# Hyway 660 cylinder kit review



## wigglesworth (Feb 15, 2013)

So several weeks ago, Mr. Watson sent me a real nice 660 kit. I could type a lot, and babble a bit, but pictures speak a thousand words....






































It's a pretty slick lookin kit. Only thing I don't like are the split groove rings, but as I understand, Randy W. is carrying cabers for his kits now. 

There is an 066 in transit from VA, and she'll be bolted straight on, timing checked and then sent to the mill to be real world evaluated. 

Should be fun. Stay tuned....


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## Jacob J. (Feb 15, 2013)

That exhaust port looks kinda squared off...


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## wigglesworth (Feb 15, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> That exhaust port looks kinda squared off...



It is a bit. Roof has a pretty good radius, but the sides and floor are a bit flat. I don't "think" it'll be an issue, and I "would" reshape it a bit, but I wanna see how it goes outta da box.


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## gcsupraman (Feb 15, 2013)

Dont mean to ask a stupid question, but is that hole supposed to be off center?

PS Awesome pics btw, can't wait to see it run.


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2013)

These BB 066 kits have to have the exhaust port floor raised in order for them to avoid freeporting at TDC. It seems that they end up a bit squared off after that "revision". I do know for sure that at least Hyway got that part right.....it's doesn't freeport like many I've seen. 

Thanks for the purty pics Mr. Wiggs.


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## Justsaws (Feb 16, 2013)

Not sure how to ask the question but the base looks bad in terms of mold placement but does that inaccuracy transfer to the inside of the cylinder in any way? Is it a wall eyed cylinder? 

Other than the base it looks decent in the photos, seen much worse that is for sure.

How much of the margin of error built into a cylinders port spacing is used up because of a non-symetrical casting before finishing compared to the OEM?


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## watsonr (Feb 16, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These BB 066 kits have to have the exhaust port floor raised in order for them to avoid freeporting at TDC. It seems that they end up a bit squared off after that "revision". I do know for sure that at least Hyway got that part right.....it's doesn't freeport like many I've seen.
> 
> Thanks for the purty pics Mr. Wiggs.



This is the straight 660 kit. Hope it doesn't have that issue like the BB kit does.. if so, I'm not going to be happy!!!


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## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2013)

watsonr said:


> This is the straight 660 kit. Hope it doesn't have that issue like the BB kit does.. if so, I'm not going to be happy!!!



Well the Mako kit was the one that was freeporting.......I still want to see some of their other kits because aside from that issue it was a nice kit.


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## watsonr (Feb 16, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Well the Mako kit was the one that was freeporting.......I still want to see some of their other kits because aside from that issue it was a nice kit.



Yep, I'm stupid today.. 

But I do have a nice looking Mako in straight 660 I ordered special for you:msp_razz: sitting here on my bench. Send back that POS 660 BB and we'll trade.


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## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2013)

watsonr said:


> Yep, I'm stupid today..
> 
> But I do have a nice looking Mako in straight 660 I ordered special for you:msp_razz: sitting here on my bench. Send back that POS 660 BB and we'll trade.



Shoot me an address in an email. 

You never sent me that last invoice either....


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## watsonr (Feb 16, 2013)

Justsaws said:


> Not sure how to ask the question but the base looks bad in terms of mold placement but does that inaccuracy transfer to the inside of the cylinder in any way? Is it a wall eyed cylinder?
> 
> Other than the base it looks decent in the photos, seen much worse that is for sure.
> 
> How much of the margin of error built into a cylinders port spacing is used up because of a non-symetrical casting before finishing compared to the OEM?



Picture 3 and 4 should answer that question.


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## wigglesworth (Feb 16, 2013)

young said:


> btw where the review part of this "REVIEW" thread. j you're such a bonehead :monkey:



Don't u know I'm Slllllllooooooowwwww! 

Silly Asian.....


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## Justsaws (Feb 16, 2013)

watsonr said:


> Picture 3 and 4 should answer that question.



Pictures 3 and 4 are why I am asking the question.

Picture 3 looks bad, but could just be the photo and then viewing the photo on the computer.


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## Rudolf73 (Feb 16, 2013)

Great photos Jeremy.

Many of the lastest 660 AM kits I have seen all seem to have similar cast lines and port shapes, especially the square exhaust port. I wonder if they are cast by the same manufacturer and then machined/ground by individual companies after that...


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## Jacob J. (Feb 16, 2013)

Rudolf73 said:


> Great photos Jeremy.
> 
> Many of the lastest 660 AM kits I have seen all seem to have similar cast lines and port shapes, especially the square exhaust port. I wonder if they are cast by the same manufacturer and then *machined/ground by individual companies* after that...



Malaysian school-age children.


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## Rudolf73 (Feb 16, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Malaysian school-age children.



I would have to agree after seeing the bevelling in some cylinders...


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## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2013)

*40%*


[video=youtube;Z897fnSfxUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z897fnSfxUw&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=40[/video]


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## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2013)

So, I've got this Echo twin I'm building....


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## barneyrb (Feb 17, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> So, I've got this Echo twin I'm building....



This place really changed since you left....


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## stihl sawing (Feb 17, 2013)

Well..OK, Maybe it's time to get back on the cylinder kit. Just sayin.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Well..OK, Maybe it's time to get back on the cylinder kit. Just sayin.



Shaking da bush Boss.


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## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Shaking da bush Boss.



Looks Asian to me....


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Shaking da bush Boss.



Quality-wise, is that cylinder better or worse than the one you were given and used to win the 066 build-off?


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Quality-wise, is that cylinder better or worse than the one you were given and used to win the 066 build-off?



This one has a lower intake port and a bit higher exhaust Tom. That would be a little bit of a handicap if all out performance was my main objective. The bore in this jug is much better though.


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> This one has a lower intake port and a bit higher exhaust Tom. That would be a little bit of a handicap if all out performance was my main objective. The bore in this jug is much better though.



Thanks, that's the kind of information I have come to expect from a fine American, such as yourself.


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

young said:


> its safe to say its too late for that.
> 
> be nice if my peoples would get a nice old skool red light jug to rip off. yea i said rip off. i can do that, why, cause im asian. umpkin2:



When you worked in the factory, building these cylinders, how long did you spend in the quality control department?


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

young said:


> q u a l i t y c o n t r o l?
> 
> i dont understand the word coming out of your month. speak american, or at least englrish.
> 
> at the factory i was mainly responsible for making sure all the circlips would fail as soon as anyone installs them. you know, building in the repeat business into our quality products.



Maybe you and your peeps could knock off a tig welder next?


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## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2013)

New west vs OEM flat top cylinder











OEM






NW






OEM






NW






OEM






NW


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## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2013)

One more. 

OEM






NW


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

young said:


> hey backwoods, we already did. stoopid chimp
> 
> google everlast welders.



I did....read some reviews too. I'll have to pass for now.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> One more.



Not too shabby on the New West cylinder. Looks like they're at about the point where Stihl was when they first started making their own cylinders in the late 90's.


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## barneyrb (Feb 17, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> One more.
> 
> OEM
> 
> ...



What is the volume difference between the 2 combustion chambers? That NW has a little extra looking from here....


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Not too shabby on the New West cylinder. Looks like they're at about the point where Stihl was when they first started making their own cylinders in the late 90's.



Please try to stay on topic.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Please try to stay on topic.



I've had too much coffee.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

barneyrb said:


> What is the volume difference between the 2 combustion chambers? That NW has a little extra looking from here....



It was a bit larger but only a little.......that NW is the cylinder on this saw.

[video=youtube;ulNVq-5uQts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ulNVq-5uQts[/video]


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It was a bit larger but only a little.......that NW is the cylinder on this saw.



Braggart.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Braggart.



You would too.


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## tlandrum (Feb 17, 2013)

north west ,as in nwp from baileys?


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> north west ,as in nwp from baileys?



No. New West


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## DSS (Feb 17, 2013)

Gonna be interesting to see how this thing runs untouched.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

DSS said:


> Gonna be interesting to see how this thing runs untouched.



Looks like to me that Jeremy has already had his meaty mitts all over it.


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## Naked Arborist (Feb 17, 2013)

I thought it looked pretty good compared to some of the crap out there. Time for me post up the 250 build I did.

Are we posting each different build in it's own tread?


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## watsonr (Feb 17, 2013)

What happened? I had some company stay over and now getting to this thread. Looked at page 8 and clicked it before realizing I needed to go to page 4. Read page 4 and then went to go back to 3 and then 4,5,6,7,8 are all gone??


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2013)

watsonr said:


> What happened? I had some company stay over and now getting to this thread. Looked at page 8 and clicked it before realizing I needed to go to page 4. Read page 4 and then went to go back to 3 and then 4,5,6,7,8 are all gone??



Everything directly pertinent to the thread is still here. The thread hijack stuff is gone.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

watsonr said:


> What happened? I had some company stay over and now getting to this thread. Looked at page 8 and clicked it before realizing I needed to go to page 4. Read page 4 and then went to go back to 3 and then 4,5,6,7,8 are all gone??



The off topic crew (including myself) got bored and trashed the place. I'm gonna try (no promises) to stick to the topic a little better, at least in the main forums. :bang:


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## watsonr (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The off topic crew (including myself) got bored and trashed the place. I'm gonna try (no promises) to stick to the topic a little better, at least in the main forums. :bang:



It was about jugs wasn't it?:msp_smile:

Couldn't help mah-self


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

watsonr said:


> It was about jugs wasn't it?:msp_smile:
> 
> *Couldn't help mah-self*



I'm the same way.......I have a tough time being serious all, hell even half the time. I like to poke fun and have a good time everywhere I go. The thing is.......everyone ain't like me. So about these cylinders.........yep, they're made outta metal.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm the same way.......I have a tough time being serious all, hell even half the time. I like to poke fun and have a good time everywhere I go. The thing is.......everyone ain't like me. So about these cylinders.........yep, they're made outta metal.



This place is a lot better off when we all joke around and keep it light-hearted. The people that tend to do the most joking around are also some of the heaviest hitters in the saw world and *** industry. The people that get all uptight about it are the ones with the least experience and who take themselves too seriously (in my experience.)


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> This place is a lot better off when we all joke around and keep it light-hearted. The people that tend to do the most joking around are also some of the heaviest hitters in the saw world and *** industry. The people that get all uptight about it are the ones with the least experience and who take themselves too seriously (in my experience.)



Well JJ I do worry (a little ) that I might come across as a joker and not be taken seriously when I do need to convey something of import. 

Like the advances in cylinder quality that we are seeing these days through the work of guys like Randy and Henry. They really are getting so much better that the need to pay big bucks for an OEM top end is in most cases not necessary anymore.


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Are the non-New West cylinders modeled after the later 660 cylinders?


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Are the non-New West cylinders modeled after the later 660 cylinders?



I've had the opportunity to check port timing on 5 different 066 AM cylinders so far. Except for the New West none have been modeled after the old red light jugs we all look for, but never have I seen one with the exhaust as high as a new 660 except the BB from Baileys. Now to me the exhaust being at 99° would be a great thing. And if the intake could be kept at around 78° that would be nice too. 

I'd like to be able to get an 066 jug made to my specs......that would be too cool.


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've had the opportunity to check port timing on 5 different 066 AM cylinders so far. Except for the New West none have been modeled after the old red light jugs we all look for, but never have I seen one with the exhaust as high as a new 660 except the BB from Baileys. Now to me the exhaust being at 99° would be a great thing. And if the intake could be kept at around 78° that would be nice too.
> 
> I'd like to be able to get an 066 jug made to my specs......that would be too cool.



I'm sure all you need to do is place a minimum order. I paypal'd you $12, that should get the ball rolling.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I'm sure all you need to do is place a minimum order. I paypal'd you $12, that should get the ball rolling.



You are a true and dear friend Tom.


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## bucknfeller (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> This place is a lot better off when we all joke around and keep it light-hearted. The people that tend to do the most joking around are also some of the heaviest hitters in the saw world and *** industry. The people that get all uptight about it are the ones with the least experience and who take themselves too seriously (in my experience.)



Well stated sir, I agree whole heartedly. If it wasn't for the laughs I get out of reading this stuff, I wouldn't come here at all.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> Well stated sir, I agree whole heartedly. If it wasn't for the laughs I get out of reading this stuff, I wouldn't come here at all.



So would I be correct in assuming that you are an "Opportunistic Hooligan" that enjoys life?


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've had the opportunity to check port timing on 5 different 066 AM cylinders so far. Except for the New West none have been modeled after the old red light jugs we all look for, but never have I seen one with the exhaust as high as a new 660 except the BB from Baileys. Now to me the exhaust being at 99° would be a great thing. And if the intake could be kept at around 78° that would be nice too.
> 
> I'd like to be able to get an 066 jug made to my specs......that would be too cool.



That Raisman (Raismann?) cylinder I have has around 170 degrees exhaust duration out of the box. I'll put a wheel on it and see what the timing is, but I know it's higher than an OEM 660 jug.


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## bucknfeller (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> So would I be correct in assuming that you are an "Opportunistic Hooligan" that enjoys life?



You've got it pal, where's the fun in reading a bunch of facts and data? It only takes a couple of 

 to ruin everyones good time.


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## jeepyfz450 (Feb 17, 2013)

The quality of there kits are looking better and better BUT..... My question is how are they holding up to long term use. Part of the problem with the early aftermarket kits was the life expectancy (SP?) was much shorter than OEM. I really like the looks of some of these kits.


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## Rudolf73 (Feb 17, 2013)

Talking about AM kits, how many users have actually seen them wear out...? The way I see it, if the tolerances on the cylinder are accurate and the cylinder plating is good quality the cylinder should last as long as OEM maybe? Oh and the port bevels need to be shaped correctly also. 

I think the AM kits reliability comes down to the quality of the piston and rings. I have heard stories of the piston pin holes wearing out prematurely due to incorrect tolerances and or inferior alloy used. The clips have also been know to fall out and create some horrendous damage. 

So In my mind a good quality AM cylinder with a high quality brand name piston should be a good alternative to OEM considering the price difference.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Well JJ I do worry (a little ) that I might come across as a joker and not be taken seriously when I do need to convey something of import.



I don't worry one little bit about being taken seriously!.......Hahahahahahaha!


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> I don't worry one little bit about being taken seriously!.......Hahahahahahaha!



Yeah but you're Dennis Cahoon Builder of World Record Holding Hotsaws. 

I'm a hack with a grinder. :msp_sad:


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## glock37 (Feb 17, 2013)

Did i hear someone say Jugs !!!


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## Rudolf73 (Feb 17, 2013)

glock37 said:


> Did i hear someone say Jugs !!!



Yeah big bore aftermarket ones... :msp_ohmy:


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## young (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> This place is a lot better off when we all joke around and keep it light-hearted. The people that tend to do the most joking around are also some of the heaviest hitters in the saw world and *** industry. The people that get all uptight about it are the ones with the least experience and who take themselves too seriously (in my experience.)



right on.

i guess AS is like the NFL. *N*O *F*UN *L*EAGUE.


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

What is the expected life expectancy of an OEM cylinder? How long does it take to cut that much wood? 

Say the life expectancy is 1000 hours, is it reasonable to assume someone could cut a cord in an hour? If you cut 50 cords a year, that's 20 years. I'd venture to say that if you get half that time you've probably gotten your money's worth. 

For the all the people that are not running a saw professionally, how many have worn out a cylinder? For that matter, how many pros have worn a cylinder out? Is the cylinder likely to go before the crank, all things being equal?


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah but you're Dennis Cahoon Builder of World Record Holding Hotsaws.
> 
> I'm a hack with a grinder. :msp_sad:



You got the 066 Build Off World Record.


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## bucknfeller (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> What is the expected life expectancy of an OEM cylinder? How long does it take to cut that much wood?
> 
> Say the life expectancy is 1000 hours, is it reasonable to assume someone could cut a cord in an hour? If you cut 50 cords a year, that's 20 years. I'd venture to say that if you get half that time you've probably gotten your money's worth.
> 
> For the all the people that are not running a saw professionally, how many have worn out a cylinder? For that matter, how many pros have worn a cylinder out? Is the cylinder likely to go before the crank, all things being equal?



In my experience, I have never seen a cylinder wear out. It's always some other issue that causes the failure, air leaks, fuel lines, excessive carbon buildup, bad gas being the most common. I have seen saws that were completely worn out, that still had good compression and you could stil see the machine marks on the piston. My opinion is, if a kit makes it through the first 50 hours, it is probably going to go on and last until something else causes it to fail. I'm sure opinions will vary.


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## LegDeLimber (Feb 17, 2013)

some thoughts and questions on the port edges (again).

The 4 black arrows:
looks to be a nick in the tooling.
That's leaving a nasty spot in the transition from one angle to next
(still seeing no actual radiusing being done here)
Those will tend to concentrate pressure/stress thus loading/wear
and likely contribute to an earlier failure point in the plating.

and it seems that the nature of coatings,
(a physics thing, I gather/am told..)
causes them to tend to be thinner on corners, 
so this adds to the problem with the the corners.

Blue arrow:
A little spiked spot, stemming from tool manipulation.
Same potential plating troubles as mentioned above.

Green arrow:
?..could be a smudge line below it from someones questioning fingers 
about that spot
or a scuff from test fitting of parts.


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

LegDeLimber said:


> some thoughts and questions on the port edges (again).
> 
> The 4 black arrows:
> looks to be a nick in the tooling.
> ...



Everywhere you are pointing to is a *bevel*. The bevel isn't exactly the same width so it doesn't run in a straight line. What's important is that it is below the bore before it is plated. There isn't a radius anywhere.


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## tbone75 (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> What is the expected life expectancy of an OEM cylinder? How long does it take to cut that much wood?
> 
> Say the life expectancy is 1000 hours, is it reasonable to assume someone could cut a cord in an hour? If you cut 50 cords a year, that's 20 years. I'd venture to say that if you get half that time you've probably gotten your money's worth.
> 
> For the all the people that are not running a saw professionally, how many have worn out a cylinder? For that matter, how many pros have worn a cylinder out? Is the cylinder likely to go before the crank, all things being equal?



Was wondering about that ? I don't think I could wear one out,I only cut firewood for heat. I haven't been into all this saw stuff that long yet. But I have been into a lot of saws the last 2 years.Seems its always something other than a wore out jug that kills the saw. Neglect seems to be the #1 saw killer. Air leaks #2 . Just what I have seen in the short time I have been into them ?
I know I am not good enough a judge to see less than a huge difference in AM and OEM jug on a saw. Many of you can, even more so with timed cuts. But the average guy like me , I would never know. Now if its just plain junk that falls apart,I may know that one. LOL


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## DSS (Feb 17, 2013)

I've seen some old Pioneers with chrome plated bores wear through the plating. But this is chrome not nikasil and these saws are 40 years old. And they still run. I don't think I've ever seen a worn out jug. Needed new rings, yes. If these only last half as long as OEM, and I don't see why they would, I can't imagine a firewood guy ever wearing one out. The rest of the saw would be pretty ratty if he did.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah but you're Dennis Cahoon Builder of World Record Holding Hotsaws.
> 
> I'm a hack with a grinder. :msp_sad:



We like you anyway Randy. (well, not really, but it sounded nice.)


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## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> We like you anyway Randy. (well, not really, but it sounded nice.)



No need to be nice to me. I spent the biggest part of my life running a crew of construction workers.......I can play the role of anything from a guidance counselor to a loan shark.


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## DSS (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> No need to be nice to me. I spent the biggest part of my life running a crew of construction workers.......I can play the role of anything from a guidance counselor to a loan shark.




Off topic. 

Foul and/or vile. 

What's the most time you've seen put on a saw before it needed a top end JJ?


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> No need to be nice to me. I spent the biggest part of my life running a crew of construction workers.......I can play the role of anything from a guidance counselor to a loan shark.



I'm sure it's similar to running crews of firefighters. I never had any kids of my own because I spent 16 years raising other people's children...


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

DSS said:


> Off topic.
> 
> Foul and/or vile.
> 
> What's the most time you've seen put on a saw before it needed a top end JJ?



Well I usually replaced piston and ring (Huskies) or piston and rings (others) at regular intervals. 
The Huskies would get a new slug at around 5-600 hours. Stihls, around 9-1100 hours. I'd buy a new
saw every 18-24 months and keep the previous one as a back-up. Any others would get reconditioned 
and then sold or traded off. 

I've seen cylinders with the plating worn through, usually landing saws that the crews weren't maintaining
the air filters on. One saw wouldn't turn over because the combustion chamber was packed tightly full of
burnt saw chips.


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## tbone75 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Well I usually replaced piston and ring (Huskies) or piston and rings (others) at regular intervals.
> The Huskies would get a new slug at around 5-600 hours. Stihls, around 9-1100 hours. I'd buy a new
> saw every 18-24 months and keep the previous one as a back-up. Any others would get reconditioned
> and then sold or traded off.
> ...



Do you always use OEM pistons and rings ? Any of the AM pistons as good,or very close ? Never hear that much about the pistons. I hear of a couple most used, half to a third of the cost of OEM.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

tbone75 said:


> Do you always use OEM pistons and rings ? Any of the AM pistons as good,or very close ? Never hear that much about the pistons. I hear of a couple most used, half to a third of the cost of OEM.



Meteor pistons are great and I've cut timber with them. I've cut timber with some NWP pistons as well, but on the NWPs I use Caber or OEM rings. 

I've never cut timber on a VEC or Golf piston, or the unknown "white box" brands.


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## tbone75 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Meteor pistons are great and I've cut timber with them. I've cut timber with some NWP pistons as well, but on the NWPs I use Caber or OEM rings.
> 
> I've never cut timber on a VEC or Golf piston, or the unknown "white box" brands.



Thank you !! 

This 440 kit I am getting,I will use the caber rings .Putting AM bearings and seals in too. Going to pass it around to see how it holds up. I know a couple saw killers ! LOL Not sure I can get enough time on it to find out by myself ?


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Well I usually replaced piston and ring (Huskies) or piston and rings (others) at regular intervals.
> The Huskies would get a new slug at around 5-600 hours. Stihls, around 9-1100 hours. I'd buy a new
> saw every 18-24 months and keep the previous one as a back-up. Any others would get reconditioned
> and then sold or traded off.
> ...



How many months would it take to get to those hours?


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## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> How many months would it take to get to those hours?



32 hours actual saw time a week on average. Sometimes more- if we were pushing Marbled Murrelet season I'd get 42-45 hours in a week behind the saw, but that would only be for about a 3-4 week stretch.


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## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> 32 hours actual saw time a week on average. Sometimes more- if we were pushing Marbled Murrelet season I'd get 42-45 hours in a week behind the saw, but that would only be for about a 3-4 week stretch.



So, 4-5 piston replacements over the length your ownership would not be extraordinary, correct?


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## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 17, 2013)

Come on JJ....you worked mostly for the USPissfirs.....wasn't that many hours on the saw!!!:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> So, 4-5 piston replacements over the length your ownership would not be extraordinary, correct?



That wouldn't happen. The average log cutter here is switching around saws. Some jobs you're using a 460 or a 372. Some jobs you're breaking out a bigger saw. 
It's hard to quantify because you're not using the same saw all the time. One job here you might be straight falling and then the next job might be full manufacture 
in bigger wood. Plus it's different in different regions. The northern California guys are usually cutting bigger wood, so they might be doing more manufacture 
in the brush. The guys on the east side might be doing all of their manufacture in the brush, even in smaller wood.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> 32 hours actual saw time a week on average.



You are so full of it JJ!......that's maybe actual time on the job....not actual saw time!!!!!


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> That wouldn't happen. The average log cutter here is switching around saws. Some jobs you're using a 460 or a 372. Some jobs you're breaking out a bigger saw.
> It's hard to quantify because you're not using the same saw all the time. One job here you might be straight falling and then the next job might be full manufacture
> in bigger wood. Plus it's different in different regions. The northern California guys are usually cutting bigger wood, so they might be doing more manufacture
> in the brush. The guys on the east side might be doing all of their manufacture in the brush, even in smaller wood.



Just trying to get an idea of how maintenance and costs stack up, cylinders versus everything else. Some guys try to make a big stink about how an aftermarket cylinder isn't going to last as long as an OEM one, when it seems that very few people will ever wear either one out before something else kills the saw.


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> That wouldn't happen. The average log cutter here is switching around saws. Some jobs you're using a 460 or a 372. Some jobs you're breaking out a bigger saw.
> It's hard to quantify because you're not using the same saw all the time. One job here you might be straight falling and then the next job might be full manufacture
> in bigger wood. Plus it's different in different regions. The northern California guys are usually cutting bigger wood, so they might be doing more manufacture
> in the brush. The guys on the east side might be doing all of their manufacture in the brush, even in smaller wood.



A normal firewood doof like me almost couldn't wear one out. LOL I would get tired long before it did ! LOL If its taken care of !

Racing saws should be a lot different , I would think ? Has to be way harder on the saw.



Now , whats Wiggs waiting on ? :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> You are so full of it JJ!......that's maybe actual time on the job....not actual saw time!!!!!



How much time did you spend roadside brushing? Doing right-of-ways? Thinning? Fuels reduction? Cutting line around units? I did a lot of that mixed in with cutting logs.



thomas1 said:


> Just trying to get an idea of how maintenance and costs stack up, cylinders versus everything else. Some guys try to make a big stink about how an aftermarket cylinder isn't going to last as long as an OEM one, when it seems that very few people will ever wear either one out before something else kills the saw.



Well, most people are not going to wear out a cylinder, plain and simple. Even tree services that put pretty hard wear and tear on ground saws usually blow bearings, cases, plastic parts long before a jug. If you look at their junk piles, you'll see a lot of their saws still have salvageable cylinders.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> You are so full of it JJ!......that's maybe actual time on the job....not actual saw time!!!!!



What's been your experience as far as saw time per week? Have you ever seen anyone wear out a cylinder from sheer hours of usage?


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> How much time did you spend roadside brushing? Doing right-of-ways? Thinning? Fuels reduction? Cutting line around units? I did a lot of that mixed in with cutting logs.



JJ......Your saw was not running the hours you are claiming!


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 17, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> JJ......Your saw was not running the hours you are claiming!



Maybe, maybe not. I don't worry too much about it. I've put my fair share of time in behind a saw and I've worn out plenty.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 17, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> What's been your experience as far as saw time per week? Have you ever seen anyone wear out a cylinder from sheer hours of usage?



I haven't seen a saw wear out the cylinder without another problem involved. Like I've said before, I would change rings to bring the saw back around if it started to slow up. If the piston was worn I'd change both. If it seized, I'd try to save the cylinder and put in a new piston. The cylinder was usually only a problem if it scratched thru the chrome or nicisil.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 17, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Maybe, maybe not. I don't worry too much about it. I've put my fair share of time in behind a saw and I've worn out plenty.




I'm not saying your saws didn't wear out in time, but I know you run time per-day is off!.....JJ you can't BS a BSer!.....Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## Justsaws (Feb 18, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> What is the expected life expectancy of an OEM cylinder? How long does it take to cut that much wood?
> 
> Say the life expectancy is 1000 hours, is it reasonable to assume someone could cut a cord in an hour? If you cut 50 cords a year, that's 20 years. I'd venture to say that if you get half that time you've probably gotten your money's worth.
> 
> For the all the people that are not running a saw professionally, how many have worn out a cylinder? For that matter, how many pros have worn a cylinder out? Is the cylinder likely to go before the crank, all things being equal?



Here is what I have observed,

Very few plated cylinders are replaced because they are worn out, of those that are the vast majority are open port transfers.

For me, worn out means, the plating has worn away or the bore has become to out of shape compared to one with less use, and a new piston is a loose fit at best. A common example would be the 1127s Stihls, 029-039s, tons of them out there. Sometimes they can be re-done with a new piston but sometimes the bore is to to worn for just a piston. Would a new piston make the saw run, probably, but the value would be marginal compared to a new P/C set especially if a person was paying a shop rate rebuild. As the new piston wears in the amount of time it is a good running saw is reduced faster as the fit was already impaired. 020-200Ts are another example, I have a lot cylinders for those that would be useable but not as good as a new one in terms of durabilty, I am unaware of any shops in the area that will replace only the piston on a 200T rebuild. 

In terms of wearing out a cylinder myself, from start to finish, I have only owned and used one from start to finish, the one in my original Makita 520 DCS, the cylinder looks okay but a new piston fit in it like a hotdog in a hallway, and yes more than one new piston was tried. The crank and bearings are fine but the saw is done, needs a cylinder, clutch and a crankcase. I got my money's worth out of that saw.

Poulan 3400s are also a saw that I have seen more than a few worn out cylinders on. They get the ridge in the bore where the rings stop. Not fixing that with a new piston.

My last remaining 1100CD cylinder has worn through the plating, looks great other than the missing plating but I should not use it anymore and have not in years. I did not provide most of the run time on that cylinder but I finished it off. 

I have come across lots of other but those are what sprung to mind.

Luckily most P/Cs are not worn out when they are replaced or I would have to buy A LOT more cylinders and that would have me buying a lot more AM kits which I am not opposed to for my own personal use as long as the value that I am after is there. Bolt on out of the box complete kit, buyer beware at rock bottom price. Once an AM kit is close to 50% of OEM cost I am going OEM. Now the problem with 1122s is the freak'n OEM kits at $300.00 are not much of a value anymore.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 18, 2013)

On the 029-039's was the plating worn or did the casting shift, causing the bore to no longer be concentric?


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 18, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> On the 029-039's was the plating worn or did the casting shift, causing the bore to no longer be concentric?



I have never seen one of them wore,only scored. Think I have had 5 of the 029/290s and 2 of the MS310s , all scored. With another 029 on the way,same thing.


----------



## Grande Dog (Feb 18, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> So several weeks ago, Mr. Watson sent me a real nice 660 kit. I could type a lot, and babble a bit, but pictures speak a thousand words....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Howdy, 

Glad you like it. It's taken me a lot of years of pushing, pulling, and prodding on a shoestring budget to get to this point. No, they're not quite there yet but, we're getting closer all the time. If you have a stock bore kit there, and the exhaust port has been raised with a shortened piston, something is wrong. That set up was just for the big bores where the crankcase has random clearance issues with the piston. Doing it to a standard bore would cause you to lose displacement for no reason.

Regards
Gregg


----------



## Justsaws (Feb 19, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> On the 029-039's was the plating worn or did the casting shift, causing the bore to no longer be concentric?



In general I would say between the two choices above it would be plating worn by a very large margin and then what I think you are calling casting shift, what I refered to as being the out of shape, with both those choices trailing way way behing lean damage. This is where someone with a better understanding of cylinders than me will hopefully step in. 

That being said I did pick up some used cylinders today.....

Typically on the 1127s it is damage caused by being run to lean. All 6 of the 1127 cylinders I got today that is the case. 

One of those cylinders has the plating worn through on the intake side top and bottom and above the exhaust port. 

None have any detectable ring ridge. I use a fine wire dental pick, it works very well. 

I did not get the pistons with these cylinders but I would suspect that they were fairly low hour saws and the pistons would have very little transfer port imprint on them and that 5 of the pistons would still have fairly even thick piston skirts. 

The piston that went with the cylinder with the worn through plating was probably fairly thin on the intake and exhaust skirts but judging by the color of the bore on the transfer partitions it was not a high hour saw just a horribly maintained one.

The cylinders that have the pistons with the really deep side imprints, the super thin exhaust side skirts and super thinned rings are the ones that really need to be measured/tested before slapping a new piston in them. These will typically have a fairly strong imprint of the piston travel on the bore as well as the piston. Not just a "carbon" print but actual clean it up with a ScotchBrite pad and it will look good but can still feel a ridge with a pick imprint. This is what I think you are refering to as casting shift. If that is correct, I see very few of those compared to lean damage or worn plating. One thing about cylinders in this condition, even if they look very clean and the plating looks very good if they are treated with acid a lot more holes will show up than with a cylinder with much less use.

I have had a few cylinders where the transition from the bore wall to the roof seems to have increased with wear to the point of not being useable, ring snag. However it was accomplished I feel that those were caused by poor quality control(bad machining/poor plating) and do not include them as a bore with a use induce ring ridge.

Todays 1127 numbers would be:

[email protected] cylinders
6 lean damage
1 plating worn through, finished off with exhaust side piston alum transfer, alot of it.
0 casting shift

Todays total haul was fairly small so not much 1127s stuff was included. This is a good thing.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

Test mule is here.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Test mule is here.



Will this be done before the Echo Twin? oke:


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Glad you like it. It's taken me a lot of years of pushing, pulling, and prodding on a shoestring budget to get to this point. No, they're not quite there yet but, we're getting closer all the time. If you have a stock bore kit there, and the exhaust port has been raised with a shortened piston, something is wrong. That set up was just for the big bores where the crankcase has random clearance issues with the piston. Doing it to a standard bore would cause you to lose displacement for no reason.
> 
> ...



Since no one else will say it, I will. 

Gregg,
I think you may be mistaken, this in not a kit supplied by Bailey's.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Test mule is here.



Nice, here we go!!!!

Jeremy, those two junk kits were received and sent back. Thanks!


----------



## Grande Dog (Feb 22, 2013)

Howdy,
If they're coming from Hyway, they're the kits we've been developing all along. Seriously, after seeing all the aftermarket kits from that end of the world, you really didn't think there was somebody that pulled that quality out of their ass, and you just happened to fall back in it.
Regards
Gregg


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 22, 2013)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> If they're coming from Hyway, they're the kits we've been developing all along. Seriously, after seeing all the aftermarket kits from that end of the world, you really didn't think there was somebody that pulled that quality out of their ass, and you just happened to fall back in it.
> Regards
> Gregg



Just curious why Hyway kits aren't listed on the Baileys site? Are they labeled NWP? If so way are the NWP kits I see not nearly as nice?


----------



## w8ye (Feb 22, 2013)

Heads up on Far Eastern Business Philosophy?

The interactive working relationship of Hiway and Bailey's concerning the refinement of after market cylinders over the years . . . and then for Hiway to openly market the product to everyone, goes to show the typical business model of that part of the world?

There is no such thing as intellectual property?


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> If they're coming from Hyway, they're the kits we've been developing all along. Seriously, after seeing all the aftermarket kits from that end of the world, you really didn't think there was somebody that pulled that quality out of their ass, and you just happened to fall back in it.
> Regards
> Gregg




And since you have put all that work into them, why the switch to Raisman for the NWP brands? All that work and only two suppliers in the US that I can see, why not you?


----------



## Grande Dog (Feb 22, 2013)

Howdy,
I'm positive they come from the same place. We sell them under the NWP Brand. Just about every time I have them run a batch, they get improvements (knock on wood) implemented. So almost every time we get our orders in we have to place the new product on the back of the shelf until the current generation sells through. I think the worst overlap I had was 4, or 5 months. So I can see where there can be slight discrepancies between something fresh off their shelf, and something off of ours but, in most cases it shouldn't be night and day. You really do need a scorecard to see who's doing who over there but, we knew that going in so it's not surprising.
I hope people don't take this as sour grapes because competition is what makes the world go around. Whether it drives quality up, or prices down, I think it makes things better for all of us. With the current economic climate, as long as our sales keep growing, it's status quo. If I feel things are slipping, I either have to increase quality, or decrease prices, or both. So far, we've been constantly improving them. I was the one who got them together with Meteor. I think it was a win for everybody including end users. 
Regards
Gregg


----------



## Grande Dog (Feb 22, 2013)

Howdy,
We are going to be maketing Raismans full line of products. The quality, and support of their individual products will stand on their brand name. We don't have any plans to change our manufacturer for our NWP product.
Regards
Gregg


----------



## young (Feb 22, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Will this be done before the Echo Twin? oke:



anythings possible.


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 22, 2013)

young said:


> anythings possible.



There is new Echo twin on flea bay right now ! LOL


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks Gregg,

I've put the NWP and the Hyways side by side. They seem to look different, weigh different, maybe even perform different? Same production line and made in Taiwan? Would you consider the NWP grade "A" and if so why a 30 day warranty and not more? I appreciate that you weighed in on the thread and applaud you on your efforts to improve the market and quality of aftermarket parts in general.

It almost looked like you tried to take credit for the sale of my product to my customer, as if you provided it....:msp_sneaky: I'm sure if you read the post again you will see where we could be confused.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Glad you like it. It's taken me a lot of years of pushing, pulling, and prodding on a shoestring budget to get to this point. No, they're not quite there yet but, we're getting closer all the time.
> 
> ...



See what I mean?


----------



## huskydude (Feb 22, 2013)

watsonr said:


> See what I mean?



No. You are a middleman. Did you start the Hyway brand? He's not taking away from YOUR sale, he is stating that he developed the product. Big difference.


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## Grande Dog (Feb 22, 2013)

Howdy,
Sorry, it wasn't my intention to sound that way but, I certainly can see your point. Our NWP kits have always carried a 1 year warranty. The Bailey's 30 day satisfaction gaurantee is a no questions asked gaurantee. Which means if you get anything from us. and even you don't like the way it parts it's hair, we'll replace, refund, or credit in full for the item.
Regards
Gregg

***** I tried to go back and add a note to this original post to clarify my statement but, the ability to edit must be for a limited time frame.*****


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 22, 2013)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> Sorry, it wasn't my intention to sound that way but, I certainly can see your point. Our NWP kits have always carried a 1 year warranty. The Bailey's 30 day satisfaction gaurantee is a no questions asked gaurantee. Which means if you get anything from us. and even you don't like the way it parts it's hair, we'll replace, refund, or credit in full for the item.
> Regards
> Gregg



and this is why you guys are awesome!


----------



## Majorpayne (Feb 22, 2013)

FATGUY said:


> and this is why you guys are awesome!



Suckass.


----------



## bucknfeller (Feb 22, 2013)

huskydude said:


> No. You are a middleman. Did you start the Hyway brand? He's not taking away from YOUR sale, he is stating that he developed the product. Big difference.



They are both middlemen dude.


----------



## huskydude (Feb 22, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> They are both middlemen dude.



Yes they are. And one developed the brand.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's where I'm at guys. 

I'm not sure which set of numbers I don't like the most. 







The OEM jug has really high transfers for a 66. Highest I've seen. I checked it several different times, made sure the wheel was zeroed several times, and got the same thing each time. 

The highway jug has a lower exhaust, which is a good thing, lower transfers, which I like on the 66, but the intake is crap. Way too low for my liking. Some folks say it doesn't hurt a 66, but I don't like it. 


Here is the OEM making a few cuts. 28" 8 pin rim. 

[video=youtube;YqrTGIlgTe4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqrTGIlgTe4&list=UUvEG38T8e7zTVuj5qqvYPQQ&index=1[/video]

This saw was the "Stumping Saw" for a tree service in Salem, VA and has been rode hard and put up wet. I've already helicoiled both muffler bolts in the case, and it has a helicoil for one jug bolt, and I stripped another, so it'll have to be helicoiled before I can run the hyway kit any. 

Factory jug had carbon buildup that was .032 thick!! Makes ya think twice about .020 squish






And .010 on the crown. 







Back to the hyway kit. JJ nailed it in his first post. Once I slid the piston up in it, it became evident the roof was extremely flat. Hard to tell looking down the bore. The rings slide past it, and I don't feel any resistance from it, and will give it a go as is...u know...for science and all. 







So there's where I'm at. Gotta pull it back down, helicoil the jug bolt and slap it back together. Might be a day or two. 

And yes Young, I know, I'm slow....


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Here's where I'm at guys.
> 
> *I'm not sure which set of numbers I don't like the most. *



066?

otstir:


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> 066?
> 
> otstir:



From a modding standpoint, the OEM jug has more potential, due to less intake duration. 

For a run it like it is, I would think the hyway would have an edge over the stock due to the lower exhaust port, but has too much intake to lower the jug any, if one were to cut the chamber. Also, I really wanna reshape the exhaust port, but science won't let me.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> From a modding standpoint, the OEM jug has more potential, due to less intake duration.
> 
> For a run it like it is, I would think the hyway would have an edge over the stock due to the lower exhaust port, but has too much intake to lower the jug any, if one were to cut the chamber. Also, I really wanna reshape the exhaust port, but science won't let me.



You can chop it up....after the science fair.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> From a modding standpoint, the OEM jug has more potential, due to less intake duration.
> 
> For a run it like it is, I would think the hyway would have an edge over the stock due to the lower exhaust port, but has too much intake to lower the jug any, if one were to cut the chamber. Also, I really wanna reshape the exhaust port, but science won't let me.



Does the jug need lowered? You guys have said a flatter, wider port yields more power, that picture looks to be pushing it. The OEM jug allows you to modify it more is what your saying? The HyWay may not need modifications to be a bolt and go kick butt runner is what your saying? Lots of guys can't afford to or care to have a ported saw, just a good runner and your professional opinion may just prove that.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

huskydude said:


> Yes they are. And one developed the brand.



If he developed the product and the NWP brand it would be equal to or better than OEM. After all, isn't that the idea? He's had more input than anybody I would think.. he made the NWP brand what it is today .... more what you mean?


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

watsonr said:


> Does the jug need lowered? You guys have said a flatter, wider port yields more power, that picture looks to be pushing it. The OEM jug allows you to modify it more is what your saying? The HyWay may not need modifications to be a bolt and go kick butt runner is what your saying? Lots of guys can't afford to or care to have a ported saw, just a good runner and your professional opinion may just prove that.



I'm not sure I'm a pro, but I am Internet certified. 

If I were to cut the chamber to lower the exhaust port like I like to do 066's, it would push the intake down too far. 

The exhaust port is too flat for my liking, but may run just fine. I'll hopefully know tomorrow. 

If the comp is good with this kit, the numbers show it could be a real good runner as it sits.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> I'm not sure I'm a pro, but I am Internet certified.
> 
> If I were to cut the chamber to lower the exhaust port like I like to do 066's, it would push the intake down too far.
> 
> ...



That's what were talking about, PRO-fessional opinion! No need to cut the jug, the exhaust is already lowered?


----------



## stihlbro (Feb 22, 2013)

I say you got a well used saw, it should be a perfect candidate for the replacement cylinder. It's almost a ideal situation for a true test, in other words, well used.....kinda weak......time for a freshen up. The cost verses going Oem or aftermarket. 

I say bolt the cylinder up as is.

Now, something else, I wonder if one of those hour meters that has the wire that wrap around the spark plug wire would work on the saw. That way the total number of hours could be kept up with. I'm not sure it will work because I've only seen them advertised for lawn mowers. No need to keep up with how many tanks are run thru it.

Carbon build up! Wow! That was a lot! Do you think the saw was ran improperly tuned? Or did it appear as normal build up?


----------



## huskydude (Feb 22, 2013)

watsonr said:


> If he developed the product and the NWP brand it would be equal to or better than OEM. After all, isn't that the idea? He's had more input than anybody I would think.. he made the NWP brand what it is today .... more what you mean?



Dumb irrelevant post. For one, quality had zero inclusion in my argument. And for two, you know based on what you have posted in other threads, it is difficult to control production of chinese goods. 

You acted like the Hyway brand was your own. That is what I called you out on.


----------



## stihlbro (Feb 22, 2013)

http://http://www.amazon.com/Tachometer-Stroke-Engine-Outboard-Mercury/dp/B00ACDP6YU



This is a hour meter like I was thinking about.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> I say you got a well used saw, it should be a perfect candidate for the replacement cylinder. It's almost a ideal situation for a true test, in other words, well used.....kinda weak......time for a freshen up. The cost verses going Oem or aftermarket.



It's definitely got some time on it. Probably the hardest thing on a saw besides milling has to be stumping. 



stihlbro said:


> I say bolt the cylinder up as is.



That's da plan. 




stihlbro said:


> Now, something else, I wonder if one of those hour meters that has the wire that wrap around the spark plug wire would work on the saw. That way the total number of hours could be kept up with. I'm not sure it will work because I've only seen them advertised for lawn mowers. No need to keep up with how many tanks are run thru it.



That would be slick. It'll be going to the mill to cut lumber stacks and buck logs. It's gonna get used all day, everyday. 



stihlbro said:


> Carbon build up! Wow! That was a lot! Do you think the saw was ran improperly tuned? Or did it appear as normal build up?



It was lean when it got here. Plug was pretty white too. What was weird was from the plug back back to the intake was clean as a whistle.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 22, 2013)

huskydude said:


> Dumb irrelevant post. For one, quality had zero inclusion in my argument. And for two, you know based on what you have posted in other threads, it is difficult to control production of chinese goods.
> 
> *You acted like the Hyway brand was your own. That is what I called you out on.*



I think Randy was just trying to make the distinction that he was *not* reselling kits from Bailey's?


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

huskydude said:


> Dumb irrelevant post. For one, quality had zero inclusion in my argument. And for two, you know based on what you have posted in other threads, it is difficult to control production of chinese goods.
> 
> You acted like the Hyway brand was your own. That is what I called you out on.



Never claimed to have developed it and as you say, I'm the middle man.. sure. It does happen to be my product line yes. I just choose not to put my name on the side if it, costs more that way and I still get input on its development in future builds. I even get to choose the quality of the product and prefer to purchase grade A cylinders vice a lower grade that some distributors use..... Not to be interpreted as me saying Bailey's is an inferior product. Fact is we've seen more threads on aftermarket cylinders in the last four months compared to the last 3 year's. I welcome his input, every bodies actually and why I keep buying cylinders for testing... So we get a good product at reasonable price. I am proud of what's happened lately here and do feel like I've done something in a short period of time.... And maybe a little protective of it.


----------



## stihlbro (Feb 22, 2013)

> It was lean when it got here. Plug was pretty white too. What was weird was from the plug back back to the intake was clean as a whistle.




Looks like a little wash or more complete burn around the spark plug. But that just a opinion.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Looks like a little wash or more complete burn around the spark plug. But that just a opinion.



Maybe that plug needs to be indexed to get a better more even burn?


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Looks like a little wash or more complete burn around the spark plug. But that just a opinion.



Could be. But in all the used cylinders I've ever held, I've never seen one with particular pattern to it.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Could be. But in all the used cylinders I've ever held, I've never seen one with particular pattern to it.



This one is shaped in front of the electrode. Interesting to see.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 22, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Could be. But in all the used cylinders I've ever held, I've never seen one with particular pattern to it.



It looks like a buttercup. I really think it should be preserved in it's current state for future generations to see and enjoy in the way I enjoyed seeing it today.

Thanks, Bye


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 22, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It looks like a buttercup. I really think it should be preserved in it's current state for future generations to see and enjoy in the way I enjoyed seeing it today.
> 
> Thanks, Bye



I love buttercup...

[video=youtube;N3ug0dVCyeE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ug0dVCyeE[/video]


----------



## stihlbro (Feb 23, 2013)

Running yet?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 23, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Running yet?



opcorn:


----------



## tlandrum (Feb 23, 2013)

jeremy is sometimes a litttttllllllleeeee ssssssllllllllloooooooowwwwwwwww :rolleyes2:


----------



## stihlbro (Feb 23, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Running yet?



What about now? Come now........this is the best thing since RGIII.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 23, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Running yet?



Nope. Had to finish a goat roping job this morning. :/


----------



## 8433jeff (Feb 23, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> It's definitely got some time on it. Probably the hardest thing on a saw besides milling has to be stumping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My opinion:

I would change oils used, and they may have done that already, knowingly or otherwise. As consumers, we are not told if Brand XYZ is still adding (or maybe not adding anymore) component 345 to their blend.

I bought some oil called "Rejuvenate" and you can tell its cleaning carbon out, quick, fast and in a hurry. Whether thats good or not...

Pre-ignition?


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 23, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Nope. Had to finish a goat roping job this morning. :/



You running that saw on lectric ? :msp_sneaky:


----------



## excess650 (Feb 23, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Nope. Had to finish a goat raping job this morning. :/
> 
> You Kaintuck boys sure are hardcore.


----------



## 1dragon (Feb 23, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Nope. Had to finish a goat roping job this morning. :/



Looks like a couple hour job. What did ya do with the rest of the day?????? :msp_biggrin: Cant you tell em WE have priorities??


----------



## rburg (Feb 23, 2013)

I am glad to see you finally got electricity.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 23, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Nope. Had to finish a goat roping job this morning. :/



Nice slick work Jer.


----------



## excess650 (Feb 23, 2013)

rburg said:


> I am glad to see you finally got electricity.



The outhouse first, eh? That appears to be the proverbial brick $hithou$e.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 23, 2013)

Figured I should come prepared today!





Lots of people watching... including my local dealer! 

Interesting things we talked about a few weeks ago, my local dealer and I. I've been friends with the mechanic in the back for a couple years and he does a few side jobs to make ends meet. He started using some of the parts I had access to and told the boss a few weeks ago to speak with me about it. Our discussion was that he's loosing business, sales are down and that the shop in the back was keeping them afloat and that it to was dwindling. He knows I use aftermarket parts and that his mechanic does a few side jobs for those that can't afford to pay a premium for OEM parts. He's good with that as he knows he can't pay the mechanic nearly what hes worth or what he has to charge customers to keep things running.... my dealer is now nearly $90 an hour and won't even touch your stuff without a service fee minimum. BUT he knows the service department is the money maker and that $90 fee is killing them.

I told him that every customer that chooses not to pay the high price of repair walks out and won't come back and that using aftermarket parts on non-warranty repairs may save his business. He could give the option to use OEM or aftermarket for half the price and he gets a customer... maybe for life because he is trying to save them money.

Since that discussion a few weeks ago and a recent visit to the shop last Thursday... he's smiling again. Wanted to say thanks to all of you watching this thread, all of you that have done a test of one of these cylinders. Not only are you making a difference, its helping others that you may not have realized.

One of you told your local dealer about this same exact topic and he called to see what the chatter was about.....

Thanks GUYS, my hats off to you.... 


back to the topic.... what's keeping him so long? After a breakfast like that one I need desert now!


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 23, 2013)

Nice clean neat wiring job, You licensed?


----------



## watsonr (Feb 23, 2013)

Hey Randy,
It was a three egg omelet with sausage, onion and cheese. Thick sliced ham slab, wheat toast, fruit, OJ and coffee.. no pie though, they said it was too early... California.... 

Henry said that the VA GTG is good for him. He's all giddy, what did you say to him?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 23, 2013)

watsonr said:


> Hey Randy,
> It was a three egg omelet with sausage, onion and cheese. Thick sliced ham slab, wheat toast, fruit, OJ and coffee.. no pie though, they said it was too early... California....
> 
> Henry said that the VA GTG is good for him. He's all giddy, what did you say to him?



Told him I'd bring pie.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 23, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Told him I'd bring pie.



What I thought. I don't think he cares about the saws like we do, but food... OH YEA!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 23, 2013)

watsonr said:


> What I thought. I don't think he cares about the saws like we do, but food... OH YEA!!!



We'll have him run some well ported saws.....that might brig him around.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 23, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> We'll have him run some well ported saws.....that might brig him around.



It will, especially that 353 were doing  AND some with long bars!


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 23, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Nice clean neat wiring job, You licensed?



Thanks, and Yup.


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 23, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> Thanks, and Yup.


Figured ya was after lookin at the box.:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## DSS (Feb 23, 2013)

Still waiting on pics of the goat. 

And the 066. 

Is this gonna turn into a thread like a certain mysterious yeller saw with two spark plugs?:rolleyes2:


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 23, 2013)

DSS said:


> Still waiting on pics of the goat.
> 
> And the 066.
> 
> Is this gonna turn into a thread like a certain mysterious yeller saw with two spark plugs?:rolleyes2:


Muh truck don't have spark plugs.Who needs em anyway.


----------



## stihlbro (Feb 23, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> What about now? Come now........this is the best thing since RGIII.



What about now? Geez! I think you are holding out on "buttecup"???:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## WoodChuck'r (Feb 23, 2013)

[video=youtube;eIInySnQe4I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIInySnQe4I[/video]


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 25, 2013)

So, it almost made it thru one tank......


It was running 32:1 mix, and tuned pig rich, like I do all my "new" top ends, but it hosed the rings (OEM I might add) in the first tank of fuel, and started smearing itself on the exhaust side.

Here you can see the crazy wear on the rings. The top edge took a pounding, and started rounding them over. I dont think they would had lasted a second tank. 

















So....

IMHO, these are not a bolt on and go kit. They will need rework on the exhaust port roof, to add a radius as to not eat the rings off. Its just too square. 

I will be re-shaping the exhaust port roof, and installing a new meteor piston and giving it another go. I dont expect any problems, as the rest of the kit looks super nice, but I hate to take the exhaust up more, but aint no way around it. Im going to try to keep it under 170° duration, if at all possible. I might have to widen it a touch to do that.

So there there you have it, for now...


----------



## Naked Arborist (Feb 25, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> It's definitely got some time on it. Probably the hardest thing on a saw besides milling has to be stumping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That to me looks like liquid cooled engine oil run in an air cooled engine. It makes a real mess on the hot side.


----------



## Naked Arborist (Feb 25, 2013)

You said, "one tank" EWW that is just fugly Wiggs real fugly man!


----------



## Rudolf73 (Feb 25, 2013)

Ouch


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 25, 2013)

Naked Arborist said:


> You said, "one tank" EWW that is just fugly Wiggs real fugly man!



And half that tank was idling...




Rudolf73 said:


> Ouch



Yep.


----------



## Mike from Maine (Feb 25, 2013)

:msp_ohmy: :msp_thumbdn:


opcorn:


----------



## excess650 (Feb 25, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> That exhaust port looks kinda squared off...



JJ had it nailed from the getgo! The roof of the exhaust port looked awfully flat.....here we go, another AM parts trashing thread.


----------



## Gologit (Feb 25, 2013)

excess650 said:


> ....here we go, another AM parts trashing thread.



Let's hope not. The results in this particular case kind of speak for themselves, though.


----------



## 8433jeff (Feb 25, 2013)

Wonder if Grande Dog wants credit now.


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 25, 2013)

Ouch, Don't think the savings would justify buying that one.


----------



## DSS (Feb 25, 2013)

Well at least we know what not to buy. Or what to do to it before we run it. And that's the purpose of these threads anyway. 

Wiggs needs some pie. 

Hopefully Tbone has better luck.


----------



## Naked Arborist (Feb 25, 2013)

I may regret saying this but, we all seen it coming. You are the humble owner of a very ####ty day  I don't think any of us expected it to munch the rings quite that fast. That part was not "plug N play." :bang:

Give Wiggs beer and pie and labor time and rings and piston and ...


----------



## Yukon Stihl (Feb 25, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Muh truck don't have spark plugs.Who needs em anyway.


Real trucks don't have spark plugs


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 25, 2013)

DSS said:


> Well at least we know what not to buy. Or what to do to it before we run it. And that's the purpose of these threads anyway.
> 
> Wiggs needs some pie.
> 
> Hopefully Tbone has better luck.



The exhaust port was better shaped on the 440 kit,good so far !


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Jer for taking your time to show us what won't work....... 

Also thanks needs to go the Randy and Henry for spending their money supplying these kits and postage. 

This is not a loss......I hope we all see that. These results will be shown to the manufacturer, that I'm sure of. It's been my experience that the 066 kit is the worst for exhaust shape...and us reshaping the port is not a solution I'm comfortable with. They must do better.


----------



## srcarr52 (Feb 25, 2013)

Ouch. But that is the type of brutally honest feedback Randy needs.


----------



## gcsupraman (Feb 25, 2013)

Yikes! 

Wiggs, Thank you very much for taking the time to do this thread and sharing your findings. Hopefully the manufacturer will resolve the obvious issues so we have a high quality AM alternative.

Greg


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 25, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> Ouch. But that is the type of brutally honest feedback Randy needs.



Yes it is Shawn. Now to show the manufacturer this thread.


----------



## Grande Dog (Feb 25, 2013)

Howdy,
OMG! where did you get that junk. I still say that they're coming from the same place. I know you say they look different. It might be possible that they have different production lines but, they're fairly small as far manufacturers go so I really don't think so. I know when I drag the numbers out, people don't believe it, or say they don't tell the whole story. I agree with that but, I think the error percentage is small. We keep a good record of these numbers so we can judge viability by product performance. I believe our equivalent for the kit tested would be the CKN 066. For 2012 we sold 361 with 3 returns. Does this mean we recorded every single one that crashed?, of course not. But, I do think that when our customer has at least a Benjamin tied up, and they don't think it's their fault, pretty good chance a large percentage is going to let us know. There are others that claim we're out of touch with our product but, when we run our $30 labor special for a AM cylinder replacements, we literally install 100's of NWP kits over a 3, or 4 month period. These saws come from all over the country, and, I would imagine they get run through just about every wringer out there. We use all the parts that come with the kit, 50:1 mix, stick in the test log, and run it like we own it. I know everybody has their own way, and I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just saying what works well for us.
Regards
Gregg


----------



## jockeydeuce (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for doing a test like this, Wiggs!!

It's good to know that these things aren't plug and play. I've been considering these kits as a cheap bolt on for some saws, but I guess they need some lovin' first.... Time is money in my world, so if you have to "massage" these things before you can run them, the point of the low cost is lost.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 25, 2013)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Glad you like it. It's taken me a lot of years of pushing, pulling, and prodding on a shoestring budget to get to this point. No, they're not quite there yet but, we're getting closer all the time. If you have a stock bore kit there, and the exhaust port has been raised with a shortened piston, something is wrong. That set up was just for the big bores where the crankcase has random clearance issues with the piston. Doing it to a standard bore would cause you to lose displacement for no reason.
> 
> ...





Grande Dog said:


> Howdy,
> OMG! where did you get that junk. I still say that they're coming from the same place. I know you say they look different. It might be possible that they have different production lines but, they're fairly small as far manufacturers go so I really don't think so. I know when I drag the numbers out, people don't believe it, or say they don't tell the whole story. I agree with that but, I think the error percentage is small. We keep a good record of these numbers so we can judge viability by product performance. I believe our equivalent for the kit tested would be the CKN 066. For 2012 we sold 361 with 3 returns. Does this mean we recorded every single one that crashed?, of course not. But, I do think that when our customer has at least a Benjamin tied up, and they don't think it's their fault, pretty good chance a large percentage is going to let us know. There are others that claim we're out of touch with our product but, when we run our $30 labor special for a AM cylinder replacements, we literally install 100's of NWP kits over a 3, or 4 month period. These saws come from all over the country, and, I would imagine they get run through just about every wringer out there. We use all the parts that come with the kit, 50:1 mix, stick in the test log, and run it like we own it. I know everybody has their own way, and I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm just saying what works well for us.
> Regards
> Gregg


----------



## watsonr (Feb 25, 2013)

Wiggs.... Thanks for the test and honest review. This will go a long way to show that we want some changes to the kit.. Thanks for your time!

Randy... This is the toughest one to get right. I think Johns test of the 440 is going very well as are most of the others.

This thread will go back to the manufacturer for review and hopefully a correction to the product. AND I believe threads like this help us as a community force change.

These 066 Hyway cylinders are not for sale on the site any longer. If you have a Hyway 066 cylinder from me, please send me a PM.. I think this is the only one I let out.


----------



## Cantdog (Feb 25, 2013)

Been following these threads since you became a sponsor.....uphill struggle most of the way....you have showed your metal in this thread..I don't have anything modern enough to use your products so have no dog in the fight.....but the way you handle yourself goes along way to form my opinion of you and your business practices.. You hit a bump on this one...and shut er down right then and there...rather than send more bad units out or argue that this was the exception...good for you...this is how progress is actually made..talk to the mgrs....show the pics.....takes time and money to make money...


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 25, 2013)

watsonr said:


> Wiggs.... Thanks for the test and honest review. This will go a long way to show that we want some changes to the kit.. Thanks for your time!
> 
> Randy... This is the toughest one to get right. I think Johns test of the 440 is going very well as are most of the others.
> 
> ...




Thanks for giving me the opportunity to review it. Really wish it hadn't hit the snag, but such is life. 

When u give the manufacturer feedback, make sure to tell them, if they alter the roof shape, not to raise it any, if anything, lower it .020-.030 or so. And while we're on port timing, if the intake went up .050, it sure wouldn't hurt anything.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 25, 2013)

Man I hoper the dolmar 84 cc kit last longer than this.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 25, 2013)

Cantdog said:


> Been following these threads since you became a sponsor.....uphill struggle most of the way....you have showed your metal in this thread..I don't have anything modern enough to use your products so have no dog in the fight.....but the way you handle yourself goes along way to form my opinion of you and your business practices.. You hit a bump on this one...and shut er down right then and there...rather than send more bad units out or argue that this was the exception...good for you...this is how progress is actually made..talk to the mgrs....show the pics.....takes time and money to make money...



Thanks... I'm at a loss as to why this hasn't happened this way before AND I'm tired of hearing the same old song and dance.... Aftermarket parts are junk and always have been......... Your input matters if we ever plan to advance, today was a win in my book because of guys like Wigglesworth, TBone75 and all the others testing and documenting these.... I appreciate your input, honesty and time you've put into your projects. Wished there was something else I could reward you with, I can say THANK YOU :msp_smile:


----------



## Rudolf73 (Feb 25, 2013)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Man I hoper the dolmar 84 cc kit last longer than this.



Take some photos and I'm sure the members on here can give you an evaluation of the port shapes and beveling before you put in on.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 25, 2013)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Man I hoper the dolmar 84 cc kit last longer than this.



ME TOO!! And if it doesn't, I'll make it right.


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 25, 2013)

watsonr said:


> Thanks... I'm at a loss as to why this hasn't happened this way before AND I'm tired of hearing the same old song and dance.... Aftermarket parts are junk and always have been......... Your input matters if we ever plan to advance, today was a win in my book because of guys like Wigglesworth, TBone75 and all the others testing and documenting these.... I appreciate your input, honesty and time you've put into your projects. Wished there was something else I could reward you with, I can say THANK YOU :msp_smile:



Thank you Randy for trying your best to help all of us out ! The 440 kit is doing great so far !

Don't mean to hijack this thread , but I nee some opinions on this 372 BB jug I just got. The exhaust port looks a little flat ? :msp_scared: LOL


----------



## TK (Feb 25, 2013)

I sell OEM Husqvarna top end kits, a healthy expensive alternative to AM kits with no questions on quality...... otstir: 


Just adding my humor, carry on folks don't mind me  Progress is the necessity to success :msp_wink:


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 25, 2013)

TK said:


> I sell OEM Husqvarna top end kits, a healthy expensive alternative to AM kits with no questions on quality...... otstir:
> 
> 
> Just adding my humor, carry on folks don't mind me  Progress is the necessity to success :msp_wink:



Best way to go , but they cost as much as most used saws ! LOL Unless its a big saw . So here we are . LOL


----------



## Naked Arborist (Feb 27, 2013)

Just picked up a pair of 6401's and one needs a handlebar. Looks like it got run over buy a truck  Hope to get them pulled apart tomorrow night. It's been tough to keep up with work, busy busy up in a tree most days weather permitting. Just posting all the pics and those other interesting reading swap meet treads lol. Anyway, I think they both could use a BB top end. One turns over super weak compression and the other is yet unknown. The recoil will not grab :msp_ohmy: Team blue needs help. I'll do pics of the tear downs this time so you guys have something to laugh at. You will love the "see-threw" bar on one of them.

Hope the plug and play goes my way again. If so then they get the grind and other good things :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 27, 2013)

So what seems to be the conclusion here? Are the others ok?. just the 066 kit that is bad?


----------



## excess650 (Feb 27, 2013)

Naked Arborist said:


> Just picked up a pair of 6401's and one needs a handlebar. Looks like it got run over buy a truck  Jonsered you say? Hope to get them pulled apart tomorrow night. One turns over super weak compression and the other is yet unknown. The recoil will not grab :msp_ohmy: Team blue needs help. I'll do pics of the tear downs this time so you guys have something to laugh at. With any luck you'll have at least one runner from the pair.
> 
> Hope the plug and play goes my way again. If so then they get the grind and other good things :hmm3grin2orange:



I'll be looking for the thread.


----------



## excess650 (Feb 27, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> So what seems to be the conclusion here? Are the others ok?. just the 066 kit that is bad?



Maybe just THAT particular 066 kit had an issue, but the roof shape of Tbones 372xp top end also had a questionable exhaust port roof. I've had a WP 066/660BB kit on my milling saw since 2008, with the grooved rings no less, and its been fine. Obviously they aren't all going to fail, and likely its just a small percentage that will. Observing the port shapes prior to assembling, and reshaping if necessary would be a good idea. The saw modders have made it apparent that changing port timing would be desireable.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 27, 2013)

excess650 said:


> Maybe just THAT particular 066 kit had an issue, but the roof shape of Tbones 372xp top end also had a questionable exhaust port roof.



Flat exhaust port roofs have been an ongoing problem with many AM cylinders for years. A lot of you guys are looking more closely at these kits for the first time. This is the same feedback I was giving several years ago. Maybe something will happen now with the increased visibility. As a rule, I generally don't raise exhaust ports. That's the only solution to fixing a flat roof. This is the single most important reason I've sworn off them in recent years. If you guys stay on them, hopefully these kits will someday be consistent and reliable. Keep at it


----------



## Naked Arborist (Feb 27, 2013)

excess650 said:


> I'll be looking for the thread.



If the cranks are both good make no mistake they are both going back together. I always wanted to pit a stock Makita 6400 series up against a stock aftermarket BB kit. I'll do a bone stock 6400 up and see if it can keep up with the off the shelf AM with no mods at all on them. Then do up a 6400 cylinder. I'd like to take progressive steps on both setups. Do some vids same bar and chain. Doing a muf mod and then later go back into the cylinders. I'll take them both to a job or two and the firewood pile. They will get pounded on a bit before leaving my stable to make damn sure they are right as rain. Who knows maybe they never leave and take up a new spot in the fleet.

You listening Randy? PM me. Time to see what you have to plug and play on these Mik's.


----------



## watsonr (Feb 27, 2013)

Naked Arborist said:


> If the cranks are both good make no mistake they are both going back together. I always wanted to pit a stock Makita 6400 series up against a stock aftermarket BB kit. I'll do a bone stock 6400 up and see if it can keep up with the off the shelf AM with no mods at all on them. Then do up a 6400 cylinder. I'd like to take progressive steps on both setups. Do some vids same bar and chain. Doing a muf mod and then later go back into the cylinders. I'll take them both to a job or two and the firewood pile. They will get pounded on a bit before leaving my stable to make damn sure they are right as rain. Who knows maybe they never leave and take up a new spot in the fleet.
> 
> You listening Randy? PM me. Time to see what you have to plug and play on these Mik's.



I'm listening and have a 6400 kit to fit. I'm about to go to work and will send a PM this evening with the details.


----------



## tbone75 (Feb 27, 2013)

Naked Arborist said:


> If the cranks are both good make no mistake they are both going back together. I always wanted to pit a stock Makita 6400 series up against a stock aftermarket BB kit. I'll do a bone stock 6400 up and see if it can keep up with the off the shelf AM with no mods at all on them. Then do up a 6400 cylinder. I'd like to take progressive steps on both setups. Do some vids same bar and chain. Doing a muf mod and then later go back into the cylinders. I'll take them both to a job or two and the firewood pile. They will get pounded on a bit before leaving my stable to make damn sure they are right as rain. Who knows maybe they never leave and take up a new spot in the fleet.
> 
> You listening Randy? PM me. Time to see what you have to plug and play on these Mik's.



I have a BB kit on my 6401 I did last year,but I did widen the ports and open the muff up. I have hardly ran it yet ! LOL Had other problem with it ,new carb and flywheel later,it runs very nice ! Just need to get it out to run it more.
I can't remember what brand the kit is ?


----------



## whitedogone (May 22, 2014)

So, what's the word on how this kit is holding up at the mill Wiggs?


----------



## watsonr (May 22, 2014)

The kit was removed and a Meteor kit went to the mill. Rings in this one didn't last, the bevels were not very good.... as a plug and play kit, with a little work, it will work fine. 

For the 066/660 use the Mako kit.


----------



## frogdaddy (May 22, 2014)

Men, I just had my first run in with AM parts. I was installing a AM ring on a AM piston and the damn thing just broke right in two. I didn't even get to put enough pressure on it to start it over the piston before it crumbled not snap crumbled! Now am going to have to go into the profits to get the saw finished for the client.


----------



## frogdaddy (May 22, 2014)

I just got __crewed and the rest of the kit is crap also!


----------



## Naked Arborist (May 25, 2014)

I have had no trouble with many many Hyway standard bore kits or some other good ones. I almost always just have to go over the port bevels with a hard roll, anal I guess. Just use Caber or equivalent rings. OEM comes to mind...
Some day you guys will learn that, maybe. Please help me out here builders. Yell if you have to.


Oh, btw: SOAP AND WATER WORK WOOOOOONDERS...


----------



## watsonr (May 25, 2014)

frogdaddy said:


> I just got __crewed and the rest of the kit is crap also!


And what kit were you using?


----------



## mdavlee (May 26, 2014)

I've had $30 stihl rings do that. Talk about crying over a broke ring.


----------



## srcarr52 (May 26, 2014)

I ported what I think was a 660 Hyway BB kit for Nathan (nstueve), It went to a tree service guy who is still running it pretty hard. So once you fix the port bevels they hold up just fine.


----------



## chadihman (May 26, 2014)

The hyway kits are right up there with meteor in my experience with them.


----------



## nstueve (May 26, 2014)

srcarr52 said:


> I ported what I think was a 660 Hyway BB kit for Nathan (nstueve), It went to a tree service guy who is still running it pretty hard. So once you fix the port bevels they hold up just fine.



Yea both the guys using that hyway 066 bbk are heavy handed. Not the worst and not the best for abusive users. Gets lots of hours and still running hard. Shaun also forgot to mention the big intake timing but doesn't seem to affect power. Ours had some light grinding by Shaun but no lathe work.


----------



## frogdaddy (Jun 1, 2014)

watsonr said:


> And what kit were you using?


It came from that has barn in the title and the color red.


----------



## watsonr (Jun 1, 2014)

Then is wasn't a Hyway... there are only two guys in the US that get them... one of them being me.

That was probably a Forester kit. My dealer uses them for mower parts and every time I'm in there he is cussing them. Don't know why he's so slow to realize, they are pretty much hit and miss and mostly miss.

Some dealers will give a warranty, you need to find a parts supplier that warranties his parts.... period! They have been tested and he stands behind them, won't sell junk for the most part is what that really means. Even the good branded ones can make a bad kit.


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## frogdaddy (Jun 1, 2014)

I don't doubt it.  I have got plenty of projects left in the garage that need p/c so you might here from me.


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## frogdaddy (Jun 1, 2014)

But right now I am looking for a 029/290 to turn into a larger bore (039 topend) firewood monster.


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## watsonr (Jun 2, 2014)

As in your looking for a saw? And a kit? or both?


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## frogdaddy (Jun 6, 2014)

watsonr said:


> As in your looking for a saw? And a kit? or both?


BOTH but i can see where the kit is going to come from. got a 024, 028, 031 AV and a couple of husky that need top end parts so you be hearing from me soon.


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## kenneth davidson (Dec 28, 2014)

stihlbro said:


> I say you got a well used saw, it should be a perfect candidate for the replacement cylinder. It's almost a ideal situation for a true test, in other words, well used.....kinda weak......time for a freshen up. The cost verses going Oem or aftermarket.
> 
> I say bolt the cylinder up as is.
> 
> ...


Hey, all that carbon build up equals higher compression numbers!


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## MG porting (Feb 27, 2018)

Hi there I know this is a old thread but I would like to get some advice on using a Hyway cylinder and a meteor piston combo kit on a ms660 ?? Has anyone tried that before thank you for your replys in advance.


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