# Strongest wood for building???



## wdchuck (Feb 5, 2007)

Looking for info on what wood is strongest for beams, when coming across logs that I'll save for milling I'd like to know which is best for framing application, like barn beams/posts, size for given span. 

AN engineering table is pretty much greek to me, but something simplified would be helpful. Hardwoods only.


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## Sawyer Rob (Feb 5, 2007)

Most post and beam building have the strength designed into them, instead of useing a wood that's hard to work with. Also, usually they are built with green wood and then the beams dry in place... Many hardwoods split easier when dry, so you build with them green.

I like to build my buildings with the lumber right off the mill, nail it up and let it dry there...

Rob


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## wdchuck (Feb 5, 2007)

Commonly available wood for me is elm, silver maple, oak, ash.

So, if I want a pole building of any sort, these are my materials.

A 20' free/open span would be narrowest that would work, so given the above species, what size do I need to mill them too, what are each species strength charachteristics?


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## Railomatic (Feb 5, 2007)

*beams*

Oak would be my first choice, Elm is also good, when you size them use the 2 
to 1 rule, IE, if a beam is ten inches deep, make it 5 inches across and so on
because you get the best structural support this way.

If you have a log that will have any sapwood left after sizeing it, position that sapwwod, so that it sits at the botom of the beam, then you can cut this off with a axe/adze at an angle leaving virgin heatwood throughout.

You can use timbers like beach, poplar and larch, but these are best used for shorter spans below 20 feet, oak is the best for wider spans.


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## Railomatic (Feb 5, 2007)

*beams*

Oak would be my first choice, Elm is also good, when you size them use the 2 
to 1 rule, IE, if a beam is ten inches deep, make it 5 inches across and so on
because you get the best structural support this way.

If you have a log that will have any sapwood left after sizeing it, position that sapwwod, so that it sits at the botom of the beam, then you can cut this off with a axe/adze at an angle leaving virgin heatwood throughout.

You can use timbers like beach, poplar and larch, but these are best used for shorter spans below 20 feet, oak is the best for wider spans, mind you larch and pitch pine have been used on some very long spans, but made thicker to accomodate the strength factors.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Feb 5, 2007)

Live oak is one of the strongest domestic hardwoods and fairly rot resistent. It was a choice specie for ship building. It's hard, heavy and a bear to work with but lasts forever. You might have a problem finding 20' logs for beams though.


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## wdchuck (Feb 5, 2007)

I won't be buying anything, it will all have to come from trees that I can CSM.


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## dingo (Feb 5, 2007)

wdchuck said:


> I won't be buying anything, it will all have to come from trees that I can CSM.



I used white oak for trusses on a 30 foot building and put them up green. I also put my lumber up green and brace it into place. The trusses are heavy but in two years haven't moved.
For the inside of our house we used red oak, cedar, white oak and walnut cut 1/2" thick on the walls with 1/2" batten. Cutting !/2" with a bandsaw is time consuming; a CSM would really take a while. 
Most of the old farm houses are built out of what timber was available at the time. I know graders and code enforcers will tell not to build with lumber that hasn't been graded, but can they explain why the ungraded lumber has lasted for 100 years or more with wind, snow hitting them?
Most lumber will cure and hold well if it is kept dry, I have seen a house that is framed in walnut. That was the most abundant lumber at the time.


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## wdchuck (Feb 5, 2007)

I may even side it in 3/4" boards from logs, as long as the wood is kept dry, it should last for quite a number of years, even without a finish, although I'd probably put something on it for longevity. 

When I started milling the 24" silver maple it dawned on me to measure what could come out of each log, easily enough to vertically-side a 24'x24'x8' building from all the logs I have right now. The framing will be the tough part, accuracy is not my strong suit; square,plumb,level...but with patience and care it should all work out.


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## infomet (Feb 6, 2007)

You're asking for trouble here. 
Nothing will freespan 20', at least nothing you can handle.
Get a truss design program, or hire an engineer, and design trusses for the roof. With some extra wood, you can make what are called "storage trusses" that frame in an attic room down the center. Design for a reasonable load up there, so you don't get sag later. Remember the design load in the future, when you start filling the area with boards and old chainsaws!

Framing with oak will require drilling for nails, and maybe some bolts or treenails, pronounced "trunnels".

Most of the load in wood framing in not near the wood's strength, like studs, etc. Anything will do, so soft is good for nailing. Rafters and truss members, however, actually see reasonably heavy loads, thus the need for design. Ditto for floor and ceiling joists, although you can find these in span tables.

There are some truss programs on the web, but I don't know if they are adequate/reliable for you to depend upon.


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## Railomatic (Feb 7, 2007)

*beams*

If you want the best places to find out what sizes of beams you require, ask some of the timber framing guys, or have a look around some older buildings which already have them in situ.
As far as handling larger beams goes, you can do a hell of a lot with an A frame and a hand wynch, same again ask the timber framing guys, they are more than likely to be doing/using this equipment every day.

Hope this helps
Davy
Timber framer/Miller.


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## wdchuck (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanks for the information guys.

Some searching for Timber Builder sites/forums may be just the ticket.


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## urbanlumberinc (Feb 8, 2007)

You can frame with a mix mash of species if you use the appropriate woods in the appropriate places, for instance use the softer stuff for the posts and point loads, and the harder stuff like oak, locust, ash and suck for your span bearing elements.


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## BLACKeR (Feb 9, 2007)

little bit of a hijack here, but all this talk about building with hardwoods made me think of it. im a general contractor in western NY i work on a lot of houses that are mid 1800's we were doing a roof on an old house and when we tore off the cedar there were black walnut planks. some of the bigger ones were over 30in. beautiful long knot free black walnut boards. the majority the older houses here are all constructed of oak.


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## woodshop (Feb 9, 2007)

It's my understanding that back then, with some exceptions of course, they built houses out of whatever hardwood happened to be plentiful and close at the time. If they were clearing land and there were 4ft dia walnuts in the way, thats what they used for the roof under the cedar shakes.


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## BLACKeR (Feb 9, 2007)

i would assume back then, pine would be quite rare in that part of NY. i agree with what you said, I'm sure the trees used to build the house were just the trees they cut down clearing a field to plow or the land for the actual house. have the horse drag em to the saw mill and build your house. its just interesting to see, compared to the money wood like that would command today.


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## Addison (Feb 12, 2007)

*spruce*

i would uses spruce... for overall weight to strength its one of the better woods....its proved that pound to pound its stronger the steel


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## windthrown (Feb 12, 2007)

*Why limit it to hardwoods?*



wdchuck said:


> Looking for info on what wood is strongest for beams, when coming across logs that I'll save for milling I'd like to know which is best for framing application, like barn beams/posts, size for given span.
> 
> AN engineering table is pretty much greek to me, but something simplified would be helpful. Hardwoods only.



Around here in the land of Doug fir, we build with Doug fir (No. 1 grade Doug fir at that). It is not a hardwood, but it is very strong stuff. I have seen spans as long as 30' built with Doug fir here. Doug fir and Southern pine are the two most commonly used woods for beams and framing in construction in the US becasue they are the strongest, hardest and stiffest woods available that can be easilly milled and built with. They are alos a lot chaper than hardwoods. 

Though I suppose that you do not have any of these two growing back there in Michigan. Let me look in my wood materials book here... for beams and lumber they recommend red oak, white oak, beech, and tanoak for good planing and mortising characteristics. You get into issues with surface, warping, and shaping issues with many of the other hardwoods. For OK and better planing wood they list: ash, beech, black cherry, chestnut, hackberry, hickory, red and white oaks, and pecan. 

I do not have any dimention tables for hardwoods for beams and posts. Sorry. I have every dimention beam and load characteristic imaginable for Doug fir. I have several books on that stuff.


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## 046 (Feb 12, 2007)

Oak if you have a choice...

just drove HW412 through eastern Oklahoma into Arkansas. 
this is where recent ice storm tore through. 

massive damage everywhere! 

you could tell where the oaks grew. they come out either undamaged or in hardest hit areas, considerably less damage.


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## WadePatton (Feb 15, 2007)

*Wut about yellow poplar and sassafras?*

That's what I have the most of. BUT THEN I won't be framing with them. The main structure will be cob and stone, with wooden parts for roof support (tin) and upstairs flooring. Probably build some doors and window/doorframes with locally harvested wood too. 

I also have oak, cherry, walnut, and maple, but mostly poplar of decent size and smallish sassafras. 

How much drying time should I give the stuff for flooring? Build a kiln?

Had some bodock (osage orange) sawed out on a circular mill several years back. Still have it. Suppose I'll make use of it in this house. I think I have some 2"x10"x6' or better pieces of that. Hmmm.:jester:


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## 046 (Feb 15, 2007)

Osage orange is incredibly strong!


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