# Have you run an O41AV?



## Andrew96 (Sep 12, 2009)

Guys...I've managed to resurrect my Dad's 041av with the help from all of your posts. So much so...I've never even posted yet...no need. I found answers to all of my questions with searches. I used to think my Dad was crazy watching him cutting trees with a hand made Mill back in the 80s. I've been milling hardwoods up to 20" diameter with this setup this past summer (old but rebuilt 041, custom mill) and am having way too much fun. So much fun in fact that I think I need to consider another power head for when I wear this old saw out. I'm pleased with the speed at which I can cut, but was hoping someone who has cut 16" - 20" hardwood with this family of saw..might be able to tell me if this is slow...medium..or quick cutting? I have no reference as I've never used a bigger one in a mill. Would I be happy with a similar sized new(er) saw, or would I *really* be happy with something with more displacement. At present, I don't think I'd find any hardwood much larger than the 20" mark...but who knows. 
So....is this an underpowered saw for what I've been doing? Without getting into brand loyality..model suggestions for my application?


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## mtngun (Sep 12, 2009)

The 041 is 61cc, if I remember correctly. No 60cc class saw is seriously considered a milling saw. Sure, I've freehand milled with a 33cc homelite when I didn't know any better, but once you have tasted the power of a bigger saw, there's no going back.

I ran my neighbor's cherry 041 for about 60 seconds, so I'm not exactly an authority, but I have a general idea what they are about.

We were running the neighbor's 041 and my Efco CS62 (62cc) side by side, and swapping saws. Both had sharp full chisel chains (Bailey's 0.325 on the Efco, Stihl 3/8" on the 041). The Efco would easily outcut the 041. 

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the 041 is a dog compared to modern pro-quality saws. It's heavier and it revs slower. Supposedly it has more low end grunt than modern saws, but you always mill at full throttle, so who cares about part throttle ? If you enjoy playing with the 041 because it reminds you of the good times you had with your dad, that's fine, but don't kid yourself about the performance.

I mill softwood in the 18" - 24" range, and wish my 066 had more power. If you can afford a 90+cc saw for milling, it would definitely outshine the 041. You won't go wrong with a decent used Stihl 066/660 or Husky 395. Nothing against the other brands except for parts availability. Lots of aftermarket parts available for the 660.


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## BobL (Sep 12, 2009)

One limitation to milling speed with saws like the 041 is the low (7000) max rpm, so just going to a more modern saw with say 12000 rpm will make a difference. Like Mtgun says, the 041 does make up for this to some extent by better torque which is important because better torque means the saw will keep cutting and won't bog down as easily. However, a milling saw should be setup to run as close as possible to max rpm and if this is not happening the set up needs to be looked at. One advantage of a well looked after 041 is it will last a lot longer that modern saws and weight is far less of an issue for milling so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

As for increasing power or ccs to increase cutting speed, this too has its limitations and improvements are rarely proportional to power let alone cc increases.

For example, assuming the same setup (bar and chain) on a 20" softwood log, some people think that increasing the capacity of the powerhead from 90 to 120 cc (a 33% increase) will result in a major increase in cutting speed. But the increase in power is not proportional. A 120 cc saw being about 8.5 HP and a 90 cc being about 7 HP, this is only a 20% increase. But there is much more still to consider because chain speed is critical in determining cutting speed. For modern saws the max rpms for these two saws will be very similar so there is no increase in chain speed and just pushing the saw harder will not be enough to increase cutting speed by 20%. One reason for this is, for 20" logs, if the bar chain-setup is correct, the chain should already maxed out in terms of chip generation and sawdust clearing capacity so adding more power will not give a major increase in cutting speed. With a bigger power head one can run bigger chains and drop raker heights significantly , which is what Lucas millers can do (like down to 0.06") but it does lead to correspondingly rougher finishes.

Where the bigger saws do come into their own is when the logs get wider and harder but there are plenty of people around that mill small logs with small saws. I still occasionally mill small logs with my 50 cc homelite with an 050 low profile chain mainly because I want to reduce sawdust losses in small logs. The reality is that CS milling has many limitations and is why BS milling is superior and preferred by professional millers.


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## Brmorgan (Sep 13, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> I've been milling hardwoods up to 20" diameter with this setup this past summer (old but rebuilt 041, custom mill) and am having way too much fun. So much fun in fact that I think I need to consider another power head for when I wear this old saw out.



Good luck wearing one out... 041s are one of the most bomb-proof saws ever made. Keep good mix in it & a good, clean air filter along with regular maintenance and it should still be running for your grandkids. As noted, not the fastest or lightest saw out there, but the advantage it does have is enough bottom-end torque that it _could_ pull a 28" chain if it had to and just keep chugging along, whereas a modern (stock) high-revving 60-cc saw would be useless with such a setup. The advantage of having a lot of low-RPM torque is not that it will cut well at partial throttle; rather that it can be worked a lot harder (e.g. pull a longer chain in harder wood) at wide-open without bogging out & stalling the chain completely. This is what porting or muffler modding a saw does - you end up sacrificing a bit (or a lot) of fuel efficiency in return for both higher RPMs and a much broader torque band.

I have both a vanilla 041AV and also an 041AV Super @ 72cc. Significantly more grunt and a much throatier sound. It's a sleeper though and has turned a couple heads out cutting firewood - I still haven't switched the model tag to a Super since upgrading it.

Here it is at idle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrhusFkmsQg

And cutting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_kbkGGa24
For some reason embedding isn't working right now.

That's with a ridiculous 20" .325/9-pin chain which didn't cut very well but was all I had lying around at the time. I should make another video at the same log with a different setup - I have either 3/8 25" skip, or .404 28" full-comp (from the 660). Thinking of trying the latter just for kicks. I should note that I have used the 041 (non-Super) with this 20" .325 setup for ripping boards from 6" - 8" cants, and it did a fine job with that. Not as fast as I can do with the saws I have now, but it worked well at the time. Until one of the screws that secure the fuel tank to the case vibrated loose and the resulting movement broke a couple bolt eyes off the tank. :censored:

You didn't mention what size of bar and what type of chain you're using. If you're running a 24" mill for that ~20" hardwood, then I'd recommend a 26 - 28" bar running either 3/8" .050 low-profile milling chain for a smoother finish, or a skip chisel chain filed at about 15° for a slightly rougher finish but possibly a faster cut. It's hard to say which type of chain would win for speed without trying each first though.

Also, just want to make sure you don't misunderstand Bob and actually drop your rakers to .060" - that would be disastrous for a saw this size, not to mention dangerous.


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## mtngun (Sep 13, 2009)

BobL said:


> For example, assuming the same setup (bar and chain) on a 20" softwood log, some people think that increasing the capacity of the powerhead from 90 to 120 cc (a 33% increase) will result in a major increase in cutting speed. ...... For modern saws the max rpms for these two saws will be very similar so there is no increase in chain speed .


True -- if the saw has enough grunt to maintain those max rpms while milling. 

When I said I wished my 066 had more power, I meant that it starts to drop rpms as the logs approach 24". It's not so bad that it completely bogs down, but it does slow noticeably and I have to start being careful with the feed rate to maintain decent revs. It would be nice to have enough power to keep the revs up without a lot of finesse. 

Anyway, Andrew, your 041 is a nice 30 year old saw to have around for nostalgic reasons and perhaps as a backup firewood saw, but if you are serious about milling, there are far better choices.


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## Brmorgan (Sep 13, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Anyway, Andrew, your 041 is a nice 30 year old saw to have around for nostalgic reasons and perhaps as a backup firewood saw, but if you are serious about milling, there are far better choices.



True. Now if he could find an 051, he'd be in business!


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## mtngun (Sep 13, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> it does have is enough bottom-end torque that it _could_ pull a 28" chain if it had to and just keep chugging along, whereas a modern (stock) high-revving 60-cc saw would be useless with such a setup.



My neighbor's 041 was set up with a 25" bar. It would indeed chug along. Chug, chug, chug. Sloooooow. 

Bucking the same douglas fir, the 041 was easier to bog down than my high-revving CS62.

Speaking of chug, chug, chug, I will say that an 041 sounds very cool at idle.


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## Mike Van (Sep 13, 2009)

I bought mine new in '72 - I've lost track of the chains I sharpened away to nothing on it. Stihl making chips after all these years.


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## Andrew96 (Sep 13, 2009)

Guys, Now this is the info I wanted. I cannot reply to everyone individually..however. Yes..this saw gives me some good time feelings. The sounds of the woods with my dad and me...its great. However, setting up the old mill on the old saw was to see if I liked this CSM thing. I do. It's not like I'd ever get rid of the 041 but wanted a feel for it's performance. Though I knew it was 60cc...I didn't know it was only a 7K rpm machine. I do know and understand the relationship between chain speed, depth of cut (raker), length of cut (# of cutters per tree width) and cutter geometry. You still need some power to pull all that though. You can do some tricks with skip chains, cutter geometry etc but chain speed and depth of cut/# of cuts is the key to feed rate. I knew newer saws ran at a higher rpm...I just didn't think the old 041 ran at 7. I figured..maybe 9-10K. 
OK, don't laugh. I have a lot of bar. The old mill is a bolt through the bar type (drill the bar). It's 20" between the threaded rods. I needed at least a 24" bar (ish) to keep the drilled hole away from the roller tip. When I went to my local dealer to discuss bar options with my tape, they produced a 28" that wasn't in their inventory system. It had been hanging on the wall for at least 10 years they said. $30 worth of negotiating purchased the brand new but too long a bar. I couldn't walk away from that...even with a more expensive chain. I figured I would be fine as I wasn't going to be able to ever sink that bar in more than the 20" mill could fit. I'd never buck with it for fear of cutting to china. At least I think it's a 28". You guys will know...it takes a 105 link chain length. Anyway, it's HUGE. The intent was to give this a go and then get a proper head to power the mill/make a new mill. I just didn't know if the 60cc machine was even close. As I can see from everyone comments...it's just a baby for this job. I can only say then that running a sharp 33RS x 105 link chain will allow the poor old saw to actually cut. It cuts clean, smooth and will produce good chips at WFO. And here I thought it was cutting at an OK feed rate. About 10 years ago a newer saw was purchased and this 041 became the spare. I think the replacement is about the same displacement. It's not mine though...no way I could mill with Dads newer saw. So... I need to step into the 90cc family at a minimum. Or rather get out of the 60s in the both saw design, and displacement. 
Oh...the 041 has been very well cared for. My rebuild went from crank seals all the way to piston and rings, total clean out of everything. Runs sweet...for an antique. Sure glad to hear it will always be around.


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## Andrew96 (Sep 13, 2009)

This 041 has always had a 20" bar on it. Well...for as long as I can remember. I still have the box with many filed away chains and worn out bars a few rings and a piston or two. Maybe the fresh top ends, clean air filters, sharp cutters has given us decent performance over the years. Any saw I've ever raced has been some little baby one..no contest...even with the antique that this is. I'm pretty sure the raker jig I made is for 0.020" depth but it might be 0.025". I never changed that depth of bite. It seemed to be happy pulling the 20" bar at 20 thou bites. I don't think I've ever had it in softwood. Not that I can remember. 
So...I'm not the kind of guy to run to a dealer and buy a brand new saw. I might have too if I'm after a big one...less popular (I'd only buy something where I can see it..have a look inside if it's questionable). However, If I'm after a bigger one, that's not brand new...a stihl...what models should I look for? I'd go bigger rather than newer. A 066 seems to be an old 660. Have the 880s changed much over the years? When did 088s become 880s? Clearly, I'm sure there are many posts about these two saws but I haven't done a search yet. Do these larger heads still run at a high rpm?


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## Andrew96 (Sep 13, 2009)

BobL said:


> With a bigger power head one can run bigger chains and drop raker heights significantly , which is what Lucas millers can do (like down to 0.06") but it does lead to correspondingly rougher finishes.



Bob....Why is a heavier cut called a lucas Miller? Can you explain?


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## lumberjackchef (Sep 13, 2009)

I can attest to the fact that what these guys are saying about a higher reving saws of this same 60cc range and how they are not suitable for milling. My first experiment with milling was a homade alaskan style mill and a Husky 61. 


I put a 28" bar on it and abused that little saw in no time with even the small 12-18 hardwoods that I tried it out on. Couldn't keep any rpms in the wood and had a very slow feed rate. Granted It was all part of the learning curve. From the way it sounds your little 041 does a much better job than my husky did. If you already feel comfortable rebuilding saws then find an old 066 or 088, rebuild and modify(plenty to learn about in threads around here) it from the bottom up like you did this saw and you will be pleasantly surprised at the difference. That's what I ended up doing and have rebuilt 3 066's since. They are great milling saws especially when modded. I have run it with a friends 48" alaskan mill in some 40+" oak logs and it did a great job. And it does make quick work of the smaller stuff. Here a pic of my latest setup. I just built this mill a little while back. I have only used it a couple times now but it works great.

Thanks for sharing and its good to hear you're having fun cause that's what its all about. Happy Milling!


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## Brmorgan (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm _pretty sure_ that an 041 is turning a bit more than 7K wide-open. At least mine certainly sounds and acts like it is. Even my 090 turns ~8500 RPM.


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## BobL (Sep 13, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> I'm _pretty sure_ that an 041 is turning a bit more than 7K wide-open. At least mine certainly sounds and acts like it is. Even my 090 turns ~8500 RPM.



The 041 has max power at 7k rpm, Max advertized power for the original 090 is only 6500 rpm, I'm not sure what it is for the current 090s. Both saws will rev higher but the power drops off. With a small saw like the 041 the power drops quicker so max cutting speed is achieved at at max power. With the 090 it doesn't matter anywhere near as much.

RE:Bob....Why is a heavier cut called a lucas Miller? Can you explain?

Lucas mills use a V-twin 14 - 30 HP engine with a lot more torque than chainsaw power heads so when using their slabbing attachment the raker depths can be dropped correspondingly. Cut finish will correspondingly be rougher. Even on a big chain saw the rakers can be dropped a long way for milling. For example Will Malloff in Chainsaw Lumber uses an 090 and recommends 0.045" bit as BMorgan says do not try this with new chain on a 60cc saw. I use a progressive raker depth so as the chain wears and the cutter gullet opens up I drop the raker height even more. Rather that repeat myself check out this post.


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## Andrew96 (Sep 14, 2009)

Bob...thanks for directing me to information regarding rakers...10-1 etc and explaining the millar as a type of mill. As I'm quite anal too...I'm going to go and do some measuring now to see if my current raker depth gauge compensates properly for my shorter cutters and still provide a 6 deg cut. I don't use a FOP. The profile of my rakers might produce the vibration I get with a used chain as I've always just left them flat topped. I never knew a chain porpoised during the cut. I've been using various guides to sharpen after a few maintenance sharpenings by hand, just to make sure my geometry has stayed correct. Time to revisit rakers though and make a calculation...see how it goes. 
Through various searches and reading many posts...I found a carlton manual outlining proper chain sharpening. Should be required reading prior to gassing up. This is the first documentation I've found that is clear regarding rakers and older chain. My Dad just taught me to tune the rakers based on how it cut, by hand...by feel. Measurements work better for repeatablility.


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## Andrew96 (Sep 14, 2009)

I feel I've taken so much from this forum, I should put something back in. Attached is a photo of the old 041AV on the old mill. It's about to be retired now while I locate a bigger saw for use milling (my wife just loves you guys). The saw is in original condition paint wise. It will always be the first saw I ever cut with...along with the first saw I ever milled with. It just needs a good clean up, put the proper sized bar on it, and let it run occasionally. Though not as fancy as what you guys run, the mill works for me...and got me hooked.


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## Nethercutt (Sep 17, 2009)

I just finished cleaning up, replacing a few parts, and tuning a 041AV, and put it up for sale on Craigslist. 

Throughout the process, I found a few annoyances and design flaws with the saw: 

- the plug is difficult to remove (the scrench gets caught up on the handle).
- the plug/wire is RIGHT in the way of getting stepped on when you start it on the ground.
- the AV model is vulnerable to strange throttle operation: they attached the carb to the main powerhead part, but the throttle trigger to the anti-vibration isolated handle. That means when you push down on the front handle bar, the throttle opens up, and when you pull up on the front handle, the throttle closes down. Usually not a big deal when sawing, because you're at WOT, but when at idle, this means that that pushing down on the front handle speeds the saw up, and gets the chain moving.
- there is a plastic plate, a spacer, AND a heat shield between the cylinder jug and the carb. That means 4 face-to-face gaskets between the carb and the intake port! Plan to have a air leak introduced at least once in the saw's life.
- the low-idle throttle stop adjustment screw is prone to self-adjust, and needs lock-tite to keep it in the right spot.

With all that said, once I got it running and tuned and started cutting, I have to admit that for whatever reason I fell in love with it. I've got a 25" bar on the thing and the saw ripped through a nice think oak with no problem. It's definately a different experience sawing with the 041 than with my 361.

Throughout the fix-up process, I really thought I'd be glad to get rid of the saw. In the end, I think I'm going to be sad to see it go!


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## gr8scott72 (Sep 17, 2009)

Nethercutt said:


> I just finished cleaning up, replacing a few parts, and tuning a 041AV, and put it up for sale on Craigslist.
> 
> Throughout the process, I found a few annoyances and design flaws with the saw:
> 
> ...



If you want the most money for it, put it on ebay, not cl.


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## Nethercutt (Sep 17, 2009)

For some reason, I don't like selling on Ebay. Maybe because they charge so many fees now... 
And I like to run the saw with the new owner and see that they are happy with it before they buy it. I hate to sell something, and find out they are unhappy later.


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## 3.7 (Sep 28, 2009)

Hey all,

I have to say I really love my 041AV it seems fast enough for the firewood cutting I do, so I really have no complaints there. I got this off craiglist a month ago, I paid $125 for it which I thought was a great deal, but I realize, thats pretty much what they cost... 

It was very dirty but it started up and ran just fine, and it sounded really good at full throttle so I couldnt walk away from it.

I put it in wood and it just bogged down, I was disappointed, but I cleaned it up, adjusted the carb to stock settings and put a new spark plug in it and it cut through the same wood without any effort at all. For a 30 year old saw it looks like it will go another 30.

Also I love being able to go to the Stihl dealers around where I live and get misc. parts for it. Im going to put a 20" bar on it in preparation for a big Cherrywood tree that needs to come down, ants pretty much are eating it up and its falling apart a piece at a time, the thing looks like it will come down this winter and I would rather get a head start on clearing it away as its in my front lawn and I dont want to look at a fallen tree all winter long.

It still has some issues but it should be fun to fix up a piece at a time.


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## Brushwacker (Oct 3, 2009)

041 is no dog in my book even compared to the new saws.
Vibes seem to lossen screws more then most saws( so use some loctite and check em now and then ) and the 041 without AV has very uncomfortable vibes. I had 1 for years and I usually ran the big old Homelites more. But here in the last several years I have several to many saws at a time since I incorperated selling used saws with selling firewood. Now when I get an 041 AV it is a hard saw to let go. They feel great cutting firewood. I don't imagine my feet move fast enough to go any faster through small to medium wood and the 041 when properly tuned and maintained powers through some fairly good size wood at a very reasonable pace and cuts alot of wood on 1 tank of gas. I have rotated back and forth with an 044 and never felt handicapped with the 041 AV. I'm sure bigger is better for milling,but general all around cutting I think it shines.


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## mcb (Jan 18, 2010)

my first saw was a "rebuilt" ms290 farmboss (junk, pain to work on) that had a vaccuum leak at the cylinder base and killed itself about an hour into the job i bought it for, so i grabbed an 041AV for $50 locally from craigslist to get by until i could fix the 290. my best friends dead stock, hardly sharp jonsered 2155 (52cc) that i now own beat the pants off that 041, and not by a small amount. i mean hes on his 3rd cut when im finishing my first. the jonsky is all revs and can't be leaned on, but in comparison, the 041 is a painfully slow saw, torquey or not. it'll do the same job, if youve got all day to listen to it bumble along at what sounds like an idle for the other saw. 

think lawntractor vs KX80 in a dragrace. sure, the KX80 cant pull around a trailer, but you dont pull trailers in a dragrace, do ya? if the job calls for a 28"+ bar, im not gassing up my 60cc saw no matter how fast it revs. the 041 is a cool relic to give your old man for fathers day or keep in the toolbox of your wheeling truck. its never been the right tool for the job in my experience.


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## Brmorgan (Jan 18, 2010)

I dunno, you sure you have your 041 tuned properly? Mine's no slouch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa6UOs7lI-4


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## Brushwacker (Jan 18, 2010)

mcb said:


> my first saw was a "rebuilt" ms290 farmboss (junk, pain to work on) that had a vaccuum leak at the cylinder base and killed itself about an hour into the job i bought it for, so i grabbed an 041AV for $50 locally from craigslist to get by until i could fix the 290. my best friends dead stock, hardly sharp jonsered 2155 (52cc) that i now own beat the pants off that 041, and not by a small amount. i mean hes on his 3rd cut when im finishing my first. the jonsky is all revs and can't be leaned on, but in comparison, the 041 is a painfully slow saw, torquey or not. it'll do the same job, if youve got all day to listen to it bumble along at what sounds like an idle for the other saw.
> 
> think lawntractor vs KX80 in a dragrace. sure, the KX80 cant pull around a trailer, but you dont pull trailers in a dragrace, do ya? if the job calls for a 28"+ bar, im not gassing up my 60cc saw no matter how fast it revs. the 041 is a cool relic to give your old man for fathers day or keep in the toolbox of your wheeling truck. its never been the right tool for the job in my experience.



A $50 041 a quarter century old likely had issues enough it wasn't working normal. If your ms 290 had a significant vacume leak, enough it killed it and you didn't notice it in time to quit using it and fix it you probably at the time didn't realize the 041 wasn't running right either. 
Have you run or do you even know how a properly tuned 041 runs ? I've run well over a few very many days. Cutting 10" wood and smaller a good 52 cc saw may beat it but not come close to double it tuned and sharpened equally. Put a 20" bar on both saws equally tuned and cut firewood blocks 20" to 30" in diameter for about 5 hours and I wouldn't be surprised to see the 041 cut 2 times the wood.
I don't mean to offend you but it sounds to me you don't have very much chainsaw experiance. About 5 years ago the biggest firewood dealer I know in northwest IN was still using 041's. Thats the last time I seen his saws. Wouldn't be surprised if he still is. My experiance the 041AV is a great all round firewood saw for what I cut here in IN. Sure there are better but if you don't want to spend the money for newer, a well maintained 041 AV does a great job.


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## Andrew96 (Jan 19, 2010)

Ya, I agree. Mine pulls a long bar...cuts just great. It's missing high rpms like newer saws...weighs more than new ones but still goes great. It's great for what it is...a good old saw that stood the test of time..and still beats many others in large enough trees to count.


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## mcb (Jan 20, 2010)

no offense taken fellas, i can see how burning up my first saw makes me sound inept. that particular day was a rush to do a critical job, not fiddle with saws. anyone who thinks pulling a cylinder on the 290 is a tailgate repair hasnt tried it yet. either way, i caught the sucking sound early enough to shut it down and save the cylinder. its been repaired/modded and rips now.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1287304#post1287304

ive noticed that the people who fight over how great their old relics are, tend to be antique themselves. sure, it'll cut wood. so will a hatchet or two man bucksaw. that doesnt make them the right tool for every job under every circumstance. if your mortgage is paid, the kids have left the nest and you are looking for relaxing ways to enjoy your free time, buy an 041 and fart around, they are perfect for that.

if you send me up that heavy, sluggish 041 when ive been dangling by my nutsack for 6 hours with my back, feet and hips on fire.. well it better be the last saw in the truck that still runs or im gonna throw it at you. do i know how an 041 should run? no, not really. what i do know is that when you got employees standing around on the clock, rental minutes ticking by and equipment on the ground burning up $3/gal diesel waiting for the next piece you lower down, well that damn saw better spray a hail of wood bullets the instant you pull the trigger or you wont have your equipment long. 

as for your firewood buddy in indiana who still runs 041s.. sounds like he's got time on his hands. try that out here in massachusetts where business zoning is sold by the square foot, timberland is nearly extinct, wages are high and competition is fierce. because an 041 runs as good today as it did 40 years ago speaks of its durability, not performance. a 7k rpm saw just isnt going to keep pace with a comparable 12k rpm saw any more than a sportster will keep up with 200mph sportbikes. 

its likely mine was tuned poorly, the saw is apart right now for a hop up and half-ass restoration before i give it to pops. i'll let you know the outcome. :greenchainsaw:


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## mcb (Jan 20, 2010)

btw.. i loaned my father the 041 for a while when it was together. he was amazed. then i let him try my 395. he got over the 041 pretty fast. 

the point is, one's definition of "pulls a long bar, cuts just great" is relative to what youve got sitting under the work bench.


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## Andrew96 (Jan 20, 2010)

Well MCB...my 041 was originally purchased by my Dad. It's 'always' been around and I would think...been in the truck for almost every cutting project since it was brought home new. It still looks great..runs great...what should do? Leave it at home...give it away to someone? Nope...it goes in the truck as a good spare since I've been known to pinch a saw now and then. I'm not using it for 'work', where time is money. My milling is for fun....more time..more fun. 
I'm not trying to fool anyone as to it's performance. My only real comparison is a 660 (weighs less) and a 360. The 041 won't out cut anything I have (since I won't hold onto it that long) however...it fits into my 2 + 1 saw plan. It's great to knock bumps off a log before milling...etc. It sits with a 28" bar on it most of the time but also gets the crappy 20" rock bar on it when things look bad. Since I already have one...and I think it's pretty good...it will continue to go out on trips. It might get fueled up.


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## mcb (Jan 20, 2010)

hey i hear ya, exact same reason ive still got mine. i leave it in the toolbox and never cry about it getting rubbed raw from banging around. someone gave me the 015 which is a little more compact and now that goes in the toolbox.. the 'any saw will do' saw.


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## Brmorgan (Jan 20, 2010)

mcb said:


> no offense taken fellas, i can see how burning up my first saw makes me sound inept. that particular day was a rush to do a critical job, not fiddle with saws. anyone who thinks pulling a cylinder on the 290 is a tailgate repair hasnt tried it yet. either way, i caught the sucking sound early enough to shut it down and save the cylinder. its been repaired/modded and rips now.
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1287304#post1287304



Burning up a saw doesn't make you inept at all, especially since the new ones are so choked down and tuned lean to conform to emissions specs AND the fact that we're having to use fuels that two-stroke engines were not designed to burn. I have yet to kill a saw yet myself, but it's only a matter of time - I have more than a couple to choose from, so most of them don't see that many hours' use. 



> ive noticed that the people who fight over how great their old relics are, tend to be antique themselves. sure, it'll cut wood. so will a hatchet or two man bucksaw. that doesnt make them the right tool for every job under every circumstance. if your mortgage is paid, the kids have left the nest and you are looking for relaxing ways to enjoy your free time, buy an 041 and fart around, they are perfect for that.


Hm, I love my 041s and I'm only 27... I feel old sometimes tho. _Working on_ an 041 might be relaxing; working _with_ one, hardly so! I'm not, nor do I think anybody else would be, arguing that they're on par with today's saws and/or would be preferable to do any significant amount of work with. It would be foolish to choose to use a heavier and rougher-handling saw unless necessary. I'm just saying that they're not the dogs you're making them out to be.



> if you send me up that heavy, sluggish 041 when ive been dangling by my nutsack for 6 hours with my back, feet and hips on fire.. well it better be the last saw in the truck that still runs or im gonna throw it at you. do i know how an 041 should run? no, not really. what i do know is that when you got employees standing around on the clock, rental minutes ticking by and equipment on the ground burning up $3/gal diesel waiting for the next piece you lower down, well that damn saw better spray a hail of wood bullets the instant you pull the trigger or you wont have your equipment long.
> 
> as for your firewood buddy in indiana who still runs 041s.. sounds like he's got time on his hands. try that out here in massachusetts where business zoning is sold by the square foot, timberland is nearly extinct, wages are high and competition is fierce. because an 041 runs as good today as it did 40 years ago speaks of its durability, not performance. a 7k rpm saw just isnt going to keep pace with a comparable 12k rpm saw any more than a sportster will keep up with 200mph sportbikes.



LOL no I'd hope you wouldn't be trying to climb with an 041! But there are myriad other saws equally ill-equipped for climbing work. It's not a valid benchmark to use to decide whether a saw is good or not in general.

I'm not sure how your zoning and population density statements relate to being productive with an 041 as a firewood saw... But if said person is getting the job done with that saw and it's meeting his needs and is reliable, why go out and spend $750 or more on a new equivalent saw?

Also, how much you get done with an older saw is all in how you cut. If you like to just let a saw fall through or feed itself through the wood, then you're going to be disappointed because of the slower chain speed. But if you like to really dog in and take advantage of the extra torque available, they can cut surprisingly quickly. Also, my 041 will pull a 28" chain if need be and just keep going; try that with an 036 sometime and let me know how it goes.



mcb said:


> btw.. i loaned my father the 041 for a while when it was together. he was amazed. then i let him try my 395. he got over the 041 pretty fast.
> 
> the point is, one's definition of "pulls a long bar, cuts just great" is relative to what youve got sitting under the work bench.



Well, I guess so! Comparing 61cc to 95cc is like night and day no matter what saws you're talking about. You could compare a new 361 and an old 056 Mag II just to do it opposite and come up with the same result. Using a 395 to do smaller work that an 041 is suited for is just foolish, as is the reverse.



When I got my first busted-up 041AV last summer, I thought it was a bit of a dog too. But after a thorough going-over and tuneup, it improved a lot. And the non-AV I just finished a few weeks ago (the one in the video I linked to above) really surprised me; its cut times were right where I would expect a modern 60cc saw to be, based on the cut times of my 50cc and 71cc Huskies.


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## 3.7 (Jan 21, 2010)

Brmorgan said:


> Hm, I love my 041s and I'm only 27... I feel old sometimes tho.



There is something to be said about using equipment that is OLDER than you are.

I like the 041's myself being 31, I like it because its simple, cheap and does what I need it to do, which is RARELY cut wood, honestly from what little chainsaw experience I have (which is part of his point) I think the 041 could make a great work saw, having said that, if I were to be presented with an expensive saw that really rips I probably wouldnt want to pick up the 041 again, but ignorance is bliss, and as far as I know it does the job I need it to do in a respectable amount of time and I am not in a race to do any of the landscaping that I use the saw on.

Basically my purpose for buying the 041 was that I needed something cheap, reliable, and serviceable, and amazingly enough I can still get parts for this thing locally.


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## Brushwacker (Jan 21, 2010)

mcb said:


> no offense taken fellas, i can see how burning up my first saw makes me sound inept. that particular day was a rush to do a critical job, not fiddle with saws. anyone who thinks pulling a cylinder on the 290 is a tailgate repair hasnt tried it yet. either way, i caught the sucking sound early enough to shut it down and save the cylinder. its been repaired/modded and rips now.
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1287304#post1287304
> 
> ive noticed that the people who fight over how great their old relics are, tend to be antique themselves. sure, it'll cut wood. so will a hatchet or two man bucksaw. that doesnt make them the right tool for every job under every circumstance. if your mortgage is paid, the kids have left the nest and you are looking for relaxing ways to enjoy your free time, buy an 041 and fart around, they are perfect for that.
> ...



Nobody here said an 041 is a climbers saw or that it is greater then new saws. The last few years I've spent plenty of hours behind new or recently new huskies and stihls a makita some efco's etc. and I have run many older saws side by side or the same day or week for hours at a time. A properly tuned and maintained 041 AV is far from a slow cutting slouch in average wood . It will make a man money and if your business is small it will do a much higher $'s saw work without the higher $ investment in a reasonable amount of time. An older cheaper saw has advantages. I lost my first O66 mag in a felling accident cutting a ditchbank tree. Almost a total loss , the saw got pinched and the butt of the trunk slipped off the stump while the tree was still upright and it slid down the ditchbank about 8' smashing the powerhead between the ice and butt of the tree. When your grossing about 5 to $8000 dollars cutting firewood losing a $1000 saw isn't a profitable thing. Now I often grab a lesser saw for felling difficult trees I feel are more of a risk to my saw, then when its down I use the 660 if the tree is big enough to gain time using it. Theives are less likely to target your equipment if its older also and if they do your out less.
[QUOTE=mcb;1973714] ive noticed that the people who fight over how great their old relics are, tend to be antique themselves.
Does Junior know best ? I don't even have an 041 in my work lineup presently, but I do know the differance between them and the new saws. My most used saws the last few months are an 044, 034, and an ms660. I have a couple 026's I use once in a while and an Dolmar 105 tophandle and an efco 165. Have a few other running saws besides I use for testing parts and or resale. I work some for a freind with his Huskies. A 372,385,346 and a tophandle. 
The last 041 I run much I had the same time I got my 044. I liked the 044 better mainly its power to weight ratio and handling characteristics. To go out and buck 10 to 20" wood for an hour I doubt I would get 10 % more wood cut with the 044 though. Really I am anxious to fix the old 041 in my shop so I have something to fart around with while I 'm out cutting wood now that its been mentioned.
MCB, IMO a really great relic saw for you would be a well maintained and tuned 034. You would probably give the 290 away .


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