# Chipper Clutch Problems....



## Beast12

Well, it just seems to keep coming. 

We bought our Dynamic DC-50 chipper with the 89 HP Kubota engine about 2 and a half years ago. Nothing but problems (do a search on here). Our newest problem is with the clutch.

The first clutch lasted about a year. It was our fault. We weren't adjusting the clutch and it ended up getting glazed so it would slip. So, we ordered a new clutch kit (new pressure plate, pilot bearing, throwout bearing etc.)

We put that one in and it lasted another year. I was keeping it adjusted properly and everything. One day the machine was chipping fine and the next minute the machine was screaming but the drum wasn't turning.

So, we looked at it at the shop and found all the outside "teeth" on the clutch (that attach to the engine) had broken off. So, we called Dynamic and ordered a new clutch (JUST the disc...actually 3 of them).

I put it in and it lasted 3 weeks before all the teeth broke again. I put in a new clutch disc in again and on Friday the same thing happened. :bang: 

So, does anyone know what is doing this? I am adjusting the clutch properly (with a torque wrench to spec). I am thinking POSSIBLY a pressure plate problem or maybe the teeth part on the engine is worn just a spec too much? 

I am not sure. Everyone is engaging the clutch properly (only 3 of us do it).

Any ideas? Oh and I am watching how big of stuff the guys are putting in the machine...it's not even close to what the machine is rated for. 

-Matt

P.S. I am SOOOOO glad we kept our old chuck and duck as a backup.


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## Sbusta

I don't believe you can blame dynamic for the clutch issue. I would assume this would have been matched buy the engine manufacture / supplier.

When we bought our DC55 the Caterpillar agent adjusted the clutch so it just slipped in & out which is not what the book said. They said they had many problems over the years until they started doing this with the twin disc clutches.


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## Thor's Hammer

The clutches fitted by Dynamic are identical to those used by every other chipper manufacturer. 
Dave K has that identical engine on his new 8018 carlton, and its a common industrial fitment.
If your ring gear teeth are worn though, that will cause premature failure of future disks.


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## Beast12

Well, I am not really blaming Dynamic for this problem. I DO blame them for a lot of the other problems we have had (and probably will have in the future). 

I am trying to figure out why this is happening. The teeth on the gear seem to be worn a little bit. But, I don't think it is enough to do what it is doing to the machine. Also, if they are worn enough to do anything would you not think 2 and a half years is way premature for it to wear?

I (as well as my Dad) am just frustrated from this machine. We thought we would buy a new machine so that we wouldn't have these problems. Pretty sad when the 30-40 year old chuck and duck is wayyyyy more reliable. :bang: 

Worst part about this whole thing is that we still have payments for 1 and a half years. 

-Matt


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## transporter

does the output shaft from the clutch have a support bearing or is it straight to the pulley for the belts? i had a clutch that caused me some trouble as you describe and it turned out to be the bearing in the bell housing allowing to much side load to the shaft when the belts were tightened, this was causing premature failure of the clutch discs


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## Beast12

Yes, there is a bearing in the clutch housing. There is also the pilot bearing in the engine. There is no side to side movement. I also didn't put the belts too tight just in case.

I am baffled. 

-Matt


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## Thor's Hammer

Given the bad press this is getting, If I was the folks at dynamic, I'd sort it out - or at least put some pressure on the clutch company. What have they said so far?


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## Beast12

We are pretty much done with Dynamic. We had a problem about 6 weeks ago with the bearing for the drum. The machine had just over 1000 hours on it and the drum bearing was shot. We ended up having to get a new bearing to the cost of $700. We called Dynamic and they basically said we are out of warranty so we are screwed.

2 and a half years on a drum bearing?!?! Everything just keeps piling up. VERY FRUSTRATING. 

-Matt


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## Sbusta

Ive not run large chippers for long but 1000 hour's on a bearing doesn't sound bad to me what are other machines getting?


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## neighborstree

i dont understand why people just dont stick with name brand stuff, 

bandit
morbark 

it only makes sense to me, personally i would never go out and buy a chain saw from walmart

i would never buy a chipper made by a company that has not even built up a reputation with smaller equipment and built there way up., they jumped rite into chippers and large equipment, and from the reviews i hear, there all junk. and the company does not back up any warrentee 

thats just my 2 sence , sorry if you dont like it


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## Thor's Hammer

Your 2 cents is worthless.
I have lots of very happy dynamic customers. And they have been great with me for warrenty stuff. I've seen bearings on bandits go after 200 hours - seen them last 5000 hours too.
Earl Smith, the owner of Dynamic, spent 27 years designing and building chippers for Morbark. I'm not defending the product, nor the way that matt feels he has been treated. I just Know that the Dynamic Machines are very heavy duty, and a LOT of experience went into building them.
Your kind of atitude sucks - 'dont buy it, we've not seen it before!'
If it was up to you, people would still be using axes - and stone ones at that.
I


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## a_lopa

Got to be careful buying new equipment thats not genuinely feild tested or start up companys that are here today gone tommorow,i think as thor has said dynamic know there stuff im suprised this has happened.Can you not call there head office?


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## neighborstree

Thor's Hammer said:


> Your 2 cents is worthless.
> I have lots of very happy dynamic customers. And they have been great with me for warrenty stuff. I've seen bearings on bandits go after 200 hours - seen them last 5000 hours too.
> Earl Smith, the owner of Dynamic, spent 27 years designing and building chippers for Morbark. I'm not defending the product, nor the way that matt feels he has been treated. I just Know that the Dynamic Machines are very heavy duty, and a LOT of experience went into building them.
> Your kind of atitude sucks - 'dont buy it, we've not seen it before!'
> If it was up to you, people would still be using axes - and stone ones at that.
> I



are you a moron, i never stated i wanted buinesses to be run with axes and stones u idiot., i said buy name brand equipment, companies that have been feild tested. companies that have proven themselfs..
i also stated i would never buy a chainsaw from walmart. or what ever cheap store you have in wales. we all buy expensive name brand saws.. so why go buy a no name chipper. with a kubota engine, lololol. sorry. kubota engines are for tractors. real engins are made by cat. or jd


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## Thor's Hammer

Well, the Dynamics I've sold have had CAT's and Cummins. But if you know your engines, you cant knock the kubota - excellent engines.
And again moron - the guys building the Dynamics designed and built most of Morbarks range. Hell, even Bandits owners used to work for morbark, as did the Owner of Woodsman.
And how you can compare a Dynamic (or woodsman?) chipper to a walmart chainsaw?
Both brands have bigger and stronger drums, chassis, and plating than the 'name brands' you mention. after that, the rest of the components are identical to every other chipper manufacturer. and the cost difference is minimal.
so tell me - how exactly does a brand become field tested? or did morbark and bandit have no begining?


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## neighborstree

i said earlier that most companies start small. building small equipment and going to bigger equipment. unlike dynamic. they jumped right into giant chippers .
kubota engines are great engines, but there not known for anything over 100hp. 

im comparing mercedes benz to kia here

dynamic did not start small. to work out there kinks. they jumped into making chippers with a single disc clutch, anyone who runs chippers knows how hard they work. the twin disc is a must. but as u say thor from wales. u sell dynamic, so your standing by your product good luck with that. once they burn there bridges with half the tree industry they
ll be out of buiesness all togather


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## neighborstree

i said earlier that most companies start small. building small equipment and going to bigger equipment. unlike dynamic. they jumped right into giant chippers .
kubota engines are great engines, but there not known for anything over 100hp. 

im comparing mercedes benz to kia here

dynamic did not start small. to work out there kinks. they jumped into making chippers with a single disc clutch, anyone who runs chippers knows how hard they work. the twin disc is a must. but as u say thor from wales. u sell dynamic, so your standing by your product good luck with that. once they burn there bridges with half the tree industry they
ll be out of buiesness all togather


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## Thor's Hammer

To be truthfull, I dont sell dynamic any more. I now manufacture my own chippers and work with a Woodsman / Precision Husky dealer.

This is down to the very different requirements of the european market, more than a complaint about the chippers Dynimic build.

For the record, all the machines I sold had heavy duty Twin disc clutches.

You dont seem to be getting my point though. the engineers who built the conehead chippers, had a lifetimes experience of building huge chippers - and a great deal of testing went into their designs.

And if your comparing any US built chipper with mercedes benz, your sadly deluded.
any Bandit or morbark would be a Kia if compared to Euro built Jenz, Rudnick-Enners, Bruks-Klockner or Erjo.


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## Beast12

Sbusta said:


> Ive not run large chippers for long but 1000 hour's on a bearing doesn't sound bad to me what are other machines getting?



We have a couple chuck and duck chippers (only one is being used now) that have NEVER had the bearings replaced. Just over 2 years doesn't seem right to me.



neighborstree said:


> i dont understand why people just dont stick with name brand stuff,
> 
> bandit
> morbark



Well, the situation is this: We had been using chuck and duck chippers for years. We looked into a Vermeer 1400. It was going to cost us over $50K. A month or so later a Dynamic dealer about 2 hours away came down and was showing the local companies the DC-50. It was around $34K. So, we crunched some numbers and decided to take it. ANYTHING had to be better than a chuck and duck. 

We had it for a bit and then that is when the problems started.

Here is another post I made about it:



Beast12 said:


> Well, let me see
> 
> 1) Hydraulic motor for the feedwheel was leaking hydraulic oil - fixed under warranty
> 2) One of the hydraulic lifts for the feedwheel was leaking hydraulic oil - fixed under warranty
> 3) BOTH fenders cracking really bad - new ones given to us under warranty but not installed yet
> 4) 3 broken feedwheel springs - 2 replaced under warranty
> 5) NUMEROUS problems with the wiring coming apart - I took every connection apart and soldered and shrinkwrapped them (they were just crimped on)
> 6) Diesel tank rubbing against frame ended up getting a crack in it and leaking - fixed by us out of warranty but Dynamic said they would pay
> 7) Voltmeter has not consistenly worked for over a year - didn't fix because there is one on the Tachometer
> 8) Small diesel fuel line got a crack in it and spewed diesel fuel all over the road - this just happened a couple weeks ago and we just fixed it ourselves
> 
> That's what I can think of off the top of my head. I think that is all of it though. Like I said earlier it is a great running machine...when it is running.
> 
> -Matt



Add to that the clutch, the drum bearing and some other things that weren't on there. It is just frustrating because we bought this NEW machine so we wouldn't have a lot of down time.

Also, there have been MANY improvements to this machine around the time we got ours. Ours only has two blades on it. And half the width of the drum on opposite sides. Also, I KNOW they made a mistake when building the machine and that is why we had the problem with the fuel tank listed above.

We have called Dynamic and they said we are basically screwed so no luck there. I KNOW I will NEVER buy a machine from them. And EVERYONE I talk to has been getting an earful about how much this machine sucks.
Definetly not a professional grade machine. And it is FOR SURE not a 12" capacity machine as their website suggests: http://dynamicmfgcorp.com/coneheadDC50.htm

-Matt


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## Beast12

Here are some images or the teeth on that gear on the engine. Also some pictures of the clutch I took out with the teeth all broken off. Click the pictures for bigger images.





























-Matt


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## juststumps

Thor's Hammer said:


> The clutches fitted by Dynamic are identical to those used by every other chipper manufacturer.
> Dave K has that identical engine on his new 8018 carlton, and its a common industrial fitment.
> If your ring gear teeth are worn though, that will cause premature failure of future disks.




ring gear teeth are on the flywheel,,, thats where the starter engages to spin the engine.....really shouldn't have any effect on clutch proformance......


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## Thor's Hammer

There is an inverted ring gear set that holds the clutch plates.


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## transporter

was the clutch ring gear worn like that when you replaced the clutch last time? you may find the teeth are hanging up on the worn part when engaging cuasing them stress and then to fail and also when the machine idles without the clutch engaged they will rattle about more which may be damaging them?


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## Beast12

Does anyone else agree with this? They have looked like that for a while. I don't really think it is a lot of wear but maybe I am wrong? If I am wrong I think it should last A LOT longer than 2.5 years!

-Matt


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## neighborstree

i agree that older chippers last alot longer. 

you should get atleast 3000 hours out of a clutch, with proper adjustment


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## juststumps

Thor's Hammer said:


> There is an inverted ring gear set that holds the clutch plates.



did not know that,,, never saw a rockford clutch apart.... learn something every day...


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## transporter

if you have tried everything else i would replace that ring gear and the clutch, do you leave the chipper idling with the clutch disengaged alot? I was advised by a twin disc dealer that this was not doing the clutch plates any favours and it was far better to leave it engaged all the time at idle


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## Bigstumps

Call these people and speak with them

http://www.naclutch.com/

In a past life I dealt with them - alot. To clarify a point made earlier - Twin Disc clutches are not all 2 disc plate clutches - you must get to the SP211 series before it is a 2 plate - most on 125HP on down are SP111 which is a single plate clutch. Twin Disc is just their name

The pilot and tailshaft bearings were a good place to look, but if what you say is true you have another problem. What about shock/impact loading?? What are the knives like?? I imagine a lot of dead hard wood could shorten clutch life.

What is the clutch model number??? Should be on the cover plate??

You really can't blame the machine mfg unless the clutch is undersized for the horsepower/application.

Let us know what the guys at NACD tell you.

PS - I love my Kubota and it is not on a tractor!!


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## DWittenbreder

*clutch problem*

First I would put a new ring gear w/ the new clutch. Second check to make sure the bearings are o.k. in the clutch housing. The freeplay must be set w/
a dial indicator to insure proper preload. also use a high quality grease and grease those bearings daily. Hope this helps.


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## 2dogs

Beast I feel your pain. We bought a factory refurbished 200+ from Brush Bandit a year ago and have had some problems with it including having to replace the old clutch with a new NACD. In addition we needed a new anvil, starter, alternator (due to a bad connection that finally broke), hyd bypass valve, and had to cut a bent flap out of the discharge chute. Oh and the chipper body cracked near the feed rollers. The engine, disc, frame, have all been fine. We also had a folding infeed chute kit added to replace the fixed chute.

I know that the money spent is only a part of the picture. The real issues are down time and the fact that you need to rely on your equipment. Yes everthing needs maintenance and anything can beak but you need to have basic reliabilty from new equipment. I'll remember the name Dynamic if someone asks about new chippers. For us Brush Bandit is the way to go because we have a good dealer, Cal Line Equip, an hour away who has provided good service and a loaner machine when ours has gone down.

Good luck my friend. I have been where you are.


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## CalTreeEquip

*too much-too big- too fast*

Time for me to weigh in. All the problems you have described could be the result of the chipper being fed too much, too big, to fast. No chipper holds up to constant abuse and if this is your first big machine then maybe you didn't realize that just because it can take 15" wood doesn't mean you should feed it that all the time. I have seen perfectly good chippers trashed within 500 hours because of being feed too much big wood too fast. This will throw the drum or disc out of balance, stress the bearing and the clutch.
The cracked fenders are a symptom of an out of balance drum. And I know that Dynamic knows that a balanced drum is key to a smooth running, long lasting machine. That is why they focus a lot of attention on balancing and strengthening that drum. It is the week link in the Vermeer's and Morbarks and they know that.
The Cone-Head is renowned for being a very smooth and strong machine and I have heard nothing but good things about them. The only bad comments have been that they are to big and heavy compared to their capacity.
My advice is to replace the clutch and ring gear and then slow you feed rate down, especially when your chipping big wood.

And on the insults, come-on guys lets show a little more respect for each other.

And, no I don't sell Cone-Heads.


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## Beast12

transporter said:


> if you have tried everything else i would replace that ring gear and the clutch, do you leave the chipper idling with the clutch disengaged alot? I was advised by a twin disc dealer that this was not doing the clutch plates any favours and it was far better to leave it engaged all the time at idle



We don't leave it idling out of gear a lot. It has been the same since we bought the machine new. Usually just to warm it up a few minutes and also to let it cool down (the turbo) before shutting off.



DWittenbreder said:


> First I would put a new ring gear w/ the new clutch. Second check to make sure the bearings are o.k. in the clutch housing. The freeplay must be set w/
> a dial indicator to insure proper preload. also use a high quality grease and grease those bearings daily. Hope this helps.



What bearings are you talking about? The whole machine is greased twice during the week. I figure we are putting an average of 8-10 hours on it a week.



CalTreeEquip said:


> Time for me to weigh in. All the problems you have described could be the result of the chipper being fed too much, too big, to fast. No chipper holds up to constant abuse and if this is your first big machine then maybe you didn't realize that just because it can take 15" wood doesn't mean you should feed it that all the time. I have seen perfectly good chippers trashed within 500 hours because of being feed too much big wood too fast. This will throw the drum or disc out of balance, stress the bearing and the clutch.
> The cracked fenders are a symptom of an out of balance drum. And I know that Dynamic knows that a balanced drum is key to a smooth running, long lasting machine. That is why they focus a lot of attention on balancing and strengthening that drum. It is the week link in the Vermeer's and Morbarks and they know that.
> The Cone-Head is renowned for being a very smooth and strong machine and I have heard nothing but good things about them. The only bad comments have been that they are to big and heavy compared to their capacity.
> My advice is to replace the clutch and ring gear and then slow you feed rate down, especially when your chipping big wood.
> 
> And on the insults, come-on guys lets show a little more respect for each other.
> 
> And, no I don't sell Cone-Heads.



Well, there is only ONE speed for the feedwheel on this machine. There is no way to slow it down unless we manually do it with the handle for the feedwheel. There is no knob or anything that allows us to do it.

This machine is not as you say "being fed too much, too big, to fast" in any way at all. I have early on learned that this is NOT a 12" capacity machine like Dynamic "claims". It very rarely sees anything bigger than 8" unless it is a softwood (and even then not usually). We are in firewood sales so we cut a lot of wood up for that.

We are a family owned and operated business so our equipment is taken care of VERY WELL. We tend to keep our equipment until it is basically junk.

The fenders on the machine cracked VERY early on (within 6 months?) The machine does vibrate but it does not seem that the drum is out of balance.

Also, it is a DISCONE chipper, not a Conehead. 

I wish we would have waited for the Rayco 16.5 machine we demoed the other day.

-Matt 

P.S. The newest clutch has been in for 3 weeks. Seems to be fine...for now. Not really engaging like it used to but still OK. ??????


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## Thor's Hammer

Matt, is your machine a full cut or half cut drum? This half cut machine has no problem eating big timber, this was a pile of fresh oak
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...l=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


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## Beast12

It's the same as the chipper in that video. I have put big wood like that in before but not much any more. If I do, I stand right at the handle for the feedwheel and put it so the handle is between neutral and forward. That will slow the feedwheel down enough to not stall the machine out.

-Matt


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## Thor's Hammer

If you notice in that Video, Earl smith (CEO Dynamic) overides the autofeed with the control bar for the big pieces. 
To have an adjustable infeed takes 2 hydraulic T pieces, 1 needle valve and a 12" length of hose. _real_ easy to do.


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## Beast12

Ya, I have been thinking about doing it. If we are feeding some bigger stuff I will change the autofeed settings so that the feedwheel will stop when the engine RPMs get to 2650. It seems to help a bit. If you feed too much then the chips look like crap. And we sell them so we can't have that. 

-Matt


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## Beast12

Can anyone guess what I have to do AGAIN this week?

Maybe time to replace that ring gear?

:censored: 

-Matt


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## CalTreeEquip

*ring gear*

Ya replace that ring gear.
All gear teeth need to be well matted to each other otherwise you get undo stress. I'm thinking that has been the problem all along.
I see a lot of used chippers, and it is not unusual to see a fairly new machine with low hours that has had a new clutch or bearings.
1000 hours is getting up there and you can expect to start replacing a few key components. I see engines fail with fewer hours. 
The old chuck-n-ducks are much more reliable and really do last forever.
Keep yours, your going to need it.


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## Bowtech

neighborstree said:


> i dont understand why people just dont stick with name brand stuff,
> 
> bandit
> morbark
> 
> it only makes sense to me, personally i would never go out and buy a chain saw from walmart
> 
> i would never buy a chipper made by a company that has not even built up a reputation with smaller equipment and built there way up., they jumped rite into chippers and large equipment, and from the reviews i hear, there all junk. and the company does not back up any warrentee
> 
> thats just my 2 sence , sorry if you dont like it


We have a bandit 19xpc that is only 1.5 years old and already going on it’s third clutch. So I highly doubt it’s just the brand that’s having an issue. I’m believing it’s the clutch manufacturers making junk parts


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## Eq Broker

_I might be able to help. I really need to know the name brand of the clutch. We're seeing many issues with NACD clutches. Does the pilot bearing mount into the flywheel or a pilot bearing carrier? Either way, it could be bad as well.

I train people to bump the clutch handle in and out. You want to make sure there's no wood blocking the drum from turning. I bump the clutch handle in and I watch the drum shaft to make sure it's turning. If it's turning, I bump the handle in and out until the drum catches up to the RPM of the chipper engine. Once it catches up, I then engage the handle and idle all the way up.

If this is a NACD clutch, you have to torque the clutch weekly on the end of the engagement handle and set it to the foot lbs. on the inspection plate. I recommend this practice for all chippers that have a NACD clutch. We're doing 5-7 NACD clutch replacements per month.

Hope this helps!

Dave
Global Equipment Exporters
770-420-6400_


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