# Want To Tile Behind Stove - Pics



## Cambium (Oct 9, 2010)

I want to install tiles around the stove so I dont have to worry about the sheetrock anymore. Its 16 inches away and I had no problems for past 2 years but I want my mind at ease.

So... the floor tiles are just laying there. My theory is, if I have to move the stove to another room or sell home, I just can remove everything. 

A. Install tiles on board and just lay it there as it is now.
B. Screw board to wall, install tiles
C. put 1x1 strips on wall, install board, install tiles.

Here's my question...Which is more of a fire hazard, the strips allowing air between wall and tiles, or tiles to the wall keeping the heat smothered?


----------



## unclemoustache (Oct 9, 2010)

tiles adhered to the wall is a fire hazard. You need to use proper backerboard to stick the tiles to. (And make sure you use the proper mastic to glue them, or they'll come off.)

An air gap is always better, especially if you have it open at the top and bottom - that way the air will flow better through the gap.

For your case, I'd recommend getting some 1" metal spacers and washers, and using 3" screws to screw the proper backboard 1" from the wall. Then tile the backerboard properly. If you need to remove it, then you can either cut off the screws and use a vice grips to get them out, or you can remove the tiles which cover the screwheads and unscrew them. Either way you'll only need to patch the screwholes rather than redo the wall.


Oh, and make sure you're following proper building code regulations, or your insurance won't cover any accidents.


----------



## Cambium (Oct 9, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> tiles adhered to the wall is a fire hazard. You need to use proper backerboard to stick the tiles to. (And make sure you use the proper mastic to glue them, or they'll come off.)
> 
> An air gap is always better, especially if you have it open at the top and bottom - that way the air will flow better through the gap.
> 
> ...



Thats probably what I'll do but I always thought if the wall gets very hot or catches fire then the air gap will feel it oxygen therefore making it worse to have that air...but I guess the point is to try to keep it cool before hand.

metal gets hot, why not 1x1 wood strips?


----------



## splittah (Oct 9, 2010)

This can guide you, CT codes may be a little different. Do a search online should yield the CT codes.

http://www.woodheat.org/safety/safeinstallation.htm


----------



## volks-man (Oct 9, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> tiles adhered to the wall is a fire hazard. You need to use proper backerboard to stick the tiles to. (And *make sure you use the proper mastic to glue them, or they'll come off*.)



hey stash,
i have the same stove. i also have tiles glued directly to drywall with regular acrylic mastic. 
that stove should have a heat sheild on the back (like mine).... so @18" clearance (mine) even when you burn at *full tilt *the wall tiles never get hotter than a floor tile in direct sunlight does.
drywall is used in firewalls all the time. regardless of what 'experts' say, i do not see how this is a fire hazard. 

i am under the impression that air gaps are more for products like stoveboard.

(notice the hot spot above the firebrick lining on the side. i burn it very hot)

edit: i'd be more concerned with the OP's floor tile not extending far enough in front to catch tumbling embers.....

<a href="http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/?action=view&current=PICT0717.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/volks-man/PICT0717.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## savageactor7 (Oct 10, 2010)

I dunno Cambium, you have a few things percolating there that could prove to be catastrophic. 

Besides that link if you have any wood burning buddys that fully* understands *the code...bring them in for a consult. And check out **********. too.

Fire make a good servant but can be a fearful master.


----------



## Cambium (Oct 10, 2010)

Dont get it guys.

1. The only time the door is open is when I'm lighting the stove at start or when I add a piece in there. I never leave it open. 

2. I'm always in front of the door so either the ambers land on me or if they do land on the floor I pick them up, most of the time it lands on the tile, very few ambers come flying out.

3. Its a brand new stove so its air tight, CPA certified or whatever. lol 

4. Sheetrock after a while will lose its moisture in excesive heat so it will dry therefore creating fire hazard. Thats why I want to tile the wall.

Regular sheetrock can withstand up to 100 degrees. Firecode up to 120. Its rarely 80 in the room. lol

I'm going to use wood strips, the metal will get warmer quicker. 

Thanks for the replies.


----------



## NorthernOntario (Oct 10, 2010)

all the code for spacers calls for "non combustible spacers". Easiest solution is to use metal studs... they are quite cheap. 

As for the arguement that metal gets hot faster... it might get hot faster, but it also dissipates heat faster. You need some sort of non-combustible spacer (NOT WOOD), then a backing board for the tiles to adhere to. Cement board is that you're supposed to use. 

The codes for 'clearance reduction' state that tile/cement board is a 50% reduction, 24ga steel is a 67% reduction, and tile/cement board with a 24ga steel backer behind it is 67% reduction. (all of that requires a min 7/8"-1" spacer for air gap).

I've got a metal shield and a cement board shield... the metal shield gets hotter (it's closer to black pipe), but it also dissipates that heat better, and the air gaps (as per code requirement) mean that air is naturally moving behind the metal to cool it down. It also "feels" warmer because it conducts heat more easily to your hand.

And as others have pointed out... I would be extending the hearth pad out... it only takes one ember that you don't spot. Or someone leaving something too close to the stove. 

Tiles directly mounted to the wall won't "smother" the heat... you're still placing the tiles directly on a combustible surface. (Tile transfers heat... just think of a heated floor with PEX or electric wires). You NEED the air gap to prevent heat transfer... and that gap also includes minimum spacing at the floor (and ceiling if you go that high) to ensure air can flow properly.


----------



## danrclem (Oct 10, 2010)

Here's a link to wood stove installation. Your family is worth the extra cost or trouble of a safe installation.


http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-100.html


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Oct 10, 2010)

Long post about pyrolsis and what purpose the air gap behind backer board serves deleted and summarized thus:

Using a combustible material to create the air gap defeats the whole ####ing purpose for an air gap.

If you're going to use an air gap, don't make one that is a hidden time bomb that people don't expect and can't see which twenty years from now some Fire Marshal is going to be shaking his head at another Stupid Human Trick.


----------



## Cambium (Oct 10, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Long post about pyrolsis and what purpose the air gap behind backer board serves deleted and summarized thus:
> 
> Using a combustible material to create the air gap defeats the whole ####ing purpose for an air gap.
> 
> If you're going to use an air gap, don't make one that is a hidden time bomb that people don't expect and can't see which twenty years from now some Fire Marshal is going to be shaking his head at another Stupid Human Trick.



Gonna use metal...sorry if I caused some grief about it. Im stubborn.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 10, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> tiles adhered to the wall is a fire hazard. You need to use proper backerboard to stick the tiles to. (And make sure you use the proper mastic to glue them, or they'll come off.)
> 
> An air gap is always better, especially if you have it open at the top and bottom - that way the air will flow better through the gap.
> 
> ...



:agree2:


No 1x2 furring strips. You want metal there, and you want airflow.


----------



## unclemoustache (Oct 11, 2010)

volks-man said:


> hey stash,
> i have the same stove. i also have tiles glued directly to drywall with regular acrylic mastic.
> that stove should have a heat sheild on the back (like mine).... so @18" clearance (mine) even when you burn at *full tilt *the wall tiles never get hotter than a floor tile in direct sunlight does.
> drywall is used in firewalls all the time. regardless of what 'experts' say, i do not see how this is a fire hazard.



Here's a good website: http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/tiling/how-to/tile-heat-shield/

The tile doesn't just reflect the heat, it also transfers it very well. Tile fastened directly to drywall will cause the drywall to heat up to almost the same temp as the tile. Drywall is a decent fire retardant, but the drywall is fastened to wood studs, which are not.
Cement backerboard is much better, and you need the air gap between the two. The OP pics show wall clearances that are considerably less than 18" - he needs all the fire protection he can get.


----------



## volks-man (Oct 16, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> Here's a good website: http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/tiling/how-to/tile-heat-shield/
> 
> The tile doesn't just reflect the heat, it also transfers it very well. Tile fastened directly to drywall will cause the drywall to heat up to almost the same temp as the tile. Drywall is a decent fire retardant, but the drywall is fastened to wood studs, which are not.
> Cement backerboard is much better, and you need the air gap between the two. The OP pics show wall clearances that are considerably less than 18" - he needs all the fire protection he can get.



sorry for the late post.......

*the stove in question is the key here.*
these stoves have a heat shield on the back.
when i installed my stove i met the minimum distance from combustables. though the diagram included with the stove is no longer in front of me, i believe it was only 18".
adding tile to drywall that was already far enough away is not going to increase the risk of fire.

all the websites and codes in the world can be quoted here but the fact remains that the stove is shielded in the rear.... and that changes the game.

*edit:* here is the clearance sheet for his stove and mine. mind you, they sell this stove under about 6 names... i believe they are the same stove.


----------



## Cambium (Oct 16, 2010)

volks-man said:


> sorry for the late post.......
> 
> *the stove in question is the key here.*
> these stoves have a heat shield on the back.
> ...



Correct. I'm far enough away as it is so the tile wont make it worse BUT he did have a point saying the tile pressed on the sheetrock will enhance the warmth. 

I haven't had the chance to tile it yet... Im mostly doing it for looks and so the drywall doesnt become warm to touch... The back and bottom are shielded NOT the sides. 

Havent been able to find those metal spacers.


----------



## volks-man (Oct 16, 2010)

Cambium said:


> Correct. I'm far enough away as it is so the tile wont make it worse BUT he did have a point saying the tile pressed on the sheetrock will enhance the warmth.
> 
> I haven't had the chance to tile it yet... Im mostly doing it for looks and so the drywall doesnt become warm to touch... The back and bottom are shielded NOT the sides.
> 
> Havent been able to find those metal spacers.



it's good that you want to be thorough. but, if you have the 7" shown above at the corners then you should be o.k. that's not to say i'd want my stove only 7" from the wall, but it shouldn't burst in to flames the first time you burn the stove. 

as far as warm drywall goes, again, it's good that you want to go the extra mile. but if the drywall is no hotter than if it were in direct sunlight then i'd think you'd be alright. i have a southern exposed sunroom. the floor and walls get very warm just from sun exposure. and, i've framed houses in 100* weather. the studs were also in direct sunlight. though everything was warm to the touch, i don't recall any of those houses bursting in to flames before we finished.

metal spacers can be something as simple as a piece of 3/8 metal pipe cut down to the legnth that you need your space to be. run your screws through the tile backer and through the pipe.
or if you want to run the spacers the full height of the tilebacker, perhaps try uni-strut. it's c-channel shape would give you more air space.

*embers on the floor:*
my tile floor sticks out 19" past the stove opening. *i have had several embers melt the carpet beyond it!* no matter how careful you are something always manages to get by you when you open the door and the flair-up causes a big 'pop'.
on the floor, i don't think you can have too much tile.


----------



## mama (Oct 17, 2010)

*tile hearth*

Hello I'm a semi retired tile contractor been in business for about 28 years here in Calif done alot of those hearths over the years.I would put a 1 in air space behind it with hardy backer and use thinset instead of mastic. you can never be to careful with the heat. If you had a zero clearance stove you could just glue it to the wall.


----------



## CTYank (Oct 17, 2010)

Another reason to get picky re protection of sheetrocked walls: time.
I've heard it explained that the framing behind sheetrock (and anyplace nearby, of course) gets progressively dried out in the course of a heating season.
Eventually it can ignite at much lower temp than earlier in the season.

So, even if the sheetrock only gets "kinda hot" come some icy Feb. night, you might have a fire inside the wall. Picky is good here. As is multiple layers of sheetmetal behind and below the stove to block IR.


----------

