# Burn times in various OWB's



## ngzcaz (Dec 6, 2008)

If there already was a post like this..sorry. I thought it would be interesting to read what other guys with different OWB's are getting for reload times. I have a small Shaver 165, this morning it was 15 degrees and the fire lasted approx 12 hours with junk wood. In a couple of weeks ( maybe less at this temps ) when I deplete the junk I'll find out what the good stuff is capable of.. I have a small home to heat, approx 1400 sg ft upstairs and 250 sg ft downstairs in a TV room. Next year there will be more baseboard in the basement to be sure.

opcorn:


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## pinemartin (Dec 6, 2008)

Timberwolf 3500 20f deg out 10 hours on willow 12 hours on popular and pine 14 to 16 hours on hardwoods. these times are a reload time not when the fire is almost out. as temps go down so does the burn times, the shortest time in between loadings was 6 hours when it was -20 deg. PS the wife likes the Tstat set at 78


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## warlock1944 (Dec 6, 2008)

*burn time*

I have a heatmore and find that the wind more than the temp is the determining factor.

15 here with 20 mph winds and I can go about 10 hours on white oak. It also depends a lot on the bed of coals you have. More coals longer burn with all else the same.

Been doing this for 4 years now and I can tell you when it is 0 with 30 mph winds you need to load up 3 times a day. Same temp and no wind only twice.


Note we keep house at 72 to keep Mrs warm.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 6, 2008)

- 20 ?? ouch... must be really easy to go to sleep when its 20 below outside and 78 inside : - )

:greenchainsaw:


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## bowtechmadman (Dec 6, 2008)

Never had to fill more than twice a day no matter what temps/wind, as long as good seasoned wood.
Woodmaster 5500, heating about 3800sq. ft keeping it at 73.
I've packed her full, backed thermostats down to 65 and had it last 48 hours or more when away for weekends in 0 temps.


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## projectsho89 (Dec 6, 2008)

It's the energy efficiency of your house that's more critical than just the OWB or the firewood.

If you have a very energy-efficient building envelope, you'll consume proportionately less firewood than a same-sized building that is poorly insulated or has a larger air infiltration loss.

Steve


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## rx7145 (Dec 6, 2008)

Twice a day when burning real wood. I only put in enough wood to last untill the next time I will be loading it. I'm burning pallets now and get about 8-15hrs. 15 is pushing it hard but the water temp will be over 140. Also I work 12hr shifts so I can't put in more wood when I should. A big coal bed is your friend.


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## Chuck Diesel (Dec 6, 2008)

With temps of low 20's here, I throw in 8 pieces (7"x26")and that will last 12 to 14 hrs. depends on the coal base.


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## Mr Goodwrench (Dec 6, 2008)

*once per day*

My third year with my hardy H4 2000 sq ft basement 2000 sq foot first floor 1600 sq foot second floor two funaces t-stat 73 day 72 night I fill mine one time per day usually about 4:15 when I get home from work before it gets dark. nights when it gets down to zero all the wood will be gone, but always enough coals to get it started. temp goes up I have more wood left. house is only three years old though and I really went crazy on the insulation when I built it. 
PS all hardwood oak, hickory


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## HD-tech-NH (Dec 6, 2008)

So far twice a day. It only uses half the load tops. I could probably go a full day. We have programable thermostats and a small home that I've been slowly re insulating and updating windows.


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## porta mill (Dec 6, 2008)

*owb load times*

I have an empyr 450 my house it about 1,900 Sq ft house built in the late 70's and my dads is 1,200 one year old double wide both have forced hot air and plate exchangers for the domestic hot water. I get about 24 hours between loads mixed hard woods and pine. I think the owb is the best investment I have ever made


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## Butch(OH) (Dec 6, 2008)

4400 Woodmaster here and heating smallish home and work shop. Never have seen so cold that we HAD to put wood in more than twice a day. Coldest I remember was -10. This time of year if I had all Oak or similar grade wood I could almost go once a day when it stays above 20 or so. Actulay we have never "filled" it as we still cut our wood 20-24" so we have a lot of room up front even when filled in the rear. Burn time in my experince is close to the same with any decent quality OWB given equal parameters. Big variables are BTUS pulled from it, type if wood burned and of course how big the thing is to start with. Any of them will burn a long time if not delivering heat anywhere or if it is massively oversized for the load. I think one of the large Woodmasters with two doors would heat my place for two days on one filling but it looks to hold 1/2 a pick up load, LOL.


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## iCreek (Dec 6, 2008)

My second year with a Hardy H2 and stir it and add wood about every 12 hours, usually about 6:00am, and 6:00pm during the week. Weekends I burn more junk wood and don't check it until around 8:00am. I don't load it full unless it is really cold, teens to 20 during the day and single digits at night. I can always get 12 - 16 hour burns when using good oaks and hickory, might even throw in a solid piece of elm. House is 5 years old rancher, well insulated, stat set to 73. I love to see a good red bed of coals, easier to stir that way before adding more wood.


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## J.W Younger (Dec 7, 2008)

*Hardy*

One daily loading, more with temps in the teens and below Let burn down on weekends, scrape off build up with old hoe straitened out. some coals are recycled with scoop made of expanded wire welded to a piece of rebarb.


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## abohac (Dec 7, 2008)

*Load Times*

I heat my garage floor, basement floor, tiled floor areas and heat ex in two forced air furnaces (house is about 3300 sq ft). I have a 7 year old house that is insulated well. I have a Woodmaster 5500 that is 300 ft from my house. I usually fill twice, but could easily make it on once if I had to using oak or ash that's dry.


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## AIM (Dec 7, 2008)

I gotta make some changes in my garage. I put a new (much larger) xchanger in there and now it's about 8 hours max. I'll still have some coals after 10 -12 but for good heat 8 is about it. Prior to garage thing I went about 10 - 12.

BTW. My OWB is homemade.


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## czar800 (Dec 7, 2008)

One time a day with my CB 6048 Heating about 3600sq ft to 78 deg. I never have had to fill it all the way up.


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## Biker Dude (Dec 7, 2008)

This forum rocks! I was just thinking the very same thing this morning. I have a 20 year old Taylor T-450 with a 12 cu. ft. firebox, water temp set at 170F and I fill between 2-3 times a day. I have 1200 sq. ft. of in-floor in my drafty old farmhouse and temp is set at 73. I also have a Dodge truck radiator and box fan HX in my drafty old 30X40 shop and temp is set at 50 in there. By my calc, loading 3 times a day I burn through a cord in 3.5 days. At 2 times a day I would get 5 days out of a cord. From the sounds of others in this thread I would say my system is the least efficient. Maybe I should start saving up for a CB5036 or a Greenwood Aspen? On the flip side, $6K could buy a lot of insulation, windows and siding.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 7, 2008)

Probably better off insulating and see where you end up. Your useage could drop significantly.. by next year you might be able to buy a new or used one at much better prices than what most of us paid........or not : - )

:greenchainsaw:


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## milkie62 (Dec 15, 2008)

*Wood times a big farce*

I have the Central Boiler CL 40. They claim up to a 72 hr burn.They must mean at 70 degrees in the summer.Best I can do is about 12 hrs on a half -3/4 load and using poplar.To be honest have yet to use good seasoned hardwood in it and it is a 1993 model.I usually sell the good stuff and burn the junk stuff myself.May upgrade next year if anyone in Albany NY area is looking for a furnace.No leaks yet.


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## Johnny Ringo (Dec 15, 2008)

cb 6048 once a day. aspen will hold me over unless it gets below -10 with daytime highs in single digits. If its colder than that I have to throw in the good stuff. Haven't seen the -20 to -30 stuff yet. I don't think I'll get away with once a day then. 3600 sqare foot ranch


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## forcedintoit (Dec 15, 2008)

I am only heating 1200 square foot house and hot water but I must have a freak stove, my heatmor will go 24 hrs at least. The temps are in the teens havent had single digits yet but I am so happy with the stove, Heatmor is a great stove. What am I doing differently to get more burn times.


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## woodlumn (Dec 15, 2008)

Heatmor 100 CSS: I load once in the morning and once before bed. our house is a 1932 renovation and we still have not yet insulated the exterior walls or curtains, so there's plenty more tightening to go. we're also using the Heatmor to heat the water. the heating system is a between-joist radiant floor heat (thick wood floors, too). house has been comfy thus far, with some nights in the teens. last winter was good too, but we didn't have ceilings or trim/moulding and had some gaps in the floor so it was a little colder then!

love the furnace, though. burning all free wood this year...lots of poplar and pine, and a good amount of oak and other hard woods.


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## stdydub (Dec 15, 2008)

Hardy H-2 heating 3000 sq.ft. of a drafty house, twice daily when its cold, once when its not. so many factors though for load times... im burning all green oak for the last couple weeks, gotta say its doin real good in the hardy, better than i thought it would..


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## jcappe (Dec 15, 2008)

*Woodmaster 4400*

I load my Woodmaster 4400 twice a day, about twelve hours apart. I don't fill it all the way just enough to get 12 hrs. I'm heating a 4,000 sq house. When temps are somewhat mild 20-30 degrees it still has the bigger chunks intact and I can get by with only loading it once if I have too, this morning was right around 0 degrees I didn't have anything but red coals. Wind is my demon, I don't have anything to block my OWB from the wind and I can definately tell when it is really windy.


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## cleanburn (Dec 15, 2008)

I have a Heatmor as well. Size 400, I'm heating about 3600 square feet, 900 square feet to 55F (Garage) and the rest to about 78F and now its -10F outside  wind chill here is -40F today  

Still only fill it twice a day though using pine


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## NC4AB (Dec 15, 2008)

I load my Hardy H2 once a day, currently using beetle eaten pine (saving the hardwood for when it gets cold). I'm heating a very well insulated 2,000 sq house, the main load that I have right now is heating the domestic hot water.


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## KH-1958 (Dec 15, 2008)

I have a Woodmaster 4400 and I have been averaging 12 hours between fills, but I have not been filling the box completely full. In fact tonight it looks like I could go 18-24 hours when completely filled. I am happy with the wood usage and I am heating 2500 sq ft. We don't like it real warm but it is definately saving money. I am also burning ash exclusivley (it's free)


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## oneoldbanjo (Dec 16, 2008)

*Woodmaster 4400*

I tend the fire in the morning before I leave for work and at night before I go to bed. I never put in more wood than I need to get to the next session and so far this winter we are very mild. I have a 2,100 square foot house and 1,800 square foot garage and both are made out of styrofoam SIPS panels and it is very well insulated. When the weather in in the 30's to 40's I only need to put about a wheelbarrow of wood in twice a day. I have been burning lots of 36" long limbs and branches to clear out a pile and it burns up really quickly but makes a very thick bed of coals that burns for a long time. Larger wood seems to burn intact and does not make nearly as many coals. When I go away for a long time I pack as much 8" diameter wood in as I can get, and then pack as many small limbs and little pieces as I can fit in the OWB and then turn the heat down in the house to 55 and turn the garage heat off. I have been able to leave town on a Thursday morning and come back on Sunday and hot have to add any wood until Monday (4 days). For normal operation I could add enough wood to last 2 days if I packed the OWB each time - but I believe I get a cleaner burn and more efficient operation if I only put enough wood in to last 12 hours.


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## Laird (Dec 16, 2008)

Hawken 1100 here. Have 2500 sq ft. Keep the house at 72-74. DHW and garage heater to keep uninsulated garage at 45-50. I load every 12 hours and burn a real mix of wood. Burn time would certainly improve if I insulated my garage. I load it full every evening and somewhat less during the day. Always have a couple logs left and lots of coals.


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## beerman6 (Dec 16, 2008)

jcappe said:


> Wind is my demon, I don't have anything to block my OWB from the wind and I can definately tell when it is really windy.



yep,yesterday filled mine at 4am,when I got home at 6pm nothing but coals,still had good temps and had to add wood at 8:30.The wind was really bad yesterday.


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## Tracker83 (Dec 16, 2008)

I average 24 hours between fillups with my Pacific Western model 2. The first and last month of heating I can get away with 48 hour fillups. This is heating an 1800 sq.ft. house @73F, 900 sq.ft. garage @55F, and DHW.


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## fourapples (Dec 16, 2008)

I have a Heatsource1 mid sized OWB, heat an 1800 sq ft farmhouse, domestic water, and shop. Home insulation is above average. I put in a half load 2 times a day. An improvement in my second year was covered wood storage rack (6.5 cord capacity) with lighting that is close by. The lights give good back lighting much better than the glaring light on stove front for early morning and evening fills. I previously used 2 indoor free standing stoves for 25 years. Had a Craft Stove in home and Ohioan in the shop.


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## AIM (Dec 17, 2008)

How many posts will it take for people to get honest? We have gotten a few honest posts but in my opinion alot of bs about burn times. I'm new to this site but not new to OWB's. 2 days? 3? even 18 hours at 30 or so degrees. It just doesn't happen unless on the rare occasion your burning PERFECTLY seasoned locust or hickory. And then 24 hours is a stretch...
Locust won't even smolder that long unless you have a burn chamber the size of a cargo van.


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## porta mill (Dec 17, 2008)

*owb burn times*

Why would you think people are not honest about there burn times I don't think everyone is lieing about there burn time . I personally am heating a 1500 sq foot house and all my domestic hot water. and my dad's new double wide and his domestic hot water on two to three wheel barels of a mix of pine and hard wood some dry and alot of green wood and I know if I pushed it I could get 30 plus hours out of one fill


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## oneoldbanjo (Dec 17, 2008)

AIM:

I have been completely honest in my post. I only build small fires in my OWB to promote clean burning and as little wood use as possible and I rebuild the fire and rake the coals every 12-16 hours. Today I raked the coals and added wood at 6:00 AM, and tonight I have a meeting and will probably not be home until about 10:00. I have a good bed of coals on the left side of the firebox and about 7 limbs that are 36" long and 2-6" in diameter - that will keep my house, DHW and garage warm until I get home tonight. It is currently 31 degrees and we are expected to have a high of 35 today. I have posted a picture of the way I load my OWB for a 12 hour burn in 30 degree weather.

If I were to completely load up my Woodmaster 4400 with a mixture of seasoned wood in this kind of weather - I could probably get 2 full days of burning time (if I were to rake the coals and get them all burned up). I have found that when I load it full the coal bed gets really thick and there is lots of unburned energy laying in the bottom of the OWB. I therefore only put a small amount of wood in on one side and rake the coals to the other so they can both burn simultaneously. My wood stack that I am burning right now is comprised of limbs and I want to get it burned up before spring/summer arrives as I want my yard back. These limbs came from the power company clearing the right of way and although they are a little more work than the big rounds - they were free heat. They tend to burn quickly and then collapse and make a really thick coal bed - unlike the large rounds which tend to burn without dropping the coals until they get very small. I have found that by burning them on one side and exposing the coals on the other side I can reduce the amount of unburned coals trapped in the ash layer.

When I am traveling and want to really long burn in the OWB I will turn up the thermostat in the house and garage and build up the temperature in the house and garage before we leave. We will be leaving this Friday for a week and I will get the garage which is normally about 50 up to 65 degrees and I will get the house which is normally 68 up to the middle 70 degrees. Then when we leave I will turn all the heat off in the garage but leave the circulating pump running to keep the underground lines from freezing, and I will turn the Domestic Hot Water heater off, and I will turn the thermostat in the house down to 55 degrees. This will put no heat load on the OWB for at least a couple of days and the OWB will only be running to keep itself warm. I will choose rounds that are about 8" - 12" round and 36" long and very straight so that I can pack them very tightly in the OWB. When I have those loaded I will add all the small stuff that I can fit over/under/between the large rounds and get as much wood as I can into the OWB. When I load the OWB I try to make sure it is as warm as possible before I do the full load so that a lot of the wood is not wasted on warming the water up - but I do like it to burn atleast a partial cycle so that I know the wood is burning and the OWB will be able to operate in the smolder mode for a while. I will ask a neighbor to come over and tend my fire while I am gone.....but he should not have to add wood for several days.

Lastly - I have to attribute my potential long burn times on having a new house made out of SIPS panels. It is very well insulated and all the panels are caulked and taped when assembled so there are not drafts in the building. The performance R value of the walls is R-38 and the roof is R-50 as a result of the Stryofoam insulation and absence of numerous wood studs that can lose heat to the outside wall. When our house was under costruction and before we had the furnace in we had a 1,500 Watt heater in the basement and when it was 20 degrees outside it could keep the house at 50 degrees. If we turn the heat off we only lose about 4 degrees in a 12 hour period. When I get the heat up to 74 in the house and then turn the thermostat down to 55 we could potentially go for 57 hours before the house ever calls for heat from the OWB.

I know that most people with normal construction and normal insulation could never expect to get the kind of burn times and low wood use that I get. My wife and I built this house in an attempt be "green" and to thumb our noses at the utility companies - we do not want to give our retirement money to the big Utility Companies to finance sports stadiums and keep their executive yaughts well maintaned.


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## HEAVY FUEL (Dec 17, 2008)

:agree2:


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## pipe welder (Dec 17, 2008)

To AIM you ask for honesty, I will try the best I can but first know that what you read on her is just someone's opinion and ever situation is different. There seems to be a lot of fans of the OWB here. Every time I say something negative about them somebody is offended. Well here it is from my point of view, first I am 62 years old so I am different than someone 30 years old, from my point it is a tree eating monster with an insatiable appetite. It works me to death trying to feed it and I feel like I have become a slave to the machine. This past week has been cold and windy but I swear I have burned an honest cord of wood and yes I know how to measure a cord. Never in my life have I spent so much money for an appliance that I have been so disgusted and disappointed with. There is no way in h**l I am going to go through another winter with this OWB. I have not tried coal in it yet but I am going to. I simply refuse to cut 3 times as much wood as should be needed. Am presently shopping for an inside wood coal boiler and I will sell the monster for whatever I can get.


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## Dan-o (Dec 17, 2008)

*burn times*

I have a shaver 165, and heat a 2,400 Sq ft Farm house with 2 furnances powered by the OWB and our DHW.
Our house sits in the middle of 2 open fields, and the OWB sits in the open as well. I fill the OWB at 6 am and my wife gets home at 4:00 and throws on 3-4 logs and then i fill it again at 10pm. Using mostly junk wood, some maple and pine. We keep the house at 70-72*, the house isn't insulated that well, (working on that) so I average about 8-10 hours between loading when the wind is blowing and the temps are down.


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## AIM (Dec 17, 2008)

The word HONEST probably wasn't the best choice of words. I truly meant no offense to anyone.

I talked to ALOT of people before building my OWB about theirs and what their opinions etc was on the OWB that they have. The longest burn time that anybody claimed and stuck to was 24 hours while heating their house and that was ONE guy out of I'd bet 20 that I talked to.
A few of the people I talked to admitted to not even knowing how much wood they burned due to tossing in wood every time they walked by it. Everyone else was 2 to 3 loadings a day. Most were "heavy load in morning/ a few pieces mid day/ heavy load at night". I had a few wanna tell me the 24 hour thing but after a little coaxing I got em admit that it was during 40 plus degree weather. colder than that and it was 2 to 3 a day.

Kinda like smoking. You don't even realize how many cigs in a day unless ya really sit down and count.


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## Dan-o (Dec 17, 2008)

*40 degree burn times*

Last Sunday it was in the 40's and I put on 3- 6"round logs about 20" long on around 7 am and at 4pm they were still there and the water was up to 200* and then I didn't put anything else on till 10pm again 3 pieces, and the next morning the temps were dropping fast outisde it was in the high 20's and a good west wind blowing the logs were gone, the water temp was still 165*. So I can get alot longer hours with just a little bit warmer temps, but not 24 hour burn times. Maybe if my house had new windows and better insulation!


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## farmking (Dec 17, 2008)

Twice a day fill for me when temps are at there coldest. Load heavy at 5pm then about half a load at 7am. Thats keeping my old 2 story farm house at 72to 78 degrees and also heating the DHW.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 17, 2008)

This is basically to pipewelder.. well, you are right. They aren't for everyone. I like you am 62 closing in fast on 63 this month and there is a lot of work no doubt. Personally, the satisfaction I get from screwing some Arab out of another diamond studded vehicle is worth more to me than gold. As long as I have my health I'll continue the way I'm going. The feeling of independence sometimes cant be measured in dollars and cents. There will be a day I cant do it, and I reluctantly will turn to another heat source. 

I also enjoy the woods.. always have, I like the exercise and fresh air. It gives me a chance to think, to ponder, and to chuckle a bit in thinking I and others are turning back the clocks 150 to 200 years...... well enough already. Hope you are able to get what you want and will be happy with it. Thats really what its all about. 

:greenchainsaw:


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## Tracker83 (Dec 17, 2008)

AIM said:


> The word HONEST probably wasn't the best choice of words. I truly meant no offense to anyone.
> 
> I talked to ALOT of people before building my OWB about theirs and what their opinions etc was on the OWB that they have. The longest burn time that anybody claimed and stuck to was 24 hours while heating their house and that was ONE guy out of I'd bet 20 that I talked to.
> A few of the people I talked to admitted to not even knowing how much wood they burned due to tossing in wood every time they walked by it. Everyone else was 2 to 3 loadings a day. Most were "heavy load in morning/ a few pieces mid day/ heavy load at night". I had a few wanna tell me the 24 hour thing but after a little coaxing I got em admit that it was during 40 plus degree weather. colder than that and it was 2 to 3 a day.
> ...


Well, I can't speak for everybody, but I certainly am not forgetting how often I am filling the stove. I have a routine. Every night at 9:00PM I bundle up and head outside to fill'r up. At no point during the rest of the day am I anywhere near the vicinity of the stove. That's right now, not 40 deg weather (yesterday's high was 20F). Seeing as I am further north than you maybe I am the exception to the rule. I dunno. Sounds like you have talked to many more OWB owners than I have. But the HONEST truth is that I _easily_ burn 24 hours. In fact, this time of year I am gone almost every weekend deer hunting. I fill the stove chocked full of seasoned red oak at 7:00PM Friday night and I do not get back home until usually after 9 on Sunday evening. At that point the wood is pretty well gone, but the water is still hot and there are still glowing coals. That's 50+ hours.


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## Thechap (Dec 17, 2008)

*OWB burn times*

I have a Crown OWB heating my 2000 and something square foot home as well as my domestic hot water. I burn nothing but oak and can only get 14-16 hour burn times. But, thats with the thermostat set at 80 for the wife, and of course half the windows are open.


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## Tesen (Dec 17, 2008)

Thechap said:


> I have a Crown OWB heating my 2000 and something square foot home as well as my domestic hot water. I burn nothing but oak and can only get 14-16 hour burn times. But, thats with the thermostat set at 80 for the wife, and of course half the windows are open.



Windows open while heating the house during winter? Yup sounds like a woman 

Tes


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## beerman6 (Dec 17, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> To AIM you ask for honesty, I will try the best I can but first know that what you read on her is just someone's opinion and ever situation is different. There seems to be a lot of fans of the OWB here. Every time I say something negative about them somebody is offended. Well here it is from my point of view, first I am 62 years old so I am different than someone 30 years old, from my point it is a tree eating monster with an insatiable appetite. It works me to death trying to feed it and I feel like I have become a slave to the machine. This past week has been cold and windy but I swear I have burned an honest cord of wood and yes I know how to measure a cord. Never in my life have I spent so much money for an appliance that I have been so disgusted and disappointed with. There is no way in h**l I am going to go through another winter with this OWB. I have not tried coal in it yet but I am going to. I simply refuse to cut 3 times as much wood as should be needed. Am presently shopping for an inside wood coal boiler and I will sell the monster for whatever I can get.


:greenchainsaw: Why dont you tell us how you REALLY feel...


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## JC31 (Dec 17, 2008)

Been using my woodmaster 4400 since Oct. 1st. Im heating 2400 sf new house well insulated and dhw. I load the rear of the burner to the top with roughly 24 inch logs nothing but coals in the front half. I have only loaded once a day in the evening since installed with temps. now in the teens. I could easily load more wood if necessary. Cant see ever having to load more than once a day.I was burning poplar during warmer temps. and now am burning dead standing oak cut in Aug. I am very satisfied with my boiler.


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## bowtechmadman (Dec 17, 2008)

I religiously fill (5 - 7 chunks) twice a day...once in the morning on the way out to go to work...and again in the evening when i get home from work. Loading a 5500 Woodmaster heating nearly 4000sq. ft home at 73 and DHW.
I can go nearly 48 hours in sub 20 degree weather when i have to (away for the weekend). Stack her tight as can be and drop all thermostats to 60 degrees.
Why would anyone have the need to BS burn times? Yep I use alot of wood...each to their own.
Many variables to determine burn times, age/type of stove, how well insulated is the house/windows etc., wind affects, climate, length of run to house from boiler, type/quality of PEX, what type of heat in the home (forced air/water), type of wood, seasoned wood the list just goes on.


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## AIM (Dec 18, 2008)

bowtechmadman said:


> Why would anyone have the need to BS burn times?



It's a mystery to me as well.


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## pipe welder (Dec 18, 2008)

I don't get on here to bash the OWB or anybody that owns one. I to can get a 12 hr burn when its 40 out side, 7 or 8 hr when its below 20, but at WHAT COST, I can build big bonfire in my yard and still have hot coals after 8 hr all I have to do is dump a truck load of wood on it. I don't think people BS about the burn time on purpose, they just don,t tell the whole story. Prospective buyers read ads in magazines and go to the manufactures webb sites and believe they have found an end all for there heating problems. They spend 7000 to 13000 dollars only to find out they created a monster because they didn't know the hidden cost was a lot of work and time just to heat there home. I have the finances to buy something else and the ability to do the changes myself. Some do not. If I can keep just one person from buying something he or she will be forever sorry for then I have done a good thing.


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## Scootermsp (Dec 18, 2008)

*No two OWB are the same*

First of all, there is work involved with all aspects of using an OWB. Many variables come into play so I've had 72 hr burn times and 10 hr burn times as well. With my CB 5036 running at set point of 180F and weather in the teens I get on average 12+ hours. I don't heat my basement, I don't heat the room over the 3 car garage unless the kids are home from school. My first floor T-stat kicks back to 50F at 630PM and back to 69F at 7AM. I go out in the morning to feed the "dog" before the first floor calls for heat. I rake the coals around 4pm when I get home, if it's real cold I may add a couple pieces. After dinner I load it for the night. It works for me....I don't mind the work and there is a helluva lot of personal satisfation that MY hard work heats my home. I have taken 1600 gallons a year of fuel oil out of my budget and deprived some anti-American country of my petrodollars.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 18, 2008)

oneoldbanjo... like the sips. If I were to do it all over again thats the way to go. I remember during the oil embargo everyone was energy crazy and came up with all kinds of devices. One was to build a house out of rigid foam a foot or so thick. Supposedly able to heat a 9 by 12 room with the heat of a 100 watt light bulb. They put a car on the roof to show how strong it was... but then the oil companies allowed the ships to dock they had deliberately held offshore, oil was plentiful and everyone forgot about saving energy.

BTW.. I'm impressed you throw what seems to be 2 to 4 inch thick logs in there. Most guys would save them for the outdoor firepit. Can't beat that round firebox, puts the ashes where they belong. Just imagine some grates on the bottom and a flap door you could open and close at will to an ashbin underneath.


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## oneoldbanjo (Dec 18, 2008)

I think if your house/garage is not well insulated and drafty and you have huge heat bills before installing an OWB....then the OWB is going to be just as inneficient at heating your house as any other heating system.

I also believe that the design of the OWB is not very efficient - especially when I occasionally see a foot of flame coming out of my stack when I burn small/dry wood inside the OWB. Maybe the OWB works best when you have large rounds of wood that burn more slowly - but right now I have a huge pile of small limbs to burn up and I often see fire coming out of my 5 foot tall stack.

I think the next generation of OWB's will provide improvements over the current design. There needs to be a better heat exchanger system so that more of the energy is collected from the burning wood and not just sent out the stack. Perhaps a heat exchanger system that is in operation when the unit is actively burning and is bypassed when the OWB is in the smolder mode (in an effort to keepthe creosote from gumming it up). Perhaps some form of gassification that burns the wood in a oxgen starved chamber with a secondary burn occuring in a different chamber combined with a better heat exchanger system. Whatever the new technology provides I am sure it will be here by the time my current OWB wears out.

If I were buying wood I am sure the OWB would not be a reasonable solution for heating my house and garage. If I had to scout around for free wood and haul it home and stack for my OWB - I still may not find it as a viable alternative for energy. Currently the wood that falls down on my property provides plenty of wood to keep me in supply for years to come. I can get all the wood I need within a 1,000 feet of my OWB and the wood will need to be cleaned up and burned anyhow - either in a brush pile or in my OWB....it is part of the process of keeping my property maintained. I have about 12 acres of woods and there is always some tree dying, falling over or dropping a large limb.

I may be part of the reason that started the comments about being untruthful about my burn times - my house and garage are well insulated and easy to heat. Also on 3 occasions when I have been out of town I have gone as long as 4.5 days on a single loading when I have taken steps to conserve energy while I am away (see previous post). The floor slabs in my garage are concrete and have PEX tubing that supplies radiant heat and they are seperated from the ground and foundation by Styrofoam Insulation. If I get my garage up to 60 degrees before I leave and shut the system off I will probably only lose about 3-4 degrees a day in the garage. It takes a lot of heat to bring my 6" thick concrete slabs up to temperature.....and it takes a long time for them to cool down as well. My house is very well insulated and when I turn down the thermostat and pack my OWB tight it can go a long time before the wood is gone. So far this winter the temperatures have really not been below 30 for more than a day or two in a row and my wood consumption is very low.....I have been loading my OWB twice a day with about 7-8 pieces of 36" long limbs that are 2-4 inches in diameter. I have been burning about 3 months and I have used about 2 chords of limbs.

For me the OWB is not a wood hog.....mostly because I have a very well insulated house.


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## beerman6 (Dec 18, 2008)

Thats the thing,there are so many variables(said here many times)That most answers will be different.

Heating with a OWB is work,is it too much?I dont think so.


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## AIM (Dec 18, 2008)

oneoldbanjo said:


> I think if your house/garage is not well insulated and drafty and you have huge heat bills before installing an OWB....then the OWB is going to be just as inneficient at heating your house as any other heating system.
> 
> I also believe that the design of the OWB is not very efficient - especially when I occasionally see a foot of flame coming out of my stack when I burn small/dry wood inside the OWB. Maybe the OWB works best when you have large rounds of wood that burn more slowly - but right now I have a huge pile of small limbs to burn up and I often see fire coming out of my 5 foot tall stack.



100% agree with both comments. I KNOW that my POORLY insulated garage is a killer. I also know that my stack design on my home made OWB is a killer.
I don't have a pic of my stack going into my burn chamber but suffice it to say there are NO restrictions. I'll bet I have the cleanest, creosote free stack in the nation.
These 2 mods would probably dramatically increase burn times.


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## iCreek (Dec 21, 2008)

Got a 15 hour burn lastnight (stat on 73), 5 degrees outside, was in the 20s yesterday afternoon, dropped all day, and still only 11 degrees at noon today, Sunday. Yesterday I loaded the stove with some larger mixed 'not so' and 'well' seasoned oak around 5pm, went out this AM at 8:00am and has a few small peices of wood, lots of red coals. I did notice lots less ash with oak than when I use hickory... So I stirred it up, threw in some small 2" - 4" then some larger odd shaped stuff to get through the day. 

Was real happy because that is the coldest night we have had this season and I got 15 hours without craming the stove full. 





iCreek said:


> My second year with a Hardy H2 and stir it and add wood about every 12 hours, usually about 6:00am, and 6:00pm during the week. Weekends I burn more junk wood and don't check it until around 8:00am. I don't load it full unless it is really cold, teens to 20 during the day and single digits at night. I can always get 12 - 16 hour burns when using good oaks and hickory, might even throw in a solid piece of elm. House is 5 years old rancher, well insulated, stat set to 73. I love to see a good red bed of coals, easier to stir that way before adding more wood.


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## KH-1958 (Dec 21, 2008)

*Burn time*

I have been averaging about 12-18 hours burn time in my OWB. If we use a lot of hot water from the DHW convertor than I average 12 hours. (well water) Still keeping my set point at 170 and doing okay, even with temps averaging 5-15 degrees and the strong wind. One good point the wife does not like the house above 69 . So that may be why I get a longer burn time.


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## hydro2 (Dec 21, 2008)

I have a Hardy and I am heating a 3,300 sq. foot house and I also heat my mother's house. It is about 1,100 sq. feet. I load it pretty full in the morning. When I come home from work around 4, I stir it around. If it is a real cold day 0 to 15 degrees, I will throw in a couple of pieces to last until I feed it before bed. I go out around 10 pm and feed it filling it pretty full. There is usually wood left when I go out to fill it around 7 AM the next morning. 

On the weekends I fill it around 10 PM and sometimes don't put wood into it until around 1 or 2 the next day. I may go out and stir it around, but I don't have to add wood.


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## pipe welder (Dec 22, 2008)

I don't know maybe I got the only bad one this outfit ever built. Loaded all I could stuff in of white oak at 10:00 last night, so cold and windy here yesterday that I lit up my old Rhon inside stove and left it going when I went to bed, I knew it would only burn about 3hr but that would be 3hr of load off the OWB. now to the point, At 5:30 this morning OWB water temp 96 degrees, Induction fan off on low temp, fire out and wood all gone, house cold me cold. I lit the inside stove back up to warm up the house while I am waiting for the OWB to come back up after reload and refire. These OWB makers can kiss my butt, this will be my last winter with this piece of crap.


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## Tracker83 (Dec 22, 2008)

Once again, a 24 hour fillup with the nastiest weather of the season. I went from 9:00PM on Saturday 12/20 to 9:30PM on Sunday 12/21. During that span we had temperatures in the single digits, 35-45MPH winds, and even a blizzard warning.


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## bowtechmadman (Dec 22, 2008)

Pipe Welder sounds like you have a bum OWB or your losing a great amount of heat somewhere. 12 hrs w/ 5 or 6 chunks of ash (16" around and about 24" long) easily w/ mine.
Are your PEX water lines insulated?


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## modn (Dec 22, 2008)

This is my 4th night with my boiler (Cozeburn 250) 2000 sqft, 95' away, temp at 73 degrees. I check it every 12 hours and today was the 1st day I had just a little bit of wood left with very hot coals. This was due to the fact that I have been dropping back on the amount of wood I put into it when I fill it (down to 3 12"-14" rounds of maple/birch/pine). I'm content in loading it every 12 hours so I have no idea how far I could take it but I think I'm getting a handle on it.


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## rx7145 (Dec 22, 2008)

bowtechmadman said:


> Pipe Welder sounds like you have a bum OWB or your losing a great amount of heat somewhere. 12 hrs w/ 5 or 6 chunks of ash (16" around and about 24" long) easily w/ mine.
> Are your PEX water lines insulated?



I does sound like you are losing a lot of heat. Can you tell us more about your house and your OWB install.


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## pipe welder (Dec 23, 2008)

To tell you the truth I'm tired of complaining about the stupid thing myself. The fact remains it has to be the boiler. The house does not heat that hard, one old wood stove inside does the job easily. The rest of the system works just fine with a 164000 btu propane boiler, or the old inside wood boiler I bought off a local farmer for 200 bucks. My only complaint with it was short burn times which means middle of the night loadings. The stove is only 10 ft from the house and I have no under ground pipe, also have no pex I'm a pipe fitter so I use real pipe and yes it is insulated. Nothing has changed with the house since the OWB install. It seems like it struggles just to heat itself even when there is very little load on it. I ran the inside stove all day yesterday so the OWB had very little heat load and I still used a whole load of wood just to get the temp back up. Had to put more wood in about 4:00 yesterday evening to keep the fire going and then I loaded Ii again at 10:00 before bed. I guess what I'm saying is it burns a ton of wood even if it has no heating load. This OWB is the only thing that has changed in my heating system so it has to be the culprit.


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## AIM (Dec 23, 2008)

Sounds as though something is amiss with your setup "pipewelder".
They for sure eat alot of wood but keeping up with heat demands usually is easy as long as a fire is going.
I'm scratchin my head a bit here. White oak is absolutely GREAT stuff. 
You should at least get an overnight burn
What water temp are you shootin for? When I experimented with turning mine up to 170 degrees my wood consumption doubled if not more and didn't do me any better than the 130 I usually run. Just hotter heat thru the registers.


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## coostv (Dec 23, 2008)

I suppose my usages and loading times mirror some of the posts I read.

I load mine twice a day. I usually load it first thing in the morning (between 6 and 8) with around 4-5 pieces of split 24" long pieces of various dimensions and do the same around 6PM.

My house is 1900-2000 sq ft and 10 years old insulated very well. I also heat a 960 sq ft shop which is insulated pretty well with r13 in the walls and around r25 in the ceiling. I only run the heat in the shop when I am in it (which lately has been a lot since I lost my job). I painted a truck the other day and had to load it a third time on my way into the house (my spray booth/third stall is ducted to the furnace plenum with the extraction fan pulling heat in).

I think many things make differences in how much wood we use. Boiler location, is it in the wind or sheltered? Boiler construction (a big one IMHO) Pex insulation and depth buried. Temp the house or shop is kept at. Setback thermostat or none (after all, who cares about heat when no one is around).


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## ngzcaz (Dec 24, 2008)

12 hr burn times sound about right heating 2,000 sq ft and occasionally another 960 sq ft. I'd be well satisfied in your shoes. I'm heating about 1500 sq ft w/ the same 12 hr burn times ( except when it was in the single digits, threw a piece or 2 in after 6 to 8 hrs until the big fill at night. ) As you and many others probably have read this is on junk pine. New Years marks the start of the goo stuff....

Are you running your shop pump 24/7 or do you have anti-freeze in it ? I'd like to do the same thing but hesitated running it out until it was too late this year.
I'll have a slightly smaller area ( 768 sq ft ) but only insulation ( R-19 ) in the ceiling, nothing but concrete block for the rest. An old oil furnace from a mobile home ( about 50,000 btu ) gets it to about 60 degrees in cold weather. 

:greenchainsaw:


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## coostv (Dec 24, 2008)

ngzcaz said:


> Are you running your shop pump 24/7 or do you have anti-freeze in it ? I'd like to do the same thing but hesitated running it out until it was too late this year.
> I'll have a slightly smaller area ( 768 sq ft ) but only insulation ( R-19 ) in the ceiling, nothing but concrete block for the rest. An old oil furnace from a mobile home ( about 50,000 btu ) gets it to about 60 degrees in cold weather.
> 
> :greenchainsaw:



I run the pump to the shop 24/7 as I just use water and I shut my furnace off when I do not need it. I also cut a slot in the plenum above the heat exchanger so I can slide a piece of OSB in to keep the heat in the exchanger when not in use.

I can maintain just about any temp I want to keep. I usually stay between 65 to 70 depending on how cold I feel.


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## modn (Dec 24, 2008)

I loaded the boiler yesterday @6:00pm and when I went to load it @6:00am this morning I found I had a good bit of wood left. I decided to see what it would do as I haven't had it for a week yet. I arrived home at 5:30pm and found the temp to still be in the operating range @175 degrees and a little bit of wood left in it yet. We reached about 30 degrees today so it wasn' the norm, but then again I'm still impressed by it.


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## KH-1958 (Dec 24, 2008)

Even with this last cold spell and wind I am averaging 15-18 hours between fillups, of course if we are home and the DHW is being used then it seems to be 12-15 hours. I have no complaints, I am glad it is not 8 hours!


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## pipe welder (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm happy for you guys that are getting these long burn times,wish it were me. Last night was no exception the woodmaster laid down on me again, guess I should expect it by now. Loaded at 10:00 last night and water temp down to 122 this morning and fire all but out at 5:30 AM. Had to build a fire in the inside stove to warm up the house. It,s burning now but I still have fire inside to carry the load. I wish it were different but when a 200 buck used piece of junk puts a 6000 dollar machine to shame then I got an issue with woodmaster, there is no way I could recommend this piece of crap to anyone, but I,ll make you a heck of a deal on one slightly used woodmaster 4400.


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## Scootermsp (Dec 26, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> I'm happy for you guys that are getting these long burn times,wish it were me. Last night was no exception the woodmaster laid down on me again, guess I should expect it by now. Loaded at 10:00 last night and water temp down to 122 this morning and fire all but out at 5:30 AM. Had to build a fire in the inside stove to warm up the house. It,s burning now but I still have fire inside to carry the load. I wish it were different but when a 200 buck used piece of junk puts a 6000 dollar machine to shame then I got an issue with woodmaster, there is no way I could recommend this piece of crap to anyone, but I,ll make you a heck of a deal on one slightly used woodmaster 4400.



Do you have a thermometer where the supply enters the house? If not check to see that you are not losing all your heat underground via wet pipes. All those BTUs are going somewhere...before writing off your OWB have a dealer or a very experienced Woodmaster owner come on site to try for a solution...something is very wrong! These things do better than you are describing and you deserve to get what you paid for. It could be something simple.....I have a CB so I'd be little help....best of luck sir.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 26, 2008)

I checked out the specs for the 4400 Woodmaster and the only thing I see thats a potential problem is the relatively small ( 112 gallons ) water reservoir. For your water temp to be 122 degrees in the morning means that sucker went out WAY before you checked it...assuming of course, you had it at least to 160 degrees as your stat setting. If its set at 180 its even harder to understand. Even pine ( what I'm presently burning ) should give 10 to 12 hrs in 30 degree temps and 8 to 10 hrs in 15 degree weather, assuming of course the unit is properly sized for the home size/insulation,etc etc. 

Since the OWB is only 10 feet from your residence its unlikely its losing heat that much thru the pipes. The only possible reason is that your draft motor ( assuming you have one ) is constantly running but then it should be overheating your stat setting. Did you check during the day to make sure it wasn't too hot ? One thing I did notice was the whopping 164,000 btu propane heating unit. If your place requires that many btu's, then your present set up may well be too small.

Finally, the size of the metal pipe you ran should be 1 inch ID not OD. Wouldn't make that much a difference but it certainly wouldn't help. Kinda surprised you ran metal since water and metal dont get alone that well after a long period of time except for black pipe which is a little more forgiving compared to galvanized. And I wouldn't have run galvanized under any circumstances.. Hope you get her squared away. As mentioned, a dealer should be concerned about the rep of the unit they are selling.


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## November Wolf (Dec 26, 2008)

ngzcaz said:


> I checked out the specs for the 4400 Woodmaster and the only thing I see thats a potential problem is the relatively small ( 112 gallons ) water reservoir. For your water temp to be 122 degrees in the morning means that sucker went out WAY before you checked it...assuming of course, you had it at least to 160 degrees as your stat setting. If its set at 180 its even harder to understand. Even pine ( what I'm presently burning ) should give 10 to 12 hrs in 30 degree temps and 8 to 10 hrs in 15 degree weather, assuming of course the unit is properly sized for the home size/insulation,etc etc.
> 
> Since the OWB is only 10 feet from your residence its unlikely its losing heat that much thru the pipes. The only possible reason is that your draft motor ( assuming you have one ) is constantly running but then it should be overheating your stat setting. Did you check during the day to make sure it wasn't too hot ? One thing I did notice was the whopping 164,000 btu propane heating unit. If your place requires that many btu's, then your present set up may well be too small.
> 
> Finally, the size of the metal pipe you ran should be 1 inch ID not OD. Wouldn't make that much a difference but it certainly wouldn't help. Kinda surprised you ran metal since water and metal dont get alone that well after a long period of time except for black pipe which is a little more forgiving compared to galvanized. And I wouldn't have run galvanized under any circumstances.. Hope you get her squared away. As mentioned, a dealer should be concerned about the rep of the unit they are selling.



Why would you not use galvanized piping? I have noticed on my unit and most others that all the nipples and fittings on these boilers are black pipe (some brass) and not galvanized. I always thought black pipe is for gas piping and galvanized is for water because black pipe will rust.

Anyways I know a couple people that have Woodmaster 4400's and they are very happy with them. One guy heats 3600 sq ft and loads once a day and the other guy fully loads his at 6pm and adds a couple logs at 6am. 

I was going to buy one of these units but the dealer in lake city apparently was to busy to give me a quote so I went with a CB.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 26, 2008)

The galvanized pipe ( 8 inch ) which I used to go out of my indoor wood stove corroded in short order. The black pipe lasted for years ( 5 and counting )
and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again. I have a black pipe for the pop off relief valve for the oil burner which the plumbers used, not galvanized. To use any kind of metal pipe underground is not what I would do, especially since pex is cheap, durable and rustproof not to mention freeze resistant much more than galvanized.. but to each his own. What we are trying to figure out is the excessive wood usage. 

To the point of discussion, the Woodmaster shouldn't be much different than most of the OWB's. None are particularly efficient, but the mass of water, insulation, and amount of wood adds up to what most guys are experiencing for burn times. Any great variation bears further investigation. 

:greenchainsaw:


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## pipe welder (Dec 26, 2008)

Don't know what happened to my earlier post,never made it here but I'm having computer problems. At this point in time one has got to know when to throw in the towel, no use in flogging a dead horse. I have an energy king dealer within driving distance so I am going over to check them out. Maybe I expected to much from the OWB. Don't mind the work but I want something for my labor and this unit is not performing to my standards, so time to move on.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 26, 2008)

Sorry to hear that pipewelder.. if anything changes please post it so it can be shared with others, there's a wealth of knowledge available and the nice part is, most of it is first hand, real hands on experience, not something untested out of a book. 


:greenchainsaw:


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## modn (Dec 26, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> Don't know what happened to my earlier post,never made it here but I'm having computer problems. At this point in time one has got to know when to throw in the towel, no use in flogging a dead horse. I have an energy king dealer within driving distance so I am going over to check them out. Maybe I expected to much from the OWB. Don't mind the work but I want something for my labor and this unit is not performing to my standards, so time to move on.



There is more than enough information from very qualified people here to make a qualified reason to why your not getting the most or even some out of your heater. When you have burning times as you claim, then it sure isn't rocket science to figure out what is wrong as all the bases have been covered. It sounds like you are asking what is wrong all the time and then everyone gets the same old answer of "I just hate it and it isn't what I expected" or somewhere close to that. Just put it in the paper and get rid of it. I'm sure someone will be more than happy to buy it and put it to good use. You claimed the $200 used inside woodboiler is outperforming it (or something like that). Well, there is your answer. Maybe even put another one in......again, get rid of the POS you claim you have and move on, simple as that.


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## AIM (Dec 26, 2008)

If the price is right I might be interested. I am planning on building one for my daughter and son in law next year but I'd entertain the idea of just buying one.

[email protected]


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## pipe welder (Dec 26, 2008)

Modn try reading the post again , I have explained things no less than 3 times. I never said a 200 dollar inside wood stove, I said a 200 dollar inside wood BOILER, and if you must know the brand is deep wood. And I am not whining , I am stating facts, if you don't like the facts or you don't believe them there is nothing that can be said. I state things as they pertain to me not someone else. If you had read all my post I told every one before if you think its the best thing going then more power to you. But know this I will state my opinion as I see it if you chose not to believe me so be it. I think the thing is an over priced under engineered piece of crap. I am tired of fighting with something that should not have been a fight. I ain't asking nobody for nothing, just stating my opinion. Like I said earlier, no use in flogging a dead horse.


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## modn (Dec 26, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> Modn try reading the post again , I have explained things no less than 3 times. I never said a 200 dollar inside wood stove, I said a 200 dollar inside wood BOILER, and if you must know the brand is deep wood. And I am not whining , I am stating facts, if you don't like the facts or you don't believe them there is nothing that can be said. I state things as they pertain to me not someone else. If you had read all my post I told every one before if you think its the best thing going then more power to you. But know this I will state my opinion as I see it if you chose not to believe me so be it. I think the thing is an over priced under engineered piece of crap. I am tired of fighting with something that should not have been a fight. I ain't asking nobody for nothing, just stating my opinion. Like I said earlier, no use in flogging a dead horse.



Your absolutely right, I agree 100%......Sell it!!


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## KH-1958 (Dec 26, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> Modn try reading the post again , I have explained things no less than 3 times. I never said a 200 dollar inside wood stove, I said a 200 dollar inside wood BOILER, and if you must know the brand is deep wood. And I am not whining , I am stating facts, if you don't like the facts or you don't believe them there is nothing that can be said. I state things as they pertain to me not someone else. If you had read all my post I told every one before if you think its the best thing going then more power to you. But know this I will state my opinion as I see it if you chose not to believe me so be it. I think the thing is an over priced under engineered piece of crap. I am tired of fighting with something that should not have been a fight. I ain't asking nobody for nothing, just stating my opinion. Like I said earlier, no use in flogging a dead horse.



If it is giving you more trouble than I would get rid of it. SOmetimes you cut your losses and move on.


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## Slick (Dec 27, 2008)

Anyone else notice pipewelder just wants to complain and has dodged a bunch of questions about how the unit is installed...guess it's easier to blame the unit than your own install...
It's not rocket science...if it's burning through that much wood those BTUs are going somewhere...plenty of other woodmaster owners manage to get those btu's to their house as heat...so we know it's not going up the stack, which means what? To me it means there is a huge heat loss somewhere and that's not the units fault....


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## rx7145 (Dec 27, 2008)

Slick said:


> Anyone else notice pipewelder just wants to complain and has dodged a bunch of questions about how the unit is installed?




I have...


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## ngzcaz (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, here's a question. How many of you have installed metal pipe from the OWB to your residence ? How many have a 164,000 btu propane heater that heats the home ? ( I may have misunderstood, but thats what it sounded like )
and more importantly, who needs that many BTU's ? If he's on the level, I would like to help him out, but as stated this is not rocket science.. the heat is going somewhere.... there was a member expressing interest in his unit.. It would be interesting if he contacts him, looks at it, buys it and then has different results ??

And..........here in NE Pa. temps in the low 30's yesterday and last night, still wood left from last night ( slightly over 12 hrs w/ a mix of 50/50 junk and better stuff ) Warmer today so maybe only two 10 or 12 inchers tonight )
This I can handle ...........


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## pipe welder (Dec 27, 2008)

Man some of these guys got a head like a concrete block. I have answered every question ask of me. NO I did not state how many inches of insulation and I did not state brand of windows. But read my lips here its the same as it was with the other units, nothing else has changed but the BOILER so it becomes a mute point. I also didn't tell you how tall I am or how much I weigh because its not relevant. The house is old ,still the same house, I,m old, still the same me. People get on here and bash this shaver guy all over the board and nobody says a word but I express my distaste for woodmaster and they act like I am desecrating a shrine. Other than a few MINOR difference's they are the same thing. It seems I can't have an opinion if it doesn't agree with theirs. And I ain't dodging anyone's questions if they are relevant to the situation. I didn't ask for any help but I refuse to be belittled for stating my opinion just because it doesn't agree with someone else.


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## urhstry (Dec 27, 2008)

ok, so back to Slick's question.... explain how the unit is installed....


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## modn (Dec 27, 2008)

urhstry said:


> ok, so back to Slick's question.... explain how the unit is installed....



And I guess I'll bite.....how many gallons of propane did you use per month BEFORE the OWB was installed? Basically how many gallons did you use per season? 164,000 BTU is sizeable. Does the boiler smolder ever or is it burning all the time? Do you have a leak in the door or ash pan (does it have one?) Are your pipes properly insulated? What kind of an exchange is made in the house? Do you have a plate exchanger to connect to your exisiting boiler or is it connected to a plenum for water to air exchange? What modifications did you make to your wood boiler, if any? Is it a natural draft or forced draft? What size square footage is your house? Old or new (what year was it built?)

My take or guess: You have an old house with old windows and poor insulation and it cost you a fortune before to heat with propane. If that is the case you will burn a lot of wood regardless of what boiler you put in.

------OR------

You have a genuine POS.....time to sell.


Answer the questions above and I guarantee someone, or collectively all, will have an answer for you. Nobody wants to see someone unhappy, but you have to quite b*tching, answer questions, follow advice, and report results. There isn't a person on here that isn't willing to help as long as they are trying to help themselves also.


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## AIM (Dec 27, 2008)

I know a guy that put his exchanger in the return side of his forced air thinking that it wouldn't interfere with his AC coil that way. Installed it in the summer and by the time it came to using it he couldn't get enough heat to save his arse.
Ended up the exchanger was all but completely wooled over with dust do to being prior to the filter. He went ahead and switched to the out going side and the thing cranked out the heat as expected.
Sometimes it might just be a crazy little thing like that.


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## pipe welder (Dec 27, 2008)

Ok we will start from scratch here. I like a good spirited discussion as long as we don't draw any blood. First my history, I am a retired pipefitter and professional welder I even have a boiler stamp which means that I am certified to weld on high pressure boiler systems. I was fabrication shop foreman for the last 15 years of my 38 years in the piping and HVAC industry. I don't think they kept me in that position all those years because I don't know anything about pipe, had I not retired I would still have the job. Now on to every thing else, I had to laugh about the metal pipe thing, how does this guy think all these multistory buildings are heated and cooled. A pipe is the conduit for the transmission of fluids whether it be steel,copper,plastic or whatever. Why did I use steel ? I have a pipe machine, dies ,wrenches,pipe vice and every thing I need to do a professional job and I know enough people to get the material for nothing. why the 16400 btu boiler? It's over kill, in 1984 I was working out of town and could only get home on weekends. I had on old boiler way past its prime 9200 btu if I remember correctly. I sent my dad to the supply house to get me a new boiler and told him to make sure it was big enough. Had small kids and wife home alone all week. The boiler he bought is a Burnham and it a good one it was a display floor model and dad got a killer price, thats the reason for this size. The house heating system is hot water through cast iron radiators each one has its own balancing valve so every room in the house is the same temp. If there are any HVAC guys on here they can tell you this is about as good as it gets. The house has its own pump its a thrush and it kicks butt its top notch. I have a60 plate water to water heat exchanger from the wood to the gas system, 190000 btu I think. I measured the pipe and there is 62 feet of 1 inch pipe out to the wood boiler 50 feet of which is inside an attached garage which is insulated but not real well. The 12 feet of pipe out side is up on blocks and is insulated. All but 8 feet of the inside is insulated, the last 8 feet is next to my domestic water from the well and this way there is no way I can freeze the well water line. The boiler pump is a TACO 0013 and it is new. Nothing special about the house but its the same as it was 40 years ago. Sure it could stand an up grade but this variable remains the same. As for the gallons of propane a year, when all I used was gas I wood burn around 1200 gallon a year but keep in that also includes a 50 gal water heater and a large 6 burner grill that we have always used year around, and a wife that can use more hot water than a group of teenagers.


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## pipe welder (Dec 27, 2008)

I ran out of space on the last post. So here is a good example. It was 58 degrees here last night, at 10:30 I put 7 logs in the OWB ranging in size from 8 to 10 inches in diameter and 24 to 30 inches in length. This was not a full load but it already had some in it and it was 58 out side. I didn't check it until about 9:00 this morning and there was just part of one round lefe and the boiler temp was 131, but now realize that it was 62 out side so there was hardly any heating load all night. We never set the house thermostat above 69 because neither one of us like a hot house. AS to where the btu's are going there is only one place. It has to be up the stack. The efficiency is just not there. I don't know how many typo's here probably a bunch.


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## Slick (Dec 27, 2008)

What kind of insulation on the pipes and how thick? 

I don't think metal pipes are an issue at all, it's a really expensive way to do it but if you had it and can fit it yourself go for it...but hopefully you realize we're all just curious because there are others on here with that same exact unit you have and their BTUs somehow get to the house...so please bear with us if we're a bit reluctant to believe they are magically going up the stack  If you had some kind of unit we've never seen or heard of...but like I said, that is a common unit and others manage to heat just fine with it...thus our questions 
So how about those insulation specs? 
Oh and do you have a y-strainer before the plate exchanger? 
How about air bleeders, where do you have them? 
Heating with baseboards?


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## ngzcaz (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, in the spirit of a good discussion here goes.. First I fully stand by my decision to use pex pipe underground.. I don't think you'd find too many people who would recommend steel whether they get it for free or not. Pex is really cheap and easy to work with and most importantly freeze resistant if need be. However, if you used one inch or above and insulated if ( curious to know with what and how much which is REALLY important ) ) that shouldn't be the culprit. And btw, multistory buildings all have their pipes inside, not outside. As one who has had steel pipes burst, its silly ( IMHO ) to even think they compare with modern day pex, but again, that's probably not the problem and your decision to live with when they close up on you..

I find it amazing to read your life's story and not find out what square footage your house is or how its insulated. How in the world did you figure out what unit to purchase ? You turned around and bought the second smallest woodmaster they had to offer ? Given your decision to go overboard as you put it, why wouldn't you do the same with the OWB ?

Its this simple ( IMHO ) you either have : too small a unit
an auto fill/pipe thats leaking
stat thats incorrect/boiling
even lousier wood than me
heat loss thru the pipes
draft blower not shutting off/or
not operating properly
( fill in the ones I missed )

Its not true that the boiler was the only thing changed, it was one of several components, most importantly is the fact you ran pipes outside and connected it to the owb and pump/ etc. That's the constant and the one to look at closely. I'd sure be interested in knowing what that water temp is when it comes out of your OWB and what it is when it comes in the house. Borrow an infrared unit and check it. Eliminate some possible causes. From what I read I didnt see too much that was checked out and eliminated.. Did you ever go out and listen to the draft motor if it shuts off after reaching temp ? Did you look at the chimney occasionally in a similar fashion. Its real easy to see if the draft motor is on by the smoke/updraft. 

Finally, its your unit but after spending thousands on it, I'd sure want to talk w/ a reputable dealer and it doesn't even have to be a woodmaster dealer. You seem to adamantly refuse to do so. These things for the most part are remarkably similar. A woodfire surrounded by water that's heated from the firebox with a chimney. A draft motor, thermostat and pump. Fancy advertising aside, why do you think the burn times are so similar for different types of OWB's ? A POS woodmaster ( or any unit ) is really hard to fathom that its that far off the mark.. I do agree they are remarkably inefficient for the most part and in a few years will be much better. I sure hope the improvements can be aftermarket........


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## pipe welder (Dec 27, 2008)

ngz I can't seem to drive through your head that there is only 12 feet of pipe outside, all the rest is in a heated garage and even the part inside is insulated. The outside has 1/2 inch foam covered with 3 1/2 of fiberglass and finally that is covered with plastic. I don't need some infrared gadget when I have inline thermometers with thermometer wells installed in the lines. there isn't 1 degree difference between boiler temp and and water temp at the heat exchanger. No there is no strainer but I am getting plenty of delta across it, I will assure you that you won't set your butt on one of my radiators very long. You keep harping on the house insulation. Once again it is the same as it was with the gas boiler and the same as it was with the inside wood boiler so it remains a constant. As far as pex goes its little more than glorified garden hose. Designed so an inexperienced person can install it with no fittings except at termination points. Boiler temp is set at 165 with a 10 degree differential.
All this being said tell me why it used so much wood last night and the fan shut off on low water temp when there was basically no heat load on the boiler at all except its own water. I have not added any wood all day and the fire is out' the house is still warm inside. We have had high wind all afternoon so obviously my house isn't real hard to keep warm. I won't even fire it up tonight and the house will probably still be around 67 or 68 in the morning.


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## modn (Dec 27, 2008)

Now c'mon...you can't blame him for asking......that is the 1st time we have heard that the temp is within 1 degree at the exchanger.....now we are getting somewhere. Is your boiler full of water? Are you running glycol or just water? You never did answer if your boiler was smoldering when it needs no heat, then comes to life when it does....basically what I'm getting at is there a draft leak somewhere, even a very little bit? When it is warm inside and your boiler has reached the said cut off temp and you open the door, do you get a face full of smoke and the wood looks like charcoal or is it still flaming? What is the temp on the return side at the boiler? Do you have a temp gauge there? Can you get a pic of the exchanger or the install?


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## bowtechmadman (Dec 27, 2008)

Phew glad I got a good woodmaster. Stacked her full Thursday at 3pm...turned the stats down to 67, returned home Sat. morning at 3am to 174 degree water and quite a bit of wood left (yep got a good face load of smoke when I opened her up). If my math is right that's 36hrs, then again my pex only runs 120 ft, and i'm only heating 3800 sq. ft home.


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## modn (Dec 27, 2008)

bowtechmadman said:


> Phew glad I got a good woodmaster. Stacked her full Thursday at 3pm...turned the stats down to 67, returned home Sat. morning at 3am to 174 degree water and quite a bit of wood left (yep got a good face load of smoke when I opened her up). If my math is right that's 36hrs,
> 
> 
> > then again my pex only runs 120 ft, and i'm only heating 3800 sq. ft home
> ...



Well there's your problem right there!!!:hmm3grin2orange: With that little house and that little bit of line you should be able to leave for a solid week!! 


Seriously, that's great!!


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## ngzcaz (Dec 27, 2008)

this is what he doesn't seem to get. These units are basically the same. Assuming they are properly sized ( a big assumption since after all these posts we STILL dont know what kind of an area he's heating, might be 10,000 sq ft for all we know and yes it DOES make a difference, I dont care what you were using for propane or anything else ) if he has too much draft the water temp should be out of whack ) it cant be a blockage because you are running out of wood. That leaves us with the draft again or heat loss which you say cant be it ( by the way, how are heating the garage, could it be with the OWB ? if so how big is it ? oh I forgot, you dont answer sq ft questions ) 


Sorry if this sounds a bit scarastic but getting the info to help you is like a dentist trying to pull a stubborn tooth. Draft and or improperly sized unit seems to be the common denominator, but it sounds like a draft situation if what you are saying is correct. OR somehow you are building a fire directly under the chimney and all the wood you add is directly under the chimney, and all the heat is going directly up the chimney,now thats REALLY improbable but possible I guess...

Did you ever say what kind of draft setup it is or how its adjusted ?


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## pipe welder (Dec 28, 2008)

Boy you guys don't know how to have a good argument on here. You need to go over to ou power , those guy's can show how fight. All these boilers are rated for square footage and not btu's and this in itself give's them a way out. Just to many variables. If you go to their web site if I recall correctly the 4400 is rated for 5000 square feet, I have less than 2000 including the garage. The guy says why didn't I get the next size bigger, well with the horrendous amount of wood this thing burns I hate to think how much a bigger one would use. I tried to give a little background along with answering questions and I tried to be nice. But here is the thing, those here who are trying to fight me are on my terf. I was willing to lay my cards on the table I told every one my qualifications and I can prove them , when you challenge me tell every one what your background is in the piping, heating and boiler industry. Show me you have better qualifications than I do. Someone will say why don't you call a heating professional. Well [ duh ] that's like telling the cops why don't call the police? Or my personal favorite, see your dealer. Hey it ain't his fault he did his job, he is a salesman. I hold no malice toward the guy, in fact I like the guy. Why should he be held responsible for poorly designed equipment? But getting on here don't you think I haven't had other people look at it? all my friends are retired pros and they have all looked at it, my nephew who owns a pluming and heating service business looked at it. My nephew even put his electronic flow meter on it so we could prove flow and how much. Everybody that looks says the same thing, boy that a nice system' to which I reply yep sure is it just don't work.


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## pipe welder (Dec 28, 2008)

Oh a couple of more things. I missed my prediction about my inside house temp this morning. With no fire all day yesterday or last night and high winds all night, with the outside this morning at 26 degrees, my house is still 66 degrees. As far as getting a face full of smoke I get that all the time and yes the an comes on and off at set temps.


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## AIM (Dec 28, 2008)

Is this what everyone calls "BTU's going out the stack"


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## AIM (Dec 28, 2008)

Yesterday we had a really warm day so I shut the boiler down and modified my stack set up. I hope this increases my burn times and makes the thing more efficient.




It's kinda hard to tell what it is but it's just a 3 sided box that makes the fire travel to the back and around before getting to the stack. I have high hopes for it.


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## modn (Dec 28, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> Boy you guys don't know how to have a good argument on here. You need to go over to ou power , those guy's can show how fight. All these boilers are rated for square footage and not btu's and this in itself give's them a way out. Just to many variables. If you go to their web site if I recall correctly the 4400 is rated for 5000 square feet, I have less than 2000 including the garage. The guy says why didn't I get the next size bigger, well with the horrendous amount of wood this thing burns I hate to think how much a bigger one would use. I tried to give a little background along with answering questions and I tried to be nice. But here is the thing, those here who are trying to fight me are on my terf. I was willing to lay my cards on the table I told every one my qualifications and I can prove them , when you challenge me tell every one what your background is in the piping, heating and boiler industry. Show me you have better qualifications than I do. Someone will say why don't you call a heating professional. Well [ duh ] that's like telling the cops why don't call the police? Or my personal favorite, see your dealer. Hey it ain't his fault he did his job, he is a salesman. I hold no malice toward the guy, in fact I like the guy. Why should he be held responsible for poorly designed equipment? But getting on here don't you think I haven't had other people look at it? all my friends are retired pros and they have all looked at it, my nephew who owns a pluming and heating service business looked at it. My nephew even put his electronic flow meter on it so we could prove flow and how much. Everybody that looks says the same thing, boy that a nice system' to which I reply yep sure is it just don't work.




Sounds to me you have everything under control. Good luck with your boiler system.


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## tanker (Dec 28, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> ngz I can't seem to drive through your head that there is only 12 feet of pipe outside, all the rest is in a heated garage and even the part inside is insulated. The outside has 1/2 inch foam covered with 3 1/2 of fiberglass and finally that is covered with plastic. I don't need some infrared gadget when I have inline thermometers with thermometer wells installed in the lines. there isn't 1 degree difference between boiler temp and and water temp at the heat exchanger. No there is no strainer but I am getting plenty of delta across it, I will assure you that you won't set your butt on one of my radiators very long. You keep harping on the house insulation. Once again it is the same as it was with the gas boiler and the same as it was with the inside wood boiler so it remains a constant. As far as pex goes its little more than glorified garden hose. Designed so an inexperienced person can install it with no fittings except at termination points. Boiler temp is set at 165 with a 10 degree differential.
> All this being said tell me why it used so much wood last night and the fan shut off on low water temp when there was basically no heat load on the boiler at all except its own water. I have not added any wood all day and the fire is out' the house is still warm inside. We have had high wind all afternoon so obviously my house isn't real hard to keep warm. I won't even fire it up tonight and the house will probably still be around 67 or 68 in the morning.


Pipewelder,if I read this right,you are running at 165deg? unless it is a super warm day my c.b.won't do anything but burn wood at this temp. setting,on the real cold days,I run all the way up to 195 as that is the only way I can keep up with heat demand on the inside thermostats.I've found that the only way to make it work is to keep enough heat outside to stay ahead inside.I'm direct plumbed at 195deg. to a system designed to run at 210 -220 deg.I don't have all the experience that you have but this is what I have found to make mine work for me.You might try upping your limits on your owb to max. and seeing what it does for you.Mine truly uses less wood this way than on lower settings. Scott


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## tanker (Dec 28, 2008)

Slick said:


> Anyone else notice pipewelder just wants to complain and has dodged a bunch of questions about how the unit is installed...guess it's easier to blame the unit than your own install...
> It's not rocket science...if it's burning through that much wood those BTUs are going somewhere...plenty of other woodmaster owners manage to get those btu's to their house as heat...so we know it's not going up the stack, which means what? To me it means there is a huge heat loss somewhere and that's not the units fault....



possibility that not really a heat loss as possibly never enough temp to start with.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 28, 2008)

AIM.. its funny that you posted that. When I made the one post partly in jest about someone who shall remain anonymous that all the heat was going up the chimney and that all the wood was stacked right underneath the chimney, I got to thinking about a partial addition to my unit where I would add a section of steel ( maybe a third the size of the pipe, maybe perforated, maybe not, that would not allow wood to get right underneath the chimney i.e. go right to the floor of the unit. I've had blue flames coming out the chimney on more than one occasion when the draft motor was on... and like you, if I understand correctly, the flames would also have to go around before exiting the chimney. Probably should be easily removable in case it clogs or makes things worse. If I confused anyone this would be taking a piece of 6 inch steel pipe, placing it upright and then cutting it straight down. The resulting piece would then go against the existing pipe toward the front to keep wood from going under then chimney and would also make it go around to the back before going up the pipe. And like I said, make it removable so I can remove it when it doesnt work : - )

In any event good luck and let us know how it works. I for one, would like to know which OWB you have for a basis of comparison.

** has anyone else noticed the smoke seems to be swirling when coming out the chimney instead of straight up kinda like the gadget they were huckstering on tv a year or two ago that went in the air cleaner ?

 :agree2:


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## AIM (Dec 28, 2008)

My OWB is home made. We'll call it the "inventaboiler brand"
It's a 500 gallon propane tank upright with a smaller "not sure of the size" propane tank burn chamber stuck in the side. Here is a pic of it when I first set it in place.




It looks really ugly bare like that but since then I have had it spray foamed, sided. and a roof on it. It looks alot better now but I still have some modifications and some more dressing up to do.


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## pipe welder (Dec 28, 2008)

You are all talking and not one of you has posted your qualifications. I know what you want you want to find something you can point your finger at and put the blame on me, ain't going to happen guys I have the temp all the way from maxed out down to 140. the only thing raising the temp does is burn more wood. I tried to bow out gracefully and I was challenged. It seems I am the only one willing to disclose m qualifications. I keep having to repeat my self because the proponents of these OWB's are bound and determined to place the blame on me. and to the guy who said I was complaining wrongo buddy I was stating my opinion as the facts pertain to me, by the way what are your qualifications?


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## AIM (Dec 28, 2008)

NGZCAZ

I really like my boiler but I kinda wanna build another and make some changes.
It does a great job of providing enough heat for my house but you gotta fill the beast up quite a bit. It has a pretty big appetite for wood. I fill twice a day MINIMUM and most always 3 times. When it's really cold and windy I've filled it as many as 5-6 times. My burn chamber is 24" X 38" so maybe cubic foot wise it's kinda small. (I'll have to figure that out) 
One good thing is that I seem to have a situation that most don't seem to have and that is that I can more than effectively heat my house to 74 running my water at 130 degrees. I've turned it up to 160+ just to see and the result was simply MORE WOOD. One thing that I kinda wish I had done was lay down the cash for the spray foamed pex lines in the 4" tile. Best price I could find was $11 per foot and I'm running 90' to house and 25' to garage. If I build a new one I'm going to relocate on my property and I believe I'll spend the cash to get that pex.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 28, 2008)

pipewelder... you are correct.. the world is wrong. You are the only qualified person to state an opinion. These guys were only trying to help but since none know as much as you its a mute point. Its a piece of crap. Go back to burning propane.... 

:censored:   :deadhorse: :bang: :deadhorse: :bang:


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## J.W Younger (Dec 28, 2008)

my owb burns a lot of wood. if i bought it cost would be at least a thousand a year. propane would be more convient but expensive.natural gas is not avilable .i have 10 acres of woodlot which supplys about 2/3 of my supply. could be more but not wishing to over harvest it. from what i see here the 8 cords average i burn(year round) is in line with most posts. we all have to burn whats availabe in our area and of course volume would be higher with less dense wood than the oak, hickory and cherry that makes up most of mine. just a wild guess but if someone is experencing a higher usage something is not right with that setup. think I'll just leave it at that.


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## ericjeeper (Dec 28, 2008)

*after reading through these post..*

I honestly hate to enter into the cage.. But basically Pipewelder.. Your heat is going somewhere.. If it is not making it into the house it is leaking outdoors.. It is that simple..
Are you certain they insulated the boiler? I am sure your pipes are insulated just fine.. But is the boiler insulated?Maybe they forgot a process?
I am not qualified to fix anything.. I am a carpenter by trade. Not a welder or a fitter.. But I built my boiler from scratch and it seems to work ok.


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## Blazin (Dec 28, 2008)

AIM said:


> My OWB is home made. We'll call it the "inventaboiler brand"
> It's a 500 gallon propane tank upright with a smaller "not sure of the size" propane tank burn chamber stuck in the side. Here is a pic of it when I first set it in place.
> 
> 
> ...



Now that's some rocket science right there!   

Goes to show even the home built jobbers make heat, I'd like to hear what the real problem is with the manufactured unit in question....stuff just ain't addin up :monkey: 

I'm guessin the unit is waaaaaay undersized or heat loss of one form or another is an issue..


Qualifications....jack of all trades, master of some.


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## tanker (Dec 28, 2008)

ericjeeper said:


> I honestly hate to enter into the cage.. But basically Pipewelder.. Your heat is going somewhere.. If it is not making it into the house it is leaking outdoors.. It is that simple..
> Are you certain they insulated the boiler? I am sure your pipes are insulated just fine.. But is the boiler insulated?Maybe they forgot a process?
> I am not qualified to fix anything.. I am a carpenter by trade. Not a welder or a fitter.. But I built my boiler from scratch and it seems to work ok.




e,I'm just a farmer,truckdriver and a kind of jack of all trades who can work on,fix repair most anything that I come in contact with.I installed my own c.b. and directly tied it into my existing boiler myself.Do I have the qualifications to do this kind of work?Probably not but I have heated my house for 4 years now with the set up that I installed with no other source of heat so evidentaly it ain't rocket science but what do I know,I'll just go out about 8:00 tonight,throw my 3/4 of a wheelbarrow load of wood in and come back in the house like I've done for years and think pardon me all to hell for showing some interest in this guy's problem


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## Jkebxjunke (Dec 28, 2008)

Eric.. I was thinking along the same lines as you... maybe the insulation is missing or faulty?


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## pipe welder (Dec 28, 2008)

All I did from the very beginning was express an opinion. I even tried to bow out. The problem here is we have a bunch of people so prejudiced they wont let one person have their own opinion if it does not agree with there's. I was man enough to post my qualifications and when I tell the finger pointers to put up or shut up then they go on the attack. I personally don't give a crap if people like me or what I say. I don't give a crap how good someone Else's boiler works. The one I have is the one I have to deal with. These internet arguments quickly deteriorate to the name calling stage. That's when it time to call it a day. It's the same old ford, chevy thing ,no one is going to change their mind once they have it made up. Before this ever started I had already made the decision to call it bad money and gather up the losses and move on. If I find a factory unit I like I then maybe I will make a new purchase. If not I will have to build something that will meet my own standards. To Eric, its a lot of work to build,good job however well it woks. On the final note I stand by my original opinion, I think it's an over priced,under engineered wood eating monster.


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## Jkebxjunke (Dec 28, 2008)

pipewelder... I am just courious... maybe the unit is missing some insulation... I was to a buddy of mine who was a dealer in another state... and he had a couple that people could not get the burn time at all out of the unit... turns out .. that one unit had almost no insulation on it... and another one was missing some on the top... so the units were repaired and worked fine after that. so it does happen that sometimes they slip out of the factory incomplete.


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## Jkebxjunke (Dec 28, 2008)

AIM said:


> My OWB is home made. We'll call it the "inventaboiler brand"
> It's a 500 gallon propane tank upright with a smaller "not sure of the size" propane tank burn chamber stuck in the side. Here is a pic of it when I first set it in place.
> 
> 
> ...



I think you should call it the BUB brand... "Big Ugly Beast" but as long as it works and it looks like you had fun doing it... plus you probably don't have alot really invested in it $$$ wise... but seriously... nice work


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## Peacock (Dec 28, 2008)

Jkebxjunke said:


> pipewelder... I am just courious... maybe the unit is missing some insulation... I was to a buddy of mine who was a dealer in another state... and he had a couple that people could not get the burn time at all out of the unit... turns out .. that one unit had almost no insulation on it... and another one was missing some on the top... so the units were repaired and worked fine after that. so it does happen that sometimes they slip out of the factory incomplete.



I don't think he's interested in figuring out the cause of the problem. He'll spend more time complaining than coming up with a constructive solution to the problem.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 28, 2008)

Aim... well, that answers my question why I couldn't figure out the chimney setup when you first posted it. I absolutely love it.. Sometimes common sense is better than " qualifications " . A " rat bike " is a motorcycle that is deliberately made to look as terrible as possible but functions just fine, they have contests and winners are held in high esteem. You my friend, are held in high esteem at least from where I sit.


  :jawdrop:


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## bowtechmadman (Dec 28, 2008)

Aim...love it man...ingenuity at it's finest.
Pipewelder...no qualifications here to speak of when it comes to HVAC, other than my house is 73 and I've only put wood in once today.
I have an oil burner that is like new if you care to trade for that POS woodmaster you have. Oil burner is like new (hasn't been used in 5yrs) used extensively to heat the home it's first three years. Be advised it likes to burn alot of oil.


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## Jkebxjunke (Dec 28, 2008)

Peacock said:


> I don't think he's interested in figuring out the cause of the problem. He'll spend more time complaining than coming up with a constructive solution to the problem.



its a shame.. there seem to be a lot of good ideas about possible problems... 

BTW the 441 is a nice saw


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## pipe welder (Dec 28, 2008)

Can't sit here at the computer all day. I was going back clear out but when someone ask me a question with out trying to chest thump me and insinuate that I don't know my business after 40 yrs it's real easy to take offense. I have probably worked on more heating equipment than the collective membership of this forum and when someone try's to tell me I didn't cover all the bases and wants to put the blame on me because they don't something I said about their beloved boiler, then I take offense. This was my life's work, how would one of you like it if I told you that you did a lousy job at your profession when I don't even know you? Now to the question, to check all the insulation I would have to remove all the sheet metal, yes it can be done and there is insulation on the back in the access panel can't tell you about any where else. To the guy who accused me of complaining , no less than 3 times I have stated that I am not complaining just stating my facts and at no time did I ask you or any other member for any help, go back and read the whole thread. Have any of you ever owned a car that you were soured on, well same thing here!


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## Jkebxjunke (Dec 28, 2008)

pipe welder said:


> Can't sit here at the computer all day. I was going back clear out but when someone ask me a question with out trying to chest thump me and insinuate that I don't know my business after 40 yrs it's real easy to take offense. I have probably worked on more heating equipment than the collective membership of this forum and when someone try's to tell me I didn't cover all the bases and wants to put the blame on me because they don't something I said about their beloved boiler, then I take offense. This was my life's work, how would one of you like it if I told you that you did a lousy job at your profession when I don't even know you? Now to the question, to check all the insulation I would have to remove all the sheet metal, yes it can be done and there is insulation on the back in the access panel can't tell you about any where else. To the guy who accused me of complaining , no less than 3 times I have stated that I am not complaining just stating my facts and at no time did I ask you or any other member for any help, go back and read the whole thread. Have any of you ever owned a car that you were soured on, well same thing here!




there is a simple way to test that... with the unit fired up and running at operating temp... feel the side panels and the top if you can... if they are too hot to touch then I would guess that the insulation is either missing or faulty.. other than that it must being going up the flue. besides I don't have that unit you talk of. jut trying to throw a different light on things.. i mean isn't that why we post on here maybe someone can give insight or direction into where to check next? and on using metal pipes.. whats wrong with that? if its that close to the house then why bother digging? and the expense of the pex when your materials cost are next to nil. to me I believe alot of pipe fitting with iron pipe is going to become a lost art with all the new materials out there... or reserved for industrial jobs.


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## Scootermsp (Dec 28, 2008)

*28 hour burn*

Today @ 57F. Boy it's nice to just let the coals burn down and restock the wood pile in short sleeves. Winter will be back soon enough. I was just going to watch football until I logged in and got the idea to move wood on a nice day......oh well


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## modn (Dec 28, 2008)

> Have any of you ever owned a car that you were soured on, well same thing here!



Sure have....that thing went down the road real quick. Of course when people asked what was wrong with it I gave them little tiny tidbits at a time and didn't answer their questions directly as they were trying to put the blame on me!!! I showed them!! Of course I had a wife for 10 years and she wasn't performing well so I got rid of her too. I'm happy with my 2nd though, so maybe I'm not the best person to listen to.........Oh I forgot, you won't do that.


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## windthrown (Dec 28, 2008)

milkie62 said:


> I have the Central Boiler CL 40. They claim up to a 72 hr burn.They must mean at 70 degrees in the summer.Best I can do is about 12 hrs on a half -3/4 load and using poplar.To be honest have yet to use good seasoned hardwood in it and it is a 1993 model.I usually sell the good stuff and burn the junk stuff myself.May upgrade next year if anyone in Albany NY area is looking for a furnace.No leaks yet.



Poplar? I would not even bother to cut that up to heat with. That is about as bad a wood as you can burn. Do not judge an OWB burn time based on that kind of crappy firewood. Madrone and oak have twice the heat value as that stuff per unit volume. As for the 72 hour claims, I do not know of any real situation OWBs that go more than 24 hours on a load under freezing temps. 

As others have said here, we would fill our '04 model CB-4436 boiler based on the temps. Milder temps, fill the boiler 1/3 to 1/2 full two times a day. Freezing? Fill it 1/2 to 3/4 full. Into the teens? Cram it full, topping it up twice a day. The ex would fill it in the morning and I would fill it at night. If you overload an OWB all you will do is make charcoal out of the top wood while the damper is closed. So the fuller it is, the less efficient they tend to become. In mild temps, you can get long burns times by stuffing it full, but you burn a lot more wood that way.


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## ngzcaz (Dec 28, 2008)

Imagine..60 degrees and I'm out buying a snowblower to put on an old Bolens tractor. Today was the day to load up the trailer to the Bolens and haul a load or two down to the stove. Hmm.... leave it on the trailer, park the trailer by the OWB and when its gone fill her up again. No unloading except right in the OWB. And if it snows just blow the snow out of the way. Hmm.......


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## pipe welder (Dec 28, 2008)

Give it rest modn, everybody's tired of it, that includes me.


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## milkie62 (Dec 28, 2008)

*Windthrowin.........*

I only use poplar because it is FREE #1 because the town road crew drops it off to me and it keeps me from cutting alot of wood from my woodlot.But that is kinda the purpose of an OWB.You can use punky,ant infested semi or even junk wood without worrying about a chimney fire in the house.I use to heat my original 1500 sq ft house with my Vermont castings Defiant stove on 3 cord of seasoned hardwood.Now at 2600 sq ft I use 9-10 cord of mostly pine and poplar but wet.I am hoping to get next years supply done during late winter and early spring to see what seasoned wood will do.


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## milkie62 (Dec 28, 2008)

But I do remember the brochure for my 1993 CB CL40 model stated up to a 72 hr burn time.That must be dead of summer and only heating the domestic hot water.My cut for a year unsplit wet poplar requires a partial load at 7am and again at 6 pm.Need a wood shed desperately.


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## AIM (Dec 28, 2008)

Jkebxjunke said:


> I think you should call it the BUB brand... "Big Ugly Beast" but as long as it works and it looks like you had fun doing it... plus you probably don't have alot really invested in it $$$ wise... but seriously... nice work


Now it's just a big "KIND OF AN UGLY BEAST".
Levels of efficiency 5 or 6 out of ten
Levels of attractiveness 3
Levels of conversation piece 9
Levels of coolness 7

I'd like to bring levels of coolness up to a 8.5 or better but that may be a stretch!
The rest of the levels I can live with


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## windthrown (Dec 28, 2008)

milkie62 said:


> I only use poplar because it is FREE #1 because the town road crew drops it off to me and it keeps me from cutting alot of wood from my woodlot.But that is kinda the purpose of an OWB.You can use punky,ant infested semi or even junk wood without worrying about a chimney fire in the house.I use to heat my original 1500 sq ft house with my Vermont castings Defiant stove on 3 cord of seasoned hardwood.Now at 2600 sq ft I use 9-10 cord of mostly pine and poplar but wet.I am hoping to get next years supply done during late winter and early spring to see what seasoned wood will do.



Well, if it is free... still, it takes up room on the wood racks, and hauling it and throwing it into the fire and all. I burned cottonwood one year, and sycamore, and pine, and grand fir. And even willow. All lousey firewoods. You are doing well if you are using only 10 cords of crap wood in VT! We typically burned 10 cords of mixed sedasoned doug fir/oak/alder/madrone in an OWB heating a 2,000 sq ft house in mild winter OR. Though it had vaulted ceilings, and massive amounts of skylights and windows. And it has been colder than normal here the last 4 years. We kept the place at 70 degrees 24/7, as well as the DHW nice and hot. 

Seasoned hardwood will get you 2-3x the energy as wet poplar and pine. Seasoning the poplar and pine will probably double your heat output. But it will burn REALLY fast!


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## modn (Dec 29, 2008)

I burn Poplar and basswood in my fireplace. I figure since the beaver took it down I might as well use it rather than leave it to rot. It has been seasoned and it burns up pretty much like paper, but it's free heat and I'm getting rid of it. Actually the basswood has a very nice smell to it, but doesn't last long.

They are both great firestarters.


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## Biker Dude (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm pretty pleased with my Taylor lately. We have been having daytime temps in the 30s and 20s overnight and my wood usage has dropped dramatically. After a full load overnight there are still half a dozen sticks and lots of coals in the morning. I just rake the coals to the front and throw 10 sticks in and it is good until afternoon. Both the house and the shop hold temp nicely and the boiler idles most of the time. This confirms my suspicion that my wood usage which is usually a cord every 5 days is due to a horrid lack of insulation in my house and shop. The OWB just has to work too hard when it's cold in order to compensate for the poor insulation. I guess I know what my next project is going to be and it's going to get itchy!


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## milkie62 (Dec 31, 2008)

*windthrowin*

Oh I am glad you mentioned it.I am probably doing a little bit better than I think with burn times.1500 sq ft of my house has 22 ft vaulted ceilings so basically I need to add another 1500 sq ft to my original 2600 sq ft house heating needs.So now I am up to 4100 sq ft.Wow I guess 10 cord ain't to bad then in my case..........


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## Biker Dude (Dec 31, 2008)

Yeah, I've burnt 10 cord already and we still have 2 more months to go.


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## modn (Dec 31, 2008)

Biker Dude said:


> Yeah, I've burnt 10 cord already and we still have 2 more months to go.



10 as in a full cord? If so...damn!! Better get to work on the insulation. Money very well spent.


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## windthrown (Dec 31, 2008)

Insulation is the first thing to do on any house. Regardless of what you have to heat with, that is going to have the fastest payback in the shortest amount of time. If your house is mildly insulated, insulate it some more.


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## blakey (Dec 31, 2008)

Biker Dude said:


> Yeah, I've burnt 10 cord already and we still have 2 more months to go.



You are done heating at the end of February?


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## November Wolf (Dec 31, 2008)

blakey said:


> You are done heating at the end of February?



We have at least 5 more months here. I guess I need to move.


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 1, 2009)

I've burnt 4 or 5 cord (yes full cord). First cord or two was total junk wood, some w/ some rot, birch, sassafras when it was fairly warm in oct., nov. Burning the good stuff since mid Nov.
Feeling pretty good have atleast another 8 cord of good seasoned hardwood.


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## dancan (Jan 1, 2009)

I'm not an expert and don't even own a OWB (but I have seen one ) and I'm only repeating a rumor and second hand info about a few people in my area that have a boiler from the same manufacturer that pipe welder has and agree with him 100% that they are using a whole lot of wood (10+ cord per season) .
That being said , a retired blacksmith friend of mine built his own and says he chucks a bit of wood in the morning and the a bit of wood in the evening , only made steam once and didn't like it one bit .
From his wood piles I'd say about 4 to 5 cord of crap wood for his small 100 year old 3 level house on the atlantic coast .


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## trshmn (Jan 1, 2009)

Shaver 165, standard 1969 ranch house, one story plus full basement and heated attached garage, t-atat set on 73 deg. burning since 10/17/08, 3 cord of wood.


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## KH-1958 (Jan 1, 2009)

I too have been burning since the middle of October, I figure I have used 3 cord of wood and I have 10 cord of Ash/mixed ready to get me through the season. I think I will burn around 10-12 cord for the season. About what I expected, heating 2500 sq ft and poorly insulated house.


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## ngzcaz (Jan 2, 2009)

Tough to calculate since I was cutting and burning junk pine down the back for the last month but I'd guess less than 2 cords. I just started burning the good stuff ( oak, maple, etc ) since the new year. A small 3 ft by 4 ft trailer load is lasting about 3 to 4 days depending on the temps.. Burn times are still roughly 12 hrs but its colder than with the junk stuff.

My only screw up was splitting the 2 to 3 cords of wood I cut into small pieces thinking I was going to modify my downstairs woodburner, cut some registers in the floor and mostly heat with that. Then oil went over $ 4 a gallon and I purchased the OWB. Now that wood is almost kindling ( 3 to 4 inches or so ) to the OWB. I cut another 8 cords barely splitting most of them.

:greenchainsaw:


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## blakey (Jan 2, 2009)

modn said:


> I burn Poplar and basswood in my fireplace. I figure since the beaver took it down I might as well use it rather than leave it to rot. It has been seasoned and it burns up pretty much like paper, but it's free heat and I'm getting rid of it. Actually the basswood has a very nice smell to it, but doesn't last long.
> 
> They are both great firestarters.



I got a load of basswood slabs one time by "mistake" one time for my owb. I was never so glad to get that used up, it just doesn't have enough btu's to run the owb properly (especially a bit green, it seems to hold water like a sponge). The guy at the sawmill told me it was ash and I didn't take a close look until I got home. The bark is pretty similar but l definitely can tell the difference now. If you need to do something with it anyway that's great but I now let it rot if it is in the bush.


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## modn (Jan 2, 2009)

blakey said:


> I got a load of basswood slabs one time by "mistake" one time for my owb. I was never so glad to get that used up, it just doesn't have enough btu's to run the owb properly (especially a bit green, it seems to hold water like a sponge). The guy at the sawmill told me it was ash and I didn't take a close look until I got home. The bark is pretty similar but l definitely can tell the difference now. If you need to do something with it anyway that's great but I now let it rot if it is in the bush.



I know what you mean. I have some seasoned Basswood (why bother) that was a blowover on to my In-laws cottage (wouldn't cut it intentionally) It is like balsa wood now and I burn it up in the fireplace....free heat anyway. I bet if I packed it full in the OWB I would get 3-4 hours anyway!!! I also can't wait to get rid of it, not much left now.


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## Biker Dude (Jan 2, 2009)

blakey said:


> You are done heating at the end of February?


I can dream, can't I?

I am definitely going to get my old farmhouse insulated and new windows as soon as I can and maybe next year I won't use so much wood. I use a pickup load stacked half way up the cab every 3 days or so. That should be half a cord, 10 pickup loads per month which equals 5 full cord. 10 full cord in 2 months. I don't blame the OWB though, when I used LP for heat I would burn through a 500 gallon tank in about 5 weeks and the house thermostat was set at 65F. Now my in-floor is set at 74F and my shop at 50F and the house is much more comfortable.


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## blakey (Jan 2, 2009)

I used to plan on running mine for 6 months but it is more like 7. I have an oil furnace but haven't bought oil for 7 years and it hasn't been inspected so they wouldn't fill me anyway. So this is my only source of heat, I lit it in early Oct this year but let it go out for a few days in early Nov when it got mild.


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## Laird (Jan 2, 2009)

*Vacation*

Just got back from a week off somewhere warmer. Turned the thermostat down to 50° and had someone load for me while we were gone. Got (barely from what I hear) 24 hrs out of a loading with 30's during the day and 20's at night. I was hoping it would do 24hrs with no problem but it was close. I did notice that he burned some of my junk wood (poplar, sassafras) so that may have been part of the problem.


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## Scootermsp (Jan 2, 2009)

*Sassafras*

I like Sassafras, it's my best "junk" wood. The larger rounds mixed in with oak burn pretty well. I've been going through my hickory here the last few days, I've been getting 12+ hrs easy with highs in teens, lows around zero.


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## Slick (Jan 2, 2009)

I burned out last night...was at my girlfriends with a sick dog for over 19 hours...came home to under 100 degree water and cool coals  Should have ran home late last night and fed the beast....
5036 feeding a 2800sqft shop (heating to 50deg) and 1200+ft house


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## milkie62 (Jan 3, 2009)

*What is the standard ?*

I would still like to know how Central Boiler figured up to 72 Hr burn on my CL40. There should be some industry standard for indoor and outdoor temperature and amt of insulation in the house.If they can give an "up to" burn time they should also list the standard that they are using.


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