# .050 vs..058 Chainsaw Chain



## 354d (Jul 11, 2013)

I have a Husqvarna 55 that is 15 years old with a 20" Oregon bar, .325 pitch x .058 guage. I was sold some Stihl chain that was 78 links x 
.325 pitch x .050. I was having problems with the saw cutting. I had the chain "professionally" resharpened. The chain would still barely cut. So, I went back to the dealer to ask for new .058 chain since this was the only thing I could think of that might be wrong. The dealer did not have any .058 chain so, I bought another .050 chain. The dealer said there was no difference between .050 and .058 chain, and he resharpened an older .050 chain that I owned. I installed the resharpened .050, and had poor results. I called another dealer who had some Oregon .058 chain, 78 links, and .325 pitch. The saw cut great, just like it used to cut. I returned the new, unused Stihl .050 chain to he first dealer for a refund, but the dealer still maintained that the .050 chain would cut just like the .058. I told him I tried the .050 chain that he resharpened with poor results. He did refund my money, but adamantly refused to believe that the .050 chain would not work. 

I am convinced that the .058 chain is the the difference, am I right? I am in a customer service business, and if I tell a customer something wrong, I want to know so that I can learn from my mistake. The first dealer had no interest in learning from my experience.

Thanks for looking at this post. All feedback is welcome.


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## nmurph (Jul 11, 2013)

The drive link (part that rides in the bar groove) is the measurement you are discussing. The wrong gauge (.050 vs .058) lets the chain lean over a little as it goes around the bar. That puts extra resistance against the motor, and the cutter is not attacking the wood at the angle it was designed to for. This can be exacerabated by using the wrong gauge on a bar that has some use and the rails are worn farther apart than spec.


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## MCW (Jul 11, 2013)

Find a different dealer. Any dealer telling you that using .050" chain in a .058" bar is OK means that either he is an idiot or didn't have any .058" chain in stock and wanted a sale that bad that he had no problem ripping you off. High chance that he fits into both categories.

If you had the old chain professionally sharpened and it wouldn't cut properly then something is wrong there too.

.050" chain in an .058" bar will "work" if the definition of working is moving around the bar under throttle. It is not an ideal situation but I have seen this plenty of times before on saws that customers bring in where they have a .063" bar fitted with .050" or .058" chain despite the previous dealer having "checked" it was all OK.


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## bower4311 (Jul 11, 2013)

Step one:

Sharpen your own chains.

Step two:

Find a different dealer. If possible.


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## CTYank (Jul 11, 2013)

354d said:


> I have a Husqvarna 55 that is 15 years old with a 20" Oregon bar, .325 pitch x .058 guage. I was sold some Stihl chain that was 78 links x
> .325 pitch x .050. I was having problems with the saw cutting. I had the chain "professionally" resharpened. The chain would still barely cut. So, I went back to the dealer to ask for new .058 chain since this was the only thing I could think of that might be wrong. The dealer did not have any .058 chain so, I bought another .050 chain. The dealer said there was no difference between .050 and .058 chain, and he resharpened an older .050 chain that I owned. I installed the resharpened .050, and had poor results. I called another dealer who had some Oregon .058 chain, 78 links, and .325 pitch. The saw cut great, just like it used to cut. I returned the new, unused Stihl .050 chain to he first dealer for a refund, but the dealer still maintained that the .050 chain would cut just like the .058. I told him I tried the .050 chain that he resharpened with poor results. He did refund my money, but adamantly refused to believe that the .050 chain would not work.
> 
> I am convinced that the .058 chain is the the difference, am I right? I am in a customer service business, and if I tell a customer something wrong, I want to know so that I can learn from my mistake. The first dealer had no interest in learning from my experience.
> ...



Your first dealer is an idiot, a liar, or both. The difference in gauge is .008" obviously enough. Running a .050" chain in a .058" bar groove, given that normal tolerances and wear will result in even more clearance, clearly can let the chain dance laterally. Note that the top plate angles on the cutters will generate sideways force.

Does this guy insist on selling .050" gauge chain for stihl's "isolationist" .063" gauge bars? Makes stocking chains simple, for him. :bang:

Heard the one about not arguing with a pig? Applicable here.

You've said it all. He won't listen to reason. Avoid/ignore this person, it might be contagious. Do business with people who'll do business with you.

Welcome to the AS asylum. Where the inmates are in charge.


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## Arrowhead (Jul 11, 2013)

I agree and disagree. Your dealer should have never sold you 050 for an 058 bar. 
I'm thinking your bar bar must be extremely worn if you can notice a difference. I have run 050 on 058 bars quite often on my own personal saws. I never recommend it or set up other peoples saws like that, but even on a 24" bar buried... I never had a cutting issue. I really don't know what to say about the fact the 050 wouldn't cut good for you... except your bar must need to be dressed, but even so, you shouldn't have had any major differences, I've used that combo for years with no noticeable difference.


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## bucknfeller (Jul 11, 2013)

I'd tell the dealer, that since "there is no difference" he should run some .058 chain in a .050 bar, and let you know how he makes out.


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## Sprint60 (Jul 11, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> I'd tell the dealer, that since "there is no difference" he should run some .058 chain in a .050 bar, and let you know how he makes out.



LOL; would like to see the look on his face.

To the OP: my experience with professionally sharpened chain is that you pay good money for a high-school kid (who's had about 10 minutes instruction) to ruin a perfectly good chain. It's better to learn how to file your own.


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## 514mach1 (Jul 11, 2013)

My .058 bars won't cut well past the first 1/3" with a .050 chain either. I've bought two saws that just don't cut for crap from sellers and the reason they don't cut is a .050 chain on a .058 bar. I keep the bars and I have a spool of .058 and a spool of .050 for my other bars. Probably if the bar has a new condition groove, the .050 would work.


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## sunfish (Jul 11, 2013)

Like said, .050 will work in a .058 bar and I've done it. But it's not going to work the best and if your bar has any wear, it'll just be worse.

I run .058 Stihl and Oregon chain on all my saws. It's easy to get the right stuff! :msp_smile:


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## jus2fat (Jul 11, 2013)

MCW said:


> Find a different dealer. Any dealer telling you that using .050" chain in a .058" bar is OK means that either he is an idiot or didn't have any .058" chain in stock and wanted a sale that bad that he had no problem ripping you off. High chance that he fits into both categories.
> 
> *If you had the old chain professionally sharpened and it wouldn't cut properly then something is wrong there too.*
> 
> .050" chain in an .058" bar will "work" if the definition of working is moving around the bar under throttle. It is not an ideal situation but I have seen this plenty of times before on saws that customers bring in where they have a .063" bar fitted with .050" or .058" chain despite the previous dealer having "checked" it was all OK.


MCW...If you read the OP closely..the dude *didn't* take in his .058 chain to be sharpened..he took an* old .050 chain.*

Thus, it wouldn't cut any better than the newer .050 chain...that dealer should be "shot-on-the spot"..!!

J2F


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## 354d (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies to this post. My bar is an old bar, no doubt. Maybe with the wear on the bar, the .050 chain will not work. With my old bar, I will have to run .058. Anyway, the saw performed well the other day, so maybe I have a solution.  Thanks for the advice.


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## jus2fat (Jul 11, 2013)

354d said:


> Thanks for all the replies to this post. My bar is an old bar, no doubt. Maybe with the wear on the bar, the .050 chain will not work. With my old bar, I will have to run .058. Anyway, the saw performed well the other day, so maybe I have a solution. Thanks for the advice.


354d - Bro..you're breaking rule #1 - - "Don't screw yourself"..!!

Run .050 gauge chain on an .050 bar - - .058 gauge chain on an .058 bar - - .063 gauge on an .063 bar.

You can run the smaller chain in a larger bar for a very short time in an emergency - but you're wearing both chain and bar.

Just like you can run .043 3/8 LoPo on a regular .050 regular 3/8 bar for a very short time - but it will wear both chain and bar.

J2F


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## Wolfcsm (Jul 11, 2013)

354d said:


> Thanks for all the replies to this post. My bar is an old bar, no doubt. Maybe with the wear on the bar, the .050 chain will not work. With my old bar, I will have to run .058. Anyway, the saw performed well the other day, so maybe I have a solution. Thanks for the advice.



You might look at Bailey's ( a sponsor here) for the .058 chain you need.

A file guide may help you with getting the sharpening done so you can get a good cut from your chain.

I see you are in Central Texas. Where? I am in Killeen. PM me if you would like to meet up and I can show you two different file guides I have.

Hal


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## nstueve (Jul 11, 2013)

Wow... We went through all this discussion on guage and missed the obvious... The 050 chain could have been some cheap arse semi chisel and the 058 might be some decent brand name chain.

That being said any good saw dealer should be able to roll your rails closed and file or grind the rails so that the new chains float easily yet snug down the bar. I inspect all the bars that come through here and teach everyone to do it on their own, so their bar and chains last longer. It's not rocket science to check for coving or mushroomed bars. I have three gauge sticks to run the bar groove with to make sure it's not to tight or loose for the guage if chain being used.

Also properly hand sharpened chains should become faster cutting as the distance between the cutter and raker becomes larger. 

Just 2cents from a guy that keeps his customers happy.


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## 354d (Jul 11, 2013)

nstueve said:


> Wow... We went through all this discussion on guage and missed the obvious... The 050 chain could have been some cheap arse semi chisel and the 058 might be some decent brand name chain.
> 
> That being said any good saw dealer should be able to roll your rails closed and file or grind the rails so that the new chains float easily yet snug down the bar. I inspect all the bars that come through here and teach everyone to do it on their own, so their bar and chains last longer. It's not rocket science to check for coving or mushroomed bars. I have three gauge sticks to run the bar groove with to make sure it's not to tight or loose for the guage if chain being used.
> 
> ...




.050 chain was Stihl brand , .058 was Oregon.


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## Vibes (Jul 11, 2013)

I have several older Total bars with the square notch instead of the newer V notch on the nose sprocket. They are factory marked .050- .058. I have run both sizes on these bars in .325 and haven't noticed any cutting irregularities. I am starting to switch to all .058 since my 346 and 2152 came stock with .058, and the guy I bought the 346 from gave me 5 new 20 inch chains with it.

3 of the bars I'm talking about came from ebay saws and they had no unusual wear at all. Some had .050 some .058.


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## olyman (Jul 11, 2013)

heres something else no one mentioned......trying to run, 050 chain, in a 058,,is stupid for another reason. how wide,,are the side links,,that the chain rides on top of the bar?? if the side links,,were on each side,wider by 5 thousands,,that would help keep the chain square on top of the bar. but the 050 is still going to be riding back and forth in the rail, and beating the h out of the bar........so magnified,,the chain is running back and forth like a sidewinder snake.....what do you think,,that is doing to the rivets in the chain?? we arent talking 200 rpm here............some bars,,aren't real tight on the width of the bar slot either, and by running a chain in the larger rail slot...........NOT!!! call Oregon,carlton,,or stihl co,,and see what they would say about that.....


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## MCW (Jul 11, 2013)

jus2fat said:


> MCW...If you read the OP closely..the dude *didn't* take in his .058 chain to be sharpened..he took an* old .050 chain.*
> 
> Thus, it wouldn't cut any better than the newer .050 chain...that dealer should be "shot-on-the spot"..!!
> 
> J2F



I got that. Thing is that that .050" chain in a .058" should actually cut if "professionally" sharpened, even if it cuts around corners. OP said it "The chain would still barely cut" 

Sad part is that many people assume that the term "professional" means that the person knows what they're doing. Sadly the term professional also means being paid for what you do, whether you are good or not.

Shot on the spot is a fair call too, especially when the dealer KNEW that the bar guage was wrong yet still sold the wrong chain.


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## SawTroll (Jul 11, 2013)

MCW said:


> I got that. Thing is that that .050" chain in a .058" should actually cut if "professionally" sharpened, even if it cuts around corners. OP said it "The chain would still barely cut"
> 
> *Sad part is that many people assume that the term "professional" means that the person knows what they're doing. Sadly the term professional also means being paid for what you do, whether you are good or not.*
> 
> Shot on the spot is a fair call too, especially when the dealer KNEW that the bar guage was wrong yet still sold the wrong chain.



Sad, but very true!


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## Wood Doctor (Jul 11, 2013)

*Let's Look at the Reverse...*

... an older 050 bar can eventually run an 058 chain beautifully. That's because the chain wears the bar down in time and the bar's groove gets wider. In fact, an old and worn 050 bar welcomes a new 058 chain with open arms. :msp_smile:


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## SawTroll (Jul 11, 2013)

Wood Doctor said:


> ... an older 050 bar can eventually run an 058 chain beautifully. That's because the chain wears the bar down in time and the bar's groove gets wider. In fact, an old and worn 050 bar welcomes a new 058 chain with open arms. :msp_smile:



That may happen on a _very_ worn bar - but usually the slot in the bar will develop sort of a V-shape, so the larger gauge chain won't have proper support either.


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## Wood Doctor (Jul 11, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> That may happen on a _very_ worn bar - but usually the slot in the bar will develop sort of a V-shape, so the larger gauge chain won't have proper support either.


Correct. The 050 bar has to be worn quite a bit. I've run into a bunch of these with vintage saws. Most are in the over 10-year-old range. I usually ask customers to try first and then see what they say. The 058 chain I supply to them is semi-chisel. They call back and say, "Fabulous new chain!"

I rest my case.


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## SawTroll (Jul 11, 2013)

Wood Doctor said:


> Correct. The 050 bar has to be worn quite a bit. I've run into a bunch of these with vintage saws. Most are in the over 10-year-old range. I usually ask customers to try first and then see what they say. The 058 chain I supply to them is semi-chisel. They call back and say, "Fabulous new chain!"
> 
> I rest my case.



It can be acceptable on collectors items that seldom is run, specially if you can close the top of the rails and true the rail tops - but it mainly is just a "stop-gap" solution, not a lasting one. :msp_smile:


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## MCW (Jul 11, 2013)

Wood Doctor said:


> The 058 chain I supply to them is semi-chisel. They call back and say, "Fabulous new chain!"
> 
> I rest my case.



Can I ask what sized wood your customers are cutting? The only reason I say that is that in smaller cuts you don't tend to see the chain wandering off like you do in larger cuts if there are any issues with cutter angles or worn bar grooves.


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## Wood Doctor (Jul 11, 2013)

*Average-Size Stuff*



MCW said:


> Can I ask what sized wood your customers are cutting? The only reason I say that is that in smaller cuts you don't tend to see the chain wandering off like you do in larger cuts if there are any issues with cutter angles or worn bar grooves.


Most of them are tree trimmers and could run into about anything in size, but I would have to say mostly medium sized trees less than 24" dia. trunks. Their old bars are normally 20" or less. I check the sprocket nose also and make sure that it's not fishtailed out. Otherwise, the bar should probably go to the graveyard anyway.

Most of my logger customers are already running 058 or 063 gauge bars. Very few loggers have any 050 bars on board.


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## SawTroll (Jul 11, 2013)

MCW said:


> Can I ask what sized wood your customers are cutting? The only reason I say that is that in smaller cuts you don't tend to see the chain wandering off like you do in larger cuts if there are any issues with cutter angles or worn bar grooves.



Also, it tends to work better in vertical cuts than in horisontal ones.


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## J.Walker (Jul 11, 2013)

Here in the USA you can use a penney and a dime to check your bar rail slot to see if it is 50 or 58ga.

What would other countries use?


.


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## hamish (Jul 11, 2013)

I can jam an .063 chain in a worn .050 bar, what has been accomplished.................

Why do I even bother to get out of bed everyday, striving to be the best I can be, passing on knowledge to every customer, making things right, must be kind of pointless.

In reality saws can run for an amazingly long time on straight gas.

Don't knock the dealer right of the bat, lots of us have employees, some are into saws, some aren't. Like the gay guy selling bras at wally world, hes just not into his job, that the reality of our economy at the lower end.

Giddy giddy! I'm gonna become a bra salesperson....................wow, and I thought I liked wrenching on saws everyday!


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## bower4311 (Jul 11, 2013)

hamish said:


> I can jam an .063 chain in a worn .050 bar, what has been accomplished.................
> 
> Why do I even bother to get out of bed everyday, striving to be the best I can be, passing on knowledge to every customer, making things right, must be kind of pointless.
> 
> ...



What a strange post... 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## jus2fat (Jul 11, 2013)

J.Walker said:


> Here in the USA you can use a penney and a dime to check your bar rail slot to see if it is 50 or 58ga.


Bailey's 36 cent bar gauge determination tool

Numbers worn off your bar? Forget the last time you ordered a bar or chain for your chainsaw? Dog ate your chainsaw manual? If you don't have a good way to measure your bar groove, perhaps it's time for a change. Now you too, can have a Bar Gauge Tool for the low, low price of only 36 cents. Each of the coins below will fit snugly in the corresponding gauge chainsaw bar groove.

Quarter = .063 gauge

Penny = .058 gauge

Dime = .050 gauge

J2F


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## burnses (Jul 11, 2013)

354d said:


> I have a Husqvarna 55 that is 15 years old with a 20" Oregon bar, .325 pitch x .058 guage. I was sold some Stihl chain that was 78 links x
> .325 pitch x .050. I was having problems with the saw cutting. I had the chain "professionally" resharpened. The chain would still barely cut. So, I went back to the dealer to ask for new .058 chain since this was the only thing I could think of that might be wrong. The dealer did not have any .058 chain so, I bought another .050 chain. The dealer said there was no difference between .050 and .058 chain, and he resharpened an older .050 chain that I owned. I installed the resharpened .050, and had poor results. I called another dealer who had some Oregon .058 chain, 78 links, and .325 pitch. The saw cut great, just like it used to cut. I returned the new, unused Stihl .050 chain to he first dealer for a refund, but the dealer still maintained that the .050 chain would cut just like the .058. I told him I tried the .050 chain that he resharpened with poor results. He did refund my money, but adamantly refused to believe that the .050 chain would not work.
> 
> I am convinced that the .058 chain is the the difference, am I right? I am in a customer service business, and if I tell a customer something wrong, I want to know so that I can learn from my mistake. The first dealer had no interest in learning from my experience.
> ...



The difference is .008 inch letting the cutter flop around and note keep the cutter square to the wood!


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## burnses (Jul 11, 2013)

*.008*



354d said:


> I have a Husqvarna 55 that is 15 years old with a 20" Oregon bar, .325 pitch x .058 guage. I was sold some Stihl chain that was 78 links x
> .325 pitch x .050. I was having problems with the saw cutting. I had the chain "professionally" resharpened. The chain would still barely cut. So, I went back to the dealer to ask for new .058 chain since this was the only thing I could think of that might be wrong. The dealer did not have any .058 chain so, I bought another .050 chain. The dealer said there was no difference between .050 and .058 chain, and he resharpened an older .050 chain that I owned. I installed the resharpened .050, and had poor results. I called another dealer who had some Oregon .058 chain, 78 links, and .325 pitch. The saw cut great, just like it used to cut. I returned the new, unused Stihl .050 chain to he first dealer for a refund, but the dealer still maintained that the .050 chain would cut just like the .058. I told him I tried the .050 chain that he resharpened with poor results. He did refund my money, but adamantly refused to believe that the .050 chain would not work.
> 
> I am convinced that the .058 chain is the the difference, am I right? I am in a customer service business, and if I tell a customer something wrong, I want to know so that I can learn from my mistake. The first dealer had no interest in learning from my experience.
> ...



The difference is .008 inch letting the cutter flop around and note keep the cutter square to the wood!


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## 514mach1 (Jul 12, 2013)

jus2fat said:


> Bailey's 36 cent bar gauge determination tool
> 
> Numbers worn off your bar? Forget the last time you ordered a bar or chain for your chainsaw? Dog ate your chainsaw manual? If you don't have a good way to measure your bar groove, perhaps it's time for a change. Now you too, can have a Bar Gauge Tool for the low, low price of only 36 cents. Each of the coins below will fit snugly in the corresponding gauge chainsaw bar groove.
> 
> ...



With my calipers I just measured these. I got:

quarter: .068

penny: .058

dime: .054

The penny should fit a new .058 bar easily. The dime will be a tight fit or no-go on a new .050 bar. The quarter should be a no-go on a .063 bar unless the bar is somewhat worn.


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## SawTroll (Jul 12, 2013)

J.Walker said:


> Here in the USA you can use a penney and a dime to check your bar rail slot to see if it is 50 or 58ga.
> 
> What would other countries use?
> 
> ...



Drive links, or maybe just read what it says on the bars?


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## sunfish (Jul 12, 2013)

hamish said:


> I can jam an .063 chain in a worn .050 bar, what has been accomplished.................
> 
> Why do I even bother to get out of bed everyday, striving to be the best I can be, passing on knowledge to every customer, making things right, must be kind of pointless.
> 
> ...



LOL Strange yes, But One of the best posts I've read in a long while! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Wood Doctor (Jul 14, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Drive links, or maybe just read what it says on the bars?


However, half the time you can't even read the bar information. It rubs off (maybe by design).:msp_rolleyes:


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## Karl Robbers (Jul 14, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> That may happen on a _very_ worn bar - but usually the slot in the bar will develop sort of a V-shape, so the larger gauge chain won't have proper support either.


True, although the jump from .058 to .063 is less problematic in my experience.
Truth to tell, by the time a bar wears to this extent, the groove is pretty shallow and the drive tangs are skimming the bottom of the groove or close to, so the bar is really "in God's waiting room".
For the amount of work they do, bars are not that expensive anyway.


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## MCW (Jul 14, 2013)

Karl Robbers said:


> True, although the jump from .058 to .063 is less problematic in my experience.
> Truth to tell, by the time a bar wears to this extent, the groove is pretty shallow and the drive tangs are skimming the bottom of the groove or close to, so the bar is really "in God's waiting room".
> For the amount of work they do, bars are not that expensive anyway.



I agree mate. I have no issues with people going to the ends of the earth rejuvenating an old bar for a rare collectible but just like chains and sprockets, bars are a consumable that eventually wear out. I've seen people that anal about getting the last cut out of an old, worn out bar that they forget they are potentially wrecking $100 worth of chains in the process.


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## SawTroll (Jul 14, 2013)

Karl Robbers said:


> True, although the jump from .058 to .063 is less problematic in my experience.
> Truth to tell, by the time a bar wears to this extent, the groove is pretty shallow and the drive tangs are skimming the bottom of the groove or close to, so the bar is really "in God's waiting room".
> For the amount of work they do, bars are not that expensive anyway.



:agree2:



MCW said:


> I agree mate. I have no issues with people going to the ends of the earth rejuvenating an old bar for a rare collectible but just like chains and sprockets, bars are a consumable that eventually wear out. I've seen people that anal about getting the last cut out of an old, worn out bar that they forget they are potentially wrecking $100 worth of chains in the process.



:agree2:


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## Gologit (Jul 14, 2013)

MCW said:


> I agree mate. I have no issues with people going to the ends of the earth rejuvenating an old bar for a rare collectible but just like chains and sprockets, bars are a consumable that eventually wear out. I've seen people that anal about getting the last cut out of an old, worn out bar that they forget they are potentially wrecking $100 worth of chains in the process.



Well said.


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## chilipeppermaniac (Aug 9, 2018)

I know this thread is a bit old, but I read through all the pages and also had a possible reason the OP's pro sharpened chain might not cut well. Is it possible no one checked the height of the rakers and/or filed them properly for maximum bite from the cutters?


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