# Firewood too long...



## porgyiii (Dec 11, 2011)

I am relatively new to this wood burning thing, but I feel pretty confident I got ripped off. Ordered a cord of seasoned, mixed hardwood from a local dealer the other day. Now I could probably contest his definition of "seasoned" and "cord," but I'll reserve my judgment until I have it stacked.

HOWEVER, I can tell you for certain that as much as 30% of this entire load of split wood is over 21" long. My stove can barely squeeze in a 20.5" log. Needless to say, I'm pissed :mad2: Am I out of place assuming that the standard split firewood is sold in 16" - 20" lengths? This just seems like an underhanded practice that reeks of laziness (longer pieces = less cuts = less time).

Am I wrong? Do I have a case for telling him to come pick this largely useless pile of wood and give me my $ back?


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## lfnh (Dec 11, 2011)

When you ordered it, did you specifically spell out that "no pieces longer than 20" " ?


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## HeX0rz (Dec 11, 2011)

I've found out that being on the delivering end of firewood to ask every question known to man before I sell a cord to someone. The majority of the time people have no idea what I'm asking them. But it helps to get a good overall idea of what is involved so they can be prepared to deal with the product.

For me, I will always cut firewood at 16" long pieces as it will make a 3 rick cord. Which keeps things simple for me. I have yet to deal with any elderly people who do firewood and want something cut shorter. In that case, it would end up being 8"ers to keep it simple.

There is 2 things you can do. Either you deal with it, and try and load your firebox with the pieces in a diagonal fashion or you get to cutting them in half yourself. You don't even need a chainsaw. You can use any saw in any form you got that will cut wood. Although, that's labor for you that should have already been paid for when you got the wood.

I would still call them up and voice your displeasure in dealing with them. 30% of the wood being too long seems to me like they are not measuring accurately. I would be shocked if this is a dealer and not some fly by nighter type of person.


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## REJ2 (Dec 11, 2011)

recut the 30% would be the easiest solution


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## computeruser (Dec 11, 2011)

Geez, want any cheese to to with your whine?

Cut the offending pieces down and burn them. It isn't every day that you hear folks complaining that they got MORE than they expected. Guess it's proof you can't make everybody happy.

Next time, if you are really adamant that wood can't be longer than X length, make sure that point is made adequately clear and make sure the wood is stacked/measured/approved before it is paid for.


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## porgyiii (Dec 11, 2011)

lfnh said:


> When you ordered it, did you specifically spell out that "no pieces longer than 20" " ?



No, and that's not a mistake I will soon repeat.




REJ2 said:


> recut the 30% would be the easiest solution



Absolutely, but the only reason I pay for this stuff is for the convenience of NOT having to cut it myself... 




HeX0rz said:


> I've found out that being on the delivering end of firewood to ask every question known to man before I sell a cord to someone. The majority of the time people have no idea what I'm asking them. But it helps to get a good overall idea of what is involved so they can be prepared to deal with the product.
> 
> For me, I will always cut firewood at 16" long pieces as it will make a 3 rick cord. Which keeps things simple for me. I have yet to deal with any elderly people who do firewood and want something cut shorter. In that case, it would end up being 8"ers to keep it simple.
> 
> ...



He's actually a big-operation landscaper, and he's been around for long enough that I would suspect he knows exactly what he's doing. And he's a friend of the family, so in the end I'll probably just end up swallowing my words and just not give him business anymore...


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## porgyiii (Dec 11, 2011)

computeruser said:


> Geez, want any cheese to to with your whine?
> 
> Cut the offending pieces down and burn them. It isn't every day that you hear folks complaining that they got MORE than they expected. Guess it's proof you can't make everybody happy.
> 
> Next time, if you are really adamant that wood can't be longer than X length, make sure that point is made adequately clear and make sure the wood is stacked/measured/approved before it is paid for.




Uh, no I definitely did NOT get more than I expected. The wood is long, not excessive in volume.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 11, 2011)

If yall didn't discuss the length beforehand, it's your fault, not his.People have differant needs when it comes to firewood.My Ashley heater will take a 30" stick, but my splitter is 24".Don't blame the firewood guy for something that's your fault.


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## porgyiii (Dec 11, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> If yall didn't discuss the length beforehand, it's your fault, not his.People have differant needs when it comes to firewood.My Ashley heater will take a 30" stick, but my splitter is 24".Don't blame the firewood guy for something that's your fault.



Fair enough. I guess this is what I was wondering. Now I get to aim the blame right back at myself...


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 11, 2011)

porgyiii said:


> Fair enough. I guess this is what I was wondering. Now I get to aim the blame right back at myself...



Like the old saying goes 'live and learn'.Now I bet the next time you order some wood, you'll find out beforehand the length.Then if you don't get what you ordered, you'll have a valid gripe and we'll all get down on the hack that ripped you off.


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## cantoo (Dec 11, 2011)

And another problem with using cord as a measurement of wood, you still need that all important 3rd measurement. You need the length stated. Maybe his customers all ask for 24" wood?


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 11, 2011)

> Am I out of place assuming that the standard split firewood is sold in 16" - 20" lengths?



Yes, but not for the reason you're questioning.

Standard firewood should be 16" -- plus/minus a half inch of variation I'd accept (some short, some long).

Any other lengths should be specified -- 18", 20", 12", etc. 

From the specs I've read stoves that take over 18" are the distinct minority of models. Most are either 16" (which I think is a bit more common) or 18".



> He's actually a big-operation landscaper, and he's been around for long enough that I would suspect he knows exactly what he's doing.



Depends.

If he's trying to sell firewood for full market value to repeat customers, he doesn't have a fracking clue what he's doing.

If he's just selling cheap wood for beer money to folks who just want cheap wood, he's doing just what he and the customers want.


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## unclemoustache (Dec 11, 2011)

I wouldn't go blaming yourself so hard, nor do I think others here should be slamming you so hard either. C'mon guys, he's a newbie. Where's our usual friendly welcome??:msp_unsure::msp_unsure:

I've not bought a whole lot of firewood, but I think I'm right in saying that lengths are usually around the 16" level, and a sign of professionalism in a seller is to come close to the accepted norm. Sure, he could have asked, but so could (should?) have the seller. As for the volume and moisture content, I'd be interested to see what it's at. This guy certainly wouldn't be the first or last to shortchange someone on volume, moisture, or length, and a good seller will ask what his customer wants, for that makes customers come back.

Porgyiii, I'd give the guy another chance. Next time you need wood, tell him what happened, and that you need wood under a certain length, and would prefer it to be a full cord and properly seasoned, and that you almost decided not to buy from him again, but that you got advice from Uncle Moustache himself, who advised you to give him another chance, and that if he didn't come through properly, that you'd rip his head off and send it to Washington DC. (Apparently in DC, a severed head works better than those that are still attached.)
Really, you'd be doing him a favor by helping him improve his firewood business, if he'd just clean up his act a bit.

As for your future in firewood, yes, it certainly doesn't hurt to tell them you need a certain length, and most sellers will also help stack, so you can measure it when it's delivered. Also tell them if they show up with any sycamore, willow, or other junk wood when they said "mixed hardwood" that they need not bother unloading.

That'll be 2 cents, please. :biggrin:


Oh, and WELCOME TO AS!!!


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 11, 2011)

> If yall didn't discuss the length beforehand, it's your fault, not his



Seller should have asked, and when in doubt deliver a consistent, common size -- 16".

Always better for both sides to make sure they know which length is desired.


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## Joeypole (Dec 11, 2011)

If the seller is a friend of the family then I would do one of two things.

1. Bash the living daylights out of him for ripping you off to the friend of a friend.

and if that doesn't work

2. Do what every Keyboard Rambo would do, bash the living daylights out of him on CL.



I learned my lesson two years ago. Bought a cord of "seasoned mixed hardwood" from a local dealer on CL. And when you get some split wood with charring on it you realize it don't burn. I took about 1/2 of that "cord" to the local recycling plant this year. Now I chase my own.


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## blackdogon57 (Dec 11, 2011)

20" + is not a standard length for firewood . You have a right to be pissed off and who ever sold you the wood should be ashamed 
of themselves for ripping you off. In these parts anything over 16" is special order. I have sold hundreds of cords of wood and can
count on one hand customers who have asked for wood longer than 16".


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## Ductape (Dec 11, 2011)

Well, that wood would be perfect for my stove. :biggrin:

But.... as has been stated, 16" is the most common length for firewood sales. As you now know, in the future, be more specific with the size you want. It stinks, but easiest thing may be to cut a bit off the ends of the long pieces. FWIW, those shorts are great to burn in fall or spring when you don't need a long burn to warm up the house.


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## porgyiii (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks guys. Without a doubt, I will ask in the future. However, this was not exactly the first cord I've bought and all the others were cut to 16" lengths +/- 1"...


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## greendohn (Dec 11, 2011)

i've always cut fire wood 16"-18" long for my wood stoves,,even the ol' side loadin' Ashley i used to have in the man cave. and i have sold some wood,, not a lot,,not for beer money,, jest every now and again,, and i have always ask about length and size of splits !!! i have always stacked the wood i have sold, on site, at least upon 1st delivery,, so there would be no question as to what my truck holds.."Unclehaironhislip"(sorry Uncle,,i couldn't help myself:hmm3grin2orange He who is wise,,said it best..


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## mikereynolds (Dec 11, 2011)

As a firewood seller, I have this happen from time to time. We usually cut our wood at 16" but. some customers need 14" or less and some with fireplaces like them 20" or more. some specify lengths some do not but claim to have after delivery. Bottom line for us is MAKE THE CUSTOMER HAPPY PEROID! If we have to send a man to cut down the wood we will. If we have to come pick up the load and refund money or exchange it for something else? we will. Even if it was not our fault. Ethics is the name of the game and a good reputation is worth more than a little extra work, a loss of money or a simple appology. If you are in this business for the long haul protect your reputation at all cost. It pays off with loyal repeat customers and refferals. Try to invision the conversation at the family table with neighbors and potential customers. The conversation can be like let me tell you about my firewood guy...how would you like the rest of the story to be? if my customer is happy he will tell someone but if he is not, I want to hear all about it so I can fix it. 'nuf said..


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 11, 2011)

People who think delivering wood cut to varying lengths is ok and standard practice are way out of line. Anyone selling wood should know that when wood is ordered it is expected to be cut to a standard length plus or minus a bit. A customer should expect it to be cut around 16" unless he specifies a different length.

If I were to get a batch dumped with cuts varying all over from 16" to over 20" I'd be telling him to pick it back up.

The clue on his operation is being in a landscape business. He prunes trees and sells the limb wood that he cut to 'convenient' for him lengths. Mybetting is that he will also be short on volume.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 11, 2011)

cantoo said:


> And another problem with using cord as a measurement of wood, you still need that all important 3rd measurement. You need the length stated. Maybe his customers all ask for 24" wood?



Buying a commodity in a standard measure is a problem? How would _you_ sell it any other way?....I know, face cord, bucket full, jag, etc. etc. etc. None of htem have a standard volume.

The length of cut has zip to do with the volume measurement as long as the pile comes up to 128 cu ft.

Harry K


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## woodbooga (Dec 12, 2011)

HeX0rz said:


> I've found out that being on the delivering end of firewood to ask every question known to man before I sell a cord to someone. The majority of the time people have no idea what I'm asking them. But it helps to get a good overall idea of what is involved so they can be prepared to deal with the product.
> 
> For me, I will always cut firewood at 16" long pieces as it will make a 3 rick cord. Which keeps things simple for me. I have yet to deal with any elderly people who do firewood and want something cut shorter. In that case, it would end up being 8"ers to keep it simple.
> 
> ...



Great to hear that good to hear that good ole customer service ain't dead. Give the customer what he wants.

As for the Q at hand, a $100 Ryobi mitre saw will lop off the excess, leaving 2-4" stumps ideal for spring heating, as dukktape said.


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## Patrick62 (Dec 12, 2011)

*I sell a bit of wood, and my take on this.... is....*

.... what the heck? Unless ordered long, I *never!* send anything over 17" out. Okay, there might be a few... but they are split small! I have been selling wood for a few years now. and I will tell ya I have never had a call back for a "short load". Ain't gonna happen. Wasn't the way I was brought up.

I would nip them down. Or better yet toss them out and have the seller come and swap them out for stuff short enough to fit your stove!

http://Organic-firewood.com


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## woodguy105 (Dec 12, 2011)

I have a small wood splitting business...the first thing I ask the customer is how do they like their wood split? 

I would think a wood supplier should ask the same from someone ordering wood. That would probably cut down on the irate phone calls because the lengths are to big or small etc.


Not really the suppliers fault but...I bet there are suppliers out there who send out the odds and ends to the unsuspecting (naive) customer who does not specifuy size. Especially if the sizes go from 16' to 20"+


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## jrider (Dec 12, 2011)

If the wood is cut to all sorts of lengths simply put, the guy is a hack. I am in the south Jersey area and have gotten wood from tree guys/landscapers and this is usually the norm. They just want it on the ground and in sizes they can manage. I either burn that stuff in my OWB or take the time to cut it all to 16". Apparently though, most guys who sell firewood around here do not. One of the most common things I hear from customers is wow, this will stack nicely since its all the same length. I also enjoy hearing, I've never gotten this much when ordering a cord.


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## flyboy553 (Dec 12, 2011)

I sell firewood-over 70 full cord so far this year. Some guys want longer firewood for their OWB's, some want smaller splits for the fireplace, others want larger splits for the wood burning furnace, some even want greener wood for the OWB. Or the sauna needs short ones. A person cant have all of these different size pieces of firewood. Would be too time consuming to do that. So, I cut them all to 16 to 18 inches in length, with a medium split- kinda down the middle of what everyone wants. 

I do ask how they are going to use the wood when they call to order a cord. I will split them down to a smaller size if they need. OWB guys , I can usually go cut their wood and make it what they want.

And no, Uncle Hirsute-Lip:frown::smile2:, we do NOT usually stack firewood for the buyer. That is special order and more money.
Ted


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## zogger (Dec 12, 2011)

*Resell*

Pick out the too long pieces and resell them as "fireplace" wood. Specify in your CL ad it is too long for your heater, the approximate average size of the splits, etc. Take the money and rebuy some appropriate wood.

I wouldn't bother recutting all that stuff, unless you are immediately with no options seriously short of burnable wood. 

Cutting short pieces a little shorter is a PITA, no matter what tool you grab to do it. It's not real hard, just tedious. I do a few sticks like that, but not too many..well, mostly because I cut my own wood. too long is usually from the end of a branch that broke off or something, unavoidable. I throw those pieces in with my bummer hard to split chunks, some day in midwinter when it is too muddy to do anything else I work that pile down. 

You got to handle the chunks anyway, much easier to throw it in the back of someone's pickup and be done with it. There has to be someone local to you could use the longer chunks as-is. 

If you want to cut it yourself..sigh..I guess make a pile of the longer pieces and get comfortable and do it with a chop saw. Not in half, just a scosh off the ends. You can use the tiny ends for kindling or whatever. 

It also depends on if you got a "deal" on the wood, accepting oddball pieces. If you did, no harm nor foul, that's what you ordered. If the wood you bought was significantly cheaper than the other average prices in your area..that's what you got. Cheaper price for sweat equity.

Just for grins, what did you pay for this cord of wood?


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## olyman (Dec 12, 2011)

Cut the offending pieces down and burn them. It isn't every day that you hear folks complaining that they got MORE than they expected. Guess it's proof you can't make everybody happy.

.[/QUOTE]

hiS VOLUMNE didnt change, hence the complaint,,which is justified. i wonder if judges,,would feel the same,,if it happened to them?????????????????


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## Whitespider (Dec 12, 2011)

Joeypole said:


> *If the seller is a friend of the family then I would do one of two things.
> 1. Bash the living daylights out of him for ripping you off to the friend of a friend.
> and if that doesn't work
> 2. Do what every Keyboard Rambo would do, bash the living daylights out of him on CL.*



*Or...* You could man-up, face the issue head-on and call the guy. Explain the problem (a third of the wood won't fit in stove) and ask if he could remedy the problem. You may just be surprised...


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## lone wolf (Dec 12, 2011)

blackdogon57 said:


> 20" + is not a standard length for firewood . You have a right to be pissed off and who ever sold you the wood should be ashamed
> of themselves for ripping you off. In these parts anything over 16" is special order. I have sold hundreds of cords of wood and can
> count on one hand customers who have asked for wood longer than 16".



You are right 20 inches is not standard 24 is.A legal cord is 4x4 x8 feet the old way is 24 inches long x 16 feet and 4 foot high 128 cubic feet.Now that everyone has wood stoves they all want 16 inch pieces so they fit .This causes a multitude of problems where the old is not in keeping with the new!So now what to do well most of them sell 16 inch pieces to keep the customers happy but then to be legal you have to cut and split more to equal the 128 square foot volume.So this is where the problems come in and everyone does it different.Man am I tired of this just cut them to fit and be done with it in 20 minutes!!!!


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## Sagetown (Dec 12, 2011)

porgyiii said:


> I am relatively new to this wood burning thing, but I feel pretty confident I got ripped off. Ordered a cord of seasoned, mixed hardwood from a local dealer the other day. Now I could probably contest his definition of "seasoned" and "cord," but I'll reserve my judgment until I have it stacked.
> 
> HOWEVER, I can tell you for certain that as much as 30% of this entire load of split wood is over 21" long. My stove can barely squeeze in a 20.5" log. Needless to say, I'm pissed :mad2: Am I out of place assuming that the standard split firewood is sold in 16" - 20" lengths? This just seems like an underhanded practice that reeks of laziness (longer pieces = less cuts = less time).
> 
> Am I wrong? Do I have a case for telling him to come pick this largely useless pile of wood and give me my $ back?





HeX0rz said:


> I've found out that being on the delivering end of firewood to ask every question known to man before I sell a cord to someone. The majority of the time people have no idea what I'm asking them. But it helps to get a good overall idea of what is involved so they can be prepared to deal with the product.
> 
> For me, I will always cut firewood at 16" long pieces as it will make a 3 rick cord. Which keeps things simple for me. I have yet to deal with any elderly people who do firewood and want something cut shorter. In that case, it would end up being 8"ers to keep it simple.
> 
> ...





cantoo said:


> And another problem with using cord as a measurement of wood, you still need that all important 3rd measurement. You need the length stated. Maybe his customers all ask for 24" wood?





Joeypole said:


> If the seller is a friend of the family then I would do one of two things.
> 
> 1. Bash the living daylights out of him for ripping you off to the friend of a friend.
> 
> ...





blackdogon57 said:


> 20" + is not a standard length for firewood . You have a right to be pissed off and who ever sold you the wood should be ashamed
> of themselves for ripping you off. In these parts anything over 16" is special order. I have sold hundreds of cords of wood and can
> count on one hand customers who have asked for wood longer than 16".





mikereynolds said:


> As a firewood seller, I have this happen from time to time. We usually cut our wood at 16" but. some customers need 14" or less and some with fireplaces like them 20" or more. some specify lengths some do not but claim to have after delivery. Bottom line for us is MAKE THE CUSTOMER HAPPY PEROID! If we have to send a man to cut down the wood we will. If we have to come pick up the load and refund money or exchange it for something else? we will. Even if it was not our fault. Ethics is the name of the game and a good reputation is worth more than a little extra work, a loss of money or a simple appology. If you are in this business for the long haul protect your reputation at all cost. It pays off with loyal repeat customers and refferals. Try to invision the conversation at the family table with neighbors and potential customers. The conversation can be like let me tell you about my firewood guy...how would you like the rest of the story to be? if my customer is happy he will tell someone but if he is not, I want to hear all about it so I can fix it. 'nuf said..





jrider said:


> If the wood is cut to all sorts of lengths simply put, the guy is a hack. I am in the south Jersey area and have gotten wood from tree guys/landscapers and this is usually the norm. They just want it on the ground and in sizes they can manage. I either burn that stuff in my OWB or take the time to cut it all to 16". Apparently though, most guys who sell firewood around here do not. One of the most common things I hear from customers is wow, this will stack nicely since its all the same length. I also enjoy hearing, I've never gotten this much when ordering a cord.



This Topic is a good read. Worth a few reps to the OP and others listed. See your 'Reputations' on your 'Settings' page.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 12, 2011)

I didn't know 16" was THE standard.Most of my customers want theirs 18-20 inches.I've been selling firewood for over 20 years and in that time I have 2 customers who wanted 16" wood an 2 who want 14" stovewood(split pretty small) I don't mean to be hard on the OP.Welcome to AS, it's a great place with great folks.All I meant was a little communication could have prevented this problem.


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## zogger (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> I didn't know 16" was THE standard.Most of my customers want theirs 18-20 inches.I've been selling firewood for over 20 years and in that time I have 2 customers who wanted 16" wood an 2 who want 14" stovewood(split pretty small) I don't mean to be hard on the OP.Welcome to AS, it's a great place with great folks.All I meant was a little communication could have prevented this problem.



--just wondering if most of your customers are fireplace users, or wood heater users. 16" is incredibly common as some sort of standard size most any place I have lived, for use in stoves or heaters. Also makes for uniform easy to measure out full cords. Three rows of 4 foot high and 8 foot long. 24" for fireplace wood or large boiler wood is two rows pretty easy to measure out. 18 inch wood or 20??? 18, OK, maybe, but 20 is way clunky sized, IMO.

Yes, doable, just seems clunky. Back in the day, we did 12 (double a "normal" split) , 16 (regular handfull sized split), or 24, depending on what they wanted, wood cookstove, normal heater, fireplace. And fireplace wood was typically smallish diameter, unsplit. "Pretty" logs. Got more requests for that then split wood. Usually birch logs.


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 12, 2011)

Been at this for a long time

Second question to any new customer is what length? First is how do you plan on paying?

With the exception of a couple regulars over the years, I've always cut "stove wood" to 16 to 18 inches. When I deliver I tell my customers if when they're stacking they find anything they feel needs to be trimmed to put it in a pile, let me know and when I'm in the area I'll come and snip it down if they wish. Most will handle it themselves but once in a blue moon I'll get a single Mom or and elderly customer that will call. In most cases it's 1/2 dozen pieces or so. Takes 5 minutes when I'm in their area but builds good customer relations. Been known to smack a couple with the mall too if they ask. 

Not assigning any fault, but I think in this case there's a shared responsibility. The seller should know what length he's produced, and the buyer should know what length he needs.

As an aside, I have customers with, and I as well have a stove, Jotul F118, that takes 24 inch length wood. That said, I cut it to 20 to 22 inches for them, (no complaints) and myself. Having a little clearance built in certainly makes loading the stove much easier.

Take Care


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 12, 2011)

zogger said:


> --just wondering if most of your customers are fireplace users, or wood heater users. 16" is incredibly common as some sort of standard size most any place I have lived, for use in stoves or heaters. Also makes for uniform easy to measure out full cords. Three rows of 4 foot high and 8 foot long. 24" for fireplace wood or large boiler wood is two rows pretty easy to measure out. 18 inch wood or 20??? 18, OK, maybe, but 20 is way clunky sized, IMO.
> 
> Yes, doable, just seems clunky. Back in the day, we did 12 (double a "normal" split) , 16 (regular handfull sized split), or 24, depending on what they wanted, wood cookstove, normal heater, fireplace. And fireplace wood was typically smallish diameter, unsplit. "Pretty" logs. Got more requests for that then split wood. Usually birch logs.



From what I have gathered over the years, the most common wood burner for my customers is wood heaters.Them big old Ashleys with the 30" firebox is still pretty common around here.Also, the old fashioned cast iron boxwood stoves are fairly common as well and they handle 20" wood just fine.My 2 stovewood burners have old woodstoves at their deercamps with the little firebox on the side,oven and waterheater all in one.And yes,they pay extra for the smaller splits.The folks I sell to with fireplaces have never commented on the length, and most of my customers are repeats from over the years.
I have a fireplace and an old Ashley.I burn sweetgum cut 24" mostly in the Ashley, because I cut a lot of it out of peoples yards and fencerows etc. and nobody will buy that so I use it instead of my for "sale wood" with no problems.
When I quoted 18-20 that is mostly for a range.I mark my logs at 18", sometimes I get crooked a little cutting.


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## kmcinms (Dec 12, 2011)

*Wow, good discussion*

I'm not in the firewood business, but I have sold wood before. The 16" "standard" you guys talk about is new to me and seems to be more work to process 128 cu ft. than with using 24" wood, but it makes sense when selling cu ft. orders for short wood. I cut my heater wood between 18-22" and average 20". The 22" is when I want to leave the doors open and watch the fire. Both my inserts have 24"+ capacity, 20-22" works great in them. 18"-20", along with all the odds and ends, is what I burn day in and day out. I sell the 18-20" to customers with wood heater inserts and never had a complaint about the length. I have some that want 24" for the fireplace and want it split smaller for a good burn. No problem for me. They get all the nice straight stuff and I can use all the odd stuff in my heaters. 
Back to the OP, like a lot on here have said, call the guy back and 'splain to him what you need. Happy burning.


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## kmcinms (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> From what I have gathered over the years, the most common wood burner for my customers is wood heaters.Them big old Ashleys with the 30" firebox is still pretty common around here.Also, the old fashioned cast iron boxwood stoves are fairly common as well and they handle 20" wood just fine.My 2 stovewood burners have old woodstoves at their deercamps with the little firebox on the side,oven and waterheater all in one.And yes,they pay extra for the smaller splits.The folks I sell to with fireplaces have never commented on the length, and most of my customers are repeats from over the years.
> * I have a fireplace and an old Ashley.I burn sweetgum cut 24" mostly in the Ashley, because I cut a lot of it out of peoples yards and fencerows etc. and nobody will buy that so I use it instead of my for "sale wood" with no problems.*
> When I quoted 18-20 that is mostly for a range.I mark my logs at 18", sometimes I get crooked a little cutting.



Right on! Same here, been boinin' gum since I started my heaters this year. My Ashley holds 24" with no problem.


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## mga (Dec 12, 2011)

i can understand the 16" rule, after all, if a cord is 4 x 4 x 8 then the cut wood has to be cut to make the 4 foot wide size. generally, 3 face cords make a full cord of wood.

so, if you are going to sell wood, cut it at 16". if you cut wood for personal use, cut it to the size you want.

16" seems to be the standard, why not stick with it?


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## huskystihl (Dec 12, 2011)

blackdogon57 said:


> 20" + is not a standard length for firewood . You have a right to be pissed off and who ever sold you the wood should be ashamed
> of themselves for ripping you off. In these parts anything over 16" is special order. I have sold hundreds of cords of wood and can
> count on one hand customers who have asked for wood longer than 16".



I respectfully disagree. We to have sold thousands of cords and if I took 99% of our customers wood cut to 15" I would get a piece thrown through the truck window. That being said is exactly why we no longer sell firewood, most customers think a cord should be delivered in a semeye and 9 out of 10 customers wouldn't know a pice of oak if it was crammed in their crack. Used to do it during the winter for extra cash but it's just not worth it, it's much easier to dump full uncut timber from takedowns throughout the week. Let them deal with cutting splitting and griping when they find out how much work it actually is.


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## huskystihl (Dec 12, 2011)

huskystihl said:


> I respectfully disagree. We to have sold thousands of cords and if I took 99% of our customers wood cut to 15" I would get a piece thrown through the truck window. That being said is exactly why we no longer sell firewood, most customers think a cord should be delivered in a semeye and 9 out of 10 customers wouldn't know a pice of oak if it was crammed in their crack. Used to do it during the winter for extra cash but it's just not worth it, it's much easier to dump full uncut timber from takedowns throughout the week. Let them deal with cutting splitting and griping when they find out how much work it actually is.



Let me clarify that 20" is not the standard but 16-20" is the norm not custom order, at least around here. I agree that anything over 20 wont fit in most newer woodburners though.


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## lone wolf (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> I didn't know 16" was THE standard.Most of my customers want theirs 18-20 inches.I've been selling firewood for over 20 years and in that time I have 2 customers who wanted 16" wood an 2 who want 14" stovewood(split pretty small) I don't mean to be hard on the OP.Welcome to AS, it's a great place with great folks.All I meant was a little communication could have prevented this problem.



18 to 20 is what they all want on average 16 is lesser in demand.


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## CrappieKeith (Dec 12, 2011)

My 2 cents...is there a standard in wood length...how can that be..with all of the wood burning appliances out there????
When it comes to buying wood. Do folks buy from several providers??? I know in my world that I like 1 guy. Which that 1 guy maybe a hard thing if you are some what picky about getting well seasoned wood.
I have found that 1 guy. I have asked for a 2 foot length and I have pre ordered my 7 cord.
This way he knows exactly what and how much I'll need...really he cuts just for me and has all my wood in a pile waiting to be delivered. Actually my next years supply is already cut,split and drying waiting for me next Oct.

My advice is to build a relationship with your wood guy. Give him all of your business....referals may get you a deal now and then...at least my guy gives me one for new biz.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 12, 2011)

mga said:


> 16" seems to be the standard, why not stick with it?



Because that's not what my customers want.I'm sure we've all heard about the customer being right.I'm sure that if the OP had requested 16" wood he would have got it.
I will go out of my way to accomodate a customer as much as possible.I try to keep a rick or 2 of 15-16 inch wood on hand, but the bulk of the folks who buy my wood get 18-20 inch wood because that's what they tell me they want.
So the standard in one area may be differant in another.Communication is the key and knowing your market is paramount to successful firewooding.And you can quote me on that.:biggrin:


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## CentaurG2 (Dec 12, 2011)

Oh the happy wood customer. Its too long, its too short, too dry, too wet, too chunky, too much bark, not enough bark, too many slivers, too dirty etc. Here is what to do. Sort all the wood and simply put aside any piece you feel is too long, count them and ask the supplier to replace them with shorter pieces. EZPZ. Around here, the 16” piece is standard especially if the wood is from a processer but even a processor throws out a long piece every now and again.


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 12, 2011)

My highly unscientific web surfing at lunch time...number of models by log length. 

At best you can say there's a roughly even split between 18" and smaller models and 20" and larger models.

Of course, I don't know how many of each model they sell to weight these numbers to figure out which is most common log length actually found in the wild.

Jotul:
1 -- 12"
2 -- 16"
2 -- 18"
1 -- 20"
2 -- 22"
2 -- 24"

Vermont Castings:
3 -- 16"
1 -- 18"
2 -- 22"
1 -- 24"

Vogelzang:
3 -- 17"
2 -- 18"
2 -- 20"
1 -- 22"
3 -- 24"+ (Thanks to the non-EPA Boxwood stoves in their lineup)

===============


> Jotul F118, that takes 24 inch length wood.



I do mostly 16-18" though I can take MUCH longer. 

I'm trying to remember to cut a bit of oak & ash on the long side for use on very, very cold days when I want to load up the firebox to the maximum.

The reason I'm looking at the F118 as the stove to upgrade to next year instead of an F3 is specifically so I can have flexibility in log size and not be limited to the 16" and always having to measure my wood when cutting


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 12, 2011)

CrappieKeith said:


> My 2 cents...is there a standard in wood length...how can that be..with all of the wood burning appliances out there????
> When it comes to buying wood. Do folks buy from several providers??? I know in my world that I like 1 guy. Which that 1 guy maybe a hard thing if you are some what picky about getting well seasoned wood.
> I have found that 1 guy. I have asked for a 2 foot length and I have pre ordered my 7 cord.
> This way he knows exactly what and how much I'll need...really he cuts just for me and has all my wood in a pile waiting to be delivered. Actually my next years supply is already cut,split and drying waiting for me next Oct.
> ...



Nothing wrong with giving a customer what he wants. The real pont is that both ends should be sure that they _know_ what the customer wants. If one is cutting lengths at whim, i.e., what's covenient while trimming atree, then when selling dthat person is the one to be checking what the customer wants. 

Yes there are generally agreed upon standard lenghts in any area. Here, unless specified, you will get 16" (+/-) unless you ask for special...and expect to pay extra.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> Because that's not what my customers want.I'm sure we've all heard about the customer being right.I'm sure that if the OP had requested 16" wood he would have got it.
> I will go out of my way to accomodate a customer as much as possible.I try to keep a rick or 2 of 15-16 inch wood on hand, but the bulk of the folks who buy my wood get 18-20 inch wood because that's what they tell me they want.
> So the standard in one area may be differant in another.Communication is the key and knowing your market is paramount to successful firewooding.And you can quote me on that.:biggrin:



And I am sure, by his descritpion of sizes varying all over the place it wouldn't have mattered _what_ he wanted. 

Yes there are regional standards and the customer should specify if he wants a different length. He should also order it well in advance and expect to pay extra.

Harry K


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 12, 2011)

turnkey4099 said:


> And I am sure, by his descritpion of sizes varying all over the place it wouldn't have mattered _what_ he wanted.
> 
> Yes there are regional standards and the customer should specify if he wants a different length. He should also order it well in advance and expect to pay extra.
> 
> Harry K



You are absolutely correct,my friend, 16-21+ inches sounds a little on the sloppy side.I kinda took off on the "standard length" thing and hardly noticed that.
I think we should note this occasion.
"On December the 12th of the year of our Lord 2011 at approximately 3:10 p.m. CST.The fellow firewooders Turnkey4099 and redheadwoodshed did at last agree on something" 
A very momentous occasion indeed and I'm glad we did it Harry!


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## mga (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> Because that's not what my customers want.I'm sure we've all heard about the customer being right.I'm sure that if the OP had requested 16" wood he would have got it.
> I will go out of my way to accomodate a customer as much as possible.I try to keep a rick or 2 of 15-16 inch wood on hand, but the bulk of the folks who buy my wood get 18-20 inch wood because that's what they tell me they want.
> So the standard in one area may be differant in another.Communication is the key and knowing your market is paramount to successful firewooding.And you can quote me on that.:biggrin:



so, you're telling me you cut/stack and dry wood at various lengths for each different customer?

i don't sell firewood, but if i ordered a full cord and you cut them at 18 to 20 inches one of us is getting screwed. explain to me how you get a 4 x 4 x 8 cord?


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 12, 2011)

mga said:


> so, you're telling me you cut/stack and dry wood at various lengths for each different customer?
> 
> i don't sell firewood, but if i ordered a full cord and you cut them at 18 to 20 inches one of us is getting screwed. explain to me how you get a 4 x 4 x 8 cord?



The answer to your first question is yes.I only have a few customers,so why not.I'm happy and they are happy.
To your second query I will tell you this, 128cuft. is a cord.At 18-20 inches I stack it about 3'6'- 3'8"x8' per rick(or facecord as you say) 3 of these is slightly over a cord(128cuft.) so I guess I'm the one getting screwed.
In all my years I never new firewood was such a precision endeaver.


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## CrappieKeith (Dec 12, 2011)

turnkey4099 said:


> Yes there are generally agreed upon standard lenghts in any area. Here, unless specified, you will get 16" (+/-) unless you ask for special...and expect to pay extra.
> 
> Harry K



Longer pieces equate to less cuts..I also have a big door so my splits are bigger...but only if they are over 12"...sounds like a lot less work..but to charge more especially when you know in advance because of the standing order...that idea does not hold water.

I can see that to have a standard length would be great knowing there will be a ton of calls looking for wood from folks that flip through the market like I flip through cosmo at the dentist office.LOL


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## pdhowell (Dec 12, 2011)

This same happened to me this fall. A guy I know and trust, needed money, had wood and I said "not more than 18 inches". He bought some wood from a guy who cut longer wood for his OWB. A misunderstanding about the length of fire wood is not worth ruining a good relationship. The original seller, felt bad and offered to cut the ends off the too long pieces of the whole two cords. I figured we could use my splitter as a vise. The splitter was a wedge on ram design and can pinch the wood crosswise across the foot. It seem to work well. I am not sure how well this would work for wedge on beam splitters. Two of us, one afternoon, done.

Maybe useful


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## mga (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> The answer to your first question is yes.I only have a few customers,so why not.I'm happy and they are happy.
> To your second query I will tell you this, 128cuft. is a cord.At 18-20 inches I stack it about 3'6'- 3'8"x8' per rick(or facecord as you say) 3 of these is slightly over a cord(128cuft.) so I guess I'm the one getting screwed.
> * In all my years I never new firewood was such a precision endeave*r.




lol..have ya ever followed some of the threads on this in here? they can go one for pages and cause some heated arguments too.

how many pieces in a cord? how much does a cord weigh? how many cords per pick up truck? etc etc


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## cantoo (Dec 12, 2011)

redheadwoodshed, see that's the problem, these guys stuck on the cord size don't seem to realize that a cord is 128 cubic feet, so if you cut the rounds to a different length it isn't going to be 4'x4'x8' but it's still going to be 128 cubic feet. My point I have been trying to make is that a cord is 128 cubic feet, the 4'x4'x8' is just one way of measuring it. Guess what so is 3'7'x6'x6' so is 2'x4'x16' xo is 1'x1'x128' and so on and so on. Now where's this deadhorse I got a fresh new stick and I'm gonna beat it?


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 12, 2011)

*Stove or Fireplace? Always a Difference*

In general, I supply stovewood at 16" to 18" and no longer unless the customer tells me he has a big stove that can burn longer lengths (like my Federal Airtight 288). Fireplaces can usually always handle a 24" log. When a customer tells me (and I always ask) if they are burning wood in a fireplace, I look for the longer logs in the stack and supply those first. I decided years ago not to cut logs longer than 24" unless it's a special request. Heck, the maximum length I can easily split with the hydraulic is 25".

So, I can satisfy both possibilities. But, always find out in advance what the customer can handle and never supply a log longer than that. As a rule: 

If you are a buyer, always tell the supplier what your longest log can be.
If you are a seller, never sell a bunch of short logs to a fireplace owner and never sell long logs to a woodstove owner.


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## colin.p (Dec 12, 2011)

Up here, no one sells wood by the cord, only face cord. Now two years ago, I got some wood from a distant relative of my wife's, who obviously had a much bigger stove than mine (actually, most people have a bigger stove than mine) and I swear every stick required me to cut it in half and/or split it. I can only get a small 18 inch stick in the stove, but 16 inches is optimal. However, I still had a full face cord left in the spring, after burning 9 face cords. Now, I get the sticks 15-17 inches and I run out in March (going to have to buy 12 or so for next winter). I can certainly see how buying a true 128 cubic foot cord cut on the long side would be a total PITA, but as a face cord, still a PITA but you get more wood.


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## cjnspecial (Dec 12, 2011)

I've never heard a man complain about his wood being too long before.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 13, 2011)

mga said:


> lol..have ya ever followed dome of the threads on this in here? they can go one for pages and cause some heated arguments too.
> 
> how many pieces in a cord? how much does a cord weigh? how many cords per pick up truck? etc etc



Yes I'm laughing,too.What I should have said is I never knew firewood was such a precision endeavor until I joined AS.I have follwed many of these threads and found some folks like to really over complicate matters.I'm sure just like any other business, firewood has it's share of crooks.I guess that's why some states feel the need to regulate it, heck I didn't even know that until I came here.Around these parts people that buy firewood generally know what to expect, and believe me, you and anybody else who will stand still long enough to listen, will hear about it if they don't get it.
That's why it's my policy(not the states, as far as I know they don't have one) to give a little more just to be on the safe side.I think that it's better for my bottom line in the long run.
I hope the OP and his supplier can come to terms.I hate to see my favorite endeavor besmurched by shady dealings.
As we all know,gathering, cutting, splitting,stacking,loading, hauling, delivering, that's all hard work, honest labor, a thing to take pride in.To me it's crazy to dishonor these things for money by trying to rip somebody off.


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## lone wolf (Dec 13, 2011)

mga said:


> i can understand the 16" rule, after all, if a cord is 4 x 4 x 8 then the cut wood has to be cut to make the 4 foot wide size. generally, 3 face cords make a full cord of wood.
> 
> so, if you are going to sell wood, cut it at 16". if you cut wood for personal use, cut it to the size you want.
> 
> 16" seems to be the standard, why not stick with it?



Then you need a standard price thats a lot more work.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 13, 2011)

lone wolf said:


> Then you need a standard price thats a lot more work.



Yea, maybe we should do something on the same lines as opec and really jack the price up in the winter.I can see it now old ladies selling their knik-knacks an what-nots just to get a wheelbarrow load of wood.We'd have to criminalize picking up limbs and other such found wood.All wood for the use of heating must come from the firewood cartel or else!:msp_scared:


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## groundup (Dec 13, 2011)

To the OP

For goodness sake just call the guy and see if he'll swing by with his saw and take 20 minutes to shorten the 30% that's too long!


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 13, 2011)

groundup said:


> To the OP
> 
> For goodness sake just call the guy and see if he'll swing by with his saw and take 20 minutes to shorten the 30% that's too long!



Or use a band saw to shorten the long logs and save the cutoff ends for good kindling.


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## CrappieKeith (Dec 14, 2011)

cjnspecial said:


> I've never heard a man complain about his wood being too long before.



I needed a good chuckle this morning...good one...rep atcha!


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 14, 2011)

You think you got it bad? Look what I got to deal with.











All of it is at least 22 inches long and up to 2 ft in diameter. Dead for 4 years. Next time I see that hack I'm going to kick his butt. Wait.....I cut my own wood 

Seriously though. You guys have opened my eyes as to why I do not want to sell. 16 inches +/- .5 inches?? Really??? To be honest that sounds like a guy with a processors argument. I've cut for 35 years and can't hold that on every piece I cut ALL DAY LONG with a chainsaw. I guess I'll have to admit I am an official firewood hack now. I'd venture to say their are a lot more than me that can't do it. My hat is off, I guess, to those that can without measuring.


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 14, 2011)

> To be honest that sounds like a guy with a processors argument.



*shrug*

With about 1 in 4 woodstove models out there designed for 16" logs and 1 in 4 for 18" logs, I'd say it's more a woodstove argument.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 14, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> *shrug*
> 
> With about 1 in 4 woodstove models out there designed for 16" logs and 1 in 4 for 18" logs, I'd say it's more a woodstove argument.



Not arguing the length, it's the +/- .500 inches that I can't do by eye.


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## jrider (Dec 14, 2011)

Kevin, I don't think anyone can do it that close all day by eye. It is easy enough though to use a piece of lumber chalk and a 16" stick or whatever length you desire. Once the tree is limbed you just start at the trunk end and go from there. For the minute and half it takes, you may really like the results.


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## logbutcher (Dec 15, 2011)

Well another Firewood Bashing thread.....oh wellllllllllll. Poor, poor victim. 
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot---what's this RULE about firewood length ? 16" ? Where is it written ?otstir:

And, since when does the whine imply the lack of *caveat emptor* and *personal responsibility* ? 

Let's get to the real "Rule" :

BUSINESS IS BUSINESS. FRIENDS AND FAMILY ARE FRIENDS AND FAMILY. SEPARATE.

Anecdote. I couldn't harvest our firewood last year. A trailer of log lengths ( 24' ) was ordered from someone I 'knew' who logs, promising me mixed hardwoods--oaks, hard maple, 'some' soft maple, white ash. The load was all soft/red maple. He took 20% off the bill without any anger, ill will, rancor since the load came from his sub contractor.

Lecture over, I am dismissed.

P.S. Measuring firewood--take a thick magic marker and tape measure. From the tip of the bar measure 12", 16", 18", what ever, then draw a solid line on the saw or bar on all sides. Then use that line to accurately cut on the fallen timber. Simple. Reliable. Fast. Easy. We usually cut from the top down to the trunk.


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## Chainsaw_Maniac (Dec 15, 2011)

When I sell wood, I have rules:

(1) Customer (or friend/family) must be present at delivery.
(2) Must look at wood before I dump it
(3) Must pay cash after I dump it

This saves all kinds of hassles. Even if I were selling 22" wood, the customer could accept or reject it.

For customers - do not buy something you haven't looked at from a seller you ave never dealt with!


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## logbutcher (Dec 15, 2011)

Chainsaw_Maniac said:


> When I sell wood, I have rules:
> 
> (1) Customer (or* friend/family*) must be present at delivery.
> (2) Must look at wood before I dump it
> ...



CM. You do realise ("realize" for U.S.) that your Canadian species is NOT the same as your southern brethren ? :hmm3grin2orange:

The only rule of selling or buying applies to U.S. : never do Business (big 'B' ) with friends or relatives. It is the "Uncle Freddie" Rule.

P.S. That you in the avatar ? Cute.


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## J.W Younger (Dec 15, 2011)

I just cut year round for my own use and have for many years. Since my owb takes up to 30" 24" works well and the splitter is 26. I git lots of calls from people lookin to buy and i tell em right up front what the price and lenght are but still have people complain the woods to long and cost too much. Its human nature i suppose...
People round here think in terms of ricks and i don't try and change that, i just tell em it sounds like they outta buy from the seller with the better price instead of dealin with my canterous ass. Sometimes when i'm in a really good mood remindin em they called me not the other way round.


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## Chainsaw_Maniac (Dec 15, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> CM. You do realise ("realize" for U.S.) that your Canadian species is NOT the same as your southern brethren ? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> The only rule of selling or buying applies to U.S. : never do Business (big 'B' ) with friends or relatives. It is the "Uncle Freddie" Rule.
> 
> P.S. That you in the avatar ? Cute.



I hate dealing with friends/family as well. They always want a discount and don't understand that I have too much time and money invested in the wood to offer discounts. Then they are surprised they didn't get any extra wood. 

Yes, this is me in my avatar.


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## stihlrookie (Dec 15, 2011)

Wood Doctor said:


> Or use a band saw to shorten the long logs and save the cutoff ends for good kindling.



Bandsaw, chopsaw, radial arm saw, reciprocating saw, build a sawbuck with pallets cut the stuff yourself. Live and learn. 

I cut and sell all my firewood at 16", +/- .5". I explained this in another thread but this is my method: I start at the butt, using my saw as my measure, the powerhead on my MS362 is 16" from the back handle to the bumper spikes. I hold my saw parallel to the log and hold the handle right at the end of the log, look down at the front of the saw, take note of where the bumper spikes come to and cut at that spot. Repeat. It is much quicker than walking the entire length of a tree and marking out lengths and then coming back down and cutting.

If I delivered wood, recieved payment and then got a call stating the wood was to long I would say pound sand. I make it very clear what I am delivering and also have the customer okay the load before I drop and so the only call backs I get are for repeat business.

Sidenote: I did make an exception one time, gentleman wanted 24" wood for his man fireplace. We spoke on the phone, I explained I really was geared more towards 16" but he really wanted that 24" wood. When I showed up with the load of 24" splits he said it was to long for his fireplace BUT he would take it anyway if a gave him a discount! We went back and forth in his garage for a few minutes he did finally agree to the price we had spoke of earlier and took possesion of the wood. I was ready to leave him standing there and deal with the 24" stuff somehow but he could see it was premium, buckskin tamarack. It was a sneaky way to try and get a deal. Be careful on those "custom cut" orders.


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## Constrictor (Dec 15, 2011)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Not arguing the length, it's the +/- .500 inches that I can't do by eye.



im with ya on that one. ive been cutting for several years for my own use and i can vary 4" or more in length. i just cut by eye sometimes off a limb that on a still standing tree and my wood ranges from 18-22" or even the ocasional 24" length. i have a big stove and can usually put a long piece in from corner to corner till that split is burned up.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 15, 2011)

Constrictor said:


> im with ya on that one. ive been cutting for several years for my own use and i can vary 4" or more in length. i just cut by eye sometimes off a limb that on a still standing tree and my wood ranges from 18-22" or even the ocasional 24" length. i have a big stove and can usually put a long piece in from corner to corner till that split is burned up.



Our splitters max out at 25 inches and occasionally I'll have to recut. I was thinking guys were implying they do it by eye and I see they measure or mark so that makes sense. I can take 48's but Dad likes them smaller and they are easier to handle and throw in at 24. Cutting the same does make stacking easier and I'm normally there.






I have found that when dealing with 3 footers I'll mark them as the size plays tricks with your eyes. the same thing with cutting uprights, I guess it's what you get used to.


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## Chainsaw_Maniac (Dec 15, 2011)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> .....
> 
> I have found that when dealing with 3 footers I'll mark them as the size plays tricks with your eyes. the same thing with cutting uprights, I guess it's what you get used to.



Yeah. The last 3-4 cuts I just mark it with the running saw. I use my foot as a ruler too.


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## colin.p (Dec 15, 2011)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Our splitters max out at 25 inches and occasionally I'll have to recut. I was thinking guys were implying they do it by eye and I see they measure or mark so that makes sense. I can take 48's but Dad likes them smaller and they are easier to handle and throw in at 24. Cutting the same does make stacking easier and I'm normally there.
> 
> I have found that when dealing with 3 footers I'll mark them as the size plays tricks with your eyes. the same thing with cutting uprights, I guess it's what you get used to.



OT :hmm3grin2orange:
Oh man, nice pile of wood. I would love to be able to cut my own, but at this stage of the game, I am reduced to the odd branch in my yard.
Years ago, I did go out cutting a couple winters with my father-in-law (he was an old lumber-jack from the Temaskaming (sp?) area) and even though I was a green-horn, I really enjoyed the experience.


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 15, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> *shrug*
> 
> With about 1 in 4 woodstove models out there designed for 16" logs and 1 in 4 for 18" logs, I'd say it's more a woodstove argument.



However "designed" for does not mean it won't take longer pieces...withing reason.

16" =/- .5"? no way without a processor or wasting one whole lotta time marking and cutting acurately without one. When I am selling they get a nominal 16" which will vary at least an inch each way.

Harry K


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## tuneshop (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't participate much on here(or any other forum). But I hope the OP called the seller and tried rational discussion..
In my car audio business I can tell you that I can't fix your problem if I don't know you have one. 

I also have a wood stove that I burn 16 inch pieces in.It will hold an 18 (supposedly). I can say that I ALWAYS tell a custom cutter how long I need it cut. When a neighbor or family member asks me if I want some free firewood they have cut up,I always cringe because I HATE to recut firewood..


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## banshee67 (Dec 15, 2011)

'custom cut' firewood is hilarious

do these people custom cut wood to every inch increment from 12 to 20 ahead of time?

how do you have custom cut AND seasoned wood.. ?
you see it all the time
"will cut to your specified length" .. in an ad for seasoned wood.
funny stuff


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## Lumberjack2277 (Dec 15, 2011)

I cut firewood at the usual 16" size... I have a line scribed on all of my saws, helps greatly. Keeps pieces within 1-2"'s of the 16". I've never had any complaints. If someone were to say that they are "too short", i'd mention to just "throw in"a few more pieces :msp_rolleyes: NOW, I have come across customers (normally females) who were sold some really nice, seasoned 24-26" pieces... that they couldn't even burn. Buyer beware in this business.... gotta' watch what the bootleggers bring ya!! :msp_tongue:


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## stihlrookie (Dec 16, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> 'custom cut' firewood is hilarious
> 
> do these people custom cut wood to every inch increment from 12 to 20 ahead of time?
> 
> ...



Then laugh your arse off at this. I cut standing dead western larch(tamarack) dry as a popcorn fart, mc less than 20%. I haul logs to my house in 65" lengths, make 3 cuts and have 4 pieces of 16",+/-.5", dry, "seasoned" firewood. I typically had 2 cords of these logs at my house throughout the summer and COULD have cut to a customers specs. After my experience with dudeman and his sneaky try at a discount I will not offer any thing other than 16" firewood.

View attachment 211736


Doesn't get more dry or seasoned than that.


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## jrider (Dec 16, 2011)

stihlrookie said:


> Then laugh your arse off at this. I cut standing dead western larch(tamarack) dry as a popcorn fart, mc less than 20%. I haul logs to my house in 65" lengths, make 3 cuts and have 4 pieces of 16",+/-.5", dry, "seasoned" firewood. I typically had 2 cords of these logs at my house throughout the summer and COULD have cut to a customers specs. After my experience with dudeman and his sneaky try at a discount I will not offer any thing other than 16" firewood.
> 
> View attachment 211736
> 
> ...



What you aren't taking into consideration is where you and the poster you are addressing live. In the east we get a lot more rain and the humidity is usually high. Its very tough to cut/split logs on demand and expect them to be truly seasoned no matter how long they have been laying around. I found this out the hard way last winter when I went to cut/split and sell some 30"+ diameter white and red oak logs that had been down and off the ground for 20 months. Stuff was wet as can be inside. 
Also, standing dead stuff around here isn't a whole let drier than the stuff that is still alive. I realize this varies with species too.


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## Whitespider (Dec 16, 2011)

Seriously? SIX FRIGGIN' PAGES!
Have you called the guy yet?

Cutting firewood to the same length isn't difficult or time consuming. It doesn't require tape measures, markers, gauges, strings, sticks, or any such. Simply use the bar attached to the saw (or the bar and saw if using a short bar), place some marks on it using automotive touch-up paint if you have to. Giving the saw a quarter-turn, and making a visual reference (such as a break in the bark, a bit of moss, even a stray saw chip) as you position yourself for the next cut adds zero time to the job.


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## stihlrookie (Dec 16, 2011)

jrider said:


> What you aren't taking into consideration is where you and the poster you are addressing live. In the east we get a lot more rain and the humidity is usually high. Its very tough to cut/split logs on demand and expect them to be truly seasoned no matter how long they have been laying around. I found this out the hard way last winter when I went to cut/split and sell some 30"+ diameter white and red oak logs that had been down and off the ground for 20 months. Stuff was wet as can be inside.
> Also, standing dead stuff around here isn't a whole let drier than the stuff that is still alive. I realize this varies with species too.



You are correct, geographic location plays a huge role in seasoning of firewood. I wasn't certain what part of Waynes World Banshee resided in.

White spider,
You sir, understand the premise and obviously practice the same method as I. These guys are making it sound like friggin rocket science to cut firewood at a precise length. There is no need to waste time and effort measuring and marking as you pointed out, AGAIN. 
Very nice looking rows you have there for sure. I do pretty much the same but I am space restricted so my rows are closer together. More like 3" apart, but I am cutting dead, dry, seasoned firewood.


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## tuneshop (Dec 16, 2011)

at the risk of needlessly extending a thread..

banshee,I do have a considerable percentage of the wood I burn custom cut. I hire someone to come to my ranch and cut,split and stack firewood. when seasoned,I haulit to my house on a trailer ,cover the trailer with a tarp and burn it.(the firewood not the trailer) . I tell whoever I hire ,how I want the wood cut.I would call that custom cutting.

I would think the OP has called his supplier by now, and will probably specify how long it should be from here on out


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 16, 2011)

Just to throw another stick on the fire...

Custom cut _and_ seasoned? Of course, just like I mentioned way early in the thread.

"If you want a custom lentght, order it in advance and be prepared to pay extra'. "in advance" meaning time enough for the producer to cut and season it, e.g. early in the spring for delivery in the fall at least.

Harry K


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 16, 2011)

turnkey4099 said:


> Just to throw another stick on the fire...
> 
> Custom cut _and_ seasoned? Of course, just like I mentioned way early in the thread.
> 
> ...



I understand the pay in advance, but why extra?Longer pieces is less work.I try to tell people all the time the best time to get there wood is inthe spring.Then they know it will be seasoned.I still have about a cord left from year before last, though.I try to stay well ahead.When I sell seasoned wood, it is seasoned.


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## v8titan (Dec 16, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Seriously? SIX FRIGGIN' PAGES!
> Have you called the guy yet?
> 
> Cutting firewood to the same length isn't difficult or time consuming. It doesn't require tape measures, markers, gauges, strings, sticks, or any such. Simply use the bar attached to the saw (or the bar and saw if using a short bar), place some marks on it using automotive touch-up paint if you have to. Giving the saw a quarter-turn, and making a visual reference (such as a break in the bark, a bit of moss, even a stray saw chip) as you position yourself for the next cut adds zero time to the job.



I'm on the same page with you again WS. I typically cut all my splits to 20". I Have a side loading Jotul Oslo and 20's are perfect. I can take a 22 but it starts to get a bit tight. Anyway, using my 034 with the 20" bar it's simple to lay the bar on the round....pic a landmark....raise the bar and cut away. I would guess the tolerance on the rounds is +- 1.00". Been doing it like this for years.

I will say that I did one time take some yellow spray marking paint with a 25 ft tape and hash off 20's on a 35 foot log. I just stepped up with the saw a didn't stop till the beast was all bucked up. Those rounds were within a 1/2 in of nominal.


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## kmcinms (Dec 17, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Seriously? SIX FRIGGIN' PAGES!
> Have you called the guy yet?
> 
> Cutting firewood to the same length isn't difficult or time consuming. It doesn't require tape measures, markers, gauges, strings, sticks, or any such. Simply use the bar attached to the saw (or the bar and saw if using a short bar), place some marks on it using automotive touch-up paint if you have to. Giving the saw a quarter-turn, and making a visual reference (such as a break in the bark, a bit of moss, even a stray saw chip) as you position yourself for the next cut adds zero time to the job.



Yup, pretty stacks of wood. Picture perfect, almost looks shopped. 
That's how I cut my wood, with the bar only for 16", bar and mounting pad for 18" and somewhere near the R on the clutch cover for 20". All just eyeballed and it's pretty dern close :smile2:


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 18, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> I understand the pay in advance, but why extra?Longer pieces is less work.I try to tell people all the time the best time to get there wood is inthe spring.Then they know it will be seasoned.I still have about a cord left from year before last, though.I try to stay well ahead.When I sell seasoned wood, it is seasoned.



Extra because it requires a change in sellers standard operation, has to have an an extra stack of odd size taking up space in his yard while seasoning...

Harry K


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## Chainsaw_Maniac (Dec 18, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Seriously? SIX FRIGGIN' PAGES!
> Have you called the guy yet?
> 
> Cutting firewood to the same length isn't difficult or time consuming. It doesn't require tape measures, markers, gauges, strings, sticks, or any such. Simply use the bar attached to the saw (or the bar and saw if using a short bar), place some marks on it using automotive touch-up paint if you have to. Giving the saw a quarter-turn, and making a visual reference (such as a break in the bark, a bit of moss, even a stray saw chip) as you position yourself for the next cut adds zero time to the job.



This is impressive. You've almost turned it into an art!

For those of us cutting wood for profit, we don't have time to turn the saw a quarter turn. I've got to keep the blocks coming! The footwork required would also be pretty awkward.

I am very good at eyeballing though.


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## apattie (Dec 18, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Seriously? SIX FRIGGIN' PAGES!
> Have you called the guy yet?
> 
> Cutting firewood to the same length isn't difficult or time consuming. It doesn't require tape measures, markers, gauges, strings, sticks, or any such. Simply use the bar attached to the saw (or the bar and saw if using a short bar), place some marks on it using automotive touch-up paint if you have to. Giving the saw a quarter-turn, and making a visual reference (such as a break in the bark, a bit of moss, even a stray saw chip) as you position yourself for the next cut adds zero time to the job.



Now that's a great idea. How stupid do I feel after cutting wood for over 40 years not to have thought of that. Thanks,
going to go outside when it gets light and mark my saws.


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## Whitespider (Dec 18, 2011)

Chainsaw_Maniac said:


> *For those of us cutting wood for profit, we don't have time to turn the saw a quarter turn. I've got to keep the blocks coming! The footwork required would also be pretty awkward.*



What? What "time"? What awkward "footwork"?
I turn the saw as I position myself for the next cut... and giving the saw a little 1/4 spin and eyeballing my spot takes less time than the side-step for the next cut... I actually do it as I raise the saw for the next cut. After a bit of practice it becomes automatic... I don't even think about it anymore.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 18, 2011)

turnkey4099 said:


> Extra because it requires a change in sellers standard operation, has to have an an extra stack of odd size taking up space in his yard while seasoning...
> 
> Harry K



Really Harry?The only change would be less work for longer wood.Less cuts,fewer blocks to split etc.And as far as space, we're talking maybe a 4'x8' footprint.I mean if you took a deposit or was even pre-paid, maybe you could even work it out where they picked it up or you delivered it as soon as it was split.
The only wood I charge extra for is the smaller stuff, the 14" stovewood.I sell 2/3 a cord per season.Pretty much guaranteed, and if I don't sell it I can burn it myself.
I'm a small operation,Harry, with lots of local competition.I have to keep the customers I have and be willing to accomodate as much as possible.It really is no big deal.I consider it good business.
Remember when all you could get from Ford was a black car?Well, what if it was still that way?Whomever is willing to give the customers what he wants, within reason of course, is the one who will keep his customers and maybe even get some more.
Oh and Harry,I hope you have a very merry Christmas and a wonderful new year!


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## colin.p (Dec 18, 2011)

*Shameless Plug*

Let's see if we can get this to 8 pages. BTW, this is just a shameless plug to get my post count up.:msp_rolleyes:


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## J.W Younger (Dec 18, 2011)

Chainsaw_Maniac said:


> This is impressive. You've almost turned it into an art!
> 
> For those of us cutting wood for profit, we don't have time to turn the saw a quarter turn. I've got to keep the blocks coming! The footwork required would also be pretty awkward.
> 
> I am very good at eyeballing though.


Actually using the saw is the most efficient way I've found and when you're trying to cut long as possible and still fit in the splitter eyeballin will cost you extra work. What works for one person may be not for the next.


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## cantoo (Dec 18, 2011)

In keeping with Colin's line of thinking, has there been any updates on what is happening with the wood? Any chance the discussion will make the national headlines or do you think it will stay here in the front lines on arboristsite.com? We need an update on the length of your wood!!!!


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## mga (Dec 18, 2011)

cantoo said:


> In keeping with Colin's line of thinking, has there been any updates on what is happening with the wood? Any chance the discussion will make the national headlines or do you think it will stay here in the front lines on arboristsite.com? We need an update on the length of your wood!!!!


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## kmcinms (Dec 18, 2011)

mga said:


>



You should channel all that energy...cutting wood!! The proper length, mind you...:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Whitespider (Dec 18, 2011)

mga said:


>



Ya just gotta' love a man with a sense of humor!


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## sbowman871 (Dec 18, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Ya just gotta' love a man with a sense of humor!



Page 8 yet?


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## REJ2 (Dec 18, 2011)

Are we there yet?

not yet


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## 4seasons (Dec 18, 2011)

I have always cut bar length firewood. When I cut for my grandfather's furnace I used a Poulan with a 16 in bar so the wood was 15-17 in logs. Now I cut for my stove with a Dolmar wearing a 20 in bar so my wood is 19-21 in. My stove takes up to 24 so it works great for me. But I do have the odd stack of cut offs from the end of logs. Last time I sold some wood the first thing I ask the guy was how long he could burn. When he said he could burn up to 20 I measured the side board on the truck and knew that anything longer than the bed was deep wouldn't work. Surely other sellers out there care about making the customer happy too.


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 18, 2011)

cantoo said:


> In keeping with Colin's line of thinking, has there been any updates on what is happening with the wood? Any chance the discussion will make the national headlines or do you think it will stay here in the front lines on arboristsite.com? We need an update on the length of your wood!!!!



As long as you don't ask my wife! She won't lie for me.

Harry K


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## mga (Dec 18, 2011)

sbowman871 said:


> Page 8 yet?



heh...these topics usually go for at least 10 or 12 pages.


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## jrider (Dec 18, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Seriously? SIX FRIGGIN' PAGES!
> Have you called the guy yet?
> 
> Cutting firewood to the same length isn't difficult or time consuming. It doesn't require tape measures, markers, gauges, strings, sticks, or any such. Simply use the bar attached to the saw (or the bar and saw if using a short bar), place some marks on it using automotive touch-up paint if you have to. Giving the saw a quarter-turn, and making a visual reference (such as a break in the bark, a bit of moss, even a stray saw chip) as you position yourself for the next cut adds zero time to the job.



I must say, those are some pretty piles of wood but I can't figure out why a guy who talks about spending zero time on making sure all cuts are the same but then takes all that time to make those piles look so perfect.


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## Whitespider (Dec 18, 2011)

jrider said:


> *...I can't figure out why a guy who talks about spending zero time on making sure all cuts are the same but then takes all that time to make those piles look so perfect.*



Well, I've heard, or read, that comment before when I've posted that pic in other threads.
Seriously, it doesn't take "_all that_ [much] _time to make those piles look so perfect_". I can stack like that just as fast as you can hand me the splits, or as fast has I can grab them from the trailer. Probably helps some that they're all the same length... but still, I can stack pretty darn fast. Really it shouldn't take any longer to stack neatly than it does to stack sloppy... and if you do it neatly, you only need to do it once. I just set one atop of the next, keeping the front edge flush as I go... don't take no time at all.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 18, 2011)

Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold. 

Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown. 

Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But Ash wet or Ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by. 

Nothing to do with the length of wood, but I liked it.


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## sbowman871 (Dec 18, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> Beechwood fires are bright and clear
> If the logs are kept a year,
> Chestnut's only good they say,
> If for logs 'tis laid away.
> ...



Very nice. I like that


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## stihlrookie (Dec 19, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Well, I've heard, or read, that comment before when I've posted that pic in other threads.
> Seriously, it doesn't take "_all that_ [much] _time to make those piles look so perfect_". I can stack like that just as fast as you can hand me the splits, or as fast has I can grab them from the trailer. *Probably helps some that they're all the same length*... but still, I can stack pretty darn fast. Really it shouldn't take any longer to stack neatly than it does to stack sloppy... and if you do it neatly, you only need to do it once. I just set one atop of the next, keeping the front edge flush as I go... don't take no time at all.



No probablies about it. Cutting firewood to a fairly precise dimension will make all aspects of handling easier. 

Whitespider, 
It certainly appears that you and I and very few others understand the concept of 1/4 turning the saw and using it to measure each cut. Honestly this method is much faster than breaking out my eyecrometer and eyeballing each cut for me. I have tried eyeballing and I guess I haven't practiced enough to be as precise as I feel I need to be. When I sell firewood I am charging a premium price and as such my product should be premium, ie. all pieces cut to a consistent length, splits all roughly the same size, heck, I even knock off as much bark as I can. I won't get into dryness or seasoning as that is a whole other subject.

As far as cutting longer firewood, such as 24", it is not easier IMO. Yes there are fewer cuts, fewer pieces and subsequently less pieces to split, but the extra length adds difficulty in splitting and handling(more weight per piece). As I have stated previously, I am geared towards 16", it is much easier to handle, easier splitting and my cord measurements are based off 16" lengths. 3, 4'x8' rows of 16" firewood is 1 cord(128 cubic feet).


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 19, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Well, I've heard, or read, that comment before when I've posted that pic in other threads.
> Seriously, it doesn't take "_all that_ [much] _time to make those piles look so perfect_". I can stack like that just as fast as you can hand me the splits, or as fast has I can grab them from the trailer. Probably helps some that they're all the same length... but still, I can stack pretty darn fast. Really it shouldn't take any longer to stack neatly than it does to stack sloppy... and if you do it neatly, you only need to do it once. I just set one atop of the next, keeping the front edge flush as I go... don't take no time at all.



I was wondering about that. Making an assumption here but from your "front side" the back side would be uneven/ragged?

Harry K


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## mga (Dec 19, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> Beechwood fires are bright and clear
> If the logs are kept a year,
> Chestnut's only good they say,
> If for logs 'tis laid away.
> ...



ok, man, very nice, but....who is the author?


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## mga (Dec 19, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Well, I've heard, or read, that comment before when I've posted that pic in other threads.
> Seriously, it doesn't take "_all that_ [much] _time to make those piles look so perfect_". I can stack like that just as fast as you can hand me the splits, or as fast has I can grab them from the trailer. Probably helps some that they're all the same length... but still, I can stack pretty darn fast. Really it shouldn't take any longer to stack neatly than it does to stack sloppy... and if you do it neatly, you only need to do it once. I just set one atop of the next, keeping the front edge flush as I go... don't take no time at all.



no need to explain to any one how or why.

just say you have a secret way of doing it and you aren't going to say what it is.

(you'll drive them nuts)


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 19, 2011)

mga said:


> ok, man, very nice, but....who is the author?



I apologize, Celia Congreve, circa 1930.Thanks for catching that, I should have included it in the post.


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## Whitespider (Dec 19, 2011)

turnkey4099 said:


> *I was wondering about that. Making an assumption here but from your "front side" the back side would be uneven/ragged?*



Probably not as "_uneven/ragged_" as you're thinking Harry... The splits are pretty darn close to the same length, except for an occasional ooops.
Here's a pic showing the back-side of some of the stacks.


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## Whitespider (Dec 19, 2011)

And here's another stack, in a different section of the yard.
This stuff was pretty much pre-seasoned so I put the stacks closer together, and closer to the house.
Still all the same length.


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 19, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Probably not as "_uneven/ragged_" as you're thinking Harry... The splits are pretty darn close to the same length, except for an occasional ooops.
> Here's a pic showing the back-side of some of the stacks.



Nice! That shows a lot more attention to cutting to length that I do for sure. And I even use a measuring stick or the cut-off guide mounted on the bar. Of course my trees, black locust currently, willow in the past rarely had nice straight logs or limbs to work from. No excuse though.

Tried to rep you but can't.

Harry K


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 19, 2011)

View attachment 212277
Mine don't look quite as neat, guess I need more practice.


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## banshee67 (Dec 19, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> Mine don't look quite as neat, guess I need more practice.



or a case of OCD:eek2:


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 19, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> or a case of OCD:eek2:


Why?


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## banshee67 (Dec 19, 2011)

redheadwoodshed said:


> Why?



i was implying you would need a case of OCD in order for your stacks to come out as neat as the other guys


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 19, 2011)

The best way to get what you want when ordering firewood is to ask specific questions of the seller. Length, species, seasoning time, delivery costs, stacked or dumped, etc. 

A high quality seller is going to have all those answers for you ( plus some more you probably didn't think of ) and usually asks you first. It's usually easy to weed out the "schmuck with a truck" this way. It may help to have those questions in front of you so you don't forget to ask once the call starts. As a seller, I usually have a list of things to ask the buyer in the same way.

So, it's a little bit your fault for not being specific ( live n learn ) but the seller didn't make much of an effort either. In my experience, the best sellers are usually ones that do firewood as their primary business or as a serious hobby, not the ones who have to "get rid of" unwanted wood as a sideline of their primary business ( land clearers, tree services ). There are exceptions to both of course.

The good ones are out there, and the more you know yourself ( by spending _endless_ hours on AS.... ) the fewer bad apples you'll get.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 19, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> i was implying you would need a case of OCD in order for your stacks to come out as neat as the other guys



O.K. it's late for me, took me a minute to comprehend OCD.I just wanted to show off my long wood anyway.


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