# How would you like to work on this tree?



## crtreedude (Sep 28, 2004)

Hi all,

I thought you might enjoy this tree - pretty old ojoche, by the way, the little critters at the bottom are cows!


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 28, 2004)

Should have shrunk that pic a little.


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## crtreedude (Sep 28, 2004)

Yeah, I know, still trying to figure out how!


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 28, 2004)

Paint.

Nice tree.


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## NeTree (Sep 28, 2004)

Freaky tree... you should post that in the SCARY LOOKING TREE thread.

Looks like it'd be a blast to work though.

What's wrong with the moo's?


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## Tree Machine (Sep 28, 2004)

Look at the buttress on that wonder!


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## crtreedude (Sep 28, 2004)

Believe it or not, those are normal sized cows. 

Anyone want to help clean it of epiphytes? Not that it would do much good at this point - the tree is pretty much dead. 

This one is not on my property, but at the land of the cousins of my business partners where I fish the Rio Muerte. Strange, that means dead river in English, but it is the best river to fish around.

We have a very live Ojoche on our finca (farm) that is almost as big - about 8 feet in diameter trunk and about 200 feet tall, absolutely gorgeous. Thankfully, not many epiphytes on it that have to be cleaned. I swear, I get a cold spot in my stomache just thinking of going up that tree. The first limb has got to be about 150 feet up!  I don't have much experience climbing trees yet and I sure don't want to start on that monster.

I am not sure, but I think this tree is somewhere between 100 to 150 years old - trees aren't very old usually in the tropics, they grow big, and then are pulled over by the vines and epiphytes. 

I have some surá on the property that are only about 20 years old that are about 100 feet tall and 2 feet in diameter. Surá is used for making roof beams in houses, I think it is as hard as oak.


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## rumination (Sep 28, 2004)

Fred,

you got the scientific names on ojoche and sura?

just curious


thanks


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## DDM (Sep 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rumination _
> *Fred,
> 
> you got the scientific names on ojoche and sura?
> ...



From the looks of it is a Mesaof-HolySheeet


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## rumination (Sep 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DDM _
> *From the looks of it is a Mesaof-HolySheeet
> 
> *


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

Okay, I am sure of the surá, because we grow it.

Surá = terminalia oblonga, specific weight 0.65

Ojoche = Brosiminm spp. (Alicastrum group), I think this is correct. I am not growing though it is a very good wood for wood sculpture and doors I am told. It may be on a list for the future, almost certainly.


By the way, I was searching for information on the Ojoche tree and found an article about with a picture in it, that I forgot about. 

http://www.ecoworld.org/Trees/articles/articles2.cfm?TID=350

It is the same tree with a rather handsome guy standing at the bottom of it, if I do say so myself. ;-)


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## Tree Machine (Sep 29, 2004)

I'm trying to think of a good tool to use to rid the limbs of the epiphytes. The bromeliads, you can just give those a boot, but the mosses, and orchids hold on much more tenaciously. Prolly not many orchids as they're not very fond of full sun. Popping off bromeliads, from a distance, would be like aerial billiards with a 3-meter cue.

Tool # 1 might work; smaller and lighter than a hard-toothed garden rake. But you've goitta be right there in the vicinity. Tool # 2 would be a bad choice, likely scraping of cambial layer.

I would keep tool #1 lanyarded to myself, but would count on doing most of the removal with my feet, and assistance from the Silky saw tip. I could see some utility in a Hyuachi pole saw, but again, when you do reaches with a sharp tool to remove bio-debris from the topside of limbs, there's the chance of scarring them up accidentally. 

Another 'reach' tool might be a wire-raiser on three or four pole sections. Takes some skill to maneuver that setup while on rope and you wouldn't be able to 'scrub' like if you were right there on top of it, but you could yank off the worst and give yourself a 3 or 4 meter reach advantage.

Either way, limb-walking is the only way out there. My limb walking is out over roofs, power lines, porches, decks, awnings. I've honestly never had cattle as one of my obstacles. Podemos a mover las vacas alla, por favor?


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

Don't you want to leave the cows so you have something to cushion the fall?  

Of course, land on the toro and you might be in for a ride.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 29, 2004)

I would bury the buggers in moss.


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

By the way, on your Spanish,

Podemos a mover las vacas alla, por favor?

Should be:

Si se puedan mover las vacas alla, por favor?

Unless you are planning on helping move them yourself, and then it would be:

Podemos mover las vacas alla, por favor?

The a is not necessary, it is part of mover, which is the infinitive, to move.

I feel so thrilled  , I was able to explain something in Spanish - around here I sound like a 2 year old (on good days)

My reading and writing is much better.

Fred


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## fmueller (Sep 29, 2004)

Those cows sure look like goats on this PC. Even if so, thats an impressive hunk o tree there. Is that wood any good for anything or is it diseased? Looks like it would make some nice sawlogs!


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

Those cows are not goats, they are pretty large, normal size cows, say about 1,000 lbs each. So, that will give you an idea of the size of that tree.

Not sure if the trees is still worth anything - possible since it is still standing some of the wood will be good. Ojoche is very good wood for doors and such.


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## fmueller (Sep 29, 2004)

Sorry, guess I need a new monitor, new glasses, and less imagination. It would be awesome to stand next to that thing and be there! Nice pic!


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

Actually, I have to admit, I went back to the original (2 megapixel) photo to be sure. The ones that look like goats are brahmas, horns and all. 

Yeah, it is pretty incredible to see them. When we used to live in NJ and used to visit the plantation, when we would go back to USA, all the trees looked like shrubs, even the oaks. The difference between a 60 foot oak and a 200 foot ojoche is incredible.


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## fmueller (Sep 29, 2004)

So what kind of soil is it down there that supports such a behemoth?


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

Try volcanic - of course rainforest trees can get huge with little or no soil, just lots of sun and water.

On the farm, we have about a half a meter of volcanic topsoil - and it is really rich.

Does anyone want to see some pictures of my neighbor? Do a search for Arenal Volcano - he is within about 25 kilometers from me - as the crow files.


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## Dadatwins (Sep 29, 2004)

Stump grinders nightmare.


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## crtreedude (Sep 29, 2004)

You have no idea... Out in one field I have a large stump, it is not as big as this one, but about 12 people could probably sit around it. It looks like it was cut about a year ago, no real rot, still solid.

It is 30 years old. Cortese wood. The stuff is so hard that it won't absorb water. Even sharp chainsaws smoke when trying to cut the stuff. Don't even try an axe! 

Makes really good bridges. We bought a log about 80 feet long this year to fix a bridge across our river. Drop about three of them across a small river, fill inbetween with rock and gravel and you got a bridge that will last for years.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 29, 2004)

On this tree, and any (tall tree) for that matter, I would start with 1.75 mm Zing-it line and a bigshot. I would use a smaller shotbag, in the 10-12 ounce range (286-343 g). Figure on being able to nail a limb about a hundred feet up. If you plan to have climbs beyond 150 feet in the air, that kind of tree would be a day project.

If most of the work will be done in the lower canopy, say below 100 feet (30 M), then many of us can offer you help. Above 130 feet (40 M) I have never even been there and can't offer any technical advice.

Below 100 feet, almost all of us can help you. Please describe what would be some of your goals, # of trees, general heights, more pics. What do you have for climbing gear?

ps. How do you move an 80' log (or three of them?)


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## NickfromWI (Sep 29, 2004)

Is it just me or does that tree lack sufficient foliage to make it worth the while to try to clean it up?

love
nick, the costa rican!


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## Tree Machine (Sep 29, 2004)

We're not really talking about this tree, per se. It's just one of the tall guys on his finca.

We're trying to get at 'What is a more regular type of tree' that would need de-mossing, etc. I'm thinking the live oak guys in the south, southeast US would have something to contribute.


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## fmueller (Sep 30, 2004)

Sure, lets see your neighbor.


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## crtreedude (Sep 30, 2004)

The picture of the volcano is here

http://www.fincaleola.com/photo_gallery.htm

There are hundreds of pictures in this section, but the volcano is one of the ones on the entry page.

You are correct, I would not try to clean this one, but I do have some pretty big ones to clean. First though I am going to go slow and low, and 150 feet up does not qualify.

Maybe a balloon would work, or a helicoptor.  

I have a pretty complete assortment of climbing gear, ropes, ascenders, descenders, etc. The ascenders were purchased from a arborist source. The rope is static (150 feet) and I also have a lot of dynamic rope as well for once I am in the tree.

Pretty much a rhetorical question at this point, I am just thinking, "How in the heck would you handle something like that!"

Who knows, perhaps it is hollow inside and I could build a staircase inside the trunk like in Swiss Family Robinson....


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## crtreedude (Sep 30, 2004)

I have lots of pictures of Arenal so we are going to add a page to the website today for anyone who wants to look at them. 

I have been meaning to do this for about 3 months, so this will get me to finally do it!


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## rumination (Sep 30, 2004)

Arenal is incredible. I have fond memories of lying in the hot springs at night and watching red hot boulders flying out the top of the volcano. You're a lucky man to live where you do.


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## crtreedude (Sep 30, 2004)

It is a hard life, but someone has to do it.  

Of course, I have layed around in the hotsprings for a while, like about a year, been too busy. 

Given that our temperature in the montains is about 78 degrees year round, the tropical fruits are great and cheap.

There are downsides, third world services and governments are enough to turn the remainder of my hair white.  

We have had a business here for 2 years, but just moved down to stay about 2 months ago, still adjusting, but having a great time.


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## crtreedude (Sep 30, 2004)

Well, after slaving over a hot keyboard today, just for you guys, my wife made a new page on the website.

http://www.fincaleola.com/arenal_volcano.htm

For all you fellow volcano watchers, enjoy. By the way, you don't clean up the trees on the slope of the volcano, them hot rocks are a bit difficult to dodge...


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## Tree Machine (Sep 30, 2004)

Yes, Arenal used to be a perfectly-shaped cinder cone and one tall, tall, TALL volcano at that. The sides, very, very steep. As Rumi says, the volcano is active. You could watch the eruptions better than once an hour, with a really good one every now and then. 

If you're lucky and clouds are absent, and you're paying attention, you can alert your friends of volcanic activity in advance of the rumbling sound of the burping giant. Very impressive to see a mountain belching out glowing boulders the size of houses. They just bounce on down the side of the cone, almost in slow motion, and come to rest about 1/3 of the way down.

You can fish for guapote in lake arenal, at night, for a really special volcano watching experience. Then about 11:00 you go have beers at the hot springs, just up the road, and volcano-watch from a different perspective. 

Bummer dog that it blew it's upper side out a few years back. Still an impressive and highly active volcano.


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## crtreedude (Sep 30, 2004)

The nice thing about Arenal is that, as the name implies, it is just a very large sand pile. (Arena is sand in Spanish) This means it doesn't every build up a lot of pressure.

They scientist think that part of the funnel will collapse in the next 30 days, diverting the lava somewhere else, probably straight at Tabacon. 

My favorite volcano watching place, besides the plantation, is Los Lagos. Not very expensive (7 dollars), several pools of different temperature, wet bar, and unbelieveable views of the volcano.

Pretty good food in the restaraunt to.

The next time you are in town, let me know. I show you the non-tourist side of Costa Rica. Much more interesting, and quite fun.

Fred


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## Tree Machine (Sep 30, 2004)

And I would show you how to limb walk where no man has walked before. For right now, we'll have to do it though cyberspace.

The BigShot and a pole is the essential 'missing tool' I see so far. 

Once you could fire a shot bag high into the canopy, and get it to come down the other side, then you can start talkin about climbing, and limb-walking and working hands-free up there. Sounds like you have the gear to get you there.

What is your decending piece? We want a pic.


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## OutOnaLimb (Sep 30, 2004)

OK, the only question is how much are ya gonna pay me to come down there and help ya out for a few months. Se Habla Espanol.

Kenn


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## Tree Machine (Sep 30, 2004)

I think they start you out at 70 cents per hour.


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## crtreedude (Oct 1, 2004)

Man, we pay a lot more than that! 400 colones per hour is starting wage (conversion rate is 450 colones to the dollar)!

For skilled labor, we pay about $2.50 per hour. However, if any of you are in the neighborhood.... One free trip to the hotsprings is on me!

I don't use no wimpy slingshot guys to set lines. I have a compound bow! That'll reach the top of any tree. 80 lb dacron fishing line - I figure if it is good enough for carp, it is good enough to set a line.

For descenders, I have a Gri-Gri or Figure 8s. I also have the belaying device I use for rock climbing.


Okay, you are losing me on the pole, are you talking a pole saw? I have a couple, also I have a collapsable pole as well.

I am hoping today or tommorrow to start on small smaller trees, first limb about 15 to 20 feet. I'll save the orchids.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 2, 2004)

Uh, you clearly haven't seen the slingshot. It's not what anyone would call wimpy. It's more like a slingshot on a double dose of steroids.

A compound bow might work if you don't sink he arrow into the tree. Might be awesome for 150 foot-high sets. Also, it has to come backdown the other side, and whether your arrow has enough weight to get it back to the ground remains to be seen. 

Also, our ZingIt 1.75 mm line is about 560 lb tensile and is slick and very abrasion resistant. I have no idea how dacron will work, but I believe it will work.

The pole I speak of is what you mount the BigShot atop. It can be 6' or 8'. I prefer 6.

If you're setting your line up to about 40 feet, skip the bow and just throw the weight over the limb. Mebbe you can take the reel off the bow to do this. Toss the weight over, trace it back down along parallel to the 'up' line. Unhook your weight, attach the climbing rope, pull the whole thing back up and over and down. Unhook dacron from rope. You have just set your rope. There should be two parallel lines, ends hanging on the ground. The limb you're over should be inward, toward the trunk / crotch. Do you have any questions about this part? Make sure you set the rope higher than the point where you intend to climb.


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## fmueller (Oct 2, 2004)

Nice limb walking shot. So how do you get a free hand to do any sawing and keep your balance? Do you wrap your legs around the branch and ridem cowboy ?
Dunno cause I'm just a weekend hacker/slacker. Also that limb looks pretty precarious, like it would break with your weight on it. I'm interested, how bout some more detail on this picture?


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 2, 2004)

You just lean forward/down, and cut. One hand on the saw, the other on the rope as your way to fine tune yur balance.

I think I said that right.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 3, 2004)

Sorry, that picture does deserve some explaining. I was showing how to go half way out on a compromised limb using _no weight_. By pulling yourself along, hand over hand, your feet float. The goal was to set a sling, and come back, without using feet, or putting any downward force on the compromised limb.

This means getting out there, hold yourself suspended with one hand; use the other to get a sling off your saddle, and choker it one-handed, and set a tagline in it. Then you get back to the trunk, still no feet.

It was just a game. The groundie was there to take a photo if my feet touched, and dang nabbit, he got me here.




TIAAJ


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## NeTree (Oct 3, 2004)

Nice hardhat.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 3, 2004)

On this limb, I solved the problem by doing a redirect above the sling site, and abseiling down. I used a light lateral side force with my knee to stabilize, and nailed it shut this time.

You probably shouldn't climb like this. I don't, usually, but it was a technical dare, so to speak. My groundguy had seen some  situations this last Spring after storms.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 3, 2004)

Yea, Fred? You should wear your hardhat 

If it is 93 degrgees F and humid as, say, a rain forest, you ar eultimately in personal choice of whether you do or not. Heat prostration is not a good thing if you're up in a tree. Do carry water. This can be an intensely physical sport until you get the confidence and experience and understanding of physics. Water is your ammo, and the Camelback your secret weapon.

Now that you can stay hydrated, you can focus clearly and safely on your task at hand. We'll help you with that all we can.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 3, 2004)

Also, I wanted to address Fred's question on the 'pole'. Here's a pic from a few years ago, before ZingIt line was developed. She's using a BigShot with a 6' pole. In this particular method I had her do as I do, fire from the crux of the hip. 

This is not the only way to fire a BigShot. Some like an 8' pole with a boot. I imagine there's at least 50 ways to leverage you launchings. 

you could fire at will, Bill,
shoot for the limb, Jim 
Launch a 12 oz bag, Jag
Make an easy lob, Billy Bob

 

Tienes preguntas, Don Fred? Did you do any climbs over the weekend? Tell us 

How

you

did....


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## crtreedude (Oct 3, 2004)

Oh boy do I have questions. Yep, I did my first climb. I survived. I only went up about 16 to 20 feet, thankfully. I did not fall, but I have a lot of fun descending. 

Settting the ropes was easy, first throw was perfect (amazing) and then I tied off on the trunk to make it a SRT. (I think) I have ascended a single rope before in a ropes course, but this was different.

I'll tell you what, at great embarrassment to me, I will post the story. I write a series of stories called Life in the Campo which some of you might have read on my website. I sat down and whipped up one about my first climb. I'll post it and you can all have fun telling everything I did wrong.

I have the strangest way of getting into the weirdest predicaments.


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## crtreedude (Oct 3, 2004)

As promised, this is a whimsical story I thought you might like about my first climb, if you want to call it that.  I figured since you all have been helpful that I would share this with you.

------------------------

All Tied Up in Knots - A Life on the Campo story.

Back some time ago, my brother and my daughter got me hooked on the sport of rock climbing. Up to that point, I would never have called myself fit, but with rock climbing, it encourages you to lose whatever extra weight you have as well as develop strength in your hands. This, of course, is incredibly useful in dealing with overenthusiastic sales people as well as in cracking nuts. There is also the joy that comes from having white hair and being able to easily go up obstacles that most jocks only wish they could. I call this the revenge-of-the-nerd rock climber.

A concern that I had about moving to Costa Rica is that I would have to give up my home rock gym and that there were no good places to climb. I mean, we are talking a rainforest. Everything has vegetation. Also, because of the daily rains, any granite or similarly good climbing surface quickly becomes eroded and also covered with slime. 

I did check for rock climbing in Costa Rica, and there are a couple of places; both are more than 2 hours away. So rock climbing is not going to happen for me in Costa Rica, unless of course I build another rock gym.

I made the decision to pursue a new direction—tree climbing. Now, this is not like when you were a kid. These trees go straight up 75 feet or so to the first limb. Unlike rock climbing, I can actually justify this sport economically, since I am an owner of a tree plantation. It is actually important to clear off the epiphytes and vines from valuable trees, or their mass will eventually kill the tree and drag it down. These are not the trees we are planting for reforestation, but the older trees on the property, of which there are hundreds.

The first requirement of any sport is that the gear is cool. Understand, I have been rock climbing for about 5 years. You would think that I would have enough gear for tree climbing. Nothing could be further from the truth. You see, my dynamic rope is not suitable for ascending into a tree, so I needed to purchase 150 feet of 1/2" static rope especially designed for an arborist. Also, when rock climbing, you ascend using your hands, feet, and any other handy body part. The rope and harness are only to protect you if (when) you fall. So, I of course had to purchase a cool pair of ascenders. Also, I did not have enough carabiners, so I purchased about half a dozen more, plus devices for descending, which are not usually necessary in rock climbing, because your partner just lowers you.

About $400 later, I now have the additional gear I need for tree climbing. It fills one large duffle bag and a large box. I feel secure. Of course, if I were to drape it over my body, I would probably double my weight, but no problem. Also, I decided to use my alpine harness, which is not terribly comfortable but adequate for sitting in for short periods of time. The reuse of my harness is to demonstrate my frugality.

Finally, I secured a worker to help. First, I need a person to help carry all of the gear, and second, I need a ground crew to hand me tools when I need them. A great piece of luck, Luis used to work at a tourist site where he had seen people climbing trees with ropes and such. Since my Spanish is not great, having a person who had some idea what I was attempting was a great benefit.

Our first pitch, in rock climbing terms, was an old, huge mango tree. It is estimated that it is 50 years old, and that is quite old for a mango tree. Its diameter is probably 3 feet and it is about 60 feet tall. It is totally covered with epiphytes and small vines, and some of the epiphytes are quite large. It is one of the few trees near the barn and provides shade for the horses, so we really want to preserve it. It doesn’t provide mangos, unfortunately, because the altitude of the tree plantation is too low for good mangos.

We went around to the back side of the tree so that we would not be working in the mud. Of course, this was based on a strong hope that I would not need the soft landing the mud would have provided. I am happy to report that I did not need the mud. I had other problems.

We started out well. I had bought (of course) a special weight and rope for throwing into the tree so that you could pull up the larger rope afterward. We examined the tree like pros, looking for a good place to throw the rope, and when I threw it the first time, it sailed over the limb like I had been doing it for years. I proceeded to tie off one end of the rope to the trunk and attach the ascenders to the other end. I started to go up the rope, slowly and carefully (also slowly because it isn’t easy) until I got about 20 feet up. Excellent. Luis, my ground crew, was impressed and possibly thought that the gringo is not loco after all.

I pulled off a few epiphytes and vines just so people would think I was actually working and not just fooling around, and then I decided it was enough for one day. Good. I let Luis know I was about to descend. I looked at my ascenders and remembered that they only go one way!

One of the problems of dangling from a rope with an alpine harness is that you have a time limit. The harness is only so comfortable; it is not meant for taking a nap. Also, anytime you try to stand up, it requires hanging onto the rope with one hand while you try to work with the other. To further compound the problem, I have a touch of fear of heights, which mean things I can easily figure out on the ground are not so obvious 20 feet up.

The problem with using the descenders I have is that the act of releasing an ascender requires having all of the weight off the ascender. If you are not completely supported by your descending device, you are going to drop, and that can be pretty hard on you when you are using rope that doesn’t stretch. So, what I needed was a device that would ascend and descend—which of course I didn’t own. I would normally be very happy about this because I can buy another tool, but not when I am stuck 20 feet up in the air.

Thankfully, I had a book with me on knots for climbers and there is a really great knot called a prusik knot. It is used for ascending and descending which allows it to replace the upper ascender and then you can lower yourself with the knot and lower ascender. First, we had to get a piece of rope and cut it to size. Luis did not have a knife on him, so I had to dig mine out of my pocket and of course the top of my pocket was pinched closed with the harness. This took more time. After Luis cut the rope, I had to look up a knot to use to tie two ends of a rope together securely (since it was going to have to support me). Never having had to tie this knot before, I needed Luis to hold the book up so that I could see how to do it. Of course, while I am doing this, the harness is slowly cutting me in two.

After considerable contortions, I managed to get the prusik tied and attached to both the harness and to the rope and removed the upper ascender. Being in a hurry to release the tourniquet known as a harness, I start moving down. About 6 inches from the ground, I JAMMED THE PRUSIK. Argh! Nothing looks sillier than being stuck 6 inches from the ground. There is no way to release yourself, because you can’t get enough slack to do it. 

I was seriously thinking of asking Luis to get under me so that I could use him for a stool to get off the rope. But, since my Spanish is none too good, I was almost sure that there was no way I could explain it without causing offense, and I sure didn’t want him to abandon me. Normally I could have easily freed up the prusik, but I was getting tired, and my hands were getting very sweaty. I could do nothing but sit there and engage Luis in idle chatter until I figured out that all I had to do was stand up on the foot loop of the lower ascender, then unclip the prusik loop and then step out of the foot loop. Relieved to be on solid ground again, I savored the sensation of standing on terra firma. It was then that I discovered another reason to be behind the tree—I had performed my aerial ballet out of sight of all the workers.

All in all, it was a very successful ascent. I survived with nothing more than a slightly bruised ego and tush. Wait 'til next time!

-------------------

Other Life in the Campo stories are found at http://www.fincaleola.com/life_on_the_campo.htm


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 3, 2004)

*Dang, Fred!*

Don't hold back, eh?


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## crtreedude (Oct 3, 2004)

Yeah, well hopefully I am a better writer than tree climber!

Okay, what should I have done? Obviously, using only ascenders was stupid - you know that other thread I started that asked what was the differences between rock climbing and tree climbing? Well, I think I would now say, you have to be concerned first in tree climbing on how you are getting back down!

Suggest away guys. Surely something obvious is staring me right in the face.


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## crtreedude (Oct 3, 2004)

You probably are right, it is a 1/2" rope now that I checked. 

Okay, I will check out the double with blakes hitch. I have read an article from Tom about the SRT and it looked very interesting and similar to what I have experience with so it appealed.


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## crtreedude (Oct 3, 2004)

KISS eh? Okay, well I deserve it after Saturday.

Any other words of wisdom out there?


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## jimmyq (Oct 3, 2004)

I was under the impression that the prussik is for ascent, only for use as a secondary descender with a figure eight or other device as primary friction provider.


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## glens (Oct 3, 2004)

I'd like to recommend you drape both ends of the rope and climb them together as if a single rope.&nbsp; Having two strands allows the friction hitch to work without binding.&nbsp; Also, both strands fit the hands and feet (footlocking) quite well.&nbsp; There's nothing more satisfying than moving your friction hitch up 2' and being 2' further from the ground at the same time.&nbsp; The "traditional" method puts half the weight on the friction hitch (and your feet when footlocking) but you usually don't get quite the 2:1 advantage because of friction.&nbsp; So you're expending almost as much effort (certainly not half) for half the vertical advancement.&nbsp; No thank you very much.

I'd use a single strand if the friction hitch didn't bind so hard.&nbsp; The double rope gets a bit unwieldy due to weight of the rope, the farther up you get.&nbsp; But that's about the only real drawback.

You can use a figure-eight descender no matter the method you use to get off the ground.

Nice story.

Glen


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## Tree Machine (Oct 4, 2004)

*Very good tree climb story !*



> _Originally posted by Tree Machine _
> *Make sure you set the rope higher than the point where you intend to climb. *



Did you do this? You should learn how to do a mid-air switchover for the practical reason of if you ever _need_ to do it, but normally you'll just ascend up to a limb, stand on it, securely and comfortably, flipline in for safety, set your descending piece, remove your ascenders, work the tree.

Rocky speaks of 99.9% of treeguys using a conventional doubled rope technique with a friction hitch. Quite possibly true. I'm in the 0.1% school, but that's because I choose to keep moving onto different systems in the mechanical device world. I'm a treeguy, but came from the rock world and currently hang with the caving community (except for a weekend at TCIA EXPO). This enables me to see and try a lot of different systems, and climb frequently as if my living depended on it.....

I've used all the friction hitches, just to have firsthand experience with them, but I find devices, once employed properly, to be swift, safe, less complicated, overall greater climbing advantage, and more easily taught. That's just me. You'll need to choose your initial method. However, *the flipline is an absolutely necessary treeguy thing.* 

I would ordinarily mebbe suggest you go conventional, except that you have moist, vegetative matter all over your limbs. A traditional DbRT will grind your rope through chlorophyllic mush. 

Then there's the other points Glens points out, which is more of a consideration, I think, than the the rope getting gunked-up, or hot spots on the tree's cambium. SRT spares this, as does going up a parallel rope with backed-up dual handled ascenders. You back up with a prusik. It is rare to ascend or descend with a prusik. A fig 8 can be used SRT or doubled rope (parallel lines to the ground), or doubled rope, conventional.


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## crtreedude (Oct 4, 2004)

Thanks for the compliment. 

I prefer to work with SRT if I can, one reason is I like the idea of having a worker up in the trees and I will be belaying him in case he hits something bad, like african bees, fer-de-lance, boa, howler monkeys - you know, the regular tropical hazards. The ability to get a worker out quick is very appealing to me. 

Nope, I did not go above, I thought I was just going to do a quick test, and then come down.  Ah well. Of course, I need to know how to do a switch over in case I need to descend quickly.

So, what would you recommend when you have to come down and can not get your feet under you?


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## Tree Machine (Oct 4, 2004)

*First climb, you are still alive. This is good.*

You're talking a slightly different animal here. SRT shouldn't be assumed identical to what you describe here. If you are belaying someone up in a tree, that is called top-roping, and is not a treeguy thing. This might be common in recreational tree climbing settings, but practically speaking, a treeguy does not want to be belayed by someoone else. That's putting our lives in someone else's hands; modus operundi in the rock world, unheard of by professional tree climbers, except in a rescue scenario.

SRT, to us, means anchoring one end of the rope, usually around the base of the trunk, ascending up the other end, and working off the rope as your own belay (self-belay).

Before we cut, we also secure into a limb or stem with the flipline so we are_tied in twice_. Follow this with 'stupid' and you have 'tie in twice stupid', or tits, as we like to refer to it.

I don't often use knots, since I'm hardware-oriented. I don't tie in twice, I CLip In Twice Stupid, but we try to keep our voices down with that one.

Wise to consider your being able to get a man down, from the ground. We can show you rigging scenarios for that. Good forsight.

Where do you get your gear? Who ships to Costa Rica?

To show you a mid-air switchover, we would have to know exactly the gear you are using to ascend and descend. Send us pics, Fred. We want you to be safe, secure and comfortable. Right now, you are the blind leading the blind, but we're hangin with ya. Many here are willing to contibute to your success.


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## crtreedude (Oct 4, 2004)

Believe me, I appreciate all of the information. My biggest concern is learning enough to make sure everyone on the plantation is safe. To say that corners are sometimes cut in a third world country is an understatement.

Almost anyone will ship to me, I have a Miami address that forwards stuff to me in about a week, so there is no problem.

As far as flip line, absolutely, makes perfect sense. 

I will be moving very slow, trust me, there is nothing that needs to be done either this week or next so I have no need to rush anything. 

I'll take pictures of my gear in the next day or so. But assume I have a bunch, and it there is something that works well, I have no problem buying it.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 4, 2004)

For now, just a shot of ascenders + rigging, descending device, tress cords and slings.


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## NickfromWI (Oct 18, 2004)

Let's get those pictures!


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## crtreedude (Oct 19, 2004)

Sorry for being so late. You know, I thought when I moved to Costa Rica, life would become a LITTLE less crazy, but no. Not only do I have the plantation and computer work and adapting to a new culture, including language, but also I am trying to find 500 cubic meters per month of teak for a buyer. Mine is not mature enough and I am trying to help a company out (for a fee of course).

This is my excuse why I have yet to do anything on pictures. I have not even touched a rope since the fourth of October.

Fred

P.S. Hopefully Friday?


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## Tree Machine (Oct 19, 2004)

*We're here to help*

That's OK, we're a patient bunch, and this is an important topic. 

Teak, um, try calling the spice and natural products shop in Quepos, owned by Tey and Milo. I volunteered and worked up on their farm about 13 or 14 years ago. I was involved with their spice farm, but he had a respectable teak plantation going at the time.

When hurricane Mitch clobbered that coast in 95, it changed a lot of things there in the foothills forever, so I don't know how these tall, slender trees held up. Tey usually runs the tienda and she is Tica with exceptionally good English and would have your answers.

No, life doesn't get easier in Costa Rica. It gets slower, whether you want it to or not. If you are an impatient, hurry-up-and-get-it-done type of person, and like to push projects through, you would pull your hair out and drive yourself mad in the Tico culture. Tranquilo, no te preocupe. I was too amped-up and ambitious for the workers around me. I had too much spunk for their liking and I had to learn how to chill.

Fred, do you have your Big Shot yet?


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## crtreedude (Oct 19, 2004)

Well, sometimes I feel like a split personality. Since a lot of the people I work with are from USA - I try to be very responsive, etc. But, when working with governments and banks, I have to have a more laid back approach.

By the way, my partner is Tico, and I swear, he is more driven than me at times. And the people who work for him are pretty driven people as well. You just have to reward for getting things down. I think the reason for the laidback attitude is similar to USA often - "Well, it ain't my money" When people are paid per tree cleaned, or per meter of fence pruned, they definitely move a lot faster in my observation. 

Since I give people a piece of the profit, it is amazing how little I have to supervise, they supervise each other. However, there is nothing I can do about the banks and government and other monopolies, that is when I have to chill out - or send Hector. ;-)


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## Tree Machine (Oct 19, 2004)

*well-done*

Your widom pours through. I admire you as a diplomat and a good bossman. Now we just need to get your climbers safe and confident and geared properly for the task. 

I suppose you'll be sending Hector to Aduanas (Customs) to pick up your gear shipments.


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## crtreedude (Oct 19, 2004)

Nope, not necessary. Under the law 7575, all my equipment for the plantation is excempt, I just have to attach the paper work to it. I am also excempt from property tax and capital gains on sales of reforestation products from the finca.

Costa Rica likes reforestors.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 19, 2004)

Excellent! We like reforesters, too. So does it end up getting shipped to you, or do you need to go into San Jose'?

We shoud ask the National Arborist Association to have their Winter Management Conference at Finca Don Fred.


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## crtreedude (Oct 19, 2004)

Usually I have things sent directly to me in San Carlos. If you guys want to have the yearly meeting at my place, we can have a climbing contest! (I'll be a judge. ;-) )


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## Nickrosis (Oct 19, 2004)

I can ask them tomorrow (it's TCIA, remember? ).


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## Tree Machine (Oct 19, 2004)

*Location, Location, Location*

Fred there's a half dozen San Carlos' in Costa Rica. Which one are you, Ciudad Quesada, Puntarenas, Cano Negro? Where is you, Fred? Donde esta, Huevon?


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## crtreedude (Oct 19, 2004)

Ciudad Quesada - The Northern Zone. We are about 40 kilometers from Arenal.

Everyone come on down, we will head over to Arenal Volcano and play in the hot springs. I am sure you all have sympathy in my living here year round.

Fred


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## Tree Machine (Oct 20, 2004)

> Everyone come on down



Careful on loosely tossing out invites. You must remember, it's Fall, soon to be Winter up here.....


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## crtreedude (Oct 20, 2004)

I figure I will get free work out of everyone....  

Showing what kind of person I am, I have a weather watch on the temperature where I come from - it is 47 degree there, and about 65 outside here right now, with a projected high about 78. (I don't have to even check, it is roughly the same every day)


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## Tree Machine (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: We're here to help*



> _Originally posted by Tree Machine _
> *Fred, do you have your Big Shot yet? *


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## crtreedude (Oct 20, 2004)

Not yet - no real need yet since I am not going up something really tall until I figure out how to get down easily.  It looks pretty nice though. 

One issue that I think I had was that as I was climbing the rope, I had to hang on to the upper part of the rope to keep upright. I was looking at some caving stuff, and they had a chest harnes that you would clip on. It would have made my life a lot easier to be able to clip on the top so that standing upright would have been a lot easier. 

So, is a chest harness standard practice?


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 20, 2004)

Is that the way ya'll shoot em? On yur thigh. like that?


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## Tree Machine (Oct 20, 2004)

*Lotsa ways to do it*

No, that's the way she did it. I fire off my beltline, just right of center.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 20, 2004)

Wow. I just do it like the guy in the Sherrill pitcher. I gotta try it yur way next.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 20, 2004)

The guy in the Sherrill pitcher is using an 8 foot pole, where the booted pole end is on the ground, and you're down on one knee. I've tried it that way, but I found a lot better accuracy using a 6 foot pole off the front right beltline.

On reaally long shots, you pull back the pouch, bend slightly at the knees, and upon release, simultaneously straighten your knees. SchhhoooOOO! I'm good to about 25 meters with the bag and line I use

On regular medium to high shots, I don't do the leg bend thing, but rather hold as still as possible, aim carefully, concentrate, focus, POW!

I still try different methods in the quest to always find a better way, but the method descibed above is my steady eddie.

Freddie, you ready? This is your thread, Fred. Shall we continue with your schooling? Cmon, Fred, picture. Harness, ascenders, descenders, slings, ....whatch got? Flipline?


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## Nickrosis (Oct 20, 2004)

Don't get yourself in the face with the Big Shot, though. People have gotten seriously messed up by it. Friends of mine with shiners, even.


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## glens (Oct 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Tree Machine _
> *I'm good to about 25 meters with the bag and line I use*



I forgot to post this earlier.

I "seen" you do "about 25 meters" (or was that part of the NDA too?&nbsp; hahaha).&nbsp; I was going to say I can reliably do 20 meters with the underhand "lob" using a 10 oz. bag / 2.2 mm zing-it.&nbsp; Wanting to verify it first, I went out to the truck, grabbed the throw-line, set the cube on the ground, took aim and put her right through a 19.5 meter (actual) crotch on my walnut.&nbsp; It might be the first time for the first time, which is usually a warmup/spoiler.&nbsp; Naturally, nobody was looking...

Jim, how's come you didn't have your fine helper with you the day I stopped by?

Glen


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## rumination (Oct 20, 2004)

I hit a 120' crotch with my Bigshot today. It was cool!


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## Stumper (Oct 20, 2004)

Leon, Did the guy cry or just pass out?


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## rumination (Oct 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> *Leon, Did the guy cry or just pass out? *



Didn't you know? The guy was Big John. That's how he got his third ball...errr, throwball, that is.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 20, 2004)

BJ would freak out in Hawaii.


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## crtreedude (Oct 21, 2004)

Tree Machine,

Tomorrow, tomorrow, mas fotos tomorrow! 

I fear I have created a monster.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 21, 2004)

Tomorrow I leave for a roadtrip that'll take me to see Gramps in Northern Michigan, enjoy the spectacular fall colors and help him get his house Winterized.

Dave Neiger, one of the Arboristsite sponsors, is having a weekend get-together for all people chainsaw. Neiger's saw shop is 25 Km north of my Gramps' house, so I'm gonna drag the old codger up there with me on Saturday (he's 90 years old).

I'll hang with Gramps until Thursday morning, and drive down to Detroit to attend the Tree Care Industry Expo Th, Fri and Saturday, possibly the Arborist community project on Sunday, then home.

I'll be gone for 10 or 11 days starting tomorrow, but there's lots of guys who can help ya here. Our goals are all the same; getting you active and safe.


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## crtreedude (Oct 21, 2004)

Perhaps this afternoon I will lug it all out and take some fotos. Enjoy your time with Gramps. Mine is 97 by the way. He is thinking of visiting me here in Costa Rica.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 21, 2004)

Cool, we'll have your Grandpa up in the trees in no time!


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## crtreedude (Oct 21, 2004)

Well, here goes - this is the basics. Add to this 150' of 1/2" static rope, and about the same amount of dynamic climbing rope.

Two handle ascenders, a regular ascender, one belay device that also works for repelling, and figure 8 with ears, a grigi, various biners and asorted hardware.

Off camera is a harness - alpine style black diamond. I didn't figure you wanted to seem my rock climbing slippers.  

I have a picture, but I can't get attached using the attached file, and it is small too!


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