# Winches...who has used a Lewis or portable capstan?



## TreeandLand

I'm thinking of investing in a winch for skidding logs. I have a project in mind....I did view clearing on a hillside that brought down a lot of nice oak trees. The homeowner would like them for firewood if he could get his hands on them....but they're 350 feet down a hillside. I know I'll find many more uses for a winch after this too. Does anyone have reviews of the performance of a Lewis winch powered by a big chainsaw, or the portable capstan winch made by Portable Winch? The first uses cable, the other uses 1/2 rope.


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## jomoco

TreeandLand said:


> I'm thinking of investing in a winch for skidding logs. I have a project in mind....I did view clearing on a hillside that brought down a lot of nice oak trees. The homeowner would like them for firewood if he could get his hands on them....but they're 350 feet down a hillside. I know I'll find many more uses for a winch after this too. Does anyone have reviews of the performance of a Lewis winch powered by a big chainsaw, or the portable capstan winch made by Portable Winch? The first uses cable, the other uses 1/2 rope.



Bad idea T&L, I've run a 12K lb warner electric winch off the back of my truck for almost 20 years, and I have to use a pulley and compound line to pull sizable logs up a slope. And my winch's capstan will only hold 120 feet of 5/16ths cable! Meaning with a compound line I can reach out 60 feet.

Now a hydraulic winch on a skidder can get the job done, but not at 300 feet away without multiple lines being switched out in sequence.

There are gas powered winches on portable skids around as well, but they cost lots of mullah, 5-10K.

If there are big trees at the top of the ridge? A pulley redirect might work for you dirt cheap?

jomoco


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## AT sawyer

*Lewis Winch*

I've had some experience with a Lewis winch, and their portability allows you to set up most anywhere. I wouldn't use anything less than an 036 for a powerhead, and be sure to get the direct-drive sprocket adapter. Mounting the winch to your saw can be tricky, as there isn't much room to get a wrench on your saw nuts (I bought a cheap box-end wrench and beat on it with a sledge hammer until I'd removed the factory offset angle).

The wire rope on a LEWIS is not under tension when you unspool it. The spool will run free like an old casting rod and give you a bird's nest in a heartbeat. When I've used it alone, I keep one hand on the spool and peel off wire while it's under a little tension. New wire will want to kink, especially the small diameter stuff that comes with the winch, so be careful of that when you've got a lot of wire out. When you bring it in, you'll find that the rollers on the fairlead are too close together and tend to bunch the wire in the middle. Make a spooler to guide the wire. 

Get a couple of good steel stakes, as they make easy portable anchors, and a snatch block to redirect.

If all this sounds like you need to bring a buddy along for the extra set of hands, that would be a good idea.

Here are some YouTube videos I did for my trail crew when I first got my winch. I learned more about it after I made the videos, but they at least explain my "new guy" experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nulOLxehBpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OS31kUOl9w


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## Bearcreek

How big of logs are you talking about?


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## lumberjack333

I used a simple redirect and rope to the chev method to clear a lakeside cottage lot out, worked really well. Placed the block about 10ft up a big ol' birch tree and pulled some nice sized logs up the hill no problem. Processed it all at the top of the hill and loaded the truck from there, I'll post some pics in a minute.


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## lumberjack333

Heres a few pics of the setup, used 3/4 poly rope to save wear and tear on my good rigging lines, the stuff still looked brand new at the end of the day... I was very surprised really...















The is the pile of wood we'd amassed by the end of the day.


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## Bearcreek

That shows why I was asking what size logs. We did a job with a similar setup a while back. The logs that we were pulling up though were 24"-30" diameter. Had to cut them to about 3 or 4' for the tractor to be able to pull them up. We actually snapped a 5/8ths 3 strand sling at one point. Yellow poly rope like that would never have worked. I've never used one, so I can't say for certain, but I don't think a lewis winch would have worked either. They're ok for small logs and brush but not big stuff.


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## lumberjack333

Yeah I don't think anything we did was larger than 20" dia, but we moved some good lenghts of it, the smallest were 12 ft and the larger ones maybe 20ft. Sometimes it got hooked up on rocks and stumps, but the truck was able to pull it all without too much trouble... I think the key is elevating the block, if you can set it up so the pull anlge is slightly up and forward then it reduces probably more than half the drag on the log. 

The whole job was a cleanup operation, the home owner had asked some Hydro boys to come through and drop some trees.. He paid a good buck just to have them make a mess and walk away, they even had his service line disconnected for it so it was all cut at the base and drop em'. That was three years ago, I was able to clean that all up for a fraction of the price, and drop 4 more trees and take it all away... hopefully I'll get some return business out of him now. The area is just north of Huntsville, ON, cottage lake near a small village.. I'd like to establish myself in small communities like that and try and control a bunch of small areas like that... little off topic there but I get sidetracked easily haha.

:bang:


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## TreeandLand

Interesting to hear and see your experiences. I do have some doubts about the Lewis winch. But I might give it a shot anyway- when I do I'll leave a post to let you all know how it went. The situation at the house where the work will happen would make it difficult to pull rope with a truck, as the house is between the driveway and the logs in question.

The other possibility is a portable capstan winch. Here's a link http://www.portablewinch.com/en/ . Has anyone seen one in action?


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## Bearcreek

I have not seen one of those in action either, but again, it really depends on the size of the logs you're pulling. In my case, something that is designed to use 1/2" line is almost certain not to work for pulling logs up a hill because im usually handling logs that are to big for 1/2" line. If the logs you're looking at are small, say no more than 18"x8' and there's not too many of them, then it might be an efficient method for you.


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## Koa Man

I have owned and used both a Lewis and a Simpson capstan winch to skid brush and logs uphill. The Simpson is much much better. The distance is only limited by the length of your rope. I have 200 ft. for mine. 

The do not recommend the Lewis. It is much heavier, you have limited length, you lose power as the cable winds around the reel, and it is easy to get the cable tangled up, not to mention the wire frays and be like having needles here and there. A rope capstan winch has none of those problems.


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## JeffL

I used a 1/2" diameter length of arborplex, tied to the ball hitch of a chevy 2500 with a bowline on a bight to pull logs up a hill, worked like a charm.  Just need a good line of pull and a long driveway, saved having to buck everything to dinky pieces and lug them up the slope by hand, would have taken days as opposed to hours. Pulled a couple good 24"-28" diameter pieces of red oak up a nearly 30* slope, just needed to cut everything down to 5-6' lengths and pull them up sideways to avoid some of the stumps on the hill.


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## Norwayclimber

I have a Capstan portable and Im not really impressed with it. We usually prefer using a tractor with a winch or a pickup. 

The Capstan is slow, and it works better on tradeshows than in real life (pulling logs along a lawn, compared to in the terrain  )


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## Koa Man

Norwayclimber said:


> I have a Capstan portable and Im not really impressed with it. We usually prefer using a tractor with a winch or a pickup.
> 
> The Capstan is slow, and it works better on tradeshows than in real life (pulling logs along a lawn, compared to in the terrain  )



What if you can't get a pickup or tractor there? The capstan winch is still a lot faster than carrying the brush or log uphill. I use a plastic wheelbarrow tray to put the logs or brush on and pull the tray with the winch. It slides much better.


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## Norwayclimber

It does certaily have its times when it comes in handy. But I still think it isn't the tool you would want to be using if you're clearing a larger area, and pulling over longer distances. You'll be spending a lot time, and gonna have to cut the trees in smaller parts. So the homeowner might end up with some nice expencive firewood.


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## Treecutr

Koa Man. We have used truck bed liners to haul brush/logs out instead of carrying it. Works great, especially on grass.


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## Bearcreek

Norwayclimber said:


> It does certaily have its times when it comes in handy. But I still think it isn't the tool you would want to be using if you're clearing a larger area, and pulling over longer distances. You'll be spending a lot time, and gonna have to cut the trees in smaller parts. So the homeowner might end up with some nice expencive firewood.



:agree2: It would be cheaper for them to just buy the wood cut and split already. At least it would if I was bidding the job. How longs it gonna take to haul a cord worth of wood up a hill like that with a capstan winch? I'd do it if somebody wanted me to but i'd make sure they realize they'd be better off just buying the wood.


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## TreeandLand

I agree...it would be cheaper for them to buy firewood. But they want the trees moved for the sake of making their property neater. I will caution them about the cost of the project vs. the price of firewood.



Bearcreek said:


> :agree2: It would be cheaper for them to just buy the wood cut and split already. At least it would if I was bidding the job. How longs it gonna take to haul a cord worth of wood up a hill like that with a capstan winch? I'd do it if somebody wanted me to but i'd make sure they realize they'd be better off just buying the wood.


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## TreeandLand

*wheelbarrow tray*

Good idea to use a wheelbarrow tray- I'll try that. I've also heard of using plastic skidding cones on the front of the logs to deflect obstacles. Have you tried that?



Koa Man said:


> What if you can't get a pickup or tractor there? The capstan winch is still a lot faster than carrying the brush or log uphill. I use a plastic wheelbarrow tray to put the logs or brush on and pull the tray with the winch. It slides much better.


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## Koa Man

Never tried the cones. We usually cut wood small enough for guys to load. In the rare case we have a log worth milling, we will try and get as big a piece as possible to the street and load it with my Gehl.


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## IllinoisJim

*winches, etc...*

I have a similar situation in that I have some very steep woods to clean up and haul out some wood which will become firewood. Erosion is a potential problem and finished look is important so just yarding them up the hills is not preferred. Some is down the hill and across a creek. The woods are fairly thick and distances are up to about 250' which also make winching harder/slower. 

My plan is to cut the wood into about 200 lb (max) lengths. Then put up a stationary cable between a large tree at the bottom and top. A pulley carriage will run on the cable and a second lighter cable will run to the top. At the top I will use a fairly high speed winch to bring up the blocks. The blocks will be lifted off the ground when going up the cable. The small weights will let me use fairly light cable - I am thinking 1/4" for the static line and 3/16 for the winch line. I will need someone at the top and bottom. There needs to be considerable slack in the main cable to keep the tension from exceeding the working load rating.

Here is a somewhat similar setup (but using VERY light cable):
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/deaton0601.html 

I need to do this over a wide area. The light rigging makes it easy to move. 

I can also use this to move other things up or down hills.


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## TreeandLand

*erosion*



IllinoisJim said:


> I have a similar situation in that I have some very steep woods to clean up and haul out some wood which will become firewood. Erosion is a potential problem and finished look is important so just yarding them up the hills is not preferred. Some is down the hill and across a creek. The woods are fairly thick and distances are up to about 250' which also make winching harder/slower.
> 
> My plan is to cut the wood into about 200 lb (max) lengths. Then put up a stationary cable between a large tree at the bottom and top. A pulley carriage will run on the cable and a second lighter cable will run to the top. At the top I will use a fairly high speed winch to bring up the blocks. The blocks will be lifted off the ground when going up the cable. The small weights will let me use fairly light cable - I am thinking 1/4" for the static line and 3/16 for the winch line. I will need someone at the top and bottom. There needs to be considerable slack in the main cable to keep the tension from exceeding the working load rating.
> 
> Here is a somewhat similar setup (but using VERY light cable):
> http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/deaton0601.html
> 
> I need to do this over a wide area. The light rigging makes it easy to move.
> 
> I can also use this to move other things up or down hills.



Good point about erosion. In my case I could put a block high enough in a tree as a redirect, and that will lift the nose of the log up enough so it won't be plowing up the ground. If you skid logs when the ground is frozen I think they will slide along the snowpack and even if there isn't much snow they shouldn't dig up the ground as much. You could do that when you don't want to take time to set up the skyline that you described.


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## Tree Machine

I don't know what to say. Slow, very, very slow, even with a 394XP. Saw screams in monotone. You have to stand there with your finger on the saw's trigger or configure a clamp or wire to hold the trigger down while you get out of way of potential snapback in the unlikely case something would let loose. Oh, the tension on the rope's tail needs to be pulled with constant and consistent tension so the rope won't slip around the capstan (this is a two handed operation). Add those two hands to the other one needing to do the trigger work=two guys waiting and waiting and waiting.

Make sure all protruding stubs are cut off the log so they don't drag in the earth or catch on roots, other trees. etc. Use something on the bottom side of the front of the log so it doesn't plow.

Have radios between the saw guy(s)/rope puller and the guy babysitting the log because you may not be able to hear each other over the saw screaming.

What else, oh, when the saw powerhead is still screaming and the capstan all of a sudden quits turning, you may think you've blown gears or something but most likely it's just the shear pin giving way so you don't fry the gears. This is a (relatively) cheap fix, but not one that you can do yourself. It needs to be sent back to the factory to have that done. 

There are some positives. It doesn't take up much room on a garage shelf.


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## Tree Machine

*keeping it simple*

If you're just getting firewood up the hill (not an entire log), let me share something that worked remarkably well.

Set a pully on a sling anchored to a tree up the hill. I suggest the pulley be a Petzl ProTraxion or some similar cammed pulley (Ideally a cammed pulley, that way you can rest) or a safety prussik to catch reverse travel. Cut your pieces to three or two or one firewood lengths each, depending on how heavy. Find yourself a dolly or cart or small wagon, etc. If you have a steerable cart, point the back end going uphill so the guy tending cart can rear-steer.

The guy up top attaches himself to the rope as a counterweight. He's pulling downhill as the cart guy is tending / pushing uphill. You will meet at the halfway point at which time you slap each other a high five knowing you've solved the problem with a simple approach that costs nothing, sets up and breaks down fast and utilizes what you already probably have in your kit.


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## Koa Man

My Stihl 034 Super, which I use on the Simpson capstan will lock the throttle at high speed without the use of any auxiliary device. I also use 3 strand rope, which is the recommended rope to use per the manufacturer. It gives a much better grip. I haven't had any problems and moving the brush and logs uphill at around 40-50 fpm is still a lot better than dragging or carrying it.

We have moved huge piles of brush uphill in the course of a day with 3 guys and the winch and not be exhausted. I have also moved much much smaller amounts of brush with 3 guys uphill and no winch and be totally beat by the time we were done.

Any winch is not going to be very fast, but it sure saves a lot of labor.


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## Tree Machine

*I could find much use in this winch*

It just takes the right capstan winch to be efficient and practical and profitable and user-friendly and portable and powerful and versatile and I could go on. A tool that pays it's rent, so to speak.



arborman3 said:


> Try this link, www.portablewinch.com. The winch is powered by a honda 4-stroke and is quite powerful. We have ours over two years now and it is a big time saver. We've used it to drag large piles of brush/limbs up steep, rocky snow covered slopes; to skid logs and to get bogged down trucks back on the road.
> 
> We had one job where a large white pine was wind thrown and crushed a lakeside dock. We couldn't get trucks, chippers,etc. to the blow down so we cut it into 15' lengths, with limbs attached, and winched it across a cove to where we had our equipment and could deal with it.
> 
> When we purchased the winch we also purchased the optional nose cone The cone fits over the end of a log or brush pile and helps the log/brush navigate over and around stumps and rocks. The cone also helps prevent whatever you're winching from digging into soft ground.
> 
> The winch has enabled us to be more competitive when pricing tough jobs.



A-3, thanks for posting that link. 

There is also a write-up on this Honda-powered rope winch in the January, 2010 
_Tree Care Industry_ magazine in the "*Cutting Edge - Products*" section. It is on page 18.


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## Tree Machine

Hello Koa Man. Good seeing you.


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## TimberMcPherson

Do a seach for chainsaw winches, there should be a half dozen threads about it at least.


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## Tree Machine

Yaaaa, I just redirected one to here. 

That's my general opinion, Norway and in this case my opinion holds no depth at all. I've had mine ten years and have used it maybe ten times.


However, that Honda..... i read on it that it has a two-stage speed thing going. I would think one of these and a log arch would be the dynamic duo in a terrain-challenged situation. 


I have been to areas like where Timber McPherson and Koa Man, Gads! Your terrain and obstacles. I don't know how you could survive doing tree care without some sort of winch system in the kit. 

For me, everything around me is flat. I'm spoiled rotten with that luxury. I hardly ever have a use for any winch. Well, could used one here:






Since then I've bought a 12V capstan winch, surplus gear from battleship parts
(I am not kidding you)
but I have yet to mount it on the back of the chipper because I would have to remove the regular cable winch back there, which I also never use.

I'm planning to send it to Bandit if I ever order a new 6" chipper.


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## Bearcreek

What're we lookin at here?


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## Tree Machine

My screwup is what we're looking at. A situation where a powered capstan winch would have probably gotten me out of here.

Instead, I had to call my wife to yank me out, forward, and the groundguy's vehicle on the 5:1 attached to the frame.


It would have paid itself off in avoiding the hassle factor and embarassment when you're wife just won't quit with it afterwards.


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## pdqdl

I have both a capstan winch, and a lewis winch. So I can advise you on both.

The Lewis winch is useless, unless they have changed their design. It has great pulling power, but *it does not have a reverse gear*. so you pull a heavy load, the line is still loaded tight, then you cannot detach from it! Who uses a winch on a load that doesn't need to be released at the end of a pull? Mine sits unused in the back room. Anybody want to buy it from me?

The capstan rope winch does everything it claims to do: pull a rope with relatively slow speed and low horsepower. Don't think it will replace a 200hp truck on the end of a rope. If you consider it to be a huge improvement on a Maasdam Powr puller (rope hoist), you will probably put it in the right place.

I use ours to haul logs and brush up (or down) hills, and it is pretty good at pulling trees over too. Consider using a pulley on the end of a rope as a re-direct, thrown over a high branch to help lift the logs off the ground. Using a towable log dolly will really improve the load capacity, too.

They work particularly well in situations where you have a long run up a hill and the traction is poor. 500-1000 lb logs come skidding up the hill. Slowly, but surely. Not any slower, however, than much more powerful winches attached to truck bumpers or other hydraulic equipment. The capstan feature allows instant release.

Operation is a bit tedious unless you invent a throttle lock for the chainsaw. Idling...no rope movement. 
Squeezing the trigger takes one hand, so you only have one hand left over to pull the capstan lead. 
Two hands free or a 2nd man=regular progress with the rope winch.

No three man crew can haul logs up a steep hill as quickly or easily as the winch and proper rigging can. Because the line pull is not so great, a cheap 3/8" or 7/16" twist rope is perfect for this machine, especially if you are using extra pulleys to gain mechanical advantage.

It will never outperform a tractor or truck pulling logs. Those who have commented that it is too slow were not using it where it is well suited for the job. Use the right machine for each job.

I use a maasdam rope winch only when I cannot tolerate the risk of engine failure, where greater speed is not needed, or where the load must be held securely and there is no need for a rapid release.


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## Bearcreek

Tree Machine said:


> My screwup is what we're looking at. A situation where a powered capstan winch would have probably gotten me out of here.
> 
> Instead, I had to call my wife to yank me out, forward, and the groundguy's vehicle on the 5:1 attached to the frame.
> 
> 
> It would have paid itself off in avoiding the hassle factor and embarassment when you're wife just won't quit with it afterwards.



I see now. I couldn't tell what was going on in your other pic. Thats quite a rig you got there. Is it a chip truck?


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## Tree Machine

Yes, like pdqxl says, the manual Maasadam rope puller is the ultimate in _slow_ power.

Like in the picture above, a Maasdam rope puller would do no good.

See, with a powered capstan, you tension the tail and it engages the pull. It doesn't matter whether you're standing 2 feet or 22 feet away, when you pull the tail, you engage tension.

That means I could be sitting behind the steering wheel of the truck, holding the rope, coordinating the steering/acceleration and pulling myself out of this near-tipover situation, alone and swiftly.


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## Tree Machine

Bearcreek said:


> Thats quite a rig you got there. Is it a chip truck?



'Tip' truck there in the picture.

Tool stowage also, you can see the large tool door partially open there on the drivers' side. Chips offload via powered conveyor.


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## dh1984

pdqdl said:


> I have both a capstan winch, and a lewis winch. So I can advise you on both.
> 
> The Lewis winch is useless, unless they have changed their design. It has great pulling power, but *it does not have a reverse gear*. so you pull a heavy load, the line is still loaded tight, then you cannot detach from it! Who uses a winch on a load that doesn't need to be released at the end of a pull? Mine sits unused in the back room. Anybody want to buy it from me?
> 
> The capstan rope winch does everything it claims to do: pull a rope with relatively slow speed and low horsepower. Don't think it will replace a 200hp truck on the end of a rope. If you consider it to be a huge improvement on a Maasdam Powr puller (rope hoist), you will probably put it in the right place.
> 
> I use ours to haul logs and brush up (or down) hills, and it is pretty good at pulling trees over too. Consider using a pulley on the end of a rope as a re-direct, thrown over a high branch to help lift the logs off the ground. Using a towable log dolly will really improve the load capacity, too.
> 
> They work particularly well in situations where you have a long run up a hill and the traction is poor. 500-1000 lb logs come skidding up the hill. Slowly, but surely. Not any slower, however, than much more powerful winches attached to truck bumpers or other hydraulic equipment. The capstan feature allows instant release.
> 
> Operation is a bit tedious unless you invent a throttle lock for the chainsaw. Idling...no rope movement.
> Squeezing the trigger takes one hand, so you only have one hand left over to pull the capstan lead.
> Two hands free or a 2nd man=regular progress with the rope winch.
> 
> No three man crew can haul logs up a steep hill as quickly or easily as the winch and proper rigging can. Because the line pull is not so great, a cheap 3/8" or 7/16" twist rope is perfect for this machine, especially if you are using extra pulleys to gain mechanical advantage.
> 
> It will never outperform a tractor or truck pulling logs. Those who have commented that it is too slow were not using it where it is well suited for the job. Use the right machine for each job.
> 
> I use a maasdam rope winch only when I cannot tolerate the risk of engine failure, where greater speed is not needed, or where the load must be held securely and there is no need for a rapid release.



yea how much would you want for it there bud i been looking for a winch to use around the farm


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## pdqdl

Ooops. I lied. I don't have a "Lewis" winch, I have a "Cobra" winch.

They seem to be very similar, and neither of them appears to have a reverse gear. 

http://www.lewiswinch.com/The_Lewis_Winch.html

The Cobra winch (made by the LEE WINCH CO.) does not seem to appear for sale anywhere on the internet, so I presume they went out of business. The phone numbers shown on the label don't work, either. I found a Craigs listing for one, it looks to be in a little better condition than mine.

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/1541804772.html

I'll sell mine for $250.00 plus shipping. It weighs about 40lbs. I haven't tested the Homelite XL powerhead yet, either. Like I said, I don't use it anymore. I'll give it credit, it appears to be well built, as it is deceptively heavy.


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## dh1984

ok i'll see what i can come up with


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## pdqdl

Lewis, I think you have a vested interest. I'm not knocking your product, but a load binder does not solve all problems.

The capstan rope winches are not without problems, either. I don't know why they don't add a self-tailing feature. It's not like that would add much to the cost of the unit, and it would provide a much greater ease of use.

BTW: how come Lewis winch is not offered with a dyneema line? It would trim a nice chunk of weight off the device, and would be far less inclined to kink and birds-nest.


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## Wilson_tree

I have a capstan winch mounted on an old saw with throttle lock, a 100 foot & 200 ft rope, and a skid cone for the log. I can operate the winch by myself, move it anywhere, and move big loads. You just can't do it fast and it takes a lot of effort. It is a great tool for specific jobs, and I am very glad I have it when I need it. But I wouldn't want to skid multiple logs over 100 yards unless they were really valuable and I couldn't think of another way to get them. I use it a lot to bunch logs for the tractor. I winch logs out of sensitive areas or I get the log out of a tight spot without bumping valuable trees and I leave it for the tractor to hook up to as soon as I can.


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