# Any Chance?



## Jace (Jun 5, 2009)

I would like another opinion or few on this: At a campground there is a HUGE white oak that has codominant trunks. The larger side is dead, not a leaf remaining. The other side is alive but has declined some. The reason is that they cut the roots on the dead trunked side by installing water and electric lines about 20'-25' from the trunk. On the alive side, there is gravel on the ground where they drive (campsite area) all over the rootzone area. IMO, the tree is history. The only next to impossible way I see of saving it is to break up the compacted area on the live side, but doing so could damage the roots, as I dont have a high dollar air gun machine, and dont think it'd work on that hard compacted peagravel anyway. I thought about mycorrize injected in the ground to help the roots, but I dont think it'll help much either. Somebody talk back to me and give me your opinion or helpful ideas, as I dont see it having any chance, no matter what I do. Thanks!


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## treeseer (Jun 5, 2009)

swing a pick into the ground and pull the handle lightly to fracture the soil

pour compost in the holes, then spray a jet of water to swirl it in. then mulch where they do not drive, add crushnrun rock where they do

cheap easy effective.


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## Jace (Jun 5, 2009)

treeseer said:


> swing a pick into the ground and pull the handle lightly to fracture the soil
> 
> pour compost in the holes, then spray a jet of water to swirl it in. then mulch where they do not drive, add crushnrun rock where they do
> 
> cheap easy effective.





Thanks for replying treeseer. Would you also advice doing that(pick/compost/water) to the side in which the crown is dead(still has chance?), or only to the side showing life in that side of the crown? BTW, I believe the trench was put in early last fall. 
I'm not familiar w/crushnrun, I'm assuming by the pictures that I googled, it is slightly smaller than peagravel. If thats the case, Im not real sure I can get my hands on it around here, and if not, would pea gravel be the next best thing?


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## S Mc (Jun 6, 2009)

Jace, could we get some pictures to see what is going on here? Have you been contracted to do work on this tree, such as remove the deadwood, etc., in addition to mitigating the compaction issue?

Sylvia


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## ATH (Jun 6, 2009)

Where are you? Maybe you can sub out Airknife (or Air Spade) work? It would break up compaction in gravel, but you still should get something in there besides gravel for rooting medium. You may also explore Cambistat. I have never used it, but other folks have with generally good success - but I have also heard cautions about it. I would not just do the Cambistat without doing something (air excavation work) to remediate the compaction/poor soil.


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## Jace (Jun 6, 2009)

S Mc said:


> Jace, could we get some pictures to see what is going on here? Have you been contracted to do work on this tree, such as remove the deadwood, etc., in addition to mitigating the compaction issue?
> 
> Sylvia



Yes, I will be trimming other trees in the campground that have storm damaged and dead branches.

I will take pictures tomorrow, and post them tomorrow evening. They would like me to do what I can to save the large whiteoak, if at all possible.... or remove it if its history. I'm mostly wondering if it is at all possible to bring the main side of the tree back to life, if it is all dead or atleast looks that way with not a single leaf on that side.... can that be "revived" on that side?


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## ATH (Jun 7, 2009)

Jace said:


> ........I'm mostly wondering if it is at all possible to bring the main side of the tree back to life, if it is all dead or atleast looks that way with not a single leaf on that side.... can that be "revived" on that side?



If there are no leaves on it now it is gone.


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## treeseer (Jun 7, 2009)

ATH said:


> If there are no leaves on it now it is gone.


Probably, but if you want to KNOW, just scratch the twigs. Green inside = Hope, Brown inside = Death.

For many "can you save it"? questions, the answer is, "No, your actions have already killed it. Next time, plan."


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## Jace (Jun 8, 2009)

Ahhhhaa! I *finally* figured out how to downsize some of the pictures to fit. Here they are.


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## Jace (Jun 8, 2009)

And here is a decent photo of what caused the primary tree decline, by putting in the electric and water, cutting the roots along the way. It is probably closer than what the picture seems. At most, 20-25' from trunk.


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## S Mc (Jun 8, 2009)

Jace, to be perfectly frank here, if I were the campground manager and could not redirect traffic from under this tree, I would be having it removed. The extent of the damage to this tree and its root system are extensive (as the tree is telling us). The fact that people are allowed to not only drive, but set up their campers directly under it, is really not good at all.

From these pictures I am not convinced that the live side is sufficiently stable by itself to be left alone. If it is, the traffic would have to be permanently redirected away from this tree; both moving and stationary traffic. Because you could go to all extremes to mitigate the compaction issues and it will all be for naught if traffic is allowed back. (IMHO)

Sylvia


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## Jace (Jun 8, 2009)

S Mc said:


> Jace, to be perfectly frank here, if I were the campground manager and could not redirect traffic from under this tree, I would be having it removed. The extent of the damage to this tree and its root system are extensive (as the tree is telling us). The fact that people are allowed to not only drive, but set up their campers directly under it, is really not good at all.
> 
> From these pictures I am not convinced that the live side is sufficiently stable by itself to be left alone. If it is, the traffic would have to be permanently redirected away from this tree; both moving and stationary traffic. Because you could go to all extremes to mitigate the compaction issues and it will all be for naught if traffic is allowed back. (IMHO)
> 
> Sylvia



I agree. I think I will contact them and see if they are willing to sacrifice having that 1 camp sight, w/elec/water/sewage pipes installed & no more traffic, in exchange for the life of the tree, and only a chance of its survival at that.


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## Jace (Jun 8, 2009)

Here is another tree that is majorly hurtin'. My 1st question was how long has it been since the gravel was filled around the trunk . The man said they have not dug anywhere even close to the roots in 15+ years. Its about 2/3 dead. I think this one suffered a combination of a newly paved parking lot a few years back (maybe also altering water run off), and the somewhat compacted root area probably a"little suffocated". I dont see much chance in turning this one around either. Only thing I know is maybe air spading around the graveled area, which has been that way for many years according to the owner.


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## clearance (Jun 8, 2009)

Jace said:


> I agree. I think I will contact them and see if they are willing to sacrifice having that 1 camp sight, w/elec/water/sewage pipes installed & no more traffic, in exchange for the life of the tree, and only a chance of its survival at that.



It will still be a hazard. To anyone who walks under it, and they will. Saw it down for the safety of the campers.


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## S Mc (Jun 8, 2009)

Jace, my heart is breaking. This second tree is confined on all four sides, it appears, by buildings and hardscape. Gravel for its base, not a stitch of organic matter in sight. Presumably the roots have found their way under the buildings in search of nutrients...unfortunately, what I am picturing are parking lots on the other sides.

If by 15+ years since the roots were disturbed the owner was talking about construction of these structures, then this decline could easily have started then. It can take years for construction damage to show. 

Sylvia


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