# Rope protector/cambium saver



## dantiff2 (Jan 4, 2010)

I have some 1", thick wall rubber hose, something similar to heavy duty garden hose. Think this would be ok for the job? Just looking to keep the rope from directly contacting the bark. Will it stay put or rotate with the rope?

Dan


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## gwiley (Jan 4, 2010)

If the rope is using the tree as a pulley then you should invest in a strap, carabiner and snatch block.


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## oscar4883 (Jan 4, 2010)

If you are climbing doubled rope tech. I believe that it has been discussed before, that hose does not do a great job. Do a search and you will find all kinds of topics on friction/cambium savers. Pulleys and the like are nice, but the leather tubes are easy to set-up and simple to retrieve. Cheap as well.


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## kennertree (Jan 4, 2010)

Search around and look for threads on cambium savers made out of conduit. They can be made fairly cheap, you can order the flexible conduit online or at an electrical supply.


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## cookiecutter (Jan 4, 2010)

dantiff2 said:


> I have some 1", thick wall rubber hose, something similar to heavy duty garden hose. Think this would be ok for the job? Just looking to keep the rope from directly contacting the bark. Will it stay put or rotate with the rope?
> 
> Dan



Sounds like what I was using for a while. It really works poorly. There were many problems, among many are: Lots of friction when the rope slides through - descending dDrt on a Blake's is horrible. Will not stay on the limb (in large part to the friction. Wear out VERY easily - after 2 climbs they were worn out. And they stiffen up when cold. They just don't work great. The conduit works great!


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## RacerX (Jan 4, 2010)

I know that you can buy some 3/4" non-metallic flexible conduit from Home Depot for a few bucks but isn't a leather cambium saver less than $20? I often wanted to try a piece. Is it worth the effort?


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## moss (Jan 4, 2010)

RacerX said:


> I know that you can buy some 3/4" non-metallic flexible conduit from Home Depot for a few bucks but isn't a leather cambium saver less than $20? I often wanted to try a piece. Is it worth the effort?



Don't bother with the home depot stuff, it's not flexible enough, pain in the butt to keep on a branch. Go with a leather sleeve.
-moss


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## dantiff2 (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks for the input everyone  I was hoping to play around on the ropes this weekend, In some oaks using the traditional tied tail DRT,with a foot loop. Which uses the branch as a "pulley", and didn't want to tear up my line. 
An order to the west coast for a leather one would take a week. I kinda thought I could cheat the wear and tear with some household products.
I did go back through some old post on this subject and found someone said the leather cambium saver wears out rather quickly. I'm leaning toward the friction saver because that is really the way I want to go but like I said I was hoping for a cheat.

Dan


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## cookiecutter (Jan 5, 2010)

dantiff2 said:


> Thanks for the input everyone  I was hoping to play around on the ropes this weekend, In some oaks using the traditional tied tail SRT,with a foot loop. Which uses the branch as a "pulley", and didn't want to tear up my line... but like I said I was hoping for a cheat.
> 
> Dan



Maybe I'm off base here, but I say go ahead and cheat. The thick rubber hose didn't work well for me, but it did work. If your only waiting a week you'll be fine. You might use up a little more tubing than you want but at least you are climbing. For me it was impossible to keep the tube on the tree so I dirty wrapped it with duct tape - make it all bunchy and loose. The texture on the back side of the duct tape will help it hold onto the branch. good luck


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## davej (Jan 5, 2010)

http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31_57&products_id=281

A standard $20 leather sleeve will certainly outlast them but for ease of installation and low friction these are really nice.


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## davej (Jan 5, 2010)

dantiff2 said:


> I'm leaning toward the friction saver because that is really the way I want to go but like I said I was hoping for a cheat.



Oh, you want a temporary cheat? Go get a length of cardboard. Roll it around your rope and wrap some duct tape around it. This idea courtesy of TCC's JimK.


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## Sc0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Old Fire Hose?

Should be easy to locate if you have any fire departments as if they are knicked or a few years old they are retired... I think they have a canvas sleeve over a kevlar sleeve, the kevlar sleeve has a smooth/slick type of plastic coating on the inside.


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## moss (Jan 7, 2010)

This is what I've been using for years, they work great.






When the vinyl cover starts to wear take the endcaps off and put them on a new length of conduit. 

This is the best spec liquid tight steel coil lined conduit I've been able to find for tree climbing use:
Conduit rope sleeve spec

The T&B endcap is the best I've tried, it's found in the T&B liquid tight connector PN 5333.

Make sure you get 3/4" inside diameter conduit, works for 1/2" or 11mm rope. 1/2" inside diameter is too tight for 11mm, too much friction and especially in cold weather, won't stay put on the branch.

Conduit savers aren't good with a spliced, it would have to a very tight eye to squeeze though, not worth the trouble.

You should be able to get a spliced eye through a leather saver.
-moss


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## davej (Jan 7, 2010)

moss said:


> The T&B endcap is the best I've tried, it's found in the T&B liquid tight connector PN 5333.
> 
> Make sure you get 3/4" inside diameter conduit, works for 1/2" or 11mm rope.



Moss, if you have bought a 100 of these I would be glad to buy a few off of you. I had thought you probably used the 1/2" version.


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## dantiff2 (Jan 7, 2010)

I like the idea of those conduit rope savers ! Now i'm just wondering if the local Lowe's has what I need! lol I still think I want a friction saver down the road. The kind with the metal rings. That appears to have very little surface area for the rope to drag across. 

Thanks for the advise guys it's all appreciated. 

Dan


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## moss (Jan 7, 2010)

dantiff2 said:


> I like the idea of those conduit rope savers ! Now i'm just wondering if the local Lowe's has what I need! lol I still think I want a friction saver down the road. The kind with the metal rings. That appears to have very little surface area for the rope to drag across.
> 
> Thanks for the advise guys it's all appreciated.
> 
> Dan



Conduit savers are way less friction then rope on bark. Ring-ring savers have less friction but tighter bend radius on the rope and can cause you trouble if you install or take it out from the ground. Always trade-offs. Ring-rings and all their variations are the standard for work climbing.

Good luck with Lowes, doubtful they'll have an endcap with a rounded shoulder. Before you spend money on conduit at Lowes or Home Despot bend it and make sure it has sufficient bend radius, you want to get 4-5". Greater radius and you'll be fighting to keep it over the branch during install.
-moss


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## moss (Jan 7, 2010)

davej said:


> Moss, if you have bought a 100 of these I would be glad to buy a few off of you. I had thought you probably used the 1/2" version.



Nope, 3/4" ID is what I use. The 1/2" ID has too much friction because more of the inner surface contacts the rope and the stuff falls apart too fast. I've destroyed them on one climb. The 3/4" is more robust holds up well.

I buy roughly 28 ft. of conduit at a time from McMaster-Carr and cut them for myself as needed. I facilitate large group climbs so I need to have a lot of savers on hand. The endcaps are hard to find in quantity, minimum order of the T&B endcaps without the whole liquid-tight attachment hardware is 100 at $2 a piece so I'm not going into business anytime soon. I've accumulated enough endcaps so I just move them from saver to saver as I wear the conduit out. In other words I don't have any for sale. Sorry about that. You should be able to order a few of the T&B connectors from an online electrical supplier, harvest the endcaps, get some of the conduit by the foot from McMaster. It's easy to cut to length with a hacksaw, screw the endcaps in and finish with vinyl tape. Your total cost minus labor would be approx. $10-12 per saver.
-moss


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## dantiff2 (Jan 7, 2010)

> Conduit savers are way less friction then rope on bark. Ring-ring savers have less friction but tighter bend radius on the rope and can cause you trouble if you install or take it out from the ground. Always trade-offs. Ring-rings and all their variations are the standard for work climbing.
> 
> Good luck with Lowes, doubtful they'll have an endcap with a rounded shoulder. Before you spend money on conduit at Lowes or Home Despot bend it and make sure it has sufficient bend radius, you want to get 4-5". Greater radius and you'll be fighting to keep it over the branch during install.



Points well taken. Thank you


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## moss (Jan 7, 2010)

dantiff2 said:


> Points well taken. Thank you



You're welcome. I should point out that if you're hanging your rope on a large diameter limb then the less flexible conduit will do. It will still aggravate you but it will work.

For fine workmanship check these out:
Rogue Leather Sleeve
-moss


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## davej (Jan 7, 2010)

moss said:


> In other words I don't have any for sale. Sorry about that. You should be able to order a few of the T&B connectors from an online electrical supplier, harvest the endcaps, get some of the conduit by the foot from McMaster. It's easy to cut to length with a hacksaw, screw the endcaps in and finish with vinyl tape. Your total cost minus labor would be approx. $10-12 per saver.




Well, I'll have to search online. I bought some of the conduit last Summer but the ground cones I remember someone saying were not available in quantities less than 100. Buying the whole 5333 connector is about $5 extra for each ground cone.


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## moss (Jan 7, 2010)

davej said:


> Well, I'll have to search online. I bought some of the conduit last Summer but the ground cones I remember someone saying were not available in quantities less than 100. Buying the whole 5333 connector is about $5 extra for each ground cone.



Ok, it used to be $3 a piece but then again I haven't bought the whole connector in 3 years. I found an electrical supply house who convinced a T&B salesman to give them a bag of the just the endcaps/ground cones. I'm still reusing those. I'll hate to do it but I'll probably have to end up buying 100 of just the endcaps, I keep giving savers away to friends and I'm running low. When I do buy 100 I'll let people know so we can split up the booty. I would never use 100 myself.

If you're just making a couple of savers it still comes out less then buying them ready made.
-moss


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## Bermie (Jan 7, 2010)

Chiming in here...as a recipient of one of Moss's conduit savers, I can attest to how well it works for rec climbing!

It is way easier to install from the ground than the normal ring/ring saver that I use for work climbing, it stays in place just fine when moving around and has less chance of getting stuck when retrieving.

It also works just fine in the cold!


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## davej (Mar 11, 2010)

I posted this on TCI and will post it here. These NOS connectors have the desired ends (ground cones) in them for the ultra-flexible metal conduit...

Ebay Item


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## moss (Mar 13, 2010)

That's a good price Dave, 4 units per lot so essentially $2 per end "ferrule". 99.9% of arborist climbers don't use this type of sleeve but thanks for posting it. The only part i hate is throwing out all that machined metal just to get the end cap.
-moss


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## mojorisin (Mar 23, 2010)

Check out youtube, there are a few ideas on there about this subject. Moss has this dialed!


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## estherrolle (Apr 6, 2010)

*hii*

I did go back through some old post on this subject and found someone said the leather cambium saver wears out rather quickly. I'm leaning toward the friction saver because that is really the way I want to go but like I said I was hoping for a cheat.

Apparel Accessories


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## moss (Apr 6, 2010)

estherrolle said:


> I did go back through some old post on this subject and found someone said the leather cambium saver wears out rather quickly.



If you work climb daily. If you're climbing for the fun of it 1 or 2 days a week a leather saver will last for years.
-moss


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## Damon (Apr 27, 2010)

In a pinch i have used foam sleeping pads like you use if you go camping as a cambium/rope saver depending on your intended use you sometimes have to double up so they don't burn threw, it is easy to duck tape them around a limb if you are trying to use a limb as a pulley i have also used cardboard many times on tryolean traverses where i didn't want to damage a healthy tree or didn't want to chafe a rope on a tree that was coming down

Tom


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## yuuneng (May 13, 2010)

Front support viewpoint ,hopes under everybody many publications the unique viewpoint


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## RacerX (May 14, 2010)

yuuneng said:


> Front support viewpoint ,hopes under everybody many publications the unique viewpoint




:spam::spam::spam::spam::spam::spam::spam:


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## czar_tree (Jun 21, 2012)

*conduit specifications*

Hi dear fellows.
I believe that this model will work fine: 
Water-tight Flexible Metal Conduit (YF-707)
please choose the one more flexible.
if any one find a retailer please let me know!
thanks


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