# Hard Leaner Near Power Lines, Advice?



## Artemis (Dec 23, 2015)

Some family of mine have a hard leaning birch just waiting to take out their power. They have just opened a business and don't have the funds to hire a fully ticketed pro with all the fancy equipment, so I agreed to the challenge. I will include some pictures. I have fallen trees that were in close proximity to power lines on all sides, but nothing this close. The pictures don't do it justice. They are about 6 to 8 feet from the lines, and the tree is leaning a lot harder than it looks in pics. 
First of all I don't have a lot of room to maneuver or fall the tree, so my only option is to fall it backwards by pulling it against its lean. I will anchor it back to something to keep it from taking out the lines once its free at the stump. Then with some helping hands, we will pull it backwards into the parking area. 
What do you think?


----------



## Artemis (Dec 23, 2015)

Here's the pics


----------



## Pelorus (Dec 23, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I will anchor it back to something to keep it from taking out the lines once its free at the stump. Then with some helping hands, we will pull it backwards into the parking area.
> What do you think?



I think I'm confused with the "free at the stump...." part of the plan.
Leaving enough hingewood to keep that tree attached to the stump untill it is pulled over might be less drama.
You could mebbe get a free hydro disconnect / reconnect. In Ontario that's the case, but they gouge us on our monthly bills, so it is the least they can do.


----------



## Del_ (Dec 23, 2015)

Has all the makings of the next YouTube 'Hold my Beer' video.

Be sure to record.


----------



## capetrees (Dec 23, 2015)

more pics


----------



## Pelorus (Dec 23, 2015)

What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## greengreer (Dec 23, 2015)

Well it's hard to tell just looking at pictures but...
Those look like service lines. Correct? 
The lack of a top is great for you but how dead is the tree. A healthy birch will hinge really well but they can quickly become brittle/doty. 
If the wood is solid and there is a way to safely set a line near the top of the tree, then you should be able to do it assuming you have some basic equiptment. A good bullrope, blocks, wedges, throwline, etc. 
Basically you need as much leverage as possible and a strong pull (4x4 fullsize truck with good traction or tractor, etc). Cut a very shallow open face notch, leave a ton of hinge and back everything up with wedges. Pull little by little and if you need to cut a little more out of your back cut, and keep pounding those wedges until you have it standing upright. 
No need to tie the butt unless there is something I am missing from those pics. 

Honestly I do not know your skill level or equipment. If you are lacking in any of these areas it's going to be alot cheaper to have someone come take care of this. I'll bet you would be surprised at what you would be quoted to get that sucker on the ground. I'd say you'd be falling into most companies minimum rate, which is usually reasonable considering the risk you could be taking...


----------



## Artemis (Dec 23, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> I think I'm confused with the "free at the stump...." part of the plan.
> Leaving enough hingewood to keep that tree attached to the stump untill it is pulled over might be less drama.
> You could mebbe get a free hydro disconnect / reconnect. In Ontario that's the case, but they gouge us on our monthly bills, so it is the least they can do.


I would cut it completely free so that there is no hinge, is what I mean. But i like your idea of leaving some hinge. I will do that.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 23, 2015)

greengreer said:


> Well it's hard to tell just looking at pictures but...
> Those look like service lines. Correct?
> The lack of a top is great for you but how dead is the tree. A healthy birch will hinge really well but they can quickly become brittle/doty.
> If the wood is solid and there is a way to safely set a line near the top of the tree, then you should be able to do it assuming you have some basic equiptment. A good bullrope, blocks, wedges, throwline, etc.
> ...


I am unsure as to how dead it is. And I will make sure to wedge the crap outta it. thanks you for the detailed walk thru, I really appreciate it!


----------



## Jed1124 (Dec 23, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I would cut it completely free so that there is no hinge, is what I mean. But i like your idea of leaving some hinge. I will do that.



uuuuh, no don't do that. But if that's your plan take Del's advice and please video............


----------



## greengreer (Dec 23, 2015)

No offense but I think you should pass this on to the pro's. 
If you're not sure how dead it is then there is way too much risk involved, as all of the variables cannot be accounted for. Also by saying that you were just going to cutt it off the stump makes me suspect that you haven't the experience to do this safely. You need lots of hinge to do pull a hard leaner backwards. This is not something someone on the internet can teach you. I hope that you call a few local tree services and have them give you a bid. If it's something you will be capable of doing it shouldn't be very expensive. If its very expensive, find out why, there's usually a reason...


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Dec 23, 2015)

Do you have a generator?


----------



## lone wolf (Dec 23, 2015)

Stay away from power lines it ain't worth killing yourself or someone else nuff said! I have seen it happen!


----------



## Hoowasat (Dec 23, 2015)




----------



## RajElectric (Dec 23, 2015)

Not a good job to tackle without experience.


----------



## capetrees (Dec 23, 2015)

From the pictures, I think I see, near the transformer, a LOT of insulators, telling me BIG power.

F that. Either call someone with a lift to top it below the lines and you do the rest or have someone with experience take it to the ground, you cleanup.

Live to see another day.


----------



## JeffGu (Dec 23, 2015)

Artemis said:


> What do you think?



I'm thinking along the same lines as some others... have somebody who is standing quite far away take video.
As a general rule, you don't flop entire trees in an urban environment, you dismantle them. In many municipalities, you are required by law to contact the appropriate utility companies before doing any tree work within ten feet of their lines. Even arborists are required to have special certification for line clearance work, in many cities. One thing we _don't_ do is flop the tree until it's been dismantled, and the spar blocked down to below the utility lines. You should seriously consider not only the risks to your life, but the liability consequences.


----------



## redfin (Dec 23, 2015)

All to the left of that pole is secondary. If it is as bad as you describe pony up for the service disconnect and drop the trees. 

My question, that pole and transformer looks like they are almost new, why werent the trees addressed prior to setting?


----------



## tylerbeach3 (Dec 23, 2015)

I'd say pull it down with your truck and a really long rope. Tie a running bowline with throw line tied to the back of your knot so you can get your rope/evidence out of the tree. Don't put any cuts in it and make it look like a natural fall. When the tree hits the lines and brings em to the ground cleanup and go away. Have the resident call (from their cell phone of course) the power company . Problem solved.


----------



## tylerbeach3 (Dec 23, 2015)

redfin said:


> All to the left of that pole is secondary. If it is as bad as you describe pony up for the service disconnect and drop the trees.
> 
> My question, that pole and transformer looks like they are almost new, why werent the trees addressed prior to setting?


Good question. Looks like that birch has been dead for a while.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Dec 23, 2015)

You mentioned cutting it free of the stump, then talked about using wedges. Seemed unsure of a hinge. Either you aren't really sure of what you're doing or you're having difficulty explaining your plan. Either way, you should consider giving this a pass. Your family doesn't have the funds to hire a pro, do they have the funds to fix their power lines?

The pics show (i think) that the fir(?) is between the birch and the lines. If that is the case, a pro would just climb the fir and rope down into the birch and block it down. He's safely tied in and the power stays on. No fancy equipment needed (unless you call a rope and harness fancy). Seems way easier to me that trying to set up pulling lines attached to vehicles.


----------



## Westboastfaller (Dec 23, 2015)

Well you started out good with frases like "close proximity to the line" " I've done all this before " I get the point about cutting the holding wood off a committed tree in close of closed canopies. (Pounding) I don't know what you are talking about in regards to the butt interfering with the line? It's a distribution line, its probably 12KV
(12000 V ) your conductor is the top only and below is your neutral. The bottom are tel and cable. That's not a personal drop to your house (200 amp service) as far as I can make out? why is it 'your' concern?
The Birch is fine anyways. Out of all the trees that would be the best I could think of. They stay solid at the butt and only decompose from the top 4'-5' at a time.
It's paper wood and often these pieces hold on forever and look so precarious but they don't separate for the longest time untill they only weigh a few pounds. at that point.

I don't think it's a private tap? Tell us more


----------



## gmissed (Dec 24, 2015)

Artemis said:


> Some family of mine have a hard leaning birch just waiting to take out their power. They have just opened a business and don't have the funds to hire a fully ticketed pro with all the fancy equipment, so I agreed to the challenge. I will include some pictures. I have fallen trees that were in close proximity to power lines on all sides, but nothing this close. The pictures don't do it justice. They are about 6 to 8 feet from the lines, and the tree is leaning a lot harder than it looks in pics.
> First of all I don't have a lot of room to maneuver or fall the tree, so my only option is to fall it backwards by pulling it against its lean. I will anchor it back to something to keep it from taking out the lines once its free at the stump. Then with some helping hands, we will pull it backwards into the parking area.
> What do you think?



Try calling your local Hydro utility. They may come and take it down for you if it threatens their hydro lines. That's what I would do.


----------



## treesmith (Dec 24, 2015)

You don't **** with HV


----------



## Hoowasat (Dec 24, 2015)

Artemis said:


> What do you think?


I think that if you have the slightest doubt you can pull this off safely, you ought to bring in professionals to reduce the job to a point where you can finish it. There's no shame in walking away from a job that's beyond your capability ... I've done it several times. Like Clint used to say, "A man needs to know his limitations."


----------



## KenJax Tree (Dec 24, 2015)

I agree with everyone else. That can get serious real quick. Not sure why i had to get certified (yes qualified too Jeff[emoji14]) for line clearance if all you gotta do is not leave a hinge[emoji1]


----------



## kam (Dec 24, 2015)

If you're in Ontario, Ontario Hydro will trim/cut down anything that threatens their lines.

Call them and have them give you a free evaluation.

They'll thank you for bringing it to their attention.


----------



## hanniedog (Dec 24, 2015)

Get the electric company to look at it. Let them deal with it.


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Dec 24, 2015)

Just let the thing fall over on its own. That way it's nature's fault vs possibly yours.


----------



## pro94lt (Dec 24, 2015)

Have they gotten any bids? If not how do they know they can't afford it? Looks to me like their trying to put you in a spot you have no business in. What will you do if something goes wrong?


----------



## ncpete (Dec 24, 2015)

Power company took down a dead standing fir tree in my yard over the summer. It was nice, I left for work in the morning, wife got a knock on the door at around 9:00 AM, and by mid day the the tree was gone. We had just received a notice from the insurance that they were declining our renewal because the tree 'posed a threat' so I had started looking for a service to take it down. Not going to mess with anything near the power, if I don't have to.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 26, 2015)

I think I might pass on this one. I hate to get talked out of a great opportunity to gain some good experience though... but you've convinced me. Thanks for the opinions


----------



## ncpete (Dec 26, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I think I might pass on this one. I hate to get talked out of a great opportunity to gain some good experience though... but you've convinced me. Thanks for the opinions


living is better than dead, so I have heard.


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Dec 26, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I think I might pass on this one. I hate to get talked out of a great opportunity to gain some good experience though... but you've convinced me. Thanks for the opinions



No, a similar tree in the middle of nowhere is a great opportunity to gain some good experience.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 26, 2015)

Call to power company, many will cut trees that will hit lines for free


----------



## treesmith (Dec 26, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I think I might pass on this one. I hate to get talked out of a great opportunity to gain some good experience though... but you've convinced me. Thanks for the opinions


Good call, learning from your mistakes is easier when you're not dead and on fire


----------



## buzz sawyer (Dec 26, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I think I might pass on this one. I hate to get talked out of a great opportunity to gain some good experience though... but you've convinced me. Thanks for the opinions


Sounds like you did indeed get some good experience. Glad you made the right choice and will still be with us. I recently hired a pro to trim some trees near my house and power feed to a neighbors house. What he did in a couple hours would have taken me all day and we're both safe.


----------



## RajElectric (Dec 27, 2015)

Where in Ontario is the OP?


----------



## Macman125 (Dec 27, 2015)

Artemis said:


> I think I might pass on this one. I hate to get talked out of a great opportunity to gain some good experience though... but you've convinced me. Thanks for the opinions



That is a good call. I used to work line clearance for a couple years. It is risky business. Unless it is service drops or secondaries, minimal line voltage is 7.2kv. Any little mistake could be the last. Besides in most instances, the electric provider is liable for tree damage if it is to occur.


----------



## Deererainman (Dec 27, 2015)

That looks like a single phase dead-end pole with #2 or 2/o service. Looks like a reasonably new installation. The primary voltage is most likely 7200v (phase to ground), enough to kill pretty quick. 

Most utilities have multiple Arborists on staff, that can come out and assess the situation. If they don't take the tree down entirely, they certainly can do a "make safe" cutting and let the property owner do the rest. That's common practice.

The utility will be far more forgiving if they are consulted on the front end of the impending job, rather than responding to a situation where the pole is broken, transformer damaged and primary conductor on the ground.


Get with the utility arborist and discuss it. Then decide on the best course of action.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 27, 2015)

Deererainman said:


> That looks like a single phase dead-end pole with #2 or 2/o service. Looks like a reasonably new installation. The primary voltage is most likely 7200v (phase to ground), enough to kill pretty quick.
> 
> Most utilities have multiple Arborists on staff, that can come out and assess the situation. If they don't take the tree down entirely, they certainly can do a "make safe" cutting and let the property owner do the rest. That's common practice.
> 
> ...


The dilemma is my folks said that BC Hydro -the electricity provider- has come out on 3 separate occasions to inspect the tree, and then did nothing about it. Not to mention it's been weeks since the last visit. It seems getting hydro to cut the tree down is becoming an unreliable and repetitive chore. 

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Dec 27, 2015)

Well, then go with their assessment. If they don't co nsider it a hazard, why should you?


----------



## Artemis (Dec 27, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Well, then go with their assessment. If they don't co nsider it a hazard, why should you?


I think they just forgot about it. And the top fell off this past summer and almost took the lines out already, not to mention the rest of the tree is hanging 8 feet away on a HARD lean, waiting for a nice wind to knock it over. 

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk


----------



## BC WetCoast (Dec 28, 2015)

That tree has virtually no area for wind to push against, will take a mighty wind to knock that one over. 

Get BC Hydro's Vegetation Manager's number for that area and talk to him directly. I've seen BC Hydro come out in 1 day's notice for a tree they thought was a hazard. If the Veg manager doesn't think it's a hazard, it's his ass on the line when it comes down and smacks the wires. Just get it writing.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 28, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> That tree has virtually no area for wind to push against, will take a mighty wind to knock that one over.
> 
> Get BC Hydro's Vegetation Manager's number for that area and talk to him directly. I've seen BC Hydro come out in 1 day's notice for a tree they thought was a hazard. If the Veg manager doesn't think it's a hazard, it's his ass on the line when it comes down and smacks the wires. Just get it writing.


Will do. Thanks


----------



## AT sawyer (Dec 28, 2015)

Artemis said:


> Then with some helping hands, we will pull it backwards into the parking area.



Lots of YT videos of this fail. Have you asked the power company if they will remove the leaner? You're paying for the service and it's their infrastructure at risk.


----------



## Deererainman (Dec 28, 2015)

Artemis said:


> The dilemma is my folks said that BC Hydro -the electricity provider- has come out on 3 separate occasions to inspect the tree, and then did nothing about it. Not to mention it's been weeks since the last visit. It seems getting hydro to cut the tree down is becoming an unreliable and repetitive chore.







If it wasn't obvious in my reply, I happen to work for an electric utility. I can assure you, that the sqeeky wheel , does get eventually greased. Keep at it. Be courteous, but persistent.


----------



## backhoelover (Dec 28, 2015)

that is a 7200 volt line


----------



## RajElectric (Jan 1, 2016)

In my area "waiting list" can be up to two years.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Jan 2, 2016)

It has to do with how hazardous the tree is. If failure is imminent, then it will tree dealt with much sooner.


----------



## RajElectric (Jan 3, 2016)

They leave leaning trees and limbs on primary lines. If it's on private property the owner is responsible for clearing, at least in Brant and Norfolk counties. Seems to have a 5 year inspection cycle and up to 2 year wait, if it even gets done.


----------



## ScottTree (Jan 4, 2016)

I see 2 birch. The back one looks shielded from the lines from the birch in front of it. Looks like you could fall it away from the lines with little difficulty if u have an opening back there that is. But the front one. Unless you can climb walk away. Looking at the angle. Good chance if you hit them it wouldnt bring them down. Just deflect. But you don't want to cross those lines with a tree stuck leaning against them. And if the word dead is involved in this conversation this should'nt even be a conversation. Dead is a huge No No for anyone without the experience working with dead wood. Let alone being around power lines. Of course it is almost impossible to assess something like this through photos.


----------



## ScottTree (Jan 4, 2016)

JeffGu said:


> I'm thinking along the same lines as some others... have somebody who is standing quite far away take video.
> As a general rule, you don't flop entire trees in an urban environment, you dismantle them. In many municipalities, you are required by law to contact the appropriate utility companies before doing any tree work within ten feet of their lines. Even arborists are required to have special certification for line clearance work, in many cities. One thing we _don't_ do is flop the tree until it's been dismantled, and the spar blocked down to below the utility lines. You should seriously consider not only the risks to your life, but the liability consequences.


Well said.


----------

