# Dolmar 421problem



## woodbutcher56 (Feb 19, 2017)

I have a ps421 bought new in Nov.2015. Always kept clean .I run 93 octane sunoco gas with Husky oil. I really like the saw have cut around 6 chords of firewood with it without a problem . I was cutting some oak tree tops Friday and the saw all at once would not idle down, didn't stay at full throttle but high enough the chain was spinning pretty fast. I shut it down and checked for obstruction in the linkage checked to see the fuel filter was still in place. Still had 1/2 tank of fuel.??? Restarted still wouldn't idle . I let the saw sit for an hour (used a different saw) and restarted it did idle then but kind of rough. I took the saw home cleaned it up the spark plug recently replaced was a gray/ white color! I called the dealer he said to run the low idle screw in and back to original position a couple times and try it again. I'm concerned about an air leak somewhere and don't want to trash a piston. I really like this saw!! Anyone else had any problems with their Dolmar.


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## merc_man (Feb 19, 2017)

Not a good color for a spark plug.
Id pull muff and have a look at piston and cylinder and go from ther. Mabe pressure vac test too to be on the safe side for air leaks.

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## pro94lt (Feb 19, 2017)

Pull the muffler and look the 421 muffler is easy... take a picture have you been cutting in realy cold weather and when this happened it was warm?


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 19, 2017)

I did pull the muffler piston looks good. I should add when I changed the plug before the idle issues to was dark and a little wet. I also changed the fuel filter yesterday. I live in Northwest Ohio I have cut in the cold ,not real cold, the temp was in the 50's when the problem occurred. The dealer said in ten years he had never had to tear down a 421 . He seems to think there may be a little something in the carb


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## CoreyB (Feb 19, 2017)

I would be very careful and leery on running it. I would also look in the carb and see if something is jamming the butterfly party open.


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## sugarbush (Feb 19, 2017)

sounds like an air leak. the dealer should have told you to bring it in to his shop. the saw is under warranty.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 19, 2017)

Anyone who repairs saws is it safe to run this saw to see if the problem is cleared, ie...obstruction in the carb . How long does it take to cause damage if there is an air leak.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 19, 2017)

Sorry sugarbush I was in the process of posting when you replied. I talked to 2 separate dealers one told me to richen the low idle siad he doubted it was an air leak since the saw is only a year old. The other told me what I posted earlier. I was going to put the saw in some wood today to see if the problem is still present. I will however take advice from you folks if you think it's not safe to run it I'll take it to the dealer tomorrow.


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## backhoelover (Feb 19, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Anyone who repairs saws is it safe to run this saw to see if the problem is cleared, ie...obstruction in the carb . How long does it take to cause damage if there is an air leak.



depends on the size of the air leak 
here is service manual to help with saw


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## Conquistador3 (Feb 19, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I talked to 2 separate dealers one told me to richen the low idle siad he doubted it was an air leak since the saw is only a year old.



Apparently said dealers have never heard of defective parts and/or assembly. It happens even to the best and that's why we pay an extra for warranty. 

One very important thing when you take the saw to the dealership: when you'll go pick up the saw, have them write down and sign a brief description of what they've done. If there's truly an air leak and the piston gets scored they won't be able to blame it on you "fiddling" with the carburetor.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 19, 2017)

I should mention also that the saw has always started in a couple pulls . I inspected once again no damage visible through the exhaust port . I started the saw and it started easily 2 pulls. I haven't tried it in the wood yet so I don't know how it will be once it is warm / hot from use. I'm leery of running it in the wood now.


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## sugarbush (Feb 19, 2017)

take it to a dealer and don't try to fix it yourself. the dealer shouldn't have told you to mess with carb. if it is an air leak you may be able to tune it out but thats a band aid fix. will eventually get worse.


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## CoreyB (Feb 19, 2017)

An air leek can cause catastrophic damage in seconds. Tell your dealer to test it or you will take it to someone who will and forward any bills for him to try and pay through a warranty mess.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 19, 2017)

Thanks for the input !! To all of you. I haven't touched the carb as the manual says not to . I haven't run the saw except to start it on the bench just to see if it would idle . . . I'm going to take the saw to the dealer I bought it from tomorrow. He told me on the phone it was likely something floating around in the carb so I don't know if he'll test it for air leaks. I'll be sure and express my concerns and try to get everything documented. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks Again


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## CoreyB (Feb 19, 2017)

It is also a plus if they just dismiss or over look an air leak that later causes a failure it is their fault for not doing their due diligence for an issue you brought to them. At least that is how I see it.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 20, 2017)

Dropped the saw off at the dealer this morning they said they had contacted Dolmar via email and Dolmar verified the saw is under warranty (I purchased it there on 11/5/15) and gave them the go ahead on repairs. We'll see how it goes!


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 20, 2017)

Local Dolmar dealer tells me he's having trouble getting parts and saws due to Makita takeover. Any dealers here having problems?


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## sugarbush (Feb 20, 2017)

no problems here, do you know what parts he needs to fix your saw? or whats wrong with it?


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## backhoelover (Feb 20, 2017)

@fordf150 he is a dolmar dealer


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 20, 2017)

Just dropped it off today I don't know what it needs yet. I don't know the dealer very well just trying to see if I'm getting good info from him. I appreciate the info. Hoping not to be without my saw too long !! Oak tree tops down the road for next year's heat!


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 22, 2017)

Missing the 421!! Hauled the 455 Rancher to the woods yesterday cut a couple hours. It's considerably heavier faster in the cut though! Has me longing for a light 50cc saw that's strong and fast in the wood!


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 24, 2017)

Just got off the phone with the Dolmar dealer, he said he checked for air leaks and found none. He said he cleaned the carb and didn't see any obstructions but there could have been. He said the piston and cylinder look good. He said he retuned the saw low stayed the same 1 1/2 out the high was 1 3/4 out before 2 1/2 out now. That seems like a lot to me . They ran the saw a couple times for 15 -20 minutes with no idle problems. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. Hopefully all is well. I'll keep you posted.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 26, 2017)

I took the saw to the woods today , ran a tank of gas through it , no idle issues. The saw was however hitting the Rev limiter at wot in the wood. Not every cut but frequently .Is that because it's tuned too rich on the high??? Is it a problem? I don't have the tool for adjusting the high. Before the idle issue I was contemplating removing the cat, I'm a little leery now , maybe wait and he sure there are no more issues.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 26, 2017)

Took the saw to the woods today , ran a tank of gas through it cutting some oak. No idle issues. The saw did however hit the rev limiter at wot in the cut, not every cut but frequently. Could this be caused by the high speed being too rich? The dealer said it was between 1/2 and 3/4 turn out from original setting. Is this a problem? I don't have the tool to adjust the high.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 26, 2017)

I was thinking of removing the cat before the idle issue now I'm a little leery since there was an issue and the saw is under warranty .I think I'll wait and make sure there are no more problems.


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## sugarbush (Feb 26, 2017)

if hitting the limiter its to lean. take it back to the dealer. take a stick of wood with you and show him what your concerned about.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 26, 2017)

Well that's what I thought. The dealer said when he retuned the high was out 3/4 turn more than the original setting and the saw was not hitting the limiter then. I'm wondering what's up with that????


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## Chris-PA (Feb 26, 2017)

How do you know it was hitting the rev limiter?


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 26, 2017)

Maybe I'm confused about what I'm hearing. I'll be back in the woods tomorrow . Maybe I'll make a short video and see if I can figure out how to post it. The dealer said he tuned it to spec. I can't believe it's too lean being 3/4 turn out from factory setting. I'll check in tomorrow afternoon. Thanks all for your input!!


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## birddogtg (Feb 26, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Missing the 421!! Hauled the 455 Rancher to the woods yesterday cut a couple hours. It's considerably heavier faster in the cut though! Has me longing for a light 50cc saw that's strong and fast in the wood!


I have a ported 550xp that's in real nice shape that I may sell.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 26, 2017)

It's not that easy to tell the difference between the sound of 4-stoking and that of the rev limiter.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

Back to the woods today the saw was not hitting the limiter just back and forth between clean and 4 stroke. The high idle problem came back after running for about 40 minutes in some oak. Ran a whole tank of gas through it yesterday with no problems. When I opened the gas cap to check the fuel , about 1/4 tank, it hissed and I'm not sure if it was sucking air or releasing pressure . Should have been paying closer attention! I called the dealer he said he would call Dolmar and told me to bring the saw back. I made a short video of the high idle ,not sure how to post it. Gmail would not let me email it to the dealer file is too big.


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## sugarbush (Feb 27, 2017)

look in the opening under the primer bulb to look at the red fuel line to make sure it hasn't slide loose. you'l need a flashlite.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

Thanks! Looked , there is a yellow and orange line both appear to be where they belong.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

Just a side note. This problem didn't start until I changed the spark plug?? I don't see how that could have anything to do with it. Maybe a coincidence! Could it be getting warm and pulling air from around the crush washer on the plug????


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## merc_man (Feb 27, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Just a side note. This problem didn't start until I changed the spark plug?? I don't see how that could have anything to do with it. Maybe a coincidence! Could it be getting warm and pulling air from around the crush washer on the plug????


Iv had a few saws leak at the spark plug while pressure vac testing and never caused no running isues.

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## sugarbush (Feb 27, 2017)

the dealer will have to figure it out. does sound like an air leak. the dealer may have just checked pressure and not vacuum for leak test.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm at a loss! I don't know what to think! Something ain't right!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

How about the fuel pick up line collapsing would / could that cause intermittent problems?


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## sugarbush (Feb 27, 2017)

if fuel line collapsed it would accelerate a few seconds then quit. will it idle to fast with a cold engine or have to get good an warm.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

It's only happened when it's warm .


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## MountainHigh (Feb 27, 2017)

excessive hissing and pressure in Gas tank *might suggest vapour lock, but usually only on a very hot day.

I had vapour lock on my EA4300(dolmar 421) last summer after bucking hardwood non-stop in heat, *prior *to removing the cat! Saw would not start and run properly until I let it cool down for 20 minutes.

These little saws with the cat still in get pretty warm if you run them with no mercy.

Just a thought.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

I appreciate the input . It's not that warm here and I hadn't even used a tank of gas. I cut all day with it this past fall when it was pretty warm with no issues. As far as the cat goes I'd like to get rid of it ,,I'm glad I didn't now. Maybe after we get this cleared up. Maybe I should wait until the warranty expires. Thanks again for the input!!


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## MountainHigh (Feb 27, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I appreciate the input . It's not that warm here and I hadn't even used a tank of gas. I cut all day with it this past fall when it was pretty warm with no issues. As far as the cat goes I'd like to get rid of it ,,I'm glad I didn't now. Maybe after we get this cleared up. Maybe I should wait until the warranty expires. Thanks again for the input!!


Ya if you've got unsolved problems, I'd wait to remove the cat while the warranty is still valid.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

Well I'm taking the 421 back to the dealer tomorrow. Hope we get this squared away soon! It's 45 min one way . Question for those of you in the know. Is it common to turn out the high 3/4 turn and not change the low?? Seems like my other saws required a little tweaking on both. Here's one more thought ! If you have an air leak on an auto tune saw will it keep adjusting until you scorch the piston? Anyway I'll keep you all posted on the 421. Wish me luck!


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## pro94lt (Feb 27, 2017)

My 421 always hisses when I open the fuel cap by the way.


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## woodbutcher56 (Feb 27, 2017)

I think mine does too . Grasping at straws I guess.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 1, 2017)

Dropped the saw off at the dealer again this morning. I showed them a short video I made of the saw idling too fast while in the woods. They were scratching their heads???? Said a B&S rep that hooked them up with Dolmar 10 years ago would be there today they were going to quiz him. Told me not to worry they would figure it out.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 1, 2017)

According to the dealer the Briggs rep is a small engine guru hopefully he was able to provide some insight.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

While searching for info on the 421 on this site I ran across a thread 'replacing my 421' it seems a member ' gearjunkie' had three 421's all with high idle issues. Anyone here familiar with this member I would like to know how / if they resolved those high idle issues. It appears I'm not the only one I wonder how many more out there are plagued with this problem!!!!


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## reddogrunner (Mar 3, 2017)

I've had this on mine in the last year. Bought it from an auction. Just keep running it, that's my MO. I am going to try and remove the CAT myself to see if this helps. Mine is definitely not under warranty. LOL


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

Just got an email from the dealer . He said the B&S rep called a "huge dealer who sells over 200 saws a year" they said they had it happen 1 time, it was the internal fuel line that runs from the filter to the top of the tank. My dealer said he has some ordered will have them next week. I'm hoping this fixes it. We shall see! I ran a whole tank of gas through the saw with no issues the day before the past episode??


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

reddogrunner said:


> I've had this on mine in the last year. Bought it from an auction. Just keep running it, that's my MO. I am going to try and remove the CAT myself to see if this helps. Mine is definitely not under warranty. LOL


Part no. for the fuel line is 195 114 050 maybe this will help you.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

Apparently they think this is the problem because it only happens with under 1/2 tank of fuel. But... it also only happens when it has been run for 45 min or so , and is warm, which burns fuel . After the saw sat for an hour or so ,after the first episode, it started and idled fine. I'm hoping they are right and the fuel line works but I'm somewhat skeptical.


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## reddogrunner (Mar 3, 2017)

Exact symptoms I have. I'll watch the thread let me know if this fixes it.


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## MountainHigh (Mar 3, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Apparently they think this is the problem because it only happens with under 1/2 tank of fuel. But... it also only happens when it has been run for 45 min or so , and is warm, which burns fuel . After the saw sat for an hour or so ,after the first episode, it started and idled fine. I'm hoping they are right and the fuel line works but I'm somewhat skeptical.



hmmmm ... did they say the fuel line collapses/pinches under heat or ..... ?


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

They didn't say in the email. I'm going to call and ask.


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## reddogrunner (Mar 3, 2017)

I just point the girl in a safe direction and keep cutting. I try and treat the bar as always live when I cut or carry, etc. Kinda like the business end of a gun barrel.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 3, 2017)

If the fuel line were cut or broken off in the tank it would begin running out of fuel if held in the normal orientation. I can see that it might cause a lean idle and make the idle rpms go up, but how would it work properly when cutting?


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

It's definitely not broken off I changed the fuel filter when it first started acting up. There was no obvious damage. I didn't do a cluster we inspection but nothing noticeable. I don't know why it would run right after cooling down.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

Close inspection NOT cluster !!! Smart phone my a*!#


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## sugarbush (Mar 3, 2017)

what the dealer said is interesting, did he say why the intank fuel line?


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

The way I understand it the B&S rep visited my dealer(he's the guy that hooked my dealer up with Dolmar 10 years ago) my dealer quized the rep the rep called another , in his words huge dealer that sells over 200 saws a year, that dealer said they had 1 saw a 421 come in with the same problem and the culprit was the in tank fuel line .


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## CoreyB (Mar 3, 2017)

Did anyone mention some earlier models needed an oring on the fuel line to keep them from popping off.

Edit! Sorry my phone just updated I see this has been adressed.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 3, 2017)

To make the idle speed rise you have to either change the L mixture to closer to the the max idle speed setting (which implies it must have started somewhere else), or increase the idle air flow. I suppose something that changes the ignition timing could change the idle speed too, but that seems like a long shot. Starting there, if in fact the H operation is unchanged, then you have to come up with things that only effect L. 

The first thing I'd do is see where the L mixture is set - how far from max best idle is it and on which side? Then I'd look at the throttle linkage and operation of the carb throttle shaft. Last, I'd look at fuel lines - but I'm not sure how a fuel line problem effects idle when the fuel flow rate is low and does not effect higher fuel flow rates.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> To make the idle speed rise you have to either change the L mixture to closer to the the max idle speed setting (which implies it must have started somewhere else), or increase the idle air flow. I suppose something that changes the ignition timing could change the idle speed too, but that seems like a long shot. Starting there, if in fact the H operation is unchanged, then you have to come up with things that only effect L.
> 
> The first thing I'd do is see where the L mixture is set - how far from max best idle is it and on which side? Then I'd look at the throttle linkage and operation of the carb throttle shaft. Last, I'd look at fuel lines - but I'm not sure how a fuel line problem effects idle when the fuel flow rate is low and does not effect higher fuel flow rates.


I appreciate your help. I seriously doubt the fuel line will cure the problem. They base that on the fact that fuel has always been 1/2 tank or less. I believe the fuel level is there because that's how much the saw used to reach the temperature where the problem starts. In the thread from 'gearjunky' he stated that if he pushed the primer bulb during high idle the saw would idle properly ,briefly.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

Ambient air temp the first occurrence was warmer than the second occurrence and the first time the saw had nearly 1/2 tank of fuel the second time a little over 1/4. Colder temp longer run time to reach the same temp. Coincidence maybe??? The confusing part is I ran a whole tank of gas through it with no issues in between the two occurrences?? If the saw had at I'd swear the problem was electronic in nature.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

Both times the problem went away after the saw sat and cooled off!


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## CoreyB (Mar 3, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Both times the problem went away after the saw sat and cooled off!


Hmm coils are notorious for causing trouble while hot and being fine cool.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 3, 2017)

I thought of that , but if the coil was breaking down wouldn't the saw be rich?


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## Sepia (Mar 3, 2017)

Just a thought, but possible that the impulse line is leaking slightly after saw heats up, and is not providing enough signal/pulse to the diaphram at idle to feed the carb, but does have a strong enough pulse at WOT?


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## CoreyB (Mar 3, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I thought of that , but if the coil was breaking down wouldn't the saw be rich?


I have seen coils do weird things that make little sense and can be hard to put a finger on.


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## MountainHigh (Mar 3, 2017)

might be the vent valve - hot saw with sticky valve could feel like vapour lock.

check this thread out . . .
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/dolmar-421-help.291731/


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 4, 2017)

Just spoke with the dealer on the phone he has not verified that there is a problem with the fuel line. He said they have to separate the tank from the saw to replace the line and didn't want to leave my saw in pieces on the bench until the part comes in. They are going off of the previous experience from the other dealer. So at this point it's just speculation.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 4, 2017)

CJ Brown said:


> Just a thought, but possible that the impulse line is leaking slightly after saw heats up, and is not providing enough signal/pulse to the diaphram at idle to feed the carb, but does have a strong enough pulse at WOT?


This makes more sense to me than the bad fuel line .


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 4, 2017)

Just have to wait and see! Dealer said it would be the middle of next week for the part.


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## sugarbush (Mar 4, 2017)

sounds like there has to be an air leak for your saw to idle so fast that the chain runs. your dealer can check the fuel system for an air leak by pulling the line out of the tank and pressurize it. but if he cant do that just remove the in tank line and replace with a piece of fuel line. his warehouse may not have that line in stock anyway, mine don't, its on back order. if your saw starts to idle fast after running about a half tank of fuel and then will run ok after it cools down and you didn't add more fuel i don't think its your fuel line. i wonder if your dealer done a proper leak down test because your saw symptom is an air leak, the fuel line is what i would have checked first then the engine, which would have included the impulse.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 4, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> sounds like there has to be an air leak for your saw to idle so fast that the chain runs. your dealer can check the fuel system for an air leak by pulling the line out of the tank and pressurize it. but if he cant do that just remove the in tank line and replace with a piece of fuel line. his warehouse may not have that line in stock anyway, mine don't, its on back order. if your saw starts to idle fast after running about a half tank of fuel and then will run ok after it cools down and you didn't add more fuel i don't think its your fuel line. i wonder if your dealer done a proper leak down test because your saw symptom is an air leak, the fuel line is what i would have checked first then the engine, which would have included the impulse.


I totally agree! I wonder too about the leak test. No way for me to know. He said he did and cleaned the carb and retuned. The saw has started and idled properly after cooling down each time with no added fuel. I'm at the mercy of the dealer I guess.
Thanks for your input ,greatly appreciated. 
Would I be out of line to ask for documentation of everything the dealer has done ? Fordf150 said they would be glad to check it out if the locals can't figure it out. I would just have to ship the saw.


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## sugarbush (Mar 4, 2017)

Not sure how to tell you to approach this problem with your dealer unless you have a good relationship with him. But for him to just guess what's wrong and replacing that line is a little foolish. If that doesn't work, then what? If you do have a good relationship with him, somehow make a suggestion to pressurize that fuel line to check for an air leak, and if there isn't one, I don't see any reason for replacing it. I've sold quite a few 421/EA 4300's and have never had a leak in a fuel line. (I have had a few fuel lines slide off in the cold weather and was an easy fix.) As far as documentation, I don't think that will do you much good. I think Fordf150 is in Ohio so I don't think it would cost too much to ship it to him and back. Makita may just pay for your shipping fees if that's what it takes to get your saw fixed. Keep us posted on this in case I'm wrong about an air leak. LOL!


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## 7sleeper (Mar 4, 2017)

Just simple speculation, but maybe the fuel line has a pinhole in the "middle" and as soon as the fuel drops below a certain level the problems evolve. 

So it is too bad you didn't refill the saw when the problems started to see if they went away when the tank was full again. 

7


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 4, 2017)

Fuel was at different levels each time and after sitting and cooling off the saw idled fine with no fuel added.


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## dugide (Mar 4, 2017)

that was answered in post 78.


7sleeper said:


> Just simple speculation, but maybe the fuel line has a pinhole in the "middle" and as soon as the fuel drops below a certain level the problems evolve.
> 
> So it is too bad you didn't refill the saw when the problems started to see if they went away when the tank was full again.
> 
> 7


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 5, 2017)

Sugarbush
Let me pick your brain.
Since the saw only acts up after being run, is it possible that a leak test might not detect a leak on a cold saw??
Would an air leak cause intermittent problems?


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## sugarbush (Mar 5, 2017)

The way you described the problem, I would suspect an air leak on a crank shaft seal where it seals onto the crank shaft (inner part of the seal that has a spring in it). With a minor leak there, it may only show up after running for a period of time. You could tune that out by opening up the low speed jet a little, but that would be just a band aid effect. But that would also tell you that the saw is getting too much air from somewhere. That leak is usually only detected with a vacuum test if its a minor leak. If you test only with pressure, often that part of the seal will not leak. It should show with a test on a cold engine. i would think the dealer would have done both pressure and vacuum.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 6, 2017)

I'm really not sure he did either. Pressure/Vacuum The first time I took the saw in he was pretty confident the problem was something floating around in the carb. I'll ask him again if / when he calls this week .


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## CoreyB (Mar 6, 2017)

In my shop if the carb comes off for any reason then a pressure vac test is required. We also have to do a customer sheet that lists the condition like compression psi, spark plug, fuel tater percentage, spark gap test and max distance ect.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 6, 2017)

Wishing my saw was in your shop!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 6, 2017)

I did a ton of research before buying the 421 really seemed to be a good dependable saw. Only a couple dealers near me. I chose the one I thought would be the best to work with. Could be I made 2 bad choices!!!


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## dugide (Mar 6, 2017)

your kidding, right?


CoreyB said:


> In my shop if the carb comes off for any reason then a pressure vac test is required. We also have to do a customer sheet that lists the condition like compression psi, spark plug, fuel tater percentage, spark gap test and max distance ect.


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## CoreyB (Mar 6, 2017)

dugide said:


> your kidding, right?


No why would I kid? Doesn't every shop do that? How else can you ensure giving the customer their equipment in the best working order. It also helps to be able find possible future problems before they cause more damage. Are you saying something people don't do a thorough job?


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## merc_man (Mar 6, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I'm really not sure he did either. Pressure/Vacuum The first time I took the saw in he was pretty confident the problem was something floating around in the carb. I'll ask him again if / when he calls this week .


Mabe he should put a new carb on if he is so sure its the carb.

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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 6, 2017)

I thought it was strange ,when I took the saw back the second time he mentioned he had not charged Dolmar for any labor. He said he hadn't really done anything?? At the same time he said he had cleaned the carb and performed a pressure test?? I really don't know what to make of it.


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## merc_man (Mar 6, 2017)

Take it to a different repair shop and have them send him the bill.

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## 7sleeper (Mar 6, 2017)

merc_man said:


> Take it to a different repair shop and have them send him the bill.


Do you call that Trump mentatlity...

7


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 12, 2017)

Hey guys ,brief update. 421 is STILL in the shop dealer says he is still waiting for a fuel line!! Visited Nate at Performance Outdoor Equipment yesterday got a good deal on a new PS 5105 . 2 1/2 hours one way but some nice scenery and took the wife and grandson out to eat. I'll be using the 5105 while waiting on the 421. Got some advice from Nate on where to look for trouble on the 421 and will pass it along to my dealer. If my dealer can't fix it I'll ship it or maybe take it to Nate.


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## CoreyB (Mar 12, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Hey guys ,brief update. 421 is STILL in the shop dealer says he is still waiting for a fuel line!! Visited Nate at Performance Outdoor Equipment yesterday got a good deal on a new PS 5105 . 2 1/2 hours one way but some nice scenery and took the wife and grandson out to eat. I'll be using the 5105 while waiting on the 421. Got some advice from Nate on where to look for trouble on the 421 and will pass it along to my dealer. If my dealer can't fix it I'll ship it or maybe take it to Nate.


Nate is good people. Hope your local shop can get the 421 sorted out.


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## backhoelover (Mar 12, 2017)

i think i remember @fordf150 send me a tech bulletin about that fuel line. i could be wrong


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 15, 2017)

Got an email from my dealer yesterday. He said he replaced the in tank fuel line and tank nipple. He said he would run the saw yesterday and today to make sure it was good to go. He says since it is being turned in as warranty work Dolmar wants to know exactly what fuel , oil and mix ratio I am using???


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## Sepia (Mar 15, 2017)

Looks like a red flag. I would reply verbatim what you owner's manual states you should use for fuel.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 15, 2017)

That's what I was thinking!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 15, 2017)

Update: dealer emailed me today fuel line and tank nipple did not cure the problem. He has now seen the problem first hand.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 15, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Update: dealer emailed me today fuel line and tank nipple did not cure the problem. He has now seen the problem first hand.


Honestly it never made any sense that it would. He's guessing rather than troubleshooting, and the results will be predictable. You should try to take it somewhere competent.


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## Sepia (Mar 15, 2017)

Well sometimes half the battle is getting the dealer to believe you, so I would count that as progress.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 15, 2017)

Question for you all? I'm looking at a parts diagram and it appears there is a nipple threaded into the jug where the impulse line connects. Is this correct? If so could that leak once the saw is hot and cause the saw to starve for gas at idle? Note that the first visit to he shop the dealer said he turned the high adjustment out 3/4 of a turn to tune. That seems like a lot to me, so perhaps it was starving at wot also.


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## sugarbush (Mar 15, 2017)

sounds like he was covering up an air leak by opening up that jet that much. should have been a red flag of an air leak if he thought that was necessary. he should have pressurized the gas line for an air leak instead of just replacing and hoping it works.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 15, 2017)

So we are back again to my initial concern of an air leak. How much time is involved in doing a pressure / vacuum test ?


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## sugarbush (Mar 15, 2017)

about a 1/2 hour. you mentioned he did a pressure check but that type of symptom would usually only show up with a vacuum test. if the chain run on him as he tested the saw he could of opened up the low speed jet to keep the chain from running and that would have indicated an air leak.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 16, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> The way you described the problem, I would suspect an air leak on a crank shaft seal where it seals onto the crank shaft (inner part of the seal that has a spring in it). With a minor leak there, it may only show up after running for a period of time. You could tune that out by opening up the low speed jet a little, but that would be just a band aid effect. But that would also tell you that the saw is getting too much air from somewhere. That leak is usually only detected with a vacuum test if its a minor leak. If you test only with pressure, often that part of the seal will not leak. It should show with a test on a cold engine. i would think the dealer would have done both pressure and vacuum.


 Let's assume this is the problem . What would it cost me to have this repaired at a competent shop.


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## sugarbush (Mar 16, 2017)

you shouldn't have to worry about cost as its under warranty. contact Dolmar/makita and give them a report on your problem and if they will cover shipping cost to another Dealer or replace the saw. 
give nate a call and ask for a phone # for contacting an area rep.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 16, 2017)

I realize AI shouldn't have to pay for it, but the way it sure looks like it's heading in that direction. With the exactly what fuel,oil & ratio deal. It's the classic dance around the warranty. If there is an air leak and they keep running the saw it will likely result in damage to the piston/cylinder. Then comes the old 'bad gas' too bad for you!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm still hoping my dealer stands with me on this. Time will tell.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 16, 2017)

Email from my dealer yesterday morning said he was going to call Makita and would be in touch, haven't heard anything yet. If I don't hear from him today I'll give Nate a call and see if we can get this resolved.


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## Sepia (Mar 16, 2017)

Sounds like he doesn't want to put any time into repairing your saw. Are warranty rates a lot lower than shop rates? I would think a good saw mechanic would have that thing running like a top by now. It seems to be either a fuel delivery issue or an air leak. Seems simple enough to dig into and fix. Especially when the Dolmars are pretty simple in design.


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## CoreyB (Mar 17, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I realize AI shouldn't have to pay for it, but the way it sure looks like it's heading in that direction. With the exactly what fuel,oil & ratio deal. It's the classic dance around the warranty. If there is an air leak and they keep running the saw it will likely result in damage to the piston/cylinder. Then comes the old 'bad gas' too bad for you!!


Confirming fuel is usually part of the warranty process and your dealer asking you is a good thing. Non ethanol premium gas mixed 50:1 wiyh fd rated 2 stroke oil. 
Every business has a bottom line to look at and many people try and take advantage of things. I turn warranty down once a week. Usually because of blatant neglect and no maintenance expecting a warranty means they don't need to do anything during that time frame and if breaks they should get a new one for free. So akin ignore the right questions is just trying to make sure we help the guys who deserve and truly need it.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 17, 2017)

Cory
Manual says " unleaded regular gasoline with an octane value of 89 ( R+M) /2, you can use fuel with a higher octane value. This will not affect the engine." " To lubricate the engine , use a synthetic oil for two -stroke air cooled engines ( quality grade: JASO FD or ISO-L-EGD).". I take very good care of my equipment , my dealer can confirm that and expect nothing for free . I did everything by the book there was a failure and I think it should be taken care of. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes I just hear many stories of manufacturers making a science out of getting around warranty repairs. Hopefully everything works out.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 17, 2017)

Correction : JASO FC or ISO-L-EGD on the oil.


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## sugarbush (Mar 17, 2017)

your dealer seems ok taking advise from another dealer,you could give him a tip from me on a easy test to verify an air leak, if he runs it enough to get the chain to run at idle then open up the low speed jet a bit to see if that brings the idle down. if so he would be adding more fuel to cover up an air leak. then vacuum/pressure check to find the leak. more then likely will find it with vacuum.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 17, 2017)

Thanks I'll mention that the next time I speak with him.


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## CoreyB (Mar 17, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Cory
> Manual says " unleaded regular gasoline with an octane value of 89 ( R+M) /2, you can use fuel with a higher octane value. This will not affect the engine." " To lubricate the engine , use a synthetic oil for two -stroke air cooled engines ( quality grade: JASO FD or ISO-L-EGD).". I take very good care of my equipment , my dealer can confirm that and expect nothing for free . I did everything by the book there was a failure and I think it should be taken care of. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes I just hear many stories of manufacturers making a science out of getting around warranty repairs. Hopefully everything works out.


If am sorry by no means was I trying to imply that you where doing that. I was just sharing as a dealer we have customers that do all the time and it is just a process sometimes to weed out the bad ones so we can be able to help the ones that need it. Forgive me


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 17, 2017)

No hard feelings here! I wasn't implying it was the dealers . The manufacturers are the ones that dictate to the dealers the procedures that need to be followed as well as the ones responsible for approving or declining to cover their products under warranty. The warranty is only as good as the company providing it. The main reason I bought through a dealer is for dealer support secondly to support my dealer. I'd far rather give my hard earned dollars to local shop owner than a big box store!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 17, 2017)

I bought Dolmar because through my research they seemed to be a superior product reasonably priced and highly reliable. I just purchased a new Dolmar 5105 to continue my quest for the big woodpile to keep my family warm during these Ohio winters. While my 421 in the shop. That was a good faith gesture on my part . I hope Dolmar doesn't let me down!!!


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## CoreyB (Mar 17, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I bought Dolmar because through my research they seemed to be a superior product reasonably priced and highly reliable. I just purchased a new Dolmar 5105 to continue my quest for the big woodpile to keep my family warm during these Ohio winters. While my 421 in the shop. That was a good faith gesture on my part . I hope Dolmar doesn't let me down!!!


I work my 6100 and 421 every weekend and know many who use the 6100 in full time tree service with good results. Your 5105 is in the same building as the 6100. I would bet you are just one of the few that experience problems. I hope they take good care of you. I did talk to our local dolmar dealer and he said that warranty has its hurdles and can be a bit of a challenge but he usually has no problem getting something covered that should be.


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## porsche965 (Mar 19, 2017)

At this point the Dealer should just give you a new saw, send that back to Dolmar and be done with this issue.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Good afternoon , brief update.
I hadn't heard from my dealer since the 15th so I emailed he replied waiting on parts??? So I called he said Dolmar told him it was likely the crank seal. He said an air leak didn't show up during pressure / vac test it only occurs when the saw is warm so Dolmar/ Makita told him that crank seal was likely the problem. Now I'm wondering if there has been any damage to the piston or cylinder . Will this lead to problems down the road??


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> The way you described the problem, I would suspect an air leak on a crank shaft seal where it seals onto the crank shaft (inner part of the seal that has a spring in it). With a minor leak there, it may only show up after running for a period of time. You could tune that out by opening up the low speed jet a little, but that would be just a band aid effect. But that would also tell you that the saw is getting too much air from somewhere. That leak is usually only detected with a vacuum test if its a minor leak. If you test only with pressure, often that part of the seal will not leak. It should show with a test on a cold engine. i would think the dealer would have done both pressure and vacuum.


It appears this is what Makita / Dolmar thinks the problem is ,dealer said they did the pressure and vacuum test and it didn't show up.


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## porsche965 (Mar 21, 2017)

Have you asked to exchange your saw for a new one? I sure would try.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I haven't asked but I may. At least they should let me trade it in on a new one. I doubt they'll offer me much on a trade. I'm not sure I want another one at this point.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I know there has been at least a tank and a half of gas run through the saw since this problem occurred. I have no idea how much they have run it beyond that. How much would you have to run it to cause damage???


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## Sepia (Mar 21, 2017)

Is there any way you can be there when they pull the cylinder off? I would ask to see the piston/cylinder when it is apart, and possibly take a couple pics at the same time.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

It's 42 miles one way to the dealer. I could ask him to take pics but I don't want to make him mad. Same with asking him if I could be there. I don't want to insult the guy he pretty much holds all the cards on this one.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I guess I'm going to have to trust him on this . Hopefully he won't compromise his integrity by putting it back together damaged. I'm afraid however it will always be in the back of my mind.


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## Sepia (Mar 21, 2017)

I see what you are saying, and yeah that's a bit of a trip. I don't know your dealer, but if it was me, I would be as accommodating to you as possible. It wouldn't take him long to take a pic, as obviously you have a vested interest in getting the saw back in good condition.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I really don't understand what caused this failure if it is indeed the crank seal. I've always used good fresh gas approved name brand oil properly mixed. Never abused the saw. I ALWAYS warm it up before cutting.
I'm really at a loss here???? Should I be running a 14" bar instead of a 16"???


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## Sepia (Mar 21, 2017)

I doubt if the 16" bar has anything to do with the running issues.


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

if your dealer had done a vacuum check it would have shown up. dolmar/makita should have told him it was probably a crank seal because of saw symptom (or fuel line leak in the tank). i believe replacing the seals will fix it if he gets them in correctly, but if no pressure/vac check after installation then he wouldn't know for sure. good luck.


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## CoreyB (Mar 21, 2017)

And a photo emailed to you shouldn't be a problem.


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

actually your dealer could ask makita to replace the saw rather then fix it because of repair cost.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> if your dealer had done a vacuum check it would have shown up. dolmar/makita should have told him it was probably a crank seal because of saw symptom (or fuel line leak in the tank). i believe replacing the seals will fix it if he gets them in correctly, but if no pressure/vac check after installation then he wouldn't know for sure. good luck.


 So you're saying he did not do a pressure /vac test the first time it was in the shop?


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

What would be the best way to approach him about getting Makita to replace the saw? When we spoke on the phone he wasn't thrilled to be talking to me. When I identified myself his first words were "I sent you an email" which he did it said " waiting on parts"I have been nothing but polite and patient throughout this whole process. I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated but now that goes both ways!


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## porsche965 (Mar 21, 2017)

I'd try Makita direct myself. And I wouldn't buy another thing from a dealer that didn't look out for me.

Ford150 is a member here. Great guy, PM him and see what he suggests.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I find it troubling that someone on the phone is troubleshooting the saw instead of the mechanic! Doesn't make any sense at all to me!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I have been in touch with Nate. Bought a saw from him on the 11th we spoke at length on the issue and I'm sure he would take good care of me . He suggested however that I should give my dealer a chance to fix the saw in order to maintain a good relationship . Maybe he doesn't want to get in the middle of this ! Can't blame him really!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I really thought my dealer would look out for me , maybe since he's a small shop he's at their (Makita) mercy.


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

i called makita on replacement on that saw, ( i posed as the repair shop). They said they wouldn't replace the saw, that it has to be repaired. So, I guess your shop is going to get some experience. They,re probably not to hip on fixing it. Good luck!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i called makita on replacement on that saw, ( i posed as the repair shop). They said they wouldn't replace the saw, that it has to be repaired. So, I guess your shop is going to get some experience. They,re probably not to hip on fixing it. Good luck!!


Wow! That could be the kiss of death for me if that gets back to my dealer! Not Cool!!!!


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

you wasn't mentioned, i said it was my customer. that i was working on a ps 421 not YOUR saw.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Ok well thanks for checking it out for me. I appreciate the good intentions!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

You know it's a damn shame things are how they are today. These big companies don't give a rat ass about the individual consumer it's all about turning that big profit. I mean nothing to Makita they couldn't care less about my saw troubles. They don't really care much about small volume dealers like the father and son shop I am dealing with. Those guys are probably not making much on my repairs and it's taking their time away from more lucrative work. Looking at the Big picture all involved are having a bad day except Makita they throw a few parts at the dealer and pay him a pittance to install them while I am without my equipment. It's not just Makita it's across the board. Sad thing the way the world is today!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I'd be willing to bet if the shop I'm dealing with sold a couple hundred saws a year Makita would've had a new saw there the first week.


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## CoreyB (Mar 21, 2017)

It can be a fine line to dance at times. As I said before they may just be jumping through the hoops that makita has to ensure things are done correctly without excess parts and expenses (which sometimes end up costing more). You could always pose the question this way to your dealer. Sense you (the dealer) is having to invest so many man hours on this saw wouldn't it be more cost effective for makita to just replace it?


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## dugide (Mar 21, 2017)

don't think that's makita's fault your saw is still not fixed.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> It can be a fine line to dance at times. As I said before they may just be jumping through the hoops that makita has to ensure things are done correctly without excess parts and expenses (which sometimes end up costing more). You could always pose the question this way to your dealer. Sense you (the dealer) is having to invest so many man hours on this saw wouldn't it be more cost effective for makita to just replace it?


I did talk to him he said Makita says fix it.I'll call when it's done. I even asked him if he would take the saw in on a trade for a new one. He didn't even reply to that.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

dugide said:


> don't think that's makita's fault your saw is still not fixed.


It seems my dealer has to get permission from Makita for everything he does and then wait for parts from them.


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## porsche965 (Mar 21, 2017)

You need a new Dealer.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Sugarbush
You called this you seem pretty sharp!
Let me ask you this . What would cause that seal to go? The saw does not have enough time on it to just wear that out. I don't work on saws but I do work on vehicles and other things . You can throw parts at stuff and make it work but if you don't correct the cause the problems will reoccur. If my dealer replaced the seal and there is an underlying problem I may well be looking at the same issues 6 months or a year from now . Then of course it's out of warranty and all my problem.w hat do I have to look forward to? The hell of it is I can't even sell the saw in good conscience! I don't believe in dumping my problems on some poor unsuspecting soul! BAD carma!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

porsche965 said:


> You need a new Dealer.


I think you are right!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

I really think that Makita s motive is keep it going until the warranty has expired! 8 months is all they need.


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## cuinrearview (Mar 21, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Let me ask you this . What would cause that seal to go?


If you get a chance to look at a crank seal you'll understand. Most likely during assembly something got crooked, or a burr on the crank or case.


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

i would guess the reason your seal failed ( if that is the problem) could be installation mistake or seal flaw to mention a couple. or with that saw could be bearing related. (bearing/seal combo), which make's the repair much more difficult. i should add that bearing related would be unusual. (that sounded scary, lol.)


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i would guess the reason your seal failed ( if that is the problem) could be installation mistake or seal flaw to mention a couple. or with that saw could be bearing related. (bearing/seal combo), which make's the repair much more difficult. i should add that bearing related would be unusual. (that sounded scary, lol.)


If that is the problem? Care to elaborate on that statement? I really hope it's not bearings!! If it is there goes another week or more waiting on parts!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

What are we talking in labor fees for seal replacement? I'm trying to wrap my head around how this is good business as opposed to just replacing the saw . I guess if it is improper installation that is the culprit I can understand. If that's the case let's hope that doesn't happen again!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Is the 421 prone to bearing failure? Everyone I talked to before my purchase and all research indicated this was a highly reliable saw top performer in its class.


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

it doesn't matter if it is a bearing because that saw has to be torn down to the crank to fix a seal. the seals are bearing/seal combination. both side's should be replaced even if only one side is leaking. sounds worse then it really is. (i've sold many 421's and never replaced bearing/seal) labor charge can very a lot depending on a shops labor fee.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Man this just keeps getting better!!!! I sure hope they send both and not try to cheap out on the repair. I would be dumb in my opinion not to do both while it's apart. What about cost for labor? This is a $320 saw .


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Am I going to end up with a good properly functioning saw when this is over? Or am I likely be plagued with problems from here on out?


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## CoreyB (Mar 21, 2017)

Many have and will testify to the reliability and build quality to the 421 and many Dolmars however with any manufacturing errors happen and sometimes pieces and parts just fail. Something most manufacturers try and avoid but it is inevitable. You unfortunately may have gotten that one unit.


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## sugarbush (Mar 21, 2017)

i don't know enough about your shop to answer that. but if done correctly it should be ok. he can send it to makita if he's not able to fix. they have a repair center, but it probably would take a few weeks.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

Not surprising I got a new pair of glasses just over a month ago ( it's hell getting old) and they came in to the optometrist with a scratch on one lense . They made it right , just saying!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i don't know enough about your shop to answer that. but if done correctly it should be ok. he can send it to makita if he's not able to fix. they have a repair center, but it probably would take a few weeks.


He says he's going to fix it and will call when it's done.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 21, 2017)

The saw has been in the shop 26 days since 2/20/17 !! And counting!!


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## KiwiBro (Mar 21, 2017)

crazy


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## CoreyB (Mar 21, 2017)

I had one warranty issue take 4 months. Challenging situation but got it covered and everything working. Sometimes the procedure take time and sometimes you uncover more that needs addressed and you have to go back 2 steps before you can go forward again. But I can not speak for your dealer.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

How many hours labor are we talking to change crank bearings / seals on this 421??? Does anyone know if Makita /Dolmar warranty's the repairs??


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## sugarbush (Mar 22, 2017)

thats a warranty item, 2 hours allowed for repair.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get rid of it when/if I get it back. Hard telling what's next !! If the crank bearings are bad could the crank be damaged??


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

I can't believe this saw has these issues with so little time on the saw!!! I am thoroughly disappointed!!!


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## sugarbush (Mar 22, 2017)

not likely there's anything wrong with crank or bearing, i mentioned the bearing because it's part of the seal. they will both be changed at the same time. not that big of a deal. your's is more of a problem then it should have been because of your dealer. he shouldn't have had to contact makita to figure out what's wrong. he still should verify that it is a crank seal not just replace because makita said it sound's like that's what it is. ( i think it is but wouldn't replace the seal's unless i was sure.) that problem could happen with any saw/brand.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

Well I can tell you that is the plan! He said Makita said that was the problem , he's waiting on the parts and will call when it's finished. Who knows if the seals will correct the problem. I wonder what they will tell him next if this doesn't work????


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## merc_man (Mar 22, 2017)

I wouldnt ditch the saw. They are good saws. Probly assembly error from factory. Sounds to me that the dealer dont know his 
@$$ from a hole in the ground and making this way worse then it is.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## sugarbush (Mar 22, 2017)

your dealer is the man not makita. it's up to the dealer to find and fix the problem not makita.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

I am limited on dealers there's one about 15 mi. away that I checked out before I bought the saw , he has a lawnmower shop , said he sells Dolmar because no one else close by sells them so he has no competition. Didn't really say they were good saws . I asked if he checked the tune on his saws before they left the shop and he looked at me like I just peed in his cheerios and sternly replied NO don't need to they are tuned at the factory. So I checked him off my list. The guy who sold me the saw seemed knowledgeable ( builds racing snowmobiles) has a small father and son operation, was cordial , and willing to work with me.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

I guess it's on me then for choosing the dealer ! Live and learn!! IF I purchase ,another Dolmar it won't be from there.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 22, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> your dealer is the man not makita. it's up to the dealer to find and fix the problem not makita.


I absolutely agree!!! I really don't get why this is going the way it is!!!! I SURE don't think it's right!!


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## bigbadbob (Mar 22, 2017)

Those little makita/dolmars are usually a bulletproof saw, I have a dcs 430 and had a 340?? The smaller one rode on the back of my atv for years, I would buy another in a heartbeat.
Subscribed to see the outcome,, a great thread.
BBB


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 24, 2017)

Well 24 days in the shop this month 5 last month haven't heard from my dealer. I'm thinking of calling Makita myself. Any dealers out there want to weigh in on this move? Could I make things worse?? I'm thinking by the time this is over I have a reconditioned saw ! That's not what I bought! I bought a new saw.If this is indeed from factory defect in material or workmanship then I don't think it should be at my expense. I heat with wood and scrounge wood to cut . I was fortunate enough to find a farmer down the road who had some logging done that would allow me to cut up some oak tops for next winters heat. I went and bought another saw I couldn't really afford just so I could continue cutting. Advice on the call to Makita will be appreciated.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 24, 2017)

I have another question for you dealers. What criteria does one have to meet to be authorized to do warranty work ?? Do the manufacturers take any steps to make sure those performing these services are qualified and competent? Is there some assurance implied by the manufacturers that the work performed meets their standards? I'm not trying to bash anyone or question anyone's competency I just am looking for insight as to how this all works.


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## merc_man (Mar 24, 2017)

If this wasnt resolved by now id be calling dollmar/ makita every morning at the same time. And ask for the same person to bi tch at. Id be the biggest pain in the @$$ by now.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 24, 2017)

I'm seriously considering doing that very thing!! Maybe file some complaints with some other agencies also!!


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## CoreyB (Mar 24, 2017)

Warranty authorized varies but generally you and or your techs have to pass some forms of certification. I would politely let your dealer know you purchased the saw for use and not to sit in a shop. You would like a saw you can use. But again I have no idea what they are seeing or obstacles they have to deal with. But an open honest conversation can help clear the air and help you know exactly where things are sitting and what the next steps are and what time frame he expects those to be done.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 24, 2017)

I agree with the open conversation . My dealer seems hesitant to say anything. Short blunt answers. "Waiting on parts" is about the extent of it. Seems like he is mad that he has to work on it! Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I really am not comfortable with having the saw tore completely down and reassembled in his shop and returned to me . If the saw required that much work due to assembly error or defective parts it should have been replaced. And frankly no one even knows if this is the problem !!!! Thanks for the info on certification ,


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I really am not comfortable with having the saw tore completely down and reassembled in his shop and returned to me . If the saw required that much work due to assembly error or defective parts it should have been replaced. And frankly no one even knows if this is the problem !!!!


While it's pathetic he hasn't fixed it yet, keep in mind this is a power tool you used hard for a year. You really expect it to be replaced rather than repaired at that point? Even if he knew how to fix it, which seems doubtful, having whatever failed repaired would be reasonable. It's just a chainsaw, a simple piece of machinery - it won't lose it's virginity because some parts were replaced.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 24, 2017)

It is indeed a tool of which I have many . I do carpentry work . Have been in the construction field my whole life used many many tools. I have a Makita circular saw that's 15 years old. I wouldn't consider cutting 6-8cords of wood hard use. It is what it is . The saw won't be staying with me if/when I get it back. What would you consider the service life of a good chainsaw?? Used for firewood 6-8 cord a year.


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## 7sleeper (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> ... What would you consider the service life of a good chainsaw?? Used for firewood 6-8 cord a year.


If we are talking now about a 421, I would consider, with proper maintenance, the next 20-30 years absolutely realistic. 



Chris-PA said:


> ... It's just a chainsaw, a simple piece of machinery - it won't lose it's virginity because some parts were replaced.









7


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 25, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> If we are talking now about a 421, I would consider, with proper maintenance, the next 20-30 years absolutely realistic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Well I don't know about that ! My equipment is well maintained. The wife says I'm anal about it. I was thinking at least 10 years, so crapping out at 1/10 of the service life, I don't think it's out of line to expect a replacement.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Well I don't know about that ! My equipment is well maintained. The wife says I'm anal about it. I was thinking at least 10 years, so crapping out at 1/10 of the service life, I don't think it's out of line to expect a replacement.


I seriously doubt replacement with a new saw after a year of use was the terms of the warranty, and if not why would you expect it? Mass produced machines fail - sometimes through parts or assembly defects, or damage in use, or just wearing out. In this case it is apparent that this particular company does not have the support systems set up to fix your saw in a timely manner, at least in your area. Had you lived near one of the good dealers on this forum you would already had it fixed. If it had been a bearing or a seal or a fuel line, the part would have been replaced and it would have been just as good as ever. 

It has not even been settled that the saw was defective. From the description it was never tuned and went lean when the plug was replaced. Perhaps it was a bad plug or it leaked, and the saw could have damage from that (yes I'm discounting everything the dealer said). If so Makita would not owe you anything. For those who cannot work on their own saws it is best to buy from a company with good support in your area and a dealer who is capable of fixing them. Otherwise you're stuck with some guy who might be incompetent. Frankly, owning any equipment you cannot work on yourself is inherently risky. 

The other choice would be to go with the big box store approach where you can just bring it back for an exchange, but even there after a year of use I doubt they'd take it.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 25, 2017)

I get it you don't think they should replace the saw! 
As far as dealer support goes perhaps the company should make sure there is good dealer support before granting a dealership. I have no control over that. As far as working on the saw myself I am prohibited from working on it myself during the warranty period. If as you say 1 year is too long to replace the saw ie... not cost effective then perhaps they should adjust the warranty period, again something I have no control over. As for the saw not being tuned I specifically asked the dealer if he checked the tune before the saw left his shop. He said he did that's one of the reasons I chose that dealer.You say one should be able to work on your own equipment and at the same time imply that me changing the spark plug, OE obtained from the dealer is somehow the root of this problem???? You are correct if the saw had been fixed right the first time in the shop all would be well. As far as damage goes running the saw with an air leak while trying to diagnose /troubleshoot is once again out of my control. I'm just a guy trying to heat my home with wood when I purchase something with a specific purpose , a chainsaw for cutting wood,I expect it to perform as as implied.


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## CoreyB (Mar 25, 2017)

As a dealer a piece of equipment that has a year of use it have to figure out what the manufacturer defect is and make sure there was no user error. Like leaving pump fuel in the saw for more then 30 days. That is a user caused problem. Or if they didn't bring it in to check the tune after a 25 degree temp change. Again user caused. Or what ever the reason. If the problem is tricky then it takes some time especially if it is the first time they have ever seen it.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 25, 2017)

REALLY!! So here in Ohio I should take the saw in every time there's a temp variation of 25°?????
You know what they say , you can't reason with unreasonable people!!!!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> REALLY!! So here in Ohio I should take the saw in every time there's a temp variation of 25°?????
> You know what they say , you can't reason with unreasonable people!!!!


That has actually been the state of the art in chainsaws for a long time. The mixture will lean out when the air temperature drops, so you can either readjust as needed or set it so it is rich when it's warm. Unfortunately all position carbs have some inherent limitations that make them less stable than other carbs, like in a lawn mower for example. People who used saws got used to it, but it surprises people with expectations based on other products. 

These days you could buy an AutoTune or Mtronic saw that adjusts its own mixture, but these are more expensive. 

I think chainsaws are a problematic tool to sell to people who cannot work on them. There is a lot to know and many things to adjust, and lots of opportunities for problems even beyond defects. Adusting the mixture should be something done by the operator on an as-needed basis at any time it's required - no different than adjusting a wood working tool to get the result you want.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 25, 2017)

I agree so let's do away with the limiters and tamper proof adjustment shapes on the jets. Remove from the manual the part that says the carb is not user adjustable and should only be adjusted buy an authorized service dealer!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 25, 2017)

The manual tells.me.not to adjust the carb while not adjusting the carb causes problems ! What's wrong with that picture!!??!!


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## merc_man (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> The manual tells.me.not to adjust the carb while not adjusting the carb causes problems ! What's wrong with that picture!!??!!


I think the manual says that so the average person who dont know what ther doing dont mess with it. 
If the dealer is any good they wouldnt charge to check the toon of a saw in my opinion. ( sorry if i offend any dealer by sayin that) 
Any how while cutting you should always check many times through out the day if saw is fourstroking at wot out the cut. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## Chris-PA (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> The manual tells.me.not to adjust the carb while not adjusting the carb causes problems ! What's wrong with that picture!!??!!


Simple - the cheap fuel systems puke unburned fuel because even when properly tuned they run rich at almost every point but wide open throttle max load. Many people find that unacceptable and rules were passed limiting how much unburned fuel can be emitted. The brand you bought chose to deal with that by adjusting it closer to lean and adding a cat muffler to burn up much of what come out anyway. And adding limiters so that the product they sell actually performs somewhat like what they submitted for tests. 

All of which is to say they were too cheap to invest in any serious product development and just put on a band-aid. They are not alone, and unless you do some serious research you won't know. The only saw in that displacement range that does not have that issue is an MS241, which is lots of $. 

Alternatively you could pull the limiters and learn to tune it, which I have no doubt is within your capabilities. After all the warranty has been worthless anyway.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 25, 2017)

No limiters double d on the high I chose this saw because it does not have auto tune. I am capable just trying to go by the book until the warranty expires, good thing I did! I have a top handle saw ,I won't mention the brand , that was tuned so lean from the factory it was useless . Had to let it sit and run full choke for a couple minutes every time I started it . I could not get a dealer to tune it rich enough to get it to operate properly. I pulled the limiters , opened up the exhaust a little and the saw runs great. If I hadn't done that I'm sure I would have burned it up!!


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## CoreyB (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I agree so let's do away with the limiters and tamper proof adjustment shapes on the jets. Remove from the manual the part that says the carb is not user adjustable and should only be adjusted buy an authorized service dealer!


Every saw I sell I let the customer know if the temp changes by 25 degree between uses then bring it in and we will retune for free. However is someone burns up a saw from bad tune that never brought it in gets no love. Unfortunately a lean seize looks the same weather it be fuel or air leak. Like I said it is a challenge to take good care of customers but yet try and keep from getting taken advantage of. As a consumer you have the obligation to educate yourself on your equipment and needs. As a dealer we should try and educate the buyer the best we can.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> No limiters double d on the high I chose this saw because it does not have auto tune. I am capable just trying to go by the book until the warranty expires, good thing I did! I have a top handle saw ,I won't mention the brand , that was tuned so lean from the factory it was useless . Had to let it sit and run full choke for a couple minutes every time I started it . I could not get a dealer to tune it rich enough to get it to operate properly. I pulled the limiters , opened up the exhaust a little and the saw runs great. If I hadn't done that I'm sure I would have burned it up!!


Well then you'll have no problems retuning for temp changes.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 29, 2017)

Well, day 29 and counting !!! Still don't have my saw back, no correspondence from my dealer since the 21st when he said" I'll call when it's done."


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## Kel71 (Mar 29, 2017)

To me it sounds like your dealer blew you off and is waiting for you to come get your saw. I don't like it when shops stroke people like this. I wonder if the saw is 1/2 apart stuffed in a box or slapped together.
If I was that shop I would expect you to come and get your saw, take the parts out of the box, lay them on the ground in front of my store, take a picture and post it on the internet warning future customers to go elsewhere.
Then again if I was that dealer your saw would be at home with you working good as new.


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## CoreyB (Mar 29, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Well, day 29 and counting !!! Still don't have my saw back, no correspondence from my dealer since the 21st when he said" I'll call when it's done."


Could always ask for a loner until you get yours back


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## merc_man (Mar 29, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> Could always ask for a loner until you get yours back


That would be a good idea

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## stubnail67 (Mar 29, 2017)

wow hell of a long read......11 pages and still no fix? I would be pretty pissed.... then again i can never wait to mod my stuff for warranty LOL..... Hope you get your saw fixed.......i am curious how this will work never brought a saw back for a warranty....Knock on wood.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 29, 2017)

My first warranty return also! Thanks for the well wishes!!


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## albert (Mar 29, 2017)

Your dealer is useless. Same goes for dolmar and their warranty. The dealer should have the skill to troubleshoot and slove the problem, not rely on dolmar to troubleshoot from phone. You shold have been given a new saw or refunder your money.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 29, 2017)

You seem to be the only one here that thinks I should get a new saw. Thanks


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## albert (Mar 30, 2017)

At this point politely request a
loaner and keep it till your is fixed and ran several tanks by you and all is well.


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## Khntr85 (Mar 30, 2017)

Wow what a mess.....did you ever ask to get your money back, or is that even a possibility???


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## merc_man (Mar 30, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> My first warranty return also! Thanks for the well wishes!!


Not a good experience for tour first time using waranty.
I just had to take my echo blower in for waranty at a year old and my dealer told me it would be fixed free of charge one way or another. Too bad all dealers wernt like that.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## merc_man (Mar 30, 2017)

Have you contacted dolmar youself yet. Id be calling every morning soon as they open. And bit chin to someone.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 30, 2017)

Called Dolmar this morning. Called dealer after Dolmar the call was disconnected mid conversation. The conversation was polite and cordial. I called back 3 times no answer. ????


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## GeorgiaVol (Mar 30, 2017)

Put a post on BBB.com for the dealer not fixing the problem in a timely fashion. I have only used that one time, but not did it get a response and change their tune about fixing the problem.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 30, 2017)

I emailed the dealer and told him I spoke with Dolmar and gave him the name of the rep and an extension number right after the attempted calls. I asked him to call me at his convenience.
Just received an email from the dealer stating they had lost power due to storms.I called again He said he had new bearings/seals but hadn't started repairs yet I asked that he call the rep. and speak with him. I told him that I thought it was a lot of work to repair and that I didn't understand why they just didn't replace the saw and that 30 days was a long time to be without the saw. He seemed to agree and said that Makita had instructed him to fix it , if this fixes it.
That's where we are 30 days in!!


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## merc_man (Mar 30, 2017)

Good ya called. Hopfully get the ball rolling.
I would still be calling everyday till saw is in your hands.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 30, 2017)

The dealer says he recommended the saw be replaced. It would appear that Makita has declined to take the advice of the authorized repair agent.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 30, 2017)

merc_man said:


> Good ya called. Hopfully get the ball rolling.
> I would still be calling everyday till saw is in your hands.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


I will be calling every day until I get the saw back repaired. The hell of it is no one has confirmed the new seals will fix the problem.


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## Khntr85 (Mar 30, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I will be calling every day until I get the saw back repaired. The hell of it is no one has confirmed the new seals will fix the problem.


Have you actually said "I WANT MY FING MONEY BACK"

Man this is crazy!!!


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## GrassGuerilla (Mar 30, 2017)

Subscribed... 

Gotta hear how this epic tale ends. I doubt it's gonna have a happy ending somehow.


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## albert (Mar 30, 2017)

Demand a loaner now, and keep it until they resolve it.


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## merc_man (Mar 30, 2017)

albert said:


> Demand a loaner now, and keep it until they resolve it.


After he gets his back id keep the loaner the same amount of days they had his.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

Update: dealer contacted Makita, they have now instructed him to NOT change the crank bearing/seals at this time. They gave him a list of other things to check. Carb, linkages,and do another leak test. He said they are considering replacing the saw. He asked that I be patient and bear with him and assured me he would make it right. That's where we are 31 days in!


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## merc_man (Mar 31, 2017)

Holy crap. He should have had the problem pin pointed by now.
He had better make it right for you for all the bs he put you through.

Id still be in contact with dolmar everyday till you have a saw in hand. Preferably a new one with all this bs.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## fordf150 (Mar 31, 2017)

@woodbutcher56 you know how i feel about this deal and the reasons i had for telling you to leave it for that dealer to figure out and get it repaired but at this point if you want to get some more detailed info from him on what the holdup is and decide whether to leave it or go get it. He has had long enough to figure it out and hasnt for whatever reason.

Dolmar/Makita now has one of the easiest, if not the easiest warranty claim procedures i have ever dealt with. makita has zero interest in getting out of legitimate warranty claims and has told me on multiple occasions to "make the customer happy" if there is an issue that is questionable and to just repair anything i identify as warranty. obviously if its operator error or abuse/neglect its not covered but who does cover that.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

@fordf150. 
I called the dealer this morning and he said Makita had instructed him to test as described above. He said he has to call them after completing said tests and they would then make a decision on how to proceed. He said they seemed to be leaning towards replacement rather than repair but required him to test first. He said he would probably have to send the saw in and wanted to make sure he hadn't missed anything. At this point I am at the mercy of the dealer and Makita . I patience is going thin. 
No one involved seems to be too concerned with customer satisfaction .


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

My dealer told me if he has to replace the bearings/seals they will have $250 in repair cost. That's more than it cost to produce the saw in the first place!! If I had not contacted Makita yesterday and instructed the dealer to call the rep I spoke with he would have been changing out those bearings today. I fail to see how this is good business practice!!!!


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## fordf150 (Mar 31, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> My dealer told me if he has to replace the bearings/seals they will have $250 in repair cost. That's more than it cost to produce the saw in the first place!! If I had not contacted Makita yesterday and instructed the dealer to call the rep I spoke with he would have been changing out those bearings today. I fail to see how this is good business practice!!!!


bearings are $10 each, case gasket $3, base gasket $2. labor time 2 hrs. done in my shop on your dime that comes to $125.. makitas cost isnt much less than that since most of the cost is in labor but you get the point...where is he coming up with $250


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

I can assure you my saw was neither abused or neglected and the dealer said he had communicated that to Makita. I would think if they were concerned with keeping the customer happy they would have instructed him to do just that instead of every time he calls instructing him to do something else that results in another week or two of me waiting for someone to decide what to do next.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

fordf150 said:


> bearings are $10 each, case gasket $3, base gasket $2. labor time 2 hrs. done in my shop on your dime that comes to $125.. makitas cost isnt much less than that since most of the cost is in labor but you get the point...where is he coming up with $250


 I don't have any idea. Maybe from total cost from the beginning of this fiasco.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

@fordf150 
I'm not doubting you or that you would have handled this differently. It was quite a drive to your place for the 5105 but well worth it if God forbid I should ever need warranty work on it. I would rather drive there 100 times as to go through this again!!!!!


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## sugarbush (Mar 31, 2017)

call makita again and tell them your tired of the run around and do the right thing, give you a new saw. they may save money in the long run. you don't have confident in your dealer to do a proper repair. you have been more then patient enough.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> call makita again and tell them your tired of the run around and do the right thing, give you a new saw. they may save money in the long run. you don't have confident in your dealer to do a proper repair. you have been more then patient enough.


 No answer at Makita. Left a message with my call back no. on the reps machine.


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## Khntr85 (Mar 31, 2017)

He is considering giving you a saw, are you ******** me!!!!

this is hard to grasp.....he should walk over and hand you a new saw!!!!


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## Khntr85 (Mar 31, 2017)

Do you heat with wood, or are you in the tree business.....


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

Heat with wood.


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## Khntr85 (Mar 31, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Heat with wood.


I don't know you, but I sure hate to hear this.... I hope they get you fixed up quickly..... you are obviously a very patient understanding man... a dealer should defined fight for a customer like you!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

Thanks for the well wishes! I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated.


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## woodbutcher56 (Mar 31, 2017)

I would like to take a moment to clarify something here. I am not saying Dolmar/Makita saws are bad saws. I REALLY liked the 421 while it was functioning properly I talked a buddy in to buying one! Hell I bought another one during this fiasco a 5105 and I really like it as well .I think the saws are great performers in there size and price point. My problem is with the customer service I have or have not received .I have just started reaching out to Dolmar/Makita directly I have been relying on my dealer to relay to me their perspective. I will refrain from placing blame until I see how they respond. They however should NOT have let this go on for this long. My first correspondence with them was not very productive . We'll see how it goes as I will be in frequent contact with them until this is resolved . Let the chips fall where they may!!!


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## Khntr85 (Apr 1, 2017)

I am anxious to see how they resolve this...


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## DFK (Apr 2, 2017)

For all of you 421 owners out there....
Next time you clean the Air Filter.. Look and see if there appers to be an Air Leak at the bottom of the filter where it fits into the intake.

The wife and I cut up a dead pine. While cleaning the saw I found too much dust inside the intake.

David


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 2, 2017)

I put a little bar grease on the o ring and where the two halves join together. It seems to keep most of the dust out.


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## CoreyB (Apr 2, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I put a little bar grease on the o ring and where the two halves join together. It seems to keep most of the dust out.


That is what I do. It seals well enough with out but that is just my occ. Lol


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## DFK (Apr 3, 2017)

10-4
A dab of Bar Grease for the 421.
Great little saw.

Thanks
David


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 3, 2017)

421 Update: called Makita rep Said he would not comment on the issue until he spoke with the dealer.He said he would call me later.
Called the dealer he said he was waiting on a call from Makita. He said new leak test indicated leaking crank seal. He said he would call when he hears from Makita rep. That's where we are 33 days w/o my saw!


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## porsche965 (Apr 3, 2017)

Incredible. 
Wrong Dealer.


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 3, 2017)

If I read this right, your dealer builds racing snow machines but can't diagnose and repair a leaky crank seal on a chainsaw? That seems odd.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 3, 2017)

That's what I thought too.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 3, 2017)

He's got a whole wall full of trophies!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 3, 2017)

Just got off the phone with the Makita dealer. He informed me the problem was an air leak in his words "in the case" he said he has instructed the dealer to fix it. He said I should have a working saw by the end of the week. I asked about replacement and he said if it's fixable we fix it. So there you have it 5 weeks and counting the saw is to be fixed by the guy who took 5 weeks to diagnose it.


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## Khntr85 (Apr 3, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Just got off the phone with the Makita dealer. He informed me the problem was an air leak in his words "in the case" he said he has instructed the dealer to fix it. He said I should have a working saw by the end of the week. I asked about replacement and he said if it's fixable we fix it. So there you have it 5 weeks and counting the saw is to be fixed by the guy who took 5 weeks to diagnose it.


Wow speechless...


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 4, 2017)

By the way my dealer still hasn't called to tell me what Makita said.
Question for the mechanics here. Since it has allegedly been determined the crank seal has failed , Im thinking one of three things caused this 1 bad seal installed at the factory, 2 not properly installed at the factory or 3 case is out of spec. Where the bearing seats. Is this correct?? Are there any other reasons the seal/bearing would fail???


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## cuinrearview (Apr 4, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> By the way my dealer still hasn't called to tell me what Makita said.
> Question for the mechanics here. Since it has allegedly been determined the crank seal has failed , Im thinking one of three things caused this 1 bad seal installed at the factory, 2 not properly installed at the factory or 3 case is out of spec. Where the bearing seats. Is this correct?? Are there any other reasons the seal/bearing would fail???


4: Ingested a speck of something
5: Random ****
Things happen above 12k. In a case like this I always question my actions first. 

Your dealer has no skills, or is lazy. This is obvious.

Or, there's some story missing. It sounds like you're on the path to getting back up and running. Bummer it's not looking like you're going to get the free brand new saw it sounds like you desire.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 4, 2017)

No story missing that I'm aware of I haven't had possession of the saw since March 1st. It's not that I desire a new saw just worried about damage caused by running the saw with an air leak and hoping it gets put back together properly.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 4, 2017)

cuinrearview said:


> 4: Ingested a speck of something
> 5: Random ****
> Things happen above 12k. In a case like this I always question my actions first.
> 
> ...


Do you repair saws?
I wouldn't consider it a free brand new saw. I did pay for a brand new saw a year ago and now through no fault of my own I have a dealer reconditioned saw.If as you say my dealer has no skills you can understand my concern.


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## CoreyB (Apr 4, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Do you repair saws?
> I wouldn't consider it a free brand new saw. I did pay for a brand new saw a year ago and now through no fault of my own I have a dealer reconditioned saw.If as you say my dealer has no skills you can understand my concern.


If repaired properly you will have a saw in better working order then before you realized there was a problem. That is fair. Hopefully he takes his time and is making sure everything is in order. I doubt he wants to have you come back with any issues.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 4, 2017)

If repaired properly is the key. I hope you're right I'm really tired of dealing with this. I just wish it would've been handled properly to begin with. I find it odd that a leak test in February showed no air leak and the same test at the end of March shows there is??????


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 5, 2017)

The real bummer here is I REALLY enjoy being in the woods and cutting firewood! This has kinda put a damper on my fun. Nothing like chips flying and the wood pile growing . Hopefully back to that soon!!!


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## cuinrearview (Apr 5, 2017)

Is your 5105 down too?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 5, 2017)

Nope ! I was just about to say , on a positive note this ordeal has lead me to a new dealer and a new 5105 , which I really like. Both of which occurred as a result of this. I think the 5105 might be better suited to my needs really. So there is a positive side to this story!!


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## Khntr85 (Apr 5, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> If repaired properly is the key. I hope you're right I'm really tired of dealing with this. I just wish it would've been handled properly to begin with. I find it odd that a leak test in February showed no air leak and the same test at the end of March shows there is??????


Ask the de


woodbutcher56 said:


> Nope ! I was just about to say , on a positive note this ordeal has lead me to a new dealer and a new 5105 , which I really like. Both of which occurred as a result of this. I think the 5105 might be better suited to my needs really. So there is a positive side to this story!!


cant wait til you get your saw back!!!


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## porsche965 (Apr 5, 2017)

I'd run a tank through that saw when you get it back and make sure the bar stays buried until empty. Re-fuel and do it again. If it runs perfect after that I'd say he fixed it right. Nothing worse than trying it out, thinking it's ok and 6 months from now put it to work and find out it has a problem again.


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 7, 2017)

No news?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 7, 2017)

Day 38 dealer emailed me around noon said they had run my saw for about 45 min. today and it"seemed ok" he volunteered to test again tomorrow if I wanted them to. I told him it was his call to do whatever he thinks is right and to let me know . I didn't hear back so I assume he's going to test again tomorrow. I plan on picking it up tomorrow unless he tells me it's not fixed. I didn't have time to go there today anyway . 84 miles round trip!


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## merc_man (Apr 7, 2017)

Hopefully its good to go for you. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## sugarbush (Apr 7, 2017)

if it had an air leak before he worked on it and didn't leak after the repair it should be good to go.


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## merc_man (Apr 7, 2017)

Did the dealer recheck for pressure / vac after repair?

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 7, 2017)

How would you know if it leaked or not after the repair ? Other than the lean symptoms. I'm not questioning the fix just want to know the procedure. Do you perform another leak test after the fix to confirm or just run it and see what happens?


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## merc_man (Apr 7, 2017)

After you fix an air leak you re block intake and exhaust port and hook up to mighty vac pressure vac tester to confirm that leak was fixed.

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 7, 2017)

merc_man said:


> Did the dealer recheck for pressure / vac after repair?
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


 I haven't spoken with him directly just got an email. I'll talk with him tomorrow when I pick up the saw.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 7, 2017)

That makes sense to me!


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## Khntr85 (Apr 8, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> That makes sense to me!


Can't wait to hear how saw is when you get it.....

Are you going to tell him anything like, how do you operate a saw business when you can't diagnose a leaky seal, i won't ever be back here!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Well I picked up the saw yesterday. Didn't have time to run it then. Just went out and cleaned it up put in fresh fuel topped off the bar oil. The dealer said they had run the saw for 45 min. there was a couple pieces of punky looking wood about 8" across and maybe 40 cookies laying there. I tried to cut a piece of dry ash about 12" across and the saw will not cut as soon as it hits the wood it bogs to the point the chain stops I have to get it out of the wood to get the rpms back up !!!! Seems WAY rich!!!! The dealer said he hadn't turned in any bill to Makita yet as he wanted to make sure it was fixed. I asked if he would take it in on trade for a new one and he said " no you better keep it and make sure it's fixed". WTF!!!! This really pisses me off!!!!!


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## cuinrearview (Apr 9, 2017)

Ouch


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## porsche965 (Apr 9, 2017)

Set the carb.
Bad Dealer.
If it don't straighten up take your own hardwood back, show how bad it is and get a full refund. He should pay for your gas back and forth but probably wont.


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## GeorgiaVol (Apr 9, 2017)

Terrible dealer.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

I even asked him if he retuned! I'm sure they would love it if I tampered with the carb adjustment and give them a way out from under the warranty!!!


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## Sepia (Apr 9, 2017)

Did you ever get a look at the piston to see what kind of shape it was in after running lean?

It would be bad enough if he was just across town, but the distance you are traveling makes this experience absolutely ridiculous. Like porsche965 says, next time you go back take a big hardwood log - long enough to make 30 or 40 cuts, and don't leave until that log is completely sliced up.

And use his gas and oil!

And make him throw in a new chain for all the testing and aggravation!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

I didn't see the p&c the guys son had some really dark pics on his phone couldn't see much. He said it all looked good. I don't think I'll take it back to him. No point in calling Makita they pretty much refused to talk to me about any of this. I asked the dealer about that and he said they prefer to correspond with the dealers. So it isn't really CUSTOMER service more like dealer service.


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## sugarbush (Apr 9, 2017)

if your dealer fixed the air leak ( sounds like that was the problem) and had not changed the carburator settings, (because it did cut okay until it ran lean before any attempt at a fix), then it should have run okay after bearings and seals were replaced. I'm wondering if he even took it apart to install the new seals/bearings but simply played with the carburator settings hoping to cover it up enough to get by. Just guessing because it sounds like your dealer comes up with a lot of strange excuses. I think your only recourse is to keep pestering Makita.


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## CoreyB (Apr 9, 2017)

If there is a good dealer near. (Any dealer) should be willing to do a pressure/ vac test and a compression test. As well as show a couple of photos of the piston. My shop would charge. 50hr-1hr. For the testing and reassemble.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Makita WILL NOT talk to me ! Every attempt I made resulted the rep saying I'll have to speak with the dealer. He had some bearings laying there on the bench thee saw looks like it has been apart the heat tape under the muffler is split and coming loose it wasn't before and there is some chipped paint.


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## porsche965 (Apr 9, 2017)

Can you start a warranty claim all over again with a new Dealer?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> If there is a good dealer near. (Any dealer) should be willing to do a pressure/ vac test and a compression test. As well as show a couple of photos of the piston. My shop would charge. 50hr-1hr. For the testing and reassemble.


I shouldn't have to pay for anything it's under warranty if a non authorized dealer messes with it my warranty is void.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

porsche965 said:


> Can you start a warranty claim all over again with a new Dealer?


I sure hope so!


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## bigbadbob (Apr 9, 2017)

What a bad luck thread,,,hope all gets better!!
They are a good saw,,


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## CoreyB (Apr 9, 2017)

I agree you shouldn't have to but sometimes it is worth the piece of mind.


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## sugarbush (Apr 9, 2017)

then take it back to retune, but take a piece of wood with you. he must not have cut with it. call and make an appointment so you can get adjusted while you wait.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

The dealer said he did a leak test after the fix. I asked why the first test didn't show a leak and the last one before repair did. He said they ran the saw and got it hot the last time then tested while hot. He said he tested at 2 bar and it took almost the whole 20 seconds to show then he said soap bubbles showed a leak under the flywheel???


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> then take it back to retune, but take a piece of wood with you. he must not have cut with it. call and make an appointment so you can get adjusted while you wait.


 He said he ran the saw for 45 min and pointed out the wood and cookies I referred to earlier.


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## sugarbush (Apr 9, 2017)

no wonder he missed the leak on first test if that is how he done the test, to find the type of leak that i think was on that saw he would have to pull the flywheel and test at 3 bars on vac. there would be no bubbles. ( clutch side same thing).


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> no wonder he missed the leak on first test if that is how he done the test, to find the type of leak that i think was on that saw he would have to pull the flywheel and test at 3 bars on vac. there would be no bubbles. ( clutch side same thing).


I find it hard to believe they got the saw hot and then pulled the carb and muffler , while hot , and tested before the saw cooled not to mention the temp changing would scew the test.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

I fail to understand what these people dealer and Makita get out of screwing with me like this. I just want what I paid for a, working saw this is B.S!!!


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## sugarbush (Apr 9, 2017)

i seen that, to me it didn't make much sense, might as well take it back for some tuning and cut with it before leaving.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> if your dealer fixed the air leak ( sounds like that was the problem) and had not changed the carburator settings, (because it did cut okay until it ran lean before any attempt at a fix), then it should have run okay after bearings and seals were replaced. I'm wondering if he even took it apart to install the new seals/bearings but simply played with the carburator settings hoping to cover it up enough to get by. Just guessing because it sounds like your dealer comes up with a lot of strange excuses. I think your only recourse is to keep pestering Makita.


 If you recall the dealer said he retuned the saw when he had it in February he said he turned the high out 3/4 turn


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

I guess I'm going to have to get a tach and a DD screwdriver and look up specs for my saw (rpm high and low) . I really liked d the saw when it worked properly but the customer service / warranty leaves a LOT to be desired!!!!


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## sugarbush (Apr 9, 2017)

actually it doesn't matter where the carb was set before repairs, he should have re'tacked it to factory specs. then wood tested.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Should have , Would have ,Could have !?!?!?!?!


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## sugarbush (Apr 9, 2017)

L- 2800
H- 13,500


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Thanks.. where's a good place to find the screwdriver?


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## dugide (Apr 9, 2017)

e-bay


woodbutcher56 said:


> Thanks.. where's a good place to find the screwdriver?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

dugide said:


> e-bay


Got a link??


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## CoreyB (Apr 9, 2017)

Amazon carb tools


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## pro94lt (Apr 9, 2017)

How many times have you been to the dealer?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Twice in Feb. Drop off and pick up. Once in March drop off once in April pick up . 4 round trips 84 miles each .


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## porsche965 (Apr 9, 2017)

All for a $350 chainsaw. Something isn't right with that.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

I just heard back from my dealer . He said he didn't know what to tell me . He said you saw the wood we cut. I asked if he tach tuned the saw . He said he tuned with 89 octane fuel and if I was running high octane that would make it run richer. I'm running 90 octane no E now my other saws run just fine with it with no retune. He said factory setting is 1 1/2 on the low 3 on the high. He said we stand behind our work if you want us to try and fix it.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Dolmar PDF service notes I have say 1 1/2 low 2 1/4 high . Anyone here have any different info??


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

porsche965 said:


> All for a $350 chainsaw. Something isn't right with that.


 Yeah my $350 dollar saw!!!!!


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## fordf150 (Apr 9, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> The dealer said he did a leak test after the fix. I asked why the first test didn't show a leak and the last one before repair did. He said they ran the saw and got it hot the last time then tested while hot. He said he tested at 2 bar and it took almost the whole 20 seconds to show then he said soap bubbles showed a leak under the flywheel???


 sounds like he was pressure testing to find bad seals. Leaking seals rarely show up testing like that, no wonder he couldn't find the leak.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Bottom.line is I STILL don't have a working saw!!!!


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## cuinrearview (Apr 9, 2017)

If I were you I would not touch the thing. I'd run it back over there as is and cut wood in front of him. If you think the wood he was cutting was junk then take your own. Let him know ahead of time you're coming. 

You're not stopped from cutting in the interim. You come across as knowing enough you should be able to make this guy do his job.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 9, 2017)

Tune it. Cut wood. You may need to tune it at any time, so you will need the tool anyway. Why on earth would you drive all that way to have someone else twiddle a little scew?

Like it or not, tuning a saw is part of using one.


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## merc_man (Apr 9, 2017)

If you know how to tune it id just order the DD and retune yourself. And while your at it id order all the other types of adjuster screwdrivers. I just did for about 50 bucks or so. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## CoreyB (Apr 9, 2017)

The settings in the manual are just a suggestion of what should work enough to start the saw. From there the saw has to be tuned for the current environment.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> Tune it. Cut wood. You may need to tune it at any time, so you will need the tool anyway. Why on earth would you drive all that way to have someone else twiddle a little scew?
> 
> Like it or not, tuning a saw is part of using one.


 Recommend a tach that won't break the bank and give me a link to where I can get the DD screwdriver


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## merc_man (Apr 9, 2017)

Go to ebay and type in carb tuning screwdriver and lots will pop up. And same with the tach.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

I know but apparently some of the Chinese screwdrivers won't work I'd like to know I'm getting one that will work. If someone could verify that a certain one , brand will fit I'd appreciate it.


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## merc_man (Apr 9, 2017)

My DD came from hutle and works good. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 9, 2017)

merc_man said:


> My DD came from hutle and works good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


 I found a set branded hutzl


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 9, 2017)

I think I'd pull the muffler and inspect the P&C before I adjusted that carb. If it is scored already from all the testing with an admitted air leak that was covered under warranty I wouldn't want to have them tell you that now that you've adjusted the carb the damage is your fault. If it is scored at all take it back asap. 

If it wasn't so far this your dealer I'd just take it back on principle. With all that's taken place I wouldn't settle for anything short of them making it right.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Recommend a tach that won't break the bank and give me a link to where I can get the DD screwdriver


I don't own a tach and I made my own D and DD tools, although they are readily available on eBay and Amazon. Tuning a saw is not hard and a tach is not required.

I agree with @GrassGuerilla though, but you'd have to do it yourself to find out. Chainsaws work best for those willing to do things for themselves though.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> I don't own a tach and I made my own D and DD tools, although they are readily available on eBay and Amazon. Tuning a saw is not hard and a tach is not required.
> 
> I agree with @GrassGuerilla though, but you'd have to do it yourself to find out. Chainsaws work best for those willing to do things for themselves though.


 It's not that I am unwilling to do anything for myself ,if there is still a problem with the saw, they need to make it right as per the warranty agreement. This isn't about me or my willingness to do my own work it's about a dealer and a manufacturer honoring a warranty agreement, or failure to honor ,as the case may be.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

In the shop a total of 44 days and still not functional!!!
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

How do I post pictures here?


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## fordf150 (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> How do I post pictures here?


"upload file" and attach your pictures


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## fordf150 (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> How do I post pictures here?


if its easier just email me the pics and i can post em for ya


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

Well I just took the saw to a different dealer ,told them my story . They put a tach on the saw low was 3500 high was 10500. Ain't that special!!!!


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## bigbadbob (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Well I just took the saw to a different dealer ,told them my story . They put a tach on the saw low was 3500 high was 10500. Ain't that special!!!!


So give it a tune shove it in some wood and report back!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

They tuned it for me around 2900 low and a little over 13000 high.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

Just ran a tank of gas through it cutting some cookies in some seasoned ash about 10-12 diameter. So far so good . The woods I cut in is really wet don't know if I can get in but I think I'll try after lunch. I'll keep you all posted. Hopefully it's fixed . I just wonder why the dealer had it tuned so rich unless he was trying to hide something.


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## CoreyB (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Just ran a tank of gas through it cutting some cookies in some seasoned ash about 10-12 diameter. So far so good . The woods I cut in is really wet don't know if I can get in but I think I'll try after lunch. I'll keep you all posted. Hopefully it's fixed . I just wonder why the dealer had it tuned so rich unless he was trying to hide something.


Unfortunately this day and age 2 stroke tuning is becoming a lost skill. I have had good Mechanics but had to be shown how to tune a saw. That is also why it is a good idea to have the tools and learn. FYI most shops will tune on the rich side. 13000 is still a bit rich on the 421 usually


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## CoreyB (Apr 10, 2017)

Glad you found someone to tune your saw.


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## fordf150 (Apr 10, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> Unfortunately this day and age 2 stroke tuning is becoming a lost skill. I have had good Mechanics but had to be shown how to tune a saw. That is also why it is a good idea to have the tools and learn. FYI most shops will tune on the rich side. 13000 is still a bit rich on the 421 usually


12800-13000 is where i set them when brand new. that leaves a nice cushion for the guys that cant/wont tune em. If they are capable of tuning.....its a nice break in setting to get started with.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 10, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> Unfortunately this day and age 2 stroke tuning is becoming a lost skill. I have had good Mechanics but had to be shown how to tune a saw. That is also why it is a good idea to have the tools and learn. FYI most shops will tune on the rich side. 13000 is still a bit rich on the 421 usually


 What would you set yours at 13200 or ????


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## Khntr85 (Apr 10, 2017)

Wow craziest story I have ever heard of....


Have you ever seen the old tire commercial were the old lady brings back the tire, and throws it threw the front window????!

Sine you have already wasted countless hours and dollars on this escapade, take the junk saw back with a piece of wood and show him it ain't right....unbelievable he is in business!!!!


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## 7sleeper (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> What would you set yours at 13200 or ????


As far as I understood the coil is limited to 13500. I have mine set to ~13400. But I have the "old" 420 version.

7


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## bigbadbob (Apr 10, 2017)

Woodbutche56 one day ya should get somebody to spend some time and do a tune and test.
A GTG is a great place to learn. 10years ago I was in the same boat as you,,,been fun learning.
I always pack a screwdriver with me to adjust,, they always seem to change a little, and I dont want to fry a saw. 
BTW good luck with your saw now!!!


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## fordf150 (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> What would you set yours at 13200 or ????


I just checked my personal saw with a tach and it is 13100-13200


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## sugarbush (Apr 10, 2017)

should work well at those settings. if it ran good through a tank of fuel i would think your ok.


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## CoreyB (Apr 10, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> What would you set yours at 13200 or ????


I very a bit 13200 for all around work. I lean it up a bit more for brush work and limbing. (If I have a lot to do)


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 10, 2017)

All things considered this is a happier ending than I foresaw of this thread. Just had a bad feeling somehow this was going to end poorly for the OP. Glad to hear you got it tuned and happy with how it's running. And the dealer you bought it from deserves a little credit. While it sounds like he isn't all that good at servicing after the sale, at least he stuck it out and saw it through to the end. Many would have blamed the fuel, mix or otherwise slithered out of the warranty work.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 11, 2017)

The thing is I'm still not entirely convinced the issue has been corrected. The first leak test , he says showed no leak. The story about the hot vac test doesn't fly! The way rich tune . He said he hadn't turned in any warranty claim yet . He declined to take the saw in on trade saying " you better just keep it and make sure it's fixed. I'm not saying it's not fixed but I he jury is still out . I need to run a couple tanks of gas through it consecutively and see what happens . Thanks for the well wishes. I really do hope it is fixed!!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 11, 2017)

Went to the woods today 3/4 through the second tank of gas idle issues returned. I topped off the tank to make sure low gas wasn't the problem still not idling properly. Not as extreme as last time but seems to be getting progressively worse.


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## merc_man (Apr 11, 2017)

Can you get a video of it

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 11, 2017)

I'll try I had to leave the woods to pick up my grandson from school.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 11, 2017)

I guess on a positive note I cut a nice pile of wood before it started acting up! I got a feeling I'm gonna get screwed on this big time!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 11, 2017)

I emailed the dealer , no response.


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## 7sleeper (Apr 11, 2017)

I don't know how it is in the US ut have you ever considered contacting a lawyer?

7


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 12, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> I don't know how it is in the US ut have you ever considered contacting a lawyer?
> 
> 7


A lawyer? Really? The value of the chainsaw is $350. Most lawyers would laugh.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> I don't know how it is in the US ut have you ever considered contacting a lawyer?
> 
> 7


 Undoubtedly a lawyer would cost me more than the saw is worth.


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## CoreyB (Apr 12, 2017)

I am half tempted to just buy the saw from you just to figure out what is wrong with it lol.


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## Khntr85 (Apr 12, 2017)

I am anxious to see a video of this saw idling and running....I am curious to see how this "fixed" saw runs....


If you go back yet agian to the dealer see what he says if you demand a new saw....hard telling what you have spent in gas driving back and forth, let alone all the time you have wasted....could have been getting wood, or making money doing something else!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> I am half tempted to just buy the saw from you just to figure out what is wrong with it lol.


 I would feel bad about selling it to you!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

Had the saw back in the woods today. Intermittent high idle. It does idle down though maybe 30 seconds to two minutes . Cuts pretty good at WOT in the wood cleans up nice.after the local dealer tuned it . Just doesn't idle right . It seems to be getting a little worse each outing. I was thinking while in the woods today. Makita rep said I would have a working saw by the end of last week ,it wasn't working properly , the dealer gave me the saw and said it appeared to be fixed. I guess it must be fixed , surely they wouldn't tell me it's fixed if it's not.I guess maybe I should just run it after all who am I to second guess the Makita expert and his authorized agent.


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## merc_man (Apr 12, 2017)

Did yoy get a video. We could mabe help if we were able to here what its doing

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

I do have a short video but I don't know how to post it.


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## merc_man (Apr 12, 2017)

Any body able to guide him through posting the video. I did a vid once but cant remember how. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

I just got an email from my dealer , he said" Makita wants to fix the saw themselves" he wanted my address so they can send the saw directly back to me. I would think they have my address via the warranty registration. I think it's odd they haven't contacted me to inquire about the problem!


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## merc_man (Apr 12, 2017)

All the time invested in this saw they should just hand you a new one.

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

That ain't gonna happen!I still have a feeling I'm gonna get screwed on this!!


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## sugarbush (Apr 12, 2017)

i mentioned sending it to makita several weeks ago when it appeared the dealer was a little lost. it should git tested and repaired properly at there repair center. one reason makita may want it sent in is to look at what has been done by the dealer. your dealer may not be a dealer much longer.


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## RanchDad (Apr 12, 2017)

CoreyB said:


> I am half tempted to just buy the saw from you just to figure out what is wrong with it lol.



Curiosity killed the cat, but feeds the CAD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 12, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i mentioned sending it to makita several weeks ago when it appeared the dealer was a little lost. it should git tested and repaired properly at there repair center. one reason makita may want it sent in is to look at what has been done by the dealer. your dealer may not be a dealer much longer.


 Well I hope it gets repaired properly because I really like that little saw! When it's running right it never fails to bring a smile to my face when I put it in the wood!!!!


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## 7sleeper (Apr 12, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Undoubtedly a lawyer would cost me more than the saw is worth.


Absolutely correct, but I would include your time, your fuel spent driving through the country side, expenses to have to buy another saw to cut your firewood, the potential damage with not having enough drying time a having excess chimney build up, etc. etc.

7


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## LittleLebowski (Apr 13, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Had the saw back in the woods today. Intermittent high idle. It does idle down though maybe 30 seconds to two minutes . Cuts pretty good at WOT in the wood cleans up nice.after the local dealer tuned it . Just doesn't idle right . It seems to be getting a little worse each outing. I was thinking while in the woods today. Makita rep said I would have a working saw by the end of last week ,it wasn't working properly , the dealer gave me the saw and said it appeared to be fixed. I guess it must be fixed , surely they wouldn't tell me it's fixed if it's not.I guess maybe I should just run it after all who am I to second guess the Makita expert and his authorized agent.



You need a new dealer.


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## Khntr85 (Apr 13, 2017)

Imagine if you were a tree guy and depended on the saw every day, that dealer would have a serious problem...anxious to see what they say about this whole situation...


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 13, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i mentioned sending it to makita several weeks ago when it appeared the dealer was a little lost. it should git tested and repaired properly at there repair center. one reason makita may want it sent in is to look at what has been done by the dealer. your dealer may not be a dealer much longer.


 You have been right on trouble shooting this so far any thoughts on what the problem might be now?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 13, 2017)

I'm presently awaiting instructions on shipping. Not sure who is supposed to ship it. Dealer said he would let me know when he hears more from Makita.
I'm wondering if there is anything that the dealer might have missed or ??? during the repair. 
I questioned him about the bad tune and he said he runs his at about 10000- 10500 high???
I can't figure why he had the high so rich and the low so lean . ie... 10500 high and 3500 low??????


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## LittleLebowski (Apr 13, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I'm presently awaiting instructions on shipping. Not sure who is supposed to ship it. Dealer said he would let me know when he hears more from Makita.
> I'm wondering if there is anything that the dealer might have missed or ??? during the repair.
> I questioned him about the bad tune and he said he runs his at about 10000- 10500 high???
> I can't figure why he had the high so rich and the low so lean . ie... 10500 high and 3500 low??????



I'll say it again, you need a new dealer. I bought from @fordf150, sure I have to ship to him for warranty issues but I know that he knows the saws inside and out, and furthermore is a man of integrity.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 13, 2017)

LittleLebowski said:


> I'll say it again, you need a new dealer. I bought from @fordf150, sure I have to ship to him for warranty issues but I know that he knows the saws inside and out, and furthermore is a man of integrity.


 I have been to @fordf150 shop and purchased a 5105 while the 421 has been out of commission. He is good people. It's a 2 hr drive from my home and I believe worth every minute. I'm sure if ,God forbid , I should ever need a warranty repair it will be handled properly!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 17, 2017)

Update:. 52 days since the first trip to the dealer on Feb. 20 with this saw. In the shop from 2/20- 2/25 back in the shop 3/1- 4/8 still not right. Email from dealer on 4/12 says Makita wants to fix the saw themselves.I have driven 361 miles transporting the saw back and forth to the dealer. Today I received an envelope from the dealer in the mail ,in it is a Fed Ex shipping label, no other correspondence, no instructions , just the shipping label! Ain't that special!!


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## TBS (Apr 17, 2017)

Dealer should be boxing it up and mailing it not you.


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 17, 2017)

Nathan lassley said:


> Dealer should be boxing it up and mailing it not you.


Yeah, but that means what... 2 more 80+ mile trips? Or at least there and back assuming they ship the repaired saw to him at home. I'd rather ship it myself. Of course, I'd have rather shipped it a couple trips ago.


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## TBS (Apr 17, 2017)

I would rather ship it myself too but if the dealer sends the label with no box that means I have to pack it myself or pay to have it packed by a service. What I'm saying is they could at least have payed for packaging.


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## Khntr85 (Apr 18, 2017)




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## Stihl-Pioneer (Apr 18, 2017)

This would be a good time to write a nice letter and send it with the saw stating exactly what it does and how long it takes to do it. So whoever will be looking at it gets the info first hand instead of through many. 


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 18, 2017)

Stihl-Pioneer said:


> This would be a good time to write a nice letter and send it with the saw stating exactly what it does and how long it takes to do it. So whoever will be looking at it gets the info first hand instead of through many.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Agreed. And after detailing the saws symptoms, I'd also detail the experience of the dealer "repair." Include any correspondence such as e-mails etc.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 18, 2017)

I saved all email correspondence on my phone . I kept notes throughout the whole sorted affair. If I included all with the saw it would be a 10 page letter. This is as I understand it a repair center I doubt they really care about my experience with this issue. Customer service should be the ones dealing with that aspect and they are reluctant to speak with me . It should be called dealer service as every time I contacted them I got a "no comment or I can't comment on that" I'll have to speak with the dealer"


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 18, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I saved all email correspondence on my phone . I kept notes throughout the whole sorted affair. If I included all with the saw it would be a 10 page letter. This is as I understand it a repair center I doubt they really care about my experience with this issue. Customer service should be the ones dealing with that aspect and they are reluctant to speak with me . It should be called dealer service as every time I contacted them I got a "no comment or I can't comment on that" I'll have to speak with the dealer"


Include a copy. Worst that can happen is no attn paid to it. Best case is someone sees it and funnels it up the chain of command appropriately.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 18, 2017)

Boxed up the saw , included a letter outlining my experience, dropped it at the nearest Fed Ex drop off. Tack on another 30 miles round trip to the drop off. Now wait and see what happens next, I shudder to think about it!!!! I asked at the end of the letter that whoever reads it kindly see that it gets in the appropriate hands. My guess is it lands squarely in the shitcan !!!


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## CoreyB (Apr 18, 2017)

Also a video on you tube give them the Url stating that it is currently private and emply it can be public. Go into detail of showing the problem as well as any information and corresponding about the saw, problems, and every statement saying it was repaired. It is some effort on your part but makes it very hard to argue and no company wants videos like that with actual proof and failed warranty services being broadcast. I would include a link to this thread as well as a screen shot of a Google search showing how quickly this thread is showing for anyone with concerns about aNY dolmar 421 problems.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 21, 2017)

Update: I got a call from Makita tech that worked on my saw this afternoon. He said he replaced the carb . He said the saw definitely would not idle properly before .He said he noticed in my notes that the dealer had cleaned the carb. He said we don't do that if there's issues with the carb it should be replaced.He aid there's a brand new carb on the saw now he said they only made a couple cuts with it but it should be fine. I mentioned my concern of existing air leaks and he said the gaskets were all fine . Didn't have much time to talk today he gave me his ext no. and asked that I call him back Mon. afternoon I'll get more details then. They were shipping the saw back this afternoon said I should have it by Tuesday 4/25. Pretty quick I figured it would take at least a couple weeks. I hope it's really fixed this time!


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## merc_man (Apr 21, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Update: I got a call from Makita tech that worked on my saw this afternoon. He said he replaced the carb . He said the saw definitely would not idle properly before .He said he noticed in my notes that the dealer had cleaned the carb. He said we don't do that if there's issues with the carb it should be replaced.He aid there's a brand new carb on the saw now he said they only made a couple cuts with it but it should be fine. I mentioned my concern of existing air leaks and he said the gaskets were all fine . Didn't have much time to talk today he gave me his ext no. and asked that I call him back Mon. afternoon I'll get more details then. They were shipping the saw back this afternoon said I should have it by Tuesday 4/25. Pretty quick I figured it would take at least a couple weeks. I hope it's really fixed this time!


Good they got ya looked after quickly.
Hope all is well. The shop should have just put a new carb on in the first place. 

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 21, 2017)

merc_man said:


> Good they got ya looked after quickly.
> Hope all is well. The shop should have just put a new carb on in the first place.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


 That's what the tech said!


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## sugarbush (Apr 21, 2017)

don't give him to much credit yet.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 21, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> don't give him to much credit yet.


 So , you're skeptical??


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## sugarbush (Apr 21, 2017)

just a bit. but if it isn't fixed i would think you would be given a new saw. 


woodbutcher56 said:


> So , you're skeptical??


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 21, 2017)

That ain't gonna happen!!! They would've done that already.Policy must be after a certain amount of time you get what you got no matter what!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 21, 2017)

Does the lemon law apply to chainsaws???LOL


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## merc_man (Apr 21, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Does the lemon law apply to chainsaws???LOL


I think the lemon law should apply to the dealer that you were dealing with. He should have had it fixed proper the first couple weeks. 

Ps. dont return to that dealer. Lol

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 24, 2017)

Called Makita tech today ,got a tracking no. should have the saw tomorrow. I asked the tech if they ad performed.a leak test . He said no the seals look good once we determined it was the carb that's what we fixed. ?????
I asked if they replaced the rubber boot behind the carb he said no that looked good too.He said they had cut a little with it and he said he even held the saw upside down and it ran fine. At that point I saw no reason to continue our conversation. Now Sugarbush I too am somewhat skeptical. Time will tell . When I get it back I'm gonna take it to the woods and run it like I stole it!!!!


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## sugarbush (Apr 24, 2017)

i'm no longer skeptical, if the seals looked good and it run good upside down you shouldn't have anything to worry about. but ---


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 24, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i'm no longer skeptical, if the seals looked good and it run good upside down you shouldn't have anything to worry about. but ---


You're kidding right!


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## sugarbush (Apr 24, 2017)

yes!


woodbutcher56 said:


> You're kidding right!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 25, 2017)

I got the saw back today. It was packed in the same box I sent it in, bar still had cardboard taped to the ends just like I sent it. There was no signs of wood chips anywhere on the saw . If they cut with it they used their own bar and chain and meticulously cleaned the saw afterwards.I fueled it up and put bar oil in started the saw it seemed ok . I cut a few cookies and the high , erratic idle returned. It was actually worse than when I sent it. I shut it down went to the woods and got a 5 foot oak log about 8" across and went to the local dealer that tuned it last time. I told him I wanted them to see what was going on.One of the guys running the shop said I should call Makita and demand a new saw since they obviously can't fix it. I started the saw and the mechanic listened to it and started tinkering with the carb (no tach) it quit and he fussed with it a couple minutes trying to get it started. Once started I put it in some wood and the saw idled to high after the cut he fiddled with it a little more and it was still idling fast then slow erratic. I questioned the high idle and he said the chain was too loose. He tightened the chain way tighter than I ever have and said run it. I brought the saw home about an hour had passed I went to test some more and couldn't get the saw started would only fire while the choke was on flip it to run position and it would fire and quit instantly . The saw has always started in 3_4 pulls, 1_2 on choke till it fired and one or two in the run position. I finally got it running and made some cuts it's still not right. It idles very erratic I have video . It will be idling properly then speed up while sitting . Im at a loss here . This really is B.S!!!!


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## sugarbush (Apr 25, 2017)

sounds like an air leak!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 25, 2017)

I told the local dealer I could see what was going on. They keep telling me it's fixed till there's a lean seize then too bad for me. I can see the writing on the wall!!


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## merc_man (Apr 25, 2017)

Wow. This is unreal. I thought dolmar would have been better then that. I would be calling ther and tearing someone a new @$$ till they send a new saw and make this rite. 
Very disapointing for a big saw company. This would almost be enough for me to sell off the other dolmar ya just picked up and switch brands if i was in your shoes.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 25, 2017)

It really pisses me off the mechanic said the chain was too loose causing the idle issues . This ain't my first saw ,I've been running it with no issues for 14 months and now it's because the chain is too loose . I'm about out of patients I'm gonna have to walk away from this before I come unglued!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 25, 2017)

merc_man said:


> Wow. This is unreal. I thought dolmar would have been better then that. I would be calling ther and tearing someone a new @$$ till they send a new saw and make this rite.
> Very disapointing for a big saw company. This would almost be enough for me to sell off the other dolmar ya just picked up and switch brands if i was in your shoes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


Don't think that hasn't entered my mind! Those people at customer service won't talk to me if I get mean with them they'll just hang up and leave me stewing over it and I don't want to let them get the best of me!


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## merc_man (Apr 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Don't think that hasn't entered my mind! Those people at customer service won't talk to me if I get mean with them they'll just hang up and leave me stewing over it and I don't want to let them get the best of me!


Id be calling them hourly. Id be the biggest pain in the rear. 

I had to do that once for insurance on the van. After driving a smashed up van for two weeks and nothing happening i called hourly and after a few hours they got fed up real fast and got the ball rolling. I was in the loaner vehicle by the end of the day.

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 25, 2017)

I do kinda regret buying the new saw . I like the 5105,so far anyway, I liked the 421 too until it started acting up ,but it really grates on me to think I gave them more of my money and then get **** on like this.


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## cuinrearview (Apr 25, 2017)

No need to worry about the 5105. They are awesome saws. If you want to close all this drama out PM me, I will buy the 421 from you. I've been dying to try one and I wouldn't mind seeing how they're put together.


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## superwd6 (Apr 25, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I told the local dealer I could see what was going on. They keep telling me it's fixed till there's a lean seize then too bad for me. I can see the writing on the wall!!



I felt the same way about husqvarna 545 so every time they said "try that" a bought another can of Husqvarna premixed fuel. Finally killed it cutting 6or 8 cookies non stop on 20" log. DEALER gave me new saw 
. 


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

superwd6 said:


> I felt the same way about husqvarna 545 so every time they said "try that" a bought another can of Husqvarna premixed fuel. Finally killed it cutting 6or 8 cookies non stop on 20" log. DEALER gave me new saw View attachment 575529
> .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Are you still running the 545? Or did you dump the Husky after the bad experience? I was thinking of replacing the 421 with a Jonsered 2252 same as the 545. What was the issue with h your saw ? Do you like the performance?


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## sugarbush (Apr 26, 2017)

call your dealer and tell him how your saw is running after getting it back from makita repair center, i think they will give you a new saw if you bi*ch enough. don't run it the way it is.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

I emailed him yesterday and described the issues. I just emailed the dealer and told him I thought he should step up and take charge of the situation. I told him I thought it was his job as a dealer to support his customers and I think he should replace the saw and deal with Makita himself as they are reluctant to even speak with me. We'll see how that goes. 
Thanks for the advice Sugarbush! I will refrain from running the saw .


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

Update :. I got an Email from the dealer this evening said he was on the phone all day with Makita. He said "it sounds like they may replace the saw" , " however they want my saw to be shipped to Georgia" Dealer said he is sending me another shipping label & a return authorization to enclose with the saw. He says they want to make it right with me. He closed with " if this happens they will send a new unit dire you to me". So that's the latest. Frankly I'm really tired of this whole fiasco!!!!


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## cuinrearview (Apr 26, 2017)

You should post lots of pictures inside and out of the saw before it goes, just for record. It may help a member in the future, and legitimize your plight.


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 26, 2017)

I haven read this whole thread, but this sounds like like a run of the mill pto side air leak, which is easily diagnosed in a few minutes. 

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

Andyshine77 said:


> I haven read this whole thread, but this sounds like like a run of the mill pto side air leak, which is easily diagnosed in a few minutes.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


Dealer said he changed crank seals.


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## GeorgiaVol (Apr 26, 2017)

Sounds like a good idea. Send it down here, we can fix anything. Or at least rig it and make it work.


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## superwd6 (Apr 26, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Are you still running the 545? Or did you dump the Husky after the bad experience? I was thinking of replacing the 421 with a Jonsered 2252 same as the 545. What was the issue with h your saw ? Do you like the performance?



545 was a gift to my Uncle, new saw runs good but he doesn't use it a lot. I bought the 550xpg last fall ,sometimes it has hanging high idle for a second but nothing scary. The original 545 had bog,stalling issues and seemed computer was always setting itself.Suspected air leak but was careful to mention that to dealer with no real diagnoses till the melt down . These saws handle and cut fantastic but my original 576xpg auto tune gave me no running issues. Would seriously look at Stihl 261cm now it's not the fat kid any more lol [emoji3]


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 26, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Dealer said he changed crank seals.


Did they vacuum/pressure test the saw?

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

He said they did.but he said they did the first time it was in the shop in February and detected no leak then on April 3 he said he did find an air leak. I really have no way of knowing what they really did.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

The saw has been in someone else's possession 50 days since Feb 20. Being repaired.


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## sugarbush (Apr 26, 2017)

sounds like it may finally get resolved like it should considering the run around you'v gotten. good to hear that.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

Well now I'm skeptical !!!


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## sugarbush (Apr 26, 2017)

sending the saw back to makita is probably a formality.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 26, 2017)

I guess that remains to be seen!


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## sugarbush (Apr 26, 2017)

yup, skeptical. 


woodbutcher56 said:


> I guess that remains to be seen!


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 26, 2017)

Woodbutcher where about in Ohio are you? I'm in the Cincinnati area.

How about the tank vent has that been checked? 

Sometimes these things are more simple than one would ever ever believe. The 421 can be tricky to tune if you don't know what you're doing, and it sure sounds like a lot of that going on. Any dealer worth anything would have fixed the saw or replaced the saw in a timely manner. 

With that said the vast majority of dealers are useless these days, and lack even the most basic skills, such as tuning a carb.

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 27, 2017)

Andyshine77 said:


> Woodbutcher where about in Ohio are you? I'm in the Cincinnati area.
> 
> How about the tank vent has that been checked?
> 
> ...


I live in Northern Ohio


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 27, 2017)

I just got off the phone with the dealer. I asked him exactly what Makita had told him. He said" they are working on it" I asked what that meant? I asked if they specifically said they were replacing the saw, he said " they are contemplating replacement but it's not a done deal . I asked what difference is between the Chicago repair center and Georgia . He said I don't know . I asked why he wouldn't just replace the saw and deal with Makita. He said I just do what they tell me. I sent the shipping labels today you should have them today or tomorrow. I told him I thought it was a sad state of affairs the way this is playing out.
So again I am SKEPTICAL!!!!


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 27, 2017)

Bad luck you're having with that 421. Don't give up on that model it's one of the best saws I've had my hands on and that list is long.

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## CoreyB (Apr 27, 2017)

Andyshine77 said:


> Bad luck you're having with that 421. Don't give up on that model it's one of the best saws I've had my hands on and that list is long.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


I agree the 421 is a great little firewood saw and all around little work horse . It is a shame you are having such a bad time. I hope it gets sorted soon and you can have as good of an experience as so many of us have had.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 27, 2017)

I really like the saw when it's working right. talked my buddy in to buying one. I did a ton of research before buying .Reading about it on this site pretty much sold me on the saw. I'm kind of an info junkie I do a lot research before I buy anything, It usually pays off! Just bad luck this time. Thanks for the well wishes. Hopefully this gets resolved soon!


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## cuinrearview (Apr 27, 2017)

How's your friend like his?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 27, 2017)

cuinrearview said:


> How's your friend like his?


He loves it and he was a die hard Stihl man!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 27, 2017)

When I bought this saw I talked quite a bit with the dealer. Asked some good questions and got some good answers. I went there to check out the 421 and told him what I intended to do with it . He assured me it was up to the task. I also checked out the 5105 as I was worried about the 421 not having the power I was looking for . He said you take this saw and use it and if you're not satisfied bring it back, but I can tell you you won't be back! He was right that little saw surpassed my expectations!! I was pretty quick to brag it up to other brand loyal guys who were unfamiliar with the Dolmar brand.We had kind of a gtg when my buddies folks had some logging done and we were cleaning up the tops for firewood. The little saw really got noticed quick in the wood and sooo easy to start. I'm kinda eating crow now! Hopefully I can redeem myself with the 5105 it's pretty darned impressive too!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 28, 2017)

Check the older thread. Titled 'What to replace my Dolmar 421' posted by gearjunkie' Nov.21 ,2015
I'm not the only one who has had this problem!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 28, 2017)

If anyone knows gearjunkie' or has any contact info I would sure like to talk to him!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 28, 2017)

I received today a document from my dealer outlining the procedures he performed on my saw. 
Says he did a "hot" leakdown test, could someone please explain to me what that is ? Also no mention of a leak test after the crank seal replacement.


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## merc_man (Apr 28, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Check the older thread. Titled 'What to replace my Dolmar 421' posted by gearjunkie' Nov.21 ,2015
> I'm not the only one who has had this problem!!


Cant find it. Got a link?

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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

I found it on Google. 
arboristsite.com/community/threads/what-to-replace-my-dolmar-421.289140/


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## merc_man (Apr 29, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I found it on Google.
> arboristsite.com/community/threads/what-to-replace-my-dolmar-421.289140/


I found it. I was lookin on this site.

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## merc_man (Apr 29, 2017)

Sounds like the 420 was fine but the 421 were prone to this high idle
I got a 420 that has been good so far but i dont have much trigger time with it.

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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

Woodbutcher I think you have more going on than just the saw malfunctioning. From the sound of it the people who've messed with your saw have likely done more harm than good at this point. My guess is carb tuning is the main issue here. And let me be clear, the vast majority of those that think they can tune a saw, can't! If the saw doesn't have an air leak, it has a new carb, good fuel lines, not much else is going to cause these symptoms IMHO. The 421 like many newer saws can be tricky to tune, adjusting poop off pressure is also sometimes required, no big deal. 

The early 420 had some small issues mostly carb related, which is not uncommon right now. All models of saws can have problems, keep in mind people often post issues and complaints before anything else. The 421 has been on the market a while now and I rarely hear of any problems, this little saw is a tank for what it is, and simple as they come.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

Andyshine77 said:


> Woodbutcher I think you have more going on than just the saw malfunctioning. From the sound of it the people who've messed with your saw have likely done more harm than good at this point. My guess is carb tuning is the main issue here. And let me be clear, the vast majority of those that think they can tune a saw, can't! If the saw doesn't have an air leak, it has a new carb, good fuel lines, not much else is going to cause these symptoms IMHO. The 421 like many newer saws can be tricky to tune, adjusting poop off pressure is also sometimes required, no big deal.
> 
> The early 420 had some small issues mostly carb related, which is not uncommon right now. All models of saws can have problems, keep in mind people often post issues and complaints before anything else.


 I'm not sure there is no air leak. Makita tech in Chicago did not do a leak test he said the seals looked good. Must have x-ray vision. As I said earlier there is no mention of an air leak test after the crank seal replacement. The dealer said he did it but it's not on the invoice. The only fuel line replaced was the in tank line. I asked the Makita tech if he replaced the rubber boot behind the carb he said no it looked good. I think the rubber should have been replaced with the carb and all the external fuel lines ( impulse line) cheep to replace should have been done!! The saw definitely does not idle properly. As far as tuning the last guy that tuned it ,you probably read about it, did not use a tach said he didn't need one been tuning saws for 38 years. Of course then he said the problem was the chain was too loose?????? I had to leave after that , hard to contain myself.


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

Why would you just start replacing parts without knowing what is wrong? Why replace the seals without vac/pressure testing the saw first? Why would you replace the intake boot if it checks out? You seem to be trying to diagnose the saw with limited experience, which makes things ever more confusing. IMHO you likely had a small problem, maybe a bad carb, now after 10 people have messed with it who knows. 

Can seals go out that fast or be defective from the factory? Sure, but it's unlikely and you can damage the case "if your a hack" replacing the seals causing a large air leak. Anyway you need someone that knows the basics to have a look at your saw, I think you may have jumped the gun and had an incompetent dealer look at your. It really sounds like it's simply way out of tune. If you were near buy I'd have a look at he saw. 

If I can help in any way just let me know.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

Andyshine77 You could be right about the tuning . Is that what you do? Work on saws? Maybe you would like to take a shot at it! I think it's kinda dumb to have my dealer work on it send it to Chicago so someone else can tinker with it and now send it to Georgia so yet someone else can tinker with it and no one really knows what the other has done . It's the old too many cooks spoil the broth adage . I do construction work and I hate going to a job trying to straighten out someone else's mess


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

The dealer called Makita and they directed him to do everything he did. He called after each procedure and they directed him . He told me he just does what they tell him.I agree they should be testing before replacing. The dealer r said there was an air leak via the"hot" leakdown test. I'm not diagnosing I'm just saying if your gonna replace the carb on a year old saw and the rubber is a known weakness why not do it while it's tore apart . If your gonna throw parts at it why not replace the fuel / impulse lines for a couple bucks while you're replacing in the carb sure cheaper than shipping all over the country.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

Andyshine77 said:


> Why would you just start replacing parts without knowing what is wrong? Why replace the seals without vac/pressure testing the saw first? Why would you replace the intake boot if it checks out? You seem to be trying to diagnose the saw with limited experience, which makes things ever more confusing. IMHO you likely had a small problem, maybe a bad carb, now after 10 people have messed with it who knows.
> 
> Can seals go out that fast or be defective from the factory? Sure, but it's unlikely and you can damage the case "if your a hack" replacing the seals causing a large air leak. Anyway you need someone that knows the basics to have a look at your saw, I think you may have jumped the gun and had an incompetent dealer look at your. It really sounds like it's simply way out of tune. If you were near buy I'd have a look at he saw.
> 
> If I can help in any way just let me know.


Thanks ! I appreciate the offer.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

The 421 has been on the market a while now and I rarely hear of any problems, this little saw is a tank for what it
is, and simple as they come
That's why I chose this saw!


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## sugarbush (Apr 29, 2017)

send it to georgia and hope they send you a new saw. or get yours fixed correctly. messing with your carb isn't the answer. your saws symptoms when you first posted was an air leak. not fuel related. just because your dealer put new seals in doesn't mean there in correctly. makita should have pressure/vac checked the saw, the odds of the carb causing your symptoms is very unlikely.


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

I completely agree! I think the problem here is no good diagnostics have been done . If what the dealer told me is true he called Makita and they told him what to replace, I'm reasonably sure the same thing happened in Chicago , the Makita rep called and said change he carb . The guy calling the shots has never laid hands on the saw nor has he spoken to me about the symptoms !!!Frankly ,I don't know that it will be any different in Georgia. I'm about 98℅ sure they are not going to replace it. When I get it back if it's still not right I'm getting rid of it!!! I've already spent WAY too much time dealing with this.


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## GrassGuerilla (Apr 29, 2017)

This is unreal reallly. I thought this was over when it went to Makita for repairs. Expected your note to help slow the tech down long enough to give your saw a thorough look and repair it properly if not replace it. This shouldn't have happened. Talk about incompetence. Sad to say this has genuinely damaged the brand in my eyes.


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

If you want me to have a look at your saw just shoot me a pm and we'll work something out.

Andre.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


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## CoreyB (Apr 29, 2017)

Like I said a detailed video would of helped. Especially a before and after. No company would want that egg on their face. Hard to dispute showing a problem in ACTION.


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

I agree a video would clue us in at least.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

I don't know how to post a video?


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I don't know how to post a video?


You can upload it to YouTube with a smartphone pretty easily.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

When I try to post it message says file is too large. Bottom line when it idles it's rough and after use ,when it gets warm/hot it stays at a high idle after the cut sometimes higher than others very erratic. Usually a couple pokes on the throttle and it idles down but still rough. The warmer it gets the more it happens. It's pretty strong in the cut at wot. I checked the plug and it's brown not gray . Originally before the seals were replaced it would not idle down until it cooled off


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> When I try to post it message says file is too large. Bottom line when it idles it's rough and after use ,when it gets warm/hot it stays at a high idle after the cut sometimes higher than others very erratic. Usually a couple pokes on the throttle and it idles down but still rough. The warmer it gets the more it happens. It's pretty strong in the cut at wot. I checked the plug and it's brown not gray . Originally before the seals were replaced it would not idle down until it cooled off


It sounds like the saw is probably fine and the carb is way off. Can you post a pick of the chain or the chips it makes?

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

I tried to post a pic ??? Don't know if it worked . Don't k ow what the wood chips have to do with anything???


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2017)

Just got an envelope from the dealer with a shipping label and a return authorization form . The form has a comment on it ,specifying the saw be delivered to the rep that has been calling the shots ,for evaluation. The one that refused to comment on anything with me on the phone.


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## Gugi47 (Apr 29, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> When I try to post it message says file is too large. Bottom line when it idles it's rough and after use ,when it gets warm/hot it stays at a high idle after the cut sometimes higher than others very erratic. Usually a couple pokes on the throttle and it idles down but still rough. The warmer it gets the more it happens. It's pretty strong in the cut at wot. I checked the plug and it's brown not gray . Originally before the seals were replaced it would not idle down until it cooled off





woodbutcher56 said:


> When I try to post it message says file is too large. Bottom line when it idles it's rough and after use ,when it gets warm/hot it stays at a high idle after the cut sometimes higher than others very erratic. Usually a couple pokes on the throttle and it idles down but still rough. The warmer it gets the more it happens. It's pretty strong in the cut at wot. I checked the plug and it's brown not gray . Originally before the seals were replaced it would not idle down until it cooled off



Post it in YouTube and post the live link here.


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 29, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I tried to post a pic ??? Don't know if it worked . Don't k ow what the wood chips have to do with anything???



If a saws ran with a dull chain it ca overheat the engine and everything, it is a saw killer. A video would really help. Have you checked if the throttle butterfly is properly returning to idle? sometimes the cable linkage can hangup.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 1, 2017)

Packed up the saw , return authorization form,a brief outline of events and a short letter to the rep and dropped it at the FedEx drop location logged another 30miles which puts me at 396 miles. Issues started Feb 17 !


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

Well it's May 12 the FedEx man just dropped off a package from Makita , Mount Prospect Illinois. It's a new EA4300FRDB chainsaw. There was no correspondence from Dolmar/Makita. I sent my saw the sent this one. I attached a pic ,note it says made in China on the sticker WTF!!!! I really don't know what to make of this?? Apparently there are no more German made 421's???


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## cuinrearview (May 12, 2017)

Didn't you want a new saw all along?


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## pro94lt (May 12, 2017)

Wow


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## 7sleeper (May 12, 2017)

As far as I understood they are now assembeld in china.For me nothing wrong with that at all. 

7


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

I just got off the phone with @fordf150 he tells me that 421/4300 and smaller are now assembled in China and as far as he knows the parts still come from Germany. Any way , so ends the 421 saga I guess we'll never know what was wrong with it! It took nearly 3 months but I have a saw that I assume will function as it is intended!!


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## 7sleeper (May 12, 2017)

Send it to @fordf150 to have the carb set right. 

7


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

I plan on taking it down to him to set up before I use it.


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## sugarbush (May 12, 2017)

good to here you got a new saw. as far as the tune, all iv'e sold has been set where they should be. run 5-6 tanks through it then have him check it. but after the problems you've had you may feel better letting him check it out on start-up.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

He suggested I bring it down to make sure it was right. It's worth the trip for peace of mind and if I have any troubles that's where it will go. I learned a hard lesson with the local dealers.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

I know it sounds petty but it really bothers me that I bought a German made Dolmar and now have a China assembled Makita! So it goes!!!


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## sugarbush (May 12, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I know it sounds petty but it really bothers me that I bought a German made Dolmar and now have a China assembled Makita! So it goes!!!


i have a new teal colored 4300 i would swap for yours. made in GERMANY.


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## fordf150 (May 12, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> As far as I understood they are now assembled in china.For me nothing wrong with that at all.
> 
> 7


been assembled there for the last 5-6 months. Bugs me just because i liked selling made in Germany saws and customers liked buying them but other than that i have no issues with it. No fear of quality being different. 

I'm sure Makita could have continued assembling them in Germany if they wanted to lay out the money for a new plant and more workers, but would people willingly pay that extra $40-80 that those investments would have mandated? Somehow i doubt it. dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, extra costs that people may not want to pay if they continued building there or maintain the same price point that they have had for 10 yrs and assemble them in china. I think i prefer the continued $320 price point knowing that the PS-32 has been assembled there for years and we have had zero issues with them.


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## pro94lt (May 12, 2017)

Dolmar had a good thing going... not anymore. I'll not try a Chinese makita.


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## GrassGuerilla (May 12, 2017)

pro94lt said:


> Dolmar had a good thing going... not anymore. I'll not try a Chinese makita.


Everybody's doing it... Chinese Stihls too. Not sure but I'm guessing Husky has some China models or will soon.


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## 7sleeper (May 12, 2017)

pro94lt said:


> Dolmar had a good thing going... not anymore. I'll not try a Chinese makita.


Well then throw away your car, mobile phone, tv, pad, etc. Hardly a chance of not having any chinese made parts inside or completely made in china. Start learning to forge your own stuff, but don't forget that chinese steel is being dumped onto us shores, so hardly a chance there.

7


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

When I asked the local dealer about it this afternoon he said the plastic is made in China all other parts are still German and he said the saws are assembled in the new Buford Georgia Plant??? Don't know where he gets his info from. I would think if they were assembled in Georgia the sticker would read made in the USA.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> Well then throw away your car, mobile phone, tv, pad, etc. Hardly a chance of not having any chinese made parts inside or completely made in china. Start learning to forge your own stuff, but don't forget that chinese steel is being dumped onto us shores, so hardly a chance there.
> 
> 7


Sad but true


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

sugarbush said:


> i have a new teal colored 4300 i would swap for yours. made in GERMANY.[/QUOTE
> No Dolmars left ?


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## merc_man (May 12, 2017)

May wanna swap for the teal one if it would give you more peace of mind knowing it was built in germany.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## dugide (May 12, 2017)

the one you had from germany didn't work out to good for you, maybe the chinese built one is better.


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## fordf150 (May 12, 2017)

GrassGuerilla said:


> Everybody's doing it... Chinese Stihls too. Not sure but I'm guessing Husky has some China models or will soon.


chinese built stihl trimmers is all i know about but they have Brazil cast cylinders even on pro saws......china is the well known off shore assembly/manufacturer but what about brazil, its not like they are known for quality or humane treatment of its citizens or even their great stewardship of the environment.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...razilian-police-human-rights-crisis-un-review
http://www.copenhagenconsensus.com/publication/brazil-perspectives-air-pollution

India is another big up and coming off shoring country...they arent any better.

Its something we might as well get used to especially as US consumers because we demand the lowest possible price on everything and lots of it, that leaves few options for companies that want to be competitive in the USA market. They must cut costs, that either comes from squeezing the supply chain, lower cost labor, lower cost of doing business, lower cost of regulations or a combination of 2 or more of these items. China, Brazil, India, Mexico or a plethora of other countries are much cheaper and easier to do business in than the US or EU.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 12, 2017)

merc_man said:


> May wanna swap for the teal one if it would give you more peace of mind knowing it was built in germany.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


Not a big fan of the real. If I swap it will be for another brand.


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## porsche965 (May 12, 2017)

My Husky Dealer has sold (by mistake now) his inventory of Swedish 390s to other Dealers that have told him that their new 390s coming in are stamped on the metal tag Brazil. 

They are getting an extra Franklin for the Swedish tagged saws. It's becoming everywhere.


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## pro94lt (May 12, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> Well then throw away your car, mobile phone, tv, pad, etc. Hardly a chance of not having any chinese made parts inside or completely made in china. Start learning to forge your own stuff, but don't forget that chinese steel is being dumped onto us shores, so hardly a chance there.
> 
> 7


I know what your saying but when theirs a ms241 or 543xp I'll just stick to them...


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## pro94lt (May 12, 2017)

porsche965 said:


> My Husky Dealer has sold (by mistake now) his inventory of Swedish 390s to other Dealers that have told him that their new 390s coming in are stamped on the metal tag Brazil.
> 
> They are getting an extra Franklin for the Swedish tagged saws. It's becoming everywhere.


Brazil?


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## porsche965 (May 12, 2017)

That's what I was told. I have not seen the metal tagged 390s myself. Yet.


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## Andyshine77 (May 12, 2017)

They've always made some of smaller models in China when supplies were low in the past, but only when supplies were low. One thing is for sure, I don't particularly care for it. Sure Stihl and others have a lot of parts coming from China, and it's pretty obvious IMHO.

Sure I hear the whole to be comparative garbage all the time, many companies have proven that line to be total BS, thats just what companies want you to believe. Fact is it's often more cost effective to manufacture here, or in Europe.

Anyway glad you have a new saw.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


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## TBS (May 12, 2017)

pro94lt said:


> I know what your saying but when theirs a ms241 or 543xp I'll just stick to them...



Both of those are nice saws I just wish the 543xp was sold as what it really is and that is a zenoah gz4300. In my experience it doesn't perform any better than its older less expensive siblings gz4500 and gz400/4000


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## Doug Fir (May 12, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> Well then throw away your car, mobile phone, tv, pad, etc. Hardly a chance of not having any chinese made parts inside or completely made in china. Start learning to forge your own stuff, but don't forget that chinese steel is being dumped onto us shores, so hardly a chance there.
> 
> 7



I don't agree with your point of view. You are carrying the argument to an absurd extreme. I wouldn't buy a Chinese-made automobile, but that doesn't mean that I should avoid an Audi because it contains a few Chinese-made bolts and other parts. There is an important difference in degree. It's not about avoiding any bit of Chinese content. It's about where (and whether) one should draw the line.

Doug


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## Doug Fir (May 12, 2017)

fordf150 said:


> ... I'm sure Makita could have continued assembling them in Germany if they wanted to lay out the money for a new plant and more workers, but would people willingly pay that extra $40-80 that those investments would have mandated? Somehow i doubt it. ...



Makita clearly agrees with you, and I suspect that they (and you) are right. Even if consumers are willing to pay a bit more for a German-made saw, the premium they are willing to pay may be less than the difference in production cost. 

I hope that you are also right about the quality of these Chinese-made Makitas. 

Doug


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## 7sleeper (May 13, 2017)

Doug Fir said:


> I don't agree with your point of view. You are carrying the argument to an absurd extreme. I wouldn't buy a Chinese-made automobile, but that doesn't mean that I should avoid an Audi because it contains a few Chinese-made bolts and other parts. There is an important difference in degree. It's not about avoiding any bit of Chinese content. It's about where (and whether) one should draw the line.
> 
> Doug


_*"few parts" *_is sadly an illusion and the reason is quite simple, china has by far the largest amout of rare metalls on earth(required for all modern electronics!) and they *DON'T* share! And electronics are the brain and nerve system in modern automobiles. Bolts and other parts can be manufactured in other countries were complete automization is available. 

7


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## Doug Fir (May 13, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> _*"few parts" *_is sadly an illusion and the reason is quite simple, china has by far the largest amout of rare metalls on earth(required for all modern electronics!) and they *DON'T* share! And electronics are the brain and nerve system in modern automobiles. Bolts and other parts can be manufactured in other countries were complete automization is available.
> 
> 7



While the electronics in a modern automobile are important, they represent only a very small share of the total value added. There is no meaningful sense in which an Audi is a Chinese-made car. The vast majority of the value added is not Chinese. That is not an illusion, it's a fact. While one cannot avoid all Chinese content, it is certainly possible to avoid buying a Chinese-made car. 

And by the way, while it's a minor point, it's not entirely accurate to claim that China "doesn't share" its rare metals. While China places restrictions on legal exports there is a large quantity of illegal exports flooding the global market, helping to keep prices low. This has discouraged other countries from producing rare metals. China's very large market share is not driven by geology, as it only has a little over a third of the world's rare earth reserves. Production in other countries can increase if necessary, and in fact there has been some increase in production elsewhere driven by concerns that China could crack down on illegal exports. If China actually does shut off illegal exports the trickle of rare metals from other countries will turn into a flood. 

Doug


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## hood river (May 13, 2017)

I have been following this thread in the background and it has been a rollercoaster....

No more Dolmar badged saws and they wanted you to go away?

This was posted on May 7th, and is still active.....

https://eugene.craigslist.org/grd/6103179135.html
CHAINSAWS DOLMAR the German made FIRST chainsaw saw built in the world is now owned by MAKITA who has been making tools for over 100 years. They are constructed with MAGNESIUM not PLASTIC LIKE OTHER WELL KNOWN BRANDS. Who ever heard of building half an engine out of plastic ? MAKITA has six magnesium built engines sizes , Rancher and PRO series 43cc to 79 cc once again built the old way , out of metal.
The sales Rep. has arranged an up coming 20% off SALE two days only call Bob for dates and details.
Only the name is changing , the DOLMAR COLOR AND QUALITY will stay the same . Call now and save


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## woodbutcher56 (May 14, 2017)

Road trip yesterday to my dealer the replacement saw has been test fired and tuned ! Ready to go! The Woods'is so wet here you need muck Boots to get in, might be a few days until I can put it in the wood. I was seriously considering trading it for a jred 2252 or husky 545. Still in the back of my mind, I'll ponder it while waiting on the woods to dry up. That's the latest!


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## moondoggie (May 14, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Road trip yesterday to my dealer the replacement saw has been test fired and tuned ! Ready to go! The Woods'is so wet here you need muck Boots to get in, might be a few days until I can put it in the wood. I was seriously considering trading it for a jred 2252 or husky 545. Still in the back of my mind, I'll ponder it while waiting on the woods to dry up. That's the latest!


Congratulations!!! 

500 posts later


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## Chris-PA (May 14, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Road trip yesterday to my dealer


Which dealer?


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## woodbutcher56 (May 14, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> Which dealer?


Performance Outdoor Equipment


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## Khntr85 (May 16, 2017)

This is the craziest thread ever, I just remembered it and re-found it....you just now got the saw, I literally don't know wether to laugh, cry, pull my hair out, or get into fetal position and rock back and forth while petting my ms461....you sir, should write a book!!!!!


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## Doug Fir (May 16, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> This is the craziest thread ever, I just remembered it and re-found it....you just now got the saw, I literally don't know wether to laugh, cry, pull my hair out, or get into fetal position and rock back and forth with while petting my ms461....you sir, should write a book!!!!!



If there's a lesson here I suppose it's that dealers matter. Had Woodbutcher purchased from Nate (Performance Outdoor Equipment) in the first place the problem would have been solved with far less drama.

Live and learn.

Doug


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## LittleLebowski (May 17, 2017)

Doug Fir said:


> If there's a lesson here I suppose it's that dealers matter. Had Woodbutcher purchased from Nate (Performance Outdoor Equipment) in the first place the problem would have been solved with far less drama.
> 
> Live and learn.
> 
> Doug



Yup, but glad he's been made whole finally. I bought from Nate the first time, no issues, no regrets.


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## nitehawk55 (May 17, 2017)

Having been on the inside with Stihl Canada in the tech dept. we had to deal with these same situations where the customer was unhappy and the dealer totally messed up . In most cases we would do the repair in house and it was done right , rarely did a saw get replaced unless the cause of the failure was "uncommon" and Stihl engineers wanted to look into it . Our dealers were required to take factory training at our facility and with these schools I saw lots of issues with dealers who did not do proper diagnostics which is key , too often a new piston or jug was slapped on a saw by a dealer and returned to the owner only to have the same happen again.....this quickly makes a product (any product) look bad . In some cases if the dealers did not improve their servicing and we continued to have "issues" with them they were pulled . 
It's clear Makita doesn't have a network like Stihl does , that dealer would have been gone .


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## holeycow (May 17, 2017)

perhaps Dolmar engineers eventually wanted to look at this one, notwithstanding the dealer dropping the ball...


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## nitehawk55 (May 18, 2017)

Bottom line is that the dealer is the one who makes a product look good or bad by how they look after a customer . 
Unfortunately the OP in this case did not realise just how bad this dealer was at proper servicing and being honest . Thankfully Makita did come thru in the end to take care of it .


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## woodbutcher56 (May 20, 2017)

The saw still hasn't been used ! Seriously considering trading it in on a Jred 2252 or Husky 545 maybe an Echo 501p ( just to avoid the AT) Anyone interested??


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## nitehawk55 (May 21, 2017)

If the saw was checked out by Ford150 I would keep it , don't let the fact it was assembled in China bug you . 
I'm sure Dolmar or Makita is on top of QC . I have a 421 Dolmar and it's awesome , have a 501 Echo as well and it's a great saw too but if you already have a 50cc why have 2 ?


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## woodbutcher56 (May 21, 2017)

I figured a 2252 is lighter and smaller and I'm told stronger in the cut and with a 16" bar would be an upgrade from the 4300 ,421 performing the same tasks.
I seriously doubt the QC is equal to that in the German facility! It's hard to get an underpaid impoverished workforce to take pride in their work . They do it because they are forced to do it.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 21, 2017)

I found this interesting!! The oil on the right is the old Dolmar oil (no longer available) on the left is new Makita oil that replaced the Dolmar. The manual on the bottom is the Dolmar I got with the 421 the top is the manual from the Makita. Note the old oil is FD rated the old manual calls for FC . The new oil is FC rated and the new manual calls for FD?? Pics attached.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 21, 2017)

Apparently the pics of the manual didn't come thru above. So here it is.


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## Khntr85 (May 21, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> I figured a 2252 is lighter and smaller and I'm told stronger in the cut and with a 16" bar would be an upgrade from the 421 performing the same tasks.
> I seriously doubt the QC is equal to that in the German facility! It's hard to get an underpaid impoverished workforce to take pride in their work . They do it because they are forced to do it.


Hello sir, I have read all this saga, I will be honest, I am lost.....

Do you have the saw in hand????

Have you used the saw since getting it back???

If you can answer yes to either of these 2-questions, how does the saw run????


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## woodbutcher56 (May 21, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Hello sir, I have read all this saga, I will be honest, I am lost.....
> 
> Do you have the saw in hand????
> 
> ...


Makita kept the 421 with the problems and sent me a Makita 4300 which I took to a dealer I trust and had him test fire and tune the saw. I have it now but have not used it ,the only time it has been run is at the dealer.


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## Khntr85 (May 21, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Makita kept the 421 with the problems and sent me a Makita 4300 which I took to a dealer I trust and had him test fire and tune the saw. I have it now but have not used it ,the only time it has been run is at the dealer.


Thanks for clearing it up to me!!!

I can not believe after all that ****, you never got to run a 421....

Are these saws the same size cc and quality...I know nothing about either brand!!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (May 21, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Thanks for clearing it up to me!!!
> 
> I can not believe after all that ****, you never got to run a 421....
> 
> Are these saws the same size cc and quality...I know nothing about either brand!!!!


My original saw that I had problems with was a Dolmar PS 421 I had it for a year before the problems started. The dealer I bought the saw from and Makita ( who took over Dolmar) could not seem to fix the saw so Makita finally sent me a replacement saw a Makita 4300 which replaced the Dolmar 421 no longer available.The Dolmar was made in Germany the Makita is made in China.


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## rmh3481 (May 22, 2017)

Amazing. Certainly not the foot that Makita would want to start out on especially given the recent name change from Dolmar. I hope the new 4300 works out for you.


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## GeorgiaVol (May 22, 2017)

Out of curiosity, what is manufactured at the Georgia facility?


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## woodbutcher56 (May 22, 2017)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Out of curiosity, what is manufactured at the Georgia facility?


It says made in China on the label . If it was made in Georgia I would think it would say made in USA. I was told that 40 cc and under Makitas are all now assembled in China. I'm not aware of any being assembled in Georgia. I'm not saying none are assembled there just not that I'm aware of.


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## Khntr85 (May 22, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> My original saw that I had problems with was a Dolmar PS 421 I had it for a year before the problems started. The dealer I bought the saw from and Makita ( who took over Dolmar) could not seem to fix the saw so Makita finally sent me a replacement saw a Makita 4300 which replaced the Dolmar 421 no longer available.The Dolmar was made in Germany the Makita is made in China.


Oh I forgot or mis-read, I thought these problems started as you first used the saw...


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## 7sleeper (May 22, 2017)

I find this thread becomming quite paranoid. Not trusting chinese made products... How stupid is that? Don't buy any electronics, don't drive in a car, don't ever get operated because it is highly lickely that parts or the whole product were / was made in china.

Welcome to the real world...

Last comment on this looney tuney thread.

Good luck!

7


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## GeorgiaVol (May 22, 2017)

I tried to avoid Chinese made toys for my kids one year. Literally impossible unless you like wooden toys. Lol. Chinese made products are just a way of life.


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## GeorgiaVol (May 22, 2017)

Btw, I work in manufacturing. Our machines are made from components from all over the globe. Engines, transmissions, electronics come from USA. We get a lot of Chinese parts. Rarely have issues with them though.


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## Doug Fir (May 22, 2017)

7sleeper said:


> I find this thread becomming quite paranoid. Not trosting chinese made products... How stupid is that? Don't buy any electronics, don't drive in a car, don't ever get operated because it is highly lickely that parts or the whole product were / was made in china.
> 
> Welcome to the real world...
> 
> ...



It's not all or nothing. Many products contain some Chinese content, but the amount of Chinese content varies considerably across brands and models. You seem to be saying that since Chinese content can't be avoided entirely, people shouldn't concern themselves with the amount of Chinese content. This is illogical. With all due respect, the only thing "stupid" or "looney tuney" about this thread is your simple-minded analysis.

Doug


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## woodbutcher56 (May 22, 2017)

GeorgiaVol said:


> Out of curiosity, what is manufactured at the Georgia facility?


Not sure anything is manufactured there , the shipping label had ' call center ' written on it ????


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## GeorgiaVol (May 22, 2017)

They make something. It is a plant. Just not sure what


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## Doug Fir (May 22, 2017)

GeorgiaVol said:


> I tried to avoid Chinese made toys for my kids one year. Literally impossible unless you like wooden toys. Lol. Chinese made products are just a way of life.



It's true that Chinese products are a fact of life. It's not really possible to avoid all Chinese content. But while even German-made cars contain some Chinese components, there is a big difference between an Audi sedan and a Donfeng sedan in terms of the amount of Chinese content. There is no meaningful sense in which the Audi sedan is a Chinese-made car. 

In the real world people do in fact have options. They can choose to buy a car with relatively less Chinese content. The same applies to chain saws. 

Doug


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## GeorgiaVol (May 22, 2017)

I totally agree with that. If I buy a new Poulan I assume it's made in China. Now if I shop for a $1000 Stihl, I expect it to be made in Germany. Its just whatever you are willing to spend for something


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## Doug Fir (May 22, 2017)

GeorgiaVol said:


> They make something. It is a plant. Just not sure what



They make power tools at their Buford plant. Which ones? Well, based on this photo from the plant, at a minimum they make compound miter saws:







I would guess that they also make drills and other construction tools. It's a big plant.

Doug


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## Kostas (May 22, 2017)

Doug Fir said:


> It's true that Chinese products are a fact of life. It's not really possible to avoid all Chinese content. But while even German-made cars contain some Chinese components, there is a big difference between an Audi sedan and a Donfeng sedan in terms of the amount of Chinese content. There is no meaningful sense in which the Audi sedan is a Chinese-made car.
> 
> In the real world people do in fact have options. They can choose to buy a car with relatively less Chinese content. The same applies to chain saws.
> 
> Doug



I think you are wrong.I work for an automotive spare parts shop.Audi or VW or Peugeot etc use Bosch or Valeo or Hella etc.If Hella or Valeo decide to build a factory in China,that doesn't mean that Audi cars contain Chinese parts.It is a completelly different thing.It's all about specifications and quality control.What i am trying to say is that Hella's or Valeo's quality control and specifications are the same,no matter the location.Apple products label:"Designed in California Assembled in China".Quality control and specs are from Cupertino and the final product is perfect.Dont' get confused by made in China labels.


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## middleagemutant (May 22, 2017)

Put the wood to her and see how she runs


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## Doug Fir (May 22, 2017)

Kostas said:


> I think you are wrong.I work for an automotive spare parts shop.Audi or VW or Peugeot etc use Bosch or Valeo or Hella etc.If Hella or Valeo decide to build a factory in China,that doesn't mean that Audi cars contain Chinese parts.It is a completelly different thing.It's all about specifications and quality control.What i am trying to say is that Hella's or Valeo's quality control and specifications are the same,no matter the location.Apple products label:"Designed in California Assembled in China".Quality control and specs are from Cupertino and the final product is perfect.Dont' get confused by made in China labels.



Some components made in China may be as good as (or even better than) the same components made elsewhere, whether they are built in a manufacturer's own plant or outsourced to a third party. But that doesn't change the fact that they are Chinese made. All cars contain some components that are made in China.

While some Chinese-made components are great, not all attempts to offshore production to China are successful in terms of quality control, in spite of the best efforts of manufacturers. There are plenty of case studies of failed attempts to maintain quality. In some cases production has been shifted back out of China as a result of quality control problems. The lesson from years of experience is that shifting production to China is always a bit risky. From a quality standpoint it may work out great, but that is not always the case. You can't just assume that because a manufacturer tries to maintain the same standards that they will be successful. And by the way, while Apple has been a success story, their final products certainly are not "perfect". 

Finally, it's not just about quality control. People have a variety of reasons for wanting to reduce their purchases of Chinese-made goods, including political reasons. I won't rehash all of these.

Doug


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## nov0798 (May 24, 2017)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Just a side note. This problem didn't start until I changed the spark plug?? I don't see how that could have anything to do with it. Maybe a coincidence! Could it be getting warm and pulling air from around the crush washer on the plug????



Not sure if this issue was resolved or not but did you replace the plug with the same plug? If not the heat range on the plug may be incorrect which could cause issues. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (May 25, 2017)

nov0798 said:


> Not sure if this issue was resolved or not but did you replace the plug with the same plug? If not the heat range on the plug may be incorrect which could cause issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OEM replacement from the dealer.


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## Kostas (May 25, 2017)

Doug Fir said:


> Some components made in China may be as good as (or even better than) the same components made elsewhere, whether they are built in a manufacturer's own plant or outsourced to a third party. But that doesn't change the fact that they are Chinese made. All cars contain some components that are made in China.
> 
> While some Chinese-made components are great, not all attempts to offshore production to China are successful in terms of quality control, in spite of the best efforts of manufacturers. There are plenty of case studies of failed attempts to maintain quality. In some cases production has been shifted back out of China as a result of quality control problems. The lesson from years of experience is that shifting production to China is always a bit risky. From a quality standpoint it may work out great, but that is not always the case. You can't just assume that because a manufacturer tries to maintain the same standards that they will be successful. And by the way, while Apple has been a success story, their final products certainly are not "perfect".
> 
> ...



This is completely irrelevant with quality.Also first thing is that we are way offtopic and second this conversation can go really far away.Anyway,when a manufacturer decide to choose a Chinece to biuld a product for him,i think that gives the Chinese the specifications and the manufacturer tests the quality of the final product.If the product is within specs,goes to the costumer,if not goes back to the beginning.Many people think that the manufacturer only order the part and the Chinese are responsible for everything,they just execute orders,they don't have a word to anything.FAG hub bearings are top notch in aftermarket,no matter if they say made in Canada or made in Mexico or what ever.NSK bearings are also exceptional no matter if they say made in Japan or made in Poland or made in China(i've seen a NSK bearing with made in China print on it).

On the other hand i admit that there are many cases where some manufactures moved to China makers to reduce production cost and it can be seen on the final product.Although,those cases are the exception and not the rule.


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## woodbutcher56 (May 25, 2017)

Bottom line is this! I researched , chose Dolmar , sought out a Dolmar dealer, because I wanted a German made Dolmar saw. The saw was defective ,the dealer was not able to repair it , Makita was unable to repair it and now I have a Makita saw made in China. Just for the record if the Dolmar saw had been made in China I would not have purchased it!!!


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## woodbutcher56 (May 25, 2017)

As far as Chinese build quality compared to German build quality that remains to be seen!!


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## 7sleeper (May 25, 2017)

Haven't read of any negative experiences in german or us forums sofar. 

7


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## nitehawk55 (May 25, 2017)

OP I read through this whole mess and while you did get a saw that had issues your manner and attitude in handling this whole thing leaves one saying....."really"?
There is not a thing wrong with this NEW replacement saw except how you see it in your mind , get over it .


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## KenJax Tree (May 25, 2017)

My Dad has a German made Dolmar 421 he asked me to try and sell. He's had it about a year and a half or 2 years ago and used it twice (about a tank and a half of 40:1 Trufuel). He has glaucoma and can no longer use a saw.

He wants $250 plus shipping from Michigan. The saw is like brand new, and comes with 2 bars and 2 chains. The CAT is out of the muffler.


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## merc_man (May 25, 2017)

Woodbucher have you tried the new saw yet? 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## woodbutcher56 (May 25, 2017)

Nope! Only time it has been run was to test fire and tune at the dealer. It's been rainy here and I'm still not sure if I want to keep it.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 16, 2017)

nitehawk55 said:


> OP I read through this whole mess and while you did get a saw that had issues your manner and attitude in handling this whole thing leaves one saying....."really"?
> There is not a thing wrong with this NEW replacement saw except how you see it in your mind , get over it .


You read all 28 pages and question the *OP's* state of mind? The poster doth protest too much, me thinks.


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## David Rogers (Apr 29, 2018)

Sorry to pull an old thread back from the dead but.... Did you try the new one out?


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2018)

Never ran it!! Sold it !


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## cuinrearview (Apr 29, 2018)

Built a 420 for my lady over the winter. Fantastic saw!


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## r black (Apr 29, 2018)

cuinrearview said:


> Built a 420 for my lady over the winter. Fantastic saw!


just sold my minty 420  miss it already ---perfect go to easy starting saw ....


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## woodbutcher56 (Apr 29, 2018)

I still have a 5105 ,great saw , lots of power ,easy start!!!
I bought a new Echo 501p to replace the makita 421. The guy that bought the 421 loves it.


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## cuinrearview (Apr 29, 2018)

I feel like someone wouldn't appreciate a 420/1 until they worked on one. Everything is so tight and thought out with it.


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## holeycow (Apr 29, 2018)

A very nice little saw indeed.


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## holeycow (Apr 30, 2018)

r black said:


> just sold my minty 420  miss it already ---perfect go to easy starting saw ....



Ran my 420 today. It had been sitting for a few months. 4 squirts on the primer bulb, 1 pull with choke on, one pull with choke off, kick her off high idle and purring like a lion. Smooth, effortless.

I never want to be without a 420/421. I want another just to make sure of that.


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## fordf150 (Apr 30, 2018)

holeycow said:


> Ran my 420 today. It had been sitting for a few months. 4 squirts on the primer bulb, 1 pull with choke on, one pull with choke off, kick her off high idle and purring like a lion. Smooth, effortless.
> 
> *I never want to be without a 420/421. I want another just to make sure of that.*





I am the same way....if i ever crush my 4300 i wont even wait to repair it, I'll just grab a new one


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## merc_man (Apr 30, 2018)

Mine sat for just over 3 years and i just got it out again. It was idling on the third pull.


holeycow said:


> Ran my 420 today. It had been sitting for a few months. 4 squirts on the primer bulb, 1 pull with choke on, one pull with choke off, kick her off high idle and purring like a lion. Smooth, effortless.
> 
> I never want to be without a 420/421. I want another just to make sure of that.



Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## middleagemutant (May 1, 2018)

I bought the 421 off of Wood butcher love the saw 2 pulls and she goes runs awesome dare I say it I like it better than the johnsered 2253 of course the 2253 has more snot but I love that 421 runs awesome


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## KenJax Tree (May 1, 2018)

I have my 421 for sale in the trader.


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