# Best wood stove insert



## Reddog35 (Jun 4, 2008)

I am building a 2650 sqft house and I want to get a wood stove insert. I am not planning to have this as my prime heat source but that may change as heating prices go up. What brands and features should I look for?


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## A. Stanton (Jun 4, 2008)

For a house your size, you are going to need a big one. I have a Pacific Energy and like it. They make a model called the Summit that heats 3,000 sq feet and I would advise you to get that one. Just be sure that it will fit in your fireplace. You will pay about $2,500 plus the price of a chimney liner which is about $800. This sucker is all cast iron and fire brick-lined. It weights over 450 lbs.


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## wkpoor (Jun 4, 2008)

If you are building a new house I would do a free standing stove with a pipe through the ceiling. I have a stove downstairs and a fireplace on the first floor. If I had it to do all over again I never wood have put in the fireplace, just another stove on a large hearth.


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## Reddog35 (Jun 4, 2008)

A. Stanton said:


> For a house your size, you are going to need a big one. I have a Pacific Energy and like it. They make a model called the Summit that heats 3,000 sq feet and I would advise you to get that one. Just be sure that it will fit in your fireplace. You will pay about $2,500 plus the price of a chimney liner which is about $800. This sucker is all cast iron and fire brick-lined. It weights over 450 lbs.



Which model do you have now? Did you get it from a local dealer or buy it online? What are your burn times like-can you burn all night?


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## Reddog35 (Jun 4, 2008)

wkpoor said:


> If you are building a new house I would do a free standing stove with a pipe through the ceiling. I have a stove downstairs and a fireplace on the first floor. If I had it to do all over again I never wood have put in the fireplace, just another stove on a large hearth.



What about the 1st floor stove don't you like?


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## KindlingKing (Jun 4, 2008)

If you can't do a freestanding stove, get a Lopi or an Avalon. I have Avalon's Olympic (largest they make) and it is fabulous. Its a non-cat and takes a 24" log (3.2 cu ft firebox). If you want overnight burns and don't want to have to get up constantly to stoke the fire get the biggest unit you can afford. There are many other good brands out there. Just don't let anyone talk you into a catalytic stove. They cost you a pretty penny every couple of years to buy replacement catalysts (every year if you burn unseasoned wood). You can get stoves that are just as clean burning and which are also EPA phase II compliant that don't cost you a penny to burn for the life of the stove..... Best of luck in your decision.


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## 046 (Jun 4, 2008)

totally agree... if you are building from scratch. get a free standing wood stove. main reason is it's easier to plumb ducting into house's main distribution ducts. 

if house is already built with a fireplace. then it's best to use existing infrastructure with a fireplace insert. 

go with a insert with a secondary burn system. ask for references of other local folks with similar size houses using that model. you need to find out real wood usage in cords and what size house unit will actually heat. 



wkpoor said:


> If you are building a new house I would do a free standing stove with a pipe through the ceiling. I have a stove downstairs and a fireplace on the first floor. If I had it to do all over again I never wood have put in the fireplace, just another stove on a large hearth.


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## Reddog35 (Jun 4, 2008)

Has any one herd of the RSF wood stove insert? Are they any good?


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## wkpoor (Jun 4, 2008)

> What about the 1st floor stove don't you like?



Don't have a 1st floor stove. My stove is in the walk out basement. I have a fireplace on the 1st floor. Really wish I had a stove instead on a large hearth. However the convenience of the walk out basement makes it easy to get the fuel in and heating the basement effectively heats the whole house.


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## A. Stanton (Jun 5, 2008)

Reddog35 said:


> Which model do you have now? Did you get it from a local dealer or buy it online? What are your burn times like-can you burn all night?



I bought the middle model from a dealer. It heats 2,000 sq feet; the Summit wouldn't fit in my fireplace. The sucker won't burn all night. I only get about a 4-5 hour burn. The Summit is advertised as giving an 8 hour burn. Forgot to say that Pacific Energy gives a lifetime warranty on most of the parts, if not all.


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## huskystihl (Jun 11, 2008)

KindlingKing said:


> If you can't do a freestanding stove, get a Lopi or an Avalon. I have Avalon's Olympic (largest they make) and it is fabulous. Its a non-cat and takes a 24" log (3.2 cu ft firebox). If you want overnight burns and don't want to have to get up constantly to stoke the fire get the biggest unit you can afford. There are many other good brands out there. Just don't let anyone talk you into a catalytic stove. They cost you a pretty penny every couple of years to buy replacement catalysts (every year if you burn unseasoned wood). You can get stoves that are just as clean burning and which are also EPA phase II compliant that don't cost you a penny to burn for the life of the stove..... Best of luck in your decision.



I agree! I have the avalon raneer and it heats my entire 2400 sq ft house and literally heats you out and it was only rated for 1800 sq ft.


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## mranum (Aug 12, 2008)

*This is old I know but.........*



Reddog35 said:


> Has any one herd of the RSF wood stove insert? Are they any good?




Yeah RSF makes a very good unit, in the form of high efficiency fireplaces anyway. A friend of mine has one and I looked hard at them and the BIS brand before making my choice for the BIS. Only because I preferred one dealer over the other.


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## infomet (Aug 12, 2008)

I have a Buck 91. 4 cubic foot firebox, heats great! You can install it as a stove with legs too. If I were starting again, I'd put the stove on some sort of stand, so I could load it without bending over. Think about how you'll handle ashes too. Again, if I were starting again, I'd have a hollow stone base with an opening to the outside. I'd cut a hole through the base of the stove, so ashes could be pushed down without any handling.


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## mranum (Aug 12, 2008)

infomet said:


> I have a Buck 91. 4 cubic foot firebox, heats great! You can install it as a stove with legs too. If I were starting again, I'd put the stove on some sort of stand, so I could load it without bending over. Think about how you'll handle ashes too. Again, if I were starting again, I'd have a hollow stone base with an opening to the outside. I'd cut a hole through the base of the stove, so ashes could be pushed down without any handling.



Thats kinda what my Dad did when he built his house/fireplace some 40+ years ago. The house was built with a 2 flume masonary chimney that originated in the basement. The fireplace was on the main level and was built into the flume, the lower part of the flume was used as an ash disposal area. He put a trap door in the base of the fireplace so when you needed to clean ashes you just popped up the door and pushed them into the hole. In the basement was a door on the side of the flume and you simply opened it and scooped them out for disposal. It worked really slick and you didn't have the ash mess in the living area.


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## 046 (Aug 12, 2008)

lots of advantages using an existing quality fireplace/hearth. 

fireplace technology has been around since just about the dawn of time. masons KNOW how to built quality fireplaces. 

ashes dump/outside air source, built into firebrick floor makes clean out much easier. gas log starter in place making starting fires a breeze. 

because hearth is designed from scratch to handle high heat... it's a much safer installation. 

main disadvantage of inserts is difficulty of installing ducting to your existing ducts. if fan driven will put out a large amount of heat. problems is getting that heat to the other ends of the house. 

this is no small issue as heat distribution decides overall comfort for your house. free standing wood stoves are much easily to duct into house duct for even heat distribution. 

placing wood stove in center of house would be best of all. 



mranum said:


> Thats kinda what my Dad did when he built his house/fireplace some 40+ years ago. The house was built with a 2 flume masonary chimney that originated in the basement. The fireplace was on the main level and was built into the flume, the lower part of the flume was used as an ash disposal area. He put a trap door in the base of the fireplace so when you needed to clean ashes you just popped up the door and pushed them into the hole. In the basement was a door on the side of the flume and you simply opened it and scooped them out for disposal. It worked really slick and you didn't have the ash mess in the living area.


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## juanboy2k (Aug 12, 2008)

*Summit Burner - Including Analysis*

We have a SUMMIT Pacific Energy insert. Depending on the wood type, and the size of the logs relative to how many I can place in the firebox, it will burn over night from say 11pm thru about 6am, though that's pushing it. I don't always drop the air control to the min setting either though. 

We have a single floor ranch house, about 2900 sq ft. The burner is at one end. We run the ceiling fan (it's in a great room with cathedral ceiling) on medium or low whenever the burner is running, blowing air DOWN. Then, we place a box /window fan in the front hall that shoves the warm air down the front hall, into a bedroom, around a hall in the end opposite from where the burner is, and backup to the great room. The resulting air flow keeps the house (even a therm up on near a kitchen window in the same area as the great room at 70-78). Bedrooms stay comfortably cooler, but the main living area is perfect, if a bit too warm when we have guests over. We frequently open the windows in Dec or Jan if we have over 20-30 folks in house. And no, we generally do not run the central air fan of the furnace to circulate air ... I've tested it, and it just doesn't seem to help a whole lot.

I have the thermostat for the furnace set at 62. It hardly ever runs. 

I do admittedly throw a log on in the morning at about 3-4 am usually, because I get up anyways for the dogs. That makes sure there is heat in the house when I reload prior to leaving for work in the AM.

On those rare days when the temp hovers around single digits all day long, I'll have a neighbor swing by and toss a few more logs in around 1-2pm.

I have a weather monitoring system in/on the house; and have the great room monitored in the ceiling. It is very easy to tell from the charts when the heat is on the UPSIDE vs when it's cooling off. 

I even can have it page me if it gets too hot ... but in practice that's not an issue.

If anyone would like to see a chart or two of the temperatures for various days, compared to the outside temp, let me know. I'll post them hereabouts perhaps.

All in all, the only downside about the SUMMIT is that you have to pretty much let it cool down to remove the ashes .... it has no ash drawer. 

But other than that, the glass is easy to clean, etc. 

I don't have a temp senser for my online system yet for the burner itself (it's on the wrong side of the room for wiring); for that I use a remote grill/oven temp sensor, with the receiver in the bed room so that I can check on the temp from the comfort of my bed. When it falls beolw 140 or so, I know I better get up and go reload. (You can't access the flue very easily so I have to get close via the metal probe in the air OUTlet are of the burner. The highest I've probably ever had it is about 380 or so.)

Here's the web site for my weather system ... 
http://www.johnedelmann.com/weather.html The burner room is the "great room".

John.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 12, 2008)

*Federal Airtight*

I have a gut feeling my stove insert is no longer sold in the USA and that's a bummer because it's a dandy wood heater:





The Federal Airtight 288 is just about all cast iron with a side loading door, two front doors with glass inserts, shaker grates, ash pan, and high efficiency. I no longer use a catalytic cumbustor, but it's optional. It takes a 25" log and weighs in at 550 lb. Overnight burns are possible by adjusting the three air intakes, but I don't throttle it down that much.

Even without running the 2-speed blower, you get lots of convection and radiant heat. At full bore, the flue gas temperature can reach 1400 F, but I usually keep it coasting at about 1000 F. 





Most of the time the doors are closed tight, but I thought I would show you that they do open for atmosphere. I even made a grill for it to cook steaks and chops, and on top I boil water for humidification and have often cooked breakfast with cast iron skillets. Why on earth they stopped making this stove and exporting it to the USA, I'll never know.


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## 046 (Aug 12, 2008)

your federal airtight 288 is one impressive design!!!

just about the most efficient design I've ever seen. it's secondary combustion control chamber is unique. sure wish I could duplicate it's function in my insert. 



Wood Doctor said:


> I have a gut feeling my stove insert is no longer sold in the USA and that's a bummer because it's a dandy wood heater:
> 
> The Federal Airtight 288 is just about all cast iron with a side loading door, two front doors with glass inserts, shaker grates, ash pan, and high efficiency. I no longer use a catalytic cumbustor, but it's optional. It takes a 25" log and weighs in at 550 lb. Overnight burns are possible by adjusting the three air intakes, but I don't throttle it down that much.
> 
> ...


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 12, 2008)

046 said:


> your federal airtight 288 is one impressive design!!!
> 
> just about the most efficient design I've ever seen. it's secondary combustion control chamber is unique. sure wish I could duplicate it's function in my insert.


Thank you, 046, for your kind words as I approach the heating season, my 21st with this marvelous stove/insert. The Federal Airtights do not run by themselves. Their owners have to know what they are doing to make them work right. As the years went by, the stove and I became good friends. I learned what it could do, and it responded by producing fabulous heat.

The only major part that I ever had to replace was installed his year--the fireback plate. This piece finally burned to the point where it warped inward and was reducing the size of the firebox significantly. So, I visited a welding company and obtained a 12" x 24" piece of 5/16" plate steel that I installed. Shucks, it only required me to drill two holes to hang it using the bolts that were already there. For $20 and using my drill press and one of my wrenches, I was in the clear.

So, men, now I am ready for season #21 with one of my best friends--a wood stove/insert that I can trust and one that will allow me to stay warm as toast (and cook a couple of juicy steaks!). We all live on a very good Earth, but we still need heat.


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## stihlwielder (Oct 13, 2009)

*Federal Airtight*

I know this thread is old but I stumbled upon because I just scored the same exact insert off of craigslist. I was actually looking for advice on how to install it. What parts do I need etc. Doesn't seem like a tough job but I want to make sure its up to code and I don't smoke myself out.

As for the stove itself I can't wait to use it. Growing up my parents had a Federal Airtight free standing stove so I'm quiet familiar with how to operate it and I remeber it being very efficient. Everything looks pretty much the same as they had. Got it for $150 bucks!!!


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## Wood Doctor (Oct 13, 2009)

*$150 bucks!*



stihlwielder said:


> I know this thread is old but I stumbled upon because I just scored the same exact insert off of craigslist. I was actually looking for advice on how to install it. What parts do I need etc. Doesn't seem like a tough job but I want to make sure its up to code and I don't smoke myself out.
> 
> As for the stove itself I can't wait to use it. Growing up my parents had a Federal Airtight free standing stove so I'm quiet familiar with how to operate it and I remeber it being very efficient. Everything looks pretty much the same as they had. Got it for $150 bucks!!!


For $150 you stole this stove but don't tell that to the seller. You can download a complete 24-page intstruction manual, written in English.

Here is a link to the manual.
http://rs.woodmanspartsplus.com/company_41/Manual_DWPre1990_EN4.pdf.pdf

Welcome to the unofficial Federal Airtight stove owners club and welcome to the forum!


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## urhstry (Oct 14, 2009)

Nothing but good to say about Harman Stoves......

http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp?cat=inserts&prd=wood-inserts&f=EXCWBINS

Ask anyone who owns one.


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## Kansas (Oct 14, 2009)

Reddog35 said:


> I am building a 2650 sqft house and I want to get a wood stove insert. I am not planning to have this as my prime heat source but that may change as heating prices go up. What brands and features should I look for?



The only experience I have is with the one I use now, its an Englander 13nci as far as I know it works great nothing I can think of to change or add to. 

I only heat one half of the house with it though where we watch tv. I can say this it wont go more than 4-6 hrs w/o adding wood some would say thats a problem its ok with me though for now it is on the small side fwtw.

Kansas


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## rick2752 (Oct 15, 2009)

Dont forget to add plenty of cold air returns in the room the insert will be in. You can then circulate the heat thru the whole house better with the furnace fan. Keep in mind thermostat placement also, you dont want the thermostat in the room with the insert as it will trick the furnace into not running and your bedrooms will be cold.


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## pilot-werx (Oct 15, 2009)

I have a free standing PE Summit and it is the best wood stove that I have owned. What I like is that it is very easy to control. It will throw as much or as little heat as you want. The burn time is phenomenal IMO. For instance, last night I loaded it up at 9pm. Let it burn on hi for 10 minutes then closed up the air control. At six this morning I still had some large coal chunks and it was still throwing lost of heat. 

I am heating 5000 sqft and I looked at them all before I purchased and I liked the construction of the PE the best.


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## Shine (Oct 16, 2009)

Check out the Quadra Fire 7100FP. I would post a link if I new how


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## hockeypuck (Oct 18, 2009)

*Hampton HI300*

I would take a look at the Hampton insert. I looked for about two months before getting one of these. great insert.


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## Lillie (Nov 9, 2009)

*Thank you Dr. Ed*



Wood Doctor said:


> For $150 you stole this stove but don't tell that to the seller. You can download a complete 24-page intstruction manual, written in English.
> 
> Here is a link to the manual.
> http://rs.woodmanspartsplus.com/company_41/Manual_DWPre1990_EN4.pdf.pdf
> ...



Thank you so much for the link. I have a Federal Airtight and I barely know how to use it (this is only my second season with it...with any wood stove for that matter). It was only this past weekend that I said to a friend "I gotta get a manual" - voila, Wood Doctor, you saved the day. Who knew about the Catalytic Converter? Not me. I don't know the model, but it's free standing, wood burning. It looks very similar to your insert, except it does not have anything but space under the firebox, but next weekend I will look on its underside with a flashlight to see what might or might not be there. It's a real beauty. I cleaned what looked like a few little rust marks on the top using a soft toothbrush - not with water or anything, just rubbing until that rusty stuff came off.

Thanks again. I printed out the manual.


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## tibikedad (Nov 9, 2009)

I have had both an insert and a free standing wood stove. I much prefer the free standing stove for two reasons ... first, it puts out more heat, since it radiates heat even if the blower is off, and second, I can place a pot on the top to boil off water. The insert is useless without the blower running (doesn't do any good during a power outage).

That said, the insert is less intrusive, since it sticks out only about 6 inches. The stove takes over 2 feet of space in front of the fireplace.


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## sly13 (Nov 9, 2009)

I have a Lopi Revere in a older house 90 yrs. Tall ceilings ,not great insulation it does a good job heating the downstairs. Good burn times IMO. I got mine for free though so I might be biased.


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## schumi78 (Jan 3, 2010)

*federal airtight insert*

greetings,

i have a very similar federal airtight as woodDoctor but it seems i'm missing the blower. we bought the house a year ago and we didn't use inserts before. Can i buy the blower somewhere? the temperature also isn't getting over 500 on the gauge, probably that means the catalyst needs to be changed as well. Any input is welcomed, i want to learn more about the stove because i really like it and i want it to function at its optimal level.


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## reccutter (Jan 3, 2010)

Alot of good information already.I'm a new member myself but have spent much more time reading. Seems people are consistently talking good about the pacific energy stoves on this site and other wood heat sites.They do look nice too.The Jotul brand is nicely crafted but the lack of ash pan seems like it might be a slight inconvienence. I have been heating my (much smaller)house four years with a small,cheap lowes 1/2 off century free standing stove.I get enough heat out of it for propane not to kick on. First year here propane bill almost killed me. For some reason the flush mounted inserts don't seem to put is much heat,but maybe another owner of one can give their opinion on that matter. I think a big factor not only for heat but performance and draft is not putting chimney outside the house like so many builders love to do. also if you can opt for a larger hearth,which comes in very handy for firewood(not being a fire hazard) and or setting a free standing stove. congrats on new home and good luck


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## Slvrmple72 (Jan 4, 2010)

I have an old Treemont in the basement fireplace and would like to put a nice insert in the upstairs( first floor) fireplace so this thread has been quite useful. The question I have is will I need a flue liner insert or will the existing one be sufficient?


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## reccutter (Jan 4, 2010)

Slvrmple72 said:


> The question I have is will I need a flue liner insert or will the existing one be sufficient?



Slvrmple, Yes, unless you want to pull the stove out atleast once a year to clean the creosote behind it and chimney. Especialy new stoves requiring the specified pipe. to big chimney= cold, cresote will stick to cold surface. if you have a damper, that may need cut out to install liner, but the stove will perform much better.


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## schumi78 (Jan 4, 2010)

thanks reccutter. I am missing the blower for the insert, do you know where i could find a replacement? i removed the cap where the blower should be, there is a hole and 3 screws. the shape of the cap is triangular- quarter of a circle, like a pizza slice. I've seen blowers on ebay but from the measurements it seems i can only hold the blower by 2 screws at best out of the four required on the blower... any advice on that? 

thank you.


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## 046 (Jan 4, 2010)

grainger should have the entire blower assembly... unless your insert needs a special high temp blower. then you will need to mail order from a specialty wood stove supplier

best to take old one off and let grainger match it up
you can download the manual for your stove still. 

hopefully wooddoctor should be along to help you out



schumi78 said:


> thanks reccutter. I am missing the blower for the insert, do you know where i could find a replacement? i removed the cap where the blower should be, there is a hole and 3 screws. the shape of the cap is triangular- quarter of a circle, like a pizza slice. I've seen blowers on ebay but from the measurements it seems i can only hold the blower by 2 screws at best out of the four required on the blower... any advice on that?
> 
> thank you.


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 5, 2010)

046 said:


> grainger should have the entire blower assembly... unless your insert needs a special high temp blower. then you will need to mail order from a specialty wood stove supplier
> 
> best to take old one off and let grainger match it up
> you can download the manual for your stove still.
> ...


Here's a suppilier for Fasco squirrel cage blowers:
http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/fasco/fasco_blower.htm
Best blower match that I see for my Federal Airtight 288 stove is the 50747-D401. Check out the dimensions, especially the mounting holes on the flange. None of these are 2-speed, but that's a small sacrifice. Fasco clones are also available from various suppliers at slightly reduced prices.


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## Booshcat (Jan 5, 2010)

Wood Doctor said:


> Here's a suppilier for Fasco squirrel cage blowers:
> http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/fasco/fasco_blower.htm
> Best blower match that I see for my Federal Airtight 288 stove is the 50747-D401. Check out the dimensions, especially the mounting holes on the flange. None of these are 2-speed, but that's a small sacrifice. Fasco clones are also available from various suppliers at slightly reduced prices.



Hey Doc...
Your'e gonna need your own forum soon with all of these Federals out there!
It's wonderful that you are able to help.


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## schumi78 (Jan 5, 2010)

Thank you wood doctor, I wouldn't have been able to locate the blower without your help. There are 2-3 similar blowers on the site with similar mounting holes but i ordered the one you mentioned. 

I hope all goes as planned, i want to have some warm air blow into our family room and kitchen, we are having temps in the teens at night and it is getting harder to warm the area into the 60's.

I will post here back mentioning the installation and how it went, maybe it would be a help for someone out there. 

thank you all for the help


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## schumi78 (Jan 8, 2010)

So i got the Centrifugal Blower 115 Volts Fasco # 50747-D401 delivered today. It was a perfect match with my federal airtight insert. It made a big difference in spreading the heat around the room and the entire floor. I just need to ground this thing, i didn't have the proper wiring to do so.... I attached a photo as well.


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 8, 2010)

schumi78 said:


> So i got the Centrifugal Blower 115 Volts Fasco # 50747-D401 delivered today. It was a perfect match with my Federal Airtight insert. It made a big difference in spreading the heat around the room and the entire floor. I just need to ground this thing, i didn't have the proper wiring to do so.... I attached a photo as well.



Looks good. I wonder. Is it possible that you can reverse the mounting so that the wires are toward the wall (chmney) rather that toward the room? That means that the squirrel cage and motor are oriented upwards, above the exhaust, rather than down. Seems like that would look better.

If not, at least you have a solution and a working part that fits the stove. Glad to be of help. I believe you can attach the green ground wire from the 3-wire cord to any part of the cage or the stove. That should ground it out.


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## schumi78 (Jan 8, 2010)

this is another setting, i got two screws out of three holding it. Its fine, there is no vibration anyway. i'm not sure which face is best to face us.

As for the ground, i will get a 14 gauge wire with a ground, hook the ground wire to the blower body and then trough the wire and into my outlet ground.

new photo attached.


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## clinchscavalry (Jan 8, 2010)

infomet said:


> I have a Buck 91. 4 cubic foot firebox, heats great! You can install it as a stove with legs too. If I were starting again, I'd put the stove on some sort of stand, so I could load it without bending over. Think about how you'll handle ashes too. Again, if I were starting again, I'd have a hollow stone base with an opening to the outside. I'd cut a hole through the base of the stove, so ashes could be pushed down without any handling.





I have a small Buck stove from the late 70s, freestanding in an upstairs room. For over 30 years it has been almost maintenance free, only having to replace the "gaskets" around the doors once. It heats great and will keep a good bed of coals all night if dry rounds are used. Overall, it's been a top notch unit, and it can really put out some serious heat with the air unrestricted.

We looked at a new Buck today for possible use as an insert in a downstairs fireplace. This was a model 80, and it had a "trap door" in the bottom which emptied into an ash pan underneath. Our old stove must be cleaned out with a shovel. The new model has a full glass door on the front and front mounted blower also. It looks well made, and I'm seriously considering buying it next week. 

Do any of you have experience with this model, and, if so, how does it work ?


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