# Feeding 80+ quater horse mares and about a 100 holstein bull calves....



## deeker (Jan 14, 2011)

For a friend who needs rotator cuff surgery...

Knowing most of the U.S.D.A. rules and regs....
I was asked if I could butcher a bull/calf if one needed to be dispatched because of a broken leg....

As I read the regulations....it is okay to do so if it is for personal use only.
Am I correct?

Growing up we used to butcher our own beef cattle, as well as our own game animals.

Not new to the farm or butchering.....just want to know if it is still legal...as per my interprutation of the laws.


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## indiansprings (Jan 14, 2011)

Yes, it is legal, we've done it several times. This fall had a freak deal and killed one with the head chute, it's in the freezer. Prolly done three or four in the last 20 years because of broken leg, hip, no issues at all.


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## les-or-more (Jan 14, 2011)

deeker said:


> For a friend who needs rotator cuff surgery...
> 
> Knowing most of the U.S.D.A. rules and regs....
> I was asked if I could butcher a bull/calf if one needed to be dispatched because of a broken leg....
> ...


I would have a veterinarian look at it first,the USDA has gone all loco on the mad cow stuff. The vet can "inspect" the animal safe for consumption, otherwise you may end up with the USDA gestapo on your case.


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## deeker (Jan 14, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> I would have a veterinarian look at it first,the USDA has gone all loco on the mad cow stuff. The vet can "inspect" the animal safe for consumption, otherwise you may end up with the USDA gestapo on your case.


 
I would not want that. 

It would be fun to call the local USDA inspector over there at 0500hrs though...


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## les-or-more (Jan 14, 2011)

indiansprings said:


> Yes, it is legal, we've done it several times. This fall had a freak deal and killed one with the head chute, it's in the freezer. Prolly done three or four in the last 20 years because of broken leg, hip, no issues at all.


 
We have a local guy that runs a meat cutting shop that had the USDA confiscate meat because it had a broken leg. They claimed the animal could not walk so violated regulations. The meat belonged to a farmer my brother was working for at the time. The only thing that saved him was the vet was there the day the heifer broke the leg and he wrote a letter stating he saw the animal and it was safe to eat.


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## indiansprings (Jan 14, 2011)

Never seen a usda inspector when we kill and have the butcher come out to the farm, it's not usda inspected if it is for your own consumption here, just labeled for individual use/ no resale.


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## deeker (Jan 14, 2011)

I prefer to stay as far away from Uncle Sam's "perview" as is possible.


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## les-or-more (Jan 14, 2011)

indiansprings said:


> Never seen a usda inspector when we kill and have the butcher come out to the farm, it's not usda inspected if it is for your own consumption here, just labeled for individual use/ no resale.


The guy doesn't have a USDA inspector on site so they won't allow him to cut meat with bone in, he has to debone everything. Any place up here that has a inspector can't butcher any animal that can't walk off the transport vehicle. A couple of farmers were escorted by the state police back to one local slaughter house because the animal couldn't stand when they got there. The slaughter house charged $175 disposal fee to get rid of the animal, the farmers refused to pay and tried to leave with the animals. Its a real scam they have going on up here, most farmers just shoot them and bury them, bad enough losing the cow, without pouring salt in the wound paying $175 bucks for them to make alpo.


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## deeker (Jan 14, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> The guy doesn't have a USDA inspector on site so they won't allow him to cut meat with bone in, he has to debone everything. Any place up here that has a inspector can't butcher any animal that can't walk off the transport vehicle. A couple of farmers were escorted by the state police back to one local slaughter house because the animal couldn't stand when they got there. The slaughter house charged $175 disposal fee to get rid of the animal, the farmers refused to pay and tried to leave with the animals. Its a real scam they have going on up here, most farmers just shoot them and bury them, bad enough losing the cow, without pouring salt in the wound paying $175 bucks for them to make alpo.


 
Around here....some critters end up in the compost pile.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 14, 2011)

deeker said:


> Around here....some critters end up in the compost pile.


 
Hmmm that sounds scary if your a usda worker lmao


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## dingeryote (Jan 14, 2011)

Deek,

If that critter went lame and you don't know how long it was, ask your buddy what to do with the thing and just follow his lead, as it may very well be his ass in a sling.

You don't have to put up with the mountain of nonsense and liability, he does, and you would be looking out for him to ask.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## olyman (Jan 14, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> We have a local guy that runs a meat cutting shop that had the USDA confiscate meat because it had a broken leg. They claimed the animal could not walk so violated regulations. The meat belonged to a farmer my brother was working for at the time. The only thing that saved him was the vet was there the day the heifer broke the leg and he wrote a letter stating he saw the animal and it was safe to eat.


 
know what that sounds like--at first read????? like some usda pukes were short on meat in their freezer---


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## olyman (Jan 14, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> The guy doesn't have a USDA inspector on site so they won't allow him to cut meat with bone in, he has to debone everything. Any place up here that has a inspector can't butcher any animal that can't walk off the transport vehicle. A couple of farmers were escorted by the state police back to one local slaughter house because the animal couldn't stand when they got there. The slaughter house charged $175 disposal fee to get rid of the animal, the farmers refused to pay and tried to leave with the animals. Its a real scam they have going on up here, most farmers just shoot them and bury them, bad enough losing the cow, without pouring salt in the wound paying $175 bucks for them to make alpo.


 
arent gov flunkys wonderful???? sheesh!!!


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## RVALUE (Jan 14, 2011)

What do you think don't ask, don't tell means.


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## RVALUE (Jan 14, 2011)

But, seriously, why would you bother breaking its leg before you butchered it?

It's easier to break the leg after it's dead. IMHO.


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## hanniedog (Jan 14, 2011)

At one time the USDA inspectors were veterinarians and the head buyer at the local hog plant said "he wouldn't have one of those guys castrate his cat". Since you are doing it by yourself for yourself anything pretty much goes. There is a bunch of good meat that goes to waste because of the walking rule.


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## Sagetown (Feb 3, 2011)

USDA regulations have caused local slaughter houses to raise their fees so high that more people are reverting to processing their own livestock. Last year I had two lambs and one beef processed at the locale slaughter house. Each little 90# lamb cost $80 and the 500# beef cost $165. I'll do my own lambs from now on.


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## olyman (Feb 3, 2011)

Sagetown said:


> USDA regulations have caused local slaughter houses to raise their fees so high that more people are reverting to processing their own livestock. Last year I had two lambs and one beef processed at the locale slaughter house. Each little 90# lamb cost $80 and the 500# beef cost $165. I'll do my own lambs from now on.


 
except,,as a friend of mine said--that used to work on a ranch out west,and butchered more than one sheep--you got to know how to butcher them,,or the meat will gag yah--serious


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## Sagetown (Feb 3, 2011)

> olyman ~ the meat will gag yah--serious


I'm fixin to find out. I've got one hanging and another on the waiting list.:rose:


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## olyman (Feb 9, 2011)

Sagetown said:


> I'm fixin to find out. I've got one hanging and another on the waiting list.:rose:


 
youd have to talk to ed,,to get the full download!!! i know he said you had to cut their neck,,and bleed immed,,,,and had to keep the wool totally away from the meat..the oil in the wool,would taint it--and something about some glands??? he told me--if i needed one butchered,,he would drive up--from georgia!! to do it for me!! and that man can cook!!! hes owned a few restuarants,,and made goooood money!!!!


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## Sagetown (Feb 9, 2011)

olyman said:


> youd have to talk to ed,,to get the full download!!! i know he said you had to *cut their neck*,,and bleed immed,,,,and had to *keep the wool totally away from the m*eat..the oil in the wool,would taint it--and something about some glands??? he told me--if i needed one butchered,,he would drive up--from georgia!! to do it for me!! and that man can cook!!! hes owned a few restuarants,,and made goooood money!!!!



I did all those preliminaries, so I should have good meat. The hide actually peeled off very easily. The most critical part was opening the carcass without damaging the entrails as they can easily be ruptured ruptured. 

Cut and wrapped the meat. All looked real good and process went well. NEXT !


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## Bill G (Dec 26, 2011)

In doing a search for a completely unrelated topic I ran across this old thread tonight. It seems some brought up issues regarding the USDA that are unrelated to the original post. The original poster asked about butchering a injured animal for their personal consumption. The USDA has no jurisdiction in regulating how meat is processed for your _personal consumption_. It is your personal choice, period. If you want to butcher it yourself there is nothing USDA can say. If you take a animal to a local meat locker with a broken leg or other injury you may or may not have a problem. If you are wanting it for your personal consumption and that is all the locker will be doing that day then there will not even be a USDA inspector on site. If they are also processing meat that day that will be sold retail then they will probably not be able to do it. The reason is there is a chance of cross-contamination between your "injured" animal and the meat for retail sale. When butchering for retail there is a USDA inspector on site. This is the reason locker plants have days set aside for each type of processing. If you take a steer or barrow in to your local locker plant for your own consumption I bet it comes back with a stamp NOT FOR RESALE. The reason is it was never USDA inspected because it was for your personal consumption. 

Now in reality if you have a animal laying there with a broken leg you cannot wait 2 weeks for the local locker plant to have a day set aside for personal butchering. You have to make a decision. You either do it yourself, find someone who will, or dispatch it for the coyotes. In this area with have another option. We have a local mobile butcher that will come out to your farm and butcher on site. He is not USDA inspected because once again it is for personal consumption. He charges pretty fair rates if you can give him a couple months notice. If it is an emergency such as a broken leg then he charges about $75 extra. About 8 years ago we had a calf get out and hit on the highway. It had to be shot. I did not want to bother the mobile guy at the late hour so I figured the coyotes would get a meal. A local guy stopped by and asked what we planned to do with the calf. He said he would take it and I said fine as long as there was no sign of it alongside teh highway the next morning when I went to work. He got good meat and it was not wasted.

My point is that the USDA is not the enemy to the guy trying to feed his family our prevent animals from going to waste.

Bill


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## les-or-more (Dec 26, 2011)

Bill G said:


> Now in reality if you have a animal laying there with a broken leg you cannot wait 2 weeks for the local locker plant to have a day set aside for personal butchering. You have to make a decision. You either do it yourself, find someone who will, or dispatch it for the coyotes. In this area with have another option. We have a local mobile butcher that will come out to your farm and butcher on site. He is not USDA inspected because once again it is for personal consumption. He charges pretty fair rates if you can give him a couple months notice. If it is an emergency such as a broken leg then he charges about $75 extra. About 8 years ago we had a calf get out and hit on the highway. It had to be shot. I did not want to bother the mobile guy at the late hour so I figured the coyotes would get a meal. A local guy stopped by and asked what we planned to do with the calf. He said he would take it and I said fine as long as there was no sign of it alongside teh highway the next morning when I went to work. He got good meat and it was not wasted.
> 
> My point is that the USDA is not the enemy to the guy trying to feed his family our prevent animals from going to waste.
> 
> Bill



If you dispatch an animal and leave it for the coyotes you will be fined if it is reported. The local shops are no longer allowed to store uninspected meat in the same cooler as the inspected meat. They have all stopped processing deer and other wild game because they have to have seperate facilities and equipment to process it. The farmer I referenced earlier in this thread had his meat confiscated from the local shop, it was for personal consumption, and the only thing that saved him from fines was the fact that the vet was doing herd health the day the heifer broke her leg. The vet wrote a letter staing that he had personally looked at the animal in question, to satisfy USDA regs. I sent a cow to to the rendering plant last week because I had no room to do anything with the meat, and none of the neighbors wanted to butcher her. A cow in heat mounted her and split her on slippery concrete, she can't walk so what do ya do with her?


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## Sagetown (Dec 26, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> If you dispatch an animal and leave it for the coyotes you will be fined if it is reported. *The local shops are no longer allowed to store uninspected meat in the same cooler as the inspected meat.* They have all stopped processing deer and other wild game because they have to have seperate facilities and equipment to process it. The farmer I referenced earlier in this thread had his meat confiscated from the local shop, it was for personal consumption, and the only thing that saved him from fines was the fact that the vet was doing herd health the day the heifer broke her leg. The vet wrote a letter staing that he had personally looked at the animal in question, to satisfy USDA regs. I sent a cow to to the rendering plant last week because I had no room to do anything with the meat, and none of the neighbors wanted to butcher her. A cow in heat mounted her and split her on slippery concrete, she can't walk so what do ya do with her?



At this time the local shops here still process deer and game animals, but they are being burdened by more USDA regulations.
However; during the deer hunting season, the shops set aside certain days for processing deer only. 
As for normal processing of commercial and custom beef, they're worked in the same facility.


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## Bill G (Dec 26, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> If you dispatch an animal and leave it for the coyotes you will be fined if it is reported. ........



That has nothing to do with the USDA. Do not blame them for a local/state law. Last December we had a cow die while I was checking them. It was the darnest thing I had seen as she was basically dropped and within 15 minutes was dead. The point is we had no place to drag her to. My only choice was right down the road to bottom of the bluff and across the creek. As I was returning to the top of the hill one of the local conservation officers stopped by to visit. I told her I was glad she had not come by earlier and explained what I had done. She laughed and said that is what her and her husband (also a DOC officer) do. Now I believe here in Illinois we are not supposed to hunt officer it. 



les-or-more said:


> The local shops are no longer allowed to store uninspected meat in the same cooler as the inspected meat. They have all stopped processing deer and other wild game because they have to have seperate facilities and equipment to process it. ...................



Well it is their choice to stop processing deer. The USDA just does not want wild game and uninspected meat being processed at the same time in the same facility. Here all shops that process deer shut down all other operations until deer is done. Then they go back to normal operations. If they did not do this then that would discredit any type of USDA inspection that was done on retail meat.



les-or-more said:


> ................... The farmer I referenced earlier in this thread had his meat confiscated from the local shop, it was for personal consumption, and the only thing that saved him from fines was the fact that the vet was doing herd health the day the heifer broke her leg. The vet wrote a letter staing that he had personally looked at the animal in question, to satisfy USDA regs.



Why did the the local shop accept the animal? I can easily see the USDA being quite upset if a injured animal was in the same location as meat being cut for retail sale. That would be a violation but it would be the shop owners fault for accepting the animal. That is why I said that here they have days set aside for only personal consumption meat. For example if Wednesday is the day that the plant is processing retail meat and a farmer has a cow with a broken leg that day then they are not going to be able to help the farmer out. I know that is bad but you have to see the USDA point. That is why we have local on site processors.



les-or-more said:


> ................ I sent a cow to to the rendering plant last week because I had no room to do anything with the meat, and none of the neighbors wanted to butcher her. A cow in heat mounted her and split her on slippery concrete, she can't walk so what do ya do with her?



If you do not have physical room for the meat but do have a mobile butcher you can donate the meat to soup kitchens. It is a bit of a hassle so few participate. Otherwise if local laws prohibit placing the carcass out for wildlife food then you pay the rendering fee.

In any event there is no reason to bash the USDA. They are people just like anyone else. Some over step their bounds but most will work with you. If you want to know something good they have done for farmers then research the regulations that were put in place after the mad cow scare. Shortly after that they stated that no cattle over the age of 30 months could be butchered in a facility that did not meet their new regulations. The owner of the local locker plant showed me the letter he got from the USDA. Later they relaxed the regulation and the local lockers can now butcher cows.

Bill


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## les-or-more (Dec 26, 2011)

Bill G said:


> That has nothing to do with the USDA. Do not blame them for a local/state law. Last December we had a cow die while I was checking them. It was the darnest thing I had seen as she was basically dropped and within 15 minutes was dead. The point is we had no place to drag her to. My only choice was right down the road to bottom of the bluff and across the creek. As I was returning to the top of the hill one of the local conservation officers stopped by to visit. I told her I was glad she had not come by earlier and explained what I had done. She laughed and said that is what her and her husband (also a DOC officer) do. Now I believe here in Illinois we are not supposed to hunt officer it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bill the guy that runs the shop goes to the farm and processes the animal to hang in his cooler, the animal in question was a heifer with birth date and pedigree for umteen generations.He doesn't sell meat he processes other peoples animals. She had a leg broken between the knee and shoulder, obvious why she couldn't stand. The only reason the meat was returned was the letter from the vet, common sense goes a long way in most things to bad the USDA didn't use some. If you work for the USDA maybe you should go talk to actual farmers who have to deal with the ridiculous regulations.


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## Bill G (Dec 26, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> Bill the guy that runs the shop goes to the farm and processes the animal to hang in his cooler, the animal in question was a heifer with birth date and pedigree for umteen generations.He doesn't sell meat he processes other peoples animals. She had a leg broken between the knee and shoulder, obvious why she couldn't stand. The only reason the meat was returned was the letter from the vet, common sense goes a long way in most things to bad the USDA didn't use some. If you work for the USDA maybe you should go talk to actual farmers who have to deal with the ridiculous regulations.



*I am a farmer* and I do not work for the USDA. I do deal with their regulations


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## ShoerFast (Dec 26, 2011)

Sometimes I wonder if the slower an animal can travel, the quicker it becomes 'fast food' ?

I wouldn't blink before hanging the halfs of something with a broken leg.

But do have a question about how much bother a calf would be worth?
Good eating, but won't go far.

This time of year, you can get a whole week off a calf as coyote bait.


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## les-or-more (Dec 26, 2011)

Bill G said:


> *I am a farmer* and I do not work for the USDA. I do deal with their regulations



If that is the case then you should understand how stupid the blanket "no walk" policy is.


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## Bill G (Dec 27, 2011)

les-or-more said:


> If that is the case then you should understand how stupid the blanket "no walk" policy is.



I have never heard of that policy ever applied to personal consumption animals EVER. If you seem to still want to argue then just call any locker plant. 

Here is one
Home - Reason's Meat Locker Service

Tell Steve what your problem is.

Here if you want to try another state.

West Liberty Locker & Processing

If you need 24hr service
Woodhull Locker in Woodhull, IL 61490 - (309) 334-2235

The point is do not ##### about policy that are not the fault of the folks you are #####ing about. If you do not like what you are told then do something about it. I am sorry you feel the big brother USDA caused the issue but you have proven they did not.

Now since you mention horses do you want to discuss them as we may actually agree on them


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## weimedog (Jan 3, 2012)

And i was waiting to see where chainsaws figure into this equation....opcorn:


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## Sagetown (Jan 5, 2012)

Sagetown said:


> I'm fixin to find out. I've got one hanging and another on the waiting list.:rose:



Those two lambs processed out great by Feb. 2011. So far the meat has been very good. 
I have one lamb that's ready this year, but the weather is't cooperating yet.


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