# Rope safe splicing lubricant?



## Ghillie (Mar 30, 2009)

I just started splicing over the weekend. Did a double braid and three 16 strand eye splices.

My question is, is there any lubricant that is recommended for splicing tight ropes?

My 16 strand eyes took about 45 minutes without whipping, which I don't think is bad, but curiosity has gotten the better of me.


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## moray (Mar 31, 2009)

I've been using liquid hand soap on the tight splices with very good results. When the splice is done, I wash the splice really well with plain water till the soap is gone.


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## pdqdl (Mar 31, 2009)

I would suspect that lubricant would make it harder to hang on to. It might make it harder to splice. At least with soap, you could wash it off. 

Try electricians wire pulling lubricant or tire repair soap. Pretty cheap, but not as cheap as dish soap. Almost no foaming. They are both obscenely slick, and they wash off with water, too.

I haven't done any 16 strand, but my double braid splices started out very tight, then they got easy for some reason. 

Practice?

I suspect that is because I understood the splice better, and learned how to generate slack in the cover at the right places.


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## Ghillie (Apr 1, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I would suspect that lubricant would make it harder to hang on to. It might make it harder to splice. At least with soap, you could wash it off.
> 
> Try electricians wire pulling lubricant or tire repair soap. Pretty cheap, but not as cheap as dish soap. Almost no foaming. They are both obscenely slick, and they wash off with water, too.
> 
> ...



Practice, practice and more practice! 

Yep, the first one was the toughest and then when I knew what to look for and what was going wrong, it got easier.

I've used "rim ease" before. Yep it is slick stuff, but I am not sure if I want it in my rope.

I am not really looking for something to save time, more to save the physical effort and chance of my snare braking and me wacking my elbows.


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## Ghillie (Apr 1, 2009)

moray said:


> I've been using liquid hand soap on the tight splices with very good results. When the splice is done, I wash the splice really well with plain water till the soap is gone.



Thanks for the suggestion, that is what I was thinking about using. I just wondered if anyone else was using something like it.

And thanks for the snare idea with 12 ga. wire. I saw your picture of yours in an earlier thread.

I ended up doubling the wire completely, I had trouble with the solder joint breaking in the splice and tearing up the core. I still soldered the whole length to keep it from wedging fibers between the gap in the wires.

Works great.


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## mpapuga (Apr 1, 2009)

Try Ballistol, it's a good lubricant for throw lines that have lost their "slickness" also.
http://www.ballistol.com/product_Lubricant.htm

Mark


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## pdqdl (Apr 1, 2009)

It probably would lubricate real well. On the other hand, I suspect it might not rinse off in water.

That would be a problem on a splice that relies on friction to work.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 1, 2009)

Any pics Gillie?


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## Ghillie (Apr 1, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> It probably would lubricate real well. On the other hand, I suspect it might not rinse off in water.
> 
> That would be a problem on a splice that relies on friction to work.



I agree. If I decide to use anything on the rope, it will have to wash off easily.

I am not sure which rope I would need the lubricant on either. I would have to weigh the time saved in the splice with the time it would take to clean the splice of the lubricant.


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## Ghillie (Apr 1, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Any pics Gillie?



I can take some pics of the final product but I have run out of rope to splice (16 strand at least).

My wire fid I made from Moray's pictures I gave it away yesterday. I helped a buddy with some dock lines for his sailboat and he loved the fid. I need to make another one that is a little longer in length anyway.

I hope to order some more rope this week (splicing is addictive!!) and make a new lanyard, a couple of spare splittails, an adjustable friction saver and a few other doodads.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 1, 2009)

Final product. As you're doing it. Doesn't matter. I like the idea of splicing my own lines. Seems like it would open up a new world of possibilities. Just not sure I have the patience for it. Maybe a few pics of your progress would motivate me. Either way, well done.


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## Ghillie (Apr 1, 2009)

Here you go Blakes, these are the three 16 strand eye splices I did monday, averaged 45 minutes on these without the whip lock.


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## Ghillie (Apr 1, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Final product. As you're doing it. Doesn't matter. I like the idea of splicing my own lines. Seems like it would open up a new world of possibilities. Just not sure I have the patience for it. Maybe a few pics of your progress would motivate me. Either way, well done.



If you can get past the learning curve it opens up a lot of possibilities.

It took me about 25' of rope and 6 hours Sunday night to get my technique down.

I have some projects in mind and I will try to document them with pictures and start a thread for criticism and review by my peers.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 2, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Here you go Blakes, these are the three 16 strand eye splices I did monday, averaged 45 minutes on these without the whip lock.



Man, this sucks. Your pics aren't workin' on my 'puter. Thanks for the effort boss, maybe if I log on during a down time they'll load. I doubt it's your problem my computer's ready for the bone yard.


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## pdqdl (Apr 3, 2009)

Yep. You got no pics posted.


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## Ghillie (Apr 3, 2009)

HMMMMMMMMM....

Let's try this again.












Can you see it now?


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## pdqdl (Apr 3, 2009)

I presume those are the 16 strand splices. They look very good. I'd swing from them.

If any of those are double braid, they should be lock stitched differently. All my double braids look a lot wider and tighter at the insertion point, due to the amount of material involved.

Pretty whipping, though.


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## Ghillie (Apr 3, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I presume those are the 16 strand splices. They look very good. I'd swing from them.
> 
> If any of those are double braid, they should be lock stitched differently. All my double braids look a lot wider and tighter at the insertion point, due to the amount of material involved.
> 
> Pretty whipping, though.



Yes, 16 strand. I matched up the lock stitch (location) to what came from Sherrill on the other end of the XTC spark (top rope, not pictured). They are in the last part of the tapered section.

It is hard to imagine there is no longer the parallel core strands in the rope from the insertion point up the rope 22". It is just the sheathe re-inserted and overlapped with the core again from 22" to 33". But once you know what to look for, you can feel each part of the taper and where the core and sheath overlap in the bury. And once you realize that the sheath is the primary load bearing component of 16 strand, the core is there to keep the rope round under load, it makes sense.

Like I said before, it took a while to get my technique down but when I did, it all came together nicely. Those are my 2nd 3rd and 4th splices, ever. First was on double braid with a tubular fid (not shown).

Edit in red, thanks PDQDL


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## pdqdl (Apr 3, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> [parts deleted for brevity]
> 
> ... And once you realize that the core is the primary load bearing component of 16 strand, the core is there to keep the rope round under load, it makes sense.
> 
> ...



I think you mis-spoke? I believe 16 strand is cover dependent, not core dependent rope.

Some kernmantle ropes, Bee Line, and quite a few others have all the strength in the core. The cover is just there to protect the core, I guess. If a double braid rope, you will find instructions for those splices under double braid class II.


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## Ghillie (Apr 3, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I think you mis-spoke? I believe 16 strand is cover dependent, not core dependent rope.
> 
> Some kernmantle ropes, Bee Line, and quite a few others have all the strength in the core. The cover is just there to protect the core, I guess. If a double braid rope, you will find instructions for those splices under double braid class II.



You are correct, I as going to cite the difference in kernmantle being 80% core strength and 20% sheath strength (by some sources). That's what was in my mind when I typed it. Thanks for the correction. That is a big mistake!

What are you referring to with the double braid class II?


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## pdqdl (Apr 3, 2009)

Some of the extremely strong double braid ropes have a different material in the core than they do in the cover. Like the some of the kernmantle ropes, the fibers in the core are where all the strength in the rope is located. They use a different technique than a class I splice.

A class I double braid eye splice tucks the cover inside the core (in a reversed direction), and then pulls all the core back through the eye, so that the eye is doubled up inside, and both core and cover are locked into the load.

A class II double braid eye splice is not much fancier than a 12 braid splice: you just stuff the core back into itself and lock stitch it together. If you are getting fancy, you whip the cover down where the core is re-inserted into itself. The distance that must be inserted is pretty long, making any eye-to-eye prussic ropes uselessly too long, unless you use a different technique. As JPS mentioned in another thread, the spliced eye-to-eye prussics ropes are too stiff to use close to the eyes for a friction knot.

Sherrill refused to give me splicing instructions for some Bee Line I bought. Others here on AS helped me out with additional instructions not included in my splicing books. They suggested putting "a Brummel" into the eye, and shortening the inserted length of core. They then skip using the cover on the eye, and leave the core exposed. Moray was doing some testing on those a while back, I'll be looking those up when I get around to it.

I haven't tried that yet. I'm still working on my splicing techniques too.


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## Ghillie (Apr 3, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Some of the extremely strong double braid ropes have a different material in the core than they do in the cover. Like the some of the kernmantle ropes, the fibers in the core are where all the strength in the rope is located. They use a different technique than a class I splice.
> 
> A class I double braid eye splice tucks the cover inside the core (in a reversed direction), and then pulls all the core back through the eye, so that the eye is doubled up inside, and both core and cover are locked into the load.
> 
> ...



Aha. Now I see what you were talking about.

What defines the class I and class II and how many classes are there.

Rich H. (at the climbing class last weekend) gave me a number of a guy near me that might be able (read willing) to take a lot of time off my learning curve on splicing. I hope to get ahold of him soon but I want to have an idea of what I want to ask him first. It is not just as simple as saying "teach me to splice", but you already know that.

I came across your thread about the beeline while looking for a solution to my 16 strand problem of getting the cover overlapped with the core in the bury. Actually I came across a few threads that I put in my favorites to read and reread.

I haven't switched (or tried) the newer climbing hitches and am still using a blakes, but I am going to try a floating bridge saddle next week. I am trying to change one thing at a time, and teach two guys that work for me how to climb also. Makes sense to me to start them out on the blakes until they get comfortable in the saddle and then work on some of the more gear intensive systems.


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## moray (Apr 3, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Yes, 16 strand. I matched up the lock stitch (location) to what came from Sherrill on the other end of the XTC spark (top rope, not pictured). *They are in the last part of the tapered section*...



First of all, Ghillie, those are some gorgeous splices! And you're starting off with 16 strand, which in my book is really tough to work with. 

One good thing about 16 strand is that the splice throat is already so tight that stitching the splice is largely or completely unnecessary. Good thing, because unless I have misread your post, you have the stitching in the wrong place. There are two jobs the stitching is supposed to do: (1) hold the splice together while it is rattling around in your truck or your dog is playing with it, and (2) supply the equivalent of some initial squeeze force right at the throat of the splice. Both of these functions of stitching become vital when you're dealing with 12-strand hollow braid (like Tenex or Ice Tail). A Tenex splice will readily fall apart if not stitched, and a highly unsymmetrical load on the eye can pull the core right out. Stitching towards the end of the taper would do little or nothing to stop this, whereas even very light stitching near the throat will render the splice completely safe even against large unsymmetrical loads.

If you visit the Samson web site, you will find the distinction between Class I and Class II splices has to do with the material. Class II applies to the new high-strength fibers like Vectran, Technora, and HMWPE. The "standard" fibers like nylon, polyester, and polypropylene are Class I. Generally speaking, you need longer buries for the high-strength fibers.

Keep splicing and posting--this is great stuff!


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## Ghillie (Apr 3, 2009)

moray said:


> First of all, Ghillie, those are some gorgeous splices! And you're starting off with 16 strand, which in my book is really tough to work with.
> 
> One good thing about 16 strand is that the splice throat is already so tight that stitching the splice is largely or completely unnecessary. Good thing, because unless I have misread your post, you have the stitching in the wrong place. There are two jobs the stitching is supposed to do: (1) hold the splice together while it is rattling around in your truck or your dog is playing with it, and (2) supply the equivalent of some initial squeeze force right at the throat of the splice. Both of these functions of stitching become vital when you're dealing with 12-strand hollow braid (like Tenex or Ice Tail). A Tenex splice will readily fall apart if not stitched, and a highly unsymmetrical load on the eye can pull the core right out. Stitching towards the end of the taper would do little or nothing to stop this, whereas even very light stitching near the throat will render the splice completely safe even against large unsymmetrical loads.
> 
> ...



Thanks Moray. Nothing like going from double braid right to 16 strand! 

I followed Samson's instructions on the 16 strand class I eye splice but I could not find any information on where the whip and lock stitch should go on this splice. I assumed it should go near the throat (insertion point) but on the other end of the XTC spark (top rope in picture, factory splice not shown)was an eye that was spliced by sherrill. I used that splice to judge where the whip and lock stitch should go.

Thinking back now, might there be more stitching under the shrink wrapped splice tag? It was near the throat.

I felt down the "tapered section" (the 5 strand pairs that were cut and pulled) and it felt like they started the stitching at the 4th strand pair that they cut and pulled.

Is this not right? Did you read that I stitched at the end of the buried sheath? Or am I completely confusing myself and everyone that reads this?

BTW: thanks for the idea about the 12 ga wire fid, when I make a new one I will post a pic of what I came up with, and explain how what I thought was a mistake (pulled the fid out with the yarn snare still in the splice) made for a quicker splice in the end.


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## squad143 (Apr 4, 2009)

Nice job there Ghillie.


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