# Another obsolete skidder added to my collection of no longer made machines



## plasticweld (Apr 20, 2013)

I bought a 170 franklin skidder the other day, joining the ranks with my 240 timberjack 664 clark and a td8 dresser dozer. all of which are no longer supported by dealers who still go by the name they were originally sold by. It did not really strike me as odd until it was brought up by my wife who is responsible for the books and when I came home and told her I had purchased another machine her only question was it; either a clark or timberjack. Getting parts always seems to be a challenge at the same time it has almost become standard to realize when something breaks you just don't call the dealer and more and order the parts. I figure I must not be the only guy here running this kind of equipment; while it would be great to own newer stuff I go for the affordable older stuff. Not sure if there has ever been a study of cost effectiveness per dollar spent on equipment, old verses new verses, older but can afford a spare one philosophy


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## jrcat (Apr 20, 2013)

I see you are in Montour Falls NY if Booneville is close to you you can call CJ logging supply. they sell parts for timber jacks and tigercat Their number is (315)942-3662. Give them a call they might even be able to get parts for the franklin.


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## ArtB (Apr 20, 2013)

_cost effectiveness per dollar spent on equipment, old verses new verses_

As the 'proud owner' of a couple of old JD440C s (one loader, one blade), a D2 cat, Ford 4500 backhoe, and 853 bobcat can state: pretty sure it would not be cost effective for a pro -- only for a DIY who has a machine shop, fairly complete welding setup, a place to work on the stuff out of the weather AND who enjoys working on the stuff. 

example - D2 broke rod in the pony engine - crank end from old IH engine, wrist pin from L16 Datsun engine, cut, weld, machne bearing, good as new about 20 hours later. Like said, gotta enjoy doing that stuff (and know how), maybe would not pay day wages if you have a good hourly rate. 

Well, maybe if interest rates get high again. Say a low hours JD450 for camparison, about $30K or so? At 5% return on capital (market or your business), that newer 450 is costing you $1500 a year in depreciation or lost investment income, say $1000 lost factoring in taxes. 


If you ONLY have 1 major break (e.g 20 hours) failure a year (implies you are expert at maintenance and 'hearing' when something is getting ready to be a problem) then as your own repairman you are working for, factoring in taxes that you do not pay, about 1000/20 times 1.3 tac factor = $65/hour. 

Compare that to your income net for the same hours after taxes. Varies hugely if infaltion takes off or if deflation ever happens. 

Running old junk is very cost effective for us retired old farts <G> PS: did NOT factor in the cost of tools and barn, etc, us retired 'old farts' have that suff anyway, eh??


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## jrcat (Apr 20, 2013)

I think 2nd gear in my td8 is starting to slip but I just go easy on it and pay attention to the trans oil regularly. I like the older equipment anyway as I have run alot of it and know it well. This new stuff is difficult to work on for me with the electronics now a days. I am looking to find myself a backup machine soon so I can be able to take one down and run the other.


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## plasticweld (Apr 20, 2013)

Art at first I was going to say I am not an old fart then after doing the math I have to confess to 36 years of logging/turning wrenches. I do envy guys with newer stuff, I have always claimed that it was easier to make the repairs and needed and have a good maintenance program than make payments. I figured that if things slow down or go wrong it costs me nothing to park the stuff as I can't break it if it is not being used and I do remember real well when I got started that the payments had to be made whether the mill shut down or put me on quota or the weather was bad or I had slow stretch buying timber. Congrats on the fix on the D2 nothing like being creative; every logger should know a good machinist, or be one.

I did not really need the third machine but the price was right and it will just be a spare in case one of the other ones goes down or if I need a machine on a different lot


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## plasticweld (Apr 20, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I see you are in Montour Falls NY if Booneville is close to you you can call CJ logging supply. they sell parts for timber jacks and tigercat Their number is (315)942-3662. Give them a call they might even be able to get parts for the franklin.



and then just go to extension 72 they know my name and credit card number out there I am still waiting for rear seal for the 240 which you would think would be a common thing to stock


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## northmanlogging (Apr 20, 2013)

try finding the loader conversion banjo bolt for a 1941 ford 9n... while its stuck between a stump and a hemlock log... 100yds from the nearest "road" 

A pipe tap and an elbow from the hardware store a couple of fittings later, and 5 gallons of trans/hydro fluid, not to mention the whole week shot to Hel, and shes back to work...

Lucky for me I am a machinist 4-5 days a week.


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## jrcat (Apr 20, 2013)

plasticweld said:


> and then just go to extension 72 they know my name and credit card number out there I am still waiting for rear seal for the 240 which you would think would be a common thing to stock



Lyons equipment/CJ logging has my credit card number too lol WHat kind of winch? eaton , gearmatic carco? My td8 has the gearmatic 19. it has been giving me some fits here and there I need a new clutch band for it .. the narrow one I think


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## plasticweld (Apr 20, 2013)

the td 8 does not have a winch on it, I wish it did, the 240 has a eaton winch on it. I had winch problems last year and bought a used winch for 2600 for it, that was a big mistake, it as suppose to fit my machine it did not without switching a bunch of stuff around, by the time I fixed a few seals, new spring brake and a couple of bearings I had another grand in it. Mark out there said he would rebuild mine for around 5 grand I wish I had him do it, the one I have still needs new brake band and clutches are so-so in it. It seemed like a lot of money at the time but I am sure now I would have been money and time ahead to have just had them rebuild the old one, 2600 at the times seemed like to big a difference


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## jrcat (Apr 21, 2013)

The old duck Walt at the littlevalley branch is a good guy. He can fix most things on those old jacks in his sleep.


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## parttime (Apr 22, 2013)

plasticweld, may as well buy this one. JD rep. tells me there not making it anymore. another obsolete skidder.


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## plasticweld (Apr 22, 2013)

That machine looks to good to be in my stable, it does not even look tired, why I cant even see where someone had dropped a tree in on it. My guys would feel they were the only ones wearing their work boots to the wedding.


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## plasticweld (Apr 22, 2013)

This will fit in fine with the rest of my tired only stuff, the only thing the Franklin has in common with your skidder is the color,


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## parttime (Apr 23, 2013)

plasticweld said:


> That machine looks to good to be in my stable, it does not even look tired, why I cant even see where someone had dropped a tree in on it. My guys would feel they were the only ones wearing their work boots to the wedding.



give my guys about a week, I'll look like yours.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 23, 2013)

kinda looks like my jobsite nothing wrong with old stuff a big logger once told me you can work for me when you go out of business well i'm still here he's all gone it my be junk to some but its paid for and makes me a living [664 clark 666clark s8 international 540 jd] but franklin don't look bad :msp_thumbup:


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## BERN-TIMBER (Apr 28, 2013)

Plasticweld you should be ok with that rig, its a haul for you but Cochran Equipment in Southwest PA can hook you up with anything you need for that. whats she got for a powerplant? Detroit or Cummins I imagine, either way both serviceable. Your 240 looks good, you happy with it after your extensive overhaul?


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## plasticweld (Apr 28, 2013)

it has a turbo 453, I wish it were a cummins but will live with it. The timberjack after spending a total of $44,000 with the purchase price is all squared away. after I got down with the build I figured it needed new tires to go with the new paint. I justified all of the money with the idea that I am a old guy and getting tired of jumping up and down off all of the skidders with auto trans, since finishing the jack I have since hired two guys who are almost half may age. I was never sure if spending the money was a good idea when I did it, but the machine has run pretty much trouble free since its make over


http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/174561.htm Link to the make over


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## q-tip jr (Apr 30, 2013)

for what it's worth, my 170 is now old enough to go to the liquor store without adult supervision, ('92) nearly 17000 hours, I'm the second owner - there are resources for parts, takes some detective work, and contacts always help


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## Oldtimer (Apr 30, 2013)

My 1988 Pelican special.


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## jrcat (Apr 30, 2013)

That 648 is impressive. I need the next contract before I dig into a skidder. Thats also an impressive load of wood there too. I think I see a serco loader as far as I can tell. Post more pics! lol


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 30, 2013)

wish I got a 640 instead of 540 its just a little to light for our job


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## Oldtimer (May 1, 2013)

Jr., you have a good eye! That is a Serco 8500. The load is about 14 cord of poplar pulp.

The 648D is perfect for a one or two man operation. Big enough to move wood like you mean it, small enough to get around well in the woods. And relatively easy to work on. No computers or fly-by-wire crap.
A 540 is a fine small lot / houselot machine. But the grapple makes the biggest difference.


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## jrcat (May 1, 2013)

Those serco 8500 are a mean loader. They will pick the truck over if you arent careful.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 1, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Jr., you have a good eye! That is a Serco 8500. The load is about 14 cord of poplar pulp.
> 
> The 648D is perfect for a one or two man operation. Big enough to move wood like you mean it, small enough to get around well in the woods. And relatively easy to work on. No computers or fly-by-wire crap.
> A 540 is a fine small lot / houselot machine. But the grapple makes the biggest difference.



she don't like them 800ft trees front end bouncy


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## Oldtimer (May 2, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> she don't like them 800ft trees front end bouncy



Drop and winch, drop and winch, drop and winch. Beats a broken axle.:msp_thumbup:


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Drop and winch, drop and winch, drop and winch. Beats a broken axle.:msp_thumbup:



yea but no winch shes grapple only. got 640 axles so I was told, I have seen a lot of guys have trouble with the 540 axles guess I been lucky. i'll use my 666 clark it's cable, when ever the machine shop gets the bushings done :bang: hard to get stuff done waiting on some one else.


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## Oldtimer (May 3, 2013)

540B grapple? or 548D?

Here's a few pics from today, the start of a 50MBF cut for a friend..


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## treeslayer2003 (May 3, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> 540B grapple? or 548D?
> 
> Here's a few pics from today, the start of a 50MBF cut for a friend..



540 b grapple '84.....that white pine? we have mostly yellow, pine market crap here now.


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## Oldtimer (May 3, 2013)

Yes, white pine. They don't look it, but those are decent sized. Not huge, but decent.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 3, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Yes, white pine. They don't look it, but those are decent sized. Not huge, but decent.



would you believe the only mill here won't take em, run across em once in a wile, they cut like butter here.


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## Oldtimer (May 3, 2013)

Up here, the mills don't want the red pine or pitch pine..there's a market for the red, but it's so low priced that it's hardly worth cutting. Most gets run right to pulp or fuel chips.


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## Oldtimer (May 3, 2013)

A pic from today I forgot to upload.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 3, 2013)

good lookin tractor, I don't think pine will ever bring good money again here, only got one mill within 75 mile now. can you believe gum pays better.


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## Oldtimer (May 4, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> good lookin tractor, I don't think pine will ever bring good money again here, only got one mill within 75 mile now. can you believe gum pays better.



Opportunity knocks!

Obtain a decent single post band saw mill. Buy all the white pine you can find. Saw it out into 2x6 and 1x boards. It will sell. Craigslist is a wonderful tool.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Opportunity knocks!
> 
> Obtain a decent single post band saw mill. Buy all the white pine you can find. Saw it out into 2x6 and 1x boards. It will sell. Craigslist is a wonderful tool.



I have a friend trying out that idea now :hmm3grin2orange:


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