# Central Boiler steam leaking from top, temperature won't drop



## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

Good morning,

First post on this forum, lots of good information here that has helped me thus far in troubleshooting my problem. I've owned a Central Boiler CL-5036 for 10 years and it's treated me well, with the occasional need to spray some WD-40 on the damper or remove build up around the door/damper door I haven't had to do much maintenance on it.

Nearly two days ago, I went came home and noticed steam shooting out from the top. I went out immediately to see what's going on and I noticed the water level had risen by about an inch. My temperature gauge reads 210, and when I opened the door to see what the wood was doing it was completely dead/smoldering. Checked the damper, it's flush and closed. Checked the door, and it appears to seal. I haven't loaded any wood in it for nearly two days and the same amount that was there when I noticed the steam remains - so it's not a draft issue/burning issue. 

I checked the pipes in the house that come in and feed my heating system, and they were warm to the touch but not scolding hot. They still feel like water is moving thru them though? I'm not sure how to describe it, but it doesn't feel like a pipe with still water in it.

My local dealer has been closed all weekend and has not returned my calls to see what the problem is but it sounds like my water pump in the central boiler is bad. I had a spare temperature controller that I replaced just to see if that changed anything but it did not. I did not replace the temp sensor. What are your guys thoughts? Could it be anything else? If it's the water pump, how difficult is this to replace?

Thanks for the help!


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## Armbru84 (Dec 11, 2016)

I am not 100% sure how the centrals work as I have a Heatmor, but if your boilers hot and it's. It that hot in your house it seems like there is a flow issue or it's simply hot out. Which I doubt is the case! Are you getting much heat once the furnace kicks on in your house? Seems like it would not if you were getting no circulation.


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## H-Ranch (Dec 11, 2016)

Sounds like a flow problem for sure. After 10 years the heat exchanger or other areas could be clogged. There was a member a few years ago that found a valve that had been turned off. Or it could be the pump as you say.

I don't know how the pump is plumbed on the Central Boilers, but if you do have to replace it now would be a good time to install quick couplers on either side of the pump - then the *next* time it can be swapped out in 5 minutes. I plumbed mine in the basement and keep a spare on hand for just such an emergency.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

I'm not getting much heat at all in the house, some heat, but not what it normally is. I have on/off switches for Wood/Oil and both are on at the moment so my heating system is trying to use wood first and it's not working all that well! I could turn it off to get full heat from the oil but I'm worried about my underground pipes freezing - seeing as it's snowing right now!

The hot water is working normally though, which is controlled by the same system. Out at the Central Boiler, the water pump sounds like it's running but I'm not sure if it's actually pushing water or not. My system has been steaming and at 210 degrees for nearly two days and the same couple of logs I put in two days ago, it normally burns thru 12-15 pieces every 10 hours or so. I don't know how it's staying so hot!


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

That's what I'm thinking - it's the water pump. I kind of hoped there was something else causing this as I do not have couplers/shut off valves on the side of the Central Boiler. Which would mean I'd have to drain it completely before I can replace it. I'll double check my other shut off valves, and maybe turn the entire system off then back on and see if that does anything.

Thanks for the help/direction everyone! Hopefully a new pump will give me another solid 10 years!


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## Armbru84 (Dec 11, 2016)

It would be interesting to see if you turn the whole system off if the temp actually drops. Or purge in some cold water and see if it levels out or rises back up. I have left my furnace sit for 3 days over a weekend and the water at the boiler still drops 30-40 degrees over that time depending on outside temp.


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 11, 2016)

Sounds like either a heat exchanger blockage or pump problem.

Although we don't know much about your system.

Do you have isolation valves on the heat exchanger? Guessing not likely since none on the pump? Ideally there would be isolation valves, and hose bibs at inlets & outlets on both sides of the HX to allow for easy flushing. Whatever turns out to be the problem, it's sounding like cutting into the plumbing will be required, and a draining. So it's a good time to remedy those plumbing shortcuts & get it done right - could be a HX this time, and pump the next. Or vice-versa.


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## Dogsout (Dec 11, 2016)

If you do have to cut to replumb, if you have enough room might I suggest installing a T fitting in the space where you install valves to isolate your pump. On the T put a close nipple, a ball valve and a pressure gauge. Next time you have any doubt, you can close your outlet pump valve to dead head the pump, and open up your valve on the T to the pressure gauge to check your pump for pressure. It is a good idea to dead head your new pump right away and get a pressure reading so you know what a good reading is when needed. This can also help some what when your pump is getting weak but still working. If you should see a steady slight drop in pressure it may be a good time to do a little preventive maintenance and change out the pump then.


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

Ok, it sounds to me like your OWB has shut down and the oil boiler is taking over. Your oil boiler is circulating the water through your OWB and then back to the house , ergo the cooler temps at the pipes from the OWB. The pump at the OWB is going to circulate water as long as the power to the pump is on. If the temp is cold enough to freeze then do not shut the power to it off. The steam from the top of the boiler is probably from the pressure relief valve. Most valves are set at 30psi. The water level increase is probably from the excess heat of 210° causing expansion in the system. In my system, I have to lower the on /off limits of the oil boiler so that it doesn't override the OWB. You want the OWB to be the primary supplier of heat and then the oil boiler to be secondary. Check the temp of your water at the oil boiler and the pressure and be sure they are lower than the settings at you OWB. Your oil boiler also has a pressure relief valve on it and may have a higher setting then your OWB causing the OWB relief valve to open and dump pressure. One question that just came to mind is, do you have a closed loop system or an open loop system ? From the sound of your problem I assumed it was a closed loop system.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

I do have valves at the heat exchanger, both for the two inlets and two outlets. I just don't have valves at the other side where the pump is within the boiler. So if it is a blockage in the heat exchanger that would be ideal.

Good idea to put in the T and a pressure gauge if I do have to cut into it. I will do that if it comes down to doing that.

I'm going to shut down the system meanwhile and wait a little while to see if the temp drops and if firing it back up does anything at all.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

djones said:


> Ok, it sounds to me like your OWB has shut down and the oil boiler is taking over. Your oil boiler is circulating the water through your OWB and then back to the house , ergo the cooler temps at the pipes from the OWB. The pump at the OWB is going to circulate water as long as the power to the pump is on. If the temp is cold enough to freeze then do not shut the power to it off. The steam from the top of the boiler is probably from the pressure relief valve. Most valves are set at 30psi. The water level increase is probably from the excess heat of 210° causing expansion in the system. In my system, I have to lower the on /off limits of the oil boiler so that it doesn't override the OWB. You want the OWB to be the primary supplier of heat and then the oil boiler to be secondary. Check the temp of your water at the oil boiler and the pressure and be sure they are lower than the settings at you OWB. Your oil boiler also has a pressure relief valve on it and may have a higher setting then your OWB causing the OWB relief valve to open and dump pressure. One question that just came to mind is, do you have a closed loop system or an open loop system ? From the sound of your problem I assumed it was a closed loop system.



I am not sure if it is a closed loop or open loop system. If a closed loop means the water used in the boiler is separate from the house water system (drinking/bathing) then it is a closed loop.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

I checked the water pump that is inside, that I can isolate with the shut off valves. The taco water pump is extremely hot to the touch, I imagine this is not normal?
I attached a picture of my system inside, showing the heat exchanger and water pump


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

A closed loop system is one where the water is maintained within the heat system and has no open outlet or fill pipe. An open system has a stand pipe that allows for overflow and filling of the system. The water is always separate from the domestic (potable) water. The oil boiler and the OWB just heats the heat exchanger inside the oil boiler. Another question, the pipes going to and returning from your OWB, are they both cool or is one hot and the other cool ? If you have 210° at the OWB and no fire, then the oil boiler is doing all the work keeping that water hot. If you have 210° water in your OWB but it is not coming back to the house then you have a circulation problem probably caused by the OWB circulation pump. Is your pump on the OWB or in the house near the oil boiler ? If you have no isolation valves then you have my sympathies.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

The two front pipes in the picture feel slightly cooler than the two in the back (going into the heat exchanger). None of the 4 are hot to the touch.


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

Tap lightly on the temp gauge at the OWB. If the temp gauge says 210° and is cool to the touch then there is something wrong there. If it is digital then look for a reset or turn the power off and wait 5 minutes then turn it back on. 210° is definitely not cool to the touch.


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

Is there a pressure gauge and temp gauge on your oil boiler? If so what are the readings ?


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

According to central boiler, your hi limit setting for your model boiler should be 185° or above. I would check to see what your max setting should be for the PEX pipe you used and adjust accordingly. Had your OWB been running normal before this incident? My basic theory is when all else fails, go back to the beginning and start over. Is your temp gauge reading 210° or is that the setting you have chosen for it ? Try resetting your basic thermostat settings and see what happens. Is there still steam coming out of the top of the boiler? I see in the Central Boiler info package that they refer to the systems as pressurized or non pressurized. Pressurized would be the closed system and non-pressurized would be the open system. Do you recall which one you have?


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

The 2 shut offs you have at the heat exchanger for the OWB will isolate the circulation pump for you but you will still lose some water that you will have to replace. if you have a pressurized system you will not lose that much, but if you have a non-pressurized system you will lose everything in the OWB down to the pump. You can try plugging the fill pipe to create a vacuum when the pump is removed and save some water, if it is non-pressurized.


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## H-Ranch (Dec 11, 2016)

jaycmw18 said:


> I checked the water pump that is inside, that I can isolate with the shut off valves. The taco water pump is extremely hot to the touch, I imagine this is not normal?
> I attached a picture of my system inside, showing the heat exchanger and water pump


I'm going with odds on the heat exchanger by the photo and the age. I would guess that the performance has been slowly degrading over the years and it is finally plugged to the point that it can't flow enough. The pump may be hot just from deadheading against the blockage. The higher fill level, steam, and cool pipes seem to indicate the temperature reading is correct at the OWB, but it's a good practice to check the simple stuff first anyway.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

djones said:


> Tap lightly on the temp gauge at the OWB. If the temp gauge says 210° and is cool to the touch then there is something wrong there. If it is digital then look for a reset or turn the power off and wait 5 minutes then turn it back on. 210° is definitely not cool to the touch.



I replaced the temperature controller with a new one yesterday and it still reads the same temperature. I did not replace the probe however, so it could be that maybe?


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

djones said:


> Is there a pressure gauge and temp gauge on your oil boiler? If so what are the readings ?



There is no pressure gauge or temp gauge on the oil boiler side


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

djones said:


> According to central boiler, your hi limit setting for your model boiler should be 185° or above. I would check to see what your max setting should be for the PEX pipe you used and adjust accordingly. Had your OWB been running normal before this incident? My basic theory is when all else fails, go back to the beginning and start over. Is your temp gauge reading 210° or is that the setting you have chosen for it ? Try resetting your basic thermostat settings and see what happens. Is there still steam coming out of the top of the boiler? I see in the Central Boiler info package that they refer to the systems as pressurized or non pressurized. Pressurized would be the closed system and non-pressurized would be the open system. Do you recall which one you have?



Yes, my OWB had been running normal. I typically run the OWB at 190, I tried to lower it to 180 with no change in behavior. Steam has been steadily coming out of the top for two days now although it has been slowing down the last 8-12 hours.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

It appears as though it is a non-pressurized system


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

Before replacing any more parts, you have to find out if you have any flow to the house from the OWB. I am assuming that you have a fire going in the OWB and that the temp you are reading is the actual water temp. How hot are the pipes at the pump on the OWB ? Check both sides. Then check the temp on the pipes at the heat exchanger. According to the picture you posted and the diagram from central boiler, you should have a fairly consistent temp across those points of reference. With your pump being located close to the OWB, the temps are going to (should) be high on both sides even if the pump is not running and you should have similar temps at the exchanger, minus some loss due to distance from the house. But in both cases, if the pump is working correctly, you will have hot water at the exchanger. If the exchanger has one side hot and not the other, then the exchanger may be the problem. Have you tried just using the oil boiler to see if it heats the exchanger also? The way that it is plumbed in, it should heat up the exchanger when running the oil boiler. Looking at your picture, how hot are the pipes on each side of the oil boiler circulator, before turning on the oil boiler? After?


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 11, 2016)

Unless the boiler temps are wonky (and if there is steam flying, they shouldn't be) - it seems pretty obvious there's a flow problem. That should be easy to determine - if the OWB pipes in the basement aren't too hot to touch, the water isn't flowing. If the HX is blocked, it shouldn't be hot on either side - if water isn't moving, heat isn't getting to it either. A partial blockage, or sick but not dead pump, might show hotter on one side of the HX than the other. Is the OWB circ making any noise at all? You might have to get your ear right up to it. A hum might indicate a stuck circ or wonky motor - gurgly type noises might indicate cavitation/deadheading from a HX blockage. No noise at all might indicate it's dead. Either way, with no isolation valves, it will be a PITA, I'm afraid.


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 11, 2016)

Just went back & saw your HX pics.

Some troubleshooting info, assuming the OWB is higher than the HX:

Shut off your OWB circulator. If you close both isolation valves on the OWB side of the hx, then crack/disconnect the union for the OWB return line (a little water will spill out, but should just be what's in the HX between the valves), then crack open just a bit the isolation valve for the OWB supply line, water should run out the open connection fairly freely. That should mean that the HX isn't obstructed.

If the OWB isn't higher or there isn't much difference, and you don't get a gush - turn the OWB circ on for a moment. That should push water out if there is no HX blockage. And if your circ is working.

That won't shoot all your troubles, but should shed some light. If the HX is plugged, it will at least require a good flushing with maybe something like muriatic acid (others might have better ideas on that). If it's plugged too bad, might be better off just swapping in a new one, then work at cleaning the old one up when you have time for use as a spare.

If the HX seems all clear, I think I would just get a new circ & do the swap anyway - at 10 years old, you should have a spare, if that doesn't fix it.

Or, you could wait for your dealer guy to help.


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

Good plan. Lets hope that the OWB is higher since he seems to have an open system. If installing a new circulator is what needs to be done, now would be the time to think about putting in isolation valves as well.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

I powered everything off for about 2 hours and just powered it back on. I noticed when I had this all turned off, my house was actually warm again thanks to the oil heat.

Attached are a few additional pics. I labeled my plumping on the house pipes as well. This is all after turning on the wood boiler and waiting about 30 minutes. I'll now turn it off and post what the pipes feel like on just the oil burner

Pipe 1 is hot beneath the yellow handle, and slowly gets hot to warm as you follow the pipe outside
Pipe 2 is hot beneath the yellow handle, but room temp as you follow it outside
Pipes 3 and 4 are both hot to the touch

All pipes outside in my OWB are hot to the touch


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

NSMaple1 said:


> Just went back & saw your HX pics.
> 
> Some troubleshooting info, assuming the OWB is higher than the HX:
> 
> ...



I'm not quite following the crack/disconnect the union part of what you'd like me to try. Do you mean just slightly open the valves on the return lines into the HX? Or do you mean physically open up the pipe/disconnect it from the HX?

My OWB is higher than the HX


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## Andy-H (Dec 11, 2016)

jaycmw18 said:


> I'm not quite following the crack/disconnect the union part of what you'd like me to try. Do you mean just slightly open the valves on the return lines into the HX? Or do you mean physically open up the pipe/disconnect it from the HX?
> 
> My OWB is higher than the HX


Sounds like circulation pump on stove is not moving water. Close valves next to outside pump, unplug electric, remove motor housing, I think the bolts are 7/16" head. Check impeller for breakage/blockage. You can't hurt anything in there. If impeller is broke you can get a "cartridge" for pump to fix it. Ten years is a long time on the impeller. You got your moneys worth out of it


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## djones (Dec 11, 2016)

So , how hot is the pipe coming out of the pump at the boiler ? You may have to slide some insulation out of the way to get a foot or so away from the pump. 
NSMaple was referring to the unions on the HX, #'s 1 & 2. Turn off the OWB , if you do not know which line is the return then you may have to do the procedure twice. Close both valves, disconnect one union, a small amount of water will come out, open the valve on the still connected line a little to see if water comes out the HX, if water comes out fairly fast then the HX should be fine. Close that valve. Turn on the OWB, the pump will now dead head, open one valve a little to see if pressurized water comes out, put a bucket under the line. If nothing comes out of the fist one then close that valve and try the other one. Be careful of the one still connected to the HX since it points up. Put a bucket over top of it and then open the valve a little. If the lines are under pressure it should squirt out pretty good. With the pump turned off you will get gravity flow because of the higher elevation of the OWB but with the pump turned on it should squirt. BE CAREFUL with the hot water.


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 11, 2016)

jaycmw18 said:


> I'm not quite following the crack/disconnect the union part of what you'd like me to try. Do you mean just slightly open the valves on the return lines into the HX? Or do you mean physically open up the pipe/disconnect it from the HX?
> 
> My OWB is higher than the HX


Do you know what a union is?


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 11, 2016)

The pipes out at the boiler, all 3, are hot to the touch. It looks like all but one pipe gets hot to the touch, so possibly a clog in the heat exchanger or the pump inside near my furnace.

I do know what a union is now, after googling it! I'm not a plumber  I think some of these troubleshooting techniques are beyond my capabilities. I've gotten into this stuff before and caused more harm than good. I do thank you all for getting me this far, I at least think it's narrowed down to one or two things. I'm hoping my local dealer will have someone available who can come out and fix this for me.

I'll post back and let you all know what ended up fixing my condition. I appreciate all the help!


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## hanniedog (Dec 11, 2016)

A smart man is one that knows his limitations. No dishonor in getting help. Hoping for an easy fix.


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## sam s (Dec 12, 2016)

I'm thinking its the pump.


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## lindnova (Dec 12, 2016)

Yep, get a rebuild kit or a new pump. Looks like a fast swap with that setup. Still could have restriction on the exchanger. If in doubt might be best to get a dealer or plumber in there. You have isolation valves in the right places.

I can't tell the pump number but mine is a Taco 011 and am on rebuilt pump number 3 in 10 years, so pump is very likely the problem.

Also do you test your water? Poor water quality can affect HX clogging problems.


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 12, 2016)

lindnova said:


> Yep, get a rebuild kit or a new pump. Looks like a fast swap with that setup. Still could have restriction on the exchanger. If in doubt might be best to get a dealer or plumber in there. You have isolation valves in the right places.
> 
> I can't tell the pump number but mine is a Taco 011 and am on rebuilt pump number 3 in 10 years, so pump is very likely the problem.
> 
> Also do you test your water? Poor water quality can affect HX clogging problems.



Ya, you're right. I hadn't looked at the second pic before - looks like there are iso valves there. In that case, I'd just get a new pump & do the swap. Pretty well mandatory to have a spare one on-hand anyway. New flange gaskets while at it.

Maybe the boiler guy got out there & has it done already by now - but at 10 years, I'd be just as leery of buildup in the HX as I would be of the pump. It should likely be flushed anyway.

Curiosity....


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## farmer steve (Dec 12, 2016)

following the thread just because i might need this info some some day. thanks to @NSMaple1 AND @djones and the rest for helping out a fellow keystoner.


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## farmer steve (Dec 12, 2016)

jaycmw18 said:


> The pipes out at the boiler, all 3, are hot to the touch. It looks like all but one pipe gets hot to the touch, so possibly a clog in the heat exchanger or the pump inside near my furnace.
> 
> I do know what a union is now, after googling it! I'm not a plumber  I think some of these troubleshooting techniques are beyond my capabilities. I've gotten into this stuff before and caused more harm than good. I do thank you all for getting me this far, I at least think it's narrowed down to one or two things. I'm hoping my local dealer will have someone available who can come out and fix this for me.
> 
> I'll post back and let you all know what ended up fixing my condition. I appreciate all the help!


hope you get up and running @jaycmw18. where in PA are you? york co here.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm having someone come out today from Lawn Care Distributors where I bought the CB from (http://www.lawncaredistributors.com). I brought him up to date with the knowledge that was shared here and he believes as well it's either the pump or HX but leaning more towards the pump. I'll shadow him today just to build my own confidence in servicing this thing in the future should this happen again - and keep a spare pump on hand. I have a spare solenoid, temp controller/probe so might as well have the Taco 009 on-hand also.

I do test the water, maybe not as regularly as I should but last time I did was last summer. Before that, maybe 4-5 years prior was last time I checked it.
I am in the York County area as well.


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## Andy-H (Dec 13, 2016)

jaycmw18 said:


> I'm having someone come out today from Lawn Care Distributors where I bought the CB from (http://www.lawncaredistributors.com). I brought him up to date with the knowledge that was shared here and he believes as well it's either the pump or HX but leaning more towards the pump. I'll shadow him today just to build my own confidence in servicing this thing in the future should this happen again - and keep a spare pump on hand. I have a spare solenoid, temp controller/probe so might as well have the Taco 009 on-hand also.
> 
> I do test the water, maybe not as regularly as I should but last time I did was last summer. Before that, maybe 4-5 years prior was last time I checked it.
> I am in the York County area as well.


If it is the pump, all thats needs to be replaced is the cartridge, not the entire pump


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 13, 2016)

Ok, it's been fixed. Having watched how it was done - yea I could have done it!

It was the water pump in the OWB. As soon as the technician heard the sound of my outdoor pump, he said that's what is bad. It was making a slight humming noise, and honestly I never really noticed much of a change in the sound the pump made. He said the impeller is most likely damaged. He offered to just replace the impeller to see if that does it but I said I'll buy the part and replace it myself and keep it as a backup.

My novice plumbing knowledge truly shined when I said great how do we do this? There were two valves, one on either side of the water pump (circled in blue), that he simply turned to cut off the water. He also turned the other valve on the far right. With all valves off, he loosened the 4 nuts, removed the old water pump and replaced it with a new Taco 009 water pump. Minor wiring needed to be done to take the old electric plug off the water pump and put it on the new one but just keep track of which wire goes to which when your swapping if someone else needs to do this. He also loosened the motor from the impeller and rotated the motor/electric box mount so it sits sideways, the way the new motor was mounted the electric box was facing the insulation of the OWB and wouldn't fit. He just loosened the 4 bolts on the Taco pump, pulled them out, rotated it and put them back in.

When putting the new water pump back on, he did not fully tighten all of the bolts at first. I'd say they were 90% tight, he plugged the pump in and he slowly turned on the valve below the water pump and allowed a bit of water to come out. He then slowly turned the yellow handle valve on the right hand side, waited a moment, then turned it off. He did this a few more times, and he said he was doing this to ensure water flow was not being restricted from within the house (I guess at the HX) but also to allow any air out in case any got in during the replacement. He then full tightened all the bolts, pretty much as hard as he could, and opened the valves all the way.

My pipes inside immediately felt as though I was touching the sun. My water temperature dropped pretty quickly from 210 to 170 as my fire was pretty tiny at the time.

I'm back in business!


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## farmer steve (Dec 13, 2016)

glad your up and working jay. gonna be a chilly one here in the next couple of days. are you in lancaster co.?


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## lindnova (Dec 13, 2016)

Now rebuild the old housing and put another plug on it and you have a spare for a real quick swap for next time it goes out.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 13, 2016)

That is the plan, to replace the cartridge in the old water pump and keep it as a spare. I figured just bite the bullet and have him put the new one on while he's here and keep a spare.
Yes, just outside of Lancaster. It's gonna be chilly!


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## farmer steve (Dec 13, 2016)

jaycmw18 said:


> That is the plan, to replace the cartridge in the old water pump and keep it as a spare. I figured just bite the bullet and have him put the new one on while he's here and keep a spare.
> Yes, just outside of Lancaster. It's gonna be chilly!


stick around Jay. lots of other stuff on this forum. i'm near east berlin. just west of york. bunch of central pa members here.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 14, 2016)

farmer steve said:


> stick around Jay. lots of other stuff on this forum. i'm near east berlin. just west of york. bunch of central pa members here.



I think I will, there is a lot of good stuff here


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## djones (Dec 14, 2016)

Diagnosing a problem over the net is hard given that a physical presence is often required to get all the info you need. If we helped you in any way to resolve your problems in the future, then our work here is done. Live long and prosper.


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## jaycmw18 (Dec 14, 2016)

djones said:


> Diagnosing a problem over the net is hard given that a physical presence is often required to get all the info you need. If we helped you in any way to resolve your problems in the future, then our work here is done. Live long and prosper.



You sure did, and I'm sure this will help someone else in the future as it did me. Thank you!


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