# Ever pay for logs or trees?



## DaltonPaull (Feb 6, 2009)

Has anyone here ever paid for a log or tree? How do you come up with the value of a log?

This walnut tree was posted on the local craigslist. The owner claims that the largest trunk is over 24" in diameter and straight for 30 feet and already has an $500 offer for the tree. Seams a little steep to me - could be quite a bit of sapwood in there.

How much would you pay (if any?)


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## deeker (Feb 6, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> Has anyone here ever paid for a log or tree? How do you come up with the value of a log?
> 
> This walnut tree was posted on the local craigslist. The owner claims that the largest trunk is over 24" in diameter and straight for 30 feet and already has an $500 offer for the tree. Seams a little steep to me - could be quite a bit of sapwood in there.
> 
> How much would you pay (if any?)



Way too steep, it is a yard tree. And he will tell you he knows for a fact their are no nails in it. BS, at best. Got dozens of band-saw blades the prove yard trees are loaded with nails. Metal detectors don't find all in logs, but the blades do.

Either firewood, or run the odds with blades. 

Good luck

Kevin


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## olyman (Feb 6, 2009)

if someones going to pay him 500 for that tree--its the day two fools met---


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## BlueRider (Feb 6, 2009)

Is the $500 offer what he will have to pay to have to tree removed? 

I have never payed gor a log and I have never dropped a tree. I get trees offered to me all the time, even walnut. At most I will offer a bit of the wood back but even then few ever take me up on the offer.


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 6, 2009)

So far I've got all my logs for free as well but very little walnut. Seams to be at a bit of a premium here in Portland - I've seen several adds on craigslist for "free removal of walnut trees" or walnut wanted etc.

Obviously a log has some value - even as firewood - but we would rather get them for free. I'm not about to compete with his $500 offer, but it would be nice to have some method to estimate what it's really worth.

BlueRider - He really told me someone is willing to pay him $500. 

How did you get so well connected to have frequent offers for free logs? I usually jut keep an eye out and reply to free wood postings on craigslist.


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## BobL (Feb 6, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> At most I will offer a bit of the wood back but even then few ever take me up on the offer.



Thats what I usually do as well.

The most I "paid for a tree" was I turned a platter/bowl and made some cheese knife handles from part of an Apricot tree for the family that gave me the tree. This involved ~half a day's work but I got a very special tree in exchange.

Cheers


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 6, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> So far I've got all my logs for free as well but very little walnut. Seams to be at a bit of a premium here in Portland - I've seen several adds on craigslist for "free removal of walnut trees" or walnut wanted etc.
> 
> Obviously a log has some value - even as firewood - but we would rather get them for free. I'm not about to compete with his $500 offer, but it would be nice to have some method to estimate what it's really worth.
> 
> ...



Talk to several tree care companies.


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## oldsaw (Feb 6, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> Has anyone here ever paid for a log or tree? How do you come up with the value of a log?
> 
> This walnut tree was posted on the local craigslist. The owner claims that the largest trunk is over 24" in diameter and straight for 30 feet and already has an $500 offer for the tree. Seams a little steep to me - could be quite a bit of sapwood in there.
> 
> How much would you pay (if any?)



I agree with the other guys, see if the $500 is the charge to take it out or what he is getting paid. As a lumber tree, there isn't much value there due to the very high probability of an off center pith in every trunk. If it was a freebie, I'd do it, but I wouldn't pay for that one. He could pay me $500 to take it out and I'd leave it with three stumps a couple of inches high and a few leaves and sticks on the ground.

Mark


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## redprospector (Feb 6, 2009)

I have to pay for log's all the time. Average price for Pine & Fir around here is about $200.00 a thousand board feet. I try to save as many from my thinning job's as I can, but the trees are getting smaller & smaller on the thinning job's.
The most I ever paid for a tree was $100.00 for a 30" DBH Native Walnut. It was already laying on the ground & limbed when I bought it, but I told him I'd buck it to the lengths I wanted when I picked it up.
I made out like a bandit on that one, Walnut's not too common around here.

There are a lot of rotten logs laying around here because people just knew that their timber was worth a lot more than it really was.

Andy


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 6, 2009)

I'd have no problem paying $100 for a 30" walnut log - I use a lot of walnut in my woodworking projects and the going rate around here is between $5-$9 a board foot - I've paid $100 for a single board before. It would be a dream come true for me to find a defunct orchard like the one BlueRider is working on. There's enough wood there to keep me going for a long time!


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## Backwood (Feb 6, 2009)

If he can get 500 bucks he should be looking no further. 

redprospector, that 200 bucks per thousand cant be in log form can it ? There are sawmills here that sell walnut for 1.75 already sawed. 

I have been lucky and got most all my walnut's for free too but "if" I had to pay for that one I am thinking 50 bucks, if he gets it on the ground. If I was going to pay top dollar I would want it to come from the middle of the woods. The probablity of metal would be much less plus the growth rings would probably be closer together.


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## redprospector (Feb 6, 2009)

Backwood said:


> If he can get 500 bucks he should be looking no further.
> 
> redprospector, that 200 bucks per thousand cant be in log form can it ? There are sawmills here that sell walnut for 1.75 already sawed.



Yep, 200.00 per thousand/.20 per bd ft. I don't know how it could be logged, and delivered for any less. I'd like to see it, but I don't see how.

If that walnut is 1.75 per bd ft, that would be $1750.00 per thousand. I don't know what the log's cost them but I bet the loggers were making more than loggers around here.

Andy


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## spankrz (Feb 6, 2009)

go there and measure the tree, how many 16 foot logs you can get that are atleast 8" on the small end. you will need to measure the whole tree up, then go home and look up the current hardwood prices... then just do the equasion to figure out how many useable board feet there are in the tree. this will give you the lumber value.


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## oldsaw (Feb 6, 2009)

spankrz said:


> go there and measure the tree, how many 16 foot logs you can get that are atleast 8" on the small end. you will need to measure the whole tree up, then go home and look up the current hardwood prices... then just do the equasion to figure out how many useable board feet there are in the tree. this will give you the lumber value.



With walnut, you have to measure the heartwood to estimate value. I figure 12" on the small end is as small as you can go to be worthwhile. That will usually get you one 6" board and a couple of 4".

Again, keep in mind that the big one might get you some lumber, but the two on the side are leaning too far over and the wood will have a lot of tension in it. Mostly firewood, and walnut is just decent for firewood.

IF I pay for a log, it's going to be a nice one.

Mark


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## Backwood (Feb 7, 2009)

redprospector said:


> Yep, 200.00 per thousand/.20 per bd ft. I don't know how it could be logged, and delivered for any less. I'd like to see it, but I don't see how.
> 
> If that walnut is 1.75 per bd ft, that would be $1750.00 per thousand. I don't know what the log's cost them but I bet the loggers were making more than loggers around here.
> 
> Andy



oops, friday night math. For some reason I was thinking 2.00 instead of .20 

200 mbf is a good deal. Cant even blame it on being drunk


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## deeker (Feb 7, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> I agree with the other guys, see if the $500 is the charge to take it out or what he is getting paid. As a lumber tree, there isn't much value there due to the very high probability of an off center pith in every trunk. If it was a freebie, I'd do it, but I wouldn't pay for that one. He could pay me $500 to take it out and I'd leave it with three stumps a couple of inches high and a few leaves and sticks on the ground.
> 
> Mark



Tension wood, is okay for small stuff. But not all the time. Picture frames and sawing for grade. The pith being off center, means trouble.

Had a guy bring a small straight walnut today for free. Will open it when the rain quits. Rings are even, might be good for small furniture.


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## Backwoods (Feb 7, 2009)

I just bought my first logs, and they were three nice Black walnut trees. The tree service charged her to take them down. I paid $200 for the lot when they were on the ground. I rented an excavator to haul them out of the back yard and to load them. A neighbor a block away flagged me down and gave me a three log maple attached to a 3,500 lb burl. Total cost including tow labors was $600. With the maple it will be about brake even in the end. The next logs I buy I will include delivery. +$200 for the logs -$400 for equipment, fuel, and labor. I have a couple of firewood cutters cards that I can hand out if they want it removed on the cheap.
I just had a customer bring me in a little over 2,000 bft of the nicest Myrtlewood that I have cut. His cost $150 in gas $300 in milling (5 hours @ $60 hr.) and a week of bed rest.(Myrtlewood is heavy)


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## carvinmark (Feb 7, 2009)

I usually buy a few saw logs but most are free. I just ordered six 12"X8' basswood logs that I will slab out for future carving projects. I do hate paying for them but it seems to be getting harder to get the free ones around here.


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## redprospector (Feb 7, 2009)

Backwood said:


> oops, friday night math. For some reason I was thinking 2.00 instead of .20
> 
> 200 mbf is a good deal. Cant even blame it on being drunk



200 mbf is a good deal if you have a market.
One of my buddies that builds log homes, and usually buy's 6x8's from me just told me that a mill in Arizona just offered to sell him 6x8's delivered to his planer mill for .45 a bd ft. I told him he should jump on that before they come to their sences.

Andy


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## Backwood (Feb 8, 2009)

yea, its somebody nearby advertising his 4/4 pine and poplar for .45bf.  and he buys his logs


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## DRB (Feb 8, 2009)

Backwood said:


> yea, its somebody nearby advertising his 4/4 pine and poplar for .45bf.  and he buys his logs



So whats the matter with that. Lumber has been trading at under $200 USD per thousand for over a year now. I guess thats why there are no stud mills open up here now. Pine has no market here even the pulp markets are starting to go down. Last pine logs I sold for $35 per cubic meter. Saw logs for pulp. I don't think I could sell pine here right now. Just my 2 cents


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## big daddio (Feb 8, 2009)

I agree with Deeker, it's bad to saw nails in free logs, terrible to pay for logs with nails as in most yard trees!


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## redprospector (Feb 8, 2009)

DRB said:


> So whats the matter with that. Lumber has been trading at under $200 USD per thousand for over a year now. I guess thats why there are no stud mills open up here now. Pine has no market here even the pulp markets are starting to go down. Last pine logs I sold for $35 per cubic meter. Saw logs for pulp. I don't think I could sell pine here right now. Just my 2 cents



What's the matter with that is the fact that I like a little meat with my bean's once in a while.
A few years ago, when diesel was $1.00 a gallon green rough cut Pine was bringing .50 a bd ft up to 8" wide, .55 a bd ft for 10" wide, and .60 a bd ft for 12" wide. Beam's brought a better price than that, and log's could be bought for 150.00 per thousand. Now fuel is 3 times the cost, my water bill is double, groceries are at least 50% higher. The numbers just don't add up to make a profit.
My equipment is all paid for, so it dosen't cost me anything unless it's running. That let's me be able to be that picky ol' fart, that's too high priced, and won't even talk to you about cutting an order unless he can make a profit. 

Andy


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## redprospector (Feb 8, 2009)

DRB said:


> So whats the matter with that. Lumber has been trading at under $200 USD per thousand for over a year now. I guess thats why there are no stud mills open up here now. Pine has no market here even the pulp markets are starting to go down. Last pine logs I sold for $35 per cubic meter. Saw logs for pulp. I don't think I could sell pine here right now. Just my 2 cents



What's the matter with that is the fact that I like a little meat with my bean's once in a while.
A few years ago, when diesel was $1.00 a gallon green rough cut Pine was bringing .50 a bd ft up to 8" wide, .55 a bd ft for 10" wide, and .60 a bd ft for 12" wide. Beam's brought a better price than that, and log's could be bought for 150.00 per thousand. Now fuel is 3 times the cost, my water bill is double, groceries are at least 50% higher. The numbers just don't add up to make a profit.
My equipment is all paid for, so it dosen't cost me anything unless it's running. That let's me be able to be that picky ol' fart, that's too high priced, and won't even talk to you about cutting an order unless he can make a profit. 

I won't mill a log that's free if I know it came from someone's yard.

Andy


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## MJR (Feb 9, 2009)

Here in NY I started playing in the state timber sales. Most of these are BIG - way out of my little hobby league. But some small ones do come up. They are a little too big or better quality to go into the home fire wood program. It is just not worth it to the big outfits. It is very common for these small sales to have zero bids. I enjoy getting the sale bid sheets every few months. It is good reading to day dream to.


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## DRB (Feb 9, 2009)

redprospector said:


> What's the matter with that is the fact that I like a little meat with my bean's once in a while.
> A few years ago, when diesel was $1.00 a gallon green rough cut Pine was bringing .50 a bd ft up to 8" wide, .55 a bd ft for 10" wide, and .60 a bd ft for 12" wide. Beam's brought a better price than that, and log's could be bought for 150.00 per thousand. Now fuel is 3 times the cost, my water bill is double, groceries are at least 50% higher. The numbers just don't add up to make a profit.
> My equipment is all paid for, so it dosen't cost me anything unless it's running. That let's me be able to be that picky ol' fart, that's too high priced, and won't even talk to you about cutting an order unless he can make a profit.
> 
> ...



The only crappy thing with that is if your machines don't move for to long there will be no bacon.

Last load of logs I sold the log truck driver made more than I did

Hopefully things will get better


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## Backwood (Feb 10, 2009)

redprospector said:


> What's the matter with that is the fact that I like a little meat with my bean's once in a while.
> 
> Andy




:agree2::agree2:

if the bacon runs out I will eat fish


The same guy just sold some 4/4 walnut to a guy I have been doing business with for a dollar a bf, now that guy expects me to sell walnut for a buck a foot, AINT gonna happen.

That said, I mean no disrespect towards the other sawer, just wish he would keep a respectable value going.


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## Backwoods (Feb 10, 2009)

Backwood said:


> The same guy just sold some 4/4 walnut to a guy I have been doing business with for a dollar a bf, now that guy expects me to sell walnut for a buck a foot, AINT gonna happen.
> 
> That said, I mean no disrespect towards the other sawer, just wish he would keep a respectable value going.



What do you consider a respectable value for green/air dried walnut in your area?


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## Zodiac45 (Feb 10, 2009)

That is not a lumber tree. Top of the line lumber and of course venier logs are always straight single stem trees. There's no way I'd pay (and I doubt he gets) $500 or anywhere near that for that 3 legged firewood tree. I'm sure there's a few boards in it but it's going to have off center pith for sure and it looks like some serious bend or tension too. You might take it for the felling but that's as far as I'd go.


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## Backwood (Feb 10, 2009)

Backwoods said:


> What do you consider a respectable value for green/air dried walnut in your area?



The way I see it, it should be worth at least two bucks green. For twenty years I have bought wood for the cabinet shop and around here walnut sold from four to six bucks a foot. Kiln drying the wood shouldnt add 400-600% to the value. At two bucks you could still carry it to the kiln and dry it and it would still be half price.

I would rather sell a small amount for a good price than a large amount for a small price.

I guess If I had a bunch of equipment payments I would have to sell it for what ever it would bring, but I have no kind of payments and I can go fishing.

I guess a lot of people are happy selling their walnut for a dollar ( especially those who sell volume ) and thats fine but I would rather build with it myself.


I wonder if I am in the minority here, would most of you guys here be happy selling your walnut for a dollar a foot ?


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## redprospector (Feb 10, 2009)

Backwood said:


> I wonder if I am in the minority here, would most of you guys here be happy selling your walnut for a dollar a foot ?



It would depend on what I had to give for the log's. I doubt I'd be happy with a buck a foot, but since there's so little walnut around here I probably won't have to worry about that.

I've gotten to the point that I don't pay much attention to the lumber market's. I figure the cost of log's to the mill + the cost of making them into lumber + a decent profit margin = the price of lumber purchased from me.

Andy


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## DaltonPaull (Feb 10, 2009)

Backwoods - I just looked at your website and it says that you will saw from your own logs or $60 an hour plus the cost of the log. Do you have walnut available? How do you determine the log cost?


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## woodshop (Feb 10, 2009)

Backwood said:


> ...I wonder if I am in the minority here, would most of you guys here be happy selling your walnut for a dollar a foot ?



Although I have, I rarely sell any of the lumber I mill, as I'm still more in the "hobby" end of things than a professional. To answer your question though, no way would I sell walnut for a buck a foot. I'd rather store it away at that price.


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## oldsaw (Feb 10, 2009)

I still go and buy pine 1x at HD so I don't use up my "good stuff".

Mark


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## Backwoods (Feb 12, 2009)

DaltonPaull said:


> Backwoods - I just looked at your website and it says that you will saw from your own logs or $60 an hour plus the cost of the log. Do you have walnut available? How do you determine the log cost?




I do have a good variety of walnut logs on hand.
For log prices I figure in all the cost that I incur in getting the logs, the cost of the tree, any equipment used to get the tree, fuel and time are also included in the price. When I get the logs home I total all the cost and then divide that cost amongst the logs based on the board footage and quality of the logs. I have free trees that have cost me more to get home then trees that I have paid for. I have logs that range in price from $5- $150. However, most are under $100, and milling time varies from 10 min to an hour depending on what you want out of it and how many times you change your mind during the milling process.


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## woodshop (Feb 15, 2009)

Frickman said:


> ...I get these deals all the time. Happy homeowner gets a quote to remove a yard tree for x hundred or thousand dollars. They hear from someone that I buy standing timber, and they think "Why should I pay to have it removed when so-and-so will pay me for it? Even if he leaves the limbs, I'm money ahead". I go look at it, am not interested in it, and they offer it to me free if I'll cut it.



Interesting... I too hear this story many times over from sawmill guys. The average guy on the street just has no clue (and not saying he/she should) as to lumber value. They don't know the difference between a sawlog worth a thousand bucks to a Japanese veneer log buyer and something like this yard tree pictured, full of tension and compression wood and yes probably full of nails and clothesline hooks. Just the nature of this end of the universe.


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## swanny (Feb 17, 2009)

Interesting thread. I have a guy up the street (in MD) that runs a tree company...he's got a bunch of logs available right now. Said he'd work something out with my son as far as supplying logs.

One log he's got in his yard is 32" at the small end by 15' long white oak...all clear...no limbs. Absolute beauty. Any guesses as to what a fair price would be?

He's also got a load of 20" white pines...17'ers...mostly straight as an arrow.

My son would probably turn the white oak into fence boards (I know...someone here would probably moan and groan at this usage), and the pine into studs to build his shed's he'll sell.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Feb 17, 2009)

woodshop said:


> Interesting... I too hear this story many times over from sawmill guys. The average guy on the street just has no clue (and not saying he/she should) as to lumber value. They don't know the difference between a sawlog worth a thousand bucks to a Japanese veneer log buyer and something like this yard tree pictured, full of tension and compression wood and yes probably full of nails and clothesline hooks. Just the nature of this end of the universe.



+1


So far the only price I've paid for logs is blood, sweat and fuel.

Not that I wouldn't pay for a good tree/ log I just haven't came across one that's worth it.


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## redprospector (Feb 17, 2009)

swanny said:


> Interesting thread. I have a guy up the street (in MD) that runs a tree company...he's got a bunch of logs available right now. Said he'd work something out with my son as far as supplying logs.
> 
> One log he's got in his yard is 32" at the small end by 15' long white oak...all clear...no limbs. Absolute beauty. Any guesses as to what a fair price would be?
> 
> ...



If these were "yard trees" I wouldn't mess with them. If your son does, he'll need to invest in a metal detector. I won't pay for a tree I know came from someone's yard.

I just went out to look at a per hour milling job today. The first thing I saw in the big log the owner was so proud of was a piece of 8 ga. wire sticking out of it. I told him that the only way I would mill them is if he metal detected them, and agreed to pay the cost of a new blade + shipping for every thing I hit. He said ok, so I'll probably have a few new blades coming next week.

The blades I run are about $28 bucks a piece. Don't sound like much until you start shelling them out on nails in "yard trees".

Andy


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## striperswaper (Mar 10, 2009)

*white oak*

those of you in the NE with white oak... you might want to contact wooden boat builders on the coast. if you could cut out a few mark ups between the woods and the boat builder shed you might both be happy with the deal


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## carvinmark (Mar 10, 2009)

redprospector said:


> The blades I run are about $28 bucks a piece. Don't sound like much until you start shelling them out on nails in "yard trees".
> 
> Andy



I sure do agree with you.


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## Backwood (Mar 10, 2009)

How would this be for a free tree? 234" around at 4'6" high

This is a huge white oak a friend of mine wants me to cut ( and have ). Yesterday I cut the big burl off the side and found out the bad news, there's only about 6" of wood left around the outside, totally hollow. But the top is "full" of burls Now I am tryin to figure out how to cut it  Not sure what the next step will be


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## Backwood (Mar 10, 2009)

these were free too, sycamore if standing would have been 42" dbh, a poplar was about 38"


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## oldsaw (Mar 10, 2009)

Free is best. Those are good "freebies", I'd take them.

Mark


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## Backwoods (Mar 11, 2009)

The last two are nice free logs.


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## DaltonPaull (Apr 23, 2009)

Well, with nothing good showing up for free, I ended up paying $200 for an English Walnut yard tree. All the branches had been cut off but the tree was still standing.

Pros - Short drive from home
36" diameter
Didn't care if I cut it up in the yard and left a huge mess.
Cons - Hit some large metal (laundry hook?) that broke off about 10 teeth but the place I bought the chain patched it back together for free.

Expense - $200 for tree
$40 for my climber friend to top it.
$60 for someone strong to help me load it.
~$50 for saw/chain/gas/mix etc.
Total $350

I ended up with 16 slabs, 9 feet long, 9/4 to 12/4 thick and 20" - 36" wide. For the investment I'm happy - some of the slabs are probably each worth more than $350. 

Here's how I found it:






The bole:





Part way done:





Stacked:


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## striperswaper (Apr 24, 2009)

paint the ends! nice slabs, live edge tables?


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## DaltonPaull (Apr 24, 2009)

The ends are waxed - but I should probably slap another coat on there for good measure! Yeah - live edge tables for sure! Counter tops and would be good. I might make lumber out of some of it too for smaller projects. It seams like a shame to cut up such big boards but if the alternative is buying lumber, I know what I'll do.


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