# Why do Amateurs think they know best???



## Rounder (Mar 22, 2013)

In general, the most arrogant/cocky/over-confident fallers I've encountered are the ones that tear up their saws/bars and make big messes. The best fallers I've worked with have all been easy going guys who didn't talk themselves up, ever. Seems like a pattern that doesn't break. 

I like to keep the super-saws away from my strip...I'll saw with those "slow" older guys.


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## TreePointer (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm no pro logger, but I think you did the right thing. When you dealing with stubborn or foolish people, often the best thing to do kindly speak your peace and walk away.


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## Gologit (Mar 22, 2013)

Rounder said:


> In general, the most arrogant/cocky/over-confident fallers I've encountered are the ones that tear up their saws/bars and make big messes. The best fallers I've worked with have all been easy going guys who didn't talk themselves up, ever. Seems like a pattern that doesn't break.
> 
> I like to keep the super-saws away from my strip...I'll saw with those "slow" older guys.



Yup...there's a reason they got older. Some guys don't.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm a know-it-all amateur and I found this post very offensive! I am, however, most definitely old _and_ slow:biggrin:


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## Gologit (Mar 22, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> I'm a know-it-all amateur and I found this post very offensive! I am, however, most definitely old _and_ slow:biggrin:



I'm glad you brought that up before the rest of us did.


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## Gologit (Mar 22, 2013)

templar said:


> Well I'm still alive and know when to walk away.
> 
> 
> I was a full time faller but can't do it full time now as my elbows are shot but I still cut mainly for myself and to help out folks when they need it



No harm done. Stick around, this is a pretty good place. Where do you work when you're working?


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## Rounder (Mar 22, 2013)

templar said:


> Here in the Highlands and in NC and VA when I'm stateside......I'm married to a Virginia belle sorry bout the post it came over wrong me thinks .......just don't like folks being hurt due to folkjs doing things that avoidable



Stick around, I wasn't knocking on you, just adding my bit to something that a lot of us encounter on the job.


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## 4x4American (Mar 22, 2013)

templar said:


> Here in the Highlands and in NC and VA when I'm stateside......I'm married to a Virginia belle sorry bout the post it came over wrong me thinks .......just don't like folks being hurt due to folkjs doing things that avoidable



Scottish Highlands?


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## hardpan (Mar 22, 2013)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers


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## RandyMac (Mar 23, 2013)

When you watch someone work, that is highly skilled and comfortable with the job, it appears to be easy, leading the ignorant to believe anyone should be able to just get to it. They need to watch a Snelling video.


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## floyd (Mar 23, 2013)

Because they read up on it at log your ground.com. You were the hands on part.


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> When you watch someone work, that is highly skilled and comfortable with the job, it appears to be easy, leading the ignorant to believe anyone should be able to just get to it. They need to watch a Snelling video.



The one where he drops the tree on his head? Thanks brother, you now owe me for one complete keyboard/monitor coffee spray removal. :msp_biggrin:


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## slowp (Mar 23, 2013)

You boys are very bad.

Nope, without a forester present, how can you ever figure out how to get a tree on the ground? Then out of the woods?  Paint and flagging, paint and flagging...


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2013)

Well I never have that problem maybe because I charge for treework I do however have those that ask 100 questions lol and try to answer before I do. On a few instances I had to put cones out with a sign no home owners allowed beyond this point lol. I really don't mind them watching as long at its at a distance determined by myself as safe!


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## paccity (Mar 23, 2013)

people can be dense . run in to folks getting in the way now and then , at the last city park job eventhough the park was closed and well marked they would pop up at the worst poss moment. had to have the police down there once. on residential jobs if they get in the way to much i'll just shut down and tell them if they don't stay out of the way we will pull out and they will be billed for the time there and travel and they can hire some one else. that works so far.


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> You boys are very bad.
> 
> Nope, without a forester present........



If we could only cut, skid, load and haul when the forester was present we'd be starting late, working 'til mid afternoon, and going home early. 

No, that isn't quite right...we'd also be shutting down for awhile in the middle of the day while the forester was out "checking things". "Checking things" usually means they're having a nap in a shady quiet spot somewhere. :msp_biggrin:


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## slowp (Mar 23, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If we could only cut, skid, load and haul when the forester was present we'd be starting late, working 'til mid afternoon, and going home early.
> 
> No, that isn't quite right...we'd also be shutting down for awhile in the middle of the day while the forester was out "checking things". "Checking things" usually means they're having a nap in a shady quiet spot somewhere. :msp_biggrin:



I call it, _Checking Stuff_. And sometimes they are late because they've beat the crew up to the unit but then have to move the pickup because the Faller Gods need to park in that exact spot just because they can. They are late because the Donettos shipment hadn't arrived at the minimart on time.  

Then the forester has to go find another parking place and by that time, there are none left. So, she's either got to park 5 miles down the road, or get out the saw and cut out a spot and that makes her tired and in need of that nap. 

There!


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## northmanlogging (Mar 23, 2013)

I sincerely enjoy... being asked a question, and before I finish giving my answer being told I'm completely wrong  Makes it hard to edumacate people when they already believe they know everything, I'm learning to walk away and let them struggle or hurt themselves... maybe after a little while I'll come back and show them how I would have done it... Assuming they want to listen.


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## timberland ts (Mar 23, 2013)

As long as im not working in the adk park dont have to worry about foresters. The worst where the hos when i did storm work for the powercompany. Some one allways wanted to complain or tell you how to do it. Simple fix start up 70cc plus saw and just let it "warm up" for a while. If the were real jerks we would pack up and leave. Tell the line guys to put them on last.


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## roberte (Mar 23, 2013)

but thats how they did it on TV, in 44 minutes. I saw it. unbelieveable


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## roberte (Mar 23, 2013)

templar said:


> He been watching that logging show..........I forget what it called now :help:



No im mocking that show and any other DIY show


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## roberte (Mar 23, 2013)

well enough keyboard cutting. gotta go get hung up now.


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## echoshawn (Mar 23, 2013)

I find I make the worst falling mistakes when I get cocky.. Not taking the extra minute to look at where the tree really wants to go, and not realizing that there aren't enough wedges in that could make it go the way I want it too.
Seems the slower I go, the faster trees get on the ground, and into the truck..


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> I call it, _Checking Stuff_. And sometimes they are late because they've beat the crew up to the unit but then have to move the pickup because the Faller Gods need to park in that exact spot just because they can. They are late because the Donettos shipment hadn't arrived at the minimart on time.
> 
> Then the forester has to go find another parking place and by that time, there are none left. So, she's either got to park 5 miles down the road, or get out the saw and cut out a spot and that makes her tired and in need of that nap.
> 
> There!



No, no, no...the Forester (please note that I capitalized that word) doesn't always park where the fallers park....or five miles down the road either. They've been to college and they're smarter than that. Well, they're supposed to be anyway.

They usually make a point of parking in the turn around for the trucks and then glaring at people who tell them, politely, to move. Or they park on the downhill side of a cold deck that's banked above the road and slick with rain. Or they park directly behind a Cat that's being fueled.

If there's no Cat at the fuel wagon they'll park _next_ to the fuel wagon where they can completely block access. There's some minor genius in that particular maneuver...it's hard to block a fuel wagon with a pickup...but they always do a fine job of it.

They'll also park right in the middle of the road, usually at a bridge approach, while they peer over the bank to make sure those bad old loggers aren't crushing culverts or putting mud in the water. They'll sit there, probably daydreaming about retirement and the day when they don't have to put up with loggers anymore, until whatever vehicle, usually a logging truck and usually in a hurry, comes to a dirt churning, jake roaring halt six inches from their bumper. Then they'll move. Slowly, reluctantly, but they will move.

Please note that _most_ of the above applies to new Foresters. The ones who have been around a while tend not to do things like that. Well, some of them anyway.

A new Forester asked our siderod, after being run out of three or four potential parking spots, just where exactly he could park and be out of the way. The siderod suggested Cleveland.


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## Rounder (Mar 23, 2013)

Getting off topic, but Bob reminded me of an interesting new trend. The foresters now park in the middle of the road (blocking all access out, LOCK the truck, put keys in pocket, and take off to do what ever. WTF is this about? New FS policy? 

It's all fine and good untill somebody gets dinged. And the green truck is going over the bank one way or another. Just curious if this vehicle locking is actually a new policy. I was kind of beside myself when the crews mentioned this was going on.


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

Rounder said:


> Getting off topic, but Bob reminded me of an interesting new trend. The foresters now park in the middle of the road (blocking all access out, LOCK the truck, put keys in pocket, and take off to do what ever. WTF is this about? New FS policy?
> 
> It's all fine and good untill somebody gets dinged. And the green truck is going over the bank one way or another. Just curious if this vehicle locking is actually a new policy. I was kind of beside myself when the crews mentioned this was going on.



Dunno...I haven't seen that particular trick yet. Don't want to, either. I think the person with the locked pickup blocking the road and I would have to have a talk.

We always leave the keys in everything during the day. It just makes sense to do that. Nobody that I know of locks their rig. And they sure don't block a road. Nobody up there is going to steal anything.

If a pickup was parked blocking the road, locked, and one of the guys got hurt and had to go to town in a hurry...well, I'd just move that pickup by whatever means was the quickest. I'll deal with the whys and wherefores afterward.

Jeez...I get mad just thinking about that. Thanks Sam.


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## 4x4American (Mar 23, 2013)

In a little different industry but similar idea, some genius working the nightshift for the construction company parked his suv and locked it in front of the cold patch pile in the yard and went out to the jobsite in the company truck. we were getting a delivery of cold patch and needed to move it, so we hooked a chain to the tow hitch and lifted it up with a backhoe and dragged it outta the way with a handful of laborers and the bullbuck beside it push steering it. Nothing got damaged and we got the load of cold patch dumped fairly quickly.


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## slowp (Mar 23, 2013)

You need to realize that there are people that have NO idea nor do they want to know, what goes on around the evil process of logging. Foresters often work for those people. Unless the forester doesn't want to get promoted (I liked my job in the woods and a promotion would have meant office time) they must obey. I was told several times by the Fleet Manager for the Forest  that I should be locking my pickup up and taking the keys with me. I told him that was unsafe for everybody working in the area, pickups often needed to be moved, or heaven forbid, if it was the only rig unharmed that would start and was needed, I wanted the guys to be able to use it in an emergency. Then never call the fleet manager back. Or refer him to your supervisor, which in my case knew what went on in the woods. The last one anyway.

He didn't understand, but I didn't care, so I left keys inside and pickup unlocked, just in case. Now, that would be different and I'd have had to figure out a good unoffensive parking place, if I didn't have a heavy duty locked inside the locked truckbox super secure paint storage. Leaving the secret paint unlocked is a bad thing. Most foresters have the locked boxes that are locked seperately. That key went with me. 

Yup, perhaps your foresters need a nice talk with you because they have no idea, or perhaps you could make sure there is a parking spot out of the way of everything. A cheery sign made to designate it? OK, that's going too far. Just be aware that those people may come into that job brand new and have a supervisor who has never been around logging. So, it is up to you to educate them. I got a few, "Come over here and pull up a log." talks from siderods and loggers. No yelling, just politely telling me that what I was doing was not safe and how to do things better. 

Back on topic, there is a highly skilled faller who I had on several sales and I packed some stuff for him while he dumped hazard trees along a road. He was a little bit miffed because he had wanted to cut the trees as a volunteer, and was told he couldn't because he was not certified. He got paid to do it instead.
So, he started in, "Hey, tell me how to cut this tree. Afterall, you're the one who is certified." To which my reply was, "Well, I'll have to lie down on my side and look up, cuz I'm only certified as a bucker."


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> Yup, perhaps your foresters need a nice talk with you because they have no idea, or perhaps you could make sure there is a parking spot out of the way of everything. A cheery sign made to designate it? OK, that's going too far. Just be aware that those people may come into that job brand new and have a supervisor who has never been around logging. So, it is up to you to educate them. I got a few, "Come over here and pull up a log." talks from siderods and loggers. No yelling, just politely telling me that what I was doing was not safe and how to do things better.



You're right about not yelling. Yelling at people doesn't make them any smarter. Teaching them makes them smarter...but not everyone is teachable.

New people screw up, that's a given, and new Foresters aren't any different. It's a lot more productive to explain to them what they've done wrong and how to correct it than it is to yell at them, intimidate, and eventually alienate them.

But what do you do when the SA is very green, is very defensive about being green, has some personal issues having to do with being thrust into a job they're not prepared for and don't really want, and adopts an attitude of "my way or else" simply because they lack the experience to do it any other way?

Case in point...a new Forester, young, female, just transferred in from some other district, and immediately put in charge of a bug salvage sale that was a miserable money losing monster to begin with before she even got there. 
Okay, it wasn't fair to her to put her into that kind of a mess. But she showed up the first day, drove right onto an active landing, parked right in the way, got out of her pickup, and asked to see whoever was in charge. Now. Like right now. She had a copy of the THP in one hand and a clip board in the other. Her boots were new and unscuffed and she had nail polish on. That should have been a clue.

In the meantime the skid Cats were coming in with turns, the delimber deck was plugged because the shovel couldn't swing to deck his logs because the Forester's pickup was in the way, trucks were coming back and starting to bunch up because they couldn't back in because of the Forester's pickup and what had been a fairly routine non eventful day in the woods was rapidly becoming a gigantic non productive time burning, money wasting mess. I looked around and all I saw was idle machinery, wages going out and not a log moving anywhere.

I asked her politely to move her pickup off of the landing and she replied that she wouldn't be there all that long and we "could just take a break or something". That did it. I yelled...I did and I admit it. I really shouldn't have but I did. I told her that if her agency had let us build landings bigger than the average suburban back yard there might be room enough for her to park any place she pleased and not be in the way. But since we were given the minimum amount of room possible to process, deck, and load logs the space her pickup was taking was preventing us from working at all. That being the case she could either give me permission right now to increase the landing size or she could move her pickup out of the way and allow us that small space to continue our work. She got into her pickup and left.

She came back the next day, a copy of the THP in hand as usual, but she parked off the landing a ways. She had an older guy with her, a supervisor of some kind I guess. You could see him pointing at things, machinery, people, skid trails...and as he'd point and talk she'd nod her head. He was telling her a bunch of stuff that he should have told her _before_ he sent her to the woods.

She never did turn into much of a SA but we helped her when we could. She in turn did what she could for us...as long as it was spelled out in the rules or the THP. No variations allowed. We finished the sale and moved on. I heard later that she transferred again and wasn't doing SA work anymore.


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## paccity (Mar 23, 2013)

hey mr. bob. speaking of not learn able i sent you a face book vid. thought about posting it here but did not want to muddy up the place .:msp_wink:


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

paccity said:


> hey mr. bob. speaking of not learn able i sent you a face book vid. thought about posting it here but did not want to muddy up the place .:msp_wink:



I don't do Facebook anymore but I saw it in WTF. Good place for it. I liked the way he had his pants stagged off high enough to funnel chips directly into the top of his boots.

Did he use enough wedges? :msp_rolleyes:


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## slowp (Mar 23, 2013)

Hah! I could tell some stories about loggers who were new to Forest Service sales and the things done, but I won't. Everybody has to start sometime.

Like running the shovel up the creek and making a corduroy road in the creek so the shovel could run up the creek on a partial hootowl day so they could keep on logging... Nah, I won't mention things like that. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> Hah! I could tell some stories about loggers who were new to Forest Service sales and the things done, but I won't. Everybody has to start sometime.
> 
> Like running the shovel up the creek and making a corduroy road in the creek so the shovel could run up the creek on a partial hootowl day so they could keep on logging... Nah, I won't mention things like that. :hmm3grin2orange:



SSShhhhhhhh.


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## Samlock (Mar 24, 2013)

The worst kind of amateurs are the ones who don't even recognize they're being amateurs.

Plenty of them here, where logging used to be a main industry employing roughly 1/3 of the population, before the machines replaced them.

They never pay my bills. They'll be there just for the show. They can smell 2stroke smoke from 10 kilometers range.

The geezer walks in upwind, belly first, jerks up his pants and throws in his opening line: "You know, I used to do logging back in days meself..." At that point you can hear the sound of your nice day flushing down the drain.

Of course they never bother to mention that they debarked pulp sticks 50 ago and got sacked after two weeks for having two left hands.

"You got a wrong brand chainsaw, son." They have an acute radar for details. Nothing can them happy. Equipment, truck, cutting method, timber grading.... "Your hair looks like crap!" Duly noted! "Loggers don't speak like that!" Oh well, how do they speak, then?

That's just a warm up. Wait until you get the saw fired up. There's nothing like a maniac bouncing around, yelling orders, trying to attract your attention, waving hands in terror and finally, when the tree starts to go over, screaming: "STOP! STOP!" That's spirit over matter, I daresay.

Once a very keen gentleman, after jumping around me for an hour, got stung by a wasp. Right in the eyeball! The geezer's heart wasn't like it used to be anymore. For worrying, I suppose, so I had to drag him to his house and call for help. A heavy son of a gun!

Nice people, got to love them. Salt of the earth. Welcome to Karelia!


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## 2dogs (Mar 24, 2013)

paccity said:


> hey mr. bob. speaking of not learn able i sent you a face book vid. thought about posting it here but did not want to muddy up the place .:msp_wink:



"mud is good"

View tree removal - YouTube


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## slowp (Mar 24, 2013)

Mud is scary.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2013)

Don't you just hate little tree wedging


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## 056 kid (Mar 24, 2013)

Looks like the wind was in his favor too.


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## Joe46 (Mar 24, 2013)

Well that was interesting to watch:msp_rolleyes:


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## TreePointer (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, at least he took someone's advice at some point to use wedges. Apparently the most important part is that they match the color of your saw.


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## Isna (Mar 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> No, no, no...the Forester (please note that I capitalized that word) doesn't always park where the fallers park....or five miles down the road either. They've been to college and they're smarter than that. Well, they're supposed to be anyway.
> 
> They usually make a point of parking in the turn around for the trucks and then glaring at people who tell them, politely, to move. Or they park on the downhill side of a cold deck that's banked above the road and slick with rain. Or they park directly behind a Cat that's being fueled.
> 
> ...



When I was studying forestry, some students made fun of me because I was logging part time to pay for university. It helped me a lot later: when a logger would say what I was asking was impossible, I could grab his chainsaw and show him it's possible. Helped me get respect when I was 25 and managing 50 years old loggers. At least I knew the job, unlike many other foresters I was working with. I always parked my truck out of the way and never locked it.
Since I hate spending all day in an office, I chose, a few years ago to become part time team manager and part time logging teacher. Good thing is I understand both forester's concerns and logger's concerns...


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## 1270d (Mar 24, 2013)

Cute, he has capris


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## twochains (Mar 24, 2013)

Just how many wedges can you stick in a 10" tree? I think he needed at least 3 more...and then a good push. :msp_rolleyes: Wonder how many times a day he has to dump his boots?


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## northmanlogging (Mar 24, 2013)

He may be a hack but he makes me feel better about myself... I almost thought about subbing his yew tube channel just for when I'm having really bad days...


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## HuskStihl (Mar 24, 2013)

2dogs said:


> "mud is good"
> 
> View tree removal - YouTube



Just like with the "inverted/kerf/spike/tigger dutchman", you guys are criticizing without understanding the whole situation. That cylindrical structure just behind the tree happens to be a nuclear warhead tipped ICBM. In the samurai logging tradition, a logger is required to master the wedge for three years before he is ever given a saw. This particular cut is called "death by a thousand wedges," and has been executed perfectly. The face cut is made by sawing "wafer thin" sections of wood until the face appears perfect. Then a shallow, circumferential back cut is made and small wedges are pounded in until all gravity is negated and the tree can simply be pushed over. Remember that recent nuclear disaster in North Carolina? No? Because it never happened! This guy dropped the tree that missed the reactors power supply. Remember the daiishi plant disaster in Japan? The official word was a tsunami, but in actuality, Brad Snelling dropped an 8 inch maple first into his own head, then into the plants backup generator.
Laugh at this guy all you want, but thank him every day you don't see a mushroom cloud.


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## roberte (Mar 24, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Just like with the "inverted/kerf/spike/tigger dutchman", you guys are criticizing without understanding the whole situation. That cylindrical structure just behind the tree happens to be a nuclear warhead tipped ICBM. In the samurai logging tradition, a logger is required to master the wedge for three years before he is ever given a saw. This particular cut is called "death by a thousand wedges," and has been executed perfectly. The face cut is made by sawing "wafer thin" sections of wood until the face appears perfect. Then a shallow, circumferential back cut is made and small wedges are pounded in until all gravity is negated and the tree can simply be pushed over. Remember that recent nuclear disaster in North Carolina? No? Because it never happened! This guy dropped the tree that missed the reactors power supply. Remember the daiishi plant disaster in Japan? The official word was a tsunami, but in actuality, Brad Snelling dropped an 8 inch maple first into his own head, then into the plants backup generator.
> Laugh at this guy all you want, but thank him every day you don't see a mushroom cloud.



Wow, that was excellent


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## ShaneLogs (Mar 24, 2013)

1270d said:


> Cute, he has capris



Thinking the same thing! hahaha! What a hack that guy is, he use to have a account on here until he got banned.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 25, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Just like with the "inverted/kerf/spike/tigger dutchman", you guys are criticizing without understanding the whole situation. That cylindrical structure just behind the tree happens to be a nuclear warhead tipped ICBM. In the samurai logging tradition, a logger is required to master the wedge for three years before he is ever given a saw. This particular cut is called "death by a thousand wedges," and has been executed perfectly. The face cut is made by sawing "wafer thin" sections of wood until the face appears perfect. Then a shallow, circumferential back cut is made and small wedges are pounded in until all gravity is negated and the tree can simply be pushed over. Remember that recent nuclear disaster in North Carolina? No? Because it never happened! This guy dropped the tree that missed the reactors power supply. Remember the daiishi plant disaster in Japan? The official word was a tsunami, but in actuality, Brad Snelling dropped an 8 inch maple first into his own head, then into the plants backup generator.
> Laugh at this guy all you want, but thank him every day you don't see a mushroom cloud.



Can I call you next time I want to stay home from work? My excuses are never this good...


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## ropensaddle (Mar 25, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> Can I call you next time I want to stay home from work? My excuses are never this good...



Just call in with very scratchy voice and say I have liarengitus always got me though deer season !


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## TreePointer (Mar 25, 2013)

Was anyone else waiting for a sloping backcut?


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## Samlock (Mar 25, 2013)

Come on, don't be too hard on Scotty. He had a good chain this time. That's definitely progress. And he didn't do creepy squeaks.

Otherwise.... Well, he seems to be happy with his own performance. Happy is good, right?


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## TreePointer (Mar 25, 2013)

You have a point. Bubba is always happiest with during his "hold muh beer" activities.


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## OlympicYJ (Mar 25, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You're right about not yelling. Yelling at people doesn't make them any smarter. Teaching them makes them smarter...but not everyone is teachable.
> 
> New people screw up, that's a given, and new Foresters aren't any different. It's a lot more productive to explain to them what they've done wrong and how to correct it than it is to yell at them, intimidate, and eventually alienate them.
> 
> ...



I hear ya Bob. Hey sometimes even the good Foresters make mistakes occasionally; still waiting on my parking screw up, but I'll own up to it when it happens. I have to say the folks that park in spots they obviously shouldn't like your Forest Service gal are completely lacking of all sense. They think that degree makes them qualified and they know all. Sadly this is not true. You get the degree to get the job then you learn how to do it properly, at least that's how it's supposed to work. Preferably as an intern, so when you are full time you don't look like an a$$ hat on the landing. They never should have given her keys to the truck until her supervisor had taken her out for quite some time like he did the next day. 

Don't feel bad about what you did. Anyone that stupid deserved an earful. I've always been conscience of where to park and as a young guy I can't go out acting like I know it all because I DON'T, I approach the job in a very humble manner but at the same time will not allow myself to be run roughshod over either, unless it's deserved. I figure I can learn tons from the loggers to help me do my job which is to ultimately help them do theirs.

It's people like this that really peeve me off. They lack common sense and use their degree as proof of their ignorance. Get your truck pulled off the road in a spot that doesn't hinder the equipment or the trucks. I hate overt stupidity of any sort but especially this; this stereotype is duly founded no matter how I wish it weren't so.

Sadly I feel it's a lack of common sense. Experience from screw ups helps but really if they had the smarts in the first place it would not be an issue. Maybe I got the experience from working with my dad on the farm. He demanded correctness in all situations. Being his son I was held to a higher standard than mechanics that worked under him before he left the trade. Granted this helped but I also think I possessed some common sense at the same time and feel it has served me well throughout my few years on this old earth. 

Sorry for the rant... pet peeve of mine.

Wes


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## Samlock (Mar 25, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> You have a point. Bubba is always happiest with during his "hold muh beer" activities.



It must have something to do with that famous Hick's boson the scientists discovered this year.


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## Gologit (Mar 25, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> They never should have given her keys to the truck until her supervisor had taken her out for quite some time like he did the next day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly. She was set up to fail, maybe not intentionally but it was just about guaranteed. Sending her out alone was a disservice to her and to the agency she works for. It made for an adversarial relationship right off the bat and that never does anyone any good. Just a bad deal all the way around. 

Slowp said it right about the lack of knowledgeable supervision. A lot of the experienced timber people are gone from the agencies, retired or doing something else to hang in 'til retirement. You can't take a green kid, give them a pickup, a copy of the THP, and directions to where the loggers are working, send them out alone, and expect anything much more than that they make it back to the office by quitting time.

A lot of the new government people I see in the woods are very bright, have a tremendous amount of technical knowledge, and they really want to do a good job. I hope that they're given the chance to learn.


----------



## Gologit (Mar 25, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> Was anyone else waiting for a sloping backcut?



No...but I was surprised he didn't use it.

I was counting wedges, though. I'm surprised there was room for the saw when he was backing up that piece of shrubbery.

I don't think I've ever seen anybody beat on wedges that hard and for that long on a piece of wood not much bigger than a Christmas tree. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## scubadiver721 (Mar 25, 2013)

templar said:


> Guess this might be a bit controversial but.........WHY do some pure amateurs think they know best a know how to fall trees ???? omg I got one today that asked my if I could fall half a dozen pines in his garden.......I said sure no worries I be right over.
> 
> 
> Well I got there and he greeted me first with oh they're easy and they'll all go the same way.....I said nothing as being me I kinda like to decide for myself (call me anything but if I'm doing the cutting then I like to judge where they go). So we walked down his garden and first thing was they weren't pine they were fir (no biggy lol but he was not pleased when I told him that) and then I said you been at them? he replied yep I read up and brushed them out ready for you.......Now that may sound cool ...............but wait for it lol........he'd been up a ladder and had taken of branches up to 16 feet all of one side lol (he'd kinda sorta weighted them the wrong way baring in mind (a) he wanted then to go against the weight and (b) the way he weighted then was towards his house which is 25 feet away......(c) two were dead (d) one was right on the side of a creek with a 12 foot drop and was already leaning into the creek.
> ...



Some people think they know it all and they have'nt got a clue! If they know so much about tree felling then why did they call you in the first place? The situation of a customer telling you how to do your job is not how things are supposed to be. You did the right thing by walking away.


----------



## madhatte (Mar 25, 2013)

slowp said:


> Unless the forester doesn't want to get promoted (I liked my job in the woods and a promotion would have meant office time)



I know that worry all too well.



Gologit said:


> I hope that they're given the chance to learn.



In THIS economy?


----------



## OlympicYJ (Mar 25, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Exactly. She was set up to fail, maybe not intentionally but it was just about guaranteed. Sending her out alone was a disservice to her and to the agency she works for. It made for an adversarial relationship right off the bat and that never does anyone any good. Just a bad deal all the way around.
> 
> Slowp said it right about the lack of knowledgeable supervision. A lot of the experienced timber people are gone from the agencies, retired or doing something else to hang in 'til retirement. You can't take a green kid, give them a pickup, a copy of the THP, and directions to where the loggers are working, send them out alone, and expect anything much more than that they make it back to the office by quitting time.
> 
> A lot of the new government people I see in the woods are very bright, have a tremendous amount of technical knowledge, and they really want to do a good job. I hope that they're given the chance to learn.



Yupp I agree, but I still maintain something as simple as parking shouldn't require holding their hand. 

Wes

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 25, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Exactly. She was set up to fail, maybe not intentionally but it was just about guaranteed. Sending her out alone was a disservice to her and to the agency she works for. It made for an adversarial relationship right off the bat and that never does anyone any good. Just a bad deal all the way around.
> 
> Slowp said it right about the lack of knowledgeable supervision. A lot of the experienced timber people are gone from the agencies, retired or doing something else to hang in 'til retirement. You can't take a green kid, give them a pickup, a copy of the THP, and directions to where the loggers are working, send them out alone, and expect anything much more than that they make it back to the office by quitting time.
> 
> A lot of the new government people I see in the woods are very bright, have a tremendous amount of technical knowledge, and they really want to do a good job. I hope that they're given the chance to learn.



There seems to be a lack of mentoring these days in every industry. Smart phones, the internet, social networking- the very things that allow for better communication are keeping people distracted from the simple and basic things in life. One logger I used to work for hired a couple of younger guys to fall timber for him. They were logging some pretty small wood and he basically threw these guys out there with very little training. Both ended up getting hurt within the first 30 days with one having a broken leg. Neither stuck with it.


----------



## slowp (Mar 25, 2013)

And some loggers moved here from the flat lands bought a timber sale and a yarder, and started asking me how to rig up the yarder....

I recommended a local guy and ran away...
They survived and got pretty good. They would forget to set the brake? on the line sometimes and it would spool out and get into a tangled mess.


----------



## Gologit (Mar 25, 2013)

madhatte said:


> In THIS economy?



Yup, in THIS economy. Getting a little done is better than accomplishing nothing at all.

I know, easy for _me_ to say. :msp_biggrin: But I see it all around, both private and public sectors. They want, insist actually, that we do more with less. I don't see that changing until we reach the point of total stagnation and _nothing_ gets done. Maybe when things will change a little there might be some improvement but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

It's frustrating when you can't throw enough people and machinery at a job to do it efficiently but my definition of efficient and the bean counter's definition are two totally different things. 'Twas ever thus.


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## roberte (Mar 25, 2013)

Knowledgeable supervision and lack of mentoring is cartainly an issue, in just about all trades. I know I thought I was cool when I was 25 and made boss for the first time. What a PITA. It took a while but I had to realize I had to have a better view than 4 feet away and its wasnt what I could do but the crews capabilities or outside agencies and its requirements and thats only one avenue. Anyway, having lived a little, I feel I owe it the trade to try and train my subordinates as time allows. As I look back there was superiors both good and bad that made an impression. As i take myself seriously, I am trying to be one of the good guys and if I pass it on maybe in 20 years they will pass it on.
Having a degree doesnt mean knowing everything. It could mean someone is trainable.
Cakes bake at 350


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## ropensaddle (Mar 25, 2013)

roberte said:


> Knowledgeable supervision and lack of mentoring is cartainly an issue, in just about all trades. I know I thought I was cool when I was 25 and made boss for the first time. What a PITA. It took a while but I had to realize I had to have a better view than 4 feet away and its wasnt what I could do but the crews capabilities or outside agencies and its requirements and thats only one avenue. Anyway, having lived a little, I feel I owe it the trade to try and train my subordinates as time allows. As I look back there was superiors both good and bad that made an impression. As i take myself seriously, I am trying to be one of the good guys and if I pass it on maybe in 20 years they will pass it on.
> Having a degree doesnt mean knowing everything. It could mean someone is trainable.
> Cakes bake at 350



It also can mean the opposite book learning and common sense are very separate entities!


----------



## madhatte (Mar 25, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Getting a little done is better than accomplishing nothing at all.



A solid point, and one I need reminded of far more often than I would like.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 25, 2013)

I've been a lead/supervisor at nearly every job I've ever had... In the last 20 years I can count on one hand the kids younger then me that have figured it out and turned out to be pretty good machinists...

More often then not... they quit, or get fired

The really fun stuff is when my 20 year old butt is put in charge of a guy whose 46 and just out of college... he made it 6 weeks.

As for logging... I get lots of people that really want to help really really bad. So they come out can't figure out the chokers, can't or won't run the gyppo yarder (it is pretty scary...:smile2 can't keep a saw out of the dirt... So I end up doing it all myself anyway... most times they never get the chance to fall any trees, if they can't buck or limb I'll be damned if I'm letting em dump one while I'm in the same county...


In other words I'm more then a little concerned for my generation and anyone younger than us...


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## rmount (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm an amateur, I did call in our local pro once for 2 big pine that were too close to the house for me to comfortably tackle. But the only input I offered was to ask if they would like a cold Coke or a cold beer when they were done (I knew I was last job of the day), and would he prefer to be paid in $20s or $50s. We got on fine.

As for Mr. Wedgie in the video with his Christmas tree, well, I just hope he doesn't heat with firewood - be a long time putting up a cord at that rate


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## HuskStihl (Mar 27, 2013)

What I really hate is when I'm on a job and some jerky amateur homeowner won't leave me or my crew alone. Wants to show us his "pro saw," wants to know if our saws are ported and muffler modded, uses falling technique names he clearly doesn't really understand and obviously just heard about on the Internet, wants to know if I personally know Bob or Philbert, and if so can he get an autograph.......
Whoa, I need to stay off the logging form! For a moment there I actually thought I was a pro-faller and forgot I'm a minivan driving, know-nothing 'ologist! I apologize in advance to any AS members I may hire to cut down big, scary trees, then pester with questions, and the revving power of my "pro saw!" 
I think I'll go make a video of me revving my saw and head back to the chainsaw forum:msp_biggrin:


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## Isna (Mar 27, 2013)

Had so many of those customers trying to tell me how to do my job. I usually stay calm and shut my ears. I did get angry a few times. Worse ones are those who keep putting themselves in danger. Some want to watch and give you lessons, others just think they can help. In both cases, seems all they want is to have a tree fall on on them. I often have to kick them out of the way: "you have no helmet and therefore have no right to be here..." If you really want to help, get out of the way and make us some coffee...


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## mitch95100 (Mar 27, 2013)

Imho- People want to think they know everything becouse they want to be accepted by everyone. Everyone wants to be thought highly of and liked right?
So the easiest option is to try and prove them selves in a field that the person their tryin to impress knows alot about and has expirence doing. That way it makes them think that their "one of them" type thing and their at their level. This has nothing to do with "I dont give a #### what people think" type thing but rather "i just want to be cool with these guys"
And 9/10 of the time it ends up making them look like a dumbass.

Sent from me to you using my fingers


----------



## Isna (Mar 27, 2013)

templar said:


> I would agree with what you basically say ......however what should be borne in mind is falling trees is dangerous and it all well and good trying to be one of the guys (most fallers I know tend to be very sociable etc but not when they cutting or sizing up) but better to be quiet and wat til job done then be friends than try to be one of the guys and make friends across a hospital ward or worse at a funeral (I know that seems excessive but it can happen very easily)



We do get customers who wait until we're finished and then pay us a drink to talk. Met some really cool people that way. Some amateurs want to learn more and have an interesting point of view. I sometimes got home late just because I stayed to talk with really interesting customers. But, that was once the job was done.


----------



## mitch95100 (Mar 27, 2013)

templar said:


> I would agree with what you basically say ......however what should be borne in mind is falling trees is dangerous and it all well and good trying to be one of the guys (most fallers I know tend to be very sociable etc but not when they cutting or sizing up) but better to be quiet and wat til job done then be friends than try to be one of the guys and make friends across a hospital ward or worse at a funeral (I know that seems excessive but it can happen very easily)



I totally agree with you! Its rated one of the most dangerous professions one could have. And i wasnt nesicarily ignoring that fact but generalizing why people do that. But also keep in mind when they wander out and strike up a conversation they arent thinking about how dangerous it is.

Sent from me to you using my fingers


----------



## roberte (Mar 27, 2013)

templar said:


> I agree 100% I didn't mean everyone does it maliciously. After you've had the hundredth person wander out it tends to make me grumpy lol (ok grumpier than normal lol) I guess I'm just getting old lol I should be more tolerant.



its better to have a little salt & pepper & honey in your back pocket rather than vinegar. 
At least if the bs is coming it may go down easier


----------



## roberte (Mar 27, 2013)

templar said:


> agreed........I am getting more chilled out.........maybe in another 20yrs I'll be cool lol



everytime im cool i reach for a sweatshirt


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## mitch95100 (Mar 27, 2013)

templar said:


> I agree 100% I didn't mean everyone does it maliciously. After you've had the hundredth person wander out it tends to make me grumpy lol (ok grumpier than normal lol) I guess I'm just getting old lol I should be more tolerant.



Haha my tolerence gets short also in those situations.
Good discussion it nice when it dosent have to turn into a brawl!


Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## mitch95100 (Mar 27, 2013)

templar said:


> ok ok then I'll reach for a sweatshirt and then I'll be warm and cool:msp_biggrin:



You going hot and cold on us now bud, better settle for lukewarm lol

Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## slowp (Apr 9, 2013)

I wonder if this was somebody trying to "give advice."


Article in _Lewis County Sirens._

_A 44-year-old Onalaska-area man was airlifted to a Vancouver hospital after he was struck in the back of the head by a falling tree on his property this morning.

For an unknown reason, he had run in front of an evergreen tree being dropped by a local logging outfit, according to Lewis County Fire District 1 Chief Mark Conner.

Firefighters called about 9:35 a.m. to Allen Road, off Middle Fork Road, found the victim unconscious but still breathing, Conner said.

The fire chief described the tree as about eight inches in diameter.

“It looked like he was hit and thrown clear,” he said.

The tree faller attempted to swing the tree away from the man, but unfortunately it had already begun to drop, Conner said.

The man was flown from a private airstrip off Forest-Napavine Road to Southwest Washington Medical Center, according to Conner.

Tags: By Sharyn L. Decker, news reporter_


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## Joe46 (Apr 9, 2013)

slowp said:


> I wonder if this was somebody trying to "give advice."
> 
> 
> Article in _Lewis County Sirens._
> ...


Hope he makes it. Some lessons are a whole lot more painful than others.


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## RandyMac (Apr 9, 2013)

the ghost of David Chain pushed him.


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## tbow388 (Apr 9, 2013)

*My Amateur self*

Heck I would have helped you out and notched them also!!! In the wrong direction.:jester:


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## 1270d (Apr 9, 2013)

Ammons strikes again?


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## echoshawn (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> OMG I gonna do something nasty to our young ones BF he just dropped a tree thru my father in laws shed grrrrrrrrrrr:angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2: He better think himself lucky I'm 3500 miles away or I'd be setting him on fire ......after parts of him were removed
> 
> 
> I told him to leave that tree be it wasn't going anywhere but he thought he'd impress our daughter (do bear in mind he a musician)



A guy doing something stupid to impress a girl? Never happens...


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## ropensaddle (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> Well think our daughter upset as I told her very bluntly that HE is off the wedding invitation list lol



Hmmm so like maybe he will write a song make top 20 over this


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> OMG I gonna do something nasty to our young ones BF he just dropped a tree thru my father in laws shed grrrrrrrrrrr:angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2: He better think himself lucky I'm 3500 miles away or I'd be setting him on fire ......after parts of him were removed
> 
> 
> I told him to leave that tree be it wasn't going anywhere but he thought he'd impress our daughter (do bear in mind he a musician)



I think i missed something in this thread????


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

A rank amateur?


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## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> lol nope the daughters BF is an amateur lol





jrcat said:


> A rank amateur?



O ok.
a very rank amateur. I have one of those situations too. he best not be messing around with my saws


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

My one concrete rule....NO one runs my stuff but me not my truck dozer or saws. And if anyone uses my tools they better be clean when they go back to the box, otherwise that nasty gob of grease I just laid my hand on... goes on the offenders seat.


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## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

Everybody starts out even, not everybody has what it takes. Books and vids can only get you so far, there is a lack of one on one, experience oriented instruction.


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I have a hard time teaching I feel I dont have enough knowledge to teach. I also find that teaching my own kids to be very challenging


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## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Everybody starts out even, not everybody has what it takes. Books and vids can only get you so far, there is a lack of one on one, experience oriented instruction.



I tend too agree, but have you talked to an 18 year old lately


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I tried to teach a green log truck driver to tell the difference between soft and hard maple and between ash and bass wood... I gave up.


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> then do what I told my daughter...........That the BF is off the wedding guest list lol it may take a minute to sink in lol



Thats rough lol


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

roberte said:


> I tend too agree, but have you talked to an 18 year old lately



Yes, it was disappointing. There are quite a few good ones out there.


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> then do what I told my daughter...........That the BF is off the wedding guest list lol it may take a minute to sink in lol



i told the bf what i was told by my dad
use your head for something more than a hat rack.
and for the new generation pull up your pants, jhc


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I was told to think with the right head


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I tried to teach a green log truck driver to tell the difference between soft and hard maple and between ash and bass wood... I gave up.



well you might have to teach with a 2 x 4


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm only 34 and one of my best friends is only 20 he knows more about cutting and skidding than I do. I look to him often for advice.. the advice the local veterans wont give.


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> That is so true .......I bet you had to follow a faller for a while watching and learning as I did .....I still would too given the chance to learn things I haven't encountered before.
> 
> 
> I think it a sign of the times there to many in a rush and cause things are economically tight carrying apprentices is a burden most can't carry



but if you get an appretice worth it, i do feel you/we/i owe it to the trade to pass it on


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> there are a few good ones but few and far between........The first prob I have is understanding them lol all the lang they use goes whoosh right over my head lol



well the first thing with the language barrier is 
1. ####
2. yes sir
3. no sir


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

With words like nutter...bloke.....bloody hell and meat pie.... most ofthe lang from over the pond goes over my head lol


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> Some are naturals and maybe he been at it since he was knee high



I think he was birthed on a 240 timberjack with detroit power:msp_mellow:


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

but what about the meat pies?


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> but what about the meat pies?



here comes the cliff


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

Aye kick the wee lamb in the arse ......


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I was able to teach the green log truckie the diff between logs and pole wood......that took some time.. I had just got him to lay out logs and to just stack pole wood instead of stack everything. Then we got laid off


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> Aye they made of .............Meat lol



I have no clue...... I was wondering that myself I was hoping you could shed some light on this horrific mystery that is meat pies lol


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> Welsh like sheep.......we prefer Haggis lol



isnt that like sheep or cow guts ...stuffed with er uh ....stuff?


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

this conversation has strayed into areas unknown lol. amateurs.......sheesh


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> nope it a very rare little creature with one leg shorter than the other to allow it to run round hills



Just when I was trying to steer back on topic..... you have to throw that in there about rare little things that run in circles on hill sides


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I bet that randymac wants to set us all on fire


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Just when I was trying to steer back on topic..... you have to throw that in there about rare little things that run in circles on hill sides



that creature is an amateur logger, with one leg shorter than the other, nicknamed stumppy


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I bet that randymac wants to set us all on fire



i know donald sutherland does


----------



## rmount (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> Welsh like sheep.......we prefer Haggis lol



If the single malt to haggis ratio is high enough it's not bad stuff :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

rmount said:


> If the single malt to haggis ratio is high enough it's not bad stuff :hmm3grin2orange:



I think I'm going to go chuck now


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

roberte said:


> that creature is an amateur logger, with one leg shorter than the other, nicknamed stumppy



was he set on fire?


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> was he set on fire?



no but he was in john wayne (modern reference) movies


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

Some one should start an off topic thread for just such occasions as this, so as not to overload good conversations with spam lol


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Some one should start an off topic thread for just such occasions as this, so as not to overload good conversations with spam lol



put your spam in the haggis and the scotch, gag


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> lol.......nothing goes in uisge beatha (water of life......whiskey) that sacrilege :msp_tongue:



scotch is one of those drinks with no middle ground, you like it or you dont, worst hangover ever, ok top 3


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

You kids pipe down or I'm gonna start slappin' heads.

I had the great honor of working with old guys and yes, I did do an apprenticeship of sorts. I was a second sawyer to a master Faller, I followed him around, hauled his gear and did a load of grunt work, what I gained was priceless.


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> You kids pipe down or I'm gonna start slappin' heads.
> 
> I had the great honor of working with old guys and yes, I did do an apprenticeship of sorts. I was a second sawyer to a master Faller, I followed him around, hauled his gear and did a load of grunt work, what I gained was priceless.



and if you asked i would pack your saw


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I wish I could have gotten that type of experience. I was however always following my father around in the woods as a kid. Whenever I ad the chance I was in the woods as a kid. I watched my father cut and skid and learned how to revere and respect the woods as a living breathing thing. But also on how to make a living from it without destroying for future generations. I also got smacked around alot to. The what the heck are you doing stay out of the dang way smacks and the shut up and listen smacks. I learned a lot but still have a lot to learn.


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

roberte said:


> and if you asked i would pack your saw



You are just saying that so you dont end up on fire


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

Never got smacked, had rocks thrown at me.


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> You are just saying that so you dont end up on fire



no i dont think so


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

You knotbumpers better find something useful to do.


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Never got smacked, had rocks thrown at me.



or go find that yellow jacket nest for me.
old timer used to whistle at me with the saw throttle


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> You knotbumpers better find something useful to do.



pack those matches for you....


----------



## twochains (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> You knotbumpers better find something useful to do.



pmsl :msp_w00t:


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

twochains said:


> pmsl :msp_w00t:



you get to go back to the rigging


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> you get to go back to the rigging



twochains, I think you just got torched


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

roberte said:


> twochains, I think you just got torched



You too, grab gloves and get down the hill.


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> You too, grab gloves and get down the hill.



yes sir.
you need any wedges before i go


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> bet I'm next lol



You girls come back when you can do this.


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

did I mention that I also learned sarcasim at a very young age and that I've watched every episode of house at least 3 times , and yes I would pack the saw too.


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> You girls come back when you can do this.



Is that you?


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

you are bound and determined to get torched arent ya templar lol


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> That's Patrick Swayze in that film Dirty something lol .......I'll work on it lol



been there, but in plumas county


----------



## roberte (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> you are bound and determined to get torched arent ya templar lol



i think someone should call a burn center, 2nd and 3rd degree


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

Never give up on your dreams, don't step on your wank and this could be you.






never mind, we already cut them all.


----------



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I'll just go set myself on fire..... or maybe I'll just go do some smokey burnouts....


----------



## twochains (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


>



That's nothing but "bad ass"!!!!


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

twochains said:


> That's nothing but "bad ass"!!!!



That, is what it takes.


----------



## twochains (Apr 10, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> That, is what it takes.



I would leave 2moro if I thought I could actually get a fair shot


----------



## Byrdmando (Apr 10, 2013)

Rounder said:


> In general, the most arrogant/cocky/over-confident fallers I've encountered are the ones that tear up their saws/bars and make big messes. The best fallers I've worked with have all been easy going guys who didn't talk themselves up, ever. Seems like a pattern that doesn't break.



In my experience, this is how it is in every industry. Not strictly confined to tree work.


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## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

templar said:


> and there in lies the problem we don't get to learn to do that and in all seriousness that is something I will always regret



I almost missed it.


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I wished I could have seen the american chestnut trees. The red woods of the east they called them. A blight got most of them back in the early 1900's . there is still a few around but they dont survive very long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_chestnut


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## twochains (Apr 10, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I wished I could have seen the american chestnut trees. The red woods of the east they called them. A blight got most of them back in the early 1900's . there is still a few around but they dont survive very long.
> 
> American chestnut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I have a bunch of furniture made out of wormy chestnut! Seriously...I do! I have had this set since I was a little kid and have never seen any other furniture made from it. I've got a huge desk made of it...takes several people to move it.


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## 056 kid (Apr 10, 2013)

twochains said:


> I have a bunch of furniture made out of wormy chestnut! Seriously...I do! I have had this set since I was a little kid and have never seen any other furniture made from it. I've got a huge desk made of it...takes several people to move it.



Better hold on to that. A weathered down buck skin is all a guy will see as far as chestnut goes.. one of our tracts has oodles of BIG ASS chestnut stumps. Talkin 8 10 feet deals. Some are bigger...


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## twochains (Apr 10, 2013)

056 kid said:


> Better hold on to that. A weathered down buck skin is all a guy will see as far as chestnut goes.. one of our tracts has oodles of BIG ASS chestnut stumps. Talkin 8 10 feet deals. Some are bigger...



You two are the only ones I have heard even speak of chestnut. Yes, they must have been big! Oh...I'm not getting rid of it ever. I would say that I have probably a large collection...hey, are some pics worth showing?


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

no pics Some people look at me sideways when I say that the chestnuts were HUGE. Eh oh well.


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## scottmphoto (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't know... I'm an amateur. I've only been running a chainsaw for 35 years. I KNOW that I don't know everything. Hmmm... maybe I'm different.


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## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2013)

If you haven't felled and bucked yourself in 35 years, you must have the hang of it.


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