# The thread was legitimate



## xander9727 (Dec 28, 2002)

*What happened to the Pee-pee tree thread?*

Did this thread take a real off color twist or did someone "just not like it"? As far as I read it was much less offensive than an episode of Ally "eat a frigin' sandwich" McBeal. Let us know what the great OZ thinks on this.


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 28, 2002)

JPS still thinks he can delete or edit virtually any post at will. I remember the first time Darin deleted a post, and he debated about doing it for 3 days first (The old 'Beeboo' thread). But I don't think JPS feels right unless he deletes or edits at least 5 posts per week.  

Now we not only have to be Politically Correct, but we also can only discuss issues JPS finds interesting or relevent.


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## Crofter (Dec 28, 2002)

I am a little sensitive when it comes to censorship too, but I think there are more REAL issues to deal with. Snivelling about the lack of professionalism in the industry is what it would look like to someone viewing the site. I think you were being jerked around and filling someones need for attention. 

Frank


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 28, 2002)

Some-body has to do it; and we all that have been here a while know why! i think that wee (oops!) should be glad that he steps up to the plate, where m-any couldn't/wouldn't (self included). Though i did hear that he shows prejudice if everything is spelt write in a post, perhaps that was the reason!

Personally i could see where that particular thread might be distasteful!!

There is always thee sponsor(s) to consider, what they want to be permanently associated with, and represented by here; especially for post infancy longevity in this place. So really he is doing many factions a favor in many ways, by maintaining things and expectations at a certain level!

My own pen has has groan to be silent for stretches of a time, and depths; do to my own person-all disenchant-meant from lack of such caring around here over time. It is my personal beleif that some gave up who's contributions wee could use, so we all have lost much more than a pee thread!

IMH,AO this day.

-KC


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 28, 2002)

Good point, Ken. And in this particular case I agree with you. But I still think he's a little heavy handed with the 'edit' and 'delete' buttons. I noticed a distinct drop in participation here since he started over- editing threads.


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## Joe (Dec 28, 2002)

The personalities and contents of this board are changing due to growth. People here have already discussed a lot of different topics. A lot of fundamental questions have been covered. It could help to reread some of those threads you guys wrote and see if you can move the contents to another level. It's not JPS or the "*other*" moderators being overzealous
with the edit button; this site is a business venture. Quite frankly, I think this thread needs deleted too. But, who am I to have any say?

Joe


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## Wulkowicz (Dec 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Joe _
> *The personalities and contents of this board are changing due to growth. People here have already discussed a lot of different topics. A lot of fundamental questions have been covered. It could help to reread some of those threads you guys wrote and see if you can move the contents to another level. It's not JPS or the "other" moderators being overzealous
> with the edit button; this site is a business venture. Quite frankly, I think this thread needs deleted too. But, who am I to have any say?
> 
> Joe *



I left the ISA forums because of censorship a few years ago. As in most censoring, it was heavy-handed and marginally incompetent. Many good innocent posts went on into oblivion because someone thought they had the power to think and write better than the rest of us.

Later, the ISA turned to secret censors. chosen or volunteered, I don't know, but perhaps he ISAers thought privatizing the tasks were better for them in escaping the heat.

I suspect this thread is about to pop too.

I had planned to write and ask, wasn't peeing out a tree, also a practical way to discipline grunts?

Bob Wulkowicz

<HR>


That's an interesting question. In order to have anything to say, don't we have to say something first? 

But if they snip it off, so it's as if we never had anything said, then where are we to ever have any say?

How about:

PRIVATE FORUM 

DO NOT READ


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 28, 2002)

This place is passing from it's infancy; where and to what depth doesn't just depend on the moderator. i hope the posts that are deleted are saved to an area to be reviewed to form consistent standards, or examples of what doesn't go.

Joe, i too seek a deeper view of some of the same materials, seeking to draw from myself and others that next better level of understanding that grants access to power and grace. i have come to think of this as the place, and these the people for that.

Among all else too, but refreshingly so as i see you specific 2 stepping from amidst the mist.

Perhaps the flow of this is naturally in time as we close the year with these observations, and draw bead on a new, fresh one!

Brian, you don't have to feel tooo bad about agreeing with me, i even do it myself sometimes!! Of course, having a reputation to maintain, i won't tell anyone if you don't!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 28, 2002)

Enough people complaind so i killed it. Actualy if I upheld the standards that Darin set I would be tossing a lot more stuff out.

My initial responce was that it is not the worst that has come across the site and to keep i there, but after the seventh or eighth request for removal, all touching on the perception non proffesionals may have on our industry, I deleted it. 

No Ken, they just get killed. IM(notso)HO anything I have deleted is not worth the disk space to save.

If you want to talk about bodily functions, or make off colored ethnic statements, then go to the chat room.

The terms of use state that we the site reserves the right to decide what is acceptable discourse.

As I have said before, Darin has given me discresion, if you have any complaints take them to him. He has not said anything to me yet.

so as the old Chinese saying goes;
Kwee cho b'chen


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## Joe (Dec 28, 2002)

:Eye::Eye:

Don't look at me! I didn't say anything! After reading the initial post and 1 or 2 replies, I decided not to bother reading it again. Honestly, Don't get  with me about it. I didn't bother the moderators. I can ignore contents like discussing peeing out of trees. I don't care how you guys appear to others, seriously.


Joe

I will never claim to be a writer of any type, it'll either show, or it will not show.


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## Wulkowicz (Dec 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *
> 
> Enough people complaind so i killed it.
> ...




Didn't WalMart pull a jigsaw puzzle off its shelves just after 9/11 because one person complained it showed the WTC on its cover?

What was that complaint? Body functions? Disrespect? An inability to understand that before 9/11, there was 9/10, and 9/9, and so back?

We have 7 or 8 people concerned about the"non-professional's" perceptions of us. What does that mean? That they don't whizz?

And why should the chat room provide any moral shelter? Can't the "non-professionals" go there as easily as we? And, boom, there go their perceptions again!

<hr>

Having the power of censorship is a big responsibility. Confined to pees and poops, it stays adolescent and younger; big deal. 

But that same power always seems to get expanded to other issues, and our indvidual basic prejudices and perspectives creep in.

Keeping that power means watching our own predispositions and trying to keep them separate from the dialogues. Starting down a road of deciding what matters and what is of value according to one single decision-maker is a very slippery slope. It doesn't matter if 50 people complained, the action was taken by one.

Mr Justice Black would ask his clerks if the case before the Supreme Court was in printed form. If it was, they knew, as far as he was concerned, the book or pamphlet was protected by the Constitution and could not be reviewed for its content--and he would never even bother to open it.

What makes this forum valuable is the character and content of its writers. That's the magic.

Writers migrate to where they feel comfortable about writing and where they think they will be listened to with some respect. There are also many subtlities laced through the forums that determine their success in readership.

Go back and look at the ISA page; it isn't just dormant; it's gone to join the choir invisible. Why did that happen? Why is this a more vibrant and assertive site?

If you look for an answer for what goes well here, I don't think it will include a pair of scissors in the discovery.

Bob Wulkowicz.


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## DDM (Dec 28, 2002)

Censorship is probably the reason we have gone from 15 new threads a day a few months ago to 4 or 5 now. Getting kinda boring. Anyway just my thought on the subject.


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## Toddppm (Dec 28, 2002)

The ISA board died mainly because the Format sucked! Just one reason.....


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## Stumper (Dec 28, 2002)

Actually, I think that the drop in activity on the boards simply reflects the season. Work is slower and we have less happening to stimulate discussion.


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## Joe (Dec 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Toddppm _
> *The ISA board died mainly because the Format sucked! Just one reason..... *



What sucks about the I.S.A. discussion groups format?



> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> *Actually, I think that the drop in activity on the boards simply reflects the season. Work is slower and we have less happening to stimulate discussion. *



I've noticed just the opposite effect at other sites in the past. It seems as winter set in people had more time to reflect on the previous season. I would think every1 interested in improving their skills and knowledge would use this extra time to read industry related material and ask questions. 

This board probably has more new comers who are less intimidated with asking questions of the more experienced people. I think this part of the attendance is dropping off. 

Joe


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## xander9727 (Dec 29, 2002)

JPS or Darin,
How many new hits and posts are we getting compared to this time last year? That should clear up the controversy on whether or not interest is declining.


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## Toddppm (Dec 29, 2002)

The Format at the ISA board sucks IMO because , it's a pain to participate(password protected), to read the threads is a pain, have to go through a couple diff. pages, then pick which forum, then which page, then which thread, then which page of the thread etc...I never had a problem with the cencorship there and I doubt many others did either. I had alot of problems with their system not remembering my info and then not letting me back in because I couldn't remember it and it wouldn't give it me! How about your forum Bob? Totally uncensored but still stagnant? Why's that? I think this site keeps going because of the ease of use and alot of different views and on-topic and useful discussions. 
How did the peeing out of a tree thread have anything to do with everyday tree activities?
Consider the source-I think the last thread he started was pulled because he logged in under a different name starting a thread pretending to be totally clueless, just starting crap, should have kept that one too? He's just getting his jollies and attention and it's working. I was suprised and glad to see people actually took this thread serious and tried to help but I would bet the guy was BS ing just to get attention?


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## Toddppm (Dec 29, 2002)

Was this one of your old employess? How did you deal with it? As a biz I wouldn't take the chance of a customer or neighbors seeing this, he'd be gone if he can't hold it or take care of it discreetly.


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## TREETX (Dec 29, 2002)

where is the pissing and moaning forum?? Can we move this there?? Maybe a whiny biotch forum or a "there's sand in my clit and its grinding" forum.

This stuff kills this forum

EDIT AWAY!


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## TREETX (Dec 29, 2002)

I have to agree about the censoring in that it does not make a site more popular - look at arborists. com that is stagnant as all get out. Being fresh and user friendly is the challenge.

AS does that. Tbuzz is fresh looking but not very fresh - bizz of the month stays the same for 6+mos. 

Censoring should be for direction and subject matter not necessarily the f-word, etc.

With that in mind, just because the content is about the Commercial Tree Care and Climbing Forum, doesn't mean it is about Commercial Tree Care and Climbing.

If you edit, do what you have to, use your gut and don't knee jerk to the squeakiest wheel.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 29, 2002)

i think that this sight has not to be only sensibly maintained to person-all freedoms of speach; but also ability to maintain a following; also a loyalty to the sponsors, of a level of proffessionalism that they could find 'sponsorable'.

All these things must be met and harmonized post by post; this can be a rather a difficult task sometimes i would imagine! If one is able and willing to step forward and sensibly do that, i belief wee should give some latitude, or take some time to chip in ourselves in such a serious manner. All of us have seen enough of life to know that no person or group can satisfy everyone in such a task.

It seems that some here, think that such censorship chases folx away; i think that i remember a time here, that the reverse was true with the trash that flowed un-abated. i know personally that it stunted my own growth and reaching here, as well as others that i miss.

i agree with Joe (oooooooooops!) about this should be a season that wee have more time to share and explore our experiences and models of understandings we have assembled. My biggest b______ with ISA was crashing, and logging on problems; all along wondering why Sherrill didn't create a board (for they both are highly recognized, concerned entities on their own) and lo and behold...... Besides, now i don't knead to ponder what it meant when someone said that their internet site went done on them!!......... i also think that Joe has another good point, about new members not being too intimidated to ask and respond; sometimes i think that we here have some work to do in that department.

i have heard of guys peeing outta da'tree around this area, so this topic wasn't totally in left field for me, though then as now; i might be only able to rationalize that in a huge Redwood or the like, where even coming down to eat is pro-hibitive. i've followed a few of Wolfie's posts, must admit that i'm not a fan; but i have followed DTE's too, so, for me; words from that monicker compels me to keep an open mind towards Wolfie!

i do not refute this open searching, and passionate input on these topics that may affect the direction and impact of this site; actually it is nice to see so many concerned.

But i do beleive that it is time to move on, to exert and present that energy into deeper understandings into the powers that flow so rawly around us in the field all the time.

Perhaps if i jest said something like "Joe, i think that there are times in a rig, before hinge tearoff, that the machine action of the load is a 1st class lever.........." (That outta do it!!)

Ummm, that would be a topic of it's own, exitting from here......

And if that don't, hear ye, i have found a page of the type of math that i taught myself in 5th grade, that i thought a few might find interesting; not just in it's methodology, but in it's unique open minded approach to familiar problems through a diffrent path; that has helped forge that same open mindness to approach rigging, of looking at all angles.


p.s. oops forgot the aforementioned link :{http://hucellbiol.mdc-berlin.de/~mp01mg/oldweb/1mutrach.htm}


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 29, 2002)

Just adding fuel to the fire by merging the two threads. Discression yahnoe.  

Call it what you will, but the owner of this site has said that this is a place for professionals to discourse proffesionaly. Many people opined to meand tha board that this was not a proper topic and had served it's life. Most along the lines of Nates post above. Not just one or two.

I base my discreasionary actions not on my gut feelings, but on the guidlines Darin has set down (I do loosely follow them, but then we would not have much to read if I didn't) and past events that have set off flames and grudges.

I will not erase something because one or two people object, but if where I feel enough people give a cogent argument for doing so.

Jus as a few of you say this is mot my forum and should not mess with it, this is not any small groups forum and we all should think a little while posting.

Part of my objection to the current thread in question is that many of the responces were more attacks on him then answers to his question. 

My own take on the last few weeks is that some people went to visit family. I know Ox is up in the mountains skiing with his kids and Tom D. went to see his brother and family in TX. 

Me, I got a cold, so I spent the holidays with y'all.


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## Treeman14 (Dec 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Frans _
> *My wife ownes horses. Has for many years.
> I cannot remember even once where she put down a horse becouse of a loose shoe.
> ____________________________________________________
> ...


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## TREETX (Dec 29, 2002)

I think a lot of people just want to be heard even if they are talking trash and not COMMMERCIAL Tree Care and Climbing.

This is not a place where you have the right to be heard. Freedom of speech and the right to be heard as you wish are different things.

In the words of Mr. Burns (Simpsons) - "If I want to hear mindless droning, I will befriend an air conditioner"


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Frans _
> *The purpose of the "sponsers" is to sell, sell, sell and make money. How are the two connected? I'm confused.
> ***** they are not out there scratching out a living working with trees and shrubs.
> 
> *



Ummmmmmm, i for one have not seen that attitude from the sponsors; in fact if that was the only thing; i dare to suggest; that there wouldn't be any cartoons of info, or even this site!!

Dare i suggest; that some of ye would demand more reverance to someone that entered your realm/ home than you give here?

Personally i feel i have a lot to thank this site for, brought to us by these sponsors; let alone long before this site to previously, that i have had many reasons to thank the Sherrill clan for. As i watch the world racing around me i see all to few that do as much for the public and customers; through their comprehensive assemblies of tools, techniques and passion to help. i have talked to several Sherrill employees over the years, and have always recieved the reflection of Tobe himself being hard working and fair, setting the tone for all else, so find totally groundless any imagery cast of a fat cat draining us poor sweathogs dry, as leverage to self justify such a raunchy attitude.

So i find it only appropriate, that if some wish to ****, that they at least do have the grace to not do it in the sponsor's own house, and offer to do it from elsewhere. That is only fair, and of course appreciated!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 29, 2002)

There are realy only two sponsors to this site, Darin Johnson and Sherrill. 

Now Tobe did not know he was sponsoring this site for quite a while, so realy it is Sean Larkins internet division of the company that is sponsoring the site. 

So i will not agree with that type of language about two members of this community.

Maybe i will delete this thread too if this direction continues.

Fans, I am disapointed thought you were more mature then that. Or is that the barley talkin?


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## Menchhofer (Dec 29, 2002)

I believe it was correct to delete the post as it was very unprofessional along with the profanity used on this site (even though some of the letters are missing).

To me, these types of threads are totally unnecessary and also disrespectful. The words we use show others how some of us seem to express ourselves and it does not look very good to the professional world.

If this were a bank employee board, a microsoft company board, or any other type of profession organization, I am confident some of the posts and words we have been using would be unacceptable.

I am sure we can find other more important issues.


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## Wulkowicz (Dec 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Toddppm _
> 
> *The Format at the ISA board sucks IMO because , it's a pain to participate(password protected), to read the threads is a pain, have to go through a couple diff. pages, then pick which forum, then which page, then which thread, then which page of the thread etc...</b>
> 
> ...


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## Frans (Dec 29, 2002)

"There are realy only two sponsors to this site, Darin Johnson and Sherrill.

Now Tobe did not know he was sponsoring this site for quite a while, so realy it is Sean Larkins internet division of the company that is sponsoring the site.

So i will not agree with that type of language about two members of this community"
JPS
I'm sorry did I say something wrong about the sponsors?
I reread my post and all I saw was my ranting about equipment salespeople making money. So what is the big deal? They do their thing and I do mine. Oh and by the way I have always said good things about Sherrills, I back them up 100% always have. bought lots of stuff from them and will buy again. I think my past will show where I stand on them.
RE: this topic. I didnt read any of the prior posts just throwing my two cents in . This is the internet is it not? 
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 29, 2002)

Absolutely amazing how something so insignificant has gotten blown all out of porportion simply because JPS went nuts with his magic eraser again. If he had simply left it alone, it would be dead by now and we might actually be discussing something worthwhile.

I propose that JPS's right to delete be revoked. Let him edit away, that way if he erases posts there will still be a blank post showing that it was erased. I think that the way he can make stuff just 'disappear' is disconcerting, considering how many posts he's erased (or moved, or 'merged', or modified) so far.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 29, 2002)

Dang fellas, perhaps someone that can keep everyone and every faction estaticly happy would like to step up, and take the load from JP for a while!

Speaking for myself, i don't think i could muster the time or patience. Then the deal about posting his number and opening himself up to everyone on that level too, must be some kinda crazy self-torture.

When tough choices have to be made, you might not always agree with those that must make them, but some respect should be given, especially as it is earned.

i'm not real high on the censorship thing myself, but respect-full of others efforts in doing their best. Fact is i remember a youngster that the 'buzzard' got, and many cried for his censorship for sometimes definitely less tresspasses. i have always person-ally thought that those times tempered these, hard choices had to be made there too. Some said too late, some say too soon on these now; there ain't no way to keep everyone happy; all you can do is your best!

JP and Sherrill have satisfied me there.


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## Wulkowicz (Dec 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by treeclimber165 _
> *Absolutely amazing how something so insignificant has gotten blown all out of porportion simply because JPS went nuts with his magic eraser again. If he had simply left it alone, it would be dead by now and we might actually be discussing something worthwhile.*




The initial topic dies its own death. That's is what generally happens as the great correction factor; apathy.

What still steams ahead here is the abuse of changing or deleting someone's writings without even bothering to ask. 

Seems to me, if you're always wanting to turn off the stove, stay out of the kitchen.


Bob Wulkowicz


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## rborist1 (Dec 29, 2002)

:Eye:


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## Wulkowicz (Dec 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *Dang fellas, perhaps someone that can keep everyone and every faction estaticly happy would like to step up, and take the load from JP for a while!</b>
> 
> 
> ...



If everyone were happy, we'd still be in caves peering out into the sun. And doing your best is a goal; it should never be an excuse.


Bib Wulkowicz


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## DDM (Dec 30, 2002)

Reading a thread like this one puts me in the mood to get out my CC and buy some toys from sherrill.


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## Wulkowicz (Dec 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DDM _
> *Reading a thread like this one puts me in the mood to get out my CC and buy some toys from sherrill.  *




See. The thread does have a value.


Tubs


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## trees4life (Dec 30, 2002)

Can you say professionalism? Anyone browsing the original thread, not familiar with this site or the members, was likely flabergasted to read about such behaviour. I agree that the thread was started to create some 'talk' and test the censorship waters.

I for one, am glad it was deleted. I am tired of hearing about what kind of people tree workers are, and people putting us down as a bunch of low lifes. As previously stated, this site is for professional use. 

I too, am not a huge fan of censorship, however I do believe that sometimes it is needed. I'm no fan of PC (political correctness) either, but understand it does have a place in society. If I want to read about bodily functions, or ethnic slurs, there are other sites to visit. I believe many of us come here to be enlightened, and discuss the business near & dear to us.

AS and the administrators have my support on this issue.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 30, 2002)

ooooooooooo Wulke!

i have nothing but the highest respect for your contributions of humor, intelligence, efforts to share such etc. here and elsewhere, i can only aspire to reach some of those heights myself, from the first time i ever read any of your lendings of such going years back now. i see and respect in you this soaring high creativity that flows out generouslyu and inteligently, and wishes to fly, reach and grow unfettered; also graciously extending that to others as you step up and champion this cause so eloquently as you have done with many other causes over the years.

All i can say, is that everyone else is not you, nor so gifted or care-full in these arenas. Even in your most royal self humility, you must quietly inside realize that about yourself by now! i have previously in the last weak almost written you these things privately, but now quite fairly publically pro-claim them.

There was a time here in this place, that these freedoms where disrespected and taken advantage of, folks where attacked as you, yourself example about the ladies. Though that wasn't the case here in this particular posting; those previous things did tune up the censoring some; and increase the awareness of the sponsors, almost to the point of our demise!

The peeing thread didn't violate me, but nor did i favor it; but as one quiet watcher (spy-der); i can sit back and see where these censoring things have come from here and how they have necessarily evolved to re-embrace the written standards that pre-dated the actual problems themselves. i don't beleive that a newspaper or tv would run such an article, for these people have freedoms of choice too. For one's freedom to swing their arms around, ends where the next person's nose begins; just as one's freedom to cuss, might depend on who's house you are standing in, as not to violate their freedoms of choice in their own space.

i think that the sponsors have done well for us here, that these censored items are not obtuse; and that in giving back, cooperating with them on these things, in their house is the write thing. Person-ally i have always envisioned of us giving back to them on this higher level, whereby; the contributions here where so intelligent, helpfull, bright, shiny and honorable, that the sponsors could direct anyone here without reservation. That the catalouges, internet sites, biz cards and other pro-paganda would proudly screech out invitations to here; quite honestly i don't think that we have given them that here, for what they have done for us. Quite the contrary, i think that we have taken that from them; and that JP tries to neutralize some of that on our be-half as well as theirs; the man in the middle! But if we could give the sponsors that, and they could confident-ally advertise more openly this place, we would empower them to draw in a larger pool of minds and observations from their extended network to draw from and share with; whereby wee would all win!

i really, really, really don't think that JP has anything at all against bad grammer and miss-spellings; in fact in reading his posts it seems that he actually reveres them!!!!!!! i myself whimsically abuse them in humor, message, duality as part of my own creativity, and maintaining lightness in my throes of seriousness; to find that cooling balance. In fact, someone did suggest i migrate here from ISA if that was the way i wanted to be! So y'all can blame that person!

P.s. edit-It is nice to hear from trees4life, as i had fears that wee wouldn't again, as part of the attrition rate around here; as i do about others, for these same reasons.


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## trees4life (Dec 30, 2002)

Tree Spyder

I can't stay away for long. I enjoy the interesting discussions, and have come to respect the varied opinions and vast knowledge expressed here. 

Even though I don't necessarily agree with some opinions, I respect the fact that people can disagree, and it(usually) won't affect their respect for others. However, when professionalism goes down the toilet, I believe it does tend to drive people away, hopefully only temporarily.


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## Greg (Dec 30, 2002)

--ok guys,,, Let me change the topic a bit.... 
I think abortion is murder, and the Isreal is getting what it deserves from the Palestinians (JPS fix that spelling for me please). 
Anyone want to share any good free **** sites??
Greg


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## Toddppm (Dec 30, 2002)

At another forum I go to they can just lock the thread so no more crap can be added to it. That way it's still there but slowly goes to the bottom of the barrel where it belongs and if people don't have enough sense to let it die and start bringing up new posts related to it ,then their posts get deleted. Seems to work alright but the other forum goes a little over board with it sometimes. Although it is theirs to do what they want and is a very popular board AND it is NUMBER 1 a biz. to them.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 30, 2002)

What puzzles me is how can it be "censorship" in its current bludgeoning narrow-minded reactioanry sence if you are in a privately run forum that states that one cannot write what ever one pleases? 

This is not a book burning or someone cutting holes in your private mail  Sheesh, pull your thumbs out of you collective mouths and grow up.

I realy don't put all that much effort into this, though I do appreciate Ken's attempts to make it look so. The one time I did, merging some old threads together, was more bother then it was worth.

I did not pull the Wolfie thread right away, because i thought it may have some marginal profesional value. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in he was actualy wondering how others would react. After it turned into a Wolfie hating thread and the last several posts to it were "please delete this, I did.

So....maybe if a few of the more imature individuals would not make personal attacks in their postings, I wuld not be so apt to exercize that discression that I am given.

I can lock a thread too, but then to delete it i would have to do some work in finding it. Still if I did that, then soem people would just statr anothere thread lamenting the heavy hand of the sensor.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 30, 2002)

Hehe, hehe, censoring sucks dude, hehe.


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## Jock (Dec 30, 2002)

Alwaes wanted tu sae something abowt the spellin on thees threds, but felt it mite be rood.


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jock _
> *Alwaes wanted tu sae something abowt the spellin on thees threds, but felt it mite be rood. *


The sad part is that I can actually comprehend what you said! Lots of practice I guess.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 30, 2002)

Me too! But, i have my JP decoder ring to thank for that!! It not only worx on his threads!!


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## Crofter (Dec 30, 2002)

*Need for a Moderator?*

To be effective any meeting has to have a stated purpose or agenda to attract the people with interests and knowledge to contribute. There will always be people attracted who only want an audience or in some other way wish to embarrass the agenda. If there is no chairman (moderator) to keep things in line the meeting descends to such a level of confusion and futility that the people who could contribute leave in disgust. Governance by concensus only works in VERY small groups. Individuals or committees have to be appointed that have decision making power or we lose track of what we were about to do in the first place. I am however in favour of rather severe handling of anyone who abuses a position of trust.


Frank


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## DDM (Dec 30, 2002)

LOL Controversy Makes for some interesting reading if you ask me. :blob5:


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## xander9727 (Dec 30, 2002)

In retrospect I'm sorry I asked.

Next time I'll send JPS a private message.


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## jimmyq (Dec 31, 2002)

*treepee*

Just for the record, as a 'new' arborist it was an enlightening thought as to bringing a bottle up with to let fly in, I would have had to learn the hard way as it was something I hadn't really thought of. So I am glad I caught the thread while it was up. As for removing it for the sake of other folks getting a bad impression.. I think it could have stood as it wasn't perverse, it was a matter of discussion on a legit standpoint.

cheers.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 31, 2002)

jimmyq,
That's the point, there was really nothing wrong with the thread. I felt the same way about the "Climber Killed" thread. I can't imagine a more relevant topic. No matter how you look at it, that was stooopid.

I too knew a climber that would treepee, and I thought this thread was relevant.

If the moderator only leaves threads he likes, the remaining threads will be pretty monotonous. A forum should continue ahead on it's own momentum, with absolute minimum editing. The odd thread that pops up once in a while ain't going to ruin a forum, heavy handed editing however, could.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 31, 2002)

So how about this, I will not delete treads intoto if others will refrane from attacking those people who post questions.

As I said above I did feel that the subject had some maginal benefit to the board and left it there for, but too much of it turned into a reason to attack Wolfie. 

That combined with the subject mater cuased me to agree with those in dissent.

I will still merge threads, move threads and edit portions. 

As for the death thread, I tried to explain why i goofed more then onece, but I guess I'm not allowed to make any

So from now on everyone needs to give a post the benefit of the doubt when responding and answer it seriousely:Eye:


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 31, 2002)

Ummmmmmmmm are those supposed to be like new rules???


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 31, 2002)

I thought that was moe like a request to follow the ones already in place.


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## DDM (Dec 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *So how about this, I will not delete treads intoto if others will
> 
> *




Dont tires have treads?  Wish my tires had more treads wouldnt have spent 4 hrs today trying to get the truck unstuck.


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## Wulkowicz (Jan 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rborist1 _
> *The only animal to be caged in Bob's zoo here (and I am not ashamed to admit it)! Thanks for keeping it free Bob. At least I am free for all to see if someone wishes to enter the now infamous zoo. *



Here was the response in a forum that doesn't censor:

<hr>



Conference:<u> Banished to the Zoo</u>
From: Bob Wulkowicz ([email protected])
Topic: Introduction (1/1)
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 08:15 PM


Mark Twain wrote a short story about a man idly reading the instructions on the back of his train ticket while listening to the rhythmic clicks of the train wheels as he traveled to the West. "Punch in the presence of the passenger," the small ticket said--and with little else to do, he read and reread the tiny packet of words.

Soon, the text and the sound of the wheels merged into a little ditty that he couldn't get out of his head. I think it went something along the lines of "Punch, brothers. Punch with care. Punch in the presence of the passenger." (That may not be bad, considering I haven't read the story in 40 or so years.)

Anyway, the poor man couldn't get rid of the refrain. The train wheels clicked continously and the song endlessly repeated itself. Driven, he went from person to person, trying to pass it on. At the end of the story, he finally escapesd it--and you realize to your horror, that he got rid of the tune by giving it to you, the reader.


Now Craig is no Twain, but he does qualify as a little choo-choo by being the first occupant of our brand-new Zoo.

I don't delete letters in my forum, but I can ship them out here to the zoo. They still exist intact as free speech, but they're in a new context of fellow curiosities. Since there's no one else here yet, Craig remains a singular curiosity for a while.

His offense was to post a No Topic letter that follows below. Take fair warning note that if you follow the link, you are taken to a semi-addled-less-sense site that captures your browser and forces you to punch OK many, many times until you're released.

No finesse of Twain, these guys. It's a lot closer to sticky toilet paper that won't get off the bottom of your shoe than it is to the gently adhesive transparencies of Clemens. But, maybe it's cute to someone who's pushed a video game button all his life.

So, Craig's letter is now here, looking out from between the bars, staring back at us while we smile in at him. He's certainly free to write again, but he should be aware of the zoo keepers that persist in peeking around the corner once in a while and eyeing him suspiciously.

Perhaps if he had been more literate, perhaps if he had aspired to talk about trees a few times before he tried being funny with a boomers' sense of humour, he wouldn't now be fingering through the food bowl looking for a carrot.

Ah, well. See you next week, Mr. J. Take solace you're not in the petting section


Bob Wulkowicz



----------------------------------------


<i>
From: Craig Jabs ([email protected])
Topic: No Topic (1/1) (1/1)
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 04:17 PM


If your need'in a laugh here is a good one, things are not what they seem, so don't worry, be happy! http://members.tripod.com/~nukiee/game.html


</i>


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## Wulkowicz (Jan 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TreeCo _
> *Bob,
> 
> I'm interested in reading your web site but could not get to the web page.
> ...



That's very interesting. I just tried to get there myself and was told the host couldn't be found. If this response appears, it would have had to be sent through www.eneract. com and implies something is working.

Maybe I didn't pay my bill. But, it's automatically deducted (?)

Anyway, if you do someday get there; it's incomplete and still in progress--the same state as when I started it up. It's also stuffed with more debris than just trees. Sorry, I'm not a one career guy.

In any case, thanks for being interested and I'll waddle over to see what's fixable.

Just tap on the tree as an egg picture to get inside.


Bob


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## Wulkowicz (Jan 6, 2003)

Well, they seem to have blown up and email is also down. This is a bit like being a prisoner and passing out notes through a crack in the bricks.

Maybe, it'll be OK, perhaps I'll wink out of existence. 

Just another reminder boys and gals, back up, back up, back up--and not just over the cat.


bobw


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## Wulkowicz (Jan 6, 2003)

it's back. email to work later, I'm told.

Some will say, having it return is regrettable. I'm in the business of answering questions that no one has asked. Somewhat presumptious, I'm told as well, but you can decide.

I never did figure out how to put the various links in nice little boxes, so that's still awkward.

Anyway, thanks again for being interested--and do comment or ask, or complain, all are needed in intelligent debate about new things.

At least, I'll try to give a spirited response.


Bob Wulkowicz


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## rborist1 (Jan 6, 2003)

:Eye:


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## Wulkowicz (Jan 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rborist1 _
> *Bob,
> 
> It seems as though the single caged creature in your zoo has passed on. The link is no longer valid. So if you are gazing into the zoo cage now, all you will see is a dead animal. *



Yes Craig,

Mercifully, the site you planned on leading us to has expired. I checked it before posting the URL, so's I wouldn't be a trojan horse for your once fiendish plot. (Or was it, blot?)

You is still in the zoo; and apparently alive, if your above post is any indicator of relative undeadness.

I wasn't picking on you here, at least no more than usual, but I had intended to have an example for JPS and thuthers who are heavy-handed and beguiled by the power to snuff someone else's words.

Keep writing --and get noisier. Lord knows you need the exercise...


Bob Wulkowicz


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## Wolf Blitzer (Jan 6, 2003)

Thanks JPS, It was a legitimate question, and just because it was me, people jumped all over it. 

Its human nature, and because work sites are often isolated, I thought most people would have had some experience.

I am not facinated by bodily functions, however the urinator in question also takes dumps in the chip truck.

Please, is this common, and no more attacks.

Wolf


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## monkeypuzzle (Jan 6, 2003)

I think it happens a lot. 




Why do we say ''take" a dump? I always leave mine.


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## rborist1 (Jan 7, 2003)

:Eye:


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## Wulkowicz (Jan 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rborist1 _
> *We typically use the back of the truck too, but I have been seriously considering getting a "Bumper Dumper" for each of the crews.
> 
> 
> ...




Now that is funny. Could it also be a chipper box for bonsai trees? There would be a classicly small margin in that work--choosing limbs for reduction with a magnifying glass and a pair of toenail clippers. 

What would a euc man do? Squash them impudent little bastards flat?
"It ain't no hazard tree no more, Harvey."


Bob Wulkowicz


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## Dennis (Jan 7, 2003)

WOW...I just read through all five pages at once..well..in order anyway...and the only thing I could understand was that Craig peed out of a tree??? LOL

Seriously though, I have the editing and deleting rights over on the chainsaw forum as most of you know, but I wont delete anything unless it is very distasteful...such as links to a **** site(which has happened) I never got the chance to delete lamberts naked @ss..someone beat me to it.....but if I were to receive several (more than the usual complainers) complaints about a particular post, I would probably remove it as well....

Myself, as a sponsor of the site(yes there are a few more), might not want to be associated with certain types of posts...and that is the sponsors choice. So, it is up to Darin and the appointed moderators to make the appropriate choices. 95% of the time they are right in the decision...the other 5%, well...stuff happens...mistakes happen, judgements are marred(usually by alcohol).

Give the moderators a break guys...we are only trying to do what is best for the site....not that feedback isnt a good thing, but a whole thread 5 pages long slamming poor ol JPS??? Prolly not necessary. well......hehe


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 7, 2003)

Out of over a 1000 threads, this one is now in the top 20 for views and replies (both) for sure, for a lil'while now in this 'Pro Care & Climber Forum'. So let's get on to Caring and Cimbing, Pro-se! Cuz, person-ally i think that the statistic is a lil'em-bare-azzing, so to speak, so it is time to let it circle the drain. IMHO. Perhaps proper for another forum of worthy investigation. Maybe trash the pesticide forum with it, they don't use it much, no seriously (who me?), maybe better in a forumn for issues that affect the whole site globally and not jsut this specific section having it's own rules. As far as giving JP a hard time, whom can re-cyst?


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## rborist1 (Jan 7, 2003)

:Eye:


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## Newfie (Jan 7, 2003)

Of all the threads that go off topic, I am amazed that this one has stayed true to the course.

Go figure!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 10, 2003)

I worked for a guy who had a 5 gal bucket with a seat on it. One would have to take a tarp, make a teepee. If you did not use a plastic bag you would have to clean the bucket. 

Oh it was the users responability to dispose of his own offal too.


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## monkeypuzzle (Jan 10, 2003)

"Develop and maintain a sense of humor" #9 on a list of ten techniques to avoid burnout. Tree Care Industry/ July 2002/


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 11, 2003)

We have dug a whole, put an upsidedown bucket over it with a large diamond shape cut out of the bottom, everyone is done, remove bucket, push dirt back in hole. But, that was for camping.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 11, 2003)

I have my truck on site on most jobs and try to schedule my "movements" before work and durring lunch. 

I have knocked and asked the homeowner for use and there is a spare roll of TP in the truck for if there is no other option whilst working in the boonies.A definate emergancy worst case scenario.


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## treeclimber165 (Jan 11, 2003)

I need 3 cups of coffee in the morning before heading out the door. Usually the second cup works. Sometimes I may be a few minutes late to work but I do my best to handle personal matters before showing up for work. If not, I simply try to take it easy and not strain too much until lunchtime. 
I cannot remember the last time I needed to break away from a job to use the restroom. Like John, I now have my Ranger on site for all jobs since all my gear is in it. I have had to let others borrow my truck to run to the corner during a job and it's nice having that option.


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## Jock (Jan 11, 2003)

I suppose no other country could think of a bumper dumper


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## Toddppm (Jan 11, 2003)

I've left the job when necessary and I could make it! , gone in the chip truck several times whatever works that is discreet. Once went to dump in neighboring parkland(woods) and had a deer walk within 10 ft. of me with my drawers around my ankles guess he wasn't expecting me in his hood.


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## ORclimber (Jan 11, 2003)

I worked for a company that fired a forman because he went #2 on a customers property. He never would have been found out except the customers dog dug it up and played in it and tracked toilet paper and worse into the house. He should have gone in the back of the truck.


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## monkeypuzzle (Jan 12, 2003)

What kind off dog was it,a sh#t eater?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 13, 2003)

I know a guy who did it in the bushes and the client complaind to him about the migrant labor they had doing yard work. He kept his mouth shut and let them believe what they wanted. Never did it again he said  

No names, Yah you


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## monkeypuzzle (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm with TreeCo about the environmental issue. Wish more people gave a [email protected], pun intended.

What does one trip to the 7-11 cost?

Gas

Down time

Wear and tear

2-gal. of water for flushing

Electricity

Global warming 

plus what I left out.....add it up for the WHOLE planet and BAM!

I say make like a cat and go in the chip truck


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## Toddppm (Jan 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TreeCo _
> * not a problem as in Toddppm experience. YeeHaw.... *


Wrong gender, I think I scared her


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## Darin (Jan 13, 2003)

Man, I have been in the dark here. First time I saw this thread. I want to say that JPS does a great job for me. I don't care if he edits everyone's posts. I know when he does it, it must not be in good taste or not worth putting on the site. This site due to the clean topics is the premier site on the net. There have been many more sites on the internet before mine. They are not even close to as busy as this site and this site keeps growing. So if you don't think what the crew does here works, look at all the rest of the sites. Like most people, most don't want to be censored. But if you don't most try to out due the previous on being the worst. Like it started in the music industry. Two Live Crew used to be nasty. Now people rap about raping girls and killing cops. Look at that society. Low end of the totem pole. I don't want to be on the low end of the totem pole. I want this site to be looking down on the others. I think this one topic on what you can and cant say is one of the most popular on here. I think its like with kids (as I have one) they push your limits on what they can and cant do. It's just an inate behavior you'all have. 

I didn't read the post. I am sorry if I offended anyone that we erased it, but you have got us all back as we have 2 pages in this one thread of #1 and #2 out of trees. I support JPS and you should too. All the moderators of this site do this for free!!!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 14, 2003)

BTW, Darin moved the Distton palm saw thread


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## treeclimber165 (Jan 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *BTW, Darin moved the Distton palm saw thread *


Nope, it's still in this forum, where it belongs.


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## Darin (Jan 15, 2003)

Yeah, I didnt move it.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 15, 2003)

It's here now because Dennis moved it back after someone called me powermad for moving it.

After dennis moved it back i looked at the log and it reads : 
*Moved (with redirect) to 'Chainsaw' by Darin on 11-04-2002 12:04 AM.*


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## Darin (Jan 15, 2003)

If I did move it, I can't remember.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 15, 2003)

I was doing the same thing so that is why I had to check the log


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