# Skip chain vs. full comp



## JoshF (Jan 25, 2011)

Now I know that some people wont agree with me and I am not trying to start a fight. 
I have a 25 on my 460 and have ran it with both. Both full chisel. I dont find a difference in cut speed or do I think that the full skip pulls any easier. I like the skip because it sharpens faster. On a full comp chain, not every cutter cuts every time around anyway. Let me know what you think, im still very open to other ideas.
Josh


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 25, 2011)

If ya ran both then run what your happy with. What always cracks me up is people who dont try both and ask over and over wich chain should I use..


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## chowdozer (Jan 25, 2011)

IMO there isn't a lot of benefit to running a 25 on a 460 with skip unless you you bought a roll for your longer bars. You could put an 8 pin on the 25 or bump that up to a 28 or 32.


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## tlandrum (Jan 25, 2011)

the only benifit to skip on a 25 is not having to sharpen so many teeth but i bet if you time a cut with skip and full comp the full comp will be faster


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## 2dogs (Jan 25, 2011)

Whatever chain feels right to you, then go for it.


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 26, 2011)

chowdozer said:


> IMO there isn't a lot of benefit to running a 25 on a 460 with skip unless you you bought a roll for your longer bars. You could put an 8 pin on the 25 or bump that up to a 28 or 32.


 
Great point definately go 8 pin with full skip.


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## splitpost (Jan 26, 2011)

JoshF said:


> Now I know that some people wont agree with me and I am not trying to start a fight.
> I have a 25 on my 460 and have ran it with both. Both full chisel. I dont find a difference in cut speed or do I think that the full skip pulls any easier. I like the skip because it sharpens faster. On a full comp chain, not every cutter cuts every time around anyway. Let me know what you think, im still very open to other ideas.
> Josh


 
Use whatever your needs dictate or you feel is better ,but what do you mean by thisOn a full comp chain, not every cutter cuts every time around anyway.


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## BobL (Jan 26, 2011)

splitpost said:


> Use whatever your needs dictate or you feel is better ,but what do you mean by thisOn a full comp chain, not every cutter cuts every time around anyway.


 
On a full comp CS chain not every cutter passing through a kerf is biting it's full quota of wood. For every cutter that's got wood there are one or two trailing cutters that are not cutting as much or even no wood. As soon as one cutter bites wood it rocks on it's raker and starts to lift off the bar slightly increasing forward chain tension. The cutter that has wood then continues to bite and rock and rises off the bar until the forward chain tension overcomes the wood bite and snaps the cutter back down to the bar, tearing out a chip. The cutters immediately behind this cutter cannot grab as much wood as that leading cutter because the leading cutter has already taken some of that wood out of the kerf. The chain in effect porpoises off the bar in 2-3-4 cutter long waves. Only one cutter in each wave is trailing tearing it's max amount of wood and the others are cutting much less or even none. 

Skip sharpens faster but I also find it goes blunt quicker. This is really noticeable when milling Aussie hardwood. With full comp chains for my 42" bar I cut ~32 sq ft (that's ~ 9 ft x 3.5 ft cut) before I have to sharpen. With skip chain I only get about 20 sq ft of cut which means I'd have to pull the CS mill out of the same cut to sharpen, or over work the saw for the last 12 sq ft of cut. When I use the 60" bar with a full comp chain I get about 45 sq ft of cut before sharpening. All this is much less noticeable when milling softer hardwoods or softwoods.

In really wide cuts it's quite noticeable that skip does take a bit of load off the powerhead but it still needs to be touched up more often. A similar argument can be applied to; chisel v semi and; sq v round grinds.


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## hmmach1 (Jan 26, 2011)

I've run both on my 372xp with 24 and there is almost no difference in timed cuts either, so i run the skip just for ease of sharpening. Don't feel there is any difference in life span because one dose not dull any faster than the other, so the same amount is filed of the teeth the same number of times either way. Just my 2 cents.


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## MCW (Jan 26, 2011)

I've run skip even down to a 20" bar on a modified Makita 7901. Compared to full comp there isn't much in it. I know a few firewood cutters that swear by skip semi chisel on a 25" bar on their 660's.
I generally only start using skip at 32" bars or above but certainly won't hold it against anybody using skip on shorter bars. I have a few loops in my collection for 20" bars and have no problem grabbing one if I need a fresh chain.


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## Cliff R (Jan 26, 2011)

Recently I bought a 30" bar for my 181SE and it came with a skip-tooth chain. I really don't like it as the saw has more than enough power to run it, and I find myself "pushing" the saw a bit, even with the bar buried in hardwood. I sharpened the chain and dropped the rakers just a tad, but it's still not making it.

It either needs a larger drive sprocket, or full comp chain.....Cliff


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## MCW (Jan 26, 2011)

Cliff R said:


> Recently I bought a 30" bar for my 181SE and it came with a skip-tooth chain. I really don't like it as the saw has more than enough power to run it, and I find myself "pushing" the saw a bit, even with the bar buried in hardwood. I sharpened the chain and dropped the rakers just a tad, but it's still not making it.
> 
> It either needs a larger drive sprocket, or full comp chain.....Cliff



Drop the rakers even more as it should cut pretty well


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## thejdman04 (Jan 26, 2011)

It all depends on what type of wood your cutting etc run what makes you happy.


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## JoshF (Jan 26, 2011)

Wow you guys sure gave me some reading material. Bobl, thanks. I got home from work tonight and was reading the posts and saw that question. I knew what I wanted to say but wasn't sure how to say in words. You explained it marvelously. I personally like skip chains on 25 and up only because I hand file and touch my chains up after each tank of gas. So it makes a big difference.
Josh


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## wyk (Jan 27, 2011)

On my 372xp and 046 the skip noodles noticably better and keeps the revs up better while buried. I also feel you can dog the saw more with skip before it bogs while buried, and it seems to cut a tad faster under pressure than full comp. I also think it runs smoother and produces larger chips when running square tooth. Add to this the fact it is faster to sharpen, and I don't really see a reason to use anything else.



MCW said:


> I've run skip even down to a 20" bar on a modified Makita 7901. Compared to full comp there isn't much in it. I know a few firewood cutters that swear by skip semi chisel on a 25" bar on their 660's.
> I generally only start using skip at 32" bars or above but certainly won't hold it against anybody using skip on shorter bars. I have a few loops in my collection for 20" bars and have no problem grabbing one if I need a fresh chain.


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## splitpost (Jan 27, 2011)

BobL said:


> On a full comp CS chain not every cutter passing through a kerf is biting it's full quota of wood. For every cutter that's got wood there are one or two trailing cutters that are not cutting as much or even no wood. As soon as one cutter bites wood it rocks on it's raker and starts to lift off the bar slightly increasing forward chain tension. The cutter that has wood then continues to bite and rock and rises off the bar until the forward chain tension overcomes the wood bite and snaps the cutter back down to the bar, tearing out a chip. The cutters immediately behind this cutter cannot grab as much wood as that leading cutter because the leading cutter has already taken some of that wood out of the kerf. The chain in effect porpoises off the bar in 2-3-4 cutter long waves. Only one cutter in each wave is trailing tearing it's max amount of wood and the others are cutting much less or even none.
> 
> Skip sharpens faster but I also find it goes blunt quicker. This is really noticeable when milling Aussie hardwood. With full comp chains for my 42" bar I cut ~32 sq ft (that's ~ 9 ft x 3.5 ft cut) before I have to sharpen. With skip chain I only get about 20 sq ft of cut which means I'd have to pull the CS mill out of the same cut to sharpen, or over work the saw for the last 12 sq ft of cut. When I use the 60" bar with a full comp chain I get about 45 sq ft of cut before sharpening. All this is much less noticeable when milling softer hardwoods or softwoods.
> 
> In really wide cuts it's quite noticeable that skip does take a bit of load off the powerhead but it still needs to be touched up more often. A similar argument can be applied to; chisel v semi and; sq v round grinds.


 
Thanks for the explanation Bob,sorta figured that not all cutters were cutting full on bites at wood,
but never really thought it would get to the stage where cutters would do nothing ,learn something new all the time,THANKS


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 29, 2011)

*can get video up from utube*

MS880 with 36'' Carlton chains first two cuts are full comp,next two are skip,both are 3/8 .063 full chisel chains,check out the noodles at the end.

[video=youtube;v50ke7JMhvw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v50ke7JMhvw[/video]


:smile::smile:


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## wyk (Jan 29, 2011)

Love that vid. Here's my MS361, running rich, noodling 12X16 or so douglas fir with a 20" full skip square ground chisel chain - you want to go to about :50, :

YouTube - Noodlin with the MS361 STHL

- and if you guys want to be babies, feel free to complain about my checking the chain slack with my gloved left hand with my other hand on the top handle - the dead man switch on this ms361 was fully functional. And anyone that says an MS361 can't pull a 20" bar must be only cutting hard as rock oak all day long. It flies through fir when buried. I can easily use a 24" on this for felling and bucking fir. My 372 and 046 absolutely slice through 36" fir and pine like butter, and it still has great BTU's for firewood.


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