# Newbie here, need advice on chainsaw selection.



## stillsurfing05 (Mar 11, 2016)

Plan on doing some milling soon but what to make sure I buy a saw with enough power to mill Live Oak and Black Walnut. I had a Sacs/Dolmar for years and was impressed with the saw but the local Stihl dealer is only a few blocks away for service if needed. I have around 1k +/- for saw funds. Thanks for any advice! This is "Great" f0rum and so glad I found it.
Thanks,


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## Quietfly (Mar 11, 2016)

I would go with whichever has better local support & parts availability.


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 11, 2016)

Quietfly said:


> I would go with whichever has better local support & parts availability.


Thanks Quietfly…you're probably right altho I still favor the Dolmar…btw, great looking slabs ur cutting!


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## Quietfly (Mar 11, 2016)

Thanks, here's a teaser of what's next.....


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 11, 2016)

my god brother, i actually eny you!! I could spent all day cutting wood!!!


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## Quietfly (Mar 11, 2016)

Lol that's a little deceptive of me. I live next to a Forestry Service. So the owner let's me cut and take my stuff,as long as i don't take any of the money trees, ie longer than 10ft, no rot, hard wood.


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## BobL (Mar 11, 2016)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Thanks Quietfly…you're probably right altho I still favor the Dolmar…btw, great looking slabs ur cutting!


That's a very important consideration unless you are more or less able to do almost everything to tune/fix saws yourself.


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## Enrico Carini (Mar 12, 2016)

Everything I hear about the 461 is that it might be the best all around saw ever made. I want one pretty bad but just ordered a brand new 880

There's a real beauty in the classifieds right now http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/like-new-stihl-ms461.294624/#post-5790080


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 12, 2016)

Thanks for the advice all…Think I'll go with the MS461 at my local dealer, saw with 25" bar w/chain was 1059.00 out the door. Once again thanks for the help!


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## rube2112 (Mar 13, 2016)

Holy toledo! For that money you can get a brand new husqvarna 395xp. Robb


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 13, 2016)

I'll check into that Robb. I have a 141le Husqvana that's 10+ yrs old and have had no problems with it. Are you milling with the 395xp? Your thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks,


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## rube2112 (Mar 13, 2016)

Hi, i mill exclusively with the 395xp. I really don't think you can do better. Thats a bunch of money for a 76 cc saw!! You can get the 395 with 28" bar for the same money. I know which one i would pick. Its not even a close contest!! If u want something smaller you can get one of the bigger dolmars for WAY less money. Robb


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 13, 2016)

I really like the Dolmars Rob, had one for years and it loved to eat wood. I was looking at the 7910 78cc (around 900+/-) but don't have a dealer in town and the Stihl is a few blocks away. Can a 78cc saw handle Oaks and Walnut? I just don't want to invest all this money and be underpowered. I'm in no rush to pull the trigger on anything so any advice would help.


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## rube2112 (Mar 13, 2016)

Yes it will mill anything you want but still the 395 is a better choice for milling


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## Enrico Carini (Mar 13, 2016)

395xp is a $1200 saw here


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## rube2112 (Mar 13, 2016)

Enrico Carini said:


> 395xp is a $1200 saw here


I just bought my second one from here... . 
http://www.generatorfactoryoutlet.com/husqvarna-28-in-3-8-pitch-050-gauge-94cc-chainsaw-395xp

Im not affiliated with this place at all. Robb


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 13, 2016)

That is a beast! Common sense would be to get the Husq over the Stihl..no tax either I assume. Also could purchase a 32" bar and still have some cash left over. Decision made. 
Thanks Rob!


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Would the stock chain be suitable for milling, if not any suggestions, recommendations?


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## rube2112 (Mar 13, 2016)

stillsurfing05 said:


> That is a beast! Common sense would be to get the Husq over the Stihl..no tax either I assume. Also could purchase a 32" bar and still have some cash left over. Decision made.
> Thanks Rob!




You're welcome. I know a lot of these guys preach about buying local but they must have a bunch more money to throw away than me!! . Robb


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## rube2112 (Mar 13, 2016)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Would the stock chain be suitable for milling, if not any suggestions, recommendations?




Not really. Get baileys ripping chain. Amazon has it. Robb


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Every dollar counts in my book too Rob. I've been saving for a long time for this and the Alaskan mill, just want to get it right. I did find a local husq dealer if I need assistance or parts but they can't match this online price.
Many thanks,
Forrest


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## stillsurfing05 (Mar 15, 2016)

Rob, pulled the trigger on the 595 could not pass it up, lot of saw for the money compared to other brands. I'm pumped!


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## rube2112 (Mar 15, 2016)

You're not going to be disappointed for sure. I've milled with alot of different saws and the 395 xp is easily the best for milling that I've ever used. Robb


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## stillsurfing05 (Apr 26, 2016)

Well, I've had my 395xp for about a month and granberg 36" mill ships tomorrow,so I'm slowing getting set up as funds allow. I'm ready to order a 36" bar and ripping chain but notice on the 36" bar the gauge jumps to .063, my 28" bar is .05o is this because the longer bar requiring heavier duty chain? Believe I'll go with the Woodlandpro ripping chain for the 36" as the specs are the same for the bar. any thoughts or sugguestions would be appreciated. 
My first milling project may be a tough one. I have access to two live oak trees that have been down for about a year, diameter approx. 30"+/_,
Thanks,


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## BobL (Apr 26, 2016)

stillsurfing05 said:


> . . . I'm ready to order a 36" bar and ripping chain but notice on the 36" bar the gauge jumps to .063, my 28" bar is .05o is this because the longer bar requiring heavier duty chain?



The longer and narrower the chain is the more it will stretch. Longer chains also tend to be driven by more powerful powerhead which can more easily break lighter chains. 28" is about the limit for 050.


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## stillsurfing05 (Apr 26, 2016)

Understood, thanks Bob!
Hope to see a book from you soon.
Forrest


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## jnl50201 (Jul 1, 2016)

Well how much milling have you done since you got your setup? All the info you got was good except for the part about milling with standard chain. I have never bought milling chain I just refile regular cutting chain and have great results and end up with a good smooth cut. Also good choice of saw. The 395 xp is as good as it gets.

Sent from my RCT6303W87DK using Tapatalk


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## stillsurfing05 (Jul 2, 2016)

I've been meaning to post up some pics of the Live Oak and Walnut I've slabbed up but just haven't gotten around to it, hopefully tomorrow as I would like some expert thoughts and opinions, especially on the ripping chain. The chain right out of the box really did well on the Oak, nice big slivers of saw dust but as I had to re sharpen I ended up with more fine dust than those curly slivers I had at first. I took some pics of the chain and hopefully some expert eyes can tell me what I'm missing. I'll go back and re-visit prior posts on sharpening and hopefully get a better understanding on this. I really enjoyed the whole process of slabbing but let me tell ya it's a lot of work!!


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## BobL (Jul 2, 2016)

It looks like you don'y have anywhere near enough hook but the photos are too out of focus and not directly side on enough to say anything definitive.
Photos need to be a closeup, and directly side on as possible like the one below.
Otherwise I cannot make measurements on the cutters in my graphics program.


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## stillsurfing05 (Jul 2, 2016)

Thanks Bob, I'll take a few and post em up.


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## stillsurfing05 (Jul 2, 2016)

Bob, is this better?


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## stillsurfing05 (Jul 2, 2016)

Black Walnut I slabbed up last week. Ended up with four 2" slabs and two 1" slabs. I have one more tree to take down which is roughly 36" in diameter but that will have to wait till fall when it's not 96 degrees outside! Notice the piles of fine saw dust? Need to improve on my sharpening skills.


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## BlueRider (Jul 2, 2016)

You might want to consider cutting your slabs a bit thicker. I cut most stuff I mill at 2 1/4" thick and by the time its dry it shrinks down to a bit over 2". After surfacing those slabs that I mill at 2 1/4" inch finish out at 1 3/4"- 1 7/8" depending on the amount of warp, and that is for a slab that dries with very little warp. Different woods shrink a bit more or a bit less but at 2" the difference isn't enough to worry about. It really depends what you intend to do with your wood but leaving yourself the most options for later takes a bit planning now.


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## BobL (Jul 2, 2016)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Bob, is this better?


Focus is better and confirms you don't have enough hook, but the camera has to be much closer to 90• to the chain in all directions. Look again at my photo above. There should not be any side on or vertical angle to the shot.


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## stillsurfing05 (Jul 2, 2016)

Sorry Bob, hear we go.


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## BobL (Jul 2, 2016)

That's better.


Firstly your rakers are too high.

Go to the Milling 101 thread which is a sticky at the top of this forum and ready the last few pages of the thread.
start at this post (#106) http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/cs-milling-101-hints-tips-and-tricks.93458/page-6
In that thread and elsewhere I refer to "raker angle" -its not the angle across the top of the raker tip, because that should still be curved.
Instead it's the angle made by the blue lines in the picture - the top but line is parallel to the bar
As a "general guide" the raker depth "D" should be 1/10th of the gullet width "G"
Remember this is a general guide - your depth will vary with, type of wood, power of saw, length of bar etc Ultimately you need to determine what they should be.

The next thing that is incorrect is the lack of hook the red lines shows what you should have.
The technical name for this is top plate filing angle.
This angle is really important because it goes hand in hand with the raker angle, too little and you will need to push much harder than necessary, too much and the chain will bog down.
Here are a couple of cutters showing more like what they should look like.


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## 009L (Jul 2, 2016)

Tag


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## stillsurfing05 (Jul 2, 2016)

Got it Bob..Thanks so much for the info. I'll go to the 101 thread and follow and post any questions I have. I do have a few questions on file size for the 3/8" chain so I'll check in tomorrow .
Best,
Forrest


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## BobL (Jul 2, 2016)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Got it Bob..Thanks so much for the info. I'll go to the 101 thread and follow and post any questions I have. I do have a few questions on file size for the 3/8" chain so I'll check in tomorrow .



Once again there no hard and fast rule on files. I always recommend starting with the chain manufacturers recommendation and varying the file size slightly up and down from there.

The second thing that affects the hook is if you use a "file guide" and if that guide is made for a specific file size or can be adjusted up and down relative to the top plate of the cutter.

On the LHS of the picture below you can see the effect of using the same size file and changing the file height relative to the top of the cutter.
Lower down (Red) makes more hook, through to the blue, higher up, as the least hook.

On the RHS you can see the effect of using small and large files.
For the filing all done at the same height, larger file (Red) makes more hook etc 

You have to experiment in an incremental way to find what suits your setup.



More powerful saws can handle lower rakers and greater hook, finish may suffer a little but I've found operator skill is just as important as these factors.
There's always a trade off with these things because greater hook will also go blunt faster .


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## abbott295 (Jul 3, 2016)

BobL, again, thanks for your excellent graphics. I had understood about how file size and file height affect hook; this last graphic makes the point quite graphically. This should be helpful for many.


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 24, 2017)

So, I havn't done any milling since this last post but that's fixing to change. I have the chance to mill two 30" dia. Long Leaf Pine logs which estimate to be over 100 years old and need to mill them before they are hauled off to the dump in the next few days. First pic is of the Husky chain and the second the Woodland Pro ripping chain from Bailey's, both chain are 3/8"x .050 gauge. Just wanna know if I'm on the right track In putting enough "hook" in the chain. I also have Digital Angle Indicator that should help me finding the right depth ratio between the chisel and raker. I'll be using the Granberg bar mounted sharpener. any and all advice is much appreciated!
Thanks,


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## SeMoTony (Jan 24, 2017)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Well, I've had my 395xp for about a month and granberg 36" mill ships tomorrow,so I'm slowing getting set up as funds allow. I'm ready to order a 36" bar and ripping chain but notice on the 36" bar the gauge jumps to .063, my 28" bar is .05o is this because the longer bar requiring heavier duty chain? Believe I'll go with the Woodlandpro ripping chain for the 36" as the specs are the same for the bar. any thoughts or sugguestions would be appreciated.
> My first milling project may be a tough one. I have access to two live oak trees that have been down for about a year, diameter approx. 30"+/_,
> Thanks,


When the chain comes double-check how sharp it really is. Depth gauge angle needs to be determined by how it cuts with your setup. Dust means lower gauges for chips. Heavy chatter and/or bog of chain/powerhead speed touch up the cutters to raise gauges in relation to cutter height, unless the cutters are being pushed too hard/fast.
With experience you will find a harmony of sharpness, aux. oiling, speed of feed and all of it and the saw will sing with smoother faces on the planks coming out of the log. Stay safe & enjoy


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 24, 2017)

Thanks Tony! I'm working on the chain tonight getting a little more "hook" in the cutter...then I'll work on the depth gauge. My last attempt with some Black Walnut produced waaaay to much dust which equaled more work,lol. I think all this info is starting to sink in but I seem to work best with trial and error. I've been following the post's from BobL and he's huge help also.


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## BobL (Jan 24, 2017)

IN this image you can see 
Top - Will Mallofs cutter
Middle - Mine
Bottom - Yours


Your hook angle could be a touch greater, and clean the gullet out like mine and Will's (see curved red line on yours)

The red bar on your cutter represents a 10:1 (5.7º) raker angle which is what new stock chains have.
Remember the angle is from the cutter edge to where a straight line will just touch the top of the raker, because your raker is quite rounded that line will touch further forward on the raker as shown

Mine has a 6.5º angle because my raker top is a bit more sloped - this has a double advantage of allowing the raker to penetrate more wood.

Will's raker angle is 7.2º AND his raker is very small so it too will penetrate into the wood. Don't forget he's using and 090!

Your raker depth needs to be determined by trail and error, maybe try a more steep sided raker as well. Don't make to great a change at any one time - small steps.


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## SeMoTony (Jan 24, 2017)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Thanks Tony! I'm working on the chain tonight getting a little more "hook" in the cutter...then I'll work on the depth gauge. My last attempt with some Black Walnut produced waaaay to much dust which equaled more work,lol. I think all this info is starting to sink in but I seem to work best with trial and error. I've been following the post's from BobL and he's huge help also.


BobL shares what he has learned from those early in his milling experience, which led to his development of attempts at better ways and means. His teaching ability comes from his pre retirement work and how darned much research he has done to improve his own milling ! I would prefer to have had access to a site like this 8 years ago when I was beginning. Would have saved a large amount of wasted effort and funds. Glad I'm hear now!


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## lone wolf (Jan 24, 2017)

stillsurfing05 said:


> Thanks Tony! I'm working on the chain tonight getting a little more "hook" in the cutter...then I'll work on the depth gauge. My last attempt with some Black Walnut produced waaaay to much dust which equaled more work,lol. I think all this info is starting to sink in but I seem to work best with trial and error. I've been following the post's from BobL and he's huge help also.


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## lone wolf (Jan 24, 2017)

Here is some Walnut dust.


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 24, 2017)

Thanks BobL!! I'll work on getting a little more hook and cleaning the gullet out, (which was my next question) and raker angle will my project for tomorrow. I'll post pics tomorrow for further comment after I finish.Thanks again for the photo assistance, it's a big help.
You guys make this forum one of the best!


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 24, 2017)

I agree Tony...It would have been a huge learning curve for me at this stage of my life, not getting any younger!


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 24, 2017)

That's some serious dust Lone Wolf and a beautiful chunk of Walnut!


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 26, 2017)

Before I finish filing down the rest of rakers I wanted to post this pic of the first raker I finished to make sure I'm on the right track. The raker in pic is approx. 6.0 deg. using a Digital Angle Finder. Any thoughts or sugguestions?
Thanks!


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## BobL (Jan 27, 2017)

Raker looks good, bit more hook on the cutter maybe ?


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## stillsurfing05 (Jan 27, 2017)

That's good to hear, thanks Bob. Im gonna go down in file size to get the hook and give that a try. This cutter has a more rounded side than my other chain, is there a reason for this? Is this preferred over the more chisled profiled cutter?


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## BobL (Jan 27, 2017)

stillsurfing05 said:


> That's good to hear, thanks Bob. Im gonna go down in file size to get the hook and give that a try. This cutter has a more rounded side than my other chain, is there a reason for this? Is this preferred over the more chisled profiled cutter?


Yeah there are some that are more rounded. It doesn't make a lot of difference to performance, the more rounded ones seem to stay a bit sharper for longer.


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