# looking to try climbing



## Adkpk (Mar 16, 2007)

I've been shopping on ebay for climbing equipment. I am looking for a harness, rope and whatever else one uses to climb a tree. Not looking to go into the business or anything just want to try it out. I've been reading, "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" by G. F. Beranek and am willing to take a class. But for now if anyone is looking to unload any equipment please contact me. Also any recommendations as to what's good and what's not. Thanks


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## gumneck (Mar 16, 2007)

You probably already know this but Tree Climbers Companion will be the best first start. I'm sure alot here will second that. 

Then just stay low and go slow.

Good luck.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 16, 2007)

I am not sure I would want to buy used stuff on ebay that I am going to risk my life with. A brand new basic rope and saddle kit should cost less than $300.00. I would not climb on a rope that I did not know the history of. As for recomending equipment you will find many different recomendations as to the type of saddle to buy and the dizzying colors and types of rope. Saddles really need to be climbed in to know if they are comfortable or not. A basic weaver leather saddle with leg-straps and a 150' 1/2" braided line will get you into just about any tree to get started. Have fun and be careful.


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## osb_mail (Mar 16, 2007)

*I would adgree on tree climbers companion*

Great little book best bang for your buck . Another thing dont buy used climbing if dont know the history of the gear than it is not worth a dime .Only buy new stuff it is not worth taking a chance on used gear .


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## MonkeyDo (Mar 16, 2007)

*Buyer beware*

I concurr. If you were to take a class on climbing whether it be trees or rock, the first thing you will learn is to not trust gear that is used. If you were experienced enough you could learn to inspect the equipment to determine it's soundness for use. Without having the equip. in front of you, don't think about buying used. To get the basics it won't put you out that much$$ and your life will be alot safer with dependable gear. I fyou do want to take a class I would suggest you start with a recreational tree climbing class. They're not as expensive and it will give you an introduction to it to see if it's something you want to persue. Have fun, test all your set-ups on the ground before you go up a tree.


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## Adkpk (Mar 16, 2007)

I already have an offer for a slightly used master II saddle, I googled it and I am assuming it is a Buckingham. I am an almost 36" waist does that mean a large is my size. 
I can relate to the used equipment, life risking thing, thanks for the advise. I have a good eye and good sense. I have an arborist friend who can check whatever I buy out for me. 
Is there a need for rope devises in order to say, get me up to the lower branches of a white pine? This is what I would start out on.


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## Blinky (Mar 16, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> I already have an offer for a slightly used master II saddle, I googled it and I am assuming it is a Buckingham. I am an almost 36" waist does that mean a large is my size.
> ...



Nope, you're a medium. The Master saddles run big. I bought a Master Classic in medium when I was a 34" to 35" waist. Since I've been climbing regularly I'm down to a 33" waist and my saddle is slightly (aggravatingly) loose when it's cinched to the hilt on both sides.

As for learning to climb. Learn with someone else and use their stuff the first couple of times. That will help you decide on things like harness, lanyard, ascenders, etc. If you're in good shape, learn to ascend on a secured footlock and save the expense of ascenders.

Used gear from someone you don't know well... I wouldn't do it. You have to be able to trust your stuff absolutely to climb well. You don't want to have reservations in the back of your mind when you're 50' up and cut loose for a swing or to descend.


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## Adkpk (Mar 16, 2007)

Blinky said:


> Nope, you're a medium. The Master saddles run big. I bought a Master Classic in medium when I was a 34" to 35" waist. Since I've been climbing regularly I'm down to a 33" waist and my saddle is slightly (aggravatingly) loose when it's cinched to the hilt on both sides.
> 
> As for learning to climb. Learn with someone else and use their stuff the first couple of times. That will help you decide on things like harness, lanyard, ascenders, etc. If you're in good shape, learn to ascend on a secured footlock and save the expense of ascenders.
> 
> Used gear from someone you don't know well... I wouldn't do it. You have to be able to trust your stuff absolutely to climb well. You don't want to have reservations in the back of your mind when you're 50' up and cut loose for a swing or to descend.



Whoa, Blinky, 50' up swinging. Sounds like fun but I have an initial specific job in mind. Does not involve anything like that. But I am getting the message.


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## cntrybo2 (Mar 18, 2007)

Adrpk, honestly man, i am not trying to be mean here at all, but why did you even post your question on this site. Every bit of info that has been given to you you have either blown off or said...yeah i hear you but it doesnt matter. if you have an arborist friend, why arent you working with him to get your gear and asking him this stuff? the guys on here are honestly a VAST source of knowledge and many are an untapped resource. Slow down and listen before it costs you more than your pride or hard headedness. just my 2 cents.


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## Adkpk (Mar 18, 2007)

cntrybo2 said:


> Adrpk, honestly man, i am not trying to be mean here at all, but why did you even post your question on this site. Every bit of info that has been given to you you have either blown off or said...yeah i hear you but it doesnt matter. if you have an arborist friend, why arent you working with him to get your gear and asking him this stuff? the guys on here are honestly a VAST source of knowledge and many are an untapped resource. Slow down and listen before it costs you more than your pride or hard headedness. just my 2 cents.



Cntrybo2, none off that is true. Sorry if I implied that. The last thing I said is, "I am getting the message". Which means I am listening to what is being said. I have taken everyones post very seriously and with much gratitude. 

Lets forget about the friend thing it's just a longshot. 

The update is, for now, I need to get some more money together, didn't expect to have to spend money on new equipment. I am looking at climbing kits. I am undecided as to a butt harness or leg but it looks like the leg harness is a better choice. Taking any advise on that. Haven't looked at schools yet, thinking I need to get some equipment first. 

I have taken everything being said here seriously so please keep it coming, it might be a good thread for anyone interested in trying their first climb. I do realize the risk you guys take and understand your concern. For me personally I don't plan to do anything out of my skill level which is zero now(so I am still on the ground). I am really just entertaining the idea of pulling myself up on a rope for now. I don't plan to bring a chainsaw with me. Trust me I will be asking different questions when I am ready for that.


So please, carry on gentlemen, I am listening.


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## Adkpk (Mar 18, 2007)

One more thing, I forgot. Videos? Anyone think tree climbing videos are worth it?


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## ozy365 (Mar 29, 2007)

Videos are great. Wesspur will let you rent it before you buy it. I would go DVD over VHS whenever possible (more flexible format, etc.).


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## ktm250rider (Mar 29, 2007)

Do not under any circumstance trust used gear. Im not sure if the loadings are similar in trees but in rock climbing, theres no way of telling how many times the ropes have been shock loaded. How about ground in dirt that can deteriorate the inner fibers. The outside could look clean. NEVER BUY USED GEAR.
I have a 10mm, 100m dynamic rope that I have 3 top rope climbs on. Its still got the flats on it from packaging. Havent used it in years. I would not even think of tyring to sell it to anyone.


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## Adkpk (Mar 29, 2007)

Thanks ozy, I'll try that. 

I've been convinced not to buy the used equipment.

While I am waiting to get some money together anybody on the butt vs the leg type harness. I am thinking that the butt harness can tend to cut off circulation to the legs, right?


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## treeseer (Mar 29, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> I am thinking that the butt harness can tend to cut off circulation to the legs, right?


it can, but I've used one for 41 years and circulation is A OK. I'm also less concerned about used gear than others here--you can inspect a saddle to see that it is safe. It's more important to focus on tree care techniques than gear.


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## Diesel JD (Mar 29, 2007)

But used rope is just plain stupid. Don't tell me your life isn't worth $100, which will get you a nice 120' hank of rope which will get you where you need to be to start. I am not an arborist, but have tried climbing for fun some. I had zero skills, and still have very little. Just be sure that you don't cut corners on your rope, also you need to be very sure of your life support knots. A buttstrap saddle is what I started with...no straps. I can see how you could get yourself in a pickle with one... make sure all your snaps are rated for life support. Maybe try and learn with somebody who at least knows the basics. Good luck and have fun. I won't comment on the other used gear as I am not qualified to do so , but used rope is scary.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 29, 2007)

OK used vs new, I have climbed on a used saddle, I also knew what I what I was looking for during pre-climb inspection. Check stitching, check buckle attachments check webbing/leather for dry rot, cracking ect. There are plenty of good used saddle out there that would probably serve your purpose, but I would want to hold it in my hand and inspect it first. Climbing rope can also be inspected also for nicks, pulls, burn spots ect. I would only use a climbing rope that I knew the history of, and given the $100.00 - $150.00 cost of a new rope and what it will be holding, I would just buy new and live with it. As for leg strap or butt strap saddle, I started on a butt strap with a fixed d-ring, rope snap and a taut-line and can still climb with it. I currently use a leg strap saddle with 2 floating d-rings, carabiners, and a split-tail distal. It will take some time for you to get comfortable with the whole tree climbing process. For now I would start basic and work up to what YOU feel is best for you. As the industry has advanced many new techniques have become available, climbing systems are changing almost daily. I am an advocate to start with the barest of basics and master them before moving up to the more advance technique. To do this work you must feel comfortable in your gear and confident in your ability and equipment. Be careful.


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## 046 (Mar 29, 2007)

don't buy used gear, especially a rope, has been hammered home.. I hope. 
sure if you have a ton of experience, you can tell what's safe in used gear. but not for a newbie. 

this will get you started...

1. start low and slow
2. don't use internet as your only source of information.
3. realize AS is an excellent source of information, but some information posted here will get you killed. (learn what's BS is hard to do)
4. go buy climbers companion
5. buy a new rope... a 120ft hank of safety blue (braided)
6. find someone to mentor you
7. until you can tie your knots blind folded, you don't know them well enough
8. start with traditional system using a blake's hitch
9. for your life line, always tie a backup knot to primary knot 
10. if you don't understand any of above .... go read the climber companion. 

check out new tribe saddles http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=b774ce920fdf2bb36abbfa4cde281d87


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## Adkpk (Mar 30, 2007)

Yes. Thanks all. Great. I am anxious but still broke. I am back to the landscaping full time now and expect some money to start to flow. So, please keep it coming. I haven't had time to get the video lined up but that is next. Remember, I'm only in it for some particular tasks and overall sense of curiosity and adventure, not trying to hang from a 100' oak while out on a limb. So, please keep it simple until I try it then I'll have some more questions. I get nervous and confused when the talk gets too complicated. Or is that talk not too complicated yet? I am reading up on a few knots so thanks 046 for the particular ones to start with. As for used: no used rope and saddles, in my shopping experience haven't seen any good enough bargains to keep me from buying new so new it will be. So hang tight for me for now guys, I'll be back when I get some stuff to hang from. In the mean time happy posting and thanks again.


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## Adkpk (Mar 30, 2007)

046 said:


> don't buy used gear, especially a rope, has been hammered home.. I hope.
> sure if you have a ton of experience, you can tell what's safe in used gear. but not for a newbie.
> 
> this will get you started...
> ...



I looked at that rope. Anybody got a second opinion? Looks like the right price. Is it savings or something that will be thrown in a hump after I find something of better quality.


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## SRT-Tech (Mar 30, 2007)

Baileys has 120' x 1/2' of Arborplex rope for $68 bucks!! great way to get into climbing. 

keep it simple. 

- harness
- rope
- throwline and throwbag
- helmet and gloves.
- locking biner


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## 046 (Mar 31, 2007)

safety blue is what I use.. excellent rope with great hand. ties knots with ease. holds up well, try to use a friction saver. 

quality comes first, price is secondary. it helps if you can get both. 

quodos to you for asking for second opinions! this will help you separate BS that will get you killed. 



Adrpk said:


> I looked at that rope. Anybody got a second opinion? Looks like the right price. Is it savings or something that will be thrown in a hump after I find something of better quality.


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## Adkpk (Mar 31, 2007)

I am thinking the Weaver double dee saddle, a throwline. Friction saver, Lanyard(wire core). "Climbers Companion". And am still undecided about the ascender and the rope. As I think of going through the motions of starting out, the questions become to much to write. So right now I am going to look through the book to get some answers. (Like an important question, how do you get back to the surface?) Thanks guys


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## newguy18 (Mar 31, 2007)

*i hear ya*



Adrpk said:


> I've been shopping on ebay for climbing equipment. I am looking for a harness, rope and whatever else one uses to climb a tree. Not looking to go into the business or anything just want to try it out. I've been reading, "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" by G. F. Beranek and am willing to take a class. But for now if anyone is looking to unload any equipment please contact me. Also any recommendations as to what's good and what's not. Thanks



hi my name is bill howe i am trying to get in to the pro end of tree climbing.i learned and still climb in a linemans belt with pole spikes still trying to get tree spikes and a saddle.i also recomend the tree climbers companion by jeff jepson.


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## clearance (Mar 31, 2007)

Keep it simple and safe, good saddle, steelcore, spurs and a new rope. I finally got the Treeclimbers Companion, no advice on how to cut, just painfull ways to hump up the tree, use ladders or get someone to help, page after page about getting the rope in the tree and then getting up it. I know that book was written with good intentions but c'mon.


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## nytreeman (Apr 1, 2007)

Ive climbed and taken quite a few trees down by myself but its def not a good/safe idea get a good man on the ground you can trust.Climbers companion is a good book for the basics.Get a new pair of tree gaffs and saddle,a couple good rope lanyards,maybe a steel core flipline,200 ft of good climbing rope and a 3/4 " bull rope for lowering.learn your knots,like taughtline hitch,bowline etc. , is a good start.Ive taking down hundreds of trees using just this and even after many years I like to keep my climbing simple and safe so I can go home at night and fix my old ford work trucks and drink some beer


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## clearance (Apr 1, 2007)

nytreeman said:


> Climbers companion is a good book for the basics.Get a new pair of tree gaffs and saddle,a couple good rope lanyards,maybe a steel core flipline,200 ft of good climbing rope and a 3/4 " bull rope for lowering.



Like I said the Treeclimbers Companion is not about the work, it is about how to get into a tree without using spurs, for the most part. If you need a 3/4" rope to lower, you are taking way to big pieces, think about it. Other than that NYTreeman, excellent post, keeping it simple, good man.


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## Adkpk (Apr 3, 2007)

Ordered a Weaver double dee saddle, New England blue vee rope, friction saver, throw weight and line and a 5/8 th 8' wire core flip line system. I am better at doing something to learn rather than just reading about it. So. I 'll learn some knots once I get some rope. I've thought out the equipment pretty well but am unsure about the flip line. Anyway it's a start. Will need to watch a video or someone climb to get any idea how to but if the opportunity rises I'll be ready with my new digs.


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## Adkpk (Apr 9, 2007)

The equipment is here, all I need now is a tree and a prayer. The "Tree Climbers Companion looks like it's filled with all the goodies I need to a least get my feet off the ground. In the meantime I will be trying to line something up with a lesson or two. Thinking about getting to the Mass. rec climbing gtg in May. Here's to you guys.


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## 046 (Apr 9, 2007)

adrpk.... be careful! 

a good way to get hooked up is to go watch some jobs in action. 

it's hard not to see a few tree companies working nearby. 

go introduce yourself and ask if it's ok to watch from a safe distance. 
stay out of their drop zone. 

or get calling in the yellow pages.... you'll find someone that will let you watch and help out. 

it's amazing what help you'll get... if you simply ask.


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## Adkpk (Apr 9, 2007)

I've noticed that I got a twisted rope instead of braided. Everything I've read tells me that braided rope is better for climbing. I'm thinking of returning it for braided but realize I need twisted rope for splicing. I guess I should try it with the rope I have and if I can actually do it I can get the braided. 
"The Tree Climber's Companion" is a great help. 
I figure I'll have some knots down by the time the rec tree climbing gtg comes around, in May, and then watch those guys climb. In the meantime I'll be looking for climbers.


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## 046 (Apr 10, 2007)

you got the wrong rope. what you need is braided rope. not twisted. 
you have PM



Adrpk said:


> I've noticed that I got a twisted rope instead of braided. Everything I've read tells me that braided rope is better for climbing. I'm thinking of returning it for braided but realize I need twisted rope for splicing. I guess I should try it with the rope I have and if I can actually do it I can get the braided.
> "The Tree Climber's Companion" is a great help.
> I figure I'll have some knots down by the time the rec tree climbing gtg comes around, in May, and then watch those guys climb. In the meantime I'll be looking for climbers.


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## moray (Apr 10, 2007)

*2 cents*



Adrpk said:


> I've noticed that I got a twisted rope instead of braided. Everything I've read tells me that braided rope is better for climbing. I'm thinking of returning it for braided but realize I need twisted rope for splicing. I guess I should try it with the rope I have and if I can actually do it I can get the braided.
> "The Tree Climber's Companion" is a great help.



I've been watching this thread with some interest, as I only started climbing about a year and a half ago.

Here's my 2-cents' worth: Send back that huge wirecore flipline. Keep the rope and use it to splice a couple of safety lanyards. You have plenty of rope to practice several splices (it's not hard, but you need a fid) until you get the hang of it and your splices come out looking clean and tidy. Eight feet is too short--make yours 10 or 12 feet. Make them just like the ones in the catalogs with a nice aluminum snap and plastic thimble at one end and a backsplice at the other. Buy a couple of eye-and-eye split tails (3/8" tenex) to control your lanyards (you can make your own, but it will take you too long and save very little money). You can attach them to your harness with 3/8" steel screwlinks you can get in the hardware store. Now you're all set except for the climbing rope. 120 feet of a standard 1/2" braided rope will get you started. I like Arbormaster but the other ropes will all work.

There are many other goodies, like slack-tending pulleys, that can make life a lot easier, and once you have them you'll never want to be without them. If you rec climb for any length of time, you'll undoubtedly expand and modify your equipment.

Why 2 lanyards? A lot of reasons--see the Jepson manual. Here's a reason not mentioned there: the 2-in-1 lanyards (sometimes recommended as an alternative) are a PITA because they are not independent. Tightening one loosens the other. Also the symmetrical prusik knot used to control it is nearly worthless. I soon learned to hate my commercial 2-in-1, my first lanyard, and am very happy with my single replacements.

Have fun!


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## Adkpk (Apr 11, 2007)

Moray, I am going to take your advise for two reasons. One, I noticed the lanyard is already to short to fit around one of my practice trees ( the big oak at my shop). It is much heavier than I thought, too. Two, I need to get a helmet for a gtg I signed up for. I will exchange it for that.
It took me some time to look up all the other stuff you recommended. I had no idea what that stuff was. I am still not sure how it all works for me. Aluminum snap I got, plastic thimble, check. Eye to eye splitails, I know what they are but know not what they are use for, exactly, (hang equipment)? Slack tending pulleys I am assuming are the gadget to make ascending easier? Could you clear the use of those two items up for me. 
I will use the climbing gtg to figure out methods lanyards and what ever else I have no idea about. But that's a month away so keep it coming it is a lot to learn. 
I am studying knots and have managed to tie my throw weight to the line with a figure eight knot. I am working on the clove hitch which I know form the BS's. The, blakes hitch looks easy enough but have yet to make the time to tie my first. But you'll see I get up a tree yet!


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## moray (Apr 11, 2007)

Adrpk, here's an assembled lanyard. I removed the pulley to simplify things.

The screw link (you can use some other locking device if you want) is "permanently" attached to a side D ring. If you use a screw link, make sure it is well tightened with a wrench. Also make sure it is stamped with a sizeable SWL (mine say 2200 lbs). Go around the tree with the lanyard and snap to the other D ring. Use the friction knot to adjust the length to suit. 

The friction knot material is 3/8" tenex (eye and eye). The knot is a Schwabisch. The combination works very well.

Note the backsplice at rope end. This prevents your knot from sliding right off the end of the rope if you descend a few feet. It seems plenty sufficient for the purpose to me (I have hung on mine many times) but you may want to apply some other treatment (a big knot or a spliced eye around a thimble).

The second lanyard is just like the first, only it is "permanently" attached to the other D ring. It is helpful to have snaps of different colors.

Your questions are welcome; I hope this helps!


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## clearance (Apr 11, 2007)

moray said:


> Adrpk, here's an assembled lanyard. I removed the pulley to simplify things.
> 
> The screw link (you can use some other locking device if you want) is "permanently" attached to a side D ring. Make sure it is well tightened. Go around the tree with the lanyard and snap to the other D ring. Use the friction knot to adjust the length to suit.
> 
> ...



I don't like that screwlink, bought from a hardware store and all. It's not rated, it's not double locking. It is a good idea, (and the law here) to attach everything that your life depends on with double locking devices, caribiners or rope snaps with a 5000lbs. rating min. I also would not advise splicing yourself for this application, only certifed spicers are allowed to work on lifelines here, there is a reason for that. Don't take my advice to climb with spurs and a steelcore, fine, but I am on pretty solid ground with this advice.


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## moray (Apr 11, 2007)

clearance said:


> I am on pretty solid ground with this advice.



Thanks for your comments, clearance. I think you are on rock-solid ground with your advice. In my comments I made it clear to Adrpk that there were alternatives to the methods I was showing. No way would I suggest someone, especially a beginner, cut any safety corners. But I don't think you have to strictly follow the book to be safe.

The screwlink you see is rated at 1000 KG SWL. I feel 100% safe using it which is why I show it. It has the advantage over a snap or biner of being small, leaving more room on the D for other stuff. You can pound the hell out of it with no effect, unlike a biner that can actually be opened by whacking the gate from the outside. And you can cross-load it with far less strength-reduction than would occur with a biner. Even though I mentioned 3/8" as the gauge of the screwlink, I was remiss in not recommending it be one with a safe working load stamped on it.

Splicing. I spliced my first 3-strand rope shortly after I started climbing. The rope manufacturers themselves recommend splices rather than knots wherever possible. As far as I am aware, you don't have to send your ropes in to an ANZI-certified technician to have your knots tied for you. Why splices?

I would have some reservations in advising that just anyone should go ahead and make their own splices in braided rope. But I don't have those reservations about 3-strand, and that's the only kind I suggested Adrpk should try. With 3-strand you can easily see what kind of job you have done, the process is very simple, and you can (should) leave nice visible tails after the last tuck. If they start to slip into the splice, you will know it. I have never seen the slightest sign that mine have slipped, even when I tested one once with about 800 lbs. You can make safe splices just from instructions on the rope manufacturers' web sites, but I would recommend Adrpk get a copy of Brion Toss's video on splicing, which is both educational and entertaining.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 11, 2007)

moray said:


> Adrpk, here's an assembled lanyard. I removed the pulley to simplify things.
> 
> The screw link (you can use some other locking device if you want) is "permanently" attached to a side D ring. Make sure it is well tightened. Go around the tree with the lanyard and snap to the other D ring. Use the friction knot to adjust the length to suit.
> 
> ...


 good except for the screw link they should be double locked as they can loosen and if they do could be a hazard.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 11, 2007)

I would prefer another snap for safe climbing!


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## Adkpk (Apr 11, 2007)

Well done, pics! Oh boy, this is getting good. I worked on my splicing today for a little while. Didn't have my book with me so I didn't reach any finished splices but I definitely got a feel for it. I am good with rope, was a lasher of many things in the BS's. I also got into macrame for a while. I braid things out of leather all the time for key chains and things. 
Sent the rope and lanyard back today. Spent some time on the phone with a salesman from Bailey's. Looks like I am going to buy 150' of Arborplex. I'm trading the lanyard for a helmet so I can get in on the gtg coming up. 
I am not sure which climbing system to use but I like the 'tree walking' method Ekka showed in a video, mostly because he makes it look simple and with not much hardware. Not sure about the foot method and the others I am not familiar with the others. 
Looked at screw links at the hardware store today and they were twice the price as Bailey's, soooo. 
I am going to study and go over the lanyard equipment and possibilities. One question about cutting through it with a chain saw. Isn't that why they use wire core? Definitely like the idea of keeping it light, (In the finale of my climbing career I would be taking out tops of trees back on my property in order to drop them without taking out the rest of the woods, that is a ways off time wise) so what's up, safety wise cutting with a rope lanyard?


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## beowulf343 (Apr 11, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> I am going to study and go over the lanyard equipment and possibilities. One question about cutting through it with a chain saw. Isn't that why they use wire core? Definitely like the idea of keeping it light, (In the finale of my climbing career I would be taking out tops of trees back on my property in order to drop them without taking out the rest of the woods, that is a ways off time wise) so what's up, safety wise cutting with a rope lanyard?



DON'T CUT THE LANYARD WITH YOUR SAW AND THERE WILL BE NO SAFETY PROBLEMS. 

But seriously, have tried steelcore, but don't like it. So been climbing 12 years with rope lanyards and no problems yet. Nicked a lanyard several years ago nothing more serious than that. Have to always keep your mind on the job-always know where your saw is and where it's going to be. And always tie in twice, just in case something does happen. Always use a lanyard and my climbing line when chunking down a stem, just in case i do cut my lanyard, can fall back onto my climbing line. But control of the saw is vital to keeping your lanyard in one piece.


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## moray (Apr 11, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> DON'T CUT THE LANYARD WITH YOUR SAW AND THERE WILL BE NO SAFETY PROBLEMS.



Nice discussion, everybody!

I would just like to add the general comment that all the safety regs and double-locking this and double-locking that can't replace judgment. But judgment can replace some of that other stuff. I agree with ropensaddle that screwlinks can come loose--mine sometimes do. That's why I use some judgment and check them once in awhile. Not to say I wouldn't prefer something the same size with a bulletproof closure. I could tighten the screwlinks with a wrench, or use loc-tite, but I don't. I just check them once in awhile. I have seen some bad hardware clash at my side D's, and I really like knowing those tough little screwlinks can take it.

As to the steelcore lanyard, I agree with the quote. Maybe if I were a pro cutting faster than hell day in and day out, I might like the extra security of steelcore, but I'm not. I love using my saw in the tree, but I take my sweet time and crank the judgment dial up to the max.


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## 046 (Apr 11, 2007)

here's treesypder's knot page. one of the best around

http://www.mytreelessons.com/Flash/knots/simpleBends_2.swf


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## moray (Apr 12, 2007)

*I am backing down...*



TreeCo said:


> I tighten mine with a wrench like they are designed to be done. I have two deltas on my Butterfly saddle for the leg loops.



I have edited my second post, inserting two ideas: a screw link should be tightened with a wrench, and it should be stamped with a sufficient SWL.

For myself, I think I may start using a wrench on my screw links. It will cost me something in convenience every time I need to clean pitch off the lanyard or want to remove it for some other reason, but it will give me some minor amount of extra security. Probably about a wash. But I will give it a try. 

But I should have been more prudent in my suggestions to a beginner. After Adrpk has thrown his lanyard around a few thousand limbs and trunks, as I have, he can safely make his own judgments about a lot of this stuff.

As to the wisdom of using screw links in the first place, I stand by that. I have tried both locking biners and rope snaps and didn't like either. There is no other connector I am aware of that is as small, simple, and tough as a screw link. And it is much less likely to cause and much less likely to be susceptible to clash with other stuff at the Dee.


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## Adkpk (Apr 12, 2007)

Good one 046. But I hope you all have been to this site. http://www.animatedknots.com/knotlist.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

BTW, I have put this in here. 046 put his money where his mouth is on posting a , let's see how do I call it, a misleading link. He took responsiblity for posting a link to some rope that wasn't exactly what is best for climbing. I had my eye on that rope before he posted the link and didn't compute that is was twisted instead of braided. I take full responsability for the purchase. Anyway, this standup guy actually offered me the change for the shipping to cover his mistake. So I say, hail  046 you can fight on my team anyday.


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## Adkpk (Apr 12, 2007)

*bio*

A little about myself. It is unlikely I will fall out of a tree due to bad choice of links or some type of equipment failure. I build stone retaining walls for a living and know something about loading rigs. I have never hurt myself or anyone else on the job. (Save a few stitches from lawnmower blades). Safety is key when it comes to gravity. I will take what ever is being said on this post and use to the best of my ability. Certainly not as how it should be done as much as how it can be done. So far what has been said has been constructive and helpful. I especially am getting ideas out of this lanyard posting. 
I almost have a clue on how to stick yourself to the tree but am still almost clueless as to how to pull yourself up. Keep up the good work I'm learning.


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## Adkpk (Apr 12, 2007)

Got some more equiment today. Arborplex rope, helmet, micro pulley, split tail, caribiner, and an aluminum rope snap. Going with the split tail system. But now that I sent the twisted rope back need something to make the lanyard with. I thought 120' feet of rope was a bit much to make lanyards with but now I don't have any. Didn't realize short hanks of rope were hard to find. Like to have 30' feet of three strand rope, anybody got any ideas on how to get some of that?


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## moray (Apr 12, 2007)

Good going, Adrpk, nice to see you're really chasing it down.

I use Samson Tree Master (1/2") for my lanyards. I also tried some Pro-Master, but didn't like it as well.

You can buy it by the foot if you ask (Sherrill, Wesspur). I got mine at Wesspur, but Sherrill is a lot closer to you.

Tree Master is a VERY hard lay rope, meaning it is very tough to separate the strands for splicing. You need a steel fid to do the job (I like the one made by Brion Toss (Port Hudson?). The good thing about the Tree Master is that it makes one tough and durable lanyard.

Pro-Master makes a serviceable lanyard, and it is a lot easier to splice, especially if you're new to the art. It's also very comfortable to hold. But the rope doesn't have a hard surface, is much limper, and seems more likely to snag on something rough. I doubt if it is nearly as durable.

You probably need about 3 feet more rope than the final lanyard length (remember the backsplice), and you'll probably eat up 10 feet or so practicing before you go for the real thing.

I hope you will post pictures when your first splice comes out of the oven. If you post it here, or PM me, I'll try to critique it for you...

Keep charging!


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## beowulf343 (Apr 12, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> Got some more equiment today. Arborplex rope, helmet, micro pulley, split tail, caribiner, and an aluminum rope snap. Going with the split tail system.



So which is going on the split tail-the snap or the biner?

And what kind of tail did you pick up?

Going with a closed system or not?


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## Adkpk (Apr 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> So which is going on the split tail-the snap or the biner?
> 
> And what kind of tail did you pick up?
> 
> Going with a closed system or not?



The biner goes with the new england high vee 6' split tail. The snap is for the lanyard but I think I canceled that when they told me they(Bailey's) stopped selling short hanks of rope.
Closed system or not, is this a test? :biggrinbounce2: I don't know? What is closed or the other, please?
Started to think of steel core lanyard again must be getting nervous. Maybe a 12' one. 
The guy I'm dealing with at Bailey's isn't just selling stuff to me. He actually is offering advise. That's really something.  
The lanyard is really just for when you stop to do some work in tree, right. So what's the rush. First I got to find a way to get up and down a few times before bringing a chainsaw with me. I still don't understand how it's done but I am learning.


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## beowulf343 (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok-how are you attaching the rope to your saddle?

Closed system-both ends of the tail terminate on the biner.

No offense-but is the guy at baileys offering advice or trying to sell you something you don't need.

Lanyards are handy if you need to reposition your rope too. I always carry one-have had odd things happen where it is handy to have one.

Not trying to sound like a jerk-just genuinely curious. Like to see a newbie give it a go. Good luck.


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## Adkpk (Apr 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Ok-how are you attaching the rope to your saddle?
> 
> Closed system-both ends of the tail terminate on the biner.
> 
> ...



Open then because I only got one eye on the split tail. What is the advantage to closed? 

Actually the guy at Bailey's advised I not buy something because he thought I wouldn't need it. And it was the most expensive thing on my list. 

Don't mind sounding like a jerk beowolf I can learn from your mistakes.  

Just keep it coming I'll try my best to sort it out as I get it. And then the test run. I am getting a little ancious. Wish it wasn't such a busy time of year for me. 

I'll call Sherrill in the morning to ask if they have some short hanks.


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## Adkpk (Apr 13, 2007)

First attempt at an eye splice.


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## moray (Apr 13, 2007)

*not too bad*

Can you give us a closer view, especially the first couple of tucks nearest the eye? As you by now know, that part isn't quite as smooth sailing as the rest.

Looks like a very soft rope, like you can splice it without a fid. Excellent to practice on, though. Most of my practice eyes, made in soft rope, ended up in useful things like tiedown ropes for my pickup, a nice little lanyard for my chainsaw, etc. Once you can do it, every rope looks like it wants you to put an eye it it...

One good trick, almost essential in the really hard-lay ropes, is to flatten the strands (take out all the twist, contrary to what you'll read most places) as you tuck them. You get a cleaner, less-distorted splice, and probably better friction in the tucks. I think I saw TreeSpyder mention this one time, and Brion Toss discusses it.

Fun!


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## Adkpk (Apr 14, 2007)

moray said:


> Can you give us a closer view, especially the first couple of tucks nearest the eye? As you by now know, that part isn't quite as smooth sailing as the rest.
> 
> Looks like a very soft rope, like you can splice it without a fid. Excellent to practice on, though. Most of my practice eyes, made in soft rope, ended up in useful things like tiedown ropes for my pickup, a nice little lanyard for my chainsaw, etc. Once you can do it, every rope looks like it wants you to put an eye it it...
> 
> ...



I am on dial up, up here, no time for loading pics. Got to get out and get some plywood to put a roof on the woodshed. Look for the pics when I post them, I think, it came out pretty good. 
I think I got the first couple of tucks wrong also. Yes, it is soft rope. I found it on a job somewhere and find it to be an excellant practice rope. 
Man you were right about the keeping the twisted rope, darn it. Short hanks are not cheap. 
Hey, Moray, you are doing real well on my end with the posting. Chock full of info. The confidence is building. I will do a google search for Brion Toss, I'm thinking he is a knot guy. Tree Spyder, I know, I've seen him around.


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## Adkpk (Apr 16, 2007)

Treemaster rope is on the way. Got a bunch of other stuff also, eyelets, splicing kit, rope grab. 

I was wondering if anyone could explain how I tie into this weaver double dee saddle. The two dees are confusing me as to what type of tie in I need to use?


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## osb_mail (Apr 16, 2007)

The 2 center dees are for use with a split tail . You tie one end of your rope on a carabiner hook to 1 dee and hook your split tail on another carabiner hook it to dee 2 then tie your friction hitch with the split tail . That way you can pass limbs without retyeing your hitch . If dont have a split tail just hook up to both rings .


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## beowulf343 (Apr 16, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> I was wondering if anyone could explain how I tie into this weaver double dee saddle. The two dees are confusing me as to what type of tie in I need to use?



Two d's? A tree saddle should have either 2 d's and a bridge, 3 d's, or 4 d's. Are you talking about the two lower d's? Simply bring the d's together and clip into them. Or if you are using a split tail, you can either bring the d's together and clip both your rope and split tail into them, or you can clip your rope into one and your split tail into the other. The two upper d's should be used for your lanyard.

Simply-take your rope, run through crotch(i always go right to left), bring down to saddle, attach to lower left d. Attach split tail to lower right d and tie your friction hitch. Good to go. If you don't like the lower d's seperated, simply clip them together with both your rope snap and split tail snap.


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## Adkpk (Apr 16, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Two d's? A tree saddle should have either 2 d's and a bridge, 3 d's, or 4 d's. Are you talking about the two lower d's? Simply bring the d's together and clip into them. Or if you are using a split tail, you can either bring the d's together and clip both your rope and split tail into them, or you can clip your rope into one and your split tail into the other. The two upper d's should be used for your lanyard.
> 
> Simply-take your rope, run through crotch(i always go right to left), bring down to saddle, attach to lower left d. Attach split tail to lower right d and tie your friction hitch. Good to go. If you don't like the lower d's seperated, simply clip them together with both your rope snap and split tail snap.



Thanks Beowulf, I wondered if there was a piece of equipment I left out. I think I can actually get into the tree now, as far as equipment goes. Or as soon as the package comes. And I make up a lanyard. I'll be back with splicing questions I'm sure. 
What is the test that should be preformed after assembling your own lanyard. 
Maybe towing a car with it?


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## nytreeman (Apr 18, 2007)

I use a spreader snap keeps the d-rings from drawing in together and squeezing your guts 

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49403&stc=1&d=1176899438


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## moray (Apr 18, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> What is the test that should be preformed after assembling your own lanyard.
> Maybe towing a car with it?



Sure, tow your car. I would do it in a short practice piece in which you have made an eye in each end. When it doesn't break or deform, you will have great confidence in your lanyard.

Here's a well-used lanyard splice. Views from opposite sides.







Note the geometry at the throat of the eye. Also note the strands are flattened and untwisted where they are tucked. Finally, this one was tapered by cutting away half of each strand where it emerged after the 5th tuck, then tucking the remaining halves one more time. This softens the transition between splice and rope.


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## beowulf343 (Apr 18, 2007)

moray said:


> Sure, tow your car. I would do it in a *short practice piece* in which you have made an eye in each end. When it doesn't break or deform, you will have great confidence in your lanyard.



Note-the car should not be pulled with the finished lanyard.


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## moray (Apr 18, 2007)

*Towing Car*

Exactly


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## Adkpk (Apr 26, 2007)

nytreeman said:


> I use a spreader snap keeps the d-rings from drawing in together and squeezing your guts
> 
> Thanks, nytreeman, was looking for that kind of answer. The spreader snaps are on the way.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49403&stc=1&d=1176899438





moray said:


> Sure, tow your car. I would do it in a short practice piece in which you have made an eye in each end. When it doesn't break or deform, you will have great confidence in your lanyard.
> 
> Here's a well-used lanyard splice. Views from opposite sides.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I was away, came on to add something to the thread and see you've added some pics, great. Did manage to get a decent eye splice out of that old rope finally. I didn't know about the untwisting thing, good one. I got my treemaster rope from Sherrill but seem to have screwed up my Bailey's order for the splicing kit, rope snaps, eyelets and a few other things I might need. 
In the mean time I am tying up everything I can find. 



beowulf343 said:


> Note-the car should not be pulled with the finished lanyard.



Good one, lol. 

So, I found a half hour and a tree today. Got off the ground anyway. Good news I liked it. I wasn't scared. Made every mistake in the book getting the tree saver set (luckily I had a ladder handy) but seemed to do a good job on the Blake's hitch. I got scared at about 10' feet when I realized I hadn't tried to descend. But it worked fine so I went back up, only ten feet again. Don't want to push my luck before I get confirmed on my knot tying. 
The saddle felt good and I am anxious to get it going. Thanks guys and keep up the good work.


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## treejackyl (Apr 27, 2007)

*new to bess. but not green*

i think you should have somebody help teach you hands on and watch some experts climb before you strap on gear.safety first dude.....happy climbing


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## Adkpk (Apr 27, 2007)

*my splice*

This is what I got. Any criticisms?


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## moray (Apr 28, 2007)

*Nice work!*






It looks nice and clean. If you can do that well with Tree Master, you will have a bullet-proof lanyard.

When I was studying your photos, I compared them with several of my old splices. Then I remembered there are a couple of ways to start the eye. You have used what I would call the standard method, but a possibly better and maybe simpler way is the sailor's flat eye splice. 

I have shown your splice with an arrow pointing to the critical strand. My second splice (red snap) is done exactly the same way. The blue snap is done with the flat eye splice. It actually is flatter, meaning less likely for the first strand to get abraded in use. Sailors liked it for that reason.

How to make it: when you fold the rope around to form the eye, one of the 3 free strands will contact the rope. This is #1. Tuck it under the strand it contacted, right on top of the rope, not off to either side. Pull it tight, then go over one and tuck it again. Snug it up nice and tight. This is the only time you take a strand and tuck it twice. Now tuck each of the other two strands once. Pull them tight. All three strands should now be at the same level. From now on you proceed in the standard way. Try it in your soft rope.

The bottom photo shows how to make a false crotch in Tree Master. These are tough. I sometimes leave one up in a tree for weeks or months with some clothes line laced through it. If I want to climb that tree for any reason, I can have my rope in place in about 30 seconds.


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## SRT-Tech (Apr 29, 2007)

NICE!! now get some large heavywall heat shrink tubing and place it over the splice and and use a hair dryer to shrink it tight, will protect the splice and finish off the splice nicely.


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## Adkpk (May 7, 2007)

*update*

The splicing kit is on back order. I am cutting it real close with the gtg on Saturday as far as getting the lanyard together. I was hoping to have time to get it together so I could have a couple of those guys inspect it. I might have a night or two to splice it together, I will need to get it right the first time. 
That old rope I was using to practice with had a lot of nylon in it. I melted it to harden it and rolled a tip on each end that is how I was able to splice it. The tree master is loose and flimsy after you unravel it. I will definitely need a tool to thread it. 
Set up my cambium saver again with the throw line and practiced knot tying. Got up a few feet into the tree again. It feels good but won't go any further until I get someone to inspect my knots. 
I am definitely satisfied with the endeavor so far. It is a lot to learn about just getting into the tree. I am looking forward to see how I will handle the heights.


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## beowulf343 (May 7, 2007)

Wait a minute-there's a gtg this Saturday in NY? How did i miss that?


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## Adkpk (May 7, 2007)

That's how rumors start. The gtg is in Mass. It's a three and a half hour ride for me from our weekender but I will combine with a visit to my sisters. Who is conveniently down the street from the gtg. If you haven't read about it check out the rec climbing forum.


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## moray (May 7, 2007)

I wondered where you'd gone, Adrpk.

To keep the strands from unravelling, wrap a piece of electrical tape very tightly around the end of each strand.

To keep the 3 strands together where the splice will begin, tie some string tightly around the rope at that point. After you have made the first couple of tucks, you can cut it free. I do this before I start to unlay the rope.

If your fid doesn't arrive in time, you could still make a lanyard by tieing a snap to one end and a figure 8 stopper knot in the other. After the gtg, you can untie everything and use the same rope to remake the lanyard using splices instead of knots. Might be a good idea to get a little practice using the lanyard before the gtg anyway. The climbers on Saturday are going to have a ton of equipment, enough to thoroughly confuse a newbie. The more you have fooled around with your own stuff, the more it will make sense and the more you will absorb. Good luck!


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## Adkpk (May 10, 2007)

Still no splicing kit. Ugggh! 

Talked to an arborist today. Some guy I know in passing over the years. He cleared up a few things for me. Help me build my confidence. "Ya sure, climbing is good exercise". A little different than some other advise people give. Climbing a tree could be fun and useful too. My drive to work every morning is for sure more dangerous but I don't hear people saying not to do that. 

Anyway he cleared some things up about the cambium saver. He said not to use one to get into the tree just up in the tree where you won't be climbing to. He told me about a two rope system that is easier and safer. I read about some guys talking about it on another thread somewhere in here.


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## Adkpk (May 15, 2007)

*made it*

Well, I did it, got up my first tree. I got up an oak at the mass gtg. According to the others it sounds like I might be on my way to becoming a tree climber. And I like it. 
Finally got the splicing kit. Will try to find time tonight to fiddle with it. In the meantime I made one myself with some double fishermans knots.




I hung on this the other night and noticed I wouldn't last too long on it if I had to. I am very comfortable in the saddle but hanging on the outside d's really hurt. Anybody know if this is what it is or am I doing something wrong?


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## moray (May 15, 2007)

Wecome back and congratulations!

You're not doing anything wrong. Hanging from the Dees IS uncomfortable. But you seldom will need to do that in real life. If you need to be supported from above, use your climbing rope, which will be attached to the front Dee or the bridge of your harness, which supports your weight via your leg loops.

The side Dees and the safety are meant to support you horizontally, and in that mode the safety is very comfortable.

Incidentally, I looked at a lot of the pictures from the gtg in Mass. That looked like a pretty hairy tree for a beginner. Did you go up SRT? 

I can't tell from your pic if the prusik knot on your temporary safety is a true prusik or a Schwabisch. In my experience, the true prusik is way too grabby, and needs a lot of attention to keep it from locking up.


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## Adkpk (May 15, 2007)

moray said:


> Wecome back and congratulations!
> 
> You're not doing anything wrong. Hanging from the Dees IS uncomfortable. But you seldom will need to do that in real life. If you need to be supported from above, use your climbing rope, which will be attached to the front Dee or the bridge of your harness, which supports your weight via your leg loops.
> 
> ...



Drt. 

Its a prusik. But I will turn around right now and put a Schwabisch on it. Thanks. 

I am thinking of going to the local arborist store tomorrow and buying another 150' rope and a pulley. Thinking of trying srt. Anybody on what rope to look for?


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## Adkpk (May 15, 2007)

Excuse me. I called this srt but I think it is drt also. 
A local arborist instructed on an interesting technique and I want to take him up on it. He said, to just pull a pulley up on a rope with your climb line attached to it and pull myself up on that. Says it's a lot less work and you don't need a cambium saver. Question is, what is a good rope for this? What would compliment the arborplex, which I assume I would use to pull up the rope, I would climb up on?


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## moray (May 15, 2007)

About SRT, even though I love it for going up and coming down, I would respectfully recommend you wait a bit. For two main reasons.

1. It requires a lot more equipment besides the smaller diameter rope. How you hook this up so you are safe in case an ascender or rappel device fails is something you need to be concerned about. You have to attach the rope to the tree somehow. You may need to worry about doubled loads at the tie-in point. You can't quickly switch from ascending to descending.

2. For most people (Tree Machine is an exception) SRT doesn't replace standard practice, so you still need to be adept at that. Standard Drt is faster to set up, simpler to operate, much easier to reposition in the tree.

I was using a sort of hybrid system for awhile before I got fully outfitted for SRT. I had one CMI expedition ascender that worked beautifully on 1/2 inch climbing rope. I put an adjustable Tenex footloop on it, but kept my other foot free. The ascender went on the rope just below the friction hitch. Essentially it was just a very easy way of footlocking up the rope. I still use this method sometimes when I'm using a Drt setup but have to climb more than 10 or 15 feet. It has the advantages of SRT (but only half as fast) without most of the disadvantages (most significantly no need for a descender).


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## moray (May 15, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> Excuse me. I called this srt but I think it is drt also.
> A local arborist instructed on an interesting technique and I want to take him up on it. He said, to just pull a pulley up on a rope with your climb line attached to it and pull myself up on that. Says it's a lot less work and you don't need a cambium saver. Question is, what is a good rope for this? What would compliment the arborplex, which I assume I would use to pull up the rope, I would climb up on?



I would consider this technique as basically a fancy cambium saver. Just like in real SRT, you don't have to isolate the limb. Just like SRT, the load on the limb is doubled. If you're going to this much trouble, might as well just go up the line SRT rather than pull a pulley up and go up Drt. But maybe there would be good reasons for doing it that way sometimes...

But climbing Drt under a pulley is VERY nice. I do it a lot. Only I haven't ever installed a pulley the way you suggest.


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## StoneGully (May 16, 2007)

Adrpk, I started reading your thread and I noticed you said something like, "once i get some rope I'll start practicing knots." I practice knots all the time. I carry a two foot piece of 1/4" clothesline (cotton braid over felt core) I practice knots all the time, at red lights, at meetings, while watching crap on TV. An anchor knot against an index finger, bowlines, running bowlines, blake's hitch, prusik, tautline, sheet bend, square knots, figure eights, double overhand, single and double fisherman's knots to make loops, cats paw, triple crown knot, butterfly, slip, figure eight on bight, etc. I think tree climber's companion mentioned this first and I have been doing it since. Keeps your hands nimble. it doesn't take long for you to be bale to do it without watching your hands. 

Another book to read would be "Fundamentals of General Tree Work".


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## Adkpk (May 16, 2007)

StoneGully said:


> Adrpk, I started reading your thread and I noticed you said something like, "once i get some rope I'll start practicing knots." I practice knots all the time. I carry a two foot piece of 1/4" clothesline (cotton braid over felt core) I practice knots all the time, at red lights, at meetings, while watching crap on TV. An anchor knot against an index finger, bowlines, running bowlines, blake's hitch, prusik, tautline, sheet bend, square knots, figure eights, double overhand, single and double fisherman's knots to make loops, cats paw, triple crown knot, butterfly, slip, figure eight on bight, etc. I think tree climber's companion mentioned this first and I have been doing it since. Keeps your hands nimble. it doesn't take long for you to be bale to do it without watching your hands.
> 
> Another book to read would be "Fundamentals of General Tree Work".



I use a shoestring at my desk and use the key ring as a t.i.p. I do have, "Fundamentals of General Tree Work" and find it a wise buy. I use a basic method of climbing and what to keep it that way for a while. I try to keep it simple for now as I don't get a lot of chances to get in a tree, although I try. I have plenty of time before I need to use rigging knots. But I have heard before that to be able to knots blindfolded is a good idea. I think I can do a couple now, blakes hitch, figure eight, double fishermans. In the meantime watch where your driving. :biggrinbounce2:


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## Adkpk (May 22, 2007)

Finally got the splicing kit. I am not sure if this is right but here it is. It's tight and seems as it would hold.


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## moray (May 23, 2007)

I would hang from it.

Looks like you may have as many as 9 tucks in that puppy--about 5 more than you need. But it it looks clean, you flattened the strands before tucking, and it will NEVER break or pull apart!

That Tree Master is tough going. If you can splice that, you can splice anything.


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## Adkpk (May 23, 2007)

Excellent, I really thought I had a problem on the top of the splice. I enjoyed doing it. Great pastime when you have time to sit. 

I am looking at another piece of rope, trueblue to be exact. Thinking of using the false crotch, srt technique. Might be a while, haven't been on a rope since the rec climb. Waiting for my cambium saver, which I left behind, to be mailed back. 
In a bit of a bind with cash right now. But when I get some cash and I have some climbing time in the bag that is where I am thinking of going with it. What do you think of 'trueblue', anybody?


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## Adkpk (Jun 6, 2007)

*graditude*

Thanks guys, looks like I am no longer "looking to try climbing". I am up a tree.
I got my lanyard spliced up and using it to do all sorts of things. I got two 150' ropes and a bunch or other gear. I have learned a lot on this thread and want to thank all that participated. 
I have a new appreciation for you arborist (tree climbers). And I can appreciate my line of work (landscaping) even more now. I appreciate making money from the ground and not having to climb up a tree first to do it. More power to you fellows out there doing that stuff every day.
I will continue to enjoy climbing for years now learning more as I go. I got to see the rooftops at the back of my shop today for the first time. It's exciting. My landlord and I get along pretty well and have gotten into a few projects in the past. He is not having any problems with me trimming dead branches out of his huge red oak in the back yard. It is a great practice tree. Challenging yet safe in that it is an oak with a lot of branches to climb around in once I get in it. 
I will keep it basic, still using the blakes hitch and not looking to buy ascenders or anything too fancy. Need to keep practicing knots, still referring to the climbers companion. One of these days I will do the job which got me thinking about climbing in the first place and get up some trees at my wood lot upstate. 
Anyway, AS has come through again and helped someone reach a seemingly imposable goal, as easily as clicking a mouse (and of course burning some calories). Here's to you guys, climb safe. Bob


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 7, 2007)

YEAH! Glad to hear you are having fun and challenging yourself. I have been on this site for only a short amount of time and have gained so much practical insite from the "veteran" climbers. Their advice,warnings, and recommendations have helped me improve the quality of my work through more efficient climbing, given me different methods and techniques to grow my skills, and encouraged me to keep a level of excellence in all aspects of treecare. With that said, I too would like to add my "Thank You" to all of you for your words of wisdom ( and humour!)


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## duckbuster_13 (Jun 25, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> First attempt at an eye splice.



I'm new to this tree climbing stuff, but am VERY interested... so i've read every post in this thread so far. 

But here is my question, what is the advantage to splicing the rope to create a closed loop rather than doing a retraced figure 8 or an overhand on a bite?
One would assume that perhaps eliminating the bends in the rope to create a stronger "knot" would be the reason... but it seems hardly necessary. 
I come from a rock climbing background... so please excuse my ignorance, but i am genuinely curious in the benefits of this method. 

Thanks!


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## moray (Jun 25, 2007)

duckbuster_13 said:


> But here is my question, what is the advantage to splicing the rope to create a closed loop rather than doing a retraced figure 8 or an overhand on a bite?
> One would assume that perhaps eliminating the bends in the rope to create a stronger "knot" would be the reason... but it seems hardly necessary.
> 
> Thanks!



You are right--strength isn't the issue. Convenience and lack of bulk are the main advantages of the splice. When you are maneuvering through thick branches the less crap hanging off your belt the better. And when you are trying to clip or unclip your safety or climbing rope, big knots just clog up the works.

Incidentally, one of the main differences between the two worlds of rope work is that for rock climbers it is mainly just protection whereas for us it is the major tool for getting up and moving around. Our weight is on the rope almost anytime it is in use. And we don't fall on our ropes--that could be deadly.


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## duckbuster_13 (Jun 25, 2007)

moray said:


> You are right--strength isn't the issue. Convenience and lack of bulk are the main advantages of the splice. When you are maneuvering through thick branches the less crap hanging off your belt the better. And when you are trying to clip or unclip your safety or climbing rope, big knots just clog up the works.
> 
> Incidentally, one of the main differences between the two worlds of rope work is that for rock climbers it is mainly just protection whereas for us it is the major tool for getting up and moving around. Our weight is on the rope almost anytime it is in use. And we don't fall on our ropes--that could be deadly.



Thank you! Very concise and helpful explanation. I appreciate it!


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