# Question For The Hookers!!!



## rahtreelimbs (Dec 31, 2004)

Today I climbed a Sugar Maple for Steve (Husky288XP). This was the first major removal that I had done in some time. The job went off without a hitch and was done in a very timely manner. I noticed something about myself when climbing with spikes. After having done primarily prunings I find myself climbing on spikes in much the same fashion. I use the balls of my feet wherever possible instead of the gaffs. I also hip thrust short distances instead of using the spikes to climb. This doesn't bother me one bit climbing this way. The way I see it whatever works for you. I just want to get other openings and also see if anyone else is prone to this. I know some members climb without spikes in which case all the methods I employed would be used.


Let me know what you think!


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 31, 2004)

When I have my gaffs on, I _have_ my gaffs on. If I've gone to the trouble of putting the suckers on, so I'm gonna make em work. Getting the most out of your spurring technique is an art you develop. The physical act of putting on your hooks doesn't mean you know how to use em for _your_ best affect.


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 31, 2004)

MasterBlaster said:


> The physical act of putting on your hooks doesn't mean you know how to use em for _your_ best affect.




Bingo Butch!!!


This is an area where my skills need improvement.


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## Stumper (Dec 31, 2004)

Butch, Do you like them kinda dull on the tips?


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 31, 2004)

No way, bro. Sharp is the ticket. It keeps you from having to stomp into the tree, and that saves wear and tear on yur lower legs. I just step, and casually walk up the tree. And being longshanks, I don't kick out.

Usually.


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## treeman82 (Dec 31, 2004)

I use whatever technique is required for the specific task at hand. Whether that is getting up to the first branch 50' up, or moving 5' up a lead.


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## Stumper (Dec 31, 2004)

Butch, I asked because your pic shows dull points. :angel:


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 31, 2004)

When I say sharp, I don't mean needle points, and I'm also refering to the sides of the gaff, along with the bevel. It's all so subjective, ya know? If ya get em too pointy, you can't get em out. And visey-versy. Ya just gotta experiment, and see whut works for you.


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## Can-Do-It (Jan 1, 2005)

*Body angle - distance from tree*

I do a lot of take downs and I've noticed that when the spikes peel out is when I'm to close to the trunk. The angle of the body to the trunk is some what more important than spike sharpness. 

The exception imo is when taking down extreme hard hardwoods.


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## Can-Do-It (Jan 1, 2005)

*My error MasterBlaster*

MasterBlaster is right. Sharperness you need. I assumed that everyone sharppened there spikes before entering a tree for take down. Sharp does not mean pointed as MB said.

But I've had a problem lately with spikes peeling out, slipping. Maybe the spikes need replacing. They may not be as long as they should be.


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## glens (Jan 1, 2005)

Or the taper may be too abrupt.


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## P_woozel (Jan 1, 2005)

If I'm not doing a central leader tree, then I'm ususally on toprope so I will use the rope in combination with the gaffs. Also, I often wear my corks when doing sreading crown trees, that may require a lot of lateral movement for rigging.


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## Al Smith (Jan 1, 2005)

I don't normally post in the climbers forum,because I am not a tree climber.I will however ,as an ex pole climber add this thought." stomping" your hooks,because they are dull,will bring you right out of a sound sleep,when the "charley horses" hit you about 2 in the morning .


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 1, 2005)

Good point, Al. I try to never stomp into the tree, but just step and walk up the tree. That's helps a lot to fight fatigue.


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## a_lopa (Jan 1, 2005)

its all in the angle of the dangle


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 1, 2005)

And the penetration of the wood.


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## huskycandoit (Jan 1, 2005)

Rich what are u worried about your knocked the tree out in about 3 1/2 hours. It would have been quicker if the chipper wasn't given use crap but o well its done. And try to do more removals to get use to the gaffs again. Jk i have no idea about that. :angel:


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## Lumberjack (Jan 2, 2005)

Well Rich, I rarely use my spikes, and when I do, I still climb on the rope as much as I can. However, if a TIP above me isnt there, then I climb the spikes in the normal fashion as butch describes. 

My pantin sees alot of action! The only time I wear spikes is when I am getting in the tips of oak trees and there is no tie in point as the wood is too small. Also on dead trees I use them because of a lack of a TIP. Other than that its only when I am blocking down the trunk and there is nowhere to stand (stub, knot, ect). I very rarely climb starting at the ground with spikes, I climb up using the rope, and then put on the spikes when I need too.


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## bubbajoe dupree (Jan 2, 2005)

Lumberjack
I very rarely climb starting at the ground with spikes said:


> Please explain. You actually put the spikes on after you have climbed up the tree? I don't understand the reasoning behind this, but I'm sure there is one.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 2, 2005)

Lumberjack said:


> I very rarely climb starting at the ground with spikes, I climb up using the rope, and then put on the spikes when I need too.




No way am I going through the hassle of putting spikes on _up_ in the tree. If I need 'em they go on beforehand.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

No way, Mike. Your foot and arch have no idea how long your gaff is. Gaff length has little or nothing to do with spur comfort.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

RAHTREELIMBS said:


> No way am I going through the hassle of putting spikes on _up_ in the tree. If I need 'em they go on beforehand.




Haha. That's a big ten-four there, good buddy.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 2, 2005)

Thanx for the comments and comments to come from the guys who *have* experience on spikes!!!




May the south smoke blowing wind stay south!!!


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## Al Smith (Jan 2, 2005)

*And another thing*

Way back then,I had full metal arch supports made,which cost over $300,in '77.Best money I ever spend .Without them,my feet would be killing me by the time I reached the top of a 50 ft "black jack".These,combined with a pair of 12" linemans boots ,made the work tolerable .I'll repeat what I've said before,you owe it to yourself to get the best climbing gear you can.This type work ,takes a toll on the body,and will make you old,before your time.


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## Koa Man (Jan 2, 2005)

Al Smith said:


> This type work ,takes a toll on the body,and will make you old,before your time.



I don't have to worry because I'm already old...for this kind of work anyway.


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## P_woozel (Jan 2, 2005)

MasterBlaster said:


> No way, Mike. Your foot and arch have no idea how long your gaff is. Gaff length has little or nothing to do with spur comfort.


MB you are a little mistaken, gaff length has a lot to do with comfort. There is less leverage on your ACL and lower leg. Thats my number one reason for waering shortys. It is a rare day anymore when I need longpoints, would have to be a really BIG fir.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

I'm telling ya'll it's all in yur head.


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## glens (Jan 2, 2005)

I've tried wearing spikes but they make it too hard to footlock.


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## NeTree (Jan 2, 2005)

glens said:


> I've tried wearing spikes but they make it too hard to footlock.



Use a Pantin OVER the gaff. As a bonus, it adds ankle support.


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## Stumper (Jan 2, 2005)

As much as it pains me to type this.....  Mike is correct. The pressure on your arches may not change (unless you are stomping hard to drive long gaffs in which makes things worse) long gaffs do change the forces higher up on your leg and, since they tend to wobble more, they are generally more fatigueing to use.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

I still think it's all in yur head. You climb on your spurs, not yur gaffs.


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## Lumberjack (Jan 2, 2005)

It aint a hassle, and I have HAD experience on spikes. It takes about two minutes tops to put them on in the tree, even less if i didnt have the buc buc pads (two straps at the top) and the buckles weren't rusted. 

Considering the amount that I use them, I find it easier to not wear them from the ground, but thats just my *experience*.


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## Stumper (Jan 2, 2005)

MasterBlaster said:


> I still think it's all in yur head. You climb on your spurs, not yur gaffs.




Butch, 
:Eye: You are aware that spurs and gaffs are the same thing aren't you? The Gaff is what stabs the wood. The Climber Iron is what the gaff is attached to and what you attach to your leg. You stand in the Stirrup of the iron.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

Thanks for the anatomy lesson, Justin. I wasn't quite sure of the correct term.

So ok, here ya go;

When I climb, it's the stirrup/climber iron I'm standing on. Comfort/discomfort has nothing to do with the length of the gaff.

:angel:


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## P_woozel (Jan 2, 2005)

Hooks, spurs, gaffs, spikes. Same-o, same-o :blob5:


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 2, 2005)

Lumberjack said:


> It aint a hassle, and I have HAD experience on spikes.



For the amount that you have been climbing trees, 1 1/2 years and the admission that you rarely use them doesn't constitute experience in my book. I have climbing almost 10 years now. I haven't used spikes all that much and I am far from being experienced on them. Climbing fulltime and using them 3-5 times a week for 5 yrs. or more constitutes experience to me. Look at it how you want. If you don't like it, don't post!


I am looking for advice from the likes of MB, Rbtree and Mike Maas just to name a few!


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## Al Smith (Jan 2, 2005)

*Hooks,gaffs spurs?*

I'm a thinken we's talkin bout those pointy things,my old finger is pointing at,a tad rusty,from no use.


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## treeman82 (Jan 2, 2005)

If I am going to use my gaffs on a tree, then I am going to use them for the entire tree. A number of years ago I had a "friend" help me on a job. He climbed up into this relatively large red oak using my spurs and then took them off once he got up to where he wanted to be. He just tossed them out of the tree. I don't talk with him anymore.


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## Stumper (Jan 2, 2005)

Matt, You sure have run through a lot of "friends" in your life.  

Butch, The extra wobble I get on long gaffs make them more tiring. In theory the longer gaff will increase the torque on the iron and consequently the climber's knees.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

Justin, the "wobble" is pilot error. And on the ground, I walk on tiptoes.


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## Stumper (Jan 2, 2005)

I won't contest the "pilot error". I'm no gaff-climbing expert.


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## treeman82 (Jan 2, 2005)

Do you guys ever replace the gaffs? I know that they are replaceable, but I've never seen any that were worn out enough that they needed to be replaced.


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## P_woozel (Jan 2, 2005)

Mike Maas said:


> The two different styles, as I learned them, are tree spikes, which have long gaffs about 3 or 4 inches, and pole spikes which have shorter gaffs, only about 2".
> If you tried to climb the lower part of a Bur Oak with pole spikes, you'd have a lot of trouble because the gaff wouldn't hit the wood unless you spiked on the ridges of the bark, but if you tried to stand in pole spikes, you would find they are much more comfortalble and they are also easier to move around in.
> Typical tree spikes have gaffs that are long enough that they hit the ground when you walk, at least the pair we have at the shop do.


Buckingham makes 3 styles of "points" tree gaffs, pole gaffs, and utility points. The utility points are quite pointed compared to the long/short points. The utility point is a nice touch on dead Madrone trees.


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## Koa Man (Jan 2, 2005)

treeman82 said:


> Do you guys ever replace the gaffs? I know that they are replaceable, but I've never seen any that were worn out enough that they needed to be replaced.



I have replaced the gaffs on my Kleins at least 6 times already, and I rarely even touch them up with a file. Believe it or not, the things get about 1/4 inch shorter just from being stuck constantly into coconut palms. We all use short pole spikes here, unless working on some thick barked eucs. All of the other trees are thin barked. I found the tree gaffs far too long and the inside of my boot was about 1 inch away from the tree, which did make it far less stable, harder to climb with and far more tiring. A set of new gaffs will last me about 2 years. I went from Kleins, to Stringer-Brooks (which I hated) to Bashlins to Buckinghams and back to Kleins. I really like how the Kleins stick in the old palm trunks that are rock hard.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 2, 2005)

Wow. :Eye:


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## pbtree (Jan 3, 2005)

Looking at the things, there is also a difference in the angle of the gaff. Tree gaffs tend to be longer, but also have a bit more of an angle from the shaft...

Unless the bark is pretty thick, pole gaffs seem to work fine...


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## a_lopa (Jan 3, 2005)

climbing on short spikes is just adding more danger,each to there own thoui


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## Rob Murphy (Jan 3, 2005)

Ive Had "spikes " sent up to me heaps of times . In the tree I think "less is more" so if I can dis mantle without them i will. I prefer prunning so avoid using "GAFFS" as much as possible.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 5, 2005)

Mike Maas said:


> A guy just does things the easisest way he can figure out.
> Spikeless climbing tends to be with your hand(s) on the rope, as you acsend, where spiking tends to be with hands on the tree. If you are tied in above and need to acsend a ways, it's easier to climb like you would without spikes a lot of times, because your climbing rope will be in the way as you move up, and then you need to advance the hitch once you get there (or as you go).
> The style you describe is the norm, I would guess, when moving up, down and around, short distances in a tree. For longer trips and work positioning, then the spikes get used more.
> When I'm working a a tree with alot of long ups and downs, I'll get a groundy to pull the slack out of the climbing line, and then tear up the tree, fast, easy, and safe, as he pulls. That's always fun.
> We talked about the difference between pole and tree spikes, and that'll determine wether you use your spike or a foot on the branch too, in different circumstances.






Real good post!!! Thanx, Mike.


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## Burnham (Jan 6, 2005)

I'd advocate putting the spurs on at the base of the tree as the last thing you do before ascending, and taking them off as soon as you hit the ground. That way you won't damage the points or edges of the gaffs themselves by walking on rocks or the like, and you make it less likely that you'll damage your rope, lanyard, or yourself with a poorly placed step.

Since my spur climbing is pretty much always in conifers with thick, deeply furrowed bark, pole gaffs are less than useless to me...it's tree gaffs all the way. I really believe that if you are using these long gaffs, you should definately not be walking around on the ground in them...it is way too easy to put a sharp 3 1/2 in. gaff through the top of your foot or other gear. 

How many of you routinely use gaff covers to protect both the climbers, yourself, and other gear when transporting/storing?


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## Koa Man (Jan 6, 2005)

Burnham said:


> How many of you routinely use gaff covers to protect both the climbers, yourself, and other gear when transporting/storing?



I use a short piece of rubber tubing to slip over the gaffs. I got real lucky and saw someone selling Klein pole gaffs on a Dutch auction on Ebay. They had 12 sets for sale. I bought them all for $12.50 each, $5 shipping and no additional shipping charge if you bought more than one. I don't think the seller thought 1 person would buy them all. They are normally about $50 a set. I sold 5 of them for $25 a set, so now I have 7 sets which cost me $30.


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## Burnham (Jan 6, 2005)

Here are a couple of pictures of the gaff covers I use...homemade, cheap, stout. All it takes is two 8 in. long pieces of heavy-duty garden hose and a sharp knife. They stay on pretty well all by themselves, as the upper part grips the shank, but a single wrap around them with the lower strap , buckled down, secures them completely.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 6, 2005)

Now _THAT_ is a most excellent idea!!!


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## Can-Do-It (Jan 17, 2005)

*Oh Yes*



treeman82 said:


> Do you guys ever replace the gaffs? I know that they are replaceable, but I've never seen any that were worn out enough that they needed to be replaced.



I posted here some time back that I was having trouble with my gaffs pealing out. It had been getting worse lately or I was paying more attention to it.  

Anyway, I called Sherrell and thanks to Johnny(climbers are about 25 yrs old), ordered another set.  

The old gaffs were 3/4" shorter and not much of a point when compared to the new ones.  

Yes .... you definitely need to replace gaffs from time to time. :angel:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 17, 2005)

Nice idea for gaff covers, I use foam pipe insulation on mine.


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## Ryan Willock (Jan 27, 2005)

I personally like my 3 1/2'' buckingham's. I topped and flopped a white oak two weeks ago that was hard as a rock. I run into that quite often so I like'um sharp!


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## Local # 17 T.T. (Jan 27, 2005)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Nice idea for gaff covers, I use foam pipe insulation on mine.


 a couple pieces of old garden hose works well too.

Mike


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## Tree Machine (Jan 27, 2005)

Retired tubing from a Bigshot.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 27, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> Retired tubing from a Bigshot.



Show a pic... :Eye:


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 27, 2005)

A hunk of auto fuel line is what I use!!!


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 27, 2005)

Youse guys are all fancy and such!


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## topnotchtree (Jan 27, 2005)

I am not sure where to find them, but there are template gauges that manufacturers sell to help you keep your gaffs the same angle and shape as when new.


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## Ryan Willock (Jan 27, 2005)

Sherrill's carrys them.


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## begleytree (Jan 27, 2005)

Butch, you look like ya got them staps good and wore in. I broke an ankle strap today on a willow TD (well, B4 I got into it anyway). Now I gotta go get new stiff straps 
-Ralph


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