# Hi, meet a female climber



## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Even though I'm new, I can still hold my own. I'm small, 5'6" and around 110 lbs, but I can carry/drag just about anything any of the guys I work with can, and I can climb pretty quickly because I weigh less. The biggest reason I could imagine that more women don't get into the tree industry is that most women don't like to be outside in the elements all the time. Personally I love being outside, it makes the day so much better. I am one of two females at my office in Springfield, and a third departed from our office last year to move closer to her boyfriend. I will admit that at first I was worried about being a woman in a mans world, but I think I'm doing fine....the guys I work with might have a different opinion, but who knows. I also know of a few other women from school (Virginia Tech) who may be interested in joining the tree care industry so let me know if any of you are thinking of diversifying your workplace!

Hope I can provide some insight!

Lauryn


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

Hello again, Lauryn!

Welcome to AS!!!


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

What do you climb with?


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Well right now I'm using a loaned Master 1, but I'm ordering all new stuff this week . I'm thinking of getting a Weaver Wideback floating D. I've used a bunch of different saddles and I'm definately keen on the wideback. What do you use?

Lauryn


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## igetbisy (Mar 2, 2004)

will you marry me?


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

We're talking about it here, I put a pic in. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13383


Heres some more noteworthy threads;

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10024&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11410&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9882&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1158&highlight=climbing+spurs


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## Base (Mar 2, 2004)

lmao igetbisy you sound just like a rock climber.........


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Funny you should link that post to mine....VTMechEng happens to be my fiance. So I'm sorry, igetbsy, I can't marry you, I'm already spoken for.

Lauryn


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

But... but... How can you resist this handsome devil???


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## igetbisy (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Base _
> *lmao igetbisy you sound just like a rock climber......... *



??????rock smoker?????

just kidding, welcome vtclimber


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## igetbisy (Mar 2, 2004)

I hope that is your saw your weilding mb


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## VTMechEng (Mar 2, 2004)

*all right*

Ok guys, no more pics of yourself to my fiance. I am the lucky one that found such a cool woman.


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## OutOnaLimb (Mar 2, 2004)

Welcome to AS. I had a girlfriend when I was in the army that went to VT. There are some pretty hard females that come from there. You wernt in the ROTC program were you? Oh and next time you guys sign on I will be sure to pass out bibs and napkins, Its gettin messy in here with all these guys droolin.

Kenn

Ya'lls mascot was a terapin right????


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

*Hokies all the way*

actually I was in the ROTC program...the Corps is great for some people, but definately not for everyone. I loved it though. Great times. And our mascot is a Hokie Bird (its basically a big maroon and orange turkey). The terrapin is Maryland's mascot.


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## igetbisy (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: all right*



> _Originally posted by VTMechEng _
> *Ok guys, no more pics of yourself to my fiance. I am the lucky one that found such a cool woman.  *



lol right on man, I'm happy for you, it's gonna be a little rough for all of the guys to hold back at first, but i'm sure you can rest assured that it's all in fun, and she's all yours, all in all, we're a bunch of pretty respectable fellas, a bunch of fellas, did i say a bunch of fellas!! it's great to see a little change in that, just remember what sort of freedom a person has on the net from around the world, it's hard to resist the urge to say things we would not dare say face to face to someone, but we do respect you and your feelings for your loved ones. please remember that..


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Don't sweat it igetbisy....he was just messing around....after all these years he knows what bugs me and what doesn't


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## Ax-man (Mar 2, 2004)

Welcome VT,

Glad to have you on board, if you work with a crew of guys I'm sure you can hold your own on this site.

I've worked with women on a few occasions, women are willing to listen and try do the work right. Guys on the other hand tend to get argumentive and bull headed on how to do things.

It will be nice to hear the female perspective on the disscussions that go on here.

Larry


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

Got any climbing pics to post, Lauryn?


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## Lumberjack (Mar 2, 2004)

Howdy and welcome. Bout time we got a female climber here.

I use the Ness work saddle, and love it (as do some others here). It has a fixed TIP, but none the less I like it. I climb DdRT and SRT, and it suits me fine, and is comfortable enough to work in all day.

I am in the running for an Army ROTC scholarship now.


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

This is from one of the first times I was up in a tree....awesome professor of mine at VT taught us how to climb as part of our urban forestry class. Great experience. Nothing too exciting to look at, but it was pretty darn cool to us.


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## SilverBlue (Mar 2, 2004)

Hi Lauryn, Welcome and congratulations for picking such a challenging career. Do you handle removals? And I am sure we would be interested in the climbing hitches you use. Would I hire a female climber? Absolutely if she is qualified and pays attention to details.
Watch out for those smooth talkers like Butch, nice guy, great climber, but he only likes the outdoors when it’s dry


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)




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## Lumberjack (Mar 2, 2004)

Now that is the best lookin pic I have seen on AS bar none.

MechEng is a lucky fellow... ever get tired of him, I am only 4 years younger than you ...


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Well Silver, I'm pretty new to all of this stuff so I haven't done too much on my own yet, but the company I work for and the people I work with are doing a great job of training me. I would like to learn how to do everything there is to do in this field and to be as proficient in all of it as I can be, but no one is perfect....not even Butch  

I first learned how to climb using a tautline hitch with a figure 8 stopper, but iI have switched to a Blake's with a stopper. I find it doesn't roll out as much as a tautline. I use a split tail, and I'm a fan of spliced lines, cause I feel like if I don't have another not to tie then thats one more thing I can't screw up, but if I have to tie in I use a bowline. Where I work, we all pretty much do the same thing, but I'm sure everyone on here has their own way of doing things. I guess thats one of the things I'm most interested in learning about from this site, just the different ways people do stuff. Both VTMechEng and I are new so we want to soak up as much knowledge as possible to get as good as we can.


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## Lumberjack (Mar 2, 2004)

I used to work strickly SRT, but now I have gone to DdRT (the traditional setuo), to give it a try. I skipped the blakes and went straight to the VT and distel, and they are much better, IMO, than the blakes. The VT is smooth as butter, and the distel is smaller and more compact.


Do you have a copy of Tree Climbers Companion? That is a good book for anyone.


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## SilverBlue (Mar 2, 2004)

Errr sorry, I fell out of my chair when Carl said he is climbing conventional.
I use the VT myself, sometimes the Distal or Blakes depending on what day it is 
I am waiting for some new Vertical pro equipment to come available before I start using SRT.
Lot's of great info on this site though, you won't be disapointed in the gang here.
Rob.


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## OutOnaLimb (Mar 2, 2004)

Hokies, thats right how could I ever forget!!!!

Kenn


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Welcome Lauryn, It's refreshing to so see a woman among us. It looks like your heading in the right direction. I'd say your starting out at a great point in climbing. With all the new advances it has gotten so much easier. First I must plead that you not get the wide back weaver with huge slideing D. If you want comfort go for the butterfly from Kommet. If you want something more readily available go with the glide. A girl your size would'nt look good a weaver. After all these guys may not admit it but its about looking good in a tree. I've climbing myself now since I was a teenager so about 15 years. I get really bored anymore. I really do like teaching others who are willing to learn. Perhaps if your interested maybe my associate and I could work something out to help bring you up to speed. This is a great site but if there is so much info here to sift through. 

Big John


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## OutOnaLimb (Mar 2, 2004)

I am in the running for an Army ROTC scholarship now.


__________________
Carl Rutherford
I die when I die, but until then, I LIVE!

ACK!!!! thats all we need is another young punk officer who thinks he knows everything. 

Just Kiddin Carl

Kenn:Monkey:


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> * After all these guys may not admit it but its about looking good in a tree. *


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

What do the rest of you think about BigJohns suggestion to not get a Weaver? I will admit that one of the things I like the most about the Weaver is its price, since I don't have a ton of money right now, but I would be open to other suggestions. No matter what I get it will come from Sherrill because my company has a contract with them. Thanks.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

I like my Weaver.  

I even took a picture!


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Don't let price be the decideing factor. Set your sights on the better saddle and put the money away and save. The only advantage over what you have now is the slideing ring. You can easily adapt a nice sling on your masters saddle for a slideing system and will increase the comfort of that saddle. Just keep in mind safety. I sold my butterfly to a friend who was in a pinch after chipping the other saddle I sold him. I have two others and I went back to using my buckingham versatile that I cut front off of and spliced in some 16 strand for a slideing system over the HP roller. I will have to replace the butterfly before the next competition. Haveing the slider will deffinately help you improve your climbing. Its nice to get new equipmet just dont buy for the sake of buying. Don't take this the wrong way, I was once told one the biggest reasons women are so cranky are the shoes they wear are uncomfortable. I guess they bought them cause they looked good or were on sale. Just what I heard. 

Big John


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## NickfromWI (Mar 2, 2004)

Don't get a weaver. They are unneccesarily heavy and bulky. 

I use the master II and like it. The butterfly is very good. 

Don't get a saddle with lots of leather!

love
nick


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## jkrueger (Mar 2, 2004)

*... and,*

How about the glide? I use it and what do other users think?

That X-saddle frm Fresco always interested me, does anyone use it?

Jack


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## topnotchtree (Mar 2, 2004)

Welcome! You said yourself you used many types of saddles. I think you have a good idea of what you want to climb with already. There are so many different saddles out there and just as many different people to wear them. I suggest you get what you already know you feel comfy in. I use a plain 4d saddle from buckingham. It was cheap, and I like it.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

[QUOTE
*But... but... How can you resist this handsome devil???  *[/QUOTE]

so whens the baby due blaster? 
Hi lauren, welcome.
So you are a new climber, cool, but what about your saw experience? thats what separates treeclimbers, what they can do with a saw in the air, as opposed to flitting around the tree having fun.

please don't consider this sexist, I have found women to be great workers, when they choose this craft. I hire every woman that seriously wants work.


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## Burnham (Mar 2, 2004)

Lauryn--see if you can try a Ness saddle somewhere. There are several of us who swear by them, the price is good, and Sherrill carries one model.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

Allright, Treeslayer. I gotta get the big guns out...







And Burnhams right. I trying a Ness out next.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

Haircuts a giveaway, 1972?


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## Dadatwins (Mar 2, 2004)

Hey welcome to site, give ya some credit for even getting involved in this crazy field of work dominated mostly by male climbing- legends - in - there - own - mind.  I use a weaver wideback 4 dee and like the back comfort. Also use a tautline which most here have condemned as the dinosaur of climbing hitches, but plan on trying some new stuff I saw on site.


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

> cool, but what about your saw experience? thats what separates treeclimbers, what they can do with a saw in the air, as opposed to flitting around the tree having fun.



First of all, any time I go into a tree, saw or not, I'm smart enough to wear a hard hat and the rest of my personal protective equipment, so I figure I'm already a step ahead of some. 

Second of all, I am small, so I'm working up to using the big saws. I never used a saw at all until about 2 weeks ago, but its been a great learning process. Hopefully I'll be fairly proficient soon and I'll be doing big jobs just like anyone else.


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## NickfromWI (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by VTclimber _
> *First of all, any time I go into a tree, saw or not, I'm smart enough to wear a hard hat and the rest of my personal protective equipment, so I figure I'm already a step ahead of some. *




Good call 

love
nick


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treeslayer _
> *Haircuts a giveaway, 1972? *



Haircut? You can see my hair?

Errr, I was 28.  


Lauryn, do you have a Silky yet?


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Hey Nick is that Mark in that picture?


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## NeTree (Mar 2, 2004)

I bet that smaller, lighter body gets you up where alot of us couldn't work without breaking somethin'.

Welcome.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by VTclimber _
> *First of all, any time I go into a tree, saw or not, I'm smart enough to wear a hard hat and the rest of my personal protective equipment, so I figure I'm already a step ahead of some.
> 
> . I never used a saw at all until about 2 weeks ago, but its been a great learning process. Hopefully I'll be fairly proficient soon and I'll be doing big jobs just like anyone else. *



Well, no hard hard hat. I agree. what other PPE am I missing? 

I've been operating saws 28 years, longer than many here have been alive. my comfort level is high. and rightly so. I have no problem pulling an 066 up or working all day with a 372 or 036.

I will not accede to the "fairer sex" and be polite. you won't be doing jobs like me any time soon. or even in a couple of years.

cockiness kills, hurts and maims people. know your place.

( no, I am not after rockys job, but that kid getting hurt in Williamsburg is really bothering me.)
Please don't take too much offense, I mean well.


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

What does being lighter and smaller have to do with anything? Sure it helps but we can all get to to tips and ends. I think most people beat themselves by not going out there and telling themselves they cant do it. There is nothing wrong with leaving the pole saw at home and getting out there. I think most people I come across are just too lazy to get there.


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## NeTree (Mar 2, 2004)

Lazy has nothing to do with it. 

If you can't see where someone's weight can come into play, I'm not going to waste my time to explain.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

not as much lazy as scared. but I don't mean that as a flaw, just as a bare emotion.
you have to trust your TIP enough to go out, invert, and reach. especially when you reach that particular height,(different for everybody,) when you feel your mortality. That make sense?


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

I am just saying just because someone is heavier doesn't meant they can't get to the same places. People are either afraid or don't believe a limb will hold them. Being lighter does make it easier.


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## Stumper (Mar 2, 2004)

Down boys, Down! (Eric, at 200 plus pounds and having watched a good small climber in action....I know what you mean. Big John-I know you are capable of working the tips but personally I need my polesaw for some tips or I start breaking things.

Lauryn, Welcome! I have a wideback Weaver and a Ness Work Saddle. I thought the Weaver was the best saddle I'd ever used (it was) until I got my Ness. It is only a few dollars more and worlds lighter and more comfortable. FWIW, the design was developed by Tom Ness and Sophia Sparks-Since a woman helped develop it I suspect that it willl fit the female form with more comfort than the typical saddle-it certainly is more comfy for most guys who've tried it-it is a super value in climbing gear.:angel:


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## NickfromWI (Mar 2, 2004)




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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

In response to your statement, I do know my place, and thats why I always wear my PPE and only do what I know I can handle. I'm not thinking I'm gonna be taking down huge trees with 066s next week. I'm saying that I hope to be able to do these things in a reasonable amount of time. You don't need to step around me just cause I'm a female. I can take crap and I can dish it out too, and when I see something that I know is wrong, I'm gonna say it. As far as I'm concerned you should never go into a tree without a hard hat and you should never use a chainsaw without ear protection unless you want to be issued a hearing aid at the age of 35. I'm sorry if I tick you off, but I'm not stepping around anything, and maybe you guys will understand the type of woman I am by my responses. I'm not trying to burn any bridges, just learn. Don't judge me for it.


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## NeTree (Mar 2, 2004)

Being deaf in one ear (not equipment related) I know what it's like, and it SUCKS. 

It also throws yer balance off. I'm not as confident as I used to be on rope, and it shows sometimes.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

Kinda hard to wear hearing protection in a tree and expect to communicate with my rigger when I'm 60' up.
I'm 40, and still hear well enough. 

I'm not mad, just saying my piece.


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Dude, I'm not mad either, I'm just doing the same. I know it can be a hassel, but pop the ear plugs out of one ear, yell to your rigger, then put it back in and cut. We do it at my company day in and day out. Personally I went to too many rock concerts when I was younger to go without my ear protection for any amount of time. Just a thought.


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## NeTree (Mar 2, 2004)

What works best for me is a set of hand signals. Beats yeeling & saying "WHAT?" every ten seconds. Crane operators know the standard.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treeslayer _
> *
> I'm 40, and still hear well enough *



I am about same age and thought same until a hearing test showed different. Lost about 20% each ear. Worked for years without ear muffs so I could listen to groundman in case of problem. Realize better to keep them in line of site when working and not rely on hearing. Just my opinion, to each his own.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 2, 2004)

Almost 60 posts in a few hours, had to see what the commotion was! That is a lot of excitemeant, from a short post.....

i think the right female climber could exploit her lightness, stability, even perhaps a lack of strength etc.

The lightness takes less energy.

The lower C.o.B. gives better balance, along with wider pelvis for stability too, makes the 4" balance beam in gymnastics a Lady's event.

Not trying to bulldawg everything, drawing out better technique, a lil lack of strength perhaps makes it easier to feel the differance between slight variations of events, angles etc.

Ummmm loose clothing and hair etc. can get caught in a rolling D pinch powered by your own bodyweight IMHO, also smaller people i think can turn around easier anyway, so i hear.

Special to have you try this tough, guy dominated stuff. Honest to step into this anonymous den alone and not hyde. Great, to have better balance proposed here; do i have to tell ye how crusty a bunch of guys occassionally can git otherwise? (see/add to first paragraph) 

Hang in there,
that's all we do here, 
and the tree!
Welcome aboard
-KC


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Look guys, you've all got big johnsons, and you're all obviously good and and into what you do or else you wouldn't care enough to give me advice. Put them away and lets have a logical conversation. You don't have to argue your point, everyone has a different opinion, and we can all embrace someone else's opinion, even if we don't agree with it. Just read and learn.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treeslayer _
> *Kinda hard to wear hearing protection in a tree and expect to communicate with my rigger when I'm 60' up. *



Thats what I can't understand with the crews I deal with. Its like they can't understand any type of hand signals/non-verbal communication. "What?" seems to be the word they say the best. 

When I worked on a flight deck there was NO verbal communication. It was all hand signals, and to a minor extent, simple body language. Everything worked fine, and this was an aircraft carrier.

There needs to be a standardized set of hand signals, just like crane operations. Only for treework.

I have two signals I teach anyone on the ground. I would very much like to add to these signals, but I do not want to tax their tiny, little brains. (Forgive me, Good Groundies)

1) I touch my hardhat = polesaw
2) I touch my chin = bullrope

Thats it. I willing to yell the rest. But I wish I didn't have to. 

Personally, I can just LOOK at a climber/groundman and KNOW WHAT THEY NEED. My ears having to take in the sound waves produced by their mouths is, for the most part, unnecessary. We should be able to work efficiently even if we were completely deaf. After all, hearing protection? Chainsaws and chippers operating at full throttle? Where does actual 'hearing' fit into the equation?

It should ALL BE VISUAL, and it should ALL BE STANDARDIZED.

Actual hearing should be considered a luxury.


Lauryn, its good to have you onboard!


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## Dadatwins (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *
> Personally, I can just LOOK at a climber/groundman and KNOW WHAT THEY NEED. *



I think I just heard the voice of experience. 

Nice post


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## NickfromWI (Mar 2, 2004)

*a book on the way*

MB, you might like this one. I am currently compiling a list of signals that people use. I have a skilled illustrator waiting to hit the drawing board. A book/pamphlet is in the making.

The hand signals I promots (and suggest you consider/try) "make sense." Holding one hand out in a fist and moving it back and forth and then pointing to the ground might signify that you dropped your handsaw (why are you dropping your handsaw, butch?)

The problem I am having right now is that in my opinion, these hand signals all should be one-handed....but I don't think it's feasible. 

All good crews MUST have a working sign language.

love
nick


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Let's be honest we all don't have big johnsons I hear they're over rated. So VT do you really want to take down big trees that require using a 66 in a tree? I've been there and do it too much. I get paid just as much to go out and prune 100 ft plus oaks and poplars, fine dead wood. If thats what you want then go for it. I really enjoy pruning big trees with just a handsaw. It makes for a peaceful day. I too use hand signals to comunicate. I'm not big on asking for things. I usually expect my groundy to know that when I am not working and looking at him that I want something and he should know what I want by what is going on in the tree.


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Nick you do that on my crew and one might think your calling him a jerk off.


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## NeTree (Mar 2, 2004)

I agree. Get a groundy with experience, and he'll practically predict the climbers' next move.

Tough to find though.  

The nicest part of handsaws vs chainsaws IS the peace and quiet; just doing yer thing, enjoying the scenery, eh BigJohn?

Man, it's great!


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Yeah thats what I am talking about. For me its like an out of body experience. My body goes through all these motions but my mind is at home thinking about my horse or my fiance and money. If only the scenery was better. I need a gig hanging banners on the beach.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

wow, I sure started something here. 
Lauren, no I will not wear plugs. If my rigger (spotter) yells at me, I need to hear it. I like open communication with my ground crew. I own 5 sets of the peltor VOX radio headsets if I want to go high tech, but in a 2-3 hour takedown the saw probably only runs 10-15 minutes. with a crane their a must.
hand signals suck, and I will not trust them or the groundmans response via hand signals. sometimes when I have enough work I use a climber on the ground, and then we got flow. 
This climber is good, and does thing my way. I am open-minded, but have enough experience to recognize suggestions based on non applicable experience. or lack of.
nor does my johnson have anything to do with it. I'm not tallking about your breasts, don't digress.
I am only responding to what you have typed lauren, you sound worthy.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

So no hearing protection? And hand signals suck?

Hmmmm.


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

I agree with wearing of hearing protection. I hate not being to hear what is going on around me. It seems to throw me off balance. I do wear them when on the ground chipping and running a big saw to flush a stump or fell a tree. I don't usually use them in a tree. I may have them on a hard hat but I don't take the time to use them.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

So do any of ya'll have the noises in your head yet?

Cause I sure do.


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## NeTree (Mar 2, 2004)

Could u repeat that? I didn't hear ya


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Yeah for the past week nothing but echos. With comeing of allergies my ears been clogged up. Sounds cool to ME when I sing in a tree. It sounds like a freight train at times when my heart gets pumping.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 2, 2004)

I really only hear it at night, in bed, when everythings quiet. Anything from a sound of crickets to a high pitched whine.

I wish I would have worn protection the first 10, 15 years of work.


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

The high pitch whine wouldn't be comeing from the one sleeping next to you?


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## Dadatwins (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * Anything from a sound of crickets to a high pitched whine.
> 
> *



I hear that whine too usually starts when I get home and keeps up til she goes to bed 

What was this topic anyway


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## BigJohn (Mar 2, 2004)

Blood stopper is a by product of cutting "sawdust"


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## Stumper (Mar 2, 2004)

Lauryn, You are right about the hearing protection but all of your logic is lost on Slayer-it falls on deaf ears. 
Hearing protection is so much a part of my routine that I find myself putting in plugs or dropping the helmet muffs to load wood or use a polesaw.-Work = PPE.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

oops wrong picture.

they're not noises, those are voices.  
and they are my friends.

I wear hearing protection on the ground.
I got lots of different radios, and don't like hand signasl climbing. but I use them with a crane, or pulling trees.

how many people climb and or cut with a blood stopper handy?


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## Lumberjack (Mar 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by VTclimber _
> *Look guys, you've all got big johnsons, and you're all obviously good and and into what you do or else you wouldn't care enough to give me advice. Put them away and lets have a logical conversation. You don't have to argue your point, everyone has a different opinion, and we can all embrace someone else's opinion, even if we don't agree with it. Just read and learn. *



She aint got no problem speakin here mind.

It is kinda pointless... sounds over 120 or so decibels causes instant damage, constant at 80dcb causes hearing loss. 

Handsignals work for me, or i just pop the plugs in and out as needed. Also helment mounted muffs get the job done easier, if that is what you like.

Possibly off topic to this thread... (Lumberjack, the official unofficial moderrator of stayin in the proper forum)


Silver, I started tryin out DdRT last week i think.


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## treeslayer (Mar 2, 2004)

her logic's not lost, just not viable.
she's young, I understand. and to be commended for being safety concious.
but to each their own. 
I did not get where I am today by being ignorant, but the bottom line is I should not post pictures without approval from the safety dept.


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## che (Mar 2, 2004)

> I was worried about being a woman in a mans world



THEN....you found out how much FUN they were having!! 

Welcome to Arboristsite! There are a couple other females here...only heard from one other female climber since I've been here, last fall...I believe. I look forward to your posts. 

Che (I only lurk on this forum usually....the highest I climb is up into a tractor seat!  )


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## NickfromWI (Mar 2, 2004)

Treeslayer, young has nothing to do with it. Safety conscious does. I've worked on many crews. You make it seem like it's necessary to not wear the plugs. 

On most of the crews I've worked with, hearing protection was used by the ground crew and the people up in the air. Right now you think you NEED to not wear the plugs just because that's what you're used to. If you wear them for a while, you'll learn some hand signals real quick, and the ground guys will, too.

Then thirty years from now you'll still be able to hear.

love
nick

Lauryn, I like the cut of your jib!


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## ORclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

Welcome to AS. Way to start off working safe. As you can see, bad habits can be very hard to change down the road.


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## Toddppm (Mar 2, 2004)

Good to see you two here. What co. do you work for? 
BTW I would hire a woman climber in a second that's willing to learn if you have any friends interested but it wouldn't be FT tree work, we do alot of landscaping too.


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## VTclimber (Mar 2, 2004)

I'm not really interested in making a living out of taking down trees with big saws, I'm definately more into pruning on big trees, but lets be honest, sometimes the tree has to come down. I love just getting up in a tree and being there. I didn't really want to start a huge debate on PPE or hearing loss or whiny wifes, but I guess thats how these things tend to go. Oh well!


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 3, 2004)

Hi Lauryn, Don't you just love how many woodticks crawl out of the woodwork as soon as a new member makes a first post?
Welcome, from one woodtick to another.
John


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## murphy4trees (Mar 3, 2004)

Welcome and if you're open to some MORE advice... I'd like to 2nd Big Jon's recommendation to buy quality gear... Ya it's a few more bucks on the front end, but money well spent in the time and energy saved and the overall sensation of harmony that working with good equipment can bring... 
Maybe you could make the same suggestion to your boss and get him/her to chip in the extra cash...
I Am used to it now, but when I first got my Butterfly, I felt like Peter Pan floating around those trees for a while... It just makes the work soooo much sweeter to have equipment like that...


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## SilverBlue (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by VTclimber _
> *First of all, any time I go into a tree, saw or not, I'm smart enough to wear a hard hat and the rest of my personal protective equipment, so I figure I'm already a step ahead of some.
> 
> Second of all, I am small, so I'm working up to using the big saws. I never used a saw at all until about 2 weeks ago, but its been a great learning process. Hopefully I'll be fairly proficient soon and I'll be doing big jobs just like anyone else. *



Two weeks of experience running a saw in a tree is insignificant even if a safety course has been taken on proper operation. But it seems that you have a good head on your shoulders VT so don’t let anyone push you until you are positively sure you can handle a large saw in a tree. The accident that nebclimber had with his saw is still in the back of my mind. 
Don’t take the woodtick comment seriously Lauren, gypo logger has a problem with talking down to other members at times.


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## VTMechEng (Mar 3, 2004)

Trust me that VTclimber can hold her own out in the field, a tough girl. When it comes to safety there is one thing I have carried over from my Engineering experience...While it my cost more to be safe, and may even seem cumbersome, it is a lot cheaper than having to go to the hospital and much more fun then permanent physical damage or a trip to the morgue. Just because you haven't been hurt doing something in the past doesn't make it safe. Most important of all is to be safe for those around you. Yeah, I am new to this gig but all this just seems like common sense. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to push my views on anyone, just speaking my mind (and rambling a little).


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treeslayer _
> *
> I'm 40, and still hear well enough.
> 
> *



Mmmmm I don't know about that!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by che _
> *
> Che (I only lurk on this forum usually ) *



Our loss. You should drop in more often.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SilverBlue _
> *
> Don’t take the woodtick comment seriously Lauren, gypo logger has a problem with talking down to other members at times. *



I think John was calling everyone else a woodtick. All that barsh chest thumping.

This thread gave me a good laugh this morning. You go girl! 

I'm glad your with a company that will let you get comfortable with your gear.

Do you have an SSA chapter at school? There conferance/competition is in MN this year.


> The 8th Annual Student Society of Arboriculture Conference and Job Fair
> 
> April 16-18, 2004 at Eagle Bluff in Lanesboro, MN


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 3, 2004)

in defense of Gypo (am i really nuts? ); he calls a lot of the tree cutting brethren woodticks, as you see, himself included. i too think Che should more than lurk, as well as others of such 'persuasion'. Light, even balance.........; not much like it.

i think a lot of things that at first you think might stand against ya, you can bend their power to your way, by the right invocation and re-view of the principals and circumstances.

i also think, that said; that for a Lady, a rolling/pinching D; placed chest high might need another exam-eye-nation; irregardless of loose clothing/hair stuff (not good idea either) i tried to lead from previously to that point. Also that the utility of a rolling D, might not be as noticeable for a smaller person; with more freedom of movement than some others. So with less utility recieved for your person, you might incur greater non-positives in trade; making the cost of the situation rather high possibly for what you personally may get back, JMO.

VTMechEnga-neer has a point of: part of the challenge of the worker's puzzle is not what you can get away with most of the time, but how much you can generously overcome your task, totally commanding the situation safely and mechanically; giving as high a SWL factor in as many ways possible; to include proper safety gear IMLHO.

-KC


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## ROLLACOSTA (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SilverBlue _
> *Hi Lauryn, Welcome and congratulations for picking such a challenging career. Do you handle removals? And I am sure we would be interested in the climbing hitches you use. Would I hire a female climber? Absolutely if she is qualified and pays attention to details.
> Watch out for those smooth talkers like Butch, nice guy, great climber, but he only likes the outdoors when it’s dry *



id hire a chimpanzee at the moment ive had a job vacancie advertised for a week or more and only 1 call..id hire ,women ..little children you name it id hire them if they could climb and use a saw  :


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## ROLLACOSTA (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by VTclimber _
> *Well Silver, I'm pretty new to all of this stuff so I haven't done too much on my own yet, but the company I work for and the people I work with are doing a great job of training me. I would like to learn how to do everything there is to do in this field and to be as proficient in all of it as I can be, but no one is perfect....not even Butch
> 
> I first learned how to climb using a tautline hitch with a figure 8 stopper, but iI have switched to a Blake's with a stopper. I find it doesn't roll out as much as a tautline. I use a split tail, and I'm a fan of spliced lines, cause I feel like if I don't have another not to tie then thats one more thing I can't screw up, but if I have to tie in I use a bowline. Where I work, we all pretty much do the same thing, but I'm sure everyone on here has their own way of doing things. I guess thats one of the things I'm most interested in learning about from this site, just the different ways people do stuff. Both VTMechEng and I are new so we want to soak up as much knowledge as possible to get as good as we can. *




im the biggest fan in the world of the good old prussik loop


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## ROLLACOSTA (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *i still haven't got my 'trainee' more than this 3' off ground to play in tree; so i guess Miss Lauren is doing alright.
> 
> 
> ...



na then lad send that lass ova and upta yorksha.un mi old uncle tall have that young lass a climbing up un about trees tin no time.nout such thing as too old tin yorksha..what the lass needs is less tuv that current bun [sun ] and a drop ert wet stuff [rain].an a good feed ov pork pie un mushy peas .barm cake ,haddock an chips wi scraps..a couple pints tetleys bitter..by ek youll have a gooden tun books [a new climber]


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## SilverBlue (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *i still haven't got my 'trainee' more than this 3' off ground to play in tree; so i guess Miss Lauren is doing alright.
> 
> 
> ...



 Three feet off the ground and she's at eye level with you Kenny??





Hey you make sure that she gets the best climbing equipment if she does go a climbing, lot's of people count on her in the ICU


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## che (Mar 3, 2004)

> Our loss. You should drop in more often.



Thanks JP and KC! :blush: I probably WOULD....if I could knew anything about climbing. I'm enjoying it vicariously through you all. 

I've got to be careful and not get too cocky though...I've heard over and over on how bad spiking up a good tree is here (something I didn't know.) I met my new neighbor who's son does some climbing, she was showing me how he spiked up a pretty nice pine tree to clean it up a bit. First words out of my mouth is "Spiking's not good for your tree, you know." I kinda burst her bubble from the look I got from her. A _little_ bit of knowledge can be dangerous.

BTW, I've always assumed 'woodtic' was more of a term of endearment...like 'family'...used for those who are at home in the woods. I'd take it as a compliment.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

Where I'm from it's a scurrilous epithet.

"Gosh darn woodtick's come down from Minnisoda and spike trees and lowball bids!"


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA _
> *.an a good feed ov pork pie un mushy peas .barm cake ,haddock an chips wi scraps..a couple pints tetleys bitter..by ek youll have a gooden tun books [a new climber] *



So are you so hard up for help that you'll pay wages *and* meals?

I might come over for a while


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## NickfromWI (Mar 3, 2004)

I agree with Spyder that the the rolling-d might be problematic for some, especially you women AND MEN out there with boobs. Maybe a better option is a saddle or comparable saddle with a shorter bridge that doesn't go up so high.







love
nick


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 3, 2004)

i'd use heavier rope/chord like Nick's for that trick not smaller chords for VT etc. IMLHO. Especially with some of the lower numbers quoted around here for that position in set up. A bent line is very different from a straight one, as it leverages the line.

Realizing extra loading of that line through leveraging at a flatter angle to the teepee the carabiner forms in it when loaded. Not as high up commanding a flatter angle, loading the lil'line, eye splices/knots and saddle connection more.

At 120 degrees angle the line is loaded so that each connecting leg to saddle (and thus those points on saddle) carries not half, but your full body weight. As the teepee rises, angle is less flat so each point carries less than your bodyweight/impact, at 0 degrees both ends carry 1/2 your bodyweight.

Going to the other side of 120degrees angle of the leveraged teepee in the bend of the line starts to load each end more than your bodyweight, so takes a stronger chord etc., and squeezes in on ya with that pressure too i would think. Flattening that teepee to 150 degrees and you have about 2x your bodywieght on each end of the chord/eyes/saddle, rising very sharply from there.



> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *So are you so hard up for help that you'll pay wages and meals?
> 
> I might come over for a while  *
> Watch this, he is gonna teach another lesson in economics if he sets someone up on that deal again!


Peace,
Don't get any carpet burns on your knuckles please.
:alien:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

Nick, don't you think that the fabric/fabric friction would wear the saddle faste then a metal link?

also makes it easier to swap out if on a link.


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## NickfromWI (Mar 3, 2004)

John, it's really not a high wear spot. The cord doesn't really rock back and forth. It tends to remain motionless while fully weighted. But you're right- a metal connector between would eliminate all doubt. One must keep an eye on it. I don't anticipate it will be all that bad. I don't like the metal links involved because my carabiners tend to get caught up in them. Sometimes I'd lean over not knowing that a carabiner is caught on a ring, then the ring would "pop" through the carabiner (righting itself). That "pop" would scare the crap outta me!

Ever since I went to the straight rope, it's been smooth sailing! The picture I just posted has a bridge of 3/8ths Yalex. On my saddle, I have 1/4" vectrus. I am going to replace it with the fatter yalex. (do you like how I buried the tails of the fisherperson's knots....so it's nice and clean! )
 
Yeah, if anyone is going to be putting their own bridges on their saddles (like if you are getting a butterfly)...do use a line that's at least 5000lb. As KC mentioned, this is not a place for friction hitch cord. That yalex is worth 6,000lbs at 3/8ths. 

love
nick


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by NickfromWI _
> *John, it's really not a high wear spot. *



How many years do you plan on using the saddle?


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## NickfromWI (Mar 3, 2004)

Hmmmm, never really thought about it. I've tried out a few saddles here and there, and haven't found anything that suits me better...yet.

What are you getting at?

Maybe I'll retire it when that loop wears through 

love
nick


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## treeslayer (Mar 3, 2004)

JPS, shadupp. 
Your so tall, it goes right over my head.

Okay, lauren today, for you, I tried ALL the proper PPE.

but I missed the ice cream truck!


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## Stumper (Mar 3, 2004)

Slayer, You really shouldn't aim for the ice cream truck anyway.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 3, 2004)

Hi Slayer,
Just a reminder from someone that's got a few years on you....
You might not always ge able to handle that 066 in the tree....

But even then you'll be a good if not great climber... Getting more done with less energy is the way of the Tao...

God Bless and save me some deer liver this fall..

Thanks,
Daniel


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## jmchristopher (Mar 4, 2004)

*Meet another?*

Lauryn, if you haven't already, you might want to meet Melissa Lawler, who is the Production Fore...person for the Care of Trees office in Gaithersburg. She's been climbing for 7 or maybe even 8 years, and is active in the ISA competions. She's good people and lives pretty close to you in Potomac. Her email is [email protected]. Welcome and Good luck!


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## VTMechEng (Mar 4, 2004)

Hey TreeSpyder, here are the actual force calcs of the floading D setup. Remember that when you move the upward force from this shown center position from one side to the other it will effect the forces applied to the saddle by changing the angle of the floating D rope. Hope this helps and gives some insite into just how much force is seen by the saddle. (the file is a doc file)


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## VTMechEng (Mar 4, 2004)

Hey NickfromWI, I would really like to know how you buried the ends of the double fishermen's loop. Thanks.

Stephen


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## Lumberjack (Mar 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by VTMechEng _
> *Hey NickfromWI, I would really like to know how you buried the ends of the double fishermen's loop. Thanks.
> 
> Stephen *



Is it just a bury splice? That would make sense. Just bury the tail. 


Nick why didnt you just splice the eyes instead of the fishermans knot?


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## NickfromWI (Mar 4, 2004)

Let's keep this one on topic!

I used to work with a girl at the Care of Trees. She was pretty good. She climbed good sized trees (70-80') no problem!

love
nick

Lumberjack and VTME- New Bridge Thread


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## rbtree (Mar 4, 2004)

Welcome, Lauryn!!

Out here in Seattle, ITCC competitor Kathy Holzer owns her own one truck and crew outfit aptly called "Out on a Limb Tree Service" and she can...


...get out ona limb!

I've never worked with a female climber, but would love to. I've some female mt and rock climbing friends who are amazing. One thing women tend to do, being down in physical strength and brawn is to finesse and think their way through tasks.

We're halfway through a 4 large elm removal (DED killed, the first I've worked on out here) Major rain yesterday made the job a drag, but today there is 14 inches of fresh powder in the hills and still dumping, so I'm out the door to play. The trees can wait!. Yeehaww!!

Here's the old man relaxing...


...till touchdown


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 4, 2004)

If I could have my way right now, I would have every tree climber on this forum bring their chippers and ground crew to the residential woodlot I just finished. The owner actually believed I was going to remove every twig and rotten goontree from the forest floor! Talk about unrealistic expectations.
Plus with the snow rotting and all, their little microcosm looks like a bad haircut. Good thing I have a 180 day permit, when everything greens up they will wonder what they were whinning about. The whinning increased by the power of ten when I placed the cheque in their hands for 32 nice stems off 17 acres. Oh well, I am sure they will love me when I finish the trails and it all greens up.
John


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 4, 2004)

Welcome VTMech, quite a fiery lil'Lass ya got thar; holding her own here, already started a thread that is in top 10 for replys and views for any thread in the Climber's Forum since it started; only she did it in ~1 day, compared to some threads running a month or so! MB, ya might 've been a quick riser, but ya might have competition here! 

VTMech, them numbers and symbols, get to lookin'Greek to me; so i cheat. Dave Spenscer of VerticalPro posted a sheet a while back at TB, been rewerked some; it shows 2 angles for lifting on a "2:1" to some, at different angles called a DWT'round these parts. For simpler stuff than that i just use the same spreadsheet, just reading "m"(weight), "A"(angle), and "t"(line tension) values. It too assumes pull from middle, i think same pattern as your calculation, but some discrepancy ~10degress per the loading value you quote. Same pattern and ~rise, none the less each good enough for guestimating. 

The filter doesn't accept .xls extensions. So i just made it end in .txt and it goes, but you have to change it back to .xls manually; to read in Excel, then if you change the weight or angle values,the sheet calculates the permutations of the rest of the table, spread out in 10degree increments for easy comparison.

It is my observation that the percentage of the leveraged loading to the actual load is the same at any given degree; and there the pattern of loading is evident. Also, the more dynamic loading change per degree of change is greater nearer to flat. It takes 0-120 degrees to change the loading 50%, but only then 20 degrees more (120 to 140) to change the leveraged loading almost the same 50%! i think that bending the line 1 degree from flat to 179 degrees, gives mind blowing leverage, making sweating in a tight line fantastic!

Glad your here! My HTML changeover for Excel isn't werking, so i can't post a 'stagnant' sheet that you can't change the numbers on, but anyone could read.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 4, 2004)

Though with a text extension, this should open up to Internet language HTML for a sheet for anyone to see but not change. 

The previous is the actual working calculator, if you change the extension to .xls, and open in Excel.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 4, 2004)

This will be the legend for the different points on the previous stagnant sheet, as it didn't load with the work around enabling posting through the filter here.


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## treegeek (Mar 4, 2004)

good lord, what a lot of attention a female climber gets all of a sudden. hey lauren, welcome. if i could figure out how to edit my username you'd know i am a female climber as well. and thanks 
RB for the mention. my name is kathy holzer, and i've been climbing for 10 yrs or so. just for the record, the biggest tree i've ever pruned was a 175' Doug fir, and the biggest removal i've been the climber on was another doug fir that only got to about 130' before i showed up. i was the climber, it was raining and blowing 30mph and me and three guys on the ground had it down and chipped by lunch. i'm 5'9" 160 and can out-climb most of the guys i know. don't let them get to you lauren, it's all possible if you decide it is. 
i just bought the glide and used it for the first time today. verdict isn't in yet - lots of tweaking to do. i climbed for years on a weaver sliding d and actually wore it last week. still the most comfortable ???? saddle of the 5 or 6 i own, but it's HEAVY.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 4, 2004)

*You go, girl!!*


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## Lumberjack (Mar 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treegeek _
> *good lord, what a lot of attention a female climber gets all of a sudden. hey lauren, welcome. if i could figure out how to edit my username you'd know i am a female climber as well. and thanks
> RB for the mention. my name is kathy holzer, and i've been climbing for 10 yrs or so. just for the record, the biggest tree i've ever pruned was a 175' Doug fir, and the biggest removal i've been the climber on was another doug fir that only got to about 130' before i showed up. i was the climber, it was raining and blowing 30mph and me and three guys on the ground had it down and chipped by lunch. i'm 5'9" 160 and can out-climb most of the guys i know. don't let them get to you lauren, it's all possible if you decide it is.
> i just bought the glide and used it for the first time today. verdict isn't in yet - lots of tweaking to do. i climbed for years on a weaver sliding d and actually wore it last week. still the most comfortable ???? saddle of the 5 or 6 i own, but it's HEAVY. *




Welcome to AS....

2 gals in one week... things are lookin up!!

I tried the glide, and it seemed mighty bulky, with alot of adjustment tho... Make sure you keep the buckle's dogs free to move and engage fully!


Have you tried the ness work saddle, I love mine, and it is simpler, and cheaper than the glide. However it lacks the floating D.


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## treegeek (Mar 4, 2004)

*ness saddle*

got a picture of it?


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## Lumberjack (Mar 4, 2004)

Click here and go down to the bottom. 

Here is a pic of mine:






I use kongs bent gate to hold my junk.


Yet another red shirt!!! Must be a sign!


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## treegeek (Mar 4, 2004)

that looks like my old new tribe saddle - same thing? i sold it to one of my ground guys- i didn't like it all that well, except for the weight


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## Lumberjack (Mar 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treegeek _
> *that looks like my old new tribe saddle - same thing? i sold it to one of my ground guys- i didn't like it all that well, except for the weight  *




Did yours look like this?













Do you perfer the floating D?


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 4, 2004)

*I could take a nap in that saddle!*


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## rumination (Mar 4, 2004)

Carl,
Does that center D on the New Tribe saddle slide for greater mobility, or does it stay put? I'm thinking about either their new pro work saddle or the smokejumper (I kind of like all those extra loops on the legstraps) for my next saddle.


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## Burnham (Mar 5, 2004)

Rumi--I'm sure Carl with give a reply here in a bit, but 'til then... 

The center D does not slide much at all.

I like the looks of the pro model, too. It's very much like the customized work saddle that I had New Tribe build for me. You could do a lot worse for a lot more money if you went with either of those saddles.


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## Stumper (Mar 5, 2004)

Ditto, what Burnham said. The linkage to the waist belt (the delta link) keeps the center D from actually sliding far but the whole set up allows for good mobility. I think it is a great compromise-more "firmness" than a standard floating D but much better pivoting capability than a 4 D set up.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 5, 2004)

The best of both worlds, eh? Thats cool!

I gotta get a Ness!


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## Lumberjack (Mar 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rumination _
> *Carl,
> Does that center D on the New Tribe saddle slide for greater mobility, or does it stay put? I'm thinking about either their new pro work saddle or the smokejumper (I kind of like all those extra loops on the legstraps) for my next saddle. *



Dont know why is didnt see this last night... was on here till 12 or so.


To answer, no it stays put. There is a floating D, but that is on the leg straps (one reason why this saddle is so comfy IMO). 

However it isnt hard to twist around (your waist) in the belt part of the saddle, as the floating D on the leg straps moves with you, and still supports you.

It suits me for an all around great saddle, and you can sleep in, trust me.


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## Lumberjack (Mar 5, 2004)

Just incase you forgot about it, or have never seen it, this was my first "saddle".

It is great for repellin if its all you got, but not much else. It would be considered a floating D.






Oh... Those are Sherrills newest chainsaw pants!!


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## VTMechEng (Mar 5, 2004)

*floating D calcs*

I can tell you that my numbers are correct and it is the correct way to calculate the forces applied to the saddle connection points. This is the kind of stuff I did for 4 years of college and for the professional engineering exam. If you have any questions regarding the method feel free to send me a private message and we can talk about the calcs. I am reposting the word file with a few corrections to help aid in explanation. Sorry for the confusion and I know it is really geeky (I am an engineer) but this kind of stuff can save your life. Always multiply your force numbers by AT LEAST a 3.5 factor of safety because the force of your body is much larger while ascending and moving around the tree.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 5, 2004)

Outstanding, and ya know i will!

Like i said, i claim not such an expertise at that depth of crunching, just chart reading, pattern finding perhaps.

To me examing the exact numbers is for finding the pattern, so that when guestimating in the field, judging whether you are in the red, yellow or green zone of leveraging/loading to help aid in better decisions IMLHO. Both calculations show the same pattern of progression nearly, so close, but only one can be right of course. 

Thanx,
-KC


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 5, 2004)

Doe anyone have a link to the Donzelli papers for Mech to read?

I think he would be interested in what Dr. Pete gave us before he died.


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## VTMechEng (Mar 5, 2004)

*loads*

If any of you ever want how something is calculated just let me know. If I don't know (which will probably be more often than not) I will say so but will help when I can. For the most part I can figure out forces/loading, moments, torques, etc. These include both static and dynamic situations. Also, anything relating to leverage or mechanical advantages. Man I hope I didn't regret this  .


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 5, 2004)

Hmmmmmmmmm poor VTMech; no body warned him.......... 

Just for fun, if you care to; what kind of leverage multiplier do you see placed at each anchor on a tight line that you bend in the middle, but only can manage 1, then 2 degrees from flat (sweating in/pretightening line) for that bend. What if beyond using the leveraging for pretightening, we suddenly, sharply bent the line for more support swooping over antanae etc., any real help as line is loaded and then bent?

i have just a few links of Dr. Pete Donzelli's left after disk crash, only these work presently:

Understanding Mechanical Advantage 


Ropes and Knots for Rigging .


Dynamic Forces in Rigging 

That, and "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging" of course.


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## Greg (Mar 5, 2004)

I wish there were more women in tree work, I'd gladly hire one. I don't see size as a big issue, yes you need to be strong to take down a big tree with a big saw, but I bet after a short while a 110lbs person could do it (after they have developed those saw & climbing muscles). 
I was working in a new neighborhood under developement --taking down 3 live oaks killed due to construction --Told the home owner to sue the developer... Across the street a ways a lot is being cleared all woman crew driving the big cats pushing over big pine trees, and driving big trucks hauling away the debris "Jills Trucking". Here I know of a woman owned and run tree service and another women owned and operated landscaping business, both are very polular and I hear both are always booked up about 1 month out year round. 

I hope you will be in the business for the long haul, you seem very sharp and I'm sure you will be sucessful if you stick to it. Make a plan to be on you own within a set period of time don't get lost being an employee.

I spent some time in Williamsburg last year --and met your no hard hat friend. Except when I saw him on the job site he did have his hard hat on, and he does a good job of running tree crews --he does like those big saws! The Va area that I was in was ripe for a setting up a good tree biz, the yellow pages were only about 3 pages long in a fairly large town with a BUNCH of trees. Just ask the Slayer he knows VA tree work.
Welcome, and good luck!
Greg


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 5, 2004)

That's because we would send him back to his car when he cam on the site without a brain bucket


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## treeslayer (Mar 5, 2004)

I have at least a dozen hardhats and different styles of hearing protection in my garage. see picture. we were the only company during Isabel I saw 
(out of a hundred) in full PPE, including red hard hats and reflective vests for the ground labor.

Lauren, I apologize if I offended you about your skills or gender, or temperment. I was defending myself, and you are more than welcome here as far as I am concerned.

JPS ran a tight ship, I appreciate his no nonsense approach to safety. a month of 70 ton crane work 10 -12 hours a day, 6 days a week. 4-6 laborers most days, and 4 climbers on 2 crews.

0 injuries on the ground.
1 minor cut in the air.

*0 injuries on the ground.* 
thanks again John.

hi greg, how's it going?


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## treeslayer (Mar 5, 2004)

Oh yeah, John would run off the homeowners, security, anybody.
At 6' 14" we listened to him.

Even my mom and grandmother. 
No BS.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 5, 2004)




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## treeslayer (Mar 5, 2004)

come get some of this.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 5, 2004)

Ya gotta learn to use your text tool in paint!


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## murphy4trees (Mar 5, 2004)

Dave,
You put a lot of money in the pockets of that team.... You took care of those guys and that's commendable... Though I never saw your crew at work other than JPS taking the dead top out of a small holly with a pole saw, I can imagine it was fun to watch those men work....
PS greg... those three pages turned to almost nine real quick cause a lot of folks realized what a great place to live and work that was...


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## TREETX (Mar 6, 2004)

BTW - those pics in the speed line thread. That is a male climber but it is a woman who owns the company. She runs the crew and sells the work.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13478


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## jamie (Mar 6, 2004)

*wimin*

ive been told by my gaffer that he has only had one lassie ask for a job and that was ages ago, he said he would have taken her on if it wasnt for the fact folk would end up saying 'but they got to work with her yesterday'.......juvenile i agree but it was his call..... from what he told me it was a long time ago and she was a bonnie lassie

more power to women in this industry, and the sports i partake in. both are very male dominated

jamie


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## rbtree (Mar 6, 2004)

Hey Kathy!!

A big welcome to ya too!

I passed you on the fwy a while back...nice looking rig!

I'm off to ski deep powder today, but will soon post a thread on the huge DED elm removal we just finished, along the Snoqualmie River near Carnation. 
Here's a teaser:


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## rbtree (Mar 6, 2004)

! more, awesome sunset light. We worked till after 7m pm last nite to get done...must have done 35-40 crane picks.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Mar 6, 2004)

Awesome picture subject, framing and quality as all ways RB!


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## xtremetrees (Mar 6, 2004)

*welcome lady*

Welcome lady.
I wear the Master saddle. Like it just fine for them long removals especially.
You be safe up there.
Here are a few ropes youll be looking at buyin. I like the New England products. Its the Hi visable orange ones.1 is durn near 7 years old and look, its still working fine a little short thou
Heres the pic


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 6, 2004)

7 years should be retired or downgraded for no impact light rigging. I have one just like it I use for buring stuff out of crappy trees.


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## xtremetrees (Mar 6, 2004)

Roger that John Paul. I hardly climb on it anymore. I do use it to rope small limbs. 
Here is a pic of a buddy I've shown one knot to.
He has his own tree service now but has already in les than 1 year had two close calls.
I have outfitted him with the best gear I could find in hope that he will not end up as so many of my nearest tree buds have.
Heres his pic and his gear 
What is wrong with this picture?


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 6, 2004)

Too many QuarterPounders with cheese?

:angel:


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 6, 2004)

:angel:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 7, 2004)

That's the new "Army of One".


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## TREETX (Mar 7, 2004)

100% American?

Jeez

100% McDonalds....... 

Don't understand where these stereotypes of Americans come from.........


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## a_lopa (Mar 7, 2004)

*female climbers*

hi i have a young women who i gave a start in the industry she is a great worker but to be honest not strong enough for the private tree removal buisness,but now she has worked for a few different companys she is making her own way,i think the best tree workers have worked for different companys and are alwaqys willing to learn of whoever,the company i started with nothing against them are stuck in the same ways as they think they know everything someone with little experience might see something i dont got to keep mind open


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## RescueMan (Mar 7, 2004)

xtremetrees asked:


> What is wrong with this picture?



OK, I give. What is wrong? The T-shirt? The fact that his saw has no bar? That he's tied in on a munter hitch?

- Robert


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## murphy4trees (Mar 7, 2004)

His shirt is not tucked in and could get caught up in the Munter... also it looks like the biner on his lanyard is a screw gate... though it's togh to tell..
Both are just guesses.... Actually I give up too....


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## treebeach (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi Lauryn,
Nice to see another one is out there! There's not many of us.

Hope to meet you in Pittsburgh this year at the Annual ISA Conference. 

Will you be climbing in your Chapter's competition?

Keep the fire in the belly.  

Cheers,
Treebeach


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## Ax-man (Mar 7, 2004)

Aside from what has been mentioned, that pole in the background has wires coming down for underground service which means there are overhead wires and this guy is using a wire core lanyard, BIG NO NO

Also what is that yellow cord on a stick, that looks like some throw line that is wrapped around the pole. I hope there isn't a throw ball on the other end that is hung on the wire, and this guy is planning to climb the pole to get it.

Welcome Treebeach, glad to have ya, this makes two female climbers, that 's great.

Larry


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 7, 2004)

*Welcome, Treebeach!*

So that makes two? Lauryn? and yourself?

Cool!


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## che (Mar 7, 2004)

> good lord, what a lot of attention a female climber gets all of a sudden. hey lauren, welcome. if i could figure out how to edit my username you'd know i am a female climber as well. and thanks
> RB for the mention. my name is kathy holzer, and i've been climbing for 10 yrs or so. just for the record, the biggest tree i've ever pruned was a 175' Doug fir, and the biggest removal i've been the climber on was another doug fir that only got to about 130' before i showed up. i was the climber, it was raining and blowing 30mph and me and three guys on the ground had it down and chipped by lunch. i'm 5'9" 160 and can out-climb most of the guys i know. don't let them get to you lauren, it's all possible if you decide it is.
> i just bought the glide and used it for the first time today. verdict isn't in yet - lots of tweaking to do. i climbed for years on a weaver sliding d and actually wore it last week. still the most comfortable ???? saddle of the 5 or 6 i own, but it's HEAVY.



No....TreeGeek (Kathy) made for #2, Welcome Treebeach...three female climbers in this thread!


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## VTclimber (Mar 7, 2004)

Treebeach,
Didn't know the ISA conference was in the Burgh...might have to go up for that. When is it exactly? As of now I'm not quite of the caliber climber to be competing with anyone other than myself, but hopefully someday I'll be able to handle that. Definately gonna go check it out though. A few guys from my office are competing, it should be fun.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 7, 2004)

*Yikes!*

Sorry! I thought there was one more!

Welcome, Kathy!


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## Ax-man (Mar 7, 2004)

My mistake too. Sorry about that, I just missed Kathy's post, did some back tracking and found it. A belated welcome Kathy. Thanks Che.

I normally don't say howdy to new comers, let others do that, but they are just guys, though. For members of the opposite sex I'll go a little overboard, it is nice to have females on board. Again welcome, Any more out there feel free to join in, the ice has been broken.

Larry


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## rb_in_va (Mar 8, 2004)

*Looking for VA climber pics*

Hello VTClimber and VTMech, I have started a Yahoo group for VA climbers. I am new to climbing and was looking for a Yahoo climbing group for the VA region. There was none, so I started one myself. I don't even know where to begin with climbing but I am hoping other VA climbers can give me some guidance (places to go for instruction, gear, etc). I am looking for pics of climbers from VA (it seems appropriate). Actually I need need one for the VAtreeclimbers home page. Do you have any of you or your fiancee that I could use on the site? Also, I welcome any and all climbers (professional or recreational) to the site. Without experienced climbers, the group really is useless. This is the URL for the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VAtreeclimbers

Thanks, Roger.


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## Eagle1 (Mar 8, 2004)

Welcome you two. sorry I am late to greet you both. Have fun here!!


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## treegeek (Mar 9, 2004)

*how many of us are there..?*

no offense taken gentlemen. there are so few of us it's hard to keep track.  actually i bet there are more women surfing here than any of us know. i surfed for a long time before opening my big mouth. che, i know, is also a woman who surfs more than posts. guess we're a little shy. or something. i have personally taken half a dozen women climbing in seattle and know of a small handful of others who own gear and climb to some extent. training me up another right now, actually.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 9, 2004)

Three climbers by my count, Treegeek. Yourself, Lauryn, and Treebeach. Doya think somemore are lurking?


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## TheSurgeon (Mar 9, 2004)

*anything worth talking about*

o.k., so there are females in this world-no kidding! Do you think we can talk about something educational?

ps you get what you pay for


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 9, 2004)

Go troll another forum, bro.


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## Tom Dunlap (Mar 9, 2004)

Lauryn,

When did you learn climbing in college? Did they teach you only the tautline? When did you learn the Blake's?

Weaver makes adequate saddles that meet a reasonable price point. If you want a saddle that performs better, plan on spending some more money. I'm climbing on a Butterfly that is at least three years old and it's still wonderful. 

The X-saddle from Fresco is a nice one but would not be a good design for a small body. The next version will be better. 

Tom

JPS wrote:

"Gosh darn woodtick's come down from Minnisoda and spike trees and lowball bids!"

You must be talking about the crews from central MN. Or maybe mis ID'ing the cheeseheads 

Tom


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## TheSurgeon (Mar 9, 2004)

*Attn: Lonesome in LA*

MB, How about you make another video. It will make you feel more wanted.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks for the advice. Dualy noted. And troll elsewhere.


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## treebeach (Mar 14, 2004)

*The Trio*

Thanks for the welcoming committee. You're a bunch of dedicated posters. Like Kathy, I too have lurked for a long while, but haven't responded.

Lauryn & others, regarding the ITCC in Pittsburgh, it will be on August 7-8th. 

Kathy knows this is all too well... she happens to kick arse in the footlock and is an excellent climber. I know from personal experience having the opportunity to climb with her last year (and hope to do again this August)  . Hint-hint.

Owning your own business has it's advantages when hiring arborists becomes a necessity...

Cheers,

Treebeach 

Aka: Big Al


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## MasterBlaster (May 5, 2004)

I wonder where our ladys have been lately???


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## a_lopa (May 5, 2004)

surgeon please tie in above you and scarfe it out,do everyone a favour


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

*"scarfe it out"*

Sorry, new lingo to me. What exactly do you mean ? And yes I do tie in w/ a second method, BUT most of my work are pines...


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## treegeek (May 6, 2004)

*hey MB*

can't speak for the other gals, but out here in Seattle the busy season has hit, and between working, doing bids and calming down the caterpillar beseiged i have little time for posting. also our chapter comp is this weekend so i've been doing a bit of "park overtime", if you know what i mean. wish me luck on saturday... and thanks for askin' ! 
Kathy


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

Knock em dead on Sat, Kathy!

And don't be a stranger!


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

*TreeCo*

Sorry if I don't conform to your standards. I've been in this line of business for a while and know my limits. So, my apologies if I'm not part of the ????? group this forum attracts. My words to you, go ???? yourself.


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

And another thing. I don't have too many posts because this forum is just a bunch of pansies wanting to know there's someone else out there like them. A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

Well at least it's good to see you still have strong people skills.


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

*MB*

Do you do anything besides sit at your computer?


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## NeTree (May 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TheSurgeon _
> *And another thing. I don't have too many posts because this forum is just a bunch of pansies wanting to know there's someone else out there like them. A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. *




Then why are you still here?

BTW, the IGNORE button works wonders. Trust me.


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## jkrueger (May 6, 2004)

*those in pain*

... , me thinks the guy is hurting something bad.

Hey, guy, we are about trees and climbing them and we are insane about it. The insanity is out of pure passion.

Love ya,
Jack


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

*Re: MB*



> _Originally posted by TheSurgeon _
> *Do you do anything besides sit at your computer? *



http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12381


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Re: MB*

Do you do anything that is NOT anti-social?


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

*JPS*

I'm sending my "reguards". By the way JPS, please remove me from this forum. I'm done.


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

*Thank you and have a nice day!*


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

*MB*

I do bids, estimates, sub cont. work, side jobs, etc. Lincensed, insured, and rake in between $1500. and $ 2700 a week depending on my energy level. To tell you the truth, I actually turn down tree companys because I am just too busy. Ask Brian, he'll tell ya how eager I am to work with new clientel.


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## TheSurgeon (May 6, 2004)

*MB*

rugs go on floors.........


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## MasterBlaster (May 6, 2004)

*Re: hey MB*



> _Originally posted by treegeek _
> *... also our chapter comp is this weekend so i've been doing a bit of "park overtime", if you know what i mean. wish me luck on saturday... and thanks for askin' !
> Kathy *



How 'bout some pics later?


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## a_lopa (May 7, 2004)

thanks for the email surgeon,when i am ill let you know


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## MasterBlaster (May 8, 2004)

*TREEGEEK!!!*

How-jah doo?


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## Nathan Wreyford (May 9, 2004)

I would like to know as well.

The Swedish comp was this weekend as well. I heard Ronny Eppel and Beddes were going to be there.

I would love to see some picks!!


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## treegeek (May 12, 2004)

*PNW comp*

hey mb. short answer, dan and i will be going to pittsburgh. long answer goes in comp results thread right? see you there.oh, and there are pics if i can figure out how that works...


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## treegeek (May 12, 2004)

*PNW comp*

hey mb. short answer, dan and i will be going to pittsburgh. long answer goes in comp results thread right? see you there.oh, and there are pics if i can figure out how that works...

ooops, i guess i'm thinking of that *other* site..

so there were 25 climbers in spokane this weekend competing for the right to climb in pittsburgh (and fat prize packages!) - this year we had 3 women. that was nice since last year it was just me. i didn't get to see dan climb at all but since he managed to hang onto his title for the 8th yr running i can only assume he kicked some booty. i climbed fairly well in the preliminaries but my masters challenge made it clear to me there's some work to be done before august. good weather, good fun, and now i'd like to sleep a week please..


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## rbtree (May 13, 2004)

congrats, Kathy!!!


Wish I coulda been there...but that windstorm has left me little time to myself.

Here's what's left of a 90 foot hemlock, after we lifted it off the house with the new GRCS.


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## MasterBlaster (May 13, 2004)

It sounds like you and Dan had FUN! I'll be waiting for you to figure out the picture thing. Any questions, just axe!


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 21, 2004)

I wonder where all the young ladies have gone?


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## pbtree (Nov 22, 2004)

Good question - perhaps the recent turbulent waters have kept them at bay. 

For my part I found their dialog to be quite refreshing...


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