# Spur length



## Madman Mark (Dec 10, 2010)

Im buying a spur climbing kit soon to help with doing tree removal work with a friend of mine who is an arboriste. He's been "showing me the ropes" a bit and Im slowly learning. The kit Im going to buy comes with spurs,my choice of tree or pole spurs. My buddy says get the "shorter" pole spurs even though I'll be doing tree work. He says the longer 'tree spurs' are too long for the types of trees we have here in Nova Scotia, most without really thick bark. Should I take his advice ? He seems to know what he is talking about......although he is a little crazy LOL !


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## RacerX (Dec 11, 2010)

IMO it's best to match the spur length to the type of tree. Using longer _tree spurs_ on thin bark trees is unnecessary.


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## squad143 (Dec 11, 2010)

Longer spurs (2 3/4" tree spurs) will work on thick and thin bark, where as short (1 1/2" pole spurs) will only work on thin bark trees (without alot of risk). 

Why limit yourself?

I have both, but usually can't be bothered digging into the bottom of my gear bag to get the pole spurs for the thin barked trees and usually keep my "tree" spurs on.

You can always purchase spurs that have replaceable gaffs ( http://www.kleintools.com/OPEcatalog/PDFs/Pole_Tree_Climbers.pdf ) and buy the different gaff. 

That way you'll have both.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 11, 2010)

I began work for the government owned utility company, and we were all issued both.

There is more to the gaff design than just the length. Pole spurs do not work as well in a tree, regardless of what the tree is. They are more likley to cut out, and are designed specifically for pole use. Anybody who tells you they are better on trees with thin bark than tree sprus frankly has had no experience, and does not know what they are talking about. 

We used to spend 8 to 10 hours a day on spurs.. taking them off an lunch and then back on. 

I have climbed trees with pole spurs and poles with tree spurs.. they will work.. but if you are climbing trees.. get tree gaffs.


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## tree md (Dec 11, 2010)

I have two sets as well, a set of Bashlin's with pole gaffs that I use 99% of the time and a set of Buckingham's with tree gaffs. Buy whichever you will use the most. Word of caution though, when you need tree gaffs you really need them. You will gaff out on thick furrowed bark trees with pole gaffs.


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## tree md (Dec 11, 2010)

I climbed on Klien tree gaffs for the first 10 or 12 years of my climbing career. I prefer pole gaffs these days.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 11, 2010)

tree md said:


> I climbed on Klien tree gaffs for the first 10 or 12 years of my climbing career. I prefer pole gaffs these days.



Any particular reason why? They will not penetrate as far, even in the same wood as tree gaffs, of course you could reshape gaff so they were similar.


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## tree md (Dec 11, 2010)

Number one, I like them because they are short enough that I can walk around on the ground in between trees without dulling them.

99% of the trees I spike are thin barked and I have no problem with the pole gaffs whatsoever. I just find them less cumbersome. 

Like I said, I climbed on the Klien offset tree gaffs forever. I would still be comfortable in them but I feel less encumbered with the shorter gaffs.

Also, I am a pretty good sized guy. I have no problems with gaff penetration at all.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 11, 2010)

Listen to your guy, Pole gaffs is the way to go. And if 57 doesn't think I have enough experience to say so, he is got another think coming.
Jeff


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## mpatch (Dec 11, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> I began work for the government owned utility company, and we were all issued both.
> 
> There is more to the gaff design than just the length. Pole spurs do not work as well in a tree, regardless of what the tree is. They are more likley to cut out, and are designed specifically for pole use. Anybody who tells you they are better on trees with thin bark than tree sprus frankly has had no experience, and does not know what they are talking about.
> 
> ...



I will completely disagree with you. You cant walk around with tree gaffs while on the ground. Tree gaffs put alot more strain on your body. I feel like I am climbing with hi heels on when wearing them (you can't use your toes and heels to help balance on the small stuff which sucks). After 10+ years of spiking trees I can count the times I needed tree gaffs on one hand. The times that I have used them has mainly been on large cottonwoods blocking down the spar. I would climb on pole gaffs then change over to tree gaffs for the thick bark stuff. Unless you spend a lot of time in thick bark trees (no idea where that would be)I woul opt for the pole gaffs. Every gaff manufacturer uses different geometry on the point of the gaffs, from my experience some work better than others in certain trees.


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## RacerX (Dec 11, 2010)

mpatch said:


> You cant walk around with tree gaffs while on the ground. Tree gaffs put alot more strain on your body. I feel like I am climbing with hi heels on when wearing them (you can't use your toes and heels to help balance on the small stuff which sucks). After 10+ years of spiking trees I can count the times I needed tree gaffs on one hand. The times that I have used them has mainly been on large cottonwoods blocking down the spar. I would climb on pole gaffs then change over to tree gaffs for the thick bark stuff. Unless you spend a lot of time in thick bark trees (no idea where that would be)I woul opt for the pole gaffs. Every gaff manufacturer uses different geometry on the point of the gaffs, from my experience some work better than others in certain trees.




My feelings as well. There are certain times when you need tree gaff and the OP said he's climbing thin barks so I agree with you. For me the strain on your body is the main reason that I would opt for pole gaffs if the length of a tree gaff is not needed.


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## ozzy42 (Dec 11, 2010)

Pole gaffs for me


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 11, 2010)

mpatch said:


> I will completely disagree with you. You cant walk around with tree gaffs while on the ground. Tree gaffs put alot more strain on your body. I feel like I am climbing with hi heels on when wearing them (you can't use your toes and heels to help balance on the small stuff which sucks). After 10+ years of spiking trees I can count the times I needed tree gaffs on one hand. The times that I have used them has mainly been on large cottonwoods blocking down the spar. I would climb on pole gaffs then change over to tree gaffs for the thick bark stuff. Unless you spend a lot of time in thick bark trees (no idea where that would be)I woul opt for the pole gaffs. Every gaff manufacturer uses different geometry on the point of the gaffs, from my experience some work better than others in certain trees.



Would be interested in how long your gaffs are on your tree spurs. There are at least 2 sizes of gaffs that most offer for tree spurs. I just checked mine, and they are 2 3/4" (they show as general tree work) - but they also offer 3 1/2" for thick barked trees. Pole gaffs are under or around 2" typically I think.

I have no issues in walking with tree gaffs.. and we had four utility crews working on some of our larger jobs.. and everybody kept the tree gaffs on all day long. Only issues were the occasional rock when walking..


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 11, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Would be interested in how long your gaffs are on your tree spurs. There are at least 2 sizes of gaffs that most offer for tree spurs. I just checked mine, and they are 2 3/4" (they show as general tree work) - but they also offer 3 1/2" for thick barked trees. Pole gaffs are under or around 2" typically I think.
> 
> I have no issues in walking with tree gaffs.. and we had four utility crews working on some of our larger jobs.. and everybody kept the tree gaffs on all day long. Only issues were the occasional rock when walking..



It is quite obvious that you have never been to high up a tree. What do you think about a removal you will piece out over targets? If you can handle what you cut without the aid of a groundie roping, you would get up and out there and keep your groundies running. You seem very inexperienced.
Jeff


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 11, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> It is quite obvious that you have never been to high up a tree. What do you think about a removal you will piece out over targets? If you can handle what you cut without the aid of a groundie roping, you would get up and out there and keep your groundies running. You seem very inexperienced.
> Jeff



Well, depends on experience in what. Been doing this for 35 years. Will admit the first half of that was total line clearance. But 100% of it was on spurs.. we didn't have groundies .. but we didn't give a crap about where we dropped wood either for the most part, nothing below to hurt. As for height certainally been up 30 meters .. and to top of 120 ft poles (looking over top) on spurs. Will admit most of that work was not too technical in nature.

I will admit that in recent years a lot of work was done with bucket.. and more recently I get really don't do a whole lot of climbing.


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## mpatch (Dec 11, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Would be interested in how long your gaffs are on your tree spurs. There are at least 2 sizes of gaffs that most offer for tree spurs. I just checked mine, and they are 2 3/4" (they show as general tree work) - but they also offer 3 1/2" for thick barked trees. Pole gaffs are under or around 2" typically I think.
> 
> I have no issues in walking with tree gaffs.. and we had four utility crews working on some of our larger jobs.. and everybody kept the tree gaffs on all day long. Only issues were the occasional rock when walking..



They are at the shop but I think they are around 3 inches. The gaffs I use almost daily are Bashiln or Klien pole gaffs can't remember. How much time on the tree do you usually spend without touching the ground on spikes? I did line clearance for a while using spikes and I could have used just about any saddle and spikes and been just a productive, run up a tree make a few cuts and come down. Try spending 6+ hours in the same tree cutting and chucking and rigging and see how your knees and lower body feel using tree gaffs.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 11, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Well, depends on experience in what. Been doing this for 35 years. Will admit the first half of that was total line clearance. But 100% of it was on spurs.. we didn't have groundies .. but we didn't give a crap about where we dropped wood either for the most part, nothing below to hurt. As for height certainally been up 30 meters .. and to top of 120 ft poles (looking over top) on spurs. Will admit most of that work was not too technical in nature.
> 
> I will admit that in recent years a lot of work was done with bucket.. and more recently I get really don't do a whole lot of climbing.



Yeah, I figured something like that. So, cool. Just don't chime in in when you don't know. 
Jeff


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## deevo (Dec 11, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> It is quite obvious that you have never been to high up a tree. What do you think about a removal you will piece out over targets? If you can handle what you cut without the aid of a groundie roping, you would get up and out there and keep your groundies running. You seem very inexperienced.
> Jeff



Jeff I have to disagree with you on this one, 57 and I have done a lot of jobs this year together, and some involved some serious rigging....trees on houses, wedged between other trees entangled in hydro lines etc.... he has a lot of experience and a lot of equipment to get the hardest jobs done....safely! I've seen him up in the tree and knows what he is doing! Works hard as well in any weather conditions as we've worked together in some nasty storms we've had up here in the last 6 months! I've posted pics of some of the jobs as well on here. So there you go. Oh yeah I use pole gaffs for poles and tree gaffs for trees!


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 11, 2010)

deevo said:


> Jeff I have to disagree with you on this one, 57 and I have done a lot of jobs this year together, and some involved some serious rigging....trees on houses, wedged between other trees entangled in hydro lines etc.... he has a lot of experience and a lot of equipment to get the hardest jobs done....safely! I've seen him up in the tree and knows what he is doing! Works hard as well in any weather conditions as we've worked together in some nasty storms we've had up here in the last 6 months! I've posted pics of some of the jobs as well on here. So there you go. Oh yeah I use pole gaffs for poles and tree gaffs for trees!



Well, I quess I stand corrected. Sorry, you are the man and if you say another guy is the man, who am I to say you are wrong. It won't happen again.
Jeff


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## deevo (Dec 11, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Well, I quess I stand corrected. Sorry, you are the man and if you say another guy is the man, who am I to say you are wrong. It won't happen again.
> Jeff



Ok, I just didn't want to have to drive all the way to Cali to tell you! lol! But if you can arrange a plane ticket for me I'll go out there! Cheers!


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 11, 2010)

deevo said:


> Ok, I just didn't want to have to drive all the way to Cali to tell you! lol! But if you can arrange a plane ticket for me I'll go out there! Cheers!




Jeff


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## Koa Man (Dec 12, 2010)

I only use pole gaffs and so does everyone else I know in Hawaii. The only time anyone here uses tree gaffs is the rare instance when they have to work on a robusta euc. 

The only ones I ever saw use tree gaffs on palms were guys from the mainland US and they quickly changed to pole gaffs as soon as they could.

The choice really depends on the kind of tree you work on.


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## 2dogs (Dec 20, 2010)

I do not climb alot but I have been climbing about 30 years. Take what you will. I only have (Buckingham fixed gaff) tree spurs but I have modified the gaffs slightly by bending the points out. I climb mostly redwood and Douglass fir with some cedar and white fir and a few pines. By bending the points out about 15 or so degrees I can "walk" up easier but coming down is MUCH easier. I don't have to pull the gaff out of the bark with near as much force as before and this makes things easier on my knees. 

Several climbers who are much better than I am have modded their Geckos this way. (Geckos are the bees knees btw). Climb Rite spurs are very popular here too.


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## Grace Tree (Dec 20, 2010)

After you do the mod do you have to heat treat the gaffs?
Phil


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## tree md (Dec 20, 2010)

You can buy gaffs with pretty much the same angle I believe 2dogs is speaking of. They work great in softwoods. We used to call them Pine spikes in my circle.


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## 2dogs (Dec 20, 2010)

tree md said:


> You can buy gaffs with pretty much the same angle I believe 2dogs is speaking of. They work great in softwoods. We used to call them Pine spikes in my circle.



I have heard them called European gaffs. 

No I have not heat treated them after, there seems to be no difference in the metal. I forgot to mention I also file a tringular slot into the bottom of the gaff for a half inch. A very experienced climber said he does so I do too.


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## Scrat (Dec 20, 2010)

2dogs said:


> I do not climb alot but I have been climbing about 30 years. Take what you will. I only have (Buckingham fixed gaff) tree spurs but I have modified the gaffs slightly by bending the points out. I climb mostly redwood and Douglass fir with some cedar and white fir and a few pines. By bending the points out about 15 or so degrees I can "walk" up easier but coming down is MUCH easier. I don't have to pull the gaff out of the bark with near as much force as before and this makes things easier on my knees.
> 
> Several climbers who are much better than I am have modded their Geckos this way. (Geckos are the bees knees btw). Climb Rite spurs are very popular here too.



sorry for my ignorance but what are "bees knees btw"?


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## 2dogs (Dec 20, 2010)

Scrat said:


> sorry for my ignorance but what are "bees knees btw"?



It means really great. At least in Collyfornia.


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## Thillmaine1 (Dec 20, 2010)

*Pole*

I run pole spurs. Been doing it for 7-8 years> I tried tree gaffs for a day...neve rlooked back. Locust, big pines, and cottonwoods are all a little tricky to mauever, but advatage outweighs disadvantege. At least in the northeast anyway, we have lot of hardwoods, long hooks just hurt your ankles.I actually have the old pair of gaffs for sale if anyone wants them, for kliens. Used twice. Make an offer.


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## Scrat (Dec 21, 2010)

2dogs said:


> It means really great. At least in Collyfornia.



Hey two dogs thanks for the reply, Got my CF Gecko's early this year and they are nothin' short of awesome! And tree gaffs


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## D_Sully (Dec 21, 2010)

I would like to throw my couple pennies in on this one. Ive noticed that new guys with pole spike do a lot more damage on trees than with tree spikes. If you decide to go with tree spikes, go with the 2.5" like the older buckinghams. The 2.75" gaffs are easier to dull, dont seem like much but the tips of my bashlins touch the ground and my old buckinghams dont. Best to get in the habit of carrying to tree if your not used to them. Hope this helps ya. Good luck with climbing, theres no turning back now. Ha ha ha ha ha


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## tree md (Dec 21, 2010)

D_Sully said:


> I would like to throw my couple pennies in on this one. Ive noticed that new guys with pole spike do a lot more damage on trees than with tree spikes. If you decide to go with tree spikes, go with the 2.5" like the older buckinghams. The 2.75" gaffs are easier to dull, dont seem like much but the tips of my bashlins touch the ground and my old buckinghams dont. Best to get in the habit of carrying to tree if your not used to them. Hope this helps ya. Good luck with climbing, theres no turning back now. Ha ha ha ha ha



??? Scratches head... Dude, I only wear spikes if I'm dropping the pole and I'm pretty sure most around here are doing the same... Why worry about damaging the tree If you are removing it??? It is modern practice to climb spikeless on a rope if you are leaving anything behind...


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## D_Sully (Dec 21, 2010)

It is around here too, but the guys looking into a spur climbing kit so i just threw out my opinion on spikes. Besides that if hes stickin with it, chances are hes gonna be doin some right-of-way work, where its get in get out. And i know its not right but the general foremans dont normally supply you with the gear to use rope ascension, its cheap, its saddle and spikes


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## Damon (Dec 22, 2010)

I learned to climb on bashlin pole spikes this fall i bought a pair of bashlin tree spikes because i was curious about the difference and i have used them once, they were uncomfortable and overly cumbersome, i can see if you were climbing stuff that had been significantly compromised it might be nice to have them but when you get to the very top of a tree and you cant take a huge top for whatever reason, pole spikes will get you higher because on really small diameter stuff the closer you can get your feet to the leader the better off your gonna be


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## FanOFatherNash (Dec 24, 2010)

Ninja Climbing spikes???


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## D_Sully (Dec 25, 2010)

Those would be perfect for my daughters halloween outfit:hmm3grin2orange:


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2011)

deevo said:


> Jeff I have to disagree with you on this one, 57 and I have done a lot of jobs this year together, and some involved some serious rigging....trees on houses, wedged between other trees entangled in hydro lines etc.... he has a lot of experience and a lot of equipment to get the hardest jobs done....safely! I've seen him up in the tree and knows what he is doing! Works hard as well in any weather conditions as we've worked together in some nasty storms we've had up here in the last 6 months! I've posted pics of some of the jobs as well on here. So there you go. Oh yeah I use pole gaffs for poles and tree gaffs for trees!



Just re-read this. You should too!. I said cutting what you can handle without the need of a groundie for rigging. Maybe you were drunk when you responded!
Jeff :msp_smile:


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## freeweight (Feb 26, 2011)

i didnt know klein made 2 kinds of pole gaffs ,the 1-1/2 and the 1-9/16 ,how much f a difference is the angle ?between them ...any pics of each ?


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 26, 2011)

freeweight said:


> i didnt know klein made 2 kinds of pole gaff


 
Could be that you don't know alot of stuff. Spur lenght is specific.
Jeff :msp_bored:


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## treemandan (Feb 26, 2011)

tree md said:


> ??? Scratches head... Dude, I only wear spikes if I'm dropping the pole and I'm pretty sure most around here are doing the same... Why worry about damaging the tree If you are removing it??? It is modern practice to climb spikeless on a rope if you are leaving anything behind...


 
Don't be so sure, there are a lot of guys still spiking trims. Amazing truth, I know. With me its not some much them hurting the tree its more like they can't do it any other way. Dey's dumb and I don't like dummies.


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## Goober (Feb 26, 2011)

Don't listen to the clown who doesn't know the right way to sharpen gaffs.
Quote the fool from the land of fruits and nuts, " *Only file the outside and not underneath the gaff- ONLY THE OUTSIDE! Jeff"*
Posted on another forum over a year ago!!!!!!!
Poor advice from someone with all that suppossed experience.
What a NOOB, Jeffy.


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## tomtrees58 (Feb 26, 2011)

i used 3 sets pole 50% stringers brooks 2" tree gaffs and 3" some times but they kill me


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## beav700 (Feb 26, 2011)

Pole spurs is the only way to go unless you're living in NorthWest. I bought my fist spurs on Ebay with picture showing long tree gaffs. Pole gaffs arrived. I used them for a while and then thinking I was missing something, I bought actual long tree gaffs. That was waste of money. The comfort is horrible. Same brand (buckingham), same pads, world of difference. Because the tree gaffs are longer and stick out further away from you leg, it puts at least double the pressure on the pad and forces your legs outwards. When you get off the tree, you walk like a cowboy. I can walk with my pole gaffs on the ground and I don't have to worry so much about gaffing my self. Sure, every once in the while my gaff will come out on the way down from the tree, but to me, the comfort is worth few slips.


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## tree MDS (Feb 27, 2011)

Goober said:


> Don't listen to the clown who doesn't know the right way to sharpen gaffs.
> Quote the fool from the land of fruits and nuts, " *Only file the outside and not underneath the gaff- ONLY THE OUTSIDE! Jeff"*
> Posted on another forum over a year ago!!!!!!!
> Poor advice from someone with all that suppossed experience.
> What a NOOB, Jeffy.



Hey Jeff, looks like you made an actual real Goober friend to call Goober now! lol.

What's up with the spike sharpening deal, any truth to this? I always learned to sharpen only the underside.. maybe just hit the sides ever so lightly, to take off any burrs and dress, or whatever..


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## TreeClimber57 (Feb 27, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> I always learned to sharpen only the underside.. maybe just hit the sides ever so lightly, to take off any burrs and dress, or whatever..


 
That IS the right way to do it. And you should finish with a stone, in fact if you keep on top of your gaff sharpening you likely will ONLY ever need a stone. 90% of my sharpening for almost 40 years has been with a stone.


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## tree MDS (Feb 27, 2011)

TreeClimber57 said:


> That IS the right way to do it. And you should finish with a stone, in fact if you keep on top of your gaff sharpening you likely will ONLY ever need a stone. 90% of my sharpening for almost 40 years has been with a stone.



I use a file.. but I can see where that removes quite a bit of metal, even if you're careful. By stone, you mean like a knife sharpening stone, I assume? Interesting.


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## killahnewton (Feb 27, 2011)

Pole-piks for me and I prefer a little dull. I think the topic is a little off track here. Comfort is critical. I once believed an uncomfortable leg iron was incentive to get the job done quicker. Long duration climbs in hardwood with "gaffs" is uncomfortable. Lately I have limited my spike use in take-downs. Good climbs are comfy climbs. Go Short! Keep some spare 2 3/4s in the tool box for the punk and cork or to impress the homeowner with your massive talons.:hmm3grin2orange:


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