# video showing proper use of ascenders



## Plasmech (Sep 16, 2009)

Anybody have a link to a good video and/or write-up on the proper use of ascenders for tree work? Thanks.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 16, 2009)

There is a ton of stuff here and on youtube. You have to be more specific. What style of climbing SRT DRT? What type of ascenders, hand, foot or a whole climbing system?


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## Plasmech (Sep 16, 2009)

DRT with left and right hand Petzl's...footl-ocking.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 16, 2009)

Try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_GUggGMmM


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## Plasmech (Sep 16, 2009)

That's really cool! 

I think I might use a single ankle robe grab and a pair of ass-enders with a prussic DRT system. 




Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Try this
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_GUggGMmM


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## oldirty (Sep 16, 2009)

that would be a pantin you looking for plas. cmi makes one too i think.


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## Plasmech (Sep 16, 2009)

oldirty said:


> that would be a pantin you looking for plas. cmi makes one too i think.



Yep, a Pantin.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 17, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Yep, a Pantin.



yeah pantin for sure, cmi does make one and its like $20 cheaper then the petzl. By the way ankle grab is what your doing when your paying the prices for anything petzl makes


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> yeah pantin for sure, cmi does make one and its like $20 cheaper then the petzl. By the way ankle grab is what your doing when your paying the prices for anything petzl makes



CMI's stay on the rope better than the Petzl! Their 'teeth' are easier on the rope. They are $15 cheaper at Sherrill.


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

Yea that system demonstrated by Kermit the Frog there in that video looks great. Simplicity, and like you said TreeCo, you're always tied into your primary DRT so whatever may happen with the little mechanicals is a moot point, safety wise. 

Does anybody sell bungy stock cordage?

Awesome video. I like Kermit, he's cool!

edit: Kermit's system does NOT require the use of hand ascenders, right? I don't see how they'd help.




TreeCo said:


> This is the best rope walking system I've seen for arboriculture. It's simple, cheap, fast and the climber is always tied in with their traditional climbing system. I'm giving it a try later today! I don't own two pantins so I'll be substituting a gibs for the ascender that gets bungied. PM me for more details if interested.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_GUggGMmM
> 
> ...


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

Yep, watched it several times. The reason I ask about the hand ascenders is because at no point could I *really* see exactly what he was doing with his hands during the climb.




TreeCo said:


> The video explains the system better than I can. Maybe you ought to watch it again.
> 
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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

I did 

Really just trying to determine if "hand jobs" would enehance the system or be completely un-necessary.





TreeCo said:


> Did you have the audio on?
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> /


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

You really have an obsession with taking a very constructive post and destroying it huh....:monkey:




TreeCo said:


> I suggest you stick with what you are familiar with so "hand jobs" is probably your best bet.
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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

I do thank you for video, it's the best one out there that I've seen. That is a great system, especially for green guys like me.

But, you don't need to act like an ass in every post I put up on this forum. I will treat you with respect since you are an old salt with a lot of knowledge that is worth gold to a guy like me regardless of how you act. I am just asking...requesting,that you treat me with some respect too. Deal? 



TreeCo said:


> You asked for a video of ascenders and I posted the best one that I know of. It's a great system and has praise from high places.
> 
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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Yea that system demonstrated by Kermit the Frog there in that video looks great. Simplicity, and like you said TreeCo, you're always tied into your primary DRT so whatever may happen with the little mechanicals is a moot point, safety wise.
> 
> Does anybody sell bungy stock cordage?
> 
> ...



*I use his system - got pix if interested.*


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

Would like to see those pics! Thanks.




SINGLE-JACK said:


> *I use his system - got pix if interested.*


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Would like to see those pics! Thanks.



*Here's my current version of Gerry Beranek's system - works really well just like his vid.*





*CMI foot ascenders. Left re-rigged with bungie and chicken strap added.*





*Right positioned normally.*





*Left positioned at knee level.*





*Bungie from left CMI clipped to biner, between saddle D's.*





*Running part through both CMI ascenders.*





*Complete system - just like walking up the rope - THANKS MR. BERANEK!*

*I can provide more details - if interested.*


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## treemandan (Sep 17, 2009)

Guess what? Got Plas a Gig. How is Sat? Worth the drive to get up and make some more cuts? ................................. and there's fifty bucks in it for ya. Something I would handle in a minute and you could do this. Perfect entry level and you have to help me throw it on the truck. Don't really need a chainsaw.


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Guess what? Got Plas a Gig. How is Sat? Worth the drive to get up and make some more cuts? ................................. and there's fifty bucks in it for ya. Something I would handle in a minute and you could do this. Perfect entry level and you have to help me throw it on the truck. Don't really need a chainsaw.



Think I should be available. I'll send you a PM later. Thanks!


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

Thanks for the pics.

So I see that several people are recommending the CMI over the Petzl Pantin. The CMI stays on the rope a lot better apparently?




SINGLE-JACK said:


> *Here's my current version of Gerry Beranek's system - works really well just like his vid.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tree Pig (Sep 17, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> You asked for a video of ascenders and I posted the best one that I know of. It's a great system and has praise from high places.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not for nothing but isnt that the same video I posted like 5 replies earlier. Come on Treeco try and keep up here.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 17, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Guess what? Got Plas a Gig. How is Sat? Worth the drive to get up and make some more cuts? ................................. and there's fifty bucks in it for ya. Something I would handle in a minute and you could do this. Perfect entry level and you have to help me throw it on the truck. Don't really need a chainsaw.



Nice job Dan nice to see someone helping out the someone learning not to mention tossing them some cash for it.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 17, 2009)

IMHO when you design or set up I would think about ensuring that the left side can be removed and re hooked while on rope. Looking at S-J's set up (which looks good) just releasing that left pantin and letting it hang while working (like in video) would be fine for rec climbing and light trimming. But if your really moving around and swinging taking that pantin to the knee or shin could really suck. Just a though.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Thanks for the pics.
> 
> So I see that several people are recommending the CMI over the Petzl Pantin. The CMI stays on the rope a lot better apparently?



The Petzl foot ascender will come off the rope if a slack loop in the rope drops back through the asecender. Some consider this an asset since they can release the rope by moving their foot in 'just-the-right-way'. But, that means the rope can 'pop' out unexpectedly if you or the rope move wrong. You have to be more aware of how and how not to move with the Petzl.

However, the CMI will not come off the rope unless released by the user. Of course, all ascenders are susceptable to dirt, twiggs, clothing, etc. and will slip or 'drop' the rope. However, I found the CMI to be more worry free, more robustly constructed, cheaper, and it's 'teeth' are less likely to damage the rope.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> IMHO when you design or set up I would think about ensuring that the left side can be removed and re hooked while on rope. Looking at S-J's set up (which looks good) just releasing that left pantin and letting it hang while working (like in video) would be fine for rec climbing and light trimming. But if your really moving around and swinging taking that pantin to the knee or shin could really suck. Just a though.



*Very true (except the "really suck" part, lol). *I've been in some really difficult situations where the knee ascender got in the way. But, it's on a bungee, it has always been fairly easy to flip it out of the way. It's certainly no worse than keeping my lanyard clear and A LOT easier than keeping my hand saw clear. But, if I have a big mess to work around, it takes less than a minute to remove and bag both ascenders, and secure footlock for awhile. 

Another important point to note, is the right ascender. It's good to remove it 'in the heat of battle' because any ascender on the foot can really damage a tree if not really careful.

The Double Line Rope Walker should be considered a very efficient 'climbing aid', only. Once most of the contiuous up part is over, it's easy to bag it and go to work. Most of the time though, when the work is simple and open, it can be left on without any hassle.


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## treemandan (Sep 17, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Nice job Dan nice to see someone helping out the someone learning not to mention tossing them some cash for it.



hell, if I can get the guy to do this for 50 bucks ... well let's say i would charge more.


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

Yea, Dan is the man. Working with a forum member has been a very positive experience. Any other forum members in contact or is this somewhat rare due to geographic location?




Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Nice job Dan nice to see someone helping out the someone learning not to mention tossing them some cash for it.


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## tree MDS (Sep 17, 2009)

Do you have to go to a smaller climbing line with the DLRW or can I still use my safety blue? Probably not by the sounds of it huh??


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## treemandan (Sep 17, 2009)

The job is for a good client who over the years I have brought in other climbers for the soul reason a having another climber on the ground. One was a job that took the guy half a day on a hazard TD which was worth the 300. Then it was major dead a bunch of wide tall oaks for days on end. I did one tree cause I was so bored but the guy took the job which was tough and climbed all the big ones himself. I just had to listen to him grumble and clean up the mess. he did two trees a day for 300. I didn't give him an argument.
What we have to do sat could be posted in the rec forum and I was going to lop it out myself or something like that, just be a couple of sticks to toss on and wave a rake at.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Do you have to go to a smaller climbing line with the DLRW or can I still use my safety blue? Probably not by the sounds of it huh??



Safety Blue is 13mm. I'm using Fire XTC at 13mm. 

I did find the CMI to be just little friendlier on 13mm than the Petzl. 
CMI is spec'd from 9-16mm; Petzl, 11-13mm. (ref. Sherrill) 

So, I think you're good to go.


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## tree MDS (Sep 17, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Safety Blue is 13mm. I'm using Fire XTC at 13mm.
> 
> I did find the CMI to be just little friendlier on 13mm than the Petzl.
> CMI is spec'd from 9-16mm; Petzl, 11-13mm. (ref. Sherrill)
> ...



Sweet! Thanks man!

The reason I was asking is because I have two pretty much brand new 150' SB climb lines - one spliced, and one old school. So I really dont need another just yet - but that walker is an interesting concept... I like it. 

Does anyone know if that PI always hockles like in that vid?? or was that piece just new or something? I was thinking when I get a new rope next time that the PI is already matching the company colors, had my eye on that sinse it came out.


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## tree MDS (Sep 17, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I've never had trouble with the Pantin accidentally coming off of 1/2 inch safety blue. It is easy to kick off on purpose though. It may be that the smaller ropes come off easier accidentally.
> 
> 
> 
> /



Makes sense. Thanks Treeco.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Sweet! Thanks man!
> 
> The reason I was asking is because I have two pretty much brand new 150' SB climb lines - one spliced, and one old school. So I really dont need another just yet - but that walker is an interesting concept... I like it.
> 
> Does anyone know if that PI always hockles like in that vid?? or was that piece just new or something? I was thinking when I get a new rope next time that the PI is already matching the company colors, had my eye on that sinse it came out.



I noticed that, too. It's really hard to get a good view of his hitch in that vid. So, *I'm just guessing*, it could be the way he ties the vt. I don't use a vt, but I've been told if you tie it so one strand is always in contact with the rope it will hockle. I understand it's recommended to alternate the weave portion of the vt so it won't hockle the rope.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 17, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I've never had trouble with the Pantin accidentally coming off of 1/2 inch safety blue. It is though. It may be that the smaller ropes come off easier accidentally.
> /



It does make sense. However, If I remember right, it came off accidentally once in the vid. So, I picked the CMI partly because some people complained about the Petzl coming off and I also like the way the CMI is made. But, like I said; Petzl's _"easy to kick off on purpose"_ could be a real asset.

I doesn't really matter, they both work with the DLRW - pick your favorite - all part of building a personal system.


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## lync (Sep 18, 2009)

Occasionally I teach a climbing class, so I purchased a cmi foot ascender for students to use, because the pantin I have does pop off the rope when students use it. The locking feature does stop the rope from coming out, but also complictes removal from the rope. When you draw your knee to your chest to release the cam there must be zero rope pressure on the ascender or the cam won't open. The pantin takes a little getting used to but you can take it on and off with no hands. There is a hole in the ascnder shell if you want to lock the pantin to the rope you can use a mini beaner behind the cam until you reach your destination. The cmi is built like a brick, in my opinion it is overbuilt for its purpose. It is not used for life support. The pantin is more streamlined and is less cumbersome. Just my 2 cents.

 Corey
P.S. Cmi ultra ascender is the best handled ascender made, while Petzl handles are only marginal.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 19, 2009)

lync said:


> Occasionally I teach a climbing class, so I purchased a cmi foot ascender for students to use, because the pantin I have does pop off the rope when students use it. The locking feature does stop the rope from coming out, but also complictes removal from the rope. When you draw your knee to your chest *to release the cam there must be zero rope pressure on the ascender or the cam won't open. The pantin takes a little getting used to but you can take it on and off with no hands. *There is a hole in the ascnder shell if you want to lock the pantin to the rope you can use a mini beaner behind the cam until you reach your destination. The cmi is built like a brick, in my opinion it is overbuilt for its purpose. It is not used for life support. The pantin is more streamlined and is less cumbersome. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Corey
> P.S. Cmi ultra ascender is the best handled ascender made, while Petzl handles are only marginal.



Question: Isn't it true for ALL cammed ascenders that; _"to release the cam there must be zero rope pressure on the ascender or the cam won't open"?_

Not sure you want to teach your students, but you can release the CMI foot ascender by locking the the cam open with the toe of the other boot.

Anyway, good info post. Excellent choice for students - the CMI's will last longer for the beating students will give them. But, both foot ascenders are good (and bad) for different reasons - whatever fits your style.


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## Plasmech (Sep 19, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Question: Isn't it true for ALL cammed ascenders that; _"to release the cam there must be zero rope pressure on the ascender or the cam won't open"?_
> 
> Not sure you want to teach your students, but you can release the CMI foot ascender by locking the the cam open with the toe of the other boot.
> 
> Anyway, good info post. Excellent choice for students - the CMI's will last longer for the beating students will give them. But, both foot ascenders are good (and bad) for different reasons - whatever fits your style.



After having a Pantin come off the rope several times today, I might go with the CMI. Granted, it was the FIRST time I had ever used it, but unless you have *perfect* form, it's going to come out here and there.


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## tree MDS (Sep 19, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> After having a Pantin come off the rope several times today, I might go with the CMI. Granted, it was the FIRST time I had ever used it, but unless you have *perfect* form, it's going to come out here and there.



Dan! reel in your boy, would ya?? 

This was headed to be a good thread.


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## Plasmech (Sep 19, 2009)

??? It still is a good thread.



tree MDS said:


> Dan! reel in your boy, would ya??
> 
> This was headed to be a good thread.


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## Plasmech (Sep 19, 2009)

You don't have to have 20 years experience in the trees to have an opinion about a simple mechanical device. 

Additionally, since all I've done so far on this forum is ask questions...TAKE from the forum, I really want to try to give something back, even if it's an opinion on a little gadget. I understand that it's unlikely anybody will listen tome, but I still want to contribute a *little* bit.




TreeCo said:


> Hell yes it's still a good thread and even better now that you are doing equipment reviews!
> 
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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 19, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Yea that system demonstrated by Kermit the Frog there in that video looks great. Simplicity, and like you said TreeCo, you're always tied into your primary DRT so whatever may happen with the little mechanicals is a moot point, safety wise.
> 
> *Does anybody sell bungy stock cordage?*
> 
> ...



I occurred to me, no one answered your *bungee *question. If you 'Google' bungee you'll find lots of sources. However, I use the simple and cheap *tarp bungees*. You know, the ones with the little colored ball on the end. You can buy them almost everywhere - home centers, hardware stores, etc. They come in packs of 4 or more. It's good to have some extras for tying up stuff and they do wear out.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Sep 19, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> After having a Pantin come off the rope several times today, I might go with the CMI. Granted, it was the FIRST time I had ever used it, but unless you have *perfect* form, it's going to come out here and there.



:agree2:


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