# how would i go about felling a 100 foot eucalyptus with a 41cc saw with a 16 bar?



## voxac30dude (Nov 18, 2009)

i really need some advice on how to do it. im running a chisel set up not semi and use a fullsized 16 bar not a lo pro and it is a .325 set up. the saw is a husqvarna 435. any help would do. this is a big job that i have the man power for but not saw power. i wish i had a stihl 460 mag for this job.


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## Tree Pig (Nov 18, 2009)

any Home Depots around you can rent a 64 cc Makita/Dolmar for like $40 a day.


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## scotvl (Nov 18, 2009)

rent/borrow the proper saw for the job


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 18, 2009)

I"m going to assume that the 100' Euc is larger in diameter than 16" so I would suggest getting a larger saw with a bar long enough to allow you to make the face and backcut without having to cut from either side. Yes, you can accomplish felling the tree with a 16" bar, but felling a 100' tree with a 16" bar can be tricky for someone who hasn't done it before.

As Stihl-O has mentioned, I would look into renting a larger saw for the day.


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## Rftreeman (Nov 18, 2009)

you've failed to mention the diameter of this 100' tree, that is more of a concern than height....


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## GlennG (Nov 19, 2009)

If you dont know how to fell it hire a pro. An internet website isnt going to make you competent. Safety trumps economy 100% of the the time. Dot be cheap hire a "Tree cutting service"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLjbO1tyElE


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 19, 2009)

OMG James!! I wish I could show this to tons of people...Thanks GlennG!!

Jeff


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## voxac30dude (Nov 19, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> I"m going to assume that the 100' Euc is larger in diameter than 16" so I would suggest getting a larger saw with a bar long enough to allow you to make the face and backcut without having to cut from either side. Yes, you can accomplish felling the tree with a 16" bar, but felling a 100' tree with a 16" bar can be tricky for someone who hasn't done it before.
> 
> As Stihl-O has mentioned, I would look into renting a larger saw for the day.



we are verry limited to what is for rent at our home depots in hawaii. that why im asking these questions. we have limited access to big saws around here. so at least giving me some advice on cutting this tree would help.


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## deevo (Nov 19, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> we are verry limited to what is for rent at our home depots in hawaii. that why im asking these questions. we have limited access to big saws around here. so at least giving me some advice on cutting this tree would help.



Not a slam against you........but your best bet would be to invest in a bigger saw and use this job to pay for it, your going to need it sooner or later.:greenchainsaw:


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## Timbeaux (Nov 19, 2009)

*Buy the saw!*

Deevo's right. Lot's of us cut bigger timber than the saws we have but if you don't know how to safely do it (not meant as an insult) no ones going to tell you as we would feel responsible if you got yourself or someone else hurt or killed. I will tell you that, imo, if the tree's dead or hollow ( i don't think you mentioned that) there is no acceptable way to drop that spar with too small a tool. Best of luck and Happy Holidays.:agree2:


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## voxac30dude (Nov 19, 2009)

the tree is dead. it has been dead for a long time. so how big of a saw should i get. 60-80cc? how big should the bar be? are there any really powerful saws under $700. thanks for the help. im totally a noob, please forgive me.


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## NCTREE (Nov 20, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> the tree is dead. it has been dead for a long time. so how big of a saw should i get. 60-80cc? how big should the bar be? are there any really powerful saws under $700. thanks for the help. im totally a noob, please forgive me.



It's been dead for a long time???? RED FLAG! Don't be a hero, someones liable to get killed.


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 20, 2009)

WHAT IS THE DIAMETER OF THE SPAR???

How could we possibly suggest a saw/bar combo for the job without knowing what we are working with?!?!

if it's a 20" DBH, get a 24" bar on a 60cc saw. If it's a 72" DBH, get a 7-ft bar on a 100+cc saw...

My dad always told me: "if you can't find the time to do it right, when are you going to find the time to do it over?" Same theory applies here, except that you could get killed or trash some property in the process. 

I'm not trying to be an a-hole, but more info is required to make appropriate recommendations, and all of this is mute if you don't know the proper techniques to fell a tree of this size.

Please tell me you have a nice large, open drop zone.


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## madmax (Nov 20, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> the tree is dead. it has been dead for a long time. so how big of a saw should i get. 60-80cc? how big should the bar be? are there any really powerful saws under $700. thanks for the help. im totally a noob, please forgive me.


 I have to agree with NCTREE, Hire a Pro. The dead tree's are the deadliest of all!


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 20, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> the tree is dead. it has been dead for a long time. so how big of a saw should i get. 60-80cc? how big should the bar be? are there any really powerful saws under $700. thanks for the help. im totally a noob, please forgive me.



Screw that, get in an expert to drop it for you. This tree could cost you EVERYTHING.

Get the big saw

get the big bar

get the fast cutting chain

Get killed before it even looks used.


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## NCTREE (Nov 20, 2009)

It would help if you could get some pics, then we could give you some better advice. No one here wants to read about you in the injuries and fatalities section.

I would definatly put a rope in the top to help pull the tree over, the thing is you have to get the rope in the tree without climbing it. A throw line will do the trick for you.


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## Tree Dr. (Nov 20, 2009)

Hire a pro arborist or timber faller to put the tree down and make the big cuts. Likely cheaper than buying a saw esp. for just one tree. Use your smaller saw and manpower to clean up. Falling a large dead tree with a big new saw and limited experience in a residential area is NOT the way.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 20, 2009)

If your still thinking of doing this read this first 
2008 Fireline Fatality Report http://www.nps.gov/fire/download/fir_wil_investigation_DutchCreek_report.pdf 



> had bar lengths of 28” and 32”; the diameter of Tree 1 at the point the cut was made was 36.7”. Regardless of which saw was used, the sawyer would have had to cut from both sides of the stump in order to complete the undercut. During this process, the sawyer experienced difficulty in obtaining a single plane, or hinge, across the diameter of the stump. This hinge is critical to the process that directs the tree into the undercut and the intended lay.
> Closer inspection revealed that the sloping section of the undercut was not cleaned sufficiently as to provide a single plane across the diameter of the stump. The stump exhibits two distinct horizontal (gunning) cuts and two sloping cuts. Multiple Dutchmen that would have altered the holding wood were also present.




Noob with a 16" saw 100 foot dead tree, that has been dead for a "long time"
Ever though about were them top pieces will land if that tree shatters on the way down? 

Actually the ridiculousness of this situation has my Troll/flamer alert beeping. 
:notrolls2:


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## voxac30dude (Nov 21, 2009)

the tree measured 60 inches and 7/10ths diameter. the tree needs to be felled not cut from the top down in sections. there is a huge open space for it to fall and no houses for it to reach.


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 21, 2009)

My reccommendation:

Stihl MS880 w/ Wrap Handle, running .404 pitch .063 gauge Stihl RC Full Chisel on a 5 foot bar, a half dozen wedges with a hatchet or small axe, and YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.

With as much inviction as simple text can convey: IF YOU CAN NOT DO IT, DO NOT DO IT.

:deadhorse:


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 21, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> the tree measured 60 inches and 7/10ths diameter. the tree needs to be felled not cut from the top down in sections. there is a huge open space for it to fall and no houses for it to reach.



damned if that 7/10th of an inch is just to far over the limit:greenchainsaw:



seriously Dude you need a minimum of a 32" saw and the balls and experience to run it.

please set up a video camera and share with us if you decide to do this.

Oh you might want to leave a note on the camera with instructions and the URL to this post.


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## NCTREE (Nov 21, 2009)

I know that certain trees (ones that are brittle to begin with) once dead can start cracking and splitting inside. If you go to back cut it, it could barber chair on you and thats no good at all. I've seen guys strap the trunks before cutting them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hEfav9ZwI


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## Taxmantoo (Nov 21, 2009)

NCTREE said:


> It's been dead for a long time???? RED FLAG! Don't be a hero, someones liable to get killed.




+1.

Let us assume a little bitty 200lb branch breaks off near the top. 
That's 20,000 ft-lb of energy. If it lands on your head, they will be using tattoos/scars on your legs to try to identify the corpse. 

In addition, the trunk is huge and practically petrified. When it starts to fall, you won't have a couple of minutes to finish neatening up the hinge, you just have to start running and hope you ran in the right direction. But the best way to kill you will be to break off a brittle branch and drop it on you from on high. 

Watch the video below, it's on giving yourself some chance of getting out of the way of falling limbs:

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/council/newsletters/may06/may06.html


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## Taxmantoo (Nov 21, 2009)

You know, if it can safely fall in any direction and you can get some dynamite and a blasting permit, there's no need to be within 300' of it when it comes down. Just thinking outside the box here.


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## NCTREE (Nov 21, 2009)

Don't get me wrong I don't recomend you doing any of this. I just wanted to share that awesome video. I wonder if these guy are on AS??? I agree with everyone else, hire a pro.


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## matt9923 (Nov 21, 2009)

16" bar, you could cut in everywhere on that three and it might not fall, then what will you do?


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## Taxmantoo (Nov 21, 2009)

matt9923 said:


> 16" bar, you could cut in everywhere on that three and it might not fall, then what will you do?



Notch it big enough to get the saw inside the tree, but that's *totally insane* on a dead or unhealthy tree.


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## matt9923 (Nov 21, 2009)

taxmantoo said:


> Notch it big enough to get the saw inside the tree, but that's *totally insane* on a dead or unhealthy tree.



It can be done but, if that's the biggest saw he has he doesn't have enough experience to go near that tree.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 21, 2009)

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!! i was arong. i said the wrong measurement. if you were to take and ruler a measure the tree's stump strait across it would measure 30 inches. the measurement i gave you was wrong that was just the tape measure going around the circle of the tree not across. so heres where im going with this. so 16 + 16 = 32 so there for im going to make my face cuts half on one side half on the other. probably gonna bore cut through the middle and take most of the heart wood out and then finish the cut by taking the strap off and allowing the hinge to safely bring the tree down. 

now correct me if im wrong but if you have a 30inches strait across you wanna leave yourself a good 2 - 2 1/2 inch hinge on the tree right?


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 21, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!! i was arong. i said the wrong measurement. if you were to take and ruler a measure the tree's stump strait across it would measure 30 inches. the measurement i gave you was wrong that was just the tape measure going around the circle of the tree not across. so heres where im going with this. so 16 + 16 = 32 so there for im going to make my face cuts half on one side half on the other. probably gonna bore cut through the middle and take most of the heart wood out and then finish the cut by taking the strap off and allowing the hinge to safely bring the tree down.
> 
> now correct me if im wrong but if you have a 30inches strait across you wanna leave yourself a good 2 - 2 1/2 inch hinge on the tree right?



30" *3.14 is 94" are you sure it's a 16" or could it be a 12"
opcorn: were waiting to see the video


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## jburlingham (Nov 21, 2009)

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.....

for a 60" tree your going to need a 32" bar in my opinion.

However like you have been told dead trees are deadly. (keep reading)

I by no means am a pro, I have simply been a firewood cutter for the last 18 years of my life, in which we cut mostly dead standing trees, and tons of them.

along with heavy limbs that can and do drop from dead trees, the worst part IMHO is that dead trees are very unpredictable. They may just go well before you're ready due to hollow or rotted sections, etc. 

Once you have cut for a while and get a handle on the dead trees issues you start to look for some tell tale signs but you cant see everything.

If you do attempt this yourself *and I'm not suggesting it*, I would be very careful and expect the worst.

Sorry missed the update that it's a 30" I replied based on a 60"
Still unpredictable and dangerous, but changes the saw a lot could go 60cc's or so with an 18


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## matt9923 (Nov 21, 2009)

jburlingham said:


> Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.....
> 
> for a 60" tree your going to need a 32" bar in my opinion.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't do it if i expected to die


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## jburlingham (Nov 21, 2009)

matt9923 said:


> I wouldn't do it if i expected to die



Kind of where I was driving to


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## TreePointer (Nov 21, 2009)

*More math...*

Wait a minute. If the circumference is 60.7", then the diameter would only be 19.3".

circumference = 2 * Pi * r
diameter = circumference / Pi

Setting aside all other concerns about safety, experience, and the condition of the tree, it's not unreasonable for 16" bar to be used to drop a 20" diameter tree. Without knowing more details, I'd still recommend a pro.


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## Wishie22 (Nov 21, 2009)

You have a husky 435 (41cc) with a 16" bar chisel chain. I would not be boring out the center of the tree, the tree is dead and may have rotten areas in the trunk. 

You should check on the price of a lager Husky saw (if that is your preference), for future use as well. 455 Rancher (55cc 20"bar) serves allot of homeowner/firewood cutters/landowners quite will for a inexpensive saw (you get what you pay for in a non-pro though). May fit your use, cost is around $400 here. 

How many trees have you fell? Felling a tree is one of the most dangerous parts of tree cutting for several reasons. Careful of what they call widow-makers - branch/parts of the tree falling from above.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 21, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> the tree measured 60 inches and 7/10ths diameter.



Where the hell did you find a tape measure divided into 10ths?


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## logging22 (Nov 21, 2009)

Dont do it bro. Way too dangerous. My .02


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 21, 2009)

Not trying to be an A-hole, but even asking this question points to the fact that you may not be able to handle this situation.

IMO, a 16" bar was not created for felling. I run a 16" on my 200T, and I don't fell trees with the 200. If you need to fell a tree, you need a bigger saw, period. If you want to limb out the tree after its' down, transition to the 16".

And again, IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE FOR EXPERIENCE.

T


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## outofmytree (Nov 22, 2009)

Vox if you havent already got the message then please follow this link. 


http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=115879


I believe this tree is too much for you and should be felled by a professional. I don't want to read about you on the accidents/fatalities forum.


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## matt9923 (Nov 22, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Vox if you havent already got the message then please follow this link.
> 
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=115879
> ...



I cut trees everyday and those stories even get me thinking how easily I could die. 
Take every precaution possible and pay attention.


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## ozzy42 (Nov 22, 2009)

:agree2:With the others.
DON'T DO IT For a little bit more than the price of renting a saw big enough for the job ,you could probably find a pro climber that can fell the tree ,PROPERLY and SAFELY.

I don't know what the economics are with tree work is there,but 10% should be enough to pay for the felling if it is just a one cut, wam bam thank you mam drop.
Of course if there is more to it than that then it would be more money.

Example:
If you are getting a grand for this big tree,you will make out fine giving the feller a 100 dollar bill.
If you can't make out doing it this way.....WALK AWAY.
I have done this for many a lawn jockey,and everybody walked away happy.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 22, 2009)

Put down your saw and step away from the tree and nobody will get hurt!


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 22, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> :agree2:With the others.
> DON'T DO IT For a little bit more than the price of renting a saw big enough for the job ,you could probably find a pro climber that can fell the tree ,PROPERLY and SAFELY.
> 
> I don't know what the economics are with tree work is there,but 10% should be enough to pay for the felling if it is just a one cut, wam bam thank you mam drop.
> ...



Kinda what happened to me, I hired a pair of brothers to help do a Job They were experienced, but had no equipment or insurance, I did. next thing I know I was in the tree business, and I was one more step out of the lawn Jockey stage of my landscape business. I learned a lot from those guys over the next 4 years.

I don't do tree service nor mow grass now days, Im just a crazy artist with a big saw and a love for unusual wood. 
I cut that big Cherry by myself, but not before I studied the tree and made proper preparation. 

I intend on continuing to be among the living crazy artist for quite some time.


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## 056 kid (Nov 26, 2009)

Whack it down, if you cant, sell the saws.


Too many of you are over sawed and under maned, the dangerous stupid type lacking in the common sense department...


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## porch monkey (Nov 26, 2009)

056 kid said:


> Whack it down, if you cant, sell the saws.
> 
> 
> Too many of you are over sawed and under maned, the dangerous stupid type lacking in the common sense department...


Maybe you should go cut it for him, Slick? You've got that big saw and no job so it's not like you don't have time to strut your stuff.


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## matt9923 (Nov 26, 2009)

porch monkey said:


> Maybe you should go cut it for him, Slick? You've got that big saw and no job so it's not like you don't have time to strut your stuff.



:sword:


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## 056 kid (Nov 26, 2009)

porch monkey said:


> Maybe you should go cut it for him, Slick? You've got that big saw and no job so it's not like you don't have time to strut your stuff.



Buy my plane ticket & il do it...


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## isaaccarlson (Nov 26, 2009)

*Personally, I have never seen a tree with a 100' base*

and I would not want to go through those 1000 or so tanks of gas to try and cut it down with a 16" bar. You need a bigger saw man.


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## 056 kid (Nov 26, 2009)

the tree is not even double the 16'' bar...................

maybe a few more............ to drive this home.....................


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## Bearcreek (Nov 27, 2009)

treesquirrel said:


> Where the hell did you find a tape measure divided into 10ths?



They make tape measures for surveyors that are divided into 10ths. I bought one one time by mistake.


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## matt9923 (Nov 27, 2009)

id come drop it for ya for $50 if I were closer.


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## teamtree (Nov 30, 2009)

Don't let these guys talk you out of cutting that big tree with a little saw.

It sounds like you have the confidence and the know how to do it....so go for it.

There are several good books on tree felling and they are great for guys who want to skip the experience and go right for the big stuff....read one and look at the illustrations and then go for it.

I would also like to help you give a price for the tree as well. Can you give us pictures of the set up and layout?


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## teamtree (Nov 30, 2009)

A good feller could knock out 48" DBH trees with a 16" bar....bigger if the middle is good and rotted out.


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## matt9923 (Nov 30, 2009)

teamtree said:


> A good feller could knock out 48" DBH trees with a 16" bar....bigger if the middle is good and rotted out.



You wouldn't see a "good feller" doing that.


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## teamtree (Nov 30, 2009)

Bull####.....I know guys that cut 40"-60" trees with 20" bars all day long. 

Why pack a 40" bar all over the woods?

Now I am sure you can find a few exceptions to every rule....but how many guys doing residential tree care are falling hollow trees next to houses?

I was being sarcastic to begin with but since you went down that road....even if the tree were hollow.....why would it be a problem to cut it with a smaller bar....It would not scare me....especially if the drop zone was wide open.....not that I am that great...but if you know what you are doing it should not be a problem....but yes accidents do happen. 

If you have to be told how to do it....then you need to get a little more experience.

Many loggers cut out the heart so there is no holding wood through the center.....the same concept of cutting a hollow tree. Seems pretty basic of a procedure for there to be much debate.

Remember, I did not say "an idiot can do this"....I said a good feller....which means someone who will look the whole situation over and come up with a good felling plan that weighs all risks, looks at all aspects of the tree and landing zone and weighs out the "what ifs" before he does anything.


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## Wishie22 (Nov 30, 2009)

Used a small saw for years, pushing it too, thinking why do I need a big saw this one is just fine. You are correct most still push the bar length limits, but with experience and knowledge. With more knowledge and experience I have to say I appreciate the right tool for the job. 

The saw HP and cutting ability may put the operator in harms way, barber-chair for example. Cutting one side of the trunk at a time keeps the operator in the danger zone longer, dead tree dead wood and dead branches.


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## Bermie (Nov 30, 2009)

In all of this discussion, no-one has mentioned the almost total unreliability of holding strength of hingewood in a dead tree.

You could get all the cuts set up just perfectly, wedges and all... and when it starts to go, the hingewood can break or shatter way before the face cuts meet, and the whole thing can go pear-shaped in a split second, twisting, splitting, going the wrong way...the horrifying posibilities are numerous!


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## NCTREE (Nov 30, 2009)

Bermie said:


> In all of this discussion, no-one has mentioned the almost total unreliability of holding strength of hingewood in a dead tree.
> 
> You could get all the cuts set up just perfectly, wedges and all... and when it starts to go, the hingewood can break or shatter way before the face cuts meet, and the whole thing can go pear-shaped in a split second, twisting, splitting, going the wrong way...the horrifying posibilities are numerous!



The obvious is always understated

Jeez and were suppose to be professionals. :monkey:


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## 056 kid (Nov 30, 2009)

Bermie said:


> In all of this discussion, no-one has mentioned the almost total unreliability of holding strength of hingewood in a dead tree.
> 
> You could get all the cuts set up just perfectly, wedges and all... and when it starts to go, the hingewood can break or shatter way before the face cuts meet, and the whole thing can go pear-shaped in a split second, twisting, splitting, going the wrong way...the horrifying posibilities are numerous!



Ya, no, a half competent timber faller will pick up on any forces that will affect the tree in any particular manner, thus compensating for said things with a trick out of his big bag of solutions.


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## Burvol (Nov 30, 2009)

teamtree said:


> Bull####.....I know guys that cut 40"-60" trees with 20" bars all day long.
> 
> Why pack a 40" bar all over the woods?
> 
> ...



Cutting 40-60" trees "All day long" with a 20" bar is dumb. 

I could just laugh at the site of grown ass men stooped over a 20" bar, working those big sticks up!


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 1, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Cutting 40-60" trees "All day long" with a 20" bar is dumb.
> 
> I could just laugh at the site of grown ass men stooped over a 20" bar, working those big sticks up!


 yeah thats bout what Id call it too.


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## Bermie (Dec 1, 2009)

056 kid said:


> Ya, no, a half competent timber faller will pick up on any forces that will affect the tree in any particular manner, thus compensating for said things with a trick out of his big bag of solutions.



Yes, but he's NOT!!!


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## canopyboy (Dec 1, 2009)

NCTREE said:


> I know that certain trees (ones that are brittle to begin with) once dead can start cracking and splitting inside. If you go to back cut it, it could barber chair on you and thats no good at all. I've seen guys strap the trunks before cutting them.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hEfav9ZwI



Dang, good video. Best part of this thread so far.....


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