# Fliplines.. Steel vs Rope



## DFD34 (Feb 18, 2006)

I have used a 16 strand flipline for a long long time. It is 12 feet long and has a aluminum locking snap at he end. Another climber at the company that I work at uses a steel core flipline with the locking snap that is covered by rope. I would like to get one but I always here the comment, "What if you get in a situation that requires you to cut your flipline and you can't." What do you all think??? Any comment would be great. Thanks in advance.


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## clearance (Feb 18, 2006)

I climb with steelcores all the time, they are better than rope because it takes more to sever them than a rope, but you can cut through them with an 020, done it. I do not like aluminum for biners, never seen an aluminum rope snap. Never been in a situation where I had to cut my steelcore but I have knicked steelcores a couple of times with my saw, glad it wasn't just a rope. Hope that helps you out, there have been many talks about fliplines here, check out the search option.


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## skwerl (Feb 18, 2006)

When was the last time you allowed yourself to get into a situation where you needed to cut your rope while in a tree? 20 years climbing and I've never had to cut my rope yet. 

Regardless, a rope lanyard or steelcore lanyard is a personal choice. Both are safe when used properly and both can fail if misused or abused. If most of your climbing is running up and down conifers, you might prefer a steelcore for easier flipping. If you work a lot of spreading canopies on oaks or similar, you may find the rope lanyard more versatile. 

This is an old argument typically argued by uninformed climbers who wish to limit themselves by closing down their options. I won't tell you that one is better than the other. Try both and pick what works best for you.


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## cushdog (Feb 18, 2006)

i use a steel cord flipline. i also keep a 16 strand with me for when i need to redirect. i actually do most of my climbing wioth the cord flip. i use the strand when cutting. it worksfor me. i might not have given you any insight on your question, i don't move up the tree without being bucked in.


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## BostonBull (Feb 19, 2006)

Both are great choices. I used to use 2 lanyrds. I had a rope one for pruning and small stuff and then I had a steel core for climbing with the crane and large removals. I use my steel core now for everything. I find its weight easier to throw around a spar or large leader.

But like evryone here is saying you have to pick which one you like. You wouldnt go out and buy a saddle without trying it on would you?


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## rbtree (Feb 20, 2006)

clearance:







Question for you: when cutting with a chain saw in a tree, how many tie-ins do you use?

also, what's the matter with aluminum for life support? A 26kn biner provides a 26-1 SWL ratio based on average body weight...that's plenty for me....Heck, we use scads of aluminum biners for light rigging like speedlining conifer limbs.


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

Generally tied in once, with a steelcore. The work law states climbers shall use a steelcore to cut, if not steelcore then two attachments. I always climb to the top, cutting as I go up, top it and come back down. If I have to cut while I am rappeling down then I use my steelcore as well. Thats a pretty fancy looking rope snap, should be hanging on a Christmas tree, thanks for showing it.


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## rbtree (Feb 20, 2006)

cushdog...never heard of steel cord...I think you mean steel-core...

DFD, I use a ~20 foot rope lanyard for pruning. It is great for climbing as either it or your lifeline to be installed overhead. For removals, I've always preferred steel core....easier to flip up, like the stiffness...and added security, however false, as a chainsaw could cut through the steel core in a flash. Remember, TITS.....!!!

"Tie in twice, stupid!!"


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## rbtree (Feb 20, 2006)

clearance, that's the law in BC, but most of the rest of the world requires 2 tie-ins.....you're risking your life cutting with only a steel core lanyard...you just said yourself you cut through one once.....personally, i've climbed over 30 years and only cut mine badly once, back in the 70's...was near the ground, but didn't go all the way through. In recent years, I can't remember the last time I even nicked my flip line. TITS!!!


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

PB thank you for your concern. That is the law here, people have fallen out of trees here when they were freeclimbing or descended from a weak branch. Just not practical to always tie in twice and you cannot cut a steelcore in a "flash" with an 020. Yes you can cut them, just not too likely when you are looking at it. Are you tied in twice when you are blocking down a big fir? If so what, with two steelcores? I liked tying in with my rope and using my steelcore when I was doing utility, using a pole pruner with two or three extensions to bust off or cut stuff hanging over the line or in another tree. Just felt more comfortable, more control.


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## JimL (Feb 20, 2006)

No line clearance allowed here with a steel core line...


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

Jim, the steelcore around power has come up here before, it is in search. Many who are not trained to climb around power offered up opinions, they think plain rope does not conduct! If you are that close, you are real close, probably violating safe limits of approach.


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## cushdog (Feb 20, 2006)

man...they put the d close to the e.


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## rbtree (Feb 20, 2006)

Boy, clearance, you are one opinionated know it all......I repeat, TITS, it is the law! Well, ANSI law anyhow. Everyplace but BC, and it should be there as well.

When chunking down a spar, yes, I always have a choked lifeline, with flipline a bit lower. On the way up a removal, I'll usually set an overhead lifeline, not always though. If not, it'll be set similarly to my flipline. 

By the way, maybe not an 020, but I gaurantee you my 335 could decimate a steelcore flip line in a fraction of a second. 

You, young fella, relatively speaking, have a lot to learn.....


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

PB, no need to be condescending, thanks for saying I'm young, anyways I really like tits, just not what you are talking about. "Know it all", hey I am not telling you what to do, climb however you want. You could learn something about saws and get a ms200 though, even I know that and I am a Husky guy. Yes, I do have a lot to learn about many things, I'm sure. However I was taught how to climb by some very experienced men, some of the most respected utility guys in B.C.. But I guess they have a lot to learn as well, from you, now who is the know it all?


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## begleytree (Feb 20, 2006)

I'm starting to get the idea that BC is a very small place. At least as far as line clearance goes. 
One bad part of all the utility regs is this: who made the regs? BC hydro? for what reason? safety or production? I've worked with a lot of power companies in my time. I can honestly say that the regs are written to allow for a moderate amount of safety, with a larger emphasis on production. After all, how long does it take to maintain a second tie in point? just about 1/2 a second longer than a freefall to the ground, imo.
-Ralph


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## 1I'dJak (Feb 20, 2006)

i don't get it... when going up a removal, you've got your flipline plus you're tied in to an overhead limb... or are you using two flips? I use two flips if i've got to go over limbs, but if i'm removing the limbs as i go up i've just got one...my boss always just has one even when he's going over limbs...i defineltly didn't learn my safety from him!


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

Ralph, it is understandable for you to think that way after hearing me talk about utility here. You know, climbing with spurs, one handing, steelcores around power, one tie in. One handing is the only thing out of the four that is prohibited (but always done) B.C. is a huge place, many thousands of miles of transmission and distribution lines. The regs. about climbing are made by the Workers Compensation Board of B.C., the regs. about climbing around power are by them as well. It is the utility, B.C. Hydro that authorizes people to work on thier system. You have to have a trade certificate issued by the Province and be authorized by Hydro. B.C. Hydro can revoke or authorize your ticket. This training is six weeks in class and field over two years and 1200 hours of supervised work in close proximety to powerlines. I haven't heard of other places were there is this much training to work around power. In spite of these pratices you deem to be unsafe no one has been killed doing utility here for many years, unlike some states. This unfortunate man who died was a groundsman, not a climber. The Compensation rules are on the net, not hard to find, I think worksafe bc should do it. In regards to safety vs. production, most utility work here is contract, low bid gets it. That probably tells you what you need to know, I don't agree with it myself. At the end of the day, Hydro, like any big corparation will circle the wagons and cover their own ass if something bad happens. There are a lot of inspections and trade retesting happens every two years, they really make an effort to have everyone work safe. But when low bid takes it....people are pushed, of course. Hope this helps you.


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## rbtree (Feb 21, 2006)

I have a 200T, clearance...but my 335's beat it, are lighter, more maneuverable,and I like them better. I also sometime do spurless removals.....got your goat yet?


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## begleytree (Feb 21, 2006)

Clearance, utility work in BC is no different than the utilities I've worked for, in the 6 states I've run crews and jobs. You have to have the same training, LCTT, to break the min clearance + 10 ft rule. like there, LCTT training allows any climber to approach within min clearances. Only here, you have a few more rules to follow. I maintain the training and records upkeep on my own personal small operation here, just so I don't have to mess around with the local line boys. Too many times they left the wires intact, but destroyed everything else. makes me look bad by association, ya know?
One thing holds true @ 99% of the time here, any really good climber worth his salt never stays at LC any longer than he has to, once his or her understanding of proper tree care, and general attitude reach a certian level, they seek a place where higher skills and proper tree care is rewarded with great money and respect. thats 2 things that are usually lacking at the big low cost tree cutting services. How well I know low bid! I used to bid contracts for a larger 26 state company.

On a side note, I used to (years ago when I thought I knew everything about trees) have to go out and clear trees back from the wires for private tree companies to finish. I used to enjoy removing every high tie in point, and crotch to rope from. I though that would make their job harder, because it would have to me then. That all stopped when I watched real tree guys (back then) work like I had done nothing out of the ordinary. As I grew up, I realized I didn't hate them for being good, or for being better than me, I really hated myself for not being better than I was. A problem I have since rectified.
Maybe you will too someday?
-Ralph


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## clearance (Feb 21, 2006)

Ralph, a well said, honest post. I'll have to think about that for a while.


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## xtremetrees (Feb 21, 2006)

I have been in situations where if I couldnt cut my saw lanyard I would of had to cut my steel core. 
You can saw thru a propane tank  what makes u think u cant saw thru a little wire holding your life up there?:monkey:


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## Bermie (Feb 21, 2006)

DFD34 said:


> I would like to get one but I always here the comment, "What if you get in a situation that requires you to cut your flipline and you can't." What do you all think??? Any comment would be great. Thanks in advance.


Here's my two cents worth:
I have said this before on another post, when using a steelcore, always have somewhere in the attachment/adjustment system that is rope or a nylon strop so you can cut yourself or be cut out in an emergency. I use a piece of prussik cord with a micro pulley as the adjuster on my steelcore. I have also used someone else's that had a petzl microcender attached with a 5' nylon strap to the clip on the side. Either way, it could be cut easily with a knife (that you always have with you in your first aid kit on your belt!?)

As for attachment while in the tree, for pruning, regular main climbing line XTC plus, with a 12' rope lanyard for work positioning. When dismantling, wire core at the top closest to the saw, attached to side D's, backed up with main climbing line below attached to centre of harness. That way there is always a system ready as a backup should the worst happen and the wirecore get cut, or you need to be lowered out to the tree. Also having the climbing line in there prevents an uncontrolled slide to the bargain basement if you gaff out! It has happened to me, luckily I was only about 10' up, chogging my way down a casuarina (bark comes off in sheets on older trees) I was tired, I stood up too straight on my spikes, out they came and down I went, all the way to the bottom! my steelcore was on the side D's and did not grip at all, no harm done but a red face a few grazes and will always have a backup in the future, lesson learned.


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## darkstar (Feb 21, 2006)

*clear view*

YO clearence ,while you are thinking ,why dont you go ask your mama for her opinion?????:jawdrop: Dark


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## notahacker (Feb 21, 2006)

skwerl said:


> When was the last time you allowed yourself to get into a situation where you needed to cut your rope while in a tree? 20 years climbing and I've never had to cut my rope yet.


 :sword: Good point.

I only use a steel-core lanyard when needed. I feel it is necessary when chunking or blocking out large wood. Large to me (a 145 pounder at 5'-8") is cutting into wood 20" to 28" in diameter with my MS460. I know that my MS460 could cut right through a steel-core lanyard, if the situation was right. So, in reality I use it for that situation I might knick my lanyard accidently.  

Have I ever knicked my lanyard before? No. Do I take precautions and think ahead not to cut my lanyard? Yes. Maybe it is piece of mind for those who use it often? :angel:


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## clearance (Feb 21, 2006)

Ralph- thought about what you said all day, making sure not to cut my steelcore. I am a C.U.A. but quit utility in July 05, bucked on a hoechuck show for a little bit and then moved to the Queen Charlottes. It was good to hear of your utility experiences, you have probably seen it all. The companies I worked for did res. and commercial work but primarily utility. Here in B.C. I think the wages are pretty much the same no matter your climbing job. You are right about utility guys getting little respect, one level above child beaters by the looks you get. My job now (windfirming) is low skill and high pay. I climb up, cut off some branches, top it and down, no powerlines, houses, cars etc.. I work 61/2 hour days, thats the most ever and come home, $275/day. If someone does utility and cares a lot about proper tree care its a conflict always, pretty hard to do it, I see your point. As far as higher skill in good res. yeah, I guess so, especially spurless, it looks pretty hard. There have been some pretty tough trees I cut down in utility as well. I miss the rush, kind of hate to say it, freeclimbing, bouncing stuff off the primary, fast cutting tops that brush the primary, blowing off big tops to see if I could do it, and so on. Now I never freeclimb, put my brake on when I'm not using my saw, use a split tail in case of emergencies, all my new bosses ideas. Thanks for your talk, something to continue to think about.


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## begleytree (Feb 21, 2006)

Clearance, I posted that because you remind me of me not so long ago. If anything I post inspires thought, I am very pleased.
I'm sure I've seen a lot, but most likely not all. though I've wondered sometimes.... 
I sometimes miss the antics you describe, guess it is a small world after all, huh?
-Ralph


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## BigJohn (Feb 22, 2006)

No need for the steel flip lines unless your the careless type and affraid of falling. Stick something fancy looking in a nice color that compliments your saddle. 12 feet entirely way to long for everyday work. Shorten to 6 or 9 feet. Make another one up for the big trees at 20 feet long. Happy cutting.


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## xtremetrees (Feb 22, 2006)

Thats BOLONGA cowboy!
You rope some big logs everyday on a 16 strand and you just asking to cut your rope with your riggin line. I vee rigging lines smoke right thru a pole utilities pole strap.


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## skwerl (Feb 22, 2006)

xtremetrees said:


> Thats BOLONGA cowboy!
> You rope some big logs everyday on a 16 strand and you just asking to cut your rope with your riggin line. I vee rigging lines smoke right thru a pole utilities pole strap.


Dunno about you, but I don't rope big logs every day. In fact I rope big logs very infrequently, perhaps a couple times per year. 99% of my 'rigging' is roping off small limbs weighing less than 100-150 lbs per cut. 

Back when I ran a crew as the 'big tree removal team', we utilized a crane on most jobs requiring rigging of big wood. I only rig heavy loads by rope when absolutely necessary. I'm not sure if I'd want to work with someone so unresourceful that they needed to 'rope big wood every day'. 
:greenchainsaw:


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## clearance (Feb 22, 2006)

Ralph thanks............................................................................. Darkstar-I was going to say the best thing about you ran down your mommas leg, but that wouldn't be nice, so lets not be talking about mommas. Ropes-I never ever rig big anything out of the tree I am in, just flirting with disaster. Big John, I can tell you never climb big trees, I do every day and a steelcore is a lot easier to flip than a rope, done it. Never had to cut my rope, ever. Xtreme explain how you came to be cutting your saw lanyard?


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## 1I'dJak (Feb 22, 2006)

in my limited experience i've only used a steel core....i like the weight of it especially using it on rough barked trees...another bonus about them is when deadwooding you can smash of clumps of dead branches and hangers with them, cuz they're heavy (mine has a snap at both ends)... and i won't bs, when i was starting i knicked my scare strap a couple of times...though i blamed it on the dog!


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## Tree Machine (Feb 22, 2006)

I like steel cores. I've been using a rope lanyard (11 mm velocity) for about a year. I want to go back to steelcore, there are advantages I miss.


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## xtremetrees (Feb 23, 2006)

Like the time that log stuck to my saw bro. If the bar hadnt bent to a 90 degree angle sence I didnt have my silky I do now thou. Id been plub stuck.
Im going to assume your all knee jerk bombers if youall dont rope logs. Is that correct. Let me guess you rope out fire wood.? You dont do trees ove house?

Sure I dont rope out big logs everyday but when I do my rigging gear lays right over my safety unless i cut a notch in the wood or groove for it to go into or and finally This is what i do put my steel core just under my rigging block, but then I'm stuck there until the weight gets off.

If you knick a steel core the covering will break because thats what the gibbs grabs onto. I had to buy a new one and i barel y nicked it.

Id further say you guys on a rope for your safety this is not the rule. More of them utility workers pole straps than anything I seen.


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## BigJohn (Feb 23, 2006)

Yo clearance, what's a big tree? How would you know what I have done? I never done any redwoods. I put my share of time in removing some pretty big oaks and poplars. 

My **** (notice: using the word **** as a propper noun?) doesnt get hard because I climb a tree with steel flip lines and piece of gear I own strapped to my saddle. I dont need those crutches. You may not understand now perhaps one day if you come full circle you will. Less is more.:monkey:


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## clearance (Feb 23, 2006)

Big John, I have never climbed a redwood either. I often climb red cedar or sitka spruce trees that are 6' or more at the butt, the steelcore is easier to flip. I suppose oak trees have smoother bark. I have a double ended 18' and a 10' steelcore that I climb with. I don't see steelcores as a crutch, spurless guys getting a groundsman to pull them up the tree (not saying you), now that is a crutch.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 23, 2006)

be nice...... we're all friends here.

Hey, ya know one thing that I messed up real bad in creating my rope flipline? I made the eye termination about 6" long. I went out of my way to create the thing so it would go around my waist twice, and clip to my left side, which it does perfectly to length. But, the eye is too long and I lose the last 6" of adjustability.

Also, I have found 11 mm to be too small for the micrograb adjuster. I mean, it grabs fine, but the 11 mm is just a little too small that the micrograb will slide backwards down the line, meaning it will slide down and descend under it's own weight and you have to reach down and pull it back up to your hip to clip in.

Using 13 mm (1/2") stable braid, the rope diameter was too big and required a forceful pushing or pulling to adjust the thing. I only lasted about 4 months with that crap. For whatever reason, a 1/2" steelcore, which you would assume to be the same diameter as 1/2" stable braid, handles the micrograb with precision and predictability.

As far as rope fliplines (and using a Petzl micrograb mechanical adjuster) I think the Fly, in it's 'beyond 11 mm, not quite 12 mm' diameter might be the perfect diameter for a line without a solid (steel) core. I'll try it out, but every day, every time I use the rope flipline (16 MONTHS NOW) I wish back for my dual-swivel snap ended steelcore. The reduction in weight I 'enjoy' these days is not even noticible. I'll take the extra weight of the steelcore and revel in the joy of the steelcore's excellent performance and added security. Mebbe this Summer. I still have a few other ropes to test in this facility, Fly, MK-3, I think I'll skip Blaze and Vector, and the Poison Ivy 12 mm I look forward to using as a flipline.


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## BigJohn (Feb 26, 2006)

Why not shoot a line up in that tree and foot lock. I bet I could footlock up that 6 foot diameter tree quicker than you could flip that steel core line of yours. Makes sense to me. Get to top tie and have someone on the ground tie those spurs on if need be. I wouldnt have the time or patience to watch you ????? foot up that tree.


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## clearance (Feb 26, 2006)

Big John, just one simple question for you big guy, can you spurless climb with caulk boots?


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## hobby climber (Feb 26, 2006)

DFD34's question as I understand it was regarding out preferences between rope & steel core flip lines as well as a "cut-a-way" situation! How this thread got side tracked serves not point to the person asking the question. As some here have mentioned, both rope & steel core have there good & bad points so use both as you see fit. Another member from another post had mentioned that he used a length of Bull Rope as a flip line because its a bit stiffer & durable than regular rope but not as stiff as steel core,(best of both worlds) . He also used a rope adjuster verses a mechanical device. (something to think about). As far as the last part of DFD34's question about having to cut away a flip line to escape a bad situation...don't get yourself into that kinda situation. Learn to read the situation better...it comes with time, no biggie. If your still looking for answers regarding an emergency release situation, go under search and punch in lanyard release or cut a way or emergency release. Just keep in mind that none of these methods are approved by the industry and should be avoided by not allowing yourself to be in need of them in the first place. Be safe and keep asking questions because eventually, you'll get the right answer! HC


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## clearance (Feb 26, 2006)

Hobby, that is a good one about using bull rope, makes sense, back in the old days when the towers were wood and the men were steel, the high rigger used a really thick manilla rope to climb those big spars. Big John, figured it out yet?


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## BigJohn (Feb 26, 2006)

No I aint figured it out yet. Why you need caulks on your boots? I'm just different I guess. I dont need an arsonal of equipment and parade in my honor to get the job done twice as fast as the next guy. Just knowing the quicker I get it done the quicker I can go home do something I really want to do. 

I guess if the situation really calls for steel then use steel. If it doesnt why use it. Why ask questions you know the answer to? Use what ever you want to use your going to anyway. No one here going to change your mind. 

I'd much rather footlock the distance than hook it. Anyone who says differently can't footlock.


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## clearance (Feb 26, 2006)

Big John, you have to wear caulk boots to work in the bush here, it is workers comp. regs. law, also makes good sense. Caulks are like a magnet on steel when waliking on logs, slash. I can't footlock, I got my own opinions on what it looks like, but I have come to have respect for people that do it. Some of the trees I climb would be pretty hard to spurless, maybe some impossible, if I saw someone do it (after they stumbled through the bush in thier funny boots), I would be impressed. If they could do it all day long I would be amazed.


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## 1I'dJak (Feb 26, 2006)

what clearance does regulations say you gotta wear caulk boots...you;re in the forest...if you ain't wearing them your sitting in the truck.... same as steelcore....you gotta...its the rules... same with spurs....you're not gonna foootlock up these trees cuz a) workers comp would send you back to the truck B)the fellas would laugh you back to the truck C) there's no way you'd get a throwline up in these things in any reasonable amount of time or and any safe branch... its just a different scene... its strictly function


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## Tree Machine (Feb 27, 2006)

clearance said:


> Hobby, that is a good one about using bull rope, makes sense


It would _seem_ to make sense, but most bull ropes of today have a rather soft hand, making them essentially the same as a climbing line for a flipline purpose. For example (and I've personally tested both of these as fliplines), 1/2" New England High-Vee vs. 1/2" Stable Braid, pretty much the same. If the diameter between the two is the same, the actual in-use performance is very much the same. You may have a difference in tensile strength, but in a flipline situation, you will never test those outer limits, so the benefit of the extra strength is just mental (and I can respect that).

If you want a stiffer rope flipline, you would be advised to go with static kernmantle, like the stuff they use in vertical caving. That stuff is non-stretch and rock hard. The one from Sherrill is listed as Samson 1/2" static kermantle and is very much the same as the cheaper caving rope, stiff, tight, hard hand. However, it is listed as non-splicable.


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## Stumper (Feb 27, 2006)

clearance said:


> the most respected utility guys in B.C.



Oxy............................................morons!


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## hobby climber (Feb 27, 2006)

*Re: bull rope as flip line...*

Don't quote me but I believe it was MB that had mentioned using a bull rope as a flip line. It was thicker than 1/2" & I think it was Sampson Stable Brade. Using thicker rope was a bit stiffer than 1/2" and flipped better. But yes, Tree Machine, your correct that rope is no match for steel flip lines regarding strength!!! BTW, has anyone heard from DFD34 since starting this post??? Hope we haven't scared him away! HC


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## Tree Machine (Feb 27, 2006)

I was on vacation last month in Florida where I have a saddle rigged and ready down there. I have that one rigged with Stable Braid and I promise you, it's no stiffer than regular 13 mm climbing line, and flips the same, IMO. 

Yesterday I did a little ascent up a 30' limbless trunk, where you hug the tree with the inside of your knees, shins and ankles, do a quick flip with the flipline, 'curl' yourself up, leg hug, repeat. This is when you're too dang lazy to walk over to the truck to get a throwline and the first limb is a bit far for a monkey's fist. Anyway, I used to do that most impressively when I was on wirecore, but yesterday, on rope flipline, I struggled like a whining weenie. The rope would 'roll'. Wirecore doesn't do that. I use that method, also, on limbless stems up top, but I'm gonna probably not do that up high in the tree; not with the current flipline anyway, not above my tie-in point.


DFD34, you still with us?


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## clearance (Feb 27, 2006)

Stumpy, why the mean comment? The guys I am talking about would make you look like a little girl, even if you were allowed to climb around power. Tree Machine-sounds like hard work, is that allowed?, like what if you slipped?


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## Tree Machine (Feb 28, 2006)

Slipping is not good. And it is hard; I don't do it much, usually in crux situations.

I pretty much know all the easy ways around a tree. By mixing up your methods, going for the difficult maneuvers and busting technical moves it keeps you sharp. And entertained. And in shape.

If you always take the easy way, your skills will remain in that box. If I wanted easy, I would be doing something other than tree work.

Same way in mixing up the fliplines. I am a diehard fan of steelcore, though haven't used one in over a year. Why? How am I to know the differences if I don't try out some rope fliplines? Only over time and use can I truly know the finer nuances. Like yesterday doing the Koala crawl up the trunk. I had a really hard time with the rope lanyard. Before going up I _assumed_ it would be the same as using a wirecore, but it wasn't. Wasn't even in the same league. How would I know unless I'd tried? Now, I know not to do that way up high, and not to depend on it in a crux. I'm safer for that.


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## doggonetrees (Feb 28, 2006)

when I was working with the electric company, the only lanyard we used was a pole climbing strap. I had to bring my own lanyards if I wanted one. When I first started with them we didn't even have fall restraint in the bucket. Now on my own, I use a steel core flip line and a three-in-one lanyard. Always tied in with that dude


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## xtremetrees (Feb 28, 2006)

He did this all while hanging upside down running 2 chainsaws


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## Chronic1 (Feb 28, 2006)

I use my old buckstrap or just the climbing line if I feel there is any chance I will have to cut myself free. Thee have been situations where I have my spider knife ready, and ready to bail if I feel I might have to cut loose. It's never happened thank you lord.

So in other words, I've already decided if this tree is risky before I go up, and won't bring along my steel flipline. For me, I will spend as much time as I need to evaluate the tree before I even start the climb, hopefully reducing the chance that the tree will split when I have my steel line around it.


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## hobby climber (Feb 28, 2006)

*Cut away, Break away, Lanyard release ??????*

Under "Search", if you enter (Lanyard release prototype update...), you'll get quite a bit of discussion on this topic. I'll make it easier for everyone, just click here... www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=23617&highlight=lanyard+prototype+update ... enjoy the read. HC


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## clearance (Feb 28, 2006)

Cronic, and others, heres an idea. If you think the tree might split, lash it with a piece of rope, or a chain with a grab hook. I have done it with my other steel core on a codom cedar at about 120', choked her of good, cut of one top.


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## BigJohn (Mar 1, 2006)

Why would you think the tree might split? If you have spars splitting out on you when your cutting your not doing something right.

I may sound like a pain in the ass but I've got real answers. 

Tree Machine, why not take the easy way out? Isn't that what everyone is looking for an easier way, a safer way. 

Some things I do understand, I wouldnt want to ask for ladder when I could footlock sure the ladder is easier on me but it involves asking for a ladder or having to get it yourself.


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## clearance (Mar 1, 2006)

BigJohn said:


> Why would you think the tree might split? If you have spars splitting out on you when your cutting your not doing something right.
> 
> I may sound like a pain in the ass but I've got real answers.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are a pain in the ass, sometimes you do have real answers. I climbed a bigger red cedar that had two tops, I wanted to remove one, I could see the split in the tree about 6ft. down from where the tops started. I had a concern that it would split from the force of the top falling. Does that sound reasonable to you that it be restrained from possibly splitting? The easy way out=spurs.


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