# How many knots do you really need to know?



## chevybob (Aug 24, 2014)

People make a big deal about knowing ever knot under the sun and blah blah blah but, how many knots do you really use in a work environment? I use a figure 8, bowline, running bowline, fishermens knot, and a timber hitch. I understand every knot has it's purpose and place but, I really don't see any reason to need any other knots


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## TreeAce (Aug 24, 2014)

I think a clove hitch/mid line clove hitch belongs in there.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 24, 2014)

Don't forget the Dragon Bowline!!!


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## Overwatch (Aug 24, 2014)

Trucker's hitch for setting up quick mechanical advantage and tying down loads is one that I find indispensable.


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## pro94lt (Aug 24, 2014)

If only one its the running bowline. I've figured out the industry pushes climbing gadgets harder than anything I've ever seen. From what I can see in the real world of the tree industry most climbers have never even used a climbing rope all flip lines spikes and old echos. I attended a climbing course with a bunch of burned up wore out hired hand climbers who'd laid down more wood on spikes than most on here. They were scared of ropes... couldn't walk normal their knees n hips were shot from spikes all needed a drink by noon... but could lay the wood down on nasty removals


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## miko0618 (Aug 24, 2014)

The butterfly is a good one for a mid line knot. I'll agree that you may only use a couple a day but i think its important to know several. The more options you have, the easier your life can be.


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## Del_ (Aug 24, 2014)

In addition to what's been mentioned: Anchor hitch, Double sheet bend, VT, double fisherman's knot, Stilson hitch, Zepplin bend, and prussic hitch


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## steegpuzh (Aug 24, 2014)

I think a clove hitch/mid line clove hitch belongs in there.


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 25, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> If only one its the running bowline. I've figured out the industry pushes climbing gadgets harder than anything I've ever seen. From what I can see in the real world of the tree industry most climbers have never even used a climbing rope all flip lines spikes and old echos. I attended a climbing course with a bunch of burned up wore out hired hand climbers who'd laid down more wood on spikes than most on here. They were scared of ropes... couldn't walk normal their knees n hips were shot from spikes all needed a drink by noon... but could lay the wood down on nasty removals



Time to wake up to an evolving industry.


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## pdqdl (Aug 25, 2014)

I find it rather remarkable that a knot topic in a climbers forum doesn't seem to mention any of the many variations of the taut line hitch. Ok, one passing mention of the Valdotain tresse; kudo's to Del, but really? 

How about two half hitches, or any mention of the many slipped hitches that I consider essential. Square knot is essential, so is the simple sheet bend. (I have no idea why you would need to double one). 

Cow hitch (or Lark's head hitch) is so common and simple, you guys may not have even thought of it as a knot. I'll bet all of you are using it regularly on any eye-spliced ropes or slings. 

I nearly always put a marl in front of my timber hitch; they are also used by old-school climbers to bind a rope to a somewhat vertical spar when lowering logs without a pulley.


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## miko0618 (Aug 25, 2014)

There was never a request for a list of knots.


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## derwoodii (Aug 25, 2014)

i keep a basic palate of knots after 30 years each one knows its place and my hand ties them before i had time to think too much about it
i have few personal twists for certain needs & end splicing of eyes can still be done but i'd say been awhile since needed

Most frustrating or amazing is the proper tieing of 2 ropes together still eludes me, i surly need to find a method that works & practice this


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## 046 (Aug 25, 2014)

chevybob said:


> People make a big deal about knowing ever knot under the sun and blah blah blah but, how many knots do you really use in a work environment? I use a figure 8, bowline, running bowline, fishermens knot, and a timber hitch. I understand every knot has it's purpose and place but, I really don't see any reason to need any other knots



it's not how many knots you know but how well you know those knots!
which knots we need is personal .. most everyone has a slightly different list, but the base knot list are the same.

knots shown in Climber's Companion should be required reading.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 25, 2014)

derwoodii said:


> i keep a basic palate of knots after 30 years each one knows its place and my hand ties them before i had time to think too much about it
> i have few personal twists for certain needs & end splicing of eyes can still be done but i'd say been awhile since needed
> 
> Most frustrating or amazing is the proper tieing of 2 ropes together still eludes me, i surly need to find a method that works & practice this




For that, I always teach my groundies a girth hitch on a bight. Easy for them, easy for me once it's up. I always remind them whatever they tie, I have to untie under load once I've hauled it up. For climbers, the most important thing to learn to UNTIE is the newb groundie tangle... i.e. "let's just keep throwing half-hitches on until we feel good, and let the climber figure it out" knot.


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## EcoTreeCo (Aug 25, 2014)

It's not how many you know. It knowing which ones work in what situations. I probably know twenty knots. I only use four or five daily.


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## pro94lt (Aug 25, 2014)

BC WetCoast said:


> Time to wake up to an evolving industry.


Please elaborate


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## pro94lt (Aug 25, 2014)

Oh yes they need to


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## Zale (Aug 25, 2014)

If you're going old school, four. Bowline, running bowline, clove hitch and tautline.
If you're going new school, refer to all knots mentioned above.


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 25, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> Please elaborate



To say that in the 'real world' people only use spurs and fliplines is ridiculous. _From what I can see in the real world of the tree industry most climbers have never even used a climbing rope all flip lines spikes and old echos.
_
From what I see in my area, about 70-80% of the climbing is spurless. As the inventory of large trees requiring removal reduces due to increased ubanization and density, the amount of required spur climbing will also reduce. 

In addition, the knowledge of the industry is evolving. For the most part, the use of spurs for pruning and the practice of topping has been curtailed except for the worst of the hacks.


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## TreeAce (Aug 25, 2014)

Zale said:


> If you're going old school, four. Bowline, running bowline, clove hitch and tautline.
> If you're going new school, refer to all knots mentioned above.


throw a couple of half hitches in and I can honestly say that i have done a heck of lot of tree work with those knots. i can accomplish almost any tree job in north central ohio with those knots alone. I havnt used a taughtline in a long time though. But I could if need be.


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## Zale (Aug 25, 2014)

You can do a lot of tree work with just those knots but expanding one's horizons is a good thing. I'll have to look up these half hitches you're talking about.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 25, 2014)

I have never made a big deal about knowing a lot of knots, but am always open to learn a new one or a different way of tying an old one.
Having spent a little time in Uncle Sam's canoe club I learned a lot of knots and many have been used climbing and in tree work. The taunt line was one learned and used in my Navy days but I have never used it for climbing. It just didn't work well for situations where a knot needed to release and grab multiple times.


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## Robin Wood (Aug 26, 2014)

Bowline/Running Bowline, Kleimheist/Prussik/Blakes hitch, taut line, truckies hitch(add more to gain leverage), figure 8 stopper knot, clove hitch

Should be able to survive most things that gets thrown on you with these


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## old CB (Aug 27, 2014)

Bowline, running bowline, timber hitch, clove hitch, and cat's paw (for grabbing a bight w/ comealong). For midline attachment I like the bowline on a bight--it takes a moment or two to learn, but it's a breeze to tie once you know it, and to untie, you throw that first loop back over and pull both ends free.

Also, if you've ever loaded a bowline real heavy, then you know what it's like to spend 15 minutes w/ a screwdriver & pliers trying to bust it loose, cursing and trying not to hurt the rope w/ the screwdriver. Whenever I set a bowline that'll get heavy-loaded, I double the "rabbit-hole," and when you dress the knot make sure to leave a tiny bit of slack in the loop where the rabbit runs around the tree--that loop there is the key to breaking loose the knot after use.


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## Robin Wood (Aug 27, 2014)

old CB said:


> Bowline, running bowline, timber hitch, clove hitch, and cat's paw (for grabbing a bight w/ comealong). For midline attachment I like the bowline on a bight--it takes a moment or two to learn, but it's a breeze to tie once you know it, and to untie, you throw that first loop back over and pull both ends free.
> 
> Also, if you've ever loaded a bowline real heavy, then you know what it's like to spend 15 minutes w/ a screwdriver & pliers trying to bust it loose, cursing and trying not to hurt the rope w/ the screwdriver. Whenever I set a bowline that'll get heavy-loaded, I double the "rabbit-hole," and when you dress the knot make sure to leave a tiny bit of slack in the loop where the rabbit runs around the tree--that loop there is the key to breaking loose the knot after use.



You are right, when tying bowline always let it a lil' loose and add couple half hitches if there is any room. It sucks when bowline gets jammed up. 
Use a hammer to undo a jammed knot, place it on a flat surface and whack it at an angle that you want it to go.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 27, 2014)

Bowline .... Running ..... On the bight and a clove hitch .... Maybe a good square knot , an maybe be really awesome at variations of round turns , helps to send things up and down from ground to climber


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## miko0618 (Aug 27, 2014)

And if you rig from a block, a slip knot.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Aug 27, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> There was never a request for a list of knots.



But ya get it anyway around here.

I dunno, maybe 6 different bowlines I don't even know what they are called. Tons of little ones you can't live without and who knows about all the other ones that really have to be what has to be.

I have at least three I use for just tying on a pole saw, lets see: square loop, clove, slipknot on a bite or just wrap the rope around the hook a few times.

That's actually four so you get the point?


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## miko0618 (Aug 27, 2014)

I get it. I was just clearing up the discrepancy. We seemed incompetent


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## DR. P. Proteus (Aug 27, 2014)

derwoodii said:


> i keep a basic palate of knots after 30 years each one knows its place and my hand ties them before i had time to think too much about it
> i have few personal twists for certain needs & end splicing of eyes can still be done but i'd say been awhile since needed
> 
> Most frustrating or amazing is the proper tieing of 2 ropes together still eludes me, i surly need to find a method that works & practice this



Depending on what its used for:

Heavy: some kind of bowline to bowline perhaps on a bight but really if its heavy I will put a shackle in their cause rope on rope like is just something I personally avoid.

Light: I used this if my climb line is not long enough and basically its just a double bowline using two different ropes. Make two overhand loops in one rope then thread the other as you would a bowling THEN run it right back under where the rabbit goes around the tree then a couple half hitches back to itself just for some levity. You will see what I mean about running back under where the rabbit goes around the tree as the rope naturally will fit there. I used to think it was the Yosemite Tie Off but I don't think it is. THEN also tie half hitches in the other rope's tail end.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 27, 2014)

uh,,7
jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 27, 2014)

pick and choose
jeff


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## Overwatch (Aug 27, 2014)

Daisy chain hasn't been made mention of yet, I believe. I chain any 1/2 inch or smaller line that doesn't have it's own bag- it stows away neat and usually pays apart with a minimum of tangles. Works well for minding lanyards, too.

Also, double figure eight is bomber for an SRT canopy cinch in conjunction with a Delta.


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## pdqdl (Aug 27, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> There was never a request for a list of knots.



Actually, that is what it sounded like to me. And everyone else but you, since everybody has put up a list or added to it.

OK. I regularly use 13 knots. You can guess which ones.


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## TC262 (Aug 28, 2014)

One of my groundies knows 4 knots. Half hitch, slip knot, half hitch backed up with a half hitch, and a half hitch backed up with a fuk ton of half hitches.


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## TC262 (Aug 28, 2014)

Took him a while to learn the slip knot and I just gave up after that.


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## Jutt (Aug 28, 2014)

Overwatch said:


> Trucker's hitch for setting up quick mechanical advantage and tying down loads is one that I find indispensable.



Truckers hitch is pretty much one of the most useful knots IMO.


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## Jutt (Aug 28, 2014)

derwoodii said:


> i keep a basic palate of knots after 30 years each one knows its place and my hand ties them before i had time to think too much about it
> i have few personal twists for certain needs & end splicing of eyes can still be done but i'd say been awhile since needed
> 
> Most frustrating or amazing is the proper tieing of 2 ropes together still eludes me, i surly need to find a method that works & practice this


Double fisherman's knot works like a champ for joining 2 ropes.


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## derwoodii (Aug 28, 2014)

Robin Wood said:


> You are right, when tying bowline always let it a lil' loose and add couple half hitches if there is any room. It sucks when bowline gets jammed up.
> Use a hammer to undo a jammed knot, place it on a flat surface and whack it at an angle that you want it to go.
> 
> 
> ...





back in 2009 i posted this thread about non snitching easy to tie knot for securing limbs & it tested stronger than a bow line but would still open after weighted hard. The post has sadly lost its pictures, PDLQDL may recall the input was good thou i say dont use as life line pls
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/whats-this-knot.110861/

here some picture to help and the link to the knots name and how to tie http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-97-61/ch4.htm#fig4-25













test results from *** break bench and that a small tight turn of steel for the knot to take on but still will undo 




running 8 failed at 28kn



ah cannot find bowline break results,,, its in my files but not popping up ATM memory says bowline failed at 25kn


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2014)

Zale said:


> If you're going old school, four. Bowline, running bowline, clove hitch and tautline.
> If you're going new school, refer to all knots mentioned above.


That tiny list isn't enough. You cannot effectively tie two lines together with any of those knots, and none of them work for a mid-line knot.

I guess if your talent set does not include needing mid-line knots or joining two ropes, then you won't need those kind of knots. If you limit the knots you are willing to learn, in my humble opinion, then you are limiting your ability to do your job.

So far, no one has mentioned a good knot for tying onto the ball/hitch of a pickup so that it is as strong as possible, and will not ever bind up. If you think it's a bowline, you are not making the best choice.


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2014)

Jutt said:


> Double fisherman's knot works like a champ for joining 2 ropes.


 
It is the best knot I know for keeping them joined. Not so good if you ever plan on untying the knot.


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## derwoodii (Aug 30, 2014)

pdqdl said:


> So far, no one has mentioned a good knot for tying onto the ball/hitch of a pickup so that it is as strong as possible, and will not ever bind up. If you think it's a bowline, you are not making the best choice.




i got one for that towball hitch. I'll tie it take pictures as it not in any books i seen and a tad complex to word though but easy nuff to show


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## derwoodii (Aug 30, 2014)

uh oh any hoo i go tie it picture it be back soon


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 30, 2014)

Good tree guys don't tie to truck hitches , therefor I don't need a knot for that ....


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## derwoodii (Aug 30, 2014)

derwoodii said:


> i got one for that towball hitch. I'll tie it take pictures as it not in any books i seen and a tad complex to word though but easy nuff to show




many say dont ever tie load to tow ball tis true for reasons but often i will use the hitch as hard point if nothing better about 

Rope doubled then put over the ball shaft then a few lazy turns over the live rope side then the end loop goes back though open eye beside the ball , dress it up and your done. You can put load on hard and most often if done right will open after and not bind or snitch 

my running 8 is just as good but if u max load it due to small the ball shank dia turn it can work itself tight


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## miko0618 (Aug 30, 2014)

I clip biners to the safety chain holes. I prefer to use the recovery hooks on the front though. And i use a bowline then running bowline to tie my ropes together. I use 20,000 lb blocks, 10,000 lb rope, 10,000 choke rated slings, 3/8" quick links and double accessory life rated biners. The only thing i have ever broke was the biners. I've had 2 pickups spinning on 1 setup and i thought for sure the ropes were gonna fail.


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## TreeAce (Aug 31, 2014)

pdqdl said:


> That tiny list isn't enough. You cannot effectively tie two lines together with any of those knots, and none of them work for a mid-line knot.
> 
> I guess if your talent set does not include needing mid-line knots or joining two ropes, then you won't need those kind of knots. If you limit the knots you are willing to learn, in my humble opinion, then you are limiting your ability to do your job.
> 
> So far, no one has mentioned a good knot for tying onto the ball/hitch of a pickup so that it is as strong as possible, and will not ever bind up. If you think it's a bowline, you are not making the best choice.


whats wrong with tying two ropes together with two bowlines? what would you use?


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## miko0618 (Aug 31, 2014)

TreeAce said:


> whats wrong with tying two ropes together with two bowlines? what would you use?


Thats what i use on my bull rope. I never had any issues. I suppose the 2 loops make a small bend radius so that could be the weak link. But its stronger than what i am pulling with.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 31, 2014)

Square knot .... Best knot for marrying rope .


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## Robin Wood (Aug 31, 2014)

TreeAce said:


> whats wrong with tying two ropes together with two bowlines? what would you use?



If you are talking about joining two different ropes together i think you should try something called sheet bend, i think the reason they dont use 2 bowline to secure ropes are to avoid rope burn.
Was wondering if clove hitch+2 half hitch or anchorman hitch is good enough on a tow ball ?


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 31, 2014)

pdqdl said:


> So far, no one has mentioned a good knot for tying onto the ball/hitch of a pickup so that it is as strong as possible, and will not ever bind up. If you think it's a bowline, you are not making the best choice.



I have never had a problem with untying a double bowline.
Jeff


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## lone wolf (Aug 31, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> I have never had a problem with untying a double bowline.
> Jeff


I have seen them get a bit tight but I always use it, never failed.


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## lone wolf (Aug 31, 2014)

I would say the fig 8 is harder to untie more so than the double Bowline when being pulled with truck, or winch etc.


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## derwoodii (Aug 31, 2014)

lone wolf said:


> I would say the fig 8 is harder to untie more so than the double Bowline when being pulled with truck, or winch etc.



A double bow, yes be likely. but please try it against a single bow on a log or stump one day, my tests and others found it much same or better and stronger than bowline before it failed. 

I was amazed as its so simple to tie


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2014)

So far, no one has mentioned a good knot for tying onto the ball/hitch of a pickup so that it is as strong as possible, and will not ever bind up. If you think it's a bowline, you are not making the best choice.[/QUOTE] A girth hitch works well there.


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## old CB (Aug 31, 2014)

Jolly & I may be talking about a similar arrangement.

In this application I call it a cat's paw rather than a girth hitch. (See photo) Start with a double bowline, but rather than just loop the bight of the bowline over the ball, which makes for one tight bend--a weak point--the cat's paw distributes the stress over a greater portion of the rope, makes a stronger attachment.


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## miko0618 (Aug 31, 2014)

The problem with tying to a ball is the pulling angle limitations


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## miko0618 (Aug 31, 2014)

Thats irrelevant to the topic though


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## tree MDS (Aug 31, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> Thats irrelevant to the topic though



All that business past the girth hitch (or whatever the technical term is) in that pic is what's irrelevant.


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## Zale (Sep 1, 2014)

If I need to pull with the truck (which I rarely do) I find using a porty works much better.


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## pdqdl (Sep 1, 2014)

TreeAce said:


> whats wrong with tying two ropes together with two bowlines? what would you use?



A bit clumsy and bulky. The common sheet bend is essentially the same knot, without all the duplication. Just as strong, too.


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## pdqdl (Sep 1, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> Square knot .... Best knot for marrying rope .



An excellent choice, but not too easy to untie after it has been loaded. Sheet bend is preferable for ropes of different thickness, and works just as well for two ropes the same size.


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## arborjockey (Sep 24, 2014)

2 ropes joined at the ends Zeppelin bend not 2 bowlines.
Midline bowline is used a lot and clove hitchs. Oh oh and a hatchet knot at least that's what I call the ball of nonsense the groundys send up.

I don't tie to rig i use a big steele beaner ...and a marlin bend .


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## Howard Justice (Aug 27, 2022)

old CB said:


> Jolly & I may be talking about a similar arrangement.
> 
> In this application I call it a cat's paw rather than a girth hitch. (See photo) Start with a double bowline, but rather than just loop the bight of the bowline over the ball, which makes for one tight bend--a weak point--the cat's paw distributes the stress over a greater portion of the rope, makes a stronger attachment.
> 
> ...


Great idea …. Always tie a double bowline never a single. Without a load single can loosen …


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## Zale (Aug 28, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> That tiny list isn't enough. You cannot effectively tie two lines together with any of those knots, and none of them work for a mid-line knot.
> 
> I guess if your talent set does not include needing mid-line knots or joining two ropes, then you won't need those kind of knots. If you limit the knots you are willing to learn, in my humble opinion, then you are limiting your ability to do your job.
> 
> So far, no one has mentioned a good knot for tying onto the ball/hitch of a pickup so that it is as strong as possible, and will not ever bind up. If you think it's a bowline, you are not making the best choice.


That tiny list has served me well and it's never stopped me from completing a job because I didn't know a particular knot. I don't often tie two lines together. I will have the proper length of rope for the particular task.


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## Zale (Aug 28, 2022)

I just realized how old this thread is. Need more coffee.


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## anlrolfe (Aug 28, 2022)

Jutt said:


> Double fisherman's knot works like a champ for joining 2 ropes.


Try a figure 8 follow through.


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## anlrolfe (Aug 28, 2022)

treeclimber101 said:


> Square knot .... Best knot for marrying rope .


With a dynamic load, the square knot is the *deadliest knot *(aside from the granny or thief).
Even when tied correctly the square knot can walk if theres shock load or vibration. If you ever use a square, back it up with a few half hitches.
Try the Figure-8 Follow Through instead.


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## anlrolfe (Aug 28, 2022)

My Electrician Apprentices are required to learn the following knots:
Bowline
Clove
Clove with 1/2-hitche(s) for pulling wire
Truckers hitch
Double sheet bend
Figure-8
Sheep shank
Cats paw
Square - I've placed this last because of what's mentioned in the previous reply. Use a double sheet bend or figure-8 follow through.

When they tell me they're not scouts, why all the knots, I reach into my pocket and grab my truck keys and say you're going to the supply house. I tell them I don't want to see the company truck on the evening news with material spilled all over the highway. The driver is responsible for securing the load.

For those mentioning digging at the rope with screwdrivers and hitting it with hammers, may as well use the pocket knife. Do I understand that sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do? Yes. I also know the damage done to the rope.....
If there's ever a reportable accident every inch of those ropes could get inspected and become evidence as well as training qualifications.


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## pdqdl (Aug 28, 2022)

Zale said:


> That tiny list has served me well and it's never stopped me from completing a job because I didn't know a particular knot. I don't often tie two lines together. I will have the proper length of rope for the particular task.





Zale said:


> I just realized how old this thread is. Need more coffee.



Yes! An old thread to which you very rudely responded to me previously. In fact, you called me a moron from whom you didn't need to learn any knots.
(Don't bother looking for it, either! It was deleted for "name calling".)

I like your latest response much better.


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## pdqdl (Aug 28, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> Great idea …. Always tie a double bowline never a single. Without a load single can loosen …



I've never seen that happen. Ashley's Book of Knots doesn't say any such thing about it, either.


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## Zale (Aug 28, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> Yes! An old thread to which you very rudely responded to me previously. In fact, you called me a moron from whom you didn't need to learn any knots.
> (Don't bother looking for it, either! It was deleted for "name calling".)
> 
> I like your latest response much better.


I apologize for my first response. It was out of order.


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## pdqdl (Aug 29, 2022)

Eh. I may have the thickest skin on this website. Is ok. My feelings never got hurt.
I didn't even remember the conversation until someone else dug it up.

I just revisited an old thread in the forestry forum from 2017. OMG they did a lot of name calling back then. None of that content would pass the filters now.


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## Groundman One (Aug 29, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> I've never seen that happen. Ashley's Book of Knots doesn't say any such thing about it, either.



We've tied a thousand and one bowlines/running bowlines, under heavy load and taking more shock than they should, never seen one fail. Ever.


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## Del_ (Aug 29, 2022)

Anchor hitch and double fisherman's knot need on the list.

Also the Butterfly hitch.


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## lone wolf (Aug 29, 2022)

Groundman One said:


> We've tied a thousand and one bowlines/running bowlines, under heavy load and taking more shock than they should, never seen one fail. Ever.


Pull a half in rope on a big tree with a truck using a Bowline and I bet it will break at the Bowline . Not saying a Bowline isn't great I use them every day at work.


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## lone wolf (Aug 29, 2022)

http://igkt-solent.co.uk/knot-strength-chart/


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## pdqdl (Aug 29, 2022)

What a hoot. Your chart confirms my use of the Timber hitch. Actually, that is the strongest knot/hitch, if you discount the splices.

Unfortunately, your chart doesn't include a marl nor "half hitch", so we don't know for sure where that plays into the scale of things.


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## anlrolfe (Aug 29, 2022)

One of the keys to knot strength as well as other general rigging is: D/d
Diameter ratios divide the force. Better to double up that rope so the curve absorbs and spreads out the tension.
For anyone using chokers, don't draw the eye tight to the strap. Don't karate chop it in tight to the load which concentrates force.


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## nedsim (Aug 29, 2022)

treeclimber101 said:


> Square knot .... Best knot for marrying rope .





A sheet bend or any other of a number of secure bends should be used instead.


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## Groundman One (Aug 29, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> Pull a half in rope on a big tree with a truck using a Bowline and I bet it will break at the Bowline . Not saying a Bowline isn't great I use them every day at work.



Using a truck to pull a tree with 1/2" sounds like a bad idea right from the start. 

But did the rope break at the bowline or did the bowline fail?


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## lone wolf (Aug 29, 2022)

Groundman One said:


> Using a truck to pull a tree with 1/2" sounds like a bad idea right from the start.
> 
> But did the rope break at the bowline or did the bowline fail?


It broke at the bowline as expected.


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## Groundman One (Aug 29, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> It broke at the bowline as expected.



The rope failed, not the bowline. I've had that happen. 

Most knots don't keep 100% rope strength integrity far as I know.


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## anlrolfe (Sep 2, 2022)

As soon as you make a loop around something or the rope itself by making a knot you loose strength. These are some numbers I found.
Knot Strength

NO Knot 100%
Bowline 70-75%
Water Knot 60-70%
Figure 8 75-80%
Clove Hitch 60-65%
Overhand 60-65%
Sheat bend 48-58%
Square 38%


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## EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar (Oct 25, 2022)

Tagged


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## jolj (Oct 26, 2022)

Ten knots & a good book of knots.


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