# Need a little help with log splitter....wont start.



## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

So i have been splitting a bunch of wood lately and i was about to start this morning.

I got the old girl running on the 3rd pull or so no problem. split a few pieces then the splitter died. i figured it was out of gas. i refilled and then i tried to restart. nothing. didnt want to pull too many times to flood the engine.
i proceeded to clean the plug, check for any leaks, checked oil and added a little.

i went back after that was all done and tried to pull start it, now the i can barely pull the rope start.

how bad is this?

MTD splitter, 26 ton, i think its a briggs and stratton


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## Patrick62 (Nov 1, 2015)

Okay, first I will figure that the handle is in neutral position, Engine was running correctly, so we are assuming that nothing is terribly wrong, yet.
You already cleaned the plug, and checked the oil. Good start. Now why in the world won't that thing whirl over and fire up?

Something is dragging, somewhere. Go back and look at that hydraulic lever one more time. Is it in the reverse position, and the ram is backed all the way up? Then the pump has to build the kick out pressure which is sort of hard to do by hand with a pull starter ( been there, tried that).

If that isn't it, then you gotta look further into the engine... The first thing I would do is pull the pump loose of it. Then we are down to the engine ONLY, and if it don't spin... then something is wrong in there!


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## Jakers (Nov 1, 2015)

A few things that come to mind are spark, dirty carb, or a sticking valve in the engine. First thing id check is the spark at the plug wire. you can simply unscrew the spark plug and lay it on something non-painted conductive metal with the wire attached to the terminal end and pull the engine over fast like you would if you were mad. watch the electrode end to make sure it has good bright blue/white spark. If no spark is present then you either have a grounded out wire or a bad coil. if you have good spark then continue to the compression test. it will most likely be a carb problem but spark and compression are the easiest to test

Stuck Valve/Compression Test:
I assume its pulling over fine? does it have the normal amount of resistance on the pull? if it pulls over easy then its most likely a stuck valve causing low compression. A compression test will confirm this. a simple press in or screw in compression tester will suffice. there isn't really a set number for small engines because most have a built in compression release so it really depends on how fast and hard you can pull. i would say if you have 50psi or higher we aren't looking at a compression issue. not sure how common stuck valves are on a B/S but the Honda GX390's i have run absolutely hated the ethanol in the gas and stuck valves all the time. This is also a horizontal shaft engine which i'm guessing your B/S is a vertical? If the valve is stuck then you will have to tear the engine down to access the valves and pushrods. first thing to do is to check the pushrods themselves to make sure they aren't bent. just a simple roll between the fingers in the engine should be fine. pull the engine over while watching the valves. most times they don't really stick open but they get gummy and move slow enough to not build compression. i usually spray them with wd-40 or jb-80 till they loosen up. when you get them loose to the point of running, put it back together, dump some seafoam or ATF in the oil and run it HARD for 5-10 min. then change the oil to a normal 5w-30 or whatever your conditions call for. 

Dirty Carburetor:
Second problem would be a dirty carburetor most likely caused by the ethanol in today's fuel. only solution to this is to pull it off and clean it thoroughly with carb and choke cleaner. pull the main jet in the bottom and make sure all holes are clean. a tiny torch tip cleaner can be used but be careful as to not remove metal in doing so. before reassembling the jet and metering parts be sure everything is clean and no tiny pieces of corrosion or "white rust" are left in there. the ports in the carb are tiny and easily plugged. reassemble all parts and install on engine. It should be noted that the tank should be emptied and flushed out to remove all old gas. refill with clean fuel and possibly some more good old mechanic in a can "Seafoam". Test out your work. if the engine runs sluggish or needs the choke on to stay running then you didnt get things clean enough


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## Patrick62 (Nov 1, 2015)

From what I got outta the origional post, the line "I can barely pull the rope start" implies that there is a cranking problem. If the engine had been run terribly low on oil that could do it... but evidently it wasn't real low... You'd be amazed how low it can get and still not damage the engine (much).

if it were to whirl good, then we can go to the Jakers post, and run thru the compression, ignition, air and fuel. If all of them are present... then it simply has to run.

I still amaze myself when something isn't working, and I have to back off to the basics and work it out.


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 1, 2015)

Check the oil. Sounds like the float may be stuck open and has filled up the crankcase. Shot in the dark but easy to eliminate.


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## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

sorry for the delay. i can even pull the rope start anymore. figured the damn thing seized on me. i checked oil yesterday awhile running and it seemed fine.

im thinking i might have to do a full engine replacement. i only got the splitter for 450 so a new egine added stay keeps me in the positive compared to a new one


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## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

Patrick62 said:


> From what I got outta the origional post, the line "I can barely pull the rope start" implies that there is a cranking problem. If the engine had been run terribly low on oil that could do it... but evidently it wasn't real low... You'd be amazed how low it can get and still not damage the engine (much).
> 
> if it were to whirl good, then we can go to the Jakers post, and run thru the compression, ignition, air and fuel. If all of them are present... then it simply has to run.
> 
> I still amaze myself when something isn't working, and I have to back off to the basics and work it out.


im convinced it was running low and when i checked the oil yesterday i mustve tapped the side with the dip stick to skew the result


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 2, 2015)

Even if it was run low on oil it's often a cheap fix... sometimes free even, just labor.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Even if it was run low on oil it's often a cheap fix... sometimes free even, just labor.


since it was mid split, i will try to remove hydro pump and change lever settings to neutral. who knows maybe the old ***** still has some time left.


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## Swamp Yankee (Nov 2, 2015)

rygar said:


> i will try to remove hydro pump and change lever settings to neutral



Systematic is the best way.

Disconnect the pump input shaft from the engine output. If the engine still won't turn over or run you now know where the issue lies. If the converse is true and the engine is free and starts it's time to troubleshoot the hydraulic system and find out what component(s) are creating the load locking up the splitter. 

Since no one asked, and I know this is stating the obvious, but is there any / enough hydraulic fluid in the reservoir? If the fluid level became too low, the pump may have cavitated causing all the internals to go boom boom, crunch crunch. Any chance with all the rain we had over the past week, water made its way into the tank, causing loss of lubricity?

Good luck and hope all works out.

Take Care


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

Swamp Yankee said:


> Systematic is the best way.
> 
> Disconnect the pump input shaft from the engine output. If the engine still won't turn over or run you now know where the issue lies. If the converse is true and the engine is free and starts it's time to troubleshoot the hydraulic system and find out what component(s) are creating the load locking up the splitter.
> 
> ...


i topped off the hydro fluid about 2-3 weeks ago. it leaks a little, but there is no way enough leaked out.


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## TimberWolf530 (Nov 2, 2015)

First thing I would do is take the plug out and pull it. If your float is stuck, you could be hydro-locked (cylinder is full of fuel). If you pull it, and a bunch of gas comes squiring out, then your float is sticking. I would definitely try that before I started taking stuff apart. Also, see if your oil smells like gas.


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## DrewUth (Nov 2, 2015)

^^ What he said. Pull the plug out and see if you can crank the motor over then.


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## Toy4xchris (Nov 2, 2015)

Like Todd says pull the plug try to turn it over. if it still doesn't work that's when you should start thinking about digging deeper is the motor attached directly to the hydo pump? if so sometimes disconnecting it from that might free it up at this moment we can almost assume it could be everything and anything all at once but the best advise is always start at the very beginning. Oh and you would be amazed on how often I have seen the little engines run even with out oil in them and they still work once you get some oil back in them. if you really think there is a chance of it being seized up I recommend some marvel mystery oil and let it sit for a few days 1st before you go and replace it I have seen locked up pistons break free after soaking for a week in marvel.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

i will try these today, i did source out a direct replacement from smallenginewarehouse.com its only 115, so its all gravy. i sold an old ladder for $70 so its almost already paid off.


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## Whitespider (Nov 2, 2015)

Todd Williams said:


> *...you could be hydro-locked (cylinder is full of fuel).*


That was my first thought.
*


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

ok i did not get a chance to remove the pump from the bottom of the engine. the control lever was stuck in reverse. i was able to get it into neutral and tried ot pull start and it barely budged. 
also after that, i removed the plug and tried to pull start and same result.


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## Whitespider (Nov 2, 2015)

rygar said:


> *ok i did not get a chance to remove the pump from the bottom of the engine.*


Bottom of the engine?? Is this a vertical crankshaft engine??
OK... take the pump off, remove the spark plug, try pulling the rope.
If it won't turn over place a 2x4 against the end of the crank and whack it hard with a hammer (don't be shy).
Now try pulling the rope still without the pump or or spark plug.
Come back with the results.
*


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> Bottom of the engine?? Is this a vertical crankshaft engine??
> OK... take the pump off, remove the spark plug, try pulling the rope.
> If it won't turn over place a 2x4 against the end of the crank and whack it hard with a hammer (don't be shy).
> Now try pulling the rope still without the pump or or spark plug.
> ...


will attempt this tomorrow, will bring splitter into garage.

**yes vertical shaft, will be a pain in the ass to remove


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## DrewUth (Nov 3, 2015)

"**yes vertical shaft, will be a pain in the ass to remove"


Maybe just tip the whole thing up on end rather than remove it? Not sure as I haven't seen your splitter, but may be a simpler solution.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

DrewUth said:


> "**yes vertical shaft, will be a pain in the ass to remove"
> 
> 
> Maybe just tip the whole thing up on end rather than remove it? Not sure as I haven't seen your splitter, but may be a simpler solution.


this is literally exactly what i was thinking. this will be done either this afternoon or tonight after 8


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## TimberWolf530 (Nov 3, 2015)

rygar said:


> this is literally exactly what i was thinking. this will be done either this afternoon or tonight after 8


How is your pump attached to the output shaft of the engine? Is it keyed, or does it just use a compression coupler? If there are two bolts on the coupler, just loosen them up, and see if you can crank it. You wouldn't need to take anything apart to do it. If the engine turns over with the coupler loose, then the engine is OK, and you can't, then start troubleshooting hydraulic system.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

Todd Williams said:


> How is your pump attached to the output shaft of the engine? Is it keyed, or does it just use a compression coupler? If there are two bolts on the coupler, just loosen them up, and see if you can crank it. You wouldn't need to take anything apart to do it. If the engine turns over with the coupler loose, then the engine is OK, and you can start troubleshooting hydraulic system.


i will take a picture when i get home.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

here are a couple of pictures.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

ok quick update 

i was able to get the pump off and tried ot pull and no luck, as usual i had an issue and had to remove the engine. now i know how to replace the engine.

with the engine off and me still not being able to pull the cord. are we now 100% certain its the engine?


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## Whitespider (Nov 3, 2015)

rygar said:


> *with the engine off and me still not being able to pull the cord. are we now 100% certain its the engine?*


Have you given the end of the crank shaft a good solid whack like I said??
*


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> Have you given the end of the crank shaft a good solid whack like I said??
> *


Not sure i have easy access to the crankshaft. when i remove the top of hte cover there is the flywheel with the fins then the fly wheel cup. i cant get that cup off. the nut holding down the fly wheel cup is too bad for any tools i have to remove. should i just give that a good shot?

let me know if my explanation sucks and you need a picture. i apologize im not great with the terminology.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 3, 2015)

Impact wrench will buzz it off easily.

Like a said in my other post, pull the engine apart before you condemn it. It may be fixable for free or just a few bucks.
I've fixed several "junk" small engines that someone ran low on oil and just had a bit of aluminum transfer on the crank.
Little bit of time with emery cloth and it's fixed.

It's pretty quick to pull apart, normally I have .5-.75 hrs labor into it.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Impact wrench will buzz it off easily.
> 
> Like a said in my other post, pull the engine apart before you condemn it. It may be fixable for free or just a few bucks.
> I've fixed several "junk" small engines that someone ran low on oil and just had a bit of aluminum transfer on the crank.
> ...


unfortunately, i dont have the right tools to take apart. wish i did


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 3, 2015)

Just need basic tools. Even the $30 "toolkits" Walmart sells has most of what you need. It's mostly what I use at the shop, I was tired of my good tools walking off so I brought them home.

You got the pump off, so you must have some tools?

The flywheel is really the biggest headache if you don't have an impact wrench, but either use a breaker bar or swing by a local Mom and Pop shop and ask them for a favor.


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## Whitespider (Nov 3, 2015)

rygar said:


> *Not sure i have easy access to the crankshaft. when i remove the top of hte cover there is the flywheel with the fins then the fly wheel cup.*


Whack the bottom end of the crank shaft where the pump was... not the top.
That will usually free the crank if it's seized to the aluminum case... if it does free it, change the oil and run it, might last another 10 years.
*


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Just need basic tools. Even the $30 "toolkits" Walmart sells has what you need. It's mostly what I use at the shop, I was tired of my good tools walking off so I brought them home.


i have a 130 piece craftsman tool set but the sockets arent big enough. i have tools just not these large socket ones. i will pull it into garage tonight and see if i can find alternatives


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 3, 2015)

If you have a Napa, Schucks, Lowes, Sears, etc nearby they usually sell individual sockets, usually not expensive.

It's usually around 1", 1 1/16, 1 1/8".

I doubt you live anywhere near Palmer, AK... I'd offer to take a look at it for you.


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