# Land Clearing - Burn Brush or Not?



## secureland (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi,

I'm opening up a couple of acres. Cutting down a lot of small White Ash and 10-15" Scotch Pine.

I've got brush piles all over the place and they just keep getting bigger. Is there a safe way to burn these? I don't want to bring in big equipment if I can avoid it.

Thanks for any replies


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## Zackman1801 (Apr 7, 2009)

call up your local FD and get a burn permit first off, if your state requires it. You do not want them showing up and you not having a permit, you will be fined big time. Next is to find a rainy day, or a cold winter day that its snowing to burn, during these times its less likely for embers to spread and catch other things on fire. Make sure if you do burn that you also keep some type of water or other fire extinguishing equipment near by to ensure that if you do start something unintentionally on fire you can extinguish it quickly.


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## 2dogs (Apr 7, 2009)

Zackman1801 said:


> call up your local FD and get a burn permit first off, if your state requires it. You do not want them showing up and you not having a permit, you will be fined big time. Next is to find a rainy day, or a cold winter day that its snowing to burn, during these times its less likely for embers to spread and catch other things on fire. Make sure if you do burn that you also keep some type of water or other fire extinguishing equipment near by to ensure that if you do start something unintentionally on fire you can extinguish it quickly.



Yep! Well said, rep comin.

Secureland get yourself a 5 gallon back pump. You may never need it but if you do...


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## thejdman04 (Apr 7, 2009)

I agree wait for a rainy day push as much leaves brush as you can around the pile up, so you get down to black dirt wait till it isnt windy and burn it.


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## johncinco (Apr 7, 2009)

Hard to say how much you will have to get rid of on a couple acres, I did the cut and burn a couple times clearing off for feed plats. The last couple times I changed my mind and rented a chipper. I did all the clearing off first and had several piles of stuff ready for the chipper. Rented for a 1/2 day on Saturday and didnt have to have it back until Monday. I blew the chips back into the woods away from my clearing. No ash piles, scarred ground, potential for fire spreading after you went home for the day (which did happen to me once) I made multiple smaller piles, made it easier to pull the branches out to feed into the chipper rather than one huge pile. To me it was a much better end result and effort than burning over multiple days. Cost me about $200 for the rental. If I could find a chipper to mount to the back of my tractor 3 point I would buy one.


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## BC_Logger (Apr 7, 2009)

Chipp in the summer and burn in the winter thats what i do


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## 380LGR (Apr 7, 2009)

I would chip everything because when you burn you are stuck there for days babysitting burn piles.


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## Mike Van (Apr 8, 2009)

Your sig doesn't say where in the northeast you are? In Ct., you need a permit. Towns with a pop. under 5000 can burn, over that can't. You can NOT burn here on a rainy day, your permit will say that. It states "clear to partly cloudy with wind not over 20 mph." It's not about safe, it's about the smoke, in the rain, it doesn't go away. The day after a good rain is what I try for. Your permit is good for a month, but on the days you want to. you have to call in the morning & see if it's o.k. [too dry will be a big no]


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## Ironmart (Apr 8, 2009)

*Chip it up...*

Definitely chip. Like the previous poster said, burning is a babysitting effort, whereas a decent size chipper will handle a lot of material in a single day. Tons and tons of wood slash can go through a small 19" towable Trelan or Rayco or any comparable chipper. Plus burning is just bad for the environment, period. 

Jesse



www.ironmart.com


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## hammerlogging (Apr 8, 2009)

depending on your schedule, buring is not that big of a deal. And its not like babysitting, if conditions are decent. Hot fires will significantly alter (adversely) the productivity of the soil on that spot, so adjust or plan accordingly. Anf call the law... C.Y.A.

Ironmart, the carbon cycle. Carbon in carbon out. Burning wood is a lot simpler and shorter system than taking fossil fuels from 2 million feet below the ground in permanent storage and burning it in your chipper. That, in our time frame, is all carbon out. 

Just pointing it out. I'm a petrol sinner as much as anyone.


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## secureland (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks for all the helpful responses,
I'm in the northeast and it's wet here now. I've burned in the past and called the fire chief to let him know (no permit required). I'll be perfectly direct, I get nervous whenever I burn. Even if it's wet out it's hard for me not to worry about some ember having set onto the perfect dry leaf that's just out of sight. Am I out of line for worrying like this? 
The chipper is cost prohibitive and heavy equipment is a concern because I am converting this area to garden and want to keep the soil in good condition. If I don't burn it will just be a lot of brush piles and maybe someday rent a chipper.


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## ak4195 (Apr 9, 2009)

Id vote for winter burn if it can wait,call it a family or neighborhood bonfire.I do one on winter solstice almost ever yr,-10 degs this yr.Dug a large area out in the snow for 7-10 foldup chairs,(berm up the snow,reflects heat/blocks wind)steaks n ahi on the grill(eat fast its coolin QUICK!).Salad and salad dressing froze as did the homemade wine,table was to far away from the fire.Beer slushies anyone?

ak4195


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## Sprig (Apr 9, 2009)

Being a sort of regular-type guy I like smoke & fire, big fire.... smoke, tits, steaks, beerz, all the fun stuff blah blah blah.
Really though, if ya can swing it, chipping is probably your best bet if you wish to add to the soil/bio-mass. Though burning is certainly fun, it wastes a lot of nutrients that could otherwise be creating soil for/around your cleared area. Chips can help with path making and plant control too. There is of course fire concerns, ie. having too much slash/dry mulch around to be safe, so you should sort of balance the idea. 
Just my unworthy 0.02$ worth. 



Serge


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## ShoerFast (Apr 9, 2009)

Brush piles are also good for wildlife, pheasants, ducks and sometimes geese will nest in them. They offer rabbits and squirrels a chance from predators making wildlife viewing a little better. 

It seems that some plants like the nutrients of a decomposed brush pile as well or better as the ashes. 

Just another $0.03 cents worth.


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## slowp (Apr 9, 2009)

Nobody mentioned covering the piles? You can put some plastic on them after they've dried out, Fall is a good time, to keep a core area dry. Then wait for winter--snow if you have it. Get the pile cooking in that dry spot, and then, with what we call "chunking" (going back and pushing the outside edges in as it burns) you'll get a good burn. Got fuel?


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## Cowboy Billy (Apr 9, 2009)

Having a leaf blower to blow air on a fire really help burn wet wood. Also as said earlier the heat from the burning will hurt the soil. So make one burning area and use that. You can use a strap or chain pile the brush on it wrap it around the pile when done and drag it with a fourwheeler or tractor to the burn area.

I made a water hole and had a fire hose pump and hose to keep my fire under control. 

Here's a link to one big brush pile I burnt 

http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30837

Billy


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## RPM (Apr 9, 2009)

A tiger torch with 50' of line and a 20lb bottle of propane is the ticket for getting a pile going. I do alot of slash piles in the fall (logging debris) and we often put the propane bottles on quads (with 100' of hose) - works slick, especialy when things are just a little damp.

The attached photos are from 2007, mostly beetle killed Lodgepole and no market for dry checked timber....no pulp, no post and rail and not sawlog quality. Fun to light up though....


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## secureland (Apr 9, 2009)

RPM said:


> A tiger torch with 50' of line and a 20lb bottle of propane is the ticket for getting a pile going. I do alot of slash piles in the fall (logging debris) and we often put the propane bottles on quads (with 100' of hose) - works slick, especialy when things are just a little damp.
> 
> The attached photos are from 2007, mostly beetle killed Lodgepole and no market for dry checked timber....no pulp, no post and rail and not sawlog quality. Fun to light up though....




Holy Sh..t! Are the kabobs done yet?


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## RPM (Apr 9, 2009)

secureland said:


> Holy Sh..t! Are the kabobs done yet?



Yah....the radiant heat that is thrown off those piles is pretty wicked. Nothing but a big black smudge the next morning.


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## willt1981 (Apr 14, 2009)

i feel like theres alot of worry here over something that isnt a big deal. at least where i am its virtually impossible to start any sort of wildfire in normal conditions (if it hasnt rained in three weeks and the wind is blowing at fifty i might wait a day). ive had piles burn for weeks when i was burning large stuff that wasnt good for firewood or timber (buckeye, crooked pine). just go back once a day with the tractor and push it together. no babysitting needed. no permits needed. as one poster said chipping just adds more carbon to what youd release burning anyway. and im not sure why burning hurts the soil. in the last five years ive cleared about thirty acres for pasture and burned all the brush. five years later you can still see where the fires were becasue the grass is so much GREENER. keep in mind our soil is virtually devoid of phosphate so that could be where the boost comes from. i guess if youre uncomfortable dont do it but to me it just seems like the common sense way to get rid of unwanted material.


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## Zackman1801 (Apr 15, 2009)

around here atleast for the moment the fire danger is extremely high. Just the other day someone was burning brush caught the woods on fire and destroyed two nice campers.


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## mercer_me (Apr 15, 2009)

Just wait for a rainy day and then torch it, just have some shovels and rakes around if it get sout of hand.


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## HorseShoeInFork (Apr 17, 2009)

johncinco said:


> The last couple times I changed my mind and rented a chipper. I did all the clearing off first and had several piles of stuff ready for the chipper. Rented for a 1/2 day on Saturday and didnt have to have it back until Monday. Cost me about $200 for the rental.


Just remember if you rent equipment over the weekend, most charge based on an 8hr machine run time. I know a fella (no not me) who thought he would rent a backhoe over the weekend. They dropped it off noon Friday and he spent two days trying to figure out how to run Case controls and barely shut it off to eat, sleep, and whiz. Called them up Monday A.M. said pick er' up. He almost had a small child when he saw the charge next month on his credit card. Could have hired an actual operator w/backhoe for 1/4 of his "next time I'll leave it to the professionals" backhoe play day and equipment rental lesson.


mercer_me said:


> Just wait for a rainy day and then torch it, just have some shovels and rakes around if it get sout of hand.


Be sure to wait until the rain actually begins to fall. My neighbor who is a retired FD chief decided to start a large brush fire before a storm hit. Only problem was the big black rain clouds stopped about 1 mile away and all we got here were 65mph winds. Rained 2"+ got the creeks up, cooled off 30 degrees, but not a drop here. He burned about 30 acres before it was contained. Nearly killed a fireman who was riding in the back of a brush truck when they dropped off in a big hole.


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## 2dogs (Apr 21, 2009)

*The Summit Fire of May 2008*

This was the afternoon lead story in our "local" fish wrapper. The charges against the contractor mean up to 7 years in prison if convicted. The lawyers will soon rush in to bayonet the wounded and the civil cases will continue for years. Everyone involved is sueing everyone else. If the fire ran uphill then the guy at the top of the hill sues every land owner and accupant below him. And so it goes.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_12191513

Another account.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12192433?source=rss


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## slowp (Apr 22, 2009)

Many years ago, we torched off piles like RPM's. We foolishly brought out potatoes and hotdogs. You couldn't get near enough to cook them. I think we found a pile that had burned down enough so we could cook the hotdogs by standing backwards to the pile. It was too hot on the face.


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## madhatte (Apr 24, 2009)

We're not really allowed to burn piles any more. Funny thing is it has more to do with air quality than anything else. So, we have this five-year backlog of piled material in different sales that we can't do anything with, and Bigwigs crawling up our keisters demanding we do something about them. What to do? Imagine our surprise when we find that there is a market for hogfuel. We sell a couple of experimental units for $1 per unit (i.e. "get the junk out and it's yours for free"), and all of a sudden tub grinders are the new iPods. 

Problem? Soil compaction and slope degradation. Sure, the piles go away, but now the soil is scraped or crushed to parent material. 

Solution? Dunno, yet. I think we're on the right track, but we definitely need to figure out how to do this without creating any new problems.


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## hokiewheeler (May 3, 2009)

Burning is agronomically speaking, the best way to go. You take care of most of the noxious weed seeds this way. If you really want to burn the stuff well, get an excavator, dig pits and push in the brush. Then dig some trenches and lay pipe in the trench connected to a blower. Light the piles, turn on the air, and watch the material disappear. You'll want to stockpile the soil so you can level off the hole afterwards. This method works well. If you live in an area that prevents burning you'll have to chip. You really need to haul the chips if you expect to farm and get decent yields. Rotting wood robs the soil of plant available nutrients because they get all tied up in wood rotting bacteria. After the wood breaks down though, you are good to go. This takes 2 to 3 years. If you can wait that long, chip it all and blow it on the ground. Hopefully you aren't dealing with any federal farm programs and the .gov doesn't have to decide if you have wet woods or not. If you deal with any FSA programs, you need to get NRCS out prior to any work to see if you are permitted to even clear the woods. Often times, you are not. If you aren't, you need to decide if the additional production negates the loss of federal farm payments. It might or might not depending on commodity prices at the time. Lately it has been, and farmers have been dropping out of programs left and right. You will be barred for life though, and commodities probably won't remain high. Anyone who buys the land will be held to remediation standards to be eligible. Myself, I'm not in the programs so it doesn't matter. But I have worked for the man so I have seen it first hand. My land, I would cut and haul as much of the debris as possible after mowing the underbrush. Then grind the stumps, then fertilize with a high N fertilizer. Next year, plant. If you work during dry soil conditions, you will minimize compaction. Use tracked machinery where possible. If the soil is wet enough to stick to tracks or tires, you are compacting it to economically damaging levels. The soil should crumble in the hand and not ball up or smear. That is dry enough.


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## funky sawman (May 4, 2009)

Ironmart said:


> Definitely chip. Like the previous poster said, burning is a babysitting effort, whereas a decent size chipper will handle a lot of material in a single day. Tons and tons of wood slash can go through a small 19" towable Trelan or Rayco or any comparable chipper. Plus burning is just bad for the environment, period.
> 
> Jesse
> 
> ...



Burning is not bad for the enviroment, Mother nature has been burning for millions of years. SO wise guy, are you going to tell mother nature she has been doing wrong????????????:angry2:


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## mercer_me (May 4, 2009)

Ironmart said:


> Definitely chip. Like the previous poster said, burning is a babysitting effort, whereas a decent size chipper will handle a lot of material in a single day. Tons and tons of wood slash can go through a small 19" towable Trelan or Rayco or any comparable chipper. Plus burning is just bad for the environment, period.



:bang: :angry2: 



funky sawman said:


> Burning is not bad for the enviroment, Mother nature has been burning for millions of years. SO wise guy, are you going to tell mother nature she has been doing wrong????????????:angry2:



:agree2:

Why do you think people burn feilds? They burn them to help the soil. Burning doesn't hurt the enviernment at all.


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## Bushler (May 4, 2009)

I don't agree that burning hurts the soil. I like to plant back in the old burn sites and always noticed how the trees that are planted in the burn sites outperform the ones adjacent. They'll be a darker green color to.

The above applies to connifer planted back on orford siltly clay soil in western oregon.


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## Brushwacker (May 5, 2009)

slowp said:


> Nobody mentioned covering the piles? You can put some plastic on them after they've dried out, Fall is a good time, to keep a core area dry. Then wait for winter--snow if you have it. Get the pile cooking in that dry spot, and then, with what we call "chunking" (going back and pushing the outside edges in as it burns) you'll get a good burn. Got fuel?



Pretty much what I do. Cover a spot mabe 4'X8' or so and let it get bone dry , then burn it in rainy weather or snow. The dry spot gets hot enough to burn the wet wood .


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## Bushler (May 5, 2009)

I quit covering piles after I got the grapple machiine for shovel logging. Now, after I build my piles so the outer branches sort of tee pee the water, it sheds off the inner part of the pile which stays pretty dry, dry enough to light with a quart of diesel and a match, usually.

I like doing it like that because the tee pee outer 'shell' makes the fire draw great for a well ventilated nearly smokeless fire, that will burn 90% unatended. I generally only haveto re-pile once after the initial burn, to finish off the root wads and heavy long butts.

Scarifying with a shovel is almost fun. I've done it with cats, loaders and even by hand. Those methods suck. I nearly lost an old 7U D-4 burning slash. I was on top of the pile pshing fresh matterial when I threw a track and had to winch myself off the pile....dragging burning brush with me....and the old 4 (Flintstone) had a bit of oily greasy residue (actually lots of residue) in the pan and under the winch. It was an anxious 45 minutes.

We are still allowed to burn slash, but its regulated and we have to have a smoke managment plan. Carefull measurements are taken of the piles and we have to report what per cent burnt, etc.

I don't like doing it, but there's no reasonable alternative.


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## mtfallsmikey (May 5, 2009)

I burn small piles of brush, mainly in winter...nothing like 3-4 pallets at the bottom of the pile to kick things off....and I burn in my garden area, the potash is really good for my acidic soil.


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## RPM (May 5, 2009)

Bushler said:


> I don't agree that burning hurts the soil. I like to plant back in the old burn sites and always noticed how the trees that are planted in the burn sites outperform the ones adjacent. They'll be a darker green color to.
> 
> The above applies to connifer planted back on orford siltly clay soil in western oregon.



I agree....log it and burn!


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## secureland (May 16, 2009)

I like the covering idea for these piles. I will wait until winter to burn.
Thanks for the help.


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