# Would you sell Poplar as Hardwood firewood?



## CUCV (Dec 2, 2010)

I've been selling firewood for close to 20 years now and never sold any poplar. I've cut tons of poplar and given it to family or burned it myself. 2 years ago I had my daughter and suffered many health issues that prevented me from cutting enough fiirewood for my customers the following year. With my next kiddo weeks away I thought I would be pro-active and buy in some green wood to ensure that I would have enough wood for my customers next year. So I found a guy who would give me a fair price on green wood and I have bought over 50 cord from him. The wood has been very nice and clean and a nice mix of hardwoods, in fact the first 12 cord where mostly red oak. I just got another load of 4 cord and found it to be over 90% poplar and was very disappointed. I called they guy and he said poplar is hardwood. After a bit of reading I did find that it is in fact a soft hardwood. I think If I sold 4 one cord loads to 4 of my customers with 90%+ poplar I would loose all 4 customers. What are your thoughts on how to deal with this situation?


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## burroak (Dec 2, 2010)

He's right - poplar is a hardwood, same as cottonwood.

I have a ton of poplar I will be selling next year. However, it will be at a 20% price reduction compared to what I charge for regular hardwoods. Should be ok to sell it, just drop the price and make sure they know what they are getting before you deliver.


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## HeX0rz (Dec 2, 2010)

Tree species being a hardwood or softwood is not the issue. The BTU output from dry wood is the key. Poplar does not bother me any to burn or sell. But, like the above, because it has less BTU than the best tree species in your given area, you should reduce price. Its a big hit to take in my book. Considering that almost all wood takes about the same time to process in labor. But, because it has less BTU it is less valuable and sells for less.

Working more for less is going to become your motto for next year.


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## CUCV (Dec 2, 2010)

burroak said:


> He's right - poplar is a hardwood, same as cottonwood.
> 
> I have a ton of poplar I will be selling next year. However, it will be at a 20% price reduction compared to what I charge for regular hardwoods. Should be ok to sell it, just drop the price and make sure they know what they are getting before you deliver.



So should I ask for a discount on what I paid?


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## forestryworks (Dec 2, 2010)

Hardwood and Softwood are lumbermen terms. 

Typically, any tree that loses all of its leaves in one growing season is a hardwood, and trees that lose only some of their leaves in one growing season are softwoods.

I'd do like burroak said, do a sort of price reduction if you feel that is necessary to get the wood sold.

In the end though, wood is wood and it all burns.


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## burroak (Dec 2, 2010)

CUCV said:


> So should I ask for a discount on what I paid?


Yes, I would kindly ask him for a discount. If he refuses, I would tell him he will be no longer receiving business from me, and I will tell everyone I know not to buy from him as well.

Poplar has 1/2 the BTU's as White oak - there's no way they should be in the same price group.


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## forestryworks (Dec 2, 2010)

CUCV said:


> So should I ask for a discount on what I paid?



How did he advertise the wood? If advertised and sold as "mixed hardwood", I think any hardwood is fair game, as "mixed hardwood" is a very broad definition.


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## CUCV (Dec 2, 2010)

Well the original advertisement is long gone. In the original discussions he was happy to give me oak and other dense "red" woods that he has trouble selling seasoned because he seasons in log length. Well duh I said of course its going to burn like crap seasoning like that, but I'm happy to take it. The loads have been getting whiter and whiter...


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## thejdman04 (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't know if you are lucky enough to have any camp grounds in your area, I have one fairly close to me and get lots of campers who drive by and buy firewood. I sell some of my "junk" hardwoods for the same price as premium hardwood, (80 a face cord). Most campers don't know, and don't really care. I don't lie to them, I tell them what kind of wood it is, if they ask, or will give them better wood if they ask, but most campers don't know and don't care. In the summer it doesn't get dark until 830-9pm and most people just want a 2 hour fire anyways, heat content doesn't matter. I sell 1/4 face cords (4ftx2ftx16") for 20 bucks and most people who pay 6-8 dollars for a bundle at a gas station love it. If you can get rid of it that way, and still charge a good price for it, that would be the way to go.


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## CUCV (Dec 2, 2010)

jdman, I plan to work on the campground market in the future but don't plan on it for two years. I have a friend who sells tons of pine into campgrounds. Kinda funny I actually got a call for a couple cord of pine. Since I have giving my parents a 5 year supply of pine, I was happy to sell the gentleman some of what I gave my parents.


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## rwbinbc (Dec 2, 2010)

I sell poplar to a guy that sells it at a state park by Grand Haven, He buys cords of poplar, pine and other woods. My price to him is $75 per cord in rounds. I have a large supply of softer wood tops to sell so its more of a side job deal. I would mix it in with the better wood but not more than 10%. I dont even sell soft maple as hardwood. I also have a large pile of birch that I wouldn't say was hardwood But I slowly mix it in.


$75 a cord yeah, when He buys 50 plus cord a year yeah, He will get a good price.


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 2, 2010)

CUCV said:


> So should I ask for a discount on what I paid?



I would say you are at least partly responsible because, technically, he is living up to his end of the bargain by selling you "mixed hardwoods". You need to ask specific questions about what kind of wood you'll be getting when it is described this way. If the seller is dodging those questions, that should be a small red flag for you as a buyer. 

If it was described as mixed hardwoods, and you've gotten 12 cords of oak and 4 of poplar so far, that's better than an average mix of every type. He might just be giving you whatever comes his way in a random fashion depending on the job. Now, if everything else you get is poplar as well, then you'd have a bit more of a beef. I'd let the situation play out a bit more before demanding money back. Remember, the poplar isn't useless, it's just not as good.


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## deeker (Dec 2, 2010)

We sell cottonwood/poplar here for firewood. Burns quick and hot, with very little ash. Works great for a starter for the harder to light woods.

Also put it on the sawmill for trailer decking. Very good and flexible.

Makes great siding for sheds and barns. Just waterproof it on the bottom or keep it above the ground/snow.


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## woodbooga (Dec 2, 2010)

Were I a customer of yours, I would expect a small amount of poplar if what I bought was mixed hardwood - so long as the dominant species were of the oak, maple, and ash varieties.

But, boy, mixing the amount you have into your current stock of good hardwood... At a ratio I'd consider acceptable, well, most of your popple would go to rot before you could unload it in dribs and drabs.

I like the discount idea as a way to unload. Especially if you can keep it seasoned and dry come Feb & March when the poor planners start to run low. Advertise as bone dry, ready to burn poplar. A cord of dry seasoned popple will put out exponentially more heat than a shot of oak that's got icicles growing in it from the moisture and the cold. 

Might want to give a call over to Pentuckaway Park and some other campgrounds to see if there's a market for camp wood for next summer. You're not exactly in a vacation destination area like I am up on Winnipesaukee, but I'd still investigate the campwood/firepit wood option.

Also, if it's ion log length, see if there's someone that'll mill it. Sure poplar doesn't have much of a grain figure. But it takes paint better than most other woods and there's a moderate demand for it for interior finish work.

Not sure if these are solutions, but these are a few avenues I'd be considering were I in your position.


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## banshee67 (Dec 2, 2010)

yes, i sold some last week.. to a regular customer. i told him i had a trailer full of it to get rid of(unsplit), and gave him a really good deal on it. i explained to him it was one of the worst hardwoods you could get first, he still said hed take it for the price i offered though.

most firewood around here is sold as "mixed hardwoods" or "100% oak" , "100% locust" etc ... so you have to expect to get a little bit of poplar in the mixed hardwood priced loads i guess, i would assume everyone is doing it unless they list the species in their mixes, but still.. id still expect some poplar.
i guess the amount per cord, if any, depends on the person selling it. one persons worst species in their mixed hardwood cords might be silver maple, the next guys best species in his mixed cords might be silver maple, with the majority being sassafras and poplar.. so i guess it all depends
of all the "mixed hardwood" cords ive sold, id say more than half of them had a tiny bit of poplar, maybe a couple rounds worth of splits per cord, the black locust and oak make up for it though


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## CUCV (Dec 2, 2010)

In this neck of the woods I have never in my whole life ever talked to anyone who considered Poplar as a "Hardwood." I feel like he has me on a technicality, its a soft hardwood not a hard hardwood. I paid alot more than $75 per cord.


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## banshee67 (Dec 2, 2010)

rwbinbc said:


> I also have a large pile of birch that I wouldn't say was hardwood But I slowly mix it in.



cant forget black birch though, its excellent firewood, very high in btus!
and cant beat the smell as far as in concerned


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## banshee67 (Dec 2, 2010)

CUCV said:


> In this neck of the woods I have never in my whole life ever talked to anyone who considered Poplar as a "Hardwood." I feel like he has me on a technicality,



technically, he has you as a technicality 
technically it IS a hardwood.. but about as ####ty as they come

at the very least, it was deceiving
you dont start out selling someone a bunch of oak as "mixed hardwood" then change to poplar.. common sense would dictate he should ask/tell the customer first before delivering, and some sort of price break would definitely bein order


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## D&B Mack (Dec 2, 2010)

I personally can't stand poplar to burn for heat. I wrap that stuff up in shrink wrap and sell it. Those buyers could care less.


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## yooper (Dec 3, 2010)

If I bought a load of "hard wood" here and was expecting "hard wood" and got a load of wood with even 25% popple I would wait for the coldest night of the year and sneak over to your house on a -35 night and toss a hunk through your bedroom window at about 1 in the morning to show how well it heats up the room☺


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## Junkrunner (Dec 3, 2010)

I've had this explained to me several times. It's a "softwood" when green, and a "hardwood" when seasoned. That's what all the ole timers tell me, anyways. 

I'd just let them know what they're gettin. 

People who count BTU's, pieces of wood and how much ash the get. Have WAY, WAY to much time on their hands. Man, that **** really ****** me off. It's freakin FIRE wood, just shut-up and burn it.:chainsawguy:


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 3, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> I like the discount idea as a way to unload. Especially if you can keep it seasoned and dry come Feb & March when the poor planners start to run low. Advertise as bone dry, ready to burn poplar. A cord of dry seasoned popple will put out exponentially more heat than a shot of oak that's got icicles growing in it from the moisture and the cold.



Best solution from my point of view

In Jan thru March customers looking for wood to save the heirloom dining table from the stove will gladly take any wood that is ready to burn. If you do go this route, at least around here, you would have to discount the price, but not as much as Sept. 

*Most important, if you value your customers and reputation, is to be honest.* If you're up front I've found most customers will not think poorly of you and go elsewhere. People get upset when they feel taken, this applies to everything, not just wood. In over 30 years in the firewood business I've found a good reputation for honesty is worth far more than a quick score.

There are a lot of hacks in my area that are selling real junk and misrepresenting it. Some actually are dropping off a first load of decent wood and then after pocketing the cash bring the crap on subsequent loads. 

Hope all works out for you.

Take Care


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## Mike PA (Dec 3, 2010)

Junkrunner said:


> I've had this explained to me several times. It's a "softwood" when green, and a "hardwood" when seasoned. That's what all the ole timers tell me, anyways.
> 
> I'd just let them know what they're gettin.
> 
> People who count BTU's, pieces of wood and how much ash the get. Have WAY, WAY to much time on their hands. Man, that **** really ****** me off. It's freakin FIRE wood, just shut-up and burn it.:chainsawguy:



Gotta disagree. If I'm paying for hardwood or mixed hardwood, I would not be happy to see poplar at 90% in the mix. That is a load of poplar mixed with other wood. This isn't about counting BTU's or ash. THis is a simple practical matter that poplar does not burn nearly as well as the true hardwoods. He is paying oak prices and getting poplar - doesn't sound like a fair deal to me.

While the seller was technically correct in calling it hardwood, no one in my area would consider this correct. You simply cannot sell a load of poplar around here for the same price as mixed hardwood or oak, hickory, etc.


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## blackdogon57 (Dec 3, 2010)

In this area if i sold poplar as mixed hardwood I would be out of business fast. Sure it is technically hardwood bit when compared to hard maple,ash,oak etc is inferior fuel wood. If I were you I would sell it as camp wood.


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## rpl (Dec 3, 2010)

Poplar is a deciduous tree. It loses it's leaves in the fall. That's what it has in common with hardwoods. You really could never honestly call it a hardwood.


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## 1harlowr (Dec 3, 2010)

Just finished a cord of poplar this week. Now I can move on to the real hardwoods as the temps are dropping. It does season quick and leaves almost no ash. 
Just be honest with the customers. I'd talk to your supplier before he drops off another load of poplar. Doubt he'll give you any money. If it was me the supplier would know I don't consider it a hardwood and don't expect any more of it. Make it clear this time what species you want. If logs are easy to come by, I'd also look around for someone else.
You shouldn't have a problem getting rid of the 4 cords in a month or two.


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## Pulp Friction (Dec 3, 2010)

Junkrunner said:


> .......People who count BTU's, pieces of wood and how much ash the get. Have WAY, WAY to much time on their hands. Man, that **** really ****** me off. It's freakin FIRE wood, just shut-up and burn it.:chainsawguy:




I don't know of anyone that would be happy about going to the pump and paying for high-test gasoline and getting a tank full of 87 octane regular.


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## banshee67 (Dec 3, 2010)

Pulp Friction said:


> I don't know of anyone that would be happy about going to the pump and paying for high-test gasoline and getting a tank full of 87 octane regular.



i bet it happens more than we think! 
my buddy offended a few places testing their gas for water content right at the pump lol


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 3, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> I would say you are at least partly responsible because, technically, he is living up to his end of the bargain by selling you "mixed hardwoods". You need to ask specific questions about what kind of wood you'll be getting when it is described this way. If the seller is dodging those questions, that should be a small red flag for you as a buyer.
> 
> If it was described as mixed hardwoods, and you've gotten 12 cords of oak and 4 of poplar so far, that's better than an average mix of every type. He might just be giving you whatever comes his way in a random fashion depending on the job. Now, if everything else you get is poplar as well, then you'd have a bit more of a beef. I'd let the situation play out a bit more before demanding money back. Remember, the poplar isn't useless, it's just not as good.





:agree2:


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## D&B Mack (Dec 3, 2010)

banshee67 said:


> i bet it happens more than we think!
> my buddy offended a few places testing their gas for water content right at the pump lol



I took samples from all the stations around me to find the "cleanest" gas. Didn't test onsite though.


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## blackdogon57 (Dec 3, 2010)

CUCV said:


> I've been selling firewood for close to 20 years now and never sold any poplar. I've cut tons of poplar and given it to family or burned it myself. 2 years ago I had my daughter and suffered many health issues that prevented me from cutting enough fiirewood for my customers the following year. With my next kiddo weeks away I thought I would be pro-active and buy in some green wood to ensure that I would have enough wood for my customers next year. So I found a guy who would give me a fair price on green wood and I have bought over 50 cord from him. The wood has been very nice and clean and a nice mix of hardwoods, in fact the first 12 cord where mostly red oak. I just got another load of 4 cord and found it to be over 90% poplar and was very disappointed. I called they guy and he said poplar is hardwood. After a bit of reading I did find that it is in fact a soft hardwood. I think If I sold 4 one cord loads to 4 of my customers with 90%+ poplar I would loose all 4 customers. What are your thoughts on how to deal with this situation?




If this guy sells a lot of firewood logs he knows he is sticking it to you by bringing a load of poplar. I bet just by calling him on it he won't pull a stunt like that again. If you let these guys drop loads that are no good for resale they will keep doing it. When i first started buying logs I got stuck with a few loads of junk wood because I didn't know any better.. I make it clear to new suppliers that if they show up with wood that it not the right size,species or quality then it stays on the truck.


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## Tofurkey (Dec 3, 2010)

They say more babies are born in September and October when poplar is the only wood available to burn. Burning wood isn't the only way to stay warm


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## Mike Van (Dec 3, 2010)

"technically this" and "technically that" is all BS. If any of you bought a cord of 200.00 wood and it was all or mostly poplar, you'd be some cranked about it. Especially in NH or any northern state. Load the stove with that at 10:00 PM, you better set your clock to do it again at 1:00. Call that dude up, tell him to pick that crap back up & return your money. All you that call poplar a hardwood, you'd be some pissed if I sold you a trailer deck sawn from it.


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## John R (Dec 3, 2010)

I put Poplar in the same category as pine, good wood to burn in the spring and fall, also good kindling.

I wouldn’t pay hardwood prices for it.


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## jerryw66 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes Poplar is a hardwood, but no firewood business with a conscience would sell it as hardwood firewood. Poplar and cottonwood are hardwoods, have had that argument a few times, but they are at the bottom of the heap when it comes to firewood.


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## Alan Smith (Dec 3, 2010)

jerryw66 said:


> Yes Poplar is a hardwood, but no firewood business with a conscience would sell it as hardwood firewood. Poplar and cottonwood are hardwoods, have had that argument a few times, but they are at the bottom of the heap when it comes to firewood.



Same here


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## DSS (Dec 3, 2010)

You couldn't sell popple in a load of hardwood around here. There would be a lynching.

They go bananas here if they see a stick of white birch. And you can't tell them that birch is hardwood, so popple would be out of the question.
 
Around here hardwood is rock maple.


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## CUCV (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the chat guys, it really has helped me reflect on the situation a bit. The first 12 cords where a test run to check quality, quantity and how clean it was. It was great. 

He flat out told me he sells dark hardwood like oak green and the white woods seasoned.

I'm being generous when I say 90% poplar, its really 99% poplar from what I can see. I saw a piece of red oak! 

I have burned tons of poplar myself and know its benefits and drawbacks well.

I'm always, always honest with my customers and have a good reputations, other firewood producers recommend me when they are out of wood and I have customers who used to sell much more firewood than me in there youth.

Bottom line right or wrong it was a poor business move on his part and would be a poor business move on my part to sell it without telling my customers what they are getting. I would have to sell it at a greatly reduced rate.

I'm pissed about it, which has caused me to look for another source. I have found another source that will give me 100% red oak and will charge me 10% less without any negotiating. I'm getting a load on Sunday.


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## CUCV (Dec 3, 2010)

I returned 6 new customer calls for firewood tonight. Every single one asked what types and % of each kind of wood they would expect. Poplar just doesn't fly in this area.


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## Hlakegollum (Dec 3, 2010)

banshee67 said:


> cant forget black birch though, its excellent firewood, very high in btus!
> and cant beat the smell as far as in concerned



Black birch is fine firewood!


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 3, 2010)

CUCV said:


> Thanks for the chat guys, it really has helped me reflect on the situation a bit. The first 12 cords where a test run to check quality, quantity and how clean it was. It was great.
> 
> He flat out told me he sells dark hardwood like oak green and the white woods seasoned.
> 
> ...



So just to be clear, 'cuz I've been trying to figure out the entire thread just what the original agreement was, you haven't yet paid for the "50 cords"? You paid as each load was delivered? The original post said you bought 50 cords, so I think many assumed you'd already paid.


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 3, 2010)

CUCV said:


> Every single one asked what types and % of each kind of wood they would expect.



You know, that sounds like a great way to buy firewood....




Hlakegollum said:


> Black birch is fine firewood!



It ain't just fine, it's _sweet_..... : )


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## CUCV (Dec 3, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> You know, that sounds like a great way to buy firewood....
> 
> LOL I guess I'm green when it comes to buying wood, just good at selling it.
> 
> ...


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 3, 2010)

In colder climates poplar is very slow growing and denser than in more warmer climates.
I cut some dead poplar today and it has lotsa heat, in fact I had to shut the stove completely down to keep it comfortable and it's -20 here.
They say poplar leaves lottsa ash though.
Wouldn't a ton of poplar have as much heat as a ton of oak?
John


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## CUCV (Dec 3, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> In colder climates poplar is very slow growing and denser than in more warmer climates.
> I cut some dead poplar today and it has lotsa heat, in fact I had to shut the stove completely down to keep it comfortable and it's -20 here.
> They say poplar leaves lottsa ash though.
> Wouldn't a ton of poplar have as much heat as a ton of oak?
> John



If we only sold by the ton!


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 3, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> In colder climates poplar is very slow growing and denser than in more warmer climates.



Along that line, I've noticed that branches from mature yellow poplar trees are much denser than a similar sized sapling, which are equal to feathers when dried out. I thought about looking it up, but it's just poplar after all.

I've been known to be heard saying "_The only good poplar, is a DEAD poplar!_" as I make the felling cut.



Yukonsawman said:


> I cut some dead poplar today and it has lotsa heat, in fact I had to shut the stove completely down to keep it comfortable and it's -20 here.


 It does burn hot, just not as long. I'd think it would be relatively decent up that far.


Yukonsawman said:


> They say poplar leaves lottsa ash though.



I've been wondering why that's so important to some people. Are there now ash disposal fees!?! 


Yukonsawman said:


> Wouldn't a ton of poplar have as much heat as a ton of oak?
> John



Yep, if dried out. All wood same per lb.


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## woodbooga (Dec 3, 2010)

CUCV said:


> If we only sold by the ton!



Unfortunate thing is you bought that popple green. Were you to have paid by weight, a lot of your investment would have evaporated in the seasoning.

But yes, a good general rule is that all species contain about the same heat content per pound. Just brought in 2 good armloads. Oak for tonight. Heavy. A comparable volume of white pine for tomorrow morning's refire. Nuffin weight wise.


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## woodbooga (Dec 3, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> I've been wondering why that's so important to some people. Are there now ash disposal fees!?!



Never much understood this either. Emptying out the ash bucket more often adds to the work involved...but I consider the ash to be a useful byproduct and use it to fertilize the garden and the lawn.


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 3, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> Along that line, I've noticed that branches from mature yellow poplar trees are much denser than a similar sized sapling, which are equal to feathers when dried out. I thought about looking it up, but it's just poplar after all.
> 
> I've been known to be heard saying "_The only good poplar, is a DEAD poplar!_" as I make the felling cut.
> 
> ...




Wow, it sure is gopher wood, was wondering why it was getting cold in here, looked in the stove and just a bunch of coals!
Sure is a fast heat though. I guess the more ashes the more the heat is held, but also the less wood you can fit in the firebox.
All in all I don't mind the poplar as all else we got up here is pine a spruce.
It all has alot to due with the burning appliance as well.

Makes ya wonder why the coldest climates have the least BTU wood and vice versa.
It's all about a global warming that used to be a few million years ago,
John


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 3, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> Never much understood this either. Emptying out the ash bucket more often adds to the work involved...but I consider the ash to be a useful byproduct and use it to fertilize the garden and the lawn.


 There's only two things I hate about ash removal;
1: the stove can't be going, so ya hafta wait for a warmer day.
2: The dust goes everywhere. A shop vac may be in order, but will it suck up spikes and tin cans? lol
John


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## woodbooga (Dec 3, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Makes ya wonder why the coldest climates have the least BTU wood and vice versa.



LOL! It's like 60° in Virginia and they're up to their eyeballs in hickory and white oak. You poor folks are 50° below freezing and have popple and evergreens.

This to me is proof positive of the existence of God. And that furthermore he has a sense of humor.


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 3, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> Never much understood this either. Emptying out the ash bucket more often adds to the work involved...but I consider the ash to be a useful byproduct and use it to fertilize the garden and the lawn.



Somehow when I think about the work involved, emptying out the ash bucket doesn't seem near the top of the list in degree of difficulty, but that's just me - Mr. Fit


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## branchbuzzer (Dec 3, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> LOL! It's like 60° in Virginia and they're up to their eyeballs in hickory and white oak. You poor folks are 50° below freezing and have popple and evergreens.
> 
> This to me is proof positive of the existence of God. And that furthermore he has a sense of humor.



... and when the woodburners near the Artic Circle die, they come down here to Hardwood Heaven. When us southern sinners die, we go up there and get nothing but rotted pines.


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## woodbooga (Dec 3, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> There's only two things I hate about ash removal;
> 1: the stove can't be going, so ya hafta wait for a warmer day.
> 2: The dust goes everywhere. A shop vac may be in order, but will it suck up spikes and tin cans? lol
> John



We heat and cook on a 100 year-old Crawford cookstove that's got shaker grates. If I'm down to coals, I can usuallygive the ash the shakedown and keep the bigger coals from falling below with little difficulty. Then it's just a matter of shoveling them from below into a bucket.

I had a small box stove at camp a long while back. No grates or ash pan - so I hear ya!


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 3, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> We heat and cook on a 100 year-old Crawford cookstove that's got shaker grates. If I'm down to coals, I can usuallygive the ash the shakedown and keep the bigger coals from falling below with little difficulty. Then it's just a matter of shoveling them from below into a bucket.
> 
> I had a small box stove at camp a long while back. No grates or ash pan - so I hear ya!


 I was gonna mention that about popple and cook stoves. There's probably not much better wood than that or pine for a fast hot fire when cut into kindling.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 3, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> ... and when the woodburners near the Artic Circle die, they come down here to Hardwood Heaven. When us southern sinners die, we go up there and get nothing but rotted pines.



We better copyright that theory right here and right now, or David Atinborough
or David Suzuki will me stealing the theory about evolutionary global warming.
Maybe the dinosaurs died because they couldn't run fast enough from Alaska to Georgia. Lol
John


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## laser (Dec 4, 2010)

The thing I don't like about yellow poplar is, even though it burns hot, it never leaves me a good bed of coals. All I get is ash...so it's not just that there's a lot of ash to clean up (not usually that big of a deal), it's that you have to start a fire almost from scratch. 

I'll mix poplar in with oak and hickory, but I seldom burn with just poplar. I'll come back to a cold stove if I'm not careful.

But using a hatchet on a split, I can get some amazing kindling/tender. I think poplar is a wood that you must have, but it's a special use wood, not something you rely on...unless you have a *lot* of it.


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## logbutcher (Dec 4, 2010)

CUCV said:


> I've been selling firewood for close to 20 years now and never sold any poplar. I've cut tons of poplar and given it to family or burned it myself. 2 years ago I had my daughter and suffered many health issues that prevented me from cutting enough fiirewood for my customers the following year. With my next kiddo weeks away I thought I would be pro-active and buy in some green wood to ensure that I would have enough wood for my customers next year. So I found a guy who would give me a fair price on green wood and I have bought over 50 cord from him. The wood has been very nice and clean and a nice mix of hardwoods, in fact the first 12 cord where mostly red oak. I just got another load of 4 cord and found it to be over 90% poplar and was very disappointed. I called they guy and he said poplar is hardwood. After a bit of reading I did find that it is in fact a soft hardwood. I think If I sold 4 one cord loads to 4 of my customers with 90%+ poplar I would loose all 4 customers. What are your thoughts on how to deal with this situation?



This is not the West. In our part of the states, Poplar/Cottonwood/Aspen/Popple is considered junk. Lower BTU than some "softwoods". Tell the seller to take it back; he should know better. Don't lose customers.


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## CUCV (Dec 5, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> This is not the West. In our part of the states, Poplar/Cottonwood/Aspen/Popple is considered junk. Lower BTU than some "softwoods". Tell the seller to take it back; he should know better. Don't lose customers.



I left the guy a message to call me... but no reply...


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## BPS. LLC (Dec 5, 2010)

A few years ago, I had a few poplar logs mixed in with a load. I burned them myself, since the consenus of my customers that poplar was undesirable. When I started, I sold "mixed hardwood" and several customers asked whether or not there was poplar in the mix. They did not want it, so I never added it.

Almost every customer has given me some sort of horror story of their prior firewood buying experiences, and they are very picky and know most of the "tricks of the trade".


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 5, 2010)

BPS said:


> Almost every customer has given me some sort of horror story of their prior firewood buying experiences, and they are very picky and know most of the "tricks of the trade".



Amen to that

It seems unless it's their first season burning, every new customer certainly has war stories of other suppliers to tell.

'course they're not interested in hearing about life on the other side of the fence, but that topic's been beaten to death in other threads.

Take Care


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## banshee67 (Dec 5, 2010)

Swamp Yankee said:


> It seems unless it's their first season burning, every new customer certainly has war stories of other suppliers to tell.
> 
> 'course they're not interested in hearing about life on the other side of the fence, but that topic's been beaten to death in other threads.



yep it seems like every person ive ever sold wood to, the first time i meet them, they have a big horror story to tell me about the last guy who sold them wood..
.. yet, like you said, if we started rambling off about all the horrible customers we have had in the past, everytime we met a new customers, WE would be the crazy ones.. they want to tell everyone how to be a good "firewood vendor".. but i doubt they would want to hear how to be a good customer 
.. that said. i refused to sell wood to a cop this year,who took 6 weeks to pay me last year.. he ignored multiple emails and voicemails after taking over a month to mail a check, lied about when the check was sent like i wouldnt read date on envelope etc etc. if i told every new customer that story theyd think i was a lunatic, yet they all tell me about how some yahoo sold them pine 2 years ago.. why do i care? i have a trailer full of oak locust cherry and ash...stop talking and let me unload:crazy1:


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## woodbooga (Dec 5, 2010)

Here's a lead for the OP right in his hometown. Not clear from the post if the trees are standing or on the ground.

If you contact the poster, make sure that none of the hardwood trees are popple!

http://nh.craigslist.org/mat/2087968145.html


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 5, 2010)

Poplar is much under rated as a building product too.
Looking back in history, poplar was used extensively by our fore fathers and the pioneers who settled this great continent.
Poplar has great insulating properties and easy to work with.
Although it rots rather fast, if kept dry it will last a very long time.
John


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## DSS (Dec 5, 2010)

Saw this on a bulletin board this morning...guy selling wood..

Hardwood.......$175

White birch.....$165

Juniper...........$155

Softwood........$145

Poplar............$130

This is per cord, blocked. $20 extra split.


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## burroak (Dec 5, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Poplar is much under rated as a building product too.
> Looking back in history, poplar was used extensively by our fore fathers and the pioneers who settled this great continent.
> Poplar has great insulating properties and easy to work with.
> Although it rots rather fast, if kept dry it will last a very long time.
> John



Alot of people say poplar rots extremely fast, but it doesn't if you keep it dry. Alot of the old buildings used poplar as siding, and many of the log cabins used poplar for the logs. There are a few historical cabins nearby me, and they are all made out of hand-hewn poplar logs. It wil last a long time if you keep it dry.


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## makomakoman (Dec 5, 2010)

I have been noticing more and more sellers trying to put Poplar in their loads up here. 

Poplar is good for pulpwood. 

you got ####ed..sorry to hear that.


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## CUCV (Dec 5, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> Here's a lead for the OP right in his hometown. Not clear from the post if the trees are standing or on the ground.
> 
> If you contact the poster, make sure that none of the hardwood trees are popple!
> 
> http://nh.craigslist.org/mat/2087968145.html




I've seen that post up for a while, I suspect its trees over the house or powerlines. I can do it... but not for free. However, I should give them a call and check it out.


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## Buckethead (Dec 6, 2010)

I live in western Mass. and we sell about 20 cord of "mixed hardwood" a year. 
We get our wood from a buddy of ours that runs a tree service so the species depends on the job. Typically, we see a lot of Maple and Oak with some Elm, Ash and occasionally some Poplar and Black Birch.

We have included poplar in our deliveries but, it is always less than 5% of the load and we never deliver any wood that we wouldn't (and do) burn ourselves. Here in the northeast, we would never advertise "hardwood" and deliver just poplar. I'm pretty sure it's grounds for lynching in N.H.


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## Taxmantoo (Dec 6, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Wow, it sure is gopher wood,



My dad always called poplar 'gopher' or maybe 'go-fer' wood. 
Cottonwood, my mom called that Pampers wood. Heated better than gopher wood, but she didn't like to smell it in the house.


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## Jon E (Dec 6, 2010)

It's equivalent to pine in my eyes, but I'd rather burn pine as pine smells better.


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## logbutcher (Dec 6, 2010)

Jon E said:


> It's equivalent to pine in my eyes, but I'd rather burn pine as pine smells better.



Pine is better, near the same BTUs, season faster, weighs less when cut.
This is for northeastern Poplar; more northern stuff grows slower, denser, may have more BTUs than our junque Poplar in Maine.

BTW: Popple ( as it's called here) is used by some Amerindian craftsmen for carving. Soft when green and wet, it hardens after awhile. Search "totem poles" for example.


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## CTYank (Dec 6, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> How did he advertise the wood? If advertised and sold as "mixed hardwood", I think any hardwood is fair game, as "mixed hardwood" is a very broad definition.



Not necessarily fair game. In NY (see http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/WM/WMwood.html) "Wood from conifers (pines), aspen, poplar, basswood, butternut, willow, and grey or paper birch may not be advertised as hardwood."

Who says gummint regulation is bad? (Maybe the crooks, con-men, robber-barons and other miscreants?)


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 6, 2010)

burroak said:


> He's right - poplar is a hardwood, same as cottonwood.
> 
> I have a ton of poplar I will be selling next year. However, it will be at a 20% price reduction compared to what I charge for regular hardwoods. Should be ok to sell it, just drop the price and make sure they know what they are getting before you deliver.


+1 but not quite. Poplar, cottonwood, and basswood are all hardwoods and not conifers, such as pine, fir, and cedar. 

Many people enjoy burning "softer" or "lighter" hardwoods. They light fast, are easy to load, and they help burn the denser woods such as oak, locust, and mulberry. I offer them together in a mixed hardwood sale and do not discount them. Many of my customers request them because they are so easy to light and burn, especially in a fireplace. They also do not throw sparks.

One customer told me, "If I had to choose between a ton of oak or a ton of cottonwood, I'd take the cottonwood any day."


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## Hillbilly3995 (Dec 6, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> I would say you are at least partly responsible because, technically, he is living up to his end of the bargain by selling you "mixed hardwoods". You need to ask specific questions about what kind of wood you'll be getting when it is described this way. If the seller is dodging those questions, that should be a small red flag for you as a buyer.
> 
> If it was described as mixed hardwoods, and you've gotten 12 cords of oak and 4 of poplar so far, that's better than an average mix of every type. He might just be giving you whatever comes his way in a random fashion depending on the job. Now, if everything else you get is poplar as well, then you'd have a bit more of a beef. I'd let the situation play out a bit more before demanding money back. Remember, the poplar isn't useless, it's just not as good.







deeker said:


> We sell cottonwood/poplar here for firewood. Burns quick and hot, with very little ash. Works great for a starter for the harder to light woods.
> 
> Also put it on the sawmill for trailer decking. Very good and flexible.
> 
> Makes great siding for sheds and barns. Just waterproof it on the bottom or keep it above the ground/snow.



Boths posts spot on, couldn't said it better myself. Rep for you both in the AM.


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## CUCV (Dec 7, 2010)

Wood Doctor said:


> +1 but not quite. Poplar, cottonwood, and basswood are all hardwoods and not conifers, such as pine, fir, and cedar.
> 
> Many people enjoy burning "softer" or "lighter" hardwoods. They light fast, are easy to load, and they help burn the denser woods such as oak, locust, and mulberry. I offer them together in a mixed hardwood sale and do not discount them. Many of my customers request them because they are so easy to light and burn, especially in a fireplace. They also do not throw sparks.
> 
> One customer told me, "If I had to choose between a ton of oak or a ton of cottonwood, I'd take the cottonwood any day."



Just curious, would you sell over 50% poplar loads to all your customers and not expect complaints? Reviewing posts it looks like there are different opinions depending on region.


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 8, 2010)

*Good Post.*



CUCV said:


> Just curious, would you sell over 50% poplar loads to all your customers and not expect complaints? Reviewing posts it looks like there are different opinions depending on region.


Only if sold for campfires in bundles or perhaps for fireplaces--not for wood stoves. When sold for wood stoves, people like the denser hardwoods. Then, I sell that by the truckload and include more dense hardwoods in the mixture. That's because most wood stove people use the wood for heating the building. Fireplace burners want lots of flames and wood that is easy to light.

Regardless, if ALL of the wood is really dense, such as oak and locust, people usually have trouble burning it and often ask that I bring more elm and cottonwood on the next delivery.


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