# Half or full skip chain?



## slednut3

After speaking with a few of the local loggers, I am thinking of getting either a few half or full skip stihl chains for my 460. I mainly would use them for cutting up felled trees. What are your experiences and/or recommendation?


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## Billy_Bob

The idea behind a half or full skip chain is to keep the speed of the chain moving fast when you have a longer bar.

There is only "so much power" with the chainsaw motor...

And the more teeth you have cutting at the same time, the more of a load on the engine. And with longer bars, you have more teeth cutting at the same time.

If the chain speed slows down, then it will take forever to make your cut.

So basically the idea is to remove some teeth, then there are fewer teeth cutting at the same time, then the chain speed remains FAST. Your cuts are therefore fast even though you are using a long bar!

For example on my 32 inch bar saw and on my 36 inch bar saw, I have full skip chains. But on my 20 inch bar saw and on my 14 inch bar saw, I have regular non-skip chains (full comp).

Another thing to consider is the wood shavings building up between teeth. With a longer bar and cutting a large diameter tree, the tooth starts cutting at one end and keeps cutting all the way through. Thus you have more shavings. And need more "room" between teeth for all those shavings. So another reason to use half or full skip chains.

Then I suppose the type of wood you are cutting would be another factor. And the depth of the "depth gauges" (rakers) you have on your chains.

A softer wood would be easier to cut and the chain speed would remain fast.
A harder wood would slow the chains down.

Higher depth gauges (rakers) would make a more shallow cut and keep the chain speed fast.
Lower depth gauges would make deeper cuts and this would be more of a load on the engine.

So I guess if the chain is slowing down (depending on bar length, type of wood, etc.), you would want to go to a chain with a larger skip.


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## slednut3

Thank you Billy Bob...that was a great explanation. So, in your opinion, a 20 inch bar does not need a skip chain in most circumstances. I was told that if I put a skip chain on my 20" bar, it would buzz through stuff like butter. Are you saying there is a point where the advantage of a skip chain nullifies itself because the size of the log, the type of wood, and the hp of the saw can keep a higher rpm with a nonskip chain on a shorter bar? I hope that made sense.


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## Billy_Bob

I would say if your non-skip chain is keeping up its speed and cutting fast, then there would be no reason to go to a skip chain.

But being as you were going to buy a skip chain, it would be interesting for learning to test the two on a 20 inch bar and see which is faster!

BUT the only fair test would be to buy two brand new chains...

One chain a non-skip, the other chain a full skip. And same type/design cutting teeth on the two chains.

If just buying a new full skip chain, it might be faster than an older non-skip chain because the teeth are all the same exact height, the teeth are sharp, and the depth gauges (rakers) are set as they should be.

Or an older non-skip chain might be faster because the depth gauges were filed down to be lower than factory specification.

So the only fair test would be two brand new chains where the only difference between the two was the skip.

Also I might add to my previous post, that when using longer bars, you can get a saw with more power, BUT the saws with more power have more weight. I have two MS460's which are reasonably light (to me, some people think they are quite heavy), but the next step up in power model is quite a bit heavier.

And the idea is to get the work done and conserve your energy. Lugging around a heavy saw would tend to use up my energy faster, so I like using the lighter saws.


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## 2dogs

Billy_Bob said:


> The idea behind a half or full skip chain is to keep the speed of the chain moving fast when you have a longer bar.
> 
> There is only "so much power" with the chainsaw motor...
> 
> And the more teeth you have cutting at the same time, the more of a load on the engine. And with longer bars, you have more teeth cutting at the same time.
> 
> If the chain speed slows down, then it will take forever to make your cut.
> 
> So basically the idea is to remove some teeth, then there are fewer teeth cutting at the same time, then the chain speed remains FAST. Your cuts are therefore fast even though you are using a long bar!



Sorry but that is not correct. 

The pupose of skip chain is to be able to saw efficiently with a long bar and a BIG powerhead. With softwoods in particular the saw will cut so fast that chips build up betwen the teeth of a full comp chain and the chain will stop cutting. Full skip chain has enough room between the cutters that it can fill up but still allow the chain to cut. Some reaming (seesawing) is still necessary from time to time. Full skip has 2/3 the cutters of full comp so sharpening goes a little faster. I use full skip on all my bars 20" and longer because of that. I even have some skip chains in 18" for cutting redwood, pine, and fir.

Lately I have been running semi-skip on my 28" MS460. I freind of mine who is a pro faller recommended it but the verdict is still out. 

Many people say that full skip dulls faster than full comp when run in hardwoods. I have not found this to be true but maybe east coast hardwoods are different than our west coast hardwoods. I am happy running skip in oak and eucalyptus.


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## Billy_Bob

From the following link...

["The skip-chain is less likely to bog down the saw when cutting larger pieces of wood because there aren't as many cutting links in contact as there would be with a regular chain. Because it has less drag, the motor of the saw runs at a higher RPM. This gives the chain more speed so it cuts faster."]

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/gregersen119.html


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## RandyMac

2dogs has it, skip works for big saws, the chip clearance thing, skip is also good with small high rpm saws that lack the guts for full comp on longer bars.


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## 056 kid

I have noticed at times that a full skip chain looses its edge alittle faster, I prefer it though.


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## ray benson

A little chain advice from Madsen's.
http://www.madsens1.com/bnc sequence.htm


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## M.R.

ray benson said:


> A little chain advice from Madsen's.
> http://www.madsens1.com/bnc sequence.htm



Madsen's is spot on, what they're not saying or covering when limbing --on the full skip is the amount of small limbs/twigs the chain brings to you and into the saw. One thing I've noticed is: It dosen't seem to take nearly as long to get the stretch out of the full skip chain. [shock loading/ or the grabbing effect when in the small stuff]]


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## Noko

Thank you for interesting information.

I have been using full-comp chain on 28" bar on my 460 (stock) for bucking mainly white oak and red oak in diamter averaging around 40". 
This configuration has been working fine for me.

I have not used skip chain, but next time I need a new chain, I may try full-skip and see how it works.

Noko


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## hammerlogging

I cut good size Appalachian hardwood all day every day, I run half skip on 32" bars, lately switched to square filed but may revert back due to how much the damn files cost. Anyhow, the other fallers run full skip without complaint, but half skip is smoother. Can't STAND filing a full comp chain. I run 460s and 660s. Try it.


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## Wishie22

The 460 should not be loosing rpms or having a chip clearing problem with a 20" bar in hardwoods or softwoods. Unless your bogging out or just personal preference, I don't see the need for semi or skip tooth. It would just take longer to get through the wood and get work completed.

I could see if you were working a larger bar in larger wood. I have full chisel chain on a 28" bar that I am running on a 79cc saw. Had that buried in white oak, red oak, and seasoned maple with no problems.


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## hammerlogging

Wishie22 said:


> I could see if you were working a larger bar in larger wood. I have full chisel chain on a 28" bar that I am running on a 79cc saw. Had that buried in white oak, red oak, and seasoned maple with no problems.



With all due respect, disagreed. You will bind up from clogged with chips felling trees 24" stumps and greater, with sharp chain that is.... Also, that 79 cc saw has to be held back to maintain chain speed because (atleast the 460) is lacking the torque to pull as hard as the chain wants to dig when in bigger wood. IMO, holding the saw back to keep chain speed up takes as much energy as carrying a 660, thus saw selection depends on timber type, density, avg. diameter, (and which one is running)


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## 056 kid

hammerlogging said:


> I cut good size Appalachian hardwood all day every day, I run half skip on 32" bars, lately switched to square filed but may revert back due to how much the damn files cost. Anyhow, the other fallers run full skip without complaint, but half skip is smoother. Can't STAND filing a full comp chain. I run 460s and 660s. Try it.



I wanna cut with you for a day or so this winter break..


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## Wishie22

hammerlogging said:


> With all due respect, disagreed. You will bind up from clogged with chips felling trees 24" stumps and greater, with sharp chain that is.... Also, that 79 cc saw has to be held back to maintain chain speed because (atleast the 460) is lacking the torque to pull as hard as the chain wants to dig when in bigger wood. IMO, holding the saw back to keep chain speed up takes as much energy as carrying a 660, thus saw selection depends on timber type, density, avg. diameter, (and which one is running)



Agree with a larger bar he may want to use semi or full skip. As an example I stated that I have tested out my saw with a 28" bar full chisel chain with no real problems (on felled wood), will utilize skip tooth on this 28" bar as well for other purposes (for felling).

The OP is running a 20" bar on a 460 (76.5cc), which should not have a problem running full chisel. That is maybe 18" of cutters in wood after dogs to tip. He is also cutting up felled trees.

Since the OP is not felling (sounds like he is bucking or blocking) what would be the advantage of running semi or full skip on a short bar (I am basing the question on cutting time through a days production work) vs using full chisel?

I am open minded and willing to learn.


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## Cedarkerf

Im a semi skip fan ran full skip for years. Did side by side comparison on some fairly big 34" + Doug fir brand new full comp brand new semi skip brand new full skip. Green growing Douglas fir fell it and bucked it,. My observations were full comp cut fast but required lotta reaming to keep speed up,semi skip seamed to cut just as fast and didnt require reaming the cut to keep speed up. Full skip cut as fast as full comp because it cleared chips a lot better. That was couple years ago and run semi on the 066 and ported 372xpw 32" plus bars. On our PNW soft woods with a fast cutting sharp chained saw chip clearance is an actual issue.


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## oregoncutter

M.R. said:


> Madsen's is spot on, what they're not saying or covering when limbing --on the full skip is the amount of small limbs/twigs the chain brings to you and into the saw. One thing I've noticed is: It dosen't seem to take nearly as long to get the stretch out of the full skip chain. [shock loading/ or the grabbing effect when in the small stuff]]



I don't claim to be an expert but have spent a fair amount of time bucking and limbing logs (chasing) on a landing, Use the back of You're bar when You're limbing (bumping knots) whenever possible, that eliminates alot of the grabbing, and pulling chip, twigs, and stuff in general to You, and the saw, and instead sends it away from you. I run full skip tooth, on all my saws just my preference, allways worked for me so why fix it if it's not broke..


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## 380LGR

I run my 046 with a 8 tooth drive instad of the stock 7 with a 20" bar no skippy crap dulls to fast.


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## woodfarmer

full skip on the 066 with 25" bar


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## Meadow Beaver

Like most guys said it takes more power to pull full comp on a long bar, and it takes more power to pull chips with full comp on long bar.


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## GASoline71

What is "half" skip?

Gary


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## slowp

GASoline71 said:


> What is "half" skip?
> 
> Gary



It is equal to two quarter skips. But no hops.


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## Meadow Beaver

It's a hybrid between full house and full comp chain.


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## Johnnybar

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj7_6vkpPfRAhXs5IMKHZyvCU0QjRwIBw&url=https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm06672804/page03.htm&psig=AFQjCNF-OIBVFs6LRYTcRimWFP6NO6B3kw&ust=1486326753930878 How's this for adding to an ancient thread?


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## SeMoTony

Johnnybar said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj7_6vkpPfRAhXs5IMKHZyvCU0QjRwIBw&url=https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm06672804/page03.htm&psig=AFQjCNF-OIBVFs6LRYTcRimWFP6NO6B3kw&ust=1486326753930878 How's this for adding to an ancient thread?


Not too bad! I was taken to task for bringing back 11 year old thread that popped up inna search


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## Westboastfaller

My experience is um..it's called 'SKIP'


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## Westboastfaller

GASoline71 said:


> What is "half" skip?
> 
> Gary


 and WHAT IN THE PHUCK IS FULL SKIP


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## Johnnybar

Westboastfaller said:


> and WHAT IN THE PHUCK IS FULL SKIP


Read the link on #26


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## Westboastfaller

GASoline71 said:


> What is "half" skip?
> 
> Gary





Westboastfaller said:


> and WHAT IN THE PHUCK IS FULL SKIP


Nothing I need to read here.
This terminology is not reconized other that buy some **** in sales that is confusing the situation. It's always been full house( full comp) hence 'FULL' being used already.... skip then semi skip. What is this full skip BS.
That's not going to fly as long as I have a breath in me.

That fad is going away quick.


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## Johnnybar

Westboastfaller said:


> Nothing I need to read here.
> This terminology is not reconized other that buy some **** in sales that is confusing the situation. It's always been full house( full comp) hence 'FULL' being used already.... skip then semi skip. What is this full skip BS.
> That's not going to fly a long as I have a breath in me.
> 
> That fade is going away quick


Hope that dog new to run when you got home! lol


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## Westboastfaller

Johnnybar said:


> Hope that dog new to run when you got home! lol


LMAO...haha

Laughter is the best medicine!
I am good with everything and anything.
That one is my only pet peeve saying.
It's Soooo wrong.
I don't care if people call a bar a blade or a sprocket a pin or an undercut a face cut
and so on.....
I'm passionate about that one for some reason. Lol that's how my friend @Woos31 and I met over this 'difference' Great dude!

Peace friend


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## northmanlogging

full skip does imply no teeth, like ye its a chains saw chain but we completely skipped the whole puttin teeth on it bit, a glorified bicycle chain if you will.


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## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> LMAO...haha
> 
> Laughter is the best medicine!
> I am good with everything and anything.
> That one is my only pet peeve saying.
> It's Soooo wrong.
> I don't care if people call a bar a blade or a sprocket a pin or an undercut a face cut
> and so on.....
> I'm passionate about that one for some reason. Lol that's how my friend @Woos31 met over this 'difference' Great dude!
> 
> Peace friend


I had a good chuckle when I saw the thread myself Jamie lol. Reminded me of that conversation as well haha. Hope winter is seeing you well pard


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## Westboastfaller

Woos31 said:


> I had a good chuckle when I saw the thread myself Jamie lol. Reminded me of that conversation as well haha. Hope winter is seeing you well pard


haha..I have tears running down my check lol.. 'I don't know what it is'..it makes me crazy.

Anyway good thing everyone has been cooler that me and good laughs and friends were had.

Yes pretty quiet winter for me. I don't think I will be chasing the pot of gold in the north interior BC and Alberta for a few year anyway. I'll let it cycle back strong instead of cashing scraps.

What's being going on with you and the family Brad? All good?


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## Westboastfaller

Woos31 said:


> I had a good chuckle when I saw the thread myself Jamie lol. Reminded me of that conversation as well haha.


I can't really remember much when I read this here thread...I do remember feeling very dizzy and things going dark.
Then next thing I remember was waking up in hospital with my Mother looking over me holding my hand. I'm just confused.


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## Johnnybar

Westboastfaller said:


> I can't really remember much when I read this here thread...I do remember feeling very dizzy and things going dark.
> Then next thing I remember was waking up in hospital with my Mother looking over me holding my hand. I'm just confused.


I'm getting half tired...here in a smidge I'll be full tired and needin' some sawin' logs in me full bed...or was it a double full I bought last half moon? Can't remember...maybe it was a double full XL and it came by delivery half past noon on the day of the full moon???? Crap I'm really full tired now.....................


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## Westboastfaller

Johnnybar said:


> I'm getting half tired...here in a smidge I'll be full tired and needin' some sawin' logs in me full bed...or was it a double full I bought last half moon? Can't remember...maybe it was a double full XL and it came by delivery half past noon on the day of the full moon???? Crap I'm really full tired now.....................


 Haha
This year? I can't remember if this was a ' 'skip' year or full skip this past Feb. ...Wait a minute they mean the same. No that's right, 2016 was full house? Well if its full house then why do they call it a leap year
and not an add a day year or overtime year and the other ones short timers or 6 short a a stack? We just don't have enough names. This is abvious to me.
This definitely has to change too.


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## sawfun

One of the local PNW saw shops around here that serves mostly loggers, calls skip chain (full) "high speed chain". Most 24 inch or longer is this "high speed chain" when they make it up.


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## Westboastfaller

If I said 'skip' would there be any confusion as to what I'm asking for?
Since skip came before semi skip; if someone doesn't specify semi skip then they are getting skip.

Obviously this came about in areas where semi skip came very popular and someone called it half skip...fair enough.
I bet most al BC coast fallers have heard of semi-skip chain but like me have never seen it in person. An additional 2,500 interior Certified fallers of BC and Alberta don't even know it exists. Ok maybe 50-100 have heard of it. and the same 50-100 out of 2500 have heard of square chisel chain. Another fun fact. Most saw shop employees in BC have never heard of square chisel chain. Not even north coast anymore. You can't buy a K &H wedge north of the middle of the province.

I'm sure most saw shops in USA don't stock semi-skip either??? Unless they have a request for it.

Soooo if you fall under this category as I do then clean the shelf of linguistic blend words such as semi-skip/half-skip/full-skip.

That just leaves us with full comp or skip.

How about that!
And the ones remaining need to remind us others that it doesn't apply to us

Where is George Carlin when you need him.
Now that was an 'American' that made sense. He wouldn't have any of it!


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## Westboastfaller

George Carlin "The Ten Commandments"

https://www.google.ca/search?q=geor...droid-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8


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## Johnnybar

Westboastfaller said:


> If I said 'skip' would there be any confusion as to what I'm asking for?
> Since skip came before semi skip; if someone doesn't specify semi skip then they are getting skip.
> 
> Obviously this came about in areas where semi skip came very popular and someone called it half skip...fair enough.
> I bet most al BC coast fallers have heard of semi-skip chain but like me have never seen it in person. An additional 2,500 interior Certified fallers of BC and Alberta don't even know it exists. Ok maybe 50-100 have heard of it. and the same 50-100 out of 2500 have heard of square chisel chain. Another fun fact. Most saw shop employees in BC have never heard of square chisel chain. Not even north coast anymore. You can't buy a K &H wedge north of the middle of the province.
> 
> I'm sure most saw shops in USA don't stock semi-skip either??? Unless they have a request for it.
> 
> Soooo if you fall under this category as I do then clean the shelf of linguistic blend words such as semi-skip/half-skip/full-skip.
> 
> That just leaves us with full comp or skip.
> 
> How about that!
> And the ones remaining need to remind us others that it doesn't apply to us
> 
> Where is George Carlin when you need him.
> Now that was an 'American' that made sense. He wouldn't have any of it!


Yep, he made his cents with his sense!


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## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> haha..I have tears running down my check lol.. 'I don't know what it is'..it makes me crazy.
> 
> Anyway good thing everyone has been cooler that me and good laughs and friends were had.
> 
> Yes pretty quiet winter for me. I don't think I will be chasing the pot of gold in the north interior BC and Alberta for a few year anyway. I'll let it cycle back strong instead of cashing scraps.
> 
> What's being going on with you and the family Brad? All good?


Yessir all good for the most, my wife just broke her left ankle from a slip on the ice the day of my oldest son's birthday lol. This time was worse than the last and 6 months exactly the day from the other, but aside from that I ain't pushin up weeds from the dirt so I'm still winning the fight. Did some buckin and equipment operating for a friend on weekends through fall till snow hit which helped my sanity from the everyday job. 40 acres of juniper shoved into piles with a D8 and root wads, limbs, and bole wood had to separated for a grinder so it was a mess but it was some saw work. The guy I was working with was a faller for Weyerhaeuser here in Oregon back in the 80s so I enjoyed many good experiences he shared of those days


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## fool skip

I like to keep both semi and full skip chains handy. My preference depends on the run of timber I'm in. Semi will take the limbs better if you are in limby piss fir. With slick timber I prefer full skip. With full skip you have to pay closer attention to your rakers. Full comp chain is only used in frozen timber where it seems to hold an edge better. IMO


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## RenaisSAWnceMan

Have had bars up to 60" (for the 090AV), but most cutting with longer bars included a 32" on the 394XP, and with the 36" on the 090AV, with full-comp chain. - The 394 has never hesitated to carry the full-comp through any kind of wood with the 32" bar....even when doin' stuff that is larger than that in diameter, i.e a full bite. I read all the above perspectives and opinions....but, again, my experience has never given me any cause to even consider a skip chain.... AND, with the 20" bar....? It just laughs at oak, maple and ash. Hard to imagine a stronger cut with a skip, but....whaddo I know. Perhaps, losin' teeth in my mouth, makes me want to have all I can on the chains...!!

Leeha might remember that saw, from a GTG several years back.... He asked: IS it stock?


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