# Guide Rails for CSM



## vamtjewboy (Nov 16, 2007)

I'd love to see homemade guide rails. How do you guys keep the rails on tight for the first cut? i'd love to see pictures or hear a description of what some of u all have rigged up...preferably something simple and easy to build that makes me slap myself on the forehead and say, "Now why didn't i think of that?!"

I have various sizes of guide rails i made from rectagular stock; it's like channel but with the fourth side. it is very rigid and doesn't bend; it stays very straght. i have two pieces of steel welded between them on each end that i nail into both ends of the logs. no matter how much i nail it in, it still wiggles a little and i don't get completely flat lumber. help! thanks! -nick


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## BlueRider (Nov 16, 2007)

I have two methods I regularly use. the quick and easy way is to slap a 2x12 on top of the log and shoot some screws into the log. I use a counter sink so I don't accedently snap a screw and to also make sure the screw dosen't hang up the mill. I try to put 4 screws 2 near each end and as close to the edges as possible. the board I use has a bit of a twist in it so I sight down the board and throw a wooden wedge under a corner or two and get it flat. I shoot a screw through any wedges to make sure they don't vibrate loose. This method is best on small to medium size logs the log pictured is actually bigger then what I normally like to use this method on, but it worked.

The second method I use and the one used on the maple log is a frame I made that is actually the outfeed table for my table saw(love those removable hinge pins). It is make of 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 3/16" angle and measures 84" x 24". I attach it in two diferent ways. for really long logs I temporarily nail a couple of sticks on each end and run a pair of string lines 22" apart along the top. the string lines need to be parallel in height and parallel to the pith of the log. I then drive some 9" lag bolts into the log along the lines and drive them in so they are level with the string lines. I then place the angle table on the heads of the lags. When I mill to the end of the table I have to stop and take the mill apart so I can move the table to the next pair of bolts and put it all back together and contine. As you can imagine this is where this method is a huge hassle and very time consuming. I have only done this on 2 logs. I use a scrap of tie wire to secure the angle iron table to one or two of the lags, but it still has a bit of wobble in it. Some is likely due to the mill being set so high and some is the lags moving. 

The more comon method I use is one that unfortunately I don't have a pic of. I use the angle iron table and free hand cut a slight flat area, sometimes this is done in the process of trimming a branch or two and trimming a bit of a root butress. I then toss the angle table on a shoot some screws through some of the holes that are drilled for this very reason. I generaly place a wooden wedge under the angle to level it and shoot the screw through it at the same time. this method results in the most stable large flat surface for milling and takes about the same time as the 2x12 method. my prefrence is often dictated by the room I think I will have on the trip home, or if I forget to bring one of them. 

For screws I prefer non hardened 4" wood screws as oposed to deck screws which are very hard on chains. 

The more wood I mill the less fussy I have become about the flatness of the initial cut, funny thing is that they have generaly gotten flater. I don't cary a level or square with me when I mill. it is all done by eye and as quick as possible. trust your intincts and your eyes.


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## BobL (Nov 16, 2007)

Follow the link to my rails in my sig below.

The basic design is fine (in fact they function really well) but after using these about a dozen times or so these specific rails are too flimsy for long term use. The main problem is the rails are only 0.05" thick steel which is too thin and as a result the rails have bent with the weight of the 076 and BILL Mill so I plan to make new ones from 0.1" steel.

Cheers


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## curdy (Nov 16, 2007)

Nick,
I used 2 10' lengths of 'Superstrut' from Home Depot. Thick gauge stuff and very straight. Well priced too. I have angle iron on either end to attach to the ends of the log...then I rigged up some pieces that can slide inside the strut that attach the rails to the angle iron (slide so they can easily be adjusted to the log length). 

I'll take some pictures later for you.


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## tawilson (Nov 16, 2007)

I've got a 24' aluminum ladder section that I bent one foot on that I have rigged with some 90* break to use as a guide, but I haven't used it yet.


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## dustytools (Nov 16, 2007)

Here is a pic of my aluminum ladder mounted to a Cedar log. I also have a set of rails made from aluminum door frames and all-thread. The aluminum set is ten feet long and the ladder is about twenty feet long.View attachment 59956


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## dustytools (Nov 16, 2007)

Here is a pic that I found of my aluminum door frame rails. I have a set of Granberg slabbing rail brackets on them to mount them to the log.View attachment 59958


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## BobL (Nov 17, 2007)

curdy said:


> Nick,
> I used 2 10' lengths of 'Superstrut' from Home Depot. Thick gauge stuff and very straight. Well priced too. I have angle iron on either end to attach to the ends of the log...then I rigged up some pieces that can slide inside the strut that attach the rails to the angle iron (slide so they can easily be adjusted to the log length).
> 
> I'll take some pictures later for you.



Curdy - Mine are on yours and I don't remember thanking you for the seed. So thanks!


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## rxe (Nov 19, 2007)

I have a 12 foot aluminium ladder that I have drilled pairs of holes in every other rung. I nail it to the tree with a variety of nails - choosing the length of the nail so that it only goes about 1" into the wood. I pack under the ladder to make sure it is level. The nails some out pretty easily with a set of vice grips, and can be re-used. I count the nails out of the bag, and make sure I put the same number back at the end. 6" nails and saws don't mix well!


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## ASEMASTER (Nov 19, 2007)

*aluminum ladder*

I simply use a ladder and screw angle iron to one end of the log to keep it flat then screw another to the other end and use a clamp to keep it from moving after the first cut I then use the existing log to guide the mill. woops dont have the pictures of the ladder but did send some with the hose hooked up.


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## Stihl-in-Ky (Nov 20, 2007)

*Ladder*

I made a setup for an extension ladder from 2 pieces of light angle 4 carraige bolts 2 small pieces of wood and 4 short pieces of short unistrut.
Here are a couple of pics.


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## BobL (Nov 20, 2007)

What I've noticed with some guide rails is that they stop or start right at the beginning or end of the logs. My experience is that it is much easier to handle CSM type mills if the guide rails overhang at both the start end of the logs so that the CSM can just sit on the rails - that way the operator doesn't have to carry the weight of the CSMat the start or end of the cut.

Cheers


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## curdy (Nov 21, 2007)

BobL said:


> What I've noticed with some guide rails is that they stop or start right at the beginning or end of the logs. My experience is that it is much easier to handle CSM type mills if the guide rails overhang at both the start end of the logs so that the CSM can just sit on the rails - that way the operator doesn't have to carry the weight of the CSMat the start or end of the cut.
> 
> Cheers



Yes, easier on the back...and a lot more accurate of a cut too! BobL, also wasn't sure what your other message was thanking me for, but I'm happy I was a help in some way!

Sorry I never posted pictures, I gave Anthony the system along with the saw and mill he bought. Maybe he can post some pictures. I have a couple of other ideas of how to make a different system...maybe I'll get to design and build it if I think there's a market for it. The things I have in mind are pretty simple and wouldn't cost that much. We'll see.


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## Woodsurfer (Nov 21, 2007)

A good point for screwing boards into the end faces - you can control the depth of cut at both ends. Say you want to cut right down the pith in a tapered log, not easy to do with guides just resting on the log. 

Someone here once posted a simple method using end boards and a ladder attached with fender washers. Works great for me, although a ladder will sag a bit in the middle of a longer cut. Easy to shim for support...


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## woodshop (Nov 21, 2007)

Woodsurfer said:


> A good point for screwing boards into the end faces - you can control the depth of cut at both ends. Say you want to cut right down the pith in a tapered log, not easy to do with guides just resting on the log.
> 
> Someone here once posted a simple method using end boards and a ladder attached with fender washers. Works great for me, although a ladder will sag a bit in the middle of a longer cut. Easy to shim for support...



I stick standard plastic wedges under my guide bar where it is not supported by the log. I wedge two in, one from either side till they are tight, that does the trick to keep the cut flat and smooth.


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## BobL (Nov 21, 2007)

curdy said:


> Yes, easier on the back...and a lot more accurate of a cut too! BobL, also wasn't sure what your other message was thanking me for, but I'm happy I was a help in some way!



I was referring to this thread which you started in February in which there are some photos of unistrut being used as a guid. I thought you had posted the photos as well but when I just went back and checked it was CaseyForrest that posted the pics. Anyway, thanks for starting that thread.


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