# step by step photos of my VT hitch



## skwerl (Jan 15, 2006)

It's been a long time since we've had a good, solid thread on advanced hitches. I've read several requests lately from newer members wanting detailed pictures of some specific VT setups. I had the pleasure of Tree Machine's company yesterday and he took several pictures to document my hitch as I showed it to him. 

First off, I want to specify that my first experimentation with advanced hitches was with the Distel. I used it for about 5-6 months before going to the VT. The longer I used the Distel, the more often it locked up on me. I got to where I could only use a new tres cord for about 1 day before it got too grabby. By simply switching one crossover, I turned my 4-1 Distel into a 4-1 VT and all of a sudden life was good. 

I also started out using 5/16" New England Sta-Set (a double braid polyester) which has a tensile strength of 3000#. I later switched to 3/8" because it wasn't as grabby and didn't get as hot on fast descents. 3/8" Sta-Set has a tensile of 4200#. With 5/16", I cut it 42" and my eye-to-eye length was about 23.5". With 3/8" cord my eye-to-eye is about 25". I cut it about 46" before melting the ends and tying my double-fisherman's knots on the ends. I spend a couple minutes tightening the double-fisherman's knots, pulling alternately from either direction until the knot no longer moves or rolls. After that I leave the eyes tied permanently.

Here's a link to another post where I showed the Distel and double-fisherman's knots. http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=363904&postcount=2


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## skwerl (Jan 15, 2006)

Here's the last steps of tying and setting the hitch. The last picture (#33) is simply a visual reference showing the length of my tres cord against a 2' wide piece of plywood.

Everyone here is welcome to copy and share these pictures for non-profit use and education.


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## SteveBullman (Jan 15, 2006)

thats the same ammount of wraps and braids i use skwerl, only difference is on my braids the tail coming down from the top goes over rather than under the braid. i might tryit your way about tomorrow and see if it males any difference


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## skwerl (Jan 15, 2006)

Stephen,
With the top tail coming down and over, it basically makes all the wraps and braids go in the same direction. With use it will continually twist your lifeline. In fast descents it will twist so badly you need to stop and shake out the twists in order to descend. By bringing the top leg down and under to form the braid, it helps alternate the twisting action caused by the wraps. No more lifeline twist!


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks Brian...........we need a thread like this!


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## SteveBullman (Jan 15, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Thanks Brian...........we need a thread like this!



yeah its been brought up a hundred times but a hundred more wont harm!

thanks brian, i'll try that tomorrow


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## Chucky (Jan 16, 2006)

stephenbullman said:


> yeah its been brought up a hundred times but a hundred more wont harm!




There have many, many posts on AS and others sites as well regarding advanced hitches, but I think those seeking good, solid information on them, as well as finding good illustrations of them by searching the archives will have been disappointed. 

I’ve scoured the arboricultural forums myself seeking informative posts on advanced hitches using the keyword “hitches,” and 300 posts and 4 days later I've found myself in a thicker fog and deeper quagmire than what I was in in the first place. At best the results have been disjointed and unclear, at worst contradictory, and confusing.

Until now. At last, a most excellent, concise, and illuminating advanced hitching post by the redoubtable _Sciurus floridanus_ and the inimitable _Arborus machinus_.


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## tophopper (Jan 16, 2006)

Hey great thread rocko!

Intersting hitch!

Ive played and toyed with countless varations and dont think Ive ever tried that one. 
So do you prefer the 3/8 versus the 5/16?



and when climbing, does it require" setting" or will it most definatley grab when let go?


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## tophopper (Jan 16, 2006)

and do you ever have any troubles with the one leg of the tress(the DFL) sliding down the spine of the carabiner?


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## skwerl (Jan 16, 2006)

hey Tophopper,
I guess I got lucky with this particular combo. The cord makes a big difference. I tried other cords and most were too stiff. The Sta-Set is quite supple but holds up remarkably well. It's soft enough to always grab whenever loaded but has just enough stiffness to maintain it's shape and release easily. I never could understand why every picture I've seen of a VT had so many braids. They do nothing but add more slop to the hitch. 

I used the 5/16" for quite a while thinking it was 'faster' and 'more responsive' but soon figured out that it was actually too grabby and the cord got too hot and melted every time I made a fast descent. The 3/8" has a much more 'refined' feel and is easier to control when manipulating descent speed. And since there is more rope for distribting friction heat, it doesn't melt as easily as the smaller cord.

The double fisherman's eyes cinch down on the biner so they don't slide around. I use the regular mini pulley instead of the red Fixe pulley because it allows the tres cord eyes to stay closer together and centered in the biner. The Fixe pulley was a PITA for me and required using the Williams biner, and the eyes sometimes wanted to slide off to the side with that setup.


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## tophopper (Jan 16, 2006)

For me, getting the braids just right is the key. If you get them just right they function just like a spring and help push the coils upward. I like the overall shorter length of that hitch compared to a trad vt. To me it seems if you can tie it as short as possible the hitch is more responsive, the trade off has always seemed to be the potential to lock down.

Im gonna give your hitch a go tomorrow and see how it works for me although I wont be using stayset.

Heres a pic of a variation I toyed with a 5:2


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## skwerl (Jan 16, 2006)

Wow Dan, that was a while back. I was still using a buttstrap saddle and a steel clip on that old style lanyard! Once the changes started, it didn't take long for me to completely reform my climbing style and techniques. Ask Craig Jabs (rborist1, Alberta Arborists) if he recognizes that t shirt!


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## GlennG (Jan 17, 2006)

Rocky,

Do you use that VT for your climbing line or your lanyard...or both?

GlennG


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## Redbull (Jan 19, 2006)

I used a VT today on TreeJunkie's setup using Beeline for the VT on a Blaze climbing line. I'm definately going this direction with my friction hitch. It was a very responsive knot.


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## Redbull (Jan 19, 2006)

I've been wanting to try the VT for a while now, but didn't have an opportunity. Thanks TJ!


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## Fireaxman (Jan 22, 2006)

skwerl said:


> ... I never could understand why every picture I've seen of a VT had so many braids. They do nothing but add more slop to the hitch.



All the picts I saw of the multiple braids behind the VT were what steered me to the Knut. Now that I understand it works fine with just 1 braid I'll try it. The Knut is working great (much better than the Blake's I had been using) but if you tell me the VT is better still, I'm paying attention. 



skwerl said:


> ... The 3/8" has a much more 'refined' feel and is easier to control when manipulating descent speed. ...
> 
> I use the regular mini pulley instead of the red Fixe pulley because it allows the tres cord eyes to stay closer together and centered in the biner. The Fixe pulley was a PITA for me and required using the Williams biner, and the eyes sometimes wanted to slide off to the side with that setup.



Knuts! Dont you know I just bought the 5/16 and Fixe last week! So busy playing with it I didn't notice this thread until tonight. You are right of course. I noticed the problem with the pulley immediately. 

Anyway, thanks very much for the thread. Especially appreciate the details on lengths and micro pulley.


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## tophopper (Jan 22, 2006)

Fireaxman said:


> All the picts I saw of the multiple braids behind the VT were what steered me to the Knut. Now that I understand it works fine with just 1 braid I'll try it. The Knut is working great (much better than the Blake's I had been using) but if you tell me the VT is better still, I'm paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Scroll back up and look at the pic of my hitch....

the petzl fixe works just fine for a tending pulley, just simply put the one DFL inside the ears on the pulley and problem is solved. I use a petzl fixe on a williams biner and still have enough room for both DFL's, the fixe, and termination end of climbing line.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 22, 2006)

Mine is somewhat similar, but I've found that if you braid so that the end coming down from the top is trapped by the one on the bottom, the hitch will be less likely to drop a turn.

I also tie off to the becket of a Fixe' puley. I tends to be a bit more persnickety then



both ends to the carabiner.

(my camera is at my folks house so maybe someone else has a pic of the hitch)

properly tuned I have to tie it so that the carabiner end comes off the top wrap, and is allways braided on the bottom.

I'm still climbing on the hank of KM-III rescue that Brian sent me 2 years ago (well not the exact same piecs, it just lasts me a long time)


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## gumneck (Jan 22, 2006)

tophopper said:


> For me, getting the braids just right is the key. If you get them just right they function just like a spring and help push the coils upward. I like the overall shorter length of that hitch compared to a trad vt. To me it seems if you can tie it as short as possible the hitch is more responsive, the trade off has always seemed to be the potential to lock down.
> 
> Im gonna give your hitch a go tomorrow and see how it works for me although I wont be using stayset.
> 
> Heres a pic of a variation I toyed with a 5:2




School me. Is this safe practice in using one link for both ends of the rope? I can't see why not safe but thought I'd ask to be sure. Can't be too sure on rope right?


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## tophopper (Jan 22, 2006)

Well sure its safe, its probably safer than using 2 biners to terminate, IMO


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## skwerl (Jan 22, 2006)

gumneck,
double checking your weight ratings is somethnig that you can practice, and soon it comes as second nature no matter what your setup. Just go through each 'link' in your lifeline 'chain'. The Petzl William biner is good for 25kn which is above your 5000 lb minimum for life support. The tres cord varies by brand and size. The New England Sta-Set is 3000 lbs for the 5/16" and 4200 lbs for the 3/8". But the cord is doubled so that effectively gives you double the capacity, effectively 6000 lbs for the 5/16" and 8400 lbs for the 3/8". The lifeline is rated for about 6000 lbs. The Fixe biner is not part of the life support 'chain', it merely acts as a tender for the hitch. It bears none of your weight so you do not need a life support rated item here. All in all there appears to be plenty of safety margin built in, especially considering that the 5000 lb minimum is about a 20-1 safety margin over your typical working weight loads.


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## Stumper (Jan 22, 2006)

I doubt that you would EVER have a failure from that set up but FWIW-part of the load is too far out toward the nose of the carabiner. Loads are supposed to be along the carabiner spine or, in the case of HMS style 'biners, in the radius of the carabiner where a single line would naturally center. The further toward the gate you go the closer you get to operating in the rated range of failure from gate loading which is more along the lines of 7-8 kN instead of 25. Since only one leg of your DdRt set up is really removed from the center it isn't getting a very big load and you are probably quite safe but you are operating outside the carabiner's recommended use parameters.:angel:


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## Fireaxman (Jan 22, 2006)

tophopper said:


> Scroll back up and look at the pic of my hitch....
> 
> the petzl fixe works just fine for a tending pulley, just simply put the one DFL inside the ears on the pulley and problem is solved..



Thanks. I had overlooked that. I'll try it in the morning.


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## Redbull (Jan 27, 2006)

Even my 7 yr. old son has taken a liking to the VT.
Oh yeah, and I like it too!


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## Lumberjack (Jan 27, 2006)

Here is the hitch I use:







Mark C showed it to me back in Nashville and I have really taken a liking to it.


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## hobby climber (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi Lumberjack, I'm not one to correct people unless safety is a concern but that looks like it might be a little to long. Wouldn't you have to pull a fair bit of climb line through the micro pulley to have your V.T. release ? I would think that if it were shorter, it would be more responsive and less of a "two steps forward & one step back" action ! Just an observation. HC


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## Lumberjack (Jan 28, 2006)

Its the camera angle, the hitch is only 5-6" long.


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## Redbull (Jan 28, 2006)

Thats about the same length as mine and it's pretty responsive.


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## skwerl (Jan 28, 2006)

Lumberjack, I'm not picking, just trying to clarify here. I copied your hitch using 5/16" cord and it came out to almost 10" without the stretching effect caused by loading. 3/8" cord would make it almost 12". It does grab and release nicely but IMO it is better suited for those who still want to push their hitch forward like a Blake's instead of letting the tender work for them. I've learned to take advantage of the very short travel of a shorter hitch. Seems like your hitch would have about 6" of 'slop' every time you stepped up and then leaned back unless you physically grabbed your hitch and pushed it forward to take out the slack. Imagine the same hitch without the 4"-5" of extra braids.


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## xtremetrees (Jan 28, 2006)

Nice, I'm learning alot. I'm still on the blakes, now I may try anew.


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## KentuckySawyer (Jan 28, 2006)

Can we get a nice clear shot of your entire hitch, Lumberjack?

I've tried using twists in the braids of a VT, and I like how the knot stays more in line when loaded.


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## hobby climber (Feb 4, 2006)

*Just something to add...*

I ordered some Sta-Set and started experimenting with this VT. I found that if I tie one of the fisherman's knots one way and tie the second one in reverse, it sits closer to the micro pulley and dressed much cleaner over all on this setup. With both tied the same way its approx 1 1/2". With both tied opposite to each other with bulk facing inward, it approx 2". With both fisherman's knots tied opposite to each other with the bulk facing outward, its only about 1" !!! It dresses closer to the pulley and looks better with out the bulk pinching the pulley. As Skwerl mentioned 25" from eye to eye is just about right, mine is about 24 1/2" (eye to eye) on this VT. What do ya think about this idea of tieing the two fisherman's knots opposite to each other? Hope the pics show this better. HC


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 4, 2006)

One of the reasons I switched over to the Knut was to get away from all the "slop" of the 4 over 3 VT that I was using. With Brian's success with the 4 over 1 I will try the VT again!


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## hobby climber (Feb 5, 2006)

TreeCo...after playing with Skwerl VT in this post, I was able to shorten its over-all length it just by tieing the two fisherman's knots opposite to one another. You'll need less length of "Sta-Set" and will not have as much "Pinch" on the micro pulley. Less (rope) wear & tear on the fisherman's knot if its bulk side is facing out from the pulley.  HC


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## skwerl (Feb 6, 2006)

Great observation Hobby Climber. Yes, I always 'face' my fisherman's knots so the bulk of the knot is away from the pulley. It never occured to me to mention it, I just figured it was obvious. Your VT looks great. Hopefully it will make your climbing easier and safer. Shorter is better as long as the hitch will still release when unloaded.


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## hobby climber (Feb 8, 2006)

...Oh it does release unloaded, the Sta-Set rope makes all the difference in the world!!! Before you posted your VT, I was concidering ordering the Ultra-Tech (8mm) with spliced eyes at both ends and having it custom made shorter than in the Sherrill catalog. Untra-Tech is nice stuff but doesn't release that well after some use. The Sta-Set performs the best, stays round, grips under load and spring apart once load is removed. Only thing I would note about the sta-set is once you whip one end of it (length for hitch), you have to milk the rope real well before you whip the other end !!! I does make a difference. HC


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## tophopper (Feb 8, 2006)

OK

Good on you Rocko!!  


Today I finally got around to trying your 4:1 vt.

I tied mine about 20" long eye to eye, and used ultratech for tress cord.
It functions very well, doesnt bind up too tight, is easy to advance, and has very short action. I like it alot. I think tomorrow Ill try a piece of HRC instead of the ultra tech


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