# Question about replacing engine on splitter



## cnice_37 (May 3, 2010)

So my buddy was nice enough to let me borrow his 21 ton "white outdoor" splitter. Thing worked great all week, I'll post some pics later of before and after of the wood pile.

Well being my in my nature of recent luck with anything with an engine, the last day I went to tow her back to my friend's and I fire her up and she stalled out. Oh no - then she refused to start and we found the flywheel was seized.

Awesome, gotta love the B&S engines, this would be the second one I've seized in as many years. It looks like its got a 190cc 5.5hp with a vertical shaft.

I'm looking at the Harbor Freight as a replacement, same HP, vertical shaft.

The question is - on the shaft, how critical is the length? I figure diameter must be exact. What am I in for in terms of potential mods needed? Longer better (ask the wife?!)

Thanks,
Craig


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## hanniedog (May 3, 2010)

I got a replacement engine for my splitter from Small Engine Warehouse out of Indiana. Shaft needs tobe same diameter and same lenght if possible. Makes hooking up pump connector much easier without having to use shims. They have a large selection to choose from and decent prices to boot.


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## leon (May 3, 2010)

*log splitter*

BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING PLEASE LISTEN!!!


On the B+S engines cooling shroud either on top-the side where the plug is 

or on the side of the cooling shroud which is exposed, the engines serial 

number, type, and group number is located. you probably need a little alcohol 

to clean the shroud to expose the numbers unless there is a sticker covering 

it and then simply use the alcohol to get the sticker off to access the 

numbers. 



That gives you all the numbers you need to order the EXACT engine model 

from Briggs and Stratton. 


The reason any vertical crankshaft engine fails is simply one of 
lubrication-

Most if not all vertcal shaft gas engines fail due to bad oil pumps IF they are 

equipped with oil pumps or are designed with a splash lubrication system that 

runs low on oil-I am not saying you caused it but quite often a bearing fails 

as well on the crank. this is why some engines are ment to be stationary 

while operating as well. 


Thats the only way to order the exact unit for this log splitter and the only 

way you will get one quickly, avoid having to buy a new coupler half and to 

avoid hacking off a longer length crank stub as my brother did instead of 

listeneing......


This also eliminates problems with matching coupler halves which is a problem 

buying an engine from a retailer who stocks engines-who cannot guarantee 

engine shaft specs-been there done that with northern tool with an old log 

splitter. 


And as they maintain a huge inventory at all times it does not take long for 

you to have an engine on your door step-and why I was able to order and 

recieve a replacement engine shroud for a 30 year old 16 horse power I/c 16 

horse power engine last year.



I want you to succeed and not to fail.


leon:chainsawguy:


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## cnice_37 (May 3, 2010)

HD - nice boxer and thanks for the fast reply.

Leon thanks for the advice and tips.

After considering our options, I am leaning towards Leon's advice, to get a direct replacement. While its still a Briggs POS, its easy enough and the dead engine can serve as parts backup. 

Unless I find a big $ difference and something with same shaft, it looks like an easy decision.

Thanks again,
Craig


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## oneoldbanjo (May 3, 2010)

cnice_37 said:


> So my buddy was nice enough to let me borrow his 21 ton "white outdoor" splitter.
> I'm looking at the Harbor Freight as a replacement, same HP, vertical shaft.
> Craig



Buddies don't blow up friends Briggs engines and replace them with generic Chinese engines!!!!!


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## bullseye13 (May 3, 2010)

Heres what you do.



Take off top shroud, get breaker bar with socket for the flywheel nut. Get on that sucker and rock it back and forth with some oil in cylinder. Get it broke loose, fill with oil and split wood.


I was given a siezed pressure washer with one of those briggs engines, had a blown head gasket causing it to burn oil. Broke her loose with a breaker bar and its been running great for 3 years now.

If it gives you an extra month or five years of use, you might as well go for it. You really have nothing to lose.


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## Curlycherry1 (May 3, 2010)

I too vote for getting the exact replacement. If I were to loan someone a splitter with a B&S engine and it came back with a Harbor Freight motor on it that would be the last piece of equipment I would ever loan them, period. HF is junk.

Where I come from if you break something you replace it with exactly the same thing or something that is positively, absolutely BETTER than what you broke. But in the eyes of some people the definition of better is very subjective, so the default safe setting is to get the exact replacement. That way they cannot argue that you screwed them by getting something cheaper.


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## cnice_37 (May 3, 2010)

Haha - called out on the Chinese engine. I actually searched here and didn't come across any negative reviews. From my experience with B&S, it can't get much worse. They have 2yr warranty as well at HF.

I offered to buy him a brand new splitter. He's the type that wants to split the cost for the repair. I told him that's not happening, so pick an engine.

Breaker bar & oil the hell out of it... sounds like its worth a shot.

I'll have to update once we get her running again.


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## manonaputer (May 3, 2010)

if it was mine, id go with the trying to break it free route first, after taking it apary and making sure the pesky little critters didn't put something in there to keep it from moving...you would not believe the things i find in my small engines from them ( rocks-acorns etc..) i also agree this if your gotta replace it, try looking at smallenginewarehouse.com thats where i got my engine....i got a nice little 7 hp that they offered free shipping..i can't tell you how nice it runs now having all brand new linkage after messing with old rusty stuff on my old engine...also, it's not an exact replacement, but i'd also look through craigs list...sometimes you can get lucky on there...i found a nice 13hp honda for $225 a while ago...


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## oneoldbanjo (May 3, 2010)

I am not sure about the breaker bar routine - I guess it is worth a try if you can get the engine to turn with just a little bit of pressure and the engine turns over easily after it is unstuck.

I have had good luck repairing stuck engines by taking them apart. Usually the cylinder is not hurt - the aluminum rod seems to sieze first. Take the engine apart and if the rod is stuck unbolt it and take some fine emery cloth and clean any stuck aluminum off the rod journal. Then buy a new rod and put it in the engine.

I just don't see how the breaker bar routine will get the aluminum off the crank if it has gotten hot enough to stick the aluminum onto the steel crank.


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## BuddhaKat (May 3, 2010)

The odds are you're not going to be able to get the exact engine. They stop making them after a while. However, it's really easy to replace an engine or even upgrade. Everything goes by "Class" and all engine manufacturers adhere to these class standards. Basically, you have three things to consider; Mounting the engine to the splitter, mounting the pump to the engine, and clearance.

Pretty much all of the 5-7 HP horizontal shaft engines have the same mount, so no worries there. There are lots of different output shaft options, but they're pretty standard too. Just measure it with a ruler and get the one that's closest to the choices the supplier offers. Odds are, you'll get the exact match there. The differences are usually pretty significant. Other than that, make sure the gas tank doesn't bump into anything and you should be good to go.

I just replaced a Tecumseh 6.5 HP with a B&S Intek 7 HO and it bolted right up without a problem. SmallEngineWarehouse.com is a good source. I bought mine from a place called BrandNewEngines.com. There are other places on the net that have great deals.


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## BuddhaKat (May 3, 2010)

oneoldbanjo said:


> I am not sure about the breaker bar routine - I guess it is worth a try if you can get the engine to turn with just a little bit of pressure and the engine turns over easily after it is unstuck.
> 
> I have had good luck repairing stuck engines by taking them apart. Usually the cylinder is not hurt - the aluminum rod seems to sieze first. Take the engine apart and if the rod is stuck unbolt it and take some fine emery cloth and clean any stuck aluminum off the rod journal. Then buy a new rod and put it in the engine.
> 
> I just don't see how the breaker bar routine will get the aluminum off the crank if it has gotten hot enough to stick the aluminum onto the steel crank.


I'm not so sure about just breaking it lose and firing it up. You need to find out what made it seize. Even if you break it lose, it doesn't mean there wasn't damage and it won't happen again.


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## ray benson (May 3, 2010)

Thought life of the small engines should be many hundred of hours.


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## BuddhaKat (May 3, 2010)

ray benson said:


> Thought life of the small engines should be many hundred of hours.


The life of a small engine is about three minutes. Longer if you add oil.


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## Haywire Haywood (May 3, 2010)

Replacing or repairing stuff that is borrowed depends on exactly what happens. If I borrowed a ratted out splitter on it's last leg, I probably wouldn't be putting a new engine on it. Unless I did something to cause it, it would have blown up the next time the owner started it anyway.

Now if I did something to cause it, then the responsibility falls on me. I lent a buddy my mower last year. He stepped on the wrong pedal and ran it into a tree. He paid for the repair. If it had just died on him during normal operation, I wouldn't expect him to front a new engine. It would have died on me just the same.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't care for what I borrow. I borrowed a tiller from a buddy last year. I changed the oil and replaced a throttle cable for him. 

Ian


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## cnice_37 (May 3, 2010)

The kicker is that I was DONE splitting! I fired it up to make sure she was still running before making the journey across towns - that's when it seized.

Bottom line is renting a splitter for a few days would end up costing more than replacing the engine.

I'm having a hell of a time finding the exact engine, so I'm going for 'as close as possible' and hoping minimal mods make it work.

Much obliged for all the help.


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## BuddhaKat (May 4, 2010)

Pretty sure that as long as you don't make any big jumps in HP, the engine will bolt up just fine. The only thing to be really concerned about is the shaft. Make sure the length and diameter and keyway are the same and you shouldn't have any problems.


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## jbighump (May 4, 2010)

this is why i dont like to borrow stuff. i used a friend of my dads splitter last year to split a couple truckloads, i offered to pay him cause the rental place didnt have any that day and he refused. cool so i took it home and checked the fluids oil wasnt even on dipstick so i filled that up, checked the hydro fluid and it was about a quart low so i topped it off.

i done all the splitting i needed prolly 3hrs worth and i topped it off with fuel(it was empty when i got it) pressure washed it cause it was filthy from him not me and returned it. about a week later the guy called my dad and said he felt like i owed him some money. the nerve, i basically did all the maintenance for him and even fueled it up and cleaned it. i should have charged him. 

when my dad seen him a couple weeks ago he told him i bought a new splitter, the guy looked at him and said why did he buy one he could use mine any time he wants too no thanks as for the engine google brandnewengines they have a wide selection and good prices good luck


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## corrupt (May 4, 2010)

If u just replace the engine with no hassels and at your own cost, like u are doing, Im sure he will have no problem lending it to you any time u need it. A few $$ on a new engine is alot cheaper than buying a splitter of your own.


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## bass_on_tap (May 4, 2010)

cnice_37 said:


> The kicker is that I was DONE splitting! I fired it up to make sure she was still running before making the journey across towns - that's when it seized.
> 
> Bottom line is renting a splitter for a few days would end up costing more than replacing the engine.
> 
> ...



Look at it this way. If you had not started it ( and seized the engine) before returning it, the owner would have had it seize on him the first time he ran it. What do you think he would have thought of you as a friend? I would be po'ed if I lent my splitter and it seized the first time I used it upon return. Fix it correctly, tell the owner what happened and you keep a friend for life.


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## cnice_37 (May 4, 2010)

bass_on_tap said:


> Look at it this way. If you had not started it ( and seized the engine) before returning it, the owner would have had it seize on him the first time he ran it. What do you think he would have thought of you as a friend? I would be po'ed if I lent my splitter and it seized the first time I used it upon return. Fix it correctly, tell the owner what happened and you keep a friend for life.



Exactly why I checked it before we left. Done and done. While I plan on buying a splitter next year, it just wasn't in the budget this year. New saw replaced the one that died, flooding damage cost us about a grand, threw the in-laws a fancy anniversary part, bought the wife an HD camcorder so we can video our daughter, and need to replace my car this month. And so it goes. Stimulating the economy all by ourselves.


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## RAMROD48 (May 4, 2010)

I couldnt log in yestarday when I read this...

Not really sure where your negative feelings for Briggs came from...I mean sure its no Honda....but they are far from trash...or as you put it "POS"...

I am a Briggs dealer and if you get me the numbers I will run them for you and find out of the short block is avaialble or if they have discontinued the replacement...


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## GPETER (May 4, 2010)

X3 on try to loosen it up. My neighbor fixed his splitters B&S motor this way after it was loaned out... If the piston is seized; a little oil down the plug hole and a few days of soaking can work wonders.

But I am sure if you wan to do it right and have no hard feelings then a new motor it is. 

But it is worth a shot, and hey if it runs again; tell the friend when it kicks the bucket you will replace it...


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## cnice_37 (May 11, 2010)

**An update**

So tonight was the first chance we both got to revisit dead splitter.

I pull in with some tools, first thing my buddy says - "after you asked about the oil I checked - and there's NONE!"

So we oil her up, turn the flywheel with one of those offset box wrenches, and she's loosening up. LIFE! Compression is there; put the plug back in, and she's splitting wood again.

We rethreaded the oil release screw (or whatever its called) before all that and snugged her up. No visible leaks.

He had changed the oil right before sending her over to my house - so maybe it was leaking the whole time and I only checked it on the first day I was using it.

Not sure what gives - but thanks to all who replied.


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## RAMROD48 (May 11, 2010)

Awesome, glad to hear all is well...


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## Steveguy (May 12, 2010)

Those darn junk Briggs motors..... You run em out of oil and they just don't hold up....Wait, they do hold up if you free em up and put oil back in! Good luck with that, hope it keeps working OK.


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