# Land clearing business



## JAMES77257

As you can see from my post count, I'm new. I'm a Stihl Gold tech, and manage a saw shop. I've worked with, and on saws all my life. Lately I've been thinking about starting a side business clearing land (easements, site clearing, and thinning).

Someone talk me in/out of this.

Thanks.


----------



## DeAvilaTree

Go for it. Start simple and think your pricing thru


----------



## highpointtree

Who is clearing land these days other than logger's?


----------



## JAMES77257

highpointtree said:


> Who is clearing land these days other than logger's?



There are a few small companies around here that do it, and are always backed up. Small scale jobs for realtors, and new land owners. Maybe a couple acres at the most per job. Most of the land here is really dense. Most new land owners can't even get to their property around here except by foot because the forest is so thick.


----------



## highpointtree

JAMES77257 said:


> There are a few small companies around here that do it, and are always backed up. Small scale jobs for realtors, and new land owners. Maybe a couple acres at the most per job. Most of the land here is really dense. Most new land owners can't even get to their property around here except by foot because the forest is so thick.



well you can buy clean used equipment really cheap now if you look hard. so if there's a demand and you don't mind hard work, then its a great idea. but if you have a piece of land you might want to get an idea of what your future competition would want to clear it. and then see if the number's are worth it. sometimes company's are backed up, cause they are just to darn cheap to begin with.


----------



## JAMES77257

highpointtree said:


> well you can buy clean used equipment really cheap now if you look hard. so if there's a demand and you don't mind hard work, then its a great idea. but if you have a piece of land you might want to get an idea of what your future competition would want to clear it. and then see if the number's are worth it. sometimes company's are backed up, cause they are just to darn cheap to begin with.



What type of equipment would you suggest? Saws are not a prob, I have a few 441's, a 260, and 2 310's. I'm sure I'll need help, but I'm not sure what a fair wage would be. I'll be looking into insurance next week.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## highpointtree

BIG DIFFERENCE from your location to mine. too many variable's to give good advice.


----------



## JAMES77257

highpointtree said:


> BIG DIFFERENCE from your location to mine. too many variable's to give good advice.



I can understand that.

Thanks.


----------



## IcePick

JAMES77257 said:


> As you can see from my post count, I'm new. I'm a Stihl Gold tech, and manage a saw shop. I've worked with, and on saws all my life. Lately I've been thinking about starting a side business clearing land (easements, site clearing, and thinning).
> 
> Someone talk me in/out of this.
> 
> Thanks.



I say go for it man. You got the saws. You're looking into insurance. You're obviously going to need a chipper, and probably a dump truck. Look into used items, unless you have decent credit and ambition to really do this you could get some nice newer stuff. Figure out a company name, look into graphics or images on your pick-ups and equipment, get the appropriate ppe: Hardhats, chaps, gloves, all the essentials. If you're going to do it, go all out.

But first you need to figure out pricing and advertising! What good is all the above mentioned items with no clientele? Good luck!


----------



## JAMES77257

IcePick said:


> I say go for it man. You got the saws. You're looking into insurance. You're obviously going to need a chipper, and probably a dump truck. Look into used items, unless you have decent credit and ambition to really do this you could get some nice newer stuff. Figure out a company name, look into graphics or images on your pick-ups and equipment, get the appropriate ppe: Hardhats, chaps, gloves, all the essentials. If you're going to do it, go all out.
> 
> But first you need to figure out pricing and advertising! What good is all the above mentioned items with no clientele? Good luck!



I'm wanting to start with old equipment. I definately don't want to start this business in debt. New stuff will come if it works out.

Good deals on used dump trucks out there, but no luck with a chipper yet.

Thanks.


----------



## Metals406

James, welcome to Arboristsite. 

Are you in Bonners Ferry?

As far as land clearing (residential) and commercial (easements) you may soon have a lot of competition? Out of work loggers will soon be looking for other work, and tree work is a natural segue for them. . . I've seen it happen here with one of our larger Arborist companies.

This large company makes it's money doing commercial. . . So you may want to look into it while looking at residential. Electric Co-Ops sub out a lot of their easement work. . . As do cities and counties for Boulevards, etc.

You will probably want to look at existing competition as well. . . Ask yourself some questions.

How many companies are already doing this work locally? Are those companies busy? What kind of overhead do I need to start? What will be my operating costs, and are those cost sustainable in the current local market?

One of the most telling answers will be to the question of other local companies having work. If they're already established, and out of work, chances are the new guy in town won't have a snowballs chance in hell.


----------



## JAMES77257

Metals406 said:


> James, welcome to Arboristsite.
> 
> Are you in Bonners Ferry?
> 
> As far as land clearing (residential) and commercial (easements) you may soon have a lot of competition? Out of work loggers will soon be looking for other work, and tree work is a natural segue for them. . . I've seen it happen here with one of our larger Arborist companies.
> 
> This large company makes it's money doing commercial. . . So you may want to look into it while looking at residential. Electric Co-Ops sub out a lot of their easement work. . . As do cities and counties for Boulevards, etc.
> 
> You will probably want to look at existing competition as well. . . Ask yourself some questions.
> 
> How many companies are already doing this work locally? Are those companies busy? What kind of overhead do I need to start? What will be my operating costs, and are those cost sustainable in the current local market?
> 
> One of the most telling answers will be to the question of other local companies having work. If they're already established, and out of work, chances are the new guy in town won't have a snowballs chance in hell.



Not too far off, I'm in Bayview (Lake Pend Oerille). 

There are quite a few clearing businesses around, and they are all backed-up, and expensive (lot's of overhead). That's what gave me this idea. I mainly want to start off with this as a side job (I work 4-10's). I think with a couple of laborers, I can do this.

One thing I need to learn is pricing. Any ideas on that subject?

Where in MT are you?


----------



## Metals406

JAMES77257 said:


> Not too far off, I'm in Bayview (Lake Pend Oerille).
> 
> There are quite a few clearing businesses around, and they are all backed-up, and expensive (lot's of overhead). That's what gave me this idea. I mainly want to start off with this as a side job (I work 4-10's). I think with a couple of laborers, I can do this.
> 
> One thing I need to learn is pricing. Any ideas on that subject?
> 
> Where in MT are you?



I'm up in the Flathead Valley. . .

I know Bayview. . . I've only seen it from afar (from 200). . . The whole area is very nice.

You're correct in your assessment that the Pend Oreille area is thick with timber. . . And rugged too boot. Them mountains just go straight up! LOL

If you know the other companies are booked up, that's good news for you. You're also in a good position as you have another income at the saw shop, and this new venture would be supplementary. The hardest thing will be getting your first few jobs, but if folks know you (small town) it may be easier than otherwise.

Pricing is a tricky one to answer. . . It's kind of a loaded question. There are many, many variables to consider.

First and foremost, you don't want to be known as "That part-timer jerk that underbids for jobs." You're prices must reflect your skill level, but also reflect the going rate or close. It's okay to be cheaper, but it's a fine line.

You'll most likely have less overhead than the other companies, less employees (comp, unemployment, insurance, etc) which will mean you won't "have to" charge as much. You also don't want to charge what the other guys are charging if you don't feel you're up to par with their level of speed, experience, and knowledge.

Here's how I would set it up:

Figure out how you're paying your help. Are they running their own numbers? Meaning they're a sub to you, and have their own personal liability insurance, tools, gear, etc. It's too dangerous to just hire a guy for the weekend, and then a tree smashes his skull in. You'd be held responsible if he didn't have his own ducks in a row. If you're going to hire them as an employee, you need to pay for their comp, unemployment, and wages. If they're a sub, make them show you documentation of their coverage, and make sure it's current. 

Once you figure out help, now you can figure your own insurance. In today's "sue happy" world, insurance is a must. You'll probably want at least 1 million single occurrence with 2 million aggregate. That'll cost you a few thousand a year.

Then we move on to equipment purchases, maintenance, operating costs, etc. Each job must reflect wear and tear on your stuff, fuel, etc. The guys who have been around a few years have this pretty nailed down. From year to year, they pretty much know what their expenditures will be, barring unforeseen catastrophic failures. . . But even those can be somewhat accounted for.

These numbers will give you an idea of what you need to make in aggregate, but not per job. . . Now the fun starts. Most bids start with a few questions. How long will this job take me in hours? What equipment do I need to do it? Can I meet any customer deadlines, and if it's a push, should I charge more? How much liability does the job entail? How much more do I charge for higher liability jobs? These questions (and others) should ballpark you for the bottom line. Now you need to see if you're competitive.

A good way to do it is perhaps befriend a local company. Let him know what your intentions are, and try and get a business relationship going. There are many other businesses locally that we send work to. If we can't handle the work, or if we are too busy, etc. . . We'll call other shops we have a relationship with and give them the job. It's good for them and good for us. . . 

Now, you need to approach the right company so they don't tell you to @#[email protected]#* on the phone. Perhaps a company that frequents your day job? If you already have a business relationship with him, it'll make it easier. If the guy likes you, and he's booked up, he might even throw you a bone?

Lot's of things to think about and consider my friend.


----------



## JAMES77257

Metals406 said:


> I'm up in the Flathead Valley. . .
> 
> I know Bayview. . . I've only seen it from afar (from 200). . . The whole area is very nice.
> 
> You're correct in your assessment that the Pend Oreille area is thick with timber. . . And rugged too boot. Them mountains just go straight up! LOL
> 
> If you know the other companies are booked up, that's good news for you. You're also in a good position as you have another income at the saw shop, and this new venture would be supplementary. The hardest thing will be getting your first few jobs, but if folks know you (small town) it may be easier than otherwise.
> 
> Pricing is a tricky one to answer. . . It's kind of a loaded question. There are many, many variables to consider.
> 
> First and foremost, you don't want to be known as "That part-timer jerk that underbids for jobs." You're prices must reflect your skill level, but also reflect the going rate or close. It's okay to be cheaper, but it's a fine line.
> 
> You'll most likely have less overhead than the other companies, less employees (comp, unemployment, insurance, etc) which will mean you won't "have to" charge as much. You also don't want to charge what the other guys are charging if you don't feel you're up to par with their level of speed, experience, and knowledge.
> 
> Here's how I would set it up:
> 
> Figure out how you're paying your help. Are they running their own numbers? Meaning they're a sub to you, and have their own personal liability insurance, tools, gear, etc. It's too dangerous to just hire a guy for the weekend, and then a tree smashes his skull in. You'd be held responsible if he didn't have his own ducks in a row. If you're going to hire them as an employee, you need to pay for their comp, unemployment, and wages. If they're a sub, make them show you documentation of their coverage, and make sure it's current.
> 
> Once you figure out help, now you can figure your own insurance. In today's "sue happy" world, insurance is a must. You'll probably want at least 1 million single occurrence with 2 million aggregate. That'll cost you a few thousand a year.
> 
> Then we move on to equipment purchases, maintenance, operating costs, etc. Each job must reflect wear and tear on your stuff, fuel, etc. The guys who have been around a few years have this pretty nailed down. From year to year, they pretty much know what their expenditures will be, barring unforeseen catastrophic failures. . . But even those can be somewhat accounted for.
> 
> These numbers will give you an idea of what you need to make in aggregate, but not per job. . . Now the fun starts. Most bids start with a few questions. How long will this job take me in hours? What equipment do I need to do it? Can I meet any customer deadlines, and if it's a push, should I charge more? How much liability does the job entail? How much more do I charge for higher liability jobs? These questions (and others) should ballpark you for the bottom line. Now you need to see if you're competitive.
> 
> A good way to do it is perhaps befriend a local company. Let him know what your intentions are, and try and get a business relationship going. There are many other businesses locally that we send work to. If we can't handle the work, or if we are too busy, etc. . . We'll call other shops we have a relationship with and give them the job. It's good for them and good for us. . .
> 
> Now, you need to approach the right company so they don't tell you to @#[email protected]#* on the phone. Perhaps a company that frequents your day job? If you already have a business relationship with him, it'll make it easier. If the guy likes you, and he's booked up, he might even throw you a bone?
> 
> Lot's of things to think about and consider my friend.



Thanks for all the advice. I think this may work after all.

If you ever get over this way, look me up.

-James.


----------



## treemandan

highpointtree said:


> Who is clearing land these days other than logger's?



All I know is the land clearers around here either closed up or are now doing tree work.


----------



## arborworks1

Skid steer mounted brush cutter is a good invertment. Cut down the trees, get the wood out that you want and mulch the rest. You can find some real good deals on these machines as well. 

They normally gather 150 plus an hour, on my side of the country.


----------

