# Ms661 vs ms880 on 36”mill



## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

Im looking to step up my milling. 

Currently run a ms460 with some light port/muff work done. On a 24” mill. 

I mill Fir and Pine for building various things in the property. 

I have access to endless wood really. So I am looking to invest a bit and up my production. 

I want to go to a 36” mill and a bigger saw. Break down into big cants. (Ex. 6”x25”) then use the ms460 to rip 2”x6”s off the cant. 

My question is on a 36” mill will the 880 be much faster then the 661? 

Either saw will have porting and tuning done. 

I can see the 880 winning a grunt match when the bars get long. But 36” and under I wonder if the chain speed on the 661 will take the win? Especially in softwoods. 

Any input would be awesome.


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## andy at clover (Mar 8, 2020)

If you have the option, 880 all the way.
Will run with less effort and give more "headroom" for oiling bigger bars if you do need.

My trees run are similar to yours as our region is the same (Doug, Western Cedar, Western Maple).
I ran a 661 for a while and although the AT is great and saw has plenty of power and adequate oiler to 36"bar .... I run a 3120 now and it just feels effortless.
After a Muffler mod,...An MS880 would run with less effort and last longer... Also, it would have the "rear end" if you run a longer bar (I run a 62" at times and the big saw oils it!)
Not sure I would port it for milling. There are some threads about on things to do to set up an MS880 for best running... I've read they are piggies out of the box and need some setting up.

Cheers!


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

andy at clover said:


> If you have the option, 880 all the way.
> Will run with less effort and give more "headroom" for oiling bigger bars if you do need.
> 
> My trees run are similar to yours as our region is the same (Doug, Western Cedar, Western Maple).
> ...



From what I’ve read the ms880 needs the muffler opened up and the unlimited coil from the 088s at the minimum. 

I found a shop that dose the 880 up with ceramic coated bearings and the works. Might be the route I go “buy once cry once”.


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 8, 2020)

I run a porter ms661 with a 36” bar for milling. Anything over that I run the ported ms880 up to 72”. I’m in the PNW also and it really depends on the wood. Maple I would run the ms661 all day, but fir is nasty In chains and a .404 chain setup will last longer than a 3/8 chain so the 880 would pull that better.
To the not porting reference, that is a very vague term and misleading. Mine are all woods ported and run cooler since all I’m doing is introducing a larger charge of fuel and air. Compression is around factory levels so the added heat of more compression isn’t a factory. I have 3 years of milling in the 880 and the internals look great. I run big muffler mods and max flow air filters in all my saws. With the white foam element it really helps keep the fines out from milling.
The 661 will do you fine, but if you can afford it you’ll enjoy running the 880, and it also doesn’t limit you to large wood found in our area. Either option you choose get a woods port done on them with muffler/air filter mods and they’ll treat you well.


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 8, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> From what I’ve read the ms880 needs the muffler opened up and the unlimited coil from the 088s at the minimum.
> 
> I found a shop that dose the 880 up with ceramic coated bearings and the works. Might be the route I go “buy once cry once”.


Unlimited coil is an option, but for milling you’re never at a high rpm anyway so really pointless money spent. The bearings might be worth looking into, but unless it’s supported with other modifications may also be pointless money spent. Almost an all in or nothing kind of thing. Muff mod would be a mandatory minimum option, second would be widen the ports for more air/fuel and enhance the intake system. They really turn into new machines after that. If you wanted porting done to a level where a squish band was cut and compression increased then the unlimited coil would be a smart route.


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## andy at clover (Mar 8, 2020)

BlackCoffin said:


> I run a porter ms661 with a 36” bar for milling. Anything over that I run the ported ms880 up to 72”. I’m in the PNW also and it really depends on the wood. Maple I would run the ms661 all day, but fir is nasty In chains and a .404 chain setup will last longer than a 3/8 chain so the 880 would pull that better.
> To the not porting reference, that is a very vague term and misleading. Mine are all woods ported and run cooler since all I’m doing is introducing a larger charge of fuel and air. Compression is around factory levels so the added heat of more compression isn’t a factory. I have 3 years of milling in the 880 and the internals look great. I run big muffler mods and max flow air filters in all my saws. With the white foam element it really helps keep the fines out from milling.
> The 661 will do you fine, but if you can afford it you’ll enjoy running the 880, and it also doesn’t limit you to large wood found in our area. Either option you choose get a woods port done on them with muffler/air filter mods and they’ll treat you well.



RE: No Porting

I'm not much of a wrench. My comments on porting milling saws come from experience here on AS.
The 3120 I have is a MMWS. Occasionally I have trouble with over-rich conditions... it just does not always want to run lower rpm's.
My Carb has a high jet installed which the new "factory" 3120's do not and still I can't seem to rich it up without some boggy issues some days. 
The solution I've had recomended is to swap out the Jug at some point, have the new jug "decked" if need be and that's that for milling.... run it stock with existing Muffler mod and unlimited coil.
Regardless of Stihl or Husky,...The big Saws are made by hand from what I understand. They have fewer milling flaws but are set up pretty "Flat" for epa purposes(supposedly).


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 8, 2020)

Mastermind can build a mean saw, but don’t think he has much experience with milling or building a saw geared towards milling. I think going as serious as he does on a saw may be better for fields of work other than milling. I believe the simple woods porting is as extreme as I would go on a work saw in this field. Not altering factory numbers this way and they run all day and last a long time setup that way. Not saying other forms of porting won’t do the same, but milling is tough on saws!


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## andy at clover (Mar 8, 2020)

BlackCoffin said:


> Mastermind can build a mean saw, but don’t think he has much experience with milling or building a saw geared towards milling. I think going as serious as he does on a saw may be better for fields of work other than milling. I believe the simple woods porting is as extreme as I would go on a work saw in this field. Not altering factory numbers this way and they run all day and last a long time setup that way. Not saying other forms of porting won’t do the same, but milling is tough on saws!


You may have a point although this is a "woods" Port saw as well (but Randy's woods port  ).
I traded my 661 for this saw as it sits. The work done is really nice. The carb high circuit looks and functions like factory.
Still very, very happy with it and won't make any changes until the day it needs a re-fresh.

OP, The more I think about it the more I recall how hard the 661 seemed to work with 30" of bar sunk into a fir for 10' runs... I would seriously go after more cubes if you plan to up your milling workflow.
Also, you might consider a 48" rail set and 42" bar..... My trees are constantly pushing the limit of the 36" mill or I'm having to shave the butt log. You'll add a bit of weight but not too much... a 36 is already heavy.
If you're just milling for dimensional lumber ok but for big Live edge slabs... well,... you see what I'm saying.
Dimensional lumber is relatively cheap..... I can't get the math to work well to making it with a Chainsaw Mill.


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## foeke (Mar 8, 2020)

Is a mobile bandsaw an option? So much quicker, and so much less wast. And quite affordable.


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

andy at clover said:


> You may have a point although this is a "woods" Port saw as well (but Randy's woods port  ).
> I traded my 661 for this saw as it sits. The work done is really nice. The carb high circuit looks and functions like factory.
> Still very, very happy with it and won't make any changes until the day it needs a re-fresh.
> 
> ...


Lumber is not too cheap here in Canada. I use mostly big beams or I just slab a 12-14” log flat top and bottom. Make great for a bridge bace. 

I did a bunch a 2”think live edge slabs and used them as decking to make a dock. 

Sometimes we don’t ship the oversized at work. And it gets chucked in the cull pile. Even a 42” tree squared up will fit in a 36” mill I think. Trees don’t get much bigger then that this far in land. 

Not to mention a fir that big i
Has 3”+ thick bark.


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

BlackCoffin said:


> I run a porter ms661 with a 36” bar for milling. Anything over that I run the ported ms880 up to 72”. I’m in the PNW also and it really depends on the wood. Maple I would run the ms661 all day, but fir is nasty In chains and a .404 chain setup will last longer than a 3/8 chain so the 880 would pull that better.
> To the not porting reference, that is a very vague term and misleading. Mine are all woods ported and run cooler since all I’m doing is introducing a larger charge of fuel and air. Compression is around factory levels so the added heat of more compression isn’t a factory. I have 3 years of milling in the 880 and the internals look great. I run big muffler mods and max flow air filters in all my saws. With the white foam element it really helps keep the fines out from milling.
> The 661 will do you fine, but if you can afford it you’ll enjoy running the 880, and it also doesn’t limit you to large wood found in our area. Either option you choose get a woods port done on them with muffler/air filter mods and they’ll treat you well.


You have a point about the 404chain. It’s actually cheaper to buy 404 then 3/8 around here. I think it’s because all the processors around here run 404.

And you are right. That big thick Fir bark is hard on chains. Especially if the wood was skidded. Luckily I run a forwarder. So I keep my wood clean. Lol.


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## andy at clover (Mar 8, 2020)

Yup larger beams are worth the time.
You mentioned 2x6 in your original post ... which may not be worth the time


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## Husky Man (Mar 8, 2020)

I don't know if you are limiting yourself to Stihl, but Dave "thechainsawguy" here on AS, sells the Husqvarna 3120XP NIB, PHO shipped, for $1399, hard deal to beat for an Excellent Milling saw.
I would also suggest a 48" mill, and I have been very Happy with my 44" Husqvarna BRANDED Titanium Alloy Bar by GB, I don't know the current prices, but mine was IIRC $235, and the 60" was $300, from Alamia, in Denver

Just MY thoughts on spending YOUR Money  


Doug


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

andy at clover said:


> Yup larger beams are worth the time.
> You mentioned 2x6 in your original post ... which may not be worth the time


Well a 12ft 2x6 is like 8-9$ here. 
A nice 24”-26” log. Give you what? 
3x 6”x18” Cants 
That’s 8 2x6/cant
24 x 8$ea 192$ in lumber 
I could rip 2x those in a day with the set up I have now. 

Lots of labor you are right.


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

Husky Man said:


> I don't know if you are limiting yourself to Stihl, but Dave "thechainsawguy" here on AS, sells the Husqvarna 3120XP NIB, PHO shipped, for $1399, hard deal to beat for an Excellent Milling saw.
> I would also suggest a 48" mill, and I have been very Happy with my 44" Husqvarna BRANDED Titanium Alloy Bar by GB, I don't know the current prices, but mine was IIRC $235, and the 60" was $300, from Alamia, in Denver
> 
> Just MY thoughts on spending YOUR Money
> ...


I have bought a few things off Dave over the years. He’s actually based out of Canada. As am I. His price is decent. 

The fixed jetting in the 3120 kinda turns me away. 
I’ve read that they both need to tweaking from stock form to really run sweet. But the 880 runs stronger in the end. Maybe I’m misinformed?

Truth be told I have owned a lot of stihl products and use them for work. Been very happy. The husky’s I’ve ran 372 365 355R and a couple old 266 and 288s. Have been great.

I guess I like my orange a little on the lighter side? Lol.


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## andy at clover (Mar 8, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> I have bought a few things off Dave over the years. He’s actually based out of Canada. As am I. His price is decent.
> 
> *The fixed jetting in the 3120 kinda turns me away*.
> I’ve read that they both need to tweaking from stock form to really run sweet. But the 880 runs stronger in the end. Maybe I’m misinformed?
> ...



There is a solution for the missing high circuit and it works quite well.... my carb has been modded.... it works like a factory adjustment. 
Both the 3120 and 880 are truly great big saws.
The main difference is going to be initial cost and dealer support.
If you don't have a Husqvarna dealer near by it makes Stihl more attractive. (my other saws are stihl for this reason).

As to cost, you can set up a new 3120 with tuning and a Bar for the cost of entry for PHO of an MS880. :/


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## SeMoTony (Mar 8, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> I have bought a few things off Dave over the years. He’s actually based out of Canada. As am I. His price is decent.
> 
> The fixed jetting in the 3120 kinda turns me away.
> I’ve read that they both need to tweaking from stock form to really run sweet. But the 880 runs stronger in the end. Maybe I’m misinformed?
> ...


I run Stihl with 3/8 .063 loops up to 60" bar so far. 5 foot bar is less a challenge with maxflo, muff-mod 72 cc PH by using skip chains. Part of the resistance is there isnot room for chips in a long cut with standard chain. Ported, max flo, muff-mod on, 661 runs semi skip with 8 pin drive fine thru maple. 
Also it's a bit lighter than an 880. Makes a difference after the 1st hour each use.
I bought a 661 used by a feller, to have a rebuild with a 660 crank for 6.3more cc's at the same weight. CAD? yep curiosity also. More torque from a longer stroke @ same weight is very tempting whatever the cost.
Mill safe


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

The 3120xp also has a chain tensioner that gets blocked on the mill? So I’ve heard.


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## IyaMan (Mar 8, 2020)

With unlimited wood, and a desire to upgrade in order to mill more, have you considered investing in a small bandsaw set up? Yes more expensive (usually $2000+), but much more efficient than a chainsaw in just about every way. Outside of small scale lumber, going big with a saw is usually only needed for slabbing big wood for table-tops, etc. but not really the best way to go for lumber production.


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## andy at clover (Mar 8, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> The 3120xp also has a chain tensioner that gets blocked on the mill? So I’ve heard.


Not blocked fully ... it’s actually no worry even with the mill on unless ...you’re mid cut on a log which is going to be rare.

When I first used that Husky “ front” chain tensioner coming from a Stihl “side” tensioner I was suspicious.
Fact is the front tensioner is more direct and less fragile.
I’ve had a stripped pawl on my 661 and 441 where the 3120 is much burlier.
I’ve come to prefer the more direct front tensioner for longer chains.


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## regulate34 (Mar 8, 2020)

IyaMan said:


> With unlimited wood, and a desire to upgrade in order to mill more, have you considered investing in a small bandsaw set up? Yes more expensive (usually $2000+), but much more efficient than a chainsaw in just about every way. Outside of small scale lumber, going big with a saw is usually only needed for slabbing big wood for table-tops, etc. but not really the best way to go for lumber production.


From a production stand point. Yes a band saw mill 100% 

But I like chainsaw milling. 

I actually have access to a 3blade saw mill.

It’s a old beast. Fun to run.


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## IyaMan (Mar 8, 2020)

At the end of the day, if you like it, thats all that matters!

I run a 2188 (90cc) on a 28" Alaskan and it blasts through softwood like a dream. I imagine an 880 or 3120 would be like a hot knife in butter, but could be overkill in pine thats less than 25". And you'd use a lot of gas. (though the oil market is in middle of a full on crash as I write this...)


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## ML12 (Mar 10, 2020)

If you're in BC and around the logging industry, you should be able to find a 090 cheap enough.... Yes they don't rev like a modern saw, but they also don't care how much bar gets hung off the front of them either. Plus they're dead simple and robust as anything. 

Otherwise, i'd lean toward the Husky 3120, they're just simple well constructed saws. The fixed high side shouldn't be a problem while milling, I would bet that they tend to run rich, if not just get mastermind to drill out the carb and add the high speed circuit.


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## rarefish383 (Mar 21, 2020)

Like usual, I’m late to the show. I was going to buy a 3120 but my dealer never gave me a quote and said it would be at least two weeks to get one ordered. So, I called my Stihl dealer. He had 880’s on the shelf. I walked in with cash in hand. While I was waiting for him to finish with another customer, I talked myself into saving a big chunk of my Money, and bought a 660. No problems with it, but if I were to do it over, I’d get the 880.

Or buy a band mill.


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## CR888 (Mar 21, 2020)

I'd buy a 3120....they can be bought new at a fraction of the MS880 list price. Displacement is king for milling, the 3120 is a lot of saw for the $$.


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## Husky Man (Mar 21, 2020)

CR888 said:


> I'd buy a 3120....they can be bought new at a fraction of the MS880 list price. Displacement is king for milling, the 3120 is a lot of saw for the $$.




Yep, Dave "thechainsawguy" is selling NIB, PHO 3120XP's for $1,399.00 Shipped, last I looked, he has an ad in the AS For Sale/Trade forum.

I bought my 3120XP from Dave, as have several other members, plus he also sells through ebay(same Price, But $89 shipping) and last I saw his ebay listing, he had sold almost 100, there and IIRC about 3100 transactions/100% positive feedback. Dave is a Reputable seller, that I would buy from again without any hesitation

NO, I Don't get any "Kickback" from Dave  , just a Happy Customer of His, letting other members know of my experience with him


Doug


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## andy at clover (Mar 21, 2020)

Husky Man said:


> Yep, Dave "thechainsawguy" is selling NIB, PHO 3120XP's for $1,399.00 Shipped, last I looked, he has an ad in the AS For Sale/Trade forum.
> 
> I bought my 3120XP from Dave, as have several other members, plus he also sells through ebay(same Price, But $89 shipping) and last I saw his ebay listing, he had sold almost 100, there and IIRC about 3100 transactions/100% positive feedback. Dave is a Reputable seller, that I would buy from again without any hesitation
> 
> ...



Dave is great.... definitely an asset to all of us looking for new saws.

Did you see He added 880’s to his listings?
$1700 shipped is as low as you’ll find.
Now Stihl guys can stay Stihl for milling with 120cc’s without flipping down 20+ Benjies!
(Although by the time you add a large mount bar ..... !! )


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## regulate34 (Mar 21, 2020)

I have been thinking on this for a bit. 

Part of me wasnts the 880 just to say I got the biggest. No 3cc idis. I know it’s a silly reason and the 3120 would do what I want with ease. But it’s a reason nonetheless. 

I got a little savings going for this buy. If I keep working threw this virus stuff. I should have enough for the saw and a new Granburg double ended bar and mill set up. 

For now. I’ll stock pile log for milling.


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## Husky Man (Mar 22, 2020)

Regulate, how close to the capacity of a 36" Mill do you expect to be milling?

Blue42 has a similar thread running, and yesterday, I Maxed out my 36" Granberg CSM, and measured it's Capacity, 36" is the the length of the mill's Rails, NOT it's capacity, with the End Brackets set to the very ends of rails, the mill's capacity was 33.5" inside the faces of the bar Clamps

Also, using a 36" B&C will likely leave you a bit short of the mills capacity, I measured my "36 inch" Bars on my 3120XP, 395XP and 390XP saws, both my "36 inch" bars, an Oregon Power Match, and a Husvarna Branded bar, that I Believe is produced by Oregon, measured 34.5" from Saw Face to Bar Tip, when mounted, NOT counting the Dawgs, leaving the Dawgs on will cost you some more bar length.

Also measuring one of my bars, I wouldn't clamp the nose end bar, any closer than 2.5" from the end, you don't want to squish your nose sprocket.

To get the most out of a "36 Inch" mill, you really need a 42" Bar

If you are expecting to mill very much 30" or larger, you should consider a 48" mill.

I haven't measured the max capacity of my 48" mill with my 44" bar in it, but the difference in weight isn't that much compared to the 36" mill, with the "36 Inch" bars mounted, the weight and price difference between, 36" and 48" set ups,isn't that Great, if you are going to be milling 30"+ logs, it is worth considering a 48" set up. If a 30"+ log is going to be a rare occurrence, then a 36" set up should serve you well

With Granberg, and probably most other, Alaskan Mills, figure the Max Capacity of the Mill as 2.5" LESS than the mills "Listed" size
Also to get the most out any mill expect to get a Bar that is 6" or so longer than the Mills "Listed" size


Doug


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## regulate34 (Mar 22, 2020)

Husky Man said:


> Regulate, how close to the capacity of a 36" Mill do you expect to be milling?
> 
> Blue42 has a similar thread running, and yesterday, I Maxed out my 36" Granberg CSM, and measured it's Capacity, 36" is the the length of the mill's Rails, NOT it's capacity, with the End Brackets set to the very ends of rails, the mill's capacity was 33.5" inside the faces of the bar Clamps
> 
> ...



I would say most logs are sub 30”.

I know you need a longer bar to maximize mill cut width.

The set up I have now for my 460 on a 25” ES bar only gives me 18” of cutting width.

But my plan is it go with the Granburg 36” double ended bar and mill combo.

I mill softwood. So I can run the chain on the aggressive side to gain speed. Especially with a 120cc set up.

I do this with my 460 when milling 12” and under.


Also with regard of mill size. I like extra room to have the mill cutting on a angle.
I find it cuts down on the fine dust and gives me more speed in the cut.

I think over a 36” set up with a 880/3120 with cut down on portablity. As I do go and mill some trees where they fall. Because we can’t access to move them.


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## Husky Man (Mar 22, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> I would say most logs are sub 30”.
> 
> I know you need a longer bar to maximize mill cut width.
> 
> ...




If an 880/3120XP set up over 36" would cut down on Portability, I Have to Ask, WHY are you considering a Double Ended Bar???

I also have to ask, do you understand what a double ended bar IS, and what it's PURPOSE IS???

If a single 880/3120 is too much, why on Gods Green Earth would you want TWO Powerheads of ANY size?????, especially on mostly sub 30" wood???

Inquiring Minds want to know


Doug


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## regulate34 (Mar 22, 2020)

Husky Man said:


> If an 880/3120XP set up over 36" would cut down on Portability, I Have to Ask, WHY are you considering a Double Ended Bar???
> 
> I also have to ask, do you understand what a double ended bar IS, and what it's PURPOSE IS???
> 
> ...


You should have a look at the mill kit they have. It’s a double ended bar with a assist handle. 

Obviously I not thinking of running 2 power heads on a 36”. 

I like the auxiliary oiler and I don’t need to buy a bar. 

No to mention the 36” mill with the DE bar runs 153 drivers long. Should get more board feet between sharpenings over a 114 driver link. 36” bar.


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## Husky Man (Mar 23, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> You should have a look at the mill kit they have. It’s a double ended bar with a assist handle.
> 
> Obviously I not thinking of running 2 power heads on a 36”.
> 
> ...



When I thought about it, I wondered if the helper handle was what you were after, but on a 36" bar, I just don't see the need for it.

An Aux Oiler is Nice, but again, on a 36", it shouldn't be needed with either a 661 or 880.

You didn't want a 48" set up, because it would reduce portability, but then add a Helper handle and an Aux Oiler, you lost me there, a few more cutters aren't going to extend your cutting that much IMO, especially in the sub 30" softwood you expect to cut, but it's your set up, so Have FUN and Stay SAFE  


Doug


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## regulate34 (Mar 23, 2020)

Husky Man said:


> When I thought about it, I wondered if the helper handle was what you were after, but on a 36" bar, I just don't see the need for it.
> 
> An Aux Oiler is Nice, but again, on a 36", it shouldn't be needed with either a 661 or 880.
> 
> ...


Aux oil and helper handle add sweet FA to the mill IMO. 

More oil will is never a bad thing.

The helper handle is nice when entering and finishing a slab. 

48” adds 1ft plus weight. 

Im not sure what you classify as portable. But I’ve packed my mill 2km on my back to build bike bridges and foot bridges for work. 

Got to draw the line somewhere. 
I draw it at 36” with a helper handle and aux Oiler. 

My original question was about the power head comparison on a 36” mill. Not try to convince me to buy a 48” mill.


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## Husky Man (Mar 23, 2020)

regulate34 said:


> Aux oil and helper handle add sweet FA to the mill IMO.
> 
> More oil will is never a bad thing.
> 
> ...




From Granberg’s website:

Also includes 50” hardened steel bar (G743-3) with .063 gauge, one loop of .404 .063 chain at 138 links (G730-3


“48” adds a foot and weight “

so a 50” Bar, helper handle and Aux Oiler increases “Portability”????

Your Mill, Your Money, Your Choices

I don’t understand your Logic, but I don’t have to

Have Fun, Stay SAFE

Doug


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## regulate34 (Mar 23, 2020)

Have a good one bud. Wash your hands.


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