# Questions from a wannabe newbie



## Onelick (Dec 22, 2005)

Hey everyone,
I have some questions about starting up a business that need to be answered by more experienced business owners. I've been semi-lurking on the site gathering some information, doing searches, even posting some. My questions are this:
1. I want to start my own business. How is the best way to get experience and practice climbing? I plan on going to several Arbormaster classes in the future, but do I go work parttime for someone first to get some time under my belt? or do I go to the Arbormaster class first to learn the correct way without having some bad habits to get rid of?
2. This business that I want to start will start out as parttime since I already have a full time job as a firefighter. We work 24 hrs on and 48 hrs off. So I want to do this business on the 48 hrs I'm off. Which route is better for this scenerio? A contract climber? or a full service tree company?
3. It seems almost everyone on here started out working from the back of their pickup truck. But then, when their business got big enough for lots of trucks and chippers and stuff, they bash the pickup truck guys saying they are hacks. How do I convince the other REPUTABLE local tree company guys that I'm not a hack, and I want to do the best job possible.
4. There are very knowledgeable people on here about tree deseases. Where do I go to learn about this? I have a college campus close to me that has a forestry program, but I'm not sure about the aborist side. Is that the best place to start? or is there another place?
Sorry for being so long, I have more questions, but I'll wait to save space.
Thanks for all your help.
Onelick


----------



## Stumper (Dec 22, 2005)

Dan gave you such a good answer that there really isn't much to add. So I''ll just take the opportunity to say Welcome! Study. Learn. Be safe. Make excellence your habit.


----------



## fmueller (Dec 22, 2005)

You can probably get what you need to know for your area about insects and disease from the University Forestry extension offfice. It may save you some time and money instead of taking their classes. ACRT also offers classes for climbing which are cheaper than the Arbormaster. They'll have you in a tree the 1st afternoon your there.


----------



## Onelick (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks for all your help, 
Should I take the Arbormaster classes first, and then apply for a parttime job somewhere? or get the job first, and then go to Arbormaster, or another climbing school? I think I'm going to be better off working for someone first for awhile rather than starting a business from scratch.


----------



## Redbull (Dec 29, 2005)

If you can afford to work for a reputable company for a while, do it. I wish I could go back and do that now, but it's too late. There's nothing like real world experience for training. Be picky about your employer though. Look for someone who has the same ideals as you and stays up to date on current practices.


----------



## PTS (Dec 29, 2005)

I'll second Dan. All great advise. I would also say go for the full tree service. A few reasons..... 1. Tax benefits, you can right off all of your gear, study information that is purchased gas, part of your home for the office, phone, Internet, the list goes on and on. 2. Experience running the company when you are slow. It will give you time to grow as the owner. You will think about things that you haven't even considered and it will give you time to take care of those things before you have all the adds in the phone book and newspaper as you will probably be working only by word of mouth. You will find it easy as a public servant to get jobs. You will probably find yourself helping co-workers, friends and neighbors. Very shortly after that it will be their friends. You will be making some money and will make the first big purchase and then hold on cause your business will take off. 3. Purchase discounts. I got a $1000 off my new truck with my Federal Tax ID Number (EIN) on a rebate program, before becoming a dealer myself I use to get discounted rates on saws and other equipment because of quantity they anticipated in the future. 

As for the opinion of the about the hacks. You hit the nail on the head when you said that many were once and now large enough to complain about what they once were. I was a pick-up guy. But you know that is one of the great things about the USA. The ability to start your own business and start it from scratch. Learn lots forget the flame throwing because in a very short time the flame throwers will have forgotten and will treat you as one of their own. I guess I think a part of that is the frustration of the competition in their own personal areas and has nothing to do with another sharing in the same interest. I get frustrated of the different companies around here who badmouth the other companies to the public. If their work was good they wouldn't feel the need to try to further there business by badmouthing the competitor, the work would sell itself.


----------



## skwerl (Dec 29, 2005)

Redbull makes an excellent point. Almost all tree companies are constantly short handed, due to the nature of the work and the typical types who apply. If you're clean cut, honest, punctual and willing to work, then you can pretty much pick your employer. Find the company that represents who you want to be.


----------



## Redbull (Dec 29, 2005)

Onelick, please don't take my post as a discouragement (is that a word?) to starting your own business. I personally think it's the only way to go. I was referring to how you are going to learn the trade. Good luck and don't let the naysayers get you down. I agree with everyone above. You are in the position to start your business low and slow, with a lot less risk than going out and getting a business loan and risking everything.


----------



## Onelick (Dec 29, 2005)

At the risk of sounding like I'm tooting my own horn, I am clean cut. Due to my other full time job, I have to be. I am/will be punctual because I WANT to be there not because I HAVE to be there. I have 23 years exp in the fire service on a high angle rescue team so I'm not a rookie when it comes to ropes and knots. I already have the tree climber's companion and I'm trying to take some of those knots and techniques over to the fire service. I work on a ladder truck, and for years I've been asking our bosses,"what are we going to do if we get a tree climber hurt where we can't get our truck?" the answer is always," I don't know." So I'm trying to learn all I can, and do what I love to do.thanks for all your help.


----------



## Redbull (Dec 29, 2005)

Man, I hope that's not the response our fire dept. has if I get stuck in a tree.


----------



## Onelick (Dec 29, 2005)

Redbull, I think I have nothing but time on my side. I can do both, work for someone partime for a year or two and then start my business. After learning everything, soaking it up like a sponge. Like PTS said, I'm not going to be advertising, might not even have a name on the side of the truck, just word of mouth. I want to work when I want to work and play with the kids when I want to.


----------



## Onelick (Dec 29, 2005)

It probably is, you should check...


----------



## Onelick (Dec 29, 2005)

Red, they would love to have someonelike yourself to come in and teach a one day class on rescueing a tree climber.


----------



## Fireaxman (Dec 29, 2005)

Onelick - have you checked out the price of insurance for professional tree climbers? Please do, before you start a business. One of the local guys fell out of a tree just before Katrina. Good climber, but reputation for speed. Word is he missed his D ring with the flip line hook. Probably heard it click and thought it was in. Turned his navel to the noon sun. Wife. New baby. New house. No insurance. Crippled for life.


----------



## Onelick (Dec 29, 2005)

That's one of the things I am going to check on. We have a guy at work that used to be an insurance salesman, and one that is a cpa, no lawyers yet though. thanks for the heads up though.


----------



## Redbull (Dec 29, 2005)

Good luck to ya man. Sounds like you got what it takes. I'm gonna check into my local fire dept about tree rescue. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## PTS (Dec 29, 2005)

I asked one of my friends on the fire dept. what they would do if a kid was stuck up in a tree in a place they couldn't get to. His response was call me. Thats scary They have some that have went through rope rescue school but are way out of practice. They use my bucket truck with the jib to hook a hose and use it as an aerial cannon when needed.


----------



## Redbull (Dec 29, 2005)

That is scary. Is Manchester, Iowa that small of a town.


----------



## xtremetrees (Dec 30, 2005)

Yes friend it happens.
This year I sent a friend a Christmas card and some pictures of climbing. 
He will post them to his wall and wonder as he feeds himself in the nursing home. The last thing he told me was "The ground wont move."


----------



## Redbull (Dec 30, 2005)

Huh?


----------



## PTS (Dec 30, 2005)

Redbull said:


> That is scary. Is Manchester, Iowa that small of a town.




5600 people


----------



## Redbull (Dec 30, 2005)

Bigger than where I grew up 3000 people, but still small. I think I'd be SOL if I got stuck in a tree. Especially since I work alone a lot, which is a bad idea to begin with.


----------



## PTS (Dec 30, 2005)

Have to agree with you there.


----------



## Onelick (Dec 30, 2005)

PTS, I'm going to work tomorrow to look up how much weight and stress is being put on your truck. I don't like that idea, If you figure at a minimum of 500 gals per min flowing through that hose with water weighing 8.8 lbs per gal. plus the nozzle reaction of the water exiting the nozzle, that's alot of weight.


----------



## PTS (Dec 30, 2005)

My truck is a utility truck used for setting big transformers the lifting weight on my boom is 1200-1800 pounds depending on the angle I am at. Although many will say it is a bad idea we use our jib to hook limbs and chunks of tree, cut them free swing over to a safe location and lower them down. I have spoke with a boom specialist and asked him to join us on a removal where this was being preformed. He said that the way we do it is fine for our truck. It is made to withstand the amount of weight we are putting on it. I have to be carefully not to over load it but cutting off more than I can chew. I generally don't hook more than two guys can carry.


----------



## oldugly (Apr 6, 2006)

*Thank you, Onelick*

Hey, just wanted to say thanks. I read your thread and imediately talked to a friend of mine who is in the volunteer fire department in our area. (We talk alot, being he is another tree guy). He however is not a climber, and agreed that they would not know how to begin to rescue a climber stuck in a tree. I volunteered to show some basics on rope rescue to him and a couple of his buddies there, although I am not qualified to give an in depth course...at least I can show them the basics. 

I hope this doesn't sound like I am something special, but I think it would be a good idea if those who read this would do something similar. I volunteered my services...not because of the local guys around here, (most of them already have a backup, and we all have eachother's numbers if we get in trouble)....but we have a lot of out of towners, and fly by nights come through this area. Although I somewhat resent them, (most of them are low-bidding hacks) still it would go without even questioning that if they were in need I would help.

Also there is the hapless do-it-yourselfer/ homeowner. 

I would have never even thought of that situation without your comments here. 

Again, Onelick...thank you sir.


----------



## Onelick (Apr 15, 2006)

*The thanks go to you, my friend*

Old,
The real thanks go to you for donating your time and effort to help your fellow man. Like your friend I have over 20 years of rope/verticle rescue under my belt and just got my Instructor certification. But I had no clue as to how to begin to rescue a climber. After hanging around on this site, I now have a small amount of knowledge on which rope is doing what. I'm still trying to get hired on parttime with a company, but the ones that I have asked don't want a parttime worker. They all told me that if I could work full time, then they would hire me on the spot. I would like to get some experience with a tree company, then help develop a training course for our State University fire training academy. This past fall we needed the help of a tree climber when a hang glider crashed and was stuck in a tree. Thankfully the person was not hurt, just scared to be hung up in a tree. (funny, they weren't scared to jump off a 300 ft cliff, but they were scared to be 30 feet up a tree!!)
I would like to ask everyone out there to stop in at your local Fire Department and offer your professional services.
Thank you.


----------



## soutz (Oct 30, 2006)

Yep the rule here is to look after yourself.This is a good rule for equipment purchasing ,took me bout 8 years to learn it. 2nd hand gear comes from cashflow, new gear ie. chippers etc you must have at least 25% deposit.this keeps the bank managers off your back and doesnt kill cashflow. As far as climbing never assume. check your gear before every climb. Video your practise climbs and ask a good work climber to assess. Learn as much as you can ,i mean eat it up. Passion for the work you do is the key cause it sure isnt easy. Try working for other companies part time as a groundy. Good groundies make wicked work climbers,this will help you learn to structure your jobs. Ask questions, reflect often.Bit long winded but hope that helps. 

Climb Safe and enjoy the view.


----------

