# West Coast Fallers Pay



## Shod

I've been cutting Timber for 28 years now. I've been in Alaska, California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Arizona. I've cut for almost all the Heli-Logging companies around Montana, Idaho, Oregon, yada, yada, yada and Yarders up and down the West Coast.

I wanted to share an observation I've recently made about a new area into which I've moved in northern Oregon on the coast. I'd also like to share an observations I've made around 17 years ago when working for a heli outfit close to Tillamook, Oregon. I'll start with the Tillamook experience.

Needless to say me and the Misses landed in Tillamook in September of 97. When we got to the job the Mill fella met us on the landing to go over specs. One point of interest was when the Mill fella requested that we please do not divolge to any of the local cutters how much we were making as there were local cutters on a job right next to us. At that time I remember the Elite cutter group that I tended to associate with had made a pact that we would not work for any less than $400 a day employee and the fact is that's what we got. It was a mentality of....this is dangerous and I'm worth my pay........Something many oldtimers used to proudly carry!

I was offered a full time job from the locals. I asked the pay and was replyed $150 a day. As you can imagine I damned need threw up! After all I had started my cutting career in Montana in 87 and by 1990 the pay was already at $225 a day.

You can imagine my surprise to discover that the proud tradition of the West Coast Cutter in Northern Oregon had no pride at all and the pride of those men showed in how much they thought they were worth. It was a slap in the face and a discrace to the heritage of the proud oldtimers whom emulated Moral fiber and true grit! It actually made me proud to be a Montana cutter at the time because at least Montana Men!!!!! Demanded a cutters wage!

Well for many years I steered clear of the Oregon Coast and often times the Washington Coast as it appeared to me that the degraded mentality had also swept over into Washington.

Well....recently I've found myself having moved to the northern Oregon coast to be closer to family, buy property, and settle into one place to live. I've made my retirement so at this point Money really isn't an issue. I would however like to point out an issue I've discovered soon once again inspecting the Proud Tradition of the Oregon West Coast Cutter.

Apon arriving I made a good many phone calls as I love my life as a cutter and I am truely proud to be a part of the heritage.

It was both sad and sickening for me to learn that many Oregon West Coast Cutters still considers a man to be worth less than a Montana cutter of little skill was worth more than 20 years ago.

My question is.....Really? Is this seriously what you believe you are worth? The Oregon West Coast Cutter......where men of high skill carry chainsaws with long bars falling big timber with 4 fourties.

Montana, where men pack small saws cutting lodgepole that are 60 ft tall.

Which Man would you rather be? If it is true that the defining mark of a real Man is whether they stand or squat to piss.

I'd rather pack a little chainsaw and cut lodgepole.


Shod


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## chucker

working in minnesota as an experienced timber faller for more than 35 years i wood !! knot!! sell my experience to anyone for the price of a cheap bottle of wine!!!!!!! cutting hardwood for lumber or veneer i am proudly working my profession at $40.00 per hour with a 9 hour work day. i pay for all my own expences and insurence's that i need to do the thing i love to do as work and provide for my family!


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## slowp

You know, I find your post insulting. You shouldn't use women and our plumbing for insults. In fact, in my eyes it makes you less of a "man". Are you real? Or just another "manly" troll?


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## Shod

slowp said:


> You know, I find your post insulting. You shouldn't use women and our plumbing for insults. In fact, in my eyes it makes you less of a "man". Are you real? Or just another "manly" troll?


The analogy is not meant to be insulting.....it was intended to get hard working men to stand taller and they should. The West Coast Timber Fallers are among the very best in the world. There pay and pride should reflect that!

Whether you know it or not it is the puzzy hurt attitude of squat to piss folks like yourself that require to be paid less. In the last 100 years there is not a single oldtimer or old growth cutter that has displayed such an attitude. This is a thread about Fallers and Men and puzzy hurts and squat to piss folks need not apply.


Shod


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## Shod

chucker said:


> working in minnesota as an experienced timber faller for more than 35 years i wood !! knot!! sell my experience to anyone for the price of a cheap bottle of wine!!!!!!! cutting hardwood for lumber or veneer i am proudly working my profession at $40.00 per hour with a 9 hour work day. i pay for all my own expences and insurence's that i need to do the thing i love to do as work and provide for my family!


Chucker, its good to see folks like yourself that are demanding a wage. The West Coast Oregon Cutter makes about $140 a day less than you do. 

Shod


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## Gologit

Shod said:


> The analogy is not meant to be insulting.....it was intended to get hard working men to stand taller and they should. The West Coast Timber Fallers are among the very best in the world. There pay and pride should reflect that!
> 
> Whether you know it or not it is the puzzy hurt attitude of squat to piss folks like yourself that require to be paid less. In the last 100 years there is not a single oldtimer or old growth cutter that has displayed such an attitude. This is a thread about Fallers and Men and puzzy hurts and squat to piss folks need not apply.
> 
> 
> Shod



Well, this is going to be damned interesting.

Shod, do you run your mouth to the local Oregon cutters like you do on here? I know a few guys up there that make their living in the woods. They seem to have done just fine money-wise.
You're probably just blowing off steam but if you said to those guy's faces what you've said on here they'd probably just laugh at you. Then they'd hit you. And then they'd laugh at you some more.


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## 1270d

Seems like if you are head and shoulders better than the other fallers around scale pay would be the way to go?


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## Shod

Gologit said:


> Well, this is going to be damned interesting.
> 
> Shod, do you run your mouth to the local Oregon cutters like you do on here? I know a few guys up there that make their living in the woods. They seem to have done just fine money-wise.
> You're probably just blowing off steam but if you said to those guy's faces what you've said on here they'd probably just laugh at you. Then they'd hit you. And then they'd laugh at you some more.


Gologit, The fellas that you are describing are generally the type of fellas that like me quite a bit and even participate in these type of conversations with me. I've made some really good friends with some Cutters here in Oregon. 

Perhaps I should clarify a little more clearly. There are Men here in Oregon that do get paid a lot more than some and those Men are my friends. I both admire and respect them. Birds of the same feather flock together. 

The fella you are describing that would sock me in the nose is not the scared, squat to piss, low paid timber cutter that I am describing. There are more of them at present here on the Oregon Coast then there are of us. It doesn't make them bad fellas, it makes them fellas who need some guidance and to remember who they really are.

Shod


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## chucker

it was once said "your only worth as much as the next man in line waiting to take your job" which at the moment there are more men then job's looking for whiner's! men/women do what they need to do to provide for their families no matter what the pay scale may be or not...... some luck out where other's may not have a choice, shod!


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## Shod

1270d said:


> Seems like if you are head and shoulders better than the other fallers around scale pay would be the way to go?


There are an aweful lot of exceptional cutters around here who get paid a lot less than they should be getting. I agree that every cutter is not worth exactly the same. However, every Oregon Coastal Cutter should be worth much more than any Montana Cutter. It far more dangerous and the experience required dwarfs what it takes to be a Montana cutter. Montana cutters have come here for many years and have been sent home because they were not experienced enough to make it. So......they would just waltz on back to Montana, wait for spring breakup to pass after about a month. Then go back to work with all that inexperience making $75 more a day than the Oregon Coast Faller.

Shod


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## Shod

chucker said:


> it was once said "your only worth as much as the next man in line waiting to take your job" which at the moment there are more men then job's looking for whiner's! men/women do what they need to do to provide for their families no matter what the pay scale may be or not...... some luck out where other's may not have a choice, shod!


Chucker, I'm working here in Oregon presently making more than most these fellas. Its not because I'm better! Many of these fellas are among the best fallers in the world. The reason I make what I make is because there are no cutters left to be had here on the coast. The old fellers are mostly gone now and no new cutters have been broken in. With logging picking up and the skill required to be a west coast cutter there is not a quick fix for the extremely high demand these fellas are in. We are in a name your price market here right now and will be for quite a few years to come. I named my price and I'm getting it. Other fellas are still nameing 30 year ago prices.

It makes no difference to me because I know I'll get my price for years to come.

In fact if any of these fellas want to come work for me there welcome. The only stipulation I have is they have to except a minimum of $500 a day for six hours or they can't work for me. And if I ever hear of them working for someone for less, they'll never work for me again. At that price I intend to employ somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 cutters.

Shod


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## chucker

ok? so your a faller with experience? as well as a faller you are intending to become an outlet for workers seeking high pay employment with little to no experience! benefits being a short work day with a better than average pay to reel in the new comers to further the fallers chance to compete for job's & wage's? is this correct? just trying to get the whole scope of the situation!


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## 1270d

How much wood is a guy expected to put down for that wage on a given day? I have never worked for a day wage, or paid a day wage, so really have no experience there. All of my personal experience has been by the hour or piece work. I confess, 90+ dollars an hour seems too good to be true.


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## 1270d

Better watch it or you're going to have a ready to learn/work michiganer knocking on your door for a job. I would be interested in working more than 6 hours a day though.


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## Gologit

Shod said:


> It makes no difference to me because I know I'll get my price for years to come.
> 
> In fact if any of these fellas want to come work for me there welcome. The only stipulation I have is they have to except a minimum of $500 a day for six hours or they can't work for me. And if I ever hear of them working for someone for less, they'll never work for me again. At that price I intend to employ somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 cutters.
> 
> Shod



You're looking for fallers? I know a couple of guys, experienced in yarder and helicopter falling, who are looking for work. They're good fallers. If you want I'll call them and have them get in touch with you. They've both worked for me in the past and if I had any work I'd hire them again.

Are you the contractor or the bullbuck? What's the name of your outfit? That $500 a day...would they be running their own numbers out of that? Any good lodging close by or would they need to bring their trailers?

How soon do you need them?


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## Gologit

1270d said:


> I would be interested in working more than 6 hours a day though.




Hey now, don't spoil an old tradition. Besides, after six or six and a half hours...going balls to the wall... on yarder or helicopter ground you might be ready to call it a day.


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## northmanlogging

Huh, a guy might start to think that he could quit his day job and wander out to the sticks and make 3 times the money...

But then, I got guys calling me looking for work.


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## Shod

chucker said:


> ok? so your a faller with experience? as well as a faller you are intending to become an outlet for workers seeking high pay employment with little to no experience! benefits being a short work day with a better than average pay to reel in the new comers to further the fallers chance to compete for job's & wage's? is this correct? just trying to get the whole scope of the situation!


Chucker, on the West Coast a 6 hour day is the norm and has been for more than 30 years. I will only be hiring experienced coastal cutters. Yes I'm experienced. 28 years. There won't be any competing for a wage because there are no cutters left. 

There won't be any newcomers either because you can't just hire anyone to cut tall coastal timber. If you could I wouldn't have a job because the Mexicans would be cutting it all. The Mexicans has been tried and it was a complete flop. It required too much experience and this type of timber falling is a culture of experience that has been handed down for more than 100 years.


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## 1270d

Gologit said:


> Hey now, don't spoil an old tradition. Besides, after six or six and a half hours...going balls to the wall... on yarder or helicopter ground you might be ready to call it a day.




Pretty sure it would be a lot less than that when I wanted to curl up and take a nap. Its been some years now since Ive sawed full time. Then it was 8-10 hours. Always takes a couple months to harden up to sawing shape.


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## slowp

We can pee standing up with practice. Is that all you have to do to make $500 a day??? It comes in pastel colors too. 
http://www.go-girl.com/
I have worked with Montana fallers. They didn't seem any different from the local cutters. Just a little bit in awe when they got to cut out some nice, tall Doug-fir for a landing. They were quite humble, and not fixated on peeing. I taught them how to mark timber. They were quick to learn and I don't think they changed the way they peed on the days they marked timber.


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## chucker

1270d said:


> Pretty sure it would be a lot less than that when I wanted to curl up and take a nap. Its been some years now since Ive sawed full time. Then it was 8-10 hours. Always takes a couple months to harden up to sawing shape.


lol !! man did you say a mouth full, and that is if your not an old fat man still trying to do it like his minds still thunkin he,s 30!! hey???? lol 9 hours a day since sept. last and still find my azz draggin like a wet cost timber feller.....


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## Shod

1270d said:


> How much wood is a guy expected to put down for that wage on a given day? I have never worked for a day wage, or paid a day wage, so really have no experience there. All of my personal experience has been by the hour or piece work. I confess, 90+ dollars an hour seems too good to be true.


Many places in California are paying $100 an hour now. Some here in Oregon are at $90 already. The $500 for 6 hours are not going to be extremely common so yes I'd say a cutter who wants to work here will want to be reasonably productive. 

Experienced old timers are welcome and don't worry because we'll make especially sure you fellas are taken well care of. You men have paid your dues. Any man who disagrees with that statement need not apply here. 

Anyone who is interested and experienced especially if you are from the Coastal area Can PM me and I'll contact you via a phone call.

The most qualified should expect work first and there will be work in a few months.


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## chucker

!! ?? sounds like the makin's of yet another "REALLLLYYYY BIG SHOEW" !! who's your guest tonight ed?


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## Shod

slowp said:


> We can pee standing up with practice. Is that all you have to do to make $500 a day??? It comes in pastel colors too.
> http://www.go-girl.com/
> I have worked with Montana fallers. They didn't seem any different from the local cutters. Just a little bit in awe when they got to cut out some nice, tall Doug-fir for a landing. They were quite humble, and not fixated on peeing. I taught them how to mark timber. They were quick to learn and I don't think they changed the way they peed on the days they marked timber.


Slowp, many of you do pee standing up. There are quite a few who don't. The ones who don't are getting paid around $200 a day just to drop a hint.

What an insult to the Coastal Cutting Profession. I intend to work on changing that problem. These fellas are being taking advantage of. No cutter should be forced to piss squating. 

Shod


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## slowp

Shod, are you familiar with the Slopping Back Cut? I'd say that might be worth an extree $50 an hour, at least!


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## northmanlogging

awright damnit I'm in where ya cutting and who you cutting for?

I'm fat but don't let that fool ya.

I'm gimpy but it only slows me down in the morning.

I'm not sending no personal message, you can send me one, but don't count on me sending you anything, until I hear who, what, where and when.

Ya got until tommorrow to reply otherwise hope you piss in yer own boots.


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## Gologit

Shod said:


> Many places in California are paying $100 an hour now.



I don't know of anybody around here that pays fallers by the hour. LOL...name three in California who are paying 100 an hour. Hell, just name one that pays that much. If a guy was busheling in big timber on good ground he might make that much but it wouldn't be steady , it wouldn't be every day, and it's probably so far back from the road that they have to camp all week. That's all normal but for 100 bucks an hour a guy might be tempted.

Now, before I call my guys and get their hopes up, tell me about this 500 dollar job you're offering. Answer the same questions I asked in my other post. The name of your company? Are you signing the checks or are you the bullbuck? Will they be running their own numbers? Size of the timber? Will they need to bring trailers? Yarder? Helicopter? If it's helicopter are they gonna fly the fallers in and out? Camp out or drive every day?

I've logged in California most of my life. Who did you work for down here? I might know them. Where did you work? Coast, Sierras?

A quick reply from you would be welcome. Otherwise some of us are gonna start to think that maybe, just maybe, you're talking through your hat.


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## Shod

slowp said:


> Shod, are you familiar with the Slopping Back Cut? I'd say that might be worth an extree $50 an hour, at least!


Don't ya have to be a C rated faller for that one. Lol


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## slowp

Skeans cuts in the Astoria area.


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## Shod

Gologit said:


> I don't know of anybody around here that pays fallers by the hour. LOL...name three in California who are paying 100 an hour. Hell, just name one that pays that much. If a guy was busheling in big timber on good ground he might make that much but it wouldn't be steady , it wouldn't be every day, and it's probably so far back from the road that they have to camp all week. That's all normal but for 100 bucks an hour a guy might be tempted.
> 
> Now, before I call my guys and get their hopes up, tell me about this 500 dollar job you're offering. Answer the same questions I asked in my other post. The name of your company? Are you signing the checks or are you the bullbuck? Will they be running their own numbers? Size of the timber? Will they need to bring trailers? Yarder? Helicopter? If it's helicopter are they gonna fly the fallers in and out? Camp out or drive every day?
> 
> A quick reply from you would be welcome. Otherwise some of us are gonna start to think that maybe, just maybe, you're talking through your hat.


Gologit, I'm just a fella whoa been at this for a long time. Some of the mills here in Oregon will be signing the Check I receive because the fact is its the only way I'll operate. It guarantees fellas to get paid. The mills that are wanting to work with me I have convinced of the cutter demand that will soon not be met here and so are discussing with me the option of contacting directly for the mill. Many of the mills in Northern California have recognized the benefit this has in ensuring there wood gets cut.

Your right, most cutter in northern California are busheled. Here in Oregon it'd mostly day wage. Metzinger logging in northern California pays there cutters $600 a day day wage. Columbia helicopters logged a sierra burn last year that was also $600 a day.

Friendo, if you've got some good cutters and I'm sure you do we should stay contact here and when it all pans out you can have yourself a chat with the mills I'm chatting with to get a lagitamacy verification.

I don't have any signed contracts yet but I'm working on that and its sounding very promising. The word is from one mill they will use me. We are also discussing a jypo option. The jypo option will be good enough that the faster fellas will do better than $500 a day. Probably closer to $800.


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## slowp

I thought Columbia went out of business a couple years ago.


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## RandyMac




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## Shod

slowp said:


> I thought Columbia went out of business a couple years ago.


Nope!


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## slowp

Downton Abbey starts up soon.


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## Shod

Shod said:


> Nope!


In fact there's talk of opening up the Eliot......(big timber) and Erickson Air crane looks like there getting back into it also


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## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> I thought Columbia went out of business a couple years ago.


Seem to remember Columbia hiring hookers not long ago? May have been some other outfit though.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Downton Abbey starts up soon.


 If the tv set wasn't 300 miles away I might watch it.

Hey, I've been trying to think of an avatar for Oly. Any ideas?

How's the weather up there? How's Benny?


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## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> Seem to remember Columbia hiring hookers not long ago? May have been some other outfit though.



I had heard that Erickson had bought them out, but I guess it aint so.


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## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Seem to remember Columbia hiring hookers not long ago? May have been some other outfit though.


 Nah, that was a couple of their pilots that got caught in a sting in Portland.


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## slowp

Gologit said:


> If the tv set wasn't 300 miles away I might watch it.
> 
> Hey, I've been trying to think of an avatar for Oly. Any ideas?
> 
> How's the weather up there? How's Benny?



It was a decent day. Benny needs a bath but I need to heal up a bit before I can drag him into the bathroom. The house smells like dog.


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## Shod

slowp said:


> Downton Abbey starts up soon.


Not sure who that is?


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## slowp

You can watch Downton Abbey on line. Mystery! has a good series running with a really cute guy as the star, and he has a lab puppy.


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## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> You can watch Downton Abbey on line. Mystery! has a good series running with a really cute guy as the star, and he has a lab puppy.


yer such a gurl...


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> It was a decent day. Benny needs a bath but I need to heal up a bit before I can drag him into the bathroom. The house smells like dog.


 We're getting a little snow here. A lot of us are getting a little snow.


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## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> yer such a gurl...



Yes I am. Oh Poopy darn!! Downton Abbey is on but I've already seen this episode.


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## Shod

slowp said:


> Yes I am.


Ya well, I'm a sucker for lab pups. I might have to tune in. Not that I'm a complete sissy. I'm only sissy (ish)


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> You can watch Downton Abbey on line. Mystery! has a good series running with a really cute guy as the star, and he has a lab puppy.



Nah, if I watched that show I'd have to quit watching World's Funniest Airplane Crashes on YouTube.

The cute guy wouldn't be much of a draw but the Lab puppy might be.


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## bnmc98

Shod said:


> I've been cutting Timber for 28 years now. I've been in Alaska, California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Arizona. I've cut for almost all the Heli-Logging companies around Montana, Idaho, Oregon, yada, yada, yada and Yarders up and down the West Coast.
> 
> I wanted to share an observation I've recently made about a new area into which I've moved in northern Oregon on the coast. I'd also like to share an observations I've made around 17 years ago when working for a heli outfit close to Tillamook, Oregon. I'll start with the Tillamook experience.
> 
> Needless to say me and the Misses landed in Tillamook in September of 97. When we got to the job the Mill fella met us on the landing to go over specs. One point of interest was when the Mill fella requested that we please do not divolge to any of the local cutters how much we were making as there were local cutters on a job right next to us. At that time I remember the Elite cutter group that I tended to associate with had made a pact that we would not work for any less than $400 a day employee and the fact is that's what we got. It was a mentality of....this is dangerous and I'm worth my pay........Something many oldtimers used to proudly carry!
> 
> I was offered a full time job from the locals. I asked the pay and was replyed $150 a day. As you can imagine I damned need threw up! After all I had started my cutting career in Montana in 87 and by 1990 the pay was already at $225 a day.
> 
> You can imagine my surprise to discover that the proud tradition of the West Coast Cutter in Northern Oregon had no pride at all and the pride of those men showed in how much they thought they were worth. It was a slap in the face and a discrace to the heritage of the proud oldtimers whom emulated Moral fiber and true grit! It actually made me proud to be a Montana cutter at the time because at least Montana Men!!!!! Demanded a cutters wage!
> 
> Well for many years I steered clear of the Oregon Coast and often times the Washington Coast as it appeared to me that the degraded mentality had also swept over into Washington.
> 
> Well....recently I've found myself having moved to the northern Oregon coast to be closer to family, buy property, and settle into one place to live. I've made my retirement so at this point Money really isn't an issue. I would however like to point out an issue I've discovered soon once again inspecting the Proud Tradition of the Oregon West Coast Cutter.
> 
> Apon arriving I made a good many phone calls as I love my life as a cutter and I am truely proud to be a part of the heritage.
> 
> It was both sad and sickening for me to learn that many Oregon West Coast Cutters still considers a man to be worth less than a Montana cutter of little skill was worth more than 20 years ago.
> 
> My question is.....Really? Is this seriously what you believe you are worth? The Oregon West Coast Cutter......where men of high skill carry chainsaws with long bars falling big timber with 4 fourties.
> 
> Montana, where men pack small saws cutting lodgepole that are 60 ft tall.
> 
> Which Man would you rather be? If it is true that the defining mark of a real Man is whether they stand or squat to piss.
> 
> I'd rather pack a little chainsaw and cut lodgepole.
> 
> 
> Shod



Two words Supply and Demand...
and they do not care if you are a man or not.

That is what usually dictates pay, not attitude. might be some exceptions.
Just talking business 101.


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## Gologit

Go Seahawks!!! Oh, wait...never mind.


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## bnmc98

Gologit said:


> Go Seahawks!!! Oh, wait...never mind.



For next year.


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## Shod

bnmc98 said:


> Two words Supply and Demand...
> and they do not care if you are a man or not.
> 
> That is what usually dictates pay, not attitude. might be some exceptions.
> Just talking business 101.


Its pretty much 99% about supply and demand. In 2008 before the big crash the average cutter was well into there 50s. Now 7 years later most of them have retired along with a large number of cutters whom gravitated to the oil field in North Dakota. Now the logging industry appears to be making a slight attempt at a comeback. Even the slightest attempt is leaving the timber companies scrambling for cutters who no longer exist. The cutters pool is 1/3 of what it was in 2008.

Shod


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## windthrown

Mr. Shod, you read like a faller with a PhD, or maybe a BA. Yah, BA fits this thread to a T. BA seems to have these fantacies of late that he is a pro logger or arborist, and starts these lead-in threads here on AS about it. BA = BS. Methinks you are pulling Bob's plonker here, and Randy has sniffed you out.

If I am wrong I will buy you a beer at my nieces bar over toward the coast.


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## Shod

windthrown said:


> Mr. Shod, you read like a faller with a PhD, or maybe a BA. Yah, BA fits this thread to a T. BA seems to have these fantacies of late that he is a pro logger or arborist, and starts these lead-in threads here on AS about it. BA = BS. Methinks you are pulling Bob's plonker here, and Randy has sniffed you out.
> 
> If I am wrong I will buy you a beer at my nieces bar over toward the coast.


I don't drink, nor do I frequent bars, thank you for the offer though. 

Shod


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## RandyMac

In 1978 I made $200 a day, that equals $750 in today's funny money.


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## Shod

RandyMac said:


> In 1978 I made $200 a day, that equals $750 in today's funny money.


I know that statement is true. Lots of folks will never believe it. Where did all the Gypos go. There's damned few of us left.

Shod


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## windthrown

Shod said:


> I don't drink, nor do I frequent bars, thank you for the offer though.
> 
> Shod



A faller that does not drink? In Oregon? I never met one.

BA, you are dropping the wrong terms in the wrong places here, and spelling them wrong. You lack the western and logger's dialect. I see you...


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## Shod

windthrown said:


> A faller that does not drink? In Oregon? I never met one.
> 
> BA, you are dropping the wrong terms in the wrong places here, and spelling them wrong. You lack the western and logger's dialect. I see you...


Ya well, I'm not from Oregon ya fum ducker. Not to mention I'm a true Gypo. That means I eat right,sleep right, don't drink, or use tobacco. You see cutting logs when trying to produce is a lot like an Olympic athlete trying to win a gold metal. The athlete who's frequenting the local bar usually is running a phucking mile behind. Trust me fella I already know what most these day wage slugs are up to. You don't understand my lingo because you don't understand Gypo mentality. 

Hell, I think I'll just call my cutting partner high dollar Dave and well just cut these jobs the 2 of us. I know he can put a million a month on the ground by himself.

What's that going to take 8-10 of these day wage bar drinking slugs.

I'm outta here.

Shod


----------



## Shod

Shod said:


> Ya well, I'm not from Oregon ya fum ducker. Not to mention I'm a true Gypo. That means I eat right,sleep right, don't drink, or use tobacco. You see cutting logs when trying to produce is a lot like an Olympic athlete trying to win a gold metal. The athlete who's frequenting the local bar usually is running a phucking mile behind. Trust me fella I already know what most these day wage slugs are up to. You don't understand my lingo because you don't understand Gypo mentality.
> 
> Hell, I think I'll just call my cutting partner high dollar Dave and well just cut these jobs the 2 of us. I know he can put a million a month on the ground by himself.
> 
> What's that going to take 8-10 of these day wage bar drinking slugs.
> 
> I'm outta here.
> 
> Shod


Here's a history lesson in fallers lingo, in California there called Choppers, Alaska there called Bushlers. Washington there called Fallers, Oregon Coast there called day wage slugs. Some call em day hackers. Any way you look at it it stems from pure ass lazy!


----------



## chucker

?? i think i will stay home today cuz i am sick! sick of not making enough dough to feed the BULL **** LINE.........


----------



## bnmc98

Shod said:


> Here's a history lesson in fallers lingo, in California there called Choppers, Alaska there called Bushlers. Washington there called Fallers, Oregon Coast there called day wage slugs. Some call em day hackers. Any way you look at it it stems from pure ass lazy!



Wow, seems like any of us who do not meet your pay criteria is a waste of time for the industry and has a poor work ethic. who knew that if I demanded more money i was a better faller and worker than i am now.
boy i suck, maybe i'll go to the bar and drink cause thats all i'm good for.


----------



## Gologit

Shod said:


> Here's a history lesson in fallers lingo, in California there called Choppers, Alaska there called Bushlers. Washington there called Fallers, Oregon Coast there called day wage slugs. Some call em day hackers. Any way you look at it it stems from pure ass lazy!



Yup, definitely getting a lot of snow here.


----------



## Gologit

Shod said:


> I'm outta here.
> 
> Shod



Good.


----------



## Gologit

windthrown said:


> Methinks you are pulling Bob's plonker here,



Nah, he didn't ring true from the start. Too many mistakes, not enough questions answered, too many little things wrong with how he presents himself. The best fallers...and loggers... don't have to blow their own horn like he does.
I thought I'd play along. You know..."give 'em enough rope....".

And if I'm wrong, which sometimes happens, I'll help you with the beer buying.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Nah, he didn't ring true from the start. Too many mistakes, not enough questions answered, too many little things wrong with how he presents himself. The best fallers...and loggers... don't have to blow their own horn like he does.
> I thought I'd play along. You know..."give 'em enough rope....".
> 
> And if I'm wrong, which sometimes happens, I'll help you with the beer buying.


**** that! I'm halfway thru Colorado with the 394, 17lbs of snoose, 14 cans of folger's, and a pallet of donetto's.


----------



## square1

> boy i suck, maybe i'll go to the bar and drink cause thats all i'm good for.


Not so! You could do all this things and work in the oil fields if I read this thread right


----------



## slowp

[QUOTE="I'm outta here.
Shod[/QUOTE]

Yay. And don't pee all over your leg whilst you leave. You must've been burning up your fingers looking up terms to use on the internet.


----------



## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> Yay. And don't pee all over your leg whilst you leave. You must've been burning up your fingers looking up terms to use on the internet.


Bull-Donkey!


----------



## madhatte

I think I broke my forehead holding this eyebrow here up so long. Mighty big talk for such a paltry payout. Sure am surprised nobody knows this guy. Maybe we should call HBRN for a reference.


----------



## SliverPicker

Trollin' for suckers I'm guessing.

That said I was offered $500 for a 6- hour day last year on some helicopter ground a bit east of here last summer. Maybe his wage info is sort of on keel? Maybe he's a bit windy.


----------



## Trx250r180

I think 80 an hour is common for contract fallers around here ,you have to pay own L&I and taxes out of that


----------



## Shod

Fe


SliverPicker said:


> Trollin' for suckers I'm guessing.
> 
> That said I was offered $500 for a 6- hour day last year on some helicopter ground a bit east of here last summer. Maybe his wage info is sort of on keel? Maybe he's a bit windy.





SliverPicker said:


> Trollin' for suckers I'm guessing.
> 
> That said I was offered $500 for a 6- hour day last year on some helicopter ground a bit east of here last summer. Maybe his wage info is sort of on keel? Maybe he's a bit windy.


Most likely for Ron Grove.......I just looked that one up on the internet!

Shod


----------



## BeatCJ

I saw where a C module was paid $1146 a day last summer, but that's 2 qualified C fallers, wet rate, and a 12 hour day. But that wasn't Oregon Coastal Timber, it was that flatgrounder small stuff by Winthrop. They were in a hurry to demob, they had a 3 hour drive to the next job, and 4 hours to get there. After a stop to replace the socks and underwear that were stolen out of his tent. I think they got his paperwork done in time.

Oh yeah, I thought you were out a here at post 57?


----------



## Shod

Shod said:


> Fe
> 
> 
> Most likely for Ron Grove.......I just looked that one up on the internet!
> 
> Shod


I know it wasn't Mike Norman Cutting, there kinda on the cheap side. Superior Heli has always been a bit cheap. I guess there calling themselves Swanson Group nowadays.

Columbia is still working.....anyone who knows Steve or Stan Cronoster already know that. Ron grove is there other contractor. Sheesh Gologit.....seems your a bit outta the loop now days. Of coarse Ron's contracting for Kroman also.

They just finished up a job out of Levenworth Wa. Ron's got some work at the moment south of roseburg but its paying real cheap so you might want to think twice. Probably be better off day wage hacking for Jeff Wagle if your from the Rosebirg area. I hear Huffman @ Wright are finally running fellas on the numbers but most you fellas that are outta the loop probably have no idea who any of these people are. If you don't then your definitely not in the loop. If you say you do I might ask a few questions just to make sure your not trying to blow smoke up my ass.

For anyone in California who ever worked for Bob and Tom......Bob passed away a few years back. He was a damn good man.....sure miss him.

Shod


----------



## HuskStihl

Shod said:


> For anyone in California who ever worked for Bob and Tom......Bob passed away a few years back.


Funny. I had a weird feeling the other day that Bob _might_ just be a zombie. Suspicions confirmed.
BTW, no-worries, as it's _cool_ to be a zombie, vampire or were-wolf these days


----------



## Shod

Shod said:


> I know it wasn't Mike Norman Cutting, there kinda on the cheap side. Superior Heli has always been a bit cheap. I guess there calling themselves Swanson Group nowadays.
> 
> Columbia is still working.....anyone who knows Steve or Stan Cronoster already know that. Ron grove is there other contractor. Sheesh Gologit.....seems your a bit outta the loop now days. Of coarse Ron's contracting for Kroman also.
> 
> They just finished up a job out of Levenworth Wa. Ron's got some work at the moment south of roseburg but its paying real cheap so you might want to think twice. Probably be better off day wage hacking for Jeff Wagle if your from the Rosebirg area. I hear Huffman @ Wright are finally running fellas on the numbers but most you fellas that are outta the loop probably have no idea who any of these people are. If you don't then your definitely not in the loop. If you say you do I might ask a few questions just to make sure your not trying to blow smoke up my ass.
> 
> For anyone in California who ever worked for Bob and Tom......Bob passed away a few years back. He was a damn good man.....sure miss him.
> 
> Shod


Goligit, I see your from Redwood Country. Thought if ask a few questions just to make sure your lagit. Do you know Lester Brown? Which logging company did he work for? How about Dave Walters? Dale Fuhgate? **** Shirman? Who owns the Wildwood saw shop. What town is it in? Gotta make sure your who you say you are bud. 

I'm smelling smoke!

Shod


----------



## Gypo Logger

Anyone know these guys? I found this pic on a google search.


----------



## slowp

Gypo Logger said:


> Anyone know these guys? I found this pic on a google search.View attachment 402231



Of course. Does that mean I'm in The Loop? Pretty sad if it does...

Think Season 1 of the Manly Soap Opera.


----------



## Trx250r180

I think they are from oregon Gypo,do not know them personally though ,just the washington guys i know


----------



## Shod

Gypo Logger said:


> Anyone know these guys? I found this pic on a google search.View attachment 402231


Kanooks maybe? The Stihl has the Arctic air filter cover and those saws are only sold in Canada! Seems a bit like a poser pic because the husky looks brand new and the bar appears to have not been into a tree yet. Kinda makes me think season one of the manly soap myself. The Kid is a Cutter for sure as you can see his inside chaps looped over where inside chaps loop over.

How's my posing going?

Shod


----------



## Trx250r180

That saw has movie makeup on it


----------



## Gypo Logger

[QUOTE

How's my posing going?

Shod[/QUOTE]
I think you're doing just fine.
Isn't the stihl an 088? If so I don't think they came in Arctic. The husky looks to be a 385 or 390.
I bet you are right about the pic being from Canada.


----------



## windthrown

Gologit said:


> Nah, he didn't ring true from the start. Too many mistakes, not enough questions answered, too many little things wrong with how he presents himself. The best fallers...and loggers... don't have to blow their own horn like he does.
> I thought I'd play along. You know..."give 'em enough rope....".
> 
> And if I'm wrong, which sometimes happens, I'll help you with the beer buying.



Yah, I was thinking this morning that I was ruining your fun. You and RMac sniffed him out pretty fast. As you said, he would have no teeth in a hurry up in Astoria. Or Tillamook. Or wherever in the Midwest he resides. 

Fish on! I will supply the rope, and some Papst. Hey, more for the rest of us, he does not drink.


----------



## slowp

The second one is Duane, and the big guy is the boss. They are out of Vernonia, OR, I think and were on the first season of Axe Men. The name of their outfit has failed me. 
I'll look it up on Wickpedia, of course.


----------



## slowp

Here it is. http://www.history.com/shows/ax-men/cast/season-1-ax-men Piehl Logging.


----------



## Shod

Gypo Logger said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> How's my posing going?
> 
> Shod


I think you're doing just fine.
Isn't the stihl an 088? If so I don't think they came in Arctic. The husky looks to be a 385 or 390.
I bet you are right about the pic being from Canada.[/QUOTE]


Your right Gypo

Shod


----------



## Gypo Logger

How about these guys? Anybody see any relatives?
John


----------



## Gypo Logger

How did I get the dual pics? I'm showing my duplicity. Lol


----------



## Shod

windthrown said:


> Yah, I was thinking this morning that I was ruining your fun. You and RMac sniffed him out pretty fast. As you said, he would have no teeth in a hurry up in Astoria. Or Tillamook. Or wherever in the Midwest he resides.
> 
> Fish on! I will supply the rope, and some Papst. Hey, more for the rest of us, he does not drink.



I don't know if you realize it or not but you kinda hung yourself with your buddies rope with that comment.

I guess your pretty impressed with warehouser day wagers?

I can give you Mike O'Brien's number if your looking for a job.

Shod


----------



## Gologit

windthrown said:


> Yah, I was thinking this morning that I was ruining your fun. You and RMac sniffed him out pretty fast. As you said, he would have no teeth in a hurry up in Astoria. Or Tillamook. Or wherever in the Midwest he resides.
> 
> Fish on! I will supply the rope, and some Papst. Hey, more for the rest of us, he does not drink.



Yup, sounds good. I'll just sit back and watch the fun. This whole thread is good for grins.

In the meantime, I just pulled a Uhaul trailer from Grass Valley to Fortuna and now I have to unload the SOB. I am never moving again!


----------



## Shod

Gologit said:


> Yup, sounds good. I'll just sit back and watch the fun. This whole thread is good for grins.
> 
> In the meantime, I just pulled a Uhaul trailer from Grass Valley to Fortuna and now I have to unload the SOB. I am never moving again!




Gologit, hope your move went well. 

If you've cut a fair bit around the Fortuna area I highly doubt your all that impressed with what you'd find in Tillamook or Astoria. Fortuna is definitely not day slug territory.

If you get the chance stop in at the Widow White RV in McKinleyville and tell the old logger Charlie Montana says hello. Charlie will be more than happy to tell you who I am.

Shod


----------



## windthrown

Shod said:


> Ya well, I'm not from Oregon ya fum ducker. Not to mention I'm a true Gypo. That means I eat right,sleep right, don't drink, or use tobacco. You see cutting logs when trying to produce is a lot like an Olympic athlete trying to win a gold metal. The athlete who's frequenting the local bar usually is running a phucking mile behind. Trust me fella I already know what most these day wage slugs are up to. You don't understand my lingo because you don't understand Gypo mentality.
> 
> Hell, I think I'll just call my cutting partner high dollar Dave and well just cut these jobs the 2 of us. I know he can put a million a month on the ground by himself.
> 
> What's that going to take 8-10 of these day wage bar drinking slugs.
> 
> I'm outta here.
> 
> Shod



A true gypo?  Oh Ape, you are so good with words. But you keep giving yourself away. Same old same old. My BS meter is so far off the scale it shattered. For your next attempt to pretend to be a west coast 'cutter', gyppos are union busting, beer drinking, cigarette smoking cursing hacks that get into bar brawls on a regular basis. See that avatar I have here? Hank is the king of the gyppo loggers. You could say that Ken coined the term, or at least brought it into common use. You savvy, Brush Ape?

I thought that you were out of here Fake Gypo , the door hit you in the back of the head and you were Shanghai'd out of Astoria on a freighter and enslaved in some shanty in SE Asia where you are busy hacking web sites from. I see you have also cultivated your other Brush Ape renditions cross posting from and to your other noob personae to give yourself more credibility here. So typical of your methods here of late. It must be hard keeping track of all those personalities in your head.


----------



## windthrown

Gologit said:


> Yup, sounds good. I'll just sit back and watch the fun. This whole thread is good for grins.
> 
> In the meantime, I just pulled a Uhaul trailer from Grass Valley to Fortuna and now I have to unload the SOB. I am never moving again!



Humbolt? Man, you gonna be wet there compared to the Sierra foothills. Never move, yes. Always sucks.


----------



## treeslayer2003

WTF is this? maybe i should sell out and come out there with 1270 to make some real money LOL

seriuosly tho, i never herd of fallers getting a day rate.......i'd be broke fast paying that way. pay by the thousand or load, a good faller will make money.

on second thought, i think i'll just stay here and slay these fat poplar long as i can get um.


----------



## Shod

windthrown said:


> Humbolt? Man, you gonna be wet there compared to the Sierra foothills. Never move, yes. Always sucks.



Gologit, I'm requesting a little more rope Friendo....your pale windthrown is using it all on himself and he won't save any for me.

You was right.....this is gonna get kinda comical.

Shod​


----------



## 1270d

I have no reason to doubt, and I don't get to cut a lot of good timber here in pulp land, so Shod could you throw up some pics for this midwesterner to check out?


----------



## slowp

treeslayer2003 said:


> WTF is this? maybe i should sell out and come out there with 1270 to make some real money LOL
> 
> seriuosly tho, i never herd of fallers getting a day rate.......i'd be broke fast paying that way. pay by the thousand or load, a good faller will make money.
> 
> on second thought, i think i'll just stay here and slay these fat poplar long as i can get um.



Correct me, if I'm wrong, but fallers started getting paid by the hour when the trees got smaller. Or paid by the day. Most are cutting in plantations now. And, the trend seems to be to just fall the tree and let the delimber or processor on the landing do the rest.


----------



## treeslayer2003

could be in some places Ms. P........here the few of us left only hand fall big timber of buffers the machines can't go into.
i guess a guy would have to prove to me he was worth it for an hourly wage. on the other hand, i'v had piece rate fallers make a terrible mess just getting alot on the ground so they can get paid.

all this is why i just move what i can by myself now.


----------



## Shod

treeslayer2003 said:


> WTF is this? maybe i should sell out and come out there with 1270 to make some real money LOL
> 
> seriuosly tho, i never herd of fallers getting a day rate.......i'd be broke fast paying that way. pay by the thousand or load, a good faller will make money.
> 
> on second thought, i think i'll just stay here and slay these fat poplar long as i can get um.



Careful, that kind of talk is pretty damn offensive in these parts.

I have to ask treeslayer, 

If you were in my shoes looking for some good cutters who would you hire?

The faller who's been daywaging for the last 20 years or would you go looking in bushler territory?

I'm just trying to make an educated business decision here.

Thanks
Shod


----------



## 1270d

isnt a good hand a good hand whether paid by the piece or time?


----------



## treeslayer2003

well Shod, things are so different between here and there, i'm not sure how to answer you. it seems like around here every few years there is some cat that can out do every one that came before him and there fore he is worth more. they never make it.
i do understand there is a lot more hand falling on your side. i do agree a good faller should get paid well.........i would want to get paid well. i just got sic of giving guys a shot that really didn't know what they were doing.
good luck to you. it just seems to me that you could go broke fast paying that good a money per hour if the guy is not producing logs in a hurry.
no real offense intended.........a little advice tho, tone down just a smidge, ya might get more response to what you want to know.


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> isnt a good hand a good hand whether paid by the piece or time?


yes. but what difference would it make to the good faller how he gets paid if its good pay?

Shod i guess my best advice would be to talk to those who know who the good fallers are in that area. when in rome, do as the romans.......


----------



## Gypo Logger

I much prefer to get paid for wood produced and not by the hr., mostly because I feel guilty if I need or want to stop.
I have worked for 50-80$/hr., but only for 4-6 hrs.
I'd much rather work for 150.00/cord, felled blocked and stacked.
Haven't cut any real timber since 07 but it was easy to gross 500.00 a tree then. Finding it was the hard part.
John


----------



## Shod

slowp said:


> Correct me, if I'm wrong, but fallers started getting paid by the hour when the trees got smaller. Or paid by the day. Most are cutting in plantations now. And, the trend seems to be to just fall the tree and let the delimber or processor on the landing do the rest.



OK...since your wrong I'll correct you. Day wage has been around for 50 years. When it was first introduced most every faller rejected the thought of it and considered it to be an act of immorality. The term Gypo logger was held with high regard and I can remember great uncles sitting around campfires having deep discussions about such things as moral value and Gypo spirit. In fact most of those great men often referred to the act of any mill or logger that tried to introduce daywage as something that would inevitably destroy the moral fiber of the working man.

Even in an atmosphere of Men of High Moral value Men of lower moral value attempted repeatedly to introduce a day wage and some succeeded.

Men who rejected the idea of a daywage made the claim that it would make a man lazy and this would not be a good thing because when a man becomes lazy it would ruin the man.

Eventually little by little as moral value slipped from generation to generation the introduction of the daywage by the Oregon western mills and men was gradually introduced until the great plagg swept the land.

The oldtimers claimed it would make men lazy while the educated mill owners whom lack the common sence of the working man reasoned that it really would not change production that much.

The mill owners in Western Oregon and many parts of Washington were wrong.

However an apple doesn't spoil in one day.....it takes time. As the working man began to spoil just as the oldtimers claimed would happen the mills continued for years to keep the price extremely low. After all....now the mills were working with men who no longer produced and could not afford to pay more

In many other parts of the West Coast that Gypo was still the order of the day Men continued to make several $100 a day more than the man whom compromised for the daywage.

Shod


----------



## treeslayer2003

i think i understand what your tryin to say here. i would be considered a gypo over there.
so, to be clear you are in favor of a hourly wage as opposed to day wage? you don't like piece rate? or its just not done there?


----------



## slowp

Day wage has been around.. Here, where the trees were big, getting paid by the board foot was more common and paid better for a good faller. You didn't mention that. 

Gypo loggers ? That was and still is a term, not particularly "honorable" for a small time operator with well used, equipment, held together with haywire. They pick up the smaller jobs and more jobs now because there are no more mill crews in this area, or unionized crews. 

Morals have nothing to do with it. You either get paid by the day or by the hour around here because the wood is small now. Trees still have to be cut one at a time, but you ought to know that if you were real. 

This is funny. Honor? Morals? from one who speaks about peeing methods? Talks ill of "Mexicans". I ran into a very good hooktender on a very good crew who you'd probably call a Mexican. He was good at what he did and probably got paid more for being the hooktender, and at the usual rate. I don't go around asking how much people are paid. But I have noticed that people like you, who have to advertise or beg to get folks to work for them, are usually ones who didn't pay the crew well, or pay them at all, or had unsafe working habits, or were just jerks. The good employers have the same folks working for them and don't need to brag or boast of their urination styles on an internet forum and phish for info. In fact, why were you on the computer all day? If it was weather, you should have been out looking at other cutting jobs, or fishing. 


Tell me about Farmer Loggers....Maybe you are one?


----------



## hammerlogging

This guys full of ****


----------



## hammerlogging

A decided to add in my response to a friend wondering if this guy might be for real:

totally full of ****. Just a bunch of lingo. total nonsense. He's said that the wage is so low. but theres nobody cutting, so he can name his price. So would everyone else then.

a lot of day waging $/day is low cause its low skill. a lot out there is just 35 year old plantation, dump and run.

I've paid a team $900/day before so $500 isn't crazy, but not likely. But his presentation makes it seem like he is total bs

I read an oldtimer once say something like "it was a sad day when the day wage went away and everyone started cutting by scale, took all the fun and banter and conversation out of the woods."

There are pros and cons and advantages and disadvantages to each payment method. one may more suited to a particular situation, I've chosen the way I pay for a reason too.


----------



## hammerlogging

And no, professionals don't talk like this guy.


----------



## Shod

treeslayer2003 said:


> well Shod, things are so different between here and there, i'm not sure how to answer you. it seems like around here every few years there is some cat that can out do every one that came before him and there fore he is worth more. they never make it.
> i do understand there is a lot more hand falling on your side. i do agree a good faller should get paid well.........i would want to get paid well. i just got sic of giving guys a shot that really didn't know what they were doing.
> good luck to you. it just seems to me that you could go broke fast paying that good a money per hour if the guy is not producing logs in a hurry.
> no real offense intended.........a little advice tho, tone down just a smidge, ya might get more response to what you want to know.


 

I don't think your quite following what I'm doing. 

Fellas like myself show up and bid the extra work that the locals can't keep up with when the market picks up. 

The work we pick up for Helicopters and recently some local loggers is most often paid Gypo rather than day wage just because its how we like to do it. 

The problem with setting a Gypo price for a fella who likes to day wage is the day wager will never make it. As you stated however.....set the price per thousand and a good faller will make money. I set the price so A Gypo will make a minimum of $500 and a few fallers will cut enouph to make $1000 a day.

I'm simply trying to root out who the Gypos in this area are and yes there are a few. Id rather higher 10 Gypos than 50 day wagers. A lot less to keep track of and the wood gets cut just as fast. I'll probably end up with 4 or 5 good Gypo fallers from this area.

Shod


----------



## northmanlogging

Well its been a day... No PM...

By the way that stihl was a regular ole still 088/880 arctic cover be damned... and those folks are from Oregon, I did watch a little of the first man Drama season, and a new saw for a Pro faller is not something out of the ordinary (even though I remember that dude running a Sachs)

Gyppos have never been taken seriously by the "Big" outfits, or should I say where never taken seriously, since the big outfits are pretty much gone...

Perhaps you are confusing your logger dictionary with Timber Tramp or Tramp Busheller a different other term for day wager or busheller...

Speaking of pissing... you have enough rope you can start trying to piss up it, that is if you can get it around your beer belly.


----------



## 1270d

Speaking of trampbusheler, has anyone heard from him in a while?


----------



## Shod

windthrown said:


> A true gypo?  Oh Ape, you are so good with words. But you keep giving yourself away. Same old same old. My BS meter is so far off the scale it shattered. For your next attempt to pretend to be a west coast 'cutter', gyppos are union busting, beer drinking, cigarette smoking cursing hacks that get into bar brawls on a regular basis. See that avatar I have here? Hank is the king of the gyppo loggers. You could say that Ken coined the term, or at least brought it into common use. You savvy, Brush Ape?
> 
> I thought that you were out of here Fake Gypo , the door hit you in the back of the head and you were Shanghai'd out of Astoria on a freighter and enslaved in some shanty in SE Asia where you are busy hacking web sites from. I see you have also cultivated your other Brush Ape renditions cross posting from and to your other noob personae to give yourself more credibility here. So typical of your methods here of late. It must be hard keeping track of all those personalities in your head.




And the winner goes to windthrown! 

The only fella around here smart enouph to actually sniff me out.

Its true, I am the one and only and great brush ape! Tell Randy I said Hello!

Ta ta for now till I show up unexpectedly 

Brush Ape


----------



## treeslayer2003

you have got to be phucking kidding..........dirtbag


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> Speaking of trampbusheler, has anyone heard from him in a while?


no, but i was wishing he would show up until now.


----------



## bitzer

Duane (the guy holding the shiny new 390) gave his son the best advice I've ever heard about timber falling. He was breakin him in ya see and he told him the only thing ya gotta remember is this, "fallin and buckin, fightin and phuckin," and by God he was right.


----------



## stihl sawing

Shod said:


> And the winner goes to windthrown!
> 
> The only fella around here smart enouph to actually sniff me out.
> 
> Its true, I am the one and only and great brush ape! Tell Randy I said Hello!
> 
> Ta ta for now *till I show up unexpectedly*
> 
> Brush Ape


Not with that username you won't.


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## bitzer

Shod said:


> And the winner goes to windthrown!
> 
> The only fella around here smart enouph to actually sniff me out.
> 
> Its true, I am the one and only and great brush ape! Tell Randy I said Hello!
> 
> Ta ta for now till I show up unexpectedly
> 
> Brush Ape


Daddy didn't love you enough or what?


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## treeslayer2003

bitz, hammer, 1270 and norhty, you guys don't go to chainsaw much. brush ape is a troll that keeps coming back like a dam pimple on yer back ya can't reach. disreguard this whole thread, its just horse malarky........


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## Trx250r180

why do i here his voice when shod types ?


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## treeslayer2003

hickory stick wraped in 404 be nice in here once in a while


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## windthrown

Another day that BA exposes himself again. Same old same old.


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## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> seriuosly tho, i never herd of fallers getting a day rate.......i'd be broke fast paying that way. pay by the thousand or load, a good faller will make money.



Day waging came in as the huge old growth timber started to get scarce. In big timber a busheler could make good money but in smaller second growth it became a starvation deal. 
I've cut for day wages quite a bit and there's usually no goofing off. The side rod or bull buck knows about how much wood a guy should get on the ground taking into consideration the terrain and the timber. There are usually no hard and fast numbers but if everybody else is cutting a certain amount and one guy keeps coming up short it shows up real quick. A faller might have an off day here and there but when his production shows any kind of drop people start watching. It actually puts more pressure on the faller than working by the foot. The guys running the jobs pay attention. They have to. Somebody is watching them, too.

And...a tip of the hat to Windthrown for outting yet another BA persona. BA used to be kind of funny and sometimes even entertaining. Not often, granted, but sometimes.
Now he's just pathetic. The man needs to get himself some help. If he wasn't such an obnoxious ass hole he'd probably realize that.


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## treeslayer2003

i didn't expect him here, shame on me.
i guess its different here Bob, one faller with no one else falling is the norm. i can see what your saying though.


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## northmanlogging

I don't spend much time on the CS side since it seems like all the same ole questions quickly followed by who's got the biggest "saw"... or your tool is a funny color thing... Boring really...

Been awhile since I poked my head into the home helper thing too...


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## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> i didn't expect him here, shame on me.
> i guess its different here Bob, one faller with no one else falling is the norm. i can see what your saying though.



That's a lot of it I think...the difference in the type of wood and the volume required to make it pay. On a decent sized job there might be several fallers working at once and ...given similarities in timber and terrain....a goof off will stand out quick.


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## RandyMac

Few things give as much incentive that working for yourself does.
I did day wage in Lodgepole, mostly scale or by the piece.


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## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> I don't spend much time on the CS side since it seems like all the same ole questions quickly followed by who's got the biggest "saw"... or your tool is a funny color thing... Boring really...
> 
> Been awhile since I poked my head into the home helper thing too...


 What???!!! You don't go to Chainsaw? Why not? Don't you care whose 661 with a 20" bar is cutting a cookie 1/1000ths of a second faster than somebody elses? Don't you lie awake nights wondering which of the latest crop of saw building wonder boys has the fastest saw? My God man, where's your humanity?
I'll bet you can't even name from memory more than fifteen or twenty different kinds of saw oil and the chemical properties of each. Those guys in Chainsaw can. And do. And then they argue endlessly with each other about it. Endlessly.

Wait a minute...I think maybe I just answered my own question.


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## RandyMac

I go there to step on puppies


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## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> I go there to step on puppies



Wearing your calks when you do, I hope.


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## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Wearing your calks when you do, I hope.



nearly new Wescos


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## windthrown

Gologit said:


> .
> And...a tip of the hat to Windthrown for outting yet another BA persona. BA used to be kind of funny and sometimes even entertaining. Not often, granted, but sometimes.
> Now he's just pathetic. The man needs to get himself some help. If he wasn't such an obnoxious ass hole he'd probably realize that.



Naw, you, SlowP and Randy had all ratted him out before I even saw this thread. The BA could keep an army of psychiatrists busy for eternity. He has been busy here again. He has added many userIDs since he was booted off of AS as BA and Overclock. Many of his personas became members in November '14 through January of '15. He is easy to spot. As a new member he posts some BS and then he runs with it, and of late he cross posts to himself as other members. In this thread that would be 'square1' above. There was another thread just like this one where he posed as a seasoned arborist in Maine, full of the same BS as this one. SS has cleaned up over a dozen of him here in the last month.


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## Cedarkerf

Funny Jani and i ran into him llast timev we went to the coast


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## Gologit

windthrown said:


> Naw, you, SlowP and Randy had all ratted him out before I even saw this thread. The BA could keep an army of psychiatrists busy for eternity. He has been busy here again. He has added many userIDs since he was booted off of AS as BA and Overclock. Many of his personas became members in November '14 through January of '15. He is easy to spot. As a new member he posts some BS and then he runs with it, and of late he cross posts to himself as other members. In this thread that would be 'square1' above. There was another thread just like this one where he posed as a seasoned arborist in Maine, full of the same BS as this one. SS has cleaned up over a dozen of him here in the last month.



That's good. I'm glad SS is doing something constructive.


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## Gypo Logger

I'm disappointed in you Shod, for a bit there, I thought you were the real thing.


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## Gypo Logger

windthrown said:


> Naw, you, SlowP and Randy had all ratted him out before I even saw this thread. The BA could keep an army of psychiatrists busy for eternity. He has been busy here again. He has added many userIDs since he was booted off of AS as BA and Overclock. Many of his personas became members in November '14 through January of '15. He is easy to spot. As a new member he posts some BS and then he runs with it, and of late he cross posts to himself as other members. In this thread that would be 'square1' above. There was another thread just like this one where he posed as a seasoned arborist in Maine, full of the same BS as this one. SS has cleaned up over a dozen of him here in the last month.


Stamper, let's just forget about it and we'll have a beer.


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## madhatte

I have clobbered a few BA alts as well. I usually wait until he actually breaks a rule or admits who he is, though, and I missed this one because somebody got to him first! Ah, well, this game of whack-a-mole is far from over, I fear.


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## Gypo Logger

madhatte said:


> I have clobbered a few BA alts as well. I usually wait until he actually breaks a rule or admits who he is, though, and I missed this one because somebody got to him first! Ah, well, this game of whack-a-mole is far from over, I fear.


How come BA needs to be such a mole? Isn't it a big waste of energy? Why can't he just fit in like the rest of us?
John


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## windthrown

Gypo Logger said:


> Stamper, let's just forget about it and we'll have a beer.



You cannot forget about this psychopath. He will pop here again tomorrow or the nest day, and suck more people in. Must be vigilant.

As for the beer well, that's a given.


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## Gypo Logger

windthrown said:


> You cannot forget about this psychopath. He will pop here again tomorrow or the nest day, and suck more people in. Must be vigilant.
> 
> As for the beer well, that's a given.


Henry, I only have two beers left. I'd share them with you and BA if you were here and I'd get some more because that's what Gypo's do. Woodcutters seem to be very tolerant and independent and know how to make it on their own for some unknown reason. 
Very Best Regards,
John


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## Gypo Logger

I'm going where the sun keeps shining thru the pouring rain. Going where the weather suites my clothes. Skipping over the ocean like a stone.


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## 1270d

I only come to the Logging part here. Never heard of the trolls.


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## square1

> Never heard of the trolls.


Look south, under the bridge


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## Skeans

slowp said:


> Skeans cuts in the Astoria area.


From Sheridan to up the columbia haven't made it to the coast side of the mountains yet hope never to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chucker

Gypo Logger said:


> How come BA needs to be such a mole? Isn't it a big waste of energy? Why can't he just fit in like the rest of us?
> John


! little man/most important man syndrome, usually brought on by lack of experience of a "WANNA BE BEEN THERE DONE THAT ATTITUDE".....


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## HuskStihl

This thread reminded me of my favorite scene from my favorite movie. The BA makes his appearance at 1:16. Bob,Randy,and Henry and Patty are all deNiro, I'm the French guy, Mike's "Gregor", 1270 is the race car driving guy, and Northman didn't make the casting call


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## treeslayer2003

northy woulda smashed sumthin


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## HuskStihl

They didn't film this with a wide angle lens


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## 1270d

square1 said:


> Look south, under the bridge



All the ones I know from down there are decent folks.


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## northmanlogging

I'd be the guy on the phone with all the fake money... but the long memory... not to mention the cute redhead doing my bidding.


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## RandyMac

I would the implied shadowy character, used as a threat to enforce compliance.


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## 2dogs

I'm the Amish guy behind the scenes that says (to anyone who will listen) "This only happens because I let it happen"


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## SliverPicker

Had I been called up to try out for a part I would have missed my appointment due to too much time searching for my Spencer tape in my whirlwind-riddled, leaking roofed, grease smelling tool trailer. D- as usual.


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## slowp

Since I am what I am, and not all that photogenic, I would prefer to be the director. Work with me people!

Once again, telling loggers what to do.


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## Gologit

Am I the only one here who hasn't seen that movie? Day late and a dollar short, as usual.


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## treeslayer2003

nope, i have no clue.........i have missed alot of stuff. to much time in the woods lol.

is there a sniper in it? i will apply for that if there is.


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## Sawdawg

Anybody know how I can get hold of Ron Grove?


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## RiverLogger

Sawdawg said:


> Anybody know how I can get hold of Ron Grove?[


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## Joe46

Well a guy don't make an appearance for several months and he really falls behind


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## madhatte

My movie debut? 

"well, I've been to college and I've learned how
to tie ribbons all around
and look up in my rulebook for
a way to shut you down"

Ol' Buzz didn't have the bet of opinions of us Forestry types, but I can hardly blame him.


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## Tree Feller

It’s been over a year since I’ve been on here. I’m no logger and no professional faller for sure! I read through this whole freakin thread and got to where windthrow called him bush ape and suddenly remembered!! I thought holy s*** you have got to be kidding me! I can’t believe I wasted this much time with this nut! Stay on the look out!!


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## Chris nelson

Shod said:


> I've been cutting Timber for 28 years now. I've been in Alaska, California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Arizona. I've cut for almost all the Heli-Logging companies around Montana, Idaho, Oregon, yada, yada, yada and Yarders up and down the West Coast.
> 
> I wanted to share an observation I've recently made about a new area into which I've moved in northern Oregon on the coast. I'd also like to share an observations I've made around 17 years ago when working for a heli outfit close to Tillamook, Oregon. I'll start with the Tillamook experience.
> 
> Needless to say me and the Misses landed in Tillamook in September of 97. When we got to the job the Mill fella met us on the landing to go over specs. One point of interest was when the Mill fella requested that we please do not divolge to any of the local cutters how much we were making as there were local cutters on a job right next to us. At that time I remember the Elite cutter group that I tended to associate with had made a pact that we would not work for any less than $400 a day employee and the fact is that's what we got. It was a mentality of....this is dangerous and I'm worth my pay........Something many oldtimers used to proudly carry!
> 
> I was offered a full time job from the locals. I asked the pay and was replyed $150 a day. As you can imagine I damned need threw up! After all I had started my cutting career in Montana in 87 and by 1990 the pay was already at $225 a day.
> 
> You can imagine my surprise to discover that the proud tradition of the West Coast Cutter in Northern Oregon had no pride at all and the pride of those men showed in how much they thought they were worth. It was a slap in the face and a discrace to the heritage of the proud oldtimers whom emulated Moral fiber and true grit! It actually made me proud to be a Montana cutter at the time because at least Montana Men!!!!! Demanded a cutters wage!
> 
> Well for many years I steered clear of the Oregon Coast and often times the Washington Coast as it appeared to me that the degraded mentality had also swept over into Washington.
> 
> Well....recently I've found myself having moved to the northern Oregon coast to be closer to family, buy property, and settle into one place to live. I've made my retirement so at this point Money really isn't an issue. I would however like to point out an issue I've discovered soon once again inspecting the Proud Tradition of the Oregon West Coast Cutter.
> 
> Apon arriving I made a good many phone calls as I love my life as a cutter and I am truely proud to be a part of the heritage.
> 
> It was both sad and sickening for me to learn that many Oregon West Coast Cutters still considers a man to be worth less than a Montana cutter of little skill was worth more than 20 years ago.
> 
> My question is.....Really? Is this seriously what you believe you are worth? The Oregon West Coast Cutter......where men of high skill carry chainsaws with long bars falling big timber with 4 fourties.
> 
> Montana, where men pack small saws cutting lodgepole that are 60 ft tall.
> 
> Which Man would you rather be? If it is true that the defining mark of a real Man is whether they stand or squat to piss.
> 
> I'd rather pack a little chainsaw and cut lodgepole.
> 
> 
> Shod








Yes, do you know where I can sign up to cut on fires for the forest service? I have my numbers and am a sole proprietor


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## madhatte

I know @2dogs posted something a few weeks back, but I don't remember where.


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## catbuster

Chris nelson said:


> Yes, do you know where I can sign up to cut on fires for the forest service? I have my numbers and am a sole proprietor



It depends. In some areas you need S-130/190 period, maybe S-212 for felling and NIMS 100/200. In others hired guns just have a safety induction in the off season. You might want to give your local FD or branch of USFS a call and explain your experience and situation. They can probably help you in the door better than we can here. It’s not always easy to get in, but once you’re on the list you’re usually there for a long time, provided you do good work.


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## ArtB

Missed this thread 4 years ago... scanned thru it till I saw the OP outed .

Initial thoughts were the OP sure had some problem. Worth scanning the non- OP interesting comments from the real folks in the field that were worth reading .


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## HumBurner

edit: We aren't a logging crew, but a fuel reduction/thinning crew who also sometimes does hazard work around houses. No climber on crew, though we have someone we recommend and combine jobs with semi-frequently so the client gets the most bang for their buck.

I'm in SoHum. As a 10 year veteran swamper, I earn $26/hour before tax; started at $15/hour and worked my way up. As a sawyer, my rate varies. For friends, it's $20-$25/hour based on income. My rate is going up to $25-28/hour for friends in 2020; again based on income/age, and $30/hour for non-friends. That's working 7-10 hour days depending on the amount of daylight and weather, and sometimes involves upwards of 3 hours of driving roundtrip on some of the worst paved and rock/dirt roads you can imagine. When doing sidejobs, it's usually just me, so cutting, swamping, burning, staging, bucking, etc.

I have no certifications or official paperwork, not licensed, bonded, or insured. Just lots of experience and watching/learning from fallers with 40+ years of experience ranging from basic thinning/falling to wildland hazard tree removal. I've also had the pleasure of learning what NOT to do from an ex-landlord who I have no idea how he survived cutting trees for 30 years (just firewood, but 5-8 cords per year) with some of the things he's done.

I supply all my own gear, aside from the tools the boss-man has (like grip hoist, cables, etc.)

I barely get by on what I make as it is, but for the kind of work we do, we're already garnering higher pay than some in our area. Good days i can make $250-300. Typical days are $175-200, both pre-tax. Many of my clients feel I undervalue my labor and are generous with bonuses/tips and food/produce or other goodies. I was recently promoted to sawyer on our crew, and hopefully after we finish our current job there will be a pay-raise.


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