# Saw teeth quality



## FRED PARKER (Jun 4, 2009)

Any input on your experiences with carbide saw teeth like the kodiak style with breaking, Bending, Or if the carbides just fall off because of improper welding etc. ?


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## bullbuck (Jun 4, 2009)

have had no experience with carbide either,but i have often wondered if it would be a sound investment for a rookie landing man that has rototilling tendencies,or would the drivers wear out way before the teeth?:monkey:


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## motoroilmccall (Jun 4, 2009)

Carbide will still dull if you're digging in the dirt, but it'll take quite a bit longer. Only problem is that you'll spend a long, long, long time filing, because the carbide is nearly as hard, if not harder, than most files. 

Basically, if you are willing to invest in a grinder, and a few wheels, then its worth it for extremely dirty cutting, otherwise just stick to semi-chisel.


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## bullbuck (Jun 4, 2009)

hmm...sounds like i just keep on filing for the kid, its easy enough...thnx for input


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 5, 2009)

*carbide grades*

In researching different grades of carbide I have found their is a micro grain to a course grain type carbide. 

In the micro grain type carbides they will stay much sharper for longer time than the courser grain type. 

The grades that have the cobalt in them will keep the edge sharper and longer with out a lot of chipping to the edge. 

Better for when rocks, dirt, mud, or sand are present. To sharpen carbide, Use a diamond file, $10.00 bucks Harbor Freight , Not the best quality , But they do the job.


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## Cletuspsc (Jun 7, 2009)

I think Mr. Parker here is talking about slasher bits not saw chain.


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## bullbuck (Jun 7, 2009)

gotcha,no slashers here,clears things up a bit,thnx


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 8, 2009)

well carbide material with cobalt can be use in chain saw teeth or the slasher inserted type teeth tips, 
I was trying to refer to both I guess.
But you can sharpen both easy with a diamond wheel or file.

In your chain saws do you know what teeth steel material that you use for cutting.?

It might be a manufacture secret ?


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## bullbuck (Jun 8, 2009)

i prefer skip oregon cjx chisel chain wich i round file to an edge,i have bought bargain chain out of baileys and found that our slow growing wood here burrs the top edge almost immediately,how do you know what grade steel you are recieving?probably not as simple as cold,hot,roll..?but i have noticed that if you force a chain to cut...i mean to the point where the kids burning through versus sawing,when i get to filing that overheated chain even with a new file i swear it has an all new temper..hard as a firkin rok!


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 8, 2009)

How do you know what kind of steel saw chain it is when you are looking to purchase one. Will it tell you on the chain ?

Maybe the cause on that over heated chain is that the chain is only a high carbon steel chain ?

Which is effected by heat and fast cooling to harden like that. 

Cobalt chrome carbide teeth will not change hardness when heated from friction.


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## bullbuck (Jun 8, 2009)

that is a good question?i do not know if there is a rating on the box or what?maybe someone else would know,sometimes in baileys they say"for clean wood "or for"abrasive conditions"but i bought some skip from baileys one time that was too soft to cut your leg off with...couldnt even use the stuff


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 9, 2009)

I know when I was a rookie and still am in a lot of ways, I took a chain saw to cut out some tree stumps roots in the ground, 
Well I found out that did not do the chain saw chain any good, 
The dirt did it in. That chain wore out fast.

I though about something else to maintain the sharpness of a chain tooth,

After sharpening and to store your chain saw, Spray wd 40 on the chain to keep the moister off because the water air and moister causes enough rust to dull ? 

Like your shaving razor if you dry the blade it will cut almost forever, It doesn't really dull from shaving with it, Its the water and air that dulls it, Try it , Dry the razor good each time. It works for me, On the same razor now for 3 month. Sorry Did not mean to change the subject .


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 9, 2009)

There is so many different types of alloy teeth for chain saws, I think thats why the manufacture only specify names on chains for per lumber cutting jobs in stead of alloy spec, 

Each manufacture has there own metal alloy specification on what they think works the best per application, 

I like to see alloy spec myself, For instant chisel tooth, Depending on the manufacture that sells chisel style, There could be several different alloy spec per each different manufacture, ? I still want to see alloy spec , 

Welcome your thought


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## bullbuck (Jun 9, 2009)

i agree,that would give you a much better idea to judge a cutting product by,and help you be more "needs"specific


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 9, 2009)

Good thought, That way you could judge for your self. If the chain was out of the package how would you know what kind of chain it is to use for a specific job, ? I know I ask a lot of questions.


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## bullbuck (Jun 9, 2009)

never too many questions,can never learn too much...all valid points,the reason i have cut with cjx chain all these years is it works,i know everytime after i sharpen it out of the box i'm good,i dont earn enough money to be buying bunk chain...


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 10, 2009)

I think you are very right, You hit the chain saw right on the log, If you find a chain that works for you, 
You stick with it, I guess I get to technical when it comes to saw & knife steel, I'm always looking to build a better mouse trap.
I have spend a lot of years in a steel foundry which made
a lot of saw teeth & knives. Hard to stop now,


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## bullbuck (Jun 10, 2009)

aah,well i worked with a guy who had a vermeer wood chipper that would make quick work of a 12 inch log and he had to have the blades professionally sharpened,said something about if you tried to sharpen the yourself they could shatter,i imagine they were very high temper steel because they would take quite a bit of abuse before dulling


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 10, 2009)

Yea . Those chipper blade are something else, The r.m.p and the pounding they go through , The high pitch sounds is like standing next to a jet engine. 
I remember we would heat treat those knifes to a 58 r.c. which thats is pretty hard for steel and then temper back to take the brittleness out of the steel to avoid chipping and cracking the edge, 
The steel we used was A-8 chipper steel which is common to use in the knife industry, It is a good cheap steel that works very well, It will make quick work out of a 20 inch log fast, But a 2 inch rock would do it in.

A8 metal spec = carbon manganese silicon chromium molybdenum tungsten And A8 modified would be better grade
0.55% 0.30% 0.95% 5.00% 1.25% 1.25%


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 11, 2009)

I did check prices on the carbide chain. (Pricey!) , I can see why tool steel or high speed steel teeth will work just fine for the average or bigger jobs, 
Carbide is more of a special T item, Mainly used by the fire department.

Has any body ever heard of trying to retip a carbide tooth chain, Or repair the tooth by welding a cobalt hardfacing welding rod on the carbide tooth with a t.i.g welder. And then resharpen. ??

welcome your thoughts


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## JAM (Jun 13, 2009)

Carbide doesn't weld too good. I tried it once at a customers request, used a blank from a broken Boring Bar and tig welded a stainless bead up the side, as soon as the weld started to cool the section with the weld broke out landing several inches away on the bench. I haven't looked at a Carbide saw chain, are the teeth silver soldered on like some machine tools?


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 13, 2009)

Thats what I was afraid of, the hardfacing rod would not stick to the carbide. The carbide must be to hard and or dirty to mix the two metals to bond together.

The silver brazing solder 50-N is what I use to bond carbide teeth to the steel. 
As far as I know the chainsaw carbide teeth are silver soldered in so you must be able to retip them.? 
I have welded on carbon steel with a cobalt hardfacing welding rod with no problem, 
either gas or tig welding with cobalt can be used to rebuild a carbon saw tooth, and be sharpen down to a razor edge. 

Picture of a brazed slasher saw tooth with silver solder 50-N bonded to a .500 k carbide, 
Dose anybody have a close up picture of a carbide chain we can look at.


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## JAM (Jun 14, 2009)

I used to use 4130 air hardening tig rod on machine tools, If I remember right it would be about 43 rc. I don't remember the exact mix in silver solder
we used on carbide but it was high in silver so we had to use a higher temp. flux with it to avoid burn off before the silver flowed. It would be worth a try if you could find a beat up chain and try retipping.


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 14, 2009)

I am looking for a chain now to experiment on, I will first try to weld on the cobalt based number 12 hardfacing rod on a standard steel tip, and then sharpen. I will try carbide next.


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## nhlogga (Jun 16, 2009)

i never tried full carbide chain. however i did try the injecta-sharp chain from baileys. the chain is made by carlton. i was not impressed by it at all. cut extremely slow and way too tough to sharpen unless you have a grinder. i'll stick with oregon lgx.


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 17, 2009)

How can I cut faster with a carbide chain , and why does carbide teeth chains cut slow,??

Could it be the carbide teeth that can not hold a superior razor edge so making the tooth roll over the top of the wood instead of cutting through, could that be the main problem here ??

The manufacturers may not have a clue about what grade of carbide is the best to use,
all I here is c-2 carbide, there is a lot better grades of carbides out their then c-2 ? ?


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 20, 2009)

My next project is to research and develop an alloy called (high speed carbide), 
to improve faster chainsaw cutting , 
and edge holding abilities. That would be some what easy to sharpen.
I will keep you posted on the progress.
:greenchainsaw:


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## bullbuck (Jun 20, 2009)

.... keep in mind that if you increase the life of the saw teeth you must also increase the life of the driver to match or else theres not much use in it,keep us posted there must be a combination that works


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## FRED PARKER (Jun 20, 2009)

I'll keep that in mind Bullbuck:agree2:


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## Veteran (Jul 17, 2009)

FRED PARKER said:


> My next project is to research and develop an alloy called (high speed carbide),
> to improve faster chainsaw cutting ,
> and edge holding abilities. That would be some what easy to sharpen.
> I will keep you posted on the progress.
> :greenchainsaw:



Checkout sub micron carbide or CBN //Sandvik carbide get the $$$$ out


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## FRED PARKER (Jul 20, 2009)

sandvik , good carbide. I have come to the conclusion that a high speed CARBIDE will be like high speed STEEL with TUNGSTEN material , keeping in mind the best quality & value. Still engineering & field testing for chain saws & re-tipping teeth. Getting closer to the final product.


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## Veteran (Jul 20, 2009)

FRED PARKER said:


> sandvik , good carbide. I have come to the conclusion that a high speed CARBIDE will be like high speed STEEL with TUNGSTEN material , keeping in mind the best quality & value. Still engineering & field testing for chain saws & re-tipping teeth. Getting closer to the final product.



I have some trees you can come over and buck if you need test material.:greenchainsaw:


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## FRED PARKER (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks for the invite , I'll keep that in mind. I'm working on repairing chain saw teeth , I don't know yet if this is cost effective to do or not. Is there anybody you know of ever try to rebuild chain saw teeth.???


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