# Driptorch fuel mix.



## kevinj

Thanks to all you firefighters out there for all that you do...

What is the best fuel mix that you recommend for a drip torch ??? 

:monkey:


----------



## BC_Logger

(4) Parts Diesel to (1) Part Gasoline


----------



## BC_Logger

also be very careful with a drip torch!.

I would recommend a propane tiger torch over a drip torch if possible


----------



## RPM

BC_Logger said:


> (4) Parts Diesel to (1) Part Gasoline



+1 ... on the mix and ++1 on the tiger torch


----------



## Roy M

B.C. Forest Service uses a mixture of diesel and powdered Surefire from Chemonics Industries in Kamloops. I have no idea what the Surefire is made of. The problem was that mixed too thin it would not light, too thick it clogged the nozzle. They were using sticks or canoe paddles to stir the mix and splinters caused problems too.
A friend of mine developed an optimum mix of Surefire, methanol, and an ingredient he would not divulge in a one gallon jug. He patented it as Petrogel. This was mixed with with 10 gallons of diesel. They went from a 40% ignition rate to 97%, the forestry people went nuts. 
Some of you don't like drip torches but they were a huge improvement. Previous to this, naptha balls were dropped from a tube mounted to the side of the helicopter. Frequently the balls would ignite in the tube scaring the bejabbers out of the pilot.


----------



## smokechase II

*Mix*

The official mix is anywhere between 3:1 and 5:1. Parts diesel to parts Gas.

So the 4:1 answer above works well.
(yes there have been instances of 1:3 and wow!)

===========

One advantage to slash fuel (drip torch mix) is that you can get rid of older gas and questionable containers of unknowns.

==========

Back in the 70's I was a grunt on a study where several ignition methods we checked out. All operators were traded back and forth between ignition tools and had to keep track of piles ignited each day.

The drip torch won.

It wasn't the best every day, it was the best overall.

If you have a serious fire jones this is a three pitcher discussion.

============

I think the drip torch is the safest if you can follow rules. (I have a 4 decade experience background.)

Stick to the correct mix and don't burn if you spill on yourself. Tough rules like don't smoke when refueling.


----------



## slowp

I never mixed it, just used it. It was a way to get rid of old fuel--like helicopter fuel. We had a few cases of scorched eyebrows when somebody mixed too much of that stuff with the diesel. But that was it. Drip torches are good--easy to carry, not many parts, and tough.


----------



## jrizman

well, propane isnt ideal if your broadcast burning as im sure youll know, however, it is the preferred method for piles (IMO).

I make, in a 5gal container, 3.5:1.5, reddye:gas


----------



## 2dogs

Yep, 4:1, 3:1 if it's cold and foggy. Nowadays, like yesterday's job, I use a fuel bottle drip torch. I have heard this called a hot shot torch too. With this torch I use saw mix with a glug of bar oil added. That is for a 33oz MSR bottle. I have more brush to burn this Sunday. I will add the leaf blower to the mix so stand back.


----------



## smokechase II

*preferred???*

"well, propane isnt ideal if your broadcast burning as im sure youll know, however, it is the preferred method for piles (IMO)."

=============

Depends on the pile.
How its made and how dry things are.

If things are dryer then propane can be the cats meow.

=============

In that study back in the seventies on several national forests they found that the drip torch was like a pocket on a shirt filled with sliced bread.
Meow to boot. The drip torch got the most done when burning conditions were averaged.

==========

However; the drip torch does not go *Pllooooocccchhhhh*.


----------



## RPM

smokechase II said:


> "well, propane isnt ideal if your broadcast burning as im sure youll know, however, it is the preferred method for piles (IMO)."
> 
> =============
> 
> Depends on the pile.
> How its made and how dry things are.
> 
> If things are dryer then propane can be the cats meow.
> 
> =============
> 
> In that study back in the seventies on several national forests they found that the drip torch was like a pocket on a shirt filled with sliced bread.
> Meow to boot. The drip torch got the most done when burning conditions were averaged.
> 
> ==========
> 
> However; the drip torch does not go *Pllooooocccchhhhh*.



We've been logging in some nasty interior cedar / hemlock stands the last while...some real nasty junk. Big wet piles full of dirt and sh*t, when you can drive up to them the tiger torch is the way to go...turn it on and stand back for 10 minutes. That blue cone dries a nice little pocket and away she goes. I like drip torches and find that they work for about 75% of the piles that we do - most are in the blocks and not on landings so lugging a 20lb bottle around isn't realistic. 

Its another tool in the pyros arsenal - just like tires and JetB ...

And broadcast burning....whats that? We haven't lite a block up full scale since the early 90's....too much liability (ie: over achievment - although it was ok when the forest service let them go...). Its all mechanical site prep and piling for us now.


----------



## smokechase II

*Time limit*

"...........*turn it on and stand back for 10 minutes*........."

============

On the district I just retired from last fall they had over 16,000 hand piles and just a hundred or so landing piles.

Spending a minute (on average) to lite a hand pile is too much.

The economics of 10+ minutes on a landing pile is fine. Bulk (size matters) discount.

However, we couldn't waste that amount of time on all those hand piles.


----------



## Gologit

Anybody use a mixture of liquid dish soap and gasoline for burning piles?


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> Anybody use a mixture of liquid dish soap and gasoline for burning piles?



I love the smell of a drip torch in the morning.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Anybody use a mixture of liquid dish soap and gasoline for burning piles?



I thought powdered Tide was used? We had people mixing something, along with packets to make it into a more politically correct named stuff than Napalm. The lowest people in the caste system mixed it because that was a very nasty job. Fumes and all. I had enough seniority to escape that duty. They baggied it up and we packed it out to get fires going in piles--Eastern WA dry.

Then, I came over here, and the fuels guy would pack the same stuff, only not as liquid, in 5 gallon buckets, and hand pack that stuff into a green cull deck/landing pile. It was the middle of winter and wet. He'd light that off, pour his pickup tank of diesel on it, and come back the next day to repeat. He was determined to get those piles burned. Probably liked getting out of the office too. He told me, "You can burn anything if you have enough fuel."
 
We had a huge budget then, we sold a lot of good timber.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I thought powdered Tide was used? We had people mixing something, along with packets to make it into a more politically correct named stuff than Napalm. The lowest people in the caste system mixed it because that was a very nasty job. Fumes and all. I had enough seniority to escape that duty. They baggied it up and we packed it out to get fires going in piles--Eastern WA dry.



I've used dry soap but liquid seems to work better. The soap is just a surfactant so I imagine you could tailor it to suit your individual needs. We used to use liquid Joy and Av Gas to burn out the inside of Parathion drums. Sometimes we'd have contests to see who could get the most chain explosions and distance on the empty drums....aaahhhh the good old days. Anybody know what the statute of limitations is on stuff like that?


----------



## slowp

And the *BAD LOGGERS *still throw the paint cans in the piles, bury them, so there's usually a startling boom while the pile burns, if it burns. 

But I haven't heard of the bomb squad having to come in for a forgotten case of explosives lately. Not much road building going on these days.


----------



## RPM

smokechase II said:


> "...........*turn it on and stand back for 10 minutes*........."
> 
> ============
> 
> On the district I just retired from last fall they had over 16,000 hand piles and just a hundred or so landing piles.
> 
> Spending a minute (on average) to lite a hand pile is too much.
> 
> The economics of 10+ minutes on a landing pile is fine. Bulk (size matters) discount.
> 
> However, we couldn't waste that amount of time on all those hand piles.



Scale matters obviously and my employeer doesn't pay me to stand around ....16,000 hand piles - no - maybe a 1/5th of that (machined piled)....most by drip torch....difficult landing piles ...where you stuff the torch in ...a dozen.


----------



## slowp

I have learned this method, and use it on my property. It should only be done in the winter. When we require handpiling, the contract also requires covering with plastic. Plastic is expensive. One guy starts a campfire going, then piles on top of that and burns *while* piling. It works pretty good, I've done it in an all day downpour. He doesn't have to cover the piles if he burns while going along. No, he doesn't set a speed record, but he does move along at a pretty good pace.


----------



## jrizman

RPM said:


> And broadcast burning....whats that? We haven't lite a block up full scale since the early 90's....too much liability (ie: over achievment - although it was ok when the forest service let them go...). Its all mechanical site prep and piling for us now.



there are some places that use broadcast units for site prep, as i have worked on sites in no. Idaho (mainly). however, it has been for industry in my experience. flaming helitorches rule

i like the propane for piles, wet, dry, dirty, fresh, whatever. however, i cant say that its always ideal, i have also carried a drip torch in one hand and propane in the other  I like it mainly cause i get a good deal on propane! I should have stated that its all dependent on site conditions and pile characteristics.


----------



## RPM

jrizman said:


> there are some places that use broadcast units for site prep, as i have worked on sites in no. Idaho (mainly). however, it has been for industry in my experience. flaming helitorches rule
> 
> i like the propane for piles, wet, dry, dirty, fresh, whatever. however, i cant say that its always ideal, i have also carried a drip torch in one hand and propane in the other  I like it mainly cause i get a good deal on propane! I should have stated that its all dependent on site conditions and pile characteristics.



I was being sarcastic...we used to burn everything for site prep (industry) and if something got away (ie the over achievement) and went up the hillside through standing timber then the FS would usually step in and cover the cost. At some point they removed that clause from the regs and forest companies were on the hook 100% if a fire took off. FS in BC likes aircraft for fire fighting so the $$ add up pretty quick. So now everything is mechanically site preped / piled. We don't burn everything - half to leave some for the critters...any landing piles / road side processing piles all get burned. And we don't burn until the first snow or good solid week of rain...Oct 15 - Nov 15th is when usually get going...


----------



## jrizman

i agree that its much less common that it used to be.

it always seems to get away into the FS ground, gee, I wonder why that is, might have something to do with all the dead and down, but what do i know...

funny, i see more deer and elk using the burned units than i ever thought. i know of hunters who keep track of what units are burned to visit during the fall.


----------



## 2dogs

Cody and I did some brush pile burning today. I could not get these piles going last Thursday after a 4"+ rainstorm.

Cody with the fuel bottle drip torch. A couple ounces of bar oil and then fill up with saw mix.






Cody waking up the pile with a blower. It works great but be ready to protect your nose from the heat.


----------



## hammerlogging

Really nice 2dogs, its nice to see your work, and to see how you get to work with your son. If only you'd wear caulks 24/7 like manly loggers.....


----------



## 2dogs

hammerlogging said:


> Really nice 2dogs, its nice to see your work, and to see how you get to work with your son. If only you'd wear caulks 24/7 like manly loggers.....



LOL. I guess I'm a sissy. Normally when I am falling and bucking I go barefoot. I let my toenails get really long for grip.


----------



## smokechase II

*Swamper*

*"I have learned this method, and use it on my property. It should only be done in the winter. When we require handpiling, the contract also requires covering with plastic. Plastic is expensive. One guy starts a campfire going, then piles on top of that and burns while piling. It works pretty good, I've done it in an all day downpour. He doesn't have to cover the piles if he burns while going along. No, he doesn't set a speed record, but he does move along at a pretty good pace."*

==========

We call that swamper burning.

It has several advantages:
1) You can burn a lot of slash in a controlled manner with little impact. Just feed the fire sensibly and move back and forth between piles to limit overachievement.
2) It cleans up stuff now before anyone has a chance to complain. If you sense a distaste for public input by a retiree, you would be correct.
3) You don't have to make the pile as perfect as you would if it was being burned a few months later. Just make the start decent, get it lit then feed with the sticks all crossed and screwy. It's OK.
4) Nice way to make a miserable fall/winter day fun. Fire warms the soul.
5) Dogs and brauts for lunch.


----------



## Squad_Boss

*Slash fuel*

I understand this is an old thread. Ive been fighting forest fires for over 10 years and the same with prescribed fire. We have always used 3 parts diesel to 1 part gas. The state and federal government use offroad non taxed diesel so its a different color. 4 to 1 seems a little cold to me. Ive tried, I know. Anything less than 3 to 1 and you'll be to hot and the torch will start spitting fuel out in spurts and will burn up the wick faster. Just remember (I know this is obvious but have to say it) Gas is the main ingredient for ignition, Diesel makes it less volatile and keeps the flame burning longer. 

You might get buy with 3.5 to 1 if your using non ethonal gasoline.


----------



## 2dogs

Squad_Boss said:


> I understand this is an old thread. Ive been fighting forest fires for over 10 years and the same with prescribed fire. We have always used 3 parts diesel to 1 part gas. The state and federal government use offroad non taxed diesel so its a different color. 4 to 1 seems a little cold to me. Ive tried, I know. Anything less than 3 to 1 and you'll be to hot and the torch will start spitting fuel out in spurts and will burn up the wick faster. Just remember (I know this is obvious but have to say it) Gas is the main ingredient for ignition, Diesel makes it less volatile and keeps the flame burning longer.
> 
> You might get buy with 3.5 to 1 if your using non ethonal gasoline.



I can't argue that.


----------



## madhatte

I always understood it to be the reverse: Diesel is the burny bit, gasoline is the accelerant that gets it started. That said, I use and advocate a 4:1 mixture and the 80 acres we RX burned yesterday agree.


----------



## northmanlogging

you know I found a couple drip torches for sale a few months back... wonder if there still there... 


old diesel and older tires always worked in the past, kick it of with a flaming arrow... fond memories...


----------



## slowp

I have one with flowers and my name on it. It needs a wick and I don't know if it works. It was a gift.


----------



## c5rulz

I helped on some prescribed burns of prarie grasses this Spring. The fuel wasn't measured but poured from 5 gallon cans of diesel and gas into the torches. Old gas was used for the mix if any was available. 

3:1 was goal. Some got a little lean on the gas and didn't work near as well.

A drip torch in the hands of a pyro like me, is about as much fun you can have with your clothes on.

On a serious note, the guy running the operation was extremely professional and tremendous amount of prep work was done to the site and watching weather conditions including taking wet bulb humidity readings throughout the day and putting out wind flags. All workers had radios, back pack sprayers, an ATV with pumper.


----------



## Jay Robyn

Hi guys. A returning old member here, but I can't find the right e-mail for my old account....

Resurrecting this old thread because even after reviewing most of the related "drip torch fuel" threads, I'm not seeing what I'm looking for.

I ran across an old drip torch on a local auction recently, but got outbid, so dear wife bought me a brand new Sure Seal for Christmas - http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/p...20Sure-Seal%99%20Double-Bottom%20Drip%20Torch

Everything I've ever read about drip torches advocates a diesel/gasoline mix somewhere around 3:1 to 5:1. Or various other formulas with at least SOME gasoline. To my surprise, Sure Seal explicitly warns against using ANY gasoline! They recommend a mix of #1 diesel and kerosene. I've always thought that #1 diesel and kerosene were essentially identical, plus, I don't know where one could even purchase #1 diesel.

So, what to use? Diesel/gasoline sure seems to be the VERY tried and proven formula.

P.S. - Just tried the tech support line at Forestry Suppliers - You did NOT hear this from them or from me, but the #1/kero recipe is _published_ due to liability concerns. The historically used and proven recipes of #2/gasoline are what to use. I was quite surprised that their tech support was so forthcoming and knowledgeable! Good on them!


----------



## madhatte

A hot mix is definitely dangerous... but just try to get raw diesel to burn predictably, I dare ya. You have to have that accelerant in there to make the fire behavior useful.


----------



## northmanlogging

Jay Robyn said:


> Hi guys. A returning old member here, but I can't find the right e-mail for my old account....
> 
> Resurrecting this old thread because even after reviewing most of the related "drip torch fuel" threads, I'm not seeing what I'm looking for.
> 
> I ran across an old drip torch on a local auction recently, but got outbid, so dear wife bought me a brand new Sure Seal for Christmas - http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/p...20Sure-Seal%99%20Double-Bottom%20Drip%20Torch
> 
> Everything I've ever read about drip torches advocates a diesel/gasoline mix somewhere around 3:1 to 5:1. Or various other formulas with at least SOME gasoline. To my surprise, Sure Seal explicitly warns against using ANY gasoline! They recommend a mix of #1 diesel and kerosene. I've always thought that #1 diesel and kerosene were essentially identical, plus, I don't know where one could even purchase #1 diesel.
> 
> So, what to use? Diesel/gasoline sure seems to be the VERY tried and proven formula.
> 
> P.S. - Just tried the tech support line at Forestry Suppliers - You did NOT hear this from them or from me, but the #1/kero recipe is _published_ due to liability concerns. The historically used and proven recipes of #2/gasoline are what to use. I was quite surprised that their tech support was so forthcoming and knowledgeable! Good on them!



You might be able to find #1 in areas of much colder climates, but yer right its not much different then Kerosene, jet fuel is right in there too.


----------



## c5rulz

Others aren't so concerned about using some gas.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driptorch

http://articles.extension.org/pages/68083/fuel-mixtures-for-drip-torches


----------



## madhatte

Won't see me mixing that hot.


----------



## ironman_gq

https://www.preppergunshop.com/flamethrowers

Saw this and remembered you pyros over here, this would be good for getting piles going.


----------



## madhatte

Well, we_ do_ have one of this in our cache:


----------



## TN woodcutter

Son of a gun, Madhatte. Now I'm sure we need one at my volunteer department. I'm sure we'd use it, someday, maybe? LOL


----------



## madhatte

Oh, everybody needs one, of course.


----------

