# Got the 35HP Vanguard on the SC252



## stumper63

Finally got the 35 HP Vanguard on the '99 252 a couple weeks ago. I've put about 40 hours on it so far. Takes making a new mounting plate and a little welding, easy wiring, but boy is it worth it. The clutch and hydraulic pump mounts are exactly the same as the Kohlers, bolt right up. I did have a 1-1/2" jackshaft made, though you don't have too. 

I also put on the Multi-Tip wheel at the same time. Really smooth cutting action, can hardly tell when you engage the cutter wheel, it's that well-balanced.

Also put on a 3.5" hydraulic pump pulley and changed the drive motor sprocket from a 16 tooth to a 20 tooth. 

With all these mod's the little 252 is now a stump-cutting beast compared to its old self. Plyscamp and others have done this years ago and had nothing but success with the engine and no problems related to drive train or frame being too "light" to handle this size engine.

Anyway, if any of you have been trying to decide whether to make the conversion or not, just do it. Soooo much faster. And only a couple hundred more than the factory 27hp Kohler is going to cost you.

Stumper63


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## lxt

stumper63 said:


> Finally got the 35 HP Vanguard on the '99 252 a couple weeks ago. I've put about 40 hours on it so far. Takes making a new mounting plate and a little welding, easy wiring, but boy is it worth it. The clutch and hydraulic pump mounts are exactly the same as the Kohlers, bolt right up. I did have a 1-1/2" jackshaft made, though you don't have too.
> 
> I also put on the Multi-Tip wheel at the same time. Really smooth cutting action, can hardly tell when you engage the cutter wheel, it's that well-balanced.
> 
> Also put on a 3.5" hydraulic pump pulley and changed the drive motor sprocket from a 16 tooth to a 20 tooth.
> 
> With all these mod's the little 252 is now a stump-cutting beast compared to its old self. Plyscamp and others have done this years ago and had nothing but success with the engine and no problems related to drive train or frame being too "light" to handle this size engine.
> 
> Anyway, if any of you have been trying to decide whether to make the conversion or not, just do it. Soooo much faster. And only a couple hundred more than the factory 27hp Kohler is going to cost you.
> 
> Stumper63


 


Its a nice upgrade...............BUT, only if you never want to sell the machine or trade it in! thats the down side, no one wants to buy a modified, non-original stumper due to the unknown!!!


LXT...............


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## stumper63

Wow, that's a pretty broad statement LXT. I think it would be hard to know what thousands upon thousands of people in the tree industry would do. You must have asked them all.
Personally I would welcome a used machine with upgrades, would have loved to have bought one like I have without having to do the mod's myself.
As long as you know what the changes are and any different parts, what's the problem? Sure, if it's all hacked up and botched, but that's not my style.
If you don't want one with mod's, then don't buy it, buy a new one with a warranty that's a 1/3 slower and three times the cost.
I didn't buy a '99 stumper to be worried about resale, just gonna use it until it dies. 
I do still have my '03 with 4300 hours without modifications, original Kohler 25hp engine, still runs fine, perhaps you would like to buy it? Oh wait, I put a Sandvik wheel on it, guess you wouldn't be interested.

And why would you discourage the AS members from doing something that could potentially help their business with little investment? Guess all those guys that hop up their saws are seriously misled.

Guess I'm just saying I disagree with your generalization, gotta be careful with those.

Stumper63


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## lxt

its not really a broad statement! & No, I didnt ask any stumpers, cause frankly when someone mods something they think its better!!! personal preference!

however.........disagree as you might, take that B&S powerplant on yer 252 down to the vermeer dealer & try to trade it in, good luck! I know if Im buying something that has been bastardized & non conforming to factory specs............I plan on keepin it till death!! cause most dont want it!

i have a 252, the kohler is a dam good engine & worth way more than any B&S welded up, home made attachment, jack shaft.......garbage is!! you can have your machine how you want....but bottom line, its worth much less now!!! just ask the dealer!




LXT..............


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## lxt

stumper63 said:


> Personally I would welcome a used machine with upgrades, would have loved to have bought one like I have without having to do the mod's myself.
> As long as you know what the changes are and any different parts, what's the problem?
> If you don't want one with mod's, then don't buy it, buy a new one with a warranty that's a 1/3 slower and three times the cost.
> 
> I do still have my '03 with 4300 hours without modifications, original Kohler 25hp engine, still runs fine, perhaps you would like to buy it? Oh wait, I put a Sandvik wheel on it, guess you wouldn't be interested.
> 
> Stumper63


 

see here are the problems...........you did the Mods yourself??? Hmmm.....vermeer has a dept of engineers for just such a thing.....but you can do better? ya might wanna consider why they didnt do what you did in the first place.

I doubt you know from an engineering standpoint what changes to make & what parts to use?? saws are different, the engines are purposely restricted for EPA reasons & when hot rodded they wear much quicker!

My 252...........is far from slow, it more of a torque driven motor for the application while your might be faster in the speed dept. per say, mine will take a chunk outta a rhinos azz & keep diggin (while your b&s dies)

03 with 4300 hrs and a sandvik disk.............LOL, buy it?? nah.... I got 1- 252 the other stumper id get would be diesel & track driven like what I had a few years back!! modding will get ya so far..........just get one that doesnt need it, you got 2- 252`s...........????? man get the next size up or better!!




LXT......................


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## jhg

I would buy a modified 252 anyday. I know the machine very well and could easily determine if the mods made were done half assed or not. 

I plan on putting a 35hp on mine one day. I have already made all the other mods noted in this post. 

But to the point: I think if the only option that appeals to you when selling a machine is the security of trading at the dealers, or buying a machine that is stock, thats your power. But it is a stretch to say not do so is somehow costing us money. Not everyone likes to park between the stripes all the time. Live and let live.
Also, the 252 is a machine that has been modified and tested by more experienced stumpers than you lxt. Nothing personal. Plyscamp is pretty much the benchmark in the business. And Carlton puts the 35hp Briggs Vanguard on its similar machine. Are they idiots over there? To say that engine is junk is simply ignoring reality.

Thanks Stumper63 for the info and pictures.


Joshua


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## stumper63

You're welcome jhg. 

You're right, the 35hp Vanguard twin cylinder is used by Bandit, Rayco, Carlton. Last time I was at the Carlton factory the owner explained that they put the Vanguard and a 38hp Kohler on when testing engines for the 4012, they chose the Vanguard.
That said, obviously my experience with the 25hp Kohler was phenomenal, 4300 hours I personally all put on without any problems, so I agree that Kohler makes great engines. I just chose to side with the engineers from three stump cutter manufacturer's and a couple of other stumpers here on AS that had chosen the engine and had great results.
So I'll just use my 53 ft lbs of torque instead of the 39 I previously had and enjoy the increased productivity.
Like I said in the original post, if it was even read, who buys a '99 252 with the thought of trade-in value or resale? It's meant to be used until the bitter end.

If you're thinking about making the switch, don't wait three years like I did. Do it now and keep the original motor as a spare or just sell it and don't look back. With all the mods you've done as many others of us have, the little machine rocks.

Stumper63


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## wheelloader123

How much did the new engine cost you? I had a Carton 2500-4 that I had considered doing the same with, but in the end chose to buy a Vermeer 352 instead (I got an exceptional deal on it). What would you estimate your total cost for the conversion (engine, misc. parts, etc.)?


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## wheelloader123

How many total hours would you say you have performing the conversion?


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## lxt

jhg said:


> I would buy a modified 252 anyday. I know the machine very well and could easily determine if the mods made were done half assed or not.
> 
> I plan on putting a 35hp on mine one day. I have already made all the other mods noted in this post.
> 
> But to the point: I think if the only option that appeals to you when selling a machine is the security of trading at the dealers, or buying a machine that is stock, thats your power. But it is a stretch to say not do so is somehow costing us money. Not everyone likes to park between the stripes all the time. Live and let live.
> Also, the 252 is a machine that has been modified and tested by more experienced stumpers than you lxt. Nothing personal. Plyscamp is pretty much the benchmark in the business. And Carlton puts the 35hp Briggs Vanguard on its similar machine. Are they idiots over there? To say that engine is junk is simply ignoring reality.
> 
> Thanks Stumper63 for the info and pictures.
> 
> 
> Joshua


 
Im not saying not too do anything!! & understanding that his machine is a 99 makes a big difference..........dont think his intent is to trade in!!

if you look at bandit, carlton & others who use 35hp motors & compare the overall chassis, weldments, attachment points, etc....there is a big difference, nothing wrong with modding something..........but one should understand things are gonna wear out much quicker on a machine that wasnt meant to carry that hp to begin with.

so you have modded & experimented with the 252? yes there are many with much more experience than me.............but atleast I have some experience!! Im wondering about you? all im saying is most that see a machine with other than the original parts, engine, etc... may shy away!!

BTW............thats a nice machine there stumper!!!!




LXT..............


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## stumper63

Engine, muffler, with shipping was $2285 from Small Engine Warehouse. If you get one from them also order the oil drain valve at the same time, about $15, replaces one of the drain plugs. The drain hose from Vermeer that comes with the Kohler engine won't fit the Vanguard. 

Misc steel probably $30. Fasteners, paint - use Vermeer's rattle can, it's tough and matches really well, etc. another $40.
Probably close to $2400 all said and done. 

A new 27hp Kohler is about the same money as the Vanguard, at least was a couple months ago.

Didn't work on it straight through, probably took about three days, that's doing the steel fab the old-fashioned way, grinder, drill, and file.

Stumper63


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## cuttinscott

The Briggs Big Block is a AWESOME Choice......... There is only one spot for Kohler Commands thats down their Toilets!!!!

A Leaf Debris Vacumn Manufacture I Sell for tested the 38 kohler against the 35 Briggs BB and the BB walked all over the Kohler! That Briggs and Stratton Big Block is Actually Built By Daihatsu (Toyota) in Japan.


Scott


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## jhg

lxt said:


> so you have modded & experimented with the 252? yes there are many with much more experience than me.............but atleast I have some experience!! Im wondering about you? ...LXT..............




I'm not getting into a pissing match about experience with anyone lxt, including you. I have more than some and less than others.
Regarding the 252 and stump grinding in general, I have taken the knowlege of others like Plyscamp and Stumper63 etc and simply applied it to my own business and understanding of the machine . I was simply responding to some of your comments that struck me as particularly off base given what those with massive experience using this machine have proven.
We just disagree thats all. No problem.

Joshua


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## stumper63

Scott,

Before I purchased the Vanguard 35hp I read lots of reports on other forums and it seemed like the overall feeling was that the Vanguard Big Block has been a reliable power plant for several years now, not sure when they came out. It seemed like alot of turf equpment manufacturers go with the Vanguard.
I can't really comment on the Kohler big blocks, except what the president of Carlton told me when I visited the factory in July 2007. I know the Kohler small blocks can be very reliable, from my own experience noted above.

Do you see much turf equipment powered by the Kohler big blocks?

Anyway, it is what it is, and time will tell. So far, which isn't long, about 40 hours, the thing purrs like a kitten.

LXT, thanks for the picture kudos, that was the easy part. And as far as frame or drive issues, time will tell, I know Plyscamp has over 750 hours on his without a single issue. I actually had the mechanic at local Vermeer tell me he saw a 252 at the factory with a Vanguard 35hp on it awhile back, a prototype. My guess is that in the hands of inexperienced operators you may be able to overstress the machine, and alot of these 252's are sold to the rental market. But that's not me. Also, I would think they want to keep some distance between the 252 and the 352 with its 35hp gas engine option.

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

Glad to see you finally got er done stumper. Mine now has a little over 900 hours on it and no issues at this point. My old diesel unit with 4,400 hours on it (63 Foot Pounds of torque) is starting to use oil. Last time I checked Lombardini wanted over $300.00 for a set of rings. If thats any indication of pricing im afraid to ask about a set of pistons. May just pull it and put a Briggs big bore on it. Dont worry about the critics on here they just have more time to grind stumps than we do.
I would doubt that Vermeer will ever release the 252 with the 35 HP on it. It has the same swing arc as the 352, its much lighter than the 352, the big block has more torque than the 35 on the 352, easier to get in and out than the 352 and certainly would sell for less than the 352.
Again congradulations on the conversion, you now have a SC252B (Beast).


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## stumper63

Plyscamp, I'm liking the new model designation SC252B. It sure is alot less work now with this setup. Between the Vanguard and the Multi-Tip wheel I can grind so much longer before having to back off and rake chips. In fact, unless the stump is over about 3' or so I can make the two passes without having to back off. The grinder just keeps powering through and over the chip pile underneath. No wonder so many guys love their higher hp stump grinders.

I'm 100 hours behind your diesel unit, but I don't want to grind another 100 hours on the old 25hp machine. Any way I can tamper the hour meter and beat your 4400 hours? Got to be close to a record with these units. Anyone else put more hours on their 252?

Guess I should sell the old unit, still would be a reliable stumper for someone who perhaps isn't just grinding stumps all day like we do.

Stumper63


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## NCgrinder

Stumper63: Thats a great looking conversion...I have 2000 hrs on my 252,and the 25 Kohler just keeps on going, but I'm looking for any excuse to change to a 35 HP ... What is the Model number Briggs you used? Just want to be sure when I order ...
Did you use the stock Vermeer clutch or did you upgrade?

Also,anybody know of another source, besides Vermeer, to buy a new clutch and a new hydraulic pump??? When i do the engine conversion ,I'm going to change both.


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## stumper63

NCGrinder:
I know what you mean, my 25 Kohler still won't die, but now I wish I had done the conversion a few years ago.
Anyway, the Briggs model # is 613477-0130-E1. Here's the stat's from website psep.biz:

35 HP - Vanguard Series OHV V-twin, cast iron cylinder sleeves, multi-stage industrial air cleaner, 12 volt electric start, 20amp alternator, 1-7/16" x 4-1/2" Keyed crankshaft D/T 5/8-18, Manual throttle, push / pull choke, key switch, 5" round muffler (starter side outlet), has fuel pump, no tank,

I bought mine from Small Engine Warehouse, but it looks like they are out of stock of them. They do have a 613477-1118 that looks like it has the same spec's, but you better check.

I am using the stock 252 clutch.

Anyway, have fun!

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

NCGrinder

As far as I know the only source for the clutch is Vermeer and believe me I have gone as far as the factory Rep trying to find a source. The real key to clutch life is cooling. I modify my clutch covers to allow as much air flow as possible.

The Hydraulic Pump is a Danfoss part # 29YBADO12-2LB. The last one I purchased was in Dec. of 2004. Vermeer wanted $329.00 + Tax. I went to the Danfoss Dealer in town and paid $231.00 and that included the Tax and Air Frieght.


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## NCgrinder

Stumper63: That -1118 seems to come without a muffler
Did the - 0130 come complete w/muffler ?
Or what did you use?


Plyscamp: Thanks for the info . Finding out the pump# info is gold. Mine is already whining .. Now , I'll just have to bite the bullet on the clutch.

Thanks to both of you guys for the info
Stan


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## stumper63

No, you have to buy a muffler from them too. You want part # 841571, it's a factory Briggs muffler that the exhaust empties out on the starter side of th engine like the Kohler does. It was $110

While you're at it get the oil drain valve, #12774, it replaces the drain bolt. It's $17.65. Then you can just put a piece of hose to it every time you change oil and you don't have to drain it all over the frame. The factory Vermeer drain hose on your Kohler won't fit the Vanguard.

Stumper63


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## arbor pro

stumper, thanks for all the info. I'm talking with another guy (mechanic/body shop guy) who says he can put the new engine on for me if I get all the details so I am looking for a full list of everything I need to order just for the engine mod - not looking to increase drive speed with a new hyd pump at this time. Do I have a complete list...

*1) engine:* Briggs model # is 613477-0130-E1. 35 HP - Vanguard Series OHV V-twin, cast iron cylinder sleeves, multi-stage industrial air cleaner, 12 volt electric start, 20amp alternator, 
1-7/16" x 4-1/2" Keyed crankshaft D/T 5/8-18, Manual throttle, push / pull choke, key switch, 5" round muffler (starter side outlet), has fuel pump, no tank from Small Engine Warehouse, possibly use 613477-1118 if previous model is out of stock.

*2) Muffler* - part # 841571, factory Briggs muffler that the exhaust empties out on the starter side of the engine like the Kohler does. It was $110

*3) Oil drain valve*, #12774, it replaces the drain bolt. It's $17.65

*4) Jackshaft* - 1 1/2" - where can I buy/get this?

anything else just for the engine mod? did I understand correctly that the stock clutch is fine as are stock pulleys and belts if not changing out the hydraulic pump? (Speed of travel not a big deal to me). 

thanks. AP


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## stumper63

ArbroPro,

The jackshaft, if you want to upsize to the 1.5", will have to be made at a local machine shop. The stock sheaves, or pulleys on each end of the jackshaft are fine, you just need to get 1.5" i.d. bushings that fit into the stock pulleys. Here's the Motion Industries invoice #'s:

H 1-1/2 BUSHING, TL, QD. $9.37
SH 1-1/2 BUSHING, TL, QD $14.59
You will also need 1.5" bearings, just use the same ones as the cutter wheel shaft.
Then take your factory jackshaft, existing pulleys, and new bushings and bearings to the machine shop and ask them to copy the factory jackshaft, just upsize to 1.5". A machinist friend of mine did mine for me, charged me about $125. It's more than the factory Vermeer, but hopefully should never have to change it. Plyscamp used to use the factory shaft but broke one or two so did the upsize and hasn't had any trouble since. That's why I went ahead and did it.

You should do the hydraulic pump pulley mod. You are not replacing the pump or bushing, just the pulley, or sheave as it is called, to a 3.5" diameter. You will kick yourself if you don't do it, or at least you should. Best $25 you'll spend on the machine. And you won't have to pay Vermeer's prices on the belts anymore.
Also from Motion Industries:

New Pully: AK34-H $21.67
GATES TRUFLEX BELT 4L255 $3.44 EA.

The engine, muffler, and oil drain bolt were all from Small Engine Warehouse.

Hope this helps, now git'r done!

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

Kudos Stumper63

On a good write up on the conversion.


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## stumper63

Gordy, you're the one who got this all started, thanks!

Stumper63


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## tommyo

I have a Rayco 1625 with the Kohler ch730 engine,it's using about 1/2 qt.oil every 8 hours:msp_mad:Might be time for a Vanguard.Anybody done the swap on a Rayco 1625???Shur would like the 10HP upgrade.


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## Plyscamp

Should be very similar to the Vermeer. Same clutch, same bolt pattern on the engine. Could be minor differences but should be easy enough to work around.


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## TimberMcPherson

Those are some very cool modifications. 

Any gear made my big companies is made with compromise. Because there end user (namely us) buys with price as a big influence, they are made with a budget. So the engines are not always the best, the materials arent always the best, the development period isnt long enough to create the best design, shortcuts are made in manufacturing so there assembly isnt always the best.

Modification is good engineering evolution, I for one have no trouble buying modified gear, providing the mods make practical sence. Often otherwise sound gear needs modifications for local or operating conditions.


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## flushcut

opcorn:opcorn:


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## tommyo

*Rayco 1625B*

[]I finished the Vanguard transplant last week end!Pretty simple,just had to modify the motor mounting plate and Hyd.pump bracket.Thanks for the help!!:msp_smile:[View attachment 184213
View attachment 184214


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## fatkoala1

*252 hydraulic oil changes*

Hi guys finally came over to this site after a year or so at TW :blush:

Stumper68 ! 4000 hours on a air cooled Kohler that amazing the previous owner of my 252 got 1500 and he thought that was good.

My question is how often do you change hydraulic oil ?, and what type ?

Also engine oil 10-30w right? every 25 to 50 hours ?


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## stumper63

fatkoala1,

Used Vermeer's hydraulic oil every 1000 hours. 10W30 Chevron oil changed every 100 hours. Don't forget air and fuel filters are critical. Tap dirt off outer filter once a week or so, change inner filter when it starts to turn gray, probably only every 400 hours or so. Fuel every 300 hours or so.

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

Hey stumper63

Started on the new old SC252M. That's my old 1999 252 ( 4,550 hours ) with a 3 Cylinder 1835CC Lombardini diesel, with 38 HP and 84 Ft.Lbs of torque. Engine is now mounted end to end rather than sideways and is on rubber motor mounts to reduce vibration. Normal 252 hydraulics are being used for up, down, swing functions and drive. The clutch upper belts and gaurds have been removed, and replaced with a hydrostatic pump and hydraulic motor which will drive the jack shaft and cutting wheel. The cutting wheel will have variable speed with forward and reverse to clear any jams that may occur. OH YEAH the M stands for MONSTER.


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## stumper63

Hey Gordy,

Email some pic's, that's got to be one awesome looking 252 you've got going, itd will be an M for sure. Who would have thought of a hydrostatic motor to the wheel on a 252. You would!

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

I will shoot some pics over the weekend. Everything should be ready to go by Saturday except the cutting wheel hydraulics. Doug of Agura clutch rebuilding fame is bringing over a hydraulic engineer next week to spec out the pumps and motor for the cutting wheel drive. 6,000 Hours here we come. By the way how are you doing with yor new grinder pros and cons ?


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## stumper63

160 hours so far, mostly all pro's. Only thing to improve if possible would be the cutter wheel belt, using the factory still. Just seems like I may not be using the full engine potetntial yet, belt slips a little sometimes when cutting very aggressively. I could tighten a little more, just don't want to stress the bearings too much. I put on Timken bearings this time instead of the factory so kind of seeing how well they do. Did you virtually eliminate belt slippage when you went to the other belts system on your 252M? Was that three or four belts?
Nothing else to report other than production seems way up. I'm gonna run some numbers of gross income divided by the hour meter and see how it compares with the 25hp Kohler average. Will wait a couple more months to get a good average.

Looking forward to those pic's.

Thanks,

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

We dont see slipage on the stock belt if it is tight. If your getting slipage tighten it up until it just stops slipping. As long as you dont get carried away tightening it you will be ok. Also check the upper pulley, if it is worn enough the belt will make contact with the bottom of the groves and force silpage. I forwarded pictures today but it is the first time I have tried it with my dumb phone, most people have smart phones unfortunatly either me or my phone is not so smart.


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## stumper63

Don't worry, I've got a dumb phone still myself...anyway, the pic's came through fine, that will be one bad machine when you get her finished up, will be good to see the final product when you get the hydraulics figured out. How did that go yesterday?

I put all new pulleys on when I did the conversion this winter so I'll try tightening it up a bit more. I replaced that upper pulley a couple of times on the old 252.

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

Hello guys, 

I'm from the Netherlands where I operate a grinding business since a few years. I own a late 2008 sc252 with the electronic censored control handles, which I am considering to fit a Vanguard 35 hp on.

Very often the 27hp from the Kohler is not enough when grinding a stump out here in de heavy clay.

Now, my question is, if anybody knows if the 2008 model can be converted with the same Vanguard 35hp series as you guys used for the older sc252's? Is there any differences between earlier and later models sc252, other than electronic censored controls?


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## 2treeornot2tree

I was considering putting that 35 hp b & S motor on my Rayco 1625a sjr when my 25 kohlor dies. 

Has anyone done a engine mod on a 1625 rayco?


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## arbor pro

2treeornot2tree said:


> I was considering putting that 35 hp b & S motor on my Rayco 1625a sjr when my 25 kohlor dies.
> 
> Has anyone done a engine mod on a 1625 rayco?



No but I feel like I just 'stole' an rg1635 with the 35hp vanguaard and 116 origianal hours for $7k! Had to stick an additional $500 into it for repairs (apparently it was dumped on its side by previous owner and then just sat for 3 years so we had to replace carb and a few other parts). She runs like a charm now. I also put greenteeth on it and niow have upwards of $8k into a $16k machine. Has some really nice features that my sc252 didn't including 2-speed travel, variable swing speed and hydraulic steering. Very stoked to put it to work this spring!

What makes it even better is I sold my '04 sc252 with 500 hours for $7,000 so I only had to put up another $1k for the upgrade.

AP


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## Arboristo

Guys,

I am looking for this engine to buy in Europe as US suppliers don't ship to Europe. Pitty, cause this engine is about 850 dollars more expensive over here... :-(

Another issue is that I have no idea about the crankshaft measurements.

What is 1-7/16" x 4-1/2" Keyed crankshaft D/T 5/8-18 converted into millimeters? And what means D/T ?


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## stumper63

1-7/16 = crankshaft diameter
4-1/2 = length of crankshaft past engine case
d/t = drilled/tapped
5/8-18 = bolt diameter and threads per inch for end of crankshaft

Hope that helps

Stumper63


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## VA-Sawyer

In mm it would be ABOUT 36mm in diameter and 113mm long

The threaded hole in the end of the crank is ABOUT 15mm diameter

We have a lot of metric sized things here in the US even though it isn't our standard. I can get metric sized
parts like pulleys, shafting, bolts, nuts, and other hardware fairly easy. I lived in Germany during the mid 70's and it was almost impossible to locally get inch sized items like hardware when I was there. You may be better off in the long run getting a metric sized engine, even at the higher initial cost.
Rick


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## Arboristo

Thanks guys!

Another question:

I think the kohler is charging the battery in the original configuration, correct? Where you guys able to connect the same setup with the Vanguard?

Secondly, I have to fit the solenoid against the flywheel somehow, otherwise the operator controls won't work. Does anybody have experience with this?


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## Arboristo

Guys, I need some help.. I started the conversion this morning but found out that late 2008 sc252 has a Kohler with 1-1/8 crankshaft. :-( 

I never measured my crankshaft before I ordered the new Engine, since I read on this forum I had to get the 1-7/16 version..
Ok, bit too late...can't swap the engine for 1-1/8, so I guess another clutch is my only option.

Can one of you guys with the older sc252 please check which type clutch is on yours?


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## CalTreeEquip

stumper63, here's an idea. How about writing the whole conversion procedure out along with a few pics. Convert it to pdf, title it "Vermeer sc252 engine conversion to Vanguard 35 hp" and post it here. That way the whole world will have access to your genus and will be a better place for it. One can't ask for much more than that.


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## Arboristo

That's not a bad idea CalTreeEquip. However for the old makes sc252's the information here is quite easy to get and clear. The only thing that misses and where it went wrong for me is that there were no serial nrs / manufacturing dates given along with the technical data.

My 2008 sc252 is very different from the earlier models and maybe different from current makes.


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## CalTreeEquip

When switching engines always check your shaft diameter and length as well as the mounting bolt patterns.
That's basic, serial numbers would not have done you much good.
Besides he has only done this once and we know it wasn't on a 2008.
You'll probably need to get a new clutch, that should be a problem.
I would think a heavier duty clutch would be in order anyway.
Good luck with yours.


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## Arboristo

I'm about to go to Vermeer in an hour to get a new clutch. Finally they are open again after a two full weeks close for x-mass holidays! Can't understand that policy and leaving customers waiting for so long. Yesterday they couldn't give answers answers on supplies as they were so busy bc work had piled up so high.

Anyway, there seems to be a clutch in stock now that i'm going to get. That one has 38mm. I shall update my findings lateron on the conversion.


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## stumper63

Don't worry about the clutch, it can handle it. Got over 1200 hours with the Vanguard, clutch has zero issues so far. 

If I had some time it would be nice to put a "book" together, but don't have it now. Besides, Plyscamp is the first one I know of to do this and so gets the credit. I met him down in SanDiego and he showed me his machine and it inspired me to do it. Been smiling ever since.

Stumper63


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## CalTreeEquip

Well when you have the time it will be great to have that info out there. The two of you can work on it together, 1/2 the work.


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## Arboristo

For anyone interested, here's two movies where you can see my upgraded sc252 at work. Mind that teeth were almost worn, but still cutting at least 4 times faster than the original config.

www.boomstronkverwijderen.nl

Uitfrezen boomstronk / stobbe met Vermeer SC252 stobbenfrees - YouTube


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## Arboristo

Hi guys,

I have been doing just 100 hours since my 35HP engine upgrade and guess what...my new clutch is already gone! I don't understand it as I did do the burnishing thing over 50 times before I started using it. The clutch is designed for upto 35HP. Anyone else with upgrade experienced this problem?


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## CalTreeEquip

Maybe you over did it with the burnishing?
I would think a upgrade in clutch size maybe in order.


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## Arboristo

CalTreeEquip, you may be right a bigger clutch is better. 

However analyzing the failure and reading on this website about ogura clutches, I feel this is what happened: I was grinding close to a wall and because of this I wanted to be very carefull, therefor I had my engine running half gas. Suddenly a big piece of root got stuck between the cutterweel and instantly blocked it while the engine nearly bogged but kept running for nearly 3 or 4 seconds before I noticed what was going on. I think these 4 seconds was enough to burn the surface of the clutchplates.
Likely the root wouldn't have gotten stuck if I had been running full throttle bc of the mass of the wheel. Expensive lesson..


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## Arboristo

Yesterday, I went to the workshop of my mechanic. In his sparetime he eventually managed to open clutch with his press. He told me after opening he could see the plate of clutch was broken in two, and that had been the cause. Looks like I was just unlucky, after only 100 hours.


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## Arboristo

moderator please delete this entry


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## Hoosier

Has anyone done these mods to the Rayco Super Jr. 1625? Mine is in good shape, but if that motor ever pops I am not going to bother with a 25hp motor.

Also, the OP mentioned the gear change on the axle, I would love to make this machine travel across a yard a bit faster, does anyone know if there is a bolt on sprocket for my Rayco?


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## FanOFatherNash

lxt said:


> Its a nice upgrade...............BUT, only if you never want to sell the machine or trade it in! thats the down side, no one wants to buy a modified, non-original stumper due to the unknown!!!
> 
> 
> LXT...............



I would buy a moded machine also


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## Arboristo

.


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## 250R

I bought a used 222 back in 94 and never looked back. I eventually installed a Command 25. Over the years Ive replaced the pillow block bearings, clutch and both V and Cog belts. Just recently rebuilt the carb and replaced the fuel pump. Plenty of low end grunt. Still runs like a brand new machine and makes me money!


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## 250R

Also , I updated the cutter wheel belt from "V" to cog style. Made a noticable difference. My 222 is a small light machine. Much smaller than the 252. Even better for getting into narrow places. I'm glad it didnt sell it!!


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## pro94lt

So how are the vanguards doing? as soon as I find the time I'm bolting one on. What welding is needed? Can you not just take the Plate off the 25hp and drill the holes out to fit?


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## Stumpinator

NCgrinder said:


> Stumper63: That -1118 seems to come without a muffler
> Did the - 0130 come complete w/muffler ?
> Or what did you use?
> 
> 
> Plyscamp: Thanks for the info . Finding out the pump# info is gold. Mine is already whining .. Now , I'll just have to bite the bullet on the clutch.
> 
> Thanks to both of you guys for the info
> Stan


Are you still active? I am doing this mod to my Sc252 and would like to ask you a few questions, thanks!


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## Stumpinator

Plyscamp said:


> NCGrinder
> 
> As far as I know the only source for the clutch is Vermeer and believe me I have gone as far as the factory Rep trying to find a source. The real key to clutch life is cooling. I modify my clutch covers to allow as much air flow as possible.
> 
> The Hydraulic Pump is a Danfoss part # 29YBADO12-2LB. The last one I purchased was in Dec. of 2004. Vermeer wanted $329.00 + Tax. I went to the Danfoss Dealer in town and paid $231.00 and that included the Tax and Air Frieght.


I am doing this mod now on my Sc252, can I ask you some questions? Thanks!


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## Stumpinator

stumper63 said:


> NCGrinder:
> I know what you mean, my 25 Kohler still won't die, but now I wish I had done the conversion a few years ago.
> Anyway, the Briggs model # is 613477-0130-E1. Here's the stat's from website psep.biz:
> 
> 35 HP - Vanguard Series OHV V-twin, cast iron cylinder sleeves, multi-stage industrial air cleaner, 12 volt electric start, 20amp alternator, 1-7/16" x 4-1/2" Keyed crankshaft D/T 5/8-18, Manual throttle, push / pull choke, key switch, 5" round muffler (starter side outlet), has fuel pump, no tank,
> 
> I bought mine from Small Engine Warehouse, but it looks like they are out of stock of them. They do have a 613477-1118 that looks like it has the same spec's, but you better check.
> 
> I am using the stock 252 clutch.
> 
> Anyway, have fun!
> 
> Stumper63


Doing this Mod on my sc252, can I ask you a few Questions? Thanks!


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