# Fertilizer selection for an old pin oak?



## Urbicide

What type of fertilizer would you suggest for a pin oak that is probably over 100 years old? It is a beautiful tree that can use a little boost. 

Thank you.


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## Urban Forester

I would do a soil test first to determine PH and organic matter content. NPK fertilizer can get "locked up" in high PH just like iron in certain situations. Off-hand I'd recommend a 3-1-2 ratio of NPK @ no more than 1 or 2 lbs N per 1,000 sq. ft. No sense pounding the "old girl" and causing surge growth that can't be supported by a 100 year old root system. I would consider also using a bio-stimulant like Essential 1-0-1 (Growth Products) or Roots 2 (Roots Inc.) mixed in w/the NPK to help "feed" soil organisms that convert the N to usable nitrites (we wouldn't want to "wear" them out!!!)
P.S. I almost forgot, you also would want a pretty hefty % of Slow release N in that package, around 50%, quick release and 100 years old are mutually exclusive...


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## S Mc

Urban Forester was on the right track with his initial sentence: test first.

Why do you think this tree needs "a boost"? What are the symptoms?

You say it is a beautiful tree, please do not start experimenting with it. A 100 year old tree is slowing down its growth rate, to actively stimulate it beyond its natural performance level risks weakening it. 

Pin oaks, _Quercus palustris_, are very prone to iron chlorosis. What are its environmental circumstances? In a lawn area? or a mulched bed? If not, then one of the best things you could do is to provide this tree with a mulch ring out to its drip line. The decomposition of the organic material will stabilize and enrich your soil, providing nutrients to all the microbial organisms that are so important in the soil to a tree's well being.

Sylvia


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## tomtrees58

5 #10#5 thats good tom trees


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## ATH

S Mc said:


> Urban Forester was on the right track with his initial sentence: test first.



And another vote for that. I use Spectrum Analytic in Washington Courthouse. I think it is about $10 for each test. I have also heard good things about CLC labs in Columbus area.

Here is some more info about soil testing from OSU Extension.


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## NYCHA FORESTER

Urban Forester said:


> I would do a soil test first to determine PH and organic matter content. NPK fertilizer can get "locked up" in high PH just like iron in certain situations. Off-hand I'd recommend a 3-1-2 ratio of NPK @ no more than 1 or 2 lbs N per 1,000 sq. ft. *No sense pounding the "old girl"* and causing surge growth that can't be supported by a 100 year old root system. I would consider also using a bio-stimulant like Essential 1-0-1 (Growth Products) or Roots 2 (Roots Inc.) mixed in w/the NPK to help "feed" soil organisms that convert the N to usable nitrites (we wouldn't want to "wear" them out!!!)
> P.S. I almost forgot, you also would want a pretty hefty % of Slow release N in that package, around 50%, quick release and 100 years old are mutually exclusive...




+1 

I've always had good results with Essential.


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## Urbicide

S Mc said:


> Urban Forester was on the right track with his initial sentence: test first.
> 
> Why do you think this tree needs "a boost"? What are the symptoms?
> 
> You say it is a beautiful tree, please do not start experimenting with it. A 100 year old tree is slowing down its growth rate, to actively stimulate it beyond its natural performance level risks weakening it.
> 
> Pin oaks, _Quercus palustris_, are very prone to iron chlorosis. What are its environmental circumstances? In a lawn area? or a mulched bed? If not, then one of the best things you could do is to provide this tree with a mulch ring out to its drip line. The decomposition of the organic material will stabilize and enrich your soil, providing nutrients to all the microbial organisms that are so important in the soil to a tree's well being.
> 
> Sylvia



This tree is located in a small front yard. The grass is not very thick. The garages are located under the houses here so you have descending driveways on two sides. The power lines are located on my side of the street so every couple of years it gets "line clearance" work done to it. The attitude and professionalism of these crews varies every time they come through. I have learned not to just let them have their way with "the old girl". They are working for Duke Power, not the home owners. I talk with the foreman first to voice my concerns and, if possible, I will watch them work. I came home one year and there was a huge notch cut into the canopy. It looked like they had pruned it by flying one of those helicopters with the powered saws hanging from it. Last week they came down the street doing clearance work. I asked the guys, after voicing my concerns, if they could possibly cut out some of the dead wood that was up high in the canopy. (Never hurts to ask).They had set up 2 bucket trucks and they did cut a little of the dead out. The one guy who seemed to be in charge told me that he thought the tree was on its way out. This same guy also told me it would be less stressful on the tree to leave the dead wood in it. I kind of felt that he would rather cut the tree down rather than attempt to correct any environmental issues that might be affecting this tree. I have noticed that dead branches usually take a few years before they fail on this tree. There are not many big old trees like this one on the street. It is like an old friend to me and I want to try to keep it around. 

As per ATH's recommendation, I did call Spectrum Analytic in Washington Courthouse OH. I spoke with Bill, who spent 40 minutes on the phone going over quite a bit of information with me. They are going to get my business.

You all have given me good advice and I wish to thank you all for answering.  First step is a soil analysis.

Vince


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## Urban Forester

Urbicide said:


> The one guy who seemed to be in charge told me that he thought the tree was on its way out. This same guy also told me it would be less stressful on the tree to leave the dead wood in it. I kind of felt that he would rather cut the tree down rather than attempt to correct any environmental issues that might be affecting this tree... ...It is like an old friend to me and I want to try to keep it around...



That pretty much tells you the level of Arborist skills the average line crew has. "Leave deadwood in a tree"... he's smokin' better stuff than I got...  This world would be a better place if more people thought of 100 year old trees as "friends". :agree2:


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## RCR 3 EVER

Not all power companies are bad or maybe the city forced them to do this long ago. But if you drove along one of our main streets in our city you would have seen a line of utility poles suddenly rise to double the height in one section and then drop down to a normal height. They decided a Chinkapin Oak tree needed to be saved so the lines went over the top. The tree has since died and it looked a bit wierd with the lines all of a sudden rising. They have since replaced those super tall poles.
I am also proactive with my huge Chinkapin Oak and power lines, I hire the tree service in the winter to trim the tree of enough branches to satisfy the utility crews. Since they work with Power lines Co. they know what I can get away with. 

My biggest worry is the gypsy moths attacking it and surrounding trees.


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## Urban Forester

RCR 3 EVER said:


> Not all power companies are bad
> .



It's not the power Co.'s I have a problem with. It's the techniques used by the line clearing crews. I realize that they are caught between a "rock and a hard place". People don't like being w/o power. In most cases the trees planted under lines are the wrong tree in the wrong place. But I will never understand a pruning technique that causes the tree to surge growth to replace what was taken out creating horrible branch attachment, included bark and "V" shaped trees that have no structure OR value left. If it's that bad, just take it down. The "witch-brooming" that this pruning causes actually creates MORE hazard within 3 or 4 years. I've seen that Oak you were talking about, I work in Troy and have alot of clients in R.H.


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## RCR 3 EVER

In my brother's former neighborhood in Clawson a "pruner" came through and hacked all the trees anywhere near a power line. The only way some of the trees would have hit a line was if the tree was dropped from the base without any trimming first. 

They did such a terrible job the city got into it primarily because it was city easement trees that were trimmed, between sidewalk and street. Nearly every tree was topped except for a few stubs left on the trunk.:jawdrop:
You are right though, it is the work crews that do not care what they trim nor how they do it.


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## Upidstay

I'd go with a good organic deep root injection product. They won;t get bound up in a poor or off pH soil, and will actually help the situation. Plant health care has a really nice line of products. I've had good luck with Bolstr liquid. A friend of mine buys a compost tea from an outfit out of Norwalk CT he raves about. Look for something with a micorhizal and other beneficial fungi profile. They really work.


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