# Alaskan mill



## nighthunter (Oct 9, 2018)

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/392134595614 does anyone have experience of this mill and the pros and cons of this setup


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## Brian72 (Oct 9, 2018)

I have a 48" Granberg and I'm very happy with it. Mine is different. I have one round tube that runs the entire length. Not sure why this one has two. Here's a pic for comparison. Not saying it's a bad thing. I just don't know the reason. They're a good quality mill.






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## SeMoTony (Oct 9, 2018)

I have had a mk3 alaskan for a number of years now. The ms-460 with a 60" bar on the stump is what my 30" start-up grew into. See avatar. I have a 72" bar now & a 661 with the cylinder ported and muff-mod. Advancing timing is not recomended, improving the air flow is. with a sharp chain progress is greatly improved. by keeping a steady angle, in relation to length of log, the best surface will be left. It has served me well. A crafty person can make up their own as is shown in" Milling 101" top of this subject. Swaying the cut leaves a poor surface and is actually slower progress.
there are chinese clones which are very similar and a thread or two is in this forum of people trying them.
The Alaskan function in ways and areas a bandsaw mill wood not. Once again my avatar, also easier to bring the mill to some logs than getting the log from where it lies in one piece. Alaskan allows for piecing the log out a slab at a time.
The ms-460 was faster in slicing with square chisel skip chain than with ripping chain. I now have a grinder for square chisel that makes for easier uniformity of cutters and bringing the angle between 5-10 degrees which smooths the cut. (less side push IMHO) 
May have a bit of milling at end of week, if so I may get some pics to post here for a better look. It is not a fast process, but I started small (inexpensive) and grew the length of the mill in increments, adding longer rails to match longer bars. Unlike a band mill where it's all in up front.
Luck to you, play safe


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## nighthunter (Oct 9, 2018)

Thanks for all the reply's. I've a 880 with 48" that needs some work and was looking at the kit in the eBay link, Would I need anything else bar a ripping chain


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## Brian72 (Oct 9, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Thanks for all the reply's. I've a 880 with 48" that needs some work and was looking at the kit in the eBay link, Would I need anything else bar a ripping chain


An auxiliary oiler is definitely a plus and you'll get it with that kit. You'll need some type of rail or a wide, flat plank to make your first cut. An old ladder will work too.

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## Henry3120xp (Oct 9, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/392134595614 does anyone have experience of this mill and the pros and cons of this setup



I have the 48 inch model and I’m very happy with it, it’s easy to adjust depth of cut and it’s very accurate. I got the double ended milling bar with it but sometimes use a shorter standard bar to cut weight. The milling bar will consistently produce a smother finish than a standard bar with the same milling chain will. It’s not a huge diffference but it is a smoother cut. The Granberg ez rails make the first cut a lot simpler but are not a must. I’ve used a ladder but I tried one of my walk boards on this log I milled last week. I like the wallboard better because it’s very rigid and doesn’t flex and need shims in the center like a ladder sometimes does. There are lots of good ideas in the milling forum. It is hard work but the end result is worth the effort.


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## Husky Man (Oct 9, 2018)

Brian72, the additional round handle appears to be, because the mill kit the OP asked about is evidently a size adjustable set up, with 4 each 36" square tubes and 2 each 36" round handles, so the mill can be configured from 36"-72", and I imagine to also reduce shipping costs by reducing the pieces to 36" in stead of 72".

That's my take on the ebay listing posted any way, I COULD be wrong, but it doesn't happen often


Doug


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## nighthunter (Oct 10, 2018)

Is it better to mill dry logs or green logs, and also what do you think of putting a maxi flow air filter on the 880 or just keep it standard


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## Husky Man (Oct 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Is it better to mill dry logs or green logs, and also what do you think of putting a maxi flow air filter on the 880 or just keep it standard



I'm stihl new to milling myself, but my understanding is that milling green is better because he moisture in green wood helps keep the chain cooler, and heat is your chains enemy. 
Also, the moisture in green wood acts as a lubricant, compared to dry wood, which reduces friction, which reduces heat.

Helping the saw "Breathe" should be a Good thing, so a Maxi Flow air filter should help.


Doug


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## Brian72 (Oct 10, 2018)

Henry3120xp said:


> I have the 48 inch model and I’m very happy with it, it’s easy to adjust depth of cut and it’s very accurate. I got the double ended milling bar with it but sometimes use a shorter standard bar to cut weight. The milling bar will consistently produce a smother finish than a standard bar with the same milling chain will. It’s not a huge diffference but it is a smoother cut. The Granberg ez rails make the first cut a lot simpler but are not a must. I’ve used a ladder but I tried one of my walk boards on this log I milled last week. I like the wallboard better because it’s very rigid and doesn’t flex and need shims in the center like a ladder sometimes does. There are lots of good ideas in the milling forum. It is hard work but the end result is worth the effort.
> 
> View attachment 679031


Nice idea on the walk board Henry. Thanks for sharing!

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## Brian72 (Oct 10, 2018)

Husky Man said:


> Brian72, the additional round handle appears to be, because the mill kit the OP asked about is evidently a size adjustable set up, with 4 each 36" square tubes and 2 each 36" round handles, so the mill can be configured from 36"-72", and I imagine to also reduce shipping costs by reducing the pieces to 36" in stead of 72".
> 
> That's my take on the ebay listing posted any way, I COULD be wrong, but it doesn't happen often
> 
> ...


You're right Doug. I didn't realize they made an expandable mill. I don't see it listed on their website but found some YouTube videos explaining it.

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## Husky Man (Oct 10, 2018)

I wasn't aware of Granberg offering an expandable mill either, but looking at that UK ebay listing it seems that's what it is. 

I haven't seen the youtube videos yet, is it a Granberg factory set up? Or I suspected something that someone figured out/put together.

Maybe it is something that Granberg doesn't offer here in the States, but does over seas? Heaven knows that there are plenty of Saws that we can't get here, but are sold elsewhere, and the chainsaw market has nothing on the automotive world in that regard.


Doug


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## Brian72 (Oct 10, 2018)

Husky Man said:


> I wasn't aware of Granberg offering an expandable mill either, but looking at that UK ebay listing it seems that's what it is.
> 
> I haven't seen the youtube videos yet, is it a Granberg factory set up? Or I suspected something that someone figured out/put together.
> 
> ...


From what I've seen, it looks like a factory product. Certainly not half-assed engineering. I'm curious to learn more myself if I ever decide to go bigger with my mill.

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## nighthunter (Oct 10, 2018)

Brian72 said:


> From what I've seen, it looks like a factory product. Certainly not half-assed engineering. I'm curious to learn more myself if I ever decide to go bigger with my mill.
> 
> Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


 could that mill be on the weak side if it's made to expand up to 72", I'll never need that length but it could have the tendency to flex and bow in the middle but maybe I'm wrong


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## Brian72 (Oct 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> could that mill be on the weak side if it's made to expand up to 72", I'll never need that length but it could have the tendency to flex and bow in the middle but maybe I'm wrong


Not sure. It seems to be pretty sturdy and well thought out. It has connectors that slide into the rails at the joints to stiffen them. Granberg makes quality stuff so I doubt they'd release anything that wasn't up to par. It also has a cross brace that bolts to the connector which will strengthen the joint. Search the YouTube videos and it explains the assembly. It's just a different setup than I'm used to seeing. It may just be a new design that wasn't available before.

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## Henry3120xp (Oct 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Is it better to mill dry logs or green logs, and also what do you think of putting a maxi flow air filter on the 880 or just keep it standard



If you only consider the actual milling it is definitely easier with green logs. However there are advantages to letting them dry some first in certain situations. Especially with any burl, crotch, or any highly figured wood. It is harder to mill but I get a much higher yield if I let them dry out first, less checking and warping. Also where I live the humidity is very high much of the year and I have problems with mold staining with green wood, except during the winter when humidity is low. This problem is eliminated when milling logs that have dried some. I let some maple logs sit for up to two years to allow good spalting to develope before milling.


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## Henry3120xp (Oct 10, 2018)

Brian72 said:


> Nice idea on the walk board Henry. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


You’re welcome. I bought a new powerhead when I bought the mill and didn’t have enough funds left to buy the big ez rails so I had to make use with what I already had. I used a ladder first but found it flexed a little from the weight of the saw. I tried the wallboard and like it better.


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## Brian72 (Oct 11, 2018)

Henry3120xp said:


> You’re welcome. I bought a new powerhead when I bought the mill and didn’t have enough funds left to buy the big ez rails so I had to make use with what I already had. I used a ladder first but found it flexed a little from the weight of the saw. I tried the wallboard and like it better.


No doubt this can get quite expensive. I want to build a set of rails but never seem to have enough time. I've even used a study wide board to make my first cut. Seems I learn something new every time I mill.

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## Diy mechanic mike (Oct 26, 2018)

So I've gathered a decent amount of info from this thread, I'm actually looking into getting an Alaskan mill myself but having trouble deciding the best width option for starting out. I do see myself getting into this craft as I'm an outdoorsy person and have 27 acres of some big wood to mill and also have been doing woodworking stuff since I was 12. But just recently started gather equiptment for a side tree business, bucket truck, chipper, and a ms661 for the big trees which I'll also be using for milling. So with that said what size would you guys recommend for a young entrepreneur like my self? I dont have a problem buying larger bar for my 661 if getting a bigger then 36in would be a better option cuz that's what size I was looking at but seeing this thread about an adjustable one seemed interesting but like others have said most things with that much adjustment usually have more week spots..... thanks mike


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## Brian72 (Oct 26, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> So I've gathered a decent amount of info from this thread, I'm actually looking into getting an Alaskan mill myself but having trouble deciding the best width option for starting out. I do see myself getting into this craft as I'm an outdoorsy person and have 27 acres of some big wood to mill and also have been doing woodworking stuff since I was 12. But just recently started gather equiptment for a side tree business, bucket truck, chipper, and a ms661 for the big trees which I'll also be using for milling. So with that said what size would you guys recommend for a young entrepreneur like my self? I dont have a problem buying larger bar for my 661 if getting a bigger then 36in would be a better option cuz that's what size I was looking at but seeing this thread about an adjustable one seemed interesting but like others have said most things with that much adjustment usually have more week spots..... thanks mike


I have a 48" Granberg and I'm running 28", 36" and 50" bars on my 661. I run my auxiliary oiler on 36 and up bars. For long bars, I highly recommend Cannon. They're pricey but very sturdy. No problems with any flexing.

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## Brian72 (Oct 26, 2018)

Brian72 said:


> I have a 48" Granberg and I'm running 28", 36" and 50" bars on my 661. I run my auxiliary oiler on 36 and up bars. For long bars, I highly recommend Cannon. They're pricey but very sturdy. No problems with any flexing.
> 
> Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


Another thing Mike, go with .063 gauge bar and chain. It oils better.

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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 9, 2018)

Gotchya so I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the granberg 48" mill. I have done a bit of research and from my info it seems that the 661 shouldn't be used with anything bigger then 48" and that's already pushing the limits. I want this saw to last me a while for the tree business as well as free-time milling, so anything bigger then 48" for chainsaw milling should be double power head milled which I dont see myself milling anything bigger then 48". Hell that's a sheet of plywood Haha. But since I'm getting into the tree business how big of a bar could I put on the 661 for just falling a tree cuz that's way less torque needy


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## Husky Man (Nov 9, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> Gotchya so I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the granberg 48" mill. I have done a bit of research and from my info it seems that the 661 shouldn't be used with anything bigger then 48" and that's already pushing the limits. I want this saw to last me a while for the tree business as well as free-time milling, so anything bigger then 48" for chainsaw milling should be double power head milled which I dont see myself milling anything bigger then 48". Hell that's a sheet of plywood Haha. But since I'm getting into the tree business how big of a bar could I put on the 661 for just falling a tree cuz that's way less torque needy




You aren't going to be able to mill a 48" wide piece with a 48" mill and bar. Probably figure in the neighborhood of 42" with a 48" mill.

There are a couple things you can do to get a little more width of cut from your mill, such as drilling through the center of the nose sprocket and bolting rather than clamping the nose end of the mill, you can also remove the Bucking Dawgs.

If you just want to use the saw as normally configured, and the mill as it came stock, you can usually figure your max milling width about 6-8" less than the mills "Stated" Size, the mills advertised "Size" is it's overall length assembled, not it's milling Capacity.


Doug


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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 9, 2018)

Ah icic, so if I went with the 56" mill, I could get a 48" wide slab, but I'd have to get a 56" bar to get it.?.?. Would my 661 be able to handle this size of bar and chain cutting a slab a decent length?


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## Brian72 (Nov 9, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> Ah icic, so if I went with the 56" mill, I could get a 48" wide slab, but I'd have to get a 56" bar to get it.?.?. Would my 661 be able to handle this size of bar and chain cutting a slab a decent length?


I run my 50" running skip chain without any problems. I haven't run anything bigger than 36" for regular cutting. I think the limiting factor would be getting enough oil on long bars. The saw is plenty powerful. 

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## George Hurchalla (Nov 9, 2018)

Depends on a few things to actual slabbing width - I've found that my Stihl Duromatic 36" and my GB 72" bar are that length from tip to halfway between the mounting studs, not actually that cutting length from tip of powerhead to tip of bar. Then of course you have to take the spikes off if you want max width, which is a slight bother if you plan on switching it back and forth between use as a felling saw and milling saw. But yeah, give yourself about 5 to 8" more bar width than width of slab you expect to get most of the time, depending on the setup. I swapped a 42" steel Alaskan mill for a 36" Granberg Alaskan mill to give myself flexibility of extending the rails on it and went ahead and bought a 60" set of rails from Granberg for my 72" GB bar. Haven't had cause to use the setup as I'm mostly milling mesquite that has run 28" at max so far so my 36" bar/mill does fine for most of my work and isn't too cumbersome. Running an 880 head so I have no worries on power on any bar. Just rigged up my old 045 Super (87cc) on a 32" bar and really liked the smoothness of it on 15" red oak. Will be using that setup and 3/8 chain for most of my smaller (sub-25") diameter hardwood now. Used it for awhile and then a 660 running a 42" bar with 3/8 chain in Mexico on 28-36" diameter guanacastle trees (kinda like monkeypod). It worked okay but it was my first days of milling and could have done a lot of things better, like kept after the sharpening way more. I have belatedly learned that I'm running my milling chains way too dull most of the time and constant sharpening makes all the difference in the world to what a saw can handle. I worked with a local in Mexico who did freehand milling with a 72 cc saw and he sharpened his chain so regularly that I was amazed how well it cut compared to our much bigger saws that I rarely sharpened while out in the field. I kept trying to figure out how we could get a setup when I was in Mexico to mill guanacastle up to 48" running the 660, and the most I ever thought was reasonable for it was a 50" Cannon and even had my doubts about that and never pulled the trigger. I bought the 880 once I moved to Texas and it was actually the saw I needed down in Mexico and the 660 is more what I need up here. Of course a huge part of it too is how hard the wood you're cutting is. Mesquite is insanely hard for a North American wood. I like the 880 for it but am happy with a lesser saw for red oak, rock elm, and ash. Safety is a consideration to at the long bar end of the range, most people don't want to take too much chance with 3/8 chain moving past 50", a number of people not comfortable with it much past 42". The big .404 .063 chain on the 880 gives you pretty good peace of mind. If you're mostly milling BIG trees, I feel like the 880 or 3120 is the way to go. My issue with getting a really wide mill and expensive bar and chain for a 660 was it never quite seemed worth investing in for only the occasional big tree if I wasn't going to custom mod the saw for max power (or know what I know now about sharpening). The 880 allowed me to skip everything in between and just buy a massive 72" bar to handle anything in the 36 to 60" range. The new hyperskip Oregon chain with a pair of cutters every 9" seemed like it would be great for reducing power needs for big bars and let you stretch the capabilities of a 660/661, but as it was designed for big Lucas Mills with giant .404 bars they only make it in .404 and so it's no use for the 661's. I bought it for both my 36" and 72" bars for the 880, but decided ultimately it makes little sense in as small a bar as 36" and normal skip would be better.


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## nighthunter (Nov 10, 2018)

So would a long bar like for instance a 72" bar when mounted in the mill have the tendency to bow into the middle


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## Brian72 (Nov 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> So would a long bar like for instance a 72" bar when mounted in the mill have the tendency to bow into the middle


When I was looking at longer bars, I took a lot of advice from the West coast fallers. I can certainly see why Cannon bars are highly recommended by them. They are very solid with no flexing problems. I would think any of the reputable manufacturers would be fine. 

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## George Hurchalla (Nov 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> So would a long bar like for instance a 72" bar when mounted in the mill have the tendency to bow into the middle


Not a Cannon or a GB Titanium bar, they're both beasts. Plus it's exceedingly rare you're ever running the spacing between clamps more than 48-54" wide unless you're milling redwoods.


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## nighthunter (Nov 10, 2018)

Ok so my 48" stihl duromatic bar was the tendency to flex at the tip when on its side a sand throw a chain ,Would I have to get another bar for my 880


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## Husky Man (Nov 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Ok so my 48" stihl duromatic bar was the tendency to flex at the tip when on its side a sand throw a chain ,Would I have to get another bar for my 880




I'm not familiar with that particular bar, but I would give it a try before buying another bar.

The mill itself should help support the bar, and could very well prevent much of your flexing, Try before you buy a replacement 

Bar flex would still be an issue in a smaller mill like the Granberg Small log mill, which only clamps the bar at the Thrust end, and not the nose, but only being advised for bars up to 24", bar flex SHOULDN'T be a Problem.


Doug


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 10, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Ok so my 48" stihl duromatic bar was the tendency to flex at the tip when on its side a sand throw a chain ,Would I have to get another bar for my 880



Expanding on all the good advice Husky Man gave, all the bars have some flex. You can't make steel completely rigid at that thickness over that length no matter how hardened it is. The Duromatic 48 should be plenty rigid enough bar in a milling setup, that's also a super heavy duty bar. There's a difference in flex dynamics - sorry, the engineer in me is coming out - of an unsupported bar (or only clamped at one end like in the powerhead) vs a mill clamped bar. My Dad pointed this out to be when I was building some shelving for my family and it was a long piece of wood that was going to bow with a lot of books on it and like a chainsaw mill there was no possibility of a middle support. He explained that if you have something just supported from the bottom at both ends like normal shelf brackets, the ends will flex up and the middle bow down. If you attach the shelf brackets from above, it limits how much the ends can flex up, thus reducing how much the middle can flex down. So when you have the bar clamped with pressure from the top side and bottom side in a rigid frame, it will limit the flex to fairly meaningless amounts.


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## Husky Man (Nov 10, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> Ah icic, so if I went with the 56" mill, I could get a 48" wide slab, but I'd have to get a 56" bar to get it.?.?. Would my 661 be able to handle this size of bar and chain cutting a slab a decent length?




Mike, are you using the Granberg EZ Rails for at least your first cut?, if you have the 5' EZ Rail set as well as the 9', I would suggest buying a 36" mill, AND just a 60" round handle and an extra end bracket.

A 36" mill sounds like it would be adequate for a lot, or even most of what you want to mill, it would be much more manageable, plus when you NEEDED a larger mill, you can use the 5' EZ Rails for the depth rails, and the 60" round handle and extra end bracket to convert your mill up to 60" when you need that much mill, you essentially get two mills for a little more cost than the smaller mill.

Grandberg has these parts readily available, I have ordered the parts myself, I just haven't needed to mill anything that large yet.

FWIW, you can thank SeMoTony for the tip on the 5' EZ Rails, he tipped me off to that trick.


Doug


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## Husky Man (Nov 10, 2018)

George, I hadn't even considered the top clamping effect, makes sense, once it is mentioned, I was just thinking of the support of the nose end, without even thinking of the additional effect of the clamping, 

Thank You, again I learned something New Today

This is why I Enjoy AS so much, Now if I could just stay out of the Pol/Rel section


Doug


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 10, 2018)

Thanks Doug. I like the SeMoTony trick with the EZ rails, hadn't thought of that. I already have a ladder I'm happy with and already bought the 60" rails and round bar for my mill (which are still sitting in the box) so too late to do that but good to know. I can easily do things in reverse, build a short guide for stubby logs with those rails to make them dual purpose by just adding some cross bars to the rails, I bought the extra cross bar kit too so have all the cross pieces I need. Yeah, for awhile my Dad who is an engineer I think kinda despaired I never did anything professional with my engineering degree, but it's actually come in real handy as an outdoorsman in understanding how to build a better widget sometimes. Often can get there by trial and error and sheer inventiveness too, but I love understanding how things work. Have had to study up a bunch on how to estimate flex of different shapes and types of metal (angle, square tubing, etc) in building some sliding X-Y frames for my router in my shop so I can overhead router plane large slabs to level them. Obviously if the frame flexes at all, the router won't stay level. Picked up the overhead router planing from an Aussie big wave surfer and woodworker working koa and monkeypod slabs in Hawaii, interviewed in a surfing magazine, so ideas come from the most unexpected places. Ah, just saw you're in Mt Hood, never actually been to it yet, but all over Oregon otherwise. Love that state. Lived in Tahoe on and off for many years, which is mostly Douglas fir around the lake since they clearcut the pine back in the 1920's, and I remember going up to Oregon and hiking the forests there and thinking, holy crap, THESE are Douglas firs. Like two to three times the size.


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## Husky Man (Nov 10, 2018)

Hi George, Mt Hood is Beautiful, We Love living here, well worth the 45 minute commute to work.

We do get some Big D Firs around here, I bought the 60" Bar, because I eventually want to build a new dining room table. Our current table is a 38"x 56" D Fir slab that is 4" thick, with the bark still on both edges, Really pretty table just not big enough. Getting into milling was kind of a Perfect Storm coming together, the Wife wants a Bigger table, we have been cutting bigger wood for firewood, and I was looking at getting a 395XP, then I saw Dave the "Chainsaw Guy" on ebay had the 3120XP PHO for $1399 + $89 shipping. I looked at our current table, and thought, "I think that I could do that", and the 3120XP at that price was too Good, so I got the 3120XP and a bunch of Granberg gear. When I decided to try milling, I figured no sticking my toe in the water, I did a Swan Dive off the High Board, ad got pretty much everything I thought that I might need, or even use36" and 48" mills, the and 2, 5',and 1, 9' EZ Rail sets plus the handle and bracket to use one of the EZ Rails as a 60" mill, the small log mill and the Mini Mill/edger, committed myself to doing it right, that really is the ONLY way to do some things isn't it?

I have 36", 44" and 60" bars for the 3120XP, really need a 50" to get the best utilization out of the 48" mill. I used the 48" mill with the 44" bar today without taking the Dawgs off the saw, and clamping the nose a conservative distance from the sprocket, I end up with a 35" max width, I COULD get about another 3" by taking the dawgs off, and I could move the clamp an inch closer to the sprocket, but I will just try the 44" B&C on the 36" mill, should be a pretty good fit. I made the same mistake as Mike, and Many others, figured a 36" mill, a 36" bar, right?

I'm still learning myself, but having Fun doing it, and trying to help others avoid my mistakes when I can


Doug


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 11, 2018)

Husky Man said:


> I'm still learning myself, but having Fun doing it, and trying to help others avoid my mistakes when I can


Yeah, I've got lots to learn yet but having fun myself as I go. Just finished milling and planing the red oak today I got from a tree service guy I made an arrangement with to call me when he downs any hardwoods around town. He cut it up too small to do too much in the way of tables with it, but plenty of good shelving, cutting board, etc, project pieces. He'll leave the logs longer in the future. Had to buy a metal detector wand to check the wood though after pulling some exterior nails from it and not knowing what might be hidden inside the wood. Hazards of urban "treecycling", is that trees from people's yards have had all kinds of nails and such stuck in them over time, you have to be careful. Really enjoying how much lighter my old 045 Super is to mill with for smaller logs, particularly when doing a lot of boards on short logs where I'm lifting it on and off the log repeatedly. It never worked well enough when I first milled with it to enjoy it much. Plus I was running a 42" bar on it. With the 32" bar and running good it's very similar to a 660. I'd really like to get a chance to try out the 72" bar one of these days though with the 880 on something substantial. Actually ordered the 880 new from a Stihl dealer in Mexico online last year (they call the model a 780 in Latin America though exact same saw), shipped it to a buddy down there who was driving up to Texas, and he brought it up. Between finding the cheapest price in Mexico on it, and the peso being at rock bottom, I think it cost me little more than $1000 brand new with a 36" Duromatic bar and chain. Had to have it at that price, couldn't believe it. Going to likely buy another small Granberg mill, second hand if I can, just so I can set up the 60" rails on it as its own mill and not have to switch everything out when I want to mill larger things. I should have just bought the complete 60" mill to start with, in hindsight. If you have the money at the time to invest in it, going all in like you did is the way to go. Saves you a lot of headache not having quite what you need half the time, which is how I started. The nice thing about having a 60-72" bar is while you tend to use it rarely, it lets you mill those trees that few others can, that one slab from them pays for your 3120 or 880 and then some.


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 16, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Ok so my 48" stihl duromatic bar was the tendency to flex at the tip when on its side a sand throw a chain ,Would I have to get another bar for my 880



Just figured out something pretty basic which might make you want to look for another bar. A roller tip is going to be a lot smoother for milling. I thought the smoothness and high revs milling with my 045 were the 3/8 chain having less resistance but it was more about having a roller tip on the 32" bar vs my hardnose Duromatic 36" I've been using on the 880. I'd been having all kinds of chain stretch issues on the Duromatic bar even with .404 and had almost none with 3/8 on the roller tip bar. Plus I was running the chains too tight for a hardnose and working the saw way harder than I needed to. I was about to pull the trigger on a 47" Duromatic until I read a thread on hardnose vs roller tip, and thankfully didn't get it. Best I can tell, the only call for hardnose is for short bars for brush cutting and dirty work. Hardnose in a really big bar makes almost no sense.


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## nighthunter (Nov 17, 2018)

George Hurchalla said:


> Just figured out something pretty basic which might make you want to look for another bar. A roller tip is going to be a lot smoother for milling. I thought the smoothness and high revs milling with my 045 were the 3/8 chain having less resistance but it was more about having a roller tip on the 32" bar vs my hardnose Duromatic 36" I've been using on the 880. I'd been having all kinds of chain stretch issues on the Duromatic bar even with .404 and had almost none with 3/8 on the roller tip bar. Plus I was running the chains too tight for a hardnose and working the saw way harder than I needed to. I was about to pull the trigger on a 47" Duromatic until I read a thread on hardnose vs roller tip, and thankfully didn't get it. Best I can tell, the only call for hardnose is for short bars for brush cutting and dirty work. Hardnose in a really big bar makes almost no sense.


I've never actually thought about it not having a roller tip would affect the smoothness of the cut,makes sense I suppose but when I do eventually get to mill, I'll be cleaning up the slabs on a router table before sanding so it might not be any more work to finish the slabs to a useable quality


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## BobL (Nov 17, 2018)

I've milled about 40 logs with a 42" hardnose bar and didn't really notice any difference in finish when I started using a roller nose. I agree that chain tension adjusting is bit tricker but after a bit of practice its not that difficult to maintain a half decent tension. Apart from synchronisation between cutting and chain speed that leads to washboard effects, my experience is the primary factor that effects finish is the operator. The smoother and gentler the operator handles the mill the better the finish.


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 17, 2018)

Sorry, my bad in description, didn't mean smoothness of cut, no problems with that. Just meant smoothness/easiness of overall milling process, whether you need to keep stopping to re-tension, etc. I've been quite satisfied with my results with the hardnose and 880, just like Bob says, you have to learn just the right amount of tensioning for a hardnose. You can get away with a hardnose more easily on an 880, as it has all the power in the world, as long as you tension correctly which I hadn't learned. But I'd still keep an eye out for a roller tip bar.


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## SeMoTony (Nov 21, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> Gotchya so I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the granberg 48" mill. I have done a bit of research and from my info it seems that the 661 shouldn't be used with anything bigger then 48" and that's already pushing the limits. I want this saw to last me a while for the tree business as well as free-time milling, so anything bigger then 48" for chainsaw milling should be double power head milled which I dont see myself milling anything bigger then 48". Hell that's a sheet of plywood Haha. But since I'm getting into the tree business how big of a bar could I put on the 661 for just falling a tree cuz that's way less torque needy




For perspective on "recommended" and do-able. That is ms-460 mufmodded and max-flo filter, with a 42" bar slabbing 37" wide Ash. Skip square chisel chain has better cut & chip clearance IMHO. Beyond the size listed but worked well for those thirteen slices after five slices thru 39" día white oak. I got into habit of using the bar side that is oiled by the powerhead inside the groove.
Avatar shows same PH with 60" cannon bar same type chain.
My 046 runs a loop on an 18" bar faster thru logs than the 661 runs a loop on a 50" bar thru a 42"+ log. The 661 will last because I listen to the tune the saw is singing while we are cutting together. If she grumps, I slow down till she's singing Happy tunes again. It's a balancing act between the load and power available in my experience.
I've got up to 72" bars. The longer end of the spectrum are " just in case" like the five footer used on the stump. Underneath the Alaskan in the avatar a 72" bar wood have gotten a remarkable slice from the remaining stump. Regretted not having one enough to get one even though that stump was grinder chips when I found it.
Enjoy milling safely Folks


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## BobL (Nov 21, 2018)

SeMoTony said:


> My 046 runs a loop on an 18" bar faster thru logs than the 661 runs a loop on a 50" bar thru a 42"+ log.


This is to be expected - the 046 has 1/3rd HP per inch available to is whereas the 661 has less than a 1/5HP per inch.
Even my 441 in a 21" cut has more HP/in than my 880 in a 42" cut.


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## SeMoTony (Nov 21, 2018)

BobL said:


> This is to be expected - the 046 has 1/3rd HP per inch available to is whereas the 661 has less than a 1/5HP per inch.
> Even my 441 in a 21" cut has more HP/in than my 880 in a 42" cut.


Hi BobL! The point I tried to make is the proper feed for the combination of powerhead and chain. The 661 is much better cutter with the same bar & chain that I was using in the Ash with the 460.
The only change was the hole drilled in the sprocket center to gain 2" more reach. Around the corner (@3 miles) a red oak blowdown has my interest because of the roots are vertical while the trunk is over a fence that lessens my interest. Friday will be a day to stop and ask.
Mill safely Folks


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## BobL (Nov 22, 2018)

Tony - I'd like to like your above post but your photo is hiding the like button ?


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## Husky Man (Nov 22, 2018)

BobL said:


> Tony - I'd like to like your above post but your photo is hiding the like button ?



That's interesting Bob, I have never seen that before, it worked for me


Doug


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## BobL (Nov 22, 2018)

Husky Man said:


> That's interesting Bob, I have never seen that before, it worked for me


I restarted the browser and that fixed it.


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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 23, 2018)

So the company was out of the 56" mills but had the 60". so i figured 25 bucks more for the 60", why not probably wont get into anything that size for quite some time but hey why not have the option for the future. So I had a question about the muffler mod, How is this done and what bonuses does this have? And any negative effect on saw in any way?
Thanks mike


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## BobL (Nov 23, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> So the company was out of the 56" mills but had the 60". so i figured 25 bucks more for the 60", why not probably wont get into anything that size for quite some time but hey why not have the option for the future. So I had a question about the muffler mod, How is this done and what bonuses does this have? And any negative effect on saw in any way?
> Thanks mike



A muffler mod can be as extensive as boring/porting out of the exhaust ports in the cylinder, or as minor as opening up the exhaust outlet. A full race port is not recommended for milling saws as they are only intended to be used is relatively short bursts. There is a mild or "woods" port that works really for milling probably best left to those that know what they are doing. Do a search for "woods port". A muffler replacement or a mod that opens up the muffler more than stock can also be beneficial. In either case a rejetting of the main jet may be required to obtain the correct tuning for milling may not be possible.

The benefits of a muffler mod is the saw runs cooler, a bit more power (don't hold your breath on the amount), and the negative is it uses more fuel.

On my 880 I just changed the size of the outlet on the outside of the muffler.
Full details here https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/880-muffler-mod-question.88748/#post-1467236


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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 25, 2018)

Gotchya yeah I'm not 100% on the mechanics of saws, as I havnt had to crack one open yet.... now for vehicle engines, unfortunately I have had to crack a few of those open and have learned alot since my first crack open and I have now moved from little 4cylinder engines to big v8 engines maintenance so I have learned alot and I'm still ready to learn more but my saw is brand new so not going threw it like that, maybe once I have made my money back with it a few times I'll think about tampering with mods but til then she's running stock while my warranty is still active...


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 25, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> Gotchya yeah I'm not 100% on the mechanics of saws, as I havnt had to crack one open yet....


I've gotten deeper into chainsaw engines as my collection has grown, but for a long time I never got deeper than replacing carbs. Similar to you, I've done a fair bit with car engines to the point of successfully second guessing what a number of mechanics have tried to tell me. (I broke a timing chain on a 454 once, had a mechanic put a new one 0n, it ran horrendous, and he tried to tell me it needed a full valve job. I limped it home, popped off the valve cover, and found it had bent and broken pushrods. Replaced them myself in about a half hour. When I went on a big block forum to try to get someone to explain how pushrods could get bent and broken by a timing chain break on a non-interference engine, I just irritated a bunch of pros who couldn't explain it and tried to explain to me the workings of interference engines even though mine wasn't one.) I've combed these threads a lot for info on maintenance, mods, and how to mill better, and BobL has had some of the most solid information I've seen. Particularly as I've been running an 880, I usually defer to his experience on that. I haven't seen any need for more power out of mine, though I've seen guys who swear you have to run an 8 tooth sprocket or do this or that mod to raise the revs on an 880 to make it more like a 661. I have the luxury of having gotten back a couple of old 045/056 Super 87cc Stihls to play with if I want to mod something (though they're also big torque low rev saws like the 880) but seems to me the 880's domain is BIG trees and I like its enormous torque and lower revs just fine for that, and the chip throwing of .404 chain. On smaller hardwoods I'm liking my 87cc and 3/8 chain a lot more now, which Bob suggested to me early on to me would likely be where the 661 outshined the 880. I guess I'm just running a lower powered version of the 880 torque and rev-wise with the Supers, not the performance of a 661, but lets me run 3/8" chain without switching anything out. I could get Logosol's lo pro spur to run lo pro chain on one of them which would be good to have as an option, which you might think about for your 661 for sub-30" logs. Less invasive than any engine mod and good performance returns in smaller hardwood. I like Bob's muffler mod a lot simply to get exhaust going away from you while milling, but I don't quite have the ambition to do it on mine at least not yet. My 880 is too new for me to want to mess with much like you say about your 661, and even if it runs conservative compared to what it maybe could, for the slow and steady endurance test of milling I think that suits me just fine.


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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 25, 2018)

Yeah I hear you on the mechanical issues they are never fun and even less fun taking them to someone else even tho it sounds great. Cuz you really never know what they are doing and the only way to get it done right is to do it your self and just make the best of it even tho it always sucks Haha. Best way to look at doing your own mechanic work is your tool set gets broader with every issue you fix so next time that issue happens your ready freddy to get it back on the road or w.e it does haha.

Now the sprocket sizes, pitch size, and different chains is all uncharted territory for me lol. I just dabbled into sharpening old chains to different angles and testing out but not noticing a huge differance haha. I just make sure it cuts in a timely manner. I got a timberline Sharpener that hooks onto the bar and you rotate chain threw it and sharpen each tooth with a carbine bit that turns like a pencil sharpener. It also has different angles to sharpen the teeth at; 25°,30°,and 35°. It works really great and fast but like all sharpeners it takes time to get the hang of it but I have to say this sharpener is my personal favorite for presicion and speed weather your sitting on a log, the ground, a table, or have saw in a vice it works great. But yeah I'm gonna have to look into the different chain stuff a little deeper to understand it all better. Btw what's the best place to purchase ripping chains for milling? Gonna need one soon once my mill comes in the mail.


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## Husky Man (Nov 25, 2018)

Hi Mike, you have come to a good site to learn more about saws, I had cut firewood for over 40 years and didn't know anything about pitch, gauge or different chain types, just always got whatever was stock for the saws whenever replacing chains or bars.

the tooth count on a sprocket is somewhat analogous to gear ratio in an automotive rear end, in that a Higher tooth count will give a faster chain speed, but with less torque similar to a Lower Ratio Gearing increases a cars speed, but lowers torque. the pitch relates to the length of the links, your sprockets and sprocket nose bars will be pitch sensitive, but most sprockets are not Gauge specific, but the bar itself will be. Gauge refers to the width of the guide groove on the bar, and the corresponding drive teeth on the chain links. A smaller gauge chain would fit into a larger gauge bar groove, but it would be sloppy side to side and would result in the saw not cutting plumb.

I'm glad to hear you like the Timberline Sharpener, I have two of them, but I haven't had the time to really get used to using them, but the chains that I have sharpened with them so far, have cut extremely well, I was very happy with the edge it gave.

You will find a lot of Friendly people here(Just stay away from the Pol/Rel forums ) who are Happy to help each other out with problems, and sharing knowledge


Doug


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 25, 2018)

Diy mechanic mike said:


> Btw what's the best place to purchase ripping chains for milling? Gonna need one soon once my mill comes in the mail.


Bailey's is always good but their Woodland Pro ripping chain doesn't come in skip tooth. I buy a lot from Frawley's Saw Shop online who have great prices (out of Iowa I think) but again the Oregon ripping chain all seems to be full comp not skip. I had wondered looking around a bit recently for 3/8 skip tooth ripping chain why I didn't see much and it seems like hardly anyone makes it, just a couple of people seem to make it in .404. Some folks just buy ordinary 30 degree skip tooth and regrind it to 10 degrees for ripping right out of the box. I'd want skip for your biggest bar cuts with a 661 but otherwise I think regular ripping chain would be fine. Fresh out of the box I'm not sure I saw much of a difference on my 880 between an Oregon hyper skip chain (only comes in .404) and a full complement chain on 15-28" wide hardwood slabs. I really like the look of that Timberline sharpener, but it can't do 10 degree ripping chain angles seems to be the only problem. I've been frustrated without a vise to hold the bar trying to get any good results out of my Granberg bar mounted sharpener. I have a vise now so hopefully it will get better. (I haven't been getting enough pressure against the underside of the tooth holding the file with one hand and the bar with the other, and have often been pushing downward more into the gullet, doing nothing to sharpen the tooth.) I took my ripping chain to a Stihl dealer to sharpen and he cut it at 30 degrees and I was furious, especially when his wife wasn't customer friendly about the mistake, but when I went back to pick it up the second time and he was there he was friendly and thanked me for schooling him on something he didn't know, because in 22 years of business or so he'd never had a ripping chain come through his shop. So the lack of choices in ripping chains compared to regular chains are mostly to do with them being such a small niche market.


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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 26, 2018)

Doug from your sprocket ratio explanation it seems the gearing is exactly like a dirt bike... I just got a 1 tooth smaller then stock for front and two teeth smaller in back for my crf250l. the most torque/high end speed gear ratio is what I went for so I got best of both worlds. So that being understood from that aspect "for me", is there a specific sweet spot on the gear ratio chart for each saw like this ratio was for my enduro?

And thanks for the pitch explanation, I pretty much do exactly what you said you did just get the stock recommended replacement. Lol. But I guess if I thought more about it like i am now i could get more cutting specific pitches. One thing I have noticed that i think is pitch related is the wood carving bars, I'm guessing those have a very small pitch since the bar tip is so pointed so the chain can flex easier around that edgie bar tip. 

And yeah the timberline sharpener is great I love it. It's basically like sharpening 100 pencils and your chain is factory sharp or sharper. You just have to make sure you dont get greedy with this sharpener and tighten it to tight and take too much metal off when sharpening or your losing chain resharpening life. trust me found this out the first few chains I used it on Haha, only got like 4 or 5 resharpens and my teeth were wore down from taking so much off each resharpen. 

And yeah this site has been extremely helpful, first found it when I was trying to find parts for my old asplundh whisper chipper and now I'm in milling forums and others as well. it's like "crack"!!!! But healthier.


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## Diy mechanic mike (Nov 26, 2018)

George, great info on the milling chains. So the skip chain and non slip chain, what's the pros and cons to each of those? I'm sure they both have their own advantage for something.

And see you cant ever get anything done the way you want it done taking it to somebody else Haha. But it's always a nice thought of not having to deal with it til you get it and it's not how you wanted it and then you got more time waiting... that is why I always try to do things my self no matter how spread thin I get... just have to prioritize which irons need took out of stove and which ones need put back in to keep everything afloat lol.

But yeah I wonder if timberline has thought to make a sharpener for ripping chains? Would be another money maker part for them..... and thanks for the info on where to order ripping chains.


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 26, 2018)

Smoother finish to the cut with full comp, more drag on the saw because more teeth engaged, worse chip ejection. Here's a good breakdown from Madsen's for conventional cross cutting. http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_sequence.htm When milling, chip ejection becomes everything on big slabs because most of the bar is in constant contact with the wood. You'll have noticed with any cutting edge, if the teeth get filled with debris, they can't cut properly anymore. You find this drilling wood, you find this doing a really deep cut with a long jigsaw blade, anything. So space between the teeth like in full skip allows the chips to be carried out without clogging the teeth. For Lucas Mills and super long .404 bars like my GB 72", Oregon came up with hyper skip. It spaces a cutting pair of teeth every 9", giving you an enormous amount of room to carry chips out between the teeth on ultra wide slabs. Also requires less saw power. The unfortunate thing about that to me is that they don't make it in 3/8" chain, where it seems like it would be really helpful in expanding the capabilities of a 661 or smaller saws in allowing them to tackle huge slabs, and also improve chip ejection on 3/8 chain, which isn't nearly as good as .404 chain in big slabs. But all this doesn't matter too much to you, because your only choice out of the box ready to go really is full comp in 3/8 ripping chain. There are a variety of guys here including SeMoTony who advocate using square chisel chain, which Stihl makes in skip tooth as 33RSLF as a cross cutting chain, though it's not something I have any experience of nor do I know what angles they file/grind it at. Here again is Madsen's breakdown on it. http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_chisel_qna.htm Until you really develop your skills in all things chainsaw - and I feel the same holds true for me - I'd stick to the standard offerings and not get carried away trying to mod too much of anything at first. I didn't study up enough on filing down rakers, a chain stopped cutting at all the other day and sharpening didn't seem to help, and I knew a lot of people talked about filing the rakers as well as the teeth to keep the gap between them right , and I got carried away and took the rakers WAY down without thinking what that would do. Turned the saw into a jerky kickback nightmare and ruined a perfectly good ripping chain.


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## Leeroy (Nov 26, 2018)

I'd take that ripping chain and file it to 5 degrees or even less and try it.


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## Leeroy (Nov 26, 2018)

Oregon makes a semi skip that I have used for a long time cross cutting, but knew it would make a great milling chain,
and it does. Only running a 24" Granberg, so can't say how it would do on wider cuts.


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 26, 2018)

Leeroy said:


> Oregon makes a semi skip that I have used for a long time cross cutting, but knew it would make a great milling chain,
> and it does. Only running a 24" Granberg, so can't say how it would do on wider cuts.


 Are you using it as is, or filing it back to 5 or 10 degrees first? I'm thinking that I may start getting cross cut chains and turning them into ripping chains. There's just too little variety offered in stock ripping chains. I will at some point file that ruined chain back to where the rakers aren't too hopelessly low but it will require taking an enormous amount off of each tooth to do so because of just how far I took down the rakers. Will have to use an electric chainsaw grinder sharpener rather than a file. It's not a big priority though because it was for my 36" Duromatic .404 hardnose and I don't plan to use that much more for milling and am going to get a .404 42" roller tip bar for my MS880.


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## Leeroy (Nov 26, 2018)

I square file, and usually run a chain on my work saw slowly filing it back to ten degrees or less.
Then it's ready to mill with.


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## BobL (Nov 26, 2018)

George Hurchalla said:


> Are you using it as is, or filing it back to 5 or 10 degrees first? I'm thinking that I may start getting cross cut chains and turning them into ripping chains. There's just too little variety offered in stock ripping chains. I will at some point file that ruined chain back to where the rakers aren't too hopelessly low but it will require taking an enormous amount off of each tooth to do so because of just how far I took down the rakers. Will have to use an electric chainsaw grinder sharpener rather than a file. It's not a big priority though because it was for my 36" Duromatic .404 hardnose and I don't plan to use that much more for milling and am going to get a .404 42" roller tip bar for my MS880.



George, if you measure the raker angle as shown here by the red line below it's pretty easy to work out how much you need to file the cutters back by.
I measure the raker angle using a Digital Angle Finder (DAF) but you can just measure the gullet width (digital callipers) and the raker depth (feeler gauges) and calculate the angle and amount needed to file of teh cutters from there.
If you don't know how to do it then post either the angle, or the gullet width and raker depth.
It may not take much off teh cutters to bring the chain back into something useful.





BTW I usually buy full comp 30º chain and file it back to 10º over successive sharpenings.


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## George Hurchalla (Nov 26, 2018)

Thanks, Bob, the more I read of what milling veterans are doing, the more I'm seeing it's pretty standard for people to buy regular chain and file back the angle with each sharpening. I just got back from a trip to Mexico where I repatriated a variety of my things I had from living and milling down there, and got my digital calipers back and am sure have feeler gauges around somewhere so should be able to do this right. After some initial enthusiasm about milling with my newly fixed 045 Super, I'm less enamored of it or the 056 Super now because the tension pin wants to pop out from the bar on them, loosening the chain, plus the tension screw is near impossible to get at while the head is mounted on the mill. And they're just plain ancient and not as reliable starting all the time as the 880. (I replaced one of the tension screw and pin assemblies, not sure why they have so much play.) Going to focus on getting the bars and chains I want to keep the 880 as the main milling machine in all but the small logs. One of the posts I read you would use an 8 pin up to 30 inch cuts in Aussie hardwood, and then the stock 7 pin above that. Since nearly everything I'm doing is hardwood in the 15-28" range at the moment, seems like I may want to get an 8 pin for most of my work.


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