# False Crotch Feaux Pas



## Fireaxman (Jan 12, 2007)

This little mistake, and the comedy of errors that followed it, cost me about 4 hours. Actually more than that, because it occured late in the day. I ran out of daylight messing with it, and had to come back and re-rig the next morning to get my rope down. Maybe I shouldn't show my ignorance like this, but I guess the only way I can cut my losses is if I can save someone else from similar mistakes.

The tree is a 100 foot Loblollie that had a broken, hanging top from Katrina. Then the IPS beetles got into it and killed a significant part of the midsection of the crown. The tree defeated the IPS with a good flow of sap, and there are enough green branches below the dead top to give the tree a pretty good chance, so the game plan was to clean up the top and try to save the tree.

The job went incredibly well for the first couple or 3 hours. I got my TIP up nice and high with the Bigshot on a lucky first shot. I got the broken top out and the dead limbs cleaned up and put this false crotch in on the clean dead spar to work from as I bombed the logs off. Had everything done and was back on the ground for 3:00 P thinking I had time to get the boat loaded for a fishing trip the next day. Nothing left to do but shake the false crotch out and retrieve my rope.

Nuts!

False crotch was too tight to the tree to let the overhand get through the ring (...FP1.jpg). I just could not believe it would not shake loose, so I fought it for a good half hour throwing loops at it thinking it would break lose, but as you might be able to see from the picts the rope was between two close branches. The loops I threw from the ground just hit the branches and never made it to the FC.

When I finally decided I had to re-set my TIP and climb up to get my rope, my throw line hung under the screw link of the FC (...FP3.jpg). I had to break it off and shoot for another limb. 

Doncha know, could not hit worth beans with that Bigshot for the rest of the day between problems with ground clutter (Parsley Haws I did not want to remove), getting hung up with overshots into limbs of neighboring trees, and busting my throwbag up dead centering neighboring limbs. Its enough to make you break out the spurs. Clearance should have a field day with this one. But after I had cleaned the poor sucker up so carefuly I wasn't about to gouge holes in it with my gaffs.

Ran out of daylight fooling with it and had to come back the next day to get my rope. Missed the fishing trip. When I finally got up to retrieve the FC I found another problem. The FC would not have come through the top natural crotch anyway. The natural crotch was too tight, and I had left the unused portion of the tail of the FC on the wrong side of the natural crotch (...FP2.jpg).

Hindsight 20-20. As I worked my way down the spar I should have (1) loosened up the FC and (2) made sure my rope was clear to shake the FC loose before I came down. Of course I could also have moved the FC to or below the natural crotch. 

Oh well. Hope my pain is your gain.


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## beowulf343 (Jan 12, 2007)

Ha, Ha, Ha. Don't you HATE it when that happens. Nothing I dislike more than having to reclimb a tree simply because you cannot pull your climbing line out of it. Oh well, at least it seems like you learned some things from it-that's all that counts!


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## clearance (Jan 12, 2007)

Not going to go there, I have done my share of things that cost me extra time. To be totally honest now, I don't know what a false crotch is, it sounds like something perverted, like some transvestite deal. Anyways Fireaxman, big of you to help others with your story, Cheers/Jim.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 13, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Ha, Ha, Ha. Don't you HATE it when that happens. Nothing I dislike more than having to reclimb a tree simply because you cannot pull your climbing line out of it. Oh well, at least it seems like you learned some things from it-that's all that counts!





(WLL) said:


> the only thing in your bag of trix that has anything to do with a false crotch is a male blowup doll ha ha ha!!!




Whatever it takes to get you through the night!!!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## The Climber (Jan 13, 2007)

*friction saver*

 The mistake I made was forgeting that I had the friction saver in the tree 
and pulled my rope out leaving the F S up top. Theres nothing like breaking
a unnessary sweat to teach ya.


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## pbtree (Jan 14, 2007)

Bummer dude - I hate it when I mess up something like that, and then waste good hours reclimbing a tree- of course the efforts are a good way to burn off the frustration I suppose...:hmm3grin2orange:


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## 1I'dJak (Jan 14, 2007)

had a similar prob...i was stemming (topping out harvest trees on helicopter logged blocks)...I was a newbie and had my false crotch settup...old schoolers told me to get rid of it...i said it would save time not having to cut a notch on the top of the spar to rappell down...hit the ground but i couldn't get the rope (with my retrieval knot tied into it) to get through the big ring of my false crotch... the stem was too fat... the false crotch was spread @ too wide of an angle...and i had the big one @ 72".... so up i had to climb in front of the foreman to get my 'gizmo'...they were yelllow cedar trees which suck to spur up, cuz the bark is very hard and peely so your lanyard gets stuck and you have to walk around the fat ass stem to get it out...


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 14, 2007)

Been there, done that. 
Now I don't try to remove the false crotch without a throwline.


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## moray (Jan 14, 2007)

*A Safer Way*

This always seems to be a problem when the FC goes around the trunk instead of over a limb. In FCs I have made myself, the large ring is just barely big enough to pass a very tight overhand knot tied in 1/2 in rope. When anything interferes, like a ring pressed against the trunk, it can be almost impossible to make it go.

A big knot as a retrieval device just doesn't cut it a lot of the time. I finally settled on the rig shown in the jpeg. I explained the loop in the end of my climbing rope in an earlier post. The retrieval ring is just a little ring from the hardware store. Everything is shown loose in the photo, but obviously you have to snug down the sheet bend before sending the retrieval ring up in the tree.

The beauty of the ring is it can turn sideways and slip between the trunk and the FC ring that is pressed against the trunk. I have never had a false crotch get hung up since I started using this method.

The end of the rope with the loop whipped in place is quite stiff, but it doesn't interfere in any way with my use of the rope. That end of the rope is mostly sitting on the ground anyway, as the other end is the business end with a spliced eye.


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## moray (Jan 14, 2007)

Nice pics and good story, Fireaxman! Must be a lot of people on the site kicking themselves and saying "been there, done that." Good chance you will save some poor sucker from the same fate.


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## Grace Tree (Jan 14, 2007)

Here's a retriever that's never let me down yet. I picked a dozen or so up at an auction. I use them for keepers for trailer hitches so I always have a few in the back of the truck. Just put it mid-line on the throw line with a few half hitches so I can use both legs of the throw line to work it back and forth and snag and pull. Beats climbing back up. Pen in picture if for perspective.
Phil
RETRIEVER


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 14, 2007)

Small Wood said:


> Here's a retriever that's never let me down yet. I picked a dozen or so up at an auction. I use them for keepers for trailer hitches so I always have a few in the back of the truck. Just put it mid-line on the throw line with a few half hitches so I can use both legs of the throw line to work it back and forth and snag and pull. Beats climbing back up. Pen in picture if for perspective.
> Phil
> RETRIEVER



Clever. I've also seen a slip knot tied in the throw line used. Get the loop around the target and cinch it up.


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## moray (Jan 14, 2007)

Small Wood said:


> Here's a retriever that's never let me down yet. I picked a dozen or so up at an auction. I use them for keepers for trailer hitches so I always have a few in the back of the truck. Just put it mid-line on the throw line with a few half hitches so I can use both legs of the throw line to work it back and forth and snag and pull. Beats climbing back up. Pen in picture if for perspective.
> Phil
> RETRIEVER



Even simpler, if you want to use a throwline with a retriever mid line, just girth hitch a small hardware-store ring to the middle of the line. Plenty of room to keep a few of those in the back of your truck.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 14, 2007)

moray said:


> Even simpler, if you want to use a throwline with a retriever mid line, just girth hitch a small hardware-store ring to the middle of the line. Plenty of room to keep a few of those in the back of your truck.



I think he was refering to a retrieving device used to grab a stuck cambium saver, by setting a throwline above the stuck CS, pulling a hook to it, and then snagging it and lifting it out of the crotch.
This works for stuck CSs or when you forget you used a CS and pull your rope out leaving the CS in the crotch. It saves climbing up after it.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 15, 2007)

Mike Maas said:


> I think he was refering to a retrieving device used to grab a stuck cambium saver, by setting a throwline above the stuck CS, pulling a hook to it, and then snagging it and lifting it out of the crotch.
> This works for stuck CSs or when you forget you used a CS and pull your rope out leaving the CS in the crotch. It saves climbing up after it.


Thanks for clarifying that, Mike. I've never used a cambium saver as I don't climb DdRT. However, even a spliced eye can get caught in a super tight V, like in ash trees. The FC hook-o-tron is a pretty good trick for lifting a rope up and out of the top of a tree from the ground.

Thank you for that one, Small wood, and you for sharing, FireAxe.


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## Climb020 (Jan 16, 2007)

The throwline trick is great for getting both stuck FC and throwballs out. I just clip a biner to the ring in my throwbag and then around my climbing line and then it just lifts right out. Another tip would be don't come out of a tree and then take lunch cause after lunch there have been a few times where I forgot it was up there and I just pulled my rope on out and as I looked up to see if my rope was gonna hit me coming out I would see the FC :bang:.


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## Fireaxman (Jan 16, 2007)

moray said:


> ...The beauty of the ring is it can turn sideways and slip between the trunk and the FC ring that is pressed against the trunk. I have never had a false crotch get hung up since I started using this method.
> 
> The end of the rope with the loop whipped in place is quite stiff, but it doesn't interfere in any way with my use of the rope. That end of the rope is mostly sitting on the ground anyway, as the other end is the business end with a spliced eye.



Pretty Cute! Good idea. 

I also like Mike's suggestion, if I understand it right. Send a throwline up secured to the overhand? To pull it back down if necessary? I guess I could also secure a throwline to the big ring on the FC before I start down, since I usually carry one up the tree with me.


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## The Climber (Jan 16, 2007)

*FS retrival*


That Looks Like A Good way. Can't wait to try it.[FONT="Comic Sans MS


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## gumneck (Jan 17, 2007)

Good informative thread. In looking at Fireaxman's first pic, I was wondering if positioning of the FC could have made a difference. I try to put my fc so that the rings are hanging opposite of a suitable branch.

So in your first pic, your rope would have been hanging down to the left of trunk in picture. Not criticism just thoughts.


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## Fireaxman (Jan 18, 2007)

gumneck said:


> ... In looking at Fireaxman's first pic, I was wondering if positioning of the FC could have made a difference. I try to put my fc so that the rings are hanging opposite of a suitable branch.



Yessir, positioning of the FC was one of the mistakes. I deliberately made my original ascent between those to branches to be on the opposite side of the tree from the Katrina damaged top, a hanger, and to have the additional protection of those two branches if the top came out while I was climbing. When I got ready to come out of the tree I should have repositioned the FC and the rope to make it easier to clear the FC from the ground.


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## GlenWimpy (Aug 22, 2009)

Fireaxman said:


> This little mistake, and the comedy of errors that followed it, cost me about 4 hours. Actually more than that, because it occured late in the day. I ran out of daylight messing with it, and had to come back and re-rig the next morning to get my rope down. Maybe I shouldn't show my ignorance like this, but I guess the only way I can cut my losses is if I can save someone else from similar mistakes.
> 
> The tree is a 100 foot Loblollie that had a broken, hanging top from Katrina. Then the IPS beetles got into it and killed a significant part of the midsection of the crown. The tree defeated the IPS with a good flow of sap, and there are enough green branches below the dead top to give the tree a pretty good chance, so the game plan was to clean up the top and try to save the tree.
> 
> ...



Fancy knots , buckles , hardware will get you in TROUBLE TROUBLE TROUBLE!

Keep it simple!


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## GlenWimpy (Aug 22, 2009)

GlenWimpy said:


> Fancy knots , buckles , hardware will get you in TROUBLE TROUBLE TROUBLE!
> 
> Keep it simple!



I see these guys , SHOWOFFS , climbing with 20 lbs of stuff they NEVER use! :wave:


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 22, 2009)

GlenWimpy said:


> I see these guys , SHOWOFFS , climbing with 20 lbs of stuff they NEVER use! :wave:




Better to have it and hardly use it than to forget it and need it!


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## GlenWimpy (Aug 23, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Better to have it and hardly use it than to forget it and need it!



Better to only take what you need , climb light , I get up in the tree , then have my saw sent up! I'm 48 , I used to expend alot of energy climbing when I was young , now I'm old , still faster then most , but I also conserve energy! If I need something , I ask and have the ground man send it up!


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## Grace Tree (Aug 23, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlkOx3v-uCo


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## Grace Tree (Aug 23, 2009)

I always climb "old school", how 'bout you, Dan


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 23, 2009)

GlenWimpy said:


> Better to only take what you need , climb light , I get up in the tree , then have my saw sent up! I'm 48 , I used to expend alot of energy climbing when I was young , now I'm old , still faster then most , but I also conserve energy! If I need something , I ask and have the ground man send it up!





I am 46.............so I am right there too!!!


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## GlenWimpy (Aug 23, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> I am 46.............so I am right there too!!!



In bed by 8 pm up at 5 am
BC powder first thing in morning
2 Advil at night
eat light , lots of water

Just bought a BUCKET TRUCK!


If I climb 3 days straight , I need 2 days off. When I was 35 , I climbed 3 weeks , 7 days a week straight , but not at 48!


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