# Welcome to the world of I bought a crap saw



## Wow (Feb 19, 2022)

A month or so ago someone phoned me asking advice on buying a saw for his home use..I said, I LOVE my Echo cs352 and my Echo cs490...After his constant calling he finally made a deal on a 352 and loved it for a few days BUT decided he needed a bigger saw..SO.. he bought a Echo cs4910. For a few days that was "The Saw",, then he bought an old used Crafstman 1842.. I've have not seen that saw but I know about the Poulan 4218. I'm guessing it's the same or almost the same saw..SO he took the Echo back and got his money. TODAY he called again. THIS time he needs advise how to change the Spur Drive and choose the right Spark Plug.. I helped him for abut an hour. This guy has plenty of money BUT pinches pennies..I guess it's a habit..Years ago I learned MY TIME is valuable..IF someone has the funds to buy a GOOD NEW saw why in the world buy headaches..UNLESS you just love working on stuff.. WHEN I was younger I loved fixing stuff BUT at my age It's become a JOB..I'll help anyone if I can BUT...It seems insane to return a new Echo and buy a USED Crafstman or poulan then tie others up on the phone when THEY have work to do....IF you know you can afford it NEW ECHO is always a better choice than USED Crafstman or Poulan.. IMHO...This guy is almost as old as me and I am afraid he will bug the crap out of me over his crap saw. I can't hurt his feelings so now I suffer along with him..I KNOW there are OTHERS like me in this world..I don't like getting dragged into more work when it's totally unnecessary..Welcome to the world of CRAPPY SAWS. I think it's BEST to buy a GOOD one to start with....Ha. Ha. Call me a SNOB but I choose Echo or Sthil because I DON'T want to work on Saws all the time...Someone say Amen,,preach it brother.. Ha Ha..


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## SweetMK (Feb 19, 2022)

If the guy is slipping $$$ in your pocket,, help him out,,
otherwise,, *WHY would you give a rats pajamas??*

The next time he calls,, (and EACH AND EVERY TIME AFTER THAT ) tell him,* "dunough,,,"  *

If you do not know enough,, HE will find someone else to waste time with..
Go back to blowing the dust off of your Stihl,,,


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## Wow (Feb 19, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> If the guy is slipping $$$ in your pocket,, help him out,,
> otherwise,, *WHY would you give a rats pajamas??*
> 
> The next time he calls,, (and EACH AND EVERY TIME AFTER THAT ) tell him,* "dunough,,," *
> ...


I've NEVER CHARGED anyone for advice. It seems he's running low on friends and I'm to soft hearted to bluntly handle this. Am I the ONLY GUY like me? My guess is no. I'd guess there's a lot of kind people who just can't hurt feelings. What shocked me is HIS DECISION. Why do people WHO CAN AFFORD a good saw buy CRAPPY saws????
Years ago I had all Poulan 2150. No antivibe. 37 cc and cut well. I GAVE that saw away. I DID PUT MY phone on "Do not disturb". I'm a counselor and one thing I've noticed is a lot of people need someone ELSE to validate them before they can feel good about themselves. I think the best thing about THIS POST is THAT maybe SOMEONE ELSE will read this and NOT be compelled to BUY that CRAPPY saw just to save a few bucks UP FRONT. In the beginning SPEND more and SAVE MORE in the long run. That's a good point. Somewhere, someone might be thinking about buying a saw. I HOPE they but a GOOD BRAND that will work for a LONG TIME trouble free. Crappy saws might seem cheap but THEY are expensive in the long run. IMHO. good day. .


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## pdqdl (Feb 19, 2022)

I think there are better ways to handle freeloaders and friends. I have the same kind of problem with folks seeking free advice, I also don't charge for my time. Up to a limit, and then I bill by the hour for my time. Of course, only for the stuff I make my living at.

If someone is intruding on your time, unfairly or otherwise, it is disingenuous of you to suffer through an hour of headaches and not explain yourself. You lose the right of complaint after the fact, if you agreed to the situation going in to the conversation.

Next time someone plies you for free advice, tell them honestly and fairly what you can do to help, and how much time you will give them at that moment. Friends will understand the limits imposed, and freeloaders will just push on ever harder to get what they want. Once they start negotiating for your time, you can start negotiating with them for the value of your time.

It is never unreasonable to tell folks where you draw the line. Just be reasonable & firm.

Ex: "John! I gotta be honest with you, I don't want to spend my entire Sunday morning talking to you about your chainsaw problem. If we can cover this in 5 minutes, that's ok, but I'm going to cut you off after that. I have other things I need to do..."


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## Wow (Feb 20, 2022)

You ARE SO CORRECT. I spoke with another one of our counselors this afternoon about it. She said she just went through the same thing. A needy lady was calling her 5 or 6 times a day. We volunteer for a ministry and with all that is going on a LOT of people need a shower to cry on. We are now putting our cell phone on do not disturb. I really feel sorry for people but there is a limit. It's after Midnight and I JUST finished my day and down to rest. I actually worked for an hour using my tractor lights and a headlight. My day (my own time) is just now starting. I need to catch up on my laundry and study my on line classes. If im in bed by 0400 I'll be lucky. BUT THE REAL message is People need to remember to PLEASE BUY A DECENT CHAINSAW. I have a tree to drop and buck tomorrow. It's in heavy brush which needs to be cleared first for safety sake. I'll be using my echo cs 590 to drop. May buck with the 029 sthil and limb using a cs352. Tonight I experienced with a Brush saw. The one with a saw blade like the carpenters use. For removing non stressed small limbs that thing might be handy for old men with bad backs. I went down both sides of a tree removed the 1.5 thick ends of limbs and cut smaller stuff close to the tree. Ill try that some more to see if it speeds things up. My two brothers are short temper bull dogs. Ha. Ha. Unlike me. They tell people off fast. No one is exempt. In fact sometimes I don't want to work with them. Ha. Ha. In the meantime my main point is, Crappy chainsaws always Will be crappy. They don't get better with use or time. People keep thinking they can beat the system. As someone said. You get exactly what you pay for. Echo is a LOT of saw for the money. In the long run they are much cheaper than the crappy saws. Since 2015 I've used the cs590 to drop some huge trees without any problems. That's cheap and getting cheaper. Have a great day.


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## ChillyB (Feb 20, 2022)

My dad, who is 73, has a bunch of "old" friends who call him for every little thing. Fixing lawnmowers, getting their tractors working, fixing electrical issues... Irritates me because Dad came up able to afford none of the nice things like a reliable chainsaw. Now that he has good equipment (and is approaching the point of not being able to enjoy it) he's still fixing junk. Except for other people who can afford better.


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## Wow (Feb 20, 2022)

My Story is almost the same..Raised DIRT poor..Went into the military at 17 already felt like an old man. Never had a childhood other than the very young years I spent with my Grandmother who taught me the Native American side of my family then back to my Dad who put me to work..After collage I tried management but loves outside. Took a HUGE pay cut to get back to hard work..Today I dropped a huge dead dangerous pine tree..Last night I worked with a head light after dark and tonight I just got inside AFTER dark again..I can fix a LOT of things BUT at my age I don't want to.. Ha. Ha. Because of my background (years studying the various religions, Bible School and psychology) I became a spiritual Counselor and volunteer my time.. The Problem is WHEN someone finds out I can do other things THEN I'm expected to work or advise them free..So...AS someone on this site said. I NEED to stand up and say...I'm sorry I JUST don't have time.. WELL... I did just that today. I KNOW this guy has PLENTY of money BUT Poverty is a mind set..I've counseled him for Years and so far I'm not seeing any progress...People who THINK they are paying to much for a GOOD saw and fight with crappy saws to save a few bucks on day one are dead wrong in their reasoning..They fit my definition of a fool. "A fool will waste his time fighting his own shadow and when he does win, HE looses". Someone will like quote. Ha Ha... Sometimes I'd like to say,, Dam*t buy a GOOD saw and enjoy it.. Be Blessed..


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## Huntaholic (Feb 20, 2022)

Ive got buddies like that. Ask me 10000 questions about something, then do just the opposite. Why ask me if you've already made your mind up? Had a guy just a couple weeks ago send me a pic of his brand new 460 rancher and ask me what I thought. WHY (&*^&^&^&^ BOTHER ASKING ME NOW!? For less than 200 bucks more I could have steered him in a much better direction or sold him a LOT better saw for the same or less money than he gave for the rancher.


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## preventec47 (Feb 21, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> Ive got buddies like that. Ask me 10000 questions about something, then do just the opposite. Why ask me if you've already made your mind up? Had a guy just a couple weeks ago send me a pic of his brand new 460 rancher and ask me what I thought. WHY (&*^&^&^&^ BOTHER ASKING ME NOW!? For less than 200 bucks more I could have steered him in a much better direction or sold him a LOT better saw for the same or less money than he gave for the rancher.


What exact model saw would your recommend as being "LOT" better for the same money ? I thought the 460 rancher was a pretty good saw ? ?


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## rret (Feb 21, 2022)

I have a rule. Never ask someone to do something that you don't want them to ask you to do. Sort of the Golden Rule. That includes moving a huge pile of firewood or asking for advise when you're really just tire kicking.


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## mr kanta (Feb 21, 2022)

Wow said:


> A month or so ago someone phoned me asking advice on buying a saw for his home use..I said, I LOVE my Echo cs352 and my Echo cs490...After his constant calling he finally made a deal on a 352 and loved it for a few days BUT decided he needed a bigger saw..SO.. he bought a Echo cs4910. For a few days that was "The Saw",, then he bought an old used Crafstman 1842.. I've have not seen that saw but I know about the Poulan 4218. I'm guessing it's the same or almost the same saw..SO he took the Echo back and got his money. TODAY he called again. THIS time he needs advise how to change the Spur Drive and choose the right Spark Plug.. I helped him for abut an hour. This guy has plenty of money BUT pinches pennies..I guess it's a habit..Years ago I learned MY TIME is valuable..IF someone has the funds to buy a GOOD NEW saw why in the world buy headaches..UNLESS you just love working on stuff.. WHEN I was younger I loved fixing stuff BUT at my age It's become a JOB..I'll help anyone if I can BUT...It seems insane to return a new Echo and buy a USED Crafstman or poulan then tie others up on the phone when THEY have work to do....IF you know you can afford it NEW ECHO is always a better choice than USED Crafstman or Poulan.. IMHO...This guy is almost as old as me and I am afraid he will bug the crap out of me over his crap saw. I can't hurt his feelings so now I suffer along with him..I KNOW there are OTHERS like me in this world..I don't like getting dragged into more work when it's totally unnecessary..Welcome to the world of CRAPPY SAWS. I think it's BEST to buy a GOOD one to start with....Ha. Ha. Call me a SNOB but I choose Echo or Sthil because I DON'T want to work on Saws all the time...Someone say Amen,,preach it brother.. Ha Ha..


call Dr Laura


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## medic5050 (Feb 21, 2022)

I grew up a farmer and rancher. I definitely learned the value of being able to take pride is fixing something yourself. But, it also taught me early on, that you can only fight reoccurring issues for so long, before you realize that it would have been better off to cut your losses and get something better, more dependable, easier to maintain, and able to rely on it when you need it. 

I came to appreciate "Buy once; cry once".


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## Wow (Feb 21, 2022)

Yesterday he called again. Said the bar sprocket was worn out, Spur drive gone and he has decided to take the saw back to whoever he bought it from. I replied, Well THAT'S WHAT YOU get when you buy someones old crap. Then I added, For the price you get A LOT OF SAW with Echo. Haven't heard back. Today I bucked a huge Pine Tree. Someone asked, How did it go? I said, VERY FAST. The cs590 with the right bar and chain tuned correctly, is a Joy. When someone shows up to a big tree with a saw on a big tree, that tree will judge for it's self. .My brother runs a Sthil 391. With both saws hooked up to a 20 inch bar and sharp chain he can't out run me and me keeping up with him is no sweat. But, Speaking of sweat,,,,today here in the South it was actually warm enough to make me break a sweat. In February. Beautiful day. A great day to be working. At 75 there's not going to be a lot more of these left. I'm getting the last drops of joy while I can. I worked late enough to use my Tractor lights picking up my wedges. Enjoy em while you gottem. Life is like watching bubbles breaking the surface. One day they just stop and all is quiet. Good day


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## JRenna (Feb 21, 2022)

I'd offer him one more piece of advice....

Go back and get that 4910 and have a dandy of a day helping him break it in!


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## Wow (Feb 22, 2022)

JRenna said:


> I'd offer him one more piece of advice....
> 
> Go back and get that 4910 and have a dandy of a day helping him break it in!


That's EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. But I don't want to buddy that close. Most people get a phone call. In real life I'm VERY private. Don't ever want anyone to get familiar enough to drive up without an appointment. After having my shop robbed three times I put an Appointment only rule in place. After I meet people in public places and get to REALLY TRUSTING them they can make an appointment. Yes even my family. I don't let anyone bring anyone else UNLESS they have also been vetted. Liars and thieves are less than Rabbit hair in Coyote poo. Eleven years ago my girlfriend had a thief Grandson. Stole 4 chainsaws and Pawned them. I banned him for life. She left over that and NOW that we are old as Dinosaurs tracks and she's a sickly ole gal I feel lucky she's gone. At my age I refuse to get old and the day I do will be the day I'll die. I go all day and people are shocked at my age. I'm health conscious. Up until Nov 2021 I was still cycling 20 miles in two hours. In fact my weakness is my back and all this work seems to be making that better. Being alone on my farm is heaven. I counsel by appointment by phone. Folks from all over the country THEN I get off the phone and Live. In the South It was warm today. A Great day to work. As you can see Im still up and going. I've still got to finish my Spanish Lessons. May ve up all night. Life is exciting. Have a great day.


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## askin4it (Feb 22, 2022)

Have you asked him why he returned the Echo and bought the Crapsman? He either isn't properly informed or just likes to have a reason to call IMO. Sometimes people need to hear / say out-loud that their choices are poorly made. 


pdqdl said:


> If someone is intruding on your time, unfairly or otherwise, it is disingenuous of you to suffer through an hour of headaches and not explain yourself. You lose the right of complaint after the fact, if you agreed to the situation going in to the conversation.


That's the hammer on the nail head right there.


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## Cricket (Feb 22, 2022)

Wow said:


> You ARE SO CORRECT. I spoke with another one of our counselors this afternoon about it. She said she just went through the same thing. A needy lady was calling her 5 or 6 times a day. We volunteer for a ministry and with all that is going on a LOT of people need a shower to cry on. We are now putting our cell phone on do not disturb. I really feel sorry for people but there is a limit. It's after Midnight and I JUST finished my day and down to rest. I actually worked for an hour using my tractor lights and a headlight. My day (my own time) is just now starting. I need to catch up on my laundry and study my on line classes. If im in bed by 0400 I'll be lucky. BUT THE REAL message is People need to remember to PLEASE BUY A DECENT CHAINSAW. I have a tree to drop and buck tomorrow. It's in heavy brush which needs to be cleared first for safety sake. I'll be using my echo cs 590 to drop. May buck with the 029 sthil and limb using a cs352. Tonight I experienced with a Brush saw. The one with a saw blade like the carpenters use. For removing non stressed small limbs that thing might be handy for old men with bad backs. I went down both sides of a tree removed the 1.5 thick ends of limbs and cut smaller stuff close to the tree. Ill try that some more to see if it speeds things up. My two brothers are short temper bull dogs. Ha. Ha. Unlike me. They tell people off fast. No one is exempt. In fact sometimes I don't want to work with them. Ha. Ha. In the meantime my main point is, Crappy chainsaws always Will be crappy. They don't get better with use or time. People keep thinking they can beat the system. As someone said. You get exactly what you pay for. Echo is a LOT of saw for the money. In the long run they are much cheaper than the crappy saws. Since 2015 I've used the cs590 to drop some huge trees without any problems. That's cheap and getting cheaper. Have a great day.View attachment 966514


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## Cricket (Feb 22, 2022)

All examples of the "put on your own oxygen mask first". I've been shoeing horses for forty years, and I could easily spend all my free time giving people free advice. I don't - and I catch flak for it - but you know... I can live with that. It is enlightening to realize, however, how many people who would never volunteer extra time where they work, expect me to spend hours for free telling how to fix something - and then when they don't do what I told them, blame me when it doesn't work (because they didn't actually do it).

I've learned to blithely not care - and remind people that I'm just as entitled to a life outside work, as they are.


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## djones (Feb 22, 2022)

I'm sure you'll find that anyone that has a skillset will attract users and abusers. I've had my share of them over the years and I stopped calling them back or the term today is ghosting them. I have my own circle of friends that are dependable and it is a small circle and I like it that way. What time I have on earth is valuable to me and my family. Not so much the rich schmuck that thinks it nice to buy old crap and have someone else fix it for him. My buddy has the same problem and is starting to find out how politely say NO. Mostly by referring questions to other contractors. He too is getting very selective in the jobs he accepts.


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## JimR (Feb 26, 2022)

Wow said:


> I've NEVER CHARGED anyone for advice. It seems he's running low on friends and I'm to soft hearted to bluntly handle this. Am I the ONLY GUY like me? My guess is no. I'd guess there's a lot of kind people who just can't hurt feelings. What shocked me is HIS DECISION. Why do people WHO CAN AFFORD a good saw buy CRAPPY saws????
> Years ago I had all Poulan 2150. No antivibe. 37 cc and cut well. I GAVE that saw away. I DID PUT MY phone on "Do not disturb". I'm a counselor and one thing I've noticed is a lot of people need someone ELSE to validate them before they can feel good about themselves. I think the best thing about THIS POST is THAT maybe SOMEONE ELSE will read this and NOT be compelled to BUY that CRAPPY saw just to save a few bucks UP FRONT. In the beginning SPEND more and SAVE MORE in the long run. That's a good point. Somewhere, someone might be thinking about buying a saw. I HOPE they but a GOOD BRAND that will work for a LONG TIME trouble free. Crappy saws might seem cheap but THEY are expensive in the long run. IMHO. good day. .


You sound like me. I have a neighbor that used to call me all the time for everything like information or the worst. I ran my JD diesel out of fuel and it won't start. He did this 4x in one year. I finally shed myself of him because he was too cheap to pay me what my time was worth. This guy has money.


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## Gabriel1982 (Mar 10, 2022)

Wow said:


> A month or so ago someone phoned me asking advice on buying a saw for his home use..I said, I LOVE my Echo cs352 and my Echo cs490...After his constant calling he finally made a deal on a 352 and loved it for a few days BUT decided he needed a bigger saw..SO.. he bought a Echo cs4910. For a few days that was "The Saw",, then he bought an old used Crafstman 1842.. I've have not seen that saw but I know about the Poulan 4218. I'm guessing it's the same or almost the same saw..SO he took the Echo back and got his money. TODAY he called again. THIS time he needs advise how to change the Spur Drive and choose the right Spark Plug.. I helped him for abut an hour. This guy has plenty of money BUT pinches pennies..I guess it's a habit..Years ago I learned MY TIME is valuable..IF someone has the funds to buy a GOOD NEW saw why in the world buy headaches..UNLESS you just love working on stuff.. WHEN I was younger I loved fixing stuff BUT at my age It's become a JOB..I'll help anyone if I can BUT...It seems insane to return a new Echo and buy a USED Crafstman or poulan then tie others up on the phone when THEY have work to do....IF you know you can afford it NEW ECHO is always a better choice than USED Crafstman or Poulan.. IMHO...This guy is almost as old as me and I am afraid he will bug the crap out of me over his crap saw. I can't hurt his feelings so now I suffer along with him..I KNOW there are OTHERS like me in this world..I don't like getting dragged into more work when it's totally unnecessary..Welcome to the world of CRAPPY SAWS. I think it's BEST to buy a GOOD one to start with....Ha. Ha. Call me a SNOB but I choose Echo or Sthil because I DON'T want to work on Saws all the time...Someone say Amen,,preach it brother.. Ha Ha..


Why would you hurt his feelings if you tell the guy "Buy a good quality product,I have to work and earn money to make a living!" If this situation happen to me I wouldn't be that polite at all. If he was a poor guy struggling ,yeah,MAYBE ,I would waste my time once or twice. But after that: " go see a mechanic,I'm starving over here,along with my wife and kids!"


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## cookies (Mar 11, 2022)

I simply tell folks to google search specific things so they can spend their time looking it up and explain i can do it but you need to drop it off and xxx is my rate plus parts. Most of the folks that call me now just say to fix it and barely ask questions outside of what was it. At a minimum I expect a case of beer for my time for a friendly help/advice session, I don't drink but I also never need to buy beer for holiday get togethers.


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