# Firewood vending machine



## woodspltr (Jun 4, 2010)

Came accross a firewood vending machine in the campground at Sleeping Bear Dunes National Park in Michigan. Does anyone have one of these in operation? Looks like a nice unit, it is mounted on a trailer and looks portable. Seems like a good idea to me.


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## DJ4wd (Jun 4, 2010)

Welcome to AS!
No, I haven't seen one,but I'm curious now. Does it take money and then spit out 6 pieces like a gum ball machine?


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## cnice_37 (Jun 4, 2010)

I thought this was a joke.

But now am intrigued.

Any chance we can see pics?


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## doobie57z (Jun 4, 2010)

http://westcoastwoodchuck.com/


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## woodspltr (Jun 4, 2010)

Took a picture but it is too big to send and I'm not any computer expert on how to resize it. I did find the web site. www.thefirewoodexpress.com. I tried without the "the" before and nothing would come up.


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## mikefw (Jun 4, 2010)

Looked at the web site and it looks pretty good. Called and they say they have a 50 bundle unit in testing for under 10K. Seems like a great idea in the right location.


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## Curlycherry1 (Jun 4, 2010)

Hmmm $10,000 price. Figure 10 year standard depreciation so that is $1,000 per year depreciation. Figuring each bundle of wood has to contribute $1.00 to the cost of the depreciation of the machine and then figure ~20 weeks of time per year for the summer campers to be around buying wood. 1000/20=50 which means you gotta put 50 bundles through one per week to pay for the machine. OUCH!


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## Wood Doctor (Jun 4, 2010)

*Seems rather unfriendly*

Vending machines tend to be unfriendly. Best bet is a good looking dame with a pretty smile and operating a bar that also sells a case of cold beer to go with the bundled firewood. 

That's MHO.


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## doobie57z (Jun 4, 2010)

Cheaper to put a drawer and a money slot in the ice shanty and let the kid man it for the summer. Lock him in. Doorbell for 24 hour service. Be like Cool Hand Luke in the hot box August though...


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## DJ4wd (Jun 4, 2010)

If someone owned like a KOA type setup it would be more of an employee free way of keeping tourist off his case with questions like: where can I buy wood, and why don't you sell it? Of course you would have to have someone cutting and bundling it just so. Yeah I agree,a cute girl with an umbrella and a cooler would be so much easier. :bringit:


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## MNGuns (Jun 4, 2010)

Wood Doctor said:


> Vending machines tend to be unfriendly. Best bet is a good looking dame with a pretty smile and operating a bar that also sells a case of cold beer to go with the bundled firewood.
> 
> That's MHO.



I do agree with this concept. i have bought more than one beer when I was not thirsty because there was a pretty girl serving it. As for vending machines, think bus station locker. Moeny in, key opens gate, you get wood. Simple, yet unfriendly.


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## blackdogon57 (Jun 4, 2010)

Sounds to me like a waste of technology. We can make a vending machine that spits out firewood, we can put a man on the moon, you would think we could find a way to cap an oil well before it kills whats left of our envirroment.


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## Dalmatian90 (Jun 4, 2010)

> Hmmm $10,000 price. Figure 10 year standard depreciation so that is $1,000 per year depreciation. Figuring each bundle of wood has to contribute $1.00 to the cost of the depreciation of the machine and then figure ~20 weeks of time per year for the summer campers to be around buying wood. 1000/20=50 which means you gotta put 50 bundles through one per week to pay for the machine. OUCH!



Another way to think about that...

$5 bundles, you could tolerate a 20% theft rate on a honor system box and still the net the same.

I'm sure there's a place for them, maybe a smaller campground that doesn't have a full-time store / ranger station, which also have modest theft rates, and where you can get a long term contract to allow you cover the cost of the machine.

Thinking back 20 years ago to when I worked a couple seasons for the Conn. State Parks in one of our smaller campgrounds (~55 sites between two nearby locations), probably half of those 20 weeks I think you'd be hard pressed to meet 50 bundles/week...but three weekends each season you'd be racing to keep them full each day.

Guess it comes down to knowing your specific market.


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## woodspltr (Jun 5, 2010)

I have a friend who used to supply ice to one of the bigger State Parks here in Michigan. They went through about 8000 bags a year. I would think that firewood sales would be about the same. At that rate you would pay the machine off pretty fast. Every year the park had trouble keeping a dealer. During the week when it was slower they didn't want to spend the money to staff it, on the weekends they couldn't find people that wanted to work Fri/Sat evening. Using the vending machine would seem to solve those problems.


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## mikefw (Jun 5, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Another way to think about that...
> 
> $5 bundles, you could tolerate a 20% theft rate on a honor system box and still the net the same.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't think that 50 a week would be hard at all. If the park is full on the weekend and 1/2 of the sites have a fire with one bundle each night you are at 50 on just Friday and Saturday. If you sold 10 a day the rest of the week you would have 100 per week or 2000 over 20 weeks. Did the park you work in have a store? or did the campers have to get firewood etc outside the park and bring it in?


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## Curlycherry1 (Jun 5, 2010)

A go-getter person could make money by delivering the wood to the campsites at predetermined times each day on weekends. It would save people the effort of lugging the wood themselves and allow the seller to push selling an extra bundle or two.

I made big bucks as a kid at our cabin by taking vegetable orders the week before and then delivering them on Friday night when we got to our cabin. 2-3 Hours of delivering and I had about $50 of pocket money. That was good money for a 10 year old.


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## Dalmatian90 (Jun 5, 2010)

> If the park is full on the weekend... Did the park you work in have a store?



No store, not even a guard shack.

Only weekends you would be at capacity normally were Memorial Day, July 4th, and Labor Day.

July and August you had decent occupancy during the week as well.

But the early and late season, you might have three or four campers during the week, and a few more weekends. Most of those are experienced campers who would have better sources of firewood then spending $15-25 a night for bundled wood. (Or if you tended some campfires like I have a few hundred...ain't a decent campfire till you're up to 3am watching it burn down, and last wood on was 11  )


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## TFPace (Jun 5, 2010)

*Honor system*

My dad owns a campground and we have used a honor system for many years and it has worked for us. The rack we have measures 18" X 18". What ever the camper can stack inside this opening is his. We cut our wood in 16" lengths.

That dispenser system. I'm certain there are areas that theft is more of an issue than other parks but the pay back for our 100 sight park would be way too long.

Tom


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## Wood Doctor (Jun 5, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> A go-getter person could make money by delivering the wood to the campsites at predetermined times each day on weekends. It would save people the effort of lugging the wood themselves and allow the seller to push selling an extra bundle or two.
> 
> I made big bucks as a kid at our cabin by taking vegetable orders the week before and then delivering them on Friday night when we got to our cabin. 2-3 Hours of delivering and I had about $50 of pocket money. That was good money for a 10 year old.


Great idea, Curly. I would love to deliver a couple of truckloads to a park and just pile it up for say, $300. Then someone has to pay me for the pile and/or distribute it so that the campers can use it from there.

Unfortunately, I can't find anyone who wants to pay me or do that distribution. So, we are back to my bundles containing 6-to-8 logs.


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## woodspltr (Jun 6, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> A go-getter person could make money by delivering the wood to the campsites at predetermined times each day on weekends. It would save people the effort of lugging the wood themselves and allow the seller to push selling an extra bundle or two.
> 
> I made big bucks as a kid at our cabin by taking vegetable orders the week before and then delivering them on Friday night when we got to our cabin. 2-3 Hours of delivering and I had about $50 of pocket money. That was good money for a 10 year old.




I see a couple of problems with that idea. First what time? If it is too early on Friday you miss the people coming for the weekend, if it is too early on Saturday people are still out doing things. If it is too late people are not going to take the chance on you not showing and get it somewhere else. Second, what about during the week? Do those campers do with out? Third, seems you would have to go every time. What if it is raining? Do you go and not sell much or do you not waste your time? If you don't go then no one is going to trust you the next night and already have there wood.

Seems to me that the vending idea fixes a lot of these problems. Campers get the wood then they want, you don't make extra trips and everyone is happy.


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 6, 2010)

I just bought two of them from a guy that has been operating them for about 10 years. I plan on making some changes but felt I had to buy them to take his idea and run with it. He hooked a pager system up that buzzed him every time someone bought a bundle, through that he learned that people usually bought two bundles then three and a single bundle was third on the list. He said on Sat and Sun mornings he would replace 100 bundles in a few of these machines (He had ten). These were State parks in Iowa.

Mine are built into shipping containers with the conveyers mounted on the side so there's room for 10 pallets of bundles beside the conveyers, I should only need to drive a truck for restocking when the pallets run out, otherwise you could ride your bike to restock them. I'm probably going to sell 40 litre bags of wood (about 1.5 cu. ft.) for $10 and do the bagging in the Winter when I have time, then I'll just have to do the stocking in the Summer. We have a lot of Ski condos in this area that might be a Winter business.

I'm planning to put a hooklift setup under mine so I can hire the dumpster guys to move them, a solar panel to charge the 24 volt electronics, and I'm also looking into a system that the candy venders use called a Cantelope system that allows you to track how many bundles were sold, if there was a jamb, time of purchases etc. all available online 24/7. That would be valuable if you had some of these things scattered about, you'd know which ones needed restocking at any given time. 

Good luck to you, the guy in Tahoe has a cool machine but can't get his company off the ground, even if he did they'd be $15 to $20 grand, the trailer ones for 10k look OK to me.


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## woodspltr (Jun 6, 2010)

Did he give you any idea of how big the parks were that used the 100 bundles a day? Trying to get an idea of what the sales would be per campsite. Seems like it would be at least 50% would have a fire each night. I'm sure it would vary with the type of sites (more for a rustic and less for one that had a lot of moter homes).


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 6, 2010)

woodspltr said:


> Did he give you any idea of how big the parks were that used the 100 bundles a day? Trying to get an idea of what the sales would be per campsite. Seems like it would be at least 50% would have a fire each night. I'm sure it would vary with the type of sites (more for a rustic and less for one that had a lot of moter homes).



The park I went to this Winter was about a 100 RV spaces and some tent sites plus the day use crowd. The park wasn't maintained at all in the off season so we had to walk through the snow to look at the vending bin. When we got to it, there was fresh tracks of someone who had trudged through the knee deep snow and bought some wood, he pulled about $50 out of the bill taker just from Winter passers that month. If half of the users in that campground bought the 2 bundle average then the 100 bundles a night use seems about right.

I also talked to a campground host a few weeks ago that sells boxes of firewood for $6 during his business hours. He said they sell a lot of those 1 cubic ft. bundles during the season.


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## mikefw (Jun 7, 2010)

If you had a site that did 100 a night for 24 nights (12 weeks Friday and Saturday) and another 100 for the rest of the week you would sell 4800 bundles a summer. Actually would be more if you included spring and fall. 

10K for the machine at a 1 a bundle pay off gives you two years to pay for the machine. If you got it in early spring it would be paid off in fall of the next year, which sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Sure would beat trying to hire someone to sit there.


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## Wood Doctor (Jun 7, 2010)

*Any Droids Around?*



mikefw said:


> If you had a site that did 100 a night for 24 nights (12 weeks Friday and Saturday) and another 100 for the rest of the week you would sell 4800 bundles a summer. Actually would be more if you included spring and fall.
> 
> 10K for the machine at a 1 a bundle pay off gives you two years to pay for the machine. If you got it in early spring it would be paid off in fall of the next year, which sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Sure would beat trying to hire someone to sit there.


4800 bundles in one spring/summer by one merchant? And who is going to buy all the wrapping materials and wrap up all the bundles the same size?

I can't seem to find any "droids" around here to volunteer.


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 7, 2010)

I bought a bundler from Hudson forest products that is a manual crank instead of electric, so it's probably slower than some of the electric ones, and I can still do a bundle a minute with it for an hour. I don't think I would want to do it all day long but it would be easy to do a hundred bundles and deliver them by 10 oclock on a Saturday morning. Pulling $500 in cash out of the machine seems like a decent reward for a morning or evening shot in the a$$.

Plastic wrap runs .007 cents a foot and uses about 15 foot per bundle so it costs about a dime to wrap a wood bundle or $480 to front the material for a Summers worth of shrink wrap. My droid is the neighbors kid that I'll pay .50/bundle to wrap and load the bundles for me and I'll do the delivery/ collection myself.


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## woodspltr (Jun 8, 2010)

.50 per bundle X 60 hour= $30.00/hr.

Where do I sign up my kid? Heck where do I sign up?


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 8, 2010)

woodspltr said:


> .50 per bundle X 60 hour= $30.00/hr.
> 
> Where do I sign up my kid? Heck where do I sign up?



!!!!! whoa maybe I fouled up the math. I should pay him a quarter to start.


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## mikefw (Jun 10, 2010)

Overall the idea sounds good to me. I you load 50 bundles at a time at $5 you make $250 per trip. The machines calls you when it is running low. If you loaded it once on Friday and once on Saturday and then one more time during the week you are at $750 a week. That would be some real nice pocket change.


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## Dalmatian90 (Jun 10, 2010)

Another thought popped into my head:

I think there's a substantial "regulatory risk" that folks selling wood this way will, within 10 years, be required to be kiln-dried to kill any potential bugs.

Might be worth running the numbers both with and without a kiln to make sure you wouldn't go belly up if required to get a kiln in the future.


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## Curlycherry1 (Jun 10, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Another thought popped into my head:
> 
> I think there's a substantial "regulatory risk" that folks selling wood this way will, within 10 years, be required to be kiln-dried to kill any potential bugs.



Around here kiln dried is becomming the standard. I have been checking the packets of wood I see at KwikiMarts and gas stations and I have seen 10 different suppliers and all of them are "DNR Approved" or kiln dried. I am not sure what DNR Approved means but every package of firewood has a label that says it on the label. A coworker that goes boyscout camping nearly every weekend says they can only bring DNR Approved wood with them.

The local gas stations I frequent says they really blow through the wood during the weekends on good camping days.


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## redprospector (Jun 10, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Another thought popped into my head:
> 
> I think there's a substantial "regulatory risk" that folks selling wood this way will, within 10 years, be required to be kiln-dried to kill any potential bugs.
> 
> Might be worth running the numbers both with and without a kiln to make sure you wouldn't go belly up if required to get a kiln in the future.



If they required the wood to be kiln dried the price would have to go up to compensate for the extra expense. That's one of the reasons that a new pickup truck dosen't cost less than 10 grand anymore. Government regulations.
I think these vending machines are a pretty good idea. The cost of the machine would be covered in short order just by not having to pay someone to sit with the wood & collect money.
Only problem with it here is that the Forest Service own's all the camp grounds and contracts them out to companies to run them. FS takes bids on supplying all of the campgrounds, and it goes pretty cheap (last I checked under $2 a bundle).

Andy


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## treemandan (Jun 10, 2010)

TFPace said:


> My dad owns a campground and we have used a honor system for many years and it has worked for us. The rack we have measures 18" X 18". What ever the camper can stack inside this opening is his. We cut our wood in 16" lengths.
> 
> That dispenser system. I'm certain there are areas that theft is more of an issue than other parks but the pay back for our 100 sight park would be way too long.
> 
> Tom



I agree, I mess with a lot of people but I would NEVER mess with someone who owns a campground... no offense.

This firewood #### has gotten way out of hand. Firewood wrapped in plastic? How droll, how so literally droll. The first time I ever saw one of those machines was back in 1989, I had taken a pretty large dose of LSD and there it was. It chased me up the street and tried to eat me.
Now you might wonder about me but it is I who wonder about people who wrap firewood in plastic and I certainly wonder about the people who would buy it. If you really want to sell firewood why don't you hire Willy Mays Hays to do a commercial for you?


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## MNGuns (Jun 10, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Around here kiln dried is becomming the standard. I have been checking the packets of wood I see at KwikiMarts and gas stations and I have seen 10 different suppliers and all of them are "DNR Approved" or kiln dried. I am not sure what DNR Approved means but every package of firewood has a label that says it on the label. A coworker that goes boyscout camping nearly every weekend says they can only bring DNR Approved wood with them.
> 
> The local gas stations I frequent says they really blow through the wood during the weekends on good camping days.



I looked in to the DNR approved wood program recently here in MN. There is an application on the DNR website. You fill in your info, then check yes or no if you could supply 2000 bundles a year to the local state parks, you also check off all the state parks within 100 miles. Take this down to your local DNR office, they ask about your product, it's source, etc. Give you a pep talk, and rubber stamp your form. You give a copy to any one that buys your wood. I imagine a random site inspection could be expected, but other than that there is no mention of fees or further action. For the time being I have chosen not to participate as I don't care to be on a list available to the public. I prefer to turn my firewood business off and on as I care to.


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 11, 2010)

Just got my vending machines this am, now I just have to start learning how to make them work. http://sawmillexchange.com/Photo_10841.jpg


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## woodspltr (Jun 12, 2010)

Do they take coins? or just paper money?


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 12, 2010)

$1's $2's and $5's presently. I'll probably finish the Summer as is and then convert them to vend bigger bundles for $10's and $20's or credit/debit cards.


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## woodspltr (Jun 14, 2010)

So what sort of return on your investment do you expect? How long to pay them off?


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 14, 2010)

woodspltr said:


> So what sort of return on your investment do you expect? How long to pay them off?



I really don't know, I bought 2 of them to experiment with and if they work I'd like to have 10 or 12 that sell 100 big $10 bundles a wk. on average for the Summer. They could pay themselves off the first year or....watch for my name in the classifieds.


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## mikefw (Jun 14, 2010)

Interested in how you make out. I'm going to go ahead an order one of The Firewood Express units. Have a location where I should sell between 50 and 150 bundles a week year around. If it does what I think then I will get a couple of more.


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## woodspltr (Jun 19, 2010)

Went over and watched the one in the National Park Campground last night. It sold almost 50 bundles in a little over 2 hours. Everyone who was using it liked the idea, seems that last year they never knew if the firewood seller would show up or not.


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## havsawwilltravl (Jun 19, 2010)

woodspltr said:


> Went over and watched the one in the National Park Campground last night. It sold almost 50 bundles in a little over 2 hours. Everyone who was using it liked the idea, seems that last year they never knew if the firewood seller would show up or not.



Did you notice how many bundles they were buying per purchase?


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## woodspltr (Jun 21, 2010)

Most seemed to be one. They are pretty good sized and carrying two would take a good sized guy. Some people drove their car over and whey seemed to bet 2 more often.


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## needwood (Jun 22, 2010)

*That's great"*



wood doctor said:


> vending machines tend to be unfriendly. Best bet is a good looking dame with a pretty smile and operating a bar that also sells a case of cold beer to go with the bundled firewood.
> 
> That's mho.



lol!


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## needwood (Jun 22, 2010)

blackdogon57 said:


> Sounds to me like a waste of technology. We can make a vending machine that spits out firewood, we can put a man on the moon, you would think we could find a way to cap an oil well before it kills whats left of our envirroment.



That reminds me, I need to go cut more wood,ALOT MORE WOOD"


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## havsawwilltravl (Aug 11, 2010)

Got one of mine out this Summer in a good roadside location at a visitor center but it was a dismal failure. It seems that they need to be in a campground to work, people on foot will take the time to figure out what they're looking at. I talked to one campground who admits it's a cool idea but also pointed out that they don't like the idea of their drunk campers having access to firewood at 1am. 

While I'm licking my wounds I'm sandblasting the things so I can paint them up nicer and put some better signage on them. I was frequently asked why I was trying to sell firewood in July, it needs to specifically state that it's full of campwood bundles.

I also had to scrounge up 12 volt sensor switches because the 45 watt solar panels wouldn't keep up with the draw from a 3000 watt inverter running all the time, now it only kicks on when someone approaches the bill changer.

I'm looking for a spot to park them for the Winter now which is a different market altogether but at least I'll have fresh paint, I think a lot of people who've gotten screwed by a soda machine weren't going to shove a $5 bill into a rusty shipping container.

There's my report, I hope some of you others had better luck with yours.


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## whankin2 (Sep 19, 2011)

woodspltr said:


> I have a friend who used to supply ice to one of the bigger State Parks here in Michigan. They went through about 8000 bags a year. I would think that firewood sales would be about the same. At that rate you would pay the machine off pretty fast. Every year the park had trouble keeping a dealer. During the week when it was slower they didn't want to spend the money to staff it, on the weekends they couldn't find people that wanted to work Fri/Sat evening. Using the vending machine would seem to solve those problems.


 
Woodsplitr, what do you think of an Ice Vending Machine at a State Park? Something like this (attached)View attachment 199744
View attachment 199745
that would be available to campers 24/7.


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## woodshax (Jan 24, 2017)

havsawwilltravl said:


> Just got my vending machines this am, now I just have to start learning how to make them work. http://sawmillexchange.com/Photo_10841.jpg




havsawwilltravl......I know this is an extremely old post just wondering how the machines did (are doing).....we are doing a similar thing here in Texas with great results


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## Guswhit (Jan 24, 2017)




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## woodshax (Jan 25, 2017)

Interesting comment Guswhit....I need work on my imogee translations. Looks like havsawilltravl gave up on posting here in April....I guess I will never know how he fared. Oh well, I will keep trolling


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## Guswhit (Jan 25, 2017)

Just sitting on the sidelines eating popcorn waiting for a response. I am interested in these machines, especially the cost.


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## woodshax (Jan 25, 2017)

Ah....that is what I thought but I do not think we will get an answer....from his final posts it looks like he bought the machines and then tried to find a park to place them and ran into some objections. The machines he bought were very expensive and limited in mobility and what they could dispense....There have been a lot of changes in the last 7 years that can make them better, lighter, mobile and cheaper but I do not want to run afoul of the administrators here and identify any non sponsored machinery or business models.....message me and I give you a link


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## Guswhit (Jan 25, 2017)

Can't seem to figure out how to send private messages. I can do the popcorn man, but can't figure that out!


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## woodshax (Jan 25, 2017)

Good point.....can't figure it out either....IM must be in another forum site...... so in hopes of not offending the administrators you can google my posting handle or outdoor vending solutions and see what I am talking about


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 25, 2017)

Click on the members name, then click start a conversation.


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## woodshax (Jan 25, 2017)

thanks NSmaple1...that makes sense


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 25, 2017)

I've been darn busy with bundles this year. I've sold about 500 just so far this month, so around 150/week.

I have the shop which is open during the day and a bin outside. Pics are on my camera inguess, best one I had on my phone...




Big thing I'm trying to figure is how to accept credit cards, like a DIY swiper. I can do them if I'm around, but it's not DIY. I've thought of mounting a cheap tablet in the bin, but I dunno.


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## woodshax (Jun 26, 2017)

Hey Valley, We had talked about this but I keep putting it on the back burner.....If my software developer ever has a spare second I can have him write a simple program to square you away....I would not solve any shrinkage issues but a simple number pad....the customer selects how many bundles they want the program multiplies (and adds tax if appropriate) they swipe their card and go

I use a POS system that is out door rated and the swipe charges are @.5% plus 10 cents for each swipe (credit card and debit) plus $7.95 a month for the back office and processing.....It is 3G telemetry and with power supply costs about #25 plus shipping


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 26, 2017)

$5 ea, buy 4 get one free ($20 for 5).

I use Square, it's 2.75%. I did sign up for EMS, they are 2.25% I think.

Let me know. I looked into a few scanners, but they were $$. I even considered setting up an ATM.

I was thinking of a Kindle Fire ($60) and just having Square open, but there's no way to block out Square so someone couldn't get into the settings.
The setup you are talking about for $25, can it talk to Square?

I do have it so people can pay through my website, but it's yet to be used. I think it's too much of a PITA vs a swiper/scanner... pick QTY, swipe, done.


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## woodshax (Jun 26, 2017)

Sorry,

typo $325 not #25

Your idea would work and there should be a way to lock the screen so they cannot get into it......but being outdoors the Kindle would likely not stand up to the weather


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 26, 2017)

$325 is fine. Just let me know once it's ready. Can it work with Square?
Email.is nate at valleyfirewoodak.com


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## NSMaple1 (Jun 26, 2017)

woodshax said:


> thanks NSmaple1...that makes sense



Sending you one.


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