# The skidder



## tramp bushler (Jan 29, 2010)

.Well here,s the skidder to be ...





.


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 29, 2010)

Looks like it could be a diamond in the rough. At least 2 tires (the ones I can see) in decent shape yet. You don't want to know what Ag rubber costs these days... Self leveling system on the loader forks is nice. Looks to be some pretty stout axles underneath. I'd be looking to reroute the hose sticking out on the dump cylinder, looks ready for a tree to grab.

What sorta powertrain does that critter have?

At 10 tons you ain't gonna trailer it behind a pickemup truck are ya?

Best of luck with it. Old iron can be gratifying to use if it ain't constantly breaking.


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## Metals406 (Jan 29, 2010)

Cool! I love old stuff. . .

I found ya something here for $600.00. . . Guess I'll have to get it now. 

It's a Chevy truck that was converted to a skidder I guess? I need to go look at it -- I bet it's a Frankenstein from hell.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 29, 2010)

What did you find for 600 bucks ??.. 
.
No doubt Skagit #1 will need a good amount of TLC ...But it,s not too wide , and tho it,s heavier than the pickup wants to control going down a big hill , it would be easy to move with a 10 wheeler dump truck and a pintel hitch trailer ......Cheaper than a low boy and an over wide load ..And yes I need to make sure the hoses are routed so they don,t get tore off ...This machine hasn,t been in the brush like most skidders do .in it,s recient history ......


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## Metals406 (Jan 29, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> What did you find for 600 bucks ??..
> .
> No doubt Skagit #1 will need a good amount of TLC ...But it,s not too wide , and tho it,s heavier than the pickup wants to control going down a big hill , it would be easy to move with a 10 wheeler dump truck and a pintel hitch trailer ......Cheaper than a low boy and an over wide load ..



Word tell, it's a Chevy truck that had a loader put on it and a P.T.O (or hydro) winch on the back. I guess it was used for skidding logs for quite a while?? 6 cylinder engine, chains on tires, etc.

I should go look at it tomorrow and drag the camera with me.


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## Metals406 (Jan 29, 2010)

Well, less Chevy "truck", but more of the frame, etc used.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 29, 2010)

This is a pic of the double drum winch and fairleads



..I just wish I didn,t have to wait till this summer to get it up here .....


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## tramp bushler (Jan 29, 2010)

*Tires ??*

Does it hurt them to be mounted opposite the direction the arrow points ?????


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## Blazin (Jan 29, 2010)

Nice ole piece of iron!! It looks to be in pretty decent shape. Mounting the tires backwards won't hurt anything, it's done for traction advantages. You can always just swap them rears around if you wanna see the difference.


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## floyd (Jan 29, 2010)

So the back tires are mounted backwards for more power in reverse?

Educate me, please.


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## slowp (Jan 29, 2010)

I like the boat.


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## bullbuck (Jan 29, 2010)

put a snowmobile track on backwards and it will climb like hell,but dont expect to slow down on the way back down the hill,thats my simily


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## HorseShoeInFork (Jan 29, 2010)

floyd said:


> So the back tires are mounted backwards for more power in reverse?
> 
> Educate me, please.





> Depending on the individual manufacturers, most DIRECTIONAL tractor tires are 30% to 40% more effective than a non-directional tire going forward and about the same amount LESS effective than a non-directional in reverse. The thinking is that the driver can back out of a bad situation and the directional tire would benefit from the engine weight.



Not sure if that explains it, but I tried.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 29, 2010)

floyd said:


> So the back tires are mounted backwards for more power in reverse?
> 
> Educate me, please.


.

. That6s my ? ... Why do some people put tractor tires on backwards ???


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## tramp bushler (Jan 29, 2010)

HorseShoeInFork said:


> Not sure if that explains it, but I tried.


.

.OK . sure . Does it hurt the tires ?? Anyone have any rough idea how much these tires cost new ?????
.
.Slowp , your funny ..Ha Ha 
.
. See to me this is the coolest machine because I can regular skidder log with it . I can rig a tree and rig a high lead or Polock .or shotgun ,or receeding line cable show , I can load logs , Tho it takes a couple hours to swap the forks to the bucket, I can load gravel ect with it .......And you guys just wait till you see the splitter I make for it ...I,m thinkin I can make a mechanical lock for the bucket/forks tilt and rig a gate valve from their hoses to 2 other hoses for a splitter ram and some other thing ,not sure what ......By the time I get it up here I will still have alot less into it than just goin out and buying a skidder used and I will have it running and operating where it is in warm weather ...Notice the lack of snow .....Wierd as they get LOTS of snow .


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## bitzer (Jan 29, 2010)

10 ply tires similar to those in size for a backhoe run around $500-$600. Those may be more than 10 ply tires though. I don't really know. Do they fluid or foam fill those for extra weight? I would guess foaming them would be ideal. That can be another $500+ per tire. 

That thing looks like it will be a good machine once you get a hold of her Tramp!


Talkin to my tire guy, he claims the treads will wear faster when on backward, but your rear traction will definetly be better.


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## cuznguido (Jan 29, 2010)

When you try going backwards up a hill you will be glad those tires are on backwards. It is much cheaper to fill the tires with calcium or water (50-50 mix of water and anti freeze will keep them from freezing and cheaper than calcium) but foam, although expensive, will prevent flats. Biggest disadvantage of foam is when it comes time to replace the tires, you will need to set em on fire and burn them off.


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## floyd (Jan 29, 2010)

Neighbor retreaded a Mountain logger for $3K bout 10 yr ago. Firestones.

I don't think it will wear tires faster but foward traction could be compromised.


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## Blazin (Jan 29, 2010)

It's actually an old military trick of puttin the front tires on backwards, for more traction in reverse....but they do have to be a directional tire to begin with. As far as wear, I don't think it'd be a huge problem unless you plan on doin alot of highway miles with a skidder. LOL!


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 29, 2010)

Tramp, I'm not sure what size you've got there, but for an example, about 5 years ago I put a set of Goodyear 15.5x38 bias ply tires on my Massey tractor. They were just over $500 for the pair. When oil shot up a couple years back, the price of tires skyrocketed as well, and didn't come back. Today, I'd be lucky to get one for $500. Add 30% or more for radials, but the radials will get you better traction, and therefore lower fuel use per acre when farming, so it's usually worth it.

On a machine that heavy already, I wouldn't fill the tires, unless you want to foam them for flat proofing. Cal chloride is corrosive and hard on rims, there is better stuff out there, but even more expensive. Also, fluid stiffens the tire, and doesn't let it flex to bite as well.

RE the rears on backwards, yes they'll pull better backing uphill, or backing out of a wet spot, at the expense of less forward traction, and the fact that they will fill with mud quickly if you're working on wet ground. I'd leave em as is until you get a handle on what it does and doesn't do well, and if you're unhappy with forward pull, switch em out.

I'd not worry at all about road wear. Years back I worked for a vegetable cannery, and we put literally thousands of miles on the road a year. Tire wear was there, but negligible. 

Whats that thing got for a motor and trans?


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## Curlycherry1 (Jan 29, 2010)

Farmers will argue forever about weather tires should face in so as to pull dirt in under power or push the dirt out and dig down to solid ground under power. I don't think there is any numerical proof that one way is actually better than the other. It is just one of those things people like to debate over a beer. Bearpaw tire chains make the point mute.


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## dancan (Jan 29, 2010)

Tires ,put chains on and use them to the end !
Here's a picture of a skidder for sale in a local ad , look closely at the tires .


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## Blazin (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh yeah...bear paws go nice over bald tires and are waaay effective! 

That's pretty kick ass.. a grapple on the blade, Never seen one like that in these parts.


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## dancan (Jan 29, 2010)

It's the first one I've seen .


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## johnzski (Jan 29, 2010)

If I'm not mistaken a set of forestry specials-Firestone?- for a skidder will run between 8 and 10K. A set of bear paw chains are way cheaper


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## Curlycherry1 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've seen skidders with chains covering tires with virtually no tread at all. I wondered what kept the chains from just spinning on the rubber there was so little of it there to hold the chains. 

Plenty of operators I worked with had chains on all the time and basically never took them off. Sure they get some damage once in a while, but nothing that a good welder could not fix right at the landing.

I say skip the new rubber and just spend the money on a set of chains and be done with it. Besides, skidder tire chains just look so darn bad-a--!


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## redprospector (Jan 29, 2010)

Tramp,
I don't know what size tires your machine has, but last year I priced 18.4 x 26 tires for my little 440 b. They were about $1200 each. You can get ag tires cheaper, but you'll pay for the difference in down time and tire repair.

Andy


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## Jaredm (Jan 30, 2010)

what does that machine have for power? a little screamin' jimmy?


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## discounthunter (Jan 30, 2010)

as long as the treads match on both sides ,ie both front facing or rear facing you'll be ok. but only have one on one side facing opposite,and you'll get real good at steeering,lol


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## tramp bushler (Jan 30, 2010)

Jaredm said:


> what does that machine have for power? a little screamin' jimmy?


.

.

At the moment the Jimmy ain,t screamin ,, it isn,t even whispering .Needs a skidder doctor with a new engine , or alot of new parts .. that is being investigated soon ... I'ts a 453 ... For no bigger than it is , similar size to a 230 Timberjack ,which have 353s in them...It should pull well ...The reason I was asking about tires is , I don,t know if they are skidder or tractor tires .. One had a hole in the side wall that has been repaired ....
. In Maine growing up we called the ring chains like what Dan Can posted a pic of (Canadian Chains ) I really like the diamond ( chain male ) chains .. They really protect the tires ...I have a pretty good idea I,m going to swap around that backwards tire as I don,t think the rear right tire is mounted backwards ....


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## tramp bushler (Jan 30, 2010)

dancan said:


> Tires ,put chains on and use them to the end !
> Here's a picture of a skidder for sale in a local ad , look closely at the tires .


.

.Ya this number of man Clark is a nice looking machine .. I,de never own one . How do tires get that wore down and still hold air ???


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## dancan (Jan 30, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> How do tires get that wore down and still hold air ???



There is a lot of ply on forestry tires and will still last a long time .
The asking price for that machine is 10 ,000$$ , I'm pretty sure it has a few hours of life left in it . 
Here is a pic of a forestry tire from Northerntire .


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## tramp bushler (Jan 30, 2010)

10,000 bucks .. Wow ... .. It was kept real nice and straight ... Not all bashed in ........Is it in N.B. ?? That tire looks gross , but I see what you mean about how many ply they are ....


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## wvlogger (Jan 30, 2010)

should be a good machine


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## dancan (Jan 30, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> 10,000 bucks .. Wow ... .. It was kept real nice and straight ... Not all bashed in ........Is it in N.B. ?? That tire looks gross , but I see what you mean about how many ply they are ....



A lot of older skidders have been popping up lately on kijiji in N.S. and N.B.(have not looked further away) at reasonable prices .It's a shame that shipping would be a lot of pennies .


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## 371groundie (Jan 30, 2010)

sahweet! if you find a copy of that baby call me! if you have two hyd circuits you can have a splitter on one and a small boom on the other for puttin the really big rounds on. or a conveyor run on a hydraulic rotor?

that clark doenst have tires, just rims and chains. if the chains slip around the tire you can run a short chain to a bolt through the rim that will keep the chain from spinning, as well as keeping the chain tight. what is the purpose of that grapple on the blade? if you try to drag a tree with it the tree will get caught under the tire.

so you are going to use the dual winches as a small skyline set up? my dad remembers IP using dual drum skidders in northern maine. one for spruce and one for hardwood.


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## Redneck Ont (Jan 30, 2010)

dancan said:


> tires ,put chains on and use them to the end !
> Here's a picture of a skidder for sale in a local ad , look closely at the tires .



bad ass!!!!


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

371groundie said:


> sahweet! if you find a copy of that baby call me! if you have two hyd circuits you can have a splitter on one and a small boom on the other for puttin the really big rounds on. or a conveyor run on a hydraulic rotor?
> 
> that clark doenst have tires, just rims and chains. if the chains slip around the tire you can run a short chain to a bolt through the rim that will keep the chain from spinning, as well as keeping the chain tight. what is the purpose of that grapple on the blade? if you try to drag a tree with it the tree will get caught under the tire.
> 
> so you are going to use the dual winches as a small skyline set up? my dad remembers IP using dual drum skidders in northern maine. one for spruce and one for hardwood.


.

. Apparantly , the grapple on the blade on the Clark is also for stacking logs ...

.I have thot about a hydraulic run conveyor for the split wood ...........
.If I run 3/8th " haywire I can get a fair amount on there ... As the timber I,m logging is pretty light and I am doing limited volume I can use a mini butt riggin for High lead . or run 1/2 or 9/16th line for a skyline and shot gun or receeding line for downhill loggin .........


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## joesawer (Jan 31, 2010)

I have never messed with a Skagit skidder. 
Those gearmatic winches are a different story. I have messed with those way more than any one should ever have to work on any thing.
They are really smooth and slick when they are working right. Which is when they are nearly new or you have just completely rebuilt them. The rest of the time you might as well get used to taking the side cover off and "tuning" on them on a regular basis. Sometimes a daily basis.
One thing to check for is to make sure they are not leaking around the axle. If they are nothing short of a complete tear down will ever get them working at all.


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## Gologit (Jan 31, 2010)

joesawer said:


> I have messed with those way more than any one should ever have to work on any thing.



LOL...Yup.


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## floyd (Jan 31, 2010)

Better look a little closer to the pic...there is a chain around the rim to keep chains from slipping.


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## Curlycherry1 (Jan 31, 2010)

floyd said:


> Better look a little closer to the pic...there is a chain around the rim to keep chains from slipping.



That there is innovative. I like it! I goes to show just how worn those tires are! But with those chains on there they are good until the rubber dissentegrates from oxidation.


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## HorseShoeInFork (Jan 31, 2010)

Those are good tires actually. Don't know if you have ever seen it but we've got an old International utility. Tires on it were 30+ years old and stuck a stob through one - ruined. Had a new tire put on and it would spin everytime before the old worn out slick one on the other side. It finally gave up the ghost last year. Stuck a stob through it and it came from together. I was took one for the team and bathed in calcium trying to get it back to level ground where it could be worked on.


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## slowp (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> . Apparantly , the grapple on the blade on the Clark is also for stacking logs ...
> 
> ...


 
I never went on the field trip, but there was some kind of a yarder set up for bringing in small wood. From what I understand, they had a two drum setup with baling twine tied on for chokers. The guy at the top whacked off the twine to "unhook" the chunks. Maybe I'll do some research and see if I can find any reference to it.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

joesawer said:


> I have never messed with a Skagit skidder.
> Those gearmatic winches are a different story. I have messed with those way more than any one should ever have to work on any thing.
> They are really smooth and slick when they are working right. Which is when they are nearly new or you have just completely rebuilt them. The rest of the time you might as well get used to taking the side cover off and "tuning" on them on a regular basis. Sometimes a daily basis.
> One thing to check for is to make sure they are not leaking around the axle. If they are nothing short of a complete tear down will ever get them working at all.


. From what I understand , there were only 2 of them made so it doesn,t suprise me you never ran one .


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

slowp said:


> I never went on the field trip, but there was some kind of a yarder set up for bringing in small wood. From what I understand, they had a two drum setup with baling twine tied on for chokers. The guy at the top whacked off the twine to "unhook" the chunks. Maybe I'll do some research and see if I can find any reference to it.


.

.
. Now thats not nice !.. Got any idea how much loggin I,ve done inside the guyline circle with the hay wire on a Madill or Berger,or Washington 208 yarder when I was chasing .......bushel volume logs is there was a good show for it .... Green , wet , Western Hemlock .logs ....... 
. Hay wire on a skidder drum will move more wood than you may think if the guy useing it has the grey matter between his ears active ......


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## slowp (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> ..
> . Now thats not nice !.. Got any idea how much loggin I,ve done inside the guyline circle with the hay wire on a Madill or Berger,or Washington 208 yarder when I was chasing .......bushel volume logs is there was a good show for it .... Green , wet , Western Hemlock .logs .......
> . Hay wire on a skidder drum will move more wood than you may think if the guy useing it has the grey matter between his ears active ......



Huh? Let me explain. There was nothing bad about it. It was a small set up yarder, with small line, with Hay (the alfalfa type) BALING twine used in place of chokers. That orange plasticky twine stuff. The guy at the top--chaser/yarder engineer, used a sharp instrument to cut (whack) the baling twine to unhook the chunks of wood that were sent up. Now, I don't know who or what tied the twine to the line or how. Just heard from somebody who'd been there to see it in operation. They said it worked well. 

Since it was going on the East side of the Cascades, there would be an ample supply of baling twine nearby. Not haywire, but the actual twine used to bale actual hay. The alfalfa growers switched to twine in the late 1970s.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

, Ya can,t log with baler twine .. Maybe trippled with poles 20-30 ft long and 8" on the butt end .......


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## Metals406 (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> , Ya can,t log with baler twine .. Maybe trippled with poles 20-30 ft long and 8" on the butt end .......



Hey Tramp, look what I ran across today!

Cool fricken unit, and not bad on price!

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/1560536994.html


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

*No Kidding !*

WOW !! Too bad it,s there not uphere ...


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## Metals406 (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> WOW !! Too bad it,s there not uphere ...



Yeah, that's the crux. . .

It sounds like you already committed to that other unit anyway -- but you could maybe find a flatbed headed from Spokane (or southern BC) to Alaska empty? Offer to buy fuel, that's a win for the trucker, and a win for you.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, that's the crux. . .
> 
> It sounds like you already committed to that other unit anyway -- but you could maybe find a flatbed headed from Spokane (or southern BC) to Alaska empty? Offer to buy fuel, that's a win for the trucker, and a win for you.


.

.

.Ya , I gotta keep pluggin along and keep building up slowly ...I would want to go down and ride back up .....but that peice of iron looks like a good deal ....I found a 353 ,but I don,t know how it would bolt up to the hyd pump ..I would prolly need to move the front motor mounts back a bit ..... It wouldn,t be able to pull quite as hard as it could with a 453 , but it would still pull enough for me ...


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## Metals406 (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> .Ya , I gotta keep pluggin along and keep building up slowly ...I would want to go down and ride back up .....but that peice of iron looks like a good deal ....I found a 353 ,but I don,t know how it would bolt up to the hyd pump ..I would prolly need to move the front motor mounts back a bit ..... It wouldn,t be able to pull quite as hard as it could with a 453 , but it would still pull enough for me ...



Yeah, you're firewooding all spruce right? Dead standing?


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

Ya . Nice and light ... Not really any market around here for lots of logs , nor is there much supply . But we have lots of beattle killed spruce .. It makes very good environmentally friendly firewood because it burns quite clean being so dry ...


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## Metals406 (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Ya . Nice and light ... Not really any market around here for lots of logs , nor is there much supply . But we have lots of beattle killed spruce .. It makes very good environmentally friendly firewood because it burns quite clean being so dry ...



A lot of spoiled brats (hear that hardwood burners!)  hate burning spruce. . . And it's not even my first choice, but I burned a few cord of it last year. It keeps the cold away, and it was dead in my woods -- so why not?

Spruce would be a dream to skid, like you said, light. The only thing I hate is limbing the darn things. . . Branches thicker than the hair on a dogs back!


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## tramp bushler (Jan 31, 2010)

This White Spruce has lots of limbs , but they break off very easy ....If they are yarded very far ,few hundred feet most of the limbs are broke off ...The thing I hate about limbing is getting my chain in the snow all the time


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## Metals406 (Jan 31, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> This White Spruce has lots of limbs , but they break off very easy ....If they are yarded very far ,few hundred feet most of the limbs are broke off ...The thing I hate about limbing is getting my chain in the snow all the time



Snow keeps the bar cooler right? 

Can you firewood up there all year, or only in the winter. . . The permafrost thing come into play?


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## hammerlogging (Feb 1, 2010)

Cool fricken unit, and not bad on price!




[/QUOTE]

that woudl be a heck of an Appalachian yarder, looks only 3 drums uphill only, but cheap, ideal for 800' spans, light tiurns but steady makes the deck grow day in day out......


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## Metals406 (Feb 1, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Cool fricken unit, and not bad on price!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, you wouldn't be putting no Maki carriage on that skyline. 

It would be perfect for a shotgun or single-lining though.

It would also be an ideal firewooding unit. I can think of several pumpkins that are out of reach, that I could reel in with that baby.


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## hammerlogging (Feb 1, 2010)

around here it'd be "look at all those frickin dozer roads you don't have to have"


Snaggin 'em, holler by holler.


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## Jaredm (Feb 1, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> .Ya , I gotta keep pluggin along and keep building up slowly ...I would want to go down and ride back up .....but that peice of iron looks like a good deal ....I found a 353 ,but I don,t know how it would bolt up to the hyd pump ..I would prolly need to move the front motor mounts back a bit ..... It wouldn,t be able to pull quite as hard as it could with a 453 , but it would still pull enough for me ...



If you dont mind looking a little farther away, there are lots or 4-53's in fish boats all you should have to change is the the exhaust manifold and a couple other little things.


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## Metals406 (Feb 1, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> around here it'd be "look at all those frickin dozer roads you don't have to have"
> 
> 
> Snaggin 'em, holler by holler.



:agree2:


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## tramp bushler (Feb 2, 2010)

Jaredm said:


> If you dont mind looking a little farther away, there are lots or 4-53's in fish boats all you should have to change is the the exhaust manifold and a couple other little things.


.

. Thats a good idea Jaredm ... the 453 was a pretty common Troller motor


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## Jaredm (Feb 2, 2010)

whats wrong with the 4-53 you have? not worth rebuilding?


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## slowp (Feb 3, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> around here it'd be "look at all those frickin dozer roads you don't have to have"
> Snaggin 'em, holler by holler.





I like yarders bestest. Except when the logger can't lay out a straight corridor, which is not a problem in a clearcut.


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## bitzer (Feb 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> This White Spruce has lots of limbs , but they break off very easy ....If they are yarded very far ,few hundred feet most of the limbs are broke off ...The thing I hate about limbing is getting my chain in the snow all the time



Winter cuttin! Twice the work sometimes. Have to kick the snow far enough away from the stump so you are not workin in it all the time. Kickin snow away from where you are buckin so you can see what you're doing. Kickin snow away from limbs if its worth not putting the tip in the snow. Digging around under the log in the snow for the choker. Cold, wet hands when the gloves are too much to find the end of the choker under the other side of the log. Fun. Fun. Lately I've figured out that by using a hookeroon to push under a log to the other side and hooking the choker on to it and pulling it towards me saves a lot of diggin around in the snow. We also had a thaw/rain/re-freeze so now I've got to bust the snow away from the stump with my ax or my saw handle likes to catch on the ground when I'm trying to cut low.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 3, 2010)

Jaredm said:


> whats wrong with the 4-53 you have? not worth rebuilding?


.

.Possibly not . May have a cracked block .


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 3, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Winter cuttin! Twice the work sometimes. Have to kick the snow far enough away from the stump so you are not workin in it all the time. Kickin snow away from where you are buckin so you can see what you're doing. Kickin snow away from limbs if its worth not putting the tip in the snow. Digging around under the log in the snow for the choker. Cold, wet hands when the gloves are too much to find the end of the choker under the other side of the log. Fun. Fun. Lately I've figured out that by using a hookeroon to push under a log to the other side and hooking the choker on to it and pulling it towards me saves a lot of diggin around in the snow. We also had a thaw/rain/re-freeze so now I've got to bust the snow away from the stump with my ax or my saw handle likes to catch on the ground when I'm trying to cut low.



I prefer deep hard snow. The logs come out clean. Blocking is easy and does not stick the bar in the dirt. As for getting a chain around a log a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe that is heated and bent into a U is light and works for poking under a log to snag a chain and bring in back under the log.

As for the cold it can get to be a pain but I always wear plastic bibed rain pants and a jacket along with my chaps, and I am often sweating in very short order and have to lose the jacket. I can always add layers, but I cannot get naked in the woods in the summer to cool off.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 3, 2010)

Once you get your snares ( chockers ) trained , they poke under a log fairly well ..... New chockers pretty much suck , not trained very well , just go straight where ever they are pointed ....We don,t use chains out here.


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## Curlycherry1 (Feb 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Once you get your snares ( chockers ) trained.



Us East Coasters used chains for choking logs. The chain then hooks into a keyhold slider on the winch cable. I saw one outfit using cable chokers once and the guys hated them. I was told when a cable wears out a wire will poke out and stab a person in the hand, chains never do that. Having been poked by cables with bad wires doing other tasks I know it can cause some major damage and I would not want the threat of that poking hanging around me all day.

I once tried to use some knobby chains that had lumps on them to dig into the bark on a log which they did like a pit bull. Problem was those things would eat gloves and hand skin in very short order. Those chains lasted about 2 days before I took them back and got normal chains. My hands even with gloves on looked like hamburger after using those nasty chains.


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## Blazin (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah chain chokers here too, never tried the cable deals but it's bad enough dealin with the winch line at times. I've prolly dug a million holes under a downed tree with a stick to get the chain under  Got one of them fancy pull rods now


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## bitzer (Feb 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Once you get your snares ( chockers ) trained , they poke under a log fairly well ..... New chockers pretty much suck , not trained very well , just go straight where ever they are pointed ....We don,t use chains out here.



Thats mostly the problem. That and when I'm trying to bunch 5 or 6 logs together. I use cables and chains. Chains on the bigger stuff (25+"), cables for the bundles of smaller diameter stuff (10-20+").


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## 056 kid (Feb 3, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Us East Coasters used chains for choking logs. The chain then hooks into a keyhold slider on the winch cable. I saw one outfit using cable chokers once and the guys hated them. I was told when a cable wears out a wire will poke out and stab a person in the hand, chains never do that. Having been poked by cables with bad wires doing other tasks I know it can cause some major damage and I would not want the threat of that poking hanging around me all day.
> 
> I once tried to use some knobby chains that had lumps on them to dig into the bark on a log which they did like a pit bull. Problem was those things would eat gloves and hand skin in very short order. Those chains lasted about 2 days before I took them back and got normal chains. My hands even with gloves on looked like hamburger after using those nasty chains.



You speak for yourself, This east coaster uses 8' chokers on the skidder, & 15' on the 6-71 madill. i have had cables bite me in one side & out the other, but Im still here.. you cant shove a limp chain under a big log...

Chain chokers are for democrats. . .


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## 056 kid (Feb 3, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Once you get your snares ( chockers ) trained , they poke under a log fairly well ..... New chockers pretty much suck , not trained very well , just go straight where ever they are pointed ....We don,t use chains out here.



Trained properly they are a-ok. Spend time choking small stuff & you got a jerry curled choker that aint good for anything but fighting with. . .


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## tramp bushler (Feb 4, 2010)

*Their called Jaggers*

, The wires that break off and stick in you here there and every where .. Thats why riggin men wear cotton gloves . If you have tough leather gloves on and get a jagger in them with a line that is goin somewhere ,better hope it,s a nice place cause you are prolly goin there too....... Thru a block , or too the landing ..ect. especially if your the chaser and you are spooling the haul back by hand pickin up the back line ................Probably not the safest thing a guy can do ....


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## Metals406 (Feb 4, 2010)

That's why you spend time on the landing straightening bent chokers. . . There's no such thing as "down-time". If trees aren't coming to the landing, there's always something else to do.


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## Humptulips (Feb 4, 2010)

Jaggers and cats asses. The choker dogs curse

Can't even imagine using a chain. In the old days when they used flat hook chokers they had a tool like you chain guys are talking about. They called it a duke. I have one I found in a cedar swamp logged in the twenties. Of course they had powder for choker holes too.


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## Metals406 (Feb 4, 2010)

We tried to avoid jaggers with thick PVC gloves and fallers gloves under that. . . Worked pretty well.


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## Humptulips (Feb 4, 2010)

056 kid said:


> You speak for yourself, This east coaster uses 8' chokers on the skidder, & 15' on the 6-71 madill. i have had cables bite me in one side & out the other, but Im still here.. you cant shove a limp chain under a big log...
> 
> Chain chokers are for democrats. . .



Such short chokers now a days with these mini yarders. We used to use nothing shorter then about 30 feet and up to 50. It took a manly man to pull back 3 wrapped up 1 1/8 chokers on a no lift high lead show.
Of course my Dad would say Wimps!!!!! We flew 1 3/8 by 40s at Clemons, Greenwood and Schafer Bros.


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## joesawer (Feb 4, 2010)

Cotton gloves are the ticket for cable. you can feel and avoid the jaggers before they get you most of the time.
With leather gloves they pop through suddenly and then straight through your skin.
White Ox are the best. Baily's work safe are pretty good. But the last ones I got with Madsen's label where absolute junk.


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## 056 kid (Feb 4, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Such short chokers now a days with these mini yarders. We used to use nothing shorter then about 30 feet and up to 50. It took a manly man to pull back 3 wrapped up 1 1/8 chokers on a no lift high lead show.
> Of course my Dad would say Wimps!!!!! We flew 1 3/8 by 40s at Clemons, Greenwood and Schafer Bros.



Yes sir! makes me excited, il fall the timber & render thoes slinkey 50' bastards.. That was the good old days though, when mans where mans. Now mans act like a bunch of womans. This website can absolutely prove it.. i usually wear the white tube sock like fallers glove, & in my experiences a damn cotton glove dosent do much to avoid jaggers. i have felt and ####ing herd the metal scrape against my finger bones. That chit realy makes me cuss,(why the #### am I up here un-belling chokers when i should be falling timber??) then boss man chimes in with a< "ypu wanna get payed for today son???"


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## tramp bushler (Feb 4, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Such short chokers now a days with these mini yarders. We used to use nothing shorter then about 30 feet and up to 50. It took a manly man to pull back 3 wrapped up 1 1/8 chokers on a no lift high lead show.
> Of course my Dad would say Wimps!!!!! We flew 1 3/8 by 40s at Clemons, Greenwood and Schafer Bros.


..

. Now there,s a Port Alice memory for me , Subterainian lead .as opposed to High "as in Lift" lead .. I worked for one of the best hook tenders , if not the best one I ever worked for there ,but we logged several units that terminated on red cedar ,blow down muskegs and didn,t have any lift ...4, 33'long 1 inch chockers and a 208 with a transmission problem so it was gutless .... I set the same 1 inch chocker for 5 weeks .. at around 3 1/2 weeks 1 strand broke so the chaser at the time unlaid that strand and did a good job of cutting it off close to the nubbins ....It actually was a nicer chocker with 5 strands ...... That 1 chocker lasted me longer than some brand new power saws have .........Alot of those old timers had 2 chocker setters per chocker with those 1 3/8 x 40 ' snares ..


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## joesawer (Feb 4, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Yes sir! makes me excited, il fall the timber & render thoes slinkey 50' bastards.. That was the good old days though, when mans where mans. Now mans act like a bunch of womans. This website can absolutely prove it.. i usually wear the white tube sock like fallers glove, & in my experiences a damn cotton glove dosent do much to avoid jaggers. i have felt and ####ing herd the metal scrape against my finger bones. That chit realy makes me cuss,(why the #### am I up here un-belling chokers when i should be falling timber??) then boss man chimes in with a< "ypu wanna get payed for today son???"





Get the right cotton gloves and hear that popping sound.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 4, 2010)

pretty hard to beat banded white ox . as long as they are big enough ..


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## RandyMac (Feb 4, 2010)

Ugh, riggin'. Yeah, White Ox were good, I used them when sawing as well.
I remember tying a figure eight knot in 1 1/4 arch line and tryin' to leave a hand and a half pig tail, so I didn't look like a city boy and have to torch it short. Put the clevis hook on the track of the Cat, and feed the end through the knot as the winch tightened it, I had no trouble picturing having my hand being pulled in to my neck.
Until I went into other areas, I had never seen any chokers smaller than 7/8". inch was standard, 1-1/4 by 80' was fairly common, every Cat had something like that tied to the roof.


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## 371groundie (Feb 4, 2010)

tractor loggin we use chains. a smart faller finds a 3 or 4 inch diameter peice of tree about 3ft long and lays it infront of the stump so the tree falls on it and you have a gap to get the chain through.
ive set cable chokers behind a skidder and you just have to use your head. if you have a tree you cant get a choker under, set up so that another tree drags over it and that should roll it around. then get that tree on the next hitch. 

this is east coast ground skidding. i see the yarders somtimes have trees choked 8-10ft back down the log. when the log needs to drag behind a machine you generaly want to be less than 4. with my tractor its best the be about a foot. 

ive seen skidder around here with only 40ft of mainline that was only 9/16ths. less than what youre calling a choker. but we arent yarding 8ft diameter trees either.


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## Humptulips (Feb 4, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> ..
> 
> . Now there,s a Port Alice memory for me , Subterainian lead .as opposed to High "as in Lift" lead .. I worked for one of the best hook tenders , if not the best one I ever worked for there ,but we logged several units that terminated on red cedar ,blow down muskegs and didn,t have any lift ...4, 33'long 1 inch chockers and a 208 with a transmission problem so it was gutless .... I set the same 1 inch chocker for 5 weeks .. at around 3 1/2 weeks 1 strand broke so the chaser at the time unlaid that strand and did a good job of cutting it off close to the nubbins ....It actually was a nicer chocker with 5 strands ...... That 1 chocker lasted me longer than some brand new power saws have .........Alot of those old timers had 2 chocker setters per chocker with those 1 3/8 x 40 ' snares ..



Ain't it the way with those kinky chokers. They seem tougher then a bull choker. You can do every thing you can think of to break one and they will just hang in there.

My dad swears he broke an 1 1/2 choker on a log at Camp 14 for Rayonier. Cat side too. He said he had 3 D8s for power and a block purchase to bring it up over a bench. That's where he broke it. When he got it on the flat it took the 3 cats to move it, 2 pulling and one pushing. 11'x40' doug fir. Loaded it on the railroad.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 5, 2010)

. Thats a stick :jawdrop:.

...I got to enjoy some of my snow machine skidder today . All the reprod is bent over with a foot of snow and hoar frost on it ..Had a stob punch up thru the tub and get into the drive clutch , which gave a good accounting for itself as a chipper .......:censored:
.
.Every time I have to use my hands and feet to scrape off the snow from a blow down I think of the skidder .. Every time I throw a 200 lb 4 ft stick on the sled and then on the truck , I think of the skidder ..... Blew the front seal out of the transmission on my 90 ford 1 ton 4x4 delivery truck yesterday breaking in the road to my new sale ... I was thinkin about the skidder with it,s rear dozer blade . and front bucket .. Time to look at the pic again ...




About 6 ft is as long as I want my snares , and I will make some with 4 ft or less length ... I,ll have an 8 or 10 footer for the rare bonus or tronus or a figure 8 if it,s needed . But mostly 3/8 th or 5/16 6 foot chockers .........Nice and easy .!!!!


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## joesawer (Feb 5, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> . Thats a stick :jawdrop:.
> 
> ...I got to enjoy some of my snow machine skidder today . All the reprod is bent over with a foot of snow and hoar frost on it ..Had a stob punch up thru the tub and get into the drive clutch , which gave a good accounting for itself as a chipper .......:censored:
> .
> ...





When the skidder wont pull a greased string out of a goats rectum. And when you have the side covers off the gearmatics and are trying to get the op rod and dog bone to trip just right and knock the side cover off the tire and spill all your bolts in the snow. You will be thinkin about you snowmobile!
Did I say I hate gearmatic winches?


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## RavensRoost (Feb 5, 2010)

*Lead on 4-53?*

Tramp, below FYI.

From Feb 2:

http://juneau.craigslist.org/boa/1583433682.html

For sale: Detroit 4-53 marine engine set up with heat exchanger & Borg Warner gear. Running takeout with unknown hours. Runs good. Also have large steel Marco powerskiff without engine. Willing to sell together or separately. Powerskiff would make good log towing boat or spare seine skiff. Make reasonable offer on both or either.


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## ak4195 (Feb 5, 2010)

Try Tacoma Diesel before you go climbin in somebodies cramped gooey troller engineroom bilge.
If they're still around,they were the Jimmy Gods(imo)

ak


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## tramp bushler (Feb 5, 2010)

This one in Sitka is a take out from a seine skiff so it,s prolly already on dry ground , well as dry as Sitka is .......I have friends in Sitka who can look over the engine and feel out the owner ....What counts against it is it was in a seine skiff ....Commercial fishermen especially crabbers and seiners being about the lowest life forms on the planet ............ Down south engines equal BIG bucks ....
. You still in Prudhoe ??


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## tramp bushler (Feb 5, 2010)

RavensRoost said:


> Tramp, below FYI.
> 
> From Feb 2:
> 
> ...


Thanks Roost !!! I emailed the guy . I have friends there that can look the engine over ...... I have found out there were gobs of different 453s . so there is a chance it wouldn,t work , but maybe alot of the parts would .. Perhaps the heat exchanger part would mess up lots of things , but perhaps it will unbolt and the radiator stuff will bolt right on .. ????????????????????


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## ak4195 (Feb 5, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Down south engines equal BIG bucks ....
> . You still in Prudhoe ??



Maybe I didnt follow close enough,but aint yer skidder downsouth.Its just a quick scoot down I-5 to the "Aroma of Tacoma",Tacoma Diesel used to do fleet service stuff,huge warehouse full of Jimmy green engines,pulled out of cannery fleet bristol bay boats.4-53's should be pretty reasonable,phone call is cheap these days.
In the middle of my time off,nother week to go. 7/12's 4x2 hitch.Pretty slack schedule,after 23 yrs of fishing this is a walk in the park.Since we're mantainance,always gauranteed 12's unlike the other trades,no weather days.

goodluck
ak


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## tramp bushler (Feb 6, 2010)

The skidder is in SouthEast .. as in Hoonah .You know , the greatest part of Alaska ..about 45 miles west of Juneau ............A friend will prolly look at a 453 that is in Sitka for me this week end ......


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## 371groundie (Feb 9, 2010)

every time you say 'rear blade' i think 'i havent seen a picture of that yet.'

dont make me beg.


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## ak4195 (Feb 10, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> ....Commercial fishermen especially crabbers and seiners being about the lowest life forms on the planet ....
> ??


 HuH whaa. somebody blindside me while i was nappin?Everybody knows 96.5% of the people who log or claim to have logged cant do anything else,cause they cant fit in course one could say the same thing about fisherman,BUT sofar Im the exception.

Never crabbed much or seined,did a season of setnet,but did do a whole lot of Hook n line same way it was done in Ireland not long after the jesus dude was doin his thing.

ak


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## tramp bushler (Feb 10, 2010)

ak4195 said:


> HuH whaa. somebody blindside me while i was nappin?Everybody knows 96.5% of the people who log or claim to have logged cant do anything else,cause they cant fit in course one could say the same thing about fisherman,BUT sofar Im the exception.
> 
> Never crabbed much or seined,did a season of setnet,but did do a whole lot of Hook n line same way it was done in Ireland not long after the jesus dude was doin his thing.
> 
> ak



. See there ya go , your not a seiner or Bering Sea crabber . So your a great guy !!!!!!!!

Still no word back from the Sitka engine .. But it wasn't inb a boat , I think it is in a warm shop ...


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## tramp bushler (Feb 10, 2010)

371groundie said:


> every time you say 'rear blade' i think 'i havent seen a picture of that yet.'
> 
> dont make me beg.



.

. The guy who is taking the pics had his ankle fused 3 weeks ago He still can,t go for a stroll . If he can,t take the pic from the pu seat it don,t get took right now .. sorry


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