# vermeer 352 stumpgrinder Turbo charger



## Jimma (Feb 26, 2016)

Had my turbo charger fail recently on my 352 stump grinder. It has a Diahatsu Diesel 34 HP engine, Model 58A447 0234 E2. It runs but smokes like crazy, the residue dries up so I guess it is carbon. The thing that stumps me is that I sprayed some carb cleaner on the area around the turbo to clean it up so I could find some identification numbers and the smoke went wild. Don't know how it got into the turbo. It may have a leaky hose or gasket. I don't see any obvious paces it could penetrate, but it apparently did. Anyway, I think I am going to have the turbo rebuilt or maybe get a new one, need the tax break. anyone happen to know what turbo charger is on this engine or where I could get it? I assume I'll need it when I go looking for someone to work on it.


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## CalTreeEquip (Feb 28, 2016)

You should rebuild it. The problem is Daihatsu has discontinued that engine and parts are not available.
Vermeer isn't any help either.
You might want to do an Ebay search.


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## Jimma (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks Caltree. I'm afraid to play with turbo chargers, but I played around with it yesterday and think I can work it out. The impeller shaft has a lot of play so I guess I'm replacing the Turbo. Fortunately, I have another blown Diahatsu laying around and that turbo seems fine so I'll put that on and see what happens, then I will see if I can find someone who will rebuild the one I took off. My problem in this area is that I can't find anyone who will work on the stump grinder. I would have just bought a new one, $1400 plus tubes and hoses, but it's hard to find the correct parts because the vermeer parts are all exclusive and you can't find compatible replacements. It would be nice if someone made a comparability chart of the parts.


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## CalTreeEquip (Feb 29, 2016)

I spend a lot of time looking for after-market and surplus parts. There is a lot of info out there if you look. Many dealers on Ebay publish extensive compatibility lists for their parts.
Not always sure if I can trust it but so far I have not been burned. Regardless it sure is easier than driving from shop to shop and searching wrecking yards like we use to have to do.


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## CalTreeEquip (Feb 29, 2016)

Oh, and don't get rid of your spare engine. For that matter if you come across more buy them. There are a lot of those 352's out there and they will all needs parts eventually.


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## Jimma (Feb 29, 2016)

If I could get the correct specs for the parts, I'd have a lot more luck. But you probably already know that vermeer wont give them out most of the parts only have the vermeer part number on them. I do occasionally luck out with a manufacturing number, but mostly not. I appreciate the comment, encourages me.


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## Jimma (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes I kept the spare engine and encouraged the guy that I bought it from to keep me in mind if he came across another. Came very close to sending the blown engine back for the core deposit but lost a turbo charger on one of my machines before putting it in the mail. It's too bad, because with the revolution wheel on it, I love the way they cut. I have a couple of them and always looking for parts.


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## Eq Broker (Mar 1, 2016)

I have sold a turbo in the past for a Diahatsu in the past. If you could provide me with the numbers on the turbo, I can get you a price.

Thanks,

Dave
Global Equipment Exporters
770-420-6400


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## Jimma (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks Dave, I'll get back to you when I get the old turbo off and can look at it. I have a set of numbers in my repair manual that I wrote down, but I'm not sure where they came from. It says IHI turbo, Spec RHF 3 U038 0401, 26 48 8B, 17200 97202K. I'm pretty sure I took those numbers off aa blown engine that I had laying around, exact same engine.


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## kiwidiesel (Mar 1, 2016)

The engine was sold as a Briggs and Stratton. Try them, they should be holding parts.
We replaced one of ours with an aftermarket turbo and it was the same make [IHI] with a different no. Any Diesel Injector shop should be able to source them.
They don't like dirty oil, it will destroy the bearing surfaces really quickly. 100 hrs is the max between changes, earlier in hot climates, and don't use crap oil. They are Japanese and built to fine tolerances.


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## Eq Broker (Mar 2, 2016)

I was able to find the part number for the IHI turbo from a previous sale. I can get a new turbo for $1,050.71 plus freight.

If you have any questions, please contact me at the number below.

Thanks,

Dave
Global Equipment Exporters
770-420-6400


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## Jimma (Mar 28, 2016)

So I took a used turbo off an old engine I had replaced, same engine. It worked great for a month or so, then it started spewing out black smoke again, but only when the cutter wheel was actually cutting wood. It didn't smoke at all when the motor was running without the wheel engaged and when it was, when you lift the wheel away from the wood, it stopped. Probably going to call Dave for a new turbo, but I hate to put a new one on and it last only a month. Don't know anything about turbos and am hoping someone will be able to tell me to check some 50 cent part before I go any further. When I changed the turbo, I didn't get new hoses or pipes for the turbo, but changed all the gaskets and used all the hoses and pipes from the used working turbo. I did wonder how to clean out all the carbon that must of been left from when the original turbo had a catastrophic failure and spewed copious amounts of smoke out. Hoping someone will call me an idiot and tell me what I forgot, this is going to get very expensive I'm thinking.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Mar 28, 2016)

Jimma said:


> So I took a used turbo off an old engine I had replaced, same engine. It worked great for a month or so, then it started spewing out black smoke again, but only when the cutter wheel was actually cutting wood. It didn't smoke at all when the motor was running without the wheel engaged and when it was, when you lift the wheel away from the wood, it stopped. Probably going to call Dave for a new turbo, but I hate to put a new one on and it last only a month. Don't know anything about turbos and am hoping someone will be able to tell me to check some 50 cent part before I go any further. When I changed the turbo, I didn't get new hoses or pipes for the turbo, but changed all the gaskets and used all the hoses and pipes from the used working turbo. I did wonder how to clean out all the carbon that must of been left from when the original turbo had a catastrophic failure and spewed copious amounts of smoke out. Hoping someone will call me an idiot and tell me what I forgot, this is going to get very expensive I'm thinking.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Mar 28, 2016)

Sounds like you might have a [over fueling condition]but before we go there a few things to check,check air filter and intake hose to turbo,check for restriction like intake hose colasping,pull intake hose off turbo and see if turbo turning freely,and not scraping against the housing.Not familure with the set up but if it has a wastegate valve see if it moves freely,if it has a wastegate valve there will be a diaphram with a rod going to the turbo housing and also a hose running from the turbo to the diaphram.If the wastegate is stuck open,turbo will no build up boost, and not giving engine enough air under load,it will be over fueling under load.When you replaced the old turbo,was it sucking oil out of base causing black smoke,was the bearings gone causing the turbo vains to bind on the housing?If you check oil and is making oil ,which means it is rising on dip stick,you might have a bad injector,or pump over fueling,but you would have black smoke all the time.You might want to check hose and clamps from the pressure side of the turbo to the intake for cracks and leaks.


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## Eq Broker (Mar 29, 2016)

I don't know how long the old turbo was sitting. In most cases a bearing in the turbo goes bad. You can check the fan in the turbo by grabbing the stem coming through the fan and see if you feel any play. This will tell you that the bearing is bad. Also, check the blades on the fan. If you see the ends of the blades are shiney, too much dirt has been passing through the air filters and the fan is bad as well.

Hope this helps!

Dave
Global Equipment Exporters
770-420-6400


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## Stump Grinder52 (Mar 29, 2016)

Eq Broker said:


> I don't know how long the old turbo was sitting. In most cases a bearing in the turbo goes bad. You can check the fan in the turbo by grabbing the stem coming through the fan and see if you feel any play. This will tell you that the bearing is bad. Also, check the blades on the fan. If you see the ends of the blades are shiney, too much dirt has been passing through the air filters and the fan is bad as well.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> ...


The turbo shaft should have a few thousandths end and up and down play,but like Dave said if the intake fan side of the turbo is pitted and shinny thats a bad sign, also if you pull the the hose from the intake to the turbo and is oil soaked,that means oil is bypassing the bearing and going directly into the engine and will eventually cause engine to run away cause it's getting it's own supply of fuel.


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## Jimma (Mar 29, 2016)

The turbo I [ut in only sat for a month or so in doors and the shaft had no play at all when I installed it. As for the other stuff, I haven't had time to check it out yet but I really really appreciate the advise. It started coming on very fast like maybe some of the carbon build up from the last turbo failure got sucked in or caused a fuel blockage somewhere. Would a fouled glow plug or a bad glow plug cause too much fuel to not burn and cause the smoke? I did change the glow plugs the other day and it started right up and didn't smoke, but I haven't put the cutter to wood yet, so I don't know if it had any effect.


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## Eq Broker (Mar 29, 2016)

I just reviewed all the previous posts and I don't think the glow plugs would cause the smoke. If I'm not mistaking, a bad glow plug would effect the starting of the engine and possibly running the engine in very cold weather. I think the glow plug only works when you pre-heat the fuel for cold starts. I had a thought that it could be an injector however, it should produce white or blue smoke. I just don't think the turbo is spooling up under a load. 

Just my opinion. 

Dave


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## Jimma (Mar 30, 2016)

Hi Dave, thanks. I'm not sure what the term "Spooling up" means. Does it mean that the turbo is not operating fast enough to handle the fuel out put? Maybe the fuel comng in too fast or the turbo not spinning or operating fast enough? Hope that is not a stupid question. I have no idea how turbos work.


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## Eq Broker (Mar 30, 2016)

There are no stupid questions. It means that the turbo isn't working under a load. Usually, you will hear a little whistle when the turbo is working. You might hear it on a diesel truck when the driver steps on the pedal. If you're not hearing that, the turbo isn't working.

Hope this helps!

Dave


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## Jimma (Mar 30, 2016)

Thanks Dave, it helps a lot. I probably won't have a chance to look at it until this weekend, but it helps to know what I'm looking for. I appreciate it. You may want want to keep the e turbo handy. I may be calling you soon. Hope it is something simple, but we'll see.


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## Jimma (Apr 20, 2016)

So I changed the turbo, thanks Dave, and the machine runs great and I can hear the turbo spinning. But I still seem to have a fuel issue. It starts right up, but blows out black/bluish smoke for a few seconds then when you rev it up it smokes a little again. Haven't put the cutter to wood yet, so I don't know what will happen then. My question would be, when the first turbo went, it had a catastrophic failure and the carbon completely covered the machine, and quite comically, me too. The second turbo, put in used, went two weeks later. I always suspected it had to do with all the carbon in everything. Before putting the new turbo in, I cleaned everything up as best I could. but I wonder if anything got gummed up apart from the turbo components? The second question if anyone can help is, if this continues to smoke, I would guess it is caused by the injectors. I have a spare motor that I can take the injectors out of. Can I pull them out and put them in this machine like a spark plug without having to make any adjustments if they are good? I really don't want to bring it to an injector specialist if I can help it.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 20, 2016)

Jimma said:


> So I changed the turbo, thanks Dave, and the machine runs great and I can hear the turbo spinning. But I still seem to have a fuel issue. It starts right up, but blows out black/bluish smoke for a few seconds then when you rev it up it smokes a little again. Haven't put the cutter to wood yet, so I don't know what will happen then. My question would be, when the first turbo went, it had a catastrophic failure and the carbon completely covered the machine, and quite comically, me too. The second turbo, put in used, went two weeks later. I always suspected it had to do with all the carbon in everything. Before putting the new turbo in, I cleaned everything up as best I could. but I wonder if anything got gummed up apart from the turbo components? The second question if anyone can help is, if this continues to smoke, I would guess it is caused by the injectors. I have a spare motor that I can take the injectors out of. Can I pull them out and put them in this machine like a spark plug without having to make any adjustments if they are good? I really don't want to bring it to an injector specialist if I can help it.


Yes you can but i would take them to a place[Boston Fuel Injection ]and have them tested.That way you know your putting in something good and not replacing it with junk.


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## Jimma (Apr 21, 2016)

Thanks, I will bring them and the spare set to have them tested. Other than the smoke issue, it runs great, at least with no load. I'll take it out and try it next week and see what happens. But it does seem to be getting too much fuel, at least when first cranked. Just don't want to gunk everything up and have another turbo problem. Next step is testing the injectors then moving on to the fuel pump. Thanks for the responce.


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## Jimma (Apr 22, 2016)

So after putting the new turbo in, the grinder ran fine, but does blow out a little black smoke when starting and when sudden acceleration. But I used it today and when the grinding wheel starts to cut wood, the black smoke increases dramatically. *Check all the hoses and tubes and found the crank case breathing tube all gunked up*. After cleaning it out and replacing it, the engine still put out black smoke when starting and acceleration. But when I took out the air filter, the smoke was blue. Put the filter back in and it was black. Not sure that means anything.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 22, 2016)

Jimma said:


> So after putting the new turbo in, the grinder ran fine, but does blow out a little black smoke when starting and when sudden acceleration. But I used it today and when the grinding wheel starts to cut wood, the black smoke increases dramatically. *Check all the hoses and tubes and found the crank case breathing tube all gunked up*. After cleaning it out and replacing it, the engine still put out black smoke when starting and acceleration. But when I took out the air filter, the smoke was blue. Put the filter back in and it was black. Not sure that means anything.


When you remove the filter your getting more air.What condition is the air filter,does it have a two stage filter system?Which means a inner and outer filter.If you removed the filter and smoke cleared up ,you had a filter problem,sounds like your over fueling.The down side of[ rolling coal] like it's doing is excessive cylinder heat,tough on pistons,excessive fuel going by pistons rings to crankcase,could cause scoring of pistons,cylinder walls.Not trying to scare you,just fact.


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## Jimma (Apr 23, 2016)

It has a 2 stage filter and I replaced both. When you pull out the filters, the smoke turns from black to blueish, but still smokes. The port where the oil outlet tube has a lot of gunk in it at the turbo and the crank case breather tube. But it doesn't smoke all the time, just when first starting and when the cutter wheel is actually cutting into a stump. That smoke is black. I don't know much about diesels, actually not much about any internals of any engine, But seems like there might be a valve problem. The real problem is that I can't get a diesel mechanic to look at it. Too small for the heavy machine guys and too weird for the regular mechanics. Are there breather ports or something in the valve area? Can I use some type of cleaner to flush it out, I already used something in the fuel.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 24, 2016)

Jimma said:


> It has a 2 stage filter and I replaced both. When you pull out the filters, the smoke turns from black to blueish, but still smokes. The port where the oil outlet tube has a lot of gunk in it at the turbo and the crank case breather tube. But it doesn't smoke all the time, just when first starting and when the cutter wheel is actually cutting into a stump. That smoke is black. I don't know much about diesels, actually not much about any internals of any engine, But seems like there might be a valve problem. The real problem is that I can't get a diesel mechanic to look at it. Too small for the heavy machine guys and too weird for the regular mechanics. Are there breather ports or something in the valve area? Can I use some type of cleaner to flush it out, I already used something in the fuel.


You have been talking to one with over 40 yrs .experience , started off 1970 heavy equipment,evolved to trucks in the mid 70's,retired as a lead tech in 2012 from a trucking company,been grinding stumps for 6yrs.,first two years part time, been doing it full time for the last four.


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## Jimma (Apr 25, 2016)

"Stump grinder 52" you're the one I have been seeking for advise, help. I have 2 vermeer 352's, exactly the same. I just want to keep one running so I can work. Right now, one is running and the other is producing a lot of black smoke when grinding and I'm thinking whatever is is is the cause of taking down 2 turbos within a month. Just got the other grinder back Saturday after having it welded in a couple of places. The next time that both machines go down at the same time, will probably be the day I retire. I'd rather hang on for another year or two, but it's getting tiring keep things running.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 25, 2016)

Jimma said:


> "Stump grinder 52" you're the one I have been seeking for advise, help. I have 2 vermeer 352's, exactly the same. I just want to keep one running so I can work. Right now, one is running and the other is producing a lot of black smoke when grinding and I'm thinking whatever is is is the cause of taking down 2 turbos within a month. Just got the other grinder back Saturday after having it welded in a couple of places. The next time that both machines go down at the same time, will probably be the day I retire. I'd rather hang on for another year or two, but it's getting tiring keep things running.


Jimma,I have responded four times to this post,have injectors checked.One last thing,the turbo you installed is the same size you took off intake [inducer side] .


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## Jimma (Apr 25, 2016)

Hey Stumper, I really appreciate all your responses. I did intend to have the injectors tested. But when I saw the gunk in the hoses, I immediately thought I had a plugged breather or valve. Now I know you are much more informed than me, I'll check the injectors next. Thank you. (One last thing,the turbo you installed is the same size you took off intake [inducer side] . Not sure what you mean, but the turbo I installed is the same size as the one I took off.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 26, 2016)

Jimma said:


> Hey Stumper, I really appreciate all your responses. I did intend to have the injectors tested. But when I saw the gunk in the hoses, I immediately thought I had a plugged breather or valve. Now I know you are much more informed than me, I'll check the injectors next. Thank you. (One last thing,the turbo you installed is the same size you took off intake [inducer side] . Not sure what you mean, but the turbo I installed is the same size as the one I took off.


Some how i thought maybe the intake side of the turbo might be smaller than the one you took off,giving it less air,which would throw your fuel calibrations off.But you would have noticed it,cause your intake hose would be larger and fit loosely over turbo.Just trying to cover all bases.Good luck.


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## Jimma (Apr 26, 2016)

Interesting question and I'm going to take a closer look at the size of the intake. I remember thinking when I put that hose on that it didn't seem as snug as I thought it would be. By snug, I mean it slid right on rather than having to force it on. But the symptoms were being exhibited before I changed the turbo so it would be an additional or contributing problem. But I'll check to be sure.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 26, 2016)

Jimma said:


> Interesting question and I'm going to take a closer look at the size of the intake. I remember thinking when I put that hose on that it didn't seem as snug as I thought it would be. By snug, I mean it slid right on rather than having to force it on. But the symptoms were being exhibited before I changed the turbo so it would be an additional or contributing problem. But I'll check to be sure.


Jimma,Are you saying you are having the same problem[blowing black smoke under load] as you had before installing the turbo?


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## Jimma (Apr 26, 2016)

Exactly. It started with the original turbo. It had a catastrophic failure, covering the machine, the walls, me with carbon. Pulled off the intake hose and the turbo shaft was flopping around. I put in a used turbo from another engine I had, same type and model, and the machine worked fine for a couple of weeks maybe, a month. The shaft on this turbo had no play at all when I put it in and showed no smoke when I used it. Then it started to blow black smoke when I would start to cut stumps. Pull it off the stumps and it would stop. So I pulled off the intake hose and sure enough, the shaft of that turbo was very lose. I put in a brand new turbo and it looked good until I put the cutter to a stump and black smoke. I figured the left over carbon from the first failure must have clogs something and caused the second failure. When I changed to the used turbo, I also put in the hoses that were with it that seemed clean but after I pulled that turbo out, the valve cover hose that goes to the air intake was full of gunk as was the oil outlet tube. Changed them, but still the same problem. Starts right up and runs fine with no noticeable smoke except a few puffs when starting, but put the cutter to wood and black smoke.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 27, 2016)

Jimma said:


> Exactly. It started with the original turbo. It had a catastrophic failure, covering the machine, the walls, me with carbon. Pulled off the intake hose and the turbo shaft was flopping around. I put in a used turbo from another engine I had, same type and model, and the machine worked fine for a couple of weeks maybe, a month. The shaft on this turbo had no play at all when I put it in and showed no smoke when I used it. Then it started to blow black smoke when I would start to cut stumps. Pull it off the stumps and it would stop. So I pulled off the intake hose and sure enough, the shaft of that turbo was very lose. I put in a brand new turbo and it looked good until I put the cutter to a stump and black smoke. I figured the left over carbon from the first failure must have clogs something and caused the second failure. When I changed to the used turbo, I also put in the hoses that were with it that seemed clean but after I pulled that turbo out, the valve cover hose that goes to the air intake was full of gunk as was the oil outlet tube. Changed them, but still the same problem. Starts right up and runs fine with no noticeable smoke except a few puffs when starting, but put the cutter to wood and black smoke.


If your around late afternoon/early evening give me a call,i would like to discuss your problem, 774 644 0038 Joe


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## Jimma (Apr 27, 2016)

OK Joe, right after talking to you I went out and fired up the machine and sprayed the heck out of every hose, connection, everything. The engine ran and sounded like new and never let out a puff of smoke. What ever leaked the first turbo failure, must have been corrected in the change.. So I guess I'm back to looking at the injectors. But I appreciate the help. Is there some sort of relay, electrical reason that the turbo would fire up when under load? It seems to be running clean at an idle and even when I rev it up, other than a momentary puff of smoke. Or is there some electrical reason that the injectors might produce more fuel under load?


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## Stump Grinder52 (Apr 27, 2016)

Jimma said:


> OK Joe, right after talking to you I went out and fired up the machine and sprayed the heck out of every hose, connection, everything. The engine ran and sounded like new and never let out a puff of smoke. What ever leaked the first turbo failure, must have been corrected in the change.. So I guess I'm back to looking at the injectors. But I appreciate the help. Is there some sort of relay, electrical reason that the turbo would fire up when under load? It seems to be running clean at an idle and even when I rev it up, other than a momentary puff of smoke. Or is there some electrical reason that the injectors might produce more fuel under load?


I'm 99% sure your injectors are not electrical,your injector pump pushes fuel to the injector,the injector pump is calibrated to push fuel to the injector at lets say 3000 psi,now the injector is calibrated to pop at 3000 psi,by pop i mean spray a very fine atomized mist of fuel,much finer than a aerosol can spray mist.The holes in the nozzel of the tip of the injector are about the diameter of a hair.Now as time goes by the holes get bigger and let more fuel into the cylinder,i have also seen tips blow out of the injector,dumping raw fuel into the cylinder causing black smoke at idle and skipping.Now as an injector gets old the calibration can go out causing it to pop at a lower psi causing premature dumping of fuel and and a poor atomization .Both of these condition cause a over fueling conditions.The numbers i gave you for pressures is just an example.The diesels of today have electronic accuaters controlled by a ECM[computer] and pop at between 25/30k ,hope this helps,Jim


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## Jimma (Apr 28, 2016)

Thank you for that explanation, I'm complete illiterate about injectors and how they work. My next step will be to get them tested and either solve the problem or eliminate another possible cause.


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## Jimma (Apr 28, 2016)

I just reread your last response about the injector and turbo popping at 3000 psi. I didn't get the timing of the injector and turbo until I just read that. It's starting to come into focus a bit and I have a much better understanding of what I'm looking for. I may forget by morning, but the light bulb is flickering right now. Thanks brother.


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## hseII (Apr 28, 2016)

This was so much simpler,( Less Expensive), when we were about talking Mechanical pump & lines systems.


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## kiwidiesel (May 1, 2016)

hseII said:


> This was so much simpler,( Less Expensive), when we were about talking Mechanical pump & lines systems.


They make qualified Diesel mechanics to diagnose problems like this. Why not try one. He could save you a lot of money in a very short time.


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## Jimma (May 2, 2016)

If I could find a qualified diesel mechanic in my area that would work on a stump grinder, I would. But thanks for the advise.


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## Jimma (Jun 3, 2016)

Back to getting this grinder back to work. I blew a turbo charger and replaced it with a used one, it ran great for a month or so then gave out, black smoke all the time. Got a new turbo and it started right up with a puff of black smoke but cleared up in a few seconds. Went to full throttle and another puff of black smoke but again cleared up in a few seconds. Took it to the job and ran it up to the stump just fine. Engaged the wheel and another puff of black smoke which cleared up again. Then I lowered the wheel to the stump and full on black smoke. This time it didn't clear up until I lifted the wheel away from the stump, then is cleared up. I think it may have also lost some rpm when I was grinding but not sure. Checked every hose and line and injectors but no change. I have another bad engine that has the same fuel injector on it that I may try next, but not sure that is the problem. Does anyone know if the waste gate should be opening when you call for more powers or under a load. I can't see the arm move or any change no matter what rpm or when the wheel is engaged. its a brand new turbo so I assume the waste gate if fine, but if it should be opening and closing, what would cause it to operate or not operate. Does the turbo or fuel pump have any electronic trigger to push more or less fuel? What triggers the waste gate and how can I test it?


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## fordf150 (Jun 3, 2016)

Start with basics...its either over fueling or not enough boost. no/low boost is the easiest to check out with your limited knowledge of diesel engines.

1. start by check for and correcting any exhaust leaks between the engine and the turbo. exhaust gases that escape without passing thru the turbo is lost boost

2. check the fresh air supply starting with ensuring it has a clean filter. Use brand name filters because the cheap ones are often times too restrictive or poorly made. follow all you plumbing from the air filter housing to the turbo...remember there is "suction" on this side of the turbo so any oil saturated rubber hose that feel soft should be checked to be sure they arent collapsing when the turbo starts to spool up. Check all hoses and connections between the turbo and the intake,this side of the turbo is pressured up so any places that there is a rip/tear/hole in the hose or a bad gasket/missing plug in the intake needs repaired/replaced because you will be losing your boost.

mechanical engines often times give a puff of black smoke at start up and when first throttled up, its normal. continued black smoke at full throttle is overfueling or low/no boost. they will also blow some black smoke if you are lugging them while at WOT.

new turbo i wouldnt suspect anything wrong with the wastegate but 

CHECKING WASTE GATE ACTUATOR 1. Disconnect the waste gate actuator hose at the actuator. 2. Connect pressure/vacuum pump, Tool #19493. 3. Apply pressure of 14.2 psi (0.9 bar) and ensure that the rod and link operate. 4. When pressure is released rod and link must return to original position. NOTE: DO NOT apply pressure more than 21.3 psi (1.5 bar) to the waste gate actuator or the diaphragm will be damaged. 5. If the actuator hose is damaged or cracked it must be replaced.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Jun 3, 2016)

Jimma said:


> Back to getting this grinder back to work. I blew a turbo charger and replaced it with a used one, it ran great for a month or so then gave out, black smoke all the time. Got a new turbo and it started right up with a puff of black smoke but cleared up in a few seconds. Went to full throttle and another puff of black smoke but again cleared up in a few seconds. Took it to the job and ran it up to the stump just fine. Engaged the wheel and another puff of black smoke which cleared up again. Then I lowered the wheel to the stump and full on black smoke. This time it didn't clear up until I lifted the wheel away from the stump, then is cleared up. I think it may have also lost some rpm when I was grinding but not sure. Checked every hose and line and injectors but no change. I have another bad engine that has the same fuel injector on it that I may try next, but not sure that is the problem. Does anyone know if the waste gate should be opening when you call for more powers or under a load. I can't see the arm move or any change no matter what rpm or when the wheel is engaged. its a brand new turbo so I assume the waste gate if fine, but if it should be opening and closing, what would cause it to operate or not operate. Does the turbo or fuel pump have any electronic trigger to push more or less fuel? What triggers the waste gate and how can I test it?


Jim,a waste gate valve is nothing but a boost regulator,it is mechanical not electrical as far as i know,no wires running to it.What it does is when the engine is under load,and the boost exceeds the turbos parameters,it by passes the boost,to the exhaust side.You won't build up boost with no load.To check if it works it should be connected to either the pressure side of the turbo or intake manifold,disconnect line from there and blow into it or use low compressed air like 10/15 psi,you should see rod from valve move.If it doesn't move take it off and try again and see if it moves,while it's off check and see where it's connected to moves,that might be frozen or binding up,should move freely .If frozen or binding hit it with Blaster or WD40 to free up,could be your problem.


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## Jimma (Jun 4, 2016)

Hey Joe, Thank you. I was going to call you but didn't want to be a pest. I'm thinking that the stump grinder worked fine with the used turbo on it before it crashed. Then all smoke all the time. Then I put the new one on and it only smokes when under load. Makes me thin that I may have done something that may have caused this lastest thing. I replaced almost all the gaskets and checked and
cleaned most of the pipes and hoses. Those that were iffy, I replaced with the ones that were in good shape from the old engine I had. I sprayed every connection with carb cleaner
to see if anything was leaking but there wasn't. Haven't had a lot of time lately, but I'll have to get it running right soon. I'm going to order all the hoses and pipes and replace them with new ones, then I suppose I may take the fuel pump off the other engine and give t


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## Jimma (Jul 2, 2016)

So I haven't had much time to fool around with this machine but I did get it back together with a new turbo charger, hoses, gaskets, air filter and fuel filter and fuel injectors. Started it and it runs fine but seems to put out a bigger than normal puff of black smoke when starting and when accelerating. Then clears up and runs fine, but when the wheel makes contact with a stump the black smoke gets thick and seems to loose RPMs. So today I took it apart again and noticed the fan on the new turbo was frozen, So I took the turbo off and there was a lot of carbon build up in the turbo which may explain why the fan wouldn't turn. I freed up the fan and it seems to move freely now and doesn't seem to have much play. But before I put it back together, I'm wondering how that much carbon could build up in the short amount of time I had it running, I tested it on 2 or three stumps, that's it. Maybe the fan jammed as soon as I first turned it on and may have contributed or maybe the carbon caused the fan to jam. Anyway, I really can't afford any more turbos and want to put this one back on, but I would like to put it on clean and free from any build up to see if it happens again. Can I rinse the turbo out with acetone or something to get it fairly clean and moving freely before I put it back? Should I bother putting this one back on or get it rebuilt or something.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Jul 3, 2016)

Jim give me a call ,Joe


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## Jimma (Jul 16, 2016)

(So I haven't had much time to fool around with this machine but I did get it back together with a new turbo charger, hoses, gaskets, air filter and fuel filter and fuel injectors.) So I took off the new turbo and freed up the fan. Figured the oil may not be lubricating enough so I checked the oil pressure and it was right where it was suppose to be (5 bars). Not sure where to go from here. There is a breather tube coming off the valve cover that marries the air intake to the turbo. I don't know that it means anything, but I pinched to tub just to see if I could duplicate the problem. Smoke did come out the exhaust but it was much lighter smoke, light blueish. Could a stuck or clogged valve cause this? It runs pretty good until it starts to cut the stump, then black smoke. Seems the turbo isn't going into boost. After I ran it the last time, I checked the fan in the turbo and it hadn't frozen like the last time and seemed to move freely.


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## Jimma (Oct 31, 2016)

I'm getting ready to sell this stump grinder but I wanted to fix it first. Hate to stick anyone with my junk./ It runs very well, but when you put the cutting wheel on a stump, it smokes . Put on a new turbo, filters, fuel injectors, and many hoses etc. Still smokes when it touches wood. Not sure if the turbo is working properly but it doesn't seem to go into boost when laboring. The only strange thing I can see is, the valve cover has a breather tube coming out of it that marries up with the intake tube going into the turbo. If you disconnect that tube, steady smoke, not very heavy, comes out of the valve cover leaving some oil on the intake side of the turbo. It might be normal, I don't know. But one of the many mechanics that have looked at it, disconnected the intake hose and saw a little oil in the turbo and said the turbo was no good. The turbo was brand new. I have another new turbo, but I don't want to put it in unless I know the current turbo is bad, they are very expensive. Anyone got any clues?


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## 82F100SWB (Nov 8, 2016)

Your black smoke is an overfuelling condition. The governor in your injection pump is a load sensing unit, so, when rpm decreases from what you have it set at due to load, fuel rate increases to bring it back to the desired rpm. A puff of black is normal on startup with a mechanical pump, as the governor is at max fuel trying to turn cranking speed into idle speed. 
I can't find any good pictures of your engine, but it looks to have a non boost referenced pump, so if you don't have enough airflow it is going to smoke like a banshee.
The valve cover breather hose is an emissions item, soley so that the blowby gets burnt. It shouldn't cause an overfuelling condition unless the engine is very worn out, and if it starts eating it's own oil, it is going to run away, not smoke black under load.
You need to get a boost pressure guage on this unit, so you can verify that the turbo is actually doing anything, and that the wastegate is functioning. You could even try temporarily wiring the wastegate shut to make sure it isn't opening prematurely, but, I would not do it without having a guage on it. 
What are you running for oil in this engine, and how old is it? Have you verified that the turbo oil drain is free of obstructions and flows freely?
Turbos don't just go bad, and some shaft play is OK, as long as the wheel doesn't touch the housing it is runable, with the engine running, the film of oil in the bearing tightens up the clearance and will keep the shaft centered.
If the turbo bearing isn't getting coked up, I think you may have a fuel rate issue rather than an actual turbo problem, however I have never personally seen the exhaust side of a turbo get caked up with soot to the point it wouldn't spin, even with severe overfuelling they usually just try harder and keep spinning.


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## Jimma (Nov 8, 2016)

Thank you for responding 82F100SWB. You were very helpful and it gives me a couple more things to try before tampering with the engine rings. It all started with a total failure of the turbo, black carbon all the time. I put a used turbo in and it was fine for a month or so then black smoke under load. I replaced it with a new one and no improvement. When I took off the intake hose I just tried to spin the fan to see if it was freely spinning and it appeared to be frozen. I tried harder to spin it and it finally freed up. I bought it to a diesel mechanic who looked checked the intake and he saw some oil in the intake pipe and looked at the fans and said that turbo was junk. I bought another turbo but didn't install it yet. Because there was no change when I first installed the turbo, I thought it was probably something in the injection pump. But if I damaged the turbo, I might have 2 problems. A local mechanic told me that there shouldn't be any oil on the intake side of the turbo, which there was so he convinced me that the rings or maybe a valve problem so I was considering an engine rebuild. I use motella synthetic 5-40 oil and change it regularly. Haven't run it since the last change so the oil is fresh. I didn't know there was such a thing as a boost pressure gauge, that will be my next step. I really appreciate your response, thank you


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## 82F100SWB (Nov 8, 2016)

With the crankcase venting tied into the air intake, there will always be some oil in the intake side of the turbo, usually not a large amount, but there will always be some condensing out of the crankcase vapours. 
If it starts well and runs smoothly without any popping sounds out the intake or exhaust you can usually rule out compression or valve issues.


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## Jimma (Nov 9, 2016)

There was only a few drops of oil in the intake. There is no popping and it runs fine but doesn't amp up when cutting a stump. There seems to be a little blue smoke, but mostly black. One more simple question, if the rings were worn enough to lose only a small amount of compression, could that keep the turbo from building enough pressure to "boost"?


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## 82F100SWB (Nov 9, 2016)

The turbo operates on airflow, generally a small loss of compression doesn't have any real effect.


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## Jimma (Dec 12, 2016)

So I finally ran down the problem with the smoking vermeer. When this problem started, I replaced the turbo with a new turbo, an off market brand, but that didn't cure the problem. So I started my epic search, replacing everything and working back and forth thru the system to eliminate what was wrong. Finally a mechanic suggested the rings may be leaking and that I should rebuild the engine. That was pretty much out of the question. I had the chance to buy another new turbo, the OEM version so I did. Replaced it and it worked perfect. Seems the first "new" turbo, wasn't working properly. Looks like the fins on the fan may have been damaged. Just assumed that the new turbo was working, because it was new and never thought to go back and check it out. Very expensive and wasted a whole lot of time.


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## Jimma (Feb 25, 2017)

So the long epic of the failed turbo continues. I put a new OEM turbo in and it worked perfect for about one month. In the middle of a job, it suddenly started smoking black when I made contact with the stump. I put it away for a while and when I went to move it, black smoke all the time, turned the snow around it carbon black in seconds. So I took it all apart and replaced a few hoses and the air filter system, no more black smoke. But now it smokes blue smoke. I hate diesels and turbo chargers. If anyone lives anywhere near the south shore in Massachusetts and has a diesel guy, I'd love to meet them.


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## Jimma (Apr 21, 2018)

So I finally changed the engine in one of my vermeer 352s from diesel to gas. The day I got it home, I went to start the other machine (I have 2 vermeer 352) which is still a diesel and it started to smoke. Actually it started to shoot oil out the exhaust. I checked the dip stick and found it shooting oil out when I took the stick out. I immediately thought the rings were shot. It stopped throwing the oil out of the exhaust after I changed the oil from 5 - 40 to a 5 - 30 weight. Probably had nothing to do with it, but that's what happened. Runs fine and doesn't smoke anymore but there is still a lot of pressure pushing the oil up the dip stick. Then I remembered a spoke to someone on this board a few years ago about the oi pressure problem on this Diahtsu engine and what caused it on his machine, something simple as I recalled. But my recollection only went that far and can't remember any other details and can't find it in any posts. This engine only has less than couple of hundred hours on it. Anyone have any ideas. The gas engine in the other machine costs $10000. Don't think I want to o that again. 
_
If you check oil and is making oil ,which means it is rising on dip stick,you might have a bad injector,or pump over fueling,but you would have black smoke all the time.You might want to check hose and clamps from the pressure side of the turbo to the intake for cracks and leaks._


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