# Wiseco piston update from Baileys



## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

The first ones are in. It's time for some testing. As you may know, I don't get to run my saws a lot. Many of you do. What I'm looking for are individuals that are *high hour volume users* that could run these new pistons for some durability testing. What would happen, is you would send your saw to me for installation. I will be doing fit and finish evaluation on these piston. The piston is free to you. You only pay me $50 labor and shipping both ways. 

I need one each of the following saws. 372, 044/440, 046/460, or 066/660. They are all standard bore. These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features. However, they are forged and should be more durable. I'm only interested in saws that are *currently in perfect running condition*. No exceptions. I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal. Please be honest with me.

If you fit this description and are interested, please send me a PM. At the current time, I am only looking for one of each model.


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## wi50 (Feb 4, 2010)

When approxamatly will these pistons be available for purchase? 

Reason being I've got some 066-660 projects and sparked the idea after seing the Dolmar 166 thread where leeha had Wisco make pistons.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

wi50 said:


> When approxamatly will these pistons be available for purchase?



I do not know the answer to that.


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## 04ultra (Feb 4, 2010)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=124317





.


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## wi50 (Feb 4, 2010)

great, I was going to place anorder with them yesterday and didn't get to it, so......as luck would have it, I'll do it today.


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## jbighump (Feb 4, 2010)

i cant wait to see how these hold up


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 4, 2010)

what do you consider high use?


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## Chaz1 (Feb 4, 2010)

Wiseco makes extremely fine pistons.


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 4, 2010)

will you put a 066 piston in my 288xp?
:spam: :monkey:


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## tdi-rick (Feb 4, 2010)

Brad, be sure to get the digi scale out and compare to OE when the pistons arrive


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

FELLNORTH said:


> what do you consider high use?


How much do you use yours? What model?



tdi-rick said:


> Brad, be sure to get the digi scale out and compare to OE when the pistons arrive



Absolutely.


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 4, 2010)

i have an 046 but at the momment it has a big bore kit, i have the oem cylinder but its kinda yuck.... ill try and post pics.
i use my saws only 1 day a week from november to april and am thinking of doing some milling with it.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

FELLNORTH said:


> i have an 046 but at the momment it has a big bore kit, i have the oem cylinder but its kinda yuck.... ill try and post pics.
> i use my saws only 1 day a week from november to april and am thinking of doing some milling with it.



It would have to have a clean OEM jug on it.


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## thomas72 (Feb 4, 2010)

More than likely the pistons will be a better quality or as good quality, but probably will be heaver. It is harder to cut down on weight on a forged piston than it is on a cast piston unless you make a lot of changes to the design. Also, how are the specs going to work out on the piston in relation to cylinder wall / piston clearance.


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 4, 2010)

sorry but thats not the case, a piece of bearing grooved the bore between the lower and upper transfers, and there is a scretch above that where the ring broke
hope you fing the saws you need, shouldnt be too hard


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## cpr (Feb 4, 2010)

FELLNORTH said:


> will you put a 066 piston in my 288xp?
> :spam: :monkey:



I've been exploring that swap, too. May put it off until these are ready now.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

FELLNORTH said:


> hope you fing the saws you need, shouldnt be too hard



I figured my inbox would have filled up by now. I've actually not received any requrests. Does that mean that no one here uses their saws very much, lol?


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

cpr said:


> I've been exploring that swap, too. May put it off until these are ready now.



What are you waiting for? They're already in stock. LINK


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## 04ultra (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I figured my inbox would have filled up by now. I've actually not received any requrests. Does that mean that no one here uses their saws very much, lol?



If they ship and your labor, its almost as cheap to do it them selves ....


.


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 4, 2010)

04ultra said:


> If they ship and your labor, its almost as cheap to do it them selves ....
> 
> 
> .



i think youre right, especially for a canuck like myself


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## cpr (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What are you waiting for? They're already in stock. LINK



Whoa, bonus. I assumed these were pre-production pieces. NICE!!!


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

04ultra said:


> If they ship and your labor, its almost as cheap to do it them selves ....
> 
> 
> .



That's fine too. But don't you want to see pictures out of my new camera?


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## FELLNORTH (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What are you waiting for? They're already in stock. LINK



price is alittle steep for a test piston to throw on the lathe and turn down.... ill start with a meteor i think.


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## 04ultra (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> That's fine too. But don't you want to see pictures out of my new camera?



No..........Just a recipt for work completed..................






.


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## wi50 (Feb 4, 2010)

I've got weights recorded from early and late OEM, Meteor, etc pistons for the 066. Before and after any porting and machine work. I'm going to get one of these Wisco pistons ordered now, but me think's it's going to be heavy.... we'll see. I was guessing $125 for a price, and I see it's pretty close to that. Now I wonder about the wrist pin and clips?


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## jd548esco72 (Feb 4, 2010)

i would have considered this but my two 044 to 460 conversions run so well that i hate to attempt improving a perfectly good saw. 

i don't know if i qualify for "hard use" anymore. back in the day around 5 to 16 chords of wood a working day.

now days i cut around six to ten chords a week when i am cutting firewood. i cut firewood around four to five months a year.


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## imanoob (Feb 4, 2010)

I don't know if this applies with saws so much, but as a general rule with Wiseco's in sleds you have to let them warm up much longer than a stock piston. Because they are forged and not cast they expand faster than the cylinder. If you start it up and don't let it warm up properly the piston has a much higher chance of cold seizing. 

Just thought I'd throw that out there


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## Arrowhead (Feb 4, 2010)

04ultra said:


> If they ship and your labor, its almost as cheap to do it them selves ....
> 
> 
> .


:agree2:
Thats the problem, I considered my 044 but with labor and shipping I could do an oem one myself. I think its a fair deal for someone that can not do it themselves. Im sure someone will bite.


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## mtngun (Feb 4, 2010)

I run my 066 hard (milling), but my OEM jug has a couple of flakes in the plating and just got a newbie woods port, so it doesn't meet your qualifications. Plus, I need a pop-up.

I appreciate Bailey's giving us more piston options, but personally I'm not attracted to a forged piston. In the automotive world, forged pistons are normally used for extremely high compression or extreme RPMs. At factory RPMs and lame factory compression ratios, I don't see what a forged piston is going to do for you. It's still going to melt if you get an air leak or bad gas.

What I would like to see offered for the 066/660, and this deserves another thread, is a Woodland Pro cast pop-up piston with slightly wider skirts. That way Joe Average could put a pop-up in his saw without having to machine anything. The wider skirts would provide more wiggle room for wider ports.

Now back to Brad's Wiseco thread .........


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## 04ultra (Feb 4, 2010)

Arrowhead said:


> :agree2:
> Thats the problem, I considered my 044 but with labor and shipping I could do an oem one myself. I think its a fair deal for someone that can not do it themselves. Im sure someone will bite.



Yes for the guy that can drive a couple miles and have it done its a good deal........




.


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## Arrowhead (Feb 4, 2010)

Hmmmmm.......Mabey with a little mild porting........:monkey: LoL


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The first ones are in. It's time for some testing. As you may know, I don't get to run my saws a lot. Many of you do. What I'm looking for are individuals that are *high hour volume users* that could run these new pistons for some durability testing. What would happen, is you would send your saw to me for installation. I will be doing fit and finish evaluation on these piston. The piston is free to you. You only pay me $50 labor and shipping both ways.
> 
> I need one each of the following saws. 372, 044/440, 046/460, or 066/660. They are all standard bore. These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features. However, they are forged and should be more durable. I'm only interested in saws that are *currently in perfect running condition*. No exceptions. I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal. Please be honest with me.
> 
> If you fit this description and are interested, please send me a PM. At the current time, I am only looking for one of each model.



Brad apparently AS has caused you to loose your mind. That is about the most insane offer I've ever seen on AS. Brad how about you pay for the use of these saws since your the one that needs them for testing, your deal is azz backwards. I will give ya this, thats the best swindle out in the open I think I've ever seen,LOL


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## wooddog (Feb 4, 2010)

Here I always thought anyone in the know about chainsaws knew that wiseco made chainsaw pistons. Old news .  

Sir I do wonder about the weight of oem compared to the wiseco and how the wrist pins weigh in comparison to each other too.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Brad apparently AS has caused you to loose your mind. That is about the most insane offer I've ever seen on AS. Brad how about you pay for the use of these saws since your the one that needs them for testing, your deal is azz backwards. I will give ya this, thats the best swindle out in the open I think I've ever seen,LOL



How do you figure? I don't stand to benefit or loose if these pistons sink or swim. Remember, it's not me that wants these tested. I'm just offering my service to help get them tested. I'm not being paid by Baileys to do this. I'm just not going to install them for free on someone elses saw. That's all.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> How do you figure? I don't stand to benefit or loose if these pistons sink or swim. Remember, it's not me that wants these tested. I'm just offering my service to help get them tested. I'm not being paid by Baileys to do this. I'm just not going to install them for free on someone elses saw. That's all.



Brad apparently you must think people are stupid. Why isn't your piston supplier supplying the saws and paying you, any idea???


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## spike60 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> How do you figure? I don't stand to benefit or loose if these pistons sink or swim. Remember, it's not me that wants these tested. I'm just offering my service to help get them tested. I'm not being paid by Baileys to do this. I'm just not going to install them for free on someone elses saw. That's all.




Yeah, but if the "test" doesn't go so good, then who's on the hook for the formerly "perfect running condition" cylinder that the piston just ruined?


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Brad apparently you must think people are stupid. Why isn't your piston supplier supplying the saws and paying you, any idea???



That easy to figure out Tom. Because I'm free. But I'm fine with that. I keep the parts I test for them, but they're not paying me for my services. That's good enough for a hobbiest like me. So what's your point?


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## 04ultra (Feb 4, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Yeah, but if the "test" doesn't go so good, then who's on the hook for the formerly "perfect running condition" cylinder that the piston just ruined?



:agree2::agree2:


Is Brad going too fix it for free and pay shipping both ways ....Thats why I asked about a recipt .....




.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Yeah, but if the "test" doesn't go so good, then who's on the hook for the formerly "perfect running condition" cylinder that the piston just ruined?



That would certainly be a concern. Admittedly, I hadn't thought of that, and should have. All I can say, is that Baileys has always stood by their product in the past. I don't expect that to change now.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> That easy to figure out Tom. Because I'm free. But I'm fine with that. I keep the parts I test for them, but they're not paying me for my services. That's good enough for a hobbiest like me. So what's your point?



My point is simple, you want someone else to supply the saws, ones in perfect running condition so you can play with Baileys pistons and you want the saw supplier to pay you to support your hobby, ha, you can't be serious. Why don't you use your own saws for that. Also by chance you fry someones saw are you buying a new OEM kit and putting it back on for them,hmmmm. 

Brad, Baileys can play you for a fool but don't ask anyone to pay you because they won't..


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## wooddog (Feb 4, 2010)

$25 ship there $25 ship back, $50 labor install = $100 + down time on saw and taking chance in the shipping. 

Buy new piston for $129 and save the hassle. :monkey:

No way in :censored: I would ship a perfectly good saw to someone to install a piston just so they can see at my EXPENSE.  Can you see SUCKER on your foreheads people. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> My point is simple, you want someone else to supply the saws, ones in perfect running condition so you can play with Baileys pistons and you want the saw supplier to pay you to support your hobby, ha, you can't be serious. Why don't you use your own saws for that. Also by chance you fry someones saw are you buying a new OEM kit and putting it back on for them,hmmmm.
> 
> Brad, Baileys can play you for a fool but don't ask anyone to pay you because they won't..



That's not the way it is Tom. I thought someone might like to have a forged Wiseco piston in their saw. Plain and simple. No agenda. This wasn't a scheme for me to make money. If you, meaning anyone, isn't interested in having one of these put in your saw, then ignore the post. It really is that simple.

The only saw I have with a stock OEM bore of the models listed is a 460. I have no problem at all putting one these in it, and plan on doing so.


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## Arrowhead (Feb 4, 2010)

I MAY consider it, if Baileys gives me a $50 credit to cover your labor. It is a gamble any way.... I doubt it, but what if these pistons don't perform as well as an oem? Everybody knows oem pistons are proven winners. Are the rings thinner than oem, 1mm maybe?


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## spike60 (Feb 4, 2010)

Brad, it's really not a cool idea. 

First, the numbers don't really work too good. Two way shipping plus $50 to you means a more than $100 for the saw owner. 

But the problem is mostly because you need the test saws to be in near new condition. It's just not realistic for a guy to pay $100 to tear apart a $700 saw in perfect working order to take part in this type of test. Nobody is going to take that risk.

On the otherhand, if you wanted dead saws where you could clean up the cylinder, or if Baileys had a complete p&C kit that could be used, you'd have more saws than you could handle.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> That's not the way it is Tom. I thought someone might like to have a forged Wiseco piston in their saw. Plain and simple. No agenda. This wasn't a scheme for me to make money. If you, meaning anyone, isn't interested in having one of these put in your saw, then ignore the post. It really is that simple.
> 
> The only saw I have with a stock OEM bore of the models listed is a 460. I have no problem at all putting one these in it, and plan on doing so.



No scheme for money, whats the 50.00 about?? $50.00 for you to have your fun, I don't think so.

Brad why in the world would I or anyone want to send you a perfectly running 660 and pay you to tear it apart so you can test some piston. In return I get to keep the piston, and you want me to pay shipping too, man you gotta be kidding, what about the use of the saw Brad, does that account for anything? Is that Bailey piston really going to perform any better than the OEM piston you took out, not hardly and you know it.

You wanna pimp for Baileys you should ask them for a company car and yeah, maybe some testing saws. Hell don't they have chainsaws, why I think they do. Why I bet they could test those pistons themselves and cut you out altogether but hey how often can a company get a saleman for the price of a piston. Get real Brad, your not fooling anyone...


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## tdi-rick (Feb 4, 2010)

wi50 said:


> [snip]
> but me think's it's going to be heavy.... we'll see.
> [snip]



That's why I'd like to see some weights.

That was the stumbling block years ago with their kart pistons, they just weren't competitive with the OE Italian pistons in weight and when the engines we were running were spinning at 18,000RPM or so under load, it makes a difference.

It's different with Lee's 166 pistons, you can't get OE pistons anymore so it makes runners out of a lot of 166's that would've become paper weights or door stops.


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## AUSSIE1 (Feb 4, 2010)

Forged is denser so must be heavier unless they run thinner section.
Forged pistons used to have a higher expansion rate which to me would be an issue in a 2 stroke such as a chainsaw.
So many people don't give adequate warm up.
My old 350 Chevy used to rattle till warmed up, lol.
They brought out the hyperutectic piston to reduce these expansion rates.


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## Stihl088stock (Feb 4, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Yeah, but if the "test" doesn't go so good, then who's on the hook for the formerly "perfect running condition" cylinder that the piston just ruined?



Legally, the saw owner is on the hook. If someone's saw is ruined, that person can only be compensated for the value of the deficient part (the piston.) And said piston is FREE!!!

I'd be happy to try, but my MS660 isn't going to see any heavy use soon.

Hat's off to Brad for a great offer...


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Brad, it's really not a cool idea.
> 
> First, the numbers don't really work too good. Two way shipping plus $50 to you means a more than $100 for the saw owner.
> 
> ...



Now Tom, this is how a gentleman speaks. Spike's saying about the same thing as you, but is a lot less caustic And you know what, I think you're right Spike. Should have put a little more though into the liability aspect of this offer.

The saws don't need to be near new, just in perfect running condition. Maybe even one that's due for a new piston. I just don't want someone sending me their problem saw. Been there done that


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

Stihl088stock said:


> Legally, the saw owner is on the hook. If someone's saw is ruined, that person can only be compensated for the value of the deficient part (the piston.) And said piston is FREE!!!
> 
> I'd be happy to try, but my MS660 isn't going to see any heavy use soon.
> 
> Hat's off to Brad for a great offer...



Get that 660 in the mail man, surely you can't refuse a offer like that, your just the man he was fishing for,LOL


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Get that 660 in the mail man, surely you can't refuse a offer like that, your just the man he was fishing for,LOL



Are you going to make me start calling you names again?


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## Stihl088stock (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Get that 660 in the mail man, surely you can't refuse a offer like that, your just the man he was fishing for,LOL



If it needed a piston, I'd go for it! But, It's durn near new!

I see your point, I'd rather install it myself, run it for 6 month, then...??? well, how does the testing end???


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## Stumpys Customs (Feb 4, 2010)

It's not like brad is holding a gun to anybodys head. He just made an offer. If you don't like it, don't send him your saw. Plain and simple.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

04ultra said:


> If they ship and your labor, its almost as cheap to do it them selves ....
> 
> 
> .



Yep, its too expensive. Or I would send my 044 just because I know the quality of Wiseco. Used them in the mini sprints and my uncle still uses them in his sprint car.

I might contact Baileys and see if I can conduct my own "test".


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Now Tom, this is how a gentleman speaks. Spike's saying about the same thing as you, but is a lot less caustic And you know what, I think you're right Spike. Should have put a little more though into the liability aspect of this offer.
> 
> The saws don't need to be near new, just in perfect running condition. Maybe even one that's due for a new piston. I just don't want someone sending me their problem saw. Been there done that



Well Brad I personally see no need to talk to a swindler like a gentleman. You must have gull running out your hiny if you really think someone can't see through what your offering. Its ok though, continue fishing, Baileys found a sucker, I guess you can too, no hard feelings I hope, have a cold one,


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

Stihl088stock said:


> If it needed a piston, I'd go for it! But, It's durn near new!
> 
> I see your point, I'd rather install it myself, run it for 6 month, then...??? well, how does the testing end???



Testing, what testing. Testing, real testing requires about a 1000 hours of run time, lets see, 1000 divided by 40 hours a week, hmmmm should get the saw back in 25 weeks. So lets see, rental shops charge about 65-75.00 a day for the use of a saw so lets see, 65.00 a day x 5 is 325.00 a week times 25 weeks comes out to $8,125.00. Now who is getting a deal,LOLOL


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The first ones are in. It's time for some testing. As you may know, I don't get to run my saws a lot. Many of you do. What I'm looking for are individuals that are *high hour volume users* that could run these new pistons for some durability testing. What would happen, is you would send your saw to me for installation. I will be doing fit and finish evaluation on these piston. The piston is free to you. You only pay me $50 labor and shipping both ways.
> 
> I need one each of the following saws. 372, 044/440, 046/460, or 066/660. They are all standard bore. These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features. However, they are forged and should be more durable. I'm only interested in saws that are *currently in perfect running condition*. No exceptions. I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal. Please be honest with me.
> 
> If you fit this description and are interested, please send me a PM. At the current time, I am only looking for one of each model.



Something doesn't sound right here. Why can't Bailey's install the pistons themselves, they have a service department. Why don't they send them directly to the end user? No offense Brad, but I don't think you have any official chainsaw certification from Husqvarna or Stihl. Sending a "perfectly running" saw to a saw enthusiast doesn't sound on the up and up for a piston replacement.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Are you going to make me start calling you names again?



Brad you can call me anything you want but there is one thing you can't call me and thats wrong. You know and I know your offer is so bogus a child could see through it. Now proceed on with name calling, just don't holler "mods close this thread" when I open up on ya, ya hear me,LOLOL


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Brad you can call me anything you want but there is one thing you can't call me and thats wrong. You know and I know your offer is so bogus a child could see through it. Now proceed on with name calling, just don't holler "mods close this thread" when I open up on ya, ya hear me,LOLOL



Well I guess I am a little late to this party.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> Well I guess I am a little late to this party.



Have a seat ole boy, this one is gonna get ripe and fun,hehe


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

Brad I thought you werent doing saw work for a while anyways?


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## indiansprings (Feb 4, 2010)

From Bailey's perspective this is one of the most ludicrous methods in product testing I have ever come across. If Baileys truly want these tested in a manner that made sense, they would furnish three or four saws to logging companies in the PNW with the pistons installed and three or four with the factory oem setup to use as a baseline, ask the logging companies to log their hours to a pre-determined level and then have a mechanical engineer do a comparison on the baseline stock compared to the wiseco's. You do not have a home modder (no disrespect to Brad) do a true product analysis. A person would have to be out of there mind to participate in this. What's the report going to say looks good, what about all the technical and metallurgical aspects, good god, have to send your saw back for tear down and review, it's nuts.
Baileys has no clue their exposure on liability as well as Brad, as a buyer and former divisional and EVP for one of the largest outdoor suppliers in the US been down the product testing road thousands of times and this is far from how you conduct it. Sheer ignorance on Baileys part. Hell, we routinely paid 1500.00 to 2500.00 to have consumer test labs test every item sold as well as provided customers units free of charge to use and abuse and then pick them up to see if actual use paralleled the lab findings.
Someone's on the hook for a saw unless a release is signed, even though Baileys would probably make it good, Brad would be on the hook, IMHO and legal experience. Not a good idea!


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## Stihl088stock (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Testing, what testing. Testing, real testing requires about a 1000 hours of run time, lets see, 1000 divided by 40 hours a week, hmmmm should get the saw back in 25 weeks. So lets see, rental shops charge about 65-75.00 a day for the use of a saw so lets see, 65.00 a day x 5 is 325.00 a week times 25 weeks comes out to $8,125.00. Now who is getting a deal,LOLOL



I meant testing as in removing the piston to examine...


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

Tom, I take it you're bored tonight and have nothing else to do. You're blowing this so far out of proportion it's not funny. I have absolutely *nothing *in these except for the $50 I asked for to make it worth my time doing the piston swap. If you're just looking for a good tussle, which is pretty obvious, well, I'm not in the mood tonight. You'll have to settle that with Demi.:greenchainsaw:


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## cpr (Feb 4, 2010)

Wow.

Went to the kitchen for an hour to slap some Drake's battermix on pork chops and enjoy supper with the kids and I come back to find out I'm not the only one cookin'.

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## Stumpys Customs (Feb 4, 2010)

It's threads like this that give forums bad reputations. you guys need to quit stinkin up the place. I know most of it is in good fun but give Brad a break. To much negativity. Everybody needs to take a break and go play with your saws and get in a better mood.


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## indiansprings (Feb 4, 2010)

Not dinging Brad at all, but I'm disappointed in the way Baileys conduct's their engine component test, no wonder it has taken so long to get the BB kits right.
If this is how they developed their kits, which I have no way of knowing it's a wonder they have had this good of results. It's what the professional mechanical engineers at Stihl and Husky get paid for and their are plently of independent quality labs in both the USA and China. Brad is just doing what Baileys ask of him.


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## teacherman (Feb 4, 2010)

Does Wiseco make a piston for the 056 Mag 2? I think it is 56 mm across.


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## pinemartin (Feb 4, 2010)

It would be cool if Baileys sent out a set number of pistons for free to several people for testing instead of shipping a saw back and forth and hoping it makes it past the UPS handling. If this is a possibility (Greg) I will take a 52mm piston for my ms460 and I will take pictures of install and pictures after 100 hours or so (about 10 weeks) of use.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> Not dinging Brad at all.... Brad is just doing what Baileys ask of him.



Thank you! At least somebody gets it


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## Arrowhead (Feb 4, 2010)

Stihl088stock said:


> Hat's off to Brad for a great offer...





This is a test, your saw is a guinea pig. A test to see if the pistons are any good...........WHAT IF THEY ARE NOT??? :monkey: What if your saw performs better with the OEM??? Then your out at least $100, and your saw runs worse. Great test! The only way this would work is like Ultra mentioned, you will need to live close to his house (no shipping), then have a saw that is actually needing a piston that you could not install yourself. I know Wiseco is a great brand...... BUT what if???? If Baileys wants to test, they should pay Brads labor, and the saw owners shipping. Yea, probably won't happen..... but this test probably won't either!


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

50 labor is profit, so its not a "no profit proposal". I charge a certain price for my time above parts, but ya cant advertise no profit when you are paying yourself for labor.

Its just a bad idea Brad, Im not trying to slam you or discredit, its just a bad idea, and I dont see too many intelligent people sending a good running pro saw to gain a piston, and paying 50 bucks plus shipping x2.

If Baileys wants people to test pistons, maybe send them to people that agree to take pics, log run time and conditions, etc. (On their own saw)

I would do that, but no way Im going for your deal. Its a losing proposition for the saw owner.


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## Stihl088stock (Feb 4, 2010)

Arrowhead said:


> This is a test, your saw is a guinea pig. A test to see if the pistons are any good...........WHAT IF THEY ARE NOT??? :monkey: What if your saw performs better with the OEM??? Then your out at least $100, and your saw runs worse. Great test! The only way this would work is like Ultra mentioned, you will need to live close to his house (no shipping), then have a saw that is actually needing a piston that you could not install yourself. I know Wiseco is a great brand...... BUT what if???? If Baileys wants to test, they should pay Brads labor, and the saw owners shipping. Yea, probably won't happen..... but this test probably won't either!



Then that is the expense of a FREE piston... Please read ALL the posts...


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## stihlboy (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Thank you! At least somebody gets it



you think a wiseco could pull that 64'' bar on my stock bore 066?
i'd run my 24'' on it mainly

im willing to run my 066 for atleast 8 hours a day, i have alot of cutting that i need to do.

let me know


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## Jacob J. (Feb 4, 2010)

teacherman said:


> Does Wiseco make a piston for the 056 Mag 2? I think it is 56 mm across.



I'd be giddy if they made a 56mm domed piston for the 056 Mag II with dual 1mm rings...


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## teacherman (Feb 4, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I'd be giddy if they made a 56mm domed piston for the 056 Mag II with dual 1mm rings...



Yeah, no kidding. I found an OEM on eslay for about 50 dollars a while back, pure luck I happened on it. Otherwise NLA. Not domed, I don't think.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Tom, I take it you're bored tonight and have nothing else to do. You're blowing this so far out of proportion it's not funny. I have absolutely *nothing *in these except for the $50 I asked for to make it worth my time doing the piston swap. If you're just looking for a good tussle, which is pretty obvious, well, I'm not in the mood tonight. You'll have to settle that with Demi.:greenchainsaw:



Brad I am not bored at all, in fact I'm quite frisky. All I have done is called you out on that insane offer you put up. No your not in the mood and I know and you know why. Since I am so frisky I'll ask you one simple question, you answer it honestly and I won't bother you at all. What makes you quailfied to test a piston, anything, you got some background, some factory knowledge, a certification by a piston manufacture, have you got anything to show us your testing methods are the approved standard? Answer yes or no, if the answer is yes, please come forward and explain, if the answer is no thats fine too but its only fair your customers know your certifications in the testing feild.


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## wooddog (Feb 4, 2010)

Sir if Bailey's wanted to test pistons out. Why wouldn't they just offer the pistons FREE to the end user to install in their own saws and give feedback after a lot use. No middle man making $50 a chainsaw is required. I think this whole thread is just as Thall states. A BS scheme, get it bs . 

If you read through the old threads here from years past this was how it was done by all the other people offering up pistons to test.


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## Gumnuts (Feb 4, 2010)

IndianSprings - 
As far as metalurgical content ,i for one have faith, Wiseco do have a handle on content for specific application> i do not have the specifics on hand but spoke to them in Australia and US last year.
ALSO their quality control is proven.

As for Baileys..... they have a track record of standing behind their product.

IMPORTANTLY ,you mentioned other testing,in field duration testing ,with a logging company......I don't believe Baileys ,in the past, have limited their testing to one person.

Personnally speaking , i believe it is a smart move to have Brad involved .Ihe offer smacks of integrity .

I do not discredit what your experience is ....just adding to it.


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## lwn9186 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm in awe that Bailey's would be silly enough to use this approach to test any new product. I hope they are allowing a little more clearance for the forged piston. Good way to junk a jug.


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## pinemartin (Feb 4, 2010)

pinemartin said:


> It would be cool if Baileys sent out a set number of pistons for free to several people for testing instead of shipping a saw back and forth and hoping it makes it past the UPS handling. If this is a possibility (Greg) I will take a 52mm piston for my ms460 and I will take pictures of install and pictures after 100 hours or so (about 10 weeks) of use.



Baileys has my address so now I'll go sit by my mailbox.


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## spike60 (Feb 4, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> Brad is just doing what Baileys ask of him.




Yeah, like sticking his head out of the foxhole to see if the bad guys are still out there. 

Brad; 

Don't let your enthusiasm for saws cloud your judgement here. The testing of Baileys products should be left to Baileys, not you or anyone else here on this board. And like a few guys have suggested, a proper test would have to be way more involved than this. 

Ideas like this sound harmless at first glance, but if something goes wrong, someone has to take ownership of the problem. The way this is set up, it's all going to land in your lap.

Again, put yourself in the position of a saw owner. Unless someone has a saw that he really doesn't care about at all, this experiment can't be all that attractive. Let's say I have a $700-$900 commercial saw in good condition. What possible benefit is it to me to spend another $100 to have someone put in an aftermarket piston _for a durability test_? That in itself implies that they haven't been properly tested yet. It implies that their durability is still a question mark. Whose saw we gonna test it in? Not mine. 

Funny thing is that I've been playing around with some Forrester aftermarket pistons myself. But I've confined this to using them in some blown up saws to see how they do. Mostly for my own curiosity, and I've sold a couple to guys doing the same thing to their own dead saws. In either case, there is really nothing at risk, except a little time on the work bench. So far they've been great. I've yet to see any problems at all. But I am still VERY cautious about using them to repair customers saws, and being able to stand behind the repair. Maybe to a "down on his luck" guy that really can't afford to fix his saw. Maybe to a guy that I know really well. But otherwise, I'm not comfortable with it. 

I couldn't even IMAGINE suggesting to someone that I tear their perfectly good saw down so I could test an aftermarket piston in it. And I couldn't imagine anyone letting me do it either. LOL 

This isn't a good idea. You ought to get going on that remodeling project and let Baileys test their own pistons.


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## wi50 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'd like to try one,
I have a good supply of 066-660 cylinders here and have some that are not perfect but would be great for this test, if the test goes bad, I'm out some time and a cylinder that has little value.

I've got several of these saws, and could put the piston in one and use it, and it only. Though I can't put the hours on one like some people can. And it would be one test and one only which means squat compared to the reputation of other products.

I think it is going to be a good product, but I would be sure to take some measurements and compare things, skirt clearance being the most important I feel. I'm not going to send a saw to someone to install though, I'd do it myself. I didn't get time today to make my parts order, but hopefully tomorrow I'll order one of these for myself.


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## Evan (Feb 4, 2010)

wiseco will replace and probly stomp meteor piston sales into the ground. they are very good pistons. it is very cool that baileys is dealing with them

id would pay full price to have one in my 066 id dont see any reason to test them they are that good


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Sir if Bailey's wanted to test pistons out. Why wouldn't they just offer the pistons FREE to the end user to install in their own saws and give feedback after a lot use.



That's exactly what Baileys did. They offered *me *the pistons to test out. The problem was, I didn't have all of those saws with OEM jugs. So I tried to come up with a way that I could still help them out, and asked them about doing this. Perhaps I didn't think it out well enough. Fine. But you guys sure have whipped this up into a frenzy, in typical AS style.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Yeah, like sticking his head out of the foxhole to see if the bad guys are still out there.
> 
> Brad;
> 
> ...



Very well said. 

Baileys, this is to you. There are a lot of us here that would be willing to do this test that are more than competent to provide whatever information you would want. This would also save a lot of money that would be wasted in labor and profit. Plus, I dont really cotton to the idea of ANYONE else having possession of my expensive saws, including the shippers.

That being said, I would try it in my sweetass 044 if offered, but the shipping and paying for somebody elses labor when I can do just as good of work is not gonna happen.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

spike60 said:


> This isn't a good idea. You ought to get going on that remodeling project and let Baileys test their own pistons.



I've got to agree with you. It was not a good idea on my part.


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## Mad Professor (Feb 4, 2010)

I'd like to see mass compared to stock. I ran wiesco in dirt bikes and the slugs were heavy as a boat anchor to stock. VERY well made pistons though!!!


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

Before all you guys go jumping down Baileys throat, this was MY idea, not Baileys. I did run it by them before posting, but it was not their idea. Just because they offered to have me "test" a few pistons for them, does not suggest that's the extent of their testing. I honestly have no idea what all they do in that reguards. Me thinks some of you guys need to get out and enjoy some fresh air. I guess it's the mid-winter doldrums


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## Arrowhead (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> That's exactly what Baileys did. They offered *me *the pistons to test out. The problem was, I didn't have all of those saws with OEM jugs. typical AS style.



Send me an 044 piston, I will install it and put 20 hours a week on it. I will even pay for you to ship it here.


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## Mad Professor (Feb 4, 2010)

lwn9186 said:


> I'm in awe that Bailey's would be silly enough to use this approach to test any new product. I hope they are allowing a little more clearance for the forged piston. Good way to junk a jug.



50% of (normal) wear occurs in the first 5 minutes, that is warm them up before stomping on them


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## rxe (Feb 4, 2010)

Ew, nightmare.

Anyone with a new(ish) 460 isn't going to try this - why would they. You might get people with a pretty tired 460 (or 046) who'll give it a go, but what sort of a test is that - was it the jug or the piston that failed. Either way, you'll be left holding the proverbial baby for a $700 saw that has blown up. And let's face it, everyone will remember the blown saws, not the ones that worked. I really wouldn't want that risk.

If they want to try out some pistons, build some Contra spec 58 mm jobs and send them to me. I'll take them milling, and send them a photo of every plank milled if that is what it takes. Not sure what sort of a test it would be (given the variable state of the jugs), but I'd be willing to give it a go..... I reckon a lot of Contra owners would be willing to do the same. 

(Brad - I'd rep you for trying, but I need to spread it around.....)


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## CentaurG2 (Feb 4, 2010)

All is strange and vague. Are we dead? Or is this Ohio?? 


I thought Thomas was the only one this web site that had a sense of humor. This has to be the funniest post I have ever seen on this site! You *only* pay me $50 and shipping both ways!!!


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## walexa07 (Feb 4, 2010)

Off topic.......but I have run wiseco pistons in my polaris 400. The oem cast piston could really rack up some miles/hours, but RCR racing said the skirts were prone to breaking off and trashing the block. The forged piston (wiseco) is tougher, but the downside is shorter ring life. Compression started off strong, but the rings just didn't hold up anywhere near as well as stock rings did. Stock rings were keystone and thicker. If the rings on these chainsaw wiseco pistons are not as thick as oem I would think you could not expect the same life as oem. 

Now what would be awesome in wiseco would be popup pistons for several of the most popular saws. It would be awesome to get them for the 026, 361, 2171, and 2153 for starters 

I agree with others that this was not well thought-out by BS.......BUT I don't think he was trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes or make killer dough changing pistons out. I believe he was just trying to help people out and test pistons out at the same time for Bailey's. What I DO think would be a great idea is if Bailey's supplied a cylinder to go with that piston. Regardless if the cylinder is oem or aftermarket. It would make the whole deal different in MY eyes. Just my opinion.

Waylan


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.

Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the *men *I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.

Have I not been here long enough and made enough contributions to the site for you guys to realize my intentions? Yeah, sometimes my enthusiasm clouds my judgement, and I've paid for it, just like I'm paying now. But the mistakes are honest. Some of you act like I've tried to devise some devious plan, intent on screwing over my fellow AS friends. $50 each for a handfull of saws? Yeah, that'll really make me rich Puuuuulease!

My only goal in this thread was to give some fit and finish reviews of said new pistons, and give the end user the opportunity to provide Baileys with appropriate feedback. If you choose not to believe that, then you simply prove my point. You're the kind that has no reguard for the truth and only celebrates when someone else makes a mistake.


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## indiansprings (Feb 4, 2010)

I think what got it stirred up in most people's mind is that a company or individual for that matter would ask people to risk their expensive saws to test a after market part in and at the owners expense! The post might as well said,

Risk 100.00 to 125.00 to see if this piston jacks up your saw, make a check out to BSnelling for 50.00 and 60-65 to UPS, sorry no guarantee, at the owners risk. 

It was the way it was approached, sometimes as one said our enthusiasm sometime blinds us. I'm sure Bailey's didn't envision people paying 50.00 labor plus shipping and risking their saw, their too good of company with too much experience. Brad probably didn't think about the way it could be perceived either, I take it the offer has been withdrawn, no harm,no foul everyone was pretty clear about their interpretation, which is the American way not just the AS way.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

I appreciate your candor IndianSprings. I also appreciate constructive criticism. Destructive criticism, or criticism giving with an attitude, not so much.


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## Eric Modell (Feb 4, 2010)

Brad you do not get it !!! Our OEM jugs are precious to us. That is why we are on this site. We respect you and Baileys, but do not ask us to pay for your profit.


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## wooddog (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.
> 
> Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the *men *I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.
> 
> ...



The usual blsnelling flip and twist it around play. We have grown tired of it Sir. 




indiansprings said:


> I think what got it stirred up in most people's mind is that a company or individual for that matter would ask people to risk their expensive saws to test a after market part in and at the owners expense! The post might as well said,
> 
> Risk 100.00 to 125.00 to see if this piston jacks up your saw, make a check out to BSnelling for 50.00 and 60-65 to UPS, sorry no guarantee, at the owners risk.
> 
> It was the way it was approached, sometimes as one said our enthusiasm sometime blinds us. I'm sure Bailey's didn't envision people paying 50.00 labor plus shipping and risking their saw, their too good of company with too much experience. Brad probably didn't think about the way it could be perceived either, I take it the offer has been withdrawn, no harm,no foul everyone was pretty clear about their interpretation, which is the American way not just the AS way.




Sir I will send rep your way as soon as 24 hours is up again. 

100% what you say , Baileys should have been the one offering this to the end users. Not a $50 one two punch from some hobbyist .


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

Eric Modell said:


> ...do not ask us to pay for your profit.



Go back and read my post just a couple back. This was not about profit. I already told you I realize now it was a bad idea. What more do you want?


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Baileys should have been the one offering this to the end users. Not a $50 one two punch from some hobbyist .



Again, like I already told you, Baileys did exactly as you suggest. It was *my *idea of trying to come up with the saws to test those pistons for which I did not have a testbed. And admittedly, it was a bad idea. I screwed up. Honestly, I'm a little embarrassed. I had not considered it from the viewpoint that I was asking the saw owner to risk an already good saw.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> 50 labor is profit, so its not a "no profit proposal". I charge a certain price for my time above parts, but ya cant advertise no profit when you are paying yourself for labor.
> 
> Its just a bad idea Brad, Im not trying to slam you or discredit, its just a bad idea, and I dont see too many intelligent people sending a good running pro saw to gain a piston, and paying 50 bucks plus shipping x2.



Posted by Blsnelling:
"Go back and read my post just a couple back. This was not about profit. I already told you I realize now it was a bad idea. What more do you want?"


Charging 50 bucks labor makes it about profit. Again, Im not being negative, but Im not an idiot.


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

wooddog said:


> The usual blsnelling flip and twist it around play. We have grown tired of it Sir.



Grown tired of it in 2 months and your 142 posts?


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## zoulas (Feb 4, 2010)

As much as we may hate to admit it, there is something more important that saws in this world. Lets be human, understanding, and courtious to each other. If you haven't learned to forgive in this world, then you haven't learned much. Don't kick a man when he is down, ITS NOT RIGHT!


Rock, on! :spam:


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> Charging 50 bucks labor makes it about profit. Again, Im not being negative, but Im not an idiot.



It was not the motivating factor. What motivated me was the opportunity to check out these new pistons, and post pics and results here on AS for everyone else to see. But admittedly, I wasn't going to replace someone's piston for free. Baileys can chose to give out a piston free for testing, but my time isn't free. But again, that wasn't the motivator for this idea or thread.


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## spacemule (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Brad apparently AS has caused you to loose your mind. That is about the most insane offer I've ever seen on AS. Brad how about you pay for the use of these saws since your the one that needs them for testing, your deal is azz backwards. I will give ya this, thats the best swindle out in the open I think I've ever seen,LOL



Why don't you say what you really think Tom? lol

I was going to comment on this, but I think you've got it all wrapped up.


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## cpr (Feb 4, 2010)

OK, OK, enough.

This thread is played out. Brad made a mistake in a fit of enthusiasm, he's apologized, now let's quit before someone crosses a line. He's certainly earned some good faith here.







I still think a pop-up 066 one would be sweet in the 288xp.


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## CentaurG2 (Feb 4, 2010)

Hey Brad, the bottom line is that if you or Baileys wants me to beta test a new piston in MY saw, you all are going to pay me, not the other way around. You want me to test that piston, its $50 clam an hour and I will run that puppy for as many hours as you or baileys wants me to. You will also need to give me an upfront retainer incase the aforementioned piston damages MY saw. I will return the retainer (with interest) at the end of the test period assuming that the piston did not damage MY saw. 

I will give you a bit of free advice; go take business courses at your local community college. If you want to continue to play business man online you really need to get both a financial and legal clue. Good luck!


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## olyeller (Feb 4, 2010)

*This is too much!*

Now Space and Thall are making like love birds? Where am I? The Twilight Zone?

CPR, you got it right. I just figure Brad was excited about Bailey's offering a new option in replacement pistons and wanted to generate some data, observations and feedback to share with all of us here on AS. Big Whoop, guys. Everybody go spend some time with your family for a while and leave this bickering behind.

Olyeller


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

cpr said:


> OK, OK, enough.
> 
> This thread is played out. Brad made a mistake in a fit of enthusiasm, he's apologized, now let's quit before someone crosses a line. He's certainly earned some good faith here.
> 
> ...



Easier said than done. Some people just can't let go. Some members here have been harping on Brad, some deserved but some not, and won't give up now that their previous actions feel justified. The "I told you so" mentality.


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## mtngun (Feb 4, 2010)

Brad. you make a tremendous contribution to this forum, and I just rep'd you again. You've taught me a lot whether you realize it or not. Sometimes I go back and re-read your build threads several times.

I've already offered my 2 cents on the forged piston, so I won't say any more. :chatter:


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## wooddog (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> Grown tired of it in 2 months and your 142 posts?



Sir I have been reading in the back ground for awhile here and just got bored this winter and thought I would join in. 

Just seems like everyone is a troll if he don't like something is said and tries to flip ad spin it around to make himself look good. Go read it's in thread after thread after thread. 


I have plenty of time to read you know.


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## stihlboy (Feb 4, 2010)

Here is the way i see it,

the piston from baileys is ~$120 + shipping


now, for ~$100 you get the new piston installed and ready to go, and still have your oem piston as back-up.

if i were tearing a saw down i probably would charge too because there is alot of time involved in doing this.

think of it this way, you save ~$30 and you don't have to install the piston yourself

If you look at it that way it is not a bad deal


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## cpr (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> Easier said than done. Some people just can't let go. Some members here have been harping on Brad, some deserved but some not, and won't give up now that their previous actions feel justified. The "I told you so" mentality.



I know.

I don't know anyone here personally, but I feel like you guys are my friends. This thread stopped being a disagreement and started being a fight. I hate seeing friends fight.

Tonight's homework: Hug your mom, kiss your wife, tickle your kids, wake up happy.


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## spacemule (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.
> 
> Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the *men *I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.
> 
> ...


Are you apologizing or applauding yourself, or just being negative about people with legitimate concerns? It's hard to tell.


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## little possum (Feb 4, 2010)

olyeller said:


> CPR, you got it right. I just figure Brad was excited about Bailey's offering a new option in replacement pistons and wanted to generate some data, observations and feedback to share with all of us here on AS. Big Whoop, guys. Everybody go spend some time with your family for a while and leave this bickering behind.
> 
> Olyeller


Olyeller, YOU SAID IT!!! Rep your way when I am able.

Brad I have a 371 Id let you tinker with because I have a extra jug, but the money just is not being pulled in enough for me to send it off. Id love to help out with a experiment like this, because when Husky decides they are not going to make any more pistons(Like the Dolmar 166) we are going to need an alternative. If something picks up, you can rest assured the 371 would be headed North


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## thomas72 (Feb 4, 2010)

In reality you need to test these pistons in a controlled environment at first with the ability to monitor cylinder/head temp. I would not test pistons in this manner as the test results will more than likely will be erroneous. If you really want people to test these pistons as you mentioned you need to sale the piston or donate it right out and compensate the operators for their time in putting the piston in. Testing is something you do not want to skimp out on and spending the money now to correctly test the pistons will save in the long run.


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## Cliff R (Feb 4, 2010)

Interesting thread. I feel for ya Brad, you just want to help out, then a few folks have to pick the entire idea apart like a black bird picking corn out of cow poop.

In any case, a forged piston doesn't bring anything to the table in terms of a performance improvment/advantage. If anything, it may make a bit less power than the stock piston simply by adding some reciprocating weight to the assembly. 

Even though the alloys used with modern forgings allow much tighter cylinder wall clearances, they still need more room than cast pistons. The piston "rock" in the bores a tad more, and ring life suffers accordingly.

It will be difficult to evaluate the testing, as they still may run flawlessly for many hundreds of hours of use. If the pistons aren't up to par, of course, we will find out much, much sooner......Cliff


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## THALL10326 (Feb 4, 2010)

thomas72 said:


> In reality you need to test these pistons in a controlled environment at first with the ability to monitor cylinder/head temp. I would not test pistons in this manner as the test results will more than likely will be erroneous. If you really want people to test these pistons as you mentioned you need to sale the piston or donate it right out and compensate the operators for their time in putting the piston in. Testing is something you do not want to skimp out on and spending the money now to correctly test the pistons will save in the long run.



Awww some wisdom has arrived. For what it may be worth testing and playing are two entirely differant things. Looking at fit and finnish and doing alittle sawing is not testing. Real testing in where you take the product and you do everything you need to do to MAKE IT FAIL. You overheat the saw on purpose, you run it lean, you change the air fuel ratio and on and on and on untill the product fails. If it fails before it should it needs to be improved and go through testing again unitll its good enough to put on the market. Thats testing. The average end user can not test a piston period. He doesn't have the equipment, the labs nor the knowledge. 

To you Brad. I know you may think I'm being mean and orenry to you about all this but I'm not. I'm being honest and you should be too. I see you have changed your mind on the whole idea and thats good. What the hell you was thinking was beyond me but sometimes even you oh great one need a wake up call. Thats what ole daddy is for. Now give Big Prick a beer,


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Awww some wisdom has arrived. For what it may be worth testing and playing are two entirely differant things. Looking at fit and finnish and doing alittle sawing is not testing. Real testing in where you take the product and you do everything you need to do to MAKE IT FAIL. You overheat the saw on purpose, you run it lean, you change the air fuel ratio and on and on and on untill the product fails. If it fails before it should it needs to be improved and go through testing again unitll its good enough to put on the market. Thats testing. The average end user can not test a piston period. He doesn't have the equipment, the labs nor the knowledge.
> 
> To you Brad. I know you may think I'm being mean and orenry to you about all this but I'm not. I'm being honest and you should be too. I see you have changed your mind on the whole idea and thats good. What the hell you was thinking was beyond me but sometimes even you oh great one need a wake up call. Thats what ole daddy is for. Now give Big Prick a beer,



Hey Tom, would you sell a saw that has not been tested by anyone? Probably not, so i can't figure out why Bailey's has the Wiseco pistons for sale if they haven't been tested. Why don't they wait to put these on the market until the test results come in? This is reminiscent of the the bad cylinder kits they sent out. Rushing to market with products is not always the best strategy. Wiseco makes great pistons, that is a given but who knows if the forged pistons work out in the real world.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

Here's to better thought out "testing" In no way would I ever try to replace "real" testing as you described.


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## Maldeney (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.
> 
> Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the *men *I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.
> 
> ...




Wow you should be a politician....... Wait are you? Your not related to Obama are you?

Just saying you have a "way" of (no offense) but falling into a #### pile and coming out smelling like a rose! Funny how that works.:greenchainsaw:

Oh my opinion is kinda like THALL's..... Wiseco should be doing the test's or Bailey's not you. Testing has to come from the manufacturer, then to the END USER not through a middle man.

That being said I know you have already admitted it was a bad idea, just thought I would throw out my 2 and such.


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## Teddy.Scout (Feb 4, 2010)

We are here as chainsaw nuts(cad!)

i support any one who is willing to advance cool s$&t dealing with saws!

So lets let this be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ask my machinist who has taken many many of my hard earned dollars to make parts for me dealing with saws!!!!

He at no part was profiting from this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As to send one of my tied and trued saws to be a tested on no! *BUT* I DO WANT TO KNOW FROM A AS MEMBER OR A DOWN TO CHAINSAW NUT LIKE ME TO GET A REAL LIFE ANSWER TO A NEW PRODUCT!


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

From Baileys: "Upgrade your stock cast piston to a forged piston from Wiseco. Wiseco forged pistons add durability, and the precision demanded by high performance engines of every category."

This seems a little underhanded of Bailey's promoting increased durability when the jury is still out.


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## Maldeney (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> From Baileys: "Upgrade your stock cast piston to a forged piston from Wiseco. Wiseco forged pistons add durability, and the precision demanded by high performance engines of every category."
> 
> This seems a little underhanded of Bailey's promoting increased durability when the jury is still out.



No offense but YOU are still stirring the pot.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> From Baileys: "Upgrade your stock cast piston to a forged piston from Wiseco. Wiseco forged pistons add durability, and the precision demanded by high performance engines of every category."
> 
> This seems a little underhanded of Bailey's promoting increased durability when the jury is still out.



Have you asked Baileys what testing has been done? Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. I don't know. But we're jumping to conclusions here.


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> No offense but YOU are still stirring the pot.



A little, but I think it needs to be pointed out. I think this is the root of the REAL problem here. 

I have no problems with Bailey's, but promoting a more durable piston when they are still testing them is false advertising.


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## indiansprings (Feb 4, 2010)

"Upgrade your stock cast piston to a forged piston from Wiseco. Wiseco forged pistons add durability, and the precision demanded by high performance engines of every category."

This is just ad copy that Wiseco provided Baileys, every vendor usually provides ad copy to the retailer. Baileys uses the ad copy so they can get vendor support in advertising or commonly called co-op dollars in the world of retail. It's clearly not Bailey's statement but Wiseco's.


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Have you asked Baileys what testing has been done? Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. I don't know. But we're jumping to conclusions here.



Didn't they ask you to perform a durability test? That makes me think that they haven't tested enough, even if they have put a few in the field.


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## PogoInTheWoods (Feb 4, 2010)

Anybody wanna pay me 50 bux ta send me some new free pistons to play with in a coupla blown up 026's?

Huh? Nobody? Aw shucks.

Poge

"If money is the root of all evil, how come churches are always beggin' for it?"


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> It's clearly not Bailey's statement but Wiseco's.



It is clearly on Bailey's website isn't it? Regardless of who wrote it, it is being presented with the product under the Bailey's banner.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> Didn't they ask you to perform a durability test? That makes me think that they haven't tested enough, even if they have put a few in the field.



Like I said, we're jumping to conclusions. We don't know either way.


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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Like I said, we're jumping to conclusions. We don't know either way.



You're right. We don't know.


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## Sparky8370 (Feb 4, 2010)

PlantBiologist said:


> Didn't they ask you to perform a durability test? That makes me think that they haven't tested enough, even if they have put a few in the field.



I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that weisco probably performed the requisite testing and that the testing that baileys wanted was really more of a consumer evaluation.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

Im all about quality. I spent a CRAPLOAD of money last year on saw parts for saws i built and kept, sold, and one I gave to a friend as a wedding present. (Thanks again Tom Hall, he loves that 034).

Anyway, Baileys is awesome in most all ways. I buy a lot of Meteor pistons from them sight unseen. I also know Wiseco makes good products from my racing days. But I cant see paying 130.00 for a piston until I can see, feel, and do my own measuring and testing. Hell, OEM is cheaper.

If they measure up like I think they will for the right users, they will sell. The problem is most have no clue how to treat a forged piston, especially in a 2 cycle application.


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## super3 (Feb 4, 2010)

Evan said:


> wiseco will replace and probly stomp meteor piston sales into the ground.






Get real, never happen

wiseco is heavier,4 times the cost and meteor is a very good quality piston.


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## Freehand (Feb 4, 2010)

:chatter:opcorn:


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## Maldeney (Feb 4, 2010)

Wow I wish I could stay up and watch this unfold because this is still going to blow up farther but Hey have fun!


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> The problem is most have no clue how to treat a forged piston, especially in a 2 cycle application.



Like as has already been mentioned here, expansion is my greatest concern. I would imagine that they have been undersized correctly by Wiseco. However, a forged piston is still more likely to cold seize. Forged pistons expand more rapidly than their cast counterparts. They expand considerable faster than the cylinder they are in. This is especially of concern in water-cooled two-strokes. Proper warm up time is essential. If not used properly, I would expect to see more damage from cold seizures than we have in the past. Too many saw operators simply fire them up and stick them in the wood. And old habits are hard to break.


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## nmurph (Feb 4, 2010)

> so i can't figure out why Bailey's has the Wiseco pistons for sale if they haven't been tested.



the most pertinant question!!!! i am not aware of bailey's doing this sort of thing in the past.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Like as has already been mentioned here, expansion is my greatest concern. I would imagine that they have been undersized correctly by Wiseco. However, a forged piston is still more likely to cold seize. Forged pistons expand more rapidly than their cast counterparts. They expand considerable faster than the cylinder they are in. This is especially of concern in water-cooled two-strokes. Proper warm up time is essential. If not used properly, I would expect to see more damage from cold seizures than we have in the past. Too many saw operators simply fire them up and stick them in the wood. And old habits are hard to break.



Yep. I see a possible market for racing, and high use applications. I want to try one. I warm up all my engines, from weedeaters to 500hp diesels I work on. 

I always loved the smell of burnt oil and race gas when I was racing. Funny thing was the oil smell dominated. Race engines burn quite of oil until they warm up. I was in the pits at kansas speedway during practice for the nascar race a couple years ago, and they smoke a lot upon startup, and you can actually hear the skirt slap. (forged pistons, but who knows what the nascar engine builders do to them)


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## Tzed250 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Now Tom, this is how a gentleman speaks. Spike's saying about the same thing as you, but is a lot less *caustic* And you know what, I think you're right Spike. Should have put a little more though into the liability aspect of this offer.
> 
> The saws don't need to be near new, just in perfect running condition. Maybe even one that's due for a new piston. I just don't want someone sending me their problem saw. Been there done that






.


blsnelling said:


> Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> So much for Stihl quality ehh? Check out this crap I found in a brand new MS260! The piston is marked Mahle and looks good. The cylinder is only marked Stihl. What are they doing? Outsourcing this crap to China?! Sure looks like it. So much for bashing the BB kits and hold up Stihl as an example. At least Husky is stihl using Mahle cylinders on their pro saws that I've seen.





Seems to me you think caustic is just fine if it serves your purpose. Not cool to talk out of two sides of your head, Brad.


On to a more serious note. 

How do you plan to evaluate these pistons?

I have never seen you mention that you have a set of micrometers, or a dial bore gage, or the skill to use them.


If you didn't check the clearance in each and every top-end then you have recklessly assembled a top-end. You can talk the talk, but not walk the walk. 

Maybe instead of using your "Saw Cash" to buy that* NEAR MINT 090!!!*, you should have invested in a set of instruments so that you could actually be a professional instead of a parts changer. 

I have said it before Brad, You love your big soapbox here on AS, But it calls in a lot of people that were in this game long before you ever even knew what the inside of a saw engine looked like.




.


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## edisto (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Like as has already been mentioned here, expansion is my greatest concern. I would imagine that they have been undersized correctly by Wiseco. However, a forged piston is still more likely to cold seize. Forged pistons expand more rapidly than their cast counterparts. They expand considerable faster than the cylinder they are in. This is especially of concern in water-cooled two-strokes. Proper warm up time is essential. If not used properly, I would expect to see more damage from cold seizures than we have in the past. Too many saw operators simply fire them up and stick them in the wood. And old habits are hard to break.



Why wasn't THAT part of the original post?

Just pickin'.

Personally, I've seen enough about Bailey's to feel comfortable that the kind of testing they have in mind is above and beyond the lab testing, i.e., to see how the replacement pistons they sell work out in the hands of the goofballs that are going to be buying them.

I'll probably get accused of piling on, but you made another mistake here Brad that you should learn from. You are getting free pistons from Bailey's, but sell them down the river by not knowing what testing they have done. That is something you should have established as part of the deal.

Your intentions are good, but by not having the right information, you are making Bailey's look bad.


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## indiansprings (Feb 4, 2010)

Forged will do just fine at high rpm, built a 302 chevy last year with forged pistons, forged crank, rods and reid roller cam, roller lifter and rockers, steady as a rock at 10 grand, it's hit 11+ on missed shifts.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

edisto said:


> You are getting free pistons from Bailey's, but sell them down the river by not knowing what testing they have done. That is something you should have established as part of the deal.


I was only asked to test fit and finish, and durability if I had a customer that had high hour usage.



> Your intentions are good, but by not having the right information, you are making Bailey's look bad.


Unfortunately, that's a concern of mine as well. Hopefully, Greg will stop by tomorrow and clear some of this up.


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## edisto (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Unfortunately, that's a concern of mine as well. Hopefully, Greg will stop by tomorrow and clear some of this up.



You might want to be a little more proactive than that.


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## blsnelling (Feb 4, 2010)

edisto said:


> You might want to be a little more proactive than that.



Already done.


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## 385XP (Feb 4, 2010)

Brad id be willing to test one of these pistons in my ms 460 but you will have to send the piston to me and i will install it. I run my saws 5 a weak so it would get run alot.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I was only asked to test fit and finish, and durability if I had a customer that had high hour usage.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, that's a concern of mine as well. Hopefully, Greg will stop by tomorrow and clear some of this up.



How do you intend to check the "fit"? See if it goes through 360 deg. without getting stuck or hitting something?


.


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## MR4WD (Feb 4, 2010)

I'll send you my 372. It's not quite new and it's not quite stock, but it sure runs well. Sometimes I use it all day, sometimes I use it once a week. 

If the piston lets go, you owe me a saw!


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

MR4WD said:


> I'll send you my 372. It's not quite new and it's not quite stock, but it sure runs well. Sometimes I use it all day, sometimes I use it once a week.
> 
> If the piston lets go, you owe me a saw!



:jawdrop:


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Has anyone had a problem with the pin to crown top difference, or is it a perfect fit?


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## Metals406 (Feb 4, 2010)




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## PB (Feb 4, 2010)

Metals406 said:


>



Haha! I just remembered that i need to PM you back. I will get back to you tomorrow. 







Monday was rough.


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I'd be giddy if they made a 56mm domed piston for the 056 Mag II with dual 1mm rings...



I'd be happy if they did the same thing with the 52mm 056AV.


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## logging22 (Feb 4, 2010)

cpr said:


> OK, OK, enough.
> 
> This thread is played out. Brad made a mistake in a fit of enthusiasm, he's apologized, now let's quit before someone crosses a line. He's certainly earned some good faith here.
> 
> ...



I did just that. It runs well, but not like i thought. Maybe a little more port and carb work. A work in progress.


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## Justsaws (Feb 4, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The first ones are in. It's time for some testing. As you may know, I don't get to run my saws a lot. Many of you do. What I'm looking for are individuals that are *high hour volume users* that could run these new pistons for some durability testing. What would happen, is you would send your saw to me for installation. I will be doing fit and finish evaluation on these piston. The piston is free to you. You only pay me $50 labor and shipping both ways.
> 
> I need one each of the following saws. 372, 044/440, 046/460, or 066/660. They are all standard bore. These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features. However, they are forged and should be more durable. I'm only interested in saws that are *currently in perfect running condition*. No exceptions. I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal. Please be honest with me.
> 
> If you fit this description and are interested, please send me a PM. At the current time, I am only looking for one of each model.




:monkey: I really think you need a person standing by you to bounce ideas off of before you post them. A PR person, a wordsmith, anything to level your enthusiasm with a decent dose of reality when it comes to dealing with the general public. 

Your offer is a decent offer, however rendered to the large group of people in the general public the way that it was it sounds like a snake oil sales pitch. In the future make offers like these to your previous customers or in private communication with members that you know fit the demands.

It seems doubly curious when coupled with taking a break from your previously enthusiastic pursuits. I would think that there are people on this forum that your offer would suit just fine it just needed to be handled differently.

Good luck and do not speak on behalf of the people providing the pistons or those that manufactured them without checking with each first. Step back from this and shoot out some PMs to people that you know have those saws.

I DO NOT PAY TO TEST PEOPLES PRODUCT FOR THEM, EVER. That would just be silly.

Edited to add-

I do pay my own way if I am testing a product for it suitability to my needs.

Good luck with this, I do not doubt your intentions, I just wish it was handled better.


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## Bowtie (Feb 4, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> I DO NOT PAY TO TEST PEOPLES PRODUCT, EVER. That would just be silly.



Yeah, usually its the other way around. I will do my own independant testing with Wiseco pistons, I have experience with them.


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## Justsaws (Feb 4, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> Yeah, usually its the other way around. I will do my own independant testing with Wiseco pistons, I have experience with them.



I did some edit-ting on my post to further clarify it. I am not trying to pound on Brad just offering some perspective. Wiseco can make a fine product for specific purposes.


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## 2000ssm6 (Feb 4, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> Forged will do just fine at high rpm, built a 302 chevy last year with forged pistons, forged crank, rods and reid roller cam, roller lifter and rockers, steady as a rock at 10 grand, it's hit 11+ on missed shifts.



What size crank and rods? Why spin it up to 10K, circle track racing?


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:....... .......


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## Bowtie (Feb 5, 2010)

Fastcast said:


> opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:....... .......



Whats your deal Lucille? Wishing Dolmars were popular enough for a new shiny trendy piston? :jester:


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> Whats your deal Lucille? Wishing Dolmars were popular enough for a new shiny trendy piston? :jester:



Don't need one and definitely not for this deal....You big heel.


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## Bowtie (Feb 5, 2010)

Fastcast said:


> Don't need one and definitely not for this deal....You big heel.



Heel? lol I hear ya. Just messin with ya on Dolmars, I like em too. Hell I like all saws that make chips in a reliable fashion.


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> Heel? lol I hear ya. Just messin with ya on Dolmars, I like em too. Hell I like all saws that make chips in a reliable fashion.



Same here!


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

Fact. Brads idea was a bad idea, really bad IMHO. 

Fact. Some want Brad gone so he's no longer a threat to them. These people typically have small and insignificant genitalia. 

Fact.  People who are not popular, hate people that are. 

Fact. A man would have taken brads apoligy for what it is, and moved on. Children however are narcissistic, and want all the attention. Narcissistic people often have unconscious deficits in self-esteem.


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## Teddy.Scout (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Fact. Brads idea was a bad idea, really bad IMHO.
> 
> Fact. Some what Brad gone so he's no longer a threat to them. These people typically have small and insignificant genitalia.
> 
> ...



 Brad does what some of us wish we could!


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## bcorradi (Feb 5, 2010)

I bet 90% of the people that have posted in this thread (or even AS as a whole) don't use saws enough to give a good evaluation of the performance, longevity, etc. of wiseco pistons anyhow (including me) in a timely manner. IMO if baileys really wants to test these, they need to do their testing in house or else put them into hands of people that use their saws to make a living. These are the users that put a substantial number of hours day in and day out. The price of these pistons aren't far off OEM pricewise so the consumer should be expecting equal or higher quality than OEM. These aren't at a pricepoint that the consumer should be expecting to deal with issues or being test guinea pigs.


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## willsaw4beer (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd like to know more about the pistons. I have a good shape good running 044 that feels like it could maybe have more compression. It runs well enough I haven't considered putting new rings in it yet but an oem quality piston and rings professionally installed for around $100 is a lot better than any of the local shops would offer. I would definitely consider it if it was more or less an end user field test for customer satisfaction as opposed to a test of an uncertain product...


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## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

Allow me to speculate wildly

I don't think Bailey's intention was to do testing, I think all the testing was done before Bailey's agreed to sell this product. My guess is that Bailey's wanted some word of mouth advertising. I bet they figured that if they got one of the most stand up guys on Arborist site to install some of these (likely awesome) pistons they would create a buzz while building their brand.

It isn't an accident they chose Brad:
1. he is very representative of a chainsaw nut; 
2. he knows what he is doing and insists on doing it well;
3. he is willing to teach people how to do things; and 
4. he is very willing to help people.

Its too bad this didn't work out and instead this thread got completely out of whack. I have seen more high and mighty today than I cared to. Some people brought up fair points and didn't attack anyone, but some of you jackals really showed the quality of your character. 

None of you all had anything crappy to say to Brad during the BIL thread- why didn't you call him a swindler then?


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## bcorradi (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm not going to say I agree or disagree with what brad's proposition in this thread is, but I think another fact is. Brad has probably made more transactions on AS than most of us posting in this thread. However, I have yet to see anyone publicly say that they felt shortchanged with his work, sale of parts, etc.


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## AUSSIE1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Wiseco have always had the reputation of producing high quality pistons, but I don't see the need for them as a replacement for the OEM or even a Meteor at less than the third of the price in a chainsaw.
What is the expected benefit of fitting a Wiseco over others?
I would assume being of a higher density there would be possibly less skirt wear, but in a well cared for saw getting low on compression usually has a healthy piston.
At the price, I don't see the need for anything beyond a Meteor.


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## blackoak (Feb 5, 2010)

stihlboy said:


> Here is the way i see it,
> 
> the piston from baileys is ~$120 + shipping
> 
> ...


A lot of time involved???? 30 minutes at the most to slap a piston in any pro model saw.


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## Justsaws (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> Allow me to speculate wildly
> 
> I don't think Bailey's intention was to do testing, I think all the testing was done before Bailey's agreed to sell this product. My guess is that Bailey's wanted some word of mouth advertising. I bet they figured that if they got one of the most stand up guys on Arborist site to install some of these (likely awesome) pistons they would create a buzz while building their brand.
> 
> ...



I would agree with some of that. A plan gone awry.

Wild speculation is to be saved exclussively for Dolmar 5100 threads. Hopefully he can get some pistons in some saws. I hope this was not an attempt at word of mouth advertising on Bailey's behalf, they have been around the block enough times to know better. I really really hope that these pistons have already had some actual field testing done. Product testing on the general public possessions is best left to the FDA, military and politicians as they specialize in making you pay to test their products.


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## Justsaws (Feb 5, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Wiseco have always had the reputation of producing high quality pistons, but I don't see the need for them as a replacement for the OEM or even a Meteor at less than the third of the price in a chainsaw.
> What is the expected benefit of fitting a Wiseco over others?
> I would assume being of a higher density there would be possibly less skirt wear, but in a well cared for saw getting low on compression usually has a healthy piston.
> At the price, I don't see the need for anything beyond a Meteor.



It does make you wonder what the intended market is. They are some pricey pistons.


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## teacherman (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Fact. Brads idea was a bad idea, really bad IMHO.
> 
> Fact. Some want Brad gone so he's no longer a threat to them. These people typically have small and insignificant genitalia.
> 
> ...




I went to school with her. Jenna Taylia was a real sweetheart. Loved to play "doctor." I think she applied to medical school.

Her best friend an Italian girl named Anna Maria Spermatozoa, well, she was something else entirely............

The human condition is at the same time both entertaining and disheartening.

The unconscious deficits part scares me. 

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, dog gone it, people like me!":greenchainsaw:


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## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

and then we all sit around wondering why helpful people leave the site....


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## teacherman (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> and then we all sit around wondering why helpful people leave the site....



whatever, it is a silly thread. Silly as in watching people get upset over nothing.

Something about getting one's RDA of arguing and bickering.


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 5, 2010)

Why don't we just get this thread back on track, the way Brad intended it.


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## Terry Syd (Feb 5, 2010)

*Wiseco*

Shessh, what a bun-fight. Let it go already. This is illustrative of why I no longer want to deal with the public.

Re: the Wiseco pistons, I remember way back when (and it may still be true) that Wiseco would make up a blank and then turn various size pistons off of that blank. You could have a blank made up for a 50mm piston that would also be used for a 52mm piston - the result was a very thick piston skirt.

I never used a Wiseco as I always thought they were too heavy. The stock Japanese pistons I used were very good quality castings and with a very high silicon content.

That said, if Wiseco made up some dome pistons for saws they probably have to put on help to keep up with the demand. The dome piston concept would also be consistent with a 'forged racing piston to handle the extra stress' marketing approach. 

Wiseco should step back from the replacement for OEM market (which looks saturated with less expensive pistons) and look at producing some aftermarket hop-up pistons. Heck, as long as they are turning the pistons down they could easily put a dome on them. There would be very little work involved, but they could create their own market (with no competitors) with just a change in tooling.

I'm wondering how many people on this board would buy a 'high compression forged piston' from Wiseco if it was offered. I know I would have to try one.


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## AUSSIE1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Terry Syd said:


> Shessh, what a bun-fight. Let it go already. This is illustrative of why I no longer want to deal with the public.
> 
> Re: the Wiseco pistons, I remember way back when (and it may still be true) that Wiseco would make up a blank and then turn various size pistons off of that blank. You could have a blank made up for a 50mm piston that would also be used for a 52mm piston - the result was a very thick piston skirt.
> 
> ...



And a high compression piston offered as an alternative is not new to Wiseco. 
But would the extra weight out way the benefits of a comp increase? It's a juggle.


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## Terry Syd (Feb 5, 2010)

*Dremel time*

I'll bet I could get into such a piston with a Dremel and lighten it up a bunch. The area above the pin boss is one such area on forged pistons, also reducing the thickness of the skirts in the middle and leaving a bit more around the edges, along with removing any sharp edges or corners - might even end up lighter than stock as the forged alloy is stronger than cast.


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## stihlboy (Feb 5, 2010)

are we still at this?


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## AUSSIE1 (Feb 5, 2010)

stihlboy said:


> are we still at this?



At which one as this is two threads in one.


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## stihlboy (Feb 5, 2010)

:agree2:seems like a soap opera mixed with the learning channel:agree2:


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## highpointtree (Feb 5, 2010)

*Offer*

Baileys can send us a saw or three fitted with new pistons and I will keep them insured and use good saw maintanance. We will run them 5-6 days a week for as long as they would like and keep track of conditions and hour's used. we will send saw's back (at their expense) at a time specified by them. or when saw no longer runs. We will provide labor, fuel, chains, bars and saw maintanance. What they get in return is real world testing. I will also report to AS with findings. creating a "BUZZ" for the new product..


waiting for baileys response..


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## timberwolf (Feb 5, 2010)

Testing pistons can turn out results like this pic below where I found the piston to have cracked in 4 places after only a couple minutes of run time.

Extrapolate that failure to another couple minutes of running and it would have likely destroyed a $1000 plus saw.

Its cool Baileys is putting the effort into developing new products, but seems off that the would be guinea pigs need to pay out to have their saws used as a test bed. Who is assuming the risk on this?


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## edisto (Feb 5, 2010)

highpointtree said:


> Baileys can send us a saw or three fitted with new pistons and I will keep them insured and use good saw maintanance. We will run them 5-6 days a week for as long as they would like and keep track of conditions and hour's used. we will send saw's back (at their expense) at a time specified by them. or when saw no longer runs. We will provide labor, fuel, chains, bars and saw maintanance. What they get in return is real world testing. I will also report to AS with findings. creating a "BUZZ" for the new product.



Read carefully...Bailey's was more interested in fit and finish than they were in durability. Like I said before, there is no way these pistons have not been tested. I think Bailey's is just going the extra mile to get some early customer feedback.


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

edisto said:


> Read carefully...Bailey's was more interested in fit and finish than they were in durability. Like I said before, there is no way these pistons have not been tested. I think Bailey's is just going the extra mile to get some early customer feedback.



The way companies operate today, I'm not so sure I'd take anything for granted....IMO


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## highpointtree (Feb 5, 2010)

edisto said:


> Read carefully...Bailey's was more interested in fit and finish than they were in durability. Like I said before, there is no way these pistons have not been tested. I think Bailey's is just going the extra mile to get some early customer feedback.



I would be happy to hear what you *KNOW* about the way the pistons have been tested. You *THINK* Bailey's is going the extra mile to get feedback. 
So actually your not 100% sure about either statement. 
my offer still stands for real world testing from a real world company..


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## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> Allow me to speculate wildly
> 
> I don't think Bailey's intention was to do testing, I think all the testing was done before Bailey's agreed to sell this product. My guess is that Bailey's wanted some word of mouth advertising. I bet they figured that if they got one of the most stand up guys on Arborist site to install some of these (likely awesome) pistons they would create a buzz while building their brand.
> 
> ...



I'm guessing your referring to me, if not forgive me. If you find the word swindler offensive thats good, I find a swindler offensive period. Brad said the offer wasn't meant as it appeared, I'll take his word for it. However cut it anyway you like the offer is a swindle if you read it word for word.

You also seem to be calling Brad a lyer in your post. Your laying it all on Baileys yet Brad said don't blame Baileys for it was his idea. Now either you aren't reading all the posts or your just full blowing hot air. If you want to be a armchair quarterback at least watch the whole game so you will know what the hell your talking about. Says alot about your character doesn't it, you have a great day now ya hear..


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## spike60 (Feb 5, 2010)

timberwolf said:


> Testing pistons can turn out results like this pic below where I found the piston to have cracked in 4 places after only a couple minutes of run time.
> 
> Extrapolate that failure to another couple minutes of running and it would have likely destroyed a $1000 plus saw.
> 
> Its cool Baileys is putting the effort into developing new products, but seems off that the would be guinea pigs need to pay out to have their saws used as a test bed. Who is assuming the risk on this?



That picture ought to generate a lot of enthusiasm among would be volunteers! 

I got a question here: Did I read it right that these pistons cost as much or more than OEM? Who the heck is going to buy these things? Maybe if as some guys suggested, they came out with some domed pistons that would offer a performance advantage. But otherwise, why would anyone buy one of them instead of an OEM unit?


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Just a thought on the forged vs. cast thing. I can't think of any race bikes that use cast as OEM. There is an aftermarket company that sells investment cast pistons (Vertex)....but the forged pistons are by nature stronger. Cold seize? Thats a potential issue with any piston, especially at colder temps or when things are new. Water cooled motocross bikes have been around since the 1980's with forged pistons. NO one is less responsible than the kids who get those motorcycles handed to them for toys and I can't remember hearing cold seizing being a huge issue. 

I would rather buy a well designed forged piston any day. I don't know the chainsaw market well, but my bet is the OEM Mahle's are and have been for years. Their Motorcycle pistons are.


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## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

Somebody needs some Midol.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Somebody needs some Midol.



Who?


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## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Who?



As a general rule, those who post more than 500 words in a post.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> As a general rule, those who post more than 500 words in a post.



Huh, ohhhhhhhh I getcha. Yeah I just got done reading that. Great post I thought. Here comes my reply to it.


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Fact. Brads idea was a bad idea, really bad IMHO.
> 
> Fact. Some want Brad gone so he's no longer a threat to them. These people typically have small and insignificant genitalia.
> 
> ...



I guess you could be speaking to numerous people in this thread. I've had go arounds with Brad (surprise, big deal) and can tell you I have absolutely no desire to do what Brad does. He's no threat to me whatsoever. 

Fact. 


blsnelling said:


> You only pay me $50 labor.
> 
> I'm just offering my service to help get them tested.
> 
> ...



COME ON......Now someone believes people are either damn stupid or gullible or the OP is one or the other. 


One of the best quotes on this entire thread is right here. 


CentaurG2 said:


> I will give you a bit of free advice; go take business courses at your local community college. If you want to continue to play business man online you really need to get both a financial and legal clue. Good luck!



I believe Brad really needs to take Centaur's advise....Having a business myself (14 years, not saw related) with a real accountant, vendors license, insurance, state and federal taxes, college degree etc....He needs to educate himself to be successful long term. You can't play business man. You're either one or your not. If you're making a profit on a regular basis, you better be playing by the rules or the IRS is going to pull your number sooner or later and it won't be pretty......Especially for a man with a young family.

Brad either needs to quit playing people for a fool or quit behaving like one himself.....You can't have it both ways. 

This criticism is harsh and the whiners will cry foul but the "real" business world is harsh and that's a fact!


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## teacherman (Feb 5, 2010)

StumpStomper said:


> Why don't we just get this thread back on track, the way Brad intended it.



Yer right. Sorry. I did learn that:
1. Wiseco is a premium mfr. of small engine pistons.
2. Forged pistons, being of higher density, expand more rapidly than cast, and though they are tougher and of better overall quality, there is a risk of something called "cold seizure," which can be prevented by allowing engines to warm up before putting them to work. I will now do this.
3. There are some questionable aspects to the beta testing process Brad laid out in the original post, and it does seem a bit odd. 


I personally would only use a Wiseco slug if an OEM one were NLA. Not a big aftermarket guy, myself. My Subaru had a whitish plug color after 50K using a K & N air filter, so I went back to OEM. Mileage is not everything. OK, I will step aside for more knowledgeable folks.


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> ...*no one likes to be screwed, got it, its very simple.* What we had here was a Kodak moment and the picture wasn't pretty but the exposure was crystal clear. Even the subject in the picture had to admit it didn't look good after it was pointed out to him. He took it well, you should too...



Tom, you may make some valid points. But at the same time, you're trying to tear down my character. *I take offense to that!* You show me where I tried to screw someone over! Maybe that's your business practice, but it's sure not mine! Sometimes your a great source of fun and information. Other times, you're nothing more than a cranky old troll, just like MCW described.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

On the after market vs. OEM thing..Wiseco has built better than oem quality performance & replacement products for years. In the motorcycle world. they primarily sold(sell) to the performance market place and therefor sold a better than oem product for the same cost. I don't think the saw market "gets it" as this performance mindset isn't mainstream in the saw world as it is in the motorcycle racing world. Typical in the saw support (dealers) OEM is the best possible solution and the thought of aftermarket competition as an improvement...isn't here. Yet.

If the "saw" thing grows as a motorsport and companies like Wiseco do their thing we might have lighter, stronger, with better flow characteristis pistons on the marketplace once its proven there is a desire for that type of thing. Right now? I don't see it yet..but there are possibilities. But with the bad economy and the performance markets in other motorsports suffering, companies that played there will explore all markets..even if its just for OEM quality replacement for rebuilds vs. any performance mindset. 

So to answer the "who would buy one" question:

If Wiseco sold a piston of equal or better quality than cast OEM replacements. I would buy a Wiseco Forged Piston over a Cast OEM replacement. If I'm a performance saw builder, and the Wiseco is a good quality, maybe even better than OEM quality piston, cast or forged; that will handle my performance upgrades BETTER than OEM (Ie. more RPM's & cranking pressure) I would only buy the aftermarket option to minimise my warrentee work..THE SAME AS in the performance race bike world and any other aftermarket performance business does now.

I have seen some cast OEM pistons posted on this forum...Husky & J-red are a tougher sell as they have historically used Mahle Forged pistons, at least that is my understanding. Mahle has the same reputation in the performance world as Wiseco...so they should be at a similar cost level all things being equal.

(If I'm a Stihl dealer who argues OEM is good enough assuming it didn't fail & the saw builder wouldn't have found the casting flaws if they would have just left things alone! ..I wouldn't be pleased with the alternative path customers might have.:jawdrop: Just pokin fun THALL)

So..who would buy them? If they are equal to the OEM's in quality & cost...its a 50/50 deal and availability is the decider. Online sales pushes it to one side or the other. If they are a high quality forged piston better than OEM..the performance builders start the trend and the rest follow as they see it as an upgrade over OEM. Perception is reality.


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## Kemper (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Like as has already been mentioned here, expansion is my greatest concern. I would imagine that they have been undersized correctly by Wiseco. However, a forged piston is still more likely to cold seize. Forged pistons expand more rapidly than their cast counterparts. They expand considerable faster than the cylinder they are in. This is especially of concern in water-cooled two-strokes. Proper warm up time is essential. If not used properly, I would expect to see more damage from cold seizures than we have in the past. Too many saw operators simply fire them up and stick them in the wood. And old habits are hard to break.




Brad,
I remember this well, my kids ran Wiseco pistons in their water cooled dirt bikes, i had a heck of a time convincing them to warm up those bikes before taking off!


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## jd548esco72 (Feb 5, 2010)

i have built many an automotive engine with forged pistons. forged pistons do have a place in performance work.

normally in an automotive slug the forged piston is lighter than it stock cast counterpart and it can take more abuse. it does need a warm up and it does expand more. due to the extra expansion the piston to cylinder wall clearance is more critical. forged pistons in an automobile power-plant will require a re-balance due to the loss in piston mass usually.

due to the critical clearance issue with the forged part i don't use forged pistons in a every day chainsaw. to me a quality 356T-T6 high slica piston would be a better bet even though it also needs a bit more room than a cast it can fit much tighter than a forged part. being you can't machine a chainsaw jug to fit very easy. you can see where this can be a big stumbling block in getting the proper fit.

now if i was going to build a race saw and run NO2-- i would use the forged. but i can't see a forged piston doing anything better in a daily run saw. in fact what i see in my crystal ball is that a forged piston in a daily work saw may be problematic.--this is JMHO--and your mileage MAY vary.

i also can't figure for my life why a forged saw piston might weigh more than a forged part --but i have never worked with the forged saw piston.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Kemper said:


> Brad,
> I remember this well, my kids ran Wiseco pistons in their water cooled dirt bikes, i had a heck of a time convincing them to warm up those bikes before taking off!



We've had 6 kids do the motorcycle things. Wiseco was always a choice of mine when rebuilding. I never had cold seize problems...but ALWAY feared that I would.

One thing the performance builders were looking for was the ability to build a race motor concept and then be able to replicate it from one customer to the next. The higher quality forged pistons along with other after market "better and or more accessible" than OEM parts made that possible. The mods that required piston modification demanded the extra strength of forged pistons....back in the 1970's and 1980's the aftermarket parts business went wild. Then companies like Pro Circuit brought the art of race motorbuilding to a level no privateer could match in his home. BUT what ever parts Pro Circuit used (or other guys like that) was the choice of the privateer as they tried to mimic as best as they could the durability of those factory level race motors.

Builders like BLsnelling can literally create a market for a company like Wiseco by advertising they use a particular aftermarket brand.....then the "cool factor" begins as well as the reality some aftermarket companies with a performance bent will product better than OEM parts...and all those who rebuild look to the performance builders for guidance.

AND those who know enough to look to rebuilders for advice in..building their own saws..arn't going to have a problem with warming up their saw before use. BUT those who go to a dealer for warrentee repair will. So the dealers have to "deal" with the "tool" factor. (Pun intended)

Me? I bought a Golf piston for cheap because there was no other option for my 820 J-red. If Wiseco built a piston that blsenelling and the like preferred to build their performance saws with..I'd pay three times what I paid for the golf to have it. But I've been in motor sports since the early 1970's...


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## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Tom, you may make some valid points. But at the same time, you're trying to tear down my character. *I take offense to that!* You show me where I tried to screw someone over! Maybe that's your business practice, but it's sure not mine! Sometimes your a great source of fun and information. Other times, you're nothing more than a cranky old troll, just like MCW described.



Quite the oppsite, I've gave away more to folks on here than I've ever sold, thats a fact. I'm not trying to tear you down at all, your doing a real good job of that yourself. Show you where, ha, go look at your offer, you wrote it. Your taking offence because your loyal following can't dig you out and I'm sure as hell not gonna sit back and let em feed me a big line of BS to cover your hiny, tant gonna happen. I told you last nite you needed a wake up call over that offer. You seemed to agree. I didn't post anymore after that. Now I'm suppose to let your defenders spit out a bunch BS on your behalf, forget it. 

Also you got a bad habit. Anytime anyone gives you some grief you always say awwww their just a troll and blah blah blah, never fails. Well to be quite honest you trolling for suckers is what started this thread so give it a rest, its getting old. Wooddog was right, you got a habit of when in trouble holler troll, sorry not working this time.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> Just a thought on the forged vs. cast thing. I can't think of any race bikes that use cast as OEM. There is an aftermarket company that sells investment cast pistons (Vertex)....but the forged pistons are by nature stronger. Cold seize? Thats a potential issue with any piston, especially at colder temps or when things are new. Water cooled motocross bikes have been around since the 1980's with forged pistons. NO one is less responsible than the kids who get those motorcycles handed to them for toys and I can't remember hearing cold seizing being a huge issue.
> 
> I would rather buy a well designed forged piston any day. I don't know the chainsaw market well, but my bet is the OEM Mahle's are and have been for years. Their Motorcycle pistons are.



Where in the world do you get your info from? In 30 years of working on Japanese two-strokes I have never seen a forged OEM piston. Yamaha and Honda use ART cast pistons in nearly every model. A forging is easy to tell from a casting as it has no relief between the pin boss and the dome. This is one of the things that makes forgings crazy heavy and unfit for use in high rpm applications. 

If you have proof of use of such forged piston use, please present it. 


.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Where in the world do you get your info from? In 30 years of working on Japanese two-strokes I have never seen a forged OEM piston. Yamaha and Honda use ART cast pistons in nearly every model. A forging is easy to tell from a casting as it has no relief between the pin boss and the dome. This is one of the things that makes forgings crazy heavy and unfit for use in high rpm applications.
> 
> If you have proof of use of such forged piston use, please present it.
> 
> ...



Every KTM and Husky I ever owned (And still have) has a Mahle forged piston stock. Every motor I ever rebuilt has a wiseco forged piston...for over 30 years. I have a 1982 Husqvarna 430 in the garage and a 1979 KTM 420 in the garage..both with OEM Mahle forged pistons. I have a 1990 RM250 in the garage with a Wiseco piston. AND I have 2 VOR (Italian) motorcycles in the garage with forged pistons OEM...and one thing I can also say is those Euro brands didn't require as many rebuilds in a season as their Japanese counterparts. When I went to first Kawasaki and than to Honda, they were all rebuilt with Wiseco pistons.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

A discusion..four strokes..but a discussion just the same:
http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/motocross.php?page=53


Wiseco's cut on forged pistons for Dirt Bikes:

http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/DirtBike.aspx


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## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> On the after market vs. OEM thing..Wiseco has built better than oem quality performance & replacement products for years. In the motorcycle world. they primarily sold(sell) to the performance market place and therefor sold a better than oem product for the same cost. I don't think the saw market "gets it" as this performance mindset isn't mainstream in the saw world as it is in the motorcycle racing world. Typical in the saw support (dealers) OEM is the best possible solution and the thought of aftermarket competition as an improvement...isn't here. Yet.
> 
> If the "saw" thing grows as a motorsport and companies like Wiseco do their thing we might have lighter, stronger, with better flow characteristis pistons on the marketplace once its proven there is a desire for that type of thing. Right now? I don't see it yet..but there are possibilities. But with the bad economy and the performance markets in other motorsports suffering, companies that played there will explore all markets..even if its just for OEM quality replacement for rebuilds vs. any performance mindset.
> 
> ...






Mahle pistons for chainsaws are cast not forged. 




.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Mahle pistons for chainsaws are cast not forged.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I stand corrected on the OEM chainsaw side as that was my (mis)understanding, and as I said I don't know the chainsaw market. Did you do your research on the KTM and Husqvarna OEM pistons?...since the 1970's? Actually this is perfect as that opens the door for a performance forged replacement concept. Thats were Wiseco has made their mark else where. And this is about their poking around in the Chainsaw market so my premise still stands relative to forged pistons in the motorcycle racing world.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Where in the world do you get your info from? In 30 years of working on Japanese two-strokes I have never seen a forged OEM piston. Yamaha and Honda use ART cast pistons in nearly every model. A forging is easy to tell from a casting as it has no relief between the pin boss and the dome. This is one of the things that makes forgings crazy heavy and unfit for use in high rpm applications.
> 
> If you have proof of use of such forged piston use, please present it.
> 
> ...



Your screen name implies Yamaha..read this:

http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalogue/2003/Yamaha/YZ85/Default.htm


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## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*Dang..I thought this would be a fun thread....*

I like testing new stuff and see what happens in the end....I first read this and thought that sounds like a neat idea ..I think the original idea of this post was for people THAT is curious of what is new out there and how it would hold up...Yeah,,maybe if I just had 1 saw to depend on to use,,I would kinda pass,,but me havin a few,,I'd love to see how it holds up to milling...The science of testing new things is whats it called,,,,science..Someimes things work good sometimes not..
I was thinkin if people was serious about this and want to see how something holds up,,do a time study on it...Write down each time,,how long you use it,,,how long it takes between re-fuelin ,,,does it get better worst?? Maybe after a few months of running the crap outta it tear it down at a GTG and let everyone see whats is good bad about it...To me thats the fun things about some on AS...Alot of people trys diffrent things and let us know the good and bad of what worked or not...
I'm not tryin to upset anyone that thought this was a bad idea,,but I can see where Brad is coming from too... Just tought it would be fun..


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

And read this as well:

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2008models/2008models-Yamaha-YZ85-2Stroke.htm

In particular under the Features section:

"Lightweight, forged piston means less reciprocal mass and less friction for a faster revving engine with great durability.

"

Actually, now that I think about it; I remember several Japanese motocrossers had forged pistons from time to time...want me to do that research?


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

stipes said:


> I like testing new stuff and see what happens in the end....I first read this and thought that sounds like a neat idea ..I think the original idea of this post was for people THAT is curious of what is new out there and how it would hold up.......
> 
> I'm not tryin to upset anyone that thought this was a bad idea,,but I can see where Brad is coming from too... Just tought it would be fun..




And that is the point. The original intent of this thread is excellent and Innocent. Those folks who would volunteer are absolutely aware of the risks. This was and is a great idea with all involved understanding the risks ans willing to invest saw and time testing a new product...this is the customers point of view..and the hobbyist who just interested. If I had a 372, I would donate the time for curiosity sake and the fact I have 15 other saws so the risk is small.

Now put yourself in the mindset of one who would see additional spare parts options thru a mail order outfit as competition....


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## procarbine2k1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Very interested to see how these pistons work out, and what other offerings Wiseco has in the future. Stand up company that stands behind their products, I dont think that will change regardless of what industry they are in.


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## Justsaws (Feb 5, 2010)

stipes said:


> I like testing new stuff and see what happens in the end....I first read this and thought that sounds like a neat idea ..I think the original idea of this post was for people THAT is curious of what is new out there and how it would hold up...Yeah,,maybe if I just had 1 saw to depend on to use,,I would kinda pass,,but me havin a few,,I'd love to see how it holds up to milling...The science of testing new things is whats it called,,,,science..Someimes things work good sometimes not..
> I was thinkin if people was serious about this and want to see how something holds up,,do a time study on it...Write down each time,,how long you use it,,,how long it takes between re-fuelin ,,,does it get better worst?? Maybe after a few months of running the crap outta it tear it down at a GTG and let everyone see whats is good bad about it...To me thats the fun things about some on AS...Alot of people trys diffrent things and let us know the good and bad of what worked or not...
> I'm not tryin to upset anyone that thought this was a bad idea,,but I can see where Brad is coming from too... Just tought it would be fun..




Stipes if you use your 440 enough to give him some feedback shoot him a PM and see what he says. You might not be his exact fit customer but a PM is free and starts a conversation. You could be the only guy in Kentucky with a Wiseco piston in a 440.


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## PB (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't think Wiseco is getting into the chainsaw piston market on their own. I _think_ Bailey's asked them to make a run for them to sell. You can call them up and have them make any piston you want, you just have to buy a minimum quantity. Leeha just did this with the Dolmar 166 pistons.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

MCW said:


> Unfortunately I have to agree with "some" of the points here in regard to Bailey's testing, but who's to say they HAVEN'T got pistons out there doing real world testing and gave some to Brad to test the general public's (us!) response? Marketing has many aspects to it. Mechanical testing is one part, public acceptance is another.
> 
> If Wiseco or Baileys are reading this thread to garner marketing information I'm currently thinking that the only information they will gather is that the same bunch of leaches always come out of the woodwork always at the same time against the same AS member. Hmmm, what a coincidence. It's like a pack of vultures - when one goes in they all chime in. Safety in numbers eh fellas? You always manage to derail a thread and blow it completely off course, but only the threads that suit you :censored:
> 
> ...




I know I have said this before but why do you feel it is inappropriate for those of us who "Question" Brad. Not everybody has to agree and I beleive it makes this Forum better so as to inform others of things that I and others see in some practices. we all know I have been on the opposite soap box of Brad before and I was cut up pretty hard because of it and I am fine with that. I spoke my opinion and stand behind it. Did WE get carried away with it sure but either way it is my opinion and obviously it is echoed by others.

So again my question to you is WHY can others not challenge Brad and his "Practices." (Trying to be polite.)


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## indiansprings (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm going to go out on a limb and state what I see after 25 years of doing business at a very high level (now retired) and consulting to Fortune 500 companies.

1. You cannot run a business that in some peoples eyes POTENTIALLY, could violate federal tax laws and EPA regulations on a blatant way on a media forum so open as the internet and have the respect of all viewer's.

2. You cannot tirelessly self-promote, example, Will a 372 pull a 32" bar with authority? Answer: Only if it's wood ported. Some will see this answer as that just an opinion, others will see it as self promotion, that opinion is up to the viewer.

3. When communicating you must be very clear and concise or others will digress as it fits their perception, PERCEPTION IS REALITY was one of my mentor's favorite quotes. If the statement was "Bailey's wants me t check fit and finish, that's a whole different perception that want's me to test the piston. Not saying Brad's wrong in his mind, just a poor choice of wording.

4. There are industry professional's on the site, they have a different real world perspective of the job that that of a hobbyist, one is bound by rules and penalties, but most of all his long term lively hood depends on doing the job in such a way that it gives 100% customer satisfaction and the max long term performance and longevity. A saw modder doesn't have to worry about those issue's. 

5. If a person is going to run a business, whatever that business is, go take a few courses, it will do nothing but help, especially a business law class, liability can be a ##### these days, better set up a LLC or something to protect the family and the house and possessions. I just went through it on the wood business and my son's lawn care business, umbrella liability policy the whole works, worked too hard for what I have to give it up foolishly.

6. There are two or three different schools of viewers on the site, why not set up a Modded Chain Saw forum and those who love their modded saws, timed cuts and legitimately enjoy that kind of action post there.

7. AS continues to be a very educational and informative forum for all viewer's as there are many,many members that contribute to the site.

I believe Bailey's had no intention to see this get to this point, they don't need to self promote, they are too intelligent to conduct serious testing in this manner, I don't think they probably wanted this product review publicized for the fear it could turn into a sh**pot like this. I think they'll be much more reserved in sending product out to people in the future or exercise confidentiality agreements before sending out product (you'll learn this in business class).

I'm sure this will get a ton of backlash, but it's just a observation based on reading both sides of many AS post, not that it's gospel or 100% correct, it's just an honest opinion not meant as criticism.


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## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I'm guessing your referring to me, if not forgive me.



Not just you, you are not that special 

From what I have read on this site you seem like a standup guy that knows his stuff, doesn't mind showing newbs (like me the ropes) and is also willing to help others - but not in this thread. In this thread you seem very quick to make a judgment and very loose with your condemnation of an honest man.


THALL10326 said:


> If you find the word swindler offensive thats good, I find a swindler offensive period.


I'm glad we seem to be coming to an agreement on terms. When discussing something it is always important to figure out what the terms mean; if you don't you might be arguing about two different things. In this case I think a swindler is someone who goes around and intentionally hurts others for his benefit. Can you really say in your heart of hearts that this is in any way an apt description of Brad?



THALL10326 said:


> Brad said the offer wasn't meant as it appeared, I'll take his word for it. However cut it anyway you like the offer is a swindle if you read it word for word.


No it is not a swindle, it is an offer to do business for money. I am surprised that you have a moral objection to capitalism. I don't.[/COLOR]



THALL10326 said:


> You also seem to be calling Brad a lyer in your post.


There you go again with your loose accusations. Perhaps others reading this thread can help me out; would a reasonable person think I am calling Brad a liar?[/COLOR]



THALL10326 said:


> Your laying it all on Baileys yet Brad said don't blame Baileys for it was his idea.


I think if you read my post I blamed jackals. 



THALL10326 said:


> Now either you aren't reading all the posts or your just full blowing hot air. If you want to be a armchair quarterback at least watch the whole game so you will know what the hell your talking about. Says alot about your character doesn't it, you have a great day now ya hear..


If you and I were argueing about a chainsaw i would shut the hell up and listen to someone who knows what they are talking about, but in this case I will not defer to you because you are acting out. If you think I am of lowly character and Brad is too; that is fine with me I am in good company.[/COLOR]


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

Perfect post! +1 Indiansprings

Very well said!


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## blackoak (Feb 5, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and state what I see after 25 years of doing business at a very high level (now retired) and consulting to Fortune 500 companies.
> 
> 1. You cannot run a business that in some peoples eyes POTENTIALLY, could violate federal tax laws and EPA regulations on a blatant way on a media forum so open as the internet and have the respect of all viewer's.
> 
> ...



Only backlash you'll get from me is that your post has given the best advise I have seen so far. Your a 100% dead on. Anybody thinking of starting a business pay heed to this post. Someone rep this man, it won't let me


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## teacherman (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> Perfect post! +1 Indiansprings
> 
> Very well said!



Yup.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and state what I see after 25 years of doing business at a very high level (now retired) and consulting to Fortune 500 companies.
> 
> 1. You cannot run a business that in some peoples eyes POTENTIALLY, could violate federal tax laws and EPA regulations on a blatant way on a media forum so open as the internet and have the respect of all viewer's.
> 
> ...



The Fortune 500 thing is the key. Custom saw building is not a mass market affair. The only connection is that companies like Wiseco can leverage the successes of the small race/performance oriented builders to compare head to Head with the main stream and therefore grab an edge. Throwing new products into the performance area is an age old way to get exposure, test, and build a perception. I can think of many performance companies in the Motorcycle world who would build a new pipe or shock and send samples to local racers/riders before going national with the product. There is NO difference here.

I don't understand why the comparison with all the big companies simply because there is no comparison. And in addition the small saw builder is in line with many other performance builder in other motorsports. Nothing here is out of wack with what has happened in other motorsports. The visceral reaction from those who don't have a horse in the race is...strange. Why? It doesn't matter on the large scale. Having a board member talk to other board member about testing a concept is a good thing for those who would be interested..those who are worried about all the other hash...keep worrying and keep your stock saw and go to your dealer! If this isn't an interesting concept...stick to what is! This is a board for enthusiasts..custom saw builders like this one are part enthusiast and part business so this is totally in line. Wiseco's product is going to be good..they always have. This gives options to both dealers and "do-it-yourself" types as well. Bailey happens to be a little more proactive than some..that excellent! I can't see any down side to this concept..only the reaction from those who's pride might be hurt or afraid of the saw market place going motosports and aftermarket for enthusiast..those who want status quo might object..but even then, the scale of this is insignificant..so WHY the angst??


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> So again my question to you is WHY can others not challenge Brad and his "Practices." (Trying to be polite.)



I have no problem being challenged. What I have a problem with are those with an attitude and those that are bent on tearing me down. Bring on the constructive criticism. That'll make me a better person. BTW, thanks for your candid post.


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## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Quite the oppsite, I've gave away more to folks on here than I've ever sold, thats a fact. I'm not trying to tear you down at all, your doing a real good job of that yourself. Show you where, ha, go look at your offer, you wrote it. Your taking offence because your loyal following can't dig you out and I'm sure as hell not gonna sit back and let em feed me a big line of BS to cover your hiny, tant gonna happen. I told you last nite you needed a wake up call over that offer. You seemed to agree. I didn't post anymore after that. Now I'm suppose to let your defenders spit out a bunch BS on your behalf, forget it.
> 
> Also you got a bad habit. Anytime anyone gives you some grief you always say awwww their just a troll and blah blah blah, never fails. Well to be quite honest you trolling for suckers is what started this thread so give it a rest, its getting old. Wooddog was right, you got a habit of when in trouble holler troll, sorry not working this time.



I agree Tom. In fact, you're the only member here who's offered to give me a saw. That says plenty far as I'm concerned.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I have no problem being challenged. What I have a problem with are those with an attitude and those that are bent on tearing me down. Bring on the constructive criticism. That'll make me a better person. BTW, thanks for your candid post.



You could not get better exposure and...qualified customers as a result. Those who call now will both be qualified and have the right mind set...the best thing that could happen for you is this thread drags on for days and days!


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> The Fortune 500 thing is the key. Custom saw building is not a mass market affair. The only connection is that companies like Wiseco can leverage the successes of the small race/performance oriented builders to compare head to Head with the main stream and therefore grab an edge. Throwing new products into the performance area is an age old way to get exposure, test, and build a perception. *I can think of many performance companies in the Motorcycle world who would build a new pipe or shock and send samples to local racers/riders before going national with the product. There is NO difference here.*
> I don't understand why the comparison with all the big companies simply because there is no comparison. And in addition the small saw builder is in line with many other performance builder in other motorsports. Nothing here is out of wack with what has happened in other motorsports. The visceral reaction from those who don't have a horse in the race is...strange. Why? It doesn't matter on the large scale. Having a board member talk to other board member about testing a concept is a good thing for those who would be interested..those who are worried about all the other hash...keep worrying and keep your stock saw and go to your dealer! If this isn't an interesting concept...stick to what is! This is a board for enthusiasts..custom saw builders like this one are part enthusiast and part business so this is totally in line. Wiseco's product is going to be good..they always have. This gives options to both dealers and "do-it-yourself" types as well. Bailey happens to be a little more proactive than some..that excellent! I can't see any down side to this concept..only the reaction from those who's pride might be hurt or afraid of the saw market place going motosports and aftermarket for enthusiast..those who want status quo might object..but even then, the scale of this is insignificant..so WHY the angst??



Read the bold type.... That is why this is different.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> And read this as well:
> 
> http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2008models/2008models-Yamaha-YZ85-2Stroke.htm
> 
> ...





I too stand corrected. I would like to know all of the Japanese MX bikes that came OE with forged pistons. 

I have yet to see a forged piston lighter than a cast piston. 

The highest performance two-stroke Yamaha sold the general public was the TZ250. At over 300hp/liter not much else came close. The last ones sold for $23,000. The cylinder and piston kit are over $1000, 2 are required. The TZ250 uses ART cast pistons. 


.


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## indiansprings (Feb 5, 2010)

Brad, theirs nothing personal in the post, just an opinion, based on reading on here off and on for a year. We operated our two son's wood business and lawn care service without an LLC and insurance for the first two years, of all people I should have known better, just always thought I could pay out of pocket for any windows broke etc. Well we have grown to the point where the boys hire outside help, we had an ankle broke while cutting wood a few weeks back, although our farm liability coverage took care of it, what an eye opener.
Parents could have been buttheads, sued, it would have been a mess.
Just hate to see a young family guy with a bright future open himself up, and your the same way about chain saws as I was with gun repair. You in your mind are helping people out, well now I won't touch a gun for anyone else, after a visit by the BATF after a neighbor called and told the FBI I was working on machine guns, the burden of proof shifted to me, all I was doing was building AR's from components. Sooner or later somebody a unhappy customer, a viewer, someone will cause issues, trust me been there.


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> Brad, theirs nothing personal in the post, just an opinion, based on reading on here off and on for a year. We operated our two son's wood business and lawn care service without an LLC and insurance for the first two years, of all people I should have known better, just always thought I could pay out of pocket for any windows broke etc. Well we have grown to the point where the boys hire outside help, we had an ankle broke while cutting wood a few weeks back, although our farm liability coverage took care of it, what an eye opener.
> Parents could have been buttheads, sued, it would have been a mess.
> Just hate to see a young family guy with a bright future open himself up, and your the same way about chain saws as I was with gun repair. You in your mind are helping people out, well now I won't touch a gun for anyone else, after a visit by the BATF after a neighbor called and told the FBI I was working on machine guns, the burden of proof shifted to me, all I was doing was building AR's from components. Sooner or later somebody a unhappy customer, a viewer, someone will cause issues, trust me been there.


Sounds like a good reason to retire at 18K posts, instead of 25K


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## Metals406 (Feb 5, 2010)

This thread needs to die a slow, painful death. . . Oh wait, it already has.


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and state what I see after 25 years of doing business at a very high level (now retired) and consulting to Fortune 500 companies.
> 
> 1. You cannot run a business that in some peoples eyes POTENTIALLY, could violate federal tax laws and EPA regulations on a blatant way on a media forum so open as the internet and have the respect of all viewer's.
> 
> ...




Well said Indian and your credentials are glaringly obvious with this post! 

Your #6 thought is my feelings exactly. I really wish the mods would develop a mod/hot saw category. 

Quite frankly I'm tired of all the mod this, port that every other thread. Give the modders and cookie cutters their own place to play and keep the Chainsaw category to stock saws, bars, chains, tools, oils, fuel, filters, up and coming products etc.....You know the _boring_ stuff.....When people are looking for a little more excitement they can visit the Mod/Hot saw category. I truly believe it would cut down on the bickering......This is a great idea Indian!....IMO


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## Justsaws (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I have no problem being challenged. What I have a problem with are those with an attitude and those that are bent on tearing me down. Bring on the constructive criticism. That'll make me a better person. BTW, thanks for your candid post.



blsnelling some additional information/questions per the offer.

Does the OEM piston get returned with the saw? 

Do you provide a warranty on your labor?

Do you provide the Wiseco replacement warranty parts and labor?

Does the saw owner have any recourse provided by you for recovering value from damage beyond that of the piston should a failure occur?

These are questions that if I presented your offer to commercial users they would ask me.

I can think of quite a few members here that run the specified saws commercially and would take advantage of an offer like this.

I would think that you are getting some useful PMs by now.


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## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*Reading on...*

Whats the big deal about this people.. If it all boils down to what Brad is wanting to charge for labor,,,so what,,like he's gonna get rich off of this,,I think not.....All Brad and some people that read the post at first thought hey,,,something new to try out...Lets have some fun at seeing whats new out there ,,what works and what dont work...This is the biggist BS bent outta thing I ever read on AS...Where have all the fun gone too where people wanna do something diffrent and where does it end??? I guess it's gonna get to where all you can write about is what oil mix I used and first time someone blows their sh*t up and then blames someone else for their actions...
Grow up people,,if your not interested go read another thead...I'm ashamed today....Whats happened to all of us to enjoy saws either earning a living at or a hobby......


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## Saw Dr. (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I agree Tom. In fact, you're the only member here who's offered to give me a saw. That says plenty far as I'm concerned.



I got a couple mini-mac's for ya, space.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> Read the bold type.... That is why this is different.



And?? The difference is? I can think of many builders testing suspension setups ups or motorsetups with other companies products as well. Are you implying that since BLsnelling doesn't build the pistons, he doesn't have the right to do the testing of something He may settle on within his customer base? I completely dissagree. Think of all the motorbuilders out there who use aftermarket parts in their builds...and the piston in these saws can be a major component therefore relevent.

The implication here is when he builds saws that can use the wiseco piston he will if they show the ability to stand up to his value add....same as some like shop building a suspension setup using another companies springs or seals. 

I think the issue here is the clash between aftermarket and OEM and performance aftermarket builders vs current mainstream saw support. There is no "specification" on how a builder gets exposure and attracts interest. This is a legitimate way and has obviously done just that...now I want to know how those saws (if there are any yet) perform after being fitted with Wiseco pistons!

i'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, but having been in the motorcycle business, I see this saw world going thru fits and jerks as it tries to morph into something other than simply a tool supplier towards encompassing a more enthusiast flavor for a segment of the market.

Part of what has killed American inovation is all the paper barriers between those with an inovative spirit and the customer base.


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> blsnelling some additional information/questions per the offer.





> Does the OEM piston get returned with the saw?


Absolutely. I'm not trying to "swindle" anyone out of their OEM pistons.



> Do you provide a warranty on your labor?


I always stand behind my work.



> Do you provide the Wiseco replacement warranty parts and labor?


I think you're forgetting whose pistons these are. They're not mine.



> Does the saw owner have any recourse provided by you for recovering value from damage beyond that of the piston should a failure occur?


Again, I think you're forgetting that these aren't my pistons. I'll stand behind my work anyday. But I don't have the resources, nor the responsibility to stand behind a bad product. The pistons are free. You're only paying for my labor. You know the risks up front. If you're another enthusiast and want to see how these pistons do, then have at it. Otherwise, this deal isn't for you.


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## Stihl088stock (Feb 5, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> Brad, theirs nothing personal in the post, just an opinion, based on reading on here off and on for a year. We operated our two son's wood business and lawn care service without an LLC and insurance for the first two years, of all people I should have known better, just always thought I could pay out of pocket for any windows broke etc. Well we have grown to the point where the boys hire outside help, we had an ankle broke while cutting wood a few weeks back, although our farm liability coverage took care of it, what an eye opener.
> Parents could have been buttheads, sued, it would have been a mess.
> Just hate to see a young family guy with a bright future open himself up, and your the same way about chain saws as I was with gun repair. You in your mind are helping people out, well now I won't touch a gun for anyone else, after a visit by the BATF after a neighbor called and told the FBI I was working on machine guns, the burden of proof shifted to me, all I was doing was building AR's from components. Sooner or later somebody a unhappy customer, a viewer, someone will cause issues, trust me been there.



Welcome to the new America, Guilty until proven innocent... what a shame.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Absolutely. I'm not trying to "swindle" anyone out of their OEM pistons.
> 
> 
> I always stand behind my work.
> ...




I don't think any one here reading this post makes any of the connections the post your answering does....all that is a moot point. AND your customers are your best advertisement..if they like your work, they will be silent..if they don't they will chime in and trash you. I haven't seen the trash therefor your work & perception of your ethics must be brilliant. So chill. 

(Take a close look at those who would object and put yourself in their mindset for a second)


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

I bought a nice 066 flattop lastnight. I have a couple 460s. I've got a 372 currently wearing a BB that I'm shopping for a 50mm cylinder for, and I have an offer to put a 440 piston in a saw to be milled with. If Baileys wants me to check out these cylinders, I will do so on these saws. Next time, I'll think twice, maybe three times, before I make an offer. Part of this was my fault, I've admitted as much and appologized. The rest of it tires me to no end.


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## Stihl088stock (Feb 5, 2010)

By the way, Since everyone seems to be ripping on Brad for charging $50 labor

WHAT DO CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS CHARGE FOR A PISTON SWAP???


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> And?? The difference is? I can think of many builders testing suspension setups ups or motorsetups with other companies products as well. *Are you implying that since BLsnelling doesn't build the pistons*, *he doesn't have the right to do the testing *of something He may settle on within his customer base? I completely dissagree. Think of all the motorbuilders out there who use aftermarket parts in their builds...and the piston in these saws can be a major component therefore relevent.
> 
> The implication here is when he builds saws that can use the wiseco piston he will if they show the ability to stand up to his value add....same as some like shop building a suspension setup using another companies springs or seals.
> 
> ...



You are still talking about two different things. First you are talking about the manufacturer sending out the "new" parts to race teams (the end user) for product testing, second you are talking about a Middle man "TESTING FOR BAILEY'S" whom I might add is another middle man. 

Point being is the first thing you speak of is how it shoudl be done. The second is not especially with the thought of having to (as the end user) subject my personal equipment to a "test" that I have to pay for. With no mention of liability if something goes wrong due to the product. 

Just saying you are speaking of two different things.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I bought a nice 066 flattop lastnight. I have a couple 460s. I've got a 372 currently wearing a BB that I'm shopping for a 50mm cylinder for, and I have an offer to put a 440 piston in a saw to be milled with. If Baileys wants me to check out these cylinders, I will do so on these saws. Next time, I'll think twice, maybe three times, before I make an offer. Part of this was my fault, I've admitted as much and appologized. The rest of it tires me to no end.



Not as tired as your going to be if this thread continues and those with a performance spirit see you as a way to help express that with saws...this is a good thing for you. The wet blankets aren't hurting you at all. Most see the objections for what it is. For that matter controversy generates interest...get those saws out and start posting the results and EVERYONE will be interested. Even those lurking who won't post. This is perfect. See it for what it is..a great way to get interest.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

Stihl088stock said:


> By the way, Since everyone seems to be ripping on Brad for charging $50 labor
> 
> WHAT DO CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS CHARGE FOR A PISTON SWAP???



For a "test' NOTHING I WOULD BET!

I bet THALL can atest to that.


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## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

Stihl088stock said:


> By the way, Since everyone seems to be ripping on Brad for charging $50 labor
> 
> WHAT DO CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS CHARGE FOR A PISTON SWAP???



I believe it was in the context of first saying $50 labor/my services and than saying I have nothing to benefit, I'm not making any money. 

"CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS" Have an education, credentials and pay their taxes and are held responsible for their work.

Maybe Brad has and does all these things too....I don't know. :dunno:


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## Grande Dog (Feb 5, 2010)

Howdy All,
Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
Regards
Gregg


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## Freehand (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> You are still talking about two different things. First you are talking about the manufacturer sending out the "new" parts to race teams (the end user) for product testing, second you are talking about a Middle man "TESTING FOR BAILEY'S" whom I might add is another middle man.
> 
> Point being is the first thing you speak of is how it shoudl be done. The second is not especially with the thought of having to (as the end user) subject my personal equipment to a "test" that I have to pay for. With no mention of liability if something goes wrong due to the product.
> 
> Just saying you are speaking of two different things.



I don't see that as an issue. I see that as splitting hairs. I've see this same scenario played out over and over in the racing world as there are many who massage aftermarket parts to build a better mouse trap. Think of all those guys who flow heads, put in different valves, massage valving in suspension made by other companies..this is the same. Think of all the half baked products that got tested that no longer are on the market...this could happen here...(I doubt it with the companies involved) The market corrects those issues. The difference is that racing industry is about a pass time, a recreational activity and this one not to this point in time..but is changing in that direction for some. 

I see this as an opportunity to get exposure as a builder with a new interesting & possibly better product. Its not like he's putting out hundreds. He's just finding those few who would be interested...and since this is a "free market" rather than trash the concept, let the market decide. Those who are interested will respond, those who aren't won't. If Wiseco or Bailey's have an issue they will respond..or even help..if not who cares? Way too much negative energy.

My suggestion? if your not interested...go away. If you are? Participate with eye open (if he will even do this after the wet blankets) and ALL should keep an eye as the results will be interesting to all who would build those saws..to you blsnelling? kudo's for the post. I would NEVER have found out Wiseco was entering into the market if this posting had not happened. Even if I had, this will be a tangible reference point to track how they are doing relative to the many alternatives you have used in the past. Having an open conversation such as this helps all your potential customers pick the direction they would go.


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy All,
> Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
> Regards
> Gregg



Thank you for bringing home grown products to the market place. I will spend the difference if I know its staying home. Please don't run from the Wiseco option because of bunch of cyber trash talk. My bet is way more support the wiseco concept than don't


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## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> For a "test' NOTHING I WOULD BET!
> 
> I bet THALL can atest to that.



I doubt it would make any sense for THALL to test some internal engine part. he has a great stable product that has been tested and doesn't need to hang himself out in that way ...he's not a performance saw builder. He's a great dealer of OEM high quality products and his customers wouldn't go to him for a ..test. His time is money and has the backing of the no. 1 chainsaw builder in the world to do that market research and testing...thats their job...but he can speak (quite well) for himself.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

Grande Dog said:


> Howdy All,
> Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
> Regards
> Gregg




Thank you very much for giving your customers another choice, and making it a made in USA choice is icing on the cake!!!


.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> I doubt it would make any sense for THALL to test some internal engine part. he has a great stable product that has been tested and doesn't need to hang himself out in that way ...he's not a performance saw builder. He's a great dealer of OEM high quality products and his customers wouldn't go to him for a ..test. His time is money and has the backing of the no. 1 chainsaw builder in the world to do that market research and testing...thats their job...but he can speak (quite well) for himself.



But wait.... I thought that Brad was testing a OEM replacement for "fit and finish and longevity"......... Since when or where was it stated that this was for performance saws? I might have to walk away from this discussion.. It keeps changing point to try and Massage the topic.


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## Freehand (Feb 5, 2010)

Huh?


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## Justsaws (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Absolutely. I'm not trying to "swindle" anyone out of their OEM pistons.
> 
> 
> I always stand behind my work.
> ...



Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you possibly un-tested promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.

Please be more careful. Good luck with this.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.
> 
> Please be more careful. Good luck with this.



google offer to treat and invitation to treat


----------



## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*Well Grande Dog....*



Grande Dog said:


> Howdy All,
> Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
> Regards
> Gregg



I'm one taker,,cause I wanna see what they are made off...Gonna be like Paul Harvey,,and the rest of the story...Good or bad,,,gonna put it tru the worst condition on a saw...Millin.....
To me this is gonna be fun....I'll keep a log of hours use,,gas consumtion the longer it's used,,,how it's gettin broken in...It's gonna be balls to the wall,,hardcore use...See how it lasts tru this spring to the fall tru cutting Ky. red oak... Hell yes I'm excited....
I'll give my honest thoughts,no BS to anyone....I'll mill with this as I do my jred 2186...The piston looks like brand new still when I pulled it apart when I had trouble with the fuel vent tube...Lets see how this holds up folks...Just be patience,,,have fun with me as I try it out....It'll be it is what it is....Good or bad,,,I know I'll have some fun...


----------



## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> But wait.... I thought that Brad was testing a OEM replacement for "fit and finish and longevity"......... Since when or where was it stated that this was for performance saws? I might have to walk away from this discussion.. It keeps changing point to try and Massage the topic.



No not really. But don't do this for a pride issue as no one wins.

What does Brad DO? The perception is he builds performance saws and looks at components from that stand point. If they work well for Brad, he's a test for the bleeding edge and therefore a superset of most saws. (Hard core production saws are a different story) Why would a normal CAD person be interested? Because:

1) This is a possible alternative to OEM
2) This is a possible BETTER alternative to OEM
3) This is a possible BETTER built in the USA alternative to OEM
4) This is a possibly BETTER than OEM alternative, built in the US of A, and can be had either from a keyboard or a phone call.
5) All the 1-4 issues with an outside possiblilty of a true performance gain..
6) Forged Pistons have been used in bleeding edge performance applications as they can be more durable in some situations than cast (Key word is some)...and that might appeal to the production sawyers.

All of those things makes this interesting. All Brad has done is link this product to his business by asking if there would be interest in testing a new product...sort of like a motor builder asking a few to try a new aftermarket carb setup (new jets & slide) before going to market with it..same thing.

With these saws, the piston volume and windows has to have some impact of saw performance. I know that Golf piston I put in a saw was both bigger and had smaller windows than the OEM....that contrary to a priors expert post looked to be forged...but I don't know for certain..yet.


----------



## Justsaws (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> google offer to treat and invitation to treat



I do not know what that is supposed to mean. You will have to be more specific.


----------



## weimedog (Feb 5, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you possibly un-tested promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.
> 
> Please be more careful. Good luck with this.




Why? Who's at risk here? Only Brad..ts a first come first serve by definition. So why bother being so specifiic..the PM's and phone calls will flush all that out and then one can either participate or not...free market. Actually the ones I would be worried about are those who are looking for a free ride and would see this as a way to get something for less than somewhere else. Not Brad's intent and HE can say no as well. This was an informal communication to call those of interest to try something new...and all the details would give both parties the info needed to move or not to...so who cares how the offer was put out? If I'm Brad I may not do this again in public because of all the BS..but would go to the customer base to see if there are those interested. to the rest ...the wet blankets could kill a good attitude here.


----------



## striperswaper (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't know how he could be more clear, assuming you know what goggle is/means


----------



## teacherman (Feb 5, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> I do not know what that is supposed to mean. You will have to be more specific.



http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060826034120AA189SI


----------



## teacherman (Feb 5, 2010)

freehandslabber said:


> Huh?





Rolling On Laughing Floor 
Rolling On Laughing Floor
Rolling On Laughing Floor
Rolling On Laughing Floor


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you possibly un-tested promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.
> 
> Please be more careful. Good luck with this.



Your points are well taken.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> google offer to treat and invitation to treat




umpkin2:Trick or treat?umpkin2:

.


----------



## high altitude (Feb 5, 2010)

Been a lurker here for a while and can't believe the knowledge found here. Great site. Here it comes... wait for it.... but man! I can think of only one other forum I visit that even gets close to beating on members like AS. Crazy. Brad, I admire your input here (see my first sentence) the only thing that makes me question your intelect is... why you keep coming back for more. Hang in there, I have a couple of 372's I'd like to send your way someday.

Let's all just take a deep breath... hold... exhale. There, isn't that better?


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## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

I have a question for Mr blsnelling. Have you kept your tax records for filing of taxes you need to pay on your small business for this year in the State of Ohio? Like the rest of us had to in the past in our home states with our small business.
Other words are you legit and have your vendors license to pay your state and city taxes for work you are sending out of state and out of country? The web trail tells all.

If not you will be contacted by the Ohio Department of Taxation shortly jmo. Better get things right and in order and get them records straight.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

weimedog said:


> No not really. But don't do this for a pride issue as no one wins.
> 
> What does Brad DO? The perception is he builds performance saws and looks at components from that stand point. If they work well for Brad, he's a test for the bleeding edge and therefore a superset of most saws. (Hard core production saws are a different story) Why would a normal CAD person be interested? Because:
> 
> ...



This has nothing to with pride.... But I guess we just are on opposite end of the spectrum here. 

I understand what Brad does, and what he is Interested in. The difference is that for this instinst it was advertised as..... .[/QUOTE]It's time for some testing. As you may know, I don't get to run my saws a lot. Many of you do. What I'm looking for are individuals that are high hour volume users that could run these new pistons for some *durability* testing. What would happen, is you would send your saw to me for installation. I will be doing *fit and finish evaluation on these piston*. The piston is free to you. You only pay me $50 labor and shipping both ways. 

*These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features*. However, they are forged and should be more durable. *I'm only interested in saws that are currently in perfect running condition*. No exceptions. *I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal*. Please be honest with me. [/QUOTE]

He was looking to Test only an OEM replacement to see how it reacted to Long term use, NOT PERFORMANCE (in his terms of perfomance anyway). So that is why I am saying that these test should have been done from the Manufacturer, which they probably already were.


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## wi50 (Feb 5, 2010)

Brad offered to so something for several in line who may benifit, may not. customer, Baileys, etc.

Now he's the bad guy? Yes maybe things should have been thought through a bit but I'm certain his intentions were made of good heart. Maybe several valid points were not thought of or approched in a proper manner, but it's only his problem and not yours. 

So grow up fella's. Let him keep providing a service for those who wish to use the services at small price, makeing a few bucks to help the family enjoy life, buy special tools and gain knowledge.

How many of you fella's can put a degree wheel on a saw and know what it's telling you, make the calculations and do the work, have the tools and knowledge to do so and get positive results every time? It's a small price to pay, it may seam like a lot but I can tell you he's not getting rich..... I guess he better bump the price a bit to cover the reported income, or leave it the same, cash the checks and buy the groceries and the gas. I don't care if he burries it in a shoebox in the back yard. It's his business and not yours. 

And $50 to swap a piston, repackage a saw, sounds like an honest fee to me. It alwayse takes longer than one thinks, and time to ship it back ads up. WHat about all the time spent communicating with the customer? There's no free lunch.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

wi50 said:


> Brad offered to so something for several in line who may benifit, may not. customer, Baileys, etc.
> 
> Now he's the bad guy? Yes maybe things should have been thought through a bit but I'm certain his intentions were made of good heart. Maybe several valid points were not thought of or approched in a proper manner, but it's only his problem and not yours.
> 
> ...




Wow is all I can say to that.


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## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*Well I'll put my butt on the line for this...*

Anyone that meet me at a GTG knows I'm a pretty laid back,,quiet type person.....Everytime I go to a GTG see all kinda stuff I never imagined....I would love to see alot of people on AS I never meet at diffrent GTG's as well...It's just a love I have for alot of people on here.........
All I ever used was Mcc's and the 028 super ....I thought I would buy me a new saw,,and went and got a Stihl 210 and first thing I had trouble with it...I did a search and found AS and joined and posted I had trouble with it in the idle,,new saw,,,me being proud didnt wanna take it back cause it might be something simple and it was....
Then I kept readin and bought my 440 used from the PNW...My 260 pro new cause I wanted a smaller saw that was lighter limbin with...They had a raffle on AS and I won the 346xp on my birthday and I always was hardcore Mcc. Stihl fan ,, I hated Husky's,,,you can read in my early posts I made fun of the primer bulbs on them,,,I said,,and you can read back,,I said primer bulbs suppose to be on weed wackers,,not saws,,, till I ran this one the first time...What a dumbass I was....
I would have never got into millin if I never found this site,,and in the milling section,,yeah,,,damn good folks on there...They wanna share everything they know....You dont read anyone slammin anyone in the millin section,,cause they wanna help each other...It's like I remember Gink had this Idea and his fixture he made for millin,,,well it turned out to work good....He had alot of input into it,,but all to help out,,and we was all curious to see how it would work..At the GTG he tryed it for the first time..We all had a fun time watchin him and all the hard work he put into his idea...It did work good folks.......
Andy left...Why??? Cause of people giving him hell when he wanted to help someone???They didnt agree with him and started to blast him into dirt till he said the hell with it... No only him,,but alot of good people with years of knowledge left...
It's all about the enjoyment we have with or saws.....Look,,you go to your people you work beside and start talkin about oh,,,I gotta 346xp that runs 14000 rpm's and they would look at you like your fuc*ing on drugs,,and wouldnt have a clue what your talkin about....
We all better start stickin together,,or the fun is gonna end....Think about it....


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## Freehand (Feb 5, 2010)

stipes said:


> Anyone that meet me at a GTG knows I'm a pretty laid back,,quiet type person.....Everytime I go to a GTG see all kinda stuff I never imagined....I would love to see alot of people on AS I never meet at diffrent GTG's as well...It's just a love I have for alot of people on here.........
> All I ever used was Mcc's and the 028 super ....I thought I would buy me a new saw,,and went and got a Stihl 210 and first thing I had trouble with it...I did a search and found AS and joined and posted I had trouble with it in the idle,,new saw,,,me being proud didnt wanna take it back cause it might be something simple and it was....
> Then I kept readin and bought my 440 used from the PNW...My 260 pro new cause I wanted a smaller saw that was lighter limbin with...They had a raffle on AS and I won the 346xp on my birthday and I always was hardcore Mcc. Stihl fan ,, I hated Husky's,,,you can read in my early posts I made fun of the primer bulbs on them,,,I said,,and you can read back,,I said primer bulbs suppose to be on weed wackers,,not saws,,, till I ran this one the first time...What a dumbass I was....
> I would have never got into millin if I never found this site,,and in the milling section,,yeah,,,damn good folks on there...They wanna share everything they know....You dont read anyone slammin anyone in the millin section,,cause they wanna help each other...It's like I remember Gink had this Idea and his fixture he made for millin,,,well it turned out to work good....He had alot of input into it,,but all to help out,,and we was all curious to see how it would work..At the GTG he tryed it for the first time..We all had a fun time watchin him and all the hard work he put into his idea...It did work good folks.......
> ...



Nova.opcorn:


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## Eric Modell (Feb 5, 2010)

I want to apologize to Brad for jumping in on the feeding frenzy, but it it did to appear like a slightly underhanded deal, charging the customer to take the risk.


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## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

There is enough density in this thread to float a lead keel.


Brad, keep up the good work. That was not a bad offer and I don't think you have a single thing to say sorry for. They shoot at you because you are at the top and they are not.

To all of you that think you know so much about testing and business--Get over yourselves. 

To those who tried in a nice way to offer advice to Brad, thanks for being classy and having some manners.

This thread stands as a colossal monument of shame to AS because of the know-it-alls once again having their fun. 



Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Eric Modell said:


> I want to apologize to Brad for jumping in on the feeding frenzy, but it it did to appear like a slightly underhand deal, charging the customer to take the risk.



Thanks Eric. My bad for not thinking it through and stating it more clearly.


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I have a question for Mr blsnelling. Have you kept your tax records for filing of taxes you need to pay on your small business for this year in the State of Ohio? Like the rest of us had to in the past in our home states with our small business.
> Other words are you legit and have your vendors license to pay your state and city taxes for work you are sending out of state and out of country? The web trail tells all.
> 
> If not you will be contacted by the Ohio Department of Taxation shortly jmo. Better get things right and in order and get them records straight.



you're a sad human being.....


----------



## matt9923 (Feb 5, 2010)

WOW, 19 pages of men #####ing.... 

If you don't want him testing on you're saw dont, but why attack him and ##### for 19 pages? 

I will say it could have been thought out a bit more, but I see brad trying to help someone like he always does and I see him being attacked and everyone telling him what his plans were. Lots of bad blood? 

opcorn:opcorn::help:


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> To those who tried in a nice way to offer advice to Brad, thanks for being classy and having some manners.



+1000


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> There is enough density in this thread to float a lead keel.
> 
> 
> Brad, keep up the good work. That was not a bad offer and I don't think you have a single thing to say sorry for. They shoot at you because you are at the top and they are not.
> ...



And yet you ADD to the "shame" you speak of by poking the Hornets nest.... Funny how it just keeps going isn't it.


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## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> And yet you ADD to the "shame" you speak of by poking the Hornets nest.... Funny how it just keeps going isn't it.





Sure is, but if everyone else wants to have their say I'm just as entitled to have mine. Sometimes I keep my mouth shut and sometimes I speak up, isn't it great to live in a country where we can each choose to do that as we see fit?



Mr. HE


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## Brad101 (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I have a question for Mr blsnelling. Have you kept your tax records for filing of taxes you need to pay on your small business for this year in the State of Ohio? Like the rest of us had to in the past in our home states with our small business.
> Other words are you legit and have your vendors license to pay your state and city taxes for work you are sending out of state and out of country? The web trail tells all.
> 
> If not you will be contacted by the Ohio Department of Taxation shortly jmo. Better get things right and in order and get them records straight.



That sounds like a threat. Are you gonna turn him into the EPA for emission violations too?

All this kinda BS can become a problem for people when they talk to much about what they do in open forums on the internet. You never know what kinda looney is gonna try and make trouble for you.


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## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*What underhand deal..*



Eric Modell said:


> I want to apologize to Brad for jumping in on the feeding frenzy, but it it did to appear like a slightly underhand deal, charging the customer to take the risk.



How can you say underhanded if people wanna try that??? How dare you?? That would be between Brad and the person....
Unreal....WTF....


----------



## MCW (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> So again my question to you is WHY can others not challenge Brad and his "Practices." (Trying to be polite.)



Hey I wasn't 100% behind Brad's deal. The problem isn't with questioning Brad, I've done it before myself, it's the WAY it is done. Constructive critisism or advice is what I think was needed. If I saw YOU getting needlessly bashed in a number of threads I'd jump in and support you too mate. I haven't only jumped in to stand up for Brad, I've done it with other members too. I've also jumped in and got stuck into a few idiots that have posted, Brad isn't one of them. Brad's integrity was questioned, and having dealt with Brad from the other side of the world, never even having spoken to the man, I can assure you his business integrity is right up there with the best. He gets my money first, and has always delivered. I would rather deal with him than any of the idiot local Stihl dealers...
Many people forget that some people that attack Brad have bought that crap from another chainsaw site by all accounts.

I could tell by the responses from my first post that the people I was referring to knew who they were...


----------



## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> you're a sad human being.....





Brad101 said:


> That sounds like a threat. Are you gonna turn him into the EPA for emission violations too?
> 
> All this kinda BS can become a problem for people when they talk to much about what they do in open forums on the internet. You never know what kinda looney is gonna try and make trouble for you.



Sir's it is sad and not a threat. I had to pay my fines and learned my lesson back in the 70's. It was just a word of warning to Mr blsnelling from one older and wiser

So who now is the ones twisting things around and taking warnings as threats and sad.  

I was caught without a web trail. Now go back and look at Brad's web trail . It's going to cost some major money in fines if he doesn't have his vendor's license when it happens.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Sure is, but if everyone else wants to have their say I'm just as entitled to have mine. Sometimes I keep my mouth shut and sometimes I speak up, isn't it great to live in a country where we can each choose to do that as we see fit?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black is it not? You complain when people "speak" their minds and yet you do the same but it is okay. Funny....


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey Wooddog. Are you in this picture? If not, pray tell who are you? Most of us at the GTG know each other, and it's mighty funny no one knows who you are. BTW, here's the rest of the pics if you want to sort through them and tell us who you are. LINK


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## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*So true....*



Hddnis said:


> There is enough density in this thread to float a lead keel.
> 
> This thread stands as a colossal monument of shame to AS because of the know-it-alls once again having their fun.
> 
> ...


----------



## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Sir's it is sad and not a threat. I had to pay my fines and learned my lesson back in the 70's. It was just a word of warning to Mr blsnelling from one older and wiser
> 
> So who now is the ones twisting things around and taking warnings as threats and sad.
> 
> I was caught without a web trail. Now go back and look at Brad's web trail . It's going to cost some major money in fines if he doesn't have his vendor's license when it happens.



:


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black is it not? You complain when people "speak" their minds and yet you do the same but it is okay. Funny....





I never said a person can't say what they want, but I can think whatever I want of what they said and the person that said it. You see the difference?

Frankly what I said is right, you don't like it, you don't agree with it, you can't see the truth. That's fine, we disagree, it happens, life goes on.


You can't seem to let something go, can you?




Mr. HE


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> I never said a person can't say what they want, but I can think whatever I want of what they said and the person that said it. You see the difference?
> 
> Frankly what I said is right, you don't like it, you don't agree with it, you can't see the truth. That's fine, we disagree, it happens, life goes on.
> 
> ...



Neither can you Mr. He.... Our past shows that. So because somebody else post's first then it is fair game to comment on theirs.. Right? Okay so obviously somebody posted before that to cause the response so they were in the right... Right? So I ask this what came first the chicken or the egg? Or the Post or the Response? Hmmmmmmmm


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## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> Neither can you Mr. He.... Our past shows that. So because somebody else post's first then it is fair game to comment on theirs.. Right? Okay so obviously somebody posted before that to cause the response so they were in the right... Right? So I ask this what came first the chicken or the egg? Or the Post or the Response? Hmmmmmmmm




I never quoted you or singled you out, you were the one that stepped up and started the one on one. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just the way it happened in this thread. 

...and yep, I hate letting go worse than a bulldog hates giving up his bite.




Mr. HE


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## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> :



Really, really? Come on man, you're better than that...


----------



## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> Really, really? Come on man, you're better than that...




I don't view what he said in his second post as a threat. Really! I thought after his second post he clarified what he was getting at. If I am wrong about his intentions then I will delete my "CLAPS" I thought he was offering some sound advice from past experience. 

Just to be clear IF he was "threatening" then NO I do not agree! I don't want to see anything like that happen to ANYBODY.


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> I never quoted you or singled you out, you were the one that stepped up and started the one on one. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just the way it happened in this thread.
> 
> ...and yep, I hate letting go worse than a bulldog hates giving up his bite.
> 
> ...



To be clear I was not "starting a one on one" I was just stating an observation.


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## Brad101 (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Sir's it is sad and not a threat. I had to pay my fines and learned my lesson back in the 70's. It was just a word of warning to Mr blsnelling from one older and wiser
> 
> So who now is the ones twisting things around and taking warnings as threats and sad.
> 
> I was caught without a web trail. Now go back and look at Brad's web trail . It's going to cost some major money in fines if he doesn't have his vendor's license when it happens.



It sure sounded like a threat and your response sounds like a looney that was called out on it.

I also would not use the term "older and wiser" so loosely. I don't think you fooled anyone though. 

And what is all the "Sirs" crap out of you in every post you make anyhow? You sound like some old drunk tryin to talk himself out of trouble with the police, hahaha.


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm confused now, fines, vendor's license, web trail?:monkey: Nevermind I see what's going on, there's always someone who will come and crash a party. 



http://cache0.techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nuclear-bomb-badger350.jpg[/URL]


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## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

I want to know, why no orange and cream pistons?


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## woodgrenade (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I have a question for Mr blsnelling. Have you kept your tax records for filing of taxes you need to pay on your small business for this year in the State of Ohio? Like the rest of us had to in the past in our home states with our small business.
> Other words are you legit and have your vendors license to pay your state and city taxes for work you are sending out of state and out of country? The web trail tells all.
> 
> If not you will be contacted by the Ohio Department of Taxation shortly jmo. Better get things right and in order and get them records straight.



Seems like you have had it out for Brad from the start.



wooddog said:


> I have been reading alot here in the back ground and never posted before. Its cold and snowing, so joined to share on the threads.
> I really liked the stock 200 back when I was working with them,* but you always seem to put down the 200 in my past readings. Now that you have one you seem to talk it up* .
> What kind of gain was seen modding a 200T compared to a stock one with muffler opened? What is your WOT rpm compared to your rpms it will hold in the cut? What do you show for in the cut rpms?


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## Maldeney (Feb 5, 2010)

woodgrenade said:


> Seems like you have had it out for Brad from the start.




Really. I think you may have read into that a little.


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 5, 2010)

Wooddog, grow the :censored: up, you old cull.


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> Really. I think you may have read into that a little.



I think not. He's been on my tail since he joined.


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## Bowtie (Feb 5, 2010)

Jesus H Christ on a rubber crutch, dont you idiots ever let something go?? 


GET A LIFE!!! WE SAID WHAT WE THOUGHT AND NOW ITS TIME TO GET THE HELL OVER IT!!!

I didnt agree with the idea either, and said as much as respectfully as I could, I dont think I offended Brad. I could give a crap less if I offended anyone else.


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## woodgrenade (Feb 5, 2010)

Maldeney said:


> Really. I think you may have read into that a little.



That was just the first of many negative posts by the one who shares the first syllable of my name ........... Sir.....


----------



## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*I dont know about your friends....*



Maldeney said:


> With Respect Stipes if it were a "friendship deal" then there would be no $50 involved. Atleast not with MY friends. It was supposed to be a business deal I think.



Here are hard times,,and to me I'd pay my friend to help me....I'm just that aways....Would I do that for 50 dollars,,hell no...First I dont have the tools,,,and never tryed it...Second with time I have I'd charge alot more..To have friends is to help each other.....Brad helped me in alot of ways and never charged me...I know you dont know him,,but gotta trust me on this...TY for your respect,,and kinda understand where your coming from,,,but this thing I wanna tell people on here...You can get on AS and find out whats happening to your saws and fix it yourself,,and the people I enjoy so much on here shared alot,,or you can take it to a dealer and pay....That is what I mean...people keps blasting on people that wanna help,,soon they will go away like Andy,,and then,,,who can you turn to for help???


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> I could give a crap less if I offended anyone else.



What's a crapless? Do you charge to install them?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Here's your answer in short about all the so called attacking, no one likes to be screwed, got it, its very simple.



Whom has Brad screwed???

I've said this before. What's the end goal here?? 

Are some of you going to start calling the IRS on Brad? Slinging mud like this is going way way over the line. This thread needs to end and the moderators need to delete the entire thread IMHO. If you guys don't stop this nonsense a bunch of members are either going to get banned or just leave altogether. That's what some of you want anyway. 

Tom I've always liked your joking around, and you're probably a nice guy, but in this thread you've gone too far, and you are now growing long in the tooth. IMHO.


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

OK, speak up, or shutup! What do you guys want from me? It's high time a mod stepped in and straightened this mess out. All some of you are doing is looking for a fight. Take it somewhere else where your wanted.


----------



## Meadow Beaver (Feb 5, 2010)

*The guy just has Don Imus syndrome that's all.*


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## Bowtie (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> OK, speak up, or shutup! What do you guys want from me? It's high time a mod stepped in and straightened this mess out. All some of you are doing is looking for a fight. Take it somewhere else where your wanted.



I personally wanna see how the wiseco pistons turn out over time and hard usage. If they hold up, Im gonna be buying some.


----------



## stipes (Feb 5, 2010)

*Me too Bro...*



Bowtie said:


> I personally wanna see how the wiseco pistons turn out over time and hard usage. If they hold up, Im gonna be buying some.



Wanna see how they hold up.....Gonna turn and burn in millin....That will tell the tell....


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 5, 2010)

I would get one if I could afford it, it just too tempting, 1mm rings!


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## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> OK, speak up, or shutup! What do you guys want from me? It's high time a mod stepped in and straightened this mess out. All some of you are doing is looking for a fight. Take it somewhere else where your wanted.



Post some info about the pistons. Weight #1. Differences in configuration from OEM, i.e. window size, ring thickness, crown to first ring groove distance, pin weight, circlip size, etc. 


.


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Post some info about the pistons. Weight #1. Differences in configuration from OEM, i.e. window size, ring thickness, crown to first ring groove distance, pin weight, circlip size, etc.
> 
> 
> .



They're not here yet. Should be on their way today.


----------



## woodgrenade (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> OK, speak up, or shutup! What do you guys want from me? It's high time a mod stepped in and straightened this mess out. All some of you are doing is looking for a fight. Take it somewhere else where your wanted.




You tried your best to ensure that people could get a free piston. Regardless of how you went about it, that was your intent. Plain and simple. 

I think people would only be happy with freebies that they could use at their discretion. The downside to that is there is no way to document usage, have benchmark photos, or have a consistent report about the products. 

How do you fix it? I don't know. Maybe just do the testing yourself on your own saws and post all of your results on this sight for everyone to read and entertain themselves at your expense. 

Doesn't sound right, but I can guarantee that everyone who was bashing you will be reading your post, looking at your pictures, and watching your videos.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> They're not here yet. Should be on their way today.



Thank you.


.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

woodgrenade said:


> Maybe just do the testing yourself on your own saws.



And that's exactly what I'm doing, sans the 440 piston that will go in Stipes milling saw.



woodgrenade said:


> Doesn't sound right, but I can guarantee that everyone who was bashing you will be reading your post, looking at your pictures, and watching your videos.



Isn't that the way it always is:bang:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

woodgrenade said:


> Doesn't sound right, but I can guarantee that everyone who was bashing you will be reading your post, looking at your pictures, and watching your videos.



You bet they will, and I can guarantee they'll be jealous the whole time.lol


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

I got to ask, why is Brad such a sensitive subject? Sheesh, speaking one's mind about him has about the same effect as farting in a room full of nuns.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> You bet they will, and I can guarantee they'll be jealous the whole time.lol






Jealous of what???


.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I got to ask, why is Brad such a sensitive subject? Sheesh, speaking one's mind about him has about the same effect as farting in a room full of nuns.



Now that sounds like fun! Nothing like clearing the whole room:greenchainsaw: Seems to me this is having the opposite affect, drawing all the maggots out of the wood work.


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## Meadow Beaver (Feb 5, 2010)

Jealousy and greed is human nature, we wouldn't have improved anything if everyone was just happy with waht they have, but competition makes the earth go round.


----------



## woodgrenade (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I got to ask, why is Brad such a sensitive subject? Sheesh, speaking one's mind about him has about the same effect as farting in a room full of nuns.



Probably because he posts the best/most pics, vids, and gives great information. Just look at how many people read his posts.


----------



## Freehand (Feb 5, 2010)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RMX8L7Yxyfk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RMX8L7Yxyfk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

woodgrenade said:


> Probably because he posts the best/most pics, vids, and gives great information. Just look at how many people read his posts.



I'm not disputing he posts a lot of neat stuff. But compare with lakeside. He did as well. What's the difference?


----------



## Eric Modell (Feb 5, 2010)

I started a new tread let's try it out.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I'm not disputing he posts a lot of neat stuff. But compare with lakeside. He did as well. What's the difference?



Where is Rex, and what have you done with him?


.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> But compare with lakeside. He did as well. What's the difference?



Nearly everything was stock for Andy. He rarely got outside the box and did much modding. He's definately good at what he does though. No doubt about that.


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Nearly everything was stock for Andy. He rarely got outside the box and did much modding. He's definately good at what he does though. No doubt about that.



What about the muffler sticky? 

I think it's something else.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> What about the muffler sticky?
> 
> I think it's something else.



That was the rarely part, lol.


----------



## 385XP (Feb 5, 2010)

so do you have one of these for a 460?


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 5, 2010)

*Women*

Cripes, I get all these notifications in my 'inbox' that there was more discussion on the Wiseco pistons - then I read through three more pages of back-biting gossiping women. 

Brad, I was a trial attorney for 20 years. The information you received about covering your butt is very valuable. You wouldn't believe some of the bogus insurance claims I have seen in court, or the spurilous claims (settled to just go away and cut the costs), or the lack of 'justice' from a corrupt system.

I remember one ugly case where a fellow lost his home after selling some drug-addled welfare POS a used lawn mower. The POS cut the end of his finger off when he tried to pick the lawn mower up while it was still running. The judge fiddled the oral evidence (7, count them, 7 different stories of how it happened by the POS), discounted all the expert medical and technical evidence, and avoided established law and made up his own legal theory. I gave the judge a bit of a blast as he was leaving the bench and all the liberal-leaning jerk said of the defendant was - "he should have had insurance". 

I had a small business myself and after all my experiences in the legal system, I lived in fear of litigation. 

Yeah, I also look forward to the specs on the pistons compared to a stocker.


----------



## ale (Feb 5, 2010)

I don’t know Brad. Matter of fact, I don’t know anyone on this forum in person. Met a few, real nice folks at a GTG once, hope to again.
I see it like this- the majority of us are here to learn about and share our knowledge about chainsaws. Everyone has their interests, and this is mine. 
I read a lot, work on a few and cut when I can. Brad’s input on here is of value and I’m sure glad he shares. Of all the people on this site, I feel like I know him the most because he shares so much. It takes guts to open your world on the world wide web for all to view and pick apart. It’s a better forum with him here and I’d hate to see him leave. Having a dispute is fine, but attacking one’s character is another. I don’t think he was coming from a bad place when he started this thread. 
Just my take. I’m over it and off to eat supper. My favorite pie is Humble, wish more shared my taste.


----------



## bama (Feb 5, 2010)

ale said:


> I don’t know Brad. Matter of fact, I don’t know anyone on this forum in person. Met a few, real nice folks at a GTG once, hope to again.
> I see it like this- the majority of us are here to learn about and share our knowledge about chainsaws. Everyone has their interests, and this is mine.
> I read a lot, work on a few and cut when I can. Brad’s input on here is of value and I’m sure glad he shares. Of all the people on this site, I feel like I know him the most because he shares so much. It takes guts to open your world on the world wide web for all to view and pick apart. It’s a better forum with him here and I’d hate to see him leave. Having a dispute is fine, but attacking one’s character is another. I don’t think he was coming from a bad place when he started this thread.
> Just my take. I’m over it and off to eat supper. My favorite pie is Humble, wish more shared my taste.



Nice post. Ran out of rep or you'd get some.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Jealous of what???
> 
> 
> .



The fact that Baileys sends him stuff to tryout and or test. The guys at Race Saws were about to boycott Baileys because of this.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> But compare with lakeside. He did as well. What's the difference?



Lakeside is no longer posting on the site, as far as I know. Are you happy now Space?lol


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 5, 2010)

Wow... that's all, just wow.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Wow... that's all, just wow.



Hi Ian! How's that new camera? I just picked up a 7D myself. It's not like I'm going to derail this thread or anything


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> The fact that Baileys sends him stuff to tryout and or test. The guys at Race Saws were about to boycott Baileys because of this.



I'm not jealous.

Boycott Baileys over Brad Snelling?:hmm3grin2orange:

Baileys sent the parts out pro bono publico, maybe Brad should have offered the same of his labor and pay it forward. How would this thread have turned out if that had been the case?


.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Baileys sent the parts out pro bono publico, maybe Brad should have offered the same of his labor and pay it forward.



I'm not that generous. After all, you know I'm in this to get rich, lol! Just think of all the saws I could have bought with the $200 I made installing 4 pistons!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> I'm not jealous.
> 
> Boycott Baileys over Brad Snelling?:hmm3grin2orange:.



Yup about a year ago, it had to do with the 7900 big bore kit.lol

Never thought you were jealous, you don't seem that way.



Tzed250 said:


> How would this thread have turned out if that had been the



Yes things would have been better, but this thread became absurd and is now waste of space IMHO.


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 5, 2010)

Brad, you should set up a "frustration wall" in your new office, that way when the PMS posts here get to you, you can punch a hole in it without wrecking all the nice work you have done. Just make sure you space the studs wide, don't want to see any broken knuckles!


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> Brad, you should set up a "frustration wall" in your new office, that way when the PMS posts here get to you, you can punch a hole in it without wrecking all the nice work you have done. Just make sure you space the studs wide, don't want to see any broken knuckles!



Hey Walt, I have one of those, lol. Check out this clip at 0:42.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zBWoOhyI6WE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zBWoOhyI6WE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

wi50 said:


> Brad offered to so something for several in line who may benifit, may not. customer, Baileys, etc.
> 
> Now he's the bad guy? Yes maybe things should have been thought through a bit but I'm certain his intentions were made of good heart. Maybe several valid points were not thought of or approched in a proper manner, but it's only his problem and not yours.
> 
> ...



+1:agree2:


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

stipes said:


> Anyone that meet me at a GTG knows I'm a pretty laid back,,quiet type person.....Everytime I go to a GTG see all kinda stuff I never imagined....I would love to see alot of people on AS I never meet at diffrent GTG's as well...It's just a love I have for alot of people on here.........
> All I ever used was Mcc's and the 028 super ....I thought I would buy me a new saw,,and went and got a Stihl 210 and first thing I had trouble with it...I did a search and found AS and joined and posted I had trouble with it in the idle,,new saw,,,me being proud didnt wanna take it back cause it might be something simple and it was....
> Then I kept readin and bought my 440 used from the PNW...My 260 pro new cause I wanted a smaller saw that was lighter limbin with...They had a raffle on AS and I won the 346xp on my birthday and I always was hardcore Mcc. Stihl fan ,, I hated Husky's,,,you can read in my early posts I made fun of the primer bulbs on them,,,I said,,and you can read back,,I said primer bulbs suppose to be on weed wackers,,not saws,,, till I ran this one the first time...What a dumbass I was....
> I would have never got into millin if I never found this site,,and in the milling section,,yeah,,,damn good folks on there...They wanna share everything they know....You dont read anyone slammin anyone in the millin section,,cause they wanna help each other...It's like I remember Gink had this Idea and his fixture he made for millin,,,well it turned out to work good....He had alot of input into it,,but all to help out,,and we was all curious to see how it would work..At the GTG he tryed it for the first time..We all had a fun time watchin him and all the hard work he put into his idea...It did work good folks.......
> ...



This is by far the best post I have read on Arborist site In weeks, I wish I was not out of Ammo I would love to rep you


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> This is by far the best post I have read on Arborist site In weeks, I wish I was not out of Ammo I would love to rep you



Jesse's a hell of a guy Marko, I consider him a friend.


----------



## Arrowhead (Feb 5, 2010)

With no offense to Brad or Baileys, I believe this whole piston thing is for publicity. Lets face it, Brad is posting on here everyday. He makes good videos. Baileys is a business, businesses like to make money. Give Brad a piston, he puts it in a saw, the saw runs fine, 10,000 people on here will think he is a god.(again no offense, but you know its true). Suddenly hundreds of people call Baileys to order Wiseco pistons. Anybody that thinks that Wiseco has not already done extensive testing and knows how these will perform is just plain crazy. The aftermarket BB kits have been getting slammed here lately. Now there is a alternative to OEM or China. Baileys has to get the word out on these. What better way than to give a few pistons to one of the most _followed_ members of AS. The idea of somebody wanting to test a piston on a PERFECT saw was a little nuts. I still think if someone close to him(no shipping) had a saw in NEED of a piston, its a fair deal. I do not see anything wrong with charging $50 for the install. To some people that are not mechanically inclined, that may be great to them. Most of you should know I'm not one of Brads "leg humpers". I will say his idea was not thought out properly, but I'm also confident he was/is not out to screw anybody. Sooner or later everybody makes a "not thought-out post" that they regret. I started the e-bay bad seller thread, It seemed like a good idea at the time. WRONG! It was a bad idea, and I regret starting it! :bang:


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 5, 2010)

The mean comments on this thread make me glad I am safe in my fort I made from couch cushions. Seriously guys, can't we disagree in a more civilized manner?


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Hi Ian! How's that new camera? I just picked up a 7D myself. It's not like I'm going to derail this thread or anything



A shot through the dining room window and another of the base of a lens. --Ian


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Whom has Brad screwed???
> 
> I've said this before. What's the end goal here??
> 
> ...



Andy that post is too funny. 

You gotta make up your mind, if you want this thread to stop you can't be saying that and then turning around in the very same post and call someone out. Now whats it gonna be, you want it to stop or do you want me to answer your call out, either way is fine with me. In case you haven't noticed I haven't said hardly anything all day. I thought I was done last nite but a slur came my way this morning, I responded, then Brad responded, I responded back to Brad and thats been about it for today. Now your calling me out with your IMHO, well now I'm willing to give you my IMHO if you want to keep the thread going, make up your mind will ya. If you really want this thread to stop say nothing, see how easy that is, no need to reply,


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

So basically, what you're saying, is that it can end as long as you get the last word?:greenchainsaw:


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> So basically, what you're saying, is that it can end as long as you get the last word?:greenchainsaw:



No Brad, I was answering his two part post. He seemed to be saying he wanted it to end and then he turned around and said more to keep it going. I'm confused,LOL


----------



## PogoInTheWoods (Feb 5, 2010)

350 posts on this subject? (and counting?)

Huh?

Seems like Bailey's and Snelling got exactly what they wanted -- and exposed
themselves and all the rest of ya for what that's all worth, too. 

Very revealing thread all the way around without providing any substantive information about anything except everyone's attitudes and opinions about
a bunch of useless schmooze factor and border skirmish wank.

Can I hear 50 bux for post number 400 to the '"highest bidder?"

Don't you folks have wood ta cut, or a basement to refinish, or a boatload of
crow to eat?

Yep. We're our own enemy every chance we give ourselves. If this thread
doesn't prove it, I'm sure some zealot know it all will start another one just for good measure.

Geezus, gang.

I'm ashamed to even be responding to such sophomoric nonsense, but it has affected my AS experience in a not so positive way and I presumably have a
right to convey my displeasure about it.

I still need someone to pay me fifty bux to send me some p and c kits for
a coupla blown up 026's and haven't had any takers yet.

Whaddya say Bailey's? Snelling? Anyone?

Didn't think so.


----------



## aa1putt (Feb 5, 2010)

shouldn't this be moved to the testing new forged WISECO piston forum? I spent way too much time in the middle of this thread. Pretty pathetic. Must be Friday night. I heard Timken is coming out with new forged muffler bearings in an attempt to bring jobs back to OHIO.


----------



## flyboy (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Brad I am not bored at all, in fact I'm quite frisky. All I have done is called you out on that insane offer you put up. No your not in the mood and I know and you know why. Since I am so frisky I'll ask you one simple question, you answer it honestly and I won't bother you at all. What makes you quailfied to test a piston, anything, you got some background, some factory knowledge, a certification by a piston manufacture, have you got anything to show us your testing methods are the approved standard? Answer yes or no, if the answer is yes, please come forward and explain, if the answer is no thats fine too but its only fair your customers know your certifications in the testing feild.



As far as I can tell, Brad isn't testing them....he is just installing them in a consistent manner. The people running them in the real world are testing them.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

Oh a slur brought you back

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe you didn't come back because today wasn't a turkey shoot. Today the bullies got called out.

The more mud you throw, the lower you sink. You are now in confederacy with the likes of the guy who alluded to calling on the revenuers. You threaten keeping this thread going thats fine with me, lets see how low you all can sink


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> Oh a slur brought you back
> 
> If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe you didn't come back because today wasn't a turkey shoot. Today the bullies got called out.
> 
> The more mud you throw, the lower you sink. You are now in confederacy with the likes of the guy who alluded to calling on the revenuers. You threaten keeping this thread going thats fine with me, lets see how low you all can sink



Apparently you didn't get the memo speedy, they want this thread to stop, I guess you want to keep it going, is that correct?


----------



## Freehand (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## JPeterson09 (Feb 5, 2010)

Can you guys finish this on Facebook? Soap operas are appreciated more over there.


----------



## spike60 (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> OK, speak up, or shutup! What do you guys want from me? It's high time a mod stepped in and straightened this mess out. All some of you are doing is looking for a fight. Take it somewhere else where your wanted.



Brad, my recomendation is that you disengage. This sorry thread will never die if you continue posting. If you stop, it will fade out by tomorrow. If you keep posting, your just exposing yourself to needless "incoming fire", and this thing will be well past 500 posts before the end of the weekend. I know that this thread keeps you on the front page, but geez you can't be enjoying this experience, can you? 

I sensed from the get-go that this idea could blow up in your face, but I thought a saw might have to blow up first. Maybe it's better that the whole thing grenaded sooner, rather than later anyway. If anything went wrong with any of the test saws, it was going to come back to you. Whether it was the piston's fault, an air leak, bad gas, dirty wood, a full moon, bad music on the radio, it would have been your fault. It would be, "Hey Brad, my saw quit, what are YOU gonna do?" And it no doubt would have been played out here on the open forum just like we are seeing now, perhaps even nastier. I think that the $50 thing probably set a few guys off more that you expected. If they were being asked to put their saw on the line, and pay the shipping, then you should have been willing to donate your time to pop the piston in there. People get funny when they think someone else is "making money".

There have been some contentious threads on here before, but I'm kind of surprised at how personal and vicious this one has gotten. I still think the original idea was a horrible one, for the reasons I stated many pages ago. But I was blasting the idea itself, not Brad. And I didn't think that just by reading his posts, that I was able to read his mind, and come up with some kind of ulterior motive for what he was doing. 

We need to move on guys.

Brad; lead the way.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Apparently you didn't get the memo speedy, they want this thread to stop, I guess you want to keep it going, is that correct?



Old darling I did read it word for word. I just might surprise you with what I retained from reading this thread

Like you said yesterday "Have a seat ole boy, this one is gonna get ripe and fun,hehe"

Nobody here speaks for anyone else, we are all grown men and we are all accountable for what we say and what we condone. If some people want things to stop before they get any worse, I can't blame them for being more peaceable than I am feeling. Like you said yesterday "I am not bored at all I am feeling quite frisky"


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> Old darling I did read it word for word. I just might suprise you with what I retained from reading this post
> 
> Like you said yesterday "Have a seat ole boy, this one is gonna get ripe and fun,hehe"
> 
> *Nobody here speaks for anyone else,* we are all grown men and we are all accountable for what we say and what we condone. If some people want things to stop before they get any worse, I can't blame them for being more peaceable than I am feeling. Like you said yesterday "I am not bored at all I am feeling quite frisky"



Well listen up little Sugar Plum, if you got the memo what is there not to understand. See that highlighted area there, yeah those dark black words, you see them, try abiding by them. This thread really has nothing to do with you in case you was wondering. Funny you write nobody here speaks for anyone else and yet thats all you been doing. Now it appears you got a hard on for me, thats too bad, scratch your chin and get over it, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 5, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Brad, my recomendation is that you disengage. This sorry thread will never die if you continue posting. If you stop, it will fade out by tomorrow. If you keep posting, your just exposing yourself to needless "incoming fire", and this thing will be well past 500 posts before the end of the weekend. I know that this thread keeps you on the front page, but geez you can't be enjoying this experience, can you?
> 
> I sensed from the get-go that this idea could blow up in your face, but I thought a saw might have to blow up first. Maybe it's better that the whole thing grenaded sooner, rather than later anyway. If anything went wrong with any of the test saws, it was going to come back to you. Whether it was the piston's fault, an air leak, bad gas, dirty wood, a full moon, bad music on the radio, it would have been your fault. It would be, "Hey Brad, my saw quit, what are YOU gonna do?" And it no doubt would have been played out here on the open forum just like we are seeing now, perhaps even nastier. I think that the $50 thing probably set a few guys off more that you expected. If they were being asked to put their saw on the line, and pay the shipping, then you should have been willing to donate your time to pop the piston in there. People get funny when they think someone else is "making money".
> 
> ...



+1 I have nothing against Brad at all. The 50 dollar installation irked me, but after further thought, I can understand. My problem is I dont really pay myself much labor when I work on someone's saw.

At this point Im more interested in how the pistons fare. The idiots slinging feces from both sides of the dispute need to can it. All the relative info has been stated.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Well listen up little Sugar Plum, if you got the memo what is there not to understand. See that highlighted area there, yeah those dark black words, you see them, try abiding by them. This thread really has nothing to do with you in case you was wondering. Funny you write nobody here speaks for anyone else and yet thats all you been doing. Now it appears you got a hard on for me, thats too bad, scratch your chin and get over it, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:





Frankly the thread has nothing to do with you either, but you sure have a strong opinion about it. 



Mr. HE


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Well listen up little Sugar Plum, if you got the memo what is there not to understand. See that highlighted area there, yeah those dark black words, you see them, try abiding by them. This thread really has nothing to do with you in case you was wondering. Funny you write nobody here speaks for anyone else and yet thats all you been doing. Now it appears you got a hard on for me, thats too bad, scratch your chin and get over it, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Oh I see now it isn't any of my business and has nothing to do with me; this is your private and personal internet that Al Gore invented just for you just so you can call people swindlers and so your lackies can threaten to call the tax man. my mistake.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods (Feb 5, 2010)

spike60 said:


> Brad, my recomendation is that you disengage.
> We need to move on guys.
> Brad; lead the way.



Outstanding.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Frankly the thread has nothing to do with you either, but you sure have a strong opinion about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Hey thats a good point. But wait, how bout you? Yeah I got a strong opinion but thats just me. I speak for me, I don't need anyone in my corner..


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> Oh I see now it isn't any of my business and has nothing to do with me; this is your private and personal internet that Al Gore invented just for you just so you can call people swindlers and so your lackies can threaten to call the tax man. my mistake.



Did I call you a swindler? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh excuse me, you must be speaking for someone else, why I thought you just wrote nobody speaks for anyone, didn't I just highlight that for you. Fact is you wanna play, come on, admits it?


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

Did you hear about the saw man who bit his wiener off too short and didn't have enough left to fill a bun?


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 5, 2010)

I think I have an old set of dueling flintlock pistols around here somewhere. I'd loan them to you guys but I'm guessing we'd have a three day argument on how many paces, 457 different opinions on how much powder to use, a week long debate on wadding and bullet selection, continued disagreement on location and time...


----------



## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> The fact that Baileys sends him stuff to tryout and or test. The guys at Race Saws were about to boycott Baileys because of this.




Well Sir I did a search for this other forum you posted. Thank you, that site has a lot more reading on porting then I could read in a lifetime or comprehend.

From reading over there they have already been running wiseco pistons for years in saws and Bailey's has sent out wiseco stock replacement pistons to the end users, as should have been done over here. No $50 charge or anything, no shipping back and forth. Sent straight to the end users without any hype the way it should be.  

Seems like Bailey's helps them guys out pretty good over there too, no such boycott you speak of. 

Thanks again for the lead that there was other chainsaw forums out there to read at Andyshine77


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Hey thats a good point. But wait, how bout you? Yeah I got a strong opinion but thats just me. I speak for me, I don't need anyone in my corner..





Well, just so long as you understand that. (I suspected you might.)

We fall on opposite sides of this. I really don't like how you have handled it, I think it was rather small of you. But that is just my own personal opinion, which goes without saying. 


Many people don't like what I've said, simple joy of living in a free country.

We can all make our guesses about what motivates others, I've got mine, you've got yours, but at the end we don't really know. 



Mr. HE


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 5, 2010)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:........ .......


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Hey thats a good point. But wait, how bout you? Yeah I got a strong opinion but thats just me. I speak for me, I don't need anyone in my corner..



The trouble is you have idiots in your corner and a man is known by his company



THALL10326 said:


> Did I call you a swindler? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh excuse me, you must be speaking for someone else, why I thought you just wrote nobody speaks for anyone,


Yes you have spun me up completely in a terrible contradiction. Because you never called me a swindler I have no right to interfere with your internets or make any comment on your wild accusations.[/QUOTE]



THALL10326 said:


> didn't I just highlight that for you.


yes it was a brilliant display of your internet prowess



THALL10326 said:


> Fact is you wanna play, come on, admits it?



 I'm your huckleberry


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Well Sir I did a search for this other forum you posted. Thank you, that site has a lot more reading on porting then I could read in a lifetime or comprehend.
> 
> From reading over there they have already been running wiseco pistons for years in saws and Bailey's has sent out wiseco stock replacement pistons to the end users, as should have been done over here. No $50 charge or anything, no shipping back and forth. Sent straight to the end users without any hype the way it should be.
> 
> ...






Boy that is a very telling post. You have to be a member over there to read threads and registration is disabled right now....



Hmmmm....



Mr. HE


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Boy that is a very telling post. You have to be a member over there to read threads and registration is disabled right now....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why its almost as if you caught sir in a lie


----------



## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Boy that is a very telling post. You have to be a member over there to read threads and registration is disabled right now....
> 
> Hmmmm....
> 
> Mr. HE



Tell what. Hit register answer questions and I was accepted a hour or so ago. Very simple Sir, follow instructions for membership and you are in. Just like that.

Where do you get it is disabled LMAO. You ever thought just maybe they don't wont someone like you reading over there  

I found 4 more forums in that search is that a bad thing? Guess what they wasn't disabled either and I am in on all of them now too. 

Live in your fantasy of thinking you know everything. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 5, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> A shot through the dining room window and another of the base of a lens. --Ian





> Hey, nice pics Ian.



thanks.. I ordered an 8x10 print of the bird to see how it would turn out.


----------



## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Hey, nice pics Ian. They turned out nice.
> 
> thanks.. I ordered an 8x10 print of the bird to see how it would turn out.



Beautiful picture and something about the depth and detail of the picture is astounding.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 5, 2010)

Brad-

If you still need a 372 cylinder, I have a new Mahle 50mm cylinder you can have. It was on a short block that was damaged in shipping, so it lost part of a couple of the top fins, nothing major. It had only been started at the factory. I can send it Monday via priority mail.



FATGUY said:


> and then we all sit around wondering why helpful people leave the site....



I'm still here... you're still here... Brad's still here... a bunch of other really cool people are still here.



Terry Syd said:


> I'll bet I could get into such a piston with a Dremel and lighten it up a bunch. The area above the pin boss is one such area on forged pistons, also reducing the thickness of the skirts in the middle and leaving a bit more around the edges, along with removing any sharp edges or corners - might even end up lighter than stock as the forged alloy is stronger than cast.



I put a 56mm bike piston in a Jonsered 2095 years ago. It was a nightmare from the start. It was a piston designed for a bike, not a chainsaw. I had to use a custom wrist pin bearing and I spent three hours hand shaping and profiling the piston. I had to take a bunch of material off the inside and relieve several areas that I knew would expand too much. In the end, the saw ran good but not enough more than what the stock piston would have provided to warrant all the work and trouble that went into it. Hopefully these pistons designed for saws are a much better end result.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> The trouble is you have idiots in your corner and a man is known by his company
> 
> 
> Yes you have spun me up completely in a terrible contradiction. Because you never called me a swindler I have no right to interfere with your internets or make any comment on your wild accusations.




yes it was a brilliant display of your internet prowess



 I'm your huckleberry[/QUOTE]

Now you posted all that forwhat. I have idiots in my corner, where, I don't see anyone speaking for me, do you? Your not my huckleberry, maybe the ones you speak for but not me. I told you they wanted this thread to stop, they, meaning them, not me. I was all for it. You chose to keep it going, not me, I've been merely replying to you, not the other way round. If your done I'm done too, deal?


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Tell what. Hit register answer questions and I was accepted a hour or so ago. Very simple Sir, follow instructions for membership and you are in. Just like that.
> 
> Where do you get it is disabled LMAO. You ever thought just maybe they don't wont someone like you reading over there
> 
> ...




That could be. I first tried to register there over two years ago and it said registration was disabled at that time. I've checked back every so often and sent a few emails that have gone unanswered.

If they don't want me that is their loss.



Mr. HE


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Now you posted all that forwhat. I have idiots in my corner, where, I don't see anyone speaking for me, do you? Your not my huckleberry, maybe the ones you speak for but not me. I told you they wanted this thread to stop, they, meaning them, not me. I was all for it. You chose to keep it going, not me, I've been merely replying to you, not the other way round. If your done I'm done too, deal?



"I know you may think I'm being mean and orenry to you about all this but I'm not. I'm being honest and you should be too. I see you have changed your mind on the whole idea and thats good." 


I'm fine with stoping


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

Whatever happened to Woodie? He'd fix you chumps up good.


----------



## edisto (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Boy that is a very telling post. You have to be a member over there to read threads and registration is disabled right now....



The clot thickens...


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

edisto said:


> The clot thickens...




Well, he might be right, it might just be me. But I thought of that, couldn't think why, just didn't know. So I've tried from other computers in other states and still got the registration disabled message. 

Maybe they have opened it up again. I still get the message and I tried just tonight. Otherwise it seems they know more about me and what I'm going to try than I know about myself. 

My wife probably keeps them informed so I won't spend any more time on chainsaws. lol



Mr. HE


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Well Sir I did a search for this other forum you posted. Thank you, that site has a lot more reading on porting then I could read in a lifetime or comprehend.
> 
> From reading over there they have already been running wiseco pistons for years in saws and Bailey's has sent out wiseco stock replacement pistons to the end users, as should have been done over here. No $50 charge or anything, no shipping back and forth. Sent straight to the end users without any hype the way it should be.
> 
> ...



LOL you've been a Race Saw member for a long time now, don't even try and deny that. I know who you are. You're a :monkey:


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> "I know you may think I'm being mean and orenry to you about all this but I'm not. I'm being honest and you should be too. I see you have changed your mind on the whole idea and thats good."
> 
> 
> I'm fine with stoping



LOL, okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> LOL you've been a Race Saw member for a long time now, don't even try and deny that. I know who you are. You're a :monkey:





My spidey senses were telling me that was the case.

Guess I do know everything! lol



Mr. HE


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Tell what. Hit register answer questions and I was accepted a hour or so ago. Very simple Sir, follow instructions for membership and you are in. Just like that.
> 
> Where do you get it is disabled LMAO. You ever thought just maybe they don't wont someone like you reading over there
> 
> ...



Very Simple indeed sir


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 5, 2010)

Just so you guys know a lot of the trouble on this sit is caused by a group of guys that have nothing better to do, than to try and discredit anyone who challenges them. BTW most of them have been booted from this site for the obvious reasons. 

If they keep this up sooner or later somewone is going to take legal action against them as this amounts to slander and defamation of character.


----------



## Wildman1024 (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm sure the intentions were good! It's a shame it was misrepresented and or misunderstood! 

In my eyes your all a bunch of great guys and its a shame to see this kind of petty crap happen. We need to try and get along better for 2010...I mean really, we are all saw buffs here!

Brad you have brought alot of good here...just think before you post!


End Rant!


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 5, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Whatever happened to Woodie? He'd fix you chumps up good.



Woodie was cool. He doesn't post much anymore but man when he did it was fun. We fought like cats and dogs on here Space but what no one knew is he called the shop now and then and we had a good laff about it.


----------



## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

You guys believe what you want and maybe your fantasy may come true when you wake Sir's. The site's in question were not disabled early today. 
I don't care what you see now.  Investigate a little more and you might find out I don't live near you or in Ohio  

All I know is I have 4 more forums to read at now. Thanks Andyshine77 :yourock:


----------



## Saw Dr. (Feb 5, 2010)

Just to make it official.


----------



## Jtheo (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I have a question for Mr blsnelling. Have you kept your tax records for filing of taxes you need to pay on your small business for this year in the State of Ohio? Like the rest of us had to in the past in our home states with our small business.
> Other words are you legit and have your vendors license to pay your state and city taxes for work you are sending out of state and out of country? The web trail tells all.
> 
> If not you will be contacted by the Ohio Department of Taxation shortly jmo. Better get things right and in order and get them records straight.



Your statement is not chain saw related, and how is Brad's taxes any of your business anyway? JMO


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

wooddog said:


> You guys believe what you want and maybe your fantasy may come true when you wake Sir's. The site's in question were not disabled early today.
> I don't care what you see now.  Investigate a little more and you might find out I dont live in Ohio
> 
> All I know is I have 4 more forums to read at now. Thanks Andyshine77 :yourock:





Well, baring any better evidence than I have now what I believe is that you are being dishonest about when you became a member over there. 

I don't know why you would do that, if you like the site that is ok by me. I've heard there is a lot of knowledge there, heck, that is why I wanted to join, I'm always eager to learn what I can.

But why lie about being a member?

One thing I hate is how that forum seems to be at the bottom of so much contention here. Many guys can leave it at the door and participate at both sites. There are a few that can't seem to let each site be its own entity. They need to quit with the grudges or whatever it is that motivates them.



Mr. HE


----------



## edisto (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Well, he might be right, it might just be me. But I thought of that, couldn't think why, just didn't know. So I've tried from other computers in other states and still got the registration disabled message.
> 
> Maybe they have opened it up again. I still get the message and I tried just tonight. Otherwise it seems they know more about me and what I'm going to try than I know about myself.



Actually, I read your post 30 seconds after getting the registration disabled message myself.

I thought it was "just me" as well until I read that!


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2010)

400. What do I win? Sorry Spike. I was trying to lead the way and just couldn't resist the opportunity here


----------



## wooddog (Feb 5, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Well, baring any better evidence than I have now what I believe is that you are being dishonest about when you became a member over there.
> 
> I don't know why you would do that, if you like the site that is ok by me. I've heard there is a lot of knowledge there, heck, that is why I wanted to join, I'm always eager to learn what I can.
> 
> ...



Sir this is about the best post I have read from you. 

I have nothing to hide from reading on forums. I speak my peace and the :censored: ants don't like me because of it. 

I found some new sites due to this thread. Is that bad? I enjoy reading about chainsaws and people working with them as I did once. That's all.

Good night all  See you tomorrow, If God allows me to wake another day. To have fun reading and sparing with you guys.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 5, 2010)

Jtheo said:


> Your statement is not chain saw related, and how is Brad's taxes any of your business anyway? JMO



Why didn't you know it he is a revenuer. Now Wood, you woudn't identify yourself in the last picture but is that you tipping the barrel? Btw why is that policeman in the background staring at your hind quarters? what kind of mischief goes on at that other site


----------



## edisto (Feb 5, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> 400. What do I win? Sorry Spike. I was trying to lead the way and just couldn't resist the opportunity here



A free piston! Just send me your saw, $50, and return shipping fees.






Sorry Brad...couldn't resist that one.


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

Hi evferyone, I;m drunk and ready to scrap; any takers?


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

wjers thqt mangy lumber mutt at?


----------



## edisto (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> wjers thqt mangy lumber mutt at?



That's "sir" mangy lumber rat to you...


----------



## pinemartin (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> Hi evferyone, I;m drunk and ready to scrap; any takers?



Lets go then! What do you want to fight about?


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't think they put enough mac sauce in the big mac wraps, or the big mac, and I blame you pinemartin


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 5, 2010)

I think the earth is really flat, this round earth thing is just too complicated.



Mr. HE


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

hold on, nobody go anywhere, I gotta go pee.


----------



## pinemartin (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> I don't think they put enough mac sauce in the big mac wraps, or the big mac, and I blame you pinemartin



Find something else, I agree that the Mac wraps are dry cuz there isn't enough sauce and what they do put on there is sucked up by the shell.


----------



## edisto (Feb 5, 2010)

Someone actually eats those things?


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 5, 2010)

alright, I don't like the fact that there's not the same number of hot dogs in a pack as there are buns......And I'm not afraid to say it! Take that!


----------



## spacemule (Feb 5, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> alright, I don't like the fact that there's not the same number of hot dogs in a pack as there are buns......And I'm not afraid to say it! Take that!



Just buy 3 of the 16oz packages and 2 packages of buns, or 6 of the 12 oz packages and 5 packages of buns. Easy peasy.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> alright, I don't like the fact that there's not the same number of hot dogs in a pack as there are buns......And I'm not afraid to say it! Take that!





It is a way to swindle money out of us in a marketing scheme that was poorly thought out. lol


Mr. HE


----------



## pinemartin (Feb 6, 2010)

That Sir I take great offense to. Now excuse me I have to find a leather glove to properly challenge you to a duel.


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

pinemartin said:


> That Sir I take great offense to. Now excuse me I have to find a leather glove to properly challenge you to a duel.



while you're up, mind grabbing me another beer? Crap, I gotta pee again, nevermind


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> 400. What do I win? Sorry Spike. I was trying to lead the way and just couldn't resist the opportunity here



Well if I'm not mistaken, if you survive the firing squad your free to go.lol It looks like you're still standing, even after they opened up on you, so it looks like you're the real man of stihl.:lifter:


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

ok, I'm back.... was my alter ego here at all?


----------



## pinemartin (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> while you're up, mind grabbing me another beer? Crap, I gotta pee again, nevermind



Nope I gave up beer. Too expensive for what you get, I had to go harder. OH and you don't pee as much drinking long islands.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Well if I'm not mistaken, if you survive the firing squad your free to go.lol It looks like you're still standing, even after they opened up on you, so it looks like you're the real man of stihl.:lifter:



No one gets out of here alive.


----------



## brncreeper (Feb 6, 2010)

Pretty long winded thread. Didn't Anthony Hopkins cast his own pistons to avoid threads like this?:monkey:

Now, where can I buy a Yamaha TZ250?:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Good night all  See you tomorrow, If God allows me to wake another day. To have fun reading and sparing with you guys.



cut and run for fun?


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

I really like chainsaws


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> cut and run for fun?


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> Hi evferyone, I;m drunk and ready to scrap; any takers?



Been sober once or twice over the last 35 years, it's highly over rated.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> I really like chainsaws



How much do you like them?


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Been sober once or twice over the last 35 years, it's highly over rated.



you poor guy, what happened? two times?


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> you poor guy, what happened? two times?



Thought I needed a change. Apparently I was mistaken.


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> How much do you like them?



almost as much as I'm gonna like watching Mrs. FATGUY shovel this wet snow...


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Been sober once or twice over the last 35 years, it's highly over rated.



Poor guy, I'd rep you if I could.:yourock:


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Thought I needed a change. Apparently I was mistaken.



Good God man, be more careful!


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> almost as much as I'm gonna like watching Mrs. FATGUY shovel this wet snow...





Calling Tommy Hall Mrs. FATGUY is really funny.:greenchainsaw:



Mr. HE


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> almost as much as I'm gonna like watching Mrs. FATGUY shovel this wet snow...



That's cool, as long as you're not watching her from your bead room with the light off.:jawdrop:


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> Good God man, be more careful!



Hey little brother, I retired from a chug team unbeaten, after almost the same amount of time. Might give you a run for the money, maybe not.


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Hey little brother, I retired from a chug team unbeaten, after almost the same amount of time. Might give you a run for the money, maybe not.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Hey little brother, I retired from a chug team unbeaten, after almost the same amount of time. Might give you a run for the money, maybe not.





FATGUY said:


>



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmKSf78baLo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmKSf78baLo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmKSf78baLo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></><embed ="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmKSf78baLo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



Saw that, impressed yes and the reason for the post, unbeatable, not hardly.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> thanks.. I ordered an 8x10 print of the bird to see how it would turn out.



Here's the 11th picture I shot playing with the new camera.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

Here's a couple more.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the 11th picture I shot playing with the new camera.



Beautiful camera work and cat. Just got a new Bengal, will have to post some pictures soon........


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Beautiful camera work and cat. Just got a new Bengal, will have to post some pictures soon........



Bengals are as about as costly as the chainsaw habit, at least here anyways...

I'd like to get a "fishing" cat.

http://www.hemmy.net/2007/10/21/extreme-pets-fishing-cat/


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## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Bengals are as about as costly as the chainsaw habit, at least here anyways...
> 
> I'd like to get a "fishing" cat.



Thanks for the reminder! LOL!!
J


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## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Beautiful camera work and cat. Just got a new Bengal, will have to post some pictures soon........



The lava lamp doesn't show off the resolution of the camera, but I though they were neat all the same.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

And since I'm sure you all thought I had forgotten I had a basement project, I got another 9 1/2' framed up tonight. I hurt my back last Saturday, so this is the first I've worked on it.


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## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The lava lamp doesn't show off the resolution of the camera, but I though they were neat all the same.



BTW, beautiful child also, must take after mother.


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## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> BTW, beautiful child also, must take after mother.



Yes indeed


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Yes indeed



Good job man! That's what it is really all about.


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## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

bigbore577 said:


> good job man! That's what it is really all about.



+1,


----------



## parrisw (Feb 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Tell what. Hit register answer questions and I was accepted a hour or so ago. Very simple Sir, follow instructions for membership and you are in. Just like that.
> 
> Where do you get it is disabled LMAO. You ever thought just maybe they don't wont someone like you reading over there
> 
> ...



New membership over there, must go through moderation right now. So?? Tell the truth.


----------



## Brad101 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmKSf78baLo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JmKSf78baLo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



Is that Tank Abbot setting there?


----------



## Old51AVE (Feb 6, 2010)

<object width="320" height="265"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKhEw7nD9C4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKhEw7nD9C4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="265"></embed></object>

Old51AVE :greenchainsaw:


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## MCW (Feb 6, 2010)

Brad101 said:


> Is that Tank Abbot setting there?



I reckon you're right  Good ol' Tank...


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the 11th picture I shot playing with the new camera.









.


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## trimmmed (Feb 6, 2010)

*Wow!*

Well, what actually happened here? It looks like Brad got or is getting some pistons from Bailey's to check out and since he does not have all those saws in unmodded form, he posts an offer to put them in members saws for $50. That, to me, seems like a fair proposal. Shipping costs now, before, and forever are tough crap. Shipping saws is not cheap, never has been. That cost is part of doing business on the web. Is Brad ripping anyone off here? Hardly. The pistons are his to do with what he wants. He could just stick them on ebay and get more than 50 bucks with a whole lot less effort.

The offer was, $50 to supply and install a new wiseco piston in your saw. The presentation may not have been perfect, the only problem I see is asking for a perfect running saw. Although I certainly can see what he meant, he did not want to have to resuscitate some basket case as well as putting in a piston. If that was worded better, it would not have been a problem. 
It was a simple offer imo, for the reasons I stated and I would encourage those that were interested in it to take him up on it. Even without the free piston, $50 for taking your saw apart and putting it back together along with both sending and receiving shipping, pm's, re-tuning etc, is a freaking bargain. Throw in a wiseco piston and well, c'mon, how's that make him some type of crook.

Take the offer or not. That's all it was, an offer.


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## Wild Knight (Feb 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Well Sir I did a search for this other forum you posted. Thank you, that site has a lot more reading on porting then I could read in a lifetime or comprehend.
> 
> Thanks again for the lead that there was other chainsaw forums out there to read at Andyshine77





Yep, you sir are a dishonest fellow. There is absolutely no way you registered recently. 

I am a chainsaw enthusiast. After other members here found I really wanted to learn, they suggested a few other forums to read. One of them was 'that other site'. I tried getting on there back in August. I tried quite a few aliases from August through the end of September trying to get on, but the admin never activated the accounts. In fact, the admins didn't even have the decency to return a polite email to me. Then sometime in October, they shut down registration altogether. I put a shortcut link to their site on my browser and have checked it at least twice a week since then and the registration is still closed. 

I guess you can say you never said you registered for 'that other site', we just assumed we knew "the site" you were referring. I say bogus; you were implying 'that other site', and that site has been locked up tighter than a drum for months. 

(FWIW, you can't type the name of the other site or it gets xxxxx'd out, so I can't be any more specific than 'that other site')


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## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

no worries WK. I suspect he's guilty of double identity too. Check out AS username Teslahole.....
(which is actually hilarious, but a no no none the less)


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## Wild Knight (Feb 6, 2010)

So, this isn't you?


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## weimedog (Feb 6, 2010)

trimmmed said:


> Well, what actually happened here? It looks like Brad got or is getting some pistons from Bailey's to check out and since he does not have all those saws in unmodded form, he posts an offer to put them in members saws for $50. That, to me, seems like a fair proposal. Shipping costs now, before, and forever are tough crap. Shipping saws is not cheap, never has been. That cost is part of doing business on the web. Is Brad ripping anyone off here? Hardly. The pistons are his to do with what he wants. He could just stick them on ebay and get more than 50 bucks with a whole lot less effort.
> 
> The offer was, $50 to supply and install a new wiseco piston in your saw. The presentation may not have been perfect, the only problem I see is asking for a perfect running saw. Although I certainly can see what he meant, he did not want to have to resuscitate some basket case as well as putting in a piston. If that was worded better, it would not have been a problem.
> It was a simple offer imo, for the reasons I stated and I would encourage those that were interested in it to take him up on it. Even without the free piston, $50 for taking your saw apart and putting it back together along with both sending and receiving shipping, pm's, re-tuning etc, is a freaking bargain. Throw in a wiseco piston and well, c'mon, how's that make him some type of crook.
> ...



Exactly. I really don't understand the heavy fire. Makes no sense unless there is an agenda behind the incoming fire. This was simple, straight forward, informal, and something both parties could agree to or not...totally harmless.


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## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

Wild Knight said:


> So, this isn't you?



nope


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Swollen bones in soup and cat hair will not authorize a vegetarian paddock and battery schism in parallelogram asphalt.



Now this guy's really got something going on. It might be dementia, but he definitely uses his noggin for something other than a hat rack. Personally, I think he uses the space for composting manure. That would explain his breath.

Ian


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Nice pics Brad. I think I've decided to get the Canon 24-105 f/4L IS USM lens in July. I wish I could afford an f/2.8 L series lens but they really really get proud of those guys.

Ian


----------



## weimedog (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> OK, speak up, or shutup! What do you guys want from me? It's high time a mod stepped in and straightened this mess out. All some of you are doing is looking for a fight. Take it somewhere else where your wanted.



OK. A view from the motor sports side.

Keep doing what you are doing.

I think what you are seeing here is a culture clash as the community deals with the enthusiast side of chainsaws vs. the pure small business side. I have to keep going back to the motor sports comparison...in the performance side of that the entire sport, all expenditures are..fun and therefor unnecessary. Think about that for a second. A $6,000 dollar dirt bike for fun; another $3000 in motor mods and "bling" for fun. $200 every weekend to race for ..fun. An entire performance and bling business grew up around that sport to give participants either performance advantages over their competition and/or friends and also to LOOK better. To the established sales community for home and garden tools and tools for small business.....that does not compute. A typical brand loyal dealer who tries to control as much of the business with as little liability as possible simply won't understand why anyone would take a perfectly good tool and send it out to be butchers by a non certified, non professional...enthusiast! But a serious trail rider has no problem sending out & therefor risking $1500 dollar motorcycle parts, suspension & motor parts; to enthusiasts to modify for another $1000 if the "word of mouth' in the community says that person has something to offer...its been that way for years all the way back to the beginning of the motor sports world. Just doesn't compute in a world where a $1000 dollars is a big expenditure and a $50 service charge pisses someone off...amazing. We are big boys and have the choice to either spend or not spend our money! Rather than being pissed off at an offer DON'T PARTICIPATE! simple as that.

AND even now the established dealers and manufacturers battle that aftermarket with clear documentation that such mods void warranty and the like..but after 30-40 years they have also endorsed that very same after market to the point companies like Kawasaki HIRE once start ups by serious enthusiasts..like Brad...to both do research and development and to build parts for race teams. Pro Circuit comes to mind. Guess what..Wiseco comes from that performance aftermarket world so it would be a surprise if they were upset with something like Brad offered. 

For years and years aftermarket companies would put stuff out into a trail riding or racing arena for low cost to test and gage market reaction ...and what Brad is doing is a derivative of exactly that. I see no issue here. And to those who do...what is your issue? How do you lose anything? The only thing I can think is it goes against the tightly controlled environment they think they have now or they have a personal agenda and see Brad as competition. Goes against that tight consumer products mentality. But this is very common in the motorcycle and quad world. I hope we see more of that here. It adds a fun factor. And that ..just doesn't compute with a typical home & garden center selling to PDQ public concerned about piles of paperwork & liability...squeezing nickles out of every sale possible, mentality. Although I wouldn't be surprised if those very same people dabble in motor sports for recreation...

So...my advice? You from the established sales and service..get used to this. Its good for this chainsaw community to expand from the true pro's and small power tool market to enthusiast...that opens up an entire business opportunities for performance aftermarket and "bling" products that you don't understand with the minimalist mindset but can sell and profit from in the future.

leme see..what kinds of products might be fun to see:
Pistons, Bearings, Carb mods, Cylinder mods, Muffler mods, ignition mods, aftermarket replacement parts for neat old saws like J-red's and Homelites.

I see my self as saw "trail rider". I have tons of stuff to cut and use my saws daily in fall and when weather allows in winter. I choose to take old beaters and build them to useful...for fun. If I buy new, it will be colored Red and from a friend..etc. I don't fit the business model for the established saw community. Buying from the biggest, best, most established, most documented, and all that crap doesn't impress me even a little bit. Since I have to work as hard as I do and spend the time I currentlly do to harvest and maintain the woodlands on my farm, I'm going to make it fun as well. So now instead of riding my dirt bikes I cut and skid timber. Instead of going to race "age" classes at typical harescramble or motorcoss events, race AHRMA events, or go to Motorcycle events; I go to GTG's and rummage through J-red parts and toss Poulans...thats fun!


----------



## wooddog (Feb 6, 2010)

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you nay sayers on being accepted into 4 other sites. I'm in your not. Life goes on Sir's. 

Got a lot of new threads to go read after being snowed in last night .


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## Banacanin (Feb 6, 2010)

Sir Cut and run for fun is tired of us nay sayers; we are too negative for the likes of a guy who wants to inform on people


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## Zero Gravity (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The first ones are in. It's time for some testing. As you may know, I don't get to run my saws a lot. Many of you do. What I'm looking for are individuals that are *high hour volume users* that could run these new pistons for some durability testing. What would happen, is you would send your saw to me for installation. I will be doing fit and finish evaluation on these piston. The piston is free to you. You only pay me $50 labor and shipping both ways.
> 
> I need one each of the following saws. 372, 044/440, 046/460, or 066/660. They are all standard bore. These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features. However, they are forged and should be more durable. I'm only interested in saws that are *currently in perfect running condition*. No exceptions. I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal. Please be honest with me.
> 
> If you fit this description and are interested, please send me a PM. At the current time, I am only looking for one of each model.



I would never replace an OEM piston with a Wiseco. I have seen that done on High end KTM motorcycles with poor results. The Wiseco piston had more rattle than the worn out pistons they replaced. I believe they need to size the forged pistons looser for thermal expansion. Every high end two stroke bike Iv'e had was equiped with a cast piston. lighter and better thermal expansion.
ZG


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## wooddog (Feb 6, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> Sir Cut and run for fun is tired of us nay sayers; we are too negative for the likes of a guy who wants to inform on people




Sir for your information. The only reason I left last night was to take my old ass to bed. Now I'm woke and back, so back to the fun.

Negative  You lost me.


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## Banacanin (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the 11th picture I shot playing with the new camera.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Thomasthecat said:


> Put that thing away... I'm sleepin'.


----------



## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Negative  You lost me.



Fortunately, now we know where to find you.


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## Hddnis (Feb 6, 2010)

Obfuscating on a direct accusation is a sure sign of guilt. Honest people will speak or type direct truth when confronted.



Mr. HE


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## Hddnis (Feb 6, 2010)

Brad101 said:


> Is that Tank Abbot setting there?





I can see the tank part, but I he doesn't look like an Abbot to me, wrong clothes for the part.:greenchainsaw:



Mr. HE


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## Eric Modell (Feb 6, 2010)

*Wild night*

This was a wild ride last night I posted, I rarely do, it had a negative tone. I posted again with an apology. 

I felt so bad for the negative tone I started a new tread I thought in Brad's defense.

I revived negative Rep from Brad and and a PM .

I also received a PM from the moderator informing me of my infraction???

In the tread I started I called out Bailey's and Brad as top notch sponsors witch I absolutely meant!!!!!

I also stated that these forged pistons may or may not be the the best thing for a hot saw. I also implied that time will tell.

My third point was it appears these forged pistons may, or may not be the answer for stock saws getting a lot of abuse.

Know hard feelings Brad I respect you a lot and was honestly trying to help you and this site out. 

I apologize a second time for screwing up.


----------



## Eric Modell (Feb 6, 2010)

I do not have great insight in to chain saw design but have engineering background want to learn and contribute.


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## Boleclimber (Feb 6, 2010)

*An Idea...*

How about I pay for the shipping of a wiseco piston to my residence. I can install it myself and save the installation fee and chainsaw shipping fees.

I have always wanted a piston to outlast my 2000 hour designed chainsaw. While I am at it I think I will add some expensive ceramic crank bearings to the mix. 

Since no one is in it for the money and it is all about baileys getting free testing, in my opinion this idea would work. 

Remember baileys ATOP testing? Baileys asked for AS members to reply to post for interested handfilers to test the ATOP system. They would send the ATOP system directly to you, no middle person.


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## Eric Modell (Feb 6, 2010)

Boleclimber said:


> How about I pay for the shipping of a wiseco piston to my residence. I can install it myself and save the installation fee and chainsaw shipping fees.
> 
> I have always wanted a piston to outlast my 2000 hour designed chainsaw. While I am at it I think I will add some expensive ceramic crank bearings to the mix.
> 
> ...



This is great idea but you have to let Bailey's know you will do a detailed follow up with pictures like Brad always does.


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## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

Boleclimber said:


> Remember baileys ATOP testing? Baileys asked for AS members to reply to post for interested handfilers to test the ATOP system. They would send the ATOP system directly to you, no middle person.



In this case they are sending them to Brad...without a middle person.

He thought he was doing a good thing by offering the pistons to others.

Was he trying to do a good thing? I believe so.

Did Brad think it through in terms of liability? No. He admitted as much.

Is $50 installed a good deal on that piston? Absolutely.

Should Brad do the work for free? Absolutely not.

Do shipping costs make it less of a deal? Of course.

Do we all have to deal with the high cost of shipping for saws? Of course.

Are there members that will go after Brad at every opportunity? Clearly.

Should Brad and his supporters ignore those posts, and assume that most members here can tell the difference between a valid criticism and a cheap shot? I wish they would.

Do valid criticisms get lumped in with the 'haters' by Brad and his supporters? They do.

Does that help Brad's image? Unfortunately not. 

Is it understandable that Brad and his friends/supporters are a little defensive? Probably.

We're posting on the internet. You can be a moron, and still post on the internet. If you engage the morons, they will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

If you argue with a moron, you run the risk of the observers not being able to distinguish which one is the moron.

If you get your feelings hurt by a moron, you probably are too sensitive to be playing on the internet. 

If you worry that others might get their feelings hurt by a moron, you probably are too sensitive to be playing on the internet.

Until we have to answer a skill-testing question to log on, we will be dealing with the problem of morons. Until that time, I will try to follow my own advice.






I will fail.


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 6, 2010)

Once again Edisto, Brilliant!!!!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I'm not going to sit here and argue with you nay sayers :



Hum I remember this one guy that used to say that quite regularly.


----------



## Freehand (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> In this case they are sending them to Brad...without a middle person.
> 
> He thought he was doing a good thing by offering the pistons to others.
> 
> ...



Ed,you sir are the period at the end of the sentence.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 6, 2010)

*mea maxima culpa*



edisto said:


> In this case they are sending them to Brad...without a middle person.
> 
> He thought he was doing a good thing by offering the pistons to others.
> 
> ...



Edisto,

There is very little in what you wrote that I can take issue with, but I would like to communicate the following.

I wont apologize for, or reverse, my positions in all of this, no matter how charged or bellicose my posts may have been. However, I will apologize unreservedly to any well meaning person that felt 'lumped in with the haters' by what I wrote. 

With respect to maintaining an image: It may not be best practice, but I do not believe that it is a character flaw, to speak the truth as person understands it, even if to do so is to risk looking like the biggest moron in creation. 

The logic of your post(s) was unimpeachable. It was truthful to your beliefs, well thought out, and it was completely fair. Once again let me apologize to any well meaning person that I may have offended, and to you in particular if you felt that you were maligned.


----------



## nanuk (Feb 6, 2010)

*Heh... funny stuff....*



PlantBiologist said:


> I have no problems with Bailey's, but promoting a more durable piston when they are still testing them is false advertising.



I think what is missing from all this is some basic background.

I am sure Wiseco *HAS* tested these piston designs. they make a lot of pistons and I doubt want a mark on their record for bad ones in chainsaws.

Baileys was just looking for an opportunity to advertise they have these high quaility pistons, and also wanted feedback on the durability and quality from users. They get this from users all the time on products they sell, but because these are a newly carried item, they wanted feedback quickly.

Brad felt his time was worth something.

Thall completely misread the initial post... NOWHERE did I see that Brad was going to keep the saw for testing by himself... that's why he asked for users who put some serious time on their saws... "high hour volume users that could run these new pistons for some durability testing" and I remember a remark about return shipping! You only pay ... shipping both ways.

so I am left scratching my balding head and wondering WHY there is such animosity amongst the AS community. I really belittles this forum.


----------



## nanuk (Feb 6, 2010)

*would this issue NOT be built into the design?*



blsnelling said:


> Like as has already been mentioned here, expansion is my greatest concern. I would imagine that they have been undersized correctly by Wiseco. However, a forged piston is still more likely to cold seize. Forged pistons expand more rapidly than their cast counterparts. They expand considerable faster than the cylinder they are in.




wouldn't these pistons already be ported in such a way as to provide better cooling from underside? 

where is the EXTRA WEIGHT?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> In this case they are sending them to Brad...without a middle person.
> 
> He thought he was doing a good thing by offering the pistons to others.
> 
> ...



"Why wasn't THAT part of the original post?

Just pickin'.

Personally, I've seen enough about Bailey's to feel comfortable that the kind of testing they have in mind is above and beyond the lab testing, i.e., to see how the replacement pistons they sell work out in the hands of the goofballs that are going to be buying them.

I'll probably get accused of piling on, but you made another mistake here Brad that you should learn from. You are getting free pistons from Bailey's, but sell them down the river by not knowing what testing they have done. That is something you should have established as part of the deal.

Your intentions are good, but by not having the right information, you are making Bailey's look bad." 

Ed you should quit that name calling, goofballs, morons, your long post explains this other post of yours pretty good, yes you should try harder to follow your own advice. Always willing to help you out Ed.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 6, 2010)

:monkey:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I'll probably get accused of piling on, but you made another mistake here Brad that you should learn from. You are getting free pistons from Bailey's, but sell them down the river by not knowing what testing they have done. That is something you should have established as part of the deal.
> 
> Your intentions are good, but by not having the right information, you are making Bailey's look bad."



How is it my responsibility to inform you of the testing that Baileys has done? If you want to know, all you have to do is ask. They're another sponsor right here on channel AS. I don't know what other testing they've done, and really don't care. The brand name is good enough to give me enough trust to try them. If these pistons weren't of a brand with a reputaion similiar to that of Wiseco, I wouldn't have put this offer on the table. I though the enthusiast community would be as excited as I am to see another alternative come to market.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Nice pics Brad. I think I've decided to get the Canon 24-105 f/4L IS USM lens in July. I wish I could afford an f/2.8 L series lens but they really really get proud of those guys.
> 
> Ian



Went to the local Camera shop to get a remote shutter release and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse on that lens. I put it on layaway. WooHoo! --Ian


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Went to the local Camera shop to get a remote shutter release and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse on that lens. I put it on layaway. WooHoo! --Ian



You will absolutely *LOVE *that lens! I've had mine for several years, and it rarely comes off the camera.

You're runined now that you're trying L glass. It's as bad as CAD, lol. When I was doing weddings and into photography more heavily I tried all of the following lens. I've sense sold all of these. 16-35mm f/2.8L, 10-22mm, 17-40mm f/4L, 28-70mm f/2.8L, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS, 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2L.


----------



## PB (Feb 6, 2010)

nanuk said:


> I am sure Wiseco *HAS* tested these piston designs. they make a lot of pistons and I doubt want a mark on their record for bad ones in chainsaws.



I am pretty sure Wiseco did not go out and develop these chainsaw pistons on their own. I am willing to bet that Bailey's initiated the contact and asked them to make them. Anyone can have a piston made, Leeha did just that with the 166 pistons. Do you think they went out and found a Dolmar saw to try them in?

I highly doubt Wiseco even put one of these pistons in a chainsaw on their own.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

nanuk said:


> I think what is missing from all this is some basic background.
> 
> I am sure Wiseco *HAS* tested these piston designs. they make a lot of pistons and I doubt want a mark on their record for bad ones in chainsaws.
> 
> ...



I didn't mis read it , I read through it and lets have a look see what was said about testing later. 

"That's exactly what Baileys did. They offered *me the pistons to test out*. The problem was, I didn't have all of those saws with OEM jugs. So I tried to come up with a way that I could *still help them out*, and asked them about doing this. Perhaps I didn't think it out well enough. Fine. But you guys sure have whipped this up into a frenzy, in typical AS style. 
__________________

Now am I seeing things or does that not say what I'm looking at.

Also you left out this:

*"I need one each of the following saws*. 372, 044/440, 046/460, or 066/660. They are all standard bore. These are direct factory replacements with no performance enhancing features. However, they are forged and should be more durable. I'm only interested in saws that are currently in perfect running condition. No exceptions. I'm not looking to rebuild anyones saws in this deal. Please be honest with me."

That too I seen through when if you put it altogether its what, to help out Baileys using someone elses saw and charging them on top. I don't think Baileys had any idea this was going to take place when they offered Brad pistons for who to test, him!


----------



## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> edisto said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I've seen enough about Bailey's to feel comfortable that the kind of testing they have in mind is above and beyond the lab testing, i.e., to see how the replacement pistons they sell work out in the hands of the goofballs that are going to be buying them.
> ...



I count myself among the goofballs, which makes the comment good-natured. The real experts work at the dealerships don't they? They aren't going to be buying aftermarket stuff from Bailey's to put on their saws, or anyone else's saws.

If I was among the morons, I would be unable to recognize it. It seems to be a catch-22: if you are certain you aren't a moron, you very well might be one.

I'm glad you are willing to help Tommy, but how about doing something that actually is helpful (like sending me a hat), instead of letting me know that the post that says I have trouble following my own advice meant that I have trouble following my own advice?

If was capable of following my own advice, I wouldn't respond to your posts. 

I would, however, continue to read your technical reports and repair advice.



Banacanin said:


> The logic of your post(s) was unimpeachable. It was truthful to your beliefs, well thought out, and it was completely fair. Once again let me apologize to any well meaning person that I may have offended, and to you in particular if you felt that you were maligned.



I didn't feel maligned...I'm not that sensitive. 

I wasn't commenting on anyone in particular...just relating what was happening in this thread to what happens in so many other threads.

One thing I left off the list was that at least some of those waiting to pounce on Brad might not have had that attitude before the Stihl cylinder thread.

I don't mind people jumping on me (and no-one has in this thread), because I've jumped on people myself. Besides...it's an internet forum. I can choose what to read and what to ignore.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> How is it my responsibility to inform you of the testing that Baileys has done? If you want to know, all you have to do is ask. They're another sponsor right here on channel AS. I don't know what other testing they've done, and really don't care. The brand name is good enough to give me enough trust to try them. If these pistons weren't of a brand with a reputaion similiar to that of Wiseco, I wouldn't have put this offer on the table. I though the enthusiast community would be as excited as I am to see another alternative come to market.



Brad I understand fully your a saw nut. I realise too you and Baileys have a good relationship. That is great. The appearance of your offer is what I seen. I'm not the only one that viewed it that way. I would like to ask you one question. Did they call you offering those pistons or did you call them asking if you could try them out?

BTW, I am not sending your my perfectly running 460, 440 and 660 for you to stick them dayumm pistons in,LOL That perfectly running deal made my eyes do a double take Brad, you really made me go what and on that yeah I came along with a strong opinion, too strong, maybe but I've handled alot worse on here so to me its no biggie.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> I count myself among the goofballs, which makes the comment good-natured. The real experts work at the dealerships don't they? They aren't going to be buying aftermarket stuff from Bailey's to put on their saws, or anyone else's saws.
> 
> If I was among the morons, I would be unable to recognize it. It seems to be a catch-22: if you are certain you aren't a moron, you very well might be one.
> 
> ...



Ed dayumm you, PM me your friggin address, I will send you a hat cause I'm tired of you picking on me, I have very delicate skin,LOLOLOL What color you want??


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Did they call you offering those pistons or did you call them asking if you could try them out?



They contacted me. Why?


----------



## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Ed dayumm you, PM me your friggin address, I will send you a hat cause I'm tired of you picking on me, I have very delicate skin,LOLOLOL What color you want??



Blue suede of course.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> You will absolutely *LOVE *that lens! I've had mine for several years, and it rarely comes off the camera.
> 
> You're ruined now that you're trying L glass. It's as bad as CAD, lol. When I was doing weddings and into photography more heavily I tried all of the following lens. I've since sold all of these. 16-35mm f/2.8L, 10-22mm, 17-40mm f/4L, 28-70mm f/2.8L, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS, 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2L.



Man, you had some cash wrapped up in lenses didn't you. I'd love to have that 100-400 L you sold. That would have been a perfect match to go with the one I'm getting. I like to take pics of stuff like that bird and have enough lens to bring it in. I am also liking taking macro pics. The guy at Murphy's Camera said that an extension tube works great with my lens for macro pics without losing any of the quality like you do with Canon's 500D close up filter.

Ian


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Man, you had some cash wrapped up in lenses didn't you. I'd love to have that 100-400 L you sold. That would have been a perfect match to go with the one I'm getting. I like to take pics of stuff like that bird and have enough lens to bring it in. I am also liking taking macro pics. The guy at Murphy's Camera said that an extension tube works great with my lens for macro pics without losing any of the quality like you do with Canon's 500D close up filter.
> 
> Ian



I didn't own them all at once. After trying lots of telephoto lens, I landed on the 100-400. I had it for several years. Nearly every other 300-400 lens I tried left me frustrated. I've not used this 70-300IS enough to comment.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> They contacted me. Why?



Great. Had it been the other way around it would not look good asking for saws from users and pistons from Baileys. So good.

Now I gotta give Ed a hat to have him stop picking on me. Now to you. Many have accused me that I purposely try to get under your skin. Hell Flyboy sent me red rep course I sent him a PM saying thank you. I didn't call him anything, just said thank you, see ya on the board. I felt like calling him a prick but I didn't. I got a PM telling me "your not too bad when your not trying to get under Brads skin". 

I guess I may be alittle ruffer than some but I don't recall delibertly trying to get under your skin. Point em out if ya can and if you can I'll say ok, maybe I have but not intentional. This forumn is open. Ed made a real good point, he kept saying Brad and his supporters. Brad you know I do not use anyone else to make a fuss, I speak for me. I don't want anyone else fighting my battles. Look at this thread, I came directly to you. I didn't gang up with the other that disargeed, it was you and me buddy. Sadly some of your supporters took up your cause, spoke for you. They slurred me, called me out and thats all fine and well. However I have to reply to them as well. That turns little disputes into books like this. The point I'm making is when something is directed at you from a member that member shouldn't have to take on all your supporters. Though I don't mind it requires so much more typing and my fingers are 52 yrs old. So the next time you dear ole Rodbender has something directed strickly to you from ole Big Prick I hope I won't have to deal with all the others. You know me, I pack no heat, I come alone. You should as well. Now is this thread over with yet or is it group hug time,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I'm not going to sit here and argue with you nay sayers on being accepted into 4 other sites. I'm in your not. Life goes on Sir's.
> 
> Got a lot of new threads to go read after being snowed in last night .





Banacanin said:


> Sir Cut and run for fun is tired of us nay sayers; we are too negative for the likes of a guy who wants to inform on people





Andyshine77 said:


> Hum I remember this one guy that used to say that quite regularly.



*Hey Wooddog, how's the weather in Chardon?*


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Now I gotta give Ed a hat to have him stop picking on me. Now to you. Many have accused me that I purposely try to get under your skin. Hell Flyboy sent me red rep course I sent him a PM saying thank you. I didn't call him anything, just said thank you, see ya on the board. I felt like calling him a prick but I didn't. I got a PM telling me "your not too bad when your not trying to get under Brads skin".
> 
> I guess I may be alittle ruffer than some but I don't recall delibertly trying to get under your skin. Point em out if ya can and if you can I'll say ok, maybe I have but not intentional. This forumn is open. Ed made a real good point, he kept saying Brad and his supporters. Brad you know I do not use anyone else to make a fuss, I speak for me. I don't want anyone else fighting my battles. Look at this thread, I came directly to you. I didn't gang up with the other that disargeed, it was you and me buddy. Sadly some of your supporters took up your cause, spoke for you. They slurred me, called me out and thats all fine and well. However I have to reply to them as well. That turns little disputes into books like this. The point I'm making is when something is directed at you from a member that member shouldn't have to take on all your supporters. Though I don't mind it requires so much more typing and my fingers are 52 yrs old. So the next time you dear ole Rodbender has something directed strickly to you from ole Big Prick I hope I won't have to deal with all the others. You know me, I pack no heat, I come alone. You should as well. Now is this thread over with yet or is it group hug time,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Don't even act for one second like you don't love a good scrap!:greenchainsaw:


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> Blue suede of course.



How bout green, don't have any blue ones, if I had a blue one I wouldn't give it to you, why, guess. Yup just to pizz ya off,LOLOL. One green hat for Ed, got it written down,


----------



## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> How bout green, don't have any blue ones, if I had a blue one I wouldn't give it to you, why, guess. Yup just to pizz ya off,LOLOL. One green hat for Ed, got it written down,



I'm just glad they don't make pink ones...


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Don't even act for one second like you don't love a good scrap!:greenchainsaw:



I'll admit that but Wrestlemania with 5 on one is so time consuming Brad. Sides I'm old man. Also I like playing more than scrapping, have some laffs and crack some one liners BUT YES, you are correct about the scrapping, I admits it. Might be a case of being stubborn but I think that may apply to most everyone on here, including who, yes you...


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> I'm just glad they don't make pink ones...



Haha, green it is. BTW, Belgian of all people sent me a Husqvarna calendar the other day. Now thats low. Wait till I see him, this thread is nothing, grrr..


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> I'm just glad they don't make pink ones...



But Ed...they do make pink ones. I could send ya one for the wifey if ya want.


----------



## flyboy (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Great. Had it been the other way around it would not look good asking for saws from users and pistons from Baileys. So good.
> 
> Now I gotta give Ed a hat to have him stop picking on me. Now to you. Many have accused me that I purposely try to get under your skin. Hell Flyboy sent me red rep course I sent him a PM saying thank you. I didn't call him anything, just said thank you, see ya on the board. I felt like calling him a prick but I didn't. I got a PM telling me "your not too bad when your not trying to get under Brads skin".
> 
> I guess I may be alittle ruffer than some but I don't recall delibertly trying to get under your skin. Point em out if ya can and if you can I'll say ok, maybe I have but not intentional. This forumn is open. Ed made a real good point, he kept saying Brad and his supporters. Brad you know I do not use anyone else to make a fuss, I speak for me. I don't want anyone else fighting my battles. Look at this thread, I came directly to you. I didn't gang up with the other that disargeed, it was you and me buddy. Sadly some of your supporters took up your cause, spoke for you. They slurred me, called me out and thats all fine and well. However I have to reply to them as well. That turns little disputes into books like this. The point I'm making is when something is directed at you from a member that member shouldn't have to take on all your supporters. Though I don't mind it requires so much more typing and my fingers are 52 yrs old. So the next time you dear ole Rodbender has something directed strickly to you from ole Big Prick I hope I won't have to deal with all the others. You know me, I pack no heat, I come alone. You should as well. Now is this thread over with yet or is it group hug time,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:





I'm not saying you didn't deserve it, but I was 3 scotches into it when I red-repped you. You are completely honest about your PM to me. You were quite cordial.

I was being selfish in my defense of Brad. He has always helped out when I asked him to. I figure if you piss Brad off enough to make him go away, I will lose an invaluable resource.


----------



## teacherman (Feb 6, 2010)

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?

:greenchainsaw:

I guess it is now group hug time.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

flyboy said:


> I'm not saying you didn't deserve it, but I was 3 scotches into it when I red-repped you. You are completely honest about your PM to me. You were quite cordial.
> 
> I was being selfish in my defense of Brad. He has always helped out when I asked him to. I figure if you piss Brad off enough to make him go away, I will lose an invaluable resource.



Well hello, figured you catch my bait there,LOL No need to say sorry, hell if you felt that way let it rip. Heads up however and get this loud and clear, Brad is the last man I want to see leave the site. He's the biggest saw nut on here and he puts up some good stuff. I've complimented him many times on his vids telling him man that saw runs good. Just because there is a tuzzle from time to time its no biggie. No one should be afraid to speak their mind and sometimes there will be disagreements. Makes life interesting. I mean face it, a scrap always draws a bigger crowd than anything else on here. It will pass, tant nothing for anyone to even consider leaving the site over,


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I speak for me. I don't want anyone else fighting my battles. Look at this thread, I came directly to you. I didn't gang up with the other that disargeed, it was you and me buddy. Sadly some of your supporters took up your cause, spoke for you.



Oh, the *groupies* :greenchainsaw:


----------



## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

Bowtie said:


> But Ed...they do make pink ones. I could send ya one for the wifey if ya want.



Hmmm...

I wonder if that would be enough to get her interested in saws?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I wonder if that would be enough to get her interested in saws?



Probably not but a nice lined Stihl coat would, just a thought. Opppps, forgets, they about 65.00. Hats we can swing for free, coats only free for the *single* ladies, sorry Ed,LOLOL


----------



## flyboy (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Well hello, figured you catch my bait there,LOL No need to say sorry, hell if you felt that way let it rip. Heads up however and get this loud and clear, Brad is the last man I want to see leave the site. He's the biggest saw nut on here and he puts up some good stuff. I've complimented him many times on his vids telling him man that saw runs good. Just because there is a tuzzle from time to time its no biggie. No one should be afraid to speak their mind and sometimes there will be disagreements. Makes life interesting. I mean face it, a scrap always draws a bigger crowd than anything else on here. It will pass, tant nothing for anyone to even consider leaving the site over,





In the last bit of your post there......are you subliminally saying we should all have a beer summit??????????


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> That perfectly running deal made my eyes do a double take Brad, you really made me go what and on that yeah I came along with a strong opinion, too strong, maybe but I've handled alot worse on here so to me its no biggie.



Yea, I remember you said I was only here to _torture_ you.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

flyboy said:


> In the last bit of your post there......are you subliminally saying we should all have a beer summit??????????



Well lets put it this way, thats not a bad idea is it?, by the way, check your rep, I negged ya good,LOLOL, kidding, I sent ya posi rep...


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

Fastcast said:


> Yea, I remember you said I was only here to _torture_ you.



I plede the fifth, I don't recall saying such a thing, but yeah, probably true,

Fast I'm going out and shovel some snow. We got about 30inches here. If I'm not back in 1 hour call the meat wagon for me, no wait, just call the funeral home....


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I plede the fifth



I bet you do! lol


----------



## brncreeper (Feb 6, 2010)

teacherman said:


> Are we there yet?
> Are we there yet?



No. My 084 is running great but there's no Wiseco pistons offered. That figures, my 372 is running like crud and there's truck loads of those pistons.
opcorn:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Probably not but a nice lined Stihl coat would, just a thought. Opppps, forgets, they about 65.00. Hats we can swing for free, coats only free for the *single* ladies, sorry Ed,LOLOL



Let's see a picture of that coat. Sounds like something for a saw nut.


----------



## rms61moparman (Feb 6, 2010)

Dayumm,

What the heck is all of this fuss about?????
The man made an offer, there is only 2 answers necessary, yes or no thanks.

I choose No Thanks.


What's the next question????


Mike


----------



## edisto (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Probably not but a nice lined Stihl coat would, just a thought. Opppps, forgets, they about 65.00. Hats we can swing for free, coats only free for the *single* ladies, sorry Ed,LOLOL



Tommy,

I got a feeling that if I went into your shop and brought my wallet with me, by the time I got back home, she would have decided to be single.

She'd get half my stuff AND a free coat!


----------



## wooddog (Feb 6, 2010)

Just because you want to call me out Sir Fatboy. I will bring proof of what I copied and pasted earlier in your call out thread. I can only speak for myself. The others I have no clue. 

Well Sir Fatguy I have no clue who you are or the other 3 names on your list.
I thought I better come for a visit and say Hi. I also brought some information of proof of my other log in you non believers don't believe happened.
Here is my proof and I will see you guys back in the chainsaw forum. I have no use for off topic shenanigans.

Proof of new sign in at that other site.

Go Back Race saws > View Profile
Reload this Page wooddog

Welcome, wooddog.
You last visited: Today at 6:27 PM
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View Profile: wooddog
wooddog wooddog is online now
Junior Member

Last Activity: Today 6:27 PM

Now go pick on someone that cares Fatguy, maybe 1 of the other 3 care, I don't.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Now go have a beer and a steak.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2010)

So when are you going to quit hiding behind your keyboard and tell us who you really are?


----------



## spacemule (Feb 6, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Also I like playing more than scrapping, have some laffs and crack some one liners BUT YES, you are correct about the scrapping, I admits it. Might be a case of being stubborn but I think that may apply to most everyone on here, including who, yes you...


I don't like scrapping at all. In fact, I do everything I can to maintain peace.


----------



## teacherman (Feb 6, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I don't like scrapping at all. In fact, I do everything I can to maintain peace.



Space, you remind me of that article in the Trib about 30 years ago, about this guy fishing in the Chicago River on his lunch hour. Yer trolling some pretty filthy water there, bubba. Even TNT won't bring much of use up to the surface......


----------



## spacemule (Feb 6, 2010)

I don't know what you're talking about. . .


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I don't like scrapping at all. In fact, I do everything I can to maintain peace.



Why you lying sack of ----. No wonder we got 30 inches snow here, grrrrr


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

edisto said:


> Tommy,
> 
> I got a feeling that if I went into your shop and brought my wallet with me, by the time I got back home, she would have decided to be single.
> 
> She'd get half my stuff AND a free coat!



Well all I can tell you is every single member from here that has walked in the door have all gotton sweet deals and treated good. She would also get a "mam I'm sorry, I know how he is too", hahaha


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Let's see a picture of that coat. Sounds like something for a saw nut.



Brad they got some outfit that makes a bunch of logo clothes for them. They got some nice stuff but man they want some pennies for them. Next time your at your dealer ask him to show you the clothes catalog, you'll be amazed at the stuff and the prices..


----------



## spacemule (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Why you lying sack of ----. No wonder we got 30 inches snow here, grrrrr



30 inches of snow? What you do to deserve that?


----------



## teacherman (Feb 7, 2010)

spacemule said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. . .



Look! Space caught an old steel-toed boot! Yay Space! LOLOL


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Why you lying sack of ----. No wonder we got 30 inches snow here, grrrrr



Snow hog They told us we'd gt 10-12", and we got maybe a lowesy 5-6". I've never seen a 30" snow. That would be awesome. I love the white stuff!


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Just because you want to call me out Sir Fatboy. I will bring proof of what I copied and pasted earlier in your call out thread. I can only speak for myself. The others I have no clue.
> 
> Well Sir Fatguy I have no clue who you are or the other 3 names on your list.
> I thought I better come for a visit and say Hi. I also brought some information of proof of my other log in you non believers don't believe happened.
> ...



Join date 2-6-10?? :monkey:


----------



## edisto (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Well all I can tell you is every single member from here that has walked in the door have all gotton sweet deals and treated good. She would also get a "mam I'm sorry, I know how he is too", hahaha



I don't doubt that at all...I feel guilty when someone cuts me a deal so I buy more.

I'd be broke...fast!


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

spacemule said:


> 30 inches of snow? What you do to deserve that?



Loudoun County got hit hard, real hard. Biggest snow the DC area has had in years. What did I do to deserve it ya say, I wish I knew. I hate snow with a passion. Use to love it as a kid, now old dayummmmm a bunch snow, its miserable to deal with....


----------



## spacemule (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Loudoun County got hit hard, real hard. Biggest snow the DC area has had in years. What did I do to deserve it ya say, I wish I knew. I hate snow with a passion. Use to love it as a kid, now old dayummmmm a bunch snow, its miserable to deal with....



He he he, Merry Christmas, he he.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Snow hog They told us we'd gt 10-12", and we got maybe a lowesy 5-6". I've never seen a 30" snow. That would be awesome. I love the white stuff!



We had 26" in December...that was more than plenty...


.









.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Snow hog They told us we'd gt 10-12", and we got maybe a lowesy 5-6". I've never seen a 30" snow. That would be awesome. I love the white stuff!



Love snow, great, there's probably 100 billion tons out there, your welcome to it, have a look,






That is a color photo. It looks black and white. Thats how it looked here all day...


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Got any picturs of it on top of stuff to give perspective?


----------



## parrisw (Feb 7, 2010)

wooddog said:


> Just because you want to call me out Sir Fatboy. I will bring proof of what I copied and pasted earlier in your call out thread. I can only speak for myself. The others I have no clue.
> 
> Well Sir Fatguy I have no clue who you are or the other 3 names on your list.
> I thought I better come for a visit and say Hi. I also brought some information of proof of my other log in you non believers don't believe happened.
> ...



Gee, now that wouldn't be easy to manipulate now would it?



Metals406 said:


> Join date 2-6-10?? :monkey:


inside job?



THALL10326 said:


> Love snow, great, there's probably 100 billion tons out there, your welcome to it, have a look,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love it!! I like playing in the white stuff with my kids.


----------



## Meadow Beaver (Feb 7, 2010)

He said " go have a beer and steak", how is that an insult. That's just demanding him to eat something good. :monkey:


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Gee, now that wouldn't be easy to manipulate now would it?
> 
> 
> inside job?
> ...




I guess up in your part of the world 30 inches is nothing. I seen a tv show one nite where somewhere up there they had 10-15 foot drifts. They showed people on top of their houses clearing the roofs. Too much for this cat, come on spring................


----------



## howellhandmade (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Got any picturs of it on top of stuff to give perspective?












21 inches, just went out with a tape measure and checked the pile on top of my rain barrel. Pain in the tuchus. PA declared a disaster/state of emergency, which my Canadian wife thought was amusing. I spent most of the day digging out, and digging my wife's car out from where she had to leave it and walk up the hill last night. It got buried by snow plows with stuff like wet concrete, thank heaven for ibuprofen.

Jack


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I guess up in your part of the world 30 inches is nothing. I seen a tv show one nite where somewhere up there they had 10-15 foot drifts. They showed people on top of their houses clearing the roofs. Too much for this cat, come on spring................



I'm with ya spring can't come soon enough.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Got any picturs of it on top of stuff to give perspective?



Here is one I took at dark of my truck. I look at it and cringe, its two wheel drive,LOL


----------



## weimedog (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I guess up in your part of the world 30 inches is nothing. I seen a tv show one nite where somewhere up there they had 10-15 foot drifts. They showed people on top of their houses clearing the roofs. Too much for this cat, come on spring................



Looks to me like global warming pushed a typical Central New York weather system south into your front yard...damn that climate change! (I can deal with winters like this! Cold but I have just a inch or two of snow on the ground! Can run the little tractor down into the valley for a little saw time! Usually that road has 6ft of snow cover!)


----------



## spacemule (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I guess up in your part of the world 30 inches is nothing. I seen a tv show one nite where somewhere up there they had 10-15 foot drifts. They showed people on top of their houses clearing the roofs. Too much for this cat, come on spring................



Well damn, it ain't every day you see something that can pile it too high for you. You forget to take your Stihl pills this morning?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm with ya spring can't come soon enough.



No kidding. Next time that groundhog see's his shadow someone should blast that critter, grrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Here is one I took at dark of my truck. I look at it and cringe, its two wheel drive,LOL



What truck, lol.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

spacemule said:


> Well damn, it ain't every day you see something that can pile it too high for you. You forget to take your Stihl pills this morning?



Ha, one thing I don't mess with and thats mother nature. Not when it comes to the weather or back in the day when I was married, didn't fool with mother nature there either,LOLOL


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## Gumnuts (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Why you lying sack of ----. No wonder we got 30 inches snow here, grrrrr



LOL.....hope I don't choke on my steak tonight ......Tom you got a way with words sometimes


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What truck, lol.



Why is it everyone makes fun of my two wheel drive truck. The guys at work go you don't have a truck, you got a car with a bed on it. Then I hear well what are you gonna do if it snows, I say stay home while you guys with the 4 wheelers are working. I got burned on that too, one of em came and picked me up the last time I couldn't get out. Didn't see em this morning though,haha


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## parrisw (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I guess up in your part of the world 30 inches is nothing. I seen a tv show one nite where somewhere up there they had 10-15 foot drifts. They showed people on top of their houses clearing the roofs. Too much for this cat, come on spring................



Well for once Tom, your wrong. LOL LOL. We don't get much snow here where I live. This year so far, we have had 0 snow, that's right 0 this little wonderful spot, gee well, I sat outside yesterday in the SUN and had my lunch, and it was a balmy 13°C, ha ha ha ha ha. LOL LOL, you suckers in all that cold and snow!!!


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## spacemule (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Why is it everyone makes fun of my two wheel drive truck. The guys at work go you don't have a truck, you got a car with a bed on it. Then I hear well what are you gonna do if it snows, I say stay home while you guys with the 4 wheelers are working. I got burned on that too, one of em came and picked me up the last time I couldn't get out. Didn't see em this morning though,haha



I'm with you on that. I haven't had a 4 wheel drive in years, and I haven't been stuck or snowed in once. To live in town yet own a 4 wheel drive is asinine and smacks of compensation.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

weimedog said:


> Looks to me like global warming pushed a typical Central New York weather system south into your front yard...damn that climate change! (I can deal with winters like this! Cold but I have just a inch or two of snow on the ground! Can run the little tractor down into the valley for a little saw time! Usually that road has 6ft of snow cover!)



The biggest snow I can remember around here was 1966. We actually had a blizzard, a huge one. Roads were closed for weeks. The state had to use truck mounted snow throwers, blades didn't stand a chance. The problem was the wind. We had drifts 9-10 high across the main roads. Back then I thought hey this is great, no school for a week. Now just the hint of snow makes me hate winter altogether. Snow is just too much work, it hinders everything.


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> No kidding. Next time that groundhog see's his shadow someone should blast that critter, grrrrrrrrrrr



I'm waiting for him, he better not come my way.


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## stihlboy (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Here is one I took at dark of my truck. I look at it and cringe, its two wheel drive,LOL



hey tommie that there is one of them trucks with a uterus on the front ain't it?

lol

i feel your pain on the 2wd thing. my nascar truck gets stuck on flat ground with a half inch of snow on the ground if i forget to take the slicks off before winter


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Well for once Tom, your wrong. LOL LOL. We don't get much snow here where I live. This year so far, we have had 0 snow, that's right 0 this little wonderful spot, gee well, I sat outside yesterday in the SUN and had my lunch, and it was a balmy 13°C, ha ha ha ha ha. LOL LOL, you suckers in all that cold and snow!!!



Once, not hardly, many yes. I don't know what part of the country it was but the show showed people up on the tops of their homes, I never seen snow like that.

You sat in the sun yesterday, hope you got sunburned so bad they mistake you for a red light in heavy morning traffic, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,LOL


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I say stay home while you guys with the 4 wheelers are working. I got burned on that too, one of em came and picked me up the last time I couldn't get out. Didn't see em this morning though,haha



They have to get to work, they need gas money.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm waiting for him, he better not come my way.



I got one of those, those little guns shoot pretty good. Ruger brought that thing out many years ago, they have sold a ton of those, good choice!!!!


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## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

.


Red mist...








.


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## stihlboy (Feb 7, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> .
> 
> 
> Red mist...
> ...



man they stole your scope!!!!


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Sako Forester L597 .243













100 yd groups


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> They have to get to work, they need gas money.



Good point. I get alot of, excuse my french, ole rednecks that come in the shop. They got Fords, Rams and Chevys with huge tires, gun racks in the back window, huge roll bars with flood lights, side steps on the cab. They all wear JD hats and most times a wad of tobacco in thier mouth. I always ask them what kinda milage ya get in that thing. Some lie and say 17-18, some tell the truth, 8-10,LOL


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Sako Forester L597 .243
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now that a varmit rifle. You reload your own ammo??


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## parrisw (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Once, not hardly, many yes. I don't know what part of the country it was but the show showed people up on the tops of their homes, I never seen snow like that.
> 
> You sat in the sun yesterday, hope you got sunburned so bad they mistake you for a red light in heavy morning traffic, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,LOL



ha ha ha.. LOL. I'm on the WET COAST. 

You must of seen the 200T vid I did a few days ago?? I was in a T-shirt, grass was green, LOL LOL, you want the link!!


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Sako Forester L597 .243
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now that there is a gun.


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I got one of those, those little guns shoot pretty good. Ruger brought that thing out many years ago, they have sold a ton of those, good choice!!!!



Thanks man. They're nice little .22's for sure, I've had mine for a looong time.


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## stihlboy (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Now that there is a gun.



it is a nice one for sure!


i prefer one with just a hint more power 

.308 or 7.62 nato, now a .50 caliber bolt action is just fun.
no i don't own these guns.....yet....... i got a tree to cut up first

then i may see if he will trade me for an 066


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

That 243 is a great varmit gun. I used to have a Model 700 Remminton with a 12x Leupold scope. Shot good. Reloaded my own, neat hobby. Course that was 25 years ago. I think my most accurate load was a 100 grain Serria hollow point, Winchester case, Federal 200 primer and 48 grains of Dupont 4831 gun powder. The more you fill the case to the hilt the better the groups. Neck sizing the case helps too. 

Reloading was fun but babies came along that ended reloading, I was still firing though,hahahahaha


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Now that a varmit rifle. You reload your own ammo??



You would think, but no. I've toyed with the idea before. But I'd be forever looking for the perfect recipe. 

I looked but don't have pics of my custom fluted stainless Ruger 10/22.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

parrisw said:


> ha ha ha.. LOL. I'm on the WET COAST.
> 
> You must of seen the 200T vid I did a few days ago?? I was in a T-shirt, grass was green, LOL LOL, you want the link!!



Send it, I didn't see that one..


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> That 243 is a great varmit gun.



Here's what I love about it. A .243 can shoot a 55-58 grain bullet with the same velocity and trajectory a 22-.250 or 220 Swift can a 40 gr bullet. Then if you can throw different ammo in it and go for larger game like antelope, etc. Doesn't get much more versitle than that.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> You would think, but no. I've toyed with the idea before. But I'd be forever looking for the perfect recipe.
> 
> I looked but don't have pics of my custom fluted stainless Ruger 10/22.



Can't believe it, felt for sure you would. With a gun like that a well prepared reload will give you 3 shots at 100 yards making one slightly enlarged hole. The brothers and me were into reloading hot and heavy for along time. We loaded thousands of rounds and got it down pat. We knew exactly what load shot the best in each gun. We had all the Dupont powders, all different brand primers, cases and far as bullets, we used Serria, Hornady, Speer and Nosler. Serria seemed to be the most accurate of the three but the Hornady was the deadly one far as expanding on impact. Its a hobby where you can measure your results very easy. Put in a bad load, those groups get big, real big..


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

I might as well make you guys mad again and tell you guys how I got the Sako. I was up in Findlay in a gun shop and heard a guy talking about a couple Colt Pythons he had. I ended up getting the nicest of the pair. It was a nearly mint in Royal Blue. I got it for $450! But that's not where it ends. A week later I was back home in a gun store and a fellow mentioned this Sako. I had been wanting a bull barreled .243 for a while, but a Sako was out of my range. I followed this guy to his home to check out his rifle. If I recall, it's a 1958 model but is in nearly mint condition, including the rifling. I traded the Python for it straight across. Obviously, it's not the original stock. It's a very nice stock, but I'd love to have a beautiful wood Monte Carlo stock on it someday. Anyway, that's the story about my Sako


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Can't believe it, felt for sure you would. With a gun like that a well prepared reload will give you 3 shots at 100 yards making one slightly enlarged hole. The brothers and me were into reloading hot and heavy for along time. We loaded thousands of rounds and got it down pat. We knew exactly what load shot the best in each gun. We had all the Dupont powders, all different brand primers, cases and far as bullets, we used Serria, Hornady, Speer and Nosler. Serria seemed to be the most accurate of the three but the Hornady was the deadly one far as expanding on impact. Its a hobby where you can measure your results very easy. Put in a bad load, those groups get big, real big..



I would guess you could shoot on your own property. I've never had that ability. And like everything else, I knew if I ever started loading, I'd obcess on it, lol.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I love about it. A .243 can shoot a 55-58 grain bullet with the same velocity and trajectory a 22-.250 or 220 Swift can a 40 gr bullet. Then if you can throw different ammo in it and go for larger game like antelope, etc. Doesn't get much more versitle than that.



Yup. The best arguments I ever seen among my brothers were over one having a 243 and the other a 6mm. They went around and around and around. Then one had a 22/250 and the other had a 220 Swift, same deal, arguing all the time. All toll at that time we probably went through well over 100 rifles of different makes and calibers. Today, none of us shoot a gun hardly at all, all those rifles are long gone. Was fun back in the day though. I got one gun now that I count on, I hope I never have to use. Let me get my camera, I'll show where it stays..


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I would guess you could shoot on your own property. I've never had that ability. And like everything else, I knew if I ever started loading, I'd obcess on it, lol.



Well I gotta say reloading was more fun than chainsaws, much more fun for one reason. The art of it is one thing but you still have to be able to shoot the gun. Thats where the fun was. 4 brothers shooting off a bench with tripods and sandbags and all 4 trying to measure 3 shot groups that were many times just one enlarged hole. The guy who's hole was the smallest got bragging rights,LOL


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

This is the only gun I rely on. Someone breaks in during the nite I'm not gonna get up, nope , I'm gonna reach over and when the door opens, surprize. Hopefully I'll never have to use that thing. BTW, its loaded with what they call Wadcutters. The hole them they make is awesome. Hit a guy in the chest or gut with that he's history somekinda fast..


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

I gotta little plastic gun for that myself.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Here's whats in that gun for those that may not know what wadcutter is. The copper shell around the lead is pre cut with 8 small grooves. When it impacts something the bullet expands real fast leaving a huge hole on its way out. Nailed a groundhog with it a few years back. He was stealing my cukes out in the garden, he never knew what hit him but his insides came out his backside about 20 feet past him, nasty bullet, one deadly mofo..


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I gotta little plastic gun for that myself.



Ewwwwwwwww nice, light and fast. That is one deadly gun too. I plan on shooting once and hoping I hit,LOL


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Ewwwwwwwww nice, light and fast. That is one deadly gun too. I plan on shooting once and hoping I hit,LOL



I say if you need to snap off more than two rounds you're not defending yourself, you're in a war.lol

I use low recoil personal defense rounds. They look similar to the rounds you use.


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## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I love about it. A .243 can shoot a 55-58 grain bullet with the same velocity and trajectory a 22-.250 or 220 Swift can a 40 gr bullet. Then if you can throw different ammo in it and go for larger game like antelope, etc. Doesn't get much more versitle than that.




You're right Brad. I have a Tikka T3 Stainless Varmint in .25/06 Rem but also a Win Mod 70 in .22/250 40° Ackley Improved with a 1:10 27" Krieger SS barrel. You'd think a 55 Grain V-Max at 4000fps would thump a 100gn .257" Ballistic Tip at 3400fps. Not the case at all. Past 150m the .25/06 eats it and is just as accurate - not bad for a stock, untouched rifle.



THALL10326 said:


> Here's whats in that gun for those that may not know what wadcutter is. The copper shell around the lead is pre cut with 8 small grooves. When it impacts something the bullet expands real fast leaving a huge hole on its way out. Nailed a groundhog with it a few years back. He was stealing my cukes out in the garden, he never knew what hit him but his insides came out his backside about 20 feet past him, nasty bullet, one deadly mofo..



In Australia that would be called a hollow point. Very messy  Which of course is the idea


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## rms61moparman (Feb 7, 2010)

MCW said:


> In Australia that would be called a hollow point. Very messy  Which of course is the idea



That's what they are called here too!


Mike


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I say if you need to snap off more than two rounds you're not defending yourself, you're in a war.lol
> 
> I use low recoil personal defense rounds. They look almost exactly like the rounds you use.



You got the right type of ammo there. The main thing about a self defence gun is using a round that will push the person coming at you backwards. A bullet that expands fast on impact will do that. A solid hard core bullet will pass through too easy unless it strikes a bone. 

I read some gun magazine not long ago that said the old Colt .45 was and still is the best defensive gun in the world. Its slow but when it hits and expands they claim it will push a 200 lb man backwards. A man coming at you with a knife needs to be pushed backwards after you plant one in him. If he keeps coming after being hit it gets ugly for both..


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

MCW said:


> In Australia that would be called a hollow point. Very messy  Which of course is the idea



Hi Matt.

I think they're the same thing, but I'm not %100 sure. It's been a while since I was really into firearms.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

MCW said:


> You're right Brad. I have a Tikka T3 Stainless Varmint in .25/06 Rem but also a Win Mod 70 in .22/250 40° Ackley Improved with a 1:10 27" Krieger SS barrel. You'd think a 55 Grain V-Max at 4000fps would thump a 100gn .257" Ballistic Tip at 3400fps. Not the case at all. Past 150m the .25/06 eats it and is just as accurate - not bad for a stock, untouched rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> In Australia that would be called a hollow point. Very messy  Which of course is the idea



That model 70 you have, a pre64 model? I had a later model 70, the one everyone screamed was no good, had to get that pre64 one. Ha, it was a 270 and that thing shot GREAT. Best handling deer rifle I ever owned. Anytime the trigger was pulled something died. Very accurate gun that thing was. That one got 60 grains of IMR4831, a Speer 130 grain spitzer hunting round, a Federal primer. That gun loved that load and I never found Speer to be all that great but that gun loved them.

Jack O'Connor, late Sports Afield writer, swore by the Model 70 in 270. He felt it was the best all around hunting gun in the world..


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I read some gun magazine not long ago that said the old Colt .45 was and still is the best defensive gun in the world. Its slow but when it hits and expands they claim it will push a 200 lb man backwards. A man coming at you with a knife needs to be pushed backwards after you plant one in him. If he keeps coming after being hit it gets ugly for both..



That's a .40 cal in my pic

I've seen some testing results between the .40 and .45 and it appears the .40 is as good as the .45, but it was really too close to call. I've been wanting a nice Sig 1911 in .45


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Hi Matt.
> 
> I think they're the same thing, but I'm not %100 sure. It's been a while since I was really into firearms.



They are almost the samething, the hollow point and wadcutter. The slight differance is the wadcutter has more soft lead exposed at the tip. The lead impacts before the copper shell. Doing so the copper shell is being forced to open quickly by the expanding lead pushing back into it. Both leave one nasty mess for someone to clean up..


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> That's a .40 cal in my pic
> 
> I've seen some testing results between the .40 and .45 and it appears the .40 is as good as the .45, but it was really too close to call. I've been wanting a nice Sig 1911 in .45



Any idea how much money John Browning made off his design of the Colt 45, its gotta be a bunch. The 40 and 45 are very close indeed.

I read that a Colt 45 can actually be shot under water and the gun will not be damaged. Not something I'll ever try though.


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 7, 2010)

It's unbelievable how long the  .45 round has been around, It says a lot.


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## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> I read some gun magazine not long ago that said the old Colt .45 was and still is the best defensive gun in the world. Its slow but when it hits and expands they claim it will push a 200 lb man backwards. A man coming at you with a knife needs to be pushed backwards after you plant one in him. If he keeps coming after being hit it gets ugly for both..



You're right Tom. The ideal round is one that can leave all or most of it's energy in the target, not in the wall behind them. Older reports I have on testing stopping power were based on live goats. Can't remember the name of the test but from memory the rounds were tested on mature, similar weighted male Boer Goats. The .45 ACP was always on top as far as handguns go although I'm aware that ammo and some newer calibres may have changed that. The fact remains though that if it would kill you dead in 1965 it'd kill you just as dead now.
Nothing beats a 12 guage close up though. Except for maybe a 10 guage 

Whats going to hurt more, a tennis ball at 100mph or a brick at 40mph? OK, the tennis ball would still hurt 



THALL10326 said:


> That model 70 you have, a pre64 model? I had a later model 70, the one everyone screamed was no good, had to get that pre64 one. Ha, it was a 270 and that thing shot GREAT. Best handling deer rifle I ever owned. Anytime the trigger was pulled something died. Very accurate gun that thing was. That one got 60 grains of IMR4831, a Speer 130 grain spitzer hunting round, a Federal primer. That gun loved that load and I never found Speer to be all that great but that gun loved them.
> Jack O'Connor, late Sports Afield writer, swore by the Model 70 in 270. He felt it was the best all around hunting gun in the world..



Nah my Model 70 is after '64. There is a lot of hype about the older actions. I've seen and shot a few but to be honest you get good ones and bad ones, just like post '64 Mod 70's. Mine will shoot 1/2" groups at 100m and even with the old badly pitted, standard blued barrel in plain old .22/250 Rem the Mod 70 would still shoot 1" groups easily. My stock Tikka T3 .25/06 and bedded and floated CZ Model 527 .222 are also good for 1/2" groups at 100m 

My .25/06 loves 100gn Nosler Ballistic Tips, my .22/250 40° Ackley loves 55gn Ballistic Tips or V-Max's, and my .222 loves everything  Although I prefer Speer 50gn TNT for what I use it for.

I haven't done much shooting lately due to chainsaws but I used to do heaps. Mainly kangaroos under permit on farms next to national parks or heritage listed scrubland. All they are is a bloody breeding ground for crop wrecking animals like roos, emus, rabbits, and now goats in my region. I've dropped 10's of 1000's of kangaroos and despite that they're still everywhere - certainly not endangered as many people overseas are led to believe by mobs like PETA.


----------



## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> They are almost the samething, the hollow point and wadcutter. The slight differance is the wadcutter has more soft lead exposed at the tip. The lead impacts before the copper shell. Doing so the copper shell is being forced to open quickly by the expanding lead pushing back into it. Both leave one nasty mess for someone to clean up..



In Australia a wadcutter round is flat fronted and designed to punch a circle of paper out of a target so you can see where your round went and it's easier to score


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

MCW said:


> You're right Tom. The ideal round is one that can leave all or most of it's energy in the target, not in the wall behind them. Older reports I have on testing stopping power were based on live goats. Can't remember the name of the test but from memory the rounds were tested on mature, similar weighted male Boer Goats. The .45 ACP was always on top as far as handguns go although I'm aware that ammo and some newer calibres may have changed that. The fact remains though that if it would kill you dead in 1965 it'd kill you just as dead now.
> Nothing beats a 12 guage close up though. Except for maybe a 10 guage
> 
> Whats going to hurt more, a tennis ball at 100mph or a brick at 40mph? OK, the tennis ball would still hurt
> ...



Well I haven't been into guns in like 25-30 years. Man at one time though we had that RCBS Rockchucker press humming with reloading. I'm not even sure that press is still made. Back in the day it was the standard if you wanted to reload. I do like the notion I can still recall some of my favorite reloads right down to the primer. I'm much older now but my memory still works pretty good. Guns bring back alot of good memories,


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 7, 2010)

*Firearms*

Now why am I not surprised to find guys who want to modify chainsaws also have an interest in gunsmithing and reloading. - I've got enough various cans of powder out in the shed that I can't see me ever using it all up in this lifetime.


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## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> Well I haven't been into guns in like 25-30 years. Man at one time though we had that RCBS Rockchucker press humming with reloading. I'm not even sure that press is still made. Back in the day it was the standard if you wanted to reload. I do like the notion I can still recall some of my favorite reloads right down to the primer. I'm much older now but my memory still works pretty good. Guns bring back alot of good memories,



Yeah I'm the same. Factory ammo is worth a fortune over here. I can reload better rounds for less than half the price of factory stuff. I only buy factory ammo to fire form cases. My gear is all Redding and RCBS.
I use only ADI powders made in Australia and CCI match grade primers. I think these powders are still exported to the US and branded Hodgdon.
I've been that slack lately that despite having 1000's of loaded cases about 12 months ago I've got 1000's of empties instead. I'm even (heaven forbid) considering paying my brother to reload them all for me with my gear 
He shoots competition benchrest so I think I can trust him


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## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> It's unbelievable how long the  .45 round has been around, It says a lot.



Its been around almost 100 years. My oldest brother was a Army Ranger in 1966-68. That was when Nam was really heating up. He was overthere and the stories he brought home were yikes. Took him 20 years though before he would even talk about Nam at all. Anyway this box shows up one day addressed to my mother from him. In it was a marble trophy with a gold figure of a man shooting a pistol mounted on it. He had won the marksman trophy shooting a Army issued Colt 45. He could really shoot a pistol good, I mean real good. Oddly he never cared for a Colt pistol of anykind. He preferred Smith&Wesson revolvers and High Standard .22 caliber target pistols for fun..


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## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

Terry Syd said:


> Now why am I not surprised to find guys who want to modify chainsaws also have an interest in gunsmithing and reloading. - I've got enough various cans of powder out in the shed that I can't see me ever using it all up in this lifetime.



Hope you haven't got more than 10kg Terry  Mr Plod will be angry 

Heh heh.

Well I think 10kg is the most you can have? I've cracked the limit a few times when someone has it cheap and didn't manage to disappear in a mushroom cloud.


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## Terry Syd (Feb 7, 2010)

*Eschelon*

Since this forum is being monitored by the ESCHELON system, no, I don't have more than 10kgs. What I do have is a bunch of cans of a little bit of this and a little bit of that. You know the problem, ya gotta try something different just in case it will tighten the group up a fraction more. Pretty soon you have so many boxes of half used projectiles and partially filled cans of powder you can't find the loading bench.


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## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

Terry Syd said:


> Since this forum is being monitored by the ESCHELON system, no, I don't have more than 10kgs. What I do have is a bunch of cans of a little bit of this and a little bit of that. You know the problem, ya gotta try something different just in case it will tighten the group up a fraction more. Pretty soon you have so many boxes of half used projectiles and partially filled cans of powder you can't find the loading bench.



I didn't mention 10kg of any specific product  Lets see Echelon find them apples 
However I know what you mean. I've given up load testing. I'm happy with what I've come up with now.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

Tom, that's a semi-jacketed hollow point. The middle cartridge in this pic is a wad cutter. It's designed to cut nice scoreable holes in paper targets. I reloaded for 10 years or so before jumping hobbies again. --Ian


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## wigglesworth (Feb 7, 2010)

Ah Phooey..... Real men shoot Blackpowder.....







3 shot group at 100 yards.


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## ericjeeper (Feb 7, 2010)

You guys and your light weight bullets.. My favorite rifle has to be my 1895 Marlin 45/70 government. Shoots a 425 grain bullet. It will knock a hole in a hog that looks like a fence post hole. It might not be the fastest out of the barrel..But it sure does have some whammy on the stopping end.
I picked up a Marlin 336 30/30 last week have not even got it dialed in.. I have to this week as we are going hoggin in South Carolina next weekend.


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## wigglesworth (Feb 7, 2010)

That group I posted is with 250 Barnes MZ and 120gr of loose T7 at around 2100 fps. Like Eric said, not fast, but man they pack a punch. Id say it would work well on some hog's. That gun also likes the 300gr Hornady's too.


----------



## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> You guys and your light weight bullets.. My favorite rifle has to be my 1895 Marlin 45/70 government. Shoots a 425 grain bullet. It will knock a hole in a hog that looks like a fence post hole. It might not be the fastest out of the barrel..But it sure does have some whammy on the stopping end.



They certainly have some grunt those things. Two guys in our gun club bought 45/70's. Both ended up selling them cause they're really only good for tough animals at closer ranges and cost a bit to run. We don't have any game like that needs a calibre that powerful where I am. We have long ranges (as a rule) and easy to kill animals 
Northern Australia where there are Asiatic Buffalo with more wild pigs and the .45/70 would be perfect 

P.S. I like them


----------



## Kemper (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I love about it. A .243 can shoot a 55-58 grain bullet with the same velocity and trajectory a 22-.250 or 220 Swift can a 40 gr bullet. Then if you can throw different ammo in it and go for larger game like antelope, etc. Doesn't get much more versitle than that.




If i had to just keep one gun it would definitely be my .243. We do a lot of coyote hunting and i use reloads consisting of 43 grains of H-380 and 58 grain V-Max bullets, very fast, accurate, and deadly.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what I love about it. A .243 can shoot a 55-58 grain bullet with the same velocity and trajectory a 22-.250 or 220 Swift can a 40 gr bullet. Then if you can throw different ammo in it and go for larger game like antelope, etc. Doesn't get much more versitle than that.



Almost, but not quite. Hard to win a drag race with a 22-250.


*22-250 REM*

40 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 8208 39.0 *4336* 63,500 PSI 

*
243 WIN*


55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H4895 44.5 *4058* 49,300 CUP 


But if you intend to kill anything bigger than a woodchuck then the 243 is one of the best all around chamberings!!!






A hot .22 is in my future, it will be chambered for this:














40 Sierra BlitzKing H322 32.9 MAX Rem 7.5 Lapua 6BR .196 *4100 *


The 22BR will shoot at 95% of the velocity of the 22-250 but do it using only 84% of the powder. A more efficient cartridge with less recoil.


.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice looking bullet design. How expensive is a barrel to chamber a rifle for it?


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

mdavlee said:


> Nice looking bullet design. How expensive is a barrel to chamber a rifle for it?




Shilen charges $395 to fit a barrel, which includes minor action work.


.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2010)

That's not too bad.


----------



## wi50 (Feb 7, 2010)

finally something worth reading about in this thread.

I shoot a couple of rifles chambered in 6BR..... a good alternative to a .243 if you handload.

One is my match rifle, Barnard action, Mastin stock and a 31" long 1 in 8 twist Brux barrel. Phoenix rear sight and a Stallings Machine 30mm front. Runs 2920 FPS wiht the 107 Sierra match king. 31 gr of RL15. I've got a switch barrel set up for this rig in 6.5X55 Swede for any long range or dedicated 1000 yd use, but I've never screwed it on yet.

Any of you fella's shoot any long range matches?

The other is a Winchester m70 short action, H&S stock, I spun up a Bartlein 1 in 8 twist barrel for it. 24" long and I run a SAS 30cal suppressor on the end. (sounds like shooting a 22LR.) A friend of mine sold me a couple of Schmidt&Bender PMll 5-25 X56 scopes at a pretty reasonable price so I put one on this rig. 

I've fit up a lot of barrels for people from Texas to Washington. Do a fair share of 6.5X47 Lapua's, .223AI, 6BR, 6X47 Lapua, .308, .260 and .338 Lapua mag are the most popular.

Some of the most fun I have is when I go to western Nebraska for the FCSA (fifty cal shooters assn.) matches out there. The fella's that run the range are big into black powder cartrage rifles, so with a little luck on fridays before our match we get to have some fun time. Shooting the 45-70 at a steel gong 800 yds away is a blast. Takes a little over 3 seconds for the bullet to hit it and see the splat in the spotting scope.


----------



## wi50 (Feb 7, 2010)

mdavlee said:


> Nice looking bullet design. How expensive is a barrel to chamber a rifle for it?



Most premium quality barrels will run $265-$320 depending on who's. Large contours add to cost, extra length adds also. Budget yourself $300 I like cut rifled barrels for several reasons.

Trueing an action, depending on what action it is, who's doing the work and how they do it will run $100-$200, elective by you, but when you see how far out of square some of these factory production actions are you'll wonder why some shoot as good as they do. It's a lot of work and special tooling to get the tennion threads square and concentric to the bolt bore and get the locking ring square to the bore, then cut the locking lugs and bolt face square to the bolt body.

Chambering and fitting a barrel is $150-$300 depending on who and what else is getting done. For example it takes time to cut threads for a muzzle brake or suppressor and can add $50 from certain smiths.


All of this is dependent on your final goal with the rifle. I've shot my share of $400 Savages and $4000 custom rifles. Won matches with both, and not shot so well with both.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

THALL10326 said:


> That model 70 you have, a pre64 model? I had a later model 70, the one everyone screamed was no good, had to get that pre64 one. Ha, it was a 270 and that thing shot GREAT. Best handling deer rifle I ever owned. Anytime the trigger was pulled something died. Very accurate gun that thing was. That one got 60 grains of IMR4831, a Speer 130 grain spitzer hunting round, a Federal primer. That gun loved that load and I never found Speer to be all that great but that gun loved them.
> 
> Jack O'Connor, late Sports Afield writer, swore by the Model 70 in 270. He felt it was the best all around hunting gun in the world..



Funny you say that Tom. I have a Pre-'64 model 70 myself, and it just so happens that it is chambered for .270WIN...great minds think alike...


.


----------



## wi50 (Feb 7, 2010)

Mine's a post '64 classic, .270, left hand. 

I'm a lefty but love my winchesters and claw extracters so it had eo be a "classic" model. There were a few lefties made and a little harder to come by but available.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I gotta little plastic gun for that myself.





Andyshine77 said:


> That's a .40 cal in my pic
> 
> I've seen some testing results between the .40 and .45 and it appears the .40 is as good as the .45, but it was really too close to call. I've been wanting a nice Sig 1911 in .45








A little plastic myself....also in .40S&W









...or some stainless and aluminum if you prefer..._357SIG_









And this neat piece from the the former Soviet Union










.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

wi50 said:


> Mine's a post '64 classic, .270, left hand.
> 
> I'm a lefty but love my winchesters and claw extracters so it had eo be a "classic" model. There were a few lefties made and a little harder to come by but available.



My brother is cross dominant(right handed-left eyed) and shoots left handed.

He just picked up a Rem.700BDL 30-'06 for a killer deal. I put a Rifle Basix trigger in it for him and he loves it!


.


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 7, 2010)

from left to right. 55gr .223, 45 acp,.357, 45 LC, 200 gr SST,380gr 45/70LE, 426 gr 45/70, 425 gr .458, 380 gr .458


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2010)

I love my Marlin 1895 45-70. . . Though I'd prefer a 45-110 or 45-120 to get more reach. I also shoot a .444 Marlin -- it's a New England Arms cheapy that was originally chambered in .44 Mag. My dad bought it for my birthday one year, it's their $99 single shot break open. The barrel had enough meat, so dad had a local smith re-chamber it in .444. For the cheap cost, it's a very accurate rifle.

I also like my .338 Win Mag. . . It's a Kimber with a original Mauser 98 action. It'll hold a minute of angle at 200 fairly easy, and knock down anything we grow up in NW Montana.

All the 1,000 yd. guys here got away from 30 cal years ago, and only shoot wildcat 6mm now. One fella I know holds 6 world Records.

If you research it, my neck of the woods has some of the most renown gun smiths and manufacturers in the world. . . As well as some renown fletchers', bowyers', and archers'.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

I had a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70 that I had pushed out to 45-90 and intended to shoot black in it, but between not having any place convenient to shoot long range and the tedious process of loading black powder cartridges and cleaning the rifle afterwards, I gave that up and sold it. I had a Smith ladder site on it.

Ian


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I had a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70 that I had pushed out to 45-90 and intended to shoot black in it, but between not having any place convenient to shoot long range and the tedious process of loading black powder cartridges and cleaning the rifle afterwards, I gave that up and sold it. I had a Smith ladder site on it.
> 
> Ian



I've shot black in the Marlin. . . Tedious is an understatement. Corrosive stuff that it is, it was still fun to shoot.

It wants to push for recoil, instead of kick.

Me and my older bro were dads reloading guinea pigs. He'd load some hot and some medium and some low. . . Then he wouldn't tell us which was which. It was a big ol surprise when you chambered a hot one. 

Dad would laugh his ass off.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 7, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Tom, that's a semi-jacketed hollow point. The middle cartridge in this pic is a wad cutter. It's designed to cut nice scoreable holes in paper targets. I reloaded for 10 years or so before jumping hobbies again. --Ian



That proves I haven't fooled with guns in 25-30 years, your 100% right. Its been a long time, getting my bullets mixed up, my terms mixed up. I used to know my bullets but clearly not anymore. Semi hollow point, not wadcutter, thanks man,


----------



## Terry Syd (Feb 7, 2010)

*45/70*

The 45/70 is the cartridge that has a loading table for virtually any powder that exists. A 425 grain cast load (bore riding nose) with 57.5 grns of W748 will handle anything in Oz with authority. Although my favourite load was a 400 grn cast load with 29 grns of IMR 2207 - subsonic and accurate. For smaller game, to maximise the energy transfer of those high momentum slugs, cast the bullets with a cigarette paper clamped in the forward 1/3 of the mould.

To cut the fouling down with black powder, try duplexing the black powder with some 4759. I used 7 grns of 4759 behind 70 grns of FFg in my Snider-Enfield and cut the fouling down by about half. It doesn't take much, but watch for pressure.


----------



## edisto (Feb 7, 2010)

wigglesworth said:


> Ah Phooey..... Real men shoot Blackpowder.....



Ah phooey...real blackpowder men shoot flintlocks.


----------



## brncreeper (Feb 7, 2010)

750 grain bullets have a "haymaker kick" to shoot, these 800's are worse yet.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

I like the gun and how it handles. I don't like the cartridge which is 7mm Rem Mag.



Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

I really don't care to know how many hours I have wearing these. Only thing missing from the pictures is the knives.



Mr. HE


----------



## indiansprings (Feb 7, 2010)

+1 on the old Pre-64's got around 26 of them last time I counted. My two favorites are a four digit pre-war .257 Roberts and a .264 Win Mag Westerner.
My favorite factory rifles are H.S. Precision out of Rapid City, SD have a .300 Short Mag that shoots .33 inch 5 shot groups, but the rifle I shoot most is the 22-250 Ackley Improved that I did myself, Model 7 Remington Action with Schneider Stainless 26" barrel, virtually one hole groups, hell on prairie dogs, coyotes, and any other vermin I choose to pull the trigger on, carries a 6x18 swarvoski scope, killed several prairie dogs in the 750-790 yard range. That's why I own a Bridgeport mill and a lathe, do all my own anymore.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

wigglesworth said:


> Ah Phooey..... Real men shoot Blackpowder.....



Here's my 50 cal Thompson Center.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Now here's a real revolver. I've owned two just like this one, and sold them both. You know how the hobby thing goes. Can't afford it all.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

I probably should have kept this beautiful Springfield TRP.











No that's a hole!


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

This one keeps me safe at night. It's a work in progress. I hand checkered the front strap, installed the bob tail, beveled the mag well, installed all Ed Brown Hard Core components, installed and fine tuned C&S firing components, etc...


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Ian, here's some more pics from the new camera. These were taken with my 70-300 IS. It's no 100-400 L, but it's pretty good none the less. These were all shot zoomed all the way out to 300mm.

















These are crops.


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## tdi-rick (Feb 7, 2010)

MCW said:


> [snip]
> 
> My .25/06 loves 100gn Nosler Ballistic Tips, my .22/250 40° Ackley loves 55gn Ballistic Tips or V-Max's, and my .222 loves everything  Although I prefer Speer 50gn TNT for what I use it for.
> 
> [snip]



Geez Matt, you've gone and made me all nostalgic. I thought I'd put my rifle toting days behind me. :greenchainsaw:
I used to roll my own and used either Nosler Ballistic tips for the light stuff, and Partitions for the bigger stuff, mainly when I went after Deer.

Did the trip to the South Island of NZ in '93 and took Partitions, possibly the best 10 days in my life, unfortunately didn't go bush again for years after as I wrecked my knees.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

Good stuff. I have that 75-300 non IS that normally goes for $150. That's what I used on the cardinal. It was maxed out at 300 also and shot through the kitchen window.

Ian


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Good stuff. I have that 75-300 non IS that normally goes for $150. That's what I used on the cardinal. It was maxed out at 300 also and shot through the kitchen window.
> 
> Ian



The 70-300 IS is a completely different lens than the non IS version. You'll find the IS version has a lot better glass. This lens replaced the 75-300 IS, which was not near as good. If you ever get your hands on a 100-400, you'll never be totally happy with anything else. I'd just like to see it replaced with a twist zoom version. I wasn't real wild of the push/pull zoom. Some really like it though.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

I've been rolling my own for years. 

Did some .45 Super stuff for a time. That was a blast. Getting 1200+fps out of a 230gr hp is very satisfying. That load made bowling pins jump off the table out of shear terror. lol

I've rolled my 5.56 Nato for a long time for the AR's. I've done a bit with the heavier rifle calibers, but not enough to say I know anything yet.

I didn't save any money reloading, but I like to think I get more shooting done for the same amount of money.



Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

I think this thread has evolved to show that we all have far more in common than just chainsaws.


And frankly, with this many guns floating around everyone should be very polite to each other.



Mr. HE


----------



## brncreeper (Feb 7, 2010)

This could go on for days. 
One un-fired, cherry cased, commemorative.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

brncreeper, that made my mouth water and my hands slightly unsteady.:blush:



Mr. HE


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## Tzed250 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> This one keeps me safe at night. It's a work in progress. I hand checkered the front strap, installed the bob tail, beveled the mag well, installed all Ed Brown Hard Core components, installed and fine tuned C&S firing components, etc...






Super nice work on the frame Brad





This is the fitting and stippling that I did to the grips on my IZH-35m Target pistol.













.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 7, 2010)

*Sad news*

http://www.charlesdaly.com/


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> This is the fitting and stippling that I did to the grips on my IZH-35m Target pistol.



Thanks, and very nice work on yours as well I think I'll go take some pics of some of my others


----------



## MCW (Feb 7, 2010)

tdi-rick said:


> Geez Matt, you've gone and made me all nostalgic. I thought I'd put my rifle toting days behind me. :greenchainsaw:
> I used to roll my own and used either Nosler Ballistic tips for the light stuff, and Partitions for the bigger stuff, mainly when I went after Deer.
> 
> Did the trip to the South Island of NZ in '93 and took Partitions, possibly the best 10 days in my life, unfortunately didn't go bush again for years after as I wrecked my knees.



Yeah I like the Partitions Rick but pretty pricey and not necessary where I am. Had a couple of hundred of them at one stage but loaded them all and shot them away 
I've shot a fair few Red Deer and never needed anyhting more than a 100gn Ballistic Tip but no running away shots. All chest, neck and head. These were just ferals on farmland, certainly not stalking and hunting. All carrying ticks and wrecking fences.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> I really don't care to know how many hours I have wearing these. Only thing missing from the pictures is the knives.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



You a State man?


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> You a State man?




State?:jawdrop: (Turns head and spits.)


I'm county.

I still have the hat but they changed our colors from brown to green. Now the hats are black.

It was fun to say "What can brown do for you today?" 

Saying "What can green do for you today?" just doesn't have the same sound. lol








Mr. HE


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 7, 2010)

I just got back in from setting the scope on my 45/70. Using Hornady lever evolution ammo. That stuff is hot. I added another knot to my forehead with the scope
I had it set pretty close for my handloaded .425 grain flatnose bullets.. But it was shooting way high at 100 with these .380 grain rubber tipped speedsters...


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> State?:jawdrop: (Turns head and spits.)
> 
> 
> I'm county.
> ...



Hey now, Staties aren't all bad! LOL

County seems like it would be waaay funner though. A lot of my school buddies are now City or County. . . I tested for MHP back in the late 90's, when the testing was actually the most stringent in the country, and they weren't scraping the bottom of the barrel for help. 

LEO pay sure does suck for what you have to do though. . . I talked to a Trooper gone County (retired from there) from WA. . . He said his first month on the job as a Statie he got stabbed. Tank but no tanks.

A lot of LEO's I have talked to have (or want to) switch to Warden work. . . They get paid more, have broader enforcement capabilities. . . And they get to work out in the woods.

Thanks for serving and protecting!


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 7, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> I just got back in from setting the scope on my 45/70. Using Hornady lever evolution ammo. That stuff is hot. I added another knot to my forehead with the scope
> I had it set pretty close for my handloaded .425 grain flatnose bullets.. But it was shooting way high at 100 with these .380 grain rubber tipped speedsters...



I'm a bit of a traditionalist with my Marlin, and shoot it stock iron sites (plus no forehead or eye lesions ). By next year it's gonna be wearing one of these: http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1935.html and I reaaalllly want to try that Leverevolution ammo. I was gonna do it this year, but hunting season snuck up on me, and the rifle was already setup for Remington 405's.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey Brad, do you list your pricey lenses individually on your house insurance?

Ian


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

I got off my butt and took some pictures of some of my others this afternoon.


Verona LX500 12 ga. This is basically an Italian clone of a Browning 525 Sporting. I had the barrels Magnaported and the forcing cones lenthened. I cut the stock, installed some weight, and fitted the Kick-Eez.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Remington 11-87 12 ga. 30" full choke trap barrel, 28" field load barrel", 26 skeet barrel, and fully rifled cantilevered scoped slug barrel. The fancy stock was bought online and I had it cut and made adjustable by a local gunsmith. The forearm on it is stock. I've got a nice one that needs finished yet.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Ruger Mark II Target .22. This is the competition slab side model.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Ruger 10-22 I built.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Stag Arms AR-15. I built this from scratch. It's setup for varminting. It's a fluted unlined barrel. I was more concerned about accuracy than longevity. I will not be using it for rapid fire anyway. I'd like to put a nice stock on it yet. Fluted h-bar, light single-stage trigger, 4-14 mil-dot side focus scope, Yankee Hill floating tube, Vortex flash supressor, Hogue rubber grip.


----------



## matt9923 (Feb 7, 2010)

Ruger- how did you make that. Awesome!! Might attract hippies 
AR-15- automatic?


----------



## catman963 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Stag Arms AR-15. I built this from scratch. It's setup for varminting. It's a fluted unlined barrel. I was more concerned about accuracy than longevity. I will not be using it for rapid fire anyway. I'd like to put a nice stock on it yet. Fluted h-bar, light single-stage trigger, 4-14 mil-dot side focus scope, Yankee Hill floating tube, Vortex flash supressor, Hogue rubber grip.





WOW!! :jawdrop: BAD A$$ Brad!!  I sold an AR years ago - and have been looking to buy another ever since!!! Nice!!


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13 (Feb 7, 2010)

This thread cracked me up!

It went from a bar fight...


to singing Kumbaya...

































to a NRA convention:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 7, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Hey now, Staties aren't all bad! LOL
> 
> County seems like it would be waaay funner though. A lot of my school buddies are now City or County. . . I tested for MHP back in the late 90's, when the testing was actually the most stringent in the country, and they weren't scraping the bottom of the barrel for help.
> 
> ...





State guys are great, I know and respect many of them, we go back and forth with each other but all in good fun.

I like the county because there are wide open spaces, woods, big city, you name it and we play there. If I had to pick one though I'd work in the woods.

Country people are the best. They stop and help others, they don't cry for help at the drop of a hat, and most the time they shoot the bad guy and then call us. lol 

To me the true heros are the guys, like have posted here, who have the tools and determination to defend themselves and their families. I always tell people that we get called after the trouble starts and it's rare we get there in time to make things better for the good guys. 



Mr. HE


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> This thread cracked me up!
> 
> It went from a bar fight...
> 
> ...



Ain't life grand, lol


----------



## parrisw (Feb 7, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> This thread cracked me up!
> 
> It went from a bar fight...
> 
> ...



ha ha LOL, I was thinking the same thing. 

YMCA music playing now!! LOL


----------



## cpr (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Stag Arms AR-15. I built this from scratch. It's setup for varminting. It's a fluted unlined barrel. I was more concerned about accuracy than longevity. I will not be using it for rapid fire anyway. I'd like to put a nice stock on it yet. Fluted h-bar, light single-stage trigger, 4-14 mil-dot side focus scope, Yankee Hill floating tube, Vortex flash supressor, Hogue rubber grip.



Nice, Brad. Fellow black smoke-poler here.

Armalite M-15A4(T) with factory 2-stage trigger, a Brownells pistol grip, 3 lb. lead butt stock weight, Leupold VX-III 4.5x14 tactical 1/4 moa mil dot with sunshade, Harris bipod. I can pretty much write my name with it at any distance. She's built heavy for benchrest or prone. Way too heavy for offhand even when you sling up with the coat on... This along with a Browning Hi-Power Practical .40s&w with Hogue grips are the main squeezes around here... there are others...

Business in the front






Window seat





The furniture, fits me nice. Considered a 3 way butt plate and if I ever convert this gun to Hi-Power spec, I'll add it.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

Very nice!


----------



## brncreeper (Feb 7, 2010)

cpr said:


> Nice, Brad. Fellow black smoke-poler here.
> 
> Armalite M-15A4(T) with factory 2-stage trigger, a Brownells pistol grip, 3 lb. lead butt stock weight, Leupold VX-III 4.5x14 tactical 1/4 moa mil dot with sunshade, Harris bipod. I can pretty much write my name with it at any distance. She's built heavy for benchrest or prone. Way too heavy for offhand even when you sling up with the coat on... This along with a Browning Hi-Power Practical .40s&w with Hogue grips are the main squeezes around here...



Nice, now you need a honey comb shade on the front of that mildot scope. 
I like the highpower too, it's my choice for CCW.


----------



## stihlboy (Feb 7, 2010)

ya'll are a bunch of ADHD stricken mother ####ers i tell ya, first pistons to snow to guns. its hard to keep up!


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

stihlboy said:


> ya'll are a bunch of ADHD stricken mother ####ers i tell ya...



Whe me?????????????????:greenchainsaw:


----------



## stihlboy (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Whe me?????????????????:greenchainsaw:



slightly........................









only slightly


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 7, 2010)

*all this time my wife thought I was one of a kind.*

I have been into so many different hobbies over the past 22 years of our married life.
radio control airplanes, then boats.. then snowsleds,then photography, then Jeeps.. Now guns and chainsaws.. Oh wait now is also New bassboat and fishing..
I just thank the good lord that I have a very understanding wife. I have spent literally tens of thousands of dollars on toys over the years..
And just think Valentines day is next Sunday.. and where will I be? Hog Hunting in South Carolina...


----------



## cpr (Feb 7, 2010)

brncreeper said:


> Nice, now you need a honey comb shade on the front of that mildot scope.
> I like the highpower too, it's my choice for CCW.



100% agree. For summer weight clothing, I'd prefer a Walther PPS. That's coming...


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2010)

rc airplanes - Yes
rc boats - Dad does
snowsleds - Quads
photography - Yes
Jeeps - Trucks
guns - Yes
chainsaws - Yes

I have to add computers to the mix.

I see a theme here


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 7, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> rc airplanes - Yes
> rc boats - Dad does
> snowsleds - Quads
> photography - Yes
> ...



Chainsaws collected over 4 Years.
Cameras about 6 years. (Nikon Mostly)
Firearms 40+ years (Don't Ask)
Diesel Trucks, Just For Fun.


----------



## stihlboy (Feb 8, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> rc airplanes - Yes
> rc boats - Dad does
> snowsleds - Quads
> photography - Yes
> ...



rc cars- about 50 of them
quad- yes
cameras- 3
cars- 3- 
guns- over 10
saws- over 30


holy crap!


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 8, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> rc airplanes - Yes
> rc boats - Dad does
> snowsleds - Quads
> photography - Yes
> ...



Rc and computers eh? have you ever flown the friendly skies of Microsoft Flight Simulator?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 8, 2010)

rc airplanes - not yet
rc boats - yes
Trials motorcycles - yes
photography - Yes
guns - Yes
chainsaws - Yes
Computers- yes

I also did a lot hiking when I was in my 20's I took this pick on a long hike about 8 years back.






Birds of a feather flock together.


----------



## brncreeper (Feb 8, 2010)

airplane - Private, Instrument, Commercial
snowmobile - yep
photography - yep
Jeeps - Trucks
guns - yep
chainsaws - yep


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 8, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> rc airplanes - not yet
> rc boats - yes
> Trials motorcycles - yes
> photography - Yes
> ...


That is gorgeous, where is it


----------



## MCW (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm glad this thread has found a happy place.
Now that we're onto guns and photography...

My Tikka T3 Stainless Varmint (5 shot mag) in .25/06 Rem with Bausch & Lomb 4-16x50 Elite 4000 scope.







My Win Mod 70 in .22/250 40° Ackley Improved with 27" Kreiger barrel and Japanese Nikko 4.5-14x50 scope.








My CZ Model 527 in .222 Rem (5 shot mag) with Japanese Nikko 4.5-14x50 scope.






And my Ruger 77/22 with 6x40 Tasco scope. Beautiful little gun and one for the grandkids...






And some photos my fiance took with her Nikon D70 in Tasmania, Australia. Not the best camera around but does the job nicely..

Mount Field National Park.






A Tasmanian Devil. Awesome little creatures but you can see in their eyes that all they want to do is jump out of their enclosure and bite your hand off. One of the toughest jaw strengths of any mammal. You can also see that they like fighting by all their scars. A couple were fighting while we were there. Poor little fella looks depressed! The noise they make is chilling...






And a bit of reflection at a place called Franklin, south of Hobart, Tasmania.






And a big mother of a gum. Not sure of height but pretty tall...


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 8, 2010)

That reflection picture is the best yet. Love the clouds.

Ian


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 8, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> That reflection picture is the best yet. Love the clouds.
> 
> Ian



That Reflection shot is my new desktop background, I hope you don't mind mcw.


----------



## MCW (Feb 8, 2010)

Banacanin said:


> That Reflection shot is my new desktop background, I hope you don't mind mcw.



Fine by me mate  PM me if you want the the 2.5MB version and I'll email it to you.

Here are some more...


















Oh and better chuck a chainsaw one in for good measure. 
Mate using my 3120 on a big pine log...


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 8, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm waiting for him, he better not come my way.



Andy posting your 10/22 made want to show off this one! Check out the wood on this sucker....Had no intentions of buying a 10/22 when I walked into that gun shop and the owner says all excited "check out this 10/22 I just unpacked, I don't get many that look like this one." I says ahhhhh that's going home with me. 

It's all stock except an extended mag release....Those 30 round mags are hard to get out with that factory mag release!


----------



## 2000ssm6 (Feb 8, 2010)

That is a nice looking stock on that 10/22. I'm in the process of building one now for a suppressor host. Tactical Solutions X-Ring reciever, TS threaded bbl, Houge overmold stock and a Volquartsen TG2000 trigger group. All black.

I'm happy to see this went to guns! My desktop is sick right now so no pics on this laptop.


----------



## PB (Feb 8, 2010)

2000ssm6 said:


> That is a nice looking stock on that 10/22. I'm in the process of building one now for a suppressor host. Tactical Solutions X-Ring reciever, TS threaded bbl, Houge overmold stock and a Volquartsen TG2000 trigger group. All black.
> 
> I'm happy to see this went to guns! My desktop is sick right now so no pics on this laptop.



I just had a 10/22 given to me, it is beat up pretty good. I don't have a need for a 4th .22 so I was thinking about selling it. The 10/22 is much nicer than the Rem 597. The 597 is the biggest piece of #### gun I have ever purchased. I wouldn't wish that thing on my worst enemy.


----------



## wvlogger (Feb 8, 2010)

i havemy 460 i fall timber with


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 8, 2010)

2000ssm6 said:


> That is a nice looking stock on that 10/22. I'm in the process of building one now for a suppressor host. Tactical Solutions X-Ring reciever, TS threaded bbl, Houge overmold stock and a Volquartsen TG2000 trigger group. All black.
> 
> I'm happy to see this went to guns! My desktop is sick right now so no pics on this laptop.



Yea, I just happened to walk in the door at the right time .....If not me, the next guy in the door probably would have bought it. I guess the sun even shines on a dogs ass some days.....lol

Sounds like you have a fun project going there!.....I wouldn't mind having another one to trick out (this one I'm leaving alone) but too many other projects ahead of that.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 8, 2010)

wvlogger said:


> i havemy 460 i fall timber with



The _Ma-Deuce_ works pretty good for that too!


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 8, 2010)

Fastcast said:


> The _Ma-Deuce_ works pretty good for that too!



I wonder if he was offering the saw for the piston test?


It would bring this thread full circle. lol



Mr. HE


----------



## spacemule (Feb 8, 2010)

I've always thought the 10/22 is the best value as far as price, dependability, and usability in a small rimfire gun. They're balanced well, they draw a bead quickly, not nose heavy, and they are reliable in that they shoot cheap ammunition with no problems. I put a few thousand rounds through the one I had, and never had a misfire. Can't say the same for my Marlin. The Marlin tube feed I had (my first gun, dad bought it for me) would misfire half the time on cheap ammo. I went to CCI mini mags, and it did much better. Nowhere near as good as the Ruger though.


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*Spent alot of money over the years too....*

QUOTE=ericjeeper;2020118]I have been into so many different hobbies over the past 22 years of our married life.
radio control airplanes, then boats.. then snowsleds,then photography, then Jeeps.. Now guns and chainsaws.. Oh wait now is also New bassboat and fishing..
I just thank the good lord that I have a very understanding wife. I have spent literally tens of thousands of dollars on toys over the years..
And just think Valentines day is next Sunday.. and where will I be? Hog Hunting in South Carolina...[/QUOTE]

I have alot of hobbies I enjoy,,but I didnt ever think I would get into chainsaws till I got on AS,,and it got worst,milling,,,woodworking...Woodworkin is now something I always wanted to do,,but never could afford buying wood untill I got on here and mill my own now....Bought alot of my equipment used,,,but alot of the old things last forever as long as you take care of it....
Eric metioned boats.....I have a old 1967 Evinrude Sportsman 155 I bought from fleabay years ago....It drove to Spring Lake Mich. to get her..Now,,,here's a history lesson for all the young folks that hear about Evinrude motors now days,,but wonder how many people realized back in the 1960's to the early 1970's that the OMC company not only made engines,,but the hulls as well....Johnson made a Sufer model as Evinrudes twin to it was called a Dolphin....All three was a gull wing design hull....The Sportsman 155 is something that caught my eyes cause it reminds me of a Huey Chopper with the 2 piece widshield,,as where the later 2 has a 3 piece windshield....Also alot of people that runs Mcculloch saws dont realize,,that Robert Mcculloch and Ralph Evinrude was inlaws....Mcculloch made a few outboard engines for a few short years.He was also makin drone engines,,turbo chargers for cars... I just love old things,,and restoring them...I just wanted to share.....Last pic. is of my friends Sportsman155 front view...Give you a idea of the beautiful design they made....


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 8, 2010)

how about drywall??


----------



## FATGUY (Feb 8, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> how about drywall??



nice work!


----------



## gink595 (Feb 8, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> how about drywall??



Hey I seen on this one forum a guy was telling how to install Drywall, did you learn that from him:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 8, 2010)

Wow! Lots of beautiful pics and firearms. And you can come "play" with your drywall skills in my basement


----------



## Boleclimber (Feb 8, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Hey I seen on this one forum a guy was telling how to install Drywall, did you learn that from him:hmm3grin2orange:



I learned to punch a hole through dry wall when locating windows


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 8, 2010)

Boleclimber said:


> I learned to punch a hole through dry wall when locating windows


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 8, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> nice work!



Thanks, I'm going to spray the ceilings tonight between 11 and ??(1,850sf)
i'll shoot pics tomorrow.
I like to do the messy stuff when Nobody is around.
Tyvex coveralls rock!


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 8, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Hey I seen on this one forum a guy was telling how to install Drywall, did you learn that from him:hmm3grin2orange:



Was that the same guy I suggested to use a hilti to hold his drywall up?


----------



## gink595 (Feb 8, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> Was that the same guy I suggested to use a hilti to hold his drywall up?



Yeah thats the one....hahahaha. Good times


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> I have alot of hobbies I enjoy,,but I didnt ever think I would get into chainsaws till I got on AS,,and it got worst,milling,,,woodworking...Woodworkin is now something I always wanted to do,,but never could afford buying wood untill I got on here and mill my own now....Bought alot of my equipment used,,,but alot of the old things last forever as long as you take care of it....
> Eric metioned boats.....I have a old 1967 Evinrude Sportsman 155 I bought from fleabay years ago....It drove to Spring Lake Mich. to get her..Now,,,here's a history lesson for all the young folks that hear about Evinrude motors now days,,but wonder how many people realized back in the 1960's to the early 1970's that the OMC company not only made engines,,but the hulls as well....Johnson made a Sufer model as Evinrudes twin to it was called a Dolphin....All three was a gull wing design hull....The Sportsman 155 is something that caught my eyes cause it reminds me of a Huey Chopper with the 2 piece widshield,,as where the later 2 has a 3 piece windshield....Also alot of people that runs Mcculloch saws dont realize,,that Robert Mcculloch and Ralph Evinrude was inlaws....Mcculloch made a few outboard engines for a few short years.He was also makin drone engines,,turbo chargers for cars... I just love old things,,and restoring them...I just wanted to share.....Last pic. is of my friends Sportsman155 front view...Give you a idea of the beautiful design they made....





Nice boat. Here is mine. Its a 1964 Johnson Tri-hull.


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 8, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Yeah thats the one....hahahaha. Good times



I think of him everytime I see some dorky guy hitting on a cashier. 
Mabye before I make my paint run tonight I'll post a few over there to get their thongs in a twist.


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*Me,,I hate drywallin....*

I did it once,,the stuff is heavy,,,gotta big gap to mud,,well,,,I'm lost there especially to do corners,,and make it all sand down to look even...Stipes would never be a carpenter.....I just dont have the patience for that....


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Nice boat. Here is mine. Its a 1964 Johnson Tri-hull.



Sweet 1964!!! Tryed to give ya rep for that but it wouldnt let me.....Pullin mine is like tryin to pull a Cat. Dozer....It's that heavy.... Thanks for the pic...Nice................


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> I did it once,,the stuff is heavy,,,gotta big gap to mud,,well,,,I'm lost there especially to do corners,,and make it all sand down to look even...Stipes would never be a carpenter.....I just dont have the patience for that....



It's all about hiring good finishers, Mexicans have ruined the market here so, good finishers are easily hired, if you actually pay a decent wage. I sub all my boardwork out at .85/ft five years ago it was $1.10/ft I've heard the tacos are doing it at .65/ft


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> Sweet 1964!!! Tryed to give ya rep for that but it wouldnt let me.....Pullin mine is like tryin to pull a Cat. Dozer....It's that heavy.... Thanks for the pic...Nice................



Thanks. Mine seems to be a light boat. Its 17' and its got a 1984 Johnson 115hp on it. Moves it along pretty good.


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*Let me know if I'm wrong,,but....*



parrisw said:


> Thanks. Mine seems to be a light boat. Its 17' and its got a 1984 Johnson 115hp on it. Moves it along pretty good.



Your's look like to be the Johnson Deluxe Runabout ,,made from 1962 to 1969.The full wrap windshield....The first models had this cut out in the middle in front of the bow..Yours is a very,,very nice example of now days that people dont see of what OMC put into their design so many years ago...

I take that back..Evinrude sweet 16......I kept lookin at the hul line......Yours gotta be a Evinrude hull....


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 8, 2010)

*as long as we are showing off toys*





It is a bit more modern. Has a 150 merc on the back. Not a race boat but they are for fishing not racing anyhow.It will run low 60s


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> Your's look like to be the Johnson Deluxe Runabout ,,made from 1962 to 1969.The full wrap windshield....The first models had this cut out in the middle in front of the bow..Yours is a very,,very nice example of now days that people dont see of what OMC put into their design so many years ago...
> 
> I take that back..Evinrude sweet 16......I kept lookin at the hul line......Yours gotta be a Evinrude hull....



Nope is a Johnson Canadian Deluxe. Check this out.

http://www.ultimate.com/omc-boats/index.html#gallery


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 8, 2010)

I could be totally wrong about this but that looks a lot like one of the small boats in the James Bond movie Thunderball. I'll have to see if there is some info on that online.



Mr. HE


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> I could be totally wrong about this but that looks a lot like one of the small boats in the James Bond movie Thunderball. I'll have to see if there is some info on that online.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



I think the one your thinking of is a Glastron CV model. That's what Bond used.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> It is a bit more modern. Has a 150 merc on the back. Not a race boat but they are for fishing not racing anyhow.It will run low 60s



That's still pretty quick. I'm hoping to get 50mph outa mine.


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*The hull line had me confused...*



parrisw said:


> That's still pretty quick. I'm hoping to get 50mph outa mine.



I can get 40mph outta mine ,,and thats good for she's heavy....Funny thing about these boats,,and you tell me if I'm wrong,,you can turn em on a dime....I dont think you can flip one unless it's modded.....I did some insane turns with mine and it hugs the water....


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 8, 2010)

parrisw said:


> I think the one your thinking of is a Glastron CV model. That's what Bond used.





I guess my Bing.com foo is weak today. I can't seem to find what kind of boat it was. 

The one I'm thinking of is used by the bad guys to chase Bond after he has taken pictures of the underside of the Disco Volante. They have tossed the grenades at him while he is swimming away. Then they chase him to the big catamaran in the boat and hit his scuba tank with the prop.

I'll keep looking.


Mr. HE


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*It was...*



parrisw said:


> I think the one your thinking of is a Glastron CV model. That's what Bond used.



A 1965-66 sports Evinrude outboard used in that film...


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*The windshield tells it all...*

Evinrude had a classic design that noone ever copyied,,noone ever will...


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> A 1965-66 sports Evinrude outboard used in that film...



Is that the LLoyd Bridges diving mask in pic 1??


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> I can get 40mph outta mine ,,and thats good for she's heavy....Funny thing about these boats,,and you tell me if I'm wrong,,you can turn em on a dime....I dont think you can flip one unless it's modded.....I did some insane turns with mine and it hugs the water....



Mine GPS'd at 40mph with the old dead motor, it was a 1980 Johnson 115 with 1 dead cylinder. Now its got a 1984 Johnson 115 that is very nice. Turns ya. It turns real nice, only thing with mine is, I think the engine is too high, I have to throttle back bite in the turn then throttle back on, otherwise I get some pretty good prop slip.





stipes said:


> Evinrude had a classic design that noone ever copyied,,noone ever will...



Yup, I love it now, kinda thought it was an ugly duckling when I got it, but I really like it now. All that line of boats are very cool.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 8, 2010)

I GPS'd my 14' flat bottom john boat at 19kts with a 20hp johnson. Sold that boat. Just didn't use it enough.

Ian


----------



## stipes (Feb 8, 2010)

*I have a 20 HP Johnson in my garage...*



Haywire Haywood said:


> I GPS'd my 14' flat bottom john boat at 19kts with a 20hp johnson. Sold that boat. Just didn't use it enough.
> 
> Ian



Dad bought it in 1964....I bet I could prime her up and she would fire right up....For a fishing boat just to go out after a days work,,dont have to laod alot of crap in,,just to go go home,,,trow your rod and reel in,,head down to the river,,,lake,,and just to relax for a few hours fishing,,,aint nothing like it....I sold his boat,,was a sears 16 ft. alum v hull,,,but kept the motor....I always regret it nows...


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

stipes said:


> Dad bought it in 1964....I bet I could prime her up and she would fire right up....For a fishing boat just to go out after a days work,,dont have to laod alot of crap in,,just to go go home,,,trow your rod and reel in,,head down to the river,,,lake,,and just to relax for a few hours fishing,,,aint nothing like it....I sold his boat,,was a sears 16 ft. alum v hull,,,but kept the motor....I always regret it nows...



Nice! Fishing is relaxing even if you don't catch anything. I just use this boat for a lake boat, fishing and will be doing some water skiing this year too with the kids.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 8, 2010)

Here is what I caught last time out. 

A nice Cutthroat trout!


----------



## Freehand (Feb 8, 2010)

Here's Howard "Rip" Collins with the world record Brown Trout caught from the Little Red river in central Arkansas....little over 40 lb's:camera:


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 8, 2010)

MCW said:


> Fine by me mate  PM me if you want the the 2.5MB version and I'll email it to you.
> 
> Here are some more...






Nice!!!


I like reflections myself 










.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 8, 2010)

That is gorgeous!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 8, 2010)

John that's an astonishing picture. Where was it taken?


----------



## MCW (Feb 9, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Nice!!!
> 
> 
> I like reflections myself
> ...



That is an awesome picture. My other half loves it too. Excellent stuff.


----------



## Banacanin (Feb 9, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> Nice!!!
> 
> 
> I like reflections myself
> ...



That is simply breathtaking.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2010)

.


Thank you very much guys!!!

The image was made a Little Beaver State Park, about 5 miles from my house. 


<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=37.755312,-81.078694&amp;spn=0.014743,0.02708&amp;t=h&amp;z=16&amp;iwloc=A&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=37.755312,-81.078694&amp;spn=0.014743,0.02708&amp;t=h&amp;z=16&amp;iwloc=A&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>




I went out there just before 6pm late in October and was lucky enough for things to be just right. The man above lets us have these little moments of beauty, and sometimes we are lucky enough to capture them.




.


----------



## Walt41 (Feb 9, 2010)

Back to drywall..ceilings done and almost dry!!! cranked the heat to 80, hopefully paint/trim by the end of the week.

2nd pic is Nov, 4 same spot. man time goes fast!!


----------



## MCW (Feb 9, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> .
> 
> 
> Thank you very much guys!!!
> ...



Aren't you meant to have a little "I am here" arrow on that picture?


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2010)

MCW said:


> Aren't you meant to have a little "I am here" arrow on that picture?



I should have!!!


<iframe width="850" height="700" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.753717,-81.080797&amp;num=1&amp;t=h&amp;sll=37.745551,-81.083744&amp;sspn=0.024968,0.038418&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=37.753683,-81.080818&amp;spn=0.007524,0.016469&amp;z=17&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.753717,-81.080797&amp;num=1&amp;t=h&amp;sll=37.745551,-81.083744&amp;sspn=0.024968,0.038418&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=37.753683,-81.080818&amp;spn=0.007524,0.016469&amp;z=17&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>


I was standing where the green arrow is, shooting ESE with the setting sun over my right shoulder. 

If you like nature/outdoor photography, West Virginia is a nice place to shoot.


.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2010)

.


...and I am easily lured by a nice sunset








.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2010)

Let's warm things up a bit These were all taken in '07 in Destin, FL.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2010)

And lest I forget what's really important...

My little girl's not so little any more






There's that 100-400 F4 IS L for you, Ian


----------



## AUSSIE1 (Feb 9, 2010)

Lol, turned into a photo thread, which is just fine as you can't beat great photo's.

This my desktop.
Taken up at Charlotte's pass last Nov on our bike trip. While I was taking this pic, a gust of wind blew my bike over behind me. 
Snowgum in granite.






Silverton (where Madmax was made) at sunset complete with a dust storm.






Blue Rag track. One of the best tracks of Nth East Victoria.






Mt Selwyn Nth East Vic.






Might start a personnel photo thread in the Off Topic Forum as there is some great pics people need to show and for us to see.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Feb 9, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> There's that 100-400 F4 IS L for you, Ian



By Jiminy, that's a large lens! Maybe too big for my camera bag!

Ian


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> By Jiminy, that's a large lens! Maybe too big for my camera bag!
> 
> Ian



Nearly 1/3 of that is the hood, which can be reversed for storage. You ought to see it extended!


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 9, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Nearly 1/3 of that is the hood, which can be reversed for storage. You ought to see it extended!



My god I hope we are still talking about Glass...


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> My god I hope we are still talking about Glass...



I almost put a disclaimer on that. I wondered who would be the first to take the bait, lol.


----------



## ale (Feb 9, 2010)

Great pics guys....

You Australia guys are killin' me with the beautiful landscapes and the sweet "utes" I have to get back someday...can't really count 2 days in Perth, courtesy of Uncle Sam as a proper visit.

The Mad Max trilogy is my all time favorite also....kid growing up in the 80's I thought I was that dude....I'd love to visit the locations where it was filmed.

good stuff


----------



## AUSSIE1 (Feb 9, 2010)

ale said:


> Great pics guys....
> 
> You Australia guys are killin' me with the beautiful landscapes and the sweet "utes" I have to get back someday...can't really count 2 days in Perth, courtesy of Uncle Sam as a proper visit.
> 
> ...



Silverton is virtually a ghost town bar the pub and a few buildings these days.
An awesome place to visit.


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2010)

. 


Nice Florida Images Brad

What I wouldn't give to be there right now, or in sunny Australia!!!


8 more inches of the white menace forecast tonight


.


----------



## ericjeeper (Feb 9, 2010)

Not a great photo.. But it does defy gravity.. Took this yesterday of my front soffit.





This has to be the funniest photo I have ever taken.


----------



## stihlboy (Feb 9, 2010)

was a digital photo, old computer fried so it was scanned.

still looks good though


----------



## parrisw (Feb 10, 2010)

My self Portrait! 






Taken with this.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 10, 2010)

parrisw said:


> My self Portrait!
> 
> 
> 
> Taken with this.



That's really cool. I thought maybe you'd taken the picture after your brother had set you aloft in a weather balloon that was in the back yard while your dad held a press conference to drum up publicity for his new reality show...


----------



## Erick (Feb 10, 2010)

Well since I missed out on the chainsaw, weedle match, and firearms portion of this thread I guess I'll have to pitch in on the photography part. 

Lest you guys start to think Cannon is the only camera made I'll proudly represent the Nikon group. 






Since we were talking about boats and sunset pics, I'll kill two birds with one stone.

From the bow of my 18' Thunderbird Falcon cruising the lake





OK just the sunset





Reflections ya say?





A few Black Crowned Night Herons fishing at the Falls





Actually I've kinda left the photography to my wife these days and all of these pics are hers. I kinda turned her onto it and then lost interest myself, starting to get back into it a little though.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 10, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> That's really cool. I thought maybe you'd taken the picture after your brother had set you aloft in a weather balloon that was in the back yard while your dad held a press conference to drum up publicity for his new reality show...



ha ha. 

Its a fun hobby, but haven't done it in the last couple years. No time, I used to fly allot with a friend, and he works away allot, so I just kinda got out of it, still have all my stuff, but keep thinking of doing it again.

Here is another, its my inlaws property.


----------



## Erick (Feb 10, 2010)

Her real specialty is macro though it's what she loves to do, that and creative photography.
















Here ya go Brad hows this for a lens???

Taken at 500mm hand held standing in a moving boat doing about 25mph on the ohio river.






*->HERES<- * a link to some of her pics for those who are interested, you'll have to wade a few pages in for some of the better stuff she's been doing a lot of "other" photography lately.


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

Erick said:


> Well since I missed out on the chainsaw, weedle match, and firearms portion of this thread I guess I'll have to pitch in on the photography part.



I LOVE the shot of your little girl. That's an awsome shot. I like the one of the herrings as well.


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

Erick said:


> Her real specialty is macro though it's what she loves to do, that and creative photography.



Wow! She is fabulous!!!


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## Jacob J. (Feb 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Wow! She is fabulous!!!



I think so too...


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

We can all stop posting pictures now, lol. I know I have never taken shots like that!


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## Erick (Feb 10, 2010)

Thanks guys I think shes got a real talent for it and I've tried to get her to do something with it...... moving at her own pace I guess.


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## Banacanin (Feb 10, 2010)

jacob j. said:


> that's really cool. I thought maybe you'd taken the picture after your brother had set you aloft in a weather balloon that was in the back yard while your dad held a press conference to drum up publicity for his new reality show...



how many times do you want me to apologize for doing that


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## wigglesworth (Feb 10, 2010)

Erick said:


>



That is awesome and quite disturbing at the same time. Sweet pics, the one of the little girl is cool too..


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## Erick (Feb 10, 2010)

wigglesworth said:


> That is awesome and quite disturbing at the same time. Sweet pics, the one of the little girl is cool too..



Here's one thats disturbing.... don't look at this one to long if you're drinking or prone to motion sickness. 






There is absolutely NO editing done to this pic it's straight out of the camera.


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## Hddnis (Feb 10, 2010)

Erick said:


> Here's one thats disturbing.... don't look at this one to long if you're drinking or prone to motion sickness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






I've taken some pictures like that totally by accident.:greenchainsaw:



Mr. HE


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## Tzed250 (Feb 10, 2010)

Erick said:


> Here's one thats disturbing.... don't look at this one to long if you're drinking or prone to motion sickness.
> 
> 
> There is absolutely NO editing done to this pic it's straight out of the camera.



Very nice work!!!


.


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## teacherman (Feb 10, 2010)

[QUOTE








[/QUOTE]

Where is Sigourney Weaver when you need her? Quite a shot there.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 10, 2010)

Note to self... don't get your prints at walmart.

What I gave them:






what I got back:


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## Hddnis (Feb 10, 2010)

Haywire, that is ugly! I often wonder if people don't usually take better pictures than they get back from the printers sometimes.

Around here we all use a high end camera store with a photo printing department. Cost is about three times what you pay at Wal Mart, but they get the pictures right and will reprint for free if they don't. They also respect copyrights which can be a problem with other places. I've heard of really good photographs being entered at the county fair by people who printed them for the photographer.



Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

Set up an account at WHCC. They do awesome work.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 10, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> They also respect copyrights which can be a problem with other places. I've heard of really good photographs being entered at the county fair by people who printed them for the photographer.



Makes me wonder how many good photos (not that mine are good) end up for sale at places like stockphoto.com when folk take them to places for prints. Most have never heard of such a thing and would never know the difference.



blsnelling said:


> Set up an account at WHCC. They do awesome work.



I'll check them out. I don't expect to do many prints, just wanted to see how that would look blown up to 8x10. When I had my film camera, I used Seattle Film Works. They gave you a free roll of film with every one you sent in for developing. Buy your film once and never have to buy another roll. 

Ian


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## cpr (Feb 10, 2010)

The digital cameras around here are big box store Canons. Nothing special. However, when I'm at the track, I kick it old school. My grandfather made a living with cameras as a photographer for the Detroit Free Press, Parke Davis Pharmaceuticals, and other places. I have boxes of priceless, irreplaceable cameras, much of which I shall never handle with the skill he did. This one is my favorite at the tracks.

Leica, accept no substitutes...






It works well with no fancy attachments, shot off hand. No light meters either, I try to get a feel for it and adjust as I think I need to. Most of the time, I'm close...

This is my friend's 9300 Super Farm Charlie, Nick, and Tony Capozzo Richmond, MI JD 4010 shot at Croswell, MI 2009




Duane Bowns 6200 Modified New Lothrop, MI single hemi shot at Imlay City, MI 2008




Martin Gentner 8000 Diesel Pro Stock Ruth, MI MXM bodied IH 856 shot at North Branch, MI 2008




Jessica Jacks 6200 TWD Cen-Pe-Co Pair of Jacks Dodge from IN shot at NFMS Louisville, KY 2008


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 10, 2010)

Nice pics CPR.. I like how the brilliant the color is. I guess you get what you pay for when it comes to camera and lens.

Ian


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## cpr (Feb 10, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Nice pics CPR.. I like how the brilliant the color is. I guess you get what you pay for when it comes to camera and lens.
> 
> Ian



True. His lasting gift to me (among others) I suppose. I'd gladly trade all the color prints in the world for him back, though. A true gentleman he was.


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm really hesitant to bore this thread with real saw talk, lol. I've enjoyed all the "off topic" stuff. Anyway, this is Stipes MS440 that he uses for milling. The original P&C are off and are in excellent condition. It's obvious he runs it rich for milling duty. I have since decarboned the piston crown, combustion chamber, and exhaust port. The saw is in excellent condition and will make an excellent test bed for these new pistons. There was not a lot in the exhaust, but a little. I'm still waiting on the Wiseco pistons, so keep your fingers crossed they arrive soon. I leave Sunday afternoon to fly to Orlando for a week of work.


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## cpr (Feb 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I leave Sunday afternoon to fly to Orlando for a week of work.



You guys hiring???


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

I didn't measure squish before tearing it down, but putting it back together without a gasket, squish was only about .005". The metal gasket is about .015". So factory squish was about .020". Compression was 155 PSI. Ring end gaps where .018" and .020".


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## matt9923 (Feb 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I didn't measure squish before tearing it down, but putting it back together without a gasket, squish was only about .005". The metal gasket is about .015". So factory squish was about .020". Compression was 155 PSI. Ring end gaps where .018" and .020".



what do you use to de-carbon it?


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

matt9923 said:


> what do you use to de-carbon it?



Wire brush for the crown and chamber. Make sure you brush off the edge and not onto it. Otherwise, you're liable to ruin the piston. I use a wire brush on a drill for the chamber. Never scratched a cylinder or hurt a piston yet.


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## matt9923 (Feb 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Wire brush for the crown and chamber. Make sure you brush off the edge and not onto it. Otherwise, you're liable to ruin the piston. I use a wire brush on a drill for the chamber. Never scratched a cylinder or hurt a piston yet.



Every try soaking it? Even when I soak I usually end up doing it manually.


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

matt9923 said:


> Every try soaking it? Even when I soak I usually end up doing it manually.



Nope. No reason to really, IMHO. The wire brushes work great for me and have never hurt a thing.


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## Freehand (Feb 10, 2010)

Is that steel wire or brass wire Brad?


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2010)

freehandslabber said:


> Is that steel wire or brass wire Brad?



Believe it or not, steel. I can show you a shot of the cleaned up piston if you'd like. As long as you let the wheel move "off" the crown, you're not going to hurt it.


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## parrisw (Feb 10, 2010)

My personal preference is to not use a wire brush. Simply cause I've seen stuff wrecked by them. Ultra fine glass beads work wonders if you have access to a blast cabinet.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 11, 2010)

They have blast cabinet at work with beads in it. I don't know about carbon, but I tried to use it to get some rust off and it was about worthless. I think they use it to strip paint off of small parts.

Ian


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## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> They have blast cabinet at work with beads in it. I don't know about carbon, but I tried to use it to get some rust off and it was about worthless. I think they use it to strip paint off of small parts.
> 
> Ian



Something wrong there then, they work amazing, if it has ultra fine glass beads, it takes a little longer to take rust off. Either they haven't changed the beads in a long time, or something is wrong with the blaster.


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## BIGBORE577 (Feb 12, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Something wrong there then, they work amazing, if it has ultra fine glass beads, it takes a little longer to take rust off. Either they haven't changed the beads in a long time, or something is wrong with the blaster.



Agree, or the ceramic tip on the gun is worn and spraying too wide, loosing velocity.


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## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Agree, or the ceramic tip on the gun is worn and spraying too wide, loosing velocity.



Good point, I have a few spares of the tips for mine.


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## tdi-rick (Feb 12, 2010)

Looks like I'm going to have to make a few phone calls...

My old kart engine builder from over twenty years ago used a solution he bought in a 20 litre (5 gallon) drum that he just dropped aluminium cylinders and heads into and they emerged immaculately clean, looking pristine and new.
We never had to touch one with a brush, it was magic stuff (and probably banned these days....  )


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## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

tdi-rick said:


> Looks like I'm going to have to make a few phone calls...
> 
> My old kart engine builder from over twenty years ago used a solution he bought in a 20 litre (5 gallon) drum that he just dropped aluminium cylinders and heads into and they emerged immaculately clean, looking pristine and new.
> We never had to touch one with a brush, it was magic stuff (and probably banned these days....  )



Sounds like the old carb cleaner we used to use. It comes in a bucket 20L, and has a basket you soak the carb in. Worked wonders on pistons, I used it all the time for pistons. But you can't get it anymore around here. Was brutal stuff though, even if I could buy it, I wouldn't use it anymore.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 12, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Sounds like the old carb cleaner we used to use. It comes in a bucket 20L, and has a basket you soak the carb in. Worked wonders on pistons, I used it all the time for pistons. But you can't get it anymore around here. Was brutal stuff though, even if I could buy it, I wouldn't use it anymore.



I bought the last 5-gallon bucket of bulk Berryman's carb cleaner that Napa had here about twelve years ago. Even then, it had been sitting about ten years. Just the fumes from that stuff would melt your skin off. I loved it. You could throw an old, crusty 044 muffler in there and the next day it'd come out shiny clean.


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## tdi-rick (Feb 12, 2010)

You're right Will, there are lots of chemicals like that i won't use anymore, lifes too short to have you're body and mind stuffed prematurely by something you can avoid.



Jacob J. said:


> I bought the last 5-gallon bucket of bulk Berryman's carb cleaner that Napa had here about twelve years ago. Even then, it had been sitting about ten years. Just the fumes from that stuff would melt your skin off. I loved it. You could throw an old, crusty 044 muffler in there and the next day it'd come out shiny clean.



JJ, believe it or not I've had good success using good old washing powder at ba pretty strong concentration in a bucket of warm water with crusty, carboned up mufflers.
It seemed to soften all the splooge into a jelly so i could hose it all out.


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## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I bought the last 5-gallon bucket of bulk Berryman's carb cleaner that Napa had here about twelve years ago. Even then, it had been sitting about ten years. Just the fumes from that stuff would melt your skin off. I loved it. You could throw an old, crusty 044 muffler in there and the next day it'd come out shiny clean.



Yup the stuff worked!!!!!! I'll give it that. But the smell, OH MY GOD. You even get a drop of it on you and you'd be smelling it for days. We had a can once that the bottom rotted off, it was sitting on the floor so long, and people washing the floor, it just rusted away, and I'm sure what was inside the can didn't help, the whole can of it ended up all over the shop floor!!!!!!!!!!! You can imagine what it was like, but geeze it worked great, would melt carbon off pistons like it was nobody's business.


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## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

Lately, I just use our industrial jet clean at work, I just use commercial dish washer detergent in it, and with the great heat it has and the pressure, it'll strip carbon off parts fairly well, does an awesome job on alu cylinder heads, and saw parts!!


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 12, 2010)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Agree, or the ceramic tip on the gun is worn and spraying too wide, loosing velocity.



It sprays a round stream about 3/4" across. Don't know what it supposed to be. I do know it hurts when it gets through the glove and hits your skin. The glove has found religion and is now holey.

Ian


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2010)

parrisw said:


> My personal preference is to not use a wire brush. Simply cause I've seen stuff wrecked by them. Ultra fine glass beads work wonders if you have access to a blast cabinet.



When doing a combustion chamber or exhaust port, I assume you mask off the bore some how? Or does it not hurt the NiSi?


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## Hddnis (Feb 12, 2010)

I've only been set up for bead blasting for a short time. It is not like sand blasting at all, which I've done for a few years. 

I've used it to clean plastic, clean the carbon out of the tops of bores, clean up rusted threads on old saws, etc.

I would say that used carefully it won't hurt a plated cylinder. If you held it there and just blasted away then, yeah, in time it will take the plating off.



Mr. HE


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 12, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Set up an account at WHCC. They do awesome work.



I looked at their pricing and they are really set up for professional photographers. I'd have to order quite a few photos to meet their minimum order. The one here and there that I would want a print of would not be feasible through them. I'll probably just have to find someplace locally that I can get quality low volume prints from.

Ian


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## Teslahole (Feb 12, 2010)

So who all is getting these pistons installed in there saws? Is the price still 50 beans?


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## parrisw (Feb 12, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> When doing a combustion chamber or exhaust port, I assume you mask off the bore some how? Or does it not hurt the NiSi?



No, I don't use it on ports, just pistons. But it could be done if you wanted.


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## Hddnis (Feb 12, 2010)

One thing you can do is play with the pressure setting. Lower pressure gives more of cleaning action and will barely mark the surface of aluminum. Higher pressure pounds harder. YMMV


In case I never mentioned it--I love bead blasting.



Mr. HE


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## gink595 (Feb 12, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> When doing a combustion chamber or exhaust port, I assume you mask off the bore some how? Or does it not hurt the NiSi?



You can use crushed walnut shells also. i think Eastwood company sells differnt types of blasting media. Button holes is another one.


EDIT: for you lazy guys 

http://www.eastwood.com/abrasive-blasting/media.html


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I looked at their pricing and they are really set up for professional photographers. I'd have to order quite a few photos to meet their minimum order. The one here and there that I would want a print of would not be feasible through them. I'll probably just have to find someplace locally that I can get quality low volume prints from.
> 
> Ian



I used to print all proofs and enlargements when I was doing weddings.


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2010)

Teslahole said:


> So who all is getting these pistons installed in there saws? Is the price still 50 beans?



The offer's off the table. The 440 piston is going in Stipes milling saw. I already had a 460. I bought an early flat top 066. And I picked up a 72cc cylinder for my 372.


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## Walt41 (Feb 12, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I looked at their pricing and they are really set up for professional photographers. I'd have to order quite a few photos to meet their minimum order. The one here and there that I would want a print of would not be feasible through them. I'll probably just have to find someplace locally that I can get quality low volume prints from.
> 
> Ian



Have you tried shutterfly.com?


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 12, 2010)

I went to their website and had a look around. I liked the fact that the first thing they list as a benefit of membership is, "Our picture storage is *free* and *unlimited*. We *never* delete photos." The bold print is theirs. BUT...

If you click on their service agreement, they say the *exact* opposite.

"Shutterfly reserves the right to cancel the Service or to discontinue accounts that have been inactive for more than 180 days. We may do so at our discretion after sending an email warning to the address you used when you set up your account. If you do not respond to the email within 10 days, *your account and the images contained in it may be removed*.

I think I'll pass and look locally.
Ian


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## Walt41 (Feb 12, 2010)

We have had our shutterfly account for 2yrs and use it for all our house project pictures. I like it because I can control access to them and have books printed on demand.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 12, 2010)

parrisw said:


> My personal preference is to not use a wire brush. Simply cause I've seen stuff wrecked by them. Ultra fine glass beads work wonders if you have access to a blast cabinet.





Haywire Haywood said:


> They have blast cabinet at work with beads in it. I don't know about carbon, but I tried to use it to get some rust off and it was about worthless. I think they use it to strip paint off of small parts.
> 
> Ian





parrisw said:


> Something wrong there then, they work amazing, if it has ultra fine glass beads, it takes a little longer to take rust off. Either they haven't changed the beads in a long time, or something is wrong with the blaster.





*Stihl 066 Mahle cylinder fresh off of production saw:*









*Same cylinder after bead blast:*











I used a piece of 2" bar stock with masking tape wrapped around it and inserted in the bore for protection.




.


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## stipes (Feb 12, 2010)

*Wow!!!*



blsnelling said:


> I'm really hesitant to bore this thread with real saw talk, lol. I've enjoyed all the "off topic" stuff. Anyway, this is Stipes MS440 that he uses for milling. The original P&C are off and are in excellent condition. It's obvious he runs it rich for milling duty. I have since decarboned the piston crown, combustion chamber, and exhaust port. The saw is in excellent condition and will make an excellent test bed for these new pistons. There was not a lot in the exhaust, but a little. I'm still waiting on the Wiseco pistons, so keep your fingers crossed they arrive soon. I leave Sunday afternoon to fly to Orlando for a week of work.



I was always wondering what the old 440 would look like all the way down,,I seen tru exhast and intake view of the piston,,and amazing,,,cause I ran that saw hard...All I ever used was Stihl mix at 45:1 and on the rich side of things,,as some carbon ....Gonna use just Stihl ultra with all new piston at 45:1 and see how the build up is then this fall when we tear it back down...Really excited about how it's gonna hold up,,and isnt gonna do anything diffrent than I always do with my saws...After seein the carbon,,,I wonder how much diffrent running ultra 100% of the time is gonna do...To me,,this is gonna be alot of fun experimenting..


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## Tzed250 (Feb 12, 2010)

.


MS660 top after 6 tanks of Amoco Ultimate mixed with Stihl Ultra:









.


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## stipes (Feb 12, 2010)

*Wow John!!*



Tzed250 said:


> .
> 
> 
> MS660 top after 6 tanks of Amoco Ultimate mixed with Stihl Ultra:
> ...



Thats sweet!!!!


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## Banacanin (Feb 12, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> *Stihl 066 Mahle cylinder fresh off of production saw:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!


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## Hddnis (Feb 12, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> .
> 
> 
> MS660 top after 6 tanks of Amoco Ultimate mixed with Stihl Ultra:
> ...




You do know you are supposed to fill the tank and then run the saw right? Not just fill the tank up and then pour it out again.:greenchainsaw:




Mr. HE


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## Tzed250 (Feb 12, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> You do know you are supposed to fill the tank and then run the saw right? Not just fill the tank up and then pour it out again.:greenchainsaw:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can't get away with anything around you guys.....


.


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## Paul001 (Mar 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What bothers me is the negative attitudes, and down right nastiness of some members here. So it was a bad idea. Fine. I screwed up. But a few of you, and you know who you are, are more interested in taking someone down. And when he's down, you just want to keep kicking. I could suggest some of your motives, but I won't do that. It would just give you trolls more ammunition, like you need any help.
> 
> Others have stated their opinion, no less in favor, but have done so in a prefessional amiable way. Those are the *men *I want to emulate. Why don't you bullies take a few lessons? It would do you good. It would do AS good. Honestly, we don't need you here if that's the kind of attitudes you're going to have.
> 
> ...



Brad, 

This is intended only as an observation. There has been a few threads in the last week or two that you have been as negative/dismissive to newer members, as you claim others are being to you. 

Why? Because someone posted a thread on a topic that had been covered before. Someone posted an unconventionally worded (to put it nicely) thread trying to understand terms. There are others, but those two will do.

I've commented more than once in the last few weeks about the incivility around here has reached an all time high. We're not talking about Gary or a few other crusty old types, were it's just there style...People being out right rude.

You've been around here for sometime. Done some amazing builds/threads that others, including me, have no doubt learned a great deal from. You've freely given of the knowledge you've gained (as many others have), but your style of posting has obviously changed quite a bit.. 

Perhaps a bit of self reflection as to where you came from and where you are trying to get to. 

Would hate to see you become that which you despise.

Think of some of the past posters who answered our silly questions, for the tenth time, with every bit of detail and civility as they had the first time...

Just my simple thoughts.


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## Haywire Haywood (Mar 6, 2010)

Paul, this was a dead thread and the unpleasantness was gone if not forgotten. Thanks for the bump.  There's a reason for the PM system.

Ian


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## wooddog (Mar 6, 2010)

Paul001 said:


> Brad,
> 
> This is intended only as an observation. There has been a few threads in the last week or two that you have been as negative/dismissive to newer members, as you claim others are being to you.
> 
> ...



:agree2::agree2::agree2::agree2:


Reading in the back ground for a couple years and just joining the site this winter. I have read a lot and that is what I do. 
I have to agree with Paul. 
Some are pretty rude now days to the new guys. I just would say they have become full of themselves and think they are above.


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## Paul001 (Mar 6, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Paul, this was a dead thread and the unpleasantness was gone if not forgotten. Thanks for the bump.  There's a reason for the PM system.
> 
> Ian



My apology. I hadn't bothered to look at dates as I was reading through. For some reason it showed up this morning in my watched list, no clue as to how or why as I hadn't read it, in what I now see, was a thread that is over a month old.

Sorry for being so sloppy.

As for PM's I've never been one who sees a reason for having private conversations when the subject addresses an entire group.

Non-the-less the message with regards to civility is fresh and addresses an issue that has been occurring here over the last few weeks.


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## wooddog (Mar 6, 2010)

Tzed250 said:


> *Stihl 066 Mahle cylinder fresh off of production saw:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I missed the media type you used Sir. Very Nice after picture


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## Tzed250 (Mar 6, 2010)

wooddog said:


> I missed the media type you used Sir. Very Nice after picture



Glass bead.

Thanks


.


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## weimedog (Mar 6, 2010)

What will be of interest is a follow up and tear down of a couple of these saws to see how these combinations faired under real working conditions..

(I wish all the politcal crap could be stripped out of this thread and leave only the technical goodies)


----------

