# Gyppo Logger



## windthrown (Nov 29, 2015)

About Gyppo Loggers, AKA: Gypo Loggers, as spelled north of the 49th parallel, we have this from Wikipedia:

A *gyppo logger* (sometimes spelled "gypo logger") is a lumberjack who runs or works for a small scale logging operation that is independent from an established sawmill or lumber company. The gyppo system is one of two main patterns of the organization of logging labor in the Pacific Northwest, the other being the "company logger." Gyppo loggers were originally condemned by the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) as strikebreakers.


After the founding of a government-sponsored company union, the Loyal Legion of Loggers and Lumbermen, weakened the influence of the IWW on the logging industry, gyppos were seen as a component of the timber business in a less ideologically charged context.

I resemble the less ideologically charged context myself, rather more than less from the literature of Ken Kesey. I so hate the unions. Union people here want to sh*t and get paid for it.


----------



## Gologit (Nov 29, 2015)

If you get a chance read "Deadfall" by James LeMonds. It gives a good historical perspective on unions and PNW logging.


----------



## slowp (Nov 29, 2015)

I thank the unions because they did a lot of good. Also, wages were higher amongst the loggers in these parts when there were a few unionized crews. Those wages are about the same now and there are no union crews that I am aware of. Correlation? 

In today's anti-worker atmosphere, I should think we would be embracing unions but the brainwashing has worked too well for that.


----------



## SliverPicker (Nov 29, 2015)

Only 8% of the private work force in this county it unionized. Union workers make 17% more money on average than the typical non-union worker.

That's all I know about the subject.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 29, 2015)

For a long time I despised the unions, mostly cause of the boeing idiots, they have a gimme gimme attitude and a f u its not in my job description work ethic.

I'm not so sure anymore.

On one hand work is being farmed out to other non unionized country's, because the unions kept asking for more and more money (money they arguable don't need)

On the other hand unions bring up the wages for everyone around, and right now taint no one making a decent wage unless they are union, and then they seem to be making more then they are worth?

Yes I am thankful for the 40hr week and overtime, though the child labor laws have gotten out of hand... (why can't a 16 year old work along side their parents? or at a job they are interested in? old enough to drive and operate a deadly motor vehicle should be good to operate equipment)


----------



## bnmc98 (Nov 29, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> On one hand work is being farmed out to other non unionized country's, because the unions kept asking for more and more money (money they arguable don't need)
> 
> On the other hand unions bring up the wages for everyone around, and right now taint no one making a decent wage unless they are union, and then they seem to be making more then they are worth?



I guess the way I see it, and it may be lopsided because I live at US poverty level. Why would I pay someone $40 an hr to put a nut on the end of a bolt when I could pay someone oversees to do it for $3. I can't afford most US stuff so I have to go to import superstores like Wally World. There are a lot of people in the US in the same boat I am. Although unions bring wages up, in my mind, that also brings cost of goods and services up.
Of which there is a limit to the wage increase vs a maximum push for the cost of goods by any company. I am not an economics expert as my stated income shows, but I do not see how unions benefit us in a global economy other than cutting our own throats.

eg. It was only shortly after our Pres passed the open trade agreement that our mills in this area gave us the ultimatum that unless we renegotiate our contract with you to less per 1000 then we will no longer purchase your wood, this was directly related to the drop in lumber prices shortly after the trade agreement. And that was the exact explanation the mills gave for the price cut.
How can a union demand more for wages in an economy situation like I just stated?

I don't want to be the turd in the punch bowl but I have heard that 1/4 of the US lives on some sort of gov assistance and it is only getting worse. How can we keep going with any industry if we can't compete globally, and how can we compete globally if our cost of doing business is so much greater that everyone else? 

I would like to charge more for what I do, but the market will not bear it in this area sad to say.

Am I off? If I am, I don't mind someone educating me....


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 29, 2015)

Though this is dangerously getting political...

These trade agreements are what is hamstringing honest americans, NAFTA, TPP, WTO, all are about useless, and bent more on reducing the cost for the owners of mega corps, the same assholes that fund most politicians...

What we need is to cut all trade with everyone and worry about our selfs for a change, The united states has nearly everything it needs to be self reliant without global trade, why imported junk is cheaper I can't say, cause i can remember when imported usually meant expensive.

We have all the food we want

all the natural resources we will ever need.

nearly all the minerals we could want

What we are missing is what has gone away, skilled labor. Somehow american skilled labor has been strangled and now we have to really on imports for **** we used to make right here, and honestly we made/make a better product.

The unions may be partly to blame I don't honestly know anymore, But I do know that relying on someone else is a fools way to lose everything.


----------



## bnmc98 (Nov 29, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> What we need is to cut all trade with everyone and worry about our selfs for a change, The united states has nearly everything it needs to be self reliant without global trade, why imported junk is cheaper I can't say, cause i can remember when imported usually meant expensive.



I think you are onto something here. I think of recent, we have given preference to the minority (not being racial or even talking about any ethnic or religious group) and not the majority. The minority is seen as more important than the majority.
When you live in a house as a family, do you neglect the sons and daughters in favor of someone else?

someone needs to stick up for the sons and daughters of the United States again.... Just my opinion


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 29, 2015)

look out for you and yours first, **** everyone else.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 30, 2015)

I don't know of many jobs that consider a 40hr week a normal work week... well aside from bankers and doctors.



northmanlogging said:


> Yes I am thankful for the 40hr week and overtime, though the child labor laws have gotten out of hand... (why can't a 16 year old work along side their parents? or at a job they are interested in? old enough to drive and operate a deadly motor vehicle should be good to operate equipment)


----------



## Frank Savage (Nov 30, 2015)

One pretty old song comes to mind (and Lorne Greene in particular), part goes as "...I owe my soul to the company store..."
You will live a life which we permit you to do, with resources we will provide you and we permit you to obtain a f**k with anyone and including you who might give ya a peek on what and where else you can get for the same amount of labor/money... First leap to slavery with a politicaly correct name (like " All-around employee care program"), thats where the unions have a good place. I´m no expert in PNW logging history, but from what I´ve stumbled upon, there were several comps running their bussines alike there, so no surprise unions formed. That the union oficials are now mostly just what they are, just another a$$hole greedy managers who don´t know a **** about the trade and job of people they "represent", that´s other thing, one to get rid of and non-original to basics of the unions.
What of this I see in current America´s present from a good distance does not belong here, but close rensemblance in some spots...


----------



## dooby (Nov 30, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> I think you are onto something here. I think of recent, we have given preference to the minority (not being racial or even talking about any ethnic or religious group) and not the majority. The minority is seen as more important than the majority.
> When you live in a house as a family, do you neglect the sons and daughters in favor of someone else?
> 
> someone needs to stick up for the sons and daughters of the United States again.... Just my opinion


I am definitely not a racist but i am for damned sure a culturalist-disliking the welfare culture for one. Can't afford Bomba care and make to much for Medicaid. The Union never did much for me. worked next to some union drywallers/carpenters that were pretty good hands. St.Regis and Champion international were both union timber companies were i am from, both are gone now but one of my mentors is enjoying his union check every month. Its always seemed like private s.s.i to me (and just as corrupt). We as a nation need to remember that getting off our arses is good for us. I am also w/Northman- if your old enough to drive a 3500lb. weipon you should be able to work in the industry. My 15 yr.old wants to be a Smoke Jumper-he can fling himself from an airplane but i cant get work comp for him to run a skidder or bump knots.


----------



## Babaganoosh (Nov 30, 2015)

There are a lot of rare earth metals that we don't have that we need to run our computers and cell phones. Just one example of do need some other countries for products.


----------



## chucker (Nov 30, 2015)

self reliance is the key to life ... no one said life was fair or easy! this is why we make our own way, either punching a clock for someone else or the feast and famine of self reliance. doing what we do to make the best of our situation delt by our own attitude, aptitude and ambition is our destiny which we owe to no one but ourself. i choose self reliance by my own ambition.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 30, 2015)

Babaganoosh said:


> There are a lot of rare earth metals that we don't have that we need to run our computers and cell phones. Just one example of do need some other countries for products.



Need is such a definite word...

We have rare earth mines here, they just aren't as massive or cheap to run as the ones in china.

Titanium is anouther we are short on, Russia has the most, we are #2 in that game.

Could you folks imagine what would happen if suddenly cheap steel, aluminium, or copper was suddenly had tariffs to compete with domestic products? The rust belt would wake up over night...

Not to mention all these timber trade deals that are currently getting kicked around, America should be exporting timber, instead we are importing it? WTF! Stop buying lumber stamped china or canada and suddenly logging would be a career worth living for.


----------



## dooby (Dec 1, 2015)

The "Next Generation Gyppo" will most likely log and mill there own timber as well as market it. When the "value added tax" makes its way into our revenue i dont see that there will be enough $ left in the log to support the Gyppo , the mill and a lumberyard


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 1, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Need is such a definite word...
> 
> We have rare earth mines here, they just aren't as massive or cheap to run as the ones in china.
> 
> ...





bnmc98 said:


> I guess the way I see it, and it may be lopsided because I live at US poverty level. Why would I pay someone $40 an hr to put a nut on the end of a bolt when I could pay someone oversees to do it for $3. I can't afford most US stuff so I have to go to import superstores like Wally World. There are a lot of people in the US in the same boat I am. Although unions bring wages up, in my mind, that also brings cost of goods and services up.
> Of which there is a limit to the wage increase vs a maximum push for the cost of goods by any company. I am not an economics expert as my stated income shows, but I do not see how unions benefit us in a global economy other than cutting our own throats.
> 
> eg. It was only shortly after our Pres passed the open trade agreement that our mills in this area gave us the ultimatum that unless we renegotiate our contract with you to less per 1000 then we will no longer purchase your wood, this was directly related to the drop in lumber prices shortly after the trade agreement. And that was the exact explanation the mills gave for the price cut.
> ...


.........yup, and yup. you boys got a pretty good handle on this. now what can we do about it? is the majority really to lazy? or have they been brainwashed? are we the few who could not be brain washed? how many of us are there really? i would venture to say not enough.


----------



## bnmc98 (Dec 1, 2015)

Unfortunately it seems politics controls who we do business with. And now the trend with politicians is that it doesn't matter what WE want, they kind of go there own way and pass stuff regardless. I don't remember getting to vote on the trade stuff. 
We are very good at spending as a country, so why the need to lower costs. We just make more debt and pass extensions. It's ok if 25% of the people can't make it without the government. We'll just drive that nail in further.
It's like the whole coal plant issue here in MT. Pres and enviros want them shut down. We have no other means of energy here. So, we will have to import it or pay through the nose to fabricate something else.
I for one cannot pay more for energy. Even if they stick it to the plants to scrub their air more, that will cost us more. (Big business does not take the hit, the consumer does) We are 49 in this nation for income per capita last I heard. Maybe they should think about us who make up the states population rather than what looks good to them. You can't get blood out of a turnip. Lets just increase the number of people dependent on fed money.

I don't know what we can do about it.... seems like a train wreck coming


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 1, 2015)

perhaps things will be better after the wreck for those willing to try.........


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 1, 2015)

A guy can always attempt to opt out.

Grow yer own food.

Build as much as you can from what is around you.

Barter for what you can't build or grow.

Primative as can be, but no taxes and no money needed, just a decent amount of acreage.

Granted its nearly impossible to live a normal american life... so having some side jobs here and there to make some spending cash to keep the lights on, and buy the occasional pair of pants or what not... But I truly believe that a guy could ignore most of the world politics and live without the rest of the countries support. 

Hel there are even micro hydro/wind/solar generation units that can be built on the cheap or free.

Eventually if enough folks say to hel with it, and stop making money for the government to waste on **** we don't need or want, there won't be enough money for the government to wipe its own ass... so they will have to turn all this mess around and fix us... but how long will it take who knows?


----------



## bitzer (Dec 1, 2015)

The younger generations have a sense of entiltlement. Like they are owed something no matter what. Pride is a rare thing. Think about who this country idolizes. I'm so sick of hearing about **** like Lamar Odom and the kardashians. People who did nothing to become enourmously rich. Even sports figures. Its just a game, but we place that empasis there. Young people just figure they will become rich and famous by being discovered on youtube or some crap. We are a nation of narcissists or have become one for the most part. Everyone does what they want, when they want. Someone will be there to pay right? My youngest sister is 26 and still on my parents insurance even though she hasn't lived at home for 8 years. Christ most of my buddys are just settling down in their early 30s. Its like yer supposed to just screw around until yer at least 30. That is why no one wants to work hard anymore or take any pride in anything. Why would you when you can just lean on the others? We've gotten fat, people. When in Rome.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 1, 2015)

dooby said:


> The "Next Generation Gyppo" will most likely log and mill there own timber as well as market it. When the "value added tax" makes its way into our revenue i dont see that there will be enough $ left in the log to support the Gyppo , the mill and a lumberyard


One owner and one forester from my mill does have their own crews, so essentially thats what they are doing. The logging biz is a seperate entity from the mill, but same owner.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 1, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> A guy can always attempt to opt out.
> 
> Grow yer own food.
> 
> ...


lol, there is just a few things i can't figure out to not need money for......but i'm about 2/3 the way there. property tax is a biggie.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 2, 2015)

Property tax is a crime in my opinion, if I own it why do I have to pay a tax on it so it can be taken away? I can think of at least one country where this is unheard of...

But prop taxes out here amount to about 4 loads of logs after expenses...


----------



## windthrown (Dec 2, 2015)

There is no opting out. You can try, but gasoline/diesel costs eat into everything. Also property taxes and electricity. You can go solar, but there are up front costs. I live on about $1,500 a month and that is as cheap as I can go. Medical insurance/co-pay is my biggest cost, after that gasoline, then food, then electric & phone bill, then taxes. I have a well and no water bill, and a septic and no sewer bill. I grow a lot of my own food here and trade for other goods. They want to bring sewer and water in here though. Another tax. School bonds here are half the property taxes now. They keep raiding the county funds and then they have an election to raise more levies to pay for school bonds. *sigh*

I was in 3 unions over the years. One was AFL/CIO and the most senior people there did no work. They sat around and challenged management to fire them, which they knew they could not do. The next was a carpenter's union but I quit that after a month. Working on a crew sucked, and it was too dangerous. I went back to being a tree butcher. Later on I was in an engineering union when I worked in aerospace, but we engineers voted the union out because it was always 'go slow' during contract negotiations, and we had deadlines to meet. We also got a better benefit deal from the company and that really ticked off the union, so they went on strike and badgered us and picketed. Then they were all friendly when the contract was signed, but the resentment was always an undertone from both sides. That company had 6 different unions representing workers there. It was always a problem getting anything done. My engineering aid rarely showed up to work. She always called in sick on Mondays. She had seniority, and they could not fire her, even though she was completely incompetent (when she did show up for work).

Several unions have shot themselves in the feet around here lately. They had the huge strike at the Portland docks last year and earlier this year they walked out. So ships were stuck out in the Pacific for months. Then negotiations broke down and the largest shipping company here (Hanjin) pulled out of Portland. Terminal 6 lost 80% of its business overnight. So trucking has increased, traffic on the freeways in and out of Portland have slowed due to the increase in trucking traffic, and well, that's what that strike got us. The economy was held hostage by the dock workers, and the repercussions are still having an impact in importers and exporters. Currently General Distributors, a beer and wine distributor in the PNW is being hit by a Teamsters strike. They had until last week to show up for work or the company said that they will be permanently replaced. Looks like they are all out of their jobs now. Scabs are delivering the goods, and likely they will become permanent employees. My brother runs a bar, and he says that some beers are hard to get now, but he is basically unaffected by the strike.


----------



## dooby (Dec 2, 2015)

bitzer said:


> The younger generations have a sense of entiltlement. Like they are owed something no matter what. Pride is a rare thing. Think about who this country idolizes. I'm so sick of hearing about **** like Lamar Odom and the kardashians. People who did nothing to become enourmously rich. Even sports figures. Its just a game, but we place that empasis there. Young people just figure they will become rich and famous by being discovered on youtube or some crap. We are a nation of narcissists or have become one for the most part. Everyone does what they want, when they want. Someone will be there to pay right? My youngest sister is 26 and still on my parents insurance even though she hasn't lived at home for 8 years. Christ most of my buddys are just settling down in their early 30s. Its like yer supposed to just screw around until yer at least 30. That is why no one wants to work hard anymore or take any pride in anything. Why would you when you can just lean on the others? We've gotten fat, people. When in Rome.


My son is 21 and is umungst a minority for his generation, he works very hard for his half of the company we have created together. I am very proud of him and lucky to have him working with me. And in some part -he is fortunate to be working w/a person whom was trained by an almost forgotten generation. In an earlier post i stated obama care and medicaidand actually ment "blue shield" in place of medicaid. SORRY !!! if we dont as a nation put aside our need to be fed w/the arena that Rome used long ago to subdue our minds it will be to late and the Gyppo will most likely subside till its too late. Franklin said we had a republic at one point and its time we awake and reclaim the Gyppo mentality. ONE BARTER AT A TIME>


----------



## coltont (Dec 2, 2015)

Unions protect the lazy man and the people that don't want to work. Anyone that's pro union around here needs a great big truck to haul there ego around in. Piss on the union I'll work my way up from the bottom without the help from them.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 2, 2015)

Several large local machine shops have gone union here, One at least is already striking. What they don't understand is that these large shops are just factory's full of unskilled labor pushing out the same ole parts, some dude in india or china could do the same job with minimal training

So the work is being outsourced, for now small shops are getting most of it, since it takes a few months to get overseas shops up to snuff.

The same thing happened in Frisco in the 60's-70's shops first went to contract labor then shipped the work up here to the pnw. Now try getting a job in a Frisco machine shop that pays a decent wage.


----------



## Gologit (Dec 2, 2015)

In the early 80s I was working for a logging company that had their own trucks. One morning no company trucks showed up on my job, just gypos. The company drivers had decided to organize and voted to go with Teamsters. Bad idea.
The owner of the company locked up every truck he owned. He told the drivers..."You voted for a union and the law says I have to recognize that. I do. You have a union. What you don't have is trucks to drive. No law says I have to run trucks. Enjoy your damn union".
I kinda liked the change. The gypos would show up on time, load to the max, hustle to get an extra load, and didn't complain about every little thing. 
The company trucks stayed locked up for over three years and when they came out again they had new paint jobs with a different name on the door. And no union drivers.


----------



## dooby (Dec 2, 2015)

Have a Great day every one this 'lil Gyppo has to get to work


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 2, 2015)

you right WT, can't completely drop out. i can minimize my interaction with the rat race however. my place is paid off, we ride in paid off old pickups, all the equipment is paid off. i work kind of how i want to.......but we live accordingly and we don't mind that.


----------



## chucker (Dec 2, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> you right WT, can't completely drop out. i can minimize my interaction with the rat race however. my place is paid off, we ride in paid off old pickups, all the equipment is paid off. i work kind of how i want to.......but we live accordingly and we don't mind that.


it leaves you in a good feeling at the end of the day when everything went well. "I owe, I owe" is no place to go! feast or famine is the life for me.


----------



## windthrown (Dec 2, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> you right WT, can't completely drop out. i can minimize my interaction with the rat race however. my place is paid off, we ride in paid off old pickups, all the equipment is paid off. i work kind of how i want to.......but we live accordingly and we don't mind that.



Yes, that is one secret to cutting your expenses, and rather drastically. Pay everything off. That is not so easy to do though. My house, truck, student loans, and credit cards are all paid off. Paying interest to the bank is a killer to many people and they cannot get out from under it. When I was working in the SF Bay area I was making 8 grand a month as an engineer, but the overhead there was insane. My house payments were 2 grand a month after tax deductions, my taxes (income, SS and property) were about 3 grand a month, student loans were another 500 a month, car payments were 500 a month, credit card bills, gas and utilities were another grand a month, leaving me about a grand a month for dates, groceries and beer. There was no getting ahead. The thing that saved me was that my house doubled in value, so I sold it and left the Bay Area when I got laid off well before the housing crash. There was no capital gains tax on the house gains, so I had the money to pay off all my debts, and later buy my house here in foreclosure for dirt with cash and fix it up. I was and am lucky.


----------



## KiwiBro (Dec 2, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> look out for you and yours first, **** everyone else.


****ing the money changers, the usurious advantage seekers, the wealth concentrators, and anyone who sides with, aspires to become or enables (through apathy or ignorance), these people, *WILL* be looking "out for you and yours" in one of the best and most sustainable ways possible.

Instead, we put the wrong people up on pedestals, champion the wrong values and then expect to plead ignorance when the proverbial hits the fan and the next generation is wondering why our generation stole so much from them.


----------



## HuskStihl (Dec 2, 2015)

The problem with modern America is how people are reimbursed for work. Build something, fix something, haul stuff, or cut stuff down, and you will likely live paycheck to paycheck. 
My college roommate works for Goldman Sachs. He owns a 4000sq foot apartment in TriBeCa, a home in Malibu, a home in Hawaii, and a home on Hilton head. He tells people what to do with their money and gets a percentage for that.


----------



## chucker (Dec 2, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> The problem with modern America is how people are reimbursed for work. Build something, fix something, haul stuff, or cut stuff down, and you will likely live paycheck to paycheck.
> My college roommate works for Goldman Sachs. He owns a 4000sq foot apartment in TriBeCa, a home in Malibu, a home in Hawaii, and a home on Hilton head. He tells people what to do with their money and gets a percentage for that.


? sounds like you should be all ears with your college roommate and a weekly pay check now and then..... that is to further your education on finances.........


----------



## slowp (Dec 2, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Property tax is a crime in my opinion, if I own it why do I have to pay a tax on it so it can be taken away? I can think of at least one country where this is unheard of...
> 
> But prop taxes out here amount to about 4 loads of logs after expenses...



Because we have fire depts. and schools and hospitals. Somebody paid taxes when I went to school and I don't mind doing my share--although I didn't think a fancy new casino style sign was needed or a new track and football field but apparently others feel it was necessary....sigh. 

It's this mentality of not being part of a community that will come back and bite. We have to pay taxes if we want to keep our country's roads, airports, schools, and all theat stuff going. You might want to crawl into a bunker and live on your own, but I like to have a community/country where folks help each other and don't discriminate. 

Why this bummer of a topic anyway? Isn't there enough of it in the political forum? Sheesh, log trucks are moving (a bit too fast for my taste) on my road, the mills are running, I see all the trucks are out in the woods that belong to one of the bigger outfits, that means people are working, and that's a good thing. Such was not the case in 2009.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 2, 2015)

yes msP but the roads are horrible and the school is terrible. so where is my tax money being spent? i understand what your saying and you are right......how ever, some thing has gone horribly wrong lately.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 2, 2015)

slowp said:


> Because we have fire depts. and schools and hospitals. Somebody paid taxes when I went to school and I don't mind doing my share--although I didn't think a fancy new casino style sign was needed or a new track and football field but apparently others feel it was necessary....sigh.
> 
> It's this mentality of not being part of a community that will come back and bite. We have to pay taxes if we want to keep our country's roads, airports, schools, and all theat stuff going. You might want to crawl into a bunker and live on your own, but I like to have a community/country where folks help each other and don't discriminate.
> 
> Why this bummer of a topic anyway? Isn't there enough of it in the political forum? Sheesh, log trucks are moving (a bit too fast for my taste) on my road, the mills are running, I see all the trucks are out in the woods that belong to one of the bigger outfits, that means people are working, and that's a good thing. Such was not the case in 2009.



Yes public services are important, but there are other ways to pay for them, threatening folks with being homeless is wrong though. Sales tax, road tax etc. lotterys (that aren't robbed by the state)


----------



## dooby (Dec 3, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes msP but the roads are horrible and the school is terrible. so where is my tax money being spent? i understand what your saying and you are right......how ever, some thing has gone horribly wrong lately.


My son(15)often gets into hot H2O @ school for speaking his mind so he is taught to say "in my opinion". Here is mine-this whole thread was started from a Wikipedia quote that was full of political reasons as to the current state of the Gyppo. To me and mine a Gyppo is any kind of person whom acquires a product and markets it or works for a piece of the action one piece at a time through volume in the form of weight,scale, or piece.  The Gyppo mentality kinda goes to CHIT with the coming of the hrly wage. when i interview potential help and ask what they are worth the response is usually an hrly rate. Its never "X% of the volume sold,produced,or harvested". When something breaks or a plan fails or stumbles the "Gyppo" fixes the problem asap to gain further production. They often go in early and stay late. they are a fiercely independent-learning through the school of hard knocks. They weld in the rain-plow the snow in the middle of the night-tough it through an injury-ETC.


----------



## slowp (Dec 3, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes msP but the roads are horrible and the school is terrible. so where is my tax money being spent? i understand what your saying and you are right......how ever, some thing has gone horribly wrong lately.



Our schools are not horrible. The whole public school thing has been politicized and is something that some rich folks want to get hold of and make money off of. The blame game is in full swing and teachers take the brunt of that. If your schools are so bad, change it. Do you talk to teachers? Go to meetings about your kids? And don't sue the school for every little thing. The latter takes money from all of us and gives it to the lawyers. 

No, I don't have kids. I see a lot of parental involvement in our community, and the kids with ambition seem to do all right. That's what it is all about. Being all right--not getting rich. Look at your priorities and thank whatever deity you believe in because things could be a heck of a lot worse. Is that a Scandihoovian way of thinking that things could always be worse? 

Northman, yes, property taxes are high. In fact, that's on my reasons to move list. Property tax is linked to the value of our places, and what folks are paying for it, or perceived to be. You live closer to one of the highest priced cities in the country and I'm sure that affects your taxes. My Don't Move Here campaign isn't working.

We get the government we elect. Hope all of you vote.


----------



## slowp (Dec 3, 2015)

dooby said:


> My son(15)often gets into hot H2O @ school for speaking his mind so he is taught to say "in my opinion". Here is mine-this whole thread was started from a Wikipedia quote that was full of political reasons as to the current state of the Gyppo. To me and mine a Gyppo is any kind of person whom acquires a product and markets it or works for a piece of the action one piece at a time through volume in the form of weight,scale, or piece.  The Gyppo mentality kinda goes to CHIT with the coming of the hrly wage. when i interview potential help and ask what they are worth the response is usually an hrly rate. Its never "X% of the volume sold,produced,or harvested". When something breaks or a plan fails or stumbles the "Gyppo" fixes the problem asap to gain further production. They often go in early and stay late. they are a fiercely independent-learning through the school of hard knocks. They weld in the rain-plow the snow in the middle of the night-tough it through an injury-ETC.



Timber fallers in this area went to an hourly rate with the advent of thinning jobs. Thinnings take more time and skill and less volume is put on the ground than with clearcutting. The days of the 3 log loads are over. 

You get what you pay for. The highest paid guys do an excellent job and take pride in their falling skills. One gypo couldn't find a good faller and their whole yarding crew would be down because they had caught up to the fallers. A local guy persuaded him to see about hiring two high priced local fallers. He did and they made him a success. He kept them working for him on other jobs even thought they cost him more dollars per hour. They sure increased his production.


----------



## dooby (Dec 3, 2015)

How can i get my point across without seaming to political or offending some liberal view, i cant at this point... So its off to "gyppo slope" .


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 3, 2015)

schools here are pretty bad. and i have a problem with what and how the kids are being taught, or not being taught. no, the mrs. won't allow me at the meetings yet lol. i did check into the private school i attended.....11,000 a year now. that ain't gonna happen. all i can do is try and teach him the values i grew up with and hope it sticks. some of the teachers know the curriculum is flawed but i guess they must follow it if they want a job.


----------



## BGE541 (Dec 3, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> Only 8% of the private work force in this county it unionized. Union workers make 17% more money on average than the typical non-union worker.
> 
> That's all I know about the subject.



They make 17% more but how much more do the pay relatively in taxes and Union fee's?


----------



## SliverPicker (Dec 3, 2015)

No idea.


----------



## dooby (Dec 3, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> They make 17% more but how much more do the pay relatively in taxes and Union fee's?


 It's a lot like social sec.-someone will always pay the back note for someone else on their front note. Its the sickest most Bastardized form of "pay it forward"(back or butt whatever you prefer)that has been thought of since who knows when.


----------



## slowp (Dec 4, 2015)

dooby said:


> How can i get my point across without seaming to political or offending some liberal view, i cant at this point... So its off to "gyppo slope" .



I'm not offended. You haven't resorted to name calling, or insulting my beliefs--unlike the political forum. I do have a liberal view. That's allowed in our country and I happen to feel and probably vote differently than most on here. Hope your feelings weren't hurt but I posted what I observe going on in these parts and a come around of a gypo logger from frustration to production. 

Another example? There was another yarder outfit that was rumored to pay more per hour to their yarding crew and pay cash under the table. The trouble was that they also skimped on replacing parts and were broke down for 4 days of the week, and might get a day's worth of work before breaking down again. Needless to say, they had a high crew turnover and didn't impress the mill they were logging for any. 

When the good gypo logger would return to this area, it was like the Blues Brothers movie. I was up on another job and a guy came out of the woods--I have no idea what he was doing or where his transportation was, and said, "I heard ______ is coming back to log here. Is it true?" His local crew liked to work for him because he paid them a fair wage and he paid them on time and it was all done legally. He'd even go hunt down guys who had quit to give them their check. 

The most excellent crews worked for a larger outfit--I think they might be too big to be considered gypo? They paid well, kept guys working, and even offered health insurance before it became mandatory. I liked working with them. Apparently they always had a stack of filled out job applications available and could be choosy about who worked for them. 

I'll still say you get what you pay for.


----------



## Haywire (Dec 4, 2015)

I'm pretty liberal when it comes to helpings of cake or cookies.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 4, 2015)

I guess I could be considered liberal myself, though I have a tendency to get uppity about weapons and the taking of them. Just have a different idear as to how folks should be taxed.


----------



## chucker (Dec 4, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> I guess I could be considered liberal myself, though I have a tendency to get uppity about weapons and the taking of them. Just have a different idear as to how folks should be taxed.


! "my taxes are so low"... that we still have 2 lane dirt highways with painted center lines!! so you can see where my tax dollars go. as far as my weepawns, theres no worries when there aimed out the windows and doors! let them come?.


----------



## dooby (Dec 4, 2015)

Ms.P- I am not offended at all. My son and i do are "Gyppo" to the core. there are no hand outs here. Wyoming is a right to work state, making Union work here limited to big corporations(mining and power co. mainly). In most of my working career i have been self employed and have had up 17-21 people i was responsible for and don't care to eve be that busy again. During that phase i was a drywall/paint contractor and competed with Union crews alot. Many times taking over their contracts because of lack of performance on the union crews part to make the General Contractor happy. Like Gologit stated and i paraphrase "the Gyppo showed up on time and got it done". As far as the liberal statement i made- I got a John Wayne-Lee Marvin-Sam Peckinpaw attitude about most things and was feeling a little brash about this whole subject. And still do. I got a warning once before from the Magisterium for my dialect on this site and don't care another. . while there are folks on this site whom are just curious and are on the "forestry and logging" page and others who used to be involved and still are - Awwh heck i just take some of this Chit way to serious. but maybe i am just galled at myself for not kissin' Corporal Am. hind end. I'd rather kick it.. We do what we do one stump at a time.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 5, 2015)

just for the record.........i dunno if i'd call any one here a liberal. Matt i got a purdy good handle on how you live, you ain't one lol. Ms. P you do look at things a little bit different than i but you are not that far left that we can't meet in the middle. and yes we all do have a right to feel how we want.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 5, 2015)

Maybe libraltarian would be a better description?


----------



## Gologit (Dec 5, 2015)

Liberal conservative? Conservative liberal? How about free thinker? Why hang your hat on only one description? How about making up your own mind from all the information available? If we choose to label ourselves as just one thing and listen to just one side we limit what we believe and what we understand. I kinda like cherry picking the best ideas and people from both sides...or all sides...of the argument and using them to make things better for myself.
That might be a little self-serving but it seems to work.
And that's as close to a political statement as I get.


----------



## slowp (Dec 5, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Liberal conservative? Conservative liberal? How about free thinker? Why hang your hat on only one description? How about making up your own mind from all the information available? If we choose to label ourselves as just one thing and listen to just one side we limit what we believe and what we understand. I kinda like cherry picking the best ideas and people from both sides...or all sides...of the argument and using them to make things better for myself.
> That might be a little self-serving but it seems to work.
> And that's as close to a politcal statement as I get.



Yay! Yes, we should be free to think for ourselves without being ridiculed, threatened and called names.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 5, 2015)

well....y'all can just call me paranoid then, i don't believe any thing any politician says lol.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 5, 2015)

Free thinking is bad...


----------



## Gologit (Dec 5, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Free thinking is bad...




...but getting paid to think is great!


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 5, 2015)

ain't that what we do every day?


----------



## KiwiBro (Dec 5, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Free thinking is bad...


Bad thinking would be free if not for the cost.


----------



## Elon Cook (Aug 21, 2017)

windthrown said:


> About Gyppo Loggers, AKA: Gypo Loggers, as spelled north of the 49th parallel, we have this from Wikipedia:
> 
> A *gyppo logger* (sometimes spelled "gypo logger") is a lumberjack who runs or works for a small scale logging operation that is independent from an established sawmill or lumber company. The gyppo system is one of two main patterns of the organization of logging labor in the Pacific Northwest, the other being the "company logger." Gyppo loggers were originally condemned by the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) as strikebreakers.
> 
> ...



Do any authentic, working gyppo loggers still exist? Or anyone that used to be one who still lives that lifestyle? I am doing a television documentary on loggers and want to find a real deal gyppo if such thing still exists.


----------



## bitzer (Aug 26, 2017)

Yep. They don't usually like being filmed or having their operations exposed to the public. Unless there's a huge paycheck involved.


----------



## northmanlogging (Aug 26, 2017)

We are around, but we're also busy and need cash


----------



## chucker (Aug 26, 2017)

Elon Cook said:


> Do any authentic, working gyppo loggers still exist? Or anyone that used to be one who still lives that lifestyle? I am doing a television documentary on loggers and want to find a real deal gyppo if such thing still exists.


!! more "reality tv" confusion with the drama of past tries to show the real workings of the hard working logger man! !"GOOD LUCK" !!


----------



## bitzer (Aug 26, 2017)

Remember when that film student lady came in here asking all kinds of questions and wasting all kinds of time? I'm pretty sure that was just Yukon John messing around.


----------



## chucker (Aug 26, 2017)

keeps people on their toe's I guess>??


----------



## bitzer (Aug 26, 2017)

Seeing this thread made me think of it. I've been trying to get handsome Mike back in the fold here. I reached out to him and got his email just before I got permanently banned from that other place. It's definitely the third Reich over there.


----------



## chucker (Aug 26, 2017)

"F.f." I am guessing? lol


----------



## bitzer (Aug 28, 2017)

Yep. No cussing or talking bad about anything remotely controversial over there. And you definitely don't want to question the mods or the owner's methods or reasons if you want to stay on there. The owner gets really bent out of shape in a hurry and takes things to a personal level real quick. There's a few decent guys over there but most of em are bore cutting queens and all day equipment operators that don't know how to run a saw.


----------



## chucker (Aug 28, 2017)

bitzer said:


> Yep. No cussing or talking bad about anything remotely controversial over there. And you definitely don't want to question the mods or the owner's methods or reasons if you want to stay on there. The owner gets really bent out of shape in a hurry and takes things to a personal level real quick. There's a few decent guys over there but most of em are bore cutting queens and all day equipment operators that don't know how to run a saw.


true that .. shared a few words with the owner/king guru over there and his kingdom of peasant's or is that pheasant's..... lol


----------



## bitzer (Aug 28, 2017)

chucker said:


> true that .. shared a few words with the owner/king guru over there and his kingdom of peasant's or is that pheasant's..... lol


Yep there's a lot of because I said so. I felt like I was 16 and my dad was hollering at me. When I'm talking about work I like to get a little colorful cuz gosh darn golly gee just doesn't cut it sometimes.


----------



## chucker (Aug 28, 2017)

bitzer said:


> Yep there's a lot of because I said so. I felt like I was 16 and my dad was hollering at me. When I'm talking about work I like to get a little colorful cuz gosh darn golly gee just doesn't cut it sometimes.


? what can I say .... by gosh by gum by golly gee, sometimes I am right there with or with out you! lol BTW. I forgot "CRAP"?


----------



## northmanlogging (Aug 28, 2017)

If every one, and I mean everyone can stop using Gosh, I'd be mighty happy...

****ing werd makes me want to hurt people in bad way... just say Gawd Damnit like an adult and get over it.


----------



## northmanlogging (Aug 28, 2017)

Though the sight you folks is talking about was kinda fun thinking of other just as offensive words to use in place of the classic 7, and if you need help with an old skidder theys the guys to talk to...

but fer fallin timber and getting some production don't bother.


----------



## chucker (Aug 28, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> If every one, and I mean everyone can stop using Gosh, I'd be mighty happy...
> 
> ****ing werd makes me want to hurt people in bad way... just say Gawd Damnit like an adult and get over it.


ahu fudge! and here I thought you would say something interesting... lol


----------



## Joe46 (Sep 18, 2017)

Haven't been over there in I don't know how long? There was one chowderhead who I think worked in a bucket truck. He was posting **** about the proper way to do things. Not even sure I have the site bookmarked anymore?


----------

