# Anyone ever chainsaw mill for profit?



## woodshave (Oct 19, 2010)

I use the Alaskan simply because it allows me to mill without moving logs around. Using the 090 though, I do run through a lot of oil and gas not to mention the wear and tear on the back.

So far, I've only done it for myself but a friend suggested I put the ad out there on Craigslist to custom mill for folks. Before I open that bag of snakes I just figured I'd see who, if anyone here, has made that attempt and would care to share their experiences or thoughts on what to do/not to do.

I think he was thinking the really huge stuff the local mills just won't bother with.


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## mtngun (Oct 19, 2010)

There are people milling exotic hardwoods for profit. 

One or two companies in the U.S. mill huge slabs for profit, to make slab tables, etc..

Otherwise, I'm not seeing it.


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## AaronB (Oct 19, 2010)

I thought about it when I first started milling since the tree were free the only cost was gas, oil, chain, etc.

After doing some trees now you would make "some" money but it wouldn't cover the cost of effort it takes to mill a log, from what I can tell. I can do two 8 foot sections in a day, but that is starting early and usually stacking wood in the dark.


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## BobL (Oct 20, 2010)

RE:Anyone ever chainsaw mill for profit?

The main reason I use a CS mill is instead of going to therapy. Therapy costs $150 (or more) an hour. If I go once a week then that's ~$7500 a year. There is no way I spend $7500 a year on CS milling gear or consumables so, yes I figure I have made a significant profit by CS milling.


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## betterbuilt (Oct 20, 2010)

I milled a huge maple burl for a guy. I thought I was charging a fair price for both of us. Well I hit pockets of dirt and it would dull my chain in no time. I ended up with a lot of wear and tear on my saw and chains and a little money, but it wasn't worth it. Oh yeah and your working for someone and they are expecting slabs to be flying of that log so you needlessly pushing your saw.

I now doubled my hourly to cover wear and tear. I usually end up splitting log for band mills to saw. Your best bet is to start small. As for using the internet to find customers, your gonna find most people are looking for a bargain and the other half are gonna waste a lot of your time trying to figure out what your offering them. 

Good luck


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## woodshave (Oct 20, 2010)

BobL said:


> RE:Anyone ever chainsaw mill for profit?
> 
> The main reason I use a CS mill is instead of going to therapy.



Right you are... http://www.logosol.us/cms/downloads/us_freshcut5_2007_feb.pdf

Finn Andersen is not surprised that so many people find the scent from sawing pleasant.
Do You Love the Scent
of Freshly Cut Wood?
“Love is more about scents than anything else,” Finn Andersen says. He is not surprised that so many people find the scent from sawing pleasant.
The name of Finn Andersen’s company in Sweden is Naturkosmetikkompaniet Crearome (translated: Company Crearome). He works in the field of essential oils, both as raw material for industry and for manufacturing the company’s own skin and hair products. Essential oils are found in trees, plants and herbs, and they have many quali- ties besides their scents.
“Juniper oil contains substances that have strong bacteri- cidal qualities,” Finn exemplifies.
In other words, it would be a good idea to make butter knives of juniper. The risk of bacteria growth is less com- pared to the growth on steel knives.
Nevertheless, scent holds a unique position, not only by the pleasure it can give, but also by the processes it starts in the brain and the body. Some reactions are from physi- cal causes, others emanate from awoken memories.
“Everyone who has taken a walk in a pine forest on a warm summer’s day, has experienced that the air is easy to breathe. You are put in a good mood and become clear in thought. This is, to a certain extent, due to essential oils that evaporate from trees and other plants,” Finn says.
If you are sawing a pine tree with your Logosol Sawmill on a warm spring day, you are exposed to these essential oils. Your experience of becoming happy by sawing timber is not a figment of the imagination.
“I also assume that the scent of fresh cut wood awakens childhood memories and creates a sense of security.”
Finn has a past career as a cook, and he knows that good food is more about scent than taste. We can only perceive five tastes, but when it comes to scents we can perceive 10,000. The only thing that distinguishes nettles from herbs is that the latter contain essential oils. In many cases herbs have medical qualities.
”Caraway reduces wind production when you have eaten pea soup,” Finn states.
But we return to the positive effects of the scent from wood being sawn. Scents have an effect on the older part of the brain, and the effect goes, so to speak, right into the heart. We become hopelessly captured by the feeling the scent provokes. The American scientists Richard Axel and Linda B. Buck have gained new knowledge about the function and great importance of the sense of smell. For this work they were awarded the Nobel Prize in medicine in 2004. *


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## betterbuilt (Oct 20, 2010)

The pleasant scent of exhaust fumes is what I get.


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## BobL (Oct 20, 2010)

Wooshave - off the top of my head I'd say Andersen is talking bollocks but . . . . .

Marri has one of the best milling smells around, the young trees smell like fresh Corona beer - I could mill that stuff all day.

Lemon scented gum smells like lemon blossoms.

Casuarinas have a damp earthy smell like fresh mushrooms.

Sugar gum smells like boiled candy.


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## gemniii (Oct 20, 2010)

to the OP
If anything as easy and inexpensive as very basic CSM was worth making money at everyone would be doing it and noone would make money.

It doesn't cost much for startup - My saw, bar, Mark III, chains and files etc. were well under $1000.

It doesn't require much edukation (although I think BobL and mntgun have their PHD's) or special skill set.

The raw materials are easy to come by. Trees are falling all over the place.

The basic finished product has GREAT competition from lumber yards. Sure everybody here brags about not paying lumber yard prices but:


AaronB said:


> I thought about it when I first started milling since the tree were free the only cost was gas, oil, chain, etc.
> 
> After doing some trees now you would make "some" money but it wouldn't cover the cost of effort it takes to mill a log, from what I can tell. I can do two 8 foot sections in a day, but that is starting early and usually stacking wood in the dark.



With minimum wage about $80/day he's writing about two 8' sections per day, and it's only rough, green lumber.

I've read a lot of peeps that pass thru here with questions that use a CSM as the start of getting wood to build furniture, que sticks, pipes, etc. But it's rare that one sees anybody that makes good money just turning standing trees into raw green lumber for sale.

If it was possible then they'd have to issue licenses, make you take tests, and tax the heck out of it.


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## gemniii (Oct 20, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> The pleasant scent of exhaust fumes is what I get.



I love the smell of two stroke fumes on a winter day.


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## DaltonPaull (Oct 20, 2010)

I think the best bet for making money with a CSM is cutting slabs, drying them and selling them. If you want to post an add looking for work you could offer to mill for a split of the slabs.

I've done well at times selling furniture made from my milled wood. I'd rather have the satisfaction of working with my milled wood before (or if) I sell it.


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## VT-Woodchuck (Oct 20, 2010)

BobL said:


> RE:Anyone ever chainsaw mill for profit?
> 
> The main reason I use a CS mill is instead of going to therapy. Therapy costs $150 (or more) an hour. If I go once a week then that's ~$7500 a year. There is no way I spend $7500 a year on CS milling gear or consumables so, yes I figure I have made a significant profit by CS milling.



BobL - I like your way of thinking!!!!!:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:


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## betterbuilt (Oct 20, 2010)

Cute


gemniii said:


> I love the smell of two stroke fumes on a winter day.



I love the second you finish the first cut and slide the slab off. Its always gets me. I get to see a tree from its birth to its death. 


BobL I was thinking today and you know this forum is kinda like therapy.


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## deeker (Oct 21, 2010)

Even with a bandsaw it is hard to make profits without huge amounts of lumber being produced. 

Local markets are funny, right now most of my stuff is cut for timber frame homes and porches. My secondary market is furniture and craft wood.

I agree that making much money with a CSM would be extremely hard at best.

It does pay for itself with "own use" lumber. From trees that will not be used any other way.

Kevin


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## gemniii (Oct 21, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> I love the second you finish the first cut and slide the slab off. Its always gets me. I get to see a tree from its birth to its death.



Yes, but it takes a LONG time. I planted that tree about 1984. The cutting is just another step in the process to it's next stage. I'm presently building a crude workbench for my grinder/breaker/spinner setup pictured here, to replace the workmate.






And I envision that if I live long enough I'll burn it in a fireplace in about 30 years.


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## betterbuilt (Oct 21, 2010)

gemniii said:


> Yes, but it takes a LONG time. I planted that tree about 1984.
> And I envision that if I live long enough I'll burn it in a fireplace in about 30 years.



I wasn't talking about harvesting a tree that I planted. Most of the trees I do are 60-150+ years old. I doubt I could wait that long. I meant actually seeing the rings of a tree for the first time. The stuff that's hidden. The grain, color, all the hidden things.


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## imagineero (Oct 21, 2010)

That's an often asked and tricky question!

The short answer is no. The long answer is maybe.

Men whose families have been in logging and milling and have generations of experience in timber are going broke and leaving the game all over the place. That ought to tell you something right there.

If you mill for yourself and your time is worth nothing and you have trees on your own property and you live far from anywhere then milling your own lumber is probably cheaper than buying your own lumber. But only if your time is worth nothing ;-) You can mill up your own lumber in sizes that will work for your building project. Lumber is getting poorer and poorer in quality these days, I build for a living and wont buy from most hardwares as there's only one or two decent pieces of lumber in a whole stack, the prices are too high, and its all rapid grown with wide rings and prone to deform over time. I buy my lumber recycled from old buildings. Its cheaper, incredibly dense and strong and will outlast me unlike most modern timber which will be ready for bulldozing in 25 years. I dont know what I'll do when they run out of old buildings to demolish, I wont have a source of good lumber anymore. Most new houses are compressed fibre cement, steel, brick, hebel etc nowadays anyway.

If you want to sell standard lumber forget it. A chainsaw mill is so wasteful, slow and inefficient that there will never be money in it, even if you completely forget about the cost of your equipment. With a bandmill you stand some chance, but compared to a commercial milling yard your still like an infant fighting mike tyson ;-) Plus beyond milling you need to learn about and invest in identifying species (confusing), grading (complex!), selecting logs (a black science), learning how to really mill (not just slabbing!) drying (a whole area of expertise there!), transport, developing markets and making sales (a gift some people are born with). That's a lot of infrastructure to develop, and you'll still be very inefficient compared to the big boys. Traditional timber processors have all these things already developed and have usually found the most efficient and cheapest way to do everything. Just ask the big boys how they're doing, it doesnt look good! Your product will likely be inferior in grade, moisture content and finish for years to come.

So where is the money? In things that nobody thinks to sell. You're not going to be doing veneer grade black walnut with your chainsaw (I hope!) so forget about that high end stuff, but think more about things that are interesting. carvers and turners are always looking for interesting grain and shapes. It doesn't have to be big to be worth a lot of money, which cuts down on your hours. There's no profitable market for clear straight dense grain boring lumber with a CSM, but there's a surprising amount of interest in character. Look for trees that catch your eye. Loearn a little about species and drying. Unusual knotty slabs, beautiful pieces that can be used as a shelf, chair or table will sell for comparatively a lot of money.

It takes a bit of an eye, some luck, or some skill to select and harvest interesting pieces of timber. Look at carvers and turners works, look at what is selling in rustic tables and chairs as a start for species and parts of trees. If you can find some new way of harvesting and using an interesting part of a tree then you're onto something. I've seen BOBL do some interesting things with his lumber, he's onto the right idea. 

Best of luck!
Shaun


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## gemniii (Oct 21, 2010)

imagineero said:


> If you mill for yourself and your time is worth nothing and you have trees on your own property and you live far from anywhere then milling your own lumber is probably cheaper than buying your own lumber. But only if your time is worth nothing ;-)



There are also "special" circumstances for CSM, but few make money.
In my case my goals are "renovating" about 400 acres of land in Mississippi and 75 in Vermont. I need ATV size trails cut, food plots created, deer stands built. For the trails and plots I've got to fell trees. For the stands I've got to get wood. To fell the trees I needed a chainsaw (or two, or three). To get the wood I was looking at buying low quality wood from the local lumberyard, and then handling and hauling it in. 

After milling the trees I've felled and milled I've found the biggest problem is in carefully felling a tree in a suburban setting, so it doesn't hit the fence, the house, the neighbors lot, etc. Once it's down milling takes a more setup than cutting firewood. But not much more than splitting it. 

So to accomplish my goals I was originally looking at having to cut trees down, cut and split for firewood, haul them out over narrow trails I've built, and buy lumber and haul it in. Some had suggested using the trees to build log home style shelters, but that's a waste of wood.

Plus it's fun.


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## lostcoastland (Oct 27, 2010)

*Wooded*

I'm amazed by the amount of wood that goes to firewood .people dont really see trees as resources like they used to and consider it crude. people just love convience but a real wood worker will blend in some CSM touches..definetly liking the look for mantles and that natural edge is really in these days


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## rmount (Oct 27, 2010)

Not in North America, we value our labour much to highly to turn a profit from CSM. But in many parts of the world where labour is worth very little and usable products are scarce and valuable having a CSM would be a very worthwhile investment. I remember an article in the Logosol newsletter a few years ago about someone in Russia using a CSM to cut railway ties. It was a new line and they were moving down the railbed a day or so ahead of the rail laying gang and cutting and milling as they went. No way could you do that over here.


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## Brmorgan (Oct 29, 2010)

rmount said:


> Not in North America, we value our labour much to highly to turn a profit from CSM. But in many parts of the world where labour is worth very little and usable products are scarce and valuable having a CSM would be a very worthwhile investment. I remember an article in the Logosol newsletter a few years ago about someone in Russia using a CSM to cut railway ties. It was a new line and they were moving down the railbed a day or so ahead of the rail laying gang and cutting and milling as they went. No way could you do that over here.



Oh good heavens, that would be slow going! But better than hewing them with an axe like they still did around here until the early '50s.

I've done a couple small milling jobs for friends and come away with a few bucks in hand, but not enough that I would consider it profitable. Cutting custom beams and timbers is the best bet if you can find a market and access to cheap timber though; big pieces carry higher prices, and the fewer cuts with a CSM the better.


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## imagineero (Oct 29, 2010)

manual work of most kinds doesn't really pay that well, and work with a chainsaw seems to pay less than average. There's something about it that attracts good hardworking types with ethics but not a whole lot of sense. The types of guys who don't look into the figures far enough to see that if they were factoring all the usual benefits that full time employment paid into their hourly rate (vehicle, tax, capital outlay for startup, depreciation, fully burdened operating costs, superannuation, workers comp, insurance, sick leave, holiday pay etc etc) they would be getting slightly less than a 13 year old working at McDonalds ;-) Im guilty as charged of all the above offences, but we do the job because we love it, right? Most guys would be just at home cutting stuff up for no money if they weren't employed in tree work.

There's a joke thats been getting around for a while now, can't remember the exact wording of it, but it illustrates nicely the ironic nature of doing anything with a chainsaw for profit;

A news reporter was interviewing a tree worker who'd just one a million dollars in the lottery.

reporter : "so, now that you've won the lottery, are you planning on quitting your job?"

tree guy "no, ill probably just keep working until all the money's gone"


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## gemniii (Oct 29, 2010)

imagineero said:


> work with a chainsaw seems to pay less than average. There's something about it that attracts good hardworking types with ethics but not a whole lot of sense.


So since you are writing here does that mean you "don't have a whole lot of sense"?


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## imagineero (Oct 29, 2010)

gemniii said:


> So since you are writing here does that mean you "don't have a whole lot of sense"?



As mentioned above, I'm guilty on all counts. I'm blessed with far less sense than the average person  I've often taken lowe paying and non paying jobs in my life because I enjoyed them and felt privileged to be doing them, despite knowing that there were better paying jobs on offer. Better paying jobs often leave me having trouble looking myself in the eye in the mirror each morning on the way to work (done a few of those too!)

Shaun


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## billstuewe (Oct 31, 2010)

What is profit????
At the beginning of the year I blew the piston in my 084 into 90+ pieces and had a milling job that was suppose to bring in $500 "when it dried up enough to get to the tree". My wife (God Bless Her) said I had to get a new saw because of the upcoming job, so I ordered an 880. So far since April I have brought in $2150 milling with it (but the $500 job fell through)----So I have made a profit over the cost of the saw...?? and had some fun doing it (See the link "Chainsawmillers dream" if you have not already). A week after I got the saw a guy called me and had a 46"x 12' water oak that he wanted 4 slabs from and the rest milled into 4/4. During this time I have also sawn over 20 logs of my own, most over 24" in diameter and 8' or more long.
I run and add in Craigslist: CUSTOM SAWMILLING---Custom sawmilling of trees ou to 69" in diameter. Can be sawn on location or brought to me.

I charge $50/hr including travel time.
FUN!


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## GLOBOTREE (Oct 31, 2010)

*The Woodsman*

Black Walnut ~ checkin the grains for a supplier~ we removed this beautiful Tree sitting beside a Garage, The nuts were dropping on the roof and driving the roots into the footings of the building(textbook). The general understanding is if a Tree is beside a garage like this was, potentially...someone, anyone...could have drove a nail or tied a hose or screwed a sign~ anything right into the precious woods. Like mentioned earlier the millman will say"if the log is inthe urban forest shes got no chance to see any of our blade, then the log value goes way down~ANYWAYS~ the wood was good once I sliced er open was plain for the eye to see! wonderful wavy purple and blacks striped Walnut woodjuglans. I telephoned my man and explained the beauty~ he agreed to look at the cross cut piece. SOLD~ i turned the log into a woodworkers dream~ a man fully equipped to manhandle this awesome slice of nature all of a sudden has this mint score when we wood have otherwise had some black firewood~ profitable? where do measure ? i blew an engine~ dulled a few teeth and had a good workout, the harvest table that sits 16 is a wonder on its own to each who sits.  The Woodsman


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