# Stump Removal Machine



## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2014)

Ok gang, looking at a job tommorrow LO wants stumps pulled, not something I'm normally into...

First off my equipment thus far is just a skidder and a backhoe. 

I can rent or maybe barrow or hire out an excavator, (rent might be cheap in the homeboy hook up kind of way.) Probably a 120 sized machine. If'n there is enough timber I could maybe swing purchasing an older used excavator, something I'm not opposed to anyway.

No Idea as to what kind of timber I'm going to be looking at, most likely hemlock and D fir, with some ceder thrown in for good luck. Won't be looking at it until tomorrow afternoon, I can only make an educated guess as to it being flat and go off the timber I've cut in the area.

Parcell is 5 acres

What I would like to know is:

First how much time should I allow for each acre/stump (ass u me ing I'm not horrible at running an excavator I've got some ass time but not much)

Second is this even worth attempting Probably base everything off a timber split on percentages, but if this land clearing thing is a total money pit I don't want to get involved

Third would a Dozer be a better option? Maybe a D6-8 with a big stump splitter and or a root rake. (this I can also purchase for a reasonable price... maybe... there was a D9 for like 2k not long ago runner too...)


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## HuskStihl (Jul 29, 2014)

You tend to leave very high stumps, so a dozer would prolly be perfect


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## Joe46 (Jul 29, 2014)

D6-8 with a stump splitter could maybe a good investment for you, Course if you could find one with an arch and splitter.................! I cat logged off and on in your country for 3 years with a buddy that had an old Johnsonbar TD20. We flew 4-6 chokers off the back of it. Then there's the cost of moving it! We also entertained the idea of some land clearing projects. D 9's were coming off the pipeline cheap even back then.


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## Gologit (Jul 29, 2014)

Joe46 said:


> D6-8 with a stump splitter could maybe a good investment for you, Course if you could find one with an arch and splitter.................! I cat logged off and on in your country for 3 years with a buddy that had an old Johnsonbar TD20. We flew 4-6 chokers off the back of it. Then there's the cost of moving it! We also entertained the idea of some land clearing projects. D 9's were coming off the pipeline cheap even back then.




A Cat would be a good choice...I'd rather be on a Cat than any other piece of machinery... but would there be enough work for it when it wasn't on stumps?

A shovel is a pretty versatile machine and there are a lot of different uses for it. Get some quick-change buckets, grapples, dangle head, maybe hook up some extra drums for yarding...lots of possibilities.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> You tend to leave very high stumps, so a dozer would prolly be perfect



Sticks and stones may break my bones... but words last forever


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## HuskStihl (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm sorry Northman. It wasn't a fair statement, as knee high on you is chest high on me


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## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2014)

Its ok, I like me a nipple high stump, better to survey the damage from! Besides I only look tall, I reality I'm only 5'1", its the huge KISS dragon platform calks that make me look taller.


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## 2dogs (Jul 29, 2014)

I would try to talk the LO into low stumps. Pulling stumps usually turns into digging, cutting roots and then pulling with a big dozer.


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## bigbadbob (Jul 30, 2014)

Once they have logged here they bring in some medium sized excavators and pull all the stumps and flip them on top of the ground, not sure why but its what they do, looks pretty ugly to.
I havent taken too much notice whats on the business end of the boom, at least a thumb .
But hey I am not a logger!!!

BBB


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## northmanlogging (Jul 30, 2014)

2dogs said:


> I would try to talk the LO into low stumps. Pulling stumps usually turns into digging, cutting roots and then pulling with a big dozer.



Plan A is to talk em into that... But some folks can be stubborn, and its their land, they get to make the decisions.

I figure 3-5 days per acre at 800 a week rent and 90 gallons a day, or 2500 ish per acre in costs alone, not to mention what I would need to get paid. But this is really just going off long past experience, and youtube, and checking prices from local rental places.


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 30, 2014)

Some of the fir and maple stumps I have taken out were pretty deep rooted, took me a while with a cat to get them out


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## slowp (Jul 30, 2014)

bigbadbob said:


> View attachment 361476
> 
> 
> View attachment 361477
> ...


 

That may be an attempt to stop root rot from infecting other nearby trees.


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## 2dogs (Jul 30, 2014)

I didn't think about root rot. That is a reason to pull the stumps and kill them with fire. It also means cleaning the machines before they leave the site. The price just went up. All this only slows root rot, phythoptra (sp), it is in the soil.


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## madhatte (Jul 30, 2014)

Root rot control is my guess as well. It's an expensive and largely ineffective effort, though. We... have _abandoned_ that practice here.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 30, 2014)

Being a yuppie, I'm always amazed at the strength of these machines. Had some dirtwork done on my property several years back. They had a big excavator (it was yellow). There was a pretty big oak tree in the middle of where we were putting a slab. I figured they would cut it down and pull the stump with the dozer, but the excavator with a grapple busted off the top limbs, then just grabbed the stem and plucked it out like a weed. Nothing new to y'all, but I was literally speechless (which is pretty impressive in and of itself)


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## schmuck.k (Jul 30, 2014)

A 120 size machine is the smallest you would want ive pulled my fair share of stumps with a small machine it takes time it all depends on the ground ( i sit on one almost every work day in the woods on all types of ground) good luck if you need help im not that far away.
Kevin


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## northmanlogging (Jul 30, 2014)

Well... mostly scrubby hemlock, some largish maples, a few decent dougs, and a bunch of barely marketable ceder (although barely marketable is still marketable)

Offered them my usual split with pushing limbs and tops into a pile, and the stump pulling being a seperate deal, hopefully with them hiring someone else to do it, they only want the front 2? acres completely cleared, the rest can stay stumps and brush, just no standing trees...

We'll see if they bite, have several other folks looking at it (most of em don't like working around houses though)


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## imagineero (Aug 4, 2014)

Trying to get them to hire someone else for the stump portion of the job is a great idea, unless you have a particular interest in getting into it in future then you can just write it off as a learning experience. Unless you're able to charge a flat rate for your time (unlikely) you stand a pretty good chance of getting burnt. Buying up extra equipment is always exciting, but without work for it ends up costing more money than it brings in over time. 5 acres is too small to bring in a forest mower unless there's one very local, but too big for a stump grinder. There may be someone local with a dozer who would do it for cheap, they already own the dozer after all. What do they plan on doing with the stumps after?


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## northmanlogging (Aug 4, 2014)

They are ok with burning the piles. Which isn't a big deal in the winter around here, other then "The Puget Sound Clean Air "authority"... bunch of whiny bitches that make you get a permit to burn anything over 3'... luckily the permit is cheap and I'm pretty sure you don't need a fire wagon during winter, just someone watching it.

I use the term authority loosely even though that is their name, they are not ellected, and they don't really have any authority, they just ***** a lot until they get what they want.


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## madhatte (Aug 4, 2014)

PSCAA are jerks. ORCAA (Olympic Region) are way easier to deal with. Our property is split about evenly between the two jurisdictions. Guess who I'd rather deal with?


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## Joe46 (Aug 4, 2014)

Had a beotch of a neighbor several years ago, she complained to them because my chimney was "emitting to much smoke". Received a letter from them and then a visit. Told them unless they had a warrant to get their asses off my property or I'd call the cops and have them arrested for trespassing. I did however thank them for the letter. Told them I used it to start my morning fire.


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## fordf150 (Aug 5, 2014)

locally we have a chipping company that is clearing pipeline right of ways. they have to remove all stumps. this is what they use

 then they follow that with

 . I believe they said 5 acres an hour on most jobs. don't know if you could rent one but when they leave a site it looks good. no stumps or even sticks. its ready to be seeded and have a nice flat smooth field. 
edit: just talked to these guys today. 4-7 acres an hour grinding stumps depending on size and quantity but didn't really have a figure on the mulching side of it.


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## Gologit (Aug 5, 2014)

Stumps? ANFO!


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## HuskStihl (Aug 5, 2014)

Old skidder with a 454 and hand made drum grinding boom. I hire this guy to make my stumps look better


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## northmanlogging (Aug 5, 2014)

ah I remember the days when a guy could waltz into a hardware store pick up a case of 30% 500 feet of det cord, and a shoe box full of caps, and no one even looked at you funny...

For Freyja's sake I looked into getting a permit and license a while back... The BATFE would send 4-5 of the biggests meanest man hating powerfully ugly women over and you would have to supply your own lube...


(actually its not a whole lot different then getting a CPL, just the whole magazine thing is exceedingly expensive...)

ANFO is fairly easy to make, but setting it off is the real *****.

**** Hoover...


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## HuskStihl (Aug 5, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> ah I remember the days when a guy could waltz into a hardware store pick up a case of 30% 500 feet of det cord, and a shoe box full of caps, and no one even looked at you funny..


I seriously cannot imagine someone not looking at you funny if you were ordering a double quarter pounder at mcdonalds, much less detonation supplies. You kinda have the appearance of the worlds largest eco-terrorist/unibomber


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## Gologit (Aug 5, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> For Freyja's sake I looked into getting a permit and license a while back...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Getting an original licence is even harder now since 9-11. Renewals are tougher too. The background checks are extensive and the penalties for non compliance are serious.
The permitting process is about ten times more involved than it used to be and inventory reports, usage reports, and purchase records are gone over with a fine tooth comb.

You're right, ANFO is easy to make but making good ANFO requires precise ratios and good ingredients. Your farm store AN will work but the pros use a special AN prill that's harder, multi faceted, and not as prone to crumbling or making dust.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 5, 2014)

All because some jack wagon doesn't like extra greasy beef and bacon I don't get to launch stumps for profit... thats the real shame, never mind all the tsa stuff, I just wanna make some noise and create some instant craters

So yeah the whole mess was a lot more to deal with then its worth... I could buy a new 200 size excavator for less then building a magazine would cost me, and I don't need a permit for it. That and some pencil jockey isn't going to come over and fine me for misplacing 30 gallons of diesel, Think of that ME PAYING FOR a _*NEW*_ machine... Reagan would be rolling in his grave!!!


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## northmanlogging (Aug 5, 2014)

The thing that really chaps my ass, and I'm trying not to be political here, but because I mentioned blowing **** up The NSA is probably crawling through everyones personal lives right now... for what? A lead on cheap saw parts? OR how bout the best Siswheel technique? Or directions to the secret under ground swedish stump dance training centers...


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## Gologit (Aug 5, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> The thing that really chaps my ass, and I'm trying not to be political here, but because I mentioned blowing **** up The NSA is probably crawling through everyones personal lives right now... for what? A lead on cheap saw parts? OR how bout the best Siswheel technique? Or directions to the secret under ground swedish stump dance training centers...



If you _really_ want to get on their mailing list get yourself a Federal explosives permit and a blasting license. If you forget what you had for lunch on the first Monday in March 3 years ago they'll probably be able to tell you. 
They spend a lot of time regulating honest people who are just trying to make an honest living. And that's as harsh a political statement as you'll get from me on here. In person, well that's another story.


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## Joe46 (Aug 5, 2014)

I'd like to "like" your comment. But for the record I don't know who you are nor have I ever seen you before in my life. That one was for Northmanlogging who ever he may be


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## Gologit (Aug 5, 2014)

Joe46 said:


> I'd like to "like" your comment. But for the record I don't know who you are nor have I ever seen you before in my life. That one was for Northmanlogging who ever he may be




Huh? Who? What?


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## Hans1 (Aug 5, 2014)

Not sure if it applys but if your stumping machine is under sized for the job it is much easier to tip the trees with stumps attached. If the bid on the whole project is enough in comparison to the value of the timber the damage and lower log grade may make the value of the timber small in comparison . When clearing for projects here nothing is saved for timber the trees are dug with hoes and piled leveling done with dozers. Most is burned on site with some type compressor or air tunnel. Land clearing is a different business than logging.


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## olyman (Aug 20, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> They are ok with burning the piles. Which isn't a big deal in the winter around here, other then "The Puget Sound Clean Air "authority"... bunch of whiny bitches that make you get a permit to burn anything over 3'... luckily the permit is cheap and I'm pretty sure you don't need a fire wagon during winter, just someone watching it.
> 
> I use the term authority loosely even though that is their name, they are not ellected, and they don't really have any authority, they just ***** a lot until they get what they want.


 sounds like someone on this forum............


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## Gologit (Aug 20, 2014)

olyman said:


> sounds like someone on this forum............



Hi Oly! Been back to the Political forum lately? No? Darn, that's a shame.

How are those new anti-anxiety meds working out for you?


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## ArtB (Aug 20, 2014)

To make ANY money ya better have a couple of machnes like bigbadbob showed in his post.
The developers near me, to clear only 5 acres, often have 2 or 3 of those machines and have even seen a D10 on site. And the machines are usually there for a few weeks or even a month or more. 
And that is for the stuff that barely exceeds 24 DBH. Developers have to bring in tub grinders inside the urban growth boundary, don't want to upset the liberals whose cats and kids ALL suffer from chronic asthma by burning.

Worst case time wise for clearing, back in '71 had an old D2 and cleared 2 acres to build our house. Took me 2 months, should have bought some dynamite then, as you could get it just by walking into the distributor and asking. 
Anyway, after spending 2 days digging out the 4 ft dia 7' high old growth stump left from 1905 (only had 1 of those thankfully). After that, anything over 10" put a 20 ft ladder on top the FOPS and tied on a 5/8" choker about 25 ft up. Put a block or 2 onto the cable to a deadhead. That little D2 pulled the stump right outa the ground on a 30" DBH fir with a double block.

Quick? Took me 2 MONTHS to clear 2 acres. Full daylight weekends and all daylight left after day job, Late Sept to mid November . So say about 250 hours or over 100 hours per acre !! 

Moral - bigger machine the better.


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## slowp (Aug 20, 2014)

olyman said:


> sounds like someone on this forum............


 
Thank you darling Olymon for bumping this thread back up. I love you and send kisses and hugs your way. Huggie Kissie for you, sugar pie honey bunch.


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Hi Oly! Been back to the Political forum lately? No? Darn, that's a shame.
> 
> How are those new anti-anxiety meds working out for you?


 says the EX heavy handed mod....played favorites.....smelled of south end of northbound mule.....


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

slowp said:


> Thank you darling Olymon for bumping this thread back up. I love you and send kisses and hugs your way. Huggie Kissie for you, sugar pie honey bunch.


 and I see you got your favorite ass man to come to your aid....


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## northmanlogging (Aug 21, 2014)

Ya know its funny, lots of idio... I mean "people" whine about a certain former mod being a jerk... Frankly most of those "people" needed what they got. Mostly from my experience this Mod kept things civil and enjoyable. 

Makes me ask who the real whiner is? Its been like a year or more give it a rest.


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## slowp (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry about the appearance of the troll. Things must be boring on the hate forum.

Now, did you take the stump job? The only thing I've seen other than a shovel used, is a heavy pointy piece of steel hooked onto a big cat. It split the stumps. You've probably seen it too.


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## Gologit (Aug 21, 2014)

olyman said:


> says the EX heavy handed mod....played favorites.....smelled of south end of northbound mule.....



Hi Oly! South end of a north bound mule? I don't think I'm familiar with that smell but it sounds like you are. Can you explain it to us?
Have a nice day, Oly. Keep taking those meds, okay?


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Hi Oly! South end of a north bound mule? I don't think I'm familiar with that smell but it sounds like you are. Can you explain it to us?
> Have a nice day, Oly. Keep taking those meds, okay?


  a high percentage of loggers, had a overly high rated opinion of their intelligence...........


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

slowp said:


> Sorry about the appearance of the troll. Things must be boring on the hate forum.
> 
> Now, did you take the stump job? The only thing I've seen other than a shovel used, is a heavy pointy piece of steel hooked onto a big cat. It split the stumps. You've probably seen it too.


 and you certainly do know about trolls,,,being the queen of them...................


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Hi Oly! Been back to the Political forum lately? No? Darn, that's a shame.
> 
> How are those new anti-anxiety meds working out for you?


 and another.. thanks to dweebs like you,,and your overrated opinion of yourself,,you like to remove those that disagree with you...along with a few others.....


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## Gologit (Aug 21, 2014)

Uh oh, I don't think I'll be getting a Christmas card from Oly this year. Darn.


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## madhatte (Aug 21, 2014)

*mod senses tingling*


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

madhatte said:


> *mod senses tingling*


  people that like to troll on me,,because their "friend" got butthurt...


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## slowp (Aug 21, 2014)

Olymon, you need to learn the definition of trolling. It doesn't mean that a troll is anybody you disagree with. However, you are meeting that definition by your very first post in a thread about stump removal. The thread is NOT about your feelings towards those of us you hate. 

Definition of troll from Wickpedia:
_In __Internet slang__, a *troll* (/ˈ__t__r__oʊ__l__/__, /ˈ__t__r__ɒ__l__/__) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] __extraneous__, or __off-topic__ messages in an online community (such as a __newsgroup__, forum, __chat room__, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an __emotional__ response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]
This sense of the word troll and its associated verb *trolling* are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with __online harassment__. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]_
*Contents*
[hide]


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## Gologit (Aug 21, 2014)

Oly is still upset that there's no more DISLIKE button. Oly doesn't realize it but the only real enemy he has here is himself. Most of us don't take him too seriously.


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## olyman (Aug 21, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Oly is still upset that there's no more DISLIKE button. Oly doesn't realize it but the only real enemy he has here is himself. Most of us don't take him too seriously.


 you are two peas in a pod.....and ill leave it at that...


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## slowp (Aug 21, 2014)

Just leave.


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## Gologit (Aug 21, 2014)

olyman said:


> you are two peas in a pod.....and ill leave it at that...




I consider that a compliment.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 21, 2014)

slowp said:


> Sorry about the appearance of the troll. Things must be boring on the hate forum.
> 
> Now, did you take the stump job? The only thing I've seen other than a shovel used, is a heavy pointy piece of steel hooked onto a big cat. It split the stumps. You've probably seen it too.



I bid it my usual 50/50 for the timber and told em its probably a better idea to pay someone to pull the stumps, but if I do it they would probably end up breaking even. Had nice words shook hands, and never heard from them again...


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## Gologit (Aug 21, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> I bid it my usual 50/50 for the timber and told em its probably a better idea to pay someone to pull the stumps, but if I do it they would probably end up breaking even. Had nice words shook hands, and never heard from them again...



Some times breaking even is the best you can hope for. Like when things go wrong and all those little dollar-grabbing gremlins come slithering out of the woodwork.
My bean counters used to call breaking even "having a static cash flow". They liked fancy terms like that.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 22, 2014)

Static makes it hard to keep moving though...

Break even for me is not getting paid, just covering expenses... which lately is all I've really been doing, which is not entirely true and is entirely my fault, but most of my equipment is paid for or will be by the end of the year. Last few months have been a learning experience in budgeting and bidding. One bad bid and I pretty much ate the next 2 months... Getting around the corner now though. Part of the reason I've kept my day job this long is I knew/know I was bound to make a few expensive mistakes... its not like I ever went to college and got a business degree or anything, Hel I've always learned by doing, which generally means ****ing up more often then not.

Any way... I talk to much... this time next year I hope to have big news... maybe sooner.


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