# Michigan man dead after tree he was cutting fell on him



## stihlhead (Dec 17, 2009)

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=116784


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## Treetom (Dec 17, 2009)

Sad story. Just down the road from here. Prolly on the news tonite.


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## rmihalek (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm sorry if the question I'm about to ask offends anyone, but can someone please inform me of circumstances that would allow a tree to fall on the faller when being cut down?

I can completely understand how a faller can get hit by a falling tree: you've made your backcut, you stand near the stump, the stem kicks back and kills you.

But what I can not understand, even after years of reading these fatality reports, is how a falling tree can kill the faller. In other words, the way I read this is that the faller got crushed by the falling tree. Right? So, how does that happen. You made your undercut, your making your backcut, if the tree starts coming towards you, don't you have time to get out of the way? If you read the lean wrong, doesn't your chain get pinched long before the tree breaks free and starts falling?

Again, I am not asking this to offend. I'm sure there are those amoungst us who have lost a friend or family member in the woods. It's just that these reports never REALLY say what happened.


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## PA Plumber (Dec 17, 2009)

rmihalek said:


> I'm sorry if the question I'm about to ask offends anyone, but can someone please inform me of circumstances that would allow a tree to fall on the faller when being cut down?



Can't give you every circumstance, but I can give you a personal story.

Was dropping a Hemlock with a double leader. It wasn't huge, but each side was over 18" diameter with a stump of around 30 some inches.

Where I was cutting was about 4' down from the top of the split. I figured the tree would be a single trunk a couple of inches above the ground. 

Put in the face, started the back cut and the uphill leader separated from the down hill leader. 

It sat on my saw and started to spin. I began to run, stopped, looked up, changed my mind, the tree continued to spin. Started to run in another direction, stopped, looked up and the tree switched headings and then finally committed to a falling angle. 

I headed up hill, and, as it turned out, went through the fall zone of the leader, but was safely up hill by the time it was on the ground.

From when the tree separated to when it was on the ground was just a few very short seconds. Thankfully there was clear escape path all around the trunk. 

That experience scared the pants off of me. I do still cut doubles, but my heart slams in my earmuffs the whole time.


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## treemandan (Dec 17, 2009)

RIP

To help answer the question: Maybe he was just driving in and something fell on him. Maybe he was killed when piece broke out of the top on the tree he was working on. Maybe he slipped and fell in the DZ. Maybe the tree was hung up in another and when he cut it fell back on him. Maybe he cut it and it didn't go in the direction he thought it would go.

Now if you want to hear something that sounds bad:

I am sort of relieved it seems that most deaths like this are not happening to us professionalls but rather the non-professionalls. It seems that even when its a real tree guy the guy was up to no good or untrained mexican. that makes me feel better somehow.


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## rmihalek (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks for the responses. It was a difficult question for me to ask because I know there are a million and one ways that things can go wrong. It always seems to me that these reports of fatalities are lacking in detail to such a large extent that nothing can be learned from them. And, if that's the case, then the report is nothing other than sensationalism, like rubber necking on the highway when driving by a wreck.

PAPlumber's story is some information I can use. I've never had to cut a multiple leader tree, but I can tell you now, I'll be much more aware of the added danger if I have to.


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## gwiley (Dec 18, 2009)

It is easy to forget the magnitude of the forces being exerted in a falling tree. When you consider the sheer weight of the tree (often thousands of pounds) and then the acceleration you get scary numbers. Add to this unpredictable stresses in the wood fiber, pressure exerted by the wind and imbalances in the tree itself we need to remember that anything can happen.

As soon as I see the trunk start to move I begin my exit, if it is going very slowly, I just sit and wait. Trees can jump in wild ways and then consider the effect of a barber chair that might happen just after the face cut. That piece of trunk can act like a fly swatter and reach unbelievably far back.

There is a reason that OSHA reports that the majority of logging fatalities happen to fallers within 6' of the stump - it (tree falling) is simply a very dangerous thing to do.


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## rmihalek (Dec 18, 2009)

When the backcut starts opening up, I am GONE! I'll watch the stem from 20 or 30 feet away. I'll wait a minute or two if I have to go back and thin the hinge a bit, just enough time to see why she didn't go over and what the problem might be.


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## Bermie (Dec 18, 2009)

Unfortunately a lot of newspaper reports are thin on detail and to a certain extent it leads to the thought that somehow the tree was at fault, and people continue to take on tree related tasks that are, quite frankly, beyond their understanding and skill levels.

EVERY tree has the potential to kill, we as professionals or very experienced amateurs have the experience to read the tree, the situation, think forward, anticipate problems and plan the work accordingly, AND know when to call someone else and/or seek help or advice.

But anyone can buy a chainsaw at the hardware store...

Its always a tragedy when someone dies trying to do something themselves...I send my condolences.


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## lone wolf (Dec 18, 2009)

treemandan said:


> RIP
> 
> To help answer the question: Maybe he was just driving in and something fell on him. Maybe he was killed when piece broke out of the top on the tree he was working on. Maybe he slipped and fell in the DZ. Maybe the tree was hung up in another and when he cut it fell back on him. Maybe he cut it and it didn't go in the direction he thought it would go.
> 
> ...


what do you mean by that exactly?


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## pinemartin (Dec 18, 2009)

lone wolf said:


> what do you mean by that exactly?



It means he is a uncaring piece of human excrement that thinks the lives of non professionals and mexicans are of no value and he enjoys seeing them die. Anyway that is how I took it, maybe he should clarify what was meant.


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## rmihalek (Dec 18, 2009)

treemandan said:


> RIP
> 
> Now if you want to hear something that sounds bad:
> 
> I am sort of relieved it seems that most deaths like this are not happening to us professionalls but rather the non-professionalls. It seems that even when its a real tree guy the guy was up to no good or untrained mexican. that makes me feel better somehow.



Back in 1993, the auto racing world lost one of the best, if not THE best, driver: Ayrton Senna. He was, a the time, a three time World Driving Champion and probably would have amassed a few more WDCs if he hadn't perished.

The general sentiment I read about and heard about at the races after Senna's death was similar to what Dan mentioned above: it's easier to understand, easier for our brains to process, when a less experienced operator (whether it's an F1 car or a chainsaw) dies versus when a skilled operator succumbs to the dangers of the profession. 

I won't back up the "mexican" aspect to it other than noting that immigrants, illegal or otherwise, have been taken advantage of for centuries, whether it's in the coal mines, steel mills, or timber industry. Their deaths are no less tragic.


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## wgrassel (Dec 18, 2009)

Being from Pittsburgh I know a bit about the Steelers. Retired Steelers guard Steve Courson died when a tree he was cutting fell on him. I found these details online:

Courson had been cutting down a 44-foot tree on his property, but a gust of wind changed the direction of its fall, and he moved into its path while attempting to prevent his dog from being struck.


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## KodiakKen (Dec 18, 2009)

*dam dogs*

for us single folks...they are at least as important or more than wives..


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## treemandan (Dec 18, 2009)

lone wolf said:


> what do you mean by that exactly?



I mean this:

That our knowledge as professionals works, that it is not dumb luck keeping us alive. No, I don't really like to hear about people getting it like this but I have some sort of consolation thinking that since I know about all the things that can kill you and heed them I stand a better chance of making it.
Now if the injury and death forum was filled with stories about professionals dying right and left I would feel rather uneasy. 
It seems the people who are getting killed the most are those who either did not know the rules or didn't not heed them. I know and heed so I feel better knowing I got a pretty good shot at not making my wife cash in my life ins policy just yet. I don't feel quite the sheep to slaughter.


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## treemandan (Dec 18, 2009)

pinemartin said:


> It means he is a uncaring piece of human excrement that thinks the lives of non professionals and mexicans are of no value and he enjoys seeing them die. Anyway that is how I took it, maybe he should clarify what was meant.



If I wanted you to explain what I meant I would have said " Pinemartin, explain what I meant", but I didn't so don't. Thanks.


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## dingeryote (Dec 18, 2009)

The story is skimpy on details because he likely was cutting alone, or his partner didn't see what happened.

Dosn't matter if we had the details anyway, cuz we all know that wierd things happen and expect them to happen, and it is never enough.

The gentleman had been cutting for years and was well seasoned in the woods. He misjudged something, or got sloppy.
We all do that too, and when that happens luck sometimes runs out.

We have had some good wind storms lately, and some of the snags are hung up or leaning, some are stressed.
I had one POP the other day on the face cut, and then proceed to partially blow out about 10' up.

Stuff happens.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## pinemartin (Dec 18, 2009)

Glad you cleared that up Ben. Thanks


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## stihlhead (Dec 19, 2009)

treemandan said:


> If I wanted you to explain what I meant I would have said " Pinemartin, explain what I meant", but I didn't so don't. Thanks.



If you don't want someone speaking for you, maybe you need to speak a little clearer for yourself. Sounded rather odd to me as well when you start bringing non-professionals and Mexicans into a thread on someone dying from a tree related death. Point of the thread in the first place was to show how easy it can happen.......to anyone!


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## techdave (Dec 20, 2009)

*Treemandan, FYI on "Mexicans"*

I would like to please remind you that " Mexican " is a nationality and/or "racial" group, and as such includes doctors, lawyers, and other high falutin types. If you only see uneducated laborers where you live so be it, but using Mexican as a synonym for lower caste is ignorant and ill-advised.

Having said that, I figured you meant no offense or racial slur in your original post, but were just carelessly lumping all Mexicans in as unskilled labor.

FYI, alot of the forest ROW work done in the Cuyamaca mountains of SD county after our wildfires of the last 10 years has been done by Mexican-Americans and Salvadorenos. ( Despite the bad feeling a lot of people express in here about AZZ-plunder the utility tree boys, the guys who work for them seemed allright to me, white/mex/whatever.)

I have had the pleasure of working with these crews several times and they were alll skilled, cautious, and open to sharing ideas and learning from us tips on bucking large diameter trees in a forested and steep area. We learned from them rigging, lowering, and bucket skills that a trail crew would not ever be exposed to.


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## outonalimbts (Jan 13, 2010)

*When you work in the woods long enough you see trees fall in unexpected ways.*

To answer your question, it is possible for even the most experienced person to get killed doing everything correctly. We come to get cocky, at times because we are professionals and we have cut thousands of trees. Many of which were deadly instruments just standing there. 

I used to give classes all the time when I was in the Army. I was a regular at all kinds of classes. Not because I knew the material any better but because of my style of teaching. I like to explain it first throughly then I do it, then I have the students do it. 
As a logger I was asked to break in the newbies, get them into the woods, show me the best way to make the lead and which trees I should take and why. Eventually we would start to cut. On one particular occasion this new guy Jim wanted to watch me cut this very large diameter Fir. This tree seemed to have been left to grow from the first cut, and this was a third generation harvest. This one tree if cut properly would fill 1/3 of a truck of short logs.

I told Jim to stand about 40' away from the tree so he would have time to react if it started to fall, he was off to the side behind me. I made my face cut, and looked around to see him where I had stationed him. I proceed to begin my back cut, and guess what, the tree crumbled, it was rotten through about 15' above my head, but looked totally solid. When the tree started to move, it exploded, I mean if it had been packed with explosives it wouldn't have exploded any differently.

Jim had decided stupidly to get a better view, and was only about 15' behind me in my escape path... I not only ran into him but he was in so much shock that I had to pull him out of the way as the top came crashing down on the very point we were standing. To have seen the way this tree collapsed I still don't understand how it was standing in the first place. 

When the solid portion of the tree hit the ground, it sheared and caused the top to begin to fall in a different direction, it again struck the ground and shifted its path, it finally came to rest where Jim had been standing. The original head lean was almost exactly the other way.

Jim quit his job, went back to school and is now an X-ray tech.
Some back story here, Jim had worked with us for 6 months on the landing and 4 months as a swamper. So he knew something about the way the trees can act. 

A few years later, I was doing some USDA contract thinning in the Sit Grieves National forest in Alpine, AZ. I was assigned to fell trees on a parcel of land to assist in Mistletoe isolation. I had to fall a medium sized Pinion pine because it was totally infested with mistletoe. I read the log and it showed that it couldn't fall anyway but down hill, I made my face cut and it barber chaired, I moved very quickly, but it ended up landing on me, and pinning me to the ground under its branches. My crew cut me out.

The Forest Ranger on that project had been there that day and had seen this tree fall, he said that he had never seen that particular problem before. His comments reinforce my title, trees act unexpectedly.

Be careful , it is dangerous out there.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 25, 2010)

treemandan said:


> I mean this:
> 
> That our knowledge as professionals works, that it is not dumb luck keeping us alive. No, I don't really like to hear about people getting it like this but I have some sort of consolation thinking that since I know about all the things that can kill you and heed them I stand a better chance of making it.
> Now if the injury and death forum was filled with stories about professionals dying right and left I would feel rather uneasy.
> It seems the people who are getting killed the most are those who either did not know the rules or didn't not heed them. I know and heed so I feel better knowing I got a pretty good shot at not making my wife cash in my life ins policy just yet. I don't feel quite the sheep to slaughter.


.

.You've never fell timber in the wind in Southeast I take it . Because sheep to the slaughter is how it feels some days .....
There are so many things that CAN go WRONG that it,s ONLY by the Grace of God I can sit here and type this , and go to work tomorrow , and walk upright ,ect. ...I know a bunch of dead Professional Timber fallers . And more that almost can,t even pick up a power saw .........And I mean some guys that were as strong as a man and a half ...Bullet proof tough .....and they are dead and crippled for life ..........Way better hands and fallers than I am . But tomorrow I will go to work and before I go my wife and I will pray to Almighty God to help us , and to keep us safe . The wife will have the same force of concern she does every morning she prays for me before I go to work cuttin timber ...............I,m a really good timber faller .A bit above average amonst hard core professional fallers in Alaska ... But I ain,t good enough to keep myself alive and in one piece not for 25 years makin a living with a saw ........Every night I thank the Lord Jesus for blessing me with another day on the saw ... Another day of living .........It,s not a religous thing ... It,s a real thing .. I don,t come over to the accident side much .............It,s too hard dealing with all the questions asked and answered ......... Other pro,s will tell you one of the same things I will .. You don,t run from every tree , or even most trees ,., Only the ones you need to and you need to be fluid enough to read the tree and make it in the clear in time .............It,s a bad deal when ANYONE with a saw gets it . And especially when a pro does , because it does rock the world of our individual knowledge .............It,s mandatory to review all we do concerning our work ...... But without God's help , I,m just a little bug in a great big forest ....


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## DeAvilaTree (Jan 25, 2010)

Well said Tramp, sometimes I take a moment to just watch my wife and children do their everyday things, because you know you might not see it again.


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## outofmytree (Jan 25, 2010)

Laying aside our not-so-insignificant egos for just a moment gentlemen (and lady) it is fair to say that ignorance is the enemy of the new hand. In that same vein then, complacency is the enemy of the skilled and experienced tree worker.

Reading this is yet another reminder to use the right technique *EVERY* time.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 25, 2010)

*What about the hundreds of situations no tecknique was developed for ?*

Of the hundreds of thousands of trees I,ve fell , not a hundred were the same identicle situation ........I agree tecknique is important and skill also ...But a persons brain is only so big ,and some things just happen .


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