# Dingos and such



## Plasmech (Jan 18, 2010)

So I've got several jobs lines up that require moving a lot of wood around on the ground some considerable distances. So far, what my helper and I have been doing is bucking everything into firewood sized pieces and either backing a pickup in as close as we can or if we're less fortunate with access using a wheel barrow and in some extreme cases carrying wood out by hand. As one can imagine, this gets old real quick and is very limiting.

A Dingo would be great, but I am nowhere near ready to make that kind of investment. My question is, what type of device or machine bridges the gap between moving stuff by hand or in a wheel barrow/pickup and having a Dingo? Is there some sort of inexpensive motorized pulling device to be had? I've been pondering this quite a bit. I even thought of a quad however I don't see that being very practical and certainly far from professional.


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 18, 2010)

hand trucks (with inflatable tires). they are now made oversized but have always been better than wheelbarrows. 

what the majority of guys use who aren't mechanized. get a laborer or two just to move the wood while the climber and ground man keep making messes. now you're redneck automated.


http://www.sherrilltree.com/Professional-Gear/Log-Movers


----------



## trimmmed (Jan 18, 2010)

A "Free wood, you haul" ad in Craigslist will work. If you have a Freecycle list in your area that will work also. Not for every situ, I know, but valuable in some.


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 18, 2010)

*Dingos or ?*

www.littlehelpercart.com check this out.


----------



## SINGLE-JACK (Jan 18, 2010)

*LogRite* (video)


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 18, 2010)

*moterized log hauler*

Also can haul limbs in more open spaces not the narrow gates. The manufacturer of these unit have and operate a tree company. Very simple to use unit.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 18, 2010)

Saw Dust Smoken said:


> www.littlehelpercart.com check this out.



These are great. I am surprised i don't see more of them. You could load a low trailer like 55 gal drums. even without a motor a cheap handtruck with good big tires can load a low trailer.


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Jan 18, 2010)

Look for used dingos too. Some guys use toro power wagons too!. Good luck.... Mike


----------



## kennertree (Jan 18, 2010)

Just rent a mini-skid. They rent around here for $130 a day, get the forks on it or a grapple if they have one and you can move alot of wood quickly.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 18, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I found a DR Powerwagon on Craigslist for $250. It's a great machine and holds quite a bit in it's dump bed. It's amazing the work it saves moving stump shavings, firewood, rakings, digging and transplanting plants, etc. No lawn impact at all.
> 
> http://www.drpower.com/twoStepInqui...n=4775879495&gclid=CNHl74Sgr58CFRienAod1lCkfQ



That DR Wagon looks pretty slick. I could see something like that getting me off the ground...


----------



## Wishie22 (Jan 19, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> That DR Wagon looks pretty slick. I could see something like that getting me off the ground...



Maybe if it had a lift-gate, :monkey:.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 19, 2010)

Wishie22 said:


> Maybe if it had a lift-gate, :monkey:.



???


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 19, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> Well it's no mini skid for sure so the lifting does have to be by hand(I have a mini skid). I spend the day using mine transplanting plants from someone's old house...to their new house. Lots of hand digging and lifting but it sure helped getting plants to and from the dump trailer and around the yard.



What kind of mini skid do you have? Did you get it used or new?


----------



## Wishie22 (Jan 19, 2010)

Ok, ok, ok, JK'ing...play on words "help me off the ground" if he got that I though it may help as an add on for the rounds Plas would be moving.

Seriously is the box stationary or is it dump? OH ill just look up dr wagon.


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm getting a kick out of this thread, plas,  you're in the biz now less than a year and ready to buy equipment, but you are going to miss out on a valuable lesson. :dunno:

buy some of these and move wood to the truck with em, and when you do
finally buy a loader, you will really appreciate it..........

how a lotta guys got started, and many still do it.
I still have a couple stashed away at my parents house. just need 2 guys to drive em.







http://www.handtrucks.com/hand-trucks/standard-hand-trucks/harperphandlehandtruck.cfm


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Jan 20, 2010)

We used to roll and man handle the big rounds. Then we would all lift them or we would push them up ramps into the dump truck. Everyone needs to experience that fun before they get a machine like a dingo so they appreciate it. I wish my guys had the fun of raking chips out of the back of a ford ranger so they appreciated a dump truck. First time I pressed that button to dump it was heavenly. They do love the dingo though.... Mike


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 20, 2010)

Mikecutstrees said:


> We used to roll and man handle the big rounds. Then we would all lift them or we would push them up ramps into the dump truck. Everyone needs to experience that fun before they get a machine like a dingo so they appreciate it. I wish my guys had the fun of raking chips out of the back of a ford ranger so they appreciated a dump truck. First time I pressed that button to dump it was heavenly. They do love the dingo though.... Mike



:agree2:X10

priceless experience bro


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm actually kicking around the idea of a 4x4 quad. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a Dingo for one. I could tow a nice little trailer with it, use its 3500 pound winch, and plow snow as a bonus. Quads are awesome for laying snow as they are so nimble and can turn around in a fraction of the clearing that a pickup can. There are some tree guys here and there who use quads so I wouldn't look like a complete imbecile, well at least not because of the quad anyway. Some of the accessories available for the modern day quads like the Polaris for example are really, really cool.


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 20, 2010)

look at all the stuff Baileys sells for use with a quad, actually quite useful machines.


----------



## danieltree (Jan 21, 2010)

Don't forget about tractors. I use a jd 2210 with a front end loader and a boom on the back with skidding tongs. Its no t300 but it gets the job done at a fraction of the cost.​


----------



## outofmytree (Jan 21, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> I'm getting a kick out of this thread, plas,  you're in the biz now less than a year and ready to buy equipment, but you are going to miss out on a valuable lesson. :dunno:
> 
> buy some of these and move wood to the truck with em, and when you do
> finally buy a loader, you will really appreciate it..........
> ...



We call these puppies fridge trolleys and they are wayyyyyy better than wheelbarrows for moving blocks. We used to cut logs about a foot long for the wheelbarrow but now we cut em 4 foot long. Of course it depends on whether you are chipping the logs or turning the into firewood!


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 21, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> We call these puppies fridge trolleys and they are wayyyyyy better than wheelbarrows for moving blocks. We used to cut logs about a foot long for the wheelbarrow but now we cut em 4 foot long. Of course it depends on whether you are chipping the logs or turning the into firewood!



That hand truck looks really nice. I might order one. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Grace Tree (Jan 21, 2010)

I've used one of these on well over 300 removals. 
Northern tool tree dolly
After a few years the bearings went so I replaced the wheels and bearings with some from TSC. I use a car hauler trailer so the rear drops down a bit. I welded two small stubs on the back. 'Come up to the back of the trailer, catch the stubs with the dolly, lift the wood on the back of the trailer. If I can get it on the cart I can lift it on the trailer. They look pretty flimsy but I've never had a broken weld so I'd have to say it was a pretty good investment. I've since gone to a Bobcat with a Branch Manager Grapple. The dolly is in my museum of antique tree equipment along side a wax figure of myself. Spend the bucks and make life easier on yourself. Don't abuse yourself with "unnecessary" work
Phil


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

Sometimes I wonder 'bout you, Plas. In this game for one year and you're already sick of moving wood, eh? I've been cuttin' and rollin', tossin' it on my shoulder and up into the truck for years and I still enjoy it. It's good for you. It'll toughen you up.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 21, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> Sometimes I wonder 'bout you, Plas. In this game for one year and you're already sick of moving wood, eh? I've been cuttin' and rollin', tossin' it on my shoulder and up into the truck for years and I still enjoy it. It's good for you. It'll toughen you up.



If you saw the job site I'm going to be working on soon you wouldn't wonder. It's an apartment complex, rather large, and we'll be working around the entire perimeter, and there is no truck access. A lot of tonnage has to be moved a large distance in a timely and efficient manner.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> If you saw the job site I'm going to be working on soon you wouldn't wonder. It's an apartment complex, rather large, and we'll be working around the entire perimeter, and there is no truck access. A lot of tonnage has to be moved a large distance in a timely and efficient manner.



Someone else said it before but renting for those big jobs is always a great idea. I'll probably be investing in a Dingo myself this year but I've rented one many times in the past. Four wheelers are nice when outfitted with a log arch and can pull a decent sized log out of a yard as long as the trees can come down in big pieces they're useful.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 21, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> Someone else said it before but renting for those big jobs is always a great idea. I'll probably be investing in a Dingo myself this year but I've rented one many times in the past. Four wheelers are nice when outfitted with a log arch and can pull a decent sized log out of a yard as long as the trees can come down in big pieces they're useful.



Not that this REALLY matters, but do you think it would look unprofessional to be riding an ATV around a job site?


----------



## JTinaTree (Jan 21, 2010)

Plasmech, You can find deals on Mini skids right now, I picked one up of Craigslist from a lanscape company needing money.. I got a 2004 Mt52 for $3500 I replaced drive motor seals and had to fix the charging system.. I also painted it and Replaced decals and added a platform.. Hang in there, i loaded big wood by hand for years..you really appreciate something like this when you find one..


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 21, 2010)

$3500 for a Bobcat? Are you ####ting me? That's awesome man!






JTinaTree said:


> Plasmech, You can find deals on Mini skids right now, I picked one up of Craigslist from a lanscape company needing money.. I got a 2004 Mt52 for $3500 I replaced drive motor seals and had to fix the charging system.. I also painted it and Replaced decals and added a platform.. Hang in there, i loaded big wood by hand for years..you really appreciate something like this when you find one..


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> Not that this REALLY matters, but do you think it would look unprofessional to be riding an ATV around a job site?



Yes. I am more worried about my image than most though. To a redneck like myself, four wheelers are just another tool, but I believe city dwellers tend to think they are more for entertainment purposes. JMHO A dingo is much more professional and useful, and as JTina just proved can be purchased relatively cheap. Lotta people goin' under and sellin' their #### right now.


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

You guys really got your head up your butt. A piece of equipment like a mini is a seriously smart investment for a tree company. Get more work done with less labor. 

Purchasing might not be a good idea if you can't make the figures work. If you are paying a bunch of slackers to move wood cut them loose and invest.

Rent what you think will work till you find the right model for your company. 
Get a branch manager grapple a mulch bucket and forks when you commit to a machine.


----------



## JTinaTree (Jan 21, 2010)

If your able to fix things up, you can find some great deals.. Im a mechanic by trade and love restoring things, so it was a great no brainer deal for me I put less than $200 worth of parts and paint into it not including the Step Up Platform.. Just a couple of weeks labor to get it to what you see in the picks..
You would probably benefit to have a Log Cart from Sherrills or Something of that nature is probably a good option for what your doing now by hand Plasmech..

JT


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

arborworks1 said:


> You guys really got your head up your butt. A piece of equipment like a mini is a seriously smart investment for a tree company. Get more work done with less labor.



That's cute, but no. What specifically about Plas's situation do you think requires he buy a Dingo at this point in time?


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

If he has steady work then why not. It will pay for itself, don't tell the kid that because he is only a year old company that he should not buy equipment. Have a better reason than just so he appreciates the equipment later. Equipment is a wise choice if you want to be able to last in this industry.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

arborworks1 said:


> If he has steady work then why not. It will pay for itself, don't tell the kid that because he is only a year old company that he should not buy equipment. Have a better reason than just so he appreciates the equipment later. Equipment is a wise choice if you want to be able to last in this industry.



True, but before I recommend a Dingo I would recommend a ...chipper? ...a bigger truck? ...a stump grinder? ...maybe some advertising? ...or perhaps even a third saw. In my opinion these are much more important than a Dingo. 

No offense to you Plas, I didn't have much more than you very long ago either. We all start somewhere.


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

Well to derail this thread, A dump trailer, mini and a few saws will suit a small outfit very well. Chipper is overated unless you are doing three to four jobs a day or working big removals day in and day out.


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 21, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> That's cute, but no. What specifically about Plas's situation do you think requires he buy a Dingo at this point in time?



If I'm not mistaken, he also has a full time job as an engineer. this is a consuming hobby for him, and while it looks like he is going to be a competent climber, he is putting himself out for advice on this forum.
the comments by myself and others were sarcasm, but still meant to curb the buy buy buy mentality prevalent in small businesses starting out.

Plas, what is your gross income from tree work, without any other sources?
credit level? how much work on the books? how many jobs done in a week?
lotta things that matter, besides not wanting to move heavy wood on a job or two a week.

If you can buy a machine, and want to invest your $$ in a risky business, more power to ya. 



Heck, I made ya the mayor.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

arborworks1 said:


> Well to derail this thread, A dump trailer, mini and a few saws will suit a small outfit very well. Chipper is overated unless you are doing three to four jobs a day or working big removals day in and day out.



Sounds great but you need something to pull a dump trailer and Dingo.


----------



## brokenbudget (Jan 21, 2010)

why not a small garden tractor (12-14hp or so)


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> A chipper is over rated?
> 
> I don't agree. A chipper is much more useful than a mini.



That's the way I see it but I don't want to destroy the Mayor's thread here. Dingos are great but far down on the list IMO.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

brokenbudget said:


> why not a small garden tractor (12-14hp or so)



Some guys use 'em and I can see their benefit on long hauls but you still have to handle the wood manually at least two times and they aren't the post professional looking piece of equipment.


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

Seriously, how many times has the chipper loaded wood off a removal?


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

arborworks1 said:


> Seriously, how many times has the chipper loaded wood off a removal?



Really? That's your response? How many times has a Dingo chipped brush? Nanna Nanna Boo Boo.


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

Actually Its has a chipper to mount as an attachment, so there!!!

Jokes on you


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

arborworks1 said:


> Actually Its has a chipper to mount as an attachment, so there!!!
> 
> Jokes on you



I'm sure it's quite the AWESOME machine too.


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

Not awesome, but while you are cutting your logs into hand loading chucks, I am starting my next job. 

Rent what you need for now, Plas.


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 21, 2010)

arborworks1 said:


> Seriously, how many times has the chipper loaded wood off a removal?



well you can always give wood away, or sell firewood. most is somewhat usable.



NOBODY wants brush.....................

but you can give chips away.


----------



## arborworks1 (Jan 21, 2010)

You guys make good points, But a growing business could benefit from a piece of equipment that could earn money away from trees as well.

Many times I have made extra money on jobs because I had a loader with a bucket to move something for an older couple or plant a large tree for a good customer, the list goes on. 

Chippers are alot of upkeep and expense running them is quite high. A trailer doesn't cost anything to sit onsite and be filled with the mini. Slashing in a trailer can make a lot of brush disappear. 

I'm also willing to bet with some networking you can find a client or wood drop off that will have some land to dispose of brush . It might not be that way in your area.


----------



## Tree Pig (Jan 21, 2010)

I kind of like the small tractor idea too they seem to work out well, though I would like a mini skid.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 21, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I kind of like the small tractor idea too they seem to work out well, though I would like a mini skid.



How much can a small tractor be had for, the smallest one tha would be worth anything on a tree job site?


----------



## Tree Pig (Jan 21, 2010)

new more then you could get a used mini skid for. But for a new one in the area of 13-15k with out crapple bucket. Oh by the way that pic isnt mine I just added it to give an idea what I am talknig about.


----------



## danieltree (Jan 21, 2010)

I paid 15,000 for mine. its hydrostatic and has a bucket. I also have the finish mower that mounts to the bottom. I can run the mower over the yard after I am done and the yard looks great. I also have a hitch on the back for pulling a trailer to the brush instead of bringing the brush to the trailer. the whole thing weighs around 1,700 hundred pounds so I can get back in a yard after a rain sooner than if I had a bobcat.​


----------



## Tree Pig (Jan 21, 2010)

danieltree said:


> I paid 15,000 for mine. its hydrostatic and has a bucket. I also have the finish mower that mounts to the bottom. I can run the mower over the yard after I am done and the yard looks great. I also have a hitch on the back for pulling a trailer to the brush instead of bringing the brush to the trailer. the whole thing weighs around 1,700 hundred pounds so I can get back in a yard after a rain sooner than if I had a bobcat.​



yep for sure less intrusive on the lawn.


----------



## outofmytree (Jan 22, 2010)

Treeslayer has the right idea Plas. This trade can be a very very expensive hobby unless the gear is paying for itself. I strongly recommend you hire as many different pieces of equipment as possiblebefore you put your hard earned cash on the line. Like you said elsewhere this is a weekend gig for you at the moment so try em all before you buy any. 

If you are moving anything over grass I recommend you try an articulated loader if you can. Skidsteers do just that. Skid. I have a tracked skid steer much like the bargain bobcat pictured earlier and although imo they are gentler on turf than wheels it is still very easy to do damage that you then have to fix. Also go straight to a grapple bucket and leave the forks or 4 in 1 buckets alone. A grapple makes moving brush or blocks a one man operation so your labourers can be doing other things while you do the "hard" work.


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 22, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Treeslayer has the right idea Plas. This trade can be a very very expensive hobby unless the gear is paying for itself. I strongly recommend you hire as many different pieces of equipment as possiblebefore you put your hard earned cash on the line. Like you said elsewhere this is a weekend gig for you at the moment so try em all before you buy any.
> 
> If you are moving anything over grass I recommend you try an articulated loader if you can. Skidsteers do just that. Skid. I have a tracked skid steer much like the bargain bobcat pictured earlier and although imo they are gentler on turf than wheels it is still very easy to do damage that you then have to fix. Also go straight to a grapple bucket and leave the forks or 4 in 1 buckets alone. A grapple makes moving brush or blocks a one man operation so your labourers can be doing other things while you do the "hard" work.



What works for me, as a contract climber who does not own any big equipment, is I partner up with local guys when I travel. I get guys lined up everywhere I go to sub the hauling and do the cleanup, when I am selling my own jobs. (big newspaper ad right now). I figure about half of every takedown bid for cleanup, and this pays ALL the labor. I make good money, and they make good money. on pruning jobs, I leave it curbside, and send the crew around to clean it all at once after I have a couple done.
plus, 10-99's shed us of tax obligations.

Find you a landscaper guy with a skidsteer, and sub it til you are ready to buy, not another tree guy, he will be too tempted to take the walk up jobs.

This works everywhere.

I work with this guy 2-3 days a week, he has 3 different machine available, and he just built a grapple, and is buying a chipper next. he smells the $$.


----------



## outofmytree (Jan 22, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> What works for me, as a contract climber who does not own any big equipment, is I partner up with local guys when I travel. I get guys lined up everywhere I go to sub the hauling and do the cleanup, when I am selling my own jobs. (big newspaper ad right now). I figure about half of every takedown bid for cleanup, and this pays ALL the labor. I make good money, and they make good money. on pruning jobs, I leave it curbside, and send the crew around to clean it all at once after I have a couple done.
> plus, 10-99's shed us of tax obligations.
> 
> Find you a landscaper guy with a skidsteer, and sub it til you are ready to buy, not another tree guy, he will be too tempted to take the walk up jobs.
> ...



Hey slayer is that you he is using for ballast?


----------



## treemandan (Jan 22, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> I'm getting a kick out of this thread, plas,  you're in the biz now less than a year and ready to buy equipment, but you are going to miss out on a valuable lesson. :dunno:
> 
> buy some of these and move wood to the truck with em, and when you do
> finally buy a loader, you will really appreciate it..........
> ...



:agree2:


----------



## treemandan (Jan 22, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> $3500 for a Bobcat? Are you ####ting me? That's awesome man!



I am not sure my Dingo 425 track model could load that... maybe with a few guys hanging off the back.


----------



## outofmytree (Jan 22, 2010)

treemandan said:


> I am not sure my Dingo 425 track model could load that... maybe with a few guys hanging off the back.



Or just 1 S&M????


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 22, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Or just 1 S&M????



stihl o matic IS the weight limit.....................:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## woodchux (Jan 22, 2010)

These battery powered carts look pretty sweet...





Northern tool sells em for around $1900...

I also like the look of the Jonesred Iorn Horse..








Spec page says 2.5 psi ground pressure with 1000# load.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 22, 2010)

Wat do you guys suppose the smallest tractor that has 4 wheel drive is? Something like a Kubota or a Deer or the like (?)


----------



## JTinaTree (Jan 22, 2010)

Ive seen some pretty small little Kubotas with a bucket but they are $$$.
You can find a decent Mini skid for what you pay for the little tractors+ the Mini will fit through a 36" gate..


----------



## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2010)

I just skimmed the thread looking at pics of cool equipment. Dingo, DR, Bobcat. I picked up an old John Deere Gator for $75. It's kind high to lift onto, but it makes lifting the rest of the way up to the truck easier. 40 years ago we ran 2 pro crews with only hand power. Allmost all of our work was residential and there was really no smallish equipment to use in manicured yards in the DC area. You just couldn't tear peoples lawns up and repair after the work was done. There were times we bought bails of burlap to cover yards to keep from getting saw dust in the grass. 

I'm retired now, so all of the big trucks and chippers are gone. I have one 1/2 ton Dodge and a single axle 5,000lb gvw dump trailer. I can stack brush 10' high and people at the dump just grin when I come in and dump. Works for me playing around. I would never suggest it for pro work. Get a used chipper. Stay away from the little 6 inchers. I've rented a little Morbark 10" with an air cooled diesel (25 hp?), worked great.

Time is money, and what ever you can find to cut down on handling, is a bonus. Keep up the hard work and good luck, Joe.


----------



## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2010)

I just went back and read most of the thread. I read the part that says your an engineer by trade doing tree work on the side. I was 4th generation in the trade and have loved the work all of my life. I know why people get hooked on this work. It's good honest WORK. It's hard, healthy, and you can make a lot of money. Here's the point where I might PO a lot of guys. 

Are you LICENSED? Are you INSURED? I know everyone must get started somewhere, but doing pro tree work is not the right place to start. Since you said you were doing an apt complex I assumed you were a legal company, they usually check. If not licensed and insured, don't worry about equipment, stop now, untill you are. One screw up on your part will ruin your life forever, not to mention the lives of the people you're working for. If you're on the up and up, sorry for the lecture. When I took my MD Tree Expert exam in 1999 you had to have a 4 year degree in an arborculter related field or 8 years in the industry. I don't see where you can have the time and education to have met minimal requirements. Home improvement and business license's don't count. If you're not ISA licensed, you're not legal.

My lecture is over, now we can get back to all of the neat equipment, Joe.


----------



## danieltree (Jan 23, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> Wat do you guys suppose the smallest tractor that has 4 wheel drive is? Something like a Kubota or a Deer or the like (?)



The tractor I have is a john deere . Its 4 wheel drive and is 24 hp. It is hydrostatic so the hydralics are strong. I have skid 28 inch pine logs 18ft long with it. It is not small enough to fit through most gates but can go between houses in a cramped subdivision its 50 inches wide. The cost is up there but the machines versatility allows for more ways it can pay for itself. 


I would like to say something about the need for equipment. I leave the machines at home on a lot of jobs, the labor to load is easier and cheaper than making an extra trip to retrieve the tractor or use another truck and trailer. I have had guys come on the job and freak out over the amount of wood that needed to be moved by hand but once you show them how to attack it and they get some rhythm it goes quick. A piece of equipment is surely a back saver just remember that you cant lay a peice of machinery off when times are slow that note is there rain or shine. There are also all the support pieces that go with it. Gotta have a truck to pull it, need a trailer to load it on , there is maintenance and breakdowns. I think that its good advice to tackle all jobs without the crutch of hydraulics first, learn how to move the wood then get the helper. Getting brush and rounds out efficiently is a science in itself and is very rewarding.


I would also like to add that if you are not running the equipment there will be stuff that gets destroyed, I have never had a helper that was as careful as me on the job and without fail if you are not on the machine they will either tear it up or run over great great grandmas rose bush.​


----------



## outofmytree (Jan 23, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> I just went back and read most of the thread. I read the part that says your an engineer by trade doing tree work on the side. I was 4th generation in the trade and have loved the work all of my life. I know why people get hooked on this work. It's good honest WORK. It's hard, healthy, and you can make a lot of money. Here's the point where I might PO a lot of guys.
> 
> Are you LICENSED? Are you INSURED? I know everyone must get started somewhere, but doing pro tree work is not the right place to start. Since you said you were doing an apt complex I assumed you were a legal company, they usually check. If not licensed and insured, don't worry about equipment, stop now, untill you are. One screw up on your part will ruin your life forever, not to mention the lives of the people you're working for. If you're on the up and up, sorry for the lecture. When I took my MD Tree Expert exam in 1999 you had to have a 4 year degree in an arborculter related field or 8 years in the industry. I don't see where you can have the time and education to have met minimal requirements. Home improvement and business license's don't count. If you're not ISA licensed, you're not legal.
> 
> My lecture is over, now we can get back to all of the neat equipment, Joe.



You are a rare fish indeed.

I love talking shop but am 100% behind rarefish in saying do the work for which you are qualified and insured only. Plas you are as keen as mustard and I do not want you to lose the thrill of the work due to the pain of the lawsuit!!!!!


----------



## DeAvilaTree (Jan 23, 2010)

We use a kubota copact trator, I have a set forks on it that are about 3' long. We just cut the logs that it can handle and it will put it right in the back of my 350 or trailer.


----------



## Walt41 (Jan 23, 2010)

kennertree said:


> Just rent a mini-skid. They rent around here for $130 a day, get the forks on it or a grapple if they have one and you can move alot of wood quickly.



+1...AND if you use the same rental place alot, they will give discounts and even throw you some work here and there.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 23, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> You are a rare fish indeed.
> 
> I love talking shop but am 100% behind rarefish in saying do the work for which you are qualified and insured only. Plas you are as keen as mustard and I do not want you to lose the thrill of the work due to the pain of the lawsuit!!!!!



Why does every thread turn into a bashing of me? This forum is just no fun for me anymore. The title of the thread is Dingos and Such. It it not "Liability and Such". If I wanted to talk liability, I would have opened such a thread. It really is that simple.


----------



## Grace Tree (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm not bashing you. I think you want legitimate answers to your questions. Ask away. I think folks just have too much time on their hands right now and things are taking a nasty turn. I'm signing out for a couple of months. I'll be back in March.
Phil


----------



## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2010)

I did answer that I picked up an old John Deere Gator cheap and it works great for moving a pretty good jag of wood at one time. Beats a wheel barrow, or rolling the rounds up hill. 

Also, I'm not bashing you. I assume you enjoy this work as much as I did. You might not believe me, but your best interests are mine also. I've seen good young men that have had to work the rest of their lives to pay for something insurance would have covered.

Like I said above, let's get back to the cool equipment, Joe.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 23, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> I did answer that I picked up an old John Deere Gator cheap and it works great for moving a pretty good jag of wood at one time. Beats a wheel barrow, or rolling the rounds up hill.
> 
> Also, I'm not bashing you. I assume you enjoy this work as much as I did. You might not believe me, but your best interests are mine also. I've seen good young men that have had to work the rest of their lives to pay for something insurance would have covered.
> 
> Like I said above, let's get back to the cool equipment, Joe.



I am all for insurance, believe me. That's currently in the works. As far as licensing goes...nowhere in the US Constitution, which is the ONLY form of gov't as far as I am concerned, does it give the gov't the power to control who climbs a tree and who doesn't. It is NONE of their business. So, unless I absolutely 100% HAVE to get a license, I will not. And even then I may not. Crock of #### as far as I am concerned. I'm sure there are plenty on here who agree with me.


----------



## danieltree (Jan 23, 2010)

Really, that is your view, I guess as a hobbyist perhaps one would feel that way. This is how I feed the beast and being licensed is required in my state. So is workers comp. So is GL. If that is your view then as far as I am concerned you are the enemy. Your the guy that sees a quick buck and has no concern for the profession or his customers. I have read a lot of your posts and kinda liked you but now I see your true colors.​


----------



## treeslayer (Jan 23, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I am all for insurance, believe me. That's currently in the works. As far as licensing goes...nowhere in the US Constitution, which is the ONLY form of gov't as far as I am concerned, does it give the gov't the power to control who climbs a tree and who doesn't. It is NONE of their business. So, unless I absolutely 100% HAVE to get a license, I will not. And even then I may not. Crock of #### as far as I am concerned. I'm sure there are plenty on here who agree with me.



local govt's issue licenses in order to regulate taxation for the most part, and to protect society at large from unscrupulous contractors by registering them.

watch where ya go with this one plas. you got a future here, Mr. Mayor. 
you ain't in it for the money, I'm guessing, but the love of treework. 

buy a skidsteer, leave tractors in landscaping where they belong.


----------



## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2010)

Plas, I'd like to apologize, you were right, this was not the place to address this issue. Instead of backing you into a corner in front of your peers, I should have tried a better way to help you get what you need to get licensed. 

As for the rant above, I say that's what I get for backing you into that corner. Enough said about that.

There are ways to get started legally. My Dad took a landscaper he met in DC under his wing. After working with him a few times they became friends. Dad got his license in DC and listed Lou as our DC branch office. We have allways been licensed in MD. If your a half decent climber hook up with someone who is licensed till you have the time and expertese to pass your test. You've made a lot of friends here. The thing is you do have to get that stuff ot opperate. As much as you and I dissagree with our gov they cn still push us around. Good luck, Joe.


----------



## mr. holden wood (Jan 23, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> So I've got several jobs lines up that require moving a lot of wood around on the ground some considerable distances. So far, what my helper and I have been doing is bucking everything into firewood sized pieces and either backing a pickup in as close as we can or if we're less fortunate with access using a wheel barrow and in some extreme cases carrying wood out by hand. As one can imagine, this gets old real quick and is very limiting.
> 
> A Dingo would be great, but I am nowhere near ready to make that kind of investment. My question is, what type of device or machine bridges the gap between moving stuff by hand or in a wheel barrow/pickup and having a Dingo? Is there some sort of inexpensive motorized pulling device to be had? I've been pondering this quite a bit. I even thought of a quad however I don't see that being very practical and certainly far from professional.


 The easiest way to move wood is the free section of craigslist. Buck rounds into 16 inch sections and people line up for it.
Whats unprofessional is portraying yourself as a legal and experienced tree service.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 23, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> So I've got several jobs lines up that require moving a lot of wood around on the ground some considerable distances. So far, what my helper and I have been doing is bucking everything into firewood sized pieces and either backing a pickup in as close as we can or if we're less fortunate with access using a wheel barrow and in some extreme cases carrying wood out by hand. As one can imagine, this gets old real quick and is very limiting.
> 
> A Dingo would be great, but I am nowhere near ready to make that kind of investment. My question is, what type of device or machine bridges the gap between moving stuff by hand or in a wheel barrow/pickup and having a Dingo? Is there some sort of inexpensive motorized pulling device to be had? I've been pondering this quite a bit. I even thought of a quad however I don't see that being very practical and certainly far from professional.


Buy mine for cheap before they come and repossess it it's a Ramrod 900t it's real nice :smoking:


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 24, 2010)

Equipment to do the job. Equipment to fit in truck bed or on trailer. Not having to drive two trucks or two trailers to get equipment to job. One to two people with good machinery can do as much work of 5-8 man crew! 
If your goal is to go big. Purchase machinery to fit your best interest.
I have not interest in getting big. But do use the right machinery to make life easier. Mini skid steer and smaller stump grinder with one or two man crew makes life good.


----------



## outofmytree (Jan 24, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> Why does every thread turn into a bashing of me? This forum is just no fun for me anymore. The title of the thread is Dingos and Such. It it not "Liability and Such". If I wanted to talk liability, I would have opened such a thread. It really is that simple.



I read and reread what I posted Plas. I think you are overly sensitive. I have not "bashed" you before nor now. I simply added my support to the concept of being careful as to what work you take on. If apartment complexes in the States are run anything like they are over here, you have 50 masters to answer to not one. And as they say over here "any man who rides 2 horses needs a lot of arse". (arse loosely translates to luck)


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 24, 2010)

Most individuals or company probably started without insurance or being certified. Just be aware of what is required in your area. Knowledge is power. 
Most people started out just like you. Although most wont admit to that now!


----------



## rarefish383 (Jan 25, 2010)

Saw Dust Smoken said:


> Most individuals or company probably started without insurance or being certified. Just be aware of what is required in your area. Knowledge is power.
> Most people started out just like you. Although most wont admit to that now!



Right, wrong, or indifferent, you're probably right. It is a lot harder to get your license now than in my Dads day. Back then all you had to do is pay your fee and take the test. When I took my test, MD had just switched to the ISA test, and it's a lot harder than the old test. Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse over this. Maybe in the furture we can have a thread that will be more helpfull to the new, younger guys, Joe.


----------



## JCONN (Jan 25, 2010)

I have looking at minis for awhile. I also do landscaping and think it would help me out greatly. I have a buddy that owns a kubota bx24 tractor with a bucket and backhoe its a 20 hp diesel. have moved some good sized rounds with it but only reaches into the dump trailer. The problem is that their is limited attachments and very pricey, the tractor was also like $20,000 way to much. I use log dollies to load big pieces a lot of the time. When we do really big willows, cottonwoods or multiple td's and need to load all the trucks we use a cat tracked skid steer. I do work with a hardscape company around here its their machine. I let them borrow my dump once in a while and when needed I call them they bring the machine over load everything and then leave with it. Works great no extra truck and trailer cant justify buying one if theirs enough trucks you can move a crap load of wood in an hour. I would try to work something like this out, hook up with a small landscaper give him any landscape jobs and maybe they will give you tree work, even if the charge you 100 bucks to show its a third of the rental price and you get an operator so you can do other things.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 25, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Or just 1 S&M????



Oh that's bad. You shouldn't be doing that. Its SoM.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 25, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> Wat do you guys suppose the smallest tractor that has 4 wheel drive is? Something like a Kubota or a Deer or the like (?)



I have seen compacts that could lift what my Dingo could and whatnot for as low a 3500. The one thing I don't like is the getting on and off all the time but something like that is cheaper and will work for many things.


----------



## arbor pro (Jan 26, 2010)

treemandan said:


> I have seen compacts that could lift what my Dingo could and whatnot for as low a 3500. The one thing I don't like is the getting on and off all the time but something like that is cheaper and will work for many things.



I'll sell my aerial lift and my chipper before I sell my mini skid. I paid $7500 for a mini with 500 hours on it. The mini skid costs me about $150/month in payments to the bank. Ad maintenance and operation costs and it's probably about $250/month to own and operate. That's the cost of renting one for just a single weekend. At $65/hr labor per man billed out, that's just 4 extra hours of labor billed out per month to make it cash flow. My mini saves me WAY more than 4 hours of labor in a single week - let alone an entire month. 

No brainer owning one unless you have nothing better to do with your time than to cut stuff up small and cart or drag it out of back yards. If that's the case, I hope your back holds out. That's how I used to do it and, after 20 years of tree work, my back is now shot.


----------



## codog (Jan 26, 2010)

*Mini*

Arborpro,
I think about this business all day, even when I'm working my 'real job'. Been in it for 4 years. I have almost exactly what you have except the Gennie 50 which I was so close to buying 2 years ago. I 100% agree with you about the mini. I wouldn't live w/o it. Can you tell me why you are selling the Gennie? 
I'm part time in this, trying to stay simple. Are you going with another Gennie or ????


----------



## sawinredneck (Jan 26, 2010)

Plas, I bought a mini, I don't know how I lived without it! I focus on takedowns and fence rows, but it's my right arm anymore! I bought mine used, needed work with a BMG and bucket for $4k. I don't have a chipper, I have a green waste site I can dump at. Fill the 16' trailer as full as I can, drive the mini on the back, go to the site and it takes five min to unload.
A chipper would be nice, but I don't have anything to blow it into, I don't have anywhere to dump it and I need to keep costs down.
The mini turns me into a three man crew and it doesn't lay down on me like my help has been known to do on hot days. It runs until it's out of gas. Buy then I'm ready for a drink anyway.
Compact tractors have their place and are nice, but buy the time you buy one, you can't afford anything else! They take up too much room on the trailer to haul anything else and are too big to move around in a back yard most times.
Unless you can come across a killer deal on a DR like Treeco did, look hard at a mini, you will never look at life the same way!
I've now built a brush hog and a set of pallet forks for mine, the forks cost me $150, the brush hog was $300.


----------



## arbor pro (Jan 27, 2010)

codog said:


> Arborpro,
> I think about this business all day, even when I'm working my 'real job'. Been in it for 4 years. I have almost exactly what you have except the Gennie 50 which I was so close to buying 2 years ago. I 100% agree with you about the mini. I wouldn't live w/o it. Can you tell me why you are selling the Gennie?
> I'm part time in this, trying to stay simple. Are you going with another Gennie or ????



It's been extremely wet here with floods every spring and it's inevitable that it's going to flood again this spring. As light as my genie tz50 is, it's a bit bigger and heavier than what these soggy yards will handle. I'm going to use a 60' truck-mounted boom for the front yard stuff and look for a smaller towable lift for back yard stuff and do more climbing.

Send me a pm about the genie if you're still considering one. It's listed in the trading post if you haven't checked it out yet. I have been renting it out to a few local electricians and painters. In 2008 and 2009, the rent income I made off the lift paid my bank payments for me. It cash flows well. I can give you more info in the pm or you can call me at 605-228-9350.

scott


----------



## WSTREE (Jan 27, 2010)

Ball cart


----------



## arbor pro (Feb 1, 2010)

arbor pro said:


> It's been extremely wet here with floods every spring and it's inevitable that it's going to flood again this spring. As light as my genie tz50 is, it's a bit bigger and heavier than what these soggy yards will handle. I'm going to use a 60' truck-mounted boom for the front yard stuff and look for a smaller towable lift for back yard stuff and do more climbing.
> 
> Send me a pm about the genie if you're still considering one. It's listed in the trading post if you haven't checked it out yet. I have been renting it out to a few local electricians and painters. In 2008 and 2009, the rent income I made off the lift paid my bank payments for me. It cash flows well. I can give you more info in the pm or you can call me at 605-228-9350.
> 
> scott



Update for those interested. I'm trying to get my tz50 lift sold within the next month so I can get a new TZ37 ordered before spring. I also now have two bucket trucks to pay for so I'm considering reasonable offers on the genie. Call me if interested. Scott 605-228-9350


----------

