# Siswheel vs Soft Dutchman



## fmaglin (Sep 20, 2009)

I would like to know what would be the major differences between using a siswheel versus a soft dutchman to swing a tree away from its lean, and what effects or benefits would be different between the two? Thanks.


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## John Ellison (Sep 20, 2009)

IMHO Dutchman cuts and the different varieties of them are a matter of degree. Some trees will be harder to swing so you have to use every advantage you can to make it work. The siswheel? is used to keep the hinge wood on the upper side from breaking off too early. Without it the hinge is closing/bending over the lower cut of the face, so it breaks sooner. Like breaking a stick over your knee compared to breaking it between your hands.

The "soft" dutchman is relief cuts that are put in the far side of the tree that let the tree swing around more gradually so there is less chance of loosing it. You are changing the lean of the tree and it needs to be done smoothly and without stoping the tree in the middle of the process. 
To me anytime the lower part of the hinge is severed befor or during the fell it is a dutchman, again a matter of degree. 

Softwood trees already have a kind of built in soft dutchman because their end grain will compress easier than most hardwoods.

I don't know your experience level but these cuts are frowned on or maybe even illegal in some circles,and for good reasons. On some trees you could be flirting with a barberchair all thru the backcut. Misjudge the side lean (which is what these cuts are all about) and your saw will be pinched and the tree will be coming right toward your head.

If you are going to experiment, shorter trees of a kind that arent barberchair prone would be the best. Might be a little harder to get moving(less leverage) but you can usually get away with stalling them out.
Hope I dont sound like an expert because I am still experimenting and still losing them. Occasionally


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## fmaglin (Sep 20, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> IMHO Dutchman cuts and the different varieties of them are a matter of degree. Some trees will be harder to swing so you have to use every advantage you can to make it work. The siswheel? is used to keep the hinge wood on the upper side from breaking off too early. Without it the hinge is closing/bending over the lower cut of the face, so it breaks sooner. Like breaking a stick over your knee compared to breaking it between your hands.
> 
> The "soft" dutchman is relief cuts that are put in the far side of the tree that let the tree swing around more gradually so there is less chance of loosing it. You are changing the lean of the tree and it needs to be done smoothly and without stoping the tree in the middle of the process.
> To me anytime the lower part of the hinge is severed befor or during the fell it is a dutchman, again a matter of degree.
> ...


Thanks for your input John. I certainly am not an expert. I'm 61 years old and purchase hardwood trees for my cabinet and door business and have done my own falling for about the last 5 years. Last month I had 17 Black Locust trees that were between 14 to16 inch DBH. All of them had a natural lean toward electric lines in the power company's easement. I wanted to use a soft dutchman to turn them but to stay safe I ended up pulling them. I've got a few trees to fall this week that would be good candidates to experiment with.


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## John Ellison (Sep 20, 2009)

You made a good decision. I would never try to swing a tree that I could not afford to lose, or let get away from me.


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## fmaglin (Sep 20, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> You made a good decision. I would never try to swing a tree that I could not afford to lose, or let get away from me.



Yup, I wouldn't even want to think about what it would have cost me if I lost one.


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## Gologit (Sep 21, 2009)

fmaglin said:


> Yup, I wouldn't even want to think about what it would have cost me if I lost one.



Lots. Don't ask me how I know this.  I think it's good to try out new techniques but, like John says, there are times to experiment and times not to. Those trees have a mind of their own sometimes.


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## fmaglin (Sep 21, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Lots. Don't ask me how I know this.  I think it's good to try out new techniques but, like John says, there are times to experiment and times not to. Those trees have a mind of their own sometimes.



I don't know if there's a lot of truth in this; but, the fella that owns the tract where I'm currently cutting has a Trans-Atlantic Fiber Optic cable running through his woods. He claims that the cable is buried about 3' deep and that if it should get damaged the repair could cost someone 3 million per minute. I thought it sounded a bit far fetched, but you never know and definitely would not want to find out.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 21, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> You made a good decision. I would never try to swing a tree that I could not afford to lose, or let get away from me.



:agree2: WELL SAID most of us learn by doing but you need to make sure you pick the right tree to learn on!!!


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