# True storie's, Really?



## jefflovstrom (Jun 23, 2012)

I thought I would start a thread that deal's with everyday stupidity and unusual event's that happen during the day that sometime's get over looked in the other thread. I will start. :msp_ohmy:

So, I got a good groundie that used to alway's be 1 minute late. I put the hammer down and told him I would write him up if he is not in the yard by 6:30am.
That was about a year ago. Since then, he has been wrote up about 8 time's.
The first time was when I enforced this and he came in the yard at 6:31am. 
I wrote him up for being late and his response was, "Only a minute"!
So I asked him if he was late, and he said,"only a minute!"
Clueless! He understand's that if he is gonna be late to call me before time. He also called ahead of time of being late alot, like he understood.
So,I fax the write up to the corporate office and the owner called me and asked why I wrote him up for being 1 minute late. Thought it was kinda harsh.
So I asked what define's being late? He agreed with me.
Anyway, fast forward to yesterday. It is 6:35am and no show or call. So I call him. Ring's alot and goes to voice so I hang up and changing crew size. Not 1 minute later he calls me and say's,"What?"
I asked, "Where are you and you are late."
He said," I just woke up. I will be there in 5 minute's."
So he show;s up 15 minute's later and I told him I had to write him up for being late. 
He said that was un-fair because he was asleep and could not call in, because he was asleep!
Really?
Really!
"How can I call in if I am asleep?"
Really?
Yeah.
He declined to sign the write up and went into the office at the end of the day to complain that he was un-fairly wrote up for not calling in because he was asleep!
Really!
Jeff


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## treemandan (Jun 23, 2012)

I got one:

One time I worked for this ####ing ####head ####### mother####er who was so anal he would be upset if I was 1 minute late for work. So I quit after he told the corparate office on me . Then he starts calling me, waking me up , wondering where I was. I told I was sleepin and I guess he didn't get the ####ing memo. if he keeps harrassing me I am gonna file a complaint. Big crazy looking sob too, I think he's outside my window now. :msp_biggrin:


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 23, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I got one:
> 
> One time I worked for this ####ing ####head ####### mother####er who was so anal he would be upset if I was 1 minute late for work. So I quit after he told the corparate office on me . Then he starts calling me, waking me up , wondering where I was. I told I was sleepin and I guess he didn't get the ####ing memo. if he keeps harrassing me I am gonna file a complaint. Big crazy looking sob too, I think he's outside my window now. :msp_biggrin:



I don't think you got my point.
It is not about you or your weird way's. 
LOL!
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## treemandan (Jun 23, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> I don't think you got my point.
> It is not about you or your weird way's.
> LOL!
> Jeff :msp_biggrin:




I never like to be late nor visa versa but Jeff, IT WAS ONLY A MINUTE! Sounds like you just should have set yer watch back one minute. It would have saved us all.:msp_biggrin:


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## Rakoprtr (Jun 23, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I got one:
> 
> One time I worked for this ####ing ####head ####### mother####er who was so anal he would be upset if I was 1 minute late for work. So I quit after he told the corparate office on me . Then he starts calling me, waking me up , wondering where I was. I told I was sleepin and I guess he didn't get the ####ing memo. if he keeps harrassing me I am gonna file a complaint. Big crazy looking sob too, I think he's outside my window now. :msp_biggrin:



Rep sent !!!!


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## pdqdl (Jun 23, 2012)

Sometime you have to draw a line in the sand. Apparently, ole Jeff wrote his in at 6:30.

My wife works for the Federal Reserve Bank. System wide, they will warn you, then write you up if you don't make it in ON time. Late is...LATE. No other way around it.

Myself, I draw the line at 10 minutes late. Funny thing is, no matter where you draw the line, some folks are always ahead of it, and the worst employees are always pushing the limit. You get a higher class of employee by cutting off the riff-raff that can't come to work on time.


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## treemandan (Jun 23, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Sometime you have to draw a line in the sand. Apparently, ole Jeff wrote his in at 6:30.
> 
> My wife works for the Federal Reserve Bank. System wide, they will warn you, then write you up if you don't make it in ON time. Late is...LATE. No other way around it.
> 
> Myself, I draw the line at 10 minutes late. Funny thing is, no matter where you draw the line, some folks are always ahead of it, and the worst employees are always pushing the limit. You get a higher class of employee by cutting off the riff-raff that can't come to work on time.



You've seen Jeff. Would you want to see that at 6thirty am?:msp_scared:


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## treeman75 (Jun 23, 2012)

I have a funny one. I did a linden removal last week but didnt bring a big saw to flush cut the stump, it was about 3' high. I called in the locates and a few days later went to check them and flush cut the stump, I set the stump piece next to the stump to pick up with my mini after the stump was ground. I called my stump guy and told him I flush cut it and locates were good. So, later that day he calls and said he got it done but had a funny story. After he ground the stump he started to grind the piece I cut and about a quarter the way into it he noticed it was moving and realized that was the piece I cut! Me and my guys laughed the whole time cleaning it out. It was one of those moments when you just had to been there!


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 23, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Myself, I draw the line at 10 minutes late.



That's what I mean. If they are 11 minute's late they are only 1 minute late in their mind.
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 23, 2012)

We start work at 7:30, guys are there at 7:15 to fill their coolers, get ready, meeting at 7:30, early is on time, on time is late. Someone comes in late, we raz em, but we have a tight crew, no slackers.


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## limbwalker54 (Jun 23, 2012)

How about this? Guy shows up on time but isn't worth two hoots when you get to the job?!? Guy that shows up 15 minutes late everyday is a stellar performer and works his butt off and is attentive and excellent at what he does...... Solution: Everyone else's start time moves up 15 minutes but you don't give him the memo...wala....he's now on time!

hehehe


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## conlan (Jun 23, 2012)

*Brilliant comment limbwalker54*



limbwalker54 said:


> How about this? Guy shows up on time but isn't worth two hoots when you get to the job?!? Guy that shows up 15 minutes late everyday is a stellar performer and works his butt off and is attentive and excellent at what he does...... Solution: Everyone else's start time moves up 15 minutes but you don't give him the memo...wala....he's now on time!
> 
> hehehe



I read lots of posts and don't reply often, but your way of thinking is cleaver. It is a good example of looking at issues from a different point of view and comming up with a solution. Most people have their faults and it is a clever employer who can sometimes make small adjustments to get around people's flaws.


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## limbwalker54 (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks, conlan  I try to think outside the box


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 23, 2012)

conlan said:


> I read lots of posts and don't reply often, but your way of thinking is cleaver. It is a good example of looking at issues from a different point of view and comming up with a solution. Most people have their faults and it is a clever employer who can sometimes make small adjustments to get around people's flaws.



Yeah, what-ever, You ain't me! 
Jeff


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## superjunior (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yeah, what-ever, You ain't me!
> Jeff



there's only one You Jeff..


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## beastmaster (Jun 24, 2012)

My wife, who is perfect in every way(she might read this)gets to work at 1 minute to 9:00 every day. She can get up at 5 in the morning it don't matter. She's been writing up for being 1 min. late.  I don't understand it. I think its like a sickness with some people. She's no flake, me I am be a little flaky sometimes, but I'm never late.
I talked her into seeing a psych about it, didn't help. She complained to the psych about some of my "things", the psych told her she was to critical. :msp_smile:That alone was worth the 90 bucks


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## Gavman (Jun 24, 2012)

I had (had) a guy that worked for me for 8 years and every once in awhile he would be late on Mondays and if I didnt call him on it it would be every Monday, figured out the best way to deal with him was when he was late I would call him and give him Tuesday off too, so he would miss out on two days pay, it worked out very well ig getting him up on Mondays.


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## formationrx (Jun 24, 2012)

*some people are just ####### shot...*

...a company i used to work for hired this ####### named shiloh... he sold himself off as an experienced climber... he was a BSer on the job site and annoyed everyone who worked with him... i would come around the corner of a house and see him tied into the tree sleeping against the trunk... he would tie off in the middle of every tree and not move... hed just try to reach everything with a long ass pole saw... every time i would need help... he would be gone literally... and he did this with everyone repeatedly... they would get to top of the tree look down and he would be gone and no one could find him anywhere (i think he was hiding out smoking weed) ....he would come to work every day and take his morning #### and stink up the bathroom... everyone hated this ###### but the boss would not fire him... one day the idiot came into work after he dyed his hair purple and permed it into a big afro... he got fired on the spot.... later we found out he spent most of his time hanging out at the local comic book store picking on little kids... now i have worked with some real stupid lazy ####s in my life but this guy took the cake...


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 24, 2012)

Some of u may remember the hippie I hired. He claimed all the good stuff, told me he was the head climber for Davey and made another competitor rich, this guy walked on gold. I sent him to prune a big oak, had a big dead branch at the top......BIG DEAD BRANCH. I go back to check job, big branch is there, I call him up and light him up, he tells me that he pruned all the deadwood out, no way anything is left. I told him to drive buy, don't even go out back, just look above the house. I went back sent another climber up, he gets to the piece and starts laughing, sends it down. Guess the hippie was right, he did prune it, several smaller branches off the BIG DEAD BRANCH, perfect cuts and all. Guess that was his idea of pruning deadwood, he actually pruned the smaller dead ones off, leaving the 8" dia 15ft long dead and rotten stick still there.

Jeff is right, you tell a time, you should be 15 minutes early. When I want to go at 7, I leave at 7, not 7:23. However, since the boys are with me, it doesn't quite work that way. Waking up a 18 and 20 y/o old at 545-600 is like pealing a burnt pancake of a griddle. I get mad at them and tell them to go home, but then they keep showing up here wanting food and shelter? Then! they keep calling me names! like "dad" and "father"


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 24, 2012)

formationrx said:


> ...a company i used to work for hired this ####### named shiloh... he sold himself off as an experienced climber... he was a BSer on the job site and annoyed everyone who worked with him... i would come around the corner of a house and see him tied into the tree sleeping against the trunk... he would tie off in the middle of every tree and not move... hed just try to reach everything with a long ass pole saw... every time i would need help... he would be gone literally... and he did this with everyone repeatedly... they would get to top of the tree look down and he would be gone and no one could find him anywhere (i think he was hiding out smoking weed) ....he would come to work every day and take his morning #### and stink up the bathroom... everyone hated this ###### but the boss would not fire him... one day the idiot came into work after he dyed his hair purple and permed it into a big afro... he got fired on the spot.... later we found out he spent most of his time hanging out at the local comic book store picking on little kids... now i have worked with some real stupid lazy ####s in my life but this guy took the cake...



Sounds like James!


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 24, 2012)

I had a great climber called John, I had to call him in one day

"Look" I said "Your a great worker, you really know your stuff and do your job to perfection, but EVERY monday morning you call in sick for the day, what gives?"
"Its complicated" He said "You dont want to know"
"I gotta know, your my best guy, but this is getting on my nerves in a big way."
"Okay, see its like this. I have this sister who is in a tough relationship, her boyfriend gets on the drink on the weekends and is really threatening. Now me and her are really close so on monday morning when he leaves for work really early, she calls me and I go around to see how shes doing."
"Well thats understandable" I said
"Yeah, one thing leads to another and we end up doing it all day long, we shag each others brains out for hours and hours."
"Your kidding, with your sister??? Thats just the most depraved thing I have ever heard!"


"Yeah I know, I keep calling you to tell you Im sick!"










:msp_tongue:


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## superjunior (Jun 24, 2012)

one of my guys used to show up 10 min late every day, even tho he only lives about 4 minutes from here. Thats fine. When I got four other guys on the clock waiting for him, I started taking 40 min off his pay each day... he got the hint finally..


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## capetrees (Jun 24, 2012)

I have an extra that works Saturdays only and just started a full time job as a tow truck operator during the week. Told me he'd still be with me on weekends. The past three weekends he hasn't shown up due to "medical" reasons. Still able to do towing though. Come to find out, his boss goes commercial fishing for weeks at a time leaving this guy on call 24/7. He doesn't know that I know what's up. I asked the other day if he's coming in this weekend. Texted me back that he went to the doctor and he has two slipped disks and one ruptured disk in his back, pneumionia in one lung and liver failure but will definately be in next weekend. Of course, thats when the boss is back from his fishing trip but he doesn't know that I know that. 

Liver failure. :msp_rolleyes: Can't make this up.


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2012)

We hired this Mexican guy named Jorge about 12 years ago. I had suspicions he was stealing gas from a tank at the shop but had never actually caught him doing it until one day I forgot my phone and circled right back around to the shop to get it. There he was stealing gas. When he realized he was caught he start saying "No, you can't see me...I am invisible."


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## Sunrise Guy (Jun 24, 2012)

I have to admit, I'm not a stickler on arrival time. I only use ground support who have their own transportation. I get to a job at the time called for, climb what's needing to be climbed, and get the job done. If support never shows, I finish the job, solo, and cross the no-show(s) off my list. At almost sixty, I just don't need to get myself ragged, going off on lates and no-shows. There are always other guys and gals waiting to step up to the plate/tree. Yeah, on bigger gigs my philosophy doesn't always wash, but I mainly go after jobs that I can get done in six to eight hours, solo, three to four with one groundie. Life's too short to waste time feeling angry. In no way am I saying that my way works for production companies. I choose to not work for those companies, so I minimize my workday hassles. Life is good, in general, knock on oak!


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have to admit, I'm not a stickler on arrival time. I only use ground support who have their own transportation. I get to a job at the time called for, climb what's needing to be climbed, and get the job done. If support never shows, I finish the job, solo, and cross the no-show(s) off my list. At almost sixty, I just don't need to get myself ragged, going off on lates and no-shows. There are always other guys and gals waiting to step up to the plate/tree. Yeah, on bigger gigs my philosophy doesn't always wash, but I mainly go after jobs that I can get done in six to eight hours, solo, three to four with one groundie. Life's too short to waste time feeling angry. In no way am I saying that my way works for production companies. I choose to not work for those companies, so I minimize my workday hassles. Life is good, in general, knock on oak!



You are a freebird Sunrise. I answer to the owner. When my guy's want a pair of safety glasses, I ask them what happened to the pair I gave them. Show me, or did they lose them? Had a guy leave his chap's on a job and did not tell me for 2 week's. Had a guy back up a truck on his pole pruner, etc...
In short, I cannot afford to be casual about this stuff.
Jeff :smile2:


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are a freebird Sunrise. I answer to the owner. When my guy's want a pair of safety glasses, I ask them what happened to the pair I gave them. Show me, or did they lose them? Had a guy leave his chap's on a job and did not tell me for 2 week's. Had a guy back up a truck on his pole pruner, etc...
> In short, I cannot afford to be casual about this stuff.
> Jeff :smile2:



Actually Jeff theres a lot of things that you can work with a Guy but arriving early isnt one of them Its a mindset not a bad habit . I know a guy who starts MON/Tues at 6am and you can set your watch by him arriving at 615 am and then the remainder of the week he starts at 730am and shows up at 735/740am , I mean its just frustrates you I am sure but late guys never change .... But he is a real hard worker prolly makes that 15 minutes up before lunch so he gets a pass for the last 10 years


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 24, 2012)

I worked with a guy who habitually locked the keys in his truck , and I mean no spare nuffing and would realize it as he was shutting the door to the point where we would all remind him DAILY as he was gathering all his stuff to grab the keys


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> Actually Jeff theres a lot of things that you can work with a Guy but arriving early isnt one of them Its a mindset not a bad habit . I know a guy who starts MON/Tues at 6am and you can set your watch by him arriving at 615 am and then the remainder of the week he starts at 730am and shows up at 735/740am , I mean its just frustrates you I am sure but late guys never change .... But he is a real hard worker prolly makes that 15 minutes up before lunch so he gets a pass for the last 10 years



Oh yeah? Well, it sounds like he calls his own shots and I would be writing him up and if he did not change, gone.
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are a freebird Sunrise. I answer to the owner. When my guy's want a pair of safety glasses, I ask them what happened to the pair I gave them. Show me, or did they lose them? Had a guy leave his chap's on a job and did not tell me for 2 week's. Had a guy back up a truck on his pole pruner, etc...
> In short, I cannot afford to be casual about this stuff.
> Jeff :smile2:



I feel your pain. First hing Monday 2 guys are in for a surprise, one gets to go to Smithville to get the saw he left behind, the other gets to go get the shade tarp he left at a mulch delivery, in thei cars, on their time, I'm over it.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Oh yeah? Well, it sounds like he calls his own shots and I would be writing him up and if he did not change, gone.
> Jeff



Believe me I get it , its not like he gets paid to be late he just can't be on time ... I get where you are coming from believe me thats why I don't have a boss anymore ....


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I feel your pain. First hing Monday 2 guys are in for a surprise, one gets to go to Smithville to get the saw he left behind, the other gets to go get the shade tarp he left at a mulch delivery, in thei cars, on their time, I'm over it.



Yup, there is a line.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

"Jeff, I need a scoop shovel,"
"Why? Where is the one I gave you yesterday?"
"Went thru the chipper."
I wrote him up for it. 
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I feel your pain. First hing Monday 2 guys are in for a surprise, one gets to go to Smithville to get the saw he left behind, the other gets to go get the shade tarp he left at a mulch delivery, in thei cars, on their time, I'm over it.



T wrenches , if I had a quarter for every T wrench I had returned to me I would have a few extra bucks for sure ... I mean I buy them by the case but yet when I need one I can only find the most bent snapped off head worn out T wrench there is , I actually hide one for myself in the truck ...


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> "Jeff, I need a scoop shovel,"
> "Why? Where is the one I gave you yesterday?"
> "Went thru the chipper."
> I wrote him up for it.
> Jeff



In goes the ol' grass rake cause he was watching a girl on a bike ...LOL:msp_w00t:


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> "Jeff, I need a scoop shovel,"
> "Why? Where is the one I gave you yesterday?"
> "Went thru the chipper."
> I wrote him up for it.
> Jeff



Oh crap, that happened three weeks ago, I saw it, couldn't get there in time..... I mean it's a BC 1500, you have to be sooo dumb to let that get caught in the feed wheels. I'm the only guy of 10 who has any prior tree experience, it'svery lonely sometimes. I spend half my day running across the jobsite screaming NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!


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## tree MDS (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> "Jeff, I need a scoop shovel,"
> "Why? Where is the one I gave you yesterday?"
> "Went thru the chipper."
> I wrote him up for it.
> Jeff



Sounds like you have to do an awful lot of writing, Jeffers! 

That reminds me of the time my oldest brother put my cleanup shovel through the feed rollers. I was like "I've had that shovel since I started this business.. it was my first cleanup shovel that I got for doing my own work"! Lucky me, it just got dinged up a bit. That was probaby ten years ago. I still have, and use that shovel. It's getting kinda beat up now though. I put it into semi retirement!


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

"Jeff, I need a pin for my hitch on the chipper."
Why? Where is the one that was on there?"
"I don't know.
I wrote up the driver.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

I guess what it boils down to is that I am doing employee reviews and you know everyone will want a raise. I will pull out their file and remind them of all of this.
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## tree MDS (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> I guess what it boils down to is that I am doing employee reviews and you know everyone will want a raise. I will pull out their file and remind them of all of this.
> Jeff :msp_biggrin:



Well, you know what they say "the pen is mightier than the saw"!! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## beastmaster (Jun 24, 2012)

*!*

I was crew leader on a crew, with three inexperienced guys all about 24 years old. Everything they did pissed me off. After lunch I'ed say let get back to work. they'ed get up and all have to go to the bathroom to #### for 10 min. They wouldn't work together, each doing their own thing and make no headway. One time we had a brush pile to bring up a hill, the loader was coming the next day and they wanted to wait. I had caught them all sitting under a tree taking a smoke break, so I made them get the pile. I did it with them.
Next day the owner calls me in and says I'm working them to hard unnecessarily. They told on me! When the loader came that day, it couldn't be used down there anyway because of the damage it'ed do to the watershed. (I already know this) 
I didn't run to the boss with all the day in day out trails and tribulations. I let a lot of stuff ride, and it bite me in the arse. We didn't have write up's, but if we had it may of worked out better for everyone. I'm not saying you should be an a hole, but some times by not drawing that line you do an in justice to everyone.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I was crew leader on a crew, with three inexperienced guys all about 24 years old. Everything they did pissed me off. After lunch I'ed say let get back to work. they'ed get up and all have to go to the bathroom to #### for 10 min. They wouldn't work together, each doing their own thing and make no headway. One time we had a brush pile to bring up a hill, the loader was coming the next day and they wanted to wait. I had caught them all sitting under a tree taking a smoke break, so I made them get the pile. I did it with them.
> Next day the owner calls me in and says I'm working them to hard unnecessarily. They told on me! When the loader came that day, it couldn't be used down there anyway because of the damage it'ed do to the watershed. (I already know this)
> I didn't run to the boss with all the day in day out trails and tribulations. I let a lot of stuff ride, and it bite me in the arse. We didn't have write up's, but if we had it may of worked out better for everyone. I'm not saying you should be an a hole, but some times by not drawing that line you do an in justice to everyone.



You got it rough, Wade!
Stay sane, wish I could afford you!
Jeff


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## TreeAce (Jun 24, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> Actually Jeff theres a lot of things that you can work with a Guy but arriving early isnt one of them Its a mindset not a bad habit . I know a guy who starts MON/Tues at 6am and you can set your watch by him arriving at 615 am and then the remainder of the week he starts at 730am and shows up at 735/740am , I mean its just frustrates you I am sure but late guys never change .... But he is a real hard worker prolly makes that 15 minutes up before lunch so he gets a pass for the last 10 years



This guy you speak of reminds me....of me. Some years ago. Then I quit drinking and was on time/early ever since. Even started my own lil biz. My point is...late guys CAN change. Though it may be a little rare.


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## pdqdl (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Oh crap, that happened three weeks ago, I saw it, couldn't get there in time..... I mean it's a BC 1500, you have to be sooo dumb to let that get caught in the feed wheels. I'm the only guy of 10 who has any prior tree experience, it'svery lonely sometimes. I spend half my day running across the jobsite screaming NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!



I got a great laugh out of that. I hate to say it, but it's only funny 'cause it happens to me all the time, too.

I only let the tree crew have plastic scoop shovels. They work just a good as the aluminum ones, and they are a heck of a lot easier on the chipper knives when they go through the Bandit.




It's so embarrassing to keep running across the customers property yelling NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! _Bad for business._


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

I am at the point where I just have the guys drag bush. Most of what we're doing right now is dropping dead pines in the burn area, so I shoot the line, let them rig the pullies, drop it, clear the rope, and by the time they have the rope out and the pullies off, I have it bucked and limbed. It's just easier that way, and the saws sure stay sharp longer. I had a new guy complain that he'd been with us FOUR WHOLE DAYS, and hadn't touched a saw yet. I told him from what I'd seen, he hadn't mastered the fine art of brush dragging yet, and I didn't want to throw too much at him at once.


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## mattfr12 (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> You got it rough, Wade!
> Stay sane, wish I could afford you!
> Jeff



We don't really give out any warning, if someone is that dumb there Audi 5000. I've been with the same group of four guys now for almost 4 years. If I couldn't trust my life with them it would be a lot more difficult to accomplish anything. 


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ylcwqk


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> You got it rough, Wade!
> Stay sane, wish I could afford you!
> Jeff



that's right psycho, some people actually got something to gripe about. You with yer lost hitch pins and safety glasses are,well, yer nuckin futs dude, you got yerself a little head problem doncha? I can't believe what a see- you -n -t you are being. Let us know when something real happens, till then, eat my shorts, I feel like hoppin on a plane, coming out there and slappin the female outta you. need to retire yer old #####y ass you do. Wouldn't surprise me if the boys in corporate read yer reports and think the same thing but then again what do they know about anything besides pennies on the dollar anyway?


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## pdqdl (Jun 24, 2012)

Damn! Speaking of psycho...

It's called _Management_. He has to set up rules for folks to follow. The employees have to follow the rules. Failure to enforce the rules means that no one will follow the rules.

He could just fire their ass for some silly crap, but instead, he creates a written ##### list of what they have done wrong, and he slaps them around with that list when they ask him for something they want...like a raise in pay. If he didn't write it down, he might forget it when the conversation gets started.

Then he gets to remind them of what he wants...reliable employees that don't ignore stupid things, like the silly little pin that makes sure the chipper doesn't fall off the truck while they are going down the highway.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

treemandan said:


> that's right psycho, some people actually got something to gripe about. You with yer lost hitch pins and safety glasses are,well, yer nuckin futs dude, you got yerself a little head problem doncha? I can't believe what a see- you -n -t you are being. Let us know when something real happens, till then, eat my shorts, I feel like hoppin on a plane, coming out there and slappin the female outta you. need to retire yer old #####y ass you do. Wouldn't surprise me if the boys in corporate read yer reports and think the same thing but then again what do they know about anything besides pennies on the dollar anyway?



BS If you can't trust em on the small stuff, why trust em when it really matters? I took time on my Sunday to have a climbing/groundsman seminar today at my home. 3 guys said they'd be here, so I said OK. One showed up, 15 minutes early. The other two were no call no shows. Who do you think I will trust on the jobsite?


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> BS If you can't trust em on the small stuff, why trust em when it really matters? I took time on my Sunday to have a climbing/groundsman seminar today at my home. 3 guys said they'd be here, so I said OK. One showed up, 15 minutes early. The other two were no call no shows. Who do you think I will trust on the jobsite?



Oh, like you never lost a pair of 6 dollar sunglasses? Call me when you get back to reality.


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Damn! Speaking of psycho...
> 
> It's called _Management_. He has to set up rules for folks to follow. The employees have to follow the rules. Failure to enforce the rules means that no one will follow the rules.
> 
> ...



Well make sure you write yerself up for ALL the times you lost yer silly little pin. And PD, with yer track record I wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near you dude.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Oh, like you never lost a pair of 6 dollar sunglasses? Call me when you get back to reality.



Yes i have, and I took responsibility for it. I sign my gear out, I take responsibility for it. 2 weeks ago, a loop runner and a prusik loop were missing from my bag. I went on my own time, in my vehicle, and retraced our steps, searched every jobsite, no luck. So I manned up and replaced them at my expense. That is reality Dan, and it's called being a man.


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yes i have, and I took responsibility for it. I sign my gear out, I take responsibility for it. 2 weeks ago, a loop runner and a prusik loop were missing from my bag. I went on my own time, in my vehicle, and retraced our steps, searched every jobsite, no luck. So I manned up and replaced them at my expense. That is reality Dan, and it's called being a man.



good fer you, however, its no hitch pin.

I keep hitch pins and glasses on hand, that stuff gets lost by everybody all the time. Waste my time and hurt my ears crying about it?  Its called being a man.


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

And Jeff is on here flaming the guys in a public, I guess there is no respect there. No doubt he was drunk off his ass to start with this hitch pin, 1 minute late, lost sunglasses crap. Go soak yer nose and forget about it, you've bigger fish to fry you cantankerous old lady.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yes i have, and I took responsibility for it. I sign my gear out, I take responsibility for it. 2 weeks ago, a loop runner and a prusik loop were missing from my bag. I went on my own time, in my vehicle, and retraced our steps, searched every jobsite, no luck. So I manned up and replaced them at my expense. That is reality Dan, and it's called being a man.



Dan is not a man, he's a wannabe.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

I see FTA! WTF!
Jeff


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dan is not a man, he's a wannabe.
> Jeff



Right back at ya lady!:msp_sneaky:

dude, really, what gives? You have decent people working under you right? No need to break their balls on this penny anty stuff. Where do you come from, where do you get off?


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Right back at ya lady!:msp_sneaky:
> 
> dude, really, what gives? You have decent people working under you right? No need to break their balls on this penny anty stuff. Where do you come from, where do you get off?



Seriously Dan? Do you know what it adds up to and what abuse it leads to? 
Jeff


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## Pelorus (Jun 24, 2012)

Dismantled a big technical oak last week with limited visibility to ground due to other tree limbs. Noticed groundie wandering around - no hard hat on. Was super hot out & I was tired and fed up. I yelled at him that he needed to get a hardhat on NOW, dammit. He replied that he didn't wear one "cause anything that hits me is too big for the hat to do anything". That set me off, and I just lit into him. No customer home, thank God, but it made the next hour or so pretty gritty.

Man, was I pizzed off. Told him that the day is soon coming when he will be replaced, and his attitude is incompatible with my business model. I know that you are s'posed to praise in public, and criticize in private, but I think shaming him in front of others might be the only way to get this to sink in. Also mebbe good to have witnesses to the conversation in case things do go south.

He is too stupid and/or lazy to care about looking after his own safety and well-being, not to mention making me look unprofessional, and putting my business in jeopardy. This same guy has been on the local volunteer fire dept for about 4 years, and knows damn well that full PPE is required at practices and on calls.


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Seriously Dan? Do you know what it adds up to and what abuse it leads to?
> Jeff



You might have something with the guy always being 1 minute late but it just sounds to funny. Lost glasses and hitch pins? What? Do you think office workers get written up when they lose a pen? No, you are being to critical. Unprofessional even. Yer acting like a #####. You keep it up and the good guys you have will be against you. now shut up and go make sure every truck has a couple of hitch pins on it so the guys don't have to stop and be bothered when one gets lost. 

And how do we know your watch is even set right?


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

treemandan said:


> You might have something with the guy always being 1 minute late but it just sounds to funny. Lost glasses and hitch pins? What? Do you think office workers get written up when they lose a pen? No, you are being to critical. Unprofessional even. Yer acting like a #####. You keep it up and the good guys you have will be against you. now shut up and go make sure every truck has a couple of hitch pins on it so the guys don't have to stop and be bothered when one gets lost.
> 
> And how do we know your watch is even set right?



Whatever Dan, you don't get it.
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

"I thought I would start a thread that deal's with everyday stupidity and unusual event's that happen during the day that sometime's get over looked in the other thread. I will start. " Jeff

This is how this thread got started, and I thought it was actually really constructive, and then it got hijacked. I think the point jeff was making, and i agreed with, was that in this business there is no such thing as little ####. The details do matter. if you can't trust a guy to show up on time, or make sure the trailer is hooked up right, or that all the equipment made it back on the truck, do you really trust him on the other end of the rope?


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> "I thought I would start a thread that deal's with everyday stupidity and unusual event's that happen during the day that sometime's get over looked in the other thread. I will start. " Jeff
> 
> This is how this thread got started, and I thought it was actually really constructive, and then it got hijacked. I think the point jeff was making, and i agreed with, was that in this business there is no such thing as little ####. The details do matter. if you can't trust a guy to show up on time, or make sure the trailer is hooked up right, or that all the equipment made it back on the truck, do you really trust him on the other end of the rope?



Thank you,
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

BTW Jeff,you can be my wingman anytime


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## treebilly (Jun 24, 2012)

I can agree with the little things like hitch pins, light adapters, safety glasses, etc. That stuff adds up quick on a daily basis. The thing that really ####ed me off was having to check everything every morning on the truck I run everyday. I finnally started locking my boxes and just leave the ignition key in the truck. Boss was furious when he went to take something home but I told him it was that or I just stop and put any saw,blower,etc. on his account next time I don't have all the equipment I need On that truck. Since then he asks me to borrow something. The other two crews might still be having problems but not I.


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## MackenzieTree (Jun 24, 2012)

Thats a tough one, it does sound like there is a bit of micromanaging going on:help:, but at least once or twice a day i do have to crack the whip on the two groundies i got over stupid s##t to like looking at old bird nests instead of getting the portawrap ready to go or the bull line untied so we can finish up sometime soon and as far as ppe hardhat on when we get there and off when where leaving otherwise go home. its tough i kinda let my younger brother go who is a good groundy (19yrs old) but would just call out the night before for either poison ivy or sun burn just pissed me off. tried to teach him a lesson by letting him go saying if he doesnt show get another job. i dont know where the line is....


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## mattfr12 (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Thank you,
> Jeff



Get the hitch pins on a chain so they can't loose them. When I worked for the big B I'm not proud of it and it was over 8 years ago but I was late pretty regularly. No one ever said anything about it in three years. When you get it done a lot of times they let things slide. I also had a lot of responsibility and climbed daily so a lot of time I was beat. I went though a lot of climbing lines about every ten trees I'd trade it in and try something new. They where more than happy to do it. 


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?onre0v


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## MackenzieTree (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> "I thought I would start a thread that deal's with everyday stupidity and unusual event's that happen during the day that sometime's get over looked in the other thread. I will start. " Jeff
> 
> This is how this thread got started, and I thought it was actually really constructive, and then it got hijacked. I think the point jeff was making, and i agreed with, was that in this business there is no such thing as little ####. The details do matter. if you can't trust a guy to show up on time, or make sure the trailer is hooked up right, or that all the equipment made it back on the truck, do you really trust him on the other end of the rope?



Cant disagree


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Whatever Dan, you don't get it.
> Jeff



i think I get it now, I didn't realize you had the Goof Troop working there too. I had the impression that you had problems under wraps but it looks like you are still struggling and you probably always will be until you can afford guys like Beasty...:msp_tongue:


I will trust anybody on the other end of the rope. I will trust him to be human so I am prepared to be hit. 

You are just only giving less than half the story of why you wrote up Hitch Pin and Sunglasses along with Pole Pruner and the like. I am sure you don't know the whole stories behind this stuff yourself. Take it easy with that pen. I kinda always thought a tree crew needs to have guy who just stands around and watches out for everybody else.


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2012)

I never had a boss that looked like Jeff. He looks like a mean ass old crawfish ready to pinch your finger off. I think I would try to be on time.


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 25, 2012)

With Jeff on this, the devil is in the details, when ya let slacking go on, it grows and festers into a bigger problem. Aim small, miss small.

A crew here, not sure when this happened, last few years. They would get lazy on clean up and instead of putting all the gear in the appropriate places, they got in the habit of throwing stuff in the chipper chute and shutting the tray door. The owner didn't like it, but didn't really say anything. One day they show on a job, fire up the chipper and run some saws and saddles thru the Vermeer 1800. Crap like that starts with hitch pens and safety glasses. Gotta keep them tight.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 25, 2012)

If you need to treat your guys like children, dont expect them to act like anything but that.

I have worked for all sorts of people, and seldom saw micromanagers do anything but give themselves reason to increase there own workload while turning staff into order taking zombies.

I have a guy who gets to work sometimes 10 mins early, sometimes 15 minutes late. But he works his butt off, quotes, climbs, invoices, and puts in the kind of hours I do. Hes incredibly honest and puts his all into his work. Of the 99.5% of things he does well to I hold this above his head because traffic is unpredictable and he likes to drop his wife off at work? Heck no, if shes happy, hes happy.

If you pay your guys out for making small mistakes you will have them waste 45 minutes at the end of a job looking for a 6$ pair of sunglasses or eat up extra time being gentle with a half broken 4$ rake rather than admit they broke it because they are not being taught to be responsible for the work, they are being taught to be compliant to your management style.

My guys hate to get things wrong, not because I chew them up about it, but because they take pride in there work and they care about how I feel about them. My guys ROCK. They think for themselves, work incredibly hard and occationally screw up. So do I.

If you have been in this biz more than 5 years and dont have great staff, its not the staff thats the problem


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## Pelorus (Jun 25, 2012)

TimberMcPherson said:


> If you have been in this biz more than 5 years and dont have great staff, its not the staff thats the problem



I kinda like the rest of what you wrote, but have trouble digesting that last part. Although several have come close to greatness, they eventually move on to greener pastures and brighter lights. I'm sure Joe Wonderful is out there somewhere. Him and his cousins work for you?


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

Sorry Jeff, I was just dimayed with all yer years to see you griping about hitch pins. You got to have better stories than that.


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## pdqdl (Jun 25, 2012)

TimberMcPherson said:


> If you need to treat your guys like children, dont expect them to act like anything but that.
> 
> I have worked for all sorts of people, and seldom saw micromanagers do anything but give themselves reason to increase there own workload while turning staff into order taking zombies.
> ....
> ...




I think that is all pretty much true, particularly the last sentence. That said, not everyone is in your market, and some business models simply don't support having qualified, loyal staff. Sometimes the market simply does not pay enough to compete with better jobs, so the better employees flow towards the better jobs.

In my urban market, good employees with a good work ethic that are willing to sweat in the sun, get dirty, and finish profitably are hard to find. Once they get trained how to do the work, they buy a truck and compete with me. This creates a market where I and all my licensed, insured, "sign on the truck" competitors must bid against the better workers we trained to do the business. 

It's a dog-eat dog market in my area, and you must treat lower quality workers with quite a bit more supervision. Sometimes this means "micromanaging".


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I think that is all pretty much true, particularly the last sentence. That said, not everyone is in your market, and some business models simply don't support having qualified, loyal staff. Sometimes the market simply does not pay enough to compete with better jobs, so the better employees flow towards the better jobs.
> 
> In my urban market, good employees with a good work ethic that are willing to sweat in the sun, get dirty, and finish profitably are hard to find. Once they get trained how to do the work, they buy a truck and compete with me. This creates a market where I and all my licensed, insured, "sign on the truck" competitors must bid against the better workers we trained to do the business.
> 
> It's a dog-eat dog market in my area, and you must treat lower quality workers with quite a bit more supervision. Sometimes this means "micromanaging".



This is all true. When Jeff put up this thread I was expecting real horror stories. 

I would not have written the guy up for losing the hitch pin, I would have written him up for saying," I don't know." 
From what Jeff is saying there seems to be some passive agressive stuff going on.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 25, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> This guy you speak of reminds me....of me. Some years ago. Then I quit drinking and was on time/early ever since. Even started my own lil biz. My point is...late guys CAN change. Though it may be a little rare.


when I was younger I worked for a retired coast guard capt. Doing trees landscape and land clearing , he was a complete and total ####...... But he knew that having a younger group of guys working for hime I mean there were 60 some guys 30 of us were under 25 , we would go to the shore 3 nights a week and he allowed us to crash in the shop so when we wpuld come back at night around 3am we would go straight to work and sleep wherever you passed out , and if you could hang hungover he was fine with it but if you #####ed and moaned or drug ass he would be on ya like a real monster... There was no write ups there was just long hot days and a lot of neck breathing as a punishment and we loved it , it was a ssweet compromise ...


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## capetrees (Jun 25, 2012)

treemandan said:


> This is all true. When Jeff put up this thread I was expecting real horror stories.
> 
> I would not have written the guy up for losing the hitch pin, I would have written him up for saying," I don't know."
> From what Jeff is saying there seems to be some passive agressive stuff going on.



You see passive aggressive in Jeffs posts but not yours?

Really?


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## tree MDS (Jun 25, 2012)

treemandan said:


> This is all true. When Jeff put up this thread I was expecting real horror stories.
> 
> I would not have written the guy up for losing the hitch pin, I would have written him up for saying," I don't know."
> From what Jeff is saying there seems to be some passive agressive stuff going on.



I bet the hitch pin guy was baked when he lost that pin! Definitely sounds like there was some short term memory loss at play there. Maybe jeff should bust out the pee cup on him!! :msp_scared:


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

capetrees said:


> You see passive aggressive in Jeffs posts but not yours?
> 
> Really?



I meant with the guys he is writing up.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 25, 2012)

I think the moral of this thread is the day anyone goes in to ask for a raise don't forget the box of parts ya bought so when he pulls your file and starts rhyming off all the parts ya have lost or broke you can just dump the box of tailights, breakaway leashe,s hitchpins and torn out light plugs and say now whatja got for me LOL


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## tree MDS (Jun 25, 2012)

This thread reminds me of why I work for myself, more than anything. 

I keep an extra hitch pin stuck on the sun visor of the chip truck.. just in case I get baked and lose it! lol. (just kidding)


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

capetrees said:


> You see passive aggressive in Jeffs posts but not yours?
> 
> Really?



Nah, no passive aggressive on my part.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 25, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Sorry Jeff, I was just dimayed with all yer years to see you griping about hitch pins. You got to have better stories than that.



No biggie, not really griping as much as talking about the small stuff that we don't post much and also the dumb stuff some of today's youth do.
Jeff


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## formationrx (Jun 25, 2012)

*...*

u guys r a pisser...


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> No biggie, not really griping as much as talking about the small stuff that we don't post much and also the dumb stuff some of today's youth do.
> Jeff



Yeah well I guess at this point I'd rather hear the good stuff and getting tired of the stories of stupidity which I can't take anymore. I want you to go in tommorow and give everybody a hug and thank them just fer showing up, buy em some gatorade.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 25, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Yeah well I guess at this point I'd rather hear the good stuff.



Then start a thread, I did. Only mine ain't what you want it to be, oh well.
Jeff


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> This thread reminds me of why I work for myself, more than anything.
> 
> I keep an extra hitch pin stuck on the sun visor of the chip truck.. just in case I get baked and lose it! lol. (just kidding)



I know... and you know that the only one who has any stock in your business is you, everybody else is just and only there for the ####ing paycheck... ain't no 401 you offer. One sucker out of a thousand is gonna put up. Welcome to the world. 

A guy in Jeff's position should be kissing the feet of the guys that show up. HITCH PINS FER EVERYBODY, just don't die or kill anyone on the job and everything should work itself out just fine.

Why did the guy let your truck roll into the tree? Why did they run over the pole pruner? Be honest. 

How many guys believe there is actually something called a "climber/foreman? If you do, well, the jokes on you... rather the damage is. Any crew needs a specific supervisor to supervise. Ever watch a football game? Who is that guy on the sidelines calling plays and keeping a close eye on things? Oh, you say this ain't no football game? Yeah, I know, its worse.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 25, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I know... and you know that the only one who has any stock in your business is you, everybody else is just and only there for the ####ing paycheck... ain't no 401 you offer. One sucker out of a thousand is gonna put up. Welcome to the world.
> 
> A guy in Jeff's position should be kissing the feet of the guys that show up. HITCH PINS FER EVERYBODY, just don't die or kill anyone on the job and everything should work itself out just fine.
> 
> ...



Ah, I see you are where you are better now. 
We live in different world's, get over it.
Jeff


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## pdqdl (Jun 25, 2012)

treemandan said:


> ...
> 
> How many guys believe there is actually something called a "climber/foreman? ...



I do. When I go do a tree job, be it removal or trimming, I am the foreman.

I inspect the truck, I check the equipment, I tell everybody what they are expected to do. _That makes me a foreman._ When I climb the tree, everybody knows what they should be doing. If they don't, I take the time to explain it in language they can understand. Oh! Did I say I was climbing the tree? _I guess that makes me the climber too, doesn't it?_

You don't loose the ability to supervise just because you are hanging from a rope.
I haven't lost the ability to climb a tree, either, just because I am supervising 3-4 guys.

When I hire a climber/foreman, I only ask that he do the same things that I would do.


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I do. When I go do a tree job, be it removal or trimming, I am the foreman.
> 
> I inspect the truck, I check the equipment, I tell everybody what they are expected to do. _That makes me a foreman._ When I climb the tree, everybody knows what they should be doing. If they don't, I take the time to explain it in language they can understand. Oh! Did I say I was climbing the tree? _I guess that makes me the climber too, doesn't it?_
> 
> ...



Well, as history has proven: YER ASKING FOR TO MUCH


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Ah, I see you are where you are better now.
> We live in different world's, get over it.
> Jeff



Nah, same world, its just that the way you have chosen to put it so it suits you is different.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 25, 2012)

Danny Boy, do you really need the feeling of being the 'Heckler' in the crowd on every post? Or, more seriously, are you clinically depressed?
Jeff


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## treemandan (Jun 25, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Danny Boy, do you really need the feeling of being the 'Heckler' in the crowd on every post? Or, more seriously, are you clinically depressed?
> Jeff



Who knows but I thought we were having a conversation here.


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## pdqdl (Jun 26, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Well, as history has proven: YER ASKING FOR TO MUCH



Maybe. Asking too much of myself, or a foreman/climber? It's actually much easier than doing my job. I should go to work for someone else. I would make more money, have better hours, and probably have a better life.

I would ask you for a historical reference about that "proven" thing. Most tree services send out a climber/foreman to do jobs, at least around here. If they aren't, then it's just a solo outfit where the climber is the owner, not much different than myself.

I have met any number of field supervisors for asplundh, but they still have crew leaders, and when they are climbing trees, it's usually the crew leader. They have the better pay, the most training, and ...that's just how it works.


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 26, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> . Asking too much of myself, or a foreman/climber? It's actually much easier than doing my job. I should go to work for someone else. I would make more money, have better hours, and probably have a better life.



Word, so close I can smell the ocean, tic toc, tic toc


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## tree MDS (Jun 26, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Danny Boy, do you really need the feeling of being the 'Heckler' in the crowd on every post? Or, more seriously, are you clinically depressed?
> Jeff



The pipe, the pipe is calling..


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## tree MDS (Jun 26, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I know... and you know that the only one who has any stock in your business is you, everybody else is just and only there for the ####ing paycheck... ain't no 401 you offer. One sucker out of a thousand is gonna put up. Welcome to the world.
> 
> A guy in Jeff's position should be kissing the feet of the guys that show up. HITCH PINS FER EVERYBODY, just don't die or kill anyone on the job and everything should work itself out just fine.
> 
> ...



When I worked for this one fat pig, I was kinda like the "climber/forman". I didn't have the official title, but I was the one that heard all the #####ing. We had another climber (real good friend of mine, we still work together all the time), but I think the fat guy was intimidated by him (bad ass dude, martial arts, etc.), so I heard it all. 

I guess the stress just kinda trickled down, cuz man, I was a real #######!! lol. I've actually become quite a bit more relaxed in my older age. I sure was hell in my early 20's, though! 

We got a ton of work done though, that's for damn sure!! 

That was the last guy I worked for full time. I finally quit when the guys told me he was talking #### about my dead brother and family. Lot of thanks I got. He's one of my competitors now.

The best part was, after I lost my license, he was giving be a ride in one day, and says "well, you realize without your license I'm not gonna be able to pay you $12 an hour anymore". He was thinking more like $9. I said I would finish out the day, and that would be it. I ####ed those trees up so hard that day (had the hate bad), that I kept my $12 and never heard another thing about it.


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## treemandan (Jun 26, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Maybe. Asking too much of myself, or a foreman/climber? It's actually much easier than doing my job. I should go to work for someone else. I would make more money, have better hours, and probably have a better life.
> 
> I would ask you for a historical reference about that "proven" thing. Most tree services send out a climber/foreman to do jobs, at least around here. If they aren't, then it's just a solo outfit where the climber is the owner, not much different than myself.
> 
> I have met any number of field supervisors for asplundh, but they still have crew leaders, and when they are climbing trees, it's usually the crew leader. They have the better pay, the most training, and ...that's just how it works.



Historical reference? Ok. What happened to the last guy ( climber/foreman) you hired? And we are modeling after aspy now? I don't know if that is such a good idea.
You say "that is how it works"? Oh, well, umm, howzit workin fer ya? Let me answer: You do realize that what you just said above confirms my theories don't you? Ah well, I leave it up to you.


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## treemandan (Jun 26, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> When I worked for this one fat pig, I was kinda like the "climber/forman". I didn't have the official title, but I was the one that heard all the #####ing. We had another climber (real good friend of mine, we still work together all the time), but I think the fat guy was intimidated by him (bad ass dude, martial arts, etc.), so I heard it all.
> 
> I guess the stress just kinda trickled down, cuz man, I was a real #######!! lol. I've actually become quite a bit more relaxed in my older age. I sure was hell in my early 20's, though!
> 
> ...



I love it when they just go ahead and assume you the position without even telling you like it was written since the dawn of time. Oh, yeah, of course the climber is the foreman! ... but only when its conveinient for them.


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## tree MDS (Jun 26, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I love it when they just go ahead and assume you the position without even telling you like it was written since the dawn of time. Oh, yeah, of course the climber is the foreman! ... but only when its conveinient for them.



Yeah, I was just a climber... until something got broken, the job was taking too long, he wanted my opinion on how long a massive pruning job would take, etc.

He didn't have much of a clue about running a business though. He was just a private school richboy, who's parents bought him the company he worked for, when the owner retired. "Just put down the crack pipe, son, we'll do this for you"! 

Lol, just reminiscing a bit this am..


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 26, 2012)

I vote when things are broke or lost its the responsibilty of the entire crew I rarely see one guy hooking up a trailer or working on the ground or chipping , I mean I was treated that way when I worked for another guy and I thought it was fair , and honestly we always fixed our F ups as a crew ... I mean we maintained the truck, kept it clean and when something was worn or wiped out iit wasn't any surprise to anyone , I just think even if he makes more money one person cannot possibly work and watch all the other guys , it just doesn't doesn't work ...


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## pdqdl (Jun 26, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Historical reference? Ok. What happened to the last guy ( climber/foreman) you hired? And we are modeling after aspy now? I don't know if that is such a good idea.
> You say "that is how it works"? Oh, well, umm, howzit workin fer ya? Let me answer: You do realize that what you just said above confirms my theories don't you? Ah well, I leave it up to you.



The last climber I hired went to over-the-road truck driving. He still calls me all the time seeking advice on his various truck problems, and he calls me when he will be in town, occasionally seeking some work.

Regarding the last paragraph you posted; no I don't realize anything about your theories except that they seem to make no sense and you are not really posting anything but random thoughts. 

I'm not planning on hijacking this thread anymore...


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## Incomplete (Jun 26, 2012)

Gavman said:


> I had (had) a guy that worked for me for 8 years and every once in awhile he would be late on Mondays and if I didnt call him on it it would be every Monday, figured out the best way to deal with him was when he was late I would call him and give him Tuesday off too, so he would miss out on two days pay, it worked out very well ig getting him up on Mondays.



Now THAT is clever. To good to lose, smart enough to learn.


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## treemandan (Jun 26, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> The last climber I hired went to over-the-road truck driving. He still calls me all the time seeking advice on his various truck problems, and he calls me when he will be in town, occasionally seeking some work.
> 
> Regarding the last paragraph you posted; no I don't realize anything about your theories except that they seem to make no sense and you are not really posting anything but random thoughts.
> 
> I'm not planning on hijacking this thread anymore...



Well now, do you see my point then? 

My point: Yer last "climber/foreman" ain't climbering/foremaning anymore. Nope. Why do you think that is?:msp_rolleyes:


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## pdqdl (Jun 26, 2012)

By that reasoning, every time an employee quits a job, the position should be eliminated and two people should be hired.

Don't act stupid, I know you are not. Maybe you should abandon whatever habit is clouding your normally clear thinking.


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## since16 (Jun 26, 2012)

So this thread is about stupid things on job sites. So my part time ground guy has trouble keeping busy. So I take down a 40ft pine and tell him to cut it up and I'll haul brush to the chipper. All the brush is gone we load a couple logs and he says they are too big and waives his hands. I told him to cut them smaller he just walks off and starts raking. I was so pissed I just loaded them myself. He was actually surprised when I said that was our last job together because if I had to climb haul all the brush and logs I would just do it by myself and save money.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 26, 2012)

since16 said:


> So this thread is about stupid things on job sites. So my part time ground guy has trouble keeping busy. So I take down a 40ft pine and tell him to cut it up and I'll haul brush to the chipper. All the brush is gone we load a couple logs and he says they are too big and waives his hands. I told him to cut them smaller he just walks off and starts raking. I was so pissed I just loaded them myself. He was actually surprised when I said that was our last job together because if I had to climb haul all the brush and logs I would just do it by myself and save money.



Yes it is and you made a great start.

Jeff


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## mattfr12 (Jun 27, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yes it is and you made a great start.
> 
> Jeff



The people that are the highest paid with me have common sense. I would rather have a guy that could handle simple tasks all day without supervision than a highly skilled climber that didn't care about my equipment.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?vwus5l


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## Incomplete (Jun 27, 2012)

A lot of what I read is penny-ante stuff. But, as others have said, it all adds up. Couple things have stood out. Any time an employer listens to the underlings over the job boss, something is drastically wrong with the Boss/Forman relationship and people need to seriously examine their professional relationship. In my state, ANYONE left on a job in an oversite position is technically and legally "management"; disposition and pay should reflect this. 

A good worker who has punctuallity issues needs to be fired for it one time. See if that doesn't fix it (you can give him his job back if he begs for it; this will teach someone worthwhile a lesson they will never forget). A lot of times morning punctuality problems are silent rebellion, some aspect of their job/life that they are hating: challenge them. The biggest mistake a business owner can do is to lose a good employee: they are the most expensive tool in your inventory; but like all good tools, they must be taken care of. If an employee sees no possibility of becoming more in your company than he already is, then of course he's going to go into business for himself; you have to nurture the sapplings and prune the dead weight. (haha)

Hats, gloves, glasses, ear protection, in my line, those are hand tools and the responsibility of the employee. Oh, you came to work without your tools? Guess you're not working today. Parts missing from trucks and machinery? Tools damaged from carelessness? Those come out of pay checks. Good employees put it together real fast. Bad ones get gone. Either way, mission accomplished. I once had to buy an entire kitchen's worth of new cabinet doors: twelve years later I still remember that job like it was yesterday, and I haven't drilled a cabinet door wrong since.

You don't have to be a jerk or a tyrant about it, but, and especially, it's business, not personal. We/Our bosses are in business to make money, not losses from carelessness. And people who tolerate bad employees, for what ever reason and however they fit that definition, won't be in business long: the losses will soon outway the gains.

No Help Is Better Than Bad Help.

Funny story time: I once had a cub running a shopvac while the boss was running the Pardner demo saw with a water hose attached in the basement of a million dollar remodel; water was flowing every where and no matter how hard and fast the cub pumped that vacuum hose and wand, he couldn't get out in front of the flood of water flowing across this basement floor. So, the boss shut the saw down to see what was going on. The vacuum wasn't plugged in . To this day we still laugh about this when we see each other.


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## StihlKiwi (Jul 1, 2012)

Jeff,
Personally I think making sure employees respect equipment and realise it's not theirs to lose or break is pretty damn important, could probably make or break a business in some cases, you seem to be well aware of this.
I get the impression from reading this thread that the guys under you get written up a lot, for every little thing.
Do you take into account the fact that people are human and let the unintentional little things slide or does head office hear about them to?
And also, have you ever lost something accidentally, made a small mistake or been late by 1 minute? It happens to even the best of people once in a while you know

Thomas


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 1, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> And also, have you ever lost something accidentally, made a small mistake or been late by 1 minute? It happens to even the best of people once in a while you know
> 
> Thomas



My dad moved us to California when I was 14 from Florida. Station wagon, U-Haul, 5 kids and a cat. We took the 10 west. I rode in the back with the cat.We had the window in back that rolled all the way down. Anyway, every time the cat needed to poop, my dad had to pull over some place like rest area's or where-ever. On the third day, going thru west Texas, he said the next time the cat pooped, throw it out the window. So the cat pooped and I thru the cat out the window on I-10 in Texas. My mom freaked out! My dad thought I was an Idiot. He meant, throw the poop out the window. Yeah, I am human, but if you continually show up 1 minute late, you got a problem with me!
Jeff


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## pdqdl (Jul 1, 2012)

Tired of traveling with kitty, were we?


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## tree MDS (Jul 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> My dad moved us to California when I was 14 from Florida. Station wagon, U-Haul, 5 kids and a cat. We took the 10 west. I rode in the back with the cat.We had the window in back that rolled all the way down. Anyway, every time the cat needed to poop, my dad had to pull over some place like rest area's or where-ever. On the third day, going thru west Texas, he said the next time the cat pooped, throw it out the window. So the cat pooped and I thru the cat out the window on I-10 in Texas. My mom freaked out! My dad thought I was an Idiot. He meant, throw the poop out the window. Yeah, I am human, but if you continually show up 1 minute late, you got a problem with me!
> Jeff



Yeah, I guess it never hurts to ask for clarification.

Jesus..


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## Pelorus (Jul 1, 2012)

I'd like some clarification on whether the cat succumbed.
If anybody here has a problem with raccoons, try a mixture of flybait and regular Coke in a dish. I don't know if Pepsi is as good as Coke, but was told to use regular Coke; not the Diet stuff. Coon #2 literally dropped dead in it's tracks right at the dish. Coon #1 met his Maker at 3:00 am the other night after snacking on his last live duck, Poor duck woke me up, his assailant got a couple of .22 sleeping pills.


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## StihlKiwi (Jul 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> My dad moved us to California when I was 14 from Florida. Station wagon, U-Haul, 5 kids and a cat. We took the 10 west. I rode in the back with the cat.We had the window in back that rolled all the way down. Anyway, every time the cat needed to poop, my dad had to pull over some place like rest area's or where-ever. On the third day, going thru west Texas, he said the next time the cat pooped, throw it out the window. So the cat pooped and I thru the cat out the window on I-10 in Texas. My mom freaked out! My dad thought I was an Idiot. He meant, throw the poop out the window. Yeah, I am human, but if you continually show up 1 minute late, you got a problem with me!
> Jeff



S##t I bet the cat didn't see that coming!
And yea being continually late is no good. Make the guy set his clock 5 mins forward, after couple of weeks he'll forget about it and be 4 minutes early


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## StihlKiwi (Jul 1, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> I'd like some clarification on whether the cat succumbed.
> If anybody here has a problem with raccoons, try a mixture of flybait and regular Coke in a dish. I don't know if Pepsi is as good as Coke, but was told to use regular Coke; not the Diet stuff. Coon #2 literally dropped dead in it's tracks right at the dish. Coon #1 met his Maker at 3:00 am the other night after snacking on his last live duck, Poor duck woke me up, his assailant got a couple of .22 sleeping pills.



Antifreeze apparently has the same effect. The animals are attracted to it because of the sweet smell


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## treeclimber101 (Jul 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> My dad moved us to California when I was 14 from Florida. Station wagon, U-Haul, 5 kids and a cat. We took the 10 west. I rode in the back with the cat.We had the window in back that rolled all the way down. Anyway, every time the cat needed to poop, my dad had to pull over some place like rest area's or where-ever. On the third day, going thru west Texas, he said the next time the cat pooped, throw it out the window. So the cat pooped and I thru the cat out the window on I-10 in Texas. My mom freaked out! My dad thought I was an Idiot. He meant, throw the poop out the window. Yeah, I am human, but if you continually show up 1 minute late, you got a problem with me!
> Jeff


so just to clarify being a #### isn't a learned behavior its just something you are born with or without , makes sense though , would you be mad if one of your kids heaved one of your turtles out a window ???? That prolly get a rise outta ehhhh Jeffy???I bet you'd be pulling that #### over a beating someones ass.. #### cats though I had one that sprayed my furniture in my sons room when he was a newborn , then I found him in his crib , I tried to throw his ass out the window tossed him 3 times but the window was closed , God that cat and I straight up hated each other , I eventuallywon though he got old and I volunteered without discussion to be the one to drive him to get put down LOL ...I miss him from time to time I miss kicking a sleeping animal in the ass, and I would lock his ass outside in the winter at night and he would just be there in the morning all cold and pissed off ..


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> My dad moved us to California when I was 14 from Florida. Station wagon, U-Haul, 5 kids and a cat. We took the 10 west. I rode in the back with the cat.We had the window in back that rolled all the way down. Anyway, every time the cat needed to poop, my dad had to pull over some place like rest area's or where-ever. On the third day, going thru west Texas, he said the next time the cat pooped, throw it out the window. So the cat pooped and I thru the cat out the window on I-10 in Texas. My mom freaked out! My dad thought I was an Idiot. He meant, throw the poop out the window. Yeah, I am human, but if you continually show up 1 minute late, you got a problem with me!
> Jeff



I wondered who this hunter was, could it have been Jeff?

911 redneck hunter call - YouTube

Couldn't resist


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 1, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I wondered who this hunter was, could it have been Jeff?
> 
> 911 redneck hunter call - YouTube
> 
> Couldn't resist



LOL
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Jul 1, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Antifreeze apparently has the same effect. The animals are attracted to it because of the sweet smell



I heard they put stuff in it now, to make it taste Bitter.. 

They call it "Bitterens", or something. 

Glad someone's looking out!!


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 1, 2012)

Just don't be too hard on your groundie, Jeff, this is probably why he was late.

Failed 911 Call About Wife Being Attacked By Warthog - YouTube


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## Swamp Man (Jul 11, 2012)

personally i thin if someone tells you to be there at 6:30 dammit you need to be there at 6:20 or 6:25 at the latest if you dont care enough about tryin to keep your job you dont need to be in the tree business you need to work at the tag office


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 11, 2012)

Swamp Man said:


> personally i thin if someone tells you to be there at 6:30 dammit you need to be there at 6:20 or 6:25 at the latest if you dont care enough about tryin to keep your job you dont need to be in the tree business you need to work at the tag office



We are on the same page, Swampy, 
Head's up my new friend, use 'spell check', LOL!
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## treeman75 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hey Jeff, your guys been showing up on time lately?


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 30, 2012)

treeman75 said:


> Hey Jeff, your guys been showing up on time lately?



Ha ha! Good Sunday morning read.
I had to just read the whole thread before I posted.
Update,,, The guy that was late all the time is now a climber in training. He has been to work 15 minutes early every day and he has gotten a raise and is a great employee. 
I also remember why Dan is what he is,,?
BTW,, I always have hitch pin's, safety glasses,,etc,,,,because we and they are human.
It is a rare thing for me to write up a good employee,,but I will, and it work's.
Remember, this thread is for the stupid small stuff,Dan. 
Jeff


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## Mikecutstrees (Dec 30, 2012)

For me its not a pair of glasses, gloves etc. Its the pattern. When its glasses, gloves, etc etc every damn week I get really irritated. I find glasses on the ground in the leaves and it always the same employee. Some employees need there mommies to come behind them and pick up their toys and wipe their tooshies. I don't do that. I fire them. 

Mike


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## Vendetti (Dec 31, 2012)

I work at a large institution and I have my own small tree business. At the institution I've seen what micro managing does to the work force and I've seen what the entitlement culture of a union does to productivity. I have learned a lot about what not to do from the institution in running my business. About three years ago we had a dispute with ours management staff about some of the things you are discussing her. ( i.e. wage and means act. progressive dissaplin. Garnishing wages and so on.) We had one young man in our crew who was coming in late, screwing up at times and smelling of alcohol. I was the shop steward at the time and was asked by management to talk to him. After a big meeting about the crap that was going on at work I pulled him to the side too tell him he had to stop coming into work smelling like alcohol and that I did not want to see him get fired. He thanked me for caring and shock my hand. It was the last time I saw him. He finished his work assignment for the day went to a supply storage room and hung him self. That was the second suicide we had that year. It turned out it was more than work on his mind his divorce was finalized. I look back too this day and wish I cared enuf to ask him if he was alright. So again I use what I learned from the institution and apply it to my small business. If a grounds man dosen't have his PPE on you should tell them they must because you care. I'll give a man 10 minutes grace before I leave for the job site. If he calls to say he's running late I'll wait because I care. Caring should be part of the work culture hand and hand with the expectations and rules of the job. So work hard, work smart, be safe and care.


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## les-or-more (Dec 31, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Ha ha! Good Sunday morning read.
> I had to just read the whole thread before I posted.
> Update,,, The guy that was late all the time is now a climber in training. He has been to work 15 minutes early every day and he has gotten a raise and is a great employee.
> I also remember why Dan is what he is,,?
> ...


While I agree with ya in general Jeff, you need to write yourself up for not welding a piece of chain between the pin and the chipper.


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## stltreedr (Dec 31, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Damn! Speaking of psycho...
> 
> It's called _Management_. He has to set up rules for folks to follow. The employees have to follow the rules. Failure to enforce the rules means that no one will follow the rules.
> 
> ...



Management= Punishing your employees for being late

Leadership= making them to _want_ to be on time

If they don't respond to either- time to find someone else.
If the boss can't do both, he needs to learn or deal with the problems


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## straight6jeff (Jan 9, 2013)

*I was late once....here's my excuse......*

When I was building swimming pools in upstate, NY back in, I had a 50 mile commute down Rte 9W along the Hudson. One day I was about 20 minutes late, which the boss understandably was a bit miffed. This was the days before everyone had cellphones, so I could not call. 

When the boss asked why I was late, I asked him to take a step around to the bed of my truck and have a look......That morning I hit a Deer on Glasco turnpike in Woodstock; a turkey on Rte 28 in Hurley; a racoon on rte 209 in Kingston; and a crow on rte 9W in Rhinebeck. I had stopped and tossed all 4 carcasses in the bed of the truck. He promptly said "lets get these things gutted so we can have a bbq this weekend (not the crow)

I needed a new hood, grill and 1 headlight after that mornings commute......


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## Pelorus (Jan 9, 2013)

straight6jeff said:


> That morning I hit a Deer on Glasco turnpike in Woodstock; a turkey on Rte 28 in Hurley; a racoon on rte 209 in Kingston; and a crow on rte 9W in Rhinebeck. I had stopped and tossed all 4 carcasses in the bed of the truck. He promptly said "lets get these things gutted so we can have a bbq this weekend (not the crow)
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Youse ate the racoon?


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## straight6jeff (Jan 10, 2013)

We did not grill up the coon, but the pelt was tanned and used as a throw under a lamp. The crow was the only animal not used.


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 10, 2013)

straight6jeff said:


> We did not grill up the coon, but the pelt was tanned and used as a throw under a lamp. The crow was the only animal not used.



Right, no one likes to "eat crow":msp_tongue:

(insert pic of 80 ft "stub" I dumped in a road here). 

The late stories in the thread were entertaining (mostly). Had a part time guy work for me who was always pleading for more hrs, but often times I would have some jobs scheduled and he would say he already had his own work for those days! Never mind that maybe he could have scheduled around my dates, because I was carrying all the overhead, working legit, and he was just working out of his truck with no license and insurance? 

Oh, and he was usually late, and when I put him in charge of a small crew utterly ####ed the dog (American colloquialism for screwed the pooch):msp_tongue: Yea, mods will have fun with that.

Finally fired him, heard he works for another outfit at less than half what I was paying him. At least now he is being paid what he is worth.


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## jasper89 (Jan 10, 2013)

Jeff: I was wondering if you write guys up when you see them doing something good, or above and beyond what they are supposed to be doing?

One attaboy can go a long way in demonstrating what kind of attitude/behavior you expect. Just .02 worth.

No experience as a boss in the tree business but have been around some.

Frank


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 10, 2013)

jasper89 said:


> Jeff: I was wondering if you write guys up when you see them doing something good, or above and beyond what they are supposed to be doing?
> 
> One attaboy can go a long way in demonstrating what kind of attitude/behavior you expect. Just .02 worth.
> 
> ...



Yup, 
Jeff


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## jasper89 (Jan 11, 2013)

Sounds like a fair deal to me.

By the way V Strom rider?

Frank (DL 1000)


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