again. Hope it is a better winter then last year.


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## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> Well it is 34 degrees here in north mn. Time to start burning again. Hope it is a better winter then last year.


I'm in northern Wisconsin. I got mine going also.


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## DaveMI

Thanks for the respose guys. I plan on going to look at a caddy this week and menards is running there 11% rebate right now so if i decide on tbe tundra I have to get it by the end of the week.

If I get one of these two i may just buy a few bushes of corn/cob to try out before i plant for next years supply.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Wisneaky

DaveMI said:


> Thanks for the respose guys. I plan on going to look at a caddy this week and menards is running there 11% rebate right now so if i decide on tbe tundra I have to get it by the end of the week.
> 
> If I get one of these two i may just buy a few bushes of corn/cob to try out before i plant for next years supply.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


when I bought mine I got it from menards also because they included the filter kit with it. Not sure if they still do though.


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## DaveMI

Yeah they still include it. $1799 and almost $200 off for the rebate. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Wisneaky

DaveMI said:


> Yeah they still include it. $1799 and almost $200 off for the rebate.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


yeah. That's a pretty good deal. I picked mine up at the local store after they shipped it next day, but I'm only 60 miles from their main office and distribution center.


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## flotek

Northern tool they are selling them for 1699


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## djkost

15-20 degree friday here in nw mn. Way to early for this.


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## brenndatomu

Anybody know what's up with the Tundra? I told someone to check 'em out at Menerds, but now they don't list them on their site anymore. I just checked at the Northern tool site, it said no longer available...?


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## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Anybody know what's up with the Tundra? I told someone to check 'em out at Menerds, but now they don't list them on their site anymore. I just checked at the Northern tool site, it said no longer available...?


I'm not sure.


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## brenndatomu

I think I figured it out, I was on two other sites that said out of stock until Jan. 12th 2015! The Rural King site shows that _all_ the Drolet products are factory shipped _and_ out of stock  Must be swamped! Think I'll go throw another log in the Yukon now...


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## djkost

Has anything changed on the tundra. I saw one in medards, it looked different then the one I bought last year.


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## DaveMI

I ordered one a couple weeks ago from menards but havent went and picked it up yet. The guy said they fixed some issues that the previous ones had but i didnt talk to him much about it.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## brenndatomu

djkost said:


> Has anything changed on the tundra. I saw one in medards, it looked different then the one I bought last year.


What looked different? Do you have the Tundra or Heatmax? They are different colors I believe, maybe there's more?


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## djkost

I have the tundra, the new one seemed smaller in size. I never measured it.


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## centennial60

I have one sitting in my garage. Ordered it from Menards..still in the crate need to find time to at least uncrate it and look it over.


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## djkost

hey measure yours and include the door. I like mine it works good. I think the ash box is smaller on the new model. I never put the update kit in mine since I just shovel the ash out. I see no reason to llift that heavy box out of the stove.


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## centennial60

I'll have to do that tonight when I get home from work. Been itching to take a look at it anyway. The unit on display looked small to me too but I'm used to feeding a Yukon super jack.


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## 3fordasho

I ordered my on 11/15 from Menards - they said 7 days or 11/22. Order tracker has not moved from order placed. :-( I was really hoping to install it this weekend. A January delivery will be problematic for me....

Update: Menards order tracker says my Tundra is in transit 
I guess there must still be some in their system.


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## centennial60

Got some measurements. 29.5" long 26" wide 39.5" tall. Door glass is 12.25" x 10" including the arch at the top. Door opening is 13.5 x 11.25". Can't wait to get this thing installed!


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## KARB2014

Wisneaky said:


> Did you buy the Tundra? Thanks though I talked with the sbi tech and he had me switch my thermostat to a different one that has a swing setting and he had me set it to 2 degree swing now I'm back to a full 10 hour burn. He said that sometimes people have issues with burn times on the thermostats that run on cycles per hour.


I have a question for you. When you changed the thermostat did you also change back to the 200 deg high limit snap disc? Or are you still running the 160? I ordered my Tundra through Menards with the filter kit and it came with the 200 deg limit switch install on top. I'm having a tough time getting more that 7 hours of burn time with dry hardwoods. I'm getting really nice secondary burns. My house is 980 sq/ft. Its not insulated as its a brick on terracotta house, But I do have the attic insulated. I have a barometric damper installed and no 90's two 45's. I live in Pittsburgh, PA. I'm thinking I need to lower my high limit because when my thermostat calls for heat it has the draft opened for almost 35-40 mins to get the house back to 71-72.


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## KARB2014

Also for those of you that have changed to the adjustable thermodisc 3505-1 is it flush on the bottom? The one I pick up from a local HVAC supply house is protruding about 0.250 past the mounting flange. Is this safe to mount right on the jacket and use spacers or did I buy the wrong one? Sorry for the questions but I have never dealt with thermodisc's.


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## spadjen

Anyone having any issues with there heatmax or tundra? Check your units over with light and tell me if anyone notices any problems with theirs. Just curious on how they are holding up for people on there 2nd+ year.


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## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> Anyone having any issues with there heatmax or tundra? Check your units over with light and tell me if anyone notices any problems with theirs. Just curious on how they are holding up for people on there 2nd+ year.


2nd year. No problems that I notice.


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## centennial60

djkost said:


> hey measure yours and include the door. I like mine it works good. I think the ash box is smaller on the new model. I never put the update kit in mine since I just shovel the ash out. I see no reason to llift that heavy box out of the stove.


Did you ever get a chance to measure your tundra and compare specs?


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## flotek

2nd year no issues


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## 3fordasho

Ordered mine on the 15th from Menards, it arrived on the 22nd just like they said it would. Menards guy couldn't find it on their website either, but they have a display unit and it does come up in the store inventory system.





brenndatomu said:


> Anybody know what's up with the Tundra? I told someone to check 'em out at Menerds, but now they don't list them on their site anymore. I just checked at the Northern tool site, it said no longer available...?


----------



## djkost

When you let your tundra shut down do you leave the air intake open or do you close it? I looked in the book but it doesn't say.


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## djkost

My measurements are the same as yours. Must look different in the store.


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## brenndatomu

3fordasho said:


> Ordered mine on the 15th from Menards, it arrived on the 22nd just like they said it would. Menards guy couldn't find it on their website either, but they have a display unit and it does come up in the store inventory system.


Yeah, I looked a couple days later and they were back on Menards site... I dunno


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## flotek

djkost said:


> When you let your tundra shut down do you leave the air intake open or do you close it? I looked in the book but it doesn't say.




In order to " shutdown " the air flap must be down on the tundra there is no other way to regulate air besides the main flap - which works out surprisingly good


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## djkost

Flotek, do you know any product that can be used to stop creasote build up. I read about using cans but is there a product I could buy to help slow build up? Also need to make sure it is safe to use in the tundra and super vent pipe. Any one using a product that works please post it. I normally clean my chimney once a month with a poly brush, might be to often but iI feelfeel safer.


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## newyorker

You shouldn't have that much creasote I clean mine once a month which is over kill but its pretty easy iv never needed anything to help keep chimney clean


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## newyorker

Iv never heard of super vent but if its rated for wood I'm sure its fine


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## flotek

There is a product to stop creosote and the good news is it's totally free . It's called elbow grease . It's free to be prepared ..Basically you make sure you have cut split and stacked your wood atleast one year in advance and it will then have low moisture which is going to burn clean and prevent creosote


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## firebrick43

djkost said:


> Flotek, do you know any product that can be used to stop creasote build up. I read about using cans but is there a product I could buy to help slow build up? Also need to make sure it is safe to use in the tundra and super vent pipe. Any one using a product that works please post it. I normally clean my chimney once a month with a poly brush, might be to often but iI feelfeel safer.



What size of chimney, it's construction, height, and outside wall or in the house??


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## djkost

It is 6inch, single wall to supervent. Its about 20 ft tall. All inside except maybe 8 ft. My wood is dry. Oak is 2-3 years old. Test at 12-15 on meter. I cleaned my chimney once a month last year but this year hoping to only do it once every 2 so I was looklooking something for it.


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## DaveMI

Im one step closer to getting mine installed, hopefully will have it in the basement next weekend.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## flotek

My advise is Get a sooteater kit for cleaning your flue . Sometimes called " the chimney whip " it works awesome and only 60$ You can clean from inside out unlike the brush /push rod kits. Fast easy and far less dangerous then going up on the icy roof in the winter


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## djkost

I have whip and have cleaned from bottom up. Once a month last year only took out a small amount. I really like the tundra. I don't burn at night cause I work. Just wondering since the internal temp on the pipe gets to around 500 then fan kicks in and lowers it. Once the house warms up and the furnace is on the thermostat the stack runs at 250 or so I was looking for a product tthat could be used.


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## flotek

If your burning good dry wood . Cleaning your heat exchanger tubes and chimney whipping the flue out once a month then I just don't see any reason to waste money on additives . You shouldn't require any .yes There are products on the market like a chimney sweep log that help turn creosote hard glaze into the flaky easy to get off stuff but the part a lot of guys don't get is most of these products ---. A - don't replace sweeping or stop creosote they only make sweeping easier. . And --B - they have compounds that ultimately corrode and eat at stainless steel , if your like me with well over 1,000$ in your stainless flue ..then that is the last thing you want to toss into the firebox !


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## 3fordasho

Installed my Tundra in the last week and have completed a couple break in burns. I'm trying to evaluate if I need a barometric damper. I understand you want the chimney at normal operating temp when taking manometer readings, but where should the furnace be as far as air inlet damper? open or shut down for cruise mode? Manometer readings were anywhere from .05" to .09" dependant on how hard the furnace was running ( high side with open damper) and on the lower side when the air inlet was closed down.


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## brenndatomu

I would think if you see a -.09" WC at any point in the burn cycle then you are gonna want a BD, or at least a key damper...the closer you can keep your draft in that -.05" range the better

Oh, and pics help us help you better...


----------



## 3fordasho

brenndatomu said:


> I would think if you see a -.09" WC at any point in the burn cycle then you are gonna want a BD, or at least a key damper...the closer you can keep your draft in that -.05" range the better
> 
> Oh, and pics help us help you better...



Well - I only have a crappy cell phone pic for now....

I've ordered what I need to install a BD - still on the fence if I'll install it or not. Last night I established a good coal bed with smaller splits and then loaded it up with 6 or 7 medium size splits, let em char and then closed it down for cruise mode - first time it sustained secondary burn and maintained flue temps around 300f. (previous burns the secondarys would die after 15-20mns and flue temps would drop low ~200F when shut down) At this point I checked draft and it was right at .055"WC. Leave it be or install the BD?


More info on the install - Furnace installed in lowest level of 3400 sqft split level home. Tundra will share heating duties with a Woodstock progress hybrid installed in front of the masonary fireplace. Chimney for the Tundra is not the ideal interior install - double wall connector pipe up to class A coming through a basement window- 18' of insulated supervent outside. Chimney was reverse drafting on initial start up - has not been a big issue since the original firing. Tundra hot air ducting is as follows- 2-8" ducts 24" straight up - elbows, then 48" of angled run to the propane furnace plenum. No backdraft dampers anywhere yet - seems to work fine but I realize they will be necessary for a/c use in the summer. Filter kit installed on the tundra - no connection to propane furnace return air ducting.


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## brenndatomu

3fordasho said:


> I checked draft and it was right at .055"WC. Leave it be or install the BD?


Hmm, Id be tempted to run it as is to get a better feel for your average draft over time with variations in weather and whatnot. If you average in that -.05" range most of the time, IMO, leave 'er be, you'll have a cleaner chimney without the BD cooling it.
I actually have HD tinfoil over my BD right now, using a key damper to keep things in check instead (the chimney wants to pull -.09" or better without it) I'll use the BD if again I need to use the oil side of my Yukon


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## laynes69

Personally, I wouldn't install the baro. Those spikes in draft will reduce when the damper closes. I've ran my Caddy in the .1 range with no problems. The flue temps for a draft like that with an open damper sounds just fine.


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## flotek

First off Your thermometer readings are meaningless because your using a cheap magnet job those are known to be 100 degrees off . Secondly your flue will not get hot because the furnace draws a great deal of btus off the wood and keeps it in the firebox instead of going up the flue . It will always have a low flue reading number even when burning a raging load of oak. It's part of having a modern wood heating unit


----------



## 3fordasho

I do have a cheap magnetic job on the heat exchanger clean out door. I also have a TelTru probe type thermometer inserted into the connector pipe about 12" above the flue exit. That is where my readings came from, not the cheapy that is visible in the picture. 





flotek said:


> First off Your thermometer readings are meaningless because your using a cheap magnet job those are known to be 100 degrees off . Secondly your flue will not get hot because the furnace draws a great deal of btus off the wood and keeps it in the firebox instead of going up the flue . It will always have a low flue reading number even when burning a raging load of oak. It's part of having a modern wood heating unit


----------



## flotek

Okay my point is still valid . Your gases won't be as high as a traditional airtight wood burner


----------



## 3fordasho

Ok, not going to install a barometric damper at this point anyway - I am going to permanently install a manometer to keep an eye on the draft.

I've had 2 or 3 instances where my flue temps are dropping too low (~200f or less) and no flame or secondary action in the box and it's not just down to coals.
This will occur if on a cold start or if I don't have a really good coal bed. I am letting the new load get well charred before I shut it down. Is this just the nature of a secondary reburn type firebox? The wood has been stacked and drying for 2-3 years. When this occurs there is a fresh coat of thin glossy creosote on my thermometer probe so I know this is not a good thing...


----------



## flotek

Stacked away for 3 years or not it Sounds Your wood may not be seasoned enough


----------



## brenndatomu

flotek said:


> Stacked away for 3 years or not it Sounds Your wood may not be seasoned enough


+1 on that ^^^


----------



## flotek

If your wood is not dry and well seasoned and you try burning it in a tundra/ heatmax your going to be disappointed . The design of the heat exchanger in the unit makes for a sticky crusty mess . You won't achieve good secondary combustion , you'll get poor heat output and short burns due to damper flap having to remain open to compensate . Burning sub par wood will negate any technology and benefit of the EPA design . If you are getting a coating of black tarry crud on the window then the only explanation is poorly seasoned fuel


----------



## 3fordasho

I've been running a woodstock fireview since 2007 and a progress hybrid since they first came out with the same wood (or seasoning routine) that I'm now running in the tundra. No performance issues in the woodstock stoves due to wood seasoning. That said I'll break out one my moisture meters and check some fresh surfaces on the splits. As far as build up on the window it's stayed pretty clean, there will be a light brown coating on the lower edges/ 25% of the glass after an overnight closed down air inlet burn that cleans up quickly on its own on a reload/char the wood session. It just seems that the stove requires a really hot firebox, extended wood charring session to get it to maintain secondary action with out loosing active secondarys and flue temps dropping too low after closing down the air inlet. One good thing, with the size of this house (3400ft2) there's not much need for low output burns / small load burns....




flotek said:


> If your wood is not dry and well seasoned and you try burning it in a tundra/ heatmax your going to be disappointed . The design of the heat exchanger in the unit makes for a sticky crusty mess . You won't achieve good secondary combustion , you'll get poor heat output and short burns due to damper flap having to remain open to compensate . Burning sub par wood will negate any technology and benefit of the EPA design . If you are getting a coating of black tarry crud on the window then the only explanation is poorly seasoned fuel


----------



## flotek

Did you get an adjustable snap disk or are you running the crappy factory one ?is the fan speed on medium . There's several factors to get the good results your looking for


----------



## laynes69

Just like some epa stoves, sometimes having the air completely shut down may not be enough. In the manual on our Caddy, there's provisions to adjust the air intake to match the type of fuel. Is the Tundra adjustible, if not then try a paper clip on the primary damper so it remains open a little. If I'm burning pine or softer woods, I can shut my furnace down 100%, otherwise a large load of dense wood requires a little extra air. When you factor in heating demand, wood type, chimney setup, etc. there's so many variables from one user to the next.


----------



## 3fordasho

flotek said:


> Did you get an adjustable snap disk or are you running the crappy factory one ?is the fan speed on medium . There's several factors to get the good results your looking for


 

All factory settings and parts so far, it's only been installed for about a week..


----------



## 3fordasho

I've been burning nothing but white oak, black and honey locust with a touch of ash and hackberry mixed in. I have experimented with holding the air damper slighty open and do get good results but I am not around the furnace enough to continously monitor temps in this situation (still in the process of moving into this new place). I suspect you are correct- dense hardwoods are going to require a touch more air. 




laynes69 said:


> Just like some epa stoves, sometimes having the air completely shut down may not be enough. In the manual on our Caddy, there's provisions to adjust the air intake to match the type of fuel. Is the Tundra adjustible, if not then try a paper clip on the primary damper so it remains open a little. If I'm burning pine or softer woods, I can shut my furnace down 100%, otherwise a large load of dense wood requires a little extra air. When you factor in heating demand, wood type, chimney setup, etc. there's so many variables from one user to the next.


----------



## brenndatomu

3fordasho said:


> It just seems that the stove requires a really hot firebox, extended wood charring session to get it to maintain secondary action with out loosing active secondarys and flue temps dropping too low after closing down the air inlet.


I think it has been discussed in this thread before, but I don't feel like digging through all of this so I'll just mention this and maybe someone that actually owns a Tundra/Heatmax and has done this can fill in the details. Someone here, maybe several someones, wired a bathroom fan timer switch to the damper so the damper could be held open irregardless of what the thermostat was calling for, allowing the firebox to build heat after reloading without having to be right there babysitting it or forgetting about the widget that you wedged in the damper. This also allows the high temp limit switch to operate if you had a load that really took off quickly on you.


----------



## newyorker

i have the caddy close to the same furnace i have a nest thermostat and i load it and program it to call for heat for 20 minutes then go back to normal


----------



## brenndatomu

newyorker said:


> i have the caddy close to the same furnace i have a nest thermostat and i load it and program it to call for heat for 20 minutes then go back to normal


Good idea. I guess you could do that with most any programmable thermostat, no? Of course that mean loading at the same time every day...on second thought, maybe this is not a good idea with just any 'stat. Hows that work exactly with the Nest?


----------



## flotek

That is slick . I've been eyeing up the Nest system and after Christmas may grab one


----------



## newyorker

the nest is slick you just turn the dial and select schedule and then the temp and how many minutes till u want it to go down to that temp i work 4-12 (working as we speak) im whipped when i get home i turn the nest to 72 set that stat for 68 in 20 minutes, go in basement damper is open load firebox up go to bed i leave work at 12 and box is loaded and im in bed at 12:09


----------



## newyorker

they had them on black friday for 199 at lowes but on fleabay you can pick them up for around 180 if you keep an eye on it


----------



## Grey Ghost

What is the part number on that adjustable snap disc? I was getting great burn times last year with my Heatmax but after the first month this year, it seems like the fire is raging for a LONG time before the blower kicks on. I'm using better seasoned wood than last year and this same wood did fine earlier this year. Now I'll often have to light a new fire in the morning because there aren't even coals to work with (and the house is chilly). Winter hasn't even really hit hard yet so I'm thinking something isn't working quite right. 

How has the unit performed with the new snap disc? What do you guys have it set for?


----------



## 82mkiiltype

Well I'm the nut with the bathroom fan timer. It still works awesome by the way...

You should never wedge something to hold the draft open. It's dangerous as you are overriding the furnaces ability to shut down in case it gets too hot. Unlike old school furnaces these new Secondary burn furnaces run much closer to the temperature limits of the materials they are built with and you can warp/crack and even melt things if it gets too hot. I know, I know you just wedge it open a little .... still not a great idea as you are also hurting it's efficiency.

These furnaces have two settings "Call for Heat" and "Charcoal". They are designed to be hooked to a thermostat that will "call for heat" 1 x 2 times an hour depending on heat loss of the building. If you are filling it with good dry solid hardwood, revving it up to get the secondarys going and switching it to "Charcoal" for the next 8 hours, you will get a huge pile of coals, and not much heat for the last 4 hours.

I normally burn dry almost punky ash and elm and I can get away with "charcoal" mode for 8 hours because the wood leaves no coals and is so eager to burn the firebox temp stays up anyway. It's like filling the firebox with nothing but kindling wood. When I've filled it with the odd hardwood maple/oak logs I end up with 6"-8" of coals and a colder house than when I burn lower quality wood. When I'm home on the weekends I'll go into the basement and set my timer for 30 min every 2 hours of so. Makes way more heat, burns up the coals, and keeps the furnace burning the way it was designed to. Super hot and clean, or holding coals for the next call for heat. Running it in between those two temperatures risks the secondarys working properly.

A thermostat really should be installed with these units. I've finally got a duct work plan in the works ... and a thermostat will go in at the same time.

But I'm still keeping my bathroom timer!


----------



## flotek

I like the bathroom timer idea ! When I get up it's super early like 3:45 in the morning I'm dead to the world so I don't rush downstairs and fill the firebox instead I walk over to the thermostat and crank the setting up to 75 or so and then I go get dressed make coffee take out the dog etc. this gives the furnace a good 20 minutes of incoming fresh air to burn off the heavy coal bed down and really heats up the firebox to prepare the new charge of fuel I load in . I toss wood in it and close the door and it takes right off over those glowing red hot embers . Then before I walk out the door I set the to stat for 70 or 71 and leave ...Works good for me


----------



## djkost

I run mind on a thermostat and it works well. When it calls for heat the stat opens up the air intake and the fire blazes. The problem I have is if the room doesn't need heat the wood just smolgers. I think I will drill and tap a hole in the air intake door so I can adjust it a bit to keep it open. Could someone list the part number for the snap disk that is better then the one that comes with the furnace.


----------



## flotek

You just use a universal adjustable one you can get at any hvac store or on eBay for less than 20 bucks and set it for 105-110 .


----------



## Grey Ghost

Thanks Flotek. If that's set that low, it doesn't cool the heat exchanger too quickly huh? Do the stock ones have problems or are they just set too high? Just curious. I'm just wondering if that's my problem because it just started not heating as well (or long) out of the blue. Very happy with the furnace till it started chewing through the wood all the sudden.


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## djkost

What snap disk does the caddy have in it.


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## newyorker

Doesn't have one it has a fan limit switch


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## centennial60

I don't have any experience with snap disks but I'm thinking a limit switch is a better way to control the blower fan since the "on" and "off" can be adjusted independently of one another. Even the adjustable snap disks still have a set differential right? Snap disks are cheap compared to limit switches so I'm guessing that is the reason the tunderas have them..not because they are better.


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## flotek

The factory is set too high . It has to be blazing hot for it to tell the fan to come on and then the stupid thing kicks off too soon .very annoying . P IdeallyEach persons will be slightly different I set mine so the fan kicks on at around 107 degrees ( takes about 10 minutes with a warm unit) and it will generally stay on till the load is a coal bed about 10 h
Or so hrs later ( depending on conditions. ) I like the idea of it staying on longer it makes the tundra far better and increases circulation and comfort for us . When I first got mine it barely heated the house because of the ridiculous factory fan switch . Night and day improvement. As long as your wood is well seasoned and dry you shouldn't have an issue in my experience


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## newyorker

My fan limit switch is 150-on 110 off


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## djkost

What switch do you have that is adjustable for the tundra.


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## brenndatomu

djkost said:


> What switch do you have that is adjustable for the tundra.





flotek said:


> You just use a universal adjustable one you can get at any hvac store or on eBay for less than 20 bucks and set it for 105-110 .


http://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/image-jpg.385234/


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## 3fordasho

They must have changed them out on newer units, the switch on my recently installed tundra turns the fan on rather quickly ( in fact with in 15minutes or less on a cold start)
and keeps it on most of the burn. The fan will stay on continously if the damper is open, it will cycle some with it closed. Seems like a good match to me.




flotek said:


> The factory is set too high . It has to be blazing hot for it to tell the fan to come on and then the stupid thing kicks off too soon .very annoying . P IdeallyEach persons will be slightly different I set mine so the fan kicks on at around 107 degrees ( takes about 10 minutes with a warm unit) and it will generally stay on till the load is a coal bed about 10 h
> Or so hrs later ( depending on conditions. ) I like the idea of it staying on longer it makes the tundra far better and increases circulation and comfort for us . When I first got mine it barely heated the house because of the ridiculous factory fan switch . Night and day improvement. As long as your wood is well seasoned and dry you shouldn't have an issue in my experience


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## djkost

You have a part number and manufacturer, pic is nice but need informationinformation


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## brenndatomu

djkost said:


> You have a part number and manufacturer, pic is nice but need informationinformation


Google "adjustable snap switch" there are tons that come up, get a "close on rise" in the right temp range...


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## Grey Ghost

I just changed mine out for an adjustable one. But, when I pulled the stock one, it was labeled 120-10F. So, I'm assuming that they've started to put lower temp snap discs in from the factory? I thought someone said the stock ones were 140 or something higher. 

I set my new one for 110 degrees to see where that'll get me. I can't tell much of a difference in those 10 degrees but the blower runs longer (which seems to me a good thing). I'm getting more heat per load of wood.


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## 3fordasho

Tundra manual calls out a F110-20F ceramic thermodisc. I assume that means close at 110F and open at 90F - from a Tundra I just received in the last month.
It's seems to be about right for my install - perhaps earlier ones got different temp settings.




Grey Ghost said:


> I just changed mine out for an adjustable one. But, when I pulled the stock one, it was labeled 120-10F. So, I'm assuming that they've started to put lower temp snap discs in from the factory? I thought someone said the stock ones were 140 or something higher.
> 
> I set my new one for 110 degrees to see where that'll get me. I can't tell much of a difference in those 10 degrees but the blower runs longer (which seems to me a good thing). I'm getting more heat per load of wood.


----------



## newyorker

Where is the snap disk located


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## Grey Ghost

It's behind the square control housing on the top of the back of the unit. Takes two philip's head screws to remove and replace. Very easy to do.


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## newyorker

I'm just curious I have a caddy and it has a fan limit switch and factory was 160 on 110 off


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## djkost

Check my snap disk, it said 120_10 so I guess mind is 120 f closed and 110 open. Seem the difference is to little. Will look for one that is 120 to 100 or 90. Should just call the co and have them order one for me.


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## djkost

Just got my adjustable snap disk. I think since it had à 20 degree swing Im going go set it at 120 on. It should shut off at100.


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## Flamingfire

Hi New to the site but I just ordered a tundra from menards and without knowing this forum existed I believe I made a great choice should be here in a week or so. Replacing an old Best furnace which eats wood like it was kindling. I was laid up for a couple of days and my wife had to feed the beast and then we went and bought one knowing it will save on wood right away. I want to thank all on here for the great info I have found and I am sure I will have more questions soon. Can I combine both 8" outputs to 1 8" ? I just pipe in from my garage into the studio through and 8" pipe. Complete building is 40x60 studio is 26x40 well insulated.


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## flotek

Sounds like sbi smartened up after reading arborist site and started putting the lower limit snap discs in these recently . People should try out the factory one before buying a replacement adjustable one . 120 on disc is not bad and far better than the other one they used to use


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## brenndatomu

Flamingfire said:


> Can I combine both 8" outputs to 1 8" ?


Sounds like inviting trouble to me...the firebox has to be able to dissipate heat, cutting the air flow to half would surely allow things to go "nuclear" sooner or later


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## Flamingfire

Thanks


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## Flamingfire

I also have a drolet austral in a trailer with outside air but I only have about 10' of chimney do I need more for the right amount of draft?


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## brenndatomu

Probably. 15' chimney is considered minimum for most modern stoves


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## byron2

Hi everyone new poster here......I have a Heatmax dfo1000 wood furnace...From what I've read in this thread its the same as the Tundra I picked it up Sept of 2014. I see you were talking about the thermodisc that runs the blower... Like some here have said it takes quite awhile to get the blower to kick in and then it doesn't stay on for long at all....The one I have is a F120-10F....Anyway I went to the droplet site and looked at the latest online manual and its different than mine its shows the thermodisc as F110-20F.... My thinking is this would be much better...my question is this It looks as if they have changed the location from the back in the control box to the top of the stove near the high limit thermodisc ...Wondering if anyone knows....I want to do something maybe I should just get an adjustable one .... thoughts would be much appreciated ...... I'm also having trouble with coaling which is my only gripe about this furnace fiddling with it to much to get the coals burned down


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## spadjen

Having problems with excessive coals and no heat at the end of the cycle. The coal bed in the pic is a lot smaller then usual, more then likely due to some changes that I have made. I find the wood turns to coals rather fast? about 3 hours in to the cycle it turns to all coals if half loaded. This happens even with the damper completely shut. I had an EPA drolet ht-2000, and never had any issues. I have made some adjustments to my heatmax to bring things into spec. 

Stove located in a basement
1500 sq foot 1.5 story house , with air infiltration problems.
I have 9 heat registers that are 3"x8"
Cold air return that is supplied by two 8" rounds, with filter. 
16' of duravent all outside. 
approximately 6' of black stove pipe with very little pitch (see pics)
one 90 degree T on the outside and two 45's on the inside.
Using a wall thermostat.
10 month seasoned wood that is 16-22%
A wireless digital prob thermometer. 

I have covered all my heat resisters with foil, leaving only 1-2" for an opening. I have installed a damper in one of my lines. This increased my static pressure for my duct work from .08 to .24. note that when I remove the cover to my cold air intake to reduce restriction I can get .4 more pressure in my duct work. I have changed my fan speed to medium low. I replaced the fan snap disk with an adjustable one. I since adjusted it to 120 degrees to simulate factory settings until I can figure out what the issues are. The only difference with the adjustable is the 20 degree swing vs 10. I have removed my chimney cap, and measured my draft at .04 with damper closed by firebox hot, and .05-.06 with damper open. Outside temperatures have been -5 to 15 degrees at night and 5-20 during the day.

I am thinking that my stove pipe in the house is a little too long and the pitch is not helping. This is especially true with the minimum 16' chimney height. However, The draft readings are in spec. The excessive coals I would assume to be not enough air into the firebox or the firebox cooling down too much? I have fixed that static pressure, the fan speed, and snapdisk to keep the firebox hot. Internal stove pipe temperatures are 550 degrees with it fully running and 325-400 with the damper closed. I was told yesterday that internal should not drop below 500 with the damper closed and should run 500-800/900 during normal operation. I have 2 more 36" sections of chimney I can add to make 22', but from the pics you can see that would not be easy. There would be about 10' chimney above the eave. Changing the location of the stove inside would be hard to do since it involves the water heater, cold air return, and plenum. 

Any recommendations on what might be going on or what to try?


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## brenndatomu

How long have you have this unit? Has it worked good for you up 'til now?
Hard to tell for sure from a pic but from the looks of those unburnt black chunks, your wood is not as dry as you think. If you are checking with a meter, what was the procedure? Even done properly, moisture meters aren't always 100% accurate
I'd say your stove pipe/chimney are fine.
Have you verified "zero" on your manometer lately?


----------



## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> How long have you have this unit? Has it worked good for you up 'til now?
> Hard to tell for sure from a pic but from the looks of those unburnt black chunks, your wood is not as dry as you think. If you are checking with a meter, what was the procedure? Even done properly, moisture meters aren't always 100% accurate
> I'd say your stove pipe/chimney are fine.
> Have you verified "zero" on your manometer lately?



Have had this one for 2 months. Had same furnace last year too. Had similar problems but not as bad. Maybe it is worse when it is colder outside? The unburned chunks is from an attempt to burn down the coals. Usually it is just a thick blank of glowing red hot coals. When checking the wood i checked the ends and middle. Did not bother measuring the pieces on the outside of the wood pile. I got a range of readings but the majority was in the range I quoted. How do you verify zero? I do reset the unit and zero it out with every reading.


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## laynes69

Having had this firebox for 5 years or so now, your main problem is draft. Things will run well when there's fuel in the furnace and flue temps are up. It's when the furnace reaches the coaling stage or before, flue temps can drop below 150 degrees. At this point with a 16' chimney with 2-90° elbows, you can't produce enough draft to burn down the coals, leaving you with what you have now. Those elbows with that length of chimney reduces draft to basically nothing. Since you have a manometer, when you hit that stage test it. If draft falls below .04" anywhere in the burn, you don't have enough draft. The wood may be okay, but 22% is on the higher side for the furnace. It will burn and produce heat, just not as well as it should. With the length of your single wall, that area alone loses alot of heat. Adding a section or two of chimney or double wall flue pipe should bring your draft levels up, therefore performance will increase.


----------



## brenndatomu

spadjen said:


> Have had this one for 2 months. Had same furnace last year too.


You move?



spadjen said:


> Maybe it is worse when it is colder outside?


Sounds like it. Some people with EPA type stoves are complaining of the same thing



spadjen said:


> When checking the wood i checked the ends and middle.


You should be checking the inside right after making a fresh split. The middle is usually a bit wetter than the ends



spadjen said:


> How do you verify zero?


Just uplug from the flue, make sure it drops to zero


----------



## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> Having had this firebox for 5 years or so now, your main problem is draft. Things will run well when there's fuel in the furnace and flue temps are up. It's when the furnace reaches the coaling stage or before, flue temps can drop below 150 degrees. At this point with a 16' chimney with 2-90° elbows, you can't produce enough draft to burn down the coals, leaving you with what you have now. Those elbows with that length of chimney reduces draft to basically nothing. Since you have a manometer, when you hit that stage test it. If draft falls below .04" anywhere in the burn, you don't have enough draft. The wood may be okay, but 22% is on the higher side for the furnace. It will burn and produce heat, just not as well as it should. With the length of your single wall, that area alone loses alot of heat. Adding a section or two of chimney or double wall flue pipe should bring your draft levels up, therefore performance will increase.



Measured it last night when the firebox was shut down for awhile. It measured .03 but does go to .04 when you open it up for maybe 15 mins. good point on the double wall. I completely overlooked that option for some reason. I do have 6 more feet of chimney but not sure how to reach since it is 6' past the eave now.


----------



## spadjen

brenndatomu said:


> You move?
> 
> 
> Sounds like it. Some people with EPA type stoves are complaining of the same thing
> 
> 
> You should be checking the inside right after making a fresh split. The middle is usually a bit wetter than the ends
> 
> 
> Just uplug from the flue, make sure it drops to zero



I dont have anything to split the wood with since I am not allowed around sharp objects. I cause too much self injury...lol. The manometer I have does not permanently attach so it is not attached to the flue. I just drill a hole and put the rubber tube in. But when I retest I do reset the meter to zero by the internal self calibration. I would assume that I am getting good readings from it. 

I did not move. Had an issue with my old one and it has been replaced with the one I have now. I had one of the first production units.


----------



## laynes69

I take it, your not getting enough heat from the coalbed? If so ideally you will load in cycles, once the coalbed has burnt down, reload, repeat. Our home is 2500 sqft, 2 story with 10' ceilings plus basement which is 1200 sqft. Last night it dropped to -5° (chills around -20) we loaded at 9:30pm it was 73, at 4:30am it was 70 with a nice hot coalbed.

Your draft is low, but not as bad as what I would have thought. I would go double wall pipe with that length of run to the chimney. That should make a big difference with draft. With your wood, get ahead. We burn 18+ month wood and it makes a big difference.

Air infiltration problems in a home will compound the problem. This weather will find the weakness in any home. On the otherhand, this weather makes it easy to find those drafts. Buy a case of caulking and a few cans of expanding foam. Start in your attic, and plug every gap you find in the attic floor. Look at top plates, electrical wires, junction boxes, plumbing, interior partition walls and anything else you can find. Seal those gaps, then move to the basement. Look around your foundation, sill plates, etc. Then move into the living space and seal any gaps at the floors, around windows and doors, etc. It's a dirty job, takes some time, but doesn't cost much. You do this, and you'll feel like you have a new wood furnace. When I bought our furnace, I couldn't keep the house at 68 when it was 25°, now it's below zero and the house is 72. We also have 42 windows. Even before we added attic insulation, when we air sealed our attic our heating demand dropped probably 20-30%. In our case, I found 32 open cavities in our attic that had fiberglass stuffed in them and covered in cellulose. We had the equivalent of a 6' diameter hole in our attic, shocking.


----------



## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> I take it, your not getting enough heat from the coalbed? If so ideally you will load in cycles, once the coalbed has burnt down, reload, repeat. Our home is 2500 sqft, 2 story with 10' ceilings plus basement which is 1200 sqft. Last night it dropped to -5° (chills around -20) we loaded at 9:30pm it was 73, at 4:30am it was 70 with a nice hot coalbed.
> 
> Your draft is low, but not as bad as what I would have thought. I would go double wall pipe with that length of run to the chimney. That should make a big difference with draft. With your wood, get ahead. We burn 18+ month wood and it makes a big difference.
> 
> Air infiltration problems in a home will compound the problem. This weather will find the weakness in any home. On the otherhand, this weather makes it easy to find those drafts. Buy a case of caulking and a few cans of expanding foam. Start in your attic, and plug every gap you find in the attic floor. Look at top plates, electrical wires, junction boxes, plumbing, interior partition walls and anything else you can find. Seal those gaps, then move to the basement. Look around your foundation, sill plates, etc. Then move into the living space and seal any gaps at the floors, around windows and doors, etc. It's a dirty job, takes some time, but doesn't cost much. You do this, and you'll feel like you have a new wood furnace. When I bought our furnace, I couldn't keep the house at 68 when it was 25°, now it's below zero and the house is 72. We also have 42 windows. Even before we added attic insulation, when we air sealed our attic our heating demand dropped probably 20-30%. In our case, I found 32 open cavities in our attic that had fiberglass stuffed in them and covered in cellulose. We had the equivalent of a 6' diameter hole in our attic, shocking.



The problem I found was that the coal bead is very thick even when I start with an empty stove. At that point the house is dropping temperature and the furnace fan will not kick in. However, now that I increased the static pressure it seems the fan is turning on more when there is a coal bed. I am wondering if I am filling the firebox too much? Even with the air infiltration problems, at 1500 sq feet, the house is on the smaller side for the furnace. 

So I should add double wall instead of chimney length? It would be a much easier install, but I dont have double wall and would need to order it. 

The air infiltration problems I have are a little more involved. I do have have the normal foaming and calking of gaps. I need to replace both exterior doors, which wont happen this year. They need to be custom made due to the rough opening size. At the top of the walls and between the beams (post and beam house) there is insulation that when you pull it back, goes right out side. I am in the process of sheet rocking this area to make it air tight. This should help a lot.


----------



## laynes69

If you want heat before loading, pull the coals forward and open the damper. You can also place a softer wood split across the top and the coals will burn down while producing alot of heat. If it's extremely cold, we will do that once or twice then level the coalbed and load. If we let the load go and don't touch it, at the end of the burn we have ash up front and coals in the back. Before spending money on double wall pipe, try 1 section on your chimney if you can, since you have it. Extra draft during the coaling stage will keep those coals remain hot and burn them down. Instead of smaller loads, have you tried full loads?


----------



## spadjen

I do pull the coals forward. Not enough heat even with a 10" bed of coal. When trying to burn down with a piece of wood across the top, I get heat but the wood turns to coals fast and just adds to the coal bed. Or at least I dont see it getting much smaller after a few times. This is what lead me to the drafting issue?

Normally on an overnight burn I must so much wood in that its filled to the tubes. I am wondering if that would be too full for this size house? Damper keeps closing too often for the wood load to burn? This would cause a bad draft on a system that had low draft. I am assuming anyway.


I was thinking of finding a craigslist specialist to get up on the roof and put the 2 pieces of chimney together. LOL. I dont have a roof support bracket. Not sure I can get by with one until the end of the season? Would be about 12' unsupported. Depending on shipping speed, I can wait to have everything installed together.


----------



## laynes69

Was your draft reading at .03" taken when the furnace was at the coaling stage, or taken when the damper was closed and secondaries firing? As far as loading, I wouldn't load full loads if not needed.


----------



## Cpeder

I'm having the same problem burning red oak. The maple did not do leave more then a 2" coal bed. Right now I'm about 6-8" of bright red hot coals. I set the thermostat up to open the damper. This burns it down but if I don't do this early enough there won't be enough room for a new load before bed. Of corse adding wood every 3 hours will only compound the problem. I don't get much heat in the early morning hours from the coal bed. My thought is to change the thermodisc. My Manuel say its 140 on 120 off. Having an adjustable set at 130 on and 100 off should allow fans to cycle longer and when just coals turn on sooner. Any heat that can be used is good heat in my book.


----------



## flotek

This can happen when weather gets really cold . You have a few things that cause this :

Your adding wood too frequently on top of the coals before the cycle is complete

Your not running the air flap long enough to burn off the coals you do have

Your packing dense wood that is known to really coal up

There's tons of heat in that bed of coals ..you just need to get air to it to burn them off . I open up the air control by means of cranking up t stat and then crack the firebox door and it will glow a couple thin slabs on that bed helps get things rocking too ..throwing great heat for hours on end . Of coarse not everyone is going to be comfortable un securing the door for safety reasons


----------



## Grey Ghost

I've had that problem too but I was burning big hunks of wood with the old idea of big "over nighters". I switched to smaller splits and I get a nice coal bed that heats for quite awhile and when the cycle is complete, there's some coals in the back, ashes in the front. I scoop out some ashes, level out the coals and throw some more wood in. 

Smaller splits worked well for me. Also, if you aren't using dry wood, it's gonna create a thick coal bed that doesn't really put out heat. I've got a friend that has logs stacked for years but he doesn't cut, split and stack until right before winter. Then he throws it directly in his basement. He can't figure out why his furnace doesn't heat well. His moisture readings are always way high although the logs have been stacked for years. 

I cut, split and stack outside under an open wood shed for at least a year. Works well and doesn't coal up like that. Using smaller splits will help if you have slightly moust wood too. Not saying that is the problem but it could be. Just sharing my experience with this stove.


----------



## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> Was your draft reading at .03" taken when the furnace was at the coaling stage, or taken when the damper was closed and secondaries firing? As far as loading, I wouldn't load full loads if not needed.



that was with warm coals and the damper shut. 



Cpeder said:


> I'm having the same problem burning red oak. The maple did not do leave more then a 2" coal bed. Right now I'm about 6-8" of bright red hot coals. I set the thermostat up to open the damper. This burns it down but if I don't do this early enough there won't be enough room for a new load before bed. Of corse adding wood every 3 hours will only compound the problem. I don't get much heat in the early morning hours from the coal bed. My thought is to change the thermodisc. My Manuel say its 140 on 120 off. Having an adjustable set at 130 on and 100 off should allow fans to cycle longer and when just coals turn on sooner. Any heat that can be used is good heat in my book.



I did change the snap disk to adjustable. I now have it set at 115 and get much more heat from the furnace when it is shut down. Not sure what type of wood I have other then its hard wood. No ash, very little birch.


flotek said:


> This can happen when weather gets really cold . You have a few things that cause this :
> 
> Your adding wood too frequently on top of the coals before the cycle is complete
> 
> Your not running the air flap long enough to burn off the coals you do have
> 
> Your packing dense wood that is known to really coal up
> 
> There's tons of heat in that bed of coals ..you just need to get air to it to burn them off . I open up the air control by means of cranking up t stat and then crack the firebox door and it will glow a couple thin slabs on that bed helps get things rocking too ..throwing great heat for hours on end . Of coarse not everyone is going to be comfortable un securing the door for safety reasons




Still happens when a new load is put in an empty stove. Did this to eliminate the possibility of a frequent load cycle. I have had to do that before for an extended burn when no one will be home, but the cycle has not compleated. Not the case here though.

The coal bed still wont burn down with the flap open. Well it prob will, but after 2 hours it was still almost the same size. 

Not sure what type of wood I have, so this could be a possibility.

Have tried burning down the coals like that. Still has not worked out for the most part. I do get a lot more combustion with the door partly open. I wonder if this is also a sign of poor draft? I have not tried leaving the door cracked with a large coal bed and wonder if I should try that. If it was to work, then I would assume that meant that there was not enough air into the fire box. 


Grey Ghost said:


> I've had that problem too but I was burning big hunks of wood with the old idea of big "over nighters". I switched to smaller splits and I get a nice coal bed that heats for quite awhile and when the cycle is complete, there's some coals in the back, ashes in the front. I scoop out some ashes, level out the coals and throw some more wood in.
> 
> Smaller splits worked well for me. Also, if you aren't using dry wood, it's gonna create a thick coal bed that doesn't really put out heat. I've got a friend that has logs stacked for years but he doesn't cut, split and stack until right before winter. Then he throws it directly in his basement. He can't figure out why his furnace doesn't heat well. His moisture readings are always way high although the logs have been stacked for years.
> 
> I cut, split and stack outside under an open wood shed for at least a year. Works well and doesn't coal up like that. Using smaller splits will help if you have slightly moust wood too. Not saying that is the problem but it could be. Just sharing my experience with this stove.




I had the same problem with big split. I went with the same thought as you, the bigger the better for longer burns. I since switch to smaller splits and have had better results. Smaller also drys faster. Wood has been seasoning for 10 months under a roof and open on the sides. according to the meter, it is in spec. I might try ordering ash for next year since it drys faster.


----------



## Grey Ghost

All I burn is ash right now. There's thousands of them dead and standing (or down) in Michigan. Ash coals don't seem near as good at heating as oak or other dense woods. 

I've just had to re-learn burning techniques for these secondary burn furnaces. Some things are similar but many things are not.


----------



## flotek

Spadjen if cracking the door and running the flap wide open doesn't burn off the coal bed then I'd suggest there's not a strong enough draft in your setup


----------



## Cpeder

Flotek. What fan switch are you using.? Do you have a part number? It's different then a snap disk correct?


----------



## Wisneaky

Hello all. I just wanted to post a quick update about my furnace. This is my second season with it. Just started having some issues with performance. I have been getting about 12-15 hours burn time and it dropped to about 5 hours. I started inspecting everything. I noticed the vermiculite baffle is cracked right it half. I'm not sure what would cause this. But SBI is sending me a new one. I also noticed the handle on the door loosened up and there was a small gap around the door which probably is also affecting the burn time. This was an easy fix by just backing the screw out and setting the handle to the correct place and retightening the screw. I will report back on the performance once I get the new baffle. How is everyone else doing with their Tundra / Heatmax?


----------



## Cpeder

Well heck not as good as you. I've never had close to 12-15 hour burns. Even if my damper is shut all day long and I stuff the stove with maple and red oak medium sized spits the most I'll see is 8.hours. Today I got home 10hours after loading full and had a fine ash with a small hand full of coals that were buried in the ash. A small split and piece of paper I'm up and running. Don't get me wrong leaps and bounds better then my HB but 12-15 hours? I'd be tickled pink if I could do this. Even with the small amount of coals my draft was at .04


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> Hello all. I just wanted to post a quick update about my furnace. This is my second season with it. Just started having some issues with performance. I have been getting about 12-15 hours burn time and it dropped to about 5 hours. I started inspecting everything. I noticed the vermiculite baffle is cracked right it half. I'm not sure what would cause this. But SBI is sending me a new one. I also noticed the handle on the door loosened up and there was a small gap around the door which probably is also affecting the burn time. This was an easy fix by just backing the screw out and setting the handle to the correct place and retightening the screw. I will report back on the performance once I get the new baffle. How is everyone else doing with their Tundra / Heatmax?


I had problems with mine the 2nd season and needed to be replaced. I noticed surface rust inside the firebox at the start of the season. I think that this would have an effect on the temperature sensors in the unit due to the moisture. I will be disconnecting the stove pipe at the end of the season from now on. I might leave the door part open as well to provide air flow. Make sure your damper is not sticking. There was an issue with the push road binding up and needed a small adjustment. If it is open, disconnect the power and see if the damper closes normal.

My baffle cracked too. Make sure you dont hit it when loading wood. Not sure if that was the problem or the heat. If it keeps happening I am going to have a piece of stainless fabricated with a ceramic blanket to replace it. This is what the caddy has if I am not mistaken.


----------



## spadjen

Cpeder said:


> Flotek. What fan switch are you using.? Do you have a part number? It's different then a snap disk correct?



You asking me, flotek, or everyone? Not sure if you meant the fan snap disk. I replaced mine with an adjustable. I can try to find the part number if you need it. 




flotek said:


> Spadjen if cracking the door and running the flap wide open doesn't burn off the coal bed then I'd suggest there's not a strong enough draft in your setup



Coals have been less of an issue the last few days. It has been warmer out so not sure if that is helping. I did notice the draft dip to .03 a few times over the last few days. I have someone coming to install 6' more feet of chimney in the next few days. I will take more readings then.


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> Well heck not as good as you. I've never had close to 12-15 hour burns. Even if my damper is shut all day long and I stuff the stove with maple and red oak medium sized spits the most I'll see is 8.hours. Today I got home 10hours after loading full and had a fine ash with a small hand full of coals that were buried in the ash. A small split and piece of paper I'm up and running. Don't get me wrong leaps and bounds better then my HB but 12-15 hours? I'd be tickled pink if I could do this. Even with the small amount of coals my draft was at .04


I started getting the good burn time after I found some white oak that was 2 seasons old. It's really nice and dry. When I was burning ash before I would only get 8 hours.


----------



## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> I had problems with mine the 2nd season and needed to be replaced. I noticed surface rust inside the firebox at the start of the season. I think that this would have an effect on the temperature sensors in the unit due to the moisture. I will be disconnecting the stove pipe at the end of the season from now on. I might leave the door part open as well to provide air flow. Make sure your damper is not sticking. There was an issue with the push road binding up and needed a small adjustment. If it is open, disconnect the power and see if the damper closes normal.
> 
> My baffle cracked too. Make sure you dont hit it when loading wood. Not sure if that was the problem or the heat. If it keeps happening I am going to have a piece of stainless fabricated with a ceramic blanket to replace it. This is what the caddy has if I am not mistaken.


I asked the SBI tech if I could just use a steel plate as a baffle and he advised against it, but didn't say why. If it cracks again I'm definitely changing it out to steel.


----------



## laynes69

The Caddy now has a baffle made of C-Cast. The original baffles were stainless with a blanket and weight, but still would warp due to heat.


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> I started getting the good burn time after I found some white oak that was 2 seasons old. It's really nice and dry. When I was burning ash before I would only get 8 hours.



How old was the ash? 



Wisneaky said:


> I asked the SBI tech if I could just use a steel plate as a baffle and he advised against it, but didn't say why. If it cracks again I'm definitely changing it out to steel.



Did he say why? It may be that they just don't recommend modifying it at all. But they are the same manufacture as the caddy. So if the caddy has it and the tundra does not, then it was just a cost savings thing.


----------



## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> The Caddy now has a baffle made of C-Cast. The original baffles were stainless with a blanket and weight, but still would warp due to heat.



I did not know that. What is c-cast. Same as whats in the tundra? I may still check a fabrication shop and give them the information you just gave. They would know if there is anything out there that may not warp. If you go thick enough it should not be a problem. But try installing a 4" thick piece of stainless.  LOL


----------



## laynes69

C-cast is a lightweight baffle, I guess it's stuff used on space shuttles, rated at 3500 degrees. The Tundra uses the same baffles most other stoves use, which are fragile. I assume it's a cost cutter. They are made of vermicumite. As long as you don't hit a vermiculite baffle with the poker, ash rake or wood it should be fine. The baffles won't warp and they hold heat to the fire below.


----------



## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> C-cast is a lightweight baffle, I guess it's stuff used on space shuttles, rated at 3500 degrees. The Tundra uses the same baffles most other stoves use, which are fragile. I assume it's a cost cutter. They are made of vermicumite. As long as you don't hit a vermiculite baffle with the poker, ash rake or wood it should be fine. The baffles won't warp and they hold heat to the fire below.


vermicumite......that's what I was thinking of. I will have to look into c-cast. Changing the baffle is a pain. Which do you have? how is it holding up?


----------



## Wisneaky

I honestly don't know why the baffle broke. I know I don't hit it with the poker. But possible a log hit it because I do fill an inch below the burn tubes. The tech didn't say why not to use steel, but I'd think a 1" steel plate wouldn't warp very easy. I also just noticed my burn tubes are warped a little.


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## Cpeder

Anyone will do. Right now I'm in the middle of trying to find a rotary switch to wire to my blower fan. It's a 4 speed but you have to move the wire to what speed u need. The factory setting its nice on warmer days but on cold days and nights fan speed 3 is better.


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> Anyone will do. Right now I'm in the middle of trying to find a rotary switch to wire to my blower fan. It's a 4 speed but you have to move the wire to what speed u need. The factory setting its nice on warmer days but on cold days and nights fan speed 3 is better.


here is a switch http://amzn.com/B00H8S4YA4


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## flotek

Just about Any adjustable snap switch will do . They are probably all made in the same Chinese factory anyways


----------



## Cpeder

When it comes to fan switch I found many thanks. I also found wifi fan speed controls and other wifi modules that can control up to 30amps. I am amazed at all the technology out there and pretty darn cheap. This all appeals to my gadget interests/invention side. Amazing what's out there


----------



## stihly dan

Lowering the fan temp will help get heat out of the coals. 95* 100* that range. Chimney definitely is too short. Do you have ten ft horizontal from the top of chimney to anything else?


----------



## Cpeder

No nothing within range of chimney that close. Does it matter if the snap disc is open or rise or close on rise? I found 1 or grainger 90 to 130 but closes on rise.


----------



## brenndatomu

spadjen said:


> What is c-cast


I think it is rigid ceramic insulation board, could be wrong. I bought a 2'x3' sheet of the stuff for my furnace from a place on fleabay called skylinecomponents. Still not bulletproof like steel, but it will take high temps _all day long_ with no effect to it. It's made for kilns and stuff, factory baffle in some stoves too. Search ceramic fiber board...


stihly dan said:


> Do you have ten ft horizontal from the top of chimney to anything else?


Isn't that 2' taller than anything within 10' horizontally?


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## brenndatomu

Cpeder said:


> No nothing within range of chimney that close. Does it matter if the snap disc is open or rise or close on rise? I found 1 or grainger 90 to 130 but closes on rise.


Has to be close on rise


----------



## laynes69

I had the stainless baffle originally, but upgraded to the c-cast. I've ran the poker and wood into my baffle and left gouges in it, but nothing else. I think it's around an inch thick, maybe a hair thicker. It's hard to describe, almost sounds hollow, its soft but dense. There's some weight to it. I pull my tubes about 2 or 3 times per season, whenever it gets warmer and I clean the ash from the top of the firebox.


----------



## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> I had the stainless baffle originally, but upgraded to the c-cast. I've ran the poker and wood into my baffle and left gouges in it, but nothing else. I think it's around an inch thick, maybe a hair thicker. It's hard to describe, almost sounds hollow, its soft but dense. There's some weight to it. I pull my tubes about 2 or 3 times per season, whenever it gets warmer and I clean the ash from the top of the firebox.


That description of your baffle sound exactly like the ceramic fiber board that I bought. Pretty easy to buy the material, fab your own baffle. Cuts with a serrated knife, holds up well, I've had mine a couple years now. Like you said, couple scars from hitting it but that's about it. Usually a sheet costs much less than buying (1) factory baffle, and a 2' x 3' sheet probably enough to make two baffles.


----------



## newyorker

Has anyone added a four speed switch?


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## Cpeder

Well I'm adding a 5 speed switch off with 4 settings. A 5amp rotary switch. Should have it today. The only reasons I want it is for warmer days I'd rather use the factor low medium setting to keep the exchangers warmer. This should keep any condensation in check. But when it dips below 25 at night the next setting up gets the heat out of the vents with the added static pressure. The switch beats pulling of the plenum cover and moving wires around.


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> Well I'm adding a 5 speed switch off with 4 settings. A 5amp rotary switch. Should have it today. The only reasons I want it is for warmer days I'd rather use the factor low medium setting to keep the exchangers warmer. This should keep any condensation in check. But when it dips below 25 at night the next setting up gets the heat out of the vents with the added static pressure. The switch beats pulling of the plenum cover and moving wires around.


I'd like to do a switch also. Right now I open it up and change it all the time too.


----------



## Cpeder

I'll put some pictures up once I get it done. Probably tomorrow. I just went all out on a nest and a video camera. Going to set it up in view of the stove then use the nest to open and close the damper as needed. Could even make the fan wifi to if it was really worth it. I like my gadgets but also gives me piece of mind being able to check to make sure the wife set the stove right while I'm at work or in the goose blind. Btw I finally Achieved a 10 hour plus cycle. Just over 10 hours now and still plenty of heat of a big bed of coals. Thanks to all the help from everyone on this site of course.


----------



## newyorker

Cpeder said:


> Well I'm adding a 5 speed switch off with 4 settings. A 5amp rotary switch. Should have it today. The only reasons I want it is for warmer days I'd rather use the factor low medium setting to keep the exchangers warmer. This should keep any condensation in check. But when it dips below 25 at night the next setting up gets the heat out of the vents with the added static pressure. The switch beats pulling of the plenum cover and moving wires around.


Do you have a link?


----------



## Cpeder

Not sure how to copy the link with iPad. Go to grainger.com and search rotary switch,sp3t,5connections


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> I'll put some pictures up once I get it done. Probably tomorrow. I just went all out on a nest and a video camera. Going to set it up in view of the stove then use the nest to open and close the damper as needed. Could even make the fan wifi to if it was really worth it. I like my gadgets but also gives me piece of mind being able to check to make sure the wife set the stove right while I'm at work or in the goose blind. Btw I finally Achieved a 10 hour plus cycle. Just over 10 hours now and still plenty of heat of a big bed of coals. Thanks to all the help from everyone on this site of course.


I also have a video camera set up to watch mine. I check it on my phone when I wake up in the middle of the night to see how full it is. Much better than getting up and walking down stairs to check it.


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> Not sure how to copy the link with iPad. Go to grainger.com and search rotary switch,sp3t,5connections


grainger is a good place to buy from. They have a place about 80 miles from me so when I order from them I usually receive it the next day.


----------



## brenndatomu

newyorker said:


> Do you have a link?


here ya go
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjGNfrVUcJYAUQsPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1421209357/RO=10/RU=http://www.grainger.com/product/POWER-FIRST-Rotary-Switch-2VLR8/RK=0/RS=ChiehqoSnyNqpi6vpOHhCRbz.os-
Somewhere here...maybe it was on you tube...anyways, there was a guy that had wired up a bank of 2 and 3 way switches to control a 4 speed fan motor...hafta see if I can find it


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## Cpeder

I actual thought about Doing that. But I didn't have enough switches and the cost of the switch i ordered was cheap enough and look better any how.


----------



## spadjen

I decided to add two more sections of chimney making it a total of 22 feet. my draft has increased from .04-.05 to .05-.08 depending on where you are in the burn cycle or if the damper is open or closed. When the damper is open and the unit is burning a full load of wood, my draft is .07-.08 and flue temps of 650. It did spike to .09, but when that happens it drops back down likes its right on the edge. Prior to this I was only getting .04-.05 and 525 at the same point of the burn cycle. I know my draft is right on the edge of the maximum allowed, but I don't see any negative effects. Like excessive wood usage or high temperatures. It seems to operate better when at the end of the burn cycle. Also, when it calls for more heat it is quicker to respond. we will see how things progress over the next few days. This chimney is now past the peak of the roof, which helps with drown draft from the wind rolling over the roof top.


----------



## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> I decided to add two more sections of chimney making it a total of 22 feet. my draft has increased from .04-.05 to .05-.08 depending on where you are in the burn cycle or if the damper is open or closed. When the damper is open and the unit is burning a full load of wood, my draft is .07-.08 and flue temps of 650. It did spike to .09, but when that happens it drops back down likes its right on the edge. Prior to this I was only getting .04-.05 and 525 at the same point of the burn cycle. I know my draft is right on the edge of the maximum allowed, but I don't see any negative effects. Like excessive wood usage or high temperatures. It seems to operate better when at the end of the burn cycle. Also, when it calls for more heat it is quicker to respond. we will see how things progress over the next few days. This chimney is now past the peak of the roof, which helps with drown draft from the wind rolling over the roof top.
> View attachment 395156
> View attachment 395158
> 
> View attachment 395160
> View attachment 395154


I'm not sure where you live, but I know code for a chimney says it has to be 2' past peak of roof if within 10' of roof line. I can't tell from the picture how close you are to it.


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> I'm not sure where you live, but I know code for a chimney says it has to be 2' past peak of roof if within 10' of roof line. I can't tell from the picture how close you are to it.


2 feet past anything that is with in 10 feet. I am way past that. The support bracket polls are 8 feet horizontal


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## Cpeder

Wow that is hot for a tundra. I've never seen more then 350 with the inferred gun. My normal temps are 325 damper open and 175-215 damper closed. I tried to clean the chimney today and there was noting to clean. What wood are u burning? Do you know the MC of it? Also are u on the lowest fan setting or something?


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> Wow that is hot for a tundra. I've never seen more then 350 with the inferred gun. My normal temps are 325 damper open and 175-215 damper closed. I tried to clean the chimney today and there was noting to clean. What wood are u burning? Do you know the MC of it? Also are u on the lowest fan setting or something?


probably using a probe thermometer. When I probe mine it's usually at 650f and outside temp with magnetic is usually around 300f. Outside flue temp is way different than inside flue temp. If I open my door and shoot the fire directly with my inferred thermometer it usually is 800f plus, I've had the gun maxed out at over 1100f


----------



## Wisneaky

How much wood have you all used so far this year in your Tundra / Heatmax? I started burning early October and I'm at about 1 3/4 cord used. We have about 3 more months of heating here in Wisconsin so I figure I'll be at 3-3 1/2 cord by that time. I predicted I'd use 2 1/2, but it's been a pretty cold winter and I also had issues with that broken baffle that really made me eat through the wood.


----------



## spadjen

Cpeder said:


> Wow that is hot for a tundra. I've never seen more then 350 with the inferred gun. My normal temps are 325 damper open and 175-215 damper closed. I tried to clean the chimney today and there was noting to clean. What wood are u burning? Do you know the MC of it? Also are u on the lowest fan setting or something?




probe temp

Wood is the 18-22

more detailed post on page 54


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> How much wood have you all used so far this year in your Tundra / Heatmax? I started burning early October and I'm at about 1 3/4 cord used. We have about 3 more months of heating here in Wisconsin so I figure I'll be at 3-3 1/2 cord by that time. I predicted I'd use 2 1/2, but it's been a pretty cold winter and I also had issues with that broken baffle that really made me eat through the wood.



so far 1.5 to just under 2. so same as you.we have two weeks where the temperature was around 40 I'm going to drop back down to 10 degrees. having extreme temperature change in a short period time really shows the contrast of the amount of wood that's used when its cold or warm.where we are just warming up after February so I don't expect to use as much and even less in April


----------



## spadjen

Ok so I spoke too soon? I came home today and had half of the firebox full of coals. I should have taken a picture. The damper was wide open and the house was 64. The draft readings at that time was .04-.05. After extending my chimney to 22 feet my draft has increased to .08 at the peek of the burn cycle. The static pressure is .23 and the fan speed is at medium low with the snap disk set at 110. Wood is dry and seasoned. This is the first time since extending the chimney that this has happened. It is also the first time that the temps dropped to -1 and windy. So I have heard that some with epa stoves were having excessive coals when it was cold out. Does anyone know why this is? I did load more wood in the middle of the burn cycle to prepare for me not being home. It was half full of hot charcoal chunks at the time. The temp in the house was 70 and the thermostat was set to 71, so the damper was set to shut probably 5 mins after loading. I know that this did not help the situation, but don't think it is the cause of so many coals and a cold house. Usually I have pulling enough heat from the coals to keep the house warm.


----------



## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> Ok so I spoke too soon? I came home today and had half of the firebox full of coals. I should have taken a picture. The damper was wide open and the house was 64. The draft readings at that time was .04-.05. After extending my chimney to 22 feet my draft has increased to .08 at the peek of the burn cycle. The static pressure is .23 and the fan speed is at medium low with the snap disk set at 110. Wood is dry and seasoned. This is the first time since extending the chimney that this has happened. It is also the first time that the temps dropped to -1 and windy. So I have heard that some with epa stoves were having excessive coals when it was cold out. Does anyone know why this is? I did load more wood in the middle of the burn cycle to prepare for me not being home. It was half full of hot charcoal chunks at the time. The temp in the house was 70 and the thermostat was set to 71, so the damper was set to shut probably 5 mins after loading. I know that this did not help the situation, but don't think it is the cause of so many coals and a cold house. Usually I have pulling enough heat from the coals to keep the house warm.


It was more than likely from loading mid burn cycle. Mine will do the same thing.


----------



## flotek

It's mostly from reloading too soon before the charge is complete and on top of that using your most dense cordwood like maple hickory oak that is known for it's coal ability . Heavy coals in the coldest part of winter is common on this unit. . Coals provide some heat but not enough to sustain your house when it's in the teens or below atleast in my case that's what I see . You just burn them off by adding lots of air ( I crack the door and raise my thermostat way up ) shovel out the ash and start over with a good fresh reload of wood


----------



## spadjen

flotek said:


> It's mostly from reloading too soon before the charge is complete and on top of that using your most dense cordwood like maple hickory oak that is known for it's coal ability . Heavy coals in the coldest part of winter is common on this unit. . Coals provide some heat but not enough to sustain your house when it's in the teens or below atleast in my case that's what I see . You just burn them off by adding lots of air ( I crack the door and raise my thermostat way up ) shovel out the ash and start over with a good fresh reload of wood



Makes more sense now. Temps with a coal bed was 350, same as yesterday. Temp in the house was fine yesterday. Today it's a lot colder. That with the air infiltration it was not producing enough heat. With a full load of wood the flue temperature is 700. The Higher the flue temperature the higher the register temperature.


----------



## laynes69

With flue temps that high, I would bump up the blower speeds. Also, is the heat exchanger clean? Both things will increase heat output. Don't necessarily go off of duct temps.


----------



## spadjen

laynes69 said:


> With flue temps that high, I would bump up the blower speeds. Also, is the heat exchanger clean? Both things will increase heat output. Don't necessarily go off of duct temps.


That's low. I am quoting internal which should be. 500-800.


----------



## Cpeder

Just got the fan switch in I've been busy the past few days. I think the switch will be nice on warmer days to go back to the factory setting. If things get to hot I could always turn it all the way up with turn of the wrist.


----------



## newyorker

That's slick


----------



## Wisneaky

Cpeder said:


> Just got the fan switch in I've been busy the past few days. I think the switch will be nice on warmer days to go back to the factory setting. If things get to hot I could always turn it all the way up with turn of the wrist. View attachment 395478


what switch did you buy and where from?


----------



## Cpeder

Not bad for 10 bucks. I spent a big on the nest and the video camera but I love controlling the stove from my phone at work. Put a magnetic temp gauge on the exchanger door and I've watched enough to know where the temps normally are. I can view it from the camera anytime. I love it even more now


----------



## oldbloke

Anyone have problems with the heat exchanger access door? I installed my furnace in Dec 2014 and have been running it every day since. Today I opened the heat exchanger access door and I had one heck of a time closing it. Seems to be warped and is binding. It took a lot of strength to push it closed so that I could fasten it with the wing nut. Will it warp back into place? I'm going to call Drolet on Monday but was wondering if anyone else had this problem.


----------



## spadjen

oldbloke said:


> Anyone have problems with the heat exchanger access door? I installed my furnace in Dec 2014 and have been running it every day since. Today I opened the heat exchanger access door and I had one heck of a time closing it. Seems to be warped and is binding. It took a lot of strength to push it closed so that I could fasten it with the wing nut. Will it warp back into place? I'm going to call Drolet on Monday but was wondering if anyone else had this problem.



I had same problem. Check the hinge pins. The pins may be warped


----------



## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> I had same problem. Check the hinge pins. The pins may be warped


no problems with my hinge, but I should say something to SBI because the hole in the door where the wing nut goes is cut unevenly and there is a gap around it when closed.


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> no problems with my hinge, but I should say something to SBI because the hole in the door where the wing nut goes is cut unevenly and there is a gap around it when closed.


Mine is same way. Should be a washer there that closes the gap. My door would not shut and had to replace the pins. See if SBI will send you a new door and pins do you covered either way.


----------



## Wisneaky

spadjen said:


> Mine is same way. Should be a washer there that closes the gap. My door would not shut and had to replace the pins. See if SBI will send you a new door and pins do you covered either way.


Sorry I should have mentioned there is still a gap with the washer in place. The gap is on the outside of the washer. Surprised it doesn't leak smoke, even though I do smell some sometimes from it.


----------



## Cpeder

A 5 position rotary switch from grainger


----------



## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> what switch did you buy and where from?





Cpeder said:


> A 5 position rotary switch from grainger



Link posted on the last page. Post # 1114...


----------



## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Link posted on the last page. Post # 1114...


Thanks


----------



## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Link posted on the last page. Post # 1114...


I have to go over to St. Paul this week so I will just pick one up at Grainger when I am there.


----------



## oldbloke

spadjen said:


> I had same problem. Check the hinge pins. The pins may be warped


Thanks for the feedback on the heat exchanger door. Good point regarding the pins. They are the weakest part of the door and likely are warped. I will check into that and keep you all posted. Thanks again!


----------



## spadjen

Wisneaky said:


> Sorry I should have mentioned there is still a gap with the washer in place. The gap is on the outside of the washer. Surprised it doesn't leak smoke, even though I do smell some sometimes from it.


Definitely should send you a new one. That is not normal.


----------



## oldbloke

oldbloke said:


> Thanks for the feedback on the heat exchanger door. Good point regarding the pins. They are the weakest part of the door and likely are warped. I will check into that and keep you all posted. Thanks again!



So I spoke with Drolet support and they seemed surprised that there was such a problem. I told them that I wondered if the pins could have warped and they said not likely. The tech mentioned that maybe the gasket was not in its proper location and that could cause the door to bind. Also said to look very closely at the collar that the door closes against and if it is a little warped I could tap it down with a hammer. I took at look and did notice a slight warp. Instead of tapping it with a hammer I put a pipe wrench on it and applied a bit of pressure to bend it down. It did not need to move much but the door now works perfect with no binding. The gasket does look a little fatter in that area. I'm thinking it was a combination of the gasket and the slight warping of the collar.


----------



## spadjen

[QUOTE.="oldbloke, post: 5163135, member: 122427"]So I spoke with Drolet support and they seemed surprised that there was such a problem. I told them that I wondered if the pins could have warped and they said not likely. The tech mentioned that maybe the gasket was not in its proper location and that could cause the door to bind. Also said to look very closely at the collar that the door closes against and if it is a little warped I could tap it down with a hammer. I took at look and did notice a slight warp. Instead of tapping it with a hammer I put a pipe wrench on it and applied a bit of pressure to bend it down. It did not need to move much but the door now works perfect with no binding. The gasket does look a little fatter in that area. I'm thinking it was a combination of the gasket and the slight warping of the collar.[/QUOTE]

they are always surprised that there's a problem. Lol. glad it was a simple problem for you.for me I had to replace the pIns


----------



## Cpeder

Things have been great with the tundra for the past month but the past three days my draft is low. .03 when it's hot coals. Before it was .05 to 6. The temps are 25 right now high humidity no wind. I cleaned the chimney a week and a half ago even tho it didn't need cleaning. I'm having great secondary burns I'm just concerned with draft that low.


----------



## laynes69

Weather can wreak havoc on draft, especially if a front comes thru. If you keep a tube in the flue pipe, make sure the end of it is open. I've been fooled before by a partially plugged tube on the manometer.


----------



## Wisneaky

So this winter I've been cleaning my chimney once a month. I use a SootEater chimney brush. I have a 6" liner in my chimney. I'm wondering how much creosote you all get out of your chimney? Today I had about 4 cups worth. Seems like a lot to me. I've been burning white oak that's been seasoned two years. Moisture content is 15-20% tested with moisture meter. I'm not really worried about the creosote because it is just dry and flaky.


----------



## brenndatomu

Sounds about right. Might be just a hair less if the Oak was three YO...carry on


----------



## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Sounds about right. Might be just a hair less if the Oak was three YO...carry on


thanks


----------



## BrantSFGDS

Greetings all! I am seriously considering a Tundra but I read a post from somebody that said you must use a 6" chimney. I installed an old stove in my basement last year with all new 8" double and triple wall pipe and I really don't plan on replacing a year old chimney. The concern was that the unit may not function properly on a 8" chimney but I'm not sure if the concern would be too much or too little draft. Anyone care to comment on this? The only draft problem I have now is too much. I don't have a Mano but I know I have a lot of draft. I will install a Mano on the new furnace for sure and probably a baro. Thoughts?


----------



## Wisneaky

BrantSFGDS said:


> Greetings all! I am seriously considering a Tundra but I read a post from somebody that said you must use a 6" chimney. I installed an old stove in my basement last year with all new 8" double and triple wall pipe and I really don't plan on replacing a year old chimney. The concern was that the unit may not function properly on a 8" chimney but I'm not sure if the concern would be too much or too little draft. Anyone care to comment on this? The only draft problem I have now is too much. I don't have a Mano but I know I have a lot of draft. I will install a Mano on the new furnace for sure and probably a baro. Thoughts?


First Make your font bigger. It is too small.
The bigger chimney would cause too much draft. I think if you just put a barometric damper in you should be fine. You'd have to do 6" from the stove and increase to the 8" at the chimney.


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## BrantSFGDS

Ok, great! That's what I was hoping to hear. I don't know what happened with the font, fat fingers I reckon, lol.


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## BrantSFGDS

BrantSFGDS said:


> Ok, great! That's what I was hoping to hear. I don't know what happened with the font, fat fingers I reckon, lol.


Should I use a 6" or 8" Baro and how close should it be to the furnace? Also, should I also use a manual pipe damper as well? I'm only used to leaky old coal burners, not a hi-tech wood burner. Thanks much for the help!


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## brenndatomu

Wow, good thing I have good eyesite! 
Brant, you'll have too much draft when on high fire and not enough the rest of the time because the draft velocity will be too slow allowing it to cool too much. 8" chimney is almost double the flow of a 6" FYI. 8" is ~48 sq in vs ~27 for a 6". Nothing but problems!
Just drop a cheap 6" flex liner kit down the existing chimney...problem solved!
Oh BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, check out Menards.com...$1250 Tundras through 1/31/15. Hope you have one nearby!


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## Wisneaky

BrantSFGDS said:


> Should I use a 6" or 8" Baro and how close should it be to the furnace? Also, should I also use a manual pipe damper as well? I'm only used to leaky old coal burners, not a hi-tech wood burner. Thanks much for the help!


baro is supposed to be as close to the furnace as possible. The recommend no manual damper, but I was having problems with the baro so I just took it out and now use a manual damper. I don't know how high your draft will be with the 8" chimney. You'll have to test it with a meter. You'll of course have better draft with the right size chimney, but since you already installed a new 8" liner I'd just work around it with a baro or manual damper. One or the other but not both. Test the draft with a meter your best bet. Buy the Tundra at Menards. Great price right now.


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## BrantSFGDS

Woohoo! I pulled the trigger on the Tundra this morning! I'm sure I'll have more questions when I actually install it. Thanks for the heads up about Menards having a sale, funny thing is, I had checked Menards earlier in the day and it was not on sale, just the 11% rebate. I couldn't pass it up at the sale price!


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## brenndatomu

BrantSFGDS said:


> Thanks for the heads up about Menards having a sale, funny thing is, I had checked Menards earlier in the day and it was not on sale, just the 11% rebate. I couldn't pass it up at the sale price!


Yeah, I didn't notice anything until the site updated while I was on there. I had to log out and come back in just to make sure I was seeing the prices right!


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## stihly dan

BrantSFGDS said:


> Woohoo! I pulled the trigger on the Tundra this morning! I'm sure I'll have more questions when I actually install it. Thanks for the heads up about Menards having a sale, funny thing is, I had checked Menards earlier in the day and it was not on sale, just the 11% rebate. I couldn't pass it up at the sale price!



Me thinks you are going to have issues with the new unit on that chimney. Just sayin, chimney is the most important part of wood heating.


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## BrantSFGDS

Yeah, I'll have to see what happens with the chimney. I'm not going to install the stove until after winter for various reasons. I'm hoping that I have enough draft when the stack is cold and that the baro will regulate it once it gets hot. I will consider the flex liner if I don't have minimum draft on start up. I would be really surprised if I don't have enough draft even with a cold stack. I've got to order a Mano tomorrow.
Anyway, I'm not sure about how to go about the flex liner set up because my pipe goes through the wall, not sure I could snake a liner through there, or if I would need to.


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## flotek

There are a few guys I have helped that have a tundra going into a older clay lined exterior chimney . Just my personal observation in what they say leads me to believe they are going through more wood and getting less burn time than others . I attribute that to the air flap intake being ran for extended periods to try to compensate for the poor draft situation and inability to satisfy the t stat setting


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## Wisneaky

flotek said:


> There are a few guys I have helped that have a tundra going into a older clay lined exterior chimney . Just my personal observation in what they say leads me to believe they are going through more wood and getting less burn time than others . I attribute that to the air flap intake being ran for extended periods to try to compensate for the poor draft situation and inability to satisfy the t stat setting


they ever used a manometer to check the draft?


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## BrantSFGDS

I don't have this thing yet so I don't have all the specs yet but does this furnace call for a specific draft requirement?


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## Wisneaky

BrantSFGDS said:


> I don't have this thing yet so I don't have all the specs yet but does this furnace call for a specific draft requirement?


-.04 to -.08


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## brenndatomu

BrantSFGDS said:


> Anyway, I'm not sure about how to go about the flex liner set up because my pipe goes through the wall, not sure I could snake a liner through there, or if I would need to.


Flex liner with tee kit. You drop the liner down the chimney with the main body of the tee already clamped on. Once the liner is in place the snout of the tee is placed through the wall (where the stove pipe attaches) and clamped to the body of the tee from inside the snout. Sounds confusing but once you have one in your hand it becomes very obvious how it works and is very simple to do, even for a DIYer.


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## BrantSFGDS

Ol


brenndatomu said:


> Flex liner with tee kit. You drop the liner down the chimney with the main body of the tee already clamped on. Once the liner is in place the snout of the tee is placed through the wall (where the stove pipe attaches) and clamped to the body of the tee from inside the snout. Sounds confusing but once you have one in your hand it becomes very obvious how it works and is very simple to do, even for a DIYer.


 great! I was having a hard time visualizing the set up. First thing is to see what my draft is with a meter and hopefully I won't need the liner.


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## brenndatomu

BrantSFGDS said:


> Ol
> 
> great! I was having a hard time visualizing the set up. First thing is to see what my draft is with a meter and hopefully I won't need the liner.


I'm bettin you will need it, but yeah, try it out first if ya wanna. Only thing is, if you are gonna install the furnace this summer, you will have no way to get an accurate test of chimney until the weather gets good and cold, and at that point if (when ) you need the liner it will stink to do install in the cold weather. It's doable, I've done it, just no fun. 
At least with fire sale prices on the Tundra those savings will pay for the better part of a liner kit!


----------



## BrantSFGDS

brenndatomu said:


> I'm bettin you will need it, but yeah, try it out first if ya wanna. Only thing is, if you are gonna install the furnace this summer, you will have no way to get an accurate test of chimney until the weather gets good and cold, and at that point if (when ) you need the liner it will stink to do install in the cold weather. It's doable, I've done it, just no fun.
> At least with fire sale prices on the Tundra those savings will pay for the better part of a liner kit!


I'm guessing what little bit of 8" pipe there is inside the house wouldn't be an issue?


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## brenndatomu

No, you just need to make sure the new 6" snout is long enough to come out past it.


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## byron2

flotek said:


> There are a few guys I have helped that have a tundra going into a older clay lined exterior chimney . Just my personal observation in what they say leads me to believe they are going through more wood and getting less burn time than others . I attribute that to the air flap intake being ran for extended periods to try to compensate for the poor draft situation and inability to satisfy the t stat setting



I have the Heatmax plugged into a 8x8 masonry chimney which is inside the house... I'm probably 25ft from where the stove plugs in to the top...there is about 9ft going through the attic where its cold along with the chimney top 3 ft. outside... Problem one is the coaling issue but "I believe it was you who suggested" to crack the fill door open which helps ... I'm not sure what my draft is because I don't have the tool to check it and I'm not sure what to look for....

As for my house its a ranch built in the 70's 30 x 40 Ranch which has some problems ....could use better/new windows and more insulation in the attic R19 in the walls R19 ceiling ....At some point we will fix the windows maybe next summer...The attic is full of stuff which complicates fixing the problem up there as we need the storage space ... not to mention the ceiling joist are 2x6 and would need adding on to or something to get another 6 " in there big project and still have the storage...

For 30 plus years I've used a home built wood furnace and had no problem heating this house... probably average 5 cords a season.....but this heatmax below 10 degrees its a struggle to keep the temp up where I like it 73/75 ..... I should have studied what I was getting into with this Heatmax my fault there....The store had very little info with the display..So I should have done more research before buying .... I really wasn't looking for a rocket science wood burning stove but rather just trying to upgrade/replace the old one... I'm quite sure the heatmax would heat this house if all things were good but they are not at least for this winter..... At this point I'm not sure I'm willing to spend lets say 800 dollars on a liner for the chimney and when done still no guarantee I'm not going to have the coaling issue...... And I really don't want to baby sit this thing all the time ..... Sorry I'm venting a bit but I'm pretty sure I'm going to cut my losses with this one....Find something that will plug and play into a 8x8 masonry chimney and give me descent burn times......I want to thank everybody that posted in this thread as it was very helpful in understanding these EPA stoves.

One question has anyone ever thought about putting a hot air plenum on one of these things with a descent high/low limit switch to run the blower...the snap switches stink and the stove has very little hot air volume and quickly cuts the fan out ... just wondering.......thanks again Byron


----------



## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> I have the Heatmax plugged into a 8x8 masonry chimney which is inside the house..





byron2 said:


> At this point I'm not sure I'm willing to spend lets say 800 dollars on a liner for the chimney and when done still no guarantee I'm not going to have the coaling issue


The larger size of the chimney and the fact that the top half is exposed to outdoor temps is very likely much of the issue. You can buy a liner kit for ~$350 or so...insulation for it (real good idea) for another ~$250



byron2 said:


> I'm not sure what my draft is because I don't have the tool to check it and I'm not sure what to look for....


Go on fleabay or the like look for a Dwyer Mark II manometer. They can be had for $20 if you are willing to shop a bit.



byron2 said:


> One question has anyone ever thought about putting a hot air plenum on one of these things with a descent high/low limit switch to run the blower...the snap switches stink and the stove has very little hot air volume and quickly cuts the fan out ... just wondering.......thanks again Byron


It has been done. I'm getting ready to set one up like that here pretty soon too (for somebody else)
If your fan cycles too much you may not have the static pressure set right. How is it ducted into the house?


----------



## byron2

brenndatomu said:


> The larger size of the chimney and the fact that the top half is exposed to outdoor temps is very likely much of the issue. You can buy a liner kit for ~$350 or so...insulation for it (real good idea) for another ~$250
> 
> 
> Go on fleabay or the like look for a Dwyer Mark II manometer. They can be had for $20 if you are willing to shop a bit.
> 
> 
> It has been done. I'm getting ready to set one up like that here pretty soon too (for somebody else)
> If your fan cycles too much you may not have the static pressure set right. How is it ducted into the house?


 Thanks for the response Brenndatomu....yeah I think my draft is maybe a bit low at times I use a paper clip to hold the damper door open just a little when the stove is at an idle ... the crazy thing is I have a double flue chimney with two 8x8 flues... after 30 years of wood up one side it was pretty bad so I lined it with a 6" ss liner.....Now mind you I had the heatmax setting in the crate all info about the stove deep inside the thing .....My thinking after looking at the new ss 6 liner was that the wood stove would be far better off and safer in the good side of my chimney .... Sooooo I moved everything around unhooked the oil hot air spun it 180 degrees refit everything putting the oil in the new ss liner ..... lol ... Like I said I didn't research the heatmax and got little info at the stove where I got it.... I liked what I saw figured it was plug and play....my bad all around

Thanks for the meter info some of them things I've seen are big bucks I can handle $20....

I suppose there is another tool to measure the static pressure ? I set up to 8 inch round mains and took of those with 6 inch to 5 spots in the upstairs 4 x 12 registers .....

I like the plenum idea how big are you going...I figured cover the four holes on the top of the stove but have no Idea on how tall it should be or doesn't it even matter ?


----------



## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> I suppose there is another tool to measure the static pressure ?


I_ think_ you could do it with the Dwyer



byron2 said:


> I like the plenum idea how big are you going...I figured cover the four holes on the top of the stove but have no Idea on how tall it should be or doesn't it even matter ?


Whatever size the plenum on a Yukon Big Jack is...20"x 16" maybe? Yeah, height wouldn't really matter as long as you keep the required distance from combustibles...


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## flotek

Byron

It sounds like you have a high heat loss in your house . Modern EPA style furnaces don't roast you out like the old traditional grated units but they tend to burn longer and cleaner with smaller fire boxes . This produces a " softer " heat over a broader range of time ...and in order to keep your whole house in mid 70s on a 5 degree day with bad insulation and old windows it flat out requires a lot of btus ! Unfortunately That's not necessarily a strong point of these new secondary furnaces . A new Liner / flu setup and burning premium dry wood may be your answer to get that extra kick your looking for . It may be your wood is not as dry as it could be resulting in only mediocre heat output. I know for me a 300$ investment of loose cellulose blown in to my attic really helped hold the temperature in the house longer on the cold days


----------



## byron2

flotek said:


> Byron
> 
> It sounds like you have a high heat loss in your house . Modern EPA style furnaces don't roast you out like the old traditional grated units but they tend to burn longer and cleaner with smaller fire boxes . This produces a " softer " heat over a broader range of time ...and in order to keep your whole house in mid 70s on a 5 degree day with bad insulation and old windows it flat out requires a lot of btus ! Unfortunately That's not necessarily a strong point of these new secondary furnaces . A new Liner / flu setup and burning premium dry wood may be your answer to get that extra kick your looking for . It may be your wood is not as dry as it could be resulting in only mediocre heat output. I know for me a 300$ investment of loose cellulose blown in to my attic really helped hold the temperature in the house longer on the cold days


Yeah the old place needs a little tlc, its been good us over the years... The windows are needing replacement, I put storms on them in the winter but they are still cold....So that will be the first fix this coming summer.... I got the wood tree length in Feb of last year I cut it up probably by the end of March then split it mid to late summer...Its outside covered with a tarp over the top open on the sides so it could be better I suppose we are also thinking about coming off the house with a shed roof ... I guess I need to commit to keeping this stove before I add the liner My concern is , is the coaling issue still going to be there ?
got some things to think about....

I do like how the stove burns but its been a bit of a learning curve ....Cold days like today is when I have the biggest problem with coal build up ....Right now I'm burning them down making ready for the overnight load.. I appreciate you responding flotek great forum good info from everybody thank you


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## brenndatomu

Cpeder said:


> Put a magnetic temp gauge on the exchanger door and I've watched enough to know where the temps normally are.


So what kind of temps do you see?


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## bedrock1

Grey Ghost said:


> Thanks Flotek. If that's set that low, it doesn't cool the heat exchanger too quickly huh? Do the stock ones have problems or are they just set too high? Just curious. I'm just wondering if that's my problem because it just started not heating as well (or long) out of the blue. Very happy with the furnace till it started chewing through the wood all the sudden.


hi im am new to the site I have trouble with my heat max my blower wont run long , I have 6 cord of wood gone in 3 months and no heat in my house. im not happy at all with my drolet, sbi is sending me a new 110/90 I will try that .


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> hi im am new to the site I have trouble with my heat max my blower wont run long , I have 6 cord of wood gone in 3 months and no heat in my house. im not happy at all with my drolet, sbi is sending me a new 110/90 I will try that .


If the blower won't run long than the blower is more than likely set too high. Lower the blower speed to the lowest setting. I have mine set on the lowest and mine blows almost all the time.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> If the blower won't run long than the blower is more than likely set too high. Lower the blower speed to the lowest setting. I have mine set on the lowest and mine blows almost all the time.


Hi I have the blower set low as it can go


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> Hi I have the blower set low as it can go


what did sbi say?


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> what did sbi say?


Never said much going to send me a thermodisc the is 110f to 90 I guess the other is trouble


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> Never said much going to send me a thermodisc the is 110f to 90 I guess the other is trouble


Is your wood dry? Do you know what your draft is? I put a fresh load of wood on my fire 4 hours ago and my blower has only turned off 3 times. I have a magnetic thermometer on the fire box and my temp is about 350 degrees.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> Is your wood dry? Do you know what your draft is? I put a fresh load of wood on my fire 4 hours ago and my blower has only turned off 3 times. I have a magnetic thermometer on the fire box and my temp is about 350 degrees.


The wood is not really dry but not not bad I don't know what the draft is.I don't have a manometer. I was reading about the thermodisc is trouble, what type of furnace u have.


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> The wood is not really dry but not not bad I don't know what the draft is.I don't have a manometer. I was reading about the thermodisc is trouble, what type of furnace u have.


I have the Tundra which is the same as the heatmax. Two things this furnace needs is really dry wood and the right draft to operate correctly.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> I have the Tundra which is the same as the heatmax. Two things this furnace needs is really dry wood and the right draft to operate correctly.


If I had a manometer ,the wood is not to bad.


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## bedrock1

I yours have the thermodisc on the back or on top


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> If I had a manometer ,the wood is not to bad.


There is wood that I think isn't bad either until I check it with the meter and its still way too wet. Unless your wood is two years old and been split the whole time its more than likely still too wet. My recommendation is to buy a moisture meter and manometer. What kind of wood you burning?


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> I yours have the thermodisc on the back or on top


My original one is on back, but I installed the one on top that comes with the cold air return kit. I like the one on top because it lets the firebox run hotter.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> My original one is on back, but I installed the one on top that comes with the cold air return kit. I like the one on top because it lets the firebox run hotter.


Oh I did not get to new update one


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> Oh I did not get to new update one


You have to buy the cold air return kit to get the top mounted one.


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## Wisneaky

here is the kit http://www.ruralking.com/hardware/c...od-heaters/tundra-furnace-air-return-kit.html


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> You have to buy the cold air return kit to get the top mounted one.


How much is the ket


Wisneaky said:


> here is the kit http://www.ruralking.com/hardware/c...od-heaters/tundra-furnace-air-return-kit.html


Thanks so u have to cut a new hole ,so does the new one fit in


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> How much is the ket
> 
> Thanks so u have to cut a new hole ,so does the new one fit in


It's been awhile since I installed it, but I don't think there was any cutting involved. It comes with a plate you screw on top and the new thermodisc attaches to that plate.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> It's been awhile since I installed it, but I don't think there was any cutting involved. It comes with a plate you screw on top and the new thermodisc attaches to that plate.


OK thanks I guess will help to keep my blower in a little longer. How much wood u burn .


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> OK thanks I guess will help to keep my blower in a little longer. How much wood u burn .


I'm at about 2 1/2 cords so far this winter. I had some issues where my vermiculite baffle cracked and it was burning through a lot of wood. I'm kind of in a bad spot right now because the rest of my wood is out in my shed and it's wetter than it should be so I'm going to use more. Next year I'll make sure I have more dry stuff in the basement to begin with.


----------



## brenndatomu

bedrock1 said:


> Oh I did not get to new update one


Hey there, me again. Just can't get away from me can you?! 
When you get the new switch if it doesn't make any difference then maybe SBI will send you the parts to relocate the switch.
But it sure sounds like the switch is only part of the problem, like I said before, and now Wisneaky is saying, don't underestimate the effect of not having really dry wood. If everything else is right and you have sub par wood it is still not gonna make good heat for you. Thats the nature of the beast on all of the newer clean burn furnaces including the Max.
The other thing is the chimney. The furnace is just a metal box with a fire in it. The chimney is the "engine" that drives the furnace to work. If you don't have proper draft. you are done. If you think of the furnace as a 1 ton 4x4 pickup, you want a big powerful engine in a 1 ton because you only buy those to do work. But if you have a chimney that doesn't work right, it's like having a 1500cc 4 cyl engine in that 1 ton truck. Nobody is gonna be happy with that. It's not the trucks fault it doesn't have any power, she's ready to carry a heavy load, just doesn't have the power to do it.
With that said, what is your chimney like? External to the house? Masonary? Internal size? If it is lined, is it insulated?


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## bedrock1

brenndatomu said:


> Hey there, me again. Just can't get away from me can you?!
> When you get the new switch if it doesn't make any difference then maybe SBI will send you the parts to relocate the switch.
> But it sure sounds like the switch is only part of the problem, like I said before, and now Wisneaky is saying, don't underestimate the effect of not having really dry wood. If everything else is right and you have sub par wood it is still not gonna make good heat for you. Thats the nature of the beast on all of the newer clean burn furnaces including the Max.
> The other thing is the chimney. The furnace is just a metal box with a fire in it. The chimney is the "engine" that drives the furnace to work. If you don't have proper draft. you are done. If you thing of the furnace as a 1 ton 4x4 pickup, you want a big powerful engine in a 1 ton because you only buy those to do work. But if you have a chimney that doesn't work right, it's like having a 1500cc 4 cyl engine in the truck. Nobody is gonna be happy with that. It's not the trucks fault it doesn't have any power, she's ready to carry a heavy load, just doesn't have the power to do it.
> With that said, what is your chimney like? External to the house? Masonary? Internal size? If it is lined, is it insulated?


Im getting good draft I installed a baro regulator a few days ago, I have a prefab in side my house


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> Im getting good draft I installed a baro regulator a few days ago, I have a prefab in side my house


Just because you have a baro doesn't mean your getting good draft. You really need a manometer to find out what the draft is. It's almost impossible to even set a baro correctly without one.


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## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> Just because you have a baro doesn't mean your getting good draft. You really need a manometer to find out what the draft is. It's almost impossible to even set a baro correctly without one.


+1 on that ^ ^ ^


----------



## bedrock1

Yeah I know what u mean. If i


Wisneaky said:


> Just because you have a baro doesn't mean your getting good draft. You really need a manometer to find out what the draft is. It's almost impossible to even set a baro correctly without one.


 Yeah I know what u mean if I can find one cheap


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## brenndatomu

bedrock1 said:


> Yeah I know what u mean. If i
> 
> Yeah I know what u mean if I can find one cheap


Go on fleabay or the big "A", search Dwyer manometer, look for a Dwyer Mark II, I have bought 2 of them now that way for $20 or under delivered. If you don't want to wait for a deal then $30 - $40 is easy to find on there right now. This model works great for this application. Oh, and make sure what you buy has the red gauge oil with it, it is pricey to buy separately.


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## bedrock1

brenndatomu said:


> Go on fleabay or the big "A", search Dwyer manometer, look for a Dwyer Mark II, I have bought 2 of them now that way for $20 or under delivered. If you don't want to wait for a deal then $30 - $40 is easy to find on there right now. This model works great for this application. Oh, and make sure what you buy has the red gauge oil with it, it is pricey to buy separately.


OK thanks I will do


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> Yeah I know what u mean. If i
> 
> Yeah I know what u mean if I can find one cheap


I bought this digital one from Amazon. It costs a little more, but I like it better than the other ones. http://www.amazon.com/Meters-PDMM01...UTF8&qid=1423407934&sr=8-1&keywords=manometer


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## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> I bought this digital one from Amazon. It costs a little more, but I like it better than the other ones. http://www.amazon.com/Meters-PDMM01...UTF8&qid=1423407934&sr=8-1&keywords=manometer


Wow, that's a good price for a digital meter. I'm partial to an "analog" meter like the Mark II for a reading like draft that can jump around a bit pretty quickly. Just me, personal preference. Digital would probably be easier for the average Joe to operate


----------



## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> OK thanks I will do


I have to call you out on a few things. I went over to hearth forums and read your posts over there. On here you said you used 3 cords of wood so far over there you said you used 5-6 cords so far. You don't know what your draft if, but you say its good because you have a baro. You didn't mention it here, but on the other forum you said your burning birch which burns must faster and produces less btu than some other hard wood. If you seriously think there is a problem with the furnace than there is a problem with you. Everything you posted comes down to a problem with the operator, not the furnace.


----------



## newyorker

What he said ^


----------



## Wisneaky

One other thing I'd like to add. I looked at your pictures on the other forum with your damper shut and your fire is burning too hard so I bet your draft is way too high. The fire will burn through wood, but all your heat is being lost up the chimney. Set the baro so it opens up more to keep the heat back in the firebox. Here is a picture of mine and you can see the fire is just barely burning.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> I have to call you out on a few things. I went over to hearth forums and read your posts over there. On here you said you used 3 cords of wood so far over there you said you used 5-6 cords so far. You don't know what your draft if, but you say its good because you have a baro. You didn't mention it here, but on the other forum you said your burning birch which burns must faster and produces less btu than some other hard wood. If you seriously think there is a problem with the furnace than there is a problem with you. Everything you posted comes down to a problem with the operator, not the furnace.


Now I know from what u guys have told me I just have to fix the problem .


----------



## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> I have to call you out on a few things. I went over to hearth forums and read your posts over there. On here you said you used 3 cords of wood so far over there you said you used 5-6 cords so far. You don't know what your draft if, but you say its good because you have a baro. You didn't mention it here, but on the other forum you said your burning birch which burns must faster and produces less btu than some other hard wood. If you seriously think there is a problem with the furnace than there is a problem with you. Everything you posted comes down to a problem with the operator, not the furnace.


I guess I wrote the cords wrong but o have burn 5/6 cord. I will get the new up date that location of the thermodisc and get a manometer


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> I guess I wrote the cords wrong but o have burn 5/6 cord. I will get the new up date that location of the thermodisc and get a manometer


back that screw on the baro all the way out and turn it in about 1/4 turn. Try it once and let me know if it helps. If you get smoke coming back in just turn it another 1/4 until the smoke stops.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> back that screw on the baro all the way out and turn it in about 1/4 turn. Try it once and let me know if it helps. If you get smoke coming back in just turn it another 1/4 until the smoke stops.


I will do that I will let u know, u guy are very helpful.


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## Wisneaky

bedrock1 said:


> I will do that I will let u know, u guy are very helpful.


We try to help.


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## brenndatomu

bedrock1 said:


> I guess I wrote the cords wrong but o have burn 5/6 cord. I will get the new up date that location of the thermodisc and get a manometer


Are you posting from a phone? A lot of typos sometimes, makes it hard to follow, just sayin. Anyways, sound like you are on the right track toward having to open the house windows to let some of that Tundra heat out...


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## bedrock1

brenndatomu said:


> Are you posting from a phone? A lot of typos sometimes, makes it hard to follow, just sayin. Anyways, sound like you are on the right track toward having to open the house windows to let some of that Tundra heat out...


Yeah most of the time I'm on the phone. Lol I hoping


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## Wisneaky

I'm usually on here on my phone also. I always have to go back and edit my post because this stupid phone puts the wrong words in.


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## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> I'm usually on here on my phone also. I always have to go back and edit my post because this stupid phone puts the wrong words in.


My MILs phone tried to slip in the F bomb on one of her text to my wife, she caught it though...last minute. She was blushing just telling us the story later!


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## stihly dan

Are you guys doing the talk to text or actually typing it into the phone. I find it very difficult to read/scroll/reply to AS on the phone. So much so I almost never do it.


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## bedrock1

stihly dan said:


> Are you guys doing the talk to text or actually typing it into the phone. I find it very difficult to read/scroll/reply to AS on the phone. So much so I almost never do it.


Texting


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## Wisneaky

stihly dan said:


> Are you guys doing the talk to text or actually typing it into the phone. I find it very difficult to read/scroll/reply to AS on the phone. So much so I almost never do it.


I'm just typing. Actually it used to be really horrible on here using a phone, but they must of did some updates because it's much better now.


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## Christusrex54

Hello everyone, 

First let me say thanks to all of you who have shared so much information on here and are so willing to help others figure out their problems. I have been stalking this thread for a year or so now. I was so excited to quit using the 40 year old add-on that came with my house and switch to the tundra and save all kinds of wood. Well, now I'm considering contacting drolet to see if they will take the stupid thing back. Before I do that, I figure I'll come on here and see if you guys can help me out. I still have hope that I can get this furnace to function at a decent level, but right now ( in -10 or -20 wind chill) I have to load 5-7 times a day to keep my house decent. So, here is a little information, and thank you all for your time and input.

My house is 1400 square feet. Decent insulation around and on top, but I have a sunroom exposed on three sides with big windows and sliding doors and it's a freezing crawl space underneath. My masonry chimney was 7 X 13 or so and after doing a bunch of research ( and checking with the company) I went with the 5.5 inch chimney liner. Barely fit it, the 6 inch wouldn't have a chance. The two 8 inch ducts feed into my furnace plenum and there is a limit switch to trigger the main furnace fan because honestly, the fan on the tundra, on med-high, can't get the heat anywhere close to my upstairs.

Here are my questions/concerns
1. Let's start with the chimney. Wisneaky, I have your digital manometer. How do you check the pressure? Do I shove the plastic tube in the stove pipe? Or keep it flush with the pipe? Where should it be reading what? You guys have thrown all kinds of numbers out there, but nobody really clarifies whether the flap is open or closed and whether the fire is hot, cooling, or cold. Oh, and it was hard enough to get the wife to agree that we needed all this stuff, so please, please, please tell me that we can make the 5.5 inch chimney work.

2. I have a magnetic thermometer on the stove pipe, but no internal probe. I know most of you basically ignore the magnetic ones on the stove pipe, so we won't go there. But it seems to be standard to have the magnetic one on the clean out door. Can you guys tell me how hot that gets for you guys? And after the flap closes and opens again, how hot does it get to then?

3. One of my problems (in my estimation) is that I can't catch up. I have the thermostat set to 73 ( in the warm part of the house - bedrooms, hallway on top of furnace room) which makes the other side of the house (kitchen, dining room, sunroom) around 67-68. At night, this side of the house drops below 60. Anyways, the house is cold which keeps the flap open almost constantly. But even when the house warms up, the flap will close, I'll have that cool slow moving fire with the secondaries firing and I'll watch my fire die to 200 or less. Even when the flap opens again, the fire can't get hot enough to do anything.

4. Whoever installed the AC in the house put the coils at the top of the plenum. This means I have to put the ducts from the tundra under the AC coils. Is this causing the huge difficulty in getting the heat up stairs? I mean, I have 600 degree fires (on the thermometer on the clean out door) and my house will go up 2-4 degrees the entire length if the fire. 

5. The static pressure thing. I think the number I want is .22 or so, right? Where do I check it? I can tell you in individual 8 inch ducts, with the he fan on med-high, it is about .14. When the main furnace fan kicks on, it jumps to .46 in each one. Is there someplace else I should check it?

That's all I got for now. Thanks in advance for reading this long post and thank you also for any advice and tips you can offer.


----------



## Wisneaky

Christusrex54 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> First let me say thanks to all of you who have shared so much information on here and are so willing to help others figure out their problems. I have been stalking this thread for a year or so now. I was so excited to quit using the 40 year old add-on that came with my house and switch to the tundra and save all kinds of wood. Well, now I'm considering contacting drolet to see if they will take the stupid thing back. Before I do that, I figure I'll come on here and see if you guys can help me out. I still have hope that I can get this furnace to function at a decent level, but right now ( in -10 or -20 wind chill) I have to load 5-7 times a day to keep my house decent. So, here is a little information, and thank you all for your time and input.
> 
> My house is 1400 square feet. Decent insulation around and on top, but I have a sunroom exposed on three sides with big windows and sliding doors and it's a freezing crawl space underneath. My masonry chimney was 7 X 13 or so and after doing a bunch of research ( and checking with the company) I went with the 5.5 inch chimney liner. Barely fit it, the 6 inch wouldn't have a chance. The two 8 inch ducts feed into my furnace plenum and there is a limit switch to trigger the main furnace fan because honestly, the fan on the tundra, on med-high, can't get the heat anywhere close to my upstairs.
> 
> Here are my questions/concerns
> 1. Let's start with the chimney. Wisneaky, I have your digital manometer. How do you check the pressure? Do I shove the plastic tube in the stove pipe? Or keep it flush with the pipe? Where should it be reading what? You guys have thrown all kinds of numbers out there, but nobody really clarifies whether the flap is open or closed and whether the fire is hot, cooling, or cold. Oh, and it was hard enough to get the wife to agree that we needed all this stuff, so please, please, please tell me that we can make the 5.5 inch chimney work.
> 
> 2. I have a magnetic thermometer on the stove pipe, but no internal probe. I know most of you basically ignore the magnetic ones on the stove pipe, so we won't go there. But it seems to be standard to have the magnetic one on the clean out door. Can you guys tell me how hot that gets for you guys? And after the flap closes and opens again, how hot does it get to then?
> 
> 3. One of my problems (in my estimation) is that I can't catch up. I have the thermostat set to 73 ( in the warm part of the house - bedrooms, hallway on top of furnace room) which makes the other side of the house (kitchen, dining room, sunroom) around 67-68. At night, this side of the house drops below 60. Anyways, the house is cold which keeps the flap open almost constantly. But even when the house warms up, the flap will close, I'll have that cool slow moving fire with the secondaries firing and I'll watch my fire die to 200 or less. Even when the flap opens again, the fire can't get hot enough to do anything.
> 
> 4. Whoever installed the AC in the house put the coils at the top of the plenum. This means I have to put the ducts from the tundra under the AC coils. Is this causing the huge difficulty in getting the heat up stairs? I mean, I have 600 degree fires (on the thermometer on the clean out door) and my house will go up 2-4 degrees the entire length if the fire.
> 
> 5. The static pressure thing. I think the number I want is .22 or so, right? Where do I check it? I can tell you in individual 8 inch ducts, with the he fan on med-high, it is about .14. When the main furnace fan kicks on, it jumps to .46 in each one. Is there someplace else I should check it?
> 
> That's all I got for now. Thanks in advance for reading this long post and thank you also for any advice and tips you can offer.
> View attachment 404070
> View attachment 404071
> View attachment 404072
> View attachment 404073


Right where you have that thermometer on your pipe drill a hole and take the reading there. Zero it out first before you take the reading. I try to take the reading with a hot fire and the front damper shut. Shove it in the hole about 3 inches. You want it to read about -.06


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## flotek

First is the wood well seasoned and dry ? Minus 20 wind chill is going to eat wood no matter what you have but you shouldn't be filling it more than 3-4 times in a day .. Do you have a high heat loss was the old unit capable


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## bedrock1

flotek said:


> First is the wood well seasoned and dry ? Minus 20 wind chill is going to eat wood no matter what you have but you shouldn't be filling it more than 3-4 times in a day .. Do you have a high heat loss was the old unit capable


Hi how often does your blower cut in. What thermodisc does your furnace have, I have a heat max same as the tundra I'm having something similar trouble as u eat a lot of wood not really heating my 1000sq/ft house. But my blower won't cut in that often with the damper close, so the guys on here was very helpful then they figured out that they change the location of the thermodisc on top of the furnace because u have a lot of heat to cut the blower in.


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## brenndatomu

Christusrex54 said:


> Do I shove the plastic tube in the stove pipe?


No, get a piece of metal tubing, 1' or so, insert that into the flue pipe, then attach the rubber tubing to that.
How are you checking the static pressure? To me the duct air temp means as much as anything...more than SP, IMO
Also, can you close the "sun" room off from the rest of the house during this cold weather?


bedrock1 said:


> Hi how often does your blower cut in. What thermodisc does your furnace have, I have a heat max same as the tundra I'm having something similar trouble as u eat a lot of wood not really heating my 1000sq/ft house. But my blower won't cut in that often with the damper close, so the guys on here was very helpful then they figured out that they change the location of the thermodisc on top of the furnace because u have a lot of heat to cut the blower in.


Did the new location work for you B1?


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## laynes69

I'm willing to bet, your coil is robbing heat from the woodfurnace. Also with the central furnace running it's blower, it's even cooler. You want the ducts from the woodfurnace tied into the ductwork above the coil with a backdraft damper to prevent backflow and increase pressure in the system. Doing this will allow for fully heated air to travel in one direction. I suspect this is your main problem, the other issue would be getting your draft in check. I wouldn't worry about static pressure. 

If your crawlspace is freezing, I would investigate and see what could be done to reduce drafts, or heat loss.


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## bedrock1

brenndatomu said:


> No, get a piece of metal tubing, 1' or so, insert that into the flue pipe, then attach the rubber tubing to that.
> How are you checking the static pressure? To me the duct air temp means as much as anything...more than SP, IMO
> Also, can you close the "sun" room off from the rest of the house during this cold weather?
> 
> Did the new location work for you B1?


I'm hoping to get the kit today I let u know


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## Christusrex54

Thanks for your responses.

wisneaky, I have a hole right next to where the pipe goes into the furnace so I checked there. With the damper open and closed and the fire at 400 degrees, my draft was a min of .06 max of .10 and an average of .08. Is this a big enough problem worthy of getting a baro? It's amazing how people on other sites make you sound stupid for even considering using a baro with wood stoves because of the danger of creosote.

Bedrock, I still have the thermodisc on the back, which is 120-10. I just looked at it and was hoping it was something different hoping that would help. I'm hoping to avoid paying over 100 bucks for the pieces to put the thermodisc on top. Do I need it?

Flotek, I'm sure I have heat loss, but I'm cutting it out wherever I can find it. I've burned through the amount of wood I thought I would burn this year and the stuff I was saving for next year. I know not all of it is seasoned like it should be, but even the loads I am confident of, it doesn't seem to matter. Honestly, I can handle struggling through this year if I can figure it out and have it ready to go for next year.

Brenn, How do you guys measure the duct temp? Sun room is wide open to kitchen and dining room, no closing it off. It's a good 20' - 25' run of duct to get to that side of the house anyways, then to have ducts that have to run to the far side of the sun room, there just isn't much pressure there even with the main furnace fan.

Layne, that, in my mind also, my biggest problem. I want to move the AC coils down and the tundra ducts above it, but I'm thinking that is an extensive project best saved for the summer. I heated last couple of years with a system like this and while I went through a crapload of wood with the old hog, it kept the house a little warmer than this. 

More questions: 
1. does anyone else have AC coils above tundra ducts?

2. I used to have the cold air return hooked up, but I turned my whole setup to reduce elbows in my chimney and haven't setup it up under the advice of a furnace guy who I admit probably didn't have a lot of experience with good wood heat set ups. Am I a fool for not having the cold air return hooked up yet?


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## brenndatomu

The creosote thing _is_ a problem with a baro, I have mine covered up and using the manual damper instead as I type this.
Another problem with having the AC coil above is that the drip trays on modern AC coils are plastic and with wood heat the air can get hot enough to melt that, not that you are there right now, but just FYI and another reason to move it.
If your old smoke dragon furnace didn't really keep up then the Tundra won't either in it's current setup. The old style wood furnaces had more on demand fire power if it was needed. If you get a few things sorted out then the Tundra should do a nice job for you...


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## Christusrex54

Another question for you all. For those of you who have your tundra ducts going into the plenum of another furnace...do you have the tundra ducts inside it pointed up, or just into the side? I was with someone else installing a simple Daka wood furnace and their instruction manual makes it seems required to point the ducts up inside the plenum. Now, My plenum isn't big enough to point both up, but I could do one and was wondering if others did/needed to do this.


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## brenndatomu

Christusrex54 said:


> do you have the tundra ducts inside it pointed up, or just into the side?


Shouldn't really matter as long as you have a backdraft damper between where you tie in and the fossil fuel furnace. Also need backdraft dampers on the 8" lines coming off the Tundra so it doesn't backfeed when the furnace or AC is running


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## bedrock1

Christusrex54 said:


> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> wisneaky, I have a hole right next to where the pipe goes into the furnace so I checked there. With the damper open and closed and the fire at 400 degrees, my draft was a min of .06 max of .10 and an average of .08. Is this a big enough problem worthy of getting a baro? It's amazing how people on other sites make you sound stupid for even considering using a baro with wood stoves because of the danger of creosote.
> 
> Bedrock, I still have the thermodisc on the back, which is 120-10. I just looked at it and was hoping it was something different hoping that would help. I'm hoping to avoid paying over 100 bucks for the pieces to put the thermodisc on top. Do I need it?
> 
> Flotek, I'm sure I have heat loss, but I'm cutting it out wherever I can find it. I've burned through the amount of wood I thought I would burn this year and the stuff I was saving for next year. I know not all of it is seasoned like it should be, but even the loads I am confident of, it doesn't seem to matter. Honestly, I can handle struggling through this year if I can figure it out and have it ready to go for next year.
> 
> Brenn, How do you guys measure the duct temp? Sun room is wide open to kitchen and dining room, no closing it off. It's a good 20' - 25' run of duct to get to that side of the house anyways, then to have ducts that have to run to the far side of the sun room, there just isn't much pressure there even with the main furnace fan.
> 
> Layne, that, in my mind also, my biggest problem. I want to move the AC coils down and the tundra ducts above it, but I'm thinking that is an extensive project best saved for the summer. I heated last couple of years with a system like this and while I went through a crapload of wood with the old hog, it kept the house a little warmer than this.
> 
> More questions:
> 1. does anyone else have AC coils above tundra ducts?
> 
> 2. I used to have the cold air return hooked up, but I turned my whole setup to reduce elbows in my chimney and haven't setup it up under the advice of a furnace guy who I admit probably didn't have a lot of experience with good wood heat set ups. Am I a fool for not having the cold air return hooked up yet?


If u call SBI they will send u the 110/90 free it should cut your furnace blower in more. Does your blower cut in much.


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## flotek

You may need the newer snap switch . When I got mine it wouldn't heat my house till I got an adjustable one and set it lower


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## byron2

Christuurex if the furnace is in a cold space every time the blower comes on its putting cold air into the system fast and cooling the fire box down fast also .....I would also think the AC coil is sucking some of the heat out of the hot air also by conduction loss....

update for others on my setup
I've been testing my droplet with a 120/15 snap loosely located on the top of the furnace "just forward of the cut out snap" for a couple days now......And quick thinking for my setup is its far better than the rear location..... The thing that's helped me the most is when I have coal build up the fan cycles far more than it did using the snap on the back.....So I'm getting more heat delivered upstairs from the coals than I was before.... big help really.......Today I was going to see if I could set the rear snap in line with the test snap I'm using "I have an adjustable in the back" see if I can get it in the same range as the test snap up top....before I go ahead and nail down the move..... defiantly think a cold return to the upstairs is in order for me.... its not super cold down there but for sure colder at the floor than it is up here.....


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## bedrock1

flotek said:


> You may need the newer snap switch . When I got mine it wouldn't heat my house till I got an adjustable one and set it lower


I'm going to get one and try it.


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## Wisneaky

I think I figured out the coaling issue that people are having. I installed a good field controls baro and I did a test. I burnt a load of white oak that isn't fully dry. I set the baro to fully open which on my manometer was about -.04 and let it burn. My burn time dropped to about 4 hours and I had a half a firebox full of coals. It was burning hot, but throwing hardly any heat. I burnt that load down set the baro to close and loaded it back up with the same wood and got the monometer at about -.06 to -.08 this time it burned for 7 hours and burnt down to fine ash and threw heat the whole time. If this wood would have been dry I'm sure I would of had heat for 10 hours. With this test I'm pretty sure coaling issues come down to not enough draft. Hope this helps.


----------



## stihly dan

Christusrex54 said:


> Another question for you all. For those of you who have your tundra ducts going into the plenum of another furnace...do you have the tundra ducts inside it pointed up, or just into the side? I was with someone else installing a simple Daka wood furnace and their instruction manual makes it seems required to point the ducts up inside the plenum. Now, My plenum isn't big enough to point both up, but I could do one and was wondering if others did/needed to do this.



Do you or do you not have a backdraft damper on your gas furnace? If not, that is your issue.


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## bedrock1

Wisneaky said:


> I think I figured out the coaling issue that people are having. I installed a good field controls baro and I did a test. I burnt a load of white oak that isn't fully dry. I set the bar to fully open which on my manometer was about -.04 and let it burn. My burn time dropped to about 4 hours and I had a half a firebox full of coals. It was burning hot, but throwing hardly any heat. I burnt that load down set the baro to close and loaded it back up with the same wood and got the monometer at about -.06 to -.08 this time it burned for 7 hours and burnt down to fine ash and threw heat the whole time. If this wood would have been dry I'm sure I would of had heat for 10 hours. With this test I'm pretty sure coaling issues come down to not enough draft. Hope this helps.


that nice to know thanks


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## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> I think I figured out the coaling issue that people are having. I installed a good field controls baro and I did a test. I burnt a load of white oak that isn't fully dry. I set the baro to fully open which on my manometer was about -.04 and let it burn. My burn time dropped to about 4 hours and I had a half a firebox full of coals. It was burning hot, but throwing hardly any heat. I burnt that load down set the baro to close and loaded it back up with the same wood and got the monometer at about -.06 to -.08 this time it burned for 7 hours and burnt down to fine ash and threw heat the whole time. If this wood would have been dry I'm sure I would of had heat for 10 hours. With this test I'm pretty sure coaling issues come down to not enough draft. Hope this helps.


Hey Wisneaky..... I'm fairly sure part of my problem is draft in that I don't have enough when the stove is at idle.....So I need to pickup a meter see just what it is.... Are you checking yours at idle damper door closed ? Wouldn't tweaking open the damper door increase draft in the chimney ? I guess I'm a bit confused how things work ......


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## Christusrex54

Dan, I do have a backdraft damper. The furnace people said they didn't have one so I'd have to get one made. So it is home made and I'd say it keeps out 90% of the air or more. But if the air has to choose between struggling through the AC coils and then going down long runs of ductwork, or finding gaps in the backdraft damper and then going through the much shorter run through the cold air return, I don't know how much goes where. 

Can you guys tell me what you use to check the ductwork temperature? Can I use a meat thermometer?

Also, where do I check to find out the static temperature?


----------



## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> Hey Wisneaky..... I'm fairly sure part of my problem is draft in that I don't have enough when the stove is at idle.....So I need to pickup a meter see just what it is.... Are you checking yours at idle damper door closed ? Wouldn't tweaking open the damper door increase draft in the chimney ? I guess I'm a bit confused how things work ......


I check it with a good burning fire and with the front damper closed. About 20 minutes after fire has been started. Do you have a baro installed? I tried one of those cheaper ones with no luck, but this field controls one actually works. Yes opening the front damper will let more air in, but I'm not going to hold it open all the time. If you can get the draft right you can get a good burning fire with no coaling. I know without a baro my chimney drafts at -.12 so I need a baro to slow mine down or all my wood would burn up fast and the heat would go up the flue. If yours doesn't have enough draft than you'd need to extend you flue to increase draft.


----------



## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> I check it with a good burning fire and with the front damper closed. About 20 minutes after fire has been started. Do you have a baro installed? I tried one of those cheaper ones with no luck, but this field controls one actually works. Yes opening the front damper will let more air in, but I'm not going to hold it open all the time. If you can get the draft right you can get a good burning fire with no coaling. I know without a baro my chimney drafts at -.12 so I nerd a baro to slow mine down or all my wood would burn up fast and the heat would go up the flue. If yours doesn't have enough draft than you'd need to extend you flue to increase draft.


 Well I'll get a meter coming in the next day or two....I'm plugged into a masonry 8x8 from where it plugs in to the top is 25 ft.. It goes up through the house 9 ft in the attic 3 ft above the roof ... My glass stays clean and all... I do keep the damper tweaked open just a touch with a paper clip..... There is a number of things I can improve on next year one being having some soft wood around.... thanks for all your help


----------



## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> Well I'll get a meter coming in the next day or two....I'm plugged into a masonry 8x8 from where it plugs in to the top is 25 ft.. It goes up through the house 9 ft in the attic 3 ft above the roof ... My glass stays clean and all... I do keep the damper tweaked open just a touch with a paper clip..... There is a number of things I can improve on next year one being having some soft wood around.... thanks for all your help


your welcome.


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## stihly dan

byron2 said:


> Well I'll get a meter coming in the next day or two....I'm plugged into a masonry 8x8 from where it plugs in to the top is 25 ft.. It goes up through the house 9 ft in the attic 3 ft above the roof ... My glass stays clean and all... I do keep the damper tweaked open just a touch with a paper clip..... There is a number of things I can improve on next year one being having some soft wood around.... thanks for all your help



You probably are NOT getting enough draft do to a chimney to large. Also you need to check draft with damper fully open and with it closed, then set at an average. If you have back draft damper then the flue draft would be the next thing.


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## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> I'm plugged into a masonry 8x8 from where it plugs in to the top is 25 ft


Very likely low draft. Your 8" x 8" chimney has a 64 sq in cross section, the recommended round 6" flue would be ~27 sq in, less than half, big difference...
And connecting the cold air return will help too


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## byron2

stihly dan said:


> You probably are NOT getting enough draft do to a chimney to large. Also you need to check draft with damper fully open and with it closed, then set at an average. If you have back draft damper then the flue draft would be the next thing.


 No baro and no back draft damper.... its stand alone not tied into my oil hot air.....I agree I'm probably not getting enough draft I'll update as soon as I get a meter and check it .....thankyou


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## byron2

brenndatomu said:


> Very likely low draft. Your 8" x 8" chimney has a 64 sq in cross section, the recommended round 6" flue would be ~27 sq in, less than half, big difference...
> And connecting the cold air return will help too


 I don't doubt what you are saying.... What gets me here is why would they design something that won't work in an 8x8 masonry flue ... I built houses for 30 years and never have seen a masonry chimney and or clay liner smaller than 8x8 ... Almost every house I had the mason put in 8x8 double flue.... put the oil in one side wood in the other ..... Again its my bad for not reading up on this stove but the company and or retailer could have done a far better job of disclosing the chimney specs.... I'm just venting ...lol... just seems backwoods to me..... My concern is that I put in a steel liner and still have the coaling problem ....My thinking is to burn coals you need to get air under them..... I'm just trying to get my head rapped around this thing .....I'll know more when I get the draft reading thanks for all your help B


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## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> I don't doubt what you are saying.... What gets me here is why would they design something that won't work in an 8x8 masonry flue ... I built houses for 30 years and never have seen a masonry chimney and or clay liner smaller than 8x8 ... Almost every house I had the mason put in 8x8 double flue.... put the oil in one side wood in the other ..... Again its my bad for not reading up on this stove but the company and or retailer could have done a far better job of disclosing the chimney specs.... I'm just venting ...lol... just seems backwoods to me..... My concern is that I put in a steel liner and still have the coaling problem ....My thinking is to burn coals you need to get air under them..... I'm just trying to get my head rapped around this thing .....I know more when I get the draft reading thanks for all your help B


These efficient designed furnaces run much cooler that is why they require smaller flues to maintain draft. SBI told me normal internal flue temps should run 250-500 degrees. Those temperatures would be hard to maintain with a 8" flue using this furnace.


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## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> What gets me here is why would they design something that won't work in an 8x8 masonry flue


90% or more of the wood burners made today call for a 6" chimney...


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## laynes69

For years, stove's and furnace's put a great deal of heat up the chimney. A 8x8, 8x12, etc. would stay plenty hot enough to maintain draft and help keep things functioning properly. As efficiency improved, stack loss decreased, therefore making it difficult for drafting and creating problems like condensation. Just about every unit whether a stove or furnace now specifies recommended flue sizes now in their manuals. That doesn't mean you have to, but if one chooses to burn in an oversized flue, performance will suffer.


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## byron2

Once again guys thanks for your help and wisdom ....I'm learning.. 25+ years using the old furnace the new stuff got way out in front of me .....I just ordered a draft meter and moisture meter which will give me a better idea where things stand .....But there is no doubt that when I get down to a big bed coals my stack temp is going way down ......So I have to mess with getting them burned down before my over night loading....I pull them forward open the damper and crack the door takes a bit but gets it done ...Once I know where the draft stands that may help me decide whether I line it or not ....The other thing about lining it is I'm not sure I can get a 6" with insulation down the flue ...Breaking out the clay liner would be a deal breaker for me... Thanks again guys much appreciated...


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## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> Once I know where the draft stands that my help me decide whether I line it or not


Might as well start liner shoppin now...
6" liner should fit...with 1/4" insulation if not with 1/2". Could always go with a 5.5" liner too, that'd be fine.


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## Mlaw22

Just throwing this out there. Just this year my brother and a close friend had there old chimneys lined. Had it done for free. Their insurance companies paid for it because they had a chimney guy come out and inspect it to find that some of the clay was cracked. Both insurance companies paid to have it lined no questions asked.


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## Wisneaky

Mlaw22 said:


> Just throwing this out there. Just this year my brother and a close friend had there old chimneys lined. Had it done for free. Their insurance companies paid for it because they had a chimney guy come out and inspect it to find that some of the clay was cracked. Both insurance companies paid to have it lined no questions asked.


Do you know what insurance company they had?


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## byron2

brenndatomu said:


> Might as well start liner shoppin now...
> 6" liner should fit...with 1/4" insulation if not with 1/2". Could always go with a 5.5" liner too, that'd be fine.


 Ha ! ....I know ... if I remember right the inside dimension is like 7x7... one stove shop told me I didn't need insulation if the clay liner is intact ...Given what I know now no way I don't insulate


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## Mlaw22

My brother went through a local company that used allied. He called the the insurance company with concerns about his chimney. "Possible chimney fire". They gave him the number of the adjuster. Then called a chimney guy. Looked it over found cracks made the assessment that it was unsafe and or had a chimney fire at one time. Company wrote the check to line it. Same for my friend. Guess it's cheaper than having to build them a new house.


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## flotek

As others mentioned All modern stoves use 6" pipe . They need the strong draft for when you shut the air down .


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## Aaron Frasher

Ok I have been reading the post on the Tundra and I am going to buy one this summer. I have been running a hotblast 1537g for about the last 8 years. ( for sale summer of 15). After reading the tundra thread I have figured out I might have to much draft. Ok this is how my hotblast is hooked up.6' inch pipe A 90 straight out of the back single wall black pipe up 3 ' with a manual damper half way into a double wall T out another 3' to another DW T then up 25'. About 4-5 feet out of the roof. Ok here are some temps as of right now it's 22 out side with a slight breeze.
Firebox front 410. 280 below the manual damper witch is open all the way. 255 2' above the MD in the attic last 6' of the stack it's hot. I can lay my hand on it but can't keep it on there. So what kinda of manometer do I need (cheap) and a barometric damper. Thanks for all the help. Can't belive it's taken my this long to figure this out.


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## NSMaple1

Manometer: Dwyer Mark II Model 25.

IMO anyone trying to get a furnace burning right without one is just grasping at straws &/or chasing their tail.


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## Wisneaky

I wanted to share something. I have one of the first couple hundred Tundra's made. A couple weeks back I was at Menards and noticed on the new Tundra's the damper door was redesigned. I emailed SBI and they sent me the new door. It comes with some sort of shiny metal insert and the new door. The new door is redesigned in a fashion that when it closes it stays open partially thus always letting in some air. Here are some pictures of the old and new.


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## byron2

Interesting Wisneaky I've been using a paper clip I've been thinking about drilling a hole and taping it for a bolt .. say midway just under the 3/4 hole they have in the damper door ..... Once I know what my chimney draft is I'll be able to tweak the damper door open to accommodate .......in the bottom picture it looks like the insert is holding it open a 1/4 inch or so ?


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## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> Interesting Wisneaky I've been using a paper clip I've been thinking about drilling a hole and taping it for a bolt .. say midway just under the 3/4 hole they have in the damper door ..... Once I know what my chimney draft is I'll be able to tweak the damper door open to accommodate .......in the bottom picture it looks like the insert is holding it open a 1/4 inch or so ?


yes its about that. I don't know if its the insert holding it or the notch they have cut into the new damper. My old damper looks much different.


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## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> yes its about that. I don't know if its the insert holding it or the notch they have cut into the new damper. My old damper looks much different.


 are you talking about the notch on the right where the rod connects ? I believe mine has the notch I did not get the little silver spacer ..... but I'm doing pretty much the same thing with the paper clip....I just slide it up or down on the left hand side I'm actually using a 4 penny galv finish nail bent around back on itself squeezed up enough so it has a little friction with the door edge...I'm getting better results with the coaling.....I'm tweaked open about 3/16.......... My line of thinking is this if your chimney is pulling .06 .... .06 has to be allowed in... and if it doesn't get in the draft pull would have to be affected... I'm thinking out load here and could be totally wrong..... by the way I purchased this furnace in july so maybe some mods had all ready been added......


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## Wisneaky

I


byron2 said:


> are you talking about the notch on the right where the rod connects ? I believe mine has the notch I did not get the little silver spacer ..... but I'm doing pretty much the same thing with the paper clip....I just slide it up or down on the left hand side I'm actually using a 4 penny galv finish nail bent around back on itself squeezed up enough so it has a little friction with the door edge...I'm getting better results with the coaling.....I'm tweaked open about 3/16.......... My line of thinking is this if your chimney is pulling .06 .... .06 has to be allowed in... and if it doesn't get in the draft pull would have to be affected... I'm thinking out load here and could be totally wrong..... buy the way I purchased this furnace in july so maybe the some mods had all ready been added......


That notch that cut out in this picture.


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## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> IView attachment 405295
> 
> That notch that cut out in this picture.


 yeah mine has that I think that clip is what's holding the door open at least I think so


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## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> yeah mine has that


This is my original one.


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## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> View attachment 405296
> 
> This is my original one.


 yeah mines like the new one you got less the clip , which could have fallen off I suppose ..... Its seems to me they are fixing some of the problems and not letting us know......Also the fan snap up on the top of the stove works far better for me also


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## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> Its seems to me they are fixing some of the problems and not letting us know......Also the fan snap up on the top of the stove works far better for me also


That's one thing they should do is let us know. Once we register it they should contact us with any updates and send us the parts. They have some communication issues. I got snotty with them when the baffle broke last because I was emailing them and three different people were answering the emails and each time there was a reply they wanted the serial number and copy of my receipt again. I told them they need to keep better track of the registered serial numbers and emails and that I wasn't going to supply them my receipt again because I did it twice in the previous emails. It's a pain in the butt to have to go to Menards website and find the right order, print off the receipt and scan it back in.


----------



## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> That's one thing they should do is let us know. Once we register it they should contact us with any updates and send us the parts. They have some communication issues. I got snotty with them when the baffle broke last because I was emailing them and three different people were answering the emails and each time there was a reply they wanted the serial number and copy of my receipt again. I told them they need to keep better track of the registered serial numbers and emails and that I wasn't going to supply them my receipt again because I did it twice in the previous emails. It's a pain in the butt to have to go to Menards website and find the right order, print off the receipt and scan it back in.


 yeah that's my thinking also..... My hope is to get the bugs worked out before this winter is over I'll know more when I get my draft meter and see where the chimney is at.....Good info Wisneaky.. I'd say keep an eye on the clip that its not giving to much draft...... jmho they should have had a way to adjust the damper from the get go....thanks man


----------



## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> yeah that's my thinking also..... My hope is to get the bugs worked out before this winter is over I'll know more when I get my draft meter and see where the chimney is at.....Good info Wisneaky.. I'd say keep an eye on the clip that its not giving to much draft...... jmho they should have had a way to adjust the damper from the get go....thanks man


Your welcome. I checked my draft after installing it and backed the baro down some to compensate.


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## Tomc460

So what's the pushrod adjustment that was talked about in an earlier post? I have a Heatmax & it's been working great but latey my damper door seems to get hung up sometimes & not fully close. Anybody else have this happening to them?


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## trx250r87

Tomc460 said:


> So what's the pushrod adjustment that was talked about in an earlier post? I have a Heatmax & it's been working great but latey my damper door seems to get hung up sometimes & not fully close. Anybody else have this happening to them?


Yes mine hangs up occasionally but I have also adjusted the rod a little because it was making a lot of noise while the damper opened. I can't seem to find a happy medium. 

Eric


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## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> Its seems to me they are fixing some of the problems and not letting us know


The automotive companys do the same thing, if there is an update for a problem, they will not let you know unless it is an actual recall, unfortunately that's just SOP with most companys now. Most of the time you have to actually call the company and/or take the vehicle (or whatever) to the dealer and complain to get the update


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## Tomc460

trx250r87 said:


> Yes mine hangs up occasionally but I have also adjusted the rod a little because it was making a lot of noise while the damper opened. I can't seem to find a happy medium.
> 
> Eric



What did you do to adjust it? I thought about putting the rod in a different hole, but there's really only 1 that it can go in.


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## trx250r87

Tomc460 said:


> What did you do to adjust it? I thought about putting the rod in a different hole, but there's really only 1 that it can go in.



I just removed the front black cover and bent the rod a little.

Eric


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## flotek

In front under the cover box Where the hook arm attaches around the flap I took a Dremel and smoothed that V cut and radius around the edges . So edges are smooth and polished so it pulls smooth ly and doesn't get hung up then I added a pea size amount of hi temp grease on the V cut out on the arm . Now mine never gets hung up or stuck . Always silky and pulls up flap reliably with no struggle or hang ups


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## Tomc460

flotek said:


> In front under the cover box Where the hook arm attaches around the flap I took a Dremel and smoothed that V cut and radius around the edges . So edges are smooth and polished so it pulls smooth ly and doesn't get hung up then I added a pea size amount of hi temp grease on the V cut out on the arm . Now mine never gets hung up or stuck . Always silky and pulls up flap reliably with no struggle or hang ups




I'm going to try this. Thanks for your replies!


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## aokpops

The big test is looking like next year . Running a 26 26 shelter .The only problem is pipe plugin . 2 things I don't.do clean a chimney every month our drain a air compressor daily . Will prove what needs done.


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## aokpops

I just walk up a snow covered roof to get the cap off an clean the pipe . I never had this trouble with a 8 inch pipe


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## flotek

If you have a 60$ sooteater kit you never have to go up on a dangerous roof . You can clean from the ground up


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## djkost

I had trouble with my door, they sent me a new one with à silver insert that must keep it open à bit cause when it shuts. The fire burns more then before. Mine is working good.


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## laynes69

aokpops said:


> I just walk up a snow covered roof to get the cap off an clean the pipe . I never had this trouble with a 8 inch pipe



It's the nature of the beast. If your pipe is plugging, then burn hotter fires. An 8" chimney can plug just as fast. With our furnace, we have a 5.5" chimney and it stays very clean.


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## Wisneaky

I have a steel roof. I couldn't walk on mine in the winter because I would slide off and either be severely injured or worse. Snow and ice don't even stick to it for long. After using the sooteater I'd never use anything else to clean it because it is so simple.


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## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> I had trouble with my door, they sent me a new one with à silver insert that must keep it open à bit cause when it shuts. The fire burns more then before. Mine is working good.


It has only been a day since I have had mine installed, but so far it seems like it is burning much better. I was curious so I emailed SBI and asked if the new door is supposed to stay open a crack or if I just got a faulty door. Ill report back when I receive a reply. Im going to keep track of how it burns the next few days also to see if they new door makes any difference.


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## djkost

This is how mine burns with the new damper door.


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## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> This is how mine burns with the new damper door.View attachment 406203


 That is how mine has been burning. Honestly it's burning almost too good. It was below zero here last night and it was 76 in my house. Thermostat isn't really regulating it because it is now throwing so much heat.


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## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> That is how mine has been burning. Honestly it's burning almost too good. It was below zero here last night and it was 76 in my house. Thermostat isn't really regulating it because it is now throwing so much heat.


Does it seem to have affected burn time?


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## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Does it seem to have affected burn time?


Actually no. I've been tracking reload time, heat time, outside temp, and inside temp on a spread sheet and I will post it here in a few days. But so far I'm getting right around 8 hours with out the temp dropping below 70 in my house.


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## djkost

It seems to be burning gases a lot longer now. Before it seemed to choke down so tight then wasn't much of a flame, now the flames are more 
Lively so to speak. It keeps the chamber hot so when the thermostat turns on it doesn't take long for the blower to start which brings the temps
Up and it shuts the damper door. Only time the stack temps go above 225 are when the damper door is open but that is for a short time. I run 2 temp gauges, one the sticks onto the outside of the pipe and a internal probe. So mine seemed to improve with the new damper door.


----------



## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> It seems to be burning gases a lot longer now. Before it seemed to choke down so tight then wasn't much of a flame, now the flames are more
> Lively so to speak. It keeps the chamber hot so when the thermostat turns on it doesn't take long for the blower to start which brings the temps
> Up and it shuts the damper door. Only time the stack temps go above 225 are when the damper door is open but that is for a short time. I run 2 temp gauges, one the sticks onto the outside of the pipe and a internal probe. So mine seemed to improve with the new damper door.


Hey can you measure how far your damper door stays open? This is how far mine is.


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## djkost

Mine is between 1/16 and 1/8 inch, with the gap you have it must burn pretty hard.


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## Wisneaky

djkost said:


> Mine is between 1/16 and 1/8 inch, with the gap you have it must burn pretty hard.


That's the way it was. I sent an email to SBI asking them if it was supposed to be that big of gap.


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## djkost

When I put the silver metal on my stove I hade to real push on it to get it tight. The tabs that hold it on have to be bent tight. I think I used a needle nose pliers to get mine tight. My fingers were not strong enough to pull it tight. Hope this helps.


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## flotek

The flap gap is adjustable by simply bending the arm a bit to your liking . Mine seats flat when closed. You got a central air inlet right on the flap so it's never truly closed down


----------



## byron2

flotek said:


> The flap gap is adjustable by simply bending the arm a bit to your liking . Mine seats flat when closed. You got a central air inlet right on the flap so it's never truly closed down


 Well I guess the question is where is it suppose to be....they are making changes to the stove and giving no info as to why .....I 'm assuming they built this stove to work as is out of the box assuming owners meet the set up spec's ..... The more I learn about these things the more I dislike ....no control over the secondary burn at all seems dangerous to me if the blower motor quits the thing is going to get super hot .....now I know where the inlets are and if I were here and not sleeping I can block them off and shut down the air feeding the tubes .... I'm just venting here Flotek but if they are making changes because of flaws they should be informing us due to the potential safety issues involved.....
I'm just thinking out loud with my comment ...as for me putting a Baro on a wood stove goes against my grain for a few reasons but I will be adding one to at least have control over the draft ...


----------



## Wisneaky

byron2 said:


> Well I guess the question is where is it suppose to be....they are making changes to the stove and giving no info as to why .....I 'm assuming they built this stove to work as is out of the box assuming owners meet the set up spec's ..... The more I learn about these things the more I dislike ....no control over the secondary burn at all seems dangerous to me if the blower motor quits the thing is going to get super hot .....now I know where the inlets are and if I were here and not sleeping I can block them off and shut down the air feeding the tubes .... I'm just venting here Flotek but if they are making changes because of flaws they should be informing us due to the potential safety issues involved.....


I emailed SBI regarding the damper door and from the sounds of the email they aren't even sure. First they said it should be shut all the way and than they go on to say that the door design may be different. I'm just going to leave it where it is. I also made a comment to them that they should come here to the forums and read some of the comments and their reply was that I should refer people to email them at [email protected]


----------



## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> I emailed SBI regarding the damper door and from the sounds of the email they aren't even sure. First they said it should be shut all the way and than they go on to say that the door design may be different. I'm just going to leave it where it is. I also made a comment to them that they should come here to the forums and read some of the comments and their reply was that I should refer people to email them at [email protected]


 Thanks man my next move is the baro picking it up today


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## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> no control over the secondary burn at all seems dangerous to me


Why? 98% of the wood stoves made today have none, and no blower to cool it either


byron2 said:


> as for me putting a Baro on a wood stove goes against my grain for a few reasons but I will be adding one to at least have control over the draft ...


Most of your better wood furnaces recommend, or even come with 'em. Gotta control the draft some way, either a baro or a key damper. If draft is controlled and the high limit switch is working, the furnace should never overheat...power or not (well, unless the duct system is poorly designed (no gravity heating)


----------



## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Why? 98% of the wood stoves made today have none, and no blower to cool either
> 
> Most of your better wood furnaces recommend 'em. Gotta control the draft some way, either a baro or a key damper. If draft is controlled and the high limit switch is working, the furnace should never overheat...power or not (well, unless the duct system is poorly designed (no gravity heating)


Unless you have the recommended backdraft dampers installed than it will more than likely overheat. I've thought about this numerous times. I'd like to pull then out, but don't want my LP furnace blowing into it if it turns on.


----------



## flotek

Why would you need adjustable secondary air ? If it needs more heat the flap opens and closes to regulate the air and that's all the adjustment you need . No sense in over complicating a simple process ..as far as being able to shut it down if it gets too hot or power goes out -it already does all that by closing the air flap down in either case . For 1699 I don't think you'd find anything on the market comparable with these features . Yeah there's some refinement details that could be better but you are not going to get a corvette on a cavalier budget. You could barely buy a hotblast aka woodblaster heap of junk -for the tundra price


----------



## brenndatomu

Wisneaky said:


> Unless you have the recommended backdraft dampers installed than it will more than likely overheat. I've thought about this numerous times. I'd like to pull then out, but don't want my LP furnace blowing into it if it turns on.


 Two options here...a power closed/spring open damper, or a fusible link style heat dump door like Yukon sells, http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACEACCESSORIES/SAFETYHEATDUMP/tabid/200/Default.aspx 
hafta have a plenum to put that in though.


flotek said:


> For 1699 I don't think you'd find anything on the market comparable with these features .


Still on sale for $1399 at Menards...as of right now anyways


----------



## byron2

brenndatomu said:


> Two options here...a power closed/spring open damper, or a fusible link style heat dump door like Yukon sells, http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACEACCESSORIES/SAFETYHEATDUMP/tabid/200/Default.aspx
> hafta have a plenum to put that in though.
> 
> Still on sale for $1399 at Menards...as of right now anyways


 why couldn't that heat dump be put right on the side of the stove ?


----------



## byron2

brenndatomu said:


> Why? 98% of the wood stoves made today have none, and no blower to cool it either
> 
> Most of your better wood furnaces recommend, or even come with 'em. Gotta control the draft some way, either a baro or a key damper. If draft is controlled and the high limit switch is working, the furnace should never overheat...power or not (well, unless the duct system is poorly designed (no gravity heating)


 I guess I just find it odd that you can't cut the air off a snuff the thing out if something were wrong


----------



## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> why couldn't that heat dump be put right on the side of the stove ?


It needs to be above the heat exchanger...


----------



## byron2

brenndatomu said:


> It needs to be above the heat exchanger...


 I should have known that ...haha......thanks


----------



## byron2

Hi everybody just an update I installed a baro and I am seeing much better performance...... 250/275 stack temp toward end of a cycle is much better than I had before...less coal ...had a 10 hour burn last night the house was 70 when I loaded this morning with the outside temp around 14......My reading bounces around a little say between 06 to 09 never really holding on one more than a few seconds....not sure if that would be normal or perhaps due to the 8x8 masonry chimney .... At any rate things are much better....thanks for all your help everybody


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## stihly dan

No way!! Are you telling us you installed it according to the directions and it works better! Absolutely amazing. Just imagine how much betterer it could still be if you installed the rest of the system according to the directions.


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## bpwelding2005

hi guys, went threw this entire post from front to back and gota say tons of useful info and a awesome site. im pretty sure i remember another member of the site havein the same problem with his tundra but checking if anyone else has. there were a few of us that put in new tundras this summer and i know of at least 3 of them that are all failing in the same way. theres cracks forming in the front of the stove around the heat exchanger clean out door and the main loading door(glass door) sorry for the bad pics its tough to get decent pics of the cracks. all i can say is gentlemen please look over your tundras or heatmaxs very closely. 




heat ex door bottom right



heat ex door bottom left



main door bottom right (glass door)



main door bottom right


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## bpwelding2005

here is a shall we call it over view picture to help the close up pics make more sence


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## jb6l6gc

hmmm think I'll watch this forum a little more before I run out and make the plunge to replace my hotblast. As inefficient as it is, it doesnt show any signs of failure or cracking any where except for those chit blowers which I've taken care of! I wish we had a menards in Canada though. Funny thing is it's made in Canada and I can get it cheaper in the states WTH!


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## Mlaw22

Mine had cracks at every corner of the firebox door. This was last year after first season of use. Took pics and they sent me a new unit. Wasn't all that pleased cause it's a pain my arse to go up and down my stairs. Still have the old one. Thought about selling it and seeing if someone wanted to weld it. But didn't feel comfortable with that. So it sits in my shop. No sign of cracks on the new one yet.


----------



## flotek

After a close inspection last night ,to my surprise I see mine is starting to get a crack in each upper corner of the door . I contacted sbi today and waiting in response .. What a shame after I endorsed this product to others ..I was willing to overlook the ash drawer but this is getting ridiculous . I believe the next furnace will be a max caddy . Now I must admit I'm not sure even at a cheap price that the tundra is a good option


----------



## Wisneaky

This is the response I've received so far.

In order to have a thorough case file, we will require some additional information. A copy of the proof of purchase. The dimensions of your residence, a description of your chimney (length and diameter) and the ducting. We will also require photos of the cracks and the environment surrounding the furnace including the duct work.


----------



## Oldman47

Sounds like fishing for a reason to blame it all on you. Send them pictures of the furnace, that is the thing you want taken care of. The layout of your house has zero bearing on how it performs in terms of cracks. On the other hand the house layout might well affect how well it heats, which is an entirely different concern.


----------



## Wisneaky

Oldman47 said:


> Sounds like fishing for a reason to blame it all on you. Send them pictures of the furnace, that is the thing you want taken care of. The layout of your house has zero bearing on how it performs in terms of cracks. On the other hand the house layout might well affect how well it heats, which is an entirely different concern.


I agree. I'm sure they need to investigate. I just sent them what they asked for. I'll post again when I hear more.


----------



## zogger

Mlaw22 said:


> Mine had cracks at every corner of the firebox door. This was last year after first season of use. Took pics and they sent me a new unit. Wasn't all that pleased cause it's a pain my arse to go up and down my stairs. Still have the old one. Thought about selling it and seeing if someone wanted to weld it. But didn't feel comfortable with that. So it sits in my shop. No sign of cracks on the new one yet.



Wonder why they didn't provide just a new door, instead of a whole new furnace?


----------



## Wisneaky

zogger said:


> Wonder why they didn't provide just a new door, instead of a whole new furnace?


The cracks are actually in the Firebox frame and not the door.


----------



## Wisneaky

I honestly don't even want to think about having to install a new one. Just trying to get that thing in my basement was one of the worst things I've ever had to do. Heavier than hell even with 3 people and a dolly I still managed to break my basement stairs because of the weight and I had to spend another whole day building new basement stairs.


----------



## zogger

Wisneaky said:


> I honestly don't even want to think about having to install a new one. Just trying to get that thing in my basement was one of the worst things I've ever had to do. Heavier than hell even with 3 people and a dolly I still managed to break my basement stairs because of the weight and I had to spend another whole day building new basement stairs.



Well, that sucks...maybe just get it welded up and reinforced where it sits?

I got a wicked deal on a zero cool side by side once, a freeking monster..took four of us to get it in. When I moved it stayed there....


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## bpwelding2005

im staill waiting to hear back from the dealer that sold and installed our furnaces but i did provide him with pics of the cracks and the serial # so now its just a waiting game. ill post what i hear back as soon as i hear more also.


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## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> I honestly don't even want to think about having to install a new one. Just trying to get that thing in my basement was one of the worst things I've ever had to do. Heavier than hell even with 3 people and a dolly I still managed to break my basement stairs because of the weight and I had to spend another whole day building new basement stairs.


 That sucks I have a daylight but it still was a ***** to get in there.....I don't have any cracks as of yet but I'm losing confidence in this thing.....If I have to I'll reinstall my old furnace it really wasn't all that bad..... I like the efficiency of theses epa stoves but they have to be durable..... I missed something in this thread about the ash draw not sure if I have one of the problem stoves or not.......But all these things are pushing me hard to bail on this rig....


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## byron2

flotek said:


> After a close inspection last night ,to my surprise I see mine is starting to get a crack in each upper corner of the door . I contacted sbi today and waiting in response .. What a shame after I endorsed this product to others ..I was willing to overlook the ash drawer but this is getting ridiculous . I believe the next furnace will be a max caddy . Now I must admit I'm not sure even at a cheap price that the tundra is a good option


 you had no way of knowing this things were going to be cracking.....I blame myself for not researching more ..I really didn't even know the epa had put all these restrictions in place ..... oh well


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## Mlaw22

When it happened to mine I played homeowner stupid. They never asked about my setup just wanted pics. I also brought up the ash pan problem. They just send a new one no questions. I kinda just wanted my money back due to the high annoyance and anger that was flowing through my body but I took what I could get. When I got the second one I had issues with the snap disc on top closing the damper door to early cause the fan limit was on the back and they weren't working together. After several emails I think they have given up on me. The new unit has some beefier welds in all the corners and it seems to be holding up fine.


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## Wisneaky

I got a reply back from SBI. These crazy @ss people want me to return the furnace to Menards and they will ship a replacement there for me. I'm not pulling it out. They can send someone to my house to replace it.


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## byron2

Wisneaky said:


> I got a reply back from SBI. These crazy @ss people want me to return the furnace to Menards and they will ship a replacement there for me. I'm not pulling it out. They can send someone to my house to replace it.


 Jesus I looked at mine real close late last night I have a crack bottom right corner of the loading door... Its goes through the weld and into the face steel about 1/2 inch ....They are probably going to screw me because I have it plugged into the 8x8 masonry chimney and the fact that I installed it myself...Warranty conditions say an authorized qualified technician must perform the installation.....


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## bpwelding2005

cant figure out why they would market this furnace to big box stores for the do it your selfer but then require professional instal for the warranty to be valid.


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## byron2

bpwelding2005 said:


> cant figure out why they would market this furnace to big box stores for the do it your selfer but then require professional instal for the warranty to be valid.


 Not sure but its a way out for them also its a limited lifetime with a one time replacement limit...they can just give you another one and all bets are off after that ....not saying that's what they are going to do but that's how it reads to me ....Any way I called the store where I got mine and started the wheels in motion the good news is they only sold two and he remembers me ...

when I brought mine at Paris Farm the display stove was on the crate the manual was packed in side ....I should have made them open it up but I trusted what the guy told me ....


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## byron2

Hi guys I've been following the tread over at Hearth......A couple of things that come to mind ..#1 the way they made the door opening it looks like they punched and then bent the flanges out and welded the corners....It may well have been better to weld an angle iron there to make up the flange...

#2 Those with caddy's aren't seeing any cracks my thinking there is that from what I have read is the front of the caddy is enclosed and part of the heat exchange to the hot air plenum ...The blower would be keeping it cooler no ?

The other thing is what is to hot on the front ? The manual recommends keeping an eye on how hot things are getting but say nothing about what's to hot...Also my heatmax has a high limit cutoff... I don't remember the limit its either 160 or 200 it shut the damper down ... I've been using my stove just to hold the house at 70 I have a thermostat set up on it ...If the house is more than a couple of degrees below 70 I've been turning the oil on to bring the house up while I get the Heatmax loaded and warmed up .....Now I don't know what happens in the middle of a real cold night I suppose it could over fire if the thermostat is calling but shouldn't the cut off take care of that .?


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## JRHAWK9

Does the Tundra/Caddy have any ceramic lining on the inside to help protect the inside of the firebox?


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## brenndatomu

Firebrick lined, but bare metal at the front where the cracks are


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## JRHAWK9

lining the front face with some decent thickness ceramic insulation may help, if there's even room for it.


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## KARB2014

I'm just thinking out loud here but do you think it could possible have something to do with the fact that the caddy was engineered with a plenum. I know on my tundra the high limit switch is located in between the two side by side 8" outlets. When I measure with my infared thermometer with the damper open the top towards the front of the unit gets over 200 degs while in the middle where I have the two outlets connected its only ever gotten to 165 max. So my theory is all the air movement is in the back up to the middle and the front of the unit just gets heat soaked? I used the two side by side in the middle outlets because that is what drolet recomended in the manual. What I did on my unit was I moved the high limit from the middle of the top to the cover for the front outlet. The reason being is my house with the old windows has a huge heat demand. When the thermostat calls for heat the damper will be open for 30-40 mins at a time. I would notice the high limit was never reached because in the factory location it was getting all the air flow. I'm just think with a plenum the temp would be more even through out the fire box and possibly the damper would not have to be open as much easing the heat load? Plus on the caddy doesn't it sense the actual air temp in the plenum? With the tundra the snap disc measure the metal enclousure which would take a lot more time to get up to temp compared to just measuring the air temp.


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## Tomc460

I've been periodically checking his thread to see what people have to say about this new furnace. I bought a Heatmax last fall so this was my 1st winter with it. I really like the way it performs! My only complaints/concerns were that my damper door sometimes doesn't close all the way, staying open about 1/4" or so, & something in the door rattles when the blower is on, but the damper door is shut. These WERE my only issues until I clicked on this thread last night & started reading about CRACKS!?!?! So, I head down to the basement last night to inspect mine & my Heatmax is just like some of yours out there. Definitely disappointing!! So what should I do? Also, what the ash door problems? I've seen mention of it but no definite answer. Thanks


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## brenndatomu

Tomc460 said:


> So what should I do? Also, what the ash door problems? I've seen mention of it but no definite answer. Thanks


Call or email SBI, they have been taking care of people on this. At least as long as your install is not too squirrely anyways. FYI, they will want pics of your setup and any/all cracks. 
I wonder if this damper linkage hanging up thing could have something to do with these cracks (overheating)...that would explain why the Tundras are cracking and Caddys are not...different linkage


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## flotek

They will refund or offer to replace . They will want lots of info and pictures concerning this but don't be intimidated it's for records to file a claim . They r refunding me full cost on mine . My install was not a pro job .


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## byron2

well we my story I'm plugged into a 8x8 which measures just under 7x7 inside I didn't hide that fact I did it I'll own it ... I don't think that's why I got crack but I'll see what they'll do ...sent out pic and all today .......I'm no pro either but I thought it looked ok couple pics ..Idk maybe the old beast setting beside it got mad and kicked the droplet


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## byron2

this other fellow said this on the hearth site..... Laynes 69 quote: I honestly believe the lack of cracking on the Caddy is due to the false front, and the open plenum. I'm sure there's also a lag between a snapdisc and a limit control probe I hope Laynes 69 doesn't mind ...I agree 100 % that and I think with a thermostat setup there also a problem with long open damper times if the house gets behind....I in most cases I bring the house back with the oil which I have set at 70 .....Its good to hear they are taking care of everybody


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## newyorker

seen this thread and went and checked my caddy which is less then a year old and no cracking


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## flotek

I received a full refund for my drolet furnace .i have no complaints with sbi they have done me right and still allowed me to keep the unit as long as I removed the rear plate and mailed it to them. I ponied up and just bought a Max Caddy to replace it on Saturday . I will have install pics with a full review once it's installed and setup


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## byron2

SBI offered me full store credit or a new heatmax delivered to Paris Farmers Union " I chose store credit" , PFU in turn offered me the store credit or my money back..... I wasn't sure they would cover my stove because as you all know I had it set up in a masonry 8x8 flue liner.... But even after telling them all that they still went good for it ... You can't beat that in my case they went above and beyond.....
They also let me keep the unit less the tags which I have to take back to PFU.... PFU and SBI both have been excellent with the way they have handled this with me....
I have decided to try a different furnace that PFU sells called Fire Chief pick it up this weekend........Again thanks everybody for your help and advice


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## brenndatomu

byron2 said:


> I have decided to try a different furnace that PFU sells called Fire Chief pick it up this weekend.......



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/shelter-sf2631-wood-coal-furnace.277767/ Shelter...same as (and made by) Firechief furnace


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## brenndatomu

bpwelding2005 said:


> im staill waiting to hear back from the dealer that sold and installed our furnaces but i did provide him with pics of the cracks and the serial # so now its just a waiting game. ill post what i hear back as soon as i hear more also.


Any updates? You gonna attempt to weld? (assume by the user name you are a welder)


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## bpwelding2005

heard back my dealer on Monday that they wanted more picks of the duct work and chimney setup and chimney height so now waiting to hear back, dealer has been busy lately and im in no rush just yet so letting him take care of things at his own pace. Also i was a welder in mid 2000's when i made my e-mail account and just used it for a easy to remember id on here lol, but i worked 5years in a sheet metal fab shop and a year at a structural fab shop so i learned alot of useful skills for metal working.


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## 82mkiiltype

Anyone still watching this thread?

I've had some cracking issues and I'm going to have to go down the warranty route. No surprise as mine was a fairly early serial number. I was just wondering if any new issues have been uncovered lately? Has everyone jumped ship and paid double for something else? Replacing the unit is an inconvenience, but I'm still very happy with the performance of the unit and if SBI just ships me a new furnace, I really can't complain about that level of service or warranty coverage.

Any fresh information on the subject?


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## flotek

I ended up cashing out on a refund option and getting a max caddy . I sold my old unit and once fixed/ welded up should still offer years of reliable service . I see no reason why the new ones that have had the issues addressed wouldn't be a good reliable unit to own and worth the money


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## brenndatomu

82mkiiltype said:


> Any fresh information on the subject?


I am hearing rumblings that the "new improved" Tundra will be out this fall. Supposedly they redesigned the problem areas and the heat exchanger is separate from the firebox instead of being welded to the same plate of steel at the front. This is coming from a fellow member on another forum that is going (went) through the warranty process. Also supposed to be a larger "Tundra style" (like a cheaper version of the Max Caddy) available soon too. Here is a direct quote from an SBI email supposedly..."The new production of this unit has taken into consideration the faults that were present in the current model. Refractory bricks have been added to the front of the firebox. The heat exchangers and firebox are now independent from each other eliminating the potential stress from expansion which caused the initial cracks that you experienced."

Here is something that I posted on that other forum a couple months ago, what I am doing (did)...

OK, I finally have a free moment to update y'all on my recent Tundra mods as mentioned in my previous post. I decided to install this "failed" Tundra that I recently acquired, (thanks D! ) as an "add-on" to my Yukon. Yukon is working on a "EPA" firebox to meet the new EPA regs and I figure the Tundra will buy me some time to figure out what is gonna replace my current Yook down the road. (The Yukon works great now since I have modded the firebox for a proper secondary burn, but it is also now a bit too finicky for my wife to run. I am on call all the time for work and I need something the wife can run without any problems, hence a future Yukon upgrade or replacement is likely to happen)
Anyways, this Tundra is a first year model. The cracks are only two, each about 1/2" long, at the top corners of the loading door. I was gonna drill/weld the cracks, then install the new heat shields, but then I thought, hey, it's already cracked, I'm gonna leave the cracks alone, see if shielding this area will actually stop the cracks where they are. If so, then it should also stop them from happening in the first place. I also did this same mod on my sisters new Tundra before it was fired the first time. I also have temp controllers to install on 'em both too, just hasn't happened yet.
I was gonna insulate using firebrick but couldn't figure out how to keep them in place. After doing what I did, I realize that the bricks could be installed the same way I did the SS, just hafta cut 1" or so off of the front of the bricks on the sides to tuck the new bricks in the "slot".

I went to a local fab shop where I buy metal sometimes looking for some "scrap" SS, or a cutoff/drop. I should have asked what it was gonna cost because after they sheared a piece off, the total at checkout surprised me a bit. $55 for a 3" x 6' piece of 1/4" 316 SS (enough to do two sets of shields) 304 would have been fine, but I guess the 316 is what they had laying around. 316 is actually a lil better for high temp applications, but either would've worked.

I removed the factory heat shield that is on back of the "air intake" box. To remove it is just two bolts, one straight up, in the middle above the loading door, and one on the back side, again in the middle. The shield will drop right out once unbolted. Here's a pic of it out.
Back side...
Front... 


Then I removed the front firebricks. Unbeknownst to me, there is 1/8" thick ceramic insulation blanket behind the bricks. Mine had creosote flakes piled up behind them, I guess from above the baffle. Anyways, I removed the rest of the firebricks so I could clean out behind the blanket, but it was stuck fast in some spots and quickly disintegrated when I tried to work it loose. I bought a replacement blanket(s) from a guy on fleabay (2 pieces 18" tall x 24" long needed)
Once the new blanket was in place, this is what I had... 
sorry bout the pic quality, turns out that taking good pics of the backside of the front of your firebox is a bit challenging! ;lol You are looking at the backside of what is at the right side of the door when you are facing the furnace.

I cut the SS to fit around the air intake box and a slot to fit over the firebrick retainer tab.
These pieces are 18" tall x 3" wide... 
Then I cut some 1/2" thick x 3" wide ceramic insulation that I just happened to have layin around, to match the size/shape of the SS. It goes between the firebox wall and the SS...
...like this...


I re-installed the firebrick, which BTW I had to trim up just a bit to get the extra clearance needed. The parts break down pics show the top rear brick (sides) being notched out to clear the tabs that hold the back of the secondary air tubes to the firebox wall, mine weren't notched, so I notched them 1/4" or so. Many off the bricks also had a bit of "flashing" on the sides left from where they were cast, this had to be cleaned off all the bricks to get things to fit also. Once that was done everything fit like a glove
Here it is assembled, left side of firebox... 
right side... 


Here is final assembly, notice the factory air intake box shield is back in place and covers the edge of the SS (very top of the pic) 

BTW, it is easier to take these pics using a mirror, like in this last pic


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## 82mkiiltype

I see what you did there... that should keep that front edge much cooler. Thanks for the idea and detailed write-up. Not sure what the future of my existing Heat Max is ... might make a good outdoor hot tub heater???

I can confirm that SBI/ Drolet IS working on a larger furnace (A.K.A. Max Caddy Copy) for late this fall. Maybe I'm a sucker for punishment but I may wait for the larger model and be an earlier adopter. 

I live in a 2 story house with walk out basement and the Heat Max was perfect for maintaining temperature for about 4-6 hours and then the propane would help out in the last 2 hours every night. At least in the last two brutally cold winters we had in Ontario ... It was also a bit slow to re-heat the house if it dropped a few degrees. Don't get me wrong, that's still awesome, but few more BTU's would be a suit the structure just a bit better.

Feel free to quote this post and say "I told you so" in two years when I have problems with the brand new model.


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## brenndatomu

82mkiiltype said:


> Feel free to quote this post and say "I told you so" in two years when I have problems with the brand new model.


Nah, they've learned some lessons that I would bet are incorporated into the new model(s), probably good to go now.
If you are nervous about being a guinea pig then just patch up your HM until they get a couple years in on the new ones...


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## djkost

I dont have any cracks in my tundra and never really had a problem with it but Im really interested in the new furnace dorlett is making according to whats posted on this site. Anyone have more information on the caddy versión they are going to be selljng like the price and when availible?


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## flotek

Being that I own a. MAX caddy I can a test to there quality and how they are built tough everything is beefed up for this unit .it is a somewhat complex unit very heavy duty with a lot of electronics and I'm not seeing how it could be remade " cheap" My hope is that drolet really does their homework and looks this furnace over if they plan to copy it ,if they want it to be a success they better not skimp ( no shortcuts) on quality or they could have another warranty/ replacement nightmare like the heat max / tundra units .


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## brenndatomu

Just noticed that the long rumored Drolet Heatpro (larger version of the Tundra, Max Caddy size) is now listed on their site http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/furnaces/extra-large


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## Wisneaky

brenndatomu said:


> Just noticed that the long rumored Drolet Heatpro (larger version of the Tundra, Max Caddy size) is now listed on their site http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/furnaces/extra-large


Someone should tell SBI right away that it is going to probably have the same cracking issues because they didn't put firebrick in the front again.


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## KARB2014

Can anybody figure out why they have a circuit board? To me that seems really of engineered when a simple honeywell control would work or even the simple snap discs like the Tundra.


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## Wisneaky

KARB2014 said:


> Can anybody figure out why they have a circuit board? To me that seems really of engineered when a simple honeywell control would work or even the simple snap discs like the Tundra.


I believe it controls blower speed based on plenum temperature. Same as the circuit board in the Max caddy.


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## KARB2014

I would have to agree but good luck finding anything in the manual or their website about that. Also has anybody looked at the manual? Wow did they piece that together. Good news I just got an email from SBI saying they are going to ship my updated fire brick kit October 26.


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## 82mkiiltype

Well I pulled the trigger on a HeatPro this morning. I'll be taking a very close look at the firebox and I hope I like what I see. If there isn't a new thread about the Heat Pro when I get mine delivered ... I'll make one.


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## Highbeam

82mkiiltype said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on a HeatPro this morning. I'll be taking a very close look at the firebox and I hope I like what I see. If there isn't a new thread about the Heat Pro when I get mine delivered ... I'll make one.



How much?


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## 82mkiiltype

$2999 CND shipped to my door. With the exchange rate you US guys should make out very nicely.


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## flotek

Wow ..I bought a max caddy this February new at 3700 I hope the heatpro is similar in quality


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## 82mkiiltype

Well $3700US = $4800 CDN right now. That's 63% of the cost of a Max Caddy.
I tried calling a couple local Caddy dealers for pricing and everyone I talked to wanted to do a full install and were dropping numbers in the $8000 -$10000 range.
Besides, the warranty only covers replacement of existing model, or updated model where I pay the difference. Store credit, at a store, that only sells Drolet brand furnaces doesn't leave me the option to switch brands, unless I try to sell my new furnace privately, likely at a loss. 

I still can't complain. Drolet is sending me a complete new furnace, under warranty AND giving me the option to upgrade by paying the difference. That's still awesome customer service.


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## djkost

I was told itmcost 2600 US. I'm going to order one also,


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## 82mkiiltype

Well, the new Heatpro is in my basement. Ummm, it's big. I'll try to take a few pics over the next day or two. Any specific areas of interest?


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## 3fordasho

82mkiiltype said:


> Well, the new Heatpro is in my basement. Ummm, it's big. I'll try to take a few pics over the next day or two. Any specific areas of interest?



Firebox around the door, from the inside. Curious how they addressed the cracking issue that occurred on the Heatmax/Tundra.


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## 82mkiiltype

Link to new thread for Heatpro pictures and discussion.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/drolet-heatpro.287922/


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## brenndatomu

It seems that some of the older Tundra/Heatmaxes have larger intake holes than the later ones and SBI will send a "restrictor plate" to clip on the intake to throttle 'er down. (it comes with the brick update kit that they are sending out right now) Since my furnace is a "rescue" I won't be getting a kit and need to make my own parts. I was just thinking this past weekend that the intake seems like it could be throttled a bit for a less dramatic "on/off" action of the fire when the damper opens, so I agree with SBIs move here.
So I went downstairs to make my plate and after removing the damper door, I realized this is gonna be really simple. No sense in making this more difficult than it needs to be (like I did with my SS firebox shields a couple pages back )
The factory intake holes are already 1" tall and the center hole is already 2.5" x 1" so only hafta restrict the side holes. I just used some high temp aluminum duct tape...


Mr @3fordasho had a great idea for a temp controller that I decided to copy. Here are pics of the temp controller that I finally put on last weekend. I used a extra deep steel 4x4 electrical box with a extra thick single wall outlet cover to mount the controller in. There was just enough room for the controller and a mini relay in there too. The 4x4 box is just screwed down to the factory controls box on the back of the furnace.
The controller monitors flue temp via a thermocouple inserted into the stove pipe. When the thermostat calls for heat, the controller will close the damper once the flue temp reaches the high temp limit that I have chosen, even if the tstat is still calling for heat. The controller will keep the damper shut until the flue temp drops to a second low temp of my choosing, at that point, it will allow the damper to reopen _if_ the tstat is still not satisfied, then the cycle starts all over. Kinda keeps the furnace operating right in it's "sweet spot" even if the tstat is never satisfied (like REALLY cold out or your house is really too big for the furnace to keep up with)
Additionally, the controller will _open_ the damper if the temp drops _too_ low, say for burning off the building pile of coals that can sometimes happen in the coldest parts of the winter or if you have a "too wet" load of wood that just doesn't want to burn good after the damper closes (like right after a reload)(ever hafta leave for work in the morning before the stove was really hot enough for "cruise" mode? )

The furnace is cold in this pic so that is the basement temp showing in red.
Sorry about the blurriness of this one, camera refused to focus on this subject! Shot from above/behind


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## flotek

Slicker than snot on a door knob


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## brenndatomu

flotek said:


> Slicker than snot on a door knob


Wow, just tried that out...it really is pretty slick...just FYI


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## Digger79

djkost said:


> Anyone running a barometric damper oon their tundra. I just installed one. Haven't had a change to fire it up yet. If there is little draft will this help increase the draft? If the damper door stays shut it should run like a normal flue pipe correct? Haven't uused one before. The other day my draft ran up to 08wc and then down to 03. I decided to install one to stabilize the draft at 05-06wc.if I add 2 ft onto my chimney would this increase the draft ? Any help thanks.



I was getting short 2ndary burn times out of my tundra. I increased the stack by 2 more sections and like magic the burn times got longer during secondary which I feel is really tertiary burn. I have literally built one of these re burning furnaces out of a barrel stove out of interest in the technology so I have learned it fairly well.

I can tell you this with the Tundra. Wood must be good and dry, well seasoned and the draft is important.

This furnace requires a stronger draft than conventional stoves so when it dampers down for the tertiary burn it pulls hard enough to keep the stove hotter longer thus equaling a longer tertiary burn. The baro damper is prob a good idea as you want to have the strongest draft possible when needed but not during initial firing when flu gets hottest. Its tough to increase the draw when the dampers closed with out over firing the furnace with too strong of a draft.. soo create a stack that has too strong of a draft and dial it down to a safe operating level or steady/ideal with the baro. Set the baro so its staying closed and only opening a little when the stack is at its hottest. This a way you can set the draft really high for the tertiary burn so it pulls hard pulling plenty of air thru those little pin holes. This will keep the stove at the required temp for the tertiary burn to work longer than with a weak draft or draw. Trying to nail the exact proper height is tough to impossible especially with varying wind conditions as well flue temps and fire increasing and decreasing. So over build dial down with baro damper. This has been my experience over a few years of operating the tundra. Other factors less important than strong draft and dry wood are ; fresh oxygen(rarely and issue), smaller splits stack up or loose larger splits(tightly packed loads can coal up and cool down too much giving a longer fire but less heat and less re burning so less fuel from more wood with this stove). The flu on these stoves rarely gets up to 400 degrees and only at those temps or hotter should the baro be opening slightly from the strong draw.. main damper should be open during this point. Average flu temps I get are 200-300. The type of wood is helpful too. Stove will function with woods like ash but harder woods like oak and hickory really kick this stove up to its potential. 

The idea with this stove is hot fires. You will find with hotter fires more consistently you will use much less wood than you ever did by smoldering wood in the old stoves.

Good luck and enjoy. The above is possibly worth what you just paid for it I am no physics major but starting with smaller stack, adding as I went along and experimenting with multiple types of loads and wood I have managed to increase my burn times to the claims or longer and improve efficiency, really dialing this stove in and its quite nice and efficient. No problems like anyone else has described yet and had some damn hot fires temps around 500.(temps measured with a surface magnetic cheapo stove therm placed right next to top left corner of door on main body of stove.) I run another therm on the face of the clean out for the upper chamber. I wouldn't push this stove any hotter its not your old cast iron stove. Burning above the 500-550 mark may warp things I dunno. 500 is max I've gone and its damned hot and plenty good there. Kinda reminds me of reviews I read about a 30 ton splitter guys where tearing up on logs larger than 3ft in diameter.. umm well really if your splitting 3ft and bigger diameter logs a 30 ton splitter may be a touch to light. Ive been killin it with 2' diameter logs and a few larger but big as I care to handle it smoke them with ease. things to consider there.


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## aokpops

I look threw the post an never seen this mention , been running 60 our over humidity no water pot any more ,not a bad thing . With hardly any wood brunt with the tundra I know the weather is very mild , but well under 50 percent of what is normal . Could not see were all the cracking problems were ,but with a fire this robust I can understand why .


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## Digger79

brenndatomu said:


> It seems that some of the older Tundra/Heatmaxes have larger intake holes than the later ones and SBI will send a "restrictor plate" to clip on the intake to throttle 'er down. (it comes with the brick update kit that they are sending out right now) Since my furnace is a "rescue" I won't be getting a kit and need to make my own parts. I was just thinking this past weekend that the intake seems like it could be throttled a bit for a less dramatic "on/off" action of the fire when the damper opens, so I agree with SBIs move here.
> So I went downstairs to make my plate and after removing the damper door, I realized this is gonna be really simple. No sense in making this more difficult than it needs to be (like I did with my SS firebox shields a couple pages back )
> The factory intake holes are already 1" tall and the center hole is already 2.5" x 1" so only hafta restrict the side holes. I just used some high temp aluminum duct tape...
> View attachment 457069
> 
> Mr @3fordasho had a great idea for a temp controller that I decided to copy. Here are pics of the temp controller that I finally put on last weekend. I used a extra deep steel 4x4 electrical box with a extra thick single wall outlet cover to mount the controller in. There was just enough room for the controller and a mini relay in there too. The 4x4 box is just screwed down to the factory controls box on the back of the furnace.
> The controller monitors flue temp via a thermocouple inserted into the stove pipe. When the thermostat calls for heat, the controller will close the damper once the flue temp reaches the high temp limit that I have chosen, even if the tstat is still calling for heat. The controller will keep the damper shut until the flue temp drops to a second low temp of my choosing, at that point, it will allow the damper to reopen _if_ the tstat is still not satisfied, then the cycle starts all over. Kinda keeps the furnace operating right in it's "sweet spot" even if the tstat is never satisfied (like REALLY cold out or your house is really too big for the furnace to keep up with)
> Additionally, the controller will _open_ the damper if the temp drops _too_ low, say for burning off the building pile of coals that can sometimes happen in the coldest parts of the winter or if you have a "too wet" load of wood that just doesn't want to burn good after the damper closes (like right after a reload)(ever hafta leave for work in the morning before the stove was really hot enough for "cruise" mode? )
> View attachment 457070
> The furnace is cold in this pic so that is the basement temp showing in red.
> Sorry about the blurriness of this one, camera refused to focus on this subject! Shot from above/behind
> View attachment 457072



I reduced the air intake by bending the connection bar to the hook driven by motor just sightly. two things happens.. the tab coming off the damper door fits the hook better now so it doesn't slope around, it fits right in the bend and stays snug now. As well the damper doesn't open quite as far so it has reduced the oxygen intake tad similar to smaller holes. in other words instead of a plate you can just bend the damper to open to your liking and it will slow the speed which air molecules can squeeze thru the opening. Smaller the crack the less can fit through per second.


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## BrantSFGDS

I finally installed Tundra and got to use it for half a season. I love it! I checked with Drolet to make sure mine had the improvements and I haven't had any problems. It burns 12 hours without any hassle and I haven't had any problems with the 8" chimney.


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## aokpops

Should have bought a drolet years ago would have saved a lot of work


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## Jules083

Mine just started cracking, I bought it in January 2015. Any words of advice? They still standing behind this thing? I’d love to just have a refund or credit to get the new bigger one, this thing is just slightly undersized on the real cold days for my house. 

Calling Drolet after work.


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## brenndatomu

Jules083 said:


> Mine just started cracking, I bought it in January 2015. Any words of advice? They still standing behind this thing? I’d love to just have a refund or credit to get the new bigger one, this thing is just slightly undersized on the real cold days for my house.
> 
> Calling Drolet after work.


I haven't heard of them hanging anybody out to dry...yours still have the lifetime firebox warranty? They changed that on the last couple of years of the T1...


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## Jules083

brenndatomu said:


> I haven't heard of them hanging anybody out to dry...yours still have the lifetime firebox warranty? They changed that on the last couple of years of the T1...



That’s a good question, I have no idea. I emailed them all the pictures they asked for, waiting to hear back from them now. 

Thanks.


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## aokpops

Were was the cracking at ? Any photos ? Had one a few years now small crack at the corner of the door . Every stove I seen done this


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## Jules083

aokpops said:


> Were was the cracking at ? Any photos ? Had one a few years now small crack at the corner of the door . Every stove I seen done this


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## alleyyooper

I removed a over 30 year old Southerern Aire add on Wood furnace because it had a crack in it. One crack about 5 inches long and maybe a 1/16 inch wide right at the top of the fire box. Like I said it was over 30 years old it was in the house when we bought it and I hove no Idea how long the PO's had it.

 Al


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## brenndatomu

Jules083 said:


>


Pretty classic cracks on the Tundra 1...maybe a bit longer than some...


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## Jules083

brenndatomu said:


> Pretty classic cracks on the Tundra 1...maybe a bit longer than some...



I’m guessing they’ve been growing for a while and I’ve just not noticed them. I got a questionnaire emailed to me, need to fill it out and email it back. Hopefully they warranty this thing. 

Either way, I’m a welder by trade and have a full shop at home. So if they don’t warranty it I’ll fix this one, and if they do warranty it and don’t want this one back I’ll probably still fix it. It’ll look good heating the garage.


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## brenndatomu

They usually have you peel the ID/info tag off it to send back to them for the warranty credit (which may be in the form of store credit depending on where you bought it) then you do what you want with it. Technically, without the tag your insurance company won't approve the install (if they check it)


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## Jules083

Just got the email back from SBI. They offered to replace the firebox, meaning I’d disassemble my woodburner, then rebuild it around the new firebox. 


Thoughts on this option? Given my choice I think I’d prefer a credit towards getting a new Heatpro, which is their bigger model. 

I’m going to call and ask about that option I think.


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## Jules083




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## laynes69

Jules083 said:


> View attachment 685973


Been there done that with our woodfurnace. It's a viable option, not too much involved but does require some work. In the end, you'll end up with alot of extra replacement parts.


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## Jules083

laynes69 said:


> Been there done that with our woodfurnace. It's a viable option, not too much involved but does require some work. In the end, you'll end up with alot of extra replacement parts.



So that's the route you took then? Any issues since? I'm assuming the new firebox is upgraded in a way to keep it from cracking again?


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## laynes69

Ours didn't crack, we have a rebadged Caddy. They are just about similar firebox wise. It was easier for us to accept the firebox since I had to already dissemble our furnace to get it in the basement. I ended up with an upgraded baffle and replacement bricks, tubes and other items for spares. If you don't care about doing the work, I would almost go that route. Otherwise they can replace the entire furnace.


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## Jules083

laynes69 said:


> Ours didn't crack, we have a rebadged Caddy. They are just about similar firebox wise. It was easier for us to accept the firebox since I had to already dissemble our furnace to get it in the basement. I ended up with an upgraded baffle and replacement bricks, tubes and other items for spares. If you don't care about doing the work, I would almost go that route. Otherwise they can replace the entire furnace.



Cool, thanks. 

I'm not worried about the work, it's no big deal either way. If they're not keen on giving me credit towards the bigger one I guess I'll just go ahead and change the firebox out.


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## brenndatomu

Jules083 said:


> View attachment 685973


Really about the same amount of work either way...as far as the panels, you can have those off in a few minutes. 
The main difference is the new one would have the plenum with it and a variable speed blower...but from what I hear that isn't as big of a deal as it sounds.
Have you pushed them at all for the credit toward a Heatpro?


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## brenndatomu

Jules083 said:


> So that's the route you took then? Any issues since? I'm assuming the new firebox is upgraded in a way to keep it from cracking again?



If that is the same firebox they are using on the TII now (and I think it is) it sounds like they have properly addressed the cracking issues.


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## Jules083

brenndatomu said:


> Really about the same amount of work either way...as far as the panels, you can have those off in a few minutes.
> The main difference is the new one would have the plenum with it and a variable speed blower...but from what I hear that isn't as big of a deal as it sounds.
> Have you pushed them at all for the credit toward a Heatpro?




I asked them for a credit Wednesday, haven’t heard back yet.

Hopefully they go for it.


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## 2412

I fired my new Tundra II last week for the first time. Here are some observations. 

- They include three bags of screws. A large bag of square drive screws, a small bag of self drilling screws, and a small bag of Phillips drive screws. The manual does not clearly detail the usage of the screws. After talking to them on the phone, I believe the self drilling screws are intended for capping off the unused plenum holes. I also believe the large bag is for assembling the plenum. I do not know what the small bag of Phillips drive is for. They are slightly smaller than the square drive screws. 

- There is a display and two buttons on the electrical box. There is no documentation on its purpose except a note on page 33 of the manual. When I asked, I was told that it is only for factory use. When I said that pressing the left button, you could see the temperature of the probe. He confirmed this. Does anyone have more info on this, either from hacking, or otherwise?

- The connector on the electrical box for the plenum probe is not captive. You can lift it right out of the electrical box. The guy I spoke to didn’t offer any suggestions. I want to enlarge the hole so that the mounting ears on the connector will engage in the box wall, but I don’t want to screw up the warranty. 

- The book only mentions the ash plug in the troubleshooting section. How hard would it be for them to add a paragraph in the operation section?

- I like the stove. The operation is simple. It has a convection draft. The combustion control is a two position shutter (damper) on the front combustion air intake. It is either open or closed. There is a switch on the control box to open or close the shutter. There is also an electrical connection on the control box for a thermostat. The shutter will be open when the thermostat is calling for heat, and closed otherwise. You can also switch the shutter open as an override to the thermostat. 

The two speed blower comes on when the probe reads 125° and switches off when the probe reads 110°. I do not know what temperature activates high speed yet. 

By filling the firebox and running the draft shutter closed, I can get a pretty consistent 12 hour burn - so far.


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## brenndatomu

2412 said:


> I fired my new Tundra II last week for the first time. Here are some observations.
> 
> - They include three bags of screws. A large bag of square drive screws, a small bag of self drilling screws, and a small bag of Phillips drive screws. The manual does not clearly detail the usage of the screws. After talking to them on the phone, I believe the self drilling screws are intended for capping off the unused plenum holes. I also believe the large bag is for assembling the plenum. I do not know what the small bag of Phillips drive is for. They are slightly smaller than the square drive screws.
> 
> - There is a display and two buttons on the electrical box. There is no documentation on its purpose except a note on page 33 of the manual. When I asked, I was told that it is only for factory use. When I said that pressing the left button, you could see the temperature of the probe. He confirmed this. Does anyone have more info on this, either from hacking, or otherwise?
> 
> - The connector on the electrical box for the plenum probe is not captive. You can lift it right out of the electrical box. The guy I spoke to didn’t offer any suggestions. I want to enlarge the hole so that the mounting ears on the connector will engage in the box wall, but I don’t want to screw up the warranty.
> 
> - The book only mentions the ash plug in the troubleshooting section. How hard would it be for them to add a paragraph in the operation section?
> 
> - I like the stove. The operation is simple. It has a convection draft. The combustion control is a two position shutter (damper) on the front combustion air intake. It is either open or closed. There is a switch on the control box to open or close the shutter. There is also an electrical connection on the control box for a thermostat. The shutter will be open when the thermostat is calling for heat, and closed otherwise. You can also switch the shutter open as an override to the thermostat.
> 
> The two speed blower comes on when the probe reads 125° and switches off when the probe reads 110°. I do not know what temperature activates high speed yet.
> 
> By filling the firebox and running the draft shutter closed, I can get a pretty consistent 12 hour burn - so far.


Thanks for the feedback. Haven't had too many people report back in on the TII, just gotta assume that it works good at that point...no news is good news, right?!


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## 2412

brenndatomu said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Haven't had too many people report back in on the TII, just gotta assume that it works good at that point...no news is good news, right?!



Right!

I’m still reading through the thread. I hadn’t found it when I was looking for info before I ordered the TII. 

I found another place for the self drilling screws. When you use both plenum sections (adjustable height) you can use them to fasten the sections together when you get the height set. Mine is in my machine shed/shop, and I don’t have any ductwork to connect. I will be enclosing an office area - former horse stall, and I will add some duct for that area eventually.


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## Jules083

Well, they have offered to exchange my cracked Drolet for a new Heatpro, with me paying the cost difference. I’m very happy with that offer, going to go through with it. Their email seems to take a week each time so at this rate it’ll be January before I actually get the new one, which is fine.


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## blades

that is great news. So few companies stand behind there products these days that it is refreshings to here things like this.


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## Jules083

blades said:


> that is great news. So few companies stand behind there products these days that it is refreshings to here things like this.



I said the same thing to them in the email. I also have a Drolet HT2000 upstairs, I highly recommend both it and the Tundra to anyone.


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## blades

i have often wondered how the ht2000 stacks up against the nc30 Unless something changes again today the 30 should be hooked up by this evening. been a running battle for help to move it in. I wood like an add on unit to my propane monster . The flue system would be a killer though as it would all have to be outside of the home envelope, then again perhaps not -thinking about it as I have a walk in closet on one end. losing a 2'x2' area in there is no great shakes. additionally the main trunk lines are also right there. ( county and local have ban ordinance on outdoor unit - inside less cost all the way around anyway)


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## Jules083

I'm going to ask a really stupid question. Sorry. Gotta do it though.


My tundra is sitting on the ground, same as probably everyone's is. I want to put my new HeatPro on blocks off the ground. I'm thinking it will both make loading easier, and get the spiderweb of stupid 6" piping out of the way better thanks to the dumb plenum that someone's third grade kind apparently designed in art class. I'm not sure how high the blocks will have to be, as I haven't seen the furnace yet. I'll make that decision once I get it here.


That said, hooking up the stove pipe. I've always slid the furnace foreword, installed the pipe, then slid the furnace back into the pipe. When it's time for spring cleaning I slide the furnace foreword again and get the stove pipe out, then shop vac everything. Between sitting up on blocks and hoping to do my ductwork a little better this time sliding it back and forth is going to be harder. 


Does anyone have a trick on installing stove pipe that doesn't involve sliding a furnace around? Thanks.


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## 2412

Does your pipe go horizontal through a wall? It has to turn and go up at some point. Seems like you could put in a T with a clean out cap somewhere.


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## Jules083

2412 said:


> Does your pipe go horizontal through a wall? It has to turn and go up at some point. Seems like you could put in a T with a clean out cap somewhere.




Not really. The outlet on the furnace is only a foot or so lower than the thimble, so the stove pipe doesn’t really go up very much.


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## Jules083

Here's what I have now. Figure if I add another 6" or so to the height I'll be even worse off. 


Maybe I'm overthinking this? How to you all clean your stove pipes out?


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## 2412

Jules083 said:


> Here's what I have now. Figure if I add another 6" or so to the height I'll be even worse off.
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm overthinking this? How to you all clean your stove pipes out?



The geometry may work to take out the 45s, and replace them with a clean out t, a 90 and a bit of straight pipe. I’m guessing you have another 90 on the outside though, and that may be too many 90s for code or proper operation.


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## brenndatomu

Could go with telescoping pipe...but real estate looks like it is already pretty tight there. Can you go sideways with the furnace at all, that would give you more pipe length to work with. Or slide it back further, go with (2) 90's (that's assuming your chimney drafts well enough to pull that off)

Also, I wouldn't worry about using all those 6" connections on the new plenum...I'd hook it up using something larger, more of a standard install. As long as you have at least the minimum duct area spec met, should be fine. IIRC, Drolet even told someone that in an email...they said they made the plenum that way to be easy for the DIY guy to install them, doesn't hafta be done that way though...might wanna double check with them, but I'm pretty sure they said a standard plenum/duct install was OK with them.


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## Jules083

2412 said:


> The geometry may work to take out the 45s, and replace them with a clean out t, a 90 and a bit of straight pipe. I’m guessing you have another 90 on the outside though, and that may be too many 90s for code or proper operation.




I do not have any other pipe except what’s shown. From here it goes straight up in a roughly 35’ chimney, so I have plenty of draft. Had to install a barometric damper to cut draft a bit as far as that goes. 

Might go ahead with the T then. I’ve never installed one to be honest.


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## Jules083

brenndatomu said:


> Could go with telescoping pipe...but real estate looks like it is already pretty tight there. Can you go sideways with the furnace at all, that would give you more pipe length to work with. Or slide it back further, go with (2) 90's (that's assuming your chimney drafts well enough to pull that off)
> 
> Also, I wouldn't worry about using all those 6" connections on the new plenum...I'd hook it up using something larger, more of a standard install. As long as you have at least the minimum duct area spec met, should be fine. IIRC, Drolet even told someone that in an email...they said they made the plenum that way to be easy for the DIY guy to install them, doesn't hafta be done that way though...might wanna double check with them, but I'm pretty sure they said a standard plenum/duct install was OK with them.



I tried some telescoping pipe upstairs, it’s pretty stiff and seems to be more of a hassle. Could move the furnace sideways a bit or farther away from the chimney as needed, might look at those options a bit.

2 90’s would work too. Perhaps if I’m doing that option I’d be better off with a clean out T like was suggested above?


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## NSMaple1

Jules083 said:


> I do not have any other pipe except what’s shown. From here it goes straight up in a roughly 35’ chimney, so I have plenty of draft. Had to install a barometric damper to cut draft a bit as far as that goes.
> 
> Might go ahead with the T then. I’ve never installed one to be honest.



Does the chimney have a cleanout?

Pretty sure I would use a T on there (maybe even 2 - one right off the furnace then another one to go horizontal into the chimney) with a cap over the unused branch you could pop off for easy cleaning. Or your baro relocated to there, in the case of a second T. Especially with that much chimney & having to use a damper - that means you have lots of draft. Ts mean never having to take the pipe apart. Well, until something needs replacing or fixing...


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## Jules083

NSMaple1 said:


> Does the chimney have a cleanout?
> 
> Pretty sure I would use a T on there (maybe even 2 - one right off the furnace then another one to go horizontal into the chimney) with a cap over the unused branch you could pop off for easy cleaning. Or your baro relocated to there, in the case of a second T. Especially with that much chimney & having to use a damper - that means you have lots of draft. Ts mean never having to take the pipe apart. Well, until something needs replacing or fixing...



Yes, there's a cleanout on the chimney.

I'll use a T for sure, thanks. Might try to get way with 1, then can maybe use the damper hole as the second cleanout. I'll have to see how it looks.


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## Jules083

Well, the new Heatpro is burning, seems good so far. I’m running ductwork right now.


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