# American Elm?



## maloufstree (Apr 27, 2009)

I have an American Elm in my yard that at the branch unions near the trunk is oozing a brownish orange color. It also oozes out where I cut off a limb and has not tried to compartmentalize at all. This tree has done this for the last 2 years. The tree will fully leaf out every year and then the leaves turn brown and shed within a week or so the tree looks completely dead. Then the tree leafs out again and appears healthy for the rest of the year.(other than the brownish orange oozing STINKING liquid)What happening, and what can I do about it?


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## tomtrees58 (Apr 27, 2009)

older elms are like that no to many here any more tom trees


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## S Mc (Apr 28, 2009)

Do you have pictures? 

Bacterial slime flux, _Erwinia pressuralis_, is very common in elms. Wetwood under pressure causes the oozing. The bacteria causes the terrible smell. 

However, this shouldn't cause the entire tree to defoliate in a couple of weeks after leafing out. Are you sure you are seeing leaves at first?

Elms flower first, which are a greenish/red, produce the fruit, then they produce their leaves. I don't mean to cast doubt on your knowledge, it is just that we are many times called about "dead elms" when they are just loosing their flowers, showing their fruit (which can look brown) prior to leaf emergence. Here they are among the latest to leaf out.

Sylvia


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## S Mc (Apr 28, 2009)

I need to make a correction: Bacterial wetwood in elms is more correctly called _Enterobacter nimipressualis_. They reclassified some of the _Erwinia_. (Sorry)

Elms also have an array of issues such as anthracnose, bacterial leaf scorch, Dutch Elm disease, to name only a very few. What I am not reconciling with is the sudden and quick leaf drop with full refoliation of a healthy-looking tree very quickly.

So am looking forward to photos and more information.

Sylvia


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## maloufstree (May 3, 2009)

Yes for sure the tree has fully leafed out when then leaves turn and shrivel up. In approx. 2 weeks the tree leafs out again w/no dead wood. The tree appears to look healthy for the rest of the year(besides the oozing). Ill get some pics up monday evening. Thanks Craig


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## ATH (May 3, 2009)

I'm gonna guess the 2 are unrelated.

I think some possibilities for the ooze have been described.

For the leaves: I'm gonna throw out my first guess as elm leaf miner.


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## Urban Forester (May 5, 2009)

ATH said:


> For the leaves: I'm gonna throw out my first guess as elm leaf miner.



I think you just knocked it out of the park, on the first pitch... :agree2:


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## S Mc (May 5, 2009)

The first question I would have on the elm leaf miner is are we talking about the elm leaf beetle or a leaf miner such as the locust leafminer?

The miners seem to be more of a summer/fall issue, whereas the elm leaf beetle does appear in the spring. 

However, with the elm leaf beetle completely defoliating a tree in 2 weeks would suggest to me that there is a serious infestation. One that would be visibly noticiable. These beetles will migrate into houses and outbuildings for overwintering. My reference also states that adult feeding will quickly eliminate a refoliation effort. This, apparently, is not happening with the OPs tree, as he states his tree refoliates and is apparently healthy for the rest of the year.

Perhaps a fungal issue? There are numerous fungi that, when the circumstances are favorable, can cause leaf necrosis and defoliation with the tree sending out a new set with no symptoms when the weather is less agreeable to the fungus. 

Looking forward to pictures.

Sylvia


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## treeseer (May 5, 2009)

S Mc said:


> Are you sure you are seeing leaves at first?
> 
> Elms flower first, which are a greenish/red, produce the fruit, then they produce their leaves. I don't mean to cast doubt on your knowledge, it is just that we are many times called about "dead elms" when they are just loosing their flowers, showing their fruit (which can look brown) prior to leaf emergence. Here they are among the latest to leaf out.



Awesome bit of e-diagnosis there, Sylvia!

:rockn:

Gentlemen, your miner is taking a minor role in this case. Miners cannot mine if there is no leaf yet to mine on!



o and tell your proofreader there's only one "o" in losing.
see, there's always something...:bang:


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## Urban Forester (May 5, 2009)

S Mc said:


> The miners seem to be more of a summer/fall issue, whereas the elm leaf beetle does appear in the spring.
> Sylvia



In Michigan (Ohio?) Elm Leaf Miner hits the second week of May, w/a second generation (much less damaging) in mid to late June. I think that's what "ATH" is using as a basis for his guess...
Although Texas is a long way from Michigan or Ohio.


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## maloufstree (May 12, 2009)

Sorry been a little busy. I've tried to put the picks up the last three nights and I give up. Every time I try to upload an attatchment it says its to big and I can't figure out how to make them any smaller:censored:. Any tips or pointers would be great. Thanks


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## S Mc (May 12, 2009)

For posting pictures, what I do is to open my picture in Paint, select Image, then select Stretch/Skew. I then opt for 25% on both size adjustments. Save. 

This reduces the photo to a size the forum will select and yet still be big enough for others to see. 

Good luck.

Sylvia


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## maloufstree (May 12, 2009)

Thanks will try this evevning.


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## treevet (May 13, 2009)

S Mc said:


> For posting pictures, what I do is to open my picture in Paint, select Image, then select Stretch/Skew. I then opt for 25% on both size adjustments. Save.
> 
> This reduces the photo to a size the forum will select and yet still be big enough for others to see.
> 
> ...



I vote elm leaf beetles. Little early for them here but maybe not there. They completely defoliate a 100 foot S. Elm right after full leaf and the next gen. doesn't completely defoliate.

Real reason for response is to thank for reduction info. Finally found out how to do it with your directions.


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## maloufstree (May 18, 2009)

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sorry for the delay but here are the pics after the tree lost its leaves and the revamped


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## maloufstree (May 18, 2009)

One more View attachment 98763


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## treevet (May 18, 2009)

bacterial wetwood not causing defoliation


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## maloufstree (May 18, 2009)

Would any other pics be helpful? What do you do about the bacterial wet wood?


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## S Mc (May 18, 2009)

As stated the bacterial wetwood issue is not causing an entire tree defoliation with leaf reemergence and appearing healthy the rest of the season. So you have a couple of issues here.

We see BWW often on Siberian elms, _Ulmus pumila_, and various species of cottonwoods, _Populus deltoides and trichocarpa_ and sometimes maples, _Acer sp._ 

Drought stress and root injury can exacerbate a wetwood situation. We do not treat these trees other than maintain good cultural practices and proper irrigation. There are differing opinions on whether treatment of any kind is warranted or effective so I will let others with those opinions state their own findings and recommendations. 

I'm still curious as to the leaf defoliation. Have you been able to see any insects? I keep thinking an infestation of this magnitude would be able to be seen or at least leave some physical evidence. Am I wrong, gentlemen?

Sylvia


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## treevet (May 18, 2009)

Elm leaf beetles would leave leaves riddled with holes but a layman may not notice with a brown curled up pile of leaves all over the yard. 

No treatment for Bacterial wetwood nec. We used to install drain pipes to send the wetwood beyond the root crown but the treatment (drilling) was deemed more injurious than the malady.


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## Raymond (May 18, 2009)

Lotta elms do that, I think that's
where the phrase piss elm comes from.


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## treevet (May 18, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Lotta elms do that, I think that's
> where the phrase piss elm comes from.



congrats on 1k posts Raymond.:wave:


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## Raymond (May 19, 2009)

treevet said:


> congrats on 1k posts Raymond.:wave:


Thanks Doc, I didn't even notice.


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