# Falling Technique



## Tree Feller (Oct 4, 2012)

I dont have any pics, but we were up in Ohio this past weekend on a hunting trip and they were logging part of the property we hunt on. i was looking at some of the stumps and butt cuts and was a little confused. it appears they are using a short bar because they were cutting from two sides most of the time. It looked as if they were using a normal notch on the face. But the hinge did not go across the stump. It was if they left a post on one side only. i understand the concept of boreing out the center which leaves a post on each side that acts like a hinge, but this was not the case it was only on one side??? The group of loggers was select cutting not clear cutting. Mostly walnut, popular and other large trees. The face cuts where very shallow with most looking like a dutchman??? Did they cut like this to prevent splitting the tree or the swing ot roll it through standing timber? Could some one with some more expierance give me some insite on this? Thanks for the help! I live in NC and i dont see many trees cut like this. It was every tree they cut?


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## Bearcreek (Oct 4, 2012)

It's common here to cut down to a very small hinge or sometimes almost no hinge at all when logging high value wood to prevent damage to the butt log. As long as you're in a spot where you don't have to worry to much about exactly where the tree goes it's ok. Once the tree starts to go you keep cutting while its in its first part of the fall. Can be dangerous if not done correctly but what isn't in our industry? Could also be somebody didn't know what they were doing. How big were the "posts" they left?


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## 056 kid (Oct 4, 2012)

Sounds like stump jumping shenanigans. A lot of good ole boys cut that way. It's basicly bucking trees right off the stump. Dosent really pull wood if done right, but directional control is non existent. I'm not gonna lie, il jump one off the stump so it can ride freely through the canopy. Beats ####ing around trying to knock down something sstill on the hinge and stuck as hell...


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## s219 (Oct 4, 2012)

Not sure what you mean about the Dutchman comment on the face cut -- an actual dutchman would be bad, and could split the butt wide open. Nobody does that intentionally. Was it perhaps a block-out face cut with a snipe on the bottom? Or a Humbolt with a kicker?


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## mdavlee (Oct 4, 2012)

A dutchman can be used to get the tree to roll a little as it's coming down while still on the stump. I've used them on very slight leaning trees that needed to go maybe 10-15° off of lean. I wouldn't want to try some of the ultra soft dutchman that the guy on youtube does in a brittle hard wood.


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## madhatte (Oct 4, 2012)

OP: if you could put up some pics of the stumps in question, we'd be able to tell you more. It sounds like the cutters are either really good or really dangerous. There's a lot of nuance that can be read from a stump.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 4, 2012)

Lots of old school choppers cut that way. They were never "taught" the newer book learned ways.
A guy I know cuts almost every single tree like that. And he cuts more wood than any 3 other guys I know combined. I swear, he cuts one and four will fall.


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## Metals406 (Oct 4, 2012)

056 kid said:


> Sounds like stump jumping shenanigans. A lot of good ole boys cut that way. It's basicly bucking trees right off the stump. Dosent really pull wood if done right, but directional control is non existent. I'm not gonna lie, il jump one off the stump so it can ride freely through the canopy. Beats ####ing around trying to knock down something sstill on the hinge and stuck as hell...



Sure you have directional control. . . For as long as needed anyway.


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## rwoods (Oct 4, 2012)

Tree Feller said:


> I dont have any pics, but we were up in Ohio this past weekend on a hunting trip and they were logging part of the property we hunt on. i was looking at some of the stumps and butt cuts and was a little confused. *it appears they are using a short bar because they were cutting from two sides most of the time.* It looked as if they were using a normal notch on the face. *But the hinge did not go across the stump.* It was if they left a post on one side only. i understand the concept of boreing out the center which leaves a post on each side that acts like a hinge, but this was not the case it was only on one side??? The group of loggers was select cutting not clear cutting. Mostly walnut, popular and other large trees. The face cuts where very shallow with most looking like a dutchman??? Did they cut like this to prevent splitting the tree or the swing ot roll it through standing timber? Could some one with some more expierance give me some insite on this? Thanks for the help! I live in NC and i dont see many trees cut like this. It was every tree they cut?



I'm not sure if I have a good visualization, but could it be that they were thinning the hinge as it fell and due to the short bar they could only reach half of it? Ron


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## redprospector (Oct 4, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Sure you have directional control. . . For as long as needed anyway.



Hahaha. That made me think of something that happened a long time ago.
One of the "big bosses" asked my saw boss; "Who do you have that's a good directional faller?"
My saw boss answered; "Andy." I stuck my chest out and swelled up about 2 seconds too soon, cuz then he said; "Yep, where ever it's leanin' that's where it's falling. I've never seen him miss." 

I think that was one of the things that gave me some incentive to try and learn to do it right.

Andy


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## hammerlogging (Oct 4, 2012)

madhatte said:


> OP: if you could put up some pics of the stumps in question, we'd be able to tell you more. It sounds like the cutters are either really good or really dangerous. There's a lot of nuance that can be read from a stump.



Its the latter. Some folks are reading too much in to this, giving a bit too much credit. It is an old method that will get the tree on the ground with little chance of butt log breakage or fiber pull. It does nothing for directional control or preventing the butt from coming back at the faller, but it is another example of boring pre- GOL existance, this is biblical stuff.

Basically, cut in as far as you can on the side you want the tree to go (think horizontal cut of face), pull out and take a chip out, creatinga face with about 6" of kerf bypass on the horixontal. Bore out the heart. Bore out the bad (under)side. Bore out the good side. release. leaves 2 legs on either side that would count as a hinge, no matter how minimal, but that is negated by the massive kerf bypass on the face. Don't cut like this.

Dutchmans and variations work great on hardwoods as long as you are choosing the right stems and can keep up with it safely as it starts to go.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 4, 2012)

Read somewhere that dutch mans started because the faller was lazy "Those damn dutchmen never face the tree up right" I've also heard of two types of dutching that I know of 1: and the more common method of not connecting the undercut with yer gun cut cleanly hopefully pushing the tree a little away from the dutch, 2: realizing you gunned it badly and taking a chunk of the block left over from facing it and pounding it into yer face cut. Both methods work, but on every stump? Sounds like someone is just plain lazy, inexperienced, or in a big dam hurry. As far as leaving a little fiber on one side that happens when yer using a bar that's to short for the wood yer cutting, getting all excitable and cutting all yer holding wood on the first side is a good way to park a tree in the wrong place, like on top of your head


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## imagineero (Oct 5, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> Read somewhere that dutch mans started because the faller was lazy "Those damn dutchmen never face the tree up right" I've also heard of two types of dutching that I know of 1: and the more common method of not connecting the undercut with yer gun cut cleanly hopefully pushing the tree a little away from the dutch, 2: realizing you gunned it badly and taking a chunk of the block left over from facing it and pounding it into yer face cut. Both methods work, but on every stump? Sounds like someone is just plain lazy, inexperienced, or in a big dam hurry. As far as leaving a little fiber on one side that happens when yer using a bar that's to short for the wood yer cutting, getting all excitable and cutting all yer holding wood on the first side is a good way to park a tree in the wrong place, like on top of your head



I've only heard of that first method being called a dutchman, but to my mind it acts more like a snipe... and a bad one at that!

The soft dutchman (also called a kerf dutchman) style is used with leaners to get them around a little futher than you normal might without the hinge side snapping, but it's unpredictable and ought to only be used for convenience. It acts in the same way as an offset snipe, but with a slower action. 

You start with a standard humblodt, but the fance angle needs to be fairly shallow or the tree will have too much weight in motion and you'll get no swing effect. There's a sweet spot for maximum effectiveness that you need to experiment with in your local wood to get right. Then you start cutting a series of kerfs into one side of the undercut. The kerfs are cut level. They're cut deeply into one side, and not at all in the other. You make the back cut, but try to leave more holding wood on the side that has the kerfs, and less on the un cut side. The tree will swing to the side that has the kerfs cut. It's a bit counterintuitive.

The way it works, is that the face starts closing. As the face closes up, all those kerfs start compressing, but it's gradual and progressive, or soft. Not like an offset snipe that would try to kick it all at once. The solid side of the undercut starts putting pressure on the gun, so the tree starts swinging towards the kerf side. How many kerfs, how deep, and how far apart varies a lot by tree size and species, and how far you need to swing it. At some point, the hinge will tear out on the un kerfed side.... This is a good thing. If the kerf side of the hinge snaps first you wont get much swing. As that hinge lets go, it will roll and swing a little further.

It's a very seat of the pants method. The results are unpredictable, but it's great if you need to get a tree 'somwehere over there' when that place is far from where you could drop it by standard methods. I don't use it often, but I've had some luck with it when I've got to swing a tree through a bunch of others and miss canopys at certain times on the way down.

Shaun


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## Tree Feller (Oct 5, 2012)

I tried to attach a drawing of the stumps but not sure if it worked. To address some of the questions, the post where around 6" long and 1 to 2" thick. As far as the dutchman goes I ment they let the saw kerf go beyond where the two face cuts met? I coul be wrong as far as what that is really called? So i was correct in think they cut like this to save the wood. Looks to me as was posted before you have very little contol doing this way. (by only leaving one post on one side). I understand leaving two post act just like a normal hindge. I do recall the stumps looking very sloppy in regards to the face cuts and notches. But i will give them credit the stumps was the lowest i had ever seen. No more than 3 to 4 inches high. I dont for see my self trying this styl for my needs. Thanks for all the input and sorry no pics, i'm 5 hours south of the location. Any more thoughts would be greatly appreciated!


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## bitzer (Oct 5, 2012)

Sounds like boys in a hurry with short bars trying to keep their butts clean. Thats it, thats all. Pretty much how everyone cuts up here.

Oh yeah, no one ever uses dutchmans intentionally. No one. That would be dangerous. Yes, I'm an #######. 




























Its just amazing. Out of the 5000bf or so I cut every morning I'll bet 3500 of it gets on the ground with a dutchman, but I don't have any nice, super clean stump pics of just a straight up, cut the entire far side off from the face before the back-cut shots. You know, the usual. Had some damn nice speed dutches on some reds yesterday. Also a nice wide face with a snipe, a heart nip, and a full face dutch does wonders for sailing through standing timber without losing all control of cutting them off the stump. They will hit the lay nine times out of ten if done right and will roll right through for you. Think SELECT cut. Almost too select sometimes.
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## northmanlogging (Oct 5, 2012)

always figured the ultra soft dutch just a variation of the kerf dutch, the other is called a dutchman block... many ways to kill a tree... some just work better than others.


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## bitzer (Oct 5, 2012)

imagineero said:


> I've only heard of that first method being called a dutchman, but to my mind it acts more like a snipe... and a bad one at that!
> 
> The soft dutchman (also called a kerf dutchman) style is used with leaners to get them around a little futher than you normal might without the hinge side snapping, but it's unpredictable and ought to only be used for convenience. It acts in the same way as an offset snipe, but with a slower action.
> 
> ...



The far side needs to be cut off and often sits on your bar as you watch the top. Thats the whole point. Movement. Watching the top is key. You need to cut at the right time. Leave more holding wood than you think you need. You may need it. You also need a lot of space for the swing, brushing of limbs will kill the movement and there you sit. Species is definetly a factor in holdability. Sometimes you have to cut it off before it goes too far. Lots of play involved with this one and for me rarely used in typical timber falling operations. It has its time and place, but a lot of stump time needs to be put in to make it work right.


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## Tree Feller (Oct 5, 2012)

bitzer said:


> Sounds like boys in a hurry with short bars trying to keep their butts clean. Thats it, thats all. Pretty much how everyone cuts up here.
> 
> Oh yeah, no one ever uses dutchmans intentionally. No one. That would be dangerous. Yes, I'm an #######.
> 
> ...





EXACTLY what they where doing! The stumps i saw looked exactly like you show in the pics. So its a quick and dirty way to get the timber on the ground to save bucking time and fall the trees through standing timber? Dont get me wrong i'm NOT knocking these guys or anyone else that does this, i just wanted to know why! The guys where putting the timber on the ground and getting it out quick. So i guess its what ever works for you. it looks kinda dangerous to me but i dont fall timber everyday! i just like looking at other peoples work in hopes of picking up some pointers! You sa thats haw everyone does it up here so i assume your in the North??


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## bitzer (Oct 5, 2012)

Tree Feller said:


> EXACTLY what they where doing! The stumps i saw looked exactly like you show in the pics. So its a quick and dirty way to get the timber on the ground to save bucking time and fall the trees through standing timber? Dont get me wrong i'm NOT knocking these guys or anyone else that does this, i just wanted to know why! The guys where putting the timber on the ground and getting it out quick. So i guess its what ever works for you. it looks kinda dangerous to me but i dont fall timber everyday! i just like looking at other peoples work in hopes of picking up some pointers! You sa thats haw everyone does it up here so i assume your in the North??



I'm in Wisconsin and I know what type of cutting you are talking about. There is a reason for my stumps. The type I know you are talking about there is not. Fine line here maybe for those not making stumps everyday. Holding wood is left on one side or another to get the top of the tree to swing around. Its not just a matter of bucking it off the stump in a hurry to save the wood. The art of timber falling versus cutting timber. Intentionally leaving or removing wood in one place or another in order to achieve an anticipated result. Not short bar boring/cutting off the stump type crap. Although without seeing the stumps in question I can't really say for sure. Maybe they are legit or maybe mine are just ####! The thing is my stumps are not all like that. Its what you need the tree to do. I guess the point here is intentional or unintentional stump work. It probably sounds pretentious to some, but there is an art to laying out timber and doing it effciently. I'm not saying I'm there by any means, but I'm always working at it. 




















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PS: Short bars are for weekend firewood hacks!


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 5, 2012)

Bitz your pics aren't showing up says invalid attatchment.


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## bitzer (Oct 5, 2012)

Hope these work. The thing is, a lot of those older pics, I don't even cut like that much anymore. My stumps have gotten taller & my dutch and face work cleaner. I rarely bore or do anything fancy anymore (soft dutch/sizwheel/etc.). I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving. It seems like you need to change it up once in a while to see where your max ouptut is. I think in logging more than anything else, if something is not working its time for something different. And do it now! I know for a fact you can get a #### ton more wood to the landing with a longer bar, taller stump, & minimal boring if any.






















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## Tree Feller (Oct 5, 2012)

bitzer said:


> I'm in Wisconsin and I know what type of cutting you are talking about. There is a reason for my stumps. The type I know you are talking about there is not. Fine line here maybe for those not making stumps everyday. Holding wood is left on one side or another to get the top of the tree to swing around. Its not just a matter of bucking it off the stump in a hurry to save the wood. The art of timber falling versus cutting timber. Intentionally leaving or removing wood in one place or another in order to achieve an anticipated result. Not short bar boring/cutting off the stump type crap. Although without seeing the stumps in question I can't really say for sure. Maybe they are legit or maybe mine are just ####! The thing is my stumps are not all like that. Its what you need the tree to do. I guess the point here is intentional or unintentional stump work. It probably sounds pretentious to some, but there is an art to laying out timber and doing it effciently. I'm not saying I'm there by any means, but I'm always working at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I agree! There is no doubt in my mind you know what you are doing judgeing by you pics. I think you are correct in saying the type i'm talking about is not the same as what you do. I took some time to look at some of the trees and at the direction they fell the tree and why, and see no real reson to do any fancy cutting. Dont mean to make anyone mad but I'm still thinking they where in a hurry and just cut it down. The fallers seem to be younger so i would say its not that they where stuck in an old technique. Your last pics look very simuliar to what i do most of the time.


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## rwoods (Oct 5, 2012)

bitzer said:


> ... PS: Short bars are for weekend firewood hacks!



bitzer, pleeeease don't lump all us weekend firewood hacks together. I'm one, but I trespass over here for refuge. Some of my kin think you're an idiot for have a long bar and I get tired of explaining that I use long bars because the less time I spend walking behind a partially cut tree the better and despite the added weight it is easier on my back to buck small stuff that is laying on the ground with a long bar. Nice pictures and explanation BTW. Be prepared for possible rebuttals on your no face cut on small stems - I do this on a lot of small stuff (6" to 7") as well but I hadn't had the nerve to admit it on AS. Ron


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## bitzer (Oct 5, 2012)

rwoods said:


> bitzer, pleeeease don't lump all us weekend firewood hacks together. I'm one, but I trespass over here for refuge. Some of my kin think you're an idiot for have a long bar and I get tired of explaining that I use long bars because the less time I spend walking behind a partially cut tree the better and despite the added weight it is easier on my back to buck small stuff that is laying on the ground with a long bar. Nice pictures and explanation BTW. Be prepared for possible rebuttals on your no face cut on small stems - I do this on a lot of small stuff (6" to 7") as well but I hadn't had the nerve to admit it on AS. Ron



My guess is they are not putting food on the table with the wood they're putting on the ground. Do they have "limbing" saws as well? As for the weight, you grow stronger. That longer bar has saved my ass in bound up wood many times.


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## RandyMac (Oct 6, 2012)

pretty soon you will be cutting waist height stumps with a six cube saw


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## northmanlogging (Oct 6, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> pretty soon you will be cutting waist height stumps with a six cube saw



hmm mine only average knee high do I have to wait and they will grow with time? or should I make sure to whiskey often and die my hair grey?:msp_tongue:


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## RandyMac (Oct 6, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> hmm mine only average knee high do I have to wait and they will grow with time? or should I make sure to whiskey often and die my hair grey?:msp_tongue:



that is the ticket


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## rwoods (Oct 6, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> pretty soon you will be cutting waist height stumps with a six cube saw



Pretty close. Mid-thigh for me - except in the rare case of a real nice stem I am going to cut for lumber where the extra length is needed to make my length - or the no face cut variety I don't want to trip over or impale myself on. Ron


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## FSburt (Oct 13, 2012)

One of the "big bosses" asked my saw boss; "Who do you have that's a good directional faller?"
My saw boss answered; "Andy." I stuck my chest out and swelled up about 2 seconds too soon, cuz then he said; "Yep, where ever it's leanin' that's where it's falling. I've never seen him miss." 

I got a laugh out this one. This sounds like alot of our govt fallers who can fall em with the lean like nobodys business. All they need is the good ole "big blue wedge" put in for looks. LOL


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## MMG (Oct 15, 2012)

_ I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving._

Im no pro feller by any stretch, I come here to learn so I will never offer advice on falling timber. However, I do know that we lost a logger with 30+ years experiance less than a mile from my house last year when he didn't face cut a 10" black oak. It barber chaired several feet up and hit him in the chest, crushed his sternum and was dead in just a few minutes. 

Be careful out there guys!

:msp_sad:


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## Tree Feller (Oct 16, 2012)

MosesR said:


> _ I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving._
> 
> Im no pro feller by any stretch, I come here to learn so I will never offer advice on falling timber. However, I do know that we lost a logger with 30+ years experiance less than a mile from my house last year when he didn't face cut a 10" black oak. It barber chaired several feet up and hit him in the chest, crushed his sternum and was dead in just a few minutes.
> 
> ...





I know a guy that farms in the summer and cuts timber in the winter. he nevers notches a tree!
I thought i was learning a good tip until it almost got me in trouble a few times. Now i notch everything over 6"! I'm far from a pro but better to be safe than sorry. this same guy had 30" popular sit straight down on his saw because he did not face it and the wind caught it spun it 90 degrees and it landed across a creek, luckly no one was hurt. This site has taught me alot but you do have to be careful, some of the advice given (not on this thread) should not be followed! thanks for all the input and help from:msp_biggrin: all!


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## bitzer (Oct 18, 2012)

MosesR said:


> _ I don't even face anything less than 10" on the stump anymore. Pointless. Always evolving._
> 
> Im no pro feller by any stretch, I come here to learn so I will never offer advice on falling timber. However, I do know that we lost a logger with 30+ years experiance less than a mile from my house last year when he didn't face cut a 10" black oak. It barber chaired several feet up and hit him in the chest, crushed his sternum and was dead in just a few minutes.
> 
> ...



You're right. I meant to come back and edit that statement a little, but never got around to it. I forget that AS is open for the world to view and there may be consequences for the impresionable. I should have said I often do not face up small dbh timber. There are circumstances that you absolutly should like when you need full directional control or the tree is likely to chair. I cut a small white oak the other day that was shaped like a rainbow. I faced it or it would have split. The bottom line is knowing what you can get away with, but also using common sense and experience to know when a particular technique is safe. Thats often why many of the regulars on here are relectuant to give advice. There are WAY too many variables for a one-size fits all expalination. At the end of the day I want to make it home to the wife and kids in one piece. Time and money are never above safety for me. 

Yeah I'm no pro faller either. I like to pretend though! :msp_biggrin:


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## rwoods (Oct 18, 2012)

bitzer said:


> You're right. I meant to come back and edit that statement a little, but never got around to it. I forget that AS is open for the world to view and there may be consequences for the impresionable. I should have said I often do not face up small dbh timber. There are circumstances that you absolutly should like when you need full directional control or the tree is likely to chair. I cut a small white oak the other day that was shaped like a rainbow. I faced it or it would have split. The bottom line is knowing what you can get away with, but also using common sense and experience to know when a particular technique is safe. Thats often why many of the regulars on here are relectuant to give advice. There are WAY too many variables for a one-size fits all expalination. At the end of the day I want to make it home to the wife and kids in one piece. Time and money are never above safety for me.
> 
> Yeah I'm no pro faller either. I like to pretend though! :msp_biggrin:



bitzer, it is hard to be precise and clear *and * make complete disclosures/disclaimers - sometimes it is impossible. Nevertheless, I too will elaborate a little further on my earlier post regarding 6" to 7" trees: My general decision point on skipping a face cut is whether or not the tree/stub is such that I can safely man-handle it; that factors in a lot of variables, including height, diameter, condition/defects, etc. In my case, it doesn't amount to a very big/heavy tree or stub. Certainly not any that would result in a usable log. 

It can't be said enough that every tree is different and each poses different risks. I still remember (thankfully) being knocked to the ground and seeing those little stars as a kid when I was hit in the head by a top that broke off as I was ignorantly trying to chop an axe head width tree down with a single blow - didn't. Ron


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## MMG (Oct 18, 2012)

rwoods said:


> bitzer, it is hard to be precise and clear *and * make complete disclosures/disclaimers - sometimes it is impossible. Nevertheless, I too will elaborate a little further on my earlier post regarding 6" to 7" trees: My general decision point on skipping a face cut is whether or not the tree/stub is such that I can safely man-handle it; that factors in a lot of variables, including height, diameter, condition/defects, etc. In my case, it doesn't amount to a very big/heavy tree or stub. Certainly not any that would result in a usable log.
> 
> It can't be said enough that every tree is different and each poses different risks. I still remember (thankfully) being knocked to the ground and seeing those little stars as a kid when I was hit in the head by a top that broke off as I was ignorantly trying to chop an axe head width tree down with a single blow - didn't. Ron



Great discussion! I too don't face cut every tree when it is obvious that there is no need. You just scared me a little.


:msp_scared:

:msp_biggrin:


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## rwoods (Oct 18, 2012)

MosesR said:


> Great discussion! I too don't face cut every tree when it is obvious that there is no need. You just scared me a little.
> 
> 
> :msp_scared:
> ...



Didn't mean to scare anyone. Heck, I'm no logger and I hesitate to post here, but I get tried of all the drama in the other forums so I come over here for some peace, to learn, and mostly to enjoy in the background the company of sensible people. On topic, I can't recall skipping a face cut on anything over 6" to 7" diameter that was also much taller than me. On thin stuff, if I can bow it over, I usually whack it off just like brush cutting and direct the falling with my left hand. :msp_smile: Ron


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## MMG (Oct 18, 2012)

rwoods said:


> Didn't mean to scare anyone. Heck, I'm no logger and I hesitate to post here, but I get tried of all the drama in the other forums so I come over here for some peace, to learn, and mostly to enjoy in the background the company of sensible people. On topic, I can't recall skipping a face cut on anything over 6" to 7" diameter that was also much taller than me. On thin stuff, if I can bow it over, I usually whack it off just like brush cutting and direct the falling with my left hand. :msp_smile: Ron



I am no logger either. To be honest, if a tree is over 16-18" it scares the heck out of me if it isn't an easy cut. Once its on the ground then I am a bada$$ (in my own mind). I do enjoy the dialog on the forum, I always learn something, good or bad. 

I do plan on felling some LARGE white oaks this winter for stave lumber when everythinf else slows down for me. I will be going to school on each an every tree as I have some 24"+ trees I will be falling. I have been studying some of the harder caut for a while and have a good plan (I hope). Anyway, here in the Ozarks, white oak is king. If you have good veneer white oak, you better harvest it and get it ot the stave mill when the price is up. 

Wish me luck!

:msp_scared:


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## northmanlogging (Oct 19, 2012)

Is it odd that the big ones don't scare me as much and the medium-small ones? The biguns have more diameter which translates to more holding wood and I can fill the back cut with a case of wedges as need be (some day I'll brake down and buy a silvey jack...:msp_wub With the feather weights it can be hard to fit one wedge in there and still have room for the saw let alone if I have to stack wedges. You know your in trouble when the tree is leaning the right way its got one stack of three wedges and only an inch of holding wood and the bastard still won't go over...


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## FSburt (Oct 20, 2012)

Yeah I'm no pro faller either. I like to pretend though! 

But you did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night did'nt u. LOL


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## MMG (Oct 21, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> Is it odd that the big ones don't scare me as much and the medium-small ones? The biguns have more diameter which translates to more holding wood and I can fill the back cut with a case of wedges as need be (some day I'll brake down and buy a silvey jack...:msp_wub With the feather weights it can be hard to fit one wedge in there and still have room for the saw let alone if I have to stack wedges. You know your in trouble when the tree is leaning the right way its got one stack of three wedges and only an inch of holding wood and the bastard still won't go over...



Yeah I know what you mean, but I have some leaners (the wrong way) near some power lines. Like I said, I think I have a good plan but it may require some jacking and wedges on a couple of the trees. The biggest problem is even when the tree is strait, there are some huge limbs on the wrong side of a few of the trees. I'm talikng 10" to 12" limbs at their base of the trunk, those are the ones that kinda freak me out being a weekend warrior. I don't climb but I have thought about giving it a try on some of this high value timer. 

:msp_tongue:


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## northmanlogging (Oct 21, 2012)

there no (well not much) shame in throwing a bull line in a leaner especially when its leaning the wrong way, 100' of 5/8 or 3/4 "bull line isn't real expensive compared to hitting power lines, just tie something hefty to the end of it and huck it over the tallest branch you can make a quick slip knot so the trunk of the tree is choked and tie it off about 90 degrees from where you want it to go tension it up a little and the tree will go more or less where you want it, just try to get the rope as high as you can to give it more leverage, tying of at 90 degrees works better than any fancy siswheel, dunbar, dutchman, soft dutchman, or my all time favorite "The Kalifornia Swing Cut" (don't try this at home or ever I'm not a trained professional) (its fun to watch stupid people werk too...)


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## FSburt (Oct 21, 2012)

"The Kalifornia Swing Cut"

This is a new one to me. Can u edgamakate me.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 21, 2012)

FSburt said:


> "The Kalifornia Swing Cut"
> 
> This is a new one to me. Can u edgamakate me.



Well, this cut was done by a guy that thought dropping half an acre of alder at once was a good idea... anyway I think what he wanted to do was a sizwheel, but maybe he saw it done once in kalifoneyia, and didn't really understand it, so cut your face all crooked making the wide side on the compression side... then make a very crooked back cut say 30 deg to the ground, like your trying to slip it off the stump, If done correctly it should hit what your trying to miss 99% of the time, if all else fails and your still alive it should be funny at least


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## MMG (Jan 2, 2013)

Just had one go the wrong way on me. A dead 18" white oak I wanted for firewood. Hard to judge sometimes, the whole tree seemed to lean up hill except for the top which kinda went the other way. Tried wedging it but it just stood there.  Had to go back in and sure enough, there it went, 180 from where i wanted it to go. No harm except my pride. I just had to buck it up in a brushy area and carry the wood out a little further than I wanted. 

Still learning!

:msp_smile:


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## rwoods (Jan 2, 2013)

MosesR, glad no harm came of it. Keeping your pride in check is half the battle in learning - at least it is for me. Although every now and then it does good to find validation for some of your methods. I ran across this in a post from Mac88 in another forum the other day - http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/research/cen...cations/upload/FallerSafety_web_rev_Feb08.pdf 

Among a lot of good information is the following:

"*Choose a face-cut – All trees over 8 in. diameter are required to be felled using a face-cut*."

Of course with everything there are exceptions, but most exceptions are best left with a pro which I'm not. Ron


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 3, 2013)

A key factor in getting better at falling trees has been cutting tops or wood while climbing. One has less margin of error because you can't run away!:msp_smile:


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## 056 kid (Jan 3, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> A key factor in getting better at falling trees has been cutting tops or wood while climbing. One has less margin of error because you can't run away!:msp_smile:



You don't always get to run cutting either. Even on the east. I had 2 springboards in a cluster of white pines, one of which was leaning over me and dead to boot. I was commuted to standing on that piece of wood while those sticks got casted.


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## MMG (Jan 3, 2013)

rwoods said:


> MosesR, glad no harm came of it. Keeping your pride in check is half the battle in learning - at least it is for me. Although every now and then it does good to find validation for some of your methods. I ran across this in a post from Mac88 in another forum the other day - http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/research/cen...cations/upload/FallerSafety_web_rev_Feb08.pdf
> 
> Among a lot of good information is the following:
> 
> ...



Great article! Some of those stories will scare the hell out of ya though!


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## Gologit (Jan 3, 2013)

MosesR said:


> Great article! Some of those stories will scare the hell out of ya though!



Good.


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## rwoods (Jan 3, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> A key factor in getting better at falling trees has been cutting tops or wood while climbing. One has less margin of error because you can't run away!:msp_smile:





056 kid said:


> You don't always get to run cutting either. Even on the east. I had 2 springboards in a cluster of white pines, one of which was leaning over me and dead to boot. I was commuted to standing on that piece of wood while those sticks got casted.



Climbing and springboards - two of the many reasons I admire you guys but also two of the reasons I don't envy your job. Be careful out there. Ron


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## Virginialogging (Jan 4, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> (its fun to watch stupid people werk too...)



have we met before?


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## northmanlogging (Jan 4, 2013)

I wasn't old enough to be walking last time I was in virginia... but it is possible...


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