# Tiller Question



## cat-face timber

What tiller do you use?

I might be in the market for a tiller.

I am looking for something that can break my 
Super Hard, Rock Filled dirt.

Not sure if one of those small ones would work.


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## tbow388

*My tiller*

I use a Husqvarna dtr900 it does awesome and has forward and reverse tines. The reverse tines break up the ground really good. I don't know about the durability on them because this is the first season with mine. It has had really good reviews.



If you have some time and patience, start looking for a used Troy Bilt Horse. Those things can break up concrete!!!!!
You can also get different attachments for the PTO.

All in all I think you would be better off finding a old rear tine. Someone here can give you some more models.


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## bowtechmadman

I'd have to agree find a rear tine tiller. I have a 3pt tiller that I use in the fall and spring then use a Stihl small frt tine during the year. Works well for sandy soils not sure how it would do if hard and rocky.


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## JHctRednek

I use a troybuilt horse and agree with others a rear tine is the way to go!! 
We had an old sears front tine when I was a kid and that thing would beat the crap out of you for real tilling, it worked for light tilling like weed control but thats it IMO.


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## ancy

I use a 3-point for spring, fall and for really hard dirt. I use a Troy-Bult Big Red Horse repowered with a 6.5GX Honda for row weeding, tilling small gardens, and planting with the hiller attachment. The one that gets used the most is my Mantis, those things just rock, you can till deep or just lightly weed next to the plant, plus it came with an edger that works awesome. If it was me and didn't have the tractor a Horse and Mantis is a have too, and if I didn't have room for the Horse the Mantis will be easyer on you than a front-tine.


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## Walt41

It is probably worth it to hire up someone with a three point to hit it first, after that a good used horse or pony tiller will work fine. Check out your local TS bulletin board, there is usually two or three guys hiring out tiller work.


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## cat-face timber

Thanks for all the information Gentlemen!


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## woodchuck357

I like BIG front tine tillers. I put one of my flip belts around my hips, clip in to the center of the handle bar, and lean back an let it dig in. After the tines dig all the way down I take a step back, yank the tiller up on new ground and do it again. I just rent so I have tried several rear tine ones and they can't do the job in most of my garden spots until the ground is well dug up.


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## JHctRednek

woodchuck357 said:


> I like BIG front tine tillers. I put one of my flip belts around my hips, clip in to the center of the handle bar, and lean back an let it dig in. After the tines dig all the way down I take a step back, yank the tiller up on new ground and do it again. I just rent so I have tried several rear tine ones and they can't do the job in most of my garden spots until the ground is well dug up.



Are you breaking new ground this way? 
With a rear tine tiller all you have to do is put the drive wheels in neutral and engage the belt (the rear tines will be running only) then hold the machine back till you want to move on to the next spot. I sometimes do this when we are transplanting small bushes (lillocs etc) to break the ground up cause we dont really dig a hole for them. 
I would agree that a rear tine tiller would require two passes to break new ground, but that still seems way easier to me to then what you have described. I still have my granddads old front tine tiller, it wouldn't take much to get it running, I guess I could try it sometime......


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## wampum

This may be old school but when I was younger I made about 60 new gardens for people,and plowed up many repeat customers gardens year after year.My machine of choice back then was a Gravely rotary plow.That thing would chop up large roots and throw a brick out or large stone.One area close to me is well known for its hard rock filled soil.I am not trying to say it did not have its challenges but that gravely plowed 8 inches deep and made the gardens.

One thing is for sure if you hit something you better hang on.That thing could kick like a mule.For about the last dozen or so years I have used a BCS.They are not cheap but I have only replaced tines once in those years with a normal tune up once in awhile. The BCS is a good tiller,I just walk beside it and let it go.The rocks have been long gone from my gardens,so it is easy to run.


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## JHctRednek

wampum said:


> This may be old school but when I was younger I made about 60 new gardens for people,and plowed up many repeat customers gardens year after year.My machine of choice back then was a Gravely rotary plow.That thing would chop up large roots and throw a brick out or large stone.One area close to me is well known for its hard rock filled soil.I am not trying to say it did not have its challenges but that gravely plowed 8 inches deep and made the gardens.
> 
> One thing is for sure if you hit something you better hang on.That thing could kick like a mule.For about the last dozen or so years I have used a BCS.They are not cheap but I have only replaced tines once in those years with a normal tune up once in awhile. The BCS is a good tiller,I just walk beside it and let it go.The rocks have been long gone from my gardens,so it is easy to run.


I didn't know what a bcs was so I looked it up. Looks like a modern day gravely, pretty cool. What attachments do you have for it ? One site showed it with a mini bailer!! Pretty cool


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## RandyMac

I rented a tiller yesterday, spent three hours tearing up old growth turf. The thing was a monster, could pull a fat man through a knothole.
Once I figured out how to run it, it pulverized everything. We don't have rocks here.


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## wampum

JHctRednek said:


> I didn't know what a bcs was so I looked it up. Looks like a modern day gravely, pretty cool. What attachments do you have for it ? One site showed it with a mini bailer!! Pretty cool



Those mini balers are cool but are expensive.I have 2 BCS tillers,I use the large one for tilling the gardens at the beginning of the season.I think it is 32 inches wide.My smaller one I use between the rows during growing season.I got the small one off of Craigslist about 2 weeks before Christmas several years ago. It runs new about $2200.00 new,the guy wanted Christmas money I got it for $600 and it was only a year old.

I watch the auctions for implements,so far I have 2 tillers,a snow plow,mower and cutter bar.To run them you just turn the handle around and put the implements on the front.The machine itself is built like a tank and the Honda engine is easy to get parts and service.If you want a diesel they have that also.


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## Sawyer Rob

I gave up on walk behind tillers many years ago, i use a tractor with a 3 point Howard Rotovator, i have three of them. (industrial tiller)  I also do custom rotovating for others and have been doing so for MANY years.

On new ground, i'd hire someone in with a tractor to till it the first time, and that will get you WAAAAY ahead of the curve!

I have a Troy Bilt "horse", personally i think they are over rated. Years ago, we wore one completely out! This one is in near new shape, because i moved us to a tractor/tiller to replace it. A BCS is a LOT better tiller than a Troy is!

SR


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## ramzilla

Pull a fat man through a knot hole! :hmm3grin2orange: That's funny stuff Randy!
On topic though do some research into the models but the older Troy Bilts were gear driven trans and basically indestructible. I have a Husqvarna CRT 52 and wish I would have researched more first. The Husqvarna tillers are made by AYD along with many others and are chain driven for the tines and tires in the trans. Mine is in a million pieces right now waiting for my new chain to show up. It broke after 3 years of use. So I fired up my little toy Satoh Beaver 4x4 tractor with the tiller on back.


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## Macman125

I cant remember what brand it is but my uncle has a reverse tine rear tine tiller that works awesome. The tines pull backwards on the tiller while the wheels pull it forward. That thing breaks new ground pretty good.


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## Dalmatian90

I rented a Barretto a couple times years ago...beast is an understatement 

If I was breaking up new ground and didn't have someone nearby with a tractor to plow it / 3pt tiller...I'd rent a tiller and beat up the rental place's unit. Unless they're renting a Barretto, in which case it you could till up the tarmac at an airport and it wouldn't care.

I have a Troybilt Junior I got for a good price, but I wouldn't mind a Horse or Pony  

OH JIMMINY CRICKETS...

I just can't squeeze the cash out of the bank at the moment, otherwise I'd be on this one like flies on cowpies -- BCS with tiller and sickle and needing a tune up asking $499:
Bcs tractor ( Italian ) w/ tiller+ sickle bar


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## cat-face timber

You guys are awesome!

Thanks for all the info!


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## Sagetown

cat-face timber said:


> What tiller do you use?
> 
> I might be in the market for a tiller.
> 
> I am looking for something that can break my
> Super Hard, Rock Filled dirt.
> 
> Not sure if one of those small ones would work.



I use an old gear driven Rear Tine Troybuilt Bronco. But I cheat. I begin the season using a tractor and 10' Disk, and finish the season doing the same to turn everything under. The little Bronco keeps the garden looking good for as long as possible.


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## ramzilla

That is basically what I do as well. Plow, disc, till with tractor, maintain with Hasqvarna tiller and then plow and disc it all under in the fall.


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## Genius.

My method is moldboard plow my garden in the spring and then go over it with my neighbors 3 point tiller.

This year I'm planting my garden in 30" rows and am going to borrow Grandpas caultivator. He has a 3 or 4 row one he doesn't use anymore.

If that doesn't work, I might have to break down and buy a tiller.

The last few years when weeds got out if hand and I was to lazy to weed by hand I would go down the rows with round up and a spot sprayer:hmm3grin2orange:

Last year I put a thick layer if straw down between a few rows and that worked extreamly well for weed suppression. The downside, I used alot if straw. I might also do some of that.


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## Duncan C

I like the front tine tillers (FTT ) as my land is on a 18 degree slope..

I just bought a new FTT as I destroyed a MTD / Bolens transmission due to the huge amount of rocks and roots in the land and was happy to see that the MTD / Troy Bilt Colt now has a metal strap supporting the transmission / tine driveshaft although they do not show it in ANY of the photos used by them on their website OR their preferred vendor Lowes. You can see it however if you use the interactive display.

FYI my original MTD / Bolens lasted a long time, wore the tines down to a 45 degree angle due to the rocks, but it was not economical to repair as the transmission was $300 while a new machine was $380.

When I originally bought the FTT I was told that for hard soil I could change out the curved tines for straight ones as they cut into the soil better but I never did since they were expensive, but the tine system on the MTD / Troy Bilt has bolt on parts so it would be much cheaper to do so.


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## Dalmatian90

Was going down to put in a new flower bed...

Noise "That didn't sound good..."

Simultaneous loss of power...

Bleeding oil.



Though a preliminary googling shows as long as I don't need reverse (and I haven't used it in two years since the reverse belt broke), I *should* be able to replace it with a Harbor Freight engine. Won't quite break my HF cherry, but would be the second time I've ever bought from them.


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## bowtechmadman

Genius I've been using grass clippings for keeping the weeds down much like what your doing with straw.


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## Sawyer Rob

bowtechmadman said:


> Genius I've been using grass clippings for keeping the weeds down much like what your doing with straw.


 It's the only way to go! I mulch the gardens in HEAVY, for total weed control,







I do little to NO weeding all season, and then tilling all that mulch in at the end of the season, feeds next years crop!

SR


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## chuckwood

Sawyer Rob said:


> It's the only way to go! I mulch the gardens in HEAVY, for total weed control,
> I do little to NO weeding all season, and then tilling all that mulch in at the end of the season, feeds next years crop!
> SR



I have a mulching setup that is working very well for me. The city dumps free truckloads of leaves for me in the fall, right next to my garden. I have a big garden, and I can and freeze enough for the entire year and have produce left over to give away to friends and family. The leaves are mushed down a bit and damp at spring time, and I use the front end loader on my kubota to fill a 4 by 8 foot trailer that I pull around with an ATV. Before my plants are too tall, I take my ATV/trailer down the rows, straddling the row. I go along I using a pitchfork to spread the leaves everywhere. The process goes fast, and I cover my entire growing area with leaves. Then I'm basically done for the entire season. The leaves cool the soil and keep water from evaporating out, so I do well when there is no rain. The layer is thick enough that no weeds are able to make it through. Weeding chores are minimal and done by hand. By winter time, the leaves are mostly composted and they enrich my soil to point where I don't need fertilizers anymore. I've also noticed that the richer my soil gets, the fewer insect pests I have. Before using this leaf mulching method, I had problems with my 'taters. They got attacked by flea beetles and potato beetles. But now the bugs leave them alone. It doesn't make sense to me, but I've read that insects, like wolves, are attracted to weaker prey, they attack the sick plants and leave the healthy, strong ones alone. I've got three tillers, but I only use them now to prepare the ground just before planting. The Kubota does the plowing in winter, and does the first prep in spring with a disc harrow. I'm having problems with my tillers now because I don't run them enough and the carbs get gummed up. I've learned the hard way *not* to use ethanol gas in small engines.


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## Sawyer Rob

I used to use leaves too, the townies love to bag everything! In the fall, when i was going to town, i'd hook my big trailor behind the truck. Then i'd drive the back streets and fill the trailor and pu with bags of leaves. With them already bagged, it was easy to dump them down the rows the following spring.

I don't have any bug problems either, and it's because of all the mulch and good soil. Then there's the fact that when you put chemical fertilizer on a garden it NEEDS more water. With HEAVY mulch, you use LESS water and did i mention weed control??? 

Last years back garden, all mulched in,





SR


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## farmer steve

bowtechmadman said:


> Genius I've been using grass clippings for keeping the weeds down much like what your doing with straw.



grass clippings are great as long as the lawn hasn't been treated for weeds. i use em whenever i can.


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## Carl Anderson

If you have a decent sized garden and want just one machine get an old Troy Bilt Horse, don't waste your time/money with a new MTD version. Mine is a 1976, got it free from an old friend who didn't want to bother with it after it sat for many years. Got it going ok but then the engine blew. I tossed an off the shelf B&S on it, took all of 40 mins to swap it and I was going slow. It handles rocks ok, and we have plenty of those in New England, just hold on tight when that sucker hits a big rock because it will rocket forward and take off on you or take you with it if you're not ready for it. Great machine though. I slipped after tilling on a rainy day and it drove off my tip up snowmobile trailer. Fell several feet onto its side and was beginning to dig into the asphalt road before I could get to it and shut if off. Probably gave the neighbors a good laugh but it didn't hurt it a bit, still tilling like a beast.


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## chuckwood

Carl Anderson said:


> If you have a decent sized garden and want just one machine get an old Troy Bilt Horse, don't waste your time/money with a new MTD version.



I've got an old Montgomery Wards reverse rear tine tiller that is built like a tank. 8 horse motor, big heavy steel
weight on the front, big tires. I've tried the new tillers and they don't work very well because there is not nearly
as much steel in them, they are too light. For the machine to dig well, it needs weight, otherwise, it will just bounce
around. I read a review on the new Troy Bilt tillers built by MTD, the reviewer said the machine is called the "Bronco", and that's exactly what it does, it jumps and bounces around just like a bucking bronco. The old, original Troy Bilts are completely different from the new MTD ones. I use my old Wards tiller for the first till. Then I follow up with the rear tine Ariens, also an old machine on its second motor, and it's tines till pushing forwards. The Ariens doesn't do well digging deep, but it leaves a smooth surface behind it and then I'm ready for setting seeds in the fine, level soil. 
The Ariens is also built heavy, big, thick steel and gear driven tranny. The only thing that can compete with a new Husky or BCS is one of the old vintage rear tines like an Ariens or an original Troy Bilt.


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## Sawyer Rob

I'd like to see the new Husky or any Troy that could compete with a BCS. BCS is head and shoulders above them! The BCS are just plain a MUCH better design than those two!

BTW, if someone needs an old Troy Horse model that's in GREAT shape, i have one that doesn't have much use on it, that i'd sell...

SR


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## BrettStoner

I have to second, third or fourth the opinions on BCS tractor tillers. I have a 722 with the honda engine and 26" tiller, that thing is a beast. It has almost paid for itself this season already by tilling other folks gardens or whole yards, had some folks that wanted to completely re-do their yards with grass seed. The only annoying thing about the unit is the "safety" lever. It is on the same handlebar as the clutch lever, so one has to hold the safety down with ones palm and pull up on the clutch with ones fingers. An easy fix that I would NOT recommend to those not experienced using a powerful tiller like this is to use a zip tie on the safety to hold it down freeing ones hand up to only have to pull up on the clutch. Of course this little fix does have it's drawback, if one encounters an embedded rock, root, or hard packed clay. It will really dig in and try to take the beast completely out of one's hands as the safety is locked down and won't shut the thing off as designed if it gets out of control. View attachment 296198
View attachment 296197

Before and after shots of a garden I recently did with the BCS. I did make two passes as I wasn't sure what was actually in the ground at this location, I wanted to stay behind the unit until I knew it wasn't going to be yanked out of my hands:eek2:. The second pass ended up only being needed to make it look "pretty" for the homewoner.


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## promac850

Late to the party but a Troy Bilt horse of the vintage when they were owned by Gardenway (late 70's or so and older) is the best bet.

If you're getting pulled all over the garden, you aren't doing it right. Ours (used to be my mom's uncle's) has the original 7 hp Kohler, which burns a little oil but still runs strong. Only thing replaced in our 10 years of ownership was the tines, which I did that. 

When I rebuild the engine, I will also put new tine shaft bearings in as well as seals, and if needed, the bronze drive gear. The tine shaft wobbles a little bit, so I try not to lean on it too much until we get it refreshed.

Strong tiller... if not used properly, it will indeed pull you around or get away from you altogether.


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## Dalmatian90

Gardenway made Troybilt up until 2000 or 2001.


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## Stewardship

I have been using BCS products for 30 years, professionally. The machines are clunky, poorly built and very awkward to use. The company is so inept you would do best to avoid doing any business with them. They don't know their own parts. Their parts distribution is very limited and the cost of the parts is preposterous. I just paid $150 for a mower front caster wheel, and it didn’t even fit! I waited six months for the wheel to arrive. My experience with BCS has been a nightmare.


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## Sawyer Rob

Dalmatian90 said:


> Gardenway made Troybilt up until 2000 or 2001.


 AND that was the last of the good Troys…

I still have one of the older Troys, we hardly used it, and never will, I should get it out and sell it!

As for BCS, lots of folks love them, and some don't, but they still are one of the toughest walk behind tillers built today.

SR


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