# What part of the saw actually dies?



## MervMaster (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm going to do some milling with a 55 cc saw. 

Not because I think it's a particularly good idea, but because I'm obsessed with the idea of milling and my Alaskan comes in on Monday. 

I know it wears saws out prematurely, but what part of the saw actually wears out? The piston, rings, carb, cylinder? 
I can't imagine much else Being a problem. 

Maybe I'm just too I'll informed to know the answer. 


Thanks for your time. 


I'm never in a hurry, I'm just moving fast.


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## sachsmo (Dec 3, 2011)

In the case of a 55cc saw, I would look real close at the clutch.

Milling is hard on even the largest saws ever made.

You can mill with a mini Mac if you have patience, and a sharp chain!


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## brokenbudget (Dec 3, 2011)

milling with a 55cc saw? good luck. anything wider than 14-16"......
there goes the clutch.
there goes the piston.
there goes the crank bearings.
the little saws don't like being ridden like that. best find a bigger saw to do the same job. saving you money in the long run.:msp_smile:


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## MervMaster (Dec 3, 2011)

But if clutch piston and bearings are all that's gonna go, whats the sum total of those parts? I'm thinking less than 100 bucks. 
You can pick up a whole new cylinder and piston kit for 60-75, a big bore kit for an 029 is like 100. and clutches come cheap. 

My point is that I can do the mechanical work myself. so why spend 600 bucks I don't have on an 076 that might already be beaten into the ground?

Unless someone can show me where to get an 80+ cc saw that runs for 300 bucks, I might as well just run the ones I have and replace parts as needed. 

This is my thinking. I hope someone will correct me, because I really would like a bigger saw anyways. 


I'm never in a hurry, I'm just moving fast.


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## brokenbudget (Dec 3, 2011)

MervMaster said:


> But if clutch piston and bearings are all that's gonna go, whats the sum total of those parts? I'm thinking less than 100 bucks.
> .



you need more education if you think thats all.
better off just getting the bigger saw.
how many times would you be willing to tear the chainsaw apart? not saying the piston is going to go out every time you fire the saw up, nor am i saying the clutch is going to fry once you hit the wood. you also have to think how hard it's going to be on YOU using that little saw. your thinking on this is just plain wrong. trying to make excuses to use a smaller saw for milling is a cop out. YOU NEED A BIGGER SAW period. no reason to overthink. no reason to think about it at all. you need a bigger saw if you going to do any type of milling.
if it were a thing you were going to do every once in a long while for small pieces (see post above) then i might be ok for short runs. anything more than that, you need a bigger saw.
not trying to sound like an a$$, just telling you from experience, you need a bigger saw to mill with properly. you don't know how much power it takes to mill. 50cc ain't near enough.


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## MervMaster (Dec 3, 2011)

Excellent, that's what I needed to hear. Having gotten that out of the way, what saw do you use?


I'm never in a hurry, I'm just moving fast.


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## brokenbudget (Dec 3, 2011)

MervMaster said:


> Excellent, that's what I needed to hear. Having gotten that out of the way, what saw do you use?
> 
> 
> I'm never in a hurry, I'm just moving fast.



my smallest saw is a 6400 dolmar. mostly just for the small stuff. i use a solo 694 and a husky 2101 for the big and bigger stuff.


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## deerlakejens (Dec 3, 2011)

Husky 2100's are rugged and run forever but can routinely be picked up for well under $300. Is this just because of their weight? I love mine for pulling a 36" bar in fir, can't figure out why they don't hold a higher value, except of course for age.


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## bobt (Dec 3, 2011)

Tell you what to do.

You can experiment a little with your 55cc saw by simply trying to rip a log freehand.

Just go all the way down the middle of,,,say a 10' log.

I am almost sure that you will see how slow and difficult a task this is.

Now consider doing this over and over as if you were cutting this log up into lumber.

I bet you will see that a larger displacement saw is in order.

Bob


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## brokenbudget (Dec 3, 2011)

deerlakejens said:


> Husky 2100's are rugged and run forever but can routinely be picked up for well under $300. Is this just because of their weight? I love mine for pulling a 36" bar in fir, can't figure out why they don't hold a higher value, except of course for age.



they still hold a good price for their age.:msp_smile: still a very viable saw to work with considering i haven't seen a more 'modern' saw out run one. they are very torqy and have good chain speed. the only downfall i can see is parts availablity. they are getting scarce.
far more power than any 066 or 660 i've owned. also way tougher.:msp_smile:


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## betterbuilt (Dec 3, 2011)

Well I missed a good one. As said before Bigger is better. 

What size logs do you have? What size mill did you order? 

You can get a saw for $200. Here's proof.


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## sachsmo (Dec 3, 2011)

The one on the right $50 bucks (it's a long story)
And no, that is not the bar we use for milling.


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## hamish (Dec 3, 2011)

*Tossing in my wrench*

Yes plain and simple bigger is better and more efficent for milling. That being said, in the early 90's I milled enough softwood (pine and cedar) to build 2 small sheds, 10x12 and 14x14. The only material that wasn't milled was the tin on of the roof and all the nails holding it together, and was milled with a Husky 257, with an 18" bar and .325 chain. It did the job I asked of it and I had a blast doing it.

Take your time, de-tune your saw, be as mechanically sympathetic as you can and go at it.

I have a BSM now, and even though had sold my Alaskan along time ago I have gotten another one, so I can get the logs I cant move smaller so I can get then to my mill, and for making timbers places I would never get a mill to or get the logs out with out air support!

Alot of it has to do with what you are milling, how you are milling it, and when you are milling it.


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## gemniii (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't know what part dies first.

I started milling w/ a 62CC saw and a 28" bar. I could easily mill 14" wide red maple 8' long. Larger, like 18" was possible, but REAL slow.

Make sure you mod the muffler if it will help, run it rich, make sure the chain is well oiled, stop to sharpen it often (this gives it a rest), and don't try extremely long cuts.

If you can stick to softwood you'll do fine. Oak that's dried for two years could be a different story.

Then do what I did and get a pair of modded 660's


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## 820wards (Dec 3, 2011)

MervMaster,


YOU NEED A BIGGER SAW period. Your gonna burn that 55cc motor up, then you will have no saw at all.

jerry-


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## MervMaster (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes I agree. I'll sell some stuff I guess. Thank you everyone for your honesty. 

If you wouldn't mind, I can't seem to find anything like a jonsered model list. Is there a high cc jonsered good for the job? Just weighing my options, I'll probably go for an 066 or 075 or the like.


I'm never in a hurry, I'm just moving fast.


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## BobL (Dec 4, 2011)

Given that there are long term millers on this site that have milled lots of small stuff with 50 cc saws I disagree that one absolutely needs a bigger saw to undertake some CS milling. The primary reason one needs a bigger saw is to mill bigger logs, but if the logs are small and short a small saw can cope provided it is treated right. Just don't expect it to be fast, . . . . well, realistically . . . . no CS milling is what I would call fast.


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## MervMaster (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks bob. That's what I figured, and it's not as if I wasn't gonna try it anyway. 

Appreciate the help. 


I'm never in a hurry, I'm just moving fast.


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## DiscoInferno (Dec 5, 2011)

I've milled 22" diameter mulberry and walnut with a 455 Rancher. Slow, but not completely unreasonable. Don't know how much of that the saw could take, though. I milled similar-sized maple and hemlock with a Husky 359, the maple was very slow but the hemlock wasn't too bad. Next I moved up to a Makita 6401 ($225 used from Home Depot Rental Dept.) to mill some tulip poplar (again 22" diameter, I never seem to come across anything smaller). Very reasonable speed, it's definitely a step up. Next step is to upgrade the Makita with Baileys' $99 BB kit (84cc). 

Bottom line - if you're careful (let the saw idle a lot, run a little rich, run 40:1 or less, etc.), you'll want to get bigger saw just for the increased speed before you actually break your smaller saw.


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## maccall (Dec 7, 2011)

MervMaster said:


> If you wouldn't mind, I can't seem to find anything like a jonsered model list. Is there a high cc jonsered good for the job?



Jonsered 2186 is the same as Husqvarna 385 at around 85cc, and Jonsered 2188 is the same as Husqvarna 390 at around 90cc. There's probably some older models that might fit the bill too, but I don't know anything about the older models...


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## gemniii (Dec 7, 2011)

BobL said:


> The primary reason one needs a bigger saw is to mill bigger logs,



and



DiscoInferno said:


> you'll want to get bigger saw just for the increased speed



I also think that a big reason for getting a bigger saw is to HAVE a bigger saw, just for the sound 

Last week I was clearing out vines etc. around my workshops, the biggest tree I had to cut was only about 8" DBH. I did 95% of it w/ my Stihl 021, but just HAD to fire up a 660 to cut the tree into firewood. Sure sounded GOOD. 

I like to "tune" my 660's and let them both idle a bit, while I stand between them.


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## BobL (Dec 7, 2011)

gemniii said:


> and
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that a big reason for getting a bigger saw is to HAVE a bigger saw, just for the sound



Yeah - sorry I forgot about that!


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## WadePatton (Dec 8, 2011)

gemniii said:


> and...
> 
> I like to "tune" my 660's and let them both idle a bit, while I stand between them.



i saw a vid a few years back of 8 or 9 Sachs Dolmar 166's--all idling. it's probably still floating around. 



yeah, i do it too...i've done with multiple "5900cc" Cummins as well. joyous noises


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## mitch95100 (Dec 8, 2011)

opcorn:


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## hunt22j (Jan 19, 2012)

MervMaster said:


> But if clutch piston and bearings are all that's gonna go, whats the sum total of those parts? I'm thinking less than 100 bucks.
> You can pick up a whole new cylinder and piston kit for 60-75, a big bore kit for an 029 is like 100. and clutches come cheap.
> 
> My point is that I can do the mechanical work myself. so why spend 600 bucks I don't have on an 076 that might already be beaten into the ground?
> ...




I believe you can find a nice size saw if your willing to look around and wait for a deal. I'd call all the local small engine shops to see if any trade-ins have been brought in. I say this because I was in the same boat last year debating on what to do about a saw for a mill. I have a smaller stihl that I tried first and it worked well enough for me to catch the bug. So on a whim I stopped by a local shop just to see what they had available, if anything. To my suprise the owner pulled out two 60-65 cc homelites (I believe) and a 281xp Husky that the mechanic had rebuilt the motor on. Long story short, I came home with the Husky for 375$ and its still running well today.


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## chaikwa (Jan 19, 2012)

I dunno what you guys know that I don't know, but what I DO know is that I started milling with a chainsaw mill powered with a 3120 Husky. And it wasn't enough saw for what I was trying to do! I can't even imagine trying it with something smaller.

Finally got sick of sharpening chains, pumping oilers, refueling every other pass, generally beating myself to death with that CSM and doing everything except sawing lumber and built a bandsaw.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 19, 2012)

chaikwa said:


> I dunno what you guys know that I don't know, but what I DO know is that I started milling with a chainsaw mill powered with a 3120 Husky. And it wasn't enough saw for what I was trying to do! I can't even imagine trying it with something smaller.
> 
> Finally got sick of sharpening chains, pumping oilers, refueling every other pass, generally beating myself to death with that CSM and doing everything except sawing lumber and built a bandsaw.




Some people just get it quicker than others.


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## BobL (Jan 20, 2012)

chaikwa said:


> I dunno what you guys know that I don't know, but what I DO know is that I started milling with a chainsaw mill powered with a 3120 Husky. And it wasn't enough saw for what I was trying to do! I can't even imagine trying it with something smaller.
> 
> Finally got sick of sharpening chains, pumping oilers, refueling every other pass, generally beating myself to death with that CSM and doing everything except sawing lumber and built a bandsaw.



Anyone beating themselves to death with a CSM means they just haven't got it set up right.






If you want bulk lumber then a bandsaw is a smart move, but if one already has a CS, a CSM is still the quickest way to access some logs with the minimum $.


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## gemniii (Jan 20, 2012)

Remember the C in CSM can stand for Carry (or Cheap). Look at some of mtngun's extensive work. Trucking either the logs or a BSM doesn't work for all applications. And the additional $200 for the equipment off the shelf is far less than any off the shelf BSM.

Sure you may write "I built my BSM from spare stuff I had laying around with my own time and tools", but not everyone happens to have "spare stuff laying around" and the "time and tools".


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## chaikwa (Jan 20, 2012)

BobL said:


> Anyone beating themselves to death with a CSM means they just haven't got it set up right.


With all due respect, I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong. I had a CSM and it was "set up right". 

View attachment 218577
View attachment 218578


It was loud, hot, and dirty. Exhaust from the saw combined with the heat, made the chips that were randomly flying everywhere, stick to you because you are sweating like a pig. They have their place but not because they're easy to operate or because they're quick. 

I cut a LOT of lumber with that thing and built a place in Maine with it.

View attachment 218576


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## sixteenacrewood (Jan 20, 2012)

BobL, I love that photo!
I have been reading up on csm milling here for a year or so. and yes a big saw is preferable, but rather than wait until I could afford it, I started with a husky 455 that I already owned and went at it free hand, no mill. I keep my saw clean and tuned, my chain very sharp, and my feed speed resonable. After two + years the only thing I've broken was a few clutch springs and clogged bar oiler. Both are easy and cheap to fix. I'm sure one day the little husky will give out but so far she has been a money maker. and I heat with wood, all from the 455.(I live in the woods)

That said...I just bought a used dolmer 9010, and have an alaskan mill kit on the way, should be here tue or wed, and yes I am VERY PUMPED! not sure if I'll ever freehand again...but who knows.

Gemnii is right, once you get into it there is no turning back.


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## lone wolf (Jan 20, 2012)

bobt said:


> Tell you what to do.
> 
> You can experiment a little with your 55cc saw by simply trying to rip a log freehand.
> 
> ...



What he said and make it oak.


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## sixteenacrewood (Jan 20, 2012)

Great reply trad tool. I've never blown up a saw so this was very informative.

but I do have a dumb question.

what do you mean "run a tad rich" and how do I start doing it? is this a carb adjustment?

Is this something I should do on my dolmer 9010 and my husky 455?

Thanks


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## VA-Sawyer (Jan 20, 2012)

Piston ring made of Aluminum ? I'd like to see one! I call BS on your post!
Rick


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## BobL (Jan 20, 2012)

Heres what happened to the first 50 cc (a circa early 1970s Mac 10-10) I put on a CSM.






It was my BIL's (not the same BIL as the BIL Mill but another - I have 7 BILS:eek2 saw that both he and I used mainly to cut out stumps!

Before using it I did nothing to it by way of checking or tuning etc, just put it on the mill and several logs later it just dropped the little end.

I don't believe this was cause by the fact that it was on a CSM, I'd say the same thing would have happened on the next stump.

Since then I have milled up about 25 small logs using my gardening/pruning saw, a plastic bodied Homelite 340 - a 50 cc saw with a 20" bar - no problems.


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## hamish (Jan 20, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Piston ring made of Aluminum ? I'd like to see one! I call BS on your post!
> Rick




Most are either cast, aluminum of an aluminum alloy, so yes aluminum piston rings do exist.


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## BobL (Jan 20, 2012)

TraditionalTool said:


> . . . . Another thing you can do is mix your fuel with more oil, I like to shoot for 50:1 rather than 40:1, as many on AS do,



Huh?

50:1 is 1 part oil to 50 parts gas, or 1/51th oil and 50/51ths gas, or 2% oil
40:1 is 1 part in 41 oil or 2.4% oil

So how is 50:1 more oil?


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## hamish (Jan 20, 2012)

I think what TraditionalTool was getting at is......you have two options, either adjusting your carburator (aka fuel-oil/air mixture) or adding additional oil to your fuel and leaving the carburator settings as is.

\every body has there own way of doing things, but I do agree with the statement of 50:1 and make a carb adjustment ( opening the needles to introduce more of a charge).

Its a touchy subject on here when one starts talking rich and lean and gas and oil etc.....
Till such time as all can agree on common terms and definitions etc.....its a battle.


Just adding more oil to the fuel-oil mix and not adjusting the carburator to compensate for this is not a good idea, and remeber gasoline/fuel/go-gas/petrol what ever you want to call it has cooling abilities of its own. Think of how a two stoke works and where the charge to the combustion chamber comes from...................a two stroke run on straight gas will take a beating before ever failing without a load on it, heat is the major cause of failure.


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## sachsmo (Jan 21, 2012)

hamish said:


> Most are either cast, aluminum of an aluminum alloy, so yes aluminum piston rings do exist.



C'mon bro,

Pistons aluminum? indeed.

Rings aluminum? hardly.

All the ones I have ran across in the last 40+ years are Cast Iron, period!

And DO run a higher ratio of oil, (we use 30:1) and run the highest octane fuel we can find.


And if Y'all believe you can just sit back in the chair like Bob does in that pic. And procede to mill yourself a home.

GOOD LUCK.


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## sixteenacrewood (Jan 21, 2012)

> And if Y'all believe you can just sit back in the chair like Bob does in that pic. And procede to mill yourself a home.
> 
> GOOD LUCK.



Bob? 
Do you set it on a slope, lock the trottle and sit back? how long, time wise does a cut like the photo, take?


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## BobL (Jan 21, 2012)

sixteenacrewood said:


> Bob?
> Do you set it on a slope, lock the trottle and sit back?


That's the basic idea.
In practice it's only possible to do maybe only 1 in 5 cuts like that all the way through the log because it relies on a bunch of things all lining up.
Chain has to be as sharp as possible
It works best on softer logs (don't get many of those) with smooth or no bark and preferably no branch unions or other stuff to impede the progress of the CSM.
If the log is too long and you want longer lumber then it's not always possible to put enough of a slope onto the log
Wheels on the inboard side of the mill help.
I also use log rails for most cuts and my CSM milling rails have HDPE skids on them. 
A heavier CSM helps keep the CSM moving forward - some people add weights to their mill specifically for this.



> how long, time wise does a cut like the photo, take?


That cut took about 30% longer than usual but hey I'm doing this for fun and so for me cutting time is a small fraction of milling time and while its hand-off cutting (albeit slowly) I can do other stuff like add wedges and move lumber.
When everything is lined up I can get to within about 10% of "hands on" cutting time.
I prefer to be up close and personal with the CSM so I usually only do this when I want to add wedges or get a drink etc

To optimize "hands off" cutting speed either the slope or weight has to be adjusted for every width of cut and because cutting width changes often when slabbing a trunk it's a bit of PITA to optimize cutting speed for every cut.
It worth optimizing when turning a cant into boards. 
Too much slope/weight and the saw will bog and that's no good either.

An alternative to this is a winch but that's not really "hands-free"


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## sixteenacrewood (Jan 21, 2012)

Great insite Bob, very much appreciated. I like the idea of using the rails even after the first cut, seems like it would have less friction that the rails riding on the flat wood surface.


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