# Want to try a new friction hitch.



## TreeW?rx (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok, I know this may be opening a can of worms, but I am gonna ask it any way.
I am still a new climber, I climb on a blakes hitch and have switched to a split tail instead of chopping 2' off the end of my rope regularly. I am working with both Ice and Bee line. Trying to see which one I like better. I double end climb so I use 2 split tails. I have been reading a little about other friction hitches like the VT, Distel etc. I was wanting advice on which ones to try out and what the pros and cons of each are. I would appreciate any advice that may be had. Thanks


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## treesquirrel (Nov 6, 2009)

I've gone to the Schwabish with an eye to eye split tail. It releases quickly, too much so for some folks, but I really like how well it performs with a micro pulley slack tender. If I want a more secure hitch that does not release as easily I use the Distel.

However if I am using a traditional setup I always go with a blakes.


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## TDunk (Nov 6, 2009)

I think Bee-line is better. I've used Ice and it seemed to glaze over and fray pretty easy, but performance was good. The Bee-line seems to hold up better. I use the same hitches that tree squirrel uses. There both simple to tie, and very similar to tie. BUT, i have just the opposite problems with those two hitches than TS. To me, the Schwabish is hard to release as where the Distel releases fairly easy for me. It's all a matter of personal preference.


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## squad143 (Nov 6, 2009)

Schwabish, using Bee-line (with Grizzly-spliced (sewn) eyes. I also found that the bee-line holds up better.

I've been using the Schwabish for quite some time and very comfortable with it. Tried the VT, and although it released easier with the micro pulley, I found that sometimes it did not grab as quick as other knots. Plus I found that the VT is a longer knot. Depending on how your setup is, this could be an issue. It was for me as I was using mine to hold my rope (like a flipline). On small dia. trees, the knot ended against the tree, which sometimes became an issue.

When I need a knot to grab a rope for a "pull", I usually use the VT as I like the way it pulls the rope from two sides, plus it releases way easier when heavily loaded.

As with any new knot (or rope material), practice with it (low & slow) before going high or trying to get technical.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm on Ice right now and though I like it's action better it doesn't seem as durable as the beeline like TDunk said. As far as hitches, try 'em all. I'm on the VT, or some variation of it right now and it works well for my climbing style, my eye to eye, and my climb line. My point is to play around with it. The amount of wraps/braids/type of knot you like will change depending on what line you're on, what e2e you run, or even how you feel that day. There's no one size fits all answer to this question.


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## Plasmech (Nov 6, 2009)

One thing I never understood about using the "beginner's" single tail method is that clearly, friction hitches work better when the "friction" rope is a few sizes SMALLER than the rope to be grabbed. So why do all the books have us new guys using single tail setups, typically an anchor hitch with the tail end forming a Blakes...

For what it's worth I skipped that right off the bat and used a split-tail prusic with safety blue.

I've already been in a situation where my friction was the same size as my lifeline and it wasn't holding all that well, a bit scary.

I'm sure an experienced member can shed some light on this.


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## TDunk (Nov 6, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> One thing I never understood about using the "beginner's" single tail method is that clearly, friction hitches work better when the "friction" rope is a few sizes SMALLER than the rope to be grabbed. So why do all the books have us new guys using single tail setups, typically an anchor hitch with the tail end forming a Blakes...
> 
> For what it's worth I skipped that right off the bat and used a split-tail prusic with safety blue.
> 
> ...



Another wrap on your hitch would have probably taken car of that. The first time i used a Distel it was sliding on me. Just tried using it again lately and it's been fine. Like Blakes said too, you could have been having an off day.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 6, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> One thing I never understood about using the "beginner's" single tail method is that clearly, friction hitches work better when the "friction" rope is a few sizes SMALLER than the rope to be grabbed. So why do all the books have us new guys using single tail setups, typically an anchor hitch with the tail end forming a Blakes...
> 
> For what it's worth I skipped that right off the bat and used a split-tail prusic with safety blue.
> 
> ...



I had that issue with the blakes once, when I was using a brand new splitail. The rope was real stiff and I didn't get my wraps tight enough. As far as your question about starting with the blakes is it's a relatively bullit proof, easy to tie knot where the distel's, vt's and others require more tweaking and a better understanding of friction to use safely. It's not a good feeling when your rope starts sliding through your hitch when your aloft because you didn't have quite enough wraps and if you're still a beginner when this happens you might freak out and hurt yourself.


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## RacerX (Nov 6, 2009)

I've been using a Distel with a hitch climber pulley lately and really like it. Switched over from the VT which also worked rather well but the VT must be tied exactly right or it can slip. Either way IMO they're both far better than a standard Blake since they release with greater ease.

I would guess that the books tell beginners to use a "single tail" because it's the simplest setup there is. All you need is a rope, saddle and one carabiner and a Blake. Less parts to work with can make it much less confusing when you're just starting out climbing.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Nov 7, 2009)

TreeWürx said:


> ...
> I climb on a blakes hitch and have switched to a split tail
> ...





Plasmech said:


> ...
> Blakes ... skipped that right off the bat and used a split-tail
> ...





Blakesmaster said:


> ...
> *the blakes is it's a relatively bullit proof*
> ...





RacerX said:


> ...
> I would guess that the books tell beginners to use a "single tail" because *it's the simplest setup there is*. All you need is a rope, saddle and one carabiner and a Blake. Less parts to work with can make it much less confusing when you're just starting out climbing.




Well, _"the blakes is it's a relatively bullit proof"_ and it's simple so beginners can concentrate on the getting used to climbing. It's a really good tool to have in your kit. 

I climb with a Distel in a DLRW (CMI) system which is extremely efficient for long climbs. However, once topside, I like to use the other end of the line with a Blakes for double crotching and for moving around the canopy. It's simple, "bullet proof" and I don't have to carry any extra gear topside. Below is a pic showing my system in use with the Blakes on the secondary TIP above and the primary TIP with the Distel, hitch tender, etc. hanging below. It's good to remove the CMIs when working the canopy - they're stowed in the canvas bucket

But, everyone has to work to find their own system and what elements to include to make their style efficient. I'm NOT recommending my style over any other style, just suggesting that mastery of the Blakes is really good to know - in case, God forbid, everything else fails. Because, the only thing you really need to climb is rope and the Blakes - it don't get no simpler than that.


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## fishercat (Nov 7, 2009)

*i'm on the VT with Beeline now with Lava rope.*

i am not really crazy about it and i am always looking at it and not liking the way it looks.i am going to try a couple others.i like the Blake's but it is impossible to get a single eye split tail around here in less than 1/2.i want to stay with the smaller ropes so i may have to make a big order of split tails from Sherrill.i always liked the Blake's.it was pedictable,easy to tie and always seemed to work.


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## Ax-man (Nov 7, 2009)

Wow, SJ that is quite a system


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## TreeW?rx (Nov 7, 2009)

Thanks guys. I am gonna get one or two e2e split tails and try a couple of different hitches. I have a tree in my back yard that I can practice on. I am in it every time I can get home and there is still enough light to see. I am still a beginner so everything is low and slow for now.


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## pdqdl (Nov 7, 2009)

Ax-man said:


> Wow, SJ that is quite a system



He kind-of looks like somebody tied him up and hung him in a tree to see if he could get out, doesn't he?




I'm just kidding! You don't look at all like you had any trouble getting untied after they put you there.

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## pdqdl (Nov 8, 2009)

Take a look at Moss's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVMjl2YQzpk&feature=quicklist&playnext=2&playnext_from=QL


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## SINGLE-JACK (Nov 8, 2009)

Ax-man said:


> Wow, SJ that is quite a system



Not sure if you're being politely kind or politely critical but it should be noted that there is rigging for a speedline and other rigging lines in that photo of the last stages of a removal before blocking down. *The point being; the Blakes is still useful even if you're using an advanced split tail system.*


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## SINGLE-JACK (Nov 8, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> He kind-of looks like somebody tied him up and hung him in a tree to see if he could get out, doesn't he?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nah ... I'm still there ... there's a laptop in that canvas bucket, too :jester:


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