# Welding bars together to make them longer



## knezzer97 (Feb 5, 2022)

Greetings folks 

I don’t know if this is crazy or nuts but I’m thinking about welding 2 36” bars together for a saw mill to use on my 076, just wondering if anyone has done it and if it’s safe to do

I can tig weld and do all that good stuff just don’t want the bar to break in half due to stress while milling 

Any ideas


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## singinwoodwackr (Feb 6, 2022)

Uh…no…just no.


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## BobL (Feb 6, 2022)

For a start bars are not parallel but have a belly so welding 2 x 36" bars will have no belly and worse end up with a weird saddle in the middle on both sides. 
These saddles will be a good opportunity point for the chain to jump the bar.
A 72" bar wlll be somewhat wider belly than any 36" bar which also helps the chain to stay on.
The big bar in this pic is only a 60" bar and look bellied and how wide it is.



The you have no idea what the welding will do to the metallurgical properties of the bar.
Most likely it will soften the join especially at the groove rails, so chances are it will wear them - fast.
Big bars have considerable sag so softening the join is likely to cause more problems.


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## frank_ (Feb 6, 2022)

go for it imo, would need to be spliced tho


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## knezzer97 (Feb 6, 2022)

BobL said:


> For a start bars are not parallel but have a belly so welding 2 x 36" bars will have no belly and worse end up with a weird saddle in the middle on both sides.
> These saddles will be a good opportunity point for the chain to jump the bar.
> A 72" bar wlll be somewhat wider belly than any 36" bar which also helps the chain to stay on.
> The big bar in this pic is only a 60" bar and look bellied and how wide it is.
> ...


Those will be the bars I’d be welding up they are fairly parallel with no belly, so the belly of a bar is to account for sag in the chain?


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## singinwoodwackr (Feb 6, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Those will be the bars I’d be welding up they are fairly parallel with no belly, so the belly of a bar is to account for sag in the chain?


Make sure your medical Ins is paid up before using


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## knezzer97 (Feb 6, 2022)

singinwoodwackr said:


> Make sure your medical Ins is paid up before using


I live in Ontario Canada so it’s all good


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## BobL (Feb 6, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Those will be the bars I’d be welding up they are fairly parallel with no belly, so the belly of a bar is to account for sag in the chain?



Bar belly doesn't eliminate sag so some sort of anti sagging device is still required.

'Fairly" should be just enough to cause problems.
Keeping the chain on the bar will be less of a problem than messing with the hardness. any welding is likely to cause.


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 6, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Those will be the bars I’d be welding up they are fairly parallel with no belly, so the belly of a bar is to account for sag in the chain?


This is madness?


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 6, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Greetings folks
> 
> I don’t know if this is crazy or nuts but I’m thinking about welding 2 36” bars together for a saw mill to use on my 076, just wondering if anyone has done it and if it’s safe to do
> 
> ...


Buy a longer bar = spend money. OR. Cobble up some gizmo that explodes, and takes out your leg like a sharkbite. There is no such thing as making guide bars with a welder.......and if there is, thats a Mad Max 3 sequel.


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## swingdjted (Feb 7, 2022)

Chances are there's someone out there that depends on you for something and/or cares about you. Think about that for good while.


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 7, 2022)

swingdjted said:


> Chances are there's someone out there that depends on you for something and/or cares about you. Think about that for good while.


Safety First with chainsaws. Those wishing to re-invent the wheel, have hundreds of old bicycles to restore.


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## Bill G (Feb 7, 2022)

It seems that many think you are crazy to try it. I do not agree with them. I see no reason why to not try it. It may not work or it might. First I have seen bars that were welded, it is possible to do. If you are a skilled welder you know that the quality of the steel will be important. Starting with goof quality bars is essential. Next as for the belly that is easy to deal with. You said you want to use it for milling so I assume you will be using a oiler/helper handle. You are not going to get 72 inches but cut the bars at equal spots and weld them end to end. Then mount your oiler or handle. As for safety I lost at that...... What do folks think is going to happen??? For gosh sakes if the weld fails the chain will come off and bind up. It will be no different than any chain throw on a long bar. Where would the world be without folks that have ingenuity.

Bill


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## northmanlogging (Feb 7, 2022)

geeslus crust, its only steel, it can be welded, but its not mild steel, so take some forethought on that first, perhaps a little preheat? Not exactly high carbon steel either, its more tough then hard, at a guess I'm gonna call it some chromemolly alloy, the one I cut up years ago for a home brew "light bar" cut really well, the edges are hard ish... but not really all that hard, if a file can dress them with ease, then its not very ******* hard. 

Modern bars are mostly laser/cnc plasma cut, then the rail groove is cut, so I highly doubt that heat input is going to be detrimental. though you may make a soft spot that will bend easy. 

Anyway, all that out of the way, finding 2 bars that are parallel and straight enough to match up will be the big issue, besides welding them together and keeping the whole works straight and true, bars have either a taper towards the power head (fat nosed) or an overall belly to em, and it is to keep the chain from flopping about too much. not to mention cutting out the slot so it still works as a guide bar and not a side note with a funny story in your scrap pile. 

long run, I'm going to say its cheaper and wiser to just order yourself a long bar from Cannon or whoever is making them now, even get em with slots on both ends for mounting either a stinger handle, or another power head


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## northmanlogging (Feb 7, 2022)

come to think of it, I"ve welded bars more then a few times, they weld just fine, and hold like any other decent weld, as I said, its good steel, and comes in handy for homebrew tooling and other random projects... besides I have/had a pile of bent or broken bars so they were around to be messed with (learning how to swing trees with little or no instruction... did you know if you stick with the tree too long trying to steer it... it sits on your bar and takes the saw with it?)


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## ATpro (Feb 7, 2022)

He will have a big problem controlling warp, would need to tig weld on both sides, not something I would try and I'm a certified welder.


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## BIG JAKE (Feb 7, 2022)

I had a damaged bar tip where the sprocket nose joins and rivets to the bar on one of my 32’s that I welded. Worked fine never had a problem. 
If you have two bars lay them on top of each other and slide them apart to where you think you want to cut them and note the widths at that point whether they match or not. I don’t think it will work due to the bars profiles mentioned earlier. If at that point you think it could work take a junk bar and cut in half, then weld it together and see how it works/test bar strength.
If it were me I would buy a Cannon in the proper length and get to milling.


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## halfmile (Feb 7, 2022)

Pay up your health insurance and go for it.

HM


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## Pudsy (Feb 7, 2022)

All the comments on "insurance", problems avoiding warping and just buying a factory issue long bar would seem wise to me, but something tells me you'll give it a shot anyway 

So, if you decide to live an adventurous life and go go for it, possibly you could consider cutting the bars lengthwise and opening them up a little toward the center of the "new" bar to create a belly. This will also allow you to use more of the "almost parallel" (but not quite) length of the original bars. You'll need to do a bit of a fancy "T" or "Y" cut toward the tip and base to avoid warping the metal too much there though while bending the bar open, or work with 6 separated parts (base, tip and 4 length of side), but it will give you more flexibility in assembling an optimal line of guidance for the groove. No need to completely fill the "gap" you'll create in the center, just some bridges to keep everything together - plenty of hollowed/drilled light weight bars around.
Also, use material thinner than the bar for the bridges, so you have some "L"-shaped joints to fill on each side of the bar/bridge, without the weld sticking out of the original bar surface. If the bar is say 4-5mm, use 2mm steel sheet for the bridges or some such.

Like ATpro mentioned, the real challenge will be to keep the whole "project" aligned in (mostly) flat plane. Spot welding a limited amount of bridges (as opposed to full length welds), putting in less heat and allowing to cool between welds may also help with that.


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## serdie (Feb 7, 2022)

Pudsy said:


> All the comments on "insurance", problems avoiding warping and just buying a factory issue long bar would seem wise to me, but something tells me you'll give it a shot anyway
> 
> So, if you decide to live an adventurous life and go go for it, possibly you could consider cutting the bars lengthwise and opening them up a little toward the center of the "new" bar to create a belly. This will also allow you to use more of the "almost parallel" (but not quite) length of the original bars. You'll need to do a bit of a fancy "T" or "Y" cut toward the tip and base to avoid warping the metal too much there though while bending the bar open, or work with 6 separated parts (base, tip and 4 length of side), but it will give you more flexibility in assembling an optimal line of guidance for the groove. No need to completely fill the "gap" you'll create in the center, just some bridges to keep everything together - plenty of hollowed/drilled light weight bars around.
> Also, use material thinner than the bar for the bridges, so you have some "L"-shaped joints to fill on each side of the bar/bridge, without the weld sticking out of the original bar surface. If the bar is say 4-5mm, use 2mm steel sheet for the bridges or some such.
> ...


Hell! Go for it! It’s weird, unsafe, unpractical, but if it works it’s worth it! I firmly believe in innovation and have tried some really weird stuff before that’s worked. Just be careful


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## ATpro (Feb 7, 2022)

Ok if your going to do this you first need to know what type of bars you have, Laminate bar or Solid bar, both have to be the same. I suggest tig weld because you can control the heat better and reduce warping better. The best way to weld is lock the bars in a vice about half way down the bars and tack weld both sides in 2 or 3 places, remove the bars and grind welds flat the put the bars back in the vice and tack weld the lower side, remove from vice and grind flat. Put the bar back in the vice and weld one side then the other, alternating from side to side as you weld, take your time to allow heat to disperse, leave in vice till cool then remove and grind flat, turn over lock in vice and do the lower side of bar. You can re-cut the chain groove with a dremel tool


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## MFV (Feb 7, 2022)

We got some pretty good welders at work and I think you can weld about anything that you want with the right weld procedure. That being said there could be several steps to weld it out correctly pmi and possibly pre and post weld heat treatment but I bet you can do it


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## calamari (Feb 8, 2022)

Here's my suggestion since everybody else seems to have one. I think you need to use at least three bars of the same make and model to make one of the proper length. I'd make three heavy paper/light cardboard templates of the bar you're going to use and then start cutting and overlaying them to get something that meets the shape you need. You may need to split a bar to get a graft longitudinal piece to fit in the middle of the bar to make it wider to keep the curve therefore three bars. When you get what you like, you've got the patterns to begin cutting.
It's going to be very flexible and could affect how it cuts depending on if your mill runs the bar vertically or horizontally. Post some pictures. I have a vague recollection of seeing a big bar made up of pieces from the distant past. Maybe the guy I knew in Fortuna that cut up old growth redwood stumps he'd drag out of the Eel River.


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## AZWoodworker (Feb 8, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> geeslus crust, its only steel, it can be welded, but its not mild steel, so take some forethought on that first, perhaps a little preheat? Not exactly high carbon steel either, its more tough then hard, at a guess I'm gonna call it some chromemolly alloy, the one I cut up years ago for a home brew "light bar" cut really well, the edges are hard ish... but not really all that hard, if a file can dress them with ease, then its not very ******* hard.
> 
> Modern bars are mostly laser/cnc plasma cut, then the rail groove is cut, so I highly doubt that heat input is going to be detrimental. though you may make a soft spot that will bend easy.
> 
> ...


Some of these bars are 500 dollars or more. Can't see the cheaper part, but maybe the wiser. Not understand why 24 in the bar is 30 or 40 dollars but 76 is 500 hundred or more. They can charge what they want but that doesn't mean I have to buy it. I get used Bars that are in good condition. But this is only an expensive and labor-consuming hobby.


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## AZWoodworker (Feb 8, 2022)

I've welded only some but many of these new bars are laminated now. Wonder how much this would affect it. Solid bars would operate differently in welding. Granberg only recommends solid bars for some of their mills.


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## knezzer97 (Feb 8, 2022)

thank you all for the very informative information....... i am just waiting for the bars to come in from the west coast then i will start welding at least two together to make a 50"ish bar... In the mean time i was looking around on Kijiji (like craigslist) and found a 72" laser mills bar and mill only problem is the tail end is massive around 5 inches and i believe the standard large mount stihl bars are around 3.5- 4" in width i am wondering if this would be a better option is to cut down the tail and recut the channel back into the bar


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## calamari (Feb 8, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> thank you all for the very informative information....... i am just waiting for the bars to come in from the west coast then i will start welding at least two together to make a 50"ish bar... In the mean time i was looking around on Kijiji (like craigslist) and found a 72" laser mills bar and mill only problem is the tail end is massive around 5 inches and i believe the standard large mount stihl bars are around 3.5- 4" in width i am wondering if this would be a better option is to cut down the tail and recut the channel back into the bar


I'd say the 72" bar modification would be way easier and with a better finished product! A 4" angle grinder with a very thin cutoff wheel would cut the new groiove I'd bet pretty easily. The hardest part would be making a guide to keep the wheel parallel to the bar's surface. If it cuts an inconsistent depth that shouldn't matter as long as it's not so deep it makes the rails weak and then can't keep the chain located properly. I bet that's not a cheap bar so you'd want to experiment on a scarp bar.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 8, 2022)

AZWoodworker said:


> Some of these bars are 500 dollars or more. Can't see the cheaper part, but maybe the wiser. Not understand why 24 in the bar is 30 or 40 dollars but 76 is 500 hundred or more. They can charge what they want but that doesn't mean I have to buy it. I get used Bars that are in good condition. But this is only an expensive and labor-consuming hobby.


couple reasons that they get expensive. 
supply and demand being not the only reason
bars have tolerances, any machined product will have tolerances, but the longer a thing gets the harder it is to hold tighter tolerances, and for a long bar to be worth owning, those same tolerances need to be held to even tighter standards, those standards ain't cheap especially considering the scrap rates will go up with tighter tolerances, and it simply takes more skill to hold said tolerances. 

And no just putting them in a CNC machine doesn't magically make tight tolerances easy to hold, it helps, but you still need fixturing, and a machine large enough to cut 72" or more in one set up, machines that large are not cheap

then figure that long bars are not real common, you have to account for set up times as well, set up takes time regardless of length or type, but when you make 1000 of them you can spread the cost out over 1000 parts, but when you might make 10 per year, those same set up costs are spread over a mere 10 parts. 

As for the Cannon Bars, I'm pretty sure they make them as ordered, so every single bar is treated as a custom order, hence you eat the set up costs on each one, for Cannon to sell them for $5-700 is really pretty cheap all things considered.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 8, 2022)

either way, I think the attempt is valid, but the results may not be worth the effort, even though I fully support the effort.


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## knezzer97 (Feb 8, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> either way, I think the attempt is valid, but the results may not be worth the effort, even though I fully support the effort.


i will be posting updates and pics along the journey lol


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## AZWoodworker (Feb 8, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> couple reasons that they get expensive.
> supply and demand being not the only reason
> bars have tolerances, any machined product will have tolerances, but the longer a thing gets the harder it is to hold tighter tolerances, and for a long bar to be worth owning, those same tolerances need to be held to even tighter standards, those standards ain't cheap especially considering the scrap rates will go up with tighter tolerances, and it simply takes more skill to hold said tolerances.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I noted the supply and demand aspect but did not realize quantity would be that low and did not know the specs issues so thanks for the education. I am going to have to spend that soon and being genetically cheap by race it always hurts a bit. Little more information helps the natural pain.


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 8, 2022)

Is it practical? No. Is it safe? No. Does it make sense? No. 
Can you do so for free? If so, have at it. 30% are encouraging the fool-hardy exercise. The majority say, don't do it, buy a proper bar. Lets put this thread, to bed.


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## knezzer97 (Feb 8, 2022)

Captain Bruce said:


> Is it practical? No. Is it safe? No. Does it make sense? No.
> Can you do so for free? If so, have at it. 30% are encouraging the fool-hardy exercise. The majority say, don't do it, buy a proper bar. Lets put this thread, to bed.


might not make sense to you but in Canada a 72" bar is 800$ im just starting out milling and im not spending that money on a bar till i can make some money. i have 2 bars laying around and not gunna gunna cost me a dime.

sorry to upset you captain bruce


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 8, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> might not make sense to you but in Canada a 72" bar is 800$ im just starting out milling and im not spending that money on a bar till i can make some money. i have 2 bars laying around and not gunna gunna cost me a dime.
> 
> sorry to upset you captain bruce


First off, I'm a fellow Canuck. (Essex County) Secondly, your assumption that you upset anyone with this crazy scheme is pointless. You asked, the internet answered. When the majority of the replies suggest it doesn't make sense, than it doesn't. Nuff said.
I would appreciate a link to the vendors store/site, showing that $800 cost figure.........given that it is the lowest of all your shopping thus far......P.S. : There is a marketplace somewhere on this site. Maybe someone will see this and come fwd., albeit in a seperate thread, offering up what you hope to achieve, for much less. If you simply do not want to spend any money, than you are off and running. Hope to see photos of the finished weld. Good Luck and Work Safe!


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## knezzer97 (Feb 8, 2022)

Captain Bruce said:


> First off, I'm a fellow Canuck. (Essex County) Secondly, your assumption that you upset anyone with this crazy scheme is pointless. You asked, the internet answered. When the majority of the replies suggest it doesn't make sense, than it doesn't. Nuff said.
> I would appreciate a link to the vendors store/site, showing that $800 cost figure.........given that it is the lowest of all your shopping thus far......P.S. : There is a marketplace somewhere on this site. Maybe someone will see this and come fwd., albeit in a seperate thread, offering up what you hope to achieve, for much less. If you simply do not want to spend any money, than you are off and running. Hope to see photos of the finished weld. Good Luck and Work Safe!


thank you for your opinion. im asking for pointers when doing it, i am going to do it regardless of what anyone says not because im stupid or an idiot because i want to know about the possible outcomes and benefits. im sure there where lots of people saying don't port your cylinders its unsafe and it'll blow your saw, now look where this has gotten with porting jobs. 

all I am saying i don't know why you would comment saying "Lets put this thread, to bed" when this could help a lot of people maybe in a pinch or what not all idea and opinions all always welcome as far as im concerned

also the $800 price tag was from a local dealer cannon doesn't give prices that i have seen


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## calamari (Feb 8, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> might not make sense to you but in Canada a 72" bar is 800$ im just starting out milling and im not spending that money on a bar till i can make some money. i have 2 bars laying around and not gunna gunna cost me a dime.
> 
> sorry to upset you captain bruce


Some people are just cautious by nature. 70% of people who post on a forum is not a definitive answer to any question. Keep looking for info. 
I think you're going to need at least three trash bars to do it. I also think that the reason the commercial bar is so large top to bottom is to deal with the bar's flex. They may require a larger style chain too. Making one out of shorter bars may be very flexible because you're using narrower, and maybe thinner, bars to start from. You may need to use even more than three bars to get a long one that is rigid enough. I think you'll have quite a few weld lines and not just the two you were hoping for and it may look like Frakenstein's monster's face before you're through. I bet it's still doable but you'll call it "Frankenbar." It all revolves around how good a welder and metal worker you are. I bet you'll have several failures before you get one you like enough to put a chain on. Welding heat is your real enemy and warping is what will kill the bar. Oiling the bar may be an issue too.
Here's some info about guys not afraid of their bars plus other stuff you might find useful. Amazon has 72" bars for both Stihl and Husqvarna for less than $400 US. That's getting close to it not being worth the effort to save money on a tar baby project. I can't get links to Amazon's pages to show up on this site that show the bars so you'll have to research it yourself.













How Steel Chainsaw Bars are Made - Stihl Factory Tour


If you've ever wondered how steel chainsaw guide bars are made, we went to Germany to check out Stihl's manufacturing process and report in.




www.protoolreviews.com


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## Franny K (Feb 8, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> also the $800 price tag was from a local dealer cannon doesn't give prices that i have seen











G1-72-63- Double Ended Sawmilling Bar | Wood Slabs and Sawmills | New England Pine | United States


72" double-ended bar for .063 chain. Can be used in 3/8 or .404.	(0.375 Pitch = 213 Drive Links, 0.404 Pitch = 194 Drive Links)	Guide to guide slabbing width of ~60" with two powerheads	Can be utilized in a single bar configuration with a helper handle roller. The best chainsaw bars in the...




www.newenglandpine.com





Cannon did answer my emails promptly, I wanted a large nose hard nose bar at the time which they do not offer. I asked about some surplus left over stuff they listed on their site but was not my idea of a close out deal.

If you do weld up one I am with the guy that says start with 3 bars, cut two where they are the biggest and then split the third down the middle and use scraps from the first two to fill in the void. If you do anything but stitch weld likely will need chill bars and fixture. Maybe only get 70% or so of the third one in increased length. It seems there are gadgets to hold the bar up in the middle at the start of the cut so if you made your own perhaps could put a crown in it so it is flat naturally when supported from the ends.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 8, 2022)

AZWoodworker said:


> Thanks, I noted the supply and demand aspect but did not realize quantity would be that low and did not know the specs issues so thanks for the education. I am going to have to spend that soon and being genetically cheap by race it always hurts a bit. Little more information helps the natural pain.


Not to many cutting big timber on a regular basis anymore... granted I've ran the 084 enough this week (its tuesday) to hate my life and remember there are muscles in what used to be called a neck... and put a pretty decent wad of cash in Nelson Petroleum's christmas fund... (******* thing is hard on fuel... ) (also, I'm well into my cups at this point trying to forget that my legs hate me as well) But hey 2 days of cutting and there are at least 6 loads of logs waiting to be hauled... not T bag for hand falling and hand limbing/bucking 

Anyway, I'd be surprised if they sold more then a few hundred of any bar over say 50"s, then figure that everyone they do sell is a random ass size...


Back to the point of the thread in general, extra long bars have their own set of peculiar issues, assuming they are up to spec to begin with, they are floppy on a good day, keeping a chain on one is just a pain in the ass at all times, then you factor in chain size and power head requirements... anything over say 42" pretty much needs a big block saw, 100cc or better, so you're talking more then likely .404 chain or bigger... (though it can be done with .063 3/8 chain... its not advisable) then you have to figure that the chain has to be perfectly sharpened, and thats a whole lot of expensive chain to file FYI, anyhow... 

to the point... build it, have fun doing so, if it works fantabulous, if it fails **** it you tried, as for the world of naysayers **** them too what have they done that was fun and creative? As for it failing and risking life and limb... not likely, don't be an idiot and keep the soft fleshy bits protected, no worries, if the bar breaks, worst case scenerio it gets jammed in the cut and you lose a fairly valuable slab, if it magically breaks while trying to over rev the **** out of a 90cc saw.., **** all is going to happen any worse then throwing the chain and scuffing your boots.


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## Captain Bruce (Feb 8, 2022)

BIG JAKE said:


> I had a damaged bar tip where the sprocket nose joins and rivets to the bar on one of my 32’s that I welded. Worked fine never had a problem.
> If you have two bars lay them on top of each other and slide them apart to where you think you want to cut them and note the widths at that point whether they match or not. I don’t think it will work due to the bars profiles mentioned earlier. If at that point you think it could work take a junk bar and cut in half, then weld it together and see how it works/test bar strength.
> If it were me I would buy a Cannon in the proper length and get to milling.


Thats the ticket. Do the task, and see how it works.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 8, 2022)

I say go for it. I have a tig welder and have welded up all kinds of things with no problem. 
Chainsaw bars are a hard metal, but they are not brittle and can be welded with no problem. 
Like previously said they can be filed, and you can drill through them.


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## Sawdust Man (Feb 8, 2022)

If you want to try it then go for it!!! 
I think it sounds interesting, and if it works maybe lots of folks will benefit, because you went boldly where no man has gone before!
My dad made so many homemade inventions when I was growing up..... we never knew what to expect, some worked some didn't, but nobody ever got hurt because he practiced common sense and caution.
Just use common sense and caution and you'll be just fine.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 8, 2022)

Necessity is the mother of invention.


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## calamari (Feb 8, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> Not to many cutting big timber on a regular basis anymore... granted I've ran the 084 enough this week (its tuesday) to hate my life and remember there are muscles in what used to be called a neck... and put a pretty decent wad of cash in Nelson Petroleum's christmas fund... (******* thing is hard on fuel... ) (also, I'm well into my cups at this point trying to forget that my legs hate me as well) But hey 2 days of cutting and there are at least 6 loads of logs waiting to be hauled... not T bag for hand falling and hand limbing/bucking
> 
> Anyway, I'd be surprised if they sold more then a few hundred of any bar over say 50"s, then figure that everyone they do sell is a random ass size...
> 
> ...


Great assessment of what to expect.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 9, 2022)

mid week update, I got to run an MS881 today, still think the ole 084 is a more skookum choocher, haven't ran an 088/880, but I have played with an 090, 3120 and maybe a sachs 166... so far I'm kinda happy with the 084, though the 881 is more ergonomic, the 084 just runs smoother and faster.


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## scor440tk (Feb 10, 2022)

Captain Bruce said:


> Buy a longer bar = spend money. OR. Cobble up some gizmo that explodes, and takes out your leg like a sharkbite. There is no such thing as making guide bars with a welder.......and if there is, thats a Mad Max 3 sequel.


Explode?


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## scor440tk (Feb 10, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Greetings folks
> 
> I don’t know if this is crazy or nuts but I’m thinking about welding 2 36” bars together for a saw mill to use on my 076, just wondering if anyone has done it and if it’s safe to do
> 
> ...


Do what you want use high carbon rod the chainsaw guy might help he has repaired bars if the bar breaks so what it’s in the log when it happens reading all the negative comments of what might happen is not from experience it’s just those people wouldn’t do it so you shouldn’t go for it let’s see some video cutting when your finished.


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## muddstopper (Feb 10, 2022)

Let me throw another ideal at you. If your dead set on making a long bar, why not start from scratch. Find out what kind of steel is used, buy a sheet of the metal, cut out the size and shape you want and laminate your own bar. A little silver solder will hold it together. I bet it will be cheaper than the $800 cost of a new bar


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## calamari (Feb 11, 2022)

muddstopper said:


> Let me throw another ideal at you. If your dead set on making a long bar, why not start from scratch. Find out what kind of steel is used, buy a sheet of the metal, cut out the size and shape you want and laminate your own bar. A little silver solder will hold it together. I bet it will be cheaper than the $800 cost of a new bar


You can buy a 6' bar from Amazon for Husqvarna for $389 US and $369 US for Stihl. Hardly worth the effort and materials cost to make one.


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## ken morgan (Feb 11, 2022)

Bill G said:


> It seems that many think you are crazy to try it. I do not agree with them. I see no reason why to not try it. It may not work or it might. First I have seen bars that were welded, it is possible to do. If you are a skilled welder you know that the quality of the steel will be important. Starting with goof quality bars is essential. Next as for the belly that is easy to deal with. You said you want to use it for milling so I assume you will be using a oiler/helper handle. You are not going to get 72 inches but cut the bars at equal spots and weld them end to end. Then mount your oiler or handle. As for safety I lost at that...... What do folks think is going to happen??? For gosh sakes if the weld fails the chain will come off and bind up. It will be no different than any chain throw on a long bar. Where would the world be without folks that have ingenuity.
> 
> Bill


i have a bow bar where the gentleman who rebuilds them welds on the bar with stellite rods for hardness. he ten regrinds the groove back out to the proper size fot he intended chain. So yes you can weld on a bar if you have the correct skill set.


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## TRTermite (Feb 11, 2022)

No mention of a "SAW SHOP" for regrooving. 
I once thought of welding 2 cast iron clawfoot bath tub together to make a long one Ended up that I outthunk myself and realized "I really didn't need it that bad".
I have welded more than one circle saw blade. first ones were with stick, 680 eutectic or Airco 308-16. Most were 8/9 ga. 48" to 60" 400 to 600 RPM. there is a knack to it and needs tensioned (Hammered) when you get done.


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## calamari (Feb 11, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> No mention of a "SAW SHOP" for regrooving.
> I once thought of welding 2 cast iron clawfoot bath tub together to make a long one Ended up that I outthunk myself and realized "I really didn't need it that bad".
> I have welded more than one circle saw blade. first ones were with stick, 680 eutectic or Airco 308-16. Most were 8/9 ga. 48" to 60" 400 to 600 RPM. there is a knack to it and needs tensioned (Hammered) when you get done.


I was going to suggest hammer welding to relieve stress in the weld and surrounding metal. You do that when you weld cast iron using the pointy end of a slag hammer. Lots of dimples means reduced stress. At least that was how it used to be done. The hard part when welding a surface that has to remain parallel is getting the hammering right on both sides so you dont warp it.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 11, 2022)

ken morgan said:


> i have a bow bar where the gentleman who rebuilds them welds on the bar with stellite rods for hardness. he ten regrinds the groove back out to the proper size fot he intended chain. So yes you can weld on a bar if you have the correct skill set.


Yes that is true that they have used stellite on the rails of the bar where the chain rides for bow bars, but that is not always the case with a regular bar. Stellite is very brittle, and a regular chainsaw bar has a lot of flex in them.
I have some stellite rod here and have welded up the cutters on my stump grinder. It is a very hard material and not easy to grind, but it does wear really good.


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## TRTermite (Feb 11, 2022)

3000 FPS said:


> Yes that is true that they have used stellite on the rails of the bar where the chain rides for bow bars, but that is not always the case with a regular bar. Stellite is very brittle, and a regular chainsaw bar has a lot of flex in them.
> I have some stellite rod here and have welded up the cutters on my stump grinder. It is a very hard material and not easy to grind, but it does wear really good.


STOODY ROD is used for hard facing a lot of high impact/heavy wear like equipment buckets and rock quarry machinery. There are a few ways to apply it.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 11, 2022)

I will check out the Stoody Rod. Thanks for the tip.


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## mcbk (Feb 11, 2022)

3000 FPS said:


> I will check out the Stoody Rod. Thanks for the tip.


I have used Stoody rods 1105 and 2110, extensively, for repair welding anvils. 1105 is a little more wear resistant; 2110 is a little more ductile. Both good hardfacing stick rods.


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 11, 2022)

mcbk said:


> I have used Stoody rods 1105 and 2110, extensively, for repair welding anvils. 1105 is a little more wear resistant; 2110 is a little more ductile. Both good hardfacing stick rods.



Ok. I do not stick weld I have a tig welder though. I was doing a little reading on the Stoody rods earlier and sounds like some good welding rods.


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## mcbk (Feb 11, 2022)

3000 FPS said:


> Ok. I do not stick weld I have a tig welder though. I was doing a little reading on the Stoody rods earlier and sounds like some good welding rods.


Stoody makes good stuff for sure. I would imagine they have a filler rod that would fit the bill.


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## StihlPotlicker (Feb 12, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Greetings folks
> 
> I don’t know if this is crazy or nuts but I’m thinking about welding 2 36” bars together for a saw mill to use on my 076, just wondering if anyone has done it and if it’s safe to do
> 
> ...


i saw a post of a guy in Australia did that for a log he milled using his 880, If i remember correctly he welded 2 84" bars together.


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## Bill G (Feb 13, 2022)

Do not let the naysayers discourage you. There are some who bring up points that are relevant and others that are not. Is what you want to do possible? Of course it is. Is it practical? That is something only you can answer and your opinion is the one that matters not what others think that have never attempted it. The talk of it not being safe is in MY opinion is hogwash. That is my opinion based on my experience. I have seen welded and never seen one that broke and hurt anyone. If someone else has then it would be great to hear from them. For gosh sakes a proper weld is STRONGER than the base metal. If it was not then welds would break all the time. Do welds break? Of course they do. The ones that break are improper welds. Is it possible to improperly weld the bars? Of course it is, BUT no one here can predict of your project will break. You are the only one that knows your welding ability not someone posting on the internet. Would I personally try to weld them together? No I would not, BUT that is because I know I do not have the welding skills to doit NOT because it is not possible. Think about this. Would you put a turbine engine in the back of a Dodge minivan? Maybe,maybe not. Is it possible? Of course it is. Is it practical? Well it was to the guy who did it. Was it safe? Well he did not get hurt so who knows. Was it possible for the first guy to build a chainsaw with a V-8 engine? Of course it was. Was it practical? Well it was to him and all the others that have done it since. If folks only did things that were totally practical we would still be using rocks for tools.


and never se


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## ken morgan (Feb 14, 2022)

I think if you weld the "center" of the bar and avoid the rails area strictly for milling purposes would work without the need to machine anything. its all the matter of how well you jig the items up prior to welding. I tig, mig, stick and have been known to occasionally use a gas torch for welding or brazing as well, and my own experience is that if mild to medium steel you jig it and weld it. if its a specialty then preheat if needed and go from there. only thing that ever gives me fits is aluminum. anything over 1.3 mm is OK anything under I have issues with the puddle. I have tigged cast iron and cast steel with no issues a little preheat and depending upon which medium a little ball peen action for stress relief.


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## ken morgan (Feb 14, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Do not let the naysayers discourage you. Think about this. Would you put a turbine engine in the back of a Dodge minivan? Maybe,maybe not. Is it possible? Of course it is. Is it practical? .


It would probably be more reliable... if thats practical or not...well...


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 14, 2022)

This would be interesting to try. I might add that you will want to retain some sort of "belly" on the bar to keep the chain tight. As was stated earlier fit up and heat control are essential. Be careful not to fill or distort the rails.


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## calamari (Feb 14, 2022)

I think that northmanlogging mentioned that bar sag would be an issue when starting the cut with a bar that long. I think he said that a stand is used to level the bar at first and then taken away. Consider that and an auxiliary oiler to increase the saw's supply.


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## motolife313 (Feb 19, 2022)

frank_ said:


> go for it imo, would need to be spliced tho
> 
> View attachment 962580


Probably harder to get them lined back up that way and more welding which means more warping.


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## rocketnorton (Mar 31, 2022)

i took a 28, cut it in half, added 17" from middle of 36, both oregon power match, so "bellys" lined up almost perfect
lil grind n file... 
rails welded w/ copper in the groove
ended up w/44" useable length
buckin w/394


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## camel2019 (Mar 31, 2022)

Little short of what you want but 
https://www.toolstorm.ca/products/s6263185w


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 16, 2022)

Was this bar ever built?



Wondering if it was anealled before the guide rails were welded up?

It can be done. Getting the metal tension right and avoiding cracks will be the big issues milling long term if you got the rails hard enough to hold up. Three very large bow bars here need some repairs like stellite or hard faced rod added to a section in one to replace the missing material. They never flipped the bar. The other is just worn out but in good shape and only needs facing. The tail was easy to redo. None of these bars have stellite on the tail like a race bar does so they don't wear out the chain chassis in short order.

Where does the chain have the most drag?... no need answer.

Stellite is added to most of the Cannon race bars but in particular places where it will not flex much. Using it on a very long springy bar is a huge mistake imho. Think what your doing with a standard bar that your bow never does. I actually use my bow bars and they are NOT wall hangars. Welding on a chunk of steel or heat treating the guide rail is what you to do in that area. Just remember welding will cause many stress riser because it's not heat treated after welding near the guide rail. Not welding that area is better if you can add on enough hardened steel to not ruin the edge bit. Adding tension and hardness to the steel by hammering it might work. Heat treatment with a quick quench done correctly could make or break it just like a custom knife blade. They are the qualities your looking for. Hardened edge with a flexible yet rigid backbone while maintaining a very hard outer edge only.


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## rocketnorton (Aug 19, 2022)

rocketnorton said:


> i took a 28, cut it in half, added 17" from middle of 36, both oregon power match, so "bellys" lined up almost perfect
> lil grind n file...
> rails welded w/ copper in the groove
> ended up w/44" useable length
> buckin w/394


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## Bill G (Aug 19, 2022)

Ingenuity at it's finest. Great job


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## TRTermite (Aug 19, 2022)

rocketnorton said:


> View attachment 1011182


Thought about that idear with claw foot bath tubs,, too many variables so I found something else to concentrate on (?CAD?) I like your idea but only have a few buggered (Bent) 24" bars at present.. Thanks for posting that info.


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2022)

knezzer97 said:


> Greetings folks
> 
> I don’t know if this is crazy or nuts but I’m thinking about welding 2 36” bars together for a saw mill to use on my 076, just wondering if anyone has done it and if it’s safe to do
> 
> ...



Sure you can. Unless the bars have no curvature, it will be a really lumpy profile, though.

Use MG 600 rod. If there is a TIG equivalent to that alloy, I don't know what it would be. This rod is magic, and can join almost any two ferrous metals. Furthermore, it flows like a dream, leaving no bubbles. I butt welded the single leaf spring on my chipper once; it was still unbroken 2 years later when I sold it. Of course, it's hard to find and costs about $5.00 per stick.

Pre-heat to 400°, then weld away. You will get a single piece of metal that is uncanny how strong the weld is. 180,000 psi is the strength rating of the rod. 

I have no idea how you think you are going to machine that groove into usable condition, though. I think that by the time you buy two 36" bars, weld them together, then machine a whole new rail on both sides of your large bar, you would be money and time ahead to just buy a bar that size.

So basically: is you nuts?


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## TRTermite (Aug 19, 2022)

(ME THINKS)


pdqdl said:


> Use MG 600 rod.


Airco 308-16 or eutectic 680 as stick rod fits into alternative rods to your mg 600 I


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## pdqdl (Aug 19, 2022)

AZWoodworker said:


> Some of these bars are 500 dollars or more. Can't see the cheaper part, but maybe the wiser. Not understand why 24 in the bar is 30 or 40 dollars but 76 is 500 hundred or more. They can charge what they want but that doesn't mean I have to buy it. I get used Bars that are in good condition. But this is only an expensive and labor-consuming hobby.



It has to do with mass production. Not many long bars get sold, so they are a lot more expensive "per inch".


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## blades (Aug 19, 2022)

Here is a source for 72" bar Husky or Stilh $276. These are 3/8/.063 but the nose can be changed to 404/.063 husky stock#hv7263210w Large mount Stilh #s7263210w they do not list the mount # but an 084 takes a 3002 mount ( iirc) easy enough to open up a 3003 to the 3002
Ahlborn Equipment, Inc web is ahlbornequipment.com ph is 18004727600 there are in WI USA

Have fun Be safe


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## j-jock (Aug 19, 2022)

I welded two 36 inch Oregon/Husky bars together to make an Alaska mill bar that would support 2 powerheads. I used ER70 wire, and hammered it, to de stress it, before welding the 2nd side, and it worked like a charm. The only reason I sold the bar, was because I got an offer I couldn't refuse. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
I know from welding 4130 steel in aircraft fuselages, that it is approved to use mild steel rod. The reasoning is, that there is so little weld metal involved in the joining, that if anything, the joint will be stronger and less likely to crack after the welding process.
It is important to cool the bar slowly down to a temperature of around 600 degrees, and then dunk the bar to temper it. 
Assuming that you have used good bars to join, the weld will be as tough as nails and will wear well. I used my bar on large maple, fir, and cedar, and when I sold it, it was still like new.


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## pdqdl (Aug 21, 2022)

Welding bars together isn't a new concept. Lumberjacks have been doing that since before there were chainsaws.



I wonder how many days it took for each cut?


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 24, 2022)

blades said:


> Here is a source for 72" bar Husky or Stilh $276. These are 3/8/.063 but the nose can be changed to 404/.063 husky stock#hv7263210w Large mount Stilh #s7263210w they do not list the mount # but an 084 takes a 3002 mount ( iirc) easy enough to open up a 3003 to the 3002
> Ahlborn Equipment, Inc web is ahlbornequipment.com ph is 18004727600 there are in WI USA
> 
> Have fun Be safe


Very easy to open this bar up in the slot. The issues comes up when you don't have enough tail height to feed the oil hole location. Cannon normally has a fast rate of rise on the tail of longer bars intended for larger saws like the 14mm 3002. Some will move the slot off center so your then limited to the use of one rail only and the chain tends to drag on the lower case area as the chain stretches and the bar moves ahead to take up your slack. At some point the loop tends to start chewing on your case area. Key point to check before considering a short tail height on a larger taller mount system. A simple paper template or a test fit with no mount studs installed tends to shed some light on this one key issue. It can also pinch the chain between the bar plates, if you have them, as things move forward and that won't be good.

I did an overlay of the 41" 3002 ES WN and the 36" 3002 ES WN bars and you don't gain as much as one might think when you keep the elliptical shape of the rail guide areas from going flat or worse yet inverted slopes. That seems like a great spot to unload the cutters if done incorrectly. The only fix if your not splitting the bar on center to gain height is to have a ditch in your trailing area on the back side. That should pack chip into your groove and be an oil robbing point that causes the drivers and chain to lose all it's oil. In a worst case it might jam chip in the sprocket nose.


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## TRTermite (Aug 24, 2022)

Lightning Performance said:


> Very easy to open this bar up in the slot. The issues comes up when you don't have enough tail height to feed the oil hole location. Cannon normally has a fast rate of rise on the tail of longer bars intended for larger saws like the 14mm 3002. Some will move the slot off center so your then limited to the use of one rail only and the chain tends to drag on the lower case area as the chain stretches and the bar moves ahead to take up your slack. At some point the loop tends to start chewing on your case area. Key point to check before considering a short tail height on a larger taller mount system. A simple paper template or a test fit with no mount studs installed tends to shed some light on this one key issue. It can also pinch the chain between the bar plates, if you have them, as things move forward and that won't be good.
> 
> I did an overlay of the 41" 3002 ES WN and the 36" 3002 ES WN bars and you don't gain as much as one might think when you keep the elliptical shape of the rail guide areas from going flat or worse yet inverted slopes. That seems like a great spot to unload the cutters if done incorrectly. The only fix if your not splitting the bar on center to gain height is to have a ditch in your trailing area on the back side. That should pack chip into your groove and be an oil robbing point that causes the drivers and chain to lose all it's oil. In a worst case it might jam chip in the sprocket nose.


Nice explanation for a detailed analysis.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 24, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> Welding bars together isn't a new concept. Lumberjacks have been doing that since before there were chainsaws.
> View attachment 1011618
> 
> 
> I wonder how many days it took for each cut?


Electric welders weren't a thing when that pic was taken. so not only was it welded, it was forge welded, and hand saws are actually tempered and heat treated unlike chain saw bars, so the smith that pulled that off knew his work.


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 24, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Nice explanation for a detailed analysis.


Even a blind squirrel finds a nut accidentally ;-)


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## TRTermite (Aug 24, 2022)

Lightning Performance said:


> Even a blind squirrel finds a nut accidentally ;-)


Male or Female Squirrel? HADDA ASK.


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 24, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Male or Female Squirrel? HADDA ASK.


No comment
Lmao


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 24, 2022)

Edit: my bad 60" LOA

The two fat nose bars come out to 68" <WRONG, LOA for the S1 mount.

It should be about the same using hard nose bars or regular nose bars mix and match. Mating a WN to a lesser height won't add much.


Max width was 68" with a ditch in the back.


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 24, 2022)

The OP was 
Last seen Jun 13, 2022


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## Captain Bruce (Aug 24, 2022)

The madness continues. Spend the money on the correct parts for the chainsaw.


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## Todd727 (Aug 25, 2022)

rocketnorton said:


> View attachment 1011182


 Not possible. It should've exploded, you should've lost body parts and the bar should've folded and sagged like a pretzel.


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## rocketnorton (Aug 26, 2022)

lol

it's got less flop than couple oe husky 36"s ive had

time will tell


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 26, 2022)

rocketnorton said:


> lol
> 
> it's got less flop than couple oe husky 36"s ive had
> 
> time will tell


Oh no not the floppy member


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## Bill G (Aug 26, 2022)

Lightning Performance said:


> Oh no not the floppy member


They tell me they have pills for that but I have no wife anymore......no point


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 27, 2022)

Bill G said:


> They tell me they have pills for that but I have no wife anymore......no point


I thought you got that worked out a few years back, bummer man.

Find a live wire and you'll be fine. Send the needy packing and looking for the needed


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## Bill G (Aug 27, 2022)

Lightning Performance said:


> I thought you got that worked out a few years back, bummer man.
> 
> Find a live wire and you'll be fine. Send the needy packing and looking for the needed


Now all the fine ladies at work are either young enough to be my daughters or happily married (for the 3rd time)


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 27, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Now all the fine ladies at work are either young enough to be my daughters or happily married (for the 3rd time)


Third times the charm.
Never look that close to home or the buss. You should know better.


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## Bill G (Aug 27, 2022)

Lightning Performance said:


> Third times the charm.
> Never look that close to home or the buss. You should know better.


Not sure what you mean by the bus. No busses here other than big yellow ones so ....... I do not travel more than 7 miles from home most times. Sometimes 10 miles but that is rare


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## Lightning Performance (Aug 28, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Not sure what you mean by the bus. No busses here other than big yellow ones so ....... I do not travel more than 7 miles from home most times. Sometimes 10 miles but that is rare


Short for business not bus.

My bad


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## Bill G (Aug 28, 2022)

Lightning Performance said:


> Short for business not bus.
> 
> My bad


No problem. I am not the sharpest on some of the modern abbreviations that came about from smart phones. Our youngest son's initials are OMG. Now looking back it might have been not our best choice......


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## villagelightsmith (Dec 23, 2022)

Hell-No! (This, coming from a pair of bicycle mechanics who have recurrent dreams about flying; up, up, and away.) Stay on the ground and wait for jets to be invented. It isn't about the doing of the thing, but rather about the price of your ticket to ride, eh? Nobody but a fool embarks on learning and DOing just for the sake of it, eh? Now how many old bars would it take John Prine to make that 60" bar? I reckon 3x28+" ought to make enough parts for one. 4x if you're lucky enough to find 'em. If you're worried about annealing and hardening steel, pay a visit to your local knifesmith, farrier, or blacksmith and ask 'em. If you're polite and listen real good they'll be plumb proud that you came and asked. After all, they're just scrap, and all of our time comes too cheap for the supply. You're only doing it for the doing of it. If'n it don't work, whack a few more nicks in it and you can either spin up a grand story about it or just call it art.


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