# Outdoor Wood Stoves. Got one?



## MS-310 (Jul 12, 2006)

Who all has an outdoor wood stove (or wants one) and what type do you have? Do you like it? Do you think it eats more wood? I just would like to know. I have been doing wood stoves for about 6 years and been around them for a long time. I love other people idea's on them.
Thanks Jack
mine is a home built 
and have a central boiler and timber wolf that I play with...


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 12, 2006)

Jack, Glad to see you start this thread as I was thinking of starting one myself. For such a hot item there seems to be few discussions on the Internet other than the freestanding stove hugger over at that woodheat site and on Motherearth news where there is a 3 year old thread going that has little activity.

I just purchased a Woodmaster 4400 and we are digging the trench for the lines now. Calculated from winter heat bills of 2004 2005 which was very mild here and those gas rates my stove will be paid for in a little over two heating seasons. I am concerned about wood usage only because of my age as my supply is virtualy endless. Cutting more than 8 cord a year could become tedious I am afraid? I choose Woodmaster because there is a long standing dealer near, the company has been in business for a while, I wanted a round chamber for less welds and I wanted to go with a forced draft/ less water capacity unit instead of the larger capacity/natural draft type.

I hope this becomes an active with good info as there is precious little to choose from.


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## MS-310 (Jul 13, 2006)

Yes everone post some good info on outdoor wood stoves........

Woodmaster is a very good unit I have worked on a few of these units. I have been a non powered draft type person for a couple reasons.
1. They will use a little bit more wood(your pushing the hot air faster through the fire box then a nat. draft stove)
2. They will use a little bit more power. (not much more)
Ok i only have 2 
They have alot faster recovery time.
I like simple stoves they have less stuff to go bad on them....
Is your woodmaster about 5000sqft heating space??? I cant rember.
Jack


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 13, 2006)

Ya, 5000 sounds right. It is the mid-sized unit sold to heat a house plus a garage. The Woodmaster dealer has sold three trailer loads, 36 total I think since Jan 1. No dealer around here can get enough stoves. Sorta reminds a fella of a land rush. Id just like to see some good info be exchanged on fuel usage, problems, modifications etc. I read over on the woodheat site where some dude claimed to be using like 25 cords a year to heat with his outside boiler and another over at Motherearth news and lives in Quebec claims to be heating his hose with 2 cord, ya right! to both claims. I just measured my wood piles and looks like I have 5 cord of mostly wild cherry split and stacked beside the stove, 16 cord of Hickory and Oak stacked out at the farm and another 3-4 cord of Sycamore stacked in the woods. I am hoping that is close to 3 years worth of wood so I can keep ahead with seasoning. The big smoke output I read about just doesn't add up either. I have been watching outside boilers work for several heating seasons around here and smoke never crossed my mind until I read about it on the Internet. Must be something to it because I see where they have been banned in certain more socialist parts of the country. I also toiled about stainless vs carbon and ended up with a 1/4" carbon unit. Woodmaster has supposedly suspended production of 409 SS units due to warranty problems and my dealer said stay away from any SS unit. I guess by the time I have all of this figured out I'll be too old to have worry about it, LOL


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## MS-310 (Jul 13, 2006)

Smoke My @ss 

They dont smoke that much only when they start up. Some people just dont under stand the idea. You are going to us about 4 to 6 cords of wood, it my be less or more but avg. is 4 to 6 cords. Mine burns about 3 cords of wood a year, my house is old but only 1800 sqft. (and thats all im heating). any more ??????
Jack


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## ghitch75 (Jul 13, 2006)

i have and sell crown royal stoves...been putting them in for the last 5 years(been doing HVAC work for 25 years)...i can get by on about 3 cords (1600sft + water heater)..that all summer to doing the water heater never shut it down...i have the 7200 model will take 32" logs but we have one that take up to a 60" log 7500 model...done one job for a guy with an in ground pool (34,000 gallons) and a 5000sft house and 2400sft pole barn and he keeps the pool at 92 degrees in the winter and he only burn't 10 cords last winter with a 7400...i really like mine and the ones we sell...mine only smokes for the 5 min's or so at fire up then you can't even tell it's running


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## northernmover (Jul 13, 2006)

I bought a Central Boiler last year & am very happy with it. I spent days and days researching all the brands available in my area, and found that the Central Boiler is the best bang for the buck. It retails a little higher than other brands, but with the 25 year warranty, better insulation, and overall better built, I highly recommend it.


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 13, 2006)

Some pics of whats going on with my installation.

The trench hand dug by the boys, they come in handy. 62 feet to the house and 3 foot deep

<IMG SRC=http://tinypic.com/1zx4o7r.jpg>

The 4400 Woodmaster and part of the woodpile

<IMG SRC=http://tinypic.com/1zx5bmw.jpg>

The building in the backgorund is my shop. It will be heated with a seperate loop. The wood pile is mostly Cherry tha I used in a free standing stove in the shop.

<IMG SRC=http://tinypic.com/1zx5esz.jpg>


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## SWAMPY036 (Jul 14, 2006)

*central 5600*

I bought a central wood boiler 2 yrs ago. My family and I love it. We do go through a little more wood about 30 cord. Still not bad for 3000 sq ft 2 story house thats 150 yrs old. That is also all my domestic hot water. I have base board heaters they work great with this system. The only hidden cost to these is the pipe that goes from the unit to the house. Check price before you choose how far to set it away. Also I put mine up on a course of block so i would not have to bent over filling it. In all it is the best investment I have ever made.


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 14, 2006)

SWAMPY036 said:


> I bought a central wood boiler 2 yrs ago. My family and I love it. We do go through a little more wood about 30 cord. Still not bad for 3000 sq ft 2 story house thats 150 yrs old. That is also all my domestic hot water. I have base board heaters they work great with this system. The only hidden cost to these is the pipe that goes from the unit to the house. Check price before you choose how far to set it away. Also I put mine up on a course of block so i would not have to bent over filling it. In all it is the best investment I have ever made.



Seriously, 30 cord? 30x 8'x4'x4'? Id need a firewood processer to get that much cut and split every year, lol.


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## jags (Jul 14, 2006)

30 cords?? OMG!! That would be a stack 4 ft high 16" deep for 720 feet


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## Bad E (Jul 14, 2006)

I'll bet hes talking face cords.


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## SWAMPY036 (Jul 14, 2006)

*30 cord*

Yes a small oversight 30 face cord sorry.


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## northernmover (Jul 14, 2006)

30 face cord is about right for my Central Boiler also. I used "thermoflex" tubing in the ground. Cost more $$, but seems to be worth it.


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## SWAMPY036 (Jul 15, 2006)

*central*

With my central boiler I filled it with glycol I got 300 gal. for free. But you can mix in antifreeze to get a lower freezing temp. I have a furnace that can be ran to maintain the house temp. so the pipes do not freeze. This works out great if you go on vacation in the winter. Mainly because you have to rely on someone to feed the boiler. These units cost enough that you would not want the reservoir or the pumps on the side to freeze. This is just a idea someone else might like also.


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## cbrslider (Jul 15, 2006)

I have an Empyre 250 and have used it for two winters. I have a brand new home and have unfortunate but very serious heating issues within the house. They are not a result of the boiler but rather very shoddy heating installation. I went through 18 cords and that's full cords last year alone heating my 2000sqft home. I have my boiler approximately 75' from my house and run 1" pex for my supply and return, thats bubble wrapped and inside drain pipe. The pipe is only 2' underground but really there wasn't a significant snow melt from heat loss. The boiler unit is a knock off or clone to the ripple top design of the central boiler. The unit is well made and short of the possible problems with the underground lines, was definately a great investment. My first year of use was just heating the house while the contractor was finishing the inside. That year alone I burnt approx. 10 cords of hardwoods, 1.5 ton of mine run coal, and TWO 200gallon propane tanks full of propane. That was when it was very evident that there were serious issues with the inside heat. 

We are still working to understand the problems and are trying to figure them out. Until then I work on cutting my firewood for this winter like a colony of ants preparing for winter. I already have 7.5 cords cut, split, and stacked, and 4 more cut waiting to be split. Even though I have spent considerable time cutting wood to heat my house, I would never have been able to heat it with propane. I would have had over $4000 in propane alone for the entire year. Especially since I heat my domestic hot water with my heating system. So the outside boiler may be labor intensive but it at least has saved me a considerable amount of money.

Thanks
Ray


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## MS-310 (Jul 15, 2006)

Do you guys know of any Outdoorwood stove forums?????

I love thermopex....


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 17, 2006)

I have been lurking for a while and looking around the internet becouse I am building my own stove. The biggest concern I have is the underground pipes. There is a dealer for global hydronics here in town and he sells pipe wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a drain tile. I was going to do this on my own but I would like some feed back from someone using pipes insulated in this manner. Not sold on the set up but 10.00 plus a foot is not an option.
So i am looking for options
This week I will take a few of of my stove so far anf get them up for you fellas to see 
Thanks Brian


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## MS-310 (Jul 17, 2006)

Dont buy that bubble wrap crap.... Make your own or buy it from me its made of 3inch foam and is in a sleave to keep water out. I live in Nasville MI(made 5 home built stoves) we sell timberwolf outdoor wood stoves. 
269-838-2011
call me Jack.


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## ghitch75 (Jul 17, 2006)

here is what you want for underground pipe...easy to install and just about zero heat loss


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 17, 2006)

What kind of cost are you talking Gitch?
Brian


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## ghitch75 (Jul 17, 2006)

$10.75 a foot + shipping


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 17, 2006)

Man it looks like its worth the cost so dont get me wrong I just dont have it in the bugdet. I need to go 125 ft and i was really hoping to get it done for about half that. I know its not the best place to skimp but do you have any ideas?
Thanks


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## MS-310 (Jul 17, 2006)

My type you have to build. for ever 100 ft you will lose about 2deg. at 0deg ground temp. $6.20 per foot. sell lots of it, just a little harder to put together.
Jack


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 17, 2006)

Sounds a bit better do you have any info?
Thanks Brian


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## MS-310 (Jul 17, 2006)

We used to buy this type from central boiler a long time ago, they stoped making this type and we started to. They went to a foam tube for a time then now the have thermopex 10.75 a foot or so. I got other parts you mite need call me or PM me on it.

Jack


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks I will call tonight at 5:00 or so
Brian


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## MS-310 (Jul 17, 2006)

sounds fine, Its my cell phone and I should be at the barry county fair with one of are stoves... leave a messages if i dont pick up and i will call you back
Thanks Jack.


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## tazz001 (Jul 17, 2006)

We have a Central Boiler, Classic model 400. We have had it 12 years now..never a water leak and believe me...we have burned stuff in it they say not to 

Well worth the $$ invested. 

Ours was installed with 1 inch butyl radiant floor heat hose wrapped in insulation and stuffed into 4 inch schedule 40...and yeap...we can see a heat loss but I am not about to dig it up anytime soon...we will just deal with it for now!!

Can't say enough good about the stoves...and the local guy sells them like hotcakes..

Depending on weather condition we go thru about 10 full cord a year


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## mjs97 (Jul 17, 2006)

why couldn't a guy make that pex flex? use spray foam insulation inside 4in. tile or something. maybe make some spacers to keep lines centered and seperated inside tile while foam is sprayed in one end of tile. would have to be cheaper than 10.50 a ft.

just thinking,

matt


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## northernmover (Jul 17, 2006)

I know someone with the sleave type pipe & he has all kinds of heat loss in a 30' run. The ground doesn't even freeze near the line. The pex was the only option for me. Any loss in the ground is too much loss. 10.75/foot may be worth it in the long run.


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## MS-310 (Jul 18, 2006)

You do get what you pay for.


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## smithm (Jul 18, 2006)

Fish4Brains said:


> I have been lurking for a while and looking around the internet becouse I am building my own stove. The biggest concern I have is the underground pipes. There is a dealer for global hydronics here in town and he sells pipe wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a drain tile. I was going to do this on my own but I would like some feed back from someone using pipes insulated in this manner. Not sold on the set up but 10.00 plus a foot is not an option.
> So i am looking for options
> This week I will take a few of of my stove so far anf get them up for you fellas to see
> Thanks Brian



Brian, I put together my own tubing. It was a pain, but I got it done for pretty cheap and I am 200ft behind my house. Menards has everything you need. 1" PEX tubing, radiant bubble wrap(around each tube), r-13 fiberglass(wrapped around both tubes together), duct tape(every 6-8 inches), 6" drain tile(check it for holes).

I will be checking heat loss this winter with thermometers installed, but I do not think I lose much heat at all.

Mike Smith


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## tazz001 (Jul 18, 2006)

Well guys, when we installed our stove 12 years ago the only stuff that was available was thru Central Boiler...it was a foam that you laid the piping in and then buried...the guy we bought the stove from said it was "down right impossible" to keep the tubing in and heat loss was an issue.

Since we haven't had any water leaks or issues with the tubing and heat loss is miminal we haven't warranted replacing it. We only have a 4-5 degree heat loss between the stove and inside oil burner...but that could also be just gauge issues...but during the early spring I see grass sprouting over the area where the lines are buried...

Still I can't justify replacing something that works (even with the heat loss) and messing up the lawn again!!


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## MS-310 (Jul 18, 2006)

tazz001 said:


> Well guys, when we installed our stove 12 years ago the only stuff that was available was thru Central Boiler...it was a foam that you laid the piping in and then buried...the guy we bought the stove from said it was "down right impossible" to keep the tubing in and heat loss was an issue.
> 
> Since we haven't had any water leaks or issues with the tubing and heat loss is miminal we haven't warranted replacing it. We only have a 4-5 degree heat loss between the stove and inside oil burner...but that could also be just gauge issues...but during the early spring I see grass sprouting over the area where the lines are buried...
> 
> Still I can't justify replacing something that works (even with the heat loss) and messing up the lawn again!!



Very true,

a little bit more wood for a savings of 4 to 5 bucks a foot is worth it for me.
I used to use that central boiler stuff and I still do works very well.
Jack


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jul 18, 2006)

cbrslider said:


> The pipe is only 2' underground but really there wasn't a significant snow melt from heat loss. ..... That year alone I burnt approx. 10 cords of hardwoods, 1.5 ton of mine run coal, and TWO 200gallon propane tanks full of propane.



And how much did that cost compared to using the correct type of pipe?

Look into the energy it takes to melt snow. ANY snow melt is significant! ANY snow melt from pipes 2’ underground means serious heat loss.


Something in the neighborhood of 33 years ago, I worked for a company that sold commercial plumbing products. Inside sales job. Had to learn all of the products, how to spec them, how to price them. (Hey, wanna talk about water hammer arresters? Commercial toilet mounts?  ) One of our lines was insulated pipe. Copper or PVC pipe in a PVC jacket (4” to 6”) with foam insulation in between. Not cheap, I’m sure, but I don’t remember the numbers. So the stuff has been available at least that long, if you know where to look. Sometimes it helps to break out of the homeowner mindset and look at what’s available in the commercial world.

Anyway, based on what I learned about heat loss at that gig, I’d have to say that if you are talking about bubble wrap & clay tile, you are throwing money away. Yes, even with radiant bubble wrap.


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## tazz001 (Jul 18, 2006)

For us it is not the cost of the newer tubing...more on the cost of backhoe (if memory is correct...2 feet underground)and aggravation of tearing up the lawn again....and since this is an arborist sight...damaging the 2 blue spruce trees that the piping goes between. yeah only nasty ol spruce trees but these babies have been raised from fingerlings that my dad used to get from NYS DEC


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## cbrslider (Jul 23, 2006)

"And how much did that cost compared to using the correct type of pipe?

Look into the energy it takes to melt snow. ANY snow melt is significant! ANY snow melt from pipes 2’ underground means serious heat loss."

I agree that it is a problem. I used a thermometer and only found a difference of 3degrees from the temp in the feed line at the boiler to the feed line as it comes into my house. So I just counted it as not that big of a loss. I just wish I could figure out exactly what else is wrong with the setup. I hate to do it all over again but looks like I'll be digging up my lines again and burying them about 5' down, inside what has not been decided yet though. Lookin for suggestions.

Ray


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## Pcoz88 (Jul 25, 2006)

*outdoor wood boiler seminar*

Ther's an out door wood furance seminar in Norwalk,Ohio on the 3(thursday) of Aug.Iam going to go.Just to get more info on these units.A Central Boiler dealer.


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## ghitch75 (Jul 25, 2006)

cbrslider what size coil do you have in your furnace?...i have found that the coils dealers are sell don't make the btu's thet say they do...like a 16"x18" with 3 rows of 3/8" tube only makes about 68,000 btu's at 180 degress and the dealers say 139,000 btu's...so if your boiler drops to 160 that would only make around 48,000 btu's...


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 25, 2006)

That is the size coil I was thinking of using. I have a 1800 ft house new construction with high ceilings. Heats pretty well. Maybee thats on the light side? Thoughts?
Thanks Brian.
Also I will post some pix later in the week of my stoves progress. Things are moving along well.


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## ghitch75 (Jul 25, 2006)

in Michigan you figure 50 btu's per square foot so for 1800sft you need 90,000 btu's


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 25, 2006)

Thanks for the reply it looks like I had better bump it up 25% or so.
Brian


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 25, 2006)

ghitch75 said:


> cbrslider what size coil do you have in your furnace?...i have found that the coils dealers are sell don't make the btu's thet say they do...like a 16"x18" with 3 rows of 3/8" tube only makes about 68,000 btu's at 180 degress and the dealers say 139,000 btu's...so if your boiler drops to 160 that would only make around 48,000 btu's...



Not questioning your facts but wouldn't air flow affect BTU output also? or not? I have yet to purchase my heat exchanger and this subject is of interest to me. The literature that came with my outdoor furnace suggests a need to speed the fan up. How does one determain airflow needs other than by best guess? As you suggested, my dealer implied that a few degrees in water temp would have a great affect not only upon the BTUs delivered but fuel usage.


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## ghitch75 (Jul 25, 2006)

faster fan speed will move more cfm and in turn cool the coil(water) faster and your out let temp drops your return water will get to low and you boiler will eat wood and not heat right...the way i size the coil for a house is by btu's per square foot and you need to know the gpm of the pump with head and line loss and the cfm you heating system will make...there is no just one size to fit all when it comes to coils...i have all my coils made to fit each job and that all depends on how the heating system was installed in the first place.....

the 16"x18" coil @ 78,000btu's is with 6gpm and 1200cfm with inlet temp of 70 degress F and 180 inlet water temp


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 25, 2006)

Gitch, it sounds like you have some expirience with these systems. are you a reseller/ installer?
Maybe I could sway you to look over my system design when I get a little farther. The fella here in town that sells the stuff does not seem to sharp and he is so opinionated its scares me. I will be purchasing a pump aquastat and exchanger to name a few items in the near future.
Brian


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## cbrslider (Jul 25, 2006)

"cbrslider what size coil do you have in your furnace?"

I don't understand what you are asking. I don't know anything about coils in my furnace. I have hotwater baseboard on my first and 1/2 story, then radiant in my basement floor. The outdoor boiler water comes from the boiler to a heat exchanger inside the house that is tied into my propane system(backup system?). I am lost when you talk about the coil. My heat exchanger is a 30 plate unit, if that helps. 

The stove is supposed to put out 250000btu's and my propane unit is 115000btu's. So I should have more than enough outdoor boiler to heat my house. 

Since we are on this technical stuff...should the primary loop pump run continuous 24/7 even when there aren't any zones calling for heat? The primary pump and the pump circulating the inside(from the primary loop water)water thru my heat exchanger both run constantly even now as I type this and it's 75degrees outside. I know that the pump from the boiler to the house is to run continuously but the other two pumps are running constant also. 

Thanks guys.

Ray


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## ghitch75 (Jul 26, 2006)

heat exchangers and air to water coils are two different things...if i was hooking up yours cbrslider i would put a 3 way zone valve in the line going to and from the boiler(wood) to turn the water back to the boiler(wood) when your propane system is not calling for heat...as far as your pumps on your propane system do you have zone valves for each section of your house and the pumps are turned on with them?....if you don't want to run the pump 24/7 on your boiler(wood) you can run a 2 wire (18g) to a relay and kick the pump on when you system calls for heat...


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## ghitch75 (Jul 26, 2006)

Fish4Brains said:


> Gitch, it sounds like you have some expirience with these systems. are you a reseller/ installer?
> Maybe I could sway you to look over my system design when I get a little farther. The fella here in town that sells the stuff does not seem to sharp and he is so opinionated its scares me. I will be purchasing a pump aquastat and exchanger to name a few items in the near future.
> Brian



yes to both be doing HVAC and boiler work for 25+ years and been doing wood boilers for the past 5 years and i can get any part you need( pumps, coils,piping,controls,ect) and yes i'll help you all i can


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 26, 2006)

ghitch75 said:


> faster fan speed will move more cfm and in turn cool the coil(water) faster and your out let temp drops your return water will get to low and you boiler will eat wood and not heat right...the way i size the coil for a house is by btu's per square foot and you need to know the gpm of the pump with head and line loss and the cfm you heating system will make...there is no just one size to fit all when it comes to coils...i have all my coils made to fit each job and that all depends on how the heating system was installed in the first place.....
> 
> the 16"x18" coil @ 78,000btu's is with 6gpm and 1200cfm with inlet temp of 70 degress F and 180 inlet water temp



Again, please don't take this as questioning your facts or experience, I am trying to learn and here is my problem, I am trying to save a few bucks and do this myself otherwise i wouldnt be on the internet asking. Do I need to call upon a HVAC pro with all the wits and equipment to analyze my house and system? All of the stove dealers act like it's a no brainer, purchase X BTU coil, make it fit your duct, hook it up, adjust boiler temps so it works the best and uses least fuel and enjoy. I doubt that it is that simple but also wonder how far I need to go in complicating it. 

To offer you some facts in my case my Hi-Ef natural gas forced air system icluding new ductwork was professionaly installed about 10 years ago and has operated with no complaints, fuel use or otherwise so I would assume ( I know bad thing to do) that the system was sized and installed correctly. Are you saying that in my case (assume proper air flows) that the still need to completly retest and calculate flows in order to get the exchanger right?


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## ghitch75 (Jul 26, 2006)

Butch(OH) try to size the coils to the cfm your system makes(the model # of your furnace will tell you that).. call the people you had install it and they can tell you and as far as the size of coil you need well depend on what btu your furance is and the cfm and the flow rate of you pump..line size is one of most importent things to get right don't run anything small than 1" to the house from the boiler...are you hooking your water heater to it too?....90% for the guys selling boilers have no HVAC training they go by rule of thumb and they make it sound like you just shove it in and it works not always the case....thats why we have heat loss heat gain calculartors to get it right.... it will all show it's self when it get down below 20df outside and you won't be warm and you can't get enough wood in the boiler....i'm not saying they are all like this just what i'v seen over the years...if you want to be happy with your system and to run as best as it can get as much info as you can so your not doing it twice........if you would pm me your brand for boiler and the of spec's of your system i could tell you alot more.


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## cbrslider (Jul 28, 2006)

"if you want to be happy with your system and to run as best as it can get as much info as you can so your not doing it twice."


AMEN! Thats the best and only way to put it!!!! I thought I had enough information. I read about all the boilers and their designs, materials manufactured with, warranties, stainless vs. plate steel, etc. But there was more I didn't look into. Look into the lines underground, the material that is used to insulate the lines, the heat exchanger-water to water or water to air, pumps needed to get the hot water to the house, etc. 

I wish I would have had all the information that I needed before I dropped the large sum of cash on a system that is not working nearly up to the speed that it should. I am going to have to dig up my lines and replace them along with re-wiring the system inside the house. All adding up to spending double on something that I should have only paid for once.

ghitch75- I have zone pumps(taco 007) on each zone in my house except the basement radiant floor(taco 0011)which is another fiasco in and of itself. Each zone kicks on when the thermostat in the room(zone) calls for heat. My concern is that the primary loop pump runs constantly when there is no call for heat in any of the zones, thus running down the temp of the primary loop due to the water constantly flowing thru 10-12' of uninsulated pipe, causing my propane to kick on. It is running as I type this and nothing has called for heat all day.

Thanks

Ray


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## tawilson (Jul 29, 2006)

How about if you put a three way valve in the primary loop with an aquastat so if the temp drops below say 150F it just recirculates, bypassing your propane boiler? If I ever add a wood boiler to my oil boiler system I thought this work.


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## MS-310 (Jul 31, 2006)

Fish4Brains said:


> Gitch, it sounds like you have some expirience with these systems. are you a reseller/ installer?
> Maybe I could sway you to look over my system design when I get a little farther. The fella here in town that sells the stuff does not seem to sharp and he is so opinionated its scares me. I will be purchasing a pump aquastat and exchanger to name a few items in the near future.
> Brian



What town do you live in, what dealer???? Im sure I would know them.


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 31, 2006)

I am going to leave him out of the conversation. He has not done any wrong I just get nervous around people that tend to think if they make other products look like trash theres will have to look good. you know what I mean.


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 31, 2006)

Posting pix of my stove so far.....well maybee
Just before the water jacket front





Finishing up the water jacket.




ready for hinges




My largest walley to date 13.5 lbs couldnt resist.




Any constructive criticism is welcome. I plan on running water in the door and insulating it as well.
Later Brian


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## ghitch75 (Jul 31, 2006)

nice job and fish too!....what do you think your water cap. is going to be?...are you going to have grates in the bottom?...as far as water goes anything less than a 100 gallons will cause to to cycle alot(and depending on load=btu draw)....if it cycles to much you can always add a couple 50 gallon water heater tanks to it for more cap.


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 31, 2006)

230 gallons and thanks


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 31, 2006)

Oh and no grates but probably forced air


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## ghitch75 (Jul 31, 2006)

forced air would be good make it fire up faster


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## Fish4Brains (Jul 31, 2006)

I was actually thinking I would only run the air for the first period of the cycle then let the natural draft work once it was going good kinda like a force start then natural draft. I will see how it runs and get a feel for what she likes.
Brian


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## MS-310 (Jul 31, 2006)

Alsome job!!!


The last one I made was kinda like it and it has been the best one yet.
I had a 30lb spool of mig wire in it also, Make sure you put some stay bolts in it also, I always wanted to put some hand holes on the water jacket to clean any junk in the water jacket... Just an Idea
Jack


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 1, 2006)

Can you explain a "stay bolt"?
I have not heard that before but if I need to make sure they are there I need an education.
Thanks


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## MS-310 (Aug 1, 2006)

They are "bolts" rods welded from the out side of the water jacket and thought the water to the inside of the fire box. Stay bolts keep the walls of the fire jacket from warping and keep the box from desorting. I didnt do this on my first 2 and have not had a problem yet but im sure in time this will happen. You could use 3/4inch or 5/8 cold rolled steal rod for this, Or go to you local boiler shop and ask them what they use for sure. k-zoo boiler could tell you the type of steel to use thats the best. I sure mild steel will be just fine. One other thing is that you will need to us a rust perventer, can get this is at a local wood stove place. You are making this an open system right???? (open vent on top of the stove) 


Ps. Y they make the bolts go thought both boxes is so they can be repalced easy and put to gether also.

If you got any more ??? ask away.
plus make sure you slow the smoke down on its way though the fire box to the exit pipe. Smoke is fuel and heat so the more smoke you can burn or slow down so it can get burnt is going to help you out lots.


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 1, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I do have some "braces" going between the two for support but they are permanent not replaceable. I also have a piece of channel I will be putting in the roof for a "baffle" it will run from just short of the front to the back and the smoke will have to enter it and go thru it to exit. I will be incorporating a smoke by pass as well so when loading I won't be getting a face full of smoke. Also i am waiting to water check it untill I get the majority of the plumbing on. Not wanting to fill it up and let the rust work untill i finish and get the corrision inhibiter in it. Thanks for the tips. I plan on building a second when this thing dies but not before. Just a tinkerer and I love to build stuff that scares most mamas boys.
Later


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## mjs97 (Aug 1, 2006)

i am also building a outside boiler. mine is round design, firebox 1/4 in. and jacket is 1/8in. i wouldn't think being round that i would need stay pins. what do you think? i have box supported on ends but nothing in middle as of now. was afraid if it did move it might poke hole in jacket possibly. thoughts on this?

thanks,
matt


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 1, 2006)

I would think you would want something in there. Maybee a blade style instead of a round type it would have to be permanant. Did you salvadge material or buy rolled steel?
I was going to do round but the cost of the rolled material was outragous here.
Brian


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## mjs97 (Aug 1, 2006)

i had it rolled using new steel. cost was about $1000. alot of money but i know what i got now. i just liked the round concept but yours looks like it should work good also. my flue is exiting out the back, with a baffle in front of it making the heat and smoke go down to escape. will have power draft but will have switch to shut it off if i want to and use natural draft. 

concern is having smoke exit door while filling, but am thinking of welding in a 6 in. lip or so to keep heat and smoke in box.



matt


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 1, 2006)

Yes the smoke blowing in your face is not a desirable condition. Not sure what to do with a permanant baffle. in a round design maybe you could make the center of your baffle hinge and give yourself the ability to flip it up by way of a rod brought thru the front wall so the smoke goes directly out the hole. mine will be similar to this only it will be a horizontal drag . A grand for the rolling is what I was anticipating but my quotes were way more like 1600 so I canned it and whent with square all my material came to about a grand to.


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 2, 2006)

*Heat exchanger for shop?*

My installation is coming along nicely. Lines and conduit is all burried and covered back up. Pad is in place for stove. Stove is next to my small (20x20) shop that is well insulated. I plan to heat it also. Proper heat exchangers cost too much and I want to be cheapo if possible. Been thinking about a car radiator and box fan controlled by line voltage thermostat for the shop. Since this brain storm I have been trying hard to find a reason why it would work and cant come up with one. Any thoughts? be nice now, LOL


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 2, 2006)

I was thinking along the same lines as my setup will be verry similar. One thought I had was to get a small radiator from an import with the fan already on it, would need a 12 volt power supply to run it but thats cheap. I like the idea let me know how it turns out. 
What type of conduit did you use for underground?
Brian


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 2, 2006)

The 60' run to the house is a product made in CA. (cant remember the name) It is a 4" PVC covered with about 2" of urethane foam and an outer covering. It comes in 10' joints and is ridged so you need elbows for corners. I will pull std Pex line throgh it. Selling point was the pex can be changed out without excavating the yard. Power is coming from the shop through Std 1" PVC conduit in the same trench with 4" PVC. I will insulate Std pex line before pulling it to the shop, about 10' run. The power leads will terminate with a plug and wall socket to make generator hook up easy. Stove supplier reccomended switch for each pump for ease of service. Radiator could come from several sources but is free, as is line voltage thermostat thet I had for space heater. Fan will cost $10-15 I 'spose? A fellow down the road is using the heater out of a school bus to heat an entire business building in the manner you speak off with a converter. I don't have any old buses nor have any buddy's with one in the back yard, LOL


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## MS-310 (Aug 2, 2006)

I would find an fan out of an old furnace, round ones and but an 110 stat on it and it will work very well. i would go for an new import rad. cuz im sure it will be more efficent then an old big 4 core one. 
Jack


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## MS-310 (Aug 2, 2006)

I now will be caring MICRO flex line very nice stuff $10.50 per foot.

JAck


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 4, 2006)

MS can youtell what outside diameter the foam insulation you sell is ?
Also is it polysterene material.
Thanks
Brian


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## bwalker (Aug 4, 2006)

> here is what you want for underground pipe...easy to install and just about zero heat loss
> Attached Images pipe 1 (Small).jpg (59.6 KB, 93 views)


 I gotta call BS on this. I have this exact pipe and there is a line of bare ground from my furnace to the house when there is snow in the ground. I had previously used insul seal and it was much better albeit more of a pain to install.
FWIW its burried 24'' deep.


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## slabracing (Aug 5, 2006)

*thrmostst wiring*

would anyone be willing to post how they wired the second thermostat(for outdoor furnace control) into existing forced air system?


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## bwalker (Aug 5, 2006)

I am going on my fourth season with Heatmore. I havent had any problems with it.
Couple words of advice on wood boilers. 1. put some thought into placement. I have moved mine form its original position and its a pain in the azz. 2. Claims of efficiancy and such are mostly BS as ALL wood boilers use more wood than a regular stove so plan accordingly.
FWIW I live in the UP of MI and have a new construction 2000 square foot home with lots of windows. My wifes is always cold so the heat is set at about 75. I run the boiler form Oct 1 through April 28. I use between 7-10 cords of green hardwood on average. If I use seasoned wood its about a cord less. 
Someone living in a colder climate like MN or Northern Ontario/away from the lakes or with a older home is going to use more wood.


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## MS-310 (Aug 7, 2006)

Fish4Brains said:


> MS can youtell what outside diameter the foam insulation you sell is ?
> Also is it polysterene material.
> Thanks
> Brian


The stuff we make here is about 6to 7inch in dia. The microflex is 5 inch. 
yes, the stuff we make is out of a polysterene material.


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## MS-310 (Aug 7, 2006)

slabracing said:


> would anyone be willing to post how they wired the second thermostat(for outdoor furnace control) into existing forced air system?



Yes if you have 4wire thermostat wire its very easy, you take 2 wires and tie in to the red and green wires on the existing thermostat and then hook the 2 wires to the red and white side of the new thermostate(ether color to ether color) all this is doing is kicking on the fan and blowing air thought the rad. You will need to pull the fuse out of the air cond, unit cuz some times this back feeds and turns on the air in the middle of the winter. so in the summer you can put the fuse back in and just use your other thermostat like you used before. If you dont understand call me for any ?????
Jack
269-838-2011


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## ghitch75 (Aug 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I gotta call BS on this. I have this exact pipe and there is a line of bare ground from my furnace to the house when there is snow in the ground. I had previously used insul seal and it was much better albeit more of a pain to install.
> FWIW its burried 24'' deep.



your the only one out of over 75 that we have on logstor pipe to say this....we have one guy with his lieing right on top of the ground and snow stays on it till the sun hits it....you sure you got logstor from Denmark?


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## ghitch75 (Aug 7, 2006)

A $6.00 DP DT relay will do it and you don't have to pull the fuse on your A/C and won't run the risk of burning it out beeing made all winter long


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 7, 2006)

Hey Gitch can you elaborate on how to wire the relay. I have not dug into the thermosatat wiring yet but I am interested in your method.
Thanks Brian


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## ghitch75 (Aug 7, 2006)

i'll make a diagram


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 7, 2006)

That would be MIGHTY nice. 
Thank you, Brian
Knowledge is power


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## bwalker (Aug 7, 2006)

> your the only one out of over 75 that we have on logstor pipe to say this....we have one guy with his lieing right on top of the ground and snow stays on it till the sun hits it....you sure you got logstor from Denmark?


 I am certain it is log store as I called the company headquarters to find a dealer near me. There is no way in heck snow will cover mine, unless its below zero.
BTW I am not supprised your customers in Indiana dont see what I do as you do not have winter long snow cover like we do.


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## MS-310 (Aug 7, 2006)

ghitch75 said:


> A $6.00 DP DT relay will do it and you don't have to pull the fuse on your A/C and won't run the risk of burning it out beeing made all winter long



Yes show me the way.....

I never seen one get hurt but im sure in some one's case it has happened. I really want to see the relay im trying to think how it works. 
Plus that logstor pipe, I have seen it 24inch down and you can see where it is, its my dads house that I put it in and he is still yelling at me for it, and thats why we are going to the MICRO FLEX pipe. Better pipe for the same money, have seen it in the dirt 5 or 6 inch and cant see where it is buried in the winter, got to love it. Glitch if you may want to try some I got a really good hook up it and would tell you where im getting it. 
JAck


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## bwalker (Aug 7, 2006)

MS-310, You have a link for the micro flex pipe?
Log store stuff is a ripoff IMO.


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 8, 2006)

The wood usage that Bwalker posted are well within the range I was given by my stove supplier and not that different than I experienced with the add-on wood furnace in the basement. I suspect that most of the usage complaints are from poor installations and from people who used to heat a room or two with wood and expect that the whole house can be properly heated plus domestic water with similar amounts of wood But that is pure speculation. My neighbors who have outside wood boilers have no complaints for wood usage and I have not seen train loads of wood being dumped in their yards. I am disappointed that the stove Mfgs send generic instructions for wiring up a thermostat to model 1912 furnaces that few have in their houses and to "change the pulley sizes" on drives that we don't have. How many still have those old furnaces? I like to know how you afford to run them? I replaced mine 10 years ago. Anyway the thermostat for my hi-ef furnace has a "FAN ON" feature that runs the fan on the fastest speed. I plan on breaking into that circuit with an additional thermostat and leaving the FAN ON switch on when running the boiler. If that causes troubles I will use some help from not far away that was offered here on an earlier thread or a local HVAC guy.


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## MS-310 (Aug 8, 2006)

Butch(OH),

dont use the fan only, unless you dont have a back up heat source. When wirring it the "right" way you will have a back up heat souce so when you for get to put wood in it your gas will turn on and heat the house and the wood stove will not freeze.
Jack


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 8, 2006)

B walker, What brand furnace do you have and is it forced draft or natural?


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## MS-310 (Aug 8, 2006)

bwalker said:


> MS-310, You have a link for the micro flex pipe?
> Log store stuff is a ripoff IMO.


 

http://www.microflex.be/en/products/index.html

I can sell it to you for $10.50 per foot, Or where is it you live by in MI. I live near charlotte MI.


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## MS-310 (Aug 8, 2006)

Just got in some more Timber wolf stoves In
3500sqft model-$3790
5000sqft model-$4390
7000sqft model-$5290

Non forced air draft, mild steel, 20x20 door, 10 year warnty, no grates to burn out very nice stoves. 

Any ???? PM me

Jack


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## bwalker (Aug 8, 2006)

I have a Heatmore and it has a forced air draft.


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 8, 2006)

Would you do a forced draft again, and what do you burn mostly?
Thanks Brian


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## bwalker (Aug 8, 2006)

Any wood boiler worth its salt will have a forced draft. When I bought mine the only ones without a forced draft were low end models.
I burn anything I can get my hands on, but the last few years its been mostly green maple and semi seasoned oak. Early in the year before it gets cold I burn hemlock, aspen, tammarac and poplar.


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## Fish4Brains (Aug 8, 2006)

Just checking, sounds like you have some expirence and was curios what your thoughts were. Thanks


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## MS-310 (Aug 8, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Any wood boiler worth its salt will have a forced draft. When I bought mine the only ones without a forced draft were low end models.
> I burn anything I can get my hands on, but the last few years its been mostly green maple and semi seasoned oak. Early in the year before it gets cold I burn hemlock, aspen, tammarac and poplar.




Forced air,
Im going to try to find some hard facts on this but I really dont think its the best thing, works well though. Central boiler is the largerst out door wood stove dealer in the world, they dont have forced draft... just saying.


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## hydro2 (Aug 14, 2006)

I have a Hardy and heat two houses with it. Going on the fourth season. Does not use that much wood.


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## MS-310 (Aug 14, 2006)

By father in law has a hardy, loves it to death, I dont like it to much but o well


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 14, 2006)

*Progress*

We got our boiler set over the weekend. Set it up on a couple block caps so as to get loading height to save my old back. Under the stove is the conduit we used for the pex tubing that came highly recommended by our dealer. Can't remember the name now but can get it if anyone is interested.

<IMG SRC=http://tinypic.com/24mxj01.jpg>


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## MS-310 (Aug 14, 2006)

Looks sweet butch,


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## Pcoz88 (Aug 15, 2006)

*So how long will an outdoor boiler last in years????*

outdoor boilers are a great idea but the intial cost is way to much and from the sellers of the boilers make it sound like they wouldn't last more then 20 to 25 years.:bang: For all that money it better last at least 50 yrs.


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## bwalker (Aug 15, 2006)

[QUOTEoutdoor boilers are a great idea but the intial cost is way to much and from the sellers of the boilers make it sound like they wouldn't last more then 20 to 25 years. For all that money it better last at least 50 yrs][/QUOTE]
A $650 dollar a month propane bill will change your mind as to the economics of a wood boiler. Of course living in a warmer climate like Ohio you might never see the savings I do.
As for longitivety. There are alot of brands on the market that are not worth a damn. You really need to do you research on which brands are high in quality before you pull the trigger on your checkbook.


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## MS-310 (Aug 15, 2006)

It all has to do how you take care of the unit, most units will last you long time. You could have a small TIMBER WOLF with about ever thing you will need for say +or- $5000, it dont take much to pay for itself when you got high heating bills.
JAck


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## bwalker (Aug 15, 2006)

When I bought my Heatmor a few years back it was around $5k less pipe and circ pumps. My unit is not the smallest one they make.


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## MS-310 (Aug 15, 2006)

bwalker said:


> When I bought my Heatmor a few years back it was around $5k less pipe and circ pumps. My unit is not the smallest one they make.




The price on freaking steel made that 5k stove turn in to a 6k stove or so,
, did you get the 200 CSS. I just worked on a 200 css, looks good to me.(ps heat does transment downwords I think it would have been better if the water jacket went all away around but they know more then me.)
The timberwolf 3500sqft comes with a pump for $3790 +parts (line and so on)
a little bigger then the 100css heatmore, witch runs about $4800. 
Jack


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 15, 2006)

Pcoz88 said:


> outdoor boilers are a great idea but the intial cost is way to much and from the sellers of the boilers make it sound like they wouldn't last more then 20 to 25 years.:bang: For all that money it better last at least 50 yrs.



You are correct in that they must last a while but 50 years is stretching it, LOL.
My gas bill for calender year 2005 was $2900 and last year was real mild here. My hot water is gas also. I will have the better part of 7K in the Woodmaster by the time it runs and heats my house and domestic water but figure to have a zippo gas bill except for a few months in the summer for water. It will take a few bucks to run the stove and a few parts. The saws cost some and so does diesel to haul wood from the farm. Id say Ill be hard pressed to spend 1K a year to do all of that, what do you think? I figure to be at break even by the end of year 3.


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## Pcoz88 (Aug 15, 2006)

Its a good idea but it should last alot longer then they do.650$ a month WOW.Thats moere then 300 gal. of propane a month at prices now.I heat our 2000 SF log home with a woodstock soapstone stove.


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## Hiwayherbie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Have Empyre*

New to the forum. I installed an Empyre model 250 last winter and love it. Previous year cost over $2000 in propane to heat house. This year should not cost me a dime with the furnace. Heats my hot water also.


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## ghitch75 (Aug 16, 2006)

Butch(OH) said:


> You are correct in that they must last a while but 50 years is stretching it, LOL.
> My gas bill for calender year 2005 was $2900 and last year was real mild here. My hot water is gas also. I will have the better part of 7K in the Woodmaster by the time it runs and heats my house and domestic water but figure to have a zippo gas bill except for a few months in the summer for water. It will take a few bucks to run the stove and a few parts. The saws cost some and so does diesel to haul wood from the farm. Id say Ill be hard pressed to spend 1K a year to do all of that, what do you think? I figure to be at break even by the end of year 3.



if your system is setup right you can run it year round to heat your water and won't interfear with your A/C...mine is running as i type..i save 45 buc's a month just in hot water..only have to stoke it every 5 to 6 days


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 16, 2006)

ghitch75 said:


> if your system is setup right you can run it year round to heat your water and won't interfear with your A/C...mine is running as i type..i save 45 buc's a month just in hot water..only have to stoke it every 5 to 6 days



You may not believe this but my summer time gas bills are around $100 (natural gas) Furnace has no pilot and the water heater is only about 5 years old and hi-ef. Wife is clean freak and have 3 kids at home, hot water runs a lot. I have the diagrams for shunting the hot water away from the heat exchanger for summer A/C use, I just didn't figure that having the Woodmaster running was worth saving a few hundred for June through August? Maybe should adjust my thinking.


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## ghitch75 (Aug 16, 2006)

mine is electric and just me and my girlfreind...i have some custmers that have gas and they just pay like 15 buc's a month to keep the meter there...sounds like you go through the hot water with 3 kids..could save you big buc's running it in the summer months


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## MS-310 (Aug 16, 2006)

If you use a lot of hot water in the summer, its the best way to go. Less then 250 bucks you can put a side arm on and a mixing valve and heat your water all year around, plus a a couple of valves and some fittings on top of the hot water heater. Glitch as I type also my hot water is being heat plus a soon to be hooked up hot tube, cant wait.
Jack


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## bassman (Aug 17, 2006)

cozeburn 250 with blower damper and love it and hate it.

use good wood ... first year all my wood was green and i had to fill it every 4 or 5 hours.
alot of kinda hidden up front install costs like pex line and i mean the stuff you can lay in the ground .
then you should run glycol so if the fire goes out it wont freeze.
then you have to keep a fire burning all the time and that can suck as just crankin the heat in the past was easy.

BUT the cash you save is better spent on retirement and vegas.

second year for me and this year i have seasoned wood coming.

shayne


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## ghitch75 (Aug 17, 2006)

don't much care for the side arm hook up...not to safe having 180 degree water in the water heater seen mixing valve hang to the hot side...melt the skin off your fingers(specailly with kids in the house)......higher than 250 buc's but you have control over the temp....little in floor heat job water heater is on the right

btw MS-310 i'm GHITCH75 not GLITCH75


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## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> cozeburn 250 with blower damper and love it and hate it.
> 
> use good wood ... first year all my wood was green and i had to fill it every 4 or 5 hours.
> alot of kinda hidden up front install costs like pex line and i mean the stuff you can lay in the ground .
> ...


 Something is wrong if your only getting 4-5 hours with green wood. When I burn green wood in mine I fill it about every twelve or so and it would actually last longer than that as there is always wood left when I refill it. With dry wood I find that if I pack it too the gills it will last about 24 hours depending on the outside temp.


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## MS-310 (Aug 17, 2006)

ghitch75 said:


> don't much care for the side arm hook up...not to safe having 180 degree water in the water heater seen mixing valve hang to the hot side...melt the skin off your fingers(specially with kids in the house)......higher than 250 buc's but you have control over the temp....little in floor heat job water heater is on the right
> 
> btw MS-310 i'm GHITCH75 not GLITCH75



Wow some one is spending alot of money......
Mixing valves are pretty sure thing, you can buy cheap ones that are not UL listed and then you mite have a problem. Side arm I think is the best bet, lots more hot water. 
Ghitch are you HVAC (pressurized system) lic. installer?????
Or do you not have to be in Indiana


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## ghitch75 (Aug 17, 2006)

high pressure boiler cert.150 pound 1,000kw(hp)....it's just a 12 pound system..as far as the mixing vavle goes down here the water is so hard it makes them stick(don't mater if it's UL or not) and they stick to the hot side and you get 180(or what ever the wood boiler is set at) out of the tap..repaired or replaced 100's of them in schools,nursing homes,ect...worked as a union pipe fitter for 15 years local 136....


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## MS-310 (Aug 17, 2006)

ghitch75 said:


> high pressure boiler cert.150 pound 1,000kw(hp)....it's just a 12 pound system..as far as the mixing vavle goes down here the water is so hard it makes them stick(don't mater if it's UL or not) and they stick to the hot side and you get 180(or what ever the wood boiler is set at) out of the tap..repaired or replaced 100's of them in schools,nursing homes,ect...worked as a union pipe fitter for 15 years local 136....



Thats so werid I have been around this snice I was a newborn(didnt know anything) My dad was and still is a pipe fitter/boilermaker and i have been putting mixing valves in for a good 8 years mysle fand never had a problem. I am working on my boilermaker cert. Stamp R. Its hard but I think it will pay off.
Jack.
How do you do your hotwater heater kits?????


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## bassman (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Something is wrong if your only getting 4-5 hours with green wood. When I burn green wood in mine I fill it about every twelve or so and it would actually last longer than that as there is always wood left when I refill it. With dry wood I find that if I pack it too the gills it will last about 24 hours depending on the outside temp.



It was heating a greenhouse only last year .
so at night it would call for heat and never keep up with green wood .
I was told that half the heat from the wood was being used to dry the green wood then heat the water.
I was able to get a half ton truckload of dry wood the same as my green stuff and it would hit 180 on the boiler and stay there for about an hour then fire for 10 and off again.
the green stuff would maybe hit 165 and the blower ran till the sun came out to help.
it also sounded like frying bacon when you opened the door.
so this year its dry wood or no wood.

shayne


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## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

I have found that after the first time the forced air draft kicks on that wood is dry. Even with the greenest oak and cottonwood itwill only take a 30-45 minutes of forced draft before all the moisture is gone. As you say, you can hear it sizzle and see the water run out. My stove will run at what ever water temp I set it at. Regardless of wood type or outside temp.


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## sloth9669 (Aug 18, 2006)

*question*

You seem to know alot about the out door setups. Just wondering how much smoke is producced and how you find out if it is legal in your town ?


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 18, 2006)

sloth9669 said:


> You seem to know alot about the out door setups. Just wondering how much smoke is producced and how you find out if it is legal in your town ?



I did not have such things to worry about here but if I did I would go to the Township (I believe "Town" in your part of the world) zoning board and ask if there were any regulations. How much smoke? that's entirely relative. I have never seen one smoke as seen on the government site pics that are used to promote regulations. As a matter of fact even though I live within a mile of 5 of them I never even considered smoke until I read about it on the Internet. Obviously there is some smoke or there would be no regulations but I suspect most are due to people burning crap other than firewood or people in row houses owning one. Now consider that this opinion comes from an area where people (mostly) consider our freedoms to be of high value. In an area where letting a TacoBell induced fart could land a person in jail with the blessings of the entire community a person would likely say, "the damned things smoke a lot".


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 18, 2006)

MS-310 said:


> Thats so werid I have been around this snice I was a newborn(didnt know anything) My dad was and still is a pipe fitter/boilermaker and i have been putting mixing valves in for a good 8 years mysle fand never had a problem. I am working on my boilermaker cert. Stamp R. Its hard but I think it will pay off.
> Jack.
> How do you do your hotwater heater kits?????



My manuals only show a simple cold water by pass with a hand valve to blend some cold water into the hot flow but a tempering valve sounds like a better deal. Could one of you experts check this link and see if one of these inexpensive tempering valves from Grainger will do the job for me? Thanks

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml

Rats, link doesnt work


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## Butch(OH) (Aug 18, 2006)

*sorry*

Anyway Grainger has a list of inexpensive tempering valves, could one of you recomend a part number? thanks.


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## Digging (Sep 3, 2006)

MS-310 said:


> http://www.microflex.be/en/products/index.html
> 
> I can sell it to you for $10.50 per foot, Or where is it you live by in MI. I live near charlotte MI.



I was wondering, since you said there is polyurethane foam inside, if the outside were to get a split in it and if the foam were to become saturated the insulating factor would be lost.

Is the outside durable enough to not allow a crack or split in it?

--------------

Also if anyone is familar with the styrofoam that encloses the piping (specifically designed for this) if there has been any kind of recall? 

This is the third time we are digging up and reinsulating our lines. The last time we used the styrofoam, but noticed heat loss (someone else also mentioned this) and the grass growing faster there in the spring.

We dug it up today to find out what the problem was, and it turns out the styrofoam is really heavy as if it is waterlogged (but not dripping). So if anyone else is using this product and you are noticing the same thing, it would be wise to consider inspecting it.


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## MS-310 (Sep 4, 2006)

The Micro flex has PEX foam as the insulation, I have had a chunk of this foam in a bucket of water for about a month and have not seen it even get more then a gram when i weight it. The out side of this microflex is like a coragated pipe (very strong). If you need some more help just ask.
Jack


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## Digging (Sep 29, 2006)

MS-310 said:


> The Micro flex has PEX foam as the insulation, I have had a chunk of this foam in a bucket of water for about a month and have not seen it even get more then a gram when i weight it. The out side of this microflex is like a coragated pipe (very strong). If you need some more help just ask.
> Jack



Thank you for your reply. I have been doing some extensive research and should I need further assistance, I'll be sure to ask.

Thanks again.


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## windthrown (Oct 1, 2006)

*Central Boiler 4436...*

Installed last year and we are very happy with it. Heating hot water and house with it. Plumbed into 1: pre-existing solar pre-heated hot water heater with a flat plate HX (using convection loop); 2: pre-existing pressurized hydronic floor heating loop with a flat plate HX (with Taco pump) and mixing valve to keep the floor temp at 100 degrees F. Used about 100 feet of PEX each way. I designed a PEX burial/outside insulated waterproof section using Pex, pipe insulation and 4 inch drain pipe. I sleeved the PEX with ten foot sections of foam and then stuffed it all into 4 inch corrigated drain pipe to keep it water-tight. It works great. 

More than enough capacity for our needs. I keep the boiler temp set to 165 degrees F., mainly as the hydronic floor loop temp. only needs to be 100 degrees F. We have about 2400 sq ft of house and a 50 gallon hot water heater. The house is 5 yeard old and well insulated. But it has a lot of windows, and a lot of vaulted ceiling areas. 15 degrees F was the low the last 3 years, nothing compared to northeast or upper midwest, but cold for us!  We burned 4+ (real) cords last year, but a lot of that was green, wet, rotten and light wood (lot of willow, cottonwood and grand fir). This year I have 5 cords (10 ricks, or face cords) of wood stored and dry (mostly medium density red alder and Doug fir). So we should have no problems heating this place this winter. 

We save $200 a month in electric bills in fall/winter. The unit will pay for itself in 6 years of use. Less if electric rates go up more. We have gobs of free wood here on our 105 acres in eth heart of Oregon timber country. Mixed species; Doug and grand fir, red cedar, bigleaf and boxelder maple, black and white oak, willow, cottonwood, apple, plum, walnut, pear, hazlenut, red alder.. it all burns! 

Good rapport with the CB dealer and factory. A few small things failed and were replaced this summer under warantee, no down time last year becasue of them though. A damper door mount warped and the LED display did not read out right. Now fixed. No rust. Simple to manage once installed. Not that much smoke. Far less than we expected. Standard steel. Natural venting damper (no forced air fan).


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## Ants (Feb 8, 2007)

MS-310 said:


> Who all has an outdoor wood stove (or wants one) and what type do you have? Do you like it? Do you think it eats more wood? I just would like to know. I have been doing wood stoves for about 6 years and been around them for a long time. I love other people idea's on them.
> Thanks Jack
> mine is a home built
> and have a central boiler and timber wolf that I play with...



Hello I have purchased a brand new outdoor wood furnace. It is rated at 4,000 square foot heating capacity. I am heating a 2,200 sq ft house 35 feet from the furnace, And a 700 sq ft house 50 ft from the furnace. I am having trouble keeping the water hot enough to heat the 2,200 sq ft house. The one further away is fine. It has a forced air fan to help with the burn. But the fan seems to stay on all the time in cold weather. I have checked the thermostat, and its seems to be ok. When its below 20 it just can't keep up. It uses a lot of wood and the main house stays cold. Chimney has been so hot it caught the insulation on the top of the burner on fire. We have been using a mix of wood. From all seasoned to all green and everything in between and nothing works. Any help or ideas would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.


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## bwalker (Feb 8, 2007)

Are your pipes insulated? What type of heat exchangers are you using? Whats your boilers high temp set at?

Mine is over 100 feet form my house and it works just fine.


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## hydro2 (Feb 8, 2007)

I heat two homes and one is 180 feet from the heater. We just came off a some sub-zero temps in the northeast and mine kept up fine heating two home. I have a 180 btu Hardy. There must be something wrong. Are you sure you have the correct amount (enough) water in it?


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## hydro2 (Feb 8, 2007)

hydro2 said:


> I heat two homes and one is 180 feet from the heater. We just came off a some sub-zero temps in the northeast and mine kept up fine heating two homes. One is a 2200 sq feet and the other is 1500I have a 180 btu Hardy. There must be something wrong. Are you sure you have the correct amount (enough) water in it?


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## Lagrue (Feb 12, 2007)

I have a Taylor 750. I am heating 3500 sq ft. maybe a little more. The house is over 100yrs old, Not the best insulated and has some cheap windows. I have been working on that. Overall I am very satisfied. I have 3 diff exchangers regulated by 3 diff thermostats. The house is zoned and very comfortable. Much more so than my old system. I replaced duck work and everthing. I am obvioulsy loosing some heat from the lines coming it. We got about an inch of snow a couple weeks ago, It melted the snow above the lines. the are only about 2 ft deep. 

This is the 2nd yr with the stove. I have been very satisfied with it. I was averaging about 1400 gal of propane/yr, heating house and water. I but in a 60 gal marathon water heater and plumbed the taylor into it. I really dont have a good handle on how much wood I am buring. I have been burning dump truck loads of 6x8" blocks of oak from a pallet mill. 1 load is supposed to be the equiv of 7 face cords? for 120 bucks a load, he has recently went up to 160. I have benn buring about 3 loads of that. It seems to burn up pretty quick. Still a whole lot cheaper, than what I was doing, much more comfortable too. I am going to start cutting my own wood.


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## Sprig (Feb 12, 2007)

" I replaced duck work and everything."


Don't EVER let ducks work with power tools, their work is shoddy and not all thats its quacked up ta be!


 



Sorry, I couldn't resist..................*hangs head*




Serge


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## jeff2173 (Jul 31, 2007)

I got a Hardy H4 just wanting to know is it best to run the pump all the time or let it kick on and off as it calls for heat?


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## MS-310 (Aug 1, 2007)

Jeff,

Let it run all the time you are using the woodstove to heat....


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## thois (Aug 3, 2007)

*Hot Water Heat Exchanger Question*

Hi,
We have had an outdoor wood furnace (Central Boiler) for nearly 2 years and everything has been great until recently. The problem is that we are not getting any hot water out of our water heater. We had plenty of hot water until a couple of weeks ago when the water would be hot but only last a few minutes. Now the last couple of days it barely gets warm and only lasts for seconds. The pipes of the heat exchanger (shell-and-tube water-to-water) are hot and we checked our dip tube in the water heater for damage...it was fine but we replaced it anyway. Does anyone have any ideas as to what the problem might be? 
Thanks in advance.
T Hois


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## ktm rider (Aug 3, 2007)

thois said:


> Hi,
> We have had an outdoor wood furnace (Central Boiler) for nearly 2 years and everything has been great until recently. The problem is that we are not getting any hot water out of our water heater. We had plenty of hot water until a couple of weeks ago when the water would be hot but only last a few minutes. Now the last couple of days it barely gets warm and only lasts for seconds. The pipes of the heat exchanger (shell-and-tube water-to-water) are hot and we checked our dip tube in the water heater for damage...it was fine but we replaced it anyway. Does anyone have any ideas as to what the problem might be?
> Thanks in advance.
> T Hois



Might want to start a new post for your question. You will get more interest. This post is pretty old.


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