# Pictures of Topping the Tail Tree



## slowp (May 24, 2007)

First, here's the yarder, a Skagit swing yarder. Then a picture of the carriage, a Maki, motorized. I took pictures of the hooktender climbing and topping the tail tree for rigging up. He explained a few things. He likes to use a bigger saw than most people . He uses an 066 so he can power through a bind and because he is short and can reach with it. His back cut is higher than the undercut. This is in case the top bounces off another tree and comes back, it might stop the tree and save his life. Topping the tree takes weight off it and helps lessen the torque on the tree so it might not pull out. This ground is fairly flat so a tail tree is needed to get good lift/payload. I discovered my camera had more zoom than I thought, and got some good shots. 
Continued.....Don't know how to make pictures take up less space.


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## slowp (May 24, 2007)

He's up in the tree and the fun begins.


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## murphyranch (May 24, 2007)

Thanks for sharing the pictures Neighbor.

Murph


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## slowp (May 24, 2007)

Time to insert chew, then start rigging up the tree--attaching guylines and tail block. Time for me to go check on cutters. The logger gets a tail tree and the wildlifers get a snag.


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## Cedarkerf (May 24, 2007)

Nice Pics.


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## Gologit (May 26, 2007)

Thanks for posting the climbing pictures. You don't see many modern-day pictures of climbers any more. Brought back some memories.


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## BC_Logger (May 26, 2007)

I agree its nice to see some old school pics


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## pbtree (May 30, 2007)

Excellent - thank you for sharing!


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## slowp (Jul 31, 2007)

Gotta get this back up so the guy in the pictures can see it.


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## sILlogger (Jul 31, 2007)

this is gonna be a dumb question for all you yarder loggers, but i was watching a video of yarder logging and they were using cats to drag the logs to a log yard and then using the yarder, does this occur often or do u just choker the logs and go?


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## Gologit (Jul 31, 2007)

sILlogger said:


> this is gonna be a dumb question for all you yarder loggers, but i was watching a video of yarder logging and they were using cats to drag the logs to a log yard and then using the yarder, does this occur often or do u just choker the logs and go?



 This Left Coast logging stuff really calls you, doesn't it? I think you better get your butt out here and go to work and either get it out of your system or find out enough about it that you'll know which questions to ask. If you don't try it you'll always wish you had...if you don't like it you can always go home.


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## sILlogger (Jul 31, 2007)

i know i know.....i wana see what it is like to cut SOFTwood....and i'd like to cut down a tree that was 200'+foot tall and have over 5000 bft in it. ive cut some 3000 + around here and that is big/huge for the area


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## slowp (Jul 31, 2007)

sILlogger said:


> i know i know.....i wana see what it is like to cut SOFTwood....and i'd like to cut down a tree that was 200'+foot tall and have over 5000 bft in it. ive cut some 3000 + around here and that is big/huge for the area



Don't come here then. We're just into 50 year old stuff, can't cut the big ones anymore unless they are a hazard and then you gotta leave them for the critters or woodcutters. Had a swing landing (using a cat to get to the skyline) once. It isn't very common around here because we're using skyline/cable yarding to protect the ground and log on steep slopes. It is hard to get a skidder or cat down to where it would do any good without tearing something up. Like a road that we already tore up. Now, if you do come out here, make sure your rigging clothes are color coordinated!


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## sILlogger (Jul 31, 2007)

id be all messed up if i came out there. coming from cutting stumps ankle high and boring the tree before turning it loose to notch cutting with nothing but a backcut (or however u do it) and bucking on the fly. granted i would really like to do it some day. the video i was watching they picked the cat up(527 grapple) with the yarder and moved it with the cable(youtube-Flying Cat(s)-or something like that)

does alot of cutting occur on government land out there. or ground that companies buy up?


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## slowp (Jul 31, 2007)

I can't speak for more than the local area. There's a lot more cutting going on on private land than on federal right now. The private companies usually clearcut around here and they are cutting second or third growth trees also.
They get to have all the fun!:bang:


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## Gologit (Aug 1, 2007)

slowp said:


> I can't speak for more than the local area. There's a lot more cutting going on on private land than on federal right now. The private companies usually clearcut around here and they are cutting second or third growth trees also.
> They get to have all the fun!:bang:



Pretty much the same thing here. We work primarily on the west slope of the Sierra Nevada and probably 80% of our cut comes from our own land. We'll buy state or federal sales if they look profitable and if they have something we can use...big Ponderosa or Sugar Pine or big Doug Fir but otherwise it's mostly private.
We clear-cut a lot and reforestation is a big priority. I've taken my kids to the woods with me and shown them land that was freshly logged and land that was logged ten or twenty years ago and replanted. On the freshly logged stuff I've asked them to bring their children back at ten year intervals and see how things are healing and growing. If they bring their grandchildren to the same spots they'll really see how sustainable forestry works. I won't be around to watch it but it's good to know that it's happening.
Sorry...didn't mean to start sounding the drum for sustainable forest practices. It's just that when people see a fresh clearcut they get a gut reaction to it based soley on how things look. It is ugly...and that's a fact. But, like I said, come back later. See how the earth, with a little wise help from man, can heal itself. And bring your kids.


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## sILlogger (Aug 1, 2007)

+1 to sustainable forestry....i was talking to an older guy in the biz the other day that has been running his own biz for 34 years. and he said that he has got to cut the same patches of timber 3 times....select cut years ago and then came back and cut it again. i thought that was pretty darn neat. Boboak, u work for a logging company? any pos. open out there?


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## Cedarkerf (Aug 1, 2007)

Hey Bob same up here typical comment" I am OK with logging but do they have to destroy the land isn't there a better way. Ya try to show em adjacent hills that are in various stages of regrowth but it like tellin a scandinavian to use a longer bar than 12". They watch a mall being graded and say "O cool a mall" even tho land is being permanently takin out of drainage or wildlife use. I have shown my kids like you have hoping they will be balanced when they grow up.


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## Gologit (Aug 2, 2007)

bks044 said:


> Hey Bob same up here typical comment" I am OK with logging but do they have to destroy the land isn't there a better way. Ya try to show em adjacent hills that are in various stages of regrowth but it like tellin a scandinavian to use a longer bar than 12". They watch a mall being graded and say "O cool a mall" even tho land is being permanently takin out of drainage or wildlife use. I have shown my kids like you have hoping they will be balanced when they grow up.



So true. Every acre that we cover in asphalt or concrete is gone forever. Plus the fact that asphalt and concrete come from finite sources. We can,and do, plant more trees.


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## Gologit (Aug 2, 2007)

sILlogger said:


> +1 to sustainable forestry....i was talking to an older guy in the biz the other day that has been running his own biz for 34 years. and he said that he has got to cut the same patches of timber 3 times....select cut years ago and then came back and cut it again. i thought that was pretty darn neat. Boboak, u work for a logging company? any pos. open out there?



I work for a timber company with a lot of their own land and several sawmills.We contract out the actual logging to various companies. If you like I'll PM you with a few names and address/phone number etc and you can see what you can come up with. It'll have to wait 'til this week-end but remind me if I don't get the info to you by Sunday afternoon.


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## sperho (Aug 2, 2007)

I will show my vast ignorance while at the same time show some fascination with the logging trade: what is a tail tree and why is using one "old school"?


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## Cedarkerf (Aug 2, 2007)

Could be considered old school been around since steam donkeys. Its a way to get logs up steep hills and not dragging them on the ground hope this pic explains. Still used today commonly in the PNW. It is a TRUE PNW thing. The tail spar is the oppisite end of the yarder.


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## Cedarkerf (Aug 2, 2007)

Here is a pic 2 miles from my house where a hi lead was used. It drags the logs to a central area and as you can see from the tree density and slope that an access road is only way in.


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## sILlogger (Aug 2, 2007)

tail trees are used to support a pulley that a winchline would run through to skid logs. a "donkey engine"(steam engine powered winch)...

ok..
so u got a donkey engine(winch) with the cable ran up through a pulley on the tail tree(that is supported by several guy lines-typically tied off to stumps) and the winchline runs out to another pulley at the end with chokers used to get the logs. this elevated system helps to get one end of the logs up and make them easier to skid and allows them to go over the terrain better...

atleast this is my take on it


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## sperho (Aug 2, 2007)

Very cool, thanks guys. Now, hooktender?


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## Cedarkerf (Aug 2, 2007)

He is the guy who knows what hes doin. Will know system for riggin know how and where to put it.


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## sperho (Aug 2, 2007)

bks044 said:


> He is the guy who knows what hes doin. Will know system for riggin know how and where to put it.



So once the yarder rigging is set, he basically sets chokers and keeps things moving out of the woods? Or does he move to another yarder rig and set that one up? I have no feel for how long these operations go on before tearing down and moving the equipment to the next location.


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## Cedarkerf (Aug 2, 2007)

More like the show foreman.


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## sperho (Aug 2, 2007)

bks044 said:


> More like the show foreman.



Gotya. What does a typical crew consist of in terms of various jobs? (Send me to another website if I annoy you guys with silly questions...)


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## John Ellison (Aug 3, 2007)

Crew sizes will vary from three to seven or eight.
Hooktender- Crew boss. Keeps things moving smoothly by arranging the rigging for the logging that is yet to be done. This is usually laying out the next road line. Packing tailblocks, straps and coils of haywire in the unlogged area and setting it up.
Yarder engineer- Operates the yarder, also known as a donkey puncher.
Loader operator-Runs the log loader also known as a shovel and loads log trucks.
Chaser- Unhooks the turns of logs on the landing, bumps knots, bucks logs where needed and helps out anywhere needed on landing. Also buids coils of haywire and ships rigging back to the hooker (on the butt rigging) when he is setting up a new roadline.
Rigging Slinger- Directs (and very much participates in the setting of each turn of logs) Does most of the whistle blowing (Talkie Tooter) to signal the yarder operator when to slack/go ahead on the lines.
Choker Setters- Follow the Slinger around and do what he says. A lot of guys will think they know it all after a few weeks of setting chokers, but to learn all the fine points and be a really good at it will take around a season. Some never learn and some just arent able to get around in the brush. Most rigging men arent the Paul Bunyan (big) type.


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## slowp (Aug 3, 2007)

Tail trees also known as lift trees, are being used on the units I've been taking pictures of because the ground is not steep. The area was skidder/cat logged in the past down to the roads. Nobody walked it much to see if it was viable to skyline log. A judge during one of the court hearings pronounced it was to be 100% cable logged. Because the ground also "roman noses" off between the landing and tail tree, the loggers are using intermediate supports at these places--they rig a tree by the problem area (guyline it, hang a block)
and then hang a hunk of iron that supports the skyline and allows the carriage to run over it. Kind of goes KA THUNK when it runs over it. This keeps the logs from plowing a ditch when the ground changes profile. There's a lot of stress put on this tree also. So, a good hooktender will pick a nice, sound, sturdy Douglas-fir to use. Sometimes they top it, sometimes not. The same kind of tree is preferred to use for the tail tree and guylines. The yarders used here for the smaller second growth are made to be rigged up fast, usually a maximum of 4 guylines. The old growth size yarders use 6 to 8 guylines. 

The crews on the thinning operations around here vary in size every day. It is a real problem finding reliable help--Gyppo logging, not big companies. They like to have 2 guys setting chokers, a hooktender to rig ahead and set chokers when he's caught up, a shovel operator, a yarder engineer and a chaser. But, I've often seen them running short with half a crew. Not a lot of production, but some. There's one operator who runs a Koller Yarder with his dad and brother. That way they know they'll show up. The two brothers do the cutting. When they have enough on the ground, the dad helps to rig up the yarder. The yarding is done with the dad as yarder engineer and one of his sons as the choker setter. The other son loads and drives their truck. 
Well, the coffee's gone and I gotta go. ..later.


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## sperho (Aug 3, 2007)

Great stuff! Thanks for more elaboration... Someday when nerdsite.com gets up an running I can explain what it's like to be an analytical chemist in the chemical industry.


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## Gologit (Aug 5, 2007)

sILlogger said:


> +1 to sustainable forestry....i was talking to an older guy in the biz the other day that has been running his own biz for 34 years. and he said that he has got to cut the same patches of timber 3 times....select cut years ago and then came back and cut it again. i thought that was pretty darn neat. Boboak, u work for a logging company? any pos. open out there?



Check your PMs.


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