# Cloning OG redwoods???



## twochains (Feb 7, 2013)

Ok, I just watched on T.V. where in Oregon, there is a guy cloning the giant redwoods. So...sorry for my ignorance but I don't really get it. Here are a few points that strike me right off the bat.

#1. Do the redwoods not drop seed from the same trees they are cloning?
#2. Would the genetics not be exactly the same (seed vs. sprig clone)? 
#3. Would the clone not be "quicker" growth and also be dwarfed by the cloning process. Such as a dwarf apple tree is a clone, and they nowhere reach their spawn parents height. Plus they produce fruit several years quicker than a apple tree grown from seed. So, that to me says maturity is reached quicker enabling an apple tree to produce fruit earlier, causing dwarfism due to the tree "running it's course", sooner?

I don't know...somehow I am just not getting it. I always figured they reproduced by seed?? I don't see the need to plant a clone. Old Growth is just that...Old Growth, it will take 500 years for anybody to figure out if it worked! And who is to say the seed planted tree would be just as big??? I just am having a hard time grasping their intentions.


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## Upper tree (Feb 11, 2013)

*Cloning*

Yes you can use seeds but this is then a product from male and female..........:msp_wub: And one may or may not be so strong or geneticaly different from the parents good or bad. But using the steam cell of a very strong tall redwood would mean that the redwood is the same as the tree the steam cell was taken from and therefore, hopfully a very big redwood a copy of the donated steam cell tree. It is in fact a cutting taken and rooted but a rooted cutting can also be geneticaly different due to were it was taken from the tree or the branch was .....different geneticaly. Steam cells can and are more reliable as copy from the donater.
I think its great news that people are at least planting these great Trees and makeing new forest that will help our planet after what we have and keep doing to it. I am experimenting with these trees and finding lots of great thing in the production of new trees or transplanting them. It is also interesting in there growth habits.
Ok must go have to work in office:msp_sad:


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## Iron Head (Feb 13, 2013)

Not true.
A cutting has the exact genetic as the donor plant from top to bottom.
Nearly 100% of our Leyland Cypress came from one or two tree imported from England years ago.


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## RandyMac (Feb 13, 2013)

Sempervirens pretty much clone themselves, when felled, burned, buried whatever, the tree will send up sprouts with vigor. It is fairly rare to actually kill a Sempervirens.


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## Iron Head (Feb 15, 2013)

And so does the Western Red Cedar.
Lower hanging branches touching the ground or covered up with debris will root and form a clone, ie. layering.


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## Upper tree (Feb 17, 2013)

*Clone or not a clone that is the question*

A clone is a copy of the original, That is a 100% copy, a cutting or layering can be 100%, but the cutting or layered branch or new growth from the root stock may be compromised. Darwin was not completely wrong genetic mutations can and will happen its evolution. If one looks at the Japanese maple family for example most are sports from a mother plant then grafted on a rootstock which also changes the plants growth rate and habit. I have seen on many Maples "true" sorts sports that occur latter in the branches development.
The same thing can happen with all plans. Reproduction, is evolution and survival of the fittest for its environment. That is why they are producing clones from one steam cell this is more likely to be true of its parent.:msp_scared: Maybe we should not play around with Gods creations it has not worked very well in the past but if it means that the redwood forest are thought about and they can be used by man for pleasure and business then we all may be better of in the end.:msp_biggrin:


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## TreeGuyHR (Feb 17, 2013)

Upper tree said:


> Yes you can use seeds but this is then a product from male and female..........:msp_wub: And one may or may not be so strong or geneticaly different from the parents good or bad. But using the steam cell of a very strong tall redwood would mean that the redwood is the same as the tree the steam cell was taken from and therefore, hopfully a very big redwood a copy of the donated steam cell tree. It is in fact a cutting taken and rooted but a rooted cutting can also be geneticaly different due to were it was taken from the tree or the branch was .....different geneticaly. Steam cells can and are more reliable as copy from the donater.
> I think its great news that people are at least planting these great Trees and makeing new forest that will help our planet after what we have and keep doing to it. I am experimenting with these trees and finding lots of great thing in the production of new trees or transplanting them. It is also interesting in there growth habits.
> Ok must go have to work in office:msp_sad:



True, genetic differences can "creep in" to an old tree with multiple long-lived trunks. Given several thousand years, the mother cell at the tip of the trunk (or even a long-lived branch, which often become trunks in very old conifer trees) can produce a mutation during division, and therefore some genetic difference from the rest of the tree; if this survives and is expressed, a different growth form or other character could be evident. 

So, why clone the redwoods? I believe that there is more than one nation-wide project to clone large old individuals of many tree species, the idea being that the trees may have characteristics that are worth propagating, especially given all the environmental disturbance we humans cause. There is also probably a bit of "big tree fever" or whatever you call it, that draws people to big trees. I know several people who are obsessed with it.


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## Iron Head (Feb 17, 2013)

Today I cloned several hundred cedar, grape, apple, pear, and persimmon rootstock.
It is a very simple process but timing and a good rooting hormone are the keys to successful percentages.


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## M.D. Vaden (Feb 25, 2013)

Sounds like the video was probably the Archangel ancient tree archive outfit.

In some respects, it's experimental. But seeds are not like clones. Others already posted about cloning. The one thing I'll interject is that a tree's seed is not really from itself. The pollen could have come from itself, the redwood next to it, or the redwood a mile away.

One seed experiment this brings to mind, was albino redwood related. Lots of seeds from one albino, but a bunch of different seedlings.

I posted the notes on this page ...

*Link >* About Albino Redwood Trees ~ M. D. Vaden

It will be interesting to hear about measurements of these trees in the next 10 years or so, to see how they start out.


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## Oldknottired (Mar 2, 2013)

twochains said:


> #3. Would the clone not be "quicker" growth and also be dwarfed by the cloning process. Such as a dwarf apple tree is a clone, and they nowhere reach their spawn parents height. Plus they produce fruit several years quicker than a apple tree grown from seed. So, that to me says maturity is reached quicker enabling an apple tree to produce fruit earlier, causing dwarfism due to the tree "running it's course", sooner?



I'm pretty sure apple trees are dwarf or semi-dwarf because of the _*grafting*_ of the rootstock to the cloned top. I think a dwarf has two grafts (3 sections) while a semidwarf has 1 graft (just the 2 sections). I don't think using cuttings (cloning) to start a plant has any effect on size or time to maturity.


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## 2dumb4words (Mar 2, 2013)

Oldknottired said:


> . I don't think using cuttings (cloning) to start a plant has any effect on size or time to maturity.



While true of most woody stemmed plants, some slower maturing "soft" stemmed plants are able to reach maturity faster by skipping the juvenile growth stage. An example would be air layering, whereby mature plants are rooted directly on the parent.


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