# Another Beach Milling (Mis-)Adventure



## Daninvan (Apr 1, 2014)

Off to the city log dump down at the beach this morning. I had scoped out some cherry and a Port Orford cedar log the other day. Turns out someone else had their eyes on the cherry as well and had put their mark over my mark. That's not playing nice! The guy who runs the loader is on my side, so it turned out to be no problem. I picked a Port Orford cedar log and a small cherry log. 

It was a gorgeous morning, too bad none of my milling buddies were able to join me. I got all the great weather and all the wood for myself!







People sometimes wonder how I can tell what kind of wood a log is when it is sitting in a big pile with nothing but the bark and the end-grain to look at. 

Big pile of logs - what is what?





In reality, I can't tell for the most part. But I can tell the ones that I am interested in, mostly from the bark. Often times the smell is a big clue as well. In the photo below, the log on the left is Port Orford cedar, which I can identify through the bark being rougher than the other cedars I might see here (red and Monterey and if I am lucky yellow), and the one on the right is cherry which I can identify by sight. In this case the cherry had some rot in the middle so I left it and milled up a different one. Sometimes I confuse cherry and birch when looking at the bark, but the end grain often tells the difference, cherry being much darker and having a sweet fragrance. 





This is an end shot of the PO cedar. Normally I wouldn't touch a log with the pith offset like this with a 10 foot pole. However, this is going to wind up most likely as veneer, so reaction wood does not matter. I milled it in this orientation, but I realized part way through that if I rotated it 90 degrees I might have gotten more quartersawn material. This log is a bit of a puzzle to me, it was way too big to be a branch, so I don't know why the tree would be so straight, but have such an offset pith.





The city worker who runs the loader is unbelievably accommodating. He dipped both the logs in the water for me since they had quite a bit of sand on them from sitting on the beach for a while! He also sets them up on an angle for me so I can mill downhill. Definitely owe him a case of beer or three. 

PO Cedar.










Once the logs are set up the first thing I do is peel off the bark to get any remaining sand off. I also like to take a cookie off each end to get rid of any cracks that may have formed, as well as any sand embedded in the end grain. I don't always take a cookie off, sometimes I am just too eager to get milling! Today I did on both logs, here is the cedar again. 





I know a lot of guys like to use ladders and U channel and a bunch of different things to guide their first cut. Me, I nail on a 2x8. This is on the cherry.





Since I only took one mill with me today, I planned to do the first cut on both logs at about 6". Then I would adjust the mill to a 2 1/2" cut (my preferred thickness) and go to town! Here I am stopped in the cedar's first cut.






Then about 30 seconds after I took this photo I hit something bad in the log. Teeth were insta-dull. So I took the mill out, sharpened the teeth, and clever guy that I am, came in from the other side figuring I could get right to whatever it was. Sawing uphill was kind of tough, but I got to within about 6" of where the first cut stopped, and again progress halted. So I figured, the log must be loaded with metal. I got out my crosscutting saw and cut off the two portions of the piece that I had milled, then took an axe and chopped out the rest. Guess what - no metal in the log! Whuuut?





Hmmm. so I sharpened the saw up again, and started in on the cherry. Same thing, progress died after about a foot. At this point the little lightbulb in my head flashed on, and I realized that there was a problem with my saw or my mill. So this time I moved the mill over to my crosscutting saw and finished up the cut no problem with it. You can really see the difference in the quality of the cut. 





So progress was good from this point. I Cut 5 PO cedar slabs and 4 cherry slabs at 2 1/2" thick. That is my preferred thickness as it can be air dried here in two years, resawn to any thickness, and is also a good thickness for my bowl-turning buddy to turn patters with. I also find that cutting much thinner slabs results in more warping, and is of course more work since you will get more slabs from a given log. While much thicker slabs tend to crack more while drying, and can be too heavy to move around comfortably. This is of course a gross simplification. 

The cedar yielded some decent material. I was looking for straight grain, so there was a bit more rustinc stuff here than I would like, but it can be cut out easily enough.





The cherry was pretty crappy as it had a number of deep cracks. The only reason I persisted with it was that it was a flowering cherry and I was able to get the graft union. You can see the difference in the two woods pretty clearly.






So here they all are loaded up into the mighty Subaru. I am getting smart, I use a liner now since my wife expects me to clean the car before I return it to her!





I think it might have been one of the nicest days milling ever, weather-wise. Equipment wise though,k it was one of the worst. I wound up sharpening 5 times, have a bum saw I need to diagnose, and seemed to spend half the time fiddling with one thing or another.


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## 4x4American (Apr 1, 2014)

Awesome scenery!

Husqvarna...making mechanics out of owners since 1959


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## john taliaferro (Apr 1, 2014)

That is a nice load , what do you use the wood for besides bowls .


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## Daninvan (Apr 2, 2014)

john taliaferro said:


> That is a nice load , what do you use the wood for besides bowls .



Thanks John, I build furniture as a hobby, Krenov style cabinets, plus whatever strikes my fancy. Right now I'm working on a shoji style lamp from some yellow cedar I milled a few years ago. Have started a couple slab tables but never finished one, maybe someday.


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## Dave Boyt (Apr 2, 2014)

I've wondered whether there are any serious arguments over ownership of the logs. Sounds like the first guy with a chain saw has first shot at the wood. Does anyone just come with a trailer, load up, and take the logs home to cut later? If I were the loader operator, I'd rather have a nice piece of your work than cases of beer. I don't remember seeing any photos of your woodwork. How about posting a few?


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## Daninvan (Apr 2, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> I've wondered whether there are any serious arguments over ownership of the logs. Sounds like the first guy with a chain saw has first shot at the wood. Does anyone just come with a trailer, load up, and take the logs home to cut later? If I were the loader operator, I'd rather have a nice piece of your work than cases of beer. I don't remember seeing any photos of your woodwork. How about posting a few?



Well this was not really even an argument, as soon as I said that I had already marked it, there was no problem. The sad reality is that there is only me and one other guy who mill these logs, the rest of them are ground up for hog fuel. So there is not really much serious competition for them. Sometimes they sit there for months before I get around to them. 

I posted a few pics of my work in the other thread.


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## Dave Boyt (Apr 2, 2014)

Nice woodworking! Too bad more of the wood doesn't get used.


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## beachcomber (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks for the nice pics. We had extremely nice weather yesterday also, oh we'll back to rain today


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## SDB777 (Apr 3, 2014)

Did you ever figure out the reason for the 'stoppage'? Seems very strange from my chair.....



Scott (great photo's as always) B


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## Daninvan (Apr 5, 2014)

SDB777 said:


> Did you ever figure out the reason for the 'stoppage'? Seems very strange from my chair.....



Thanks Scott,

I agree, it is very strange. I have not looked closely at it yet. Hopefully over the weekend.

One other clue is that the leading edge of the bar appears to have been overheated just shy of the middle. I was using an external oiler, and it was functioning, so it seems that lubrication was not a problem. And the chain turns freely so it is not being pinched there. Chain was sharp, good tightness, there was no metal in the logs, the mill was not rubbing on the chain, and the exact same setup cut like a dream the week before. Only change was I set the cut thickness to 6", which is wider than I normally use, but have done it before on occasion without problem. Open to suggestions on this one . . .






Dan


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## BobL (Apr 5, 2014)

How sloppy is the bar groove Dan? On deep cuts like that, the pushing of the saw/mill such as long way away of the plane of the cut can sometimes cause the chain to lay over. Just looking at the finish on the log it looks like the chain may have taken a dive.

BTW I did some milling yesterday. The Daytime max Temps have finally dropped below 30ºC so I went to the Tree Loppers yard and milled up a couple of short (3ft long) logs for a wood working group that I joint a few months ago. Nothing worth taking pics of but it was nice to get back to the noise and the sawdust. I used my small alaskan with the 441 running the lopro chain and the modified 404 rim sprocket for the first time - it seemed to work well enough.

The yard is full of logs waiting for me to get back to it. My right foot is still not 100% sorted from a bout Plantar Fasciitus and I am feeling it this morning.


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## psgflier (Apr 6, 2014)

BobL said:


> How sloppy is the bar groove Dan? On deep cuts like that, the pushing of the saw/mill such as long way away of the plane of the cut can sometimes cause the chain to lay over. Just looking at the finish on the log it looks like the chain may have taken a dive.
> 
> BTW I did some milling yesterday. The Daytime max Temps have finally dropped below 30ºC so I went to the Tree Loppers yard and milled up a couple of short (3ft long) logs for a wood working group that I joint a few months ago. Nothing worth taking pics of but it was nice to get back to the noise and the sawdust. I used my small alaskan with the 441 running the lopro chain and the modified 404 rim sprocket for the first time - it seemed to work well enough.
> 
> The yard is full of logs waiting for me to get back to it. My right foot is still not 100% sorted from a bout Plantar Fasciitus and I am feeling it this morning.



I have had the same thing happen with unevenly worn bar rails.
I got some new rip chain one time from a big name source, it cut good for a few feet, then either took a dive or climbed.
Finally figured out that they had sent me 50 gauge chain instead of the 58 gauge I ordered. They said they couldn't get rip chain in 58 gauge.
After I got some 50 gauge bars everything went real good.


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## Daninvan (Apr 7, 2014)

BobL said:


> How sloppy is the bar groove Dan? On deep cuts like that, the pushing of the saw/mill such as long way away of the plane of the cut can sometimes cause the chain to lay over. Just looking at the finish on the log it looks like the chain may have taken a dive.
> 
> BTW I did some milling yesterday. The Daytime max Temps have finally dropped below 30ºC so I went to the Tree Loppers yard and milled up a couple of short (3ft long) logs for a wood working group that I joint a few months ago. Nothing worth taking pics of but it was nice to get back to the noise and the sawdust. I used my small alaskan with the 441 running the lopro chain and the modified 404 rim sprocket for the first time - it seemed to work well enough.
> 
> The yard is full of logs waiting for me to get back to it. My right foot is still not 100% sorted from a bout Plantar Fasciitus and I am feeling it this morning.



Thanks Bob and Psgflier.

Bob sorry to hear about your foot still, but glad you persevered and got out to mill up something. That Plantar Fasciitis can be a real bear to get rid of, take care of yourself. 30 degrees C? I would be happy if it got as high as 15 here!

I got tied up in some other stuff on the weekend and did not have a chance to take a look at the saws. I will check out the bar groove when I get to them. The bar is slightly older than the hills, although I do file it regularly to keep any lips or burrs from forming on it. I guess if the groove is getting wallowed it may be time to consider a newer bar.

Dan


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## john taliaferro (Apr 8, 2014)

ouch $$$$$$ new bars are expensive maybe just have it rebuilt . I like your boxes , you should do more of them .


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## Daninvan (Apr 10, 2014)

OK mystery possibly/hopefully solved on the dulling of the chain for no obvious reason. 

I pulled the bar off today and discovered that quite a noticeable groove had been worn on one lip on the cutting side of the bar. Plus the bar groove was packed with metal dust, so it seemed evident that the bottom of the chain was grinding down the bar lip.

So the wear on one side like that was consistent with BobL's suggestion that the bar was somehow laying over in the cut. 

Thinking back, I recalled that last time I 'serviced' the chainsaws, there was a part left over and it was too late in the day to figure out which saw it had come from. I subsequently forgot about it. I'm pretty embarrassed about this but think you may see where this is leading . . .

Note that there is only one plastic piece in this photo, whereas the subsequent photo shows the 'missing' piece back in place. Oops.









I have not run the saw in a cut yet, but I am thinking that the missing piece was the source of the trouble. I have filed the bar lip down, and sharpened up the chain. Hope to get out on Tuesday to verify that things are back right!

I also measured the groove width at .070 around the middle, and .065 at both ends. It is a .058 bar. Not sure how that plays into it. 

Dan


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## mdavlee (Apr 10, 2014)

Daninvan said:


> OK mystery possibly/hopefully solved on the dulling of the chain for no obvious reason.
> 
> I pulled the bar off today and discovered that quite a noticeable groove had been worn on one lip on the cutting side of the bar. Plus the bar groove was packed with metal dust, so it seemed evident that the bottom of the chain was grinding down the bar lip.
> 
> ...



That bar is getting loose and possibly letting the chain rock sideways and bind. A new cannon bar is in the .002-.003" larger than specified groove.


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## psgflier (Apr 10, 2014)

Those plastic guides just help control the chain coming off from the sprocket onto the bar, they wouldn't have anything to do with the bar wearing. Ripping is just real hard on a bar. Even a little sand from those beach logs doesn't help.
True up the bar, close up the rails and go to 63 gauge chain on that bar. You can get by with a sloppy chain, 50ga in a 58ga bar or 58ga chain in a 63ga bar, cross cutting, but it'll get you ripping. You have to check both the bar rails and the chain links for unsymmetrical wear.


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## john taliaferro (Apr 11, 2014)

Chain bar repair in Portland , i think they are still in business .


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## Daninvan (May 9, 2014)

Well just to close the loop on this one. I did another day of milling with these bars that have the worn grooves. I did not attempt any cuts as thick as had given me the problem in this thread (although close), and things went well. I have been milling with these same bars for 6 or 7 years, and they were well loved before I bought them. So I decided they didn't owe me anything and bought a couple new bars.


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## IanB22 (May 9, 2014)

Great tail here. I two recently ran into a problem milling. Unfortunately it is always costly to replace something, in my case, I am running a .058 chain in a .063 bar, and if the chain is not sharpened exactly as required, things go wrong. I'll be out next week running this setup for the last time, and will be switching to a .063 chain after that. A problem with my chain or bar loses me a whole session milling. That is something I can't afford! So, like you, a new purchase is in order to 'save' time from breakdowns when milling!


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## BobL (May 9, 2014)

When Chainsaw parts were somewhat softer than they are these days my Dad used to say,


IanB22 said:


> Great tail here. I two recently ran into a problem milling. Unfortunately it is always costly to replace something, in my case, *I am running a .058 chain in a .063 bar, *and if the chain is not sharpened exactly as required, things go wrong. . . . .



Ne careful doing this. It's not just the opening up of the top of bar groove, which can be fixed by closing it up, but the narrower chain laying over can wear the inside walls of the groove which cannot be repaired. Then when using 063 chain on that bar the drivers will lack side support and the chain will find it easier to lay over even if he rails are true.


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