# Stihl should be ashamed of themselves.



## SamT1 (Jan 25, 2022)

Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?
mine has sucked dirt since day one. I’ve tried some of the suggested “fixes” from members here. I’ve also tried to trade it and can’t get a new one. Can’t get a piston either.
this air filtration system is a failure in the real world. I’ve owned this saw a year. Somewhere around 300 cords on it (poor accounting I donno exactly) I’m shocked it still runs to be honest.
I need to order an aftermarket filter I guess, but would prefer to put a piston in at the same time.
I’ll admit I run saws like I stole them. But I’ve never seen a Stihl with this kinda issue. They would be in deep doo doo if these things were blowing up from dirty carbs and all the wood going though them. I’m guessing the average user doesn’t go through air filters too often. I think this is #5 I’ve put on this saw. Maybe I should just toss it on the shelf and put some panty hose over the hole.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Jan 25, 2022)

Have you tried an outwears cover? It would keep the fines from plugging up the pleats and eventually plugging the filter whereby the vacuum starts pulling dust past the filter seal.

The size of the dust on the handle is pretty small.... That would plug any filter in a hurry.


----------



## Woodslasher (Jan 25, 2022)

Maxflow makes foam filter kits for those, their website said they should be getting another batch in sometime in February so maybe see if you can pick up one of those.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 25, 2022)

CaseyForrest said:


> Have you tried an outwears cover? It would keep the fines from plugging up the pleats and eventually plugging the filter whereby the vacuum starts pulling dust past the filter seal.
> 
> The size of the dust on the handle is pretty small.... That would plug any filter in a hurry.


I’ve run chainsaws well over 20 years and never had this kinda issue. It’s Stihl’s problem not mine.
I’m all for modifying stuff, but having to modify it just to be right is BS. They need to recall and fix this. Never have I had a vehicle or device that an aftermarket air filter cleaned the air as good as stock.
I’d probably buy another because the thing is so light and mean, but I can’t even trade it because dealer doesn’t have one. (Hasn’t for 3 months) I’m fixing to be back to running a 440 when this looses compression from all the wood running through it.

If harbor freight sold something that had this kinda flaw, they would throw a spare piston in the box with it.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Jan 25, 2022)

Theres not much modification to a cover on the filter....

I believe this is the one that fits the Stihl Round Filters...






20-1114


WATER REPELLENT PRE-FILTER W/TOP



www.outerwears.com





Perhaps the saw doesnt do as good a job of preventing fines from getting to the filter as previous Stihls... I run these covers on all my Stihls and I never have to actually clean the filter. Nothing makes it to the filter.

If I was having as much of an issue as you, I would make it a point to clean the filter more often.

I have a 500 as well, it hasn't ingested any wood.


----------



## 3000 FPS (Jan 25, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?
> 
> I’ll admit I run saws like I stole them. But I’ve never seen a Stihl with this kinda issue. They would be in deep doo doo if these things were blowing up from dirty carbs and all the wood going though them. I’m guessing the average user doesn’t go through air filters too often. I think this is #5 I’ve put on this saw. Maybe I should just toss it on the shelf and put some panty hose over the hole.


Ok the panty hose cracked me up. Do they even still make those things. 
I do not own a 500i but have read a lot of reviews and most people seem to rant and rave about them. Maybe they do not use them like you do.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 25, 2022)

3000 FPS said:


> Ok the panty hose cracked me up. Do they even still make those things.
> I do not own a 500i but have read a lot of reviews and most people seem to rant and rave about them. Maybe they do not use them like you do.


I’ve learned that 95% of people don’t. I used to sell my tired worn out saws on eBay instead of rebuilding and I always had stellar reviews. 
Don’t get me wrong, this thing is light and has mega power. But it’s time Stihl recall them and fix this air filter. Like I said, if I could buy a piston I’d swap it and go again. But I can’t. 
im sure the filtration is fine for someone felling trees with it. But run 2 tanks of fuel through it every day in harsh conditions and the filter is a joke. I’ve run lots of other Stihl saws in the same conditions and never seen actual small chips beyond the filter.
An outerwear won’t fix it. The chips are coming in under the filter and around the center stud. The little click half turn deal doesn’t cut it for a pro saw, that a home owner deal
I won’t clean my air filter every couple tanks. Will just find something with a better design.


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 25, 2022)

From your picture, it looks pretty bad. Hard to believe that this is something common. Reviews are incredibly positive, yet you seem to have a special use or condition that is unique to the 1000s or 10,000s of other owners. Like I said hard to believe.


----------



## Jonny Quest (Jan 25, 2022)

SamT1: You have every right to be pi$$ed. A poor design on a pro-grade saw is bad ju-ju in this day and age. With the availability of the internet and almost unlimited access to information, one would think that this will come back and bite Stihl in the a$$. Shame that your dealer isn't helping more...

JQ


----------



## vision976 (Jan 25, 2022)

A couple of suggestions to improve the situation mentioned within this thread:





500i sucking dirt?


Does anyone else have trouble with stuff getting past the 500i air filter? Seems every time I change filters mine is an unacceptable level of dirty.




www.arboristsite.com


----------



## Pioneer (Jan 25, 2022)

I've seen a lot of other complaints about Stihl air filtration systems, in particular how fast the filters plug up because of how much sawdust gets to them. I can tell you that's the case with the ms250 as well, cutting very dry or dry rotted wood that throws a lot of dust will plug up the filter enough to change your carb settings in short time.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Jan 25, 2022)

Wonder why Echo isnt having these issues with their CS7310P, CS590, CS620P...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


----------



## esshup (Jan 26, 2022)

Try putting Vaseline on the sealing parts of the gasket on the filter and around the top where the hole for the center stud is. It might be leaking through there. 

Dolmar makes a larger air filter for their 7900, and it has a cloth oversleeve on it. Works great!!


----------



## PV Hiker (Jan 26, 2022)

PV Hiker said:


> I did some cutting in a burn area bucking trees off trail. The 500i air filter I added a bead of Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease between the filter and case. No black soot made it around that grease seal. The grease did not melt and flow like others will. It was suggested by my dealer.
> 
> The stock filter did a good job as I did not see any black soot behind the filter on the white housing.
> 
> ...


Expand to read and for link. Sucks you're having issues. Heard later models have tighter assembly. Vaseline will run when hot. This silicone grease will not.


----------



## link (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?
> mine has sucked dirt since day one. I’ve tried some of the suggested “fixes” from members here. I’ve also tried to trade it and can’t get a new one. Can’t get a piston either.
> this air filtration system is a failure in the real world. I’ve owned this saw a year. Somewhere around 300 cords on it (poor accounting I donno exactly) I’m shocked it still runs to be honest.
> I need to order an aftermarket filter I guess, but would prefer to put a piston in at the same time.
> I’ll admit I run saws like I stole them. But I’ve never seen a Stihl with this kinda issue. They would be in deep doo doo if these things were blowing up from dirty carbs and all the wood going though them. I’m guessing the average user doesn’t go through air filters too often. I think this is #5 I’ve put on this saw. Maybe I should just toss it on the shelf and put some panty hose over the hole.


You sound unhappy, perhaps even slightly bitter. 
Well, the best medicine for that is to put the useless one on the shelf, lift some weight at the gym and go spend a few dollas at the competitors.


----------



## rogue60 (Jan 26, 2022)

Looks good for a saw that's actually been used I don't see a problem myself?..

Now this is what you call letting fines through lol


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?
> mine has sucked dirt since day one. I’ve tried some of the suggested “fixes” from members here. I’ve also tried to trade it and can’t get a new one. Can’t get a piston either.
> this air filtration system is a failure in the real world. I’ve owned this saw a year. Somewhere around 300 cords on it (poor accounting I donno exactly) I’m shocked it still runs to be honest.
> I need to order an aftermarket filter I guess, but would prefer to put a piston in at the same time.
> I’ll admit I run saws like I stole them. But I’ve never seen a Stihl with this kinda issue. They would be in deep doo doo if these things were blowing up from dirty carbs and all the wood going though them. I’m guessing the average user doesn’t go through air filters too often. I think this is #5 I’ve put on this saw. Maybe I should just toss it on the shelf and put some panty hose over the hole.



Friend makes one you can run under your stock cover. Jason from ID. Here is his website. https://eganperformancesaws.com/products/air-filter-kit
Uni filters on his designed filter basket. 

Back when it was torture tested. Tester said no fines got through. Think they suggest using Bel-ray filter oil.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 26, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> Looks good for a saw that's actually been used I don't see a problem myself?..
> 
> Now this is what you call letting fines through lol
> View attachment 959566


How about this one that was local to me at a Friends shop.

Guy ran the winter filter year round.


----------



## cscltd (Jan 26, 2022)

Maybe when Stihl took Husqvarn’s ”Air Injection“ idea, the translation from Swedish to German got screwed up and thought it was suppose to be “Dirt Injection“


----------



## imalogger (Jan 26, 2022)

A logger I know just put some blue silicone on the base of his filters and then installed them on the saw. Pretty sure he just blew them off from the outside til he was ready to replace them.


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 26, 2022)




----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

esshup said:


> Try putting Vaseline on the sealing parts of the gasket on the filter and around the top where the hole for the center stud is. It might be leaking through there.
> 
> Dolmar makes a larger air filter for their 7900, and it has a cloth oversleeve on it. Works great!!


The vasoline and gun greace were the first couple things I tried after the first time I noticed. I think it makes it worse. I donno why, I’ve done that for years on various engines. Seems mine is getting worse as the half turn plastic thing is wearing.


----------



## angelo c (Jan 26, 2022)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Wonder why Echo isnt having these issues with their CS7310P, CS590, CS620P...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk


The next time I see one in a "pro" environment will be the first time...I'll give it a close "once over" then...


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

RedneckChainsawRepair said:


> Friend makes one you can run under your stock cover. Jason from ID. Here is his website. https://eganperformancesaws.com/products/air-filter-kit
> Uni filters on his designed filter basket.
> 
> Back when it was torture tested. Tester said no fines got through. Think they suggest using Bel-ray filter oil.
> ...


I saw that one on the thread mentioned above. I think they are still on back order. I’ll buy one when I can, if it doesn’t loose compression first.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

imalogger said:


> A logger I know just put some blue silicone on the base of his filters and then installed them on the saw. Pretty sure he just blew them off from the outside til he was ready to replace them.


Dang that’s what I need to do for now. I don’t know what I didn’t think of that.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Dang that’s what I need to do for now. I don’t know what I didn’t think of that.


Why not use grease?


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


>



The big issue is it looks like dust is coming under the filter. The small amount through the center hole is just frustrating not the big issue. Adding that washer would make it more likely to come in under the filter. Right now it has a rubber washer sandwiched between the filter and the lock now. Trying to put more force on the base.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> Why not use grease?


I tried that after first filter cleaning and it just makes it worse.


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> The big issue is it looks like dust is coming under the filter. The small amount through the center hole is just frustrating not the big issue. Adding that washer would make it more likely to come in under the filter. Right now it has a rubber washer sandwiched between the filter and the lock now. Trying to put more force on the base.



I took mine apart to see what the problem was. My filter fits very tightly around the outer circular part of the intake. I suppose it could loosen up, but a bit of hi-temp grease would solve that problem.

Looking at your first picture again, the actual amount of fine wood that is in the intake is minimal. It look bad because of all the debris against the face of the mount, but that is not filtered material and has no effects on the engine.

Basically, this is all much ado about nothing.


----------



## link (Jan 26, 2022)

If I had that problem with any of my "tiny" saws, I would have some car paste wax roughly with a brush on to the surrounding areas and use a silicone or other substance that turns in to a firm rubber when hardened - when mounting the filter - at all gaps. The wax makes it not stick to the surface so basically you make a custum rubber gasket. If you want it permanent, you only apply the wax to one side of the two surfaces, and clean the other surface with some bourbon. 
If you need to make it nice, I use cotton pins to remove any excess.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> I took mine apart to see what the problem was. My filter fits very tightly around the outer circular part of the intake. I suppose it could loosen up, but a bit of hi-temp grease would solve that problem.
> 
> Looking at your first picture again, the actual amount of fine wood that is in the intake is minimal. It look bad because of all the debris against the face of the mount, but that is not filtered material and has no effects on the engine.
> 
> Basically, this is all much ado about nothing.


I blew everything off before removing that filter. All that junk came in under the base seal. Fines getting through the filter is no problem at all. The filter isn’t sealing up.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I blew everything off before removing that filter. All that junk came in under the base seal. Fines getting through the filter is no problem at all. The filter isn’t sealing up.


Email Stihl with this problem and also give them a link to this here and see what they have to say about it.






STIHL USA Contact Form | STIHL Support


Get in touch with STIHL USA (STIHL Inc.) using the contact form on our support website.



support.stihl.com


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I blew everything off before removing that filter. All that junk came in under the base seal. Fines getting through the filter is no problem at all. The filter isn’t sealing up.



But it wasn't INSIDE the filter.


----------



## rob066 (Jan 26, 2022)

Face it Stihl air filters literally suck and will probably always suck.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> But it wasn't INSIDE the filter
> 
> 
> MontanaResident said:
> ...





MontanaResident said:


> But it wasn't INSIDE the filter.


Maybe by Bill Clinton’s definition, but by Sam’s it’s horribly nasty in the area the filter is supposed to keep really clean. Nastiest post filter intake area I have ever seen on a chainsaw. And it’s like that every time, though this one was the worst.


----------



## link (Jan 26, 2022)

Nothings perfect in this world except perhaps my 241cm, get creative or die trying.


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 26, 2022)

rob066 said:


> Face it Stihl air filters literally suck and will probably always suck.



They are greatly improved though. The filter on the ms290 was slightly better then what I use to drain spaghetti. The filter on the ms461 I cleaned regularly, but was going great after 5 years of use. The ms500i looks the same. How well it seals at the edges is what is in discussion, and from the picture it seems to be doing an okay job. Yeah, there is a whole lot of fine material around where the filter goes, but that is of no effect.


----------



## gyp69 (Jan 26, 2022)

As stated before MAXFLOW! End of your problems, especially in dry dusty conditions. They make a filter kit currently for the 500i.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 26, 2022)

gyp69 said:


> As stated before MAXFLOW! End of your problems, especially in dry dusty conditions. They make a filter kit currently for the 500i.





https://maxflowfilters.com/shop-all


----------



## Mad Professor (Jan 26, 2022)

But everyone was saying the 500 was the best thing since sliced bread!


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 26, 2022)

Mad Professor said:


> But everyone was saying the 500 was the best thing since sliced bread!


I would not rush to judgement just yet.I have one and its a nice saw but I need time to evaluate. Fantastic throttle response and great power to weight. People are too fast to judge things. Lets see .


----------



## rob066 (Jan 26, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> I would not rush to judgement just yet.I have one and its a nice saw but I need time to evaluate. Fantastic throttle response and great power to weight. People are too fast to judge things. Lets see .


But man for the price of a 500i a good air filter should be a no brainer. Most Stihl air filters from way back sucked fines in like swiss cheese has holes. My 461, I added a outer prefilter because of the inhalation of fines with the HD2 filter. I know the 461 doesnt have pre filtration. My old husky 254 SE and 272 cut way longer before filter cleanings without the fine intrusion.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 26, 2022)

rob066 said:


> But man for the price of a 500i a good air filter should be a no brainer. Most Stihl air filters from way back sucked fines in like swiss cheese has holes. My 461, I added a outer prefilter because of the inhalation of fines with the HD2 filter. I know the 461 doesnt have pre filtration. My old husky 254 SE and 272 cut way longer before filter cleanings without the fine intrusion.


I am going to see if this is a problem i just got the saw and only have 2 cords of wood cut.The 241's have great air filters,I been running them for years now.


----------



## rob066 (Jan 26, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> I am going to see if this is a problem i just got the saw and only have 2 cords of wood cut.The 241's have great air filters,I been running them for years now.


I get it. I do cut alot of bug infested dusty ash.


----------



## link (Jan 26, 2022)

rob066 said:


> I get it. I do cut alot of bug infested dusty ash.


What saw do you use to do that?


----------



## rob066 (Jan 26, 2022)

t.k said:


> What saw do you use to do that?


Almost every saw I own. From Husky 254s ,257, 272, A jonsered 2159. A stihl 461.251,


----------



## link (Jan 26, 2022)

rob066 said:


> Almost every saw I own. From Husky 254s ,257, 272, A jonsered 2159. A stihl 461.251,


As long as it dont come with a 14" bar I dont usually need it. But some guys do, may God bless them.


----------



## gyp69 (Jan 26, 2022)

This is a design Stihl should have improved on, it is messed up how much gets passed the hd2 filter, a maxflow is a must but it shouldn’t be that way on a 1300 dollar saw! Husky most definitely has them beat in the debris filter process. Overall quality Stihl is on top in my opinion but we all know what opinions are like.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

gyp69 said:


> This is a design Stihl should have improved on, it is messed up how much gets passed the hd2 filter, a maxflow is a must but it shouldn’t be that way on a 1300 dollar saw! Husky most definitely has them beat in the debris filter process. Overall quality Stihl is on top in my opinion but we all know what opinions are like.


My 441 needed cleaned half as often and never had anything beyond the filter. 
I cut dry dry mesquite so lots of dust and fines. Never had this issue and I’ve killed a lot of 036, ,360, 044, 440, 441 saws. Absolutely never seen stuff like this behind a filter.


----------



## rob066 (Jan 26, 2022)

I remember when the original HD had the foam that inside the air filter. That surely didnt last long with loggers.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 26, 2022)

rob066 said:


> I remember when the original HD had the foam that inside the air filter. That surely didnt last long with loggers.


I cleaned my foam every time. I still have some OG 440 filters with foam in them. Back when they Made stuff to last. I’d buy a spare filter, wash filters once a week and run the spare while it dried in the shop. What a concept.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Jan 26, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?


----------



## Canyon Angler (Jan 26, 2022)

Mad Professor said:


> But everyone was saying the 500 was the best thing since sliced bread!


No kidding...that air "filter" arrangement definitely feels like pretty weak sauce for "German engineering."

Looks more like "Kia engineering" or "Hyundai engineering" to me.

How much are those saws, like three grand? Seems like for that kind of jing, they could have spent another say 3 minutes on the air cleaner design...that arrangement really looks an afterthought. "Aw, jeez, we forgot the air filter again. OK, slap some molded plastic on there with a 90° twisty knobby thinger to hold the fukken thing on, we'll call it FasChange® or QikKleen™ yeah, they'll think we spent years at NASA doing the R&D on it."

I think I'd be tempted to cram a greased Chore Boy behind that mess and call it macaroni.


----------



## link (Jan 26, 2022)

Canyon Angler said:


> No kidding...that air "filter" arrangement definitely feels like pretty weak sauce for "German engineering."
> 
> Looks more like "Kia engineering" or "Hyundai engineering" to me.
> 
> ...


They are pretty good with metals though.
Pretty good with plastics also judging by the 15-20 years old 025 I have on my workbench.
The saw looked like it had participated at Omaha beach ww2 but the piston and cylinder looks like barely run in.
The saw has no doubt never been cleaned, but the airfilter is clean. I guess the owner has the right priorities.


----------



## Fuzy6525 (Jan 26, 2022)

It’s amazing how brilliant “engineer’s ” are on anything nowadays. Egghead sense but no common sense.


----------



## Dennisthemenace (Jan 27, 2022)

If in doubt just whack a maxi on it. I put them on all my "important" saws ie 088, 084s, 660s, 661, 461,and the similar one for the 462. Problem solved


----------



## Dennisthemenace (Jan 27, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> Looks good for a saw that's actually been used I don't see a problem myself?..
> 
> Now this is what you call letting fines through lol
> View attachment 959566


Now they are hard workin (661s?) saws. Redgum? Ever thought of bungin Maxflows on em? I like mine but my saws don't work nuthin like yours. What's your Dad reckon?


----------



## scallywag (Jan 27, 2022)

Here's one guy's solution.....


----------



## rogue60 (Jan 27, 2022)

Dennisthemenace said:


> Now they are hard workin (661s?) saws. Redgum? Ever thought of bungin Maxflows on em? I like mine but my saws don't work nuthin like yours. What's your Dad reckon?


Ironbark and no never bothered ever worrying about fines getting through as I've pulled down our saws over the years with couple thousand hrs on em with zero damage from fines must be the oil we run.


----------



## Swanman (Jan 27, 2022)

If in doubt just whack a maxi on it. I put them on all my "important" saws ie 088, 084s, 660s, 661, 461,and the similar one for the 462. Problem solved
I have been running an outerwears on my stock filter with pretty good success. I did make a rubber washer to go between the filter and the cover to add a little pressure to the seal. So far, the fines are staying out. I am sure that the max flow would be even better still. Here are a couple of pictures of my setup. This is after 2 tanks of fuel cutting dead Doug fir in winter.


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs (Jan 27, 2022)

I like Stihl, but they make the worse air filtration on their saws.


----------



## rwoods (Jan 27, 2022)

I have never been accused of proper maintenance, especially when it comes to chainsaw air filters, but all of this talk about fines and the 500i made me curious - so I took a couple pictures tonight of my 500i which I have had since October 2020 and probably 50 to 75 tanks ran through it with to my recollection only one thumping of the filter against a stump last spring. Despite my dull chains and mucho dead ash dust this is how it looks tonight. FWIW from what I see either mine is tighter than most, or some folks have a dud.

Small pile inside the opal but outside the sealing area.



The filter is rather brown.





Ron


----------



## bullittman281 (Jan 27, 2022)

Good evening.

We have one of these at work. They *ARE* awesome!! Because of this thread I had a closer look at how ours is doing. Its sucking dust. The first big problem is the stub that the filter and cover mount on. The little bitty foam ring is NOT enough. I bet thats where most of the crap gets through. The video on the previous page addresses that. The second is if its getting though the filter it self. Thats just bad. The filter itself looks good but that may no be the whole deal. Unacceptable at this price point and intent of the saw. My fix for crap elements on many things is K&N spray oil. Its the lightest, cheapest, crappiest air filter oil. Its perfect for this problem. WD40 or similar could do the same thing. Not sure long term affects on the filter but it WILL stop if from sucking dust though the filter element. It does eliminate field cleanings though. Not gonna just tap the dust out. Our 880 runs a similar looking element and it seems fine. They mount different. My gut says the worst of it is the foam washer is not nearly thick enough. A spacer under it or a second one maybe on top of the filter as well may be the best bet.


Bullittman


----------



## scallywag (Jan 28, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> Ironbark and no never bothered ever worrying about fines getting through as I've pulled down our saws over the years with couple thousand hrs on em with zero damage from fines* must be the oil we run.*


Or is it the amount of oil you run?


----------



## Dennisthemenace (Jan 28, 2022)

scallywag said:


> Or is it the amount of oil you run?


Betcha we are not the only blokes interested in Mr rogue60's answer to your question, lol


----------



## rogue60 (Jan 28, 2022)

scallywag said:


> Or is it the amount of oil you run?


25:1 mineral oil shock horror! lol
As I said never seen damage from fines myself and none of our saws got babied. tap the filter out and hit with air occasionally but we got very high hrs out of em.







That's me and dad late ish 70's yeah he loved his 090's. He was pissed when they stopped selling 090's in AU he reckons it was because Stihl wasn't making money selling new saws because the 090's go forever! lol


----------



## gyp69 (Jan 28, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> 25:1 mineral oil shock horror! lol
> As I said never seen damage from fines myself and none of our saws got babied. tap the filter out and hit with air occasionally but we got very high hrs out of em.
> View attachment 960065
> View attachment 960066
> ...


That’s a great pic of you and your dad! I bet you felt like a little badass holding that 090 while cutting! Piston looks good what mix oil do you use down there? I am not trying to start an oil thread just curious.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 28, 2022)

I had a bit yesterday evening while waiting for a customer to show up. 5 tanks of fuel since I put a rubber washer between the filter and half turn lock. It kept the stuff out from under the filter. Now just have way too many fines that I’m less worried about. I’m gonna silicone it down and order an aftermarket filter.


----------



## rogue60 (Jan 28, 2022)

gyp69 said:


> That’s a great pic of you and your dad! I bet you felt like a little badass holding that 090 while cutting! Piston looks good what mix oil do you use down there? I am not trying to start an oil thread just curious.


Nothing fancy used this for couple decades never had an oil related problem/failure and a crap ton of fines don't seem to bother anything? even with high silica content timber. burns clean for the hrs no carboned up exhaust ports excellent ring seal throughout a saws life. Run it at 25:1 and tuned in 090 076 066 660 661 088 880 hard-working work saws over the years.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 28, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> Nothing fancy used this for couple decades never had an oil related problem/failure and a crap ton of fines don't seem to bother anything? even with high silica content timber. burns clean for the hrs no carboned up exhaust ports excellent ring seal throughout a saws life. Run it at 25:1 and tuned in 090 076 066 660 661 088 880 hard-working work saws over the years.
> View attachment 960097


Will a 500I tune itself at 25:1? I’ve been running Stihl grey bottle at about 45:1, .9 gallons to a 2.6oz bottle. May try a tank at 2 bottles.


----------



## vision976 (Jan 28, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I had a bit yesterday evening while waiting for a customer to show up. 5 tanks of fuel since I put a rubber washer between the filter and half turn lock. It kept the stuff out from under the filter. Now just have way too many fines that I’m less worried about. I’m gonna silicone it down and order an aftermarket filter.


The video by Cotontop3 showed he placed the rubber washer under the factory foam washer, which would push the factory foam washer up tighter against the underside surface of the top of the filter, when locked in place. You placed your rubber washer on top of the filter rather than underneath it; I wonder if the washer location makes a difference in sealing ability?


----------



## stihlaficionado (Jan 28, 2022)

The first 500i's off the assembly line had a loose fitting air filter cover.
The fix was to double the foam washer that goes between the cover & the injector housing.

there is a vid on youtube on this.

I did it on mine & it worked perfectly.

Stihl was to have fixed that in later production runs. So my question is: When did you buy the saw?


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 28, 2022)

stihlaficionado said:


> The first 500i's off the assembly line had a loose fitting air filter cover.
> The fix was to double the foam washer that goes between the cover & the injector housing.
> 
> there is a vid on youtube on this.
> ...



Or what is the Date Of Manufacture. I bought my 500i in Sept21, yet the DOM is May21.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 28, 2022)

vision976 said:


> The video by Cotontop3 showed he placed the rubber washer under the factory foam washer, which would push the factory foam washer up tighter against the underside surface of the top of the filter, when locked in place. You placed your rubber washer on top of the filter rather than underneath it; I wonder if the washer location makes a difference in sealing ability?


My debris is coming in under the filter base. So adding a washer under the filter center stud would make that worse. I can tolerate the little coming in the center stud hole.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 28, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> Or what is the Date Of Manufacture. I bought my 500i in Sept21, yet the DOM is May21.


Bought January of 21.


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 28, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Bought January of 21.



DOM is on the sticker that is under the handle. AKA foot rest for starting. You should see the DOM just before displ: 79cc.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 28, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> DOM is on the sticker that is under the handle. AKA foot rest for starting. You should see the DOM just before displ: 79cc.


5.20


----------



## vision976 (Jan 28, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> So adding a washer under the filter center stud would make that worse


OK, so the dirt/fines was getting inside the injector housing from under the base of the filter, until you put the rubber washer above the filter top, causing a little more "down pressure" on the bottom of the filter... Makes sense... Except that I looked at my 500i's filter and it appears the lower surface of the filter is actually sealed to the injector housing by a two-lipped circumfrential rubber gasket seal, that seals agains the vertical edge of the cylinder portion of the injector housing. So a little more down pressure applied from the top of the filter, shouldn't affect the sealing properties of the circular seal, which is injection-molded into the hard plastic of the lower filter housing. That circular rubber seal on my filter is an interference fit, meaning the diameter of the hole in the seal is smaller than the outside of the vertical wall of the injector housing it slides over. It takes a bit of force to slide the filter down to where it is pressed against the flat portion of the injector house. 

If you had fines and dirt getting past that lower seal, then maybe the filter is/was defective. Maybe the rubber seal got hard over time, dried out from heat and just isn't doing the job it is supposed to be doing. Certainly applying a little of the recommended vacuum grease to the sealing surfaces would help it to slide home a little easier and reduce the chance of wear in the surface.

I've included pictures of the filter showing the injection molded rubber seal with the two edges, a picture of a straight edge atop the bottom of the filter showing light leaking past the molded seal and the hard plastic base of the filter housing. Last picture shows a dent in the shape of a ring in the foam washer on the stud which is supposed to seal that area under the filter top. I couldn't tell by looking at the picture you posted of the same foam washer atop the stud, that it was being compressed properly. At least I couldn't see a defined, crisp mark like on mine.

When I twist the locking nut on the stud, I can see the plastic cover bends in a little as the knob is rotated, and then springs back out when the nut goes over center. 

For sure the Max Flow after market filter looks like it will solve the problem if the stock one can't.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 28, 2022)

vision976 said:


> OK, so the dirt/fines was getting inside the injector housing from under the base of the filter, until you put the rubber washer above the filter top, causing a little more "down pressure" on the bottom of the filter... Makes sense... Except that I looked at my 500i's filter and it appears the lower surface of the filter is actually sealed to the injector housing by a two-lipped circumfrential rubber gasket seal, that seals agains the vertical edge of the cylinder portion of the injector housing. So a little more down pressure applied from the top of the filter, shouldn't affect the sealing properties of the circular seal, which is injection-molded into the hard plastic of the lower filter housing. That circular rubber seal on my filter is an interference fit, meaning the diameter of the hole in the seal is smaller than the outside of the vertical wall of the injector housing it slides over. It takes a bit of force to slide the filter down to where it is pressed against the flat portion of the injector house.
> 
> If you had fines and dirt getting past that lower seal, then maybe the filter is/was defective. Maybe the rubber seal got hard over time, dried out from heat and just isn't doing the job it is supposed to be doing. Certainly applying a little of the recommended vacuum grease to the sealing surfaces would help it to slide home a little easier and reduce the chance of wear in the surface.
> 
> ...


Find any fines in the throat when you opened it up?


----------



## vision976 (Jan 28, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> Find any fines in the throat when you opened it up?


No, but my saw is brand new and hasn't been used to cut anything, so no field experience to report on.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Jan 28, 2022)

rwoods said:


> I have never been accused of proper maintenance, especially when it comes to chainsaw air filters, but all of this talk about fines and the 500i made me curious - so I took a couple pictures tonight of my 500i which I have had since October 2020 and probably 50 to 75 tanks ran through it with to my recollection only one thumping of the filter against a stump last spring. Despite my dull chains and mucho dead ash dust this is how it looks tonight. FWIW from what I see either mine is tighter than most, or some folks have a dud.



Some guys seem to think that you need to take out the air filter after every tank and beat the sh!t out of it with an axe handle...I suspect they get more "fines" than most people.

I also hear people say that if you don't take out the filter element every 5 minutes and beat the sh!t out of it with an axe handle, you'll burn up your saw, but it seems like a plugged filter would choke the engine, not lean it out...


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 28, 2022)

After reading this thread, I took the cover off of the one we use every day just to see what the fuss was about and honestly, IT WAS CLEANER THAN ANY STIHL IVE EVER LOOKED AT! The old 460s and 461s were 1000 times worse than the new 500i.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 28, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> After reading this thread, I took the cover off of the one we use every day just to see what the fuss was about and honestly, IT WAS CLEANER THAN ANY STIHL IVE EVER LOOKED AT! The old 460s and 461s were 1000 times worse than the new 500i.


Check it again when you’ve run it enough to know what it looks like under the air filter.


----------



## Dennisthemenace (Jan 28, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> Nothing fancy used this for couple decades never had an oil related problem/failure and a crap ton of fines don't seem to bother anything? even with high silica content timber. burns clean for the hrs no carboned up exhaust ports excellent ring seal throughout a saws life. Run it at 25:1 and tuned in 090 076 066 660 661 088 880 hard-working work saws over the years.
> View attachment 960097


Great info from a man who really works his saws as compared to those of us (me!) who baby them. 
I've noticed that the older, more experienced blokes, ex hand fallers from when there was such a thing, aren't real finicky about oil brand but they stick to 25 /1.


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 28, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Check it again when you’ve run it enough to know what it looks like under the air filter.


Huh? Im pretty sure after over 50 years of being around chainsaws and using them for 45, that I know what it looks like under an air filter. There wasn't enough fines on the intake to even feel with my fingers, butterfly was spotless and so was the area behind the filter.
Saw was used when we got it and I doubt it had been cleaned recently, if at all. We have ran it 2 weeks now in the log woods and a thimble would have held the sawdust on the OUTSIDE of the filter.


----------



## gyp69 (Jan 28, 2022)

I was at a Stihl shop today, a good one that sells more saws than any other in their region, I mentioned to one of the owners when we were looking at a 500 that people were complaining about this issue (the filter) he told me that these saws were meant to be ran like a concrete cutoff saw, he says you aren’t supposed to take the filter off and knock it out every few tanks, you are supposed to leave the filter on and replace it every 3 months or so. 3 months for everyday falling and bucking scenario. This is what he told me.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 28, 2022)

gyp69 said:


> I was at a Stihl shop today, a good one that sells more saws than any other in their region, I mentioned to one of the owners when we were looking at a 500 that people were complaining about this issue (the filter) he told me that these saws were meant to be ran like a concrete cutoff saw, he says you aren’t supposed to take the filter off and knock it out every few tanks, you are supposed to leave the filter on and replace it every 3 months or so. 3 months for everyday falling and bucking scenario. This is what he told me.


So seal it up with silicone ,let dry and replace months later would be one solution?


----------



## gyp69 (Jan 28, 2022)

I should add before I get called an idiot and so forth that I am simply telling you what I was told by a Stihl dealer. I am a true blue maxflow guy myself


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 28, 2022)

gyp69 said:


> I was at a Stihl shop today, a good one that sells more saws than any other in their region, I mentioned to one of the owners when we were looking at a 500 that people were complaining about this issue (the filter) he told me that these saws were meant to be ran like a concrete cutoff saw, he says you aren’t supposed to take the filter off and knock it out every few tanks, you are supposed to leave the filter on and replace it every 3 months or so. 3 months for everyday falling and bucking scenario. This is what he told me.



There is a Swedish video during the early days of the 500i, and they ran some 100 liters of fuel thru the saw over a 3 month period, and never did any maintenance on it. The air filter was jammed with filth, yet when the filter was taken off for the camera, it looked remarkably clean down the throat of the intake. Again there is something going on with the OPs saw that is NOT typical of these 500i's.


----------



## KarlD (Jan 28, 2022)

I’ve run one for well over a year now and had zero issues with the filter. I keep my chains very sharp and generally cut live wood so I don’t bathe the saw in dust. I tap the filter ‘clean’ at the end of every week


----------



## rwoods (Jan 28, 2022)

Out of further curiosity about the effectiveness of Stihl filters, I took some pictures of my MS361 and my 036Pro. These pictures aren't for the faint at heart just fodder to the scientists among us. 

MS361

Outside after the cat knocked the saw over (some of the spillage can be seen on the cover and glove below the saw.



Filter removed - nice and clean. Doubtful that all would go through the carb if there had been infiltration around the filter.



036Pro - outside.



Inside - main throat area is clean but note the square inlet.



Filter looks to have oily fines inside.



Ron


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 28, 2022)

rwoods said:


> Out of further curiosity about the effectiveness of Stihl filters, I took some pictures of my MS361 and my 036Pro. These pictures aren't for the faint at heart just fodder to the scientists among us.
> 
> MS361
> 
> ...


Now THAT looks like every other stihl Ive ever had!


----------



## rogue60 (Jan 28, 2022)

If a filter needs tapping out our hit with air just do it it's not hard work complaining a filter needs cleaning after a few months is getting ridiculous lol I personally wouldn't go by what the manufacturers say if a filter needs cleaning clean it.
Cutting dry hardwoods ya tap the filter every tank of fuel no big deal.


----------



## Wow (Jan 28, 2022)

Jonny Quest said:


> SamT1: You have every right to be pi$$ed. A poor design on a pro-grade saw is bad ju-ju in this day and age. With the availability of the internet and almost unlimited access to information, one would think that this will come back and bite Stihl in the a$$. Shame that your dealer isn't helping more...
> 
> JQ


I'm old and slow. I don't run saws like I used to BUT.. I Do run my Echos and my Sthils sit in the barn..Sthil is like a beautiful girl that took her looks for granted..She never knew she was getting old until one day no one wanted her.. The technology in Echo keeps most of the dirt away from the air filters.. My Brother is a Sthil man. It's like a religion with them..Frankly,,,, I have never been one to be concerned about brand.. Nearly every brand has some lemon designs for EXAMPLE the cheesy chain catcher on Echo cs352.. BUT...i've only broke one off the side place and it was on a NEW saw.. Dealer basically said shove it.. I bought two replacements clutch covers, glued the old one with super glue then heat welded it and Bingo.. never broke again..TELL ME that NEW saw was NOT defective..Probably had a cracked chain catcher day ONE.. I might drop a chain while bucking in heavy brush once a year.. SO fans of Echo, don't bar b que me over MY OPINION......IT WAS; NOT my fault..ok..go tell momma if I made you mad,, Daddy don''t care.= Otherwise.. Have a great day...Smile.


----------



## Laslabjohn (Jan 28, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I saw that one on the thread mentioned above. I think they are still on back order. I’ll buy one when I can, if it doesn’t loose compression first.


Egan has them back in stock, Just ordered one and a strait shot.


----------



## Chris1044 (Jan 28, 2022)

KarlD said:


> I’ve run one for well over a year now and had zero issues with the filter. I keep my chains very sharp and generally cut live wood so I don’t bathe the saw in dust. I tap the filter ‘clean’ at the end of every week


Same experience with mine...1 year of use and probably 10-12 gals of fuel through it. I have an outerwears mesh and blow the filter off with light compressed air after long cutting weekends.

Ditto the chain sharpness. Mostly oak, pine, cottonwood cutting. I took mine off a few times initially because this "problem" was posted a year ago as well...never saw any issues. Haven't pulled the filter since, maybe if I cut this weekend I'll check.

Either way, still happy with my saw as of now.


----------



## Dennisthemenace (Jan 29, 2022)

rogue60 said:


> If a filter needs tapping out our hit with air just do it it's not hard work complaining a filter needs cleaning after a few months is getting ridiculous lol I personally wouldn't go by what the manufacturers say if a filter needs cleaning clean it.
> Cutting dry hardwoods ya tap the filter every tank of fuel no big deal.
> View attachment 960241
> View attachment 960242


Yep, a lot of this thread has been much ado about nuthin


----------



## gyp69 (Jan 29, 2022)

Dennisthemenace said:


> Yep, a lot of this thread has been much ado about nuthin


I agree however most threads are much ado about nothing. Just guys weighing in on this or that with their opinions, observations just blah blah blah blah, interesting to hear people’s opinions though.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 29, 2022)

Laslabjohn said:


> Egan has them back in stock, Just ordered one and a strait shot.


I’ll check that out.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 29, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I saw that one on the thread mentioned above. I think they are still on back order. I’ll buy one when I can, if it doesn’t loose compression first.


What is the compression reading of the saw ?


----------



## PV Hiker (Jan 29, 2022)

If the filter is dirty enough I'll spray from the inside a stream of non-chlorinated brake cleaner followed by gentle compressed air. 

Back side of the filter will apply a thin bead of Dow Corning silicone grease. Does not melt and run when hot. Helps seal back side of filter. It is just spendy for a tube. Tube will last a long time.

Interesting about the front small washer seal, I'll have a look and see how it is working on mine. 

I have had a clean throttle body with much cutting, some in bucking forest fire wood.

I believe the ones that posted as having fines getting past the filter would be accurate for their picticlur saw configuration and environment. Maybe the Silicone grease on back side along with improved washer on the top might help.

If not, for you seek out a aftermarket solution. For now mine is doing fine. If it wasn't I would be looking for a improvement.


----------



## GrizG (Jan 29, 2022)

Canyon Angler said:


>



Euell Gibbons... the health food/outdoors guy who died at 64.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Jan 30, 2022)

GrizG said:


> Euell Gibbons... the health food/outdoors guy who died at 64.


He shoulda used a MaxFlo! ;-)


----------



## GrizG (Jan 30, 2022)

Canyon Angler said:


> He shoulda used a MaxFlo! ;-)


He was a "guru" for healthy living and did TV commercials for Grape Nuts cereal in the early 70s. The irony of his dying at 64 was not lost on people even if the world wide web and social media didn't exist yet!


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 30, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> What is the compression reading of the saw ?


I haven’t checked it. But it’s not as strong running as it once was. I’d say it’s down to the HP level of my mastermind 441 I ran before. (That by the way never had anything behind the filter in the exact same conditions).
It needs traded or rebuilt. I’m a little scared of keeping something so electronic for long term. I did really good keeping the exterior looking nice so I could swap it and get atleast half my money back. But the little scuffs are starting to add up. I may need to try harder to find a piston and just mod it and run it till it’s done. Modded saws don’t trade good at all. I took a blood bath on my mastermind saw when I traded it, but I ran it too long.


----------



## Logger nate (Jan 30, 2022)

I realize everyone has different opinions but I can see why op is frustrated. Husky, echo, Sthil 441 and 462 seem to have much better air filtration and need cleaning way less. Would be frustrating to pay that much for the newest best saw and then have to pay $90 more for a usable air filter. I’m sure the 500 is a great saw but looks like they could have improved air filtration quite a bit.


----------



## SamT1 (Jan 30, 2022)

Logger nate said:


> I realize everyone has different opinions but I can see why op is frustrated. Husky, echo, Sthil 441 and 462 seem to have much better air filtration and need cleaning way less. Would be frustrating to pay that much for the newest best saw and then have to pay $90 more for a usable air filter. I’m sure the 500 is a great saw but looks like they could have improved air filtration quite a bit.


I’d have traded for a new one in December if my dealer had one. It’s a beast. I’ve run the hell out of it for a year. 4 air filters, spark plug, 1 fuel filter and a primer bulb. 50-60 gallons of fuel easy.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 30, 2022)




----------



## cookies (Jan 30, 2022)

g66 was so fat it was 4 stroking in the cut lol


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 30, 2022)

I could do a side by side by side by side by side between a 500i, a 660, a 572, a 390 and my hotrod 372xpw. However, Ive ran them all enough to know the 500i is most likely gonna come out on top. Im gonna actually do some more felling with the 500i this week just to get a better feel for it.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 30, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> I could do a side by side by side by side by side between a 500i, a 660, a 572, a 390 and my hotrod 372xpw. However, Ive ran them all enough to know the 500i is most likely gonna come out on top. Im gonna actually do some more felling with the 500i this week just to get a better feel for it.


I would think the 660 would pull a longer 36in bar better? What say you?


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 30, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> I would think the 660 would pull a longer 36in bar better? What say you?


It MIGHT outpull the 500i simply due to displacement and torque, it wont outpull the 390xp though. The longest bars I have at my disposal are 28". I MIGHT have a 32" husky bar around here somewhere, but I never use them.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 30, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> It MIGHT outpull the 500i simply due to displacement and torque, it wont outpull the 390xp though. The longest bars I have at my disposal are 28". I MIGHT have a 32" husky bar around here somewhere, but I never use them.


A 28 on them would be an interesting contest.


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 30, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> A 28 on them would be an interesting contest.


The 500 has a stihl 25? on it. The 572 has a 24.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 30, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> The 500 has a stihl 25? on it. The 572 has a 24.


That could make a decent comparison .


----------



## MontanaResident (Jan 30, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> The 500 has a stihl 25? on it. The 572 has a 24.



What Stihl calls a 25, everybody else calls a 24. Both are 84 drive links.


----------



## Huntaholic (Jan 30, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> That could make a decent comparison .


500i will take the 572s lunch money away. Its hard to explain, but theres a few spots in the felling process that the 572 still lacks a little on torque. Both of those saws are wearing equal length bars and chains and Ive used them both enough to feel the differences. Its just something about the way I cut timber, I cant explain it but the 572 will stall in spots the 500i doesn't. I have to "baby" the 572 more if that makes any sense? I cut on average around 2mil ft a year and yet I cant explain the things Im talking about lol.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 30, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> 500i will take the 572s lunch money away. Its hard to explain, but theres a few spots in the felling process that the 572 still lacks a little on torque. Both of those saws are wearing equal length bars and chains and Ive used them both enough to feel the differences. Its just something about the way I cut timber, I cant explain it but the 572 will stall in spots the 500i doesn't. I have to "baby" the 572 more if that makes any sense? I cut on average around 2mil ft a year and yet I cant explain the things Im talking about lol.


Sounds like the 500 has more overall power and torque. Thanks. That's a lot of cutting .


----------



## CDElliott (Jan 30, 2022)

Canyon Angler said:


> He shoulda used a MaxFlo! ;-)


Euell Gibbons died from a ruptured aortic aneurysm, which is a common complication of Marfan's syndrome. In addition to Marfan's, he was a smoker. His early childhood had been very hard and difficult both physically and mentally. Because of arthritis, he did not exercise much in his later years, which may have also contributed to his early death. A very interesting character.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Jan 31, 2022)

lone wolf said:


>



Wow!


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 31, 2022)

Air Filter Kit (Stihl 500 & 661) - New and Improved!!


New and Improved Air Filter Kit!! This filter kit is smaller than the previous model so there is now a gap between the filter and the oem filter cover. This allows for better airflow around the entire filter, and more time between filter cleanings (see photos). This air filter kit includes one...



eganperformancesaws.com





Im thinking about this, anyone have one on their saw?


----------



## Woodslasher (Jan 31, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> Air Filter Kit (Stihl 500 & 661) - New and Improved!!
> 
> 
> New and Improved Air Filter Kit!! This filter kit is smaller than the previous model so there is now a gap between the filter and the oem filter cover. This allows for better airflow around the entire filter, and more time between filter cleanings (see photos). This air filter kit includes one...
> ...


Looks like a knockoff Maxflow to me.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 31, 2022)

Woodslasher said:


> Looks like a knockoff Maxflow to me.


But you dont need another air filter cover it fits with the stock one right?


----------



## Woodslasher (Jan 31, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> But you dont need another air filter cover it fits with the stock one right?


Yes, but I seem to recall hearing of guys who ran the Maxflow elements under their original cover. I could be mis-remembering, though.


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 31, 2022)

Woodslasher said:


> Yes, but I seem to recall hearing of guys who ran the Maxflow elements under their original cover. I could be mis-remembering, though.


Well I ain't sure either ,lets see.


----------



## vision976 (Feb 1, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> My debris is coming in under the filter base. So adding a washer under the filter center stud would make that worse. I can tolerate the little coming in the center stud hole.


I was trying to figure out why the debris was getting by the base of the filter, since the filter base actually has a circular interference fit which should be airtight. Perhaps the filter media itself is blocked to the point where the vacuum force inside the engine inlet is pulling the debris by the rubber interference-fit seal.

Depending upon what type and size of foreign material that the filter is filtering, perhaps it is possible the filter is "plugged" and needs to be replaced, without appearing to be blocked.

I have a bank of two 20" sediment water filters to remove particulates in the water from our well. The first is a 20 micron spun polpropylene element, the second a 1 micron pleated polypropylene style element. I have 3 pressure gauges; one at the inlet to the filter bank a second between the two filters and a 3rd at the outlet side of the 2nd filter. So I can measure the pressure drop across each filter, when the water is turned on and flowing to tell when the filters need to replaced. Inlet pressure from the well is 65 PSI. The 20 micron clear polycarbonate filter housing fills with a brown sludge over the filter's useful life. The second filter housing remains clear with no visible evidence of any sort of accumulation of sludge. I just replaced the filters after a year of use. The 20 micron was showing about 15 PSI of pressure drop across it as the 2nd (middle) gauge showed 50 PSI compared to the 65 PSI inlet gauge. The 1 micron filter had a pressure drop of 40 PSI across it. Outlet water pressure was only10 PSI. (50 PSI - 10 = 40). It had reached the end of its useful service life.

What was odd was that the 1 micron pleated filter did not have any significant visual accumulation of particulates embedded in the filter, at least not to the naked eye. The filter was still white colored while the 20 micron filter surface was covered in brown muck. Yet the 1 micron media was so full of particulates it was causing a 40 PSI pressure drop. 

I don't know what size particles Stihl's filter media is designed to filter in microns, but if it is a good one and doing the job, your filter media might have been full of small enough fines to cause the larger debris to be drawn past the base interference-fit rubber seal. (since not enough air can be passed through the filter media to satisfy the engine's requirements. Just a hypothesis. Too bad you can't measure the pressure drop across the Stihl air filter to know if it is getting clogged.

Another clogged filter story; this one in a shop vac. We live off of a dirt surfaced rural county road. The soils here come from weathered basalt rock, which forms clays when it breaks down. The clay soils swell when they stay wet for very long and turn into a nasty gumbo mud which sticks to everything. During the transition from dry to wet season in fall, the vehicles carry into our garage, a goodly amount of muddy stuff that falls to the smooth concrete floor. I use a 10 inch sheet rock mudding blade to scrape the dried mud from the floor. Funny thing is, the mud turns to the absolute finest dust possible, very similar in size to sheet rock dust. This dust plugs a conventional shop vac filter in very little time. I use to remove that dust by using air from a compressor to blow the dust from filter's outside surface by shooting the air through from the inside. This was a messy, time-consuming job that happened all too frequently. My solution was to install a cyclonic filter above the vacuum's inlet, which seems to remove about 97% of the super fine clogging dust, before it can get to the shop vac filter. A little gets by, but the quantity is so small, the filter doens't get plugged and doesn't need to be cleaned for a very long time, like two or more years. 

I am aware that both Husqvarna and Stihl have designed into some of their models, a "cyclonic" type of air filtration system, which is intended to remove many of the larger particles. Looking at the pictures of the inside of your 500i inlet, I'd say Stihl's design doesn't seem to work very well. 

I found this on Youtube which demonstrates the differences in effectiveness between the two brand's cyclonic air filtering designs which are intended to keep larger, heavier particles away from the air filter.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 1, 2022)

rob066 said:


> But man for the price of a 500i a good air filter should be a no brainer. Most Stihl air filters from way back sucked fines in like swiss cheese has holes. My 461, I added a outer prefilter because of the inhalation of fines with the HD2 filter. I know the 461 doesnt have pre filtration. My old husky 254 SE and 272 cut way longer before filter cleanings without the fine intrusion.





Canyon Angler said:


> Some guys seem to think that you need to take out the air filter after every tank and beat the sh!t out of it with an axe handle...I suspect they get more "fines" than most people.
> 
> I also hear people say that if you don't take out the filter element every 5 minutes and beat the sh!t out of it with an axe handle, you'll burn up your saw, but it seems like a plugged filter would choke the engine, not lean it out...


Rob just wanted to agree on the old 272 s
They had a great filter setup. I have low tops. Very rare they even need cleaning. Last one I had apart I hit the small mesh openings with brake cleaner and reinstalled. Helluva setup they had. 

canyon yeah you’re right. A dirty air filter will cause you to run hog rich from my experience.


----------



## Woodsman_26 (Feb 1, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Maybe by Bill Clinton’s definition, but by Sam’s it’s horribly nasty in the area the filter is supposed to keep really clean. Nastiest post filter intake area I have ever seen on a chainsaw. And it’s like that every time, though this one was the worst.


Nice reference, made me have a good chuckle.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Feb 1, 2022)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Chinese trash companies aren't going to put hundreds of millions of dollars into R&D and coming up with the new greatest thing in chainsaws.


Ya mean like the "hundreds of millions" Stihl obviously spent on R&D on the 500i air filter? 

(Whoa, that was weird...I went to quote Charlie and somehow the quote ended up in another thread...)


----------



## Chris1044 (Feb 1, 2022)

Canyon Angler said:


> Ya mean like the "hundreds of millions" Stihl obviously spent on R&D on the 500i air filter?
> 
> (Whoa, that was weird...I went to quote Charlie and somehow the quote ended up in another thread...)


At least we can be confident that Stihl ran the saw through a DVP test plan...

People saying the filter is faulty is likely part quality issues (dimensional), assembly issues, or people getting dirt into the area while pulling the filter off.

I'm not saying the design of airflow around the filter is the best, nor am I saying the filter is the best. But I will guarantee Stihl has hard data showing the filtration system passes their internal test standards.

And while Chinese sometimes do engineer, my experience is that they copy. No knock to them as it's almost a point of pride for their culture...and sadly seems to be working for them.


----------



## KarlD (Feb 1, 2022)

How long do we have to wait for all of these 500i’s with their shocking air filters to fail…have any done so yet that we know of? If it was as bad as some think it is I’m surprised any are running for longer than a few tanks. One thing we can be absolutely sure of is that with the 500i being the current king of the saws there are many people desperate to report and share failures. I’ve heard nothing…


----------



## lone wolf (Feb 1, 2022)

KarlD said:


> How long do we have to wait for all of these 500i’s with their shocking air filters to fail…have any done so yet that we know of? If it was as bad as some think it is I’m surprised any are running for longer than a few tanks. One thing we can be absolutely sure of is that with the 500i being the current king of the saws there are many people desperate to report and share failures. I’ve heard nothing…


Well I just got one so it might take months. Sure does run good.


----------



## EchoRomeoCharlie (Feb 1, 2022)

vision976 said:


> I am aware that both Husqvarna and Stihl have designed into some of their models, a "cyclonic" type of air filtration system, which is intended to remove many of the larger particles. Looking at the pictures of the inside of your 500i inlet, I'd say Stihl's design doesn't seem to work very well.
> 
> I found this on Youtube which demonstrates the differences in effectiveness between the two brand's cyclonic air filtering designs which are intended to keep larger, heavier particles away from the air filter.



Sorry, but that video is rigged. Notice they don't show you the husky filter beforehand like they do the Stihl filter. Notice how both saws are running prior to the video starting. Notice that the Stihl saw is actually sucking saw dust into the flywheel like a normal saw would but the pile of sawdust by the Husky saw never moves....at all....

Yeah...they either blocked off the inside of the husky saw, broke off all the cooling fins on the flywheel or removed it all together. ******** video. There's no way that husky saw wouldn't suck in and move that saw dust around to a significant degree.


----------



## EchoRomeoCharlie (Feb 1, 2022)

KarlD said:


> How long do we have to wait for all of these 500i’s with their shocking air filters to fail…have any done so yet that we know of? If it was as bad as some think it is I’m surprised any are running for longer than a few tanks. One thing we can be absolutely sure of is that with the 500i being the current king of the saws there are many people desperate to report and share failures. I’ve heard nothing…


Same.

I know a few guys that have had 500i's in service on tree removal crews for quite a while without much issue. It's not like these guys are taking real god care of them either. They're treated like the rest of the crew saws...they're definitely not dropping like flies as the people in this thread would have you believe. 

I ran 5 tanks through mine without cleaning just to test it and saw no performance decrease. Yes, filter had plenty of sawdust in it (that's what it's there for), no saw dust or debris in the throat at all. Nocked the filter out on my bench and re-installed. 

Works for me.


----------



## vision976 (Feb 1, 2022)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> saw dust around to a significant degr


Yeah, I thought it might be rigged, too. You might be right. Hell, most guys have so much brand allegiance that they suffer from "Cognative Bias" which prevents them from accepting an alternative perspective.

An effective "cyclonic separation system" takes quite a bit of volume to be effective. Neither the Husky or Stihl systems have enough volume or the required shape to be really effective in my opinion. Just because you can take an air source and entrain particulates into the airflow, such that some are thrown out through a vent, while the air takes a 90 degree turn to wherever it needs to go, doesn't make it a "cyclonic air filter". I get the Husky/Stilhl concept and it probably works to an extent, but not nearly as effective as a true cyclonic separator system as produced by an Oneida cyclonic filtration system. Oneida's system works because the particulates hit a solid plastic surface and are slowed by the impact against the wall of the cone-shaped container they are piped into, and then the force of gravity causes the particulates to fall down, into the catch container below. Neither the Husky or Stihl "cyclonic" filtration systems provide a "gravity assisted exit path to capture the particulates. They just eject them upwards which can't be nearly as affective as a opened-ended cone shaped container to allow the particulates to be removed by gravity.

https://www.oneida-air.com/anti-sta...MI1IGejovg9QIVuBPUAR3lRgJ7EAQYASABEgJB4vD_BwE

This "cyclonic separation" method is used in many industries to separate particulates from gases.









Cyclonic separation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Neithrer Husquvarna's or Stihl's particulate separation solutions truly fit the cyclonic separation methodology. 

Yeah, the video was bogus in my opinion as well. Such is what happens when "Brand Allegiance" is allowed to supercede physics.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Feb 2, 2022)

vision976 said:


> This "cyclonic separation" method is used in many industries to separate particulates from gases.



I made one of those cyclones out of a couple of 5-gallon buckets for my shop vac (I do woodworking and produce a LOT of sawdust) and it works pretty well. I copied this guy's method with a couple of modifications and it's pretty straightforward:




Definitely saves $ on buying new shop vac bags, since only a tiny fraction of the debris actually goes into the shop vac itself. The cost for parts is less than $30. The only thing you need to watch out for is junk clogging the hose ... if that happens, you'd better be quick on the OFF switch because the vacuum will collapse the buckets!


----------



## Huntaholic (Feb 2, 2022)

vision976 said:


> Yeah, I thought it might be rigged, too. You might be right. Hell, most guys have so much brand allegiance that they suffer from "Cognative Bias" which prevents them from accepting an alternative perspective.
> 
> An effective "cyclonic separation system" takes quite a bit of volume to be effective. Neither the Husky or Stihl systems have enough volume or the required shape to be really effective in my opinion. Just because you can take an air source and entrain particulates into the airflow, such that some are thrown out through a vent, while the air takes a 90 degree turn to wherever it needs to go, doesn't make it a "cyclonic air filter". I get the Husky/Stilhl concept and it probably works to an extent, but not nearly as effective as a true cyclonic separator system as produced by an Oneida cyclonic filtration system. Oneida's system works because the particulates hit a solid plastic surface and are slowed by the impact against the wall of the cone-shaped container they are piped into, and then the force of gravity causes the particulates to fall down, into the catch container below. Neither the Husky or Stihl "cyclonic" filtration systems provide a "gravity assisted exit path to capture the particulates. They just eject them upwards which can't be nearly as affective as a opened-ended cone shaped container to allow the particulates to be removed by gravity.
> 
> ...


I have no "cognitive bias" as you put it. Ive always ran Husqvarna saws because pound for pound stihl has never made ANYTHING that would compare until now. Im so "biased" that I have a brand new, never even fueled 390xp that I would trade and give boot for a 500i. THAT is how impressed I am with this new stihl! I looked on fleabay, baileys, etc... and a new 390xp is $1200 and up. Anybody that wants mine for $1000 can have it and I will go straight to my local stihl dealer and buy a 500i TODAY.


----------



## GrizG (Feb 2, 2022)

vision976 said:


> I found this on Youtube which demonstrates the differences in effectiveness between the two brand's cyclonic air filtering designs which are intended to keep larger, heavier particles away from the air filter.



I'm wondering if the sheer volume of debris they threw at the saw simply overwhelmed the Stihl's ability to pass it through... In my worst case scenario of milling I've never had that many chips or that much dust enter the vents on the recoil starter so I'm not sure such a test proves anything anyway.


----------



## Joisey (Feb 2, 2022)

Years back I bought a new McCulloch chainsaw, don't remember the model other than it had the built in sharpener. 

The saw ran fantastic. An all around joy, until the air filter, which was mounted immediately behind the chain sprocket packed with chips and stalled the saw. Had to stop every half tank of gas to clean the filter so the saw didn't choke.

Would a thin sheet of rubber cut to fit under the filter give enough preload to seal the dust out? Not familiar at all with your saw.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Feb 3, 2022)




----------



## GrizG (Feb 3, 2022)

The 500i filter appears to be the same one as used on the 661 based on a Google search. That makes me wonder if the mounting stud and thumb nut related components from a 661 could be put on the 500i.


----------



## cookies (Feb 23, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?
> mine has sucked dirt since day one. I’ve tried some of the suggested “fixes” from members here. I’ve also tried to trade it and can’t get a new one. Can’t get a piston either.
> this air filtration system is a failure in the real world. I’ve owned this saw a year. Somewhere around 300 cords on it (poor accounting I donno exactly) I’m shocked it still runs to be honest.
> I need to order an aftermarket filter I guess, but would prefer to put a piston in at the same time.
> I’ll admit I run saws like I stole them. But I’ve never seen a Stihl with this kinda issue. They would be in deep doo doo if these things were blowing up from dirty carbs and all the wood going though them. I’m guessing the average user doesn’t go through air filters too often. I think this is #5 I’ve put on this saw. Maybe I should just toss it on the shelf and put some panty hose over the hole.


I have seen 500i cutoff saw piston rings for sale on ebay, the bore is 54mm, here is a p/c kit








Stihl Ms 500i Cylinder And Piston Kit New Oem 11470201200


Stihl Ms 500i Cylinder And Piston Kit New Oem 11470201200




sawagain.com


----------



## MontanaResident (Feb 23, 2022)

This thread is full of Gloom&Doom about the injectors failing. No basis on this, but repeated again and again, that it starts to take on a life.

Here is a response to a YouTube question, that pretty much answers the question once and for all.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 6, 2022)

That's why I bought a Makita EA6100P. And next saw will be 3120xp or Echo CS-1201. Just because I want to own at least once a big f....g 2 stroke gas saw! 
Although I have a Stihl shop 5 minutes away from my house!


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 6, 2022)

Im impressed enough with the saws that as soon as I can sell a same as new 390xp, (its only cut 2 trees down and one log into) I WILL be buying another 500i to replace it. Anybody that wants a 390xp same as new, for 800 bucks plus shipping, let me know.


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 6, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> Im impressed enough with the saws that as soon as I can sell a same as new 390xp, (its only cut 2 trees down and one log into) I WILL be buying another 500i to replace it. Anybody that wants a 390xp same as new, for 800 bucks plus shipping, let me know.


I though those were good saws? Keep it for backup no?


----------



## arborist (Mar 6, 2022)

CaseyForrest said:


>



I don't work on my own saws but I don't have to, to know there's nothing good about that photo lol. You don't need to know much about how saws operate to understand that if Stihl doesn't do something to prevent that, those saws wont last long. They just wont.
It doesn't make no difference if it's a pro grade saw by a large co. or a China knock off. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and nothing about that is right............for any saw. Let alone a pro saw.


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 6, 2022)

arborist said:


> I don't work on my own saws but I don't have to, to know there's nothing good about that photo lol. You don't need to know much about how saws operate to understand that if Stihl doesn't do something to prevent that, those saws wont last long. They just wont.
> It doesn't make no difference if it's a pro grade saw by a large co. or a China knock off. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and nothing about that is right............for any saw. Let alone a pro saw.


I dont see any sawdust in the throat just on the outside of the filter sealing area. It seals on the round part not the flat one you think.


----------



## arborist (Mar 6, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> I dont see any sawdust in the throat just on the outside of the filter sealing area. It seals on the round part not the flat one you think.


I don't either. It just makes you wonder, is it just a matter of time or a sudden change of temp until she sucks in the dust? It would make me nervous, if that were my saw. Not you?


----------



## CaseyForrest (Mar 6, 2022)

I don’t see an issue. As wolf pointed out, the filter on this saw doesn’t seal to the rectangular base. It seals using a rubber grommet to the round portion of the intake. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KarlD (Mar 6, 2022)

It’s a non-issue. Where are all the failed 500i’s that such an awful air filter design should lead to? Oh yeah…there aren’t any


----------



## arborist (Mar 6, 2022)

CaseyForrest said:


>



Oh , I see what you guys are saying. So it only seals right around the carb opening, so naturally there would be sawdust under and around the rest.
Still, the inside of the filter needs to be free of sawdust. Looking at this guys filter at the where it does seal and inside the filter, the sawdust around the seal and what appears to be sawdust down inside, doesn't concern you? You're not saying if that's sawdust, that the small amount seen here is an "acceptable" amount of sawdust allowed to go down the carb are you?

When I look at that round part that is supposed to do the sealing, it has that "aged" sawdust look to it. Know what I mean? Leading me to believe the seal was not a 100% seal while on the saw. That's dust that's been there on the seal for a while. Not fresh powder. Meaning, I don't think that came from out around the area from when he pulled the filter off. If that were a true seal, the inner part of the round part, should be perfectly clean as well as not so much a flake down inside either of course. Agree?


----------



## CaseyForrest (Mar 6, 2022)

Are you referring to the OPs pictures?


----------



## arborist (Mar 6, 2022)

CaseyForrest said:


> Are you referring to the OPs pictures?


Post # 140 back a page. By member:
CaseyForrest​
Oh. Yours lol. That's you. 






Stihl should be ashamed of themselves.


https://eganperformancesaws.com/products/air-filter-kit Im thinking about this, anyone have one on their saw?




www.arboristsite.com


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 6, 2022)

lone wolf said:


> I though those were good saws? Keep it for backup no?


Its a GREAT saw! Problem is, its heavier than the 500i, I don't think it will outcut the 500i, and I most likely wont ever use it. Another thing, if I sell the 390, I can deduct the 500i so its a win/win situation. 
Ive posted it before, but I don't need 10 years out of a saw, if it lasts me a year its paid for itself. I am not in the least bit concerned about the imaginary issues some folks are having with the 500i and its filtration. My local dealer has sold 70 or so of them since they first came out and not a single saw has came back for repairs that wasn't crushed, ran over, hit by a tree, etc... NOT ONE WARRANTY ISSUE!


----------



## lone wolf (Mar 6, 2022)

arborist said:


> I don't either. It just makes you wonder, is it just a matter of time or a sudden change of temp until she sucks in the dust? It would make me nervous, if that were my saw. Not you?


Well I just bought one and am going to be keeping an eye on that. They have afterrmarket filters that are said to fix that issue if it did develop so its not like a major problem I am thinking.


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 6, 2022)

arborist said:


> I don't work on my own saws but I don't have to, to know there's nothing good about that photo lol. You don't need to know much about how saws operate to understand that if Stihl doesn't do something to prevent that, those saws wont last long. They just wont.
> It doesn't make no difference if it's a pro grade saw by a large co. or a China knock off. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and nothing about that is right............for any saw. Let alone a pro saw.



Wow! It's like those tiny bits of dust, outside of the filter are really grenades. 

Get Some!

*Prozac *--> You <-- *Prozac *


----------



## arborist (Mar 6, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> Wow! It's like those tiny bits of dust, outside of the filter are really grenades.
> 
> Get Some!
> 
> *Prozac *--> You <-- *Prozac *


Good analogy. Things down a carb, makes a saw go boom boom. Do these pills you suggest, come in orange too?


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 6, 2022)

arborist said:


> Good analogy. *Things down a carb, makes a saw go boom boom*. Do these pills you suggest, come in orange too?



Yeah, its called an engine. Air+Fuel down the carb, and it goes boom, boom boom per revolution. 

As far as the happy-pills go, I wouldn't know. After you get your prescription filled tell us how much better you feel. You might feel a bit dopey, but closer to reality.


----------



## matt_lamb_160 (Mar 6, 2022)

Andyshine77 said:


> The base isn't how it seals, there's a radial rubber seal, that's not where dust is getting in.
> 
> My finger is on the seal in the pic.


----------



## Canyon Angler (Mar 7, 2022)

Dis thread needs MOAR COWBELL


----------



## Okie294life (Mar 8, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I tried that after first filter cleaning and it just makes it worse.


Vacuum grease. When dudes couldn’t get a seal on respirators in the oilfield because of their beard they’d put some of this on to make a seal. If it would work on that application sure it would work to seal an air filter.


----------



## PV Hiker (Mar 9, 2022)

Okie294life said:


> Vacuum grease. When dudes couldn’t get a seal on respirators in the oilfield because of their beard they’d put some of this on to make a seal. If it would work on that application sure it would work to seal an air filter.



See post 14 https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/stihl-should-be-ashamed-of-themselves.357516/post-7661765
I use it on the back side of my filter with the 500i as a prevention from the start.
.


----------



## link (Mar 9, 2022)

Seems like the recently educated super head of the class engenious engineers at Stihl have a lesson or two to learn about real life. 
Thats what happens when you live inside your computer, and doesn't bother to check it out how it actually works.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 10, 2022)

link said:


> Seems like the recently educated super head of the class engenious engineers at Stihl have a lesson or two to learn about real life.
> Thats what happens when you live inside your computer, and doesn't bother to check it out how it actually works.


Or maybe they don't give a $hit. After all it's about making money. Sell the chainsaw for good money ,charge the customer in the near future for important parts just to use the product... OR, please buy another product of ours  
Not sure it will work again...


----------



## Chris1044 (Mar 10, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> Or maybe they don't give a $hit. After all it's about making money. Sell the chainsaw for good money ,charge the customer in the near future for important parts just to use the product... OR, please buy another product of ours
> Not sure it will work again...


Or just maybe they know how to remove a filter without dropping dust inside?


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 10, 2022)

Its a non issue! Tell ya what, if anybody wants to PM me a cell number to send a pic to so you can post it, I will go outside right now, pull my 3?4? week old 500i out of the truck, pop the cover off, and send you a pic to post right here. Ive probably cut 75000 ft or so with it now and Ive yet to take the cover off and look at the filter so you will be seeing it for the 1st time just like me. I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH THE FILTRATION AT ALL! Put up or shut up! as they say.


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 10, 2022)

All I hear is crickets, I guess that answers the question about filtration. I was willing to put up or shut up about it, thing is, nobody else seems to be willing.


----------



## Chris1044 (Mar 10, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> All I hear is crickets, I guess that answers the question about filtration. I was willing to put up or shut up about it, thing is, nobody else seems to be willing.


I will put up also...but I'm on your side and am merely a hobbiest, so Saturday for pics from me if desired.


----------



## RogerD (Mar 11, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I’ve run chainsaws well over 20 years and never had this kinda issue. It’s Stihl’s problem not mine.
> I’m all for modifying stuff, but having to modify it just to be right is BS. They need to recall and fix this. Never have I had a vehicle or device that an aftermarket air filter cleaned the air as good as stock.
> I’d probably buy another because the thing is so light and mean, but I can’t even trade it because dealer doesn’t have one. (Hasn’t for 3 months) I’m fixing to be back to running a 440 when this looses compression from all the wood running through it.
> 
> If harbor freight sold something that had this kinda flaw, they would throw a spare piston in the box with it.


Recalls are for safety issues that involve the Feds. This would be more of a service bulletin type of thing.


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 11, 2022)

OH ITS HORRIBLE! AWFUL I TELL YOU! Even though nobody has called my bluff on it, I just now went out and took the cover off my 500i and took pictures as I went. Keep in mind I haven't even took the plastic cover off until just now. There was MAYBE 1/4 THIMBLE full of dust on the outside of the filter. After carefully removing the filter so as not to disturb what was on the intake plate, I could gather up what SUPER SUPER FINE dust there was, lay it on a mirror, work it into a line with a razor blade AND SNORT IT UP MY NOSE AND NEVER EVEN SNEEZE! Husqvarnas have always had superior filtration up til now, now they are behind the game! A 460 or 461 would have had enough dust in it to not even see the filter and enough fines in the intake and on the butterfly to choke a junkie and we all know how long those saws held up and ran. This new saw got it right in all respects and I will freely admit it and jump ships to the 500i Stihl. NOBODY is as much of a diehard Husqvarna man as me, but Ive always said when Stihl could make a saw that pound for pound would outcut a husky, I would buy one and that's exactly what I have done.


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 11, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> OH ITS HORRIBLE! AWFUL I TELL YOU! Even though nobody has called my bluff on it, I just now went out and took the cover off my 500i and took pictures as I went. Keep in mind I haven't even took the plastic cover off until just now. There was MAYBE 1/4 THIMBLE full of dust on the outside of the filter. After carefully removing the filter so as not to disturb what was on the intake plate, I could gather up what SUPER SUPER FINE dust there was, lay it on a mirror, work it into a line with a razor blade AND SNORT IT UP MY NOSE AND NEVER EVEN SNEEZE! Husqvarnas have always had superior filtration up til now, now they are behind the game! A 460 or 461 would have had enough dust in it to not even see the filter and enough fines in the intake and on the butterfly to choke a junkie and we all know how long those saws held up and ran. This new saw got it right in all respects and I will freely admit it and jump ships to the 500i Stihl. NOBODY is as much of a diehard Husqvarna man as me, but Ive always said when Stihl could make a saw that pound for pound would outcut a husky, I would buy one and that's exactly what I have done.



Sounds just awful. 

Document the rebuild. With that much saw dust flowing thru the saw there should be ample evidence to start a class action lawsuit against Stihl -- Total Refund and Punitive Damages.... Rudy Giuliani are you looking for work??? Don't wait for the evidence, just start the court filings.


----------



## GrizG (Mar 11, 2022)

Another 500i fan... another favorite issue.


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 11, 2022)

Dust around the flippy caps is way more of an issue than dust getting past the filter.


----------



## arborist (Mar 11, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> Dust around the flippy caps is way more of an issue than dust getting past the filter.


You do know there's a fuel filter down in there, right?


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 12, 2022)

arborist said:


> You do know there's a fuel filter down in there, right?


WOW! REALLY? LOL Yeah, and that filter will stop up way before theres an issue related to the air filter.


----------



## PV Hiker (Mar 12, 2022)

I have a old round paint brush that I use around the fuel and oil caps. When you flip up the cap you can get more sawdust removed before opening the caps. Something simple and fast prevents crap going into the tanks in the first place.

Popping open the caps when packed with sawdust is just asking for service down the road.
.


----------



## GrizG (Mar 12, 2022)

PV Hiker said:


> I have a old round paint brush that I use around the fuel and oil caps. When you flip up the cap you can get more sawdust removed before opening the caps. Something simple and fast prevents crap going into the tanks in the first place.
> 
> Popping open the caps when packed with sawdust is just asking for service down the road.
> .


I have a shop rag in my tote that I use to wipe the caps and the area around them before removing the caps. I also wipe the o-rings and sides of the caps off after I remove them from the tanks to remove any debris there. Yes, it takes a few moments to do this but it's quicker and cheaper than the alternatives of a saw that won't run and a new filter.


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 13, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> All I hear is crickets, I guess that answers the question about filtration. I was willing to put up or shut up about it, thing is, nobody else seems to be willing.


Month old saw, who cares. Call me when you get the first piston worn out.


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 13, 2022)

RogerD said:


> Recalls are for safety issues that involve the Feds. This would be more of a service bulletin type of thing.


Looks like there was a parts issue on the early serial number saws and they have improved it, but chose to not fix the old ones.
I got good life out of mine in spite of the issue. But I’m guessing it’s about half what I I should have done on piston #1. I’m gonna put a meteor in it I guess. Not willing to spend the money for the Stihl kit with piston and jug.


----------



## Chris1044 (Mar 14, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Looks like there was a parts issue on the early serial number saws and they have improved it, but chose to not fix the old ones.
> I got good life out of mine in spite of the issue. But I’m guessing it’s about half what I I should have done on piston #1. I’m gonna put a meteor in it I guess. Not willing to spend the money for the Stihl kit with piston and jug.


So you have a 500 which is low on compression after _____ hours?

Curious how much a piston/ring and jug cost? I would think availability is a real problem on them as well


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 14, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> Its a non issue! Tell ya what, if anybody wants to PM me a cell number to send a pic to so you can post it, I will go outside right now, pull my 3?4? week old 500i out of the truck, pop the cover off, and send you a pic to post right here. Ive probably cut 75000 ft or so with it now and Ive yet to take the cover off and look at the filter so you will be seeing it for the 1st time just like me. I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH THE FILTRATION AT ALL! Put up or shut up! as they say.


It hapened to me too today. The air filter somehow got loose or maybe I didn't screw it tight enough... If I ruined the Makita EA6100P cylinder or everything inside ,that's that... Although I use Motul 2T 800 offroad in it. Maybe it's not all destroyed. Doesn't sounds different and was used only half an hour... But it was "kind of" dusty along with oily stuff at the "entrance into carburettor"...
This air filtration must be chequed frequently since they're 2 stroke engines and any dust sucked inside the engine would act like grinding paste on all components inside the engine... Gave it a good clean up ,hope it's ok ,barely used 3 tanks of gas


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 14, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> It hapened to me too today. The air filter somehow got loose or maybe I didn't screw it tight enough... If I ruined the Makita EA6100P cylinder or everything inside ,that's that... Although I use Motul 2T 800 offroad in it. Maybe it's not all destroyed. Doesn't sounds different and was used only half an hour... But it was "kind of" dusty along with oily stuff at the "entrance into carburettor"...
> This air filtration must be chequed frequently since they're 2 stroke engines and any dust sucked inside the engine would act like grinding paste on all components inside the engine... Gave it a good clean up ,hope it's ok ,barely used 3 tanks of gas


Chances are your saw is fine. A little oily dirty residue is perfectly normal and Ive seen it in every saw Ive ever ran except this Stihl and its SPOTLESS. 
As to the poster who said "its a month old saw, get back to me when you've wore a piston out", Id be willing to bet that unless you mill with yours or cut professionally, my month old saw already has more run time on it than the average person runs one in a year. 
Ive never been a Stihl fan, but Im man enough to give credit where credit is due and Stihl hit a bottom of the 9th, grand slam, game winning, home run with this saw


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 14, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> As to the poster who said "its a month old saw, get back to me when you've wore a piston out", Id be willing to bet that unless you mill with yours or cut professionally, my month old saw already has more run time on it than the average person runs one in a year.
> Ive never been a Stihl fan, but Im man enough to give credit where credit is due and Stihl hit a bottom of the 9th, grand slam, game winning, home run with this saw


Who buys a 500i and isn’t a professional? I just finished my first 6 pack of rim sprockets last week on this saw. I don’t know how many hours that is. About 150’ of chain through it. I’m guessing the shop could hook it to the computer and tell me. But I’m guessing piston #1 ran Half as long as it would have with proper filtration. It still runs. But more like an 044 power wise.


Chris1044 said:


> So you have a 500 which is low on compression after _____ hours?
> 
> Curious how much a piston/ring and jug cost? I would think availability is a real problem on them as well


no idea of hours. But best guess is about half the amount of wood I’ve been cutting with similar saws. If I remember right the jug and piston I found was $400. Genuine Stihl. Piston lists for $65 at local dealer, but isn’t available.


don’t get me wrong, I’d buy another. I’m just very disappointed in the air filtration. I’d have traded it for a new one and let it be someone else’s problem if my dealer had one.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 15, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> Chances are your saw is fine. A little oily dirty residue is perfectly normal and Ive seen it in every saw Ive ever ran except this Stihl and its SPOTLESS.
> As to the poster who said "its a month old saw, get back to me when you've wore a piston out", Id be willing to bet that unless you mill with yours or cut professionally, my month old saw already has more run time on it than the average person runs one in a year.
> Ive never been a Stihl fan, but Im man enough to give credit where credit is due and Stihl hit a bottom of the 9th, grand slam, game winning, home run with this saw


Couldn't "resist temptation" and removed the exhaust. There are some marks ,maybe scores on the cylinder but for my eyes are nothing. Probably wouldn't be felt with a finger/nail .
Will be a lot more carefull from now on.
These photos are the best I can do. This smartphone takes nice photos but doesn't focus like human eye... 
Even video 4K doesn't show the cylinder as it...


----------



## ken morgan (Mar 15, 2022)

GrizG said:


> Euell Gibbons... the health food/outdoors guy who died at 64.





GrizG said:


> He was a "guru" for healthy living and did TV commercials for Grape Nuts cereal in the early 70s. The irony of his dying at 64 was not lost on people even if the world wide web and social media didn't exist yet!



pretty sure he died of an inherited genetic disease of some sort and not due to his lifestyle or the type of food he ate.


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 15, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Who buys a 500i and isn’t a professional?



What do you consider a professional?


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 15, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> What do you consider a professional?


Aren't "professional" those that do a thing for a living? In this case someone that earns a living by using a gas chainsaw daily! Makes sense to buy the latest professional chainsaw,with all the improvements and the quality of a product a individual demands if he's gonna use it 8-10 hours a day,EVERYDAY! "Non-professionals just buy a chainsaw to use it 2,3,4 times a year and that's it. Someone like me  
Although I kind of enjoy cutting big logs, makes me sweat and getting tired but I like it. May search for logs to cut down in free time! Second job


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 15, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Who buys a 500i and isn’t a professional?






Gabriel1982 said:


> Aren't "professional" those that do a thing for a living? In this case someone that earns a living by using a gas chainsaw daily! Makes sense to buy the latest professional chainsaw,with all the improvements and the quality of a product a individual demands if he's gonna use it 8-10 hours a day,EVERYDAY! "Non-professionals just buy a chainsaw to use it 2,3,4 times a year and that's it. Someone like me
> Although I kind of enjoy cutting big logs, makes me sweat and getting tired but I like it. May search for logs to cut down in free time! Second job



By your definition then I'm definitely not a "professional", but I use my saw a lot more then 2,3,4 times a year, so I'm not a "Non-professional". And yet I own a 500i. Seems we are lacking enough descriptions for saw users. Or maybe everybody just needs to calm down, and breathe a little. 

There is plenty of evidence that many saw users on this site spend more time buying saws then they do using saws.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 15, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> By your definition then I'm definitely not a "professional", but I use my saw a lot more then 2,3,4 times a year, so I'm not a "Non-professional". And yet I own a 500i. Seems we are lacking enough descriptions for saw users. Or maybe everybody just needs to calm down, and breathe a little.
> 
> There is plenty of evidence that many saw users on this site spend more time buying saws then they do using saws.


 I'm calm . Couldn't be more calmer. I would ve asleep by then  
And yes, if you use a gas chainsaw more often then 2-4 times a year ,you do need a professional chainsaw. Just to make your life easier. I may fall into that category of guys that buy a saw use it 2-4 times a year then forget about it... 
But I can't go around cutting trees at random


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 15, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> I'm calm . Couldn't be more calmer. I would ve asleep by then
> And yes, if you use a gas chainsaw more often then 2-4 times a year ,you do need a professional chainsaw. Just to make your life easier. I may fall into that category of guys that buy a saw use it 2-4 times a year then forget about it...
> But I can't go around cutting trees at random



My neighbors and I cut about the same amount of wood a year. 2 of them have farm-boss/rancher saws and have a lot of problems with them, whereas my "Pro" saws are bullet proof. My sold 461 was a "pro" saw and ran perfectly for 5+ years. My ms290, a rancher saw, was constantly being diagnose and adjusted to keep running properly.

Pro saws are for frequent and sometimes heavy users. You don't need to be a "Professional" to justify owning a Pro saw.

In fact on this site, you don't even have to use the saw(s). There are plenty of "Collectors" on this site, that buy and buy and buy, to feed some pretend disorder called CAD.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 15, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> My neighbors and I cut about the same amount of wood a year. 2 of them have farm-boss/rancher saws and have a lot of problems with them, whereas my "Pro" saws are bullet proof. My sold 461 was a "pro" saw and ran perfectly for 5+ years. My ms290, a rancher saw, was constantly being diagnose and adjusted to keep running properly.
> 
> Pro saws are for frequent and sometimes heavy users. You don't need to be a "Professional" to justify owning a Pro saw.
> 
> In fact on this site, you don't even have to use the saw(s). There are plenty of "Collectors" on this site, that buy and buy and buy, to feed some pretend disorder called CAD.


Hold on ,what is CAD? I bought ONE saw Makita EA6100P because I need one for cutting firewood a few times a year. At first I was set on the biggest Husqvarna I could find. But a friend who own a Makita Dcs-6400 convincend me to get a Makita. I was again set on Makita 7900... Almost gave up(because could not find a brand new makita gas chainsaw) ,but luck was with me and found the EA6100P. I wouldn't get another saw unless I would cut wood daily and needed a back-up tool on wich I can rely on!
I'm not into collecting things. Used to do that but I got bored,sold everything that could be sold, took to scrap iron yard the rest or out to trash. The older I get the less things I need or feel the need to own or have around. Lost interest in material things. Only like to have around things or people who make me feel happy. The rest is pointless $hit for me!


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 15, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> What do you consider a professional?


Someone who runs the saw for a significant portion of their income.

It’s painfully obvious that most the guys here telling me it’s a non issue haven’t even cleaned their air filter until they saw this thread. Much less worn out a single rim sprocket (wear item).


----------



## KarlD (Mar 16, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Someone who runs the saw for a significant portion of their income.
> 
> It’s painfully obvious that most the guys here telling me it’s a non issue haven’t even cleaned their air filter until they saw this thread. Much less worn out a single rim sprocket (wear item).


Been running my 500i ‘professionally’ for over two years.
What is 100% apparent is NOBODY is evidencing all these failed and or low compression 500i’s out there.
I’m done with this BS.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Mar 16, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Someone who runs the saw for a significant portion of their income.
> 
> It’s painfully obvious that most the guys here telling me it’s a non issue haven’t even cleaned their air filter until they saw this thread. Much less worn out a single rim sprocket (wear item).


But it says even in the user manual for my Makita EA6100P to check or clean the air filter at various intervals of time/use...
Even replace it if necesary!
How can someone who bought a 500i not read the user manual before actually using it?!


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 16, 2022)

KarlD said:


> What is 100% apparent is NOBODY is evidencing all these failed and or low compression 500i’s out there.
> I’m done with this BS.


I hearby officially release you from any obligation to read or comment in any thread you are done with.


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 16, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Someone who runs the saw for a significant portion of their income.
> 
> It’s painfully obvious that most the guys here telling me it’s a non issue haven’t even cleaned their air filter until they saw this thread. Much less worn out a single rim sprocket (wear item).


IF you've only ran 150 ft or so of chain through it and already worn out that many sprockets, Theres another issue with your saw besides a MINUTE sniff of fine sawdust getting past the filter! Ive never really kept up with how many chains Ive ran or how many sprockets Ive worn out before a saw is worn out. Your figures seem very excessive to me though. How many bars have you worn out? Something just doesn't add up.


----------



## KarlD (Mar 16, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I hearby officially release you from any obligation to read or comment in any thread you are done with.


Thank you Sir


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 16, 2022)

I’m just running 18” bars 66dl. I’ve run 2 tsumura bars starting at .050 working my way to .063. When I bought the saw I moved a bar that was .058 to it and finished it off. I’m still running .050 chain on the bar on it currently. So say 3 bars spent so far
I’m running 8 pin rims. 
I cut mesquite only. 75% of it has been dead long enough there’s no bark on it. I sneak some green stuff in when I can.
For what I cut the 18” bar and 8 pin rim loads the saw all it wants. I’ve already put 1 clutch on this saw. I run a mix of Stihl 33rs and the archer copy chain depending on what I can get a deal on.
I’ve run almost exclusively Stihl saws my whole life in exactly the same conditions. And it’s not fines coming through the filter. It is bigger stuff sneaking in under the base of the filter.


----------



## PV Hiker (Mar 16, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> ... And it’s not fines coming through the filter. It is bigger stuff sneaking in under the base of the filter.


Then why won't you try putting some DOW-Corning 
Silicone-Based High Vacuum Grease around the back side. I use it and get ZERO fines around it.​


----------



## MontanaResident (Mar 16, 2022)

PV Hiker said:


> Then why won't you try putting some DOW-Corning
> Silicone-Based High Vacuum Grease around the back side. I use it and get ZERO fines around it.​



What then would he got to complain about?


----------



## PV Hiker (Mar 16, 2022)

@SamT1 If you have used up the workability of the 500i I would think Stihl should get it from you and analyze it. A saw with that many hours would surly help them. Maybe contact a Still rep in your area and have a discussion. Maybe they will trade you for it.


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 16, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> What then would he got to complain about?


I’ve tried various types of greace around it and they all make it worse. The only improvement is adding a washer to the stem above the filter to add down pressure to the filter. But it’s so tight it won’t last forever.


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 16, 2022)

PV Hiker said:


> @SamT1 If you have used up the workability of the 500i I would think Stihl should get it from you and analyze it. A saw with that many hours would surly help them. Maybe contact a Still rep in your area and have a discussion. Maybe they will trade you for it.


Doubt it. Apparently 95%of their customers are weekend warriors who think I’m an idiot.
Kinda like Chevrolet, we can’t buy a durable pickup anymore because they are engineered for the city guy who pulls a trailer now and then.


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 17, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Doubt it. Apparently 95%of their customers are weekend warriors who think I’m an idiot.
> Kinda like Chevrolet, we can’t buy a durable pickup anymore because they are engineered for the city guy who pulls a trailer now and then.


LOL ok, weekend warrior here too then I guess. Next time Im in Texas, which should be this November, Im going to cut some of this mesquite crap yall call firewood. Looks like scrub brush to me, the **** you push out of the way to get to the real firewood honestly. In any case, I give you my word I will put a saw in some of it just to see what all the fuss is about. Theres no way its any harder than seasoned locust, seasoned black walnut or let alone osage orange. Whatever it is, Ive got to cut some of it, I want to see what kind of wood can wear out 150 ft of chain, 3 bars, and 6 sprockets in less than a year!


----------



## SamT1 (Mar 17, 2022)

Huntaholic said:


> LOL ok, weekend warrior here too then I guess. Next time Im in Texas, which should be this November, Im going to cut some of this mesquite crap yall call firewood. Looks like scrub brush to me, the **** you push out of the way to get to the real firewood honestly. In any case, I give you my word I will put a saw in some of it just to see what all the fuss is about. Theres no way its any harder than seasoned locust, seasoned black walnut or let alone osage orange. Whatever it is, Ive got to cut some of it, I want to see what kind of wood can wear out 150 ft of chain, 3 bars, and 6 sprockets in less than a year!


Believe me if I had anything else to cut I’d be cutting it. I’m fortunate enough to live in an area with mesquite as big as they get.
I have customers that drive from as far as Florida to buy wood. Takes 4 trees to make a cord average, there’s a good few cord trees around and I’ve had some make as much as 2 cords. They only get big in sandy soil with a shallow water table. There’s an area about 60 miles wide from San Angelo to Vernon where they get big for the most part. The wood is sold before I ever cut it, so we cut mostly dead stuff. 
place I’m cutting in now, pretty average for what I cut.


----------



## Huntaholic (Mar 17, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Believe me if I had anything else to cut I’d be cutting it. I’m fortunate enough to live in an area with mesquite as big as they get.
> I have customers that drive from as far as Florida to buy wood. Takes 4 trees to make a cord average, there’s a good few cord trees around and I’ve had some make as much as 2 cords. They only get big in sandy soil with a shallow water table. There’s an area about 60 miles wide from San Angelo to Vernon where they get big for the most part. The wood is sold before I ever cut it, so we cut mostly dead stuff.
> place I’m cutting in now, pretty average for what I cut.


We buy groceries every year for deer camp at the walmart on Sherwood way in San Angelo then head south to Ozona. Deer camp is on the north side of the Pecos river just north of Langtry. LOL Yeah, Ive seen PLENTY of mesquite, just never bothered to cut any while we are there.


----------



## bwalker (Mar 17, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Believe me if I had anything else to cut I’d be cutting it. I’m fortunate enough to live in an area with mesquite as big as they get.
> I have customers that drive from as far as Florida to buy wood. Takes 4 trees to make a cord average, there’s a good few cord trees around and I’ve had some make as much as 2 cords. They only get big in sandy soil with a shallow water table. There’s an area about 60 miles wide from San Angelo to Vernon where they get big for the most part. The wood is sold before I ever cut it, so we cut mostly dead stuff.
> place I’m cutting in now, pretty average for what I cut.


I've never seen mesquite that n
Big!


----------



## MaxFlow Flters (Apr 2, 2022)

We are making a very good filter kit for the 500i and it is available now. The cost is a reasonable $89.95 including 2 washable elements, the cage and the high flow form fitting all season cover. A small modification to the cylinder shroud is necessary to insure clearance when the AV mounts are at the limits of their travel. This 500i filter kit has extensive testing on it, much more than we have ever done on previous kits. This new 500i filter kit has been utilized worldwide, in deplorable conditions, and far outperforms a stock filter on almost every level. The Stihl MS500i is a great chainsaw, and the potential of it is increased dramatically with the MaxFlow 500i filter kit. It will perform better than with a new stock filter, for multiple tanks of fuel, and keep pure air flowing into the engine for far longer between cleanings. Plus you get that awesome MaxFlow sound! Thank you for the continued support and patience of our loyal customers. Without your help and feedback this kit would never have reached its current high level of quality. Visit your Stihl dealer or buy them direct from us. Made in Oregon and available to answer your questions.
https://maxflowfilters.com/shop-all/ols/products/maxflow-air-filter-for-stihl-ms-500i-chainsaws


----------



## Logger nate (Apr 3, 2022)

Another option








Air Filter Kit (Stihl 500 & 661) - New and Improved!!


New and Improved Air Filter Kit!! This filter kit is smaller than the previous model so there is now a gap between the filter and the oem filter cover. This allows for better airflow around the entire filter, and more time between filter cleanings (see photos). This air filter kit includes one...



eganperformancesaws.com




Edit-guess this has already been mentioned in the thread, sorry for the repeat.


----------



## sawfarmer (Apr 4, 2022)

angelo c said:


> The next time I see one in a "pro" environment will be the first time...I'll give it a close "once over" then...


7310 has the best air filtration system on any saw i have ever seen. The 590 / 620 leak fines in to the carb so i have put a redbeard saws air filter kit on my 620pw, no more problems .As far as the 500i i use maxflow kits on all my stihls my new 500i ,ms400 and ms462 all have them installed before first use!


----------



## MontanaResident (May 4, 2022)

I was at the HW store looking for a new gas can spout, and came across this SOLUTION. $2 for a 4' tube, a clean cut with an old bread knife, some rubber cement, and about 2 minutes of effort. I sure hope the small gap doesn't destroy the saw while I wait a day and cut out a small wedge and fill the GIANT wood chip sucking gap.


----------



## dstrick (May 4, 2022)

There’s a design defect with the 462? Can someone explain what it is so I can check my saw for it?


----------



## Bob Hedgecutter (May 4, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> I was at the HW store looking for a new gas can spout, and came across this SOLUTION. $2 for a 4' tube, a clean cut with an old bread knife, some rubber cement, and about 2 minutes of effort. I sure hope the small gap doesn't destroy the saw while I wait a day and cut out a small wedge and fill the GIANT wood chip sucking gap.
> 
> View attachment 986001




Could have stuck that on with double sided tape.


----------



## Karrl (May 4, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> I was at the HW store looking for a new gas can spout, and came across this SOLUTION. $2 for a 4' tube, a clean cut with an old bread knife, some rubber cement, and about 2 minutes of effort. I sure hope the small gap doesn't destroy the saw while I wait a day and cut out a small wedge and fill the GIANT wood chip sucking gap.
> 
> View attachment 986001


More power to you it, but weren’t you raggin on T1 in another thread for trying to shore up his air seal? If it’s not a problem then why bother?


----------



## sawfarmer (May 4, 2022)

Mad Professor said:


> But everyone was saying the 500 was the best thing since sliced bread!


It is just the air filtration is lacking .Put a MAXFLOW on it and use it!


----------



## MontanaResident (May 4, 2022)

Bob Hedgecutter said:


> Could have stuck that on with double sided tape.



We are talking about the incredible and powerful intake of the 500i. Anything less then cement could suck in the foam SOLUTION. I lost a button last time I was out. I think the 500i sucked the button right off my new shirt. I feel lucky it didn't take the whole shirt.


----------



## MontanaResident (May 4, 2022)

kjorrrits said:


> More power to you it, but weren’t you raggin on T1 in another thread for trying to shore up his air seal? If it’s not a problem then why bother?



Lets us not forget that SamT1 started this thread, and in another thread was cutting metal with the same 500i. No doubt that causes other problems that Stihl should be ashamed of too.


----------



## Karrl (May 4, 2022)

Last September I was visiting CO for a wedding and saw a 3/4 wrap 500i for 1350 at a big R. Very tempted but that’s a lot and was able to talk myself down on it without too much disappointment. Looking back I’m 50:50 on the deal but now but I’m waiting on something else good so I’ll be just fine. Oth If I had bought the 500 I’d have no guilt selling a few other saws to pay for it.

I also have a Echo 7310 which for 720 bucks, has a air filter seal like a dolphins blowhole. If I had bought bought both and the half price saw had a better air filter I might be making a new post myself…

Although if anyone’s interested I’ll let them trade their 500i up to my 7310. They’ll have to pay shipping though


----------



## SamT1 (May 4, 2022)

MontanaResident said:


> Lets us not forget that SamT1 started this thread, and in another thread was cutting metal with the same 500i. No doubt that causes other problems that Stihl should be ashamed of too.


The aluminum shavings are big enough I don’t need an aftermarket air filter to prevent them from entering under the bottom of the filter. 

Not many items you can cut with a saw and make more cash than the saw is worth in a half tank of fuel. But I would advise against the 500i for aluminum. I ruined like 5 old chains, due to the horsepower breaking them. We used to cut it with 036’s and never broke a chain. I showed a friend of mine and his farm boss cut more than me on one chain! Not that the chains are an expense, they are scrap chain, but the time to swap them is a pain.


----------



## Woodslasher (May 5, 2022)

kjorrrits said:


> Last September I was visiting CO for a wedding and saw a 3/4 wrap 500i for 1350 at a big R. Very tempted but that’s a lot and was able to talk myself down on it without too much disappointment. Looking back I’m 50:50 on the deal but now but I’m waiting on something else good so I’ll be just fine. Oth If I had bought the 500 I’d have no guilt selling a few other saws to pay for it.
> 
> I also have a Echo 7310 which for 720 bucks, has a air filter seal like a dolphins blowhole. If I had bought bought both and the half price saw had a better air filter I might be making a new post myself…
> 
> Although if anyone’s interested I’ll let them trade their 500i up to my 7310. They’ll have to pay shipping though


In CA the 500i's are around $1700 last I heard, I think that was a pretty good price.


----------



## HansFranz (May 5, 2022)

Woodslasher said:


> In CA the 500i's are around $1700 last I heard, I think that was a pretty good price.


If the last you heard was last week, they're probably up to around $3400 by now. Better get you a wheelbarrow


----------



## CaseyForrest (Nov 28, 2022)

Skip to 1:50....


----------



## GrizG (Nov 28, 2022)

CaseyForrest said:


> Skip to 1:50....



Looks like Stihl rediscovered the old trick of adding sawdust to the oil to mask lose tolerances...


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Nov 28, 2022)

GrizG said:


> Looks like Stihl rediscovered the old trick of adding sawdust to the oil to mask lose tolerances...


Well, if stihl is that bad at filtering air ,might as well grab "your lady's socks" and tie up around the air filter... MIGHT be a better job...
 ... Good thing I don't use a Stihl chainsaw... So far Makita air filter seems clean on the INSIDE... But I might still add some "lady socks" around it  just for my pervert fun! What's the worse it could happen? Running rich?!


----------



## Del_ (Nov 28, 2022)

CaseyForrest said:


> Skip to 1:50....




1:50:50


----------



## Sierra_rider (Nov 28, 2022)

I'm not going through the whole thread, but IMO Stihl missed the mark on the 500i air filter. Kinda odd, considering that most of the other Stihls are "air injected." That being said, throw a foam filter on it and it's a pretty solid saw. The power to weight ratio is like no other stock saws out there...I'm experimenting with a non-stock piston and some porting/machining in my personal 500i...when it's all said and done, I'm thinking 90cc+ power with 70cc weight.


----------



## GrizG (Nov 28, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> Well, if stihl is that bad at filtering air ,might as well grab "your lady's socks" and tie up around the air filter... MIGHT be a better job...
> ... Good thing I don't use a Stihl chainsaw... So far Makita air filter seems clean on the INSIDE... But I might still add some "lady socks" around it  just for my pervert fun! What's the worse it could happen? Running rich?!


I've got 3 Stihl's currently and haven't experienced this problem with them or the ones I had in the past... Seems they created a new problem!


----------



## Sierra_rider (Nov 28, 2022)

GrizG said:


> I've got 3 Stihl's currently and haven't experienced this problem with them or the ones I had in the past... Seems they created a new problem!


The 500i filter does suck(no pun intended,) but it's not a big enough issue to dissuade me from 500i ownership. I used to be a Husky guy, but most of the new pro Stihls are at the top of their class IMO.


----------



## Campbellcontractlogging (Nov 30, 2022)

Sierra_rider said:


> I'm not going through the whole thread, but IMO Stihl missed the mark on the 500i air filter. Kinda odd, considering that most of the other Stihls are "air injected." That being said, throw a foam filter on it and it's a pretty solid saw. The power to weight ratio is like no other stock saws out there...I'm experimenting with a non-stock piston and some porting/machining in my personal 500i...when it's all said and done, I'm thinking 90cc+ power with 70cc weight.


They missed the mark on the clutch drum too to save weight they made it thinner than a soda can.


----------



## SamT1 (Nov 30, 2022)

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> They missed the mark on the clutch drum too to save weight they made it thinner than a soda can.


I haven’t had to replace the clutch, but it’s the only saw I’ve ever run that had the HP to slip the clutch.


----------



## HansFranz (Nov 30, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> I haven’t had to replace the clutch, but it’s the only saw I’ve ever run that had the HP to slip the clutch.


If it's thinner than a soda can, I bet it heats up fast!


----------



## Seachaser (Nov 30, 2022)

OP, did you ever get it straightened out?


----------



## StihlPotlicker (Dec 1, 2022)

SamT1 said:


> Wtf is with the air filter on a 500i?
> mine has sucked dirt since day one. I’ve tried some of the suggested “fixes” from members here. I’ve also tried to trade it and can’t get a new one. Can’t get a piston either.
> this air filtration system is a failure in the real world. I’ve owned this saw a year. Somewhere around 300 cords on it (poor accounting I donno exactly) I’m shocked it still runs to be honest.
> I need to order an aftermarket filter I guess, but would prefer to put a piston in at the same time.
> I’ll admit I run saws like I stole them. But I’ve never seen a Stihl with this kinda issue. They would be in deep doo doo if these things were blowing up from dirty carbs and all the wood going though them. I’m guessing the average user doesn’t go through air filters too often. I think this is #5 I’ve put on this saw. Maybe I should just toss it on the shelf and put some panty hose over the hole.


have a buddy out it commieforna that cut trees down during fire season with his 500i he ran a Maxair Flow filter on his ported saw, he didn't clean his filter trying to see how it would do since the original filters are junk. he knew it was running lean, but she kept going. and if those trees are in flood zone i could see why you would go thru so many chains, if the bark is impregnated with sand and grit. i run max air flow filters on my 500is no issues. use bel-ray foam filter oil on them too.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 1, 2022)

I never understood why the manufacturers have not used foam filters. They have been used in dirt bikes since the 70's or earlier and work very well.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Dec 1, 2022)

bwalker said:


> I never understood why the manufacturers have not used foam filters. They have been used in dirt bikes since the 70's or earlier and work very well.


Why would they bother? Good air filtration+good synthetic 2 stroke oil means many hours of reliable working chainsaw. So no parts sold, less profit 
I would try an oil bath air filter in a 2 stroke chainsaw, as I had one about 20 years ago on an old motorcycle. The things I found in that oil bath when changing the oil +cleaning that mesh in gasoline,was amazing... You could use that oil as an abrasive paste, if you ask me... Just by judging its "consistency" between 2 fingers...
And that engine was also 2 stroke,yet the intake between carb and air filter was completely clean although a bit oily unlike in my makita EA6100p... Where I did found some oily stuff WITH a fine wood dust... 
Took me "awhile" to proces that,me puzzled since the air filter was very well placed,clean and tight on that rubber seal...
Only thing that came to my mind was : "these people don't give a **** what happens to the chainsaw AFTER is sold..." . Since chainsaws get used in many positions ,an oil bath air filter is not possible to use(unless you engineer it to STAY vertical as you use the chainsaw) but a thick foam air filter immersed in some oil ,would be possible. On condition to clean it in fresh gasoline more often.and use clean oil every time! No chainsaw user will do that. I think 
Also,some oil will get inside the engine,so...again,might affect the 2 stroke engine!
Only possible viable alternative is...many lady socks on the existing air filter 
Although your girl might not be "that happy" . Once it finds out...


----------



## bwalker (Dec 1, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> Why would they bother? Good air filtration+good synthetic 2 stroke oil means many hours of reliable working chainsaw. So no parts sold, less profit ￼￼
> 
> I would try an oil bath air filter in a 2 stroke chainsaw, as I had one about 20 years ago on an old motorcycle. The things I found in that oil bath when changing the oil +cleaning that mesh in gasoline,was amazing... You could use that oil as an abrasive paste, if you ask me... Just by judging its "consistency" between 2 fingers...
> 
> ...


A simple oil soaked foam filters works just fine in a saw. It's really a better most trap than the crap that's been put on chainsaws for years.


----------



## JPCalifornia (Dec 1, 2022)

There’s no perfect chainsaw, and that’s why we all need to buy as many of them as we can without getting a divorce


----------



## OM617YOTA (Dec 1, 2022)

Can only sell a reusable foam filter once.


----------



## MacAttack (Dec 2, 2022)

It's not that hard to buy a pack of Uni foam filter sheet, cut and make your own foam pre-filter. I made a filter for my old PM saw this way.
If I have one of those saws with the pleated filter plugging you better believe I'd add or make a foam pre-filter. That's what's in my tractors, foam over paper element.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 2, 2022)

JPCalifornia said:


> There’s no perfect chainsaw, and that’s why we all need to buy as many of them as we can without getting a divorce


Well after thousands or so saws and 25 years my wife chose divorce. She took everything but but my saws and my neverending love for her.


----------



## JPCalifornia (Dec 3, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Well after thousands or so saws and 25 years my wife chose divorce. She took everything but but my saws and my neverending love for her.


Proof once again a chainsaw is a real man’s best friend!


----------



## Bill G (Dec 4, 2022)

JPCalifornia said:


> Proof once again a chainsaw is a real man’s best friend!


No actually I would give up all the saws to get her back and the dogs. I was at fault 100% not her. She was as good as gold and I could not see it. Hard to crawl in a warm bed with a saw.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Dec 4, 2022)

Bill G said:


> No actually I would give up all the saws to get her back and the dogs. I was at fault 100% not her. She was as good as gold and I could not see it. Hard to crawl in a warm bed with a saw.


Wth?! This is about stihl building AND selling to customers "kind of" **** products...
Not personal life problems! I know it might have affected you badly,but on this world once a thing has happened you are obliged to get over it and live your life as best as you can. No f... around! World is full of women willing to have a life-in-two not alone. It's all about compromise and beeing a serious partner! Dogs are everywhere, cats also! 
Rebuild your life as best as you can and enjoy it. It's short and nobody knows when theirs will end!  
I too had a B-S relation in about 2006. Got over it and 16 years later I'm ok ,not the end of the world! 
Now tell me more about your chainsaw(s)  
Mine is Makita EA6100P but am itching BADLY either for a brand new Husqvarna 395 xp or 3120 XP. Second hand chainsaws are not atractive to me...
Problem is, even with a 61cc ,4.6hp chainsaw I almost cut my left leg(chain litterally stoped in my jeans cms or mms from my left calf... Can't believe it myself it did happen and I got away with not a scratch ..
I must wait some more and practice on bigger logs until I get either a new 395xp or 3120 xp...
And mind my limbs when I cut  
This old dude has won my admiration...
The control on him while throttling a ported 3120xp is amazing!


----------



## PEK (Dec 4, 2022)

Bill G said:


> No actually I would give up all the saws to get her back and the dogs. I was at fault 100% not her. She was as good as gold and I could not see it. Hard to crawl in a warm bed with a saw.


Thats being honest Bill.
Me I am lucky, don't know what I would do without my beloved wife.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 4, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> Now tell me more about your chainsaw(s)


Well which one you want to know about. There have been thousands go through here and many still remain There is at least 600 in a couple sheds. I ask again which one do you want to know about?


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Dec 4, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Well which one you want to know about. There have been thousands go through here and many still remain There is at least 600 in a couple sheds. I ask again which one do you want to know about?


600 chainsaws?! Well,I won't ask how,why,when... 
But what is the most powerfull one. And reliable  
No need for video with it running. Just photo and its history,hours of running time, how much wood it cut so far,stuff like this!


----------



## Bill G (Dec 5, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> 600 chainsaws?! Well,I won't ask how,why,when...
> But what is the most powerfull one. And reliable
> No need for video with it running. Just photo and its history,hours of running time, how much wood it cut so far,stuff like this!




To start with....
The how... just buy trade and deal with fine folks
The why.....I like saws
The when.....a lifetime of loving saws

There is no way whatsoever to answer your other questions regarding what is the most powerful and reliable

You ask most powerful? Well in what context? small wood , big wood, 12" bar or 72" bar, direct drive or gear drive, cutting in pine ( I have ZER0 experience), cutting in midwest hardwoods, etc

You ask about photos.. well what saw?

You ask about history... well history of what saws? Many men and women have put together websites that do a GREAT job of telling the history of saws. 

You ask about hours, well with all do respect I never saw an hour meter on a saw.

You ask about how much wood it cut. well a lot! (if it was a good saw)


----------



## Bill G (Dec 5, 2022)

PEK said:


> Thats being honest Bill.
> Me I am lucky, don't know what I would do without my beloved wife.


Hello PEK,

I truly know nothing about Bulgaria. (yes that is my ignorance) What is the weather like there now that it is the first few days of December? I know you fine folks deal in Celsius and here in the USA we use Fahrenheit. We are not froze up solid here at all. There is very little (really none) ice in the river. The walleye fisherman are just waiting to get rolling once the ice comes


----------



## Bill G (Dec 5, 2022)

Woodslasher said:


> In CA the 500i's are around $1700 last I heard, I think that was a pretty good price.


I believe what you are saying 100% but I just wonder what the heck is so special about the 500. That is not a anti-Stihl comment. I run them almost daily but I doubt I will ever have a 500i


----------



## PEK (Dec 5, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Hello PEK,
> 
> I truly know nothing about Bulgaria. (yes that is my ignorance) What is the weather like there now that it is the first few days of December? I know you fine folks deal in Celsius and here in the USA we use Fahrenheit. We are not froze up solid here at all. There is very little (really none) ice in the river. The walleye fisherman are just waiting to get rolling once the ice comes


Hi Bill, the weather here today is misty 3c very gloomy for Bulgaria, some years we get snow early nov but usually its begining of january before major snowfall, it can be very deep but in our village the lanes and roads are cleared very quickly with some very old machinary the coldest we have been one newyears eve was minus 22c. The summers here are hot this year into the 40+c, we go for months with no rain and even this time of year temps can get into the late teens. Nice of you to ask about us we moved here for various reasons but when I suggested Bulgaria the wife said where the xxxx is Bulgaria, I said xxxxxx if I know, so we looked on a map.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 5, 2022)

PEK said:


> when I suggested Bulgaria the wife said where the xxxx is Bulgaria, I said xxxxxx if I know, so we looked on a map.


*I love that. I truly do!* I am pretty well set in my location here but I will not lie I do have a bit of wandering lust. My paternal (namesake) family has been here since the founding fathers. We have been on the same tract of land since before the Civil War. With that being said they originally came from Germany. On my maternal side my grandmother's family came here so she would be born in America She was born in 1901 here but still longed to go back to Germany and see her family. She is long gone now as well as all others in my older family so I do have a bit of desire to go on an adventure but hell I know I will never leave. I have only traveled outside by local area for business. My ex-wife had a chemistry conference out in Colorado in 2016 so I did get to see the east side of the Rocky mountains. That is as far west as I will ever get.


----------



## PEK (Dec 5, 2022)

Bill G said:


> *I love that. I truly do!* I am pretty well set in my location here but I will not lie I do have a bit of wandering lust. My paternal (namesake) family has been here since the founding fathers. We have been on the same tract of land since before the Civil War. With that being said they originally came from Germany. On my maternal side my grandmother's family came here so she would be born in America She was born in 1901 here but still longed to go back to Germany and see her family. She is long gone now as well as all others in my older family so I do have a bit of desire to go on an adventure but hell I know I will never leave. I have only traveled outside by local area for business. My ex-wife had a chemistry conference out in Colorado in 2016 so I did get to see the east side of the Rocky mountains. That is as far west as I will ever get.


I never thought I would ever leave uk but my parents gone and the wifes and thejob my wife had for over 30 odd years came to an end when the woman she worked for died the house we lived in was part of her wages. We thought of spain or portugal to go to but things were changing so we visited bulgaria and bought our property for the cost of a second hand car, we love it it is like travelling back in time, horse and carts going past , shepard with his sheep on the hill the herdsman with his cows, geese turky goats ducks everywhere.
We have heard so many times from people we know, if only, we had a dream but never saw it thru.
We saw it thru and could not be happier.


----------



## woodfarmer (Dec 5, 2022)

I’m not clear from the original post, did you melt the piston in it?


----------



## JPCalifornia (Dec 5, 2022)

PEK said:


> Thats being honest Bill.
> Me I am lucky, don't know what I would do without my beloved wife.


I know what I would go without my beloved wife... I’d buy another chainsaw, and cut through all the crap!


----------



## PEK (Dec 6, 2022)

JPCalifornia said:


> I know what I would go without my beloved wife... I’d buy another chainsaw, and cut through all the crap!


Be nice to her she may buy you a new chainsaw for christmas.


----------



## StihlPotlicker (Dec 6, 2022)

PEK said:


> Be nice to her she may buy you a new chainsaw for christmas.


my wife has done that. she said it's because i married her young and trained her


----------



## PEK (Dec 6, 2022)

StihlPotlicker said:


> my wife has done that. she said it's because i married her young and trained her


EXACTLY, it worked for me!


----------



## StihlPotlicker (Dec 6, 2022)

PEK said:


> EXACTLY, it worked for me!


she was naive about saws when we first got married, a tree I was hired to take down, had a slight lean towards the house, but I knew if I climbed up 20 ft and cut off the giant limb it would relieve enough weight, I could fell it away from house. well, the 20inch limb grabbed my saw and down they fell. all it did was crack the top shroud behind brake handle (probably snow help cushion the fall) any how I climbed out of the tree picked up the saw and fell the tree. got home and wife asks how it went, I told her the plastic got broke, she heard my saw got broke, so if I need to replace it why not. I was not going to let this golden opportunity go to waste. So needless to say, that was the start of it. So now she sees a new Stihl advertised she asks me if I need that saw too?


----------



## PEK (Dec 7, 2022)

StihlPotlicker said:


> she was naive about saws when we first got married, a tree I was hired to take down, had a slight lean towards the house, but I knew if I climbed up 20 ft and cut off the giant limb it would relieve enough weight, I could fell it away from house. well, the 20inch limb grabbed my saw and down they fell. all it did was crack the top shroud behind brake handle (probably snow help cushion the fall) any how I climbed out of the tree picked up the saw and fell the tree. got home and wife asks how it went, I told her the plastic got broke, she heard my saw got broke, so if I need to replace it why not. I was not going to let this golden opportunity go to waste. So needless to say, that was the start of it. So now she sees a new Stihl advertised she asks me if I need that saw too?


Nice one, thats the way to do it!


----------



## Cedarkerf (Dec 7, 2022)

I have one of these so I have the best of both a woman and chainsaws


----------



## huskihl (Dec 7, 2022)

Bill G said:


> I believe what you are saying 100% but I just wonder what the heck is so special about the 500. That is not a anti-Stihl comment. I run them almost daily but I doubt I will ever have a 500i


Nothing. The 661 is more expensive, 462 slightly less expensive. The whole line has gone up 15-20% in the ast year


----------



## Bill G (Dec 7, 2022)

huskihl said:


> Nothing. The 661 is more expensive, 462 slightly less expensive. The whole line has gone up 15-20% in the ast year


No doubt the prices have exploded. It seems like yesterday (actually 20 years or so) a new 044 was $575 plus tax. 

A better example might be the 029 that was sold all over for $299 plus tax in 2000. Now go back 45 years and look what a comparable saw was plus tax. Guess what folks at or more than $299.. We had cheap saws for years and I guess we are now paying for it. That does not mean I like it though.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 8, 2022)

Bill G said:


> No doubt the prices have exploded. It seems like yesterday (actually 20 years or so) a new 044 was $575 plus tax.
> 
> A better example might be the 029 that was sold all over for $299 plus tax in 2000. Now go back 45 years and look what a comparable saw was plus tax. Guess what folks at or more than $299.. We had cheap saws for years and I guess we are now paying for it. That does not mean I like it though.


Compare your wages to back then though. I would bet the cost increase was comparable to your wage increase.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Dec 8, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Compare your wages to back then though. I would bet the cost increase was comparable to your wage increase.


Well, that "dude" J.P. Morgan had a saying...


----------



## Bill G (Dec 8, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Compare your wages to back then though. I would bet the cost increase was comparable to your wage increase.


Well I did not earn wages in 1955 but had I, I will assure you the would have been a hell of a lot less than what I earned in 2000. The price of the saw in 1955 was close to the same as in 2000.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 8, 2022)

Gabriel1982 said:


> Well, that "dude" J.P. Morgan had a saying... ￼￼
> 
> 
> 
> ￼





Gabriel1982 said:


> Well, that "dude" J.P. Morgan had a saying...
> 
> View attachment 1038877


And all things considered chainsaws are a dirt cheap hobby that serves an actual purpose. I've spent alot more on stuff that didn't.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 8, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Well I did not earn wages in 1955 but had I, I will assure you the would have been a hell of a lot less than what I earned in 2000. The price of the saw in 1955 was close to the same as in 2000.


That was exactly my point.


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 8, 2022)

If I had 600 saws and my wife didn't divorce me I would think she was crazy and divorce her.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 8, 2022)

bwalker said:


> That was exactly my point.


Well I guess you missed the point when I said......


Bill G said:


> No doubt the prices have exploded. It seems like yesterday (actually 20 years or so) a new 044 was $575 plus tax.
> 
> A better example might be the 029 that was sold all over for $299 plus tax in 2000. Now go back 45 years and look what a comparable saw was plus tax. Guess what folks at or more than $299.. We had cheap saws for years and I guess we are now paying for it. That does not mean I like it though.


You said


bwalker said:


> Compare your wages to back then though. I would bet the cost increase was comparable to your wage increase.


With all due respect what was your point? As I said in the earlier post we had cheap saws for years and are now paying the price.


----------



## Chris1044 (Dec 8, 2022)

Supply chain shortages are real. Hell even something like the polymer pellets to make the plastic housings have become difficult to get. 

That is likely the major driver for cost increases, as it is in my industry producing similar products. Whatever your opinion on covid is, one thing you can't dispute is how much it exposed the fragility of the global supply chains.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 8, 2022)

Chris1044 said:


> Supply chain shortages are real. Hell even something like the polymer pellets to make the plastic housings have become difficult to get.
> 
> That is likely the major driver for cost increases, as it is in my industry producing similar products. Whatever your opinion on covid is, one thing you can't dispute is how much it exposed the fragility of the global supply chains.


True but the "covid dog" won't hunt anymore. What it exposed in the USA was *some* folks choice to not work while they collect twice their wages. Those payments will be paid by those that are working by choice.

The supply chain issues is just another excuse.


----------



## Gabriel1982 (Dec 9, 2022)

Chris1044 said:


> Supply chain shortages are real. Hell even something like the polymer pellets to make the plastic housings have become difficult to get.
> 
> That is likely the major driver for cost increases, as it is in my industry producing similar products. Whatever your opinion on covid is, one thing you can't dispute is how much it exposed the fragility of the global supply chains.


Come to Romania. We drown in plastic... Valea Oltului is also called Pet River... Since it's always full of pet bottles...
2-3 dudes clean it, 2000-3000 bastards throw daily pet bottles or just about ANYTHING in Olt river...
Don't see this problem to be ever solved,if ever...


----------



## bwalker (Dec 9, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Well I guess you missed the point when I said......
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bill G said:


> Well I guess you missed the point when I said......
> 
> You said
> 
> With all due respect what was your point? As I said in the earlier post we had cheap saws for years and are now paying the price.


My point was the price of saws has risen minimally if at all when compared to inflation.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 10, 2022)

bwalker said:


> My point was the price of saws has risen minimally if at all when compared to inflation.


That was the point I made. They decreased from about 1955 til about 2000. Since then not so much....................


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 10, 2022)

I started out with a Homelite 7-19C in about 1976. Selling firewood. Think the saw was about 1959 model.
I gave $90 for two of them, one a good runner, the other for parts. Firewood was about $40 a pickup load. I made about $200 a week working at a tobacco warehouse.
Not sure what any of that means. Context I guess.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Well I guess you missed the point when I said......
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bill G said:


> That was the point I made. They decreased from about 1955 til about 2000. Since then not so much....................


Even from 2000 they haven't went up above and beyond inflation much.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 10, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Even from 2000 they haven't went up above and beyond inflation much.


That is simply not true.

Depends on how you look at things. Now I know and hope few are working for minimum wage but it is a way to gauge what it took to buy something relative to wages which what you mentioned earlier.

In 1955 the federal minimum wage was $0.75. A new quality firewood saw was $300 thus requiring 400 hours of pay to buy.

In 2000 the federal minimum wage was $5.15. A new 046 was $625 thus requiring 122 hours of pay to buy

In 2022 the federal minimum wage is $7.25. A new 462 is $1280 thus requiring 177 hours of pay to buy

*As compared to wages* in the 45 year period from 1955 to 2000 the price of saws *decreased* 328%. From 2000-2022 in less than half the period (22 years) the price of saws *increased* 145%

As I said earlier we enjoyed cheap saws for years and are now paying for it.

If you prefer to look at inflation then the period from 2000-2021 was 48.6%. We can figure 10% for this years so 58.6%
So the saw that was purchased in 2000 with inflation calculated in should cost $991 today. It instead costs $1280 which equals inflation of 105% I am sorry but from 2000 to today saws have went up at close to twice the rate of inflation.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bill G said:


> That is simply not true.
> 
> Depends on how you look at things. Now I know and hope few are working for minimum wage but it is a way to gauge what it took to buy something relative to wages which what you mentioned earlier.
> 
> ...


There is no doubt that the minimum wage hasn't increased in lock step with inflation. But the reality is hardly anyone outside of fast food works for min wage today. Even fast food since 2020 has paid more than min wage.
Inflation figures as I am sure you are aware very with how they are figured.
I bought a Stihl 260 and 440 in 2000. I don't remember what I paid exactly, but IIRC the 260 was around $400 and the 440 $800. Wages at my currently employer have over doubled in that time period, yet the saws haven't. I know thisnis anecdotal.. the other thing to consider is the technology involved in saws has changed since 2000. The more complex castings associated with strato charged motors and the increased use of electronics add to the cost of manufacture. Then you have the rapid inflation brought on by the covid fiasco. This is a temporary thing and in 10 years from now the numbers will be more reasonable. 
One thing is for certain. Current saws, all things considered are pretty cheap considering the performance compared to saws from 2000.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 10, 2022)

I am glad your wages have doubled in 22 years. Go talk with the UAW workers that built John Deere tractors in 1977. The go talk with their grandkids who are also UAW workers building John Deere in the same factory 45 years later.

When you get done doing that go ask the farmer that bought a new 140hp tractor in 1977
Then ask the farmer that bought a new 140hp one in 2022


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bill G said:


> I am glad your wages have doubled in 22 years. Go talk with the UAW workers that built John Deere tractors in 1977. The go talk with their grandkids who are also UAW workers building John Deere in the same factory 45 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't think the technology involved in building a tractor in 2022 is many times greater than one built in the 70's. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
And those UAW Deere workers are doing OK wage wise. Their latest contract was very lucrative.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 10, 2022)

bwalker said:


> You don't think the technology involved in building a tractor in 2022 is many times greater than one built in the 70's. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
> And those UAW Deere workers are doing OK wage wise. Their latest contract was very lucrative.


Does a 140 hp tractor today do more work in a day than it did in 1977?
You say_.....those UAW Deere workers are doing OK wage wise. Their latest contract was very lucrative.............._
Really was it? Tell me all about it.  I really want to hear your thoughts on this. 

You said....


bwalker said:


> ........... Wages at my currently employer have over doubled in that time period................


So are you saying the UAW wages at John Deere have also doubled since 2000?


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bill G said:


> I am glad your wages have doubled in 22 years. Go talk with the UAW workers that built John Deere tractors in 1977. The go talk with their grandkids who are also UAW workers building John Deere in the same factory 45 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bill G said:


> Does a 140 hp tractor today do more work in a day than it did in 1977?
> You say_.....those UAW Deere workers are doing OK wage wise. Their latest contract was very lucrative.............._
> Really was it? Tell me all about it.  I really want to hear your thoughts on this.
> 
> ...


If it does more work or not doesn't matter. The new stuff is iinfinitely more complex. Complexity isn't cheap. Of course some of this is EPA and safety regulations and some is stuff that actually increase productivity like GPS steering etc.
Deere's latest contract boosted their wages by 20% and included a 8500 signing bonus. That's pretty good to me. You think otherwise?


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

And assuming Deere employees have gotten 3% raises on average since 2000, yes they have doubled their wages or very close to it.
Altgough I don't discount the ineptitude of the UAW...


----------



## Bill G (Dec 10, 2022)

bwalker said:


> And assuming Deere employees have gotten 3% raises on average since 2000, yes they have doubled their wages or very close to it.
> Altgough I don't discount the ineptitude of the UAW...


What in the hell makes you think they have increased their wages 3% a year since 2000. I truly want to know where you are getting that information.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 10, 2022)

bwalker said:


> If it does more work or not doesn't matter. The new stuff is iinfinitely more complex. Complexity isn't cheap. Of course some of this is EPA and safety regulations and some is stuff that actually increase productivity like GPS steering etc.
> Deere's latest contract boosted their wages by 20% and included a 8500 signing bonus. That's pretty good to me. You think otherwise?


Where are you getting this from?


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Where are you getting this from?


I'm a Deere share holder and follow the company closely.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 10, 2022)

Bill G said:


> What in the hell makes you think they have increased their wages 3% a year since 2000. I truly want to know where you are getting that information.


That's the average wage increase accross industry.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> I'm a Deere share holder and follow the company closely.


I am glad you are so you should be able to clearly state the wages of a Deere assembly worker, parts warehouse worker welder, and tool man in 2000 versus one today. How about in 1977, 1982, 1988. 1993. 1998


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> That's the average wage increase accross industry.


How does that apply to Deere?


----------



## bwalker (Dec 11, 2022)

Bill G said:


> How does that apply to Deere?



I never stated I knew for certain, but if you do please share.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> I never stated I knew for certain, but if you do please share.


Well if you do not know then why did you chose to post these comments


bwalker said:


> ............. those UAW Deere workers are doing OK wage wise. Their latest contract was very lucrative.





bwalker said:


> ......................Deere's latest contract boosted their wages by 20% and included a 8500 signing bonus. That's pretty good to me. You think otherwise?





bwalker said:


> And assuming Deere employees have gotten 3% raises on average since 2000, yes they have doubled their wages or very close to it.
> Altgough I don't discount the ineptitude of the UAW...



After you posted all that with no supporting information I asked a simple question. 



Bill G said:


> Where are you getting this from?



You said.....


bwalker said:


> I'm a Deere share holder and follow the company closely.


My reply


Bill G said:


> I am glad you are so you should be able to clearly state the wages of a Deere assembly worker, parts warehouse worker welder, and tool man in 2000 versus one today. How about in 1977, 1982, 1988. 1993. 1998


Now you say..............


bwalker said:


> I never stated I knew for certain, but if you do please share.


So then why did you post all the above things if you do not know. You either know or you do not.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 11, 2022)

Bill G said:


> u either know or you do not.





Bill G said:


> Well if you do not know then why did you chose to post these comments
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The details of the contract I posted are public knowledge. You can find them on CNBC.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

Well let's see..


bwalker said:


> And assuming Deere employees have gotten 3% raises on average since 2000, yes they have doubled their wages or very close to it.
> Altgough I don't discount the ineptitude of the UAW...





bwalker said:


> I'm a Deere share holder and follow the company closely.


In 2000 a welder starting on the line at Deere made a whopping $16.50, yep $16.50. Today in 2022 a person starting as a welder at Deere makes $23. That is a fact! Her is another fact for you. The folks in the parts warehouse in 2021 started at $14.50/hr

The wages have not doubled. Not even close. If we use the 3% number you gave they pay should be..............$31.62

2000 $16.50

2001 $16.50 x3%=$17.00

2002 $17.00x3% =$17.50

2003 $17.5x3%=$18.03

2004 $18.57

2005 $19.12

2006 $19.70

2007 $20.29

2008 $20.90

2009 $21.53

2010 $22.17

2011 $22.84

2012 $23.53

2013 $24.23

2014 $24.96

2015 $25.71

2016 $26.48

2017 $27.27

2018 $28.09

2019 $28.93

2020 $29.80

2021 $30.69

2022 $31.62


----------



## ElevatorGuy (Dec 11, 2022)

Bill you have way too much time on your hands lol.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 11, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Well let's see..
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bill G said:


> 2020 $29.80
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bill G said:


> Well let's see..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats pretty terrible. I would look for work elsewhere. 
Even had the wafes double 31 an hour and change is terrible pay for that sort of union work.


----------



## OM617YOTA (Dec 11, 2022)

Bill G said:


> That is simply not true.
> 
> Depends on how you look at things. Now I know and hope few are working for minimum wage but it is a way to gauge what it took to buy something relative to wages which what you mentioned earlier.
> 
> ...



10% inflation this year is ridiculously low.


----------



## olyman (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> You don't think the technology involved in building a tractor in 2022 is many times greater than one built in the 70's. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
> And those UAW Deere workers are doing OK wage wise. Their latest contract was very lucrative.


it outta be,, deere is raking in millions.............................making the bigshots rich


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

ElevatorGuy said:


> Bill you have way too much time on your hands lol.


Well currently it seems that way.... I cannot put to much time on my feet yet so I have to do something. Living in the land of Deere, growing up with countless employees and retirees you learn a few things. Working with welders that left Deere you learn a few things. When you have sons that work for Deere in different capacities you learn a few things.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Thats pretty terrible. I would look for work elsewhere.
> Even had the wafes double 31 an hour and change is terrible pay for that sort of union work.


Especially when they were forced to work 6 days a week 12 hours a day. 

You think that is terrible then how about this. In June 2003 I went into a local factory to pick up about 9 weeks of work as I was teaching at the time and was off for the summer. I was just a laborer and was paid $18.51/hr. I worked on one of our rental houses in 2004. In June of 2005 I walked back into the same factory doing the same job I had in 2003 and was paid $11.13/hr. That is a cut in pay of $7.38/hr


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

OM617YOTA said:


> 10% inflation this year is ridiculously low.


Well President Biden is going work on getting that back up.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

olyman said:


> it outta be,, deere is raking in millions.............................making the bigshots rich


A number of years ago they wanted to move the world headquarters (Glass Palace) from Moline to China. They decided against it and I have heard that the current CEO has pledged as long as he is in charge it will remain here. We will see how long he is in charge.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 11, 2022)

My employer pays entry level operators with no training $36 an hour plus shift differential, OT built into the normal schedule and yearly bonus. Plus 401k, health insurance and pension. After 1.5 years the entry level guys gain an additional $10 per hour.
If I was a UAW member at Deere I would question why I was paying union dues for such shitty wages.


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> My employer pays entry level operators with no training $36 an hour plus shift differential, OT built into the normal schedule and yearly bonus. Plus 401k, health insurance and pension. After 1.5 years the entry level guys gain an additional $10 per hour.
> If I was a UAW member at Deere I would question why I was paying union dues for such shitty wages.




$46 an hour after 1.5 years ? Doing what? Just curious.


----------



## bwalker (Dec 11, 2022)

ZeroJunk said:


> $46 an hour after 1.5 years ? Doing what? Just curious.


Entry level refinery operations workers.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> My employer pays entry level operators with no training $36 an hour plus shift differential, OT built into the normal schedule and yearly bonus. Plus 401k, health insurance and pension. After 1.5 years the entry level guys gain an additional $10 per hour.
> If I was a UAW member at Deere I would question why I was paying union dues for such shitty wages.


Well then what would you do? Folks here are not independently wealthy, maybe you are. Folks everywhere have families with bills to pay. 

You made countless posts about Deere and the worker wages. Do you really know what you are talking about or not?


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 11, 2022)

bwalker said:


> Entry level refinery operations workers.


Well, that'd good to hear. When I was going out there kids in places like Choteau, Augusta, etc. pretty much had to leave the state. Or make a little money riding bulls, working for the forest service in the summer, working for an outfitter in the fall.. Not much industry.


----------



## Abbeville TSI (Dec 12, 2022)

I worked many an hour @ $1.25, one employer even deducted SS!


----------



## PP4218 (Thursday at 7:49 AM)

Anyone else use this to seal their air filter instead of the DC?

Mission Automotive Silicone Paste


https://www.amazon.com/Mission-Automotive-Dielectric-Silicone-Waterproof/dp/B016E5E59G



I've had good success with this and it doesn't melt.


----------



## Seachaser (Thursday at 8:08 AM)

Eggs have jumped from $1.85 a dozen to $5.85 a dozen in one year. According to local news this morning. So I guess that’s 8% inflation. According to the MSM.


----------

