# Revolutionary?....I think so for trainees



## treevet (Mar 17, 2013)

I see this new ZigZag rig as the key that opens the door to more training and assessment of potential of prospective climbers. Get them up in the top on SRT or whatever way but when they get up there they can hook up this system they have brought up pre installed and toss it over a limb and go to work without you wincing at whether or not they have tied in right or will run a suspect hitch. 

You have a young kid with no body fat and strength to handle anything and athletic and wants to learn to climb unafraid of heights. I think this may be the answer to training until they want to move to something that may be more sophisticated to them. I am getting one tomorrow and will know more after I try it. Many seem very happy with it. 

Petzl Zig Zag Shop Demo - YouTube

View attachment 285249


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 18, 2013)

I've thought about a spider jack because the smooth shackles on cranes offer little resistance so my knot always slips while on the hook then in the tree it's to tight over a branch. Figured it might be more consistent with one of those.


----------



## imagineero (Mar 18, 2013)

There's no fast track to being a good climber. Proper skills start on the ground - proper saw handling, tension and compression, knots, rigging, running ropes. understanding wood and how to work a tree. It takes time. Once you've mastered all the basic skills on the ground, you start with basic climbs. Spiking palms, simple take downs with no targets around. As you build your confidence and experience, you move into taller, but still fairly basic trees. Working on your rigging, and applying different cuts in the tree. By that time, your knowledge of species, seasons, and trim patterns may have evolved somewhat, and you can start on basic spikeless trimming work. From there you move on to move complex rigging and takedowns, etc etc.

If someone hasn't mastered all those basics, they've no business being in a tree. If you can't tie, dress, and set at least one hitch, stay on the ground.

Shaun


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

I don't agree with you. How many employees do you have? How long have you been running your own business. That ridiculous description of your set up on your VT thread is absurdly and unnecessarily complicated, especially for the new guy. Don't agree to start the guy on spikes either. How many have you taught?

This mechanical prussik gets them started. They don't have to have been a groundie but it helps but not a deal clincher in my opinion. Teach em the bowline/running bowline, some basic cuts, put em supervised on the wood pile for a while, let em do a little ground and mix in some low and slow climbing....with this ZigZag. 

The biggest negs to starting a new climber in a small biz is worry of their ability to set up a hitch repeatedly and taking the time to monitor every move while still making some money. This eliminates both those worries given you have taught them basic pruning and maybe taken a few trips up in the tree with them. Let them get in to the removals later after they get an appreciation for trees and they can make money now instead of hating how slow they are on TD's.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> I see this new ZigZag rig as the key that opens the door to more training and assessment of potential of prospective climbers. Get them up in the top on SRT or whatever way but when they get up there they can hook up this system they have brought up pre installed and toss it over a limb and go to work without you wincing at whether or not they have tied in right or will run a suspect hitch.
> 
> You have a young kid with no body fat and strength to handle anything and athletic and wants to learn to climb unafraid of heights. I think this may be the answer to training until they want to move to something that may be more sophisticated to them. I am getting one tomorrow and will know more after I try it. Many seem very happy with it.
> 
> ...



How are you getting one tomorrow? thought they were on back order everywhere.


----------



## Pelorus (Mar 18, 2013)

Nice to see you here! Tree et, and I'm enjoying this thread. 
Good points of view being expressed on both sides.
I own both a ZigZag and a Hitchhiker. The hitchhiker is getting used more (removals; conifers), but I'm glad I purchased both.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Del_ said:


> If they can't tie the hitch, they should be on the ground, as re-tying in the tree is standard operating procedure. The system shown may have to be moved around, anyway. I don't believe which hitch is used is as important as long as it's used and tied correctly. A much simpler system than the zig zag would be better. It's about learning balance and foreseeing dangerous swings, using a chainsaw in the air, what to cut once you're up there and not doing damage to the property below. Not necessary in that order.



Again, I disagree....dangerous swings...doing damage to property below...you are describing a removal. My premise is get them up there doing some basic pruning which you can sell the schit out of, you can begin making money immediately with them with no injury or damage issues...while they learn. 

Retying is not that important imo when first starting but with a camming lanyard and no splice on the climbing line, this can be re installed easily from the aerial end of the climb line in the tree just like a re tie. 

The biggest block in growing your small tree service, which most of us have, is lack of climbers in the busy season. You can't take them right to dangerous removals (injury and damage worries) and you cannot slow to a snail's pace and suffer through their inept attempts at TD's while the lot star TD guy (maybe you) teaches or grounds. With a whole yard of pruning and a gm...you can after a while, just leave em alone and go make money elsewhere. Hey if you teach em to be a TD star, they gonna motor off on their own or some other tree co (treeco  that will pay more cause they don't have a TD guy.

How does it get more simple than this ZigZag (or safe)?


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> How are you getting one tomorrow? thought they were on back order everywhere.



My man Luke said he's sending me one and when he says something you can take it to the bank.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Nice to see you here! Tree vet, and I'm enjoying this thread.
> Good points of view being expressed on both sides.
> I own both a ZigZag and a Hitchhiker. The hitchhiker is getting used more (removals; conifers), but I'm glad I purchased both.



I been climbing on a distal and hitchlimber for a few years and occassionally on the srt thing (RW) but I don't like to have the anchor line to worry about and can go up a drt on my ascentree and couple of pantins if not handwalking up the lines. I just really see this thing for training new guys but I may just fall for it myself.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

> Climbing to the tips when pruning exposes the climber to swings.



this ain't rocket science, just common sense is needed.



> Any time limbs are cut on a tree there is a possibility of doing damage to property below.



that's just not true


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

go take a nap and come back


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Just received it and very cool set up. Today a rainer here so set it up on my lat machine and it is smooth as silk and feathery responsive. I think you could do what we used to call a Miller jump out of a 100 ' oak (used to race to ground and loser buys the beer) and stop on a dime. No sit back, you can feed line straight through it when ascending. Almost Rolex like in construction...absolutely love it. And just as I thought...you can just feed the working end of the cl line thru it to set up or re tie, but a splice won't be going thru it. Who needs it tho.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 18, 2013)

I'm hesitant to recommend expensive toys and gear for a new climber. This could easily send them down a dead end road where gadgets and gizmos rule, but don't get the job done. There are forums filled with those types of climbers. Teach them the most basic and let their own interest in the profession spur them on to the range of techniques out there. I'm with you on pruning first. Way less chance of injury/property damage and forces the climber to trust their rope and saddle, not their spikes.


----------



## TreeAce (Mar 18, 2013)

I just got my ZZ and it looks just as sweet as they did in Baltimore last fall. i will try it out as soon as I get my new rope (cougar blue) to go with it. I had bought Vortex and thought better of it for use in the ZZ and returned it. As for new climbers using the ZZ, I would say no. Rope n saddle first , no spurs. Handsaw then chainsaw. As for worrying about knot tying, I make a guy tie a taughtline behind his back and then one handed while a couple feet off the ground. Then a blakes or whatever. I have a new climber for this year who still climbs on a closed system with a knut (?) I think . And he is a young guy so I was kinda surprised. I showed some goodies I have in my kit and his eyes lit up. I figure it should be a good sign. Now let me ask this....esp with a young man ( this guys 24 and physically fit) do i insist that he is skilled in foot locking (I am not) before giving him a pantin? He would be better off in my opinion to know foot locking but who would really learn it when theres a pantin? OR you could say who would NEED it when theres a pantin. Of course gadets get lost,broken,and forgot at the shop sometimes so..... OR how about this one....do you let a new climber use a wraptor?


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> I'm hesitant to recommend expensive toys and gear for a new climber. This could easily send them down a dead end road where gadgets and gizmos rule, but don't get the job done. There are forums filled with those types of climbers. Teach them the most basic and let their own interest in the profession spur them on to the range of techniques out there. I'm with you on pruning first. Way less chance of injury/property damage and forces the climber to trust their rope and saddle, not their spikes.



Consider this...the gadget is used by them and NOT owned by them. The biggest shock I have found the breakaway guy has when he leaves me for greener pastures is the sudden realization that this job is a massively more difficult without all the tools that fit every niche that I OWN and they don't get to use anymore.

You train the guy on the ZZ, he is not liable to buy his own at $275. 

This thing is so smooth IMO because of the rope on metal effect as opposed to the rope on rope of the traditional system's friction. An analogy would be the porty compared to the old school wrap around the tree.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

TreeAce said:


> I just got my ZZ and it looks just as sweet as they did in Baltimore last fall. i will try it out as soon as I get my new rope (cougar blue) to go with it. I had bought Vortex and thought better of it for use in the ZZ and returned it. As for new climbers using the ZZ, I would say no. Rope n saddle first , no spurs. Handsaw then chainsaw. As for worrying about knot tying, I make a guy tie a taughtline behind his back and then one handed while a couple feet off the ground. Then a blakes or whatever. I have a new climber for this year who still climbs on a closed system with a knut (?) I think . And he is a young guy so I was kinda surprised. I showed some goodies I have in my kit and his eyes lit up. I figure it should be a good sign. Now let me ask this....esp with a young man ( this guys 24 and physically fit) do i insist that he is skilled in foot locking (I am not) before giving him a pantin? He would be better off in my opinion to know foot locking but who would really learn it when theres a pantin? OR you could say who would NEED it when theres a pantin. Of course gadets get lost,broken,and forgot at the shop sometimes so..... OR how about this one....do you let a new climber use a wraptor?



I see the taughtline and Blakes as dinosaurs because they are not able to be slack tended and therefore add that dimension to danger to the new guy. Not the case with this.

New guys won't be using my Wraptor...no way! Pantins...and ascendtree...sure.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> Consider this...the gadget is used by them and NOT owned by them. The biggest shock I have found the breakaway guy has when he leaves me for greener pastures is the sudden realization that this job is a massively more difficult without all the tools that fit every niche that I OWN and they don't get to use anymore.
> 
> You train the guy on the ZZ, he is not liable to buy his own at $275.
> 
> This thing is so smooth IMO because of the rope on metal effect as opposed to the rope on rope of the traditional system's friction. An analogy would be the porty compared to the old school wrap around the tree.



If your goal is to train a climber that can only work with the tools and parameters you provide then you might have a bit of a start on it. But there are a lot of other bases to be covered in that field if that's the game you are playing.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> If your goal is to train a climber that can only work with the tools and parameters you provide then you might have a bit of a start on it. But there are a lot of other bases to be covered in that field if that's the game you are playing.



game? don't understand that comment.


----------



## lxt (Mar 18, 2013)

So you`re thinking of having an in-experienced climber use this ZZ system so there are no worries in regard to him tying a proper friction hitch & this is going to speed him up in the department of takedowns?

First off no gadget or "tool" is gonna make a guy a good climber, let alone provide him knowledge aloft to do what is right, you put an in-experienced guy up there with this ZZ you better prepare for property damage!! if he/she cant tie knots on the ground or run a saw proficiently then you`re gonna have problems, they should be a good groundie before becoming a climber.

Whats scary is someone thinking to teach a newbie in a "large" removal by having him use this thing, all for the sake of speed & worry of tying a knot properly, Wow..........!


LXT..........


----------



## joezilla11 (Mar 18, 2013)

im new to climbing but can i add a thought from a new guys perspective? obviously there are different opinions and training methods and im not trying to step out of my boundaries... but what about the idea that if a new guy learns and gets comfortable on a cool new gizmo that he may not want to go backwards after that and start over and learn the basics, that is if he can perform the same tasks on the gizmo. He may learn the basics but might not be motivated enough to slow back down and really practice and implement it after coming from an easier/advanced way. when i first learned how to rappel the instructors had us on a mechanical device similar to a spiderjack. easy going and guys had a great time but then going to hitches and figure 8s guys were nervous, reluctant, and you could tell confidence went way down. I think if a guy is motivated enough to learn how to climb that he will learn either way, but in my experience i found it helpful to have the basics to build off of. it may not be as cost effective to you but may be in his best interest. i think there is a difference in training someone just to make you money, and training somone to be well versed in their field of work. not that its a concern to you but what if the climber leaves for reasons other than what you stated or going on his own, or if he moves etc. now there is an experienced climber who may not be able to work because he doesnt have the new toys? just my thought dont shoo me away as i have found all your posts very helpful! im just trying to give some perspective


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> game? don't understand that comment.



Think harder. Call me if you don't get it.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

lxt said:


> So you`re thinking of having an in-experienced climber use this ZZ system so there are no worries in regard to him tying a proper friction hitch & this is going to speed him up in the department of takedowns?
> 
> First off no gadget or "tool" is gonna make a guy a good climber, let alone provide him knowledge aloft to do what is right, you put an in-experienced guy up there with this ZZ you better prepare for property damage!! if he/she cant tie knots on the ground or run a saw proficiently then you`re gonna have problems, they should be a good groundie before becoming a climber.
> 
> ...



Some things never change...you are still as dumb a fuch as you used to be


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> Think harder. Call me if you don't get it.



Let's see...a green company owner with little experience is concerned about new climbers coming on the market to challenge him?


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> Let's see...a green company owner with little experience is concerned about new climbers coming on the market to challenge him?



Nope. Try again. Nice projection though!


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 18, 2013)

lxt said:


> So you`re thinking of having an in-experienced climber use this ZZ system so there are no worries in regard to him tying a proper friction hitch & this is going to speed him up in the department of takedowns?
> 
> First off no gadget or "tool" is gonna make a guy a good climber, let alone provide him knowledge aloft to do what is right, you put an in-experienced guy up there with this ZZ you better prepare for property damage!! if he/she cant tie knots on the ground or run a saw proficiently then you`re gonna have problems, they should be a good groundie before becoming a climber.
> 
> ...


 a tool for a tool


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

400 lb. weight limit on these 1 oh dumb


----------



## deevo (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> Just received it and very cool set up. Today a rainer here so set it up on my lat machine and it is smooth as silk and feathery responsive. I think you could do what we used to call a Miller jump out of a 100 ' oak (used to race to ground and loser buys the beer) and stop on a dime. No sit back, you can feed line straight through it when ascending. Almost Rolex like in construction...absolutely love it. And just as I thought...you can just feed the working end of the cl line thru it to set up or re tie, but a splice won't be going thru it. Who needs it tho.



What size rope you using on it? I was reading another forum and the one guy said his 1/2" vortex was not running smooth, i have vortex and arbormaster 1/2 lines.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> 400 lb. weight limit on these 1 oh dumb



So me strapping your old ass on my book bag would still put us 54lbs under ......  glad sto see your old senile curmudgeon ass posting again ....


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

deevo said:


> What size rope you using on it? I was reading another forum and the one guy said his 1/2" vortex was not running smooth, i have vortex and arbormaster 1/2 lines.



yeah the half inch a little too big


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> So me strapping your old ass on my book bag would still put us 54lbs under ......  glad sto see your old senile curmudgeon ass posting again ....



I dropped 20 lbs from 195 to 175 and feel like a young Buck....well maybe not quite that bad lol


----------



## treemandan (Mar 18, 2013)

I don't see this tool as being any more or any less revolutionary than any of all the other different but similar tools that are available. Personally, I feel they all add a little more danger to the job as they all are contructed with alot of small, not readily visable, wearable moving parts which, in this unbelievably confounded industry, is not such a great idea so I will be sticking with friction hitches ( I usually need 2, sometimes 3 per tree) and leave the arguing to ya'll. And yeah, ya gotta watch where yer throttling that Wraptor into.


----------



## deevo (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> yeah the half inch a little too big



Oh great, I have 300' of new vortex in the house! What rope are you or anyone else using? Thinking of getting one when i am in states next week.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

deevo said:


> Oh great, I have 300' of new vortex in the house! What rope are you or anyone else using? Thinking of getting one when i am in states next week.



Vortex cool


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

View attachment 285498


treevet said:


> Vortex cool


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Mar 18, 2013)

I do not think it would be wise to forego teaching on the older methods and having a new climber "cut his teeth" on this or any mechanical device for that matter. When a climber is aloft he is the one who is ultimately responsible for his life and as a teacher of climbers it would be terrible on my part to not equip them mentally with the skills to handle the emergency situations that can and do happen while climbing. Start slow and stay low may sound cliche but as I have gotten older in this industry it has become all too clear the needed emphasis on safe climbing practices and training. I like the idea of the Zig Zag but then I look at the opening on the metal plate for the chipper winch line and see the grooves cut into it by grit impregnated amsteel blue and it gets me thinking..... Anyhoo its been a long day in the snow/sleet/rain of good ole Ohio so goodnight.


----------



## TreeAce (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> I see the taughtline and Blakes as dinosaurs because they are not able to be slack tended and therefore add that dimension to danger to the new guy. Not the case with this.
> 
> New guys won't be using my Wraptor...no way! Pantins...and ascendtree...sure.



yes the taughtline n blakes are def out dated for sure. I just think you gotta learn to walk before you can run. I would never encourage a climber to use these knots on a reg basis but I would expect any climber, new or old to know them and have at least climbed a couple trees with em. Or at least rappelled down a spar or two just so they know they do actually work. They work in the sense that they hold you and you wont fall.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

I climbed for a few years on hemp rope. Nobody thought the nylon line would catch on. After it did nobody needed to go back and see how the hemp worked.

But yes, I can see emergency situations that just a piece of rope and a saddle could come into play if you dropped the device etc.. One day I drove a long way to a job and had no saddle and made one out of cl line and climbed all day on it.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

Del_ said:


> So you plan on training a climber that knows so little about climbing that if he leaves you he will not be able to climb because all he knows how to climb with is the ZZ?
> 
> And this logic comes from a guy that has been in the tree biz for over 30 years?
> 
> ...



You've been building up for this big dramatic question for hours now and finally flatulated it out lol.

Been in the biz for well over 40 years contrary to you who hasn't done schit in well over 40 years.

Hey....it is a good mechanical prussik, a new guy (or old fart like you) would see an improvement over the old set up (if you had even been up a tree in 20 years) and it would aid in training and thus increase your bottom line $ imo. cheers.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

ooooow ouuuuch!!


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> ooooow ouuuuch!!



Your basic idea is right and I would also feel better about a guy starting out with this in a tree. Someone ties there knot wrong and its light out with this its as simple as hooking carabiners to the saddle as long as your rope had a spliced eye.


----------



## treevet (Mar 18, 2013)

mattfr12 said:


> Your basic idea is right and I would also feel better about a guy starting out with this in a tree. Someone ties there knot wrong and its light out with this its as simple as hooking carabiners to the saddle as long as your rope had a spliced eye.



and you are always secured feeding or cinching line, including no sit back.


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 18, 2013)

treevet said:


> and you are always secured feeding or cinching line, including no sit back.



Luke is the man to we started exclusively buying stuff from him. fastest shipping I have ever seen and always the best price.


----------



## Ms2014life (Mar 19, 2013)

Have been using a zigzag for about a month day in day out. It is the smoothest and easiest system i have ever used, been climbing for 15 years would offer it to a new climber and a vet once you've tried one you may never look at the other systems the same again


----------



## lxt (Mar 19, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> im new to climbing but can i add a thought from a new guys perspective? obviously there are different opinions and training methods and im not trying to step out of my boundaries... but what about the idea that if a new guy learns and gets comfortable on a cool new gizmo that he may not want to go backwards after that and start over and learn the basics, that is if he can perform the same tasks on the gizmo. He may learn the basics but might not be motivated enough to slow back down and really practice and implement it after coming from an easier/advanced way. when i first learned how to rappel the instructors had us on a mechanical device similar to a spiderjack. easy going and guys had a great time but then going to hitches and figure 8s guys were nervous, reluctant, and you could tell confidence went way down. I think if a guy is motivated enough to learn how to climb that he will learn either way, but in my experience i found it helpful to have the basics to build off of. it may not be as cost effective to you but may be in his best interest. i think there is a difference in training someone just to make you money, and training somone to be well versed in their field of work. not that its a concern to you but what if the climber leaves for reasons other than what you stated or going on his own, or if he moves etc. now there is an experienced climber who may not be able to work because he doesnt have the new toys? just my thought dont shoo me away as i have found all your posts very helpful! im just trying to give some perspective



*If a new guy gets nervous cause of tying knots then you`re in the wrong biz, the majority of rigging in a take down is all all about knowing knots & its clear that the dinosaur that started this thread is only worried about someone being faster on a cheaper device read some of his earlier posts, problem is when one gets too old to climb & properly teach they wanna resort to something like this & then that same nutpump will be yelling up at the guy telling him " no, tie it there, no wrong knot, no, no,no...faster,faster" all the while thinking the guy aloft will be safer cause GOLLY he doesnt need to know how to tie his friction hitch..before you could get the car up to 100 you had to drive at 25mph, starting out with these gizmos & not learning some of the traditional ways first will handicap you more than help you!!*




treevet said:


> Some things never change...you are still as dumb a fuch as you used to be



You got alot of nerve! wantin to teach a newb as you suggest? im thinking the metamucil & stool softners has affected what lil brain you have!!!


LXT........


----------



## treevet (Mar 20, 2013)

lxt said:


> *If a new guy gets nervous cause of tying knots then you`re in the wrong biz, the majority of rigging in a take down is all all about knowing knots & its clear that the dinosaur that started this thread is only worried about someone being faster on a cheaper device read some of his earlier posts, problem is when one gets too old to climb & properly teach they wanna resort to something like this & then that same nutpump will be yelling up at the guy telling him " no, tie it there, no wrong knot, no, no,no...faster,faster" all the while thinking the guy aloft will be safer cause GOLLY he doesnt need to know how to tie his friction hitch..before you could get the car up to 100 you had to drive at 25mph, starting out with these gizmos & not learning some of the traditional ways first will handicap you more than help you!!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why not just buy one and see what all the chatter is about Exlax? Nevermind, guys like you, Eberly and that homo Del can't afford a chainsaw file and still make payment on your trailers. You could come out here and I will teach you to climb on it if you want? Ahhhh you probably have your retarded son climbing for you like your daddy tried to teach his retarded son (you) how to climb and failed. I understand the frustration and the anger. Maybe you need to get back on those pain pills to feel better if you ever got off off of em.

Have a great day. Your wife told me you are in a real bad mood last night.....oooops....wasn't supposed to say anything. :msp_sad:


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treevet said:


> Why not just buy one and see what all the chatter is about Exlax? Nevermind, guys like you, Eberly and that homo Del can't afford a chainsaw file and still make payment on your trailers. You could come out here and I will teach you to climb on it if you want? Ahhhh you probably have your retarded son climbing for you like your daddy tried to teach his retarded son (you) how to climb and failed. I understand the frustration and the anger. Maybe you need to get back on those pain pills to feel better if you ever got off off of em.
> 
> Have a great day. Your wife told me you are in a real bad mood last night.....oooops....wasn't supposed to say anything. :msp_sad:



Good to see you around again, vet!! :msp_tongue:


----------



## ducaticorse (Mar 20, 2013)

treevet said:


> Why not just buy one and see what all the chatter is about Exlax? Nevermind, guys like you, Eberly and that homo Del can't afford a chainsaw file and still make payment on your trailers. You could come out here and I will teach you to climb on it if you want? Ahhhh you probably have your retarded son climbing for you like your daddy tried to teach his retarded son (you) how to climb and failed. I understand the frustration and the anger. Maybe you need to get back on those pain pills to feel better if you ever got off off of em.
> 
> Have a great day. Your wife told me you are in a real bad mood last night.....oooops....wasn't supposed to say anything. :msp_sad:



Easy with the use of people's last names Sir. That is not appropriate on a public forum.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> Easy with the use of people's last names Sir. That is not appropriate on a public forum.



Points for attacking multiple members with one post though!! lol.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 20, 2013)

So, what happened, Dave? I know your ground guy left ya, he start his own show too? I mean, you've always been an ornery old prick but with the wife comments, last name use, etc., you seem to be hitting new lows. You pick up the bottle again too? How's the crane working out now that you don't have someone to run it? Lol. You just yell down from the tree which lever you want the greenhorn to pull? Lighten up, old man. It's just treework.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> Points for attacking multiple members with one post though!! lol.



I considered pushing the snitcher button but then it occurred to me that I didn't give a ####! Pretty sure lexy will tattle anyway. Nice seein ya, sleavy!


----------



## ducaticorse (Mar 20, 2013)

Man I missed this place.....


----------



## capetrees (Mar 20, 2013)

treevet said:


> Why not just buy one and see what all the chatter is about Exlax? Nevermind, guys like you, Eberly and that homo Del can't afford a chainsaw file and still make payment on your trailers. You could come out here and I will teach you to climb on it if you want? Ahhhh you probably have your retarded son climbing for you like your daddy tried to teach his retarded son (you) how to climb and failed. I understand the frustration and the anger. Maybe you need to get back on those pain pills to feel better if you ever got off off of em.
> 
> Have a great day. Your wife told me you are in a real bad mood last night.....oooops....wasn't supposed to say anything. :msp_sad:



This could get voted douche post of the day.:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## treevet (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> Good to see you around again, vet!! :msp_tongue:



Hi Paul. We havin fun yet


----------



## treevet (Mar 20, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> I considered pushing the snitcher button but then it occurred to me that I didn't give a ####! Pretty sure lexy will tattle anyway. Nice seein ya, sleavy!



got ya all riled up Eberly?  tell Laura I said "hey" ....again


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treevet said:


> Hi Paul. We havin fun yet



opcorn:


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 20, 2013)

treevet said:


> got ya all riled up Eberly?  tell Laura I said "hey" ....again



That's cute and all, what you did there, but perhaps you should stop posting for another year or two and see if reach a maturity level slightly above a third grade level. Pretty sure it's forum rules, and general man code, to leave wives out of it. Either way, happy to see my comments struck a nerve.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 20, 2013)

And when you gonna take Kyle's name off your website? Kinda misleading, no? But really, it shouldn't have come as too much of a shock that he didn't have much interest in inheriting all those roller painted, ancient rust buckets! Lol


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

God I thought LXT was nasty but vet is really making a statement . there was a aspect of hatred lost for a while that has now come back with a vengeance .


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> God I thought LXT was nasty but vet is really making a statement . there was a aspect of hatred lost for a while that has now come back with a vengeance .



No, I disagree. Not everyone is s jealous infant. Some of us actually respect one another (to a degree). Just saying.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> No, I disagree. Not everyone is s jealous infant. Some of us actually respect one another (to a degree). Just saying.



Ohhhh so when you were talking #### to Justin the other day and didn't realize you were group texting all of us ..... Since you lack the balls to say anything to me off this site , or from behind your phone or computer , don't dare talk to me about respect .... Because you turned out to be one of the biggest back dooring Mutha ####er I have ever had the displeasure of meeting , so again eat #### and ### :bang:


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> No, I disagree. Not everyone is s jealous infant. Some of us actually respect one another (to a degree). Just saying.



And as far as being jealous goes bud , I guess I could sit around and paint all my machines and trucks then look at them for the next year if I didn't have bills to pay , but since I am not 40 something living with mom , I have a life to pay for ! LOL so you stay out there in the shop getting drunk in staring at the fox across the street .


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Ohhhh so when you were talking #### to Justin the other day and didn't realize you were group texting all of us ..... Since you lack the balls to say anything to me off this site , or from behind your phone or computer , don't dare talk to me about respect .... Because you turned out to be one of the biggest back dooring Mutha ####er I have ever had the displeasure of meeting , so again eat #### and ### :bang:



No, actually I knew that comment was gonna land right in your fat, stupid, lap. So once again, I guess you're a little slow. Just saying.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> No, actually I knew that comment was gonna land right in your fat, stupid, lap. So once again, I guess you're a little slow. Just saying.



Oh so when I flushed that number of yours last year , I guess your stalker ass didn't . And you have the nerve to say anything to anyone on this site or in life in general ......


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> And as far as being jealous goes bud , I guess I could sit around and paint all my machines and trucks then look at them for the next year if I didn't have bills to pay , but since I am not 40 something living with mom , I have a life to pay for ! LOL so you stay out there in the shop getting drunk in staring at the fox across the street .



If you think that retard teaching looking broad you keep posting pics of is that hot, well then more power to you! Sounds like she's doing a fine job. Just saying.:msp_smile:


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> If you think that retard teaching looking broad you keep posting pics of is that hot, well then more power to you! Sounds like she's doing a fine job. Just saying.:msp_smile:



Easy......... cause I know you kiss your mom with that mouth !!!!! :msp_ohmy:


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Oh so when I flushed that number of yours last year , I guess your stalker ass didn't . And you have the nerve to say anything to anyone on this site or in life in general ......



Was texting A friend. Just figured you'd be creeping around, that's all. Thanks.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Easy......... cause I know you kiss your mom with that mouth !!!!! :msp_ohmy:



Your wife looks like a DOG to me. Fat body!! Just saying.
Banned camp!! Lol


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> Was texting A friend. Just figured you'd be creeping around, that's all. Thanks.



Do that then and try to keep my name out of your mouth ! Weirdo !


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Do that then and try to keep my name out of your mouth ! Weirdo !



Hahaha. Will do!!:msp_tongue:


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

tree MDS said:


> Your wife looks like a DOG to me. Fat body!! Just saying.
> Banned camp!! Lol[/ I am done with your nonsense you starting on me AGAIN isn't even worth my time anymore .


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

Poster boy for insecurity!! Haha.


----------



## treemandan (Mar 20, 2013)

All this from guys who would end up getting their ####s stuck in the thing anyway. I guess the Zig Zag is not fer you then? 101 would run his over, MDS would throw his at a cop, Blakes would flat out break his on the first day and Vet is probably still trying to get his out of the box it came in.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2013)

treemandan said:


> All this from guys who would end up getting their ####s stuck in the thing anyway. I guess the Zig Zag is not fer you then? 101 would run his over, MDS would throw his at a cop, Blakes would flat out break his on the first day and Vet is probably still trying to get his out of the box it came in.



Yea....... that thing looks annoying .


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 20, 2013)

treemandan said:


> All this from guys who would end up getting their ####s stuck in the thing anyway. I guess the Zig Zag is not fer you then? 101 would run his over, MDS would throw his at a cop, Blakes would flat out break his on the first day and Vet is probably still trying to get his out of the box it came in.



Actually, it looks like a pretty good "bit of kit" to me!


----------



## lxt (Mar 21, 2013)

Ahh Vet......... never could take anothers opinion very well, ya know its bad when I think Blakes & Danno have posted some good stuff on here for you!

Anyway, good luck with teaching the use of that to your new help if you think it`ll work then give it a try, hey nothing tried nothing gained.


LXT............


----------



## climb4fun (Mar 22, 2013)

when i was teaching my niece to drive, i started her off with a manual transmission car. we had an automatic rig and she kept on complaining about how hard it was to learn on a manual and kept asking why i wouldnt let her learn on the automatic. simple answer, im teaching you the hard way 1)so that you will appreciate the easy way 2) so that if you ever NEED to do it the hard way you will know how to and wont be HELPLESS... didnt stop her from complaining and i had to repeat myself quite a few times but i know for a fact that i dont have to worry about that little girl not being able to make due with whats available. i feel the same about climbing. ive got plenty of gadgets. for some climbs they make it easy. often times i climb without them. if i didnt know how to climb without them, id have no business in a tree. my 2 cents, no offenses intended.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Mar 23, 2013)

I know I have not been around much, but let me remind yall, no wife or kid remarks, below the belt that is. UNLESS YOU ARE TALKIN BOUT YOUR OWN, keepem outa here. It will be quick and painless.


----------



## derwoodii (Apr 5, 2013)

I saw on of these only last weeks and I am in the market for some energy savin assistance as my arms are git'n old. It did 1st impress but sadly no chance to test and as none on the market to buy at the mo I'll have to wait.
I am troubled by the housing hiding the ball swivel joint weak point sure its engineered for x to the power weight but as I could no see wear point it leaves me just thinkin and changing over mid line does this mean rethreading all rope though Do like price and dont mind rig up as I dont put eyes in my rope tails.


----------

