# Stone Behind Wood Stove Project - Question



## Cambium (Aug 23, 2012)

I'll be using River Rock but I have a dillema. I dont want to raise the floor up, I'm just going to tile the whole foyer. 

My dillema is, should I bring the stones all the way down or keep it a couple inches higher as shown on the right side?

If I do all the way down then I have to recut the spacers shorter but it does give a finished look. 

If I can keep it a bit higher then we see the baseboard moulding. It is easier to clean and easier to lift the tiles to replace in future. Less work if I can keep it higher. 

What would you guys do? Go all the way down or keep it a bit higher?


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## Mac88 (Aug 23, 2012)

1 vote for "higher".


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## Cambium (Aug 23, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> 1 vote for "higher".



The other thing I thought about, wouldn't having it to the ground help support the weight of the stone on the durock?


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## Cambium (Aug 23, 2012)

Del_ said:


> You need to look into the properties of the air gap behind the stone to combustibles, etc. Just installing stone over combustible materials is a no no.



Cement is not combustible. The stones will be set on the durock board.


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## wagz (Aug 23, 2012)

i wouldn't let 'less work' be your guiding factor during a project like this. i'd suggest 'nicest finished project' as your benchmark and do whatever you think will give you that...


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## Cambium (Aug 23, 2012)

Del_ said:


> How hot will the durarock board get?
> 
> 
> Non combustibles that conduct heat to combustibles can create a hazard. If I'm not mistaken air gaps are required by code.
> ...



Ahh, ok. Makes sense. Thanks. So are you saying the strips of wood are bad or the amount of gap I have there?

The stove has a rear heat sheild. The left rear corner would be 6" away from the stone. The right rear corner about 8"


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## Cambium (Aug 23, 2012)

Also, just thinking outloud, the air temp in the room and around the stove doesnt go beyond 80 degrees at most, so to get sheetrock and plywood to burn or heat up I assume it has to get over 120 degrees at least. Otherwise attics and walls would burn all the time in the summer. I used this stove without any stone or protection for years. The walls were "warm" to the touch. Never got hot at all. So with added protection I dont see an issue. But will monitor of course.

Back to my question for everyone... Would you install the stone higher or to the floor?


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## cnice_37 (Aug 23, 2012)

I'd cut the baseboard trim and go to the floor.

I'm thinking the river rock will extend a decent amount past where the existing trim is, and might look goofy at the bottom.

Post some pics during the process. I'd love to have a freestanding stove, and one day, my plan is to make my existing fireplace an "alcove" to stick one in there. Haven't done any more than think about that, I'm sure someone in Mass is going to complain about that. But river rock would sure look nice in that picture in my head.


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## Cambium (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah, I guess I'll keep the thread updated with this project. 

I decided to unscrew the plywood spacers I have because its not the right "spacing".. and I'm going to purchase these concrete spacers.


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## cmsmoke (Aug 23, 2012)

If you are putting the stove closer to the wall than the manufacture has listed, you should look into the subject further. If you are just putting it up for looks or thermal mass...Read no further.
The cement spacers are a good start. but I'm not so sure about the durarock and the thickness of the river rock. There is a minmum thickness for a masonary wall that is used as a heat sheild. You will also need to leave a space at the bottom of the wall for the air to circulate in order for the heat sheild to work. 
There are alot of sources for the information. I am only touching on a few of the basics and don't claim to be an expert. You can decide how far you need to go with this.
I also burned for years without a problem, but that doesn't make it right in the eyes of the fire marshall and insurance co.. I was closer than the required distances, so I put up sheet metal and used ceramic spacers as per code. I knew my walls didn't come close to getting hot enough to burn, but it is amazing how well a properly installed heat sheild works. There is enough that can inadvertantly go wrong. Why not take care of it while you are in the early stages of the wall construction?
Just my opinion.


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## ponyexpress976 (Aug 23, 2012)

Just another thought on safety...if you have a wife/girlfriend, why are you asking us? If she's not happy, you sir, will be miserable.

I say get rid of the trim and go to the floor.


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## certified106 (Aug 23, 2012)

I would definitely get rid of the trim and take it to the floor.


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## Highbeam (Aug 23, 2012)

To the floor. You are trying to make a fake stone wall and real stone walls never floated above the trim. If done properly, visitors won't know if the stone wall goes below the floor to the earth. The one thing you will have to be clever about is the vent slots on the top and bottom that allow air into and out of the air gap behind the shield. 

The plywood strips were no good but strips of durock are acceptable. The air gap has to be a certain width as well but that is normally done by stacking layers of strips of durock.

Note that your shield with durock and real rock will be really heavy. You want this thing resting on solid flooring as it will not just hang on the wall like a picture.


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## Henry and Wanda (Aug 25, 2012)

Hello,
If you let the wood baseboard on, then you have a combustible near the heat source.




Henry and Wanda


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## Cambium (Aug 25, 2012)

Henry and Wanda said:


> Hello,
> If you let the wood baseboard on, then you have a combustible near the heat source.


Thanks for the concern but the baseboard is well within the manufactuer limits to combustibles. With a bottom and rear heat sheild that part of the floor even near the stove never got warm to the touch. I've had nothing for 3 years and monitored but walls were never hot to touch. 



Highbeam said:


> If done properly, visitors won't know if the stone wall goes below the floor to the earth. .



Great point! Damn. I may need to lower it now. My concern was how to get the vents on the bottom but I may have thought of a way now. 

Will post pics later.


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## Cambium (Aug 25, 2012)

Didnt get a chance today (long day at work), but I'm still debating lowering it to floor. One reason, I might want to build the floor up 4 inches. Dillema Dillema.

Question... If there's gaps behind the wall that means any heating through the stone will have a gap to escape. Why do I need the floor gap??


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## Mac88 (Aug 25, 2012)

Cambium said:


> Didnt get a chance today (long day at work), but I'm still debating lowering it to floor. One reason, I might want to build the floor up 4 inches. Dillema Dillema.
> 
> Question... If there's gaps behind the wall that means any heating through the stone will have a gap to escape. Why do I need the floor gap??



You need air in at the bottom (cool) and air out at the top (hot). Doesn't have to be a gap, just some kind of opening to allow for convection. I think ours has 2 slots, around 1" by 4".


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## certified106 (Aug 25, 2012)

You need the gap for convection. Nice stove, is it an Englander 13NC?


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## blacklocst (Aug 25, 2012)

Also don't you need 18'' from the loading door to combustibles, if those are 12'' tiles you might want to extend it another coarse.


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## Cambium (Aug 25, 2012)

Yup. Floor is next project. 

Stove is a cheap Century bought for $350 on Craigslist brand new but I didn't like reloading every hour so I bought a bigger one. Hence this new project.  It did save me $1000 a year.


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## Cambium (Aug 25, 2012)

So looking around at some pictures I have an idea for the bottom(last pic) but a lot of pictures dont show the gap anywhere.  


Riverfront Vacation Cabin in Washington State at Stevens Pass

















Source: http://www.positivechimney.com/stovehearthgallery.aspx?source=stoves stone hearths


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## Fred Wright (Aug 25, 2012)

At risk of answering a question that wasn't asked... I'd like to add some thoughts if I may.

With this project you're talkin' a lot of weight. Please, ensure that the floor is capable of supporting the weight of the stove, Durock and river stone.


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## us2bnuts (Aug 26, 2012)

allright. As a contractor i'll add my $.02 worth. If you are using real rock you will need to go all the way to the floor for support. You also need to make sure the floor will carry the weight. I don't know what your walls are made of but you might consider removing the plaster or drywall almost to the area you want to rock. Install the durarock directly to the studs and cover with rock to about a inch past the edge of the durarock and onto the drywall. You should also do the floor first and then the wall. I don't know what building codes are in your area so BEFORE doing anything call your county building department and your insurance company to find out for sure just what is required in your area. You don't want to do all this work only to find out that your insurance company will no longer cover you. Good luck with your project. Take your time, do your homework, and enjoy doing work you can be proud of.:cool2:


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## certified106 (Aug 26, 2012)

As far as the different hearth pictures that you posted go, you have to remember that every stove and installation are different. My alderlea T6 has a 6" clearance to combustibles meaning I can have the back of my stove 6" off of drywall with no problem. I also have no r value for the bottom of the hearth and the only requirement is ember protection. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## Henry and Wanda (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey Cambium,
Ok, I've read your response to my statement, but don't quite understand your thinking. If the baseboard never got hot, then the walls shouldn't be getting hot either...right? So then if you're just putting the river rock on for apperance, why are you bothering with air gaps behind the wall, because the baseboard is just as close to the stove as the wall, actually probably 1/2" closer. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just want to understand. I've done this very same thing before (a couple of times) and there is a lot to think about....clearances, combusibles, insurance companies etc !!!! Good luck !!!!!




Henry and Wanda


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## farmboss45 (Aug 26, 2012)

Cambium said:


> Cement is not combustible. The stones will be set on the durock board.



The issue is the wall behind the durock, also, some codes require a metal barrier under the flooring of a stove. Just some things to think about. I would check on the building codes and insurance regulations and requirements on your policy.


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## kevin j (Aug 26, 2012)

Combustibles have a flash or burn point where they will burn, but there is another phenomenon where lower temperature exposure for a long time can cause the flash point of the wood or paper to lower. So having the inside of the wall 'hot' for a long time still could cause issues. 
Sounds like that is not your concern though. 

Here, there are also codes that require a metal 90 degree flashing behind the joint from the wall to floor, and from the front of the brick or rock floor to the tile. The idea is that with wall or floor motions, any grout or concrete joint can open up at corners, a small hot ember can drop down into the gap, and possibly cause a slow burn that ignites later.

Some of these issues sound awful picky, and 'we never needed that in the good old days', but when the consequences of a fire are pretty serious, I tend to be the conservative belt and suspenders type of guy when I put in our stove.


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## rmount (Aug 26, 2012)

i've lost what the focus of your project was. Are you just doing this for looks or as a heat shield to reduce your minimum clearance to combustibles?


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## stihly dan (Aug 27, 2012)

If the clearances are met on the stove. Rock is for looks. Why not have the stone an inch of the wall and a couple of the floor. (with some kind of stone support) and a ft or so from the ceiling. So when the stone warms up it can create convection heat to aid in heating more of the air. The stove will then be more efficient.


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## farmboss45 (Aug 27, 2012)

rmount said:


> i've lost what the focus of your project was. Are you just doing this for looks or as a heat shield to reduce your minimum clearance to combustibles?



I agree, the OP simply asked our opinion on what we thought looked better, at the floor or above the baseboard. I think at the floor, This eliminates the wood trim from the stove area, and provides a nice break-up in the room as stone is a great accent in any rustic setting. The other posts and suggestions are food for thought. Good Luck on your project!


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## Cambium (Aug 30, 2012)

farmboss45 said:


> I agree, the OP simply asked our opinion on what we thought looked better, at the floor or above the baseboard. I think at the floor, This eliminates the wood trim from the stove area, and provides a nice break-up in the room as stone is a great accent in any rustic setting. The other posts and suggestions are food for thought. Good Luck on your project!



Yes thank you. Although I do appreciate all feedback I also lost track of what I had asked. lol


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## Cambium (Aug 30, 2012)

Not only is there a gap behind the rock but even the studs themselves have gaps.  

This project was for looks because the distance to combustibles was fine as is. But I didnt want to take a chance of the stone heating up the sheetrock so I left the gap.


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## Cambium (Aug 30, 2012)

Now I have to figure out what to do with the unfinished sides and top. I assume I have to leave the top as is for the air? 

Any suggestions or constructive critism are welcome. What about a wood trim to finish the sides? 

(corner stones wouldnt have worked)


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## rmount (Aug 30, 2012)

Mill a mantle, this is one I made for a (bashful) friend. I think it was 2 1/2" maple.






View attachment 250664


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## Cambium (Aug 30, 2012)

rmount said:


> Mill a mantle, this is one I made for a (bashful) friend. I think it was 2 1/2" maple.



Nice. But doesnt it need that air gap on top? What did you use for the sides? 

P.S - Floor is next and it will be close to the bottom of the Stone with a small gap in between.


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## rmount (Aug 30, 2012)

Cambium said:


> Nice. But doesnt it need that air gap on top? What did you use for the sides?
> 
> P.S - Floor is next and it will be close to the bottom of the Stone with a small gap in between.



We didn't bother with an air gap as it was flush to the wall but I was thinking you could drill a series of hole to make the rear of the mantle into a grill.


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## mountainmandan (Aug 31, 2012)

I cut strips of durock to make my air space behind my heat shield, when screwed off it is solid. I also agree with others that you need to go to the floor and find out what is under the floor holding everything up. It will be extremely frustrating trying to get lick and stick to stay stuck to your cement board. I can imagine real river rock will just about drive you crazy. You are going to be messing up the trim anyway from working above it, so you already need to replace it. It is just 2 or three boards. Just save the boards and cut out a return to cover the old miter and you are set. Also if you are replacing the floor, or tiling, you need to see how many floors you have to begin with. That shoe molding tells me you already have 2 or more floors. or maybe not, you just have to see.

Dan


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## Cambium (Sep 6, 2012)

What is your "professional" opinion on the gap here at the floor? Is that enough?? I put 2 tiles there assuming the grout is 1/4" as well. There's about 1/2" of gap space at the bottom. 

Thoughts?


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