# Hot CAT forestry mulcher!



## kkottemann (Jun 20, 2009)

I have a contract in Louisiana to do some mechanical fuel reduction for the state office of forestry. I settled on the CAT 299C compact loader outfited with the cat version of the FAE mulching head. All has been going well until the last few weeks. I cannot seem to get but one and a half hours of production without it overheating. cat checked it out, and all is well with the machiene. They suggested adding a vent on the rear door to allow more air to flow through the motor. Now it is really hot and dry and dust is a problem currently. Has anybody else encountered these issues with a similar piece of equipment and how did you rectify the problem? At 230 degrees i have to shut it down. It has been working between 210 and 216, after that she spikes up pretty quick and indicators light up which means it is time to stop. What about some additives to the coolant? Remember....its hot down here. no relief. 80 degrees at 6 am, thats as good as it gets.


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## bullbuck (Jun 20, 2009)

do you blow your air cleaner and radiator out with air every couple of days?i have to clean my dozers air cleaner daily in the summertime and it helps..how much smoke comes out the exhaust?do you think you could be running lean on fuel?


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## redprospector (Jun 20, 2009)

When it get's dusty, that's just the way it is. You have to shut it down and blow out the radiator & oil cooler when she starts getting hot. When it rains a little and it's not so dusty you can go 1/2 day or more before you have to blow it out.
When the oil cooler & radiator get full of crap it restricts the air flow. No air, no cooling.

Andy


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## bullbuck (Jun 20, 2009)

hey red,few years back our cat would overheat bad could not figure what was wrong?turned out they had the fuel pump turned way too high,it was great the thing would climb anything in second gear but halfway up you would have to neutral and cool for three 4 minutes,we are having the same problem right now with our newer cat right now firkin powerhouse it is but you gotta shut down for cooling,apparently there is a secondary thermostat on the base of the radiator got one coming in next week,hopefully that fixes it...


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## redprospector (Jun 20, 2009)

bullbuck said:


> hey red,few years back our cat would overheat bad could not figure what was wrong?turned out they had the fuel pump turned way too high,it was great the thing would climb anything in second gear but halfway up you would have to neutral and cool for three 4 minutes,we are having the same problem right now with our newer cat right now firkin powerhouse it is but you gotta shut down for cooling,apparently there is a secondary thermostat on the base of the radiator got one coming in next week,hopefully that fixes it...



Hahaha. You needed a pyrometer on that cat. When they mess around turning up the pump you've got to watch the exhaust gas temp more than the cooling temp. When I was trucking I saw more than one Cat, or Cummins burn a hole in the top of a piston. 
I guess the new equipment is nice, except when some engineer somewhere decides to put something (like that extra thermostat) somewhere, and forgets to tell you about it. All that computerized crap drives me nut's too. I am a firm believer that a computer belongs on a desk, not in a piece of equipment. We used to be the computer on a piece of equipment, but we've now been replaced.

Andy


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## bullbuck (Jun 20, 2009)

well this is a 77'model d6c if im not mistaken?no computers here just real steel,but yeah even george didnt know abot this thermostat?we have replaced the fan,radiator,upper thermostat,oil cooler,we are out of options i sure hope this is it..and yes i fully agree computers have no place on steel.


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## redprospector (Jun 20, 2009)

bullbuck said:


> well this is a 77'model d6c if im not mistaken?no computers here just real steel,but yeah even george didnt know abot this thermostat?we have replaced the fan,radiator,upper thermostat,oil cooler,we are out of options i sure hope this is it..and yes i fully agree computers have no place on steel.



Ok.:blush:
When you said "newer cat", I thought George must have won the lottery or something and gone big time on us.
I've messed with a few 6's, and never knew they had a second thermostat. I hope that fixes it for you guy's.

Andy


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## bullbuck (Jun 20, 2009)

ya i dunno either?i was not aware of it either but thats what he said friday?i guess i will find out next week...


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## kkottemann (Jun 21, 2009)

thanks for the replys fellas! I keep it real clean. I blow everything out every 2 hours or so. well right now I cannot get two hours of run time. so when I shut down I clean. my problem i believe is the dust/heat. I need to get more air moving through the motor. goanna get that screen put on the back door and hopefully that will help a bit. I got 5 hours of production today, from 6:30 to 11:30.

fill me in more on the problems with second thermostat.....i an not much of a mechanic. Also, the maual calls for 10W 30 oil....how about going to a 15W 40. what about some additives to the coolant? thanks again.


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## kkottemann (Jun 21, 2009)

Also, I have had it for 6 months now...so i am not a stranger to using it. I ran it all winter and spring with out this issue. got to be the damm heat! 103 by 10 am today in southwest louisiana!


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## bullbuck (Jun 21, 2009)

103 now thats damn hot!i think they make a coolant called engine ice,i have never tried it but it probably couldnt hurt you situation,also you might check the impellers in your water pump they can deteriorate over time and give you low coolant flow,or your radiator could be plugged from using non distilled water,are you the first owner?


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## bullbuck (Jun 21, 2009)

i think even a perfectly tuned machine will overheat when worked hard in those conditions,i dont know anything about your attatchment but i assume it is putting a constant load on your motor not giving it sufficient time to catch up on cooling,and also is your machine large enough to power this attatchment?


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## HorseShoeInFork (Jun 21, 2009)

redprospector said:


> When I was trucking I saw more than one Cat, or Cummins burn a hole in the top of a piston.


Lug a B5.9 Cummins up a hill long enough with a load on and this will happen, too. As to the original post, for what a 299 CAT cost, somebody better be able to tell me what's wrong with it.  Fool around long enough and it will look like this.......


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## bullbuck (Jun 21, 2009)

man that is firkin horrible...


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## redprospector (Jun 21, 2009)

HorseShoeInFork said:


> Lug a B5.9 Cummins up a hill long enough with a load on and this will happen, too. As to the original post, for what a 299 CAT cost, somebody better be able to tell me what's wrong with it. Fool around long enough and it will look like this.......



*OUTCH!!* 
There's been a few of them burn up like that no matter what brand the carrier is. Was that one your's?

Andy


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## kkottemann (Jun 21, 2009)

I bought it new in december. i have been to cat with it and it checks out just fine, just need more air through the engine....it makes sense. I have the cat 315 mulcher (FAE). It sure does put a strain on the motor though. I demo the gyro trac head last week and it blew mine out the water. much more efficient with a lot less strain on the motor.


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## redprospector (Jun 21, 2009)

I've got an old Gyro-trac head on an ASV. It's the old swing tooth design. I've heard that the new ones are really good.

Andy


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## kkottemann (Jun 21, 2009)

man it does not even compare! I took out 10 inch material and it did not even seem to strain. made one pass on brush and it was done! I am going to buy it, I would like to get rid of the FAE head first though. The gyro trac guy showed how to sharpen the blades and said you can get about 60 hours out of a set. Not too bad, i am sold...i just need my machine cool down.


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## ShoerFast (Jun 21, 2009)

Can you get more blade on the engine fan, and build a corrugated pre filter, something that will catch some dust?

I know that sounds to simple, but it starts out fine, you may have to stop every hour to blow it out when it get real hot in the dead of summer.


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## kkottemann (Jun 21, 2009)

thats a good idea! I will look into it. I pretty much do stop every hour or so...the problem is after 4 hours or so it heats up too fast after a break to have a productive day. I am going the get the screen put on the back door this weekend and we will see hot much that helps.


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## HorseShoeInFork (Jun 22, 2009)

Is there a reversing fan option for that 299? I run a Case 621D loader and it has one. Idle the engine down, press a switch and it reverses the hydro flow to the fan blade. Blows all the crap out and you go at it again.



> An optional reversible fan is available for purging dust and debris in adverse environments.



http://www.cleanfix.org/us_i_ein.html


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## spencerhenry (Jun 24, 2009)

my buddy runs a fecon on a cat skidsteer, has the same overheating problems. my theory is that it is not so much the load on the motor, but rather the heat being generated by the hydraulics. most machines have a oil cooler built in with the radiator, or a heat exhanger both or which put alot of heat into the water of the motor. my thought is to take the heat out of the hydraulic oil and the water temp will come down too.


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## kkottemann (Jun 24, 2009)

you are correct. the oil cooler and radiator are all in one. so heat is transfered which is part of the problem.. Hot dry weather, limited air in the motor and excessive workload for the hydrolics are all factors. I droped it off at the shop today for the screen in the back door, hopefully this will help with the air flow issue. Some rain would help with the dust and cool it off 10 degrees or so and finally a more efficient mulching head will all contribute to a better running machine. If not.....its gone!


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## redprospector (Jun 25, 2009)

Even having to stop and clean out the cooling system real frequently, I figure it's better than running around trying to be productive with a 12" chipper (like I used to). :bang:

Andy


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 25, 2009)

I fabricated custom cooling systems for five years. I've built lots of replacement stuff for all makes of HD equipment. Basically,. the stock cooling on most new stuff is just adequate. The problems you are having happen in lots of industries in lots of different equipment. 

couple suggestions

1) Recore the radiator with a core that cools better. Almost every factory rad can be rebuilt to cool much better. 

2) Have a custom fan installed. You can usually gain airflow with a better fan. Its alot harder to find a place that does custom fans but a new fan is way cheaper than a fabbed rad. Look up a company called Breeza and ask for Anthony. They engineer fans for military applications in the desert. 

3) Replace oil coolers with larger units, or add another cooler in series. Add or beef up electric fans on these coolers

4) Thsi on e is simple, but check the fan clutch. They can go bad and the fan will still spin but no tourque is makin it there. Do not try to stop the fan with a stick/your hand (I've seen it)


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## bullbuck (Jun 25, 2009)

excellent info zchop,i am going to look into breeza,i also wanted to ask if there is a rad.mod. shop that you know of in the lower 48?


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 25, 2009)

Breeza is in the US so that part is easy. 

As for a Rad shop in the US, sorry I don't know of any. But, I used to work here http://norwestcooling.com and they send full trailerloads of stuff to Montana fairly regularly. Call and ask for Al or Benny. They do CAD design so if they can get an engineering drawing from CAT they could Fab a rad and send it down on the trailer after which it could be shipped to you. Just keep in mind that a new rad or re-corred rad is the most expensive option. I'd do the new fan first, then add an extra oil cooler (check out Hayden HD coolers) plumbed in series with the factory cooler and/or add a hydraulic cooler. Every little thing you do to reduce the heat load adds up. Enough little improvements can make the difference you need.


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## bullbuck (Jun 25, 2009)

excellent,this information is likely to be gold for the boss man ,and i would sure like to pour the amount of fuel on this cat that it could easily handle,he has a few bucks and would really would like to see his 77'd6c run cooler,i shirt you not this cat is strong,strongest i have ever opped,but none of that matters if it heats on you...thanks a bunch!


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## QwikDraw (Jul 20, 2009)

I had a slight hydraulic oil leak in my ASV, it would coat the radiator with oil and the dust would stick to it...and over heat every two hours or less. I fixed the leak and power washed it real good...no more problems. I have only had a few days over 100 that I mowed in...I do remember overheating on those days too.


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## kkottemann (Jul 21, 2009)

Alright, an update to my issue. well i had the rear door cut out and put some screens to allow air flow....that definitly helped out. She still runs at 215 degrees, but unless it is super dusty that is about where it stays. today it was really dusty and i hit 221 once or twice. kept the filters and radiator clean and go the production i needed. a good rain would help, been really hot and dry here. Now I am in the process getting rid of the cat mulching head and going to a gyro trac or denis ciamf head. I really was impressed with the planer knives......cut like it was pissed at the brush, never stained the motor and easily took out 10 inch trees!


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## redprospector (Jul 22, 2009)

kkottemann said:


> Alright, an update to my issue. well i had the rear door cut out and put some screens to allow air flow....that definitly helped out. She still runs at 215 degrees, but unless it is super dusty that is about where it stays. today it was really dusty and i hit 221 once or twice. kept the filters and radiator clean and go the production i needed. a good rain would help, been really hot and dry here. Now I am in the process getting rid of the cat mulching head and going to a gyro trac or denis ciamf head. I really was impressed with the planer knives......cut like it was pissed at the brush, never stained the motor and easily took out 10 inch trees!



I've never heard of a denis ciamf head. Do they have a website?

Andy


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## kkottemann (Jul 22, 2009)

yeah...they have a website. From what i understand denis ciamf is the original designer of the gyro trac head. they have a few different models avaliable.


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## kkottemann (Aug 8, 2009)

Well...I bought the gyro trac 500 HF head yesterday!! I like it!


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## Curbside (Aug 8, 2009)

How much are those heads. I'm guessing around 33000 US.


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## kkottemann (Aug 17, 2009)

got a demo unit for just under 30k.


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## Curbside (Aug 17, 2009)

How is it holding up? I've been looking at getting one as well. I currently use Fecon heads with carbide tips. Overall quite happy with them but they take a long time in larger material and the chips are very stringy. I was thinking of using one gyro track head for knocking out the larger material and then using the fecon heads with carbide tips for the ground work. I've been told that the gyro track heads lose their edge quick when running in the dirt so that's why I was thinking a combination of the two might be the best alternative.


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## kkottemann (Aug 18, 2009)

there is no doubt that the knives get dull quick....however all you have to do is sharpen them and you are good to go. I would say every 10 to 15 hours...the dealer showed me how to shapen right on the machine. use a 7 inch grinder with a 40 grid flap disk and in 15 minutes they are like new. Other wise it holds up well, no vegetation has stopped it up, it devoures large material and takes out the small stuff in one pass...over all i say it is a vast improvement. I want a new carrier though...something with a closed loop system...looking at putting the head on a rayco 100....goanna try it out later this month.


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## mwarfel (Aug 24, 2009)

Curbside, if you already own a Fecon mulcher are you aware of the chipper tools that Fecon offers? The tools can be bolted directly into your Fecon. You could then switch back and forth between chipper tools and carbide tools in the same mulcher.


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## russelllmetcalf (Nov 5, 2009)

I have a Cat 287b skidsteer with a cat (fae) 312 mulching head. I have worked in al kinds of conditions and had problems with overheating when I first started using the mulcher. Cleaning the radiator/oil cooler with air (not water) is indeed a must! But, when I added an external hydraulic oil cooler on top of the cab and plumbed it in series before the existing radiator/oil cooler, that solved a lot of problems immediately. I still have to blow the radiator/oil cooler out in extremely hot dusty conditions about 3-4 times a day, but that did the trick for me. The external cooler cost me about 4200 dollars and I installed it myself. I used a Loftness oil cooler and had to order it through Bobcat in Houston, as they were the closest Loftness dealer. If you get the skid steer setup with a mulcher, that will fix you up. Hope that helps.


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