# Stihl 200T problems.



## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

My brother just gave me an old 200T chainsaw that he just had laying around in his garage. He told he that he remember that it was not working properly last time he had used it, which was like two years ago. I took it home and took it apart and gave it a good cleaning. Took the car and everything apart to make sure there were no hoses with cuts or anything. So then I put it back together and added gas into it and gave it a pull. It turns on right away and run if I push on the gas. But when I go to cut it just bugs out. It turns back on right away though and still runs if I give it gas, just when I go to cut it bugs out. So I took the clutch cover off, bar, and chain. I turned it on and it runs pretty good when I give it gas. So I grabbed a piece of wood and put pressure on the clutch and spur and when I put enough pressure the engine dies every time. 

What could be causing the problem?? bad compression or a bad carb?? When I took it apart I did not think of checking the piston for scratches. Thanks a lot.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

Well we need to start here , do a compression test first.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I was just looking online for a compression gauge, running down to AutoZone to get one. What psi reading should I be looking for in a good 200T engine?.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

joejoesaw said:


> Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I was just looking online for a compression gauge, running down to AutoZone to get one. What psi reading should I be looking for in a good 200T engine?.


150 or a bit higher. pull it about 12 times or until the gauge stops rising when testing. Also if you take the saw apart and get the muffler off have a look at the piston and rings in the exhaust port. Maybe try tuning the carb before you tear it down, turn both the high and low jets in clockwise till they seat lightly dont force you will damage, then turn both out 1 full turn counter clockwise , see if this helps.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

Another thing I thought of is look under the handle air filter box on the left side just under the air filter area and look for a vac- impulse line with a flashlight make sure it is connected under the air box and tight. The carb could have a vac leak can you take some pics of the style i want to see if it is the type with an accelerator pump or not. It would look like this pic here. Does it have the plug that the green arrow is pointing to?


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## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

I did compression test a few times and it reads between 130-135 psi. So after seeing that I took the muffle off really quick and the piston looks pretty scratch up. Here are some pictures of the piston. I did not try tuning the carb but I think the problem is the bad compression, right? Thanks a lot.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

Toast my friend. Keep ripping it down. We are going to have some work to do now.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

Well at least it was a free saw. I do not mind investing some money on it to getting running properly. So I took the carb out I will post a few pictures of it. The rubber boot going from the carb to the cylinder head still is in good shape, no cuts or tears. The fuel line and the two other hoses were secured properly. I believe one of them is the vac hose that you mention. Both of them are also still in good condition. Here is another picture of the top of the piston. I found some aftermarket Cylinder Head Piston Kits online, I am assuming I need one of those kits, also do you have any suggestion to a good brand? Thanks again.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

If you decide to go aftermarket talk to Definitive Dave he is great help and great prices.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/conversations/add?to=Definitive+Dave


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

Lets see some pics of the cyl damage ,half the time the cylinders can be cleaned up. You need to put new crank seals in there in case that is what caused the meltdown. Is the piston score on one side or two sides that may be telling of the cause. It is important after you rebuild to vac test the engine also to avoid another situation like this.
If you need an IPL for that saw PM me your email address. Or the repair manual. I have both.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

I have it completely dismantled at the moment. I took the cylinder out and all. It took a bit but I got it out. Here is the damage on the cylinder. I can actually feel the scrapes created by the piston inside of the cylinder with my finger, One side got hit the worse. Crazy. I just have to find the Kit. I am going to wait for Definitive Dave and see what he says.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

Kinda looks like a classic 4 corner seizure due to too much heat. It must have been running too lean to cause this I can guess, replace the seals and gaskets and pressure test when all done. If Dave dont get back PM me Ill give you his cell number.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

You need a cylinder and piston, a base gasket 2 crank seals but if you were wise you would buy 3 or 4 cause sure as hell you will wreck one or more at first try.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

I was just going to buy the cylinder and piston kit but thanks a lot for telling me about the gaskets. I will make sure to to buy a few. While waiting to buy the kit I cleaned everything really good, spent a couple of hours on the cleaning but I think it will be worth it. It's going to look almost new, I just hope it runs once I put it back together... Thanks a lot for the IPL and repair manual. It help a lot when taking out the piston itself. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.


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## lone wolf (Jan 9, 2016)

joejoesaw said:


> I was just going to buy the cylinder and piston kit but thanks a lot for telling me about the gaskets. I will make sure to to buy a few. While waiting to buy the kit I cleaned everything really good, spent a couple of hours on the cleaning but I think it will be worth it. It's going to look almost new, I just hope it runs once I put it back together... Thanks a lot for the IPL and repair manual. It help a lot when taking out the piston itself. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.


Any up and down play in the crank bearings, some side to side is OK up and down is not.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 9, 2016)

I will give them a check side to side and up and down. But when I was taking it apart and messing with the piston the bearings seem pretty solid. Did not notice them to have any play in any direction. But I will double check just to make sure.


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## treebilly (Jan 10, 2016)

If it doesn't run once you put it together I'll pay for shipping. I need another one for my saw guy to fix up for me.


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## pro94lt (Jan 10, 2016)

Look close at the picture on the cylinder where the intake boot goes on... Looks off center. I've had 200s ripped out of my hands and actually rip out the rubber AV mounts off from to big and letting off the throttle to quick topping, and my guess is it pulled the intake boot loose, then the saw could become lean and do the damage. Check it out what do you think?


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## joejoesaw (Jan 10, 2016)

treebilly said:


> If it doesn't run once you put it together I'll pay for shipping. I need another one for my saw guy to fix up for me.


Haha, no I am determine to get this saw running. After all it was a free saw, so the only money I am putting in it is the cost of the Cylinder and Piston Kit. Thanks for the offer though.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 10, 2016)

pro94lt said:


> Look close at the picture on the cylinder where the intake boot goes on... Looks off center. I've had 200s ripped out of my hands and actually rip out the rubber AV mounts off from to big and letting off the throttle to quick topping, and my guess is it pulled the intake boot loose, then the saw could become lean and do the damage. Check it out what do you think?


Yeah you are right. It does look off center. I inspected the boot to make sure it didn't had any tears or cut when I took out and it didn't, but I did not check to see if it was sitting there properly before I took it out. I am going to make sure it is tightly secure once I put everything back together. That could have been part of the problem if it wasn't sitting there properly. I think the major factor that cause the damage was an improper mix of oil and gas.


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## treebilly (Jan 10, 2016)

Piston and cylinder look nasty. I've never seen one that bad. Good luck and enjoy the rebuild.


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## JeffGu (Jan 10, 2016)

Sure looks like somebody put straight gas in it, doesn't it?


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## lone wolf (Jan 10, 2016)

JeffGu said:


> Sure looks like somebody put straight gas in it, doesn't it?


 Old Ethanol gas tends to draw water and separate in the fuel and cause seizures too. Could be either one take a look at the pics in my next post.


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## lone wolf (Jan 10, 2016)

Here is a pic of a piston from straight gas.http://www.madsens1.com/saw_piston_fail.htm
Heat seizure is similar. OP do you have any gas in the tank left to look at in a glass jar? if not look for any traces of oil in the lower rod bearing if no oil straight gas could be the reason, if oil residue then it was heat seized.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 14, 2016)

I saw the pictures and heat seizure looks a lot like it. My plan is to run the engine a little rich than what is recommended. I read an article a couple of days back, I can't find it again or else I would put a link to it on here. But on the article the author mentions how the recommended mixture for his saws is 50:1 and for older saws you might want to run somewhere in-between 40:1 and 30:1. He also mentions that he prefers to run his saws richer just to have that extra lubrication in there. So I was thinking of doing that once I get this saw back up and running. Maybe run a mixture of 40:1 or 45:1, what do you guys think? Most of the parts have arrived. All I am waiting for is the cylinder and piston. I am hoping to receive all the parts by this weekend so that I can have the saw running by Sunday.


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## lone wolf (Jan 14, 2016)

Here is todays repair from an ms 260 this looks like straight gas.


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## joejoesaw (Jan 16, 2016)

So I haven't received the piston and cylinder for my 200T, I might not get it until middle of the next week. But rebuilding this 200T, something that I originally did not had planned when I got the saw, made me go and dig out an old 334T husqvarna top handle saw that I had bury in my garage since probably 2008. I got drag in into the arborist work back in 2006, so I am a decent tree trimmer and feller but no experience at rebuilding or fixing saws so I am really grateful for all the help y'all have given me. I am glad I am decided to fix this 2o0T it certainly has help me out a lot. But anyways back to the 334T. There were a lot of pieces missing out this husq, more importantly the pulley cover along with all the pulley components and also the brake cover. So I bought a used pulley cover on ebay and surprisingly I got it within two days. I replaced the spark plug on it put the pulley cover on and decided to put first check the compression before I even started it. It reads 120 psi with the muffle off, since I took it off to check the piston out but did not saw any damage. I do not know if the muffle been off affected the compression test. So anyways, I decided to put the muffle on and try to turn the saw on. It turn on after a few attempts, but the saw only stays on with full choke on. As soon as I take the choke off the saw turns off. So I figured maybe there is an air leak and there is too much air going into the engine or maybe my fuel line is block and not enough gas is getting to the engine. So I completely dismantle the saw to take a better look. I am replacing the prime bulb since it looks in pretty bad shape and maybe some air is leaking in through there. I took everything apart and the gas line looks clean, I haven't taken the gas filter out so I do not know the condition of it. But I decided to just take off the cylinder to check out the piston and the condition of it. I have included some pictures of it. I looked through the pictures of different types of damages on pistons that you included lone wolf but none seem like it could be the case. Well the Over-Speeding the Engine looks some what like it but I am not sure. Is the piston damage or do you guys think it still has life left on it?


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## lone wolf (Jan 16, 2016)

joejoesaw said:


> So I haven't received the piston and cylinder for my 200T, I might not get it until middle of the next week. But rebuilding this 200T, something that I originally did not had planned when I got the saw, made me go and dig out an old 334T husqvarna top handle saw that I had bury in my garage since probably 2008. I got drag in into the arborist work back in 2006, so I am a decent tree trimmer and feller but no experience at rebuilding or fixing saws so I am really grateful for all the help y'all have given me. I am glad I am decided to fix this 2o0T it certainly has help me out a lot. But anyways back to the 334T. There were a lot of pieces missing out this husq, more importantly the pulley cover along with all the pulley components and also the brake cover. So I bought a used pulley cover on ebay and surprisingly I got it within two days. I replaced the spark plug on it put the pulley cover on and decided to put first check the compression before I even started it. It reads 120 psi with the muffle off, since I took it off to check the piston out but did not saw any damage. I do not know if the muffle been off affected the compression test. So anyways, I decided to put the muffle on and try to turn the saw on. It turn on after a few attempts, but the saw only stays on with full choke on. As soon as I take the choke off the saw turns off. So I figured maybe there is an air leak and there is too much air going into the engine or maybe my fuel line is block and not enough gas is getting to the engine. So I completely dismantle the saw to take a better look. I am replacing the prime bulb since it looks in pretty bad shape and maybe some air is leaking in through there. I took everything apart and the gas line looks clean, I haven't taken the gas filter out so I do not know the condition of it. But I decided to just take off the cylinder to check out the piston and the condition of it. I have included some pictures of it. I looked through the pictures of different types of damages on pistons that you included lone wolf but none seem like it could be the case. Well the Over-Speeding the Engine looks some what like it but I am not sure. Is the piston damage or do you guys think it still has life left on it? View attachment 478985
> View attachment 478986
> View attachment 478988
> View attachment 478990
> ...


Well based on the 120 lbs of compression the piston is damaged and the Cyl might be also.


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## airframefixer (Jan 22, 2016)

I've rebuilt 4 200T's in the last year. All of them needed PTO bearings and seals. I made a tool to draw in the seals without damaging them. Just a bolt, sleeve, nut and washers. If you try to press or tap them in, they'll Crack If not perfectly aligned.


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## Mattyo (Jan 23, 2016)

I'm working on a 200t video series...the teardown vids are on my youtube page. As soon as I get the right parts in I'll finish up the build. 

Airframe? You put the seals in before the crank / case halves?


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## airframefixer (Jan 24, 2016)

Hello.
I find it best to build up the crank havles first then put the crank in. My procedure is to put the bearings in a ziploc and put them in the freezer for a few hours. Heat up the halves, and press the bearings in. Once things cool off. Assemble my seal drawing tool, and draw them in. Once there in, wipe the back sides off the seal with oil, put the gasket in and put the crank in. It is wise to remove the flywheel key prior to passing it through the seal. You need to trim the crankcase gasket with a razor blade to get it flush with the cylinder mount surface.. I have some pics I took I did of a 200T that uses an 020T cylinder. I will be selling this saw in the post shortly. I'll dig them up and post.


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## backhoelover (Jan 24, 2016)

dave ebay is down to the 25 i think will have to check his ebay store


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## lone wolf (Jan 24, 2016)

airframefixer said:


> Hello.
> I find it best to build up the crank havles first then put the crank in. My procedure is to put the bearings in a ziploc and put them in the freezer for a few hours. Heat up the halves, and press the bearings in. Once things cool off. Assemble my seal drawing tool, and draw them in. Once there in, wipe the back sides off the seal with oil, put the gasket in and put the crank in. It is wise to remove the flywheel key prior to passing it through the seal. You need to trim the crankcase gasket with a razor blade to get it flush with the cylinder mount surface.. I have some pics I took I did of a 200T that uses an 020T cylinder. I will be selling this saw in the post shortly. I'll dig them up and post.


What about an 020T engine with a MS200T cyl?


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## airframefixer (Jan 24, 2016)

You would need to grind the case to get the transfers to match. I don't ever recall seeing a listed power difference in NA 020t vs 200t saws for what it's worth. Euro saws had a different muffler so it may be the case there.


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## lone wolf (Jan 24, 2016)

airframefixer said:


> You would need to grind the case to get the transfers to match. I don't ever recall seeing a listed power difference in NA 020t vs 200t saws for what it's worth. Euro saws had a different muffler so it may be the case there.


Can you do this? I have a bunch of 020T engines.


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## Mattyo (Jan 24, 2016)

Thanks I put the bearings in the freezer as well so we have the same procedure thank you for the heads up on the seals


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## airframefixer (Jan 24, 2016)

lone wolf said:


> Can you do this? I have a bunch of 020T engines.




If you have complete 020T bottom ends, I'd just rebuild them and make mate the balance of 200t parts. Look through the tree stuff website site. Looks like they sell aftermarket 200T tanks and handles. 

Here's one of the 020T/200T hybrids I'd did. 




To the OP. You may want to look into accelerator pump mods aswell. The accell pump is trigger actuated and will wear it's carb bore out after so many cycles.


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## airframefixer (Jan 24, 2016)

Here's some pics, hopefully this illustrates the lower transfer port matching.


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## Mattyo (Jan 24, 2016)

Thanks....I'll take some of these ideas for my vids if you don't mind


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## airframefixer (Jan 24, 2016)

Please do. If I had another that needed rebuild, I'd do the same. The accelerator pump mod would derserve a video


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## Mattyo (Jan 24, 2016)

Yeah...was wonderingabout that....best thread to show that mod?


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## lone wolf (Jan 24, 2016)

Chainsaw section.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/forums/chainsaw.9/


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## Superjunior2 (Feb 2, 2016)

Sorry to derail guys. Lone wolf I seen you pm'd me. I have no clue how to open the inbox, never seen a more complicated pm set up on a forum before. Been a couple years since I hung out here, but damn I don't remember it being like that. Anyhow I'm assuming it's regarding the 200t


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## lone wolf (Feb 2, 2016)

Superjunior2 said:


> Sorry to derail guys. Lone wolf I seen you pm'd me. I have no clue how to open the inbox, never seen a more complicated pm set up on a forum before. Been a couple years since I hung out here, but damn I don't remember it being like that. Anyhow I'm assuming it's regarding the 200t


Go to the top of this page on the right ,click on inbox between your name and alerts, then click on my message.


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