# Fair price for standing hardwood firewood??



## ontario026 (Nov 5, 2005)

I am thinking of posting a few ads locally, or maybe putting some fliers in farm mailboxes, etc in an attempt to find a source for firewood. I am looking for someone with acreage or a woodlot that I could cut probably 3.5-4 cords a year for my own personal use. 

What would a fair price per cord be to offer a landowner for decent standing hardwood?? 

I would probably like to leave it all piled (probably on skids) once cut, then transport once the volume was determined by both myself and the landowner to be fair so they know they are not getting shorted etc....

I was thinking somewhere around 75$ can per cord? Since if I bought Cord wood by the truckload it would be a bit over 100$ per cord, but it would be delivered to my property, so I figure 75$ or so would be a little savings, plus the exercise would do me good....
Thanks for any input


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## Newfie (Nov 5, 2005)

I think $75 a cord for standing firewood is way too much. Think about all your labor involved to fell,limb,buck, skid, block, and split. Is you time only worth $25 a cord?

If any kind of cleanup is involved (chipping tops etc. ) they pay me to cut their stumpage. If no clean-up maybe $10-15 a cord tops. Straight landclearing the wood is mine and the pay me for my time.

Cutting wood is fun, but value your time.


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## ajc4 (Nov 6, 2005)

Do you mean face cord or full cord? Around here a face cord (8'x4'x18'' stacked) is $50, more delivered. A full cord is 8'x4'x4', about 3 face cord. -- I'll assume from the prices you mentioned that you mean face cord.

I would agree with newfile. $10 to $15 tops, maybe a bit more if you meant full cord. Most of the value in firewood is the equipment and labor, not in the wood itself. If you agree to only take recently downed, dead trees or trees otherwise not valuable for timber you should be able to find ample supply cheap or free. I would try to price it by the pickup truck load (or whatever) rather of going through the hassle of stacking the wood on thier lot, picking it up, re-stacking it at your place -- too much work to handle it that many times.

Do keep your eyes open for people clearing lots, blow downs in someone's yard, tops left behind in recently logged lots. Inquire with local tree services -- in my area people often pay to have wood like this disposed of and are happy to give it away. Also ask local farmers in your area if you can have blow-downs in thier hedge rows. Because hedge rows are unprotected from wind they blow down into the fields all the time. Situations like this are also much less work (and usually safer) than skidding logs out of the woods.


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## PLAYINWOOD (Nov 6, 2005)

I agree with the above 2 posts 026.I only live 45 mins from you and the going rate here is 30 to 35 $ truckload for soft (red) maple in the swamps.I know of no one doing the same with hardwood but i would guess 10$ more would be fair.Remember this also means zero cleanup!!!! Approach a farmer and offer 25$ for dead elm(its all over the place) that would also include throwing brush back in the fenceline.Maybe find a farm where logging has concluded. Offer to clean up the tops. jeff


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm paying $5 a cord/F.S. Permit + $10 gas to get there and back + $1.20 for doughnuts.

Also wood for free is available if you keep your eyes peeled.


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## ontario026 (Nov 6, 2005)

I was referring to full cords 4'x4'x8' for 75$ or so.... Approx 25$ per face cord. I burn 10-12 face cords per year, so I'd need 3.5-4 full cords a year... Maybe a little more first year to get a little stockpile going on, Ideally I would like to cut/split/stack elsewhere and transport home once dry and stack directly into my woodshed when I bring it home... 

I do not have a pickup right now, just car and trailer, so when time permitted /days off etc,I would use car and trailer to haul the quad and saws to the site, cut/skid/stack what I feel like in a day, then return home with car and quad... Once the wood is ready to be transported home, then just car and trailer would be needed or a borrowed dump truck from my brother in law...

So 25$ for face cord / 75$ per full cord may be a bit high?


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## Newfie (Nov 6, 2005)

Way high$$$$$ 3-4 times too high. But like we've said if you value your labor at next to nil, you're spot on. 95% of the value in a cord of cut split delivered firewood is in the labor and fuel.


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## ontario026 (Nov 6, 2005)

maybe I will offer 20$ per face cord/60$ per full cord then.... To me that is a pretty good deal, since it is for my personal home heating, I'm not looking to resell to make money... At that price it would only cost me 200-240$ per year to heat my house, which I consider to be extremely reasonable. Plus actually cutting the trees/skidding/bucking etc will give me something to do on my days off this winter, and I know for a fact that I could use the excersie...


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## Newfie (Nov 6, 2005)

You asked our opinion for a fair price. But it's your money so go nuts if you want.


I got a price from a contractor to put an addition on the house for $100K. I'm thinking of asking him if he will take $75K to drop off the lumber and I'll frame it myself. I'll be saving some money and get a good workout at the same time.


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## ajc4 (Nov 7, 2005)

Your numbers pretty high Ontario. Wood in my area is high at $50 per face + delivery compared to where you are. As I said, $10 to $15 per face would be TOPS. No more than that for sure. In fact, because firewood is cheaper in your area, that is probably actually too high. I can easily find more wood than I can use for free, but I have been burning wood for years, so whenever somone that knows me has a tree go down that they want rid of, they call me. They get the tree hauled away for free (less the brush, I've nerver been asked to remove the brush) and i get free wood. -- You will find as you get into this your supply of wood will snowball like that. I acually had a neighbor block up some limbs that the power company trimmed off of his tree, load it up & bring it to me!

If I were in your position I would offer $20 for a full cord to get some wood to get your supply started. That should be a fair price. Spending more than that would be rather philanthropic of you.

You said:
"At that price it would only cost me 200-240$ per year ..."

Like I said before (and you'll find out as you get into this), the major cost of timber products, firewood, lumber, whatever is in the equipment & labor, not the timber. Research the price of standing timber vs lumber, pulpwood vs paper, etc. There are a lot of hidden costs. A ruined saw bar, or a few chains, or a flat tire will each cost you $50 to $100 or more. Gas to trailer your wood around. You will have to repair and maintain your equipment. It will add up even if you dont value your time. I seized the engine on my saw this year (foolish operator error, but mistakes happen). Cost $110 for the parts to fix. I was lucky. Would have been over $200 if I had done any more damage to the cylinder. If your serious about switching to wood, you WILL get a splitter, sooner or later. Some dense & stringy hardwoods are impossible to split by hand. Even in easy splitting varieties, any novelty or fun in hand splitting will have disappeared by the first few face cord and you will be sore, exhaused. The cheapest gas splitter you'll find is $1000 (and woth every penny). So it adds up. Just because it grows on trees doesnt mean its free.

Since you seem to be just getting started in firewood, I'll add my $0.02. If your going to be using the wood this year, stick to dead / down trees. Green wood just doenst burn well. If you can, cover the stacks. An auning off of a shed is ideal. Plywood on top works OK. Tarps can work, but you want the tarp only on top of the pile, not over the sides. I find it works the best if the wind can blow trough the stack (no walls) but the rain / snow is kept off from above. There is nothing wose than frozen together, wet, soggy wood. You will be very unhappy with wet or green wood. I burn both soft & hard wood (for free you can't be picky), both work fine. Hard is a bit longer burning, but it all gests hot. I just say this because you said you only wanted hardwood. Dead & partially seasoned softwood would be wayyyyy better than green hardwood.


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## ajc4 (Nov 7, 2005)

Actually, probably a lot of the confusion here is due to face vs full cords, & regional differences in the price of firewood. Perhaps we should all swith to pricing as a percentage:

I would say that 10% the price of seasoned firewood in your area would be reasonable. Up to 25% max, and only if you are desperate for wood. -- I would guess. Do the other posters in this thread agree? 

This is a rather interesting post, to me. I have noticed a few of my neighbors putting in wood stoves, and many that used to only use thier fireplace for "recreation" are getting more serious. If heating oil stays high (or higher), the freebies may get to be harder to come by and paying for "raw" firewood may become more common. What do you think? Has anyone here ever actually bought firewood in the field and have real numbers?


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 7, 2005)

Here's where the problem lies and I don't want to be the turd in the salad bowl.
But who of us would sell a woodtick off the street 3-4 cords per year for 10/crd?
Nobody, that's who. Not unless you knew the person and you had the wood at your disposal to begin with.
However, if you had 30 cords laying in tops whitin your woodlot, 75$ would sound quite attractive even though commercialy it's only worth 10-20$/cord depending on species, acsess, etc.
When I say cord I mean 128 cu.ft., not that rinkey dink term facecord conjured up by some nursery.
There is no shortage of woodticks, firemen, cops etc, who would be more than happy to satiate that badboy image with the pickup truck, chainsaw, load of wood thing by paying 75$/cord.It's recreation for them and they aren't doing it commercialy.
Plus, part timers are the scourge of any industry. So make them pay!!! 
LOL
John


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## turnkey4099 (Nov 7, 2005)

Gypo Logger said:


> Here's where the problem lies and I don't want to be the turd in the salad bowl.
> But who of us would sell a woodtick off the street 3-4 cords per year for 10/crd?
> Nobody, that's who. Not unless you knew the person and you had the wood at your disposal to begin with.
> However, if you had 30 cords laying in tops whitin your woodlot, 75$ would sound quite attractive even though commercialy it's only worth 10-20$/cord depending on species, acsess, etc.
> ...



Amen to that! It torques me no end to see discussions referring to 'face cords', 'ricks', 'loads'. Those are all illegal measures that were developed to fleece the customer. As for selling stumpage - not for any 10-20 per cord if it is my wood lot.

Harry K


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## rmihalek (Nov 7, 2005)

Hey 026,

My guess is if you asked 10 local tree service companies if they can give you the wood from local jobs that one or two of them would be glad to oblige. I've come home from work several times to find 3, 4 or 5 cords laying on my 1/4 acre yard. Don't be surprised if some of the wood is punky and if there are cigarette butts, coffee cups, broken chains and ropes laying in with the wood. Also, it's residential wood, so there's lots of metal. But it's free and it (usually) burns.

You'll get your exercise bucking, splitting and stacking!

Bob


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## PLAYINWOOD (Nov 7, 2005)

Rmihalec,here you will never get a tree co. to give away wood.They sell all the wood as firewood and are the most expensive.Ontario heed my last post and start with farmers to clean up the dead elm.Offer the farmer 50 $ a 128 cord and clean up.Usually they will give you the wood.You have lots of farmers north of brockville.Pull up in their driveway and have a chat.jeff


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## Whiteindustries (Nov 7, 2005)

*In Mass you can get wood from the Arborist.*



PLAYINWOOD said:


> Rmihalec,here you will never get a tree co. to give away wood.They sell all the wood as firewood and are the most expensive.Ontario heed my last post and start with farmers to clean up the dead elm.Offer the farmer 50 $ a 128 cord and clean up.Usually they will give you the wood.You have lots of farmers north of brockville.Pull up in their driveway and have a chat.jeff



In the Northeast part of Massachusetts what I have seen is either the Arborist will process firewood(The least desirable/profitable work) or they have to pay to dump, up to $250 per truck load around here.The exception being any decent logs they might sell to a local mill or they sell or give to the firewood guys.
Driving around cost money!Storing the logs cost money!They have already been paid to take down and remove the trees, allot more than they would make making firewood out of them.
At $250,000 an acre for commercial it is expensive to stock pile logs.


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## ajc4 (Nov 7, 2005)

Gypo, your comments ring true. I should clarify that what I was suggesting was only for dead & down wood, limbs. I would not expect anyone to part with live trees, or otherwise useful logs for that price. I have never had to cut a good tree out of the woods for firewood. There are always deads and downers that sit & rot away before anyone even knows they are there. As long as they havent been down for more than 2 or 3 years ist usually good wood.

I dont know of any tree service in my area that does firewood. They get paid too much for the other work they do to mess around with it.


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## spencerhenry (Nov 7, 2005)

no hardwoods here in western colorado. but i NEVER pay for firewood. i usually get paid to get rid of it.
like i have been telling customers for years, the wood isnt worth anything, what you are paying for is my time.


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## Rocko (Nov 8, 2005)

your cleaning up there property,therefore doing them a huge favour,the wood should be free


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## PLAYINWOOD (Nov 24, 2005)

Whiteindustries said:


> In the Northeast part of Massachusetts what I have seen is either the Arborist will process firewood(The least desirable/profitable work) or they have to pay to dump, up to $250 per truck load around here.The exception being any decent logs they might sell to a local mill or they sell or give to the firewood guys.
> Driving around cost money!Storing the logs cost money!They have already been paid to take down and remove the trees, allot more than they would make making firewood out of them.
> At $250,000 an acre for commercial it is expensive to stock pile logs.


In our part of the country,an "arborist" would charge 1000$ to remove a reasonably simple large residential tree.lets say sugar maple.It dosent cost anything to dump because the municipallity grinds it and sells it to nurseries as mulch.So said tree company takes wood home and it creates rainy,windy,snowy day work for the boys.2 hours later you have a stacked cord and voila.... its fall and you sell it for 300$.The local tree guy lives on 100 acre farm with lots of room and last year sold 300 cord.Do the math.jeff


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## DanManofStihl (Nov 24, 2005)

We can get a face cord split and cut for $100 if you buy it in bulk at 3 or more cords a time. I think $25.0 a cord is very resonable considering cutting haulin fuel time and spliting thats alot of work especally for alittle more money you can have it droped off at you residence. Thats just my opinion.


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## spacemule (Nov 26, 2005)

turnkey4099 said:


> Amen to that! It torques me no end to see discussions referring to 'face cords', 'ricks', 'loads'. Those are all illegal measures that were developed to fleece the customer. As for selling stumpage - not for any 10-20 per cord if it is my wood lot.
> 
> Harry K


BS. 95% of wood here is sold by the "rick," which is an agreed upon size. Why in the hell would this irritate you? Virtually NO woodburner wants a true cord, because a cord consists of 4' sections. Most people want their wood pre processed. If it is not 4' sections, it is not a cord.


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## Crofter (Nov 26, 2005)

Somebody must have access to Spacemule's password! That ain't him.

Another possibility to get wood is to offer to cut some for the landowner also on a shares basis. There may be a few people getting on in years or too busy, who would welcome that proposition. After you do it for a short while you will realize your price is a way high. It is not nearly that much fun after the novelty wears off and the costs come home to roost.

Frank


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## ShoerFast (Nov 26, 2005)

A cord is a cord!
Selling firewood is a great cash job! But it dose erk me to hear how some rip there customers off,,,,, but they do get away with it! Its more then just a good feeling to drop off a true cord to someone that just cant believe how much wood you brought them. Its when they make sure that they have your phone number down right and when you start getting calls from ther friends that you job was done right!
Here are just a couple links what you can bet people that buy firewood can also find,,,,,
http://www.**********/what/firewood.html
http://www.jsonline.com/homes/interior/nov99/consummate-c111299.asp?format=print
http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html
Do the people that sell undersized cords make up for the waight buy selling it green?


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## woodfarmer (Nov 27, 2005)

*firewood*

026, give Domtar or Tembec a call, they are the end user of the majority of the logging in Ontario and may be able to recommend recently logged bushes in your are for tops to clean up for free. there is too much wood available to need to pay anyone.


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