# Euc csanker-- Chrysoporthe austroafricana?



## treeseer (Aug 10, 2011)

Euc canker spreading like wildfire in Queensland. 

If you have knowledge or experience with this please respond.


----------



## Urban Forester (Aug 11, 2011)

I have no experience with_ C. austroafricana_ obviously, but I am curious. _C. cubensis _ is native to Australia but _C. austroafricana_ I thought was only South Africa. Do you (or "they") know how it got in? Importation of infected stock? From what I've read it could be very nasty...


----------



## treeseer (Aug 12, 2011)

Urban Forester said:


> I have no experience with_ C. austroafricana_ obviously, but I am curious. _C. cubensis _ is native to Australia but _C. austroafricana_ I thought was only South Africa. Do you (or "they") know how it got in? Importation of infected stock? From what I've read it could be very nasty...


No ID has been made; still trying to isolate fruiting structures.


----------



## treeseer (Aug 13, 2011)

treeseer said:


> No ID has been made; still trying to isolate fruiting structures.




See Sudden Euc Death - Arbtalk.co.uk | Discussion Forum for Arborists for the ignominious skewering I sustained at the hands of a brilliant but haughty (seems to be a genetic trait) dutchman at whose feet we laid our efforts to date.

We finally connected with a govt mycologist who is kind of in your position, who said "It should be possible to identify any microfungi isolated from the cankered tissue. If we identified some known pathogens, then this would give a good indication of what is causing the cankers.

However collecting specimens and doing the initial isolations is beyond my resources. If joebob can do this, then we might get an answer. I am sorry but I don't have time next Monday for the field visit.
So yes, drop the samples here and we'll give it a go."

Any idea what "initial isolations" means? Separating tissues out and culturing in a dish? What how where? Ack.

We've reached out to the world authority on Chrysoporthe (now apparently redivided into other genera via DNA analysis it seems) named Gryzenhout, who works in wingfield's lab, and await help from her or anywhere. SOS!


----------



## Urban Forester (Aug 17, 2011)

You're being polite. I read the thread and while he seemed to be informed, he was also a TOTAL a--hole. You would think that a problem as serious as this would motivate most people to put aside preconcieved notions and/or bias and contribute worthwhile info. He did to some extent, but then just went off. Sometimes I think some people on "the continent" tend to still look down there noses at us poor "colonists". Back to the topic... has anyone though of looking at the similarites in this disease to _Cryphonectria parasitica_ American Chestnut Blight. The orange structures in the 1 photo look alot like it. I realize it obviously not the same, but could what we know about the blight help us "defend" against this newer one? By the way when did you say you were part of the Australian "team" investigating this problem??? Did I miss that?


----------



## treeseer (Aug 17, 2011)

Urban Forester said:


> ...has anyone though of looking at the similarites in this disease to _Cryphonectria parasitica_ American Chestnut Blight. The orange structures in the 1 photo look alot like it.


yes that was my first thought. btw chryphonectria is aka chrysoporthe, so the chestnut-blight implications did get my mind going. there was an overreaction to the white stuff on the surface which i am not sure is related to the orange. the white may be a bark disease, but the sapwood beneath some of the white structures is degrading so.....

re the forum chat, the "soil food web" is such a hot topic/fad right now that even some experienced arbs can't see the trees, or even the forests, for the fungus. No denying the importance of microflora, but I cannot see where it dominates every aspect of arboriculture. btw that dutch fellow did come round once he saw I was open to mycology and is now quite friendly--jovial even. Though there is still natural antagonism, there is also hope for symbiosis. there always is.:smile2:


----------



## Urban Forester (Aug 19, 2011)

treeseer said:


> ...there was an overreaction to the white stuff on the surface which i am not sure is related to the orange. the white may be a bark disease, but the sapwood beneath some of the white structures is degrading so.....


 
This is pure guesswork, but I'm thinking you're right. The white "growth" may be an oppurtunistic fungi (akin to White Rot) that "takes advantage" of the situation by colonizing in damaged wood. I HAVE to believe the orange structures are the problem. Hard to believe a country like Australia doesn't have ANYONE with experience in dealing with the identification of wood destroying organisms. That's scary.


----------



## Urban Forester (Aug 19, 2011)

treeseer said:


> re the forum chat, the "soil food web" is such a hot topic/fad right now that even some experienced arbs can't see the trees, or even the forests, for the fungus. No denying the importance of microflora, but I cannot see where it dominates every aspect of arboriculture.



I've found that website REALLY loves their fungi :msp_smile:, sometimes at the expense of really important issues.


----------



## Ed Roland (Aug 20, 2011)

Just finished the thread. Seemed to go bad on Post #27 for some reason :msp_unsure:

So, you have a scary aggressive non native killer killing the natives. No known curative treatment, then how about therapeutic treatment? Have phosphites been looked at?


----------



## treeseer (Aug 20, 2011)

Just finished the thread. Seemed to go bad on Post #27 for some reason :msp_unsure:

o its all good again; we continued chatting at the Tree Health Care forum under coronet cutting and elsewhere. you can find my posts there if you really want to. the main advantage to that kind of chat is that thoughts get focused into a form worth printing elsewhere.  otherwise it's ahuge time sink

So, you have a scary aggressive non native killer killing the natives. No known curative treatment, then how about therapeutic treatment? Have phosphites been looked at? 

not sure about anything anymore. saw 30 eucs with orange blotches on bark at a site nearby, near the falls on my fb wall, all healthy. The slicker brighter orange stuff is called peach cortciioid something; nonpathogenic. yes phosphite will be trialed


----------



## Ed Roland (Aug 20, 2011)

Urban Forester said:


> I've found that website REALLY loves their fungi :msp_smile:, sometimes at the expense of really important issues.


 
I agree, Gary. Their perspective seems to focus more on "fun guy" health over tree health. I can appreciate the coronet concept but it pertains little to my world. Maybe some of that is a reflection of the litigious nature of our country. I'll stick with Shigo on this one.

I do benefit from the learned minds there. Just with a jaundice eye.


----------



## treeseer (Aug 21, 2011)

Ed Roland said:


> I agree, Gary. Their perspective seems to focus more on "fun guy" health over tree health. I can appreciate the coronet concept but it pertains little to my world. Maybe some of that is a reflection of the litigious nature of our country. I'll stick with Shigo on this one. I do benefit from the learned minds there. Just with a jaundice eye.



+1 on all of the above, except that encouraging rot is not a US-litigation issue for me; there are lawyers everywhere. It's all about tree first, other values second.:msp_thumbsup:

I'm terying to insert some jaundice/objectivity in eyes over there, but fungophilia has a deep hold. :alien2:


----------



## David (saltas) (Aug 21, 2011)

myrtle rust is the only new kid on the block that I was aware of.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Sep 2, 2011)

treeseer said:


> Euc canker spreading like wildfire in Queensland.
> 
> If you have knowledge or experience with this please respond.


 
I don't know much about Eucalyptus at all, although I used to think that they were a tough and drought tolerant species. They used to grow very well in England, and provide great fast growing cover. However since the drought has really taken hold here in Texas, over the last 6 months, I have watched hundreds proceed to die in the I45 to Bush Intercontinental Airport corridor. Pretty much every one is half dead or worse.

I wonder, if the cultivation of the species for timber in their native regions has led to a monoculture that is open to the pathogen affecting them?


----------



## David (saltas) (Sep 2, 2011)

Eucalyptus have been introduced to new environments all round the world.
They have come into contact with pathogens that they would never have been exposed to.
Pathogens being what they are attack everything.

Some pathogens are now really effective at destroying eucalyptus so we now have new diseases that will cause havoc if they get back to Australia as the species have not evolved together and there are not resistant types yet.

Provenance of the seed is important for drought tolerance and many other traits.

Corymbia tessalaris grown in townsville even though it is the dry tropical environment it still gets 1200mm of rain 85% of it in the four months dec ~ march, these trees all so grow in longreach get 400mm annual rainfall.

If you collect sees from townsville and plant them in longreach they are not going to survive as all of its previous generations are used to high rainfall in a short time and are used to wet feet but they have deep roots for copping with the 8 months of dry.
The seeds from longreach are from stock that has existed on lower rainfall but they do get the rain more evenly through the year. these will have shallower root systems.

Hopes this helps


----------



## treeseer (Sep 2, 2011)

saltas said:


> Eucalyptus have been introduced to new environments all round the world.
> They have come into contact with pathogens that they would never have been exposed to.
> Pathogens being what they are attack everything.
> 
> ...



excellent points about lack of diversity and breeding pathogens in monocultures.

i gotta leave qld sunday; hate to go this place is nice.


----------



## derwoodii (Sep 2, 2011)

This is news to me, had no idea of an outbreak but I live far far away from north QLD. Perhaps the unprecedented decade years of drought & so stressed trees mixed with last years very wet seasons been a trigger allowing this pathogen an easy feed. If it kills host fast and stays put it may just run its life cycle and go away unlike Phytophthora cinnamomi that slowly killin my forest down here.


----------



## MCW (Sep 12, 2011)

treeseer said:


> excellent points about lack of diversity and breeding pathogens in monocultures.
> 
> i gotta leave qld sunday; hate to go this place is nice.



Yeah rainfall is a biggy. A lot of people think that Australia is a completely dry desert so therefore assume all eucalyptus species are drought tolerant. There are over 900 identified eucalyptus species and out of these less than half are found in areas that would be classed as "dry".
The biggest issue we have in my area in Eucalypts is attack by Longicorn Beetles plus some very suspect but unconfirmed cases of Mundulla Yellows which early on was believed to be "possibly" caused by Phytophthora cinnamomi however they have since found crown dieback with no pathology showing this fungi. Unless they've isolated something recently last I heard they were investigating possible viruses which actually makes more sense. There are many sick looking eucs through the Adelaide Hill's region that I noticed last weekend were showing signs of a yellowing canopy and crown dieback.



Urban Forester said:


> Hard to believe a country like Australia doesn't have ANYONE with experience in dealing with the identification of wood destroying organisms. That's scary.



We have hundreds of people who deal with this everyday, including myself (I deal with horticultural tree and vine crops), but you'll rarely find anybody on forums like this or other tree care forums who really want to get into it. Main reason is that domestic tree care (ie: arborists) tend to have different ideas to commercial tree care people like myself. The chemicals we tend to use are generally too toxic or illegal for backyard use and the machinery needed to apply said chemicals won't fit in a person's backyard  Domestic non yielding trees also don't like the same fertiliser inputs that I tend to recommend on a daily basis. It would outright kill them  Also homeowners don't want to pay $500 for a litre of chemical when they only need 5ml!
What works in my situation may not work in a backyard etc etc and vice versa.
If it is a type of fungal pathogen then either Phosphonic Acid or Metalxyl would be my first choice in a commercial tree care situation with Phos Acid being fully systemic. Not sure if this gets used domestically or not but assume it would (derwoodi - both Phos Acid and Metalaxyl eg: Ridomil Gold 25WG have both shown good results on citrus and stonefruit trees with Phytopthera but may not be as effective on Eucs? Both can be ground appied and taken up by roots).
If it's canker (Bacterial) then good luck. If I find any commercial stonefruit or citrus orchards with bacterial canker then just keep the trees as healthy as you can, apply copper prior to wet weather, and when the patch finally becomes economically unviable bulldoze it, wait 3 years, then start again.
If it's viral then bye byes.


----------



## David (saltas) (Sep 12, 2011)

Mundulla Yellows

Last lot a literature I read that Mundulla Yellows is not a single thing is four or five different things that people call Mundulla Yellows.

I will try and find some peer reviewed stuff I was reading.

In our dryer areas less than 600mm annual rainfall Eucalyptus is no longer the dominant species Acacias are.

theories, carbonates in soil, soil conditions blocking Fe and Mn uptake, biotic, abiotic, a disease, phytoplasma , viral, no body knows, but lots a theories

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/pubs/mundulla-yellows.pdf

http://www.environment.gov.au/archi...dulla-eucalyptus/pubs/mundulla-eucalyptus.pdf

http://www.sciences.adelaide.edu.au/plant_protection/pv/mundyellow.pdf

Mundulla Yellows - A Simple Case of Poisoning

Landline - 25/09/2005: Mundulla Yellows . Australian Broadcasting Corp


----------



## MCW (Sep 12, 2011)

saltas said:


> Mundulla Yellows
> 
> Last lot a literature I read that Mundulla Yellows is not a single thing is four or five different things that people call Mundulla Yellows.
> 
> ...



Yeah she's a tricky one for sure! Then you go to Mundulla and can't see what all the fuss is about as they have lovely, healthy trees there


----------



## Urban Forester (Sep 13, 2011)

MCW said:


> ...We have hundreds of people who deal with this everyday, including myself (I deal with horticultural tree and vine crops)...



I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the specific fungus could not be cultured because there was no one experienced with identifying new fungi. Something about the "last guy" moving to NZ (?) Once again I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you folks didn't know what you were doing. 

Since _p. cinnamomi_ is soil borne have you tried soil injecting selected trees with the predator fungi _Trichoderma harzianum_. I have had pretty good success using it against _p. cinnamomi_ in the urban setting. Suppresing soil activity before it becomes bleeding canker seems like a pretty good idea.


----------



## treeseer (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the specific fungus could not be cultured because there was no one experienced with identifying new fungi. Something about the "last guy" moving to NZ (?) Once again I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you folks didn't know what you were doing. 

UF we did connect with two, one private one govt. I expect there are more in MCW's territory.

Since _p. cinnamomi_ is soil borne have you tried soil injecting selected trees with the predator fungi _Trichoderma harzianum_. I have had pretty good success using it against _p. cinnamomi_ in the urban setting. Suppresing soil activity before it becomes bleeding canker seems like a pretty good idea. 

Sounds like a very good idea! Is that product called Shield something? one researcher says you need to culture/select specific strains to make it all happen right . but given that he is the main provider of this service, a pinch of salt seems in order. 

thanks for sharing, you all. No yellowing in foliage to this foreign eye, viewing in late winter. Old cankers revitalized by recent floods is all we have come yup with for sure, but there still seems to be more to it. Plots are set up for observation.


----------



## MCW (Sep 14, 2011)

Urban Forester said:


> I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the specific fungus could not be cultured because there was no one experienced with identifying new fungi. Something about the "last guy" moving to NZ (?) Once again I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you folks didn't know what you were doing.
> 
> Since _p. cinnamomi_ is soil borne have you tried soil injecting selected trees with the predator fungi _Trichoderma harzianum_. I have had pretty good success using it against _p. cinnamomi_ in the urban setting. Suppresing soil activity before it becomes bleeding canker seems like a pretty good idea.



Hey thats no worries mate. I sometimes get the impression myself that we have nobody who knows what they're doing here either  I have had MASSIVE issues getting any response from some of our well known plant pathology gurus. Luckily we have a local retired ex Senior Plant Pathologist in our area who is extremely helpful and knowledgable in the world of horticultural tree and vine crops. The unfortunate part is that because he is now retired the local agricultural research lab didn't replace him and sold off all of the testing and pathology equipment - even if he has an informed "hunch" on a pathogen we have no way of proving it without sending samples elsewhere for very expensive, independant testing.
I mainly deal with trees on commercial orchards so have a whole swag of goodies to throw at it. Most of my clients are multi million dollar setups too so as a rule are willing to spend that extra money which somebody with one or two trees simply would struggle to justify or afford. Also in the world of commercial horticulture a farmer/grower is just as likely to put a bulldozer through infected or diseased trees in a heartbeat if they become economically unviable, unlike somebody with a beautiful backyard tree with sentimental value.
The Trichoderma product I've dealt with before is called "Trichoshield" (label attached). If you talk to the distributor it will cure everything from the common cold to AIDS. About the only success I've heard with it is from Table Grape growers on open weeping rots like Sour Rot, Alternaria Rot, Bitter Rot, Botrytis etc etc. This has been hit and miss though but the thought process is that the fungi colonises the rotten berries and consumes the sugars rapidly, limiting the ability for the bad rots to spread into other healthy berries. The weeping rot becomes therefore dry and doesn't spread - by the way this use was not the intended purpose of the product and because it is not a registered chemical it is not bound by any off label useage laws 
However, quite often what the grower/farmer "thinks" is the Trichoshield working is actually Vinegar Fly larvae eating the berries out and leaving only the dry skins. If you tell the distributor this he doesn't want to listen which is typical as it doesn't suit his marketing agenda. I've run grower trials side by side with Trichoshield and untreated controls and the rot levels and severity were the same.

Last season we had record rainfalls here and I saw things in the world of plant pathogens that I am unlikely to see again - I hope! Things like Bacterial Canker in stonefruit and Bacterial Spot in certain susceptible almond pollinators went absolutely nuts. I saw certain rot species in winegrapes that are only ever found in heavily irrigated and high nitrogen loaded table grapes.

View attachment 199053


----------



## derwoodii (Sep 14, 2011)

MCW said:


> Last season we had record rainfalls here and I saw things in the world of plant pathogens that I am unlikely to see again - I hope! Things like Bacterial Canker in stonefruit and Bacterial Spot in certain susceptible almond pollinators went absolutely nuts. I saw certain rot species in winegrapes that are only ever found in heavily irrigated and high nitrogen loaded table grapes.
> 
> View attachment 199053




Sadly you got that right. After years of drought stress trees get a drenching to only suffer further issues that their reduce vigour fails to protect.
This imported on cutting by a foolish grower has wiped out many commercial Chestnut farms and nearby innocent oak trees.
Chestnut blight strikes Victoria | Australian Food News

Chestnut blight, an exotic plant disease affecting chestnut and oak trees, has struck the Ovens Valley in North-Eastern Victoria, where 80% of Australia’s chestnuts are grown.

The disease was first detected in September 2010, and the Chestnut blight National Management Group (NMG) met on 25 November 2010 to discuss the outbreak and agree to a national plan to eradicate the disease.

The disease is caused by a bark-inhabiting fungus (Cryphonectria parasitica), which mostly affects the trunk and branches of its host, eventually causing it to die.

Since September, over 145,000 chestnut trees and a selection of oaks have been surveyed in Victoria. There are currently nine infected properties, all in the Ovens Valley. A Quarantine Zone has been proclaimed for north-east Victoria and movement restrictions for chestnut and oak plant material and equipment used to farm chestnuts are in place.

The Victorian Department of Primary Industries (VIC DPI) is in the process of removing and burning infected and at-risk chestnut trees.


----------



## MCW (Sep 14, 2011)

derwoodii said:


> Sadly you got that right. After years of drought stress trees get a drenching to only suffer further issues that their reduce vigour fails to protect.
> This imported on cutting by a foolish grower has wiped out many commercial Chestnut farms and nearby innocent oak trees.
> Chestnut blight strikes Victoria | Australian Food News
> 
> ...



Yeah nasty mate. I've been reading about it as a subscriber to Australian Nutgrower.


----------



## Urban Forester (Sep 14, 2011)

The product I use is located here: BioWorks Inc. | RootShield WP (sorry I have no clue how to imbed pdf's!) I did'nt see on your label the colony forming unit's in the package. i use it mixed with these 2 products. 

PHC Compete Plus | Plant Health Care

Agriculture: Fertilizers and Organic Solutions 

This combination has been very effective in reversing the effects _P. Cinnamoni _up to moderate infections.


----------



## MCW (Sep 15, 2011)

Urban Forester said:


> The product I use is located here: BioWorks Inc. | RootShield WP (sorry I have no clue how to imbed pdf's!) I did'nt see on your label the colony forming unit's in the package. i use it mixed with these 2 products.
> 
> PHC Compete Plus | Plant Health Care
> 
> ...


 

Good stuff and good info. In our area we get very little success from a lot of soil based microbes simply because we have nothing but gutless sands that quite often reach over 60°C in Summer. Our standard organic matter content is around 0.5-0.8% which is shocking. About the best I've heard is 2.8% but that particular soil was also wrecked through over application of animal based manure. The P and K was through the roof - good organic matter but unproductive. As you know most soil microbes need good organic carbon etc to survive properly for any length of time. Have you ever tried products such as Metalaxyl or Phosphonic Acid to control P. Cinnamoni? We have had good success here against various Phytopthera root rot fungi but once again the earlier the better.


----------

