# vertical speed-lining when it counts



## murphy4trees (May 3, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWRoASX9Q4c

this was a fun job from yesterday...


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## murphy4trees (May 9, 2011)

no replies... WHAT UP A.S.?


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## treemandan (May 9, 2011)

murphy4trees said:


> no replies... WHAT UP A.S.?


 
Terribly sorry to leave you hanging Murph. I figured, which I suspect the rest of us did, that you allready knew you are the man and anything anybody could say would be redundant to that fact.

BUT! In all honesty I didn't see any verticle speed line. I saw you had rigged the butt of one of those tops for some reason. I was going to ask what that reason was but I got distracted.


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## BlackOakTreeServ (May 9, 2011)

murphy4trees said:


> no replies... WHAT UP A.S.?



Ya, I thought there would be more commits from the AS peanut gallery! :msp_ohmy:

Murphy, Good vids, keep em coming.


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## murphy4trees (May 10, 2011)

Dan,
There were two of the three cuts that used a VSL. I didn't want the buts swingin away from the trunk, they would then get "straight" and could fall in any direction 360º.. Should have used it on the second, much smaller cut too, as that one did come back 180º to the lay..


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## treemandan (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, well, you sure were in the thick of it sending out the one bigger top. I see you rigged the butt to help keep it off of you but I don't see how it could have helped. 
Since the butt line was a running line I guess somebody had to be letting it run, it wouldn't have taken much for that top to come at you butt tied or not. Also since it was a running butt line I think the term speedline wasn't proper.
In fact, it didn't seem like any of what you did could be called a speedline. Take for instance the holly: I mean that was a straight - up yank. Probably set up for other purpose as well though not a speed line.
Personally, though the video was cool, you were really putting yourself in the eye of the hurricane. I would think if you wanted to set a line to keep a butt like that coming at you the best way is to use somekind of static rig job and make sure your pull on the top rope is good.
Anyway...


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## tree MDS (May 10, 2011)

Damn murph! never let your pants get all highwater looking like that! What if there's a good looking female somewhere in the woods watching? gotta look cool too ya know! 

Other than that, stay safe and don't get a breast caught in that micropulley of yours! 

Oh, and why not just go up a little higher in them oak tops?


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## treeman75 (May 10, 2011)

I like watching your vids. That speed line was neat but the time it took to set up you could of cut that little thing. I suppose it helped not to damage any flowers. By the way congrats on your letter to TCIA on ground man and climber safety!


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## murphy4trees (May 11, 2011)

Holly was just for fun and a good shot.. VSL was only on the 2 oak leads. Because the tips were going to hang up in the adjacent trees, it was important to make good cuts, to keep the butts from kicking back over the cuts at the climber (me).. It was only the cuts that kept that from happening, not the VSL.. the VSL came into play as the pieces dropped off the cuts.. becasue the tops were goign to hang up, the buts would have swung away from the trunk, directly under or past the tops. That would have been a problem, if those pieces got straight, they could have fallen anywhere, 360º, and most likely would have come back at the climber (me).. This actually happened on the second cut, which was much smaller. In retrospect, I woudl have taken the extra few seconds to set up that sling.. 

Note the VSL was set up quickly uising a $3 shackle and all other throw away lines and one sling. Simply tie an old piece of line at the top and bottom, then a short sling was tied to the butt of the leads, and attached to the vetical line with the shackle.. No one ran the ropes. It would have been very difficult and necessary to rig that tree as it was set up on a steep hill directly over a nice dogwood. Running a regular speed line would have taken a lot more time. I was up and down in under an hour.. 




treemandan said:


> Yeah, well, you sure were in the thick of it sending out the one bigger top. I see you rigged the butt to help keep it off of you but I don't see how it could have helped.
> Since the butt line was a running line I guess somebody had to be letting it run, it wouldn't have taken much for that top to come at you butt tied or not. Also since it was a running butt line I think the term speedline wasn't proper.
> In fact, it didn't seem like any of what you did could be called a speedline. Take for instance the holly: I mean that was a straight - up yank. Probably set up for other purpose as well though not a speed line.
> Personally, though the video was cool, you were really putting yourself in the eye of the hurricane. I would think if you wanted to set a line to keep a butt like that coming at you the best way is to use somekind of static rig job and make sure your pull on the top rope is good.
> Anyway...


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## tree MDS (May 11, 2011)

I remember hearing something once about the most dangerous climbers being greenhorns, and the guys that have been at it too long.. 

Anybody that's impressed by that show of recklessness, most likely doesn't know wtf they're talking about. Sorry murph, just being honest here.


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## limbwalker54 (May 11, 2011)

Oh!

Ok Murph its not that clear that you were tying a short piece of rope to the butt....
So it looked like someone let a rope run with a butt hitch attached.....speed line wasn't that visible....

I get it now after you explained it. 

However, doesn't it seem risky to have done that solo without a top line to make sure that baby didn't do a backflip into you as it hit tension on the VLS?

-Mike


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## limbwalker54 (May 12, 2011)

BTW treeMDS, no impression here...just observing the techniques (whether good or bad) and formulating questions based on that observation.


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## treemandan (May 12, 2011)

murphy4trees said:


> Holly was just for fun and a good shot.. VSL was only on the 2 oak leads. Because the tips were going to hang up in the adjacent trees, it was important to make good cuts, to keep the butts from kicking back over the cuts at the climber (me).. It was only the cuts that kept that from happening, not the VSL.. the VSL came into play as the pieces dropped off the cuts.. becasue the tops were goign to hang up, the buts would have swung away from the trunk, directly under or past the tops. That would have been a problem, if those pieces got straight, they could have fallen anywhere, 360º, and most likely would have come back at the climber (me).. This actually happened on the second cut, which was much smaller. In retrospect, I woudl have taken the extra few seconds to set up that sling..
> 
> Note the VSL was set up quickly uising a $3 shackle and all other throw away lines and one sling. Simply tie an old piece of line at the top and bottom, then a short sling was tied to the butt of the leads, and attached to the vetical line with the shackle.. No one ran the ropes. It would have been very difficult and necessary to rig that tree as it was set up on a steep hill directly over a nice dogwood. Running a regular speed line would have taken a lot more time. I was up and down in under an hour..


 
An hour? Took you that long? You musta been sleepy.


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## treemandan (May 12, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Damn murph! never let your pants get all highwater looking like that! What if there's a good looking female somewhere in the woods watching? gotta look cool too ya know!
> 
> Other than that, stay safe and don't get a breast caught in that micropulley of yours!
> 
> Oh, and why not just go up a little higher in them oak tops?


 
Why not higher? Well it seems that Murph has adopted the Midas slogan to be condusive to him, he says, " I'm NOT gonna climb any higher for this top ! " Ahh, the power of context ! Its working wonders!


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## murphy4trees (May 13, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> I remember hearing something once about the most dangerous climbers being greenhorns, and the guys that have been at it too long..
> 
> Anybody that's impressed by that show of recklessness, most likely doesn't know wtf they're talking about. Sorry murph, just being honest here.


 
One man's recklessness is another man's genius.. I would have changed a couple things if I had to do it over.. Could have easily put a sling and shackle on that second piece. And Could have easily moved to the other side of the tree before releasing the backstrap cut on the third cut. That would have put me behind the little stub from the second cut and well out of harms way..

As it was, I trusted my cuts to keep those buts from coming back over the top, which worked very well. Though the last cut looks like a fairly wide humboldt, it was a narrow humboldt with a partial snipe. See Fundamentals of General Treework pg 306.. 

I consider the entire process a valuable learning experieince.. The VSL worked perfectly as I had visioned it.. Its a very nice way of keeping those pieces falling to the lay.. and the mistakes were a free lessons..

If you don't know how to control the buts when pieces hang up, then its a dangerous situation. Any west coast faller would be able to handle that easily.. The real problem is that the vast majority of pro arborists in the US have no more than a rudimentary understanding of tree falling..


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## tree MDS (May 13, 2011)

You're lucky that smaller one that got hung up, didn't go through one of your breasts... especially with that horrible positioning you had goin' on there. Looked like you could barely control your 200 either... maybe it was just dull (hard to tell). Was that cut supposed to be this "humbolt with a snipe", like you read about too?? I did notice how you tried to play it cool, while you spiked up into proper positioning to kick off the butt though. Nice.


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## husabud (May 14, 2011)

Ironic that this vid is on the same page as Murph?

YouTube - No sir, I didn't like it.

Have you ever used a TIP other than your flipline? Or vice-versa?

Swingin like a monkey with a chainsaw, fun maybe but safe?


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## tree MDS (May 14, 2011)

Hahahaha... I had forgotten all about that horse! 

Hey murph, what happened to Pat anyway? that dude seemed pretty good..


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## murphy4trees (May 14, 2011)

I do not argue with idiots


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## husabud (May 14, 2011)

High and mighty is a great place to be when your lookin in a mirror. If you're throwin jabs, keep them to yourself. I've said before and I'll say it again, you show great skill at what you do, You just don't do things the way most Arborists would. More power too ya and keep up the videos.


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## fishercat (May 16, 2011)

*I have to agree with MDS.*

Climbing a little higher seems like the logical thing to do.


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## flushcut (May 21, 2011)

Hay Matt heres a bump.


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## FanOFatherNash (May 23, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> You're lucky that smaller one that got hung up, didn't go through one of your breasts...


 
:msp_w00t:


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## prentice110 (Jul 4, 2011)

What a display. 2 ?'s. #1. Why you gotta make the peices so GD big? #2. Do you have any respect for the trees your working next to? Dont even try to lie and say there wasnt any cambium rub off, not to mention broken twigs , branches, and possibly (altho none I could see) hangers. You are just plain reckless, and possibly lazy, or just a weird show off. You remind of Biel. Nice kick tho, I do that every now and then.opcorn:


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## tree MDS (Jul 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> What a display. 2 ?'s. #1. Why you gotta make the peices so GD big? #2. Do you have any respect for the trees your working next to? Dont even try to lie and say there wasnt any cambium rub off, not to mention broken twigs , branches, and possibly (altho none I could see) hangers. You are just plain reckless, and possibly lazy, or just a weird show off. You remind of Biel. Nice kick tho, I do that every now and then.opcorn:


 
Looks like the kind of thing that happens with massive underbids. The sad thing is, I doubt that's what's going on here. I think murph has either lost respect for the game, or never had it in the first place. definitely has a big set though! lol.


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## murphy4trees (Jul 5, 2011)

I put $1,300 on that tree, part of a $3K job, that was a very competitive bid, in a tight market, flooded with hungry, well equipped competitors, against 4 or more other bids.

Tree was on the ground in 45 minutes.. Took longer to put a $300 cable in another tree...

There was surprisingly little damage to the one adjacent tree.. one small broken stick, less than an inch, and some minor bark damage on the top of to the lowest limb. None of which will effect the long term health of the adjacent tree. After making these tree vids for the last two years, the way to tell if branches (either of the falling limb or adjacent tree) get broken is to listen for the snap crackle and pop. Anything big will always be heard as a loud pop. There was none, and nothing more than floating leaves in the picture.... The tree in question was later pruned to deadwood...

I'll give you some credit cause Dave says so... You can call it reckless, or lucky, or whatever. I call it good... It was fast, effective, safe, and profitable... and best of all........................ made a great video! LOL

oh ya... and to answer the first question... pieces were cut so big in part to allow the tips to clear the woods, and get out onto the lawn, which keeps us out of the woods.. I limit exposure to deer ticks, which are a major health threat, whenever possible... the woods were also a steep uphill from the lawn, which would have been a difficult work zone for the groundies.. And I always take stuff as big as can be done safely and efficiently.. Bigger is better (within reason) if you know what you are doing... You know that!


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## Scrat (Jul 5, 2011)

Murph,
As much as there may may be some "great new technique" or "One man's recklessness is another man's genius" as you put it in what you are doing there appears to be a consistant blatant disregard for established "safe practices" in what you depict in your videos. I am not here to condemn but rather suggest you watch and carefully edit out the unsafe stuff. I am sure the last thing you want is to find out someone got hurt trying to duplicate your techniques. I am sorry but it appears you had only one tie in point while running a chainsaw and with your line right in the kickback zone. Hey This business is dangerous enough....I don't want to see any get hurt including you. We should all make an effort to display safe practices if we are going to share it on the web.

Best
Scrat


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## murphy4trees (Jul 5, 2011)

The single tie in is a good observation and may seem like a bad example or a violation of the ansi standards... BUT its not.... I had two tie-ins on the second and third cuts.. it was only the first cut that I was working on a single tie in.. If you read the ANSI standards carefully, it clearly says that when an authorized person judges it to be safer to be working with a single tie in, that such is permissible. In this case the single tie in was a clear and conscious choice I made, given the scenario, cut, body position and tie in point... should that top have come back at me, I'd have been able to kick off the tree and away from the falling piece, fairly easily, BUT only without the lanyard holding me to the tree.. The second cut, didn't pose much of a threat IMO, and my climbing line was coming around the trunk, giving me a poor rope angle, so kicking off wasn't much of an option anyhow.. the third cut had my lanyard and climb line in placed together around the tree.. 

Though I disagree with your generalization: "appears to be a consistent blatant disregard for established "safe practices" ", my mind is open to your opinion and I'll check on any other apparent "violations", if you can point them out. I'd appreciate it... The lack of a second tie in point is a valid point of discussion, and I believe that all this type of discussion promotes thinking and a greater safety awareness in our industry. So thank you for bringing it up... And I generally give people a little more credit than thinking that they are going to get hurt, trying to do what they see on youtube... Though that is a consideration. I think the advancements in understanding and development of skills etc., that can come from these videos, provide enough benefit to far outweigh the downside..

Thanks for you good attitude and nature and true concern. Keep it coming..







Scrat said:


> Murph,
> As much as there may may be some "great new technique" or "One man's recklessness is another man's genius" as you put it in what you are doing there appears to be a consistant blatant disregard for established "safe practices" in what you depict in your videos. I am not here to condemn but rather suggest you watch and carefully edit out the unsafe stuff. I am sure the last thing you want is to find out someone got hurt trying to duplicate your techniques. I am sorry but it appears you had only one tie in point while running a chainsaw and with your line right in the kickback zone. Hey This business is dangerous enough....I don't want to see any get hurt including you. We should all make an effort to display safe practices if we are going to share it on the web.
> 
> Best
> Scrat


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## FanOFatherNash (Jul 6, 2011)

Murph, 

Could you point out one mistake you made in this video? Looking back could you say "I should have done this instead " ?


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## murphy4trees (Jul 6, 2011)

FanOFatherNash said:


> Murph,
> 
> Could you point out one mistake you made in this video? Looking back could you say "I should have done this instead " ?



First mistake was not using the VSL on the second cut.. the short tether/sling I was using would have been long enough, so it was going to be quick and easy to set up. As it turned out, it took longer to dig that piece out of the woods with the skid loader than it would have to set that rigging up.. A LOT longer.. And if the skid steer was not available, it would have really sucked.. Lesson learned..

The second, and much more grevious mistake IMO, was not changing my position before finishing the last cut... The last cut was a plunge cut with back release, so I could have easily moved my body over to the far side of the trunk, directly under the large stub, before triggering the back release. That stub would have then acted as a guardian angel, preventing any possibility of the but pushing back into me.. AS it was, the cut itself was made well enough to keep the piece from coming back over the top at me. BUT.. for as easy as it would have been to move to the far side of the trunk, it would have been well worth the added protection.. Lesson learned..

3rd mistake was not taking the time to sharpen the saw before I went up.. The saw was cutting OK, but I would have made those larger cuts a little steeper and deeper if it was cutting the way it should have been.


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## Timothyjkent (Sep 8, 2011)

The thing I really noticed was the slow motion of that big piece coming back at you before heading down. You were lucky on that one. Too shallow of a notch in my opinion. But you do have skills, no doubt about that.


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