# My new Master 2 saddle - HELP



## 9th year rookie (Mar 5, 2007)

I can't seem to get it to fit right.

For ten years, I was hanging from a Weaver split suspension saddle.
Lurking on this site, reading about every saddle in every catalogue.
Finally, my gear disapears, a great excuse to get a new saddle.

First day, I had the back straps and leg loops too tight. Black and blue hips.

I loosened those up. Last 4-5 climbs, hips are ok but my [email protected]**$ are getting crushed when I hanging from vertical or taking breaks w/secured foot lock on ascent. Glad I already had kids. 

I'm tying my climb line to a rope clip and attaching to the central D on the harness and using a friction hitch with the tail. Is this saddle better for the "split tail" setup?, connecting at two points on the saddle. I used that set up with my old gear when I knew I would have many branches inside the loop of my DdRT. I haven't replaced that yet (short split tail and miropulley and about a million biners)

Any suggestions appreciated. Take downs strapped in w/my new wrap spikes are sweet as my legs dont even know theyre in spikes and the back strap is wide and comfy, compared to old split saddle. But hanging vertical...


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 5, 2007)

I climbed on a Master II for several years. After reading reports on here and other sites it seems that the ba!! busting effect of that saddle is commonplace. I switched to a Butterfly II 2 1/2 yrs. ago and that made a big difference in comfort. I am looking forward to the reports of some of the latest saddles coming out. I don't like the prices but to spend $400-500 for better comfort for several years, especially since I am in my mid 40's, those prices may be justified!!!


Also a splittail can be used on any saddle.


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## Fumbler (Mar 5, 2007)

I have a Master II and also had the same experience.

My solution:
Get two Maillon Rapide delta links and 2 feet of Ultratech.
Put the links through the middle attachment points on each side.
Tie the Ultratech to the delta links with double overhand fisherman's knots.
Adjust the length of the bridge til you like it.
Clip your carabiners to the Ultratech.

It solves the crunching problem and makes it a little easier to move around.
Total cost $11 ($4 per link plus $3 in Ultratech).


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## 9th year rookie (Mar 7, 2007)

*Thanks for the replies*

Fumbler,

Sounds like if I used a split tail (separate piece from my climb line) and connect at same 2 locations I would get the same result.
Does that sound right or am I missing something.
Tomorrow I'm going to try that....back later.

Thanks again for the input


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## DonnyO (Mar 7, 2007)

9th year rookie said:


> Fumbler,
> 
> Sounds like if I used a split tail (separate piece from my climb line) and connect at same 2 locations I would get the same result.
> Does that sound right or am I missing something.
> ...




Dude it's 2007. If you don't know what a split tail is, I'll come to you and show you!


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## Fumbler (Mar 7, 2007)

9th year rookie said:


> Fumbler,
> 
> Sounds like if I used a split tail (separate piece from my climb line) and connect at same 2 locations I would get the same result.
> Does that sound right or am I missing something.
> ...



Does this help?


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 7, 2007)

Nice!!!

If I recall.......someone else posted something similar to this a few years back!!!


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## SWAMPY036 (Mar 8, 2007)

you should always have your gates opposing when hooked to the same connection point


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## Fumbler (Mar 8, 2007)

SWAMPY036 said:


> you should always have your gates opposing when hooked to the same connection point



I normally do.
I clipped on those two split tails (4 foot pieces of arborplex and safety blue) real quick just to snap a pic.
I don't think it matters how they face when I'm standing in the kitchen


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## NickfromWI (Mar 12, 2007)

Looks familiar!






Here's a pic of one of the bridges I am using on my MII. I don't use that one anymore, I have designed a much better one using a polyester single braid. But this one will give you the idea...

love
nick


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## cntrybo2 (Mar 12, 2007)

i am a newbie and not affraid to say it but isnt what fumbler has rigged up essentially the same thing as a "floating D" type saddle?


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## Fumbler (Mar 12, 2007)

Nick, is that Tenex?



cntrybo2 said:


> i am a newbie and not affraid to say it but isnt what fumbler has rigged up essentially the same thing as a "floating D" type saddle?



Yes, it's basically the same as a floating D.
It changes the spot where your weight is supported (moves it down) and makes the saddle much more comfortable.


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## treebogan (Mar 12, 2007)

*Funny that?*

Just the other day I climbed for the first time in a saddle with a floating "D".Komet butterfly,doing a large crown reduction.I was one of the two climbers up the big Oak,my gear hadn't arrived from the States yet.Man what a change!I nearly pi$$ed myself branch walking a coule of times,I'm used to a single non-floating attachment ,also the lower level of the harness felt as though I'd fall out of it.I mostly do removals,I can't see the "butterfly" being much fun to wear with an 066 hanging off a side ring,but then again thats not what it was designed for by the look of it.
Just my Penny's worth


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## ddhlakebound (Mar 12, 2007)

SWAMPY036 said:


> you should always have your gates opposing when hooked to the same connection point



I'm not trying to disagree, but I'd like to understand why this is so. 

If either leg comes unclipped from your harness, you are subject to a fall. 

Can the two biners interact in a way which could cause failure if they face the same direction? Or is there some other reason?


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 12, 2007)

treebogan said:


> Just the other day I climbed for the first time in a saddle with a floating "D".Komet butterfly,doing a large crown reduction.I was one of the two climbers up the big Oak,my gear hadn't arrived from the States yet.Man what a change!I nearly pi$$ed myself branch walking a coule of times,I'm used to a single non-floating attachment ,also the lower level of the harness felt as though I'd fall out of it.I mostly do removals,I can't see the "butterfly" being much fun to wear with an 066 hanging off a side ring,but then again thats not what it was designed for by the look of it.
> Just my Penny's worth




All I know is the B'fly II changed alot of things for me. No more did I get the crouch and hip pains that the Master II gave me!!!

I am waiting to see what the report of the latest saddles are!!!


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## Blinky (Mar 12, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> I'm not trying to disagree, but I'd like to understand why this is so.
> 
> If either leg comes unclipped from your harness, you are subject to a fall.
> 
> Can the two biners interact in a way which could cause failure if they face the same direction? Or is there some other reason?



I was wondering that myself. 

For redirects I reverse gates on two non-locking biners. With screw lock biners I was taught to 'always screw down to not screw up'. The only reason I can think of with posi-locks is the bulk of the two locking mechs against each other causing a stress riser on the gates under load.


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## Fumbler (Mar 12, 2007)

Blinky said:


> I was wondering that myself.
> 
> For redirects I reverse gates on two non-locking biners. With screw lock biners I was taught to 'always screw down to not screw up'. The only reason I can think of with posi-locks is the bulk of the two locking mechs against each other causing a stress riser on the gates under load.



I do the same for non-locking biners. For tri-locks I turn them around so I can easily hook on my figure 8.


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## NickfromWI (Mar 13, 2007)

Fumbler- It's not tenex. It is Yale Cordage's Vectrus. I think that one was 1/4" diameter and has an MBS around 8,000 pounds. I don't use that rope as a bridge anymore. I have better pics somewhere on this website, or at ********...but I can't find it. Now I use a thicker polyester rope. It works quite well. I have it attached via bow shackles identical to those that hold the bridge on the butterfly 2 saddle.

love
nick


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## Fumbler (Mar 13, 2007)

NickfromWI said:


> Fumbler- It's not tenex. It is Yale Cordage's Vectrus. I think that one was 1/4" diameter and has an MBS around 8,000 pounds. I don't use that rope as a bridge anymore. I have better pics somewhere on this website, or at ********...but I can't find it. Now I use a thicker polyester rope. It works quite well. I have it attached via bow shackles identical to those that hold the bridge on the butterfly 2 saddle.
> 
> love
> nick



Where do you find clevises like the ones on a BII?
All the ones I've found are made in asia and I don't trust them for life support even though they're rated high enough. Also, they tend to be long and take away from the usable bridge length compared to those on a BII.


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## NickfromWI (Mar 13, 2007)

Last I checked, Sherrill was selling the BII replacements for $11 a pair.

You can also tie a bridge directly to the loops to see if you like it....

love
nick


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## Fumbler (Mar 13, 2007)

NickfromWI said:


> Last I checked, Sherrill was selling the BII replacements for $11 a pair.
> 
> You can also tie a bridge directly to the loops to see if you like it....
> 
> ...



Thanks, I'll try Sherrill.

I did have my cord tied directly to the loops, but someone pointed out that it will wear out the loop material.
I did notice a small amount of abbrasion, so I got the delta links.


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## 9th year rookie (Mar 14, 2007)

*thanks*

Thanks for the pictures. That is what I envisioned by the description. I made some more adjustments (on the saddle, straps etc) and used a split. Things are better. It's just a change from the but strap to the leg loops. Anyway thanks. I think I'll have some time this weekend to rig the set-up as shown in the pics. Looking forward to trying. 

DonnyO, 2007? I'm trying really hard to get into the 1990's. None of the guys I work with are using newer techniques. I keep trying the split-tail but only recently started getting more comfortable.


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## 9th year rookie (Mar 14, 2007)

DonnyO,
I just re-read your post....When I was asking about the split tail, I wasn't asking about the set-up. I was wondering if being suspended from the 2 points, instead of the single central fixed D, would create a similar, more comfortable effect.....it did/it was mo' betta.


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## newguy18 (Mar 20, 2007)

*advice*

i would suggest first making sure you got the right sizeof saddle.if it is the right size try making sure that the back and leg straps are snug not so tight it cuts circulation.i really dont know much about saddles since i use an atlas back belt to climb in.it is uncomfortable as hell it has no padding.if that doesnt work try another saddle.try wesspurs website or cutters choice.bill howe


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## Magnum783 (Mar 21, 2007)

Sweet idea guys on the floating part. I was thinking about doing it for quite some time now. I will have to order the shackles from Sherrill tommorrow. I have what I think is call the master III or deluxe it is great but i get the same problem unless I use the two lower loops. But then it is still kinda a pain when you need to be to one side. Defenlty must try your ideas.
Jared


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