# What's going on when a maul "bounces" ?



## trailmaker (Apr 8, 2011)

Sometimes the maul/axe just bounces up leaving a dent. Sometimes the wood underneath the dent is splitting normally but the maul just doesn't break through the surface layer. The only thing I can think of is that the wood fibers right at the surface are folding over at impact so the axe edge is perpendicular to them. Any thoughts wood men?


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## bassflyrodder (Apr 8, 2011)

It just the wood's way of giving you the finger. Take it personal and swing harder.


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## flushcut (Apr 8, 2011)

bassflyrodder said:


> It just the wood's way of giving you the finger. Take it personal and swing harder.


 
Yep what they said.


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## Guido Salvage (Apr 8, 2011)

You did not specify what type of maul you are using and what type of wood you are striking. Personally, I use a Sotz Monster Maul and very little stops it.







With the triangular head you do not get deflection (or "bounce" as you term it) nor will it get stuck as do wedges or mauls like this.






The only time that I tend to have problems is when I have cut through a large knot or a crotch in the tree. In that case, I just flip it over and work on the other end.

The bounce is caused by not having enough energy to overcome the bonds of the wood fibers. Either go with a bigger (or better designed) maul or swing harder.


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## MNGuns (Apr 8, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> Personally, I use a Sotz Monster Maul and very little stops it.


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## wackydeejay (Apr 8, 2011)

Simply put, a maul bounces off a log when it's not hit with enough force to split the fibers of the wood. When a log splits, the energy is imparted into the log by the maul. When a log fails to split after a hit, the maul bounces because it takes a greater percentage of the recoiled energy that wasn't absorbed by what should have been a split. So, yeah the log is giving you the finger...and taunting you to hit it harder! LOL


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 8, 2011)

Being a good aim and reading the wood helps. Some mauls, like those made in China have too blunt of an edge. American and Canadian made mauls are the best. Also, swing so that the leading front edge of the head enters first when you swing.
John


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## wackydeejay (Apr 8, 2011)

Gypo Logger said:


> Being a good aim and reading the wood helps...


 
Good post, John. Many people strike a log with no plan. If there's a small knot toward the end of a log, it's best to strike it on the other end first, in my opinion. I usually also try not to hit dead center either. It's easier to get a break toward the outside a bit.


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 8, 2011)

wackydeejay said:


> Good post, John. Many people strike a log with no plan. If there's a small knot toward the end of a log, it's best to strike it on the other end first, in my opinion. I usually also try not to hit dead center either. It's easier to get a break toward the outside a bit.


 
Good point there. I also find it helps to slide forehand towards rearhand at the precise monent that the head is between 2 or 3 oclock, much like whipping a towel.
Best production can be obtained when all blocks are stood on end then bust them up. If one wont go, I just go on to the next one.
Real gooney, twisted, fibrous, knotty stuff is best smartened up with a chainsaw. It's alot faster and much less tiring.
I rarely if ever use a chopping block.
John


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## wackydeejay (Apr 8, 2011)

Gypo Logger said:


> Good point there. I also find it helps to slide forehand towards rearhand at the precise monent that the head is between 2 or 3 oclock, much like whipping a towel.
> Best production can be obtained when all blocks are stood on end then bust them up. If one wont go, I just go on to the next one.
> Real gooney, twisted, fibrous, knotty stuff is best smartened up with a chainsaw. It's alot faster and much less tiring.
> I rarely if ever use a chopping block.
> John


 
I liken it to hitting a baseball or softball. Good swing mechanics give the best results! But, yeah I think your towel whip imagery is right on!


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## fatjoe (Apr 8, 2011)

I can honestly say it`s been years since I`ve had a maul bounce off the wood.Splitting wood is an art that takes time to develop.Most rounds will have a crack that you need to follow.Even green rounds will have a little starter crack to follow.A sharp maul DOES help too.Hitting it hard doesn`t hurt either.:msp_rolleyes:


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## Gologit (Apr 8, 2011)

If the round is really knotted up try using splitting wedges. Saw a kerf in the top of the round deep enough to set the wedge. Two good splitting wedges will take care of just about anything.

Me, I bought a splitter.


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## Dale (Apr 8, 2011)

It means etither you're too weak, or the wood is too strong there fella. :msp_biggrin:

Times 2 on the splitter. Have done plenty of "maul work" over the years and don't miss it a bit. However, even splitters have drawbacks, as sometimes I kick my Beer over when sitting on a stool and vertical splitting. :msp_scared:


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## wackydeejay (Apr 8, 2011)

dale said:


> it means etither you're too weak, or the wood is too strong there fella. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Times 2 on the splitter. Have done plenty of "maul work" over the years and don't miss it a bit. However, even splitters have drawbacks, as sometimes i kick my beer over when sitting on a stool and vertical splitting. :msp_scared:


 
haha!


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## Gologit (Apr 8, 2011)

Dale said:


> ... even splitters have drawbacks, as sometimes I kick my Beer over when sitting on a stool and vertical splitting. :msp_scared:


 
Get the cup holder option...problem solved.

You're right about the splitter, though. My splitting maul is lost somewhere in the shop and my splitting wedges are rusty. And that's a good thing.


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## Dalmatian90 (Apr 8, 2011)

Is the energy being stored-and-released being stored in the log...or the handle?


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## beerman6 (Apr 8, 2011)

yes.


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## trailmaker (Apr 8, 2011)

bassflyrodder said:


> It just the wood's way of giving you the finger. Take it personal and swing harder.



LOL that works somtimes but I've had better luck changing the angle of entry or changing the impact point. I like a brute force pissing match with the wood occasionally but It will tire you out quickly.


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## trailmaker (Apr 8, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> You did not specify what type of maul you are using and what type of wood you are striking. Personally, I use a Sotz Monster Maul and very little stops it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I usually use a Fiskars SSA or a Gransfors heavy splitting axe. I'm mainly splitting Coast Live Oak and Shreve Oak (another type of live oak). 

I have a 12lb all steel maul very similar to the one in your picture but I find bounces more than my other splitters. I think this might be because the Live Oaks in this area don't have much if any straight sections therefore the the fibers of any given round almost never go straight up and down. Thats why I really like the short, light Fiskars because I can swing it so that it enters the round not just straight up and down but at a 5 or 10 degree angle parallel to the wood fibers. The 12 pounder can only be dropped straight down which may not be parallel to the grain.


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## NH Hunter (Apr 8, 2011)

I find that if I'm splitting oak by hand and it is extremely wet, i.e. recent rain is when I get the bounce. Just my experience.


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## PA. Woodsman (Apr 8, 2011)

Sometimes if you turn the round over and try the other side it sometimes is easier to split. Give it a try the next round that is fighting you....


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## Wood Doctor (Apr 8, 2011)

trailmaker said:


> Sometimes the maul/axe just bounces up leaving a dent. Sometimes the wood underneath the dent is splitting normally but the maul just doesn't break through the surface layer. The only thing I can think of is that the wood fibers right at the surface are folding over at impact so the axe edge is perpendicular to them. Any thoughts wood men?


You are probably trying to split green elm. Mauls will bounce right out of it.


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## Guido Salvage (Apr 8, 2011)

I would much rather have a maul bounce back than a wedge or two any day of the week.


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## TJ-Bill (Apr 8, 2011)

I thought it meant your swinging like a girl!?


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## trailmaker (Apr 8, 2011)

TJ-Bill said:


> I thought it meant your swinging like a girl!?



Ha! We send our little girls to NB Canada to learn to split on that sissy wood you have up there. Live Oak is for men.


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## Chopper G (Apr 8, 2011)

The only time I've had a maul bounce back off of the wood was when using a harbor freight maul (blunt convex edge profile) in the center (wrong!) of very big/old/hard/dry oak rounds. That type of maul splits wood by compressing the wood fibers until they buckle and expand creating a split. The maul head then travels through the wood continuing the splitting process. This is a very high-energy type of initial impact and can work fairly well on certain types of wood. On other types of wood, the wood fibers will compress to a point without buckling and then spring back - like striking hard rubber. 

Anyway, I'd 

1) Use a maul w/ a pointy concave or flat edge profile.
2) Take a file to your maul and make sure the edge is nice and sharp. 
3) I know people rave about the Fiskars and various "monster mauls", but they represent extremes to me and I much prefer my Iltis Oxhead maul and those similar to it. It just flat-out works, in all wood all the time and does not require gobs of effort to get off the ground and moving. 
4) Strike the rounds on their outer edge, not towards the center (of course).
5) Concentrate on accelerating the maul through the entire depth of the round - not just creating surface impact. In other words, imagine that you are not simply trying to split the round, but that you are also trying to split the stump beneath the round.


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## Gologit (Apr 9, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I would much rather have a maul bounce back than a wedge or two any day of the week.


 
Hit 'em square, Guido. Start them in a kerf or a crack, start them square and hit them dead flush. They shouldn't pop out that way.

But, then again, it's good to stand a little to one side...just in case.


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 9, 2011)

If the wood wont spit with a few swings use a saw, it's much faster.
Who wants goon trees anyway? Most wood, regardless of species will split quite readily, save piss elm and curly beech and the odd ash.
A good man on a maul can out spit any woodsplitter unless the woodsplitter has a four way wedge, auto cycle valve and coupled with a conveyor.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Apr 9, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> You did not specify what type of maul you are using and what type of wood you are striking. Personally, I use a Sotz Monster Maul and very little stops it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Guido, although the maul looks good itself, that meat hangin' out over the head would be a pita. I can see it hanging up on prospective blocks and a huge vibration up the handle in case of a miss. Ouch!
John


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## nandoz (Apr 9, 2011)

*hedge*

I hand split plenty of osage orange with a Collins 8lb maul, so did my kid when he was in trouble. I bounced the maul off the wood probably 3:1 splitting that stuff. Just keep beating it, and you will learn. Doing it wrong hurts after 2hrs, not that I would know.


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## Chopper G (Apr 9, 2011)

Get it. 
Love it. 
Live it.


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## turnkey4099 (Apr 9, 2011)

Green, dense Black Locust will bounce a maul and even reject a wedge. I usually start with wedge/sledge, tap, tap, tap, to set. swing and wedge bounces out. In that type stuff I cut a small kerf with the saw to start the wedge - no more bounce out.

Harrry K


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## Guido Salvage (Apr 9, 2011)

Gypo Logger said:


> Guido, although the maul looks good itself, that meat hangin' out over the head would be a pita. I can see it hanging up on prospective blocks and a huge vibration up the handle in case of a miss. Ouch! John



Gypo,

I have never used that maul, it was given to me by a neighbor when he moved several years ago. I agree on the excess handle, if I ever used it I would resolve the issue. I have split exclusively with the Sotz Monster Maul for going on 30 years and it works well. However, I did try to find a Fiskars this week but could not locate a X27 with the 36" handle.

Guido


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## Joe46 (Apr 9, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> Gypo,
> 
> I have never used that maul, it was given to me by a neighbor when he moved several years ago. I agree on the excess handle, if I ever used it I would resolve the issue. I have split exclusively with the Sotz Monster Maul for going on 30 years and it works well. However, I did try to find a Fiskars this week but could not locate a X27 with the 36" handle.
> 
> Guido


 
Amazon.com. Just got one from there.


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## TMFARM 2009 (Apr 9, 2011)

sorry but i married my splitter... i just cant seem to get her off the couch....:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Jungle Jim (Apr 9, 2011)

*Thoughts on Bouncing*

Several issues - 

1 - A solid, massive, heavy, stable chopping block will go a long way toward increasing the energy transfer from your maul to the wood. Essentially you want to trap the firewood between 'a rock & a hard place' which will greatly increase the efficiency of your swing and reduce the tendency for bounce. I like a knee high round of white oak about 24".

2 - The maul itself should be neither too blunt nor too sharp. Too blunt & it tends to bounce or not split / too sharp & it will tend to get stuck in the wood, often without splitting it depending .... The edge does not want to be heavily rounded nor does it want to be like a wood chisel. In between is good and it can be neglected until it rounds off excessively.

3 - Sometimes you've just got an ornery piece of wood or difficult species. Try turning it end for end. Try letting it dry. Try splitting it frozen.

4 - If the rounds have been seasoned first and are showing cracks it is usually most effective to whack it in the biggest cracks. Practice makes perfect!

5 - There's nothing wrong with the 'bigger hammer' approach but I've found 6 and 8 lb mauls to be very effective and much less tiring. Bottom line is splitting wood is more of an art, refined by much practice.

6 - When all else fails and you have a giant uncooperative chunk, just use a steel wedge or a sledge hammer on your maul to halve or quarter the round.

7 - If your maul gets stuck and the round is small enough to lift, try this maneuver: pick the wood up with the maul stuck in it, give it a good lift, invert in mid-air, add some muscle on the down stroke such that the _head of the maul_ impacts the chopping block first, with the embedded round of wood above. This adds the weight of the wood to your stroke & almost always works. Easier to do than describe. :msp_wink: Usually performed in one fluid motion once you get the hang of it.

It's guaranteed to draw a crowd at a public campground too!

8 - Fiberglass handles - some like 'em, I prefer wood (hickory or ash). FG tends to be bouncy and / or can sting your hands, etc. OTOH wood breaks, FG doesn't (not easily anyway). 

Happy splitting -Jim


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## stihl sawing (Apr 9, 2011)

When i was using the maul a lot, If it didn't crack in two or three licks i would put it aside then all the ones that wouldn't split they would get turned on the side and noodled.


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## aokpops (Apr 9, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> You did not specify what type of maul you are using and what type of wood you are striking. Personally, I use a Sotz Monster Maul and very little stops it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I got the same one . Beat the crap out of it . Will have to get some pics . How do you kept it so nice ? Your are right, the monster almost never bounces back


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## woodbooga (Apr 10, 2011)

trailmaker - 

You're on the west coast, so I assume you're into a lot of softwood. Having split a lot of knotty pine, spruce, hemlock, and the like I'd suggest you alter your bucking technique - what I call the whorlcut.

If the knots are part way through the buck, it males splitting tough. I'll buck at the knot and split from the opposite end of the log. (Try to split where the knots are and you get maulbounce.)

Pine is an easy read based on the whorled growth of the tree


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## indiansprings (Apr 10, 2011)

What it means that chit is going on the oscar meyer hotdog roast pile. At the end of the year we'll always wind up with a cord or two of chit wood. It works great for neighborhood get togethers, a gallon of diesel and a match and who cares if it split.


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## trailmaker (Apr 10, 2011)

I must not have been very clear in my initial post. I'm actually not having any trouble splitting wood, I'm just curious about what is happening with the wood fibers at the surface of a round during a "bounce". If you looked at the dent in a microscope would you see a tiny split that only goes a few millimeters deep or would you see a bunch of wood fibers all folded over and compressed down on themselves? I'm guessing you'd see the latter.


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## Gologit (Apr 10, 2011)

trailmaker said:


> I must not have been very clear in my initial post. I'm actually not having any trouble splitting wood, I'm just curious about what is happening with the wood fibers at the surface of a round during a "bounce". If you looked at the dent in a microscope would you see a tiny split that only goes a few millimeters deep or would you see a bunch of wood fibers all folded over and compressed down on themselves? I'm guessing you'd see the latter.


 
I don't think most people care but it might be interesting to find out. Go get yourself a gigantic magnifier of some kind, check it out, and report back.


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## Hillbilly3995 (Apr 10, 2011)

stihl sawing said:


> When i was using the maul a lot, If it didn't crack in two or three licks i would put it aside then all the ones that wouldn't split they would get turned on the side and noodled.


 
1st place award for most effeminate technique.

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## TMFARM 2009 (Apr 10, 2011)

well the way i see it, if the maul is bouncing its not splitting.. just a hint..:bang::bang::bang:


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## Pstone0013 (Apr 10, 2011)

*The bounce*

Sounds like you have a lot of sap in this wood, you might try to let it set for a couple of days, this seems to help, or hit it harder and it will split.


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## Sherwood stoker (Apr 11, 2011)

Pstone0013 said:


> Sounds like you have a lot of sap in this wood, you might try to let it set for a couple of days, this seems to help, or hit it harder and it will split.


 
Most wood over here splits easier green than seasoned.
That said a big round of really wet timber is sometimes hard to start a split running in.
The fibers just seem to bend out of the way & the "shattering" effect of the blow is lost.
On occasion the splitting axe just seems to be bounced back by this, usually when I've got too ambitious & gone straight for the centre.
Year Old silver birch can be a real pain when wet,then there's eucalyptus.....:msp_mad:
I agree with the post about bouncing wedges, my shins really don't like them!


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## thefeckerwest (Jan 23, 2012)

A tree that has not been surrounded by other trees while growing can have a lot of knots in it because of all the side branches. Along with that, if there is a lot of resin in the wood and it is "sticky", it can be almost impossible to split with a maul sometimes, regardless of technique or application. In that instance the only solution is a pair of wedges and the 14lb. sledgehammer. Even then, I have seen a sledgehammer bounce off a wedge a few times before the round finally surrenders.


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## Woodomaker (Jan 23, 2012)

trailmaker said:


> Sometimes the maul/axe just bounces up leaving a dent. Sometimes the wood underneath the dent is splitting normally but the maul just doesn't break through the surface layer. The only thing I can think of is that the wood fibers right at the surface are folding over at impact so the axe edge is perpendicular to them. Any thoughts wood men?



Fibers folded over from being recently cut into logs??


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## Woody912 (Sep 8, 2016)

trailmaker said:


> I must not have been very clear in my initial post. I'm actually not having any trouble splitting wood, I'm just curious about what is happening with the wood fibers at the surface of a round during a "bounce". If you looked at the dent in a microscope would you see a tiny split that only goes a few millimeters deep or would you see a bunch of wood fibers all folded over and compressed down on themselves? I'm guessing you'd see the latter.


squished fibers, just like you had it hit with a hammer, hit it with an axe and see cut fibers. Your initial penetration is not sufficient to get your 2 inclined planes to start working. Many pcs around here that I cannot start a wedge into unless I use the saw to put a seam in the top to grip the wedge and the really tough ones will still spit the wedge back at you


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## lknchoppers (Sep 9, 2016)

I HAVE A MONSTER MAUL TOO !!


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 9, 2016)

Woody912 said:


> squished fibers, just like you had it hit with a hammer, hit it with an axe and see cut fibers. Your initial penetration is not sufficient to get your 2 inclined planes to start working. Many pcs around here that I cannot start a wedge into unless I use the saw to put a seam in the top to grip the wedge and the really tough ones will still spit the wedge back at you



Black Locust is like that green. Often have to put in small kerf to start the wedge, rather odd that as Locust is a fairly easy splitting wood.


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## Full Chisel (Sep 9, 2016)

Black locust is one of my favorite wood to split with a maul, as long as it is straight grained. Almost as easy as red oak, IME.


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## Erik B (Sep 9, 2016)

Tried splitting a fresh cut box elder round and the splitting maul just bounced. It was so wet, it was like splitting a soaked sponge.


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## johnnyballs (Sep 10, 2016)

trailmaker said:


> Sometimes the maul/axe just bounces up leaving a dent. Sometimes the wood underneath the dent is splitting normally but the maul just doesn't break through the surface layer. The only thing I can think of is that the wood fibers right at the surface are folding over at impact so the axe edge is perpendicular to them. Any thoughts wood men?


i split with a maul only....just to sell "face cords" around here...i'm pretty selective about which rounds i buck up but every once in a while if i give one 6 good whacks and it don't cooperate...well, that one goes on the bonfire pile ..lol...or when i am bucking and i see a knot somewhere in a piece of wood i try to make sure the knot is going to be on the bottom of the round when i split it, it does help...cheers...


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 10, 2016)

wackydeejay said:


> haha!





johnnyballs said:


> i split with a maul only....just to sell "face cords" around here...i'm pretty selective about which rounds i buck up but every once in a while if i give one 6 good whacks and it don't cooperate...well, that one goes on the bonfire pile ..lol...or when i am bucking and i see a knot somewhere in a piece of wood i try to make sure the knot is going to be on the bottom of the round when i split it, it does help...cheers...



My rejects from manual splitting (I do about 90% of it manually) go to the 'splitter' pile. Rejects from there move to the 'to be noodled pile'. I don't waste knotty wood, it is usually the best, densest wood out of a log.


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## johnnyballs (Sep 10, 2016)

turnkey4099 said:


> My rejects from manual splitting (I do about 90% of it manually) go to the 'splitter' pile. Rejects from there move to the 'to be noodled pile'. I don't waste knotty wood, it is usually the best, densest wood out of a log.


no hydraulics here and i don't noodle..but you're correct about the density...but then again i don't burn wood for heat either,just split to sell.


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