# Illegal BAR ????



## russ61 (Dec 7, 2007)

Just took the 026 with the bow bar to get a chain made up at my Stihl dealer.Was told it was an illegal bar and he couldn't touch it.Liability .:censored: So I said ok I need a sprocket small spline for .375 and about 90DL of .375 chain.He said no .375 chain available just .325 , 3/8 and .404!I explained to him that .375 is 3/8.And I needed presets and tie links for it,nope can't sell chain parts only made up chain.And he didn't make up chain.At that point I gave up!Hard to buy local when they're that lawyerphobic.He even took my name and phone number ,I've bought from him before, even saws,so I really didn't care!Whats he going to do , call the chainsaw police?So after I'm through ranting ordering from Baileys,it'll be cheaper anyway!Don't reckon it would be a federal offense being across state lines and all?Unbelievable!!


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## Cut4fun (Dec 7, 2007)

Got a good laugh at your story , but that was down right funny. 

*CHAINSAW POLICE*
on patrol in your area next?.

I hear that air bags kill too (yes sometimes even save you) and come with a warning stickers in the vehicles that say this air bag if deployed may injury or KILL you. Maybe we can't buy parts for are dangerous cars down the road either. LMAO on this one.


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## mattinky (Dec 7, 2007)

Illeagal ???? LOL, You need to find another dealer. Matt


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## Erick (Dec 7, 2007)

russ61 said:


> Just took the 026 with the bow bar to get a chain made up at my Stihl dealer.Was told it was an illegal bar and he couldn't touch it.Liability .:censored: So I said ok I need a sprocket small spline for .375 and about 90DL of .375 chain.He said no .375 chain available just .325 , 3/8 and .404!I explained to him that .375 is 3/8.And I needed presets and tie links for it,nope can't sell chain parts only made up chain.And he didn't make up chain.At that point I gave up!Hard to buy local when they're that lawyerphobic.He even took my name and phone number ,I've bought from him before, even saws,so I really didn't care!Whats he going to do , call the chainsaw police?So after I'm through ranting ordering from Baileys,it'll be cheaper anyway!Don't reckon it would be a federal offense being across state lines and all?Unbelievable!!




You silly homeowner, just listen to him he's a dealer and obviously knows more about this stuff than you do.   

Thats kinda like going to the auto parts store and them telling you they can't sell you a quart of oil cause your car doesn't have a muffler on it.


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## Al Smith (Dec 7, 2007)

Find another dealer.All Stihl dealers are not butt holes,just a few of them.


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## Mange (Dec 7, 2007)

It is not that easy. 
Jonny had a .375 chain years ago that make very strange noises when you put it on a new 3/8 rim. 
I would not run that......

There is also diffrent size drive link's on the diffrent ones.
If you have a 3/8 with these mega size drivers and tie straps it will not fit the rim/sprocket...


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## ShoerFast (Dec 7, 2007)

Had a local Stihl Tech (young kid,,,, the old man(dealer) is on the ball) tell me there are no gains to be had muf-modding an MS-361  

So I sez to da guy, I sez care to make a frendly wager on that? Told him I would race him new loop of chain on his shelf-stock 361 - new loop of chain on mine, i would keep the chain if I won,,,,, pay twice the price if I lose, and I would spot him a couple seconds on there 24" Doug-fir test log since my saw is broke-in. His comeback was that he didn't want to take my money, 'cause used saws don't run as hard as new saws' he sez.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 7, 2007)

The only illegal bars that I know of are those operating without liquor licenses.


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## SawTroll (Dec 7, 2007)

This is really funny!!!!!! :monkey:


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## vapnut257 (Dec 7, 2007)

This post would be funny except It's bad enough to have the gummit tell us every thing we can and can't do. Especially in a so called free country. It's even worse when a un official "business" person tells you it's against the law to sell you something when actually it's just against "their" law or policy, which don't mean nothing but a loss sale for them. If they are that worried about liability, they should not be in the business to start with. Who has the time or inclination to search out, locate or find a dealer that is reputable or one that will treat you like you might know what you want without being on some kind of know it all, chainsaw testosterone trip telling you what you can do and can't do? On another subject, I heard the gummit is being asked to pass legislation to restrict people's access to TABLE SALT! and it will probably happen.


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## carvinmark (Dec 7, 2007)

Two dealers within 10 miles of my house are the same way. I buy where it's not illegal, about 200 miles from home.


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## l2edneck (Dec 7, 2007)

HAHA.....

I had the parts guy at the marine store tell me the water pump i bought wouldnt work cuzz the boat motor spins the other way......(im usin a automotive one,only difference is i had to cap off the heater hose inlet.$110.00 vs $23.50)

Moron.


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## Wood Junkie (Dec 7, 2007)

If they are that worried about liability, they should not be in the business to start with.


No kidding, it's not like a H.P engine with steel blades on it is dangerous or anything......theres liability no matter what. Shoot, I'm a menace with a butter knife, and bleed just thinking about auto repairs.....


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## russ61 (Dec 7, 2007)

If they made the chain and it kicked back on me they say they would be liable.But what if I used a regular bar to cut up a body?Wouldn't they be on the same hook?Just to many lawyers in this world and too many people looking for a hand out.They said Stihl sent out certified letters informing the dealers if they worked on a bow saw they could lose their franchise.Just hard to believe where this world is heading.
Russ


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## 16:1mix (Dec 7, 2007)

russ61 said:


> Just took the 026 with the bow bar to get a chain made up at my Stihl dealer.Was told it was an illegal bar and he couldn't touch it.Liability .:censored: So I said ok I need a sprocket small spline for .375 and about 90DL of .375 chain.He said no .375 chain available just .325 , 3/8 and .404!I explained to him that .375 is 3/8.
> 
> Unbelievable!!



Dip$hit manager of the box farm store I work in said we could not sell an Oregon chain to a customer because the model "XYZ" saw that the customer had was not listed on the package. This is after I counted the drive links and measured the pitch and gauge to verify the new chain was an exact match to the worn out chain that the customer brought in. 

Policy.

All these idiot manager types know is the crock of $hit that the corporate offices pass down.

This and the abundance of trial hungry lawyers will be the downfall of commerce in this country!

<whew>

I'm better now!


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2007)

I checked with my local Stihl dealer. He runs a real saw shop, not just some hardware store that sells saws. He said a bow bar isn't an issue with him . If the bar is dangerously worn or a hazard beyond what you'd normally expect he'll advise the customer and go from there. He'll sell you any kind of chain you want.
Too bad theres so many dealers and so few real saw shops.


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## COLD_IRON (Dec 7, 2007)

After reading this, I am so glad we have local dealers who know what they're doing.


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2007)

I have a lot of experience with illegal "bars", but they all involve "animal rights"
and "immigration officials"......................................................

But all of the "gay" bars seem to be in Canada...........................


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## Wood Junkie (Dec 7, 2007)

Fish said:


> But all of the "gay" bars seem to be in Canada...........................



Ouch.....that ought to get a response....


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2007)

No, they do not have enough fur on the "ole" cahones to respond to "THAT"


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2007)

Sorry, it is "SWEEPS" week.............

I have to keep it up, to ensure my stipend...................


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2007)

Sorry, it is "SWEEPS" week.............

I have to keep it up, to ensure my stipend...................


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2007)

must i sat it again?


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2007)

say


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Fish!*

down boy... down.. stay.....STAY! good dog....


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## 2000ssm6 (Dec 7, 2007)

[email protected]


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## pbtree (Dec 8, 2007)

russ61 said:


> Just took the 026 with the bow bar to get a chain made up at my Stihl dealer.Was told it was an illegal bar and he couldn't touch it.Liability .:censored: So I said ok I need a sprocket small spline for .375 and about 90DL of .375 chain.He said no .375 chain available just .325 , 3/8 and .404!I explained to him that .375 is 3/8.And I needed presets and tie links for it,nope can't sell chain parts only made up chain.And he didn't make up chain.At that point I gave up!Hard to buy local when they're that lawyerphobic.He even took my name and phone number ,I've bought from him before, even saws,so I really didn't care!Whats he going to do , call the chainsaw police?So after I'm through ranting ordering from Baileys,it'll be cheaper anyway!Don't reckon it would be a federal offense being across state lines and all?Unbelievable!!



:monkey:  :monkey:


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## oldsaw (Dec 8, 2007)

16:1mix said:


> Dip$hit manager of the box farm store I work in said we could not sell an Oregon chain to a customer because the model "XYZ" saw that the customer had was not listed on the package. This is after I counted the drive links and measured the pitch and gauge to verify the new chain was an exact match to the worn out chain that the customer brought in.
> 
> Policy.
> 
> ...



I explained to my now closed hardware/farm supply store that was my "Husky" dealer for a while, about chain size and guage, and about safety chain. Also how to read the label on the chains to tell what size it was and how many links. I taught those kids about everything they knew about saws. That was after the one insisted that my 3120 was a 137 (didn't have it with me, didn't figure I had to prove it to him to get parts) and didn't want to order the air filter for it because I was "wrong".

Mark


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## Peacock (Dec 8, 2007)

Whereabouts in Indiana are you?

From Richmond myself. We have a decent number of Hoosiers in here...


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## russ61 (Dec 8, 2007)

I'm in a little town called Guilford,close to the gambling boats and the ski slopes.
Russ


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## Sprig (Dec 8, 2007)

Well this has been me laugh for the morning, do chainsaw police and dream police drink in the same bars? dunno. Yesterday my mom gave kid and me a few x-mas presents to take back home for under the tree and tells me that if the power goes out there is one we can open early with a wind-up radio and wind-up LED flashlight in it, cool says me, BUT she says, 'There is a warning lable on them that says "May cause cancer." !!! No chit, like this is covering yer butt overkill or what?!  'May cause blindness.' I could understand sheesh, could be somethin' lost in translation? dunno again...................:censored: 



Serge


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## jhellwig (Dec 8, 2007)

l2edneck said:


> HAHA.....
> 
> I had the parts guy at the marine store tell me the water pump i bought wouldnt work cuzz the boat motor spins the other way......(im usin a automotive one,only difference is i had to cap off the heater hose inlet.$110.00 vs $23.50)
> 
> Moron.



The motor doesn't go backwards but if your boat has v belts and the pump you bought was meant for serpentine belt then the pump will be going backwards.


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## flashy (Dec 8, 2007)

*Illegal bar?*

I saw a sign on a building. It said "Licker in front, poker in the rear".

Do you think that may have been an illegal bar?


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## sandman2234 (Apr 26, 2022)

We don't have a lot of saw shops around me, and the small engine/lawnmower shop I went into yesterday to get a piece of rope for a recoil starter pulled out a piece of tiny rope, and I asked him if he had anything bigger. He asked me saw make and model, to which kind of confused this 20 year old. Asked again and he pulled out some larger, told him I would take 10 feet and he said "how big is that saw"??
Then I asked if they carried 404 chain, and he wanted to know what size bar...and when I said bow, he immediately said they are illegal and they don't work on them!! I asked "illegal to own, or illegal for you to work on or illegal to sale"??
At that point, he called his dad, who told him that they didn't have 404 chain anyway, so what was the problem"?
I would still like to know where everyone gets this stuff!!
David from jax


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## camel2019 (Apr 26, 2022)

sandman2234 said:


> We don't have a lot of saw shops around me, and the small engine/lawnmower shop I went into yesterday to get a piece of rope for a recoil starter pulled out a piece of tiny rope, and I asked him if he had anything bigger. He asked me saw make and model, to which kind of confused this 20 year old. Asked again and he pulled out some larger, told him I would take 10 feet and he said "how big is that saw"??
> Then I asked if they carried 404 chain, and he wanted to know what size bar...and when I said bow, he immediately said they are illegal and they don't work on them!! I asked "illegal to own, or illegal for you to work on or illegal to sale"??
> At that point, he called his dad, who told him that they didn't have 404 chain anyway, so what was the problem"?
> I would still like to know where everyone gets this stuff!!
> David from jax


The big brand dealers can’t work on bows do to liability and their policy from what I understand this has been in place since the anti kickback laws came around.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Apr 26, 2022)

Just don't tell him what it's for...

'Hey, I need a 3/8", .050, full chisel, full comp chain with 91 driver links.' Insert your necessary chain specs. They don't need to know what saw it's going to be used on.


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## camel2019 (Apr 26, 2022)

EchoRomeoCharlie said:


> Just don't tell him what it's for...
> 
> 'Hey, I need a 3/8", .050, full chisel, full comp chain with 91 driver links.' Insert your necessary chain specs. They don't need to know what saw it's going to be used on.


The OP on this thread is from 2007 btw


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## Bill G (Apr 26, 2022)

I see an old thread has been brought back from the dead...That is a good thing as the issues are still very relevant. I see several had talked about needing chain for a bow bar and others saying don't tell the shop what it is for. That is fine but a lot of times folks will pick up a used bow somewhere and they do not really know how many drivers to tell the shop to spin. That is one reason no matter how junk or rocked out a chain is you should not toss it (unless you have a ton) Over the years I have ended up with hundreds of loops of used chain. If it has a bit of life left i will put it in a ziploc and label it. When trying to adapt some oddball bars or some of my whacked out ideas it is always good to have chains in virtually every driver count to test fit. As simple as it is to say just measure it, or measure twice cut once, I can easily admit to being off a driver on many occasions especially when you get into the larger pitch chain. Another option is to just keep about 20 ft around already broke into various short lengths and test fit it together. Obviously this is far from perfect as the used chain will be stretched and not fit like new chain but it will still help.


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## 9050lx (Apr 26, 2022)

ShoerFast said:


> Had a local Stihl Tech (young kid,,,, the old man(dealer) is on the ball) tell me there are no gains to be had muf-modding an MS-361
> 
> So I sez to da guy, I sez care to make a frendly wager on that? Told him I would race him new loop of chain on his shelf-stock 361 - new loop of chain on mine, i would keep the chain if I won,,,,, pay twice the price if I lose, and I would spot him a couple seconds on there 24" Doug-fir test log since my saw is broke-in. His comeback was that he didn't want to take my money, 'cause used saws don't run as hard as new saws' he sez.


Don't be mad at him, he's just in know-it-all training.


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## windblown (Apr 26, 2022)

Walk into the dealer next week dressed like "Leatherface" from Texas Chainsaw Massacre and see if he'll sell you some chain.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Apr 26, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> The OP on this thread is from 2007 btw


Still searchable...no reason to not write out a solution to the problem for down the road when someone finds this thread in a search.


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## Yoyo (Apr 27, 2022)

jhellwig said:


> The motor doesn't go backwards but if your boat has v belts and the pump you bought was meant for serpentine belt then the pump will be going backwards.


Actually, there are tournament slalom ski tow boats with V8 motors, made by Ford at the time if I recall, with cranks that rotate in a non-traditional direction. Nautique comes to mind. The intent was to offset some other effect (don't recall what) and produce a better outcome for the skier. They stopped doing this after awhile when the transitioned to using GM blocks.


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## torch (Apr 27, 2022)

jhellwig said:


> The motor doesn't go backwards but if your boat has v belts and the pump you bought was meant for serpentine belt then the pump will be going backwards.


Since we're digging up old stuff:

Reverse rotation engines are actually quite common in the marine world. Usually paired with a regular rotation motor in twin engine setups so the props spin in opposite directions to cancel torque lift and prop walk. 

Reversing the direction requires a reversed camshaft, different distributor gear (gas engine) or injector pump timing (diesel engine), reversed firing order, different starter motor, sometimes a different crankshaft (depending on oil gallery design) and -- speaking to the OP's point -- possibly reverse water pump. Depending on the design, spinning a water pump backwards will often move some coolant, but produce a low volume at low pressure leading to overheating.

We now return to our regularly scheduled 2 stroke chainsaw discussion...


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## cookies (Apr 27, 2022)

opposite rotation engines are a thing for boats, it helps the boat track strait


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## Cricket (Apr 27, 2022)

This kind of makes me smile - reminds me of a time years and years ago - hadn't run that many saws, my late mate - boyfriend at the time - had trimmed trees for a living for a while, told me what I needed for a certain situation. What it was, is lost in the mists of time, but it was *not* safety chain.

I went to the local Stihl dealer, told the lady behind the counter what I wanted - she looked at me funny, and said she didn't know if she could sell it to me (I'm 5' tall, female, and about 30 looked 15 at the time) - she called the boss out of the back, he said "Do you know about this chain?"

I said "It will get you if it can." He said "Sell it to her."


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## DonnieAy (Apr 28, 2022)

I am afraid we live in a world of pansies and idiots dumb downed by "technology"
The manual for my first truck told me how to adjust the valves in the engine, the one for the car the wife n I bought last year tells you not to drink the washer fluid or contents of the radiator.

I was out of state where I store an old tractor of mine at my son in Laws he had been using it and had been putting ethanol gas in it carb was fouled and I wanted a line wrench to pull the fuel lines ran out to the local CarQuest store and asked for one(line wrench/flarenut wrench) the guy (in his late fifties) was like" I have no Idea what your talking about" as in my mind I was thinking and maybe by the look on my face of "what in the hell are you doing here?" he says " I was a post man for twenty years & retired" I can respect that ..sad tho that's the best a parts store could recruit.

I grew up in our family owned heavy construction company environment and before Morbark whole tree chippers and Tub grinders were readily available we cut up all our land clearing work by hand. The hardwood we had a couple firewood mongers who took that and then pine and other softwoods/ trash wood we knocked the whole trees down with Cat D-6's to a brush pile and I had the distinction of cutting that up into 6' lengths and had to have it done by the time the dozer was back and had the next tree there too it was then Loaded out onto Mack DM-800's with a Cat 966C all the cutting was done with either Homelite Super wiz 66 and a 16" bow or a SXL and C72 w/ 14" Bow, we never used a straight bar unless we had to fell big timber. We never had any injuries outside of bee stings or a ear slapped by a pine branch.
Thru High school I worked for my dad in the summers and cut and sold firewood in the winter to pay for my first pick up truck, all with a bow saw, I have always primarily heated my home with wood and I still have the old Homlites but they gave way to Stihl 051 and 044 with bows... if there "illegal" I'm proud to be a outlaw.
sorry for the long cocky rant but I feel better now from having just spent $225 to fill my P/U and John Deere 4120 tractor with fuel Thanks!


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## cookies (Apr 28, 2022)

I'm not sure whats worse. People ill qualified to do a job telling other people bad information or the person getting the bad information who in their heart knows it to be wrong questioning their own knowledge and experience. More and more often the key to getting what you need is simply giving 0 information about what your doing or need to do but instead directly giving a part number or a direct size/length of a specific material. Things we have forgotten...We are never too old to learn or receive a @ss wooping.


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## camel2019 (Apr 28, 2022)

cookies said:


> I'm not sure whats worse. People ill qualified to do a job telling other people bad information or the person getting the bad information who in their heart knows it to be wrong questioning their own knowledge and experience. More and more often the key to getting what you need is simply giving 0 information about what your doing or need to do but instead directly giving a part number or a direct size/length of a specific material. Things we have forgotten...We are never too old to learn or receive a @ss wooping.


A lot of parts stores like to tell me they don’t carry parts for my vehicles bc their system only goes back so far so when I order things like wheel bearings I walk up and ask for a Timken set number and walk out with my bearings my 93 ranger I know by heart set 6 for the inner front and set 2 for the outer.


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## Wombat Ranger (Apr 28, 2022)

For what it's worth, I can still cut my leg off just fine with safety chain


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## Cricket (Apr 29, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> A lot of parts stores like to tell me they don’t carry parts for my vehicles bc their system only goes back so far so when I order things like wheel bearings I walk up and ask for a Timken set number and walk out with my bearings my 93 ranger I know by heart set 6 for the inner front and set 2 for the outer.


Used to be a place near here - I miss it greatly - that would just look at the part I'd brought in (from a bastard son Frankenstein truck that was part Jeep, part Toyota, with some Chevy parts thrown in just for ***** and giggles) - and just say "Just go in back and dig around in that far right shelf over there, 'til you find something that looks right."


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## camel2019 (Apr 29, 2022)

Cricket said:


> Used to be a place near here - I miss it greatly - that would just look at the part I'd brought in (from a bastard son Frankenstein truck that was part Jeep, part Toyota, with some Chevy parts thrown in just for ***** and giggles) - and just say "Just go in back and dig around in that far right shelf over there, 'til you find something that looks right."


Sounds like my scratch built truck idea.


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## Cricket (Apr 29, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Sounds like my scratch built truck idea.


I bought it that way (though my late mate added even more weirdness). If you drove it off soft ground onto pavement, in 4x4, you had to jack up the front, and the front wheels would go "zip!!" and unlock - front and back axles were way off ratios. But that damn thing would crawl fight up a wall with a load of gravel in the back.

Ugliest damn vehicle I ever owned - and that's saying something - but worth every cent of the three hundred bucks I paid for it...


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## TRTermite (Apr 29, 2022)

torch said:


> Since we're digging up old stuff:
> 
> Reverse rotation engines are actually quite common in the marine world. Usually paired with a regular rotation motor in twin engine setups so the props spin in opposite directions to cancel torque lift and prop walk.
> 
> ...





cookies said:


> opposite rotation engines are a thing for boats, it helps the boat track strait


Friend of mine (81year old gear head) tells of some oval track racer in the 50s' built it to run reverse rotation. Kept winning races for more than a few years and went through several engine tear downs/inspections. Some one finally noticed engine rotation at the start of inspection and got down to nitz and gritts. No fine given as it wasn't banned in the rules book, but the cat was out of the bag. The reverse rotation gave the inside rear (and front) wheel better weight transfer. 
A left hand circle mill can run directly off of a tractor PTO but not off of a regular rotation Industrial engine .. some Detroits in the old Busses (Rear engine) were reverse rotation and long story short- Dad had one but the clutch was an issue 'cuz money was scarce, so he said he didn't think putting an oil leaker was an up grade. 113 HP. to 235 HP.


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## Cricket (Apr 29, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Sounds like my scratch built truck idea.


I bought it that way (though my late mate added even more weirdness). If you drove it off soft ground onto pavement, in 4x4, you had to jack up the front, and the front wheels would go "zip!!" and unlock - front and back axles were way off ratios. But that damn thing would crawl right up a wall with a load of gravel in the back.

Ugliest damn vehicle I ever owned - and that's saying something - but worth every cent of the three hundred bucks I paid for it...


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## HarleyT (Apr 29, 2022)

I have been to a couple illegal bars...


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## TRTermite (Apr 29, 2022)

HarleyT said:


> I have been to a couple illegal bars...


Frequent the Same establissmunt (s) more than once??


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## Bill G (Apr 29, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Sounds like my scratch built truck idea.


Sounds like a AMC product. They were a hodge podge of parts from the factory


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## camel2019 (Apr 30, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Sounds like a AMC product. They were a hodge podge of parts from the factory


I own an amc built jeep Comanche pickup. Older amc were a mix match the inline engines are something they made themselves both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder I love both not high Hp but the torque curve is bang on.


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