# Anyone Having Trouble Finding Climbers?



## 404 in the ATL (Jan 9, 2014)

Here in Atlanta I've been having a horrible time trying to find good climbers. It has gotten so bad I've thought about trying to recruit guys from up north to move to Atlanta. Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## beastmaster (Jan 9, 2014)

I know here in so. Calif. Lots of climbers went back to Mexico when the economy went bad. Now that things are getting better there is a shortage of climbers. A boom for old tree guys like me.


----------



## deevo (Jan 9, 2014)

Same here ! In Toronto and area because of this Ice storm there is a high demand for climbers now! Decent $ and tons of work!!!!


----------



## 404 in the ATL (Jan 9, 2014)

Wow it sounds like I need to travel down south and offer to pay for citizenship!


----------



## MasterBlaster (Jan 9, 2014)

I like how everyone says they're a climber, then you get them in the tree and you're all like WTF?


----------



## 404 in the ATL (Jan 9, 2014)

MasterBlaster said:


> I like how everyone says they're a climber, then you get them in the tree and you're all like WTF?


Every time I laugh at something on this site my Girlfriend calls me a tree loving loser!!


----------



## hseII (Jan 9, 2014)

404 in the ATL said:


> Every time I laugh at something on this site my Girlfriend calls me a tree loving loser!!



Ever Think about Trading Her in on a different model


----------



## MasterBlaster (Jan 9, 2014)

Just tell her SHE can pay the next months bills.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jan 9, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I know here in so. Calif. Lots of climbers went back to Mexico when the economy went bad. Now that things are getting better there is a shortage of climbers. A boom for old tree guys like me.



Yup, sucks. I actually have to work tomorrow,,I will try to get pics to prove it,,lol,,yeah, we need climbers and hard to find,
Jeff


----------



## Sunrise Guy (Jan 9, 2014)

MasterBlaster said:


> I like how everyone says they're a climber, then you get them in the tree and you're all like WTF?


I let a guy try out for a climbing position, last year. I have a course set in my tree, in my front yard. He made it to the first crotch, ten feet up, and then things got funny: He got his lanyard set and that was it. He kept tying and untying knots in his climbing line and looking up and down. Twenty minutes later, and by that time I can do the whole course, he was still standing in that first crotch. "Come on down, man! I thought you told me you were a climber---" "Yeah, but that was a couple of years ago. I guess I forgot everything I knew, since then." "Thanks for stopping by, man. Call me back when you remember everything."


----------



## Sunrise Guy (Jan 9, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Resorting to recruiting yanks? lol Dang, boy that is horrible.


Bad, make that terrible, positioning. How's your lower back doing, these days? Hurts mine, to even look at the pic. (If you stepped back and posed, just for the pic, never mind)


----------



## imagineero (Jan 10, 2014)

It's no easier in aus. I've been trying to find another climber to take some of the easier jobs off me, I'm getting a little worn down climbing every day and running the company too. Tried 3 different climbers last year, one was ok on light trim work but couldn't rig or do big removals, the other two really couldn't even climb. They all wanted pretty big money. Guys fresh out of climbing school are looking for $450/day, and they're pretty awful.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 10, 2014)

Biggest problem is America is training our young people to be lazy. Maybe that will work to a advantage in 20 years being nobody will want to do tree work so the few old guys will be able to make a killing

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 10, 2014)

I will go south what's the pay ? And can you post the trees that I will have to do , I am getting picky now !


----------



## beastmaster (Jan 10, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> I will go south what's the pay ? And can you post the trees that I will have to do , I am getting picky now !



I might head out some where for a few months if the pay was good, but fair warning, I'm mean, stubborn and slow, those are my good points. I can do anything though, better them most.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 10, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I might head out some where for a few months if the pay was good, but fair warning, I'm mean, stubborn and slow, those are my good points. I can do anything though, better them most.


I'm just slow , I'll listen to anything someone has to say . I may not do it .... I may even turn my head like a dog but ....... I won't laugh unless someone else laughs first then all bets are off !


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 10, 2014)

I would hook up the chipper and go to canada ehhhhhhh ! But I heard its cold there I dont look good in a parka , and I heard that other then Canadian bacon the food sucks ! Deevo would prolly slash all my tires and cut my ropes anyway !


----------



## kyle goddard (Jan 10, 2014)

Define a good climber. In my mind i think im good. I set a good pase for my self. Im not crazy fast and im not slow. 

Also i think climbing is a second nature. Knowing how and what to cut is going to determine who is a good climber. At this point in my life i feel i have it all down. One task i can see improving on are reductions. I tend to be slower at them. Oh and sometimes the through ball doesn't always agree with me. Sometimes im right on and other i get so frustrated i want to cut the line into little pieces and burn it.

Anyway back on track, so in your opinion what is a good climber. I always wanted to hear others feedback on this one.

Imo in this order for the most part. Strongest to needing some improvement( for my self) pruning and removals are a tie. Im equally good at them small or large. Tight or open areas. 
Small tree training. Im alright wih that. 
Fruit trees for production. I can do it but i hate it.
Then large to medium reductions. I can use improvement. I think thats it

Oh i love huge spreding trees. Lots of fun to climb. Trim or rec climb.
With that said what is your. Opinion on me as a climber?


----------



## Zale (Jan 10, 2014)

Do you really want a honest answer?


----------



## kyle goddard (Jan 10, 2014)

Sure do.


----------



## imagineero (Jan 10, 2014)

To my mind, a good climber is one who consistently gets the job done efficiently and safely. There are many ways to skin a cat though!

There are many skills that make a good climber, and I'm going to leave out the obvious stuff like not being on drugs, alcholic, not showing up to work etc, and concentrate purely on what makes someone a good climber. There are 4 skills needed in my opinion ; climbing, rigging, cutting and planning.

*Climbing* is the most obvious one, but it's only a small part of the job. Nothing wrong with using a wraptor for example! Younger climbers are often quick, and gutsy, but they often use more energy than they need to due to lack of planning experience. There are many different ways to climb, but a good climber can get to any part of the tree, and position himself for working safely ie. not teeter tottering, tied in with two points of attachment. Small trees are easy enough, but big trees are where it starts to show whether you're any good of a climber. Some climbers have the skill, but not the head for it. Being able to get right out to the tips, getting into awkward positions, using your ropes in clever ways to enable you to reach all parts of the tree. Some guys aren't all that quick at 'climbing' itself, but by using good ropework and planning, they get around the tree just as fast. Bad climbers have none of these characteristics. They're slow, awkward, plan their climb poorly, and use dangerous methods to try to speed themselves up a bit.

*Cutting *getting in the tree is only part of the job. We're in the tree to get some work done right? That work generally involves cutting, whether it's a trim or a removal. For a lot of climbers, cutting is where the game is won or lost. If you're real good with a saw, you have a lot of control. You can fall out big sections in the tree into tight spaces. You may be able to fold branches where another less confident cutter had to rig them - big time difference there! If you know how to flat drop (ie. not fold!) big sections then you can take them out without them bouncing and damaging property. Spearing, jumping, flat dropping, fold, twisting and hinging are all cuts that will let you get work done quick. Production is the name of the game for most companies, and an average climber who is an ace with a saw will get more work done in a day than a guy who is a brilliant fast climber but only knows a couple basic cuts. I know plenty of good climbers that just don't know any cuts. They end up taking out trees in tiny little pieces because they have no control over the pieces they are cutting. You need a lot of experience with different species of trees to know what you can do with them in terms of cuts also.

*Rigging* even the best cutter is going to get into plenty of trees with limited or no LZ. Big trees that are tall will often come down faster than smaller spreading trees assuming they both have the same number of targets underneath, because you can rig out huge sections from tall trees. There's more room to swing things! Lower trees are often more technically difficult. Being good at rigging, and having a good groundie lets you achieve a whole bunch of production, safely. There's bread and butter rigging; quickly establishing 2 pulleys in appropriate places so you've got two lower off points to work, knowing your knots etc... then there's more complex stuff too. Multiple rigging points, floating rigging points, rigging combined with pull ropes, highlining, speedlining, tip and tail lower offs, lifting, and a whole bunch of cool stuff that you can think up if you've got a mind for it.

*Planning* This is where it comes together. Knowing when to cut and when to rig, knowing the order to take a tree apart in, having the experience to know how things are going to unfold and where the dangers are. Lots of older climbers aren't actually great climbers, but they get a lot more production done, efficiently and safely due to their planning. This really comes into play with very large trees, and jobs with multiple trees. The approach you take to the job, and the decisions you make about how to do them can easily halve the time needed or more! Some guys have a natural talent for this, and some don't.

It's rare to find a climber that is gifted in all 4 areas. Most climbers have one or two areas they are talented in, and that's enough for them to achieve production. Truely gifted climbers have talents in all the above


----------



## deevo (Jan 10, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> I would hook up the chipper and go to canada ehhhhhhh ! But I heard its cold there I dont look good in a parka , and I heard that other then Canadian bacon the food sucks ! Deevo would prolly slash all my tires and cut my ropes anyway !


Hey I wouldn't do that too ya big guy! Our poutine is good also! Also have some other good eats. Ever try moose or caribou? Dude Tim Hortons rocks also


----------



## Thillmaine1 (Jan 10, 2014)

I'd travel south for a few months if the money was right. Pm me for more info. CDL A, ISA cert, bucket, crane and manual experience. Rigging proficient.


----------



## Zale (Jan 11, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> Sure do.



Whenever somebody tells me "At this point in my life, I feel I have it all down.", alarm bells go off in my head. There is always something new to learn in our industry. We all have egos, myself included, but don't let your ego get in the way of learning. 

As far as being a climber, I can't comment because I have never seen you climb. You certainly have the beard part down pretty good. You look like a rough and tough tree climber. Stay safe.


----------



## imagineero (Jan 11, 2014)

That might be a bit of an overstatement. Climbers do at some point reach maturity, where they become aware of their own skills and limitations, and know what they are capable of and what is possible to achieve.  Beyond that they really don't develop all that much honestly, there's only so much you can learn. At that point climbers become useful, so long as they don't become complacent or jaded. There really isn't all that much new stuff to learn once you know it. Having said that, 95% of climbers really haven't got there yet, and still have unrealised potential. For those who have reached their potential, the danger comes in tuning out.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jan 11, 2014)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I let a guy try out for a climbing position, last year. I have a course set in my tree, in my front yard. He made it to the first crotch, ten feet up, and then things got funny: He got his lanyard set and that was it. He kept tying and untying knots in his climbing line and looking up and down. Twenty minutes later, and by that time I can do the whole course, he was still standing in that first crotch. "Come on down, man! I thought you told me you were a climber---" "Yeah, but that was a couple of years ago. I guess I forgot everything I knew, since then." "Thanks for stopping by, man. Call me back when you remember everything."


 It is amazing what people will say or do to get a job. I resorted to doing that too, making them go up a tree at my house "dont tell me, show me". Have had lots of guys want to come work for me, only to be a complete tool in the tree. Only one time did I get a kid that was a stud from the word go (wild thing), great climber but had tons of personal issues. Its very hard to get someone that can actually do the work and have it together at home. If ya train someone, and they have the mindset for it, often you just end up training your future competition. In special occasions, you will get the guy that is just naturally dangerous, ya tell him that he needs to find something else to do before he gets killed, instead of taking your advice, he goes out and tries to do this on his own and becomes a notable hack. Always getting hurt or tearing something up.


----------



## kyle goddard (Jan 11, 2014)

Zale said:


> Whenever somebody tells me "At this point in my life, I feel I have it all down.", alarm bells go off in my head. There is always something new to learn in our industry. We all have egos, myself included, but don't let your ego get in the way of learning.
> 
> As far as being a climber, I can't comment because I have never seen you climb. You certainly have the beard part down pretty good. You look like a rough and tough tree climber. Stay safe.



When i said i have it all down i mean that i have the tools in my head to figure out what ever task i have at hand.

As far as learning. It never stops. I can go on and on.

That being said id like to get the new study guide to become CA. The one i have now is the 1992 edition thats was my fathers.
Im in now rush , im happy where im at for now.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm in a rush now I've heard they've dumbed it down for the Mexicans to pass .... So I am gonna register this month , hopefully they have a test date mid spring then I am gonna come on here and throw my credentials around and no one will question my madness because I'm "certified"


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 11, 2014)

They have one at the end of February at the penn del isa trade show in lancaster, pa.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


----------



## treeman75 (Jan 11, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> I'm in a rush now I've heard they've dumbed it down for the Mexicans to pass .... So I am gonna register this month , hopefully they have a test date mid spring then I am gonna come on here and throw my credentials around and no one will question my madness because I'm "certified"


Does NJ have a state cert, you might want to check with them. Iowa doesnt have much of a arb program but Neb and SD do and Sioux City goes into both states. Im getting mine from SD and think people around here will recognize it more than the ISA.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 11, 2014)

treeman75 said:


> Does NJ have a state cert, you might want to check with them. Iowa doesnt have much of a arb program but Neb and SD do and Sioux City goes into both states. Im getting mine from SD and think people around here will recognize it more than the ISA.


Supposedly there is a state test that makes you a state certified master arborist , kinda like a master plumber . But this state makes up all kinda of rules and regs and then can't enforce them so I have given up on there requests so I am just gonna do it through the ISA I guess even though I can't really stand them and then see if it grandfathers me in on any up and coming state license


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jan 11, 2014)

Go for the ISA one, way more recognized. State ones don't necessarily reflect what a Arborist should be or know, rather, they want to make sure you know the state regs for contractors, the Arb info that they do have, is basically cut and pasted from the ISA anyhow. Iowa really does not have anything. Why its like the wild west, full of wackjobs and hackers. We have the IAA, it is a small outfit, but good. T-75, you should join, only 25 doll hairs.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jan 11, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> When i said i have it all down i mean that i have the tools in my head to figure out what ever task i have at hand.
> 
> As far as learning. It never stops. I can go on and on.
> 
> ...


That 1992 book is probably harder than the new ones. Also, u guys need to check and see if you have the computer based exams close to you, if so, you can take it anytime. Before I was called back to play Jarhead, I had set up testing several times, over the course of several years, paid the money and was all set. Then something would happen that would prevent me from going and I would miss the date. Funerals, storms, etc. When I came home, I called to set up another, learned about the computer deal and drove about 2 miles from my house. Think they are called Pearson Testing.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jan 11, 2014)

With all that said. If you do go and get ur certs, don't be like the dycks around here and get it just for the paper. Practice the way of the force. Here, they still top trees and spike prunes. Trim oaks middle of summer, anything to make some coin, no ethics whatsoever. If you actually read and retain it, you will be better for it.


----------



## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> That being said id like to get the new study guide to become CA. The one i have now is the 1992 edition thats was my fathers.



Don't waste your money buying a new one. The 1992 ed. is all I have, and all you need.
Mine has been dog-eared and underlined and highlighted to death.


----------



## kyle goddard (Jan 11, 2014)

I would never spike a prune. Unless it had a huge dead top and i was going to block it out. No spiking what im preserving. I also would never top a tree. I had done it years ago. Shame on me. I have refrained from it. Im not afraid to admit i have made lots of mistakes. Not only in tree care. If it wasnt for huge life changes i would not be on here talking with you all. Im happy to say im much better at evening i do clean and sober. All the time.


----------



## kyle goddard (Jan 11, 2014)

I would never spike a prune. Unless it had a huge dead top and i was going to block it out. No spiking what im preserving. I also would never top a tree. I had done it years ago. Shame on me. I have refrained from it. Im not afraid to admit i have made lots of mistakes. Not only in tree care. If it wasnt for huge life changes i would not be on here talking with you all. Im happy to say im much better at evening i do clean and sober. All the time.


----------



## 404 in the ATL (Jan 11, 2014)

I've had the idea of trying to recruit military personal like Rangers or recon, someone who has had lots of experience with ropes. Then training them in climbing. Any thoughts?


----------



## imagineero (Jan 12, 2014)

I think the market is very different in the US from how it is in aus. We also have a different qualification system. We have chainsaw tickets, which you can pick up in a day or two - levels 1 through 5. They're about $600 a go, and get increasingly more complex. Level 2 is like basic cross cutting and chainsaw maintenace (sharpening), 3 is basic falling right up to 5 which is more complex falling. Forest workers tend to get these tickets, but sometimes ground workers will get a chainsaw cert also.

Then we have a certificate in arboriculture, there is no level 1 or level 4. There's 2, 3 and 5. Level 2 & 3 are for what we call 'utility arborists' which doesn't mean they do utility work, it just means they do tree work as opposed to consulting work. Level 2 takes 12 months, one day a week. It's 6 months theory and 6 months climbing and is intended to be paired with actual work experience but it isn't a requirement. You learn all the basics; setting ropes, knots, basic climbing, spiking, saw operation, use of a flipline, basic cutting techniques with a handsaw and chainsaw and basic pruning and rigging. In theory you learn tree structure, tree species, soils, diseases, occupational health and safety and basic tree inspection as well as a few other subjects. Level 3 is much the same but more advanced and also requires 12 months with the 6/6 split of climbing and theory but more advanced than level 2.  It also covers aerial rescue. If you're an experienced tree worker you can get exemption for some, or all of the course depending on your skills and knowledge. The delivery of the courses depends on the instructors and can be excellent or very poor. The quality of the students also varies greatly. Some have been climbing 20+ years and are veteran experts who just need the ticket for work. Some have never used a saw in their life. At the end of level 3, some guys still are unable to perform even the most basic take down with any sort of competence, while some we already competent before entering the classes. The ratio of good climbers to guys who will never deserve to get paid work seems to be about 15:1, and the 1 was already competent before he got there. 

Level 5 is 2 years of straight theory and is intended for consulting arborists. Aside from all that we also have other tickets for electrical work (CATT) and tickets for cherry picker work etc.

What I see a lot of with the guys going to school is that they aren't working in the industry at all, like not even one day. They do 2 years study to get their level 3, and think they can walk into $500/day contract work. They've never dragged a branch in their life, and aren't interested in starting at the bottom. They get a very rude shock when they do bluff their way into a climbing job at the end of it all and are fired in less than an hour! These guys aren't climbers at all, and have no concept of climbing or production tree work. They also seem to have that unfortunately typical attitude of younger australians that they really aren't interested in doing any sort of hard work at all, they just want big money for a very small effort. Otherwise they couldn't be bothered. 

I've had some luck with hiring untrained guys and training them up. They start at minimum wage, and if they turn up to work every day and do a good job then after a few months i send them off to get a chainsaw ticket and buy them a pair of chaps. If they keep showing interest and working, I train them up in saw use, running ropes, chipping, knots, tree species, basic pruning and basic falling. If they're still around after 9 months and show some interest and have picked up all the basics then I let them start doing basic climbing. No cutting, just getting in and around the tree. From there, they might do a little handsaw pruning. After a year I send them off to level 2 training, and they're very far ahead of the curve. The last guy I sent off was the only guy to get exempted in his class from saw training. 

If I'm lucky I can then hang on to them for a further 6 months and get some return from all that training Ive put in by having them do basic climbs while I'm doing other trees. After a year and a half I pretty much have to cut them loose though, they either go to get a better paying job with a bigger company, or start out doing their own work. It's a never ending cycle.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Jan 12, 2014)

I think part of the problem is the wages available to be paid to these climbers. They aren't high enough to entice young guys/girls who would make good climbers to enter the industry. We recently had a young guy, smart, ready to learn to climb, but also had his welding ticket. Ended up getting a welding job in a mill for 3x what he was making and twice what our top climbers make. We also had a top foreman leave to drive forklift in a warehouse for significantly more money/work out of the weather/no off days etc. What I'm saying is for talented people (then ones we are trying to entice into the industry) there are much easier ways to make the same money.

We've also lost a couple of guys to municipal crews, where the lowest paid groundman makes about the same as our senior foremen. And as one guy described the workload, take the easiest day at your company and spread it over three days. 

Until we can elevate the professionalism of the industry to the point where climbers are considered on par with plumbers/electricians etc then we are going to have difficulty having our customers be willing to pay those labour rates. 

If you consider plumbers/electricans etc, when people are going to use these trades, for the most part they have to pull a permit from the local government, then the work has to be inspected at the end of the project by the municipal building/electrical/plumbing inspector. If tree work was considered in the same perspective, then having your work inspected would allow an increase in rates.


----------



## imagineero (Jan 12, 2014)

I've long held the belief that tree work is under priced by a large margin as compared to any other qualified trade. Seems like there's money coming in because cash is changing hands, but when you go over the books at the end of the year it's easy to see there was very little. You don't even need to go over the books just look at how tree guys are generally living, how many hours we work, and how much money we have in the bank. In aus, very few even buy our own houses; we mostly rent.


----------



## beastmaster (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm glad someone brought up the money issue. Average pay around here is 15.00 an hour. Why would anyone on the ball and with half a brain want to get involved in this industry? And people wonder why most climbers are ex cons, drunks, tweekers, and are unreliable. In and out burgers pays 15.00 an hour, those guys that twirl those signs make 12.00 and hour. mean while painters make 25 to 30.00 an hour, truck drivers make double what a climber makes.
I know thats a generalization and there are lots of exceptions, true. But its not that far off the mark. I love what I do, I have a good reputation, I'm reliable, and I make more then most climbers around here, but if my wife wasn't a computer programer, I wouldn't have the luxury of being in debt up to my eyeballs and at lest have a home and be able to help my kids with college.


----------



## mckeetree (Jan 12, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> I've heard they've dumbed it down for the Mexicans to pass ....



That's what I understand has happened.


----------



## mckeetree (Jan 12, 2014)

I have thought many times about bringing a climber in from "up north" but my problem is they want to work here in the winter where they can avoid the real cold weather up north and that is the time we don't have a lot of work...from Xmas until around first day of Spring. By then there is plenty of work everywhere and not much interest in coming here. There are lots of illegal alien climbers around here but I'm not going that route...although many tree companies in Dallas and I won't mention them here seem to think that is the way to go.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 12, 2014)

imagineero said:


> I've long held the belief that tree work is under priced by a large margin as compared to any other qualified trade. Seems like there's money coming in because cash is changing hands, but when you go over the books at the end of the year it's easy to see there was very little. You don't even need to go over the books just look at how tree guys are generally living, how many hours we work, and how much money we have in the bank. In aus, very few even buy our own houses; we mostly rent.


I made very good money in the past , now I exist I save money all summer to carry me through 2/2.5 months of hard times , now I am faced with college .... Worst case scenario 2 kids in at once ! For instance I was gonna really spend some money on the trucks and I got hot with braces ! LOL my wife is in school full time and I am carrying all of it ! Scary for me


----------



## kyle goddard (Jan 12, 2014)

Money is funny. I have been offered many job. Some would pay better. Sometimes i thinks about them jobs when im removing a crispy crispy tree. 
Then i remember how much i love this trade. I turned other jobs down because i would down right miserable. There is an inner peace i have doing tree work. Especially climbing.


----------



## 404 in the ATL (Jan 12, 2014)

We pay 20 to 27 an hour. We work all year and duing the summer we work dawn to dusk. A few of our climbers cleared 60k last year.

We need climbers by the way!!


----------



## treeman75 (Jan 12, 2014)

I learned a long time ago if your going to make it you have to save up for winter. I dont think I could go back punching a time clock again


----------



## BC WetCoast (Jan 13, 2014)

I think Beastmaster summed it up well in terms of job competition. We are not talking about why we do this job and not some other (like punching a clock) but rather how do we entice young, intelligent go-getters into the industry.

I think there needs to be training colleges, so companies aren't stuck with the cost of training. Yes, for a while those graduating will think they are hot stuff and demand huge money immediately, but over time there will be an evolution where grads will understand that like lawyers/accountants/engineers who article first, there is an on-the-job training component required.


----------



## Pelorus (Jan 13, 2014)

mckeetree said:


> I have thought many times about bringing a climber in from "up north" but my problem is they want to work here in the winter where they can avoid the real cold weather up north and that is the time we don't have a lot of work...from Xmas until around first day of Spring. By then there is plenty of work everywhere and not much interest in coming here. There are lots of illegal alien climbers around here but I'm not going that route...although many tree companies in Dallas and I won't mention them here seem to think that is the way to go.



Have you ever imported any legit workers from south of the Rio Grande? 
There must be loads of them willing to work their butts off to support families back home, for wages that Americans /Canadians wouldn't work for.


----------



## mckeetree (Jan 13, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> Have you ever imported any legit workers from south of the Rio Grande?
> There must be loads of them willing to work their butts off to support families back home, for wages that Americans /Canadians wouldn't work for.



I don't really think there are any legit workers from south of the Rio Grande to import.


----------



## futbalfantic (Jan 13, 2014)

$15-$20 hr isn't good money? And what position was that for?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 14, 2014)

futbalfantic said:


> $15-$20 hr isn't good money? And what position was that for?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


$15-$20 is what most ground guys get around here.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


----------



## futbalfantic (Jan 14, 2014)

2treeornot2tree said:


> $15-$20 is what most ground guys get around here.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk



I call that good money. I am a paramedic in a 1mil response area and make 18.xx an hour and you can be paid ALOT less in smaller areas. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 14, 2014)

A good climber around here makes $20-$30 a hour.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 14, 2014)

Yea and we all know a good climber is like a unicorn , your in awe when you see them ....... But after that they never show back up for a long time ! I always say that all the good ones are taken the scraps are what you find lingering about bouncing from place to place so when someone says I know a good climber looking for work I really pay no mind .


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jan 14, 2014)

Interesting thread, 
Jeff


----------



## imagineero (Jan 15, 2014)

I sometimes wonder what kind of money I'd do full time climbing work for. I think it would have to be at least $1500 a week, or maybe $1500 plus a vehicle and fuel allowance. Realistically, I could go back to contract climbing and charge $550-$600 a day and get 2 or 3 days a week then get one more day doing my own small job. That's obviously turning up with all my own gear. I don't even know that I want to have a full time climbing job, at least not one where they slay me every day. But they do need to pump out some big numbers to pay $1500 a week to a climber. 

I've given some thought to just going back to contract climbing at the end of this year maybe, and give up running my own company. When things go well, I might make $800 a day after all expenses, but things don't always go well. I don't think the extra $200 a day compared with contracting really covers the stress, extra hours, quoting, bookwork, liability, risk, dealing with staff, breakdowns, and the endless unexpected costs associated with running a company. I know I had a lot more spare time to enjoy my life when I was contracting, and I think I ended up with more money at the end of the year. 

That said, I'd hire myself for $1500 a week if i could find me


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 15, 2014)

imagineero said:


> I sometimes wonder what kind of money I'd do full time climbing work for. I think it would have to be at least $1500 a week, or maybe $1500 plus a vehicle and fuel allowance. Realistically, I could go back to contract climbing and charge $550-$600 a day and get 2 or 3 days a week then get one more day doing my own small job. That's obviously turning up with all my own gear. I don't even know that I want to have a full time climbing job, at least not one where they slay me every day. But they do need to pump out some big numbers to pay $1500 a week to a climber.
> 
> I've given some thought to just going back to contract climbing at the end of this year maybe, and give up running my own company. When things go well, I might make $800 a day after all expenses, but things don't always go well. I don't think the extra $200 a day compared with contracting really covers the stress, extra hours, quoting, bookwork, liability, risk, dealing with staff, breakdowns, and the endless unexpected costs associated with running a company. I know I had a lot more spare time to enjoy my life when I was contracting, and I think I ended up with more money at the end of the year.
> 
> That said, I'd hire myself for $1500 a week if i could find me


No offense but id hire a spider lift for that kinda money !


----------



## treeclimber101 (Jan 15, 2014)

imagineero said:


> I sometimes wonder what kind of money I'd do full time climbing work for. I think it would have to be at least $1500 a week, or maybe $1500 plus a vehicle and fuel allowance. Realistically, I could go back to contract climbing and charge $550-$600 a day and get 2 or 3 days a week then get one more day doing my own small job. That's obviously turning up with all my own gear. I don't even know that I want to have a full time climbing job, at least not one where they slay me every day. But they do need to pump out some big numbers to pay $1500 a week to a climber.
> 
> I've given some thought to just going back to contract climbing at the end of this year maybe, and give up running my own company. When things go well, I might make $800 a day after all expenses, but things don't always go well. I don't think the extra $200 a day compared with contracting really covers the stress, extra hours, quoting, bookwork, liability, risk, dealing with staff, breakdowns, and the endless unexpected costs associated with running a company. I know I had a lot more spare time to enjoy my life when I was contracting, and I think I ended up with more money at the end of the year.
> 
> That said, I'd hire myself for $1500 a week if i could find me


No offense but id hire a spider lift for that kinda money !


----------



## Terry Warlick (Jan 15, 2014)

Down here in the south the climbers don't have teeth or a drivers license or equipment. That usually tells you something


----------



## zogger (Jan 15, 2014)

I am not a tree guy, just cruising the saite and saw this thread..... I have done non technical recreational climbing, some rock climbing, and some steel work and rigging. I would like to learn tree work even now, but sorta getting long in the tooth and not as spry as I used to be..

with that said, my experience with Atlanta and tree work, quite limited.

So, I lived around metro area for a long time, twice I was offered to come in on the ground floor for arborists, regular deal, groundie, learn to climb eventually. fine, sounds like fun, offered pay better than what I was making..... I show up, the tree is saturated in poison ivy. Told the guys, no thanks man, can't pay me enough to soak in poison ivy all day. Once in awhile, sure, stuff happens, but not every day day in and day out. Nasty stuff. I guess it makes me a wuss of sorts, but...ain't worth it, even 500 bucks a day wouldn't be worth it to me to have PI constantly.

Weird post, huh? Maybe not even thought about, but..you look at the trees in Atlanta, you either got to be immune or "chemically enhanced" and nuts to do that all the time, so that might be a reason why a lack of climbers in Atlanta. Certainly isn't lack of work there, so..must be other reasons.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jan 15, 2014)

other reason's,
Jeff


----------



## treevet (Jan 16, 2014)

The basic income the average tree company, like mine, makes wouldn't be worth staying in the game, I agree...but the big pokes that come in unexpectedly and welcomely, are what does it for me...A tree stuck in a roof, an EAB infestation, huge tree over wires and roof, tree in the process of falling down or apart , ice storm, wind storm, very rich person that wants the work done right now when you are backed up, etc etc...

Many many things that I do during the year are WAY spiked up costs for the buyer. Supply and demand. I am gonna nail em and do it with grace and a smile and they are going to think they are getting the best thing they ever bought and will call me back...but they got nailed, it makes business bearable...even exiting aaaand...most of all...very profitable and worth perpetuating.

re imagineero


----------



## treevet (Jan 16, 2014)

# 7,000, I'm comin after ya Jeffy


----------



## treevet (Jan 16, 2014)

zogger said:


> I am not a tree guy, just cruising the saite and saw this thread..... I have done non technical recreational climbing, some rock climbing, and some steel work and rigging. I would like to learn tree work even now, but sorta getting long in the tooth and not as spry as I used to be..
> 
> with that said, my experience with Atlanta and tree work, quite limited.
> 
> ...



Sure you're not mixing up with English ivy?


----------



## zogger (Jan 16, 2014)

treevet said:


> Sure you're not mixing up with English ivy?



I know there is a lot of english ivy and like virginia creeper and so on around, I recognize a lot of plants, just the two different jbsites and companies I went to go look at the offer, the trees were crawling with it. I wanted to learn the work, love climbing and cutting, but I get it too severe to not be able to turn down this job or that if it was too nasty. 

One job I looked at was in grant park, the other one in avondale estates.

The cutting I do here on this farm, for example, I am couple hundred trees behind (my pay is fixed, I get no more or no less fromt doing the trees, just when I feel like it..), half of them marked in the woods, I go around a year or more ahead of time, hatchet off the PI vines (they are hairy and quite distinctive as you know), then come back after dried as they can get, and rip them out of the trees, as much as possible. I can cut then. 

You just can't do that commercial cutting.

Just came in from felling a 49 inch oak stub in my yard, standing dead, semi rotten. I killed the PI a few years ago and have stripped the vines off of it. Just felt like doing some close by cutting today. PI is long gone, vines off the tree for the most part, and sprayed around the base.

I am not razzing you guys or anything, just thought I would throw in one more possible reason why you might not be able to get climbers. Besides so-so pay except for the best, cost of living in atlanta, urban areas in general not as nice as rural areas to live and work, the job is *hard* and dangerous, and etc. and bennies, how many companies have bennies?

All of the above and more.


----------



## Sunrise Guy (Jan 18, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Pffft. Already positioned for the _next_ cut.
> 
> 
> 
> Get your back checked.



LMAO, and you know why: You changed the pic, or cropped the one you had up, so your back-breaking, incorrect stance, is no longer shown.


----------



## Sunrise Guy (Jan 18, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Don't want you picking up bad habits.



I appreciate it, my brother. Stay safe!


----------



## GlenWimpy (Jan 19, 2014)

I have trouble finding climbers! Lots of guys that can take 30 mins to get a limb 20 ft high! Then they need to rest for an hour! Most of the good climbers are old, by Noon they want to go home.......Most of the good Mexican climbers have gone back south of the Border! Good Climbers make $350 a day in Memphis! Groundmen make 100/125 a day......Bucket guy can make 200 a day.........but you can't find workers.......Americans want work, most of the Mexicans have left!


----------



## lxt (Jan 19, 2014)

GlenWimpy said:


> I have trouble finding climbers! Lots of guys that can take 30 mins to get a limb 20 ft high! Then they need to rest for an hour! Most of the good climbers are old, by Noon they want to go home.......Most of the good Mexican climbers have gone back south of the Border! Good Climbers make $350 a day in Memphis! Groundmen make 100/125 a day......Bucket guy can make 200 a day.........but you can't find workers.......Americans want work, most of the Mexicans have left!


 
I agree....BUT most mexicans I have seen climb are dangerous & their lack of english puts them in a position of not understanding, the new generation is a product of new rules & Guidelines.... & they sure as hell know them & will bring them to your attention, as was said earlier good climbers are not hard to find theyre impossible to find.

The tree biz has become a game of how low can ya go & most want their help to work harder/faster for 1990 wages, you train a guy & he becomes good he also becomes your competition, I still do tree work as a sideline cause people cant find a good reputable company or individual that knows what theyre doing , you cant bring on a future prospect for your biz, abuse him & pay the guy $125-$150 a day on a 95deg day or 10 degree day, he can make that at lowes or enough that he dont have to work hard & sweat!

This is one of the reasons I went to work full time for the local electric utility, After my heart surgery I tried to work on the biz instead of working in it, I found out real quick what the future of tree work would be & I figured it would be better to downsize & pick N choose what I want to do, I have lost a step here n There from the surgery but I am still better than those who suround me claiming to be the best, as long as I make it home every night.....Im good! & I hope my competition along with those entering this trade do the same!


Be Safe

LXT.....


----------



## GlenWimpy (Jan 19, 2014)

lxt said:


> I agree....BUT most mexicans I have seen climb are dangerous & their lack of english puts them in a position of not understanding, the new generation is a product of new rules & Guidelines.... & they sure as hell know them & will bring them to your attention, as was said earlier good climbers are not hard to find theyre impossible to find.
> 
> The tree biz has become a game of how low can ya go & most want their help to work harder/faster for 1990 wages, you train a guy & he becomes good he also becomes your competition, I still do tree work as a sideline cause people cant find a good reputable company or individual that knows what theyre doing , you cant bring on a future prospect for your biz, abuse him & pay the guy $125-$150 a day on a 95deg day or 10 degree day, he can make that at lowes or enough that he dont have to work hard & sweat!
> 
> ...




True, but I have some good Mexicans, who are legal, speak perfect english, know lots of fancy knots and tricks who are GREAT CLIMBERS!


----------



## mckeetree (Jan 19, 2014)

lxt said:


> The tree biz has become a game of how low can ya go



And that's the fundamental problem ALL of the other problems in this business trickle down from. There has been a good many conversations launched on here from time to time concerning the subject with some members cranking out some pretty ridiculous comments but you called it right...it's a game of how low can you go.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jan 20, 2014)

If it takes some one 30 minutes to get up 20ft, they are no climber.


----------



## crotchclimber (Jan 25, 2014)

zogger said:


> how many companies have bennies?


 Can anyone answer this? I was wondering the same.


----------



## zogger (Jan 25, 2014)

crotchclimber said:


> Can anyone answer this? I was wondering the same.




I can't answer that. Bennies in general are falling by the wayside all over.

What I can say is if was a top notch climber, I would be hard pressed to work for someone else when I could be self employed, run the business, and make all the (net) money myself.


----------



## zapblam (Jan 25, 2014)

Can you make a living off your employees wage? If your losing good employees, they cant. If you cant find good employees, they wont.


----------



## 404 in the ATL (Jan 25, 2014)

zapblam said:


> Can you make a living off your employees wage? If your losing good employees, they cant. If you cant find good employees, they wont.



I'm the operations manager and the Climbers make a good bit more then me.


----------



## adronetree (Jan 25, 2014)

404 in the ATL said:


> Here in Atlanta I've been having a horrible time trying to find good climbers. It has gotten so bad I've thought about trying to recruit guys from up north to move to Atlanta. Anyone else having this problem?


Yeah Bob please dont bring any more northerners down here. I think my 4 hours a day in traffic with all the wack jobs in Atlanta is about all I can handle. Lets not make it 5 hours.


----------



## zogger (Jan 25, 2014)

adronetree said:


> Yeah Bob please dont bring any more northerners down here. I think my 4 hours a day in traffic with all the wack jobs in Atlanta is about all I can handle. Lets not make it 5 hours.



That's another probable reason, the traffic in atlanta sucks..along with the "ambiance". 

I don't miss Atlanta one teeny iota.


----------



## lxt (Jan 26, 2014)

GlenWimpy said:


> True, but I have some good Mexicans, who are legal, speak perfect english, know lots of fancy knots and tricks who are GREAT CLIMBERS!


 
very rare & if true you oughtta sub em out & make a fortune? fancy knots & tricks? along with being GREAT climbers????? not sure what you mean by that other than they prolly know how to do it right(very rare) ??? I would think they`re prolly all around decent as many in this treade who have years in would tell you fancy knots are used every day along with tricks of the trade...... its just normal tree stuff!!!, the next problem is having them wear PPE & understand the A300 or minimum approach distances in regard to energized powerlines.

sad thing is the aforementioned not many tree care service owners even know..........just watch Big Bad Wood, but if you have as you say then I hope you`re paying them accordingly? good luck N Stay Safe!!!


LXT.........


----------



## TreeBoi4Life (Jan 27, 2014)

Thats so true. Two or three weeks in the whole when you get a "job", taxed checks, 20-30 hours(so they don't have to pay benefits, etc.) unreasonably streched over 6 days, depressed employees or customers, all for what one good tree job can pay for a few miserable weeks punching a clock. Being slow hurts temporally until the headache of a back log of jobs come but it kills us or at least me to feel unappreciated helping a big company get rich when I have a trade like this one. It comes down to what's been mentioned being wise with our "Hard Earned Money" which is different everywhere you go do to our ever changing economy.

Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jan 27, 2014)

lxt said:


> very rare & if true you oughtta sub em out & make a fortune? fancy knots & tricks? along with being GREAT climbers????? not sure what you mean by that other than they prolly know how to do it right(very rare) ??? I would think they`re prolly all around decent as many in this treade who have years in would tell you fancy knots are used every day along with tricks of the trade...... its just normal tree stuff!!!, the next problem is having them wear PPE & understand the A300 or minimum approach distances in regard to energized powerlines.
> 
> sad thing is the aforementioned not many tree care service owners even know..........just watch Big Bad Wood, but if you have as you say then I hope you`re paying them accordingly? good luck N Stay Safe!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jan 27, 2014)

Get a good op's guy,,,,
Jeff,,


----------



## treecutterjr (Jan 27, 2014)

I think its hard to find good help all the way around: climbers or ground guys or even anyone with half a brain. I'm 29 and nobody my age wants to do this kind of work or even anything remotely LIKE work. All the ones that will work and may know a little something are getting OLD (no offense old people) and tree work really is a young mans game (no offense old people)

If they are any good they are already taken. I second that. There are a lot of "c-" climbers that are floating around out here working a day here or a day there. Most have some kind of problem or something. Substance abuse, undependable, SOMETHING. If they are any good they are trying to do their own thing or are somewhere else.

To be honest: to get "grade A" employees you need to be a grade A company your self: offering grade A wages and grade A work place. And to offer those things you need to be making "Grade A" money & picking up A grade customers!
hard to do that though because PRICES are steadily going down and competition is steadily going up.

In 2014 and moving forward I am focusing on becoming more efficient with my business practices and focusing on getting some better "A+" equipment that allows me to eliminate my "c" team and maybe make ends meet with less: labor-wise.

that's just my opinion.


----------



## imagineero (Jan 28, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Why does a market with steadily decreasing profits attract more competition?



Because it isn't just our industry; it's the economy as a whole. Folks who are hard up for money and need to eat and pay their rent start thinking how they can make a dollar. Layed off work, hours cut back their own business not going so well or for a hundred other reasons, people start thinking how they can make a dollar. Most industries are facing this kind of competition now.... it's bad enough for tree guys, but how do you think it is for fire wood guys, demolition guys, yard cleanup guys, lawn guys, roofing guys etc etc etc... Guys start thinking "I've got a mower" or "i've got a chainsaw" or "I've got a pickup" and how can i make some money from that. It's a beautiful thing in a way, but in another it kind of reminds you of the grapes of wrath 

“You're bound to get idears if you go thinkin' about stuff” 
― John Steinbeck, _The Grapes of Wrath_


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 28, 2014)

Since I put my new ad in the phone book I have had two climbers call me looking for work. The last one is isa certified. 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


----------



## imagineero (Jan 28, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> I've been affected by all the scenarios you have mentioned. I've seen the common labor market get flooded by those forced to leave a more specialized trade when their gravy boat got docked. Tree care is specialized, don't get me wrong. However, most of the landscape type trades tend to get lumped together with agricultural type pursuits.
> 
> There *used to be* a theory of business which was illustrated by pie. You could slice up the pie for four guys and divide it equally until one of them found a way to increase his share. Then when a couple of them did it, one guy got jettisoned or simply left for another pie. Employers use smoke and mirrors to convince a guy he can't have a share, though the ambitious ones see through it. As more and more guys jump on, the pie they are disputing simply falls off the table and sticks all over the floor. Now the current thinking in business is not how to get a bigger slice of the pie but rather how do we make the entire pie bigger. (Diversify.) We can weed out the pussies and the good ones will drive the technology. Sounds good on paper, except very few people want to work. And fewer people give one #[email protected] about trees.



That theory fell by the wayside when they realized it was pure horse ****. Start out reading Peter Drucker and see how you go.


----------



## treecutterjr (Jan 28, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Why does a market with steadily decreasing profits attract more competition?



And the are no barriers to entry in the tree industry. If I'm sittIng around broke but I have a pick up and a chainsaw "I'm a tree man, now!"
Its good on the one hand because everyone started out that way but on the other handnce you become an established company you realize there is nothing safe gaurding our industry. 

The other trades are a good example. I can't go grab a wrench And run around saying i'm a plumber or an electricianor an hv/ac contractor because then I'd need a license, and to get that I'd need to go take the test and work for some one so long, then be a journey man, then what ever comes next, then 10 years later I might become a master plumber/ electrician or whatever. In our industry and some others (lawns/roofers/some general contacting) you can just come in with LITERALLY nothing and start competing from day one. 

I understand that's just part of the business and ive come to the conclusion that you must continually grow as a business in order to combat all the entry level competition that arises each year. 

On the regular residential tree trimming tree removalside there are hundreds of competing tree services trying to all get the same jobs. But here for example one you step up a level to the land clearing (large scale) and recycling of material into mulch or bio fuel, there are only a handful of company's that can even do that kind of stuff. So it looks to me like that's the direction to head towards because not everyonecan follow. 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


----------



## gtrees (Jan 28, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> When i said i have it all down i mean that i have the tools in my head to figure out what ever task i have at hand.
> 
> As far as learning. It never stops. I can go on and on.
> 
> ...


----------



## bobbynbray (Mar 25, 2014)

Same problem here in New Orleans the only way you can teach the younger generation to climb is to make it a x box game ! This is why I'm looking in to a back yard lift so it will take some of the load of me 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ropensaddle (Oct 7, 2017)

The answer is instead of attempting to hire climbers for x amount per hour your bids should include contract climbing pay. Many small tree services throughout the country have slow times or are willing to take on extra work. We need to organize a cooperative for logistics to dispatch and trade rendered service. It needs legal parameters to protect the client from potential theft of advertising but it could work if its done right. Sorta a union but more like a club with clear definitions of expected performance in field operations I/E following ansi and no betrayal of client assigned area "side work" if caught immediate expel out of system etc. Contractor climbers expected to insure their own work general contractor expected to pay service rendered and may provide ground crew and insure their work as well.


----------



## beastmaster (Oct 8, 2017)

At 59 years old, thanks to all the young climbers out there. No offence young climbers, all i have to do is get on the phone any place im at and make a few calls and im working. It's not often I meet a true professional. Lots of owner operators out there suck too. Lots of greed in this industry. I mean if you can't pay a good climber at lest 200 a day, stop complaining about nothing but tweeters and losers applying for work.
You can get 10.00 an hour at in and out burger. Why would a sharp hard working kid stay in a field where there is no future but poor pay and injurys. Where is the incentive.


----------



## domonick (Oct 10, 2017)

They're pretty good hires down here in FL


----------



## island edge (Oct 14, 2017)

Get a treemek it doesn't complain about previous injuries, and such, and it shows up on time.


----------



## Cody Willard (Oct 26, 2017)

I might be an example.

About me: I am 25 years old and have been climbing since I was 17. I have a wife and kids and have a crazy stable life and strong character. I am a certified arborist and have been studying the last two years to achieve my BCMA which I'm eligible for in another year and a half. After I have passed my BCMA I will start working towards become becoming a Registered Consulting Arborist. I have done numerous technical removals with GCRS's, tri-vector, speedline, sideline, negative blocked, preservation pruning, crane assisted removals, bucket truck work, cable and bracing, etc.

I would say I have personally cared for or removed 6000-5500 trees so far.

I currently make $17.00 an hour as a lead climber/foreman and will be topped out at 18.00 once I get my BCMA. Many of my consulting skills of value go unused, as I mostly just cut stuff off trees. I am there only climber and 6 hours a day climbing is to much, we also can't find ground guys so the Company I work for has been using a staffing service like Standby Personel to give me a groundman everyday. Almost daily I have to train each new person I get how to use a chipper, how to tie a saw on the rope, where gas and oil goes in the saw, the most basic tasks I generally have been having to teach to a new person every day, only to get someone different the next day. I am a highly efficient climber compared to most, but with my perpetually ill-equipped ground men, especially when it comes to any simple rigging, my production sometimes gets cut by 50% 

I did a large crane removal last week, and after we're finished the crane operator came up to me and try to get me apply to their crane company, he said I was a animal and they're looking for animals that can climb places and understand rigging loads, he said with my experience I could start out as a "third year rigging apprentice" most likely making $25.00 per hour and can work my way up in pay. 

I am currently working on my application..... Now I am looking into crane work as a partial career and just doing side work on the weekends or if I get laid off.


----------



## Del_ (Oct 26, 2017)

Sounds great Cody!

I bet self employment is in your near future.

It should be.


----------



## Zale (Oct 29, 2017)

Cody- you can do much better for yourself.


----------



## Cody Willard (Oct 29, 2017)

Thanks guys. I plan on starting my own company in the next year or two. Of course starting out small and having spotty work the first few years I will have even more problems keeping employees compared to well established companys. But no bussiness starts easy! 

I wish I could stay a "good employee" for a company forever but I have to realize I am making about as much as I ever will and though 27,000 a year is not bad, it's hard for a small family.

450 a week was easy to live off of when I was single, then I got married and things got tight, I got a raise to 500ish a week, then we adopted our son, we lost the 500 a month reimbursement we received for being foster parents so things got tight again, then we had our youngest son and I got bumped up to about 540 a week but things are still pay check to pay check and side work is needed for any suprise bills, $7000 adoption lawyer costs, Etc.

It will be rough when I have an employee like me someday that has to leave but it hits a point where your skill set exceedes your pay, also hits a point when your knowledge exceeds your job description and it goes unused, and though we are making our bills just fine, who knows what life will throw at us, and chances are, it will cost more money


----------



## earlthegoat2 (Nov 9, 2017)

You are worth way more than that down here. Inexperienced climbers (6 months to a year) will usually be able to pull 25/hr. Cost of living is not outrageous either so that is already considered.

I'm not a real climber. I only climb if I can use gaffs. So imminent removals is all I really do and that is infrequent. I am an equipment mechanic for a land clearing/development/landscaping company. I am really starting to think about becoming a real climbing arborist though. Mostly because I am so disgusted with a few of the so called tree professionals around here.


----------



## island edge (Nov 12, 2017)

I know this may not be for everyone but I've been running mine for a week. Iam the crane op, climber, and rope guy! 
Seriously the treemek gives me these opportunities. I literally go to work with just one guy now.


----------



## island edge (Nov 12, 2017)




----------

