# Logger Lingo



## treejunkie13 (Jan 14, 2008)

Curious of some learning some phrases used out west?

What is a Gypo? A Cat side? A Shovel side?

Thanks Andy


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## sILlogger (Jan 14, 2008)

i'm no left coaster but this is my interpretation

gypo: a freelance timber worker, possibly self employed, or an outcast??

cat side: a strip that was or will be worked with cats(dozers) catskinners are the cat operators

shovel side: i would say that would be a strip that was worked by a yarder??


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## slowp (Jan 14, 2008)

Gypo: Small, independent logging outfit or independent logger. What we mostly have in this area now. 

Cat side: What SILogger said.

Shovel side: Shovel logging area. The loader is often called a shovel and can be used to walk out and work logs from out in the unit back to the landing. 
It can be easier on the ground than a skidder and requires less people. I heard it all winter, from a gypo logger, working in a unit with a COURT ORDER that no ground based (skidder, cat, shovel, horse) logging was to be done, 
"Can I shovel log it? There's enough snow. Nobody would know." If I could sing, I'd have the *What Part Of No Don't You Understand *song memorized by now. Some loaders/shovels are designed for longer reach so they can reach farther and cause less ground compaction/disturbance. I'd say they can't work on steep ground but it is amazing where I've seen operators shovel log and ....they got shut down for it too.  

Yarder side: Yarder logging area. Also called line machines. Most of the logging around here is yarder because of our wet weather.


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## clearance (Jan 14, 2008)

Shovel side is called hoe-chuck here.


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## RPM (Jan 15, 2008)

We hoe chuck alot of sensitive ground, especially on snow. When we started hoe chucking on the coast (esp. in the second growth) the grapple yarder crews got prety crabby as the tracked loaders started to rob their ground. We will hoe chuck up to 50% slopes and can reach abit steeper if the fallers tip the trees down hill (grab the tops and slide down hill). Alot of the hoe chuck is done in conjunction with a grapple skidder around here. Most of the guys hoe chucking here use larger hydraulic loaders (Madill 1800 - 3800 series loaders) like slowp mentioned they have the reach - some use a heal and grapple - others just a grapple. If they're not loading in the landing then they can be out in the block chucking. Some pics below show hoe chucking and cable yarding (w/grapple).


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 15, 2008)

A wealth of info. Thanks a bunch guys.
Now besides the obvious, what is the difference in uphill verse downhill? Does that have to do with where the landing is?
Also... Gypo is that gi-po?


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## slowp (Jan 15, 2008)

treejunkie13 said:


> A wealth of info. Thanks a bunch guys.
> Now besides the obvious, what is the difference in uphill verse downhill? Does that have to do with where the landing is?
> Also... Gypo is that gi-po?



Uphill yarding is dragging the logs from below the landing uphill to the landing. Logs will stay in line when getting pulled uphill. Gear can be packed downhill by the rigging crew and then when that road (area reached from a setting) is yarded, the blocks and wire can be yarded up. Less scarring of leave trees, more control. We like this. 
Downhill yarding, is dragging the logs and trying to keep them in control coming down to the yarder landing. More dangerous, slower but we do a lot of it in my local area because it cuts down on road building. Ideally you want a hill with a flattish bottom where the yarder sits so the logs can be slowed down using the terrain if things get out of hand. Otherwise, if something goes bad, the logs can slam into the yarder and shovel and chaser. All the blocks and haywire have to be packed uphill by the rigging crew and everything is very heavy. Haywire is a small about a quarter inch steel line that is used to pull up the skyline through the blocks because it can be packed and comes in shorter sections to make it packable. The sections are fastened together. "They're stringing out the haywire." The haywire is strung out, run through the block(s) and then attached to the skyline. Then the yarder spools in the haywire and that pulls the larger skyline into place. So, packing all this stuff uphill can be a real pain, literally. 

Cat, skidder, skidding is the opposite, downhill good, uphill bad.

Gypo is pronounce Gyp as in Gypsy and po as in we have no money so we are po'.

Here's a couple of pictures showing a landing set up for downhill, and a hooktender starting to "pack steel" or haywire up the hill. He's got it on his right shoulder. Notice the duck tape.
A boring color.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks much Slowp!
I feel as if I'm in school again... The little differences are pretty interesting.
Do you always carry a camera with you?
BLAAHH to the boring colors... I flash hot pink laces on my winter calks


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## slowp (Jan 16, 2008)

treejunkie13 said:


> Thanks much Slowp!
> I feel as if I'm in school again... The little differences are pretty interesting.
> Do you always carry a camera with you?
> BLAAHH to the boring colors... I flash hot pink laces on my winter calks



I do pack my little camera when the weather is not too nasty. I've been getting a good collection of photos so when somebody asks what will it look like, or what will happen, or claims the world as we know it will come to a violent end if we cut a tree, I can download and print a picture and show what goes on. Works great with people that won't get out on the ground but know what goes on because they read about it somewhere.


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## GASoline71 (Jan 16, 2008)

Here is a couple of pictures taken of the shovel side. Notice that the Spar pole is also set up on this side as well. Makes it easier for the shovel operator to pick logs and sort them in "short stacks" prior to being loaded on the trucks.












Gary


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## RPM (Jan 16, 2008)

Is that a Skagit tower in the back?


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## Dan97526 (Jan 17, 2008)

'Side,' at least in Southern Oregon, is used as a generic name for a complete logging setup. The following (imagined) conversation might illustrate:

"How many sides is Hanson running these days?"

"He's got a yarder side and two cat sides."

Meaning that he is running two ground skidding operations and one high-lead.

Gyppo is also used here for owner-operator log truck drivers.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 17, 2008)

I seem to notice that Komatsu shovel loggers are pretty popular/common.

How bout synthetic vs. wire cable/guy/haywire? Anyone try or seen it in use?


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## slowp (Jan 17, 2008)

treejunkie13 said:


> I seem to notice that Komatsu shovel loggers are pretty popular/common.
> 
> How bout synthetic vs. wire cable/guy/haywire? Anyone try or seen it in use?



Not that I know of. But I'm pretty localized.


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## gavin (Jan 17, 2008)

i don't know a whole lot about the specifics of yarding, but i was under the impression a "shovel" is another term for a supersnorkel? am i wrong?

anyways if anybody wants to learn about grapple yarders and supersnorkels, here's the worksafebc handbook for them: http://worksafebc.com/publications/health_and_safety/by_topic/assets/pdf/grapple_yarder.pdf


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 18, 2008)

Supersnorkel ? Holy cow now I have to learn myself what that is...
Thanks for posting the worksafe manual, that will keep me busy for a couple of Sunday's


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## GASoline71 (Jan 18, 2008)

Can't say I've ever heard of a "Super Snorkel"...

The term "shovel" as it was explained to me, comes from back in the day when steam shovels were converted to loaders for logging operations. The loggers just kept referring to them as "shovels".

I guess the proper term would be "grapples".

I can't remember if that particular loggin' outfit was usin' a Skagit or not for the the yarder/spar pole. There is 4 Skagit yarders sittin' about 40 miles from my house just rottin' to the ground. They aren't used as much anymore.  

Gary


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## sILlogger (Jan 18, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Can't say I've ever heard of a "Super Snorkel"...
> 
> The term "shovel" as it was explained to me, comes from back in the day when steam shovels were converted to loaders for logging operations. The loggers just kept referring to them as "shovels".
> 
> ...




well go buy one and start logging!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## GASoline71 (Jan 18, 2008)

Done my fair share of that already...

Now I'm just a "hired gun" contract cutter.  

Gary


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## sILlogger (Jan 18, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Done my fair share of that already...
> 
> Now I'm just a "hired gun" contract cutter.
> 
> Gary



thats pretty well what i do around here to..its a bit different from the way things are done out there tho


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## Dave Hadden (Jan 18, 2008)

Here's a few from my experiences and yes, there were (maybe still are) Supersnorkles. Tahsis Company at Gold River Logging made one from an American log loader and I seem to recall one at BCFP Ltd. in Port Renfrew.
They had a really long extended wooden boom off them and could basically short yard stuff in to themselves as they moved along and then load it out.
Good operators could toss the grapple quite a distance and "caught" logs that way too.
Also, what a couple of you guys call "haywire" is what we called Strawline, commonly 7/16" in diameter and used to pull the mainline and haulback out through the backend blocks, commonly called haulback blocks, when stringing up the side. This is for conventional high lead logging with a tower, usually a 90' Madill in my experience. One of the old sayings amongst BC loggers was "you couldn't go too far wrong if you yarded with a Madill and loaded with an American."

I probably know most of the different words or phrases commonly used in BC coastal logging camps, having spent some number of years working in the industry, so if you have any others you'd like described or identified, fire away.


Take care.


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## clearance (Jan 18, 2008)

I had seen pictures of supersnorkles but never seen one. In 2005 on the Queen Charlottes I saw one that was not a super but still had a long stick. It was cherry picking logs from the road (all logs within about 75ft.) and loading trucks. So it was being used as line loader, another thing I had never seen. I watched it for a while, Dave, you have probably seen line loaders, but as you know they have been replaced by hydraulic loaders. They must be a very hard to operate machine, especially for loading trucks. Lots of skill needed to run one, nothing like a hoe.


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 18, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> There is 4 Skagit yarders sittin' about 40 miles from my house just rottin' to the ground. They aren't used as much anymore.
> 
> Gary



Are those the ones sitten out there around Deming. A couple down the road from me about 3 miles sad to watch them rot. Yarders seem to have shrunk big time.


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## RPM (Jan 18, 2008)

Heres the closest thing to a super snorkel I could find from when I worked on the coast. Imagine another pole or 2 out past where this one is rigged. As mentioned before most of these were used to 'cherry pick' right of ways - cheap wood to the road side and most cases set up the side (or setting) to be yarded by the grapple yarder or tower. Right of ways were cherry picked prior to yarding so guy line stumps could be rigged up for the yarders (uphill and down). They were also used for loading big old growth pumpkins as well.

This was one of our Skagit towers (110') that we used mainly for skyline yarding with a motorized drop line carriage (4cly diesel) with 500' of drop line (3/4") with 5/8" chokers. Used to run about 8-9 guys per tower (hook tender, rigging slinger, 3 chokermen, yarder engineer, chaser, loader operator, buckerman). We had 3 of the 110' towers at one time but as noted they too are probably rotting somewhere now as well.


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## gavin (Jan 19, 2008)

Dave Hadden said:


> Here's a few from my experiences and yes, there were (maybe still are) Supersnorkles. Tahsis Company at Gold River Logging made one from an American log loader and I seem to recall one at BCFP Ltd. in Port Renfrew.
> They had a really long extended wooden boom off them and could basically short yard stuff in to themselves as they moved along and then load it out.
> Good operators could toss the grapple quite a distance and "caught" logs that way too.
> Also, what a couple of you guys call "haywire" is what we called Strawline, commonly 7/16" in diameter and used to pull the mainline and haulback out through the backend blocks, commonly called haulback blocks, when stringing up the side. This is for conventional high lead logging with a tower, usually a 90' Madill in my experience. One of the old sayings amongst BC loggers was "you couldn't go too far wrong if you yarded with a Madill and loaded with an American."
> ...



i've only seen one supersnorkel, it was on the timberwest cowichan woodlands a few years ago. a buddy at work explained to me about how good operators could cast the grapple out like a fishing line and catch logs. man i'd love to see that. i would have figured that would be damn near impossible.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 19, 2008)

Log Fishin' now that sounds interesting!


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## RPM (Jan 20, 2008)

_Here's a few from my experiences and yes, there were (maybe still are) Supersnorkles. Tahsis Company at Gold River Logging made one from an American log loader and I seem to recall one at BCFP Ltd. in Port Renfrew_.

Dave,

The line loader in my pictures is probably the BCFP one you saw in Port Renfrew....note the the nice orange and green paint scheme. This block was up the Harris Creek drainage - north side of the San Jaun around 1997-98. I've seen guys cast that line and grapple about 150' down a hillside to 'catch' wood!


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 20, 2008)

RPM said:


> Heres the closest thing to a super snorkel I could find from when I worked on the coast. Imagine another pole or 2 out past where this one is rigged. As mentioned before most of these were used to 'cherry pick' right of ways - cheap wood to the road side and most cases set up the side (or setting) to be yarded by the grapple yarder or tower. Right of ways were cherry picked prior to yarding so guy line stumps could be rigged up for the yarders (uphill and down). They were also used for loading big old growth pumpkins as well.
> 
> This was one of our Skagit towers (110') that we used mainly for skyline yarding with a motorized drop line carriage (4cly diesel) with 500' of drop line (3/4") with 5/8" chokers. Used to run about 8-9 guys per tower (hook tender, rigging slinger, 3 chokermen, yarder engineer, chaser, loader operator, buckerman). We had 3 of the 110' towers at one time but as noted they too are probably rotting somewhere now as well.



Great pics. Reminds me lovingly of the 'good ole days'. One of my first jobs in the bush was at Port Renfrew in the mid 70's. Spent a winter there (instead of Mexico where I should have been - idiot). Nothing like working in rain falling 1''/hr all day.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 20, 2008)

"I've seen guys cast that line and grapple about 150' down a hillside to 'catch' wood!"

How in the heck? I have a vision, but sure it is off...

What kind of grapple would withstand being tossed around like that?


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## RPM (Jan 20, 2008)

Just like you were spin casting with a fishing rod.....The operator swings the machine through an arc and while doing so holds the brake on the line drum that has the grapple attched - once he gets the boom pointed close to where he wants to cast he lets the drum go and gravity and the grapple let go pulling line out behind it. The picture below is of a yarding grapple - they're pretty solid (steel) and weigh a good 1,500lbs - if they can survive a logger you know thats tough. The grapples on the line loaders where a bit simpler looking (still use a opening/closing line) - its logging stuff - nothing pretty or fancy about it - just practical and functional....kinda like duct tape!


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## woodfarmer (Jan 20, 2008)

that is pretty amazing from this flatlanders view point. i don't think i would want to be the hooktender, or is the choker a worse job, but i guess that is were they start all the newbies? on average what is each logs diameter and length.


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## Dave Hadden (Jan 20, 2008)

I was the Warehouseman for BCFP at Renfrew and later at Gordon River from 1976 until 1984, so I recognize the paint scheme alright. 
And "casting" the grapple was well described above so I won't repeat it, but some guys were pretty good at it under the right circumstances.
Funny how operators differ in skill and finesse.
I've seen guys that were absolute artists at operating big machines, yarders, loaders, off highway trucks. big stackers in the dryland sort and the like, practically able to take your hardhat off with the grapple without touching you in some cases, while others were the proverbial "dumb as a sack of hammers" types who kept their jobs only by virtue of union seniority and would wreck a new machine in a year. Frustrating guys for the Master Mechanic and shop crew I'll tell you.
Back in those days it was still mostly all line loaders still and hydraulics hadn't taken over. I started just as grapple yarders came in so witnessed the wholesale change in logging practises and the opening up of areas that would not have easily been logged in the conventional way (high lead) during the next 20 years of my career in the industry.
I remember when Tahsis Co. Gold River Logging got the first Skagit SST grapple yarder ever built, serial #1001. I bought lots of parts for it as we worked out the bugs. No machine ever built would last long logging without some modifications it seems. 
Chum Carley, a smalltime contractor from southern VanIsle had serial #1002, and BCFP Renfrew Logging had serial #1003. Later on I found other old Skagits being used for a variety of jobs by Lemare Lake Logging in Port McNeill, I think serial #'s 1017, 1026 and 1027 if I recall right.
As a company guy back then we thought grapple yarders were great because they cut the crew in half manpower-wise and we could log really steep terrain with them, something there is plenty of on Vancouver Island.


Hey BC Wetcoast, does the name "Skinhead" ring a bell with you from your Renfrew days?
Herb Halliday maybe?

Take care.


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## slowp (Jan 22, 2008)

We called the spars, tubes and I made it a point never to look up when on the landing of a big one, too scary. You look up and that tube is waggling all over, then you wonder what the heck you are doing underneath and try to sooth yourself with the thought of all the guylines that hold it, except a couple are anchored in an old cull deck which is shaking pretty good, ... and you can really freak yourself out!  When I worked here originally, the old cable and grapple shovels were common. It was usually and older guy running it, but the logs were bigger so not as many on a truck..5 to 7 maybe and occasionally 2 bunk logs and a big punkin log. The snorkels sound like bigger jammers. Idaho Jammers are tong throwers that used to be used in E. Washington but they take a lot of roads zigzagging so aren't used much anymore. Lots of the old yarders rusting away around here too.


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## GASoline71 (Jan 22, 2008)

Cedarkerf said:


> Are those the ones sitten out there around Deming. A couple down the road from me about 3 miles sad to watch them rot. Yarders seem to have shrunk big time.



No Brian... they are up off of HWY 20 between Sedro-Woolley and Concrete.

I'll try to get up there and take a couple of pics of them...

Gary


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## sILlogger (Jan 22, 2008)

so what is taking the place of yarders? or has logging slowed down to the point where some of them aren't needed


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## Dave Hadden (Jan 22, 2008)

The old highlead style yarders are being replaced by what are called feller-bunchers or processors for the most part as a lot of the logging being done around here nowadays is on second growth small stuff compared to the old growth big stuff that required the big yarders.

Where we commonly used 7/8" and 1" chokers to yard with I see some smaller yarder set-ups using 5/8" chokers and the like nowadays.
Most of the rest is being logged with hydraulic machines, commonly called "juicers".

Logging second growth with one machine also does away with fallers, chokermen, rigging slingers, hooktenders, landing buckers and the like too.
Not near as many jobs in logging now as there were even 20 years ago.

Still about two or three watersheds left on Vancouver Island that haven't been logged as yet, but roads into them are being built right now, so there will still be some old-style conventional logging being done for at least a few years.


Take care.


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## slowp (Jan 23, 2008)

sILlogger said:


> so what is taking the place of yarders? or has logging slowed down to the point where some of them aren't needed



Smaller, more mobile yarders with motorized carriages are the thing to have now. On the steeper ground a yarder is still used. The big machines had 6 to 8 guylines and took a half day or more to set up. That was ok when the timber was big and valuable and volume per acre was high. Now most people are logging smaller diameter second growth or third growth and speed is needed. So, the smaller yarders use 2 to 4 guylines and are easy to move..on tracks or pulled by a skidder or truck so less time setting up. If one is working in a partial cut, butt rigging can't be easily used so the motorized carriage is in vogue. These carriages use a motor to pull line off the drum from the yarder so require less muscle from the crew, for lateral (sideways) yarding into the skyline corridor. This requires a 3 drum machine or 4 (when downhilling) and a lot of the old yarders only had 2 drums for high lead logging with butt rigging--no carriage. The market is no good right now so smaller yarders are also sitting idle.


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## Cedarkerf (Jan 23, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> No Brian... they are up off of HWY 20 between Sedro-Woolley and Concrete.
> 
> I'll try to get up there and take a couple of pics of them...
> 
> Gary


Probably the ones I am thinkin of only run on hiway twenty once or twice a year so I don't have my land marks straight.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Yoaders*

Searching around I come across Yoaders, they seem to be quite the useful piece of machinery. 
They Shovel log, Shotgun yarding, load trucks, and most impressively they Tong throw.
Anyone had the chance to work around one?


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2008)

I don't think any of the Gyppos can afford a Yoader for a while. I've heard of them and I think one will be on that "coming soon to a tv near you" logging show. There is just older equipment around here. I can't add reliable to that sentence either. But there might be helicopters going next year, for sure if the lumber prices go up. And I'll get a lot of hiking in if that happens.


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## Burvol (Jan 24, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> No Brian... they are up off of HWY 20 between Sedro-Woolley and Concrete.
> 
> I'll try to get up there and take a couple of pics of them...
> 
> Gary



That's too funny...I drove by those machines a lot going steelhead fishing when I use to live up there.


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## GASoline71 (Jan 24, 2008)

Burvol said:


> That's too funny...I drove by those machines a lot going steelhead fishing when I use to live up there.



Yup... that's when I would drive by them too... or on the way up deer or grouse hunting.  

Gary


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## sILlogger (Jan 24, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Yup... that's when I would drive by them too... or on the way up deer or grouse hunting.
> 
> Gary



so out of curiousity how old would these machines be and what would it cost to buy one? a new one? just curious


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2008)

sILlogger said:


> so out of curiousity how old would these machines be and what would it cost to buy one? a new one? just curious



There was an old Skagit that was for sale for $3500. I think it needed a little work. After a year of sitting, somebody bought it. Some are only worth the scrap price..oops, a lot I mean. There's many of the big old ones along our highway and I-5 by Chehalis. Since most weigh a lot, they cost a lot of $$to lowboy anywhere. Back in the olden times, yarders used to move about at night and would mysteriously appear on landings the next morning. Always a mystery! One broke a bridge and landed in the Cowlitz River. It was a self propelled one. The operator barely got out. It turned into quite the attraction as in, "Lets go see the broken bridge and the yarder today!" They had to get commercial divers with cutting torches to get it out. Shortly after, the company did away with all their logging crews and went to gyppos. Ooops, that has nothing to do with cost, but how heavy the beasties are. New ones? I've not seen a brand new one since 1988. But I think they must exist. Maybe in _Loggers World_?


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## Mindy Hughes (Jan 24, 2008)

*History Channel's Axe Men*

Hi everyone,

Have you heard about the Axe Men series that the History Channel is putting out? The company I work for was filmed for 13 weeks for this show. I think (hope) it is going to change the negative thinking about logging. We are working on a website, putting lots of pictures up.

www.stumpbranchlogging.com

If you get a chance take a look.

Thanks, Mindy


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## Burvol (Jan 24, 2008)

slowp said:


> There was an old Skagit that was for sale for $3500. I think it needed a little work. After a year of sitting, somebody bought it. Some are only worth the scrap price..oops, a lot I mean. There's many of the big old ones along our highway and I-5 by Chehalis. Since most weigh a lot, they cost a lot of $$to lowboy anywhere. Back in the olden times, yarders used to move about at night and would mysteriously appear on landings the next morning. Always a mystery! One broke a bridge and landed in the Cowlitz River. It was a self propelled one. The operator barely got out. It turned into quite the attraction as in, "Lets go see the broken bridge and the yarder today!" They had to get commercial divers with cutting torches to get it out. Shortly after, the company did away with all their logging crews and went to gyppos. Ooops, that has nothing to do with cost, but how heavy the beasties are. New ones? I've not seen a brand new one since 1988. But I think they must exist. Maybe in _Loggers World_?



My dad has a skagit from the mid 70's that still runs! It just sits in the bone yard though...


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2008)

The Skagit owner's "new" yarder is an old West Coast one which, I think, is also a 70s vintage model. He said it was a forerunner or built similar to the Madill 071. I'll have to take a picture of the ancient gas powered Skagit, which is sitting in the snow at a high elevation. I won't be able to get to it till June. The guy who has it, cut it out of a blackberry patch and has tried to run it, but it breaks down more than it runs. I like the Jetsons style chair in the cab.


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## Clearwater (Jan 25, 2008)

*Yoaders*

A friend of mine ran a Yoader. I watched him use it as a regular shovel and as a yarder. I never saw him throw the tongs. He did show me how they worked though. Sort of like using a giant fishing rod to lob a huge hook. He said that he could get a lot of distance if tossing them down hill. The way he explained it, was that a "line Puller" pulled the cable off the drum, but didn't let it backlash on the drum. That allowed the tongs to be tossed out.

I just wouldn't want to be the guy on the other end who has to set the tongs on the log once it was thrown out. I guess you would just have to hide behind a stump and hope the throw wasn't too wild.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 25, 2008)

*tong throwing*

Got a couple video's on tong throwing, from a place in Oregon that sets these units up. Holy Wow! Super fast and accurate... (Practice required I'm sure) The video was from 2005 and at that time they already had produced over 50 of these units...(someone is making some money) It's just like fishing - the best way to explain it. They can throw over and underhand, up to 300'. The mechanism at the end of the stick is called a slack kicker, that keeps the line tame. They said that one of the wheels is coated with rubber and wears out about once a month for $35-$40. 
I was pretty impressed with the hook tenders, on how close the tongs would come to them and what little (few feet) they would have to drag to a log, put the tongs on and run. In about 45 min they had a truck load dragged up next to the shovel.
Of coarse this was a video which they can edit. But it sold me. Would like to see one in person.
Gotta go buy some lotto tickets!


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2008)

Clearwater, a young logger in Idaho was killed last year when he was hit by the tongs. The article said for unknown reasons, he was standing closer and in a different spot than he was during previous throws. I presume he was by himself with no experienced guys around to yell at him. 

I don't think you could use such a method in anything but a clearcut or massively spaced leave trees. I can see I'd go crazy and start using bad words to the operators about scarring up trees! I think they will have a yoader on the history channel show.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 26, 2008)

slowp said:


> I can see I'd go crazy and start using bad words to the operators about scarring up trees!



I'm thinking that it would take a certain kind of person to operate one. Also some outstanding 2-way communication. (Not just hand signals) I can visualize the tongs wrapping around a limb 50' up in a select cut...(now what)


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## slowp (Jan 26, 2008)

treejunkie13 said:


> I'm thinking that it would take a certain kind of person to operate one. Also some outstanding 2-way communication. (Not just hand signals) I can visualize the tongs wrapping around a limb 50' up in a select cut...(now what)



Then some excited young man would be wanting to cut it down. Guys on the rigging crew delight in getting to cut trees down. I can always tell which ones they have cut, they are generally not as accomplished as the fallers and usually have stump pull. I try to be out of the way when they do cut as I've had to run, or take a dive behind a large stump due to their lack of practice. Last year there were 3 instances of falling trees on the skyline while I was in the area. Not good for the lines or people on the ground. Everybody gets this look on their face when they realize what is going to happen. And then you run for cover. Afterwards, when heads have been counted, the boss gets quite angry.:censored:


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 27, 2008)

Dave Hadden said:


> Hey BC Wetcoast, does the name "Skinhead" ring a bell with you from your Renfrew days?
> Herb Halliday maybe?
> 
> Take care.



I worked there the winter of 77/78 on the forestry crew for the Oatmeal Savages (Roy Kittles and Frank White). 

Skinhead doesn't ring a bell, but Herb Halliday does. I just can't remember what he did. Being on the forestry crew, we were bottom of the totem pole and nobody would associate with us. We were in the worst wore out bunkhouse, and most of us got in trouble when we had a party one night. A couple of guys got fired, and the rest were written up. I had a better job lined up for the spring so I was just biding my time, making some money over the winter.

I think Rollie Parker was the camp manager at the time, but I can't be sure.


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## treejunkie13 (Jan 27, 2008)

Mindy Hughes said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Have you heard about the Axe Men series that the History Channel is putting out? The company I work for was filmed for 13 weeks for this show. I think (hope) it is going to change the negative thinking about logging. We are working on a website, putting lots of pictures up.
> 
> ...



Thank You Mindy,
It should be quite interesting.


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## Dave Hadden (Jan 27, 2008)

"I worked there the winter of 77/78 on the forestry crew for the Oatmeal Savages (Roy Kittles and Frank White). 

Skinhead doesn't ring a bell, but Herb Halliday does. I just can't remember what he did. Being on the forestry crew, we were bottom of the totem pole and nobody would associate with us. We were in the worst wore out bunkhouse, and most of us got in trouble when we had a party one night. A couple of guys got fired, and the rest were written up. I had a better job lined up for the spring so I was just biding my time, making some money over the winter.

I think Rollie Parker was the camp manager at the time, but I can't be sure."


Howdy again,

I also worked on the Forestry Crew starting in September of 1976. Frank White was the Foreman and his son Jim was the Leadhand, sort of.
I was on the crew when we first took on women, which was very interesting.
They could plant and all that but none of them were too keen about running a powersaw all day spacing plantations.
They ended up doing the layouts and stringing out the twine for each section.

"Skinhead" was Bob Robertson, and he was the Superintendent and another guy who I can't recall the name of was the Manager then. Later a guy named Don Ramsey became Manager and Bill Hanna became Super.
I started working in the Warehouse in January of 1977 when old Joe Weekes had a heart attack and couldn't come back to work for six months or so.
I also lived in the Forestry Crew bunkhouse with all the animals.
Quite a performance for sure.
We had a softball team during 1977 and went undefeated that summer too.
Lots of memories from back then.
Joe came back to work in June so I went on afternoon shift for a year, perfect for a surfer like me as I could go home to Jordan River after work, get up in the morning and surf the Point then return to Renfrew in the afternoon for work.
Great times.

Oh, and Herb Halliday was one of the Bullbuckers, in charge of the Fallers.
The fallers at Renfrew were the worst bunch of slack-ass useless tits I've ever encountered in the industry though, with the exception of a couple of them.
Worst crew on the coast in my humble opinion.
I couldn't believe what they got away with back then.




Take care.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 28, 2008)

Dave Hadden said:


> "I worked there the winter of 77/78 on the forestry crew for the Oatmeal Savages (Roy Kittles and Frank White).
> 
> Skinhead doesn't ring a bell, but Herb Halliday does. I just can't remember what he did. Being on the forestry crew, we were bottom of the totem pole and nobody would associate with us. We were in the worst wore out bunkhouse, and most of us got in trouble when we had a party one night. A couple of guys got fired, and the rest were written up. I had a better job lined up for the spring so I was just biding my time, making some money over the winter.
> 
> ...



I started in Nov of 77, left in March 78. Some of the names are familiar, but I had worked on the timber cruising crew out of Head Office the summer before, so I may have heard the names through stories.

Union fallers all over the Island and south coast at that time were notorious for having too much time to think about how awful their life was. The fallers at MB Franklin River shut down that camp (200 man +) because there was no apple pie. And the fallers at Canfor Woss shut that operation down because they had run out of bacon for breakfast.

Life in forestry crew bunkhouse was quite the place, drugs and booze every night. Guys were smoking up in the crummy each morning. Not quite as bad as the climbers, who are topping for the selective heli logging, doing lines (coke) at the top of the spar after they blow off the top.


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## clearance (Jan 28, 2008)

BC WetCoast said:


> Not quite as bad as the climbers, who are topping for the selective heli logging, doing lines (coke) at the top of the spar after they blow off the top.



Mouthing off again, hey there, how do you know this to be true? I know a few guys who have done standing stem, they don't use. How could you do lines outside, on a tree top? Gossip, gossip, sure there are guys who do blow, use junk, and the like. So what, they are in every industry, here you are telling people all over the world how bad it is in B.C. 

So, think back to the day, when you "worked" in the bush, ever get high, ever get drunk, ever go to town and get laid? Well?


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