# Internet advertisers stealing from tree service owners



## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 12, 2018)

As a tree service owner operator, I am appalled at how places such as Home Advisor, 1-800 contractor, Prch.com, and other internet companies are taking jobs from potential customers then selling them back to the tree service owner...Home Advisor has gained a monopoly on the tree service market ...then there's places like Monster Tree that is seeking franchises to people who have more money than they know what to do with...
Tree work is a occupation that is slowly learned and when operating a tree service, you should earn your wah into the field...it is life threatening work and these newbies that are cutting throats on estimates will get theirs...keep on using dull saws, cause you can't sharpen one, keep on hiring just anyone, and watch what happens to your company..readon I say this is because I'm witnessing it..


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## blades (Jan 12, 2018)

About the same in the snowplowing business.


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 12, 2018)

I understand that theses job lead generation companies are hitting the entire realm of the small business world with their clout..its something that needs to be addressed. 
It opens doors for unscrupulous people to come in and rape the market..people like Monster Tree service


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## blades (Jan 12, 2018)

I shut down the plowing business this season- just not worth fighting this type of stuff anymore. It was bad enough with tom ,****,or harry, low balling for beer money( or whatever) and running without insurance. A few years back I signed on to one these just to see what could be possible- mostly the ones I was sent were nightmare accounts - super intense service , poor to no pay types, and equipment that would need to be parked at location where it may or may not still be there 24 hours later, when checked, didn't need that kind of business either.


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 12, 2018)

blades said:


> I shut down the plowing business this season- just not worth fighting this type of stuff anymore. It was bad enough with tom ,****,or harry, low balling for beer money( or whatever) and running without insurance. A few years back I signed on to one these just to see what could be possible- mostly the ones I was sent were nightmare accounts - super intense service , poor to no pay types, and equipment that would need to be parked at location where it may or may not still be there 24 hours later, when checked, didn't need that kind of business either.


It's a total lack of disrespect and greed on their behalf. This world is going south quick, and the internet is paving the way for most of it to happen...theres good and bad in every equation though, and the good here is knowing that God is going to surely destroy the image of the beast once it gets to that certain point where He says, I'VE HAD ENOUGH!


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 12, 2018)

cuttinupferalivin said:


> It's a total lack of disrespect and greed on their behalf. This world is going south quick, and the internet is paving the way for most of it to happen...theres good and bad in every equation though, and the good here is knowing that God is going to surely destroy the image of the beast once it gets to that certain point where He says, I'VE HAD ENOUGH!


I'm sorry to hear that you decided to shut it down..i feel that way sometimes, but I have to work somewhere..one of the reasons I'm commenting here...thinking of running a saw shop for the local tree cutters so I can somehow at least stay semibusy


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## blades (Jan 13, 2018)

saw shop- actually full machine shop that I have here. Most of what I do is regrinding carbide saws, saw chains, chipper blades and the list goes on. Plus machining, machine repair, welding and such. Its been lean that last 8 years -things have picked up dramatically in last 9 months. The internet has had a decided affect on certain portions of the business like the plowing. I am not a cnc shop- all old school.


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 13, 2018)

blades said:


> saw shop- actually full machine shop that I have here. Most of what I do is regrinding carbide saws, saw chains, chipper blades and the list goes on. Plus machining, machine repair, welding and such. Its been lean that last 8 years -things have picked up dramatically in last 9 months. The internet has had a decided affect on certain portions of the business like the plowing. I am not a cnc shop- all old school.


Well ,I have some carbide stump grinder teeth, some chipper knives, and a rack of chains that I can send you if you should slow down..can you mill c yl. bases


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## blades (Jan 13, 2018)

you have a conversation.


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## Croweoutonalimb (Feb 4, 2018)

I get calls from these companies all the time extremely pushy and have real trouble taking no for an answer. Used one of these companies a while back and after I quit using the service if you looked my company up they would redirect customers using my company name to my competition. After that I have avoided them like the plague.


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## 250R (Mar 31, 2018)

I receive calls from these companies Yelp, Home Advisor, and others I never heard of. I don't need any more business I tell them my reputation speaks for it self. They are very persistent calling me and just a PITA. One of the things that's funny about Homeadvisor is they claims to do a back ground check on their contractors. Well, I know of a so called tree service (gypsy) here who is a Homeadvisor contractor. I know for a fact the owner has had multiple arrests for heroin possesion. It appears Homeadvisor is very desperate for contractors and being involved in the heroin business is just fine with them. HOW NICE. SO IF YOUR A DOPER, HOME ADVISOR WANTS YOU!!!!!!!!!!! There are now web sites that offer public information back ground checks and general information on individuals from court convictions, driving records, etc. You have to pay a monthly fee like I do but well worth the 20 bucks.

Yelp on the other hand has deleted some of my positive comments on their web site because I refused to advertise with them. Do a Yelp history search and see how corrupt that organization is.

Oh I almost forgot with the snow plowing. STAY AWAY from the organizations that are the "middle man". Only deal directly with the property owner. I was contacted by these people and had a couple of contracts sent to me cause I was curious in what they wanted for snow service. Bottom line is if you dont follow the contract stipulations to the "T", your screwed. I've read many horror stories on the snow plow forums about this. I know what commercial sites use the "middle man" in my area and every year there is a new plow contractor doing the lot. I wonder why??


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## blades (Mar 31, 2018)

Because it is almost impossible to get paid- let alone in a timely manner. Couple years back middle man for plowing out of Mich. for Autozone stores. had them send me a copy of the contract, looked it over real close, called them back and said 50% up front, balance due Dec 1. Lots of excuses why that was not possible. Told them no tickee no washee. This is standard for a seasonal contract around here. Also weeds out the no pay types real quick. If the first half doesn't arrive nothing gets done, and account is dropped from list. If the balance is not paid by Jan 1, same action applies.
If that type of clause is not present in the contract walk away. Ya its a hard line, but its my wallet that takes the beating other wise. No fancy language just two plain statements that can't be twisted by some fancy mouth piece. Al;ways write your contract with your self as the sole discretionary person regarding plowable and /or salting situations. Leave no wiggle room. It's your tail in the sling other wise in this litigation crazy society. Chris, Mr. B's Blades


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## rarefish383 (Apr 16, 2018)

No disrespect to the OP. He came here with a rant about people stealing his business. What does this have to do with injuries and fatalities? Then he hasn't been seen since January 28th. But the post just won't go away. I counted 5 typos in his rant, maybe he isn't losing work because Home Advisor is stealing it, but because he submits poorly written estimates. There is always somebody trying to make a buck off of others work. Forty years ago, the State of Maryland, offered my Dad an invitation to submit a bid to clear all of the big green signs along 95 passing through the state. We were licensed and insured, but for the residential work we did, bonding was not required. When he contacted our insurance company about bonding, they said they could do it, but recommended we not submit a contract. They said we would eventually get paid, but the State was notorious for stretching out the payment to the last second that was legal, and if you went bankrupt waiting, oh well. So, seek and follow good advice. Businessmen have always had to put up with fly by night competition and shaky advertising ploys. Maybe this qualifies as AI&F because they hurt his feelings, Joe.


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## CLASSIIILVR (Dec 14, 2018)

WHY THE HECK WOULD SOMEONE PAY A MIDDLE MAN? CRAZY TO ME THAT PEOPLE DONT HAVE THE COMMON SENSE TO DEAL WITH A PHONE OPERATOR IN A ANOTHER STATE WHO SELLS THE JOB OFF TO A LOCAL BIZ OWNER OR A FRANCHISE COMPANY HIRING ANY ILLEGAL THAT THEY CAN FIND TO PUT TO WORK! BLOWS MY MIND! 
PEOPLE NEED TO KEEP THEIR MONEY AND JOBS LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL AND DEAL DIRECTLY WITH A REPUTABLE LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER FACE TO FACE!!!!!!


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 25, 2022)

rarefish383 said:


> No disrespect to the OP. He came here with a rant about people stealing his business. What does this have to do with injuries and fatalities? Then he hasn't been seen since January 28th. But the post just won't go away. I counted 5 typos in his rant, maybe he isn't losing work because Home Advisor is stealing it, but because he submits poorly written estimates. There is always somebody trying to make a buck off of others work. Forty years ago, the State of Maryland, offered my Dad an invitation to submit a bid to clear all of the big green signs along 95 passing through the state. We were licensed and insured, but for the residential work we did, bonding was not required. When he contacted our insurance company about bonding, they said they could do it, but recommended we not submit a contract. They said we would eventually get paid, but the State was notorious for stretching out the payment to the last second that was legal, and if you went bankrupt waiting, oh well. So, seek and follow good advice. Businessmen have always had to put up with fly by night competition and shaky advertising ploys. Maybe this qualifies as AI&F because they hurt his feelings, Joe.


 The reason I had not been seen is because I was busy. Evidently you are either one of those people being taken by those piranhas or someone who knows knothibg about what is happening in the world of operating a business. You can count typos count this…wht a idit. Gt Alif….


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 25, 2022)

rarefish383 said:


> No disrespect to the OP. He came here with a rant about people stealing his business. What does this have to do with injuries and fatalities? Then he hasn't been seen since January 28th. But the post just won't go away. I counted 5 typos in his rant, maybe he isn't losing work because Home Advisor is stealing it, but because he submits poorly written estimates. There is always somebody trying to make a buck off of others work. Forty years ago, the State of Maryland, offered my Dad an invitation to submit a bid to clear all of the big green signs along 95 passing through the state. We were licensed and insured, but for the residential work we did, bonding was not required. When he contacted our insurance company about bonding, they said they could do it, but recommended we not submit a contract. They said we would eventually get paid, but the State was notorious for stretching out the payment to the last second that was legal, and if you went bankrupt waiting, oh well. So, seek and follow good advice. Businessmen have always had to put up with fly by night competition and shaky advertising ploys. Maybe this qualifies as AI&F because they hurt his feelings, Joe.


 The list was about how the internet is gaining monopolies on small businesses.. I don’t think this issue was even around 30 yrs ago when you couldn’t wait for the state to pay you. Funny they always had me very good in 30 days


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## cuttinupferalivin (Jan 25, 2022)

rarefish383 said:


> No disrespect to the OP. He came here with a rant about people stealing his business. What does this have to do with injuries and fatalities? Then he hasn't been seen since January 28th. But the post just won't go away. I counted 5 typos in his rant, maybe he isn't losing work because Home Advisor is stealing it, but because he submits poorly written estimates. There is always somebody trying to make a buck off of others work. Forty years ago, the State of Maryland, offered my Dad an invitation to submit a bid to clear all of the big green signs along 95 passing through the state. We were licensed and insured, but for the residential work we did, bonding was not required. When he contacted our insurance company about bonding, they said they could do it, but recommended we not submit a contract. They said we would eventually get paid, but the State was notorious for stretching out the payment to the last second that was legal, and if you went bankrupt waiting, oh well. So, seek and follow good advice. Businessmen have always had to put up with fly by night competition and shaky advertising ploys. Maybe this qualifies as AI&F because they hurt his feelings, Joe.


And to answer your question, the majority of injuries happening in the tree care industry is by those that don’t know what they’re doing… the same types of people that are relying on pay for lead generation companies to sustain them in work. Idiot


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 25, 2022)

cuttinupferalivin said:


> And to answer your question, the majority of injuries happening in the tree care industry is by those that don’t know what they’re doing… the same types of people that are relying on pay for lead generation companies to sustain them in work. Idiot


Welcome back! U havnt changd a bit!


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## Husky Man (Jan 26, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Welcome back! U havnt changd a bit!



Nope, Sadly it seems that he hasn’t 
I don’t know either cuttinupferalivin , or Joe (rarefish383), other than just from the forums.
I will say though, that after having read many of Joe’s posts over the years, he speaks as though he he knows what he is speaking about, and usually does so very eloquently.

Joe speaks from Experience, and I have learned from him, and learned to Listen to him.

The OP, hasn’t Earned that respect yet, and from what I have read so far, isn’t likely too.

Doug


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## Dave1960_Gorge (Feb 2, 2022)

Tried Home Advisor for a while when business was slow. Did not like it at all. Its set up so that the HA gets their fees for leads sent to multiple companies for a single job that is easy to miss; unless you limit the hours and days in which you receive leads so that you can respond within minutes, or answer your phone 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, you ae gonna miss it. I got billed for leads I received at 10 or 11 at night on a weekend! Home Advisor does not make a point of telling you that you basically need a 24, 7 operator or you are wasting your money. I paid maybe $500 over 6 mths and got two opportunities to meet a potential client and write an estimate, but got neither job -- both potential clients were really just interested in price and not quality. I have done much better by WOM and repeat business, and offering quality at a reasonable (but not cheapest) price. Would not recommend.


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## Old-Feller (Aug 25, 2022)

cuttinupferalivin said:


> As a tree service owner operator, I am appalled at how places such as Home Advisor, 1-800 contractor, Prch.com, and other internet companies are taking jobs from potential customers then selling them back to the tree service owner...Home Advisor has gained a monopoly on the tree service market ...then there's places like Monster Tree that is seeking franchises to people who have more money than they know what to do with...
> Tree work is a occupation that is slowly learned and when operating a tree service, you should earn your wah into the field...it is life threatening work and these newbies that are cutting throats on estimates will get theirs...keep on using dull saws, cause you can't sharpen one, keep on hiring just anyone, and watch what happens to your company..readon I say this is because I'm witnessing it..


You don't have to buy it from them?


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## rarefish383 (Aug 26, 2022)

I retired from a 4 generation business. I was lucky that we already had a client base. There used to be two uninsured brothers from VA, that came over into MD. If they saw a tree company talking to a customer, one would wait till you left, nock on the door, and say they would under cut any written bid by at least 10%. The next day the other would come by and say he would do the same. We lost a lot of work to them. We were licensed and insured, good equipment, top climbers and ground crews. One day a customer called livid. Those fly by night guys caught his wife and she gave them the job. It was a big dead Oak they had built the deck around. They put a rope in the top, notched the tree and dropped it, right across the deck crushing it. Then told the customer there was no other way. Of course they didn't have insurance, and part of their scheme was to get the discounted price, they had to pay half up front in cash. Low ballers have always been around. Companies that Sell work for you have been around for 50 years. We were in the Washington DC, MD area. The high end clients we catered to wouldn't trust those kind of services, knowing they worked with low end companies that couldn't get their own work. But, those two guys from Culpepper could talk a sweet line and got some of our work.


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## blades (Aug 26, 2022)

same xxxx goes on in the snow plowing biz, and plenty of other kinds of biz as well. i checked into one of those for the plow biz. leads they came back with were mostly co or people that i already new that had a tendancey to not pay or extremely slow. Or the expectations of service were outlandish. one i remember was a hotel chain- frickin nightmare. Then of course you had to be totally insuried and they were paying about $.20 on the Dollar to you.


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