# Tree of Heaven for firewood



## David Wayne (Sep 15, 2011)

AKA ailanthus altissima What does this compare to, is it worth cutting for firewood 

Thanks David


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## ponyexpress976 (Sep 15, 2011)

It's shoulder season wood at best...goes up like a fart in a stiff wind. Good for getting the fire going really quick. If the price is right (free, with property owner helping you load) and its close to home, grab it. If an oak/hickory/locust is available 30 miles away get that first. It can smell like burning turds.


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 16, 2011)

I use it in the brush piles, I'd rather burn particleboard in my OWB than heavenwood IMO..


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## tomtrees58 (Sep 16, 2011)

that is junk we chip it and dump the bigstuf


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## David Wayne (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks guys, my BIL was cutting one that had fell we just hauled it to the curb


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## John Clark (Nov 13, 2011)

*I must take issue with much of what has been said about Ailanthus*

Ever notice how young walnut has white wood in the small to medium branches? And the white wood is worthless to burn? Well, that is ailanthus. If you are out there trying to burn small ailanthus, then you aren't going to get your "money'sworth" out of it. If, on the other hand, you have a big 4 foot diameter monster, that blows down one windy day, you are in luck. The, shall we say, heartwood on these things burns very well, puts out a lot of heat and does NOT stink. The trees themselves (leaves etc.) DO stink, but the mature wood does not. It is heavy, splits easy, dries easy, and does not rot if kept dry.

Species Higher Heating Value
(btu/lb.)
Ailanthus altissima 8,171 - 8,452
White Ash 8,246 - 8,920
Sugar Maple 8,190
Red Oak 8,037 - 8,690
Hickory 8,039 - 8,670
White Oak 8,169 - 8,810
Beech 8,151 - 8,760
Hemlock 8,885

This table is from: www.dof.virginia.gov/.../pub_Ailanthus-Control-and-Utilization.pdf

I would compare it favorably (as firewood) with White Ash. All this anecdotal talk about it being like burning paper must be based on burning the light weight branches, because the large trunk wood is quite useful as firewood.


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## lone wolf (Nov 13, 2011)

John Clark said:


> Ever notice how young walnut has white wood in the small to medium branches? And the white wood is worthless to burn? Well, that is ailanthus. If you are out there trying to burn small ailanthus, then you aren't going to get your "money'sworth" out of it. If, on the other hand, you have a big 4 foot diameter monster, that blows down one windy day, you are in luck. The, shall we say, heartwood on these things burns very well, puts out a lot of heat and does NOT stink. The trees themselves (leaves etc.) DO stink, but the mature wood does not. It is heavy, splits easy, dries easy, and does not rot if kept dry.
> 
> Species Higher Heating Value
> (btu/lb.)
> ...



sounds like you have been around a while .


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## Toxic2 (Nov 13, 2011)

Hell of a first post! Very useful info.. 

we dont have that type of tree around my area but i dont get too picky about what i burn now..I use too but as long as i have room for it i will throw it in a pile and either use it for heating my shop, house, or outdoor bonfire pit to roast marshmallows...

I say if it is free and available to turn to heat burn it..I have people drop wood off at my place all the time and i never refuse it..but that doesnt mean it always make it to my house wood pile


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## steved (Feb 6, 2013)

I found this post looking for some information on burning Tree of Heaven...so forgive the old post resurrection.

Since this post is a couple years old, what's the current thought on Tree of Heaven for firewood? A local guy is giving me trailer loads of it...I have already hauled two cord (full cords, not face cords), and he called me with another two loads ready (each trailer load is a full cord, plus). He is less than 10 minutes from me, access is fairly easy, its already cut to length (more/less), and he helps load it...he doesn't want it since he has access to walnut and oak, for obvious reasons. I have no idea how much he has, but he made the comment about several acres...and this is bigger stuff, nothing under 6 inches in diameter, with some approaching 24 inches.

This is for supplemental heat from a RSF Opal wood stove, and we will be mixing with pine (also free) and hardwood (at this point, 50% ToH, 25% pine, 25% hardwood). We burn daily, and continuous when possible, during the heating season. 

Thoughts? Any concerns burning it?


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## Jredsjeep (Feb 6, 2013)

i would be interested to see how it works, i cut up and split probably half a cords worth of it. mine was free with easy access since it was in my flat mowed back yard LOL. its stacked out back now, i figure it could be used in the fire pit if nothing else.

i stacked it off the ground in the sun area so we will see this year if it was worth any of my effort. unfortunatly i have another small grove of these trees to take care of also.


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## old_soul (Feb 6, 2013)

are my eyes working correctly today? Somebody is comparing tree of heaven wood to white ash? This cant be a serious post

if you've ever tried to burn some punky red maple wood, thats how tree of heaven burns.

just smolders away, no coals, not much heat

i don't like to waste any wood either but tree of heaven is a junk wood, chip it up!


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## autoimage (Feb 6, 2013)

even chinese trees are cheap and dont work as they should


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## turnkey4099 (Feb 6, 2013)

Originally Posted by John Clark 
Ever notice how young walnut has white wood in the small to medium branches? And the white wood is worthless to burn? Well, that is ailanthus. If you are out there trying to burn small ailanthus, then you aren't going to get your "money'sworth" out of it. If, on the other hand, you have a big 4 foot diameter monster, that blows down one windy day, you are in luck. The, shall we say, heartwood on these things burns very well, puts out a lot of heat and does NOT stink. The trees themselves (leaves etc.) DO stink, but the mature wood does not. It is heavy, splits easy, dries easy, and does not rot if kept dry.

Species Higher Heating Value
(btu/lb.)
Ailanthus altissima 8,171 - 8,452
White Ash 8,246 - 8,920
Sugar Maple 8,190
Red Oak 8,037 - 8,690
Hickory 8,039 - 8,670
White Oak 8,169 - 8,810
Beech 8,151 - 8,760
Hemlock 8,885

This table is from: http://www.dof.virginia.gov/.../pub_...tilization.pdf

I would compare it favorably (as firewood) with White Ash. All this anecdotal talk about it being like burning paper must be based on burning the light weight branches, because the large trunk wood is quite useful as firewood.



lone wolf said:


> sounds like you have been around a while .



And gives accurate, useable information instead of repeting old wives tales.

Harry K


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## Streblerm (Feb 6, 2013)

John Clark said:


> Ever notice how young walnut has white wood in the small to medium branches? And the white wood is worthless to burn? Well, that is ailanthus. If you are out there trying to burn small ailanthus, then you aren't going to get your "money'sworth" out of it. If, on the other hand, you have a big 4 foot diameter monster, that blows down one windy day, you are in luck. The, shall we say, heartwood on these things burns very well, puts out a lot of heat and does NOT stink. The trees themselves (leaves etc.) DO stink, but the mature wood does not. It is heavy, splits easy, dries easy, and does not rot if kept dry.
> 
> Species Higher Heating Value
> (btu/lb.)
> ...




JC missed something important in that chart. It is comparing wood btus per pound, not by volume. All wood has pretty much the same Btus per pound. The problem with TOH other than that it stinks when you burn it (and it does) is that it will take 3 times as many pieces to equal that pound as it will with something like ash, hickory, or oak. 

I have burned TOH before and I will probably burn it again but there is no way it compares to ash or other hardwoods in BTUs per cord. It is light when green and even lighter when dry. I have never seen one 4' DBH as the wood is weak and usually the tree fails long before they get that big. 

I would much rather burn pine. But I would take it if it was free and easy to get.


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## stihly dan (Feb 6, 2013)

TOH tends to be a city tree imported and planted. Most that I have seen have been huge. Not many, if any in the woods here.


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## GeeVee (Feb 6, 2013)

turnkey4099 said:


> Originally Posted by John Clark
> Ever notice how young walnut has white wood in the small to medium branches? And the white wood is worthless to burn? Well, that is ailanthus. If you are out there trying to burn small ailanthus, then you aren't going to get your "money'sworth" out of it. If, on the other hand, you have a big 4 foot diameter monster, that blows down one windy day, you are in luck. The, shall we say, heartwood on these things burns very well, puts out a lot of heat and does NOT stink. The trees themselves (leaves etc.) DO stink, but the mature wood does not. It is heavy, splits easy, dries easy, and does not rot if kept dry.
> 
> Species Higher Heating Value
> ...



And hasn't been seen since....


I spent a bunch of time in the Green Industry, and message boards perpetuated myths and wives tales as bad as any. 

One of my signature lines went something like....

Just because a plant or turf works good for you in your temperate zone, don't be a know it all when you have a limited field of vision.

Same with wood, and burning. You have to allow for temperate climate, factor ones ability and capability, skills and resources, desire and need, and make allowance for all kinds of socio-cultural and economic variables. 

In other words- 

Walk a mile. A thousand dollars might seem like a lot of money to one, and be pocket change next to the lint, to the next.


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## steved (Feb 6, 2013)

Streblerm said:


> It is light when green and even lighter when dry. I have never seen one 4' DBH as the wood is weak and usually the tree fails long before they get that big.
> 
> I would much rather burn pine. But I would take it if it was free and easy to get.




This stuff green is heavier than any oak I have dealt with? And like I said, some of this is 24"D. 

I have not seen this standing, only cut up. The owner originally told me it was Sumac, but it does not match any description for Sumac. It has every characteristic of ToH. I'll get some pictures tomorrow.


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## woodchuck357 (Feb 7, 2013)

*Back in the 'ole days*

some folks planted groves of tree of heaven with the idea of a fast growing firewood supply.


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## Impalervlad (Feb 7, 2013)

A friend offered me four cords of TOH split and stacked at my house. I took it and burned it but, the four cords went up in smoke like two cords. I was constantly feeding the stove and it wouldn't sustain an overnight burn. Some of the wood got wet and got punky real quick.
So, like previously stated, if it's free, take it and burn it. But I wouldn't pay for it and I wouldn't go out of my way to get it unless I was desperate.


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## steved (Feb 7, 2013)

Again, not my first choice for firewood; but free is good...so does it really matter if I burn twice as much? If the other place comes through, I have a big source of free Christmas trees (on steroids), which I believe are mostly white pine.

Here are pictures of what I have...the big stuff is buried in the pile. I would say most of it averages 8-12 inches.

One trailer load:







Closeups:












Notice how its gotten moldy? That's even sitting out in the cold air.


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## Impalervlad (Feb 7, 2013)

That mold you see is pretty characteristic for TOH. Sometimes it turns all sorts of shades of red. I never looked into it but, I imagine there is something in the wood that attracts and nourishes that particular mold. I've never seen it on other types of wood.
That stuff should split fairly straight and easy but, you'll be doing the same amount of work splitting it as you would a better wood like oak or ash but only getting half the value. Still, it is free and splitting easy splitting wood can have its own rewards in watching the splits come off nice and easy. Split it, use it and learn from this experience whether you're happy with it or you would never do it again. Your own experience is worth tons more than someone else's opinion on an internet forum.


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## Uncle John (Feb 7, 2013)

I think it's what we used to call Stink Tree.
But I've not burned it.
How does it smell burning?


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## steved (Feb 7, 2013)

Our stove is airtight, so I don't really know what it smells like burning...I have only really test burnt a couple small pieces we left dry by the wood stove. When green, the wood definitely has a strong green wood odor about it. The odor seems to go away with the drying process.

I have nothing really invested in it...other than a little gas running after it and a little gas splitting it. We are leaving it rather large, so if it burns fast it should last a little longer.


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## BrokenToys (Feb 7, 2013)

_alas, we meet again stinkwood thread..._

It's an Invasive Species - Stink Wood.:msp_thumbdn: At least burning it it rids this continent of it's miserable existance.


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## Dale (Feb 8, 2013)

"It's an Invasive Species - Stink Wood. At least burning it it rids this continent of it's miserable existance. "

Wholeheartedly agree. That wood isn't worth the bend in the back to pick it up. If ANYBODY in SW PA wants to come to my farm and harvest that crap, have at it. AND I'M SERIOUS. It grows/takes over like a weed.... and I have millions upon millions of board feet of that sh.....


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## Arbonaut (Feb 8, 2013)

Streblerm said:


> JC missed something important in that chart. It is comparing wood btus per pound, not by volume. All wood has pretty much the same Btus per pound. The problem with TOH other than that it stinks when you burn it (and it does) is that it will take 3 times as many pieces to equal that pound as it will with something like ash, hickory, or oak.
> 
> I have burned TOH before and I will probably burn it again but there is no way it compares to ash or other hardwoods in BTUs per cord. It is light when green and even lighter when dry. I have never seen one 4' DBH as the wood is weak and usually the tree fails long before they get that big.
> 
> I would much rather burn pine. But I would take it if it was free and easy to get.



*DING* with solid fuel burning there is like anything else: theory and practice. We are where the rubber meets the road. If you gonna burn ailanthus, you might as well burn rubber.


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## avason (Feb 8, 2013)

John Clark said:


> Ever notice how young walnut has white wood in the small to medium branches? And the white wood is worthless to burn? Well, that is ailanthus. If you are out there trying to burn small ailanthus, then you aren't going to get your "money'sworth" out of it. If, on the other hand, you have a big 4 foot diameter monster, that blows down one windy day, you are in luck. The, shall we say, heartwood on these things burns very well, puts out a lot of heat and does NOT stink. The trees themselves (leaves etc.) DO stink, but the mature wood does not. It is heavy, splits easy, dries easy, and does not rot if kept dry.
> 
> Species Higher Heating Value
> (btu/lb.)
> ...



I'm impressed with the btu value of hemlock. I just had a guy drop off tow huge loads the other day and I thought it was junk. I've been burning it and it seems to burn nicely and leaves a decent amount of coal.


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## avason (Feb 8, 2013)

If that was dropped off at your house, I wouldn't have a problem burning that at all. You just saved loading and unloading all that wood not to mention the time saving cutting it. It looks nice and straight and doesn't seem like it will be a problem splitting. Nice score!


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## Streblerm (Feb 8, 2013)

avason said:


> I'm impressed with the btu value of hemlock. I just had a guy drop off tow huge loads the other day and I thought it was junk. I've been burning it and it seems to burn nicely and leaves a decent amount of coal.



That chart is almost meaningless other than illustrating that all wood has approximately 8K BTUs/lb. It doesn't address density which would be BTUs/cord. Kind of like: which weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?

I agree that hemlock is decent firewood. If I had my choice I would still burn hardwood.


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## tbow388 (Feb 8, 2013)

*I would*

I wouldnt pass it up.

I would burn the fire out of it. Literally!!


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## old_soul (Feb 8, 2013)

Dale said:


> "It's an Invasive Species - Stink Wood. At least burning it it rids this continent of it's miserable existance. "
> 
> Wholeheartedly agree. That wood isn't worth the bend in the back to pick it up. If ANYBODY in SW PA wants to come to my farm and harvest that crap, have at it. AND I'M SERIOUS. It grows/takes over like a weed.... and I have millions upon millions of board feet of that sh.....



exactly right Dale

i can't believe somebody took the time to cut it all up like in that picture. even all the small pieces.

around here it grows along roads, highway ramps, etc. Always mowing, cutting, spraying it. the bad thing is it grows so fast, so dense that it chokes out all the better, slower growing trees nearby.


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## Arbonaut (Feb 8, 2013)

tomtrees58 said:


> that is junk we chip it and dump the bigstuf



This was settled in 2011. By the 4th post. This right here is all you need to know.


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## Toddppm (Feb 8, 2013)

steved said:


> The owner originally told me it was Sumac, but it does not match any description for Sumac. It has every characteristic of ToH. I'll get some pictures tomorrow.



He probably meant Chinese Sumac, it's just another common name for it. I've never heard that name for it except on here but it does resemble sumac a little and it's mentioned here as Chinese Sumac. PCA Alien Plant Working Group - Tree-of-Heaven (Ailanthus altissima)
We just call them weed trees here:msp_tongue:


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## RUSHNBOBO (Feb 8, 2013)

View attachment 278120
* BTU's Per Cord (millions) it's c r a p
*


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## steved (Feb 14, 2013)

Well, he just gave me another cord of it, has another cord almost ready. I asked him if he thought it might be TOH, and he said probably; "its just another type of sumac". He told me it burns a lot like poplar, and (get ready for this) if I liked it; the neighbor has at least 100 trees of it, no less than 24 inches in diameter and they are going to start cutting it soon. Some of this load is pushing better than three feet in diameter. Right now, I'm going to say no to any more of it, especially since I can't see how it actually does burn when seasoned. 

I'm going to concentrate my efforts on the local pine (free) and hauling from my parents and state forest (hardwoods). I figured out that I will need around four cords per year, and again; while its a primary source of heat when we're burning its not the only source of heat for the house (options are electric, propane, and wood).


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## autoimage (Feb 14, 2013)

i see you are in reading thats fairly close to me. just keep ur eyes open on craigslist and you will find good free wood. i can get 4 cords in a month if im diligent and no pine or poplar, although i just took a cord of sweet gum already split and only 8 miles away


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## PA. Woodsman (Feb 15, 2013)

autoimage said:


> i see you are in reading thats fairly close to me. just keep ur eyes open on craigslist and you will find good free wood. i can get 4 cords in a month if im diligent and no pine or poplar, although i just took a cord of sweet gum already split and only 8 miles away



Absolutely correct! Our area has so much good hardwood that you don't need that other junk! Keep your eyes open for construction sites, blow downs, anywhere where you see good hardwood trees down and ask whoever owns the property if you can take it for firewood; more times than not the answer will be "yes"! :msp_w00t:  :jester:


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## woodchuck357 (Feb 15, 2013)

*It really would be nice if the stuff comming out of China*

was uniformly crap, but the real problem is no matter how many low jabs are indiscriminately delivered, most of the Chinese tools do work as advertised. As an example, a friend brought an almost new Chinese ax for me to put a new handle to. After replacing the handle, I sharpened it and chopped up some limbs. That ax is made of top notch steel and tempered as well as any I have used. Not as hard as my KnotKlipper, but I guess it is to hard anyway. Don't buy stuff from Wal-Mart or Harbor Freight, and check out where stuff that has an American brand name on it is actually made



autoimage said:


> even chinese trees are cheap and dont work as they should


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## steved (Apr 1, 2013)

Just as an update...I have had some of this ToH that I dragged home and split drying under cover . This was a piece of the larger stuff I retrieved. Keep in mind, some of the trees I brought home were almost 30 inches across...and that's what I tried burning. Its still a little green as evident from the minor amount of moisture whisping out initially, but it wasn't all that wet (considering it was cut down in January?)...probably another month or so and it would probably be good to burn on its own. It burnt hot and burnt complete; no chunks left over, no popping, no snapping, nothing that didn't burn up. The one test chunk I tried took several hours to completely burn to coals, it was probably five to six inches in diameter. It lasted the same amount of time as the piece of two year seasoned oak that was sharing the box...

I would definitely not pass up a large tree if it was convenient to get. It does stink, the butt wood doesn't split nice, but it seems to burn alright...it reminded me a lot of the beech I have been burning (similar burn rate, similar difficulty splitting, etc.). I'll be curious to get a couple of the smaller limb wood into the box...its a lot lighter than the trunk wood, and I fully expect it will burn like poplar. 

Compared to the sopping wet pine I have, this stuff didn't burn all that bad. The pine has been down just as long, and the splitter will squeeze ounces of water out of it when splitting.


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## steved (Jan 7, 2015)

After nearly two year and probably four cords later, its not all that bad. It burns like pine...

The only thing I will warn about is that it must have a resin like pine, it burns HOT and will flare on a hot fire like pine.


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## svk (Jan 7, 2015)

It's always fun to read through these resurrected threads and see who posted along the way. Some you remember, some you don't.


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## steved (Jan 10, 2015)

Yeah, a lot of these guys had me discouraged that I even brought it home. I have no regrets...if I would happen on it again, I would not hesitate to bring it home.

While its not oak or locust, its every bit as good for firewood as poplar/pine, and maybe better. The main thing to remember is season it well, keep the pieces on the larger size (probably six inches or so), and remember it flares like a resin-filled pine. And forget anything under about four inch (limbs and such)...you want the trunkwood.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk


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## David Wayne (Jan 10, 2015)

Remember me?


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## MarylandGuy (Jan 11, 2015)

steved said:


> Yeah, a lot of these guys had me discouraged that I even brought it home. I have no regrets...if I would happen on it again, I would not hesitate to bring it home.


 
Yup, I am the same way with Tulip Poplar. Plenty of it around me, but most say to leave it laying to rot in the woods. 

I actually love the stuff, especially around shoulder season. Sure it will burn out before morning, but I have oak to fill that time slot. Poplar burns very hot.


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## bert the turtle (Jan 12, 2015)

It kept me warm for several months last year.


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## freakflag (Mar 19, 2016)

I live in Brooklyn NY and have been supplementing my home heat with a Napoleon 1400 wood stove for eight years now. I always have some Ailanthus in my rack. I have to burn what is available and believe me that stuff is available. It does indeed burn a lot like pine and there is nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned. This year I had some pine I cut small and used for resurrecting the fire when necessary and that stuff is great. I find with the Ailanthus it is a good move to remove the ugly bark when you are splitting it and it tends to get a lot less moldy on the rack and it dries out much better that way for sure. I have six face cords that I use and I have no problem dedicating at least one face cord of Ailanthus if I have to. It is perfect for shoulder season and in a place like Brooklyn we have a longer shoulder season than areas north and west of here. It does not stink in wood stove. Perhaps in a conventional fireplace but not in a wood stove. It is invasive fore sure. We call it Ghetto Palm. It is the tree Betty Smith was referring to in the novel A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. I am just amazed at how many Old Wives Tales I read on the internet. Experience is the only thing that counts.


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## freakflag (Mar 19, 2016)

By the way that is NOT Ailanthus shown in the picture. That is a photo of a rather difficult and disagreeable piece of Norway Maple which is also invasive and plentiful in Brooklyn. It is one of the species of tree the City of NY planted many years ago but no longer does. They are the most plentiful trees in this area and they make great firewood.


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## tomtrees58 (Mar 19, 2016)

the pic of wood is ash not maple


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## lone wolf (Mar 19, 2016)

tomtrees58 said:


> the pic of wood is ash not maple


It looks like you are right yes I was thinking that also.


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## freakflag (Mar 19, 2016)

tomtrees58 said:


> the pic of wood is ash not maple


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## freakflag (Mar 19, 2016)

Yes. You are right. That particular piece was from my friend's pile not my own now that I think about it.


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