# Percentage of standing deadwood for a healthy forest?



## WildernessJeep (Nov 10, 2020)

I recently acquired a neighboring 100 acres. It looks like someone has already selectively harvested the valuable wood, with mostly young pines, leaning oaks, or standing deadwood left. There is a heavy undergrowth of yaupon, which I plan to yank from the roots and chip in place. I intend to take out any leaning or unhealthy trees, and anything less than about 8 inches in diameter. That will leave about 80/20 pine and oak with very little undergrowth. My question is how much (if any) standing deadwood should I leave? I understand that snag can be good for the overall health of a forest, but I also realize it can be dangerous and is generally unsightly. Opinions on leaving it in place and how much? The picture is literally the only open area on the property. The rest of it is totally overgrown.


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## ATH (Nov 10, 2020)

I would only remove deadwood where it presents hazards: along roads...if you have a picnic or camping area, etc... otherwise, to me it is a waste of time to remove and reduce wildlife value of the woods.

Couple of thoughts on your plan (with the caveat that I am a forester in the east...never practiced in western forests!):
*I've never been a huge can of ripping things out by the roots because of unnecessary soil disturbance. If it needs to come out (does it all, or just thinned?) cut it and treat stumps if it will sprout back. I know not everybody is a fan of herbicides, but the reality is that small dose of herbicide has less impact than the soil disturbance caused by things being ripped out by the roots.
*Why are you removing everything under 8" are you planning to manage the forests with even aged management (periodic clearcuts). That is the next generation of trees. Also a thinning from below often does little to benefit canopy trees.
*One you take out all of the leaning and unhealthy trees, how much canopy does that leave? Sounds like it could be pretty thin - which will result in a very thick understory. If that is the case, you may want to slow down on some canopy removal until it recovers from the harvest (sounds like it was a high grade if the left the leaning and unhealthy oaks...). More selectively identify which trees will benefit the most from being thinned around. Remove the most problematic trees, but perhaps leave others if they are the "best thing going" in a small area.


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## old CB (Nov 11, 2020)

The "danger" of standing deadwood is quite overstated. Yes, dead limbs & trees fall over time, but unless you spend a lot of time under those dead trees during high winds or snow load their fall will largely be uneventful. Dead trees are part of nature's design. Their value in the woods is mainly twofold, as I see it.

First, as wildlife habitat: snags provide valuable nesting opportunities, and the leafless limbs serve as good perch for large birds. Also, insect life feeding on the trees is a buffet for the lower end of the food chain. Mushrooms, etc. It's all good stuff for your woods.

Second, when that dead growth decays it feeds the ground, sort of like manuring a hay meadow. However, as soon as I say this I realize that you're in western woods (I'm in the Colorado rockies), where decay takes FOREVER. Unlike eastern woods where most downed wood rots over time, in western woods the same stuff just builds up as fuel. So you'll need to balance fuel load on the ground with what might decay. Decay does happen in the west, just at a far slower rate than elsewhere.

As to deadwood being "unsightly," I'd say that belongs to what can be characterized as a "suburban" mindset. Some deadwood is actually quite pretty when observed over time. Look at some of the patterns you get in long-dead white oak for instance.

I would leave in place as much dead wood as you can without raising fire risk too much. When clients want to pretty up their woods I like to point out that "Nature loves a mess."


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## ATH (Nov 11, 2020)

old CB said:


> ....
> When clients want to pretty up their woods I like to point out that "Nature loves a mess."


Good quote!

I also encourage landowners to cut live stuff for firewood instead of deadwood. That improves the forest by getting rid of junk trees - removing dead stuff doesn't do anything to improve the growing conditions of everything else.

(also good points about fire - something I forget too often because we don't have to deal with that much around here.


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## esean (Nov 29, 2020)

Can you get free assistance from state foresters? We can give yo general tips, but you really need professional advice from somebody who can walk your land and understands your local forest type.


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## HumBurner (Dec 26, 2020)

Helena in Trinity County CA? or Montana/another state?


If Trinity Co. CA, especially after the wildfires yall went through (I evaced up to Jct. City from SoHum when the August West broke out) I more understand your desire to remove dead standing. But if there are no structures, and the understory gets thinned/burned, especially along ingress/egress, removing excessive dead material will only hurt the long-term health of your forests.

It also sounds like you want a tree farm more than a healthy forest. The two are, most often, two totally different things. You say the property was logged already. How bad is the damage? Are there slash/jackpot piles everywhere? I would focus more on standing brush and slash piles over dead trees.

What kind of pine? Is there Port Orford Cedar that far East? Madrone? Do you intend to leave huckleberry and other less- or non-volatile greenery?

Another thing to consider is straight, little-competition trees don't necessarily make the best lumber. Competition is healthy and keeps rings tight/wood grain dense. Again, do you know if the property was logged in the 50's, 60's, or 80's? It's likely all these nice straight 8"+ trees are not that old and not that healthy. Just depends on if they grew suppressed under larger trees (look for the stumps) or not.


What's the soil quality/type? How much slope and erosion is there where you plan to harvest in the future? Do you have sudden oak death or other noticeable diseases?


There's a zillion factors, and I'm no forester, just an experienced forest janitor.


Cheers!


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