# chip truck and chipper VS a clam truck



## MillerTreeMN (Nov 18, 2009)

ive been running my business with an F350, 14' long by 8' wide dump trailer and a Rayco 1635 / 35 HP stump grinder

when i need more equipment... i know people. if me or one of the climbers cant climb it i call in a bucket. if its heavy, i call in a skid steer. if there is alot of brush i call in a chipper and chip truck. 


but i need to make the next step. i need to make my jobs go faster without hiring in someone else. ad loading brush and logs by hand in a dump trailer is getting hard on the back and shoulders. 



ive been weighing the options... i could trade my 2006 F350 crew cab diesel 4X4 towards a clam truck, 

trade my car towards a 1/2 ton pickup for the small jobs or just pulling the stump grinder. 

with the clam truck, i can load big logs, brush, etc all in one shot. i can load dirty brush that i wouldnt want to run through a chipper. i can use it to set boulder walls for my friends who do landscaping and sub out to other tree companies to pick up their loads of wood and brush. 

with the chip truck and chipper, youre loading logs into the back by hand, forcing the brush into the chipper, heck i would have $20 K minimum invested into a chipper alone to get the one i want... chipper knives go dull... youve got the truck and chipper motor to maintain... 





help me out here... 

clam ( grapple ) truck

or a 

chipper and chip truck.


----------



## DK_stihl (Nov 18, 2009)

*Clam truck*

There's alot to look at here. If you're goin to run a clam truck you need to be able to get rid of the brush. Chips are much easier to get rid of than brush. Also, most clam trucks require a class "B" CDL to drive. They also need more side to side room and overhead room to operate than a chipper does. Are they a backsaver? Oh yes, they are, but they are also bigger and heavier, and you can get a chipper into places you can't get a clam truck. Both set-ups have their place, and I've run both, so I can speak from experience. I'll put up some pics later.


----------



## MillerTreeMN (Nov 18, 2009)

getting rid of the brush... the dump i go to time takes brush. 8 bucks a yard for brush, or 6 bucks a yard for chips..... so im not really saving money when we chip it up. 

ive had a class A CDL since i turned 18 so that part is covered. 

95% of my jobs you have to drag the brush and wood to the vehicle anyways.... the other 5 % of the jobs always seem like if you can get a pickup / chipper in there, you could get a clam truck in there.


----------



## DK_stihl (Nov 18, 2009)

*Trucks*

Sounds like you've got it figured out. Here's a couple pics of trucks I used to run.


----------



## Wishie22 (Nov 18, 2009)

The main deciding factor would be, what would best suite the way you want your business to grow (exploiting what is currently working).

Good luck with growing your business.


----------



## DK_stihl (Nov 18, 2009)

*obstacles*

One thing that is often overlooked is overhead room, you need a lot of overhead room to get your boom up. Just think about how many tree branches / wires are over top of you next time you're on the job. Sometimes the only place you can load is the middle of the street. Even then stuff will still get in the way. Also, you need to make sure whatever you drop your outriggers on can support the weight of the truck and not do any damage. Otherwise you'll be buying alot of new driveways, and restringing a lot of overhead wire.


----------



## MillerTreeMN (Nov 18, 2009)

DK Stihl -

nice clam truck. what would one of those cost ( ball park ) 


Wishie- when you say "exploiting" what do you mean ??


----------



## DK_stihl (Nov 18, 2009)

*Cost*

It depends on what you want. 

New-100-140K depending on options. Used 70-10K depending on condition and options. Here is a link to a few. Have a look.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/find/browse/grapple-truck


----------



## Koa Man (Nov 18, 2009)

I thought of getting a clam truck at one time, but decided on getting a hooklift truck instead. If you get a bin with 5 ft. sides, you can easily load it with a mini loader. I have a Gehl AL20 with the BMG grapple. It doesn't tear up lawns like my Prowler mini skid does, but it is 40 inches wide. The travel speed, 6.8 mph, is also twice as fast as a mini skid. A hooklift in really good condition can be found for as low as $40K. You will never find a clam truck that cheap unless it is all beat up. 

Of course the Gehl cannot pick up as much as the clam, but it is much smaller, can get into far more places and on a lot of jobs, bring the debris all the way from the backyard to the bin. It will easily move more brush and logs than 4 groundmen and won't call in sick or require wc insurance.


----------



## Toddppm (Nov 19, 2009)

Koa, are you still renting out your collection of equipment?


----------



## fishercat (Nov 19, 2009)

*a couple guys i know have gotten clam trucks here.*

they have gotten rid of them.said it was more aggravation than they figured.getting rid of the brush was not as easy as they planned.

i'd get a good chipper and about a 30-40 hp 4x4 tractor with a grapple and skidding winch.


----------



## a_lopa (Nov 19, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> I thought of getting a clam truck at one time, but decided on getting a hooklift truck instead. If you get a bin with 5 ft. sides, you can easily load it with a mini loader. I have a Gehl AL20 with the BMG grapple. It doesn't tear up lawns like my Prowler mini skid does, but it is 40 inches wide. The travel speed, 6.8 mph, is also twice as fast as a mini skid. A hooklift in really good condition can be found for as low as $40K. You will never find a clam truck that cheap unless it is all beat up.
> 
> Of course the Gehl cannot pick up as much as the clam, but it is much smaller, can get into far more places and on a lot of jobs, bring the debris all the way from the backyard to the bin. It will easily move more brush and logs than 4 groundmen and won't call in sick or require wc insurance.




A guy i know has hook bins and 20"+ chippers fills the bins with logs/chip,I think it's area pesific to which way you go.A clam truck would be nice i must admit load and dump.


----------



## Koa Man (Nov 19, 2009)

Toddppm said:


> Koa, are you still renting out your collection of equipment?



Depends on who wants to rent it. I rent the dump trailer and equipment trailer to almost anyone. The 15GT to only 2 tree services I trust. The Prowler or Gehl I also rent out to some tree services but I am not as selective as I am with the 15GT. I won't rent the 23GT to any tree service unless I am the operator. The 23GT is currently being rented to one of Waikiki hotels, where I do the palm trimming. They are renting it for 4 days to hang Christmas lighting. I gave them a training session, which they paid for and watched their guy operate it for 3 hours before I left. I also got paid during that 3 hours wrapping lights on a couple of palms the lift could not get to while the 23GT was being operated about 50 ft. away.

Getting back to the chip truck subject, another reason I don't think I will buy a chipper again is because I spend 22 weeks a year working at four Waikiki higher end hotels. Management there tells me they get a lot of guest complaints with the previous contractor would run his chipper. They like that I don't run a chipper. Several homeowners have also told me we are the quietest tree service they know of. One lady came out of the house a few times to see if we were still there. I use a handsaw a lot on fine pruning jobs. Most of the guys around here don't even carry a handsaw.


----------



## lego1970 (Nov 19, 2009)

If what your doing is working, I don't know if I would trade in a good running F-350 and chipper for a grapple truck unless your getting a newer very reliable grapple truck without going into the hole. I mentioned a lot of this in another post but here goes again is case you didn't read it. I do know a guy that's been in business for awhile and thats all he uses is a grapple truck. I personaly am a big fan of them and if it was me, I'd rather have a grapple truck, then just a chipper truck with a chipper behind it. Assuming that the grapple truck has a dump bed (which all but one I've ever operated had a dump bed on it) you can always modify the tailgate, and tongue of a chipper and pull a chipper behind it in the future, but it wouldn't be as near as manuverble compared to just a chipper truck with a chipper on back. I'll list a few of the pros and cons that I've noticed from operating them, but whatever you do if you buy a grapple truck, make sure it has some balls for heavy lifting. Nothing more frustrating then a weak grapple truck that can't pick up root balls, heavy logs, or small equipment that you want to load with you. It just defeats the purpose of having and paying for such a big piece of equipment. 

Cons, 
Use quite a bit of fuel both in driving and while operating the boom.
There is a lot of maintenance issues that for some reason seem to plague the ones I've driven. More so then other heavy equipment. Don't know why. 
As mentioned you can't always get your outriggers and or boom in the places you want and sometimes you can't even get the truck in the area your working especially if there are low hanging braches, lines or structures in your way.
Brush is generally more expensive to get rid of then chips.

Pros,
Saves a lot of time from not having to wrestle and make more cuts to get brush thru the chipper. Really nice on vines or thorny trees such as Honey Locust or Osage Orange that take a lot of time and blood to get thru the chipper. 
You can save and load big logs (assuming you can get to them or drag them to you) for resale.
After a ice storms, tornados, hurricanes, etc there is a lot of work that can be done with a grapple truck not just tree work stuff.
There is other work that while less glamorous and not big money will help pay for it when tree work is slow, such as hauling scrap metal or demolition clean up. 
With straps you can load and haul a lot of other gear in the back of the grapple truck, such as a small stump grinder. Then when your finished with the job, if you don't have room to load up your other equipment, just come back with your small p/u truck to get it. 

That's just my observation but as I said if what your doing is working, I don't know if I would gamble that. Then again if you want to grow sooner or later I guess your gonna have to gamble. Good luck on whatever you do.


----------



## treesquirrel (Nov 19, 2009)

Get a clam truck with a dumping bed. Then you can use it for chips too when you need chipping more than the grapple.


----------



## Treetom (Nov 19, 2009)

*ain't broke, don't fix*

If what you have is working and you're making a decent living, stick with the system you have. If you organize your work effectively, call in a chipper when necessary or a loader and dump truck, and still make money, why change? Keep doing what you're doing and add a few pieces of equipment as you're able. Convert your dump trailer to a chipper dump. You should be able to find a decent chipper for around 6K. Buy a pickup to pull the chipper. Couldn't you fit a Dingo or similar on the dump trailer? Just some ideas. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Nov 19, 2009)

Also think about how far your work is from the dump site. Loading brush may be faster but if it's a long drive you can make alot fewer trips with chips. Good luck.... Mike


----------



## Industry (Nov 19, 2009)

MillerTreeMN said:


> getting rid of the brush... the dump i go to time takes brush.* 8 bucks a yard for brush, or 6 bucks a yard for chips.....* so im not really saving money when we chip it up.



This is misleading. A cubic yard of brush is not even close to the same amount of debris as a cubic yard of chips. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Wishie22 (Nov 19, 2009)

MillerTreeMN said:


> Wishie- when you say "exploiting" what do you mean ??



Making the best use of your current business, equipment. Lots of options out there, you just want to choose equipment that will help your current business and add growth potential to expand. An idle machine is a costly machine. 

As some have suggested a clam truck with dumping capabilities would be seem to be the best fit for what you have described. Have you considered a dump trailer with a grapple setup? Seen a couple of set ups guys use here for picking up rounds for transport (http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=41733&highlight=grapple+trailer). Maybe less initial cost and insurance to keep on the road.

Chips consolidate debris and help keep production going. Chips are easier to dispose of as well. We have people even request them.


Good luck with your business.


----------



## jhays (Nov 19, 2009)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ages?q=timber+grapple+trailer&hl=en&sa=N&um=1

How about a log trailer, that dumps with sides. You can keep your current truck, to tow the trailer. if need be buy a smaller truck to pull the chipper. Hudson makes some nice ones.


----------



## DK_stihl (Nov 19, 2009)

*Debris*



Industry said:


> This is misleading. A cubic yard of brush is not even close to the same amount of debris as a cubic yard of chips. Good luck with your decision.



This is a very good point. The tree service where I ran grapple trucks also had a tub grinder and sold mulch, so they made money on both ends. If you have to pay to dump brush it will cost a lot more, as it is less dense. Also, it should be netioned that a chipper makes for a cleaner jobsite on takedowns.


----------



## BlackenedTimber (Nov 20, 2009)

I have had alot of people pay for chips. I have never had anyone pay for brush.

good luck with your decision.


----------



## MillerTreeMN (Nov 29, 2009)

thanks for all the tips so far. 


i am losing a little bit of sleep over this, trying to figure out what will be the most cost efficient, beneficial, etc etc...................

basically being a one man band, bringing in the help when i need it. i do about 60-70K per year of work with this....













the skid steer you can see on the right of the top picture is NOT mine. 

i have since added some sides to my dump trailer. it is an 8' wide x 14' long, 14,000 GVW. 



heres what i might consider now....... 

this F350 has been a very good truck, and the stump grinder is payed off in April. 

i am considering getting a new, longer dump trailer. like a 8 foot wide, 16' or 20' and selling this one. 

i would then purchase a Dingo, Toro, or Boxer "mini loader" 




so now, i would have a LONGER dump trailer with slightly more cubic yards capacity, which i THEN could fit my stump grinder AND a mini loader in there. 

the mini loader would be a life saver when doing stump cleanup and loading logs. if it lifts high enough, and had forks or a grapple i could use it for loading brush. 


so i will still be loading some brush by hand, and having to go through the trouble of "bucking it down" with the chainsaw to save room, 



but i would be saving time on the jobs ( when we can get the mini loader in there ) and doing alot less wheel barreling. my back is killing me right now from that the last couple days! 

so again, new trailer with more cubic yard capacity, mini- loader ( the payed off stump grinder payment will just move onto the mini loader payment ) 

and down the line another pickup and a chipper to chip into the back of the pickup or dump trailer.


----------



## capetrees (Nov 29, 2009)

Used chipper, 12" minimum, and a used one ton with a chip body. Add to the collection a mini skid steer w/ grapple and you're on your way. Costs? Guestimate of 12K for the one ton, 12K for the chipper and 8K for the mini, total 30-32K. You could even trade the truck in the picture toward a new or used one ton and then buy a used pickup to get around. The choice is of course yours to make. 

As mentioned, there is a lot more brush in a yard of chips than in a yard of brush.(?)  sounds crazy but I mean the chips are more condensed. Chip a full load of brush and your truck will be half full with chips. get the picture? 

From what i've seen around me, chippers are in more than the brush trucks. There is only so much the dumps can take as far as brush. Last hurricane forced all municipal dumps to refuse brush. It all now has to go to private yards. Chips can be re-sold by you or sold off to someone else like landscape yard. Don't pay to dump your chips. Thats crazy!

Good luck


----------



## MillerTreeMN (Nov 29, 2009)

capetrees-

for what its worth, i take my big saw and buck down the brush that is in the trailer. 

ive fit 50-60 foot pine trees or 45-50 foot tall maple trees in that one trailer.... 24-32 bucks to dump....




i do think that a larger trailer and mini loader might be the most effective right now, and a few months later a 1/2 ton pickup and a small chipper, to chip into the dump trailer.... of course then i need a 2nd driver


----------



## briggstwiggs (Dec 9, 2009)

MillerTreeMN said:


> capetrees-
> 
> for what its worth, i take my big saw and buck down the brush that is in the trailer.
> 
> ...



miller I am 22 years old and cant afford much equipment my father was in logging business up north for 20 years learned the ropes from him. I have been running my tree business for 3 years on my own with no help from banks or anything cause of my age well the bank helped me with one thing a 2008 ford f450 with 16ft bed on it I then puchased a grapple loader a small one but it will lift 2600 lbs. then I bought a stump grinder then waited on the chipper you need to save your back first. price on truck with 3000 miles on it $25,000 loader $6,000 so you could get a brand new grapple truck for around 36,000 mounted and hydraulic power pack. remeber you can always chip into the grapple truck when you get the chipper. If you want I will figure out how to post pics and show you mine I love it. I trailer loaded it seemed like for ever. you cant get alot of brush in the truck but you can pull a trailer to and load it. I have put 6 tons of brush in the back of it if you cut the brush right long and slinder. the dump is cheap were your at it is 27 dollars a ton for brush and wood chips are the same amount here.


----------



## treemandan (Dec 9, 2009)

Dragging brush to the chipper is part of the fun, please don't kill it for me.

Nah, clammy sounds nice but you will need one heck of hole to dump it. I think in some areas brush piles cause fires. I really haven't seen to much of that, most of what goes on those truck are logs though the grapple can do other things. I would say it really would depend on how much brush you have and how much rocks you move and to be able to find proper dumpsites. How much tree can you get in one of those trucks?


----------



## treemandan (Dec 9, 2009)

capetrees said:


> Used chipper, 12" minimum, and a used one ton with a chip body. Add to the collection a mini skid steer w/ grapple and you're on your way. Costs? Guestimate of 12K for the one ton, 12K for the chipper and 8K for the mini, total 30-32K. You could even trade the truck in the picture toward a new or used one ton and then buy a used pickup to get around. The choice is of course yours to make.
> 
> As mentioned, there is a lot more brush in a yard of chips than in a yard of brush.(?)  sounds crazy but I mean the chips are more condensed. Chip a full load of brush and your truck will be half full with chips. get the picture?
> 
> ...



Yeah they had to refuse brush cause their chipper was down.


----------



## pdqdl (Dec 9, 2009)

I would go chipper before I went with a grapple. 

The real decision is based more on your business model. Do you trim more than remove? Go chipper. If most of your revenue is based on removals, and you have a list of jobs held up because you are not getting done with the work? Go grapple.

I suspect that something different is at work here. You see all the other tree companies with all the big fancy toys, and you are on a job humping huge logs into a trailer for not much money per day. The bigger equipment seems like an ideal thing to have.

Figure out what will increase your business income _and job satisfaction_ the most. Then ignore everybody else's opinion.

I suspect that a heavy duty grapple trailer and a chipper truck (with an aerial device) would be the best combination for a small company. Then you can pick what you want to use that day, hook it up, and go. Not much can beat a bucket truck for getting those dead trees down safely. Except a crane...crap! The list wish never quits, does it?

Insurance and expenses on a grapple truck are pretty big; you need to do a lot of tree removals to pay for that. In these really hard economy times, I would only go with what I could pay cash for.


----------



## MillerTreeMN (Dec 9, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I would go chipper before I went with a grapple.
> 
> The real decision is based more on your business model. Do you trim more than remove? Go chipper. If most of your revenue is based on removals, and you have a list of jobs held up because you are not getting done with the work? Go grapple.
> 
> ...



i really dont care what other companies have-

what i do care about is getting the mess cleaned up and hauling the mess out in as few of trips as possible. 

the insurance on the clam truck according to my insurace agent was only going to be about $230 a month, i can handle that. 

for now though i bought my JD tractor to get the brush / logs out of the yard, and to load it into the dump trailer. its already proven its worth so far. 

i *might* consider another pickup and a small chipper in 2010. just need another driver. 

then ill have almost everything-
F350 with tools / gear,
Dump trailer with stump grinder, and John Deere loader,
other pickup towing chipper that we can chip into the dump trailer and load logs on top of the chips. 


we will have everything we would need minus a bucket, i can call one in, or climb. 

so for now, im holding off on the clam truck.


----------



## pdqdl (Dec 10, 2009)

$230 per month is a pretty big hit unless that truck is doing a lot of work, especially when it would come on top of truck payments, maintenance, and fuel bills.


----------



## MillerTreeMN (Dec 10, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> $230 per month is a pretty big hit unless that truck is doing a lot of work, especially when it would come on top of truck payments, maintenance, and fuel bills.



still doesnt scare me. getting more done in less time, subbing out to other companies to pick up their brush piles,

id be trading my F350 towards it so im just going slightly up in payment / insurance. 



but like i said on the last page, i just bought the John Deere tractor so any ideas of a clam truck are on hold.


----------

