# Excessive chain stretching?



## Elmer Fudd (Jul 7, 2011)

I have a couple Husqvarna 359 saws with 20 inch bars. I have used 3 lots of chain over the years - Oregon, Husqvarna, and some unknown chain bagged in plain bags I got a good price on from a dealer in the PNW.

I notice that the Husqvarna chain I use now tends to stretch a lot, to the point where I run out of adjustment on the saw. Is this a common problem, or could I be doing something wrong from a technique/maintenance viewpoint? I have a box of stretched chains with life left on them. I have bought a chain breaker/rivet spinner tool to remove a link or two, but have not tried it yet.

The Oregon chain maintenance manual does not address stretching.

Thanks for any insights.


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## SawTroll (Jul 7, 2011)

That problem often is related to an oiler not working properly, or set too lean. I am sure you need to set it at max on a 359 with a 20" bar.


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## K5krawler (Jul 7, 2011)

Or a dirty bar that has a clogged rail and clogged oilier hole. Got to keep that clean on the saw as that can be over looked by many. 

-K5


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## w8ye (Jul 7, 2011)

If you are cutting dry or dusty wood or a lot of wood with rotten centers or with loose dirty bark, you will need more chain oil.


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## SawTroll (Jul 7, 2011)

K5krawler said:


> Or a dirty bar that has a clogged rail and clogged oilier hole. Got to keep that clean on the saw as that can be over looked by many.
> 
> -K5


 


w8ye said:


> If you are cutting dry or dusty wood or a lot of wood with rotten centers or with loose dirty bark, you will need more chain oil.



Surely that is possible, as this is not "normal" at all.


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## Fish (Jul 7, 2011)

You need a new sprocket.


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## Fish (Jul 7, 2011)

But putting the "stretched" chains on your new sprocket will damage it quickly.


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## Hillbilly1 (Jul 7, 2011)

+1 oil, sprocket or both.


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## alderman (Jul 7, 2011)

*What goes on here?*

When a chain stretches is it physically wallowing out the holes on the links or somehow wearing out the pins? I'm not sure if this question makes sense, but I'm just wondering what is actually wearing on the chain that allows it to stretch. Figured you boys and girls might know.

Thanks


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## Fish (Jul 7, 2011)

No real stretch, just wallowing of rivet holes and wear on the bottom of the chain, and gouges in the sprocket.


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## SawTroll (Jul 7, 2011)

Fish said:


> No real stretch, just wallowing of rivet holes and wear on the bottom of the chain, and gouges in the sprocket.


 
You got it right, as usual! :msp_thumbup:


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## Elmer Fudd (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I frequently check to make sure the oiler is working by verifying oil spray off the bar tip when I start up. I have had to clean out clogged oil passages in the bar several times with a paperclip.

On the one saw I am able to immediately look at, the oiler was set on position 2 out of three. The manual says that for a 20 inch bar it should be set on position three, so that was one problem.

The sprocket was also quite worn, and I replaced it with a new one I keep on hand. I read in Oregon's manual today that the sprocket should be replaced every 2 chains, which is a quicker than I would have thought. Also, I think the last time I checked the sprocket, instead of replacing it I merely flipped it over on this saw, thinking (incorrectly?) that the issue was wear on the side of the sprocket that was pushing against the drive links. I guess that would work well with a two chain sprocket change interval. After the first chain, flip the sprocket over, then replace it after the second chain is used up.

I guess that means I should replace the chain now? New sprockets and used chains do not mix well?

Another thing I have not been doing that is recommended in the Oregon manual is soaking new chains in bar oil overnight prior to using.

One problem with this saw is that you need to use a piston stop and a special tool to remove the clutch drum to get at the sprocket, discouraging frequent checks and replacement. I notice that with a new 570 I have that the sprocket replacement is much easier.


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## Anthony_Va. (Jul 7, 2011)

I'd say the sprocket was your main problem. I have seen saws do that with badly worn sprockets. Keep the oiler on max. There's ways to remove the clutch without using a stop but you may not want to try that.

Does the saw have a spur or rim sprocket? If it's a spur, I would convert it to rim. JMO.


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## w8ye (Jul 7, 2011)

I don't think it is a good idea to turn rim sprockets around?


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## Elmer Fudd (Jul 7, 2011)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I'd say the sprocket was your main problem. I have seen saws do that with badly worn sprockets. Keep the oiler on max. There's ways to remove the clutch without using a stop but you may not want to try that.
> 
> Does the saw have a spur or rim sprocket? If it's a spur, I would convert it to rim. JMO.



It's a rim sprocket.


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## troutfisher (Jul 7, 2011)

I've seen the side chain tensioners go bad on 359's. Maybe the chain is fine and the tensioner is stripped or backing off or something.........


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## Elmer Fudd (Jul 7, 2011)

troutfisher said:


> I've seen the side chain tensioners go bad on 359's. Maybe the chain is fine and the tensioner is stripped or backing off or something.........


 
They appear to work fine on both the ones I have. I keep adjusting them until the screw is at the front of the slot in the opening and can't go any further.


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## sbhooper (Jul 8, 2011)

Do not tighten a real hot chain. Let it cool before you tighten it and you will have far less stretch issue.


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## PARTSWOODCHUCK (Jul 8, 2011)

Is your chain sharp? Are You cutting dirty wood?
We used to run into that a lot doing firewood that had been skidded though mud.

The heat generated is enough to stretch a chain a lot after prolonged cutting in those conditions.

We just take a link out.


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## Elmer Fudd (Jul 9, 2011)

PARTSWOODCHUCK said:


> Is your chain sharp? Are You cutting dirty wood?
> We used to run into that a lot doing firewood that had been skidded though mud.
> 
> The heat generated is enough to stretch a chain a lot after prolonged cutting in those conditions.
> ...



I sharpen the chain each tank of fuel. After running the tank dry, I sharpen the chain, then tighten it up. I assume that is enough time for the chain to cool.

The wood I cut is usually clean, consisting of assorted pine and hardwoods that have fallen across dirt roads and firelanes.


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## SawTroll (Jul 9, 2011)

w8ye said:


> I don't think it is a good idea to turn rim sprockets around?


 
It isn't, as the the diameter wear will remain the same.

Ime, they last a bit longer than the "prescribed" 2 chain with short chain, but maybe not with longer chain.


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## pmedic09 (Jul 17, 2011)

Along the lines of this thread, I have a stihl 028 that is stretching chains beyond the adjustment range. The sprocket probably needs to be replaced, and that will be addressed. The chains are always sharp. I hand file between grinder sharpening. I am cutting hardwood and keep the bar out of the dirt as much as possible. I have a 20" bar on it and there is no adjustment to the oiler. Is the bar too long or is my oiler going bad? If so what replacement parts to bring it back? Thanks for the help.


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## kadmon (Jul 18, 2011)

alderman said:


> When a chain stretches is it physically wallowing out the holes on the links or somehow wearing out the pins? I'm not sure if this question makes sense, but I'm just wondering what is actually wearing on the chain that allows it to stretch. Figured you boys and girls might know.
> 
> Thanks


 
What is happening???

Here is what I found years ago when I had my dealership and worked on far far too many saws.

Your tie straps where the inner pins of the rivets that hold the chain together are most likely losing their temper? How? By overheating.

Most chains, except for Stihl , are NOT prelubed. Least most I have ran across. If they are not packaged in plastic? They are likely NOT prelubed. 

So what happens is this. You mount it on the bar and start sawing. Its new chain. Not impregnated through and through with bar oil and so before the saw oiler can feed enough oil to all the inner parts of the chain it right off overheats. This causes loss of temper and now the inner pins and outer plates will start to have slack. 

To test you take the chain off. Grab to tie straps about 4 links apart and jerk it back and forth and see how much clearance(slack) is exhibited. Should be NONE or very very little. 

Now you tighten the slack chain and keep on cutting. It gets more slack and so you keep this up. You tighten one last time and lay the saw down. Done with cutting 
and as it cools off the chain contracts and now it exerts are large pull on the crankshaft. Enough of that and you start to lose you crankcase pressure and therefore the 
carb now is not getting enough pulsing. Hard to start. Why is because the pull on the end of the crankshaft via the clutch causes seals to leak and bearing problems. Tremendous force when the chain starts to contract. Also putting more slack in the chain as well due to that lose of temper. 



So what I started doing , even with new prelubed Stihl and others was put the new chain in a large coffee can and pour enough bar oil to cover chain. ,Then heat it slowly just enough so the oil penetrates throughly. Mount and run...problems usually solved.

Think about it.

Kadmon


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## Fish (Jul 18, 2011)

Wow, we have went from a simple worn out sprocket, to preaching about "presoaking" chains in oil?

I guess I need to take a week off!!!!


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## Fish (Jul 18, 2011)

So is that the new "Arboristsite"?

Someone disagrees with a post, and everyone flees, in order to be "PC"???

Kind of like the weedeaterman/diaphram disagreement.......

So, you are willing to let the thread end on a chain soaking stance??????


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## fredmc (Jul 18, 2011)

Fish said:


> So is that the new "Arboristsite"?
> 
> Someone disagrees with a post, and everyone flees, in order to be "PC"???
> 
> ...


 
Soaking chains in oil is that kinda like marinating?


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## fredmc (Jul 18, 2011)

Fish said:


> So is that the new "Arboristsite"?
> 
> Someone disagrees with a post, and everyone flees, in order to be "PC"???
> 
> ...


 
Whadda ya mean new arborist site? What happened whilst I was gone?


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## 2dogs (Jul 18, 2011)

When I watch a video of someone showing off their cookie saw I am always amazed when the saw is slammed into the log to reduce cutting time. This has to be hard on the chain but maybe doesn't show up because the user is a weekend firewood hack. I will be starting a job after next week's vacation where the crew will be cutting hundreds, maybe 500, small trees per day per saw for a month straight. The job is hot and dirty and the result is much chain stretching. I keep my Granberg tool with me at all times and will take a link out of a chain several times each day. I think this is because of the impact of the chain cutting through one tree and then slamming into the next tree and so on. All the saws have the oiler at the maximum setting and we run about half hard nose bars. I will be using my MS260 Pro and cleaning the crappy air filter 2 or 3 times per day and washing it with Purple Power each night. Pretty much the same with the MS361. I may be a new MS261 because of the better air filter.


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## fredmc (Jul 18, 2011)

2dogs said:


> When I watch a video of someone showing off their cookie saw I am always amazed when the saw is slammed into the log to reduce cutting time. This has to be hard on the chain but maybe doesn't show up because the user is a weekend firewood hack. I will be starting a job after next week's vacation where the crew will be cutting hundreds, maybe 500, small trees per day per saw for a month straight. The job is hot and dirty and the result is much chain stretching. I keep my Granberg tool with me at all times and will take a link out of a chain several times each day. I think this is because of the impact of the chain cutting through one tree and then slamming into the next tree and so on. All the saws have the oiler at the maximum setting and we run about half hard nose bars. I will be using my MS260 Pro and cleaning the crappy air filter 2 or 3 times per day and washing it with Purple Power each night. Pretty much the same with the MS361. I may be a new MS261 because of the better air filter.


 
I got a husky 372 that I can run all day without cleaning the filter. Stihl air filtration must suck.:msp_ohmy:


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## Philbert (Jul 18, 2011)

STHIL claims to pre-stretch their chains. Anyone know how they do it? Run it under tension? 

Philbert


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## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

Philbert said:


> STHIL claims to pre-stretch their chains. Anyone know how they do it? Run it under tension?
> 
> Philbert


 
I see no difference in stretch btw Stihl, Oregon, and WP/Carlton.


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## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

fredmc said:


> I got a husky 372 that I can run all day without cleaning the filter. Stihl air filtration must suck.:msp_ohmy:


 
I can only comment on saws I own but I feel the 394XP has a better filtration system than the MS660 and that the 357XP has a better system than the MS361. The Husqvarna filters stay cleaner and don't allow nearly as much fine sawdust into the carb.

Oops forgot... I used to own a 371XP also. Its filter stayed very clean also.


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## Fish (Jul 19, 2011)

fredmc said:


> Whadda ya mean new arborist site? What happened whilst I was gone?


 
It has turned "politically correct"!!

If some one makes a post in dis-agreement, the members here run and hide!!!!!


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## Mastermind (Jul 19, 2011)

Fish said:


> It has turned "politically correct"!!
> 
> If some one makes a post in dis-agreement, the members here run and hide!!!!!



Hell with that #### Mr. Fisher. I'll argue all night about my presoaked chain on the slammed cookie cutter!!!


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## Philbert (Jul 20, 2011)

Ahhhh . . . back to chain stretch . . . 

P - h - i - l - b - e - r - t


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## Fish (Jul 20, 2011)

Sorry, I just hate for these threads to just drop off while the O.P.'s problem never properly dealt with, newcomers come later and read this
crap and think that we are all "in agreement" just because one reason or another. Or we are just too lazy to press the point.

But, it should be clear, the worn out sprocket is the culprit...

Chain soakers should have their own forum........

Or at least their own "sticky".......

with "tackifier".........


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## pmedic09 (Jul 20, 2011)

Along the lines of this thread, I have a stihl 028 that is stretching chains beyond the adjustment range. The sprocket probably needs to be replaced, and that will be addressed. The chains are always sharp. I hand file between grinder sharpening. I am cutting hardwood and keep the bar out of the dirt as much as possible. I have a 20" bar on it and there is no adjustment to the oiler. Is the bar too long or is my oiler going bad? If so what replacement parts to bring it back? Thanks for the help.


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## Mastermind (Jul 20, 2011)

pmedic09 said:


> Along the lines of this thread, I have a stihl 028 that is stretching chains beyond the adjustment range. The sprocket probably needs to be replaced, and that will be addressed. The chains are always sharp. I hand file between grinder sharpening. I am cutting hardwood and keep the bar out of the dirt as much as possible. I have a 20" bar on it and there is no adjustment to the oiler. Is the bar too long or is my oiler going bad? If so what replacement parts to bring it back? Thanks for the help.


 
In my opinion 20" is too much bar for an 028 even though an 028 with the oiler in good working order puts out enough for that bar. 

The worn out sprocket (especially a spur) will wreck a chain quickly. Another thing that will ruin a chain is continuing to cut after dulling.


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## Philbert (Jul 20, 2011)

*Pressing the point*



Fish said:


> . . . newcomers come later and read this crap and think that we are all "in agreement" just because one reason or another. Or we are just too lazy to press the point.
> 
> But, it should be clear, the worn out sprocket is the culprit...


 
So are you saying that rivets never wear and that holes in tie straps never enlarge ?

That a loop with worn tie straps will have the same internal circumference as one with more metal below the rivets?

That there is no difference in wear over the life of a chain between tie straps and drive links made of higher quality alloys versus Harbor Freight reject metals?

How about during use when the chains sag: according to your rationale, the sprocket must get so hot that it is mushy, allowing the chains to dig in deeper, than regain it's shape when it cools ?!?

In case I am being too subtle for you Fish, I am of the multiple causes conspiracy.

Philbert


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## Fish (Jul 20, 2011)

No, the stretch is the wallowing of the rivets and straps, as well as the bad wear on the drive link bottoms, which is "severely hastened" by the 
worn sprocket as the chain is yanked and pushed by a badly worn sprocket.

Just replacing the sprocket and running the "ruined" chain is a real bad idea, as the bad chain will quickly ruin a new sprocket...

But to merrily chime in that the chain stretch is caused by not 'pre-soaking' makes me angry....

So put on a new chain on a severely worn sprocket, you will have "chain stretch".

Disagree????

Put a new chain on a new sprocket, how will it run????


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## Fish (Jul 20, 2011)

Yes, multiple causes..... Wear, wear, wear.........

Not lack of chain soaking......


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