# Bullet performance.



## deeker (Nov 5, 2010)

The results of four shots at Mule deer in Utah.

Barnes XLC 165 grain 30/06 shot at 260+ yards.....both shoulders destroyed and complete pass through.

Hornady Superformence 30/06 180 grain SST shot at 53 yards...hit top of near shoulder....through spine and then turned toward the deers spine.

Remington Core Lockt 30/06 165 grain BT shot at just over 300 yards...bullet past behind last rib, quartering toward the off shoulder...broke up part of the jacket....exited with most of the bullet by the sternum.

Swift Scirraco 30/06 150 grain......well over 320 yards....shot behind both shoulders..complete pass through..

Results? Four deceased bucks. Almost instantly.

Another friend of ours shoots the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum. He uses Berger bullets. He used a 180 grain Berger boat tail on a deer....we won't discuss how far he shot it....he also shoots thousands of rounds per year.
The bullet passed through just forward of both shoulders....and took out the spine.

My point? Well several....what do you guys shoot deer/elk/pronghorn/moose and caribou with?

What types of bullets do you use? Results?

It is illegal in Wyoming to use a .224 caliber rifle for big game.

We have taken deer with the .223 Remington in Utah and other states. I enjoy using the .220 Swift with X bullets for game up to deer.

Looking into buying a new Remington .300 Ultra Magnum. Never needed more the my 30/06, but like shooting targets are very very very loooooooooong ranges.

Most of our hunting here in Utah the shots vary from 50 yards to OMG ranges.

Mountain side to the other mountain side can be one hell of a long way's.

Practice practice practice.

One friend used a bullet that I don't remember the make of....and complained that it fell apart on a large 6x7 bull elk he popped at about 200 yards.
Smashed the near shoulder and broke up next to the hide past the off shoulder. One dead elk in its tracks ....and he was mad because the bullet fell apart in the elk's instant death.

What ranges do you guys hunt and shoot in?

Kevin


----------



## wigglesworth (Nov 5, 2010)

As for factory loads, the Hornady SST, 180gr 30.06 puts a hurtin on the paper and the deer. 3 shot groups average 1/2" at 100 yards. I have yet to recover a bullet yet, but haven't failed to recover the game.


----------



## dingeryote (Nov 5, 2010)

Don't get to rifle hunt much these days.

Barnes X's and swift A-frames when I do because that's what the 338GT likes.

In the Tikka .308 it's the Sierra 165gr HP Gameking(Same bullet used in the Federal LE TRU loading) for Deer. It gives up some velocity and BC out yonder but the flat base accuracy more than makes up for it. Just gotta read the boil and know the dope to 50m between 4-700.
Up close, it's a messy thing to do to a deer though.


In 6.5Skan in my old M96 Gustav(Husqvarna) the 129gr Hornady just cannot be beat period. None of the latest whiz bang, bonded, monolithic, lazer optimized and made in a machine shop bullets are anywhere near as consistently accurate or perform any better.

Mostly hunt with an old 1st series Ruger Bisley .44mag I have rebuilt a couple times now. Sierra 210gr Hp's over 25gr H110 drop Bambi nicely and a 70yd zero is 3" low @100 and 2" low at 25. I mostly get shots under 20yds LOL!!

Hold off on that Ultra mag Kevin.
Start looking at the old 300Win. and just wait...
No point in an extra long action and burning 90gr of kingsford to get what the Ultra offers anymore.

I dunno if you noticed or not, but the powders used in the Hornady superformance were released in canister lots just last month, and shortly the other shoe will drop.

Mother green has been busy, and the trickle down is coming.
Keep an eyeball on the Magazine(G&A, shooting times,etc.) racks, and just wait.
No.. I can't and wont say, as I gave my word.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 5, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Mostly hunt with an old 1st series Ruger Bisley .44mag I have rebuilt a couple times now. Sierra 210gr Hp's over 25gr H110 drop Bambi nicely and a 70yd zero is 3" low @100 and 2" low at 25. I mostly get shots under 20yds LOL!!
> 
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



I like handgun hunting too. I use a T/C encore in the 460 S&W, but usually just shoot the 454 casulls out of it so I dont have to carry ear plugs to the woods.lol 

Mainly just carry the encore on bear and hog hunts were I gotta lead 2 or 3 dogs through god knows what. For deer I use a 243 wssm, 25.06, or 270. Also have a 35 whelen auto that I like awful well, but I use it for the bigger stuff when we dont have dogs and might have a futher shot than 20 or 30 yard.


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Nov 5, 2010)

It's hard to beat the Sierra Matchkings for accuracy. As far as busting up deer, depends on where you hit them. I've seen ballistic tips shatter when hitting bone on the smaller calibers, like .223 and .22-250. I hunt with a .270WSM and a 6.8SPC. The 270 has lots of power but is overkill for our size of deer. Any bullet in that .270 messes our deer up, the recoil is a little much in such a light rifle. I'm going to get a brake installed or sell it for something a little smaller. I got a .308 if I want to reach out there. I love shooting the 6.8 and .308.

I like that .460S&W also, waiting to find one for a deal......


----------



## les-or-more (Nov 5, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Don't get to rifle hunt much these days.
> 
> Barnes X's and swift A-frames when I do because that's what the 338GT likes.
> 
> ...


Your a cruel man dinger, do all the ultra mags powder burn the target like my .300 does?


----------



## adam32 (Nov 5, 2010)

Been using Bergers in the .243 AI, .270 Win, and 7mm Rem Mag with no complaints...


----------



## deeker (Nov 6, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Don't get to rifle hunt much these days.
> 
> Barnes X's and swift A-frames when I do because that's what the 338GT likes.
> 
> ...



So, if you wish to avoid a beating....don't keep me in suspense....

About the .300 Worthlesschester....it has a pointless/worthless belt and a short neck.

Now about keeping me in suspense....

Do what is best, and enlighten me.....ASAP or sooner.

The last belted round I owned was the .340 Weatherby Mangleum.

It came ( at the time ) in Norma way too soft brass at the time. I am not a fan of the old Norma brass. Once you fire it, you cannot get close with any reload. Even using new and unfired brass and identical components.

Belts on a rifle cartridge = 38DD's on a Nun.


----------



## dingeryote (Nov 6, 2010)

deeker said:


> So, if you wish to avoid a beating....don't keep me in suspense....
> 
> About the .300 Worthlesschester....it has a pointless/worthless belt and a short neck.
> 
> ...




LOL!!
Tell AMTU and the 2112's at quantico the 300 Winnie neck is too short. :hmm3grin2orange:

The vestigial belt never got in the way of anything.
It's just annoying like the wings on those little fart cars the kids are driving.
Agreed, but it's there and not bothering anyone.

The gent I gave my word to?
My old XO, and employer for a bit after we both got out.
Don't even presume I would break my word or violate a legal non-disclosure contract LOL!!!

Just remember the Armys M24 system is a long action 700 not a short action, and the .300 winnie version has been around since inception and used quite a bit in the last several years. 
Our Tax dollars are at work is all I am saying.:hmm3grin2orange:

Just keep an eyeball open and I'll holler at ya as soon as I can.

Have you looked up the load data and exterior #'s for the superformance powders yet?  

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## wigglesworth (Nov 6, 2010)

Forgot I had this pic saved. This was the very first group fired from my pal's new Marlin 30.06 rifle. My rifle didnt like the lighter, 150gr SST's, but apparently his did. Ignore the flyer, it was my fault.


----------



## deeker (Nov 6, 2010)

Gonna have to take a look at the new powders.

I am looking at a .300 RSUM on an AR-15 platform with a 24" barrel.

No belt. And a respectable neck.....One of the things that hurt the .264 Winchester mangleum.....belt and short neck.

Got to shoot an Ackley Barreled 03 Springfield a few days ago....in the ultra old 6.5x57 round.....the round first appeared in the 1890's and people try to say they "created" it in the '70's.

It has a 26.5" barrel and shoots up there with the 6.5/06 with a 24" barrel.

It is a 7x57 necked down....


----------



## deeker (Nov 6, 2010)

Superformance is a "blended" powder?

Or is it a "crushed" or compacted powder? Kind of like H-4831SC? 

Gonna have to pop the bullet out of one and look for myself.

Get back to you on that one...


----------



## dingeryote (Nov 6, 2010)

deeker said:


> Superformance is a "blended" powder?
> 
> Or is it a "crushed" or compacted powder? Kind of like H-4831SC?
> 
> ...



Deek,

It's a blend like RL17, with some twists in the coatings for specific applications and pressure curves.

The powder was released just a month or so ago for the most common applications, as it is very narrow in scope within burn rate, and favoring the really overbore cartridges.

They are NOT done though.:hmm3grin2orange:

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/superformance-technology.pdf

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/SuperLever.pdf


Long range gains using VLD's 170's and 180's in the .30 short Mags has the .338Lapua looking nervous with only a small advantage in CSD, and some of the F-class weenies as well as the Tactical shooters are in full scale tinker mode within the scope of the narrow applications so far, but the real sweet spot requires yet another powder variation in a slightly less overbore Case. 


.30wssm in an AR platform?
That could be a hoot. But a 6.5-308ack/American would make more sense downrange with a higher B.C. and better CSD using conventional bullet designs.
But then I'm 6.5 Biased LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## rob206 (Nov 6, 2010)

deeker said:


> So, if you wish to avoid a beating....don't keep me in suspense....
> 
> About the .300 Worthlesschester....it has a pointless/worthless belt and a short neck.
> 
> ...



I just use the Lee Collet die for my 338 WIN and neck size it only. Haven't had to full length size in quite some time.

As far as bullets for hunting, either Nosler Patition for "big" big game like elk, or run of the mill cup and core bullets for deer.


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Nov 6, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Long range gains using VLD's 170's and 180's in the .30 short Mags has the .338Lapua looking nervous with only a small advantage in CSD, and some of the F-class weenies as well as the Tactical shooters are in full scale tinker mode within the scope of the narrow applications so far, but the real sweet spot requires yet another powder variation in a slightly less overbore Case.



I only see velocity numbers, where are the energy tests? I could see bench shooters going for the new powdered .300wm but the need/use of the .338LM is purely power. I know either one are not fun to shoot without a brake or can.




dingeryote said:


> .30wssm in an AR platform?
> That could be a hoot. But a 6.5-308ack/American would make more sense downrange with a higher B.C. and better CSD using conventional bullet designs.
> But then I'm 6.5 Biased LOL!!
> 
> ...



The 300wsm is doing well for the bolt guns for both BC and power, most are hand loads though. I think a well designed wildcat in the .30 caliber would be slick for the AR platform. I really like the 6.5S but last time I checked the inventor was the only one loading the rounds. Very expensive...


----------



## sbhooper (Nov 9, 2010)

I have reloaded since I was 17 years old and have tried lots of bullets. I always seem to go back to standard Hornady Interlocs. They are reasonably priced and I have never found a gun that would not shoot them. 

Bullet performance is really not a discussion unless you are talking light calibers, or big game larger than deer. Deer are easy to kill with any standard bullet in a standard caliber. If you insist on shooting the .22 calibers for deer, then it is a good idea to go with the toughest bullet you can find. 

If you start talking about elk, African game etc., then premium bullets are by far the best insurance, but this depends also on velocity. If you are shooting a standard velocity round like a .308 or 30-06, a standard bullet such a Hornady spire point, Cor lokt or such will do amazingly well. Magnum velocities need tougher bullets.

If you are hunting deer and antelope, just find the bullet that shoots well in your gun and go for it. Most bullets are going to be pass-throughs on the average shots anyway.


----------

