# Footlocker/ Rock Exotica Dualascender?0



## TreeJunkie (May 30, 2004)

Has anyone tried out the Footlocker Ascender? I'm thinking of buying one. I can't remember if it is made by petzl or by Don Blair over at Sierra Moreno? Any suggestions on places to order this product, other than sherrill. I've looked at there website, and they now call it the Rock Exotica, in the catalog it used to be call the footlocker, are these two different products> I'll try to post pics of each...ANy help out there?
Sherrill post a pic of each , 1st the green one here.


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## TreeJunkie (May 30, 2004)

Here's the second pic sherrill posts.


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

I think I've given the review on the footlocker like three times already, but I guess I'll make it four. 

PROS: slides up REAL smooth; can get closer than the 5:1 ratio that you're limited to with a prusik

CONS: is a pain to take on and off the rope; costs way too freakin much

CONCLUSION: I stuck with a prusik


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## Tom Dunlap (May 31, 2004)

It's made by Petzl now.

Denny Moorhouse gave me a prototype of a double cammer. In the ISC version both cams are connected which makes it a little safer and easier to put on the doubled ropes. Too bad it is a prototype. If I can connect with Denny I'll see what his intentions are for production.

Tom


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## seanlarkin (May 31, 2004)

The one we are selling is the Roc Exotica version. The green one is the Petzl one. It looks like I updated the big picture, but missed the thumbail (little one). I apologize for the confusion.

-Sean


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## TreeJunkie (May 31, 2004)

Thanks guys for the info.. Do any of you have one? I know they're expensive, but hey oh well, i'm just wondering how big of a pain in the arse they are to apply to the rope, which would take longer, to apply the footlocker or to tie a prusik, TDS.??? I'm thinking of using this in my aerial rescue. working off of the footlocker, as i would have worked off of the prusik.


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## SteveBullman (May 31, 2004)

seems to me so long as you're using rope no larger than 11mm, fly for instance, then this device is no different to the petzl shunt, and a shunts a fraction of the cost and you can put it on and off in seconds.
i've got a shunt and used it for so many different applications, even Ddrt


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stephenbullman _
> *seems to me so long as you're using rope no larger than 11mm, fly for instance, then this device is no different to the petzl shunt, and a shunts a fraction of the cost and you can put it on and off in seconds.
> i've got a shunt and used it for so many different applications, even Ddrt *



The Shunt is what I use for footlocking. On the rare occasion when I need to double crotch I use it as the second climbing hitch. Beats carrying a tress cord on my saddle and tying a VT. Or using a closed system and tying a Blakes.


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

The shunt looks pretty useful. Too bad it won't accomodate 1/2" line. 

Tim, do you use the Fly, and if so what size tress cord do you use with it?


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## TreeJunkie (May 31, 2004)

Tim, are you using the shunt w/ 1/2''?? The shunt is only designed for up to 11mm, as someone else said, here the problem w/ the fly, it may be listed as 11 mm, however when i compare it's diameter to my 11mm km111, it's drastically larger. i'd say fly is closer to 12mm, There are differences between the shunt and the footlocker though, as the footlocker has seperate cams, it allows you to body thrust as well as using it to footlock. 

I just heard that mechanical ascenders are not allowed to be used in the aerial rescue at the TCC, or at least it wasn't allowed two years ago in the MWTCC, This seems screwy as i heard Dan Kraus used a Mar Bar upper in his aerial rescue this year. i'm trying to come up w/ my plan, but small inconsistencies w/ what is allowed from chapter to chapter are really throwing my journey off coarse. ARGGHHHH!


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rumination _
> *The shunt looks pretty useful. Too bad it won't accomodate 1/2" line.
> 
> Tim, do you use the Fly, and if so what size tress cord do you use with it? *



I had been using a 3/8" line to enter a tree but when I changed over to The Fly I just began using the tail of it to enter. That way my VT (5/16” tress cord) is ready to go when I get there. The Shunt will act like a climbing hitch/slack tender on 1/2” line. Maybe not like a VT but well enough for a fast double crotch.


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Tim, are you using the shunt w/ 1/2''?? The shunt is only designed for up to 11mm, as someone else said, here the problem w/ the fly, it may be listed as 11 mm, however when i compare it's diameter to my 11mm km111, it's drastically larger. i'd say fly is closer to 12mm, There are differences between the shunt and the footlocker though, as the footlocker has seperate cams, it allows you to body thrust as well as using it to footlock.
> 
> *



The Shunt works just fine with The Fly. Why would you want to body thrust on a doubled entry line?


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## TreeJunkie (May 31, 2004)

Tim, i'm not saying that i would, this is just one way it was demonstated at TCI, i personally wouldn't


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## TreeJunkie (May 31, 2004)

Is the shunt's instillation onto the line just the same as a microscender? i'm worried about ease of install, as i heard this is a problem w/ the footlocker


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

It looks like the shunt can be easily installed midline. Check out the PDF on this page.

http://www.petzl.com/petzl/Produit?Produit=116&Conseil=&Activite=&Famille=&SousFamille=&News=


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

TJ, like stephenbullman wrote “…you can put it on and off in seconds”.


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## TreeJunkie (May 31, 2004)

Thanks for the link, that looks pretty simple, and nothing to lose, like the microscender.


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

Tim, if you wouldn't mind fielding one more question about the shunt. It sounds like you're using it a little bit out of the parameters endorsed by Petzl, which is OK by me. Do you think the shunt would work for footlocking a doubled half inch line, or is that really pushing the limit too much?

Thanks.


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

Rocky,

Did you look at the technical information provided on the petzl link I posted? The shunt DOES accomodate two ropes.

"Technical specifications : 

For use on single rope (10 to 11 mm) or double (8 to 11 mm). 
188 g"

Take a look at the PDF on that page for more detailed info on how to use the device.


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

The thing I have been wondering is because the Shunt functions so well on 3/8” and 7/16” line why has someone not produced one the works with 1/2"?


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

I was just thinking I might email Petzl and ask them that!


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

Here is a picture of the Shunt used with a doubled Fly line.


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## TreeJunkie (May 31, 2004)

Does the shunt slide smoothly as the footlocker does? It would seem that as you use the larger ropes that it can accomodate, that you would begin to cause internal friction which might not alllow it to move effortlessly, thus you might as well be using a prusik


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

I sent an email through the Petzl website. I'll let you guys know if I get any response.


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Does the shunt slide smoothly as the footlocker does? It would seem that as you use the larger ropes that it can accomodate, that you would begin to cause internal friction which might not alllow it to move effortlessly, thus you might as well be using a prusik *



I doubt the Shunt works as smooth as the Footlocker even on 3/8” line. I have never used a footlocker but if the Microcender used as a lanyard adjuster is an indicator, the footlocker should be effortless. I bought a Shunt to footlock with because I didn’t like the hassle of installing the Microcender on a single entry line.


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## Tom Dunlap (May 31, 2004)

Guys! When are arbos going to start to believe the manufacturing engineers when they have a rope size for the gear? There are good reasons for setting those sizes.

Using tools for techniques that the engineers didn't count on can lead to problems too. Using a Shunt as a lanyard adjuster falls into this category. There are other much better tools, rope and mechanical, that fit the bill.

Tom


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Tom Dunlap _
> *Guys! When are arbos going to start to believe the manufacturing engineers when they have a rope size for the gear? There are good reasons for setting those sizes.
> 
> Using tools for techniques that the engineers didn't count on can lead to problems too. Using a Shunt as a lanyard adjuster falls into this category. There are other much better tools, rope and mechanical, that fit the bill.
> ...



The Shunt WAS designed to be used in the footlock. Why not build one that works on 1/2"?


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## Tom Dunlap (May 31, 2004)

Tim.

Not directed at you 

Arbos are just about the only ones in the vertical rope world who use half inch/13+mm rope. It wouldn't make sense to engineer a tool that would only sell an handful.

I'll try to post pics of the ISC device.

Tom


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

Thanks Tom. Point taken. I forgot about the money. But if they would have done a little more research before deciding to put the item into production, they could have designed the original to accommodate lines up to 1/2". The same product would then be purchased by more people thus making them more money.


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## Tom Dunlap (May 31, 2004)

For some reason AS isn't liking me today. I got locked out this morning. Now I can't post pics. Did I say something wrong? 

The Shunt has been out for years. It's only been lately that arbos have discovered it's uses.

Tom


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## Tom Dunlap (May 31, 2004)

This might be a pretty large image. In the interest of getting the pic up, I just took them off my camera.

The Shunt has been out for years. It's only been lately that arbos have discovered it's uses.

Tom


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## rumination (May 31, 2004)

Point taken, Tom. You are right.


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## Tim Gardner (May 31, 2004)

Nice Tom. Why the need to adjust between the Mongoose and Footlocker? 

Are you worried about something spinning that knob off?


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 1, 2004)

The adjuster is a system that I copied from "On Rope". It allows anyone to use the ascender and have the bridge the right length. This is critical if climbers want to have shoulders that function when they get older.

This is a prototype, like I said. When I got it the bolt had a Nylok nut on it. In order to change ropes I needed to pack along wrenches. I replaced the Nylok with a grade 8 fine thread bolt and the knob. I tighten it down firmly and it doesn't move. When this goes into production there will be a spring pin similar to what is stock on the Gibbs.

Tom


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## Proarbor (Jun 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> 
> 
> I just heard that mechanical ascenders are not allowed to be used in the aerial rescue at the TCC, or at least it wasn't allowed two years ago in the MWTCC, This seems screwy as i heard Dan Kraus used a Mar Bar upper in his aerial rescue this year. i'm trying to come up w/ my plan, but small inconsistencies w/ what is allowed from chapter to chapter are really throwing my journey off coarse. ARGGHHHH! [/B]



In last years Australian Nationals we were allowed to use assenders for the aerial rescue provided that they had a smooth cam. Makes sense to be able to use them as the comp is about simulating real life climbing conditions, so if an assender is safe and speeds your rescue up why should'nt we be allowed to use them ?


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## TreeJunkie (Jun 1, 2004)

Proarbor,
thanks, this is what i want to hear. I think its screwy. apparently 2yrs ago a guy wanted to use his pantin, and it wasn't allowed. they told him no mech. ascender except in the mC. It's not in the rule book either way so i'm not sure i have a great arguement; i can gaurantee i'm gonna try though.


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## Proarbor (Jun 1, 2004)

I think it all depends on your head judge on the day. Anything that is'nt clear in the rules is very arguable, I got a re-run at the AR in this years state comp after arguing an un-supported disqualification. Good luck anyway, climb hard and swing safe !

:blob6:


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## rumination (Jun 1, 2004)

I got a reply from the USA Petzl distributor this morning. Pretty much exactly what I was expecting, but it was nice to get such a quick response.



Leon,
Unfortunately, there are no plans to expand the Shunt to fit larger
diameter ropes at this time._ Rock Exotica's Doublecender is the only
device that I know of that fits the bill._ 

Please let me know if you have any further questions regarding Petzl
products, and I will be sure to pass you comments along to product
development.

Best Regards,
Blane C. Todd


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## SteveBullman (Jun 1, 2004)

you can also set up the shunt like this


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## rumination (Jun 1, 2004)

What kind of climbing line are you using there Stephen?


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## OutOnaLimb (Jun 1, 2004)

Doent the shunt work on the concept of small picks in the device to grab the rope? How can you ascend to your intended point and then come down to your preferred tie in point? Maybe I am wrong. Some one please set me straight on this. 
\
I am blessed with long legs and by using the traditional prusick I can pull up 24 inches with my legs and another 18 inches with the upper body thrust . I usually over shoot my target, and then swing out to my primary tie in point. I dont see how this can be done with mechanical ascenders


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## NickfromWI (Jun 1, 2004)

*Dislikes of the roc exotica*

So here's a better description of the prob I'm having with the roc exotica.....

Say you have the line doubled over a branch...You clip on the ascender over each side, now hold the rope and spin around a few times....the rope will twist/candy-cane. Now, proceed with the ascent. The ascender will push the twists up the rope. You will get to a point where you can ascend no further, due to the crossing/twisting of the rope. You have to stop mid-air and swing around the other way until both rope ends are hanging parallel...then you may proceed.

With a prusik, it doesn't matter...you just go up, over any crossings of the rope.

love
nick


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## daniel kraus (Jun 2, 2004)

Hello
I just want to clear up for TreeJunky or anyone else who working on their Aerial rescue of a comp. I used the footlocker to get into the tree only, I did not tie my rigging to it. I tied myself to a branch that was handy.


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## TreeJunkie (Jun 2, 2004)

gotcha dan,,,i'm sure you are familiar with running a biner w/ pulley off a short prusik cord, which you run your climbing line through and work off this set up. Footlock up high enough for a good point of attack, place a biner w/ stopper knot under prusik, and you are off working. I've used it twice now, it's pretty quick, and eliminates recrotching. If angle is bad a quick redirect can be installed. By taking my rope up on my back in a pack, i can eliminate having to redirect climbing line, and by working off of the prusik it elimates having to unclip your system and also elimates the need to ever lanyard in.

I was thinking using the footlocker instead of the the short prusik, would be a slicker set up and might run a little nicer, also a little safer i would think, although i think it would still be a good idea to place a stopper knot below the footlocker. 

The idea was derived from Jared Arborjena, and a guy named dan down in Mesa, AZ. i like it, granted, it only works if the tree is set up properly.


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## SteveBullman (Jun 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rumination _
> *What kind of climbing line are you using there Stephen? *



that was beal top gun 10.5mm
just started using fly. not quite so smooth with the fly with it being thicker


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 2, 2004)

TJ wrote:

The idea was derived from Jared Arborjena, and a guy named dan down in Mesa, AZ.

There's a nit wandering past me so I have to pick it 

I saw Jeff Jepson use that system in the AR in MN about seven or more years ago. When we talked about it he said that he had just thought it up. There are probably other climbers who've used it in the past too.

Tom


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## TreeJunkie (Jun 3, 2004)

I wassn't saying that they invented it... This was just where i first saw it. So this is my experience w/ the history of the system. I'm sure others use it, however, from the comps i've been to only maybe a handfull of others out there practicing this technique.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 3, 2004)

I know what you were saying  Just filling in some historical details.

That's a good system. Nice combination of techniques. Very flexible too.

Tom


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## okietreedude1 (Jun 3, 2004)

> By taking my rope up on my back in a pack,



You mean that pretty red/blue one that says 'TONKA' on it????


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## TreeJunkie (Jun 3, 2004)

You mean "LEGO",,, heck yeah, it's light, and it's retro. I picked that up at the thrift store for 50 cents. .


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## okietreedude1 (Jun 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *You mean "LEGO",,, heck yeah, it's light, and it's retro. I picked that up at the thrift store for 50 cents. .  *




Now if you could only find 'Eggo' rope. You could then make a new meaning for the phrase........"Leggo my Eggo!!"


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## daniel kraus (Jun 3, 2004)

Yes I’m well aware of these young hot shots with their fancy pants climbing systems.
Everything’s moving so fast, I stay the same for a couple of years and all of a sudden I’m old school.
Got to start working on my game.


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## rbtree (Jun 3, 2004)

Ha Dan, you old skuul, that'll be the day!!


But then, you are GRCS less...Pfsstt, lol! We used it twice today, to aid in rigging a hard leaning maple....we also used the Simpson capstan winch to yard out the lodged maple...had like 4 line on 'er! Double lowering lined the maple to get through our tiny drop zone between several tied back rhodys and vine maple. Had retrievable block and lowering line set at 65 feet in a well placed fir. 

Next use was to upright a big fallen cedar stump to get it to flop back in the hole.

Let me know when you guys get a tough job, I work cheap....haha.

Pictures and maybe a new thread will follow. We've now used "The Winch" five of the last 7 work days!

Rog, the old not so hot shot...eating ibuprofen and icing his toe that he clulessly dropped a chunk on--the poor old arthritic toe joint that has hurt since a gymnastics injury 40 long years ago...and nursing the broken (?) finger from day one of the storm work, and a broken (?) neck from the worst skiing fall of his life, at Whistler, 3 days before the little blow hit. And going in for implant surgery tomorrow...hey girls look at this!!!! Errr, just making some new teeth.....

Dang, there he goes again, thread derailing...just ignore the ole geezer, fellas!


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