# I think all of the salesy advertising crud is overwhelming most people these days.



## ForTheArborist (Nov 10, 2011)

Advertising use to be simple. It used to apply right to the genuine senses of awe. A finely crafted sign or ornamental structure said so much to the human appreciation senses that the phoneys are only trying to say today. And that worked for hundreds of years. It's no different now.

Advertising now seems so much like a kids game of colorful, fruity, one liners based in deception not genuine commitment to integrity and service. On top of that, there is so much of it that it's a pain to look through it all to find what you want and is safe to do business with. That would be a fine service with a fine experience included. 

My honest opinion about this whole market is like it's one big tree with each of its leaves being an advertisement. The problem is the leaves are piled up so high around the tree that the tree is completely blocked by the leaves. 

People are offering services missing the point that service is a service not a gangster hit on the community for all the dough. People that have the money for services are kind of being marginalized with the idea that a service is based in part to the human sense of willfully contributing to people's well being, and so customers are being forced to be skeptics about all services' intentions. That's because nobody wants to be de-pantsed by some "sociopathic outsider" with a license to stiff people out of their money while calling it all "a business." Business is something between human beings not sociopaths degenerates and human beings. 

So anyway, I'm one to think that I should take out all of the high techy looks of the ads, and take things back a notch to the way advertising was done before this world wide panoramic collage of advertising was started. I'm going to do a little research in the area of how a person's presence to the community was made known for the past hundreds of years, and mix it in with what is going on in our times now. It's kind of like "organic advertising" as opposed to "fast food advertising." 

I'm thinking a website should look simple, like the commonly known book's pages. Anybody able to make money can grasp that. I'm sticking with the basic but classical colors like leather, wood, gold, silver, and bronze in the trims. Artistic creation not photographs or computer generated imagery, and I mean art that make any mind have to wonder how was somebody able to craft something so well finished. They'll intuitively know it was something done by an absolutely patient and masterful hand. "Like gold coins on the pages, and no need for more than that."

And that would be that. Let the rest happen on its own. People will naturally go for what is being *offered* in the most respectful and dignified way unlike the what the colorful advertising zoo of forceful ads does to everybody. And ya, that's just it. It needs to do for someone not to someone or at someone. It might take a trick or two to pull that one off.


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## lxt (Nov 14, 2011)

Agree.........but the problem is with the advertisers, they try & up-sell everybody pitting them against each other by whatever means necessary: go with the color ad, bigger is better, so & so did this, ad this & ad that & before you know it......Bam, everyone has a similar type of advertising & it all becomes cookie cutter!

Even the Hacks jump on the band wagon & Now the problem customers have is who is the real deal........!

One thing I know for sure is that I will not ever be using Yellow book for any advertising, Ill keep the reason under my hat for Now & will only answer questions in PM format............!

I think the simplicity of business advertising was when word of mouth was prevalent, now everyone wants to sit at home & surf the internet thinking "they have to be good" look at that website!!! what a world...........its all about the money & this will be the down fall of this country......every business, politician, sports player & so on wants as much as they can get......mainly cause its needed to survive (in some instances) but mostly cause of greed!!! what happens when we out price ourselves & no one can afford what we`re selling? its a trickle all around effect & everyone wants their "undue" (un-necessary) share!!



LXT...............


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2011)

We don't advertise. 
Jeff


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## CTTS (Nov 14, 2011)

How did you get your first calls and customers then? You did some type of advertisement, whether you spread the word yourself or looked for the work. Don't you have a logo or phone number on your vehicles or share a business card with customers? 

And a nice website does not mean they are the best or experts but it does show professionalism and effort on their part by providing to the public what their services are. The internet has replaced the newspaper, at least where I am at. Facebook, Craigslist and Google are big in my area and most areas I would say. how will someone expect to get a call for a big contract across the state when they do not know you exist....unless you neighbor spread the word


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2011)

CTTS said:


> How did you get your first calls and customers then? You did some type of advertisement, whether you spread the word yourself or looked for the work. Don't you have a logo or phone number on your vehicles or share a business card with customers?
> 
> And a nice website does not mean they are the best or experts but it does show professionalism and effort on their part by providing to the public what their services are. The internet has replaced the newspaper, at least where I am at. Facebook, Craigslist and Google are big in my area and most areas I would say. how will someone expect to get a call for a big contract across the state when they do not know you exist....unless you neighbor spread the word



You obviously have not heard of us. Like I said, we don't advertise, we market. 
Jeff


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## CTTS (Nov 14, 2011)

How did you get your first calls though, before you built a reputation or grew your business? Advertising is more expensive than marketing but marketing is a whole lot more work, depending on how much or what type of work it is you're trying to get. Word of mouth and marketing on your own can slow a business expansion in this generation, but like I said, it all depends on how much you want grow and expand. I do a combination of both for residential & commercial customers, utilities, state and federal contracts. You just have to be careful with advertising and do your research first, some methods are more effective than others depending on your region, but the internet is big when it comes to advertising today, obviously....we are on it right now.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2011)

CTTS said:


> How did you get your first calls though, before you built a reputation or grew your business? Advertising is more expensive than marketing but marketing is a whole lot more work, depending on how much or what type of work it is you're trying to get. Word of mouth and marketing on your own can slow a business expansion in this generation, but like I said, it all depends on how much you want grow and expand. I do a combination of both for residential & commercial customers, utilities, state and federal contracts. You just have to be careful with advertising and do your research first, some methods are more effective than others depending on your region, but the internet is big when it comes to advertising today, obviously....we are on it right now.



I don't own the company. Pay attention. You don't go and advertise with all the yahoo's,,You market. That means you hire people that fit in your company. you employ people that fit your design. I climbed for 28 years and then made the move. 
BTW, I don't need you to tell me what to do.
Jeff


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## CTTS (Nov 14, 2011)

Not telling you what to do at all sir, just adding my 2 cents to the forum. That's what is for, a great way to learn from others on what to do and what not to do to get where you want to go. Some may want to do residential work and be out in the field all there lives, others may want to grow or take on higher positions. Many keep bringing up word of mouth and talk smack about advertising, when advertising will only help grow, if you do it right way and with the right ones. I made my move 2 years ago, at age 27, not having climbed a tree before in my life, but that does not mean the personnel I hire don't. And as good as they may be, they don't make my business grow with their performance, they do create a good reputation though. Google, Yahoo, free ads such as Craigslist and others are a fast and effective word of mouth for me.


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## EagleTree (Jul 4, 2012)

CTTS said:


> Not telling you what to do at all sir, just adding my 2 cents to the forum. That's what is for, a great way to learn from others on what to do and what not to do to get where you want to go. Some may want to do residential work and be out in the field all there lives, others may want to grow or take on higher positions. Many keep bringing up word of mouth and talk smack about advertising, when advertising will only help grow, if you do it right way and with the right ones. I made my move 2 years ago, at age 27, not having climbed a tree before in my life, but that does not mean the personnel I hire don't. And as good as they may be, they don't make my business grow with their performance, they do create a good reputation though. Google, Yahoo, free ads such as Craigslist and others are a fast and effective word of mouth for me.



Now I remember why I never posted here much.. 

Sir, you need to be a well established business owner with very specific business practices to ask a question here. God forbid you be a man looking for advice on how to grow a small tree crew into a profitable, respectable business. I must warn you, if you do ask a question, the smallest admission of a practice not approved by our community will result in you being flamed by internet "arborist" tough guys.. so watch it buddy!!

To the original poster, do not be afraid to knock on a door when you see a dead tree, if you are slow, cruise neighborhoods (omg wtf hack!! hack!! etc) and look for people that need tree work. Do what you need to do to stay working, just give people a quality service for a fair price. The referrals will soon come, I did it myself, in a very saturated market. I ask every customer if I can use them as a reference, as long as I did my job right, they always say yes..

The point is.. if you do good work for people, use those people as your advertisers, I dont pay to put an ad next to 4 other company's.. 

Another tip: dont take people here seriously. without checking my post count or old posts like people looking to flame me will, i saw the bs here and took off. 3 or 4 years later I make a good living as a business owner, with people calling me because a friend/neighbor knows me..


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## EagleTree (Jul 4, 2012)

BTW my post was intended for the original poster :msp_rolleyes:


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## Gologit (Jul 4, 2012)

EagleTree said:


> Now I remember why I never posted here much..
> 
> Sir, you need to be a well established business owner with very specific business practices to ask a question here. God forbid you be a man looking for advice on how to grow a small tree crew into a profitable, respectable business. I must warn you, if you do ask a question, the smallest admission of a practice not approved by our community will result in you being flamed by internet "arborist" tough guys.. so watch it buddy!!
> 
> ...



If you dislike it it here so much, why did you come back? Not bagging on you, just curious.


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 4, 2012)

We don't advertise either other than driving down the street with our name on the trucks most of our business comes from referals or just random people stopping at jobsites asking for an estimate. Like Jeff said "market".


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## jason020 (Jan 21, 2013)

hi.. I am agree with you as I always say marketing is a great thing and a marketer is very sharp minded.. He knows that how to market their products with people .. And I think you have experience about it as you say a lot of things about marketing in your post..


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 21, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> You obviously have not heard of us. Like I said, we don't advertise, we market.
> Jeff



About to do some myself. 

I have a few hundred contacts (clients, repeat clients, potential customers I have prepared bids for) that I will be contacting with a mailing. First time I have done that, but it is targeted at not only reminding them what I have done for them but also that there is an immediate need to address a bark beetle out break in the area in ponderosa pine. I am going through my files (yes, I keep paper files as well as electronic) and pulling all contacts that have pines on their property. 

Also, I have started a census of currently infested pines, in which I systematically cover my area and photograph and take measurements of the infested trees, as well as knock on doors. Targeted marketing, not blind advertising. 

I do have a yellow page add (recently updated) and website (which I have to update -- not touched in two years).


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Mar 5, 2013)

EagleTree said:


> Now I remember why I never posted here much..
> 
> Sir, you need to be a well established business owner with very specific business practices to ask a question here. God forbid you be a man looking for advice on how to grow a small tree crew into a profitable, respectable business. I must warn you, if you do ask a question, the smallest admission of a practice not approved by our community will result in you being flamed by internet "arborist" tough guys.. so watch it buddy!!



I agree, just starting out I posted a question and got lit up big time. Here I am a few months later, doing what you suggested, and its working. Thanks for the reassurance. Someone is going to flame my reply to you, but haters gonna hate.


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