# lowering device



## SWAMPY036 (Jan 27, 2007)

I have been using a giant clevis that I attached to the base of the tree with a girth hitch seems to work pretty good. I normally will take two wraps on it and so far my groundy has not had an issue with some 200 lbs blocks. (they were lifted of the spare not dropped into the rope) I really do not want to shell out $140 for a large port a wrap. I was wondering what other tested methods are out there. I do not have the technology to post pics but if any one could of their method that would be great.


----------



## Davey Dog (Jan 27, 2007)

My groundy uses a pear shaped screw lock biner.... Attached to a base with the same type of girth hitch.... He runs the bull through the biner with a friction slide/muenter hitch((that better????)). I have seen him one hand 14-18" by 10' redwood logs..... He is able to maintane total control with the set up he uses and can halt movement with just a simple half hitch....
I will see if I can snap some pics on our next removal...


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 27, 2007)

I am curious what exactly is this 'friction slide'? That's a pretty vague term. I am intrigued.

I use a biner-based system as a lowering device, but it is done from up in the tree.

I've never used a Port-a-wrap, either, but everyone raves and if you're controlling friction from the ground, and pieces can get big, just buy the right tool. If a $140 tool can allow you to move through an $800 tree, just suck it upo and buy the right tool for the job. It covers itself in a day and is still yours for life.

The 'right tool' could be a GRCS, but if you're squirming at $140 bucks, the price of a GRCS should bring on a coronary event.


----------



## Davey Dog (Jan 28, 2007)




----------



## rbtree (Jan 28, 2007)

that's a muenter hitch....


----------



## Davey Dog (Jan 28, 2007)

OK, I fixed my vague term for everyone.......... its a ((muenter hitch))


----------



## coydog (Jan 28, 2007)

the benefit of using a portawrap is a larger bend radius than a shackle or carabiner, also the rope on rope friction of a munter will shorten the life of your lowering lines( not that I haven't done some lowering on a munter in a pinch, I've also used shackles or steel carabiners instead of blocks(been a while though), but I don't recommend it) The portawrap is a very user friendly tool, and you can control the friction in a predictable manner very quickly, it's worth the money. If I have to do any dynamic lowering I'm more inclined to use trunk wraps than a munter, if I don't have a lowering device handy.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 28, 2007)

Friction of PortaWrap is adjustable in a second by taking more or removing turns; for consistent, ground controllable friction braking.

Lots of curling in that Muenter; especially routed like that?


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 28, 2007)

Yea, what Spidey said.



As we all know, the Muenter (italian hitch) puts a twist in the rope, so even as a belay ya gotta be careful and manage the rotating, spiralling line.

In lowering big stuff, you get plenty of friction, no doubt, for that's the beauty of of the dual 'rope-on-rope' and 'rope-on-steel' friction in a most excellent configuration; but the lengthwise rotation it puts on the rope...... if the entire length of the rope were suspended, the spin could spin out (like in abseiling a rope whose end hangs just above ground. 

But lowering big wood isn't like that. You're belaying a line and controlling a load, moderating friction, bowing to the law of gravity. With the Muenter, the rope you're feeding through your belay hand is rotating, and the axial spin can not travel down the rope, why?, because it's lying in a hank on the ground next to you. Eventually, when the spin accumulates, you have a large amount of spin in a short length of rope. You're bringing down a heavy load, you feel a wad of rope curling and coming toward your belay hands from behind you, you see there's no avoiding it now, the spinning, twisting coiling mass is now pulling toward the Muenter, if you hold it your hands will be forced into the now super hot caribiner surface....

Stopping it could melt the rope in two, and the other option, letting go altogether, aside from the impact of the crown impaling itself into the garage roof and through the hood of the car inside there, then there's the part of what's going to happen to the rope between the distance of however far your limb is going to drop, that wad, hockles, gets sucked through the friction device (pear biner) under tension, and albeit momentrily, the biner is scalding hot. Individual hockles 'roll' through the tensioned hitch, creating a 'bounce' if indeed they are able to pass. IF, the hockles become so severe that they jam the progress of the rope and you have a load hanging suspended..... you have a very dangerous situation.

SO, for a hundred and fourty dollars, you have lifetime insurance that the above scene doesn't ever happen. Would you sign up for a ten year rental agreement at $14 dollars a year? Given that this device allows you to make more money by being more efficient and more productive and safer overall. It IS a gift that keeps on giving.

I'm kinda talkin myself into getting one.


----------



## Sunrise Guy (Jan 28, 2007)

Sorry, but with all due respect, you're being penny-wise and dollar foolish. If you are not a professional, and are only doing one job a year, or just helping out friends for beer, then maybe being a cheapskate makes sense. If you are in the biz, you are ridiculous to sweat the bucks for a Port-a-wrap. We use ours often, and it makes jobs easier and safer than the old Muenter hitch on a carabiner trick. I suppose I could tell you how great the GRCS is, as well, but spending $2400 might give you a stroke, right?


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 28, 2007)

Heh, heh.


:Eye: :Eye: You're gonna get that view from ANY of us. In fact, our ancester tree brothers back 2,000 year ago, like in the Ancient Roman Arborist Civilization, from where we get the saying, "if I ain't climbin', I'm Roman"


These cats knew rigging, and were paid well for their mastery of the handling of friction, but they were expected to create the ropes and devices necessary to accomplish the mission.

Today, we have really good ropes already made for us, excellent rated lifting slings and the PortWrap III.


----------



## SWAMPY036 (Jan 28, 2007)

I am not crying about the $140 nor am I going into cardiac arrest. I am new to the business and I have not had alot of exposer to the (old school) ways and rather than just buying something for any amount of money I am just trying to look at all my options. I can see it now would be wise to get a portawrap III. I also have a lot better feeling that I am getting worth its value.


----------



## lawmart (Jan 28, 2007)

Do not worry,
I still have my original port-a-wrap from 10 years ago , all the new guys say " whats with the boat anchor" i have to tell them that it is the first port-a-warp. 


Lawmart 
Play safe


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 28, 2007)

Get a loan for $2,500 for a GRCS and use it to remove a $2,500 tree in a day or two. You won't miss the money,'cept for maybe that week, but you are then equipped to do safe and versatile rigging and lowering with the world's most well-suited tool for the job of lowering heavy loads out of the top of a tree and technical rigging and (especially) hoisting.

Become one with the bollard and THEN, you are fully capable of so much, _for the rest of your career....
_

Get insurance first, though.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 28, 2007)

In the old days, arborists would just take a wrap around the tree trunk. Big hunks meant more wraps, small pieces meant a 1/4 or a 1/2 a wrap. Also, back in the olden days, they didn't use a pulley at the loering point.

I'd consider this method far better than a munter hitch.

An arborist needs a port-a-wrap. If he decides a GRCS is in his budget, it should be after he buys the port-a-wrap.


----------



## Munkee feet (Jan 28, 2007)

*getting started*

I have to agree with the most on this issue...and I have a portawrap. But when I was first starting out and needing to buy ropes, saddles, etc...its hard coming up with extra $140.00...and I just wrapped the rope around another tree, fence post or the bumper of my truck. good luck. Munkee feet


----------



## SWAMPY036 (Jan 28, 2007)

Tree Machine said:


> Get a loan for $2,500 for a GRCS and use it to remove a $2,500 tree in a day or two. You won't miss the money,'cept for maybe that week, but you are then equipped to do safe and versatile rigging and lowering with the world's most well-suited tool for the job of lowering heavy loads out of the top of a tree and technical rigging and (especially) hoisting.
> 
> Become one with the bollard and THEN, you are fully capable of so much, _for the rest of your career....
> _
> ...


----------



## Mtnman4ever (Jan 28, 2007)

Hi Swampy I am new to the site but not to logging 


I wouid get the GRCS I have seen them at work impresive for a 2500 piece of eqiupment . If you drop a few 1 ,000 - 2,000 tree you will have made your money back and saved a bunch as you can droop more trees and expand your bussiness! Oh yeah you can make more money and buy more stuff! As fro the laon you will have thatr paid off in a short time as yopu can dop more work . I learned that he easy way watching my sister and her husband build a comapny .


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Jan 28, 2007)

If you bide your time a good used Port-a-Wrap may show up on the Trading Post!!!


I only do treework part time...........but a port-a-wrap is an essential piece of equipment!!!


----------



## Timberhauler (Jan 28, 2007)

We have a GRCS and a port-a wrap,and the port a wrap is used three times more than the GRCS.I would hate to be in this business without one though


----------



## Curtis James (Feb 2, 2007)

The port a wrap is an essential tool. I occasionally borrow a second one for bigger jobs. I attach it to my bobcat to pull spares over when felling. Just today in fact. I am in the same boat. Once you get it you and your ground man will totally waana cuddle with it at night. it just gives you that warm cozy feeling. Even when dropping big pieces into it a good ground guy will let it run just enough not to shake the spar. It 's great!


----------



## osb_mail (Feb 2, 2007)

*Has anyone ever made one*

I was just thinking that it probably would be to hard to make a port-a-wrap . I just from looking at them I would think that a good welder would be able to make one . It might be dangerous but I know a guy that welds that I would feel more safe using something he wielded than something out of the factory .




Just a thought .Here is picture if someone does not know the what a port-a-wrap is.


----------



## jmack (Feb 3, 2007)

Munkee feet said:


> I have to agree with the most on this issue...and I have a portawrap. But when I was first starting out and needing to buy ropes, saddles, etc...its hard coming up with extra $140.00...and I just wrapped the rope around another tree, fence post or the bumper of my truck. good luck. Munkee feet


didnt even make it through the thread, i find buying lunch at a deli very difficult i know you old school guys used to buy sandwiches at the deli, yester day i bought a wrap and it was 8 even, no soda, uh dats a 160 a month based on 8 for lunch per day, thank god i didnt do the math on my beer or coffe tab or my gas or insurance etc etc, if your finding it hard to raise 140.00 we have a problem and it aint about lowering devices, swampy your from ny go visit   buck in binghamton see how they test and make them , or just go old school, and wrap around the trunk and plug your replacement cost of ropes into the equation, think about the guy who bought the first grcs for 2500.00 i wonder if he had as to bounce ideas off of?


----------



## jmack (Feb 3, 2007)

osb_mail said:


> I was just thinking that it probably would be to hard to make a port-a-wrap . I just from looking at them I would think that a good welder would be able to make one . It might be dangerous but I know a guy that welds that I would feel more safe using something he wielded than something out of the factory .
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought .Here is picture if someone does not know the what a port-a-wrap is.


you wanna borrow my lanyard?


----------



## Curtis James (Feb 3, 2007)

Funny you should mention that . I know a guy that had one made. His grandfather welded it out of some beefy hunk of metal and the grandson was talking about having a bunch more made until someone mentioned patent infringement. He ended up giving the home made port a wrap to another guy I know and it is still in use today. It is about exactlly like the one I bought. It was just painted orange.


----------



## JayD (Feb 15, 2007)

rahtreelimbs said:


> If you bide your time a good used Port-a-Wrap may show up on the Trading Post!!!
> 
> 
> I only do tree work part time...........but a port-a-wrap is an essential piece of equipment!!!



It's a good idea in theory that is get one out of the trading post, but the only problem with that is you don't know if it has been abused and repaired by some one who not quite up to scratch....this equals possible failure...to possible fatality if it gives it's only going one way it's going up and what ever your lowering is coming down a break neck speed..if you are fully confident with your welding skills make one up, i've made up three so far going from 50 mm OD to 110 OD mm that's the diameter of the pipe...but that's me,


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 15, 2007)

I remember that one....


----------



## Magnum783 (Feb 16, 2007)

I use a bollard I love it, I don't like a porta because it tends to wiggle and and is not a rigid. I made my bollard, but I have a incredible vast knowledge of welding. I am certified and had mine x-rayed. Not something I would recomend to just anyone(Making your own that is) All things aside I really do like my bollard. Don't get me wrong I as soond as I get close to enough cash for a GCRS one is comming my way and fast. Those things look like the best thing since sliced bread and I would really like to have one. Good luck in your choices, I agree to I always over anilize every purchase.
Jared


----------



## Curtis James (Feb 16, 2007)

What does x-raying show you about your weld? just curios.I did only a little welding when I worked for a farm service. On augers and such. I probably don't even have one full hour doing it. It is definetally a skill that takes time to fine tune. I really couldn't figure it out. How to even start was hardest for me. I could never see what I was doing. My step brother is amazing. He can weld up side down and backwards. Having welded in the nuclear reactors of submarines. I think he glows in the dark now though. He has had more radiation exposure for his life time then you are suppose to so he got out of the navy a little upset that his carrier was over already. He's doing fine though. I didn't want you guys losing any sleep over him.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 16, 2007)

X-Raying shows 'pockets', little holes within the metal whose outward surface appears to be otherwise sound. Imperfections within the weld, and the depth of weld, like where you have two flat surfaces and you weld a nice, righteous bead, but a good-looking surface bead doesn't always tell the story of what's deeper. Also, sometimes you lay a weld on top of a weld and bits of slag can get trapped in there. An X-ray will show junk in your weld.

I stick weld (arc), so it's fairly easy to get imperfections in your weld, but then again I'm not welding racecar or airplane frames. Jay D is MIG welding, which is easier and a more efficient weld, he does amazing beautiful work. I'd bet money they're close to perfect.

There's a forum site I used to lurk now and then, just like our arboristsite, but it's for welders, with a very helpful search function like ours. Think we have big egos floating around here?, go try that site. Without a doubt, though, those guys know their stuff.


----------

