# Zip Line Help



## MikeJasmine (Feb 8, 2008)

I was looking for info on zip line set up and techniques and couldn't find anything in past threads available to me. Can you folks fill me in on the basics of the topic? I don't have any specialized equipment and intend to experiment on small limb-wood [and inexpensive] scale...and away from any targets. So would 'biners and rope work? Photos are worth a thousand words. I might be able to borrow a block. I have been following threads for over a year and finally have a question I deem worthy of the site.

Thanks! MJ


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## Wortown Mick (Feb 8, 2008)

Try google. 
If its the ziplines im thinking of theyre pretty easy to set up. Generally the commercial designs use 2 cables and a trolley that runs along them. 

They dont seem much more complicated than a dogs run. If you know how to cable trees than you know enough to set one up.


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## kennertree (Feb 8, 2008)

If you do set one up be sure you know how to calculate rigging forces. Speedlines can be overloaded very easily. Its only as strong as its weakest link.


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## jomoco (Feb 8, 2008)

MikeJasmine said:


> I was looking for info on zip line set up and techniques and couldn't find anything in past threads available to me. Can you folks fill me in on the basics of the topic? I don't have any specialized equipment and intend to experiment on small limb-wood [and inexpensive] scale...and away from any targets. So would 'biners and rope work? Photos are worth a thousand words. I might be able to borrow a block. I have been following threads for over a year and finally have a question I deem worthy of the site.
> 
> Thanks! MJ



The basic most important aspects of speedlining is understanding and not exceeding the targets weight to the speedline tie off points weight bearing ability, sort of like choosing a safe secure TIP or bodyline tie in point, as long as you understand that important ratio, go for it!

All that's required to begin experimenting are a 1/2 inch speedline, 3 or 4 doublelocking crarabiners and an assortment of rated nylon strap loops on the biners. I use 3 and 6 foot nylon straps.

One man anchoring or tensioning the the speedline is fine for very small stuff, 3 or for men for medium stuff, thicker speedlines, heavier hardware and winch anchoring for big stuff.

Many good speedlining books are available and are a must read before you go big.

Work safe!

jomoco


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## Wortown Mick (Feb 8, 2008)

Yeah, what he said. 
I didnt know if you were making one for the kids without a real drop just above head level to it or some screamer out of the top of the tree.


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## teamtree (Feb 8, 2008)

We use them and sometimes they are pretty basic and sometimes we bring out all the wistles. We use a 1/2" Static Kernmantle, Loop Runners with Carabiners and use either our tractor or port-a-wrap to put tension on the line. We have used trolleys and multiple ropes if we need to control the speed of the load (instead of letting it hit the ground). 

Secure the speedline in the target tree (or anonther tree near it) and let it slack. Attach loop runner to target limb and snap carabiner to speed line.
Apply tension to speedline (careful not to put too much tension). Cut the limb and as it gets closer to the landing let the slack into the speedline.
It takes time to master same as letting loads run and slowing it down. 

I am sure there are many variations but this is the most basic set up for us. Most commonly used by our crew as well. 

I learned the most about rigging and speedlining from the Sherrill catalog. They have great illustrations. I would try something new from the illustrations and build upon that. 

Speedlines have been a big help to us and a very important tool or technique for getting jobs done efficiently.


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## MikeJasmine (Feb 8, 2008)

*Zip*

That all sounds reasonable. Just getting the tension on the line itself is what I wondered about. Maybe a loop around the anchor tree and slack the line as the wood aproaches to soft land it. So loops and carabiners should take care of the smaller pieces, ok. I forgot about Sherrill. I'll check tonight.


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## John464 (Feb 8, 2008)




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## Mitchell (Feb 10, 2008)

*Zip or speed*



MikeJasmine said:


> I was looking for info on zip line set up and techniques and couldn't find anything in past threads available to me. Can you folks fill me in on the basics of the topic? I don't have any specialized equipment and intend to experiment on small limb-wood [and inexpensive] scale...and away from any targets. So would 'biners and rope work? Photos are worth a thousand words. I might be able to borrow a block. I have been following threads for over a year and finally have a question I deem worthy of the site.
> 
> Thanks! MJ



I have helped set up commercial zip lines and I can give you and the lads here info on that if that is what you want to do. If it is speed lining or high lining for removal proposes that is another matter. What is it your after?

A basic speed line is a rope [with a snap usually] with biners and loops to attach loads to the rope. The guy on the ground can control the descent rate of the piece by tensioning or slacking the speed line rope as the load slides down.

High lining involves using a tensioned high line to support a trolley that keeps loads suspended above the ground. It is another matter with lots of potential for catastrophic failure and I wont get into it unless you are figuring on trying it. The time it takes to set up is generally not worth it as there are almost always other options


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 10, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> The time it takes to set up is generally not worth it as there are almost always other options



The only people I know who make it work live in areas with huge trees, like Roger B. in Seattle.

I use simple zip lines a few times a year. A couple slings and carrabiners, and a portawrap are the minimal needed. As you get the hang of it, you can add things on, like a return/control line ad pulley. lateral tensioning to make separate piles so you can go bigger then the ground can drag.

Understanding the loading is a big thing, Mike Maas has a number of posts with diagrams on backing up the speed line TIP.


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## joesawer (Feb 11, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The only people I know who make it work live in areas with huge trees, like Roger B. in Seattle.
> 
> I use simple zip lines a few times a year. A couple slings and carrabiners, and a portawrap are the minimal needed. As you get the hang of it, you can add things on, like a return/control line ad pulley. lateral tensioning to make separate piles so you can go bigger then the ground can drag.
> 
> Understanding the loading is a big thing, Mike Maas has a number of posts with diagrams on backing up the speed line TIP.



+1
Tall trees and/or steep ground. 

Shorter trees just don't give enough elevation to make them work reall good.
I have an assortment of ropes, slings, caribeeners, snaps, pulleys, etc, that I use. The most often used is 1/2" rope, web slings, and cheap locking hooks. I also keep a micro pully on my saddle with a small diameter loop, so that the ground crew can quikly run groups of slings back up to me.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 11, 2008)

joesawer said:


> Shorter trees just don't give enough elevation to make them work reall good.



It really sucks when the streak in the rope makes the branch drag on the roof. Then you need a guy up there to help it over and you can only get the highest portions of the tree out with the zip line.

With the GRCS there are ways to work around this, but then you end up with loading issues.


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## bendtrees (Feb 11, 2008)

Mike, sounds like your trying to fool around a bit without investing much, so I'll focus there. 

first, someone may have said it, but I think you will have more luck searching speed line as opposed to zip... 

I have experimented a bit and here's what works for me. 
-I get into the tree with as many slings as possible. They are all girth-hitched and taped onto biners. I like the "shoulder length" slings which are just long enough you can sling them over your shoulder "bandolier style" if you so wanted. The benefit of this length is that they are large enough for most small wood, but not long enough to hang up on your boots, etc. I use biners that are far less than trustworthy depending on the targets. Ill double up on larger chunks. 
-I use a smaller diameter rope, 8mil static rock rope. The smaller diameter yields less friction, hence more travel. Obviously, I rarely send anything big on it, but if the slope is great and forces are low then I'll send tops too. I usually, get a ratio of 1:1 "glide slope" with this setup. Meaning If I am 30 feet up, my pieces will travel 30 feet from the base of trunk. If you put a pulley on each piece, you can almost double the ratio! I have shopped around for individual sheaves to place on all my biners, but have never commited to ordering any. They would be similar to the Petzl ULTRALEGERE. But, metal, not nylon and with a larger aperature. Individual pulleys on everything would be nice, but slower to rig. 
-On the ground we usually just have a pulley to redirect the line and keep the groundman out of harms way. Sometimes we'll use M/A. 

In the tree I usually just wrap the line around the trunk a couple times and clip with a locker. Its quick and easy to bump up every whorl or two. Then I girth hitch all the branches, clip them on the line and cut in the appropriate order. While groundman is cleaning up the load, I am moving up and slinging the next series of branches.

Cautions: eventually, using non-locking biners, you will have a branches that unclip. Another worry is that although the system is inherently dynamic I've found myself overconfident in the dynamic properties. 
I haven't had reason to get into the more elaborate trolley systems that many fellas on here have but I'm sure there will come a day. 


I really like speedlines and find them especially efficient in excurrent removals when you can run everything to the chipper!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 11, 2008)

> I like the "shoulder length" slings which are just long enough you can sling them over your shoulder "bandolier style"



I like to clip a stiched daisy chain on and clip slings that are wound up onto it. Then I can send the daisy down to have them clipped on while moving to another place and resetting.

Another thing to watch out for is the speed that can come with an uncontrolled speedline. Chunks can cause a lot of lawn damage!


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## Mitchell (Feb 12, 2008)

*tension*



bendtrees said:


> -On the ground we usually just have a pulley to redirect the line and keep the groundman out of harms way. Sometimes we'll use M/A.
> 
> Cautions: eventually, using non-locking biners, you will have a branches that unclip. Another worry is that although the system is inherently dynamic I've found myself overconfident in the dynamic properties.



With my basic speed line setup I find there is enough safety margin to allow the ground worker or two to hold the tension him[them]self. as the piece nears him [its never close as the rope bellies out] he can let the rope go and the piece hits the ground. When someone is at the controls, the next piece can be directed neatly onto the pile or beside it very quickly. I also like the fact that a groundie can quickly move and pre tension a branch in the right direction so when cut, it snaps out of a drop into contact scenario. 

I personally do not use gated biners. It was with the unclipping biner in mind that had me thumb through a varity before I settled on the ones I bought. My first dropped branch might change my opinion...


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## MikeJasmine (Feb 12, 2008)

*Tons of info !*

Whoa! I searched old posts using 'speedline' and haven't been able to get through all the videos and posts yet. See, just have to ask the right question. Now I have more homework to do. Thanks all.

Shock loading was the other part of the equation I was wondering about. I thought I saw one post with that as the topic. I 'll check it out. We are expecting some nice weather this weekend [mid 50s] and after a couple of weeks of rain/snow I can't wait to try out some of these ideas. Thanks again, I'll let you know if I have more questions.
MJ


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## BarkingMad (Feb 12, 2008)

If you have a little spare time and are inclined to play a little, you can learn a lot by setting up a model on the ground using small trees or branches. You can get a feel for how tensioning changes the system, maybe try redirects, or spread and shift anchor points. It might save you looking like an idiot in front of a client or your crew, too.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 12, 2008)

As to thee forces in the tree, onee anolgy I like to use is pulling is tree over. We don't need a whole lot of force on the rope to do it, so, when tightening the speed line think what one or two man weights will do wheen working with biig wood.


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## beowulf343 (Feb 12, 2008)

jomoco said:


> The basic most important aspects of speedlining is understanding and not exceeding the targets weight to the speedline tie off points weight bearing ability, sort of like choosing a safe secure TIP or bodyline tie in point, as long as you understand that important ratio, go for it!



Lol, that's a short filler moment right there! Lower a chunk on the line and the tree you have the line started in starts coming over. Lots of weight with lots of leverage is not a good thing.


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## jomoco (Feb 12, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> Lol, that's a short filler moment right there! Lower a chunk on the line and the tree you have the line started in starts coming over. Lots of weight with lots of leverage is not a good thing.



Come clean Beowulf, haven't you ever rigged up a fancy speedline and knocked the clients socks off at how sneaky, slick and well it works at putting every stick of brush from a strategic removal in one big neat pile over fifty feet away from the tree?

No? That aint right Beowulf!

jomoco


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## beastmaster (Feb 13, 2008)

I enviously look at all the fancy gear people use for speed lining, but I have been doing it for over 20 years with a bull-rope and clavis tied to a trucker hitch on a stable platform(tree,truck,etc.) Taking tops and good size chunks. For smaller branches I often use a steel biner and a lower rope. It has always worked well with me. I braid a piece of 3 strand with a loop on one side and that's what I hook the clavis/carabiner to. Maybe a little old school but simple and safe.


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