# wedging over trees



## beastmaster (Sep 12, 2016)

I haven't had much cause to wedge over trees in my career. So its kind of new to me in practice but of course I understand the theory.
How safe and reliably is wedging? I'm talking mostly straight up and down conifers or maybe a small amount of back lean. Taking into account potential hazards (wires) if some thing didn't go as planed.
I put a line in ever tree I fell, unless its a obvious lean. One of my co workers who consistently gets high daily tree counts wedges mostly. Should I start practicing wedging or be slow and safe. Just wondering what some opinion are.


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## Rob Biehl (Sep 12, 2016)

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## scheffa (Sep 12, 2016)

It is quite safe and common practice to wedge trees, we do it a fair bit at work, practise and knowledge will tell you how far to move a tree with wedges. Ask the boys in the forestry forum, they probably wedge more than they don't


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## HuskStihl (Sep 12, 2016)

The safety and reliability of wedging depends on the strength and flexibility of the hinge (holding wood). Conifers tend to wedge nicely as the fibers tend to be pretty flexible. It would only take one tree (maybe you left too little holding wood, maybe that tree had internal defects, or maybe you tried to overcome too much gravity) to get you in trouble. Just depends on what is around to get hit if things go wrong.


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## ATH (Sep 12, 2016)

Tall and straight is good! Shorter trees are a little harder because it takes more lift to move the center of gravity past the tipping point. I wouldn't be excited about pushing over a heavy back lean away from a power line, but it is impressive how much back lean can be moved if you have the patience. Know several loggers who wedge most trees...some to go against the natural tendency other times the wedge is just cheap "insurance".


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## omertalogic (Sep 12, 2016)

ATH said:


> other times the wedge is just cheap "insurance".



When our crews drop stubs in the right of ways, wedges are generally used when the feller has made the smallest hinge possible, and can't push it over. Basically it's your safety backup if the ****er refuses to fold. Honestly, nobody I work with has bend brazen enough to say 'look here, I'm going to go against the lean by way of these wedges'. They usually just make their notch peripheral to the lean.

I guess it could be done. If it's monster stub that can hit primaries or someone's property, I reckon a 5:1 or 3:1 would be a better bet.


edit: basically, the ethos with my crew is if you're pulling out the wedges, you've already ****ed up.


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## treebilly (Sep 12, 2016)

If say with a deep notch and stacked wedges 7-10 degrees is safe on conifers. I too set a line most of the time, but I don't worry about numbers. Some days I'll clear cut an acre, other days I might get the brush off one tree. I get paid to get the job done safely with minimal impact


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 12, 2016)

West Coast loggers fall thousands of trees (confers) yearly only using wedges.


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## crotchclimber (Sep 12, 2016)

HuskStihl said:


> The safety and reliability of wedging depends on the strength and flexibility of the hinge (holding wood). Conifers tend to wedge nicely as the fibers tend to be pretty flexible. It would only take one tree (maybe you left too little holding wood, maybe that tree had internal defects, or maybe you tried to overcome too much gravity) to get you in trouble. Just depends on what is around to get hit if things go wrong.



Exactly my thoughts on wedges. It's very situation dependent. On Friday I pounded in some wedges on a 20'x20"diameter spruce stick but decided to opt for connecting the truck to it because it had enough back lean to make me worry the three of us couldn't pull it over. If it went back the neighbor's house was going to get crushed. I'd say we put tag lines in all trees that have a back lean since it usually doesn't take long to get on in and it's cheap insurance. I use wedges primarily to prevent the saw getting stuck prior to pulling over the tree. Of the hundreds of trees I've felled I think I've only wedged over a few.


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## omertalogic (Sep 13, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> West Coast loggers fall thousands of trees (confers) yearly only using wedges.



Yea in that context I can absolutely see the merits of using wedges. I guess it's pretty context dependent. A logging operation isn't next to a priceless deck or low slung powerlines usually.


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## ATH (Sep 13, 2016)

But they still put the tree where it needs to go. Down in the right direction is down in the right direction regardless of what is behind. Some just cause more excitement than others.


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 13, 2016)

crotchclimber said:


> Exactly my thoughts on wedges. It's very situation dependent. On Friday I pounded in some wedges on a 20'x20"diameter spruce stick but decided to opt for connecting the truck to it because it had enough back lean to make me worry the three of us couldn't pull it over. If it went back the neighbor's house was going to get crushed. I'd say we put tag lines in all trees that have a back lean since it usually doesn't take long to get on in and it's cheap insurance. I use wedges primarily to prevent the saw getting stuck prior to pulling over the tree. Of the hundreds of trees I've felled I think I've only wedged over a few.



a 20" peg, 20' tall is going to crush the neighbour's house. Did the 3 little pigs make it out of straw?

It would take some serious wedging to get the Centre of gravity of a 20' back leaning peg over the tipping point. Especially if you made a shallow notch.


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## hseII (Sep 13, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> a 20" peg, 20' tall is going to crush the neighbour's house. Did the 3 little pigs make it out of straw?
> 
> It would take some serious wedging to get the Centre of gravity of a 20' back leaning peg over the tipping point. Especially if you made a shallow notch.



I Believe our Elder says " Steep & Deep." 

Thank You.


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## Philbert (Sep 13, 2016)

Since you are interested, why not practice now, even when you don't 'need' to, so that you get the feel of what they (and you) can do? Then you will have a better idea when you need to. 

I don't fall a lot of trees, but almost always use wedges, to prevent pinched saws, and to practice. 

Philbert


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## hseII (Sep 13, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Since you are interested, why not practice now, even when you don't 'need' to, so that you get the feel of what they (and you) can do? Then you will have a better idea when you need to.
> 
> I don't fall a lot of trees, but almost always use wedges, to prevent pinched saws, and to practice.
> 
> Philbert



Great Post.


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## AT sawyer (Sep 13, 2016)

I've seen plastic wedges spit out of back-leaning trees and once that happens, the back cut can close and you're generally F'd. Metal wedges can take the hit and not compress like plastic, but you've got to be careful not to pound them into your saw.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 13, 2016)

Anybody have that old GOL PDF? It actually had a good section on wedging, and how to calculate the amount of back lean a 1" wedge can overcome.


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## Woos31 (Sep 13, 2016)

You'd be surprised what a couple little plastic wedges can lift. I was taught that you do it right in the face and wedges because there weren't a back up of tying line in it then givin er. If roping it anyway why waste yer energy wedging? Not being a d*ck I just don't know, I've never had that option so I'm just curious here. That or I set it up and pile drive it with another tree (understanding some situation that isn't possible just something I've used when applicable) or Jack it. On the 20' stem 20" through leaning back I would've back cut first, buried some wedges, then cut the face out (again I wasn't there and don't know situation, just another option with wedges to save climbing time) and tickle the face of the hinge till it goes or if there's room for the saw continue the back cut. Like I say I wasn't there to see your job so I'm not flingin stones at all sir just of the wedge yer way out training vs rope it out


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## HuskStihl (Sep 14, 2016)

hseII said:


> Great Post.


You spelled poast wrong, dumbass.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 14, 2016)

Woos31 said:


> If roping it anyway why waste yer energy wedging?


Ropes break.


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## hseII (Sep 14, 2016)

HuskStihl said:


> You spelled poast wrong, dumbass.


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## rarefish383 (Sep 16, 2016)

I think you are already doing it correct, put a tag line in every tree. If you already limbed it out, I can't imagine coming down without putting a tag line in, you are already there. Even if it's straight as a phone pole, you are standing there on your hooks getting ready to come down, there is no reason not to put a tag line in. You brought all of your gear to the tree when you got on the job. The rope is there, it'll take less than 2 minutes from the time your groundie ties it on, till you've got it set. There is no better insurance policy, Joe.


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## CanopyGorilla (Sep 16, 2016)

Once you get used to wedging you know when it is, or is not appropriate in a residential/ line clearing setting. I think every arborist or line guy should get the chance to log for a month or two. It's such good practice when you wax more pigs in one week than most people will in their career.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 1, 2016)

day late what evs...

i at least palm a wedge in every tree, unless it has obvious positive lean... even then sometimes out of habit one goes in.

hanging a line is all fine and good but, it takes fairly long time mucking about even with a big shot, longer if it needs climbed.

i don't get paid by the hour i get paid by the log, so more logs on the ground in a day the more money i make.

things to remember with wedging;

get it in as soon as there is room for it

leave enough hold wood, and this depends a lot on species, just cause its a conifer doesn't mean its got strong fibers, just like hard woods really arn't all that hard when green, whatever happens leave some wood all the way across the stump, on special circumstances or for valuable timbef you can bore the guts out, but at least keep a post on each side.

dont get carried away with beating on a wedge and forget to watch the top, beating wedges causes vibrations, those vibrations break sketchy wood, stop and look listen every couple of hits. also you can watch yer progress a bit one hit of the axe can move the top several feet in tall timber.

lastly avoid wedging dead or rotten snags, as you probably know the tops can be very brittle and like to kill dumb loggers/tree guys that knock loose

anyway i will still rope em off if they are threatening a structure, but i do it less and less now... confident-cocky-dead...


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## RajElectric (Oct 2, 2016)

I agree, tag line and wedges for every residential job. Easier than filling out an insurance claim IMHO. Rural properties can get just the wedges, depending on lean, of 'course.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Oct 4, 2016)

beastmaster said:


> I haven't had much cause to wedge over trees in my career. So its kind of new to me in practice but of course I understand the theory.
> How safe and reliably is wedging? I'm talking mostly straight up and down conifers or maybe a small amount of back lean. Taking into account potential hazards (wires) if some thing didn't go as planed.
> I put a line in ever tree I fell, unless its a obvious lean. One of my co workers who consistently gets high daily tree counts wedges mostly. Should I start practicing wedging or be slow and safe. Just wondering what some opinion are.




Are you saying the guy does in fact ingest an intoxicant and has a lot of wedges he uses instead of ropes?

The problem I have with that is it can take a lot of hammering and heavy breathing.

I was working with a guy the other day wanted to just drop one on its own lean, I was about to shoot a rope. I mentioned getting wedges at least, turned out I had to run to get the wedges.

I let him try, I knew better. The one tree I set up two pulling systems. Its still a lot of work, probably more than with wedges. You have to climb sometimes to set a rope. Still, I think its more secure to use ropes doing work around infrastructure if you know what I mean.

In fact , we were clearing a hillside next to a house, an old 25 foot free standing stone chimney, power wires, spring house...

Would have never wedged the big dead ones off the house.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 4, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> day late what evs...
> *
> i at least palm a wedge in every tree*, ..[/QUOTErr
> 
> ...


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## northmanlogging (Oct 4, 2016)

My palm is good, I don't beat on things with my carpal tunnel,

By palm its logger speak for set a wedge in the kerf, just slip it in, just incase. wacking on one with yer hand isn't going to do much anyway, but a second wedge works good. Also works a sort of bobber or "needle" any movement in the stem is magnified at that wedge's head. Tree starts to go wedge starts to fall, tree wants to set back wedge will sit up a bit, or get very tight.

Worst thing about wedging is if you don't put one in, and then have to figure out how to start one, all that weight is now sitting hard on the back cut so not only are ya trying to figure out how to get a wedge started, buy yer fighting all that weight too, tongue and groove technique can work here if there is enough stem to bore into.


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## beastmaster (Oct 7, 2016)

Ive often wondered when or why the tongue and grove cut could be used. I tried it once just for the novelty of it.
Come to find out the company im working for requires all trees to be roped no matter what. I've gotting pretty good shooting lines up with the bigshot.


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## ATH (Oct 7, 2016)

Where I have seen tongue and grove used is when a log is laying cross slope and the top needs bucked off. Just cutting the top would cause the log to roll down hill. Putting in a T&G means the skidder can grab the butt end of the log and pull breaking the T&G joint as it pulls away.


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## TheJollyLogger (Oct 8, 2016)

Tongue and groove works well for setting a wedge in skinny tall trees under 12 " or so. Face it, bore it, set wedge, then cut your sides, then pound till it breaks over.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 8, 2016)

t+g works but i wouldn't call it a go to.

on smaller junk back cut first start a wedg then face it up, once faced drive wedge.

takes some practice and is real easy to **** up but is marginally safer then t+g.

t+g on a downed tree I've heard that called a russian coupling, never used it though


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## DLEngele (Jan 1, 2017)

I like splitting wedges for felling poles. If the situation calls for it. Wedges are awesome. We work in the great Smoky mountains in Gatlinburg almost every year throwing huge dead hemlock and the dreaded black locust with splitting wedges. Works great on the big ones. Plastic on the little guys. A wedge can't do what a rope dose on some trees of course.


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## treebilly (Jan 1, 2017)

You're right on that, but if one understands what can and cannot be wedged, one can save a lot of time.
I love the Smokies. I spent a week every year there for the first 20 years of my life. I was 2 weeks old on my first visit. Now that I have kids I need to start revisiting. Beautiful place.


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## DLEngele (Jan 1, 2017)

treebilly said:


> You're right on that, but if one understands what can and cannot be wedged, one can save a lot of time.
> I love the Smokies. I spent a week every year there for the first 20 years of my life. I was 2 weeks old on my first visit. Now that I have kids I need to start revisiting. Beautiful place.


Awe yeah! Best treecation ever for me. I am lucky to be able to work the places I get to.


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## Marshy (Jan 1, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> My palm is good, I don't beat on things with my carpal tunnel,
> 
> By palm its logger speak for set a wedge in the kerf, just slip it in, just incase. wacking on one with yer hand isn't going to do much anyway, but a second wedge works good. Also works a sort of bobber or "needle" any movement in the stem is magnified at that wedge's head. Tree starts to go wedge starts to fall, tree wants to set back wedge will sit up a bit, or get very tight.
> 
> Worst thing about wedging is if you don't put one in, and then have to figure out how to start one, all that weight is now sitting hard on the back cut so not only are ya trying to figure out how to get a wedge started, buy yer fighting all that weight too, tongue and groove technique can work here if there is enough stem to bore into.


If I have a second wedge on me I set the first in the kirf then use the second wedge to hammer it in snug. Just saves me from grabbing the hatchet or maul. Gets it more snug than hand set. 

Eventually it becomes second nature to use a wedge.


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## hseII (Jan 2, 2017)

HuskStihl said:


> Ropes break.



Not If you use a big enough one & take care of it. 

Also, don't piss on it.


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## miko0618 (Jan 10, 2017)

I'll fill the back cut with a plastic wedge while I am cutting. If I am felling with wedges alone, I use steel wedges after the saw is out. You can get a tree to go a pretty good ways. If the hinge is solid, I completely trust it. You want your back cut and notch to be as in line as possible. Having a low or high back cut can produce a snap cut that needs broke before the hinge will roll. The problem is that its easy to keep cutting off the hinge thinking its too thick when its the mismatched cut preventing the hinge.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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