# Can you fit a full cord in a pickup box?



## Red97 (Dec 15, 2014)

A full std cord is 4x4x8 correct? I chopped a couple limb off of a field oak and I think I am close to 3/4 cord in this load.




Does that sound about right?

This is my 2nd season of burning I am trying to keep track of wood used this year.

Thank you
Joe


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## farmer steve (Dec 15, 2014)

looks about right stacked in there if thats an 8 ft. bed.


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## Red97 (Dec 15, 2014)

Sorry, It is a 8ft bed.


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## farmer steve (Dec 15, 2014)

3/4 cord in that truck sounds about right. iv'e stacked a cord in an 8 ft bed already but it's over the roof and the thing is way overloaded.


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## svk (Dec 15, 2014)

farmer steve said:


> 3/4 cord in that truck sounds about right. iv'e stacked a cord in an 8 ft bed already but it's over the roof and the thing is way overloaded.


It shouldn't be stacked that high to get a full cord. 

4x4x8=128 cu ft

Pickup truck is about 5.5 wide

5.5x8 times X=128. X=2.9 feet. 

Stack it a little higher to make up for the wheel wells and slope of the interior sides.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

I can't get a full cord on mine without racks. I figure 5 feet (inside of the bed rails) by 7 1/2 feet (I always have a gap at the tailgate). If I'm careful, about 3/4 of a cord. With my cab high racks, well over a cord. Glad it's a one ton, I would have destroyed a flanged axle by now.


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## svk (Dec 15, 2014)

BeatCJ said:


> I can't get a full cord on mine without racks. I figure 5 feet (inside of the bed rails) by 7 1/2 feet (I always have a gap at the tailgate). If I'm careful, about 3/4 of a cord. With my cab high racks, well over a cord. Glad it's a one ton, I would have destroyed a flanged axle by now.



That's a good point. 

There's definitely something to be said about loading to what the truck should carry versus what it can carry.


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 15, 2014)

I'm pretty sure I can get 1.5 cords in my truck and it handles it just fine!


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

I suspect the OP considered that, since his photo shows a DRW truck. I remember the other truck he showed a load of wood in, it may or may not have had a full floating axle. Makes a huge difference. I hate seeing half tons on the freeway with an empty hole in the end of the axle housing.


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## zogger (Dec 15, 2014)

svk said:


> That's a good point.
> 
> There's definitely something to be said about loading to what the truck should carry versus what it can carry.



I was asking my boss about this, he's had numerous trucks over the years. At his shop/store/warehouse in town, he sells some farm chemicals that are palletized. He said he loads on some guys trucks, two, one ton loads and they squat and drive away. I said I wouldn't do that in a regular truck, he agreed, but some guys do that. When he hauls big stuff like that for himself he uses the f450 flatbed dump.

I know I am not gonna overload the trucks I have, I might push it a scosh, say half ton rated, and put estimated 3/4 ton, but that's it. Proly shouldn't even do that, but just started hauling the other day and it's only a mile away.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

mn woodcutter said:


> I'm pretty sure I can get 1.5 cords in my truck and it handles it just fine!


Well... I have the same truck as in your Avatar. A full load of green Doug fir is lighter than my camper. A cord and a half, true measured volume would probably put me over my RAWR. But, I'm old and cautious.


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 15, 2014)

BeatCJ said:


> Well... I have the same truck as in your Avatar. A full load of green Doug fir is lighter than my camper. A cord and a half, true measured volume would probably put me over my RAWR. But, I'm old and cautious.


I'm sure it's more weight than my truck is rated for but like I said it handles it just fine. I'm running beefier springs and I'm not worried about the axle. Those big sterling axles are tough. Just make sure you have good breaks! When fully loaded I don't push it over 45 mph.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

zogger said:


> I know I am not gonna overload the trucks I have, I might push it a scosh, say half ton rated, and put estimated 3/4 ton, but that's it. Proly shouldn't even do that, but just started hauling the other day and it's only a mile away.


I push it too. Really, the most critical point of the system is different on every truck. Flanged axles on a half ton suffer from flexing at high speeds, and you end up with metal fatigue, and then a rear tire/wheel assembly goes left on the freeway. It bounces twice, and goes through the windshield of a bus full of nuns and schoolchildren going the opposite way, suddenly you're on national news. I dislike being on the news.


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## svk (Dec 15, 2014)

There's also a big difference if you are hauling it two miles down a dirt road or full bore down the highway.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

mn woodcutter said:


> When fully loaded I don't push it over 45 mph.


You're right. Speed matters, stopping is important, and Sterling's are underappreciated.


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## zogger (Dec 15, 2014)

BeatCJ said:


> I push it too. Really, the most critical point of the system is different on every truck. Flanges axles on a half ton suffer from flexing at high speeds, and you end up with metal fatigue, and then a rear tire/wheel assembly goes left on the freeway. It bounces twice, and goes through the windshield of a bus full of nuns and schoolchildren going the opposite way, suddenly you're on national news. I dislike being on the news.



Ya, I am switching to a farm trailer soon anyway. There's one I use but his other goofs are using it right now, so I loaded the truck up instead. 

I really want a nice cap and just haul the saws and gear in the truck and use the trailer for wood.


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## firebrick43 (Dec 15, 2014)

Most all axle shafts have flanges. The term your looking for is full floating(good) and semi floating(not as good). For those novices who don't understand 

A Full floating hub rides on bearings on the axle tube. The hub itself bolts to the wheels and the shaft bolts to the hub. The axle shaft only provides the torque to the wheels and carries no weight. 

A semi floating axle has no hub but just a flange that the wheel bolts to. The bearing is inside the axle tube that the shaft rides in. Shaft takes all abuse, twisting, weight, and shock loads. 

Nearly all 1/2 tons are semi floating. Some 3/4 ton trucks are semi and others are floating. Easy way of telling is look at the center of the back wheel. Does a hub come out(newer trucks mount a chrome cover)? If so it's full floating. I have never seen a 3500 with semifloating axles


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## Red97 (Dec 15, 2014)

Train


BeatCJ said:


> I suspect the OP considered that, since his photo shows a DRW truck. I remember the other truck he showed a load of wood in, it may or may not have had a full floating axle. Makes a huge difference. I hate seeing half tons on the freeway with an empty hole in the end of the axle housing.



My normal wood haulers are 1 ton duallys my newest one is getting injectors today. STD cab 1 ton duallys duramax and 4x4. Should be easier to get in the woods. The other truck your are talking about is my fun/ nice truck. It has a Dana 60 front with 1.5" outer shafts and a sterling 10.25 rear. And 1410 u joints top bottom front and rear driveshafts. Not worried about the drivetrain there. Now the springs are just half tons so she squats easy.


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## 2PPacker (Dec 15, 2014)

You would have to stack the wood tight and high to fit a face cord let alone a real full cord in an 8' pickup bed.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

Red97 said:


> It has a Dana 60 front with 1.5" outer shafts and a sterling 10.25 rear.



A Sterling in a Chevy? Holy cats, heads will spin.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 15, 2014)

2PPacker said:


> You would have to stack the wood tight and high to fit a face cord let alone a real full cord in an 8' pickup bed.


Define Face Cord. As I cut wood, a face cord would be just over a foot deep in the bed of my truck. 128 cubic feet to a cord, 4x4x8. 1/3 of that with 16" wood, 43 cubic feet. 5 feet wide, 8' long, 1 foot 2 inches deep. Easy stacking. I used to use a Toyota as my wood hauler, it was perfect for a "Face Cord".


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## 2PPacker (Dec 15, 2014)

A face cord is a stack 16' long x 4' tall, 18" - 20" long splits. There is no way to fit that much wood in a long bed without side rails.


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## woodchuck357 (Dec 15, 2014)

2PPacker said:


> A face cord is a stack 16' long x 4' tall, 18" - 20" long splits. There is no way to fit that much wood in a long bed without side rails.


Wrong, according to nearly all who use face cord to measure wood, face cord and rick are interchangeable to most. 4 x 8 feet by 16 inches for the face cord.


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## 2PPacker (Dec 15, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> Wrong, according to nearly all who use face cord to measure wood, face cord and rick are interchangeable to most. 4 x 8 feet by 16 inches for the face cord.


I am wrong on the terminology of "face cord", but around here firewood is sold by the 8' x 4' stack and is called a half cord, a 16' x 4' is called a full cord.


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## 2PPacker (Dec 15, 2014)

I guess there are obviously several different definitions of face cord and rick.
http://www.firewood-for-life.com/rick-of-firewood.html


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## zogger (Dec 15, 2014)

2PPacker said:


> I guess there are obviously several different definitions of face cord and rick.
> http://www.firewood-for-life.com/rick-of-firewood.html



Yep! That's why just on the forum here we like to use the actual definition of a cord when talking measurements. Locally, no one cares, rick/rank/face/bush cord, stack,craigslist "load".... but here, if we can stay on the same page it makes the discussions easier.

Two loads of oak I did this weekend in the chevy 1/2 ton were roughly 1/3rd cord easy apiece. I had room plus suspension leftover. 

Now in my ratsun truck, those would have been wicked full loads heaped up high..wouldn't have done it. Quarter cord..maybe.


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## zogger (Dec 15, 2014)

So which axle is this? I just looked at the diff, 14 bolt.


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## CTYank (Dec 15, 2014)

zogger said:


> So which axle is this? I just looked at the diff, 14 bolt.


Sure looks like a semi-floating- no hub protruding. And, it's missing a lug nut. Are those cracks in the wheel web?


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## tla100 (Dec 15, 2014)

zogger said:


> So which axle is this? I just looked at the diff, 14 bolt.



Not free floating, regular used on 1/2 tons. Free floating axles have bolts and hub that protrude thru the middle of the rim,similar to the front axle "hub", only the look...like this


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## tla100 (Dec 15, 2014)




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## zogger (Dec 15, 2014)

CTYank said:


> Sure looks like a semi-floating- no hub protruding. And, it's missing a lug nut. Are those cracks in the wheel web?



Yes, I know I need to get some more nuts. Those crack looking things are just weeds.


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## zogger (Dec 15, 2014)

tla100 said:


>



Thanks! Thought maybe I had the real heavy duty one, guess it is a moderate to light. The springs are fairly decent and it has dual shocks already though.


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## tla100 (Dec 15, 2014)

Not sure when they started putting full free float axles on trucks. Sometimes they called them a "heavy half" and used 6-8 lugs instead of 5.


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## Red97 (Dec 15, 2014)

zogger said:


> So which axle is this? I just looked at the diff, 14 bolt.


 
That is a gm 9.5" ring gear semi float rear axle Plenty stout under normal driving. It dosent have the weight capacity of a 14bolt full float 73-00 gm were 10.5" ring gear


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## Red97 (Dec 15, 2014)

tla100 said:


> Not sure when they started putting full free float axles on trucks. Sometimes they called them a "heavy half" and used 6-8 lugs instead of 5.


 
Gm used the 14bolt 6 lug was used in the 88-98 truck's Light duty 3/4 ton 

Actually gm made a 5 lug 14 bolt semi float for the 454ss pickup 89-91 If it came with a th400 trans they had 3.73 gears and the 4l80 trans got 4:10's


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## Red97 (Dec 15, 2014)

BeatCJ said:


> A Sterling in a Chevy? Holy cats, heads will spin.


 Chevy tuff with ford stuff. Actually the dana 60 is a ford model too. matched set out of a 86 f350


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## cantoo (Dec 15, 2014)

2PPacker, I think you might still be wrong. Earlier you said the splits were 18- 20" long. If that is correct then a stack of them 4' high and 16' long still wouldn't be a 1/2 cord. Still short the 4-6" of length on each split which is approx 16 to 25% short. Now if the splits were 24" long you would be correct.


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## tla100 (Dec 15, 2014)

Old man had a '69 Chevy C10 that had 6 bolt rims, but our '76 had 5. I am not chevy guy.....Mopar man at heart.


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## 066blaster (Dec 15, 2014)

It could be done. If you run the stacks the opposite way of the picture. 4 stacks 8 foot long 3 foot high. Plus a little extra for the wheel wells. You would need a 2x 10 rack. It would be heavy and your splits would have to be 16 inches or a little less to get em in there. 16 inches is standard around me if you cut them longer your just giving them extra.


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## 066blaster (Dec 15, 2014)

You gotta dually so no worries about wheel wells.


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 15, 2014)

If you stacked a full cord of green locust, oak, hickory, hedge, or mulberry in a 1/2-ton pickup that's racked up to hold the load, I doubt you would want to drive the truck. Figure 4,500 lb and take it from there (but not in the truck).


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## aarolar (Dec 15, 2014)

Long bed 1/2 ton trucks are best suited to hauling pine straw IMO...


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## unclemoustache (Dec 15, 2014)

I don't see the problem. I get at least 12 cords on my truck.


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## lefturnfreek (Dec 16, 2014)

1.5 cord does fit a 1/2, off road only.


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## BeatCJ (Dec 16, 2014)

unclemoustache said:


> I don't see the problem. I get at least 12 cords on my truck.


Well, most of us don't have your mad skills. And I never pass on the left, not even cows.


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## flotek (Dec 16, 2014)

I think anybody would be hard pressed to get over a cord in a regular pickup . Most people are not accounting for the big wheel wells or the slope of the sides . That's a lot of volume left out in your equation. Is it possible yeah is it safe no


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## woodchuck357 (Dec 16, 2014)

066blaster said:


> You gotta dually so no worries about wheel wells.


I have yet to see a dually that does not have wheel wells.


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## Red97 (Dec 16, 2014)

I am thinking he got stepside confused with dually.


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## 066blaster (Dec 16, 2014)

OH yeah, dually"s Still Got The Wells , SORRY.


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## steved (Dec 16, 2014)

zogger said:


> Ya, I am switching to a farm trailer soon anyway. There's one I use but his other goofs are using it right now, so I loaded the truck up instead.
> 
> I really want a nice cap and just haul the saws and gear in the truck and use the trailer for wood.


That's my preference, haul all the weight on the trailer. My trailer has more weight capacity than the truck and its got brakes...less stress on the truck, and me. No worry about where to put the saw with a full load either...


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## steved (Dec 16, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> If you stacked a full cord of green locust, oak, hickory, hedge, or mulberry in a 1/2-ton pickup that's racked up to hold the load, I doubt you would want to drive the truck. Figure 4,500 lb and take it from there (but not in the truck).





One thing to remember is that 1500/150 is not 1/2 ton, 2500/250 is not 3/4 ton, and 3500/350 is not 1 ton. 

My 2500hd is rated at 3400#s in the bed IIRC...most 1500s are rated over a ton. I think the last rating on a DRW Dodge 3500 I saw was 5300#s...the single rear wheel Dodge 3500 was actually rate higher on the rear suspension and axle at one point than the e-rated tires would carry.

Not saying 4500#s is safe in a 1500, but they haul more than 1000#s!!


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 16, 2014)

steved said:


> One thing to remember is that 1500/150 is not 1/2 ton, 2500/250 is not 3/4 ton, and 3500/350 is not 1 ton.
> 
> My 2500hd is rated at 3400#s in the bed IIRC...most 1500s are rated over a ton. I think the last rating on a DRW Dodge 3500 I saw was 5300#s...the single rear wheel Dodge 3500 was actually rate higher on the rear suspension and axle at one point than the e-rated tires would carry.
> 
> Not saying 4500#s is safe in a 1500, but they haul more than 1000#s!!


You have made my point very clearly. It is rather easy to overload a pickup truck and destroy it while doing so.


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## CRThomas (Dec 22, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> Wrong, according to nearly all who use face cord to measure wood, face cord and rick are interchangeable to most. 4 x 8 feet by 16 inches for the face cord.


 You are right when does the arguement start.


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## CRThomas (Dec 22, 2014)

I have a one ton junk truck I use to haul tossed wood in. A fellow had a tree cut down but the crew never came back he called me if I would want it. I went over we loaded half on the truck I went to the scales and weighted 2800 lb went home split it put it in the kiln. Eat super watch a little tv went to bed why would I want to load the truck till it's running over it this a macho game or something to see who can get the most on a truck got me.


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## CRThomas (Dec 22, 2014)

zogger said:


> Yep! That's why just on the forum here we like to use the actual definition of a cord when talking measurements. Locally, no one cares, rick/rank/face/bush cord, stack,craigslist "load".... but here, if we can stay on the same page it makes the discussions easier.
> 
> Two loads of oak I did this weekend in the chevy 1/2 ton were roughly 1/3rd cord easy apiece. I had room plus suspension leftover.
> 
> Now in my ratsun truck, those would have been wicked full loads heaped up high..wouldn't have done it. Quarter cord..maybe.


 In the area I live it is a rank people on here some times want to argue that. I delivered some firewood to a elderly couple as a favor He wanted to know if that was a rank I told him I would be back in about a hour and a half. I went home and took 2 half rank stand bolted them to gether returned to his house. Stacked the wood in the frame had trouble getting it to stay on top because it was way over a rank. I told him that was a rank at the top of the six byes. He said I have never got that much befor I said one time shot tell your grand son don't call me for you I don't do bulk firewood thats for the beer drinkers and this rank plus is free I left. His grandson called me this winter ask if I could help his grandpa out with a little wood I just hung up no answer. Thats one of the reasons I don't sell bulk people have problem believing you. I sell only bundled firewood when you deliver it they glad to see you and pay you.


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 22, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> In the area I live it is a rank people on here some times want to argue that. I delivered some firewood to a elderly couple as a favor He wanted to know if that was a rank I told him I would be back in about a hour and a half. I went home and took 2 half rank stand bolted them to gether returned to his house. Stacked the wood in the frame had trouble getting it to stay on top because it was way over a rank. I told him that was a rank at the top of the six byes. He said I have never got that much befor I said one time shot tell your grand son don't call me for you I don't do bulk firewood thats for the beer drinkers and this rank plus is free I left. His grandson called me this winter ask if I could help his grandpa out with a little wood I just hung up no answer. Thats one of the reasons I don't sell bulk people have problem believing you. I sell only bundled firewood when you deliver it they glad to see you and pay you.


Can you post a picture of the bundles that you sell?


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## lknchoppers (Dec 22, 2014)

I get a cord in here split and partially stacked. In the round 1.25 cord. Bed is 6'x8'.


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## CRThomas (Dec 22, 2014)

This is some body else's picture but all most the same


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 22, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> View attachment 388685
> View attachment 388685
> View attachment 388685
> This is some body else's picture but all most the same


Thanks. How much do you charge for a bundle?


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## singinwoodwackr (Dec 22, 2014)

2PPacker said:


> You would have to stack the wood tight and high to fit a face cord let alone a real full cord in an 8' pickup bed.


Yup.
1/2 cord in a full-size standard bed is tightly stacked/packed from cab to tailgate (no dead space) and 4" above the sides (flat, not domed center). This is how we sold almond out of the field (U-pick up/haul) in the San Joaquin valley for a lot of years. Since we (cutters) got paid by the cord you can bet we didn't let a load go out with a stick more than what was paid for. You cannot get a full cord on that same truck w/o rails...at least w/o losing a lot of wood driving down the road 
green oak/almond weighs nearly 6,000#/cord...not recommend


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## singinwoodwackr (Dec 22, 2014)

zogger said:


> Ya, I am switching to a farm trailer soon anyway. There's one I use but his other goofs are using it right now, so I loaded the truck up instead.
> 
> I really want a nice cap and just haul the saws and gear in the truck and use the trailer for wood.


make sure it has brakes


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## lknchoppers (Dec 22, 2014)

mn woodcutter said:


> Thanks. How much do you charge for a bundle?



I know it's kiln dried. I saw a bag like that at the grocery store. Price is $6.00


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## zogger (Dec 22, 2014)

singinwoodwackr said:


> make sure it has brakes



Ya, hoping when I get my own to get a milsurp one with surge brakes for use on the road, etc.. Around the farm here, going slow, etc, not too worried about it.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 22, 2014)

I haul 2 cords in the pickups 1 ton and 1.5 ton trucks. 8ftx12ft beds One ton plated at 14k, 1.5 I think is 16k.


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## CRThomas (Dec 22, 2014)

My price depends on how I do it. Straight bundles wrapped in clear wrap a 100 bundles delivered $2.50 a bundle From there they go all the way to $10.00 a bundle. With there Dog or Cats picture on it.Wrap with colored wrap or wrapped in xmas paper or Dallas Cowboy paper. The more they want the higher the price. In my and mywifes firewood business thats all we do year round we sell as much in the summer times as the winter time. We wrap and sell from a 100 to 200 bundles a day average 4 to 5 days a week we have about $300.000.00 worth of equipment. We kiln dry all the wood we sell unless they want it dryer than 15 percent then the price gos up.


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 22, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> My price depends on how I do it. Straight bundles wrapped in clear wrap a 100 bundles delivered $2.50 a bundle From there they go all the way to $10.00 a bundle. With there Dog or Cats picture on it.Wrap with colored wrap or wrapped in xmas paper or Dallas Cowboy paper. The more they want the higher the price. In my and mywifes firewood business thats all we do year round we sell as much in the summer times as the winter time. We wrap and sell from a 100 to 200 bundles a day average 4 to 5 days a week we have about $300.000.00 worth of equipment. We kiln dry all the wood we sell unless they want it dryer than 15 percent then the price gos up.


Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 22, 2014)

lknchoppers said:


> View attachment 388671
> 
> 
> I get a cord in here split and partially stacked. In the round 1.25 cord. Bed is 6'x8'.


Rack it way up high, have heavy duty shocks, oversize tires (at least 265's) , off-highway frame and springs, an 8' bed, and yes, you can get a cord packed into a pickup truck.

Make sure you get paid for that full cord of hardwood, and make sure that it is good firewood, ready to burn.


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## Marshy (Dec 22, 2014)

I'd put money on a fitting a cord in my pickup if I didn't have the tool box. I'd say here's 3/4 a cord but it's stacked tighter than a nats azz, all black cherry.


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 22, 2014)

Marshy said:


> I'd put money on a fitting a cord in my pickup if I didn't have the tool box. I'd say here's 3/4 a cord but it's stacked tighter than a nats azz, all black cherry.


Looks like you have a beautiful spot there. Also, that old chevy looks in darn nice shape! I like it!


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 22, 2014)

Marshy said:


> I'd put money on a fitting a cord in my pickup if I didn't have the tool box. I'd say here's 3/4 a cord but it's stacked tighter than a nats azz, all black cherry.


The thing is, if you removed the tool box and packed more in, perhaps a full cord, you are then carrying 4,200 lb or more. Do you really want to do that to your truck and then move along a 60 mph to the customer? I don't.


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## singinwoodwackr (Dec 22, 2014)

One of the guys who used to pick up Almond from the field to sell used to have a Ford 1-ton flat bed that he hauled 1 cord in. On top of that he had a 2-cord trailer.
Deliveries went well until that one day he didn't slow down quite soon enough for a hwy exit. He went down the ramp and proceeded to blow through the stop sign and jammed his cab under a semi. Wood everywhere...to fire rescue over an hr to pri them out of the cab (not badly hurt). CHP eventually took the rig and contents to the weigh station...right around 18,000# of wood....way over the truck and trailer frame and braking limits. He wound up in jail for a while, paid a huge fine, lost his drivers license, lost the truck/trailer and was out of work for 6mos until he decided rented a Ryder box truck...that he overload once again...dude never learned...sigh.


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## Marshy (Dec 22, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> The thing is, if you removed the tool box and packed more in, perhaps a full cord, you are then carrying 4,200 lb or more. Do you really want to do that to your truck and then move along a 60 mph to the customer? I don't.


Not for commercial use, personal use only and only under certain conditions. I don't think I went over 45-50 and was less than 10 miles from home. If you need to move this much wood or more on a regular basis then I'd be looking at a 3500 at least and a dump box. E rated tires would help too. Those c rated tires were like driving on a water bed. 



mn woodcutter said:


> Looks like you have a beautiful spot there. Also, that old chevy looks in darn nice shape! I like it!


Thanks! I got it for a steal because it was an unfinished project truck. The last thing the seller did was put a clutch in it and forgot the transfer case was in neutral because he didn't have the linkage hooked up. Sold it to me thinking he did something wrong with the clutch. I still had to put about $800 into it to make it road worthy...


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## nathon918 (Dec 22, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> The thing is, if you removed the tool box and packed more in, perhaps a full cord, you are then carrying 4,200 lb or more. Do you really want to do that to your truck and then move along a 60 mph to the customer? I don't.


says the guy that over loads a ranger which has a tiny braking system...


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## Marshy (Dec 22, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> says the guy that over loads a ranger which has a tiny braking system...


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## Big_Al (Dec 22, 2014)

singinwoodwackr said:


> One of the guys who used to pick up Almond from the field to sell used to have a Ford 1-ton flat bed that he hauled 1 cord in. On top of that he had a 2-cord trailer.
> Deliveries went well until that one day he didn't slow down quite soon enough for a hwy exit. He went down the ramp and proceeded to blow through the stop sign and jammed his cab under a semi. Wood everywhere...to fire rescue over an hr to pri them out of the cab (not badly hurt). CHP eventually took the rig and contents to the weigh station...right around 18,000# of wood....way over the truck and trailer frame and braking limits. He wound up in jail for a while, paid a huge fine, lost his drivers license, lost the truck/trailer and was out of work for 6mos until he decided rented a Ryder box truck...that he overload once again...dude never learned...sigh.




Sounds a bit far fetched. 3 cords of wood weighed 18k lbs? Dry wood out here (tamarack or red fir) weighs around 3k a cord. That weight shouldn't be any problem for a 1 ton truck. Most pickup campers weigh that much, especially wet weight. Couple cords on a dual axle trailer, shouldn't be a problem either. Mine is rated for 7k and has electric brakes.


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## CRThomas (Dec 23, 2014)

I ain't going to go there why load a truck or trailer till it gets unsafe or is making money that important.


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## Big_Al (Dec 23, 2014)

I just don't see where a cord of dry wood on an f350 is anywhere near unsafe. Certainly not in my book.
By that logic I shouldn't carry my camper or tow my boat either.


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## Marshy (Dec 23, 2014)

Big_Al said:


> I just don't see where a cord of dry wood on an f350 is anywhere near unsafe. Certainly not in my book.
> By that logic I shouldn't carry my camper or tow my boat either.


It's not. I think the overwhelming majority of people will agree with that.


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## singinwoodwackr (Dec 23, 2014)

Big_Al said:


> Sounds a bit far fetched. 3 cords of wood weighed 18k lbs? Dry wood out here (tamarack or red fir) weighs around 3k a cord. That weight shouldn't be any problem for a 1 ton truck. Most pickup campers weigh that much, especially wet weight. Couple cords on a dual axle trailer, shouldn't be a problem either. Mine is rated for 7k and has electric brakes.


true story, sorry. Green Almond weighs in the 6000#/cord range depending on time of year cut. He was one of our regular buyers for several years.


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## Big_Al (Dec 23, 2014)

Googled a bit, dry weights show as 3500-4000. Didn't find a green weight. Found green white oak at 5k which surprised me, don't have hardwoods around here. Around here the le types could care less about pickup trucks & load weights. Pickup trucks full of wood are a common site , usually with a trailer full too. Maybe california is different. Here you might get a ticket for failure to yield for accident you described. Certainly wouldn't go to jail or lose a license.


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## Big_Al (Dec 23, 2014)

And even at 5-6k it would depend on the trailer to determine if it was overloaded or not.


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## firebrick43 (Dec 23, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> Rack it way up high, have heavy duty shocks, oversize tires (at least 265's) , off-highway frame and springs, an 8' bed, and yes, you can get a cord packed into a pickup truck.
> 
> Make sure you get paid for that full cord of hardwood, and make sure that it is good firewood, ready to burn.



Off highway frame? Never seen that option on a class 1,2,or 3 truck?

265 tires, why. Many off the heaviest duty tires for carrying weight are only 215 -235 wide. Oversize tires typically have more flexible sidewalls and belts with less weight capacity(especially 15" rims) . It's the load range/plies not the width that gives tires weight capacity.

O. And trust me, the worst feeling in the world is your rear wheel with half an axle shaft passing you just as your about to go over a bridge. I park that wondering Wanda right there, called my boss and started singing a Johnny paycheck song!


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## Big_Al (Dec 23, 2014)

Not sure what a class 1,2,3 truck is? The only ones that could possibly (not likely) lose an axle half is a half ton pu.


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## CRThomas (Dec 23, 2014)

In my area when they go get scrap or wood there bumper hitch all most drag the highway I've saw hundreds of time that is over loaded 2 ton on a 150 pickup is not good.


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## steved (Dec 23, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> You have made my point very clearly. It is rather easy to overload a pickup truck and destroy it while doing so.


I don't follow you? 

My 2500hd (a "3/4 ton") is rated at 3400#s...that's a ton and a half. The designation means nothing...like tires, its all about the rating. 

Most, if not all, duallies are rated over 5k (2-1/2 ton)...most cords of dry wood is under that.

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## firebrick43 (Dec 23, 2014)

Big_Al said:


> Not sure what a class 1,2,3 truck is? The only ones that could possibly (not likely) lose an axle half is a half ton pu.



I don't know why we call them half tons? Most are rated for 2000 #s, which is a full ton??? Even the dakota I had was rated for 2000. The 150 or 1500 refers to class 1
250/2500 class 2 and so on. 

There are many 250/2500 3/4 tons out there with semi floating axles. Full floating axles are a available as options on 3/4 tons. The truck that lost the axle on me was a k20 Chevy with a semifloating 14 bolt rear end. Don't think your immune just because you have a 3/4 ton. Look at the axle. 

But my class 1,2,3 comment was focused on a previous poster talking about off road frames, which simply doesn't exists. On class 7 and 8 trucks you can spec heavier duty and even doubled frames but not on small trucks.


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## steved (Dec 23, 2014)

Even a full-float axle can break...saw that on the diesel forums a couple times, overloaded with fifthwheel pin weight and a bad bump...axle breaks at the center chunk. 

That's why some of the later Dodges went to a heavier duty housing on the 11.5"AAM.

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## Deleted member 83629 (Dec 23, 2014)

singinwoodwackr said:


> make sure it has brakes


brakes are optional, just find the nearest tree.


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## CRThomas (Dec 23, 2014)

steved said:


> I don't follow you?
> 
> My 2500hd (a "3/4 ton") is rated at 3400#s...that's a ton and a half. The designation means nothing...like tires, its all about the rating.
> 
> ...


My 450 power stoke is only rated at 16000 gross its weight is 10000 plus My 550 power stroke gross weight is 19000 it weights 12000 how can these 1/2 ton be safe going down the highway with 8 ft bed ith side boards higher than the cab safe. I mustbebuyingthe wrong trucks My 350 gmc gross weight 14000 it weights 9000 plus mty. My 250 gross weight 12000 it weights 9800 mty. My ten wheeler I don't know but I can haul 15 ton of gravel legally our grain trailers we run 44000 don't know there weight because all the trailers weight different


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## steved (Dec 23, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> My 450 power stoke is only rated at 16000 gross its weight is 10000 plus My 550 power stroke gross weight is 19000 it weights 12000 how can these 1/2 ton be safe going down the highway with 8 ft bed ith side boards higher than the cab safe. I mustbebuyingthe wrong trucks My 350 gmc gross weight 14000 it weights 9000 plus mty. My 250 gross weight 12000 it weights 9800 mty. My ten wheeler I don't know but I can haul 15 ton of gravel legally our grain trailers we run 44000 don't know there weight because all the trailers weight different




Again, the designation on the door has nothing to do with the carrying capacity.

And your 250 doesn't weigh 9800...that's more than the GROSS WEIGHT of a fully loaded Dodge 2500 and a Silverado 2500hd. Better recheck that...

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## CRThomas (Dec 24, 2014)

My 2012 Power stroke both fuel tanks full and me in it on every scales it weights 9800 lb give or take a couple of pounds. Less all the rock quarrys and elevators states scales are wrong which.


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## Big_Al (Dec 24, 2014)

Is it a crew cab dually? Or maybe trucks have gotten heavier. I know they've added a lot of emissions & electronics. My 97 psd 4wd reg cab weighed around 7600. Same truck with a 460 was 6700.


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## steved (Dec 24, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> My 2012 Power stroke both fuel tanks full and me in it on every scales it weights 9800 lb give or take a couple of pounds. Less all the rock quarrys and elevators states scales are wrong which.


I've owned a LOT of Dodge Cummins 2500 and a Silverado 2500, not one has ever weighed more than 6400#s. Seems that would be a waste of 3000#s when competing in a similar class/market?

Just ain't buying a stock F250 weighs 10k empty.

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## steved (Dec 24, 2014)

I just looked it up...a 2012 F250 (regardless of configuration) is a max GVW of 10k and a curb weight of about 7500 (crew cab/diesel)...that's from Ford's site. Even the SRW F350 is only 10500 GVW. That's more in line with all the others...

If you're scaling empty at 9800 pounds, you have 200#s of capacity left...hopefully you have a light saw.

Back on topic, while firewood is our interest; ever see the guys with loads of the small hay bales? That stuff ain't light and they stack it well over the cab.

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## nathon918 (Dec 24, 2014)

steved said:


> I've owned a LOT of Dodge Cummins 2500 and a Silverado 2500, not one has ever weighed more than 6400#s. Seems that would be a waste of 3000#s when competing in a similar class/market?
> 
> Just ain't buying a stock F250 weighs 10k empty.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk


 he says his F450 weighs 10k empty too, no way a 250 only weighs 200# less than a 450
my 04 Cummins 3500 CC SRW only weighs around #7600, GVW is #9900...


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 24, 2014)

These 3 loads ricked out at 3.5 cord. Without racks you basically have to have the tailgate down and stacked to get a cord without ricking the sides. Max I drive is about 5 miles on country roads and yes, you drive slow and plan ahead. This truck is a 1/2 ton with no helpers or airbags. Axle went out of it BEFORE I started using it as a wood truck at over 200000 miles. 300000 + on it now and axle is still okay. Low lock off road and always plan on brakes failing is my motto. Learned that from my previous job where we broke springs all the time. Even broke a frame on a 3/4 ton.

Probably hauled well over 400 cord with this truck so they will take more abuse than you think. I stay out of peoples way and local cops wave when we pass so it is all good. Highway or town driving, ah, no.  Most of my hauling is from farm to farm or on property. Extreme cold temps will also make things break quicker as steel isn't as strong then. 

I never had a blowout with standard tires. had all kinds of issues with E rated or highers though. Where I used to work we had over 3 ton loads all day and never had an issue with tires. Bought 3 Cummins Dodges with Michelin E rated and half of them blew within 2 years till I told them I refused to drive till they replaced them. We did replace with generic bias ply and no more issues. Did we abuse them? Heck yeah, but the other tires got the same treatment and held up. Real world testing is more accurate to me than what the dealer says. Had Goodyear E Rated go as well.


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## nathon918 (Dec 24, 2014)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> These 3 loads ricked out at 3.5 cord. Without racks you basically have to have the tailgate down and stacked to get a cord without ricking the sides. Max I drive is about 5 miles on country roads and yes, you drive slow and plan ahead. This truck is a 1/2 ton with no helpers or airbags. Axle went out of it BEFORE I started using it as a wood truck at over 200000 miles. 300000 + on it now and axle is still okay. Low lock off road and always plan on brakes failing is my motto. Learned that from my previous job where we broke springs all the time. Even broke a frame on a 3/4 ton.
> 
> Probably hauled well over 400 cord with this truck so they will take more abuse than you think. I stay out of peoples way and local cops wave when we pass so it is all good. Highway or town driving, ah, no.  Most of my hauling is from farm to farm or on property. Extreme cold temps will also make things break quicker as steel isn't as strong then.
> 
> I never had a blowout with standard tires. had all kinds of issues with E rated or highers though. Where I used to work we had over 3 ton loads all day and never had an issue with tires. Bought 3 Cummins Dodges with Michelin E rated and half of them blew within 2 years till I told them I refused to drive till they replaced them. We did replace with generic bias ply and no more issues. Did we abuse them? Heck yeah, but the other tires got the same treatment and held up. Real world testing is more accurate to me than what the dealer says. Had Goodyear E Rated go as well.


 hope WS doesn't see this...or this will shortly be a bias vs. radial thread...we don't need another one


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 24, 2014)

> Bought 3 Cummins Dodges with Michelin E rated and half of them blew within 2 years



I bought 12 E rated Mich tires too, and half of them blew out! My friend bought some Mich tires fro his wives car, 2 blew out. All of the ones I inspected had weak sidewalls... My friends wife, scraped a curb while parking and those are the ones that blew out on her car.

Anyway, it's NOT an "E" rated tire problem, it's an Mich problem... I will NEVER buy them again and I have 3 trucks that use "E" tires, (including a Cummins Dodge) no problems with other brands blowing out.

SR


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 24, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I bought 12 E rated Mich tires too, and half of them blew out! My friend bought some Mich tires fro his wives car, 2 blew out. All of the ones I inspected had weak sidewalls... My friends wife, scraped a curb while parking and those are the ones that blew out on her car.
> 
> Anyway, it's NOT an "E" rated tire problem, it's an Mich problem... I will NEVER buy them again and I have 3 trucks that use "E" tires, (including a Cummins Dodge) no problems with other brands blowing out.
> 
> SR




Wish I could say the same. Here's a Goodyear on my driver 3/4 Dodge. Never been overloaded and this one delamed at 45 MPH. They ended up replacing the whole bedside and the funny thing was the tire never lost air. Just stayed attached and beat the trucks side till I could get pulled over. Even busted the taillight. Tire was 3 years old by the date code and had 3/4 tread left. Truck had not been heavily used offroad either.












I have Dunlop G rated on the 550 so we'll see how they do I guess.

Previous company owner also bought 6 new Michelins for their motorhome at the same time the got the first round of truck. That year while on vacation 3 of those blew and they were a different mold. I'm with you though, no Michelins for me...ever.

I guess what really puzzles me is why a tire that is DESIGNED for heavy weight, can't hold up to what normal tires seemingly can. My guess is maybe they are too stiff? as it always seems to be a belt shift problem.

It may also be something with the rubber as my driver car seems to have belt shifts now too. Last one I took in to get replaced and the guy at the counter told me I should bring the car in to have it aligned. I told him I'd pass because he'd just want to sell me a bunch of suspension parts and his tires don't outlast the tread anyway.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 24, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> My 450 power stoke is only rated at 16000 gross its weight is 10000 plus My 550 power stroke gross weight is 19000 it weights 12000 how can these 1/2 ton be safe going down the highway with 8 ft bed ith side boards higher than the cab safe. I mustbebuyingthe wrong trucks My 350 gmc gross weight 14000 it weights 9000 plus mty. My 250 gross weight 12000 it weights 9800 mty. My ten wheeler I don't know but I can haul 15 ton of gravel legally our grain trailers we run 44000 don't know there weight because all the trailers weight different


Yup, you did buy the wrong truck. For some years the 450 and 550 aren't rated for much over a 1 ton.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 24, 2014)

steved said:


> I've owned a LOT of Dodge Cummins 2500 and a Silverado 2500, not one has ever weighed more than 6400#s. Seems that would be a waste of 3000#s when competing in a similar class/market?
> they must have been 2wd.
> the 4wd I own weighs right around 7500lbs with me in it (200lbs)
> 
> ...


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 24, 2014)

steved said:


> I just looked it up...a 2012 F250 (regardless of configuration) is a max GVW of 10k and a curb weight of about 7500 (crew cab/diesel)...that's from Ford's site. Even the SRW F350 is only 10500 GVW. That's more in line with all the others...
> 
> If you're scaling empty at 9800 pounds, you have 200#s of capacity left...hopefully you have a light saw.
> 
> ...



I was at the store 2 days ago and there was an s-10 with 2 round bales and about 400 lbs of sack feed in the bed. The bumper was just about rubbing the dirt!


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## steved (Dec 24, 2014)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I was at the store 2 days ago and there was an s-10 with 2 round bales and about 400 lbs of sack feed in the bed. The bumper was just about rubbing the dirt!


That's what I'm talking about! 

The best overload I ever saw should be a Chevy DuraMax commercial...I was heading south on I44 towards Tulsa and here comes a SRW crewcab Silverado (either a 2500HD or a SRW 3500) with a triple axle (dual wheels mind you) trailer with not only a triaxle dump truck on it, but a FULLY LOADED triaxle at that! 

I ran the numbers roughly through mind two brain cells and figured 7k for the truck, probably 15k for the trailer, and probably 80k for the dump? Over 100k pounds!

I was glad he was going north, and was back there, and not in front of me.

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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 24, 2014)

Tri axle dump as in 10 wheeler or 14 wheeler?

Most 10 wheelers are good for 45-50k, a 14 wheeler could be around that or a bit more. I don't think you'd legally sit at 80k.

None the less... lot of weight!

Some years back there was a farmer that drove through town. Had 2 full size John Deeres, I forget the model, but they were articulating tractors and duallie tires on all 4.
He had TWO of those loaded on a trailer, towing with a duallie Dodge 3500. No flags, no pilot cars, no overside (well over 10ft wide). I was eating lunch at MacDonald's and I hear a diesel working HARD. I looked over to see and I saw that whole crapstorm pulling away from the stoplight. He was headed North which mean 10-14% grades, roads with lanes barely 10ft wide, no shoulder, mountain cliffs, with minimal guardrails, etc.... I hate driving that section even in my car!


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## farmer steve (Dec 24, 2014)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I was at the store 2 days ago and there was an s-10 with 2 round bales and about 400 lbs of sack feed in the bed. The bumper was just about rubbing the dirt!


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## zogger (Dec 24, 2014)

Well, glad you were able to get your hay in, man!


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 24, 2014)

WELL, if he had baled it first, he never would have got it all on! lol

SR


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## Steve NW WI (Dec 24, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> my 04 Cummins 3500 CC SRW only weighs around #7600, GVW is #9900...



Thats a lot of bloat there. 88 K1500 is rated for 6400, across the scale empty at 4400. You're draggin over 3000 pounds more around to carry 300 more pounds.

I'll grant you more towing capacity, but my point is trucks these days are fat pigs.


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## firebrick43 (Dec 24, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> Thats a lot of bloat there. 88 K1500 is rated for 6400, across the scale empty at 4400. You're draggin over 3000 pounds more around to carry 300 more pounds.
> 
> I'll grant you more towing capacity, but my point is trucks these days are fat pigs.



Steve, how can you really compare a diesel crew cab to gas powered regular(or maybe extended cab) cab truck. Compare the PP dodge to a 88 3+3 k20 with a 6.2l turd of a diesel and the specs would be a lot closer


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## steved (Dec 24, 2014)

The feel of a 2500/3500 versus a 1500 is night and day...I thought my dad was nuts for buying a 2500 after owning 1500s, after hauling one load with his truck, my next truck was a 2500 and I have never regretted it. I have owned no less than seven Cummins and several gassers since then, my next truck will be a 3500.

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## tla100 (Dec 24, 2014)

Yep, I agree and will not own another 1500, bought my '05 Dodge 2500 Hemi and hauling loads, trailers, anything feels so much more stable than 1500's. Granted growing up we loaded our old '76 chevy 1/2 ton to the max every weekend with scrap iron, wood, and anything else. NEVER had any spring, tire, or suspension problems. But, I hate the feeling of front tires just touching the gravel. Ride is not the best, but oh well. Father in laws '08 3500 Dodge cummins actually rides better than mine. With gas prices dropping like they are, I may be waiting on getting a cummins for a few years. And when I do it may be running red fuel


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## Steve NW WI (Dec 25, 2014)

You guys miss my point. Read my last line again. Sure, they're better at towing with a big diesel, but those heavier axles and springs are just being used to hold up the fat that makes these cowboy cadillacs palatable to Mrs. Truck Buyer.

"Honey, I need a new truck. This one's got a cloth seat, 2-60 air conditioning, and will haul 4000 lbs".

"No, we need a minivan for the chillins."

"Well, how about this one, it's got 4 doors, room for 6, powerheatedleatherremoteeverything, and a stubby little box so it can fit in your garage."

"Sure dear."

My 05 Silverado I bought this fall is guilty as charged, but it's not primarily a hauler. Does pretty good with a 7K trailer back behind it though.

If you really gotta tow stuff, you can get a real truck a heck of a lot cheaper than a Cowboy Cadillac, and get a sleeper for when Mrs. Truck Buyer sends you to the doghouse for it. 

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=5709821


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## Big_Al (Dec 25, 2014)

Kinda getting off track a bit?
Any 1 ton truck will handle a cord of wood way better than a half ton.


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## Steve NW WI (Dec 25, 2014)

Big_Al said:


> Kinda getting off track a bit?



Considering the original question was answered a year ago, we've needed something to argue about since then.


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## Big_Al (Dec 25, 2014)

Thread started last week


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## Steve NW WI (Dec 25, 2014)

Damn, I must be a year ahead of myself. Swore the first post said Dec of 13 when I looked. I was probably thinking of another near identical thread with the same arguments and the same suspects in it.

I'm gonna have another swig and go to bed...


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 25, 2014)

Most 1 tons run the same drive train whether it's gas or diesel powered.

My small dump is a one ton and it hauls 2 cords just fine. Hardly even notice just one cord.


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## artbaldoni (Dec 25, 2014)

I have a half ton with helper springs and 10 ply tires. I have never tried to haul a cord of wood in it. I pull a cord plus on the trailer with no issues. 10 miles round trip. I can haul 1.5 tons of coal with no problem and it has room for me an a few of my kids when we go to the woodlot. The best part is it cost me all of $500 and is actually a pretty nice truck!


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 25, 2014)

When I stepped UP to a 3/4 ton pu from a half ton, waaaaay back when, it was a BIG step UP... And, when I stepped up to a one ton "dually" it was another big step up,






especially when pulling heavy trailers, the duals really help with stability,






SR


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## mn woodcutter (Dec 25, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> When I stepped UP to a 3/4 ton pu from a half ton, waaaaay back when, it was a BIG step UP... And, when I stepped up to a one ton "dually" it was another big step up,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a bad @ss truck. I love the old 1st gen cummins.


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## firebrick43 (Dec 25, 2014)

I read the last line, I was trying to point out they made fat pigs in 1988 to. Fat slow underpowered pigs, Chevy 3+3's. 

I agree with you on the buy a bigger truck cause it's cheaper however




Gmc 6500 with a 3126b w/800lbs of torque cat, six speed, air ride seats and rear axle. 19.5 tires. Gets 15 mpg unloaded/ loaded (bed). About 10k cheaper than an equivalent age quadcab 2500/3500 pickup. To a while to find a manual quadcab however. Was going to do a semi, actually had a down payment on a western star but the buyer chit on our agreement when another guy showed up and offered more money a couple of hours before I showed up to take it home. Luckily I did get my money back. After looking at it more however the view and ride of someone in the sleeper converted to a bench seat was not pleasant so I went with the medium duty truck


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## Red97 (Dec 26, 2014)

steved said:


> The feel of a 2500/3500 versus a 1500 is night and day...I thought my dad was nuts for buying a 2500 after owning 1500s, after hauling one load with his truck, my next truck was a 2500 and I have never regretted it. I have owned no less than seven Cummins and several gassers since then, my next truck will be a 3500.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk


 
I Believe the new single wheel 3500 are just different badges on the doors of 2500, If you go to dual wheels then you gain more springs and a few other goodies. 



Steve NW WI said:


> You guys miss my point. Read my last line again. Sure, they're better at towing with a big diesel, but those heavier axles and springs are just being used to hold up the fat that makes these cowboy cadillacs palatable to Mrs. Truck Buyer.
> 
> "Honey, I need a new truck. This one's got a cloth seat, 2-60 air conditioning, and will haul 4000 lbs".
> 
> ...


 
That's why you get the std cab rubber floor version 3500 dually. No bells, all whistle. LOL



firebrick43 said:


> I read the last line, I was trying to point out they made fat pigs in 1988 to. Fat slow underpowered pigs, Chevy 3+3's.
> 
> I agree with you on the buy a bigger truck cause it's cheaper however
> 
> ...


 
I cant argue with the medium truck stuff. But for me semi commercial. The plates and insurance per month on a med duty truck, was almost the same as the payment on a new crew cab diesel And then you have the scale thing and log books. You can fly under the radar with the 3500 dually. Because it is a mrs truck and everywhere.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 26, 2014)

Red97 said:


> I Believe the new single wheel 3500 are just different badges on the doors of 2500, If you go to dual wheels then you gain more springs and a few other goodies.



"IF" that's true, it's only true for the last few years, as one ton trucks have always had a heavier frame than a 3/4 ton pu.

I would check that out before I'd count on it being true...

SR


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 26, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> "IF" that's true, it's only true for the last few years, as one ton trucks have always had a heavier frame than a 3/4 ton pu.
> 
> I would check that out before I'd count on it being true...
> 
> SR


I think 5500 are a little bigger. It measures 14 inches tall behind the cab.


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## Red97 (Dec 26, 2014)

Only talking gm 2500 3500 crew cab pickup.


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## Red97 (Dec 26, 2014)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I think 5500 are a little bigger. It measures 14 inches tall behind the cab.



A 5500 is indeed a ill bigger. Lol


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 26, 2014)

Red97 said:


> Only talking gm 2500 3500 crew cab pickup.



Just having a little fun. I do know one the late 70's Chevys the 3/4's had a smaller frame on the rear half of the truck compared to a 1 ton. The front frame was indeed the same. Both could be gotten with a dana 60 front and corp. 14 bolt rear.








This is a one ton frame.


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## nathon918 (Dec 26, 2014)

Red97 said:


> I Believe the new single wheel 3500 are just different badges on the doors of 2500, If you go to dual wheels then you gain more springs and a few other goodies.




my 04 cummins 3500 CC srw has the same frame, same axles, etc as a dually, a dually does have a few extra leafs in their spring packs, but that's it, everything else is the same...


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 26, 2014)

Red97 said:


> Only talking gm 2500 3500 crew cab pickup.



And thickness of material and tensile strength??? Like I said, they "use to be" (and may still be) different...

SR


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## firebrick43 (Dec 26, 2014)

Red97 said:


> I cant argue with the medium truck stuff. But for me semi commercial. The plates and insurance per month on a med duty truck, was almost the same as the payment on a new crew cab diesel And then you have the scale thing and log books. You can fly under the radar with the 3500 dually. Because it is a mrs truck and everywhere.



Huh. Since this is a 2001 it's pretty much depreciated out and I pay I think 216 dollars for weight fees on the plates and another 30-40 dollars in property taxes on it. Insurance is about the same a year. I could get farm plates for half price(150 mile commercial radius) and indiana does allow you to use farm trucks for personal use outside that radius(or state) but talking with guys that do, educating Illinois and other states DOT cops about indiana law is a hassle I don't want to deal with.

Even though I am under 26000 on the truck any trailer over 10000 technically requires a cdl(except campers and farm plates). States out west require 1 tons to cross the scales now and as cash strapped states look for revenue they will stop ignoring the little guy. Illinois has taken it to the extreme. I live just 15 mile from the border and many farmers used go into Illinois for personal supplies and parts. Several have been stopped for driving 1 ton trucks will fuel or welding tanks in the bed and no hazmat cdl or hazmat placards. One guy it was a 5 gallon can of gas. According to IL any drw 1 ton is commercial unless you have a camper shell on it. Most farmers drive a little further now and stay out of IL. They were also ticketing farm plate semi truck drivers(IL residents) for not having CDL. CDL are not required for intrastate commerce. IL said because the grain elevator was selling it out of state it was interstate commerce.

IL has lost so much business from border IN residence and IL residence moving here that it had to mean lost revenue for them compared to the fines collected


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## steved (Dec 26, 2014)

I'm pretty sure the frames are the same between a 2500 and 3500 as they are tubular these days (at least for a Dodge or GM, never had a Ford). Dodge went to the tubular frame in 2003, Chevy in 2011. The difference in feel between a channel frame a tube frame is night and day. The tube frame has it all over the channel frame except for ease of straightening. Until you get into the 450/550 and 4500/5500 series...and maybe the 3500 Dodge chassis cabs.

The 3500s in the Dodge got the second leaf spring pack that was called a camper package in the late 90s Dodge. I owned two 99 Dodge 2500 with the camper package, they were essentially SRW 3500s when there was no such animal. They badged the camper package as a SRW 3500 in the third generation (2003+). I think it was to try to corner that market that both GM and Ford already had a presence. The early Dodge 3500s actually had a higher rear GAWR than the rear tires could support...there was a big debate on that on TDR at one point.

As long as you use it for personal stuff, even a Semi can be used as a non-commercial truck. But as soon as you take $ to haul something. I was looking at the 4wd Mitsubishi trucks at one time in place of a pickup. Or even a 5 ton military 6x6.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk


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## Red97 (Dec 26, 2014)

firebrick43 said:


> Huh. Since this is a 2001 it's pretty much depreciated out and I pay I think 216 dollars for weight fees on the plates and another 30-40 dollars in property taxes on it. Insurance is about the same a year. I could get farm plates for half price(150 mile commercial radius) and indiana does allow you to use farm trucks for personal use outside that radius(or state) but talking with guys that do, educating Illinois and other states DOT cops about indiana law is a hassle I don't want to deal with.
> 
> Even though I am under 26000 on the truck any trailer over 10000 technically requires a cdl(except campers and farm plates). States out west require 1 tons to cross the scales now and as cash strapped states look for revenue they will stop ignoring the little guy. Illinois has taken it to the extreme. I live just 15 mile from the border and many farmers used go into Illinois for personal supplies and parts. Several have been stopped for driving 1 ton trucks will fuel or welding tanks in the bed and no hazmat cdl or hazmat placards. One guy it was a 5 gallon can of gas. According to IL any drw 1 ton is commercial unless you have a camper shell on it. Most farmers drive a little further now and stay out of IL. They were also ticketing farm plate semi truck drivers(IL residents) for not having CDL. CDL are not required for intrastate commerce. IL said because the grain elevator was selling it out of state it was interstate commerce.
> 
> IL has lost so much business from border IN residence and IL residence moving here that it had to mean lost revenue for them compared to the fines collected


 
That is why the next "work" truck is going to be a class 8 motorhome conversion, 20ft living 20ft garage. It is a RV so exempt on everything commercial related. LOL Pretty sad when RV people get more pull than the farmer.


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## Red97 (Dec 26, 2014)

steved said:


> I'm pretty sure the frames are the same between a 2500 and 3500 as they are tubular these days (at least for a Dodge or GM, never had a Ford). Dodge went to the tubular frame in 2003, Chevy in 2011. The difference in feel between a channel frame a tube frame is night and day. The tube frame has it all over the channel frame except for ease of straightening. Until you get into the 450/550 and 4500/5500 series...and maybe the 3500 Dodge chassis cabs.
> 
> The 3500s in the Dodge got the second leaf spring pack that was called a camper package in the late 90s Dodge. I owned two 99 Dodge 2500 with the camper package, they were essentially SRW 3500s when there was no such animal. They badged the camper package as a SRW 3500 in the third generation (2003+). I think it was to try to corner that market that both GM and Ford already had a presence. The early Dodge 3500s actually had a higher rear GAWR than the rear tires could support...there was a big debate on that on TDR at one point.
> 
> ...


 
All I was getting at Is a 3500 single wheel truck Is nothing more than a 2500 truck with different badges anymore. As long as they have the same powertrain.

What I think is funny is the dual wheel gas truck can legally tow/haul more than the same exact diesel truck.


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## Red97 (Dec 26, 2014)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Just having a little fun. I do know one the late 70's Chevys the 3/4's had a smaller frame on the rear half of the truck compared to a 1 ton. The front frame was indeed the same. Both could be gotten with a dana 60 front and corp. 14 bolt rear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
What is that pretty thing under?

I was aware of the differences in the older trucks. I have had a few but true one ton's are rare/ expensive around here.


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## lefturnfreek (Dec 26, 2014)

Another cord plus in a 1/2 T and wet unfortunately, off road only....


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 27, 2014)

Red97 said:


> What is that pretty thing under?
> 
> I was aware of the differences in the older trucks. I have had a few but true one ton's are rare/ expensive around here.




The truck in my avatar. Here's a link to the build album:

http://imageevent.com/kevininohio?n=0


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## BeatCJ (Dec 27, 2014)

Red97 said:


> What I think is funny is the dual wheel gas truck can legally tow/haul more than the same exact diesel truck.



It's because the diesel engine is quite a bit heavier, 150 - 200 lbs.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 27, 2014)

BeatCJ said:


> It's because the diesel engine is quite a bit heavier, 150 - 200 lbs.



More like x2 that...

The gas engines today are aluminum, the cummins is still steel and heavy...

SR


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## BeatCJ (Dec 27, 2014)

Well, the comparison is broad. looking up my '87 Ford with a 6.9 (about 820 lbs) versus a 460 Ford (640 lbs to 720 lbs) seemed apples to apples. And you get a cascade effect. My diesel truck has different front springs, additional fuel handling equipment... The point is accurate, diesel engine trucks have a lower payload and tow rating because their empty weight is higher than a comparable equipped gasoline powered truck.

I suspect my middle name should have been ad nauseneum... My wife is always after me to simplify instead of amplify.


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## Deleted member 83629 (Dec 27, 2014)

some newer diesel engines are aluminum with cast iron wet sleeves in them.


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