# I would like to learn more about producing better grade pieces out of a log using CSM



## Coalsmoke (May 12, 2009)

Hi guys. I have used an alaskan style CSM to mill roughly 3,000bd ft worth of boards, beams, posts, etc, mostly softwoods and the native westcoast hardwoods we have here. I'm no expert, but have used it enough to get a good taste for it. I now plan to build myself a mill carriage assembly something like the procut design. I figured if I'm going to get more serious about this, it would be a good idea to learn some general cutting knowledge of how to get the best quality wood for structures out of a log. 

Can anyone recommend a website or a starter book that lays this out in an easy to follow manner? My goal is to be cutting good enough grade pieces to use in construction of a house. The barn went well, but is more forgiving. No drywall in the barn  

Thanks


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## Mad Professor (May 12, 2009)

Contact a local portable miller. Tell him you want to learn and will help stack lumber to learn how to cut for grade.

P.S. I learned by working in a commercial circle mill while going to college.


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## LAndrews (May 13, 2009)

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn98.pdf

Dono if this will help much - but it seems sorta obvious and still I just learned a bit more new jargon. 

Hopefully it won't take me that long to produce 1Kbf - let alone 3. Nice.


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## BlueRider (May 13, 2009)

One of the charicteristics of lumber that is of great importance to me as a furniture maker is grain runout. Just by the nature of how a tree grows it is inescapable that there will be some grain runout. I see a lot of wood come off mills where the first cut was made parallel to the top of the log. this will make the first board have no grain runout and from then on all the boards will have increasing amounts of grain runn out with the bottom board having 2x what it should. when sawing for grade the first cut should be made parallel to the center pith of the log this will produce boards on both sides of the log with even amounts of runout and will minimize movement during drying. this is also true when milling a beam and you are boxing the heart. In my mind this one issue is what seperates the pros from the amatures. It is easy to look at a cant and see which face has the fewest knots and take a board off that face, reading runout is more subtle.


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## Coalsmoke (May 13, 2009)

Thanks guys for the help. I don't know of a good sawyer in the area to learn off of, otherwise that would be a great way to go. Thanks for the log publication, that was worth reading.

Bluerider, that is the type of thing I am trying to pick up. Almost everything I cut is softwoods, but its all relevant as we have some ok quality hardwoods here too.


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## dallasm1 (May 13, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> One of the charicteristics of lumber that is of great importance to me as a furniture maker is grain runout. Just by the nature of how a tree grows it is inescapable that there will be some grain runout. I see a lot of wood come off mills where the first cut was made parallel to the top of the log. this will make the first board have no grain runout and from then on all the boards will have increasing amounts of grain runn out with the bottom board having 2x what it should. when sawing for grade the first cut should be made parallel to the center pith of the log this will produce boards on both sides of the log with even amounts of runout and will minimize movement during drying. this is also true when milling a beam and you are boxing the heart. In my mind this one issue is what seperates the pros from the amatures. It is easy to look at a cant and see which face has the fewest knots and take a board off that face, reading runout is more subtle.


How would this apply to a tapered log? I normally cut parallel to the pith on a somewhat cylindrical log, but when there is a taper what would you suggest? It seems to me that neither parallel to the top nor parallel to the pith would suffice in this case. Do you have any ideas to minimize the grain runout in this case?


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## Brmorgan (May 14, 2009)

About a month ago, I scanned all my lumber grading training materials and put them into a PDF which I posted *HERE*. 

I know it doesn't directly have information about how to best saw a log for grade, but it does have a lot of information about how to grade whatever pieces you do saw. Regarding building a house with wood you mill yourself - a building inspector MAY want to see a grade stamp on the lumber in order to sign off on the construction. They might be lenient if the lumber is obviously of excellent grade though. Of course this might be moot depending where you live.

You might also find this informative:
http://www.allwoodwork.com/article/woodwork/plainorquartersawn.htm

Personally, if I'm cutting 1" boards for woodworking projects, I try to quarter-saw as much as I can so I can get mostly vertical-grain pieces, which tend to warp less. However, this is actually the worst way to cut boards for structural use. This is because it creates "spike" knots, where the knot goes through the board from edge to edge instead of a "round" knot, which goes through on the wide face of the board. You can see how much more good wood the spike knot displaces (thus decreasing the board's strength), even though the actual diameter of the knot is similar to the round knot.

I've held a grading ticket here in BC for 7 years and have been a graderman for the last 5, so I'm fairly familiar with the lumber grades you'll be working around to build a house. Any questions PM me.


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## Coalsmoke (May 14, 2009)

Wow Brad, thank you for this info. I'll get reading and will probably drop you an email in a while. I see you are in BC as well. 

Thanks again.


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## BlueRider (May 14, 2009)

dallasm1 said:


> How would this apply to a tapered log? I normally cut parallel to the pith on a somewhat cylindrical log, but when there is a taper what would you suggest? It seems to me that neither parallel to the top nor parallel to the pith would suffice in this case. Do you have any ideas to minimize the grain runout in this case?



On a tapered log it is even more important to make the first cut parallel to the pith. this will produce a sharply tapered cap cut and often the first board will have more sap wood on one end, this first board is very low quality but cutting this way will increase the quality of the remaining boards. On logs with a pronounced swell near the root I will often slice this portion off freehand to make placing the guide rails parallel to the pith easier.

the grain runout will be approximately the same on each side of the pith. the only way to minimize it is to cut parallel to it so that the boards on each side of the pith have the coresponding opposide amounts of runout. the boards at the center and on each side of the pith will have little to no runout. 

Grain runout is just one of the quallities of lumber but for fine furniture it is a big one.


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## Brmorgan (May 14, 2009)

It's sometimes nice to have some grain runout on flatsawn lumber - you can get some beautiful cathedral grain patterns that way.


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## DFoshee (May 14, 2009)

Get the book "Harvesting Urban Timber" not sure who the author is but amazon has it. 
It was very helpful has all sorts of stuff about havesting trees and running a sawmill.


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## Coalsmoke (May 15, 2009)

DFoshee said:


> Get the book "Harvesting Urban Timber" not sure who the author is but amazon has it.
> It was very helpful has all sorts of stuff about havesting trees and running a sawmill.



Thanks, I'll look it up.


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