# another lucky wannabe-Wash, DC



## treeslayer (Apr 16, 2003)

*another lucky wannabe*

This was in todays Washington Post. 
I spoke with Alan Etter with the DCFD, he said the guy used a 35' aluminum ladder to get in the tree. Hired by a homeowner to clean up a tree growing over and through some power lines.
He was wearing spikes, a climbing belt and a lanyard, No rope. 
He climbed up off the ladder another 20' or so, and began pruning limbs out of the High Voltage lines.  

The story shows what we all know happened next.

Luckily he froze, with energized lines around him, and the FD was called. They plucked him out with an aerial ladder truck.

Luck was with this idiot.
Picture to follow.


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## treeslayer (Apr 16, 2003)

DCFD report.

April 15, 2003

Truck 3 Makes Aerial Rescue!

A 58-year-old tree-pruner has Truck 3 to thank for helping him escape serious injury. The man was cutting limbs off a tree in the back yard of a residence in the 2100 block of Bunker Hill Rd., NE when one of the branches caught two power lines as it fell. One line fell into the street while the other fell into brush in the back yard, igniting leaves, grass and several trash cans.

Engine 26 was dispatched at 10:51 for the report of wires down. When they arrived, they found the yard worker trapped about 50-feet up in the tree. The man was afraid to move out of fear of coming into contact with a power line. Truck 3 (which had been transferred to the quarters of Engine 26) arrived to begin the rescue.

Lt. RG Kowalczyk ordered the aerial ladder be extended to where the man was holding onto a branch. Firefighter Jack Adams climbed the ladder and helped the man onto the ladder, and then walked him down to safety. After a quick EMS consultation, the man was found to be in good health, and there was no need for hospitalization.

Units on the Alarm:	Engine 26, Truck 3, Rescue Squad 2, Medic 14, Battalion 1.


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## treeslayer (Apr 16, 2003)

Picture.


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## treeslayer (Apr 16, 2003)

look at the broken line.


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## Stumper (Apr 17, 2003)

It appears that "tree pruner" was a misleading description, but I'm glad he is okay.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 17, 2003)

Did not exactly look like a "trim" either.


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## murphy4trees (Apr 17, 2003)

When do the papers ever get the story right????
Not often in my experience...


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## NeTree (Apr 18, 2003)

Nice to see he escaped his brush with Darwininan selection; but what on earth was he thinking? 

Remember the thread a while back "experts, please help me cut these trees" , with the guy who asked our opinion on a tree removal near electric lines and got all ticked off cuz we told him to hire a professional? I hope wideopen sees this article and understands why we told him he wasn't anywhere near qualified.


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## Jumper (Apr 18, 2003)

If the City started to initiate cost recovery against cheapskate homeowners who cause this type of situation, perhaps word would get out that the least expensive solution is not necessarily the best. In my mind, the homeowner is as much an idiot as the pruner, and endangered the lifes of both the firemen and passerby in addition to the climber.


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## NeTree (Apr 18, 2003)

I'd have to agree, Jumper. The same can be said for alot of other things, too. Like backyard half-a$$ mechanics who do their own brakes, and then kill a carload of kids because they didn't do it right.


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## Stumper (Apr 19, 2003)

Netree and Jumper, easy now. What about all the competant part timers and dedicated amateurs?. IMNTBHO, we do NOT need more regulation. Laws about negligence etc. already exist. More regs don't insure safety, they just mess with people's freedoms. I know a guy with licenses and certificates who violates safety protocals all the time and has fallen out of trees twice. I also know of several people who dabble in our industry with no paperwork but, who implement good safety (and pruning) practices.

Netree, I don't doubt that someone has messed up a backyard brake job and had a serious accident, but what about all the accidents that were prevented by a back yard brake pad change when the driver couldn't afford a repair bill and would have just kept driving if Uncle Bob hadn't helped them out?-The unknowable.:angel:


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## NeTree (Apr 19, 2003)

Stumper, I'm referring more to those people who know they aren't competent and do stuff anyways. And I was agreeing to the latter part of Jumpers reply, "In my mind, the homeowner is as much an idiot as the pruner, and endangered the lifes of both the firemen and passerby in addition to the climber.".


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## Tim Gardner (Apr 19, 2003)

With the lack of knowledge the average homeowner possesses with regard to tree work he/she was most likely led to believe the climber was competent. Or maybe they were just trying to save a buck or two. A phone call to the power company would have most likely gotten the tree trimmed or removed free of charge though.


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## Jumper (Apr 19, 2003)

Ignorance of the law, or in this case ,proper hiring of someone to complete a hazardous task is no excuse in my books. This guy's age would have been the first warning sign for me. Nothing wrong with part timers and dedicted amateurs, but before I engaged someone in a like task around my house I would be asking for professional qualifications and references-trimming a small crabapple or a hedge is one thing, sending someone up a marginal looking tree 50 feet over power lines is another. I am not suggesting more regulation is the answer.


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## Tim Gardner (Apr 19, 2003)

Jumper, my father is in his sixties. Are you saying that his age would tip you off that he is incompetent to take this type of job on? Maybe you are right though, he only has 30+ years experience as a climber/owner.


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## Jumper (Apr 19, 2003)

I am saying someone of that age would cause me concern. It certainly would have no bearing on his capabilities as an owner, but most 58 year olds I have met are not up to this kind of work no matter what their climbing experience has been. Might talk a good story but.....On the other hand some 58 year olds can do this type of work and that is fine too. Prove it before I give you the job, which will keep us both out of the courts or worse, the funeral parlour.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 20, 2003)

Don't tell OX that, he's up in that range.


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## treeslayer (Apr 20, 2003)

At the sherrills store in wmsbg va a few years ago there were pictures of a guy named "Zed" who still climbing way up at the age of 83. he looked that old, but obviously fit as he11.
I would'nt want to butt heads with him....

I don't think age is as important as how you carry yourself.


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## mikecross23 (Apr 25, 2003)

I saw a picture of him just recently, can't remember where, but dang that dude is amazing! Me.... 24yrs old, wake up tired and sore after some hard days, can't imagine adding 59 yrs to my life and even thinking about hiking up a tree!!!

To keep things on topic. . .
My city seems pretty helpful when power lines are involved. Home boy should have looked into it. Luckily he lived, hopefully he learned, and I'll just keep reading the injury/fatality forums and maybe keep the skin on my @ss! 

-Mike-


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## geofore (May 5, 2003)

*lucky*

A part of paying your electric bill goes to pay the tree trimmers to do this hazzardous work around electric lines and all homeowners should call the electric company first. They have guys who do this for a living, day in and day out. It blows me away every time I see this kind of thing when the electric company would have sent a crew out to take care of the hazzardous tree as part of their maintenance program to keep the public (homeowner) safe. What was this guy thinking?


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## koyaanisqatsi (May 8, 2003)

*Joe Homeowner?*

I have to tell you all that it's tiresome to see you criticize the fictitious "Joe Homeowner" trying to deal with a problem tree. You often tell tales of stopping to save some misguided soul from certain injury or death. This may be a good thing to do if it is not merely profit driven. But, you then drive to your worksite and promptly get yourself or one of your co-workers killed. These people seem to be doing something they think they can handle, but can't. How many times has that happened to you pros? You had someone to bail you out. As for me, I intend to learn everything I can before/if I climb and at some point I may need someone to get me out of a tough spot.

You come across as a bit elitist. So I'll simply point out that you are mortal and you make tragic mistakes yourselves. The people I work with don't come across as elitiist, but rather as very hard working people, concerned with each others safety and well-being, careful, and talented people. Perhaps some self- examination is in order here on your part. 

The subject individual of this thread survived. So many "professionals" don't survive or end up so severely injured that they can never work again. Keep that in mind when you work.

TIA,
Pete


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## TREETX (May 9, 2003)

Yeah, I stop and give homeowners FREE advise when I see them trying to make widows and orphans because I seek a profit. SURE!! This is a get rich quick job.

It is a labor of love or some of the most thankless work on the face of the earth.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 9, 2003)

I've stopped and offerd to do the work on time so they can clean up.


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## koyaanisqatsi (May 10, 2003)

*Last Word*

Flames deleted

Good idea Pete, please keep this childish tit-for-tat put-down stuff off the open board.

Many of us have grown weary of it long ago.


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## geofore (May 11, 2003)

*Mythic Homeowner*

My advice stands to Joe Homeowner, call the Electric company, even I do that to save wear and tear on me. Sometimes they will remove the tree and sometimes they will only clear anything within 8' of the powerline. Most often the call is to have them drop the powerline to the house so the powerline is not live and in the way as the work is done. As Treetx said "professionals" know about safety issues. It does not make you less of a professional to make the call the homeowner could have made but didn't. How many Joe homeowners know what the Electric company will do if asked? The advice here is to save a life not make money. Anyone who has been doing tree work for years will have been called to finish a job some Joe Homeowner started but could not finish because he was injured while trying to do tree work or waited until he dropped a tree on his garage or house before he called you to come fix the mess.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 11, 2003)

Besides, many people wioll appreciate it if you save them some money.

Pro's do stupid things too from time to time. 

I feel this guy should be charged for the rescue service. If he does not have insurance then the homeowner should be liable because they hired an uninsured comapny. There is presidance, one could file suit agains the owner in a personal injury case. 

Why should the public as a whole shoulder the responsibility for the rescue of a underskilled worked that a person hired probably as a low bidder.

Pete, I have stopped and offerd to help people I've seen working unsafe. I would have problems living with myself if I read later that that person died from a falling or struck-by accident.


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## treeguy347 (May 14, 2003)

Yes, professionals do get hurt. As was mentioned, the professionals tend to be much more aware of the proper methods for going about their work. I just got called in to finish removing 4 large black oaks because the contractors regular tree guy had his leg broken by a barber-chair. I would like to see some statistics regarding injuries per man-hour for professionals compared to homeowners. Tree care professionals are exposed to the danger much much more than a weekend warrior homeowner. I'd bet my company that professionals have a much lower rate of injuries per hours worked than homeowners. I don't see why so many people have such a hard time just hiring a true tree service to just do the work for them. I don't know how to do an irrigation system, so that's why I call a friend of mine who is a landscaper; on the flipside, he had no clue how to safely remove a 26" pine that was 10' from powerlines and a home with a driveway beneath it that had to be saved, so he called me.


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## koyaanisqatsi (May 14, 2003)

*Re: another lucky wannabe-Wash, DC/Outsider's Perspective*

You make a good point. I don't know the statistics Professional vs. Homeowner on a per work hour basis. It's seems likely that the Professional would have a much lower injury and accident rate. But since they tend to tackle much more difficult jobs than most sensible homeowners would, I'm not sure.

Most homeowners know when they are in over their head and don't attempt to do the work. But, it's often not a matter of "saving money" but rather just not having money or something to trade (as you did) to have the work done by a pro. What do you do when you just don't have the money to have a pro do the work? I can't answer that question other than "try to do it yourself". The homeowner noted in this thread was apparently unaware that the power company would handle the work for him, but all they probably would do is clear the limbs away from the power lines. If the house is threatened by the tree, that is his problem to deal with, and if he can't pay, what is he to do?

About three years ago, a friend of mine wanted to fell a cherry tree in his yard. He's a lawyer, very intelligent and could pay but he wanted to do it himself I guess. His chain saw was on the fritz, so he took an axe to the tree. Apparently, he either tired or became impatient. So, he placed a *splitting wedge* where he had been chopping and gave it a hard wack with a maul. The wedge flew back and hit him in the mouth--he lost some teeth and was cut pretty bad, but survived. About two years ago, that same friend, who is also an avid gardener, stumbled and fell in front of his roto-tiller. He has a big garden and no doubt has a big roto-tiller. He got chewed up badly and was out of action for some time, but survived. I consider this acccident to be the rough equivalent of a chipper accident. Either accident could have been fatal had the circumstances been just a little different.

On the pro side, during a recent short stint with a Tree Service Company, we were removing an extremely large branch. The climber rigged and cut off a large section of that branch. It swung down away from the house, then swung back into the house--it was big enough that it could not be stopped by me, but should have been dropped by the ropeman, before it hit the house--judgement call. The house was brick, so no damage was done--but it could have. Last Friday, at work site, I looked over to see the person operating the chipper. I keep checking on other workers to make sure they are OK or don't otherwise need help [ I watch out for myself too ;-) ]. Well, he or someone had just fed a fairly large 8" diameter log with a "dog-leg" into the feeding chute. He was standing to the right side as he should have been, but when the chipper started to slow, he stuck his head way around not into the chute but well in it's path. At the same time, that log popped up and slammed hard against the top of the feeding chute--missed his head by about a foot I'd estimate, which is was too close by my standards. He should have known better--he almost certainly would have been badly injured, possibly kiled by the force of the impact. He has only a month on the job, so he's not a real veteran yet. Our 1/2 hour safety meeting at the Tree Company lasted 5 minutes, and was basically material I'd already read from Jeff Jepson's book. The meeting addressed you what to look out for when planning to climb and/or fell a tree: conks, mushrooms at the base of the tree, splits in branches,.....you know the drill here. But they did not at all address what precautions should be taken to address these issues. They had time to talk about some precautions, but they didn't bother to do so. Perhaps, they wanted us to call another tree company to handle a tree with these types of problems ;-) . I saw the pros make a few minor mistakes, most likely to result in some property damage or minor injury rather than serious injury or death--loose bricks or stones on steps to access the work site. I'd point it out to the forman and place a cone over the loose material so people would go around th hazard. The cone would often be moved by someone who did not ask why it was there as they should have. Cones are placed for a reason.

One last point that will no doubt offend many--that appears to be my greatest talent as a poster here. Sadly, all the Tree Service Companies I've contacted and/or dealt with seemed to be fly-by-night, unprofessional oufits, even when they were large companies. Office managers often seem more than a little disingenuous with me and I assume with others--he either just lied or had problems giving staff bad news thinking he was saving them from discomfort. I chose not to rock the boat. But, I assume most of you are honest hard-working people. The field workers were great: helpful, supportive, worked well together, took some time to show you how to do things. When you work as hard as they do, it's not easy to angry at anything, so all got along just fine.

Hard work? Yep, but I loved it.

Pete


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## geofore (May 16, 2003)

*Home owners*

Most home owners don't know that by just asking for coverage on their trees their ins. co. will add it to there policy for little or no charge. Mine has a $500 deductable and covers up to $1,000 per tree after that for tree work. I got it because I asked for it. Most home owners don't know to ask. A tree guy should know enough to ask for it, a home owner would not, they might insure their car, jewelry or paintings and forget about those beautiful trees that enhance the value of their property. They don't think they need flood ins. until their house is under water and they don't call their ins guy and ask until the tree is on top of their house, car or garage.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 16, 2003)

Just like anything else attached to the property, the trees are "real property", and cv


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## TREETX (May 23, 2003)

Joe Homeowner

The guy who lives in the house behind me who I would describe as an acquaintance, not a friend, got hurt doing tree work a week ago at his parent's house.

He asked me to go there (40 miles) and check it out and see what it would cost to help them out. I selfishly thought, "Whatever dude, I have enough work for half price for the neighbor jobs and I don't drive 80 mile unless cash is involved."

Same old story, piecing down a big oak and then a log rolled over the ladder he was standing on. Landed on his head. Good thing he is young and flexible. A little bruised.

Made me think about helping a bit more.


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## koyaanisqatsi (May 23, 2003)

*Helping Joe Homeowner*

TREETX:

You just can't help everybody. There are a lot more Joe Homeowners than tree experts. Do what you can (within reason) to prevent someone getting hurt, but you can't do it all. This "friend" could have got some quotes from tree service companies more local to him.

It always feels good to help neighbors and friends. But I would never ask a friend for help in an area that is his/her line of work w/o expecting to pay full price. That's how you make you're living and it seems unfair to do otherwise. On other things, I might ask for a helping hand from friends. I offer something in return for that help. But not that many people need a computer program written ;-) ! Anybody who does should let me know.

I'm glad he's OK.

Pete


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