# What Is Proper Way To Tie A Bowline? (Not What You Think)



## StihlRockin' (Nov 12, 2014)

*EDIT:* To ensure accuracy of replies and to make sure people understand my question, I am not straight up asking how to tie the bowline. Looks to me I tie it the same as everyone else. Please read below to see if you've thought this before or know the answer. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

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Orig. Post=

Been doing some reviewing and was told to make sure when I make the bowline knot to make the circle in the right direction. One can make it clockwise or counter-clockwise.

I see when I make it clockwise, the tail sits outside the main loop and when done counter, the tail sits within the loop. Since the loop doesn't slip down like a slip know, I don't see any pressure on the tail when it's in the inside.

So what's up? Does going clockwise make the knot more vulnerable to getting too tight?

*StihlRockin'*


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## KenJax Tree (Nov 12, 2014)

Animated arborist knots
http://www.animatedknots.com/indexarborist.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com


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## Philbert (Nov 12, 2014)

Learned about a 'water bowline' following that link! Never saw that before.

Philbert


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## StihlRockin' (Nov 12, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> Animated arborist knots
> http://www.animatedknots.com/indexarborist.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com



I knew about that source, good stuff. Thanks for the reminder. Below is how I tie the knot:

http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlin...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

As the circle is made it goes back onto itself, but counter-clockwise.

My question pertains more to what would happen if the circle is first made/circled/looped in the clockwise fashion?

Since someone told me to go the correct direction, I thought there must be a negative or disadvantage to going clockwise. Both knots look the same to me, but the difference is where the tail ends up.

Curious. Thank you.

*StihlRockin'*


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## Str8six (Nov 13, 2014)

We were told in the fire service that if the tail is on the outside there is a very slight chance that it could slip. Don't know if that's right or not but I always tie it with the tail inside. That's how I was taught.


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## StihlRockin' (Nov 13, 2014)

Str8six said:


> ...Don't know if that's right or not but I always tie it with the tail inside. That's how I was taught.



Me too Str8six. But it wasn't pointed out to me which way the tail ended up, only to make the circle counter-clockwise. Your point is interesting because it gives merit to the idea that there is a right and wrong way for the direction of the loop before the rabbit comes out the hole! LOL! Thank you for your reply. 

P.S. "LOVE that first saw you have listed there as no.#1 the 044. I have 2 of them, with one to be fixed up by a local guy who knows his stuff around saws. Wish I did."

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Any others have ideas, opinions or advice on the subject?

*StihlRockin'*


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 13, 2014)

I was taught that knots are tied the way a right handed guy is to tie them. I had a left handed guy told me he had to learn to tie like he was right handed.
Jeff


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## treebilly (Nov 13, 2014)

I was always told tail on the inside is right and when it's on the outside it's a left handed bowline


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## StihlRockin' (Nov 13, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> I was taught that knots are tied the way a right handed guy is to tie them. I had a left handed guy told me he had to learn to tie like he was right handed.
> Jeff



Interesting. Reminds me that if you're left handed, you are still trained and urged to trigger the chainsaw with your right hand.

Not long ago was looking up on YouTube "how split wood fast" or something similar and found a "healthy" guy, who was wearing an orange t-shirt abusing a Stihl(by literally throwing it to the ground) who ran the saw LEFT-handed. Looked weird to me! He showed how he split wood with a maul and said he searched ALL of YouTube and couldn't find anyone who knew what they were doing. LOL! Yeah, right. I know of 3 guys that caught my attention and respect for the job.

Thanks. Info appreciated.

*StihlRockin'*


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## treebilly (Nov 13, 2014)

Very true Jeff. The world is dominated by right handed everything. I'm pretty sure my first grade teacher said I had the devil in me because I'm lefty.


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## StihlRockin' (Nov 13, 2014)

treebilly said:


> Very true Jeff. The world is dominated by right handed everything. I'm pretty sure my first grade teacher said I had the devil in me because I'm lefty.



And for what purpose did the "teacher" catch you at when you were in the progress of "... the devile in me...", eh, "_lefty_"?

LOL! I think I figured that out and will file that under "Don't need to know" or "Too much information".

You and "billy" have yourselves a good time there.

*StihlRockin'*


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 13, 2014)

I learned how to tie it one handed and that's how I primarily do it now (using a second hand to finish it off). To make the loop with two hands means I have to think about it every time - no muscle memory tying it that way.


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## Philbert (Nov 13, 2014)

I learned to tie it one handed around my waist when I was a Boy Scout. You know, just in case I was hanging off of a cliff with the other hand and someone threw me a rope from a helicopter. Have not had to use that skill yet.

Philbert


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 13, 2014)

Tying it one handed or hanging off a cliff?


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## Philbert (Nov 13, 2014)

Neither!

Philbert


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## woodchuck357 (Nov 15, 2014)

My testing has found no difference in the strength with the tail inside or out and have never been able to get one to slip. Once dressed and loaded I have been unable to get one to come loose even with hundreds of cycles of loading and unloading,


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

Tail on outside, ive always heard it referred to as a "cowboy bowline"
I believe theres an argument somewhere saying its potentially stronger? Wiki maybe.


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## anlrolfe (Feb 24, 2015)

Are you right or left handed? CW CCW is more a function of that.

Are we talking about the working(bitter) end? and whether it loops toward or away from the work??

Knots work on 2-basic principles, friction and clamping. With the bowline some say that clamping force is better if the working end loops around the standing end towards the workpiece.

My two favorite knots are the bowline and the truckers hitch.


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## acer-kid (Mar 1, 2015)

anlrolfe said:


> Are you right or left handed? CW CCW is more a function of that.
> 
> Are we talking about the working(bitter) end? and whether it loops toward or away from the work??
> 
> ...



When you say the bitter end is either "with" or "away" from work.. Are you referring to a yosemite tie off when the tail is "away" from the work?

I was under the impression we were talking about the tail being "inside" the loop of the bowline, or "outside" both resulting in the tail pointing "at the work".


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## TaoTreeClimber (Mar 6, 2015)

I am contemplating whether or not to shake things up by showing the way I was taught to tie a bowline.


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## Knobby57 (Mar 6, 2015)

This topic reminds me of a guy we had at work that we sent to buy a left handed shovel [emoji34]


Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## acer-kid (Mar 6, 2015)

TaoTreeClimber said:


> I am contemplating whether or not to shake things up by showing the way I was taught to tie a bowline.


Doooooo it. I love that stuff.
Guess?: slip knot with the bitter end slipped through, pull tight? Snap bowline?


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## TaoTreeClimber (Mar 6, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Doooooo it. I love that stuff.
> Guess?: slip knot with the bitter end slipped through, pull tight? Snap bowline?



Ding ding ding!!!! We got a winner folks!!! Learned that one in the Army. I dont know how many thousands of push ups I did that day we had a knots class.


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## coolhand850 (Mar 22, 2015)

I have found tying knots is easier for me when I tie them counterclockwise, and I only use a few consistently. However, I do know quite a few. My go to knots are the VT, Blakes, Buntline, Double fish, Anchor, Bowline, Running bowline, alpine butterfly, CLOVE HITCH with two half hitches, overhand knot, ashley stopper, figure 8, zeppelin bend, sheet bend, timber, and cow hitch.


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## TestRigger (Apr 4, 2017)

We here at the Rigstar Training and Testing Center do a lot of break tests. Having the tail of the bowline to the inside or outside does not matter for strength or efficiency of the knot. The reaction is the same. Here is the scientific reason why it's the same strength or have the same average breaking strength. The bites on the bowline cause compression to the inner part of the bowline rope, also there is the d/D ration of the line going around itself, then the rope when pulled is in tension which causes more compression with the two bites. When the rope is in tension it causes the molecules to rub against each other which causes heat within the bites. All of these reactions are the same whether the tail is to the inside or outside of the bowline knot. Tying the tail to the inside or outside does not matter and is a personal preference. Hope this has helped those to better understand the bowline.


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## Philbert (Apr 4, 2017)

Welcome to A. S.!

Philbert


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## ropensaddle (Apr 4, 2017)

I tie them blindfolded more challenging.


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## Philbert (Apr 5, 2017)

I can tie a bowline one-handed. 

Philbert


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## Little Al (Apr 5, 2017)

acer-kid said:


> Tail on outside, ive always heard it referred to as a "cowboy bowline"
> I believe theres an argument somewhere saying its potentially stronger? Wiki maybe.


The bowline tied in the way you describe a " cowboy" was referred to in my youth in my part of the world a " a coggie bowline" coggie was the local slang for left handed I have never found an advantage/disadvantage in having the tail in or out.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 5, 2017)

TestRigger said:


> We here at the Rigstar Training and Testing Center do a lot of break tests. Having the tail of the bowline to the inside or outside does not matter for strength or efficiency of the knot. The reaction is the same. Here is the scientific reason why it's the same strength or have the same average breaking strength. The bites on the bowline cause compression to the inner part of the bowline rope, also there is the d/D ration of the line going around itself, then the rope when pulled is in tension which causes more compression with the two bites. When the rope is in tension it causes the molecules to rub against each other which causes heat within the bites. All of these reactions are the same whether the tail is to the inside or outside of the bowline knot. Tying the tail to the inside or outside does not matter and is a personal preference. Hope this has helped those to better understand the bowline.



Welcome to AS, 
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Apr 5, 2017)

Philbert said:


> I can tie a bowline one-handed.
> 
> Philbert


Blindfolded?


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## Philbert (Apr 5, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> Blindfolded?


Sure. Why not? While humming. 

Philbert


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## ropensaddle (Apr 6, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Sure. Why not? While humming.
> 
> Philbert


Yup me too I practiced it blindfolded. Its a great tool for the newbies that seem to not be able to tie to put on a blindfold tie all the knots and say if a blind man can tie it you should be able


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## ropensaddle (Apr 6, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Sure. Why not? While humming.
> 
> Philbert


But, but, no humming ya gotta plug in ac dc and tie it to tnt i'm dynamite


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