# 60cc Awesomeness, who is king?



## Overkill338 (Oct 22, 2018)

Maybe some of you have used them all. If you were only allowed to own one saw (out of this group), which one would it be? I'm just curious about the answers.

Husqvarna 365
Husqvarna 562XP
J-Red 2260 (same as 562)
Stihl MS362
Dolkita 6421
Echo CS-620


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## ncfarmboy (Oct 22, 2018)

6421 for me! Although I do like 365 a lot.
Shep


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## reedo (Oct 22, 2018)

The couple 562’s I have make the couple 362’ I had look like underpowered weak saws. One stock and one ported of each. Very good saws in my opinion.


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## U&A (Oct 22, 2018)

562 for obvious reasons 


But i really want to try a MS363 if I ever get a chance. 

60cc saws are perfect for the size of trees i do 90% of the time. But i do run into some were i need a big saw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 22, 2018)

I had a 562 and a 2260. I sold the 562 and still have the 2260. I prefer the smaller saw


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## Franny K (Oct 22, 2018)

Out of that group I pick the 2260 for the bar mount. Dolkita 6100 is similar bar mount and inboard clutch. You have a 65cc saw in there that is really a de bored larger version, and a 70cc saw.


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## smokey7 (Oct 22, 2018)

I will go for the husky 365 tried and true simple saw with room to grow. Second choice is the dolkita 64xx saws. Still wanna try a 620p but I would have to find a deal or burnt up saw firsr. They hold the value used round here.


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## spyder62 (Oct 22, 2018)

I thought the 365 was a 70cc saw? If so replace it with the 262xp. 
I’ve only used the 562 out of the others. Great saw!


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## Overkill338 (Oct 22, 2018)

spyder62 said:


> I thought the 365 was a 70cc saw? If so replace it with the 262xp.
> I’ve only used the 562 out of the others. Great saw!



365 is 65cc.


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## James Miller (Oct 23, 2018)

I'd take the 365 or 620 simple basic machines that just get the job done.


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## cuinrearview (Oct 23, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> 365 is 65cc.


The OE 365 is 65, the current x-torq is 70.7cc.


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## Jet47 (Oct 23, 2018)

562xp.


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## bowtechmadman (Oct 23, 2018)

562 but only other out of the list that I've run is a 365. Probably, not a fair comparison since my 562 is ported.


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## RandyinTN (Oct 23, 2018)

I am very surprised so many of you had a chance to use all the saws the OP mentioned. About the only chance I get to use a saw is to buy it first.


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## Colt Marlington (Oct 23, 2018)

If they’re giving them away, sign me up for a MS261C-M.

There was a blue 6421 at the pawn shop for $350. It looked like a very sturdy boat of a saw


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## BangBang77 (Oct 23, 2018)

I've yet to use a 562xp, but I had both a MS362cm and a Dolmar 6100.

Now I have 2 Dolmar 6100s. I was not impressed with the 362cm at all.


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## CR888 (Oct 23, 2018)

A Solo 665 would be fastest & smoothest of its displacement, but when I think 60cc class I think of a dedicated chassis 60cc saw & a 562 is hard to beat. But my 555 gets the job done.


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## holeycow (Oct 23, 2018)

Maybe I am wrong.

I like my oe ms362 over my cs590 and my 262xp (not much run time on this one yet). It's a bit fat, but is smooth and powerful and rolls around nicely. It doesn't flip. It rolls. Smoooth.

I have only held a Dolmar 6100 (on two separate occasions) and I found it to be a very odd feeling saw. VERY fat, handlebar angles weird to me, and heavy feeling. Maybe if I actually ran one it would be different. Maybe it was the colour. I held two different green ones. Eeeew.

562xp; what can I say, a light sabre of snappy power. I have very little run time on one, but it is a quick and snappy saw. But you gotta keep it in the sweet spot.


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## Overkill338 (Oct 23, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> The OE 365 is 65, the current x-torq is 70.7cc.



Not to argue, but according to Husqvarna its 65cc.


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## cuinrearview (Oct 23, 2018)

Not sure where you found that, but this is Husky's website. That, and I've been into both the 365 and 372. Same cylinder with different transfer covers.

https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/365/966428620/


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## Overkill338 (Oct 23, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> The OE 365 is 65, the current x-torq is 70.7cc.



I found what you were talking about. Why would anyone buy that 365 when a 372 is the same CC and makes a lot more power.


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## Overkill338 (Oct 23, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> Not sure where you found that, but this is Husky's website. That, and I've been into both the 365 and 372. Same cylinder with different transfer covers.
> 
> https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/365/966428620/



Tim, the first thing I posted was from their 2018 full line catalog.


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## cuinrearview (Oct 23, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I found what you were talking about. Why would anyone buy that 365 when a 372 is the same CC and makes a lot more power.


There's about a $150 price difference. But in the time it takes to remove the cylinder, the transfer covers, and grind out the restrictions, one can turn a 365 into a 372xp. That's the only difference.


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## cuinrearview (Oct 23, 2018)

Huskies are the bomb Ken, you're missing out


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## Tallest (Oct 23, 2018)

Have run a 562 XP and it's a heck of a saw! Have an older stock 359, that does really well and is too reliable to replace yet. But if I were to buy, it would be a cs620 - I've just been really impressed with echo stuff recently. Replaced an ancient homelite 150 with a cs490 (I know, not apples to apples) but the cs490 is a really nice saw at a really nice price, so I think the cs620 would be even more so!


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## Overkill338 (Oct 23, 2018)

Tallest said:


> Have run a 562 XP and it's a heck of a saw! Have an older stock 359, that does really well and is too reliable to replace yet. But if I were to buy, it would be a cs620 - I've just been really impressed with echo stuff recently. Replaced an ancient homelite 150 with a cs490 (I know, not apples to apples) but the cs490 is a really nice saw at a really nice price, so I think the cs620 would be even more so!



Is that 590 Timberwolf all its cracked up to be?


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## North by Northwest (Oct 23, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Is that 590 Timberwolf all its cracked up to be?


own a 590 very nice unit for the price . Also have a 576 xp for bucking . The CS-620 is very capable , as is the Stihl . However for the average firewood cutter the pricing savings within the Echo line is significant .


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## tdiguy (Oct 23, 2018)

RandyinTN said:


> I am very surprised so many of you had a chance to use all the saws the OP mentioned. About the only chance I get to use a saw is to buy it first.


 Same here!


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## spyder62 (Oct 23, 2018)

The husky 359 deserves some love too


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## cuinrearview (Oct 23, 2018)

spyder62 said:


> The husky 359 deserves some love too


Especially once ported. My T4 2159 was so fast.


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> 365 is 65cc.


Not any more.


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2018)

The best 60cc saw is one that's been replaced with a 50cc and a 70cc.


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## Tallest (Oct 23, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Is that 590 Timberwolf all its cracked up to be?



I don't own one, but the guy who turned me onto Echo has one, and what it can do with a 20" bar seems absurd for a 60CC saw. It flat out screams. He has used it several times a week (on average) for as along has he had it (he's responsible for fire wood for his family and two others who run wood furnaces year around), and think he got it early 2017. It has held up will with minimal modding. 

FWIW, he runs amsoil saber in all his saws.


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 23, 2018)

blsnelling said:


> The best 60cc saw is one that's been replaced with a 50cc and a 70cc.


Like what ?


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## Deleted member 149229 (Oct 23, 2018)

I have muff mod & crab retuned 590s and a ported 590. They are fast with lots of power and handle well. The @Red97 ported 590 cuts well above a 60 cc saw. I sent a 6100 and an 039 packing and stuck with the 590s.


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## TurboA2 (Oct 23, 2018)

Tallest said:


> I don't own one, but the guy who turned me onto Echo has one, and what it can do with a 20" bar seems absurd for a 60CC saw. It flat out screams. He has used it several times a week (on average) for as along has he had it (he's responsible for fire wood for his family and two others who run wood furnaces year around), and think he got it early 2017. It has held up will with minimal modding.
> 
> FWIW, he runs amsoil saber in all his saws.



Echo says you can run a 25" on the 590. A 27" on the 620. Not that I'd want to try it but. Its impressive that a manufacturer says you can do it.


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## Deleted member 135597 (Oct 23, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Like what ?


Ms261c-m and ms461


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 23, 2018)

Woody harrelson said:


> Ms261c-m and ms461


Have both 261cm and 461R ... STIHL likey my blueprinted 362cm with 18” 3/8 .05 razer-sharp chain ... it will beat-up in the 261cm but lose handedly to the 461R ... don’t know why there’s no love for 60cc saws ... have heated homes and made moolah for YEARS!!!


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## damifino (Oct 23, 2018)

blsnelling said:


> The best 60cc saw is one that's been replaced with a 50cc and a 70cc.



Maybe us firewood scroungers can't afford two saws. If I could only have one saw it would 60cc. Couple of those saws have good history of being real workhorse.


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 23, 2018)

blsnelling said:


> The best 60cc saw is one that's been replaced with a 50cc and a 70cc.


Sounds like B.S. to me


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 23, 2018)

damifino said:


> Maybe us firewood scroungers can't afford two saws. If I could only have one saw it would 60cc. Couple of those saws have good history of being real workhorse.


Yeppers ... not just workhorses , some are “legendary”


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 23, 2018)




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## Ozhoo (Oct 23, 2018)

Let's throw some numbers out just for discussion. Echo numbers are their advertised #'s while the rest is KWF test data.


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## sunfish (Oct 23, 2018)

562xp or a ported 357xp.


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## farmer steve (Oct 23, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Is that 590 Timberwolf all its cracked up to be?


ya need to run one. smooth with plenty of power. ported and MM'ed even better. oh and i have 20 some Stihls.


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## farmer steve (Oct 23, 2018)

my fav in the 60 cc class. have a 361 and not even close to the 036. an old "workhorse".


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## Franny K (Oct 23, 2018)

Ozhoo said:


> Let's throw some numbers out just for discussion. Echo numbers are their advertised #'s while the rest is KWF test data.
> 
> View attachment 681270


Which era 365 is that? Look at the vibration data.


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## Ozhoo (Oct 23, 2018)

Franny K said:


> Which era 365 is that? Look at the vibration data.



Pre-Xtorq. That test was conducted in 2000.


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## James Miller (Oct 23, 2018)

Dahmer said:


> I have muff mod & crab retuned 590s and a ported 590. They are fast with lots of power and handle well. The @Red97 ported 590 cuts well above a 60 cc saw. I sent a 6100 and an 039 packing and stuck with the 590s.


Ported 590s are great saws that no one will run at a gtg cause it says echo on it . Troller ran mine in chambersburg and was impressed. Stock 590 runs about like an 036.



TurboA2 said:


> Echo says you can run a 25" on the 590. A 27" on the 620. Not that I'd want to try it but. Its impressive that a manufacturer says you can do it.


They oil better then most 70-80cc saws.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 24, 2018)

Ozhoo said:


> Let's throw some numbers out just for discussion. Echo numbers are their advertised #'s while the rest is KWF test data.
> 
> View attachment 681270



Some of the data seems to fit, some not so much. Was this an independent test, what country was it from? The AV info more than anything has me scratching my head.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 24, 2018)

The king of 60cc saws made today, IMHO has to be the CS-590 mostly because of the low cost. superior quality, simplicity, over the Husky and Stihl. The Dolmar and Solo are just larger saws with small top ends, good values too though.


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## wood4heat (Oct 24, 2018)

Not sure why they’re still making 60cc saws after the ms361. Seems like a lot of effort just to secure 2nd place!!


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## pavel408 (Oct 24, 2018)

Ozhoo said:


> Let's throw some numbers out just for discussion. Echo numbers are their advertised #'s while the rest is KWF test data.
> View attachment 681270



I am missing one line in the table...
Echo CS-620 HP=4.52 Weight=13.7 lbs/HP=3.0


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## August76 (Oct 24, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Maybe some of you have used them all. If you were only allowed to own one saw (out of this group), which one would it be? I'm just curious about the answers.
> 
> Husqvarna 365
> Husqvarna 562XP
> ...


The makita 6421 all day long! I like it better than any saw I own


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## ThackMan (Oct 24, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I found what you were talking about. Why would anyone buy that 365 when a 372 is the same CC and makes a lot more power.



Because it’s less $$ for basically the same saw as a 372


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 24, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> The king of 60cc saws made today, IMHO has to be the CS-590 mostly because of the low cost. superior quality, simplicity, over the Husky and Stihl. The Dolmar and Solo are just larger saws with small top ends, good values too though.


At $399 it’s a bargain no doubt ... not sure of how it will hold up to professional use however ... also the lack of dealer support may factor into the equation ...


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## August76 (Oct 24, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> At $399 it’s a bargain no doubt ... not sure of how it will hold up to professional use however ... also the lack of dealer support may factor into the equation ... View attachment 681369


My dolkita is 2 years old and $300 used from home depot tool rental. You can't beat the saw or the price. I guarantee you it will put the Timberwolf to shame and Outlast it that Echo is made out of a lot of plastic. I prefer the dolkita to my Husqvarna and that's a bigger saw
I think the dolmar Makita saws are extremely underrated I have a dolmar one one one which is a 52 CC saw and that thing is a beast for its size


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## James Miller (Oct 24, 2018)

Have a 7910 and the only parts on the 590 that aren't metal that are on the dolkita are clutch cover and handle. When I went looking for Saws we didnt have a dolmar dealer or I would probly have all dolmars.


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## Ryan'smilling (Oct 24, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> At $399 it’s a bargain no doubt ... not sure of how it will hold up to professional use however ... also the lack of dealer support may factor into the equation ... View attachment 681369




Cause the jury is still out on whether or not the 372 can hold up to professional use? Right...


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## Karel (Oct 24, 2018)

This is SO easy !
562xp


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 24, 2018)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Cause the jury is still out on whether or not the 372 can hold up to professional use? Right...


Huh ?


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 24, 2018)

Karel said:


> This is SO easy !
> 562xp


When/If they run !!! Lol


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## Overkill338 (Oct 24, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> When/If they run !!! Lol



Lmao this is entertainment at its finest.

Honestly, my MS360 holds it's own pretty well.


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## Huskybill (Oct 24, 2018)

Don’t sell the husky 460 or 570 coming up short too there awesome saws.


My old school Husqvarna 266se/xp can kick your new school Husqvarnas azz. Stock vs stock. Don’t leave the 268xp husky short either. Lol


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## Huskybill (Oct 24, 2018)

But really who is the modern day king of the 60cc saws?

My cutting stable is full of husky saws. A 353, 266se, 268xp, 570 xtorq, 575xp, 181xp, 385xp.


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## August76 (Oct 24, 2018)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Cause the jury is still out on whether or not the 372 can hold up to professional use? Right...


Right lol.but it's no where near 60cc


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## August76 (Oct 24, 2018)

James Miller said:


> Have a 7910 and the only parts on the 590 that aren't metal that are on the dolkita are clutch cover and handle. When I went looking for Saws we didnt have a dolmar dealer or I would probly have all dolmars.


The echo just feels real cheap to me around here the only people that run echos are landscapers. There's also a major problem with them being stolen from Home Depot along with it 450 Rancher and anything that's in a big box store so there's a lot of them floating around most of them are stolen Phoenix has a major problem with stealing saws
Look on OfferUp and Craigslist and they're can't possibly be that many people selling brand new CS5 90s in a box never used and every other size of saw that Home Depot carries by some guy with it looking like he just crossed over the Border last week
There's absolutely no real support for dolmar Makita here but then again when you buy a saw used from Home Depot's tool rental department you're not getting any kind of warranty anyways and I will do all my own work on my saws so I don't need anybody to do that but there is a dealer in town and he will perform work on any saw that you have


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## Franny K (Oct 24, 2018)

Huskybill said:


> But really who is the modern day king of the 60cc saws?



It seems the Dolmar and now Makita 6100 has the most potential to modify and compete at that level. It does not have a stuffed crank and has a reed valve for a portion of the air intake. No electronic carb. They can all have their kingdoms on the same continent.


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 24, 2018)

Franny K said:


> It seems the Dolmar and now Makita 6100 has the most potential to modify and compete at that level. It does not have a stuffed crank and has a reed valve for a portion of the air intake. No electronic carb. They can all have their kingdoms on the same continent.


Iirc Hotsaws101 did a video on that saw seemed to like the “flow” possibilities of the makita


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## Huskybill (Oct 24, 2018)

I started out cutting firewood for the house with craftsman chainsaws. A craftsman 2.0 Poulan and a roper I think 3.75 self sharp. My point is after cutting 20 cords of firewood they were junk. Then I was advised to buy Husqvarna due to there reputation on there quality dirtbikes. A 70’s 240sg and a 2100 cd never failed me. So is it choosing a 60cc saw that’s the best in its class or best for the diameter of the wood at task. What’s the best for your work? How do you choose.? After awhile I had many begging me to cut wood it turned into a business

I always had dreams of the biggest Poulan chainsaw before I seen the 2100. Bigger is better.?


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## Overkill338 (Oct 24, 2018)

Franny K said:


> and has a reed valve for a portion of the air intake.



WOHH! That's cool ! A reed valve on a chainsaw. Thats bad ass!


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## Brad2185 (Oct 24, 2018)

Husqvarna 365, especially if it’s a SP...I wish I never sold mine! [emoji17]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## holeycow (Oct 24, 2018)

August76 said:


> The echo just feels real cheap to me



It feels a lot less cheap after you run it a bit.


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## Overkill338 (Oct 24, 2018)

holeycow said:


> It feels a lot less cheap after you run it a bit.



Echos are just a noise that you hate more when you hear it again.


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## August76 (Oct 24, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> WOHH! That's cool ! A reed valve on a chainsaw. Thats bad ass!


I bought one used from somebody and it does indeed have a little Reed valve in it it actually had really good power but I sold it to buy the dcs6421 one because of the fact that the dolmar Makita 6421 can be upgraded all the way up to 79 or 89 CC and just put a different Jug on it with piston. so there's not a lot of that kind of support for the 6100.


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## cgraham1 (Oct 24, 2018)

I’ve had almost every 60 cc saw on the list, and I sold them all... I’m perfectly happy with my 262xp.


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## holeycow (Oct 24, 2018)

I guess I don’t have to try any more then


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## RandyinTN (Oct 25, 2018)

Which of these 60cc saws is the easiest to start after sitting on my bench for a month?


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## James Miller (Oct 25, 2018)

Dolmar or echo would be my bet.


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## Sepia (Oct 25, 2018)




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## cgraham1 (Oct 25, 2018)

RandyinTN said:


> Which of these 60cc saws is the easiest to start after sitting on my bench for a month?


I ran an 029 Super (and nothing else) for about twelve years. It was a very reliable saw for me, and always started easily. But it was also very heavy and underpowered for a 60cc saw, and the vibes were horrible.


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## homemade (Oct 25, 2018)

I own a 362, but would like to put a dolmar 60cc into some wood.


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## North by Northwest (Oct 25, 2018)

Tallest said:


> I don't own one, but the guy who turned me onto Echo has one, and what it can do with a 20" bar seems absurd for a 60CC saw. It flat out screams. He has used it several times a week (on average) for as along has he had it (he's responsible for fire wood for his family and two others who run wood furnaces year around), and think he got it early 2017. It has held up will with minimal modding.
> 
> FWIW, he runs amsoil saber in all his saws.


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## North by Northwest (Oct 25, 2018)

Run Amsoil Sabre in all my 2 stroke engines @ 50:1 Vintage or New , great product !


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## August76 (Oct 25, 2018)

The biggest thing for me is I don't see any reason to own a saw that is exactly 60 cc either 50 or 70 plus is where I look for a saw it seems like most people say that a 60cc saw ways to much to be competitive for the weight you might as well be packing around a 70cc Plus my neighbor had an MS 311 I think that's like a 60 or 64 CC and he liked it but I don't know anything about it


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## damifino (Oct 25, 2018)

I'm sure all manufactures make good 60cc saws, just comes down to preference. If I could only own 1 saw it would be 60cc. I don't need another saw but I would love to run or own a 6421, 6100 or echo cs 590 based on their overall track record.


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## farmer steve (Oct 25, 2018)

damifino said:


> I'm sure all manufactures make good 60cc saws, just comes down to preference. If I could only own 1 saw it would be 60cc. I don't need another saw but I would love to run or own a 6421, 6100 or echo cs 590 based on their overall track record.


Good to see you are stihl here.


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## FWANK WIZZO (Oct 25, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> View attachment 681261
> 
> Sounds like B.S. to me View attachment 681261


And nobody knows BS better than you lol!


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## cus_deluxe (Oct 25, 2018)

My dr al 262 kicks out the jams. Love that saw.


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## spyder62 (Oct 25, 2018)

Ok, so the I’s have it. The 562 is the undisputed 60” cc champion. Shall we move onto the 50 cc class and vote or just give it to the 346


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## holeycow (Oct 25, 2018)

That would be incorrect. The correct answer is jonsered 590.


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## spyder62 (Oct 25, 2018)

Sorry, it only applies to saws made in this century


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 25, 2018)

FWANK WIZZO said:


> And nobody knows BS better than you lol!


Incorrect ... I have no affiliation whatsoever with Brad Snailerizer


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 25, 2018)

spyder62 said:


> Ok, so the I’s have it. The 562 is the undisputed 60” cc champion. Shall we move onto the 50 cc class and vote or just give it to the 346


Horse feathers!!!


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## spyder62 (Oct 25, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Horse feathers!!!


Any relation to philly frank Rizzo?


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 25, 2018)

spyder62 said:


> Any relation to philly frank Rizzo?


Distant cuz


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## Overkill338 (Oct 25, 2018)

RandyinTN said:


> Which of these 60cc saws is the easiest to start after sitting on my bench for a month?



All my saws start on the 3rd or 4th pull.


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## Overkill338 (Oct 25, 2018)

August76 said:


> The biggest thing for me is I don't see any reason to own a saw that is exactly 60 cc either 50 or 70 plus is where I look for a saw it seems like most people say that a 60cc saw ways to much to be competitive for the weight you might as well be packing around a 70cc Plus my neighbor had an MS 311 I think that's like a 60 or 64 CC and he liked it but I don't know anything about it



311 is 59cc


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## caffeine1fg (Oct 26, 2018)

I have a 6100, a 365 special, a Jonsered 2165 and 2063 and I gave my early 262 xp to my nephew. I have never timed them or anything so take this like a grain of salt.
They are all fairly close but the Jonsered 2063 feels the fastest. The dolmar and 262 would be a toss up for second.
The 365 impresses me though since it cuts awesome, it is smooth and quiet compared to the others.


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## damifino (Oct 26, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Horse feathers!!![/QUOTE
> 
> No need for such strong language.


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## Huskitoter (Oct 26, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Horse feathers!!!



Is that you, colonel potter?


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## nighthunter (Oct 26, 2018)

Don't forget the 560xp, a little animal and very well balanced in my opinion and I'm a stihlaholic


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## Franny K (Oct 26, 2018)

nighthunter said:


> Don't forget the 560xp, a little animal and very well balanced in my opinion and I'm a stihlaholic


For the USA market Husqvarna has chosen to market their stuffed crank 60cc offering to fit the bars for the larger saws. If one wants the smaller husky bar it is the 555 or Jred 2260 if it is still offered. I think one also needs get the small spline clutch drum to be like a 560.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Oct 26, 2018)

Poulan 415 425 for me 65cc. IMO same class as OE365 6400 665


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## DCW434 (Oct 26, 2018)

I have always like the Dolmar line but service is a priority. I travel from Virginia to Florida during hurricane season with a Disaster Relief chainsaw team and the only brand I can get service for almost everywhere is Stihl - Husqvarna is sold everywhere but service.... Our workhorse is the MS 362C-M. I recently attended some additional training and had the opportunity to use the Husky 562. Found it easy to start and use but I didn't care for the balance and thought it felt heavier than the 362. Actually it felt more like a 461 in the hand but a lot of that is what your used to. If you only cut in your local area find a good servicing dealer and use what he sells!


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## Deleted member 117362 (Oct 26, 2018)

The ones I own.


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## August76 (Oct 26, 2018)

DCW434 said:


> I have always like the Dolmar line but service is a priority. I travel from Virginia to Florida during hurricane season with a Disaster Relief chainsaw team and the only brand I can get service for almost everywhere is Stihl - Husqvarna is sold everywhere but service.... Our workhorse is the MS 362C-M. I recently attended some additional training and had the opportunity to use the Husky 562. Found it easy to start and use but I didn't care for the balance and thought it felt heavier than the 362. Actually it felt more like a 461 in the hand but a lot of that is what your used to. If you only cut in your local area find a good servicing dealer and use what he sells!


I definitely would like to try out the 362 sometime I forget how much they're selling for new now but I think that that's their best saw that they are selling in that size the rest of the stihl lineup is just a bunch of homeowner junk in that size or smaller


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## holeycow (Oct 26, 2018)

Huh?


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 26, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Huh?


Yeah huh !


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## August76 (Oct 26, 2018)

I have a old echo cs60s it's a real heavy pig for a 60. That's the only saw I actually own that is a true 60cc
Got to get that thing running one of these days. I kind of think a 60cc saw sort of a goofy size it's going to be kind of heavy you're not going to want to Lug it around all day bucking wood and it's really not that big to cut anything huge that's why I reached for either a 50 or 70


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## SAWMIKAZE (Oct 26, 2018)

August76 said:


> I definitely would like to try out the 362 sometime I forget how much they're selling for new now but I think that that's their best saw that they are selling in that size the rest of the stihl lineup is just a bunch of homeowner junk in that size or smaller



You think a 241 and a 261 are junk ?


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 26, 2018)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> You think a 241 and a 261 are junk ?


This 241c made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs !


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Oct 26, 2018)




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## August76 (Oct 27, 2018)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> You think a 241 and a 261 are junk ?


Never seen either one for sale at dealer or used. Does it have a black handle plastic chain cover and clam shell? If so=junk


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## cuinrearview (Oct 27, 2018)

August76 said:


> Never seen either one for sale at dealer or used. Does it have a black handle plastic chain cover and clam shell? If so=junk


Seriously?


----------



## Termite (Oct 27, 2018)

I have owned most saws on the list. IMO, 6100 felt like my 365 Husky, just too bulky. 262xp vibrated too much,old school. 6421 and 365 too heavy for 60cc but are fine saws and a good value. 2260 J-Red modified is really sweet. 
I have no experience with the Stihl and Echo.


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## CR888 (Oct 27, 2018)

August76 said:


> Never seen either one for sale at dealer or used. Does it have a black handle plastic chain cover and clam shell? If so=junk


LOL!!!


----------



## Be Stihl (Oct 27, 2018)

MS-261 all magnesium even the cover, 4.0 HP - 10.8lb 50cc of screaming animal IMO! Don’t underestimate this saw. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Oct 27, 2018)

Be Stihl said:


> MS-261 all magnesium even the cover, 4.0 HP - 10.8lb 50cc of screaming animal IMO! Don’t underestimate this saw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Especially if you know how to modify them properly!


----------



## MountainHigh (Oct 27, 2018)

Just ran my 562xp hard today bucking up some 36" (butt end) x 60' long fir. Neighbour had his new 261cm and we swapped saws for a bit. YES, I know there is a 10cc difference so did not expect them to run on par. The 261 cm is a nice light weight, smooth little saw, but definitely not in the same league as the 562xp. A ported & muffler modded 261 cm would be interesting, being lighter, and likely closer to a 562xp in performance.

562xp - a light weight, slim fit, screaming mean 60cc machine that loves to devour wood!


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## August76 (Oct 27, 2018)

Be Stihl said:


> MS-261 all magnesium even the cover, 4.0 HP - 10.8lb 50cc of screaming animal IMO! Don’t underestimate this saw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sounds like a pretty sweet saw they definitely don't sell them around here that's a lot of power out of a 50cc


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## CR888 (Oct 28, 2018)

August76 said:


> That sounds like a pretty sweet saw they definitely don't sell them around here that's a lot of power out of a 50cc


The ms261 is one of the most popular pro 50cc saws on the planet, I've not been to Arizona but I bet a few folks outside your circle own & run them. What 50cc saws do you mostly see?


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## DCW434 (Oct 28, 2018)

The 562XP compares to the Stihl 362C-M. Both good saws although I have very limited time with the 562. I'm more comfortable with the 362 and 461 since that is what I use all the time.


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## August76 (Oct 28, 2018)

CR888 said:


> The ms261 is one of the most popular pro 50cc saws on the planet, I've not been to Arizona but I bet a few folks outside your circle own & run them. What 50cc saws do you mostly see?


They don't run saws that small here the landscapers are on echoes


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## August76 (Oct 28, 2018)

CR888 said:


> The ms261 is one of the most popular pro 50cc saws on the planet, I've not been to Arizona but I bet a few folks outside your circle own & run them. What 50cc saws do you mostly see?


Most people seem to buy the ms440 if they're really serious about chainsaws or the 461 there really isn't any professional logging industry here the forest service people I believe were running 372s and maybe the ms441 ms461.


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## CR888 (Oct 29, 2018)

The ms210 you have in your sig, is that a serious saw...


----------



## belgian (Oct 29, 2018)

the MS361 is the first disguised Husky made by Stihl and does not make me look at a newer 60cc saw. A real fun saw to use with plenty of power.
Only the PITA floppy caps suck.

​


----------



## August76 (Oct 29, 2018)

CR888 said:


> The ms210 you have in your sig, is that a serious saw...


it's a animal.. No just kidding. I use it if I have to climb up a tree and trim something or if I get my saw stuck and I don't have any other saw with me


----------



## Husqavarna Guy (Oct 29, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> The king of 60cc saws made today, IMHO has to be the CS-590 mostly because of the low cost. superior quality, simplicity, over the Husky and Stihl. The Dolmar and Solo are just larger saws with small top ends, good values too though.



I sent you a pm.


----------



## Husqavarna Guy (Oct 29, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> The king of 60cc saws made today, IMHO has to be the CS-590 mostly because of the low cost. superior quality, simplicity, over the Husky and Stihl. The Dolmar and Solo are just larger saws with small top ends, good values too though.



I sent you a pm about porting.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Oct 29, 2018)

belgian said:


> the MS361 is the first disguised Husky made by Stihl and does not make me look at a newer 60cc saw. A real fun saw to use with plenty of power.
> Only the PITA floppy caps suck.
> View attachment 682191
> ​



I think out of all the saws I've had a muffler mod made the biggest difference on a 361, it's probably my favorite saw.


----------



## August76 (Oct 29, 2018)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think out of all the saws I've had a muffler mod made the biggest difference on a 361, it's probably my favorite saw.


What did he mean when he said it was the first disguise husky that stihl made?


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 29, 2018)

August76 said:


> What did he mean when he said it was the first disguise husky that stihl made?



Stihl competed against husky's 262 with the 036 and 360. Then the release the spring AV 361 which obviously took some pages from the 262 book.


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## August76 (Oct 30, 2018)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Stihl competed against husky's 262 with the 036 and 360. Then the release the spring AV 361 which obviously took some pages from the 262 book.


Oh I see. They do have some pretty nice spring stuff on the 372xp the Makita dcs6421 is setup similarly they both have very good anti vibe but the Husqvarna you can almost watch the motor float around while it's just idling


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Oct 30, 2018)

I don't have the stihl variant but I do have the cs620 and the 562. The cs620 is more powerful and handles a longer bar better. It's also easier to mod.


----------



## Gugi47 (Oct 30, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Not to argue, but according to Husqvarna its 65cc.
> 
> View attachment 681224


You wrong....
*Husqvarna 365*


★★★★★★★★★★4.2 out of 5 stars. Read reviews. 
4.2 

10 ReviewsThis action will navigate to reviews.
4 out of 4 (100%) reviewers recommend this product
Husqvarna 365 is a saw for typical professional use. It has been developed in close cooperation with professional users working in the most demanding conditions. The low weight and high power are combined with a rugged engine, making this saw exceptionally versatile and suited for a wide variety of applications. The X-TORQ engine gives you a much more environtment friendly saw with radically lower exhaust emission level and fuel consumption.

Cylinder displacement
*70.7 cm³*
Power output
4.83 hp
Recommended bar length, max
28 in
Weight (excl. cutting equipment)
14.11 lbs
*
Check here:*
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/365/966428620/


----------



## Gugi47 (Oct 30, 2018)

Dolkita DCS 6421 Blue first edition.


----------



## Overkill338 (Oct 30, 2018)

@Gugi47 no, I am not wrong. Husqvarna's catalog is where I got it from. So Husqvarna is wrong. I sir, am never wrong lol


----------



## Overkill338 (Oct 30, 2018)

CR888 said:


> The ms210 you have in your sig, is that a serious saw...



On "serious" note, I have a 180 I consider serious. I opened the intake and exhaust ports up a little, giving them the "megaphone" shape. Cleaned the transfers, and port matched the muffler and opened it up. Used a eBay special knockoff of a WT215 carb for adjustability. I think it would run circles around a 210.


----------



## Jon953c (Oct 30, 2018)

Hey guys I’m new to the site was wondering if someone could run the serial number on a saw I was given for a couple buckets of dirt from a home owner next to the lot I was clearing Stihl 141629569 any help would be nice 
Thanks


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## Deleted member 117362 (Oct 30, 2018)

It's about 60cc saws, stop arguing it's a 562!


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## NeSurfcaster (Oct 30, 2018)

It's not the lightest or smallest but for a long bar 60cc saw, 62cc mcculloch's should be brought up at least once in this thread. Not a lot of rpm's but pulls full comp 24" threw hardwood well. I would imagine in the PNW cutting fir, 28" full comp would be no problem. Obviously the newer saws have many comfort advantages but I just figured if long bars were gonna be used/mentioned the 62cc mac's should get a mention. Are you done laughing yet? 262xp would be my 1st choice for a 60cc saw running average 60cc saw bar lengths.
I like the simplicity of older saws compared to modern day saws.


----------



## Deleted member 117362 (Oct 30, 2018)

NeSurfcaster said:


> It's not the lightest or smallest but for a long bar 60cc saw, 62cc mcculloch's should be brought up at least once in this thread. Not a lot of rpm's but pulls full comp 24" threw hardwood well. I would imagine in the PNW cutting fir, 28" full comp would be no problem. Obviously the newer saws have many comfort advantages but I just figured if long bars were gonna be used/mentioned the 62cc mac's should get a mention. Are you done laughing yet? 262xp would be my 1st choice for a 60cc saw running average 60cc saw bar lengths.
> I like the simplicity of older saws compared to modern day saws.


Not laughing 262xp's are great saws.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Oct 31, 2018)

August76 said:


> What did he mean when he said it was the first disguise husky that stihl made?



Quad port and no strato stuff, along with spring AV.


----------



## MGoBlue (Oct 31, 2018)

Gugi47 said:


> You wrong....
> *Husqvarna 365*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 31, 2018)

MGoBlue said:


> View attachment 682477



That's an old one. The hottest 4 cube around. The new ones are 70cc and only differ from the 372 under the transfer covers. Same bore and stroke.


----------



## Overkill338 (Oct 31, 2018)

NeSurfcaster said:


> It's not the lightest or smallest but for a long bar 60cc saw, 62cc mcculloch's should be brought up at least once in this thread. Not a lot of rpm's but pulls full comp 24" threw hardwood well. I would imagine in the PNW cutting fir, 28" full comp would be no problem. Obviously the newer saws have many comfort advantages but I just figured if long bars were gonna be used/mentioned the 62cc mac's should get a mention. Are you done laughing yet? 262xp would be my 1st choice for a 60cc saw running average 60cc saw bar lengths.
> I like the simplicity of older saws compared to modern day saws.



I dont even remember the front page of this post, but I think I was headed for best 60cc of the current crop. But since I dont remember, I say the MS360 is the best


----------



## Gugi47 (Oct 31, 2018)

MGoBlue said:


> View attachment 682477


Use to be....Now are 70.7cc


----------



## Huntaholic (Oct 31, 2018)

I just rebuilt a 562xp from a truckload of junk saws I got and let me tell you, that little devil will SCREAM! Im used to running bigger saws so I was taken by surprise with how well this thing cuts!


----------



## NeSurfcaster (Oct 31, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I dont even remember the front page of this post, but I think I was headed for best 60cc of the current crop. But since I dont remember, I say the MS360 is the best


Lets call it a tie!


----------



## 2lumbarleft (Oct 31, 2018)

NeSurfcaster said:


> It's not the lightest or smallest but for a long bar 60cc saw, 62cc mcculloch's should be brought up at least once in this thread. Not a lot of rpm's but pulls full comp 24" threw hardwood well. I would imagine in the PNW cutting fir, 28" full comp would be no problem. Obviously the newer saws have many comfort advantages but I just figured if long bars were gonna be used/mentioned the 62cc mac's should get a mention. Are you done laughing yet? 262xp would be my 1st choice for a 60cc saw running average 60cc saw bar lengths.
> I like the simplicity of older saws compared to modern day saws.



It always amazes me how these discussions go off track - ha! The McCulloch endorsement really got me to laughing. I had to use those heavy beasts back in the day. I think they were made out of depleted uranium to get the weight up, just for sadistic purposes. I have used most of the saws discussed in this forum, and have come to appreciate reliability and good chains above all other qualities. I can't disagree about the superiority of the Husqvarna 562XP. I leave the 70 cc saw at home when I have access to my 562XP. The 365 is a great saw, just a de-tuned 372XP for the most part. But for a young guy saving a few bucks, I could easily recommend the Echo CS-620P. Muffler mod is easy-peazy. They aren't particularly light (about a 1/2 pound more than the 562XP), but start easy, every time, and have plenty of mid-range torque. It won't out cut the 562XP, but offers plenty of bang for the buck, and you don't have to worry about problems with computer processor chips, or tuning with a computer. I would certainly take the Echo CS-620P over the Stihl MS362. Regardless of model, for those who love them, it is hard to diss any Dolmar saws either.


----------



## August76 (Oct 31, 2018)

Ryan'smilling said:


> That's an old one. The hottest 4 cube around. The new ones are 70cc and only differ from the 372 under the transfer covers. Same bore and stroke.


That has the x-torq? So I'm guessing the non or old saw original is 65 cc and the new x-torq 1 is 70.7?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Oct 31, 2018)




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## Overkill338 (Nov 1, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> View attachment 682636
> View attachment 682634


Bwaahahaha


----------



## August76 (Nov 1, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> View attachment 682636
> View attachment 682634


Exactly. Tacospecial. Homo depot


----------



## caffeine1fg (Nov 1, 2018)

This or a good running 362xp will eat a 365. I'd like to see how they fare against 562.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

This is easy, the most popular professional grade 60cc saw sold in the US is the 562xp, that tells you all you need to know, I have owned every saw on the list, ported and stock, nothing pulls like the 562xp, probably the best AV on the market as well.


----------



## caffeine1fg (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> This is easy, the most popular professional grade 60cc saw sold in the US is the 562xp, that tells you all you need to know, I have owned every saw on the list, ported and stock, nothing pulls like the 562xp, probably the best AV on the market as well.




With the 562, it is one of the rare Huskies that are prettier than their Jonsered twins. 

I have ran all the contending 60cc saws, aside from the 562, are they really that much faster/stronger than a early 262xp?

I have no doubt 562's are the best, one of these days I hope to find a deal on one.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

I actually prefer to run my 2260, same basic saw just a little smaller, is still love my 262s but parts availability is starting to become an issue even for a hoarder like me, the av and balance on the 562/2260 is probably what I like best about them, I was very hesitant about the new autotune/mtronic saws, i was patient and left them work the bugs out before I bought any.


----------



## August76 (Nov 1, 2018)

caffeine1fg said:


> View attachment 682657
> 
> This or a good running 362xp will eat a 365. I'd like to see how they fare against 562.


What's the deal with those saws? Made by husky. But why? I've never seen them out on the west . The name seems odd aswell. Marketing?


----------



## caffeine1fg (Nov 1, 2018)

August76 said:


> What's the deal with those saws? Made by husky. But why? I've never seen them out on the west . The name seems odd aswell. Marketing?



They are a 47mm, two transfer port cylinder, on a 372 based bottom end. Mine a is small mount bar.
They are too bulky and heavy for their class but have great throttle reponse and rev high as well. Most people just skip right to a 372.


----------



## farmer steve (Nov 1, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> View attachment 682636
> View attachment 682634


 the nuts don't fall off though.


----------



## Overkill338 (Nov 1, 2018)

Side notes what exactly is the 2 series huskys? I think 4 series is homeowner saws, 3 series is pro saws with adjustable carbs and 5 series pro saws with AutoTune.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

2 series is only the greatest lineup from top to bottom ever assembled from any brand. In the 60cc group the 262xp was the legendary saw.


----------



## Huntaholic (Nov 1, 2018)

5 series saws are NOT all AT saws. Ive been running the 5 series for 15 years or so, (guesstimate) The first one I got was a 575 which was their replacement for the 372, which in the bean counting world, they decided was being dropped from the line. After a brief period and due to customer demand, 372 production resumed but I had already switched to 5 series saws so I continued to run them. I know this is against the holy grail of chainsaw people, but the 575/576/576AT saws WILL outcut a stock 372xp and they do it smoother. I only recently started playing with chainsaws in my spare time and I have rebuilt quite a few junkers from the saw pile.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

The 570/575 booth had lower end issues, they got them mostly fixed in the 576 but they still have there issues once in a while, they are however a very, very smooth saw, popularity of the 372 has kept it in the shadows.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> This is easy, I have owned every saw on the list, ported and stock, nothing pulls like the 562xp, probably the best AV on the market as well.


Yah ... when/IF they run


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Not when or if, that's why they out sell every other 60cc pro saw on the market, get your facts straight!


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Not when or if, that's why they out sell every other 60cc pro saw on the market, get your facts straight!


Hey Dustin, your list in your sig ain't complete until you add a hotsaws101 and Black Cat machine to it. Just sayin'


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Yeah when I decide to burn some $ I will look into that, there's a reason there called insano. Till then I will just send my saws to guys that have been doing it for a long time with a proven track recordat a fair price.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Not when or if, that's why they out sell every other 60cc pro saw on the market, get your facts straight!


 #1 selling chainsaw brand in the world 
https://m.stihlusa.com/ And that’s the FACT Jack


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Want to sell a 562 hand the guy a 362 first, that's all it takes


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> Hey Dustin, your list in your sig ain't complete until you add a hotsaws101 and Black Cat machine to it. Just sayin'


I’ve got stickers ! Put on saw for an instant 10% gain and 2x resale value ... only 29.99 while supplies last !


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 1, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> #1 selling chainsaw brand in the world


That has been my experience too. I'm good with it. Easy $$


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Want to sell a 562 hand the guy a 362 first, that's all it takes


As long as the temp is under 60 degrees hahaha !


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 1, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I’ve got stickers ! Put on saw for an instant 10% gain and 2x resale value ... only 29.99 while supplies last !


Given the cost and claims of the port work, that fits right in the pricing schedule.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Fabz just talking more then he knows again, he has probably never even built a saw himself


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Fabz just talking more then he knows again, he has probably never even built a saw himself


 Never built a saw my ass ! That 441cm will flush your “precious” 562 right - quick buster


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Here we go, more you tube cowboy vids.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Next vid is a stage 12 right?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Here we go, more you tube cowboy vids.


Right ! Real men can document their exploits ! Where’s YOUR video pard ? Video or gtfo


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

LMAO, you are a joke buddy, we all know it, that's why your banned on the other site.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

Here is an idea get off the you tube and actually go build a saw


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 1, 2018)

Nothin' like taking a big fat dump on a 60cc thread like a vid of a 441


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Here is an idea get off the you tube and actually go build a saw


I show video proof of built saw and you show .... nothing ... ok hawa-rice-day !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

I tell you what, I will put up so I can shut you up, I will send my brand new never fuelled MMWS 562 to any reputable person, they can make a vid against any 362 you want to send.


----------



## Tallest (Nov 1, 2018)

August76 said:


> Exactly. Tacospecial. Homo depot



Isn't "homodepot" basically the same thing as Lowe's... which sells Husqvarna? Albeit 400 series... but being a big-box brand ain't an automatic crap assignment.

But perhaps being a big-box imployee, I'm extra sensitive and got my panties in a bunch


----------



## MGoBlue (Nov 1, 2018)

caffeine1fg said:


> View attachment 682657
> 
> This or a good running 362xp will eat a 365. I'd like to see how they fare against 562.


Challenge accepted...


----------



## MGoBlue (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Here is an idea get off the you tube and actually go build a saw


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I tell you what, I will put up so I can shut you up, I will send my brand new never fuelled MMWS 562 to any reputable person, they can make a vid against any 362 you want to send.


 hope ya got deep pockets big - boy ... don’t furget to send the 5 hun bet to this “neutral party” with your Ol bird legs special ... That’s me “work saw” ... me racers’ bout 60% quicker ... better stuff some xtra bananas in that muffled-mods-work-saw ... LMFAO


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 1, 2018)

Well that settles it @Overkill338 , you're gonna need a ton of cash and a boatload of kitty litter if you want to be the fastest in 5" poplar rounds with 60ccs.


----------



## DCW434 (Nov 1, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> 5 series saws are NOT all AT saws. Ive been running the 5 series for 15 years or so, (guesstimate) The first one I got was a 575 which was their replacement for the 372, which in the bean counting world, they decided was being dropped from the line. After a brief period and due to customer demand, 372 production resumed but I had already switched to 5 series saws so I continued to run them. I know this is against the holy grail of chainsaw people, but the 575/576/576AT saws WILL outcut a stock 372xp and they do it smoother. I only recently started playing with chainsaws in my spare time and I have rebuilt quite a few junkers from the saw pile.



Husky bought Redmax and used the technology (combined with what they already knew) to produce the 5 series line in an effort to capture more of the professional market under the Husky brand. It hasn't worked out for them and they have reintroduced the Redmax brand. You can argue all you want about which saw is best but Stihl dominates the professional market. US Forest service owns somewhere around 7,500 of them alone. I do like other brands and think a lot of the 562XP but all we run is Stihl because I can go anywhere from Virginia to Florida (which I do during hurricane season) and find a Stihl dealer. Can't say that for any other brand.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

DCW434 said:


> Husky bought Redmax and used the technology (combined with what they already knew) to produce the 5 series line in an effort to capture more of the professional market under the Husky brand. It hasn't worked out for them and they have reintroduced the Redmax brand. You can argue all you want about which saw is best but Stihl dominates the professional market. US Forest service owns somewhere around 7,500 of them alone. I do like other brands and think a lot of the 562XP but all we run is Stihl because I can go anywhere from Virginia to Florida (which I do during hurricane season) and find a Stihl dealer. Can't say that for any other brand.


This


----------



## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 1, 2018)

caffeine1fg said:


> They are a 47mm, two transfer port cylinder, on a 372 based bottom end. Mine a is small mount bar.
> They are too bulky and heavy for their class but have great throttle reponse and rev high as well. Most people just skip right to a 372.


Believe old 365 specials are 48mm. May be wrong.


----------



## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 1, 2018)

MGoBlue said:


> Challenge accepted...



That 365 just may be a match for that 441c. That 441c looked slow compared to my ported 390 in rotten oak. Any one else see it drop through last 2 inches of that log.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

Duce said:


> That 365 just may be a match for that 441c. That 441c looked slow compared to my ported 390 in rotten oak. Any one else see it drop through last 2 inches of that log.


A ported 390 at 88cc and at least 1hp more SHOULD whoop-up on a 70.7 cc 441c saw ! If it don’t then I’m a monkeys uncle !


----------



## FWANK WIZZO (Nov 1, 2018)

DUDES!! just found this super bad-ass video on somebodys youtube page. Black cat performance ms 362 with a muthafukkin razar chain!!!!


----------



## FWANK WIZZO (Nov 1, 2018)

FEEL THE POWA!!!!


----------



## Tallest (Nov 1, 2018)

Hahahahaha! That’s some epic footage


----------



## caffeine1fg (Nov 1, 2018)

Duce said:


> Believe old 365 specials are 48mm. May be wrong.



You are correct about 365s but I was referring to 362xp or the Jonsered equivalents. Lol


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 1, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> A ported 390 at 88cc and at least 1hp more SHOULD whoop-up on a 70.7 cc 441c saw ! If it don’t then I’m a monkeys uncle !View attachment 682712


But, you compared a 70+cc to 60's or am I mistaken?


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 1, 2018)

caffeine1fg said:


> You are correct about 365s but I was referring to 362xp or the Jonsered equivalents. Lol


Sorry about that, will try to pay closer attention.


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## caffeine1fg (Nov 1, 2018)

Duce said:


> Sorry about that, will try to pay closer attention.



No problem at all, these thread meander all over the place. At times it's hard to follow all the different conversations.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

Duce said:


> But, you compared a 70+cc to 60's or am I mistaken?


So what the hell has that got to do with the price of beans ? It’s all Snellings’ fault I tell ya


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 1, 2018)

Nothing, thought thread was about 60cc saws, wrong again. Carry on.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 1, 2018)

2lumbarleft said:


> It always amazes me how these discussions go off track - ha! The McCulloch endorsement really got me to laughing. I had to use those heavy beasts back in the day. I think they were made out of depleted uranium to get the weight up, just for sadistic purposes. I have used most of the saws discussed in this forum, and have come to appreciate reliability and good chains above all other qualities. I can't disagree about the superiority of the Husqvarna 562XP. I leave the 70 cc saw at home when I have access to my 562XP. The 365 is a great saw, just a de-tuned 372XP for the most part. But for a young guy saving a few bucks, I could easily recommend the Echo CS-620P. Muffler mod is easy-peazy. They aren't particularly light (about a 1/2 pound more than the 562XP), but start easy, every time, and have plenty of mid-range torque. It won't out cut the 562XP, but offers plenty of bang for the buck, and you don't have to worry about problems with computer processor chips, or tuning with a computer. I would certainly take the Echo CS-620P over the Stihl MS362. Regardless of model, for those who love them, it is hard to diss any Dolmar saws either.


Spot on about the weight difference, but you either have a better 562 then me or I have a better 620 then you, but with my 2 saws the 620 out cuts it, especially when the bar gets to 24"+ inches


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

I have to disagree with this, dealer support for husky is no issue at all in any state in the US, I quick Google search shows plenty of dealers in any state, as far as department of forestry, I am certain they go with the lowest bidder, that's how government contracts generally work, in my area all the tree service guys run huskys, because they got a better bid from them then Stihl, kinda the same thing, they sell the saws to these at cost and make it up on having the contracts written to make the companys run all husky oils, mix, bars and chains.


DCW434 said:


> Husky bought Redmax and used the technology (combined with what they already knew) to produce the 5 series line in an effort to capture more of the professional market under the Husky brand. It hasn't worked out for them and they have reintroduced the Redmax brand. You can argue all you want about which saw is best but Stihl dominates the professional market. US Forest service owns somewhere around 7,500 of them alone. I do like other brands and think a lot of the 562XP but all we run is Stihl because I can go anywhere from Virginia to Florida (which I do during hurricane season) and find a Stihl dealer. Can't say that for any other brand.


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## homemade (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I am certain they go with the lowest bidder, that's how government contracts generally work,




I work for our local highway Dept. The trend used to be low bidder wins, but it’s transitioning to a “contract goes to the medium bidder”. They are sick of buying cheep and paying for it later when it’s always broken.


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 1, 2018)

homemade said:


> I work for our local highway Dept. The trend used to be low bidder wins, but it’s transitioning to a “contract goes to the medium bidder”. They are sick of buying cheep and paying for it later when it’s always broken.


So, they must be buying Husqvarna.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

Duce said:


> So, they must be buying Husqvarna.


Remember..... STIHL rules ... and HUSKY drools! (Usually out the muffler !)


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 1, 2018)

Really you'd have to set more parameters for a better answer. Do you want to play with the saw or not? Are you horrible at tunning or not? Do you care about the warranty or dealer service or are you just begging for the thing to blow up so you have an excuse to mod the snot out of it? The beauty of this class saw is there are a good amount of saws out there that offer a tad bit of difference to make it perfect for you. I'd say the 4 players here us husky and stihl (of course) dolmar and echo. I have to leave two out cause I don't have one. But I do have the cs620 and the 562. Both are good saws for sure and both were purchased for good reasons. The 562 is the family plot saw and won't be touched (least I'm really trying to resist) and the 620 was purchased to be played with. As others have said the echo is heavier. Not enough to bother me, but I've ran an 288xp with a 28" bar all day long multiple times. Ive also competed in strongman and powerlifting, so my opinion is probably void on the weight difference. The echo is wider, they are both close to the same hight. Handling wise I like the echo better for felling while the Husky seems maybe a tad better for most else. Plastic is better (thicker) on the echo. For mods, let me say I've never played with a 562. What I can say is the echo offers an easy intake side mod that isn't available on the Husky. That's the filter spacer, about an hour of work and gives a good boost. Muffler mods are muffler mods and I'm sure both have the potential for the same gain. From a glance and having done the 620, I'd guess the echo is easier to perform. While we are at it, the echo is extremely easy to work on and fast. Other then being mostly torx, but once you have the bits it's probably the easiest saw I've ever worked on.
Personally, I wouldn't buy the 620 unless you are willing to pull the caps and tune. Seriously My saw came from a dealer (also a Stihl dealer) but they aren't going past the limiters and its simply too lean for break in. Again my opinion. Not a problem with the 562 obviously. Buyer beware. With my two examples (and before the echo got played with) the echo seemed to cut faster. Now I'm running 24" bars with stihl chains (same type) on both. On pine the difference wasn't noticeable, but on rock elm it certainly was. The echo didn't notice the difference between the two woods while the 562 did. Not much but it is what it is. My guess the difference will grow with a 28". If the Husky beats the echo it's with a smaller bar. I'm getting a 28" but now one saw is modified and the other isn't, so it won't matter. Now factor in price if it matters to you.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

So you are claiming well over a 60% gain on a saw? That I would like to see, I wonder if you believe your own BS?


Frank Rizzo said:


> hope ya got deep pockets big - boy ... don’t furget to send the 5 hun bet to this “neutral party” with your Ol bird legs special ... That’s me “work saw” ... me racers’ bout 60% quicker ... better stuff some xtra bananas in that muffled-mods-work-saw ... LMFAO


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 1, 2018)

Oh and also, bar choices are crap for the echo. But I'm running the Cannon adapter for stihl medium mount, it's cheap and pays for itself. Yes I had to match up the oil ports a bit.


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## homemade (Nov 1, 2018)

Actually our highway buys Stihl for the dealer network. It’s not on bid, chainsaws are a stocked item. Bigger things like dump trucks and so on go to bid. But at that rate, our supervisor who handles this, is a true sales men and politician, so he can convince the purchasing committee on what ever he wants and a bid is just a formality.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> So you are claiming well over a 60% gain on a saw? That I would like to see, I wonder if you believe your own BS?


It’s not unbelievable at all ! With the right flow-enhancements and chain speed it’s achievable on some models / some less ... a good hot - woods port plus a fast cutting chain at 12500-13000 rpm in the cut ... well YOU do the math ... I don’t know why you keep bringing up Brad Snelling- I’m not affiliated with him whatsoever!!!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

Here’s a gent (who used to be on the forum but left because .......???) He’s achieved 68-100% gains ... search for Timberwolf on this forum - very knowledgeable guy


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

I am calling complete BS, I guess you really do believe your own lies, sad Fabz truly sad


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I am calling complete BS, I guess you really do believe your own lies, sad Fabz truly sad


 Fine ... do your way/don’t believe it ! I don’t care !!!


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## DCW434 (Nov 1, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have to disagree with this, dealer support for husky is no issue at all in any state in the US, I quick Google search shows plenty of dealers in any state, as far as department of forestry, I am certain they go with the lowest bidder, that's how government contracts generally work, in my area all the tree service guys run huskys, because they got a better bid from them then Stihl, kinda the same thing, they sell the saws to these at cost and make it up on having the contracts written to make the companys run all husky oils, mix, bars and chains.



I do not have time when we're on assignment to stop and hunt for and then run 45 minutes one way to a Husky dealer. That doesn't happen to us running Stihl. But other crews who have decided to be a Husky team...Oh well. Maybe 30 miles doesn't matter to you but time is money and we can't afford to kill a day trying to find a part or a repair. I'm not arguing performance here, I think Husky makes some very capable saws, but dealer support - not so much. I guess it just all boils down to where you live and work. As I said before, make sure you have dealer support for whatever equipment you run.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 1, 2018)

I not arguing, just pointing out they have great dealer support as well, in my area we have more husky shop shops then Stihl, for me it boils down to cost of parts, I can repair a similar Husky for half the price of a Stihl, for example a 036 top end kit is north of $250 for a similar Husky 357 or even a 562 it's around 100.00.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 1, 2018)

DCW434 said:


> I do not have time when we're on assignment to stop and hunt for and then run 45 minutes one way to a Husky dealer. That doesn't happen to us running Stihl. But other crews who have decided to be a Husky team...Oh well. Maybe 30 miles doesn't matter to you but time is money and we can't afford to kill a day trying to find a part or a repair. I'm not arguing performance here, I think Husky makes some very capable saws, but dealer support - not so much. I guess it just all boils down to where you live and work. As I said before, make sure you have dealer support for whatever equipment you run.


People can easily cure that (if it's even an issue for them, some have close husky dealers) by keeping backup saws. Infact if I'm running a tree service I'd have a backup for the backup.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 1, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> People can easily cure that (if it's even an issue for them, some have close husky dealers) by keeping backup saws. Infact if I'm running a tree service I'd have a backup for the backup.


 Yah I agree ; trees services around my area have a minimum of 10 saws ... if you’re paying a climber ; groundsman ; insurance etc you really can’t AFFORD to have not have backups to the backup ! A guy cutting on his property can get away with 1 saw but a guy making his living wood lose his ass ! By the way most outfits I’ve worked with all run STIHL with a few Husqvarnas and Echo limbing saws thrown in


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## Tinman204 (Nov 1, 2018)

I've been looking for a 60cc saw for awhile. 

I normally run an ms260 when limbing in the bush and then use my 038 mag to drop the trees and block them up.

Thinking a strong 60cc could bridge the gap between the 2. Based on what I've read on this forum I just picked up a blown up 562xp to rebuild. I'm a stihl guy but I think the 562xp is probably the king of the 60s right now.


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## MountainHigh (Nov 1, 2018)

Photo is from some years back (my 562xp is a 2013 model), but the saw is balanced perfectly with this 20" Tsumura bar. I haven't felt the need to port it but have cut a hole in the top cover like the new versions, and have opened up the muffler some so it stays a little cooler, breathes a little better and the sound is pretty sweet.


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## August76 (Nov 2, 2018)

caffeine1fg said:


> They are a 47mm, two transfer port cylinder, on a 372 based bottom end. Mine a is small mount bar.
> They are too bulky and heavy for their class but have great throttle reponse and rev high as well. Most people just skip right to a 372.


I don't feel like my 372 X Torq really rubs all that high compared to a stihl like my 038 mag. It does seem to our rev the dolkita 6421
So do they rev higher than their husky counterpart


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## August76 (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah ... when/IF they run


The guy that I got my 372 from had a 562 and he said that it was a piece of junk and it would vapor lock all the time and it just wouldn't run for nothing he said it was absolutely crap after it warmed up. He worked for a professional tree service landscaping place I'm sure maybe you guys have heard of asplund they're big out here


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## belgian (Nov 2, 2018)

I just bought a NIB Stihl MS361 out of old dealer stock, just for the heck of it. the last of the good 60cc saws from Stihl.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

August76 said:


> The guy that I got my 372 from had a 562 and he said that it was a piece of junk and it would vapor lock all the time and it just wouldn't run for nothing he said it was absolutely crap after it warmed up. He worked for a professional tree service landscaping place I'm sure maybe you guys have heard of asplund they're big out here


Yah , all the newer “stratocharged” saws run lean and hot ... not a fan of the “controlled air-leak” system especially for longevity ... gimme a conventional muscle saw with an adjustable carb ... I’ve bucked lotsa chunks with my 660 20” bar and it’s STIHL chugging right along ! These new “EPA - friendly” saws don’t seem to possess the longevity of The older models - probably because of the lean conditions inherent in their design !


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , all the newer “stratocharged” saws run lean and hot ... not a fan of the “controlled air-leak” system especially for longevity ... gimme a conventional muscle saw with an adjustable carb ... I’ve bucked lotsa chunks with my 660 20” bar and it’s STIHL chugging right along ! These new “EPA - friendly” saws don’t seem to possess the longevity of The older models - probably because of the lean conditions inherent in their design !


What are you talking about, if anything my two 562's run on the fat side. Enjoy hearing it 4 stroke coming out of the cut. Friend with tree service has 3 that are main go to after 540's. Have you owned or ran one for any lenght of time?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

Duce said:


> What are you talking about, if anything my two 562's run on the fat side. Enjoy hearing it 4 stroke coming out of the cut. Friend with tree service has 3 that are main go to after 540's. Have you owned or ran one for any lenght of time?


Is your 562xp a standard adj carb ?


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

No 562 has ever had a adjustable carb, this shows what little you really know Fabz!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> No 562 has ever had a adjustable carb, this shows what little you really know Fabz!


They can be retrofitted there smarty-pants ! I think you should do some research before you start shooting from the hip !


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

No 562 I have ever heard of or seen has ever been retofitted with a standard carb!


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

All 562 came from the factory with autotune


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> All 562 came from the factory with autotune


Yes ... but they can be converted to an adj carb


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

There is nothing wrong with autotune, of the 2 major dealers I deal with, in 8 yrs they have had 1 autotune related issue, that saw software was erased, unsure how it happened, they figured it got close to a rare earth magnet.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

661cm with standard carb ... no mtronic which is the STIHL version of auto tune


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## August76 (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> There is nothing wrong with autotune, of the 2 major dealers I deal with, in 8 yrs they have had 1 autotune related issue, that saw software was erased, unsure how it happened, they figured it got close to a rare earth magnet.


What's the 064 huskstihl?


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## August76 (Nov 2, 2018)

By the way the dcs6421 has a catalytic converter in the stock Muffler I still haven't removed mine I imagine that it would probably run a lot better without it but it runs good enough to where I haven't even wanted to mess with it for a 64 CC saw it is absolutely an animal but I guess I have probably limited experience with saws but if you look and see what I own it's my favorite saw maybe a little over 60 CC's but it's pretty much in that class and anyone that's interested in one should be able to probably rent one at Home Depot to try it out and see if they like it


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

064 Stihl ported by Huskstihl, he is on the other side, Kenin is his actual name, he has my 385 right now


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> No 562 I have ever heard of or seen has ever been retofitted with a standard carb!


So therefore it cannot be done ? Lol


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Anything can be done, point is why would anyone want to go backwards? Autotune is set to run your saw perfectly, adjusting for temp, elevation and more, you think you can adjust a saw better then it was designed to be?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Anything can be done, point is why would anyone want to go backwards? Autotune is set to run your saw perfectly, adjusting for temp, elevation and more, you think you can adjust a saw better then it was designed to be?


Not necessarily “better” but I can make it more powerful and more importantly LAST longer ... the 562xp is a fine saw it’s just that it sucks having to buy 2 per year rather than 1 because they do not last more than 6 months of professional use ! And that’s the Fact Jack !


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)




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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

That is complete BS, plenty of loggers here have had them for 3 or more years, if you only knew half as much as you thought you did.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> That is complete BS, plenty of loggers here have had them for 3 or more years, if you only knew half as much as you thought you did.


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Not necessarily “better” but I can make it more powerful and more importantly LAST longer ... the 562xp is a fine saw it’s just that it sucks having to buy 2 per year rather than 1 because they do not last more than 6 months of professional use ! And that’s the Fact Jack !


Once again you do not know about 562's. Great lakes tree Service used his for over 2 years, no issues. You are just reinforcing your lack of knowledge on auto-tune. Do you own one, have owned one, ran one, apparently not.


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## CentaurG2 (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Not necessarily “better” but I can make it more powerful and more importantly LAST longer ... the 562xp is a fine saw it’s just that it sucks having to buy 2 per year rather than 1 because they do not last more than 6 months of professional use ! And that’s the Fact Jack !



I have a first generation 562xp still going strong. I don’t baby my huskys. Rum em hard and put them away wet and they always go. I cannot say the same about my stihls. I was at a local fair and they were selling 562xp with 20” bar for $579.00. For that price you can afford 2. One for each hand.


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## farmer steve (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , all the newer “stratocharged” saws run lean and hot ... not a fan of the “controlled air-leak” system especially for longevity ... gimme a conventional muscle saw with an adjustable carb ... I’ve bucked lotsa chunks with my 660 20” bar and it’s STIHL chugging right along ! These new “EPA - friendly” saws don’t seem to possess the longevity of The older models - probably because of the lean conditions inherent in their design !


so if they run hot and lean why haven't we heard of all the blown up saws ? I've chunked up lots of locust with my MS241 and 16" bar and prolly a 100 or so tanks of fuel cuttin in general with no issues.


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## farmer steve (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> There is nothing wrong with autotune, of the 2 major dealers I deal with, in 8 yrs they have had 1 autotune related issue, that saw software was erased, unsure how it happened, they figured it got close to a rare earth magnet.


 Dustin.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> so if they run hot and lean why haven't we heard of all the blown up saws ? I've chunked up lots of locust with my MS241 and 16" bar and prolly a 100 or so tanks of fuel cuttin in general with no issues.
> View attachment 683004


 I’ve got over 150 tanks on my 241c ... to answer your question about blown-up saws ... it’s because it’s not a husqvarna ! Lol


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Hi Steve, you have to excise the ignorance of Fabz here, there is a reason Randy banned him from the other site, and I could ask if he knows that the autotune on the 562 is made by Zama but he would just lie and when I told him that Zama is owned by Stihl he would act like he knew that already to, but we all know he doesn't know anything about a saws.


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## farmer steve (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I’ve got over 150 tanks on my 241c ... to answer your question about blown-up saws ... it’s because it’s not a husqvarna ! Lol



show me the facts on Stihl VS Husky saws blowing up. Looks at my sig dude. i'm a Stihl guy because of dealer support. but i'll run any saw . There are people here that need good info on all saws not somebody blowin up that one is better than the other. It all comes down to good dealer support and what feels good in the operators hands. Saws are a tool and tools wear out. If you don't take care of them they will break no matter what brand. i see pics of saws here and other forums that have about 10 lbs. of crud on hem and the OP wants to know why it don't run right.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Hi Steve, you have to excise the ignorance of Fabz here, there is a reason Randy banned him from the other site, and I could ask if he knows that the autotune on the 562 is made by Zama but he would just lie and when I told him that Zama is owned by Stihl he would act like he knew that already to, but we all know he doesn't know anything about a saws.


Well you can tell ol ‘ bird legs to go whistle-Dixie ... thanks for revealing your true intentions ! Kinda smelled like bad-gas from the onset ! LMFAO


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> show me the facts on Stihl VS Husky saws blowing up. Looks at my sig dude. i'm a Stihl guy because of dealer support. but i'll run any saw . There are people here that need good info on all saws not somebody blowin up that one is better than the other. It all comes down to good dealer support and what feels good in the operators hands. Saws are a tool and tools wear out. If you don't take care of them they will break no matter what brand. i see pics of saws here and other forums that have about 10 lbs. of crud on hem and the OP wants to know why it don't run right.


Agreed


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## farmer steve (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Hi Steve, you have to excise the ignorance of Fabz here, there is a reason Randy banned him from the other site, and I could ask if he knows that the autotune on the 562 is made by Zama but he would just lie and when I told him that Zama is owned by Stihl he would act like he knew that already to, but we all know he doesn't know anything about a saws.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Fabz is just a hack, plain and simple, he can't contribute anything knowledgeable because he doesn't know anything, it is ok, I have educated others in the past and I am confident with a lot of hard work, he might even be able to figure out the on/off switch, some day.


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## holeycow (Nov 2, 2018)

I wish you guys talked in hours used, not years or seasons or whatever other useless timelines speak goes on.

How many hours of general pro forestry work does one of these modern saws last before top end rebuild? Bottom end rebuild? How many hours between piston changes? What is the design life of the machine? What are manufacturer recommended intervals between minor amd major maintenances?

I realize usage type determines much of this, but there are somewhat standards or expected life, or what?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)




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## farmer steve (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Well you can tell ol ‘ bird legs to go whistle-Dixie ... thanks for revealing your true intentions !  Kinda smelled like bad-gas from the onset ! LMFAO



Readin your posts i think you been sniffin bad gas for a while.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Neat feature on the auttune when plugged in it gives how many hours, min and sec it has been ran


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I wish you guys talked in hours used, not years or seasons or whatever other useless timelines speak goes on.
> 
> How many hours of general pro forestry work does one of these modern saws last before top end rebuild? Bottom end rebuild? How many hours between piston changes? What is the design life of the machine? What are manufacturer recommended intervals between minor amd major maintenances?
> 
> I realize usage type determines much of this, but there are somewhat standards or expected life, or what?


The newer Strato-saws run leaner and hotter than the old and simply will not last as long ! Fuel and mix oil is CRITICAL with these saws much more so than previous models ... sure they use 20% less fuel and produce 60% less emissions - how did they do it ? I will post STIHL version and let Dustin explain to the forum how it operates as according to him in just a hack !


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

here it is folks ... now maybe Dustin can extrapolate on its virtues !


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

You said it, your just a hack, I agree.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> Readin your posts i think you been sniffin bad gas for a while.


Ol bird legs gives me bad gas !


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## Huntaholic (Nov 2, 2018)

Holeycow said the same thing Im fixing to, just in a different way. How many of you loyal fanboys ACTUALLY USE A SAW TO MAKE A LIVING, TO KEEP A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD AND YOUR FAMILY FED??? I do. Stihl vs Husky will always be a debate. I use what works best for ME. As of right now, I own 3 stihls and 11 husqvarnas. HUSQVARNA is what keeps me fed and clothed. I got the stihls just to give them an honest comparision. I typically get at least 5 years out of a saw before a major teardown. I don't keep up with the hours but I normally move around 1.5 MILLION ft of timber a year. Now lets get to that major teardown part: buy me an OEM top end for a stihl, how much is it? I can get a OEM husky from my dealer for 150 bucks. Now lets crush one: fuel tank for husky OEM is 100 bucks. Starter assembly is around 50. Handle bars are 50. The only way stihl can compete with husky is if you get china parts!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You said it, your just a hack, I agree.


I didn’t say it ; YOU did ... and I don’t agree ! Now kindly explain how the Strato engine works ... cmon kid you’re on stage with the microphone on and spotlight shining bright ! Please don’t disappoint us !


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 2, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


>



 Does this have to do with auto-tune or m-tronic? It's about the piston pin.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

Duce said:


> Does this have to do with auto-tune or m-tronic? It's about the piston pin.


Right ! At least someone is paying attention !!! Lol


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Stratto saws just don't push out any left over fuel after ignition, they pull the leftover fuel back in and it gets used, that's what makes them more epa friendly and more efficient, there is no wasted fuel in a stratto design. All companies are moving toward these type of saws to meet the new guidelines that will change in 2021


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Stratto saws just don't push out any left over fuel after ignition, they pull the leftover fuel back in and it gets used, that's what makes them more epa friendly and more efficient, there is no wasted fuel in a stratto design. All companies are moving toward these type of saws to meet the new guidelines that will change in 2021


Ah .... nope ! Watch the video again and pay close attention to the arrows ! Lol


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Fabz your ineptitude never ceases.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Fabz your ineptitude never ceases.


Yah , ok pal ... ya failed the test ! Cya !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

I am not going anywhere, you opinion doesn't matter to me and well anyone else who can read.


----------



## August76 (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> 064 Stihl ported by Huskstihl, he is on the other side, Kenin is his actual name, he has my 385 right now


Ok. I see. Is that the old version of the ms661?


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Way older, 85cc they still have one of the best power to weight ratios there is


----------



## ncfarmboy (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> No 562 I have ever heard of or seen has ever been retofitted with a standard carb!



EHP/Ed Heard put a RWJ-4 on a 562 several years ago. He also used a 562 for falling. That saw (std. AT) ported has cut over 2 million bd. ft.
Shep


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

ncfarmboy said:


> EHP/Ed Heard put a RWJ-4 on a 562 several years ago. He also used a 562 for falling. That saw (std. AT) ported has cut over 2 million bd. ft.
> Shep


Aw cmon - you’re giving away all the secrets ! Lol


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

ncfarmboy said:


> EHP/Ed Heard put a RWJ-4 on a 562 several years ago. He also used a 562 for falling. That saw (std. AT) ported has cut over 2 million bd. ft.
> Shep


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

What does a 361 have to do with a 562?


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Just for the record remind me which class Stihl wins with regularity in racing? 3cube 346xp, 4 cube 365, 5 cube 281, 6 cube 394/395


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

Ignorance can be educated ... crazy can be medicated ... there is no cure for stupid


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Since you are all the above.....


----------



## Colt Marlington (Nov 2, 2018)




----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

Colt Marlington said:


>


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)




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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Fabz, legend in his own mind. To many you tube videos.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Fabz, legend in his own mind. To many you tube videos.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Wow you know how to insert a meme, good for you.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

Narcissistic personality disorder brought a knife to a gunfight !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 2, 2018)

Knowledge is greater then a know it all attitude


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 2, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Knowledge is greater then a know it all attitude


I agree ! There is hope for you after all !!!


----------



## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

So I think this 60cc awesomest saw battle has been narrowed down to Stihl ms362 vs Husky 562xp??

Or what?

I’m starting to get confused..


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

I think the 562 was the clear winner.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> So I think this 60cc awesomest saw battle has been narrowed down to Stihl ms362 vs Husky 562xp??
> 
> Or what?
> 
> I’m starting to get confused..


All boils down to personal preference imho ... I prefer STIHL so I’m partial to the 362c ... with some mods they perk up purty-good ! 562xp is a fine saw ... when/if they run lol


----------



## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

Huh. After all this it turns into Husky vs Stihl.

All is right with the thread.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Judging my opinion from those who have ran booth models.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Huh. After all this it turns into Husky vs Stihl.
> 
> All is right with the thread.


Thank God almighty !!!


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

I will give Stihl credit when they get it right, I am on the record saying the 462 is gonna be a great selling saw, to me the 362 misses the mark. 261 also seems to be a great saw, 241 would sell like crazy if it wasn't 50.00 more for a 261.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I will give Stihl credit when they get it right, I am on the record saying the 462 is gonna be a great selling saw, to me the 362 misses the mark. 261 also seems to be a great saw, 241 would sell like crazy if it wasn't 50.00 more for a 261.


The 462 will replace more than the 441c and 461 (hint : 562xp) In fact it SHOULD be in this discussion as it weighs less than a 562xp but has 1.3 hp more !


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

You have to take price into account as well, the only knock on the 462 is will it hold up? So far in Europe several loggers have traded them.in less then 6 months old for 572s, durability may be it's Achilles heel, time will tell. Too early to judge them yet for me, will I pay 1200.00 for a 72cc saw? Never


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

I likey ported 461 !!!


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## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

I like my cinder block of an oe ms362. Many do. It is a smooooth Cadillac of a saw. A worthy adversary of the mighty 562xp. 

There’s no current saws in the same room.

Imo


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

I like a ported 2171, or 372, but a 7910 is still the king of that class to me


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You have to take price into account as well, the only knock on the 462 is will it hold up? So far in Europe several loggers have traded them.in less then 6 months old for 572s, durability may be it's Achilles heel, time will tell. Too early to judge them yet for me, will I pay 1200.00 for a 72cc saw? Never


Available in Canada Nov 1 usd $1029 ... local STIHL emailed me today ... Jan/Feb USA price starts at $1050


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I like a ported 2171, or 372, but a 7910 is still the king of that class to me


Ported 461 will stomp either “husky” ... the 7910 won’t hold up to professional use


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Still to much for me, I like fixing broken stuff, but there price is getting better.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

7910 and 372 have put a lot of wood on the ground, there great saws, I would take either over a 461 and I have. I have sold 3 461s kept the 7910s, I would alsay most who have ran booth would agree


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## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

I don’t believe that is correct. These likes and dislikes are regional. Lots of guys run 372’s, lots of guys run 461’s

Potatoe potato


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> 7910 and 372 have put a lot of wood on the ground, there great saws, I would take either over a 461 and I have. I have sold 3 461s kept the 7910s, I would alsay most who have ran booth would agree


You couldn’t GIVE me a 372xtra turd ! 7910 is a thoroughbred saw ... won’t hack it day in day out ... ported 461R is where it’s at in my book but to each his own !


----------



## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

There are others that would agree on the 7900..

Hey!! You guys tricked me. This is a 60cc thread.

Out.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> There are others that would agree on the 7900..
> 
> Hey!! You guys tricked me. This is a 60cc thread.
> 
> Out.


Roger that ! Out


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Your just a Stihl fanboy. I am objective, I have ran all the saws listed. I try and be fair and give the goods and bads of booth, 461 stock lacks power to me for the weight.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)




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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Your just a Husky fanboy. I am objective, I have ran all the saws listed. I try and be fair and give the goods and bads of booth, 461 portrd has too much power to me for the weight.


There fixed it for ya !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Poor filtration, awful oiler output, I could go on


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

I wonder where Stihl got the idea from for air injection from for there new 462????


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Poor filtration, awful oiler output, I could go on


 ported
Max - Flow ; unlimited coil ; H.O. Oiler/Dogs / big boy clutch cover !!! That’s what I run - 25+ tanks before a filter swap and NO fines in carb throat .... nothing !!! Cut up face-cord 5 mins


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

So you have to spend another 200.00+ to make it a functional saw, while I just take a husky or Dolmar off the shelf and fuel it.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> So you have to spend another 200.00+ to make it a functional saw, while I just take a husky or Dolmar off the shelf and fuel it.


Filter is 59.99 ; coil is 179.99 ; HO Oiler ; dogs and big boy cover and wrap handle is additional + porting (less if you have knowledge to do yourself) what you end up with is a saw that’ll produce prodigious amounts of wood ! If you doing it to make $ the mods are paid for in a few days anyway


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

SMH


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Point is you shouldn't have to replace parts on a new saw to make it be able to do what is supposed to be designed to do, especially a saw that already costs around $1000.00


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Point is you shouldn't have to replace parts on a new saw to make it be able to do what is supposed to be designed to do, especially a saw that already costs around $1000.00


Well then start your own company and take all the best features from each brand and make the Dustin 1000 ... I guarantee you will be quite wealthy ! Gotta do Treework in am - I’m out


----------



## caffeine1fg (Nov 3, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Available in Canada Nov 1 usd $1029 ... local STIHL emailed me today ... Jan/Feb USA price starts at $1050



https://en.stihl.ca/STIHL-Products/...-saws-for-forestry/279876-130/MS-462-C-M.aspx

Are you talking $1029 Usd?
They are $1399 Cad and up, so that is pretty accurate. Just for reference I can get a Makita 7901 pho for a little over $900 plus tax. An x-torq from the local dealer is between $1000-1100 out the door. Canadian dollars of course.


----------



## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> That is complete BS, plenty of loggers here have had them for 3 or more years, if you only knew half as much as you thought you did.


Are you confusing loggers with landscapers with rakes and curved shaft Echo weed wackers on a trailer being pulled behind a Ford Explorer?


----------



## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> show me the facts on Stihl VS Husky saws blowing up. Looks at my sig dude. i'm a Stihl guy because of dealer support. but i'll run any saw . There are people here that need good info on all saws not somebody blowin up that one is better than the other. It all comes down to good dealer support and what feels good in the operators hands. Saws are a tool and tools wear out. If you don't take care of them they will break no matter what brand. i see pics of saws here and other forums that have about 10 lbs. of crud on hem and the OP wants to know why it don't run right.


I don't know what's wrong with it... I forgot to put oil in the gas for Just one tank ...it couldn't possibly have burned up LOL


----------



## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> So I think this 60cc awesomest saw battle has been narrowed down to Stihl ms362 vs Husky 562xp??
> 
> Or what?
> 
> I’m starting to get confused..


Nope just go get a dolmar and call it a day then you won't have to worry about which of the other two are better.


----------



## farmer steve (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Huh. After all this it turns into Husky vs Stihl.
> 
> All is right with the thread.


you forgot Echo.


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## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> Are you confusing loggers with landscapers with rakes and curved shaft Echo weed wackers on a trailer being pulled behind a Ford Explorer?



That confusion abounds


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## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> Nope just go get a dolmar and call it a day then you won't have to worry about which of the other two are better.



I have two Dolmars. I don’t like their current 60cc choice


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## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> you forgot Echo.



Who?

Oh right; they who don’t play in the big woods.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 3, 2018)

Oh good grief! How did we go from a 60cc saw discussion to talking about an ms461 being the top dog of whatever???? I DO own a 461, had it 6 months or so and its been a POS! Top end, built. Bottom end, built. Meanwhile the 576xp it does duty with just keeps cutting logs. And btw, even when its right, the 461 wont cut with the 576 even though the 576 is giving up a little displacement to the obese stihl.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Oh good grief! How did we go from a 60cc saw discussion to talking about an ms461 being the top dog of whatever???? I DO own a 461, had it 6 months or so and its been a POS! Top end, built. Bottom end, built. Meanwhile the 576xp it does duty with just keeps cutting logs. And btw, even when its right, the 461 wont cut with the 576 even though the 576 is giving up a little displacement to the obese stihl.


Yah , 461s are dogs in stock trim ... with mods they really come alive and turn into wood-slayers !


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I wonder where Stihl got the idea from for air injection from for there new 462????


Uh , see 441c


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

7910 sees lots of logger use in my area, luckily we have a few good dealers for multiple brands, and old Fabz is making my point for me, if I have to spend additional $ on top of the most expensive saw in the class to make it perform with the less expensive saws why even consider a 461? Unless your just a Stihl fan boy, which he obviously is, other companies build a better saw for less, pretty simple. Even my Stihl buddies will admit the 461 is overrated


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Yes and husky has had air injection since the 80s


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> 7910 sees lots of logger use in my area, luckily we have a few good dealers for multiple brands, and old Fabz is making my point for me, if I have to spend additional $ on top of the most expensive saw in the class to make it perform with the less expensive saws why even consider a 461? Unless your just a Stihl fan boy, which he obviously is, other companies build a better saw for less, pretty simple. Even my Stihl buddies will admit the 461 is overrated


Yah , if you are a saw “collector” then do what works for you ... I on the other hand , use the saws for gain and to heat me dwelling ... I have absolutely NO problem investing $1500 in a tool that’s going to pay for itself 20 times over during its lifespan ... We all have our own opinions Dustin ; and we are entitled to them ... we are not however entitled to our own “facts”


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Facts are facts, other companies build a superior saw, FACT!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Facts are facts, other companies build a superior saw, FACT!


Ok ... I’m looking for an 064


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

For the power to weight that's a great choice, I have 3, I sell you one, ported or stock?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> For the power to weight that's a great choice, I have 3, I sell you one, ported or stock?


Talk to me chief ... got pics ; vids ? Let’s talk prices


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 3, 2018)

Out currently, send me a PM


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> For the power to weight that's a great choice, I have 3, I sell you one, ported or stock?


I’m lookin to buy bigger saw ... 064 stock or ported don’t matter - I can mod em myself ... u gots pics ? Vids of saw(s) in action ? I got $ in hand - was lookin at a 288 for $180 but sold from under me


----------



## Skeans (Nov 3, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> View attachment 682992
> View attachment 682992
> View attachment 682992










same tree pretty much on break in day of that 562 pulling a 32 if memory serves it was 5.5x5’ cedar



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 3, 2018)

He will have something smart to say!


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## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I have two Dolmars. I don’t like their current 60cc choice


Skip the 6100 get the 6421 and if you don't like it slap the 79cc jug and piston it.


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## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Ported 461 will stomp either “husky” ... the 7910 won’t hold up to professional use


How would you know? Do you own one? Have you used one?


----------



## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I don’t believe that is correct. These likes and dislikes are regional. Lots of guys run 372’s, lots of guys run 461’s
> 
> Potatoe potato


It really is. West coast is stihl country. I grew up in the Pacific northwest when Scott paper and logging was big. They all ran stihl except guys who moved here from east coast back then. I'm not a logger. My experience is just firewood. Small side business. Price is a major factor for any of us who aren't pros.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> How would you know? Do you own one? Have you used one?


No and yes


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## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> West coast is Stihl country .....Price is a major factor for any of us who aren't pros.



Yes and yes


----------



## damifino (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> Price is a major factor for any of us who aren't pros.


I agree. Is a saw a hot rod EGO toy or is it a dependable Tool. What are you looking for? If you can afford both, great. Be smart my friends.


----------



## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> Skip the 6100 get the 6421 and if you don't like it slap the 79cc jug and piston it.



I’ll skip them all, most likely.

I’ll just keep my eye out for a 372. Or a 440.

I’ve got 60cc covered.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I’ll skip them all, most likely.
> 
> I’ll just keep my eye out for a 372. Or a 440.
> 
> I’ve got 60cc covered.


The older 372 ... pre xtra torque is a good saw ... the 044/440 can be made to run very strong with the right modifications ... plus you can run the hole shot filter on it ! Cut all day with no debris getting into the firing chamber !!!


----------



## hseII (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have to disagree with this, dealer support for husky is no issue at all in any state in the US, I quick Google search shows plenty of dealers in any state, as far as department of forestry, I am certain they go with the lowest bidder, that's how government contracts generally work, in my area all the tree service guys run huskys, because they got a better bid from them then Stihl, kinda the same thing, they sell the saws to these at cost and make it up on having the contracts written to make the companys run all husky oils, mix, bars and chains.



There’s a reason MS461s are used extensively: reliability.

Autotune doesn’t live well in smoke. 

What he said was spot on.

Talk to the FS guys & you will find out he’s for real.

A pallet of MS461R cost more than a pallet of 562xp. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## hseII (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> So you are claiming well over a 60% gain on a saw? That I would like to see, I wonder if you believe your own BS?



Are You really arguing with Fables? 

FABZ.

Black Cat bolt on powa performance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## hseII (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Fabz is just a hack, plain and simple, he can't contribute anything knowledgeable because he doesn't know anything, it is ok, I have educated others in the past and I am confident with a lot of hard work, he might even be able to figure out the on/off switch, some day.



You’ll do better moving Stone Mountain with a Bronco to Panama City.


----------



## hseII (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> So I think this 60cc awesomest saw battle has been narrowed down to Stihl ms362 vs Husky 562xp??
> 
> Or what?
> 
> I’m starting to get confused..



And then the Echo 620 & Dolly Mara 6100 stuck them both & took all their lunch money. 

Till the MS362 2.0 was figured out by a certain overall wearing Monkey. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Deleted member 149229 (Nov 3, 2018)




----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> Are You really arguing with Fables?
> 
> FABZ.
> 
> ...


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> You’ll do better moving Stone Mountain with a Bronco to Panama City.


----------



## Skeans (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> It really is. West coast is stihl country. I grew up in the Pacific northwest when Scott paper and logging was big. They all ran stihl except guys who moved here from east coast back then. I'm not a logger. My experience is just firewood. Small side business. Price is a major factor for any of us who aren't pros.



It depends on where in the PNW, where I am it’s 50/50 split because of dealers. A lot of the guys run both or have both. Just a side thought a lot hand fallers are becoming extinct with all the tethering going on unless you’re in big wood or something to steep which isn’t much it’s pretty impressive what they can cut with a machine now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## holeycow (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> And then the Echo 620 & Dolly Mara 6100 stuck them both & took all their lunch money.
> 
> Till the MS362 2.0 was figured out by a certain overall wearing Monkey.
> 
> ...



Ok, so now we must be talkin about awesomest king of modified 60cc cookie cutters?


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 3, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I’m lookin to buy bigger saw ... 064 stock or ported don’t matter - I can mod em myself ... u gots pics ? Vids of saw(s) in action ? I got $ in hand - was lookin at a 288 for $180 but sold from under me


A 288 with mods will not disappoint. Probably wouldn't disappoint without mods either


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 3, 2018)

Skeans said:


> same tree pretty much on break in day of that 562 pulling a 32 if memory serves it was 5.5x5’ cedar
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK, and? Cs620 will also pull a 32". Most likely better.


----------



## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I’ll skip them all, most likely.
> 
> I’ll just keep my eye out for a 372. Or a 440.
> 
> I’ve got 60cc covered.


I like my 6410 more than my 372xp. But better than my 038 mag . A 440 wouldn't be alot better than a 038 and probably not a good as the husky but again it depends on deals and prices. I never buy new. And love collecting things. Cad


----------



## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> OK, and? Cs620 will also pull a 32". Most likely better.


Echo reminds me of Fisher Price toys don't ask me why I'm not trying to be mean but I just always think of Fisher Price When I See Echo stuff


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 3, 2018)

August76 said:


> Echo reminds me of Fisher Price toys don't ask me why I'm not trying to be mean but I just always think of Fisher Price When I See Echo stuff


The echo has thicker plastic among other things and notice how most echo guys don't cry over dealer support like stihl guys? Cause they don't need it. My favorite saw is still my worked 288xp and the family 562 isn't bad at all. No way on gods earth will the 562 out perform the 620 with bars on the long side. Suck it up buttercup, brand loyalty won't change that.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> Are You really arguing with Fables?
> 
> FABZ.
> 
> ...


Don’t underestimate the Black Cat !


----------



## Skeans (Nov 3, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> The echo has thicker plastic among other things and notice how most echo guys don't cry over dealer support like stihl guys? Cause they don't need it. My favorite saw is still my worked 288xp and the family 562 isn't bad at all. No way on gods earth will the 562 out perform the 620 with bars on the long side. Suck it up buttercup, brand loyalty won't change that.



We use to sell echo but have always used Husky from the 188 days one for cutting timber, I’ve always liked the way they’ve felt myself. All the time I’ve cut timber out here I don’t think I’ve seen a faller use an echo not to say some haven’t it’s just rare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 3, 2018)

Skeans said:


> We use to sell echo but have always used Husky from the 188 days one for cutting timber, I’ve always liked the way they’ve felt myself. All the time I’ve cut timber out here I don’t think I’ve seen a faller use an echo not to say some haven’t it’s just rare.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed, I haven't seen one either. But it never seemed to be their focus. Their newer saws are a nice change to say the least. They have always made fairly durable saws in their pro lines, but now they are also powerful. To simply assume they can't produce a competitive saw because they didn't in the past is funny. Saws aren't all the complicated, if Elon musk wanted to produce the best saw ever tomorrow he would only have to throw money at it to do so. Seriously these things aren't magic and I'd start to expect other companies throwing gems into the mix in the near future.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> And then the Echo 620 & Dolly Mara 6100 stuck them both & took all their lunch money.
> 
> Till the MS362 2.0 was figured out by a certain overall wearing Monkey.
> 
> ...


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 3, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Knowledge is greater then a know it all attitude



It sure is.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> A 288 with mods will not disappoint. Probably wouldn't disappoint without mods either


Lookin like another 288xp comin down the pipe ... pho 325


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> And then the Echo 620 & Dolly Mara 6100 stuck them both & took all their lunch money.
> 
> Till the MS362 2.0 was figured out by a certain overall wearing Monkey.
> 
> ...


Who ? Ol bird legs ? Lotsa Monkeys wear overalls !!!


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## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> The echo has thicker plastic among other things and notice how most echo guys don't cry over dealer support like stihl guys? Cause they don't need it. My favorite saw is still my worked 288xp and the family 562 isn't bad at all. No way on gods earth will the 562 out perform the 620 with bars on the long side. Suck it up buttercup, brand loyalty won't change that.


I'm certainly not brand loyal. Dealer support? What's that? I probably will never buy a saw new I'll probably never have to worry about it and I fix my own stuff I rebuilt my 03 8 which had a burned-up piston. Nothing special but I certainly don't need dealer support I don't feel like getting butt ****ed by the Stihl dealer or the Husky dealer do you think Home Depot will fix my broken Echo haha
I have old echo cs60s super with a 26 inch oregon bar on it...it doesn't run though lol


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Agreed, I haven't seen one either. But it never seemed to be their focus. Their newer saws are a nice change to say the least. They have always made fairly durable saws in their pro lines, but now they are also powerful. To simply assume they can't produce a competitive saw because they didn't in the past is funny. Saws aren't all the complicated, if Elon musk wanted to produce the best saw ever tomorrow he would only have to throw money at it to do so. Seriously these things aren't majic and I'd start to expect other companies throwing gems into the mix in the near future.


Yah Elon Musk couldn’t build a saw to save his life ! Look at Tesla ; the Boring company; solar city ... he needs to put down the bong !


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## aokpops (Nov 3, 2018)

A 60 cc saw is like a char half truck half car .


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## hseII (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Ok, so now we must be talkin about awesomest king of modified 60cc cookie cutters?



I eat cookies & can’t race for chit so I don’t give a flip about 2/10s of a second on a Can’t Stand. 

2 out of 17 told me what I already knew concerning the last batch of 562s that went to Cottle lane. 

As in 2 of the 17 brand new units that all rode together had to have their carbs sent back because they were faulty upon delivery.

Do the math: Come to find out it’s a reoccurring problem. 

2/10 or 2 seconds faster on a Can’t Stand don’t mean nothing if the saw don’t start or restart.

Rule 1 of a gunfight- bring a reliable gun.

It’s the same thing with using a saw, whether it be a Feller, an Arborist, or a Firewood hack in New York filming with a go pro live from his Mama’s basement: if it doesn’t reliably start, the rest of it don’t even amount to a FABZ story.


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## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

Skeans said:


> It depends on where in the PNW, where I am it’s 50/50 split because of dealers. A lot of the guys run both or have both. Just a side thought a lot hand fallers are becoming extinct with all the tethering going on unless you’re in big wood or something to steep which isn’t much it’s pretty impressive what they can cut with a machine now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have both. My 372 is almost new so I don't use it. Haha. So it's my back up saws back up


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## hseII (Nov 3, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Ok, so now we must be talkin about awesomest king of modified 60cc cookie cutters?



Plus we need some of your Bag Pics to confirm the Validity of your title. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## August76 (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> I eat cookies & can’t race for chit so I don’t give a flip about 2/10s of a second on a Can’t Stand.
> 
> 2 out of 17 told me what I already knew concerning the last batch of 562s that went to Cottle lane.
> 
> ...


 when I bought my 372xp from the guy he had a 562 and I asked him about it and he told me you don't want to buy this thing it's no good he wasn't asking that much money for it either I think like $150


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 3, 2018)

hseII said:


> I eat cookies & can’t race for chit so I don’t give a flip about 2/10s of a second on a Can’t Stand.
> 
> 2 out of 17 told me what I already knew concerning the last batch of 562s that went to Cottle lane.
> 
> ...


fixed !


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Bag pics?

I am slow,I don’t get it?


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

August76 said:


> I have both. My 372 is almost new so I don't use it. Haha. So it's my back up saws back up



It seems I do the same with my ms362. It comes out when I want to run a Cadillac.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

August76 said:


> I'm certainly not brand loyal. Dealer support? What's that? I probably will never buy a saw new I'll probably never have to worry about it and I fix my own stuff I rebuilt my 03 8 which had a burned-up piston. Nothing special but I certainly don't need dealer support I don't feel like getting butt ****ed by the Stihl dealer or the Husky dealer do you think Home Depot will fix my broken Echo haha
> I have old echo cs60s super with a 26 inch oregon bar on it...it doesn't run though lol



Dealer support for a pro who needs to get to work is about parts on hand and availability of all accessories, including safety gear in odd sizes. It’s not necessarily about fixing saws.

Any decent saw shop should be able to get the boys out the door with EVERYTHING they need to work. It helps a lot when somebody at the shop is an ex-sawhand.

How many Echo “shops” have that capability?


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> We use to sell echo but have always used Husky from the 188 days one for cutting timber, I’ve always liked the way they’ve felt myself. All the time I’ve cut timber out here I don’t think I’ve seen a faller use an echo not to say some haven’t it’s just rare.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I’ve never seen an echo on a job since I started working in the woods in 1982. Not one. Ever. They have NO presence in the bush. Which obviously means they can’t possibly be King. The king rules all of his domain.

That’s why, in my mind there are only two companies who contend for 60cc king.

The Dolmar 6100 is the oddest feeling saw I have ever held. It might run nice (IDK), but it is excessively wide, the balance is weird and the front handle’s bends are too sharp for a proper 60cc saw (which is the upper end of a pure limbing/light bucking saw). A 60cc saw is supposed to handle, at the very least. That’s where the Husky comes in...

Maybe the problem is that I was holding green 6100’s? Do green saws feel funny?


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)




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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)




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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

hseII said:


> I eat cookies & can’t race for chit so I don’t give a flip about 2/10s of a second on a Can’t Stand.
> 
> 2 out of 17 told me what I already knew concerning the last batch of 562s that went to Cottle lane.
> 
> ...


 so the “almighty 562xp” has a nearly 12% failure rate (carb) straight from the factory? That’s not good ... not good at all ... great saw ... when/IF they run


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## Franny K (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> .....
> That’s why, in my mind there are only two companies who contend for 60cc king.
> 
> The Dolmar 6100 is the oddest feeling saw I have ever held. It might run nice (IDK), but it is excessively wide, the balance is weird and the front handle’s bends are too sharp for a proper 60cc saw (which is the upper end of a pure limbing/light bucking saw). A 60cc saw is supposed to handle, at the very least. That’s where the Husky comes in...
> ....


 for addressing the king issue.

Dolmar markets or did market when I got my 6100 that model as a felling and de-branching saw.


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## Johnmn (Nov 4, 2018)

To the OP if your still reading this!
I have ran a lot of 60cc saws and more than just at a gtg! I log in the winter and run 3 saws a day usually and run 3-5 tanks through each daily. The 562 is impressive but I have had the sour taste put in my mouth. The Dolmar 6100 is stronger than the 362 and slightly slower than the 562, but it's built to last IMO! 
In my experience the dolmars hold up just fine to everyday cutting, Stihl build quality with husky performance! I'm guessing guys that have issues breakings saws could break any brand of saw!


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## Cliff R (Nov 4, 2018)

At one time or another I've ran all the saws listed by the OP except for the 6421. So my comments are based on direct experience not regurgitating something I read someplace.

Echo hit the 60cc market pretty hard, CS-590, CS-600P and CS-620. Leaving my brand loyalty behind and the fact that I work on power equipment for a living my vote for the best 60cc offering currently available is the CS-620PW. It may not be the most powerful as I've not timed tested it against any of the competition, but power to weight is excellent, ergonomics, smooth/broad/flat power curve, runs longer bars with good authority (tested it clear to 30"), fuel efficient and to date 100 percent dead solid reliable. I'd also add that the CS-620PW is very easy to work on, and one can remove the carburetor in less time than it took to type this. 

For the average guy who needs a dead solid reliable 60cc offering and under $400 to spend get a CS-590. It sports many of the features of the Pro versions and a very well made saw. Just remove the limiters on the mixture screws, grind off the tabs, put them back on and give it some fuel. I like to remove some of the deflector on the muffler as well. Nothing out there in that CC range will cut as well for the money.

The "brand loyalty" thing will never let any Echo saw join the ranks with the commercial industry so don't expect to see them on too many job sites. I've introduced quite a few to folks in this area who do tree removal and/or cut a lot of tops, firewood, outdoor boilers for heating, etc, and to date they absolutely LOVE the CS-590 as a daily firewood saw.

One of my customers uses one as a ground saw for his crew, over 2 years now getting totally abused on a daily basis and working just fine.

Stihl and Husqvarna offer excellent 60cc Pro saws so they have the market covered pretty well and their offerings are good enough to keep out intruders. As for the "king", it will be one of those and not an Echo or any other "off brands".....IMHO......Cliff


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

Cliff R said:


> but power to weight is excellent, ergonomics, smooth/broad/flat power curve, runs longer bars with good authority (tested it clear to 30"), fuel efficient and to date 100 percent dead solid reliable. I'd also add that the CS-620PW is very easy to work on, and one can remove the carburetor in less time than it took to type this.



I've sold a lot of Echo saws to customers that I let run the,, most were running Stihl and Husky pro models and some lower level saws. . They sell themselves. Steve


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Because they are generally inexpensive.


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

No because when tuned right they cut good, handle great and have a wide power band, and yes they are the best value saw made. Steve


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

And they have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY!

Except when you tune them to run.

Oh well.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah Elon Musk couldn’t build a saw to save his life ! Look at Tesla ; the Boring company; solar city ... he needs to put down the bong ![/QU





Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah Elon Musk couldn’t build a saw to save his life ! Look at Tesla ; the Boring company; solar city ... he needs to put down the bong !


You are missing the point. A chainsaw (even modern ones) are simplistic tools. Two stroke motor, clutch, chain, oiler. Ad a few associated parts. Chainsaws haven't really changed, with last last real breakthrough being the chain we still use today. Everything else is really just an upgrade of the same old design. Sure lots of improvements over time make a big deal, but the original idea is still prevelent. The Musk thing was just throwing a company name or person out there, but if you think someone who developed and sold an electric car (also one of the fastest excelerating) couldn't develop something as simple as a chainsaw to out perform what's available, you have an inflated opinion on what the current companies are providing. There is no tougher market to break into then the auto market. Fact.


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 4, 2018)

hseII said:


> I eat cookies & can’t race for chit so I don’t give a flip about 2/10s of a second on a Can’t Stand.
> 
> 2 out of 17 told me what I already knew concerning the last batch of 562s that went to Cottle lane.
> 
> ...


Just don't understand, both my 562, one that thin legs did and my new one start and restart fine. Great lakes tree has 3 new ones now and he would be bitching to me if he had problems. He ran 2015 models also with no problems . As far as above builder goes, his opinion on Huskys no longer matters to me. Will port your saw, says he likes them, on video, then bad mouth them. True professional. Really does not matter what brand as long as owner is happy and it performs task well.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> And they have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY!
> 
> Except when you tune them to run.
> 
> Oh well.


And when you bring in for the “5-year” warranty the response is always “bad gas” wtf ? Another thread on this ....https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/echo-cs-490-dead-after-11-5-months.325447/unread


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Don’t get the Echo Cheerleading Squad going...


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> You are missing the point. A chainsaw (even modern ones) are simplistic tools. Two stroke motor, clutch, chain, oiler. Ad a few associated parts. Chainsaws haven't really changed, with last last real breakthrough being the chain we still use today. Everything else is really just an upgrade of the same old design. Sure lots of improvements over time make a big deal, but the original idea is still prevelent. The Musk thing was just throwing a company name or person out there, but if you think someone who developed and sold an electric car (also one of the fastest excelerating) couldn't develop something as simple as a chainsaw to out perform what's available, you have an inflated opinion on what the current companies are providing. There is no tougher market to break into then the auto market. Fact.


Yah , me thinks it’s a lot more expensive to bring a “simple tool “ to market than most think ... epa regs ; safety regs , tooling;castings etc ; I agree though that if someone took all the good from each brand and combined it into one saw ,they could commanda higher price ... that company wood dominate the Saw market! It’s probably in the millions or tens of millions to launch a new saw think about it !


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

I thought this was the best 60cc saw not the best company making a 60cc saw. My fault


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , me thinks it’s a lot more expensive to bring a “simple tool “ to market than most think ... epa regs ; safety regs , tooling;castings etc ; I agree though that if someone took all the good from each brand and combined it into one saw ,they could commanda higher price ... that company wood dominate the Saw market! It’s probably in the millions or tens of millions to launch a new saw think about it !


Again, the guy broke into the auto market. Please tell me you really arnt saying the saw market would be as hard, or even in the same realm.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I thought this was the best 60cc saw not the best company making a 60cc saw. My fault



I guess that’s all in the interpretation of “who”


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## weimedog (Nov 4, 2018)

I have three 562's. First an old "logger used" 2014 model, starts runs and restarts fine, a bit tired with piston rattle. I figure I'll run it until it grenades. Need pyrotechnics for the video channel...but still waiting. My first modded 562, was a blend of the first edition 2012-13 top end decked with a popup piston. Muffler modded, basically what is now my typical "HTSS" build on them. Its a bread and butter saw for me. When the video camera is off, its one of two saws that does most of my work. into year two on what was already high hour parts. It does have a new 6 screw bottom end and an el48 carb. Love that saw. They there is the other build which is essentially a Husqvarna 560 or Jonsered 2260. Done "HTSS" style with a decked cylinder, cut covers, and muffler mod. It's reason to exist is light weight (Sugihara 18in bar and its a small mount set of cases from a 555), and it too is an excellent running saw with no issues of any kind. Did a little video with all three a while back.....how to start an Autotune...

I have yet to see an Echo in this area. Several dealers carry them, I'm assuming because of the Koritz roots they are well done, just no one buys them here.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Again, the guy broke into the auto market. Please tell me you really arnt saying the saw market would be as hard, or even in the same realm.



Not as hard, financially. Harder wrt brand loyalty.


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## weimedog (Nov 4, 2018)

AND I did a "start" race with some of the saws having sat in the back of the truck for quite a while...which one "won"


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Not as hard, financially. Harder wrt brand loyalty.


Not at all, let me help 

Use the American market first, we have an obsession with power and speed. Make your saws dominant in both, and highly modifiable. Hand them out to the right people and let the videos flow.
Now set up a dealer network. 
The fact of the matter is if I made a 60cc saw 20% more powerful then what is available people in the US will buy it. Ill be first in line.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Put all those saws away weimedog. Run the piss out of the blue one. Put all your sawtime on the blue one. See what happens. Your back, not mine. Ha!

Inquiring minds want to know.

Enjoy your vids, btw!


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Not at all, let me help
> 
> Use the American market first, we have an obsession with power and speed. Make your saws dominant in both, and highly modifiable. Hand them out to the right people and let the videos flow.
> Now set up a dealer network.
> The fact of the matter is if I made a 60cc saw 20% more powerful then what is available people in the US will buy it. Ill be first in line.



You don’t need more power, all you need is outrageous dawgs, an oversized bar, and a catchy name, like smellypiratehookersawz or something like that...

And hire the Echo Cheerleading Squad to market it!


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

weimedog said:


> I have three 562's. First an old "logger used" 2014 model, starts runs and restarts fine, a bit tired with piston rattle. I figure I'll run it until it grenades. Need pyrotechnics for the video channel...but still waiting. My first modded 562, was a blend of the first edition 2012-13 top end decked with a popup piston. Muffler modded, basically what is now my typical "HTSS" build on them. Its a bread and butter saw for me. When the video camera is off, its one of two saws that does most of my work. into year two on what was already high hour parts. It does have a new 6 screw bottom end and an el48 carb. Love that saw. They there is the other build which is essentially a Husqvarna 560 or Jonsered 2260. Done "HTSS" style with a decked cylinder, cut covers, and muffler mod. It's reason to exist is light weight (Sugihara 18in bar and its a small mount set of cases from a 555), and it too is an excellent running saw with no issues of any kind. Did a little video with all three a while back.....how to start an Autotune...
> 
> I have yet to see an Echo in this area. Several dealers carry them, I'm assuming because of the Koritz roots they are well done, just no one buys them here.



I almost went with the Sugi bar, but went the Tsumura at the last second. One thing I can say is a negative for the echo is the crappy bar selection. Cannon is making them but there's always a wait it seems. Thank God their bar adapters are usually always in stock. This is a medium mount Stihl bar


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## hseII (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Bag pics?
> 
> I am slow,I don’t get it?



A bovine from the great white North?

There can’t be 2 of them can there? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

ps, I just cut those silly Dolmar 5105 dawgs down to size yesterday. I couldn’t stand them on my saw like that anymore.


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## hseII (Nov 4, 2018)

Duce said:


> Just don't understand, both my 562, one that thin legs did and my new one start and restart fine. Great lakes tree has 3 new ones now and he would be bitching to me if he had problems. He ran 2015 models also with no problems . As far as above builder goes, his opinion on Huskys no longer matters to me. Will port your saw, says he likes them, on video, then bad mouth them. True professional. Really does not matter what brand as long as owner is happy and it performs task well.



I believe his more recent experiences have soured him on the 562s.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

I think we can all agree weimedog needs to mount one of those Mercs on a saw.

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

hseII said:


> A bovine from the great white North?
> 
> There can’t be 2 of them can there?
> 
> ...



There’s a whole bunch of them out in a blizzard as we speak. Full hay started yesterday after a very nice, unseasonable October which was preceded by a ridiculous September with snowstorms and such. We had frost every month of the year this year.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

When that 620 has heat and air filter options and better antivibe (like not from the early 90’s) and true pro support and when hell freezes over, it will enter the pro market.

Meanwhile, I’ll get one while the gettins good. I have plenty of time...


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> When that 620 has heat and air filter options and better antivibe (like not from the early 90’s) and true pro support and when hell freezes over, it will enter the pro market.
> 
> Meanwhile, I’ll get one while the gettins good. I have plenty of time...


Wow now you're adding antivibe to what's bad on the 620? It's like your rants are evolving to suit this ever evolving post.

You would be the first person ever I've seen complain about the 620s anti vibe and I seriously have not a single idea of what you are talking about. I wouldn't say it's any better or any worse then any of the other saws mentioned. I'm guessing it's because you think that 590 you own is the 620. Guess that composite handle on the 590 transfers more vibe then the aluminum one on the 620.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Ya, sorry I guess I got carried away. The antivibe is ok, especially after I taped the handle. It is not up the the same standards as the Stihls or Husky’s tho. And yes, this is the 590. I bet that 620 is a very nice saw, for all its shortcomings. Ha!

My 420 is smoother, my 5105 is smoother, my ms362 is smoother, my 1986 and 1987 590 Jonny’s are almost as smooth, and so is my 262xp almost as smooth (as the echo 590)


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

Sounds like you suffer from what many 590 owners suffer from, 620 envy. I would run out and get one fast before it causes serious and permanent damage.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

I don’t. But based on my 590 I think I know what it could be with a few updates.

My biggest gripes with the 590 are the lacklustre throttle response and the Mickey Mouse airfilter that needs grease and an o-ring to finish the job. Lots of saws have Mickey Mouse air filters tho. I have others..

I have a few saws that go from “0” to wide open in a split second. The cs590 is not one of those.

It is a torquey lazy kind of a saw. Which is nice too, in a way.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Cliff R said:


> At one time or another I've ran all the saws listed by the OP except for the 6421. So my comments are based on direct experience not regurgitating something I read someplace.
> 
> Echo hit the 60cc market pretty hard, CS-590, CS-600P and CS-620. Leaving my brand loyalty behind and the fact that I work on power equipment for a living my vote for the best 60cc offering currently available is the CS-620PW. It may not be the most powerful as I've not timed tested it against any of the competition, but power to weight is excellent, ergonomics, smooth/broad/flat power curve, runs longer bars with good authority (tested it clear to 30"), fuel efficient and to date 100 percent dead solid reliable. I'd also add that the CS-620PW is very easy to work on, and one can remove the carburetor in less time than it took to type this.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head! People like putting their heads in the sand.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Omg.

In what way are people putting their heads in the sand?


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I don’t. But based on my 590 I think I know what it could be with a few updates.
> 
> My biggest gripes with the 590 are the lacklustre throttle response and the Mickey Mouse airfilter that needs grease and an o-ring to finish the job. Lots of saws have Mickey Mouse air filters tho. I have others..
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if the 620 would snap either. It wasn't bothersome but I did the filter spacer and muffler fairly early so I don't know if it just needed more breaking in/tune. With those two mods it's snappy though, as snappy as anything else I own. It also doesn't seem to be a slacker in the RPM department like most think, least with those mods. It doesn't seem much off from the 562 in terms of rev but just pulls through a much greater spread. That last opinion is with those two mods.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

Also, I would agree on the air filter. Someone should make a high top auto style filter for it. With both the spacer inside the stock filter and the filter cover being a proven flow restriction, it would be a sweet addition for sure.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Does that 620 have the snap of the 562? The 590 does not.

Husky mid/small size xp ported saws have never been known for midrange. That is not their point.

And how about an air filter that is not an ugly high top thing?

The 262xp air filter appears to me the best I have, and it is from 1990. And mesh. And the easiest to get at. And durable. And not an ugly hi top

The auto style filters don’t last forever like the mesh ones. They “look” pretty effective. But I don’t think you can beat a good mesh filter, imo.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Does that 620 have the snap of the 562? The 590 does not.
> 
> Husky mid/small size xp ported saws have never been known for midrange. That is not their point.


As I said above, I did the filter spacer mod and muffler really early. I don't remember it being super sluggish nor have a great snap to it. It's pretty snappy now.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> As I said above, I did the filter spacer mod and muffler really early. I don't remember it being super sluggish nor have a great snap to it. It's pretty snappy now.


At this point I think it's close enough to the 562 that I would have to run them side by side, so thats pretty good regardless I would think. Next time I'm running the 562 I'll do a side by side.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Does it snap like the 562?. you know, like lightning? That’s what I would like to know.

It is ported differently, so it’s gotta be different than the 590, which I would say acts a lot like the little Dolmar 420 in that respect.

My ms362 is lightning. Sweet. Especially when there’s some torque there too.

You beat me to it smellypiratehookersawz


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> My ms362 is lightning.



The 362 is a dog![emoji13] But it has Stihl written on the side, so it must be "LIGHTNING" [emoji23][emoji23]

Yeah the filter on the Echo isn't the best to say the least, but it works well enough and doesn't seem to have an impact on durability. 

I've owned a bunch of 60cc saws, 036, ms361, ms362, 6400, cs590, 262xp, 359, 562xp, and others, mostly old school Poulans. They all cut wood! but for a new saw the Echo is unmatched in too many aspects to be overlooked. The 362 is a reliable tool, but pricey for the average firewood cutter. The 562xp is not a reliable platform IMHO, epically in certain environments, and is more complicated and harder to service without a top notch dealer, and quality is also hit and miss. 

Fact is the Echo cs590, 600 and 620 are simple, reliable, well built saws that are priced right.[emoji111]


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Omg.
> 
> In what way are people putting their heads in the sand?


 

The way you are. Steve


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> At this point I think it's close enough to the 562 that I would have to run them side by side, so thats pretty good regardless I would think. Next time I'm running the 562 I'll do a side by side.


Does it honestly really matter? A good chain is much more important than a fractional difference in power/chain speed. I can cut enough wood to fill the back of pickup truck in about 15 minutes with just about any saw, as long as it has a good chain.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 4, 2018)

Not to be a pick, and snap is cool and all, but it has nothing to do with cutting performance. Just saying.


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

Some on here think a micro second matters, it doesn't. What I and most people like about Echo saws is the wide power band not a finicky high speed power band that falls flat fast. Steve


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## Franny K (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> No because when tuned right they cut good, handle great and have a wide power band, and yes they are the best value saw made. Steve


Echo I believe in theire 620 model can have a wrap handle and double felling spikes. Consider the double felling spikes necessary to be king like a crown. Best as I know you are stuck with the standard spine or spur so can't play in .325 unless 9 tooth dreive.

As for the handle great if one thinks the 60cc class isn't worth the extra noise, weight,etc over the 50cc class not sure any of these things get the handle great rating.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Franny K said:


> Echo I believe in theire 620 model can have a wrap handle and double felling spikes. Consider the double felling spikes necessary to be king like a crown. Best as I know you are stuck with the standard spine or spur so can't play in .325 unless 9 tooth dreive.
> 
> As for the handle great if one thinks the 60cc class isn't worth the extra noise, weight,etc over the 50cc class not sure any of these things get the handle great rating.



The outer dog can be had cheaply. The 600 comes with a rim setup. Running .325 on a saw with that much torque makes no sense IMHO.[emoji111]


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## RandyinTN (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> The outer dog can be had cheaply. The 600 comes with a rim setup. Running .325 on a saw with that much torque makes no sense IMHO.[emoji111]



What is an outer dog and why wouldnt a .325 make sense?


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

RandyinTN said:


> What is an outer dog and why wouldnt a .325 make sense?


Dog is another name for a felling spike. .325 is smaller chain that works best on smaller saws with less power and shorter bars.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Not to be a pick, and snap is cool and all, but it has nothing to do with cutting performance. Just saying.



Snap is what it’s all about for pros who fall, limb and do a little bucking. Snap is what gets the job done quicker for those guys who have the talent to use it. Why do you think the midsize huskies still sell like crazy in spite of their (somewhat recent-ish) historic issues? Because they handle and have snap. Lazy trigger fingers with poor timing need not apply.

Bucking firewood is an entirely different deal, which is what many of yous have your heads in the sand about.

I think the cs590 is probably an exemplary firewood saw. The 620 probably similar, as a guess. And I have been seriously considering one. I am not a pro. I can’t really take advantage of the snap. But it is fun to have! I have worked closely with hundreds of pros in most of western Canada for nearly 40 years. Hundreds and hundreds. Some of them are the best in the business. Highly trained with vast experience. Guys that do all kinds of chainsaw work in many applications. They almost to a man like SNAPPY saws with SUPERIOR ANTIVIBE that HANDLE for most of the work they do. Stihls. Husky’s. Jonsereds. Very occasional Dolmars. They don’t run Echos. Sorry, they don’t. 

If the ms362 is so bad, why does mine handle better and run smoother and have better power than the cs590 (just as much mid to upper mid AND then TOP with snap) if the echos are so good? Btw, I don’t consider the ms362 to be a particularly good handling saw.

A dog. Ha! Right. Current internet propaganda. There are tons of them out there making money for guys all over the world. I haven’t heard too many complaints, even about the oe ‘s. I quite like mine. And so do many folks I’ve worked around. Unfortunately for me a slight majority think it is a step backwards from the ms361. And many don’t. 

King of best value, good quality, decent enough handling 60cc firewood saw; Echo Cs590.

King of 60cc saws? Not the Echo.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> Some on here think a micro second matters, it doesn't. What I and most people like about Echo saws is the wide power band not a finicky high speed power band that falls flat fast. Steve



Pretty sure you can’t take advantage of snap..


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Pretty sure you can’t take advantage of snap..


 

So your superman? Steve


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## Deleted member 117362 (Nov 4, 2018)

weimedog said:


> AND I did a "start" race with some of the saws having sat in the back of the truck for quite a while...which one "won"



I have noticed on my new 562, prime, decomp, set choke, pops when pulled, have had it drop off high idle on second pull. Reset high idle pull and it's running. Restarts when warm, no choke one pull start. Ported 390 is not a pleasure to start either without decompression. Enjoy your videos, Thanks.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Again, the guy broke into the auto market. Please tell me you really arnt saying the saw market would be as hard, or even in the same realm.


Right ! It’s pointless to speculate what Elon Musk may or may not do ... Anyone with sufficient mechanical aptitude and lotsa $$$ could do it ! See Robert Paxton McCulloch


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> You hit the nail on the head! People like putting their heads in the sand.


Or their foot in their mouths ! Hey did you ever mend fences with Hotsaws101? Inquiring minds want to know ... I guess you were the first guy he ever had to ban from his channel and he’s been on for over 10yrs ... also word has it you and Buckin and you and some Black Cat dude have some beef .... if you are in the wrong an apology wood suffice and carry on ... otherwise I woodnt go round making enemies


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Duce said:


> I have noticed on my new 562, prime, decomp, set choke, pops when pulled, have had it drop off high idle on second pull. Reset high idle pull and it's running. Restarts when warm, no choke one pull start. Ported 390 is not a pleasure to start either without decompression. Enjoy your videos, Thanks.


Walt always makes nice videos. Saws with primers will always start faster when they've been sitting awhile, it's the restarts in the heat the 5 series Husqvarna saws have issuse with. Now the 572 I ran restarted fine in 90° temperatures, which was nice to see.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> So your superman? Steve



I didn’t say that. Your reading comprehension needs work.

You are the genius that always comes on with a personal attack on me. You always start with a brilliant personal attack. I think it’s amusing. 

So I just get amused and give it back.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Snap is what it’s all about for pros who fall, limb and do a little bucking. Snap is what gets the job done quicker for those guys who have the talent to use it. Why do you think the midsize huskies still sell like crazy in spite of their (somewhat recent-ish) historic issues? Because they handle and have snap. Lazy trigger fingers with poor timing need not apply.


THIS!!!! 1000 times over, THIS is what cutting timber is all about! Its why I use a 390xp instead of a 372xp! A fraction of a second means NOTHING to a wood cutter but to a timber cutter its the difference between a smooth cut veneer log and a splinter pulled saw log. Or even worse, a shattered mess of firewood. I haven't ever cut timber with a 562xp but after building one and seeing how responsive it is, Im going to TOMORROW!


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

The Echo Cheerleading Squad is very defensive.

It’s pretty funny really. Transparent to those who read between the lies ... errr lines.

The only cheerleader on the squad who never gives a concession to reality concerning his product is mountainlake. Stubborn bugger him. At least the rest of the squad has a clue.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> THIS!!!! 1000 times over, THIS is what cutting timber is all about! Its why I use a 390xp instead of a 372xp! A fraction of a second means NOTHING to a wood cutter but to a timber cutter its the difference between a smooth cut veneer log and a splinter pulled saw log. Or even worse, a shattered mess of firewood. I haven't ever cut timber with a 562xp but after building one and seeing how responsive it is, Im going to TOMORROW!


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## RandyinTN (Nov 4, 2018)

I don’t give a hoot what a professional uses. All I want is decent power and a saw that is easy to start and doesn’t cost a fortune.
I swear, some of you cut more wood “online” than you do in the field.
OK, continue your arguement


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

RandyinTN said:


> I don’t give a hoot what a professional uses. All I want is decent power and a saw that is easy to start and doesn’t cost a fortune.
> I swear, some of you cut more wood “online” than you do in the field.
> OK, continue your arguement


LOL well your info says you are in TN, so youre welcome to come see how much wood this professional cuts anytime. I knew from one of your previous posts I saw that you weren't using saws to make a living when you asked what "dogs" were. I don't mean that as a slam or derogatory, just an observation. Loggers have a certain language that's a little different from the rest of the world (except for drunk seasick sailors) and the word "dogs" is part of it.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Another observation Ive made and haven't commented on until now is all the saw pics I see posted with both sets of dogs on their saws. When I see that I know with an almost certainty that the poster doesn't cut standing timber for a living. Any guesses as to why I assume that?


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> THIS!!!! 1000 times over, THIS is what cutting timber is all about! Its why I use a 390xp instead of a 372xp! A fraction of a second means NOTHING to a wood cutter but to a timber cutter its the difference between a smooth cut veneer log and a splinter pulled saw log. Or even worse, a shattered mess of firewood. I haven't ever cut timber with a 562xp but after building one and seeing how responsive it is, Im going to TOMORROW!



What a line of bs, how long does that SNAP last, maybe 1/2" or 1" into the cut, then its down to power and torque. If you get splinter from falling a log that has NOTHING to do with snap .Its how you cut a tree down. Snap is how fast a saw revs up and has nothing to do with power and torque. Steve


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

RandyinTN said:


> I don’t give a hoot what a professional uses. All I want is decent power and a saw that is easy to start and doesn’t cost a fortune.
> I swear, some of you cut more wood “online” than you do in the field.
> OK, continue your arguement


It’s like “bench racing” with cold ones ... but Johnny, MY dirt bike ..... lol


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## RandyinTN (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> LOL well your info says you are in TN, so youre welcome to come see how much wood this professional cuts anytime. I knew from one of your previous posts I saw that you weren't using saws to make a living when you asked what "dogs" were. I don't mean that as a slam or derogatory, just an observation. Loggers have a certain language that's a little different from the rest of the world (except for drunk seasick sailors) and the word "dogs" is part of it.



I absolutely am not a professional nor do I make money selling wood or cutting trees. All I do is cut firewood for our stove and clear up what Mother Nature decides to lay down on our trails or road.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> What a line of bs, how long does that SNAP last, maybe 1/2" or 1" into the cut, then its down to power and torque. If you get splinter from falling a log that has NOTHING to do with snap .Its how you cut a tree down. Snap is how fast a saw revs up and has nothing to do with power and torque. Steve


If you say so


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## farmer steve (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> The Echo Cheerleading Squad is very defensive.
> 
> It’s pretty funny really. Transparent to those who read between the lies ... errr lines.
> 
> The only cheerleader on the squad who never gives a concession to reality concerning his product is mountainlake. Stubborn bugger him. At least the rest of the squad has a clue.


We are having a little GTG here at my place in a couple of weeks and i know there will be a ported 590 here. i'll try and get one of the guys with more smarts than me get and post a vid of it cutting. i get what some of the logger guys say about snap etc. when cutting lumber/veneer logs but the majority of the guys here are firewood cutters that need/want a reliable saw. there are enough guys i talk to across the forum here that have the 590 and are well satisfied with it. NO it's not the awesome 60cc king but it's right up there with many of the saws mentioned so far. Did i mention i love my STIHLS?


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

hey! I’m starting to quite like my cs590. The defensive folks focus on my negative comments, not my positive ones. Oh well.

I thought this thread was about what the title said, is all.

And then eventually I started slashing and burning my way to here...


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

I run a portable sawmill and I can tell you a chainsaw that revs up fast has NOTHING to do with splinter pull in the center of a log. I can see where he wants to run a 390 vs a 372 as he can cut through the center faster eliminating the splinter pull. If he thinks a 562 is going to cut as fast as a 390 keep thinking. Steve


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## farmer steve (Nov 4, 2018)

@holeycow did you put dual dawgs on that 590?


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> I run a portable sawmill and I can tell you a chainsaw that revs up fast has NOTHING to do with splinter pull in the center of a log. I can see where he wants to run a 390 vs a 372 as he can cut through the center faster eliminating the splinter pull. If he thinks a 562 is going to cut as fast as a 390 keep thinking. Steve


LMAO! Im not stupid enough to believe a 562 could EVER hang with a 390. Neither can a 372, or a 576, or a ms461, or dare I say this, even an ms660. In all fairness, the 660 is right there with the 390, it just weighs more and I don't care for the balance and handling but that's a personal choice. This thread is about 60cc class saws and even one of my saw shops head mechanics has tried to get me to try a 562 for years but I wasn't going to shell out 700 bucks to try a saw Im pretty sure wont do what I want it to. THEN, I ran across a truckload of saws for free and some 562s were in it. I cleaned up the cylinder on one, put a meteor piston and caber rings in it, replaced a few missing parts and ended up with this one CHEAP. I think Ive got around 150 bucks in it all told. I think it will be the perfect saw to limb and top with, but I seriously doubt using it much to stump with.


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## mountainlake (Nov 4, 2018)

Read your original post, you make it sound like a snappy saw has something to do with splinter pull, right. I'd take a 562 for $150 any day. Steve


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> LOL well your info says you are in TN, so youre welcome to come see how much wood this professional cuts anytime. I knew from one of your previous posts I saw that you weren't using saws to make a living when you asked what "dogs" were. I don't mean that as a slam or derogatory, just an observation. Loggers have a certain language that's a little different from the rest of the world (except for drunk seasick sailors) and the word "dogs" is part of it.



A dog goes woof, a dawg goes into the tree for leverage or lining up cuts. On the west coast where we use a humboldt faces we can rock the saw on the outside dawg to cut our undercuts without loosing your line up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> Read your original post, you make it sound like a snappy saw has something to do with splinter pull, right. I'd take a 562 for $150 any day. Steve



It depends on what you’re doing, yes torque has some play take an older saw higher torque lower rpm cutting alder chasing the back cut it’ll chair. Take a modern saw higher rpm with good torque you can actually chase the back cut normally with chairing them out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Who here has ran and owned all of the saws mentioned in this thread? I can tell you there is no difference in snap, "whatever that is"[emoji4] between any of these saws in stock form, ported is a different story, I find most saws slow when compared to choked up stock saws. I could care less what brand, I don't even have an Echo right now lol. Believing a millionth of as second will do anything is delusional, like washing rour car and believing it runs better. But if it makes you happy more power to you [emoji111]

I also believe we have a few here who are fanboys, all of which knock a saw they've likely never had their hands on. Well that's internet forunms for you.


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## August76 (Nov 4, 2018)

holeycow said:


> And they have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY!
> 
> Except when you tune them to run.
> 
> Oh well.


5-year consumer warranty one year commercial warranty


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## CR888 (Nov 4, 2018)

The echo CS-600/620p are sold here with a OEM Sugihara solid RSN bar.


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## holeycow (Nov 4, 2018)

No. I like the inner one, is all. Dawg, that is.


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> Who here has ran and owned all of the saws mentioned in this thread? I can tell you there is no difference in snap, "whatever that is"[emoji4] between any of these saws in stock form, ported is a different story, I find most saws slow when compared to choked up stock saws. I could care less what brand, I don't even have an Echo right now lol. Believing a millionth of as second will do anything is delusional, like washing rour car and believing it runs better. But if it makes you happy more power to you [emoji111]
> 
> I also believe we have a few here who are fanboys, all of which knock a saw they've likely never had their hands on. Well that's internet forunms for you.



Sometimes that second that be the difference between a chair or not. Most of the hand cutting I do anymore is oversized or on steep ground so a light little saw like a 562 or whatever it happens to be that day can be a bonus to my back at the end of the day. 9 times of 10 it’s a larger saw with a 36 but if the big saw with the 42 or 60 comes out a light saw is great to have for smaller wood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CR888 (Nov 4, 2018)

Echo is penetrating the US market using price as their weapon of choice. The 590TW is a bargain @$399 full retail. I bought a near brand new cs550p a couple of years ago for like $250 out of the states. I recently sold it here for $500au to a firewood farmer still near new with less than 5 tanks through it. He got a bargain, that saw sells for $1k here although they are discontinued. I just had no reason to pick it up when I have ported 50cc ms261, husky 550xp & 555, Dolmar 6400, Solo 665 & 681. The Echo just didn't fit in being 55cc's and similar size to 5 cube 681. But....I poked around inside that saw and it was built with top shelf components. Walbro felt fuel filters (unlike them nasty plastic things Stihl give you), Koyo bearings not made in a 3rd world country like some of my Stihl saws with Chinese parts hidden everywhere behind the made in Germany sticker, Walbro carb, nice muffler, simple well sealed fuel/oil caps, really nice P&C, quality ignition etc. I really like the quality of the Echo and the lack of cost cutting that you find on the major 2. If Stihl can save 5cents on an oil seal or bearing, they WILL! Echo make a quality product that may not match the specs of other pro choices but the damn things will outlast religion the way there made. A sensible person buys an Echo. Sometimes I wish I was a little more sensible. All anyone focuses on in saw forums is performance, numbers & statistics which play an almost insignificant role to many of the worlds chainsaw consumers. I'm as guilty of this as anyone but sometimes a little perspective goes a long way.


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## James Miller (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Sounds like you suffer from what many 590 owners suffer from, 620 envy. I would run out and get one fast before it causes serious and permanent damage.


The 620 only makes sense if your leaving it stock or only opening the muffler. Once there ported the performance gains disappear and the other parts on the 620 aren't really needed. 



farmer steve said:


> We are having a little GTG here at my place in a couple of weeks and i know there will be a ported 590 here. i'll try and get one of the guys with more smarts than me get and post a vid of it cutting. i get what some of the logger guys say about snap etc. when cutting lumber/veneer logs but the majority of the guys here are firewood cutters that need/want a reliable saw. there are enough guys i talk to across the forum here that have the 590 and are well satisfied with it. NO it's not the awesome 60cc king but it's right up there with many of the saws mentioned so far. Did i mention i love my STIHLS?


Theres a good chance one of the red97 590s will be there also. I swear mines stock with just a muff mod.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> Sometimes that second that be the difference between a chair or not. Most of the hand cutting I do anymore is oversized or on steep ground so a light little saw like a 562 or whatever it happens to be that day can be a bonus to my back at the end of the day. 9 times of 10 it’s a larger saw with a 36 but if the big saw with the 42 or 60 comes out a light saw is great to have for smaller wood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I run 50cc saws more than anything else, but the big saw sure can put a smile on your face.[emoji111]


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## huskihl (Nov 4, 2018)

MGoBlue said:


> Challenge accepted...



I'm not sure everyone here knows about the different 365's lol


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

CR888 said:


> Echo is penetrating the US market using price as their weapon of choice. The 590TW is a bargain @$399 full retail. I bought a near brand new cs550p a couple of years ago for like $250 out of the states. I recently sold it here for $500au to a firewood farmer still near new with less than 5 tanks through it. He got a bargain, that saw sells for $1k here although they are discontinued. I just had no reason to pick it up when I have ported 50cc ms261, husky 550xp & 555, Dolmar 6400, Solo 665 & 681. The Echo just didn't fit in being 55cc's and similar size to 5 cube 681. But....I poked around inside that saw and it was built with top shelf components. Walbro felt fuel filters (unlike them nasty plastic things Stihl give you), Koyo bearings not made in a 3rd world country like some of my Stihl saws with Chinese parts hidden everywhere behind the made in Germany sticker, Walbro carb, nice muffler, simple well sealed fuel/oil caps, really nice P&C, quality ignition etc. I really like the quality of the Echo and the lack of cost cutting that you find on the major 2. If Stihl can save 5cents on an oil seal or bearing, they WILL! Echo make a quality product that may not match the specs of other pro choices but the damn things will outlast religion the way there made. A sensible person buys an Echo. Sometimes I wish I was a little more sensible. All anyone focuses on in saw forums is performance, numbers & statistics which play an almost insignificant role to many of the worlds chainsaw consumers. I'm as guilty of this as anyone but sometimes a little perspective goes a long way.


Finally someone that gets it. The enternals of Echo products are second to none. The top end on the 590 I had was about the nicest I've ever seen. Had a 441 cylinder on a lathe, the base was out .010" slapped on a cylinder from a 30 yo Poulan the same day and it was withen .001"[emoji16]

Some people are branded plane and simple.


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> I run 50cc saws more than anything else, but the big saw sure can put a smile on your face.[emoji111]



The smallest saw I’ve run is a 60cc got broke in running hopped up 372’s and 390’s mainly once in a blue a 66.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> The smallest saw I’ve run is a 60cc got broke in running hopped up 372’s and 390’s mainly once in a blue a 66.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How are the 390's bottom ends holding up for you lately.


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> How are the 390's bottom ends holding up for you lately.



Haven’t had to hand cut much in the last two years but so far ok, my 385 took 15 years of abuse. 

Best saw in the world is the one that drives you to the stump, cuts and limbs it for you.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> It depends on what you’re doing, yes torque has some play take an older saw higher torque lower rpm cutting alder chasing the back cut it’ll chair. Take a modern saw higher rpm with good torque you can actually chase the back cut normally with chairing them out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ash is prone to barber-chair ... technique developed is chain tightened 1 foot above face - cut ... maybe not best idear to try and “outrace” the barber-chair - eventually you will encounter a tree that you will not beat especially with Ash


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Not at all, let me help
> 
> Use the American market first, we have an obsession with power and speed. Make your saws dominant in both, and highly modifiable. Hand them out to the right people and let the videos flow.
> Now set up a dealer network.
> The fact of the matter is if I made a 60cc saw 20% more powerful then what is available people in the US will buy it. Ill be first in line.


I believe that angle is already covered but I could be mistaken


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> Haven’t had to hand cut much in the last two years but so far ok, my 385 took 15 years of abuse.
> 
> Best saw in the world is the one that drives you to the stump, cuts and limbs it for you.
> 
> ...


15 years that's crazy. I've seen 390 not last 6 months, but some just won't die, lots of things factor into that though.

That's one monster of a machine, looks like fun.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> So your superman? Steve


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)




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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

https://youtu.be/34shSznP5lU


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Ash is prone to barber-chair ... technique developed is chain tightened 1 foot above face - cut ... maybe not best idear to try and “outrace” the barber-chair - eventually you will encounter a tree that you will not beat especially with Ash



I do production cutting I had to haul a chain and binder through our steep ground with all brush we have I wouldn’t get anything done. There’s ways to get it down with out chairing that east coast cutters don’t do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> I do production cutting I had to haul a chain and binder through our steep ground with all brush we have I wouldn’t get anything done. There’s ways to get it down with out chairing that east coast cutters don’t do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m listening ... you must understand first that we are talking dead ash that has been decimated by the EAB or emerald ash-borer ; an invasive species with no predators ... they bore into the tree which disrupts the trees ability to sustain itself eventually killing it ... if left to fester the tree becomes unpredictable especially with a leaning crown ... ok I’m done


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> I do production cutting I had to haul a chain and binder through our steep ground with all brush we have I wouldn’t get anything done. There’s ways to get it down with out chairing that east coast cutters don’t do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some folks from the southeast can cut ash without busting it too.  And that's without using a chain and binders too.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Some folks from the southeast can cut ash without busting it too.  And that's without using a chain and binders too.


Yah what condition ? If it’s alive than ... if it’s dead and has been festering look out


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I’m listening ... you must understand first that we are talking dead ash that has been decimated by the EAB or emerald ash-borer ; an invasive species with no predators ... they bore into the tree which disrupts the trees ability to sustain itself eventually killing it ... if left to fester the tree becomes unpredictable especially with a leaning crown ... ok I’m done



You can walk a dead tree around a little practice in how a face is set up helps. Red alder is a different animal you look at them wrong and they’ll chair on you one of the biggest problems with them is they follow the hillsides instead of straight up like a Doug fir they can be parallel to the hillside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Ok Frank, I will try to answer you. I don't have mspaint to draw a pretty picture so its going to be long winded. Start with the bottom cut on the notch side. And this is where using a normal 20 in bar is way better than a bar that reaches all the way across the stump. Cut around on the off side with the powerhead dead center the direction you will set the notch as far as you dare. Then come around to the near side cutting the heart first then cut around that side until the tree starts to set down on you. Pull out, back up on that near side within about 4 inches of the trigger side and bore straight in. Start working that cut back to the front, boring in, pulling out, torqueing the bar to widen the cut, until you cut into the front cut. Set your felling notch smaller than normal. Walk around the tree to the off side and using the back of the bar bore into it the same way you did the other side. If you do this right, by the time you are done your trigger will only be a couple inches thick. Go back to the "safe" side and start working at the sides of your trigger until it either goes or you've got a 2x2 in square holding the tree up. Step to the side and cut the trigger. I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS STYLE OF CUTTING FOR ANYBODY EXCEPT MYSELF! THIS IS WHAT WORKS FOR ME AFTER SPENDING 35 YEARS IN THE WOODS


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> 15 years that's crazy. I've seen 390 not last 6 months, but some just won't die, lots of things factor into that though.
> 
> That's one monster of a machine, looks like fun.



It’s a thinning machine in 25 year old Doug fir mainly.





that 385 spent a lot of time in wood like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

No smart answers either please Frank. It took me longer to type all that out than it takes me to cut the tree I described. Living or dead trees doesn't make much difference. The dead ones just snap off the stump sooner. If you bust a normal ash, you did something wrong. With that said, the last saw I crushed (Ive only destroyed 3 I think) was in an ash that I was trying to make go where it didn't want to go and my trigger pulled up the roots instead of snapping and the roots took my saw with them.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans, do you typically jack a lot of timber? Ive never cut using that procedure. If I need it to go somewhere that it doesn't want to, we usually put a cable in them and pull them with a machine. I spent 3 days last week cutting around powerlines and houses but I had climbers on site to set my cables for me. Ive got several more to do that way tomorrow too if it doesn't rain me out!


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Skeans, do you typically jack a lot of timber? Ive never cut using that procedure. If I need it to go somewhere that it doesn't want to, we usually put a cable in them and pull them with a machine. I spent 3 days last week cutting around powerlines and houses but I had climbers on site to set my cables for me. Ive got several more to do that way tomorrow too if it doesn't rain me out!



That isn’t for a jack it’s a block face they really help control the timber, that stick made over 200’ of logs.




Same patch of wood to the left is the property line and to the rear is the line with a slight lean back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> You can walk a dead tree around a little practice in how a face is set up helps. Red alder is a different animal you look at them wrong and they’ll chair on you one of the biggest problems with them is they follow the hillsides instead of straight up like a Doug fir they can be parallel to the hillside.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We’ve been whacking with sledge listening ... rough estimate at best but something ...


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> We’ve been whacking with sledge listening ... rough estimate at best but something ...



Sledge? Pick up at the max a 4 lb axe 28” a wedge pouch and a belt give them a tap with the poll you can hear a sound enough dead tree you can swing and one that is punky that you face up with a small back cut and use a pusher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> That isn’t for a jack it’s a block face they really help control the timber, that stick made over 200’ of logs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, so that cut out is your direction of fall? Unlike some people, I don't pretend to know it all, only what works for me. If that cut is the fall direction, in our type of timber you had better match the back cut with the bottom of that face cut or else its going to hang the step on the stump and split a grade hardwood tree like an acorn! I also see from your post that they use a different timber scale out there than they do here. Here that butt log would have well over 200 bd ft in it and the whole tree should be at least 700 ft


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Some folks from the southeast can cut ash without busting it too.  And that's without using a chain and binders too.


 Right now most of the dead Ash is so far gone the holding wood is too weak and the trees have to be taken out from the top down.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Skeans said:


> It’s a thinning machine in 25 year old Doug fir mainly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful!


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> Right now most of the dead Ash is so far gone the holding wood is too weak and the trees have to be taken out from the top down.


Fortunately it hasn't got that bad here YET. Very rarely do I come across one that's beetle killed in fact. I looked at a tract a few months ago that's got some of the best ash Ive ever seen on it and the idiot that owns it still hasn't decided to cut! His wife wont let him cut it! I told him to bring her up there, show her one of the bigger ones and tell her to take 700 bucks out of her purse and burn it because that's what she is going to lose when that one tree dies. Theres probably 50 or more trees like that on just one little hillside too.


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## Skeans (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Hmm, so that cut out is your direction of fall? Unlike some people, I don't pretend to know it all, only what works for me. If that cut is the fall direction, in our type of timber you had better match the back cut with the bottom of that face cut or else its going to hang the step on the stump and split a grade hardwood tree like an acorn! I also see from your post that they use a different timber scale out there than they do here. Here that butt log would have well over 200 bd ft in it and the whole tree should be at least 700 ft



No that’s not the scale, I made 6 40’s out of it, the tree made over 200’ of logs not scale but actual footage. Yes that controls the direction, with a block I can pretty much nip it off the hinge once it’s started. With that style of face you wouldn’t want to cut it at the lower sight then you wouldn’t have control, with this face the fibers can bend and normally won’t rip them from the butt log.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 4, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Fortunately it hasn't got that bad here YET. Very rarely do I come across one that's beetle killed in fact. I looked at a tract a few months ago that's got some of the best ash Ive ever seen on it and the idiot that owns it still hasn't decided to cut! His wife wont let him cut it! I told him to bring her up there, show her one of the bigger ones and tell her to take 700 bucks out of her purse and burn it because that's what she is going to lose when that one tree dies. Theres probably 50 or more trees like that on just one little hillside too.


As far as I know not a single living Ash tree is left in this region, and most have been dead for several years now. I started telling everyone to take the trees down right away, the answer was always, they still look good it's a nice shade tree. Well now they had to call in a tree company to come in and take the trees out the expensive way, as I wasn't going to touch the rotten messes, can't even use them for firewood. So yes the sooner you can get to then the better.

Here's one that came down on it's own just the other night, took out the power for over 100 homes.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 4, 2018)

Ah ok, I get it now! Who says an old dog cant learn new tricks?? lol


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 4, 2018)

I have to agree the echo is the best bargain there is to be had, especially in the 60cc class, I would say a 590 is all most firewood guys would need, I get new 562 for around 650.00 that's with tax and a 20" or 24" bar and chain, 590 is around 225.00 cheaper then that, hard to argue it especially for best value.


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## August76 (Nov 4, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have to agree the echo is the best bargain there is to be had, especially in the 60cc class, I would say a 590 is all most firewood guys would need, I get new 562 for around 650.00 that's with tax and a 20" or 24" bar and chain, 590 is around 225.00 cheaper then that, hard to argue it especially for best value.


If I had to buy a new firewood saw from a big box store I would get a 450 rancher or echo cs590 . I had opted for those choices and the used 6421 before the chainsaw addiction had set in. I made the determination that the Makita dcs6421 was the best saw for the price even used that $300 you're buying like $700 worth of Saw or more there is the risk that you might have to rebuild it because it has been used as a rental song and people that rent saws from Home Depot aren't exactly nice to him that just proves that that particular saw can take some serious abuse if a saw can handle the idiots that go to Home Depot it can handle an awful lot and the other reason I bought that song over the cs-590 was the fact that I can upgrade The Jug anytime I feel like it for a hundred something dollars and bump up to a 79cc saw but the echo is an extremely good value I don't know how well it runs because I haven't run one I'm sure the 450 Rancher is just fine for firewood anything is better than buying some crappy ass poulan from Home Depot


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 4, 2018)

I agree the Makita saws are overlooked by many, and I would have done the same as you, bought the saw I could upgrade at any point, I was strictly talking best value of a new saw. I prefer to buy a saw and do a little work and get the best value I can, but I know some don't, ( maybe it is lack of knowledge or they don't have the time?) for them the echo might be a great choice, either way I think there booth good choices.


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## James Miller (Nov 5, 2018)

I'm one of those guys that bought a 590 because of the price point. Mine ran with an 036 box stock. To me that's a strong saw for $400 or less brand new. I haven't run alot of different saws so take my opinion for what its worth.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Snap is what it’s all about for pros who fall, limb and do a little bucking. Snap is what gets the job done quicker for those guys who have the talent to use it. Why do you think the midsize huskies still sell like crazy in spite of their (somewhat recent-ish) historic issues? Because they handle and have snap. Lazy trigger fingers with poor timing need not apply.
> 
> Bucking firewood is an entirely different deal, which is what many of yous have your heads in the sand about.
> 
> ...


Well in use yesterday I'd say its not snappiest but not sluggish at all. In no way am I faster then it for sure. I took a video but you can't hear the RPM over the pop of the muffler mod, lol


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Right ! It’s pointless to speculate what Elon Musk may or may not do ... Anyone with sufficient mechanical aptitude and lotsa $$$ could do it ! See Robert Paxton McCulloch


It wasn't speculation, it was an example


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## Cliff R (Nov 5, 2018)

"hey! I’m starting to quite like my cs590. The defensive folks focus on my negative comments, not my positive ones. Oh well."

What did you do, finally put the chain on in the right direction!.....LOL


Anyhow, the CS-590 is a good saw (best bang for the buck out there IMHO), the CS-600P better, and the CS-620PW excellent. It still doesn't matter Echo can hit that market as hard as they want but it's like Nissan making a full size diesel truck to compete with the Dodge Cummins, Chevy Duramax and Ford diesels, WAY too many die hard loyalists out there to ever get the top spot in that market no matter how good your offering is......FWIW.

Now Echo needs to get rid of the CS-670/680 series and build a 70-75cc saw on the CS-620PW platform.....I'm all in when they make that move........Cliff


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 5, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> THIS!!!! 1000 times over, THIS is what cutting timber is all about! Its why I use a 390xp instead of a 372xp! A fraction of a second means NOTHING to a wood cutter but to a timber cutter its the difference between a smooth cut veneer log and a splinter pulled saw log. Or even worse, a shattered mess of firewood. I haven't ever cut timber with a 562xp but after building one and seeing how responsive it is, Im going to TOMORROW!


Not really, but I will continue to point out any points you make that are based off your 590. It's just not the 620. It's amazing the biggest haters I've seen on the 620 are 590 owners. 
I'm not commenting on the stihl or dolmar variants cause I haven't ran them. You have not ran the 620.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 5, 2018)

Cliff R said:


> "hey! I’m starting to quite like my cs590. The defensive folks focus on my negative comments, not my positive ones. Oh well."
> 
> What did you do, finally put the chain on in the right direction!.....LOL
> 
> ...


True, but the original post was about the best 60cc saw, not the best company, best support, or the one that has the best company following.


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## mountainlake (Nov 5, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Well in use yesterday I'd say its not snappiest but not sluggish at all. In no way am I faster then it for sure. I took a video but you can't hear the RPM over the pop of the muffler mod, lol




(In no way am I faster then it for sure) I'll agree with that 100% as I'm not superman. Steve


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Well in use yesterday I'd say its not snappiest but not sluggish at all. In no way am I faster then it for sure. I took a video but you can't hear the RPM over the pop of the muffler mod, lol



Thanks for taking the time. I don’t find the 590 annoyingly sluggish, but it’s the kind of power that finds one throwing a throttle blip in here and there prior to hitting the wood (at least I do sometimes). Snappy saws require no blips. For those who spend more time limbing than bucking, snap is what gets the job done. It’s not just the saw, it’s the whole symphony of moving and cutting, staying on balance, etc where snap comes in to play for those who can take advantage of it. Since 60cc saws are limbing saws I brought that up.

For the ones still learning the lingo, or simply being argumentative; snap = throttle response to wide open throttle.

So your 620 with light mods has nearly the throttle response of the 562. Good to know. I might just like that. Quite a bit.


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

Cliff R said:


> "hey! I’m starting to quite like my cs590. The defensive folks focus on my negative comments, not my positive ones. Oh well."
> 
> What did you do, finally put the chain on in the right direction!.....LOL
> 
> ...



Putting the chain on correctly really made a big difference!

Yup, put a 75cc on the 590/620 cases. Update the airbox to something really nice (like the 262xp), provide some options in air filters and heated handles/carbs, and tune it for snap (whatever that is).

Without electronics... but that’s not likely : (

It would be a sweet saw, for sure. It would be taken seriously by pros (most of whom consider 60cc their baby saw, if they even have one that small).

I would buy one. Hopefully I wouldn’t have to pull the caps and mod the muffler to make it run properly....just couldn’t resist digging at that.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It wasn't speculation, it was an example


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

Jftr, generally speaking, Echo chainsaws are not the same value for the dollar purchase in Canada as in the states.

Their fall sale price on a 620 is 750.00. About a hundred more gets you into a Stihl or Husky with wrap and winter heat at a competitive dealer.

500.00 on sale for the 590 (600.00 reg). The sale price isn’t too bad. However, I got mine for much less and wouldn’t have paid more at the time.

550.00 on sale for the 501p. The ms261 was on sale for 650 with case etc this past spring..

Echo is not trying as hard here.


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## Tor R (Nov 5, 2018)




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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Not really, but I will continue to point out any points you make that are based off your 590. It's just not the 620. It's amazing the biggest haters I've seen on the 620 are 590 owners.
> I'm not commenting on the stihl or dolmar variants cause I haven't ran them. You have not ran the 620.



You may be directing this at me?

If so, I am not an Echo hater. By far. I just know where they REALLY stand in the chainsaw world, and to directly compare a cs590 to the best out there is ridiculous, quite frankly. The 620, on the other hand, may be different but it loses much of its price- point advantage in Canada.

To me, the 620 appeals because it has a screw carb, no strato, and is surely a decent saw. I would choose that over whiz-bang tech. Many don’t.

And since this thread involves the 620, not the 590 I will stop that comparison, in my own mind.


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## hseII (Nov 5, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Another observation Ive made and haven't commented on until now is all the saw pics I see posted with both sets of dogs on their saws. When I see that I know with an almost certainty that the poster doesn't cut standing timber for a living. Any guesses as to why I assume that?



Due Tail.


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## hseII (Nov 5, 2018)

Skeans said:


> A dog goes woof, a dawg goes into the tree for leverage or lining up cuts. On the west coast where we use a humboldt faces we can rock the saw on the outside dawg to cut our undercuts without loosing your line up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



But you must not be for real cause you use an outside dog. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> 15 years that's crazy. I've seen 390 not last 6 months, but some just won't die, lots of things factor into that though.
> 
> That's one monster of a machine, looks like fun.



If you think that's a monster of a logging machine you aint seen much. That looks like a very handy,pretty maneuverable medium duty lightweight little machine for soft-ish conditions to me.


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## flyinfinn (Nov 5, 2018)

I've got a 262XP with a KS jug and 87 carb. Anyone want to trade for a 562XP?


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

how are you liking that saw? As I think you know, I have one too, same configuration as yours. I have barely run mine (1 tank -thirsty beggar). It runs well though, I know at least that.


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## flyinfinn (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> how are you liking that saw? As I think you know, I have one too, same configuration as yours. I have barely run mine. It runs well though, I know at least that.



I got it a few months ago, and really only have one good day on it. I really like the power and the acceleration of it! It's lots of fun to use.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> If you think that's a monster of a logging machine you aint seen much. That looks like a very handy,pretty maneuverable medium duty lightweight little machine for soft-ish conditions to me.


Yes but does it have SNAP, is it LIGHTNING? Every logger knows without SNAP and LIGHTNING it's worthless.[emoji23][emoji23]

[emoji6][emoji111]


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

wouldn't have snap, but could be lightning


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Buy what you like and have support for, if you like a project saw and have knowledge go that route and save the money, best out of the box 60cc saw isn't even close, it's a 562xp when they are mentioned as replacing the 372 with many people, you know they are strong, what other 60cc saw gets compared to a 70cc saw frequently?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Buy what you like and have support for, if you like a project saw and have knowledge go that route and save the money, best out of the box 60cc saw isn't even close, it's a 562xp when they are mentioned as replacing the 372 with many people, you know they are strong, want other 60cc saw gets compared to a 70cc saw frequently?


STIHL 261cm oh wait it’s only 50cc


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Never hear of a Stihl compared higher, just facts, 261 is a great 50 cc saw though


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## hseII (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Buy what you like and have support for, if you like a project saw and have knowledge go that route and save the money, best out of the box 60cc saw isn't even close, it's a 562xp when they are mentioned as replacing the 372 with many people, you know they are strong, want other 60cc saw gets compared to a 70cc saw frequently?



All the 60cc class saws mentioned in this threadz.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

I have never heard of any of the others referenced as the power of a.70cc saw


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## hseII (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have never heard of any of the others referenced as the power of a.70cc saw



“Want,( I assume you mean what), other 60cc saw gets compared to a 70cc saw frequently?” 

A ported CS-620p will smoke a stock 372xp, but because you haven’t heard of it, I guess it isn’t real?

No Knucklehead: there are more saws out there than your beloved 562, & not everyone has good experiences with said 5 series Husqvarna. 

Let’s just say there are good saws from multiple manufacturers in the 60cc class & call it a day.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

First off, I was comparing a STOCK 562 to a stock 372, I said earlier the echo is a great quality saw, little heavy compared to others in the class, I do agree the 562 had issues on the early models, that why I waited to buy one, I was one of the last people who actually gave them a try on the sites, I didn't trust the autotune or mtronic systems, so far I have been very impressed. Would I buy a 620, sure if the price was right, I have ran a ported 620, feels like a ported 262 to me just heavier.


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

but this thread is about the King (among currently available stock saws I presume, except that gets muddied over and over. And again. ).


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have never heard of any of the others referenced as the power of a.70cc saw


No 60cc saw I have ever ran will compare to a 70cc saw, including my 562. Ported they get close, but still lack the torque, so your chain can't be aggressive with the chain and you have to feather the saw through the cut to get them near a good 70cc saw. If you cut softwood you may not notice as big of a difference in torque. Now saws like the 365 and 6400 have the torque as they have the same bottom end as their big bore brothers, so they really don't count IMHO, as they aren't stand alone platforms.

Now if you're familiar with Ed heard aka EHP he was throwing out some wild videos of his ported 562 cutting only a tick or two behind a stock 395 in 30" Maple. What people don't know is just how good Ed's chains are and how well he can operate a saw and make it look. There is more to it than power alone, especially if you're good.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

What finally convinced me to try a 562 was watching a stock one out cut a ported 034 super and ported 036 booth done by a more then reputable guy, I can provide you with names of the other guys at the same gtg who all agreed, all running round chains, just send me a PM


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## Huntaholic (Nov 5, 2018)

Just like I promised, I cut timber today with my new to me 562. I wish I could just send a pic here and post it via my phone, but I don't see that as an option. Anyway, I was thoroughly impressed with the little feller! You cant crowd it like a 390xp but if you let it set the pace it will get the job done and do it very nicely at that. My topper used it all day too and the more he ran it the better he liked it. SO much so that I think hes going to want to top with it all the time instead of the ms460 he normally uses.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

Andyshine77 said:


> No 60cc saw I have ever ran will compare to a 70cc saw, including my 562. Ported they get close, but still lack the torque, so your chain can't be aggressive and you have to feather the saw through the cut to get them near a good 70cc saw. If you cut softwood you may not notice as big of a difference in torque. Now saws like the 365 and 6400 have the torque as they have the same bottom end as their big bore brothers, so they really don't count IMHO, as they aren't stand alone platforms.
> 
> Now if you're familiar with Ed heard aka EHP he was throwing out some wild videos of his ported 562 cutting only a tick or two behind a stock 395 in 30" Maple. What people don't know is just how good Ed's chains are and how well he can operate a saw and make it look. There is more to it than power alone, especially if you're good.


If running the same bar and chain on each saw the hp generated “wood” have to similar for the 562xp to be “a tick or two behind” a stock 395 in 30” maple ... as long as the operator is unbiased and applying a similar load on each saw it’s simply physics being demonstrated in the real world


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Never hear of a Stihl compared higher, just facts, 261 is a great 50 cc saw though


Not according to Snellerized


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have never heard of any of the others referenced as the power of a.70cc saw


Try running a 50cc Saw (of your favorite manufacturer) that’s been insane-0 or psy-ko’d by Hotsaws101 and then get back to us with your findings !


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> What finally convinced me to try a 562 was watching a stock one out cut a ported 034 super and ported 036 booth done by a more then reputable guy, I can provide you with names of the other guys at the same gtg who all agreed, all running round chains, just send me a PM


I fully believe you. The fact is the 034 and 036 are waht 4 generations old, and had ancient cylinder designs, I would expect them to get out performed by modern saw of similar displacement ported or not.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 5, 2018)

hseII said:


> “Want,( I assume you mean what), other 60cc saw gets compared to a 70cc saw frequently?”
> 
> A ported CS-620p will smoke a stock 372xp, but because you haven’t heard of it, I guess it isn’t real



In small wood yes, with a longer bar, that I would like to see.[emoji111]


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

I have plenty of ported 50cc saws, although they run amazing they don't have the torque of a 70cc saw, no replacement for displacement.


Frank Rizzo said:


> Try running a 50cc Saw (of your favorite manufacturer) that’s been insane-0 or psy-ko’d by Hotsaws101 and then get back to us with your findings !


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## cuinrearview (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> insane-0





Frank Rizzo said:


> psy-ko’d


OMFG do those names actually describe port work?!??!!?!?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I have plenty of ported 50cc saws, although they run amazing they don't have the torque of a 70cc saw, no replacement for displacement.


Cutting speed ! That’s were it’s at - “ported” is a loaded term ... who did the work ? Johnny Shine ? Guy ya pulled of the barstool ? Fact is ol Hotsaws101 builds a strong saw - much stronger than the ones I’ve run by “known builders” on this site and ol bird-legs’ forum OPP ..


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

could be, I don't know, but one thing for certain he is a real experienced sawhand and mechanic.

top of the evening to you Frank


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Randy builds a saw to cut faster and to LAST, maybe some build a faster saw, but I trust my $ with him.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> OMFG do those names actually describe port work?!??!!?!?


That’s the “zip - kit “ designation yeppers ! Psy-ko is the highest state of tune with an SS option available ...Jack is famous for his insane-0 port job the world over ! See outinthewood from Ireland - he’s a faller who has several of Jacks and other porters saws !


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Spend your $ where you like, i trust MMWS, Huskihl,T4driller,MOFO, Rattler, they are all above reproach I'm, all good men, honest to a fault.


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## cuinrearview (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> That’s the “zip - kit “ designation yeppers ! Psy-ko is the highest state of tune with an SS option available ...Jack is famous for his insane-0 port job the world over ! See outinthewood from Ireland - he’s a faller who has several of Jacks and other porters saws !


Is he still in grade school?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> Is he still in grade school?


Haha ... that was so funny I forgot to laugh ! Zzzzzzz


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## farmer steve (Nov 5, 2018)

Almost 30 pages about a saw to cut firewood.  looks like it could be a loooong winter. think i'll start a thread . "BEST sub 50cc saw"


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> Almost 30 pages about a saw to cut firewood.  looks like it could be a loooong winter. think i'll start a thread . "BEST sub 50cc saw"


Already cut 50 cord since the thread began !!! Best sub 50cc Saw ? ... the “legendary Fabio 241c” ported , 7 pin ; 55 driver bar ; 3/8picco “razer” sharp chain ... cut up face cord of 12” rounds in 4-5 min and and gets good mpg ... favorite saw in smaller wood by far


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## farmer steve (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Already cut 50 cord since the thread began !!!


i won powerball AND mega millions.


----------



## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> Almost 30 pages about a saw to cut firewood.  looks like it could be a loooong winter. think i'll start a thread . "BEST sub 50cc saw"



I didn't know it was about a firewood saw!!? I though it was about awesomest 60cc King jack-of-all-trades saw??

nearly 30 pages of me being off track. Damn!

Firewood? I guess all you need is a durable, torquey saw. No snap. No lightning. Not especially good handling. Just torquey and durable.

That changes everything.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> i won powerball AND mega millions.


Pics or I call BS


----------



## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> Is he still in grade school?



Hey, sure it's a little over the top, but he is branding. Why not. All companies do it. Look at smellypiratehookersawz, that's pretty catchy, right? You're not gonna forget it.


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Hey, sure it's a little over the top, but he is branding. Why not. All companies do it. Look at smellypiratehookersawz, that's pretty catchy, right? You're not gonna forget it.


A lot of the names are pretty flamboyant...


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## farmer steve (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Already cut 50 cord since the thread began !!! Best sub 50cc Saw ? ... my stock241c” not ported , 6pin ; 55 driver bar ; 3/8picco hand filed by me sharp chain ... cut up face cord of 16” rounds in as long as it takes and and gets good mpg ... favorite saw in smaller wood by far








Frank Rizzo said:


> Pics or I call BS


/
FIXED!!!!
^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## farmer steve (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I didn't know it was about a firewood saw!!? I though it was about awesomest 60cc King jack-of-all-trades saw??
> 
> nearly 30 pages of me being off track. Damn!
> 
> ...


i saw 60 cc in the thread title and just thought "firewood" saw. no respectable logger wood use such a small saw cuttin timber.


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

no, but he might use it for thinning .. or fires ... or slash and burn, or even seismic, depending..


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## cuinrearview (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Haha ... that was so funny I forgot to laugh ! Zzzzzzz


Seriously? The "Captain Insano" and "Norman Bates" gimmicky a$$ monikers don't seem the least bit adolescent to you?


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 5, 2018)

All I know come late spring (when my cutting slows down) the cs620 is getting broken down and then I'll have to decide if I'm cylinder porting it or having it done. Gasket delete of course. Can't wait.


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

I thought you liked the way it runs


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> Seriously? The "Captain Insano" and "Norman Bates" gimmicky a$$ monikers don't seem the least bit adolescent to you?


That’s how the man runs his business and apparently business is good ... extreme; animal;insane-0 and psy-ko are the choices of zip-kits with a SS upgrade iirc correctly ... he’s very knowledgeable and been felling and zipping saws for a looooong time ... I personally have 2 saws done by him and the supposedly “high price” of his work paid itself off rather quickly ...


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

So what does he charge for port work? Curious? Insano and phyco? Any difference?


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## MGoBlue (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> So what does he charge for port work? Curious? Insano and phyco? Any difference?


Aren't you out of troll food yet Dustin?


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> That’s how the man runs his business and apparently business is good ... extreme; animal;insane-0 and psy-ko are the choices of zip-kits with a SS upgrade iirc correctly ... he’s very knowledgeable and been felling and zipping saws for a looooong time ... I personally have 2 saws done by him and the supposedly “high price” of his work paid itself off rather quickly ...


You didn't answer my question.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

MGoBlue said:


> Aren't you out of troll food yet Dustin?



Not me, just curious how much insano and phyco work goes for and what the difference is.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> So what does he charge for port work? Curious? Insano and phyco? Any difference?


If you utube Hotsaws101 his email is in the description ... just a word to the wise ... he’s very selective on who he deals with so ...


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Well whats the big secret on pricing and what the difference is between his options?


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

farmer steve said:


> /
> FIXED!!!!
> ^^^^^^^^^^


 Oh sing to me baby ! Kiss me quick I’m coming !!!!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Well whats the big secret on pricing and what the difference is between his options?


You have to talk to Jack ... I’m just the east coast Hotsaws101 franchisee lol !!!


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Wnt waste my time, I already got plenty of good guys that are transparent, plus I will be porting my own saws soon, I didn't spend all that $ on a lathe, tooling, handpieces, foredome to let it sit.


----------



## August76 (Nov 5, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Not really, but I will continue to point out any points you make that are based off your 590. It's just not the 620. It's amazing the biggest haters I've seen on the 620 are 590 owners.
> I'm not commenting on the stihl or dolmar variants cause I haven't ran them. You have not ran the 620.


It really is hard to speculate on something one has never run before. I tell you what today I went to go cut firewood forgot how heavy these saws are lol


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Wnt waste my time, I already got plenty of good guys that are transparent, plus I will be porting my own saws soon, I didn't spend all that $ on a lathe, tooling, handpieces, foredome to let it sit.


Well you asked and I responded ... please consider others time as valuable as well ! Out


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

You gave some phony BS, if you had a saw ported then you should know the price you PD.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Wnt waste my time, I already got plenty of good guys that are transparent, plus I will be porting my own saws soon, I didn't spend all that $ on a lathe, tooling, handpieces, foredome to let it sit.


Well you asked and I responded ... please consider others time as valuable as well ! Out


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You gave some phony BS, if you had a saw ported then you should know the price you PD.


Yah ... if you can’t be bothered lifting your finger to send him an email than I guess you really don’t care to know ... which is really no sweat off my brow ..... out


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

You been out now 3 times.lol


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You been out now 3 times.lol


Try contacting Definitive Dave ... he was hating on Jack much like you until he ran a psy-ko ss 375xpw - iirc correctly he walked away with a new found respect for Hotsaws101 and the saw he ran was blubbering - rich as it was fresh out the shop .... now if you’ll excuse me I have other matters to attend to !!!


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

You been out a long time Fabz, out in left field.lmao


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)




----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

That’s the Saw ... it’s an insane-0 ss not a psy-ko ss my error ... run at ny gtg


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

I will keep my MMWS 2171 XPW


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> View attachment 683603


Well shes hot as a pepper ... but smooth as a Mexican brew !


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Glad you like it, since you payed the bill, that's all that matters


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You been out a long time Fabz, out in left field.lmao


Actually I’ve been out slaying dead-ash trees and you know ... Actually USING MY SAW - I wood have considered your 064 but since you don’t “do videos” and I have no way to run it .....


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

My 064s don't cost me a thing on there shelf, they put a smile on my face when I use them. Your loss.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

Besides I got this here hot-rod 461R ... I’d like to see YOUR mmws 2171 pull .050 rakers thru hard-maple but since you don’t “do videos” I guess we can’t ... LMFAO !!!!


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

Videos don't prove anything, your happy with yours, I am happy with mine, if I ever make the trip to the NY GTG and you want to run same chain in same wood,NP.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Glad you like it, since you payed the bill, that's all that matters


That’s not my 375xpw... but it was bought by a gent downstate ny


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Videos don't prove anything, your happy with yours, I am happy with mine, if I ever make the trip to the NY GTG and you want to run same chain in same wood,NP.


Old saying in the bizness my friend ... “the tape don’t lie ! “


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

But the tape does lie, to easy to make a saw look great or poor performing in a video, wood, operator, chain and tune are all easily manipulated.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> But the tape does lie, to easy to make a saw look great or poor performing in a video, wood, operator, chain and tune are all easily manipulated.


Ok Dustin - but the sharper members of the forum might not agree with your hypothesis !!!


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

I doubt any would agree with your theory's.


----------



## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

I thought you guys were going to make a saw transaction. Guess not.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

He is all into YouTube, I am all into saws.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I thought you guys were going to make a saw transaction. Guess not.


Yeah well before I pay $900 for a “ported” Saw pho I’d like to at LEAST see / hear it run or preferably run it myself ... any saws I’ve sold I let the guy run the Saw in the log ... guess this new generation does things another way ! I for one ain’t spending that kinda bread on a wish and a prayer especially when I can spend a few more clams and get a BRAND NEW SAW with a WARRANTY !!! Thought this kids were tech-savvy ? Guess this one ain’t cause he don’t “do videos” hee-hee ... No SALE Junior !!!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I doubt any would agree with your theory's.


If ifs and buts we’re candies and nuts ..we’d all have a merry x-mas !!!


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

I don’t think he really wants to sell a saw


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> But the tape does lie, to easy to make a saw look great or poor performing in a video, wood, operator, chain and tune are all easily manipulated.


Don’t know anyone that wood try and make their Saw look bad but to each his own !!!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I don’t think he really wants to sell a saw


Yeppers - I got his number in about 10sec !!!


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

This junior has ran more saws then you have ever seen, sold between 300-400 saws on here and the site, no videos required, I stand behind every saw I sell.


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

You can tell a lot with your ears.

I’m getting behind here...I will step aside. None of my business


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## Skeans (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> This junior has ran more saws then you have ever seen, sold between 300-400 saws on here and the site, no videos required, I stand behind every saw I sell.



Hey a used car sales man can sell anything but can you lay out a strip or make money with a tool required to lay that strip out? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> This junior has ran more saws then you have ever seen, sold between 300-400 saws on here and the site, no videos required, I stand behind every saw I sell.


I seriously doubt that my friend ... put the shoe on the other foot junior - wood YOU pay $900 sight unseen ? Methinks most wood not !


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

Skeans said:


> Hey a used car sales man can sell anything but can you lay out a strip or make money with a tool required to lay that strip out?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





dustinwilt68 said:


> This junior has ran more saws then you have ever seen, sold between 300-400 saws on here and the site, no videos required, I stand behind every saw I sell.



Tell ya what Junior ... I’ll trade ya this here gen-u-ine Stradivarius piano for that there 064 ! Lfmao


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

Hay! I just threw a 500.00 $ deposit on some straw bales sight unseen. And I can’t even run that **** even when it gets here for a considerable amount of more money.


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

It’s only money..,


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 5, 2018)

Greeeeen Acres is the place to be !!!


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

No, cal-I-for-ni-a is the place you wanna be.

So they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverley....


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## holeycow (Nov 5, 2018)

I better shut it down. Gettin delerious.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 5, 2018)

I was happy to send you pics of the saw, piston, even a compression reading. After that, it's your decision, I describe every saw I sell to the best of my ability, flaws and the positive, it has worked very well for me, never a complaint, I have refunded $ one time, no questions asked and not a problem, my reputation is above reproach and I plan on keeping it that way. Been around saws my entire life, my dad was a logger, you would be hard pressed to find anyone else who sells the number of saws I do, I go over every saw before I list them, unless I clearly mark them as project saws, those are priced accordingly. Frank you can talk all the game you want, I have been there and done that when it comes to saws. I have seen people like you come and go, when you are gone, I will be here yet, providing good saws at a fair price.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I was happy to send you pics of the saw, piston, even a compression reading. After that, it's your decision, I describe every saw I sell to the best of my ability, flaws and the positive, it has worked very well for me, never a complaint, I have refunded $ one time, no questions asked and not a problem, my reputation is above reproach and I plan on keeping it that way. Been around saws my entire life, my dad was a logger, you would be hard pressed to find anyone else who sells the number of saws I do, I go over every saw before I list them, unless I clearly mark them as project saws, those are priced accordingly. Frank you can talk all the game you want, I have been there and done that when it comes to saws. I have seen people like you come and go, when you are gone, I will be here yet, providing good saws at a fair price.


Right-O brother ! Good luck in the future ...


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Thank you.


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 6, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I thought you liked the way it runs


I do, but this is what I purchased it for. Pretty much nothing I own is stock or normal. Wait until you see my 50 ton fast log splitter.
I have issues


----------



## holeycow (Nov 6, 2018)

I’m pretty sure nobody around here is stock or normal.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Thank





dustinwilt68 said:


> I was happy to send you pics of the saw, piston, even a compression reading. After that, it's your decision, I describe every saw I sell to the best of my ability, flaws and the positive, it has worked very well for me, never a complaint, I have refunded $ one time, no questions asked and not a problem, my reputation is above reproach and I plan on keeping it that way. Been around saws my entire life, my dad was a logger, you would be hard pressed to find anyone else who sells the number of saws I do, I go over every saw before I list them, unless I clearly mark them as project saws, those are priced accordingly. Frank you can talk all the game you want, I have been there and done that when it comes to saws. I have seen people like you come and go, when you are gone, I will be here yet, providing good saws at a fair price.


perhaps you would have ... all I received was a pic of 3 saws ... one on left no air filter , middle one you said not for sale and one on right was the ported one ... not trying to tell someone who has sold 300-400 hundred saws how to run their business (cause frankly it’s none of mine ) but if I were selling saws (especially to people out of state) I wood at least have a video of the saw running and making cuts in a log - it’s common courtesy/sense and wood lead to a lot more sales for you guaranteed ! Ok junior I’ll get off the soapbox now lol !!!!


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Whatever Fabz, probably for the best, my saws and I am.happy to keep them, 064s have a special place here


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Whatever Fabz, probably for the best, my saws and I am.happy to keep them, 064s have a special place here


Well at least they start/run right junior? Lol


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

They all run very well


----------



## Lowhog (Nov 6, 2018)

I purchased a ms362cm from a fellow forum member, he did a muffler mod on it. The 362 had a total of 3 tanks run through it when I got it. After I ran 4 or 5 tanks through it really came alive. I would say it would keep up with my ms440 in 6 to 12 inch. Not sure on bigger stuff.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

Lowhog said:


> I purchased a ms362cm from a fellow forum member, he did a muffler mod on it. The 362 had a total of 3 tanks run through it when I got it. After I ran 4 or 5 tanks through it really came alive. I would say it would keep up with my ms440 in 6 to 12 inch. Not sure on bigger stuff.


Yah ... properly s/u with a 18” b/c they will rip thru 16” or less wood with authority ... I have one and it purrs like a kitten and drives like a Cadillac!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

Yah ... I much prefer the 362cm to the 562xp! The 362cm I built has the stocker outcut over 20% - that’s a lot of wood in a days cutting ... starts runs and cuts ... buddies 562xp back in shop again carb ; he’s gonna get rid of it and get the 362cm


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

He will be disappointed


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> He will be disappointed


 Nah ... not at all lol


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Ooh yeah he will.....


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

both ported ... husky a click quicker but STIHL sounds throatier and has way less rpm in the cut


----------



## cuinrearview (Nov 6, 2018)

That's the lamest vs. vid I've ever seen. Different bars and chains. Cutting punky wood. That right there is EXACTLY why vids don't mean a damn thing.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Exactly my point Tim!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Ooh yeah he will.....



Lol ! The guy cuttin needs to wear pants ... are those legs or lawn jarts !!!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> That's the lamest vs. vid I've ever seen. Different bars and chains. Cutting punky wood. That right there is EXACTLY why vids don't mean a damn thing.


Don’t complain ! Suggest something better !


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> That's the lamest vs. vid I've ever seen. Different bars and chains. Cutting punky wood. That right there is EXACTLY why vids don't mean a damn thing.


Right ! If I had a 562xp I’d do a comparison myself - best you’re gonna get off the cuff


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Right ! If I had a 562xp I’d do a comparison myself - best you’re gonna get off the cuff


But I don’t have one , nor will I ever own one - too many issues with that 562xp ... when/if they run the 562xp is strong Saw ... methinks me 362cm will STIHL be cuttin long after the husky is in the scrap heap !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

You realize you are answering your own posts at this point? Maybe a mental health check is in order.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You realize you are answering your own posts at this point? Maybe a mental health check is in order.





Or perhaps an 064 instead !!!


----------



## Huntaholic (Nov 6, 2018)

Ive got to say, after 2 days now of running a 562 in the woods Im pretty much sold on it being the best little saw Ive ever had in my hands. I don't normally run anything under 70cc but this thing will cut with a 70cc saw! The only place it shows its small size is if you bear down on it and load it up it will stall faster than a bigger saw. BUT if your chain is sharp and let it set its own pace its like a tazmanian devil. Another thing running it has done is cause me to want to try the 572 when and if it ever makes it to our shores. If a 60cc saw can outkick its coverage by 10cc then theres a chance the 572 could cut with the 80cc class saws and THAT would be IMPRESSIVE!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 6, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> Ive got to say, after 2 days now of running a 562 in the woods Im pretty much sold on it being the best little saw Ive ever had in my hands. I don't normally run anything under 70cc but this thing will cut with a 70cc saw! The only place it shows its small size is if you bear down on it and load it up it will stall faster than a bigger saw. BUT if your chain is sharp and let it set its own pace its like a tazmanian devil. Another thing running it has done is cause me to want to try the 572 when and if it ever makes it to our shores. If a 60cc saw can outkick its coverage by 10cc then theres a chance the 572 could cut with the 80cc class saws and THAT would be IMPRESSIVE!


Glad you're having fun with the 562. Only issue I have with mine is in warm temperatures. Ran a 572 in 90° temps and it didn't miss a beat, super smooth, great ergonomics, a bit heavy for it's size, but the great ergonomics made up for it IMHO.


----------



## holeycow (Nov 6, 2018)

Well, finally settled.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

So ... after many posts the “King of 60cc saws” is ??? I say STIHL MS 362cm ... superior construction and longevity ... can also be modded inexpensively for nice gains !


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 6, 2018)

Am I one of the few that's ran a 362 and 562 stock and ported quite a bit ?


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

I think most agree the 562xp is the king of the 60cc saws stock, ported the 365 oe rules the roost, just look at what saw owns 4 cube racing.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Am I one of the few that's ran a 362 and 562 stock and ported quite a bit ?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I think most agree the 562xp is the king of the 60cc saws stock, ported the 365 oe rules the roost, just look at what saw owns 4 cube racing.


https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/60-cc-king.326094/


----------



## holeycow (Nov 6, 2018)

Frank Rizzo said:


> So ... after many posts the “King of 60cc saws” is ??? I say STIHL MS 362cm ... superior construction and longevity ... can also be modded inexpensively for nice gains !



Huh. Guess it’s not settled.


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

You do realize the 2260 is essentially the same saw as a 562 right?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> You do realize the 2260 is essentially the same saw as a 562 right?


Yah ... I started a thread where we can all vote on which Saw is king ... let the membership speak !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Then the 2260/562/560 should be one selection


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Then the 2260/562/560 should be one selection


Listen Here Junior ... don’t rain on my parade k ? You are more than welcome to start your own thread with whatever choices you desire


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Aah don't like a fair choice there Franko?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Aah don't like a fair choice there Franko?


Yah ! “Fair choice” according to Dustin ! Lol ... if ya don’t like the choices start your own thread there junior !


----------



## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Your just trying to split the vote on the same basic saw, just different color and bar option, someone has to educate you poor fool.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Your just trying to split the vote on the same basic saw, just different color and bar option, someone has to educate you poor fool.


You are about as sharp as a bowling-ball There junior ... were you dropped on your head as a small child ?


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

I will keep schooling you all day and all night there Franko!


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I will keep schooling you all day and all night there Franko!


Yah ! That’ll be the day ... oh and the 562xp is losing to the STIHL with more votes to be cast ... put your bib on junior ... got a big piece of humble pie to swallow


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Want be no pie for me, your poll is flawed from.the get go, biased as always.


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## Huntaholic (Nov 6, 2018)

I refuse to play in a game with a stacked deck when somebody else holds all the cards.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

Huntaholic said:


> I refuse to play in a game with a stacked deck when somebody else holds all the cards.


Smart man


----------



## Huntaholic (Nov 6, 2018)

Its kinda like the way ford says its the best selling truck in the USA but they classify chevy and gmc as 2 separate trucks. Wonder how those numbers would look if they were combined?


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I think most agree the 562xp is the king of the 60cc saws stock, ported the 365 oe rules the roost, just look at what saw owns 4 cube racing.



Stock..ya it's a tick faster.

Ported..not in the real world, get them both run in good and there really isn't a difference other than preferance.

I'll agree the 5 series Huskies handle very well...but that is a personal thing, to each there own.

I have a standard carbed 362 that's ported that pulls a 28" bar with no trouble whatsoever, my ported m-tron model doesn't fear it either.

"Better" is purely subjective.


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## dustinwilt68 (Nov 6, 2018)

Ding ding, Franko is trying to split the vote on the 562, we all know the 2260 is the same basic saw, so everyone vote the 562 and show Franko.


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## Frank Rizzo (Nov 6, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> Ding ding, Franko is trying to split the vote on the 562, we all know the 2260 is the same basic saw, so everyone vote the 562 and show Franko.


Yeppers ... we shall see very soon junior !


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## Oldsawnut (Nov 9, 2018)

I never understood the cc classification voting. Doesn't make sense... Should be 12lb saw class which is what a 60cc saw should weigh to me. You have the dolkita and husky 365 in there that weigh the same as the 70cc class. Awesome cutting saws but just chubby to be included in a real 60cc shoot out.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Nov 11, 2018)

I totally agree with those who choose the 70cc over 60cc current saws since i too have run 361 362 562 6420 365 630super etc etc and they all seem like 70cc weight to me, but of those i personally like the 365 special due to durability and ability to convert to low to 372xp, its a real nice saw, 20 years ago it was a refined saw and still doesnt seem outdated still to me. 

One saw i have that is a "true" 60cc and is probably lighter than all those listed is the Stihl 034 super, something like 4.6hp in sub 12 lbs, power to weight is amazing, it does seem outdated though. Not sure if it gained weight when it became the Stihl 036. I have never had a Husky 262xp, though i would expect it to be great, and it shares the same 48mm bore and 34 stroke as the 034s/036.


----------



## CHOP...CHOP... (Dec 20, 2018)




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## bmcdjohnson (Dec 22, 2018)

MS362 version 2, non m-tronic


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

Just when you think a post is dead...

Echo cs620 with a 32"tsumura bar and JGX chain. Did another video with LGX, will be posting that too. Spoiler alert, It didn't care about that chain either.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 7, 2019)

064 with K/N filter and velocity stack 064 that’s 64cc right ?


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> 064 with K/N filter and velocity stack 064 that’s 64cc right ?



You wish


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 7, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> 064 that’s 64cc right ?


85


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

I think he knows.


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 7, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I think he knows.


But does he know that this a thread about 60cc class saws???


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> But does he know that this a thread about 60cc class saws???


I would say. .. Yes


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 7, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I would say. .. Yes


There may have been a moment he did, but I'd take that bet.


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> There may have been a moment he did, but I'd take that bet.


Either way he's perplexed


----------



## shadco (Jan 7, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> 85




But isn't that an MS241 in the video?

.


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 7, 2019)

shadco said:


> But isn't that an MS241 in the video?
> 
> .


He is a specialist...


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

I'm just here to see if anyone has a video of a husky or stihl (60cc Franky boy) that can pull a 32" bar like that with just a muffler mod. I've seen 562xp fully ported do similar, but I wouldn't even try that bar on my example.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 7, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I'm just here to see if anyone has a video of a husky or stihl (60cc Franky boy) that can pull a 32" bar like that with just a muffler mod. I've seen 562xp fully ported do similar, but I wouldn't even try that bar on my example.


362c can PULL it no problem ... trouble is OILING it !


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> 362c can PULL it no problem ... trouble is OILING it !


Show me


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Show me


And there was no such oiling problem with the cs with either chain.


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 7, 2019)

I can't tell if this is a 28" or 32", but it ain't havin' any trouble with it. Sounds like a stock muffler too.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> I can't tell if this is a 28" or 32", but it ain't havin' any trouble with it. Sounds like a stock muffler too.



28" at the most. I've herd those things run. I had the cs noodling in hardwood which is a bit harder, but hey this is a step in the right direction and I appreciate the post. All this talk... Let's see it. I cut around all these saws just like many of you. I don't see 1/2 the claims pan out in person. Let's see what you are talking about in action.


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## hayseed79 (Jan 7, 2019)

Gotta go with a 262!!!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 7, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> 28" at the most. I've herd those things run. I had the cs noodling in hardwood which is a bit harder, but hey this is a step in the right direction and I appreciate the post. All this talk... Let's see it. I cut around all these saws just like many of you. I don't see 1/2 the claims pan out in person. Let's see what you are talking about in action.


The 362c is torn-down waiting for piston circlip ... when it is assembled I can run it . Don’t have the R model with the H.O. Oiler so 25” bar is it’s limit ... it’s set/up for an 18” anyhoo ... if I need run a larger bar I use a larger power head cause I’m tryin to pay da bills


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

Scary part is this saw is still cutting faster with LGX in hardwood with a 32" bar. That tells me it has more.


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 7, 2019)

Now just think what it's going to be like ported.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 7, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Now just think what it's going to be like ported.


Yah , all I have is the pre-port job video of da 362c ... just waiting on parts


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

362c Hot woods port with my machined aluminum intake and oiled K/N filter ... you’re lookin at the 60cc KING !!!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

064 for comparison ... 85cc K/N filter velocity stack


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

I don't know, sounds like it's working hard with that little girly bar.


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## fulladirt (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I don't know, sounds like it's working hard with that little girly bar.



Yep! And sounds like it has mud daubers in the muffler and velocity slack.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I don't know, sounds like it's working hard with that little girly bar.


And it will STIHL be working hard , Long after the Echo pukes it’s balls ! That saw was built for 16-20” bar and that’s what she runs ! And boy does she run !!! ... I’ll run it against me muffler modded 441c with the same 18” bar in same wood .... I betcha the 362c will beat it by a fuzz ! The KING of the 60cc saws !!!!!!!!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I don't know, sounds like it's working hard with that little girly bar.


Yah , I’m reefing on it , notice it don’t stall - STIHL torque my friend ! Well maybe someday use guys’ll come around !


----------



## CHOP...CHOP... (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> 362c Hot woods port with my machined aluminum intake and oiled K/N filter ... you’re lookin at the 60cc KING !!!



This video was brought to you by 
Dream on productions 



Lame video Rizzo really Lame


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Now just think what it's going to be like ported.


Yah , let’s see it ported ! I looked up the saw and bar lengths are from 16-27 on that saw ... 32” is bigger powerhead territory if you’re tryin to pay the bills !


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

CHOP...CHOP... said:


> This video was brought to you by
> Dream on productions
> View attachment 696377
> 
> ...


Think so huh ? Where’s YOUR Saw big- mouth ? Or are you another keyboard warrior ? Yeah post up some saw vids for us there slappy ...


----------



## CHOP...CHOP... (Jan 11, 2019)

I like the videos of you on your mom's washing machine the best Frank.

The washing machine works man stick to what works FRANK.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

CHOP...CHOP... said:


> I like the videos of you on your mom's washing machine the best Frank.
> 
> The washing machine works man stick to what works FRANK.


Yah , talk is cheep there fruitcake ... if ya wanna run your mouth ya gotta show some Saw-vids , get it ? Real simple ... seems to me you got nothin but hot-air pal ... all windup no pitch , all sizzle NO steak !!! Lmfao


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

I'd just put the 24" bar and go up a tooth or so driver. I mean if I keep going up in driver till my 620 is working as hard as that 362 my chain will surely melt off.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> I'd just put the 24" bar and go up a tooth or so driver. I mean if I keep going up in driver till my 620 is working as hard as that 362 my chain will surely melt off.


Never keep up with that 362c in a million years ! You can run a 32” and make one cut ... I’ll put on an 18” and buzz thru 1/2 and walk around to the other end and do the other end and STIHL have time to smoke a cigar and drink an ale before you finish lol !!!


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Never keep up with that 362c in a million years ! You can run a 32” and make one cut ... I’ll put on an 18” and buzz thru 1/2 and walk around to the other end and do the other end and STIHL have time to smoke a cigar and drink an ale before you finish lol !!!


I don't believe you. I'm looking at that chip production. Screw that high reving sound, chip production is cutting speed. One size up driver is all I'd probably need, though I'm sure at sub 24" bar lengths I could easily go 2, maybe more. And Im doing that, dropping bar size and continually upping the driver till it is under load. Chain speed is everything given the same chain specs. How you get to it is up to you. Your saw is already under load. Good luck


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

And then, just maybe it will get cylinder porting. LoL


----------



## CHOP...CHOP... (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Never keep up with that 362c in a million years ! You can run a 32” and make one cut ... I’ll strap on an 18” dent puller and plow threw slick fifty and walk around to the other end of slick do him there as well and STIHL have time to smoke slicks fifty's pole and drink juice out of his rocket jammed azz before you finish lol !!!


Dream on Frank


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> And then, just maybe it will get cylinder porting. LoL


Porting will help ... IF the guy doing the work knows what he is doing


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Porting will help ... IF the guy doing the work knows what he is doing


Absolutely, which isn't necessarily me. I mean just about every saw will like a gasket delete with the associated port correction. Maybe even widen them up if possible. This is what I usually do to my saws, but to really gain you need to play with a few jugs of a perticular saw. You know, figure out what that exact model needs to run. I'm not that guy beings this is my first 620, but I have been talking to someone who does and has figured out what they like. I'd be a fool to think I could do better, so when it's time he will get my beloved 620. It will be the first engine I've ever let someone else mod for me, saw, car, truck and bike included.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Absolutely, which isn't necessarily me. I mean just about every saw will like a gasket delete with the associated port correction. Maybe even widen them up if possible. This is what I usually do to my saws, but to really gain you need to play with a few jugs of a perticular saw. You know, figure out what that exact model needs to run. I'm not that guy beings this is my first 620, but I have been talking to someone who does and has figured out what they like. I'd be a fool to think I could do better, so when it's time he will get my beloved 620. It will be the first engine I've ever let someone else mod for me, saw, car, truck and bike included.


 Yah .... the echo 620 is a great bang for the buck ... but when compared to a 362c it falls short .... the 620 has 4.02hp the STIHL 4.69 for the same 59cc displacement; when ported its gets worse for the echo - I’ve never done a 620 but can get 20% + increase the Stihls ... 4.69 (.2) = 5.62hp ... the Echo 4.02 (.2) = 4.82hp .... you will simply NOT outcut another Saw in the same wood with same bar/and chain , gearing giving up .8hp (or better) ; I’m not even bringing up the “dog it in factor “ either ! The Echo is a fine Saw for the money I agree ! If you’re trying to pay the bills , then run ported STIHLS !


----------



## hseII (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Never keep up with that 362c in a million years ! You can run a 32” and make one cut ... I’ll put on an 18” and buzz thru 1/2 and walk around to the other end and do the other end and STIHL have time to smoke a cigar and drink an ale before you finish lol !!!



Frank,

I am going to again extend you a personal invitation to come show your saws & chains for everyone to run & to see, live & in person at the Upstate NY GTG in May of this year, 2019, in Greenwich, NY. 

The Cutting Edge will be hosting it.

A Great Event & it would be nice for you to show us how to do it with a saw. 

This would be the perfect opportunity to shut those nay sayers down.

I Hope to see you there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

hseII said:


> Frank,
> 
> I am going to again extend you a personal invitation to come show your saws & chains for everyone to run & to see, live & in person at the Upstate NY GTG in May of this year, 2019, in Greenwich, NY.
> 
> ...


Don’t know if I’m gonna show you “how to do it with a Saw “ lol but by then I hope to have my piped 660 completed and ready to rip ! JS Bertrand is doing the pipe so it shouldn’t lack in the HP department ! He is , after all , a world -record holder


----------



## hseII (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Don’t know if I’m gonna show you “how to do it with a Saw “ lol but by then I hope to have my piped 660 completed and ready to rip !



I’ll see you there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 11, 2019)

hseII said:


> I’ll see you there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


We shall see sir


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah .... the echo 620 is a great bang for the buck ... but when compared to a 362c it falls short .... the 620 has 4.02hp the STIHL 4.69 for the same 59cc displacement; when ported its gets worse for the echo - I’ve never done a 620 but can get 20% + increase the Stihls ... 4.69 (.2) = 5.62hp ... the Echo 4.02 (.2) = 4.82hp .... you will simply NOT outcut another Saw in the same wood with same bar/and chain , gearing giving up .8hp (or better) ; I’m not even bringing up the “dog it in factor “ either ! The Echo is a fine Saw for the money I agree ! If you’re trying to pay the bills , then run ported STIHLS !


It's more then 4.02, I forget the number but it's just a hair off the Husky a Stihl if it means anything.
Come on frank, as any kind of engine modder you should know peak HP is only one aspect of many that makes an engine powerful or not. How fast it's HP drops off on either side of the peak, torque and how broad that is as well. Put up or shut up, 32" bar no internal mods noodling in hardwood. It doesn't even have to be you, find a video, I don't care. Cut the talk. It's not working, not with this guy. I'll help you out, there is no vid of either the 562xp or the 362c with a 32" bar/stock cylinder. I've looked, rather then just started talking ****. There's cylinder ported 562xp videos in soft wood, same with the Stihls . Keep talking or be of use.


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 11, 2019)

Hell at this point I'd even settle for your modded saw with a 32" in hardwood. The way it's working in that vid I don't think it's going to do well. Maybe you should look real hard for that advertised horsepower, might be hiding under something.


----------



## Huskybill (Jan 11, 2019)

The top of the line in 60cc chainsaws to me is the Husqvarna 266SE or XP. This saw became the main stay in my stable with a 18”/20” bar.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It's more then 4.02, I forget the number but it's just a hair off the Husky a Stihl if it means anything.
> Come on frank, as any kind of engine modder you should know peak HP is only one aspect of many that makes an engine powerful or not. How fast it's HP drops off on either side of the peak, torque and how broad that is as well. Put up or shut up, 32" bar no internal mods noodling in hardwood. It doesn't even have to be you, find a video, I don't care. Cut the talk. It's not working, not with this guy. I'll help you out, there is no vid of either the 562xp or the 362c with a 32" bar/stock cylinder. I've looked, rather then just started talking ****. There's cylinder ported 562xp videos in soft wood, same with the Stihls . Keep talking or be of use.


After searching many sources (as echo does not list hp ) the figure I obtained was 3kw which translates to 4.02 hp ... My question to you is why do you desire a 32” bar in a 59cc stock (?) chainsaw regardless of brand ?


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

Huskybill said:


> The top of the line in 60cc chainsaws to me is the Husqvarna 266SE or XP. This saw became the main stay in my stable with a 18”/20” bar.


Yes ! For larger wood (32”) use larger power head (70+ to 90+ cc) !


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It's more then 4.02, I forget the number but it's just a hair off the Husky a Stihl if it means anything.
> Come on frank, as any kind of engine modder you should know peak HP is only one aspect of many that makes an engine powerful or not. How fast it's HP drops off on either side of the peak, torque and how broad that is as well. Put up or shut up, 32" bar no internal mods noodling in hardwood. It doesn't even have to be you, find a video, I don't care. Cut the talk. It's not working, not with this guy. I'll help you out, there is no vid of either the 562xp or the 362c with a 32" bar/stock cylinder. I've looked, rather then just started talking ****. There's cylinder ported 562xp videos in soft wood, same with the Stihls . Keep talking or be of use.


 562xp with 32” bar cutting West Coast timber


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## Huskybill (Jan 12, 2019)

For larger wood and bars from 20”, 24”, 30” up I had the 2100. Sometimes I put a 16” bar on the 2100(99 cc) and destroy some 14” oak trees when it’s ten degrees out.


----------



## Deleted member 135597 (Jan 12, 2019)

hseII said:


> Frank,
> 
> I am going to again extend you a personal invitation to come show your saws & chains for everyone to run & to see, live & in person at the Upstate NY GTG in May of this year, 2019, in Greenwich, NY.
> 
> ...


Bahahahahahahahaha! Imagine fabz and flabz at the same gtg! Fabz will never show, I will bet our mommas life on it. I will be there tho


----------



## Deleted member 135597 (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> We shall see sir


Never happen, whatcha gunna do when someone asks you something and you can’t go on the computer to google the answer?


----------



## Little Al (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> And it will STIHL be working hard , Long after the Echo pukes it’s balls ! That saw was built for 16-20” bar and that’s what she runs ! And boy does she run !!! ... I’ll run it against me muffler modded 441c with the same 18” bar in same wood .... I betcha the 362c will beat it by a fuzz ! The KING of the 60cc saws !!!!!!!!


What's this then the seven stages of "Fwanks" distortion of the truth chapter 2 Who breathed on that one for him ? has he finished his treatment ?


----------



## Skeans (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> After searching many sources (as echo does not list hp ) the figure I obtained was 3kw which translates to 4.02 hp ... My question to you is why do you desire a 32” bar in a 59cc stock (?) chainsaw regardless of brand ?



Because I want a light little falling saw for when I have to pack out on steep ground in the bigger wood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skeans (Jan 12, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It's more then 4.02, I forget the number but it's just a hair off the Husky a Stihl if it means anything.
> Come on frank, as any kind of engine modder you should know peak HP is only one aspect of many that makes an engine powerful or not. How fast it's HP drops off on either side of the peak, torque and how broad that is as well. Put up or shut up, 32" bar no internal mods noodling in hardwood. It doesn't even have to be you, find a video, I don't care. Cut the talk. It's not working, not with this guy. I'll help you out, there is no vid of either the 562xp or the 362c with a 32" bar/stock cylinder. I've looked, rather then just started talking ****. There's cylinder ported 562xp videos in soft wood, same with the Stihls . Keep talking or be of use.



We do it in alder with a 562 32” bar semi skip square chain. Part of this alder patch was cut with that little saw. And to be honest what good is cutting cookies or noodling it’s a chainsaw go fall some timber like it’s made to do.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

Little Al said:


> What's this then the seven stages of "Fwanks" distortion of the truth chapter 2 Who breathed on that one for him ? has he finished his treatment ?


Long live the KING


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Because I want a light little falling saw for when I have to pack out on steep ground in the bigger wood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Point made


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

flabZ said:


> Never happen, whatcha gunna do when someone asks you something and you can’t go on the computer to google the answer?


Don’t google ... simply ask Frank


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Don’t know if I’m gonna show you “how to do it with a Saw “ lol but by then I hope to have my piped 660 completed and ready to rip ! JS Bertrand is doing the pipe so it shouldn’t lack in the HP department ! He is , after all , a world -record holder


I don't believe it for a min, I thought you and him had some big beef lol, you're so full of it!
He doesn't build anything for gtg saws, figured you would know that since your great buddies and all.
Maybe you could have Jack build that pipe for you. 
I think you have some great points on some things, but I still think you have some growing up to do to accept that just because you're right on something doesn't mean you know it all or how to even express what you know in a way that others will take seriously.
Video of you running the piped 660 or I call it a farce, and a picture of it on the washing machine too!


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> I don't believe it for a min, I thought you and him had some big beef lol, you're so full of it!
> He doesn't build anything for gtg saws, figured you would know that since your great buddies and all.
> Maybe you could have Jack build that pipe for you.
> I think you have some great points on some things, but I still think you have some growing up to do to accept that just because you're right on something doesn't mean you know it all or how to even express what you know in a way that others will take seriously.
> Video of you running the piped 660 or I call it a farce, and a picture of it on the washing machine too!


Yah , Jean-Simon is making the pipe - hopefully in my hands by March at latest ... I do not know where this idea of a “beef” between myself and JS came from ??? ... now JS and Snailerizer you wood be correct ; regarding posting carb mod pics - that we all know for a FACT !!! I’m not aware that Jack builds pipes ; I shall inquire ... I do not “know it all” ... FAR from it ... I do know enough however to make certain individuals “uncomfortable” ... touché


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , Jean-Simon is making the pipe - hopefully in my hands by March at latest ... I do not know where this idea of a “beef” between myself and JS came from ??? ... now JS and Snailerizer you wood be correct ; regarding posting carb mod pics - that we all know for a FACT !!! I’m not aware that Jack builds pipes ; I shall inquire ... I do not “know it all” ... FAR from it ... I do know enough however to make certain individuals “uncomfortable” ... touché


Yeah "touche" I'm sure everyone is very uncomfortable.
As said above, I still don't believe it, but now it's all documented so we'll all be waiting to see the 660 paying the bills lol.


----------



## BangBang77 (Jan 12, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> Yeah "touche" I'm sure everyone is very uncomfortable.
> As said above, I still don't believe it, but now it's all documented so we'll all be waiting to see the 660 paying the bills lol.



I'm uncomfortable in the same manner as watching Jerry Springer or Intervention. 

You know it's a trainwreck, you know they rode the short bus to said trainwreck, yet no matter how awkward the "charlie foxtrot" is, your line of sight somehow aligns with it again and again. All the while wondering if someone can really possess a lack of self awareness on an order of magnitude to believe poeple really buy into their schtick.


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## BangBang77 (Jan 12, 2019)

And for the record, that 362 doesn't even appear to be ported. Maybe a muff mod and a filter swap at the most.

Sound quality of the video sucks, but even at that, doesn't sound ported.

Then again, my hearing is somewhat lacking due to excessive automatic weapons fire and a grenade blast damage to my right ear.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

BangBang77 said:


> I'm uncomfortable in the same manner as watching Jerry Springer or Intervention.
> 
> You know it's a trainwreck, you know they rode the short bus to said trainwreck, yet no matter how awkward the "charlie foxtrot" is, your line of sight somehow aligns with it again and again. All the while wondering if someone can really possess a lack of self awareness on an order of magnitude to believe poeple really buy into their schtick.


Never asked you to “buy” anything ... perhaps you should judge others by their work and not some “perceived-ism”


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## stihl sawing (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Think so huh ? Where’s YOUR Saw big- mouth ? Or are you another keyboard warrior ? Yeah post up some saw vids for us there slappy ...


Right here is mine...it'll be runni……………..ok nevermind.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

stihl sawing said:


> Right here is mine...it'll be runni……………..ok nevermind.
> 
> View attachment 696523


Another Snailerized Saw ? I’m glad he checked the chain-brake ! Wtf


----------



## Huskybill (Jan 12, 2019)

Too lean,,,,,


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## stihl sawing (Jan 12, 2019)

I did get a scratch on my knuckle when it blew.


----------



## TBS (Jan 12, 2019)




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## stihl sawing (Jan 12, 2019)

You a black man Frank?

https://www.thecalifornian.com/stor...ks-doorbell-video-reaction-tweets/2527838002/


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## huskihl (Jan 12, 2019)

stihl sawing said:


> You a black man Frank?
> 
> https://www.thecalifornian.com/stor...ks-doorbell-video-reaction-tweets/2527838002/


Did you scroll down far enough to see the jokes? Lmao


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> I don't believe it for a min, I thought you and him had some big beef lol, you're so full of it!
> He doesn't build anything for gtg saws, figured you would know that since your great buddies and all.
> Maybe you could have Jack build that pipe for you.
> I think you have some great points on some things, but I still think you have some growing up to do to accept that just because you're right on something doesn't mean you know it all or how to even express what you know in a way that others will take seriously.
> Video of you running the piped 660 or I call it a farce, and a picture of it on the washing machine too!


 here is the link http://pages.videotron.com/saws/product/chainsaw.htm ... click link for chainsaws equipment ... if you’re initials are BS I don’t think he will do business with you lol ! Here is a pic of the 660 torn-down for flow enhancements!


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## chipper1 (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> here is the link http://pages.videotron.com/saws/product/chainsaw.htm ... click link for chainsaws equipment ... if you’re initials are BS I don’t think he will do business with you lol ! Here is a pic of the 660 torn-down for flow enhancements! View attachment 696619





Frank Rizzo said:


> Don’t google ... simply ask Frank


Looks to me as though you googled it, I know of his website along with other builders sites.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> Looks to me as though you googled it, I know of his website along with other builders sites.


Yah ... just providing info - you said you didn’t believe it ... well believe it now ! The 660 needs to be assembled and tested/tuned with modded muffler... the pipe will be finished by March and more testing will be required


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## chipper1 (Jan 12, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah ... just providing info - you said you didn’t believe it ... well believe it now ! The 660 needs to be assembled and tested/tuned with modded muffler... the pipe will be finished by March and more testing will be required


Yah...


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## Hoggwood (Jan 12, 2019)

Fresh 82' and '84 630's still pack a formidable punch in the deck. Much to the dismay of the those that proudly show up with their new orange and whites.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 12, 2019)

Hoggwood said:


> Fresh 82' and '84 630's still pack a formidable punch in the deck. Much to the dismay of the those that proudly show up with their new orange and whites.
> 
> View attachment 696641


Comparable to a STIHL 036 ... I’m sure they STIHL pack a punch almost 37 years later lol ... don’t own any but have heard they are easier to work on than the Stihls , are parts STIHL readily available?


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## Hoggwood (Jan 13, 2019)

They pull with more authority than any factory 036's I own and have run. At least in the wood in these parts. I have a stock 361. Certainly faster chain speed in the smaller stuff but the 630's with gasket delete and modest advance start to show their nuts in the 20"+. Mean instead of scream. Get the appropriate era 61 carcasses and with an open-windowed Meteor, you can mix and match them for the next 50 years. So, yes, parts are readily available. Cranks, coils, bearings, seals, fw's, pumps and so on. In all honesty, saying they are easier to work on than anything German would be an understatement.

I pick up most all of my projects from the local free-and-under Smithrite. I could never justify dropping $800+ on a new 60cc saw, as I don't make a living in the forestry industry. I am a firewood/saw enthusiast that happens to rebuild pretty much any saw I can get my hands on. An equal saw opportunist, I am. I can appreciate a design that pushes 40 years old, sits _well_ into the modernly equivalent 4 hp range and manages to put as much wood on the ground at the end of the day. Kinda disappointing that Stihl has had 35+ years and billions of fan dollars to come up with their latest design and they can only squeeze out .3 more hp in stock form than an old Jonsereds 630. 

That's just me though.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 13, 2019)

Hoggwood said:


> They pull with more authority than any factory 036's I own and have run. At least in the wood in these parts. I have a stock 361. Certainly faster chain speed in the smaller stuff but the 630's with gasket delete and modest advance start to show their nuts in the 20"+. Mean instead of scream. Get the appropriate era 61 carcasses and with an open-windowed Meteor, you can mix and match them for the next 50 years. So, yes, parts are readily available. Cranks, coils, bearings, seals, fw's, pumps and so on. In all honesty, saying they are easier to work on than anything German would be an understatement.
> 
> I pick up most all of my projects from the local free-and-under Smithrite. I could never justify dropping $800+ on a new 60cc saw, as I don't make a living in the forestry industry. I am a firewood/saw enthusiast that happens to rebuild pretty much any saw I can get my hands on. An equal saw opportunist, I am. I can appreciate a design that pushes 40 years old, sits _well_ into the modernly equivalent 4 hp range and manages to put as much wood on the ground at the end of the day. Kinda disappointing that Stihl has had 35+ years and billions of fan dollars to come up with their latest design and they can only squeeze out .3 more hp in stock form than an old Jonsereds 630.
> 
> That's just me though.


Yah , it seems the “old iron” holds its own against the new “stratos-charged, epa friendly saws” whether it be Jonsereds or even the older Macs ... As long as parts are available and one has the skills to fix / modify to suit then I agree ... Now the newer models have auto-tune (husky) , mtronic (STIHL) (and even Echo is releasing a version of auto-carb) and ARE lighter and possess better AV but I agree that the actual HP hasn’t gone up much new vs old ... Now ported/modded May tell a different story but ... will these new “ cleaner-burning “ epa compliant saws be around and running in 37yrs ? I have an 064 that a kind member here helped me obtain and it’s a runner , simple , straightforward manual carb and it’s pushing 30 trips around the sun itself !


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## Oldsawnut (Jan 13, 2019)

Hoggwood said:


> Fresh 82' and '84 630's still pack a formidable punch in the deck. Much to the dismay of the those that proudly show up with their new orange and whites.



Awesome saws like the husky 61 but electronic parts are getting tough to find and lets face it weight wise they are more in the 70cc class. like the jred 670 or husky 272.. They have some amazing torque for a 60cc saw. And tough as nails...


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 14, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Scary part is this saw is still cutting faster with LGX in hardwood with a 32" bar. That tells me it has more.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 14, 2019)

I'd take


Huskybill said:


> The top of the line in 60cc chainsaws to me is the Husqvarna 266SE or XP. This saw became the main stay in my stable with a 18”/20” bar.


 I'D take a 266 over a 562xp any day


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 14, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> 562xp with 32” bar cutting West Coast timber[/QUOTE
> Ported and softwood.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 14, 2019)

Yah ... ???


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 14, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> After searching many sources (as echo does not list hp ) the figure I obtained was 3kw which translates to 4.02 hp ... My question to you is why do you desire a 32” bar in a 59cc stock (?) chainsaw regardless of brand ?


It's listed at 4.5. The 600 was listed at 4.02
And echo got the 4.5 with a longer stroke then the Husky and stihl. So the echo will always bring higher torque with a better curve to the table.
As for the 32" bar? Why not? Seems like a much better way to test a saws power out then sitting there flapping your gums Frank. I have bigger saws and that 32 ain't staying on the 620, it was just to see if it could dominate it like it did the 24,28 and 30. I mean manufacturers make bigger power heads for these bars because it takes more power to run them right? But thanks for that video of the fully ported 562xp, you helped further prove my point. Because if you need a fully ported 562xp to run a 32 in softwood I'm pretty ****ing sure that makes the stock port echo pulling the same bar on harder wood doing a much harder cut (noodling) more powerful. Kind of hard to argue this I'd think.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 14, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It's listed at 4.5. The 600 was listed at 4.02
> Its a great example of potential and power. 4.5 and did it with a longer stroke. So the echo will always bring higher torque with a better curve to the table.
> As for the 32" bar? Why not? Seems like a much better way to test a saws power out then sitting there flapping your gums Frank. I have bigger sass and that 32 ain't staying on the 620, it was just to see if it could dominate it like it did the 24,28 and 30. I mean manufacturers make bigger power heads for these bars because it takes more power to run them right? But thanks for that video of the fully ported 562xp, you helped further prove my point. Because if you need a fully ported 562xp to run a 32 in softwood I'm pretty ****ing sure that makes the stock port echo pulling the same bar on harder wood doing a much harder cut (noodling) more powerful. Kind of hard to argue this I'd think.


Yah , can you send me some of your stash bro ?  ... like I said bro ... I’d Halve one chunk, walk over to the other halve that , then Light a cigar and consume at minimum one ale by the time ya got thru both chunks with your 4.5hp echo! That’s maple hardwood also and with a better chain I could probably slice thru one piece in about 18-20 sec


----------



## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 14, 2019)

With your ported-short bar saw I guess you would. Don't remember this post being about the best modded 60cc saw, but I'd still like you to do the same cut with a 32"


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 14, 2019)

You can only prove your point by comparing ported saws with shorter bars to a stock cylinder echo and your asking for my stash? You are clearly the byproduct of two 70s hippies with a dash of LSD and a side of dust.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 14, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> You can only prove your point by comparing ported saws with shorter bars to a stock cylinder echo and your asking for my stash? You are clearly the byproduct of two 70s hippies with a dash of LSD and a side of dust.


Yah ... I’m sure the echo could be made to run a lot stronger ... send me the Saw along with a few of those special brownies and I’ll get right on it k


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## TBS (Jan 14, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , can you send me some of your stash bro ?  ... like I said bro ... I’d Halve one chunk, walk over to the other halve that , then Light a cigar and consume at minimum one ale by the time ya got thru both chunks with your 4.5hp echo! That’s maple hardwood also and with a better chain I could probably slice thru one piece in about 18-20 sec




So take away 1 extra full round that the echo was cutting and it would keep up with you even though you were cutting through the crotch on your round.


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## TBS (Jan 14, 2019)

Echos power specs listed for each saw.
http://www.echotools.com/products/category/contents_type=26


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## Skeans (Jan 14, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It's listed at 4.5. The 600 was listed at 4.02
> And echo got the 4.5 with a longer stroke then the Husky and stihl. So the echo will always bring higher torque with a better curve to the table.
> As for the 32" bar? Why not? Seems like a much better way to test a saws power out then sitting there flapping your gums Frank. I have bigger saws and that 32 ain't staying on the 620, it was just to see if it could dominate it like it did the 24,28 and 30. I mean manufacturers make bigger power heads for these bars because it takes more power to run them right? But thanks for that video of the fully ported 562xp, you helped further prove my point. Because if you need a fully ported 562xp to run a 32 in softwood I'm pretty ****ing sure that makes the stock port echo pulling the same bar on harder wood doing a much harder cut (noodling) more powerful. Kind of hard to argue this I'd think.








Stock 562 with a 32 in a 5+ foot cedar.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deleted member 135597 (Jan 15, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah ... I’m sure the echo could be made to run a lot stronger ... send me the Saw along with a few of those special brownies and I’ll get right on it k


no one in their right mind wood even send you a stool sample let alone a chainsaw


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## Little Al (Jan 15, 2019)

flabZ said:


> no one in their right mind wood send you a stool sample let alone a chainsaw


So which of Fwanks Clones actually do the saw work? if any, &which is responsible for posting video's of other's guys work& claiming it as his etc.


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## Deleted member 135597 (Jan 15, 2019)

Little Al said:


> So which of Fwanks Clones actually do the saw work? if any, &which is responsible for posting video's of other's guys work& claiming it as his etc.


that wood be frank rizzo


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Stock 562 with a 32 in a 5+ foot cedar.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome, still an easier cut then noodling oak though


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

TheBrushSlasher said:


> Echos power specs listed for each saw.
> http://www.echotools.com/products/category/contents_type=26


So beings its proven Ole Franky boy is proven wrong on one thing can we just extrapolate that's he's wrong about everything?


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## cuinrearview (Jan 15, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> So beings its proven Ole Franky boy is proven wrong on one thing can we just extrapolate that's he's wrong about everything?


Where have you been?
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-is-the-bigger-jack-off.327392/


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> Where have you been?
> https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-is-the-bigger-jack-off.327392/


I'm slow and busy, but thanks. I just casted my vote.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 15, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> So beings its proven Ole Franky boy is proven wrong on one thing can we just extrapolate that's he's wrong about everything?


Yeah , actually that link is not from the USA as it lists kw / ps not HP as I stated ! There is a conversion from ps to hp so once again in your attempts to “prove me wrong” you have stepped on your wiener ! Out !


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## chipper1 (Jan 15, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> So beings its proven Ole Franky boy is proven wrong on one thing can we just extrapolate that's he's wrong about everything?


I'm not a fanboy of his by any means, but you realize you would be wrong about everything if we held you to the same standard .


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yeah , actually that link is not from the USA as it lists kw / ps not HP as I stated ! There is a conversion from ps to hp so once again in your attempts to “prove me wrong” you have stepped on your wiener ! Out !



You do realize you are using and arguing about a Stat that's not even standardized right? Like some manufacturers rate it at bar tip while others rate it at powerhead. And the fact that you would even use a manufacturers rated power in an argument as a modder yourself says world's. But even if so, how does that echo drag that LGX chain on a 32" bar through hardwood? Unicorns and fairy dust? Sure doesn't look like that rating is off to me, but what do u know.


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## TBS (Jan 15, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yeah , actually that link is not from the USA as it lists kw / ps not HP as I stated ! There is a conversion from ps to hp so once again in your attempts to “prove me wrong” you have stepped on your wiener ! Out !



It still counts since these saws are sold outside of the u.s. too. For the echo 620 4.52 ps = 4.47 horsepower.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

http://slugaservice-com.3dcartstores.com/assets/html/S_specs.html

As I've herd from various sources, looks likes Stihls numbers aren't all that exact. Least echo measures theirs from the bar tip, not the power head. 
If we are indeed still using these numbers


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

TheBrushSlasher said:


> It still counts since these saws are sold outside of the u.s. too. For the echo 620 4.52 ps = 4.47 horsepower.


Personally I wouldn't exactly go by anyone's numbers when it comes to saws, but thanks for this. A peak HP number is really a small aspect of what an engine can do. And that goes for all engines, and while Ive only built a Couple of handful of saws I've built a hell of a lot of engines in general. Two, four, diesels of both, dirt bikes.... Even tractors. Anyone who knows engines and tries to use a non standardized rating which is supposed to be of peak HP is degrading themselves.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 15, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Personally I wouldn't exactly go by anyone's numbers when it comes to saws, but thanks for this. A peak HP number is really a small aspect of what an engine can do. And that goes for all engines, and while Ive only built a Couple of handful of saws I've built a hell of a lot of engines in general. Two, four, diesels of both, dirt bikes.... Even tractors. Anyone who knows engines and tries to use a non standardized rating which is supposed to be of peak HP is degrading themselves.


Well the only way to know for sure is to Dyno it ... have one ? If not you are pissing in the wind my friend !


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Well the only way to know for sure is to Dyno it ... have one ? If not you are pissing in the wind my friend !


From talking with several individuals who mod saws, most believe you'd never get accurate readings on small scavenger engines with a dyno. Definitely from dyno to dyno, while they might be good for comparing two engines on the same dyno. But numbers wouldnt be exact from what I've gathered. Kind of brings up a good point, I wonder when the US will force a standardized power rating. It's happened to most other things, outboard motors for boats is a relatively recent one. Maybe 10 to 15 years ago, now all are rated at they prop by mandates.


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 15, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> From talking with several individuals who mod saws, most believe you'd never get accurate readings on small scavenger engines with a dyno. Definitely from dyno to dyno, while they might be good for comparing two engines on the same dyno. But numbers wouldnt be exact from what I've gathered. Kind of brings up a good point, I wonder when the US will force a standardized power rating. It's happened to most other things, outboard motors for boats is a relatively recent one. Maybe 10 to 15 years ago, now all are rated at they prop by mandates.


Who is telling you a Dyno won’t work on a Saw ? This is nonsense!


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Well the only way to know for sure is to Dyno it ... have one ? If not you are pissing in the wind my friend !


Just as the stinky pirate is now wrong about everything, your now pissing in the wind yourself, unless you also have a Dyno .


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 15, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> Just as the stinky pirate is now wrong about everything, your now pissing in the wind yourself, unless you also have a Dyno .


Or do a GTG where everything could be settled with the same bar and chain...


----------



## NeSurfcaster (Jan 15, 2019)

exact


cuinrearview said:


> Or do a GTG where everything could be settled with the same bar and chain...


Exactly, best way to compare 2 saws


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 15, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> Or do a GTG where everything could be settled with the same bar and chain...


That's right and I'll run them both and make sure the best husky wins .


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 15, 2019)

NeSurfcaster said:


> exact
> 
> Exactly, best way to compare 2 saws


Even that has variables, but it should give a bit more accurate comparison. It always helps when everyone is open to a saw other than their champion winning, if not the whining about this condition and that chain or fuel... always happens.


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 15, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> Even that has variables, but it should give a bit more accurate comparison. It always helps when everyone is open to a saw other than their champion winning, if not the whining about this condition and that chain or fuel... always happens.


From everything I'm gathering it sounds like you may have already been to an internet GTG with the OP. I hope it went better than the people I've talked too's experiences.


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 15, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> From everything I'm gathering it sounds like you may have already been to an internet GTG with the OP. I hope it went better than the people I've talked too's experiences.


Yes, the one with wizzer, wizzo, or whatevero yes I lost lol.


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 15, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> Yes, the one with wizzer, wizzo, or whatevero yes I lost lol.


I think with that crowd, we all lose.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 15, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> Just as the stinky pirate is now wrong about everything, your now pissing in the wind yourself, unless you also have a Dyno .


Maybe I do , Maybe I don’t


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 15, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Maybe I do , Maybe I don’t


He doesn't Brett. But I guarantee if you play his game, he'll outlast ya.


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 15, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> He doesn't Brett. But I guarantee if you play his game, he'll outlast ya.


But he has google and will be back with some pictures and maybe even a video in a little, wait for it...
He comes and goes(gets the boot), I just stick around lol.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 15, 2019)

Maybe I was misunderstood about the dyno. Repeatable within itself but not so much from one to another. So in other words, good for you to test a couple of saws on your dyno, maybe not so much if I test one on mine and compare with a saws numbers from yours.


----------



## Little Al (Jan 16, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Maybe I was misunderstood about the dyno. Repeatable within itself but not so much from one to another. So in other words, good for you to test a couple of saws on your dyno, maybe not so much if I test one on mine and compare with a saws numbers from yours.


The Dyno" Charlie" at ADM has a "Gismo" that will give comparisons to equalize conditions for the running of multiples runs of the same motor at different days or a different unit ,it converts the readings to be all at the same condition parameters ,knowing the unit cost I don't think Frank is in a position to shell out that amount of $'s with the apparent size of his outfit


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 16, 2019)

Little Al said:


> The Dyno" Charlie" at ADM has a "Gismo" that will give comparisons to equalize conditions for the running of multiples runs of the same motor at different days or a different unit ,it converts the readings to be all at the same condition parameters ,knowing the unit cost I don't think Frank is in a position to shell out that amount of $'s with the apparent size of his outfit


Yah , this Saw is at 5.8hp which is .2hp less than a stock 461 or a 462c ! I Can’t wait to get me paws on the 462c (whenever the dealer comes thru!)- should be able to get 7.2-7.5 hp out of her and with a 20-25” bar and sharp chain it’ll be goodnight Irene !


----------



## Deleted member 135597 (Jan 16, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , this Saw is at 5.8hp which is .2hp less than a stock 461 or a 462c ! I Can’t wait to get me paws on the 462c (whenever the dealer comes thru!)- should be able to get 7.2-7.5 hp out of her and with a 20-25” bar and sharp chain it’ll be goodnight Irene !



Nice vid, never seen you post that one before, oh wait that’s the third time you posted it in 3 pages......


----------



## cuinrearview (Jan 16, 2019)

And he forgot to mention that the particular dyno he used measured the saw 5.5hp stock...


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Jan 16, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , this Saw is at 5.8hp which is .2hp less than a stock 461 or a 462c ! I Can’t wait to get me paws on the 462c (whenever the dealer comes thru!)- should be able to get 7.2-7.5 hp out of her and with a 20-25” bar and sharp chain it’ll be goodnight Irene !



It won't work, you clearly state you're a 241,261 and 362 specialist.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 16, 2019)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> It won't work, you clearly state you're a 241,261 and 362 specialist.


Yah , soon to add 660 to the header and when I get the 462c and dip it into the cauldron of performance it’ll be in the headline too !


----------



## chipper1 (Jan 16, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , soon to add 660 to the header and when I get the 462c and dip it into the cauldron of performance it’ll be in the headline too !


So once you've had your hands on one saw your a specialist on it .
Now if you got paid to work on it you could say you're a professional, but even that doesn't make someone a specialist or an expert.
I'm sure Mr hotsaws101(aka Jack) is proud to be sponsoring such an experienced specialist thru his franchise .


----------



## TBS (Jan 16, 2019)

I'd bet jack doesn't even know he's sponsoring him.


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Jan 16, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> So once you've had your hands on one saw your a specialist on it .
> Now if you got paid to work on it you could say you're a professional, but even that doesn't make someone a specialist or an expert.
> I'm sure Mr hotsaws101(aka Jack) is proud to be sponsoring such an experienced specialist thru his franchise .


Yah , a good Saw - mechanic should be able to work on ANY Saw right ? Well I can’t very well say I’m a 372xp specialist if I don’t even OWN that particular saw (though I have operated them ) - that wood be dishonest on my part ... look guy I’ve cut / processed More wood than most do in a lifetime ... By using and experimenting on MY equipment I find out what works and what doesn’t ... very simple and straightforward ... as far as Jack aka Hotsaws101, He’s an excellent faller and a very,very good builder . In fact I own a 241c insane-0 and a 461R extreme and am well-pleased with both saws ! Really not interested in your assessment of the situation nor the snarky presumptions you feel you must make for whatever reason ... good day !


----------



## CHOP...CHOP... (Jan 18, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> [Never keep up with that 362c in a million years ! You can run a 32” and make one cut ... I’ll strap on an 18” dent puller and plow threw slick fifty and walk around to the other end of slick do him there as well and STIHL have time to smoke slicks fifty's pole and drink juice out of his rocket jammed azz before you finish lolQUOTE]



Dream on FRANK


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## huskihl (Jan 18, 2019)

CHOP...CHOP... said:


> Dream on FRANK


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## Little Al (Jan 19, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , a good Saw - mechanic should be able to work on ANY Saw right ? Well I can’t very well say I’m a 372xp specialist if I don’t even OWN that particular saw (though I have operated them ) - that wood be dishonest on my part ... look guy I’ve cut / processed More wood than most do in a lifetime ... By using and experimenting on MY equipment I find out what works and what doesn’t ... very simple and straightforward ... as far as Jack aka Hotsaws101, He’s an excellent faller and a very,very good builder . In fact I own a 241c insane-0 and a 461R extreme and am well-pleased with both saws ! Really not interested in your assessment of the situation nor the snarky presumptions you feel you must make for whatever reason ... good day !


Frank I don''t want to "Piss on your chips"but any one involved in " Proper logging" would really not be interested in your exploits I only come on this forum as I've reached the take it a bit easier time 83 YO this year, they would not be interested in your claims as a porter/tuner It's a life long trust thing , we probably **** more wood before tea break Monday morning than you deal with in a week or more but you try to come across as BIG League.You extol the virtues of your saw prep /modding, but to me you haven't proved it's your doing, apart from a few unsubstantiated videos & your say so we have nothing to go on, & before you try to draw me out I have no intention of entering a pissing contest, the company I work for are happy with what & how we do .In the logging leagues you are a very small fish in a jam jar but with a huge ego(multiple)that appears you cannot reign in. I just hope the term ******** baffles brains doesn't come to pass over this, & less knowledgeable members are fooled/taken in.All I ask is please tell the truth when addressing the masses from your soap box


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 19, 2019)

Little Al said:


> Frank I don''t want to "Piss on your chips"but any one involved in " Proper logging" would really not be interested in your exploits I only come on this forum as I've reached the take it a bit easier time 83 YO this year, they would not be interested in your claims as a porter/tuner It's a life long trust thing , we probably **** more wood before tea break Monday morning than you deal with in a week or more but you try to come across as BIG League.You extol the virtues of your saw prep /modding, but to me you haven't proved it's your doing, apart from a few unsubstantiated videos & your say so we have nothing to go on, & before you try to draw me out I have no intention of entering a pissing contest, the company I work for are happy with what & how we do .In the logging leagues you are a very small fish in a jam jar but with a huge ego(multiple)that appears you cannot reign in. I just hope the term ******** baffles brains doesn't come to pass over this, & less knowledgeable members are fooled/taken in.All I ask is please tell the truth when addressing the masses from your soap box


Well Al , if you’re STIHL in the game at 83 years young you’ve done well ! I’m not a pro-logger but do run saws enough to know what works and what don’t at least for the species of timber we have in my neck of the woods ... The reason for hot-rod saws is PRODUCTION ! 2 men using my saws can do the work of 3 running stockers ! This means more in me pockets sir ! There’s 2 ways to make it for the long haul Al ...imho ...1) do very very good work or 2) cheat .... I choose #1 sir and it’s served me well ! If you’ve been around saws all your life then I think you can tell by the SOUND of the saws a runner or not !


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## Little Al (Jan 19, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Well Al , if you’re STIHL in the game at 83 years young you’ve done well ! I’m not a pro-logger but do run saws enough to know what works and what don’t at least for the species of timber we have in my neck of the woods ... The reason for hot-rod saws is PRODUCTION ! 2 men using my saws can do the work of 3 running stockers ! This means more in me pockets sir ! There’s 2 ways to make it for the long haul Al ...imho ...1) do very very good work or 2) cheat .... I choose #1 sir and it’s served me well ! If you’ve been around saws all your life then I think you can tell by the SOUND of the saws a runner or not !


I am up with the sound performance wise of good /bad or indifferent saws ,my doubt is DO YOU actually do the tuning work or do you get a quality tuner to do work on your saw then claim you are the modder? how many of your modded saws are earning cash in other peoples hands ? .I know quite a few guys that have altered saws for themselves for their own use but just get on with cutting for their own satisfaction & not requiring to make claims that their saws are the be all to end all performance wise ,if your saws were being used by third parties & they performed as you claim ,guys requiring performance would be beating you door down. How long is your waiting /turn around time ? I would guess if your product is a good as you say you would be doing the saw work full time rather than logging ,I can tell you it"s a damn sight easier on the body.


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## cuinrearview (Jan 19, 2019)

Little Al said:


> I am up with the sound performance wise of good /bad or indifferent saws ,my doubt is DO YOU actually do the tuning work or do you get a quality tuner to do work on your saw then claim you are the modder? how many of your modded saws are earning cash in other peoples hands ? .I know quite a few guys that have altered saws for themselves for their own use but just get on with cutting for their own satisfaction & not requiring to make claims that their saws are the be all to end all performance wise ,if your saws were being used by third parties & they performed as you claim ,guys requiring performance would be beating you door down. How long is your waiting /turn around time ? I would guess if your product is a good as you say you would be doing the saw work full time rather than logging ,I can tell you it"s a damn sight easier on the body.


Ehhhhhh..... Fabz ain't logging either


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 19, 2019)

Little Al said:


> I am up with the sound performance wise of good /bad or indifferent saws ,my doubt is DO YOU actually do the tuning work or do you get a quality tuner to do work on your saw then claim you are the modder? how many of your modded saws are earning cash in other peoples hands ? .I know quite a few guys that have altered saws for themselves for their own use but just get on with cutting for their own satisfaction & not requiring to make claims that their saws are the be all to end all performance wise ,if your saws were being used by third parties & they performed as you claim ,guys requiring performance would be beating you door down. How long is your waiting /turn around time ? I would guess if your product is a good as you say you would be doing the saw work full time rather than logging ,I can tell you it"s a damn sight easier on the body.


I’m not making any claims that my builds are the “be all end all” of performance at all ... I’m just working thru the STIHL Pro lineup one saw at a time ; running stock , then muffler modded , then intake work (and machining adapters to allow more flow when applicable) and finally flow-enhancements to the jug and slug ; and recording each step in the same wood with same chain ... if a particular mod does not pan out I go back until it does ... again one step at a time ... I think the final product works well ! Considerably quicker cutting vs stock and the fuel consumption is excellent ! Have run saws by many known builders and they ran well but became frustrated with being outta gas and STIHL having 1/2 tank of oil left ! I’m not running my saws 6 hrs a day / 6 days a week like some here but when called upon my saws produce ... like I said before ... I and a helper (2 men) running these flow-enhanced saws can equal or in some cases outperform 3 men running stock saws - Owning 2-hot woods saw is cheaper than owning 3 stockers and only have to split the take between 2 instead of 3 men ! Do ya get my logic sir ? I don’t need to “port saws” for a living and quite frankly can make considerably MORE $ RUNNING them than I could “enhancing” them ! That being said I’m considering doing a build thread with the new 462c - I’ve seen what gains others are making and believe I can exceed them while delivering superior run-time per tank .. we shall see the finished product soon enough my friend and will let the members of the forum be the judge ! Not a few “hecklers” with an axe to grind !!!


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## Little Al (Jan 19, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I’m not making any claims that my builds are the “be all end all” of performance at all ... I’m just working thru the STIHL Pro lineup one saw at a time ; running stock , then muffler modded , then intake work (and machining adapters to allow more flow when applicable) and finally flow-enhancements to the jug and slug ; and recording each step in the same wood with same chain ... if a particular mod does not pan out I go back until it does ... again one step at a time ... I think the final product works well ! Considerably quicker cutting vs stock and the fuel consumption is excellent ! Have run saws by many known builders and they ran well but became frustrated with being outta gas and STIHL having 1/2 tank of oil left ! I’m not running my saws 6 hrs a day / 6 days a week like some here but when called upon my saws produce ... like I said before ... I and a helper (2 men) running these flow-enhanced saws can equal or in some cases outperform 3 men running stock saws - Owning 2-hot woods saw is cheaper than owning 3 stockers and only have to split the take between 2 instead of 3 men ! Do ya get my logic sir ? I don’t need to “port saws” for a living and quite frankly can make considerably MORE $ RUNNING them than I could “enhancing” them ! That being said I’m considering doing a build thread with the new 462c - I’ve seen what gains others are making and believe I can exceed them while delivering superior run-time per tank .. we shall see the finished product soon enough my friend and will let the members of the forum be the judge ! Not a few “hecklers” with an axe to grind !!!


One more post & I'm done If you can buck the trend of 2 smoke motor Modders since the year dot & produce a more powerful unit that is more economical on fuel with reliability, you my friend should patent it & wait for Stihl/Husky to beat your door down & give you big piles of cash for your knowledge ,or on the other hand they might find your body in a dumpster with no sign of the cash as in some of the good inventions that have ended up much the same over the years I would't hold my breath though


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 19, 2019)

Little Al said:


> One more post & I'm done If you can buck the trend of 2 smoke motor Modders since the year dot & produce a more powerful unit that is more economical on fuel with reliability, you my friend should patent it & wait for Stihl/Husky to beat your door down & give you big piles of cash for your knowledge ,or on the other hand they might find your body in a dumpster with no sign of the cash as in some of the good inventions that have ended up much the same over the years I would't hold my breath though


Yah , you cannot “patent” port/work or modifications my friend ... you CAN however make the stock saw cut/perform considerably better than a stocker ! Not saying I’m getting more power using less fuel whatsoever ... just saying some “builders” saws use considerably MORE fuel to get the SAME or LESS performance and the operator is exposed to excessive harmful fumes due to “lazy” or incompetent modding / port work !!! OUT !!!!!!!!


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## Honyuk96 (Jan 19, 2019)

Haha just got back around to this smelly cheese thread. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but did an 83 YO logger just put Frank and all his alter egos in their place ? Just like the old saying goes, if it smells like poop, it probably is. you are pathetic Frank.


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## cuinrearview (Jan 19, 2019)

Honyuk96 said:


> Haha just got back around to this smelly cheese thread. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but did an 83 YO logger just put Frank and all his alter egos in their place ? Just like the old saying goes, if it smells like poop, it probably is. you are pathetic Frank.


All I took from it is that Frank said he was gonna do a lot build thread...


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## chipper1 (Jan 19, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> All I took from it is that Frank said he was gonna do a lot build thread...


So we got a piped 660 and a build thread on a 462 in the works, and he's gonna get some numbers off his Dyno and let us be the judges .


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## Frank Rizzo (Jan 19, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> So we hot a piped 660 and a building thread on a 462 in the works, and he's gonna get some numbers off his Dyno and let us be the judges .


Yah , why ya gotta be like that bub ?


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## cuinrearview (Jan 19, 2019)

chipper1 said:


> So we hot a piped 660 and a building thread on a 462 in the works, and he's gonna get some numbers off his Dyno and let us be the judges .


I started a poll about whether Frank would build a saw here or not.


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## Honyuk96 (Jan 19, 2019)

Frank builds bandwidth. He does it well.


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## cuinrearview (Jan 19, 2019)

The poll was removed. Sorry guys.


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## chipper1 (Jan 19, 2019)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yah , why ya gotta be like that bub ?


I don't.
But since you've continued to ask everyone else for proof of everthing they have ever done or said in their life I feel the same should be expected of you, it's the standard you've set for everyone so it's only fair you live up to it as well. I've spoken many kind words to you, I've done the best I can help direct you on a path that would help you here and on all the other forums, but you've continued to stomp out all that advice. If you'd stop acing as if no-one else can do what you have done or is doing(which is very insulting to most people) and recognize that we are all trying to learn and help one another here then the way you are treated will change. As I've said before there are things you've said I agree with, but the condescending attitude towards everyone in general trumps anything positive you have said or have done.
To summarize; this is a community, we help one another, everyone here has something to learn and everyone here has something to offer(you included).
If you are here only to boast and tell others they know nothing move along, if you want to be part of the community then get with the program, it's your choice and others will respond accordingly .


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## CHOP...CHOP... (Jan 19, 2019)

Frank learns best this way


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## CHOP...CHOP... (Jan 19, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> The poll was removed. Sorry guys.


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## pioneerguy600 (Jan 19, 2019)

What, I just voted a couple minits ago!


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