# I NEED HELP! in more ways than one



## Slyder

Hello everyone.

I'm new to the board and have a few questions.
I received a few prices on dropping 2 trees and nearly had a heart attack.
Well I found this sight through searches and said to myself.....Self nice place to start. I live in North Central Massachusetts and figured before posting I would look around and check the site out for potential professionals near me.
Well I thought I found one, but when I sent a private message to him. He answered, asked a few question of me, then shut me off. NICE.

Well as you read in the Title (I NEED HELP)

I have a couple of pine trees between 60 and 70' tall.

I went out and purchased some used but in really nice shape spikes (gaffs) and a nice belt with a cheesy lanyard.

I'm going to buy a nice light small saw, a steel cored lanyard, and around a 150' rope to drop these babies myself.

I need pointers on what else I need besides the nutts I already have.

I would ultimately like to have someone close to me give me the opportunity to see a professional at work the ropes and drop a tree.
Kinda like hands on experience.

All comments, pointers and suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks
Slyder


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## Newfie

How did I shut you off? I'm still waiting for replys to the two PM's I sent you.

I'm a little confused.


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## rbtree

Not a good idea to do the trees yourself with no experience. 

Are they out in the open? How close is the nearest valuable structure--building, fence, expensive plant/tree? 
Pines that size can normally be dropped by a pro in 15-60 minutes each. If you're doing the cleanup, you should be able to find a reputable arborist to do the job for $300-500. More if they're not simple. 

Post some pics if you can.


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## computeruser

I wonder how much the quote was for. By the time you buy climbing gear, rope, a saw, etc., that's quite a chunk of change!

I never had a chance to learn to climb trees, so I can appreciate your situation. In a situation like this my inclination would be to pay to have the trees put on the ground and then handle the cleanup myself. If your goal is to learn how to do this, then by all means learn it, but that seems a separate issue from getting your trees removed.


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## Slyder

How did I shut you off? I'm still waiting for replys to the two PM's I sent you.

I'm a little confused


I took the time to explaine myself, went to send it to you and this box popped up saying this person is not accepting private messages. Then I tried to sent it via email and was rejected again.

Sorry
If I came off the wrong way, but I have a hard time trying to word things properly.


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## Slyder

Thanks for your comment TreeCo. 
I'm glad you read my message too.


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## Slyder

rbtree and computeruser

My trees are about 25' form my house on one side and about 25' from powerlines on the other.

My cheapest quote was 2200.00 dollars. Gulp

Do you think this is reasonable or were these go away prices?

I'm not hear to offened anyone just meet some new people and have a beer.
or two or three........


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## alanarbor

Slyder said:


> rbtree and computeruser
> 
> My trees are about 25' form my house on one side and about 25' from powerlines on the other.
> 
> My cheapest quote was 2200.00 dollars. Gulp
> 
> Do you think this is reasonable or were these go away prices?
> 
> I'm not hear to offened anyone just meet some new people and have a beer.
> or two or three........



It's really almost impossible to guess from your description. 2 60-70' tall trees around here removed, chipped, and hauled could easily be that. Almost any time an electrical hazard comes into play the price goes up.

If you got 3 prices in the 2200.00 ball park from reputable local companies, than I would say yes, the price is reasonable.

I respect your bravado, but I would sincerely ask that you not attempt this project on your own. I belive your life and limbs are worth more than $2200.00, never mind the potential for damage to your property.


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## BlueRidgeMark

Timber? Is that you _again_?


:notrolls2:


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## OTG BOSTON

Try going to certifiedtreeandlawn.org. It is a listing of all certified Arborists and Landscrapers in Mass. Get at least three quotes (they are free anyway). You may meet someone who will explain as they remove the trees so you could learn something.
I wouldn't recommend trying this on your own
Worse case scenario you mess up real bad and end up in the hospital, best case scenario you end up drinking beer from a tube.

For those not from around here: Treework in Mass. costs big bucks.


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## Ax-man

Here we go again, another cheap skate homeowner that thinks pro arborists that earn a living in this business should work for next to nothing and the homeowner thinks he is going to cut a fat hog in the ass by buying all the tools, to save a few bucks, just because it is a tree right, nothing to it, how hard can it be, how can it cost so much to cut down a tree is a common question. I just don't understand why people think we are robbing them when it comes to tree work, when it comes down to it we aren't that much more expensive than any other service type business like plumbers , mechanics, but I guess we should work for less because it doesn't take brains or skills or equipment to cut down a tree.

Buying the tools is one thing, knowing how to use them in a tree is another. 

You remind me of the guy I ran into yesterday in the parking lot of the farm store. This gent had one arm, yes one arm, had a tree ready to fall over, got quoted a grand to do the job. He decided it was just too much to pay, started looking for gear on the internet, found out it was going to cost almost as much for the gear as the tree was going to cost. The one armed man asked me after seeing my truck with our logo if I would sell him any used spare gear, cheap of course, I wasn't about to do that, guy gets hurt that makes me an enabler, don't want any part of that. 

Do a search here on the site, all the info you need is right here. If you can wade through all the nonsense posting that goes on, you will find what you need to know.

Larry


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## diltree

*Who gave you the Price*

If you tell me what outfits gave you the price, I can tell you if they are low or competitive just by their reputation and bidding against them....I am pretty familiar with our competition in central mass. I would be glad to give you a price on the work personally, but i must warn you we may be even higher, as many companies in central mass are fly by night operations, we are a professional company, fully insured, with 48 years of experience. The difference: with us you know you will get what you pay for, with some others your rolling the dice....but probably not as serious of a wager as doing the job yourself.


www.dillontree.com


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## beowulf343

Ax-man, I agree with you 100 percent. I am so tired of getting done with a tree and the homeowner telling me,"that looked easy-I should have done it myself instead of paying you guys to do it." People seem to think we are a bunch of overpaid laborers instead of highly skilled professionals! 
Sorry-just venting.


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## rbtree

We need pics. I assume those quotes for for cleanup, maybe wood removal as well. If you only want them dropped, maybe bucked up, that is much less work. 

But, if these are pines, which often are not brushy, and have never been topped, then I stand by my guess that it would take no more than one hour to put each on the ground. My price would be about $180 per hr for a two man crew, minimum $200. Figure 1/2 hour travel, so under $500. As I said, more if they require branch lowering. And maybe $50 to buck each into firewood. 25 feet from the house and pwr lines is plenty if they're really only 70 feet tall. What diameter are they at a foot above ground level?

If these companies are reputable, then they must be complex, dense, multi leadered trees. Then, that price would be fair if it included cleanup and maybe stump grinding. Also, my guess is, prices may be higher there than here, where most reputable companies charge about 70-90 per manhour.


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## Jack Green

Slyder said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm new to the board and have a few questions.
> I received a few prices on dropping 2 trees and nearly had a heart attack.
> Well I found this sight through searches and said to myself.....Self nice place to start. I live in North Central Massachusetts and figured before posting I would look around and check the site out for potential professionals near me.
> Well I thought I found one, but when I sent a private message to him. He answered, asked a few question of me, then shut me off. NICE.
> 
> Well as you read in the Title (I NEED HELP)
> 
> I have a couple of pine trees between 60 and 70' tall.
> 
> I went out and purchased some used but in really nice shape spikes (gaffs) and a nice belt with a cheesy lanyard.
> 
> I'm going to buy a nice light small saw, a steel cored lanyard, and around a 150' rope to drop these babies myself.
> 
> I need pointers on what else I need besides the nutts I already have.
> 
> I would ultimately like to have someone close to me give me the opportunity to see a professional at work the ropes and drop a tree.
> Kinda like hands on experience.
> 
> All comments, pointers and suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Slyder


 Dear Slyder If you insist on "dropping these babies" yourself , first make sure all your affairs are in order then eat a hearty breakfast , any thing you fancy it could be your last ! . Then fill your pockets full of rabbits feet four leafed clovers or any thing at all that you might consider a "lucky charm" because your going to need all the luck you can get . Say a silent prayer to who ever is your god , clench yer butt cheek's strap on them second hand spikes and boogie till you puke ! . Have fun umpkin2:


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## Slyder

May I ask how everyone started?
Noboby starts out knowing how to do everything.
When I received prices like this of course I said I'll do it myself.
I am a homeowner that wants to cut my own trees because I have a family to support as well I'm sure some of you have also.
That amount of money I could use for paying my fuel bill for this coming winter.


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## Slyder

I would like to post a couple of pictures.
Is it easy?


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## rbtree

I started 32 years ago, when training opportunities weren't as good as today. I probably started climbing too soon, but had already done lots of pruning with the landscape firm I was with, for a few years before I worked for a tree service, and rock and mt climbed and skiied. Not all are naturals as I was. But if i had it to do over, I'd take a proper training course, or learn on the ground working for a company with qualified trained arborists. No one who has never worked with saws should run one aloft. First, you need to learn to climb with rope and saddle, get comfortable, then use a handsaw...much later, strap on climbing gaffs, and operate a saw. Saw experience needs to be learned on the ground. The only way to learn how to make cuts, how wood reacts, how to judge which way a tree part being cut will fall, etc, etc, is to learn from watching trained arborists doing the work. 

I repeat, post some pics. If these are simple single trunked trees, no taller than you say, never topped, and all you want is them dropped, those prices are way out of line.


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## Jack Green

Dear Slyder i mean no disrespect to you but beleive me if you've got trees that close to both power lines and your property it really is a job for a profesional . you say you have a family to support , i can relate to that but to support them you got to be there don't take such a blatant risk . regards


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## rbtree

Slyder said:


> I would like to post a couple of pictures.
> Is it easy?



Yep, just resize them 60-200 kb, and click on manage attachments. Find them on your computer, and click on them. You can post 3-4 at a time. If they're bigger, go ahead, I'll resize them for ya. Make sure they're focused....

I just did two pines for a good customer. We were in and out in 40 minutes. One was a 12" dbh60 feet tall stone dead, 25 feet from the house, but near another tree. so we suspended it off another tree, setting our lines from the ground, and butt cut it. The other was also 60-70 feet, and 18-20 inch dbh. both young, easy western white pine. $200. 5 minutes travel time from my other jobs. no haul, no buck. Most are not that quick and easy. Plus I don't need to make a special trip to give estimates for good customers. Would have charged $300 otherwise. That would still be $130 per hr, for 3 of us....


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## rbtree

Jack Green said:


> Dear Slyder i mean no disrespect to you but beleive me if you've got trees that close to both power lines and your property it really is a job for a profesional . you say you have a family to support , i can relate to that but to support them you got to be there don't take such a blatant risk . regards



Right Jack, 25 feet is a lot of room, but for a pro, not a raw rookie....


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## Slyder

I just took some.
I will save them to my computer first and then try to post.
bear with me.


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## rbtree

This pine was $3000 or so, but it had a major failure, was old, dense, and the top went over the primaries. And we hauled everything. Highly technical.


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## Slyder

Ok I have them on my computer.
Do I put them on your picture site?
I don't get it.


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## Slyder

I think I just seen what you ment.


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## Slyder

Here they are


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## rbtree

This job was removing two 60-70 foot young hemlock and thinning a cedar, all for someone's view who lived above. $900 or so, we chipped and left the chips, bucked the wood....3 hours..that's $100 per manhr....I'll take that any day of the year.

The third pic is Travis creating a habitat snag, using my new piped Dolmar, which meant he was the second guy ever, after me, to do such a crazy stunt aloft.


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## Slyder

and two more.


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## rbtree

You definitely shouldn't be doing those yourself. They look maybe 85-100 feet, branches kind of long, no drop zone on the one, better on the other. All long branches will need to be lowered on the one tree, maybe not on the other, plus the top will be need to be lowered on one if not both.

Not a lot of room to stage branches on the one in the tighter of the two spots. But still could be done as a no haul. 

Still a bit hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like a 3 hour job for three men.... I'd charge about $8-900, or $11-1400 with cleanup-- or a bit more. No wood hauling. If I'm envisioning the job correctly, $2200 is robbery, they look to be relatively straightforward--but only for professionals. 

Hire it out.


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## Slyder

Thanks,
I knew this site would help.


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## rbtree

Here's one pic, rotated, cropped some, enhanced for color and exposure, and sharpened.

I see the effects of that 10 or so inches of rain you guys were just deluged with.... Can you move the dog kennel? That would make that tree easier.

I assume a truck could be parked on that road. That job looks like it would take 2.5-4 hours for a crew of 3, including cleanup and wood cutting, if the kennel is moved. There appears to be room to drop a 30 foot top and 6-12 foot lengths plus the last 30 feet on the far tree.... it is a slam dunk. A good crew could have it down and chipped in 45 minutes, if i'm seeing it right. The other tree is harder. Needs lowering some limbs and the top, prolly. You keep the chips and save some $.....


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## Slyder

you really think there 85 - 100' ?
thanks for fixing that picture


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## rbtree

Is your house two stories? That's maybe 25 plus feet, They look to be 4 times that high.....your shed is about 10..so the first branch starts at 40ish....


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## Slyder

Yes, house is a two story colonial.


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## Slyder

TreeCo.
i can take and give sh*t with the best of them.
i just like to do things myself, learn, save money, and get new toys, IE. tools
I cut my own wood for heat. I own 4 chainsaws........please don't laugh
A homelite 1050 automatic.... what a beast.
A shindaiwa 695 professional
A Olympic.... some Italian saw great cutter though.
and last but not least a Poulan of some sort.

I want to buy a nice Stihl or Husky.
Any suggestions or comments on the better of the two.

thanks

Honey can you get me a beer! Please.


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## Slyder

I put up a few pictures of the trees did you guys happen to see them.
Just trying to show what I'm up against.


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## rbtree

So at least you have saw experience.....I see you're a contractor....doing what?

See if newfie will come do the job, while you run the ground.


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## Slyder

Well I am a liscensed Contractor for New Construction and Remodeling. 
This is my part time job on the side.
I have a full time job to pay the bills and keep my family happy.
I'm hoping he'll come over and give me a good price.
I have a tools that might come in handy.
We'll see.


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## rbtree

Some nice saws!!! A Homie 1050, what a beast it is, yes! I have a Shinny 488...have wanted an Efco 962C (Olympyk) for some time.....and used to run Poulan S 25's, back when they were the most popular climb saw.


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## Slyder

Holy Sh*t, Can I have that wood?
Yes, the 1050 you better have ear muffs on. It's loud and fast.
What is a Shinny 488? Is it a Shindaiwa?
Yeah that's how you spell that Olympyk I have. The outside clutch cover where the safty brake connects is worn out and you have to position it just right and it will rip right along.
What size bars are on those?


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## johnstr1

*Slyder needs help*

Hi Slyder,

at the risk of offending you, I would urge you to reconsider doing the job yourself. Just buying the gear to do the job isn't enough, nor is watching a professional at work. You might get some idea of what you need to do, but every tree and every species is different and a little knowledge can be dangerous. 60 to 70 foot trees may not seem too big....until you're up there. and if it goes wrong it could be more than your pocket that get's hurt.

Try shopping around, I know here in the UK the prices vary wildly and "down south" from me I was amazed at quotes for £2000 per tree for stuff I charge in the hundreds. There will be someone reasonable out there. If not, pay my air fare and I'll do it for you, lol

regards,

TJ


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## diltree

RB....I feel Bad For you: so talented; yet so underpaid( Jk..we just make more in Mass).......$2000k for those trees is a Low price; not only are they tall White pines over a shed and power lines but if you don't mill the pine( which very few companies in MA do) then the contractor needs to get rid of the pine logs. Like I said we will gladly give you a quote if you wish to bring in a professional. Good luck!!


www.dillontree.com


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## rbtree

Slyder said:


> Holy Sh*t, Can I have that wood?
> Yes, the 1050 you better have ear muffs on. It's loud and fast.
> What is a Shinny 488? Is it a Shindaiwa?
> Yeah that's how you spell that Olympyk I have. The outside clutch cover where the safty brake connects is worn out and you have to position it just right and it will rip right along.
> What size bars are on those?



That was almost 4 years ago....

The two 372's run 20-32 inch bars, the 3120 is ported, puts out a generous 13 hp, and is only used for big stuff. I run a 42 inch bar on it, with rare use of a 60". The green saw is a Craftsman branded Solo 651, also fully woods ported... a 3 cube ripper that I want to sell. It cuts about like the next size up Stihl or Husky, if they are stock. I want $250 or so for it, have over $400 in it...The little fella is a 335 Husky 335 XPT, my climb saw of choice, cause I'm an oddball. Most folks prefer the Stihl MS200, which is a great saw, but pricey at about $500.

Here's Travis, checking out my hinge on a 4 foot butted lombardy poplar. The other orange saw is a PS7900 Dolmar, sporting a 32 inch bar, and, also modded to the 9 hp range.. give or take a few hundred....






and one of me felling the monster, with the 42 inch equipped 3120 buried....


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## rbtree

diltree said:


> RB....I feel Bad For you: so talented; yet so underpaid( Jk..we just make more in Mass).......$2000k for those trees is a Low price; not only are they tall White pines over a shed and power lines but if you don't mill the pine( which very few companies in MA do) then the contractor needs to get rid of the pine logs. Like I said we will gladly give you a quote if you wish to bring in a professional. Good luck!!
> 
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com



Maybe, dil....but he'd burn the wood...and those trees are miniscule compared to most of our conifers, and a slam dunk to boot.....we could prolly do 6 to 8 that size and in that location in a day. 

You couldn't use any of your awesome equipment on that job....just a chipper and a climber not afraid of tall trees..... 

Wish I could pull down $4000-6000 a day for a crew of three doing cake work like that..
Great website, pics, and music, by the way.


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## Ax-man

Nice site you have there Diltree, I was being nosy for the future when we might put one together. I like the " Clock " music, one of my favorites, always stop to listen to that one, who are the artists for that one???

How do you get out of your site??? no X was at the top right of the page, at least on my puter their wasn't, had to reboot.

Slyder, those pines are a pro job all the way down to the last cut. 

Larry


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## diltree

Rb...white pine does not burn very well, and it looks like I could park my Terex in the road and pic those pines apart in no time at all, with 127 feet of boom it wouldn't be a problem, But I know you guys have us beat with the monster conifers you take down. Thanks for the compliments on the site, I love the song "clocks" and for some reason it reminds me of tree removal, and I'm not sure why there was no X to close out the site...there is when i visit. One thing we can all agree on is even though we all like spydr...he has no business attempting to do these trees.......

www.dillontree.com


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## diltree

Oh Ax...clocks is by Coldplay...Killer Band, you can pick up the album "Rush of blood to the head" and clocks as well as many other great tunes will be on there


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## Slyder

do you guys give free quotes?
i know i'll probably pay later for the free quote when i pay to have it done.
thanks guys


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## rbtree

Here's a bunch of videos from a very tough job we just finished. Excuse the 2 vids of an arborist bud skiing....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8141857149282297361

And one of a 57 foot top being taken from 95 feet up. The tree scaled out at 1700 board feet. We got 3800 board feet from 4 trees, had a crane bill of $300 to get a couple out. The log truck skidded this big fir around the house corner, using that cedar butt for a fulcrum. The cedar butt split when i dropped it, still got over $400 for it, a 20 footer. The customer was charged $1200 for the 1.75 day job, as I'll net another $2100 on the wood.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2671708962784596849&pl=true


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## diltree

Free Estimates.....call the office..we will send someone down

www.dillontree.com


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## Ax-man

Thanks Dil,

Even though this song is from my daughters era so to speak,she didn't know who recorded it. I always appeciate good music, it will be a classic that is going to be around for a long time. I will be tracking this CD down for sure.

Larry


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## diltree

Rb.....Nice work man...you guys are a good company for sure......did you sleeve the wires when you made those pics around the single phase????


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## clearance

RB has done a lot to help you, don't climb those trees yourself. I climb big trees in the bush at work, yesterday I did a no cleanup res. job for my boss. It was four alders in front of a house about 40'-50' tall and a couple of small ones and a couple about 40'-50' on the side of the house, powerlines on the other side of the street. The guy had agreed to pay my boss a day (61/2 hours), I had them all pounded with over two hours left so I cut down more alders for him, including one that was a little tough cause I had to hold and muscle big branches. My point, when I first started climbing I was scared, any one who says they were not is lying, I was legs shaking scared. When I started I would have probably only been able to do a few of them, might have ripped down the service wires and damaged the house. It looks like anyone can do it, its not, pay someone and watch.


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## rbtree

diltree said:


> Rb...white pine does not burn very well, and it looks like I could park my Terex in the road and pic those pines apart in no time at all, with 127 feet of boom it wouldn't be a problem, But I know you guys have us beat with the monster conifers you take down. Thanks for the compliments on the site, I love the song "clocks" and for some reason it reminds me of tree removal, and I'm not sure why there was no X to close out the site...there is when i visit. One thing we can all agree on is even though we all like spydr...he has no business attempting to do these trees.......
> 
> www.dillontree.com



How? I assume those are primaries out there? Think you could keep the boom and load min 10 feet clear the whole time?

White pine burns very well, it just burns up quick.

I may have a job coming up where I need a 210 tonner with at least his 197 feet of main boom, if not more. Two more lombardy poplar, above a house, on a hill, landslide next to them and up against the house. 90 feet max reach needed, 150-170 feet from the road up to the tree tops. The pic has the two trees outlined...


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## treeseer

Once again I agree with my good friend clearance. those are not trees to learn on!

PS my legs still shake sometimes.:blush: But not for long; then my spine shivers, which is a good thing.


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## clearance

diltree said:


> Rb.....Nice work man...you guys are a good company for sure......did you sleeve the wires when you made those pics around the single phase????


RB is good at trees, maybe he is lineman as well? Single phase is more fun, you can bounce stuff of it all day unlike a three phase. Oh, no, you are never to hit a line with vegetation and the sexist term lineman is not pc, the correct term is powerline technician. RB, do you guys have the utility put the line onto single shot when you are close to power?


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## diltree

Rb...thats what I meant...white pine is worthless firewood, camp fire stuff.....and if i couldn't get my load line away from the primary more then ten feet, i would call mass electric and have them sleeve the primary the day before we used the crane to take apart those pines.....but we have a 78' aerial lift of conn bucket that would serve as more then enough reach to top those pines out from the road...so the crane would really just be a luxury...either way we have those down within the hour........as I'm sure you would as well ( we would be just a step ahead with the fancy equipment)


www.dillontree.com


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## diltree

rb...the most we have used is a 100 ton crane...good luck on the job with the 210 ton....take some pics 


www.dillontree.com


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## rbtree

diltree said:


> Rb.....Nice work man...you guys are a good company for sure......did you sleeve the wires when you made those pics around the single phase????


Out here, they're not much into doing anything to make the job easier for us, besides giving us 10 feet clearance.
That pine was dicey, for sure. Being a partly failed tree, I decided to just do the danged thing right away. We kept 10 foot clearance, except for that top, which was still 10 feet away when we stopped it. I was going to speed line it away from the wires, but didn't want additional stress on that wickedly crazy top I was in. So, we lowered it straight down, very carefully. It wasn't kosher, that's for sure....


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## rbtree

diltree said:


> Rb...thats what I meant...white pine is worthless firewood, camp fire stuff.....and if i couldn't get my load line away from the primary more then ten feet, i would call mass electric and have them sleeve the primary the day before we used the crane to take apart those pines.....but we have a 78' aerial lift of conn bucket that would serve as more then enough reach to top those pines out from the road...so the crane would really just be a luxury...either way we have those down within the hour........as I'm sure you would as well ( we would be just a step ahead with the fancy equipment)
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com



That's cool, but why bother with a crane or bucket when the easy tree is a 15-40 minute job, and the other an hour or a tad more if the kennel is moved? He burns a lot of wood, the pine won't make the house colder.....I see no reason why the customer should pay extra for craneand bucket on a relatively straghtforward job like that..... 

And, if the crane is just a luxury, how would you reach the tops from 25-35 feet away with the bucket. They are at least 85, maybe 100 feet tall.


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## diltree

False crotch....or maybe we could jump the head into the road, or maybe we would have to climb out of the bucket....not sure...but we get 100% of roadside trees down with our 78' aerial lift...we service several municipals and no matter what size the tree they bring us too we get it to the ground.......... an elevator is a wonderful thing


www.dillontree.com


www.aeriallift.com


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## rbtree

clearance, as far as I know, pwr co's out here won't normally sleeve wires. Also, I know of no tree service that is non union, and doesn't have a line clearance contract, that is certified to get within 10 feet (min) of wires... 

I lost a job last winter to Asplundh. They were able to do the job for 2/3 my bid. It was a 30 degree leaning dead madrona, the tips just reached the plane of the primaries. I would have used the GRCS and Hobbs to work everything back off a high tie in a well placed fir. Much safer with a bucket.

Speaking of scared, that I was in that pine....I also recall a beginner embarrassing episode, over 30 years ago. I had climbed 60 feet up a tall fir, when my saw chain came off. Darrel had the only rope...this must have been before I got my own lifeline....So, I was uncomfortable climbing down, so I convinced him to bring me up a rope. Of course, this was also many years before I used my first throw line and pouch......I think I had to wait till he was out of the tree he was in....


----------



## rbtree

diltree said:


> False crotch....or maybe we could jump the head into the road,
> 
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com
> 
> 
> www.aeriallift.com



No false crotch needed on the easy one.....And on easy conifers, i usually just use cheap half inch line and natural crotch rig the tops. Saves time...or a quick to rig light pulley as the top wouldn't weigh but 100-200 lb.

You'd jump a top 25 feet over wires? This I gotta see!

We have little need for bucket trucks out here, most trees are too tall, or back yard, or limited access. So, I'm not in the market, but an elevator equipped unit would be awesome for sure!


----------



## diltree

If there is a crane involved I think osha requires the Provider to sleeve the wires apon request......Although we are Line Clearance Certified and service a couple municipal light Dept's...we would not use our crane within 10 ft of the wires without them being sleeved...thats just asking for trouble


www.dillontree.com


----------



## diltree

Rb...the tops of those pines weigh way more then 100-200 lbs...trust me I run a crane with a load line evrey day.....unless you are natural crotching 5 feet of top


----------



## rbtree

diltree said:


> Rb...the tops of those pines weigh way more then 100-200 lbs...trust me I run a crane with a load line evrey day.....unless you are natural crotching 5 feet of top



That's you...I take small tops when it makes sense....and the top 15-20 feet of the tighter spot tree would be about that....maybe our faster growing western white is a bit lighter....but those tops are sparse, like the entire canopies of the trees, unlike many dense canopied pine or our douglas fir.


----------



## Slyder

Nite people,
I have to go work in the morning.


----------



## diltree

on a second look...your right there is no way you are jumping those out...way too far away....so I'm gonna stick with the crane, with the bucket....fastest and safest way, and when you own the equipment the cheapest as well as your of to the next job quick.

www.dillontree.com


----------



## diltree

some more white pine


----------



## rbtree

Yikes...where's the fall protection on the bucketeer?

Love the chaps on the fella toting the saw, ready to limb that top. 

Course I can't talk, being as I don't wear chaps that often.

We did this 100 foot 40 inch dbh pine in 3 pics--except for the 12 foot habitat snag we left. This was the first job we did with Mike's new 23 ton truck mount..104 feet of reach, not bad.....he's is dirt cheap compared to the big crane companies. Whenever we can get relatively close, he is our man! But we also did a small fir in two picks, that was 70 feet away and between two houses! It was maybe 65 feet tall, and dead, and weighed maybe 2500 lb total.


----------



## rbtree

Next job that day was a nice black walnut that the customer had tired of, close to the house with limbs way over the roof.

Scott came up to help me, then finished it off while I manned the camera. This was his first time craning, and he didnt take the time to put on his gaffs for the lower part where they were surely needed. We all had a laugh afterwards!


----------



## diltree

The guy without the chaps is an ex-marine recon guy: you try to get him too where chaps......And the guy in the bucket for that pick knows no laws for safety(just jokeing but sometimes i wonder)....hes 69 years old...hes my Dad, and you try to get him to come down and put on climbing gear for one sling...he certainly doesnt listen me...nice pics rb


----------



## db_010

Slyder,

First let me say that these guys are absolutely right - IT'S NOT WORTH GETTING HURT!!!! The way I see it, your biggest problem is not having enough experience and knowledge to recognize the hazards that are right in front of you. If you're a smart guy, you can probably figure out how to solve the problems and get the trees down, but overlooking a problem or danger could flat out kill you. Seriously, you could easily make a mistake that would leave you dead. Think hard about that before deciding to do it yourself. Nobody can judge you well enough over an internet forum to know if you’re capable of doing this or not. 

That said, I was in your situation a few years ago. I got the quotes, figured I could find better things to spend the money on, liked the challenge of doing it myself, more tools / toys are always welcome, etc. I think I did just fine, and I continue to do tree work including climbing for family and friends. 

It's a tough call by looking at those pictures, but I think you may have options if you decide you want to do it yourself. You're a remodeling contractor, right? Well, I'd say that doesn't look like a $2200 shed, so maybe if you do it yourself and wind up damaging the shed that's not such a big deal. You can fix it yourself and probably for much less than $2200. I don't mean to say that damaging the shed is a legitimate option, just making a point that a DIY'er has a different perspective from a professional tree guy. Now for a reasonable option - can you move the shed? It looks relatively small and appears to be on blocks. Maybe screw a couple 4x4's under it to use as skids, and pull it 15' towards the road. If you can move the shed, the dog cage, and the gas tank, then would it be possible to fell the whole tree parallel to the road or maybe what I'm guessing would be across the dirt driveway and into the side yard? There are a lot of different ways to look at it if your main goal is to get the trees down, learn something new, and have a little fun doing it. (Some folks on this site don't like it when "hacks" like me call fun an objective of tree work, but hey – it’s fun to me.) What are you going to do with the wood? That’s a lot of wood for the average person to dispose of, but maybe you’re going to burn it or have a connection to get rid of it. (Bobcat, dump truck and a place to dump it?) Are the power lines on your side of the road, or the other side of the road? Is that a busier road than it looks, or a rarely traveled road? Warning / stopping drivers should be an absolute must if there’s any chance of something winding up in the road. Safety of everyone around from yourself to people who might wander by should be your biggest concern when trying to figure out how to do something like this yourself. Hire somebody to do it, and it’s all their problem. 

If you’re not too far away from northeastern CT, I might be willing to help. If you want to post more pics, I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be willing to keep trying to come up with ideas. Actually, you seem to be getting a friendlier and more constructive response than I’m used to seeing on this site. Maybe somebody will come up with a solution that’s reasonable & safe for you. Could you move the shed and drop them next to the house? How ‘bout a pic from far to better show the height of the trees compared to the house? I’m wondering if your pics are deceiving and making the trees look taller than they are. Pics of potential drop zones? Even if it has to be climbed, moving the shed, dog cage, and gas tank would eliminate the need to do any rigging.

Sorry for the long post, I guess I just wish there was a better way for guys like you and me to find help getting started. Looking back, I consider myself lucky to have survived my self learning process thus far. I may be way out of line here, but I’d guess that some of these professionals feel similarly about the way they learned, and that’s why they’re so tough about giving advice to people who want to do it themselves.

Don


----------



## Slyder

Hi

Great post, very well spoken and taken.
I will take a few more pictures tonight and post.
The road behind me is traveled but very rarely, a few residents live on the road. I could put up a few caution cones and it would be fine.
There maybe in the course of one day 15 cars.

As far as moving things not a problem, I have a Bobcat, Backhoe and Dump Truck

The trees I can cut up and give away to the residents as campfire wood, they'd be happier than pigs in you know what.

The only concern would be the propane tank.

Thanks


----------



## jmack

Slyder said:


> May I ask how everyone started?
> Noboby starts out knowing how to do everything.
> When I received prices like this of course I said I'll do it myself.
> I am a homeowner that wants to cut my own trees because I have a family to support as well I'm sure some of you have also.
> That amount of money I could use for paying my fuel bill for this coming winter.


everyone who got started dragged brush and humped heavy logs including pine before they climbed if they could, then after small prunes and large prunes they would move to removals not hairy ones like your talking about rookie staus is for like 3 years anyway, mass is serious tree state and you got quotes and they sound real, hire a pro and cut up the cheesy lanyard cause thats what will be holding you up, btw have a beer while you watch and think to yourself how precious yourlife is then offer a cold one to da crew


----------



## Slyder

Heres some of the new pictures just taken


----------



## woodchux

Please ask yourself these questions...

If you were paralyzed from the neck down would it be worth $2,200 to get your movement back ????

If you were STONE COLD DEAD , would your wife and kids pay $2,200 to get you back ????

Sure you could MAYBE do it, But what if something happens.

Dude it's just money, don't "F" around. Experienced climbers with many years under their belt DIE frequently in this industry. 

One little oversight YOUR DEAD !!!
Why risk it ?


----------



## Kate Butler

*bad luck?*

Do you have life insurance? If not, get some before you attempt this. If yes, double it NOW!! Then take pictures - we all want to see 'em go down. Hopefully, with you being intact at the end of the process.


----------



## Trinity Honoria

woodchux said:


> Please ask yourself these questions...
> 
> If you were STONE COLD DEAD , would your wife and kids pay $2,200 to get you back ????



she might not want him back if he was foolish enough to do this...

and in your first post you mentioned you have nutz... i hope you have surmised from the responses that you are considered big-time nuts, not in possession of big cojones... 

just thoughts from a woman...


----------



## rbtree

The new pics make them look even easier....maybe only 70-80 feet tall as well. I'm sure you'll get a good deal from newfie, especially if they do it as a down only...whether you move the shed or not....

Stay smart, safe, and rooted to the ground, ya hear!


----------



## db_010

Sure looks like they could both be dropped whole behond the house if the shed & propane tank were moved. The drop zone is obviously not wide open there for a rookie, but hopefully is plenty big enough in the eyes of a pro. Maybe you move the shed & propane, hire a pro to drop the two trees behind the house, then he goes home and you take it from there. I would think that would drop the price low enough to make it worth avoiding the risk all together. You might even get a pretty cheap price by moving the shed, propane, and dog cage, then hiring the pro to climb and take them down. Eliminating the need to rig anything and hiring him only to get it to the ground should be pretty cheap.
It's worth exploring those options to see where they get you.


----------



## rbtree

Here's a fir we did today, total manhours from the time we left the shop was barely 4...$490= means I'm happy camper. It was 90 feet tall, but only 20 inches at 10 feet up. Next to a fence, and 10 feet to the garage. But, small branches meant Ian hand dropped them all. We only had to lower the top. 4 yards of chips or so...slam dunk. I'm mighty happy with $125 per manhr....diltree, I'd say that 20 foot top was 225 lb max, I handled it with a 3/4 trunk wrap, and fired 3 shots with the my new motor driven Canon 1DMark2 as it was starting over.....I was playing around with slow shutter speeds to blur the action.....

My guess is, slyder's pines have at most 8-10 yards of chips. They're very sparse.. an easy job even if the shed is not moved. (Shed offers some shielding for the propane tank, which might be hard to move.) But he's already said he'll do the cleanup and buck the wood.


----------



## rbtree

Here's the top going over.


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## rbtree

Here's what's was left of a 80 foot pine on our thrid job today...it was close to 36 inches at the butt, but, even though the service lines were right next to it on one side( we tied them back a bit), I still had it limbed and topped in maybe an hour.. it produced a good 8 yards of chips. It was low at $400 (cash) but we;re doing two more for two neighbors for another $1225, so this guy wanted $100 off as the referrer. I had no problem with that.

Travis ready to be the pancake filling?












Notice Ian is now on the other side. He'd left a hunk of holding wood on one side, so it stopped in mid fall...That can happen if the bar is too short to go alo the way thru, and the faller doesn't do a precise job. It is also good to bore out some of the center hinge width, as when falling shorter sticks, not much hinge is needed.






The woods modded Dolmar PS7900 can sure throw a roostertail, eh?


----------



## rbtree

aye...and, contrary to popular opinion in these parts, I'll still kiss ehp's assssss.

He builds some awesome woods saws....

(that dolmar was done by SlozerDan)


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## Trinity Honoria

rbtree said:


> aye...and, contrary to popular opinion in these parts, I'll still kiss ehp's assssss.



as always, post pictures!!!


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## Slyder

Well I think it's great to see all these pictures. It's quite helpful, I kind of a get perspective of what I may be getting myself into.
I did a lot of searching yesterday on purchasing the Tree Climbers Companion.
I did it, I found it at the Gear Merchant, I believe in Georgia. It was the cheapest I could find it. I think I may try and put it up on a website I will be putting together in the future. This way whoever could download it for reference. If anyone is objective to this please let me know. I don't want to start any crap. Ahhh just a thought anyway. 
Trinity I not sure if I have nutz, or am nutz, friends tell me both.
They tell me all the time.......If anyone is crazy enough to do it...... it be you.
This has been a awesome Site and I really have taken in all the insight. I really would like to see someone local in action.
I'm still trying to figure out the rope hanging all the way to the ground.
I have an idea, but when I get the book it should become clear.


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## rbtree

He's not a troll, Dan. C'mon, be nice, ya hear. He asked if anyone objected. And you are right. That wouldn't be cool, slyder....


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## Slyder

Thanks TreeCo
I never thought of that. Your right.
I'm not to good with all these what you can and can't do laws.
See that's what I was hoping to hear. 

I'm not sure what the comment of a Troll is....
Would you please explain?


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## Slyder

Sorry TreeCo
I grew up on a Pig farm and Slottered them until I was 15, and I was lucky enough to finish HighSchool.
I didn't go to any College or fancy school.
I swung a hammer most of my life and work on cars both mechanical and bodywork.
Sorry if you think I'm hear for attention, but you are mistaken.
I've worked hard for everything I have and I am willing to do what ever it takes to save money so my kids get more than I had.


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## diltree

*Slyder*

hmmm...it is strange that you went from asking if the price is ok and switched to "Do it yourself", and have maintained that standpoint regardless of the knowledgeable folks that have advised against you and you never did contact me for advice on the companies that quoted you nor did you take up on my offer for a third estimate. I guess topping trees really is pretty easy; people with now experience take down 90' pines all the time. Still it is nice to see a poor farm boy with little education going into web site design, you can do anything if you set your mind to it!!!

GoodLuck Slyder!!!



www.dillontree.com


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## arboristman

my 2 cents:
those are nice white pine trees.first off i see no reason to remove them.something i missed in the pics?i would not recomened removeing them.
they have lived for awile,why not let them continue to grow? big nice trees add value to property.and provide shade.

second,like everyone has told you,not to do them,i can tell you right now that you cant! get the gear,go on up.IF you even happen to make it to the top,there is no way in hell you would dare to start cutting.
these are NOT trees to "start" out on. you would want at LEAST a years worth of climbing full time to even atempt this.they look easy looking up,its a whole diff ball game when your up there looking down.

more info is needed,but with info i have,i say DONT remove them.
and DONT try it yourself.
based on the pics.i find the price right on myself.


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## Slyder

TreeCo.
---------
Not a problem, I'm by far no professional writer I use spell check all the time.
I usually write whats on my mind period. 
Believe me I'll keep asking questions, if you'll keep answering.



diltree.
---------
I had received some prices that nearly gave me a heart attack.
If you re-read my first post I already had intentions in doing this myself because of this.
I bought spikes, belt and cheesy lanyard.
Yes, I'm a stubborn growing old bald guy who thinks there's nothing he can't do.
I haven't called you yet because I was hoping that Newfie the first person I talked to was going to get back to me and we'd set up an appointment.
I like doing business with the small guys who are trying to make ends meet not thinking about the next new Harley, or new Truck there going to buy.
If I get in a bind I'll call in my own time. Besides if I had that much money in my hand the trees would be down by now.
Website...................?
I never said I was designing it, a friend is going to put a link off his website offering pictures of some of the work I do in the construction field. This way I can earn a few extra bucks to make ends meet. 


arboristman
----------
The pine thats to the left of the shed as you face the doors, the roots are exposed. I am going to be building a retaining wall there and tar my driveway.
I didn't want the roots of the tree pushing the retaining wall over in time.
The other one is right next to the propane tank and the gas line that runs to the house is right on top of some roots.


----------



## diltree

well if saving money is the priority, perhaps we could barter.......Your a contractor Im an arborist.....I own two older homes that need work in some areas, maybe we could work something out, one hand washing the other.



www.dillontree.com


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## Dadatwins

diltree said:


> well if saving money is the priority, perhaps we could barter.......Your a contractor Im an arborist.....I own two older homes that need work in some areas, maybe we could work something out, one hand washing the other.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com



Wonder if he will squeak on the $$$ when the shoe is on the other foot 
You are probably an OK guy slyder and I don't mean to hammer you but it drives me crazy when folks get prices for jobs, think they are ridiculus and then come on a site like this and ask for advice on how to do-it-yourself-to save-a-buck. I have gone back to a few jobs over the years that I priced and found cut ropes still hanging in the tree, broken ladders, ripped extension cords, even had a guy in crutches meet me at the door for the second estimate, which was higher than the first since he cut out all the main tie-in crotches before he fell from the ladder. You are a contractor, stick to it, get a few estimates from reputable companies, have them price it as a cut and leave and pay the price.


----------



## Newfie

Slyder,

Like I said in my PM I'll get in touch with you some time toward the end of next week and then we can set up a time to look at the trees. I have previous customer obligations to consider first. Patience my friend, the trees ain't going anywhere.


----------



## woodchux

Slyder said:


> Well I am a liscensed Contractor for New Construction and Remodeling.
> This is my part time job on the side.
> I have a full time job to pay the bills and keep my family happy.
> I'm hoping he'll come over and give me a good price.
> I have a tools that might come in handy.
> We'll see.



just wondering... 
What is your part time job? 
And what is your full time job?


----------



## pigwot

This evening I borrowed a truck from a friend still active in the business to get a load of mulch. He was a bit rattled. He had given a couple a $1200 estimate for a removal and several prunings; never heard back until today when the 72 year old fellow's wife called to ask if he could come finish the work. Turns out her husband decided to do the work himself. He is in the hospital with just about every major bone in his body broken. Lucky to be alive. 

Whatever you decide to do, be careful, be safe. The unknown will come back to bite you. When I was learning to ride a motorcycle in 1972 my friend would say, "the moment you stop riding the motorcycle, it starts riding you". His point was 'constant vigilance', a point well-taken. After more than 30 years in trees I still have a healthy fear of chainsaws, gravity, and heck, for that matter even the Silky 
...and that is the point


----------



## clearance

Slyder, you have been told, and told good, by people who know and care. If you persist in this foolishness of trying it yourself, give someone your password to this site so we can read about you in the injuries columm, thanks, Jim.


----------



## trevmcrev

Slyder,
Price might not be so relevent for me to comment on being on the other side of the world but that would easy be a $3000 job for me.

They are not trees i would have my novice climber tackle, they are for a pro, with at least a few years experience, but youve heard that already.

Another hazard youve just mentioned now is the pipe for thre propane in on the surface, above the roots. What happens when you drop a branch or block of wood from 70' up on that? Or on the shed?

Have you ever watched start to finish a tree service professional go about a job of this size? Have you got any idea how complex it is? 

We make it look easy because we are pros. 

As a building contractor(even only part time), what would you think about me deciding to build my self a new house after asking a couple of questions and buying a hammer, chisel and tool belt? The quote i got from the builders was a lot of money, how hard can it be?

If your dead set on doing this yourself (think about the word dead there too),
an idea might be to get someone to get the first, hardest tree down on the ground for you. Take note of everything they did and all the other bits of specialzed gear they used. Then ask yourself if you seriously think you can do the same first try, remembering that they've done it thousands of times before.

When giving estimates i often hear the same old "i'd do it myself but..." line.
When we come and do the job and they see how its actually done they tend to have an embarrassed look on their face that says "theres no way i couldve done that"

If your tight on for the $$$, best bet is get a pro company with insurance to put them on the ground and no more cutting than needed to do so and you take it from there.

Trev.
http://www.totaltreecare.com.au


----------



## Joshua

I told my girlfriend about this thread last night and she said:
"Why dosent he buy some dental equipment and work on his families teeth instead of paying a dentist. He'd save a lot of money like that."
Kinda says it all really.
Get a pro in.


----------



## Slyder

Well, this is to keep everyone up to speed.

I called diltree on Monday the 22 or Tuesday the 23 of this week and they should be here today to give a price. I believe I spoke with the father.

newfie said he'll get in touch sometime around next week.

I dropped my daughter off at a birthday party last Saturday, drove by a tree guy, gave him a call, he stopped by and gave me a price on the spot. Really nice person and very attractive price. Much better than everyone so far.
Drop'em and mulch'em.

I'm still looking at these trees and saying this would be a great adrenaline rush. The more time goes by the more I think, the more I think the more I wonder, Hmmmmmmm.

Do I or Don't I?

I've been looking at the stihl climbing saws........they aren't cheap

Hope everyone enjoys the Holiday!


----------



## rbtree

Cool. 

Let him do them.....or newfie and NETree

...and try your hand at recreational climbing, it's fun.


----------



## Newfie

rbtree said:


> Cool.
> 
> Let him do them.....or newfie and NETree
> 
> ...and try your hand at recreational climbing, it's fun.



My feelings wouldn't be hurt if you let someone else do the job. I'll still take a look if you want. I'm so [email protected] busy just trying to find time to do bids is a hassle. Luckiliy I finished a job early today so I can mow the grass which is going on 3 weeks now. Now I gotta stop screwing around here.


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## Slyder

well dang it newfie, cut some trees, work overtime if you have too.
mow the lawn and get your butt over here. I have beer! 
just kidding.

I'd still like to get another quote.
This last guy was a lot cheaper than the others.

Thanks


----------



## coveredinsap

I'd say "do it yourself" too...but not if you value anything in the potential drop zone, or your own life and limb if you intend to climb those babies yourself....as they look to have the potential to be widowmakers.

In all honesty, I also don't see where you'd save any money by doing it yourself....you need at least a small climbing saw and a larger saw to deal with the trunks, plus climbing equipment and assorted rigging, plus a chipper, plus at least one (and two would be better) helpers to deal with it...and it's still a good days work for both trees.
Add it all up and it's cheaper if you can get a bid in the $1500 - $1900 range, which seems fair. The $2200 bid seems a little high to me for a twofer like that.

And there's the potential for those trees to cause a lot of damage if done by an amateur, so I'd make sure it's someone who's got the necessary insurance too.

If there was nothing around I'd be saying drop them yourself. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

(And I agree those are easy 90' - 100' trees judging by the photos.)


----------



## MS TreeMonkey

Ok - i've been reading this thread thinking i would finally see slyder say, "I sumbit, it's more than i can handle!" But he hasn't so i'll say it! Slyder, it's too much for you! Please don't try it yourself - i agree, $2200 sounds a bit steep, down here that would be $900 - $1200. Get some more prices, make sure they're insured, and write the check. Those aren't learning trees!


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## diltree

Yes.... two pines in Gardner my dad will be out to give you a Price on sat., ask for a price to just get them down and a price to take evreything away....


www.dillontree.com


----------



## diltree

Just so you guys know, we priced the job this past weekend...we were $1800 to get the trees Down and $2300 to take evreything away. My Dad Spoke with "slyder" and said he was a nice guy, but crazy to even think about climbing those trees. Thats my update for this thread


www.dillontree.com


----------



## BlueRidgeMark

Anybody taking bets on the outcome? I'm betting on slyder to do it himself...

:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy

Yeah, me too.

opcorn:


----------



## Adkpk

I got dil tree. Goooo dil!


----------



## rbtree

diltree said:


> Just so you guys know, we priced the job this past weekend...we were $1800 to get the trees Down and $2300 to take evreything away. My Dad Spoke with "slyder" and said he was a nice guy, but crazy to even think about climbing those trees. Thats my update for this thread
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com



Thanks for the report, diltree..mind asking your dad the dbh and height? did the $1800 include any brush chipping? Looked to me like a half truckload or so.....but pics can be deceiving. Could you guys crane the wood over the wires? and crane the tops as well?


----------



## BlueRidgeMark

Adrpk said:


> I got dil tree. Goooo dil!




Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm HOPING dil or some other competent arborist gets the work.


I'm just afraid slyder is going to tackle this on his own...


----------



## Ax-man

So am I, but there was another bid too, how much was that one. Let me guess about half.

Larry


----------



## trevmcrev

Slyder, if you do this yourself, please have someone video it, then see if your game to post your handywork on here.
Trev

Ps. DONT DO IT


----------



## diltree

RB....The trees are very easy to top out with a bucket or an experienced climber for that matter; if we were to just get them to the ground. My dad did say you could pick them with the crane from slyders driveway or the road, which we would do only if we were to remove the trees from the premises completely. The price for $1800 was to get the trees on the ground no chipping or removal of any debris. As far as DBH and height go...I'm not sure i will need to talk with the old man!!!



www.dillontree.com


----------



## Slyder

OK people
I'd ask what the going odds are but that would ruin the fun of it all.

What does DBH mean?
I'm guessing..... I still haven't received my climbing companion book yet.

Dead Branch Height

I am hoping to get the last price from Newfie..
I know he's been busy but i'm hoping to get the last bid.

I will tell you the price the local guy gave me after Newfie, if he is still willing to come and give his perspective and price.

Type soon.


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## Ax-man

I don't think DBH is in the older version of the T. C. C. book, it has been revised and expanded, the newer version might have it, I also have to get the newer book. I have glanced at it at when I was at our Vermeer dealer, it covers not only climbing now but basic rigging and other related topics concerning tree work. 

DBH = Diameter Breast Height or 4 foot above ground level. A more accurate method to measure a trees diameter because flares in the root collar can vary between tree species and within the same species.

Larry


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## BlueRidgeMark

Diameter at Breast Height. The size of the trunk.


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## rbtree

diltree said:


> RB....The trees are very easy to top out with a bucket or an experienced climber for that matter; if we were to just get them to the ground. My dad did say you could pick them with the crane from slyders driveway or the road, which we would do only if we were to remove the trees from the premises completely. The price for $1800 was to get the trees on the ground no chipping or removal of any debris. As far as DBH and height go...I'm not sure i will need to talk with the old man!!!
> 
> 
> 
> www.dillontree.com



Gee, looked to me like a 6 man hour no haul....must be nice to be able to get $300 per manhour.

Based on that, you guys would bid about 80,000 on the 4 trees that I just looked at. One of the best local companies bid $18,500, which I think is mighty low....prolly 20-25 cords of wood, all has to be split and loaded. 110-130 foot hazardous pacific silver fir, topped at two and three different heights over the years, falling apart......appx dbh's 65, 45, 35,35......No crane access. Only way I'd consider doing the job at that price is hiring a bunch of temp laborers at $15 hr, and renting two wood splitters. 


DBH = diameter at breast height.


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## RedlineIt

Hi Slyder,



Photo in your avatar is a little dark, but that appears to be a Hayabusa infront of an older sportbike of undetermined vintage, but I'll guess it's a big Fizzer, butt the fender seems wrong. Possibly a CBR' but I can hardly tell.

That Hayabusa owns some big adrelaline thills. I love the way the 'Busa lifts the front wheel with easy contol, easy as pie, no effort, no clutch. It's a rush.

You'd like to take down these two pines not just to save money, let's face it, you are intrigued by the potential rush of climbing high and blowing it up!

But this is your first tree, grasshopper, you must learn to climb this small tree before you go big.

What was your first bike? Maybe a 600, maybe a dirtbike?

You wouldn't advise a new rider to get on your Hayabusa for their first ride, would you? No matter how big their balls, they haven't the skill.

I dig the rush of climbing as much as I dig getting my knee down in the corners, but I must advise you that you need some skills before you attempt to go after these Pines.

RedlineIt


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## Slyder

RedlineIt

Your right it is a 2000 Hayabusa (my ride) last year of the unrestricted.
Yes with the twist of the wrist the front comes up quite quickly with ease.

The bike in the back is a 1987 GSXR 1100, one of the many I've owned.
I like dragging knee myself. The age is catching up to me though and I think I'm going to the Goldwing soon. 

I have over time been collecting the necessary tools of the trade to climb.
I am the type to keep the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.

It's the rush that keeps me enjoying life along with my family.

The next tool I must acquire is a nice climbing saw. I'm looking for a stihl 020, I've come to the conclusion this is the saw I want to climb with.

I still have doubts every time I stand and ponder the trees, but I can always use the saw.

Thanks for noticing what was and is still called the worlds fastest production bike ever built.


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## Ryan Gossen

You know, if you were remodeling your kitchen with no carpentry experience, Id say, do your homework and be prepared to make mistakes. You may not wind up with the most cost-effective result in the end, but you will learn allot. This is not carpentry. Lose control of the saw 60 feet up or gaff out and it may be the last thing you learn. Or you may remodel your kitchen the fast way.

If these trees really do have to go, and you still think you can do this with no training, go strap those gaffs on and climb one of those trees with a block, slings, ropes and saw hanging from your belt. When you get about 50 feet up, stop and replay this conversation in your head. Look over at the house, look over at the power lines (you know their voltage and have the emergency number for the utility company right?), consider which way what you cut will fall, how you will rig it, and what is at steak should something not go as you expect. Then come down and tell me you still want to do it.


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## OTG BOSTON

You have decided that the Stihl 020 is a great saw to climb with, and it is. As far as saws go, most experts will tell you that using a top handle saw on the ground is not a safe practice. So if you buy this saw to remove these trees it may be the only time you can safely use it. Then again safety doesn't exactly appear to be your main concern.


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## TimberMcPherson

This is classic. I think you should wait until your kids turn 16 and then let them take your Busa for a ride on a canyon road the same day that you decide to take on these trees. I reckon it would be even money whose going to be in one piece the next night.

This job has nothing to do with having the balls to do it as you dont have the knowledge to know what your in for, in the same way that you kid wouldnt know what they are getting into by taking your busa out for a spin on a mountain rd. They might know how to ride a bike, they have seen you ride a bike and have no reason to think that they cant to it if they are willing to "have the balls".

I taught myself to paraglide, used to ice climb and solo rock climb, raced F3 for years, have ridden gp bikes, climbed and dismantled trees in 85mph winds. Dumb crap for thrills has its limits. Its not the very limited range of what you know that could kill you, its what you have no idea about and cant comprehend at this stage that could leave your house flattened and your family mourning your loss.


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## Slyder

This is to keep everyone up to date.
The trees are still standing at this point.
I had Carpenl Tunnel surgery on my right hand on the 14th and it's healing fast.
I said I would tell everyone the other price after Newfie stopped by.
The one other quote I received from a tree company in my own town, he's how you say on the other side of the tracks was for 600.00 down and 700.00 mulched. I thought this was a perfect price. I told him I was contemplating cutting them down myself. He gave me his card and wrote the price on the back, handed it to me shook my hand and said call me when your ready, your close and the price will stand.

Well for the time being, I've been enjoying my Sam Adams. 
Stay safe 

John


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## Newfie

Hey dan,glad you could pull you head out of your a$$ long enough to say hello. how come you don't PM anymore?

John, $700? That's dirt cheap even around here. Ask him for his agent to send you proof of insurance.


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## Newfie

TreeCo said:


> Check your box.
> 
> Insurance? Ha! Just drives up the price.



There's a guy around here who is great at low-balling. He bid the removal of 8 large white pines for $800. The crane rental cost him $1200. Pure genius.


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## Toddppm

No update lately? Has Slyder been posting at http://www.roofersforum.com/ asking how to repair his roof after the low bidder got the job?


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## Ax-man

They sure are a lively bunch over there.


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## Slyder

Hey People
No changes yet, trees are still standing.
Just went back to work and am trying to catch up.
It's funny how much can pile up after being out for almost 4 weeks.
Been fun though enjoying the family.

Roofers forum funny..........

No, haven't found that yet.

I'll keep checking in and keep you all up to whats going on.

Climb safe all.


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## pitkas

Sink or Swim.


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## AJ373KU

This sounds like as good as place as any to post this. I have one year experience cutting firewood in the Pike National forest. My wife wanted me to clear some defensible space around our house. She is quite paranoid about wild fires. 

The tree in question was a Ponderosa Pine 52 feet tall and 42 inches in diameter at the base. It was 2 feet off my deck in front of the house leaning slightly in the oposite direction I wanted it to fall.

Without a plan or the proper equipment I set out on a Saturday morning to "save some money" and cut this tree down myself. Turns out cutting a tree down is not as easy as it looks when a professional does it. 

There are reasons there are professionals who cut trees down. It is difficut, dangerous work. If you do not know what you are doing you risk injury to yourself and your property. 

*Cost of "saving money" by doing it myself:*

$300.00 to the electrician who had to replace my electrical meter.

$1700.00 to the power company to come out on the weekend and replace the wires from the meter to the main line and the transformer I knocked down when the tree fell the opposite direction I intended.

I was lucky. It could have fell on my house and caused untold dollar amount of damage. It also could have done any of the above and killed me.

*ADVICE:* Big tree, close to anything valuble and inexperience....adds up to calling in a pro and having them do it right.


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## Adkpk

Ya! This is the exact thread to post that story on. Big thanks to you AJ. Welcome to the arborist. There should be more stories on this thread like that. I am sure they're out there. Sorry about the misfortune though, bummer.


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## TylerRose

*My 10c*

For a tree of that size and the location... the price seems fair. It's not the work that jumps the price up, but the liability. The one thing you need to do is make sure that whoever you use is insured. a 70' tree can do terribly large amounts of damage. I would highly recommend having an insured professional do this job for you... especially if the health of the trees is questionable.


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## Slyder

Good Morning People.
Hope everyone is well.

I have been away, not far, I still see my trees day after day.
Their still standing.
I just finished splitting up last years cut for this years burn. Sold a few cord to buy a new saw.

I picked up a MS 260 Pro (new)(not sure) 
and a MS 200T (used)(toy)
I still have my Homelite 1050 Automatic (landing saw)(trying to get away from to heavy)
Shindaiwa 695 (main dropping)
and my Olympyc 246 (retired) just don't trust it anymore.

I probably won't drop the pines this year now that Winter is around the corner and I have about 5 standing cord I must drop. 
More than likely in the Spring.

I've been watching a few of the videos so keep them coming.

Climb safe all


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## Husky137

This a atory waiting to happen.


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## Joshua

*what happened ?*

did this fool kill himself with his "toy" ms200 ?


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## lxt

I say climb up there blow the tops out, chunk the spar down & hell with that new 020(which is the saw) to add to your collection nothing can stop ya!! a big S on your chest a red cape some fancy boots and you got all the gear you need!!!

Its home owners like this that really crack me up, I ride a busa, I have Balls, im a contractor, thats too much, I have balls!!!! yeah well Ive rode everything under the sun cycle wise h2750`s, nortons, trumps, ducati, harleys, V-max, zx-14`s, arial square 4`s etc... & none of this compares to tree work I just wanna keep my balls!!!

you Home owners want to save a buck, but when you goto work I bet you wanna make a buck uhh? I tell ya what, Ill come up & cheer you on, I want you to do it, go slyder go go... here in pittsburgh a 68 year old man died doing his own tree cause he didnt like the prices he got!!!

you, your just plain stupid pro`s on here gave you advice, gave you bids & still you want to do it yourself, I wont even wish you good luck!! you get what you deserve!! I`ll pray for your family.

LXT...........


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## JTinaTree

Slyder said:


> rbtree and computeruser
> 
> My trees are about 25' form my house on one side and about 25' from powerlines on the other.
> 
> My cheapest quote was 2200.00 dollars. Gulp
> 
> Do you think this is reasonable or were these go away prices?
> 
> I'm not hear to offened anyone just meet some new people and have a beer.
> or two or three........



$2200 DOLLARS for two 70ft pines, I need to move up North!!!


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## squad143

So.... what happened?. This was a long read (thread). Kinda like reading a book and the last few pages are missing.

Any of you guys that gave quotes (Diltree or Newfie) happen to drive by and see the trees (or house) still standing?

BTW, Diltree, I just checked out your web site, nice job. 
Looks like you guys have some pretty nice equipment.


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## chucknduck

rbtree said:


> You definitely shouldn't be doing those yourself. They look maybe 85-100 feet, branches kind of long, no drop zone on the one, better on the other. All long branches will need to be lowered on the one tree, maybe not on the other, plus the top will be need to be lowered on one if not both.
> 
> Not a lot of room to stage branches on the one in the tighter of the two spots. But still could be done as a no haul.
> 
> Still a bit hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like a 3 hour job for three men.... I'd charge about $8-900, or $11-1400 with cleanup-- or a bit more. No wood hauling. If I'm envisioning the job correctly, $2200 is robbery, they look to be relatively straightforward--but only for professionals.
> 
> Hire it out.





I agree with you all, he shouldn't do that one himself. $2200 is a bit high, but I might charge that much for that one. Anytime there is a rick of breaking something, such as that shed, that raises the price in my opinion.


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## Thillmaine

Treework in Mass is expensive...Let it be known...We get paid well to do it as well...there is another thread speakign about pay scale int he boston area...it seems to be about double what the rest of the country is...


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## ctrees4$

Keep getting bids until you find the right guy.I bid a job for a do it yourselfer,he decided to go rent a lift and do the job hiself.I asked his buddy how well they did getting the tree down and he told me the last limb left to cut went through his roof.My bid was for $375.00 to drop the tree no clean up.I lmao thinking how much extra he had to pay out!!


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## Sprig

All I can think of is 'Wholey Chit!!', the gents up here would piece that down in short time @ about 150per tree, about 2-3hrs work, no cleanup but no bs or damage either, dang!
I guess its what the market will bear, not my cup o' tea to put people down but that quote seems on the robbery side of things.

Just my unworthy 0.02$ fer the wormy-wet evening.

 (like they said ^^^^, get some more quotes eh)

Serge


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## Husky137

Would you chunk it down on the shed or the propane tank?opcorn:


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## Sprig

Husky137 said:


> Would you chunk it down on the shed or the propane tank?opcorn:




Shed.


opcorn:


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## polingspig

Won't anyone living close enough just ride by this guys place and at least tell us if the trees are still there? I have to know. It's eating me up!


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## Rftreeman

Slyder said:


> May I ask how everyone started?
> Noboby starts out knowing how to do everything.


nope we sure didn't know a darn thing when we started but we where trained by people who did know everything. being trained how to do something and trying it with out training are night and day, those used spike are most likely pole spikes which are too short for trees being that you state they came with a "belt", we don't use "belts" we use saddles, if the price is too high then save money and have it done later because you can't support your family if you're dead or paralyzed.


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## treesquirrel

1250.00 including haul off if you were here in Atl.


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## OLD CHIPMONK

About $1000 here & that would probably include stump grinding.


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## Rftreeman

Slyder said:


> Heres some of the new pictures just taken



I wouldn't even consider that job for less than $1500 and I'm one of those "small guys" you spoke of.

I have one question, who and how do you plan to keep the limbs and wood from hitting that shed under the trees?


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## Husky137

Don't forget the 250gal. propane tank.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Rftreeman

Husky137 said:


> Don't forget the 250gal. propane tank.:hmm3grin2orange:



oh yeah, I forgot that.

anyone with out experience would be a fool to try and do that job with the gear that has been described in this thread, nothing was mentioned about a rope to lower the limbs much less a climbing rope.


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## treesquirrel

Rftreeman said:


> I have one question, who and how do you plan to keep the limbs and wood from hitting that shed under the trees?



I'd tell you but then I'd have to shoot ya.

But it involves a fair bit of rope rigging.


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## Rftreeman

treesquirrel said:


> I'd tell you but then I'd have to shoot ya.
> 
> But it involves a fair bit of rope rigging.


you don't got to tell me, I know how, i was asking the guy who thinks he is a treeman all of a sudden.


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## tree md

Kind of interesting reading how folks would price these trees in their particular locals.

$2200 a tree doesn't sound outrageous to me. Lots of rigging to be done. I would probably ask for $1800 a tree and might be willing to do it for $1500 a tree if I was hungry. I just did a 60' Cotton Wood that was leaning over a house for $1440. The bid was for $1600 but I gave the lady a 10% senior discount. Lots of risk and liability in this business. I refuse to work for peanuts.


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## Husky137

Rftreeman said:


> you don't got to tell me, I know how, i was asking the guy who thinks he is a treeman all of a sudden.



You are not likely to get an answer as this thread is 18 months old. I'm sure he is still flipping through his pile of "free" estimates.


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## treesquirrel

Rftreeman said:


> you don't got to tell me, I know how, i was asking the guy who thinks he is a treeman all of a sudden.



Sorry, did not mean to be rude, just a stab at some humor....


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## hornett22

*come on up*



JTinaTree said:


> $2200 DOLLARS for two 70ft pines, I need to move up North!!!



it shouldn't take you long to realize why it's more up here.


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## Wood Cutter

So What Happened????????? Dang It, I Want To Know


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## hornett22

*been bugging me too.*



Wood Cutter said:


> So What Happened????????? Dang It, I Want To Know



hope he didn't go against our advice.hope he's still around.


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## loveroftrees

I taught myself to paraglide, used to ice climb and solo rock climb, raced F3 for years, have ridden gp bikes, climbed and dismantled trees in 85mph winds. Dumb crap for thrills has its limits. Its not the very limited range of what you know that could kill you, its what you have no idea about and cant comprehend at this stage that could leave your house flattened and your family mourning your loss. TimberMcPherson Now I've heard and seen some things in the tree bis but climbing and cutting in that kind of wind sounds out their to me. I have have a problem cutting in 25 mph wind while in a tree...


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## OTG BOSTON

I can see you looking at this Slyder! Details please!


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## Slyder

Well, Hello everyone who has stuck around to see what has transpired.

I am still alive, I have however been practicing how to climb. WOW this is.....I will agree A LOT harder than it looks. 
I have been climbing short heights just to tie off some trees to down them.
My legs are killing me. I think I maybe to old and heavy to do this.

I have to and do respect all of you who do this for a living. 

I am at the point where i'm pretty sure I will be staying on the ground and sticking to only trees that I know I can take down without risking my life.

OK. 

YES, The trees are still standing!

Now............ I'm ready for the I told you so's.


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## OTG BOSTON

Hey man, Anyone who does the "I told you so", has no class. You're allright in my book.


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## 2FatGuys

Your decision to NOT take them down yourself proves you don't fit into that other popular thread, "You May Be A Hack If..." GREAT decision! Glad you are still around to respond...


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## lxt

Honestly I kinda wish more home owners would try it!! that way when they get a bid they think is too high they`ll understand!! give ya props though you tried & now you have a better understanding of whats involved!!


Be Safe, Take Care

LXT..............


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## hornett22

*i agree 100% lxt!*



lxt said:


> Honestly I kinda wish more home owners would try it!! that way when they get a bid they think is too high they`ll understand!! give ya props though you tried & now you have a better understanding of whats involved!!
> 
> 
> Be Safe, Take Care
> 
> LXT..............



slyder,you have my respect.i know how hard it is to hire someone when you are used to handling everything yourself.we all have limits and i applaud you for finding out what yours are and admitting it.keep climbing,your muscles will get used to it and stronger.i started climbing at 37 which everyone said was too old.i said hogwash.now guys i know in the business can't believe how well i do it for such a short time doing it.one woman told me i was in no way a tree climber,i was too big.again,i said hogwash.if you want to do it bad enough,you will find away. all i ask is you be careful,you can't impress anyone when your dead.i know my limits to this day.i have fears such as dead wood and insects and varmints but it keeps me from getting complacent like AxeKnot.


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## lacewood

Hey guys, I am curious how these numbers get thrown around and how you come up with your quotes. I assume that everyone who is a pro knows what his cost of doing business is (labor, tax, insurance, equipment etc..) and you have an idea of what you want to make for profit at the end of the day. That being said what percentage profit and what percentage overhead is figured into a project?


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## squad143

Good for you Slyder. Glad to see you're still around.

Cheers.


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## Canyonbc

Slyder you did the right thing...and seem to have got a work out while doing it. 

Climbing is a very good work out. 

Good to here you are safe. 

Good luck, be safe. 

You have my respect.


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## Husky137

I hope he's not spiking live trees for recreation.


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## hornett22

*you kind of get used to it.*



lacewood said:


> Hey guys, I am curious how these numbers get thrown around and how you come up with your quotes. I assume that everyone who is a pro knows what his cost of doing business is (labor, tax, insurance, equipment etc..) and you have an idea of what you want to make for profit at the end of the day. That being said what percentage profit and what percentage overhead is figured into a project?



you can look at a tree and figure out how many guys and what equipment you will need.what those guys expect to get paid,how much gas you will use and how time it will take.you can average them out.some are bigger or smaller of course.basically time is money.


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## tree md

"i have fears such as dead wood and insects and varmints but it keeps me from getting complacent like AxeKnot."

LMAO!

Slyder, Hook up with a tree guy and let him teach you for a little while. I'm doing storm work in OK. I could use you here (and teach you a little) if you wanted to come see what tree work and climbing is really all about.


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## af7850

Slyder said:


> Well, Hello everyone who has stuck around to see what has transpired.
> 
> I am still alive, I have however been practicing how to climb. WOW this is.....I will agree A LOT harder than it looks.
> I have been climbing short heights just to tie off some trees to down them.
> My legs are killing me. I think I maybe to old and heavy to do this.




Congratulations!

It sounds like you have found the current limit of your abilities. You may not see it, but this is a reason to celebrate!

When one of my guys reaches his limit, we all celebrate. This is one of the most exciting, exhilarating times for any of us. After all, this is the end of who you are and the beginning of who you are about to become! You are ready to earn your next evolution. Now that you have found your limit, you have the opportunity to push through it - using the right tools, proper training and lots of practice.

If you are frustrated or disappointed, it is because you cannot see a way to advance your skills and abilities. What you need is a mentor who can give you the tools and training you need to set higher goals and reach them.

If I were you, I would *never* hire anyone to take down those trees. I would keep them there as a constant reminder, a perpetual challenge. Let them inspire and drive you to climb until it no longer hurts, and to learn and train until you know enough to plan every step and cut necessary to take them down. (Also, you will probably meet a couple guys along the way who can help you out on the ground - never climb alone!)

Granted it may be quite awhile before you can do this, and you may spend more in time and equipment then it would have cost to hire the job done. However, you have before you a great opportunity for personal growth. You will have a sharper mind, a leaner, meaner body, and a sense of accomplishment which IMHO is worth far more than a couple thousand dollars.


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## Saddlesoar

*To laugh or not to laugh*

My father climbed for 45 years. I have 3 uncles and 4 cousins who have made their living from tree work. I have have been involved and doing tree work my whole life. From your comments I will have forgotten more than you will probably ever know. Please film your adventure and post it so we can all drum up more business from other homeowners.


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## af7850

Saddlesoar said:


> My father climbed for 45 years. I have 3 uncles and 4 cousins who have made their living from tree work. I have have been involved and doing tree work my whole life. From your comments I will have forgotten more than you will probably ever know. Please film your adventure and post it so we can all drum up more business from other homeowners.



Perhaps one of the things that you forgot was what it was like to be a beginner in the business. 

If you have that much experience, you have an obligation to give back to the industry which has supported you and your family for all these years. I'm sure this guy and others could benefit greatly from what you could teach.

I don't see any difference between this guy and many of the folks who come out to our free rec climbing days. I'm happy to welcome new climbers out to help them learn safely and gain a greater appreciation for trees. Its too bad more people don't see it this way.


----------

