# Milling Yellow Cedar



## Daninvan (Jun 28, 2010)

Had an invite from a friend to mill up a 6' long butt from a yellow cedar log at his friend's place near Sechelt BC. The log was from Haida Gwaii (much further up the coast), the butt end was cut off because it had some rot in the middle. In order to load the piece in his truck the friend's friend had "bashed' it into quarters with some kind of loader or heavy equipment. Luckily it split reasonably straight and did not cause too much other damage. 

It was about a 12 hour day, involving getting up extremely early (for me) and a ferry ride there and back. The friend's friend was a wonderful host, crab and fresh chowder washed down with fancy beer for lunch, also took home a bag full of fresh prawns. 

Wound up with about 25 boards of various thicknesses, most around 16 inches wide or so. Since the log had been quartered, we were able to get most of the boards quartersawn. Old growth, the rings are 20-30 per inch, probably 1,000 years old or more. Amazing smell too.












I use two saws, one with Granberg ripping chain and the other with Oregon ripping chain. I find the Oregon gives me a much rougher and ripply cut. This is quite visible in the first photo.

After we stopped for lunch the better of my two saws refused to start again. Tune up time I guess, next up is a trip up the coast to get a 24" wide arbutus.

Dan


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## deeker (Jun 28, 2010)

Looks great!!

Smells like potato peelings???

Keep the pics coming!!

Kevin


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## mtngun (Jun 28, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> I use two saws, one with Granberg ripping chain and the other with Oregon ripping chain. I find the Oregon gives me a much rougher and ripply cut. This is quite visible in the first photo.


I can't see the finish in your one and only photo, but maybe there are more photos headed our way ? 

I recently modded a Baileys ripping chain to Granberg style, but haven't had a chance to test it yet.

In any event, thanks for the excellent thread. Wish I had some cedar to mill.


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## BIG JAKE (Jun 28, 2010)

Crab, prawns, chowder, good beer-yeah man I'd do a little milling for that! You get part of the take too? 

thanks for posting sounds like a good time!


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## DRB (Jun 28, 2010)

I love the the Sunshine Coast. I go up that way as often as I can. Prawns and sea food are usually in the trip for me as well when i go up there. 

How do you like the Granberg ripping chain? I always use Oregon ripping chain is the Granberg stuff worth the extra cost?

Nice old growth Yellow Cedar.


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## Daninvan (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks guys, 

There should be two pics available in my first post. I resized one and reposted it here, and added another. I did a crummy job with the camera, I should have taken more than three photos but forgot to do so in all the excitement. 











I'm finding that the Granberg cuts a bit slower but does do a much smoother job. The two pics in this post, the first was with the Oregon the second was with the Granberg. The photos may not show it very clearly but there is quite a difference in the smoothness. 

I now use the Oregon only for the first cut, then I switch to the saw with the Granberg and use it for the rest of my cuts. Unless the Granberg-equipped saw dies. I do have a spare loop of the Granberg, I think I will try fooling with the rakers on the Oregon and if I can't make it cut smoother will switch it out. My DAF that I bought to use the Bobl raker method seems to have packed it in. 

We were going to divide it up evenly between the three of us, I only took 5 pieces as even that was way more than I need. 

I wouldn't describe the smell as potato peelings, which in my experience are pretty odourless. It is a very spicy and pungent aroma, but exactly what it smells like is hard to describe. It is a pleasant smell, although after a day of it I was glad to get away. It doesn't smell much like western red cedar or the cedar used to line cedar chests. It is closer to Port Orford cedar or Monterey Cypress, although much more pungent than either of those.


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## RPM (Jun 28, 2010)

Clear VG yellow cedar is worth big $$$ ... last time I looked at Windsor Plywood - who tend to be expensive anyways - yellow cedar was going for $12-14/bdft for 8/4 boards random width and length.

I have a bunch from the QCI when I worked up there 15+ years ago. Still haven't used it - afraid too b/c I can't afford to replace it. Another reason every man should have a big barn to store "stuff" - or so I'm trying to convince my wife.

Good score and a fun weekend!


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## mtngun (Jun 28, 2010)

RPM said:


> yellow cedar was going for $12-14/bdft for 8/4 boards random width and length.


I had no idea. I take it you don't use this stuff for fence boards ? 

What _does_ yellow cedar get used for ?


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## BobL (Jun 28, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> I'm finding that the Granberg cuts a bit slower but does do a much smoother job. The two pics in this post, the first was with the Oregon the second was with the Granberg. The photos may not show it very clearly but there is quite a difference in the smoothness.



Here's an enlarged picture of your cut with some of the rougher sections highlighted




I was seeing some of this last early year and eventually billstewe and I worked out it was due to a synchronization between things like the cutting speed, the chain/cutter specs and the width of the wood. If you change any of these paramets those ripple will disappear. That's what the Granberg is not doing it and the Oregon is. At different log widths you might find the opposite.

Here's an example, same saw, mill and chain but wood on right is 30% wider.





If you see this effect and want to get reduce it then all you need to do is change the cutting speed like try angling the bar a more in the cut. This changes the cutting length and unsynchronizes the chain and it makes a smoother cut. You will have to angle the bar a significant amount eg 20º+ to minimize this effect as the chains really wants to stay synchronzied.

Nice wood BTW.


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## Daninvan (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks Bob! I just let the bar follow the angle that the wheels make as the saw rides down the log. Trying to fight that is just too much work and generally makes things worse. As the wheels go over various protrusions on the log the angle will change, but I just let the saw take the lead, I don't try and force an angle on it. 

(Also, did you have any input on what yellow cedar smells like?!)

I have noticed this washboard effect kind of comes and goes, although recently it seems to happen more often than not with the Oregon chain. I guess a chain change is the way to go to get rid of this problem.

As for what yellow cedar is used for, from the website for Crosscut Hardwoods in Seattle: "Yellow Cedar is ... used for interior trim, furniture, small boat hulls, canoe paddles, boat building, bridge and dock decking, carving, molding, musical instruments, toys, stadium seats, and window boxes."

I agree Windsor is about the most expensive in town, perhaps in the world?! Unfortunately I don't have a price list for PJ White or Sunbury cedar right at hand, but I suspect they would be a lot more reasonable. On the other hand, the supply of old growth QS yellow cedar is not getting any greater. Maybe I should just tuck my pieces away for the grandkids!

I recounted the growth rings, there are ~50 per inch. Although I didn't measure this log's width, it was likely well over 3' across at the butt, perhaps as much as 4'. If we call it 42", then 42" x 50 rings per inch = 2100 years old. Wow.






In this case I guess I should find a better use than dock decking or window boxes! Probably some kind of furniture, hopefully something which will be worthy of the wood.


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## BobL (Jun 29, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> Thanks Bob! I just let the bar follow the angle that the wheels make as the saw rides down the log. Trying to fight that is just too much work and generally makes things worse. As the wheels go over various protrusions on the log the angle will change, but I just let the saw take the lead, I don't try and force an angle on it. I have noticed this washboard effect kind of comes and goes, although recently it seems to happen more often than not with the Oregon chain. I guess a chain change is the way to go to get rid of this problem.


It seems to happen more with often with full comp chains and less for skip arrangements - greater chance for synchronization?



> (Also, did you have any input on what yellow cedar smells like?!)


Not really except I don't remember potato peelngs, least ways not the sort of potatoes I'm used to


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## RPM (Jun 29, 2010)

mtngun said:


> I had no idea. I take it you don't use this stuff for fence boards ?
> 
> What _does_ yellow cedar get used for ?



When I worked on the west coast the biggest demand came from Japan. They were after the best, straightest, clear, blemish free wood they could get their hands. "Temple" wood fetched the biggest price as they wanted the biggest pieces. And temple wood being just - for building temples. The Japanese like clear - white, creamy colored wood....hemlock included. 

Its rarer now with most of the easy wood logged. I heli logged on Vancouver Island in late 90's and we would have a scaler on the hill with us picking out and marking logs for certain buyers ... he would have log specs / grade sheets for different buyers. He would mark logs with different colors and they would get picked up by the heli and dropped into floating booms. (We logged lots of coastal inlets). The Japanese would send their buyers over to walk the booms and give the yes / no for each individual log.

Other uses include high end architectural / mill work grade uses.

In the day (80's) , both red and yellow cedar were kinda treated as junk species. Not much care was given to getting the entire log to the road side. I saw a lot of wood smashed b/c the fallers were paid for volume not quality and the yarding crews would beat it up to. A lot of wood was wasted.

My $/bdft is on the high end for premium grade - wide boards, rings/inch, grain orientation. As with all species and milling there is range of grades from utility and up. The utility stuff could go for fence boards - yellow cedar is more rot resistant then red cedar. It weathers to a nice grey.


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## Daninvan (Jun 29, 2010)

I tried something new, I posted a 40 sec HD video of the milling to Motionbox. Everyone should be able to view it as it is not password protected or anything.

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/a498d3ba1410e3c72c

It shows my buddy (blue shirt) and his buddy (not blue shirt, but running the saw) cutting a portion of the yellow cedar log.

The default is "standard definition" but there is an option to view it in HD, if you select that it'll take several moments (not 5 min!) to process and then you see it slightly larger than std definition.

Dan


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## RPM (Jun 29, 2010)

BobL said:


> Here's an enlarged picture of your cut with some of the rougher sections highlighted
> .



Bob ... you and Mntgun enhance photos like they do on CSI and "24"....you guys have any black ops / FBI training . 

And I guess you are "here" - in real time - being North America - MST?


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## Brmorgan (Jun 29, 2010)

Mmmm... I can smell it now... I love that stuff. That's a pretty nice stash of lumber now.

Yellow Cedar is an excellent carving wood because it has a very even grain with little difference of hardness between summer and springwood.


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## swift4me (Jun 29, 2010)

I made some turkey calls out of some very old yellow cedar fenceposts a few years back. The smell was very distinctive to me. It was the same as the shavings from sharpening pencils years ago. Not sure what they use now, but the memory of emptying out the pencil sharpeners in school back in the 60's came right back.

Beautiful wood.

Pete


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## BobL (Jun 29, 2010)

RPM said:


> Bob ... you and Mntgun enhance photos like they do on CSI and "24"....you guys have any black ops / FBI training .
> 
> And I guess you are "here" - in real time - being North America - MST?



Cheers RPM. 

I dunno about CSI and 24 comparison, from what I know what they show is 90% baloney (I'm the opposite - just 10% baloney  ).

Yeah - It's kinda weird being on the forum at the same time as you guys.



swift4me said:


> The smell was very distinctive to me. It was the same as the shavings from sharpening pencils years ago. Not sure what they use now, but the memory of emptying out the pencil sharpeners in school back in the 60's came right back.



I agree - it has some elements of this - but it's "new pencils" rather than "old lunch bag stained pencils"


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## BobL (Jun 29, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> I tried something new, I posted a 40 sec HD video of the milling to Motionbox.
> http://www.motionbox.com/videos/a498d3ba1410e3c72c



Nice sharp vid Dan. Cutting rate seems good although I still wince a little at folks milling on their knees


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## mtngun (Jun 29, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> I recounted the growth rings, there are ~50 per inch. Although I didn't measure this log's width, it was likely well over 3' across at the butt, perhaps as much as 4'. If we call it 42", then 42" x 50 rings per inch = 2100 years old. Wow.


You are counting the same rings twice. Multiply by the radius, not the diameter. That makes it "only" 1050 years old.

Must be a very slow growing species ?


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## Daninvan (Jun 29, 2010)

mtngun said:


> You are counting the same rings twice. Multiply by the radius, not the diameter. That makes it "only" 1050 years old.
> 
> Must be a very slow growing species ?



Ha! Of course you are right! 1050, just a pup. Had to rep you for that one!


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## DRB (Jun 29, 2010)

Yellow cedar is used for siding on the west coast it holds up better than any thing to salt spray and sideways rain. I have been told that stainless steel nails are needed to last the life of the wood. I does turn to a nice gray color as it weathers.


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## MR4WD (Jun 30, 2010)

Nice work! I mill a lot of yellow cedar in the form of old power poles. It's nice because the wood is stable and dry (been in the air since the '70s and earlier)

I'm on a job in Kimberley right now, but I'm trying to round up a bunch of old yellow cedar poles, around 24-18 DBH and bring them home. This stuff is nice, old tight not, tight grained stuff. I had no idea yellow cedar was so valueable; I know it's better in the campfire than red cedar or douglas fir!


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## BlueRider (Jun 30, 2010)

Funny thing about alaskan yellow cedar (Cupressus nootkatensis) is that it is not really a cedar. for that matter neither is western red, eastern white or tennasee aromatic. This is why it smells more like monterey cypress or port orford cedar (also a cypress)

Actually there are no true cedars native to North America (latin is your friend). We do have quite a few that have been planted here and are growing through out the continent such as deodar cedar, sometimes called himalayan cedar.


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## Daninvan (Jun 30, 2010)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=134078


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## RPM (Jun 30, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=134078



:agree2: Stumped us all on that one


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## RPM (Jun 30, 2010)

MR4WD said:


> I know it's better in the campfire than red cedar or douglas fir!



Thats all anyone burned in the Queen Charlottes ... good btu's!


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## Brmorgan (Jun 30, 2010)

MR4WD said:


> Nice work! I mill a lot of yellow cedar in the form of old power poles. It's nice because the wood is stable and dry (been in the air since the '70s and earlier)
> 
> I'm on a job in Kimberley right now, but I'm trying to round up a bunch of old yellow cedar poles, around 24-18 DBH and bring them home. This stuff is nice, old tight not, tight grained stuff. I had no idea yellow cedar was so valueable; I know it's better in the campfire than red cedar or douglas fir!



Weird that Yellow Cedar poles made it that far into the interior, especially considering that some of the biggest pole operations in BC's history were set up around the Shuswap decades ago, at Chase and Sugar Lake to name a couple.


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## MR4WD (Jun 30, 2010)

Brmorgan said:


> Weird that Yellow Cedar poles made it that far into the interior, especially considering that some of the biggest pole operations in BC's history were set up around the Shuswap decades ago, at Chase and Sugar Lake to name a couple.



Not really, when you think about it; Yellow Cedars are sold all the way down to Florida. I've climbed yellow cedars in Ontario that weren't grown there. I've set 120' cedar poles in Fort McMurray that were driven straight from Vancouver by a husband wife team; Husband driving, wife steering the trailer.

There used to be a pole manufacturer in Kimberley where I'm working now, but they didn't make a stitch of poles on the line that I'm on. Did a job in Revelstoke once, where they make poles and I set a red cedar that came from Sechelt.


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## kevlar (Jul 3, 2010)

I heard that yellow cedar was used for kids climb around toys and such because they are less likely to get slivers from it?By the way very cool post!


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