# Midsize SUVs



## GeorgiaVol (Jul 8, 2021)

We were in the market for a newer midsize SUV and I have found that there really isn't such a vehicle being made anymore.
Oh they CALL them SUVs, but there is almost nothing utility about them. Just large cars really.
Really wanted a decent RWD midsize with a V6 with decent towing for a small trailer.
I think the Pathfinder was the closest I could find.
GM and Ford don't even make them anymore. 
Dodge Durango maybe, but I refuse to buy another Dodge.
I miss the Blazers and Explorers of old.


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## Slotracer577 (Jul 8, 2021)

While not a popular choice, I was having a similar problem, wanted a small suv, 4x4 that could tow a pair of dirt bikes. Looked at Volvo as they offered decent towing capacity (3500lbs). Ended up getting one, so far it’s been a nice car. Good milage 32-33. Good power 285hp from a turbo 4cyl.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 8, 2021)

Slim pickens aint it?


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## Jed1124 (Jul 8, 2021)

4 door Jeep is about the closest thing I can think of.


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## sean donato (Jul 8, 2021)

Gone are the days of a rugged suv in the mid sized market. I wouldn't touch anything Nissan after all the issues both my brothers have had with theirs. My older brother had a trans go bad from the factory trans cooler leaking (known issue, Nissan refuses to do anything about) then his rear k member rotted clean off the frame. The frame and body are about pristine I have no idea why the k member was so rotten when the rest of the vehicle is basically rot free. Then my younger brother bought a 18 titan, fricken transmission issues from day one, and cracked exhaust manifolds. The trans was replaced under warranty once already, but still does the same goofy doesn't know what gear it's in stuff, and random 3 gear down shifts with minimal pedal position change. Screw that. Both known issues that Nissan hasn't taken care of, and don't get me started on the less then worthless cvt transmission. Don't haul anything with one of them, even boat anchors have more value. I wish Toyota was better priced and didn't rot so bad, I wish honda didn't have such sissy suvs too. I have a first gen crv and it's great, too small but great for what it is. Sits up high enough has 4wd and has been dead reliable. The pilot is one of the vehicles my wife had been looking at recently, but idk if I want to give up the Honda or the expedition if we do get another suv. The new exploders are darn near as big as my expedition but all pansied out. Yeah idk what I'd be getting in. The mid sized market either.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 8, 2021)

Coworker has an 2018 Expedition.
50k miles and the transmission is going out.
What do you expect from a turbo 4cyl in such a large vehicle?
Those cvt transmissions are expected to do a lot these days


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 8, 2021)

Toyota still makes the 4-runner. I have worked on and driven one and they are a beefy little SUV. Other than abysmal fuel milage, the only problem is they are very pricy vehicle but they do hold their value. Ford is reported to be making the full-sized Broncho if you can afford to wait. Another option would be a Tacoma with a rear cap.


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## cookies (Jul 8, 2021)

ford just released the bronco again, honda makes the pilot and yoda offers the 4runner


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## capetrees (Jul 8, 2021)

Jeep Wrangler, Cherokee or Grand Cherokee


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## s sidewall (Jul 8, 2021)

Forget GM, we don't have what I call a SUV, only these crossovers for mid size, only full size SUV's. 

Steve from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 8, 2021)

Chrysler, Chrysler, Chrysler.


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## sean donato (Jul 9, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Chrysler, Chrysler, Chrysler.


Dead or defective in garages everywhere..... junk, junk, junk. 
Mom's owned a jeep as long as I can remember, about the time the 4.0l went away and they embraced independent suspension they went down hill as far as a capable suv goes. She drives all of 2 miles to work one way, and normally trades them in with right around 50k miles on them. Her jump from 98 to 07 was the worst. Constant electrical issues, took a new starter, and water pump before the 30k mark, she got rid of it when the dash would randomly stop working. This 15 she has now has been decent, but still doesn't have many miles on it yet. Pretty sure it will be her last jeep. No comments on the Durango, other then I hear they get crap millage.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 9, 2021)

I know very few people with Chrysler products that have over 100k miles on them that haven't had a ton of problems with them.
Except for their large trucks.
Apparently they did some of those right


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## sean donato (Jul 9, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> I know very few people with Chrysler products that have over 100k miles on them that haven't had a ton of problems with them.
> Except for their large trucks.
> Apparently they did some of those right


If it wasn't for cummins there wouldn't be a dodge/ram/ Chrysler truck anymore. Owned and driven plenty of them. The engine was about the only thing that I was impressed with... the mini vans seems to hang in there for some reason too..


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 9, 2021)

Guess I will just look for another Tahoe around the 2010 year model.
At least I can afford to fix its problems.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 11, 2021)

I found a 2015 Toyota 4Runner Limited with Full Time 4WD with 13K miles on the odometer. Half the price of a new one. The 4Runner is a midsize body on frame SUV. All of its maintenance records are on CarFax and CarFax says its worth more than what I paid for it.


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## lone wolf (Jul 11, 2021)

I highly recommend Toyota for their reliability.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 11, 2021)

lone wolf said:


> I highly recommend Toyota for their reliability.


Stuff on my Full Size 1/2 and 3/4 GM pickups was always breaking. Got tired of constantly wrenchng on them.


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## lone wolf (Jul 11, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Stuff on my Full Size 1/2 and 3/4 GM pickups was always breaking. Got tired of wrenchng on them.


I had Fords Chevys,Mopars Hondas and nothing is a reliable as Toyota. The Chevys really break a lot of stuff.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 11, 2021)

Chevy's do break.
They just don't break the bank.
I have done many repairs on my old Suburban, very few that cost me very much.
Seeing as how I do the work myself, I would rather a $50 repair here and there than a $4,000 transmission less often.
That's just me.
I ain't knocking Toyotas.


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## lone wolf (Jul 11, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Chevy's do break.
> They just don't break the bank.
> I have done many repairs on my old Suburban, very few that cost me very much.
> Seeing as how I do the work myself, I would rather a $50 repair here and there than a $4,000 transmission less often.
> ...


I got 3 Chevy's they are not too expensive to fix but im sick of it.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 11, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Chevy's do break.
> They just don't break the bank.
> I have done many repairs on my old Suburban, very few that cost me very much.
> Seeing as how I do the work myself, I would rather a $50 repair here and there than a $4,000 transmission less often.
> ...


$1,000 for a replacement of a failed cruise control module on a 2002 GMC is not a cheap.


CentaurG2 said:


> Toyota still makes the 4-runner. I have worked on and driven one and they are a beefy little SUV. Other than abysmal fuel milage, the only problem is they are very pricy vehicle but they do hold their value. Ford is reported to be making the full-sized Broncho if you can afford to wait. Another option would be a Tacoma with a rear cap.


Don't be duped by the disinformation being published by the Technical Illiterates of Consumer Reports.

18.6 Average MPG (and 20-23 Highway MPG) isn't poor mileage for a 5th gen 6,500# body on frame, 4WD 4Runner.


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## sean donato (Jul 12, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> $1,000 for a replacement of a failed cruise control module on a 2002 GMC is not a cheap.
> 
> Don't be duped by the disinformation being published by the Technical Illiterates of Consumer Reports.
> 
> 18.6 Average MPG (and 20-23 Highway MPG) isn't poor mileage for a 5th gen 6,500# body on frame, 4WD 4Runner.


Mean wile we have full size pickup trucks that weigh the same getting 21 mpg in the city. Don't fool your self, Toyota makes a fine vehicle, but there are 2 constants with their suv/trucks, they rot like crazy and get crap mileage. Just the nature of the beast. 16 to 18 is garbage for that class of vehicle these days especially when the curb weight is under 5000 lbs. Don't know why you have the gross weight listed as curb weight. A 2013 max curb weight is listed at 4800lbs.


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 12, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> $1,000 for a replacement of a failed cruise control module on a 2002 GMC is not a cheap.
> 
> Don't be duped by the disinformation being published by the Technical Illiterates of Consumer Reports.
> 
> 18.6 Average MPG (and 20-23 Highway MPG) isn't poor mileage for a 5th gen 6,500# body on frame, 4WD 4Runner.


Fuel mileage is sort of a relative thing depending on home much you drive, how deep your pockets are and what you are intend to do with the vehicle. My old jeep ran a 4.0L inline six and it averaged 18mph and it pulled really well. My current truck runs a 6L with a 4:10 rear. It might get about 13mph with a tail wind. It also tows very well. Current commuter is an Accord with a 2L turbo. It averages 33mph and will go from 0 to60 in under 6sec if you do your part. I put about 36k a year on the commuter. For my needs in a commuter car, fuel mileage becomes a concern and is a big factor when vehicle shopping.

Toyota (at least in the states) has resisted the industry trend toward smaller fuel-efficient turbo charged engines. Some have begun to creep through in other countries. Toyota makes great iron. I would buy one of these Yaris GRs in a heartbeat if they brought them into the states. I can get the Honda.



Yaris GR vs Civic Type R: which is faster at the drag strip!? | MOTOR - YouTube


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 12, 2021)

Totally agree.
I wanted a midsize SUV for utility purposes and the occasional family trip.
I have a little Focus for my commuter car.
These new turbo 4 midsize "SUVs" are nothing more than minivans for people who don't want a minivan.
Calling them an suv is a joke.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 12, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Totally agree.
> I wanted a midsize SUV for utility purposes and the occasional family trip.
> I have a little Focus for my commuter car.
> These new turbo 4 midsize "SUVs" are nothing more than minivans for people who don't want a minivan.
> Calling them an suv is a joke.


A Crossover Unibody is NOT an real SUV. Unibodies are made to save weight. Hardcore offroading will break them.

Mid-size body-on-frame SUVs are hard to find. 

Most turbo-supercharged engines require premium gasoline.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 12, 2021)

From 2018, but pretty much sums it up.








20 AWD SUVs That Fail Off-Road (And 5 That Can Handle Anything)


Manufacturers have done a good job of creating the crossover market, unfortunately leaving many SUVs to look more rugged than they actually are.




www.hotcars.com


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 12, 2021)

Just marketing. How many people are really going to go off road in any vehicle?? Although most of the roads around here do look like the surface of the moon.




2021 Ford Bronco | First Drive and Details - YouTube


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 12, 2021)

All of mine end up off road at some point and I expect my SUVs to be able to do some minor towing occasionally.


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## sean donato (Jul 12, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> A Crossover Unibody is NOT an real SUV. Unibodies are made to save weight. Hardcore offroading will break them.
> 
> Mid-size body-on-frame SUVs are hard to find.
> 
> Most turbo-supercharged engines require premium gasoline.


Where on God's green earth do you get this from? Most turbo vehicles don't require high test, haven't for years. There are plenty of off road capable unit body vehicles made. Have been for years. Look at every jeep Cherokee ever made, unibody. Pretty sure last time I was at Rausch creek there were plenty of them running around with all the full frame vehicles. Do everyone a favor and stop spewing false information. Yep Toyota is great, they have better engines over seas then we have here that are both turbo charged, powerful and get good economy.


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 12, 2021)

I cant imagine anything more boring than off-roading but to each their own. Lets go for a drive.



2022 Subaru Outback Wilderness vs. Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road Trail Test - YouTube


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## Jhenderson (Jul 12, 2021)

We’ve been running Jeeps for years. 3 Grand Cherokee (96, 04, , 17) and a 2006 wrangler . They were all reliable. The wrangler can’t hold a candle to a grand Cherokee for traveling comfort . Our 17 gets about 23 mpg in mixed 2 lane and highway driving with the 3.6 litre. It’s got decent power but not great unless it’s turning pretty high rpm. It’s also outstanding on icy or snowy New England winter roads.


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## Del_ (Jul 13, 2021)

We are quite happy with our 2019 Toyota Rav4.

Almost 40 MPG on road trips.


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## Husky Man (Jul 13, 2021)

I Love my 2021 Jeep Wrangler 




It has the 3.0 liter Turbo Diesel, 260 hp, 442 ft/#’s of torque, and I still get 30MPG on the highway, IF I keep my foot out of it





The 6x10 enclosed trailer is quite a bit taller than the Jeep, even with the “V Nose “ it does feel the extra wind resistance, and really knocks the fuel mileage down, but most trailers do, at 65-75mph. It is only rated for 3,500# of trailer, but the Gladiator, with the same engine is rated at 6,750#, it isn’t the engine that is lacking, lighter Axles, brakes and a lighter vehicle, all add up to a lighter tow rating

I had an 01 Cherokee XJ, with the 4.0 liter in line 6, that pulled a 5,000# 24’ travel trailer very well, even with the 31” tires, never dropped below 38mph on Cabbage hill in Oregon, that is over 7 miles of near continuous 6% grade. The XJ struggled with the travel trailer after I put the 33” tires on it, but by that time, I had my F350 4x4 , and I rarely used the XJ for pulling the travel trailer after that

The Wrangler can take the 35” tires stock, but I plan on putting a 2.5” lift kit on it, for tire chain clearance










we can get a bit of snow, and I have to be able to travel from home to Wenatchee, WA, Medford,OR even to Reno, NV for work, year round.

I put a LOT of Miles on for work, I bought the Wrangler a week before Christmas, and I already have over 18,000 miles on it. I still have a few more upgrades to do, even after the lift, but this is my Favorite Vehicle that I have ever owned, already

Doug


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 14, 2021)

So.....been looking and I believe the last true midsize sUv by GM was the Trailblazer/Envoy in 2009.
5k lb towing, which is PLENTY for what I want, plus true 4wd.
That is what I will be looking for.
In the highest trim I can find.


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

T4r for sure, Just got 19.5 mpgs over the 450 mile trip from the beach. I’ll never own another p.o.s. Mopar in my life.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

I have no problem with a Toyota except people want an arm and s leg for them.
2006 Toyota 4 runner
267k miles
$15,000
No low ballers


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> I have no problem with a Toyota except people want an arm and s leg for them.
> 2006 Toyota 4 runner
> 267k miles
> $15,000
> No low ballers


Toyota’s in general hold their value but especially the Tacoma and 4r. If that 06 is a v8 it’s probably worth it. 06-09 v8s were great but due to their popularity and track record you can actually find the Lexus gx470 for less. Same truck, more features. Only reason I’ll sell mine is if I love the new tundra or they update the 4Runner to include a modern trans and ac seats in the off road model. I owe about 3k on it and could probably sell it for 30-35k. We’ve had it almost 5 years and put 76k miles on it. Paid $39,500 for it new.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

Too rich for my blood. Lol
I would rather just get a GMC and bank the extra cash for any problems that might come up.
I found a loaded 2007 GMC Envoy with 115k miles for $12k


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## lone wolf (Jul 15, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Too rich for my blood. Lol
> I would rather just get a GMC and bank the extra cash for any problems that might come up.
> I found a loaded 2007 GMC Envoy with 115k miles for $12k


Get a Toyota.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

I'm still looking.
That Envoy was quite a bit on the high side for the year.
Market stinks right now, but I am not in a hurry.


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## lone wolf (Jul 15, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> I'm still looking.
> That Envoy was quite a bit on the high side for the year.
> Market stinks right now, but I am not in a hurry.


Who knows the way prices are rising because inflation and steel and all.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

Yep, who knows.
Still not in a hurry.
It is a want at the moment, not a need.


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## lone wolf (Jul 15, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Yep, who knows.
> Still not in a hurry.
> It is a want at the moment, not a need.


Well only buy for a need.


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Too rich for my blood. Lol
> I would rather just get a GMC and bank the extra cash for any problems that might come up.
> I found a loaded 2007 GMC Envoy with 115k miles for $12k


With the awful 5 cylinder? That’s 12k too rich for my blood. The japs can’t be beat on reliability or resale.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

Of course.
Wants turn to needs eventually with vehicles, so just looking ahead so I don't end up buying something I don't want because I need it NOW.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

ElevatorGuy said:


> With the awful 5 cylinder? That’s 12k too rich for my blood. The japs can’t be beat on reliability or resale.


No 5 cylinder.
V6.
I want the V8 model though, if I find the right one. Then 2 of my trucks would share the same engine.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

If I could get all my vehicles with a Chevy 5.7 I would, but they phased it out in 2000


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> No 5 cylinder.
> V6.
> I want the V8 model though, if I find the right one. Then 2 of my trucks would share the same engine.


I meant inline 6


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

Yeah, I thought they used the same i5 that my neighbor had in his old canyon. My uncle had the i6 in his suv, can’t remember if it was the Chevy or Gm version. Either way, my cousin is a Gm master tech and loves either inline from Gm. They made him tons of money off just my neighbor and cousin, I can’t imagine how much more from others lol.

I used to love my chevys but I’m not well versed on them anymore. I’ll likely never buy another American vehicle again.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 15, 2021)

ElevatorGuy said:


> Yeah, I thought they used the same i5 that my neighbor had in his old canyon. My uncle had the i6 in his suv, can’t remember if it was the Chevy or Gm version. Either way, my cousin is a Gm master tech and loves either inline from Gm. They made him tons of money off just my neighbor and cousin, I can’t imagine how much more from others lol.
> 
> I used to love my chevys but I’m not well versed on them anymore. I’ll likely never buy another American vehicle again.


I don't like most of their new stuff, which is why I started the thread.
The 5.3 is a great engine, but I do not like all these turbo 4s and their complicated transmissions big$$$$$ to repair.
I enjoy wrenching on the old engines. 5.7s were simple, the 700r4 trans is super cheap to replace. You can keep those trucks going forever.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 16, 2021)

Here is a pic of my other "mid" size SUV from back when I had Swampers on it.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 18, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Here is a pic of my other "mid" size SUV from back when I had Swampers on it. View attachment 918638



I sold my 1989 GMC 4WD Burb at 240,000 miles when the bottom end of the 5.7L V-8 was going out. It also had a lot of intermittent electrical problems. My son's old body style 1990 4WD Burb also had a ton of electrical problems.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 18, 2021)

Just time for a rebuild. Or a crate engine


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 18, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Here is a pic of my other "mid" size SUV from back when I had Swampers on it. View attachment 918638


Cool truck but a tad large to be midsize haha. Please tell me that was 4wd.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 19, 2021)

ElevatorGuy said:


> Cool truck but a tad large to be midsize haha. Please tell me that was 4wd.


Gas hog behemeth. Not midsize. Note the locking front hubs


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 19, 2021)

ElevatorGuy said:


> Cool truck but a tad large to be midsize haha. Please tell me that was 4wd.


Speaking of full-size SUVs, can't beat a Toyota LandCruiser


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 19, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Gas hog behemeth. Not midsize. Note the locking front hubs


Didn’t even think to look lol.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 19, 2021)

FYI, the Toyota 4.7L V-8 is a million-mile engine.

Why This Is the Best SUV Ever Made​


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 19, 2021)

*Don't let the initial purchase price of a Toyota fool you. The total cost of ownership of a Toyota is lower than other brands.*​​Toyota's Reliability Secrets REVEALED​


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 19, 2021)

How Toyota Changed The Way We Make Things​The Japanese Car Company is a corporate behemoth - but it's done much more than just give us Corollas or Land Cruisers. It's changed the way the world makes products. Here's how.


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## sean donato (Jul 19, 2021)

Man have you drank the coolaid


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 19, 2021)

Tis a tad much.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 19, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Gas hog behemeth. Not midsize. Note the locking front hubs


Gas hog?
Nah. I get at least 11 mpg with it.


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 19, 2021)

Toyota does make some good iron. They also collaborate with other car manufactures to produce certain vehicles. The Toyota supra is a rebadged BMW. The 86 is a rebadged Subaru BRZ. They also collaborate with Mazda on electric vehicles. The new MX-30 Mazda is reported to have a cork interior, suicide rear doors and a Wankel rotary. Now that is crazy awesome.



MAZDA　　Zoom-Zoom - YouTube


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## sean donato (Jul 19, 2021)

CentaurG2 said:


> Toyota does make some good iron. They also collaborate with other car manufactures to produce certain vehicles. The Toyota supra is a rebadged BMW. The 86 is a rebadged Subaru BRZ. They also collaborate with Mazda on electric vehicles. The new MX-30 Mazda is reported to have a cork interior, suicide rear doors and a Wankel rotary. Now that is crazy awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> MAZDA　　Zoom-Zoom - YouTube


Funny you mention cork interior, wife just said about cork flooring... small world. Lol.


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## Husky Man (Jul 19, 2021)

CentaurG2 said:


> Toyota does make some good iron. They also collaborate with other car manufactures to produce certain vehicles. The Toyota supra is a rebadged BMW. The 86 is a rebadged Subaru BRZ. They also collaborate with Mazda on electric vehicles. The new MX-30 Mazda is reported to have a cork interior, suicide rear doors and a Wankel rotary. Now that is crazy awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> MAZDA　　Zoom-Zoom - YouTube


My Best Friend of almost 35 years, was a Toyota Master Mechanic, he said that they were Excellent cars.

But he Rarely lacked for work either, even Toyotas break down, and need more than “Scheduled Maintenance “

Doug


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## ElevatorGuy (Jul 20, 2021)

Husky Man said:


> My Best Friend of almost 35 years, was a Toyota Master Mechanic, he said that they were Excellent cars.
> 
> But he Rarely lacked for work either, even Toyotas break down, and need more than “Scheduled Maintenance “
> 
> Doug


Yup, skip the timing belt and water pump service and see what happens!


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 20, 2021)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Gas hog?
> Nah. I get at least 11 mpg with it.


Kaizen is a foreign idea to GM.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 20, 2021)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Kaizen is a foreign idea to GM.


It is an 89 Suburban 4x4 with big tires and 4.11 gears.
It ain't exactly built with gas mileage in mind.
It will pull my 16' equipment trailer like it is nothing though.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 20, 2021)

ElevatorGuy said:


> Yup, skip the timing belt and water pump service and see what happens!


@100,000 miles on an interference engine

The water pump on my 1968 Dodge D200 failed at 20,000 miles. Plus, needed a valve job every 50,000 miles. Blew blue smoke at 150,000 miles.


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## GeorgiaVol (Jul 20, 2021)

Dodge sucks.
My Avenger's went out, it was a $900 bill to replace.
I have never had a Chevy's go out that cost me more than $100 and maybe an hour of work.
Most of the cars I have owned were $25 and 30 minutes.


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 20, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Funny you mention cork interior, wife just said about cork flooring... small world. Lol.


I did look this up. Apparently, you can harvest cork off trees every 9 or so years and the trees can live to 200-250 years old. Neat stuff. Some of the examples of cork flooring look spectacular.


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 20, 2021)

Husky Man said:


> My Best Friend of almost 35 years, was a Toyota Master Mechanic, he said that they were Excellent cars.
> 
> But he Rarely lacked for work either, even Toyotas break down, and need more than “Scheduled Maintenance “
> 
> Doug


I think my 01 Camry had a timing belt. The 2 newer ones had chains. Got to tell you, I can count on 1 hand the number of repairs I did to all three cars other than routine maintenance. Both of the newer cars are still on the road pushing 300k each. Only reason I switched to Honda Accords was to get a manual transmission. For the record, performance of the Accord is way better than a Camry.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Jul 21, 2021)

CentaurG2 said:


> I think my 01 Camry had a timing belt. The 2 newer ones had chains. Got to tell you, I can count on 1 hand the number of repairs I did to all three cars other than routine maintenance. Both of the newer cars are still on the road pushing 300k each. Only reason I switched to Honda Accords was to get a manual transmission. For the record, performance of the Accord is way better than a Camry.



Timing belts on interference engines are an obsolete design of years past. Even the boxer engines in Subarus have evolved from timing belts to timing chains.

The total cost of ownership of Asian vehicles is far lower than the total cost of ownership of Made in the USA, Made in Canada and Made in Mexico crap. 

People buy Asian cars for reliability, not for performance.


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## CentaurG2 (Jul 21, 2021)

I will agree with you on the reliability. The only thing I replaced on my 05’ Camry other than maintenance items was the driver side front caliper. Sold that car in 2017 with 235k on it and it still had the original Panasonic battery. Manual 5-speed tranny. Made in Japan. Good stuff. Performance? I would take either of these cars without complaint.



Chris Harris races the Honda Civic Type R vs Lexus LC500 | Top Gear: Series 25 | BBC - YouTube


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