# Buying a saddle



## Kevin (Sep 2, 2001)

I`m buying a saddle and thought I better ask for some input before doing so.
What I`m looking for is a good comfortable and effective saddle, I`m not so concerned with the cost factor but considering the 15% reduction from Sherrill I`m leaning towards one of their saddles.
Are the rolling D`s a big advantage?
Thanks.


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## treeclimber165 (Sep 2, 2001)

Don't get the ones with a single rolling D ring. Your shirt, skin on your forarms, and sometimes your nipples will get pinched in the roller just when you are not expecting it. A buddy of mine bought one like that about 5-6 years ago and had me try it out. He didn't like it either, used it for 3 weeks and retired it. 
I'd suggest going to a local supply house and trying on a few. For what they cost, most places better be willing to let you try them on before plunking down the greenbacks. Kinda like asking about favorite saws, everyone's tastes are different. What is most important is that it fits YOU and you can trust it with your life. :angel:


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## Kevin (Sep 2, 2001)

Brian, that`s one of the problems I`m up against.
There`s nobody within several hundred miles at least that I know of where I can even see one.
I called a local tree company and they don`t even know where I can get any form of training.
I`ve been pole climbing on spurs for about twenty seven years now but this will be totally new for me.


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## Treebeard (Sep 2, 2001)

If your'e not in a rush to get one I'd suggest attending a trade show for arborists. Most of the gear makers were at the ISA conference in Milwaukie & the NAA on is coming up there this Fall I believe. Another option would be to order the one you feel best about & try it on, then return it unused if you simply don't like it.


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## Kevin (Sep 2, 2001)

I`ll be attending a foresters/logging show in Michigan very soon and I hope to see some climbing gear there but I don`t know if the stuff will be present there.

http://www.forestindustry.com/lakestatesloggingcongress/visitor/visitor.htm


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 3, 2001)

If you don't do alot of big removals, things where you need a lot of gear, most of the saddles out there will do. I like the Blair models because the belt comes out and you can add extra clips of jangly stuff to them on big jobs. Extra 'biners, friction savers pullies... I talked to Don B. and Tim Walsh and the new SSA model should be finished sometime this fall. I looked at the prototype Tim has and like it.

The Komet butterfly is a very good saddle, I've tried it out, it can be modified with little effort (many people do). I comes on and off very easily and is comfortable. They had it out to a number of climbers before mass production.

The Buck. series are ok. I've been on a Master for a while, I dont like the little D's, but they say you can special order them with larger ones. Small is cool in the summer, but when I have a jacket on they are hard to find.

New tribe has a comfortable looking step in rig, I know 2 people that climb in them from time to time. Cant see it for big work, but if your just doing thinning work it is light weight.


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## X-man (Sep 3, 2001)

Kevin,


Your best bet is to wait and see if they have any at that show. I have purchased more than one saddle that I turned around and sold because it wasn't comfy or didn't feel right to me. "I never buy unless I try"or a trustworthy arbo. Of course you have already heard this.
My saddle preference is a floating D style. The saddle I've been using for 6 years is the Traverse from Buckingham. I also use a Versatile and a Komet"Butterfly" for recreational 
climbs. These are all really nice Floating D saddles in my opinion. A floating D slides for your body instead of you having to twist your body like in fixed D ring saddles, however some arbo's complain the Floating D hurts there sides more. I personally enjoy a floating D and would recommend it.

Different ropes for dif. folks,
X-man 

Heres a advanced tree clmbing site to look at:


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## Kevin (Sep 3, 2001)

X, thanks for the link ... looks like a dandy!


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## treetrunk (Sep 3, 2001)

I agree with the X man about floating dees, they really do make climbing out on the ends of branches a nicer and sometimes easier experience. I personally use the komet butterfly as my main harness, as i like the lightweight stlye and the ease of taking it on and off, and the floating dee strap works a treat. Good luck. See you at the top.


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## treerex (Sep 3, 2001)

There seem to be a lot of great saddles on the market these days. I started out using a Petzl Navjo Vario and then went to a Buckingham Traverse. WOW what a difference. The built in rigid seat (bosun?) is fantastic for extending your tolerable "hang-time" and it is tough as nails. But as a lot of the folks are saying...try before you buy if you can. The trade shows are good for that. Peace


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## Kevin (Sep 3, 2001)

What`s the difference (if any) between a recreation type saddle and a saddle for commercial tree work?


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## WillClimb (Sep 4, 2001)

*TreeRex - Buckingham Traverse*

TreeRex -
Just wondering about the Traverse. Have you noticed any limitations in mobility? I'm using Weaver's basic saddle with the leg straps and I'm looking for more comfort. I've been told that the Traverse is awesome except that the rigid seat bar cause a little loss of movement. The person that told me hadn't used one for any extended period of time so he may have just been spouting off hearsay. 

Also, do you still look cool in this saddle or is there a 'dorkiness factor' with that long bar across your butt? Kidding


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## monkeypuzzle (Sep 4, 2001)

My guess is that moving around in a tree would be a pain with the Bosun seats.They are designed to be just what they are.If you do a lot of pruning and are hanging around in the tree a lot I think they would have an advantage.Pinnacle,Traverse,and Versatile.Is the seat on a size small the same size seat on a size medium?I have sat in one of these saddles,not sure now which one and it felt silly,I took it off pretty quick ....as long as they keep making the Master I will be happy it just works really well for me, .......and remember that if you do buy one of these saddles you have a choice on the sizes of D-rings.Was the Bosun seat first used for window cleaners??????????


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## Tim Walsh (Sep 4, 2001)

*Saddles*

Kevin,

The main difference between recreational and production tree climbing saddles is the production tree saddles have to meet or exceed ANSI A10.14-1991 Class II standard.

TMW


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 4, 2001)

Bosun comse from the British Naval argot that contracted alot of terms.

Bosun = Boatswain I dont know what it means, but it is a warrent officers billet now. I think he was the PO in charge of the small boats. The Bosuns chair was for working over the side ot transfering between ships at sea.

Foc'sle = fore castle, the storage room in the prow of the ship.

Cox'n = Coxwain another warrent, dont know what he did sept beat people. Tom ?


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## Kevin (Sep 4, 2001)

Thanks for all the suggestions and information.
Things could be looking up!
There was a contractor in the office today and I just happened to ask him about climbing and training.
He gave me the name of an outfit that certifies Arborists and I found their site on the web.
They don`t have anything scheduled this year but I might get put on a calling list, the fellow I had to speak with will be in their office tomorrow so I`ll call back then.
In the meantime I think I`ll get the saddle,rope and hardware so I can get use to it while waiting for the course.


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## treerex (Sep 15, 2001)

*Traverse Saddle*

I've had really good luck with the Traverse. I use it for ALL of my work including removals and trimming/pruning. The only time I've noticed limitations related to the "seat" is when I have to sit astride a limb. I have learned to keep the leg loops just loose enough to allow me to slide the rigid seat up high on my backside to avoid this problem. I have logged countless hours in this saddle. I love the sliding D and the overall durability of the thing. But, not every saddle is for everybody or body and it pays to try before you buy.


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 28, 2001)

*Saddle comfort*

When it comes time to buy a saddle, be very aware of how the leg straps support your thighs. There are many saddles on the market that have a deserved reputation as crotch biters.

The best way to try saddles is to attend the TCI show in November. 

For many years I climbed on a Blair Ultra Light. The saddle is hard to beat. This year I shifted to the Komet Butterfly. This saddle is lightweight, easy to get into and out of and super comfortable.

Tom


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## The Climber (Sep 28, 2001)

I am verry happy with the traverse. I would suggest getting a petzl William beener and HDP roller to use in place of the D-rings provided


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 29, 2001)

If you work in cold weather, watch out for those ballock 'biners. The snow melts from your fingers then refreezes in the mechanism. Last winter I had to hold the gate a few seconds every time I wanted to open them up on a job in 20deg weather. I stowed them after I got down, stuck with the Kong autolock since.

One thing I have done on my Master is put delta links in wherever I use a safety clip. Put the gate outboard. Much easier then the fabric, and they sit better then a oval link.


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## lhampton (Oct 5, 2001)

JPS,

Which version of the Masters saddle do you use. I have heard they changed more than just the color. I have one of the early orange and blue models and get nibbled at on occasion. Im wondering if the later models are any more comfortable.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 6, 2001)

Mines like 2-3 years old, small d's and such. Same color as yours. I heard they tweeked it a little.

I'm still waiting to see the Blair saddle that Don designed with the SSA people.

I'll probibly going with a full body on my next rig too. More room to put stuff .


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## seanlarkin (Oct 8, 2001)

The new master saddle (as well as the other 3 in the ArborMaster Series) is made so you can use legstraps or a bosun or both; you attach/detach whatever you want. Unluckily for us (Sherrill and I), Buckingham introduced these saddles to the public before telling us about them, so we don't have any in stock, and I'm not sure when they'll be in.  Oh well, back at it. (maybe I'll get the site up some time this week).
-Sean


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## Kevin (Oct 8, 2001)

Hey, I like that idea.  

Do I detect a clearance sale?


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## seanlarkin (Oct 9, 2001)

A clearance sale?!  I don't really see us having to do that. Speaking of sales, check out the inside front cover of TCI and ArborAge magazines for our new ad campaign. I spent much effort putting it together with the help of Bryan Kotwica. There's also going to be an online contest related to the ad, but I suppose I should get the site up first, huh.
-Sean


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## scottdb (Nov 6, 2001)

I just love all the new stuff on the market. As an old Mt. climber i was among many arbos who began the transition to modern gear that was originally developed for Mt. climbing. Gear freaks in the tree industry! Who would have thought...

I know of no "recreational" harness except New Tribes? By the way they have ANSII rating now on several models. I often use a rock climbing harness for rec climbing to save weight although I feel weird in a tree without a tree rig.

I'd agree that you should try out a saddle if you can. Lightweight is the way to go and I would stay away from the old styles with lots of leather and metal. Different body shapes can affect comfort from a harness style.

I have been using an early Komet with a batten seat (Bosun's chair is from sailing not window washing! Same place that the majority of modern knots came from.). It is avery nice rig. Absolutely no problems from the batten getting around a tree. I have a Petzl with the batten seat and shoulder harness too. Not a very good design for wear and tear and I have had to modify the shoulder harness to make it comfortable, also it is hard to get in and out of. I also have a heavier (olod fashioned) harness for big conifer removals where I am on my hips and spurs the whole time. 

My first saddle was in NY in 1974 and it weighed a ton. An old Buckingham I think. Manilla rope was what we dangled from. Later in Olympia WA. We made our own saddles using truck tie down webbing sewed on an industrial machine. I climbed in that saddle for 20 years. Still have it and would still trust it.

Recently a pal of mine took some old homeade rock climbing saddles made in the 70's and acommercially produced Whillans rock harness of the same vintage and tested them at REI's facility. They all held several UIAA falls with no failure. Gear lasts a long time with proper care. 

I remember a mentor of mine teasing us about our new fangled perlon climbing ropes. He could climb anything we could on his old nylon Goldline. (and with only one toe!) His message was pointing out that it is most important to know what you are doing and that simple gear can often get the job done! First post...got carried away....


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## treeclimber165 (Nov 6, 2001)

*Welcome, Scott!*

I've never gotten into all the different belts. Bought a Karl Kummerling (sp?) because that is what was available locally. Didn't like the Buckingham's, too hot with the 8" back pad. (Had to use one at Davey) Been using the same style belt for 15 years, on my 3rd now. 
I agree with your mentor about understanding CLIMBING first, then adapt whatever fancy frilly crap you want into your arsenal. Simple is usually best, IMHO. But I also realize that I have limited myself by not being open to new ideas and equipment. Oh, well. Doesn't look like I will be doing a lot more climbing anyway, since my fall last year. I still have my gear bag and have climbed 4-5 times in the last year.
Again, welcome! Glad to have one more Pro's opinion.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 7, 2001)

I've trained a number of new climbers and always had them tie an anchor on a safety clip with a tail to start moving in small trees. Use a 10 ft prussick flipline and a handsaw, nothing else. Usualy an old KK saddle with the leather buckles in the groch area. KIS and then add on from there, if you are only an occational climber you can still KIS. No 30ft grillon lanyard, rack decender, two friction savers in reserve, extra 'biners, 3-4 redirects....


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## WillClimb (Nov 8, 2001)

*Petzl Navaho Vario*

Has anyone tried this saddle? Do you like?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 8, 2001)

I've borrowed one. Know some guys who use them for inspections and rec climbing. Kinda light for regular tree work. Here it moves around alot. Komet Butterfly is the rage these days. Might get one myself.


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## WillClimb (Nov 9, 2001)

*Komet Butterfly*

John -
I've looked all over the internet for this saddle to no avail! Cant find it anywhere. Any ideas?
Thanks - Will


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 10, 2001)

*B'fly*

Scroll down a ways to see the butterfly:

http://www.kong.it/climbin2.htm


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## WillClimb (Nov 15, 2001)

Tom -
Saw your picture in a tree-climber-training ad in my Fresco catalogue. You were pictured next to three young bucks. I bet ya can outclimb the lot of them  I dont know, these guys had some serious accolades.

Just ordered the Butterfly from them by the way. Anxiously awaiting its arrival.


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## tree md (Nov 16, 2001)

I couldn't tell by the ad, does it work on rolling d or double d?


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 16, 2001)

The B'fly is a rolling d. You can use one or two biners to tie in. I can't imagine why anyone would use two biners on a floating d though. By attaching to the aluminum rings you can step through and work in front of your rope.

http://www.frescoinc.net/arborist/arborist.htm


Tom


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## WillClimb (Nov 16, 2001)

So, when using a split-tail setup: you're saying to to girth-hitch your split-tail directly to one of the D-Rings, and then terminate your climbing line with a double-fisherman's into the 'biner, which will then be clipped to the other D? Or is there only one rolling D on the B'Fly?


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 16, 2001)

There is only the yellow strap included.

I use a LockJack or Mimono,

http://www.cutright.stn.net/verticalpro/index.html


so I only have one saddle attachment. You could use a delta screw link as a slider on the yellow webbing. If you did, you might consider tweaking the screw just a ti-i-iny bit with a pliers to eliminate the possibility of a rope unscrewing the link.

Many climbers modify their saddle, at their own risk, voiding manufacturers liability, and change the yellow strap to something a little shorter. This keeps your hitch lower, away from your face.

Tom


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## WillClimb (Nov 16, 2001)

The B'Fly doesn't come with the D-Rings already on it?
Can you just use a 'biner as the rolling D? Would you HAVE to use one of those HDP Rollers with it?


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 16, 2001)

Nope, no d-ring on the yellow strap. You could use one of those rollers. In my experience, the only place those rollers are really needed are on saddles that have a rough, sticky strap on the front. Before I modified my B'fly I just used Petzl Am'd biners and they slipped nicely.

Tom


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## WillClimb (Nov 16, 2001)

Great! Thanks, Tom.


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 17, 2001)

Here are some more pictures of the B'fly in action:

http://www.louisianaarborist.com/Thumbs/

Tom


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## jsirbasku (Nov 17, 2001)

Will,
I have a b'fly and have not modified it(yet)! I am not so sure that I will modify it either , most people as Tom said, replace the strap between the alum rings because it is a little long and after youve clipped in your hitch is further away from you than you may be used to. I have long arms(simian thing ya know) and i have typically always liked my hitch far away, when you need to body thrust you go much further with each stroke and your muscles can pull better from further out than in real close. Sometimes on a limb walk when you come close to horizontal with your tie in and your reaching and streching to get out to the end of the limb, youll find that your hitch is just out of reach. This can sometimes be challenging. 
I guess what im saying is that I like the b'fly just the way it is and may or may not modify it in the future. It is very comfortable, lightweight, has plenty of room for gadgetry and does threaten the family jewels like some other saddles i have tried.

For clipping in I use one biner with a spliced split tail and climb line.

I also climb in a New Tribe work Harness, another very comfortable saddle that I really like.

Tom, I looked at the pictures on the above link, I cannot tell exactly what you have in place of the yellow strap. Last i saw you had the steel hoop on there, but now it looks like something new,
What is it?

J sirbasku


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## jsirbasku (Nov 17, 2001)

Tom, 
I found a better picture,

looks like webbing strap fed thru garden hose?
with biners clipped through webbing of harness and knot the alum rings?


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 17, 2001)

John,

We missed you at the MnTCC but you had more important things to do that day  

That picture was of Version II. I took a twelve inch Spectra Super Tape sling and girth hitched one side to the aluminum ring and then used a screw link on the other. After that, III, I slid a piece of fiber reinforced plastic over the webbing. This is the tubing that is used for the spray nozzle at the kitchen sink. This saves wear on the webbing.

I went through a couple of versions before settling on the stainless rod. I just added a swivel pulley on Wednesday:

http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0401

The one with the closed eye. So far, it seems to swivel nice. At 1/3 the price of a Petzl swivel and a pulley, it is a deal.


I talked with them and they rate the swivel that I bought on a 5:1 safety factor. This company has the best prices on SS gear. I am going to get some shackles to trick out my saddle. The SS ones are lighter and stronger than the steel ones from MR.

Tom


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## jsirbasku (Nov 17, 2001)

so you do still have the metal hoop? Still the original w mild steel or have gone to the next level and fabricated the arc out of hardened or stainless? I like the idea of a pulley underneath. I have consisered replacing the strap with round rope to accomodate a pulley, but didnt want attachment knots at the rings and im sure the distance between the rings is too short for a splice( let alone 2) the super tape with prtective cover is a great idea!


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## WillClimb (Nov 20, 2001)

J -

Just wondering about the split tail. So, the split-tail itself is girth-hitched to the 'biner. Then, the end of the climbing line is attached to the same 'biner with a knot? Seems like all that rope that would throw the 'biner off balance a little. You using a double-fisherman for the non-spliced line?

Well, the saddle should be in today so I'll check it out.


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## jsirbasku (Nov 20, 2001)

will,
I use a hollow braid split tail , which yes is girth hitched to the biner, and the climb line is also spliced which is not girth hitched to the biner, just clipped in.
The hollow braid even when girth hitched does not take up a lot of space.
It is a very sleek system with very little slop or play , even while body thrusting( which i do a lot of).


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## WillClimb (Nov 21, 2001)

J - (or anyone)
That's an awesome picture and it helps a lot. One question though: 
I thought the whole reason for a split-tail setup, was so that there would be a separate 'biner to unclip, allowing you to quickly advance the climbing line to a new crotch without untying the hitch - as in the alternate lanyard technique. How can this be accomplished with both lines terminating into the same 'biner?
Thanks - 
Will


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 21, 2001)

John,

Great picture, can you show us the rest of the peg board? Is that in your shop or in your truck?

That is a nice compact setup. If a person wanted more room on the biner, an HMS style biner could be used. It is tidier to have only one biner. For recrotching all the climber has to do is drop out the spliced end. Not difference than unclipping a second biner.

When is Thanksgiving Day in Canada? Do you eat turkey with all the fixins like the Americans?

Tom


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## WillClimb (Nov 21, 2001)

OK, understood. The less gear, the less mess. I cant stand the 'biners catching on each other when body-thrusting anyway. It can make your heart jump if you're not paying attention.

So, is there any reason why the climbing line (XTC Pro, I'm assuming) isn't girth hitched like the split-tail?


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 21, 2001)

John will give you his reasons I am sure.

My preferance is to use a tight eye splice in the climbing line. By girth hitching the split tail it captures the biner incase the climber comes under the spell of the evil "Fumblies". It is SUCH a bummer to drop biners... 

The eye splice is quick and easy to slip on and off.

Tom


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## jsirbasku (Nov 22, 2001)

Hey guys,

The main reason i dont use 2 biners is because of the slop in the bridge when not loaded, ie; (body thrusting), always when body thrusting that lone biner under the bridge of the split tail seems to flopp around a bit and sometimes get twisted up in a funny way, youve probably experienced it. This always drove me nuts, not to mention the noise of all the hardware clanging around.
With just the one biner for splittail and working end of the line when i pull up into a body thrust, the bridge still slacks of coarse, but the biner is held into position by the constant pull of the climbing line in front of me, so there is hardly anyways slop going on., as i said erarlier i tie my hitch out a ways ,it is usually at my full arms length away. This makes body thrusting much faster. Ive tried other hitches such as th VT, MT (or whatever), also tried the schwabisch, but all of those hitches are too short for my preference and do not allow for proficient body thrusting.

The reason the climb line is not girth hitched is because, well,
well Will Im not sure. I havent exactly tried it but i think just clipping into the splice(ungirthed) is a little quicker(fraction of a second maybe). Anyway when recrotching all i do is buck in somewhere of coarse, then open up the biner and remove only the working end of the line, the biner stays clipped into to the harness along with split tail end of the rig. Then I simply pull the line from my 1st tie in and place thru my new tie in, then i open up that biner again and drop the spliced eye back into position.

I caryy with me a second FC, a second biner with split tail and the other end of my line is also spliced, i usually have that 2nd end of line all set up to go and clipped on my saddle for a dual tie in. I can set up a second tie in in seconds by doing this, wihtout having to pullup the other end of the line attaching a snp or biner and clipping in, then tying in a hitch. Again the other end is rigged and ready to go, merely clip the rig into harness, put the line thru the tie in and back to your self.

Also will, i do carry a second biner for each rigged end of the line, just in case i may want 2 biners in the system. This is helpful when using your line as a 2nd lanyard during ascent, or sometimes for splitting apart the climb line. to work between them.

Tom - i had a feeling youd be one to ask about my "drawing board" in the back ground. Ive recntly framed and sheetrocked my garage interior and figured i had to set up an area for my climbing / rigging ideas to take off from. Not much on it just some spare biner, snaps, slings etc, and some older ascenders im considering retiring and what not.

PS Im more than happy to post pics of anything of interest to you boys(well not anything!) Let me know, if i dont have a pic to show i can take one.

Time to get ready to prepare some Turkey for tonights feast, I wish you all a happy and safe thanksgiving holiday. I'll check back this evening, that is if im still awake.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 23, 2001)

Have you tried Mahk Adams adjustable bridge? 

OOPS, I told him I'd call it the adams bridge from now on  .


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## jsirbasku (Nov 24, 2001)

JPS,

please elaborate John,
"Adams" adjustable bridge?

help me out, same thoery, different hitch/cord variations?


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 24, 2001)

John,

If you go to the-discussion-forum-that-we-aren't supposed-to-name-here and follow the "Distal hitch" and Mahks thread titled "Sliding (Adjustable) Bridge" you will see what JPS is talking about. Also, it is in the Climbers Corner in the current Arborist News, the host of the-discussion-forum-that-we-aren't supposed-to-name-here 

Tom


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 24, 2001)

*Adam's bridge (Mahk one)*

Mahk's article is best but it is basicly a long splitail with a large spliceye that uses a girth prussick on the working end of the line and a Blake's on the running end with the slack tending suff added in there. You end up being suspended on the one end of your rope and able to move the bridge as far out as your long arms desire. I'm just waiting to remeber to order a splitail to try it out


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## jsirbasku (Nov 25, 2001)

thanks guys i'll haed over to that other site and check it out,
and dont worry Darin Ill be back!


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## Ghivelder (Dec 7, 2001)

Hi Tom,
So I found you again while browsing around...
I always climb on Petzl's Navaho Vario and find it a very well balanced saddle. Of course being so light is it's main feature and it's a personal matter to consider it an advantage or not. I think it is most of the time. For heavy rigging work I use an add-on back pad (the one Sherrill had 2 or 3 years ago). The reason I like the Vario is because I feel good with a tight squeeze on my lower hip (no jokes, please), which is impossible to attain with the butterfly which has a completely different setting. No doubt the butterfly has a great future in tree-climbing, but since almost everyone that uses it feel like changing it in one way or another, I think they've got still some adjustments to make. The Vario is a basic saddle but with years of "field-work" practice behind. I guess sometimes one centimeter more or less on a crucial spot can make a huge difference on a saddle.
Greetings from Italy...

Sergio
http://www.tree-climbing.com


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## DDM (Feb 13, 2002)

*Saddle*

Has anyone ever used a Karl Kuemmerling saddle?

Later,
David


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 14, 2002)

If you like the old fashiond things. Fresco is selling the Butterfly by Komet of France. It is the latest rage. Probibly the easiest saddle to tweek to your bodies comfort. Some guys run "super modifed" versions. Next i would say the Blair modular system is best.

A lot of people ar turning to shoulder straps too, hold the saddle up and mor space to add jingly stuff to it. In Canada they did a study on comfort and full bodey saddles, turned out most experiance climbers prefered the suspenders after the study finnised.


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## treeman82 (Feb 14, 2002)

JPS- Where can I find info on that saddle you are talking about? My saddle that I use now is about 3 years old and sometimes it bothers me. Wouldn't mind checking out something new. The one I use now is the Weaver "Climber's Best?"


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## DDM (Feb 14, 2002)

I'm Currently using a Weaver with the leg straps
I cant think of the model off hand But it bunches up And a fellow offered me a Karl Kuemmerling New
never worn. >Shrugg< Might be nice to have a change up.

Later,
David


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## treeman82 (Feb 14, 2002)

Dave, if yours is the 4 D ring saddle then we are using the same thing. My saddle is equipped with the spreader snap rope clip. I am just tired of only being able to turn so much and experiencing the discomfort / disorientation of the saddle when doing so. I also don't like when it's cold out that I have to fight with the saddle a lot to get it where I won't fall out. But then when I do that the saddle then scrapes up my sides. I also don't like how it wears when I am carrying a lot of weight off my sides (pulleys / chainsaws / ropes / etc)


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 14, 2002)

Fresco is the only person caring it in North America. 

http://www.frescoinc.net/arborist/arborist.htm

no online catalog, they got a small one.

Komet has a website but I cannot find it. Tom D may have it. He loves his butterfly.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 15, 2002)

The komet does not have any ANSI labels on it.
The little snaps on it break at around 1500 lb.s, I've heard.


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## rbtree (Feb 15, 2002)

For everyday climbing, I wouldn't touch any of the basic saddles, Weaver, etc.

The modular Sierra Blair, butt stap or leg loops, is a good olderschool saddle, and still great for straightforward removals. OK for pruning.

But the Buckingham's are the new workhorse. Many options, customizable. Versatile, then the Traverse are the best two of the seat batten models. The new Master seems nice for a streamlined leg loop saddle. I can comfortably hang a 16 lb saw from them, but the optional suspenders would be a bonus.

Sherril's has a special on them. likely cause the new modulars are out. with them you can get a belt, then add both or either the Master or any of the batten models. VERY Nice, i'm sure they will be pricey though.


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## Bradley (Feb 15, 2002)

I second that motion. I started out with a Weaver buttstrap and thought that saddles were supposed to be torture devices. I got a Buckingham Versatile a while back and love it to death. the one I have is covered in black suede and is very durable and has lots of support in the back. With the bosun seat, you don't cut off your circulation either. Using the hdpe rollers with the Petzl William carabiners for sliding tie in points is slick as well.


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## MSAUERS (Feb 25, 2002)

Hey guys what's up? I'm a new user to this forum, but have been reading posts/replies for a lil while. I have been in the tree industry for 3 years. I use a Buckingham Traverse saddle, it's the most comfortable saddle i've been in. The sliding D makes me wonder why anyone would want the traditional style when that's available. I also love the back support and bosun seat, they really built a great saddle.


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## DDM (Mar 1, 2002)

Well The saddle finally arrived i havent used a saddle without legstraps before so i'll try it out
i was in my Regular Weaver for about 5 hrs today 
if i turn just right it pinches me on the thigh 
this New Karl Kuemmerling Looks identical to a Weaver 4-Dee without the leg straps only problem i see is that it only has 3 goody holders And i'm used to 8!!!!!! I'll try it out tommorrow and decide if it goes to Ebay or not.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 13, 2002)

*Do sliding "D" rings...*

suck or just blow?

I guess I don't get what the deal is with them. It makes it physically harder to climb, for me, so I'm trying to figure out the advantage. 
With a centered "D", when you just relax your weight on tho the belt, it rolls you to a centered position with no effort. With slippery "D" rings, you have got to use abdominal muscles to straighten back out, and to keep yourself straight. If you were hanging from your rope, and you wanted to turn sideways for some reason, it may be easier if your "D" slides, but then turning back is a drag. And how often do you hang off your line and turn sideways?
If you are not hanging from your line, then it does not seem to be advantageous to have your ring slide, heck, you just turn. If it bothers you for some odd reason, just go between your two climbing line leads.
I'm now climbing on a saddle with sliding attachment points and didn't like it, so I rigged a little kevlar utiity cord to prevent it from sliding, and find it much easier to climb.


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## treeclimber165 (Apr 13, 2002)

The last time I tried a belt with a sliding D ring, I got pinched on the backside of my arm to the point of bleeding! I agree with you about being harder for me to turn back facing my rope. I'll never buy a belt with a sliding D, unless the seller can GUARANTEE it will never pinch me! I don't wanna try that twice.


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## DDM (Apr 13, 2002)

Ive Noticed The same that mike is describing.My saddle has 2 fixed & 2 sliding rings I use the fixed rings to tie into And the sliding rings for safety lanyards ect.


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## rbtree (Apr 13, 2002)

i used to use a sliding d setup, it was OK, but could cause some problems as you guys have brought up. i know a lot of guys who still use and like it. My Versatile has that option, and in fact, I have the plastic rollers (Paul Sisson's idea), but prefer to use my fixed loops. I usually use the ones that put my line attachments about 8 inches apart. This is comfy, and allows for quick turnarounds to work facing directly away from your tie in, a great setup for those long reaches and/or pole saw work.

Rog


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 13, 2002)

Like anything else, it is an individual thing. I know guys who will never go back and others, like y'all who hate them.

I think they are too shifty for my tastes. I've only tried them out, never did any owrk in one.


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## dan kraus (Apr 15, 2002)

I personally love the sliding "D". It gives me freedom of movement. I find with the fixed center, if I turn at all it's fighting to bring me back to center. When I'm moving about the tree and going out limbs my sliding "D" is to one side or another. To have a straight pull in the center I'd have to walk backwards from my tie in. It's also nice to be able to push it aside when standing on a branch, and working right in front of myself.

I don't care for the fast rollers on my sliding"D", to touchy. I like some friction to help keep it at just the right spot.

I know some fantastic climbers that like the fixed point though, so to each his own.
:Monkey:


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## Shespen (Apr 15, 2002)

I've been using the sliding "D" for years now and I like the adjustability of it. Maybe I'm just used to it but I hated the old double "D" with the splitter between them. I have short arms and I like having my climbing knots within easy reach.

The thing that I like the most about the sliding "D" is when it rolls across my stomach and rolls up my shirt, hair and belly button lint and rips it all out. Thats when I know it's time to lay off the beer.

Steve


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 15, 2002)

I'm with Dan on this one.

The advantage of having a well designed sliding d saddle is that your spine isn't twisted when you turn to face your work. With my tweaked out Butterfly I can turn about three hundred andtwnety degrees without my spine going out of vertical alignment. 

When I climbed on a fixed D saddle my back would get twisted or the saddle would twist on my hips. Either way, that doesn't work.

The sliding d does take a little getting used to. After that short time, I think its better for the climber's back.

Before I got my Butterfly I climbed for many years on a Blair Ultra-Light with a floating single d. Thats a nice saddle too.

165 and Mike, what make and model saddles are you using now and what make and model sliding d saddle didn't you like? Just becaues one manufacturer hasn't solved the riddle of a sliding d, try and keep an open mind to the possibility that another has solved the riddle.

Tom


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 16, 2002)

I'm in a Comit Butterfly. 
I notice the strap is wearing out fast. My thought for replacement is along the lines of a chain which would allow for several different fixed attachment points, definitely not another sliding deal.
Tom, I noticed that your "tweaking" resolves the issue of self centering.
There is little difference in turning away from your tie in point in either saddle, it's the effort required to get back to center that differs, along with the effort to stay centered as you work. A center attachment point(or Tom's steel rig) only requires you lean back on the rope and you self center. 
Use of a sliding D is about the same as hanging all your weight from your lanyard when it is attached to your side D rings.
Also, a sliding D only allows about 90 degrees of rotation before you are in the same situation as a fixed D, anyway, so once you turn around and start working it' still doing the things you don't like about fixed D saddles.
Admittedly the difference is subtle, but why make your job harder?


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## rbtree (Apr 16, 2002)

Mike, that would make the Butterfly more like the Versatile. I use the fixed loops, rather than the sliding setup, mainly out of habit. But I do like the convenience, simplicity, and speed of my current system. I've seen how Paul Sisson attached his sliding setup, it just looked more cumbersome. Not using the rollers would be simpler, and less jerky, for sure. I'll check to see exactly how Dan Kraus does it.

And that will be Friday, when he shows up to film another great tree, only this time it is a preservation job! It is a 78.5" dbh giant tulip tree, that Scott Baker and I will nominate to be the new Washington State Champion! I'm also nominating it for the Seattle/Plant Amnesty Heritage Tree Program. I'm gonna try to get them to help me produce a video of the tree, the pruning, Cobra cabling, and the future dedication. we will be able to get a couple of the luminaries in the tree for the ceremony. Plus I plan to nominate, and shoot, the large elm in one of my best customer's yard. It may be the best elm is town, at over 4.5 feet dbh, and around 110 feet tall and wide. Spectacular setting, Cascade Mt view, super, huge yard with many great trees, including another elm, two big atlas cedar, declining paulownia, koelreuteria, Jap maple, plus a 5' dbh bigleaf maple which hangs over the awesome house. I've pruned it several times and installed at least five Cobra systems.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 16, 2002)

I really like that feature of the Versatile. If it's the saddle I'm thinking of, with a row of attachment points across the front made from webbing material. Each carabiner has it's own place to clip and stay orginized. 
It also allows a centered lanyard attachment point, just outside the climbing line, without the mess of carabiners jammed all together.


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## Rob Murphy (Apr 19, 2002)

I have a B'ham traverse an I really like the sliding D's .I guess i have just got used to it now but it was a bit arkward at first. A friend has a comet...I dont think it performs up to his expectations.
Definatly less twisting pressure with my traverse than with a fixed biner rig IMHO.


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## Rob Murphy (Apr 19, 2002)

A friend has a comet...I dont think it performs up to his expectations.
I just remembered that he has tweeked and played around with the slidin setup on his!!!


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## MSAUERS (Apr 25, 2002)

*Sliding D's*

I've been using a B'ham Traverse for the past 3 years-my first saddle, and i wouldn't use another one, it's not showing many signs of wear along the sliding D strap and i think it's definately a good option to have in the tree. I also like the wide back support of B'ham saddles and the bosun seat.


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## Bradley (Apr 25, 2002)

I have the Versatile and use the rollers with the Petzl carabiners. IMHO it works great. None of the pain and spinal wrenching I had with my old buttstrap Weaver. I have two sliders on the strap, but only use one unless I have a second lifeline for getting hard to reach places. I think maybe my shirt got caught once, but it was no big deal, just shift the other way for a second and it comes out. The only time I use the fixed attachment points is when attaching my doubled ascenders for footlocking, or choking off a sling below my cut on a spar. I can't fathom going to any other saddle arrangement.


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## jsirbasku (Apr 27, 2002)

Mike,
Im confused, you state that you dislike sliding dees, but you climb in a butterfly saddle? Does this not function exactly the same as a sliding dee set up? 
You are going to use chain to replace the strap? Why ?
Chain is heavy and when you slack the system the links flop around with as much potential to pinch your skin or clothing when reloaded.
i use a butterfly(un-modified) and it works just fine, i do not have problems centering at all.

You could try a spreader snap between the two round rings, but this would only give one option for attachment


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 27, 2002)

This is the first sliding D saddle I have owned. After about a day and a half, I secured a piece of utility cord to stop most of the sliding.
That sliding is the only thing I don't like about the saddle.
I noticed almost everyone who has one of these saddles ends up modifying the strap.
I just don't like the extra work required to stay straight in a saddle with a sliding D. I guess it's suposed to make turning easier, but I haven't noticed that, just that it's a little more work to re-center and stay centered.
Perhaps I just need to give it more time, I don't know.


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## Rob Murphy (Apr 27, 2002)

*Any other comments on the Versitile*



> _Originally posted by Bradley _
> *I have the Versatile and use the rollers with the Petzl carabiners. IMHO it works great. None of the pain and spinal wrenching I had with my old buttstrap Weaver. I have two sliders on the strap, but only use one unless I have a second lifeline for getting hard to reach places. I think maybe my shirt got caught once, but it was no big deal, just shift the other way for a second and it comes out. The only time I use the fixed attachment points is when attaching my doubled ascenders for footlocking, or choking off a sling below my cut on a spar. I can't fathom going to any other saddle arrangement. *



Thanks Brad.
Yeh I am thinking of a versitile as my next harness!!
Any one else using ? what do you think?


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2002)

I just bought the new pro series and it`s well built.
I have the bosun and the leg straps for it.
I haven`t received the belt yet but I like what I have so far.
I tried hanging off a hook in the basement to get the feel of the leg straps and they were really comfortable.
I also tried the rolling D and it worked nicely but I`m anxious to get the belt and test the entire saddle in a tree.


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## Oxman (Apr 28, 2002)

I asked the local Vermeer dealer to order a Pro Versatile Bosun to try on. Last visit, they only had a handful of arborist gear hanging on the wall. I don't like buying stuff until I can be sure it fits. 

How well do HDP rollers slide past the biner pockets on the Versatile?

It seems the purpose of the modular approach would be if you were in between sizes on either the upper or lower unit. Say, you wanted a large belt and an XL batten seat, they could be switched. The result is a better fitting product that matches the myriad shapes of climbers bodies.

This feature is too advanced a concept for shoe manufacturers: I sometimes wish a slightly larger unit was available for my bigger left foot. I may go so far as to insert it in my mouth by suggesting that shoe dealers also need a smack up side the head for failing to offer mixed-size pairs. It is a little known fact that shoe store backrooms are filled with countless shoeboxes containing both whole and half-size pairs leftover from surreptitious, fit-conscious shoe buyers. It would be interesting to see how the ladies lingerie industry handles the issue. I especially appreciate the tolerance of the Arboristsite system operators that allows switching to a second, and even a third topic in a single paragraph by civilly-disobedient tree-surfers. 

Some people were hacksawing the d rings off the Traverse saddle, and replacing them with HDP rollers on a William biner. I heard a lower cost option was available without the rings for this application. Is this true? How is the leather version? Do the sizes 'run' large? 

The Sierra Moreno modular series allows suspenders to be slid onto the chassis. Does the Arbor Pro series allow a structural shoulder strap (ansi compliant)? The pic seems to show integral suspender attachment points, but the available suspenders don't appear to be of the fall arrest type. The advantage would be a usable harness for bucket work. I'm surprised this option wasn't exploited in this new design. It is difficult to see how the upper & lower halves of the harness mate up in the catalog photos. 

The current choice for a fall arrest harness seems to be the Petzl V2 bod. Will Petzl come up with a sliding d style saddle in response to the arborist market? They have been moving nicely in our direction. This combination would be quite the ticket.


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2002)

I had to gamble on the leg strap size, Sherrill didn`t have a method to size the leg straps but I ordered large leg straps to go with a large belt.
My leg is about 23.5" in girth at the top.
I can lengthen the straps plenty to allow for winter clothing and I still have a couple of inches to tighten if needed.
They`re a probably a little on the long side for my leg but I think I might be between a medium and a large.
I won`t know for certain how the leg straps attach to the belt until I get to look at it, there are straps on the leg harness which appear to attach to the belt.
The HDP rollers slide past the loops with ease.


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## Bradley (Apr 28, 2002)

I have the leather version and like it better than the nylon one. True, it is a little heavier, but wears longer and has more support in the belt. The HDP rollers ride on the bottom of the strap so they don't hit the tie in points. The only problem I have is that some times it is easy to sideload the biners so I watch them pretty good. I use Petzl Spirit non-locking bentgate biners in the slots on the belt because they are keylocks. Work great for hanging a saw from.


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2002)

Not sure what you mean, my Pro model is leather, at least the strap that the HDP roller rides on is leather.
I don`t have the body belt yet.


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## Bradley (Apr 29, 2002)

My versatile saddle is made of black suede with red nylon. It is heavier than the full nylon model but tougher and more supportive. The belt and hard seat are covered in the suede.


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## kf_tree (Jul 10, 2002)

*what saddles are most of you using?*

also, what buck strap do you prefer? and what is the advantage of a split tail system?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 10, 2002)

The biggestthing about split tail is that you dont need to untie to recrotch.

I use 30 ft peice of climbing line for my flip line. 

My saddel is a Master, but I'm probably going to a butterfly or a full body in the near future.


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## kf_tree (Jul 10, 2002)

one more thing. what do you carry on your saddle for an average tree? any extra do dads?


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## kf_tree (Jul 10, 2002)

paul
why 30 a foot flip line ( just seams way long)? how do you attach it? did you splice a snap? do you use a cam or prussik?


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## Kevin (Jul 10, 2002)

I`m using the Pro series Versatile, safety lanyard and carry an extra 8 in case I drop one  along with a few biners but my rope climbing is primarily recreation right now.
I`m not qualified to comment on the split tail.


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## treeclimber165 (Jul 10, 2002)

Old style Karl Kummerlin (sp?) basic saddle. For a flip line, I'm using the 4'-7' adjustable made with Blue Streak from Sherrill's. I used to use the 3 strand lanyard, but I like the Blue Streak much better. Lots of times I'll carry 2 up with me, especially on removals.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 10, 2002)

I consider the flip line to be a secondary TIP, not a scare strap. I can move 15 ft away from it, or flip it on a limb over my head. Most of it is daisychained up on a biner on my saddle, and i run it on a Grillon on a biner on the lower left loop of the saddle.

Lot'sa biners, an extra split tail for DBL crotching, extra micro-pulley light rigging pullies, maybe an eight, but I usualy use a munter on a biner. My ascenders for if I need to go back up a long pitch...lotsa jingly stuff. some slings...

Oh and my Zubat!


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## Bradley (Jul 10, 2002)

Buckingham Versatile. Steel core flipline w/microcender for pines and spars, stiff 1/2" Pmi static w/microcender for recreational climbing or when not on hooks, and like JPS, I have a 35 foot lanyard made of 7/16" Pmi static with a prusik and micro pulley that can be a flipline or secondary tie in point. This long lanyard is extremely versatile and great for a quick double crotch,and chains up to stay out of the way. I carry some 'biners, and a CMI double ended pulley, some slings and a fig. 8. Also 020t, 025, or corona handsaw hang off the side at diff times.


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## treeman82 (Jul 10, 2002)

I climb with a Weaver (climber's best?) All I really carry on it is; 2 adjustable buck straps, 1 split tail, sometimes a scabbord with 1 saw, nextel phone, and some other Misc. BS.


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## Kevin (Jul 10, 2002)

... which leads me to ask how many of you chain your ropes?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jul 10, 2002)

I use a komet butterfly saddle, and like it.
I like a long lanyard, like john paul, but not quite 30', so I daisy chain the unused portion.
I have aquired a whole shipload of stuff to carry but there's more stuff than I have room, so I pick and choose what I will need for each day.
I find it helps to remove everything from your saddle once and a while to get rid of the stuff that you don't use too often, then start adding the stuff you like back on.


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## kf_tree (Jul 10, 2002)

what kind of tree's are you guys climbing that such a long lanyard is used? i can understand the GA guy with all the live oaks down there. the tree's are wider than they are tall. what kind of tree's are you climbing in WI?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 10, 2002)

Any oak, honeylocust, white ash...

I started on 5-7 ft lanyards, but will never go back. The convieniance is great, I'm on a tippy limbwalk and I can swing the clip up on another limb to stabilize for cutting. 

When i prune I climb out to the tips on almost every tree.


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## Rob Murphy (Jul 11, 2002)

B'hM Traverse but looking around at the moment. Just got a new flipline 9' with spectra10mm french prussik on 13mm xtc. It is real smoooooth probably cause its new. Replaced the sliding D's with a Maline Rapid delta. William Spinball'sfor life support.Kong DbL on flipline. Spittail with French prussik 8 mm spectra on 13mm XtC. Have moved handsaw from harness to Calf, seems to work real well.Climbing Oaks,Eucs ,Elms.Will be in some Blackwoods (Acacia melanoxyon)tomorrow till the Bees are removed from the dead Euc we have to fall.
That's all from the Murph Report today.


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## rbtree (Jul 11, 2002)

B'Ham Versatile, (and old pinnacle), 12 foot Feeney (5/8th, green, tight woven,the best)steel core flipline w/ 5/8 gibbs and swivel snap. 8 foot lanyard for pruning smaller trees. I use my lifeline as second ascending lanyard. works same as 30 foot lanyard. (The reason for a long lanyard is to toss the line overhead quickly, besides being double ended, which is nice---I have a funky 18 foot one, so don't use it, need to get one for sure. Of course, lifeline has preattached friction knot on split tail, so it can be taken on and off quickly. One of three lengths of friction saver, both ringed and binered/pulleyed. Several extra biners. Three slings, fig 8 as needed, extra split tail/pulley which doubles as f/c, double tie in, or redirect.

By the way, the 3/8 double braid is working out great for the Schwabisch prussic, works 90 % as well as Vt, so far anyhow. I set pulley in same location as French prussic, for clean setup. It has the advantage of being able to add or subtract a wrap or two to adjust length,ie short for descending, long for ascending. And at about $1.50 per hitch, rather economical, eh?! Thanks Tom D for the tip. You da man!!!

Preferred ascension- SRT, or Ddrt with rope run through overhead pulley which is attached to another line and tied off to ground. Then belayed (Friction knot/ pulley fair lead is the self belay) by groundies, actually pulled up if the guys are heavy enough.Footlock for shorter freehanging ascents. body thrust for short, easy, branched climbs against the trunk ones. Easiest method of all, but crotch load is at least four times body weight, so proper/strong crotch selection is a MUST! Footlock for shorter freehanging ascents. body thrust for short, easy, branched climbs against the trunk ones.

Spike, I started tree work and mt climbing about the same time, in 73-75. but until I joined the ISA in 89, and started reading voraciously and networking, I was old school for sure. didn't think to carry over much mt gear, technique to the trees....While I was capable of doing extremely tough tree work, I used no blocks,or other advanced rigging climbing techniques. Of course, so did few arborists anywhere before about 1985. The current new school, crossover advances really starting taking off around 1996.


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## Acer (Jul 11, 2002)

I'm on a Komet Butterfly, after using a Willans T22 sit harness. I prefer the Komet, tho it took a while to get used to the leg loop style of harness. I had a go years ago with a leg loop harness and suffered chronic testicle entrapment :blob5: Now I know how to adjust it, I don't have that problem any more.

I always take a handsaw - Silky Natanoko. I know everyone likes those curved Zubats, but I often find a sink cut is useful in some situations, and it's more accurate with a straight bladed saw like the Natanoko. 

I'd normally have a few strops to help with hand held sections, plus old karabs to link these up if I'm worried about weight of limb. Often, there's a redirect strop, plus various karabs. 5m/15 ft lanyard, friction saver (on the way up) more often than not, personal 1st aid kit. And last, and in fact least, a Stihl 020T


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## WillClimb (Jul 11, 2002)

Komet Butterfly - nice saddle!

Stihl MS200T

Grillion Lanyard - but I plan to look into the longer ones
Blue Streak Split Tail - JPS, like the idea of the 2nd tail. I've just been tying my 2nd crotch (of a double crotch) with a bowline and a blakes hitch.

Couple of extra biners - I like the Petzl Williams

Webbing Sling - daisy chained until I hang a drink from it. Also use it for false crotching sometimes.

My purse - that's what the wife calls it anyway. It's an old crappy small black bag with a velcro flap. It carries smokes, cell phone, hand pruner, business cards to throw out of the tree, etc.

Fanno 13" curved hand saw


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## kf_tree (Jul 11, 2002)

i started with a weaver saddle then went with thebucking ham pinnacle from wespur because they gey them with the larger d rings. its such a comfy saddle. i used to climb with 2 nylon belts but once i went with the sherrill steel core flip line i just carry one belt now. i have a gibbs on my 12 foot line and a petzl (not the micro, its a little bigger)on my 8 foot line. they both work well, the rubber coating on the gibbs wears away quickly and the spings break but they still work fine. i carry some nylon/ spectra weave rock slings with me now. they come in handy for taking doubles and false crotch's.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 12, 2002)

I think the next big thing in saddles will be a new Eruo saddle that Good Rigging is importing, A number of the supplyers are carrying it. It is blue with some orange squiggles on it.

It is designed so a bosuns seat and suspenders can be added, has a quick clip similar to Komet, but ANSI compliant. I may get one after I pay for the winch i just droped a few duccies on.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jul 14, 2002)

Tweaked out Komet Butterfly
Twelve foot double end flip line made from 7/16" static line
Rather than webbing loops I carry a 5/8" super tape daisy chain. having the multiple loops to use makes for a really versatile configuration.

Tom


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 10, 2002)

*I've abused my power again*

Merged a number of threads relating to buying a new saddle.

cleaned up a few of the most off topic posts.

So waddaya think? I think more of this should be done with FAQ threads. It's up to yall.


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Buckingham Master II*

I tried this saddle out today when I was at Vermeer picking up more goodies. It felt great until I actually went out and set a rope in a tree and clipped in. Even with different adjustments and different tie-in points, I was amazed at how much my 'package' was pinched in less than 5 minutes. This saddle would make a great torture device for convicted rapists and child molesters.

I STILL do not like Buckingham saddles.


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## Tim Gardner (Oct 10, 2002)

LOL! You have to know how to use the Master II to climb in it. I adjust the "jewels" after I put mine on and have no problem with it. Took me a few climbs to get used to it. I would never go back to one of those basic buttstrap saddles like grampa climbed with way back when.


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## seanlarkin (Oct 11, 2002)

Brian,
Treeman82 (Matt) went through much adjusting with his Master III saddle, and in the end, was very satisfied. You could PM him and ask if he had the same discomfort in the same spots as you, and what he did to fix it. Just a thought.
-Sean


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 11, 2002)

I'm going to look at the Blair Trinity saddle at the TCI on 11/7. Tim Walsh had a lot of imput in its design so I think may work well for me.


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: I've abused my power again*



> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *Merged a number of threads relating to buying a new saddle.
> 
> cleaned up a few of the most off topic posts.
> ...



I find it confusing and unnecessary. Many times, people will simply post an answer to a question. If you keep merging threads with overlapping dates, the flow of the conversation is screwed up. If you MUST mess with consolidating threads, could you please confine it to OLD stuff? 

I've also gone back to find a specific conversation, it would be a bummer if you had deleted it just to 'clean up'. What purpose are you serving by doing this? Darin has never done it.

(This isn't personal, John. Just a difference of opinion on how you are messing with this forum) :angel:


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## Stumper (Oct 14, 2002)

I'll agree with 165 on this-It doesn't really seem to help the user friendliness of the site. Is there some technical matter that makes combining threads beneficial to site administration?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 14, 2002)

What is old? 

I did not merge any thing less then 3 months. well, I'm like 4 days off if you want to split hairs.

The stuff I took out was mostly name calling and off topic exchanges.

The merge fuction keeps everything in chronological order. My intent here is to pull together some of the FAQ type questions. So yes, it is more for future users. And for us when the question comes up again, "I want to buy a saddle, any suggestions." I got the idea when someone answered the question with a bunch of links to lold threads.

If It was such a bad thing I did, why did it take 4 days for the responce?  

Finaly, it was a real pain to do. So if y'all don't like it I wont do it again. I did say it was up to y'all.

As for my judgement calls......I'm still going to make them. Been doing it for a few months before you noticed.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 15, 2002)

My






I think they should be left alone. Preserve continuity.....it sure made me a puzzled person reading through the thread trying to find the answers to some questions and trying to find the questions to some answers.

I would have responded, but they don't have electricity in Bucksnort Park in Minnesota. Good thing, too....I liked the wilderness time.

Nickrosis


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 25, 2002)

If a Pinnachle saddle eliminates thigh pinch, why is it advertised with a spreader snap?

Is a Versatile a bosun's seat style off the shelf?

i've tried a Master (1?) for a day, a rolling D for a few weaks, and same with individual leg support. 

i favour center fixed support, bosun's seat, can't stand thigh pinch, didn't like the way that the Master pulled from my waist, but my buddy that let me borrow it said that is so if you pass out you are upright.

The Butterfly's following sounds interesting, but am leaning more towards these saddles. i presently sport a WeaverWideBack with a spreader.

Thanx


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