# Climbing queen palms, help needed



## n8huntsman (Apr 8, 2012)

Hello. I've been trimming queens with an extension ladder, but now they are approaching 30' and the ladder is becoming dangerous. I was really considering using a tree stand and flip line but after some reading also want to consider more traditional approaches such as... an SRT and ascender? Can someone give me some suggestions on methods to use so that I can begin to research this stuff so that I can do it in the safest manner possible? Climbing with ropes has been intriguing to me forever, just never got into it. If this is a better method than the tree stand, I'd prefer it, just want to start small to learn. Some things I'm concerned with are throwing a rope over the palm. I don't want to hurt the heart of the palm. I'd also like the ability to start small on use the same technique on smaller, 20', palms without hurting them. Is there a better technique such as a false crotch that can be used on these trees? 
Thanks


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## mattfr12 (Apr 9, 2012)

Rent a lift rope climbing isn't something you wanna just jump into. tie one knot wrong its lights out.


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## arborjockey (Apr 9, 2012)

Tie another ladder onto the end of your extension ladder. or how about this.....call a tree company and go back to cleaning gutters while you practice climbing for awhile.Then again anybody can climb....1st thing go buy some spikes.....no no wait rent a bigger extension ladder....no no get the lift yeah yeah get the lift. :msp_razz::msp_razz:


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## n8huntsman (Apr 9, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> tie one knot wrong its lights out.


That's why I'm here! I'm going to do it. How safely depends on how much help I get. I don't expect to be spoon fed, just pointed in the right direction, and maybe a safety check before I buy or do something. I'm not going to do something I'm not 100% comfortable with. Please don't forget that everyone started somewhere.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 9, 2012)

Seems like you would be better off getting some training. One day with Jose Mercado at your site will pay for itself.
Jeff


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## k5alive (Apr 9, 2012)

I try not to throw a rope in palms, i've seen them snap at 20-60 ft. You can rent an electric man lift for cheap and get done faster, i used to use ladders but one split on me like a zipper. best advice i can offer


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## arborjockey (Apr 9, 2012)

we use these In bicicletta sulle palme

I looked up Queens palm to see whats going on
by studying google images this is what I conclude


#1 climb up the placed 2x4
#2 climb up on the back of your truck
#3 push it over, prune it, put it back


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## k5alive (Apr 9, 2012)

damn i wish i knew italian


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## beastmaster (Apr 9, 2012)

We have a 32 ft extension ladder just for those rare kings and queens over 25ft. I am not comfortable on ladders my self at lest tell their secured at the top. Once tied in my self they can take that Da_ _ed ladder. I have only seen one queen over 35ft and have done it several times. Its maybe 37ft. I use the ladder, then spike up rest the way. Don't take that as a green light to spike kings and queen palms. It really makes them ugly with a bunch of holes in them, and if They regularly grow that tall I would find an different technic.
Where in murreita are you finding queens that tall? I work that way every now and again.
Hell don't you have a pole saw? Prune them with it, or use it to push up a running bowline on the end of your climbing line. and climb up. Might be kind of slow, but their not that tall. Bid them real high and call me. I'm in Riverside.
No matter where your at out this way some illegal with a p/u truck will spike em for almost nothing and underbid you anyway


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## beastmaster (Apr 9, 2012)

k5alive said:


> damn i wish i knew italian



www. 
treeclimbing.it 
Cycling on the palms
The "bicycle" represents a revolution in the concept of climbing palms. So named because of its two metal circles, this tool offers us a great operational safety and, unlike traditional crampons, not damage the door jamb of the plant. 
Although its history dates back to Switzerland in the thirties, where he was born to use forestry, we have to Spanish, and in particular to Jose Sanchez Plumed, the recent introduction of the bicycle in the world of palm trees. 
In the present version, the steel bands are adjustable to allow adaptation to changes in stem diameter. Small platforms allow us to work "standing" with great comfort and less fatigue.	
Cycling on 2003 palms 
Photos of Mark Asprea

professional courses contact technical knots about us equipment trees links


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## arborjockey (Apr 9, 2012)

:msp_sadh we forgot to tell you their $2,500:msp_unsure:


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## n8huntsman (Apr 10, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> Where in murreita are you finding queens that tall?



My neighbors back yard, lol. It's about 30' right now and I believe it's still growing. It may be done, but regardless, if there is a safer way to get up there, I'd like to attempt it.



beastmaster said:


> Prune them with it, or use it to push up a running bowline on the end of your climbing line. and climb up. Might be kind of slow, but their not that tall.


This was on my list of considerations. So I think I may focus my research along this path. Thanks




beastmaster said:


> Bid them real high and call me. I'm in Riverside.
> No matter where your at out this way some illegal with a p/u truck will spike em for almost nothing and underbid you anyway


This is actualy not for money. My neighbor and I are good friends. I have about 15 queens that will be tall somday too. I'd like to learn how to get to them, before that happens. I'm a little OCD about them and would like to trim them 3 or 4 times a year; every time a pod forms, a branch turns brown, or starts to droop. Hiring someone or renting a bucket would get far too expensive for that and spiking them that often would totally wreck them. This is the reason I'm after a better solution.


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## n8huntsman (Apr 10, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> www.
> treeclimbing.it
> Cycling on the palms
> The "bicycle" represents a revolution in the concept of climbing palms.



I saw these several months ago when I first started searching for a better method, but since this is not for profit, it's out of my price range. This is what lead me to contemplating the hunting tree stand. I saw a video on youtube where a Hawaiian company was using a modified climbing tree stand to do just this and it looked like a good idea. I've also heard others on the forums use it as well. I just need to make sure that I have an addition point of tie in because falling isn't an option. So I don't know if this could be a flip line, or maybe a running bowline?


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## n8huntsman (Apr 10, 2012)

Check these out, although you've probably all seen it.
Spikeless palm climbing platform - YouTube
Pure Life Palm Trimmers : Spikeless Coconut Climbing on Maui Hawaii - YouTube


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## arborjockey (Apr 10, 2012)

n8huntsman said:


> I saw these several months ago when I first started searching for a better method, but since this is not for profit, it's out of my price range. This is what lead me to contemplating the hunting tree stand. I saw a video on youtube where a Hawaiian company was using a modified climbing tree stand to do just this and it looked like a good idea. I've also heard others on the forums use it as well. I just need to make sure that I have an addition point of tie in because falling isn't an option. So I don't know if this could be a flip line, or maybe a running bowline?



Whats the name oh that company in hawaii? not sharp cut is it? Loop runners around the trunk work. 30' isnt very tall .You could push a cinching hitch up with a polesaw/pruner whatever. I think the trunk on those maybe a little small for a tree stand. We look down on them hear. :msp_thumbdn:

J.D sharp. A.K.A.... J.D hooker is a con man.


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## mikewhite85 (Apr 11, 2012)

SRT is the way to go for queen palms. We do it all the time. Just throw your throw weight over the top (no big shot needed for any queen palm), tie it to the trunk, and use RADs to ascend. It's really simple and easy. You can also get high up in the palm as opposed to lanyarding below the base of the peticoles. Look up RADS SRT on youtube. There are different variations of it but all you need (aside from your normal gear) is a gri gri, hand ascender, and micro pulley (buying these 3 will be cheaper than renting a lift and will last much longer than 24 hours  ). I don't even footlock or use a foot ascender as it is easy just to walk of the trunk. Once I am at the top I put a lanyard through a couple of the fronds and go to work.

You might also want to use a rope to lower the massive date clusters as they explode everywhere when they hit the ground. Queen palms are fun and a pleasure to trim- as opposed to most other palms, particularly Washingtonias and Canariensis. bleeeh!


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## n8huntsman (Apr 11, 2012)

Nah, the name is Pure Life. Here is the video; Pure Life Palm Trimmers : Spikeless Coconut Climbing on Maui Hawaii - YouTube
I also found another video of a guy using a tree stand; Spikeless palm climbing platform - YouTube


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## n8huntsman (Apr 11, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> Whats the name oh that company in hawaii? not sharp cut is it? Loop runners around the trunk work. 30' isnt very tall .You could push a cinching hitch up with a polesaw/pruner whatever. I think the trunk on those maybe a little small for a tree stand. We look down on them hear. :msp_thumbdn:
> 
> J.D sharp. A.K.A.... J.D hooker is a con man.



Nah, the company name is Pure Life.
[video=youtube;8Zq7O_nAR5s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zq7O_nAR5s[/video]


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## n8huntsman (Apr 11, 2012)

Also found this video of a guy demonstrating the climbing tree stand;
[video=youtube;W1AvcA1F7uM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1AvcA1F7uM[/video]


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## arborjockey (Apr 12, 2012)

n8huntsman said:


> Nah, the company name is Pure Life.
> [video=youtube;8Zq7O_nAR5s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zq7O_nAR5s[/video]



WELL PLAYED

The ascent seemed awkward. Then I watched just the ascent a couple of times and its pretty cool. You use more of your core/abdomen as apposed to your legs. 
In the post I put " we look down on those here" its not as though I wasn't a believer its that the 1 guy who uses them here (J.D.) is a con artist. He 1st brought them around and people thought he was an idiot. He proved it by brining early model stands that take him and his :monkey: 10 min. to ascend 40ft. I talk to a guy today named Bee. He owns Veteran Tree Service here. He said he ordered a ultra light plastic tree stand from a reputable company and it ended up being to flimsy to use. He digs em' though, he has 3 aluminum stands. After the video I have a deeper appreciation for the stand.:msp_biggrin:


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## n8huntsman (Apr 12, 2012)

I also worried about them being to flimsy or awkward. I then talked to a guy that uses them for their intended purpose; hunting. He said they work great. Although hunters do it without a second TIP, I don't think I would. As far as safety goes, would a flip line be a sufficient back-up? I'd rather use an SRT as a back-up because it would be a good way to learn the ropes without relying on them alone, but if a flip line alone is enough, due to cost, I may go that route.


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## n8huntsman (Apr 12, 2012)

mikewhite85 said:


> SRT is the way to go for queen palms. We do it all the time. Just throw your throw weight over the top (no big shot needed for any queen palm), tie it to the trunk, and use RADs to ascend.



RADS looks promising. Would this be prefered over a tree frog setup? I'm still looking for an alternative to throwing over the top of the palm, but I'm having trouble finding any examples of pushing a running bowline up the tree, so going over the top may be my only option?


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 12, 2012)

n8huntsman said:


> RADS looks promising. Would this be prefered over a tree frog setup? I'm still looking for an alternative to throwing over the top of the palm, but I'm having trouble finding any examples of pushing a running bowline up the tree, so going over the top may be my only option?



What Mike was saying is that srt is not gonna hurt the palm, it's common to do it that way.
Jeff


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## Safari17 (Apr 16, 2012)

*Palm Trees always SRT*

I always SRT my larger palms , big shot over top tie of snake bite and frog system all the way up .. Ive done several work shops on palm trees climbs and palm rescue on full skirts w/ Jose Mercado and always found out that SRT is the only way for me ... 

Later in SO-CAL


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## lostcoastland (Apr 18, 2012)

*trimming queen / king palms*



arborjockey said:


> Loop runners around the trunk work. 30' isnt very tall


30' is more than tall for a gardner type guy. you slip on a queen and its like a greasy pole, no taper , hard and smooth. polesaws do just fine but honestly queens and kings are really tough to do for a climber most of the time without spikes, plus frequent trimming needs. What will work for you is what most guys do when they realize they might not have to climb for a hangar or rig a little tree...put three sticks together..stories have been told of four and poles have broken..after that the SRT. my favorite thing to do is just cherry pick everything from the roofs with the power pruner Ilike the idea of srt on them though i though it messes up the fronds. also watch out for the big torpedo seedpods that havent opended they weigh a ton and are sharpened on one end. Ya those seed pods are HEAVVY and make a mess..I put a burlap under each pod at the base of the tree and polesaw them off, other wise it's like trying to pick up ball bearings. prolly figured that one out allready but yea!


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## Safari17 (Apr 18, 2012)

*Palm climber*

Queen palms I usually go climb on my rope walker and Mex fan palms I srt .. I'll try and post some pic and videos I have made over the yrs climbing these monocots :jester:


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## Safari17 (Apr 18, 2012)

*Queen Palms seeds*

This queen palm had several large seed pods , this one was the smallest :msp_w00t:View attachment 234365


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## lostcoastland (Apr 18, 2012)

Safari17 said:


> This queen palm had several large seed pods , this one was the smallest :msp_w00t:View attachment 234365


Damn, thats the biggest ive seen by far.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 18, 2012)

lostcoastland said:


> Damn, thats the biggest ive seen by far.



Yeah, pretty common, no big deal though.
Jeff


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## mikewhite85 (Apr 19, 2012)

Those things are like missiles. They'll kill ya!

I usually lower the seed pods- opened or unopened- with the opposite end of my climbing line. Makes for much less of a mess.


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## lostcoastland (Apr 22, 2012)

*pods*

how tall of a palm did that come out of ..that thing is freakishly huge, Pods that are 2ft long weight like 30-40 lbs, hows that not a big deal..that pod must weigh 100 lbs easy, you'd get yanked out of the tree trying to lower that on your climbline


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 22, 2012)

lostcoastland said:


> how tall of a palm did that come out of ..that thing is freakishly huge, Pods that are 2ft long weight like 30-40 lbs, hows that not a big deal..that pod must weigh 100 lbs easy, you'd get yanked out of the tree trying to lower that on your climbline



Pretty much the norm here.
Jeff


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## lostcoastland (Apr 22, 2012)

would this pod grow like that in one or two years? Ive never seen anything like that trimming trees in LA, OC, IE for a year and a half..Hard to believe two hours south and they grow " pretty much the norm 6 feet" all the ones ive seen are about 3 ft. max...pardon my inexperience in the area but that seems somewhat special to me and the guy who obviously took a picture, " OH yea every queen palm i do the seed pod is Six feet tall, NO, SEVEN feet tall..Around here we use em for canoes...." Is san diego just a whole other world where things grow to gigantic proportions..Things were like that in Humboldt county where i worked a little while back, i swear the house flies were giant...the trees were big...everything grew big


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## n8huntsman (May 25, 2012)

I think I'm gonna give RADS a try. Can anyone recommend a harness in the $250 range?


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## Eltorcho (May 26, 2012)

the tree bicycle. on that note as anyone used one before?


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## lostcoastland (May 26, 2012)

Eltorcho said:


> the tree bicycle. on that note as anyone used one before?


 the guy in the video has..


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## bomar (May 26, 2012)

heres your answer lol Pruning Palm Trees | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## lostcoastland (May 26, 2012)

*queens,pods,polesaws,other palm trees, lizards*

i cut little notches in the torpedo's (unopened seed pods) so the rope doesnt slip, it helps to undercut the fronds a little bit because they peel and will hang from a thread and are hard to cut the little thread when its laying inbetween old fronds especially with a pole saw from the ground. My favorite tool for queens and kings that dont need to be lowered the pole saw. Cuts quick! dont forget that undercut. For cutting and tossing spiky palms like phoenix and canary's i chainsaw the spike off both sides about a foot and a half up so i can grab it safely..i am all about chaps when trimming those too cuz they will spike your thigh if your climbing and ESPECIALy if your removing a canary ( the short ones) on the ground with a 361 the tip of the frond will hit the ground and the spiked end you just cut will swing around or jump back at you and come down & drive the spike in, chaps help. when dragging those out to the chipper you drag em from the tip..feeding the chipper butt first so it doesnt really get you...!!:taped: then try to find some dumpster to throw the mulch in so you dont get your whole load turned around and have to pay garbage fees which can be 80$ a ton in a 20 yrd box can be 400$. happened one time in san bernadino because we had ONE century plant, it was a freaking huge century plant..the juice from those things makes you itch like crazy by the way if you ever get one of those. We ground the stump out and found a straight blue lizard , it was an amazing blue lizard never saw one like that..


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## mikewhite85 (May 27, 2012)

bomar said:


> heres your answer lol Pruning Palm Trees | Flickr - Photo Sharing!



That is the toughest dude in a dress I have ever seen! Wielding a hatchet barefoot at the top of a palm!


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## n8huntsman (May 28, 2012)

Can you guys look over my shopping list and suggest changes? This will be for the RADS.
Thanks


harnessnew tribenikosilarge$339.00SAD533ropesterlingHTP red200' X 3/8"$188.00HT3820Ethrowline kitzing it1.75MM$40.00THR101KLANYARD2-IN-1W/ PRUSIK10'$92.00FLI114KDESCENDERPETZLGRIGRI2$99.95ASC215ascenderCMIEXPEDITIONLEFT HAND$58.00ASC148caribeinerROCK EXOTICAROCKO$17.95CAR136caribeiner/pulleyDMMREVOLVERWIRE GATE$27.00CAR309NYLON FOOT STRAP$31.00ASC112strapdaisy chain48"$22.00CLI901HELMETPETZLALVEO VENT$105.00SAF174$1,019.90
*[tr][td]ITEM[/td][td]MFG[/td][td]MODEL[/td][td]SIZE/OPTION[/td][td]PRICE[/td][td]WESSPUR P/N[/td][/tr]*


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## mikewhite85 (May 29, 2012)

n8huntsman said:


> Can you guys look over my shopping list and suggest changes? This will be for the RADS.
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ...




Looks like a cool set up. You can get a saddle for $200 less though that will still do the job. I have a $350 glide light, $250 ergovation economy, and a $125 weaver. They really aren't all that different.

Also you don't need the footstrap or the daisy chain strap. I use a CMI foot ascender (about 50 bucks), which I think is a lot easier. On palms however, I typically don't use either. I just pull the rope with RADS and walk up the trunk of the palm. A 200' rope is also unnecessary. A 120' will work fine for Queen palms. I prefer Blaze 11mm. 

Anyways, just figuring out ways to save you some money. Have fun!


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## arborjockey (May 29, 2012)

GRIGRI2-whats it for?
3\8's rope is ok if you have really small hands. Id get a shorter run of 1\2" but that's preference. 
Get more carabiners at least 5
scratch the daisy chain
10' lanyard is a little long for palms. (You can always make your own)
Ive had a vented helmet for years but im not getting one the next round. When you really think about it holes in a hard hat aren't smart. Rock climbing its probably not bad. With tree work if a branch with a dead stick hits you in the head the stick gos through the hole into you. Barttlett tree service actually banned them.

I believe theirs a big difference in saddles and I suggest wearing 1 before purchase. I have 4 saddles myself and only run 1. How people even climb in the old style saddles I'll never know. f your doiang mostly palms get a wide back with xtra padding. 

Good luck. Don't be disappointed if things aren't just so. I changed climbing stuff 100 times and im still not content.


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## Safari17 (May 29, 2012)

*queen palms*

Shoot your line and srt frog style all the way to the top , we do all our palms this way at work 

Later in SO -CAL will try and post some pic later


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## arborjockey (May 29, 2012)

Safari17 said:


> Shoot your line and srt frog style all the way to the top , we do all our palms this way at work
> 
> Later in SO -CAL will try and post some pic later



We love pics and really enjoy video


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## n8huntsman (May 29, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> GRIGRI2-whats it for?
> 3\8's rope is ok if you have really small hands. Id get a shorter run of 1\2" but that's preference.
> Get more carabiners at least 5
> 10' lanyard is a little long for palms. (You can always make your own)
> ...



The grigri2 is for the RADS set up. I don't have small hands but the max rope Ø on the grigri2 is 11mm!? I'm rationalizing spending this much money by saying that I'm going to save money by doing palms, but in reality, I'd like to climb other things too so I may need the longer lanyard. Plus, since it has the prusik, it's easy to shorten to the desired length, correct?
Good info on the helmet and saddle, just the feedback I was hoping for.
Thanks and keep it coming!


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## jefflovstrom (May 29, 2012)

Why don't you listen to Safari, that is how it is done. Your list is interesting.
Jeff


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## n8huntsman (May 30, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Why don't you listen to Safari, that is how it is done. Your list is interesting.
> Jeff



That's pretty much what Im planning except rather than tree frog, I'm looking at work RADS. This was suggested by mikewhite85, post #16. Not too much different but RADS looks like it uses a little less gear.


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## arborjockey (May 30, 2012)

I have a giri and used to use it but its fallen in the bag of toys. I climb everyday and rarely use anything these techies do. We use a 30' extension ladder if multiple trees are going to be done. The 1st 30' here means your 1\2 way up most trees. Every 3 trees the groundy saves my 90' of humping. Other then that I foot lock up or just climb to the top like a man. Setting up rads after throw balling anb blah blah blah. By then I've been in the tree pruning for 10 min. Ascending is so over rated. Get in the tree and go to work. If you want to climb for fun take your gear to the park for awhile. Don't show up and plan to learn and work at the same time. If you plan on doing lots of palms you have to get the Swedish bands. More work less effort. When starting out the main thing is stay simple. Don't buy a lot of mechanical junk. 
Good luck. Find some local palm guys to go watch. See how they do it


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## arborjockey (May 30, 2012)

WOW I DIDN'T SEEE JEFF WAS HERE.

Hey big Jeff you guys don't ride the Swedish bicycle down in so cal?


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## jefflovstrom (May 30, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> WOW I DIDN'T SEEE JEFF WAS HERE.
> 
> Hey big Jeff you guys don't ride the Swedish bicycle down in so cal?



LOL, nah.
Jeff


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## beastmaster (Jun 1, 2012)

Hey n8huntsman, you seem pretty committed on climbing those queen palms. I am in Riverside, I did a weed abatement job in Murrieta today. PM me and I'll safely get you up one of those Queens, I'll show you the RAD's . Nothing like seeing and doing it in person. 
I drink Mountain dew, have a couple on Ice(cause its hot out your way)and I will set you up. Seems like the neighborly thing to do. 
Wade.


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## danbirch (Aug 27, 2012)

n8huntsman said:


> That's pretty much what Im planning except rather than tree frog, I'm looking at work RADS. This was suggested by mikewhite85, post #16. Not too much different but RADS looks like it uses a little less gear.



I'm wondering how things worked out for @n8huntsman . I had the same question, and there was some very good info on this thread. thanks!


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