# F-450 - should I get Diesel or Gas???



## rattler555 (Nov 3, 2009)

Hello Group. I am looking at purchasing a F-450 1-ton dump for a start-up business. I found a few online and would like any opinions on gas versus Diesel. The truck I like is a 97 F-450 7.3 turbo diesel with 92k on it with a 12ft bed. I am not too familiar with Diesel engines and am concerned about high repair costs. From what i have read - diesel engines run longer and are built stronger than gas. Is there anything to look for when assessing the truck? Also, Diesel get better gas mileage that gas correct? Thanks!


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## lxt (Nov 3, 2009)

rattler555 said:


> Hello Group. I am looking at purchasing a F-450 1-ton dump for a start-up business. I found a few online and would like any opinions on gas versus Diesel. The truck I like is a 97 F-450 7.3 turbo diesel with 92k on it with a 12ft bed. I am not too familiar with Diesel engines and am concerned about high repair costs. From what i have read - diesel engines run longer and are built stronger than gas. Is there anything to look for when assessing the truck? Also, Diesel get better gas mileage that gas correct? Thanks!



Diesel, especially with the fords, they are so heavy to begin with that you wont regret the extra torque & power!.....however it depends on the miles you put on a year when comparing the fuel side of things (gas vs diesel)


LXT...........


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## lego1970 (Nov 3, 2009)

Diesels generally last longer due to a few different reasons. 

1. Lubricity of the fuel allows longer lasting piston rings and cylinder wear.
2. The block has to withstand higher compression so in the areas that are not under greater strain get the added benefit of being overly strong.
3. While the piston speed is generaly the same as a gas engine, the rpms of the crank and valve train are much slower therefore less wear on those componants.

The engines main faults normaly lie in the turbo charger, fuel injectors and head gasket, deck issues. Those are some of the more common failures in a diesel engine. Diesel prices have been higher then gasoline for about 8 years now and I don't see it flipping the other way. There is a high demand for diesel fuel and even though it takes less refining then gasoline, there is less diesel grade fuel per barrel of oil compared to gasonline. The other downside is fuel gelling in the winter. With a little additives, and plugging the block heater in at night, you shouldn't have any problems. 

Some of the highlights of a diesel besides longevity, is oil changes normaly can go longer because the filtration systems are better and because the oil keeps particulates suspended better, instead of clumping up in nooks and crannys in the engine. You get more useable torque at lower rpms and normaly better fuel milage. 

I don't know anything in particuliar about the Ford 7.3 diesel, but the above is generally the highs and lows of most diesel engines. Good luck.


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## pdqdl (Nov 3, 2009)

'97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!

The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.

They don't have a conventional fuel injection pump, and No! You can't work on it yourself. _At all_. Except maybe to change fuel filters. And Yes! The dealer knows these things and will break it off on you when the truck finally needs a repair.

If you plan on buying new, and owning it for only 5 or 6 years and then dumping it on *some unsuspecting fool*, the diesels are fine. Otherwise, buy the gas, own something you can own for 15 years. Furthermore, as more people get burned by this engine, it will become well known that you should not buy a used Ford Diesel, so I suspect that the resale value will be low.

I know I have no intention of owning another one. Mine is a 1995, and it cost me over 4 grand to get one cylinder fixed last year. The gas engines work just fine for me, and I used to prefer the diesels, back when they had injection pumps on them.


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## yodayoda (Nov 3, 2009)

I work at a Ford/Dodge dealer, The 7.3 Diesel was a good engine, stay away from the 2003 and newer 6.0 Diesel, way to many problems


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 3, 2009)

They are good with the V10 too diesel engines are my preference only because I usually keep them forever , the only drawback is the winter they require more love than a gas engine ..The other fellow who said too stay away from the 6 liter couldn't be more right they are junk and problamatic the 7.3 is an old engine with many yrs. of service under its belt


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## rattler555 (Nov 3, 2009)

*mileage when you had problems?*



pdqdl said:


> '97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!
> 
> The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.
> 
> ...



PD, how many miles were on your 95' when you had to put work into the cylinder? Thanks for your insight.


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## pdqdl (Nov 3, 2009)

Roughly 110,000 miles. I didn't make a note of that at the time.


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## Toddppm (Nov 3, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> there is less diesel grade fuel per barrel of oil compared to gasonline. .




How does that work? I've never heard that before, don't they use the same petro for all gas/diesel and just refine it more for gas? 


I'll second the stay away from the Ford 6.0's, had to get rid of 2 of them and lost my a:censored: Wasn't only the motors I had multiple problems with though.....I'd say stay away from Ford all together but I know the diehards will say it's a fluke or something. All I know is they did not stand up for their product and it cost me a chitload of money to get rid of that junk.


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## lego1970 (Nov 3, 2009)

I'm not 100% sure how it works and I could be wrong, but I believe the crude oil comes in and then gets seperated thru some type of distilation column. Tar comes off the bottom, and butane comes off the top, kerosene, diesel, gasoline, etc, etc fall in the middle somewhere. Of coarse it has to go thru other processes to become those types of fuels, but I think that's how it starts out. I think it gets seperated thru the different specific gravity before it turns into each type of fuel. At least that's how I always understood it, but I've been wrong plenty of times so I very well could be wrong again.

I believe PDQDL has a chemistry background so maybe he can chime in and explain it better, assuming I'm on the right track to begin with.


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## Bearcreek (Nov 3, 2009)

I have a friend who has an F 450 with the Powerstroke diesel that gets 9 mpg on a good day. Another friend has a F550 with the V10 gas and he occasionally gets as much as 16 mpg highway. Im not sure that thats typical but I would not say that the Powerstroke always gets better mileage than the V10. On the other hand, another friend had a Ford E350 van with a Powerstroke that regularly got 24-27 mpg, much better than the 12-16 mpg that still another friend got with their E350 with the V10. Seems like almost luck of the draw sometimes.


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## Dalmatian90 (Nov 3, 2009)

What lego says.

They can shift a bit to make more gasoline or more diesel/kerosene/no. 2 , but there's only so much raw stuff in each barrel suitable for gasoline v. diesel.

Oil also varies from area to area.

West Texas Intermediate is what you hear prices quoted for in the U.S. It's low in sulfur and yields more gasoline per barrel then most oil.

Brent North Sea crude yields more diesel & no. 2 home heating oil then WTI. 

Part of the reason Europe has more diesels is their petroleum makes more diesel, ours makes more gasoline. 

During the winter some refineries will switch from U.S. oil to North Sea oil in order to make more No. 2 heating oil from each barrel they refine.


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## Toddppm (Nov 3, 2009)

Cool, Very interesting.


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## 48"BAR PINCHER (Nov 3, 2009)

I have lots of friends with 7.3 that have well over 200K and never had engine issues. I personally had 2 F550's with 6.0 diesels. The engines and the trucks were junk. I bought them both new and I'm glad I did because I would have been out of business if I had to pay for all the repairs. Sold both with around 30K miles on them.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 3, 2009)

I really cannot imagine why ford would make a non-diesel f450.


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## Bearcreek (Nov 3, 2009)

The initial cost is lower and, like I said above, in some cases they get better fuel mileage. Don't get me wrong, i'm a diehard diesel guy, but I know what i've seen and heard and can't deny it. The best way to go IMO is swap a Cummins into a F450 or F550.


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## mckeetree (Nov 3, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> The best way to go IMO is swap a Cummins into a F450 or F550.



Yeah right. I'm sure you have done a lot of that.


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## Bearcreek (Nov 3, 2009)

Not me personally, not yet anyway's. I have couple friends that have done that swap and its not all that hard as engine swaps go, especially on an older truck.


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## gr8scott72 (Nov 3, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> Not me personally, not yet anyway's. I have couple friends that have done that swap and its not all that hard as engine swaps go, especially on an older truck.



As long as you got about $10k just burning a hole in your pocket and tons of time to throw at it too.


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Nov 3, 2009)

For larger trucks diesel is the only way to go. How much are you looking to pay for the used truck? Are you looking to buy it out right or taking a loan out etc? In either case the best bet is too buy new, your will save yourself a lot of headaches.


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## rattler555 (Nov 3, 2009)

Lawnmowerboy48 said:


> For larger trucks diesel is the only way to go. How much are you looking to pay for the used truck? Are you looking to buy it out right or taking a loan out etc? In either case the best bet is too buy new, your will save yourself a lot of headaches.



Looking to start out with a used and upgrade accordingly. The truck -97 f450 w/92k is going for 4700. I think that's a steal......I'm also a little sketchy -precautions - so i'm bringing 2 of my friends who will stay in the car and overseer the transaction  . The guy seems ok on the phone I asked him a bunch of questions besides the truck to - aka about his business to feel him out and he seems legit - he's just looking to downsize. Anyways I'm not sucker so hopefully for his sake he's on the up and up  It's a CR listing so we'll see.......


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## TreeW?rx (Nov 3, 2009)

If it is a CR listing, take a friend or a friend of a friend. Someone who knows diesel engines. Let them take it out for a drive, check under the hood and if the guy is running a business he should have a service record on it. Find out where he had it serviced. You might be able to ask them if the guy was on top of maint. or just brought it in to fix stuff that he screwed up. Buying a car form a citizen in one thing, a work truck is a whole other ball of wax. If this guy sells you a lemon and you end up creaming a minivan full of toddlers cause he didnt take good care of his equipment, you have a whole lot more to loose since it is a work/company vehicle. 

Not saying dont do it. Just cover your a:censored:


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## Koa Man (Nov 3, 2009)

You can buy a Dodge Ram 4500 or 5500, equal to the F450 and F550 as far as GVW is concerned and it already comes with a Cummins. I have owned Dodge with the Cummins and was very happy with both. I currently still have my 2001 Ram 2500 with the Cummins and 134,000 miles. Still running strong. I did have to change the injection pump at 110,000 miles, but I did the job myself over one weekend.

You can get either a CAT or Cummins in the Fords if you go F650 or bigger.
I have seen some Ford F450s and F550s I would have liked to buy, but it had the 6.0 PSD which was a deal killer. I also don't like automatic trannys unless it is an Allison.


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 3, 2009)

I have an '09 F450 with the 6 liter diesel. She's new and beautiful, and I love her to pieces.

But... now all you guys have me worried that I'm gonna end up with a 12,000 pound paperweight in a few years when the motor chits the bed. Thanks Fellas!

All in all, the truck is a beast. The 4x4 works great, pulls great, rides as well as I would expect a 450 to ride...

As far as the price of diesel is concerned, so much of it, IMO, has to do with supply and demand. There is always going to be a market for diesel. Tractor-trailers, trains, heavy equipment, ships, work trucks, farm equipment, generators, etc. This is all stuff that HAS to be fueled, or the job doesnt get done. So, the refineries make less of it, because the demand is always high, and the prices stay aloft regardless of whether or not Johnny Smith and Family decide to take a labor day weekend roadtrip.

T


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## afblue (Nov 4, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> '97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!
> 
> *The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.*
> 
> ...



That dealer also make you a deal on some "ocean front property in Arizona" you couldnt refuse?

I am owned the 3 Powerstrokes that Ford has put in their HD trucks. a 1995 7.3, 2000 7.3 and a 2006 6.0. Compared to what the other manufactures produced before 2000 the 7.3 was the best of all of them. THEY DO NOT HAVE $1500 OF ELECTRONICS PER CYLINDER. The injectors new from the dealer are expensive $325 each, but you can buy rebuilt ones for $119. So yes they are more expensive than spark plugs and gas injectors but dont start scaring people because you got a bad deal on your truck. 

The 7.3 Powerstroke is indestructable. My parents neighbor now owns my 1995 with 278,000 miles on it. My father bought my 2000 and it has 242,000 on it. My 2006 had headgasket issues that I was well aware of at 88k, and yes I would say to the average person the 6.0 will make you want to pull your hair out sometimes. 

Especially on a 1994.5-1997 there is no more more electronics on it than a regular gas engine. 1999-2003 7.3 have updated electronics that you can read with a regular code scanner. 

There are 61,458 people on the powerstroke.org forum and at least 20,000 of them are 7.3 owners. A 7.3 loaded will out haul, with better gas mileage, and no overheating a V10, its not a $6-10k option on a new vehicle "just because"


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## Koa Man (Nov 4, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> I have an '09 F450 with the 6 liter diesel. She's new and beautiful, and I love her to pieces.
> 
> T



If you have a '09, you DO NOT have the 6.0 liter PSD. That engine was in the 2003-2007 model years. A 2009 should have the 6.4 liter.


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 4, 2009)

Yes, Thanks Koa...

The truck is up on the farm in NY, and my GF was feeding me vodka last night... My judgement and recollection may not have been up to par last night...

The motor is indeed a 6.4L Powerstroke V8.

T


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## Cowboy Billy (Nov 4, 2009)

The Ford 7.3 diesel is not a ford engine. It is a international diesel engine. With or without a load my F-250 gets 15 mpg. The exception to this is if I am running the rpm faster than 1800 rpm which with my axles comes out to 67 mph. I have hooked up to and pulled a 17,000lb trailer load combo with no problem. After that I put a DP tunner and single shot injectors in it and it gave me a lot more torque. The full set of injectors was $1350 and the programable chip was about $400.

One thing you will want to check on the engine. While it is running take the oil fill cap off of the valve cover and see how much blow by is coming out of it. I did not know to check it when I got mine and I had a broken ring from someone using either on it I think. There was so much blow by I would not have been able to pour oil in it as it would blow it back out. Another note it takes almost five gallons of oil to change it but 8 to 10K oil changes are normal on it.

Billy


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## corsair4360 (Nov 4, 2009)

*Ford Diesels*

The 7.3L, the 6.0L and the 6.4L diesels in Ford trucks are all from International / Navistar. The 7.3L is a rock solid workhorse. The 6.L and 6.4L are powerful, meet current emissions and have caused Ford endless headaches. Th 6.4L is better, the early 6.0L's were a nightmare. Two of my friends work at Ford dealerships and are certified to work on them. One says the 6.0L and 6.4L find a new way to break every two weeks. 

For 2011, Ford will be bringing out their own medium duty diesel engine to replace the 6.4L, developed by Ford. 

Do you think Ford spent lots of money to build a new replacement motor because they were happy with the Navistar / International diesel?


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## Bearcreek (Nov 4, 2009)

It's never made sense to me why Ford didn't use the International DT 360 straight six. They would have had an engine comparable to the 6BT Cummins. I've heard it was the perceived advantage of being able to advertise a V8, which is ridiculous to me, but people are fickle I suppose. I hadn't heard about Ford making their own diesel, that should be interesting. They've been putting diesels in their small pickups for many years overseas.


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## gorman (Nov 4, 2009)

i got a diesel and it's been good to me until now. at 60K miles i had to have the engine pulled out to replace the oil pan which so far has kept me out of work for 2 weeks because i took it to the WRONG place. Hold on to the good mechanics you meet and send the rest to Jiffy Lube.


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## rattler555 (Nov 4, 2009)

Cowboy Billy said:


> The Ford 7.3 diesel is not a ford engine. It is a international diesel engine. With or without a load my F-250 gets 15 mpg. The exception to this is if I am running the rpm faster than 1800 rpm which with my axles comes out to 67 mph. I have hooked up to and pulled a 17,000lb trailer load combo with no problem. After that I put a DP tunner and single shot injectors in it and it gave me a lot more torque. The full set of injectors was $1350 and the programable chip was about $400.
> 
> One thing you will want to check on the engine. While it is running take the oil fill cap off of the valve cover and see how much blow by is coming out of it. I did not know to check it when I got mine and I had a broken ring from someone using either on it I think. There was so much blow by I would not have been able to pour oil in it as it would blow it back out. Another note it takes almost five gallons of oil to change it but 8 to 10K oil changes are normal on it.
> 
> Billy



Thanks for the advice. I will def check for blow by. Also, I found some info online to listen to the engine during a cold start and check for knocks, erratic idling and look for dark black smoke or white smoke indicating glow plug problems. Some dark black smoke is ok during start up but should subside after idling down. Dark black smoke indicates cylinder/compression issues.


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## lego1970 (Nov 4, 2009)

White smoke is generally unburnt fuel. The thumping, knocking and crackling sound you hear when a diesel starts up cold is from not all the cylinders firing or not firing at equal pressure. So it kinda thumps like a Harley until the cylinder temps come up and all fuel is burning properly and equally across the cylinders. Because of the oily fuel you will always have some black smoke but a lot of black smoke at start up can be from worn rings. The majority of the smoke should go away after it warms up and the rings start to seat better. If any of the smoke continues at high levels after it's warmed up, it could be numerous things, worn rings, bad head gasket, leaking injectors, bad seal on the turbocharger, leaking cold air charger or intake manifold, and numerous other things. Also check the oil pressure. Make sure it's not to lazy coming up to pressure and that it's not too low. That could be something as simple as low oil, but could be worn oil pump or worse worn main and rod bearings. I can't think anything else of the top of my head. Good luck.


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## fishercat (Nov 4, 2009)

*i am not a Ford fan.*

must be from years of working on them.the are great flower pots though.

in all fairness,my buddy has a 2004 F-550 with a V-10 and has had no problems.i cannot say that for my buddies with their diesels.


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## TreeClimber57 (Nov 4, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> You can buy a Dodge Ram 4500 or 5500, equal to the F450 and F550 as far as GVW is concerned and it already comes with a Cummins. I have owned Dodge with the Cummins and was very happy with both. I currently still have my 2001 Ram 2500 with the Cummins and 134,000 miles. Still running strong. I did have to change the injection pump at 110,000 miles, but I did the job myself over one weekend.
> 
> You can get either a CAT or Cummins in the Fords if you go F650 or bigger.
> I have seen some Ford F450s and F550s I would have liked to buy, but it had the 6.0 PSD which was a deal killer. I also don't like automatic trannys unless it is an Allison.



Personally the ONLY diesel engines I would buy are Detroit, CAT or Cummins. Which is why I use only Dodge for the trucks. I have yet to have a problem with the Cummins engine. Now the transmission is another story.. and if you do buy a Dodge get a manual transmission (IMHO). Together the two will outlast about 3 bodies on the vehicle.


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## gilraine (Nov 4, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> '97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!
> 
> The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.
> 
> ...


sorry you had bad luck with yours, the 30 or so we had at work were great. we replaced them with isuzu NQRs and the fords were better trucks..we ran several of those box trucks to 600K on the original engine.. a gas engine has no place in a 1.25 ton truck IMO.. the 7.3 is one of the best diesels ever put in a light duty truck, ranked only behind the 12 valve Cummins IMO...


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## John D (Nov 4, 2009)

Your looking at a 97 truck...so a V10 is out...it would be a 460 in a truck that old,.and forget it! I say take a chance with the 7.3 PSD,its a good motor if it was maintained.Oil changes are very important on the 7.3 as the injector life is directly tied to the oil condition.A 460 in an F450.would get 3-6 mpg in a good day and not enough power,as the old 460 wasnt exactly a powerhouse.


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm guessing you dont have to worry about cold weather out there in Maui? Then definately no contest between gas and diesel...

gotta go, my GF is feeding me vodka again...

T


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## lostcoastland (Nov 4, 2009)

get a six speed diesel cummins...7.3's have thin cylender walls..a "improvement" over the 6.9 "my beloved smokey steed"..A straight six is simply a better design..Have you HEARD those cummings engines??!~!


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## JTinaTree (Nov 4, 2009)

Too many hear says on hear about Ford Diesels and not enough people that know what there talking about..
Im more than a Qualified Mechanic to work on Ford Diesels.. Ive got a 04F250 6.0 with almost 150k and still running strong.. Also know several people with high milage 6o's . The main reason for problems is the emission Bull [email protected]% That ford was mandated to put on all 03 and newer Diesel engines.. Take the converter off, Block off the Egr Cooler and let it Rock.. The 7.3 are good if you dont mind oil in your driveway.. The external oil lines will always seep oil.. and a stock 6.0 will get better mpg and out pull it with 27-30psi spooling up in the turbo All though I will never buy a 7.3 or newer stopped up Emissionized 6.4.. All diesel engines have there little quearks about them..
Get the torquey v10 if you dont wont to join the Diesel Club.. But once you spool up a Powerstroke with 12k behind you and still have plenty of pedal left, you wont settle for a gaser..


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## rattler555 (Nov 4, 2009)

*got it - with extraneous taxes*

I just picked up the truck. Engine sounded really good for it's age. The exhaust looked good - it was practically clear after the initial startup. Tranny shift smooth. The hoist operated fine. Brakes worked. There is a manifold leak and an oil pan gasket leak which shouldn't be too big of a deal to fix; i think you need to lift the engine to replace the oil pan gasket. The truck ran great for the ride home which was almost 80 miles until the copper pulled me over for the a rear tail light out 10 miles from home. He was a real a-hole. He tried to cite me for driving an uninsured vehicle, driving a unregistered vehicle, and to top it off using fraudulent tags. The guy I bought it off of said I can leave them on for the ride home and send them back to him. I thought that my regular auto policy would cover new vehicles for a grace period, turns out it does but not for this truck since it would be covered under a commercial policy. While the cops was writing out the tickets I called my insurance and got the truck covered went to the cop who reluctant as he was dropped the uninsured violation after talking to my agent. He still gave me the two other tickets which are about $500 a piece. I talked the guys who sold it to me, he said we can just say that we were going to do the actual transfer tomorrow and get it notarized and that he allowed me to drive the truck under his insurance and registration. I'll see what happens at court. One good thing is I got the truck for only 4k.


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## lego1970 (Nov 5, 2009)

Sorry to hear about the tickets. What an a-hole. Glad the truck worked out good for you.


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## Biker Dude (Nov 5, 2009)

JTinaTree said:


> Too much hearsay about Ford Diesels and not enough people that know what they're talking about..


I was thinking the same thing. The only real issue that the 7.3 had was it needed the cam sensor replaced every 125,000 miles or so and after 200,000 the valve cover gaskets and under cover wiring harnesses needed replacing. My F250 4X4 has a 7.3 with 377,000 miles on it and it still purrs like a kitten and pulls a load well. I'm sure your new truck will provide years of service and you won't be disappointed.


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## TreeClimber57 (Nov 5, 2009)

lostcoastland said:


> Have you HEARD those cummings engines??!~!



Yep..  Starting one up in five minutes.


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## Greenstar (Nov 5, 2009)

rattler555 said:


> Hello Group. I am looking at purchasing a F-450 1-ton dump for a start-up business. I found a few online and would like any opinions on gas versus Diesel. The truck I like is a 97 F-450 7.3 turbo diesel with 92k on it with a 12ft bed. I am not too familiar with Diesel engines and am concerned about high repair costs. From what i have read - diesel engines run longer and are built stronger than gas. Is there anything to look for when assessing the truck? Also, Diesel get better gas mileage that gas correct? Thanks!



They do not really get better gas mileage. They both get about the same, depending on what working order they are tuned too of course.

My last two Fords have both been DIESELS. A 95 7.3L and now I have a 2005 6.0L. 
I think they are way too loud, and it is really starting to get to me. I remember this was my biggest complaint with it when test driving before I bought this new truck and now I just cant stand it. Its to the point where it gives you headaches! I'm not joking. Everyone also always hears you coming and going, and you wake up the entire neighborhood by just driving down the street.
I will definitely buy a gas Ford next time as long as they still have the Powerstrokes. If they ever quiet them down I may reconsider, but its a no brainer for me right now. I would trade this for a gas in a minute.
Also, finding diesel fuel when you are low in an unfamiliar area can be a pain in the ass sometimes too!
Good luck.

PS. btw, my 6.0L runs great too, just WAY TOO LOUD, and its a deal breaker. Its SO ANNOYING! :censored:


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## Greenstar (Nov 5, 2009)

lostcoastland said:


> get a six speed diesel cummins...7.3's have thin cylender walls..a "improvement" over the 6.9 "my beloved smokey steed"..A straight six is simply a better design..Have you HEARD those cummings engines??!~!



lostcoastland, what do you know about the CUMMINS DIESELS ??
Are they always going to be loud?

I bought one, only because I plan on converting it to run on grease, and it had an aftermarket exhaust on it which was quite loud. Sounded like a tractor trailer truck, no joke (although not rattley annoyingly loud like a powerstroke I will ad).

MY EXHAUST GOT STOLEN HOWEVER, and I must replace it now!! Is there a good way to go that will still provide ample performance while also quieting it down? If anyone has some experience with this please share your advice. Thank you.
Greenstar-Boston


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## fishercat (Nov 5, 2009)

*sucks about the cop.*



rattler555 said:


> I just picked up the truck. Engine sounded really good for it's age. The exhaust looked good - it was practically clear after the initial startup. Tranny shift smooth. The hoist operated fine. Brakes worked. There is a manifold leak and an oil pan gasket leak which shouldn't be too big of a deal to fix; i think you need to lift the engine to replace the oil pan gasket. The truck ran great for the ride home which was almost 80 miles until the copper pulled me over for the a rear tail light out 10 miles from home. He was a real a-hole. He tried to cite me for driving an uninsured vehicle, driving a unregistered vehicle, and to top it off using fraudulent tags. The guy I bought it off of said I can leave them on for the ride home and send them back to him. I thought that my regular auto policy would cover new vehicles for a grace period, turns out it does but not for this truck since it would be covered under a commercial policy. While the cops was writing out the tickets I called my insurance and got the truck covered went to the cop who reluctant as he was dropped the uninsured violation after talking to my agent. He still gave me the two other tickets which are about $500 a piece. I talked the guys who sold it to me, he said we can just say that we were going to do the actual transfer tomorrow and get it notarized and that he allowed me to drive the truck under his insurance and registration. I'll see what happens at court. One good thing is I got the truck for only 4k.



no reason for that crap.in the future,always say you borrowed it.never tell them you just bought it.that just sets you up for what you just went through.sucks you have to lie these days but they cause it with the BS.

guy you bought it from sounds cool.


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## yodayoda (Nov 5, 2009)

Congrats, sounds like a good deal to me.


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## rattler555 (Nov 5, 2009)

yodayoda said:


> Congrats, sounds like a good deal to me.



Yeah, now it's time to start cutting down some f-ing trees :greenchainsaw: !!!


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## Greenstar (Nov 5, 2009)

Yeah 4 grand for an F450, cant beat that!
Didnt see that you had bought it yet.


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## pdqdl (Nov 5, 2009)

afblue said:


> That dealer also make you a deal on some "ocean front property in Arizona" you couldnt refuse?
> 
> I am owned the 3 Powerstrokes that Ford has put in their HD trucks. a 1995 7.3, 2000 7.3 and a 2006 6.0. Compared to what the other manufactures produced before 2000 the 7.3 was the best of all of them. THEY DO NOT HAVE $1500 OF ELECTRONICS PER CYLINDER. The injectors new from the dealer are expensive $325 each, but you can buy rebuilt ones for $119. So yes they are more expensive than spark plugs and gas injectors but dont start scaring people because you got a bad deal on your truck.
> 
> ...



Nonsense. 

The dealer that fixed it is the Kansas City area distributor for light truck parts. And YES, they have "in the head" injection system that is electronically fired, and YES, they cost about $1500 in parts. PER CYLINDER! And I confirmed that fact this morning.

_*More*_ electronics than a gas...probably not. More _*expensive*_...definitely.

I did not say they were less reliable, I said that the cost of repair made the truck not worth fixing. By the time the engine needs repair, it's value has gone down to less than the cost of the repair. 

It's simple. A truck with a 10 year old powerstroke diesel should be considered to have a "dispose on engine repair" value.


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## Koa Man (Nov 5, 2009)

There is no way the 7.3 liter PSD is better than the 12 valve Cummins with the P pump. The 12 valve Cummins is a super reliable engine with very little problems other than having to tab the dowel pin, which is only a 2 hour job.


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## yodayoda (Nov 5, 2009)

Guys, he already bought the truck, in my opinion, good deal on a good truck, and the 7.3 was a good motor.Not better than the cummins in my opinion, but much better than a 6.0 and all around a very good motor


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## Bearcreek (Nov 5, 2009)

:agree2:


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## John D (Nov 5, 2009)

:agree2: I second that.The 7.3 is the best engine to have in an f450,if you take care of it,it will last a long time.


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## rattler555 (Nov 5, 2009)

*should be able to get out of it*



fishercat said:


> no reason for that crap.in the future,always say you borrowed it.never tell them you just bought it.that just sets you up for what you just went through.sucks you have to lie these days but they cause it with the BS.
> 
> guy you bought it from sounds cool.



After meeting the dude again at a tags and title place I ACTUALLY transferred the title. I realized too that we post dated when signing the title for 11/05/09 today. I will show up at court and ask the officer when he pulled me over. And then ask him what date is on the copy of the title he has and then show the judge my title xfer from today. I should be good. The cop was too vacuous to realize this. Maybe his last two brain cells collided


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## JTinaTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> They do not really get better gas mileage. They both get about the same, depending on what working order they are tuned too of course.
> 
> My last two Fords have both been DIESELS. A 95 7.3L and now I have a 2005 6.0L.
> I think they are way too loud, and it is really starting to get to me. I remember this was my biggest complaint with it when test driving before I bought this new truck and now I just cant stand it. Its to the point where it gives you headaches! I'm not joking. Everyone also always hears you coming and going, and you wake up the entire neighborhood by just driving down the street.
> ...




You think the 6.0 is too loud...what? Go and stand next to the drivers window and try to talk on 7.3, and then rethink that statement.. If you want a quiet powerstroke then go buy the new 6.4l.


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## fishercat (Nov 5, 2009)

*in all fairness.......................*

"two brain cells"

you give him too much credit.


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## Mikecutstrees (Nov 5, 2009)

I have the 7.3 in my F-450. It's been an excellent motor. Look out for bad cam sensors. The engine will just die. Then will restart right away or sometimes in a few minutes. It's common and pretty cheap to fix. Also look out for rusted out oil pans. Very common from what I hear. Mine is still good at 80,000 though. Hopefully it makes it a few more years..... My neighbor had a 6.0 and told me how great it was. Mine is still running strong, his is long gone..... Mike


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## Biker Dude (Nov 5, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> The dealer that fixed it is the Kansas City area distributor for light truck parts. And YES, they have "in the head" injection system that is electronically fired, and YES, they cost about $1500 in parts. PER CYLINDER! And I confirmed that fact this morning.


Could you please list the parts you are talking about and their respective costs? The only parts I can think of that are associated to each cylinder are the injectors and the glow plugs. Injectors go for $300 each and the glow plugs are $10 each. Obviously I am missing something here, please enlighten me.


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## afblue (Nov 6, 2009)

Biker Dude said:


> Could you please list the parts you are talking about and their respective costs? The only parts I can think of that are associated to each cylinder are the injectors and the glow plugs. Injectors go for $300 each and the glow plugs are $10 each. Obviously I am missing something here, please enlighten me.



I second this!!! :agree2: I must have missed at least $1200 of Jedi invisible parts PER CYLINDER, when I put the set of Stage 2 injectors in my 2000. To the Original posting individual and anyone else that is looking to learn about Powerstroke Diesels go to www.powerstroke.org some great people over there the same as here.


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## pdqdl (Nov 6, 2009)

One place I found lists a bunch of injectors, with many different grades and price options. You can look them up for yourselves. they are a bit vague on whether the prices quoted are per set or per injector: 
http://www.dpppower.com/injectors.html

I couldn't find anybody in KC that would work on my diesel that seemed remotely capable of working on them. After I got my "screw you" estimate, I shopped around even more for someone to beat the price I was quoted...No luck there. So the big dealer got to stick it to me, despite my extensive attempts to get away. And no, they WILL NOT install rebuilt injectors.

What parts did they stick me with besides an injector? I don't remember, and I haven't been able to find the invoice. But it was a lot of money, and I couldn't find any other repair shop that would take on the engine problem, even after I got the estimate.

Even after your dealer puts in the individual injector that is a problem, then your dealer will stick you with all the other oil pump issues that they can invent. As I recall, these injectors are powered by a high pressure motor oil pump and...you will always need one if your injectors are declared in need of repair. Then there is all the wiring harness that your dealer will declare desperately in need of replacement in order to make it work, and by the time it is all done, you will be more than adequately screwed.


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## lego1970 (Nov 6, 2009)

Midway or Midwest (whatever they are called) up by Worlds of fun won't let you supply the parts escpecially if it's rebuilt componants. The sad thing about that is they will put rebuilt parts on your vehicle and charge you for new parts. To top it off their labor rates and the amount of hours they charge to do the work is high, and frankly I never thought the quality of their work matched their prices. If you ever have diesel trucks again in the future, you can try MHC Kenworth out in Olathe. Talk to Darcey, Ralph, or John at the service desk. They work on mid size diesel trucks, or at least they used to. They are very pricey but they were always good to me when I had my semi, and stood by their work. There are a couple other ok places out on the Kansas side that seem to do decent quality work at decent prices buy I can't think of their names. If I think of them later, I'll let you know so you can have for future reference.


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## pdqdl (Nov 6, 2009)

Yep. That is who stuck it to me. Thanks for the reference.

The last time I took them a truck, they charged me $160 for a brake repair estimate, and that wasn't even with a guarantee that the brakes would work when completed. Their plan was to fix everything they could find and then give me another estimate to finish the job. We took it back to our shop and fixed everything they diagnosed; our expense was less than 1/4th of their repair estimate.

Sadly, I was forced to take the truck to them once before because the brakes could NOT be fixed by us, and two other brake service centers. I ended up dragging it to them in desperation because I had spent hundreds of dollars at other brake centers that simply couldn't fix the brakes. Midway has the technical resources to research the factory records and figure out the tough problems. Unfortunately, they will rob you blind doing it.

It turned out that the original brake problem was a mismatch in displacement between the front brake calipers and the aftermarket master cylinder that we (and all the other brake repair specialists) had installed. It took them a LONG time to figure it out, too, but they finally got it right. 

They are good, but OMG expensive.


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## Biker Dude (Nov 6, 2009)

I guess I'm not up on having someone else fix my stroke for me so I suppose that you could get screwed on an injector job. When I have to do an injector I always recommend replacing the o-rings on all the injectors unless it has been done recently. Deteriorated o-rings can play hell with the motor and clog the fuel filter housing and pressure regulator. Valve cover wiring harnesses do burn out but they are relatively cheap and easy to replace as is the cam sensor. I would like to try a Cummins for comparison. The only known problem they have is the injection pump failing and they are $800-$1200 to replace. 

To each his own whether it be diesel engines or chainsaws.
:greenchainsaw:


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## Biker Dude (Nov 6, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> It turned out that the original brake problem was a mismatch in displacement between the front brake calipers and the aftermarket master cylinder that we (and all the other brake repair specialists) had installed. It took them a LONG time to figure it out, too, but they finally got it right.


Was it a Ford F700 with a Hydro-max brake booster by chance?


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## pdqdl (Nov 6, 2009)

Nope. Just a plain old F-350. I was really pissed off when I finally got done with the brake problem, then I had the diesel engine problem on the same truck!


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## SawTroll (Nov 7, 2009)

rattler555 said:


> Hello Group. I am looking at purchasing a F-450 1-ton dump for a start-up business. I found a few online and would like any opinions on gas versus Diesel. The truck I like is a 97 F-450 7.3 turbo diesel with 92k on it with a 12ft bed. I am not too familiar with Diesel engines and am concerned about high repair costs. From what i have read - diesel engines run longer and are built stronger than gas. Is there anything to look for when assessing the truck? Also, Diesel get better gas mileage that gas correct? Thanks!




Diesel pollutes the area around you a lot more than gas do, but some say it is better in the global perspective.......


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## mattfr12 (Nov 8, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> I'm guessing you dont have to worry about cold weather out there in Maui? Then definately no contest between gas and diesel...
> 
> gotta go, my GF is feeding me vodka again...
> 
> T




put lucas oil stabilizer in thier i think its what kept my fords going. thier motors are definetly not a cummins or a duramax. i have a F550 with a 6.0 liter in it and havent had a problem knock on wood. i think the oil stablizer helps because of dry starting. around here turbos seem to go on the fords. but in my opinion i wouldnt buy another ford just because thier motors are not up to par in power or reliablity. my personal vehicle is a chevy dual wheel one ton with a duramax and it is significantly more powerful than my ford. my neighbor ended up getting a newer model ford because he lemon lawed his 6.0 and won.


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## Bearcreek (Nov 8, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> Diesel pollutes the area around you a lot more than gas do, but some say it is better in the global perspective.......


 
I used to live in a county where you had to get anything under 10,000 gvw emission checked every year. I'm not really sure what they were checking for, but whatever it was, diesels don't make any of it. You had to get them checked anyway but it always came out 0 on the scale. Didn't make much sense to me. I've heard that diesel exhaust has larger particles or something like that, so it gets washed out of the air easier and so is not as bad as gas exhaust. Who knows?


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## arbor pro (Nov 9, 2009)

I have both a '90 f350 with 7.3 powerstroke and a '02 gmc with 6.0L gas. Both have been very good engines and have similar pulling power. Both have similar fuel mileage - around 9-10mpg.

I had an injector go bad in the 7.3 powerstroke but no other problems. Starts hard in the cold so I use a core heater in the winter and it starts fine. 

Next to the 7.3 powerstroke, I'm partial to the 5.9 cummins for what it's worth. Also had very good luck with it.


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## rattler555 (Nov 9, 2009)

*thank you everyone for all your valuable feedback.*

The truck is running very good. Thanks again for all the valuable insight and personal experiences shared. It absolutely helped me in making the right decision in choosing a used truck. Best of luck to all of you


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## Bearcreek (Nov 9, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> I have both a '90 f350 with 7.3 powerstroke and a '02 gmc with 6.0L gas. Both have been very good engines and have similar pulling power. Both have similar fuel mileage - around 9-10mpg.
> 
> I had an injector go bad in the 7.3 powerstroke but no other problems. Starts hard in the cold so I use a core heater in the winter and it starts fine.
> 
> Next to the 7.3 powerstroke, I'm partial to the 5.9 cummins for what it's worth. Also had very good luck with it.



Did you swap the Powerstroke in? That would be a cool swap. I liked that body style better than the mid 90's style.


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## arbor pro (Nov 10, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> Did you swap the Powerstroke in? That would be a cool swap. I liked that body style better than the mid 90's style.



No, the Powerstroke was in it when I bought it.


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## Bearcreek (Nov 10, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> No, the Powerstroke was in it when I bought it.



I've never heard of someone putting a Powerstroke in an older Ford like that. Cummins are a lot more popular for a swap like that. Got any pics?


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## chevyforlife21 (Nov 10, 2009)

get a gas powered chevy or ford if you must have a ford lol. the gas engines are easier to work on.


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## gilraine (Nov 10, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> No, the Powerstroke was in it when I bought it.


you sure its a powerstroke??? the older 7.3 is indirectly injected, whereas the powerstrokes are directly injected.. people think that its a 7.3, its a powerstroke, not quite that simple..


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## Bearcreek (Nov 10, 2009)

gilraine said:


> you sure its a powerstroke??? the older 7.3 is indirectly injected, whereas the powerstrokes are directly injected.. people think that its a 7.3, its a powerstroke, not quite that simple..



Thats right. They didn't start using the Powerstroke until 1994. Thats why I figured it was a swap.


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## arbor pro (Nov 12, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> Thats right. They didn't start using the Powerstroke until 1994. Thats why I figured it was a swap.



ok you got me. I'm clueless. It was advertised as a 7.3 powerstroke when i bought it. My mechanic does all the work on it and I've never asked whether it was or wasn't a powerstroke.

Is there much of a power difference between the two?


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## Bearcreek (Nov 15, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> ok you got me. I'm clueless. It was advertised as a 7.3 powerstroke when i bought it. My mechanic does all the work on it and I've never asked whether it was or wasn't a powerstroke.
> 
> Is there much of a power difference between the two?



I've seen the old 7.3 advertised as a powerstroke before. To confuse matters further they turbo'ed the last few of that engine that they used. Not sure of the exact numbers but I know they did on some of the last production runs. There is definitely a significant power difference between the old 7.3 and the powerstroke.


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## John D (Nov 15, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> I've seen the old 7.3 advertised as a powerstroke before. To confuse matters further they turbo'ed the last few of that engine that they used. Not sure of the exact numbers but I know they did on some of the last production runs. There is definitely a significant power difference between the old 7.3 and the powerstroke.



IDI7.3 non turbo 185hp,7.3 turbo IDI(93-94 only) 190hp.PSD came out in 94 in manaul trans only mid year at 215hp,in 95 it was available across the board with autos at 215hp.
The IDI engines are much simpler and more reliable,and there injection system is much cheaper to work on.They have a full mechanical pump.All that really goes wrong is glow plugs and controllers,which are both common items on PSDs as well.They arent as powerful as a PSD thats for sure.


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## GlennG (Nov 16, 2009)

My service area is only a 10 mile radius. And often I travel a mile or 2 between jobs. My truck is gas even though my equipment is diesel. If I had a diesel truck it would never warm up.I have thought long about purchasing a diesel but it doesent work for me. I only drive 6000 miles a year which, in my opinion is not enough to work a diesel like it should be worked. F-450 5.4l works for me.


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## John D (Nov 17, 2009)

GlennG said:


> My service area is only a 10 mile radius. And often I travel a mile or 2 between jobs. My truck is gas even though my equipment is diesel. If I had a diesel truck it would never warm up.I have thought long about purchasing a diesel but it doesent work for me. I only drive 6000 miles a year which, in my opinion is not enough to work a diesel like it should be worked. F-450 5.4l works for me.



F450 5.4? To my knowledge such a combination doesnt exist.....


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## GlennG (Nov 17, 2009)

Proof is sitting in my driveway. 2004 model.


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## GlennG (Nov 17, 2009)

John D said:


> F450 5.4? To my knowledge such a combination doesnt exist.....



Oops I made a mistake. My truck is an F-350 w/5.4L . Perfect for my pruning business.






Sometimes I wish it were bigger and it had a crane. But at least I can drive on lawns without damage.


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## fishercat (Nov 18, 2009)

*if you need a deisel.................*

i would go Mitsubishi Fuso 6 cylinder 4x4.it's an inline which is proven superior to the V configuration.

i know several guys here with them that have no problems with them.


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## Mikecutstrees (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow thats a huge stump. Hope your not planning on putting that in the back of the 350. good luck w/ the new truck!... Mike


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## GlennG (Nov 18, 2009)

For my next truck I am planing to get an Isuzu or or Fuso. Leaning towards the Fuso 4x4. Only question is how well will it pull a 7 to 10k trailer? How are the brakes? THe brakes on my F-350 are not so good.


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## GlennG (Nov 18, 2009)

For my next truck I am planing to get an Isuzu or or Fuso. Leaning towards the Fuso 4x4. Only question is how well will it pull a 7 to 10k trailer? How are the brakes?


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## Koa Man (Nov 18, 2009)

The towing capacity of almost all cabovers is very weak. Lucky to find one that can pull 6K. That is the reason I stick with conventional cab trucks. My 3/4 ton Dodge with a hopped up Cummins can pull 10K up 6% grades at 70 mph.


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## GlennG (Nov 18, 2009)

It all went in the truck and trailer as firewood. Due to an arbor at the entrance of this property it was not possible to get a large truck on site. I got the job because no other company wanted to bid on it. It was one of the funnest jobs I ever did. I now prune on this property the homeowner request I bring Fred the dog when I visit. Fred rides around with me and seals the deal everytime. Largest removal I have done. Im still heating my house with wood from that tree 3 years later. That 1 tree yielded 14 cords of firewood. Stump measurred 72" x 81" dbh. Probably the biggest tree I will ever cut. The puppy "Fred" is now a fit 120lb dog and he is doing great. Fred is trained to bring firewood from the woodshed to the backporch 1 split at a time. great dog HE IS SO COOL. Fred also hunts and fishes


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## GlennG (Nov 19, 2009)

I dont need to go fast. 50 mph is enough. but I do need to pull a 4000 pound chipper up hills in western PA. I also need to brake down hills with chipper and 2 ton of chips and/or logs. Braking, in my opinion is the weak link with 1 ton pickup trucks.


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## fishercat (Nov 19, 2009)

*my budy has a 2wd 4cyl Fuso.*

pulls his bobcat and 1230 vermeer no problem.not both at the same time of course.


are they putting a reliable transmission behind that Cummins yet?


i'd rather have reliability than speed.


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## Koa Man (Nov 19, 2009)

The autos are junk unless you get a new Dodge with the model 68 transmission. My truck has the 6 speed stick with a South Bend clutch.
No problems with the tranny and I have 135,000 miles, most of it towing or carrying a load.

As far as braking, I have a PacBrake exhaust brake and brakes on the trailer.
It stops very quickly with a load, but I don't go fast down hill or when traffic is around. I also don't go 70 mph up hills either as the exhaust gas temp will start to get too high. I know it can do 70 mph for brief periods because I tried it once towing 9780 lbs. I normally travel 50 mph up that 6% grade to keep the egt at just under 1200º.


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## capetrees (Mar 21, 2010)

I've read through all the posts to this thread and still need some reassurance before purchasing.

My old GMC is on the way out. Fact is, it's off the road. I've been looking for a one ton and have narrowed the search. Both are Ford f350, both 2005, both 30K miles. One has gas V10 motor, all the bells and whistles, maintained/owned by ASE certified mechanic and no plow, used for side jobs, $22000. 
The other, 6.0 diesel with a plow, used in landscaping company, claimed to be in perfect condition, $24000

Others trucks in mind like a 1999 f350 and a f550 both with 7.3 but look to be a bit tougher shape. Any direction if anyone were in my shoes? New is out of the question. How do the motors compare? Everything else seems comparable. I've looked at the specs on the motors but I'm looking for reality input. I realize the 6.0 has had its problems but then so did the V10 with sparkplugs siezing. The 7.3 is a nice motor but the ones available are 11 years old. Any insight?

thanks


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## grandpatractor (Mar 21, 2010)

capetrees said:


> I've read through all the posts to this thread and still need some reassurance before purchasing.
> 
> My old GMC is on the way out. Fact is, it's off the road. I've been looking for a one ton and have narrowed the search. Both are Ford f350, both 2005, both 30K miles. One has gas V10 motor, all the bells and whistles, maintained/owned by ASE certified mechanic and no plow, used for side jobs, $22000.
> The other, 6.0 diesel with a plow, used in landscaping company, claimed to be in perfect condition, $24000
> ...



I would definitely take the 7.3 over the 6.0. Then the gasser.


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## gr8scott72 (Mar 21, 2010)

capetrees said:


> I've read through all the posts to this thread and still need some reassurance before purchasing.
> 
> My old GMC is on the way out. Fact is, it's off the road. I've been looking for a one ton and have narrowed the search. Both are Ford f350, both 2005, both 30K miles. One has gas V10 motor, all the bells and whistles, maintained/owned by ASE certified mechanic and no plow, used for side jobs, $22000.
> The other, 6.0 diesel with a plow, used in landscaping company, claimed to be in perfect condition, $24000
> ...




05 V10 doesn't have the spark plug issues. That was on the earlier models.

6.0 scares me to death with all the stories I've read about them.

I'd either find a nicer 7.3 or just get the V10.

(Btw, I have a 2000 Excursion with a V10 and it has almost 180k completely trouble free miles on it. I tow 8k - 14k lbs with it daily and did so for the last 30k miles in the last year.)


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## fishercat (Mar 21, 2010)

*as much as I hate Fords...................*



capetrees said:


> I've read through all the posts to this thread and still need some reassurance before purchasing.
> 
> My old GMC is on the way out. Fact is, it's off the road. I've been looking for a one ton and have narrowed the search. Both are Ford f350, both 2005, both 30K miles. One has gas V10 motor, all the bells and whistles, maintained/owned by ASE certified mechanic and no plow, used for side jobs, $22000.
> The other, 6.0 diesel with a plow, used in landscaping company, claimed to be in perfect condition, $24000
> ...



my buddies 2004 F550 with a V10 has been damn reliable,even with the automatic transmission.


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## 2FatGuys (Mar 22, 2010)

2005 6.0L should be fine. There are more maintenance costs with a 6.0L than a 7.3L. If you are looking for power and reliability, the 99-03 7.3L is the most sought after Ford (actually International T-444E) diesel engine. Despite what was posted in an earlier post, the 99-03 7.3L is easy to work on, parts are easy to find, and they can be easily and reliably modified for increased HP, torque and MPG.

We have 3 1-ton Fords... (1) an "early" 99 F-350 crew cab dually 7.3L with about 200k miles (original injectors, glow plugs, turbo, etc.) that still drives almost lie new. (2) 2000 F-350 crew cab SRW 7.3L with only 60k miles (yeah... it's the "Sunday go to meeting" truck... ) (3) 2005 Excessive... I mean Excursion... with 6.0L and almost 175K miles. The 6.0L has had to have more maintenance than the other two combined, but still hasn't had the problems we had with the 2003 Excessive (6.0L).

I would caution you about diesels if you want to plow. Most of the plow websites won't configure one to a 1 ton with diesel. It places too much weight on the front axle.

My vote for a "work truck" is 99-03 7.3L....


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## talltreeclimber (Mar 22, 2010)

get the 7.3L


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## capetrees (Mar 26, 2010)

Wanted something with the 7.3 but nothing decent was out there so I went with the gas V10. 2005, 31,000 miles, plow frame, 4x4, used for plowing one parking lot and used rarely in the summer months. No scratches, dings, dents or rust(some on the frame). Even has a backup camera! $22,500.

Thanks for all the input.


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## John D (Mar 26, 2010)

IMO,a clean newer V10 is a much better choice than an older whipped 7.3PSD.The V10 is cheap and easy to keep running should it need repair work(unlikely).


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## indiansprings (Mar 26, 2010)

Go with a diesel, we've used them for years on the farm and as daily drivers.
I've owned the Ford,Dodge and Chevy. The 7.3 was an outstanding motor, I run one to almost 300k before selling it with no issues. I was given a 2005 crew cab 3/4 ton Ford lariat 4x4 for a sales bonus, it had the 6.0 diesel, what a piece of crap, got rid of it with 40k miles, the only thing good about it was it didn't cost me a penny, great truck horrible motor. My favorite out of the bunch is the Chevy Duramax with the Allison behind it, fantastic mileage great tranny, quiet no issues. Our wood truck is a Dodge 2500 4x4 with the Cummins, gave 1500.00 for it as it was a bank repo, interior was ROUGH, it had around 180k on it when we got it, the Cummins has been flawless, the only problem is that it is a Cummins with a Dodge wrapped around it. 
Don't be afraid of a diesel, the key is like anything else preventive maint., clean fuel, change fuel filters every 15 to 20k miles, we change our oil in ours every 10k miles, using Rotella 15-40. My BIL has over 375k on a 7.3, an uncle has run a Cummins up over 350k in an old 94 Dodge 3/4 ton truck, after you use them as farm for a while as a feed truck they usually get so beat up and broke down from hauling two big round bales at a time that after a few years they won't give nothing for trade, it's just cheaper to run them until they die.
Stay away from the Dodge diesel auto trannies.....weak. Also stay away from the 6.5 chevy diesel, anything after I believe 2001 had the Duramax. The Duramax was/is an isuzu design, the Ford 7.3 was an International design.
Don't be afraid to go with a diesel, see if they will let you take it to a shop and have a scan run on it, the scan will tell if it has any issues/injector/pump etc. around here a scan only runs 40.00 bucks, cheap when your dropping that kind of coin.


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## John D (Mar 26, 2010)

The problem with an older 7.3 isnt the miles,its the wear and tear,and age...my friends have the 7.3s and they are not fun once they get about 8-10 yrs old....Oil pans rotting,IDM modules corroding,injector harnesses going bad,constant cam sensors,starter motors, oil leaks,fuel transfer pumps,fuel tanks flaking and clogging the fuel pickup,exhaust leaks from the manifolds to the turbo,its just a never ending problem running one.2 of the trucks are one of my best friends both have under 80K on them,but they have both had all of the above issues...one is an 01,one an 02.The actual engine is fine,its the electronics,and hardware around it.....


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## Mikecutstrees (Sep 4, 2010)

GlennG said:


> For my next truck I am planing to get an Isuzu or or Fuso. Leaning towards the Fuso 4x4. Only question is how well will it pull a 7 to 10k trailer? How are the brakes?



The weak link of my 2000 Fuso FH is definately the brakes. It has a 17,995lb GVW and 24,000 lb GCVW but it has poor brakes. With the 5,000lb chipper and loaded with chips you better be using the exaust brake to slow down. You will burn up a set of brakes quick if your hard on them. I don't know if the newer ones are better though. With good trailer brakes you might be ok. Check the GCVW to make sure its leagal. I still love that truck though!

Mike


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## Hddnis (Sep 4, 2010)

The little cab overs do not have good brakes for towing as a general rule. Class 5-6 cabovers will have much better brakes, with the expense of the heavier truck overall. For a lot of the work we do as tree guys a standard International is the way to go. One place to look for them is ambulance up-fitters who swap an old medic body onto a new chassis. The old one will almost always need new brakes, but motors and trans should be good to go. As a bonus most are low profile and turn really sharp so they fit into most areas. They are a good step between a 1-ton with a box and a class 7 truck with say a 20 yard box on it.



Mr. HE


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## fields_mj (Jan 23, 2011)

SawTroll said:


> Diesel pollutes the area around you a lot more than gas do, but some say it is better in the global perspective.......


 
BS!!!! Go back to saws where you know something. 

There's no possible way that a properly tuned and timed diesel will pollute more than a gas engine in the same vehicle under the same conditions. The diesel will always get AT LEAST 15% better mileage (a lot more when towing), and that will equate to much less pollution. Mel Agnem managed to squeeze a 7.3 IDI into a F150 and with 3.08 gears he gets 30 mpg on a good day. My 93 4x4 ext cab with 3.55 gears gets 18 mpg and needs new injectors, and an IP pump. With that replaced and the timing set correctly I expect to get 20. That's on a truck that's old enough to drive itself. Add a turbo, and 22 is possible. Name me just ONE 3/4 ton 4x4 with a gas engine that can claim to get 18 mpg. A friend of mine has an early 2000s VW Jetta TDI with 250K miles on it. Still gets 52 miles per gallon. I don't even know of a hybrid that does that. If people really cared about pollution, they would pass laws that require summer diesel to have at least 5% bio which would cut down the particulate emissions drastically. 

Now add in the fact that a well maintained diesel, even with a very hard life, will get 500K miles, and the amount of pollution that is saved from not having to build as many engines and it's a wonder that gas engines are still produced period.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 23, 2011)

fields_mj said:


> bs!!!! Go back to saws where you know something.
> 
> There's no possible way that a properly tuned and timed diesel will pollute more than a gas engine in the same vehicle under the same conditions. The diesel will always get at least 15% better mileage (a lot more when towing), and that will equate to much less pollution. Mel agnem managed to squeeze a 7.3 idi into a f150 and with 3.08 gears he gets 30 mpg on a good day. My 93 4x4 ext cab with 3.55 gears gets 18 mpg and needs new injectors, and an ip pump. With that replaced and the timing set correctly i expect to get 20. That's on a truck that's old enough to drive itself. Add a turbo, and 22 is possible. Name me just one 3/4 ton 4x4 with a gas engine that can claim to get 18 mpg. A friend of mine has an early 2000s vw jetta tdi with 250k miles on it. Still gets 52 miles per gallon. I don't even know of a hybrid that does that. If people really cared about pollution, they would pass laws that require summer diesel to have at least 5% bio which would cut down the particulate emissions drastically.
> 
> Now add in the fact that a well maintained diesel, even with a very hard life, will get 500k miles, and the amount of pollution that is saved from not having to build as many engines and it's a wonder that gas engines are still produced period.



great post!!!


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