# Wood Pole Building - How to?



## retoid (Mar 13, 2008)

Hello, 
I am fairly new to milling but my interest in milling is growing day by day.
I currently have a 36" Alaskan Mill and a Husky 2100 CD with a 38" bar for milling.

My question is to you carpenters/woodworkers. I plan on building a wood pole building for shelter from the rain for several reasons, mainly to mill while it rains. I have an area of 25' Wide x 50' Long to build this structure.
I do not have thousands of dollars to go spend on brand new materials. So I was wondering which wood and materials are suitable for what I have planned.

Below is an image of something like what I had planned on building.
Many have told me to just use 4x6 pressure treated posts but I was curious if there is another wood, like Maple which I have access to mill that would work if treated? And would it possible cost less?

Any tips to building something like this would really help. I am here to learn and build this thing by the end of summer.
I live in the Northwest where we get alot of rain, snow and wind.







Thanks


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## zopi (Mar 13, 2008)

google the university of tn agricultural extension...they have a bunch of building plans..

i'm gonna build one later this year for my mill, gonna set 10" cypress trunks in 
concrete footers and use some 2x10 i just got done sawing for headers..roof frame on top..not as big as what you are talking about tho'


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## retoid (Mar 13, 2008)

awesome, thanks.


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## crashagn (Mar 13, 2008)

Check your local lumberyards.. We have a Menards about 18 miles away. They sometimes will have returns on steel roofing.. wrong size or not the correct color. Will be a good discount on the whole pile of it. That and look out for auctions. Another lumberyard had a big ole sale getting rid of all of the older stuff that has been sitting around. We got 14 doors. some steel with frames some without. Brand new closet doors, bifolds.. all for around 80$. Stacks of wood .. 2x4x16 around 200 or so went for about 140$.. Great savings if you have a use for it in the future. Call your local REC or rural electric company, they may have utility poles that they can no longer use


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 13, 2008)

How long do you want it to last?

Personally, i wouldn't build it "without" using pressure treated post... The rest i'd saw out myself.

And don't set the poles in cement. All that does is trap moisture against the post, and make it rot faster.

Rob


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## ropensaddle (Mar 13, 2008)

Newspaper of large town under building materials in classifieds!
The power company but be expecting nothing, because many may be in
front of you! Cedar or cyprus are decay resistant!


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## big daddio (Mar 13, 2008)

'round here we use red cedar or locust, either poles or sawn into 6x6 or so for the posts and bury and tamp them straight into the soil. don't know what you got in wa thats comparable. i'd say you'll save a lot by sawing and salvageing. my wife and me built a barn and didn't have anything in it except tin for the roof and fasteners. all the rest was sawn and scrounged.


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## zopi (Mar 13, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> How long do you want it to last?
> 
> Personally, i wouldn't build it "without" using pressure treated post... The rest i'd saw out myself.
> 
> ...



My bad...I was in a hurry...the cypress will be scarfed onto treated timbers on concrete footers....it's not gonna be very big..

also gonna attempt to timberframe a woodshed..just to see if I can..


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## peter nap (Mar 13, 2008)

I'd recommend against using concrete. I used gravel dust around the poles and larger gravel for a base in the hole. It gives better drainage and if you accidentally spill a little used motor oil around each post, once a year....they will last forever.


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## wdchuck (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm doing the same thing as you this year, to keep stuff out of the weather, and so far the log list has poplar, and aspen, not the greatest but I'll just use thicker dimensions and good lap joints with glue/screws.

Good luck on your project, check the industrial parks for long skids with 3x3 oak runners, I've come across quite a few that way, enough to make good posts.


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## MotorSeven (Mar 14, 2008)

I wouldn't put maple in ground, but you could use it for everything else. Crash is spot-on, get old power poles from your power co.....they will last forever.

RD


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## JackD_ME (Mar 14, 2008)

zopi said:


> My bad...I was in a hurry...the cypress will be scarfed onto treated timbers on concrete footers....it's not gonna be very big..
> 
> also gonna attempt to timberframe a woodshed..just to see if I can..




I'm sorry, did you say "scarfed"? And "ON concrete footers"?
First of all, the whole idea of a pole barn is to use "poles" that are set in the ground to hold up a roof . . . not parts & pieces.
And if you build a KITE this big, it will fly! I've seen it!

Call around, drive around, talk to your mailman & UPS driver...FIND some phone/electric poles like what is pictured. Around here they run $2 per foot for real good used ones.
If you grease and tarpaper the end going into the ground, they will not rot or be moved by the frost.
Drill & bolt your timber to the pole tops. And even with the poles IN the ground, high winds create incredible wind loads on a high roof of over 1300square feet.

If you plan right and spend some money upfront, you will never have to worry about the building!


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 14, 2008)

peter nap said:


> I'd recommend against using concrete. I used gravel dust around the poles and larger gravel for a base in the hole. It gives better drainage and if you accidentally spill a little used motor oil around each post, once a year....they will last forever.



That's what my neighbor thought. Less than 15 years later a wind storm blew it over on his sawmill. After looking the post over, you could see they were rotting.

Guess what he builds with now???

Rob


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## clawmute (Mar 14, 2008)

Method 1

You may save a little by pouring some concrete into drilled or hand dug round holes - with rebar -. Set the tops of the concrete piers at the same level - all above grade level of course, in line etc.

Anchor your untreated self milled posts to the tops of the piers with angle iron clip angles that are expansion bolted to the concrete.

Another method would be:

1. dig post holes and set short sections of pressure treated posts into them.
2. pour a bag or so of sackcrete mix into the holes around the posts. Add water and us a pipe or whatever to somewhat mix up the sackcrete right in the hole.
3. set all your "stub" posts to a string line and stake brace them in place, plumbed of course.
4. after concrete sets up saw all posts off at the same level.
5. Frame your structure to the tops of these pressure treated stub posts. You cut down on pressure treated material, but add expense of sackcrete. Do a cost comparison - it may be a swap out.

The bottom line is there is no free lunch. You can save money on almost anything, but you substitute your sweat.


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## Burvol (Mar 14, 2008)

retoid said:


> Hello,
> I am fairly new to milling but my interest in milling is growing day by day.
> I currently have a 36" Alaskan Mill and a Husky 2100 CD with a 38" bar for milling.
> 
> ...



I remember B-Ham, I use to live in Fairhaven for three years, you have a lot of maple in the hills, I remember. The picture used some really nice power poles, all straight and flawless. The only thing you will find that good that does not need a lot of work other than peeling the bark off is Doug FIr. I have built a few log buildings, and the design they used is a popular choice. I used all premo Dougies that were standing dead with just a few needles left on them when I fell them. They all look good and have been there since the fall of 04. Your wing and ridge beams should be the best, the verts can be a little less desirable, but level. Good Luck


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## Burvol (Mar 14, 2008)

retoid said:


> Hello,
> I am fairly new to milling but my interest in milling is growing day by day.
> I currently have a 36" Alaskan Mill and a Husky 2100 CD with a 38" bar for milling.
> 
> ...



Generalsteel.com


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## farmer (Mar 14, 2008)

Poles rot right at ground level. I think creosote round poles hold up better than green [cca or the new copper based] CCA [arsenic] holds up better than copper

If you have frost in winter don't put concrete in a rough dug hole-it will 
heave. It needs a sonotube or other round smooth form

I don't think concrete around poles is necessary if you set poles in deep 
enough. I dump a bag in the hole before the post for a base.


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## retoid (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks for all the great replies guys. It is giving me some more things to think about. 

My father was left with 20 extra backs of sackrete and has given them to me. My original idea was to use pressure treated wood if I could afford it and then dig holes and poor sackcrete into them but keeping the pole's above ground.

Quick drawing of what I was thinking:





Our weather can get harsh. Where I live though it's mainly rain and wind. We do get snow and frost in the winter, would it be a bad idea to burry a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with sackcrete and use that?

I am going to keep looking around for used or older materials to cut my cost down. And go from there.


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## MJR (Mar 14, 2008)

As long as your bucket is at least 3 feet deep, 4 is better. If you do not have the change in your pocket to do this project right put it off till you do. Mill as much of the maple as possible and sell it next spring. With this money build your barn right. You will thank your self in a few years. Best of luck.


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## retoid (Mar 14, 2008)

MJR said:


> As long as your bucket is at least 3 feet deep, 4 is better. If you do not have the change in your pocket to do this project right put it off till you do. Mill as much of the maple as possible and sell it next spring. With this money build your barn right. You will thank your self in a few years. Best of luck.



Thanks, this was also a thought of mine. I have also been turning the smaller and odd shaped fallen maples into firewood to sell.


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## fourustircom (Mar 14, 2008)

*To concrete or not to concrete...*

The pole barn book I found said to add a "collar" or "necklace" of concrete at about the 2' level of a 4' hole. Depending on the soil, a "punch pad" is used at the bottom of the hole to set the pole on.

Thanks!


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## retoid (Mar 14, 2008)

What is a punch pad? Is it the 2' collar?


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## fourustircom (Mar 14, 2008)

*Punch Pad*

No, it appears to be a flat rock or concrete in the bottom of the hole to set the post on. In some soils with a heavy building, the poles will have a tendancy to sink some.


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## retoid (Mar 14, 2008)

Is this what you mean?


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 14, 2008)

Do not set the pole in cement, even though that's the way it "use to be" done... It's been proven that water will get between the pole and the cement and cause early rot... The cement holds the water just like a bucket would.

You dig the hole, (code here is 48" deep) set a flat cement pad in the bottom of the hole for the pole to sit on. (make them with your sackcrete instead of buying post pads) Then set the pole and back fill it tamping it into place. You want the water to beable to get away from the pole, so the pole will last the longest it can.

BTW, i cut the bottom 3" off a plastic pail, and use it for a "form" to make post pads. Every time i have left over cement on a job, i make post pads out of it.

Rob


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## retoid (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks again for all your help guys, I appreciate it alot!
Sorry if I am repeating myself or not catching something you are trying to explain. I want to make sure I understand fully so I can do this correctly the first time around.

Take a look at my diagram below, does everything look correct?


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## farmer (Mar 14, 2008)

If you pour a concrete column it needs to be smooth sided for its full 40 inches. Sonotubes are cardboard forms made for this purpose. Homeo Depot or a better building supply store should be able to get them. They shouldn't be that expensive. If you could find used 15 gallon drums [plastic] that would work. Industrial cleaning fluids come in them. Try cleaning service, they might give them to you. 5 gallon pails you would need about 3 in a row. Sounds more of a PIA than it would be worth.


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## retoid (Mar 14, 2008)

farmer said:


> If you pour a concrete column it needs to be smooth sided for its full 40 inches. Sonotubes are cardboard forms made for this purpose. Homeo Depot or a better building supply store should be able to get them. They shouldn't be that expensive. If you could find used 15 gallon drums [plastic] that would work. Industrial cleaning fluids come in them. Try cleaning service, they might give them to you. 5 gallon pails you would need about 3 in a row. Sounds more of a PIA than it would be worth.



Thanks I appreciate that. I will definitely contact some local cleaning services. Great idea.


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## SpiralAcacia (Mar 15, 2008)

*Tamping around the poles instead of using cement*

Putting some old elec. company poles into the ground, we dug 4' holes but kept them as narrow as possible. About 4" gap left between the pole and the edges of the hole.
Pole goes in, temporary support sticks screwed to them to keep'em level.
Some dirt & small rocks is then put back in and tamped good with a 2X4 beam or anything heavy enough to compact the dirt. Repeat untill filled.
Primitive, takes some time, works very well.
Not for the impatient.

There was a wrong placing of one pole, had a tough time taking it out of the ground with a front loader tractor.

Just another idea.
Good luck


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## retired redneck (Mar 15, 2008)

*Tar*

I set treated 4x4s in hole 4ft deep with broken pices of concrete blocks in bottom to stop settling. coated end of 4x4 with liquid tar to 6" above ground. did this 30yrs ago, post still as good as new.


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## Sawmill (Mar 15, 2008)

Last summer I received 20 or 30 electric poles that were 24 to 28 inches dia. on the big end and 40 to 60 foot long. They were western red cedar. The oldest one was put in the ground in 1943, the poles were tagged on the bottom with a date and length and type of wood. From the ground level to the bottom of the pole it was rapped with tared felt like you use on roofs. When I took it off the pole to saw it the pole under the felt looked like it was cut yesterday, no cracks or rot. These poles make very good lumber as they don't looked to have been treated. On the picture on the building you should put bracing from each pole up to give it more strength in the wind. that is a Nice looking building. On the posts in Mich you cannot have cement around the pole but the pole must be sitting on cement. You can just throw a bag in the hole before you set the post. I went thru this last summer when I built mine. I sawed all the material except the trusses for a 40 x60 barn.


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## retoid (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, I called the local contact for our electrical company twice and left voice mails. Haven't heard anything back yet and I doubt I ever will until I catch the guy answering his phone.

I won't give up though.


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