# My splitter build



## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

It must be that time of year since there are so many splitter builds going on. I am gathering bits and pieces for the overall build.

I am going with a 20HP Kohler engine from a mower with a bad transmission. It has 154 hours on it. $250






I will be buying a 28GPM 2 stage pump.

I will be using bits and pieces of this ugly splitter $100





This belt drive off of a 11hp briggs just doesn't work and this maxed out at 900psi





The cylinder has 40" of stroke and is maybe 5" bore. It sat for a long time with the cylinder out so it rusted. I'm going to try to use it. I'm sure it will leak under pressure but I hope to salvage it and be able to use it. Time will tell.

This is what I need to get to splitting! It's all pine, sure wish I had some of you easterner's hardwood but pine is what we got and it will burn.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

I also just finished this shed to put a years supply of wood in. 




It has a skylight! :msp_rolleyes:
It is 24' x 8' deep. My calculations show it would hold 10.5 cords if stacked floor to ceiling. I was planning to side the front also but I'm just not sure it will matter. Last year I had a shed that was open on the front and it didn't really bother with snow. It will be easy to side if I need to so I am going to wait and see how this winter goes.


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## half (Aug 22, 2012)

*splitter ram*

you might be able to save it with a rub with wet and dry polishing paper, or a fine stone, dont play with the ram other than extending it a wee bit so you can clean it up
If it does not work you will have to replace the shaft , as it will just cut the nose seals to pieces


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## deranged (Aug 22, 2012)

Is that mower a Husqvarna? Interested in shipping the seat? I'll cover expenses.


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## Mac88 (Aug 22, 2012)

Rattler05.5 said:


> It must be that time of year since there are so many splitter builds going on. I am gathering bits and pieces for the overall build.



Interesting project. I'm curious as to how you will be mounting the pump to the engine. Good luck with restoring the cylinder. Depending on the amount of rust, you might be able to polish it up. Pics of your progress are always appreciated.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Interesting project. I'm curious as to how you will be mounting the pump to the engine. Good luck with restoring the cylinder. Depending on the amount of rust, you might be able to polish it up. Pics of your progress are always appreciated.



Anyone know why pumps, for the most part, say they can't be mounted vertically yet nearly all splitters have them mounted that way?

I'll check out the seat, but it is a scotts mower. I also have a husqvarna to compare it to so I will see if the mount is different.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

half said:


> you might be able to save it with a rub with wet and dry polishing paper, or a fine stone, dont play with the ram other than extending it a wee bit so you can clean it up
> If it does not work you will have to replace the shaft , as it will just cut the nose seals to pieces



Though I didn't go that far with it I was able to extend it farther and polished it up with emery cloth. It smoothed out pretty nicely, and worked ok. I'm concerned about when I get some real pressure behind it to see what the seal will do. Right now there is a little bit of oil on the shaft. If it is garbage I will have to get another one. It isn't the perfect cylinder but it is cheap so I'll try it.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

deranged said:


> Is that mower a Husqvarna? Interested in shipping the seat? I'll cover expenses.



It is a Scotts seat and comparing it to my Husqvarna it is totally different. This seat has 4 holes to mount. One set of holes is 7 3/8" apart and the other set is 9 1/4" apart. I don't know who engineered that. It also has a small tear in the seat. Probably not worth your trouble to convert it.

Here is the seat bottom


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## farmboss45 (Aug 22, 2012)

I got all my splitter parts, hoses act, from a site one of the guys on this site told me about called "Burden surplus sales" The tech's are very helpful with any questions and their prices are very good. Take a look at the splitter build thread as well for many helpful ideas on your build, and as always, pics, pics,pics......:msp_biggrin:


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## stihl023/5 (Aug 22, 2012)

Keep posting your progress.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

farmboss45 said:


> I got all my splitter parts, hoses act, from a site one of the guys on this site told me about called "Burden surplus sales" The tech's are very helpful with any questions and their prices are very good. Take a look at the splitter build thread as well for many helpful ideas on your build, and as always, pics, pics,pics......:msp_biggrin:



I have seen that site but didn't know they are out of Lincoln. Good prices too, thanks for the recommendation!


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## Mac88 (Aug 22, 2012)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Anyone know why pumps, for the most part, say they can't be mounted vertically yet nearly all splitters have them mounted that way?



I don't know that operating the pump vertically is a problem. Obviously some manufacturers do it that way. Just haven't been able to locate that type of mount. On a direct drive pump, shaft alignment between pump and engine is pretty critical. I'm sure any decent machine shop could fab one.


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## cnice_37 (Aug 22, 2012)

Splitter build, wood shed, and massive pile of wood all in one thread... A newbie trying to score some rep?

Well done, except I think your roof is slanting the wrong way?

Rep inbound


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## Mac88 (Aug 22, 2012)

cnice_37 said:


> Well done, except I think your roof is slanting the wrong way?



It helps keep the snow off the firewood. ;o)


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 22, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> I don't know that operating the pump vertically is a problem. Obviously some manufacturers do it that way. Just haven't been able to locate that type of mount. On a direct drive pump, shaft alignment between pump and engine is pretty critical. I'm sure any decent machine shop could fab one.



Will a normal lovejoy coupling not work? Like this with this pump to engine adapter.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417C1mlD1QL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
http://www.splitez.com/i/IMG_0757_1.JPG
Hydraulic pump mounting bracket to small engines for log splitters
I guess I need to tear this thing apart and look at what is under the engine to mount to. I'll figure something out.



cnice_37 said:


> Splitter build, wood shed, and massive pile of wood all in one thread... A newbie trying to score some rep?
> 
> Well done, except I think your roof is slanting the wrong way?
> 
> Rep inbound



The roof is definitely sloping the wrong way. The real shed is on the other side, I cheated and added my firewood shed to the back side. :msp_wink:
I wish I had some wood and a massive pile of motivation or money instead of the inverse. 
If we continue this drought we are in we won't get any rain or snow so it won't matter!

Thanks! I've learned a lot from reading here!


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## Mac88 (Aug 22, 2012)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Will a normal lovejoy coupling not work? Like this with this pump to engine adapter.
> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417C1mlD1QL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
> http://www.splitez.com/i/IMG_0757_1.JPG
> Hydraulic pump mounting bracket to small engines for log splitters
> I guess I need to tear this thing apart and look at what is under the engine to mount to. I'll figure something out.



Yep, you need the lovejoy. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure the vertical engine has mounting holes for the pump adapter. The standard mount is something like 8" or 9" in diameter. You've got the right idea. Check to see what you have, and check with the vendors to see if they have a mount that will fit your engine. There are a lot of vertical shaft engines floating around. Someone must make mounts that fit them.


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## Patrick62 (Aug 22, 2012)

*grab your stuff, and*

hop in the pickup and run up to me, and I can create that mount if you need. (about 2 1/2 hours from loveland)

Most likely the engine was designed for the tractor, but if there are bolt holes I could create a "adapter" that would fit that pump. Get the lovejoy that matches the engine/pump. Make it big (L100?) for the power involved.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 23, 2012)

Patrick62 said:


> hop in the pickup and run up to me, and I can create that mount if you need. (about 2 1/2 hours from loveland)
> 
> Most likely the engine was designed for the tractor, but if there are bolt holes I could create a "adapter" that would fit that pump. Get the lovejoy that matches the engine/pump. Make it big (L100?) for the power involved.



It looks like I need an L110 since after the calculations I have 560 in-lbs; though I will make the adapter myself. I love a challenge and own a torch and welder. 

Thanks for the offer though! Guessing, are you in the Evergreen area?


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## Mac88 (Aug 23, 2012)

Rattler05.5 said:


> It looks like I need an L110 since after the calculations I have 560 in-lbs; though I will make the adapter myself. I love a challenge and own a torch and welder.



Pull up the specs on the Lovejoy site. As I recall, the running tolerance on those couplings is something like .01" maximum shaft misalignment and 1 degree angular misalignment. The inserts don't last very long if they exceed that.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 23, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Pull up the specs on the Lovejoy site. As I recall, the running tolerance on those couplings is something like .01" maximum shaft misalignment and 1 degree angular misalignment. The inserts don't last very long if they exceed that.



I was just there and it looks like you are correct. Is there more to this than I am seeing? What are you suggesting? If you can get them that close to perfectly lined up what is the point of having the coupling?

I'm not so naive to think that I can get it within a 100th of an inch but what will happen? They claim fail safe and will still function without any rubber elastomer. I'll look for an adapter after I figure out what I have to bolt to and see if anything is available.


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## Mac88 (Aug 24, 2012)

Rattler05.5 said:


> I was just there and it looks like you are correct. Is there more to this than I am seeing? What are you suggesting? If you can get them that close to perfectly lined up what is the point of having the coupling?
> 
> I'm not so naive to think that I can get it within a 100th of an inch but what will happen? They claim fail safe and will still function without any rubber elastomer. I'll look for an adapter after I figure out what I have to bolt to and see if anything is available.



The coupling serves several purposes, among them ease of assembly and vibration dampening. Imaging trying to install a solid coupling between the two shafts in the limited space available. Yes, the coupling will function without the spider (fail-safe), but it will beat itself to death if continuously run that way. You can certainly build your own engine/pump mount, but to prevent unexpected failure of the coupling, engine or pump bearing failure or whatever, the mount must be built to pretty close tolerances. I'd be curious to know if your engine has a place to mount an adapter separate from the standard base mounting holes.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 24, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> I'd be curious to know if your engine has a place to mount an adapter separate from the standard base mounting holes.



I doubt it. This seems to be the reason they aren't used as often as horizontal engines. 
I see your point about solid coupling the two together. I will let you all know what I go with when I get that far! 
Thanks for the insight


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## Mac88 (Aug 24, 2012)

Rattler05.5 said:


> I doubt it. This seems to be the reason they aren't used as often as horizontal engines.
> I see your point about solid coupling the two together. I will let you all know what I go with when I get that far!
> Thanks for the insight



No problem. I'm sure it's do-able, since they obviously make splitters with vertical shaft engines. My guess is that the pump mount is incorporated into the engine mount or is bolted to the engine using the engine mount bolt pattern. I've never looked an one so I can't really say. My old splitter uses a dump truck hydraulic unit, belt driven (originally pto driven off the transmission), so there's no mechanical connection between the engine and pump other than the drive belt. I'm sure you'll come up with a solution.


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## Patrick62 (Aug 24, 2012)

*put the specs somewhere else*

I have built engine/pump adapters bunches of times. I can guarantee that I ain't even close to perfect. You can cut the "legs" to the same length, make the plates for each side. That gets things close enough to parallel. Then hose clamp the coupler together and tack weld the legs. Nothing to it.


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## Mac88 (Aug 24, 2012)

Patrick62 said:


> I have built engine/pump adapters bunches of times. I can guarantee that I ain't even close to perfect. You can cut the "legs" to the same length, make the plates for each side. That gets things close enough to parallel. Then hose clamp the coupler together and tack weld the legs. Nothing to it.



Hey, if that works for you, who am I to argue? Go for it.


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## jags (Aug 24, 2012)

Use a pipe clamp to keep the two pieces (and spider) aligned for the lovejoy. 

Not the best pics of the mount but you can see it:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/194745.htm


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## Kevin in Ohio (Aug 24, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Pull up the specs on the Lovejoy site. As I recall, the running tolerance on those couplings is something like .01" maximum shaft misalignment and 1 degree angular misalignment. The inserts don't last very long if they exceed that.



Went through this with my splitter build. In a perfect world you want zero but from my experience it is impossible. I tried to set mine up using a dial indicator. Motor shaft was out .005 (orbit)which was fine. Hydraulic pump was a different story. .030 out(orbiting) and the outside of the coupler makes it worse do to the increase in diameter. IMPOSSIBLE to align dead on. Call the manufacturer and they sent another, same thing. Distributer checked his Haldex pumps and they were the same to worse. I'd HIGHLY recommend checking your parts(shafts) BEFORE installing the couplers to see what you're working with. It's easy to say get them perfect, but I found it just wasn't possible.

I ran a bolt circle in setting mine up within .005 and ran it. It was basically the best I could do with what's out there. One thing that IS very important is to deburr your Lovejoy or Magnalloy couplers. They seem to have quit doing this at the factories and it'll chew up your spiders in a hurry. 

You can check your alignment with a straightedge briding the 2 as well. Just look for light under the edges.


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## Rattler05.5 (Jan 9, 2013)

Going to bump this up again. I'm finally getting going on it.

Here is the beam. I cut it off at 9' long. It's probably overkill but it was free. The top and bottom are 1/2" thick and the middle is 3/8" thick. It's heavy!
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8405_zps4ed20743.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8405_zps4ed20743.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
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I know the fittings on this are not safe. They will be removed. I put a gauge on it prior to dismantling it and it never could go over 900psi. My pump is a 3000psi 28gpm that will serve this well and I will not risk the safety of galvanized pipe fittings. 

The cylinder appears to be a 5"x30" with a 2" rod. It was left to sit for years with the rod partially extended so it rusted. It's not shiny any more but I was able to sand it all smooth. I don't know if it will survive under pressure or not. It may have ruined the seals but I'm going to try it before buying a new one. 

When it's done I want the work platform to be about 36" tall. It will split out the back. 

I would also like to make a 4 way or a 6 way wedge. I have some 1/2"x9" flat iron. Would that be strong enough with that width? Usually you see 1" sharpened to a point but it's not ever that wide(long?). I don't know if it will stand up to the forces of a 4-way or 6-way wedge.

I need to start tearing this apart and see what kind of engineering I need to do to get the pump mounted to it. 
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_7971.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_7971.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

Any thoughts on the wedge? 1/2"x9" flat iron strong enough? If not what would you suggest? 1"x? I'm thinking 14" tall, Is that too much strain on the wedge?


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## wndwlkr (Jan 10, 2013)

1-1/2" would be ideal with the size you're wanting, make it long enough to set it 5" down in your beam and weld it in & then box in the end of your beam. that will be very strong! :msp_thumbup:


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## Rattler05.5 (Jan 10, 2013)

I was hoping to make it an adjustable wedge so it would go all the way through the 10" beam and 12-14" above the beam. Could I laminate 3 pieces of the 1/2" to make 1 1/2"? I know it's not the same as 1 1/2". 

hmmmm


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## jags (Jan 10, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> I was hoping to make it an adjustable wedge so it would go all the way through the 10" beam and 12-14" above the beam. Could I laminate 3 pieces of the 1/2" to make 1 1/2"? I know it's not the same as 1 1/2".
> 
> hmmmm



For an adjustable wedge I would highly recommend taking a look at the design of the timberwolf splitters. They are the most straight forward and proven adjustable wedge design that I know of. If it were me, I would emulate what they are doing. Just one dudes opinion.


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## merlynr (Jan 10, 2013)

This may be helpful. The bracket was bought from northern tools. I aligned everything up before I drilled holes etc. Been working for 4 years now.


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## Rattler05.5 (Jan 11, 2013)

jags said:


> For an adjustable wedge I would highly recommend taking a look at the design of the timberwolf splitters. They are the most straight forward and proven adjustable wedge design that I know of. If it were me, I would emulate what they are doing. Just one dudes opinion.



Thanks jags, that looks like a very strong wedge and I can use the material that I have. 

Here is where I am at today. Obviously this will be topped off with plate and finish welded. I will put another 1/2" plate that has been sharpened on the front of this as you can see with the lines. It will tie into the web of the I beam and the top and bottom plates. I think it will be plenty strong. If not, I will rip it off and start over! :msp_sneaky: Then I will fab a 4 way wedge that slides over the top of this. Maybe the adjustability will come later<$$
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8406_zpsd79e3386.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8406_zpsd79e3386.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
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## wndwlkr (Jan 11, 2013)

That will be very strong, you'll like it. Looks good !


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## jags (Jan 14, 2013)

I know it might sound crazy, but you will probably want to put a support or two inside of that V. You have enough surface area that eventually you will start to see the wedge cup.


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## Rattler05.5 (Jan 14, 2013)

jags said:


> I know it might sound crazy, but you will probably want to put a support or two inside of that V. You have enough surface area that eventually you will start to see the wedge cup.



Not crazy at all. I was planning on it but then thought that most of the "work" was in starting the split with the sharp end. I didn't think it took much force to pry the 2 halves apart. I will cap the top and I will add something in the middle since it's 14" tall. That's a lot of distance between the two supported ends. 
I need to get more steel; hopefully today. 

I'm not looking forward to making the sharp edge. I might try to whittle it down with the torch like I've seen on here. Then finish with hours on the grinder. 

Thanks for the input!


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## jags (Jan 14, 2013)

I have roughed in an edge with the torch and then finished it with the grinder. Lots of noisy work.


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 14, 2013)

Run a bead or two right up the center and sharpen that, it will be harder than steel alone.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Rattler05.5 (Jan 14, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> Run a bead or two right up the center and sharpen that, it will be harder than steel alone.:hmm3grin2orange:



Our pine trees aren't that hard to start with. Shouldn't be a problem.


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## Jakers (Jan 14, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> Run a bead or two right up the center and sharpen that, it will be harder than steel alone.:hmm3grin2orange:



my dad made our splitter back in the 80s. he started with a one inch plate and then laid a bunch of beads that tapered in. last 3-6 beads were hard surface rod. never had to sharpen it in 30 years.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 1, 2013)

Made some nice progress today. I got the mower all cut up. I couldn't think of a way to use all of the stuff that I needed without a lot of work so I left it pretty much whole. Minus the steering wheel. :cool2:
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/IMG_8831.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_8831.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8831.jpg"/></a> 
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/IMG_8830.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_8830.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8830.jpg"/></a>
Not sure how I will place it on the rest of the splitter.
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/IMG_8832.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_8832.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8832.jpg"/></a>
It's a behemoth!
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/IMG_8840.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_8840.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8840.jpg"/></a>
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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 1, 2013)

<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/IMG_8834.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_8834.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8834.jpg"/></a>
Looks like I need to finish welding this seam.
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/IMG_8837.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_8837.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8837.jpg"/></a>


*Thoughts?*


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 1, 2013)

I just ordered the lovejoy L-100 couplings and spider. They are rated for 23HP and should arrive next week.


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## jags (Feb 4, 2013)

Keep that engine on the low side (remember though, you gotta hang a pump under it). How thick is that push plate? Mine is 1-1/4" thick and the corners are bent a bit for reference.


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## jthornton (Feb 4, 2013)

That push plate looks wimpy compared to the wedge... that said that thing is going to be huge. With 20 something hp what size pump are you using and is that a 4" cylinder?

John


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 4, 2013)

The cylinder is recycled and I just got it fully extended and set it up there to see some distances. I haven't even started to build the push plate. I was thinking braced/gusseted 1/2" though so maybe I need to up that a bit. 

I have a 28gpm pump with 20hp kohler. I think the cylinder is 4"x36".


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## jags (Feb 4, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> I was thinking braced/gusseted 1/2" though so maybe I need to up that a bit.



My suggestion - go thicker and still use bracing. Build it like you mean it. That one piece takes all the punishment that the splitter can hand out.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 4, 2013)

Better to be safe than sorry, overbuild it. If your running a 28GPM pump, try to keep all the hard 90 degree bends out of the system. Heat is going to be a factor when you start pushing that much fluid. If you have to have a 90 degree bend, use a long sweep. With a 4 inch cylinder it is going to be WAY fast.


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## jags (Feb 4, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> With a 4 inch cylinder it is going to be WAY fast.



Like - super splitter fast.:msp_scared:


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 4, 2013)

jags said:


> Like - super splitter fast.:msp_scared:




he was talking about splitting wood, not kindling.  Firesuit ready.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 4, 2013)

definately not making kindling. 
I will get a photo of the cylinder and check the rod diameter to figure out the speed but I am building somewhat assuming I will need to buy a new (larger) cylinder. I just don't have much faith in this old dog. It was parked for many years with they rod extended part way and it was rusty when I got it. Time will tell. 
I hate standing around waiting for the cylinder to cycle. I am hoping to be able to operate without being at 3600RPM and make it a little bit more enjoyable. I will be looking for a large volume fluid reservoir to help with the temps. I will stay away from 90s if at all possible.
Thanks for the input.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 4, 2013)

<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8851.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8851.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8851.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8852.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8852.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8852.jpg"/></a>
5.5" OD would make it a 4" cylinder right? The rod is 2".
I think I got the rod cleaned up pretty well but it is not chromed any more so it is vulnerable to rust if it's ever left exposed.


Speed calculations come to 
28 gpm 4" x36" stroke 2" rod
Extend Time= 4.2 sec. Retract Time= 3.2 sec. Cycle Time= 7.4 sec.
30" stroke
Extend Time= 3.5 sec. Retract Time= 2.6 sec. Cycle Time= 6.1 sec.


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## jags (Feb 4, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> 5.5" OD would make it a 4" cylinder right? The rod is 2".



Nope - that would more than likely be a 5" with 1/4" walls. Still gonna be a fast machine.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 4, 2013)

In that case I hope the cylinder holds fluid. 5" will give me enough force to use the 4 way and maybe a 6 way if it doesn't rip itself apart. 
Thanks Jags
5" x36" 2" rod
Extend Time= 6.5 sec. Retract Time= 5.5 sec. Cycle Time= 12 sec.
using 30" stroke
Extend Time= 5.5 sec. Retract Time= 4.6 sec. Cycle Time= 10.1 sec.


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## jags (Feb 4, 2013)

If you plan on using an auto return (detente) control valve, you can drill a 1/2" hole in the I-beam where you want the return to stop and drop a half inch bolt in there. When the shuttle hits it, it will create the pressure needed to pop the control valve back to center.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 4, 2013)

jags said:


> Nope - that would more than likely be a 5" with 1/4" walls. Still gonna be a fast machine.



28GPM ,5 inch cylinder auto cycle is what I put on mine. You'll be a happy camper.  If you do the 4 or 6 way, make it removeable or where you don't have to use it with a cylinder or something. The knotty stuff will give you fits and takes more force than people think. Stairstepped wedges ease the strain and do better. There is just a lot of surface area if you try to do it all at once.


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## jags (Feb 4, 2013)

I am also a 5" cylinder guy, but only running 16 gpm. That will change if the pump ever gives me a problem.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 4, 2013)

How's this?
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8859.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8859.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8859.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8860.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8860.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8860.jpg"/></a>

Beefy, still not done though.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 8, 2013)

Today's progress. Made a run to the salvage yard and got a 30 gallon tank for hydraulic fluid. Even comes with a nice mount, should work very well. After trading them for 80lbs of batteries it was $32. Score.
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8876.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8876.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8876.jpg"/></a>
Trying to keep the weight as far forward as possible to bring the axle forward and out of the way when splitting. The hydraulic tank will be on the opposite side of the front.
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8875.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8875.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8875.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8874.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8874.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8874.jpg"/></a>
This will make the cylinder controls and the engine controls very accessible. I think I will like it. 
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8873.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8873.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8873.jpg"/></a>


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## wndwlkr (Feb 8, 2013)

Looks good , you'll like the big tank,mounts are always good also. if you plan on a bigger pump later, weld in a 3" bung for a big strainer & you'll be ready to go. nice build you got going !:msp_thumbup:


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## Patrick62 (Feb 8, 2013)

opcorn:


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 8, 2013)

28gpm should satisfy for quite some time. 
I'm having fun.


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## Sandhill Crane (Feb 9, 2013)

You asked for thoughts so just floating this out there. When splitting the push plate flexes some, vertically and horizontally. Not much, but some. It appears in the photo that your cylinder rod is welded directly to the push plate, where I believe most are pinned or bolted, front and rear, allowing some movement one plane or another. Welding directly, if that's what I'm seeing, may load the cylinder rod with undesirable side stresses. Does anyone else think that might be an issue?


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 9, 2013)

*A*



Sandhill Crane said:


> You asked for thoughts so just floating this out there. When splitting the push plate flexes some, vertically and horizontally. Not much, but some. It appears in the photo that your cylinder rod is welded directly to the push plate, where I believe most are pinned or bolted, front and rear, allowing some movement one plane or another. Welding directly, if that's what I'm seeing, may load the cylinder rod with undesirable side stresses. Does anyone else think that might be an issue?



I agree that it might pose a problem. It came off of another homemade splitter as it is and I have added lots of additional gussets. I have $0 into the cylinder at this point so I guess we will all have to wait and see. The cylinder came off of a loader of some type so it has a half circle welded to the end of the rod, then that is welded to the 1" plate, gusseted with 1/2". 
I will remain transparent about how it works and we will all watch and laugh if it rips itself apart.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 14, 2013)

Here is the valve I have. Again, left over from the old ugly splitter that I'm cannibalizing. I think it has 1" inlet and 1 1/2" outlet. I'm confident it will flow what I have. I wish I had unlimited funds to buy an auto valve but I don't. :/ 
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8902.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8902.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8902.jpg"/></a>
The only markings show Gresen Minneapolis. It's probably left over from a loader.
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8903.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8903.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8903.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8905.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8905.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8905.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s250.beta.photobucket.com/user/papagrande2001/media/Splitter%20build/IMG_8904.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8904.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8904.jpg"/></a>
Think it'll work? I'm getting ready to order up some hoses, filter assembly, screen filter, etc.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 14, 2013)

jags said:


> My suggestion - go thicker and still use bracing. Build it like you mean it. That one piece takes all the punishment that the splitter can hand out.



The push plate is now 2" thick with 1/2" angled braces on the back side to keep it straight. Can't imagine what it weighs.  I'll get some photos soon to show how I made it.


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## jags (Feb 14, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> The push plate is now 2" thick with 1/2" angled braces on the back side to keep it straight. Can't imagine what it weighs.  I'll get some photos soon to show how I made it.



Now yer talking.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 14, 2013)

2" thick!
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8925-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8925-1.jpg"/></a>
Clearance for the 4-way wedge.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8926.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8926.jpg"/></a>
Startings of the slip on 4-way wedge. The horizontal wings will be stepped to help with the force it takes to split it.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8928.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8928.jpg"/></a>
It's freakin' big. Valve, cylinder, and motor are pretty much in place. The tank will be opposite the motor. I'm really hoping the axle will need to be pretty far forward at the Center of Gravity to make lots of room out back for splitting.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8930.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8930.jpg"/></a>
Pump mount. I will get it all lined up "perfectly" before welding it solid. I hope it will work. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8932.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8932.jpg"/></a>
I'm not a professional welder and I know it. Vertical welds suck!


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 22, 2013)

*Parts coming!*

Allright, I ordered bunche$ of parts from surplus center. New oil and air filter for the motor. It should all arrive next week and I hope to make some tangible progress.
I ordered a return filter, suction strainer, hoses, weld in flanges, adapters for the different sizes, tee for the pressure gauge, breather for the tank, etc. 

I will need to fill holes on the tank and weld in new flanges for the return and pump suction strainer. 

I have a mountain of Iso 46 hydraulic oil waiting. Bomgaars had the 5 gallon buckets $10 off this week. With a 30 gallon tank I bought 30 gallons of hydraulic oil, after filling the cylinder and hoses will that allow enough headroom in the tank?


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## jags (Feb 25, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> With a 30 gallon tank I bought 30 gallons of hydraulic oil, after filling the cylinder and hoses will that allow enough headroom in the tank?



Reserve 5 and see where that sets you. It is easier to add than it is to suck it back out.


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## Jakers (Feb 25, 2013)

best start with something like 10 or 15. the oil will become foamy with all the trapped air being pushed out into the lines and expand quite a bit. when you first fire it up keep it at a low idle and let it run a minute or so just to get the air out of the pump, lines, and filter. then with the engine still at an idle slowly open a valve to start filling the cylinder and pushing the air out of the other side. when you get to the end dont hold the valve open trying to force more fluid in with the compressed air in it. this only compunds the problem. at this point check your oil to make sure you still have 3-4 inches in your tank. I dont recall the size of your cyl off hand but even a 6x36 only takes 5 gallons to fill. now return the cyl to the retracted position agian not holding the valve open at the end. do this a couple times and then shut it down for an hour or two to let the foamy oil seperate out the air. 

Air is very hard on your pump so getting it all out is critical. dont build pressure and expect the 2nd stage to work properly if theres still air in the system 

now there will still be air in the system so when you re-fire it keep things slow again and cycle the cyl a few more times. monitoring your oil. if still foamy after 5 min or so then let it sit again. after this you should be able to safely fill your tank to the 25 gal mark. save 5 gal for refilling if you have a leak or a break down. now you should be set to try pressuring it up some. if you dont have a pressure gauge in your plan get one installed someplace easy to see. a gauge is your friend in telling whether things are working properly or not.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thank you for that insight. I wouldn't have expected the foamy oil. I will go easy at first and be sure that everything is working before puting much volume in the tank. 
Again, Thank you for the help.


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## Jakers (Feb 25, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Thank you for that insight. I wouldn't have expected the foamy oil. I will go easy at first and be sure that everything is working before puting much volume in the tank.
> Again, Thank you for the help.



have to have enuf so you dont suck a hole in the oil too, just make sure you leave _some_ space is all. if you have a 30 gal tank 15 will work great to start. the only reason to have more than about 7 or so is to keep oil temps down


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## walkerdogman85 (Feb 25, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing a video cause I am going to order a 28 gpm for my splitter build!


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 26, 2013)

Parts came in today. I got the tank all prepared. I had to seal off a couple of holes and got all the flanges in. I put a 1/4" bronze breather right by the fill spout for venting.

Here is the 3" female flange for the strainer.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9003.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9003.jpg"/></a>

Here is the 1 1/4" for the return line. Hopefully it will hold. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9004.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9004.jpg"/></a>
Tomorrow I will finish up the cylinder back stop and start running lines.... Finally!


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## dave_dj1 (Feb 27, 2013)

Awesome! It's a good feeling isn't it?


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 27, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> Awesome! It's a good feeling isn't it?


Thanks for following along,
It feels good but sometimes it feels good to drive to the store and bring home something that simply works!

I ordered two 3/4"x1" elbows for the pressure lines. Will come Monday probably. :msp_unsure:

I got the tank mounted, the cylinder butt stop welded on, some lines run and some fittings in the tank. I will get the pump all set where it needs to be tomorrow. I need to run to Ace Hardware to get some better bolts for final assemply. I will also finish the 4-way wedge. 

The pieces are getting smaller that I still need. 

I am still looking for an old ragged trailer that I can cannibalize to get an axle, lights, receiver, etc. off of. If I get it done before I find one I will just pick it up with the tractor to test it out. 

There will be video!


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## dave_dj1 (Feb 28, 2013)

Check CL for a small trailer or boat trailer


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## jthornton (Feb 28, 2013)

I used a rear axle from a Dodge K car and fabricated some spring hangers to mount it to my frame. I found mine with good rubber and hubcaps at a local junkyard for $80 which is much cheaper than using new trailer parts.

John


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## Jredsjeep (Feb 28, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I used a rear axle from a Dodge K car and fabricated some spring hangers to mount it to my frame. I found mine with good rubber and hubcaps at a local junkyard for $80 which is much cheaper than using new trailer parts.
> 
> John



funny i used the exact same thing because i had a k car i was parting out. you dont see them in yards anymore but i found saturn wheels fit just fine, trouble is they are dissapearing to now.

you can get nice 15 in wheels with a wider tire easily then, i can get new tire/wheel combos in the yard for 20 each when i need them.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 28, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> Check CL for a small trailer or boat trailer





jthornton said:


> I used a rear axle from a Dodge K car and fabricated some spring hangers to mount it to my frame. I found mine with good rubber and hubcaps at a local junkyard for $80 which is much cheaper than using new trailer parts.
> 
> John



I have been looking at both of these options. I went to the junk yard and the lady wanted $150 for a 2wd axle and $250 for a 4wd axle. I tried explaining that it would be neither to get the rear floating beam axle from minivan or something similar. She didn't care, if it was 2wd it was $150. I need to go back and ask someone else to see if I get a different answer. 

I have seen a couple of boat trailers, with free boat, on craigslist but I'm not sure it would be strong enough. They are typically a 4 lug, small tire package. 

My best buy it looks like right now is a pickup box trailer. $250 seems to be going price for a beat up old dog. 

The only other option that I really like is this miniature trailer but I don't know if the axle is able to be widened and if it would hold the weight. My splitter is heavy! 
I like all the lights, the receiver, axle, tires, fenders, etc that I could use. Very nice custom trailer, but it's tiny!
MOTORCYCLE PULL BEHIND TRAILER

I hate waiting on parts......


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 28, 2013)

Don't forget to look at farm equipment too. I got an old 10 ton running gear that had a junk wagon top on it. Ended up selling the scrap and front axle and I have $25.00 in it. Can't beat that for a 5 ton axle and implement tires. This one had adjustable width as well. No weight issue now.


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## jags (Feb 28, 2013)

Kevin - I never tire of seeing pics of that splitter.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 28, 2013)

Kevin, I would never tire of video of your splitter!  

I found one hay rack on craigslist last year and I put it to use.  I get your point though. I'm trying to be creative.
I think I gave $300 for it in poor condition. It still needs the bed replaced. It sags and has holes in it.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_7925.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_7925.jpg"/></a>


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 28, 2013)

What kind of weight do you think this would hold? I would scrap almost everything but the axle and tires. Maybe I could negotiate the price down because the plywood is rotted. 
Trailer


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## jags (Feb 28, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> What kind of weight do you think this would hold? I would scrap almost everything but the axle and tires. Maybe I could negotiate the price down because the plywood is rotted.
> Trailer



That could be as low as a 800 pound axle or as high as a 1500#. Hard to tell from the pic.


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 28, 2013)

jags said:


> That could be as low as a 800 pound axle or as high as a 1500#. Hard to tell from the pic.



Sadly, I don't even think it would be good enough at 1500lbs. I guess I need to weigh this thing!


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## jthornton (Feb 28, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> What kind of weight do you think this would hold? I would scrap almost everything but the axle and tires. Maybe I could negotiate the price down because the plywood is rotted.
> Trailer



If the springs have 4 leaves I'd bet they are 1750 pound rated each. IIRC the 1200 pound trailer springs had 3 leaves. For some silly reason I went with the 1750's on my splitter build. In any case it looks like a commercial built trailer with some wood tossed on so there might be a rating stamped on it somewhere.

Edit: I looked at your beam photos and it looks like a W10 x 45 so that is 45lbs per foot which means it weighs in at 405 lbs for 9'. 

John


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 28, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Kevin, I would never tire of video of your splitter!
> 
> I found one hay rack on craigslist last year and I put it to use.  I get your point though. I'm trying to be creative.
> I think I gave $300 for it in poor condition. It still needs the bed replaced. It sags and has holes in it.
> <a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_7925.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_7925.jpg"/></a>



Wagon gears sometimes can be found cheap but the oddball stuff can be had at steals as people aren't looking at the wheels and axles, just the junk on top of it. If your looking for leaf springs, generally the farm stuff is out. Personally I prefer a splitter to be solid so it doesn't sag when you put the big stuff on it. I like the added lift as my beam is at 40 inches which is perfect for me. I don't tow mine for long distances either so highway speeds are a non issue.

Feed grinders, fertilizer buggys, silage wagons go for cheap around here when they are broke or rusted out. Lots of scrap to offset the costs too so check out your local ag stuff is what I try to tell people. Generally you can pick the whole thing up for what the tires would cost you.


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## dave_dj1 (Feb 28, 2013)

You can buy a new axle at Tractor supply too. May be the cheapest option. Harbor freight has small trailers too. Sometimes new for a few dollars more will be well worth it.


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## Jredsjeep (Feb 28, 2013)

Another option is to do what I did on my trailer. I made my own axle with 2 1/2 heavy pipe running across. I then took some 6 inch long heavy angle iron and welded it on both sides for the drop. This gave me an area to bolt on some rear spindles from a car or minivan. Spindles will probably be much cheaper than an axle. I can take a pic of my trailer I made this way about 17 years ago and still use all the time.


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## bigblackdodge (Feb 28, 2013)

opcorn:
Really enjoying this build and all the help from you other AS Members! Awesome! I have a 35Ton Huskee, but I would love to do some major alterations on it! First being to swap ends with the wedge and pusher, although it wouldn't be very useful in the vertical postion anymore!


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## Rattler05.5 (Feb 28, 2013)

This may be my best choice at $300. It has a nice enough jack but the lights probably won't work. 
Trailer- An Old Bed of a Truck,

I looked into building my own axle but the beam, spindles, hubs, wheels, tires, springs, receiver, lights and wiring add up pretty quickly. 

I almost had a trailer for $150 that was really ragged so nobody wanted it. Would have been perfect for me. 

I went and looked at the motorcycle trailer today. It was very nice for pulling behind a motorcycle but way too light of duty for my splitter. Single leaf spring and the tires were rated for 600lbs each maybe.


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## Jredsjeep (Mar 1, 2013)

thats an old chevy bed and it looks farly straight with only light rust. if it is i am willing to bet you could get more than the cost of the trailer back from it. those 67-72 chevy parts are getting $$$ lately.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 1, 2013)

think that truck bed will be too heavy. Go with a new axle from TSC or such.


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 1, 2013)

I would only use the axle and springs. Maybe the receiver.


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 1, 2013)

adjustable 4-way wedge is done. As it sits it is 6.5" to the horizontal split. Anything smaller than that certainly doesn't need to be split 4 ways. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9010.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9010.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9011.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9011.jpg"/></a>

I have 15 gallons of oil in it to get enough in the bottom of the tank to be sure it doesn't cavitate. It took almost 5 gallons to just fill the cylinder. Figured I might as well fill it up since the hoses are off. Stay ahead of the air in the oil. I can run the return line and mount the filter and then I'll be waiting for the two dumb swivel 90s. Ugh.


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## jags (Mar 1, 2013)

That wedge looks good, but I would flip it around. Have the angles towards the beam. If the wood grain is not perfectly straight, the angles would allow the wedge to ride up the original. As you have it now, it will try to cut.


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## nathon918 (Mar 1, 2013)

jags said:


> That wedge looks good, but I would flip it around. Have the angles towards the beam. If the wood grain is not perfectly straight, the angles would allow the wedge to ride up the original. As you have it now, it will try to cut.



he has it correct, if he flips it, then the bevel on the "wings" will wedge the wood between the underside of the wings and the beam, which would cause the 4 way to ride up the wedge.

look at any other 4 way, its not the prettiest but he has it right!


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## jags (Mar 1, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> he has it correct, if he flips it, then the bevel on the "wings" will wedge the wood between the underside of the wings and the beam, which would cause the 4 way to ride up the wedge.
> 
> look at any other 4 way, its not the prettiest but he has it right!



Yeah - I know that the industry usually has them the same way, but I helped a friend that rented a splitter with a slip on 4 way. In wood that was not straight grained it was constantly trying to cut the grain. We found that if we flipped the 4 way, it would allow the 4 way to ride up the original wedge and follow the grain better. YMMV.

Thinking about it - it could have just been on a case by case thing. This was on some pretty tough (twisted) white oak. We probably shouldn't have been using the 4 way to begin with.


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## nathon918 (Mar 1, 2013)

jags said:


> Yeah - I know that the industry usually has them the same way, but I helped a friend that rented a splitter with a slip on 4 way. In wood that was not straight grained it was constantly trying to cut the grain. We found that if we flipped the 4 way, it would allow the 4 way to ride up the original wedge and follow the grain better. YMMV.
> 
> Thinking about it - it could have just been on a case by case thing. This was on some pretty tough (twisted) white oak. We probably shouldn't have been using the 4 way to begin with.



its not a problem with the slip ons, but he wrote adjustable 4 way for the pic so im figuring mounted to a cylinder or pinned in the back at a certain height, not allowing it to move up or down


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 1, 2013)

Awesome! Keep up the good work.


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 1, 2013)

Well, it's all ready to split (or self destruct) if I only had those darn elbows. Two stinking 90 degree elbows are keeping my from putting it to work. I put all 30 gallons of oil in it and I'm still not sure if it's quite enough. I will keep looking for a trailer in the mean time. I would like to have it towable when I try it out instead of moving it around with the tractor and loader. 

Have a good weekend!


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 2, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Well, it's all ready to split (or self destruct) if I only had those darn elbows. Two stinking 90 degree elbows are keeping my from putting it to work. I put all 30 gallons of oil in it and I'm still not sure if it's quite enough. I will keep looking for a trailer in the mean time. I would like to have it towable when I try it out instead of moving it around with the tractor and loader.
> 
> Have a good weekend!



I felt the same way with my first splits...kind of like testing out one of your own 
I'm working on posting a video of mine in action this morning.
dave


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 4, 2013)

I think it is all ready to try out tomorrow when the elbows come in. Hopefully UPS will come early morning!
Here are the pieces to try it out with.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9022.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9022.jpg"/></a>

Here is the side shot. I don't know how exactly I will make the wedge adjustable. I thought a piece of steel vertically behind it with holes for "notches" and a pin. Seems kind of tedious for each piece. We shall see what happens. The rear set of I-beams will go away when it's sitting on wheels. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9024.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9024.jpg"/></a>

Here is the other end with motor and hydraulic tank. Without a tongue or outfeed table it is just over 10' long. (Wow)
I have 30 gallons of oil in it and I think it could take 4-5 more. The tank is labeled 30 gallons at 95% capacity and the cylinder, pump, hoses, and filter took almost 5 gallons. I probably should have put the return line in lower but I didn't. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9025.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9025.jpg"/></a>

Pump side of the engine. I will finish weld it once I know it's aligned perfectly. This I-beam appears to be the center of gravity which I'm thrilled about. It puts the axle way forward of where I will be standing to work out back. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9026.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9026.jpg"/></a>

Here is the opposite side with the return filter and return port on the tank. It's all 1 1/4" line.
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9028.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9028.jpg"/></a>

I know 90* elbows are not ideal but it makes it cleaner routing of the hoses. The pressure lines are all 1". See also the gauge. 
<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9029.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9029.jpg"/></a>
I can't wait for the brown truck!


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## wndwlkr (Mar 4, 2013)

Looks good rattler, I know what ya mean about the brown truck. Just like christmas.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 4, 2013)

c'mon brown!
Awesome looking machine.


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks gentleman. It's not pretty but I hope it's functional. 

I forgot to mention that I also have a line on a old pickup box trailer. The guy needs a couple of days to clean it out. LOL. 
He only wants $100 for it though and he said it takes a 2" ball, has lights, good tires, and even a title!
I'm hoping to go look at it on Wed, if he can get it cleaned out by then. Seriously, how much crap can you pile in a pickup box?


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## bigblackdodge (Mar 4, 2013)

That's looking Awesome Rattler05.5! Who cares if it's pretty or not? Functionality is what it's all about! I bought a 35 Ton Huskee from TSC about 6 years ago. It is a Beast, but it's Awkward too! I really like this one your building! Hope the P/U Box frame works out for ya.


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## jags (Mar 5, 2013)

Way to go. I see no reason why that thing won't be a splitting beast. It just yells "Bring it".


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 5, 2013)

I know what you mean about the brown truck !!! My pump should be here tomorrow


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 5, 2013)

I wish I could say it worked flawlessly. 

It didn't. It appears as though my valve is bypassing pressure at about 800 psi. I could adjust it a little bit but it bottomed out the adjustment screw at 900 psi max so the pump never went into high pressure. I will play with it a little bit tomorrow but a new auto cycle valve may be in order. I hate it when you try to save a buck and just waste your time. 

Below is the video as promised of a piece that would split with 900 psi. 
:msp_mad::msp_mad::msp_mad:


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 6, 2013)

Ugh, Best I can do. It is here>
MVI_9054.mp4 Video by papagrande2001 | Photobucket


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 6, 2013)

Couldnt find the video.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 6, 2013)

awesome!


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## Jredsjeep (Mar 6, 2013)

wow you got to be stoked to see that moving!


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## jags (Mar 6, 2013)

Nice speed on the ram. Check fleebag for a detent valve. Sometimes they are on there pretty cheap. (some times, they are no cheaper than northern tool).


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 6, 2013)

walkerdogman85 said:


> Couldnt find the video.


It's the post just above yours. I can see it?? Anyone else having problems? I couldn't get it to embed though from photobucket.



Jredsjeep said:


> wow you got to be stoked to see that moving!


I am indeed. I just wish that it was working completely. The pump never kicked into high pressure because the valve was relieving the pressure at 900psi. Obviously not going to split much with a 4-way at that pressure. 



jags said:


> Nice speed on the ram. Check fleebag for a detent valve. Sometimes they are on there pretty cheap. (some times, they are no cheaper than northern tool).


I think I was expecting faster but it is a long cylinder. It moves pretty smoothly. Now to do a little bit of looking around for a valve before I drop $277 for the power beyond auto cycle. That's a lot of coin but it would be soooooo slick! Was that supposed to be fleebay? (ebay)

Thanks for the uplifting words. :msp_thumbup:


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## jthornton (Mar 6, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> It's the post just above yours. I can see it?? Anyone else having problems? I couldn't get it to embed though from photobucket.



Down in the beer cave on windoze XP I could not see the video because I think the link was not copied in total when I clicked on it. Out here in the shop on windoze 7 the link worked. Looking good!

John


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## jags (Mar 6, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> That's a lot of coin but it would be soooooo slick! Was that supposed to be fleebay? (ebay)
> 
> Thanks for the uplifting words. :msp_thumbup:



Yup. Northern tool is another source. And there are a couple of hydraulic outlet stores too.


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 6, 2013)

<a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/p9-6587-PBE1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo p9-6587-PBE1.jpg"/></a>
This is soooo pretty and expensive. It's only rated for 25GPM. Will that be ok for my 28GPM pump? 
I can get it for $277 with power beyond for an adjustment cylinder for the 4-way. The small cylinders and single spool low flow valves are pretty cheap. 

I'm trying to wrap my head around the hose routing for this thing so that I can order it all at once. I'll keep you all posted.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Mar 6, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> <a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/p9-6587-PBE1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo p9-6587-PBE1.jpg"/></a>
> This is soooo pretty and expensive. It's only rated for 25GPM. Will that be ok for my 28GPM pump?
> I can get it for $277 with power beyond for an adjustment cylinder for the 4-way. The small cylinders and single spool low flow valves are pretty cheap.
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my head around the hose routing for this thing so that I can order it all at once. I'll keep you all posted.



I asked the same question and was told by a guy who builds them for a living they hold up fine. No problems with mine and I have a 28 GPM pump. You'll like it


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 6, 2013)

All I saw we're your photos that you have uploaded not sure where to find the video?


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 6, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Ugh, Best I can do. It is here>
> MVI_9054.mp4 Video by papagrande2001 | Photobucket





walkerdogman85 said:


> Couldnt find the video.



Click this link above, it should take you to photobucket where the video is. 

I split a bunch of 28" long logs today. It does ok if only splitting in half. I will be able to use it until the new valve arrives. I haven't had the pump kick into high pressure once. I'm guessing with the valve relieving the pressure there is too much flow to kick over into high pressure. 

On and on it goes.


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 6, 2013)

I'm already seeing things that I might change. For instance, the 4-way wedge needs to be wider on the horizontal wings. It is not completely splitting the top from the bottom 1/4. I think it might help to set the horizontal knives back farther. I guessed at where they should be and I think it needs more. It will be easy enough to make another slip on 4-way that hopefully will work better. 

I still need to figure out the plumbing for the auto cycle valve and order all of that at once.


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## jthornton (Mar 6, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> On and on it goes.



At least your splitting wood!

I've yet to split one...

John


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 6, 2013)

I still couldn't find it all I saw was pics hopefully someone can pos it direct on here! But I bet it's a beast!!!


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## Rattler05.5 (Mar 6, 2013)

How about this?
MVI_9054 - YouTube

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K-iepatEch4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 7, 2013)

That thing looks like a beast! Glad to see your splitting!


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 7, 2013)

It doesn't even slow down while splitting I like it!!


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 8, 2013)

Time to update this. Looks like I threw some parts at a problem and it didn't fix anything. I've upgraded my valve and now I still have to fix the problem. 

I think my cylinder is bad. I present this video below for you to look at. If I max extend the cylinder rod, disconnect the return line, and try to extend or pressurize the extend side it passes(leaks) a lot of fluid at idle into the return side of the valve. I put the return hose into a bucket and saw lots of fluid, even at idle. 

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http:%2F%2Fvid250.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg261%2Fpapagrande2001%2FSplitter%2520build%2FIMG_1893.mp4">
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FbyEgTpnqjw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cylinder toast? Not sure if I can rebuild it, or if it's even worth it. I welded the rod in solid so it will likely do it some harm to get it out. :bang: 
What to do?


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 8, 2013)

I would say that you should be able to rebuild it. As long as the inside of the tube isn't all rusted or scratched up.
I know when I first put mine together there was a piece missing in the valve, it acted very similarly, do you have the power beyond port in and not using it? It perhaps could be part of the issue? Just a guess though.
One thing people may not know is that the valves can be mounted upside down and the handles turned back up. I know this is useless to you as you already have yours plumbed .
I hung my cylinder up by the rod end and took it apart that way. I used the overhead winch in the shop. I just wanted to look it over inside.


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 8, 2013)

The power beyond port is also the return to the tank. There is a relief in the valve but I'm not building pressure because it is leaking internally in the cylinder. I think I saw pressure of 2000psi once but now it only hits 1000. 

There should not be any fluid coming out of the return port when putting pressure to the split side correct?

The other issue is I have no idea who makes the cylinder. How would I start to rebuild it? (aside from opening it up)


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm no expert but I don't think there is all that much to them. A couple of O-rings and a seal. There should be some sort of wide scraper band but unless it's bad you can reuse it. The seal is just a wiper seal. 
As far as the valve, I assume you had the same trouble before you put the new valve on? I'm not all that familiar with the power beyond port. 
There is a guy JJ, over at Tractorbynet that is VERY good with hydraulics. I'm sure he would be glad to answer your questions. In the hydraulic section.
If I just crack my lift valve it will actually go down instead of up unless I pull it a little farther, I think it's the nature of the way valves are milled. They are precision milled.
good luck,
dave


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 8, 2013)

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_8851.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_8851.jpg"/></a>

not sure what to make of this cylinder. It looks like it is welded on with a smaller diameter then there are bolts into the face of the cylinder. I had tightened the bolts to slow the leaking at the very front. Not sure what kind of a packing/seal there is in there. 

If it necks down to a smaller diameter how can the seal on the butt of the rod come out? Just going to have to dive into it and see I guess. Cutting torch and hydraulic fluid galore!

The overall question will be how much time and money to dump into this cylinder. When I got it, it was rusted really badly. How well can it ever seal now? Any pitting will cause a leak onto the rod. Not a big deal if I can get the innards sealed up.

This is why I hate using used crap. It has not gone well yet! My wife finally asked today if it would have been cheaper to just buy a new one. :mad2:

The auto cycle valve sure is sweet though! :cool2:


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 8, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> I'm no expert but I don't think there is all that much to them. A couple of O-rings and a seal. There should be some sort of wide scraper band but unless it's bad you can reuse it. The seal is just a wiper seal.
> As far as the valve, I assume you had the same trouble before you put the new valve on? I'm not all that familiar with the power beyond port.
> There is a guy JJ, over at Tractorbynet that is VERY good with hydraulics. I'm sure he would be glad to answer your questions. In the hydraulic section.
> If I just crack my lift valve it will actually go down instead of up unless I pull it a little farther, I think it's the nature of the way valves are milled. They are precision milled.
> ...



Dave,
To answer your questions. When I had the old valve on it I could only achieve 900psi and I attributed it to the pressure relief in that valve not being adequate. Now I have a nice new auto cycle valve, sigh, and the same problem. I'm pretty sure I saw the gauge hit 2000 psi once but now I don't know how that could have happened. All of the pressure is being leaked internally into the return line when encountering any significant pressure. 

The pressure beyond in this valve is also the outlet back to the tank/filter if you don't have another valve connected in series. I read the directions.


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 8, 2013)

Well that leaves on thing left to do, tear her down and give her a look see. They hold more fluid than you think so be careful when you empty it. 
There's a video floating around youtube of the disasembly of a cylinder with a different kind of snap ring, it's internal and has to be accessed through the return port. 
Good luck
dave


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 8, 2013)

I've already sprayed fluid all over the place. I know that it holds almost 5 gallons of oil!! It's going to be a mess!

The bad part is that I don't have wheels under it and our tractor was hauled off for some work today so it will have to wait. I parked it right next to the wood pile before the tractor left thinking that the valve was going to fix it. Going to be a couple of weeks before anything happens. 

6-8" of snow is coming in tonight with a high of 12 tomorrow. It makes me wonder if cold fluid would build better pressure. ????


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## wndwlkr (Apr 8, 2013)

The pressure beyond in this valve is also the outlet back to the tank/filter if you don't have another valve connected in series. I read the directions.

The outlet port on any power beyond valve must return to tank. No matter how many you have in series. If your not using the power beyond just put the plug back in it . This may not fix your cylinder problem, but the valve will be plumbed correct. Hope this helps.


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 9, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I asked the same question and was told by a guy who builds them for a living they hold up fine. No problems with mine and I have a 28 GPM pump. You'll like it



If I plug the beyond port there would be nothing returning to the tank. Here is Kevin's and you see the pressure feed coming up from the bottom and the opposite side goes to his next valve, then to the filter/reservoir. I don't have another valve so it just goes through the filter and into the reservoir.

Looks like there is a hydraulic service place in Denver. I may see what they charge to rebuild the cylinder. I don't think it would be hard but I don't want to fight with getting the correct parts. Depending on what they charge they may just do it and test it. Or, on the other hand, they may see my rod and laugh at me. (wow, that sounds bad!!)


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 9, 2013)

I hate to ask but something just doesn't seem right about the way you have it plumbed, is this the valve you have? http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-6587.pdf
if so then you want the power beyond plug in and the out port back to tank. and then once you install the second valve from the power beyond port it too needs a return to tank line. I have no idea if this will help your problem but it could. It's kind of hard to make out in you video. 
If you look at kevins valve, he has one short line going to the other set of valves and another line going to return. 
good luck,
dave


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## bert0168 (Apr 9, 2013)

Rebuilding the cylinder is pretty easy. Any local hydraulic shop should be able to provide you with the proper seals once you get it apart.

The first one I did, I took it apart and took the cleaned parts into my local shop and they had the replacement seals on the shelf. The most recent one was an Energy cyl that I was able to source the seals from the manuf. Once you get a look at it, the replacement sequence is pretty straightforward.

As others have said. a look inside will tell you if it's worth it.

As far as plumbing, can't help you with that but as Dave said, maybe a better picture of the way you have it might help diagnose the problem your having.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Apr 9, 2013)

Here is another pic of mine. The return to the filter/tank on the Autocycle valve is the one with the 30 degree bend fitting.Power beyond port is the one with short hose as you said, From the video you posted it looks like you have no dedicated return other than the power beyond port? You need a return from the autocycle even if you have the power beyond port going to something else from what I was told. I have 3 lines going back for returns.















Here are the 3 lines coming together as I'm using a bypass (square shaped block)


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 12, 2013)

More pics.
I think the difference between Kevin's valve and mine is that I did not get the power beyond model. I don't know for sure if I will ever be able to afford a hydraulically adjustable wedge. So my out is also my power beyond. It's labeled OUT BYD
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_1906.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_1906.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_1908.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_1908.jpg"/></a>

For the cylinder. I'm wondering if someone has completely bastardized this cylinder at some point. Maybe they shortened a longer 5" with a nose from a smaller cylinder. I don't know why else this would be welded onto the front. I've never seen another like it. The dust wiper/seal will likely come out of the front but then how can a 5" "piston" or whatever the center thing is called, come out of the front of this mess. I will look through the 1" return port for something that releases inside but the piston has to come out to be rebuilt.
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_1904.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_1904.jpg"/></a>

Someone help me! 
I don't want to buy a new cylinder but maybe a cylinder shop could cut the front off of this and I could get it all corrected. That should be cheaper than a new 5" cylinder.

New cylinder; This seems to be the best buy. SAE 16 looks like 1" ports. 5x34x3 would be super nice for the return speed. I'll be in Lincoln next month so I wouldn't have to get a freight quote. Still $520!
Surplus Center - 5x34.5x3 DA HYD CYL


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## Kevin in Ohio (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm guessing you have a HC1 casting Prince valve? They use that casting for several models. I have it on both the valves in the above pics. Again, both my valves are "capable" to be power beyond but I have only the autocycle with the plug. When they are autocycle capable, you remove the cap where it says "OUT BYD" and screw in the bushing. It's a machined bushing with an oring and flat that seats inside the valve. Diverting the fluid so you can have the fluid power beyond. Not what I normally would think of calling a valve, more of a diverter to me.

Can't really see in your pics but you have no out port other than the one labeled "OUT BYD"? I guess I was assuming you did so that is where the confusion came on my part. Was it sold to you as a power beyond capable? I'm learning with this stuff too but I was under the impression you had to have another outgoing port with them. The power beyond port has like a 1" or 1 1/4"pipe thread and yours looks smaller than that.

On your cylinder I'm of no help there. Something looks amiss from the pic. I feel your pain on the cylinder. My Prince Gladiator 5" X 36" was $579.00 from SplitEZ but it is the heart of your machine along with the pump. It should last you your lifetime with a little common sense maintenance.


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## wndwlkr (Apr 12, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> <a href="http://beta.photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/p9-6587-PBE1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo p9-6587-PBE1.jpg"/></a>
> This is soooo pretty and expensive. It's only rated for 25GPM. Will that be ok for my 28GPM pump?
> I can get it for $277 with power beyond for an adjustment cylinder for the 4-way. The small cylinders and single spool low flow valves are pretty cheap.
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my head around the hose routing for this thing so that I can order it all at once. I'll keep you all posted.



I thought this was the actual valve you had. It dose have power beyond. As for that cylinder from surplus center, thats the one I put on the last build, & I just used another one today for another splitter For $520.00 you can't beat em. I really like the sae16 ports, they will flow alot of fluid. I know it's hard to bit the bullet, although it is the main part of your splitter. Good luck with what ever you decide.


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 12, 2013)

That's my fault,
I ended up getting the auto cycle without the power beyond. I had thought I would get it at first but this thing is really adding up and I don't think I will have another cylinder to adjust the 4-way.

I'm not sure what to do with this just yet. I will get the cylinder off and do some looking around for someone that has one for scrap price (hint, hint) that I can buy or I may end up buying the one listed above when I'm in Lincoln next month to save the 300lb shipping charge!


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 13, 2013)

Yeah your cylinder looks like someone made a mess of it. That sucks. Check on CL if you haven't already, there are a bunch listed here local so they do pop up from time to time. 
Maybe find a used splitter with a blown motor or pump or check scrap yards, run an add in the wanted section. I did that once for a wood furnace and bought a near new Newmac wood/coal for 200 bucks. The guy just wanted it out of his barn.
good luck,
dave

Looking back at your pic with the tape measure, does your cyl measure 5" overall? If so I would say it's a 4" bore. My 5" bore I just picked up measures 6".
4" are less expensive.


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 25, 2013)

*"New" cylinder!!!!*

Bringing this back up with great news! Today I brought this beauty home.
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/photo-15.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo photo-15.jpg"/></a>
It's a 6x36x3! AWESOME!!!!!
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/photo-16.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo photo-16.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/photo-17.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo photo-17.jpg"/></a>
It's a beautiful thing! I'm so relieved that I didn't have to buy a new one. This one appears to be leaking out the front seal a little bit but it's completely rebuildable if I choose. 
Now I need to torch out the old one and get some 1.5" pins and rebuild my butt stop and push plate. No bid deal. 
The only slightly disappointing thing is that it has 3/4" ports but that seems to be common. Our tractor is in the shop and the splitter is sitting a long way from the welder so it may take a while to get it mounted but as soon as possible!!! 
Super happy day!


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 26, 2013)

Good news! Where did you end up getting it?


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## Rattler05.5 (Apr 26, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> Good news! Where did you end up getting it?



From my neighbor. He had a matching pair off something he scrapped. One was on a splitter he has and this one was just sitting. He wouldn't let me pay him anything. It looks like surplus center has one that looks identical and its a Prince Gladiator cylinder. $978 plus freight. :msp_biggrin:
The rebuild kit is $90. I'm debating rebuilding it just for good measure. I'm sick of redoing things! The speed calculations were 9secs ext and 7 to retract I think. Just under 40 tons of force! :jester:


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 26, 2013)

shaweeeeet!


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## Rattler05.5 (May 2, 2013)

I freaking LOVE this thing!
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9191.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9191.jpg"/></a>
I took called our local hydraulic cylinder repair facility and they acted like a-holes and wanted $300+ to replace the seals but they "would have to open it up to know what it needs". 
I already knew what they needed, the seal kit part number and what it cost so I will do it MYSELF! Tough economy and they treat customers like dirt. Good luck!

This is all that is to it. 
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9190.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9190.jpg"/></a>
There are a bunch of seals in there. The hardest part was getting the 3" nut off of the end of the rod. I had to put the 1.5" pin in the rod, then that into a large pipe and parked my car on it to hold it down. We then put a 24" pipe wrench on the nut with a 10' (!) pipe and with some force it came right off. No rust when it's all submerged in oil! :msp_thumbup:
Everything looks good inside. No scoring and I will get a new nylon guide (blue) for the rod and it will be sooooo sweet. No more messing around!
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9193.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9193.jpg"/></a>
The seal kit is on back order but it was cheap, $45 shipped! Now I wait again, and cut up some blocks for this monster to consume soon!


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## dave_dj1 (May 2, 2013)

That thing is awesome! Did you check to see if there is an O ring on the inside of the sliding part (top)? 
Nothing worse than having to wait for parts.


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## wndwlkr (May 2, 2013)

You may want to consider some support under the end of the cylinder, so all the weight of the cylinder is not resting on the wiper when fully extended. Nice score & glad to see you rebuilding it yourself, really not much to them. looks way better than your old one for sure. Hope this helps.


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## Rattler05.5 (May 2, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> That thing is awesome! Did you check to see if there is an O ring on the inside of the sliding part (top)?
> Nothing worse than having to wait for parts.


Yes, I have it all just sitting waiting for the new seals to come in so that I don't screw it up! There is a seal and a wiper (dust seal) to seal the rod end. It didn't have any big tears or anything but this was the one visible spot it was leaking. 



wndwlkr said:


> You may want to consider some support under the end of the cylinder, so all the weight of the cylinder is not resting on the wiper when fully extended. Nice score & glad to see you rebuilding it yourself, really not much to them. looks way better than your old one for sure. Hope this helps.


Thanks for the input. It's leaps and bounds better than the other junk! Not much to them at all! $300+ to rebuild!?:mad2:
Support: I've really put some thought into this but when I think of all of the applications for a cylinder this big I don't think any provide support for the barrel when fully extended. The bearing ring (blue) keeps the piston centered and keeps the metal of the piston from scraping on the barrel and the opposite end is supported by my push plate. Theoretically the "u cup" is only keeping the weight of the cylinder itself and the oil from sagging in the middle when extended.

I just googled excavators and the main boom cylinder is pretty much horizontal and bigger/lots longer than mine and it's not supported. I don't know what to do. My old one was supported, though I don't know if it needed it.


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## nathon918 (May 3, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Yes, I have it all just sitting waiting for the new seals to come in so that I don't screw it up! There is a seal and a wiper (dust seal) to seal the rod end. It didn't have any big tears or anything but this was the one visible spot it was leaking.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input. It's leaps and bounds better than the other junk! Not much to them at all! $300+ to rebuild!?:mad2:
> ...



i have the 5 inch prince gladiator cylinder on mine, i also thought about putting a support on it, but then like you thought about all of the other applications where its not supported, also if it is supported, then if your beam flexes or bends, it will pull the rod downward while it extends, and its going to do alot more harm to the seals and rod, than if it were unsupported.
i bought mine new, about $700, id rather trash one or two sets of $80 seals over the life of the splitter, than trash the cylinder...


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## wndwlkr (May 3, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> i have the 5 inch prince gladiator cylinder on mine, i also thought about putting a support on it, but then like you thought about all of the other applications where its not supported, also if it is supported, then if your beam flexes or bends, it will pull the rod downward while it extends, and its going to do alot more harm to the seals and rod, than if it were unsupported.
> i bought mine new, about $700, id rather trash one or two sets of $80 seals over the life of the splitter, than trash the cylinder...



Thats a good point ! If your pretty sure your beam is going to flex & bend, then I sure would'nt worry about support. After your beam is trash just start over. Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you expected in the first place ! :msp_thumbup:


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## nathon918 (May 3, 2013)

wndwlkr said:


> Thats a good point ! If your pretty sure your beam is going to flex & bend, then I sure would'nt worry about support. After your beam is trash just start over. Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you expected in the first place ! :msp_thumbup:



not saying mines flexing or bending, i work pretty closely with a structural engineer where i work, i had him work out the stresses on the beam i was looking at, with the other support i added, and from the cylinder mount to the top of my wedge (14" high) over a 7ft span, @ 200% of rated output of my cylinder, the largest deflection (ends deflecting downward) was only .016", nowhere near enough to concern me.

there was also another reason why i decided against the mount, if your cylinder end mount, and the mount on the sled itsnt exactly the same height, then when the cylinder extends and contracts the height of the cylinder tube will move up and down...


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## Rattler05.5 (Jul 30, 2013)

This has been dormant too long!
It is working, but I would like to add some features as time goes by. The pump rarely ever goes into high pressure mode. The 6" cylinder has sooo much power to split anything pine, 4-ways, without even slowing down.
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9603.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9603.jpg"/></a>
That pile there was two separate instances of splitting and represents 2 hours time. It really runs through the wood. 
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9608.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9608.jpg"/></a>
I'm pretty happy with the 4-way wedge. It's working and seems to be sturdy. This pic shows how badly I need to build an outfeed table. The wood piles up quickly and it would be really good to send it out farther.
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9612.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9612.jpg"/></a>
I still have a LOT of wood to run through this. I'm thinking of hiring someone to split for me. Even if I pay them $25/cord to split I would make $75 a cord at minimum. They wouldn't care about breaking my splitter though. ??

Lastly is the video proof of this monster. By the video it is a 15 second 36" out and back cycle. I'm happy with that. Its not too fast to catch a finger in the wrong place but fast enough that you have to really hustle to keep it full of wood. 
<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ez4nROqiUBU?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Oliver1655 (Jul 31, 2013)

Looking good! I like how you left a gap for on the push face of the push sled to allow the sled to move past the front edge of the wedge. 

Something to consider reference your push sled. If your base were longer (extending underneath the cylinder) it would help to keep the sled parallel to the beam by limiting the rotation of the top of the sled backwards/the back of the sled downwards. This will decrease the wear on the sled keepers/guides under the beam as well as the beam. By decreasing the overall friction, it will also allow you to split at a lower pressure. I welded an 18" long piece of 3/4" cold rolled flat to the base of my sled when I noticed the extra wearing on my splitter & haven't noticed any significant wear since. BIG difference!


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## Rattler05.5 (Jul 31, 2013)

I will have to see how it goes. I broke the sled off the first day of splitting because of the force this creates. I had to beef it up already so we will see how it acts in time. I was limited in how long I could make the sled already but can redesign it all if I have to some day. I knew to make it as long as possible and I kind of did. It may not be enough. 
Thanks for your insight.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 2, 2013)

*It's all pine, but baby, I've got loads of it!*

I have gotten some splitting done with this beast. I had a knotty round that was almost too big for two of us to lift onto the beam and it hit 3000 psi or really close to it. That would be 40 tons of force. :msp_scared:It wasn't too happy but muscled through it. The only carnage was the horizontal split wing bent downward. Not sure why though. It will straighten easily. 
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9635.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9635.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9636-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9636-1.jpg"/></a>


I've run a lot of rounds through it but have lots more to go. I probably have all the wood I will burn this year already split, so this is either planning ahead or selling. I need to figure out a hard and fast method of making piles equal to a cord each. 
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9637-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9637-1.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9633.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9633.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9634.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9634.jpg"/></a>

Some issues; It seems to be getting pretty warm, even with 30+ gallons of oil. My return line puts the hot oil in at the top of the tank and the suction line is right at the bottom of the tank. I guess it's just the 28GPM of fluid that is moving all the time. It almost never hits high pressure mode on the pump.

Secondly, I have bent a pushrod on the engine and like any good farmer, I straightened that sucker back out and put it back in. I think it's bent again by the way it just ran when I popped that hunk out of the wedge. I'll open it up again to look; it's only four bolts to take the cover off and another one bolt to undo to get the push rod out. 
Why would it be bending the pushrod? Each time has been after running the engine for an hour plus of solid, hard splitting. Clean fresh oil and filter and fresh gas. Could the timing be off?

Lastly, I badly need to build the outfeed table. It's dumb to be standing on and tripping over the pile of splits as they accumulate. I will build that next week if at all possible.
I'm also trying to find lots of reasons to buy a Magnum 460 chainsaw. I'm tired of this little 029 super. I also need to educate myself on how to properly sharpen a chain. Mine curves to the right as it cuts, making it bind and causes a lot of heat. I'm a rookie, but I will read and learn. 
Have a good weekend!


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## half (Aug 2, 2013)

*bent splitter*

The reason for the bent horizontal splitter is that the splitter is only sharpened on the top side, like a wedge .When it hits the log the force is directed down bending the splitter. if it was sharpened equally on both sides that would not be a problem


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## CWME (Aug 2, 2013)

Been seeing some posts on the new MS461 over on the chainsaw forum and it looks impressive. I love my 460 but if i were buying a saw now it would be the 461. Best thing I did to learn sharpening was to get a new chain and try to make the dull one look like the new one. That got the picture in my head of what I was looking for. Visual learner... Worked for me. Now I have no issue with the file or the grinder getting stuff sharp.

Enjoyed your thread, thanks for sharing your build etc.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 7, 2013)

My outfeed table is almost done. Credit to bert0168, since I pretty much stole his idea. 

I need to add some more bracing to the very front edge. I think without it would bend under the stress of all the full rounds landing on it. I pitched the outside edge up to stop anything from rolling off. I now wish I had done more but time will tell if it's good enough. 
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9640.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9640.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9641.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9641.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9642.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9642.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_9643.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_9643.jpg"/></a>
This thing is insanely heavy. My tractor has fluid filled tires and it wants to pick the back wheels off the ground when lifting it up. I added a small detail; lifting points. I had been fighting with chains getting it balanced and lifting and I had had it! Now there is a chain attachment point on the top of the splitter wedge and in the back by the oil tank. Pull up, hook the two hooks and lift. 

Also, I got a new push rod today and put it in. Immediately turned it into a boomerang also. Then while fiddling with it I bent the other (intake or exhaust) pushrod. After doing some reading this is somewhat common and has to do with the hydraulic lifters and the "wrong" oil. I ordered new lifters, pushrods, KOHLER oil, and a new filter. Next week this should be up and splitting like crazy again.


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## Jakers (Aug 7, 2013)

Rattler05.5 said:


> Also, I got a new push rod today and put it in. Immediately turned it into a boomerang also. Then while fiddling with it I bent the other (intake or exhaust) pushrod. After doing some reading this is somewhat common and has to do with the hydraulic lifters and the "wrong" oil. I ordered new lifters, pushrods, KOHLER oil, and a new filter. Next week this should be up and splitting like crazy again.



an easy fix for the lifters pumpin up is to just let them stay pumped up all the way and adjust the valve lash to accommodate. 

this is an old small block chevy racing trick for classes that specify you have to run a hydraulic lifter. at 8000 RPM any lifter will pump up, especially if your bordering on valve float from pushing the limits of your valve springs or running too heavy of valves


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## bert0168 (Aug 8, 2013)

Looks awesome. Mine has gone from being able to move it by hand to just about blowin out a nut truing to move it even a little.


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## vtkerr (Aug 8, 2013)

*Bending pushrods*

I have a kohler 23hp on my wood splitter, I worked on the motor numerous times, if you pull the pushrods or valvetrain, before you re-assemble you must pull the hydraulic lifters out and bleed them down.. if you don't, you will likely bend a pushrod every time! I have turned a couple brand new pushrods into boomerangs directly out of the package, I don't use "kohler" brand oil, nor do I use the specified weight... I use Mobil Delvac 15w-40, the same oil that I use in my diesel trucks. 

Vtkerr


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm not surprised it could be operator error! I will do some more looking into the valve lash and bleeding down the lifters. 
Thanks for the help! I figured I was mostly alone in this small engine endeavor.


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 9, 2013)

vtkerr said:


> I have a kohler 23hp on my wood splitter, I worked on the motor numerous times, if you pull the pushrods or valvetrain, before you re-assemble you must pull the hydraulic lifters out and bleed them down.. if you don't, you will likely bend a pushrod every time! I have turned a couple brand new pushrods into boomerangs directly out of the package, I don't use "kohler" brand oil, nor do I use the specified weight... I use Mobil Delvac 15w-40, the same oil that I use in my diesel trucks.
> 
> Vtkerr



How do I bleed them down? Do I have to disassemble them or is it just pressure or time? I've watched a couple videos of setting valve lash but I don't think this is adjustable. It's just a bolt that you tighten through the rocker. 
Sorry if I'm still lost! ??


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## vtkerr (Aug 9, 2013)

*How to bleed lifters*

To properly bleed the lifters down, they need to be removed from the engine... if I remember right you need to pull the heads to be able to pull the lifters out of their bores, do not mix them up, put everything back in its original location

Once you have the lifters out and on the bench you need to use a bench vise or arbor press, to compress the lifter. How? Find a 1/4" drive socket that will fit in the dished end of the lifter without pinching the little wire clip that holds it all together, put the two in the vise or press and slowly start to tighten, using the socket to push the "guts" of the lifter inwards and you should start to see oil weep out of the hole on the side of the lifter. Go slowly and release pressure from time to time and let the lifter expand and start over, once you stop getting oil out, stop and do not over tighten.

This may sound a little intimidating, but its no big task compared to what you have already accomplished building that splitter! There should be some youtube videos out there showing what I have just explained. Any more questions, ask!

good luck!

vtkerr :msp_thumbup:


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## Rattler05.5 (Aug 9, 2013)

Thank you for that! The lifters slide right out through the valve cover/push rod area. I pulled one out and I saw the little wire circlip in the lifter that you mentioned. I am throwing some parts at it but I'm tired of this problem and don't want to fight it all the time. The engine sat for so long it may need some TLC. I had changed the oil but noticed some condensation on the dipstick and I read one account that that was an issue also with the lifters. 
I am going to start fresh; new oil, filter, lifters, and push rods. 
Again, Thank You for the guidance!


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## vtkerr (Aug 9, 2013)

*Lifters*

Your welcome! I am glad I was able to help you and guide you in the right direction.... I didn't remember if you could pull the lifters with the heads on or if they had to be removed. Either way, good stuff! good luck and we all look forward to seeing and hearing about your success!



vtkerr:msp_thumbup:


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## Rattler05.5 (Sep 24, 2013)

*Happy Fall!!!!*

Its alive again and running great. I put 4 new lifters and pushrods in, new oil, and a new oil filter. Not sure exactly which one fixed it, but I'm glad it did!
I've been splitting and it's working great. I adjusted the pump so that it kicks into high pressure sooner. It's somewhere around 1200psi now and the engine is happier. I'm growing tired of the 4-way wedge pretty quickly and am contemplating a six way now. Most of my logs are ones that wouldn't typically make a firewood splitter very happy. They are large and somewhat knotty and I am needing to split pieces twice and making lots of waste. 

Now I need to stack some so that I can try to earn back some of the ridiculous money I've spent on this thing!

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/Splitter%20build/IMG_2273.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2273.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/papagrande2001/IMG_2270.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2270.jpg"/></a>


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## kubotakid (Aug 26, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> not saying mines flexing or bending, i work pretty closely with a structural engineer where i work, i had him work out the stresses on the beam i was looking at, with the other support i added, and from the cylinder mount to the top of my wedge (14" high) over a 7ft span, @ 200% of rated output of my cylinder, the largest deflection (ends deflecting downward) was only .016", nowhere near enough to concern me.
> 
> there was also another reason why i decided against the mount, if your cylinder end mount, and the mount on the sled itsnt exactly the same height, then when the cylinder extends and contracts the height of the cylinder tube will move up and down...



Personaly, I would not use a cylinder brace unless it was a rubber bumper type. I have found all kinds of textures when using rubber bumpers. the right one is out there. As far as using charts and grafs to determine beam deflection specific to a rated hyd cylinder force,.. I don't belive that any engineer or a chart can predict/calculate the twisting force on a beam when you throw a notty piece of $hit in your splitter. Especially if you are using a 4way wedge. all you have to do to completely throw the deflection charts off is put the log in crooked. and most logs aren't cut perfectly square anyways. I know people who can screw up an anvil,..So good judgment running any kind of a/splitter,.especially a 4way is the main reason I don't loan out my splitter. jmho Eric


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## nathon918 (Aug 27, 2014)

kubotakid said:


> Personaly, I would not use a cylinder brace unless it was a rubber bumper type. I have found all kinds of textures when using rubber bumpers. the right one is out there. As far as using charts and grafs to determine beam deflection specific to a rated hyd cylinder force,.. I don't belive that any engineer or a chart can predict/calculate the twisting force on a beam when you throw a notty piece of $hit in your splitter. Especially if you are using a 4way wedge. all you have to do to completely throw the deflection charts off is put the log in crooked. and most logs aren't cut perfectly square anyways. I know people who can screw up an anvil,..So good judgment running any kind of a/splitter,.especially a 4way is the main reason I don't loan out my splitter. jmho Eric


 you would be suprised with the things you can do with a simulator, you can apply loads any way you can think of. i know its not 100% accurate but it give a rough idea of what can happen,
when i did it we used 200% of the rated available force for the simulator, in real life it only puts out about 90% because of where my relief valve is set...


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