# How are other tree companies doing?



## sharkfin12us (May 4, 2010)

Hi from new jersey just wanted to get some feedback on how tree companies are doing.We had a nice little wind and rain storm march 13th and thats just what the doctor ordered to kick things in gear.Seems to be slowing down now maybe people are thinking about vacation.Thanks


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## Sunrise Guy (May 4, 2010)

The "economic recovery" is a sham, as I see it. The pundits seem to believe that if you say it's here, over and over, it will happen. I am barely getting by, and get closer, each day, to sending out my resume. Although the topic of being underbid by those of dubious legal residency status has been done to death on here, it has definitely effected my business to a great extent. I can't compete on $250 take-downs, done by a five-man crew with two pick-ups and a ladder.


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## DK_stihl (May 4, 2010)

*work*

The company I work for has all kinds of work, plus people are calling me for side jobs. I can't complain.


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## beowulf343 (May 4, 2010)

DK_stihl said:


> The company I work for has all kinds of work, plus people are calling me for side jobs. I can't complain.



Here too. Six days a week and still not getting caught up. Boss is thinking of adding a fifth climbing crew for the summer.
Alot of our work is in high end neighborhoods. Seems like the rich are still rich.


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## mattfr12 (May 4, 2010)

ya we are slammed here in PA best year so far of the last 4 years.


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## fishercat (May 4, 2010)

*doing great!*

I'm swamped!

Thanks Obama!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Mikecutstrees (May 6, 2010)

Nice and Busy here too!


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## tree MDS (May 6, 2010)

Busier and busier every day here.


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## treesquirrel (May 6, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I can't compete on $250 take-downs, done by a five-man crew with two pick-ups and a ladder.



Funny you mentioned this. I got underbid on a job recently by 600 bucks and the company sent out a small army for three days on a job that would have taken my partner and I two days with one additional helper on the ground. 

Seems the bigger companies are now bidding ultra cheap and not just the pickup and chainsaw guys. 

The best part was this, I was speaking to the homeowner after the work was done, I saw him out on the lake, and he informed me that during the job one of thew crew members ran over and crushed three chainsaws with the track loader. So bidding cheap and sending idiots out on jobs seemed the order of the day. There were 7 peop0le working this job and honestly any competent pair of tree workers could have done it in the three days they were there. They also left a mes, promised they would come back out and grade the disaster area and have not been back in three weeks time.


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## mckeetree (May 6, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Although the topic of being underbid by those of dubious legal residency status has been done to death on here, it has definitely effected my business to a great extent.



Hey man, some guys on here are lucky enough to not relate to that but I do. I deal with it every freakin day This area seems like it is a little "catch basin" for them or something. You can't compete with them price-wise or you will go broke.


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## flushcut (May 6, 2010)

Work is steady for this guy. We are booked up for the next three weeks with a combo of small prunes and takedowns. So far 2010 has been good. I hope the rest of you guys get busy and make that money. Stay safe and let the chips rain


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## treeslayer (May 6, 2010)

Easily getting half dozen calls a day, and nailing 2-3 jobs a day.


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## beastmaster (May 6, 2010)

Business has came to a halt for the Company I work for. Say what you want about me, but Ive been force to go out on my own seeking side jobs.
I don't even have a truck, I advertise on craigs list that I'll do the work if they do their own clean-up and hauling away.
Ive made up cards and fliers and I door knock some times if I see a dead or dieing tree. This being said, I had a really good week, though I am working my ass off for the money I am making. I have had to reinvest most the money I'm making into equipment to do jobs.
Things are really slow and people are hiring more hacks and illegals. Maybe I am contributing to the problem as I'll work for wages if I don't have to haul nothing. 
I am not a hack, I am an arborist with high standards,no insurance, no truck, who's trying to feed his family. What will be the out come of all this? I may end up a legit business man. I'm working on insurance now.


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## Blakesmaster (May 6, 2010)

*Slow, fast, I don't know...*

This is our first year for my partner and I going full time so it's hard to gauge where we should be as far as lined up work goes. My phone was ringing pretty hard the past few weeks but we're really fast at pounding out work so it's been a day to day, as we get 'em we do 'em type thing. We've banked a good amount and are almost ready to start looking at Dingos but I wonder if the work will stop soon. I kinda feel like I should be booked out several weeks so it all doesn't grind to a halt come vacation season. Guess we'll wait and see.


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## sharkfin12us (May 6, 2010)

beastmaster said:


> Business has came to a halt for the Company I work for. Say what you want about me, but Ive been force to go out on my own seeking side jobs.
> I don't even have a truck, I advertise on craigs list that I'll do the work if they do their own clean-up and hauling away.
> Ive made up cards and fliers and I door knock some times if I see a dead or dieing tree. This being said, I had a really good week, though I am working my ass off for the money I am making. I have had to reinvest most the money I'm making into equipment to do jobs.
> Things are really slow and people are hiring more hacks and illegals. Maybe I am contributing to the problem as I'll work for wages if I don't have to haul nothing.
> I am not a hack, I am an arborist with high standards,no insurance, no truck, who's trying to feed his family. What will be the out come of all this? I may end up a legit business man. I'm working on insurance now.


I hear you.Do what you have to do be safe weve all started somewhere take care.


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## ozzy42 (May 6, 2010)

Better than it was in Jan. and Feb. for sure ,but than again most of the new customers are paying 30% less than what the work is normally worth.


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## mattfr12 (May 7, 2010)

this year has givin me new hope i struggled the first 2 then 3 and now 4 have been way better we are doing 6 days a week here. and booked out over 8 weeks. when we bid jobs now we are saying a month to a month and a half before we get thier.

but i guess that is not the case for all of you and i wish you all the best of luck because its hard dangerous work that deserves good pay.

if anyone is close and needs a job i could use another climber. for full time work but serious people only that can show up everday on time. i could offer decent pay.


i pray everday for this crap economy to turn around so i can keep doing what i love. maybe this year its working.

i dont wanna go back and work for the big corps. working for youself is great.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 7, 2010)

Interesting---all of the "We're busting our butts keeping up with all of the work!" replies are from the East Coast. Wait until our local force of---uh---"low-wage workers," swarms into your neck of the woods. Then again, you guys have cold weather in your areas and our "low wage workers" don't do cold weather. Maybe you're safe, for now.


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## treeclimber101 (May 7, 2010)

I think it is gonna be a short lived rush , but I will take it I try not to complain about lack of work because I find myself complaining plenty when I'm overworked so ya can't have it both ways


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## Treetom (May 7, 2010)

*Sounds rough in Tejas.*

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches whileJose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.


If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...You are part of the problem!

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!

What are you waiting for? Pass it on.


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## indiansprings (May 7, 2010)

TreeTom rep for a fantastic post. This is a great deal of whats wrong with this country.


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## NCTREE (May 7, 2010)

Can't complain works piling up, doing less advertising and still getting more work. I have a pretty good back log already, its only early May. 

The illegals have been living here since I can't remember. This area seems to be a major hub for illegal mexicans, been that way all my life. They are no match though for an educated arborist that sells his own work and does the work himself. I know companies that have CA selling the work but then show up on the job with a bunch of unqualified illegals. Seems to put a bad taste in some customers mouths. My standards and quality of work speak for itself thats what keeps them coming back.


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## mckeetree (May 7, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Wait until our local force of---uh---"low-wage workers," swarms into your neck of the woods.



Yeah. Some of these guys have no idea the kind of problem that can impose.


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## mattfr12 (May 7, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Interesting---all of the "We're busting our butts keeping up with all of the work!" replies are from the East Coast. Wait until our local force of---uh---"low-wage workers," swarms into your neck of the woods. Then again, you guys have cold weather in your areas and our "low wage workers" don't do cold weather. Maybe you're safe, for now.



im not sure but alot of the other tree services i see use mexicans and thier are alot of mexicans riding around doing tree work. im sure we loose alot to them but alot of small jobs. i think we mainly do alot of jobs that they just cant do do to owning things like a 120,000$ crane and a 100,000$ bucket i mean how are they gonna purcahse that kinda stuff chargin 250 for a take down. 

we setup a GRCS system on 90% of our trees. ladders and a chainsaw aint gonna cut it doing alot of this work.

30% of our work is city contract that is subbed out they cant do that also enless they get ISA cert and insurance.

thats the only stuff i can think of but im not sure.

but sunrise guy you ar right you are in an area way more likely for imigrants to show up and want to find work it has been that way for 20 years or more and probably always will be. they usually just dont make it this far north i guess CA. TX are both high in mexican population.


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## treeclimber101 (May 8, 2010)

Treetom said:


> JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL
> 
> You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
> Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .
> ...


Well if JOE LEGAL wasn't to proud to take the work that JOSE ILLEGAL jumped all over for the last 80 0r so years than Jose ILLEGAL would have no chance at work , they were here before the GREAT DEPRESSION and they'll still be here for a long time, this country can't afford to pay what JOE LEGAL wants to produce the food we eat and the clothes we wear , please stop and think about what your saying before sharing with anyone else ....


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## mckeetree (May 8, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> please stop and think about what your saying before sharing with anyone else ....



No, you are the one that needs to stop and think about what you are saying before sharing with anyone else.


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## Treetom (May 8, 2010)

"Illegal aliens crossing the border and using up our country's resources without paying into the system is what I say is a problem." You can quote me on that. I'm not saying anything about the legal citizens that have been here since way back. The other post was a forward from an email I received. It's a rhetorical comment. But I believe it reflects the truth in many ways. You may feel differently if you lived in Texas or California about _illegal _Mexicans. I've thought about it, treeclimber. The "to" (sp) proud legal worker is a whole other issue.


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## beowulf343 (May 8, 2010)

I don't usually agree with treeclimber101, but this time i think he's right. People don't want to do the dirty hard work anymore or they want to make $60 dollars an hour doing it. I can see it happening right now. I've only been climbing for fifteen years-at that time there was only one immigrant doing tree work in the area and he was from Cuba. Today, my boss is trying to put together another crew and can't find anyone but immigrants willing to do the work. He pays very well, full benefits, all of us are able to support our families with just the one job, but nobody wants to work a demanding physical job, 50 hours a week, outside, except for the immigrants. It seems like if it's not an office job paying six figures a year, Americans don't want to do it. (Not saying all Americans, but it seems to be trending that way.) I hear about unemployment and am amazed. If people were willing to get their hands dirty, I know a dozen jobs in the area that pay enough to support them and their family. Heck, my boss is willing to pay a newbie 16 an hour to drag brush and isn't getting takers. Laziness and an unwillingness to get dirty is opening the door for a mexican takeover.


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## tree MDS (May 8, 2010)

Yep.

Most of the white boys just dont have it these days.. been going through it for years here. You should see this ##### I made the mistake of hiring.


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## tomtrees58 (May 8, 2010)

it was busy but slow now


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## treeclimber101 (May 8, 2010)

Treetom said:


> "Illegal aliens crossing the border and using up our country's resources without paying into the system is what I say is a problem." You can quote me on that. I'm not saying anything about the legal citizens that have been here since way back. The other post was a forward from an email I received. It's a rhetorical comment. But I believe it reflects the truth in many ways. You may feel differently if you lived in Texas or California about _illegal _Mexicans. I've thought about it, treeclimber. The "to" (sp) proud legal worker is a whole other issue.



No its the issue , if the position was filled why would you travel here, people sugar coat the laziness and willingness of our youth , and even in this little hole were in those who complain of lack of work oppurtunities still are unwilling to work these jobs plain and simple..Oh and lets not forget that the GOV. makes plenty off these guys with there fake SS# its pretty hard to do a return with a fake # so the government collects and doesn't pay any of it back , so believe me they want them here to, its free money for UNCLE SAM


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## treeman75 (May 8, 2010)

I have a three man crew including me, I am two weeks back and will stay that way until late fall. Most of my work is from past customers and referrals.


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## Treetom (May 8, 2010)

As far as how I'm doing with the tree service, I'm usually scheduled out for a week. I write quite a few estimates, probably get about 25% of those jobs. A lot of work comes from repeat clients. I keep a three man crew busy for 25 hours a week, a little more this past week.


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## ewoolsey (May 8, 2010)

Treetom said:


> JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL
> 
> You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
> Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .
> ...


 people who hire them are all greedy , they make me sick.


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## ewoolsey (May 8, 2010)

have work ,but the rain and high winds keep us from getting much done , 1-2 days a week if lucky.


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## tree MDS (May 8, 2010)

treeman75 said:


> I have a three man crew including me, I am two weeks back and will stay that way until late fall. Most of my work is from past customers and referrals.



This is generally the category that I fall into as well - unless its a crap year like last year, it was just a battle to stay afloat.

Things are looking real good so far this year. It just gets hard to keep up sometimes, I have to say though. This is usually where I find I have dropped the ball and run out of work at times in the past.. trying to be employee like and just do the work, while slacking off on the biz end. I'm gonna try and stay on top of things this year though.


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## treeclimber101 (May 8, 2010)

ewoolsey said:


> people who hire them are all greedy , they make me sick.



You must be ill alot ....


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## huskystihl (May 8, 2010)

Wet in ohio! Everytime it dries a bit it pours some more and anything I could be doing is in yards that you can't rut up. Same story every year though, start out slow and end up killin myself...


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## TreEmergencyB (May 8, 2010)

mattfr12 said:


> this year has givin me new hope i struggled the first 2 then 3 and now 4 have been way better we are doing 6 days a week here. and booked out over 8 weeks. when we bid jobs now we are saying a month to a month and a half before we get thier.
> 
> but i guess that is not the case for all of you and i wish you all the best of luck because its hard dangerous work that deserves good pay.
> 
> ...



to bad im in the process of getting a mortgage i need to get outa my company!!


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## treeman75 (May 8, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> This is generally the category that I fall into as well - unless its a crap year like last year, it was just a battle to stay afloat.
> 
> Things are looking real good so far this year. It just gets hard to keep up sometimes, I have to say though. This is usually where I find I have dropped the ball and run out of work at times in the past.. trying to be employee like and just do the work, while slacking off on the biz end. I'm gonna try and stay on top of things this year though.



I hear ya I like doing my own cutting. You still have to take time to run bids and other things, it seems like the ground work gets done faster if I'm around though.


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## newsawtooth (May 8, 2010)

*Where to start?*



Treetom said:


> JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL
> 
> You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
> Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .
> ...



Not only is the effective tax rate wrong because they do not include basic deductions and inaccurate tax rates, the effective tax rate is more like 18%, but the basic math is wrong. 30% of 52,000 is 15,600 not 20,769. Who pays 30% in taxes much less 40%? Joe's health care is likely provided by his employer, he might receive social security payments eventually, and his employer is paying taxes on Joe's labor. Jose Illegal as he is known, cannot collect any benefits without verifiable identification, he must pay for medical care in cash, he is unable to recover any tax refunds for his children, and his employer is relived of the $18000 or so in taxes that he must pay on Joe. If you guys are going to rely on Glenn Beck for your information, at least check his math.


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## gr8scott72 (May 9, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> he must pay for medical care in cash,



Oh really? :monkey: "Must pay" and "supposed to pay" is the difference between theory and reality.

And who pays to educate his kids?

And who pays when he crashes his uninsured car into someone else's?


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## treesquirrel (May 9, 2010)

newsawtooth; said:


> Who pays 30% in taxes much less 40%?



A lot of people pay well over 30% in taxes. If you are diligent enough maybe you will experience that tax bracket. But probably not.


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## ronnyb (May 9, 2010)

Busy here. Booked a little over 5 weeks out.


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## tree MDS (May 9, 2010)

ronnyb said:


> Busy here. Booked a little over 5 weeks out.



Thats awesome. I've never been booked that far ahead. you must run a tight ship. How do you tell people they are gonna have to wait so long??


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

ronnyb said:


> Busy here. Booked a little over 5 weeks out.




I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> Not only is the effective tax rate wrong because they do not include basic deductions and inaccurate tax rates, the effective tax rate is more like 18%, but the basic math is wrong. 30% of 52,000 is 15,600 not 20,769. Who pays 30% in taxes much less 40%? Joe's health care is likely provided by his employer, he might receive social security payments eventually, and his employer is paying taxes on Joe's labor. Jose Illegal as he is known, cannot collect any benefits without verifiable identification, he must pay for medical care in cash, he is unable to recover any tax refunds for his children, and his employer is relived of the $18000 or so in taxes that he must pay on Joe. If you guys are going to rely on Glenn Beck for your information, at least check his math.



Your post, as above, is laughable, in a sad way. Perhaps you have no actual experience with what you're talking about, so I'll let that slide. People do, indeed, pay 30% in taxes, or more, depending on state of residency, income bracket, local/state/federal regulations, etc. Jose chose to come here, illegally, and usually learns how to work the system: He pays no federal taxes, his kids get free educations, he and his family get free medical care. I pay taxes, lots and lots of taxes. I pay into the school district where Jose's kids go to get their education. I cannot opt out, even though my kids are grown. That school district has terrible schools where the kids don't care to learn. I am taxed to the breaking point. I pay taxes into the city and county-run medical services. I don't use them. Guess who does? I'm glad you're insulated from the reality of the system I deal with all of the time, but don't talk the talk until you've walked the walk.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

gr8scott72 said:


> Oh really? :monkey: "Must pay" and "supposed to pay" is the difference between theory and reality.
> 
> And who pays to educate his kids?
> 
> And who pays when he crashes his uninsured car into someone else's?



RIGHT ON! The guy needs a crash course in reality.


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## newsawtooth (May 9, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> RIGHT ON! The guy needs a crash course in reality.



Reality? How about intellectual honesty? I took issue with the calculations used to show the relationship between fictional characters. If your effective tax rate as a head of household or joint filer with standard deductions is 30% and you make less than $363K, you need a new accountant. If 30% of 52,000 is 20,769 then you need a new calculator.


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## mckeetree (May 9, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----



I think some of these guys are working in a different dimension than us or something. Maybe some sort of parallel universe.


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## oldirty (May 9, 2010)

i get 35% of my money taxed and then after all the deductions i pay 50$ a week in medical insurance. 

doesn't make it worthwhile to work 60+ hrs a week but i do. 

oh and i am eligible for nothing.


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## gr8scott72 (May 9, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> Reality? How about intellectual honesty? I took issue with the calculations used to show the relationship between fictional characters. If your effective tax rate as a head of household or joint filer with standard deductions is 30% and you make less than $363K, you need a new accountant. If 30% of 52,000 is 20,769 then you need a new calculator.



And if you think an illegal is going to pay for education, insurance, or medical care, you need a reality check.


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## ronnyb (May 9, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----



Not a magician, just a good businessman. I have a client list of approximately 1100, don't advertise, and always recieve referrals. I don't try to compete with the "economy" or "affordable" tree services. I do sell my credentials and am honest with my clients. If a client can't wait, or I just can't fit them into my schedule; I have two other companies that I refer them to. Works for me. We also have illegal hack companies, but I don't even try to compete with them. 6 or 7 years ago, we would be booked 3 months or more out.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> I think some of these guys are working in a different dimension than us or something. Maybe some sort of parallel universe.



That's funny. I said almost the same thing, word for word, to my gf, after reading about the guy who claims to be booked five weeks out.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

ronnyb said:


> Not a magician, just a good businessman. I have a client list of approximately 1100, don't advertise, and always recieve referrals. I don't try to compete with the "economy" or "affordable" tree services. I do sell my credentials and am honest with my clients. If a client can't wait, or I just can't fit them into my schedule; I have two other companies that I refer them to. Works for me. We also have illegal hack companies, but I don't even try to compete with them. 6 or 7 years ago, we would be booked 3 months or more out.



OK, let's get into a reality check, here. Maybe I'm not understanding you, and I honestly apologize if that's the case. Are you saying that you are booked SOLID 5 weeks into the future, as in every day of the week you're doing single jobs for residential customers? Are you saying that a customer calls you and needs work done and you tell them, "I can get to it in five weeks." and they're perfectly fine with that? Further, are you saying that an apparently great number of customers are cool with waiting weeks for you to do their jobs? *OR * Are you saying that you have a single client who is wanting you to do their trees in five weeks?

If the former is the case, what is the name of your tree company? What are your credentials, that you refer to? 

There was a guy on here, a real blowhard, whom I researched through various arboricultural foundation sites, online. Once I "outed" him, he disappeared. Seems most of his claims were spurious.

OK, so, what is your company's name, and what are your credentials, if you would be so kind----


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

gr8scott72 said:


> And if you think an illegal is going to pay for education, insurance, or medical care, you need a reality check.


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## booboo (May 9, 2010)

FWIW, I DO total out at 28% for taxes between federal, state, FICA, town, and school...so those #'s are not too far off here. And we are still very slow. The "recovery" in the far upstate is non-existent and NYS itself is bordering on insolvency....


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## beowulf343 (May 9, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> That's funny. I said almost the same thing, word for word, to my gf, after reading about the guy who claims to be booked five weeks out.



Why are you having such a hard time believing this? Five or six guys on this thread have said they were booked two or more weeks ahead. Last i looked at the job board, my crew has jobs scheduled every day except sundays up till june 17th, and we're only one crew out of twenty in the outfit. 

Maybe if you spent a little less time on this forum whining about illegals and a little more time picking up jobs.....


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## Sunrise Guy (May 9, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Why are you having such a hard time believing this? Five or six guys on this thread have said they were booked two or more weeks ahead. Last i looked at the job board, my crew has jobs scheduled every day except sundays up till june 17th, and we're only one crew out of twenty in the outfit.
> 
> Maybe if you spent a little less time on this forum whining about illegals and a little more time picking up jobs.....



Watch it, man. I'm not "whining about illegals." If you want to attack me on some low level, I'll report your f:censored:ing :censored: I'm stating, in here, why business is off, and the facts are what they are. If some independent is saying that he's booked five weeks out, I want to know how. You are apparently working for some mega-company with twenty crews. There's a huge difference in that whole scene. BIG companies have sweetheart contracts with municipal governing bodies, and I can't compete there. In the South, where independents are trying to stay afloat, the illegal problem is huge. To talk, on here, with other guys who are dealing with the same issue, gives a little bit of relief, to an extent. Whining is not what I'm doing. This is a forum, so I'm discussing issues that are relevant to me and others. If you don't want to read my posts, I believe there's a way to block them.


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## mattfr12 (May 10, 2010)

we are booked out more than 5 weeks solid work maybe closer to 8. we run 2 crews doing 2-3 smaller jobs a day. or one larger job a piece. 

maybe its because of the nature of alot of trees we cut a bunch of mexicans and a ladder arnt gonna cut it on some of this stuff. 

on top of our residential we prune oaks during the winter season for 3 townships.

if anyone doesnt buy it i can provide company info and referances.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 10, 2010)

mattfr12 said:


> we are booked out more than 5 weeks solid work maybe closer to 8. we run 2 crews doing 2-3 smaller jobs a day. or one larger job a piece.
> 
> maybe its because of the nature of alot of trees we cut a bunch of mexicans and a ladder arnt gonna cut it on some of this stuff.
> 
> ...



Are you doing contract work for a utility? ROW work for a municipality? Doing the math: Your company is doing 4-6 jobs a day. If we assume a 5-6 day work week, you are doing 20-36 jobs/wk., and being booked 8 weeks out, you have 160-288 folks waiting for you. Are you the only tree company in town? What is the effective population of your client base? Sure, I'll bite: What is your company's name?

I'm not trying to be an :censored:-hole, here. I sincerely want to understand how other companies, in other areas, get so many gigs. Down here, I get calls from employees of the two biggies, orange and green, looking for work, because they've been let go due to the slow-down.


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## mattfr12 (May 10, 2010)

Bulldog Tree Care Located In McDonald PA, 

and yes i do alot of township and municipality work. one crew usually does township/municipality work 4 days out of a week.

so the residential numbers that are waiting are about half of what you estimated.

sunrise i truthfully wish i knew what to say to help you because i would like to see you make more $$ everyone should.

were not the only tree company in town but we are the only tree company with a 160 foot elliot crane for 50 miles probably. are bread and butter is larger removal trees that no one wants to mess with.

if thiers anything i can do to help just let me know i can PM you my number.


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## ewoolsey (May 10, 2010)

i have maybe 3 weeks of work ,people here dont have a problem with waiting, it must be a texas thing ? any way texas has trees ?


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## Sunrise Guy (May 10, 2010)

mattfr12 said:


> Bulldog Tree Care Located In McDonald PA,
> 
> and yes i do alot of township and municipality work. one crew usually does township/municipality work 4 days out of a week.
> 
> ...




Thanks, my brother. It's a reaffirmation of the goodness of the human spirit when someone takes the time to reply in an honest, concerned way, like you did, and not like an :censored:, as some on here do. I'm glad everything is going your way up there. I hang in. If I did not own several rental properties, though, my work day might begin with, "Welcome to WalMart! Here's a basket for you." Luckily I made good investments as a kid, and paid off everything I own. Now it's the $20+ G's in tax bills that I get in December that haunt my dreams when I'm not in the trees. Again, thanks for your reply.


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## pdqdl (May 10, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----



Ain't that a fact!

When we quote a job, we always ask if they are in a hurry, or if they mind waiting a bit. Generally, we are finding out how likely we are to be fired if some of the employees don't come to work that day.


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## flushcut (May 11, 2010)

Sunrise, work is good in brewcity. People here understand that you work and need to book yourself out to make it in the work environment. Besides Milwaukee is so blue collar. My customers won't hire illegals or crews that don't have insurance and that speaks for the majority of Milwaukee county. I would have to say a lot of business comes from word of mouth and that pulls a lot of weight with customers knowing the job is going to be done right. I had one guy bring us four jobs in the past two weeks and that is how this town works.


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## mckeetree (May 11, 2010)

flushcut said:


> People here understand that you work and need to book yourself out to make it in the work environment.



People don't understand a GD thing down here in mexicanville.


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## flushcut (May 11, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> People don't understand a GD thing down here in mexicanville.


 Sorry to hear that maybe you should think about relocating. Their are mexican crews up here but they mainly stick to the landscaping end and not the trees.


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## mattfr12 (May 11, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Sorry to hear that maybe you should think about relocating. Their are mexican crews up here but they mainly stick to the landscaping end and not the trees.



I try to use my credentials such as insurance and ISA certs to an advantage.

I tell customers alot that if they hire someone other than me to atleast make sure that they are insured and that they can be held liable for various things if something went wrong.

and if they do not carry workers comp someone could sue if they where injured on thier property.

use all the aces up your sleeve.

because i can guarntee they dont have insurance. and if they damage someones property how are you gonna pursue someone that doesntt even have enough money to pay for the damages.

a employee of mine's son needed a tree that was struck by lightning cut down a black oak. the strike split the tree at the top making it dangrous to climb due to like 5 widow makers and the tree being split. this tree was around 70-80 feet tall i was only gonna charge him 1500.00 because he was a friend and i knew he wasnt a jillion air with money falling out of his ears. this included a 3 man crew and a JLG lift that was 500.00 for the day because it was in a backyard i couldnt get a bucket to. this would have taken me 2 days because of getting the wood out and brush. i would have profited 500-600 for 2 days.

needless to say he found a guy on craiglist to do it for 350.00 dropped it right down the middle of his house and the guy is missing to this day this day happend 2 years ago.

thier was no possible way to drop this tree. people and thier chainsaws i tell you what.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 11, 2010)

*Gee, looks like ronnyb has disappeared----*

Imagine that. Funny how when you ask these guys who post about how they're booked 5 weeks in advance to give you their company name and credentials they get real scarce. Sure, he's probably working one of his four jobs/day, right now! Maybe he is so busy scheduling his next 100 jobs over the next five weeks that he has no time for AS. Sure, that's what it is, yeah------


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## Sunrise Guy (May 11, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> People don't understand a GD thing down here in mexicanville.



Oh man, do you have that RIGHT! Down here, all they understand is, "Hey, me and my friends can get that tree down for $200. No problem."


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## mckeetree (May 11, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Oh man, do you have that RIGHT! Down here, all they understand is, "Hey, me and my friends can get that tree down for $200. No problem."



I have had to listen to them telling HO's "No, me cuttie, me cuttie. Me cuttie one time for you. Everything. Me cuttie." That is really a fairly depressing thing to be subjected to.


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## ropensaddle (May 11, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> I have had to listen to them telling HO's "No, me cuttie, me cuttie. Me cuttie one time for you. Everything. Me cuttie." That is really a fairly depressing thing to be subjected to.


Yup especially when they are not supposed to be here.


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## beowulf343 (May 11, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Watch it, man. I'm not "whining about illegals." If you want to attack me on some low level, I'll report your f:censored:ing :censored:



Oh no, you're going to report my ####ing ass!!! Get a grip jackass, I'm not some newbie on the site that you can bully with your scare tactics.

I do find it interesting though, I make one smart ass comment and you go off the deep end-you figure I'm an #######. No problem, that's your prerogative. Yet you can make several smart ass comments about a guy answering the question, basically call him a liar, and call him out, and you don't consider yourself an #######? I don't know this ronnyb, but I'm curious why you have a hair up your ass over him since he seems to have answered your original question rather politely a couple pages back. 
Tell you what, maybe this will be enough to get me "reported." Why don't you shut the #### up about ronnyb-you are sounding like a baby with a temper tantrum because he has work and you don't.


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## oldirty (May 11, 2010)

get him big dog! wooooof.


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## Toddppm (May 11, 2010)

opcorn:


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## mckeetree (May 11, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Yup especially when they are not supposed to be here.



Yeah, that makes it worse. Even if they were supposed to be here it is painful to hear somebody act that GD'd retarded and think that is your competition.


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## ropensaddle (May 11, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> Yeah, that makes it worse. Even if they were supposed to be here it is painful to hear somebody act that GD'd retarded and think that is your competition.



Yup I need my video proof of the e3 machiteers lol I hope the best for you Mckee


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## treeclimber101 (May 12, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i get 35% of my money taxed and then after all the deductions i pay 50$ a week in medical insurance.
> 
> doesn't make it worthwhile to work 60+ hrs a week but i do.
> 
> oh and i am eligible for nothing.



Quit your #####in your making the big money , don't ever complain about your pay while your swinging from that boom , or I'll drive up there and smack the taste outta your whiny mouth.....And if it was my crane I would make ya work a hr. a day for free since ya got such a gravy job, and stop complaining about OT too it makes look ungrateful.. You should go to work an hr. early tomorrow and scrub your bosses escalade.....


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## treeclimber101 (May 12, 2010)

There are a lot of dirty diapers that may need some attention lurking around parts....


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## oldirty (May 12, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> You should go to work an hr. early tomorrow and scrub your bosses escalade.....



he drives a company pickup.


i wasn't #####ing about money or hours meathead. i was just saying that when you work a huge week and get almost a grand taken from you in one check does that seem fair? no.

and i love ot. always have always will.

take that ride eddie.


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## treeclimber101 (May 13, 2010)

oldirty said:


> he drives a company pickup.
> 
> 
> i wasn't #####ing about money or hours meathead. i was just saying that when you work a huge week and get almost a grand taken from you in one check does that seem fair? no.
> ...


I you don't want me to come visit , it would be too much fun for me ...


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