# T/F Copper nails?



## Ekka (Aug 7, 2005)

I must hear this atleast once a week, customers keep telling me it's the best way. Not that easy to buy copper nails but is it true anyway?


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

I certainly hope its false. I install lightning protection systems in trees using copper nails to hold the copper wire in place.


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## Ekka (Aug 7, 2005)

What I'd like to know is where this originates from, maybe there's a story we don't know or something?


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## vharrison2 (Aug 7, 2005)

I want to know more about the lightning protection that Treeman14 is talking about.


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

I don 't know where it started, but I've heard it many times over the years. 

And what about copper based fungicides? :Eye:


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

G, here's where I get all of my lightning protection supplies from. 
http://www.ipclp.com/


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## vharrison2 (Aug 7, 2005)

Brett, what application do you do use to the protect the tree? Is there a specific species you target for protection?


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## Ekka (Aug 7, 2005)

Nah, don't need them for palms!


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## vharrison2 (Aug 7, 2005)

Not queens anyway, eh?


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

Its basically a lightning rod in a tree, or rather several lightning rods depending on the canopy spread. A fairly expensive proposition, so its used mainly on large, high value specimen trees.


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## vharrison2 (Aug 7, 2005)

Very interesting.


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## TreeJunkie (Aug 7, 2005)

Bret,

What's the average system cost? I'm familiar w/ the systems however, I've never installed one nor have i ever tried to sell one. It would certainly seem like a major p.i.t.a.


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

TreeJunkie said:


> Brett,
> 
> What's the average system cost? I'm familiar w/ the systems however, I've never installed one nor have i ever tried to sell one. It would certainly seem like a major p.i.t.a.




Average is about $2,000 per tree. Its not that difficult to install, a medium size oak can be done in half a day. Some larger, spreading trees requiring multiple air terminals will obviously take longer, but no more than a full day of work for a climber and one groundie.


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## SteveBullman (Aug 7, 2005)

you get much of that sort of work? ive always fancied trying that


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

stephenbullman said:


> you get much of that sort of work?



No


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## SteveBullman (Aug 7, 2005)

too bad, i would imagine the sort of customer prepared to have that done would also be willing to cough up big bucks too


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## City climber (Aug 7, 2005)

*lightning protection*

Golf courses are prime candidates large open expanses with large trees.have done several all but one were for country clubs


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## texasnative (Aug 7, 2005)

I am scheduled to takedown 2 trees this week at a municipal golf course. There are 9 trees total on the course that were killed by lightning so far this year. I will takedown the trees that must be climbed, and the city will handle the others. I just ordered the information kit from IPC. Thanks for the link Treeman. As for copper nails killing a tree? Too much copper (too much of anything) could kill anything. Everything in moderation. Even beer. Sometimes. JMHO


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## tnttreeman (Aug 7, 2005)

I think the copper nail thing has been adapted somehow from the belief of using copper sulfate to kill roots of the tree. I haven't bought any of the stump rot stuff for quite a while, but I believe one of the main ingredients used to be copper sulfate. At least I think.......


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## fubar2 (Aug 7, 2005)

I know that copper sulfate will kill pond alge. I cant imagine trying to drive something as soft as copper into a tree tho.


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## lostone (Aug 7, 2005)

Im not a pro so I cant speak for sure, but I can tell you this, there was a plum tree next to my driveway that had to come out, so when I put the saw to it, it got its revenge inside the stump was a steel rod covered in copper (about 3/4" round, a foot out of the ground and I would say 2 foot into the ground) needless to say I was getting a new chain after that, but the tree was doing alright with it in it, it was about 4" inside the tree completely covered over by the tree.


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## treesurgeon (Aug 7, 2005)

who knows who thinks of these things. customers beleive anything someone will tell them that they dont know about. then when you show up there they know it all, even if its wrong. i hear about that copper nail thing a few times a year.


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## Treeman14 (Aug 7, 2005)

fubar2 said:


> I cant imagine trying to drive something as soft as copper into a tree tho.



I believe the copper nails are some type of alloy, not pure copper.


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## jemclimber (Aug 8, 2005)

I've never heard that putting copper nails in the tree will kill it, but I have heard that many copper spikes or tubing put in the ground around the tree will kill it slowly. I don't know if there is any truth to it or not??


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## treeseer (Oct 5, 2006)

isa sells the standards and bmps; 

http://secure.isa-arbor.com/store/A...ctices-Lightning-Protection-Combo-P210C0.aspx


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## okietreedude1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Ive heard it only works on walnuts. Ive cut a couple copper nails in trees before. NIce thing is it doesnt do as much damage as a steel nail.


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## younggun (Oct 5, 2006)

kind of sounds like one for the myth busters


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## TackleTree (Oct 5, 2006)

Ekka said:


> I must hear this atleast once a week, customers keep telling me it's the best way. Not that easy to buy copper nails but is it true anyway?



sounds like a project for Mythbusters.


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## Husky137 (Oct 5, 2006)

Is there an echo in here?


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## TackleTree (Oct 6, 2006)

yeah that is weird.


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## younggun (Oct 6, 2006)

TackleTree said:


> yeah that is weird.


no kidding' three minuets apart, must of bin typing at the same time


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## mpatch (Oct 6, 2006)

yes, copper can kills trees IF it oxidizes and is absorbed by the tree


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 6, 2006)

I'm on the kill side, though you would need a lot of them.

A nail will kill the local tissue.


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## TackleTree (Oct 6, 2006)

younggun said:


> no kidding' three minuets apart, must of bin typing at the same time



You have to be a good dude with a great mind.......because great minds think alike


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## younggun (Oct 6, 2006)

i just checked the mythbusters fan site and there are a ton of posts on this subject and most beleav it is true, one guy thinks the wond from the nail would alow an infection bad enough to kill the tree, another clames a frend actuly did it buy puting an iron nail in the tree next to the copper one


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## Ekka (Oct 7, 2006)

What is missing is scientific or documented real proof.

There's also plenty of people believe they saw aliens or got a ride but it doesn't make it true.

Anyone got links to some valid facts like a uni test etc?


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## gitrdun_climbr (Oct 7, 2006)

I didn't quite find the 'scientific' evidence but did find bazillions of sites, forums, blogs, etc. where arborists and foresters eye-witnessed copper nails NOT kill trees. I hear homeowners 'recommend' this practice to other homeowners fairly often as well. Some say driving them into stumps will speed decay...likely another myth. In one forum our city arborist Nolan Rundquist is even quoted saying the copper thing is false based on his field experience.

Anyone with an understanding of the biological processes within a tree knows exactly how to kill a tree...many with a simple pocket knife...but I'll leave it at that so as to not give the visiting homeowner any ideas.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 8, 2006)

I've read where Bot. Gardens recomend not using copper/bronze/brass fasteners due to localized necrosis.


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