# How to drop a leaning tree?



## LAndrews (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi - we've got a lot of leaning trees near me and most are in places where it's really important to drop them away from the power lines they're leaning towards. 

I've been able to get some to go 'sideways' by carefully cutting at a bit of an angle relative to the notch, but had one split and go straight down by gravity recently. My method could be explained as having a tree leaning north and want the tree to fall west. Notch is made pointing west and backcut is made in the wsw direction. Thought is to leave some extra meat on the hinge along the side under tension. 

Is there a better (safer) way? I'm reluctant to climb a tree near powerlines...and am trying to keep the trees out of the lines in the first place. 

(Yes, it would be much better if the guys clearing trees for the electric company would help...but they don't)


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## rarefish383 (Apr 18, 2010)

Without pics it's hard to say. The one thing I always do, even if the tree is leaning the way I want it to go, is put a pull line in it. Even if you have to put a small 16 to 20 foot ladder on the tree to get your pull line as high as possible, do it. Then you can tie off to a truck, tractor or another tree and you "Might" be able to over come a little gravity, Joe.


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## canopyboy (Apr 18, 2010)

+1 on a pull line. The bigger the tree and the lean, the higher you should tie it. 

However, whenever power lines are in the equation, use caution. Hire someone who's qualified if you have any doubts at all. The consequences of something going wrong are about as bad as it gets.


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## lone wolf (Apr 18, 2010)

if you have to ask you should not be messing with something that can and will kill you instantly.get some good help.


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## LAndrews (Apr 19, 2010)

Thanks guys! I'm not too serious about these trees and I think LW's advice is right on. It's just really frustrating when the tree guys keep ignoring something that's obviously going to fall down on the lines eventually - and there's a lot of gorgeous hardwood in there.


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## gwiley (Apr 19, 2010)

*throw line to set pull line*

When setting a pull line use a throwline not a ladder. You can get a line+weight from Baileys for under $20 - you will be amazed at how high up you can place your pull line with one of these.

I keep an extra set of line+weight to deal with badly caught weights.


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## tree md (Apr 19, 2010)

Use caution if you decide to try to use a throw line near lines. You need to make sure you are proficient at setting one and there is no chance of getting into the lines. A light weight throw line can even be blown into the lines if they are close enough.

I'd go with either waiting on the power Co. guys or hiring the work out. As has been mentioned, the consequences can be as bad as it gets around power lines. I have been doing this work 20 years and electricity even gives me the heebee Jeebees.


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## gwiley (Apr 20, 2010)

tree md said:


> Use caution if you decide to try to use a throw line near lines. You need to make sure you are proficient at setting one and there is no chance of getting into the lines. A light weight throw line can even be blown into the lines if they are close enough.
> 
> I'd go with either waiting on the power Co. guys or hiring the work out. As has been mentioned, the consequences can be as bad as it gets around power lines. I have been doing this work 20 years and electricity even gives me the heebee Jeebees.



I agree. I hope I didn't sound as though I was suggesting he go ahead with this - need to wait on the power company on this one. I was offering some advice on throw lines in general.


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## Cowboy Billy (Apr 20, 2010)

Around here they need permission from the property owner to do more than trim a tree. The best thing to do would be to talk to the foreman or superintendent of the trimming guys. And see if he will come out and meet you and see the site and mark any hazard tree he willing to cut down.

Billy


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## Greenthorn (Apr 20, 2010)

Local guy around here was doing the same thing, fortunately he was not killed when he landed his "leaner" on the wires, but ensuing damage was three transformers and snapped power line, total cost was over 8,000 bucks.....he had to pay!


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## PaulPollard (Apr 20, 2010)

Yeah, and once you get a rope in it's no guarantee if it has a bad lean. You can use a come along and another tree trunk as a base to ratchet the things right back if they are small enough.

That stuff is dangerous so like someone else said, also just guessing without a picture.

The only other way is to climb them and it's usually not fun but if they are hardwoods how hard can that be?

I would just charge accordingly and forget fancy felling cuts on big learners, that is a recipe for something to go wrong even with ropes. It's also easy to forget your working around power lines when in a tree so...


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## Bigus Termitius (Apr 21, 2010)

What is the proximity to the lines?

Coming from a line clearance foreman, our hands are often tied by one variable or another. 

Not all leaning trees pose a great enough threat to the lines to warrant removal. However it is good that you care enough, but don't care too much and get injured or killed.

Call the power company or get a hold of the guys trimming....squeaky wheel gets the grease sometimes.

You are right about leaving more "meat" on the tension side, but don't get in a hurry and take too much hinge wanting to see results. In this situation there is a time to quit cutting whether it's falling yet or not. The rope is a good idea; I sometimes use a well placed wedge. Depends.

There are so many factors to consider. It is probably best left to someone who is qualified, and does it every day. No offense.

Besides, if they screw up, they know what to do, and aren't likely to get in near the trouble over it.

Be safe.


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## Grace Tree (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's a link to some felling info that may be useful.

Production Felling
Phil


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## LAndrews (Apr 21, 2010)

Again, thanks guys for the help. I completely agree with the safety advice and ain't gonna run afoul of the bureacracy - life's too short. 

This is one of those things that I look at everyday and think to myself 'a maple tree with the trunk sticking out of the ditch at about 45 degrees just ain't gonna last all that long'. Having said that, we've just gotten a good rain season and it hasn't come down any further so it might be okay. There's a madrone and some bay laurels next to it that are equally precarious and it's obvious the leaves will cross the lines when they fall - at least. 

It doesn't help that the maple trunk is clearly showing nicely quilted grain inside - that thing falls when I'm not around and I'll be lucky to get turning blanks.  One of the only good things about all the leaning trees is the beauty of the grain. 

best, la


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## Rookie1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Power Company sent contracted crew through my neighborhood the other day to trim trees along the lines that run along side the road. Im not sure I understand their policy. The trim trees the obviously need to come down. Why not just cut them down? There are plenty on property that is vacant and no homeowner would benefit from a tree removal,only the power company. Anybody work with or for power compays have any input.


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## Double_Diamond (Apr 21, 2010)

Since you are in Santa Cruz you must be dealing with PG&E. I am up near Redding with some PG&E lines on my property. There was one pine that I wanted taken down for a driveway. It had a real good lean over the lines but otherwise health. They would not remove it. Unfortunately the driveway construction resulted in 5 pines dieing the following summer. I called their 800 number and told them there were several dead trees near their lines. They sent someone out that day and flagged them for removal. One of the trees they flagged posed no danger to their lines but it was dead so they flagged it. Three of the trees were around 120' tall and needed to be climbed and pieced down. There had a 2 man crew out there for about 2 1/2 days dropping the trees. They said that PG&E takes dead trees very seriously.


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## Bigus Termitius (Apr 21, 2010)

Rookie1 said:


> Power Company sent contracted crew through my neighborhood the other day to trim trees along the lines that run along side the road. Im not sure I understand their policy. The trim trees the obviously need to come down. Why not just cut them down? There are plenty on property that is vacant and no homeowner would benefit from a tree removal,only the power company. Anybody work with or for power compays have any input.



Budget. 

I've been reined in lately by the coop. I'm big on removals and getting good clearance, but they want me to throttle back on removals a bit for awhile and cut the bare minimum. 

So instead of keeping three guys busy all the time and getting their money's worth, we are "covering ground" to the tune of one step forward and two steps back, but it all pays the same waiting for enough material to hit the ground to warrant chipping.

looks good on paper for now, and I think that is all they are after. their forester feels the same as I do, and I think he was embarrassed to tell me the news, but upper managment doesn't know a maple from an oak and they are signing the checks.

I wont be around to suffer the backlash, so I shake my head and figure I'll have more energy to study for my certs this fall.

I suppose it is the same all over.


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## NCTREE (Apr 22, 2010)

If it bothers you that bad call a real tree expert and pay up sucka! Stay away from the lines= stay alive.


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## treesquirrel (Apr 22, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> if you have to ask you should not be messing with something that can and will kill you instantly.get some good help.





Absolutely true.


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## banshee67 (Apr 22, 2010)

they hack the hell out of power lines around here
half the cuts they make pretty much guarantee the trees death within a few years.. but they just leave it sitting there, maybe so it falls on the lines int he next storm and they get called out to fix it for big bucks overtime? who knows

i remember the township coming around trimming all the trees in our NEIGHBORHOOD 2-3 years ago, they've never done this, our street is lined with oaks and maples, in a rotating pattern, all 60+ ft mature trees that were planted 25+ years ago, they finally got to the point where they almost formed a tunnel over the road, it was pretty cool, we have buried power lines, so falling on lines is not a problem. for some reason they felt the need to drive their township trucks through and HACK the hell out of everyones maple and oak trees lining the road, id say 80%+ of the people here have paid professionals to trim these rotating oak/maples on the border of their lawns, and trim them correctly. everyone has had them pruned up nicely and out of the street, well here comes the township workers with nothing else to do, and they hacked the hell out of everything. a drunk retired janitor with a saw could have done a better job. they hacked half the lower limbs in half,, just right in half.. left big holes in the canopies , everything is all uneven, looks horrible. i still have to climb up one of the oaks and fix it. these township workers are losers here.


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## PaulPollard (Apr 23, 2010)

Regarding line clearance, I've done some up here in Canada and the general rule is 3 feet of clearance around service lines and 10 feet from primaries and secondaries. Also, overhanging branches above primaries.

You also need to get the go ahead from the utility company in the form of a hold off or Do Not Re-energize order. The lines are still live but they won't automatically re-energize 3 times like they usually would with the auto-breakers. You would probably need to be a certified utility arborist or have one on staff to take on the work anyway.

If you get caught doing that sort of work without the proper paper work and something goes wrong you are going to be in a heap of trouble not to mention have a lot of angry homeowners flocking to your job site - or worse - an ambulance!

I think this is the reason only the big tree service companies land most of the line clearance contracts and the rest of the work goes to city crews or hydro crews. My own rule regarding working around hydro is just avoid it if possible, and never do it on a rainy or windy day - it's just not worth it.


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## urbanlogger52 (Apr 23, 2010)

I am a certified Utility Arborists and will say power kills for shure. in Canada it's about a 2 year apprentiship now. When we work near lines I take out an Assurance of no reclose from Hydro which prevents the lines from re energizing if something goes wrong. I can't leave the job site until the assurance of no reclose is returned and I am singed off. When pulling trees over it is best to have the line set towards the top around 1/4 to 1/3 from the top of the tree ,to low and the top can out weigh the stem below and should the tree be rotton or the holding wood fail it could get ugly.On some rotton pulls we may have a large main pull line and 1 or 2 lines to hold the tree from swinging off the pull line. Maby a utility arborists would work with you to fall the trees and leave you with the clean up. Be careful Chuck


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## Rookie1 (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks for your reply guys. Very informative.


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