# Equipment/advice for beginning Arborist



## eagleknight97 (Feb 27, 2007)

Hey guys, a big time noobie here. Got a few questions for you, but maybe a little background on me would help with the answers to the questions.

I am currently a Senior at the University of Illinois, majoring in Horticulture with an Urban Forestry concentration. What that basically means is that ive learned lots of book stuff about plants in general and very little actual Urban Forestry stuff. I do however have some practical experience from my summer job. The last 3 summers I have been working for my hometowns Street Department and the last 2 summers I have specifically been working with our Village Forester. Ive only been up in a handful of trees though, understandably though as his job isnt to teach some kid how to climb. However he is willing to help me out when we have time and I enjoy working with him because he has great knowledge and is younger (27ish) so I dont feel too out of place. Now to the questions.

First off, I really have no idea what im going to be doing when I finally graduate. I THINK that ideally I would like to become a sales arborist when im older. Im pretty sure this requires a decent amount of time at a company as a climber/trimmer correct? However, I also wouldnt mind becoming a Village Forester but it seems as if it would be difficult to become one with practically no experience of doing anything on my own. This begs the question, what should I do this summer? Even though I am a senior, I still have another year left due to my late decision on a major and am now playing catchup. My summer choices seem to be another year at the village working with our forester and hopefully getting more climbing time and more municipal experience. OR I can try to get an Internship at a Tree care company that would probably give me more saddle time but at the cost of hours that arent conducive to other activities going on for me during the summer and at a much reduced pay rate. Which job would look much better for a potential employer?

Second question is an equipment question. What is some basic equipment you guys would recommend for a beginner like me? I dont plan on pruning or removing any trees, but I would like to get more comfortable climbing and with the ropes and knots and everything like that. Right now the only piece of equipment I have that is Arborist related is a Fanno hand saw and a scabbard.


Thanks a LOT for any and all help!


----------



## Treeman587 (Feb 28, 2007)

Well,since you aren't sure what you will be doing with your fancy new dee-gree, some climbing experience will definately benefit you. You will gain new knowledge and understanding of how we go about business and hopefully how to do so safely. So anywhere you can learn to climb should be a good oppurtunity. That and any good arborist should know how to get a closer look at things. Here is a link of something you may be interested in. It is here in Virginia and no climbing, but just a thought.

Go to Search Openings, then Intern in the category, Scroll down to Intern Forestry, Norfolk
http://www.dom.com/jobs/brassring.jsp

For your second question........

Don't fall for those saddles with straps and hooks and crap all over. You have to crawl before you can walk so simple is better.

http://gear.sherrilltree.com/iwwidb.pvx?;multi_item_submit

That is the saddle I use, it is comfortable and will last for years.

You will also need a good flipline, or lanyard

Some auto locking carabiners and a good rope, such as arbormaster

Possibly some spikes depending on what you will be doing

A prusik loop or split tail may also come in handy

That is the most basic of what you will need. Remember that these pieces of equipment are your life. Inspect and maintain them reguarly.

The last set of climbing gear I purchased, totaled around $800

I am sure everyone else will add and change things but our advice may not work for you.


----------



## sawinredneck (Feb 28, 2007)

First and foremost get a copy of Jeff Jepsons Tree climbers companion!! That will help guide you with gear, teach you knots and techniques that are invaluable!!


----------



## Treeman587 (Feb 28, 2007)

sawinredneck said:


> First and foremost get a copy of Jeff Jepsons Tree climbers companion!! That will help guide you with gear, teach you knots and techniques that are invaluable!!



I forgot about that. Its a good book, thanks RNK


----------



## soutz (Feb 28, 2007)

simple.learn basics, climb safe with good habits.learn the knots my employees have to tie knots blindfolded before they get off the ground. climbers companion is awesome and realistic. i would say to climb without spurs unless doing take downs. work for a crew that has a good rep. time with a good team will speed up your work placement in the tree 100%.
no one learns to drive in a F1 car, start slow and low, simple but high quality gear. never and i mean never give into the speed vs safety head game, you will sooner or later pay for it. good luck. now go directly to the thread on its a climbing thing. be inspired.


----------



## treeseer (Feb 28, 2007)

I agree with treeman but I think you can pay half that for a simple set of gear.

I would shop around a little before I concluded that you'll make much less with a tree service.

Have you approached your village forester about integrating climbing into your summer job there?

Shame U of I not to get you into the field more as part of the degree. I bought a "Pruning Guide" some professor wrote for U of I Extension and it was full of crap. Ivory tower divorced from reality = 0 Credibility.

ISA HQ is right in your town--have you knocked on their door?


----------



## eagleknight97 (Feb 28, 2007)

sawinredneck said:


> First and foremost get a copy of Jeff Jepsons Tree climbers companion!! That will help guide you with gear, teach you knots and techniques that are invaluable!!



Actually ordered that book right before I posted this, any other good books out there that would be worthwhile for me to invest in?


----------



## PUclimber (Feb 28, 2007)

If you're interested and don't mind a little traveling. I'm at Purdue not too far from the IL border and we climb on Sundays and do work but I'd be more than happy if you want to come for a weekend and we can spend some time on a Saturday climbing and stuff or we can meet like halfway or something and I can climb with you. If you want to come to Purdue we do production climbing and work on Sunday. We run the departments bc2000 which is overkill and an old chip truck we got donated from Wachtel in Wisconsin. We actually have a course in tree climbing and arboriculture practices and that's how I got started and interested in this field a couple years ago now. I have an extra saddle and extra ropes and carabiners if you just want to get a little hands on knowledge and experience. We have couches and stuff at our apartment and we can paint the town and climb some. I also have a removal for a freind to do at his house if you're interested in learning some rigging as far as having some knowledge as a groundy. I worked over the summer for a tree care company in Indy and talking to guys who've graduated in the near past and a lot of them started at the bottom dragging brush on a tree crew or climbing some and then you learn how long jobs are going to take and everything and then they move you into sales atleast for larger companies. Also if you have some knowledge of all aspects of the field you'll get more respect for the guys that do nothing but climb or drag brush. Even some guys that are presidents or CEO's all started at the bottom as a grunt dragging brush. I say any knowledge or skill that you have that someone else might not would be a plus. so it would set you apart from the others. If you want you can just PM me.


----------



## adam (Feb 28, 2007)

*other books*

I'd invest in ISA membership, you can get a lot of info from their "Journal" and "Arborist news" and they are free for members. ANSI standards. Something about knots (Morrow guide to knots maybe), "Art and science of rigging" (worth reading,even twice, just don't get too confident implementing all this stuff). I love Beranek's "Fundamentals of general tree work", but it's me. And a lot of practice.


----------



## DonnyO (Feb 28, 2007)

*a little advice......*

don't buy any gear untill you try it out for yourself. what works for me may not work for you.

plan on getting dirty for more than a few years. Even though you have a degree and all, this business is all about real life experience.

realize that you are in a position of power (somewhat). There are a lot of companies out there looking for a guys like you with your credentials, make sure you get a good wage, but don't expect the world to be handed to you either!

Good luck, be safe,

DonnyO


----------



## treebender (Feb 28, 2007)

books? gerald beranek's "fundamentals of general tree work". it is a engaging, photo laden read. the title sums it up, and it fits on the back of the toilet perfectly.

gear? everyone will tell you the setup they use is best, and most of them are right. saddles with bosun seats are comfortable. locking steel snaps can be thrown, with rope attached(i prefer good old safety blue with a large spliced eye), over low limbs; throwlines work better for higher ones. i like my zubat handsaw. learn basic, real basic, techniques first.

have fun, be careful....


----------



## treeseer (Feb 28, 2007)

nice offer PU; you can learn a lot working the ground if your eyes are open. When I hire subs I work the ground. It is honorable work.
Nice also to hear my old company wachtel donated the truck.

Student membership for ISA is only what, $25? You can't afford NOT to join.


----------



## eagleknight97 (Feb 28, 2007)

PUclimber said:


> If you're interested and don't mind a little traveling. I'm at Purdue not too far from the IL border and we climb on Sundays and do work but I'd be more than happy if you want to come for a weekend and we can spend some time on a Saturday climbing and stuff or we can meet like halfway or something and I can climb with you. If you want to come to Purdue we do production climbing and work on Sunday. We run the departments bc2000 which is overkill and an old chip truck we got donated from Wachtel in Wisconsin. We actually have a course in tree climbing and arboriculture practices and that's how I got started and interested in this field a couple years ago now. I have an extra saddle and extra ropes and carabiners if you just want to get a little hands on knowledge and experience. We have couches and stuff at our apartment and we can paint the town and climb some. I also have a removal for a freind to do at his house if you're interested in learning some rigging as far as having some knowledge as a groundy. I worked over the summer for a tree care company in Indy and talking to guys who've graduated in the near past and a lot of them started at the bottom dragging brush on a tree crew or climbing some and then you learn how long jobs are going to take and everything and then they move you into sales atleast for larger companies. Also if you have some knowledge of all aspects of the field you'll get more respect for the guys that do nothing but climb or drag brush. Even some guys that are presidents or CEO's all started at the bottom as a grunt dragging brush. I say any knowledge or skill that you have that someone else might not would be a plus. so it would set you apart from the others. If you want you can just PM me.



Thank you very much for that generous offer! However, this year I do not have access to a vehicle, but if you are still at Purdue next year, I may very well take you up on your offer.


----------



## eagleknight97 (Feb 28, 2007)

treeseer said:


> nice offer PU; you can learn a lot working the ground if your eyes are open. When I hire subs I work the ground. It is honorable work.
> Nice also to hear my old company wachtel donated the truck.
> 
> Student membership for ISA is only what, $25? You can't afford NOT to join.



Agreed, I plan on joining in the next few weeks. I guess I never realized what I could learn from becoming a member, but it seems like there is a lot i can get fro that $25.


----------



## PUclimber (Mar 1, 2007)

Yes I will be back for another year for my victory lap. I'll be the president next year of our student arboriculture society. We would love to have you out next year and I'd be more than happy to help you out. Also you might talk to your professors if they're really into the urban forestry and have them contact Rita McKenzie or Harvey Holt at Purdue. I know this semester is the Midwest urban tree care forum in Chicago I believe is where it's at again or maybe it's in Michigan this year. We do a lot of trips like that and try to get other schools involved. Also I will let you know in November but I think we might be getting with other schools to go to the TCIA expo again. Last year we had around 6 schools that all went with us on Purdue charter busses. The education will help you learn some of the stuff that will get you ready to be an urban forester or learn proper tree care but reading a book and getting out and learning from experience is two different things. As far as if you're looking to get into the tree care side of things the money is either with a big company or owning your own as I see it. I know with Davey and Bartlett they've fast tracked some of the Purdue grads into upper level positions such as sales, management, etc. I am more than happy to help in anyway i can. I have friends that go to U of I to party since they have freinds there I could tag along and meet up to climb or something if you want.


----------



## 046 (Mar 1, 2007)

that's a very generous offer! 

I'd beg or borrow a vehicle to make some trips. 

a word of warning... there's a wealth of information on AS. but be very cautious of advice given on this forum. some may get you killed! 

best to start low and slow. 
get hooked up with a pro and see how it's done in person. 



eagleknight97 said:


> Thank you very much for that generous offer! However, this year I do not have access to a vehicle, but if you are still at Purdue next year, I may very well take you up on your offer.


----------



## sawinredneck (Mar 1, 2007)

046 said:


> that's a very generous offer!
> 
> I'd beg or borrow a vehicle to make some trips.
> 
> ...



I am learing all of this on my own, slow and low, I can't preach that enough!!!


----------



## eagleknight97 (Mar 1, 2007)

PUclimber said:


> Yes I will be back for another year for my victory lap. I'll be the president next year of our student arboriculture society. We would love to have you out next year and I'd be more than happy to help you out. Also you might talk to your professors if they're really into the urban forestry and have them contact Rita McKenzie or Harvey Holt at Purdue. I know this semester is the Midwest urban tree care forum in Chicago I believe is where it's at again or maybe it's in Michigan this year. We do a lot of trips like that and try to get other schools involved. Also I will let you know in November but I think we might be getting with other schools to go to the TCIA expo again. Last year we had around 6 schools that all went with us on Purdue charter busses. The education will help you learn some of the stuff that will get you ready to be an urban forester or learn proper tree care but reading a book and getting out and learning from experience is two different things. As far as if you're looking to get into the tree care side of things the money is either with a big company or owning your own as I see it. I know with Davey and Bartlett they've fast tracked some of the Purdue grads into upper level positions such as sales, management, etc. I am more than happy to help in anyway i can. I have friends that go to U of I to party since they have freinds there I could tag along and meet up to climb or something if you want.


Ill have to talk to my advissor and a couple of professors here about those things. Our Urban Forestry program is so small here, right now there are only like 4 or 5 of us in it, which sucks. Oh well. Hopefully this summer Ill pick up a saddle of my own, some rope and a few carabiners. That should get me started at least.


----------



## PUclimber (Mar 1, 2007)

Well if you're serious about it I can pick a weekend and come hangout and we can go over a few things. I'd say for now get you a small length of rope even if it is something from a hardware store or something (not to climb on) but to tie knots and become comfortable with your knots if you're getting jepsons book. Our urban forestry program isn't very big. It's actually just a minor and specializationi under the forestry domain. There's a two of us in the program now that are serious about the climbing aspect of it and we've got another who thinks he can get into urban forestry without getting his hands dirty so he's getting a management degree with an urban forestry minor. He acts like he's above dragging brush and getting dirty. So it's good you've got an open mind. Alot of the people take the arboriculture class as senior since they see tree climbing. I took it for that reason but not as a senior and it opened a whole new world to me. If you'd like to buy a decent used saddle I have a master II that is about 15 months old. not a whole lot of heavy use since I picked up a glide saddle off a guy I worked with over the summer. Also what 046 said he speaks the truth. Some here come up with new ideas and that's well and good but some climb on things not rated to meet the ANSI standards. That's another thing you might look into is a copy of the safety standards to go over. Also if you're in Illinois there tree climbing competition is a great place to see what some of the top climbers do and volunteer your time for it as a timer or to help with the kids climb. Norm Hall is a great guy to know from the care of trees up near chicago. If you're looking to stay in IL after graduation and are interested check them out. They're a well respected company and we have a lot of guys that are working for them right now from Purdue and there's been nothing but good things. For their internship program they will pay you more in the summer and help get you into housing around the area you'll be working in. We had a guy who they got into a decent apartment fully furnished and gave him an extra 3 or 4 dollars an hour to help cover housing. The opportunities are out there. The Illinois arborist association is a great thing to get involved in. A lot of good people there. I've been fortunate with Harvey being a past ISA president and holding many other positions in the ISA that he knows a lot of people and works very hard with the employers to set up career fairs. That's another thing we have an urban tree care job fair basically in the fall if you're interested in coming over for it next fall. The companies come in and bring students who recently graduated and they get up and tell about the company and then that night we go to Harvey's for a cook out to meet with everyone on a more personal and informal level. If you need anything or want to talk you're more than welcome to email me or PM here or even PM and I'll get you my number and we can talk on the phone.


----------



## 046 (Mar 1, 2007)

don't get too hung up on names of knots. there can be several different names for the same knot. much better to request a picture along with description of knot. 
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=568304#post568304

important thing is to know which knot to use for which application and know how to tie it down pat. a good informal test is can you tie knot blindfolded? always tie a "pretty" knot (along with a backup knot). it's not just for looks, it's for confirmation knot is tied properly. 

do a search on treespyder and knodeknoggin's past posts. they contain a wealth of information on knots. start with above link. within is an example of someone sewing a termination loop. that's fine and dandy but I would not trust my life to results. 

treespyder provides references in above link to his animated knots guide that are excellent. there's many others equally qualified, problem is knowing who to listen to and who to ignore.


----------



## eagleknight97 (Mar 1, 2007)

Where are some good online stores to at least look at different products that are out there? Pretty close to my home is Alexander Equipment so I can try out saddles and stuff there, but id also like to look at some other stuff.


----------



## OTG BOSTON (Mar 1, 2007)

eagleknight97 said:


> Where are some good online stores to at least look at different products that are out there?.



Good one chief, check the top of this page..............................

And welcome to AS


----------



## tree md (Mar 1, 2007)

I started out when I was 22 with an older guy who some would call a pickup hack. I call him a treeman. He was nearly 40 and didn't mind letting me climb and teaching me. I also went with him on the sales jobs and learned how to price jobs and sales techniques. I am also happy to say that this guy didn't just push takedowns. Instead he took the approach of treating trees for all around good health. I remember he would always walk up and pat a tree that was to be treated like an old friend. Anyway, I worked for him for a few years and learned how to climb and sell. Eventually, he had yellowpage ads out in two cities and had more work than he could do on his own so he let me handle a lot of work he got from the ad where he didn't want to travel and I picked up my own crew/team. That didn't last forever and I started selling and doing my own jobs. Times got tough a few times and I hired on with a couple of large tree services where I learned some invaluable knowledge like more advanced climbing techniques and doing arial lifts.

Experience is the best teacher but it helps a lot if you can find someone who is willing to take the time and have the patience to teach you.

Good luck to you my friend!


----------



## treeseer (Mar 1, 2007)

tree md said:


> he took the approach of treating trees for all around good health. I remember he would always walk up and pat a tree that was to be treated like an old friend. )


Touching trees, selling care-- sounds like a true professional, no matter what his wheels looked like.


----------



## StihlGirl2004 (Mar 2, 2007)

Good luck! I am also just getting started. I been climbing for just about a year now on and off. Something i have learnt though is to look around sometimes your bigger companies are a better bet for training plus it will probably lead to more money and opertunity. I worked for an independent company i got alot of saddle time, but not a hole lot of training. Now i work for a big company where I am getting alot more traing from not being as pushed, and alot more opertunity like spraying license, and bucket training.


----------



## PUclimber (Mar 5, 2007)

*To the Eagle*

Hey there. I was gonna give you a heads up about an upcoming event happening at the end of this month. It's a two day program put on by the Illinois arborist association in conjuciton with Purdue. It's called the midwest urban tree care forum. It's March 30-31 and registration for an ISA student member is $50 and there's a great line up of things so far. It's near chicago and the hotel rooms for the night are $96 bucks for a single or double. If you're interested in going we could split a room and we could stay one night or two depending on your interest. The hotel which is kind of the base is in Naperville and if we split a double you're looking roughly $48 a night and here's the program so far. Also we usually do some work on the grounds to help supplement the cost of food and such. It'd be a good experience and there's a lot of good speakers and some employers there for a job fair and if you're interested and we have some free time we could even do some climbing. Here's the list of things so far that I know of.
Current program content:

1) Morton Arboretum, Lisle - choice of three tours: 1) Plants of
China, 2) Children's garden, and 3) Ecological parking lot and run-off
water management

2) Bonnema Woods, Naperville - a residential development with strict
tree preservation in the covenant

3) Plant health care, West Chicago - state-of-the-art handling and
safety technology for the products used to control plant pests

4) Brookfield Zoo, Brookfield - tree care issues in conjunction with
wild animals

5) Millennium Park, Chicago - a tree filled park established over a
parking garage and train station

6) Cantigny Park, Wheaton - a public park with trees and formal
gardens; also the site for the service project

7) Job fair Friday night

8) Other sites are under discussion


----------



## eagleknight97 (Mar 5, 2007)

PUclimber said:


> Hey there. I was gonna give you a heads up about an upcoming event happening at the end of this month. It's a two day program put on by the Illinois arborist association in conjuciton with Purdue. It's called the midwest urban tree care forum. It's March 30-31 and registration for an ISA student member is $50 and there's a great line up of things so far. It's near chicago and the hotel rooms for the night are $96 bucks for a single or double. If you're interested in going we could split a room and we could stay one night or two depending on your interest. The hotel which is kind of the base is in Naperville and if we split a double you're looking roughly $48 a night and here's the program so far. Also we usually do some work on the grounds to help supplement the cost of food and such. It'd be a good experience and there's a lot of good speakers and some employers there for a job fair and if you're interested and we have some free time we could even do some climbing. Here's the list of things so far that I know of.
> Current program content:
> 
> 1) Morton Arboretum, Lisle - choice of three tours: 1) Plants of
> ...



Thanks for the heads up man! Ill keep that in mind, but im not a student member of ISA yet and im pretty sure that ive got something going on that weekend here at school.


----------



## PUclimber (Mar 5, 2007)

It's a great opportunity and you don't have to be a student member of ISA to go you just have to pay a little more it's $75 for a non member. If it's not something big you have going on I would encourage you to go.


----------



## A. Stanton (Mar 5, 2007)

I would tell you work at something you are interested in doing for a living and try it out. If it is some kind of tree business, go work for an old timer, then when he is ready to retire, buy the business from him.
Any any rate, do work that you love and the money will follow.


----------



## treeseer (Mar 6, 2007)

PUclimber said:


> it's $75 for a non member. If it's not something big you have going on I would encourage you to go.


I would too, if you are sincere about this career.

Let's see, "registration for an ISA student member is $50" + $25 dues = $75 noinmember. I don't have a college degree:jester: , so please sir check the math ofr me. It seems that joining costs you NOTHING if you attend.

:love1:


----------



## newguy18 (Mar 18, 2007)

*im new to*

hi my names bill howe i am new to tree climbing to. i myself read several books on all aspects of tree work and taught myself how to climb in my own back yard and through countless mistakes and falls. i would recomend the fundamentals of general tree work by gerald berenak.as for your gear try a company called wesspur.good luck and play it safe.proud owner of a husqvarna 51 141 and a home:greenchainsaw: lite:greenchainsaw: :


----------

