# Need Equipment Advise, much work to do



## THC (Jul 10, 2004)

Gentlemen,

Where do I begin? First I must admit I know nothing and need much advice.

I am 65 years old and have free climbed many trees over the years to either take them down, which I hate to do, or try to repair wind damage in the tops. I frankly did not even know or had ever heard of the word Arborist, until a year ago when my biologist daughter was nearly hired to work in Florida in that field.

The situation is that we have over forty trees that have been damaged by a tornado on the property where I live and there is much work to be done. I have been unbelievably stupid in the methods I have employed, but then again I am still here. I say this because my wife decided to buy me a good quality Weaver saddle which is absolutely great and having read the warnings on it, I decided to begin reading the information on this forum to learn much more about how to do things safely. 

I have read the Tree Climbers Companion, a great book, and am beginning to try to make decisions as to an equipment list that is needed.

The trees to be worked in are White Oak, Locust, Maple, Poplar, Walnut, Wild Cherry and several other species located here in southern Indiana. Heights are 25 ft to 70 ft. 

If you people would be so kind as to offer a list of basic gear, it would be very much appreciated. I have looked on the various Arborist supply sites and see many varieties of gear, tools etc to choose from. I typically do not use a chain saw in the tops but much prefer hand saws even when dropping 10” dia tops and limbs. I have however used a 12” bar Poland saw from time to time. Please feel free to offer any and all advice, warnings etc. you feel are applicable. I have a lot of respect for the writing on this forum and a fairly thick skin so am not too easily offended.

I am hoping to not waste money on poor quality equipment which is the reason for this post.

The following list is what I feel may be a start.
Personal safety gear needed
Helmet	1 pc
Gloves	1 pair

Climbing gear
Climbing rope 150’ 1 pc
False Crotch 1 pc
Personal lanyard 2 pcs
Rope / Gear bucket	1 pc
Whistle	1 pc
Rope saver	1 pc
Carabiner	6 pcs
Throwline / bag	1 pc
Figure eight	1 pc
Micro pulley	2 pcs
Rope bag	1 pc
Rope saver	1 pc

Tools
Hand saw 18 or so inch lgth	1 pc
Pole saw	1 pc

Questions
What is the best material specification to use for making the Pruski loop?

My Weaver saddle has 4 “D” rings, 2 on each side, nothing in the middle as illustrated in the Tree Climbers Companion. So the question is in descending, how would you rig the rope to this saddle?? Looking more closely, I would believe you would bring the two lower “D” rings together and tie in to them as one. These are also used when tying in to do your work aloft as a second lanyard safety device.

A friend who did repelling many years ago has offered me his gear. I am thinking the rope, which has been stored in a good bag, is possibly ok for the lowering of cut limbs and so on, but not trustworthy for anything else. What is the length of time for climbing rope to be trusted?

What other books do you folks recommend? I am trying to buy a copy of Professional Tree Felling which I looked up on the web site. You cannot learn to much or be too careful.

Best regards,
Terry Crowell


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 10, 2004)

Uhhh... I dunno where to start.

Let's hear some more replies!


THC, eh?


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## Dadatwins (Jul 10, 2004)

Please do not offense to this and I am not trying to discriminate, but my opinion for someone 65 years old with out a lot of experience doing hazard tree work the best book to get would be the local Yellow pages and find some one else qualified to do the work. The amount of equipment needed to set yourself up to tackle such a job would amount to a significant sum of $$$. That $$ could be spent on hiring a pro to at least handle the high work and maybe you could handle the cleanup and ground work to save some money. Whatever you decide please be careful, this type of work does not allow for many mistakes, and major ones are usually bad.


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## Newfie (Jul 10, 2004)

Don't ask a logger. we'll just tell ya too cut em down! 


Try posting this in the commercial tree care forum on this site.


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## StIhL MaGnUm (Jul 11, 2004)

Thats true Mike I agree Cut Em Down !!  Or better yet get a feller buncher thats the easiest way : )

Rob


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## Ax-man (Jul 11, 2004)

This is almost laughable, I came over to this thread in the hopes of a discussion on some logging equipment, because I have a penchant to do some timber work on occasion. Instead I find one of these wanna be tree climbers with a Christmas wish list. What are you going to do with all that stuff, when your done with it, become some kind of contract climber.

First, take Dadatwins advice, he is not steering you in the wrong direction, he is only looking out for your safety. We do have some older climbers here on the site. So I'm not exactly going to discourge you, if you really think you can do this. Just stick to the easier trees and maybe let someone else handle the harder stuff. Free climbing a small easy tree is one thing, limb walking and working on mangled limbs is a whole different ballgame and requires experience and finesse to do it safely. It might be best if you could find someone to teach you the basics.

You seem sincere THC, for a troll, so I'll nibble a little.

About your list, you only need about a 1/3 of that stuff. if that much

Helmet and gloves, yes

You already have the saddle, the hip rings are for the lanyard or flipline. the two D's that hang out in front are for the rope.

Get yourself an approved climbing rope and a two piece lanyard .Your going to have to figure out how to attach the rope to the saddle. You can choose between a rope snap, carabiners, locking spreader snap or a variety of knots. You are also going to have to choose between a closed loop type climbing system or split tail, with the appropriate climbing knot. If you have the Tree Climber 's Companion read up on that last sentence.

A throwball and line would be handy.

As far as the false crotchs and rope savers, you don't really need those. Definately forget that figure 8, that is a dangerous tool for the uniniated, if your going to use it in a tree. 

If you want to spend money on rope bags and gear buckets, what ever trips your trigger.

Hand saw and polesaw, Yes, chain saw in tree not a good idea

I wouldn't trust any used equipment other than my own, for doing tree work.

I don't know if I would post over in the climbing forum, couple of sharks over there that like to take a bite out of a wanna be, newbe. see how thick skinned you are. Your kinda safe here, unless they come prowling over here.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 11, 2004)

*I Sthil like his initials...*


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## Dadatwins (Jul 11, 2004)

I am suprised no one from the climbing forum has wandered over here to rip this one open too.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 11, 2004)

There needs to be a sticky concerning inquiries like this, maybe with some links to some associated threads.

But stickys _SUCK!_


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## Ax-man (Jul 11, 2004)

Better yet, how about a link to one of those climbing schools.

I've just been here a short while, I agree withy Rock, The story is all to familiar. Just because they can buy the tools, that magically transforms them into bona- fide tree climbers. All I got say is that they'll find it isn't as easy as it appears, and will have to learn a lesson the hard way. Those books don't tell how aggrivating it can be to work in a tree.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jul 11, 2004)

If you are hell bent on doing this, I would suggest that you hire a tree co. to do the bigger trees ( as Ax-Man already suggested ) hang with them while they work ( if they will let you ) and see what is going on. Then make a decision on whether or not you want to even attempt the small trees that are left. Storm damaged trees, no matter what size, are a whole different breed than undamaged trees. The loads that are put on limbs can be tremendous and* can be very, very dangerous*.


Most of the guys on this site have worked their way up through the ranks to become the climbers that they are. Best to listen to their advice. They are just trying to save your neck!


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## THC (Jul 11, 2004)

*Much work to do*

Gentlemen,

Believe me, I know the risk. I appreciate all of your thoughts. Please under stand, I have already taken down three of the severely damaged trees, free climbing to 60+ feet to do it. This is why I am asking for any of your thoughts. Just have not ever used proper equipment before. Up to now all hemp rope. I had no idea about how dangerous this is until reading the accident forum. There is no money I can spend for a professional, God I wish there was. 

Just lost the top out of a good Walnut yesterday, it is hanging from approximately 30 ft up. Have a very large dead White Oak, that I will not go anywhere near as large limbs are falling nearly every week out it. This place is a hazard to even cut the grass. I have had a logger come in and take a look at harvesting the 40 to 50 large downed trees that are in the hollow. If he will take the risk, the value of the lumber is probably less than the cost of getting to it.

As to health, I just this Saturday and Sunday road a bicycle over 60 miles at a 15 mph average speed. I am in very good health and can easily climb a 30 ft rope which I do two three times a week for exercise. Ex US Marine.

You can rest assured, I will be very cautious and learn slowly and not do anything with out a great deal of thought.

Just give me some idea of the proper equipment that is needed as the only guide I have is the Climbing Handbook.

I will keep you posted as to how it is going.

Best regards,
The Fool!!


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 11, 2004)

Terry, just read for awhile, at the very least.

Use the search function, ask if you have any trouble.


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## Ryan Willock (Jul 11, 2004)

Marine huh? that would account for it


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## glens (Jul 11, 2004)

So what the hell's wrong with giving a guy a list of what makes a good "starter kit"?&nbsp; I can't believe you guys.&nbsp; Do you all think you're so elite that nobody else can do the same type of work you do?&nbsp; Is there some special initiation required?&nbsp; What's the big deal, anyway?&nbsp; Should I not consider getting into climbing?

Glen


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## Newfie (Jul 12, 2004)

No $$ to hire a pro but $$ to buy a boatlaod of expensive arborist equipment?

With that many trees there must be some roon to drop them. Sounds like a basal pruning cut for the worst off ought to be a starting place.

Damage caused by a tornando, no insurance coverage to cover the job?


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## THC (Jul 12, 2004)

*Much Work to Do*

Guys,

Thank you all for the comments. 

Please, one of you AX-Man, stated I do not need but 1/3 of the list. Please supply a list of equipment and what you fellows feel will be the best reading material.

What is the safest equipment to buy?
What equipment is best for ascending and descending from the height?

The Walnut I spoke of earlier, I could free climb and easily tie off slightly above the broken 6" dia branch. Typically, I make a cut from below out approx. 8 to 10" from the main stem. Using a bow saw which is not the best, but it is all I have. I watch carefully and feel for the branch to tighten on the saw. I then climb to a point above the break and begin the final cut which typically breaks cleanly and the limb falls away out of the lower branches. Another point to make, is that I have the time to often cut back the broken limb by removing as many smaller pieces as possible before ever going up to remove the larger piece. The thought behind this, is I then have better control of the larger piece and less weight to contend with.

This is why I would like some thoughts on what you fellows feel the best Pole Saw would be for the money and also the best hand saw?? I need better tools! The choices in hand saws alone are many, all with what seem to be good features?? 

Believe me when I say thanks for all of your comments, and yes I deserve the chastising which is sincere and helpful as it emphasizes the need for extreme caution.

Best regards,
The Fool


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## Ryan Willock (Jul 12, 2004)

Ok, you have a saddle. Next would be a 120' blue streak climbing rope with an eye splice on one end, I would buy a roll of (I think it comes 180' to the roll?) Zing-It throw line and an 8 once bag. You're also going to need an eye and eye prusik cord, 1 micro pully, I like having four of five biner's with me ( I like the petzal ball lock myself), 1 flip line, 1 silky (got to have that!!!) hand saw, 1 hard hat (climing style of course) and that will get you into the tree for pruning. If you're planning on removing the tree and need to climb it then I would look at a set of gaffs and a steel core flip line.


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## THC (Jul 12, 2004)

*Much work to do*

Mr. Ryan,

Thank you for your kindness and the suggestions.

Do you people have any suppliers you like more than others?

Equipment brands?

120' blue streak climbing rope with an eye splice on one end. 
Question: Is the rope sold with the eye splice installed? Or is the eye splice of the doubled back and spliced into the weave as done on sailing lines?

Zing-It throw line and an 8 once bag. 
Ans: Good I know what this is and it will be ordered.

eye and eye prusik cord
Ans: Good I know what this is and it will be ordered

1 micro pully
Ans: Good I know what this is and it will be ordered and made good use of this.

Good to go on the other items

silky hand saw
Question: There are several designs, any thoughts on what is best for pruning? Or is this a personal preference thing?

steel core flip line
Question: Would you not always use this type of flip line?

Gaffs will come later a most of the trees are healthy and just need the upper broken branches pruned.

Please suggest good books to read on both tree care and climbing safety and technique.

Best regards,


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## Ax-man (Jul 12, 2004)

I got to keep this short, 

If your going to use a throwball I'd get some 12 or 14 oz. plus a 16. for an in between shot for a tree that is full of suckers or deadwood. An 8 oz. is great for a high shot, but might not return so easy unless the limb or crotch is smooth barked, easy running, and free of suckers. I'd get an extra line too, they do get stuck in trees nice to have a spare.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 12, 2004)

Who do you have to perform an aerial rescue?


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## Ax-man (Jul 12, 2004)

I think that is what the whistle is for. Unless he is planning on having chippers and chain saws running nine ninety on the job.


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## THC (Jul 12, 2004)

*Much Work to do.*

Mr. MasterBlaster,

Question:
Who do you have to perform an aerial rescue?

This is a very good question. I would have to say the local volunteer firemen who if you have ever seen them work....!! You would probably be better off NOT being rescued.

There will be one to two helpers on the ground. No chippers, no chain saws, no distractions if at all possible. I have to admit I am looking at each tree with a much different approach than before, where I just climbed it, tied off and made the cut, came down, limbed the brush with a Double Edge Axe, brought the tractor over with the trailer, loaded up and transported the debris to the dump site.

There is really is no adequate answer. Tell me, have you ever been involved in a rescue or been rescued? If so what happened?

Actually, I am going to make a call to these guys and see what they have to say. We do have a county maintenance crew across the road from the farm entrance. It would be a good idea to check with them also.

To Ax-Man,

Thanks for the suggestions on the throwball. 

Best regards,


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## Ryan Willock (Jul 13, 2004)

You have to special order the eye splice on the climbing line. I personally like Sherrills, they're a little on the pricey side but they know their product and thats worth a lot. If you already have the climbers compainion then you're off to a good start. You might consider some of the books from ArborMaster Training.


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## Ax-man (Jul 13, 2004)

Glens,

No, there is nothing wrong with giving a guy a " starter kit " but we have no idea who we are giving advise to, let alone what their talents are for doing tree work, if they have any at all.. We have enough injuries and accidents within our own ranks, let alone opening the door to novices who come here, that may add to those statistics.


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## Ryan Willock (Jul 13, 2004)

Who are we to say that someone can't do something? I do believe that we should warn people of the dangers and costs but hey if some one wants to jump off of a bridge thats THEIR BUSINESS, not mine. (THC, thats not aimed at you, but please think twice, cut once) Now I do agree that we have seen some real idiots come on here looking for advice and just trolling in general. If some one is going to try it anyway then I think we should at least point them in the right direction so that they have a least a chance of learning to do it safely.


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## THC (Jul 13, 2004)

*Much work to do*

Gentlemen,

I cannot thank you all enough for the advise, concern for safety and general help you have given me.

I am looking at several books and checking the costs of a professional climber. One of you mentioned, no $$ for a pro, but $$ for equipment. The people in the area I have spoken to who have had work done tell me prices that would buy 3 times the equipment I am looking at. I realize they are also buying the knowledge to safely do the job. 

I can't help it, I like to climb and work up there. I also like to learn new things and this activity is very attractive to me. 

When you think about it, the forum is a most incredible method of learning and the ability to talk to real experts as you fellows are is a great privilege. You have brought to me many factors I have never before considered and I now look at the many trees around me in a much different way.

I do like living, so you can bet I will think a long time before acting.

Thank you all again, you have all been great people with which to talk.

Best regards,


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 13, 2004)

Terry, I only mentioned that in passing because it _is_ a good practice to be in the habit of. Sometimes I'll have climbers around me, and sometimes I won't. I'll even climb alone, but I don't enjoy it.

I was just thinking being inexperienced it would be good for you to have someone around. No flames were meant. 

Have ya been reading the old threads?

Here's a couple...

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=100722#post100722

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10595

There are a lot more.


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## glens (Jul 14, 2004)

<a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treeclimbing.it%2Fshop%2Fset%2Findex.htm&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools" target="_blank">starter kit</a>


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## Dadatwins (Jul 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by glens _
> *<a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treeclimbing.it%2Fshop%2Fset%2Findex.htm&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools" target="_blank">starter kit</a> *



I can't even spell half of the stuff on that list, and would probably need a second mortgage to pay for it.


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## Ax-man (Jul 14, 2004)

Just out of curiousity what does a euro dollar translate into in our money.


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## glens (Jul 14, 2004)

google is your friend.&nbsp; Searching for "currency conversion" and doing "I'm feeling lucky" gets you <a href="http://www.xe.com/ucc/">xe.com</a>.&nbsp; A moment ago, 820 EUR is 1014.92 USD (1,343.69 CAD).&nbsp; Sherrills could probably do a bit better, especially if certain substitutions were made.

The individual components can be discovered by "thumbing through" http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/start.htm

Glen


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## glens (Jul 15, 2004)

It's actually a nice-looking package.&nbsp; I was going to add links for the (equivalent) items at Sherrills site, but two things prevented me.&nbsp; First is that I can't even get <i>into</i> their site anymore in the last couple of days and second, if I could, the <i>really poor</i> site design doesn't provide a way to "deep link" to the product "pages".&nbsp; (If you guys see this and want some help, let me know; I'm available and am sure we can work something out.&nbsp; There are several extremely fundamental design flaws!)

Here's a set of links (which should each open in a new window) to google-translated pages for the individual items.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/petzl/index.htm" target="_blank">Imbrago from job Petzl Navaho Vario</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/petzl/index.htm" target="_blank">Helmet from job Petzl Encrin ST</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/corde/index.htm" target="_blank">Rope Yale XTCplus asolata from 45 meters</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://professionalropes.com/italien/corde_pro6.html" target="_blank">60 meters rope from gone back Beal Antipodes 10.5 milimeter</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/pesini/index.htm" target="_blank">Bag for ropes "Diabolik"</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/corde/index.htm" target="_blank">Cordino Yale asolato XTCplus for bellunese node</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/longe/index.htm" target="_blank">Longe in Kit with bloccante Petzl Microcender</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/forcelle/index.htm" target="_blank">False complete staple 80 cm</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/doppia/index.htm" target="_blank">Double complete Kong handle</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/connettori/index.htm" target="_blank">5 Kong shackles to triple formed emergency pear</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/connettori/index.htm" target="_blank">Carrucolino Oscillating Petzl with small shackle</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/pesini/index.htm" target="_blank">4 pesini from launch</a>
<li><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.treeclimbing.it/shop/pesini/index.htm" target="_blank">coil from 100 meters of cordino from launch</a>
</ul>
Glen


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## THC (Jul 16, 2004)

*Reading More*

MasterBlaster.

Thanks for the reference to the climbing site. I will be reading all I can.

By the way, just made $50.00 clearing a walking path for a fellow where at least 7 large trees had fallen across. Took about 3 hrs and a lot of careful consideration as to how to drop the 60 ft long stems that were crossed over each other. Did a little climbing with much better understanding due to the discussions we have had here.

I have been off the net for two days as a result of another storm that knocked out power and fried the modem. 

A logger came in Thursday and bought 38 downed trees of several varieties. The result is $800.00 which is more than I ever expected from the difficulty in extracting the material.

Bought a pare of chaps for better saw protection. Expensive!!

Bought two throw bags and some carabiners. Am getting ready to order climbing rope and a throwline, & flip line with steel core. This may sound strange, but we have a hardware store up the road that carries Sunbelt Outdoor Products for nearly the same prices as those I have seen on the net. My funds are coming from Social Security which as I am still working, will help fund the equipment. There is no retirement in my future as there is no savings, looks like I will work until age 70 or beyond.

Thanks again, I am open to all of your thoughts and suggestions.

Just a last item of some interest, the logger gave me a lesson in felling trees. God was I off base with what I was practicing. I hope to attend a class that is to be held in a forest north of Bloomington, IN in October.

Best regards,


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## Stumper (Jul 16, 2004)

Terry Terry Terry... you worked 3 hours for $50? AUUGHHHHH!


23_30_121.gif


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 16, 2004)

Yea, Terry. $50 won't get me outta the house, unless it takes me 15 or 20 minutes.

Here are a few more links you might enjoy;

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10024&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11410&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9882&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1158&highlight=climbing+spurs

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11019&highlight=climbing+spurs

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5353&highlight=climbing+spurs

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12578&highlight=climbing+spurs

http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/Friction Hitches.html

http://131.230.57.1/knots.htm

http://www.forestapps.com/tips/tips.htm

http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/bowline.htm#Twist



_ENJOY!_


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## Dadatwins (Jul 17, 2004)

$50 dollars for three hours climbing? Learn all you can buddy, for that price there is probably a hundred guys here that would love to sub you out.


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## Ax-man (Jul 17, 2004)

Looks like he is hooked, he is already out free lancing to make some money. With the log money he could afford a decent starter kit.

Oh Terry, make sure that any hardware for life support you plan on buying at this Sunbelt store is rated for our industry, minumum break strength 5,000lbs. or 23 Kn. and carabiners that are posi-locking. 

If your going to do this, do it right, don't take any short cuts on safety.


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## THC (Jul 18, 2004)

*$50 bucks for 3 hrs*

Stumper,

I new that would bring me some gaffs. The guy is a good friend, and I would have done it for the experience but he wanted to at least pay what it would cost to rent a chain saw. The fellow is a physics teacher and it was a lot safer for him, for me to do the work as I was much more careful than he would have been.

Ax-Man,

This Sunbelt store carries Samson Climbing Rope, Blue Streak. I have asked for a quote on 120' of 1/2" 8100 lbs Tensile test line. I am wondering just what the strength loss is as it ages, is exposed to the Sun, temperature and any other degrading factors? How do you know when it is time to renew?? 

How do you folks cut and seal the ends of your rope? This company offers a rope burner, and rope counter. Also are there any threads on making your own rope eyes. I have done this successfully for nautical lines in the past.

MasterBlaster,

Thanks for the links, I will read them as soon as I can. What is the normal charge per hour for the work you do? I did not feel I can charge much when I would not make a pimple on a real Arborist rear end.

I cannot tell you how good it is to talk with you folks, and if I can get to a point where I may be able to perform on at least a junior level, I may truly try to get some work in the field. I currently work in the hydraulic distribution business. Please E-Mail me if any of you ever have a hydraulic application as I have designed many fluid drives for machinery. I will not charge for the design work, but hope if you decide to go through with the project, you would at least buy the first order from the company I work for Scott Industrial Systems. We have a website, www.scottindustrialsystems.com. 

We can offer small power units that could drive a winch with a brake that possibly could be used to put the worker in the tree and back down under highly controlled conditions. If any of you have an interest, I could give you some ideas to kick around.

Best regards,
If only we had a sky hook, but then, what fun would that be??


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 18, 2004)

Tree climber's r nuts, Terry. I would stick with the hydraulics gig.

Ya know?


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## Ax-man (Jul 28, 2004)

Wonder what happened to our gung ho elderly tree climbing marine??

Hope he didn't fall out of one of those wind mangled trees.

Thought he would have checked in with some more questions, maybe he has it all figured out and doesn't need any advice.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Jul 29, 2004)

heres me thinking you get wiser with age ,obviously not the case with this poor fellow


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## THC (Jul 29, 2004)

*Where have I been??*

Mr. Ax-Man,

You guys are absolutely the greatest!!

I read you note to my fellow worker here and he wanted to reply that they had buried me last week. 

Actually, I have been working on the ground except for one small excursion into a small Black Walnut. Have been reading through Douglas Dent’s book on Professional Tree Falling and re-reading The Tree Climber’s Companion. Have been working on learning several knots, watching the logger do his work on the many trees that were blown down. 

We have an interesting condition in what is left of the small 15 or so acre wood lot. I will try to describe this for you for your comments. We have a Wild Cherry approximately 20” in dia that is broken off at the stump about 4’ up. The stem is at least 35’ + long and the canopy is hooked in the canopy of a White Oak of at least 36” dia. The Cherry is hanging vertically approximately 3-4’ to the North of the Oak. There are no obstructions, limbs or snags between the two trees. The location is on a 30% slope. 

If I tie a line on the Cherry and try to yank it out of the Oak, there is considerable chance of a lot of damage occurring to the Oak. I really do not want to chance damaging the Oak, even though it is back off the edge of an 8 acre field where it is not really that visible. We do have deer hunters in this woods and this thing will become an even greater hazard as time passes.

Thoughts on what to do??
Climb the Oak and using a pole saw, begin carefully trimming back the Cherry until it is dislodged from the Oak. This may not be a good idea as you may not have any control over the Cherry when it drops the 5-6’ to the ground and there is not any way to predict which way it will then fall. So here we are up a tree, ropes dangling and with my luck, it would catch my lines and the falling Cherry tree and pull me out of the Oak. Not a great thought!!

Next thought
Climb the Oak and figure out a way to cut say 5’ lgths off of the Cherry stem until there is nothing left but the canopy, which could then be fairly safely pieced out until gone.

Or
Put a line on the Cherry stem up near the canopy, tie the line off to prevent the stem from falling toward the Oak, then cut the stem free up near the canopy. In theory, the Cherry would drop vertically, lay into the tie off line and fall in some direction other than against the Oak in which I would be very temporarily housed. Possibly very temporarily housed.

Last, just let it rot out and fall when ever. Small chance anyone will be under it?? Personally, I don’t like any of the options.

On the question of “Thought he would have checked in with some more questions, maybe he has it all figured out and doesn't need any advice.” You can rest assured, I am not doing anything until proper equipment arrives and then there will be lots of questions. This will probably be in a month or so and I will be back to you guys.

I do have an immediate question for you. I am reading in the catalogs about ascenders and descenders. Ahh…..if I have this correct, you use an ascender to go up, and a descender to go down??? Oh boy am I in trouble!! Sherrill offers the I'D DESCENDER/LG./ by Petzl/11.5-13mm rope use/Belay device/GREY. This sounds like the best and possibly the safest for an old fool like me. So the question is what would you folks suggest?? For both going up and coming down. Are these devices, something that is carried on the tool belt and applied as neede??

Thanks to all of you.
Best regards,


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## Stumper (Jul 29, 2004)

Terry, It isn't possible for me to advise you on the cherry without at least a picture. Being in a wood lot instead of the house yard makes leaving it to its own future more palatable if not perfect. re4garding ascenders and descenders-many of us have worked on thousands of trees using only our friction hitch-NOT employing and other mechanical devices. If you feel a real need for a device then you'll be "needing" an ASCENDER. Going up is the hard part. Gravity makes going down simple and a friction hitch is adequate for controlling the descent.:angel:


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## THC (Jul 30, 2004)

*Can't advise without a Picture*

Mr. Stumper,

If I can figure out how to post a picture, I will try to get some photos of the hanging tree. 

It is interesting how this thing could have gotten where it is and we, the logger and I cannot quite understand except to say the wind does strange things.

Best regards,


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## gumneck (May 14, 2005)

So how did it turn out? I started this from post one b/c of a search on "wild cherry" , get hooked into it, and the last post has no resolution. 

I'm biting my nails here....


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## Ax-man (May 14, 2005)

I don't know what happened to him, probaly fell out of tree. He started a thread or two over in the climbing forum and that was the last we heard from him. He was an interesting guy wasn't he. 

Larry


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## THC (May 16, 2005)

*Hi gents, have not fallen out of tree YET!!*

Hi guys,

So you don't what happened to him?? The old fool is still around and doing a lot of clearing still from last years storms and carefully removing leaning trees and broken limbs. 

The most difficult work is dropping Locus trees that have several stems with little or no horizontal branches, and that are leaning over buildings. I should invest in gaffs. These are trees that are maybe 30 - 40 ft high. The fear is that attempting to cut an 8" diameter vertical branch, 20 or so ft in length, will kick back and nail the person doing the cutting. I need a bucket truck for that. Wonder what it would cost to rent one.

There are 27 acres here, and lots of fields to mow, equipment to maintain, brush to remove, cut wood to stack, and hand split. I am a one old man show, with a full time job, which leaves only the week end for tree climbing and trimming.

Frankly, I find the whole thing fun. I go slow and do a lot of thinking before I act. I definitely need a Big Shot. That may likely be the next acquisition.

I cannot thank you people enough for the safety information and other advice you have provided. 

My primary tools are a Marvin’s pole saw, trimmer head, and an 17” long Fanno FI-1700 hand saw. 

Climbing gear is Samson climbing rope, throw line, throw bags, Weaver saddle, Red Dawg boots from Bailey’s, old MSR helmet that is similar to the Petzel helmet, a 6’ lanyard, and The Tree Climber’s Hand Book. 

Hopefully, I will not get into trouble. The hand book is great, but nothing is as simple as it makes out. Limbs are never where you ideally want them to be, and I never seem to throw the line exactly where I want it. Some of the Locus trees have no suitable horizontal branches that would be a safe crotch. Either the limb is a broken stub, or way to small a diameter to trust. So what to do with it?? I don’t have an answer.

Well it is late and I have to get up at 5:00 am, and off to work on hydraulic applications where I make a meager income. But, at my level of education, a meager income is better than no income.

Best regards,
Terry Crowell


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## MasterBlaster (May 16, 2005)

I still love those initials.


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## vharrison2 (May 17, 2005)

MasterBlaster said:


> I still love those initials.



Master, you crack me up


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