# Retiring to the woods - moving wood.



## peterrum (Apr 6, 2008)

Hello All;

I am relatively new to this site and have spent the last few weeks devouring the information in it. It is nice to see so much information and absolute brilliance on this site about CSM's, which is the system I will be starting with. I recently retired from a job I worked at for 30 years and picked up a contract to do some work in Africa. That contract finishes at the end of this year and then I will retire for good, but never say never. I have spent tons of time throughout my life playing in the woods, hunting, fishing, camping, gathering firewood and hiking. Like alot of you I get my peace and destress by being in the woods. Its good for the soul, no doubt about that. So lucky me, now that I will be coming home full time, I will get to spend more time doing the things that I want. Again like all of you, I have a massive to do list which includes, rebuilding two decks, renovating the kitchen, rebuilding a few outbuildings on a gorgeous piece of property tucked into the mountains of southern British Columbia, and maybe building a small solar kiln. One of the outbuildings on my property is a smaller log barn which had a covered hay shed attached to it and this collapsed just before I purchased the place. 
At any rate since I have been over here in Africa the price of dimensional lumber in Canada has risen to what I think of as ridiculous prices. So I started talking to one of my co-workers here and he mentioned that he had a 36" Alaska Mill which he does not use and he would sell it to me. He said that he bought it 20 years ago when he was stationed in the Yukon. He used it once and has never used it since. I have heard about these Alaska Mills over the years and thought, why not try it. So I bought it from him and he threw in a book he received when he bought it, Malloff's book on Chainsaw Lumbermaking. What a gem that has been. I have devoured that book and along with the advice I have discovered on this site, from the likes of Woodshop(a man of extreme talent) and others, I am starting to develop my "system". I have purchased a Husky 395XP for the mill and have a 30" bar for it along with a few ripping chains. I am still breaking the saw in before I start to use it on the CSM. I have also purchased the Haddon Lumbermaker as I know that I will be able to use it. Most of my work will be done out in the woods as I have a fair amount of blowdown on the edges of my property, 24" douglas firs, some pine and larch. I don't have the big equipment to move any of this big wood as I am a just a weekend warrior with a pickup truck and a few come alongs. But some of the timber can be bucked up to length and moved. Lets assume that with my floor jacks and winches I am able to get a 10 ft. long 18" diameter piece of fir into the bed of my truck. Here is where my question will come. As part of my "system", I will rebuild the hay shed I mentioned earlier and use that for doing some of my CSM work, mostly to get out of the elements. I will be able to stack the cut lumber in this shed as well to air dry, 3 sides are open so there will be enough air movement. But before I do that, I need to get the tree into the shed in order to get it cut. The best way that i can think about doing this is to use an I beam with a moving trolley/hoist. I can park the truck outside the shed underneath the end of the I beam, use the hoist to lift the logs out of the bed of the truck and then move it along the beam, into the shed and then lower the log onto a raised bed for the CSM. Does anyone use this type of system and if so can you post pics or details of the mechanics you use. One last thing, this property I have is off the grid, we use solar power to the main house/cabin for but there is no power to the outbuildings. Thanks all and again this is a great site.


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## BobL (Apr 6, 2008)

peterrum said:


> . . . . . I have a massive to do list which includes, rebuilding two decks, renovating the kitchen, rebuilding a few outbuildings on a gorgeous piece of property tucked into the mountains of southern British Columbia, and maybe building a small solar kiln. One of the outbuildings on my property is a smaller log barn which had a covered hay shed attached to it and this collapsed just before I purchased the place.



With this list I, and I presume you want to complete these in this life time? I would consider a bandsaw mill. Maybe get a CSM as well but only use it to carve your logs into basic shape before applying the BS mill.

Edit: Oh yeah - and welcome aboard you will enjoy the ride!


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## MotorSeven (Apr 6, 2008)

You are doing something similar to what i did, except that i only had a 14x30 shed on my place when i retired. The first thing i bought was a Tractor with a front end loader(FEL), and i did that a year before the move. Judging by the quanity and size of the trees/logs you have to move around i can say that it would be an invaluable tool, not to mention a lifetime investement. A set of bucket forks(i built mine out of old forklift forks) or a set of factory quick detach pallet forks will make life alot easier and safer. 
I looked around at used tractors for 6 months, but decided to go new and with a Korean tractor- Kioti CK30, 30 horse diesel, hydrostat transmission, 4x4. THe tractor delivered with a post hole digger, bush hog, & HD box blade was just over 17K. They have a 4 year warranty & good dealer/parts support. 200 hrs later i am more than satisfied with the machine. Anyway, go to www.Tractorbynet.com & you can learn everything there is to know about buying/owning a tractor. 
JUst my .02, but i ain't as young as i used to be & humping around these logs by hand is not my idea of fun. Besides, if it is difficult to get to and move, you will most likely end up leaving it there in the woods. With the right equipment a tedious job is more entertainment than work. 
RD


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## peterrum (Apr 6, 2008)

I agree that both a bandsaw mill and a tractor would be invaluable but for now it boils down to dollars and cents. I'll have to make do with what I have and the larger logs will have to be milled where I find them. I might have an opportunity to pick up a smaller woodmizer from a neighbour who says he is getting a bigger model, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Yes, my to do list is a bit large but what the heck, can't sit around all day as a RG(retired gentleman) and do nothing.


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## carvinmark (Apr 6, 2008)

peterrum said:


> I agree that both a bandsaw mill and a tractor would be invaluable but for now it boils down to dollars and cents. I'll have to make do with what I have and the larger logs will have to be milled where I find them. I might have an opportunity to pick up a smaller woodmizer from a neighbour who says he is getting a bigger model, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Yes, my to do list is a bit large but what the heck, can't sit around all day as a RG(retired gentleman) and do nothing.



Thats right, and I like the RG,LOL


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## BobL (Apr 6, 2008)

peterrum said:


> Yes, my to do list is a bit large but what the heck, can't sit around all day as a RG(retired gentleman) and do nothing.



Well I guess you could but like probably like you that would drive me insane.  I think I'm just jealous


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## big daddio (Apr 6, 2008)

yeah, i'm jealous too, walked out the door this morning and looked around, thought if i didn't have to go to work tomorrow [or days after] i might get caught up. few years to go yet til retirement. agree with BobL, check on that wm. a tractor would be nice too. borrowed dads this morning to move some logs closer to the mill. sure saves the back.


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## woodshop (Apr 7, 2008)

Peter I'm about 4-5 years behind you, and I do understand having to make things work with what you have on hand now. Short of a used tractor, there are ways to move large logs. I've used my floor jack along with blocking, small sawhorses, tree stumps etc to get a whole log up off the ground high enough to then push/winch into the back of my van. To get them out I rutch the log up and get dowels under it, to where it moves easily. Same on the ground, round small firewood pieces under it allow you to move it by hand or just push/pull with your truck. I've attached chain to my van and pulled relatively large logs out from a pile that way. Point is with a little time and ingenuity, you CAN move logs with just a floor jack, chain, prybar and such. As for your idea of an I-beam with a moving trolley hoist... unless you find a used one somewhere that ain't rusting to where it's unsafe, I'd think that would set the wallet back a bit.

I envy you being off the grid and living where woods are right there for you. I too find solice in the woods. It's one reason I decided to major in Forestry 30 years ago after I spent a few years in the Army pulling tanks out of the mud. As for being off the grid though... gosh I have a shop full of cast iron that takes serious power. I just purchased a CNC router that takes a fair amount of 220 current also. Would be hard to run my woodshop all from solar I think. 

Keep us informed as to your progress milling, and ask lots of questions so you don't reinvent the wheel.


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## DRB (Apr 7, 2008)

I use my old Ford F-250 to drag logs around at my acreage. I do most of the skidding in the winter when there is snow on the ground. This keeps the logs clean. If I chain up all four wheels it is amazing what you can pull, I usually don't even take them off in the summer time. The truck gets good traction and the log slides easily. I usually don't start having problems till we get close to three feet of snow, just keep packing the snow down on the skid trails and all is good. It also allows me to get to some of the wetter areas of my property with chewing up mud & getting stuck.

If you can use the winter to your advantage it would be alot easier than loading 18" doug fir into your truck. You would also be able to pull the whole tree to your hay shed and buck it to whatever you want and cut the rest into firewood. If you can set it up so your milling site is slightly below your skid trail landing area then you can simply roll your log down toward your mill and begin cutting

If you pull the tree from the small end the but end will not hang up as easily or did a big ditch in your skid trails.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Keep us informed how it goes.


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## billstuewe (Apr 8, 2008)

I move my logs with an old '82 Ford F350 that had been converted into a wrecker. I can pick up a 6000# log and put it on my trailer and bring it home ,then pick it up off the trailer and set it on my mill. Check around your area for someone's old retired wrecker. Mine cost $200 plus another $500 to get it running. As for the mill, Check out the Logosol M7 at www.logosol.com .
I have sawn about 10000bf with mine. You aready have a great saw to use so you just need the frame


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## FJH (Apr 8, 2008)

The bad thing with the band mill idea is the maintance of blades!
in remote areas not a good thing!a chain mill can easily be maintained in house for the most part a bit slower but worth thinking on! a tractor is a must ,frontend loader would help but you can build a set of forks that can double as an arch! this is my set up works for me . Its not for everyone !The bad thing here is (The tractor is everything) if it breaks Im screwed It pulls the wood .loads the mill and runs the mill .Would I do this again? Nope! but had fun and some frustration doing it and it has paid for its self twice over.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewshow/7685528731-1172719178-38857/parm/page/


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## peterrum (Apr 8, 2008)

*another thought*

Okay back to the KISS principle. The hay shed I have to rebuild is about 20 ft. wide. I am going to use pole construction for the rebuild. I'll leave it open on two sides so that I can drive my truck right through it with either a log in the box or towing it as DRB describes. Tow the log into the middle of the shed, lift it with a chain hoist that is on a sturdy pole rafter, then lower it onto ponies. Then the fun starts. This will work for sure now I just have to get back home and get it done. Cancel the I beam order.

FJH, You hit the nail on the head with your comment about the break downs. If its mechanical and you need to really count on it you will have those odd moments that you will be in trouble or can't get the things done that you want to. I'm not in a rush though so spending a little bit of extra time using other, more physical methods is fine with me. Cheaper for me too. Are those cedars I see in the background of your photos, I'll take a guess that you are on Van. Island.

DRB, your method will work for me and i will more than likely give it a try. I have a GMC 3/4 T HD,. I'm at 3500' and when bow season finishes on Dec. 10th its time to get some wood in and there is about a foot of snow at my place by then. More tire chains are now on the buy list. 

Cheers all.


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## FJH (Apr 8, 2008)

Are those cedars I see in the background of your photos, I'll take a guess that you are on Van. Island.

Yup!


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## DRB (Apr 8, 2008)

If you can get a used set of double chains from a logging truck there will almost be enough parts to make a set for your pickup truck. I was lucky enough to find a set on a logging road hill that a truck must have spit off. Seems that in the spring they can be found on the road sides that have been hauled on heavy in the winter.

You will also need some choker cables and or chains to tow with. Cables work better as they have a little give and they don't seem to wear through when dragging over harder surfaces rocks pavement ect.

One note about the truck you are going to use. I hope it is note to nice. Sooner or latter a log will hang up and you may find your truck going sideways into a tree or stump. A truck is not as maneuverable as a tractor. One other thing about the chains is if you only have one set, put them on the rear tires first and then the second set on the front. I was pulling a bundle of smaller logs to the landing once with chains on the front axle only and the bundle got hung up. So I backed up dumped the clutch the truck launched forward the logs did not move the front axle let out a big clank. Long story short front axle spider gears cost me about 350 bucks. It seems that when the chains are only on the front you are pulling everything with only the front axle and that puts lots of stress on it.I never run chains on the front only now a have not had any problems with the driveline since.

Hope this helps


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## FJH (Apr 9, 2008)

A good used tractor would be a good investment for what your doing ,not just for logging but for around the place period!i have a bucket also for the back end it doubles as a wheel barrow too!Two pins to pull the forks are off the bucket is on. You work at it with your pu ect for a bit then get a good used tractor, you'll wonder how you lived with out it,And why you didn't get one sooner.


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## max2cam (Apr 10, 2008)

Peterrum,

The beauty of the Haddon lumbermaker is that you can mill your logs on-site and not have to move them. True, it is slower and more labor intensive than a mill, but the results are pretty good once you get the knack.

What I have developed is a homebuild tripod with a chain and come-along that I use to lift the log so I can place sleepers under it for milling purposes. That's my entire setup in a nutshell. Again, this is all on-site back in the woods using a 90cc Solo with 24" bar & Haddon type lumbermaker (Chinese copy). 

My entire investment was around $750.


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## peterrum (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks Max, is there any chance that you could post photos of your tripod in action. What is the size of your come along and the size of the logs you are lifting.


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## slabmaster (Apr 11, 2008)

That's the beauty of an alaskan,you can do it where you drop the tree and haul the boards out with your truck and stack in your barn.That's what i do. Here is some lumber i milled this winter in the woods.


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## slabmaster (Apr 11, 2008)

I do use a honda 200sx and a wagon to bring the boards to the barn,as it's smaller and can go right to the tree to haul everything needed.


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## slabmaster (Apr 11, 2008)

I used the same setup you have to mill that wood.A 395 & alaskan mill.


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## max2cam (Apr 11, 2008)

peterrum,

I have a photo of my tripod unit somewhere but not right at hand. I'll look.

Tripod is not fancy and cost nothing to build. It's made from peeled balsam fir poles bolted together at the top with a piece of threaded rod. A short piece of chain is wrapped around the top and the come-along hooks to that.

I simply roll the mill log over a logging chain, wrap the chain around the log and hook it, position the tripod over the log, then extend the come-along down, hook it up, and then ratchet the log up off the ground. Then place a sleeper under it and then lower the log.

The come-along is my older smaller one (I'll check size). The biggest log I have lifted was about 24" dia. BUT, on the heavy logs I lift one end at a time. The tripod is light enough that I can drag/carry it into the woods. Before that I tried various methods of rolling the logs up ramps onto sleepers, but the tripod method is FAR superior. In fact, this was just an experimental version but it has worked perfectly.

PS: I didn't know the Alaska Mill was portable enough to haul into the woods to the tree. That's good too.


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## peterrum (Apr 11, 2008)

You know Max its funny the way you describe your system. Sitting over here in Africa right now I have alot of time on my hands to think about these various methods for my system and i had briefly thought about a tripod but it never went much further than that. The reason why is that I had never read of a tripod method on this website and there were alot of other alternatives mentioned. You may have mentioned it on another post but there is so much information here it is impossible to read it all. Thanks for the description you provided and for me, who is a little monetarily challenged and not in a rush I like what you have described. I think for those of us who will work on site where the tree falls we want to have a system which is both economical, extremely portable, reasonably fast, safe, and easy on the back. From the sounds of it you have that and it works for you. Its worthy of further exploration for me. Pics would be great if you can find them so good luck digging through your material.
Slabmaster, are you happy with your setup? I haven't had a chance to use mine yet so its nice to hear from someone that has something similar. Nice wood you have stacked. Tell us about it.


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## slabmaster (Apr 11, 2008)

I am real happy with my set-up. I wouldn't have it anyother way.I keep my saw and mill in the house.When i'm ready to mill,i go out to the barn and grab my honda 200sx with pull cart and bring to the house.I then load it with my sawmill,gas,oil and a bucket of small supplys.Earplugs,nails,wedges,baroil bottle,hammer,etc. I then drive back to the barn and pick up my rail guide a 2x6 16 ft.Then off to the woods.Once there,i mill the tree i cut down the day before and load the lumber on the cart and drive back to the barn and where i sticker them.i then drive to another barn where a compressor is waiting to blow off the saw& mill and me.I then drive it back to the house and put away the saw& mill.


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## slabmaster (Apr 11, 2008)

Here is some more shots of my back property and woods i mill in.The last picture is some dead ash i milled afew weeks ago.It was dry when i stacked it,so it wasn't stickered.Most the wood i mill is 16 ft. long and 4/4 and 8/4 lumber ou to 24".All of it was hauled out with that little wagon from where i dropped the tree.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Apr 11, 2008)

max2cam said:


> Tripod is not fancy and cost nothing to build. It's made from peeled balsam fir poles bolted together at the top with a piece of threaded rod. A short piece of chain is wrapped around the top and the come-along hooks to that.



I tried a setup like that for pulling some small stumps. It was easy to put together. Just drill some half inch holes, toss in a few fender washers, a couple of threaded rods, and some nuts. Didn't take long.

I did use it to pull a bunch of smaller stuff, then I tried a 3 incher. 

Bent my half inch threaded rod in short order.

Didn't impress the stump one little bit.


Still, I know it would lift quite a bit. Just not an oak sapling that happens to still be anchored.


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## max2cam (Apr 12, 2008)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> I tried a setup like that for pulling some small stumps. It was easy to put together. Just drill some half inch holes, toss in a few fender washers, a couple of threaded rods, and some nuts. Didn't take long.
> 
> I did use it to pull a bunch of smaller stuff, then I tried a 3 incher.
> 
> ...



I've used a come-along attached to a tree to uproot oak grubs (small trees) and they are a #####! Most of the time is spent digging and chopping at their roots and then digging some more. 

Lifting logs with the tripod, the come-along (1-2 ton model) groans a little, but the tripod has yet to whimper, and it's made of mere balsam poles. If it ever breaks I'll upgrade to spruce or red pine poles.


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