# Lifeline Rope and Prussik Material



## AviD (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey guys, wanted your professional opinions on what you'd recommend for using as a lifeline for a hunting application (climbing to a treestand).

There are a few commercial solutions, but they don't list their specs, and I'd prefer to verify with the professionals on here, as well as save some money and make my own.

I was thinking along the lines of 1/2" static kermantle rope with 1/4" nylon prussik.

It would be tied off above the stand location and at the base of the tree, and as I climb, I would slide the prussik up the rope.

You can view a commercial example at: http://www.huntersafetysystem.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=9

And click the Watch Video link to see it used.

If anyone can provide some guidance on rope/prussik sizing and material, as well as specific brand names, I'd really appreciate it!


As an additional FYI, I'm 6'1" and about 210lbs. But I need a solution for a buddy too who is 6'8" and around 280-300.


Thanks all!


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## B-Edwards (Sep 9, 2008)

That might be ok for going up, how you gona get down?


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## AviD (Sep 9, 2008)

B-Edwards said:


> That might be ok for going up, how you gona get down?



Same way I went up...as I climb down, I slide the prussik down the rope. It will be tied off on the top (above the portable treestand platform) and below at the base of the tree.

It will remain there for the season (several months).


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## B-Edwards (Sep 9, 2008)

I didn't mean to sound like a jerk. I am trying to remember how i was taught to use a prussik. I have climbed trees for so long that I know how I would do it but telling someone is different. Sounds like you know what you are doing. I think my thinking was using the prussik on a ascent on 2 ropes together. It can be dangerous trying to desend that way.


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## AviD (Sep 9, 2008)

I didn't think you sounded like a jerk 
I appreciate the questions/help!

The prussik will slide up or down and cinch when a downward load is applied. I don't believe whether you are going up or down matters...gravity will only pull you one way (down) and the prussik will grab when that downward pressure is applied.


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## AviD (Sep 9, 2008)

This is what I'm currently looking at:


UH-PMRP011: PMI, Kermantle Classic Professional Static Rope (NFPA), 12.5mm (1/2 in)
EZ-Bend
Camo
http://www.urbanhart.com/shopsite/rescuerope_12.5mm.html#1858
200ft @ $1.10/ft = $220


UH-STCD001: Sterling Prusik Accessory Cord 6mm Nylon Rope
Camo
http://www.urbanhart.com/shopsite/accessorycord_6mm.html#1062
3m @ $1.17/m = $3.51


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## TreeBot (Sep 9, 2008)

The cheapst route might be the basic tree guy way. You can get arborplex for around $75 for 120', which would allow you to get close to 60' using doubled rope (drt).

That is all you need for the simplest method. Rope goes over tree crotch, back down to you, and gets tied to your harness with a bowline or fisherman's (or preferably to a locking biner if you have one, but it is optional. Use a stop knot if you do this), leaving about 3' extra tail. Tail gets tied to rope leading up into tree using a friction hitch like tautline or blake's, and figure-8 get's tied in the end of the tail as a stop knot.

If you add a split tail you don't have to untie to go around branches.

Add a small pulley between harness and rope below friction hitch and you can advance with one hand. 

You can descend slowly with this setup but you can not truly repel without risking melting your rope. You can use a basic descender like a figure-8 under the friction hitch to descend quickly, the friction hitch gets loosened up and acts as backup.

Friction savers through or instead of the tree crotch will protect the bark, protect the rope, and make the whole operation smoother. These can be pulleys and straps or steel rings on webbing that get attached to the tree and the rope goes trough. Or it can just be a leather cover for the rope that slips over the crotch.

Of course there all kinds of more advanced techniques and gadgets but all you really need is a decent rope and a saddle to keep you from falling out of the tree.


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 9, 2008)

AviD, you won't be able to descend on the system you're describing, at least effectively. Your prussic will not slide downward very easily at all while your weight is on it. 

The system TreeBot described for you will be your easiest, safest system. I'll be using tree gear to climb to and as a saftey while in my stand. I'm planning on using a 50' hank of Lava rope, with a fixed tail and triple locking beaner for the attachment. I'm looking now for a light saddle to carry in my hunting pack, but I'm still undecided. There is not much need for a split tail in this situation, just creates extra gear since your stand will already be in place, and if you do things right, you'll already have your tie in point isolated, so no need for redirects around branches or crotches. 

Ideally I'd like a front waist attachment point on the saddle for climbing, and a between the shoulders attachment point for a saftey while hunting. Staying attached at the front waist position while hunting would be a big pain, and a potential danger in case of a fall. 

One really nice thing about using this tree climbing gear for hunting is that nobody will ever be able to sit in your stand, or steal your screw in steps or climbing sticks. I'm planning on leaving a long loop of cord over my tie in point, then when i get there, just run the rope up, tie in, and climb. 

Good luck, be safe, and welcome to the site.


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## Ghillie (Sep 9, 2008)

ddhlakebound said:


> AviD, you won't be able to descend on the system you're describing, at least effectively. Your prussic will not slide downward very easily at all while your weight is on it.
> 
> The system TreeBot described for you will be your easiest, safest system. I'll be using tree gear to climb to and as a saftey while in my stand. I'm planning on using a 50' hank of Lava rope, with a fixed tail and triple locking beaner for the attachment. I'm looking now for a light saddle to carry in my hunting pack, but I'm still undecided. There is not much need for a split tail in this situation, just creates extra gear since your stand will already be in place, and if you do things right, you'll already have your tie in point isolated, so no need for redirects around branches or crotches.
> 
> ...



:agree2: 

Arborist rope would be a better choice no matter whether you are using a ladder stand or climb the rope. Arborist rope is usually made of better material for UV resistance than the nylon 6.6 (if my memory holds true) of the PMI ez-bend. And by the way, I have 200' of Ez-bend and the name is not accurate. The only thing stiffer that I have used is three-strand tree master. 

If you go with the prussik setup, 6mm will be awfully grabby on that line. I would recommend 8mm, but try them both to see what works. 

AND, make sure you are buying life safety rated cord.... The link you put up for the 6mm said it was accesory cord. The only accesory cord I have ever seen wasn't rated for "life-safety".

Hope that helps.

DDH.....Check his join date again...LOL


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## AviD (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm not an arborist, I only come here to ask professionals (you guys) when I have questions related to climbing trees and safety...hence my join date and number of posts. You guys do it daily, I only climb seasonally and not the same way you guys do.


DDH, good info, thank you.

I too have thought about the method you've described (it's been recommended to me before when I've had other questions regarding climbing) but my lack of climbing experience has deterred me from venturing upon that route. So I've stuck with what's worked for me (steps and sticks) and I'm comfortable with them.

How do you plan on climbing and descending? You using ascenders and descenders?

Also a consideration...what if someone cuts your temp line and takes it? I guess no different than someone stealing your steps/sticks...either way you're done for the hunt I guess.

As far as gear selection:
- What brand rope would you recommend? What is Lava rope and why are you going with 50'? Hunt pretty high? What diameter are you using?

- What brand would you recommend for the prussik? I was told half the diameter of your main rope is a good rule of thumb...hence the 6mm to 12.5mm. Bottom line, I need it to slide fairly easily but also be sure to grab if I were to fall.

- Whichever saddle you eventually use, please let me know...I'd be interested in upgrading my gear. I use an SOP harness right now and feel it will probably prevent a fall and save my life (per TMA) but there are better professional options out there that aren't a ton more expensive.


The only issue I see with a waist attachment is if it's direct with no play...you won't have much "slideability" room due to tension. As you mentioned, climbing down would create pressure and make it difficult. The harnesses that are made for hunting have a natural 2-3' strap on the upper back that can be used to slide that distance each time. So the goal was to keep it somewhat slack to allow for sliding it up or down.

I also hook to the back when on stand, keeps the strap and biner behind me and out of the way.


Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it. If you have any other thoughts, please let me know. Good luck to you this season!


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## Ghillie (Sep 9, 2008)

AviD said:


> I'm not an arborist, I only come here to ask professionals (you guys) when I have questions related to climbing trees and safety...hence my join date and number of posts. You guys do it daily, I only climb seasonally and not the same way you guys do.
> 
> 
> DDH, good info, thank you.
> ...



I left the climbing harness suggestion for reference, but I like the dorsal attachment better I think. Out of the way. And if you can do both..comfortably, you got it whipped.


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 9, 2008)

Ghillie said:


> :agree2:
> 
> Arborist rope would be a better choice no matter whether you are using a ladder stand or climb the rope. Arborist rope is usually made of better material for UV resistance than the nylon 6.6 (if my memory holds true) of the PMI ez-bend. And by the way, I have 200' of Ez-bend and the name is not accurate. The only thing stiffer that I have used is three-strand tree master.
> 
> ...



LOL....ok, my welcome is a few years late......



AviD said:


> How do you plan on climbing and descending? You using ascenders and descenders?



Mostly using the hip thrust method, unless the tree is just branchy enough to climb and tend slack on the lifeline. Hip thrusting is a workout, but for short climbs it's not bad once you learn the technique. I'll just descend on the blakes hitch, it slides easily, and won't build too much heat as long as you descend slowly. No ascenders or descenders needed, just the saddle, rope, and friction hitch. 


AviD said:


> Also a consideration...what if someone cuts your temp line and takes it? I guess no different than someone stealing your steps/sticks...either way you're done for the hunt I guess.



Yeah, that's a possiblilty. You can either carry a light, short throwball setup as a backup, or just toss your rope over the lowest branch, climb up and move your rope up from there. (need second tie in to be safe that way)

Throwballing before dawn would be an excersise in futility, so tossing your rope over the lowest limb would be the easier option if your pull loop were taken. 


AviD said:


> What brand rope would you recommend? What is Lava rope and why are you going with 50'? Hunt pretty high? What diameter are you using?



Most any arborist rope would work fine, Lava is just what my short rope currently is, and I like it quite a bit. It's made my New England Ropes, and it's 11.5 mil. With a 50' rope, with a fixed tail 3' long you'd have 47' of working rope, which would let you descend from a 23' tie in point. I don't usually hunt above that, so 50' is enough to do the job, without carrying more than I need. 



AviD said:


> What brand would you recommend for the prussik? I was told half the diameter of your main rope is a good rule of thumb...hence the 6mm to 12.5mm. Bottom line, I need it to slide fairly easily but also be sure to grab if I were to fall.


 
With a fixed tail on the rope, you won't need a prussic loop or split tail, and the friction hitch is tied back onto itself. I prefer a Blakes hitch with a fixed tail. 

Good luck to you too, and you Ghillie. Bow season starts here monday....man...I'm not ready.


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## Ghillie (Sep 9, 2008)

ddhlakebound said:


> Snip>
> Good luck to you too, and you Ghillie. Bow season starts here monday....man...I'm not ready.



Ya, I gotta find my bow!!


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## Climbing Cutter (Sep 10, 2008)

If you check around you can get short pieces of rope on clearance $ale


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## AviD (Sep 16, 2008)

Hey guys, sorry I didn't respond back for awhile...work is a bloodpit right now.

I've reformed my selection a bit...and was thinking of going a bit heavier with 5/8" (I guess better off being overkill than underkill) with 8mm prusiks (think 8mm would be good for 5/8"?)

Here's where I'm at material wise now:

5/8" New England KMIII as the main line
8mm Petzel Rescue Cord as the prusik material

Thanks for the tip on accessory vs rescue cord.

It will cost me roughly the same as the commercial setups.

I called on commercial company and they said they are using "some kind of mountain climbing rope" and couldn't answer the exact diameter. I looked at my buddy's setup from them, and it looks to be about 3/8" rope or so. It doesn't state what it's rated for.

Ultimately the setup needs to be able to support a freefall impact of only a few feet (2-4')...and my buddy has the high end of the weight since he is 6'8" and probably around 300lbs or so.

Either way, I think the setup I've chosen will be safer although a bit "bulkier", but it's a one time setup per stand, per season...so I can deal with that.


Please let me know if you have any additional thoughts on the chosen setup.

Thanks again guys!

P.S. Good luck hunting!

P.P.S. My buddy and I were out on Saturday with the bows and we both scored on antlerless deer here in NJ!


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## rbtree (Sep 17, 2008)

AviD said:


> Hey guys, sorry I didn't respond back for awhile...work is a bloodpit right now.
> 
> I've reformed my selection a bit...and was thinking of going a bit heavier with 5/8" (I guess better off being overkill than underkill) with 8mm prusiks (think 8mm would be good for 5/8"?)
> 
> ...




overkill.....3/8th (9 mm) is all you need. 3/8th static is rated at 5000 lb or so...more than enough. 6 mm prussic cord will work fine on it. 7/16th would be a better size...could handle more strength loss due to UV degradation.


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