# The Dan rates the Cougar



## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

and its not all bad... better than some. I bought this 6-28-08. I like the belt bucket for the waist strap, its a good saddle, up tp date with many of its likeness. I has some pros and cons. 









The constuction of the saddle is tough and well planned. The red hoop in the back is good for tie in for Aussie Rappel. It can be used with suspenders if you have the mind. Lots of places to hang stuff.


The leg straps have nice buckles and a flap to cover them which is nice


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## tree MDS (Dec 23, 2008)

you like those leg straps?? seems to me without a seat of some sort it would be pretty uncomfortable no?


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

Overall a great mid priced saddle, the main part of the harness ain't bad but this freaking rope bridge is not up to par.







The red pointer show the area where the inner cordage has bee compromised. It needs to be fixed... now.








To hell with that lightweight crap. I will rig it up with tree climbing rope and some fish knots. I did notice before I bought this saddle these rings would accept this setup AND you can see the steel ring is smooth where the webbing rides unlike some other saddles. The actually crease on these rings is on the outside diameter. 

The cougar saddle is well padded and can be adjusted like others. Its compareable to the butterfly and the like. Besides the bridge the only other real bad about it thing is the faggy name. Yeah its gay and I knew I would be tossing that bridge pretty quick. Give me a C Gimme an I ! RRRRRG! Go Cougar. See? Gay. 




If I can't fix it before my next climb I can rely on this tank to take me where I need to go. Just watch your nuts real good on this one HELL, watch your nuts on any!


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> you like those leg straps?? seems to me without a seat of some sort it would be pretty uncomfortable no?



Uhm? Heh, It don't say nothing about sitting in the treework book so I didn't think I would need a seat. There is a seat in my truck which i use on the way home when I am done 

" Rabid Monkey" well, that is what I have been called.

By the way, its always a funny turn of events you know and you were right the first time. A pic of The Dan's pruning saw


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## tree MDS (Dec 23, 2008)

Right about what? the "cougar"?? Yeah I probably busted on that before huh??


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## Ed Roland (Dec 23, 2008)

Ben 08? ben harper?


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Right about what? the "cougar"?? Yeah I probably busted on that before huh??



No you need to look around a little more in that pic of the saw.


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## tree MDS (Dec 23, 2008)

treemandan said:


> No you need to look around a little more in that pic of the saw.



Oh yeah, duh! I already knew that though dan.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Oh yeah, duh! I already knew that though dan.



I just wanted to be sure. I like you bro, The Dan does to. That is good for you! 

It really is The Dan though, you might not understand but I think you do.


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## tree MDS (Dec 23, 2008)

Ok, I had a good one but I'll let this one go, lol.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Ok, I had a good one but I'll let this one go, lol.



Aww, that's to bad. Sometimes I think you just laugh cause you don't know what else to do.


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## 1savagehunter (Dec 23, 2008)

*Quick question*

is that old saddle a Weaver? How did you like that old one?


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## lh3 (Dec 23, 2008)

"i can RELY on this tank to take me where i need to go." 
I happen to like my "tank" and its reliable!


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## Adkpk (Dec 23, 2008)

Can't figure out how to shrink those pics heh, Dan?


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 23, 2008)

So...the cougar gets 5 meows outta 10?


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

woodweasel said:


> Ben 08? ben harper?



Now that is a geetar player. Nice voice too. The songs are put together, lots of soul.


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## tree MDS (Dec 23, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Aww, that's to bad. Sometimes I think you just laugh cause you don't know what else to do.



My biggest fear is laughing at a funeral dan! lol.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> Can't figure out how to shrink those pics heh, Dan?



To be honest I have not yet tried and I apologize my friend. I just do what Nails told me to do with photobucket. 
Do you have a problem seeing his material? I do have to start organizing the 65 pages of photos I took in the last 6 months. I am learning still and I am sorry if you do not get to see the pics. Hope to have some time to look into it, I do procrastinate. I have been meaning to read this book I just bought called " How to get up and get dressed" but I gas the saws the day before.

The old weaver IS a tank. It can go a few years, no problem. I tried to cut the bridge on that with an axe - no dice. Its tough but it feels like a big leather diaper compare to the newer designs. 
I have ahd my eye on the cougar's bridge since I bought it but never once was concerned about the older style. 

That is why I like the cougar I wish it had another name though. Its has both the weaver tough and simplicity but co-mingled with newer designs. It has the same bridge you will find on any saddle.

I give it higher than 5 meows ( whatever that means blakes). Now I called the store where I bought it and told them who I was... I didn't get very far. They can get me a new bridge but I have to pay. They said they will have to call me back with the price. I have used this saddle since 6-28-08. You saw the damaged bridge? I used biners to hook up, you can see and sometime I get a few on there and they pinch and twist. I did not shock this saddle, no reason to.
But I knew you can swap the brdges or just do what Nails did in his post " Is this safe to climb on". I have to say one reason I like this cougar is the nice, big, pivot rings as opposed to the screw shackles found on the butterfly. But these two saddles are simular. I think what you could say about one you could pretty much say about the other in terms of wear, comfort and dependablity.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> So...the cougar gets 5 meows outta 10?



Oh, I get it. Nice. I am tired.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> My biggest fear is laughing at a funeral dan! lol.



You know people who do that sort of thing don't do it cause they think its funny. Mostly it IS out of fear.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 23, 2008)

Nice work Dan, good to see you out doing your product evaluations. I put the shackles back on the B-fly and am running 2 bridges on it now, the stock one and a rope one. The rope one just goes through the shackles and has a fat stopper knot on it that can't pull through. This way I can clip in to separate bridges on a double crotch or any other fancy smancy move. During regular climbing I clip around both bridges as a fail safe. 

The Cougar looks like a good compromise between old school tree and new rock type gear. I think they should name their next saddle the Milf, ya know, for marketing purposes.opcorn:


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## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2008)

*hay Dan*

i like the b2's stationary d-rings, does your big cat belt have that same luxury?


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## Ed Roland (Dec 23, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Now that is a geetar player. Nice voice too. The songs are put together, lots of soul.



This one may especially appeal. I believe i read somewhere that you have some experience with herbs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryLqfNwSSFE&feature=related


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Nice work Dan, good to see you out doing your product evaluations. I put the shackles back on the B-fly and am running 2 bridges on it now, the stock one and a rope one. The rope one just goes through the shackles and has a fat stopper knot on it that can't pull through. This way I can clip in to separate bridges on a double crotch or any other fancy smancy move. During regular climbing I clip around both bridges as a fail safe.
> 
> The Cougar looks like a good compromise between old school tree and new rock type gear. I think they should name their next saddle the Milf, ya know, for marketing purposes.opcorn:



That is a real slick idea there. It is easy to hit the two big floating dees on the 2 inch wide bridge on the red weaver. A little more tricky with these newer ones. I find my bridge sees a lot of traffic and congestion can get overwhelming. I usually have a bineer to clip the rig line when moving around plus I use multiple tips for comfort and ease. 
I wasn't surprised the little rope bridge had such a short life and I am kinda glad its over. Yeah, WLL, I looked at the size and set up of the steel pivot rings, I wanted to be sure I could improvise. Dam! Great idea Nails. Two ropes of different color... add another lane on the bridge for rush hour.

I might have room to get two web bridges on there. wouldn't that be the cats meow? I should just cut the bridge off now, see what it looks like.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 23, 2008)

Thats right Dan, rush hour. The idea came to me when I though about my old Buckingham butt strap saddle and how I used to have to clip to both D's, as if to say, Clip (here's your life), Clip (here's a little insurance policy). You know, it was as if the Buck was transcending all elements of space and time and communicating to me, like a ghost from the past, telling me what it already knows. Now that I am not relying on one bridge anymore, the Buck can finally rest in peace. I am sure I'm not the first guy to do it, but it was the experience I was after. 

As for the Sugoi, I will get a pic and rundown as soon as possible, we have a date tommorow.


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## B-Edwards (Dec 24, 2008)

Dan I saw orange saddles and cant tell for sure so I will ask, how does this saddle compare to a buckingham master? I have never had a saddle with a seat either and want to ask the rest of you that do what you think? I am also looking for a saddle to do some prunning in I dont mind spending the money because what climbing I do from here on I want to be as comfortable as I can. I have looked at the saddle that German fellow helped develope. Any thoughts?


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 24, 2008)

Edwards, for prunning I would get a saddle with legstraps. This gives your legs freedom of movement. When I switched from the old buttstrap saddle (after 15 years) I couldn't believe the difference. It is also more comfortable to hang in IMO. Nice padded/wide legstraps are the ticket here. I went with the B-fly because it was lightweight, had a wideback, modular, fixed (stiff) side D's, quick snaps on all the straps, and had a small comfortable belt.

If you do a lot of hanging around the solid seat is the ultimate, my B-fly saddle can have a seat added (modular is the term). If you add the seat it is called the Dragonfly.

I have no time for the buttstrap style anymore as they pinch your hips and inhibit leg movement the second you put weight on them. Big heavy leather, buckles, and grommets just aren't very comfortable.


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## tree MDS (Dec 24, 2008)

I think I'm gonna try the dragonfly 2, seems like a good saddle.

Maybe even the hitchclimber thingy there like oldirty reccomended.

I'm sick of feeling obsolete on this site whenever this stuff comes up, lol.


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## B-Edwards (Dec 24, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Edwards, for prunning I would get a saddle with legstraps. This gives your legs freedom of movement. When I switched from the old buttstrap saddle (after 15 years) I couldn't believe the difference. It is also more comfortable to hang in IMO. Nice padded/wide legstraps are the ticket here. I went with the B-fly because it was lightweight, had a wideback, modular, fixed (stiff) side D's, quick snaps on all the straps, and had a small comfortable belt.
> 
> If you do a lot of hanging around the solid seat is the ultimate, my B-fly saddle can have a seat added (modular is the term). If you add the seat it is called the Dragonfly.
> 
> I have no time for the buttstrap style anymore as they pinch your hips and inhibit leg movement the second you put weight on them. Big heavy leather, buckles, and grommets just aren't very comfortable.



Thanks and yes the butt -strap is so painful to me, I have had three master saddles and although they were an improvement over that butt-strap, looking at the improved saddles makes me want one, just trying to decide which one.


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## TreeTopKid (Dec 24, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Nice work Dan, good to see you out doing your product evaluations. I put the shackles back on the B-fly and am running 2 bridges on it now, the stock one and a rope one. The rope one just goes through the shackles and has a fat stopper knot on it that can't pull through. This way I can clip in to separate bridges on a double crotch or any other fancy smancy move. During regular climbing I clip around both bridges as a fail safe.
> 
> The Cougar looks like a good compromise between old school tree and new rock type gear. I think they should name their next saddle the Milf, ya know, for marketing purposes.opcorn:



I use a Butterfly II but the original bridge wore out really quickly, ordered 2 x stock replacements. I'm going to look at fitting both now it sounds good. Any advice. I cannot locate any Loctite 22. Do you know of a stockist. Thanks in advance. Have a great Christmas.


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## oldirty (Dec 24, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> I think I'm gonna try the dragonfly 2, seems like a good saddle.
> 
> Maybe even the hitchclimber thingy there like oldirty reccomended.
> 
> I'm sick of feeling obsolete on this site whenever this stuff comes up, lol.





i am either having a heart attack or my heart is swollen with pride. thanks man. lol

i am on the dfly. with the seat, i love the seat. my first saddle had it too. just be sure to keep the leg straps loose so you have full range of movement with your legs. 

i still have the original bridge on the belt but i added safety blue rope bridge because i was sick of looking at the original bridge while i climbed or hung from the ball. i do use that ring on the bridge to girth hitch a sling when i use my dual ascender for footlocking. other than that i am clipped to the rope bridge.


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## tree MDS (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks to you for helping me decide on this stuff oldirty, I need help from you whippersnappers from time to time, lol.

Seriously though, turn 36 next month and I gotta turn it up a notch before I get too old to really enjoy this stuff anymore. Besides I'm getting sick of all these payments so I gotta really bust some trees up next year, lol.

Climbing has always been my specialty, so I just need to get up to date again to stay on top of my game. I guess I got kind of complacent after being the only one that knew anything for a decade or so on my own. 

I hope that saddle works out for me, too bad I'm probably gonna have to wait till spring - I just got a premium bill on my w/c policy, 1800, ouch!


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 24, 2008)

Don't do it MDS, it's just a money pit! 

Just kidding, it's comfortable and a lot of fun. Really though, it gets rediculous spending money. My old man has been complacent for 4 decades, so he feels your pain. He still thinks he's the only guy that knows what's going on, somedays I think he's right, lol. Climbing gear aside, that guy could bring any tree down with a "wiffle bat" to quote The Dan.

Get all the fancy crap, but pay special attention to your climbing hitch setup. That is the biggest change IMO and the most personal. It will change how you move in the tree. 

Here was my progression: Fixed tail with a 3:1 tautline hitch
Split tail with Blakes hitch and micro pulley 
Closed XT Hitch with 8mm Bee line and micro pulley

I am sure you'll get all the help you need to get the best bang for you buck.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 24, 2008)

TreeTopKid said:


> I use a Butterfly II but the original bridge wore out really quickly, ordered 2 x stock replacements. I'm going to look at fitting both now it sounds good. Any advice. I cannot locate any Loctite 22. Do you know of a stockist. Thanks in advance. Have a great Christmas.



Loctite?, don't they sell that stuff at Walmart or any hardware store? 

Just do what I did with a 2nd rope bridge with stopper knots. The only thing I can see with this is the rope bridge will rub the stock bridge in the shackles, I will monitor it for now. I guy could add a second set of shackles or something, I will play around as usual, it never ends.


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## Adkpk (Dec 24, 2008)

treemandan said:


> To be honest I have not yet tried and I apologize my friend. I just do what Nails told me to do with photobucket.
> Do you have a problem seeing his material? I do have to start organizing the 65 pages of photos I took in the last 6 months. I am learning still and I am sorry if you do not get to see the pics. Hope to have some time to look into it, I do procrastinate. I have been meaning to read this book I just bought called " How to get up and get dressed" but I gas the saws the day before.



Danny boy it's easy as pie, man. It's just a dropdown menu preference then it works automatically whenever you upload your pics. I can see your pics fine just takes more time than I can't afford to open them while up here at the weekender. Plus I need to scroll all over the place to read your content. 

Oldirty, I tried the hitchclimber it went right back to Sherrill in the next mail truck. It never made it out of my living room. I ordered it with a hank of Tachyon and a piece of bee line for a split tail and that looks like the winner for me. Too much going on with the hitch climber for me. 

I am sorry I don't have a report on the set up but I although I have had a few climbs I have not been in a tree with the new rope. (I didn't want to get it sticky in a couple of white pines I dead wooded). I have been too busy to post much of anything and my computer needed to visit the shop there for a bit. I wanted to do some climbing today but it's raining atop of the foot and a half of snow we have here. Good thread going on here.


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## tree MDS (Dec 24, 2008)

"Danny boy", lol.

It is looking like a good thread isnt it.

Hey nails, post a pic of this bridge action when you get a chance, would ya??


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 24, 2008)

I will try to get some tomorrow. I have to grab one of the Sugoi too, it went on a diet. Maybe even tonight if I can get home at a decent time.


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## stihl sawing (Dec 24, 2008)

Man, You got some climbing equipment. All them ropes and caribiners hanging off the saddle makes it look confusing to me. Yeah i know i ain't no climber. Just amazed at you guys and how you climb with all that stuff hangin off of you. Keep up the good work.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 25, 2008)

*Hear's the gear.*

I got these shots of the setup today.


Here is the bridge.















This is my standard flipline, it's about 9 feet of 1/2" New England Hi-Vee with a Gibbs adjuster and a steel rope clip tied on the other end. Don't forget the swivel snap on the stopper knot.








The Silky Sugoi mods. I cut off most of the stop on the end of the handle and bevelled the edges with my bandsaw. I took a grinding wheel to the end of the blade and made a rope grabber. The last shot shows how I slimmed down the scabbord by cutting off the leg mounts.


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## custom8726 (Dec 25, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Thanks to you for helping me decide on this stuff oldirty, I need help from you whippersnappers from time to time, lol.
> 
> Seriously though, turn 36 next month and I gotta turn it up a notch before I get too old to really enjoy this stuff anymore. Besides I'm getting sick of all these payments so I gotta really bust some trees up next year, lol.
> 
> ...



X2!! I am in desperate need of some new gear, Im just so use to my old school set up its hard to ajust to something new. 

Nails- What do you use on your bridge? Just a beaner or something else? I like the safety rope for a back up.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 25, 2008)

Here is my XT hitch setup. I am just using biners on the bridge. This setup keeps the hitch close, clutter to a minimum, and 2 biners on the bridge for extra safety. I hope I got it this time.


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## custom8726 (Dec 25, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Here is my XT hitch setup. I am just using biners on the bridge. This setup keeps the hitch close, clutter to a minimum, and 2 biners on the bridge for extra safety. I hope I got it this time.



WTH is going on there?


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## (WLL) (Dec 25, 2008)

get rid of half of that stuff!!! this is what I'm runnin minus the worthless swivel that causes the rope to twist a million times when u load the system. i use the small ring that comes with the b2


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## (WLL) (Dec 25, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> WTH is going on there?


:agree2:


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 25, 2008)

It's a double bridge with a standard closed hitch setup.


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## (WLL) (Dec 25, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> I am not interested in the swivel either.


 i agree it makes things twist more than without the darnd thing. the swivel has gone in the great big box of things i dont care ta use!


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## Wortown Mick (Dec 26, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> i agree it makes things twist more than without the darnd thing. the swivel has gone in the great big box of things i dont care ta use!



Yea but thats a handy dandy box fo sho. 

Who knows when you will need a swivel for some crazy rigging project


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> X2!! I am in desperate need of some new gear, Im just so use to my old school set up its hard to ajust to something new.
> 
> Nails- What do you use on your bridge? Just a beaner or something else? I like the safety rope for a back up.



Glad I'm not alone custom! I know when I get this new stuff its still going to have drawbacks, simply because I am so good at the old style.

Nails thanks for posting those pics of the bridge action - I see why you guys are so eager to modify that chinsy looking stock bridge. 

I also like the idea of two bridges, say if I want two TIP's for big tree pruning or whatever - very nice.

Only drawback I can see is that right now I like to use my climbing line tied right to my 2 D rings (2 overhands) with almost no tail between the D rings and my good old TL when rigging big wood - so I got some tention on my butt strap. Then of course I still have the lanyard as well, just below usually. With all that gadgetry I figure I would be leaning backwards at a 45.


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## custom8726 (Dec 26, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Glad I'm not alone custom! I know when I get this new stuff its still going to have drawbacks, simply because I am so good at the old style.
> 
> Nails thanks for posting those pics of the bridge action - I see why you guys are so eager to modify that chinsy looking stock bridge.
> 
> ...



Hey, Hey, looks like were moving up in the world, Nova's for all.. Lol!!


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## treemandan (Dec 27, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> I got these shots of the setup today.
> 
> 
> Here is the bridge.
> ...



Nice thinking on the bridge now turn around.


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## treemandan (Dec 27, 2008)

Climb with the stuff on the right, rig with left. I will ditch it all in a prune save maybe a redirect . Other than that, if one is missing I start looking around for it like a dog looking for a place to take a crap... you know he is going to find it. 










And then my lanyard termination. I know some guys just leave the tail hanging out the back and even some lanyards just back-splice but I don't. Before the screw clasp on the adjuster it was just a 5/16 screw link. The clasp is way better. Sure it gets bungled but I deal with just unscrewing the beener at the tail end eye splice. I tend to stick with the old style clips on the working end on the lanyard on my primary. My secondary looks just like Nails'.


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## oldirty (Sep 14, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Here is my XT hitch setup. I am just using biners on the bridge. This setup keeps the hitch close, clutter to a minimum, and 2 biners on the bridge for extra safety. I hope I got it this time.



for all you old schoolers wondering what the heck is going on with this setup, it goes like this.

pull down on the rope below the pulley on the right and it will advance your knot up the line.

flip line to the tree. unclip the biner on the left and advance the biner to your next crotch and reclip to the bridge. bang, your tied in. no more untying the whole setup and pulling it through the tree. 

now when you pull yourself up into the tree a little bit and you are in the air you can one handedly advance your knot while holding yourself on the rope with the other hand.

yes new climbers should learn the old way but just this simple little step forward in your climbing game can take it to the next level. i dont care how good you think you are of a climber if you are not up to this point in your game you really "aint" all that. 

you are behind the times. people used to whine about the weight of a chainsaw but you dont see them big ass 2man handsaws being used anymore now do you?

stay safe.


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## oldirty (Sep 14, 2009)

personally i dont like or use the VT or XT. doesnt mean the next guy dont like it but for me there are some better knots to start off with. heck you dont even need to use the prussic to "next step" your game. use a blakes hitch/split tail with a pulley if you want. 

just make a move forward is all i can recommend. makes the climb fun when you aint working so hard. plus it makes being tied in so much easier. no need to free climb when advancing your flipline above the next branch/crotch.


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## oldirty (Sep 14, 2009)

and in no ghey manner do i mean this when i say it but i miss WLL. in a very heterosexual way.


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## arborist (Sep 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> for all you old schoolers wondering what the heck is going on with this setup, it goes like this.
> 
> pull down on the rope below the pulley on the right and it will advance your knot up the line.
> 
> ...



yeah,i was really eying this particular setup myself when i was reading this thread.thinking the same thing,just making a blakes with a tail and trying it.
It really does make sense.


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## arborist (Sep 14, 2009)

I like using a double locking spreader snap to provide extra room in the crotch.(using the basic economy weaver butt strap/4 D saddle)
the rope bridge doesn't really appeal to me.
what if a spreader rope snap was used in place of the bridge on this saddle or the dragonfly?
(im liking the dragonfly i think,due to it's seat).
would this work just fine?
i could keep the spreader snap there,then connect two carabiners like this setup.
sure,it wouldn't have the same range of motion.but i have a feeling i wouldn't like the lopsided,flip flop action the rope bridge probably has to it.
see any problem with my idea? anyone tried it?


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## Tree Pig (Sep 14, 2009)

Hey Dan your hands look a little tender for a tree guy?


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## oldirty (Sep 14, 2009)

arborist said:


> I like using a double locking spreader snap to provide extra room in the crotch.(using the basic economy weaver butt strap/4 D saddle)
> the rope bridge doesn't really appeal to me.
> what if a spreader rope snap was used in place of the bridge on this saddle or the dragonfly?
> (im liking the dragonfly i think,due to it's seat).
> ...



if you really want to get the spreader going on a saddle try the pinnacle. that saddle screams spreader snap. has the butt seat too. (pinnacle will not be good for a rope bridge. IMO)

if you think about it though the rope bridge is going to hang you in the same spot the spreader snap will just that you will be isolated to that spot with that snap.

you get used to that roll along the bridge real quick and often count on it. and you will notice if you go to the split tail when you go to advance the knot the loose split tail might want to creep down the bridge to your connects, not all that cool but you figure out how to beat that issue or make the adjustment. length of the splittail will dictate.


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## oldirty (Sep 14, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Hey Dan your hands look a little tender for a tree guy?



dan might like his gloves but he a tree guy through and through. fulltimer for sure.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> dan might like his gloves but he a tree guy through and through. fulltimer for sure.



Well I like to poke a little fun now and then too, but I here yeah OD


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## treemandan (Sep 14, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> you like those leg straps?? seems to me without a seat of some sort it would be pretty uncomfortable no?



yes, the new seat is way much better.


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## treemandan (Sep 14, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well I like to poke a little fun now and then too, but I here yeah OD



Well actually I went bare handed on that white pine today( " The king called his boogie men") and when I went to pick up my kid from daycare the school marms were all freaked out about my hands being caked in sap... so I stuck a finger up my nose and pulled out a booger the size of kansas.
The guys were using gas to clean their hands but I just used a plastic scouring pad and some water after I got home from the machine shop where they where cuutin the rotor for my wife's car. Dam thing needs 2 front calipers as well. And these subaru motor leak like sives







That's a plate on the block leaking oil, its between the motor and trans. Had to do the head gaskets as well (leaking oil too), t-belt, water pump ecetera ecetera.


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## tree MDS (Sep 15, 2009)

treemandan said:


> yes, the new seat is way much better.



I'm liking the seat on the new saddle. the padded leg straps with deluxe clips are sweet too. I like the versatile because theres no metal clips, so less or no jingle jangleing around.

Oldirty, I like the vt so far, I guess you just have to keep an eye on it thats all, still think its worth it just to have a knot that will never bind - we'll see, still need some more time with the new system. The HC is sweet indeed, I'm getting more used to fiddling around with it at the beginning.


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## Plasmech (Sep 15, 2009)

In my (worthless) opinion, the only bad thing about the cougar is that it's got too much crap hanging off of it, gets a bit busy. I cut some of it off. I question the rope bridge too...looks minimal. Hope it holds up.




treemandan said:


> and its not all bad... better than some. I bought this 6-28-08. I like the belt bucket for the waist strap, its a good saddle, up tp date with many of its likeness. I has some pros and cons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mikemcC (Nov 9, 2009)

All you guys with the cougar do you have the leg straps or the seat? Heard mixed feelings about the leg straps so I wanted to get some more opinions from you guys


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## Plasmech (Nov 9, 2009)

mikemcC said:


> All you guys with the cougar do you have the leg straps or the seat? Heard mixed feelings about the leg straps so I wanted to get some more opinions from you guys



I'm a greenhorn, so be forewarned, but I recently put the seat on my Cougar and it's a lot more comfortable to hang in and easier on the nutbag as well.


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## mikemcC (Nov 9, 2009)

if you buy the one with just the leg straps can you put the seat on down the road if you wanted to? And Plasmech we live near each other. I am up rt73 in Harleysville


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## Plasmech (Nov 9, 2009)

mikemcC said:


> if you buy the one with just the leg straps can you put the seat on down the road if you wanted to? And Plasmech we live near each other. I am up rt73 in Harleysville



Yes you can install the Bosun's seat later. It's not too bad a job.

Cool that we're close!


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## treemandan (Nov 9, 2009)

mikemcC said:


> if you buy the one with just the leg straps can you put the seat on down the road if you wanted to? And Plasmech we live near each other. I am up rt73 in Harleysville



Penn Holo on 73 in Skipack has the saddle with a seat for 250


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## mikemcC (Nov 9, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Penn Holo on 73 in Skipack has the saddle with a seat for 250



I was just there today and tried it on...I really liked it but they only had a large which is a little too big for me since i am only 150lbs. I am going to order one though...I think I am getting the leg straps first and if I am not liking it I will just add on the seat.


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## Plasmech (Nov 9, 2009)

mikemcC said:


> I was just there today and tried it on...I really liked it but they only had a large which is a little too big for me since i am only 150lbs. I am going to order one though...I think I am getting the leg straps first and if I am not liking it I will just add on the seat.



Get the seat and if you don't like it I have new leg straps I'll sell you for 30% off.


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## mikemcC (Nov 9, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Get the seat and if you don't like it I have new leg straps I'll sell you for 30% off.



Alright well Ill let you know, thanks for the help!


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## treemandan (Nov 9, 2009)

mikemcC said:


> I was just there today and tried it on...I really liked it but they only had a large which is a little too big for me since i am only 150lbs. I am going to order one though...I think I am getting the leg straps first and if I am not liking it I will just add on the seat.



Don't bother with those leg straps, they are going get you in the giblets I am telling you don't do it you'll be sorry.

In all honesty if I find the guy who thought up leg straps I am going to get that SOB.


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## lumberjack333 (Nov 9, 2009)

arborist said:


> yeah,i was really eying this particular setup myself when i was reading this thread.thinking the same thing,just making a blakes with a tail and trying it.
> It really does make sense.



Speaking from experience, the XT and VT collapse much easier than a Blakes when using a mechanical system... The blakes is almost suited to the old style, whether that be in an open or closed system. 

For a while I stuck to the blakes even on a mechanical system, because for me having the knot run a little better on the descent made it more controllable... but after I played with the number of wraps on the XT I have found it to be the ideal hitch for me, now that I have everything fine tuned that is.

(BTW that double rope bridge is an A++ idea, I have cougar with an old worn out bridge. Which will soon be replaced with two bridges cut from climbing line :greenchainsaw: thumbs up!)


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## bruce6670 (Nov 9, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Penn Holo on 73 in Skipack has the saddle with a seat for 250



I just ordered one with the seat yesterday from WesSpur for $257. with free shipping.


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## mikemcC (Nov 10, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Don't bother with those leg straps, they are going get you in the giblets I am telling you don't do it you'll be sorry.
> 
> In all honesty if I find the guy who thought up leg straps I am going to get that SOB.



Alright, thanks for the help going to go with the seat, ordering it up in the next few days...Thanks everyone!


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## Marty B (Jan 14, 2010)

*My climbing buddy.....*

bought a cougar with leg straps and after a little testing in the shop (we installed a false crotch around a rafter) he woke up the next morning with some nasty bruises on the inside of his thighs. He's not too happy...this is an interesting thread, anyone care to sum it all up? Is the cougar worth the money, and effort to get the saddle set up properly for a hard day in the tree? Are there any other Cougar owners that can add more info to this thread?


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## Plasmech (Jan 14, 2010)

Marty B said:


> bought a cougar with leg straps and after a little testing in the shop (we installed a false crotch around a rafter) he woke up the next morning with some nasty bruises on the inside of his thighs. He's not to happy...this is an interesting thread, anyone care to sum it all up? Is the cougar worth the money, and effort to get the saddle set up properly for a hard day in the tree? Are there any other Cougar owners that can add more info to this thread?



I've been playing around with mine a lot lately. You will get used to it. Very used to it. Get the butt seat.


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## bruce6670 (Jan 14, 2010)

Marty B said:


> bought a cougar with leg straps and after a little testing in the shop (we installed a false crotch around a rafter) he woke up the next morning with some nasty bruises on the inside of his thighs. He's not to happy...this is an interesting thread, anyone care to sum it all up? Is the cougar worth the money, and effort to get the saddle set up properly for a hard day in the tree? Are there any other Cougar owners that can add more info to this thread?





I bought a Cougar a couple months ago and I don't really care for it.I'm a 34" waist so I went with a medium.I'm on the last hole of the belt and it's still too loose.The d-rings are in the correct spot so I don't think a small would have been appropriate.

I will say that it is a heavy duty saddle so it should last a long time.


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## oldirty (Jan 14, 2010)

you need a nice tight saddle. i got a 36in waist but still went with the smaller size. fits perfect.

martyb. thats why the bosun seat is superior to leg straps. you adjust the seat to find the sweet spot so that when you sit back there it is but the key, the very key to comfort, is having the leg straps as loose as possible. that way you have total leg freedom of movement and you can make any dynamic leg move you need to make to get around in the tree.

think throwing you leg up over a branch. tight leg straps and you cant really lift your leg all that high. loose leg strap allows better movement.

absolutely no thank you to the leg strap attacking your ball bag and i guarantee it will happen along with that bruising and chaffing with leg strap saddles.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 14, 2010)

oldirty said:


> you need a nice tight saddle. i got a 36in waist but still went with the smaller size. fits perfect.
> 
> martyb. thats why the bosun seat is superior to leg straps. you adjust the seat to find the sweet spot so that when you sit back there it is but the key, the very key to comfort, is having the leg straps as loose as possible. that way you have total leg freedom of movement and you can make any dynamic leg move you need to make to get around in the tree.
> 
> ...



I feel the exact opposite about catching the twins in a leg strap. I have over 100 jumps and one of the first things they teach you is tighten them puppies up or your gonna catch one on opening. And when your talking about parachutes catching that sucker on opening is going to do severe damage. I know you have thousands of hours more in a climbing saddle so you may be right but with that strap loose it just seems if you move wrong and sit in you could catch yourself the wrong way and OUCH. But I do agree on the flexibility issue


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## oldirty (Jan 14, 2010)

i hear you som. but if you falling with that kinda force into your saddle then you doing it wrong! lol

think about it though. its constricting. tighten them straps up tight and then try to raise you knee as high as you can. your cant go that high and then because of tightness the saddle moves your whole body.

loose straps and you can move your knee much higher and not get torqued (for lack of a better word) around by the saddle.

and the emphasis should be that you need to adjust the seat so that it hangs right under you butt. so that when you do sit/lean back its already in the perfect position.

freedom man. if you can move fluidly in the tree you can get yourself into better places to work from.


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## Plasmech (Jan 14, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I feel the exact opposite about catching the twins in a leg strap. I have over 100 jumps and one of the first things they teach you is tighten them puppies up or your gonna catch one on opening. And when your talking about parachutes catching that sucker on opening is going to do severe damage. I know you have thousands of hours more in a climbing saddle so you may be right but with that strap loose it just seems if you move wrong and sit in you could catch yourself the wrong way and OUCH. But I do agree on the flexibility issue



Military jumps are all fun and games until you see your buddy get hit with a little 'ol 40mm anti-aircraft round and turn into the proverbial pink mist (which you then fly through and inhale) before your eyes. Ah yea...I remember the war tales of many an old man very well.


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## fishercat (Jan 14, 2010)

*hey Dan.........................*

are you and your Cougar still getting along?


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## Tree Pig (Jan 14, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i hear you som. but if you falling with that kinda force into your saddle then you doing it wrong! lol
> 
> think about it though. its constricting. tighten them straps up tight and then try to raise you knee as high as you can. your cant go that high and then because of tightness the saddle moves your whole body.
> 
> ...



Nah OD I agree 100% with you on the flexibility thing, just not sure on the crushing the stones issue, I think its more dangerous with them loose


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## oldirty (Jan 14, 2010)

i wont lie. i have sat on my balls. just havent squeezed with a strap since i went loose fit.

but i guess you do like to accentuate the ballyard with a tight fit judging by the pic in your sig line. lol.


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## oldirty (Jan 14, 2010)

and i am referring to the stiff seat not the little butt strap you get with them cheap saddles.

the seats that are like sitting on a 2x4 are the saddles i am talking about.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 14, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i wont lie. i have sat on my balls. just havent squeezed with a strap since i went loose fit.
> 
> but i guess you do like to accentuate the ballyard with a tight fit judging by the pic in your sig line. lol.



LOL nah man I tried to go loose but after having it drilled into your head so much its hard to change.


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## outofmytree (Jan 15, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i wont lie. i have sat on my balls. just havent squeezed with a strap since i went loose fit.
> 
> but i guess you do like to accentuate the ballyard with a tight fit judging by the pic in your sig line. lol.



Please don't talk about "the package" or you will receive special S&M attention and then you will need one of these.


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## outofmytree (Jan 15, 2010)

I have used both types of saddles for rope work and find the leg straps to be superior when you need to move around constantly. The bosun seat is nice when you have to sit for any period of time.


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## oldirty (Jan 16, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I've only use leg straps. Are these seats in the way limb walking or working a spar? I'm considering giving one a try mostly based on your positive comments.
> 
> Thanks.



like anything new it takes a moment of adjustment but i dont even notice it. mind you ive only climbed in these types of saddles.

take the petzl sequoia for instance. great saddle to run around in the tree but sit in on the rope and you will soon get a squeezing sensation.in the hips and thigh area.

but with that seat everything is forced off your hips cause of the seat so no pinch. just lean back and enjoy your moment of rest.

i wouldnt try to sell you on a bunk idea, treeco. i know you not a pup anymore so you are not exactly going balls out in the all day any more. make the most of those little breaks and sit comfortably.

stay safe.


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## oldirty (Jan 16, 2010)

you like the butterfly then get the dragonfly! or just order up the seat. i think you can add the seat to the butterfly no problems.


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## Plasmech (Jan 16, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> Thanks for the info Oldirty. I'm climbing in a Butterfly I saddle, looking at options and thinking about getting a new saddle. The Butterfly has been a great saddle and is on it's forth replacement bridge.



Get one of those Treemagineers everything-but-the-kitchen-sink saddles.


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## tree MDS (Jan 16, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I didn't realize a seat was available for the Butterfly. I'll look into it.



I was under the impression that the dragonfly is just a butterfly with the seat??


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## oldirty (Jan 16, 2010)

yup


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