# Kodiak/TopKick Trucks



## TheViking (Apr 15, 2015)

What's the general census on the Kodiak/TopKick?

How well are the diesel engines built? I know the latter models came with a DuraMax and some with Cat engines if I recall correctly.

Also transmission options the automatic seemed to be popular but what about manual transmissions?

Also how well do these things haul and pull a load. 

I got these trucks on my mind today and would like some information on them please.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Apr 15, 2015)

Hard to get chassis/body parts anymore.


----------



## TheViking (Apr 15, 2015)

Thanks Steve.


----------



## Knobby57 (Apr 15, 2015)

There are a lot out there . I have no trouble getting parts . Lots of used body parts available . Never had trouble getting chassis parts either . The cat motors are pretty good. Parts easily available from cat. In a 6500 truck you won't be flying but you can pull and stop a pretty good load . These make a great rollback truck . The automatics are slow as a snail compared to the eaton standard trans 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## TheViking (Apr 15, 2015)

What about the DuraMax and Allison combo do you have any experience with those?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 15, 2015)

I have 2 of them ,one a wrecker ,one a rollback cat with 6 speeds ,the blocks are not sleevable or boreble i found out ,they are like driving a pickup truck inside ,power windows ,tilt etc


----------



## TheViking (Apr 15, 2015)

That's the Cat diesel engine and the non turbo correct?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 15, 2015)

TheViking said:


> That's the Cat diesel engine and the non turbo correct?


Mine both have a turbo ,200 hp i think ,maybe 220 ,the marine ones have 100 more hp i think ,or if can get a military one ,they are more hp


----------



## Steve NW WI (Apr 15, 2015)

Brian, 3208s? Good motors, but throwaway like you said. Seen some with a 3176. My opinion of those is on par with a non running MiniMac.

Never run one with theDmax. Should be good up to about CDL weights tho.

A 6 or 7 speed manual will walk on the Allison performance wise, esp the older 4 speeds. If caveman operators tho, I'd take the Ally any day.


----------



## Mowingman (Apr 15, 2015)

I have had 4 of them, all 96 and 95 models with the 3116 Cat engines. all have had 8LL transmissions. We still have 2 in our little "fleet". One is a 7500 flatbed dump. The other is an 8500 tandem axle dump. I like the little Cat engine, but they need good maint on a regular basis. They are kind of a light duty diesel and can not stand much abuse. They also are not generally rebuildable, but are throwaway engines.
I would stay away from the suto transmissions. They are real slugs on the highway. The trans. is a good one, but, if it fails, just haul the whole truck to the junkyard. The auto. trans. is VERY expensive to replace, usually more cost in the trans. rebuild, than the whole truck is worth.
Parts are easy to get, either new or used. The Kodiak series used a pickup truck cab, setting on a heavy duty chassis, with a special hood. Used hoods in good shape can be hard to find, as the fiberglass gets weak with age. All chassis parts are available through any good heavy duty truck parts shop. Cab parts are all from 2500/3500 GM trucks, so they are easy to get.
Again, this is all related to the older, mid 90's Kodiaks. I do not have any info on the newer ones with the Duramax engines.
Jeff


----------



## TheViking (Apr 15, 2015)

Thanks for the info everyone and keep it coming.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 15, 2015)

Your question is kind of hard to answer because the Kodiak/Topkick line is a fairly long running line of trucks with tons of options available.

As with most medium or heavy duty trucks, when you buy new, you go into the dealer and they pretty much build to suit. It could come with several different options of gas or diesel engines, transmissions, axles, gearing, frame length, tire size, etc.
If you get something a bit oddball you may have trouble finding some parts. Either will have to figure out what else used the part you need or sub for something else that will work.

You can get into one that is not a whole lot heavier duty than a 1 ton truck or another that would be close to class 8 truck specs. I have seen medium duty trucks have anything from a straight 6 gas engine to a 10+ liter diesel engine

If you find a truck you think will work out, you need to look at what it has for drivetrain.

The Chevy I used to have did pretty good, though the steeper hills when loaded where 15-20mph at times. (I was hauling 6 cords of firewood) It had a 427 tall deck, 5x4 trans, 7.17 gears in the twin screw rears. I mostly sold it because of the 5mpg and the hydraulic brakes. I upgraded to a similar size truck but with an 855 cu in diesel, engine brake and air brakes.


----------



## TheViking (Apr 15, 2015)

I'm looking for a late model Kodiak with the Allison and DuraMax. I personally like this body style the best of them all but if I recall right it was killed off around 2007. Also from a maintenance standpoint the DuraMax and Allison combo would be easily maintained from my stand point and also turned up for a bit better performance.


----------



## greg storms (Apr 15, 2015)

I've read plenty on the Allison automatics
They say the 5th or 6th gears can be programmed in them if you have the hp. I love the Allison autos. Like some1 said, treat it well. I have a 2006 Chevy 5500 with duramax diesel and six speed manual. It's much better than my ford 550 (2001) with the 7.3 power stroke. I just wish I had the allison auto. Good Luck./!!


----------



## fordf150 (Apr 15, 2015)

Good trucks and easy to get most parts. Friend ran them in his towing business for years. Hydraulic brakes and low powered engines are the biggest draw backs. He swapped 5.9 Cummins into his. No clue on the newer dmax/allison combo though. Did anybody mention how expensive the hydraulic brakes are and how much maintenance they require to keep them in shape.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 15, 2015)

The hydraulic brakes aren't too bad if it's a normal hydroboost setup similar to what a 1 ton truck would have. The older hydrovac and electric pump setups are not so fun to deal with and depending on age, the parts might be hard to find.

International makes a great line of MDT trucks as well. Often can be bought for a fair price from auctions, old town/county/fire dept. trucks, etc.

As for what is a good engine and not, it really is going to depend on what you plan on using and hauling with the truck. The Duramax is a good light duty motor, and IMO "meh" in a medium duty. I say this just compared to other options like the 5.9L or 8.3L Cummins, DT466, 7.8L Ford, not to mention several "heavy duty" gas engines.

I don't mean that it's not a bad engine, but it's not well suited for hauling heavy all the time and lasting for darn near forever like most other MDT engines are. Again, this will all depend on your needs.
If you are just in need of something a bit heavier duty than a 1 ton, like what Ford would call an F450 or 550 it would be just fine.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 16, 2015)

Steve NW WI said:


> Brian, 3208s? Good motors, but throwaway like you said. Seen some with a 3176. My opinion of those is on par with a non running MiniMac.
> 
> Never run one with theDmax. Should be good up to about CDL weights tho.
> 
> A 6 or 7 speed manual will walk on the Allison performance wise, esp the older 4 speeds. If caveman operators tho, I'd take the Ally any day.


Mine have the in-line 6,3116 I think,I lost an injector last year,bent 2 valves and ruined a piston, lot of transfer,I was able touch stone hones and clean up the cylinder in frame and put a piston in the 1 hole and bought 2 valves and guides from cat and rebuild the head, so the engines can be fixed,that bandaid fix has been going for over a year now,clutches and brakes I buy at Napa easy to get parts


----------



## Steve NW WI (Apr 16, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Mine have the in-line 6,3116 I think,I lost an injector last year,bent 2 valves and ruined a piston, lot of transfer,I was able touch stone hones and clean up the cylinder in frame and put a piston in the 1 hole and bought 2 valves and guides from cat and rebuild the head, so the engines can be fixed,that bandaid fix has been going for over a year now,clutches and brakes I buy at Napa easy to get parts


Miss typed in the earlier post, meant 3116 not 3176. Sounds like you got a good one. The one at my last job was in the shop more than on the road. Injectors, turbos, head gaskets, (all plural) in less than 200,000 miles in a 19k gvw truck.

VF, your opinion of the Dmax is awful low, and of course I think youre full of it as usual. It'll out pull and outlast any 366/427 gasser.


----------



## TheViking (Apr 16, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your input and yes I'm looking for something bigger than a one ton for a business idea of mine.

I think air brakes would be a much better set up than the hydraulic just my opinion though.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 16, 2015)

TheViking said:


> Thanks everyone for your input and yes I'm looking for something bigger than a one ton for a business idea of mine.
> 
> I think air brakes would be a much better set up than the hydraulic just my opinion though.


My gvw weight is 25595 so do not need a cdl licence to run it here ,26001 and up you do though ,have hydro brakes on my trucks also,i am not sure if air brakes would need the cdl or not ,My trucks also have 22.5 wheels ,i think some have 19.5


----------



## TheViking (Apr 16, 2015)

Well I have a CDL so now I need the truck....



Somehow I find the truck the most expensive part....


----------



## fordf150 (Apr 16, 2015)

air brakes mandate a CDL no matter what the GVW is. 22.5 rubber is a better setup. from my experience 19.5 tires dont last as many miles as the 22.5 and they cost the same but some applications benefit from the lower ride height of the smaller tires. Last i looked there also wasnt as big of a selection to choose from in 19.5 tires especially if you wanted a rough tread of any kind.


----------



## Knobby57 (Apr 16, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> My gvw weight is 25595 so do not need a cdl licence to run it here ,26001 and up you do though ,have hydro brakes on my trucks also,i am not sure if air brakes would need the cdl or not ,My trucks also have 22.5 wheels ,i think some have 19.5


 26001 and up or over 10k on a trailer you are into commercial license . 2 calipers and 2 rotors parts only on a 2000 6500 was about 900$ carry a caliper pin in your glove box .. I've needed one of those about 3 times in the last year driving over crappy roads . 
I did drive a newer Alison / duramax and it was sweet . Better power than the cat motor . Super quiet and lots of emissions . The Alison trans is great in them unless you crank up the motor and or drive it like a race car . If you have a heavy right foot you won't be happy with a auto trans in a medium duty truck . 
From what I've seen in the 90s and early 2000 trucks the cat motors are the best if maintained . The internationals all I saw where nightmares 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## Knobby57 (Apr 16, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> air brakes mandate a CDL no matter what the GVW is. 22.5 rubber is a better setup. from my experience 19.5 tires dont last as many miles as the 22.5 and they cost the same but some applications benefit from the lower ride height of the smaller tires. Last i looked there also wasnt as big of a selection to choose from in 19.5 tires especially if you wanted a rough tread of any kind.


 19.5 tires do suck compared to the 22.5 he is correct on the selection . 22.5 will give you a taller truck . If I wasn't worried about hight I would take the 22.5 in a heartbeat 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## TheViking (Apr 16, 2015)

I have experience with the International MDT line as I drove one for work yes the auto is slow in a medium duty truck but I'm not trying to speed shift or race anywhere just get to and from in a decent manner and safe manner.

Thanks guys and the truck would be used in a mixed bag of environments from urban to rural and with that being said I would want the more aggressive or most aggressive tire tread I could find and four wheel drive.

I'm sure the aggressive tread would suck on the highway or roads but not getting stuck on farmlands or down logging roads with a trailer in tow would be more than worth it to me.

Thanks again for the input and please keep it coming all this is really helping me, now I think I need to set up a internet-based funding account.....


----------



## greg storms (Apr 16, 2015)

Check out the thread on this forum dated 4-6-15, called cat 3126???? it has some info on the Allison auto trans. When I got my bucket truck (3126 cat w/Allison auto trans), I looked at lots of posts from motor home owners. There's plenty info about them and how well they perform, just do a search. When I was looking at trucks in 17500-19500# range, my mechanic said the duramax 6.6 diesel was good, but stay away from 2007. I bought a 2006, 19500# rated GVW with 6 speed standard shift. The ca is 84", I wish it was 120" to be able to put the small loader between cab and chip box...You're doing the right thing in researching before buying.! edit: consider a heavy duty 30000# bumper mounted winch to run off the PTO. I have one on my 36000# GVW bucket truck and it's gotten me out of stuck situations many times.


----------



## fordf150 (Apr 16, 2015)

Mixed driving... with more city/rural than highway miles and there won't be much difference in tire wear between the mud and highway style tires.

Depending on what your grossing And the wheel base of the truck recaps might make sense too


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 17, 2015)

I would buy tire chains well before thinking of 4x4 in a MDT. They aren't very common and parts are expensive.


----------



## TheViking (Apr 17, 2015)

greg storms said:


> Check out the thread on this forum dated 4-6-15, called cat 3126???? it has some info on the Allison auto trans. When I got my bucket truck (3126 cat w/Allison auto trans), I looked at lots of posts from motor home owners. There's plenty info about them and how well they perform, just do a search. When I was looking at trucks in 17500-19500# range, my mechanic said the duramax 6.6 diesel was good, but stay away from 2007. I bought a 2006, 19500# rated GVW with 6 speed standard shift. The ca is 84", I wish it was 120" to be able to put the small loader between cab and chip box...You're doing the right thing in researching before buying.! edit: consider a heavy duty 30000# bumper mounted winch to run off the PTO. I have one on my 36000# GVW bucket truck and it's gotten me out of stuck situations many times.


Alright I will check when I have a moment today. Thanks!


fordf150 said:


> Mixed driving... with more city/rural than highway miles and there won't be much difference in tire wear between the mud and highway style tires.
> 
> Depending on what your grossing And the wheel base of the truck recaps might make sense too


I have noticed rail road trucks with some aggressive tread patterns so knowing that rail road vehicles cover a large type driving environments I figured they wouldn't be to terrible on the road.


ValleyFirewood said:


> I would buy tire chains well before thinking of 4x4 in a MDT. They aren't very common and parts are expensive.


I had to put tire chains on a fire truck I said never again if I can order or find it in four wheel drive I'm getting it in four wheel drive.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Apr 17, 2015)

Check with Monroe Truck. They sold a ton of em, even did pickup conversions for city cowboys. Think they have a place down in Louisville now, their home office is Madison WI


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 17, 2015)

Knobby57 said:


> 26001 and up or over 10k on a trailer you are into commercial license . 2 calipers and 2 rotors parts only on a 2000 6500 was about 900$ carry a caliper pin in your glove box .. I've needed one of those about 3 times in the last year driving over crappy roads .
> I did drive a newer Alison / duramax and it was sweet . Better power than the cat motor . Super quiet and lots of emissions . The Alison trans is great in them unless you crank up the motor and or drive it like a race car . If you have a heavy right foot you won't be happy with a auto trans in a medium duty truck .
> From what I've seen in the 90s and early 2000 trucks the cat motors are the best if maintained . The internationals all I saw where nightmares
> 
> ...


You need a commercial account with napa ,Just bought 2 rear rotors for $122.57 each


----------



## Knobby57 (Apr 17, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> You need a commercial account with napa ,Just bought 2 rear rotors for $122.57 each


We have that . It was for the front . It also depends greatly on what rear you have installed . I never luck out and have the cheaper . If they say there are 2 possability so say give me the more expensive and I'm almost always correct 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 17, 2015)

Knobby57 said:


> We have that . It was for the front . It also depends greatly on what rear you have installed . I never luck out and have the cheaper . If they say there are 2 possability so say give me the more expensive and I'm almost always correct
> 
> 
> Sent from my phone when I should be working


On my rollback we kept eating rear brakes when first got it ,ended up the rubber hose from the frame to the axle was getting hot or something and collapsing making the brakes drag ,a new hose failed within 6 months ,ended up having a steel braided hose built at the hydrolic shop ,that cured it . there is 2 different brake options on the eaton ,I think i have the uncommon one because they do not stock it here ,the ones i have are about 1/4 of an inch more pad surface, It has gone through a few clutches now ,i think that is from the drivers ,not the truck though , My wrecker is a 97 ,we bought it new ,it only has 35k miles ,the rollback has over 200k now


----------



## fordf150 (Apr 17, 2015)

If your having trouble eating brakes check the brake hoses. the metal clips that are crimped around the hose to bolt them to the frame rust between the tab and hose pinching the hose shut. we always split it open a little bit so that the hose would slide in the bracket.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 17, 2015)

TheViking said:


> I had to put tire chains on a fire truck I said never again if I can order or find it in four wheel drive I'm getting it in four wheel drive.



Sounds like you need to get someone to show you the easy way to chain up. Once you get the hang of it it's no big deal.

I have run several 4x4 MDTs, and I can tell you that most times a 4x2 running tire chains would go in the same places, or at times go further. 
Tire tread makes a huge difference too. One of the trucks, an International, had "Florida tires" even with lockers, and 4x4 it was nearly 100% useless in winter as it couldn't get traction if there was about more than 4 snowflakes.

Your getting into "unicorn" territory with 4x4, as they are not common and the parts will be harder to find vs a standard 2wd. It's not the same as a 4wd pickup truck. The MDTs are all 2wd and an aftermarket outfitter converts them to 4wd.


----------



## TheViking (Apr 17, 2015)

Steve NW WI said:


> Check with Monroe Truck. They sold a ton of em, even did pickup conversions for city cowboys. Think they have a place down in Louisville now, their home office is Madison WI


If I remember correctly these are the guys who built the Ironhide replica trucks from the Transformers movies.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 17, 2015)

TheViking said:


> If I remember correctly these are the guys who built the Ironhide replica trucks from the Transformers movies.



Who is that? Not sure if you are replying to me?


----------



## TheViking (Apr 17, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Who is that? Not sure if you are replying to me?


No I was replying to someone else but Ironhide is a Kodiak truck who is a Autobot in the Transformers movies.

As far as easy I'm sure there was a easier way than what we did but still it took half an hour or so to chain the truck up. That being said I much rather push a button, flip a switch, or pull a lever and put that front axle to work.

I have had to drive on muddy construction sites where even using the locker the dump truck was hard to handle loaded and unloaded, and forget turning in the mud......

Also I have ruined two automatic transmissions on our rural property when taking feed out to the horse or on a return trip having two wheel drive. 

I wouldn't be operating the vehicle in ice or snowy conditions unless returning to the house. Living on a mountain though we get that when the valley only gets rain or just simply cold. Having had to walk a mile in the snow and ice to keep from hitting a vehicle, tree, or person on the side of the road sucks until you can thumb a ride.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Apr 17, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Sounds like you need to get someone to show you the easy way to chain up. Once you get the hang of it it's no big deal.
> 
> I have run several 4x4 MDTs, and I can tell you that most times a 4x2 running tire chains would go in the same places, or at times go further.
> Tire tread makes a huge difference too. One of the trucks, an International, had "Florida tires" even with lockers, and 4x4 it was nearly 100% useless in winter as it couldn't get traction if there was about more than 4 snowflakes.
> ...


Unicorn? You're showing your complete lack of knowledge again. They're maybe 1-2% of the medium duty market, but by no means unicorns or even especially rare. All the utilities and many farms and construction companies use them here.

Freightliner and Navistar do offer 4x4 as a factory option as well.

I can also chain up a tire fairly quickly, but will avoid it if possible. It's the last choice option.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 17, 2015)

Oh. I haven't watched those. Don't get a chance to watch too many movies.

I've never timed it, it's quite possible it would take 30+ mins or so to chain up all the tires. That would only be around 5 mins a tire if you figure 2 steer tires and 4 sets of drive tires. Most of the time I just chain up one set of drives unless it's REAL bad. 

I'm not trying to say that having that front axle help won't be a good thing, but for most folks it's not worth the added cost, weight and maintenance. If your looking into that type of use, an old M35 6x6 would be much more rugged than any Kodiak could think of being and usually are pretty cheap too.


----------



## TheViking (Apr 18, 2015)

Both my children enjoy Transformers as I did as a kid so we have all the DVD's and watch at least one or two a month.

My wife said if I got a Kodiak my son and daughter would love it and I would have to put a Autobot sticker on it.

Yes the two and a half ton trucks are stout and cheap but honestly all I would buy one for would be the axles to build a rock bouncer. I rather have the comfort items and climate control items in the Kodiak. Getting older I prefer air conditioning that really works!


----------

