# Chaps in trees



## ND_ash (Oct 25, 2009)

Being new climbing I was just wondering if chaps can be used in a tree our if the pants are the best. I checked with a couple local Stihl dealers and they have never sold pants before. If I need to order them, who sells them and about how much.


----------



## ATH (Oct 25, 2009)

I think they can cause too many problems in a tree - pants are a much better option. I only wear them (pants) if I am doing a lot of chainsaw work in a tree - since I don't do a lot of removals, that is not often...

Most arborist supply places will have them - check the site sponsor links above.



(Not a sponsor here, but I got my pants from midwest arborist supply.)


----------



## TDunk (Oct 25, 2009)

Just wear pants. Chaps have a tendency to get twisted and catch every twig the tree has to offer. If i'm not cutting, the saws off. Less chance of getting cut.


----------



## Tree Pig (Oct 25, 2009)

I will wear chaps when I climb but only if I am climbing naked, to protect my legs. I also wear a... well never mind we are getting in to that too much info category.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Oct 25, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I will wear chaps when I climb but only if I am climbing naked, to protect my legs. I also wear a... well never mind we are getting in to that too much info category.



thats good tom trees


----------



## Rftreeman (Oct 25, 2009)

saw control = no chaps needed in the tree, if you can't run a saw in the tree without cutting yourself then you need to use a butter knife.....or at least a hand saw for a few months....


----------



## randyg (Oct 25, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> saw control = no chaps needed in the tree, if you can't run a saw in the tree without cutting yourself then you need to use a butter knife.....or at least a hand saw for a few months....



I agree however, IF you must go in the tree with a saw, pants better than chaps. If you have to ask, you need em...


----------



## lego1970 (Oct 25, 2009)

At a British Petroleum safety meeting last year one of the big Safety Reps, was saying that there was talk of mandating the use of chaps or protective pants while operating a chainsaw in a tree. Matter of fact I thought somebody at the meeting said that either Canada, Australia, or UK might of already be mandating that. If that's true maybe one of the AS member from those countries could chime in. I wouldn't mind wearing some kind of protective pants if they are still somewhat flexible, but there is no way I'd wear chaps in a tree, unless it was strictly just spiking up trunks. I hope I don't jinks myself, but I can't really think of a time when the saw is close to my legs while in the trees. On the ground I always wear them, even if I'm just messing around in my yard. No real particular reason, it's just that I happen to have them, so I use them. 

I gouged into a pair of chaps once, but that was on the ground. We were clearing a bunch of vines and brush along a real steep 200' hill and lost footing while into a cut. Saw came out and slammed me in the thigh when I tumbled down the hill a little ways. Chaps did their job, at least with a 029 Stihl while the rpms were still coming down from full rev.


----------



## ND_ash (Oct 25, 2009)

randyg said:


> I agree however, IF you must go in the tree with a saw, pants better than chaps. If you have to ask, you need em...



I agree, I am comfortable with the saw in a tree and since I make my help wear PPE on ground one of the guys said, if I didn't need it he don't need it. The other day while doing a pine removal, I de branched on the way up and when I asked for the saw I got the butter knife and he laughed you got protection and when I said no, he said when you get it you'll get the chain saw. There was some other words too but I am sure you understand.


----------



## bulldoglover (Oct 26, 2009)

I have been wearing the Stihl pants for years, I think they are the summer ones. Plenty of protection in the front and around the calves, flexible and light on the backside. I was always told that chaps can be very dangerous in a tree, because there is that slight chance that a branch could get caught between your leg and the straps. Im sure it is a very slight chance, but just giving the tree one more way to get me was enough to make me buy the pants. 


Rftreeman said:


> saw control = no chaps needed in the tree, if you can't run a saw in the tree without cutting yourself then you need to use a butter knife.....or at least a hand saw for a few months....


I've seen my fare share of near misses (and had some close calls myself). That saw does not care if you have been climbing 10 minutes or 10 years. It only takes a half of a second to read a branch wrong and your day is over. There are plenty of chainsaw accidents every month, and not all of them are home owners and rookies. just my .02


----------



## Rftreeman (Oct 26, 2009)

bulldoglover said:


> I've seen my fare share of near misses (and had some close calls myself). That saw does not care if you have been climbing 10 minutes or 10 years. It only takes a half of a second to read a branch wrong and your day is over. There are plenty of chainsaw accidents every month, and not all of them are home owners and rookies. just my .02


if you're having close calls and near misses then you need to control the saw a little better, it's like driving a car, keep control and you don't get hurt unless someone hits you...


----------



## treeoperations (Oct 26, 2009)

i wear chaps while climbing and my only gripe is the buckle round my waist digs in with harness on but i jst move it so it dont, very rearly do they get caught on things.

i have summer pants that i wear in winter if its REAL cold which is like -1 degree celcius which we dont get here in auckland very often so its just chaps for me i like the breeze haha


----------



## derwoodii (Oct 26, 2009)

I found saw chaps and pants heavy awkward un helpfull during tree work. My preference was always overhauls elastic brace as they keep all tucked in stopping loose clothing fouling snaps and flip lines. 
So I cut up a pair of chaps and stitched them to a pair of overhauls. This kit worked well for me and 25 years on I still use similar.
I hoped that chap manufacturers could see a market here but seems nope, pants with braces the go. My line of thought is, untucked n loose shirts all over your harness . Its only time till you hook into cotton not steel.


----------



## RacerX (Oct 26, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> if you're having close calls and near misses then you need to control the saw a little better, it's like driving a car, keep control and you don't get hurt unless someone hits you...




Your answer is somewhat disingenuous. We have seat belts and airbags in cars because people have accidents everyday. Accidents are just that, accidents. They're unplanned events that can result from things that are simply out of our control. Even veterans can have an accident when operating a chainsaw in a tree.

Since the guy is the OP is a new climber and is asking about protection wouldn't it be better to encourage him to use PPE?


----------



## EdenT (Oct 26, 2009)

Not wanting to get into the discussion re 'whether real men wear chaps...', but I will say that I have used both pants and chaps in a tree. Here the weather is warm and chaps over trousers are hot, uncomfortable, and restrictive. I must buy some more chain proof pants soon. 

I am not sure whether the wearing of chainsaw protective equipment is directly covered by OHS ACT/regulations/code of practice, however they do say things like 'equipment users must comply with manufacturers instructions', which include the wearing of appropriate PPE. 

As a side note I ran in to a couple of chainsaw cowboys the other day. I asked a cutter why he didn't wear chaps. He said too restrictive. I asked if bandages were any better. He agreed they weren't and showed me a foot long scar across his left thigh. 'That one nearly killed me', he boasted. Already brain dead I thought.


----------



## outofmytree (Oct 26, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> if you're having close calls and near misses then you need to control the saw a little better, it's like driving a car, keep control and you don't get hurt unless someone hits you...



I appreciate your point rf but I'm with racerx on this one. Anyone, at any level, can make a mistake. It only takes one. I work and climb in Stihl saw proof summer pants 365 days of the year. I have ONCE, climbed in chaps and promptly went out and bought the pants which are much much better all round.



> there was talk of mandating the use of chaps or protective pants while operating a chainsaw in a tree. Matter of fact I thought somebody at the meeting said that either Canada, Australia, or UK might of already be mandating that.



In Australia when you are working for gain or profit your operation falls under the OHS act of 1984 and the accompanying legislations and codes of practise. In my state that means you wear PPE 100% of the time that you operate a chainsaw whether standing, climbing or in a bucket. If you are just cutting up firewood you are not required to wear PPE.


----------



## Rftreeman (Oct 26, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> I appreciate your point rf but I'm with racerx on this one. Anyone, at any level, can make a mistake. It only takes one. I work and climb in Stihl saw proof summer pants 365 days of the year. I have ONCE, climbed in chaps and promptly went out and bought the pants which are much much better all round.


I understand your point but my take on it is this, in this business a mistake can kill you or someone else so I practice more on the control part then protection not that I don't use ppe, I do most of the time...





outofmytree said:


> In Australia when you are working for gain or profit your operation falls under the OHS act of 1984 and the accompanying legislations and codes of practise. In my state that means you wear PPE 100% of the time that you operate a chainsaw whether standing, climbing or in a bucket. If you are just cutting up firewood you are not required to wear PPE.


chaps in a bucket, where do they make you wear them, wrapped around your head........lol..

that reminds me of a "drop starting saws" meeting we had once, they said anyone seen doing it would get wrote up so I asked if they were going to provide arm extensions, they ask "arm extensions for what" I replied 'so we can put the saw on the ground while we're in the bucket to start it"...............lol


----------



## ND_ash (Oct 26, 2009)

Thanks guys, Pants have been ordered. 
I should have asked if your going to use PPE in the tree which is better. The biggest reason I am looking for the protection is, if and when something would happen, I want the best chances I can get, I am 43 yrs old and healing is slow. Using the bucket it has never crossed my mind, but in the tree 40' off the ground and no one there to help other then calling 911. I think a guy should take every precaution you can. Most of the work I have been doing is pine removal and you can't really set a climb line for quick exit. My 13 yr old son is always harping on me too, Grandpa makes me wear chaps why don't you. I would like to set a good example for him. It will never go to waste with my kids around my 13 yr old and me are about the same size and if grandpa says you wear it, you do. I have already caught him with my saddle climbing in the backyard. He's teaching himself and using all ropes. He said the spurs are to dangerous.
Gotta love the kids when you can't find your equipment.


----------



## BlackenedTimber (Oct 26, 2009)

I use chaps 100 percent of the time when on the ground, and even though I consider my saw skills to be above average, I have nicked myself in the chaps twice. Once with an 066, and once with an 044. They were the Stihl kevlar chaps, and they worked exactly as advertised, and I am grateful for that. 

When climbing, I will wear chaps if I am chunking out a large spar with one of the big saws. I don't generally wear chaps airborne though, because they are extremely restrictive.

Of coarse, after reading this thread, I am conviced I have to buy some cool kevlar pants now.

Anyone use the chainsaw-proof gloves? I once cut my left index finger with the tip of my 200 while it was revving down, after making a cut on an extremely large white birch limb up in the bucket. Trashed my finger, thought at first that I had cut it off, and I looked like an a-hole in front of the HO... hope to never make that mistake again, but that was a long time ago.


----------



## outofmytree (Oct 27, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> chaps in a bucket, where do they make you wear them, wrapped around your head........lol..
> 
> that reminds me of a "drop starting saws" meeting we had once, they said anyone seen doing it would get wrote up so I asked if they were going to provide arm extensions, they ask "arm extensions for what" I replied 'so we can put the saw on the ground while we're in the bucket to start it"...............lol



Don't get me started on "safe" work practises in a bucket. I asked how OHS suggest I start my 660 in a 2 man bucket. The reply was, between your knees. I said, where is the operator going to be at this point? They then said, have your groundie start it and send it up on a rope. I said, so when I turn it off, do I send it down again? I got no reply...


----------



## outofmytree (Oct 27, 2009)

ND_ash said:


> Thanks guys, Pants have been ordered.
> I should have asked if your going to use PPE in the tree which is better. The biggest reason I am looking for the protection is, if and when something would happen, I want the best chances I can get, I am 43 yrs old and healing is slow. Using the bucket it has never crossed my mind, but in the tree 40' off the ground and no one there to help other then calling 911. I think a guy should take every precaution you can. Most of the work I have been doing is pine removal and you can't really set a climb line for quick exit. My 13 yr old son is always harping on me too, Grandpa makes me wear chaps why don't you. *I would like to set a good example for him.* It will never go to waste with my kids around my 13 yr old and me are about the same size and if grandpa says you wear it, you do. I have already caught him with my saddle climbing in the backyard. He's teaching himself and using all ropes. He said the spurs are to dangerous.
> Gotta love the kids when you can't find your equipment.



Can't argue with that logic. Thats one reason why I wear full ppe all day. If the crew sees me slacking off then they will too.


----------



## lego1970 (Oct 27, 2009)

Chaps in a bucket or having a groundman start your saw and send it up everytime is a little much, but having operated some pretty old buckets that break down with me still 50' up, I always carry a rope. I can't believe he suggested starting a Stihl 066 inbetween your legs in a two man bucket. That is pretty dangerous if you ask me. The upper quandrant of the bar is going to be about in the perfect location for hitting the far side of the bucket. I drop start it off the side of the bucket. I worked for one guy that had a fire extinguisher mounted in the bucket, and I thought that wasn't too bad of an idea, even if a chainsaw fire is pretty remote.


----------



## squad143 (Oct 27, 2009)

I wear the chainsaw pants. Like I have said in other posts 99% of the time while in the trees. 100% while cutting on the ground.

It is now going to be 100% of the time. 10 days ago, 40' up an oak (without protective pants) and the MS200 just nicked my left knee. I now have a nice cut 2 1/2" long, 1/8" deep and the width of a chain.

It wasn't an issue of saw control, more of rope control and being in a hurry. I had a high tie in point on the opposite side of the tree I was removing. I had limb walked over to an adjacent tree to remove a stub. Wrapped my flip-line around the tree I was cutting the stub off of. I had not noticed (in a bit of a rush I guess) that my TIP line was caught on some bark, up high in the tree. Just as I was finishing my cut of the stub, I dropped a couple of feet and the saw just touched my knee. I consider myself lucky that it didn't hit the kneecap or any tendons/ligaments.

I was mad at myself because I know better. 

Lesson learned.


----------



## TreeW?rx (Oct 28, 2009)

I watched my father rip the pocket out of his pants, (just barely caught the cloth before he moved the saw away), cause he was just gonna make a little cut. We started wearing chaps but have gone on to the custom pants from Madsens with the LaBonville snap in inserts. I wear them to climb as well as on the ground. They are a little more restrictive than just wearing jeans, but much better than wearing bandages.


http://www.madsens1.com/


----------



## derwoodii (Oct 28, 2009)

Chaps in lift buckets yup go figure. Had same here with a Veg co saying we needed to have em on whilst line clearing from a bucket with a Hyro pole saw.
35c that's 90d plus days no shade and working hard in a plastic cup you would cook slowly in cotton so we put em in the basket ready for any audit bloke who would see the need to ask.
Starting a saw up a lift was the same. Frustrating when rules make no sense but are still enforced. 
The ability of contract overseer's to keep safety highest in mind whilst allowing for common sense in his crews is well regarded trait sadly seldom found.


----------



## beowulf343 (Oct 28, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> saw control = no chaps needed in the tree, if you can't run a saw in the tree without cutting yourself then you need to use a butter knife.....or at least a hand saw for a few months....



Interesting. I agree with you Rftreeman, and in fact said something similar here a couple years ago when people were talking about using wirecores because they allow you to nick the lanyard. 
I'm willing to take it a step further, however. While i have nothing against chaps or wirecores, and in fact use chaps every time i'm cutting on the ground, over the last couple years i've seen these two items promote carelessness and bad habits. I laid a saw into my leg as a teenager. Pain is a good teacher and have been more careful ever since. But i'm seeing guys now that nick their chaps on a weekly basis and think it's funny when i get upset about it. But they keep doing it because there are no consequences until i fire them. I wonder if they'd keep doing it or find it so funny if they laid a spinning chain on their leg. Simply put, if you are nicking your chaps, you're an idiot and doing something wrong-put down the saw before you do damage to the half of your body that isn't kevlar coated.


----------



## ozzy42 (Oct 28, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> Interesting. I agree with you Rftreeman, and in fact said something similar here a couple years ago when people were talking about using wirecores because they allow you to nick the lanyard.
> I'm willing to take it a step further, however. While i have nothing against chaps or wirecores, and in fact use chaps every time i'm cutting on the ground, over the last couple years i've seen these two items promote carelessness and bad habits. I laid a saw into my leg as a teenager. Pain is a good teacher and have been more careful ever since. But i'm seeing guys now that nick their chaps on a weekly basis and think it's funny when i get upset about it. But they keep doing it because there are no consequences until i fire them. I wonder if they'd keep doing it or find it so funny if they laid a spinning chain on their leg. Simply put, if you are nicking your chaps, you're an idiot and doing something wrong-put down the saw before you do damage to the half of your body that isn't kevlar coated.



:agree2:


----------



## outofmytree (Oct 28, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> Interesting. I agree with you Rftreeman, and in fact said something similar here a couple years ago when people were talking about using wirecores because they allow you to nick the lanyard.
> I'm willing to take it a step further, however. While i have nothing against chaps or wirecores, and in fact use chaps every time i'm cutting on the ground, over the last couple years i've seen these two items promote carelessness and bad habits. I laid a saw into my leg as a teenager. Pain is a good teacher and have been more careful ever since. But i'm seeing guys now that nick their chaps on a weekly basis and think it's funny when i get upset about it. But they keep doing it because there are no consequences until i fire them. I wonder if they'd keep doing it or find it so funny if they laid a spinning chain on their leg. Simply put, if you are nicking your chaps, you're an idiot and doing something wrong-put down the saw before you do damage to the half of your body that isn't kevlar coated.



Very well said.

Whilst I am a firm supporter of full PPE when using a chainsaw it is NOT intended to be a substitute for good hazard control. In the same way that I wear my seat belt but keep good braking distances when driving my truck.


----------



## Rftreeman (Oct 29, 2009)

I think you have more of a chance getting cut on the face, hands and arms in a tree than cut on the leg but as I said, control is the best defense against cutting yourself...


----------



## EdenT (Nov 11, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> Interesting. I agree with you Rftreeman, and in fact said something similar here a couple years ago when people were talking about using wirecores because they allow you to nick the lanyard.
> I'm willing to take it a step further, however. While i have nothing against chaps or wirecores, and in fact use chaps every time i'm cutting on the ground, over the last couple years i've seen these two items promote carelessness and bad habits. I laid a saw into my leg as a teenager. Pain is a good teacher and have been more careful ever since. But i'm seeing guys now that nick their chaps on a weekly basis and think it's funny when i get upset about it. But they keep doing it because there are no consequences until i fire them. I wonder if they'd keep doing it or find it so funny if they laid a spinning chain on their leg. Simply put, if you are nicking your chaps, you're an idiot and doing something wrong-put down the saw before you do damage to the half of your body that isn't kevlar coated.



Have to agree. The introduction of airbags in cars led to an increase in accidents because people grew complacent. I have stuck a chainsaw on my chaps once and was pretty annoyed at the eventual outcome. 'New chaps, new bar, new chain, new clutch'. It was my employers money but I still felt like an idiot for spending it. Now I am more careful, but I will still go on wearing them. Hopefully my employer will never have to buy another pair (or fire me!)


----------

