# Electric wedge



## d0m3n (Jul 14, 2020)

I'm a mechanical engineering student and I have to design a battery powered felling wedge, there are hydraulic and manual options available like this one.  I never cut down a tree myself so I wanted to ask people with experience in this field, what would be the requirements and wishes for such a device. 
It will be used on trees with diameters ranging from 8 to 40 inches. What weight would be accetable, how many trees should the battery last, how important is it to operate the wedge from a safe distance, is the horizontal movement speed important? What would you be willing to pay for it? Who would use it, I'm guessing people who cut a lot of trees down, what are their needs? Are there any other important or desired specifications that come to mind? Why wouldn't you want to use it?

Thanks very much for your insight.


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## Philbert (Jul 14, 2020)

I would work with a screw type wedge, instead of an angled one. There are lots of examples out there for splitting wood. Same principles apply. 

Philbert


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## Jhenderson (Jul 14, 2020)

There’s already a screw type that uses a 1/2 inch drive battery impact wrench. My 18 volt Milwaukee could run that unit for every tree I could cut and process in a workday.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 15, 2020)

d0m3n said:


> I'm a mechanical engineering student and I have to design a battery powered felling wedge, there are hydraulic and manual options available like this one.  I never cut down a tree myself so I wanted to ask people with experience in this field, what would be the requirements and wishes for such a device.
> It will be used on trees with diameters ranging from 8 to 40 inches. What weight would be accetable, how many trees should the battery last, how important is it to operate the wedge from a safe distance, is the horizontal movement speed important? What would you be willing to pay for it? Who would use it, I'm guessing people who cut a lot of trees down, what are their needs? Are there any other important or desired specifications that come to mind? Why wouldn't you want to use it?
> 
> Thanks very much for your insight.



For a production faller,(which I'm hardly close to one) it needs to be bullet proof, under say 5 pounds (2.3 kilo) and fit in your pocket

what most of us carry is 3 wedges (or more) and an axe of 3-5 pounds (1.3-2.3 kilo) the wedges are fairly light, light enough that I don't notice them in my pocket and walk into gas stations all the time with em still in my pocket. 

Battery life would need to be extraordinary, enough to last say an hour of continuous use? with a back up battery being just as light and compact

it would also probably need to withstand direct hammer blows, as I guarantee the battery dies in the middle of a sketchy cut... its getting bashed with an axe repeatedly until results are accomplished

as for safe distance, 10' is nice, but not a deal breaker.

as it stands now, many cutters don't bat an eye at dropping $1500. on hydrualic jacks built for timber falling, but they are heavy and only used when absolutely necessary

Thing to remember about all cutters, world wide (small assumption lol but mostly true) our feet are our biggest safety device, the ability to get away, having to drag around 45 pounds of extra gear to every tree gets old fast, its why plastic wedges and axes are the norm, they are light, easy to use, and reliable. 

Most of these hydraulic wedge things I've seen are massive affairs that take a pump, and 2 people to operate, which taint gonna work in production logging. 

Anyway, in a nut shell, make it small, reliable, and powerful, and not cost more then a weeks wages you might have a chance at making it work


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## 2dogs (Jul 15, 2020)

I understand the point of exercises like this but you are being asked to design something that no faller has asked for. Here is the USA many fallers have access to hydraulic tree jacks, not hydraulic car jacks, but don't carry them on a daily basis. The have a lift capacity from around 40 tons to over 100 tons. The greater the tonnage the heavier and more expensive the jack (s). The jacks live in the truck or even back at the shop. I have seen videos of exhaust powered jacks and hyrdraulic jacks powered by the chainsaw that appeared to be of Europen manufacture. Same goes for falling levers and winch type push poles. I have never seen any of them in person. Plastic wedges and an axe are the only practical solution to tipping trees in the western USA where the tree grow on steep slopes and any extra weight is a burden.

Still if you must I would find a faller who will let you tag along. Offer to carry ALL his gear including his saw and fuel and water then maybe he will even talk to you. Then figure out how often your electric wedge would be used and how much extra weight you willing to carry.

In my limited experience a jack is used when you are fighting the tree and convincing it to go in a direction it does not want to go. If I see a tree is limb locked and it may become sky bound then a jack can sometimes be carefully used to overcome the offending limbs. Sometimes. Same goes when fighting a lean or sweep. Sometimes. I also like to use a jack on big trees, say 48" dbh and larger. It makes me feel better.

https://dl-mail.ymail.com/ws/downlo...EcvvpYMDhFWtmnqSqlOsjyRThBLnz2bZQufgc5_eQwIX-


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## 2dogs (Jul 15, 2020)

Dang it. The image is there but my post only shows the link. If someone could make the image show I would appreciated you doing so.


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## Philbert (Jul 15, 2020)

2dogs said:


> Dang it. The image is there but my post only shows the link. If someone could make the image show I would appreciated you doing so.


What is it an image of? Might be able to find it, but the link does not work for me either.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 15, 2020)

TR30 Felling Wedge – D.A. Hughes Forestry







www.dahughesforestry.co.uk












Sea Forest Photos


These images showcase Madsen's customers using our products.



www.madsens1.com















1" NEW USA Drill Screw Cone Impact Driver Wood Log | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1" NEW USA Drill Screw Cone Impact Driver Wood Log at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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Philbert


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## 2dogs (Jul 15, 2020)

Philbert said:


> What is it an image of? Might be able to find it, but the link does not work for me either.
> 
> Philbert



The link works for me. It's just a pic I took of a jack in a tree we were working on.


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## Skeans (Jul 15, 2020)

[mention]2dogs [/mention] these help?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jhenderson (Jul 15, 2020)

The picture of the mechanical wedge and battery impact are what I spoke of. I can’t imagine carrying an 11 pound wedge plus the gun on a regular basis when I regularly get by with 2or 3, 12 inch Double tapers and a 5lb rafting ax.


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## catbuster (Jul 15, 2020)

Maybe figure out how to make a screw drive on the spreader of a Porto-power. Attach it to a cordless impact gun of some kind, and it might work. Silvey (or other) tree jacks were really popular in the 45 ton range, or at least that’s the one I use. That said, it’s going to take some serious mechanical advantage to get an impact gun to that much lifting power, even if my 1/2” Milwaukee makes in theory 700 ft-lb. However, it sucks a 5 amp-hour batter flat in a hurry doing it and it’s important to note the Silvey jacks applied it over a big area.

I could see this thing maybe having a niche in Euro/east coast styles of falling where the trees aren’t very big and the scarf cuts often require a wedge to get the tree over.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 15, 2020)

Philbert said:


> 1" NEW USA Drill Screw Cone Impact Driver Wood Log | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1" NEW USA Drill Screw Cone Impact Driver Wood Log at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...



I've never trusted these type of screwy wedges, probably all fine and good on small diameter stuff, but anything over 1' and it could cause it to split or just sink into the fibers like nothing was there, it happens now with 3" wide 12" long wedges that are flat on the critical side. 

That now you have a chunk of steel in yer pocket and dragging around a cordless impact, as well as axe wedges, saw, tape, first aid kit, radio(if you don't work alone lol) water, fuel, bar oil, maybe a spare chain


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## Philbert (Jul 16, 2020)

Never tried one. 

Philbert


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## KiwiBro (Jul 16, 2020)




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## Westboastfaller (Jul 18, 2020)

If you check back on your thread then you may find people are more willing to put forth the effort. I personally suffer with abandonment issues.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 18, 2020)

Westboastfaller said:


> If you check back on your thread then you may find people are more willing to put forth the effort. I personally suffer with abandonment issues.


I wonder if the trees we knock over feel the same. Do we still respect them in the morning?


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## northmanlogging (Jul 18, 2020)

KiwiBro said:


> I wonder if the trees we knock over feel the same. Do we still respect them in the morning?


Only if they are special to me...

or try and scrub me off the loader seat


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## madhatte (Jul 19, 2020)

I cut just enough big stuff that the Borntrager 28-t jack I bought a few years ago is a thing worth carrying in the truck. A couple times a year I need that directional guarantee. Elsewise? Plastic wedges and a 3-4 lb axe on a mid-length handle lifts everything I cut without more than normal trouble. A small electric unit would shine when a tree has already sat back and the wedges are already bottomed out against the hinge (look, everybody has an off day). I can see boring under a wedge, slipping some heavyish but powerful thing in, and letting it rip. It's absolutely not going to be an everyday tool but it could have its place for sure.


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## Jhenderson (Jul 19, 2020)

The fact is we’re arguing over designing a product that’s already available . The OP needs to find another project.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 19, 2020)

Jhenderson said:


> The fact is we’re arguing over designing a product that’s already available . The OP needs to find another project.


The best inventions stand on the shoulders of previous inventions. 

The incandescent light bulb wouldn't be what it is without the lime light (arc light) and the pop gun, just like cheap electricity wouldn't be here without the steam engine etc etc.

Dude comes up with something that is handy to carry and easy to use... could be a winner, least we could do is throw him some ideas


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## slowp (Jul 19, 2020)

What you need is a drone or hoverboard or something to bring it down the hill to you. Use it, send it back up. So, that might be something to design. A delivery drone that can fly through the woods and carry needful stuff--like a box of donettos, or a thermos of coffee, or???

We often contemplated how a jet pack might make timber marking more interesting.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 19, 2020)

slowp said:


> What you need is a drone or hoverboard or something to bring it down the hill to you. Use it, send it back up. So, that might be something to design. A delivery drone that can fly through the woods and carry needful stuff--like a box of donettos, or a thermos of coffee, or???
> 
> We often contemplated how a jet pack might make timber marking more interesting.


That there is actually a skookum idea

you better get on that


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## madhatte (Jul 24, 2020)

Agreed, a delivery drone seems quite possible all of a sudden. Maybe have it locate you by cell phone signal?


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## Philbert (Jul 25, 2020)

madhatte said:


> Agreed, a delivery drone seems quite possible all of a sudden. Maybe have it locate you by cell phone signal?


Naw; government already knows where you are . . . . 

Philbert


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## madhatte (Jul 27, 2020)

THIS government? The one I work for? It is to laugh!


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