# Central Boiler vs Wood Master



## hockeypuck (Sep 12, 2006)

I have narrowed it down to these two wood boilers. I am trying to choose between forced draft and convention draft and also trying to figure out if the foam insulation is good or bad. I have have heard that the foam could cause the steel water jacket to rust out sooner than the fiberglass bats.

Thanks in advance, 

'puck

PS I will be burning mainly soft woods. This is the reason why I am getting the outdoor furnace. I have 30 acres of mostly soft wood.


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## MS-310 (Sep 12, 2006)

Central boiler.
foam insulation is the best way to go.
Wood masters are pretty good stoves but I would go with the central boiler for the foam insulation + the fire box with the big down baffle in the back really make this stove eff.
Jack


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## Husky137 (Sep 13, 2006)

forced draft can be purchased as an option on the central boilers as well. Mine works fine with natural draft.


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## hockeypuck (Sep 13, 2006)

*What type of wood do you burn?*

What type of wood do you burn in your boiler and how many chord (real chords) of wood do you use. I have a well insulated house and have 2000 square feet of living space and 600 feet of garage I want to heat? My hot water is also heated indirectly off of my boiler, so I will be heating that as well.

Puck


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## Butch(OH) (Sep 13, 2006)

After searching and studying for months I came to the conclusion that there is no clear cut winner when it comes to type of draft and several other features like shape and material. I also came to the conclusion that there are few unsatisfied outdoor boiler owners. I talked to dozens of stove owners and other than one that could obviously screw up an anvil, I have yet to talk to one that wished he didn't own his boiler. I choose the Woodmaster made of 1/4 mild steel. One of several reasons was the insulation for (maybe) an odd reason, repair. If I ever have jacket problems I can remove the siding and blanket and the jacket will all be right in front of me for patching. A CB unit with jacket problems looks to me like a candidate for the scrap heap. However I don't mean to knock CB or any other make nor claim to have the best one made. Woodmaster has been in business a while and the dealer was great so they got a sale. My supply of cherry is limited and mine will primarily see less desirable wood like sycamore, white elm, even some cotton because that is what is in my 20 acres of woods.


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## MS-310 (Sep 13, 2006)

If you need to make a repair on a central boiler it is a very easy, just use spray foam for the patch work on the insaltion.
Jack
works for me.


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## MS-310 (Sep 13, 2006)

hockeypuck said:


> What type of wood do you burn in your boiler and how many chord (real chords) of wood do you use. I have a well insulated house and have 2000 square feet of living space and 600 feet of garage I want to heat? My hot water is also heated indirectly off of my boiler, so I will be heating that as well.
> 
> Puck



I would say about 3 to 6 cords of good Hardwood, I never burnt soft wood.
Jack


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## hockeypuck (Sep 13, 2006)

*I have now looked at both*

I saw a CB in operation and was impressed except when the door was opened, there was alot of blow back, smoke was billowing out of the door. I am torn. I like the wood master better but like the CB dealer more. Torn..... I guess I will have to think about it.http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/banghead.gif
:bang:

Puck


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## MS-310 (Sep 14, 2006)

Dealer service is really what helps out alot, go with a good dealer.
Jack


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## windthrown (Sep 27, 2006)

*We love our Central Boiler!*

We bought a Central Boiler about a year ago and I installed it late last fall. So far it has worked great. We save about $200 a month in fall/winter in electric heating bills. I see $100 bills when I load the firebox with wood. This system will pay for itself in less than 6 years of use here in central west Oregon. We can also set the thermostat to any temp that we want, and stay warm and comfy all winter in any weather.

I looked at several outdoor wood boilers before we decided on the CB 4436. Taylor, Woodmaster and CB were the most commonly recommended by local
plumbers and energy contractors. The CB has a great warantee (25 years) is made of thick steel, and they are available through a local dealer near here. CB has been around for a while, and many others have not or are no longer in biz. They also have smaller systems that better matched our needs. Post-sales support has been good from both the local rep and the factory. Calling the factory is a breeze and you get to talk to someone that knows a lot and actually speaks English! 

I installed our system to heat our pre-existing solar pre-heated domestic hot water and hydronic floor heating. The boiler loop goes through two flat plate
heat exchangers; the first on the water heater and the second for the pressurized floor loop. The floor loop has a separate pump and the water heater works by simple convection. We burned about 3 cords last winter, starting in early January in a cold Oregon winter. OK, cold here is 15 degrees, and nothing compared to New England or the upper midwest... but it is still cold for us! 

As for wood types, I have burned lots of woods in there, as we have a lot of species here... light woods: Grand fir, cottonwood, willow; medium woods: Boxelder maple, apple, plum, doug fir, alder, hazelnut; heavy woods; white and black oak, black walnut, madrone, bigleaf maple. Hardwoods put out a lot less creosote than do firs and pines, but that is not a big issue. I just scrape down the sides of the boiler and the creosote burns off. I have also burned old urnature, scrap wood, sawdust, wet rotted wood, green wood, bruch, and
cardboard. Just about anything other than garbage and treated wood (or plywood/strandboard). It also burns LARGE logs... which means less cutting and all but no splitting for me. 

As for some potential faults or features mentioned here about CB; the smoke does pour out from the door is if the damper has been closed. This is because the firebox is designed to trap heat (and smoke) at the top of the burn area. Open the door and you release the heat and smoke with it. I found that if I crack the door open for a minute while I fetch a log to throw in there the smoke will vent out the stack and not hit me in the face when I open the door wider. Some people fault the mild steel option and recommend stainless steel. I think stainless steel is not needed. The rep talked us out of the stainless option, and he was right. After a year there is no rust in the firebox, and the corrosion inhibitor on the water side should keep any rust from occuring. Stainless is $1,000 more, and it does not transfer heat as well as mild steel does. I have also found that the natural draft is more than enough to create an inferno in the firebox without a forced air fan, so I do not see why anyone would need the forced draft option. When the damper is closed on our CB, I hardly notice any smoke and sometimes I have to peek inside to see if the fire is still going... and when the damper is open, it puts out less smoke than our fireplace does. Smoke seems to be the big political beef with these systems... and there tends to be a lot of disinformation about them floating around out there. Especially from some political yahoos in the Northeast. 

Well, that's my take on the CB anyway. As someone else said here, most people become feircely brand loyal after taking ownership of an outdoor wood boiler. With good reason. The better ones work very well for the most part. :hmm3grin2orange


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## northernmover (Oct 2, 2006)

Go with the Central Boiler....you won't regret it!


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## kalib stock (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a Taylor T-500CB its going on it's seventh year! No problems with it. Its has more than paid for itself, as far as the the care of it goes you drain the water jacket ounce a year and put two Quarts of chemical and a Anode rod in it and you're good! I've seen a LOT of them that are from 15 to 30 years old that still work great! God luck with your purchase! Kalib


hockeypuck said:


> I have narrowed it down to these two wood boilers. I am trying to choose between forced draft and convention draft and also trying to figure out if the foam insulation is good or bad. I have have heard that the foam could cause the steel water jacket to rust out sooner than the fiberglass bats.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> ...


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 16, 2009)

My CB5036:


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## Penguins87 (Jan 16, 2009)

We installed a Woodmaster 3300 on December 3, 2008. We live in northeast PA (Harvey's Lake area) We heat 1250 sq. ft. to 74* and my domestic hot water. I load it 3/4 full twice a day with mainly cherry, ash and hickory (I'm into the hickory now just at the right time. -7 this morning). I've burned about a full cord and a half so far. We love it. Very simple to operate. I too considered CB but more expensive and didn't like the wavy baffles in the top of the fire box. They looked like an area that wouldn't get good flow and sediment from our water would settle in there and shorten the llife of the boiler. Liked their Thermopex underground pex though. I install a brand very similar to that (100 ft x $11.56 ft.) and I have no snow melting on the ground above it. Also very little creosote.
John


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## cfabe (Jan 16, 2009)

I've got a woodmaster 4400, it came with the house so I didn't make the decision but I'm very pleased with it. Only problem I have had was I had to replace the level sensor for the water level light, which was easy to get at because I could pull off the siding and push the insulation aside. The part was $80 which seemed a little expensive. I have not seen a CB in action but I am sure both companies make a quality boiler. I would think the forced draft models would smoke less. Once mine gets going there is no or very little visible smoke at all. It only smokes the first cycle after loading or for a few seconds at the beginnign of the cycle.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 16, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Stainless is $1,000 more, and it does not transfer heat as well as mild steel does.
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange



I would disagree with that statement. I work alot with stainless and this becomes REAL evident when welding on it as it transfers VERY quickly compared to mild steel. Did your salesman tell you that?

I have a SS CB and am very happy with other that the ash removal. I made up an auger so it's not bad now but they should come up with something to make it easy. I've had it 6 years now with no problems. -20 degrees here today before windchill and it's keeping up fine. Heating 1800 sq ft 2 story house with full basement, 1800 sq ft attached garage and domestic hot water. Using 9 - 15 cord depending on Winter and wood quality. Wood is indoor stored and seasoned but we cut whatever falls or needs to be removed no matter the species. 

I researched them as well and either of your choices will be fine. Dealer location IS critical as if something goes wrong in the dead of Winter waiting 3 days for a part is not a good thing


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## abohac (Jan 16, 2009)

*Woodmaster makes a very good product.*

Between my dad, myself and my neighbors, we have 6 Woodmaster stoves of various sizes. The oldest being 7 years old. They have been great. No Porblems. I personnally would not buy a stove without the forced air fan (in the back and the front). If CB offers that as an option and you like that one, buy it it (I have never heard a bad word about CB). I'm just letting you know that we have had no problems. I also like to throw some big junks of wood in when the fire is down and know that it is going to go (with the forced air fan blowing air right into you fire box). Good luck. You'll like whatever you buy (of those two products).


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## Marklambert61 (Jan 16, 2009)

*Heatmor stove*

You should really check out heatmor before you buy.

Non of the systems your looking at have the features you will most need over the long haul

1. Expansion balder.... eliminates the need to add water and you wont be continually adding hard untreated water to your system.

2. Open bottom fire box heatmor uses sand under the fire to temporally absorb moisture from the wood the is given off during off cycles. This will greatly extend stove life.

4.Stainless Stainless Stainless...Not 304 but 409!

Mark

Not a heatmor dealer


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## Mister Twister (Jan 16, 2009)

I like my CB installed it in fall 08. I don't see any need for forced draft I burn mixed wood and have not had a problem burning any of it.(White Birch, Pine, Popple, Boxelder, Ash, Beech, Oak, Hickory, Butternut, Black Walnut. My goal was to save as much on utility costs as possible and running extra fans would not help me acheive that. There are a lot of nice units out there and it's a tough decision. I am sure you will be happy with any OWB. Good luck with your purchase.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 16, 2009)

Marklambert61 said:


> You should really check out heatmor before you buy.
> 
> Non of the systems your looking at have the features you will most need over the long haul
> 
> ...



Was wondering about point 1. I've had mine (SCL5648SB CB) for 6 years and have not put any water in it since the original fill. I check it about 3 times a season but no movement in level. Is it common to have to add water all the time? I'm running my water temp at 177 - 185 if that makes a difference. I guess it safe to say I don't have any leaks


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## jcappe (Jan 16, 2009)

I haven't had to add to mine at all this year, talked to a guy that lives in the same area as me and he adds a couple of gallons a month? Same OWB as I have.


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## Slick (Jan 16, 2009)

My CB dealer said about 5 gallons a year is nothing to worry about, said usually at the beginning of the burning season and that's from checking the water level every day like they say to...when you purge out the water level sight glass (so it doesn't freeze) you drip out a few onces.


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## blakey (Jan 16, 2009)

I top my Central Boiler up with soft water every 2 or 3 yrs, doesn't take much. I don't have a forced draft either, works very well without and less to wear out in my opinion. I am very happy with this unit, this is my 8th winter with it and it has been virtually trouble free. I have the 5648 mild steel model which is rated at 500,000 btu and has a dry weight of approx 2200 lbs. I am heating a 5 bedroom brick farmhouse with moderate insulation, domestic hot water also a 15'x30' shop when I am out there. I do have to remove the ashes with a shovel but it is not a big deal.


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## Mister Twister (Jan 16, 2009)

I have not had to add any to mine either nor has a friend of mine. The only one I have heard of that you add water to all the time is the shavers.


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## flashy (Jan 16, 2009)

*I looked at both....*

...and bought the Central Boiler.

The CB seemed a little simpler. Forced draft is just another component to fail someday, and I've never needed it.

I also liked the idea of the higher water capacity, because it gives more reserve heat capacity if the fire gets low.

Foam insulation sheds water in case of overfill and has more R value.

I didn't like how the WoodMaster vented smoke directly out of the highest point of the fire chamber. That's also where the most heat is. I like the big baffle in the CB. More heat is pulled out before the smoke is vented.


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## cleanburn (Jan 16, 2009)

Marklambert61 said:


> You should really check out heatmor before you buy.
> 
> Non of the systems your looking at have the features you will most need over the long haul
> 
> ...



:agree2: and you forgot to add the ash auger that is much easier than shoveling the ashes out


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## Scootermsp (Jan 16, 2009)

*CB Ash*

It really isn't a bother to shovel out ash once a month. I too enjoy the simplicity of the natural draft. It has only 1 moving part, the damper solenoid. I have a brand new one in the box in reserve ($25). I also have the controller unit (from Dwyer Instruments $55). With my luck these will only fail on a Sunday in February in a blizzard....that's just the way things happen. The bottom line is if you like your brand, you are happy, and it works for you. I never looked at any other brand other than CB so I cannot speak for or against other brands.  to the OWB brotherhood!


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## mimilkman1 (Jan 16, 2009)

Scootermsp said:


> It really isn't a bother to shovel out ash once a month. I too enjoy the simplicity of the natural draft. It has only 1 moving part, the damper solenoid. I have a brand new one in the box in reserve ($25). I also have the controller unit (from Dwyer Instruments $55). With my luck these will only fail on a Sunday in February in a blizzard....that's just the way things happen. The bottom line is if you like your brand, you are happy, and it works for you. I never looked at any other brand other than CB so I cannot speak for or against other brands.  to the OWB brotherhood!



 to that my friend! I have had to add water to mine only because of boil over. A few times last year I had a piece of coal get stuck in the damper and it boiled over, but other than that I lose no water. 

I am only heating 1100 sq ft but VERY inefficient single wide mobile home (realestate talk for trailer) and I see no need for a forced draft for my needs. The people that have it wouldn't want to be without it so to each his own. I agree with Scootermsp in keeping it as simple as possible with as few things to malfunction as possible.

Kyle


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## Blazin (Jan 16, 2009)

Central Boiler all the way!!!! I'm on year #4 with my 5648 and no problems other than a damper soleniod (It's an electrical part..one never knows when they're gonna chit the bed). NO fan forced draft, don't need it! I'm a firm believer that the fan forced draft blows the heat out of the boiler. Gotta shovel the ashes out...big deal. Open the door and load it, the old set it and forget it! Grates, augers, blower fans.... To many moving parts and stuff to burn out for me! 

Too bad they did'nt let you test drive all these different units!


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## LTREES (Jan 16, 2009)

Blazin said:


> Central Boiler all the way!!!! I'm on year #4 with my 5648 and no problems other than a damper soleniod (It's an electrical part..one never knows when they're gonna chit the bed). NO fan forced draft, don't need it! I'm a firm believer that the fan forced draft blows the heat out of the boiler. Gotta shovel the ashes out...big deal. Open the door and load it, the old set it and forget it! Grates, augers, blower fans.... To many moving parts and stuff to burn out for me!
> 
> Too bad they did'nt let you test drive all these different units!



:agree2: 

Shoveled ash out today, no big deal, no unbearable heat, on big mess, 1 galvanized can with lid.

LT... 

PS I love my CB !!!


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## modn (Jan 16, 2009)

Obviously you will not get the most un-biased review on a public forum. Everyone for the most part agrees they have bought the better mouse trap. There are many more than just 2 that are good. You are just lucky to have it narrowed down to just 2. If you can see them in person and running that would be a better way to decide. Which one has the better dealer? This also plays a big part in deciding. This thread will go round and round beating it into the ground why one is better than the other, that's my guess anyway.

By the way is the best truck Ford, Chevy, or Dodge????


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## Blazin (Jan 17, 2009)

modn said:


> Obviously you will not get the most un-biased review on a public forum. Everyone for the most part agrees they have bought the better mouse trap. There are many more than just 2 that are good. You are just lucky to have it narrowed down to just 2. If you can see them in person and running that would be a better way to decide. Which one has the better dealer? This also plays a big part in deciding. This thread will go round and round beating it into the ground why one is better than the other, that's my guess anyway.
> 
> By the way is the best truck Ford, Chevy, or Dodge????



*CHEVY*
How's that for un-biased? :hmm3grin2orange: 

They're all good when they work.... and they're all junk when they don't! I agree a knowledgeable, helpfull, and honest dealer is a big factor in deciding. Find a dealer that has one running at his own shop or home for a first hand look see. 
For the record I am in no way shape or form bashing another boiler manufacturer... there are alot of good ones out there, just givin up some personal experience with the one I own. 
There's alot of guys out there that will tell you their unit is the best thing since sliced bread, but fail to leave out minor details and be truthfull bout the problems and amount of wood they burn in fear of looking like a fool for the purchase they made.


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## nymurphy (Jan 6, 2010)

I've owned a woodmaster boiler that was a wood burner for 10 years the tank rotted out because of insulation getting wet from leak around the vent pipe. that was the only trouble i had with it . I now have a woodmaster 900 corn burner and woodmaster has failed big time on this stove it isn't worth the metal it was made out of. I've look at central boilers they have alot of good ideas spray on insulation won't soak water in to it . they are better protected against mice getting into them. The simpler they are the better they are. You need a low water light, water temp read out and you do need a blower motor if you think its going to blow the heat out of it ,it's designed wrong


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## mimilkman1 (Jan 6, 2010)

It's not designed wrong, it is just designed to run without a blower. CBs don't need them, except for the largest model.

Kyle


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## 603doug (Jan 6, 2010)

New Hampshire passed the epa phase emission crap so do the cb boiler or wood master meet the specs?


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## HUSKYMAN (Jan 6, 2010)

603doug said:


> New Hampshire passed the epa phase emission crap so do the cb boiler or wood master meet the specs?



CB has an EPA approved model, WM does not. The CB model is over 12k just for the unit.


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## HUSKYMAN (Jan 6, 2010)

mimilkman1 said:


> It's not designed wrong, it is just designed to run without a blower. CBs don't need them, except for the largest model.
> 
> Kyle



The reason for a fan is to bring the unit up to a clean burn faster. A CB will smoke for a lot longer when the unit first kicks on than a WM for the simple reason that it takes longer to get the fire going again. Only a big deal if you have close neighbors. 

A unit without a fan will use less electricity and has fewer parts to break. The fan motors are not that expensive however


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## milkie62 (Jan 7, 2010)

I have a CB CL40 which is now a 6048.Had it since 1995.Absolutely no problems with it.I clean it right out in the spring and give it a spray with old motor oil.My chimney is still solid except for the insulated flashing which is no big deal.I will have to replace the underground piping since I have the old style blue foam duct taped around the pipe.It is 18" down and still melts all the snow on top of the ground.But the furnace is great.I heat 2600 sq ft with have of that being 22' cathedral ceilings so I am closer to 4000 sq ft.I also heat my hot water with it.I use about 9 cord of mixed pine and poplar with very little real hardwood.It takes me 3 full weekends in October to get ready.I figure I am saving about $3k per year on heat bills.I have no other backup except more wood.I never installed oil or gas furnace when i built my house.So as you can see I am full wood all the time.Very happy with the furnace overall.


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## mybowtie (Jan 7, 2010)

I have a WM dealer very close to me, so thats what I choose. I know several people within 5 miles of me that run WM. Brothers is 7 yrs old without a issue. His neighbors CB is at least 10 yrs with no issues.
Both are great units. You will be happy with either one.


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## gwiley (Jan 7, 2010)

*Cb5036*

I have a CB5036, heat 3700sf with a 17' high ceiling in one room and 10 1/2ft ceilings on first floor (lots of dead space to heat). Went from $5000/season in LP to $0. Averaging 10 cords/season I think (tough to estimate since I always end up scavenging during the winter).

Go forced draft - it is cheap but I believe gives me a better burn cycle, especially with less well seasoned wood. The smoke clears a lot earlier in the cycle with the forced draft.

A good dealer that knows to stock spare parts for the serviceable items should be a big factor in the decision. My CB dealer keeps spares and even has some friends in a nearby town serve as an alternate point of supply for those parts.


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## mimilkman1 (Jan 7, 2010)

HUSKYMAN said:


> The reason for a fan is to bring the unit up to a clean burn faster. A CB will smoke for a lot longer when the unit first kicks on than a WM for the simple reason that it takes longer to get the fire going again. Only a big deal if you have close neighbors.
> 
> A unit without a fan will use less electricity and has fewer parts to break. The fan motors are not that expensive however



Also with the CB design a lot more heat will blow out the chimney with a blower fan.

Kyle


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## tmanmi (Jan 7, 2010)

I am satisfied with my CB 6048, second year in operation. Heating 2300 sqft 2 story house with forced air. Only fill once a day unless temp gets below 15 then only a couple of pieces in the morning to get through the day. Haven't had to add water yet. Clean ashes about once a month, just drive loader up close to door and shovel over. It does bellow smoke out the door a bit.

I also have a rental house with a Heatmor 200. Seriously thinking about replacing it with a CB. Firebox and door are small. If you burn any type of wood that is not totally seasoned the "smoke chamber" and stack will plug up resulting poor burn and creosote will run onto the blower motor gumming it up. I think I fixed that problem by getting tenant to burn more seasoned wood but it still needs to be cleaned out every couple of months. Ash auger really isn't that great of a feature. You have to bend over take the cover off and put the auger in, not that fun in cold temps. You also still have to do something with the ashes once they are out. The rubber hoses that go to the door have got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen, no shut off. Try replacing those with 160 degree water running through them.

Sorry to ramble on about Heatmor.


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## Scootermsp (Jan 7, 2010)

Second full season with CB 5036. I died and went to heaven. I love everything about it! I love busting my chops doing 12-14 cords a year myself. Between that and 4-5 days a week at the gym, I am in the best shape of my life. The savings in oil pays the entire tuitions of my 2 children. With three females in the house it really gives me a great excuse to go outside and enjoy my property. I NEVER looked at any other makes besides CB. I have at least a half dozen friends (all CB owners) with many years under their belts and all had not one complaint. I have none as well. Besides, my Husqvarna dealer loves locals with CAD!


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## Blazin (Jan 7, 2010)

mimilkman1 said:


> Also with the CB design a lot more heat will blow out the chimney with a blower fan.
> 
> Kyle



Aaah yeah...10-4!!! sooner or later they'll learn bout that!


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## Scootermsp (Jan 7, 2010)

I like my natural draft. No need for any "friggin with the riggin".


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## builder1101 (Jan 7, 2010)

my current home made has a blower...i'm not too impressed....alot of heat floats out the chimeny, i got it choked down with some plenum tape just enough to 'fluff' the coals, but it's still isn't to my satisfaction. acutally the unit is so small i disconnected the solenoid so it draws constantly, but have the blower kick on when temp drops too far. Burns less eletric.

solenoid - 5 amp
blower - 0.74 amp



my next projecft is going to have a massive draft (3" tall by 3ft wide, the entire door) that i can control in thirds with pins, and have a 12 or 16" chimney for good draw....


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## NRwooduser (Jan 7, 2010)

I have a taylor, but I would love to be able to afford a garn. Check out this video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIBj6gLqy8k


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## Mister Twister (Jan 7, 2010)

Pretty cool but I see a couple of drwbacks to the garn. 2000 gallons of water.... Starting a fire each day instead of leaving it burn. I only add wood once a day also and it is not a wheelbarrow full. But I am not heating 5000 sq ft. either. That is great on wood actually.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 8, 2010)

Having to maintain massive amounts of water storage is the major drawback to any gasifier IMO...


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## oneoldbanjo (Jan 8, 2010)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I would disagree with that statement. I work alot with stainless and this becomes REAL evident when welding on it as it transfers VERY quickly compared to mild steel. Did your salesman tell you that?



I don't know about welding.....but for the transfer of heat stainless steel is not as good as plain steel. Lots of OWB makers make that claim in their sales pitch - but it is a fact. I have dusted off my heat transfer book I had in college, and the (k) value for heat transfer for water is 0.6, for oils it is 0.1 - 0.21, for stainless steel it is 12.1 to 45, for stainless steel it is 12.1 -45 depending on the type of stainless, for aluminum it is 120-180, and for copper it is 401. The higher the (k) number the faster the material will absorb and transfer heat, and I listed the above numbers just as an example of the different rates to show why stainless, aluminum and copper are used for cooking - and it is also true that the higher the (k) value the better it conducts electricity as well.

The good thing about stainless is that it won't rust - but it is not as good as mild steel at transferring heat from the fire to the water.


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## TFPace (Jan 8, 2010)

NRwooduser said:


> but I would love to be able to afford a garn.



NRwooduser, you ain't just kidding! I thought I knew all the stoves being produced in the USA. 'Never heard of this piece. Where do they advertise?

Has anyone looked into the cost of these monsters? Without question, this a slick stove!


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## builder1101 (Jan 9, 2010)

TFPace said:


> NRwooduser, you ain't just kidding! I thought I knew all the stoves being produced in the USA. 'Never heard of this piece. Where do they advertise?
> 
> Has anyone looked into the cost of these monsters? Without question, this a slick stove!



small 1500 gallon is around $13000
the monster 4400 gallon i've seen priced at $55,000
a while ago i saw a 2000 tagged at $21,000 on craigslist

that's not including the insulated *building* to put up around it...which a bit more then a shed you can scab around our tiny owb's....



they also custom build to your BTU requirments...basically their theory is to make/store BTU's like a battery...


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## J.Gordon (Jan 9, 2010)

oneoldbanjo said:


> I don't know about welding.....but for the transfer of heat stainless steel is not as good as plain steel. Lots of OWB makers make that claim in their sales pitch - but it is a fact. I have dusted off my heat transfer book I had in college, and the (k) value for heat transfer for water is 0.6, for oils it is 0.1 - 0.21, for stainless steel it is 12.1 to 45, for stainless steel it is 12.1 -45 depending on the type of stainless, for aluminum it is 120-180, and for copper it is 401. The higher the (k) number the faster the material will absorb and transfer heat, and I listed the above numbers just as an example of the different rates to show why stainless, aluminum and copper are used for cooking - and it is also true that the higher the (k) value the better it conducts electricity as well.
> 
> The good thing about stainless is that it won't rust - but it is not as good as mild steel at transferring heat from the fire to the water.




Good post! rep coming also.
http://physics.info/conduction/


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## NRwooduser (Jan 9, 2010)

I looked into buying a garn. 1,500 gallon was around 15,000.00. And we all know that it's better to have the stoves in a building. The fire burning as hard as it can go is going to produce the least smoke. The way my weather is here in NC compared to the weather up north where these units are located, I probably wouldn't have to fire that stove but every other day. I love the way the fan sucks the air around the door and everything stays good and clean and no smoking while feeding it. I built my building around my taylor and set everything up so down the road I might be able to buy a garn and hook it right up.


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## goosegunner (Jan 9, 2010)

NRwooduser said:


> I looked into buying a garn. 1,500 gallon was around 15,000.00. And we all know that it's better to have the stoves in a building. The fire burning as hard as it can go is going to produce the least smoke. The way my weather is here in NC compared to the weather up north where these units are located, I probably wouldn't have to fire that stove but every other day. I love the way the fan sucks the air around the door and everything stays good and clean and no smoking while feeding it. I built my building around my taylor and set everything up so down the road I might be able to buy a garn and hook it right up.



Have any pictures of your Taylor in the building?

gg


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## NRwooduser (Jan 11, 2010)

GG, here's some pics of the building and taylor.


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## TFPace (Jan 11, 2010)

*Taylor modifications*

NRwooduser,

It appears that you have changed the outside of your stove from original.

As far as additional water capacity that goosegunner addresses..... did you take in pictures of that modification?

Your building is first class. This will keep the neighbors at bay.


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## goosegunner (Jan 11, 2010)

NRwooduser said:


> GG, here's some pics of the building and taylor.




Hey that looks nice! I am thinking about putting mine in a small building like that. It is very windy where mine is located. It would make it nice to load and would have to reduce wood consumption some.

I can see that you are burning hotter with that deflector plate, no creosote. 

I also thought if you kept lines under frost line and came up into shed you could go away without worrying about freeze. Maybe even put in a little heater in shed set to 40 degrees.

When you added the extra water capacity did you change your supply and return locations?

Does the aquastat read the temp ok with that extra water above it?

gg


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## MarylandGuy (Jan 11, 2010)

I watched the video for the Garn unit. Do you think the round door get's too hot to touch? :biggrinbounce2:


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## NRwooduser (Jan 11, 2010)

TFPace, I didn't take pics while I was modifying the stove, I wished I had now. I built the building to match the house cause its pretty close 80 feet. 

GG, The building is nice when the wind is blowing, I didn't close it in until a couple of months ago. The stove was in the open from Jan,09. I used to fire a carolina water stove 15 years before I built this house while I was living in a mobile home and it was in the open. Got some experience on firing in the rain,wind. Didn't think I was going to have to fire a water stove after building a new tight house,, that was until the propane went over 3.00 a gallon in 07 and two chimney fires from burning a open fireplace. It's hard to stop using a water stove after having one that long. That deflector plate is a plate to deflect the smoke from coming out while feeding it. I hated the smoke coming out and smoking up the front of the stove. There's a plate inside of the firebox just below the tubes to make the fire burn alittle hotter and keep some of the ashes from going down the tubes. When I added the extra water I did change the supply outlets and the over flow tube. I put a water site tube in the back too. I didn't change the returns. The aquastat does great, I think it does better with alot of water over it. It's not setting in the top hottest part of the water. I do think the building helps with the wood consumption. For right now I didn't insulate it, I wanted to see how the building does with out insulation.


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## hardy steve (Jan 11, 2010)

What about ash doors on the CB's how do you clean the ashes out.


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## mimilkman1 (Jan 11, 2010)

I usually take a Saturday morning when the wood is burned down to coals, just move the coals over to one side while I shovel the other side and repeat. Takes me about 10 minutes or so.

Kyle


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 11, 2010)

I've had my Woodmaster 4400 w/ this being the 5th burning season. Very happy with it. My final decision was btw CB and WM...WM won out based on I liked the dealer much better.
Good luck bet you'll be happy w/ either.


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## Blazin (Jan 12, 2010)

mimilkman1 said:


> I usually take a Saturday morning when the wood is burned down to coals, just move the coals over to one side while I shovel the other side and repeat. Takes me about 10 minutes or so.
> 
> Kyle



:agree2: Same here once a month.


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## tmanmi (Jan 12, 2010)

hardy steve said:


> What about ash doors on the CB's how do you clean the ashes out.



Ashes come out through the same door that you load the fire box with. The CB doesn't have any grates in the bottom, just flat steel. I suppose if you wanted to be really lazy you could keep pushing the ashes to the back and get a couple of months before cleaning them out. The door is large enough that you can get a scoop shovel in to clean the ashes out. I clean mine out every 4-6 weeks.


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## gwiley (Jan 12, 2010)

hardy steve said:


> What about ash doors on the CB's how do you clean the ashes out.



One of things I like about the CB is that the door and burn chamber is large enough to allow me to load anything I can lift. This means that crotches and gnarly rounds just go in with no splitting as part of an overnight burn.

No ash door leaves more room for the main door - ashes easily scoop out with a flat shovel (supplied with my furnace). No grates to corrode or decay or fool with.


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## iowaowb (Jan 12, 2010)

We have a woodmaster 5500. Last four years have been heating 4400 sq ft house plus 700 garage and domestic hot water. We had no problem heating the house.This year we added a 1700 sq ft pole building. We had some problems until I raised the water temperature. It will heat everything however have increased wood usage by at least a third but the last three weeks have been below normal. We have been very happy with the woodmaster. Our neighbors around us are about 50/50 WM, or CB and everybody seems to be close to the same wood usage per sq footage (using good wood) and happy with there individual owb.


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 15, 2010)

If you go w/ Woodmaster I wouldn't invest in the ash auger. Everything I hear they dont' work worth a darn. Mine I just shovel out no grates or anything to mess w/.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 15, 2010)

gwiley said:


> One of things I like about the CB is that the door and burn chamber is large enough to allow me to load anything I can lift. This means that crotches and gnarly rounds just go in with no splitting as part of an overnight burn.
> 
> No ash door leaves more room for the main door - ashes easily scoop out with a flat shovel (supplied with my furnace). No grates to corrode or decay or fool with.




I'm jealous!...didn't get a shovel with mine....a mud hoes works good too for raking the ash to the door.


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## SergeantG (Jan 19, 2010)

*Owb*

I've had a CL 4030 since '03 and am very satisfied with it. My dealer cut me a $500.00 break on the price since I helped him install it and trenched the water lines in myself. It keeps up pretty good even when the temps are below zero. It might have been a little chilly in the house, but if a person dresses like it's winter instead of summer, it's not bad at all. I keep telling my daughter that but she won't listen, she dresses like it's 90 degrees out and complains that it's cold. Also what's kind of funny is that if the fire dies down when I'm not home, the kids always would turn up the thermostat and wrap up in a blanket. They can't make the connection that if there is no fire in the furnace there's no heat in the house unless ( heaven forbid! ) they actually go outside and put some wood in the furnace!


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## gwiley (Jan 20, 2010)

SergeantG said:


> Also what's kind of funny is that if the fire dies down when I'm not home, the kids always would turn up the thermostat and wrap up in a blanket. They can't make the connection that if there is no fire in the furnace there's no heat in the house unless ( heaven forbid! ) they actually go outside and put some wood in the furnace!



I am on the road 3 days a week so I trained my boys to tend the furnace. The only rule is - Mom NEVER gets a cold shower. I told them that I had better NEVER hear that she had to have a cold shower.

They do a great job, so far this year I have only had 1 incident - very angry wife calling, putting boys on the phone to explain why the CB temp was at 120degF.


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## SergeantG (Jan 20, 2010)

Every so often I have to go away for my Army Reserve job, so I had to teach my wife how to take care of the owb. She's never had a problem except for forgetting to wait a few seconds before opening the door all of the way and almost singed the eye brows off of the granddaughter. That's a characteristic of central boiler units, sometimes if you don't crack the door and give it a few seconds to flame up before opening it all the way flames will come out at you.


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## headleyj (Feb 3, 2010)

SergeantG said:


> Every so often I have to go away for my Army Reserve job, so I had to teach my wife how to take care of the owb. She's never had a problem except for forgetting to wait a few seconds before opening the door all of the way and almost singed the eye brows off of the granddaughter. That's a characteristic of central boiler units, sometimes if you don't crack the door and give it a few seconds to flame up before opening it all the way flames will come out at you.



I've never met a boiler that doesn't do that  My Shaver si that was as is my BIL's Hardy


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## milkie62 (Feb 3, 2010)

I love my CB CL40.It has been trouble free for 14 yrs.I have the old style pex though that was encased in blue foam that you ducted taped around.It is 18" deep and with the ground temp at 0 degrees the ground is still thawed.So I guess I will have to eventually dig it up and replace the pex tubing.

But down the road I will have to install a oil furnace in the house as I get older and may want to travel in the winter.Then I will go back to a nice woodstove in the basement so that I do not have to go out in the cold.


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## brushfire (Nov 1, 2010)

*WoodMaster Is Way to Go*

I'm a property manager and my employers have a Central Boiler wood furnace. I have a WoodMaster 4400. The WoodMaster is far better in my opinion as you don't get the nasty smoke and superheated air blowing back in your face when you open the door. The other problem with Central Boilers is the non-blower firebox aspiration. Not only does the smoke blow back in your face, I've also had times when the wood was just smoldering and not burning. The WoodMaster uses a forced air blower which allows you to use greener or wetter wood if need be. 

Also, whatever stove you decide on, make sure you check out the dealer. A bad dealer with a poor customer service attitude after installation can make your life miserable.


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## Putter (Nov 1, 2010)

New to the site but thought I would jump in here.
I was down to the same choice and decided on the CB because of the dual fuel option. Just in case we go out of town the gas will keep things hot. Also there is a clean start setting that fires the gas for 5 min to get the fire going if you let it go right out. I am out of town a lot and wanted to keep it as simple as possible for the better half. So far I love it. No need for a fan in my opinion. Sounds like you should be happy either way.


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## milkie62 (Nov 1, 2010)

Been using mine since 1996.Never an issue,never a breakdown.I have used some pretty wet poplar mixed in with the pine I mostly use.I do get some smoke on initial door opening but would never trade my CB 40 for another brand.


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## mhyme71 (Nov 2, 2010)

2nd full year with cb5036 never had a problem other than my crappy copper sweating skills. burning pine for the last 3 weeks from local amish sawmill. The central boiler is nice because of simplicity. the blower fan i believe is unnecessary. the wood will smoulder when the fire isnt suppose to burn but give it 2 mins after the damper opens and it is a raging fire. This time of year in ohio it isnt the coldest outside so the damper may only open once every 2 hours or so and the wood might smoulder a little bit more then when it is colder. in the colder winter months smoke is not a problem. The only things i dont like about my 5036 is the way you need to leave the door open for a minute to let the smoke out if it, if it isn't in a burn cycle and the fact that the door opens to the left. i wish it would open towards the right where the plumbing and electrical service is because the service door is on the right to the plumbing so naturally you stack your wood on the left well you have to walk around the door to get wood. not a big deal but i would have definately done it the other way. overall i would give it a 8.5 out of 10


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## STLfirewood (Nov 2, 2010)

I have a CL40 also. I think it works great. I haven't had it very long. It does throw some smoke in your face when you open the door. Also they do make a forced draft upgrade for the vent. I don't see where a person would really need it if your boiler is sized correctly.

Scott


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## MNGuns (Nov 2, 2010)

brushfire said:


> I'm a property manager and my employers have a Central Boiler wood furnace. I have a WoodMaster 4400. The WoodMaster is far better in my opinion as you don't get the nasty smoke and superheated air blowing back in your face when you open the door. The other problem with Central Boilers is the non-blower firebox aspiration. Not only does the smoke blow back in your face, I've also had times when the wood was just smoldering and not burning. The WoodMaster uses a forced air blower which allows you to use greener or wetter wood if need be.
> 
> Also, whatever stove you decide on, make sure you check out the dealer. A bad dealer with a poor customer service attitude after installation can make your life miserable.



Burning green or wet wood in a boiler, stove, fireplace, or even pit is frowned upon to say the least. It is the "feed it anything" mentaility that gave wood boilers a bad name. Properly seasoned, dry wood, is the ONLY thing that should be put in the boiler.


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## milkie62 (Nov 2, 2010)

The central boilers are simple as hell.Why would you need anything else ?No need for fans,blowers ,augers.Use the KISS method like they do. Proud CL40 user.


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## Blazin (Nov 3, 2010)

:agree2: There it is in a nutshell!


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## atwork76 (Nov 18, 2010)

We are looking at getting a wood boiler and are looking at the heatmor 200 CSS. Noticed the water capacity was only 114 gallons to the 393 that the CB 6048 has. It says it will heat 5000 sq. feet, but so does the CB 6048. 

So is the way lower water capacity going to hurt us? 
Also noticed it has forced draft, was reading that some of you guys like it and some dont think it's neccessary. I take it that it must be used for this particular wood boiler to work properly?
What's some of your guys' burn times burning hard woods at 0-15 degrees heating a medium insulated 4000 sq. foot house?


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## milkie62 (Nov 18, 2010)

My burn time is roughly 12 hrs with pine and poplar,no hardwood.My house is 2600 sq ft.But I had forgotten that half of my house has 20 ft ceilings so another 600 sq ft of heating has to be added.I check it at 7 am and 6 pm.I burn about 9 cord of pine and poplar unseasoned.If I were to use hardwood I could probably do it with a couple less cords.


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## barkeatr (Nov 18, 2010)

I HAVE a five year old central boiler. My pan is showing quite a bit of rust and the blowback when you open the door is really bad. I am putting on a serious mask now as i think its could be come a health issue...yes, i open the door a crack first..that doesnt do crap. 

i did install a chimney booster that i switch on when i opend the door. this helps with maybe 20% of smoke. 

i love owb and cut 30 face cords a year...but the CB is bad design.


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## brushfire (Nov 18, 2010)

atwork76 said:


> We are looking at getting a wood boiler and are looking at the heatmor 200 CSS. Noticed the water capacity was only 114 gallons to the 393 that the CB 6048 has. It says it will heat 5000 sq. feet, but so does the CB 6048.
> 
> So is the way lower water capacity going to hurt us?
> Also noticed it has forced draft, was reading that some of you guys like it and some don't think it's necessary. I take it that it must be used for this particular wood boiler to work properly?
> What's some of your guys' burn times burning hard woods at 0-15 degrees heating a medium insulated 4000 sq. foot house?



Lower water capacity will not hurt you. Your system should be set up with a plate heat exchanger between your indoor heating system and your outdoor boiler anyway so water capacity isn't an issue. One thing to remember especially in very cold climates is that more water capacity requires more heat to keep it within setpoint temperature ranges. The more water you have to heat, the more wood you will have to cut. As I mentioned in my 11-1 post, during the heating season I'm working with a Central Boiler and a WoodMaster every day. The CB has smoke blowback-in-your-face issues and I've also discovered that the system for adjusting the door is a real pain after a new door rope gasket starts to compress. If you don't get both the top and bottom the door adjusters set just right you will have air leaks. A small air leak will overheat the stove and waste wood.

You have to decide what is best for you. I was fortunate to be able to work with the CB and discover some of its shortcomings which is why I ended up going with the WM. After two years of working with both, I'm happy with my WoodMaster.

Be sure to check out the dealer before you buy, and don't depend on the BBB. A recent report on TV has revealed that companies with bad service, etc. have been able to buy their way to an A+ rating. Take the time to talk to wood furnace owners in your area and find out how the dealer treated them service-wise during and after install. If you see a furnace you're interested in by a home, stop and knock on their door and ask them if they wouldn't mind if you ask them a few questions about their stove and the dealer who installed it. Most people are more than happy to discuss it with you.


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## atwork76 (Nov 18, 2010)

That's for the info brushfire.

A friend of ours got the heatmor 200 CSS and the dealer just installed it Wednesday. Will see if he has any problems the first couple weeks and how the dealer is if he does. My father talked to the dealer and said he didn't talk like he was trying to sell you a wood boiler.


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## mtfallsmikey (Nov 19, 2010)

atwork76 said:


> We are looking at getting a wood boiler and are looking at the heatmor 200 CSS. Noticed the water capacity was only 114 gallons to the 393 that the CB 6048 has. It says it will heat 5000 sq. feet, but so does the CB 6048.
> 
> So is the way lower water capacity going to hurt us?
> Also noticed it has forced draft, was reading that some of you guys like it and some dont think it's neccessary. I take it that it must be used for this particular wood boiler to work properly?
> What's some of your guys' burn times burning hard woods at 0-15 degrees heating a medium insulated 4000 sq. foot house?



Don't fall into the "this boiler will heat xxxx square ft!" deal.... Need to do a proper heat loss calc. to size it right. Currently, I have 2 - 56K BTU HX's running off my 5036, heating a total of 2000 S.F, shop and the house, and it keeps up fabulously...And, do your piping using the primary-secondary method. Yes, a 6048 will suck up a serious amount of wood. It's almost too big for an average size house alone.


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## atwork76 (Nov 19, 2010)

Do you guys know if the heatmor 200 CSS would qualify for the $1500 tax credit?


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## NJChris (Nov 19, 2010)

I have a CB 6048 and love it. Yes it does eat a lot of wood. I have never once had a problem opening the door and any smoke or heat coming out at all.


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## milkie62 (Nov 20, 2010)

*CB is tops in my book*

My CL 40 which is probably and older version of the 6048.I have a little bit of smoke but nothing to worry about.Maybe your wood is to close to the door.I can put in about a 50" piece of wood but generally only use 24" pieces.My CB is simple in design and I do not think they have changed that much in all the years.I only have to clean mine twice during the season and then when I shut it down for the season.I have yet to burn seasoned hardwood in mine since I have so much blocked up pine and poplar available to me for free.Hopefullyone of these years I can burn a season of split and dried hardwood for comparison.The burn times are way over inflated IMO.If I chucked it full during the winter I might get 20 hrs out of it,maybe.But then again the type of wood I use needs to be considered.Like I have said I fill mine at 7 am when I get home from work and top it off at 6 pm before I take my nap before work.The CB is my only heat source since 1995.So going on 15 yrs of trouble free service except for a few light bulbs.I would not even consider another brand with the reliabilty I have had.I had asked the dealer why they went to a cast iron door and he said because of heat warpage.My steel door after all these years is still as flat and straight as ever.He said I must be one of the few that really know how to use it.


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## atwork76 (Nov 22, 2010)

atwork76 said:


> Do you guys know if the heatmor 200 CSS would qualify for the $1500 tax credit?



Called them today and they said it doesn't.

We are still going back and forth between CB and heatmor. The heatmor dealer is great the CB dealer is about as good. The heatmor is $3000 less too..


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## headleyj (Nov 23, 2010)

atwork76 said:


> Called them today and they said it doesn't.
> 
> We are still going back and forth between CB and heatmor. The heatmor dealer is great the CB dealer is about as good. The heatmor is $3000 less too..



I can do alot with 3k


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## scag52 (Nov 23, 2010)

I would be concerned with nails getting caught in the auger of the heatmor.


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## atwork76 (Nov 23, 2010)

scag52 said:


> I would be concerned with nails getting caught in the auger of the heatmor.



Not concerned with that because we don't burn anything with nails in it.


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## forcedintoit (Nov 23, 2010)

Nails do not bother the auger, i have had this happen a couple of time where i must have burned some rounds with nails in it and it did nothing to the auger.....the auger is not built into the stove anyway. it is separate and looks a lot like a ice auger! so I do not see how a nail could bother it unless it was a railroad spike or large like that! Then it would not fall through the grate anyway............i LOVE my heatmor!


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