# Chunking down big wood?



## 9th year rookie (Aug 6, 2007)

I took down a big Red Oak yesterday.
On smaller stuff, I usually put a slice in the front (rather than a face cut) to prevent the bark from pealing down.
On bigger wood, I usually put in a face cut.
I had a guy on the ground (w/more experience than me) suggesting to put in a small (2-3" deep) slice in the front to prevent the peal, then back cut, slightly above. Once 1/2 way in, dog the saw through w/1 hand, and push w/the other hand. 

I know 1 handing isn't the best practice, but I tried.

Couple of issues to note.


1) 93 degrees and toward end of day.
2) I didn't like being behind the wood (on back side of hinge).
I like being perpendicular to the hinge in case the chunk goes the wrong way.
So I was about 1/2 way between where I was comfortable and where I didnt want to be .

Usually I can see it start to move, power down and hang the saw, and push the chunk over. Yesterday, as I got close, the chunk came down and pinched the saw.

The plus side - the slight lean was with me and my rigging set up was near perfect.

Next time, scarf the face cut and tag line to help me move the big stuff.

Comments?  Fire away


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## ropensaddle (Aug 6, 2007)

Well being behind the notch is where I want to be as if the chunk
peels to one side you are out of the way. Also I have got used to
blocking down on arborist block and want tree between me and wood slamming spar. I will place a tag if I am taking out large
hunk but it is a lot safer to take it out smaller an better on chain
as no chance getting saw in dirt on ground.


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## Highclimber OR (Aug 6, 2007)

Good observation. It comes down to what you are comfortable with, as long as it feels good to you.


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## clearance (Aug 6, 2007)

I take it you mean pushing off firewood or so sized blocks? If I am pushing off logs, then I use an undercut. Blocks, I just cut right through, then push as I'm cutting, or grab after and throw down. Big blocks, like 24"+, and heavy, I use a big and powerfull sharp saw. I just start cutting and keep going, the proper saw will keep cutting and not jam. Then I push off the block with both hands.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 6, 2007)

clearance said:


> I take it you mean pushing off firewood or so sized blocks? If I am pushing off logs, then I use an undercut. Blocks, I just cut right through, then push as I'm cutting, or grab after and throw down. Big blocks, like 24"+, and heavy, I use a big and powerfull sharp saw. I just start cutting and keep going, the proper saw will keep cutting and not jam. Then I push off the block with both hands.



Yes I do that sometimes or snap cut on firewood depends on lean and
how close objects are below as big saws can throw chunks of wood also!


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## beowulf343 (Aug 6, 2007)

9th year rookie said:


> Yesterday, as I got close, the chunk came down and pinched the saw.



And i get laughed at for taking up a small felling wedge when chunking a spar.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 6, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> And i get laughed at for taking up a small felling wedge when chunking a spar.



Not from this corner, a wedge is great for that but must know the limitations!!!


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## Bermie (Aug 7, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> And i get laughed at for taking up a small felling wedge when chunking a spar.



Not me, I always have one in my pocket, and use it!

I am dead against one handing where you are in the potential kickback zone, if you are still cutting and pushing at the same time, that chunk can spin at the last minute, trap the saw, kickback...armpit, chest, stomach, right in the firing line.
Those who have been doing this for a long time will be comfortable with their own techniques, one handed or two, and some guys are strong enough to one hand 'safely', I would not.
Do what feels right and is safe for you after you assess the risk to YOUR life and limb!


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## kennertree (Aug 7, 2007)

I use a wedge all the time. The wedge is tied to a string about three feet long and tied to a snap on the other end and clipped to my saddle. Once I get half way through the cut i stick the wedge in the kerf and continue cutting all the way through. After I push the log off the wedge falls off the spar and stays attatched to my saddle.


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## beowulf343 (Aug 7, 2007)

ropensaddle said:


> Not from this corner, a wedge is great for that but must know the limitations!!!



That is correct-won't use it for pulling something against a lean, that's what a rope is for. Just a small 3" wedge. Works great with short, fat chunks where you can't really get good leverage to keep the backcut from pinching.


Bermie said:


> Not me, I always have one in my pocket, and use it!
> 
> I am dead against one handing where you are in the potential kickback zone, if you are still cutting and pushing at the same time, that chunk can spin at the last minute, trap the saw, kickback...armpit, chest, stomach, right in the firing line.



And that's another reason the wedge is used-sucks trying to hold the chunk off the 395 with one hand and trying to finish the cut with the other. Couple taps on the wedge and two hands back on the saw.


kennertree said:


> I use a wedge all the time. The wedge is tied to a string about three feet long and tied to a snap on the other end and clipped to my saddle. Once I get half way through the cut i stick the wedge in the kerf and continue cutting all the way through. After I push the log off the wedge falls off the spar and stays attatched to my saddle.



Awesome-almost the same technique i use. Drilled a hole from side to side at the top of the wedge and ran a string through that hooks right to my saddle. Usually don't even need any kind of hammer-a couple taps with the fist is more than enough to get the job done. 

Interesting that more people than i thought use wedges up a tree. I'm the only climber i've ever run across in this area that uses them on a stem. Figured that since they work good on the ground when logging, why not up the tree when chunking.


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## Bermie (Aug 7, 2007)

kennertree said:


> I use a wedge all the time. The wedge is tied to a string about three feet long and tied to a snap on the other end and clipped to my saddle. Once I get half way through the cut i stick the wedge in the kerf and continue cutting all the way through. After I push the log off the wedge falls off the spar and stays attatched to my saddle.



Hey!! I am so going to do that! I've dropped enough wedges, thanks for the lightbulb moment!!!


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## clearance (Aug 7, 2007)

If the blocks are big enough that you need a 395, they are heavy enough to stay in place while you cut right through, with two hands. No wedges needed on firewood sized blocks.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 7, 2007)

clearance said:


> If the blocks are big enough that you need a 395, they are heavy enough to stay in place while you cut right through, with two hands. No wedges needed on firewood sized blocks.



Clearance while you may have a point in row work the
arborist usually has valuables below his LZ and does not
want the powerful saw throwing the chunk as they sometimes do in that
manner! That is why a wedge or snap cut is used in these instances for
better control of the chunk and less chance of kick back!


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## clearance (Aug 7, 2007)

ropensaddle said:


> Clearance while you may have a point in row work the
> arborist usually has valuables below his LZ and does not
> want the powerful saw throwing the chunk as they sometimes do in that
> manner! That is why a wedge or snap cut is used in these instances for
> better control of the chunk and less chance of kick back!



Rope, I do it all the time, and having a chunk land on a powerline can be worse than some thing on a res. job. Like I said, if the chunk is big enough to require a 395, its not going to get thrown off, just ain't gonna happen. In fact, the blocks get real hard to push off after a while. I well remember using a 288 with a 32" bar to firewood down a big fir. The 16" blocks were like 150lbs.+ Now, when the blocks are smaller, and I'm using my 200, or sometimes even a bigger saw, then of course I one hand. I have used the snap cut, very few times though. When I fall logs I alway use an undercut, backcut with one hand and push with the other, if I can.


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## cntrybo2 (Aug 7, 2007)

correct me please if i am wrong but the name of the arboriculture game is...do everything with a sense of responsibility and control. i dont see how there is EVER a time to one hand, point blank. its not a good saw practice and i dont believe there is ANY good argument for it...its dangerous and before one's carreer is over, the one handed saw will come back to bite them


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## clearance (Aug 8, 2007)

cntrybo2 said:


> correct me please if i am wrong but the name of the arboriculture game is...do everything with a sense of responsibility and control. i dont see how there is EVER a time to one hand, point blank. its not a good saw practice and i dont believe there is ANY good argument for it...its dangerous and before one's carreer is over, the one handed saw will come back to bite them


No big deal, cut how you want to and I'll do the same. There have been big arguement here about it many times.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 8, 2007)

I try not to one hand , however a small climb saw out of a bucket
to cut and pitch limbs and wood, I have done for years with no problems
I do not recommend the practice but will continue to use it when amicable!
I am very careful and know what causes problems doing it but can't lie as
I have done some no,nos without incident!


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## kennertree (Aug 8, 2007)

Bermie said:


> Hey!! I am so going to do that! I've dropped enough wedges, thanks for the lightbulb moment!!!



Just like beowulf343 said, drill a hole in the wedge and run the string through it. I use the same string that i use on my throwball. I got the wedge out just the other day, was chunking down a pretty big one. Be sure to get the plastic wedges though, anything else would be too heavy.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 8, 2007)

kennertree said:


> Just like beowulf343 said, drill a hole in the wedge and run the string through it. I use the same string that i use on my throwball. I got the wedge out just the other day, was chunking down a pretty big one. Be sure to get the plastic wedges though, anything else would be too heavy.



What about the maul


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## clearance (Aug 8, 2007)

I cut my left wrist one handing last year, I was pushing off a top, had taken my finger off the gas but the chain was still spinning, I had cut off the holding wood on one side and she kicked back. Stitches, a few little scars where the bar skipped along, no permanent damage. I admitted it here when it happened, should be honest about these things. So its not without its dangers, if you don't feel confident doing it, don't.


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## Bermie (Aug 8, 2007)

Kudos Clearance, one handing can bite!

My mantra is, as always, "What will happen if this goes wrong?"
If the saw will fall, or kickback, and not cut you or your ropes then cautious one handing has its applications. I do occasionally one hand out on the ends of branches cutting down and away from me and my ropes, but NEVER when reaching over or under or around the saw and the KB zone and never when chunking.

I watched my friend who has a bucket truck that I use, I had done the high stuff and was cutting logs on the ground, he went back up in the bucket to lop off some small stuff, I watched him cut one handed and push chunks, it was scary! His armpit was in the firing line, bits were twisting and pinching, he got it done and I asked his permission to give him some advice...the usual was dispensed, he actually said he could feel the saw getting stuck and jerking back a bit and he is not a trained saw operator!


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 8, 2007)

If I am not mistaken I believe RBtree talked about using small chunks of dial rod placed in the kerf to roll the chunk off the spar..............anyone here try that???


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## Mitchell (Aug 14, 2007)

*rolling chunks*



rahtreelimbs said:


> If I am not mistaken I believe RBtree talked about using small chunks of dial rod placed in the kerf to roll the chunk off the spar..............anyone here try that???




I have not used a roller to get the wood to slide. I was however experimenting a couple weeks ago with angling the cut to get the larger chunks to slide with little or no pushing. 
No doubt due my background in falling, one of the first things I did was to drill a wedge for a 3' string line, seems natural to have a wedge. 
I found with larger blocks [such as 2.5' D + by 4' to 6' blocks] I could get away with having a 5% to 15% angled cut and a 660 cutting slide the block off. The wedge seemed to break the coefficient of friction allowing the block to slide away when the cut was done.
The only problem I for saw with this method was, as the lean was away from the block target and cut angle direction, to tall a block or steep a cut angle could allow the block start sliding but fall backwards.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 14, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> I have not used a roller to get the wood to slide. I was however experimenting a couple weeks ago with angling the cut to get the larger chunks to slide with little or no pushing.
> No doubt due my background in falling, one of the first things I did was to drill a wedge for a 3' string line, seems natural to have a wedge.
> I found with larger blocks [such as 2.5' D + by 4' to 6' blocks] I could get away with having a 5% to 15% angled cut and a 660 cutting slide the block off. The wedge seemed to break the coefficient of friction allowing the block to slide away when the cut was done.
> The only problem I for saw with this method was, as the lean was away from the block target and cut angle direction, to tall a block or steep a cut angle could allow the block start sliding but fall backwards.



Fast cutting is not how I would do blocking a severe headache could
be the result.


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## clearance (Aug 14, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> I have not used a roller to get the wood to slide. I was however experimenting a couple weeks ago with angling the cut to get the larger chunks to slide with little or no pushing.
> No doubt due my background in falling, one of the first things I did was to drill a wedge for a 3' string line, seems natural to have a wedge.
> I found with larger blocks [such as 2.5' D + by 4' to 6' blocks] I could get away with having a 5% to 15% angled cut and a 660 cutting slide the block off. The wedge seemed to break the coefficient of friction allowing the block to slide away when the cut was done.
> The only problem I for saw with this method was, as the lean was away from the block target and cut angle direction, to tall a block or steep a cut angle could allow the block start sliding but fall backwards.



Like I have said earlier, I use undercut/backcut for logs, even small ones like you speak of, thats not much of an angle but all control is lost once you cut through. Rope may be right, you could get tagged pretty good. Firewood, just blow right through it with your 660.


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## Mitchell (Aug 14, 2007)

*how to tip a big chunk*



clearance said:


> Like I have said earlier, I use undercut/backcut for logs, even small ones like you speak of, thats not much of an angle but all control is lost once you cut through. Rope may be right, you could get tagged pretty good. Firewood, just blow right through it with your 660.



Do you folks think the ends don't justify the means. Not being defensive, just trying to learn. I will choose safety over speed so I am intersted in your feedback. A good number of the rounds I was "sliding" were in the 500 to 1000 pounds weight class, even over 50' up. I was trying to speed the process up a bit [well still staying safe of course]. I had a 50' by 50' landing zone to the slight off lean side. 
- Time to effort wise it seemed like undercutting & pulling every round over with a rope was over kill. 
- cutting thinner rounds seemed to promise a life time of cutting as well. 

I have seen pictures of guys using 6' wrecking bars to pry the bigger rounds, I have not tried it. 
For sure, the round cutting method I was using left little room for error, but the rounds seemed to react predictably.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 14, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> Do you folks think the ends don't justify the means. Not being defensive, just trying to learn. I will choose safety over speed so I am intersted in your feedback. A good number of the rounds I was "sliding" were in the 500 to 1000 pounds weight class, even over 50' up. I was trying to speed the process up a bit [well still staying safe of course]. I had a 50' by 50' landing zone to the slight off lean side.
> - Time to effort wise it seemed like undercutting & pulling every round over with a rope was over kill.
> - cutting thinner rounds seemed to promise a life time of cutting as well.
> 
> ...


It is not the predictable
that get you even though they can bite, it is the one that decides to go
to the side or straight back that can make you lame! The snap cut
is one way but any thing that can't be easily pushed, should be pulled
by a groundsman to make sure it go's away from climber. One way to
speed this is have a long rope and tie bowlines on both ends one on the chunk about to be pulled the other with you then put bowline over stub
come down for next cut and retrieve other end this makes you not have
to wait on the ground man. Or have four ropes to do the same idea
I use the first idea but most times I just firewood it down!


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## Mitchell (Aug 14, 2007)

*rope doubled over...*

Is a clever idea, I will give it a try for sure. It' not that often [only couple times] I had to take blocks that were still 3 to 4 feet @ 50 +_feet up. Seems like the cutting will never end and anything safe to speed it up I'm willing to try.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 14, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> Is a clever idea, I will give it a try for sure. It' not that often [only couple times] I had to take blocks that were still 3 to 4 feet @ 50 +_feet up. Seems like the cutting will never end and anything safe to speed it up I'm willing to try.


Ok just make sure it is long enough to get
man pulling clear I did say long rope 200 foot will usually do!


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## ropensaddle (Aug 14, 2007)

Another good idea would be to have four or five fifty foot ropes with 
loop on one end place them on the way up and groundy can snap
or tie in to the loop on each one at a time with an extension rope
I have not been well off enough to afford the cost of that many ropes
for blocking but it would be fast and you would not have to retrieve the
other end groundy just unsnaps & resnaps in to the next one.


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## booboo (Aug 15, 2007)

*?*

Not trying to be rude, just wondering...if I read this right, you're 50' up and have a 50' x 50' LZ, so why are you chunking it down? WAY safer and faster to get it down to the size that will fit the LZ, then just drop the spar. I'll take 1 cut from the ground over 20 cuts in the air any time I can.

As for taking the big chunks off, as everyone else has said, a small felling wedge will keep the saw from binding and a rope on the chunk will pull it off in a nice, controlled fashion. Leaving the running bowline and loop in the end of the rope will save you re-tying the knot for each cut. Just loop it over the top of the stub, drop down, and make your next cut.

My .02

Safety first, even when it 93 degrees (that does seem to make evrything harder though, doesn't it  )

Cheers...


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## alloutdoorsboy (Aug 15, 2007)

*big wood*

if you are blocking down big wood one trick that I find usefull is to make my cut on an angle with the slope pointing towards where you want it to go. Its hard pushing a 200# block off of a flat cut, if it slopes enough it will slide off. Only downside is all the firewood is cut funny.


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## Mitchell (Aug 15, 2007)

*not quite 50'*



booboo said:


> Not trying to be rude, just wondering...if I read this right, you're 50' up and have a 50' x 50' LZ, so why are you chunking it down? WAY safer and faster to get it down to the size that will fit the LZ, then just drop the spar. I'll take 1 cut from the ground over 20 cuts in the air any time I can.
> 
> As for taking the big chunks off, as everyone else has said, a small felling wedge will keep the saw from binding and a rope on the chunk will pull it off in a nice, controlled fashion. Leaving the running bowline and loop in the end of the rope will save you re-tying the knot for each cut. Just loop it over the top of the stub, drop down, and make your next cut.
> 
> ...



Ha ha, that does sound funny; chunking when a spar can be felled. I had 50' to the house and a paved drive way on the opposite side [leaning that way]. I really only had 20' to 25' that could take a direct hit. I did pull over the last twenty five feet against the lean by cutting in a pie more then half way throught the tree [big pita as it was just under 6' d 7 feet up] and having the lads pull it. 

Another point I was curious for input on is as follows: I was trying to take the biggest chunks possible [which is why i had to angle cut them to get them to move] as I figured the less rounds coming down the less chance of a bad bounce into the side of the house. Also I found the bigger the better; the 1000 pounders did not seem to have any tendency to bounce like firewooders. 

sorry about my atrocious spelling but my comupter blocks the spell checker!


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## Mitchell (Aug 15, 2007)

alloutdoorsboy said:


> if you are blocking down big wood one trick that I find usefull is to make my cut on an angle with the slope pointing towards where you want it to go. Its hard pushing a 200# block off of a flat cut, if it slopes enough it will slide off. Only downside is all the firewood is cut funny.



That is what I was doing but I was gettting the angle to the point where I could get the blocks to slide off as the cut finished. And it was a pain to try and roll the bucked rounds around with angles on them. It was easer to chop them into pieces and dolly them. The bigest Fir rounds even with out sharp angles were so fricken heavy they had to be chopped up as well. Lesson learned; I really underestimeated how long it would take 4 guys and three boys to move that stuff around! I had to come back on a sunday and put in 6more hours with a couple guys and my sons.


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## booboo (Aug 16, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> Ha ha, that does sound funny; chunking when a spar can be felled. I had 50' to the house and a paved drive way on the opposite side [leaning that way]. I really only had 20' to 25' that could take a direct hit. I did pull over the last twenty five feet against the lean by cutting in a pie more then half way throught the tree [big pita as it was just under 6' d 7 feet up] and having the lads pull it.
> 
> Another point I was curious for input on is as follows: I was trying to take the biggest chunks possible [which is why i had to angle cut them to get them to move] as I figured the less rounds coming down the less chance of a bad bounce into the side of the house. Also I found the bigger the better; the 1000 pounders did not seem to have any tendency to bounce like firewooders.
> 
> sorry about my atrocious spelling but my comupter blocks the spell checker!



I'm in full agreement on taking the biggest piece possible, as long as it is safe. The fewer cuts I have to make on the spar, the better. In the situation you're describing, I prefer to take log length pieces out, with a tag line on them so the groundies can pull them over. Best control that way. Get the backcut close, shut the saw off, hang it up, make sure I'm in the safest possible position, then pull the log off.

As for the bounce, it all depends on how the piece lands and how soft the ground is. Naturally big pieces will sink in further but when they do bounce, it's a whole lot more weight out of control. Landing wood flat is always best, IMHO. Less damage and bounce.

Once again, cheers...


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