# I need advice



## chuckp (Nov 7, 2012)

Hurricane Sandy really took it's toll on me. I lost about 20 very big oaks and hickories. I can't really get near most of them. My land is rocky, hilly and wet.
How do I salvage the trees for firewood?
I have an old 2wd backhoe, an 8n, a light duty quad, a pickup. 
I wonder if its possible to cable from tree to access and use a pulley or something.
Please help with some ideas.


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## slowp (Nov 7, 2012)

View attachment 261309

Kind of kidding, but--
A few of the retired, busted up old loggers (BUOLs) here have blocks and lines. They hang a block up in a sturdy tree, run what we call haywire through it, hook on a choker, hook choker to log, hook other end of line to pickup trailer hitch, and pull up the chunks. 

Haywire is small diameter cable. 

Now look at the yarder picture. The higher up you have your block, the more lift you will get. Also, the ground shape will determine lift. Lift=payload. 

You will probably have to use a human haulback. That would be a person pulling the line back down the hill to the logs. Young people make good haulbacks, although they may whine a bit. 

Gologit and Big Bad Bob operated a Ford Toyota yarding system at Spotted Owl's gtg. One of them may want to chime in. They didn't have much lift, and a Toyota bumper was redesigned a little bit.

Disclaimer: I am merely a retired forester.


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## chuckp (Nov 7, 2012)

I have quite a bit of 3/8" winching cable that I can tighten with a chain come-a-long. If I hook a pully up to it and have gravity on my side (downhill), that should probably work to haul out aprox. 4-5 foot pcs. right?


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## Gologit (Nov 7, 2012)

chuckp said:


> I have quite a bit of 3/8" winching cable that I can tighten with a chain come-a-long. If I hook a pully up to it and have gravity on my side (downhill), that should probably work to haul out aprox. 4-5 foot pcs. right?



Dunno...it would depend on the diameter. Green wood is heavy. 

If you could post some pictures of your layout it would help us give you better advice.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 7, 2012)

I have moved allot of wood with my old beat to Hel 9n (It recently got a fresh coat of spray paint over the moss). If you can back up to the log just tie a chain around it and the three point, lift er up and drive away, if not hanging a snatch block in a tree and pulling em in that way works pretty good, you don't need a bunch of lift, the more the merrier, 20-30 feet is plenty more than enough. 200' of 1/4 - 5/16 cable is not prohibitively expensive, and very handy to have around anyway, should hold up to most of the load you plan on putting it through. Make sure the tree you hang a block in still has firm roots, it won't by the time you're through with it, if at all sketchy put a couple guy lines in it. Wish I still had pictures of my tractor yarding days... and the arch I made is about 60 miles from home logging ceder on a friends place...


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## Philbert (Nov 7, 2012)

Sorry for your loss of trees.

Without seeing your land and where the trees are, here are a few thoughts:

- Stay safe. If the trees are too big or beyond your ability, leave them;
- Consider hiring someone with more experience or equipment to bring the logs up to where you can handle them. Might save you some time too;
- Log arch. Might pay for itself just from this project;
- Make an access trail for your ATV.
- Invest in a good winch and lots of cable. Get some pulleys to redirect the pull, but be careful trying to lift logs up high;
- Buy or make one of the plastic nose cones to help drag your logs without hanging up;
- Wait for snow and pull them like the old timers;
- Cut/split them up into smaller pieces and buy/borrow/devise some type of basket, trailer or a large, plastic game sled to drag the pieces with the winch to where you can get them.

Philbert


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## chuckp (Nov 8, 2012)

I like the idea of stringing the 3/8" winch cable real tight with a chain come-a-long, and using a trolley snatch block to carry the bucked wood pieces to a landing point. Downhill of course. If I can get proper height, I think this would work.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 8, 2012)

I have heard of using this method for moving cedar shakes and shingle blocks. Kinda like a zip line, only with wood. For it to work you would have to have the wood completely off the ground through the entire length of its slide, and some moderately steep fall to it. If the wood gets hung up on anything it will pretty much stop dead in its tracks and then you get to wrestle it down hill. The other problem is either getting the wood to you're zip line or moving the zip line for every stick, actually this sound like more work than its worth to me. Dragging cable through the woods taint to bad, dragging logs by hand is a bastard.


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## Dave Boyt (Nov 8, 2012)

A lot depends on what you are willing to invest in equipment. A chainsaw powered Lewis winch is really handy, and there are some PTO powered winches that would work. I use one on my old 8N Ford, and it gets along fine. It is easier and safer to winch uphill, since the logs won't try to roll sideways. A log arch is also good, and can be used in combination with the winch, as well as moving the logs once you get them to the tractor.

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff490/dboyt54/Logging/Skidding/P1060893s.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff490/dboyt54/Logging/Skidding/P1060887s.jpg


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## slowp (Nov 8, 2012)

Gravity is not always your friend. Note how slowly the logs move in this video. Be sure to have a runout on flat ground so the chunks do not slam into you, or your pickup, or whatever. Another thing, if it is steep ground, you have to be careful about the rootwads of blowdown. They are inclined to roll and move on a slope. 

Here is a downhill yarding clip.

[video=youtube;qFkx6jbks0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkx6jbks0k&feature=share&list=UU9mFXlXjEJvJoCImQvFXVSg[/video]


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## Humptulips (Nov 8, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> I have heard of using this method for moving cedar shakes and shingle blocks. Kinda like a zip line, only with wood. For it to work you would have to have the wood completely off the ground through the entire length of its slide, and some moderately steep fall to it. If the wood gets hung up on anything it will pretty much stop dead in its tracks and then you get to wrestle it down hill. The other problem is either getting the wood to you're zip line or moving the zip line for every stick, actually this sound like more work than its worth to me. Dragging cable through the woods taint to bad, dragging logs by hand is a bastard.



Did that about 40 years ago. Never tried it again. It doesn't work very good.

Chuck, 
How far do you have to go with the wood to get it to the road?


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## rmh3481 (Nov 9, 2012)

Here is some info on a Lewis winch. Bailey's - Lewis Chainsaw Winch Model 400


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## chuckp (Nov 9, 2012)

I've mounted a 12,000# electric winch on my backhoe loader. I have a marine battery and a high output alternator. Works ok, but a real pain on keeping the cable wound properly, and the cable kinks often.
The distance varies, but the I'd say 200-300 ft. would get me to where I can handle the wood. Some areas have a steep grade (downhill pull), There is big rocks, and wet areas.
The thought came up on hiring a skidder for a day. I don't really know if that would be feasible. 
This hurricane really messed things up. Where the big oaks and hickories uprooted, there are holes that look like giant bombed out craters. Some of the really big trees I'll just have to leave as a helicopter would be the only possibility.


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## Dave Boyt (Nov 9, 2012)

Capstan winches also work well, are lighter, easier to take the rope out to the woods, and doesn't tangle on the reel.






Here's the link to Bailey's chain saw powered capstan winch. They also have capstan winches with 4-stroke engines. I'd also recommend either logging tongs or a choker to fasten the winch line to the logs. Snatch blocks let you winch up in a zig-zag pattern to avoid obstacles. Some release automatically so you don't have to walk back to take off the pulley.

Here are some videos of the winches in action:
capstan winch video
Snatch block video


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## slowp (Nov 9, 2012)

I wish we could all take a field trip. 

How about some pictures? Detailed maps? A cruise and estimate of the value? :msp_smile:


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## chuckp (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm trying to get my daughter to take some pictures. 
What I found that does work very well are snatch blocks and winch cable. Pulling with my backhoe. Especially downhill where possible. That's probably the most powerful option I have.


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## Humptulips (Nov 10, 2012)

I'd forget about the Lewis winch and for that matter the electric winch you mention.
Lewis winch is slow. OK for an occasional pull but you will soon tire of it plus they don't hold enough line for you. You mentioned 300'. That's about three pulls for the lewis winch. 
Those electric winches won't hold up to the amount of work you seem to have. You'll get sick of pulling the line up the hill. Also downhill you'll have hangups and your blocks/logs slipping out of the choker.
For firewood I think I would just hand throw it down the hill. I know a lot of work but you can dink around with winch and not get anything done or just go to work and slowly get it done.

Don't want to work that hard? Hire that skidder you mentioned.


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## chuckp (Nov 10, 2012)

I have done that, I was cutting up a big hickory and I'd roll the 3 foot logs down the hill to a rock wall. Worked good.
My TLB is indespensible, I wish she were 4wd. Pulls like a team of mules, and then there's the loader. As long as I can get to safe dry land I can do the job with cables and snatch blocks.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 10, 2012)

using the old tractor, or whatever to pull the logs with a long bit of cable, works pretty good. Way quicker than most winches especially once you get the weight off the ground a tiny bit. sounds like your getting the hand of it. How bad is it over there? I don't get much news.


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## chuckp (Nov 10, 2012)

Just had a Noreaster, got off easy as far as snow. The hurricane was really bad. Living inland I didn't get much rain but we got the wind.


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## Eric B (Nov 30, 2012)

A 3 point hitch skidding winch is handy. Farmi Winches - Skidding Winch - YouTube


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## chuckp (Nov 30, 2012)

I've been using 3/8" cables and plenty of snatch blocks. It's working out but real tough on to do alone.


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