# HEY BOB! What's steel, sharp. . .



## Metals406 (Mar 16, 2013)

And gives you lift?


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

:dunno:


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## Jacob J. (Mar 17, 2013)

Them funny things a guy stands on sometimes when he's falling a tree?


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## madhatte (Mar 17, 2013)

Using your axe as a wedge?


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## RandyMac (Mar 17, 2013)

A tack on a chair?


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## twochains (Mar 17, 2013)

Those longer corks for red oak?


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> And gives you lift?



Hey now! I thought maybe that project got buried and I wasn't going to bug you about it. Well, not _too_ much anyway. 

Do they come with the optional power hoist/winch attachment so that once I stick the board I can mount and dismount with style and grace?


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## slowp (Mar 17, 2013)

The brains of women?


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2013)

slowp said:


> The brains of women?



Uh....nope, ain't sayin' nuthin'. Thinking a lot, though.


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)




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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)




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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

All your answers are awesome!! 

Randy's gave me a chuckle. 


Although, only a couple of you were situationally correct.


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Hey now! I thought maybe that project got buried and I wasn't going to bug you about it. Well, not _too_ much anyway.
> 
> Do they come with the optional power hoist/winch attachment so that once I stick the board I can mount and dismount with style and grace?



These should be in the mail tomorrow. . . The mount holes are cut for 3/8 carriage bolts, for a smooth top side.

Both patterns/shapes I found in old-school pictures.

Power hoist and winch attachment cost extra!


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## Jacob J. (Mar 17, 2013)

Those tips look good, and they should work well.


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2013)

Nicely done. Let me know how much I owe you.


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Nicely done. Let me know how much I owe you.



You owe me, Jack -- some squat, capped with nada.


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Those tips look good, and they should work well.



I hope so! If they don't, Bob can use them for scooping out melons.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 17, 2013)

me thinks you just found my next forging project... got a pile of leaf springs waiting to get hammered on...

Any suggestions for wood to bolt it too, I'm thinking a 2x6 straight grained and no knots...


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## RandyMac (Mar 17, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> me thinks you just found my next forging project... Got a pile of leaf springs waiting to get hammered on...
> 
> Any suggestions for wood to bolt it too, i'm thinking a 2x6 straight grained and no knots...



df


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> me thinks you just found my next forging project... got a pile of leaf springs waiting to get hammered on...
> 
> Any suggestions for wood to bolt it too, I'm thinking a 2x6 straight grained and no knots...



You can just use mild steel. . . If you really want to use carbon steel, that's okay too.

I hear the competition boards are clear Spruce -- good flex I guess?


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## les-or-more (Mar 17, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> You can just use mild steel. . . If you really want to use carbon steel, that's okay too.
> 
> I hear the competition boards are clear Spruce -- good flex I guess?



Elm, Nate them damned spruce 2x4's break if ya stretch the span out past 2 ft, of course that could just be us gravitationally challenged people!


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## northmanlogging (Mar 17, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> You can just use mild steel. . . If you really want to use carbon steel, that's okay too.
> 
> I hear the competition boards are clear Spruce -- good flex I guess?



My large um... yeah, and flexible boards are a very intertaining proposition...:eek2: 

I literally have a pile of Med-high carbon steel for making knives and whatnot, so if yer gonna go big...

Yes I am saying I'm fat...


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

les-or-more said:


> Elm, Nate them damned spruce 2x4's break if ya stretch the span out past 2 ft, of course that could just be us gravitationally challenged people!



You're probably right.

I thought the same thing when I heard Spruce. But, if it's clear, it can bend a long ways before snap-ola. I know they're spruce in a good chunk of AK, cause that's all they got! LOL

Like Randy said, DF is tough as nails and would work real nice.


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> My large um... yeah, and flexible boards are a very intertaining proposition...:eek2:
> 
> I literally have a pile of Med-high carbon steel for making knives and whatnot, so if yer gonna go big...
> 
> Yes I am saying I'm fat...



Well, if yer gonna rock out the forging, make a square drift fer the mounting holes too!


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## les-or-more (Mar 17, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> You're probably right.
> 
> I thought the same thing when I heard Spruce. But, if it's clear, it can bend a long ways before snap-ola. I know they're spruce in a good chunk of AK, cause that's all they got! LOL
> 
> Like Randy said, DF is tough as nails and would work real nice.



Is that what the tree jacks are for, holding up the other end of the spring boards?
They look good by the way.


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## bitzer (Mar 17, 2013)

Hey Nate, those look nice. I made a board a couple of years ago never used it though. Not quite as purdy though!


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Hey Nate, those look nice. I made a board a couple of years ago never used it though. Not quite as purdy though!



When I get them and get them mounted on boards I'll post some pictures. Nate does good work.


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## Metals406 (Mar 17, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Hey Nate, those look nice. I made a board a couple of years ago never used it though. Not quite as purdy though!



Throw up a pic when ya get a chance!


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## bitzer (Mar 18, 2013)

Pretty crude I know, but I think it would get the job done. There have been several chances, mostly on double stemmed trees that I had to split apart. I always end up rippin em instead. The board is a 2x6 by about 4'. I'd make it a little nicer if I made it now. Just threw er together one night when I planned to use it the next day. Its been in my garage ever since. Now that I've got it in mind I've got the itch to use it. I'll be looking for a canidate tomorrow probably. 

















View attachment 285285

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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

Aw hell Bitz, that ain't that bad looking fer a quick throw together model!

Hope ya get to use it today, that'd make fer some neat video or at least you can tell us how it worked.


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## RandyMac (Mar 18, 2013)

Grain orientation is important on the boards, old Ray was very picky, often disrupting most of a unit for the perfect board.


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## Jacob J. (Mar 18, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Grain orientation is important on the boards, old Ray was very picky, often disrupting most of a unit for the perfect board.



I like how the springboards look in the old-time pictures, where they were thicker up front, behind the lip, and tapered out toward the back.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 18, 2013)

why the spring boards ? got some big trees to take down ? i just milled some doug fir ,one of the trees had real tight grains on the edge ,made some nice vert grain boards no knots


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I like how the springboards look in the old-time pictures, where they were thicker up front, behind the lip, and tapered out toward the back.



:agree2:



*Maybe ol Bob will carve his that way?*


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

Brian, how many did you want and what style?


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

Here's an old shoe. . . And some boards.


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

I just thought of a totally sweet ass design for a shoe shape!


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 18, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Brian, how many did you want and what style?



if your selling these id be interested in 2 of them like in the pictures just posted


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> if your selling these id be interested in 2 of them like in the pictures just posted



Oops, I meant the other Brian (Cedarkerf). LOL

But hey, I'm game if you are! 


I'll be right back, check in here in about 30 minutes. :msp_smile:


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

*Okay boys! How bout a shoe that was shaped like a roller bar or sprocket tip?

Pretty classy huh? * :msp_biggrin:


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## OlympicYJ (Mar 18, 2013)

Good lookin work Nate! Might have to purty up the old mans spring board with the draw knife this summer. May even get adventurous and make one just so I have a lil smithing project!

Hey thinkin maybe we should start a thread on our forestry blacksmithing projects or any related projects having to do with forestry and metal. I suppose saw dawgs could be included. I'm gonna dig my plot center staff out and snap a picture and start it in a few here!

Hey TRX if you get some from Nate I wouldn't mind taking a look sometime in person this summer if you don't mind. I'll be working up your way.

Wes


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Grain orientation is important on the boards, old Ray was very picky, often disrupting most of a unit for the perfect board.



Wondering if 1/4 sawn wouldn't be the best grain orientation for strength?


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## Metals406 (Mar 18, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> Good lookin work Nate! Might have to purty up the old mans spring board with the draw knife this summer. May even get adventurous and make one just so I have a lil smithing project!
> 
> Hey thinkin maybe we should start a thread on our forestry blacksmithing projects or any related projects having to do with forestry and metal. I suppose saw dawgs could be included. I'm gonna dig my plot center staff out and snap a picture and start it in a few here!
> 
> ...



Hey, if you do purdy it up, post some good picture of it!


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## forestryworks (Mar 18, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Wondering if 1/4 sawn wouldn't be the best grain orientation for strength?



Looks like Oak.

How'd you boys like to pack around an Oak springboard?


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## OlympicYJ (Mar 18, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Hey, if you do purdy it up, post some good picture of it!



Will do! Won't have a chance for a couple months. I remember the old man was talkin about doin the same but never got around to it. Dunno if you saw but I did start that thread lol


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## Metals406 (Mar 19, 2013)

*Check out this springboard!! I can dig it. * 

Technique d'abattage Alpi - YouTube!


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/otRRjAJZ-qk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## OlympicYJ (Mar 19, 2013)

Anybody figure out what they were tryin to do there? I don't speak French lol. Only thing I can tell is they didn't want it to roll down hill off the stump...

Spring board looked pretty good. I'd for sure want more than just the diamond plate for traction. Small dimple dies and smooth sheet aluminum would be the ticket I would think...


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## northmanlogging (Mar 19, 2013)

sure is a fancy spring board, but what the Hel was up with that cut... looked like a good way to get hurt to me


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## Gologit (Mar 19, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> sure is a fancy spring board, but what the Hel was up with that cut... looked like a good way to get hurt to me



There must be a reason for that cut but I can't figure it out. It sure doesn't leave you any time to get away from the tree.


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## RandyMac (Mar 19, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Wondering if 1/4 sawn wouldn't be the best grain orientation for strength?



that be it


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## bitzer (Mar 19, 2013)

It seems like they are trying to keep the butt on the up hill side using the stem as a deflector? Waste of wood and time.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 19, 2013)

It looks like that cut is acting like what we do with plastic wedges,makes the tree aim the way they want to fall


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## madhatte (Mar 20, 2013)

bitzer said:


> It seems like they are trying to keep the butt on the up hill side using the stem as a deflector? Waste of wood and time.



Zackly what I'm thinking. No wedging, though. Might be useful on burnt stuff where the good wood is up higher and the down-low stuff isn't strong enough for a wedge. Of course, hingewood would be at a premium, too, so... I guess one way to test for the suitability of this cut would be to bore vertically, where the hinge would go, to check if the chips are good wood. If so, the stem stob might be preferable to bouncin' one off a power line (not that I would know anything about that, nor would my crew watching in horror and amazement while I did it). Not in much of a hurry to try it out, I'll say that much.


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## Metals406 (Mar 20, 2013)

It's an Austrian developed technique for rock slide and snow slide abatement.

Cutting that way makes the tree into a big spoon, as apposed to a round high-stump that falling or moving objects would tend to just 'roll around'. From what I've read, it works pretty good until they rot or break off.


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## madhatte (Mar 20, 2013)

Makes sense. Got any more info? I'm still curious.


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## OlympicYJ (Mar 20, 2013)

Ah that makes 100% sense now! Interesting approach for the landslides and clears up why the weird cut.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Metals406 (Mar 21, 2013)

madhatte said:


> Makes sense. Got any more info? I'm still curious.



Not much more than you see in the video. . . We should track down an Austrian member and give him the 3rd degree! :msp_biggrin:


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## Metals406 (Mar 21, 2013)

So, we haven't had a real bad winter here in Montana -- in fact, it's been kinda down right mild. But apparently, it's been bad enough that Bob's springboard shoes had to get a little sun on the way home. Who would'a thunk Ol Hawaii was in between Nor Cal and Montanny?

WTF!?

:dunno::dunno:







:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gologit (Mar 21, 2013)

LOL...that's the same thing I got when I ran the trace number. I thought maybe I'd made a mistake when I entered the numbers but I guess not. No wonder they're not here yet.

Maybe they'll throw in a free pineapple or coconut with the package.

One thought disturbs though...the shoes have left Hawaii, but for where? This could get interesting.


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## Metals406 (Mar 22, 2013)

Gologit said:


> LOL...that's the same thing I got when I ran the trace number. I thought maybe I'd made a mistake when I entered the numbers but I guess not. No wonder they're not here yet.
> 
> Maybe they'll throw in a free pineapple or coconut with the package.
> 
> One thought disturbs though...the shoes have left Hawaii, but for where? This could get interesting.



No more updates today. . . Maybe they had to stop off in Australia or Papua New Guinea on their way to Northern Africa?


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## slowp (Mar 22, 2013)

They won't float like a soccer ball....:msp_mellow:


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## Gologit (Mar 22, 2013)

slowp said:


> They won't float like a soccer ball....:msp_mellow:



Hmmm...maybe when they get here I'll name them Wilson.

Gotta find them first though. They made it from Montana to Hawaii in record time so I'm thinking air freight. Now they've left Hawaii for...somewhere...and they can't be found. I'm thinking a Sause Bros tug and barge and a leisurely trip through the South Pacific culminating, someday, in an arrival back on the Left Coast. Probably Seattle. Then we can start all over again.

I'm building up to a rant on this but it's a ways off yet.


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## jeepyfz450 (Mar 22, 2013)

Springboards are cool and very interesting. can you guys that have expirience using them or knowledge about using them tell us more about them? Have springboards always had a steel shoe? i thought i read somewhere that they were cut in the woods. do you typically install a few springboards and plank between them or just work of the springboard itself (depending on the tree)? We dont ever see any old springboards around the east at flee markets or anywhere.


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## Gologit (Mar 22, 2013)

jeepyfz450 said:


> Springboards are cool and very interesting. can you guys that have expirience using them or knowledge about using them tell us more about them? Have springboards always had a steel shoe? i thought i read somewhere that they were cut in the woods. do you typically install a few springboards and plank between them or just work of the springboard itself (depending on the tree)? We dont ever see any old springboards around the east at flee markets or anywhere.



If you want your springboard to last and to be a stable platform a shoe is a big advantage. I prefer a shoe.

That being said, I've seen them made out of limbs, slabs cut from trees, old boards with a couple of nails driven in the end, ax handles, a jeep fender, a Dodge Power Wagon fender ...anything really that you could grab quick and poke into a tree. They're not as good as a purpose made 'board but they'll work in a pinch.

On the big Redwoods we'd often build an entire scaffolding system, crude but effective, from springboards and cross planks that we free handed. On smaller trees a springboard, or a pair of them, was all that was needed.


Do a search on YouTube...there's better videos on there than my explanation.


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## marimus (Mar 23, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> No more updates today. . . Maybe they had to stop off in Australia or Papua New Guinea on their way to Northern Africa?



If I see them going past, i'll be sure to point them in the right direction for you :msp_tongue:


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

marimus said:


> If I see them going past, i'll be sure to point them in the right direction for you :msp_tongue:



Thanks.


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## Metals406 (Mar 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> They won't float like a soccer ball....:msp_mellow:



LOL, That's funny! 

_"Bob, how are you fixin' tah get up high in that tree there?"_

*Bob:* _"Wilson. . ."_


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> LOL, That's funny!
> 
> _"Bob, how are you fixin' tah get up high in that tree there?"_
> 
> *Bob:* _"Wilson. . ."_



Or if you had somebody that needed schooling you could send him looking for Wilson.

Or if somebody asks you "you single jacking today?" you could say..."Nah, I got Wilson with me.".

Man, the possibilities are just endless.

Now all we need to do is get Wilson here after his South Seas voyaging.


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## Metals406 (Mar 23, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Or if you had somebody that needed schooling you could send him looking for Wilson.
> 
> Or if somebody asks you "you single jacking today?" you could say..."Nah, I got Wilson with me.".
> 
> ...



*Depart USPS Sort Facility*
March 23, 2013
REDDING, CA 96049


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## slowp (Mar 23, 2013)

Sounds like your springboard has a name.


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## jeepyfz450 (Mar 23, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If you want your springboard to last and to be a stable platform a shoe is a big advantage. I prefer a shoe.
> 
> That being said, I've seen them made out of limbs, slabs cut from trees, old boards with a couple of nails driven in the end, ax handles, a jeep fender, a Dodge Power Wagon fender ...anything really that you could grab quick and poke into a tree. They're not as good as a purpose made 'board but they'll work in a pinch.
> 
> ...



thanks for the information bob. i guess if you were taking down a huge tree you would need i decent crew to bring all that geaqr to the tree.


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## RandyMac (Mar 23, 2013)

jeepyfz450 said:


> thanks for the information bob. i guess if you were taking down a huge tree you would need i decent crew to bring all that geaqr to the tree.



It was usually some youngster with no sense, that was used as a pack mule.


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> *Depart USPS Sort Facility*
> March 23, 2013
> REDDING, CA 96049



:


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## Gologit (Mar 23, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> It was usually some youngster with no sense, that was used as a pack mule.



Yup. Wait a minute....


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## jeepyfz450 (Mar 23, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> It was usually some youngster with no sense, that was used as a pack mule.



How long have hydraulic jacks been in use? i cant imagine lugging a big saw (or two), springboards, silveys, fuel,other misc. gear into the deep woods.


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## RandyMac (Mar 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup. Wait a minute....



LMAO!!!



jeepyfz450 said:


> How long have hydraulic jacks been in use? i cant imagine lugging a big saw (or two), springboards, silveys, fuel,other misc. gear into the deep woods.



Getting all that crap to the site was work, once there it was usually just a few yards.


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## Metals406 (Mar 24, 2013)

jeepyfz450 said:


> How long have hydraulic jacks been in use? i cant imagine lugging a big saw (or two), springboards, silveys, fuel,other misc. gear into the deep woods.



Let's say a line-ground unit was 16 sets wide, and 1,100 feet deep. A set is around 120' wide -- so that's 16 x 120. That'd be 640 yards in length.

So, again, lets say a cutter can do 1.25 sets a day -- he'd be there sawing for 13 or so days. On such semi-short (depending on the yarder's capabilities) units, 13 days is plenty long enough to know what is in there. Most cutters walk their stuff before hand, and get an idea of how they're going to lay it down. So you'd see the ones you'd have to jack or pull (once the yard's there, the rigging crew can do one or two).

You'd know when you'd have to pack in yer jacks, or a board, or whatever. 

On the bigger shows, where you might not be able to walk it out -- a lot of guys will 'stash' gear the whole time they're cutting that job. Trying to keep it central enough where it's not a 40 minute hike for a new bar or something.

Most jobs these days, in the lower 48 anyway, you'll be close enough to the landing, or your crummy to just hike up or down and grab what you need.


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## Metals406 (Mar 25, 2013)

Bob, out fer delivery!! 

Let me know how their *tan *turned out. . . Wouldn't want them too *brown*. :msp_rolleyes:


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## Gologit (Mar 25, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Bob, out fer delivery!!
> 
> Let me know how their *tan *turned out. . . Wouldn't want them too *brown*. :msp_rolleyes:



Yup, they're out for delivery...in Yuba City.  Did you send them there or is it just another stop on their journey?


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## Metals406 (Mar 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup, they're out for delivery...in Yuba City.  Did you send them there or is it just another stop on their journey?



They should be sitting in yer paws now. . . Don't cut yerself. :msp_ohmy:


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## Metals406 (Mar 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup, they're out for delivery...in Yuba City.  Did you send them there or is it just another stop on their journey?



I did send them to Yuba City. . . The last addy I had fer ya. (I thought)

Hope it's still good. :msp_ohmy::msp_ohmy:

Are you gonna have to fist fight someone fer yer shoes?


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## Metals406 (Mar 26, 2013)

Crap. . . I just realized you are up in Grass Valley huh. 

I was looking at Google Maps and it hit me.

Well, if some 'home boy" has yer package. . . We'll have to start this all over again!


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## Gologit (Mar 26, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Crap. . . I just realized you are up in Grass Valley huh.
> 
> I was looking at Google Maps and it hit me.
> 
> Well, if some 'home boy" has yer package. . . We'll have to start this all over again!



LOL...PM sent.


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## slowp (Mar 28, 2013)

Update? We want to know.


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## Metals406 (Mar 29, 2013)

I haven't heard squat from USPS. . . Bob might drive by and ask the folks who live there about his package. :msp_unsure:

If not, a fresh batch will be made and mailed to THE RIGHT address this time. . . With maybe a short stint in Tajikistan.


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## Gologit (Mar 29, 2013)

I did some calling yesterday. Nobody knows anything. The people at my old address claim that they put a note on the package telling the postman "not at this address"...but that's third hand information at best and only as accurate as my English/Punjabi phrasebook translation.

Your guess is as good as mine. Those shoes are sure seeing a lot of country.

You might as well make me up another set. I think the ones you sent are doomed to just travel from one place to another until the packaging wears out and somebody in some Post Office in Lower Slobbovia winds up using them for paperweights.

I don't see you as being at fault in any of this so let me know about cost and shipping and we'll make it right.


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## Metals406 (Mar 29, 2013)

I've never had such a hard time with shipping in my life, as I have the last 4 times. From all big three shippers.

Jameson is in Nebraska, I sent him a package through Fedex. Jameson is in Aurora NE, right now his package is sitting in Aurora Colorado. :msp_mad:

:msp_rolleyes:

Bob, I haven't heard a peep from USPS about my email. Let me call them this time, with the tracking info, and see if it's back in their system for "return to sender". If it is, I can do a reroute.

I ain't scared to fab you new shoes, but with my luck, bout the time I start stuffing the new ones in a package, the others will show up at my PO. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Metals406 (Mar 29, 2013)

After a Voodoo ritual, some ancient Mayan sacrificing, and a long conversation with a computer program -- I was finally able to get a hold of a real live person.

So, they said if the people rejected the package (for real-zies), it will be returned to me Priority Mail. No tracking info is provided for returns.

They suggested I give it a solid 5 days to see if I get the package back. . . I asked the gal how long it would be in the Ukraine for it's return voyage. There was some confused silence, until she looked down and saw the package has a mini vacation in Hawaii. . . Then she giggled. :msp_razz:

So, if you don't mind Bob, I'll give it a few to see if it shows. If not, it'll take about three days to get the material from my supplier and I can make the new ones.


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## Gologit (Mar 29, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I've never had such a hard time with shipping in my life, as I have the last 4 times. From all big three shippers.
> 
> Jameson is in Nebraska, I sent him a package through Fedex. Jameson is in Aurora NE, right now his package is sitting in Aurora Colorado. :msp_mad:
> 
> ...



No problem. I don't need them right now anyway. Good thing, eh? Go ahead and chase the "old" set for awhile. Maybe lighting a fire under the PS might be the way to go.

The people living in my old place, without putting too fine a point on it, are probably not the most reliable folks and I have a funny feeling that maybe those shoes might get used to patch up weak spots on a walnut harvester. :bang:

And, as a side note...I got a call from one of my ex neighbors giving me hell for selling my place to "those people". I told him I sold my place to a real estate investment group and he'd better take up the matter of what kind of people are living there with them. Man, I'm glad to be away from all that.


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## Metals406 (Mar 29, 2013)

Gologit said:


> No problem. I don't need them right now anyway. Good thing, eh? Go ahead and chase the "old" set for awhile. Maybe lighting a fire under the PS might be the way to go.
> 
> The people living in my old place, without putting too fine a point on it, are probably not the most reliable folks and I have a funny feeling that maybe those shoes might get used to patch up weak spots on a walnut harvester. :bang:



That's what I figured. . . Oh well, I need the fab practice anyway. :hmm3grin2orange:

BTW, there were 4 shoes in your package. . . :msp_mellow:

If'n I have to make a new batch, you want one that looks like a roller nose bar -- as seen a couple pages back?


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## Gologit (Mar 29, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> That's what I figured. . . Oh well, I need the fab practice anyway. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> BTW, there were 4 shoes in your package. . . :msp_mellow:
> 
> If'n I have to make a new batch, you want one that looks like a roller nose bar -- as seen a couple pages back?



YUP! I kinda liked that. But...make what's the best for you. Either way I'm coming out ahead.


----------



## slowp (Mar 29, 2013)

opcorn:

Hmmm, this thread makes me think I should see where something I'm getting is. It ships out of Seattle, I think, so I wonder where it goes from there?


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## slowp (Mar 29, 2013)

Mine is going by FedEx and has not been out of the state, yet. It went from Kent to Auburn to Dupont where it left at 3:30AM and just might still get here. Not nearly as interesting as your Wilson.


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 31, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Grain orientation is important on the boards, *old Ray was very picky*, often disrupting most of a unit for the perfect board.



And I imagine that's why 'Ol Ray ran IHC trucks and Homelite saws.


----------



## slowp (Apr 1, 2013)

Hmmm. I just looked up my order, which says it was shipped FedEx, and it says it is at the Post Office??


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## Gologit (Apr 1, 2013)

slowp said:


> Hmmm. I just looked up my order, which says it was shipped FedEx, and it says it is at the Post Office??



Yes, but which Post Office?


----------



## strangersfaces (Apr 1, 2013)

slowp said:


> Hmmm. I just looked up my order, which says it was shipped FedEx, and it says it is at the Post Office??



From about halfway down *this web page*...

“For FedEx and UPS, the costs are lower to deliver in urban areas, and higher in rural ones,” Del Polito says. “For the Postal Service, that cost structure is the exact opposite. So *FedEx and UPS use the Postal Service for ‘last-mile’ delivery in many areas where it would cost them too much to deliver that mail* -- they prepare it for re-entry via the Postal Service which then walks it out for final delivery.” (To put a number on this, Alan Robinson determined in 2011 that “30.4% of FedEx Ground shipments are delivered by the United States Postal Service.”)


----------



## slowp (Apr 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yes, but which Post Office?



It says the one here. I have to drive a whole 4 miles through our traffic to get it.


----------



## Metals406 (Apr 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yes, but which Post Office?



So, my mom's little package made it to Iowa before they realized it needed to stay in Montana. They must have flown it back, because it got to her PO box QUICK! Conveniently on April 1st too -- so I just assumed they were pranking me, making me think it was back in MT so soon. 

No package of shoes yet. . . I won't wait much longer and I'll order new steel. :rolleyes2:

I reckon them Mexican'ts probably did use them fer melon scoops, or to patch their BBQer. :msp_sneaky:


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## Metals406 (Apr 8, 2013)

Well Bob (ya might sit down fer this, it's a shocker), but it looks like the Mexicants didn't tell the truth and send the package back to the Post Office like they said they did.

So, I'll get some steel coming this week and make yer shoes again, and mail them out.

This time to Grass Valley.


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## Gologit (Apr 9, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Well Bob (ya might sit down fer this, it's a shocker), but it looks like the Mexicants didn't tell the truth and send the package back to the Post Office like they said they did.
> 
> So, I'll get some steel coming this week and make yer shoes again, and mail them out.
> 
> This time to Grass Valley.



Thanks Nate. I really didn't expect to track them down if they didn't go back to the Post Office. Maybe I ought to watch when I'm driving through Yuba City and see if any of the local "pickup/chainsaw/ladder" tree service hacks have graduated to using springboards. Ought to be easy to spot...they'll be the ones using plywood for a board. 

When you get the new ones made and ship them I'll camp out down by the mail box. Just in case.


----------



## Metals406 (Apr 9, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Thanks Nate. I really didn't expect to track them down if they didn't go back to the Post Office. Maybe I ought to watch when I'm driving through Yuba City and see if any of the local "pickup/chainsaw/ladder" tree service hacks have graduated to using springboards. Ought to be easy to spot...they'll be the ones using plywood for a board.
> 
> When you get the new ones made and ship them I'll camp out down by the mail box. Just in case.



:hmm3grin2orange:

I'll have steel in my hands Friday afternoon, shoes headed out Monday or Tuesday.


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## Gologit (Apr 9, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> I'll have steel in my hands Friday afternoon, shoes headed out Monday or Tuesday.


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## Metals406 (Apr 23, 2013)

I by God take everything bad back I said about them Mexican folks.

They indeed did write what they said on the package -- and I finally got it yesterday. The weird part was, the PO made the address correction to Grass Valley, but still sent it back to me? :dunno:

But, that's no big whoop. . . I'm stoked they're not a patch on a nut harvesting machine!! 

They're getting repackaged today Bob, and sent to Grass Valley. Them things will make for some lively conversation pieces. From MT to HI, to CA, to MT, to ????. LOL

So, that leaves a roller-style, split-tail, sprocket-style, and straight-taper style up for grabs. I made them when I thought Bob's were long gone. I just have to forge and sharpen the tips. I'm gonna ask $35.00 each (shipped). Let me know if'n anyone is interested in a PM.

Willy, yours will get forged in the next couple days and sent to ya. 

Bob, yours are still cut for 3/8" carriage bolts. . . Willy, yours is cut for 1/4" carriage bolts.

I reckon 3/8" is overkill for what they are holding, so I downsized some for the newer ones.


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## slowp (Apr 23, 2013)

A thank you note to the Yuba City address would be a nice thing.


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## Gologit (Apr 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> A thank you note to the Yuba City address would be a nice thing.



Yup. Some Dos Equis might be even better. I'll be down there next week and I'll see to it.


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## Gologit (Apr 23, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I by God take everything bad back I said about them Mexican folks.
> 
> They indeed did write what they said on the package -- and I finally got it yesterday. The weird part was, the PO made the address correction to Grass Valley, but still sent it back to me? :dunno:
> 
> ...



That's great news! But, not doubting you personally, let's see what kind of meandering journey they go on this time. With the GV address they should have been up here the next day...but they sent them back to you..:bang: No wonder the USPS is staggering on it's last legs.

Anyway...when we get together dinner and beverages are definitely on me. I'll let you know when I have the shoes in hand.


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## Metals406 (Apr 23, 2013)

Gologit said:


> That's great news! But, not doubting you personally, let's see what kind of meandering journey they go on this time. With the GV address they should have been up here the next day...but they sent them back to you..:bang: No wonder the USPS is staggering on it's last legs.
> 
> Anyway...when we get together dinner and beverages are definitely on me. I'll let you know when I have the shoes in hand.



:agree2:


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## Metals406 (Apr 23, 2013)

slowp said:


> A thank you note to the Yuba City address would be a nice thing.



That's a downright great idea, and I'm gonna do it too.


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## forestryworks (Apr 23, 2013)

I'd like a springboard shoe made out of Dos Equis cans and Grade 1 bolts for when I fall some old growth Big Bluestem


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## Metals406 (Apr 23, 2013)

forestryworks said:


> I'd like a springboard shoe made out of Dos Equis cans and Grade 1 bolts for when I fall some old growth Big Bluestem



You better watch yer mouth or I'm'ah gonna make you one fer that old growth yer in!


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## jrcat (Apr 23, 2013)

forestryworks said:


> I'd like a springboard shoe made out of Dos Equis cans and Grade 1 bolts for when I fall some old growth Big Bluestem



At least it would be recycling .......you could call it a "green" spring board.


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## Gologit (Apr 23, 2013)

forestryworks said:


> I'd like a springboard shoe made out of Dos Equis cans and Grade 1 bolts for when I fall some old growth Big Bluestem



Be nice or I'll get RandyMac in here.


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## Metals406 (Apr 23, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Be nice or I'll get RandyMac in here.



Them old pirates are never around when ya need'em. :msp_sneaky:


:msp_biggrin:


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## Gologit (Apr 23, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Them old pirates are never around when ya need'em. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> 
> :msp_biggrin:



When you get a chance check out the Bailey's thread. GrandeDog is gonna tramp.


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## Cfaller (Apr 23, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I by God take everything bad back I said about them Mexican folks.
> 
> They indeed did write what they said on the package -- and I finally got it yesterday. The weird part was, the PO made the address correction to Grass Valley, but still sent it back to me? :dunno:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the update. I hope mine can make it from Kalispell to Helena without the extra mileage Bob"s got.:msp_rolleyes:


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## RandyMac (Apr 23, 2013)

I'll toss yer sorry butts in front of my tiller.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gologit (Apr 23, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'll toss yer sorry butts in front of my tiller.:hmm3grin2orange:



What! You bought a 'tiller and now you can't afford a shirt?


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## RandyMac (Apr 23, 2013)

Gologit said:


> What! You bought a 'tiller and now you can't afford a shirt?



It was hot, hit 66 today, there was no breeze. My blinding white hide made Annie laugh.

I rented that thing, it could pull a fat man through a knothole.


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## jrcat (Apr 24, 2013)

Forget the knot hole.Those tillers will pull a fat man through a pin hole.



Originally Posted by Gologit 
What! You bought a 'tiller and now you can't afford a shirt? 


They take your shirt when you rent them


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## forestryworks (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'll toss yer sorry butts in front of my tiller.:hmm3grin2orange:



My blinded eyes! Need a welding helmet!


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## jrcat (Apr 24, 2013)

Least he has the nerve to go shirtless lol. Ifin I did that people would run screaming and cry and would need therapy for life O_O. I need to shed the winter weight .....too much wrenching and driving truck. The front side of me looks like a smiley face..:msp_smile:


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## slowp (Apr 24, 2013)

Hey Randy! Bring that machine up here and we'll try it out in some real rocks. You might want to wear a shirt up here, I expect the mosquitoes to make a showing soon.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 24, 2013)

slowp said:


> Hey Randy! Bring that machine up here and we'll try it out in some real rocks. You might want to wear a shirt up here, I expect the mosquitoes to make a showing soon.



they started showing here last night ,want me send you some ?


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## Metals406 (Apr 24, 2013)

I was smooshing them devils down in the Bitterroot last weekend. None have showed their pointy faces here. . . Yet. :msp_sneaky:


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## Metals406 (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'll toss yer sorry butts in front of my tiller.:hmm3grin2orange:



When I saw this picture. . . This song started playing in my head. 

I reckon instead of a red hat this year at the PWN GTG -- Randy needs to break out the Mac Yellow speedo.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wyx6JDQCslE?list=PLD1346824C2A613E4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## RandyMac (Apr 24, 2013)

We are blessed here, no mosquitos.
I would like to have one of these.


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## Gologit (Apr 24, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I reckon instead of a red hat this year at the PWN GTG -- Randy needs to break out the Mac Yellow speedo.



BAD idea. Really really bad. Don't be putting ideas in his head. But I'll take my camera just in case.


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## RandyMac (Apr 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> BAD idea. Really really bad. Don't be putting ideas in his head. But I'll take my camera just in case.



Why wear a speedo when you could go naked?


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## Gologit (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Why wear a speedo when you could go naked?



'Cause you might get saw chips in places that you'd rather not?


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## Metals406 (Apr 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> 'Cause you might get saw chips in places that you'd rather not?



Now that's smartz!

Got some blown down my armpit hole the other day, and they nestled in nice around my waistband. I could only take THAT for about 4 minutes.


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## Eccentric (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Why wear a speedo when you could go naked?



Quoted for sig line usage.....:jester:


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Why wear a speedo when you could go naked?



i take it you don't have bar covers .........


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## strangersfaces (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Why wear a speedo when you could go naked?





Gologit said:


> 'Cause you might get saw chips in places that you'd rather not?



:msp_scared:MUST wear PPE....


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## slowp (Apr 24, 2013)

Traipsing through the nettles nekkid. Yup. How many shots of adult beverage will that take?


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## Metals406 (Apr 24, 2013)

Okay, shoes on their way to Nor Cal. . . AGAIN! 

Hope it takes this time! :msp_scared:


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## RandyMac (Apr 24, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Okay, shoes on their way to Nor Cal. . . AGAIN!
> 
> Hope it takes this time! :msp_scared:



Those Shoes - YouTube


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## Metals406 (Apr 24, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Those Shoes - YouTube





Now Bob's package has it's own theme song!! Hahaha


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## Gologit (Apr 24, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Now Bob's package has it's own theme song!! Hahaha



Uh....never mind. Tooo easy.


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## Metals406 (Apr 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Uh....never mind. Tooo easy.



Damn! Figured you'd swing on that one! I must have to throw waaaay inside to get ya.


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## Metals406 (Apr 26, 2013)

Now THHHIIISSSS is what a delivery from me to you is supposed to look like! No weird-wacky trips to left field this time! 

In 2 DAYS NO LESS!! :msp_scared::msp_scared: 

Out for Delivery *GRASS VALLEY*, CA 95945 April 26, 2013 9:08 am

Sorting Complete *GRASS VALLEY*, CA 95945 April 26, 2013 8:58 am

Arrival at Post Office *GRASS VALLEY*, CA 95945 April 26, 2013 6:02 am 

Depart USPS Sort Facility *WEST SACRAMENTO*, CA 95799 April 26, 2013 

Depart USPS Sort Facility *WEST SACRAMENTO*, CA 95799 April 26, 2013 3:30 am 

Processed through USPS Sort Facility *WEST SACRAMENTO*, CA 95799 April 26, 2013 1:13 am 

Depart USPS Sort Facility *MISSOULA*, MT 59801 April 24, 2013 

Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility *MISSOULA*, MT 59801 April 24, 2013 8:52 pm 

Acceptance *KILA*, MT 59920 April 24, 2013 1:21 pm

*Electronic Shipping Info Received* April 24, 2013


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## slowp (Apr 26, 2013)

So did Wilson finally arrive?


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## Metals406 (Apr 26, 2013)

slowp said:


> So did Wilson finally arrive?



:hmm3grin2orange:

Finally. . . And the whole time we thought he was lost at sea.


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## Metals406 (Apr 26, 2013)

So Bob. . . What was it like to actually get to touch and feel the package this time? :hmm3grin2orange:

What do you think of them shoes? opcorn:


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## Eccentric (Apr 26, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Finally. . . And the whole time we thought he was lost at sea.



In the Gulf of Mexico?:cool2:


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## Gologit (Apr 26, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> So Bob. . . What was it like to actually get to touch and feel the package this time? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> What do you think of them shoes? opcorn:



The mail lady brought them up to the house, even though they would have fit in the box. I'd told her the story of The Traveling Shoes and she wanted to be there for the happy ending.

Darn nice shoes they are. I'll get some pictures and post them later this evening.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 26, 2013)

dang i was hoping Tom Hanks was gonna drop them off at the end of this story


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## Gologit (Apr 26, 2013)

slowp said:


> So did Wilson finally arrive?



Yup. Now I have to find some worthy lumber.


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## Metals406 (Apr 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup. Now I have to find some worthy lumber.



I'd offer to send ya some. . . But it might end up part of a shack on the shores of Tripoli.


----------



## slowp (Apr 26, 2013)

I got some quarter inch thick old cedar siding. After it broke, you could use it for kindling to summon help via smoke signals.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup. Now I have to find some worthy lumber.



chunk of old growth fir would be nice ,all my stuffs second growth here


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## Metals406 (Apr 26, 2013)

Hey Bob, Nate W. took a slab of tight grain Montucky fir back with him. He was going to make a bench with it? Might could make a "stubby" springboard out'a it.


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## Gologit (Apr 26, 2013)

Here's the shoes. Now that they're finally here I doubt they'll ever leave California again.




















Thanks Nate. Fine job.


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## Metals406 (Apr 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Here's the shoes. Now that they're finally here I doubt they'll ever leave California again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you Bob! Means a lot coming from you. 

Hope you get some use from them!

They sure have a unique story already, and they have yet to be in a tree! 

Now to see which one gets the moniker of "Wilson". :biggrinbounce2:

I reckon I need to fashion a maker's mark and start put'n mah paw print on this stuff. :dunno:


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## northmanlogging (Apr 26, 2013)

you can have one made at a place called centaur forge, they got online stuff just search for em... works like a log stamp only smaller, (or for the cow defilers out there a branding iron)...

(I may be wrong on the centaur forge could be some other company that makes black smithing tools... but they are one of the biggest)


----------



## Metals406 (Apr 27, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> you can have one made at a place called centaur forge, they got online stuff just search for em... works like a log stamp only smaller, (or for the cow defilers out there a branding iron)...
> 
> (I may be wrong on the centaur forge could be some other company that makes black smithing tools... but they are one of the biggest)



AFAIK, Centaur doesn't offer stamps. . . Though I know of quite a few through knife making stuff.

I've known about Centaur since I was a kid -- mah dad was a Farrier and stuff when he had his Blacksmith shop in the early 1980's.


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 27, 2013)

Thank you for the correction.

How thick are ya making them shoes. I really want to pound a set out and I have nothing planned for sunday. Been awhile since I've seen a set in person, and they where quite rusty.


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## Metals406 (Apr 27, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> Thank you for the correction.
> 
> How thick are ya making them shoes. I really want to pound a set out and I have nothing planned for sunday. Been awhile since I've seen a set in person, and they where quite rusty.



3/16". . . A guy could go heavier, but I think 3 stinks is about perfect.

It also scales to be about right in some old pictures I've found from shoes back in the day. I have seen some from 1/4" as well, but why add the weight?

Do you want one of the templates I have to use for scale while you're doing yours? I can make a .PDF and you'd just have to print it out.


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 27, 2013)

knaw I'll just wing it like all my forge projects... use the anvil as my measuring tape and just try to get the back side to be 5 3/4" ish... now to find some 3/16" plate or just thin out some old leaf springs, I'm not up to welding together cable just for some shoes though, takes all day just to get a usable amount of solid...


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## Metals406 (Apr 28, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> knaw I'll just wing it like all my forge projects... use the anvil as my measuring tape and just try to get the back side to be 5 3/4" ish... now to find some 3/16" plate or just thin out some old leaf springs, I'm not up to welding together cable just for some shoes though, takes all day just to get a usable amount of solid...



Dood! Cable shoes would look sweet, but be worth about $580 apiece. 

Even drawing out springs would make some expensive shoes -- if'n you're calculating a little bit of the labor to hand draw.

Not that it isn't all fun!


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## Metals406 (Apr 28, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> knaw I'll just wing it like all my forge projects... use the anvil as my measuring tape and just try to get the back side to be 5 3/4" ish... now to find some 3/16" plate or just thin out some old leaf springs, I'm not up to welding together cable just for some shoes though, takes all day just to get a usable amount of solid...



BTW, have you watched ArtistBlade's tutorial on cable Mokume? It's pretty freaking sweet.

Cable mokume tutorial - YouTube


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 28, 2013)

No haven't watched it... mostly self taught, picked a few things up here and there watching other smiths at fairs and whatnot, read a whole bunch of books.


As far as cable shoes... give a bit of etch then blue em... buff with steel wool soak in linseed oil... could be a Hel of a Flea bay market for em...

I should get out there and start this project, but damnit the couch is comfy...


----------



## jrcat (Apr 28, 2013)

I should be fabing up the rear end of the bed for my truck today and fitting up the new cab corners and door bottoms... but as you said the couch and or chair is comfy lol.


----------



## Metals406 (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm drawing up 4-points for a 562xp. . . In a chair.


----------



## OlympicYJ (Apr 28, 2013)

Nate I'd be interested in a template. The old man learned how to make cable wire knives from an old guy who worked in his dads smithy as a kid. If ya break one wire he considered it defective lol

Also the North West Blacksmith Association has lots of vendors at their conferences. Dad used to be a member and I've been to several but he dropped. Lot's of artsy folks there but very skilled. Seattle is one of the hot spots for blacksmiths, especially for the northwest. Anyways one of the vendors who is passed now made all kinds of nice dies and hardie holders. Had a dies stand and cut-offs and butchers. lol


----------



## Metals406 (Apr 28, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> Nate I'd be interested in a template. The old man learned how to make cable wire knives from an old guy who worked in his dads smithy as a kid. If ya break one wire he considered it defective lol
> 
> Also the North West Blacksmith Association has lots of vendors at their conferences. Dad used to be a member and I've been to several but he dropped. Lot's of artsy folks there but very skilled. Seattle is one of the hot spots for blacksmiths, especially for the northwest. Anyways one of the vendors who is passed now made all kinds of nice dies and hardie holders. Had a dies stand and cut-offs and butchers. lol



Here are the the split-tail or the straight-taper ones. When you go to print, make sure your print settings are set to "Actual Size".


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 28, 2013)

got off my arse and made them up... I'll post em in another thread...


----------



## OlympicYJ (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks Nate!


----------



## Sport Faller (May 2, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Here are the the split-tail or the straight-taper ones. When you go to print, make sure your print settings are set to "Actual Size".



Lemme know if you need some small chunks of flatbar for future ones, i might know a cat that could hook that up


----------



## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

Sport Faller said:


> Lemme know if you need some small chunks of flatbar for future ones, i might know a cat that could hook that up



K. . . But only if we can meet in a dark, seedy alley, and we do an exchange out of the trunk of a '85 Buick Lesabre.

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Sport Faller (May 2, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> K. . . But only if we can meet in a dark, seedy alley, and we do an exchange out of the trunk of a '85 Buick Lesabre.
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange:



Deal, how wide are them rascals, they looked like about 1/4" thick and maybe 4"-5" wide?


----------



## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

Sport Faller said:


> Deal, how wide are them rascals, they looked like about 1/4" thick and maybe 4"-5" wide?



3 stinks thick, 3" at the nose, and 5 1/8" at the back (on the split-tail one).

BTW, them grinding wheels y'all use, they're Norton ????. They were one step below Norzon Plus.


----------



## Sport Faller (May 2, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> 3 stinks thick, 3" at the nose, and 5 1/8" at the back (on the split-tail one).
> 
> BTW, them grinding wheels y'all use, they're Norton ????. They were one step below Norzon Plus.



Yeah I think they were nortons??
lemme see what 3/16 I can start squirreling away, we don't use it near as much as 1/4 tho, I'm guessing that extra 1/16 wouldn't wear out yer hammerin arm tho :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

Been doing some thinking on this springboard thing.

So, you have a normal 2X piece of wood. They're extremely rigid and strong on their side, but show far less dimensional strength across the grain on the widest 'flat' side.







Add defects like knots, severed grain, shake, etc -- and they become even weaker.

Now, Great-Grandpa wasn't no dummy. Modern folks would have us believe they were a bunch of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals -- but these same guys were building 300 year structures. . . Out of wood!

Now add a taper, properly cut in, and with some thought (especially on 1/4 sawn wood) -- you've removed some of your cross-section, lost weight, but you've also added what?

Anybody? I don't see any hands raised, so I tell you what I see. . . A radius or arch.

Now, to anyone who has studied structural members, knows them dern Romans were bad mama jamas when it comes to modern architecture. They done figured out, before christ was a lad, that the arch is a super structure for strength. They actually figured it was a circle that was the strongest, but you could use sections of a circle and get good results.

I personally think correctly adding a taper to your board will add strength, and not take it away.

Thoughts? opcorn:


----------



## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

Sport Faller said:


> Yeah I think they were nortons??
> lemme see what 3/16 I can start squirreling away, we don't use it near as much as 1/4 tho, I'm guessing that extra 1/16 wouldn't wear out yer hammerin arm tho :hmm3grin2orange:



Yeah, 1/4" is overkill fer these shoes. You can still squirrel me away some 1/4" though. And run out to the shop and bring a wheel in so'z you can tell me what the dern sticker says on it. :biggrinbounce2:


:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 2, 2013)

have you found any worthy fir for your springboards yet Bob ? id like to see these all put together if you have any pics ,im wanting to build some for my stepdad for a gift


----------



## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> have you found any worthy fir for your springboards yet Bob ? id like to see these all put together if you have any pics ,im wanting to build some for my stepdad for a gift



Hey! They made you a Mod eh? Cool!


----------



## olyman (May 2, 2013)

“For FedEx and UPS, the costs are lower to deliver in urban areas, and higher in rural ones,” Del Polito says. “For the Postal Service, that cost structure is the exact opposite. So *FedEx and UPS use the Postal Service for ‘last-mile’ delivery in many areas where it would cost them too much to deliver that mail* -- they prepare it for re-entry via the Postal Service which then walks it out for final delivery.” (To put a number on this, Alan Robinson determined in 2011 that “30.4% of FedEx Ground shipments are delivered by the United States Postal Service.”)[/QUOTE]

THANKS!! now i know why,,ive seen ups, drop packages at the post office!!!


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## OlympicYJ (May 2, 2013)

Nate what are ya doing for a backing plate or are ya using washers? Countersink holes for washer so the nut remains flat is kind what I'm thinkin? Or make a thicker threaded backing plate and using round holes instead of square ones... thoughts?

Wes

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Trx250r180 (May 2, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Hey! They made you a Mod eh? Cool!



nah i bought my mod status with some credits


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> Nate what are ya doing for a backing plate or are ya using washers? Countersink holes for washer so the nut remains flat is kind what I'm thinkin? Or make a thicker threaded backing plate and using round holes instead of square ones... thoughts?
> 
> Wes
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



A guy has a couple options. I figure most folks have a spade bit in the least, and some forstners if they're fancy like me. :msp_biggrin: LOL

Drill the holes backwards. . . Meaning, pick your washer size. Lets say they're 1" dia. -- so start your holes (on the back side of the board) with a 1.25" (1 1/4") bit as deep as you want the countersink.

Then switch to your 'through' bit for finishing the bolt holes. 1 size over for 3/8" bolts, or 1 size over for 1/4" bolts, whichever you chose for your shoe. Doing it this way means you have to take a little more care in your layout (everything is backwards), but the counterbored holes give you guides (the center point) to finish drilling the holes all the way through the board.

Anyone who has tried to do a flat-bottom counterbore after they've drilled their holes can attest to how much it sucks doing it that way, as opposed to the way annotated above.

Hope that's not too confusing? :msp_scared:


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## OlympicYJ (May 2, 2013)

Nope follered ya every step. That be the way to do it. Try in to countersink after the through holes is a pita. Any thoughts on a threaded backing plate? Instead of a whole nother plate maybe just bars... dunno if there'd be an advantage than just not having to have a bunch of nuts. Get appropriate bolt size (head wise) so they cab be tightened with a bar wrench. As for boards should be gettin some ash for the mill soon. Or just use good ole df.

Wes

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> Nope follered ya every step. That be the way to do it. Try in to countersink after the through holes is a pita. Any thoughts on a threaded backing plate? Instead of a whole nother plate maybe just bars... dunno if there'd be an advantage than just not having to have a bunch of nuts. Get appropriate bolt size (head wise) so they cab be tightened with a bar wrench. As for boards should be gettin some ash for the mill soon. Or just use good ole df.
> 
> Wes
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



I reckon a guy could put a fancy pants backing plate on there, but then you're just adding weight.

Of all the pictures I've seen of the old timey boards, they all had between 2 and 3 bolts through the shoe and just stuck out the bottom. A guy ain't holding much on there, so 3 bolts and a nut/washer combo should do just dandy.


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2013)

Willy, yer shoes should be in yer paws Saturday? Monday at the latest.


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## Cfaller (May 3, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Willy, yer shoes should be in yer paws Saturday? Monday at the latest.



Nate, the shoes look great. I'll post some pics when I get them all together. Thanks again.:msp_thumbsup:


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## Metals406 (May 14, 2013)

Anyone carve out a nice piece of 1/4 sawn yet and make their board? opcorn:


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## Gologit (May 14, 2013)

Not yet. The only thing getting carved on is my right hand. I'll spare you the details but it looks like I'll be typing one handed for awhile.

Meh, it's a blessing in disguise. I'll have more time to look for just the exactly right piece of wood.


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## Metals406 (May 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Not yet. The only thing getting carved on is my right hand. I'll spare you the details but it looks like I'll be typing one handed for awhile.
> 
> Meh, it's a blessing in disguise. I'll have more time to look for just the exactly right piece of wood.



Surgery eh? I hope it fixes what ails ya!

Yeah, put a bug in the ear of your milling guys to look for a nice tight fir that a guy can 1/4 saw a 10" plank from. 

They can look while you're healing up. :msp_biggrin:

I'm kinda getting a hankerin' to make one myself. . . Like I need another project. 

Looks like Southern Montanny is on fire already -- One fire was 200+ acres in a few hours last night, pushed by strong winds. It's windy again today.

I guess Butte got 1" of precip all winter, so they're dry, dry, dry. I bet Cody gets on a fire before I do. :msp_scared:


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2013)

customer was in here yesterday dropping off some scrap ,was telling me of an old growth cedar stump on his property ,and could still see the springboard holes in the stump ,back from the hand sawn days


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Not yet. The only thing getting carved on is my right hand. I'll spare you the details but it looks like I'll be typing one handed for awhile.
> 
> Meh, it's a blessing in disguise. I'll have more time to look for just the exactly right piece of wood.



do you have a way to mill your own board ?


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## Gologit (May 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> do you have a way to mill your own board ?



No, I wish I did. I tried free handing boards and the only thing I got was a good lesson in not being as good with a saw as I thought I was. :msp_biggrin:

I _did_ wind up with some nice fence posts and a good pile of firewood, though.

When the pile of saw chips and noodles was bigger than the pile of useable wood I gave up.


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## Sport Faller (May 14, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Surgery eh? I hope it fixes what ails ya!
> 
> Yeah, put a bug in the ear of your milling guys to look for a nice tight fir that a guy can 1/4 saw a 10" plank from.
> 
> ...



Hey Dammit!, don't be talkin about fire stuff, I don't wanna be wakin up at 2 am to go to work, that's whens I gets mah drankin done LOL


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## Metals406 (May 14, 2013)

Freehand milling takes a lot of practice. Luckily, I have a bunch from doing log work in house building.

I can get real close with some good snapped lines and if I take my time. Then I can throw it through the 12.5" planer to true it up, or use the handy-dandy hand planer.

A guy will need a good 24" tree to quarter a 10" board from. . . Maybe a hair bigger? Then you want some good trim for end checking and you'll wanna wax the pee out'a the ends to let it dry as even as possible.

Any heart wood in the son-of-a-gun will want to crack down the center.


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## Sport Faller (May 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> No, I wish I did. I tried free handing boards and the only thing I got was a good lesson in not being as good with a saw as I thought I was. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> I _did_ wind up with some nice fence posts and a good pile of firewood, though.
> 
> When the pile of saw chips and noodles was bigger than the pile of useable wood I gave up.



LOL, took a nice 2 bushel tree and turned into a very handsome, custom made, toothbrush handle


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> No, I wish I did. I tried free handing boards and the only thing I got was a good lesson in not being as good with a saw as I thought I was. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> I _did_ wind up with some nice fence posts and a good pile of firewood, though.
> 
> When the pile of saw chips and noodles was bigger than the pile of useable wood I gave up.



iv'e been eyeballing my fir when milling ,its hard to get tight grains up and down for 10 inch wide with most of my second growth,they seem to turn to the right or left one end or the other milling them ,if i slab a log in the middle i get some clean boards sometimes ,what are the measurements for a springboard ?and how much taper ? if i slip a couple wedges under a plank far end i can cut taper with my chainsaw mill ,seems like my fir is harder/denser than building stud grade i buy ,i think they are slipping in hemlock and calling it fir


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## strangersfaces (May 14, 2013)

Gologit said:


> ....... I tried free handing boards and the only thing I got was a good lesson in not being as good with a saw as I thought I was. :msp_biggrin:
> .......



[youtube]02QWRo1W4II&NR[/youtube]​


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## Metals406 (May 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> iv'e been eyeballing my fir when milling ,its hard to get tight grains up and down for 10 inch wide with most of my second growth,they seem to turn to the right or left one end or the other milling them ,if i slab a log in the middle i get some clean boards sometimes ,what are the measurements for a springboard ?and how much taper ? if i slip a couple wedges under a plank far end i can cut taper with my chainsaw mill ,seems like my fir is harder/denser than building stud grade i buy ,i think they are slipping in hemlock and calling it fir



Brian, if your fir is big enough around, you should be able to flat saw a board from the center, then cut the heart wood out of it to make it 1/4 sawn.

I'd personally want to stand on a 10" board, 6" would be as skinny as I'd wanna go. 

Here's a good picture Jake posted on FB that shows a side-profile of some boards, and how a guy can cut his taper.

I'd personally start with something square, and lay it out to draw knife the taper, and finish with a flap disk on a grinder, and massage it however from there.


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## Metals406 (May 14, 2013)

Measuring a piece of fir I freehanded here. . . It appears that 1/3 of it would make 1/4 sawn, then heart, then 1/4 again.

So you'd need a 30" tree to make a 10" quarter. :msp_ohmy:


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Measuring a piece of fir I freehanded here. . . It appears that 1/3 of it would make 1/4 sawn, then heart, then 1/4 again.
> 
> So you'd need a 30" tree to make a 10" quarter. :msp_ohmy:



i have 30 inch trees ,but the grains get bigger towards the outside ,most tight grain iv'e come across off my property is 6-7 of tight then they get wider ,it looks like from what i can see they start with a 2 1/2 to 3 inch slab then rip it down part way and can freehand a 45 cut for taper ,they are flat ,not wedge shaped planks like i thought ,i have noticed if the hearts off center i can get some tight grain ,but they seem to wanna twist when drying ,i have more stable wood with a centered heart


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## Metals406 (May 14, 2013)

Sounds like you need some good ol Montucky tight grained fir! :msp_thumbup:

It just grows tougher up here -- so the grain is tight.

And you're correct about centering the heart -- it's is more stable -- but still prone to cracking down the heartwood.

Drive over to Twisp and North of Hwy 2. . . The wood would be a lot tighter than on the coast.


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## Sport Faller (May 14, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Sounds like you need some good ol Montucky tight grained fir! :msp_thumbup:
> 
> It just grows tougher up here -- so the grain is tight.
> 
> ...



Tougher, but you forgot about goosenecks and pistol butts :biggrin:


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## Eccentric (May 14, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> [youtube]02QWRo1W4II&NR[/youtube]​



That was amazing...:msp_thumbup:


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## slowp (May 14, 2013)

If there is a springboard at the upcoming fleece market, shall I take a few pictures?


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## Gologit (May 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> ...what are the measurements for a springboard ?and how much taper ?




That's the hard part...I've never actually made a springboard myself. Not from scratch. Not a nice fancy one anyway like I'm planning here.

I know, I know, us old farts are 'sposed to have _done_ everything and know how to _do_ everything. I wish that was so. Frequently. Whenever I needed a springboard I just grabbed one off the pile in back of the shop or cut a limb or free handed a little slab of some kind. I want _these_ springboards to be something special.

The ready made boards that we had were made mostly from 2" df if I remember right. Rough cut. I never measured the length but I'd say between five and six feet. The width varied but I only saw a couple of 2x6. Most were 2x8 or 2x10. We had some 2x12s too but those bastards were heavy and I never packed one.

Some were under-tapered directly back from the shoe in a straight line ending at about an inch thick on the end. Others had the full 2" for maybe half the board and then a taper. Some had no taper at all...these tended to gravitate toward the bottom of the pile and I never saw them used.

The ones I liked had a gradual subtle taper starting at the back of the shoe and sweeping back to the end of the board...again ending in about an inch thick. The taper was obviously hand drawn, maybe with a draw knife, because it had a curve to it like the bow sheer on an salmon troller. I don't know that they were any better but they looked nice. And it's what the old timers used. I copied them.


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## Gologit (May 14, 2013)

slowp said:


> If there is a springboard at the upcoming fleece market, shall I take a few pictures?



Sure.


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## slowp (May 14, 2013)

I started reading, Saws That Sing--which can be downloaded by anybody for free. I didn't get far but it talked about how energy from legs on a springboard could be transfered into the sawing process. Not that you'll be using a crosscut saw...just some interesting trivia. 

Hey Nate Metals! Perhaps you could make some cross cut saws that have the taper to them like the old ones do. According to the book, the new saws are not tapered and therefore are not nearly as good as the old timey ones.
It said none are made that way anymore--none.


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## Trx250r180 (May 15, 2013)

Gologit said:


> That's the hard part...I've never actually made a springboard myself. Not from scratch. Not a nice fancy one anyway like I'm planning here.
> 
> I know, I know, us old farts are 'sposed to have _done_ everything and know how to _do_ everything. I wish that was so. Frequently. Whenever I needed a springboard I just grabbed one off the pile in back of the shop or cut a limb or free handed a little slab of some kind. I want _these_ springboards to be something special.
> 
> ...



i don't think it would be too hard to cut a taper on my little mill ,i think with some c-clamps some wedges and careful eyeball measurements ,could make the bottom bow shaped like a boat hull and keep the rough cut look ,a table saw smooths the wood out too much ,a carving bar on a small saw may be able to free hand the bottom curve also to keep the fibers rough looking ,ripping chain makes a huge difference in the finish over chisel ,this is what finish looks like with ripping chain ,real similar to a bandsaw cut View attachment 295485
this log with the offset heart the boards wanted to bow when they started drying ,ones iv'e been cutting with center hearts are drying pretty strait


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## Metals406 (May 15, 2013)

slowp said:


> I started reading, Saws That Sing--which can be downloaded by anybody for free. I didn't get far but it talked about how energy from legs on a springboard could be transfered into the sawing process. Not that you'll be using a crosscut saw...just some interesting trivia.
> 
> Hey Nate Metals! Perhaps you could make some cross cut saws that have the taper to them like the old ones do. According to the book, the new saws are not tapered and therefore are not nearly as good as the old timey ones.
> It said none are made that way anymore--none.



Oh man! Not it! LOL

That would take an immense amount of work to accomplish, and I'd have to learn a completely new skill currently foreign to mah brain. 

I might could read up on it though, just to see.


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## Metals406 (May 15, 2013)

Everything left of the red line is 1/4 sawn, and will be the most dimensionally stable. . . I've noted that around the heart wood (blue dash), when the annual rings are parallel to the cut (flat sawn) that's where the board will want to crack. Has something to do with the way the moisture is getting out, and possible "timber bind" or other pressures. Not to mention end-checking while the boards dry, which is why a good healthy end-trim distance is helpful.


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## slowp (May 15, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Oh man! Not it! LOL
> 
> That would take an immense amount of work to accomplish, and I'd have to learn a completely new skill currently foreign to mah brain.
> 
> I might could read up on it though, just to see.



There is a market. A niche market, but it is there. _Saws That Sing_ says only racing saws are tapered.
You can do it!!!


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## Trx250r180 (May 15, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Everything left of the red line is 1/4 sawn, and will be the most dimensionally stable. . . I've noted that around the heart wood (blue dash), when the annual rings are parallel to the cut (flat sawn) that's where the board will want to crack. Has something to do with the way the moisture is getting out, and possible "timber bind" or other pressures. Not to mention end-checking while the boards dry, which is why a good healthy end-trim distance is helpful.



i think my pc has errors ,i cant see your edited pic


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## Metals406 (May 15, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> i think my pc has errors ,i cant see your edited pic



No, it's my fault! 

I uploaded the bare one and had to do it again. Bet it shows up now.


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## paccity (May 19, 2013)

here are some big springboards that we made for the name of the new building. one is cedar the other is df.


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## bustedup (May 19, 2013)

paccity said:


> here are some big springboards that we made for the name of the new building. one is cedar the other is df.



nice craftsmanship How long it take ya to make em?

glad they for display as wouldn't like to have to pack em lol.


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## Eccentric (May 19, 2013)

Was out clearing brush from an old access road yesterday. Saw these old redwood stumps with springboard holes in 'em. There were a few more like these (much larger) but they were in a dark shaded area. Pics weren't coming out. One was about 10-12' in diameter and had about three or four 2'-3' diameter stems growing out of the middle of it....


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## bustedup (May 19, 2013)

Good pics, wonder when they were falled?


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## Eccentric (May 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Good pics, wonder when they were falled?



That's a good question. I don't think anybody who lives there now has been there for more than 30 years or so. They're southwest of Cazadero, Ca.


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## slowp (May 26, 2013)

There was a springboard at the swap meet. I went up and toured with Brian and Janimay. The board weighed a ton and was thick. Very thick. It was rough sawn and weighed a ton. I could not imagine packing that beast about in the woods. 

Jani took a picture, maybe she'll post it.

I did not find a bath tub to buy.


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## Cfaller (May 27, 2013)

*Finished springboards*

Finally finished the boards. Thanks for the shoes Nate.:msp_thumbsup:View attachment 297475
View attachment 297476
View attachment 297477


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## Gologit (May 27, 2013)

Nice work. What kind of wood did you use?


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## Trx250r180 (May 27, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Nice work. What kind of wood did you use?



looks like 2x8 doug fir from lumber yard ,not the quarter sawn rough like iv'e been watching for ,i find lots of wood with frowns in the end only quarter sawn iv'e come up with is about 6 inches clean tight grain so far


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## Metals406 (May 27, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Finally finished the boards. Thanks for the shoes Nate.:msp_thumbsup:View attachment 297475
> View attachment 297476
> View attachment 297477



Them are too dang purdy to use now!! :msp_w00t: :msp_thumbup:

I like the orange!! 

We need some action shots!

FYI fellas, in any give small town, there are probably a dozen or more guys with a band mill offering their services. I can think of three within 7 miles of me, and more as you go further out. A lot of them will mill for share.

A guy just has to wait on a couple 30" fir, and drag them in. Worst case, freehand mill them with the saw, and have a local cabinet shop run them through their big planer or Timesaver sander. My dad used to do that all the time for jobs/projects where he needed the width of a commercial sander/planer. It was $1.00 per pass -- so not a deal breaker for us common folks.


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## Cfaller (May 27, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Nice work. What kind of wood did you use?



DF. Lumber yard 2X10. Took a 12 footer and cut it in half.


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## Cfaller (May 27, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Them are too dang purdy to use now!! :msp_w00t: :msp_thumbup:
> 
> I like the orange!!
> 
> ...



The orange is so I can find them after I leave them at that stump or was it this one. Do you have a pic of what a piece of 1/4 saw'n DF looks like. If I go a little northwest of here I can find plenty of spruce bud worm killed DF. There is a lot of it on the down hill side of the roads. It is 30 inch plus and east slope tight grained too.


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## Gologit (May 28, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Finally finished the boards. Thanks for the shoes Nate.:msp_thumbsup:View attachment 297475
> View attachment 297476
> View attachment 297477



I like that stripe on the back. I've never walked completely off a board but I've come close. I wear glasses and after awhile the alternating layers of dust, oil, sweat, and general gunk combined with dust in the air and sun glare make it tough to see the end of the board. Or anything else.

I think I'll be painting a stripe on mine, too. If anybody laughs I'll hit them with my bottle of Geritol.


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## OlympicYJ (May 28, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Them are too dang purdy to use now!! :msp_w00t: :msp_thumbup:
> FYI fellas, in any give small town, there are probably a dozen or more guys with a band mill offering their services. I can think of three within 7 miles of me, and more as you go further out. A lot of them will mill for share.
> 
> A guy just has to wait on a couple 30" fir, and drag them in. Worst case, freehand mill them with the saw, and have a local cabinet shop run them through their big planer or Timesaver sander. My dad used to do that all the time for jobs/projects where he needed the width of a commercial sander/planer. It was $1.00 per pass -- so not a deal breaker for us common folks.



Luckily the old man has a band mill :biggrin: He informed me he has an antique shoe sittin on the forge I can board up! I didn't go diggin this weekend. Had my first lazy sleep in weekend in months lol


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## Metals406 (May 28, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> Luckily the old man has a band mill :biggrin: He informed me he has an antique shoe sittin on the forge I can board up! I didn't go diggin this weekend. Had my first lazy sleep in weekend in months lol



I love lazy sleep!! It's my favorite kind! :drool:


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## OlympicYJ (May 28, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I love lazy sleep!! It's my favorite kind! :drool:



Unfortunately highly unproductive! LMAO


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## Metals406 (May 28, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> The orange is so I can find them after I leave them at that stump or was it this one. Do you have a pic of what a piece of 1/4 saw'n DF looks like. If I go a little northwest of here I can find plenty of spruce bud worm killed DF. There is a lot of it on the down hill side of the roads. It is 30 inch plus and east slope tight grained too.



This is a good video, it's not too in depth, but gives a guy a pretty good understanding about basic milling procedure, and grain orientation.

Thinking of growth rings as you would a 2x6, we know that standing a 2x6 on edge, can take a greater load than one laid on it's side. So then, 1/4 sawn with vertical annular rings, would give a board laid in it's side greater strength, as opposed to flat sawn where the rings run parallel to the boards width.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sVBsA1KbfY8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 28, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> This is a good video, it's not too in depth, but gives a guy a pretty good understanding about basic milling procedure, and grain orientation.
> 
> Thinking of growth rings as you would a 2x6, we know that standing a 2x6 on edge, can take a greater load than one laid on it's side. So then, 1/4 sawn with vertical annular rings, would give a board laid in it's side greater strength, as opposed to flat sawn where the rings run parallel to the boards width.
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sVBsA1KbfY8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



great explanation ,i was just getting 2 slabs from center of log that were quarter looking ,never thought of flipping it to get more


----------



## Cfaller (May 28, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> This is a good video, it's not too in depth, but gives a guy a pretty good understanding about basic milling procedure, and grain orientation.
> 
> Thinking of growth rings as you would a 2x6, we know that standing a 2x6 on edge, can take a greater load than one laid on it's side. So then, 1/4 sawn with vertical annular rings, would give a board laid in it's side greater strength, as opposed to flat sawn where the rings run parallel to the boards width.
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sVBsA1KbfY8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Thanks Nate.:msp_smile: I should be able to get four boards out of one tree. I'm thinking about 7 feet long ruffed out. 12 inches wide and 3 inches thick. What do you think?


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## strangersfaces (May 28, 2013)

What is said and shown in the video was mostly right...

He shows one so-called "Modern" method of quartersawing. Note first pic below from the Stephan Woodworking site. Both the vid dude (at about 5:30) AND the pic below are *WRONG* in identifying "Rift sawn" lumber...





​
*Traditional* Plain (aka "Flat"), Quarter and (REAL) Rift sawn, courtesy of Advantage Lumber:




*Real Rift sawn* is the most time consuming and most wasteful method of milling (see graphic above), produces the most dimensionally stable and strongest product (when used flat, as in springboards, as the grain of each board is perpendicular ("on edge") throughout) and also results in the most expensive product. Quartersawn is a close second in strength, stability and cost.

I've purchased loads of finish lumber and custom milling through the years, and of late there seems some oft repeated misinformation being regurgitated as fact... For some reason, several years back I began to notice some "talking heads" describing Rift as having grain angle further away from 90* than Quartersawn. Bunk! Nowadays, it seems most popular "experts" AND many lumber sources repeat the same BS information. I STRONGLY suspect this false view is the product of Large Lumber Manufacturers, who want maximum recovery and highest profits without having to mess with the involved process of TRUE Rift sawing. It's a case of so-called Experts spitting out falsehoods to please these Large Budget ADVERTISERS. Simply untrue. Pisses me off.

Note in pic below (courtesy of Bart Moyers) that when lumber is plain sawn, the first board or two from center of log are "accidentally" Quartersawn! Savvy mill operators pull these to stack in their "Premium Lumber" pile to sell at higher prices. Softwoods such as Fir, Spruce, Pine, etc. are not regularly quartersawn except for specialty markets. Fortunately many mills don't take the time to separate out quartersawn softwood. SO, if one is looking for quartersawn at their local lumber yard, forget checking faces to find straight grain, instead, sight the boards from the ends. You'll likely see boards with grain running near perpendicular from top to bottom of some boards, and THOSE are the ones which will be strongest for springboards...., and will cost no more than the more run of the mill stuff.


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## Metals406 (May 28, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> What is said and shown in the video was mostly right...
> 
> He shows one so-called "Modern" method of quartersawing. Note first pic below from the Stephan Woodworking site. Both the vid dude (at about 5:30) AND the pic below are *WRONG* in identifying "Rift sawn" lumber...
> 
> ...



You are correct. . . The changes in milling verbiage comes from modern 3rd growth timber now in the dimensional market. It's much smaller in diameter than what was available in the past -- so there's been a shift to less waste. The same shift has come over the years for what is classified as actual and nominal definitions in lumber. A far cry difference from today, back to 100 years ago. 1/4, 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, etc -- all meant something in reference to actual board dimension.

The modern "quartersawn" method will produce a good product, based on where in the log the board was cut. Also evident in my description of Brian's board a few pages back, as well as your description of "accidental 1/4 sawn". In the end, it's the responsibility of the contractor or end-user to be able to look at a board and somewhat quickly ascertain where in a log a board was milled. 

You can cull your way through a pile (in some places) and take exactly what you need from it based on how it was milled. sometimes they tell you to bugger off. 

Heart check and end-check are considerations, along with cup, warp, wane, timber-bind, etc. some lumber should never be left plain (flat) sawn with the heart running the length of the board, when two smaller, yet higher quality boards could be cut from the sides.

When trees averaged 3' in diameter, more logs could be sawn from each side, and you might find heartwood only on an edge. Today, you will find that it's almost always centered on a board.

Rift-sawn is the bees knees -- but super rare these days -- really only a specialty cut. As you stated, the terms have less to do with what grain orientation you might get in a couple boards, but more about the way it was milled.

There's definitely something to be said for having access to, or being able to mill your own stuff. That way, you know what you want, you know what you get, and there is no hunting and pecking for it.


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## Metals406 (May 28, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Thanks Nate.:msp_smile: I should be able to get four boards out of one tree. I'm thinking about 7 feet long ruffed out. 12 inches wide and 3 inches thick. What do you think?



Sounds good to me! If you're 3" thick, that's where you might study old pictures for a taper. I'm seeing some now, where it was actually a compound taper. I'm sure it was done for weight reduction, but also could add to strenght.

Meaning, not only was it tapered to the tail, but also radiused along the underside on the boards width. I would think that would be super strong, as you've now created two intersecting arches (way strong!).


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## Cfaller (Jun 3, 2013)

Nate, tried the boards today. I need to move the shoe back, so their is wood under the shoe. I found some 30"+ DF but it has been dead awhile. How long should it last before you wouldn't use it? I bored a few of them and it was a mixture of dust and chips.


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## Metals406 (Jun 3, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Nate, tried the boards today. I need to move the shoe back, so their is wood under the shoe. I found some 30"+ DF but it has been dead awhile. How long should it last before you wouldn't use it? I bored a few of them and it was a mixture of dust and chips.



Good to know! You're certainly the guinea pig as far as I'm concerned. I've never mounted one before.

That fir sounds sketchy, and pithy. You could rough out a 2' board on the end and inspect the grain. It may be that it's just the live-edge and 2" inside that is getting bad, and the rest could be sound?

You could also call Pyramid in Seeley and pick someones brain -- they may have some rough cut you could grab right off the head saw (not sure if they have a scrag there?) -- and the drive wouldn't be so bad for ya. Or you might find a small mill closer to ya?

Really, for bigger fir, the closer you get to the Swan, the better your chances of snagging one. I reckon Pondy might actually make a decent board as well -- you and I both know how stringy that crap is when ya try and split it.


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## Cfaller (Jun 4, 2013)

Springboard revision #1 View attachment 298608


How is this for some tight grained 1/4 saw Doug Fir?:hmm3grin2orange: View attachment 298609

I bet you can't cut any of that on the coast.:msp_wink:


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## jrcat (Jun 4, 2013)

Cfaller your attachments are invalid


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## Cfaller (Jun 4, 2013)

I have it fixed.


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## Metals406 (Jun 4, 2013)

That's some good looking fir! If a guy has to have some heart in it, better to have it on one edge like ya got too.

Now to hand shape it eh? :msp_wink:


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## Cfaller (Jun 12, 2013)

Nate here is your action shot.View attachment 299826

I need to work on my springboard notch some. I'm thinking their is an art to putting them in.:msp_unsure:


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## Metals406 (Jun 12, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Nate here is your action shot.View attachment 299826
> 
> I need to work on my springboard notch some. I'm thinking their is an art to putting them in.:msp_unsure:



Awesome! :msp_thumbup:

If you're on FB, we should friend each other so I can share that shot on my wall and a couple logger groups. 

I feel ya on the notch thing, I've never cut one in. I reckon a guy wants it at a slight downward angle though, to allow it to settle into near level.


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## Cfaller (Jun 17, 2013)

One of the new boards for the 1/4 sawn spring boards. Found the tree in the bottom of a draw and milled the boards in place. View attachment 300772

View attachment 300771

Any idea on how they put the dark finish on the springboards in this thread?


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## Gologit (Jun 17, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> One of the new boards for the 1/4 sawn spring boards. Found the tree in the bottom of a draw and milled the boards in place. View attachment 300772
> 
> View attachment 300771
> 
> Any idea on how they put the dark finish on the springboards in this thread?




Linseed oil?


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## Cfaller (Jun 17, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Linseed oil?



Ok boss, I'll give it a try.Thanks:msp_biggrin:


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## Gologit (Jun 17, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Ok boss, I'll give it a try.Thanks:msp_biggrin:



Forgot to add...use what they call _boiled_ linseed oil. Several light coats, letting it dry thoroughly between coats. That's all I remember about how they were treated. There might also be better methods...this one falls into the "that's how we used to do it" category.

We had some Italian guys who swore by using olive oil but I never found out how that worked out for them.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 17, 2013)

linseed oil is good stuff, doesn't really darken right away though that come mostly with use... you could put some light stain on first and then rub it down with linseed oil. 

I still use linseed oil on my axe handles and shovels etc. Also make a good protective layer on steel and bits that get rusty, just let it dry overnight.

You can also thin it down with either paint thinner or lighter fluid makes it seep into the wood deeper and faster and drys quicker.

Or just soak the damn thing in bar oil... the cheap red stuff...


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## Metals406 (Jun 18, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Nate here is your action shot.View attachment 299826
> 
> I need to work on my springboard notch some. I'm thinking their is an art to putting them in.:msp_unsure:



Will, got a guy in a FB group asking what saw you're using in this picture. Spill dah beans! LOL


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## Metals406 (Jun 18, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> One of the new boards for the 1/4 sawn spring boards. Found the tree in the bottom of a draw and milled the boards in place. View attachment 300772
> 
> View attachment 300771
> 
> Any idea on how they put the dark finish on the springboards in this thread?



That's some gorgeous wood!! :msp_thumbsup:

There are many finishes for wood, all of the suggestions so far will work great, even olive oil.

For all my tool handles, I tried Western Family Canola Oil (in the can) a few years ago. By God, it work pretty dang good! Lasts a full season before a guy has to give her another squirt, and that's with a tool left in the weather for 12 months. If the wood is too dry and checked, you have to spray it multiple times to really soak it. _ It does darken the wood as well._

Canola is rapeseed oil, I've found most seed oils will work -- even grapeseed. Grapeseed is more expensive though. If you want to not buy the $2.00 cans of spray, I imagine you could buy the gallon stuff and thin it with a good "carrier" (like Naptha or Lacquer thinner), and give it a few coats.

Rapeseed and the others aren't what I would call a true drying oil, but the spray can stuff actually dries pretty good to the touch, and isn't sticky.
Drying oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to go with a 'commercial' coating -- it's hard to beat Penofin Blue label: Blue Label Penofin | Penofin Penetrating Oil Finishes and Wood Stain

Made from Brazilian Rosewood Oil.


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## Cfaller (Jun 18, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Will, got a guy in a FB group asking what saw you're using in this picture. Spill dah beans! LOL


Nate, my Mastermind 562xp. The rest of the tree was done with a Monkeyed 390xp with a 33" tsumara light weight bar.. The 562 is just a fun saw to run.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Cfaller (Jun 22, 2013)

So Nate what do you think? I took a draw knife to it to round the sides of it. The picture was take'n with a go pro so it's a little weird looking. 

View attachment 301428
View attachment 301429


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## Metals406 (Jun 25, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> So Nate what do you think? I took a draw knife to it to round the sides of it. The picture was take'n with a go pro so it's a little weird looking.
> 
> View attachment 301428
> View attachment 301429



That baby is heirloom quality now!!


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## Cfaller (Jul 2, 2013)

Finished the first one. It is 10" wide at the front and 5' long. The next one I will do, will only be a 4 footer and a little lighter.
View attachment 302907

View attachment 302908

Is it fixed?


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## Metals406 (Jul 2, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Finished the first one. It is 10" wide at the front and 5' long. The next one I will do, will only be a 4 footer and a little lighter.
> View attachment 302820
> View attachment 302821



Willy, your attachments aren't working dude.


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## Metals406 (Nov 21, 2013)

Anyone named Bob mount some shoes on a flat stick yet?

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk


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## Gologit (Nov 21, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Anyone named Bob mount some shoes on a flat stick yet?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk




You just had to ask, didn't you. No, not yet. I have the boards but every time I start to fit them up something else comes along and they get pushed to the back of the work bench. Give me some time and I'll think up some other good excuses. I gave one of them away. Farley9N's son in law wanted one so I shipped it out.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 21, 2013)

I keep looking at fir logs when i run the chainsaw mill ,have not come across any i have been happy enough to make nice springboards with yet ,grains not tight enough on stuff i been finding


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## Metals406 (Nov 21, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You just had to ask, didn't you. No, not yet. I have the boards but every time I start to fit them up something else comes along and they get pushed to the back of the work bench. Give me some time and I'll think up some other good excuses. I gave one of them away. Farley9N's son in law wanted one so I shipped it out.


Sure Bob, use all the excuses I come up with. 

Hope his SIL gets some good use out'a it! How did he see one of'em? Is he a member?


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## Metals406 (Nov 21, 2013)

Trx250r180 said:


> I keep looking at fir logs when i run the chainsaw mill ,have not come across any i have been happy enough to make nice springboards with yet ,grains not tight enough on stuff i been finding



Brian, if you want tight grain fir, you're going to have to import it from Montucky pard.


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## Gologit (Nov 21, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Sure Bob, use all the excuses I come up with.
> 
> Hope his SIL gets some good use out'a it! How did he see one of'em? Is he a member?


 

He saw the thread when we were chasing that first shipment around the Pacific Rim. I don't think he's a member but he ought to be. Heck of a good guy.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 21, 2013)

it


Metals406 said:


> Brian, if you want tight grain fir, you're going to have to import it from Montucky pard.


it's around here somewhere ,just most of the second growth i keep finding rings get big towards the outside of the log ,as much as 1/4 inch between the rings on a lot of them


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## Gologit (Nov 21, 2013)

[deleted


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## Metals406 (Nov 21, 2013)

Trx250r180 said:


> it
> 
> it's around here somewhere ,just most of the second growth i keep finding rings get big towards the outside of the log ,as much as 1/4 inch between the rings on a lot of them



Heck, this summer -- I cut up a dead DF that was 220 years old -- and 20" on the butt. Kinda felt bad fer a second, then I got over it.


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## Metals406 (Nov 21, 2013)

Gologit said:


> [deleted



Bob, why are you deleting things?

What are you hiding? opcorn:


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## Gologit (Nov 22, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Bob, why are you deleting things?
> 
> What are you hiding? opcorn:



Hiding? Hiding my inability to get used to the new format. I was trying to edit a post and then wanted to delete it and couldn't really figure out how.

Be nice... I'm having to think and it's hard to do eight cylinder work with six cylinder equipment.


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## madhatte (Nov 22, 2013)

Just pretend you're one of those fancy Cadillacs that can shut two off to save gas.


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