# Burned out Central Boiler outdoor Wood furnace



## kicohman (Jun 7, 2010)

Hello all, I had purchased a Central Boiler Wood Furnace in 2003 and it is burned out already. The company told me that I must of burned trash in it at one point and it started the corrosion process. I know other owners of Central Boilers and other brands of out door wood furnaces that have had units for over 10 years and they burn tires, telephone poles, and railroad ties (of which I didn't) and theirs are still in good shape. I suspect Central Boiler changed their metal supplier that year and have had to do a lot of warranty work, and they are hiding from something. Has anyone else had simular experiences?


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## Curbside (Jun 7, 2010)

I've got a Central Boiler 7260. I bought mine in 2003 but it was built in 2001. It started leaking this spring and it has been getting worse and worse to the point where I have to add water every couple of days. I called the company and I will be bringing it down to them in the next couple of weeks. Fortunately they are only about an hour and half from where I live. I've followed all their rules with sludge inhibitor and ph levels etc up until the leak started. We'll see how this warranty thing works out. To tell you the truth I'm not expecting much it seems like no matter what you do with warranty these days somehow the companies got it figured to operator abuse or they call it a regular wear item.


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## CrappieKeith (Jun 7, 2010)

There was this guy at a HVAC Htg. show that I was talking to one day. They had this warranty that covered everything.
I asked how they could be so liberal yet make a profit or stay in business.
His response was that their furnaces always failed due to customer abuse.So they never covered any warranty.

Good luck!


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## Slick (Jun 7, 2010)

Please post a name of at least the business if your going to state hearsay like this up as fact..."there was this guy" sure sounds like a guy who sells furnaces stirring up crap.....




CrappieKeith said:


> There was this guy at a HVAC Htg. show that I was talking to one day. They had this warranty that covered everything.
> I asked how they could be so liberal yet make a profit or stay in business.
> His response was that their furnaces always failed due to customer abuse.So they never covered any warranty.
> 
> Good luck!


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## rx7145 (Jun 7, 2010)

Where in Ohio do you live?


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## MNGuns (Jun 7, 2010)

Where are you guy's boilers leaking from...? Seams, top, bottom..?


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## Curbside (Jun 7, 2010)

Mine is leaking somewhere on the face of the unit I am guessing just above the stove opening. The furnace is very low on water but is still leaking so I am thinking near the top of the door opening. When its operational I can see and hear the water evaporting as it heats the door opening flare.


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## kugss (Jun 7, 2010)

Curbside said:


> warranty these days somehow the companies got it figured to operator abuse or they call it a regular wear item.



I got chewwed out one time when i worked at a chevy dealer for replacing a window switch that worked when it wanted to with the customer but worked fine for me on a 50k conversion van


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## MNGuns (Jun 8, 2010)

Curbside said:


> Mine is leaking somewhere on the face of the unit I am guessing just above the stove opening. The furnace is very low on water but is still leaking so I am thinking near the top of the door opening. When its operational I can see and hear the water evaporting as it heats the door opening flare.



I do agree that it should be repaired under warranty, but it does sound as if you are fortunate to have a leak in an area that would be rather easy to access and repair. Best of luck.


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## kicohman (Jun 8, 2010)

Mine is leaking from the sidewalls, up about halfway up. The metal was reduced to less the 1/8" in 6 years. The most frustrating thing is that I had a friend that purchased the same Central Boiler unit on the same day (we bought them together) and his starting leaking in the same location and at almost the same time. The company in no way finds it odd. They actually accused of us of doctoring them to start leaking at the same time. I have been called a liar by on of the VPs of the company. Really unbelievable. So good luck curbside trying to get anything out of them. Good luck!!!


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## garyischofield (Jun 8, 2010)

*Not good*

Dealing with them on warranty problems on my E2300 was frustrating.They couldn't have been more uncooperative.They tell you how it is and you're left to like it or not.The reaction chamber warped and the welds broke.They did get me a new part 6 months later ,announcing that from then on I was on my own claiming the reaction chamber was a customer replacement part.Horsesh-t!


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## MNGuns (Jun 8, 2010)

kicohman said:


> Mine is leaking from the sidewalls, up about halfway up. The metal was reduced to less the 1/8" in 6 years. The most frustrating thing is that I had a friend that purchased the same Central Boiler unit on the same day (we bought them together) and his starting leaking in the same location and at almost the same time. The company in no way finds it odd. They actually accused of us of doctoring them to start leaking at the same time. I have been called a liar by on of the VPs of the company. Really unbelievable. So good luck curbside trying to get anything out of them. Good luck!!!



Was there not any discoloration of the water in the six years you operated it...? I assume your ph and nitrate levels were in spec...? Not meaning to question your experience, just interested in the preventing this in my own unit.


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## CrappieKeith (Jun 8, 2010)

Slick said:


> Please post a name of at least the business if your going to state hearsay like this up as fact..."there was this guy" sure sounds like a guy who sells furnaces stirring up crap.....



....not naming names and it's true about how some companies do not stand up for their customer when it's a defect in the product.
Look at how this thread has gone...already dissatified end users due to a lack of manfacturer responsibility.
Slick it is a fact and if your calling me a liar.....big balls buddy big balls....then again you can say just anything you want online without any responsibility.
You da mang!


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## mtfallsmikey (Jun 8, 2010)

MNGuns said:


> Was there not any discoloration of the water in the six years you operated it...? I assume your ph and nitrate levels were in spec...? Not meaning to question your experience, just interested in the preventing this in my own unit.




Also, very important to get all of the ash out, it can be quite corrosive when it gets moist.

Everything burns out/leaks eventually.


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## Slick (Jun 8, 2010)

"....then again you can say just anything you want online without any responsibility" that's exactly what you just did and you say I have big balls..what a joke....
Your not naming names but we're suppose to believe it's a fact because of what? Cause' you spam your furnaces here on a regular basis? I've frequented alot of furums for many years, I'm not a fan of spammers....spammers who talk smack on competitors are even worse....and I didn't call you a liar, I said back up your statement which you can't or won't so you can call it true if you want but don't think we believe you cause you heard it from "this guy"...what a joke





CrappieKeith said:


> ....not naming names and it's true about how some companies do not stand up for their customer when it's a defect in the product.
> Look at how this thread has gone...already dissatified end users due to a lack of manfacturer responsibility.
> Slick it is a fact and if your calling me a liar.....big balls buddy big balls....then again you can say just anything you want online without any responsibility.
> You da mang!


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## mimilkman1 (Jun 8, 2010)

kicohman said:


> Mine is leaking from the sidewalls, up about halfway up. The metal was reduced to less the 1/8" in 6 years. The most frustrating thing is that I had a friend that purchased the same Central Boiler unit on the same day (we bought them together) and his starting leaking in the same location and at almost the same time. The company in no way finds it odd. They actually accused of us of doctoring them to start leaking at the same time. I have been called a liar by on of the VPs of the company. Really unbelievable. So good luck curbside trying to get anything out of them. Good luck!!!



My buddy has a stove made in the same year I think. His started leaking on the left hand side up by the louvers in the ceiling. He had a dealer come out and inspect and take pictures and send his recommendation in to CB. They are supposed to come and get it soon. I've heard the president is a real :deadhorse:, but if you stand up and tell him whats what you'll get taken care of. 

From what I understand parts are covered, but you have to pay to ship it out to them and pay labor. May end up costing around a couple thousand. 

Kyle


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## MNGuns (Jun 8, 2010)

Though I pray I don't have to do it, I do feel blessed to have the means and knowledge to weld up my own CB if the nee were to arise. I would have to think that proper ph and nitrate control would protect the unit for some time. Perhaps I am wrong.


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## kicohman (Jun 9, 2010)

MNGuns said:


> Was there not any discoloration of the water in the six years you operated it...? I assume your ph and nitrate levels were in spec...? Not meaning to question your experience, just interested in the preventing this in my own unit.



I changed the water every three years as recommended and did not notice the water being rust colored, except for right at first when I open the spigot. I do admit I did not check the ph and nitrate levels like I should, but the leaks started from the firebox and worked there way in. The dealer who tried to repair the leak at first gave me a cut out of the firebox and the water side looked almost perfect. The Company told me though that the water jacket was all pitted. Not sure, the cut out I had looked perfect on the water side.


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## kicohman (Jun 9, 2010)

MNGuns said:


> Though I pray I don't have to do it, I do feel blessed to have the means and knowledge to weld up my own CB if the nee were to arise. I would have to think that proper ph and nitrate control would protect the unit for some time. Perhaps I am wrong.



Be sure to keep the water in check but the real problem was in the firebox. The sidewalls were reduced down to less the 1/8". It was almost impossible to weld. I had considered having my brother in law weld new sidewall plates to the top and bottom of the boiler but elected to send it to the company because I thought they would make it right. In retrospect I should have just kept it at home. I could of had it fixed up for less then $500, instead of the $1600 plus shipping. Oh well, I know what my recommendations will be if anyone ever asks me about outdoor boiler manufacturers.


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## kicohman (Jun 9, 2010)

mimilkman1 said:


> My buddy has a stove made in the same year I think. His started leaking on the left hand side up by the louvers in the ceiling. He had a dealer come out and inspect and take pictures and send his recommendation in to CB. They are supposed to come and get it soon. I've heard the president is a real :deadhorse:, but if you stand up and tell him whats what you'll get taken care of.
> 
> From what I understand parts are covered, but you have to pay to ship it out to them and pay labor. May end up costing around a couple thousand.
> 
> Kyle



Of all the people I talked to, from CB,there was only one person that wasn't't a real jack***. That is what they are doing for me as well, covering parts and I pay labor and the shipping each direction. My complaint is still that I was not given the 100% product to begin with. I still say, based on the fact that two units put into service at the same time leaked at the same time, they used cheaper metal for a period of time and it is causing problems. I believe that when I get this back it will last of 20 years, and it is because they corrected the problem. I was just disappointed because I really felt I was buying the Cadillac of outdoor wood-burners, and I told anyone that asked that the should buy a CB. Maybe it is me ego that is hurt the most of all in this.


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## kicohman (Jun 9, 2010)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Also, very important to get all of the ash out, it can be quite corrosive when it gets moist.
> 
> Everything burns out/leaks eventually.



Ashes were cleaned out regulary and stirred every day to keep them from building up moisture. The ash pan still looked like the day I bought it. The thin metal occurred about half way up the side wall way above the ash line. I realize everything burns out eventually, but not in six years. A indoor wood burner will last better then 20 years.


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## boyland (Jun 9, 2010)

I am curious how you plan to weld the boiler since it is welded on water side only. One reason I never was impressed with their product.


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## gwiley (Jun 9, 2010)

I would imagine that as long as you are careful to get good penetration, maybe grind a bevel in advance that you could weld it fine from inside the firebox.

The trick would be keeping breathable air in the firebox while you work - I am guessing that a positive pressure respirator with a fully enclosed face mask will be necessary. Even OxyAcet should do the trick.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jun 9, 2010)

kicohman said:


> I changed the water every three years as recommended and did not notice the water being rust colored, except for right at first when I open the spigot. I do admit I did not check the ph and nitrate levels like I should, but the leaks started from the firebox and worked there way in. The dealer who tried to repair the leak at first gave me a cut out of the firebox and the water side looked almost perfect. The Company told me though that the water jacket was all pitted. Not sure, the cut out I had looked perfect on the water side.



CB water will be yellowish-colored with the inhibitor added.


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## boyland (Jun 9, 2010)

you are referring to welding in a new piece?
I was wondering about repair not sure how that would work welding on an unwelded side trying to get a leak to stop. Been welding these for a while that would be extremely hard to find and stop IMO.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jun 9, 2010)

boyland said:


> you are referring to welding in a new piece?
> I was wondering about repair not sure how that would work welding on an unwelded side trying to get a leak to stop. Been welding these for a while that would be extremely hard to find and stop IMO.



A few bottles of Bar's Leak would stop it...


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## gwiley (Jun 9, 2010)

boyland said:


> you are referring to welding in a new piece?
> I was wondering about repair not sure how that would work welding on an unwelded side trying to get a leak to stop. Been welding these for a while that would be extremely hard to find and stop IMO.



What process do you use to repair the firebox?


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## mtfallsmikey (Jun 9, 2010)

gwiley said:


> What process do you use to repair the firebox?



I would seal off the 2" vent cap, with a Fernco-type pipe cap, then pressurize with 5 lb. or so air pressure, then use a soap solution in spray bottle, apply to suspect area, if possible.


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## boyland (Jun 9, 2010)

I prefer a burn chamber welded inside and out but that is MO.

I am not sure how I would fix centrals probably try and box in the leak area and weld it the corner seem is the hardest point because you are trying to connect to an unwelded side termination.


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## Curbside (Jun 9, 2010)

Not totally sure but when I spoke with CB it sounded like they replace the water jacket.


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## Iska3 (Jun 10, 2010)

When did you first notice this problem? Did you happen to notice any changes in the past years when you cleaned out your OWB for the summer? 

Did you use your OWB to burn garbage during the summer? I was told to keep my fires above 140º or the inside of the fire box could collect moisture along the walls. Just asking so I maybe I can prevent the same thing from happening with mine. Thanks!!


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## Curbside (Jun 10, 2010)

I never burnt any garbage in the burner. The fheat is set between 175 and 180 which the burner was kept at. Never noticed anything because the inside of the firebox is not leaking. Its the outside of the box somewhere under the spray on insulation.


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## boyland (Jun 10, 2010)

I always figured that spray foam worked like a sealer. Guess that is not always true. If it is on the outside you should be able to scape off the foam and weld it on site with 110 welder that metal is like 10 or 11 gauge does not take a lot of welder to weld it.


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## Iska3 (Jun 10, 2010)

Curbside said:


> I never burnt any garbage in the burner. The fheat is set between 175 and 180 which the burner was kept at. Never noticed anything because the inside of the firebox is not leaking. Its the outside of the box somewhere under the spray on insulation.



Thanks for the Information.


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## Curbside (Jun 11, 2010)

Yes I probably could weld it on site but CB is just over an hour from my place so I'll take it there for warranty repair. The panels will have to come off to expose the insulation and then the insulation will have to be scraped off to find the leak. I am curious if it is weld that cracked or metal fatigue or metal rotted out. If the metal rotted then I think I will need a whole new liner. If its rotten in one place it will be rotten somewhere else.


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## kicohman (Jun 11, 2010)

Iska3 said:


> When did you first notice this problem? Did you happen to notice any changes in the past years when you cleaned out your OWB for the summer?
> 
> Did you use your OWB to burn garbage during the summer? I was told to keep my fires above 140º or the inside of the fire box could collect moisture along the walls. Just asking so I maybe I can prevent the same thing from happening with mine. Thanks!!



My problem was the firebox, I first noticed it when my ashes were saturated. To be honest I did not notice a change from year to year because the inside was creosoted up. I had been told that once you have a good layer of creosote on the inside it was well protected. I did not burn trash in mine in the summer. I was told also that the corrosion could have occurred from having my water temperature set at 160 degrees in fall and spring. But then someone else said that they may only have exasperated the problem. From here on out I will set my water temperature to 185 and leave it there. And since I was told by the company that burning paper in it once could cause this sort of corrosion I will need to find a way to start it in
the Fall without using any paper or cardboard.


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## chugbug (Jun 11, 2010)

How could burning paper make it corrode ? Paper burns pretty hot.


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## Curbside (Jun 11, 2010)

I find it hard to believe paper would cause corrosion. I think most of the corrison will come from the inside the boiler in the water jacket. On mine there is no water inside the burn chamber so I don't think what I burned would have any bearing on the problem. The problem is on the outside so another factor would have to be the problem.


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## kicohman (Jun 14, 2010)

Curbside said:


> I find it hard to believe paper would cause corrosion. I think most of the corrison will come from the inside the boiler in the water jacket. On mine there is no water inside the burn chamber so I don't think what I burned would have any bearing on the problem. The problem is on the outside so another factor would have to be the problem.



The company representatives explained to me that if you burn trash, (like paper and plastic) it mixes with the condensation that occurs inside the burn chamber and creates sulfuric and hydrocloric acid. This in turn corrodes the metal. He said there is a lot of condensation because the water is always cooler then then the inside fire box. The condensation obviously is worse when water temperatures are set too low. I am not sure why they allow a owner to run water temps at 160 F because they made it sound like that is not the right thing to do.


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## boyland (Jun 14, 2010)

I run mine as low as 153 never seen and rust per say.

I would say it has to do with the thin metal. I would expect 11 or 12 gauge to last about 5-10 years no more.


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