# Which top-handle?



## showlandjr (Sep 4, 2010)

Hi all, my name is Shelby, this will be my first post here, so I apologize before hand if I have offended anyones sense of etiquette, please feel free to inform me.

I am looking to expand my tree service business and set of skills. I run a very small scale operation with plankton, He's got all the big saws, so I'm planning to invest in the climbing gear and saw. If you have any information to help me that would be great. My main question thought is pertaining to getting a top handle saw for climbing, and I am wondering that you think i should get.

Thanks, showlandjr.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 4, 2010)

Your question will be answered by looking thru the threads. 
Jeff


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## Norwayclimber (Sep 4, 2010)

The answer is Stihl 200t. 

Try using the search option before asking questions next time, and people will usually be a bit more friendly. But old Jeff is just a grumpy old man 

There really ought to be a sticky post regarding climbingsaw (Stihl 200t) in this forum, though.


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## RacerX (Sep 4, 2010)

You cannot go wrong with a 200T. Using the search option is a good start for reviewing past info. And also feel free to ask any question that you want. If someone finds the question insipid then they don't have to answer.


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## Treetom (Sep 4, 2010)

I recommend the top handle the guy is topping out the trees with in this video.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=147291

Stihl MS200t, of course. Many posts on this subject. Welcome to AS Showland.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 4, 2010)

Norwayclimber said:


> The answer is Stihl 200t.
> 
> Try using the search option before asking questions next time, and people will usually be a bit more friendly. But old Jeff is just a grumpy old man
> 
> There really ought to be a sticky post regarding climbingsaw (Stihl 200t) in this forum, though.



You just hate Swede's! lol 
Jeff


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## pucksaw (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey Shelby,
Here is my advice, if you have question just ask it, there are some great folks here that will answer your question. I think some hear the same questions over and over, and get frustrated....there are others that will answer the same question over and over...and are happy to do it.
Sorry I don't have an answer....I just mostly have questions, but welcome aboard I think you will enjoy.


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## angelo c (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, he just asked for 'A' top handle saw, he didn't ask for the "best" top handle saw...


with that in mind I still say 200t....there is no substitute !!


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 4, 2010)

angelo c said:


> Well, he just asked for 'A' top handle saw, he didn't ask for the "best" top handle saw...
> 
> 
> with that in mind I still say 200t....there is no substitute !!



So you suggest a lesser saw, then!
Jeff opcorn:


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## angelo c (Sep 5, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> So you suggest a lesser saw, then!
> Jeff opcorn:



uuuuhhhh mmmmm uhhhh let me be clear there is no lesser ahhh of aaaaa mmmm saw then the e-lux 338xp....or 192t or a redmax 3500 in order of decreasing lesserness.

(in my best Obama impression)


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## showlandjr (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks all for your input, and i would love to get a 200t, thought my budget might limit me a bit, i was thinking about getting a used solo or a new echo, and but if there is a used 200t for sale i would love to buy it. I looked in the Tradin' Post, and the one 200t for sale got me no response. Also, how necessary is it to have a top handle or could i just use a light back handle?


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## benjo75 (Sep 7, 2010)

You can use a back handle until you need to hold a limb with one hand and cut with the other. The 200t is the way to go.


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## bayard (Sep 7, 2010)

*192t*

come on the 192 for 300 $ is not that bad for part time work.i use it for part time tree work.works great.600 plus tax is a lot for part time work.kenny


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## showlandjr (Sep 7, 2010)

yeah that 600 price tag for a new saw really crunches my nuts, maybe i will look at the 192t, i am currently working though a deal for the solo top handle(from Tradin' Post). i will se what i can do with that. http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/chainsaw.gif 

i might get another also. i think with top handle i am going to want to make sure i always have one, good to have two if one is in the shop. maybe i will make my other a 200t if i get enough work in the future.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 7, 2010)

showlandjr said:


> Also, how necessary is it to have a top handle or could i just use a light back handle?



I prefer a rear handle in a tree. A 346 makes a very nice climbing saw.


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## tree md (Sep 7, 2010)

I prefer a rear handle for crane work. Anytime I am swinging big wood I prefer a rear handle. The first saw I ever climbed with was an old 026 woodboss. I still like to climb with a 260 when I am into medium wood and leave the 200 on the ground. The 361 is nice for semi-large wood as well.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 9, 2010)

Norwayclimber said:


> The answer is Stihl 200t.
> 
> Try using the search option before asking questions next time, and people will usually be a bit more friendly. But old Jeff is just a grumpy old man
> 
> There really ought to be a sticky post regarding climbingsaw (Stihl 200t) in this forum, though.



Ha, Jeff has nothing in regards to being Grumpy, or just plain douchish as some people are on here are.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

I am a 'sweetie pie'!
I wonder what I gave as ammo to 101?
Jeff


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## fishercat (Sep 9, 2010)

*skip the Solo!*



showlandjr said:


> yeah that 600 price tag for a new saw really crunches my nuts, maybe i will look at the 192t, i am currently working though a deal for the solo top handle(from Tradin' Post). i will se what i can do with that. http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/chainsaw.gif
> 
> i might get another also. i think with top handle i am going to want to make sure i always have one, good to have two if one is in the shop. maybe i will make my other a 200t if i get enough work in the future.



It's a gutless brick. Try the Husqvarna T435. you will like the price and the saw.


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## Matt Michael (Sep 9, 2010)

at the risk of being branded a novice moron I'll go against the prevailing "wisdom" and recommend the 192T. If you've never used a top handle saw you will love it. It will easily pay for itself in the first week if not the first day. Sure, it might not be as great as a 200T but for $300 or so it's a dang handy unit. If I was gonna spend $600 I'd probably buy two 192s so I had a back up.

After reading a hundred posts about the 200T I'm still not clear on what makes it twice as good as the 192. Come on guys, sell me!


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

Matt Michael said:


> at the risk of being branded a novice moron I'll go against the prevailing "wisdom" and recommend the 192T. If you've never used a top handle saw you will love it. It will easily pay for itself in the first week if not the first day. Sure, it might not be as great as a 200T but for $300 or so it's a dang handy unit. If I was gonna spend $600 I'd probably buy two 192s so I had a back up.
> 
> After reading a hundred posts about the 200T I'm still not clear on what makes it twice as good as the 192. Come on guys, sell me!



You are hereby branded a novice moron, without the moron. It would take more than half a dozen 192's to make a 200. But you may be small time and do easy and small stuff and that might be why you feel the way you do. 
Jeff


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## tree md (Sep 9, 2010)

Matt Michael said:


> at the risk of being branded a novice moron I'll go against the prevailing "wisdom" and recommend the 192T. If you've never used a top handle saw you will love it. It will easily pay for itself in the first week if not the first day. Sure, it might not be as great as a 200T but for $300 or so it's a dang handy unit. If I was gonna spend $600 I'd probably buy two 192s so I had a back up.
> 
> After reading a hundred posts about the 200T I'm still not clear on what makes it twice as good as the 192. Come on guys, sell me!



If you are doing production climbing you will get frustrated with the 192 dogging on you. Especially once you see what a 200 can do. The 192 bogs in crotch cuts and simply just doesn't have the ass the 200 does. Best power to weight ratio and best all around climbing saw in production. That is why it is the undisputed champ in the climbing world.

But don't take my word for it, try one for yourself then tell me what you think of that 192.


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## Nemus Talea (Sep 9, 2010)

If you are a good small engine mechanic you can get whatever you wish, mod and maintain it with parts from the internet. If you can barely be trusted to clean an air-cleaner you should go with the closest "trusted" dealer. Stihl, Husky, Jred all have high performance climb saws. If you go Echo be sure the DEALER tunes it nice and rich so it won't burn up as so many box store Echos have.
For a business you need two saws, a primary and a backup. Even a used Echo will do as a backup so long as it will start and finish up a job. If you're a pro don't skimp on the primary, "You'll be sorry." Really, you're using it to make money so why balk at a couple hundred dollar difference between great and suffer-able. How many jobs would you have to do till it pays for itself?
A friend of mine uses a 260 as his smallest climb saw, he doesn't like top handles. He all but exclusively does removals so that explains plenty. A little long to maneuver in a tight prune job.


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## Matt Michael (Sep 10, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are hereby branded a novice moron, without the moron. It would take more than half a dozen 192's to make a 200. But you may be small time and do easy and small stuff and that might be why you feel the way you do.
> Jeff



Well Jeff, I guess I had just better try a 200. Compared to the 009s I used for years the 192 seemed pretty cool. It beats the hell out of the Echo top handle.

I may actually be a moron but I think raising 2 kids and paying for my house with 21 years of climbing qualifies me for at least 1 grade above novice. Perhaps Small Time could be my new forum nickname.

Im sticking with my recommendation though. For a newbie starting out the 192 is a great way to go.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2010)

Matt Michael said:


> Well Jeff, I guess I had just better try a 200. Compared to the 009s I used for years the 192 seemed pretty cool. It beats the hell out of the Echo top handle.
> 
> I may actually be a moron but I think raising 2 kids and paying for my house with 21 years of climbing qualifies me for at least 1 grade above novice. Perhaps Small Time could be my new forum nickname.
> 
> Im sticking with my recommendation though. For a newbie starting out the 192 is a great way to go.



You're not a moron. Try out a 200T, and you'll find in direct comparison to a 192T that it is an entirely different saw. Liken it to a 372xp husky to a 455 rancher. It's night and day. You'll find out where the extra $300 went.


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## BCbound (Sep 10, 2010)

I use the 192t full time and it's perfect. I've also spent a lot of time with the 200t and don't think it's worth the price difference. In my area the the 200t is just under 700.00 and the 192 is 310.00. I've got a ms250 for when the spar pole gets a bit big then a 361. Great low cost set up. I would by a 192 again. Mines going on 3 seasons of full time use.


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## fishercat (Sep 10, 2010)

*both the 200 and the 192 have their place.*

the 200 will go better for the bigger pieces are you want a fast cut.The 200 is not worth buying if you don't pull the muffler screen.If you leave it in,you just wasted $300.

The 192 actually runs excellent if you let it break in and trim the limiter caps so you can adjust the carb right.I haven't met a Stihl dealer yet that could tune a 192 right.

I have a 200 and a 192. I was using the 192 99% of the time until I got the new Husky T435.I haven't used either still for a couple weeks now.I might use them tomorrow to get the gas out of them.

In all fairness,my 192 runs great and has given me no trouble in two years.


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## rbtree (Sep 10, 2010)

I don't run a T435 Husky, but hear it is plenty peppy for a $300 saw. As in only a bit slower than a 338....Which, along with its cousin, the Jonsy 2139T, are my favorite climb saws. Add a 9/16 port to the muffler, and they will beat a 200T with the screen removed. Great saws, long lasting, very well built, bargain priced...all the old problems are long since solved.

I also have 3 192T's, which really come alive with a 20 minute muffler mod, very easy, just some dremel work. They are very light, and great for pruning or light removals...almost as fast as the bigger saws (when bone stock) in small wood.


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## fishercat (Sep 11, 2010)

*I have owned three 338s.*



rbtree said:


> I don't run a T435 Husky, but hear it is plenty peppy for a $300 saw. As in only a bit slower than a 338....Which, along with its cousin, the Jonsy 2139T, are my favorite climb saws. Add a 9/16 port to the muffler, and they will beat a 200T with the screen removed. Great saws, long lasting, very well built, bargain priced...all the old problems are long since solved.
> 
> I also have 3 192T's, which really come alive with a 20 minute muffler mod, very easy, just some dremel work. They are very light, and great for pruning or light removals...almost as fast as the bigger saws (when bone stock) in small wood.



The t435 runs circles around the 338s i owned. The t435 is hands down a better saw.In all aspects.Mine rips.


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## LawnMoore (Sep 11, 2010)

I also use a 260 pro/magnum rear handle saw for climbing, if i need something smaller i use my Zubat. Larger i use my 660.

Uhm i have an old beater Echo 330 i bought from the local pawn a couple years ago after my home burnt down and i lost everything.

The 330 still works and i used it long enough to buy a new 260 and 660 so why wouldnt a used pawn shop saw work?

I would suggest sticking with in order of suggestions

Stihl 200t
Stihl 192t
Echo 330
Echo 300
Husky.. forget model but top handle is obvious.


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## Treecutr (Sep 12, 2010)

I have a 192TC, and two 020's, love them both, but I also pretty much only own stihl. I have one Husqvarna, but thats because it was a big saw DIRT cheap


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## flushcut (Sep 12, 2010)

Has anybody done a head to head challenge of all the pro and non-pro top handles? It would be really something to see. I guess you could have the stock class and modded class. I was just thinking out loud. It would end a lot of the my saw is the best on the planet stuff. If I could I would like to own one of every make/model and see for myself. I have heard that the 020t/200t is the best but have not run one. I would like to though. (side note: it was my old school saw mechanic who told me about them he's 85 and still cutting and has sold every make of saw made in recent history)


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 12, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Has anybody done a head to head challenge of all the pro and non-pro top handles? It would be really something to see. I guess you could have the stock class and modded class. I was just thinking out loud. It would end a lot of the my saw is the best on the planet stuff. If I could I would like to own one of every make/model and see for myself. I have heard that the 020t/200t is the best but have not run one. I would like to though. (side note: it was my old school saw mechanic who told me about them he's 85 and still cutting and has sold every make of saw made in recent history)



Sounds like you are dreaming out loud. It actually is "to each his own"!
Jeff


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## tree md (Sep 12, 2010)

I run a 192 and a 200. I have used both in the tree and there is no comparison. I put a little work into my 192 earlier this year. New chain, tune up, new spark plug. I figured I would give it a go in the tree since it had been awhile since I had used it topside. That lasted about an hour. It was grounded on the next tree.

I would like to try the t435 out though. Just don't make a lot of sense for me to buy a husky when I run all stihls.


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## flushcut (Sep 12, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Sounds like you are dreaming out loud. It actually is "to each his own"!
> Jeff



Maybe so, but isn't that one of the symptoms of cad?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 12, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Maybe so, but isn't that one of the symptoms of cad?



You know, You might be right on that!
Jeff


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## BaDONK (Sep 13, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Has anybody done a head to head challenge of all the pro and non-pro top handles? It would be really something to see. I guess you could have the stock class and modded class. I was just thinking out loud. It would end a lot of the my saw is the best on the planet stuff. If I could I would like to own one of every make/model and see for myself. I have heard that the 020t/200t is the best but have not run one. I would like to though. (side note: it was my old school saw mechanic who told me about them he's 85 and still cutting and has sold every make of saw made in recent history)



I have had a echo top handle, wore it out over about 10 years.I own one stihl, a 192t and think it is a good saw (not keen on those gas caps for some reason, is faster cutting than the old Echo was). I am no pro, just own acreage and I like to have a beer or two at night  and laugh at those my saw is better than your saw arguments lol

For starting out as they stated, I am sure money is crucial. Might be worth the savings while learning.


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## tree md (Sep 13, 2010)

Here's the thing, If you've never hung in a funny, painful position while making a cut at 5 PM when your body is exhausted and you just want to get finished and go home you will probably never appreciate the difference in a mediocre saw and one that zips right through the cuts. For anyone who has been in that position and cussed while their 192 or echo bogs and creeps through those cuts they definitely appreciate the ass the 200 has.

In other words, if your not a pro you'll likely never even realize the difference.


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## BaDONK (Sep 13, 2010)

tree md said:


> Here's the thing, If you've never hung in a funny, painful position while making a cut at 5 PM when your body is exhausted and you just want to get finished and go home you will probably never appreciate the difference in a mediocre saw and one that zips right through the cuts. For anyone who has been in that position and cussed while their 192 or echo bogs and creeps through those cuts they definitely appreciate the ass the 200 has.
> 
> In other words, if your not a pro you'll likely never even realize the difference.



Kinda what I was trying to get at, The guy starting this thread is probably not "pro" yet or he would not be posting in "101", and may not be able to afford it, or dropping his gold plated chainsaw lol. I understand your needs for pro. My personal idea of purchases is usually you get what you pay for, buy the best tool which you can afford because generally if you are buying it and not renting you will use it again and again. But only if you can afford it.

Kinda like driving a Cadillac living in public housing if you can't..

I am having a hard time seeing your bogging issue with these though, my echo cut slower, but ran great. My 192T is a quick little saw with a fast chain. Ran like crap and did bog like crazy when new from the Stihl dealer, brought it back for a retune, ran like crap still two days later. I pulled the limiters and opened the needles up so it was not starving. Gave the lil guy a whole lotta attitude after that. It has been running that way for 2 years now. Half the battle with chainsaws is:

1. Find a good dealer for tuning, sharpening and service.
2. Learn it yourself. Files are your friend
3. If 2 does not work, go back to 1.

Maybe you just got a lemon on your 192T because any chainsaw I own is not worth a crap if it is bogging and as pitiful as you describe these lol, it would be through the dealers front window laying on their showroom floor..

Just my 2 cents..


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## tree md (Sep 13, 2010)

BaDONK said:


> Kinda what I was trying to get at, The guy starting this thread is probably not "pro" yet or he would not be posting in "101", and may not be able to afford it, or dropping his gold plated chainsaw lol. I understand your needs for pro. My personal idea of purchases is usually you get what you pay for, buy the best tool which you can afford because generally if you are buying it and not renting you will use it again and again. But only if you can afford it.
> 
> Kinda like driving a Cadillac living in public housing if you can't..
> 
> ...



Believe me, I have been where these guys are at. When I first went out on my own back in 94 my thinking was the same; why spring for the expensive still when I could buy three cheaper saws for the price of one. Not going to mention what brand I bought because I don't want to start a big flame war but I did just that, bought three of those saws and worked myself harder than if I would have just gone ahead and bought the Stihl (020's back then).

I'm not recommending this saw because I am a chest pounder about having the biggest and baddest saw, I'm saying it because I spent years learning that it is best to go ahead and buy the best if you are doing it for a living. I was hard headed, I spent years learning that lesson.

And a 192 or an echo is going to bog in a 12-16" crotch cut no matter what you do to them. I know, I've been there and done that.

If you mostly do little #### nipper prune jobs then by all means go with a 192, hell go with a handsaw, but if you do a lot of removals you are going to want the 200. It is going to save you time and energy which in the long run adds up to money. There is a reason most of the seasoned guys around here recommend the 200.

I can't speak on the top handled huskys because I haven't run them.


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## tree md (Sep 13, 2010)

And as far as money goes... A decent removal will run at least around $600. That's one tree for one saw... You guys can do the math...


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## AmericanLawn (Sep 24, 2010)

*200t*

After being pleasantly surprised with the 361, I took the advice of several folks (and tree md) to heart and got the 200T. Box stock, all I can say is, "Wow." This little saw has it. Being in the '101' class here may mean that I'm driving a proverbial Cadillac and have more saw than is necessary while learning the ropes. However, I think this is one instance where I actually got what I paid for...if I do my part there is no bogging down and it zips through everything. If it lasts for years with care and maintenance, bonus. Went from fretful about the cost to content with two uses. +1 for the 200T.


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