# If you could buy any saw? For CSM of course.



## brookpederson (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm gonna pull the trigger and a purchase new chainsaw 70cc+ and prolly a panther mill. I swear this has nothing to do with any kind of CAD i might be experiencing. I actually need something to slab bigger logs. I currently have a timberking 1220 BSM, and have had to turn down some very nice 28"+ logs over the years. Especially over the last year we have had to pass on a few massive B Walnut logs that really chap my hide:taped: I also make rustic furniture and wooden signs and it would be nice to not have to join multiple pieces together to make something big. 

I currently have a 660 but want to save it for tree removals and felling. My dad has a husquvarna 372. I like that saw too, especially the 10# weight dif between it and the 660. Should i go with another 70cc saw or go bigger? The biggest log i will be tackling out here on the prairies of western MN is about 40'' to 45''. 
Thanks in advance, brook


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## TPA (Feb 2, 2013)

40" logs means much more than 70cc, possibly even bigger than the 660. Since the 880 is very expensive, you might want to look into a used 100+cc saw.

Edit to add the following:

Daninvan, who mills on the beach has 3120's and a 395. You might ask him what he is willing to put the 395 through. He does mill some pretty big stuff.


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## qbilder (Feb 2, 2013)

I just bought an 084 for the same exact purpose. I'm going to equip it with a 60" bar & ripping chain, and likely a panther mill. At 122cc's it should be plenty to mill anything within that 5', but I would have bought an 090 if one were available at a reasonable price. I'm more concerned about getting a good saw than I am about getting a great deal, but I don't want to pay a tremendous amount for something I may not use much, either. 

I paid $800 for mine, equipped with a 36" bar & chain, a 30" bar with carbide chain, extra air filters & plugs, and a pack of Nicholson files. The saw could be new, incredibly good shape. There were several 084's for sale in the $600-$650 range but none this nice, nor this nicely equipped. I picked it up last night & then first thing this morning I dropped it at the shop so the guys can go through it, inspect it, tune it for high altitude, sharpen the carbide chain, & make sure it's ready for work. Will likely be $150 tab, then I have to buy the new big bar, chain, & mill, plus shipping. I figure by the time it's ready to mill with, I will be $1500+ deep into it. That's about how much I was considering paying for a brand new 880 saw head, so i'm ahead quite a bit. Hopefully this thing comes in as handy as I think it will. 

My recommendation (which is worthless considering my lack of experience) would be to look for a big used saw. I had no problem finding the 120cc+ saws for between $500-$1000. The saw is only the initial cost. Lots of things to get once you have the power head, before you can mill anything.


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## brookpederson (Feb 2, 2013)

qbilder said:


> I just bought an 084 for the same exact purpose. I'm going to equip it with a 60" bar & ripping chain, and likely a panther mill. At 122cc's it should be plenty to mill anything within that 5', but I would have bought an 090 if one were available at a reasonable price. I'm more concerned about getting a good saw than I am about getting a great deal, but I don't want to pay a tremendous amount for something I may not use much, either.
> 
> I paid $800 for mine, equipped with a 36" bar & chain, a 30" bar with carbide chain, extra air filters & plugs, and a pack of Nicholson files. The saw could be new, incredibly good shape. There were several 084's for sale in the $600-$650 range but none this nice, nor this nicely equipped. I picked it up last night & then first thing this morning I dropped it at the shop so the guys can go through it, inspect it, tune it for high altitude, sharpen the carbide chain, & make sure it's ready for work. Will likely be $150 tab, then I have to buy the new big bar, chain, & mill, plus shipping. I figure by the time it's ready to mill with, I will be $1500+ deep into it. That's about how much I was considering paying for a brand new 880 saw head, so i'm ahead quite a bit. Hopefully this thing comes in as handy as I think it will.
> 
> My recommendation (which is worthless considering my lack of experience) would be to look for a big used saw. I had no problem finding the 120cc+ saws for between $500-$1000. The saw is only the initial cost. Lots of things to get once you have the power head, before you can mill anything.



Thats an awesome deal, and i would love to find a used saw. I have been scrounging through craigslist and the local classifieds for a year or two now. I haven't found anything of any size within 3 hrs. Ebay is full of stuff but even though I have bought a popup camper off of there, i don't feel safe buying a power head w/out checking it out in person lol.


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## BobL (Feb 2, 2013)

It depends how many of the bigger ie >36" diam logs you are going to be cutting up.

The reason I pick 36" is because in most cases than means a >42" bar and that's really >100cc territory in my book.
45" log means a >51" bar and that really is 100+ cc territory

If you have only 10-20% of your trees in those size then you can get away with a 90 cc saw because there are not all that many big cuts involved even on a big log.
However, as soon as a reasonable proportion (1 in 5) of your logs go over 36" then why muck around.


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## qbilder (Feb 3, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> Thats an awesome deal, and i would love to find a used saw. I have been scrounging through craigslist and the local classifieds for a year or two now. I haven't found anything of any size within 3 hrs. Ebay is full of stuff but even though I have bought a popup camper off of there, i don't feel safe buying a power head w/out checking it out in person lol.




I can understand that. That's one of the reasons I bought the one I bought.


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## mad murdock (Feb 3, 2013)

I agree with BobL, get at least 90cc, more is better IMO. I will say this tho, you can get away with a 42" bar running .050 picco chain on a 660 or equivalent, but that is abt the limit for saw size and bar length with low pro chain. The smaller kerf lets you get away with a little less hp,'without sacrificing feed rate so much. But that means you could effectively mill out to about 38" for the widest cut with that setup. If you have to go bigger, then you have to step up to 3/8 or .404 chain. There are a lot of good used saws. I don't know where you are located, one seller that I would trust is Saw King-Randy Dugan of Myrtle Creek Saw Shop, in Oregon. He is a straight shooter, he has tons of "shop talk" vids on you tube of his saws.


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## brookpederson (Feb 3, 2013)

Oh darn, you guys are telling me to get a bigger saw. The last thing i wanted to get was a bigger saw.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## john taliaferro (Feb 3, 2013)

I got my 88 for 600.$ ugly plastic but she was sweet . We put a lot of time on it and it seamed to be getting week so i sent it to Stumpy and got it freshened and ported . She got an attitude i call her B----. Quit whining and go buy a nother saw tell her you have to .


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## excess650 (Feb 3, 2013)

Bob's given good advice. Go big or don't bother! I have a 066 with Bailey's BB kit, no bark dogs, and 36" bar dedicated to my Alaskan mill. I have a 660 that I use as a backup/trim saw around the mill or for bucking/felling. My 3120 hasn't gotten much use in that it was .404 and only had 30" of bar, but that has since been remedied with a 42" 3/8 bar & ripping chain.

A 40" log will yield a 28" cant, and 30" makes the 066BB grunt. If you want to cut wider slabs, go bigger if its hardwood!

I was disappointed with my 272xp and 28" bar on the mill.


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## rtrsam (Feb 3, 2013)

Most of the CSM work I've ever done has been with two powerheads. If you've already got a 372 you can use, get another one and run one on each end of the bar. I've milled the longest length bar you can get from Bailey's (54"?) with a Stihl 044 at each end. That way you don't have a powerhead dedicated to CSM only.

This assumes you always have two people to operate with.


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## PhilB (Feb 3, 2013)

Bailey's Wooland Pro double ended bars:
44", 50" , 56" , 66" , 84" and 96".


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## gemniii (Feb 13, 2013)

If I could ...

Wait a minute - I did
http://www.arboristsite.com/milling-saw-mills/207812.htm








088 with, as pictured, 2 cases, 36" bar. several chains, tools.
A lightly used Alaskan Mark III 36" and a bar guard.

$450

Takes 4 pulls to start.


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## bigmoose (Feb 13, 2013)

I have a Timberking 1220 as well, why can you not do more the 28" diameter?


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## excess650 (Feb 13, 2013)

Excellent score on that 088. I paid more than that for my 3120 in '09 and it only came with a 30" .404 bar. I would like to have anther 3120! They may seem large and heavy for felling and bucking, but the extra grunt is sure appreciated on the mill.:msp_thumbup:


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## brookpederson (Feb 13, 2013)

bigmoose said:


> I have a Timberking 1220 as well, why can you not do more the 28" diameter?



I'm talking about bigger than 28", the 1220 can only cut up too 28". I want to slab some 40" stuff with ease. 
I missed out on a 880 a week or two ago. A buddy told me he saw an add in the local advisor for one, to late. Damn


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## BobL (Feb 13, 2013)

bigmoose said:


> I have a Timberking 1220 as well, why can you not do more the 28" diameter?



I guess you can but you have to roll the log a fair bit?


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## sachsmo (Feb 14, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> I'm gonna pull the trigger and a purchase new chainsaw 70cc+ and prolly a panther mill. I swear this has nothing to do with any kind of CAD i might be experiencing. I actually need something to slab bigger logs. I currently have a timberking 1220 BSM, and have had to turn down some very nice 28"+ logs over the years. Especially over the last year we have had to pass on a few massive B Walnut logs that really chap my hide:taped: I also make rustic furniture and wooden signs and it would be nice to not have to join multiple pieces together to make something big.
> 
> I currently have a 660 but want to save it for tree removals and felling. My dad has a husquvarna 372. I like that saw too, especially the 10# weight dif between it and the 660. Should i go with another 70cc saw or go bigger? The biggest log i will be tackling out here on the prairies of western MN is about 40'' to 45''.
> Thanks in advance, brook



If I could buy any saw?

166 Sachs Dolmar.

I have several 153s, I would really like to see what that extra 6mm of stroke would pull.

I have gone 28" wide White Oak with 100ccs. Milling 40 inchers will humble the biggest baddest saws ever made.


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## sachsmo (Feb 14, 2013)

good link for some big saws;

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/36415-24.htm


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## bigmoose (Feb 14, 2013)

I will check my manual but I have had 30 inch logs on mime. I think it will handle a 34, but like I said I will have to check my manual.


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## brookpederson (Feb 14, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> If I could buy any saw?
> 
> 166 Sachs Dolmar.
> 
> ...



Thats a good question then. What is the biggest a log CSM can do regularly? And what is the biggest slab you guys have peeled off? I know i've seen some 60" or greater slabs before. If you had trouble w/ 28'' oak, what are they running?


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## BobL (Feb 15, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> Thats a good question then. What is the biggest a log CSM can do regularly? And what is the biggest slab you guys have peeled off? I know i've seen some 60" or greater slabs before. If you had trouble w/ 28'' oak, what are they running?



I've cut 52" Jarrah with my 60" bar and it was not a big deal. More significant than width is the hardness of timber. Some of the logs I cut at 30" take longer to cut than the Jarrah (a relatively soft wood - about the same as Hickory) at 52"


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## sachsmo (Feb 15, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> I'm talking about bigger than 28", the 1220 can only cut up too 28". I want to slab some 40" stuff with ease.
> I missed out on a 880 a week or two ago. A buddy told me he saw an add in the local advisor for one, to late. Damn



Good luck,

"slabbing 40 inch stuff with ease" will take a saw that has not been made.

An 090 , 880, 3120, 125 Mac none of these will slab 40 inches "with ease" they will cut it, but slowly at best.


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## qbilder (Feb 15, 2013)

Anybody regularly cutting 40"+ slabs is either seriously looking at a Lucas slabbing mill, already has one, or something similar. I took my 084 to the mountain last weekend to cut a giant juniper stump & all I was doing was splitting it. The 3' bar just barely went through the narrow side. Juniper is soft and cuts nice, kinda like a soft maple, but even still it took a few minutes to get through a 5' long cut through 3-4' material. That was just to split the log so I could handle it on my band mill. The band mill by comparison made 30" slabs of the same juniper in about 15 seconds each. Granted I would never have been able to get that juniper without the 084, but it's not something I'm going to look forward to milling with "regularly". I will use it for big stuff to cut down to size for my other mill, or possibly an occasional wide slab of root ball or crotch.


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## sachsmo (Feb 15, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> Thats a good question then. What is the biggest a log CSM can do regularly? And what is the biggest slab you guys have peeled off? I know i've seen some 60" or greater slabs before. If you had trouble w/ 28'' oak, what are they running?



The 28" White Oak was no problem, it was actually 36+ but we had to freehand quite a bit off the side since my CSM would only do 28" max.

It was pretty slow going, but we got 5 nice slabs. (3" by 9 foot long each)

I now have rails and a 50+ bar that will do 46", just haven't ran across a log to try it on. 28" with 100cc is not a cake walk. 46" of Oak?

I may need to get a double powerhead bar if I was to do much of that. and I bet at 200cc it will still be slow going.


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## brookpederson (Feb 15, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> Good luck,
> 
> "slabbing 40 inch stuff with ease" will take a saw that has not been made.
> 
> An 090 , 880, 3120, 125 Mac none of these will slab 40 inches "with ease" they will cut it, but slowly at best.



I guess I shouldn't have said with ease. But with efficiency. One would think their would be a easier way to slab a big log. Other than buying 1 or 2 100 cc saws plus mill, Lucas mill plus slabing atach( and you might as well get the surfacer as well) or a huge bandsaw. The biggest timberking only cuts to 36" wtf. 
Now don't laugh, but how would a two man rip saw work? Undoubtably alot of work but I'm only thinking about 6-8 40" slabs a year. It would need a guide to keep it level though the cut. It would be very portable. And I would have to hire a couple of tight ends to run it. OK now I'm laughing.


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## brookpederson (Feb 15, 2013)

bigmoose said:


> I will check my manual but I have had 30 inch logs on mime. I think it will handle a 34, but like I said I will have to check my manual.



Just checked TK website 1220 has a 29" throat. But I have found that 28" is about max, unless you pencil cut the to logs. But I'm looking to have slabs with two live edges.


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## sachsmo (Feb 15, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> Just checked TK website 1220 has a 29" throat. But I have found that 28" is about max, unless you pencil cut the to logs. But I'm looking to have slabs with two live edges.



Get an 84" bar, then you can noodle 12 foot+ slabs.

Noodlin' would be loads faster than rippin'


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## qbilder (Feb 15, 2013)

brookpederson said:


> Just checked TK website 1220 has a 29" throat. But I have found that 28" is about max, unless you pencil cut the to logs. But I'm looking to have slabs with two live edges.



My mill will slab 30". A Hudson Oscar 52 will handle a 52" log. Big band mills are around, but you'd need a WM1000 or a slabber mill to do really big stuff.


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## BobL (Feb 15, 2013)

qbilder said:


> Anybody regularly cutting 40"+ slabs is either seriously looking at a Lucas slabbing mill, already has one, or something similar. . . . ..



Lucas mills are the most common portables mills in Australia and are also used by commercial slab cutters. 



> Juniper is soft and cuts nice, kinda like a soft maple, but even still it took a few minutes to get through a 5' long cut through 3-4' material.


Some of the 12 fit Aussie hardwood slabs I have cut can take 20 minutes or so but I'm not pushing. 






I'm only an occasional miler and don't want to go into commercial lumber making but a major decider for me is secure storage space. I have plenty of low security space to store timber but nowhere secure and convenient to put a band mill or Lucas mill close to where I live (1/8th acre of inner city residential block) but I can store 4 CS mills and do all my maintenance in my home shop.


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## qbilder (Feb 15, 2013)

Very nice, Bob! What kind of log is that? Looks like it'll maybe have some nice crotch figure. Looks big, too.


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## BobL (Feb 15, 2013)

qbilder said:


> Very nice, Bob! What kind of log is that? Looks like it'll maybe have some nice crotch figure. Looks big, too.



All the grimy details are here.
http://www.arboristsite.com/milling-saw-mills/122147-2.htm


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