# Show us your stumps!



## EchoRomeoCharlie

Stumps you're proud of, stumps you're not so proud of, post them up! We can learn a lot from them. Tell the story if you wish.

I'll start with one I'm proud of. This was a moderate/heavy leaner over power lines. I was really close to telling them to get someone with a bucket, but decided to fall it. Natural lay was directly into the power lines and the tips of the branches were over the 4 lines by about 5 or so feet. I set a line opposite the lean and tensioned up to take a bit of weight off of it. Because I had to fall it further than 90º to clear the lines I set a pull rope in it about 3/4 the way up. Set a block with a loopie on a sturdy tree and hooked the end to my truck. I had a window of about 30' to put the tree before it got into some trees we didn't want to bust up. Big area for a straight tree...looks really tiny with a big ol lean lol.

Made an open face cut to keep it on the stump as long as possible, made the back cut to a thick hinge, set a wedge, and nibbled while the driver kept steady pressure on it. She went down perfectly no drama.


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## Ck0461

The rot had me puckering so I left more hing than I thought I needed, and slammed the wedges home. It did what I wanted it to do, so I’ll take it.


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## weimedog




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## weimedog

Typical Of The Ash harvest 10 years back.... a lesson in "bore" cutting to minimize the tear out


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## EchoRomeoCharlie

This was just this last weekend. Large hard maple that was splitting down the trunk between two co-dominant stems. The neighbor had already put a chain between the two to try and keep the one side from breaking off and hitting his pole barn. Unfortunate that this tree was splitting like this, beautiful tree and could have stayed if it wasn't for it threatening the pole barn. 

Nice to have that chain already placed as it gave me a good area to pull from that locked both stems together. Allowed me to throw ball instead of climbing it which saved the client some money.

Tree was back weighted and about 32" across even at the hinge, so the face cut was a bit more difficult. I don't run into too many trees where I have to cut from both sides to put in the face cut with a 28" bar. I put in the back cut on the low side of the tree, set the hinge where I wanted it and sunk two wedges over there. Cut from the high side and let him pull it over with the tractor. The tree was back weighted, not a ton, but on these maples, the trunk is so much of the weight, it would have taken a bunch of wedge banging to get it to go. I had two wedges sunk completely before I told him to roll with it, and it still took a decent pull to get it over.


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## weimedog




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## weimedog




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## weimedog




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## AKTrailDog

New to the site, been a casual viewer for years always looking for little tricks of the trade, advice etc etc. Came across this thread and I'm very excited to see this. Showing the stump shot and explaining the assessment of the tree is awesome to see. Some nice looking cuts here. A lot of times I view threads and/or youtube videos of folks teaching/preaching their ways without proper ppe or techniques which make me cringe at times and wonder how more people don't get hurt with these powerful tools. Good stuff


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## AKTrailDog

Tree isn't big enough to put the saw on it for comparison, but this was a 10" spruce with heavy canopy lean towards my chicken coop and shed. When the wind blew, thought it was going to rip everything apart if it fell. Small Humboldt face cut and finished it with a boring back cut. Not a lot of large trees where I'm at, lucky if I get to cut > 20", haha


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## KarlD

No hinge to show on this one


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## EchoRomeoCharlie

I don't have a good stump pic of this one, but this was a hell of a job. No good access so all the limbs had to be drug to the street. You can see the lean over the house, and there wasn't room to fall it into the yard even though I think it would have went with wedges without too much trouble. I decided to limb it up, top it and flop it. 






She was pretty wide...






Get the length down so it would land in the yard and not half in the river. Notice my great groundies going to work...






And here we are on the ground. No fancy stuff here, just a normal face/back cut and wedge her over.


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## weimedog




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## SS396driver

Dont take pictures of stumps but this one I did . Had to roll it 180° to clear two others . Worked out well I'm milling this one next week or two


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## Brufab

24" bar on the echo.


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## weimedog




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## Brufab

Wow that winch remote works that far??? Dang that's awesome!


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## EchoRomeoCharlie

weimedog said:


>



Thanks for posting! I've been watching your videos for quite a while. Didn't realize you were a member here till now.


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## CUCV

Tell us about using the shrub as a redirect!?!



EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> I don't have a good stump pic of this one, but this was a hell of a job. No good access so all the limbs had to be drug to the street. You can see the lean over the house, and there wasn't room to fall it into the yard even though I think it would have went with wedges without too much trouble. I decided to limb it up, top it and flop it.
> 
> 
> 
> She was pretty wide...
> 
> 
> 
> Get the length down so it would land in the yard and not half in the river. Notice my great groundies going to work...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we are on the ground. No fancy stuff here, just a normal face/back cut and wedge her over.


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## ElevatorGuy

Sweet gum was leaning back into the woods. Rigged with a come along and pulled it some. I had planned to back cut a little and put a little more on the come along but I didn’t need to. Went where it needed to and no the tractor wasn’t there when it came down.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie

CUCV said:


> Tell us about using the shrub as a redirect!?!


lol

Obviously not an ideal situation, but we didn't need much, honestly we probably didn't need anything. I was confident I could get it to go with a wedge, however, if something went wrong, an old ladies house built in the 1920's was going to be significantly damaged. We didn't have anything else on her property to redirect from and with the river right there, we couldn't straight line it without being in the danger zone. The picture makes it look like there's more room, but it doesn't feel that big when you're standing there. I followed it with a wedge as they pulled the top over in case anything happened with the shrub. It's a pretty stout shrub though.


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## CUCV

I Love the creativity! The shrub isn't going anywhere even 2:1 under human power. A tag line always feels better than a wedge in tight situations.




EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> lol
> 
> Obviously not an ideal situation, but we didn't need much, honestly we probably didn't need anything. I was confident I could get it to go with a wedge, however, if something went wrong, an old ladies house built in the 1920's was going to be significantly damaged. We didn't have anything else on her property to redirect from and with the river right there, we couldn't straight line it without being in the danger zone. The picture makes it look like there's more room, but it doesn't feel that big when you're standing there. I followed it with a wedge as they pulled the top over in case anything happened with the shrub. It's a pretty stout shrub though.


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## Rooted




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## woodfarmer

A few big Ash from last spring
, hollow log 36” and the solid one was 40”


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## Rooted




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## weimedog

Last week:



Yesterday:


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## Ebarry77

Here's a couple of stumps the three headed one I had to split in three pieces the base was 60 inches across.


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## singinwoodwackr




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## Someclown




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## ROME K/G

Splitting out 6' Bur Oak Stump. 
Unloading log.


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## 3000 FPS

Cut this spruce last summer up in the mountains. left the back cut a little high but still went where I wanted with no surprises.


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## Kodiak Kid

38" Sitka Spruce.


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## Kodiak Kid

36" Sitka Spruce snag


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## Kodiak Kid

42" OG Sitka Spruce snag



24" Spruce snag fell with a swing cut using a soft Dutchman


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## Kodiak Kid

We won't talk about what happened here! However, let's just say "The Barber" almost gave me a shave with my cut!


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## EchoRomeoCharlie

Man, I've got to get back into taking pics of my stumps to post here...I've put quite a few on the ground lately but forget to get the phone out.


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## Kodiak Kid

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Man, I've got to get back into taking pics of my stumps to post here...I've put quite a few on the ground lately but forget to get the phone out.


I hear you! And that's a big 10-4. It's really cool to finally be an a forum with others that share the same interests this is only the second forum I've ever been on and so far so good. Most of the people here seem pretty dang nice and experienced! Lots of good info to be shared here in my opinion!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Kodiak Kid

This stump is on my property. A four foot OG Spruce that was actually still very much alive with 100% of it's crown when I cut it down . It was leaning towards my shop for years and I started noticing conks on it. I always knew it had some center rot, but when I did a boar test on the ol' dying brute. I started shaking from knowing how much was on the line if I screwed up and lost it on my shop. It was a very nerve wracking cut to say the least. But I got'er done without equipment or piecing. Just a normal felling job off the stump,!


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## NorthernMaverick

Pardon the duh looking selfie, it was cold, but it was a good day cutting aspen.  The cool looking basswood stump was after flush cutting the quad stump down. I'll get some more pics later, but these were some good ones I had on my phone. As for the bad shots, hangs, or the ones I've lost over backwards, we won't talk about those.  lol.


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## tankman

Here is a picture of my 36” pine that was about 108’ tall. Had to cut it down because pine Beatles killed it. Cut with a borrowed MS 440.


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## Kodiak Kid

Swung another Spruce snag today, and my ol' 660 with a chisel ground chain is Stihl throwing good size waste!


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## AKTrailDog

Wish we had bigger trees at times in these parts but......
Took some nice ones down yesterday but this one felt really good. Didn't want it to land in the parking area (more difficult clean up etc). Told my buddy I'd land it right next to the fire pit. He didn't think it could be done due to it's natural lean going into the parking area. Took it 120° off it's lean. Couple 10" stackable wedges did the trick no problem with a boring back cut. Free dinner from a friendly bet, ha!


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## Kodiak Kid

Seldom do I use a conventional face. Usually only when cutting whips and small snags.

The small stump in the background is a conventional face with a SD swing cut.




I had both of these snags safely on the ground in well under a minute.


Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Kodiak Kid

If any of you (me included!) Think your a bad ass at cut'n timber or just running a powersaw? Better think again! Because this chick could probably school 95% of us on this website! If not more than 95% of us! My hard hat is off to this lady!


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## pioneerguy600

Kodiak Kid said:


> If any of you (me included!) Think your a bad ass at cut'n timber or just running a powersaw? Better think again! Because this chick could probably school 95% of us on this website! If not more than 95% of us! My hard hat is off to this lady!
> 
> View attachment 994072


I may be wrong but I think she should have removed the wedge from the face cut before executing the back cut.She really appears to have done some logging and sawing beforehand.


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## Kodiak Kid

A 


pioneerguy600 said:


> I may be wrong but I think she should have removed the wedge from the face cut before executing the back cut.She really appears to have done some logging and sawing beforehand.


Funny you should mention. A lot of us went over this on the "Scrounging Firewood" thread.

Look closely. I garrante you. All the wood is completely out of that face cut!


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## pioneerguy600

pioneerguy600 said:


> I may be wrong but I think she should have removed the wedge from the face cut before executing the back cut.She really appears to have done some logging and sawing beforehand.


 I didn`t have my readers on and that part of the tree trunk that has the bark missing just where the face cut meets the corner all looked the same color and texture, my bad.


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## Kodiak Kid

pioneerguy600 said:


> I didn`t have my readers on and that part of the tree trunk that has the bark missing just where the face cut meets the corner all looked the same color and texture, my bad.


It's all good. I also thought the same thing when I first saw it! I had to take a closer look myself.I thought to myself  For someone who appears to be good with a saw? Dose she even know what the hells about to happen!  Some guys on the other thread just couldn't be convinced that the face was out of the cut!  took a bit of explaining and convincing . It's hard to tell without taking a real close look no doubt!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Kodiak Kid




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## weimedog

April....


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## Olebarncat25




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## Reesedlightning

Another victim of the 064. Used this opportunity to show my dad the advantage of the humboldt notch.


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## Kodiak Kid

Couple pics of two different . Three stage soft dutchman swing cut's.


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## Kodiak Kid

I split a piece of the front side of each step with my axe. For a better look at the concept of a multiple step swinging Dutchman. 
Just so you all know. The four wheeler nor the dog on the four wheeler were anywhere near this snag when I fell it. 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## oldfortyfive

What's the purpose of the multiple steps?


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## Kodiak Kid

oldfortyfive said:


> What's the purpose of the multiple steps?


The installation of the steps are sloppy on my behalf because a couple of them criss cross. The purpose is because the snag had a pretty good amount of lean both back and out. Also, the snag had sound holding wood, but was very dry and missing it's top. In turn, making it very light compared to when it was alive with its top Stihl in tact. The multiple steps help swing the light wood around better. It probably would have swung with fewer steps than what your seeing. However I doubt it would have swung with less than three. Then again if you're better at swinging timber than me. Maybe it would have.


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## fields_mj

Did this at the end of February in the back yard. Measures 5' at the hinge. Mid June now and still cleaning some of it up


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## Dodik

Is this considered a stump? 
First tree I climbed, got another 50 or so to go, luckily only have to climb half of them.


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## Maintenance supervisor

18" white oak 


30" Hickory, real holding strength. 
Both plunge cut.


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## VW Splitter

This is one I had to think about long and hard before cutting it. Probably one of the most dangerous trees I’ve stuck a saw in. A huge sycamore tree, heavy leaner, hollow and burnt after a fire in the area. 1/3 of the trunk was already gone. Was falling it just a little to the left of the lean. I really thought it would fall just as soon as I started sawing. Did a lot of sawing before it let go. Stump measured 54” x 11”. Good lord was looking after me.


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## VW Splitter

Not very tall, but the largest diameter tree I’ve ever cut. 71”


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## Billhook

VW Splitter said:


> This is one I had to think about long and hard before cutting it. Probably one of the most dangerous trees I’ve stuck a saw in. A huge sycamore tree, heavy leaner, hollow and burnt after a fire in the area. 1/3 of the trunk was already gone. Was falling it just a little to the left of the lean. I really thought it would fall just as soon as I started sawing. Did a lot of sawing before it let go. Stump measured 54” x 11”. Good lord was looking after me.


Reaction wood, tree develops this incredibly hard timber to compensate for its loss on the other side


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## Backyard Lumberjack




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## Kodiak Kid

74 inch Sitka Spruce with a bit of but swell. Around 100 foot tall and lack of decent scale. 



60+ inch Sitka Spruce. 80 to 90 foot and poor scale.

Sitka Spruce 50 plus inches. 100' with decent scale.

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Backyard Lumberjack

Kodiak Kid said:


> 74 inch Sitka Spruce with a bit of but swell. Around 100 foot tall and lack of decent scale. View attachment 1003311
> View attachment 1003307
> View attachment 1003305
> 
> 60+ inch Sitka Spruce. 80 to 90 foot and poor scale.View attachment 1003308
> 
> Sitka Spruce 50 plus inches. 100' with decent scale.View attachment 1003309
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


 AK pix!!! 

you _da man there_, KK!!!


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## Kodiak Kid

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> AK pix!!!
> 
> you _da man there_, KK!!!


Thanks bud!  Glad you like the pics! I posted some more AK pics this evening on "the scrounge"


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## Arbor1

Great views of your work. I don't see how some of the trees fell so precisely. This looks like a science, but also is viewed as an art.


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## Sierra_rider

My only recent falling pics, 36" dead doug fir. Before someone chides me for my deep undercut, the top was very sketchy and the tree was perfectly balanced w/no discernable lean. I used wedges, but really only to chase my back cut...the deep face was enough to get it to go over. The back cut wasn't exactly my finest work, but I had to double cut both cuts.


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## Section VIII

Fell two standing dead with only a few branches at the crown this morning.

First one was hollow from ~8" below the ground (three sections of the trunk were holding the tree up like a tripod) up to ~9' high. I didn't realize it was hollow as high as it was until after I felled it. Only thing that helped me was it was slightly leaning already in the direction I needed it to go which is good because I couldn't use wedges due to the rot.

The photos I attached were from the second tree (didn't think to take any photos at first because I had to get both trees down and bucked by 12:30 pm). ~23"-24" DBH.

Power line was ~24' behind the back cut. The shed and camper was too the left and flowers, shrubs, and fruit trees were to the right (homeowner wanted to keep them undamaged). There was nothing to use as a redirect. I cut it high since I was trying to avoid multiple nails, eye/circle bolts, and easily visible since it was close to the gravel driveway. That and I can't bend over as much as I used to. I dropped it pretty much where I wanted it so it didn't clip the front porch. Ended up being close though to the house. I cut too far into the hinge than I intended but it worked and the tree had a little rot on one side. Ended up using five wedges due to the back lean/canopy mostly in the opposite direction than I needed it to go. Canopy was mostly all rotted and shattered into several pieces when it hit the ground.

Used my 441 C-M. Got both trees bucked and stacked to split at a later date.


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## Pioneer

20" spruce leaning back toward the buildings. Roped and wedged with the wind in my favor. 





Big oak, 36x16". Two trees grew together to form one large one. Dry rot had it split and break off ten feet up. Cut the rest off at an angle, weird but it worked. Took us 3 afternoons to split the wood. Probably 2 cords from the one tree.


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## Kodiak Kid

Dooooe!!!


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## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> My only recent falling pics, 36" dead doug fir. Before someone chides me for my deep undercut, the top was very sketchy and the tree was perfectly balanced w/no discernable lean. I used wedges, but really only to chase my back cut...the deep face was enough to get it to go over. The back cut wasn't exactly my finest work, but I had to double cut both cuts.


Nice job man.
Plenty of reasons to make a deep or even what many would say is an excessively deep face, hard for me to know what's going on there. There was one on the first page of this thread iirc, that I would have made much deeper than the poster did, but that's based on me sitting here in my living room lol.


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## Kodiak Kid

5 foot old growth Sitka Spruce.


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## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> 5 foot old growth Sitka Spruce. View attachment 1021573


Looks good bro.
How often are you touching up your chains, theres so much crap on those things


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## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> Looks good bro.
> How often are you touching up your chains, theres so much crap on those things


Thanks a lot Brett! Much appreciated! 

Yeah all kinds of stuff grows on timber in an old growth forest. The trees themselves have micro environments on them! But the volcanic ash is the chains biggest enemy! Right now the ash isn't to bad where we're cut'n. On average I swap chains about every couple hours. Pretty much three chains a day. I haven't had to touch up with the square file yet this season. I've been strictly running ground semi skip. That'll all change once it gets colder and the wood and ash start to freeze!  I'll be touching up with a square file about every other tank starting late fall then eventually go to strictly a round file tune during the peek of winter. 
As of now. I grind anywhere from two to three chains each morning while having coffee and getting my morning arboristsite chat in with you guy's before I head into the woods fir work. 




Be safe out there bud!


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## Campbellcontractlogging

You want stumps I’ll give you stumps!


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## Campbellcontractlogging

Stumps away.


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## Campbellcontractlogging

Kodiak Kid said:


> Thanks a lot Brett! Much appreciated!
> 
> Yeah all kinds of stuff grows on timber in an old growth forest. The trees themselves have micro environments on them! But the volcanic ash is the chains biggest enemy! Right now the ash isn't to bad where we're cut'n. On average I swap chains about every couple hours. Pretty much three chains a day. I haven't had to touch up with the square file yet this season. I've been strictly running ground semi skip. That'll all change once it gets colder and the wood and ash start to freeze!  I'll be touching up with a square file about every other tank starting late fall then eventually go to strictly a round file tune during the peek of winter.
> As of now. I grind anywhere from two to three chains each morning while having coffee and getting my morning arboristsite chat in with you guy's before I head into the woods fir work.
> 
> View attachment 1021598
> 
> 
> Be safe out there bud!


Damn!


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## Kodiak Kid

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> You want stumps I’ll give you stumps!


LMAO! Nice work! 

Here's one for ya! 

With a plug cut, a couple relief cuts, ten pounds of tannerite, and the squeeze of a trigger. You can chair a four foot snag into a "Blown Throne"!


A chair fit for a king!


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## J D

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> You want stumps I’ll give you stumps!


Those stumps ain't right... the more you look the worse it gets


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## skeet88

Safety Inspector


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## Campbellcontractlogging

J D said:


> Those stumps ain't right... the more you look the worse it gets


Why’s that?


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## J D

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> Why’s that?


Face cuts ain't right (too big & too small), hinges/holding wood aint there! Barrels kicking back, hanging up & starting to barberchair.
Some of those look like the cut has just gone in & walked around the tree until it fell over


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## Campbellcontractlogging

J D said:


> Face cuts ain't right (too big & too small), hinges/holding wood aint there! Barrels kicking back, hanging up & starting to barberchair.
> Some of those look like the cut has just gone in & walked around the tree until it fell over


i would say 95% of those trees fell exactly where I wanted them to fall and if you read the post title every stump that you took a picture of good or bad. If I can I try not to cut a tree with a relief at all and if there’s a big one it needed to be that big I don’t use wedges only a saw carry as little as possible cut timber mostly on cliff edges I move fast cut and trim 40 to 60 trees and trim a day. also I get paid 48$ an hour to cut timber I’m very good at what I do multiple saw mill owners have told me that every saw log that comes across there scale looks great but you are the stump expert I guess I’m very happy with the work I do so meh.


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## Kodiak Kid

I


Campbellcontractlogging said:


> i would say 95% of those trees fell exactly where I wanted them to fall and if you read the post title every stump that you took a picture of good or bad. If I can I try not to cut a tree with a relief at all and if there’s a big one it needed to be that big I don’t use wedges only a saw carry as little as possible cut timber mostly on cliff edges I move fast cut and trim 40 to 60 trees and trim a day. also I get paid 48$ an hour to cut timber I’m very good at what I do multiple saw mill owners have told me that every saw log that comes across there scale looks great but you are the stump expert I guess I’m very happy with the work I do so meh.


I saw two hangers, one chair, one broke off the stump that you failed to swing, and some pretty sloppy hinges! Not to mention a bunch of whips you failed to drop or cripple just to leave bowed over and loaded by the limbs on your downed timber! I didn't see anything on steep ground in your pics! All the terrain looked flat as a pancake to me.  Maybe you should carry an axe and some wedges there Mr. Swing Cut!  


This is steep ground as I understand the definition.






Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## mbrick

J D said:


> Those stumps ain't right... the more you look the worse it gets


I thought it was just me. Was the holding wood already trimmed off for the photo??


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## J D

mbrick said:


> I thought it was just me. Was the holding wood already trimmed off for the photo??


I don't think so, the only tearout I see is either central (where the bar didn't reach) or on one side where the tree looks to have gone over before a cut was finished


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## Kodiak Kid

J D said:


> I don't think so, the only tearout I see is either in central (where the bar didn't reach) or on one side where the tree looks to have gone over before a cut was finished


I agree. Looks like a lot of stump pull in some strange places on the stumps to me.


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## singinwoodwackr

Section VIII said:


> Fell two standing dead with only a few branches at the crown this morning.
> 
> First one was hollow from ~8" below the ground (three sections of the trunk were holding the tree up like a tripod) up to ~9' high. I didn't realize it was hollow as high as it was until after I felled it. Only thing that helped me was it was slightly leaning already in the direction I needed it to go which is good because I couldn't use wedges due to the rot.
> 
> The photos I attached were from the second tree (didn't think to take any photos at first because I had to get both trees down and bucked by 12:30 pm). ~23"-24" DBH.
> 
> Power line was ~24' behind the back cut. The shed and camper was too the left and flowers, shrubs, and fruit trees were to the right (homeowner wanted to keep them undamaged). There was nothing to use as a redirect. I cut it high since I was trying to avoid multiple nails, eye/circle bolts, and easily visible since it was close to the gravel driveway. That and I can't bend over as much as I used to. I dropped it pretty much where I wanted it so it didn't clip the front porch. Ended up being close though to the house. I cut too far into the hinge than I intended but it worked and the tree had a little rot on one side. Ended up using five wedges due to the back lean/canopy mostly in the opposite direction than I needed it to go. Canopy was mostly all rotted and shattered into several pieces when it hit the ground.
> 
> Used my 441 C-M. Got both trees bucked and stacked to split at a later date.


Guttzy fell, well done. I probably would have cut it another 2’ higher for trailer clearance  but…you say there was a bunch of metal…oy .
how did you estimate the length? Looks like the top was damn close to the porch.


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## singinwoodwackr

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> You want stumps I’ll give you stumps!


Interesting…


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## J D

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> i would say 95% of those trees fell exactly where I wanted them to fall and if you read the post title every stump that you took a picture of good or bad. If I can I try not to cut a tree with a relief at all and if there’s a big one it needed to be that big I don’t use wedges only a saw carry as little as possible cut timber mostly on cliff edges I move fast cut and trim 40 to 60 trees and trim a day. also I get paid 48$ an hour to cut timber I’m very good at what I do multiple saw mill owners have told me that every saw log that comes across there scale looks great but you are the stump expert I guess I’m very happy with the work I do so meh.


I don't fall for a living, nor would I consider myself an expert however, I've had enough experience to know that if I need to I'll sacrifice a foot of log for the security of knowing exactly where the tree is going (within reason) every time... & if/when it doesn't go there I want to know why so it doesn't happen again.
If you're dropping 60 a day & 95% go "where you want them to" (which is probably where they were going anyway), that's 3 a day that don't! Personally I'd be happy to earn a little less & not have to worry about 2-3 chairs/kickbacks/hangers a day.
Every one that doesn't go rite raises the odds that you don't go home to you family at the end of the day


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## Kodiak Kid

I on the other hand do fall timber for a living. On an industrial scale. Never in my time in the woods have I produced or seen coworkers produce stumps that look like yours!


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## J D

This one looks to have cost you a bar (that had no business being there to get stuck in the first place), & you've had to make wedges, & it's hung up. A standard face cut & back cut would've put that over in the clear 20' to the right all day every day & maybe cost you 6" of a but log that wasn't that great in the first place.
Food for thought...


----------



## Sierra_rider

This thread has taken a turn for the interesting lol.


----------



## J D

HaHa... I've said my bit, not meaning to be a douche about it or anything, I'd just rather raise the issue in hope some constructive criticism & friendly advice leads to safer cutting for everyone


----------



## Sierra_rider

J D said:


> HaHa... I've said my bit, not meaning to be a douche about it or anything, I'd just rather raise the issue in hope some constructive criticism & friendly advice leads to safer cutting for everyone


This guy's proof that everyone can set an example...his is just a bad example lol.


----------



## trains

J D said:


> View attachment 1022049
> 
> This one looks to have cost you a bar (that had no business being there to get stuck in the first place), & you've had to make wedges, & it's hung up. A standard face cut & back cut would've put that over in the clear 20' to the right all day every day & maybe cost you 6" of a but log that wasn't that great in the first place.
> Food for thought...


Looked like 2 bars to me, is that a sprocket end on the lhs by the tip of the one we can see ?


----------



## mbrick

trains said:


> Looked like 2 bars to me, is that a sprocket end on the lhs by the tip of the one we can see ?


I contemplated if that was two bars or just a really good sprocket nose impression in the wood.


----------



## J D

Yeah, I decided that was just the impression of a stinking hot bar tip being run in pinched wood... even if that bar is still straight it's going to be toast


----------



## Brufab

J D said:


> View attachment 1022049
> 
> This one looks to have cost you a bar (that had no business being there to get stuck in the first place), & you've had to make wedges, & it's hung up. A standard face cut & back cut would've put that over in the clear 20' to the right all day every day & maybe cost you 6" of a but log that wasn't that great in the first place.
> Food for thought...


Got shark teeth coming out that sprocket tip i never seen sprocket teeth that big before.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

trains said:


> Looked like 2 bars to me, is that a sprocket end on the lhs by the tip of the one we can see ?


LMAO!  Definitely two bars! Im guessing there's a power head attached to the one with the tip barley showing , and probably smashed to piece's! 
Looks like the tree set back on him the first time. Then he took the head off and smashed his saw the second time trying to cut himself out!  Pro!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

J D said:


> Yeah, I decided that was just the impression of a stinking hot bar tip being run in pinched wood... even if that bar is still straight it's going to be toast


You can see burnt wood on the tip imprint from the chains abnormal friction from being pinched. The sproket teeth are abnormally large because the tip did over heat and the sproket blew out! Ha haaaaa ha! LMFAO!!  Oh man! It just keeps getting better and better!


----------



## Bill G

skeet88 said:


> Safety Inspector


Those darn goats cannot be contained. They are everywhere. It will not be long before they are the next feral animal, but they are tasty. I swear they can climb a tree at 60 degrees


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Suggested reading:

Professional Timber Falling, Doug Dent
To Fell A Tree, Jeff Jepson
Fundamentals of Tree Work, Jerry Beranek

just say’in…


----------



## Campbellcontractlogging

J D said:


> View attachment 1022049
> 
> This one looks to have cost you a bar (that had no business being there to get stuck in the first place), & you've had to make wedges, & it's hung up. A standard face cut & back cut would've put that over in the clear 20' to the right all day every day & maybe cost you 6" of a but log that wasn't that great in the first place.
> Food for thought...


That went bad for sure


----------



## Bill G

Well not much of a stump but these two pics have story to tell.


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## mbrick

If it was a beaver, it's not fit for this world...


----------



## Bill G

mbrick said:


> If it was a beaver, it's not fit for this world...


Twas not a beaver but that is a very good assumption. I had not thought of that.


----------



## skeet88

Grandkid trying out his new knife.


----------



## Section VIII

singinwoodwackr said:


> Guttzy fell, well done. I probably would have cut it another 2’ higher for trailer clearance  but…you say there was a bunch of metal…oy .
> how did you estimate the length? Looks like the top was damn close to the porch.



I took out most of the nails/screws I could see and cleared around the trunk as much as I could. I figured there would be more that I couldn't see. The homeowner was renting out the house and the tenants piled all kinds of crap around the tree.

I walked out and measured (guesstimated) from a 45 degree angle (taking my height into consideration), the height of the tree (I used to be a weather observer and got good with estimating the heights of bases of clouds). Yes, as stated in my post, the top ended up pretty close to the porch. When the top hit the ground, it shattered and sent pieces of branches flying. One piece (about a foot section) bounced off the gutter after hitting the ground just to the left (looking at the house) of the window. It didn't leave a dent in the gutter. I guess you could say I got lucky it didn't bust out the window....or damage the gutter.

I gave the homeowner a reminder that I was not a professional, licensed, certified, or insured prior to felling both trees. She had talked to a few of the other people I felled trees for and I guess they convinced her to trust me.

I always make sure the homeowners understand that I am not a professional. But that's also why I don't charge them anything (except a case of beer). I don't do jobs that I even slightly think would result in the homeowner suing me. Before I bought a house with a wood burning fireplace, I gave away each "truck load" of the split wood for a case of beer.


----------



## rwoods

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> That went bad for sure


Thanks for posting the pictures. Bars are replaceable. You aren't. I am going to comment on your pictures. These are general comments directed to no one in particular so please don't take this as a personal lecture or an attack/judgment of your skills. 

There are few absolutes beyond gravity in falling trees, but I would hazard to say that safe falling requires a proper hinge is as close to an absolute as it gets for trying to influence where and when a tree falls. Of course, for a hinge to work it must have room to open thus the need for a proper face cut. 

I could be mis-reading the stumps, but some show little to no hinge; maybe the faller was chasing the cut to limit fiber pull or the cuts were cleaned up post-falling, I don't know. Some appear as if the faller was relying on a "post" that he whittled down until the tree fell. Almost universally, a whittled post is not a proper hinge. I can't tell if a picture or two shows stump jumping, if so, expecting a tree of the size shown to create a safe hinge without a proper face cut is an accident waiting to happen though some may claim that their family have logged that way for generations.

Not everyone here (including me) is blessed to be able to make a living in the woods. However, I get time is money. I also get that an axe and wedges take time and energy. Nonetheless, fallers face enough hazards without taking unsafe shortcuts. Sooner or later, a hinge-less or improperly cut tree is going to bite someone - maybe the faller or maybe a spectator with misplaced faith in the faller.

Be safe and pay attention to what the other fallers have to say (if you hang around here and read long enough, you will be able to sort out who actually knows their stuff and who doesn't). Some may bust your chops or make you wish you never posted but good advice though painful beats getting oneself or another hurt or killed. Some may ridicule you for sport or self-exaltation - ignore their motives if you can and sort out whether their advice is sound.

Ron


----------



## Kodiak Kid

rwoods said:


> Thanks for posting the pictures. Bars are replaceable. You aren't. I am going to comment on your pictures. These are general comments directed to no one in particular so please don't take this as a personal lecture or an attack/judgment of your skills.
> 
> There are few absolutes beyond gravity in falling trees, but I would hazard to say that safe falling requires a proper hinge is as close to an absolute as it gets for trying to influence where and when a tree falls. Of course, for a hinge to work it must have room to open thus the need for a proper face cut.
> 
> I could be mis-reading the stumps, but some show little to no hinge; maybe the faller was chasing the cut to limit fiber pull or the cuts were cleaned up post-falling, I don't know. Some appear as if the faller was relying on a "post" that he whittled down until the tree fell. Almost universally, a whittled post is not a proper hinge. I can't tell if a picture or two shows stump jumping, if so, expecting a tree of the size shown to create a safe hinge without a proper face cut is an accident waiting to happen though some may claim that their family have logged that way for generations.
> 
> Not everyone here (including me) is blessed to be able to make a living in the woods. However, I get time is money. I also get that an axe and wedges take time and energy. Nonetheless, fallers face enough hazards without taking unsafe shortcuts. Sooner or later, a hinge-less or improperly cut tree is going to bite someone - maybe the faller or maybe a spectator with misplaced faith in the faller.
> 
> Be safe and pay attention to what the other fallers have to say (if you hang around here and read long enough, you will be able to sort out who actually knows their stuff and who doesn't). Some may bust your chops or make you wish you never posted but good advice though painful beats getting oneself or another hurt or killed. Some may ridicule you for sport or self-exaltation - ignore their motives if you can and sort out whether their advice is sound.
> 
> Ron


IMOP, "that is sound advice" and well said! Well said indeed! 

Cut safe, stay sharp and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

I would have to say that a proper hinge across the entire stump and a clean face is most definitely key to the safest way to get a tree to commit into a safe fall. Also, on timber leaning back. Wedges followed behind you back cut is the absolute safest way to fell timber leaning back or leaning out. Setting up more than one tree at a time by crippling with post/strap cuts or even just a set wedge and driving them over or swinging timber with a Dutchman are all unnecessary risks. Although I myself take these risks all based on experience, they are unnecessary risks none the less and should not be executed unless absolutely necessary and one has been properly trained and educated on the fundamentals and hazards of these professional techniques! 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Bill G

Bill G said:


> Well not much of a stump but these two pics have story to tell.


These two pictures in post #106 represent many things..living life to the fullest, never giving up, staying sharp, the list could go on.

I have farmed a small piece of ground since about 1985 or 86. My farm adjoins it at one corner. The man that owns it was an engineer for Alcoa. It runs from the top of the Mississippi River bluff to the bottom and is heavily wooded. He bought it just to have a place to come out and shoot on the weekends as he still lived up in the cities. We always figured when he retired he would build a house out here. Well as luck would have it when he was about to retire he ended up buying a house near it very cheap and never built. About 15 years ago tragedy struck as one morning he awoke and rolled over in bed to find his wife had passed away. I know it was devastating.

Now when some envision a farm field they think of flat and square. This field has no shape. Those of you familiar with farming or simple area calculations will understand this. The field is only 12.4 acres and it is just a bit over 1 mile around the outer edge. That should give you an indication of shape. After end rows in some places one pass produces point rows thus best suited for seeded crops. It has hills valleys and ditches all around. Well over the years the field really started getting a lot of brush growth around the edges. There was a lot of mult-flora rose and small trees. My father took our dozer around it several times and then my brother did again about 10 years ago. It had been 10 years since it had been dozed around and even then all my brother did was a cursory job just taking out the briars. On January 1st of this year I commenced to getting the edges of that field cleaned correctly. I cut 7 days a week and burned a huge amount of tires with the brush. Of course along the way I cut a lot of firewood. When spring came I had about 2/3 done but it was the worst 2/3 at least. I sprayed all the stumps with Tordon so hopefully they will not be back. This summer I put hundreds of gallons of Glyphosate and 2-4-D around it and every night I can take my doogie for a one mile ride around it. 

Now the whole time I worked on it I never saw the owner. I am not an obit watcher and I began to wonder if the sweet elderly man was still around. I had not seen him in years and last talked with him on the phone about 5 years ago. He just mails me the rental agreement each year and I mail a check back. I pay at the beginning of the year so the last time I sent a check was January of 2022. My neighbor that adjoins the place and I talk regularly and he had not seen the owner in years either.

Well one day last week I had just gotten home from work and sat down at the computer before going out to start my work at home . My phone rang and it was my neighbor at the end of the road which adjoins the land. He said "Bill there is a white Ford truck parked in your bean field and it has been there quite awhile. The man's arm is hanging out the window and it has not moved in a long time, do you know who it is?" It surprised me a bit and I said "I think that might be Bill's (his name is Bill also) he used to have a truck like that but I have not seen it in years. I told my neighbor I would come down.

I knew when I headed down this was going to be an adventure. See my neighbor is a retired officer and avid gun owner. He works in a local gun store during the day and carries two sidearms at all times. When I got there he had one in his right hand in his pocket and another on the left. We approached slowly and the mans arm never moved. At this point my heart sank as I really started to believe he had passed away. We got close enough you could see through the side mirror that it was in fact the landowner but he was slumped over and not moving. We stood looking at him for a bit and my neighbor said well his chest moved he is alive. At that point he woke up and looked at us and "said oh I just get tired so I took a bit of a nap."

We went on to talk for well over an hour and he had came up to see what the field looked like and wanted to cut a few trees. The man is 84 years old. He said he felt bad he had not come up and helped me in the winter/spring. Well of course he had NOTHING to feel bad about. After the three of us talked for an hour he said "well I think I am going cut a few of these trees here" I just figured he had a battery saw or a bow saw. As he neighbor and I were walking out of the field we could here the familiar "whack". I did not turn around to see. I figured if the nice man wanted to go out having a heart attack while doing what he wanted I have no business interfering. I went back about 40 minutes later and he had left and I saw the "stump" and partials that I pictured.

I figure we would all be lucky to be able to do that at age 84. He made me feel real bad as I guess he still burns a little wood and has been coming up picking up a few pieces from time to time. I only cut junk trees because my outdoor boiler will burn all species. I now need to round up some nice seasoned wood for him and deliver it to his front porch. I really do not have any good stuff. I have some walnut, cherry and ash logs that were junk trees I cut last winter but they are still logs so that will not work. I will figure out something


----------



## mbrick

Wow. Thanks for sharing the back story.

I have to commend him for getting outside and doing something he wanted!


----------



## Bill G

mbrick said:


> Wow. Thanks for sharing the back story.
> 
> I have to commend him for getting outside and doing something he wanted!


He is truly a sweet, sweet man. We shared some funny stories and he still has his wits. One of teh many funny stories he shared was. "You know I retired from Alcoa 27 years ago and for 27 years they have sent me pension checks. I kinda feel bad, I only worked for them for 21 years, you think I should the checks back"


----------



## mbrick

Well you sure don't hear someone react to a generous pension like that very often. Sounds like an honest and genuine man.


----------



## Sierra_rider

One of today's trees...42" fir. Errors include a slight bypass cut in the middle, from when I was trying to finish the offside face. This tree was dead, tall, and almost perfectly balanced, so I should've done a deeper face to "saw some lean" into it. I wedged way harder than I normally want to into a tree with a compromised top.


----------



## Maintenance supervisor

Sierra_rider said:


> One of today's trees...42" fir. Errors include a slight bypass cut in the middle, from when I was trying to finish the offside face. This tree was dead, tall, and almost perfectly balanced, so I should've done a deeper face to "saw some lean" into it. I wedged way harder than I normally want to into a tree with a compromised top.
> 
> View attachment 1023939
> View attachment 1023938



Yup you can see your wedge imprint, that says sweat!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> One of today's trees...42" fir. Errors include a slight bypass cut in the middle, from when I was trying to finish the offside face. This tree was dead, tall, and almost perfectly balanced, so I should've done a deeper face to "saw some lean" into it. I wedged way harder than I normally want to into a tree with a compromised top.
> 
> View attachment 1023939
> View attachment 1023938


IMOP, as long as you don't smack the wedge more than once with out looking at the top each time, you're golden. As long the top isn't to far gone. Anymore than one smack to the wedge without looking up is just asking for trouble. It always takes me longer to wedge a fairly sound snag or live tree with a rotten top than a healthy 100% sound tree, but it should if one is paying close attention to the top and wants to stay alive in this game! I've rattled out many a rotten top! 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Often you will see a rotten top shake from the shock wave going up the trunk that the wedge lift produces. The more the top wiggles and shakes. The more likely it is to buckle off and come down crashing through the limbs!


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> Often you will see a rotten top shake from the shock wave going up the trunk that the wedge lift produces. The more the top wiggles and shakes. The more likely it is to buckle off and come down crashing through the limbs!


Not just the tops, but the limbs peel out of these dead firs easily. Definitely the sorts of trees you bail from the stump as it starts to go.

They trick some people, as the stumps are still solid and will still pull some fibers. Meanwhile, they often have loose limbs and fractured tops.


----------



## Fireman Bill

I’m still cutting dead ash trees at my brother in laws. I have a second person watch the dead limbs and jerk a rope tied to my waist when a limb falls. I do my Best to get out of the way. A hard hat is a must. I hate these darn trees.


----------



## Brufab

singinwoodwackr said:


> Suggested reading:
> 
> Professional Timber Falling, Doug Dent
> To Fell A Tree, Jeff Jepson
> Fundamentals of Tree Work, Jerry Beranek
> 
> just say’in…


I have the jeff jepson book, I keep it with me anytime I go and cut. Lots of easy to understand and valuable knowledge


----------



## Sierra_rider

Brufab said:


> I have the jeff jepson book, I keep it with me anytime I go and cut. Lots of easy to understand and valuable knowledge


I have all of them, but I'm particularly a fan of Beranek's book. 1/2 the book is climbing stuff, but some good info...especially the nuances of different hinge thicknesses and face depths.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> Not just the tops, but the limbs peel out of these dead firs easily. Definitely the sorts of trees you bail from the stump as it starts to go.
> 
> They trick some people, as the stumps are still solid and will still pull some fibers. Meanwhile, they often have loose limbs and fractured tops.


 Most definitely! Any thing higher up that's dead, rotten or hanging can be death from above!  I fell a four foot snag today 80' tall that was well into the deep stages of decomp! It was nerve racking to say the least. The whole upper half started to sway just from sitting forward ever so slightly during my top Humboldt cut. After I got the face completely out and started my back cut. It really started to dance. I was afraid it was going to close hard on the kerf of my back cut and buckle anywhere from the stump on up, so I quickly set two wedges with a firm push using only my hand.  That steadied it just enough to let my continue my cut and get it to commit. Earned a few more gray hairs over that snag I'll tell ya! I'll get pictures of the stump tomorrow and post them. 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Fireman Bill said:


> I’m still cutting dead ash trees at my brother in laws. I have a second person watch the dead limbs and jerk a rope tied to my waist when a limb falls. I do my Best to get out of the way. A hard hat is a must. I hate these darn trees.


Im sure you know this, but keep your head up as much as possible bud. "A hard hat is a must."  Your darn right it is. IMOP. Anyone who falls or tries to fall a tree/snag with out a hard hat or safety helmet doesn't know the first thing about felling! Gotta be safe!


----------



## Bill G

mbrick said:


> Well you sure don't hear someone react to a generous pension like that very often. Sounds like an honest and genuine man.


He is truly a great man and you do not find many that has not asked for more rent over the years, The sad thing is once this great man passes I will lose the land I have rented the majority of my life. His kids will ""cash out" on the development craze or my cousin will buy it to hunt and fish on.


----------



## Campbellcontractlogging

Black wally


----------



## singinwoodwackr

That


Campbellcontractlogging said:


> Black wally


That's not a stump


----------



## Campbellcontractlogging

singinwoodwackr said:


> That
> 
> That's not a stump


U can see the stump gotta get every board foot you can outta one like that super low


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> U can see the stump gotta get every board foot you can outta one like that super low


HVBW, lol


----------



## Bill G

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> U can see the stump gotta get every board foot you can outta one like that super low


Some will even use a shovel to dig down and get every inch possible


----------



## Campbellcontractlogging

Bill G said:


> Some will even use a shovel to dig down and get every inch possible


The walnut buyers in the past would want you to push the tree over and take the roots and all to make gun stocks


----------



## Bill G

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> The walnut buyers in the past would want you to push the tree over and take the roots and all to make gun stocks


Well if a guy was going to do that they better use a big excavator and dig it out. A dozer would destroy the prime wood. I do not know where you are but here a lot of the good walnut is growing in areas that are not accessible by excavators. In a few cases you cannot even get a cable skidder close enough. About 25 years ago I stopped by to visit with a couple guys at the end of the day. They were a two man operation and two good ole boys. It was the end of the day so they were a few beers in when the cutter said "oh by the way I went ahead and cut that Oak over in east gulley". The skidder driver said "you stupid son of a beech I told you I can't get that thing out of there" The cutter looks at him and in his slow drawl says "well ya gotta do er now don't cha" The other says"yep"


----------



## weimedog




----------



## Campbellcontractlogging

Bill G said:


> Well if a guy was going to do that they better use a big excavator and dig it out. A dozer would destroy the prime wood. I do not know where you are but here a lot of the good walnut is growing in areas that are not accessible by excavators. In a few cases you cannot even get a cable skidder close enough. About 25 years ago I stopped by to visit with a couple guys at the end of the day. They were a two man operation and two good ole boys. It was the end of the day so they were a few beers in when the cutter said "oh by the way I went ahead and cut that Oak over in east gulley". The skidder driver said "you stupid son of a beech I told you I can't get that thing out of there" The cutter looks at him and in his slow drawl says "well ya gotta do er now don't cha" The other says"yep"


648 grapple skidder you can dig at them roots and push them over but your right the good ones are in crazy spots


----------



## rwoods

Yesterday, I was asked to fall some hazard trees at our county shooting range in an area where they are building a sporting clay course. I left a large red oak that I deemed too hazardous to wedge.

Three larger ones from yesterday.

Red oak - will make some good firewood for the wood ministry.



Ash - this one will also make good firewood, but notice how it tore out before I got the trigger set even though it was sound enough to fall across a ravine and take out a small tree without busting. Never trust a dead ash no matter how sound it appears.





Another ash, I didn't have a place that provided a 45 degree rear exit so I notched the face for a little jump and I ditched the saw and ran upon committed movement. It busted all to pieces so no firewood, it will stay in the woods.



Today, I ran a line and cut the red oak that I left yesterday. I put a little tension on the line and lightly tapped in two wedges. When the wedges loosen a bit, I tapped them snug and then pulled the tree down with my truck. This one had about 25 feet of good firewood material in the lower stem. The rest looked to be too far gone; I don't really know for sure as it was closing time and I had to scat.



Same red oak - I took this picture as I was walking to the truck to get a magnet. The DSP valve vibrated out of my saw during the face cut. Found I had put my magnet in the wrong tool box which, of course, I had left at home. I finished cutting with an open port. Hard to beat those old MACs. I will have to come back another day to look for the valve.



Here are a couple pictures I took yesterday at the range of some stumps made by another back in the spring. Notice the first one where the tree fell 90 degrees from the intended fall. One of the guys involved was almost hit sometime during their venture. I was called in several days later to fall some larger partially cut trees that one of them left; all had a single sloping cut as these pictured.





Be safe,
Ron


----------



## chipper1

rwoods said:


> Yesterday, I was asked to fall some hazard trees at our county shooting range in an area where they are building a sporting clay course. I left a large red oak that I deemed too hazardous to wedge.
> 
> Three larger ones from yesterday.
> 
> Red oak - will make some good firewood for the wood ministry.
> View attachment 1024764
> 
> 
> Ash - this one will also make good firewood, but notice how it tore out before I got the trigger set even though it was sound enough to fall across a ravine and take out a small tree without busting. Never trust a dead ash no matter how sound it appears.
> View attachment 1024765
> View attachment 1024766
> View attachment 1024767
> 
> 
> Another ash, I didn't have a place that provided a 45 degree rear exit so I notched the face for a little jump and I ditched the saw and ran upon committed movement. It busted all to pieces so no firewood, it will stay in the woods.
> View attachment 1024768
> 
> 
> Today, I ran a line and cut the red oak that I left yesterday. I put a little tension on the line and lightly tapped in two wedges. When the wedges loosen a bit, I tapped them snug and then pulled the tree down with my truck. This one had about 25 feet of good firewood material in the lower stem. The rest looked to be too far gone; I don't really know for sure as it was closing time and I had to scat.
> View attachment 1024769
> 
> 
> Same red oak - I took this picture as I was walking to the truck to get a magnet. The DSP valve vibrated out of my saw during the face cut. Found I had put my magnet in the wrong tool box which, of course, I had left at home. I finished cutting with an open port. Hard to beat those old MACs. I will have to come back another day to look for the valve.
> View attachment 1024770
> 
> 
> Here are a couple pictures I took yesterday at the range of some stumps made by another back in the spring. Notice the first one where the tree fell 90 degrees from the intended fall. One of the guys involved was almost hit sometime during their venture. I was called in several days later to fall some larger partially cut trees that one of them left; all had a single sloping cut as these pictured.
> View attachment 1024771
> View attachment 1024772
> View attachment 1024773
> 
> 
> Be safe,
> Ron


Looks like they needed a bit more angle on those last ones .


----------



## chipper1

Dropped this huge set today after much deliberation...
Grandma is pleased it's down, need to remove the blue spruce to the right next, and climb for a few limbs in the large cottonwood near the barn.


----------



## Bill G

Campbellcontractlogging said:


> 648 grapple skidder you can dig at them roots and push them over but your right the good ones are in crazy spots


My brother has a 548G grapple and a couple newer ones. I was down to day scouting some trees we could not get to last winter. We got in a hell of a fix trying to get an Ash out last winter. I told him he needed to hang the iron but he would not listen. About a week later one of the skidders was laying on its top four wheels in the air at the bottom of a ravine. He hung the iron then.


----------



## rwoods

Ouch. 

Ron


----------



## Kodiak Kid

This is the stump from that big snag I cut the other day. 3' 10" The entire snag wasn't quite mulch, but it was entirely all punk. I really don't like cutting big tall snags. Never have! They are just too sketchy! Plain and simple. A faller really must be aware of his surroundings and have several escape routes at the ready!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

This is one side off a decent size double that was entirely gone with the exception of the sap ring! Hollow and mulch! I was s**ting bricks and sweating bullets  facing up this hazard, as I was doing it above my head and under its heavy lean! I couldn't bore the back side to test for soundness without compromising what little wood was left holding after face up!  Both trees off the stump. Stihl had all their crown! Very deceiving! 

I apologize fir the dark photos. The pictures were taken right at day break. 







Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Old-Feller

NorthernMaverick said:


> Pardon the duh looking selfie, it was cold, but it was a good day cutting aspen.  The cool looking basswood stump was after flush cutting the quad stump down. I'll get some more pics later, but these were some good ones I had on my phone. As for the bad shots, hangs, or the ones I've lost over backwards, we won't talk about those.  lol.


Wow! Michigan Aspen looks nothing like "UTAH" Aspen? Utah Aspen has a silvery white bark.


----------



## chipper1

Old-Feller said:


> Wow! Michigan Aspen looks nothing like "UTAH" Aspen? Utah Aspen has a silvery white bark.


Yeah, everything's better here  .
Aspen, cottonwood, poplar are all in the same genus, populus(poplar also called popple by many). Here(MI) many call them poplar or cottonwood, he's not the norm in that aspect, I like to call them Aspen just to mess with people myself lol.


----------



## Old-Feller

Here is what ours looks like! The root system is all inter-connected. Quaking aspen


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> This is one side off a decent size double that was entirely gone with the exception of the sap ring! Hollow and mulch! I was s**ting bricks and sweating bullets  facing up this hazard, as I was doing it above my head and under its heavy lean! I couldn't bore the back side to test for soundness without compromising what little wood was left holding after face up!  Both trees off the stump. Stihl had all their crown! Very deceiving!
> 
> I apologize fir the dark photos. The pictures were taken right at day break.
> View attachment 1025148
> View attachment 1025145
> View attachment 1025144
> View attachment 1025146
> View attachment 1025147
> 
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


You running your 660 until you get your new 661 properly accessorized? I pulled my ported/machined 066 out the other day for some falling, I forgot how awesome those saws are. It pulls a 36" with an 8 pin with authority.


----------



## Leeroy

chipper1 said:


> Yeah, everything's better here  .
> Aspen, cottonwood, poplar are all in the same genus, populus(poplar also called popple by many). Here(MI) many call them poplar or cottonwood, he's not the norm in that aspect, I like to call them Aspen just to mess with people myself lol


Do any Michiganers use the ever popular "popular" trees? Lol


----------



## chipper1

Leeroy said:


> Do any Michiganers use the ever popular "popular" trees? Lol


I've heard that many times lol.
Same guys who sell wood by the chord .


Old-Feller said:


> Here is what ours looks like! The root system is all inter-connected. Quaking aspen
> 
> View attachment 1025273


Beautiful. 
If I was in there, they'd be quaking.


----------



## Sierra_rider

This time of the year is always awesome because of the Aspens. They're just starting to turn color up in the high country.


----------



## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> You running your 660 until you get your new 661 properly accessorized? I pulled my ported/machined 066 out the other day for some falling, I forgot how awesome those saws are. It pulls a 36" with an 8 pin with authority.


Did someone say 660. I've had a few, but I only used them a few times a yr. Most everything I do can easily be done with a ported 70cc saw, even if I need to run a 36" on it, which I'll probably do tomorrow, I'll try to get a few pics, it's a bit nasty, but nothing like this one . Good thing the side I needed it to go was alive, I stopped as soon as she started spraying brown wood, glad I did.





Even found a kid in the stump after I pulled all the junk out to flush cut it lol.


----------



## Sierra_rider

chipper1 said:


> Did someone say 660. I've had a few, but I only used them a few times a yr. Most everything I do can easily be done with a ported 70cc saw, even if I need to run a 36" on it, which I'll probably do tomorrow, I'll try to get a few pics, it's a bit nasty, but nothing like this one . Good thing the side I needed it to go was alive, I stopped as soon as she started spraying brown wood, glad I did.
> View attachment 1025349
> 
> View attachment 1025350
> 
> 
> Even found a kid in the stump after I pulled all the junk out to flush cut it lol.
> 
> View attachment 1025351



I can see why that tree needed to come out, nice work.

My falling partner got me a couple of pics from the last time I took the 066 out cutting. I don't pull it out often, but I love running it when I get to cut larger timber...I run a 36" almost exclusively on mine. I do have a 42" for it, but I rarely run that.

I'm 6'1" for reference, sorry for the blur, but I prefer to keep my face and who I work for, anonymous.


----------



## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> I can see why that tree needed to come out, nice work.
> 
> My falling partner got me a couple of pics from the last time I took the 066 out cutting. I don't pull it out often, but I love running it when I get to cut larger timber...I run a 36" almost exclusively on mine. I do have a 42" for it, but I rarely run that.
> 
> I'm 6'1" for reference, sorry for the blur, but I prefer to keep my face and who I work for, anonymous.


Nice, but you need to keep your head up when the crane is lifting those tops over your head .
I don't do that many big trees and most are compromised or softwoods so they cut fairly easily. The main place I find myself wanting a larger bar is on when I don't want to be on the low side or theres a fence or some other obstacle in the way where I can't get around the back side or I'd be boxed in even on the high side. 
Good example here. This one was full of all sorts of debris, dang city folk, then again I've done trees in the country where the kids filled them with rocks where a stem broke off . This one also had quite a few nails I hit on the upper portion, I'm guessing a fort of some sort.




Here's all the lower I went with the stump, they were still pleased as it really opened up the back yard/parking and it was hanging over the house too.




I was proud of my calculations on the stem, didn't even touch the cement pad .




But as the good book says, pride comes before the "fall", and I ended up swinging(by a rope) another tree right onto my truck on this job . What do they call that, the school of hard knocks .


----------



## Old-Feller

chipper1 said:


> Nice, but you need to keep your head up when the crane is lifting those tops over your head .
> I don't do that many big trees and most are compromised or softwoods so they cut fairly easily. The main place I find myself wanting a larger bar is on when I don't want to be on the low side or theres a fence or some other obstacle in the way where I can't get around the back side or I'd be boxed in even on the high side.
> Good example here. This one was full of all sorts of debris, dang city folk, then again I've done trees in the country where the kids filled them with rocks where a stem broke off . This one also had quite a few nails I hit on the upper portion, I'm guessing a fort of some sort.
> 
> View attachment 1025376
> 
> 
> Here's all the lower I went with the stump, they were still pleased as it really opened up the back yard/parking and it was hanging over the house too.
> 
> View attachment 1025377
> 
> 
> I was proud of my calculations on the stem, didn't even touch the cement pad .
> 
> View attachment 1025378
> 
> 
> But as the good book says, pride comes before the "fall", and I ended up swinging(by a rope) another tree right onto my truck on this job . What do they call that, the school of hard knocks .
> 
> View attachment 1025380


Look at the BRIGHT SIDE, At least it was YOUR TRUCK!!


----------



## Bill G

chipper1 said:


> But as the good book says, pride comes before the "fall", and I ended up swinging(by a rope) another tree right onto my truck on this job . What do they call that, the school of hard knocks .
> 
> View attachment 1025380


Well the way I see it is posting the description along with a pic of a miscalculation is a true measure of a man/woman. Some would have left the above portion out but a true man like yourself showed the good and the shall we say "not so good" I commend you for that.


----------



## Bill G

Old-Feller said:


> Look at the BRIGHT SIDE, At least it was YOUR TRUCK!!


*100% TRUE*


----------



## chipper1

Old-Feller said:


> Look at the BRIGHT SIDE, At least it was YOUR TRUCK!!


It's much like when I backed a truck into a shipping container in the yard(at a company I worked for), I walked in and got the safety guy and showed him, he said why do you seem so happy about it, well I'm a new driver and it's my first accident, noone was hurt, I didn't get a ticket, and the truck won't need to be towed to the yard, what's not to be happy about .


Bill G said:


> Well the way I see it is posting the description along with a pic of a miscalculation is a true measure of a man/woman. Some would have left the above portion out but a true man like yourself showed the good and the shall we say "not so good" I commend you for that.


If you never screw up, your either Jesus or a liar . 
It doesn't bother me if someone knows I screwed up, I like to say "I've messed up more times than most people ever will, but because of it, I can now do more things than most people will ever be able to do". 
Many people doubt my experience, I think it mainly comes from their lack not willingness to try things themselves. As a teacher, I'm sure you know what I mean when I say, you can go to school for an education or you can learn to do something yourself, either way will cost you; one difference is when you do it yourself, you get experience. Experience is what you get when things don't go as planned, I have lots of experience .


----------



## Bill G

As you said if you never screw up you are either Jesus or a liar. I do not want to get biblical but the message rings true in many situations.
Proverbs 24:16-18
16 For a righteous _man_ may fall seven times
And rise again,
But the wicked shall fall by calamity.​
17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
18 Lest the Lord see _it,_ and [a]it displease Him,
And He turn away His wrath from him.


----------



## chipper1

Bill G said:


> As you said if you never screw up you are either Jesus or a liar. I do not want to get biblical but the message rings true in many situations.
> Proverbs 24:16-18​16 For a righteous _man_ may fall seven times​And rise again,​But the wicked shall fall by calamity.​
> 17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
> And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
> 18 Lest the Lord see _it,_ and [a]it displease Him,
> And He turn away His wrath from him.


Reported, this belongs in the "Falling " thread .


----------



## Sierra_rider

chipper1 said:


> Nice, but you need to keep your head up when the crane is lifting those tops over your head .
> I don't do that many big trees and most are compromised or softwoods so they cut fairly easily. The main place I find myself wanting a larger bar is on when I don't want to be on the low side or theres a fence or some other obstacle in the way where I can't get around the back side or I'd be boxed in even on the high side.
> Good example here. This one was full of all sorts of debris, dang city folk, then again I've done trees in the country where the kids filled them with rocks where a stem broke off . This one also had quite a few nails I hit on the upper portion, I'm guessing a fort of some sort.
> 
> View attachment 1025376
> 
> 
> Here's all the lower I went with the stump, they were still pleased as it really opened up the back yard/parking and it was hanging over the house too.
> 
> View attachment 1025377
> 
> 
> I was proud of my calculations on the stem, didn't even touch the cement pad .
> 
> View attachment 1025378
> 
> 
> But as the good book says, pride comes before the "fall", and I ended up swinging(by a rope) another tree right onto my truck on this job . What do they call that, the school of hard knocks .
> 
> View attachment 1025380


Lol, no crane, that was strictly falling for me...although I miscalculated the lean and was pounding wedges like a mad man. I should've gone about 1/2 on the face cut...I thought I saw the top move ahead so I stopped, but I was really just seeing things lol.

Oopsie on your Suburban. I used to take some chances(I still do,) but I now park the truck out of the drop path. Even if I have to pull a tree, I prefer doing it with a block/tackle or using heavy equipment.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> You running your 660 until you get your new 661 properly accessorized? I pulled my ported/machined 066 out the other day for some falling, I forgot how awesome those saws are. It pulls a 36" with an 8 pin with authority.


I was running the 660 because I smashed my primary. A few days prior. Those pictures were taken Friday. I got my new 661 Saturday. When the parts come in for my smashed primary. I'll go back to running it and have my new 661 for a backup. The 660 it pretty tired. I have a new top end for it on the way also. I ran my new 661 today. 



Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> I was running the 660 because I smashed my primary. A few days prior. Those pictures were taken Friday. I got my new 661 Saturday. When the parts come in for my smashed primary. I'll go back to running it and have my new 661 for a backup. The 660 it pretty tired. I have a new top end for it on the way also. I ran my new 661 today.
> View attachment 1025443
> 
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


You cut your hinge off  .
Nice job bud.
How do you like that little 661. I've sold a few of them, as I was saying, just can't justify keeping a 90. But when you need one, you really need them!


----------



## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> Lol, no crane, that was strictly falling for me...although I miscalculated the lean and was pounding wedges like a mad man. I should've gone about 1/2 on the face cut...I thought I saw the top move ahead so I stopped, but I was really just seeing things lol.
> 
> Oopsie on your Suburban. I used to take some chances(I still do,) but I now park the truck out of the drop path. Even if I have to pull a tree, I prefer doing it with a block/tackle or using heavy equipment.


I was just messing with you, where you smeared your face it made the two trees behind you look like their tops were floating in the air.
It happens, and as was said, it was my truck, no-one was hurt, and the property wasn't damaged. The way I look at it, it's not an if something happens when doing tree work, it's a when something happens, and this wasn't as bad as many other things that could have happened.
My plan on it changed, because they put new blacktop on the drive a couple days earlier, or I would have dropped it across the drive. I was still planning on doing that, but then I changed my mind and backed my truck up, I had it much close to just drop it because I had full confidence in where it would go, just not 100% confidence it wouldn't damage the blacktop. So the truck is backed up and I'm going to rig the tree(which was mostly a stem because I had already stripped it), I didn't have a throw line but was able to get my rope in the tree, and I send running bowline up it, but then I had no way to set my pulley, so I set it as high as I could(wasn't high enough), when I notched it the hinge broke and the tree swung right over top of where my truck was parked and directly into where it was now parked. I would have parked on the street, but I was on a long steep drive and the neighborhood is not a good one.
At the end of the day, it's just business, but yes I'd do things different.


----------



## Sierra_rider

chipper1 said:


> I was just messing with you, where you smeared your face it made the two trees behind you look like their tops were floating in the air.
> It happens, and as was said, it was my truck, no-one was hurt, and the property wasn't damaged. The way I look at it, it's not an if something happens when doing tree work, it's a when something happens, and this wasn't as bad as many other things that could have happened.
> My plan on it changed, because they put new blacktop on the drive a couple days earlier, or I would have dropped it across the drive. I was still planning on doing that, but then I changed my mind and backed my truck up, I had it much close to just drop it because I had full confidence in where it would go, just not 100% confidence it wouldn't damage the blacktop. So the truck is backed up and I'm going to rig the tree(which was mostly a stem because I had already stripped it), I didn't have a throw line but was able to get my rope in the tree, and I send running bowline up it, but then I had no way to set my pulley, so I set it as high as I could(wasn't high enough), when I notched it the hinge broke and the tree swung right over top of where my truck was parked and directly into where it was now parked. I would have parked on the street, but I was on a long steep drive and the neighborhood is not a good one.
> At the end of the day, it's just business, but yes I'd do things different.


Your dollar damage may have been higher, but my big oopsie was muchhhhhh dumber. Luckily it was mine as well and not somebody else's.

I straight up fell a cedar tree into my greenhouse. I had room to fall it to the side of the greenhouse and that was actually my intent. Nevertheless, if fell onto the greenhouse. When it happened, I was thinking "WTF?" I then looked at my cuts and I sure as hell faced it into the greenhouse...I don't know what I was thinking that day, I don't even have a good excuse...it was just pure idiocy on my part...I guess I went into space cadet mode and aimed it for the object I was trying to miss lol.

Luckily the top broke when it hit and the damage was minimal...unfortunately, my neighbor was watching and probably still thinks I'm a moron. I don't really care though...he moved away, so now I'm back to being the "competent" guy in the neighborhood.


----------



## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> Your dollar damage may have been higher, but my big oopsie was muchhhhhh dumber. Luckily it was mine as well and not somebody else's.
> 
> I straight up fell a cedar tree into my greenhouse. I had room to fall it to the side of the greenhouse and that was actually my intent. Nevertheless, if fell onto the greenhouse. When it happened, I was thinking "WTF?" I then looked at my cuts and I sure as hell faced it into the greenhouse...I don't know what I was thinking that day, I don't even have a good excuse...it was just pure idiocy on my part...I guess I went into space cadet mode and aimed it for the object I was trying to miss lol.
> 
> Luckily the top broke when it hit and the damage was minimal...unfortunately, my neighbor was watching and probably still thinks I'm a moron. I don't really care though...he moved away, so now I'm back to being the "competent" guy in the neighborhood.


Actually I don't think I had more than 400 out of pocket. I never claimed it and had a buddy who's a body guy(he works at a shop that specializes in repairable insurance totals) bend the pillar and the door frame back, and the side and front windows were real cheap. Then when I sold it I did just fine on it after owning it for like 5 yrs, it came from closer to you up in Oregon, so a no rust suburban + in michigan= easy sale .
Dang bro, what you growing in that "green"house  LOL.


----------



## Sierra_rider

chipper1 said:


> Actually I don't think I had more than 400 out of pocket. I never claimed it and had a buddy who's a body guy(he works at a shop that specializes in repairable insurance totals) bend the pillar and the door frame back, and the side and front windows were real cheap. Then when I sold it I did just fine on it after owning it for like 5 yrs, it came from closer to you up in Oregon, so a no rust suburban + in michigan= easy sale .
> Dang bro, what you growing in that "green"house  LOL.



Hahaha! Everyone thinks I grow weed in there...I don't do that anymore lol. It actually has some redwood and cedar slabs...maybe I'll grab some pics tomorrow. It used to be stacked in there, but I've since sold off most of my stock.

I hear you on anything w/o rust in Mi. I'm building a 72 K20 Chev and it was a "rusty" truck as far as Cali trucks go...meaning that the rockers had to be replaced. I used to be on the 67-72 forum and I was blown away by some of the cabs that guys were restoring...those cabs would've been scrapped everytime out here on the left coast.

Snow is a thing where I live(luckily they don't really salt the roads) so we can get a bit of rust up here in the mountains. It's usually that you get in your truck with snowy boots and the water sits in the rockers...that was likely the case with my 72.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> You cut your hinge off  .
> Nice job bud.
> How do you like that little 661. I've sold a few of them, as I was saying, just can't justify keeping a 90. But when you need one, you really need them!


 Lol! Oh I beg to differ Sir! If you're referring to the butt of the log. I flushed the hinge off afterwards. Or, are you just Josh'n me? Look at the stump and you'll see plenty of hinge!  Although I often do saw off corners or sometimes entire hinge wood on some of my timber after the tree is well past commitment. Depending on the circumstances. It prevents stump pull. Keep in mind Chipper. This wood is getting exported to a commercial mill over seas.  It is not "down for the scrounge"! 

I like the new 661 fir the most part. I like my hopped up 661 better. (When its not smashed and waiting on parts!!!) I'll have it back on line in the strip soon and my new 661 opened up and hopped as well!  A 70 hopped up or not simply won't keep up with a 90 in the wood I'm cutting. In fact the General Manager of the company I'm working for nor the Bull Buck will let cutters run 70's in this wood because they slow production! 

 Stay safe bud!


----------



## Maintenance supervisor

Guys don't forget, I was cutting at an area that had multiple targets yesterday, power poles with lights and an expensive boat dock. 3 small trees and 2 20"+ pines. Only a small area to drop safely, oh and lots of pedestrians as usual. 
Last year cutting multiple big trees with the same guys in basically a target free zone aka no hazards, I got in a hurry and cut through one of my hinges and one of the big pines went sideways, not ideal for the tractor driver. Wouldn't you know it if one of the guys didn't mention it yesterday! Before one of my critical shots! 
Every thing went well though yesterday and all the trees went well. I'll probably have to cut 100 perfect trees in front of those guys for them to forget about the one tree though.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Maintenance supervisor said:


> Guys don't forget, I was cutting at an area that had multiple targets yesterday, power poles with lights and an expensive boat dock. 3 small trees and 2 20"+ pines. Only a small area to drop safely, oh and lots of pedestrians as usual.
> Last year cutting multiple big trees with the same guys in basically a target free zone aka no hazards, I got in a hurry and cut through one of my hinges and one of the big pines went sideways, not ideal for the tractor driver. Wouldn't you know it if one of the guys didn't mention it yesterday! Before one of my critical shots!
> Every thing went well though yesterday and all the trees went well. I'll probably have to cut 100 perfect trees in front of those guys for them to forget about the one tree though.


I always seem to loose one right when my boss just happens to show up in my strip!


----------



## chipper1

Maintenance supervisor said:


> Guys don't forget, I was cutting at an area that had multiple targets yesterday, power poles with lights and an expensive boat dock. 3 small trees and 2 20"+ pines. Only a small area to drop safely, oh and lots of pedestrians as usual.
> Last year cutting multiple big trees with the same guys in basically a target free zone aka no hazards, I got in a hurry and cut through one of my hinges and one of the big pines went sideways, not ideal for the tractor driver. Wouldn't you know it if one of the guys didn't mention it yesterday! Before one of my critical shots!
> Every thing went well though yesterday and all the trees went well. I'll probably have to cut 100 perfect trees in front of those guys for them to forget about the one tree though.


Gonna need to give that guy a good.
But yeah, don't do that lol.


Kodiak Kid said:


> Lol! Oh I beg to differ Sir! If you're referring to the butt of the log. I flushed the hinge off afterwards. Or, are you just Josh'n me? Look at the stump and you'll see plenty of hinge!  Although I often do saw off corners or sometimes entire hinge wood on some of my timber after the tree is well past commitment. Depending on the circumstances. It prevents stump pull. Keep in mind Chipper. This wood is getting exported to a commercial mill over seas.  It is not "down for the scrounge"!
> 
> I like the new 661 fir the most part. I like my hopped up 661 better. (When its not smashed and waiting on parts!!!) I'll have it back on line in the strip soon and my new 661 opened up and hopped well!  A 70 hopped up or not simply won't keep up with a 90 in the wood I'm cutting. In fact the General Manager of the company I'm working for nor the Bull Buck will let cutters run 70's in this wood because they slow production!
> 
> Stay safe bud!


I knew what I was seeing, and I saw your hinge was cut off LOL.
The stump looked great, sure wish I got to cut on some bigger stuff, but you gotta take what you can get. The maple I'm planning on dropping today is good sized, clear drop zone and a house directly behind the direction of pull. I thought about heading over yesterday, but we had winds steady at 18mph and gust higher. While they were mostly blowing in the right direction, you know I'd get half way thru my backcut and I'd start throwing dark chips and then hit a nail. As that's a reality in doing old trees on a farm and by the time I get called to cut them they are way past their prime, I usually have a spare saw on the ground running when I'm cutting them, Not wanting to stop to change chains or sharpen a dinged up one with a crippled tree.
As far as the ported 70's not keeping up with 90's, I guess you need a ported 7900/7910, too bad they stopped production on them.
Speaking of nasty maples here's one I did on a farm not far from our place. 









Found another kid in this one too .


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Another sketchy snag is just another day in the strip.






Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> Gonna need to give that guy a good.
> But yeah, don't do that lol.
> 
> I knew what I was seeing, and I saw your hinge was cut off LOL.
> The stump looked great, sure wish I got to cut on some bigger stuff, but you gotta take what you can get. The maple I'm planning on dropping today is good sized, clear drop zone and a house directly behind the direction of pull. I thought about heading over yesterday, but we had winds steady at 18mph and gust higher. While they were mostly blowing in the right direction, you know I'd get half way thru my backcut and I'd start throwing dark chips and then hit a nail. As that's a reality in doing old trees on a farm and by the time I get called to cut them they are way past their prime, I usually have a spare saw on the ground running when I'm cutting them, Not wanting to stop to change chains or sharpen a dinged up one with a crippled tree.
> As far as the ported 70's not keeping up with 90's, I guess you need a ported 7900/7910, too bad they stopped production on them.
> Speaking of nasty maples here's one I did on a farm not far from our place.
> View attachment 1025500
> 
> View attachment 1025501
> 
> View attachment 1025502
> 
> View attachment 1025503
> 
> 
> Found another kid in this one too .
> 
> View attachment 1025504


Lol!  Nice! Great photos Brett and good job!


----------



## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> Lol!  Nice! Great photos Brett and good job!


Thanks, she was a nasty one, but fortunately it had some good wood in there. That will dull a chain quickly!




It also had some big hardware in it .








I also did this walnut directly across the street, it was split all the way into the ground. What was fun as I took each side down separately, I wish I would have gotten a picture of that, it looked pretty crazy and the customer was a bit concerned(same one who was going to remove all the fence posts lol). I explained to them that it had been standing just like that(you can see how dry the two butts are) with no support from the other side other than the weight on the stump and that it would be just fine, but it did look real sketchy.


----------



## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> Another sketchy snag is just another day in the strip.
> 
> View attachment 1025507
> View attachment 1025510
> View attachment 1025512
> 
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


Some large fungus on that big nasty .
Looks like it held on long enough to get it to commit though.
Sure wish I had one of those fancy new saws .


----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> Some large fungus on that big nasty .
> Looks like it held on long enough to get it to commit though.
> Sure wish I had one of those fancy new saws .


Yeah she was pretty rotten alright! There was actually a smaller snag hung up in it that I had to work under when I fell it. I'm going to post a short clip of the fall on the "Falling Pics" thread. 

 Its a pretty nice saw! My first M-tronic. I was sceptical about purchasing an M-tronic saw at first, but it seems to be a good powerful running saw! Although its not really broke in yet, so far so good. How big is that Dolmar? Thats a good looking saw!  Is that saw affiliated with the Sax/Dolmar saw maker from back in the day?


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> Yeah she was pretty rotten alright! There was actually a smaller snag hung up in it that I had to work under when I fell it. I'm going to post a short clip of the fall on the "Falling Pics" thread.
> 
> Its a pretty nice saw! My first M-tronic. I was sceptical about purchasing an M-tronic saw at first, but it seems to be a good powerful running saw! Although its not really broke in yet, so far so good. How big is that Dolmar? Thats a good looking saw!  Is that saw affiliated with the Sax/Dolmar saw maker from back in the day?


The newer M-tronic is good stuff, I think you'll like it. I've had a few apart and they actually wear well...I think they run a bit on the rich side, which is good for a work saw IMO.

Just a couple observations after running M-tronic saws for a bit...I let them idle for a few seconds after finishing a cut, it seems they start up back up easier that way. 

Also, if it's getting low on fuel, shut it off at the first burble...don't try to zip one more limb off or finish that cut. Once fueled back up, they are a PITA to start if ran out of fuel...more so than a normal carb saw IMO. I know good fallers make sure they got enough fuel before they commit to a tree, but **** happens.


----------



## NorthernMaverick

Old-Feller said:


> Wow! Michigan Aspen looks nothing like "UTAH" Aspen? Utah Aspen has a silvery white bark.


We have some stands like that too. Ours is mostly big tooth aspen, that we cut. The first pic is from this website:

https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/tree/big-tooth-aspen,

It compares quaking to big tooth. When big tooth gets mature, it gets a very rough Grey colored bark. Where we were cutting in that pic, it was a lot of individual trees mixed with hardwood and other species. And for the record I've been guilty of calling it "popple" more than once. Lol.


----------



## chipper1

Got the Maple down today. Also diced up and removed about a third of it. It was just as nasty as I had pictured it being .
36 didn't make it across the face.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> The newer M-tronic is good stuff, I think you'll like it. I've had a few apart and they actually wear well...I think they run a bit on the rich side, which is good for a work saw IMO.
> 
> Just a couple observations after running M-tronic saws for a bit...I let them idle for a few seconds after finishing a cut, it seems they start up back up easier that way.
> 
> Also, if it's getting low on fuel, shut it off at the first burble...don't try to zip one more limb off or finish that cut. Once fueled back up, they are a PITA to start if ran out of fuel...more so than a normal carb saw IMO. I know good fallers make sure they got enough fuel before they commit to a tree, but **** happens.


All good to know. Thanks for the info!


----------



## rwoods

Today I felled another hazard tree while at the range. This dead ash didn't even wait for the back cut. It cracked just as I started a bore to set the hinge. About 6" deep with the tip and the tree let go. I will be glad when I am done. Every trip there I spot at least two more. My backlog keeps growing; currently it is more than a dozen.

No back cut, just the beginnning of a bore.



Bore



Possibly some firewood up from the stump.



Cleared area will soon be open to public. Thus this tree had to go.



Be safe,
Ron


----------



## chipper1

rwoods said:


> Today I felled another hazard tree while at the range. This dead ash didn't even wait for the back cut. It cracked just as I started a bore to set the hinge. About 6" deep with the tip and the tree let go. I will be glad when I am done. Every trip there I spot at least two more. My backlog keeps growing; currently it is more than a dozen.
> 
> No back cut, just the beginnning of a bore.
> View attachment 1028683
> 
> 
> Bore
> View attachment 1028684
> 
> 
> Possibly some firewood up from the stump.
> View attachment 1028685
> 
> 
> Cleared area will soon be open to public. Thus this tree had to go.
> View attachment 1028686
> 
> 
> Be safe,
> Ron


Shows just how sketchy they are.
What amazes me is while portions will be very punky, other portions that look identical are rock hard.


----------



## Sierra_rider

chipper1 said:


> Shows just how sketchy they are.
> What amazes me is while portions will be very punky, other portions that look identical are rock hard.


We don't have those out here, but we do have a really sketchy species of tree local to where I work. It's call Tanoak and is afflicted with disease called sudden oak death.

Some will be extremely weak despite appearing semi-solid. I had a scare with a larger one this summer...I was still in my gunning cut when it broke and set down on my bar. Despite a visual crack that formed around the circumference of the tree, it just hung there and I was able to at least get the power head off(462R.) I ended up grabbing another saw and just sent it without ever getting a face cut into it. 

Luckily my 28" lightweight bar emerged without damage.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Ha


rwoods said:


> Today I felled another hazard tree while at the range. This dead ash didn't even wait for the back cut. It cracked just as I started a bore to set the hinge. About 6" deep with the tip and the tree let go. I will be glad when I am done. Every trip there I spot at least two more. My backlog keeps growing; currently it is more than a dozen.
> 
> No back cut, just the beginnning of a bore.
> View attachment 1028683
> 
> 
> Bore
> View attachment 1028684
> 
> 
> Possibly some firewood up from the stump.
> View attachment 1028685
> 
> 
> Cleared area will soon be open to public. Thus this tree had to go.
> View attachment 1028686
> 
> 
> Be safe,
> Ron


Hard to say for certain because Im not familiar with Ash. However, by it may be a good thing that it broke off the stump as you started your bore. If you had made it all the way through. The snag could have possibly sat down on your bar while compressing the hinge at the same time. Resulting in either not breathing off, and trapping your saw, buckling any where from the top down out of control, or simply breaking off in your intended face cut direction just like it did. All this depending on The stage of decomposition of course! That's why I don't plunge cut snags without a vertical bore test in the intended face cut area and back cut area first. I Seldom plunge cut snag's anyway. Had them go wrong a few times to many. This is all just simply my opinion bud and I'm glad it worked out for ya without mishap!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> We don't have those out here, but we do have a really sketchy species of tree local to where I work. It's call Tanoak and is afflicted with disease called sudden oak death.
> 
> Some will be extremely weak despite appearing semi-solid. I had a scare with a larger one this summer...I was still in my gunning cut when it broke and set down on my bar. Despite a visual crack that formed around the circumference of the tree, it just hung there and I was able to at least get the power head off(462R.) I ended up grabbing another saw and just sent it without ever getting a face cut into it.
> 
> Luckily my 28" lightweight bar emerged without damage.


I remember you mentioning that in a post soon after it happened!  

Snags will often sit back and away from their lean. Especially with to shallow of a face. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that's why you got hung up. I just thought I'd mention it. I always try to expect the worst when dealing with snags! Simply can't predict them IMOP. 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## weimedog

CLEAN off Your Stumps... Hobby farm stuff because inevitable they will "bite" you in the future if they are left long.


----------



## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> We don't have those out here, but we do have a really sketchy species of tree local to where I work. It's call Tanoak and is afflicted with disease called sudden oak death.
> 
> Some will be extremely weak despite appearing semi-solid. I had a scare with a larger one this summer...I was still in my gunning cut when it broke and set down on my bar. Despite a visual crack that formed around the circumference of the tree, it just hung there and I was able to at least get the power head off(462R.) I ended up grabbing another saw and just sent it without ever getting a face cut into it.
> 
> Luckily my 28" lightweight bar emerged without damage.


Is that the same species you posted about in the scrounge thread, Cali black oak?

I remember you saying that before too, I was happy for you the lightweight bar made it out okay, they have gotten very pricey these days, obviously I was glad you made it out okay too .


Kodiak Kid said:


> Ha
> Hard to say for certain because Im not familiar with Ash. However, by it may be a good thing that it broke off the stump as you started your bore. If you had made it all the way through. The snag could have possibly sat down on your bar while compressing the hinge at the same time. Resulting in either not breathing off, and trapping your saw, buckling any where from the top down out of control, or simply breaking off in your intended face cut direction just like it did. All this depending on The stage of decomposition of course! That's why I don't plunge cut snags without a vertical bore test in the intended face cut area and back cut area first. I Seldom plunge cut snag's anyway. Had them go wrong a few times to many. This is all just simply my opinion bud and I'm glad it worked out for ya without mishap!
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


I've not ran into a problem boring large dead standing trees, but I've gotten pinched up more than once dealing with storm damage, while you can read the pressure on them as they were a normal tree you fell, there's no way to know what any of the stress fractures inside caused by it still being attached to to the root ball will do once you start cutting, whether boring or cutting in from the outside.
I may have a couple pics of some of those special occasions where I got pinched up, one ended up with two saws in the tree, third try was a charm 
Found it .


And another.
This one was twisted torqued along side another tree, after I cut the upper portion of the tree off it and it sprung back into its previous location, I attempted to cut straight across the stump since it was leaning where i wantedit to fall. She bound up on me multiple time(although I didn't get stuck), as you can see it was quite the mess internally. No, I didn't split this.


----------



## Sierra_rider

chipper1 said:


> Is that the same species you posted about in the scrounge thread, Cali black oak?
> 
> I remember you saying that before too, I was happy for you the lightweight bar made it out okay, they have gotten very pricey these days, obviously I was glad you made it out okay too .
> 
> I've not ran into a problem boring large dead standing trees, but I've gotten pinched up more than once dealing with storm damage, while you can read the pressure on them as they were a normal tree you fell, there's no way to know what any of the stress fractures inside caused by it still being attached to to the root ball will do once you start cutting, whether boring or cutting in from the outside.
> I may have a couple pics of some of those special occasions where I got pinched up, one ended up with two saws in the tree, third try was a charm
> Found it .
> View attachment 1028784
> 
> And another.
> This one was twisted torqued along side another tree, after I cut the upper portion of the tree off it and it sprung back into its previous location, I attempted to cut straight across the stump since it was leaning where i wantedit to fall. She bound up on me multiple time(although I didn't get stuck), as you can see it was quite the mess internally. No, I didn't split this.
> View attachment 1028786


 Tanoak is a different species than the Black oak and actually not a true oak tree. I try to learn something from every tree that doesn't go exactly to plan, but you're never going to completely remove the risk. With those trees, I just approach them like they are actively trying to kill me.

Storm damage/blowdown/windfall sucks. IMO, cutting burned/rotten hazard trees at work is a safer practice than cutting large windfall trees. The storm damage here usually happens during a snow storm, which adds another hazard. They often involve powerlines and the snow makes it difficult to run out an escape path. 

The other major scenario for me is cutting windfall from windstorms. Some of the ridges up in the mountains will sometimes see hurricane force winds...we ride dirtbikes on a lot of those trails and I often carry one of my top handles when clearing trail. Between the small saw and the windfall, it's an extremely dangerous practice IMO...there are some pretty crazy binds to deal with when you have a bunch of toothpicks all over a steep hillside.

Christmas last year:






I don't take pictures as often as I should, one of the safer cuts while out on the trail:






The old set up, I've since acquired a 2511t that is now the bike saw(also mostly replaced the 201 for climbing too.)


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> I remember you mentioning that in a post soon after it happened!
> 
> Snags will often sit back and away from their lean. Especially with to shallow of a face. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that's why you got hung up. I just thought I'd mention it. I always try to expect the worst when dealing with snags! Simply can't predict them IMOP.
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


Mine set down on me before I even finished the face cut. It's been awhile since I cut it, but I remember it had a head lean(but not a heavy lean) and I went with a shallow face cut on it as I was cognizant of it sitting down on my bar. Instead of the kerf slowly closing, it just cracked/popped and set down. If it had any more head lean, it would've likely fallen instead of merely sitting forward. 

I'm all for trying to learn things and avoiding future problems, but I kinda chalk up that one to "bad stuff sometimes happens when cutting sketchy trees."


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> Tanoak is a different species than the Black oak and actually not a true oak tree. I try to learn something from every tree that doesn't go exactly to plan, but you're never going to completely remove the risk. With those trees, I just approach them like they are actively trying to kill me.
> 
> Storm damage/blowdown/windfall sucks. IMO, cutting burned/rotten hazard trees at work is a safer practice than cutting large windfall trees. The storm damage here usually happens during a snow storm, which adds another hazard. They often involve powerlines and the snow makes it difficult to run out an escape path.
> 
> The other major scenario for me is cutting windfall from windstorms. Some of the ridges up in the mountains will sometimes see hurricane force winds...we ride dirtbikes on a lot of those trails and I often carry one of my top handles when clearing trail. Between the small saw and the windfall, it's an extremely dangerous practice IMO...there are some pretty crazy binds to deal with when you have a bunch of toothpicks all over a steep hillside.
> 
> Christmas last year:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't take pictures as often as I should, one of the safer cuts while out on the trail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The old set up, I've since acquired a 2511t that is now the bike saw(also mostly replaced the 201 for climbing too.)



And on the seventh day! God created the 300! 



WW2 munitions bunker. 



Front yard. 



Ride Fun, Ride Hard, Ride Off-Road!


----------



## EchoRomeoCharlie

Kodiak Kid said:


> And on the seventh day! God created the 300!
> 
> 
> 
> Ride Fun, Ride Hard, Ride Off-Road!


Nice ride!

I'm starting late at my age...but I bought a KTM 300xc-w to do some trails riding. 

Been a street rider for a long damn time...but this dirt stuff is all new. Spent 4 hours at an offroad park that had some really great single track slow technical stuff. Several trails were well over my head, but man what fun. I was sore the next day. Can't wait to get back on it.


----------



## Squareground3691

Kodiak Kid said:


> And on the seventh day! God created the 300!
> View attachment 1028857
> 
> 
> WW2 munitions bunker.
> View attachment 1028858
> 
> 
> Front yard.
> View attachment 1028859
> 
> 
> Ride Fun, Ride Hard, Ride Off-Road!


Mine doesn’t have a motor lol .


----------



## rwoods

Kodiak Kid said:


> Ha
> Hard to say for certain because Im not familiar with Ash. However, by it may be a good thing that it broke off the stump as you started your bore. If you had made it all the way through. The snag could have possibly sat down on your bar while compressing the hinge at the same time. Resulting in either not breathing off, and trapping your saw, buckling any where from the top down out of control, or simply breaking off in your intended face cut direction just like it did. All this depending on The stage of decomposition of course! That's why I don't plunge cut snags without a vertical bore test in the intended face cut area and back cut area first. I Seldom plunge cut snag's anyway. Had them go wrong a few times to many. This is all just simply my opinion bud and I'm glad it worked out for ya without mishap!
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!



Though I have experienced only one barber chair with dead ash, I typically treat them all as chair candidates. Until recently, I seldom use bore cuts. However, after watching some of the others here seemingly routinely using that method on dead ash, I recently began to use it more often as it generally keeps me to the side of the tree and less behind the tree. However, after the trigger tear-out a few Saturdays ago and yesterday's almost complete tear-out, I am reconsidering as, in effect, you are cutting the most likely to be sound portion of the tree first if you bore to set the hinge first. I doubt I will get a favored method dialed, as I am down to a few 20"+ ash. The remaining are about 10" to 15" which I wouldn't bore. 

I never say never, as there are benefits to each method, and I have a lot to learn.

Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

Kodiak Kid said:


> What happened here?View attachment 1021468
> View attachment 1021469
> 
> Dooooe!!!


----------



## woodfarmer

J D said:


> I’d say it went over backward
> 
> View attachment 1022049
> 
> This one looks to have cost you a bar (that had no business being there to get stuck in the first place), & you've had to make wedges, & it's hung up. A standard face cut & back cut would've put that over in the clear 20' to the right all day every day & maybe cost you 6" of a but log that wasn't that great in the first place.
> Food for thought...


----------



## Kodiak Kid

rwoods said:


> Though I have experienced only one barber chair with dead ash, I typically treat them all as chair candidates. Until recently, I seldom use bore cuts. However, after watching some of the others here seemingly routinely using that method on dead ash, I recently began to use it more often as it generally keeps me to the side of the tree and less behind the tree. However, after the trigger tear-out a few Saturdays ago and yesterday's almost complete tear-out, I am reconsidering as, in effect, you are cutting the most likely to be sound portion of the tree first if you bore to set the hinge first. I doubt I will get a favored method dialed, as I am down to a few 20"+ ash. The remaining are about 10" to 15" which I wouldn't bore.
> 
> I never say never, as there are benefits to each method, and I have a lot to learn.
> 
> Ron


Most definitely!  Everyone of us have more to learn because nobody knows it all, and Snags can not be taken lightly. The moment a guy thinks he has one figured out. He can often soon find out he doesn't! 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

rwoods said:


> Yesterday, I was asked to fall some hazard trees at our county shooting range in an area where they are building a sporting clay course. I left a large red oak that I deemed too hazardous to wedge.
> 
> Three larger ones from yesterday.
> 
> Red oak - will make some good firewood for the wood ministry.
> View attachment 1024764
> 
> 
> Ash - this one will also make good firewood, but notice how it tore out before I got the trigger set even though it was sound enough to fall across a ravine and take out a small tree without busting. Never trust a dead ash no matter how sound it appears.
> View attachment 1024765
> View attachment 1024766
> View attachment 1024767
> 
> 
> Another ash, I didn't have a place that provided a 45 degree rear exit so I notched the face for a little jump and I ditched the saw and ran upon committed movement. It busted all to pieces so no firewood, it will stay in the woods.
> View attachment 1024768
> 
> 
> Today, I ran a line and cut the red oak that I left yesterday. I put a little tension on the line and lightly tapped in two wedges. When the wedges loosen a bit, I tapped them snug and then pulled the tree down with my truck. This one had about 25 feet of good firewood material in the lower stem. The rest looked to be too far gone; I don't really know for sure as it was closing time and I had to scat.
> View attachment 1024769
> 
> 
> Same red oak - I took this picture as I was walking to the truck to get a magnet. The DSP valve vibrated out of my saw during the face cut. Found I had put my magnet in the wrong tool box which, of course, I had left at home. I finished cutting with an open port. Hard to beat those old MACs. I will have to come back another day to look for the valve.
> View attachment 1024770
> 
> 
> Here are a couple pictures I took yesterday at the range of some stumps made by another back in the spring. Notice the first one where the tree fell 90 degrees from the intended fall. One of the guys involved was almost hit sometime during their venture. I was called in several days later to fall some larger partially cut trees that one of them left; all had a single sloping cut as these pictured.
> View attachment 1024771
> View attachment 1024772
> View attachment 1024773
> 
> 
> Be safe,
> Ron


Just in case you were wondering Ron. People who think they know what they are doing. Produce steep sloping back cuts, because they think or read somewhere. That it is a barber chair preventer. 

ITS NOT!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

woodfarmer

In regards to the question you asked "what happened here" ?

I answer "mistakes were made!"!


----------



## weimedog

A little demonstration  And yes .. somewhat staged but works.


----------



## Sierra_rider




----------



## weimedog

Sierra_rider said:


> View attachment 1031478
> View attachment 1031480
> View attachment 1031479


You the same "sierra" over on Thumpertalk??


----------



## Sierra_rider

weimedog said:


> You the same "sierra" over on Thumpertalk??


Yep, same one.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> Tanoak is a different species than the Black oak and actually not a true oak tree. I try to learn something from every tree that doesn't go exactly to plan, but you're never going to completely remove the risk. With those trees, I just approach them like they are actively trying to kill me.
> 
> Storm damage/blowdown/windfall sucks. IMO, cutting burned/rotten hazard trees at work is a safer practice than cutting large windfall trees. The storm damage here usually happens during a snow storm, which adds another hazard. They often involve powerlines and the snow makes it difficult to run out an escape path.
> 
> The other major scenario for me is cutting windfall from windstorms. Some of the ridges up in the mountains will sometimes see hurricane force winds...we ride dirtbikes on a lot of those trails and I often carry one of my top handles when clearing trail. Between the small saw and the windfall, it's an extremely dangerous practice IMO...there are some pretty crazy binds to deal with when you have a bunch of toothpicks all over a steep hillside.
> 
> Christmas last year:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't take pictures as often as I should, one of the safer cuts while out on the trail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The old set up, I've since acquired a 2511t that is now the bike saw(also mostly replaced the 201 for climbing too.)


Did you build that saw rack on your Beta? The one on my KTM is store bought, but I fabbed one up out of aluminum for a friend. It was super easy!


----------



## Brufab

Old-Feller said:


> Here is what ours looks like! The root system is all inter-connected. Quaking aspen
> 
> View attachment 1025273


Yea I think there's 2 types here in Michigan, my wife asks me if there birch because they are almost white when the sun hits them, but we call em popple trees as slang. Quaking Aspen, big tooth Aspen or sawtooth Aspen.


----------



## Brufab

chipper1 said:


> Some large fungus on that big nasty .
> Looks like it held on long enough to get it to commit though.
> Sure wish I had one of those fancy new saws .


Who needs fancy when you have a dolmar 7900 with big bar option


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> Did you build that saw rack on your Beta? The one on my KTM is store bought, but I fabbed one up out of aluminum for a friend. It was super easy!


It's actually an Enduro Engineering saw rack, I did modify it with cutting boards and a clamp for the bar. I built my old rack, but didn't like that one as much.


----------



## Brufab

NorthernMaverick said:


> We have some stands like that too. Ours is mostly big tooth aspen, that we cut. The first pic is from this website:
> 
> https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/tree/big-tooth-aspen,
> 
> It compares quaking to big tooth. When big tooth gets mature, it gets a very rough Grey colored bark. Where we were cutting in that pic, it was a lot of individual trees mixed with hardwood and other species. And for the record I've been guilty of calling it "popple" more than once. Lol.


Great description but there all popple to me


----------



## Brufab

chipper1 said:


> Shows just how sketchy they are.
> What amazes me is while portions will be very punky, other portions that look identical are rock hard.


I agree there either steel or styrofoam


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> It's actually an Enduro Engineering saw rack, I did modify it with cutting boards and a clamp for the bar. I built my old rack, but didn't like that one as much.
> View attachment 1038927
> View attachment 1038928
> View attachment 1038929
> View attachment 1038930


Nice! I like the clamp! Im going to have to come up with one fir mine. Im always lashing my top handle down with seine twine. Being a commercial fisherman and Navy boy. I'm good with knots, so I can always secure it tight, but its a pain if I'm using the saw a lot in a day of brushing trail. Witch is usually the case in the Spring time around here!
Good on ya! Thanks fir posting pics!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> Shows just how sketchy they are.
> What amazes me is while portions will be very punky, other portions that look identical are rock hard.





Brufab said:


> I agree there either steel or styrofoam


Many species of timber have that characteristic when they becoming snags. That's one of the main reasons they are dangerous. Many people miss judge stages of decomposition. BORE TEST IT FIRST!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Swung high and dry out of the dirt!





Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

High and dry out of the dirt!





Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

High and dry out of the dirt!




Higher and dryer than anticipated! 


Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> Many species of timber have that characteristic when they becoming snags. That's one of the main reasons they are dangerous. Many people miss judge stages of decomposition. BORE TEST IT FIRST!


That doesn't help at all on ash, where you bore could be 100% solid, then there will be one soft spot half way up, 3/4 of the way up, or right at the ground. Ash are fairly easy to judge just based on the size of branches left and how much bark is left, but exactly what portion will break out when they start to move, not as easy. Best bet is don't trust them 100% of the time when they are dead.
I have an 18-20" ash at a friend's that's a yard tree to remove, this last summer it still had growth on it, while it should be just fine, I won't be driving wedges to get it to the lay, it will get a rope and a nice tug with one of his skid steers .


----------



## weimedog




----------



## weimedog




----------



## weimedog




----------



## weimedog




----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> That doesn't help at all on ash, where you bore could be 100% solid, then there will be one soft spot half way up, 3/4 of the way up, or right at the ground. Ash are fairly easy to judge just based on the size of branches left and how much bark is left, but exactly what portion will break out when they start to move, not as easy. Best bet is don't trust them 100% of the time when they are dead.
> I have an 18-20" ash at a friend's that's a yard tree to remove, this last summer it still had growth on it, while it should be just fine, I won't be driving wedges to get it to the lay, it will get a rope and a nice tug with one of his skid steers .


Yes Chipper! Many snags can be exactly like that. All depending on stages of decomp. Solid here, soft there, solid here, soft there. But when it comes to snags I don't take anything for granted. Any one who trusts any snag 100% of the time? Has no clue what he is doing! I never judge one just by looking at it, or assume anything, but after felling "thousands" of snags.  Thats probably why Im STIHL alive! If we assume? We just make an "ass" out of U "m" E! 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## rwoods

I’m not in the thousands category, but in my experience a snag is, metaphorically speaking, 100% bent on trying to find a way to hurt you.

Ron


----------



## Brufab

I was always under the impression that a snag was a tree that was hung up in another tree? From what I'm reading it's just a tree that is rotten or compromised in spots? Is that correct? Thanks fellas


----------



## lloyd786

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Stumps you're proud of, stumps you're not so proud of, post them up! We can learn a lot from them. Tell the story if you wish.
> 
> I'll start with one I'm proud of. This was a moderate/heavy leaner over power lines. I was really close to telling them to get someone with a bucket, but decided to fall it. Natural lay was directly into the power lines and the tips of the branches were over the 4 lines by about 5 or so feet. I set a line opposite the lean and tensioned up to take a bit of weight off of it. Because I had to fall it further than 90º to clear the lines I set a pull rope in it about 3/4 the way up. Set a block with a loopie on a sturdy tree and hooked the end to my truck. I had a window of about 30' to put the tree before it got into some trees we didn't want to bust up. Big area for a straight tree...looks really tiny with a big ol lean lol.
> 
> Made an open face cut to keep it on the stump as long as possible, made the back cut to a thick hinge, set a wedge, and nibbled while the driver kept steady pressure on it. She went down perfectly no drama.





EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Stumps you're proud of, stumps you're not so proud of, post them up! We can learn a lot from them. Tell the story if you wish.
> 
> I'll start with one I'm proud of. This was a moderate/heavy leaner over power lines. I was really close to telling them to get someone with a bucket, but decided to fall it. Natural lay was directly into the power lines and the tips of the branches were over the 4 lines by about 5 or so feet. I set a line opposite the lean and tensioned up to take a bit of weight off of it. Because I had to fall it further than 90º to clear the lines I set a pull rope in it about 3/4 the way up. Set a block with a loopie on a sturdy tree and hooked the end to my truck. I had a window of about 30' to put the tree before it got into some trees we didn't want to bust up. Big area for a straight tree...looks really tiny with a big ol lean lol.
> 
> Made an open face cut to keep it on the stump as long as possible, made the back cut to a thick hinge, set a wedge, and nibbled while the driver kept steady pressure on it. She went down perfectly no drama.


Big oak a couple years back, hung over house, wires, deck, fence. Rigged every bit down.


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## lloyd786

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Stumps you're proud of, stumps you're not so proud of, post them up! We can learn a lot from them. Tell the story if you wish.
> 
> I'll start with one I'm proud of. This was a moderate/heavy leaner over power lines. I was really close to telling them to get someone with a bucket, but decided to fall it. Natural lay was directly into the power lines and the tips of the branches were over the 4 lines by about 5 or so feet. I set a line opposite the lean and tensioned up to take a bit of weight off of it. Because I had to fall it further than 90º to clear the lines I set a pull rope in it about 3/4 the way up. Set a block with a loopie on a sturdy tree and hooked the end to my truck. I had a window of about 30' to put the tree before it got into some trees we didn't want to bust up. Big area for a straight tree...looks really tiny with a big ol lean lol.
> 
> Made an open face cut to keep it on the stump as long as possible, made the back cut to a thick hinge, set a wedge, and nibbled while the driver kept steady pressure on it. She went down perfectly no drama.


Catalpa we did this summer, son and daughter and of course the border collie in on the action, gorgeous wood after milling.


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## Brufab

That's some huge  man


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## Sierra_rider

Brufab said:


> I was always under the impression that a snag was a tree that was hung up in another tree? From what I'm reading it's just a tree that is rotten or compromised in spots? Is that correct? Thanks fellas


Snag is just a dead, hazardous tree.


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## Brufab

Sierra_rider said:


> Snag is just a dead, hazardous tree.


Thanks SR. Much appreciated


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## lloyd786

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Stumps you're proud of, stumps you're not so proud of, post them up! We can learn a lot from them. Tell the story if you wish.
> 
> I'll start with one I'm proud of. This was a moderate/heavy leaner over power lines. I was really close to telling them to get someone with a bucket, but decided to fall it. Natural lay was directly into the power lines and the tips of the branches were over the 4 lines by about 5 or so feet. I set a line opposite the lean and tensioned up to take a bit of weight off of it. Because I had to fall it further than 90º to clear the lines I set a pull rope in it about 3/4 the way up. Set a block with a loopie on a sturdy tree and hooked the end to my truck. I had a window of about 30' to put the tree before it got into some trees we didn't want to bust up. Big area for a straight tree...looks really tiny with a big ol lean lol.
> 
> Made an open face cut to keep it on the stump as long as possible, made the back cut to a thick hinge, set a wedge, and nibbled while the driver kept steady pressure on it. She went down perfectly no drama.


Another big catalpa, we did for a good friend. Woul not have done for anyone else. Touching primary power, I could feel a tingle while climbing and setting lines. He passed about 2 months later, 
what a waste. Great guy. I’ll have to make something for him from the lumber.


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## Maintenance supervisor

Brufab said:


> Thanks SR. Much appreciated


Limb tied, limb bound, or a "logger suicide " tree is what we call the dead ones leaning on another. 
A longtime ago I was in charge of dropping a premium white oak for milling on site in the mountains. The perfect tree had an 80" dead pine leaning against the top ofcourse. I had a friend of mine who was a professional arborist and timber faller with me . I told him I couldn't keep an eye on both trees so when I cut it and the pine moves tap me to move to escape. 
This fellow was built like corded steel, he got nervous when the pine started going after I got the oak moving, when he grabbed my shoulder I went straight to the ground! He was so strong I think his fingers came together under my skin! Anyway he just took off with me and never broke pace.


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## Maintenance supervisor

80foot I meant not 80"


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## rwoods

Hung up trees want to hurt you too.

Ron


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## Kodiak Kid

rwoods said:


> I’m not in the thousands category, but in my experience a snag is, metaphorically speaking, 100% bent on trying to find a way to hurt you.
> 
> Ron


Well said, metaphorically.


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## Kodiak Kid

Brufab said:


> I was always under the impression that a snag was a tree that was hung up in another tree? From what I'm reading it's just a tree that is rotten or compromised in spots? Is that correct? Thanks fellas


Cutters or Fallers (same thing) call a tree hung up in another a "Hanger". 
Example "Will you give me some advice on this hanger I have in my strip" 
Example "strong winds sheard a top (tree top) into another last night in my strip. Now I gotta hanger Im gonna deal with"

"Hung up" is typically when a standing tree or snag sits down on your saw bar while executing felling cuts. Thus trapping it in a bind usually the back cut, but it can sometimes happen during your gunning cut too. It normally dosent happen often at all during your under cut (Humboldt face).

Or if you bind up your bar while bucking or limbing

Example "Will you come cut me out? I'm hung up in a buck"

Just some terminology fir ya! Hope this helps.


Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Kodiak Kid

rwoods said:


> Hung up trees want to hurt you too.
> 
> Ron


Any tree! Live, dead, or hanging can possibly kill someone that disturbs it by cutting it down, or trying to cut it down!

90% of the time. The very most dangerous timber to cut has already been Fell by her herself Mother Nature. Wind Fall Patches!!! "Blow Down" Im not talking one or two or three. Im talking a grove of timber uprooted, crossed, twist loaded, spring loaded, and all tangled amongst one another tied in knots! Even the most experienced master level Cutters dare to cut Blow Down Patches. Fresh live Blow Down is typically more loaded than really old dead Blow Down. I emphasize "typically" and "really old"!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Kodiak Kid

Even though dead, 90% of the snags in this photo are STIHL pretty sound "FOR A SNAG!". Infact, some of them can STIHL be sawed into lumber, However, they are all dangerously compromised  in one way or another if you know what you're looking at. Especially the ones that STIHL hold their tops!



Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## StihlPotlicker

Squareground3691 said:


> Mine doesn’t have a motor lol .


it could just mount a chainsaw up to itLOL


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## StihlPotlicker

weimedog said:


> CLEAN off Your Stumps... Hobby farm stuff because inevitable they will "bite" you in the future if they are left long.



Ya I learned that the hard way. i was skidding out treetops from a log job yrs. ago. i was just married and cutting up tops and selling firewood. those skidders have more ground clearance than a 70hp tractor lol. I was pulling out last hitch of the night (borrowed a tractor and skidding winch from my dad) and I had to drive on a nice stump, well it was a bit wet, and tire slid off and the steps of the tractor got hung up on the stump, mind you this tractor was only 3wks old. so, I had to cut the stump without hitting the tire with chainsaw. so long story short I got out of the woods late and get down to the house and explain that I destroyed the steps for his tractor. He said I wondered why you were cutting after dark.

those tractor winches come in handy for skidding out logs.


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## weimedog

Winch going back on next week as I have to go BACK to this area I logged last year


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## woodfarmer

Kodiak Kid said:


> Any tree! Live, dead, or hanging can possibly kill someone that disturbs it by cutting it down, or trying to cut it down!
> 
> 90% of the time. The very most dangerous timber to cut has already been Fell by her herself Mother Nature. Wind Fall Patches!!! "Blow Down" Im not talking one or two or three. Im talking a grove of timber uprooted, crossed, twist loaded, spring loaded, and all tangled amongst one another tied in knots! Even the most experienced master level Cutters dare to cut Blow Down Patches. Fresh live Blow Down is typically more loaded than really old dead Blow Down. I emphasize "typically" and "really old"!
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


Now try cutting it when covered with freezing rain!


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## Kodiak Kid

woodfarmer said:


> Now try cutting it when covered with freezing rain!


None of it! Is any fun to say the least!


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## rwoods

While we are running the snag rabbit in a stump thread, let me add that a solo storm downed snag can be like finding gold.

I hadn't planned to cut today due to family duties, but thought I had enough time to go to the county firing range and skid out an old dead storm downed red oak - some firewood gold that I found a few Saturdays ago. My wife asked me to get her some small "logs" for some Christmas decoration while I was out so I took my 500i with me as it was the only saw with a sharp chain.

As planned, I pulled out a 35' long well seasoned butt section and then carried the remaining 14' section while pulling a fresher red oak top. I used my tractor as the trees were in a little draw that was flat enough for it.



My wife's request required me to go up the hill. While fulfilling it, I noticed a dead ash so I put it on the ground, then another one appeared then another one, before I knew it I had cut a half dozen or so - several had 30' to 45' of good firewood stem. I will skid them with the crawler another day. Anyway, back to storm downed snags of gold - during all of the ash felling, I spotted a nice storm down red oak. It was 24" where I cut off the top leaving 55' to 60' of nice straight limb-less stem to my anticipated stump cut - a lot of firewood gold!

I left it on the stump as it is balanced on a rock ledge and shouldn't be sectioned due to the side slope. It is heavy enough to take any of my equipment with it so I will have to wait until the county gets the track tensioner repaired on the JD750 that they let me use. Hard to see in the picture, the rock ledge is about 6' tall where it just catches the top of the stem. The way the land lays with its ridges and draws, I can get within 75' with the JD750 and be on relatively flat ground.



To return this thread to stump shots, below is the largest diameter stem that I have felled (it was 9 1/2 years ago so I don't remember the precise size but it was a little over 6' at the cut) - a storm damaged red oak snag.






Accidentally using my 036Pro as a chock.



These last pictures are from 2012 - my most challenging storm snag and ugliest stump - also a red oak.






To be continued.

Be safe,
Ron


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## rwoods

Be safe,
Ron


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## Kodiak Kid

Just another Spruce stick tipped fir firewood. 



Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Kodiak Kid

rwoods said:


> Today I felled another hazard tree while at the range. This dead ash didn't even wait for the back cut. It cracked just as I started a bore to set the hinge. About 6" deep with the tip and the tree let go. I will be glad when I am done. Every trip there I spot at least two more. My backlog keeps growing; currently it is more than a dozen.
> 
> No back cut, just the beginnning of a bore.
> View attachment 1028683
> 
> 
> Bore
> View attachment 1028684
> 
> 
> Possibly some firewood up from the stump.
> View attachment 1028685
> 
> 
> Cleared area will soon be open to public. Thus this tree had to go.
> View attachment 1028686
> 
> 
> Be safe,
> Ron


Your Ash looks very similar to our black cotton wood. Sounds like decomposition is similar also.


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## rwoods

I am only familiar with cottonwood through AS postings so I may be wrong - contrary to cottonwood, ash is a strong hard hardwood used for baseball bats and handles among other things. Heat-wise it makes good firewood.

The decomposition may be similar, I don’t know. It reminds me of poplar. Most poplar seems to rot quickly but every now and then you’ll find a downed bark less stem that is hard as a rock. I have heard some who equate cottonwood with poplar, but there seems to be an overlap in terminology. Our clear poplar is used for furniture and trim.

Ron


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## Kodiak Kid

Another Spruce stick.  Tipped fir toasty house heat high and dry! 



Many would argue that I'm a lousy shot fir hitting stumps and breaking wood. Actually, quite the contrary. When it comes to firewood snags. I tip them across stumps on purpose to keep them out of the grass and dirt. They stay dryer if it rains before I get all the wood hauled out and it makes bucking much easier and faster! 


This snag brushed by a rotten stob on its way down. Leaving a small branch hanging in the stob as a reminder to always wear a hard hat when cut'n timber! Though this hanger is somewhat light and small. (I emfasise "somewhat") Even at this hight. It can easily injure you. With or without a brain bucket! Another 80' or 100' foot higher hanging in a taller tree? It would then be a potential widow maker and possibly break your neck if it hit you just right! An object coming down on you from 100 foot or higher?
DOESN'T NEED MUCH WEIGHT BEHIND IT TO BREAK A NECK!
You must keep your head up not only when tipping, but when working next to and under other timber as well! This stob should have been tipped before the snag. However, I decided to leave it for wildlife after bore testing it. Then fell the snag. Honestly, it might not have been a good call on my behalf. Decomp stages are uncertain higher up the trunk, and the trunks integrity may have been compromised even more after being brushed by the tipped snag. Possibly to the edge of "The Breaking Point"
You must never assume anything when dealing with and working around snaggs and rotten stobs. I made the wrong decision and it could have had high costs. Lucky it didn't.
Lucky! 

Many Cutters take more risks than others! The ones that do have a higher risk at getting themselves seriously injured or perhaps killed!

WE ALL MUST!!!
Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


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## Bill G

rwoods said:


> I am only familiar with cottonwood through AS postings so I may be wrong - contrary to cottonwood, ash is a strong hard hardwood used for baseball bats and handles among other things. Heat-wise it makes good firewood.
> 
> The decomposition may be similar, I don’t know. It reminds me of poplar. Most poplar seems to rot quickly but every now and then you’ll find a downed bark less stem that is hard as a rock. I have heard some who equate cottonwood with poplar, but there seems to be an overlap in terminology. Our clear poplar is used for furniture and trim.
> 
> Ron


Poplar used as trim needs to be paint grade. It will not stain well at all. Cottonwood will never finish well and is crate/pallet lumber. Ash is hard and works well *when* cut and dried right. It will get "punky" like any other


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## singinwoodwackr

Kodiak Kid said:


> Just another Spruce stick tipped fir firewood. View attachment 1039641
> View attachment 1039642
> 
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


Gravy cutting’


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## Kodiak Kid

@singinwoodwackr Somewhat! The gravy is never creamed 100% when tipping Snags. I don't care what anyone says, and Snags are one thing I don't joke about!


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## Bill G

Kodiak Kid said:


> Somewhat! The gravy is never creamed 100% when tipping Snags. I don't care what anyone says, and Snags are one thing I don't joke about!


Dead wood is tough to read. I have quite a few marked here in various stages of decay that I was looking at Friday night. They will not be simple drops. I wonder how some folks think you wedge a 56"dbh that is hollow as hell.


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## pining_fir_yew

weimedog said:


> View attachment 872622


Wholesome/10


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## alanbaker

Bill G said:


> Dead wood is tough to read. I have quite a few marked here in various stages of decay that I was looking at Friday night. They will not be simple drops. I wonder how some folks think you wedge a 56"dbh that is hollow as hell.





Bill G said:


> Poplar used as trim needs to be paint grade. It will not stain well at all. Cottonwood will never finish well and is crate/pallet lumber. Ash is hard and works well *when* cut and dried right. It will get "punky" like any other



Poplar that is sold in hardware stores is tulip poplar, not the same genus as cottonwood, quaking Aspen, or big tooth aspen


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## Bill G

alanbaker said:


> Poplar that is sold in hardware stores is tulip poplar, not the same genus as cottonwood, quaking Aspen, or big tooth aspen


Well I never said Poplar was the same as Cottonwood. There is no real relation between the two. I have never bought lumber at a hardware store so I cannot speak to that. We bought it by the 1000' bd/ft lot


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