# Choker Cable, or Chain and Choker Hook,,,,, OR,,,,, Bull Dogs!!?? (not the Purina kind!)



## SweetMK (Feb 11, 2022)

I borrowed a cant hook off of a neighbor,, so I could copy it,, that went well.
BUT~~!!
in his shed hanging up was his "Log Dogs",, or Bull Dogs,, or, I believe he said they also were called "Snake Hooks".
He told me that they drove those hooks in a log, and pulled the log out with horses.







Supposedly, the hook would never fall out. the geometry of the hook shape made the hook penetrate more, if the pull was harder.
The hooks were perfect, until the last time they were lent out, the borrower kept jerking them with his 3/4 ton truck,,
hence, the bolts that replaced the broken links.
I said, let me borrow those also,,

When I bent the hook for my cant, I noticed the shape was very similar to the logging hooks,,






*So, is a "drive-in hook" Bull Dog ever used now,, or is it totally obsolete??*


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## northmanlogging (Feb 11, 2022)

its rare to see anyone using mechanical grapples, or dogs like that in actual industry, you will see the canadian loggers using a similar type of grapple for yarding logs, but its much much bigger and cable activated. 
You might find some ole horse logger still using them, but they are rare enough as is. 

Was a time when the drive in hooks like that were common place for loading logs around here, as the scissor type just didn't open big enough, and yes they by design dig deeper, but doesn't mean the wood/bark won't give out anyway, so don't trust them even on a good day. 

As for the thread title, most folks around here use cable chokers to skid and hydrualic grapples to load, back east folks seem to think that chain type chokers are better... they are like many things when it comes to logging, misinformed i.e. wrong and too stupid to question why. (I said what I said) chains need something to shove them through, are ******* heavy and fail constantly, wire chokers you can force under, will let you know when they are about to fail, and are much much lighter and way cheaper.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 11, 2022)

I am just a firewood hoarder but when I need a choker I use a wire rope choker....


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## catbuster (Feb 11, 2022)

_Chains are not to be yanked on. _

I do not grasp how hard it is for people to grasp that chain links are brittle and break. Chains work great for static loading. Yarding logs is not a static load. Neither is pulling slide rail.

Cables are ductile because their small fibers bend. It’s a good system. Cables are also kind of stiff so you can shove them through holes, and the cat eyes on log chokers are easy to hook up.

As far as tongs go, I’ve seen them in use with swing yarders in Alaska, and they’re apparently very common in British Columbia. However, hydraulic grapples are the standard for handling logs.


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## SweetMK (Feb 11, 2022)

Yes, earlier today, I was looking at wire chokers,, I all but ordered one,, waiting to hear the responses,,

I still think I have a use for the drive-in dogs,, I have a H U G E leftover pile of blocks and brush that was left from cutting my timber.
The pile is easily twice the size of a 2,000 square foot ranch style home,,

They asked me if I wanted it spread when they were here, I said no, I am hoping for it to decompose into nice earth,,
but, the nice firewood on top would be fun to retrieve,, so I might make the dogs, and try them.


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## Brufab (Feb 11, 2022)

I have used these with great success.


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## Huntaholic (Feb 11, 2022)

10 ft swedge chokers are what I use.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 11, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> 10 ft swedge chokers are what I use.


What do those look like.


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## ArtB (Feb 12, 2022)

photo of 3/4" wire rope choker I used until it broke pulling cherry stump, about 120,000 # (after 4 blocks) broke it, had no bad strands. 5/8" grade 70 chain did not break.


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## Huntaholic (Feb 12, 2022)

3000 FPS said:


> What do those look like.


I confess, Im running an OOOLLLLDDDDD desktop and a galaxy S4 phone so I don't know how to get pics on here.


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## SweetMK (Feb 12, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> I confess, Im running an OOOLLLLDDDDD desktop and a galaxy S4 phone so I don't know how to get pics on here.


Does it look like this??


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## northmanlogging (Feb 12, 2022)

ArtB said:


> photo of 3/4" wire rope choker I used until it broke pulling cherry stump, about 120,000 # (after 4 blocks) broke it, had no bad strands. 5/8" grade 70 chain did not break.


using a pipe choker, and cable clamps (around 2 to few btw) probably cut the cable more then it "broke" 

Just cause you use it wrong doesn't mean its a bad tool.


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## Bearcreek (Feb 12, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> *So, is a "drive-in hook" Bull Dog ever used now,, or is it totally obsolete??*


Yes, they are still used by some folks who log with horses. They're called "log grabs" or log dogs and are traditionally pounded in and pulled out with a "skip hammer". Here is a source for new ones. https://horseloggersupply.com/shop


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## Huntaholic (Feb 12, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Does it look like this??


Yes and no. The ones I use have the ball on both ends. They hook into choker slides on the end of my winch cable. That one is a regular choker, mine are slicker and stronger because the have been "swedged" down from a bigger size cable. I typically run a 9/16" swedge which is 5/8" that has been pressed down to a smaller diameter.


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## TRTermite (Feb 12, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> I confess, Im running an OOOLLLLDDDDD desktop and a galaxy S4 phone so I don't know how to get pics on here.


 Don't feel bad.
My little brother set me up with a new computer hitched to a new big screen TV and a 7.5(?) apple phone and a lot of advice. I still haven't figgered out how to post pictures and cut and paste and you get the idea. I have managed self restraint to do physical harm to my electronic gadgetry (So FAR).


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## SweetMK (Feb 12, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Don't feel bad.
> My little brother set me up with a new computer hitched to a new big screen TV and a 7.5(?) apple phone and a lot of advice
> *. I have managed self restraint to do physical harm to my electronic gadgetry (So FAR).*



My son-in-law is a computer guru for a large company,, and lives 1/4 mile away,,
His father taught him much about computers,, he lives a mile further down the road.

*NEITHER one of them has a pickup truck,,, I have two 3/4 ton pickups,,
I NEVER have to ask twice* to get my computer stuff corrected or updated,,

_*Amazing,, isn't it!!?? *_


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## northmanlogging (Feb 12, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Does it look like this??



Pictured would be called a "Cat Eye Choker", to be used with a hook on the winch line or shackled together, never run cable to cable, it will cut... much like rope on rope is a bad idea

the alternative would be ferrule ends, or bullet ends (same thing different colloquialisms)

You will notice that the "bell" has a key hole slot for the ferrule to slip into, making a smooth transition without binding or sharp edges, for logging this is the way to go. the other picture showing a pipe choker, uses either a loop, or a double eyed sling, with the hook attaching in the middle or on one eye or the other, they are not meant to carry the full rating of the cable because they will cut the cable if overloaded. Hence use the right tool for the job. That said more often then not "cat eye" chokers will fail at the eye, its the bend point and point of most friction, where as bullet/ferrule ended chokers will eventually fail at one ferrule or the other, usually at the side closest to the slider on the main line. 

Also I might add, that a pipe choker is a step backwards in ease of use compared to even a chain, as now you have to stuff the eye end under the log, or try to get a bight of cable through, not exactly the funnest thing to do while crotch deep in brush.


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## catbuster (Feb 12, 2022)

What people will call chokers in every other industry other than logging, is not a good choice to choke logs. As Matt stated above, cable on cable will damage the strands and it will fail as they slide past one another. The bell end and the ferrule on a cat eye choker prevents the cable-on-cable prevents this slip.

Put too much power behind a cable and it will break, regardless. A John Deere 470G will snap a 1/2” standard choker sling like it’s not even there. Ask me how I know.

Pipe and cat-eye chokers, and then pipe chokers with hard eyes/ferrules put in the loop, I know it’s confusing.

But as far as logging goes, most people will refer to a cat eye choker when they use the word choker. In just about every other heavy industry, people will refer to the double eyed choker.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 12, 2022)

Well in the logging industry I can see where these different types of chokers can make a big difference but for myself and other firewood people just a simple steel cable with a loop on the end works fine.


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## catbuster (Feb 12, 2022)

I disagree-you can have a cat eye choker that will hook most logs for $50. That’s cheaper than of a lot of broken cable or broken chains, and it’s way easier to live with.

If having the right tool for the job is inexpensive and likely more cost effective over the long run, why not use the right tool? I mean, not knowing the right tool exists is one thing. But knowing better, them being inexpensive and not using one is asinine. Regardless of who you are.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 12, 2022)

3000 FPS said:


> Well in the logging industry I can see where these different types of chokers can make a big difference but for myself and other firewood people just a simple steel cable with a loop on the end works fine.


they exist for a reason, sure an eye to eye choker works, but its a pain in the ass to use and will fail sooner then later. Or you could pony up the rather small sum to have the right tools for the job, save yourself some ass ache and be a might bit safer at the same time.


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## Oletrapper (Feb 13, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> Yes, they are still used by some folks who log with horses. They're called "log grabs" or log dogs and are traditionally pounded in and pulled out with a "skip hammer". Here is a source for new ones. https://horseloggersupply.com/shop


I have a set but rarely use them since the invent of the farm tractor and chainsaw. lmao OT


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## Bearcreek (Feb 13, 2022)

Oletrapper said:


> I have a set but rarely use them since the invent of the farm tractor and chainsaw. lmao OT


The nice thing about them is that they don't require you to slide anything underneath the log or roll it over onto a choker. They also don't come loose and fall off if you back up like tongs often do.


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## SweetMK (Feb 13, 2022)

Well,, I am going to "try" to make a set of these log dogs,, 
I have been watching blacksmith videos FOREVER on YouTube,, I thought I was gonna use charcoal,, but, propane seems easier.
Recently, a couple videos showed the importance of aiming the flame at the part..
I wondered if positioning the part wasn't more important than insulating the forge? The only was to find out,, was to try.

I have had a TurboTorch for 30 years, a couple years ago, I got a "T-6" tip for the torch.
I got it out, and set up the torch outside,,







I simply used a leftover scrap of 4X4 inch square tube, with the torch aimed in it.
Two pieces of 1 inch diameter steel round bar were put in the tube, and the torch was aimed in it.






(The day before I took these pics, I had used this torch to bend the bars)
On my first try, I heated one bar at a time,, I had both bars, so I figured I would try heating both.

Well, in about 5 minutes, the steel bars were HOT!!






I was really surprised,, I had tried this before without the piece of square tube,,
after 30 minutes, without the square tube, the piece of bar was barely dull red. the tube helped heating a lot!!
The T-6 tip consumes about 2 pounds of fuel an hour,, so a standard barbeque tank will last ~10 hours.

Here is a pic of my "anvil",, a worn out front wheel off of a 953 CAT,, it does not move when you hit it.






My other "blacksmith" tools,, blacksmith gloves,, blacksmith tongs,, and blacksmith hammer.






After trying the first hammer,, not much was happening,, so I got out an 8# sledge,,
THAT 8# sledge was way too hard to swing one-handed,, then I remembered another hammer I had put a handle on.
The short handle helped,, even though the head must be pretty close to 8#...






After three heating and poundings of each pin I stopped to check my results,,
Mostly, I had lengthened the pins, rather than making them wider,,
I will have to study up on how to make the steel get wider, rather than longer,,,






I will try again, the next day it is not snowing,,,


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## woodfarmer (Feb 13, 2022)

I resemble that remark, I just broke a chain about an hour ago


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## Bearcreek (Feb 13, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Well,, I am going to "try" to make a set of these log dogs,,


You'll need to have these "lips" on the top of them (circled in green), otherwise it'll be a nightmare trying to get them pulled out once they're pounded in and pulled on.


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## SweetMK (Feb 13, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> You'll need to have these "lips" on the top of them (circled in green), otherwise it'll be a nightmare trying to get them pulled out once they're pounded in and pulled on.


I saw those,, I expect I will have to weld those on,,,


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## northmanlogging (Feb 13, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Well,, I am going to "try" to make a set of these log dogs,,
> I have been watching blacksmith videos FOREVER on YouTube,, I thought I was gonna use charcoal,, but, propane seems easier.
> Recently, a couple videos showed the importance of aiming the flame at the part..
> I wondered if positioning the part wasn't more important than insulating the forge? The only was to find out,, was to try.
> ...


So the "insulation" is partly to protect the structure of the forge, but it also helps with retaining heat and will allow you to get much much higher temps. 

Couple tips, if you plan on persuing anymore smithing work, get at least a flat anvil, and place it just below knuckle height while standing comfortably, your wrist and back will thank you. 
Stop wearing gloves at least on your hammer hand, you may get burned, (you will anyways) but you won't be working as hard to hang on to the hammer, and will have more accuracy, as well as more control of tongs/material etc. Besides if its so hot that you need gloves to hang on to it, they will only help for a minute or less, then they heat the gloves beyond use anyway. 
IF you're using high carbon steel, work it when its red, but don't heat until yellow unless you plan on welding it, it looses too much carbon at yellow, and will become brittle if worked cold, Don't quench it until you need it hardened, let it cool slowly under welding blankets or in dry sand if possible. 
As for hardening, most modern knife makers will insist on using oil... there is literally no need for this if you don't overheat before quenching, it needs to be cherry red, no more. if its so hard as to be brittle, then temper it as I strongly suggest doing for any sort of log dog/grapple as they get shock loaded more then anything. 

As for hammering tapers, work the piece on two sides so it gets thinner evenly, you flatten one side then attempt to do the other it will just taco, better to make a square taper, then round it later if desired. Start from the end and work your way up the material. Also better to create the taper while the material is straight and easy to turn, then put the bend in afterwards, also makes placing the bend accurately easier.


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## SweetMK (Feb 13, 2022)

Now that you mention it,, I do have a flat item,, and it probably weighs 5X as much as the 953 wheel,,
It is the counterweight off of a John Deere tracked loader,, (the piece behind it is the bracket to mount the weight to the machines frame.)






It is probably ~3,000 pounds,, ?? THAT should not move if I hit it,,, 
I still have to figure out how to make the part get wider, rather than longer,,,,,,,,,,


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## Bill G (Feb 13, 2022)

It is interesting to see the comments about the different types of chokers. It does not matter of you use chain, cable,rope, or something else. They all have their place where they work best. They all can and will fail. They all can and will cause injury and damage when they fail. It will not be everytime they fail but it will happen eventually. Chains will break and can send pieces flying. Just ask any farmer if he has had one come.through the cab window. Cables will break and whip. It is funny how many folks think rope is safe. Thankfully to date the worst injury I have personally seen is a broken leg and that was from a broken rope. Now that was a barge rope on a 15 barge tow 30 years ago but it was bad. Everyone had their preference. If they all did not work then no company would make them.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 13, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Now that you mention it,, I do have a flat item,, and it probably weighs 5X as much as the 953 wheel,,
> It is the counterweight off of a John Deere tracked loader,, (the piece behind it is the bracket to mount the weight to the machines frame.)
> 
> 
> ...


to make stuff wider, you need to use the cross pien, or preferably but much hard to find a straight pien hammer, the "black smith" hammer with the tapered side, use that to strike with the wedge shape forcing material in the direction you want the work piece to grow, it can be done with a cross pien, but its a PITA, if you had a fuller set its even easier, but not having a proper anvil... I'm guessing you don't have a fuller set either (hell I don't and I have several anvils lol) You can also upset the material by hammering on the end of it... but its not easy, and its even more work then it looks. 

I suggest getting a hand full of silly putty or modeling clay and "practice" forming it into shapes using your fangers as "hammers" or even going so far as to use something that resembles a small hammer to shape it, it will give you a fairly solid idea of how the metal moves under impact, in reality they react very similarly, though the steel will take much more effort to move. 


Bill G said:


> It is interesting to see the comments about the different types of chokers. It does not matter of you use chain, cable,rope, or something else. They all have their place where they work best. They all can and will fail. They all can and will cause injury and damage when they fail. It will not be everytime they fail but it will happen eventually. Chains will break and can send pieces flying. Just ask any farmer if he has had one come.through the cab window. Cables will break and whip. It is funny how many folks think rope is safe. Thankfully to date the worst injury I have personally seen is a broken leg and that was from a broken rope. Now that was a barge rope on a 15 barge tow 30 years ago but it was bad. Everyone had their preference. If they all did not work then no company would make them.


you are right everything fails, also a pretty major reason why a person should use the proper and best tool for the job. log chokers are damned good tools, and will work far better then any of the "tried and true" half measures such as tow chains, eye to eye chokers, single eye with a shackle/hook/pipe choker, I guarantee all of them will fail long before a log choker doing the same job. 
As for cables whipping about, its largely old wifes tails, yes there is stored energy in cable, but not nearly as much in say the tires supporting said cable, the giant tree acting as a bow stave etc, where as rope that so many in the industry claim as being safer has a much higher elasticity compared to cable and therefore much much more stored energy. Feel free to look it up for yourself, you might be surprised.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 13, 2022)

wait... a cross pien does work better for widening material... 

My apologies, sometimes hard to see this stuff in muh head, straigh pien for making thangs longer... like knives out of stupid thick metal.


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## TRTermite (Feb 14, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> to make stuff wider, you need to use the cross pien, or preferably but much hard to find a straight pien hammer, the "black smith" hammer with the tapered side, use that to strike with the wedge shape forcing material in the direction you want the work piece to grow, it can be done with a cross pien, but its a PITA, if you had a fuller set its even easier, but not having a proper anvil... I'm guessing you don't have a fuller set either (hell I don't and I have several anvils lol) You can also upset the material by hammering on the end of it... but its not easy, and its even more work then it looks.
> 
> I suggest getting a hand full of silly putty or modeling clay and "practice" forming it into shapes using your fangers as "hammers" or even going so far as to use something that resembles a small hammer to shape it, it will give you a fairly solid idea of how the metal moves under impact, in reality they react very similarly, though the steel will take much more effort to move.
> 
> ...





northmanlogging said:


> wait... a cross pien does work better for widening material...
> 
> My apologies, sometimes hard to see this stuff in muh head, straigh pien for making thangs longer... like knives out of stupid thick metal.


One might be surprised how long it sometimes takes for a hammer blow to soak in to a chunk of steel . it is not entirely immediate. (circle saw blades and tension)


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## SweetMK (Feb 14, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> One might be surprised how long it sometimes takes for a hammer blow to soak in to a chunk of steel . it is not entirely immediate. (circle saw blades and tension)


Probably,, about as long as new concepts take to soak into my thoughts,, LOL!!  

I am a torch, saw, welder kind of guy,,
this hammerin' steel is sort of new to me,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Bearcreek (Feb 14, 2022)

Bill G said:


> If they all did not work then no company would make them.


There are two reasons that some things are made besides that they work well for their intended job. Those two things are cost and institutional inbreeding. Some things are made and sold because they're cheap to make and cheap to buy, not because they work particularly well. There are also things that are made and sold because many folks within certain industries or regions have not had enough exposure to ideas and techniques outside of that industry or region.


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## rwoods (Feb 14, 2022)

@SweetMK, assuming you aren’t going to be using heavy equipment then buy a 8’ long 1/2” choker with 3 links of 3/8” chain on the end instead of a loop. It will make you life easier if you need to extend your reach to the stem and/or if you don’t have a suitable rounded attachment point for a looped end choker. $50 well spent. You won’t break the 3 link chain with a pickup truck or compact tractor. 

Ron


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## SweetMK (Feb 14, 2022)

rwoods,, actually, I ordered one of those this weekend,, 1/2",, 8 or 9 feet long,, kinda like this,,


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## rwoods (Feb 14, 2022)

That’s it. Don’t forget to wear gloves as after a few uses it will develop broken strands that will get you.

Ron


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## catbuster (Feb 14, 2022)

Bill G said:


> It is interesting to see the comments about the different types of chokers. It does not matter of you use chain, cable,rope, or something else. They all have their place where they work best. They all can and will fail. They all can and will cause injury and damage when they fail. It will not be everytime they fail but it will happen eventually. Chains will break and can send pieces flying. Just ask any farmer if he has had one come.through the cab window. Cables will break and whip. It is funny how many folks think rope is safe. Thankfully to date the worst injury I have personally seen is a broken leg and that was from a broken rope. Now that was a barge rope on a 15 barge tow 30 years ago but it was bad. Everyone had their preference. If they all did not work then no company would make them.



So… The crux of your argument is that while different tools are meant for different uses, it doesn’t matter what is used for what purpose because they all fail?

Why not make an effort to limit the probability of failure? That’s the entire purpose of having these different tools.

@SweetMK-Congratulations on getting a tool that should make like a lot easier. Enjoy it, and use it for its intended purpose.


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## SweetMK (Feb 14, 2022)

As tractors got bigger on the farm,, we ended up lengthening a couple chains, to the point that they would no longer bend,,
At that point, my BIL went to Richmond VA (in 1973) and bought two chains that are 25 feet long, and cost $100 each.

They still use the two chains, and they are as good as the day they were purchased..
I checked the inflation, from then, to now,, those chains cost $633 each, in todays dollars.

I guess that is why they still survive,, even though the horsepower has grown on the farm, considerably.


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## Bearcreek (Feb 14, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> As tractors got bigger on the farm,, we ended up lengthening a couple chains, to the point that they would no longer bend,,
> At that point, my BIL went to Richmond VA (in 1973) and bought two chains that are 25 feet long, and cost $100 each.
> 
> They still use the two chains, and they are as good as the day they were purchased..
> ...


Must be a hell of a chain. If 25 ft. costs $633 you'd have to be looking at 3/4", which, if it's grade 100 is rated at 35,000+ lbs and weighs over 150 lbs for 25 ft. of it.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 14, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> As tractors got bigger on the farm,, we ended up lengthening a couple chains, to the point that they would no longer bend,,
> At that point, my BIL went to Richmond VA (in 1973) and bought two chains that are 25 feet long, and cost $100 each.
> 
> They still use the two chains, and they are as good as the day they were purchased..
> ...


one of the semi retired self loader jockeys I know swears by a set of 5/16 chains he picked up sometime in the 70's, Seen him do some really dumb S with them chains and they've never even so much as got a shinny spot, stuff that the normal grd70 stuff we have now days would just stand straight up or fail.


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## calamari (Feb 14, 2022)

This will get a lot of negative replies but I've been using apiece of telephone pole guy wire cable as a choker for a few years. It's galvanized, has spliced eyes on both ends with thimbles in the eyes and seems to be plenty strong. I don't have a commercial wood business so it's just for me and a few friends I help. The biggest stick I've pulled with that choker and my 4WD truck was about a 24" diameter piece of Oak maybe 15' long. It handled that OK but just in case it went west I put a moving van pad over the cable to slow it down if it breaks.
The good part about it is it's stiff as a...well it's stiff. It makes it easy to push under logs however the bad part about it is also that it is stiff. Makes it hard to coil up in a manageable circle and it takes a set once you use it one time. Since it's only used for that purpose that's not really a problem. It's 15' long and free so I've also got that going for me.
I like chain as a choker if somebody else has to dig the hole under the log so I can push it through. A hydraulic floor jack is one of my most used tools when I'm messing with heavy oak. I have to drag heavy oak sometimes on asphalt up to where I can buck it up out of the traffic. To keep from wearing my chain out grinding it on the road bed I cut up some heavy walled 2" black pipe into 2" collars and have strung them on the chain making a wear surface to save the chain. It's surprising how much I've worn off those collars dragging the wood maybe 75 feet on the road. The collars only touch the road when I first start and at odd times during the pull because I hook up to the log as closely as I can. That way when I start to pull the angle lifts the front of the log and the chain doesn't touch anything.


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## Bearcreek (Feb 14, 2022)

calamari said:


> This will get a lot of negative replies but I've been using apiece of telephone pole guy wire cable as a choker for a few years.


You'll get negative replies because you can get the right tool for the job for about $40 and it's far less likely to break and leave you stranded without a choker or injure or kill you or somebody else. All while being way nicer to use.


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## calamari (Feb 14, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> You'll get negative replies because you can get the right tool for the job for about $40 and it's far less likely to break and leave you stranded without a choker or injure or kill you or somebody else. All while being way nicer to use.


Perhaps valid concersn but as I mentioned it was free, laying in my yard after a pole replacement and has pulled enough wood to make me feel comfortable with working within its limits. Not comfortable, don't do it.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 14, 2022)

calamari said:


> This will get a lot of negative replies but I've been using apiece of telephone pole guy wire cable as a choker for a few years. It's galvanized, has spliced eyes on both ends with thimbles in the eyes and seems to be plenty strong. I don't have a commercial wood business so it's just for me and a few friends I help. The biggest stick I've pulled with that choker and my 4WD truck was about a 24" diameter piece of Oak maybe 15' long. It handled that OK but just in case it went west I put a moving van pad over the cable to slow it down if it breaks.
> The good part about it is it's stiff as a...well it's stiff. It makes it easy to push under logs however the bad part about it is also that it is stiff. Makes it hard to coil up in a manageable circle and it takes a set once you use it one time. Since it's only used for that purpose that's not really a problem. It's 15' long and free so I've also got that going for me.
> I like chain as a choker if somebody else has to dig the hole under the log so I can push it through. A hydraulic floor jack is one of my most used tools when I'm messing with heavy oak. I have to drag heavy oak sometimes on asphalt up to where I can buck it up out of the traffic. To keep from wearing my chain out grinding it on the road bed I cut up some heavy walled 2" black pipe into 2" collars and have strung them on the chain making a wear surface to save the chain. It's surprising how much I've worn off those collars dragging the wood maybe 75 feet on the road. The collars only touch the road when I first start and at odd times during the pull because I hook up to the log as closely as I can. That way when I start to pull the angle lifts the front of the log and the chain doesn't touch anything.


see now... free trumps the right tool everyday, though I myself would pass on that particular cable as its unweildy as frig... but if its what you got...


Bearcreek said:


> You'll get negative replies because you can get the right tool for the job for about $40 and it's far less likely to break and leave you stranded without a choker or injure or kill you or somebody else. All while being way nicer to use.


I feel attacked...


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## calamari (Feb 14, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> see now... free trumps the right tool everyday, though I myself would pass on that particular cable as its unweildy as frig... but if its what you got...
> 
> I feel attacked...


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## rwoods (Feb 14, 2022)

Bigger is better or so they say. I picked up this log chain a few years ago at an "antique" store for $75. I don't have anything big enough to break it, but I only use it as a counter weight for the compact tractor in the picture. It has a nice pear loop on the far end. I use the 5/16" USA made G70 chain next to it quite often.



Ron


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## CDElliott (Feb 14, 2022)

calamari said:


> This will get a lot of negative replies but I've been using apiece of telephone pole guy wire cable as a choker for a few years. It's galvanized, has spliced eyes on both ends with thimbles in the eyes and seems to be plenty strong. I don't have a commercial wood business so it's just for me and a few friends I help. The biggest stick I've pulled with that choker and my 4WD truck was about a 24" diameter piece of Oak maybe 15' long. It handled that OK but just in case it went west I put a moving van pad over the cable to slow it down if it breaks.
> The good part about it is it's stiff as a...well it's stiff. It makes it easy to push under logs however the bad part about it is also that it is stiff. Makes it hard to coil up in a manageable circle and it takes a set once you use it one time. Since it's only used for that purpose that's not really a problem. It's 15' long and free so I've also got that going for me.
> I like chain as a choker if somebody else has to dig the hole under the log so I can push it through. A hydraulic floor jack is one of my most used tools when I'm messing with heavy oak. I have to drag heavy oak sometimes on asphalt up to where I can buck it up out of the traffic. To keep from wearing my chain out grinding it on the road bed I cut up some heavy walled 2" black pipe into 2" collars and have strung them on the chain making a wear surface to save the chain. It's surprising how much I've worn off those collars dragging the wood maybe 75 feet on the road. The collars only touch the road when I first start and at odd times during the pull because I hook up to the log as closely as I can. That way when I start to pull the angle lifts the front of the log and the chain doesn't touch anything.


After coiling up the choker cable into a circle as best as I can, I use a large nylon spring clamp from Harbor Freight to help hold it together as a coil. Works for me.


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## calamari (Feb 14, 2022)

CDElliott said:


> After coiling up the choker cable into a circle as best as I can, I use a large nylon spring clamp from Harbor Freight to help hold it together as a coil. Works for me.View attachment 965033
> View attachment 965033


I use the same clamps on my boats covers but unfortunately even the biggest one won't work. I have to use a piece of nylon heavy cord in a couple places around the 3' diameter coil that is the tightest I can roll it. 
I use chain, that guy wire, a couple different lengths of wire cable that are more flexible and a number of ropes. I don't feel like I'm in too much danger but then that's what the former lion tamer said just before he put his head in the lion's mouth.


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## SweetMK (Feb 14, 2022)

Bearcreek said:


> Must be a hell of a chain. If 25 ft. costs $633 you'd have to be looking at 3/4", which, if it's grade 100 is rated at 35,000+ lbs and weighs over 150 lbs for 25 ft. of it.


Are you comparing today's Chinese import prices with 1973 chain that was probably made near Quincy Massachusetts by union workers??

That same $100 would buy a new 10 gauge double barrel shotgun it Richmond VA,, at a store called Best Products, in 1973.
My nephew bought that gun, and deer hunted with it for a half dozen years,, until he realized he did not need to be carrying so much weight..


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## CDElliott (Feb 15, 2022)

calamari said:


> I use the same clamps on my boats covers but unfortunately even the biggest one won't work. I have to use a piece of nylon heavy cord in a couple places around the 3' diameter coil that is the tightest I can roll it.
> I use chain, that guy wire, a couple different lengths of wire cable that are more flexible and a number of ropes. I don't feel like I'm in too much danger but then that's what the former lion tamer said just before he put his head in the lion's mouth.


My choker cable must be a lot smaller thickness. I got it off eBay to pull branches and trees behind my ATV. I can coil mine up to less than a foot diameter.

I slip the small ring under the log and through the larger ring and place the smaller ring over the 2" ball hitch and drag to the burn pile. For the smaller stuff, I lay the cable on the ground and place the ends of multiple brances over the cable and then make the loop. When done I place the nylon clamp where the cables come together to form the circle.

The guy wires that I've seen do seem to be pretty stiff. Good luck!


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## calamari (Feb 15, 2022)

CDElliott said:


> My choker cable must be a lot smaller thickness. I got it off eBay to pull branches and trees behind my ATV. I can coil mine up to less than a foot diameter.
> 
> I slip the small ring under the log and through the larger ring and place the smaller ring over the 2" ball hitch and drag to the burn pile. For the smaller stuff, I lay the cable on the ground and place the ends of multiple brances over the cable and then make the loop. When done I place the nylon clamp where the cables come together to form the circle.
> 
> ...


Those are perfect for ATV use and for small stuff. I frequently pull stuff that weighs6-8 hundred pounds and more. One of the reasons i can do it is because I'm dragging them on a paved road which is low friction. I can pull big stuff in the dirt if I pay attention to rigging it so that the front edge of the log doesn't dig in. It's surprising how much you can pull with a 1/2 ton 4wd pickup with wider but still stock tires. I've had as much as 23 big green wood oak rounds in the back that weighed a pretty consistent 200# apiece and drove it 40 miles to my house. Not fast and not often but the actual capacity for short term use is higher than the manufacturers claim... if you're good.


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## Bill G (Feb 15, 2022)

catbuster said:


> So… The crux of your argument is that while different tools are meant for different uses, it doesn’t matter what is used for what purpose because they all fail?
> 
> 
> Bill G said:
> ...


Apparently you failed to read what I wrote


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## Bearcreek (Feb 15, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Are you comparing today's Chinese import prices with 1973 chain that was probably made near Quincy Massachusetts by union workers??


No. I'm saying that if a person is going to spend $633, of today's dollars, on 25 feet of chain, it pretty much has to be 3/4" grade 100 (made in the USA too, FWIW). Nothing smaller costs anywhere near that much, that I've been able to find. See for yourself. https://www.westechrigging.com/chain-034-g100-domestic.html


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## Bearcreek (Feb 15, 2022)

calamari said:


> Perhaps valid concersn but as I mentioned it was free, laying in my yard after a pole replacement and has pulled enough wood to make me feel comfortable with working within its limits. Not comfortable, don't do it.


Oh, they're definitely valid concerns. I worked with this stuff for a couple decades, enough time to know that using what you describe because it's "free", when the right tool costs less than a two person meal at a sit down restaurant, just isn't worth it, at all.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 16, 2022)

I have one 50’ choker cable I pull behind my loader. Only one end has an eye, the other end has the quick connect (whatever it’s called). The tow pin is so heavy that I don’t mess with it more than I have to, I have a short cable with shackle. I’m thinking of getting 2-3 more choker cables, maybe 12’ long. I would hook these to the end of the 50’ choker cable, so I can move more at once. I don’t have logging experience, I have 20 acres of timberland that I want to reduce fire hazard on. It has very many beetle killed trees on it. I also have a chain choker, no pictures.




The red piece is part of the quick connect.



So you put the shiny piece around the tree, and lock it into the red piece.



Top of the tow pin.



And I have this (the top one) for doing perpendicular pulls out to a road, with a length of cable. I don’t have a winch. I have looked into putting a winch on the back of the loader, not sure I’ll do it. The lower snatch block is the size/type used on Jeeps.


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## ericm979 (Feb 16, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> rwoods,, actually, I ordered one of those this weekend,, 1/2",, 8 or 9 feet long,, kinda like this,,


I wish they'd spend an extra $.50 and put a ferule in the eyes of those. The first hard pull is going to kink the eye.

I like cable chokers. They're light, easy to push under a log, and grip tight. I have one with a plain eye (no chain) that I put a ferule in after kinking the eye. I used it with chains and cables to pull out logs with the tractor. When I got a forestry winch with a chain slot on the end of the cable I realized I needed either cable chokers with chain like in the pic, or chain chokers. The winch has storage for chain chokers so that's what I got. Grade 100 was only $5 more than the heavier grade 70 chain. I made some extensions out of small rod to let me poke them under logs. I think I like cables better except for the storage issue.


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## SweetMK (Feb 16, 2022)

LOOKY at what came in the mail today,, my spankin' new cable!!,,






I was taking a pic of my Plumb Champion axes,, and the mail lady drove up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 16, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> LOOKY at what came in the mail today,, my spankin' new cable!!,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who did you order from?


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## SweetMK (Feb 16, 2022)

mountainguyed67 said:


> Who did you order from?



I ordered it off this page,,









Golden Bell™ J1 Logging Chokers


Your source for forestry tools and supplies, arborist gear, kiln drying services, and local hardwood lumber sales.




northernwoodsmen.com





I liked that they were made in New Hampshire.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 16, 2022)

Thanks. 

I just ordered three of this type, I have nowhere to hook a chain.


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## Swanman (Feb 16, 2022)

mountainguyed67 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I just ordered three of this type, I have nowhere to hook a chain.
> 
> View attachment 965531


You will like it! I have mine made up with a choker bell in the eye so that I can hook them end to end. I just cannot pull the bell through a snatch block.


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 16, 2022)

I went with 14’ length. Some of our trees are over 3 feet across, so that’s 9’ just getting around the tree.


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## Trailsawyer (Feb 16, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> I was taking a pic of my Plumb Champion axes,, and the mail lady drove up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


NICE AXES!!!


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## mountainguyed67 (Feb 23, 2022)

Swanman said:


> You will like it!



They arrived today, I got three so I can pull more at once.


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## Swanman (Feb 23, 2022)

mountainguyed67 said:


> They arrived today, I got three so I can pull more at once.
> 
> View attachment 967780


Very nice. You will not want to go back to using anything lesser. They are so easy to hook and unhook. Congrats!


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## beetree (Feb 24, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Yes, earlier today, I was looking at wire chokers,, I all but ordered one,, waiting to hear the responses,,
> 
> I still think I have a use for the drive-in dogs,, I have a H U G E leftover pile of blocks and brush that was left from cutting my timber.
> The pile is easily twice the size of a 2,000 square foot ranch style home,,
> ...


have some fun with the old school iron. If there are any local wood lathe turners they would love to pick thru pile of cured wood chunks especially if you could name type of wood. May be some nice bowls in it for you,


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