# Would you climb this?



## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

Ice storm victim. Cant really get any equipment close enough because of a narrow as heck driveway and a neighbor who doesnt want anything or anyone on there driveway. It would be a simple job, just a go up an butt tie most of them. Just not enough room to just let em drop. Plus I am afraid one could go brush first and bounce back into neighbors garage. Anyway, sticking to my question....based on these photos...think its safe? The tree has been like this for a week and we had rather strong winds about four nights ago. And also a pounding of a thunder storm last night ....and its still up. I worry alittle about "the hair that broke the camels back" on this one. There are no trees close enough or tall enough to tie in to. View attachment 174168
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## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

If someone feels like it could they please explain to me how to post photos so they are just like already there when u click on a thread. OBV i cant figure it out. Thanks in advance.


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

Bucket that #####! I certainly would watch rigging off it. I'd piece it with a bucket or use a crane. Is there room to wholesale it?


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## RacerX (Feb 28, 2011)

I wouldn't climb that.


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## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Bucket that #####! I certainly would watch rigging off it. I'd piece it with a bucket or use a crane. Is there room to wholesale it?


 
Well , like I said ...neighbor not to friendly and there driveway would make it simple. Piece it out would be a no brainer but they said NO WAY is ANYONE driving a big truck on our driveway. I guess its just "not there problem". The HO drive is very narrow. Even if you squeeze a bucket up drive I dont think it would reach. In fact ....I know it wont. Maybe a smaller crane....a spyder "type" lift would sure the heck solve the problem....It is an insurance job and I know they wanted HO to get a few bids so who knows....I may need to bid it high enough to rent a small lift. If I get it...cool...if not....still cool ...I think someone around here will climb it, just not sure it should be me. But it is very tempting. I really want opions from other skilled climbers who can simply give advice without $$$$$ clouding there judgement. I am smart enough to know this COULD happen to me so....I figure if your judgement is clouded then u wouldnt know it...or it wouldnt be clouded...Know what I mean? LOL


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## Blakesmaster (Feb 28, 2011)

If you're not bidding high enough to afford a lift rental on that deal, then you aren't bidding high enough to climb it.


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Well , like I said ...neighbor not to friendly and there driveway would make it simple. Piece it out would be a no brainer but they said NO WAY is ANYONE driving a big truck on our driveway. I guess its just "not there problem". The HO drive is very narrow. Even if you squeeze a bucket up drive I dont think it would reach. In fact ....I know it wont. Maybe a smaller crane....a spyder "type" lift would sure the heck solve the problem....It is an insurance job and I know they wanted HO to get a few bids so who knows....I may need to bid it high enough to rent a small lift. If I get it...cool...if not....still cool ...I think someone around here will climb it, just not sure it should be me. But it is very tempting. I really want opions from other skilled climbers who can simply give advice without $$$$$ clouding there judgement. I am smart enough to know this COULD happen to me so....I figure if your judgement is clouded then u wouldnt know it...or it wouldnt be clouded...Know what I mean? LOL


 
Then go ahead and climb then What the hell do ya mean clouded. You ask for an opinion and you got one. If you cant make that decision base on being there in person then obviously your not experience enough to know. How the hell do you expect people on here to give you the absolute best advice from a bunch of pics. Clouded!!! Yeah I sure would want lots of money to climb than SOB its not worth it. So I guess im clouded:msp_cursing:


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## Blakesmaster (Feb 28, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Then go ahead and climb then What the hell do ya mean clouded. You ask for an opinion and you got one. If you cant make that decision base on being there in person then obviously your not experience enough to know. How the hell do you expect people on here to give you the absolute best advice from a bunch of pics. Clouded!!! Yeah I sure would want lots of money to climb than SOB its not worth it. So I guess im clouded:msp_cursing:


 
I think he meant his judgment is clouded 'cause of the money. lol. But your point is the same as mine, NC, I'd need a lot of money to climb it, more than enough to cover a lift rental.


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

If you climb that tree and rig it then you better know what kind of forces you'll be putting on that tree. From the looks of the pic most of the forces from rigging on it will end up in that weak spot. Becareful ACE!


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> I think he meant his judgment is clouded 'cause of the money. lol. But your point is the same as mine, NC, I'd need a lot of money to climb it, more than enough to cover a lift rental.


 
Yeah maybe im being a little harsh but if he cant figure it himself from looking at it then he shouldn't be climbing that tree.


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## Natewood (Feb 28, 2011)

I climb those all the tim. Thow a line inn the crotch and counter tie it and spend as little time as possible in it. heck i might even give you a price on what I want to do it for you lol!


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

Natewood said:


> I climb those all the tim. Thow a line inn the crotch and counter tie it and spend as little time as possible in it. heck i might even give you a price on what I want to do it for you lol!


 
there you go natewood climb it. :notrolls2:


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## beav700 (Feb 28, 2011)

I would climb it. Like Natewood said. throw a line and tie it on the opposite side to counter your weight. Then throw a second line to the furthest point you'll be climbing and pull on the tree. Have two people pull it. If the tree takes it, you are good to go. Looks like a healthy wood that would most likely support at least 1000 lb.


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## climberjones (Feb 28, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Ice storm victim. Cant really get any equipment close enough because of a narrow as heck driveway and a neighbor who doesnt want anything or anyone on there driveway. It would be a simple job, just a go up an butt tie most of them. Just not enough room to just let em drop. Plus I am afraid one could go brush first and bounce back into neighbors garage. Anyway, sticking to my question....based on these photos...think its safe? The tree has been like this for a week and we had rather strong winds about four nights ago. And also a pounding of a thunder storm last night ....and its still up. I worry alittle about "the hair that broke the camels back" on this one. There are no trees close enough or tall enough to tie in to. View attachment 174168
> View attachment 174169
> View attachment 174170
> View attachment 174171


 Risky gig brother!


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## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Then go ahead and climb then What the hell do ya mean clouded. You ask for an opinion and you got one. If you cant make that decision base on being there in person then obviously your not experience enough to know. How the hell do you expect people on here to give you the absolute best advice from a bunch of pics. Clouded!!! Yeah I sure would want lots of money to climb than SOB its not worth it. So I guess im clouded:msp_cursing:


 
Dude...WTF is your problem??? I have plenty of experence i just want some other opions. U need to freakn chill out...


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

beav700 said:


> I would climb it. Like Natewood said. throw a line and tie it on the opposite side to counter your weight. Then throw a second line to the furthest point you'll be climbing and pull on the tree. Have two people pull it. If the tree takes it, you are good to go. Looks like a healthy wood that would most likely support at least 1000 lb.


 
Whatever dude! Climbing it is one thing rigging off of it is another thing. Thats tree has to be rigged if he climbs it the trees is hanging over the house. Shouldn't you be post in the firewwod section.


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## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Yeah maybe im being a little harsh but if he cant figure it himself from looking at it then he shouldn't be climbing that tree.


 
I wasnt trying to imply that your judgement was "clouded"....GD man...freakn bite my head off


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## electrictrimmer (Feb 28, 2011)

I would climb it without a doubt. Once you get 200-250 lbs out of it then your fine. That number would represent your weight. If its cracking on the way up you might want to re think it, but if that side is solid I would climb it for sure.


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Dude...WTF is your problem??? I have plenty of experence i just want some other opions. U need to freakn chill out...


 
I dont have a problem, seems like you do though Just stating my opinion maybe it sounds harsh but thats my opinion. Yiu don't have to take it. Take natewood and beav700 opinion and climb it. I don't really care what you do. Good Luck! let us know how it goes


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## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

I dont even have the job yet. I still need to send in my bid. I need it sent sometime tomorrow. A lift rental will likely price me out depending on who else they get prices from. I know there are guys around here who will climb it. Simple job assuming it stays up.


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## flushcut (Feb 28, 2011)

How thick is the remaining trunk? If it is like a foot or better give it a shot. I would tie into the stems behind you and use something like a tear a way saw lanyard as your safety, just in case. I sure as hell would not rig anything off of that while you are spured in, just bomb it if you can. You can call a rental yard for a small towable lift or have them deliver something that will fit your need. Just be careful your gut instinct will tell you everything you need to know as long as you are listening.


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## NCTREE (Feb 28, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> I dont even have the job yet. I still need to send in my bid. I need it sent sometime tomorrow. A lift rental will likely price me out depending on who else they get prices from. I know there are guys around here who will climb it. Simple job assuming it stays up.


 
bottom line is your unsure about it that should be a red flag. I know you want the job to prove yuorself that you can do it but it not worth bidding it low and getting ####ed in the process. Let someone else get it unless you can get it for the right price. Maybe you need the money and I understand that but what if something goes wrong you'll be kicking yourself. Bid it for a safe takedown and don't undercut yourself. Good luck


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## treeman75 (Feb 28, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> bottom line is your unsure about it that should be a red flag. I know you want the job to prove yuorself that you can do it but it not worth bidding it low and getting ####ed in the process. Let someone else get it unless you can get it for the right price. Maybe you need the money and I understand that but what if something goes wrong you'll be kicking yourself. Bid it for a safe takedown and don't undercut yourself. Good luck


 
If you did get and something went wrong its your name on the job. The home owner and neighbors will tell people so and so droped a tree on the house. Chances are nothing would happen. It looks like it would be less than 800., it might be better to move on down the road to the next job.


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## lync (Feb 28, 2011)

Drop it on the neighbors property, hopefully one of the stubs will punch a hole in the beloved driveway. I hate people who won.t help out in a pinch. What if you offer to plywood the drive way so the tires of the truck never touch it? Explain that its the only safe way,and there is a risk of death should the tree fail with you in it.


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## TreeAce (Feb 28, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> bottom line is your unsure about it that should be a red flag. I know you want the job to prove yuorself that you can do it but it not worth bidding it low and getting ####ed in the process. Let someone else get it unless you can get it for the right price. Maybe you need the money and I understand that but what if something goes wrong you'll be kicking yourself. Bid it for a safe takedown and don't undercut yourself. Good luck


 If taking the time to think about it and weigh my options and getting some other opions from folks on AS means I am "unsure" then I guess I am. But one things for sure...I have nothing to prove...I am far to old for that crap. I just wanted to hear some thoughts on it.


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## beowulf343 (Feb 28, 2011)

beav700 said:


> I would climb it. Like Natewood said. throw a line and tie it on the opposite side to counter your weight. Then throw a second line to the furthest point you'll be climbing and pull on the tree. Have two people pull it. If the tree takes it, you are good to go. Looks like a healthy wood that would most likely support at least 1000 lb.



"Looks like??" This post may be one of the dumbest things i've heard up here in commercial. (Of course, an engineer.):msp_rolleyes:

From the pictures, i wouldn't climb it.


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## ShermanC (Feb 28, 2011)

*Stop flaming Treeace and help him figure this risky bearcat out to a sold job*

The law cases in Lew Bloch's book Tree Law Cases sure ring a familiar bell to me for this job. The options seem few and far between. Before I took to a lift bucket in 2001 I climbed. Based on what the four photos show, there's too much top weight up there to add the weight of a climber. One wrong move and it could snap mid-way up, like a barber-chaired felling cut because that's where the trunk has the least strength. Our industry is loosing too many workers and we must get smart about managing risk. Don't let the homeowner make you feel guilty about your fees and methods. Make sure your liability insurance is in force. The emphasis shifts to taking the tree from an equal or taller height. Visit YouTube for crane accidents and you can foresee what might happen here.
Think about a subcontract to a tree service that owns and insures their spider lift. It would be practical to reach the height but it ought not be used as a crane to lower the wood. To rope drop each cut will increase the time factor 3X. The photos don't show if the tree could be "wholesaler" to the ground without all the hassles.

What is the possibility the HO would offer the uncooperative neighbor IN WRITING, signed by both parties and notarized providing a deposit of $250 cash for access to their driveway with an insurance rider for liability and $250 more 
cash when the job is cleaned up and complete, backed up by photographs. If anyone thinks this idea is crazy buy Mr. Bloch's book and get ready to shake yournhead in amazement at what happens when trees fall the wrong way. That $51.00 book was worth a $1,000 class on this subject.
Good luck and be careful TreeAce.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 28, 2011)

You should call 'Tree Slayer! He can do anything!!!!
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## lego1970 (Feb 28, 2011)

Is there anything in the front yard or am I not looking at it right? To me it looks like you could set a pull rope up in it and notch and drop from the ground. It kinda looks like most of the weight is leaning out towards the front yard, but maybe I'm not looking at the pics correctly.


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## capecodtree (Feb 28, 2011)

*possible solutions*

I can't tell from the pics but you may be able to a) secure bullrope in crown, run rope through adjacent tree's higher crotch (strap&pulley, lowering device) base cut, let tree swing away from structure and lower tree under control b) secure bullrope in crown, use straps w/pulley to redirect to truck, base cut and pull to safe spot. It appears some storm damage has already fallen and may provide a spot to pull the tree into? A crane is my first choice. When I was young and needed money I did alot of unsafe climbing, Please if you have any doubts walk away.


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## flushcut (Feb 28, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> You should call 'Tree Slayer! He can do anything!!!!
> Jeff :msp_biggrin:


 
I'll tell him you said that when I see him tomorrow.


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## Mikecutstrees (Feb 28, 2011)

I'd climb it. I did one just like that last year. I'd rig small, bomb stuff or cut and toss. At the very least don't butt hitch. Avoid shock loading. Tip tie or maybe speed line. When you climb to the split, examine it for cracks and further splits. If your really not sure just pass or find another way. Good Luck

Mike


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 28, 2011)

I guess if I was 7 or 8 years younger, I would find a LZ and go up as lite as you can. Don't rig nothing, Only cut what you can handle and weigh your decisions as you go. Also, 'do you think you can safely ride it down if it fail's? I would for sure bid that in. Probably when you get to the weak spot and the ground guy's are scrambling to get debris that flung over the next door guy, you could be cutting and throwing. Then the call the next day say's you broke a dog ear on their fence. 
Sometime's it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission. 
Jeff


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## pdqdl (Feb 28, 2011)

That is a silver maple, right?

I think I would climb it. The weak part has already broken off. The fork that split off wasn't contributing much strength to the remaining parts anyway.

Go up to the crotch where the top was broken or cut out in the past, tie off, and then come down a ways to cut off small parts below. Rope everything down. Work back up to your TIP, and then send it down in reasonably small branches.

Speedlining in the direction away from the lean should be pretty safe. I do like the idea about securing the tree against the lean with a ground anchor of some sort. 

Once the top is out, no more worries. It will be much lighter then, and chunking it out should be plenty safe.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 28, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> That is a silver maple, right?
> 
> I think I would climb it. The weak part has already broken off. The fork that split off wasn't contributing much strength to the remaining parts anyway.
> 
> ...



Are you suggesting he rigs off that tree.?


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## pdqdl (Feb 28, 2011)

Yep. Just make the top lighter before you start catching big chunks.

That tree broke up during an ice storm, and the ice has clearly melted off without taking out the remaining parts of the tree. While that is no guarantee of structural integrity, I would count on it holding the small branches that would need to be caught. Ice is very heavy; much heavier than a climber and the small amount of force a careful climber would put on it.

You see, if he had posted a pic of that tree BEFORE the other half split off, nearly everyone would have jumped him for being chicken. That was obviously a weak fork, and was presenting the same rigging risk prior to the storm damage that it has now. It's just that we get in the habit of thinking a tree is safe because it hasn't split _yet._.

Shucks. It doesn't look that big or high, either.


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## tree MDS (Mar 1, 2011)

I think it's assuming an awful lot to say the remaining part is just as strong as it was before the tearout.. even though I was kinda thinking the same thing. Not the same when you actually gotta be the one to go up the thing. The last pic gets my armchair spidey senses going.. lol.

I can't tell if thats a red or a silver. Either way, that's some weak wood to begin with.

The support lines were probably the best idea here... maybe do a pull test with the lean and see if you can get it to flomp down on the guys house. I'm sure he would understand..


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## tree MDS (Mar 1, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Dude...WTF is your problem??? I have plenty of experence i just want some other opions. U need to freakn chill out...



Hahahaha..

Maybe NC got into LXT's stash of Red Bull! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## squad143 (Mar 1, 2011)

Hard to tell from the pics. I've climbed similar ones, but without being there it is difficult to be sure. There doesn't seem to be much wood at the split. If that is the case, bid it with the price of a lift and if you don't get it, move onto the next job. If money/work is that tight, ask yourself..."would I do it if I was busy?"

Best of luck.


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## TreeAce (Mar 1, 2011)

If I have time today maybe I will stop by the tree and take some more pics. Not sure I will be able to though. There is def room under this tree. I am leaning towards tieing it off in two directions and free falling some and roping some out small. I do know this..I am gonna bid it plenty high. More than likely I wont even get this job. It just depends on who else is bidding. I think someone will send a 20 year old climber up there and not think anything of it. A young climber who just doesnt have a clue and thinks his boss is smart and trusts him. I know of a couple guys like that around here. The tree is simple assuming it holds....but if not...well, death or serious injury isnt a for sure cuz its just not that high....but I sure the heck dont want any part of that crap...OBV.. We will see, I will do my best to give an update.


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## NCTREE (Mar 1, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Hahahaha..
> 
> Maybe NC got into LXT's stash of Red Bull! :hmm3grin2orange:


 
No way i'm no where near as bad as that guy.

I misunderstood his post. I gave him my opinion, I thought he was saying it wasn't good enough for him with the "clouded" statement. I didn't realize he was talking about himself, my bag. i'm battling a nasty cold right now so im a little short tempered sorry for the shrude attitude. My gf is about ready to kill me, she been telling me I need to come to yoga with her so I can center myself:msp_cool:


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## ducaticorse (Mar 1, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Then go ahead and climb then What the hell do ya mean clouded. You ask for an opinion and you got one. If you cant make that decision base on being there in person then obviously your not experience enough to know. How the hell do you expect people on here to give you the absolute best advice from a bunch of pics. Clouded!!! Yeah I sure would want lots of money to climb than SOB its not worth it. So I guess im clouded:msp_cursing:




Bro, i'm still not clear on how you really feel about the situation!


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## ducaticorse (Mar 1, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Hahahaha..
> 
> Maybe NC got into LXT's stash of Red Bull! :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Perfect....


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## NCTREE (Mar 1, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> Bro, i'm still not clear on how you really feel about the situation!


 
What wasn't I clear about...I said I wouldn't climb that tree it's too risky. All these guys on here saying they'd climb it is bad and irresposible advice. No one can look at that picture and say it's safe to climb beyond a reasonable doubt. I would hate to see TreeAce get hurt going upon what people are saying on here. It would be a different story if we were all there looking at that tree in person.

This my opinion and TreeAce doesn't have to heed to my advice just hope it works out for him. Stay safe and don't be a hero. 

I hope this has answered your question ducati.


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## ducaticorse (Mar 1, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> What wasn't I clear about...I said I wouldn't climb that tree it's too risky. All these guys on here saying they'd climb it is bad and irresposible advice. No one can look at that picture and say it's safe to climb beyond a reasonable doubt. I would hate to see TreeAce get hurt going upon what people are saying on here. It would be a different story if we were all there looking at that tree in person.
> 
> This my opinion and TreeAce doesn't have to heed to my advice just hope it works out for him. Stay safe and don't be a hero.
> 
> I hope this has answered your question ducati.


 
It's a shame there isn't a "sarcasm" font to choose from on here... I was roasting you bro... All good....


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## NCTREE (Mar 1, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> It's a shame there isn't a "sarcasm" font to choose from on here... I was roasting you bro... All good....


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## NCTREE (Mar 1, 2011)

Hey ducati their is only a few people on AS who's opinions I value you and respect, most of which don't even post here anymore. It's hard to tell who's got your back and who's got a knife to it. It's a shame cause their isn't many places to go to socialize with real arborists anymore.


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## tree MDS (Mar 1, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Hey ducati their is only a few people on AS who's opinions I value you and respect, most of which don't even post here anymore. It's hard to tell who's got your back and who's got a knife to it. It's a shame cause their isn't many places to go to socialize with real arborists anymore.


 
You sound paranoid NC. Nobody has any knives.. really! :msp_sneaky:


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## ducaticorse (Mar 1, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Hey ducati their is only a few people on AS who's opinions I value you and respect, most of which don't even post here anymore. It's hard to tell who's got your back and who's got a knife to it. It's a shame cause their isn't many places to go to socialize with real arborists anymore.


 
You're right... For what it's worth, last week in the 101 forum this fool was asking how to direction cut/drop limbs over a friggin power line. No one thought to tell him not to learn those types of cuts over the power until I chimed in! They were just telling him how to do it.... Absurd.


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## ShermanC (Mar 1, 2011)

*Who to listen to and what to listen for...*

During my college yrs., we had a wise and quiet student-instructor named Russ Nickel who had so much patience with us gung-ho undergrads. You could ask Russ a question and he'd grin and look at you and say,"let a word to the wise be sufficient". How many times I have used his saying the past 50 years.

In these forums I've noticed we get some silly questions, some inexperienced answers and maybe even some dumb looks. The not-so-famous comedian Bob Duback often used this quip: Butt...who nose? as he'd switch to another joke. So we just go with the flow and keep trying to help each other.
Man, I hope TreeAce is successful with that tree bid project. It'll be interesting to see how it works out and comes down.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 1, 2011)

beav700 said:


> I would climb it. Like Natewood said. throw a line and tie it on the opposite side to counter your weight. Then throw a second line to the furthest point you'll be climbing and pull on the tree. Have two people pull it. If the tree takes it, you are good to go. Looks like a healthy wood that would most likely support at least 1000 lb.


 
Thats smart ... Put a guy line on it and hand throw it , i wouldn't run any ropes off of it , but those silver maples are pretty light.... But thats me don't take my word from it I am looking at pics of your tree..I agree with MDS that tree is no weaker now as when it had the other side attached ...


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 1, 2011)

treeman75 said:


> If you did get and something went wrong its your name on the job. The home owner and neighbors will tell people so and so droped a tree on the house. Chances are nothing would happen. It looks like it would be less than 800., it might be better to move on down the road to the next job.


 
Ummm I thin the bigger picture is if the tree drops theres gonna be a climber attached to it ... So who gives a #### about the house when theres a climber hurt , but in this case I think he will be fine to climb high and cut small ...


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 1, 2011)

Pretty simple. Based on what I see in the pic, would I climb past the split? No.


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## treemandan (Mar 1, 2011)

Natewood said:


> I climb those all the tim. Thow a line inn the crotch and counter tie it and spend as little time as possible in it. heck i might even give you a price on what I want to do it for you lol!


 
that's how I do em. And I could talk my way right onto the neighbor's property too. Well, that don't always work but I would put it in there anyway and say it was mistake and the cops would be on my side.


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## Rickytree (Mar 2, 2011)

Isn't this tree branch the same strength as it was with the other half up. And the way everyone would of climb this tree would of been climb up to center, tie in and rope, cut off branches. Chances are that when going out on this limb you probably wouldn't of been going out with all your weight in your rope. So what's the diff? Tree work is inherently dangerous with calculated risks. But hard to tell by some pic's. Use your judgement. It always boils down to it's your life do what you want with it.


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## JCONN (Mar 2, 2011)

I agree with putting guy lines up would think that would be key for what ever approach you would make. Cant tell from the pics I know it looks like its leaning pretty good but not much weight, throwing two pull lines in it and bringing it over onto the rest of that broken mess could be an option. Again its hard to tell from pics either way be safe and remember that @## neighbor will prob complain about saw dust on his drive so make sure you bid high. Also if you are giving the bid to the ho explain to them the risks and the kind of hacks that are out there and what could happen its usually there choice on who does the work. Win the bid in part with your knowledge.


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## TreeAce (Mar 2, 2011)

I have been contacted by the insurance agent and she is killing me with pricing everything seperate. How much to get tree off fence , how much to clean up brush, how much to trim damaged tree , how much cut damaged tree down, how much to clean up damaged tree if cut down, how much to clean up brush on other side of fence , how much to RAKE on other side of fence....HOW MUCH TO RAKE UP!?! She is dead serious. I have been trying to emphaze the importance of dealing with the tree that is a clear danger but she seems to be more worried about the tree laying on the fence. The HO's daughter,whom I have been dealing with, agrees that it is OBV important ..BUT..she is waiting because she is under the impression her moms (HO) insurance will cover the removal. I told the HO to take her dog out in the FRONT yard for awhile, LOL....she agreed.

The "damaged" tree i refered to is the tree that the other piece fell into. Not the tree that is half standing.


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## lego1970 (Mar 2, 2011)

Is the tree in the backyard? In the original post you mentioned neighbors garage and I guess I just naturaly assumed the garage was in the front of the house. If the tree is in the backyard then yea, disregard my post unless the HO doesn't mind you felling a tree onto their home. I was kinda wondered why you couldn't just throw some mats down in the front yard and get a bucket truck to it.

After reading all the other post, I'm still kinda iffy on it. I've done trees that looked like that in the past and felt pretty confident in them once I take some weight off them, but I don't climb as much anymore so I can't say that I would, plus that one looks a little thinner in the split area then one's I've done. 
I'm curious to see what route you take. Be carefull and goodluck.


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## pdqdl (Mar 2, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> I have been contacted by the insurance agent and she is killing me with pricing everything seperate. How much to get tree off fence , how much to clean up brush, how much to trim damaged tree , how much cut damaged tree down, how much to clean up damaged tree if cut down, how much to clean up brush on other side of fence , how much to RAKE on other side of fence...


 
The insurance company is making you chop it all up so that they can pay their customer less. They are going to only pay for certain parts of the job, and then stick it their customer.

You should expect that they will probably only pay for removing the broken components that are on valuable property (probably not the neighbor's, either), perhaps the insureds lawn, possibly only cutting down the tree safely. Hence the separate price to remove from the fence. It all depends on how the fine print is worded in the homeowners insurance policy, and how their adjusters can get away with interpreting the fine print.

Several times I have done work for insurance bids; they were always carefully worded as to how much was hazardous removal, how much was cleanup, etc. Typically, they decline to pay for removal and disposal.

One time, they only paid us to remove the tree from on top the house. onto the house from the neighbor's property, yet we were prohibited from throwing the wood back on to the neighbors abandoned lot. They did not pay for the disposal, either. Needless to say, the bulk of our bid was for removing the uprooted, leaning tree from on top the house.

_*They don't want to tell you why they are breaking it down into pieces, nor what parts they are going to decline, because they know you will bump up estimate for the covered components to minimize the homeowners personal expense on the job.*_


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## mpatch (Mar 2, 2011)

same thing a midget hooker once told me.......if you have to ask........


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## TreeAce (Mar 2, 2011)

"They don't want to tell you why they are breaking it down into pieces, nor what parts they are going to decline, because they know you will bump up estimate for the covered components to minimize the homeowners personal expense on the job. "

Which is why I just bumped up EVERYTHING. I understand they only want to pay for some of what needs to be done. I personally have doubts they will pay to have the rest of the tree taken down. HO daughter thinks they will....


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## Natewood (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the deal is(in our area) the only give 500 for debris cleanup/removal and typically thats the deductible. time to get creative in your invoice wording .I fought with an adjuster over them trying to screw my customer(bc we do work like that before adjusters make it out) and he told me to interpet cleanup as raking and debris removal as driving the truck to the dump.Sounds fair to me!


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## Natewood (Mar 2, 2011)

I think that tree they'd pay to take the other side down! even though it is as strong(theoretically) as when the other side was up, it looks dangerous.I cant believe the tree is still standing days after.We do trees like that on the spot.
a good (and valid) argument you can make for the standing halfs removal is that it is an immediate danger because its not acclimated to its enviroment and with a lean and biased weuight it could fall at any time.
I've had some ins co.s not pay for the standing side and then tell the HO to take care of it or get canceled. it happens a lot more now after katrina/wilma when they started crying broke


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## Koa Man (Mar 3, 2011)

I would call James, the narcoleptic tree cutter. He gets things done cheap and climbs anything. :msp_laugh:


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## ShermanC (Mar 3, 2011)

*Very interesting...the plot thickens like gravy left on the stove too long.*

After I read Natewood's thoughts I wondered how much is the HO's deductible. Then I wondered if the insuror's reason to segment the bid into types of work is their way of telling the HO the policy only covers property damage and won't cover possible hazardous conditions, i.e. leaving the trunk standing unless the HO wants to pay for its removal. If so, this will result in someone being awarded only the work to remove the hazardous top, then dispose and clean up while staying off the XXXXy neighbor's property, all at the HO's expense unless the job exceeds the deductible. The way this case is developing, it would be smart to get all understandings in writing or walk away from it.:msp_ohmy:


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## climberjones (Mar 3, 2011)

I bid a pin oak that had broke loose from the ground and was just being held up from the tree beside it the tree was hanging over this very nice garage with a 60s something restored t bird and a lot of nice property inside A good wind was all this tree needed to be blown onto the garage . The insurance company said they didnt care until the tree was on it!!!!!!


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## ShermanC (Mar 3, 2011)

*Sad but true climberjones*



climberjones said:


> I bid a pin oak that had broke loose from the ground and was just being held up from the tree beside it the tree was hanging over this very nice garage with a 60s something restored t bird and a lot of nice property inside A good wind was all this tree needed to be blown onto the garage . The insurance company said they didnt care until the tree was on it!!!!!!


You wrote this leaving room for us to ask...did you get the job and do you have photos to share? This situation reminds me of a sitcom of the 1950's called The Life of Riley starring William Bendix. Often he would get uptight and say, "What a revolting development!" 
Then I thought about Wylie Coyote and how he might set up that pin oak to fall on Roadrunner and miss the T-Bird. It sure helps to have a sense of humor for working in the tree service business.


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## pdqdl (Mar 3, 2011)

Insurance companies tend to not pay for tree work. Risk is everywhere, and they expect the HO to keep risk to a minimum.

They pay for damage, and only damage that is insured. So...disposal, cleanup (unless damage-related), risk elimination: those are all things they do not feel liable for.

They WILL cancel a policy if you have a known risk that you do not eliminate, though! Don't ask for them to pay for tree trimming; that's like saying you want them to loose money paying for your responsibility.


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## Natewood (Mar 3, 2011)

yeah, you know how many times I get called for a dangerous TD and when they hear the price they'll say" I'll just wait for it to fall and let the ins take care of it". This is why ins companies are not paying for everything because it almost encourages HO's to be negligent.


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## Natewood (Mar 3, 2011)

treetopguy2028 said:


> After I read Natewood's thoughts I wondered how much is the HO's deductible. Then I wondered if the insuror's reason to segment the bid into types of work is their way of telling the HO the policy only covers property damage and won't cover possible hazardous conditions, i.e. leaving the trunk standing unless the HO wants to pay for its removal. If so, this will result in someone being awarded only the work to remove the hazardous top, then dispose and clean up while staying off the XXXXy neighbor's property, all at the HO's expense unless the job exceeds the deductible. The way this case is developing, it would be smart to get all understandings in writing or walk away from it.:msp_ohmy:


 
All you need to worry about is the contract with your client , not their ins. co. of course I'd be accomodating but its really not your problem what is covered since the tree has to be removed anyways.I cant believe it is still standing, in my area you have 24hrs to correct hazards or the township will contract someone to do it and hand you the bill. Oh and if you dont pay it it goes on your tax bill. Neighbor must not be that terrible!! lol


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## climberjones (Mar 3, 2011)

treetopguy2028 said:


> You wrote this leaving room for us to ask...did you get the job and do you have photos to share? This situation reminds me of a sitcom of the 1950's called The Life of Riley starring William Bendix. Often he would get uptight and say, "What a revolting development!"
> Then I thought about Wylie Coyote and how he might set up that pin oak to fall on Roadrunner and miss the T-Bird. It sure helps to have a sense of humor for working in the tree service business.


 
Negative did not get the job ho didnt want to pay for it he just thought he could call insurance guy because it was inevitible it would fall on it and they would take care of it prior to it falling WWRRRROOOOONGG!!!!


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## TreeAce (Mar 3, 2011)

I havent heard back from Insurance agent yet. She prolly has nothing to say to me after the prices I quoted her :jawdrop: I dont think I even care at this point if she does call. I am grateful to say that I have a nice work load right now. That little ice storm has been a great thing for me. If things hold together ok it looks like I could actually be AHEAD of the game heading into the new season. Its suppossed to rain all day tomorrow. If it does I will take a ride and see if the tree is still up and snap some more photos. Even just for our viewing pleasure. Maybe I will even knock on the neighbors door and see for myself "how they are"....I have nothin to lose by trying to talk to them. One time a HO told me to stay away from neighbors property cuz he is a prick...I HAD TO USE HIS YARD....so I go and talk to the guy myself. Dude was cool as heck. Really nice guy...he just hated HIS neighbor...my customer. He had no problem with us roping some limbs down into his yard, AS LONG AS WE ASKED...


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## prentice110 (Mar 3, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> I havent heard back from Insurance agent yet. She prolly has nothing to say to me after the prices I quoted her :jawdrop: I dont think I even care at this point if she does call. I am grateful to say that I have a nice work load right now. That little ice storm has been a great thing for me. If things hold together ok it looks like I could actually be AHEAD of the game heading into the new season. Its suppossed to rain all day tomorrow. If it does I will take a ride and see if the tree is still up and snap some more photos. Even just for our viewing pleasure. Maybe I will even knock on the neighbors door and see for myself "how they are"....I have nothin to lose by trying to talk to them. One time a HO told me to stay away from neighbors property cuz he is a prick...I HAD TO USE HIS YARD....so I go and talk to the guy myself. Dude was cool as heck. Really nice guy...he just hated HIS neighbor...my customer. He had no problem with us roping some limbs down into his yard, AS LONG AS WE ASKED...


 
Now you say your busy.... If I were starving, I wouldve climbed it but I sure wouldnt have been happy about it. If you go out there and take more pics, take some of the front of the house. I wanna see why a crane wont reach. Also take some looking toward the drop zone. Its just a tree.


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## TreeAce (Mar 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Now you say your busy.... If I were starving, I wouldve climbed it but I sure wouldnt have been happy about it. If you go out there and take more pics, take some of the front of the house. I wanna see why a crane wont reach. Also take some looking toward the drop zone. Its just a tree.


 
Ya, it's just a tree. Really not that big a deal at all. I must say I really do regret starting this thread. Are u impling that by me saying I am busy is somehow the same as saying I am scared? All I am saying is that I havent heard back and I dont care if I do. As far as reaching it with a crane from the front yard...of course it could be done...but not very practical given the size crane needed to reach that far into back yard. IDK..maybe I am wrong. I have misjudged what my buddies 28ton crane can reach before. I am sure his 40 ton could reach it though. But I think it would mean blocking off street because its narrow. But it could be done.Next thing with that is my dude or the ONE other guy I know of with a crane that size wont even pull it outa the barn for less than a grand. So with that cost and paying my help and then maybe I could make some money to....it is not practicle. I really didnt start this thread to find out how to do this job IF I get it. I am a big boy and can handle it just fine. If I do go take another look at it I doubt I will post pics. Just to many F heads with smart a.ss know it all comments. Or at least one and thats to many for me....


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## TreeAce (Mar 4, 2011)

You know what...I wanna take back the F head part...thats outa line. I think wise a.ss know it all drunk is more like it...but u r not a F head...


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## NCTREE (Mar 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> You know what...I wanna take back the F head part...thats outa line. I think wise a.ss know it all drunk is more like it...but u r not a F head...


 
and who would that be?opcorn:

Thats quite a statement to make about someone without even knowing them


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## tree MDS (Mar 4, 2011)

LOL!

One time I had a storm damaged black locust that I had been considering climbing, fall down in the interim.. makes one think.

I really don't think (within reason) that a climber can ever be too careful when assessing a tree like that. It's what keeps us alive.

I wouldn't worry so much about the armchair arboring here Ace, it's just the crap you have to wade through around these places. It's all good though..


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## tomtrees58 (Mar 4, 2011)

yup that one is easy but i would not rope it just chunk it


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## TreeAce (Mar 4, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> LOL!
> 
> One time I had a storm damaged black locust that I had been considering climbing, fall down in the interim.. makes one think.
> 
> ...


 
You are right. I just get alittle tired of it sometimes. It can be frusterating. I feel like this thread has been alittle misunderstood. Prolly my own fault. When someone posts on here "would you" it is easily taken for " I dont know what to do". I do need to lighten up. My daughter woke up with a 102.8 fever and I drew short straw on staying home with her. It is supposed to start raining here soon but I know we coulda worked....more frustration...


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## justme23005 (Mar 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> You are right. I just get alittle tired of it sometimes. It can be frusterating. I feel like this thread has been alittle misunderstood. Prolly my own fault. When someone posts on here "would you" it is easily taken for " I dont know what to do". I do need to lighten up. My daughter woke up with a 102.8 fever and I drew short straw on staying home with her. It is supposed to start raining here soon but I know we coulda worked....more frustration...


 


I think most of us understand why you started this thread, and appreciate you asking our opinions. (not advise) we realize that you are perfectly capable of doing the job properly. It never hurts to ask for a second opinion, and thats how I took it.. 

Would that tree hold you without breaking? Hell yeah.. of course it will.. Would I climb it? No, Not unless work was really slow, & I needed the money REALLY bad..


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## TreeAce (Mar 4, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> and who would that be?opcorn:
> 
> Thats quite a statement to make about someone without even knowing them


 
That comment has nothing to do with you...just an FYI. As far as prentice goes, my comment is based on past comments and threads posted by him. Although, I am sure if I looked enough I could prolly find a post by him that doesnt have atleast a negative twist to it. There must be one out there.


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## ShermanC (Mar 4, 2011)

*Yes sir I agree!*



justme23005 said:


> I think most of us understand why you started this thread, and appreciate you asking our opinions. (not advise) we realize that you are perfectly capable of doing the job properly. It never hurts to ask for a second opinion, and thats how I took it..
> 
> Would that tree hold you without breaking? Hell yeah.. of course it will.. Would I climb it? No, Not unless work was really slow, & I needed the money REALLY bad..


 
TreeAce deserves a pat on the back ataboy for taking time to do this thread. IMO those who replied with sarcasm in a smart aleck way have not yet come close enough to the grim reaper. I did in 1999 falling 20' and landing on my right hip, broke the hip, laid in traction three days because area hospitals were full of airline passengers. A commercial airliner crashed while landing, the day before I fell. My tree did not fail, but I did in my setup of the work. Of those who have learned from this thread they are likely appreciative for it. Those who flamed the thread...good luck and be careful out there. The grim reaper lies silently in waiting!


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 4, 2011)

The wisdom to walk away leaves you to climb another day.

I get spiderlifts all the time for $200, bill for 250. That hasn't broken a deal yet. In fact, most folks gripe about a big heavy truck, and I share what I will use and it often gives me an edge. I would think the time saved alone would almost offset the rental somewhat. Some even do not want me climbing it because of their perceptions, and they are relieved when I mention the lift as an option.

Don't regret starting this thread.....if nothing else maybe someone will learn something from it someday.


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## prentice110 (Mar 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Ya, it's just a tree. Really not that big a deal at all. I must say I really do regret starting this thread. Are u impling that by me saying I am busy is somehow the same as saying I am scared? All I am saying is that I havent heard back and I dont care if I do. I am a big boy and can handle it just fine. If I do go take another look at it I doubt I will post pics. Just to many F heads with smart a.ss know it all comments. Or at least one and thats to many for me....


 
Yo chill the ---- out! Im not accusing anyone of being scared. If anything your smart for not wanting it. My point is that if your busy, why even waste your time worrying about this one . Pay attention. And I hope your kid feels better.


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## prentice110 (Mar 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> That comment has nothing to do with you...just an FYI. As far as prentice goes, my comment is based on past comments and threads posted by him. Although, I am sure if I looked enough I could prolly find a post by him that doesnt have atleast a negative twist to it. There must be one out there.


 
Doubt it. LOL !!! Dont mind me Im bi-polar and want to napalm the world. BTW, I havent had a drink since January. (edited part) AND IM REALLY BORED!!!!


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## TreeAce (Mar 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Doubt it. LOL !!! Dont mind me Im bi-polar and want to napalm the world. BTW, I havent had a drink since January. (edited part) AND IM REALLY BORED!!!!


 
Alright....I am sorry. And I am glad to hear u haven't been drinking. My comment was a low blow and I do apoligize. I just took what u said wrong...I been doin that alot lately... I havn't had a drink in awhile myself and would suggest you keep it up. It has been NOTHING but good for me.


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## NCTREE (Mar 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Alright....I am sorry. And I am glad to hear u haven't been drinking. My comment was a low blow and I do apoligize. I just took what u said wrong...I been doin that alot lately... I havn't had a drink in awhile myself and would suggest you keep it up. It has been NOTHING but good for me.


 
Hey man its hard sometimes to understand where folks are coming from on here. Having a conversation with out seeing facial expressions and tone of voice can make things difficult. At least you were brave enough to start a thread like this. Most would have took on the job and ask questions later. Like MDS said you have to weed through the BS, don't let it discourage you. Thanks for sharing.


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 4, 2011)

Looks like a fun one Treeace! I'd climb it. Did one similiar to it in the Falls last summer. Roped down the limbs and chunked the rest over the deck and agsp. Could see and feel it bending at the ripped out crotch. They do get very brittle though so anticipate your cuts going quicker than usual. I could give ya a hand with it when this rain stops, take care of the little one in the meantime.


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## lego1970 (Mar 5, 2011)

NCTREE said:


> Hey man its hard sometimes to understand where folks are coming from on here. Having a conversation with out seeing facial expressions and tone of voice can make things difficult. At least you were brave enough to start a thread like this. Most would have took on the job and ask questions later. Like MDS said you have to weed through the BS, don't let it discourage you. Thanks for sharing.



Very good point.
Yep, that's one of the biggest problems with forums. It's hard to tell if somebody is messing with you or not. When they first started putting in satilite communication in semi trucks back in the mid 90's we ran into the same problem. Sure it was nice because you didn't have to stand in line at a truckstop waiting for a phone, but you lost certain aspects of communication that you would normaly pick up in person or over the phone. If it was a dispatcher that you didn't know, it was hard to tell if they were screwing with you or if it was just a communication breakdown. Now that cell phones are everywhere it's made communication with a dispatcher or boss much easier, however more and more people are texting and it's gonna slide back the other way again. Oh, well.


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## TreeAce (Mar 5, 2011)

The tree is still standing. No one has done anything. I did a drive by this morning after an estimate that was close by. I was in a hurry and it was early so i didn't try n talk to "the mean nieghbor".


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 5, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> I havent had a drink since January.



Good going! I quit drinking for quite a while, now I do not have more then one or two beers in a night. It took me many years to finally quit smoking, now if I could just kick Caffeine!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 5, 2011)

Btw, I think i had intended to post here before it got so long, but my response crashed somehow and got lost.

In case no one has said this; I would throw a line up and pull-test the tree to see where the moment of bend is. If the damage does not greatly effect the what the remaining wood bends I would climb it with no worries. If the bend could hold my weight, I would go up it and not rig off of it.

If i heard any cracking...Id run like H E dbl ELL


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## TreeAce (Mar 6, 2011)

The only problem with that is if it does come over with the "rope test" I will look like an idiot. Although it is def better to look bad that way VS looking bad "rider down" style. I am VERY worried about free falling anything here. It is just to close to nieghbors garage. I am pretty good at dropping things to land flat but somtimes they still go alittle brush first and then bounce back towards the tree. If that happens it will likely hit garage. Hitting garage is out of the question. They wont even let anyone use driveway (so I hear) God forbid U so much as scrath that garage. I would DEF walk away before I free fall anything I cant get a good grip on and pitch out. If I get this job I am leaning towards "guy lines" off back side of tree. Atleast two..prolly 3. Then rope off small what I cant FORSURE hold onto and pitch. I have done before what I call "light n easy" roping. Mostly stuff no bigger than my forearm and I us an over head rope as much as I can. I also mostly would use my silky on these cuts. Kinda let it "peel over" without an under cut. I can do this with little or no shock. 

Here is a picture of the driveway that I am told we CANNOT use. The tree is right off the left corner of nieghbors garage. There is def room under the tree but there is also a rather large lilac that you cant see and Iam sure they dont want trashed. But remember..atleast for me..free fall is a no go because I am to close to garage. I personally wont do it.


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## justme23005 (Mar 6, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> The only problem with that is if it does come over with the "rope test" I will look like an idiot. Although it is def better to look bad that way VS looking bad "rider down" style. I am VERY worried about free falling anything here. It is just to close to nieghbors garage. I am pretty good at dropping things to land flat but somtimes they still go alittle brush first and then bounce back towards the tree. If that happens it will likely hit garage. Hitting garage is out of the question. They wont even let anyone use driveway (so I hear) God forbid U so much as scrath that garage. I would DEF walk away before I free fall anything I cant get a good grip on and pitch out. If I get this job I am leaning towards "guy lines" off back side of tree. Atleast two..prolly 3. Then rope off small what I cant FORSURE hold onto and pitch. I have done before what I call "light n easy" roping. Mostly stuff no bigger than my forearm and I us an over head rope as much as I can. I also mostly would use my silky on these cuts. Kinda let it "peel over" without an under cut. I can do this with little or no shock.
> 
> Here is a picture of the driveway that I am told we CANNOT use. The tree is right off the left corner of nieghbors garage. There is def room under the tree but there is also a rather large lilac that you cant see and Iam sure they dont want trashed. But remember..atleast for me..free fall is a no go because I am to close to garage. I personally wont do it.




Rope test it at night... If it falls on the neighbors garage, I bet they will let you use their driveway to clean it up.. problem solved.


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## treeman75 (Mar 6, 2011)

If you had to cut and throw you can use one of those loop runners. I just bought a couple, you would have much better grip.


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## climberjones (Mar 6, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> The only problem with that is if it does come over with the "rope test" I will look like an idiot. Although it is def better to look bad that way VS looking bad "rider down" style. I am VERY worried about free falling anything here. It is just to close to nieghbors garage. I am pretty good at dropping things to land flat but somtimes they still go alittle brush first and then bounce back towards the tree. If that happens it will likely hit garage. Hitting garage is out of the question. They wont even let anyone use driveway (so I hear) God forbid U so much as scrath that garage. I would DEF walk away before I free fall anything I cant get a good grip on and pitch out. If I get this job I am leaning towards "guy lines" off back side of tree. Atleast two..prolly 3. Then rope off small what I cant FORSURE hold onto and pitch. I have done before what I call "light n easy" roping. Mostly stuff no bigger than my forearm and I us an over head rope as much as I can. I also mostly would use my silky on these cuts. Kinda let it "peel over" without an under cut. I can do this with little or no shock.
> 
> Here is a picture of the driveway that I am told we CANNOT use. The tree is right off the left corner of nieghbors garage. There is def room under the tree but there is also a rather large lilac that you cant see and Iam sure they dont want trashed. But remember..atleast for me..free fall is a no go because I am to close to garage. I personally wont do it.


 Lets say in the pic you showed of the garage that were looking south could you not rig it to fall southeast ???or is there stuff in the way back there i cant tell from pic,


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 6, 2011)

When i do a pull-test I will progressively add force. I may look how the wind loads it first. Put a trowline pu where you want to tie-in and bounce it a little. If the movement is not in the defect area, add some loading. With included tear-outs like that, the bending moment is usually above or below. 

I assume there is no adjacent tree to tie into, or set a line between two to climb off of?


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## TreeAce (Mar 6, 2011)

treeman75 said:


> If you had to cut and throw you can use one of those loop runners. I just bought a couple, you would have much better grip.


 
Thats good thinking. I like that idea. I have used rope to "hold on" to a limb and then untie it and toss but your idea is better. Just have a few runners handy and have em sent up later. Or just slip off an toss branch.


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## TreeAce (Mar 6, 2011)

climberjones said:


> Lets say in the pic you showed of the garage that were looking south could you not rig it to fall southeast ???or is there stuff in the way back there i cant tell from pic,


 
There is no room to fell it with or without neighbors OK. Fences,garages,houses,trees,lilacs,etc...


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## TreeAce (Mar 6, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> When i do a pull-test I will progressively add force. I may look how the wind loads it first. Put a trowline pu where you want to tie-in and bounce it a little. If the movement is not in the defect area, add some loading. With included tear-outs like that, the bending moment is usually above or below.
> 
> I assume there is no adjacent tree to tie into, or set a line between two to climb off of?


 
I got ya. No, there are no trees close enough that are tall enough to help.


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## ShermanC (Mar 6, 2011)

*The new photo shows why a crane job is not applicable.*



TreeAce said:


> The only problem with that is if it does come over with the "rope test" I will look like an idiot. Although it is def better to look bad that way VS looking bad "rider down" style. I am VERY worried about free falling anything here. It is just to close to nieghbors garage. I am pretty good at dropping things to land flat but somtimes they still go alittle brush first and then bounce back towards the tree. If that happens it will likely hit garage. Hitting garage is out of the question. They wont even let anyone use driveway (so I hear) God forbid U so much as scrath that garage. I would DEF walk away before I free fall anything I cant get a good grip on and pitch out. If I get this job I am leaning towards "guy lines" off back side of tree. Atleast two..prolly 3. Then rope off small what I cant FORSURE hold onto and pitch. I have done before what I call "light n easy" roping. Mostly stuff no bigger than my forearm and I us an over head rope as much as I can. I also mostly would use my silky on these cuts. Kinda let it "peel over" without an under cut. I can do this with little or no shock.
> 
> Here is a picture of the driveway that I am told we CANNOT use. The tree is right off the left corner of nieghbors garage. There is def room under the tree but there is also a rather large lilac that you cant see and Iam sure they dont want trashed. But remember..atleast for me..free fall is a no go because I am to close to garage. I personally wont do it.


 1. No place to set a crane except HO's yard. 2. The grey house is too tall. 3. N'br's driveway cannot be used even though the solution could work there. Keep thinkin' yall!


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 6, 2011)

Not my problem. If it was, I would have figured it out.
Jeff


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## TreeAce (Mar 6, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Not my problem. If it was, I would have figured it out.
> Jeff


 
You can do better than that Jeff:msp_smile:. It isnt my problem ethier cuz I dont have the job. If I get it then its my baby and I will figure it out. Safely. Believe that.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 6, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> You can do better than that Jeff:msp_smile:. It isnt my problem ethier cuz I dont have the job. If I get it then its my baby and I will figure it out. Safely. Believe that.



Yeah, you are right. I am ornery today! 
Jeff


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 6, 2011)

Jeff after the Metamucil kicked in.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 6, 2011)

Ouch!


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## newbym (Mar 6, 2011)

*Hard to say just from pics*

I hate these kinds of removals. Without seeing it in person, I'd have to say be don't climb above that damage. If, in your opinion you can stabilize the stem with some guy lines, I would still toss a line up high so I could top-rope small pieces out without a shock load. You'd probably see me doing a bunch of pole saw work to lighten the load and for positioning my lowering line. 
Could you tip tie some of the lower limbs then lift them? I would run the lines back against the lean for any pulling/lowering, that's for sure. 
Don't let cheap customer make you take risks. No money is worth being seriously injured or worse, dieing.

On another note, don't listen to any of these guys saying that the lead is as sturdy as it was before the other lead ripped off. The other lead was attached and contributing to the overall structure of the tree. You have lost the strong cylinder shape and now have a flat surface where it is more likely to experience major failure.
Prove it to yourself: find a large branch with a co-dominant style secondary branch coming off. Give it a good flex below the union and note how much it resists. Now rip the co-dom back replicating the tree failure. Once it's lost the co-dom, flex it in the same spot and notice how much easier it is to bend.


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## tree md (Mar 7, 2011)

It's really hard for me to judge by pics... Yes, I have climbed and rigged trees like that... To be honest I have never walked away from a split out like that, I have always found a way to do the ones I have been presented with. I have tied into remote trees to do a couple of them. I hate to tell someone to do something on here when I haven't seen it in person to evaluate. I have always been a good judge of what will hold me and what I can rig from but you usually only get one chance to make a mistake like that. If you don't think it will support you then by all means find another way to do it or walk.


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## TreeAce (Apr 1, 2011)

*Drive by*

I finally had time to do a drive by on this tree. It is still standing. Looked like someone cut what was already on the ground and stuck in other tree. It was STILL THERE but cut up alittle. I assume it was taken off of the fence so the fence could be fixed. I never heard anything from Insurance company or HO.


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## JNGWC&Tree (Apr 2, 2011)

Disclaimer: From the photos I can't see what you see.

I'd say yes I'd climb if everything is crash and burn to the ground. Would consider bore cutting when taking the top. Would be extra careful for pealing and sharp edges on cambium that would lacerate a rope or lanyard. If rigging.....well, don't think I would while attached to the tree myself.

Just my first instinct.


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## woodmans (Apr 2, 2011)

*Find out if it will hold you.*

One way to safely find out if it will hold you is to get a rope up where you want to tie in ( throw weight, ladder and polesaw?) and then put your weight on the rope while you are on the ground. If it supports you on the ground, it will support you in the air.
Rob


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 3, 2011)

woodmans said:


> One way to safely find out if it will hold you is to get a rope up where you want to tie in ( throw weight, ladder and polesaw?) and then put your weight on the rope while you are on the ground. If it supports you on the ground, it will support you in the air.
> Rob


 
With a severely altered tree you do not want to immediately go to a "bounce test". What do you do if it does crack at the defect? The best method is to put the throw-line in and gently put pressure on to observe where the moment of bend is. It is only when the bending moment is in the defect area that I become very concerned.


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## prentice110 (Apr 3, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> With a severely altered tree you do not want to immediately go to a "bounce test". What do you do if it does crack at the defect? The best method is to put the throw-line in and gently put pressure on to observe where the moment of bend is. It is only when the bending moment is in the defect area that I become very concerned.


 
Can you imagine what the HO and the neighbors would say about you if they saw you test it by 'bouncing', and it came down? Had a large severely storm damaged Black Cherry in an impossible spot to crane or lift/bucket access. Went up it about 60+ feet, tied in and lost my stones. Came down and did some test pulls. It was cracking and popping with every pull. At the time I really thought it was going to snap. Actually walked away. Gotta call from the HOA. The resident was home and saw us and heard me blabbin' about how the thing was ready to come down. We caught hell , and we werent about to lose a 15k contract in the middle of January over 1 tree, so I had to grow a pair and hit it again. Told the roper to burn the first shot all the way down. After the first shot, I saw what the thing could hold and lost all fear and kicked the #### out of it. But before that first rope shot, to this day, I have never been so scared in my life.


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## woodmans (Apr 4, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> With a severely altered tree you do not want to immediately go to a "bounce test". What do you do if it does crack at the defect? The best method is to put the throw-line in and gently put pressure on to observe where the moment of bend is. It is only when the bending moment is in the defect area that I become very concerned.


 
Good to call it a bounce test. I'm not saying pull the tree down but the tree would give you warning if the "bounce" was going to break it. I've been at it over 40 years and haven't had one I couldn't do. That's not to say there isn't an impossible job, but I have done this kind of work 40 years and have never lost a days work due to an on the job injury and never had a claim on my insurance. I like to do what I know is going to work. Safety is paramount. I hear you about moment of bend. I'd also listen real close. I don't want to get hurt and I sure don't want anyone else to get hurt. I hope this site is about helping one another.

Rob


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## 056 kid (Apr 4, 2011)

You guys are a bunch of yo yos. That little maple is like 25 feet high.


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## tree MDS (Apr 4, 2011)

056 kid said:


> You guys are a bunch of yo yos. That little maple is like 25 feet high.



Sounds good.

Can we strap 15 feet of maple to you and the huck ya off a couple stories then?? Maybe see if we can get you to land on a bird feeder or some fencing perhaps.. maybe a concrete step? lol.


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## 056 kid (Apr 4, 2011)

Couldn't be worse than getting thrown 10 feet into the air and KOed by a sprung hickory. Even though I went 10 feet up, I fell close to 20, landing on a skid road. After some water and letting the vision return it was back to work as usual.
So go climb that little thing, maple is strong wood, if it stood tall with a few hundred lbs of ice on it, it will hold long enough to get up there and lop off a branch or two. The wood is probably not even frozen now so you have even more strength. . .


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## tree MDS (Apr 4, 2011)

056 kid said:


> Couldn't be worse than getting thrown 10 feet into the air and KOed by a sprung hickory. Even though I went 10 feet up, I fell close to 20, landing on a skid road. After some water and letting the vision return it was back to work as usual.
> So go climb that little thing, maple is strong wood, if it stood tall with a few hundred lbs of ice on it, it will hold long enough to get up there and lop off a branch or two. The wood is probably not even frozen now so you have even more strength. . .


 
Well, nobody ever accused loggers of being the most intelligent thing in the woods!


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## 056 kid (Apr 4, 2011)

Yea, when you deal with hundreds of trees every day, eventually one or two will get one over on you.


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

056 kid said:


> Yea, when you deal with hundreds of trees every day, eventually one or two will get one over on you.


 
Regardless, with an attitude like you've displayed in your last 3 posts, theres a reason it happened to you. Look up reckless and careless in the dictionary, be mindfull and notice that they are 2 very differnt meanings. I'll let you decide wich you are.


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## 056 kid (Apr 4, 2011)

Resident jackass huh? Are you sure you aren't part K9? with such an ability to judge ones character, 3 posts and you have got me pegged! There are situations where you have no choice but to put yourself in immediate danger, If I failed every time I was confronted with a dangerous situation, I would have been dead long ago. So how bout you shut your smart ace mouth until you have walked the walk for alittle. 

Go tell the old timers in the logging forum what you told me None of them escaped injury throughout their careers, and they have likely forgotten what you haven't learned yet.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Regardless, with an attitude like you've displayed in your last 3 posts, theres a reason it happened to you. Look up reckless and careless in the dictionary, be mindfull and notice that they are 2 very differnt meanings. I'll let you decide wich you are.


 
There is a fine line between competence and over confidence.



> Gotta call from the HOA. The resident was home and saw us and heard me blabbin' about how the thing was ready to come down.



been there, I have a policy of disussing things in a normal voice. I also hate it when the groundy bellows "you hit the (fill in the blank) on that last one!" yeah, but it did not do anything, and now the neighborhood knows......



> I've been at it over 40 years and haven't had one I couldn't do. That's not to say there isn't an impossible job,



Same here, but I have come across many where I was not willing to do the work with the resources presented, or the decision maker was not willing to go with my bid. I might bid it for a scaffold if that is what I want to do the job, more likely then not, they will find some sucker who likes big Stihl saws willing to climb it for nothing.  If I get someone P/O'd because i will not climb something, then c'est la vie.

I have had more then a few fall down with a throw-line pull.



> But before that first rope shot, to this day, I have never been so scared in my life.



We've all been there before, if we've had some time doing this, which is why I will pick and choose what I will climb. My size also has something to do with it. Guy can get farther up a skinny top then I can, even if he's got 25 years on me.


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## TreeAce (Apr 4, 2011)

LOL...this thread has been a trip. I just wanted to give an update, not get anyone fired up.....again..:msp_wink:


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## fishercat (Apr 4, 2011)

*I'd climb it.*

I'd put a heavy duty ratchet strap around the trunk below the break .

I would NOT rig off it. If you can't pull it over or bomb it I would suggest a bucket .


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

056 kid said:


> Resident jackass huh? Are you sure you aren't part K9? with such an ability to judge ones character, 3 posts and you have got me pegged! There are situations where you have no choice but to put yourself in immediate danger, If I failed every time I was confronted with a dangerous situation, I would have been dead long ago. So how bout you shut your smart ace mouth until you have walked the walk for alittle.
> 
> Go tell the old timers in the logging forum what you told me None of them escaped injury throughout their careers, and they have likely forgotten what you haven't learned yet.


 
Tell me, whats the difference between logging and commercial land clearing? Ive wipped out a few hundred acres in my day, and Im not old homes. Also, to the best of my knowlage, Im the only one in my hood that'll drop what others would climb/bucket for several hours. Im not sayin' leveling a forest isnt hard, Im saying Im doing the same thing, only next to high voltage power lines, busy roads and highways, and between million $ homes. Ive had my fair share of close calls, but Ive never barber chaired myself over a distance, or whatever happened to you. I just dont like the way you completely ignored what the man said about not being able to drop anything, and then talking smak about almost killing yourself like its no big deal. Take a pill, have some more moonshine, and go away. Geez, your only 23. Now I get the cockyness. You'll grow out of it jr, hopefully before it gets you killed.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 4, 2011)

Just to be fair, no barber chair was mentioned. Logger's need to watch for spring pole's! Complacency and production. What a brew!
Jeff :msp_smile:


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Just to be fair, no barber chair was mentioned. Logger's need to watch for spring pole's! Complacency and production. What a brew!
> Jeff :msp_smile:


 
By spring pole, I assume you mean a blow down under pressure or some thing to that affect?


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## TreeAce (Apr 4, 2011)

*Hey prentice110...*

A bunch of old junk in perfect working order. HA!!!! Some new stuff still in the box. --- What have we done to the Earth? What have we done to our fair sister? Raveged and plundered and ripped her and bit her. Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn and, tied her with fences and, DRAGGED HER DOWN!!!!

Not to derail ur conversation with 056guy but I was curious ....is this Jim Morrison?


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> By spring pole, I assume you mean a blow down under pressure or some thing to that affect?


 
Spring pole.
Jeff :msp_smile:


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> A bunch of old junk in perfect working order. HA!!!! Some new stuff still in the box. --- What have we done to the Earth? What have we done to our fair sister? Raveged and plundered and ripped her and bit her. Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn and, tied her with fences and, DRAGGED HER DOWN!!!!
> 
> Not to derail ur conversation with 056guy but I was curious ....is this Jim Morrison?


 
Its "the scream of the butterfly" poem section in the middle of 'when the musics over'. I was obsessed with the doors when I was younger. Kinda ironic cuz I kinda look like Jim, only better!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Spring pole.
> Jeff :msp_smile:


 
I like to bore cut those with an extra long bar while leaning as far away as I can without falling over.


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## TreeAce (Apr 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Its "the scream of the butterfly" poem section in the middle of 'when the musics over'. I was obsessed with the doors when I was younger. Kinda ironic cuz I kinda look like Jim, only better!:hmm3grin2orange:


 
I aways liked the Doors although never a HUGE fan. But I have pondered Morrisons poetry over a camp fire more than once! I dont recall ever hearing that before but I was pretty sure it was Jim Morrisons work.


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

View attachment 178854
Thats for you Ace


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## Treepedo (Apr 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Its "the scream of the butterfly" poem section in the middle of 'when the musics over'. I was obsessed with the doors when I was younger. Kinda ironic cuz I kinda look like Jim, only better!:hmm3grin2orange:


 
I think Jim would have monkey climbed up to 3" dia, then snapping it off sending it ash over tea kettle right into the chipper. Peace Frog:msp_thumbup:

I would climb up to the tear out and then cut and drop with a pole saw then work it once the alot of the weight is off.

aaaaaalmost looks like you could peel it to the ground like a banana or low enough to pole saw most of it. Hard to tell.


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## TreeAce (Apr 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> View attachment 178854
> Thats for you Ace


 
WHOAA, dude...you really do look like Jim Morrison!


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## prentice110 (Apr 4, 2011)

Do you have any idea how many times Ive heard that?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 4, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> You'll grow out of it jr, hopefully before it gets you killed.



There's old (fill in the blank)
and there's bold (fill in the blank)
But there are no
old, bold (fill in the blank)


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## murphy4trees (Apr 4, 2011)

Based on the pics and the wood looking in sound condition and a closer inspection showing no cracks or signs of compression on the lean side, I would climb that tree everyday... No problem.. they are plenty strong.. held up in the wind.. I'd even climb and rig of it, just keep the cuts small until some good weight comes out of the top...

I think its a lot strionger that it looks, and really hasn't lost much strength due to the split.. the weakest point is about the same stregth as the pre-split lead had, just above the crotch. Only thing that makes it a little more hairy is the additional leverage, from the weak spot now being a few feet lower than the area just above the BU...

And evern if I was concerned, a tree like that can be back guyed directly against the lean from the ground.. With that, I'd rig neearly as heavy as usual... ON THE RECORD!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 4, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> WHOAA, dude...you really do look like Jim Morrison!


 
His liver looks like Jim Morrison...just sayin'...


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 4, 2011)

murphy4trees said:


> And evern if I was concerned, a tree like that can be back guyed directly against the lean from the ground.. With that, I'd rig neearly as heavy as usual... ON THE RECORD!


 
But he's not really asking if you'd climb it, but what would assure you that it's good to go.

Anyone could type in that they'd go up to above the defect, cut a notch, place a wedge and pull it backwards with a truck rope.


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## 056 kid (Apr 5, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Tell me, whats the difference between logging and commercial land clearing? Ive wipped out a few hundred acres in my day, and Im not old homes. Also, to the best of my knowlage, Im the only one in my hood that'll drop what others would climb/bucket for several hours. Im not sayin' leveling a forest isnt hard, Im saying Im doing the same thing, only next to high voltage power lines, busy roads and highways, and between million $ homes. Ive had my fair share of close calls, but Ive never barber chaired myself over a distance, or whatever happened to you. I just dont like the way you completely ignored what the man said about not being able to drop anything, and then talking smak about almost killing yourself like its no big deal. Take a pill, have some more moonshine, and go away. Geez, your only 23. Now I get the cockyness. You'll grow out of it jr, hopefully before it gets you killed.


 
The difference is I fall all the good stuff that is worth lots of $$ & you cut the brush that I stomped 10 years ago, that's my take on it anyways. . . .

You might as well preach to the quire dude cause I don't care to hear any of the "I'm not a logger but I damn sure know what it's like" BS. I chose to do the job I do cause I love the work, not so I can make stories. . . Power lines, gas lines, grave yards, roads, phone boxes, cars, sheds, houses, fences, creeks, leave trees. I have seen all that chit too Jack. 

& The accident I described earlier had nothing to do with barber chair. . .

How many of these do you cut when you are clearing land Jr.? ?


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## prentice110 (Apr 5, 2011)

Back in 03' we turned an Oak forest into an 18 hole golf course, so there were probly only a few hundred or couple thousand Oaks that came out of there. Brush you stompped ten years ago? Thats pretty funny. 110ft lightning struck Cottonwoods rotted to the hilt, Silver maples rotted so bad you cant figure out how there standing, you have to plunge cut cuz theres not enough good wood to notch. I live in what was one of the top three fastest growing counties in the country for over 10 years before the economy crashed. All we ever did before 08' was knock down residential monsters or clear land, and Im not talking brush JR! Thats what a brushcat is for. You guys got your popcorn ready yet? Hey JPS, trust me, after hundreds of years of evolution, us Polocks have developed cast iron livers. Its the Native Americans and Irish that have only been drinking for a couple hundred years that need to be carefull. They cant process it like we can. Pops started @7, died @78. Liver was flawless till the end.


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## prentice110 (Apr 5, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> There's old (fill in the blank)
> and there's bold (fill in the blank)
> But there are no
> old, bold (fill in the blank)


 
Have you been hanging out with the Shumachers?


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## TreeAce (Apr 5, 2011)

I have an friend who also works for me whos liver is shot. Sirosis. He was just put on a doner list. He is 56. He quit drinking a year ago but the damage is done. I have noticed him getting winded all to easy dragging brush so I did alittle research. It appears that he cant get enough oxygen into his blood. It is my understanding he will be dead within two years without a donor. He is Italian....


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## urbanarborist (Apr 5, 2011)

dudes scared dont go past v dont rig past v or

let it "run"

if you must rig it little fraction


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## 056 kid (Apr 5, 2011)

Back in 03 huh, what happend to the oaks?


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## murphy4trees (Apr 5, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> But he's not really asking if you'd climb it, but what would assure you that it's good to go.
> 
> Anyone could type in that they'd go up to above the defect, cut a notch, place a wedge and pull it backwards with a truck rope.


 
Really,
I didn't read the whole thread.. still think since the title is "would you climb this" that is what he is asking.. The point is that failure was casued by weakness at the co-dom inclusion.. that does not effect the integrity of the wood on the standing side.. SO the remaining wood just below the rip is not inherently unstable.. Abscent other signs of fatigue, such as compreession cracks, splits or decay, the wood just below the rip is not weaker than the wood above the rip. They are both just about as beefy, only issue is the additional lvereage on the lower portion of wood... SO it may look unsafe to the lay observer, but I still would climb it without much hesitation.. Might even get scared a little, but that is just the body doing its thing. In this case I trust the mind over the body.. 

Then when he said it stood through a couple storms.. well that makes it completely clear.. If I was going to take the top out, I woudl climb and treat it no different than any heavy backleaner. I'll often set up the notch and back cut, then come down and get out of the DZ for the drop. Gotta work with people you can trust your life to though...


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## Slvrmple72 (Apr 5, 2011)

I have a 4x4 post that is nicknamed "Insurance" that I ratchet strap to splits like that to stiffen em up a bit. 

Any updates on that one yet Doug? I can come up and climb it for you but its gonna cost you lunch:hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree MDS (Apr 5, 2011)

Slvrmple72 said:


> I have a 4x4 post that is nicknamed "Insurance" that I ratchet strap to splits like that to stiffen em up a bit.
> 
> Any updates on that one yet Doug? I can come up and climb it for you but its gonna cost you lunch:hmm3grin2orange:


 
Now you're talking!

I was kinda thinking the same thing in the back of my mind.

And then with that bit of added safety and reassurance out of the way, time to get up there and whip the piss outta that spindly little piece once and for all!


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## ShermanC (Apr 5, 2011)

*great photos!*



056 kid said:


> Back in 03 huh, what happend to the oaks?


 Great photos, rough trees, smart work, hard work and thanks for sharing.


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## TreEmergencyB (Apr 5, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> There's old (fill in the blank)
> and there's bold (fill in the blank)
> But there are no
> old, bold (fill in the blank)


 
My mentor use to always say that to me,
Theres old tree guys and bold tree guys, but There is no old bold tree guys.

Words of wisdom i say hes 50 still climbing everyday and doesnt own a bucket truck or a crane.


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## TreeAce (Apr 5, 2011)

Slvrmple72 said:


> I have a 4x4 post that is nicknamed "Insurance" that I ratchet strap to splits like that to stiffen em up a bit.
> 
> Any updates on that one yet Doug? I can come up and climb it for you but its gonna cost you lunch:hmm3grin2orange:


 
Ya know...thats really not that bad of an idea. And the post thing is ok to  . I could call HO and tell her I know a guy who will put her on ground for an xtra value meal? (super size obv). I havent heard anything at all. Truth is I am to busy to care. Ya know what ...I have HO daughters email. I think I will drop her a note and see if I can see whats up, maybe I can get alittle info.


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## TreeAce (Apr 5, 2011)

urbanarborist said:


> dudes scared dont go past v dont rig past v or
> 
> let it "run"
> 
> if you must rig it little fraction


 
Could you elaborate just a little?


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## prentice110 (Apr 6, 2011)

056 kid said:


> Back in 03 huh, what happend to the oaks?


 
Burned a lot on site to save hauling costs. Used to sell 1-2k face cords of firewood a year. Sold some to the log mill. Whatever was too big or crappy went thru Mr. Tubgrinder. Used to sell THOUSANDS of yards of mulch a year to! That was the job that would not end, I mean that in a good way


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## 056 kid (Apr 6, 2011)

Whats wrong jackass? don't wanna argue anymore? 
How much does a yard of mulch whey? Isn't that more of a concrete term?? Pulp loads usually go 83,000. Usually 2 a day along with logs. .


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## prentice110 (Apr 6, 2011)

You so silly JR. Its relevent to what part of the country your in. Dont sell to many logs up here, you spend more in trucking than you get for the wood. Blow a tire and you lose the price of the load. I could give a flyin flip what mulch weighs a yard. Kinda changes if it rains, dont it dumbass? We sell by the yard, not volume. Have some more jack, crank the skynyrnd, fall on your 056, and piss off. (Resident Jackass means that arguing with me is like wrestling with a pig. Sooner or later you have to realize that the pig is having fun!:msp_w00t Now lets take this elsewhere, This is Aces thread and we've hijacked it with nonsense.


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## Slvrmple72 (Apr 6, 2011)

Well, it's raining and this is entertaining! 

opcorn:


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## 056 kid (Apr 6, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> You so silly JR. Its relevent to what part of the country your in. Dont sell to many logs up here, you spend more in trucking than you get for the wood. Blow a tire and you lose the price of the load. I could give a flyin flip what mulch weighs a yard. Kinda changes if it rains, dont it dumbass? We sell by the yard, not volume. Have some more jack, crank the skynyrnd, fall on your 056, and piss off. (Resident Jackass means that arguing with me is like wrestling with a pig. Sooner or later you have to realize that the pig is having fun!:msp_w00t Now lets take this elsewhere, This is Aces thread and we've hijacked it with nonsense.


 
Oh brush clearer, the reason I asked how much a yard of mulch weighs is because it is a stupid way to brag about how much you did haha.

it may be fun for you, but you are boring me now so I'm finished, Go yard some mulch, #####:msp_rolleyes:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 6, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Now lets take this elsewhere, This is Aces thread and we've hijacked it with nonsense.


 
Darn, and i already reported it  too many posts to red to the bottom before I hit the button. To many involved to take a slap at each.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 6, 2011)

prentice110 said:


> Irish that have only been drinking for a couple hundred years that need to be carefull.



Whiskey comes from the Gaelic uisgae (life water), they've been distilling for a few thousand probably  My take on why it seems they can't handle it is from the centuries of Brittanic occupation, they killed off most of the gene pool that did not sit in the corner an go all maudlin.

FWIW

I have to agree with you on the nature of mill sales in the midwest. I've worked in several Appalachian states and it is much easier to sell a short load there.

We had a full load of nice looking logs a year or two ago and they downgraded more the half. Said we could leave them for firewood or load them up ourselves. Barely paid for the fuel to get there


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## Customcuts (Mar 21, 2012)

*yes I would climb*



TreeAce said:


> Ice storm victim. Cant really get any equipment close enough because of a narrow as heck driveway and a neighbor who doesnt want anything or anyone on there driveway. It would be a simple job, just a go up an butt tie most of them. Just not enough room to just let em drop. Plus I am afraid one could go brush first and bounce back into neighbors garage. Anyway, sticking to my question....based on these photos...think its safe? The tree has been like this for a week and we had rather strong winds about four nights ago. And also a pounding of a thunder storm last night ....and its still up. I worry alittle about "the hair that broke the camels back" on this one. There are no trees close enough or tall enough to tie in to. View attachment 174168
> View attachment 174169
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> View attachment 174171



Just look at it as if u are tying into a 4 inch limb, normally it would be no problem right. However now the tree has less weight on it so it should be good. I would bee nervous about rigging tho. If,u do just be sure and pre-tension lines as much as possible to prevent shock load., best of luck dude


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## Customcuts (Mar 22, 2012)

*did u climb?*

Did u ever get that job,? If so do u have any pics of u in it? Hope it all went well if u did climb...


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## flushcut (Mar 22, 2012)

It's kinda nice reading P110s posts again in old threads. That guy was a character for sure.  Matt


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## TreeAce (Mar 22, 2012)

I was in the area of that tree a month or so ago and took a detour to go past. It was still standing.


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## ShermanC (Mar 24, 2012)

*Thanks for revisiting this site.*



TreeAce said:


> I was in the area of that tree a month or so ago and took a detour to go past. It was still standing.


I followed this case all the way through last year. My curiosity would not go cold so I am glad you followed up on it. It will be interesting to flow it even more to see what will happen if anything.

I try to follow up on jobs I estimate but don't get. More often than not the customer decides to let the tree sit and "nuttin' homey" happens.

Stay safe and good luck!
Sherm


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## alonfn4 (Mar 31, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> Well , like I said ...neighbor not to friendly and there driveway would make it simple. Piece it out would be a no brainer but they said NO WAY is ANYONE driving a big truck on our driveway. I guess its just "not there problem". The HO drive is very narrow. Even if you squeeze a bucket up drive I dont think it would reach. In fact ....I know it wont. Maybe a smaller crane....a spyder "type" lift would sure the heck solve the problem....It is an insurance job and I know they wanted HO to get a few bids so who knows....I may need to bid it high enough to rent a small lift. If I get it...cool...if not....still cool ...I think someone around here will climb it, just not sure it should be me. But it is very tempting. I really want opions from other skilled climbers who can simply give advice without $$$$$ clouding there judgement. I am smart enough to know this COULD happen to me so....I figure if your judgement is clouded then u wouldnt know it...or it wouldnt be clouded...Know what I mean? LOL


 

when the neighbor is an ####### I give them a card and tell them to call me when it laying on top of there Car, House, lawn, and or child and I will drive my tuck on there drive way when it happens to fall quite simple 

these people are @#[email protected] Dumb Leave the tree and let these geniuses figure it out themselves...:angry2:


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