# A Pretty Helicopter But Too Stormy Today



## slowp (May 3, 2010)

Heard a rumor that some helicopter logging near our community hub was going to happen. It turns out to be true. There will be three days worth of logging when they can fly. Today we're having a storm with wind. I was able to stop and take pictures during a sucker hole. 












I didn't see anybody around to pester with questions. The knob they'll work on is pretty much vertical, with no road to the top. I'm glad I don't have to be on it. 

The company is on the helicopter and they are from La Grande, OR. It is a K-max and that is all I know. I'll try to get some pictures of it in action.


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## Gologit (May 3, 2010)

slowp said:


> Heard a rumor that some helicopter logging near our community hub was going to happen. It turns out to be true. There will be three days worth of logging when they can fly. Today we're having a storm with wind. I was able to stop and take pictures during a sucker hole.



Private ground?


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## Torin (May 3, 2010)

I think it is a Kaman (sp?) The intermeshing rotors are cool.


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## slowp (May 3, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Private ground?



Yes. Above an old farm. I think they are using some pasture for a landing.



Torin said:


> I think it is a Kaman (sp?) The intermeshing rotors are cool.



Definitely a K-Max. It only has room for a pilot. Those blades on it are strange. The Service landing is in the suburbs of our "town" at a rock business next to a hardware store. Guess they can get duct tape and hammers easily. 

If they take the hemlock to our local mill, that's a 5 minute truck haul. The fir would be a half hour away from the nearest mill.


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## Greystoke (May 3, 2010)

*K-Max Helicopter*

That is a K-Max, owned by Tom Woody. That guy is a go getter...started out cat logging. I worked for Sharp Log Cutting for a while, who contracted for Woody. That is a neat copter...very quiet, and very productive, especially when flyin for that outfit! Wish I had a pic of the mangled four wheeler that they flew out on a job that we were cuttin for Woody outside of Kamiah Idaho...long story, but Tom was out checkin on things riding one of his almost new four wheelers, headin up a steep bald south slope when the hill just got a little too steep, and flipped over backwards! He said he just had to step off and let er go...he said the last he saw of it it was rounding over the hill at the bottom and was bounding in the air about 50 feet per bounce...ended up piling up at the bottom of the draw in a mangled heap of plastic, rubber and steel, at least that is what I saw of it when they flew it out! Good thing it was the boss that did it! That job was chocked full of Rattle snakes and poison ivy


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## Rounder (May 3, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> That is a K-Max, owned by Tom Woody. That guy is a go getter...started out cat logging. I worked for Sharp Log Cutting for a while, who contracted for Woody. That is a neat copter...very quiet, and very productive, especially when flyin for that outfit! Wish I had a pic of the mangled four wheeler that they flew out on a job that we were cuttin for Woody outside of Kamiah Idaho...long story, but Tom was out checkin on things riding one of his almost new four wheelers, headin up a steep bald south slope when the hill just got a little too steep, and flipped over backwards! He said he just had to step off and let er go...he said the last he saw of it it was rounding over the hill at the bottom and was bounding in the air about 50 feet per bounce...ended up piling up at the bottom of the draw in a mangled heap of plastic, rubber and steel, at least that is what I saw of it when they flew it out! Good thing it was the boss that did it! That job was chocked full of Rattle snakes and poison ivy



Is Tom's company Swanson Aviation? I seem to remember S.A. had a K-max out of that area. Anyways, I thought you liked rattlesnakes and poison ivy, or maybe it was poison oak, haha - Sam


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## Greystoke (May 4, 2010)

mtsamloggit said:


> Is Tom's company Swanson Aviation? I seem to remember S.A. had a K-max out of that area. Anyways, I thought you liked rattlesnakes and poison ivy, or maybe it was poison oak, haha - Sam



I don't know about Swanson Aviation? I do know that when I worked for Sharp Log Cutting in 98 and 99 Tom Woody was owner of Woody contracting, and I assume he still is. Poisonous anything and I don't mix too well...lately it is shrimp and I that don't mix too well! Maybe see ya tomorrow!


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## RPM (May 4, 2010)

slowp said:


> If they take the hemlock to our local mill, that's a 5 minute truck haul. The fir would be a half hour away from the nearest mill.



You're able to fly Hemlock and make $$...


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## slowp (May 4, 2010)

RPM said:


> You're able to fly Hemlock and make $$...



I fly nothing. 

Stormy and foggy today too.


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## bigbadbob (May 4, 2010)

We have a few of them around here, sure are skinny things, different!!!


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## 056 kid (May 4, 2010)

slowp said:


> Heard a rumor that some helicopter logging near our community hub was going to happen. It turns out to be true. There will be three days worth of logging when they can fly. Today we're having a storm with wind. I was able to stop and take pictures during a sucker hole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




you dont say? I aught to look into that..


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## RPM (May 4, 2010)

slowp said:


> I fly nothing.
> 
> Stormy and foggy today too.



Sorry .. _They_ are able to fly hemlock and make $$?


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## RPM (May 4, 2010)

bigbadbob said:


> We have a few of them around here, sure are skinny things, different!!!



Yah ... mostly rotten. the younger thrifty stuff makes lumber...good recovery with often little to no defect if it is 80-100ys old. But its Hemlock and there is no market for dimensional hemlock lumber here. In my area hemlock is worth about 1/2 of what it would cost to fly it to the landing before stumpage and other costs are added in.

Cedar is a different story....


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## slowp (May 4, 2010)

The closest mill, now takes only hemlock and other white woods. Their other mill same company, different location takes the Doug. Both mills have kept going except the other one was shut down for a while after it's roof caved in from too much snow over a year ago. 

Apparently they have found a market for hemlock.

I imagine that the stand the helicopter is working in is mixed hemlock and Doug fir.


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## Dalmatian90 (May 5, 2010)

> I think it is a Kaman



Kaman makes the K-max  It's a great copter, just never as wildly successful as they would've liked...they were hoping it would pickup a lot of the slack as their military contracts declined. I know they've made a UAV version of it they've demonstrated to the military for hauling cargo.

My mom went to high school with a fellow who became President. They had one of their factories in a neighboring town, but they've since re-trenched back to the Bloomfield HQ.

Charlie Kaman was a character. 

One of the stories I watched him tell on TV is they were testing the first turbocharged helicopter, and he was the test pilot.

Test was going great. They got up to the maximum elevation they wanted to test, and it was time to come down.

There was just one slight problem. Between Charlie and the rest of the engineering staff, they had all overlooked that a turbocharged engine becomes more efficient the thinner the air is when putting everything together.

He kept throttling down.

Helicopter kept going up.

Finally had it at the "idle" setting on the throttle, and was still gaining elevation.

He had to turn off the motor and auto-rotate back to ground, which is where the helicopter blades basically act like a glider.


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## RPM (May 5, 2010)

slowp said:


> I imagine that the stand the helicopter is working in is mixed hemlock and Doug fir.



We have to have the right profile as well with that being cedar leading with a good doug-fir - peeler component. The cedar offsets the cost and the fir peelers are bonus. Anything with a heavy sawlog component is not being entertained at the moment. Short term gain ... long term pain (with respect to the overall timber profile) - but thats survival mode at the moment. 

Glad to see someone make a go of it!


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## slowp (May 5, 2010)

Tomorrow morning at 7AM they fly. I called to find out. They had some maintenance work to do on it.


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## bigbadbob (May 5, 2010)

slowp said:


> Tomorrow morning at 7AM they fly. I called to find out. They had some maintenance work to do on it.


Allways cool to watch choppers work, set a few poles with them in nasty places.


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## hammerlogging (May 5, 2010)

bigbadbob said:


> We have a few of them around here, sure are skinny things, different!!!





RPM said:


> Yah ... mostly rotten. the younger thrifty stuff makes lumber...good recovery with often little to no defect if it is 80-100ys old. But its Hemlock and there is no market for dimensional hemlock lumber here. In my area hemlock is worth about 1/2 of what it would cost to fly it to the landing before stumpage and other costs are added in.
> 
> Cedar is a different story....



I think he was talking about the helicopter. Foresters. geez. 

just kidding

We'll fly under value wood for a net loss, but only enough to let us do some semblance of forestry during an otherwise high grade only economic model due to flight costs. But I think we could do a lot better job of utilization with a KMax than the model we had here, lower cost/ton


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## bigbadbob (May 5, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> I think he was talking about the helicopter. Foresters. geez.


Sure was, when those ones are coming straight towards you it's all you can do to see them.


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## RPM (May 6, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> I think he was talking about the helicopter. Foresters. geez.
> 
> just kidding
> 
> We'll fly under value wood for a net loss, but only enough to let us do some semblance of forestry during an otherwise high grade only economic model due to flight costs. But I think we could do a lot better job of utilization with a KMax than the model we had here, lower cost/ton




Yup ... probably was now that I read it again....foresters . The nature of the business today is killing any fun left in this job .... I'd much rather be running saw or pulling rigging.

Thats the other downer now is that we don't practice any semblance of good forest management - high grade all the way (till next year ... maybe).

Is it Friday yet?


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## slowp (May 6, 2010)

Here's some bad video. Sorry for the wiggling but my arm got tired. The helicopter worked from 7 to 3 at least. They have a miniscule yarding distance. You'll be hearing the traffic from the highway that I was parked off of. 

If you want it to be like Axmen, you'll have to add the LOOK OUT, BLEEP, and all the other sounds. All I could hear was highway and helicopter. 

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oYytJzvRMss&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oYytJzvRMss&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I have some still photos that are in focus but need some tweaking. Zooming is hard.


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## Greystoke (May 6, 2010)

Cool vid. Amazing how quiet those things are.


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## slowp (May 6, 2010)

Some still photos. I find it hard to believe that those rotor work so well in sync. It would scare me to think too hard about it.
















This one shows some of the terrain. There's always a way through, up or down our rock bluffs. This one is like we used to do firehose belays down.


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## forestryworks (May 6, 2010)

that is one quiet bird


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## Buckethead (May 9, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Kaman makes the K-max  It's a great copter, just never as wildly successful as they would've liked...they were hoping it would pickup a lot of the slack as their military contracts declined. I know they've made a UAV version of it they've demonstrated to the military for hauling cargo.
> 
> My mom went to high school with a fellow who became President. They had one of their factories in a neighboring town, but they've since re-trenched back to the Bloomfield HQ.
> 
> ...



The rotor/gearbox design dates back to the 50's when Kaman was building HH-43 Huskies for the Air Force. My father worked for Kaman in the 60's as a mechanic on the HH-43 and SH-2 Seasprite. The K-Max was advertised as an "aerial pickup truck." During the development of the K-Max they purchased an old HH-43 from somewhere in south america for some reverse engineering. The goal for the K-max was minimum weight and maximum lift with an eye on the logging, aerial lift, and firefighting markets.

In the early 80's I worked for Air Kaman (their FBO operation) in Windsor Locks, Ct. and met Charlie Kaman a couple times. To call him a character is quite accurate. He always had a pair of german shepards with him that did everthing he did without a word. He was heavily involved in the Fidelco seeing-eye dogs. As of a couple years ago he was still alive but in a nursing home. I was bummed that the K-Max didn't become more popular. I thought it was a great concept and filled a perfect niche in the market.


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## joesawer (May 9, 2010)

I have worked on with a K Max several times and they seem like great logging choppers if you don't need a whole lot of lift.
They are rated at 5000 lbs but with a low fuel load 7000 can be bumped along but watching those rotors flex is a little unnerving.
I have bucked a lot of short logs and ripped more than a few to get them to fly.
I was hired on one job to run around and buck or rip every thing that would not fly. That was a very tough job.
I talked with some of the FS fire fighters in charge of the contract choppers and they where not to fond of the K Max because it was not very competitive $ per gallon as the heavier lift choppers so it was not there first choice.


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