# Drop Zone Safety



## Tom Dunlap (Feb 24, 2006)

I read http://tinyurl.com/ow3lg that a women was killed when she walked into the drop zone and was hit by a cut log. 

Take a look at the Drop Zone Safety protocols and adopt as much of the procedure into your work practices as possible.


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## vharrison2 (Feb 24, 2006)

That is just such a tragedy.

Tom, Thanks for the drop zone safety info. Great topic for Monday's safety meeting.


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## clearance (Feb 24, 2006)

Very good information here Tom. I sure hope people here use the eye contact method, I was taught this working around heavy equipment first. I really liked what was said about good climbers taking "a great deal of pride" in free-dropping (hammering it down). I noticed there were no problems associated with this method but many with rigging, which "doubles" the potential for problems. I also liked the guy saying only to rig if there were valuable targets, I am sure he didn't mean lawns. As far as this unfortunate woman, the details are lacking, we don't know what happened, shouldn't rush to judgement and blame the guys, as some already have. I have seen some amazing stuff, mindboggling. Once my buddy was in a big fir, I was the groundsman, pulling of a huge top for him. It was beside the railway, railway people were there with many onlookers. A guy who lived in the only house around had been told to stay away, as buddy was putting in the backcut, this moron started walking up behind him towards me. I stopped him, yelling didn't work, nor screaming as loud as I could, throwing rocks did, the top came smashing down, the guy was lucky. Another time we were getting ready to fall big fir snags in a park, we blocked the trail with cones and a sign that said "area closed tree falling danger" people just stepped over the cones, what can you say. You need a few security guys with night sticks to really keep the idiots away.


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## clearance (Feb 24, 2006)

I have been looking around on the net, I found something very interesting. I am opposed to rigging heavy pieces from the tree I am in, many here have called me a hack for wanting to hammer everthing. Check out the article written by John Ball and Shane Vosberg in April 2004, on the ISA website no less, maybe printed as well. They broke down tree service fatalities into groups, falls, struck by, and electrocution were the top three. The quote that says it all "The rigging systems we use are increasingly contributing to fatalities" Read this article for yourselves, it was the first site that came up when I googled arborist fatality tree.


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

Been looking around on the net again. Anyone out there who rigs big, check this out, get onto google and type in the following words....rigging fatality arborist....Read about all the doubt, second guessing, fear and of course death, go ahead, people said exactly what I have been saying all along, the tree is not rated and you are pushing your luck, can't believe some people here never saw this stuff, Tom?


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## pantheraba (Feb 25, 2006)

Clearance is right...well worth the reading. Here is a teaser:

"The two assault fatalities during the past 20 years were from crew members fighting—with chain saws."

The article has good info about what the greatest risks are for treeworkers (it's not coworkers with chainsaws).

http://www.isa-arbor.com/publications/arbnews/apr04/feature2.aspx


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

Kind of sad I had to find out the dirty truth on my own, of course when people are talkng about something they will rarely bring something up that validates anothers points. Tom, in court this is called disclosure. Anyways Tom thanks for showing me how to do that stuff.


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

http://www.isa-arbor.com/publications/arbnews/apr04/feature2.aspx http://lists.tree-care.info/uktc/archive/2002/msg01743.php There you go, thanks Tom, pity you didn't show me this article earlier when we were all arguing about rigging, everyone that rigs big should read it don't you think?


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## pantheraba (Feb 25, 2006)

The UKTC thread was a good one...another discussion of taking the top out first, then delimbing...to take advantage of the dampening effect of the vegetation...thanks for the link.

It also made a good case for doing things in smaller steps...not rigging too big. It had a good analogy, do the TD like Tai Chi, rather than Kung Fu.


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

Tom, you know this information I posted, you have it on your hard drive, where it helps no one. Rigging point failure isn't on the top of the list, so what, people have died all the same, died for no good reason. If you know and say nothing about it when rigging topics come up here, I think that is depraved indifference on your part, morally reprehensible. You talk about one handing and give examples, same with single tie ins, why not the dangers of this topic? I think that just sucks, what the hell is wrong with you?


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

Tom, of course I read it, how do you think I made my first post, read my first post. The bottom paragraph of your post#7 you say the article "is saved in my hard drive" Johns article, on accidents is what you appear to be talking about. I have absolutely no desire to learn how to rig big, I'll never do it. You have never expressed any of what you knew about rigging accidents to me in any posts since I have been here. My lawyer is fond of saying "what we are interested in here are the facts" Don't be beaking off about what books I need to read or what others think of me, too much tv, not the point, you have with held vital safety information from me and others. You have failed to bring up the dangers of rigging big all the time, but have never failed to complain about spurring trims. The facts, Tom, you are a little rattled, I can tell by your responses.


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## 046 (Feb 25, 2006)

Tom, thanks very much for posting Drop Zone Safety guidelines!!!


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

Withdrew all your posts eh Tom? Can give it but ya can't take it hmmmm.


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## clearance (Feb 25, 2006)

Dan you tool, the information is all in the links posted. Tom split cause while he is an awesome tree authority he cannot justify what he failed to do and ran away.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 26, 2006)

It's interesting, I was just talking about rigging excesses with my girlfriend right before I got on here to check up on the latest posts. What we were talking about is how new books and other publications now seem to push more and more gadgets for rigging. Just take a look at any rigging info books from the last few years. Check out illustrations in the same. Everything is geared (pun?) towards using this widget or that widget to rig heavier and heavier loads. It would appear that equipment companies are now regularly in bed with the writers of these books. As it was so rightly stated here, trees are not rated. Keep in mind, one of the guys who literally wrote the book on rigging, Donzelli in "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging," was killed right before the tape that went along with the text was made, as I think I remember reading in here, by having a tree section beneath him fail when it was shock loaded by the section above it he had just cut. He was tied in to that lower section and went to ground with both sections. This fellow was super bright, and knew so much about every type of rigging gear and set-up around at the time, but he failed to give the cut section its due before he rigged it to the section below (which he also misjudged), and it was a fatal mistake. I have to admit that I prefer to cut 'em and drop 'em, but I also know that homeowners don't like to see those craters in their lawns. Ultimately, a happy medium must be found. If you're needing to rig, I think cutting smaller sections is a good idea, even though it may take twice as long to get the job done. I remember reading in the above-referenced book some line like, "You could decrease the stress on your system by cutting smaller pieces although that might not be practical." I remember thinking when I read it, "Why not?" If the author had gone for that approach, he'd probably still be around today. I don't say this to put this fellow down, since I know he was amazing at what he did, but only to suggest that we all need to consider that along with the smarts we get from experience which may encourage us to rig larger and larger sections down to save time, it sometimes pays to take it easy on the load, and take your time.


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## pantheraba (Feb 26, 2006)

Very well stated, Sunrise....good post.


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## clearance (Mar 1, 2006)

*good man*



Sunrise Guy said:


> It's interesting, I was just talking about rigging excesses with my girlfriend right before I got on here to check up on the latest posts. What we were talking about is how new books and other publications now seem to push more and more gadgets for rigging. Just take a look at any rigging info books from the last few years. Check out illustrations in the same. Everything is geared (pun?) towards using this widget or that widget to rig heavier and heavier loads. It would appear that equipment companies are now regularly in bed with the writers of these books. As it was so rightly stated here, trees are not rated. Keep in mind, one of the guys who literally wrote the book on rigging, Donzelli in "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging," was killed right before the tape that went along with the text was made, as I think I remember reading in here, by having a tree section beneath him fail when it was shock loaded by the section above it he had just cut. He was tied in to that lower section and went to ground with both sections. This fellow was super bright, and knew so much about every type of rigging gear and set-up around at the time, but he failed to give the cut section its due before he rigged it to the section below (which he also misjudged), and it was a fatal mistake. I have to admit that I prefer to cut 'em and drop 'em, but I also know that homeowners don't like to see those craters in their lawns. Ultimately, a happy medium must be found. If you're needing to rig, I think cutting smaller sections is a good idea, even though it may take twice as long to get the job done. I remember reading in the above-referenced book some line like, "You could decrease the stress on your system by cutting smaller pieces although that might not be practical." I remember thinking when I read it, "Why not?" If the author had gone for that approach, he'd probably still be around today. I don't say this to put this fellow down, since I know he was amazing at what he did, but only to suggest that we all need to consider that along with the smarts we get from experience which may encourage us to rig larger and larger sections down to save time, it sometimes pays to take it easy on the load, and take your time.


 comments guys?, this is awesome.


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## BoesTreeService (Mar 4, 2006)

This topic (minus the fueding going on between some posting members) has made me wonder about one thing. 

WHAT ARE THE LIABILITIES INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE WANDERING INTO YOUR DROP ZONE AND GETTING HIT BY FALLING DEBRIS? I ALSO USE ORANGE TRAFFIC CONES AND SIGNS WITH LARGE PRINT THAT SAYS "DANGER TREE WORK"

When Im in the tree or bucket, obviously I can't watch for people wandering into the drop zone 100% of the time, nor can my ground crew who are gathering debris, running a chipper, raking, limbing..etc. 

Does anyone know?


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## clearance (Mar 4, 2006)

*blame*

Terry, it is always the treeguys fault, no matter what. It is really for the lawyers to argue about, you don't mind paying for them do you? With all the crazy decisions in lawsuits down there, I say lotsa luck if you nail some moron that walks through all your signs, ignores you and thinks they are god. Take a quick look around after the accident, if they are dead and no one saw, put them through the chipper. Hope this helps, go back and read my first post in this thread, some people...


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## BoesTreeService (Mar 4, 2006)

One additional thought on hammering. Sure no one wants to see craters in thier yard (or driveway for that matter - I found out the hard way that an 8 ft section of 26" diameter oak dropped 30' will crater asphalt) But they also don't want to see a dead tree guy in thier yard either. 

I have found one solution to this, old tires. I carry a couple dozen tires in the pickup. They make a great cushion on a yard or driveway. If you can't hit an area the size of two dozen tires you're not very accurate. Just be aware that certain types of landings can produce a bounce - take that into consideration. (if you weld a 4' post onto a 16" diamter circular piece of steel, and you can stack several tires onto it.)


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 4, 2006)

BoesTreeService said:


> This topic (minus the fueding going on between some posting members) has made me wonder about one thing.
> 
> WHAT ARE THE LIABILITIES INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE WANDERING INTO YOUR DROP ZONE AND GETTING HIT BY FALLING DEBRIS? I ALSO USE ORANGE TRAFFIC CONES AND SIGNS WITH LARGE PRINT THAT SAYS "DANGER TREE WORK"
> 
> ...



Where there are lawyers, there is liability. The best you can do is everything you can, and hope the jury is reasonable.

If I'm on the jury, and you don't have a danger area taped or roped, you are toast. Tape is dirt cheap - there's no reason not to use it along with cones and signs. If your drop zone has a sidewalk or other public thouroughfare going through it, and you don't have live bodies guarding it, you are toast as far as I'm concerned. People are stupid - you have to allow for that. If you count on common sense keeping people safe, you are negligent.


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