# Okay, seriously need help getting this old stihl running



## Jesse snowden (Jun 21, 2016)

I'm at a loss, got a few hunches, but can't get it running...saw is a stihl 056 av super, electronic ignition

So to date:
Bought the saw for 100 bucks, all beat to ****, burned up cylinder, total loss.
Replaced parts-
Piston
Rings
Rod bearings
Muffler
Spark plug
Rebuilt carb from a shop, was pumping plenty of fuel

Honed the cylinder, it's holding pressure, I think 150 when cold? Can't remember the number, but it doesn't leak.

After the top end rebuild, it wouldn't run for more than 20 minutes. Next, I did the ignition fix that is outlined by foggysail here on the site. Finished the fix yesterday. It ran!!! For about 30 minutes with no bar. Now, after trying to start it today I can't even get a sputter. Fuel is leaking out of the carb, a lot of it. It still gets spark, tested multiple times.

Now my hunches are: either the ignition needs to be advanced/retarded. Or somehow in test firing or reassembly the fuel lines got plugged. Which may explain the fuel pouring out the carb and not even a whisper from the motor.... my brain hurts, any suggestions for troubleshooting?


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## 95custmz (Jun 21, 2016)

If the saw was all beat to he**, preventative maintenance was probably not the PO's top priority. I would probably go ahead and replace the fuel lines because if they are not clogged, they are probably brittle or not far from cracking. Cheap fix and if it does not resolve your problem, at least you can check that off the troubleshooting list.


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## tntatro (Jun 21, 2016)

My first 056 would only start with the L needle at 3/4 turn from stop. At a full turn it wouldn't even pop. It also leaked fuel out the carb but I ran it that way for quite a while. It ran awesome otherwise. I later found that the metering lever was too high. After adjusting it, it would start at 1 turn out and the leaking is gone or at least dramatically reduced. I think with the metering lever being hooked on they maybe tend to bend up. Even the new metering levers in kits tend to be high. Probably not the problem you are having but something to check.


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## BobL (Jun 21, 2016)

Have you done a crankcase pressure test.

Its a long shot but if you have a small leak that is temperature sensitive it may not open up until it gets fully warmed up.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 22, 2016)

tntatro said:


> My first 056 would only start with the L needle at 3/4 turn from stop. At a full turn it wouldn't even pop. It also leaked fuel out the carb but I ran it that way for quite a while. It ran awesome otherwise. I later found that the metering lever was too high. After adjusting it, it would start at 1 turn out and the leaking is gone or at least dramatically reduced. I think with the metering lever being hooked on they maybe tend to bend up. Even the new metering levers in kits tend to be high. Probably not the problem you are having but something to check.




When you say the L needle, you mean the left of the two adjustment screws on the carb right? I think I'll try that tomorrow. That brings up a good question, how do you (also, everyone) setup a carb for its first run? Do you start really lean and slowly work your way up?


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 22, 2016)

BobL said:


> Have you done a crankcase pressure test.
> 
> Its a long shot but if you have a small leak that is temperature sensitive it may not open up until it gets fully warmed up.


I have not, nor do I know how! I figured the compression test would be the only real important one. But I suppose crank case leakage would drastically affect the suction for fuel intake. Thanks for the tip bob still getting used to 2 stroke motors as opposed to 4 stroke vehicles. Totally different and so darn cool!


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## 95custmz (Jun 22, 2016)

You have an "L" and an "H" screw. "L" is the low adjustment screw.


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## wombler (Jun 22, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> That brings up a good question, how do you (also, everyone) setup a carb for its first run? Do you start really lean and slowly work your way up?



Do whatever the manufacturer suggests. That'll almost certainly get it running, even if really badly, so it can warm up and you can start fiddling. In the case of every Stihl I've ever heard of, standard setting is one turn out from firmly seated on both needles.


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## DaveLindsay (Jun 22, 2016)

If you go to the chain saw forum and then go into the stickies section there is a forum dedicated to 051's through to 076's those guys there rebuild them and tinker with them all the time
Regards DaveL


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## tntatro (Jun 22, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> When you say the L needle, you mean the left of the two adjustment screws on the carb right? I think I'll try that tomorrow. That brings up a good question, how do you (also, everyone) setup a carb for its first run? Do you start really lean and slowly work your way up?


On the 056 the L will be on the right. If you clean all the sawdust off you can see there is an H and L next to each one. If all is how it should be then it should start with the screws one turn out from gently seated on a Tillotson carburetor. If you have a Walbro carburetor then the H has to be turned all the way in (gently seated) and kept there or it won't start. You can try different settings on the carburetor, from half a turn out to a turn and a half. Just don't have it wide open if it starts and is set lean on the H. If you adjust the metering lever then you have to take it out to bend it. If you leave it in you might damage the tip of the inlet needle. The part that is forked should be level with the surface.


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## christopher allen sutton (Jun 22, 2016)

you'r tank could be building up pressure causing the needle valve to stick open so make sure the cap vent is working And when first run a new saw try low (factory one and a half)then open it one quarter more 
with the correct mixture of the gas it should smoke a little more than usual now the high as i remember is one turn so go an extra quarter out the idea is to keep everything oiled while breaking it in on a new saw you run these settings for 5 tanks then you lean out (turn to the right) low setting until the when you hit the trigger it reves instantly then the high open saw wide open adjust high in until you get the highest unbroken rpms then back it up till it goes down about 500 rpm always use the stihl oil mix with fuel stabilizer AND NEVER USE ETHANOL (PS.ya'll will like me after ya get to know me)


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 22, 2016)

Well.....as most things like this end up, I believe this....was entirely my fault. Haha I tried messing with all the carb settings and still nothing. Decided to take off the flywheel and check my work on the ignition. A screw had worked its way loose and was stuck to one of the magnets inside the flywheel. I was still getting spark, so I'm hoping putting it all back together with some thread lock will save my ass. Will advise this evening.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 22, 2016)

I believe the saw is now garbage. You can see the faint rectangular outline of the drive shaft where the key used to be attached. I must have sheered it off while pulling the flywheel. I've spent a total of about 300 dollars now on this saw and all its parts. What to do, what to do...


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## BlueRider (Jun 22, 2016)

one thing that


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## tntatro (Jun 22, 2016)

Use a marker and mark just above the flywheel key on that shoulder before the threads. Then when you put the flywheel back on you can line it up with the key slot in the flywheel. You probably didn't put the flywheel on tight enough. You don't need the key, you just need to line it up correctly and tighten it up enough.


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## christopher allen sutton (Jun 22, 2016)

hey do you cut big trees because the 56 is a man killer so i know you'r not cutting fire wood i got a friend thats got a 66 mag i gave him a 56 2 years ago all it needed was a muffler i'll see if i can get it back i'm not in it for the money so don't worry but i don't know what the shipping will be for a 35+pound saw and if i can get the 66 that would be even better but there isn't a saw that can touch the torque of the 56 i believe.


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## tntatro (Jun 22, 2016)

Or you can give that piece of garbage to me.


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## BlueRider (Jun 22, 2016)

those keys are designed to sheer. you need to dig the rest of the key out of the slot in the drive shaft and out of the slot in the flywheel. it will be difficult because it is galled, which is a fancy word for saying it is smeared so hard that it nearly melted to it. All you need is a new key. Either buy one or use key stock or even brass , but don't be tempted to use something hard like stainless. You want it that to be the week point so you don't break something more expensive to fix. 
So yes you were getting a spark but at the wrong point in the stroke. some one suggested lining up the broken parts and using locktite to hold it. It might work but the first time you get a back fire on start up it will spin. Thats probably what did it the first time.

There is an aftermarket remote ignition module that uses the stock triger. This retains the stock timeing and is what I did on my 075. not sure what that is you have .


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## tntatro (Jun 22, 2016)

What ever you do, make sure you put the flywheel on tight enough. Otherwise it will spin again, key or no key.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 23, 2016)

You gentlemen are the web-MD of chainsaws. After a small meltdown and subsequent heavy breathing through a crazy straw to calm down, I used a hacksaw blade to put a small knick in the shaft tip to line them up. SUCCESS!!!!! Spent an hour cutting rounds and tuning the carb. Keep your fingers crossed for me, the maiden voyage of this saw will be slabbing a 3 foot wide black locust that fell in a yard 6 months ago.


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## ILikesEmGreen (Jun 23, 2016)

Jesse, that's awesome that you finally got her going! That's a great saw! To respond to Chris Sutton's comment, the 056 Super is one is the only saws that could keep up with the Poulan 5200. Back to Jesse, i wouldn't mill anything with that saw until you've got about 3-5 tanks through it cutting other stuff easy. Milling is hard on a saw and you want to make sure it's broken in reeeal good first. And run it a little rich when milling. Better safe than sorry. 

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 23, 2016)

ILikesEmGreen said:


> Jesse, that's awesome that you finally got her going! That's a great saw! To respond to Chris Sutton's comment, the 056 Super is one is the only saws that could keep up with the Poulan 5200. Back to Jesse, i wouldn't mill anything with that saw until you've got about 3-5 tanks through it cutting other stuff easy. Milling is hard on a saw and you want to make sure it's broken in reeeal good first. And run it a little rich when milling. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk




Thank you for the tip! I burned through a tank already. But I'll do at least 2 more before I get to milling today. I've noticed that when I tilt the saw on its side it seems to go more rich, from gravity I'm assuming. Kinda a pain in the ass to tune a carb that's facing the ground! Haha but hopefully this saw won't let me screw it up again.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 23, 2016)

christopher allen sutton said:


> hey do you cut big trees because the 56 is a man killer so i know you'r not cutting fire wood i got a friend thats got a 66 mag i gave him a 56 2 years ago all it needed was a muffler i'll see if i can get it back i'm not in it for the money so don't worry but i don't know what the shipping will be for a 35+pound saw and if i can get the 66 that would be even better but there isn't a saw that can touch the torque of the 56 i believe.



That is a very generous offer brother! I don't think you need to do that quite yet. I'll do my best to not defile this 056 anymore, but I will definitely keep that in mind. Where in the world are you?


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## tntatro (Jun 23, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Thank you for the tip! I burned through a tank already. But I'll do at least 2 more before I get to milling today. I've noticed that when I tilt the saw on its side it seems to go more rich, from gravity I'm assuming. Kinda a pain in the ass to tune a carb that's facing the ground! Haha but hopefully this saw won't let me screw it up again.


It might be carburetor adjustments making it rich when you turn it on its side or it could be something else. You should consider figuring out what is causing that and fix it before doing heavy milling with it. Aftermarket oil seals are only around $20 shipped from Germany for that saw. Seals are fairly easy to install if that is what is causing it. If you couldn't get it tuned out then find out what it is. You are too close to having your saw up to par to take chances.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 23, 2016)

tntatro said:


> It might be carburetor adjustments making it rich when you turn it on its side or it could be something else. You should consider figuring out what is causing that and fix it before doing heavy milling with it. Aftermarket oil seals are only around $20 shipped from Germany for that saw. Seals are fairly easy to install if that is what is causing it. If you couldn't get it tuned out then find out what it is. You are too close to having your saw up to par to take chances.


Hmm, I'm not quite following youm where fovthe oil seals come into play with the fuel regulation when on its side?


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## tntatro (Jun 23, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Hmm, I'm not quite following youm where fovthe oil seals come into play with the fuel regulation when on its side?


That is a common symptom of the clutch side oil seal no longer sealing properly. It could be other things though. Does your chain advance when on its side or does the idle slow down?


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## hseII (Jun 23, 2016)

tntatro said:


> That is a common symptom of the clutch side oil seal no longer sealing properly. It could be other things though. Does your chain advance when on its side or does the idle slow down?



Which means possibly an Air leak at your clutch side seal.

This could cause you to score your piston & cylinder potentially ruining your saw.

Get the adjustments figured out and know 100% that your saw does not have an air leak before running it anymore.

It is beyond a horrible feeling to know that you could have prevented ruining a cylinder & piston had you just stopped until you got it fixed.

That is the voice of experience.


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## tntatro (Jun 23, 2016)

Don't worry, it's no big deal to fix a leak if that's what it is. Just takes a little patients to find it. Not a huge expense and well worth doing. Let us know if you got it running right.


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## BlueRider (Jun 24, 2016)

Do the 051 and 056 use the same piston?


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## tntatro (Jun 24, 2016)

BlueRider said:


> Do the 051 and 056 use the same piston?


I've never heard of swapping them. They look much different also. I'm not familiar with the 051.


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## BlueRider (Jun 24, 2016)

They both have the same size bore but the 051 has a longer stroke giving it more torque and a displacement of 89cc. the 051 and 075 share many parts. I was just wondering if Stihl shared parts from other saws too.


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## tntatro (Jun 24, 2016)

As far as I know just the 045/056 can be shared. Also the 056 magnum but the magnum had its own bolt hole pattern for the 56mm cylinder and different bar studs.


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## huskyslinger (Jun 24, 2016)

Imo if it was a crank seal it would get leaner and run like a banchee. And it would be very wise to put a new key in the crank. Especially if you are milling. Keys are cheap and you've had it apart enough you know what your doing it is just a matter of removing broken piece. Good luck my friend


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## rarefish383 (Jun 25, 2016)

What husky said. That's how I found this site. When I turned one of my Super 1050's on it's side it would start to rev up, I knew it was sucking air somewhere. I didn't know that running a 2 stroke lean would burn it up. Melted the rings right into the piston. If the saw speeds up and seems to get more powerful it's leaning out, and melting down. I don't think any carb adjustment will make it change turning it on it's side. Sounds too much like a seal leak, be careful, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Jun 25, 2016)

huskyslinger, I like the big red saw in your avatar, look at my avatar in the post below yours, Joe.


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## tntatro (Jun 26, 2016)

I just found a similar problem on my 045 super. It starts and runs well, but it idles a little high and stalls when turned on its side. I did a pressure test on the fuel line and it didn't hold. The line has lost its elasticity around the fitting. I think I had the carburetor tuned to compensate for the leak and when turned on its side it would stall.


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## christopher allen sutton (Jun 28, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> That is a very generous offer brother! I don't think you need to do that quite yet. I'll do my best to not defile this 056 anymore, but I will definitely keep that in mind. Where in the world are you?


i'm 36 miles outside of chattanooga was that a locust tree? I hated cutting a tree that was hollow with nasty stinkin water in it ( back in the day) have you ever seen one of those small aluminum devices that take the place of you'r points and condenser (I'm just sayin) if all else fails !


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## christopher allen sutton (Jun 28, 2016)

just for the record the first sawi worked on was a 71A poulan the only saw that was as big was a mercury with handle bars on the dumb end of the bar the poulan had a 48 inch bar and a 404 chain and the bar was at least 8 inches wide (back in the day) just for the record!


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## rarefish383 (Jun 28, 2016)

Did your Mercury look like the one in the back row? That's a Disston DA211, one smooth running saw, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Jun 28, 2016)

Oh, it is 180CC's, 90 per cylinder, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Jun 28, 2016)

The two Homelites are Super 1050's. They are 100CC's. The Poulan 71 A is 92.5 CC's, Joe.


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## 95custmz (Jun 28, 2016)

Those are nice. Go big or stay home, huh?


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## christopher allen sutton (Jun 28, 2016)

I am almost computer illeterate or was that illigetimut it took me 20 mins to find a place to post a reply but the poulan was 2 feet long without the bar and 16 inches wide and about12 inches tall please I feel I have to include this almost every time NEVER USE ETHANOL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME Take you'r mix shake it up put some in a quart jar with lid set it over night watch it separate you wouldnt use straight gas in you'r saw so why use grain alcohol that won't stay mixed with petroleum oil test me out every time you run you'r saw on grain alcohol it loses more compression sorry to use this as a platform to reply to you'r mercury (blues) question but i am a saw mech who cares !


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## rarefish383 (Jun 29, 2016)

Christopher, I know we are getting a little off topic here, but, you mentioned a big old Mercury from back in the day. I happen to have one so I posted a pic so others could see it. It's a Disston DA211 chainsaw, with a Mercury engine. In the picture were 2 big old Homelites so I gave the specs on them. Then I added the specs for that big old bear of a Poulan too. I never posted any questions about my Disston, blues or otherwise. I just like BIG saws. I agree about the crap ethanol in fuel. But I'm stuck in MD where it all has Ethanol and I go through about 5 gallons every 2 weeks. I haven't had any saws die from it, but I have changed a lot of fuel lines that melted, Joe.


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## Jesse snowden (Jul 2, 2016)

Hey guys, so not to interupt the current convo...but the compression issue has been resolved. And now there is a NEW issue.

First- turns out red RTV was the culprit. I read that is a good thing to put on the cylinder gasket. The tech at my local shop informed me that it doesn't play well with gasoline. We just swapped out the gasket and it is holding pressure at 150psi. 

New issue- muffler rattled apart. There is about 3/4 inch of pipe between the exhaust flange and the main body of the muffler. That pipe broke in two, completely severing the muffler from the saw. Question: best methods for welding these mufflers? I cant really tell if it is cast iron/ cast steel/stamped steel under all the rust. 

My local tech said that some cheap pot metal (coat hanger) and an acetylene torch is the way to go. Anyone done this?


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## Jesse snowden (Jul 6, 2016)

Ttt


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