# Brother hood



## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2008)

Why could we not form a brother hood of tree professionals
with the intent of helping its members in catastrophic events?
Pay dues and dues are invested to generate an umbrella to form
insurance to its members. Members vote on elections and elections
are per two year term to represent our group in investments and
make sure payments get to injured or dead members. It has been a topic I have been contemplating many years, with insurance costs and Government being inadequate in these categories. We would vote on what to pay the leaders in these terms with the ability to fire them if they are not performing our wishes. Set it up not for profit to take greed out of the equation, with only one purpose to protect its members and provide solutions to insurance scheme of present day!


----------



## masterarbor (Mar 24, 2008)

hhhmmmm? i'd like to hear some more. how much you figure it would cost and what kind of benefits would it pay. just in injury? death? it would be cool to do something like this for WC. a businessman friend of mine was saying that you can get private WC insurance with an enormous deductible and then get another policy to cover the deductible. i didn't really look into it. wouldn't it be nice to have a tree industry program designed to protect its members?


VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
:rockn:  :rockn:  :rockn:  :rockn:  
KEVIN


----------



## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2008)

Well its just a thought that would need its members to steer
in directions toward savings! I am just a redneck with visions!
It needs a group to steer it and make it what we need. The 
number of its members and investing strategies would determine
dues! If every person that was paying too much now were to join
and our elected and non profit system were set up with only
service in mind it would work. We individually know what we spend
on commercial,wc, and every nit pick scheme they can think of
to keep the small business in the black. Think of the power of a 
group being coordinated by its own people with the only purpose
to help its members in financial and health needs! I know there is
some ins agent thats going to get in here saying blah, blah wont
work etc. The group would decide who and what it pays its leaders
and leaders would perform or could be removed via its members!
Keeping a fat ceo from ruining the set up! In other words setting
a wage instead of getting it up the rear. Anyway it is just speculation
by someone that gets ticked at insurance costs and schemes that
seem unethical and downright robbery.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Mar 25, 2008)

I know there are insurance agents/brokers who will put together insurance packages for groups. My professional forestry association has affiliate deals with a couple of agents for liability insurance and another for small business employee benefit packages. The deal is getting enough people together to make it worthwhile for the agent/broker to put together a package for the underwriters.

A good example is the local Chartered Accountants association. Because they could get a group of 3000 professionals together, the broker could find an underwriter to do their professional errors and ommissions insurance at a very good rate. 

The bigger the insured pool the better the rate. The key is finding the broker who can and will put the package together if you can come up with the people.

The other problem you may have is jurisdictional regulations ie state to state variations. I would suggest you talk to a large insurance broker (not a storefront operation) who specializes in insurance for associations.


----------



## ropensaddle (Mar 25, 2008)

BC WetCoast said:


> I know there are insurance agents/brokers who will put together insurance packages for groups. My professional forestry association has affiliate deals with a couple of agents for liability insurance and another for small business employee benefit packages. The deal is getting enough people together to make it worthwhile for the agent/broker to put together a package for the underwriters.
> 
> A good example is the local Chartered Accountants association. Because they could get a group of 3000 professionals together, the broker could find an underwriter to do their professional errors and ommissions insurance at a very good rate.
> 
> ...


I told you I am just a redneck but that is what insurance does , invest
to cover claims and give its ceo a big fat cuban! If the regulations keep
us from self insuring by club association, then it wrong. I can't see why
if enough people got together paid dues and selected leaders to represent
the interests of the group, it would be illegal. The investments safely and wisely invested to cover costs of claims, set up at non profit expense only! If it did not have a ten million dollar ceo sucking all its juice, would more than cover claim costs at far less dollars to its members. I see the broker fees and the problem would be marketing the idea to us hard headed tree
pro's!


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 25, 2008)

Rope, man sign me up! I ventured into this area, locally, back in '99 & again in'03. They simply laughed out loud. When business is bad ( now), they call, looking for contract work or employment. New Association of Tree Care ? Members ( 25 local companies- 150 people total- owners & employees ) looking for rates on vehicle insurance or workers comp. from ONE PROVIDER ? One GROUP ADVERTISEMENT ( Yellow-Pages & Cable T.V.). A CENTRAL OFFICE staffed with real people, taking vital information. A GROUP of EXPIERIENCED ARBORISTS & TREE CARE SALES PROFESSIONALS, immediate estimates now available. A DULY ELECTED BODY from our membership , holding weekly meetings to solve arising issues & arguments. Crews from the membership, working together to complete large projects, quickly & efficiently. Membership FUELING STATIONS (discounted pricing), VEHICLE PURCHASES AT fleet discounts. Imagine 4 or 5 GRAPPLE TRUCKS,CRANES OR STUMP GRINDERS, MEMBERSHIP OWNED & manned by employees, their job,cleaning-up, behind crews. DUMPS, membership owned,LUMBER,CHIPS & FIREWOOD BY-PRODUCTS sold & PROFITS funding & shared by the MEMBERSHIP. Any one could expand on this. Implementation: NEVER HAPPEN !


----------



## treemandan (Mar 25, 2008)

At the age of 22 with about 8 months of tree work under my belt I looked around and said to myself" This SHHit needs UNION !" 
At the age of 38 I take it back!
Something like that would be highly organized and, of course, have pros and con. Good idea it is though. Who is gonna run it?
If I did, it would be called The International Brotherhood of Tree Workers. I would wear a suit.


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 25, 2008)

GOOD REPLY: at 18 , I worked in the Allegheny-Ludlum Steel Mill, belonged to the United Steelworkers of America. It was great while it lasted. Now, in retrospect, age 63 , anything is possible, but not always sustainable !!! Too much time on my hands. Still climbing & sometimes ,thinking. Too old for anything else, it's called WISDOM !!!


----------



## ropensaddle (Mar 25, 2008)

As far as who runs it we do by group vote. The who runs it is the problem as; ceos milk it dry. Policy would need structure to protect anyone from attaining the I am the man syndrome! It creates problems when the group loses control as a group incorporates much wisdom and many views. Take for instance how many times I have been wrong on a topic here, it keeps ya from straying too far into left field, pun intended! Members vote, members nominate and members set wages for its leaders if they accept this wage and responsibility to seek the best for its members. We as members have the duty by vote, not unlike
rep here to put in who we want at a fair wage, not a killing. They can be removed by us, if they do not perform and these positions rotate in 2 or 4 year terms. It is just an Idea and needs more input and protection of the purpose to help members, it must never stray from that.


----------



## Gunsmoke (Mar 25, 2008)

Good idea! I think we should have a convention; one in the mid west then one in the west for our pacific brothers. We could make it for next winter and we could discuss all of these things. Let's keep this subject in the back of our minds at the beginning of this hopefully BUSY season. If some one wants to spear head the organizational part of this undertaking that would be great. 

International Tree Service Convention (Arborist,Tree Guys, Stump Grinder & Loggers welcome)

Columbus, OH
Jan. ____ - _____ , 2009

International Tree Service Convention
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb. ____ -_____ , 2009 
Looks like winner to me!!


----------



## johncinco (Mar 26, 2008)

I know a group that did this, and now 
http://www.amba.org/index.php?pr=About_AMBA

A small niche business, but they got together and formed an "association" and got some numbers and with that came a little bargaining power. I think they have about 400 companies now, all with several if not 100s of employees. 

I tried it with another website and their members, trouble is you have 3 people from one state and 5 from another, etc, etc, and you dont have the critical mass to make it work. 

The Presidient is a member, and works for free for the year. The staff is now up to about 4 people, they draw average salaries, nothing amazing. All non profit group. 

I'd be happy to pass on any info I can to help you out, and the steps it takes to get the paperwork rolling. The first place to start, is forming the assn, getting a tax ID, and laying out bylaws and rules. Its really not hard, but takes more hours thanyou might believe. 

The annual converntion? Last one I heard of was in the caribean! :hmm3grin2orange: 

WIIFM? I sell retirement plans, I sell a lot of them to this group. 
http://jbrooksfinancial.com/jbrooksfinancial.aspx


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 26, 2008)

My input was soley intended for a local Savannah, Ga. association. Maybe a total of 150 people. This was not well accepted by the locals. Probably would need a lot more time,effort & interest to launch. It's good to be independent, but there is strength in numbers !


----------



## masterarbor (Mar 26, 2008)

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> Rope, man sign me up! I ventured into this area, locally, back in '99 & again in'03. They simply laughed out loud. When business is bad ( now), they call, looking for contract work or employment. New Association of Tree Care ? Members ( 25 local companies- 150 people total- owners & employees ) looking for rates on vehicle insurance or workers comp. from ONE PROVIDER ? One GROUP ADVERTISEMENT ( Yellow-Pages & Cable T.V.). A CENTRAL OFFICE staffed with real people, taking vital information. A GROUP of EXPIERIENCED ARBORISTS & TREE CARE SALES PROFESSIONALS, immediate estimates now available. A DULY ELECTED BODY from our membership , holding weekly meetings to solve arising issues & arguments. Crews from the membership, working together to complete large projects, quickly & efficiently. Membership FUELING STATIONS (discounted pricing), VEHICLE PURCHASES AT fleet discounts. Imagine 4 or 5 GRAPPLE TRUCKS,CRANES OR STUMP GRINDERS, MEMBERSHIP OWNED & manned by employees, their job,cleaning-up, behind crews. DUMPS, membership owned,LUMBER,CHIPS & FIREWOOD BY-PRODUCTS sold & PROFITS funding & shared by the MEMBERSHIP. Any one could expand on this. Implementation: NEVER HAPPEN !



OLD CHIPMUNK FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 29, 2008)

re: Affordable Health Care Coverage for tree care workers ? Possible, but highly unlikely ! Why ? How do we, as individuals, notify potential members ? Could a survey be instituted to see if (a) an interest does exist & (b) how many are willing to sign up ? What types of coverages should be offered ? Individuals only or maybe family plans ? Should available plans be Regional or nationwide? Should plans be available at different premium levels ? How many members would it take to start ? Would one central, administrative office or claims center be sufficient to handle premiums & claims ? What types of claims should be covered ? Are you willing to pay a deductible ? Do you think a premium should be monthly,semi-annually or yearly. How many would be willing to pay $ 200,$ 300, $400, $500 monthly for excellent healthcare ? what percentage 10-15-20-or 25 would be reasonable for administrative costs ? Should we set a yearly maximum benefit ? How would you verify a claims validity ? Could prescription drugs be covered ? Add some thoughts or comments !!!!!!!


----------

