# Climbing Systems



## Tr33Climb3r (Nov 5, 2008)

Well I am in school right now to become a Urban Forestry Technician. My dad has been in the business for over 25 years so I started off with a closed system like he uses. Then I got introduced to the split tail with a micro pulley and really liked it. Oh and by the way I used a blakes hitch. Then when I got to school my teacher let me try out the eye to eye prusik chord....i started out with a english prusik i think then I went to the distel and like it a lot. So now I am thinking of going to the hitch climber system......is there anyone that is using it and have any suggestions? any would help.....thanks a lot


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## Ted-RI (Nov 5, 2008)

The hitchclimber rules. I'd get those carabiners from petzl that are oval. That's about all I can say.


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## oldirty (Nov 5, 2008)

ted is right!


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

oldirty said:


> ted is right!



I didn't get a good look at that, I was to busy trying to see into the bedroom window.


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## Adkpk (Nov 5, 2008)

I tried a version of that hitch the other day and I still can't see how you don't burn yourself out on it pulling yourself up into the tree. It's to close to my chest to pull down on the rope. I pulled down on the rope above the hitch and pulled out on the tail end to take up slack and gave up after 10' or so. Is that how you use that hitch? Anybody ever see a video of someone pulling themselves up on one and where is it?


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> I tried a version of that hitch the other day and I still can't see how you don't burn yourself out on it pulling yourself up into the tree. It's to close to my chest to pull down on the rope. I pulled down on the rope above the hitch and pulled out on the tail end to take up slack and gave up after 10' or so. Is that how you use that hitch? Anybody ever see a video of someone pulling themselves up on one and where is it?



I found the same thing, good for limbwalking I suppose, and I don't like when I reach around to grab the set-up grabbing all that metal. Its hard to "see" it when you can't see it. The b-ners always flop around and it gets to the point... ah well, least i am tied in. Wanna see how far I can get out there?
To be truhtful, the extra time spent jerking around with the old set-up don't bother me, it might bother some but that don't bother me either. 
Sometimes I play with stuff of course but when I start adding b-ners, pulleys and other stuff like that I tend to get pinched in the nipples a lot. I never could get out of the old system and I did try. You know, the kid in the candy store? Its neato stuff but it also adds more stuff to keep an eye on.
One thing has been the real main factor in the decline of utilizing this stuff is that you still have to untie it all to pull your line out of the crotch. And the nipple pinching.
You don't think its about the same ammount of work and time? I kinda do. The old style has at least got to be safer. But here is one from the old days and I will bet everything I got that there is only one man out there who could possibly indentify this song ( I change that to ' maybe I will bet evrything)
To many b-ners
and not enough nots to tie
to many b-ners
and no reason why
I've dropped my saw
I've bent the bar
forgot my lunch
I'm gonna die
come on you mean to tell me no one ad libs their own lyrics to other songs?


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## Adkpk (Nov 5, 2008)

treemandan said:


> I found the same thing, good for limbwalking I suppose,



Is that it. Ascend on one system and then change to another to wisk yourself around in the canopy? 
I was in an oak yesterday and as I go out the limb I find myself reaching for all my life to get a hand on my hitch. It made me thinking of oldirty's hitch. At that point I wished it was closer. But does that mean you take that prusik with you and retie after the ascent? So is the "hitch climber" only used for limb-walking?


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> Is that it. Ascend on one system and then change to another to wisk yourself around in the canopy?
> I was in an oak yesterday and as I go out the limb I find myself reaching for all my life to get a hand on my hitch. It made me thinking of oldirty's hitch. At that point I wished it was closer. But does that mean you take that prusik with you and retie after the ascent? So is the "hitch climber" only used for limb-walking?


 I usually go up an acsender, of course ditch that,usually, and just go taughtline. I keep a small pulley if the walk back is tricky to help tend the line but I did it with out it for so long...
I just wanna get some sneakers and freeclimb everything now. its a whole lot easier than all that crap they say you need. Sorry, couldn't let go ( pun intented)
ahh! who am I kidding? I got so much crap and so many ways to do it you will usually find me up there just all tangled up 6 ways from sunday making evrybody run around looking for my split tail which just so happens to be hooked right by my side. I mean for crying out loud have you seen this?






see what I mean? 

I sure could use another spool





I am always in there cursing and throwing stuff around, I was thinking of getting a VAN! Plush shag and the whole nine yards, goota be 4 wheel drive. I got a cap on for winter and am always busting my head getting in there. there is tons you can't see in the green box, I have no idea what.
here is the cheap great ascecnder... quickly now quickly








These are for rigging but I have some large stuff like this for personal support on big wood. I just use webs in the tips

.


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## Ted-RI (Nov 5, 2008)

I've never been pinched by the hitchclimber. Because the friction hitch and termination knot are both attached to the hitchclimber it stays taught. Which makes it predictable and easy to find. Way less cross loading of carabiners too, but it does happen.


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

Ted-RI said:


> I've never been pinched by the hitchclimber. Because the friction hitch and termination knot are both attached to the hitchclimber it stays taught. Which makes it predictable and easy to find. Way less cross loading of carabiners too, but it does happen.



Not so much by the set-ups but by having the split tail side next to the rope side. I seem to get caught in it. The two ropes pinch together and Yeouch!
The taughtline connects with 1 point not two. When people work with me they ask why all the ropes. I tell em I don't know yet but please to get one if I ask. sometimes I keep a rope draped down the trunk for going up and down and may have more than one rope to get around with. Which ever way it is WORK setting up safely.
I shied away from retriveable false croches cause you can't tell me that thing ain't gonna get stuck one HOT Friday afternoon... don't need it, just shoot a few ropes in the wide canopy.


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

you might see in the ascender pic I just use real cheap rubber o-rings from the parts house to keep my b-ners from flopping around. I think they work just as good as the other things they have out. they are like a nickle apiece.


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## oldirty (Nov 5, 2008)

the only time i untie that knot is if i know i am going to pull the line through a tight crotch. other than that the knot stay on. that way its just a quick connect back onto the biner. 

at the end of the climb i pull the hitch climber to the end of the line, wrap the rope and pull one loop through and clip it to the lower biner. all put away nice and clean.


adkprk. when i ascend and i am not footlocking, i just reach above the knot and pull my way up. when its time to adjust the slack you just pull the rope. usually hanging there on my left hand tending slack with the right.


i wouldnt lie to you man, its a great setup and barely any slop. the prussic is about chin level when i am sitting back. i would not have stayed on this system if everything was too close.

i havent had any sideloading incidents yet. i really like this system although it is pretty much a waste of time if all you are doing is climbing pine or the likes. so far, in my opinion, it really shines when you are in a broad canopy or you have to go to many tie in spots.

soooo much faster than that taughtline, tman. give it a shot.

i highly recommend it.


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

oldirty said:


> the only time i untie that knot is if i know i am going to pull the line through a tight crotch. other than that the knot stay on. that way its just a quick connect back onto the biner.
> 
> at the end of the climb i pull the hitch climber to the end of the line, wrap the rope and pull one loop through and clip it to the lower biner. all put away nice and clean.
> 
> ...



I did. I do. Everything has its place. Like my nipples. Yeouch! I wouldn't lie to you either buzman. Well actually, I would BUT I am not lying now.


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## Adkpk (Nov 5, 2008)

If you want something done, do it yourself. :greenchainsaw: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydt-hUT6aGE

I thought maybe my problem was that I was using bee line prusik with half inch rope. And True Blue at that which is a little soft. But in the video he seems to be using the same type of setup. I guess it wouldn't hurt if I splurged for the right pulley either. I'll give it a try as soon as I get enough stuff to make an order to Sherrill or the likes. 

Dan do you think we could get a pic of you with all your gear on you in a tree.:jawdrop:  You look close in that one pic.


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## treemandan (Nov 5, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> If you want something done, do it yourself. :greenchainsaw:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydt-hUT6aGE
> 
> ...



It just happened.It wasn't staged, kinda glad it did. I mean what are the chances? Now don't anybody go photoshopping their face over mine! 

I do like those b-ners the guy had but you see what I mean? I keep getting pinched between the b-ners, the rope, etc. I use it evry once in a while.


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## oldirty (Nov 5, 2008)

i set mine up a little different than that video.


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## oldirty (Nov 5, 2008)

good. but seeing how you asked, i'll take a better look at it tomw. lol


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## Ted-RI (Nov 6, 2008)

My Hitchclimber is holding up very well. I've used almost five days a week for a year and a half. 
Mr Dan, how the F do you get "pinched" by this set-up. You know you're not supposed to put you head between the ends of your climbing line, right?
Pics of the pinching problems would be great. If you have experienced problems with this system I think its really important for you to share in as much detail as possible.


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## treemandan (Nov 6, 2008)

Ted-RI said:


> My Hitchclimber is holding up very well. I've used almost five days a week for a year and a half.
> Mr Dan, how the F do you get "pinched" by this set-up. You know you're not supposed to put you head between the ends of your climbing line, right?
> Pics of the pinching problems would be great. If you have experienced problems with this system I think its really important for you to share in as much detail as possible.



I did diil do


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## tree MDS (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks for that vid ardvark, I hadnt been quite able to grasp that thing fully till now. Looks interesting. It also looks a little scary, but somehow I've let myself become old fashioned, lol.

Next spring I'm gonna revamp my setup. I just cant afford everything going into winter this year. If I get confused up there jinglin around and fall, I'm gonna come back from the grave and pi$$ on yer saddles, lol.


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## Ted-RI (Nov 6, 2008)

treemandan said:


> I did diil do



Could you please translate.. "I did diil do"? I'm pretty sure that's not a sentence.


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## Ted-RI (Nov 6, 2008)

Hey The Dan, 
Technically you do have two connections with a tail tied system. You tie a termination knot(which is one) and then take that long tail and tie into the other part of you climbing line(lets call that two).


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## treemandan (Nov 6, 2008)

Ted-RI said:


> Could you please translate.. "I did diil do"? I'm pretty sure that's not a sentence.



oops. redo. I did didly do... now I don't diddly don't? explain that is. I did. I expalined.


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## treemandan (Nov 6, 2008)

Ted-RI said:


> Hey The Dan,
> Technically you do have two connections with a tail tied system. You tie a termination knot(which is one) and then take that long tail and tie into the other part of you climbing line(lets call that two).



Relax, I just only said that I got pinched. No big deal. Besides I am The Dan, your not. That' what is really bothering isn't it? 
Go ahead, enjoy. Enjoy your set-up, there is nothing better.


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## Ted-RI (Nov 6, 2008)

Would you please repost your explanation? I either don't get it or didn't see it. By the way, the hitchclimber system is not the only system I use. It just happens to be the topic of this thread. Do you or have you ever used the hitchclimber system? You're right about wishing I was Mr. Dan. I would be fine with any Dan not just The Mr.Dan.


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## treemandan (Nov 6, 2008)

Ted-RI said:


> Would you please repost your explanation? I either don't get it or didn't see it. By the way, the hitchclimber system is not the only system I use. It just happens to be the topic of this thread. Do you or have you ever used the hitchclimber system? You're right about wishing I was Mr. Dan. I would be fine with any Dan not just The Mr.Dan.



Oh my God! Its in here somewhere. I just don't like it OK teddy? I didn't really knock it and I use other types of set-ups too. I just listed some pros and cons amigo.Go back and read. to tell the truth I forgot what they were. I will remember next time my nipple gets pinched... YEEEOUCH!
Mister? No, The.


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## tree MDS (Nov 6, 2008)

Ted-RI said:


> Could you please translate.. "I did diil do"? I'm pretty sure that's not a sentence.



I didnt see that quite that way, lol.


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## tree MDS (Nov 6, 2008)

The part you said dan, about grabbing all that metal, its even worse when yer used to two overhands tied right at the D rings dinosaur style.

I sort of tried oldirt's out over the summer and thats the first thing that bothered me - of course the dude's a giant so his saddle was falling off of me practically, but still, much metal to grab when yer not used to it.


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## oldirty (Nov 6, 2008)

were you using the splittail or that hitchclimber?

i dont even notice the hardware anymore when i am climbing. muscle memory is an amazing thing. 

i cant wait to hear about the day that "old brown" gets hung on the wall for decoration in the shop.


at the very least put that pulley i gave you under your taughtline. baby steps man!


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## tree MDS (Nov 6, 2008)

oldirty said:


> were you using the splittail or that hitchclimber?
> 
> i dont even notice the hardware anymore when i am climbing. muscle memory is an amazing thing.
> 
> ...



I think we tried the hitchclimber, I dont really remember, lol.

I like the was that setup looks in that vidio though, might try that out sometime

Dont worry I'll put that pulley to use yet, thanks again, I almost forgot 
about that thing, lol.


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## Ted-RI (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't notice the hardware anymore either. It is more stuff to get used to, it took me a while.


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## D Mc (Nov 6, 2008)

I use a setup that feels similar to the hitch climber. There are a couple of advantages to this, in my mind, over the hitch climber. The first is price. And the second, you are not always bumping into the upper carabiner along side the hitch. It is pretty simple to set up. Just a double-eyed scaffold knot, so your carabiners are set in tandem similar to the hitch climber. There is no carabiner flop. 

Dave


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## treemandan (Nov 6, 2008)

D Mc said:


> I use a setup that feels similar to the hitch climber. There are a couple of advantages to this, in my mind, over the hitch climber. The first is price. And the second, you are not always bumping into the upper carabiner along side the hitch. It is pretty simple to set up. Just a double-eyed scaffold knot, so your carabiners are set in tandem similar to the hitch climber. There is no carabiner flop.
> 
> Dave



Nice rig. Now see the area between the top b-ner and the other side of the rope? dats where my nipple likes to go. Yeeeouch!


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## Adkpk (Nov 6, 2008)

That looks more like the hitch I tried but without the second biner. Didn't realize the "hitch climber" was about the pulley but now I know. Although I see D Mc got it together without one too. 

Does anybody just shorten there reach on the split tail with a blakes after the ascent to move around easier up top? That is what I will try next time.


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## Adkpk (Nov 6, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Nice rig. Now see the area between the top b-ner and the other side of the rope? dats where my nipple likes to go. Yeeeouch!



Maybe you should try a breast reduction.


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## D Mc (Nov 7, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Looks good Dave. I'm not familiar with the double-eyed scaffold knot.
> 
> Do you have an online source for tying?
> 
> Dan



I don't know of any. But I suspected someone might ask how to tie the knot, so took some pictures. Hopefully, they will be self-explanatory but as with any knot, practice, Tie, Dress and Set are crucial.

I don't believe it is truly necessary, but out of habit I put a stopper knot on the tail.

Dave


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## Ted-RI (Nov 7, 2008)

Cool knot. Nice, innovative solution


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## masiman (Nov 7, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> Maybe you should try a breast reduction.



Outta bullets to rep ya. :check:


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## treemandan (Nov 7, 2008)

Adkpk said:


> Maybe you should try a breast reduction.



heh, heh,heh. Just my experiance with it.


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## D Mc (Feb 23, 2009)

Treenoob, The system I have pictured works well for me. But I honestly wouldn't recommend it for somebody just getting in to climbing. It has a couple of quirks that you would easily be able to deal with once you have more experience, but could prove dangerous while still learning. 

A simpler set up can be done with the same materials which are:
eye-to-eye tail (Ice 8 mm), with a CMI micro pulley and 2 carabiners.

Climbing line of your choice. I use Velocity.

If you don't have it, The Tree Climber's Companion, is worth far more than the $20 it costs. 

Anyway, setup a standard split tail climbing system where one carabiner is tied to your termination knot and the other carabiner is tied to your eye-to-eye friction hitch and pulley and both are clipped into the bridge of your saddle. This is a standard setup. I would recommend a Distel or Schwabisch for your hitch as these are better to start with.

Climbing off of information posted on the internet alone is not the best way to go about this. I would strongly urge you to find someone in your area that is familiar with the use of ropes in trees. What appears simple and obvious can easiy be misconstrued or misinterpreted with disastrous results. 

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud here, but I have seen a lot of people make mistakes. So hands on training is by far the best.

Dave


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## wahlturfcare (Feb 24, 2009)

this video is the same as the hitch climber setup, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUuXv823xBw


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## wahlturfcare (Feb 24, 2009)

Treeco, thats video is how i climb and decend. you can also decent with the hitch climber setup ?


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## D Mc (Feb 24, 2009)

Treenoob, try this link for some knot information.

http://www.mytreelessons.com/friction hitch-work in progress.htm

Your safety blue is fine and drt is definitely the proper place to start. Stay low and slow. Have fun and good luck.

Dave


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## D Mc (Feb 24, 2009)

Treenoob, You can also just use a rated rope snap and climb on a closed system which is just the tail of your line tied to the ring of the rope snap with enough left over to tie a tautline or blake's hitch. A lot of people still climb with this system, it works well. 

You just need to make sure that both ends of your line are isolated and not split by limbs to wherever your highest point of your climb will be, because you cannot pass a limb without retying your knot. 

There will come a time where you will want to unclip your high line so while you are acquiring gear, get a lanyard of some sort so that you can tie in in the event of repositioning your climbing line.

Dave


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## (WLL) (Feb 24, 2009)

imo the h/c is a waste. why complicate an already simple setup. the pic i have posted is what i have used for the past 8 years. this is old school, the taught line and Blake's are ancient history. get with the times and go buy a spider jack, replace knots with splices wherever you can splices have been around before braided rope was ever even thought about. why are we so far behind the times? 




ropes and cordage have moved into the new ages and now we have a much better selection to pick from for me it used ta be the old 16 strand spliced rope with the old fashioned samson prussic cord, same set-up as above just a lot thicker,more weight,and no heat resistance.


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