# Campfire wood bundles



## Guswhit (Jul 28, 2014)

Here's a question That hopefully someone here can answer. I happen to have a pretty good gig selling campfire wood. All I have to do is split it down to size from a stock pile of wood already precut and leave it in a pile. They bundle it and sell it, keep track of bundles and that is how I charge, some years I end up having to bring in more wood because they didn't get enough from the previous winter, but that is another story. Anyway, the question is, "They want me to start bundling the wood in shrink wrapped form", so what does anyone think this might add per bundle, for wrapping(labor and wrap material)?


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## zogger (Jul 28, 2014)

Depends on how you are doing it, with a commercial or good qualitty home made wrapper, or by hand. I have done some by hand..I would want a buck a bundle to do that.

Commercial wrappers cost some loot, you would have to recoup that sometime, plus buying the wrap plastic by the big roll.


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## Guswhit (Jul 28, 2014)

Good points. Lets just not get carried away with figures. I'm looking for someones knowledge that has actually wrapped before because they should know how much it costs them too wrap. I know how much a good commercial machine costs and approx. how many bundles you can wrap per roll of film. I don't know how many bundles you can do per hour, how many hours you can sustain the rate of production.


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## 066blaster (Jul 28, 2014)

It would come down to what you are using. I have seen bundler s from 700 to 2000 or or a shallow wooden box you set the wood in upright and wrap it, costs 5 bucks. The shrink wrap is cheap. How was it being bundled? What are you getting now per bundle? What are they charging per bundle? What kind of quantity are you doing. That all matters


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## sb47 (Jul 28, 2014)

I don't bundle anymore. It's cheaper and easier to just charge by the stick. They can pick there own from a pre set pile.
I have a roll of cheap twine if they want to tie it up in a bundle.


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## Guswhit (Jul 29, 2014)

Okay..... specific's. I supply 3 large campgrounds firewood. They do not allow wood to be brought in. Of course they don't search peoples campers, but if they see it in the open in the back of a truck they will make you turn around. One of the campgrounds is very large, land wise, so they get culls and dead trees every year that I process on site for them. It is cut to size in 1 area, I come in and split at my leisure and leave the wood piled. The park personal have helpers that bundle it, stock the selling areas and sell it. They keep track of the bundles, I keep track of my time and then I send a bill every month(May-October). The new plan is to have me take care of the bundling and so the park personal have more time to do other things. They have not kept track of the time it takes them to accomplish the task of bundling over the years, and they don't have an automatic machine. I would purchase a machine to up the process, I'm just trying to put some kind of number together to add to my current per bundle charge, not that I think I can squeeze any more time to do it.


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## 066blaster (Jul 29, 2014)

Can you use the same technique they were using to bundle it what ever that may be? Kind off a weird situation. Their wood. No hauling. Sounds like they are willing to pay you to not deal with it themselves. Get what you can.


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## qweesdraw (Jul 30, 2014)

Find A BAR STOOL (SWIVEL) mount a tire rim to the size bundle you want.
Add wood bungee the tops.
Make an 90 degree from plumbing steel pipe mounted with a pipe flange epoxy the joints.(to hold the wrap)
It sounds simple but it will take about 6 hours to make
I use 18" pallet wrap cut in 1/2 with a very sharp chainsaw.
Always make perfect 16"cuts with a stick and chaulk or a Mingo marker.
There is alot more work to bundle wood that many think.
Split your logs small as air space is your friend!


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## farmer steve (Jul 30, 2014)

Guswhit said:


> Here's a question That hopefully someone here can answer. I happen to have a pretty good gig selling campfire wood. All I have to do is split it down to size from a stock pile of wood already precut and leave it in a pile. They bundle it and sell it, keep track of bundles and that is how I charge, some years I end up having to bring in more wood because they didn't get enough from the previous winter, but that is another story. Anyway, the question is, "They want me to start bundling the wood in shrink wrapped form", so what does anyone think this might add per bundle, for wrapping(labor and wrap material)?


read your post this morning and thought of you. just saw this at the gas station and thought this might work. the guy sells to campgrounds. the bags are 25 lb. onion bags. i ask him what the cubic foot amt. was but he couldn't tell me. he said they weigh about 10 lbs. failed to ask him his price. i know a guy that uses those bags for onions and will check on a price per bag.


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## zogger (Jul 30, 2014)

farmer steve said:


> read your post this morning and thought of you. just saw this at the gas station and thought this might work. the guy sells to campgrounds. the bags are 25 lb. onion bags. i ask him what the cubic foot amt. was but he couldn't tell me. he said they weigh about 10 lbs. failed to ask him his price. i know a guy that uses those bags for onions and will check on a price per bag.
> View attachment 361550



I do bags and bundles (small scale just for now..real small..I am seeing if this could be a viable business or not) My bags cost 35 cent apiece, bought them online off a seed company, small bale of one hundred bags. Surprisingly small cardboard box they shipped in. Mine will hold .75cu/ft if you stuff them well. Sort of a PITA. I use them for chunked up cook wood.


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## Guswhit (Jul 30, 2014)

farmer steve said:


> read your post this morning and thought of you. just saw this at the gas station and thought this might work. the guy sells to campgrounds. the bags are 25 lb. onion bags. i ask him what the cubic foot amt. was but he couldn't tell me. he said they weigh about 10 lbs. failed to ask him his price. i know a guy that uses those bags for onions and will check on a price per bag.
> View attachment 361550



Bags are 30-35 cents each buying them in lots of 500 around me. The campground used to use these bought the stretch wrap was cheaper they said. I just wonder how long it takes to fill one of those or to wrap a bundle with stretch wrap.


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## Wood Doctor (Jul 30, 2014)

When it comes to bundling campfire logs, nothing is cheaper than bailing twine that you can buy at TSC or Farm and Fleet and a 5" long garden hose length that you cut from an old leaky hose than people give you for nothing. However, you have to know how to tie a Boy Scout knot and figure that 10 to 12 bundles an hour is your maximum output.

The alternative is to spend $3000 on a commercial bundle machine and buy a bunch of plastic. Figure on at least a 5-year payback and don't forget your truck, splitter, chainsaw, labor help, and fuel cost. I have never met a man selling firewood bundles who is serious about making a ton of dough while doing it.. Nice hobby, however.

My biggest gripe is that theft abounds and there is little that you can do about that.


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## zogger (Jul 30, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> When it comes to bundling campfire logs, nothing is cheaper than bailing twine that you can buy at TSC or Farm and Fleet and a 5" long garden hose length that you cut from an old leaky hose than people give you for nothing. However, you have to know how to tie a Boy Scout knot and figure that 10 to 12 bundles an hour is your maximum output.
> 
> The alternative is to spend $3000 on a commercial bundle machine and buy a bunch of plastic. Figure on at least a 5-year payback and don't forget your truck, splitter, chainsaw, labor help, and fuel cost. I have never met a man selling firewood bundles who is serious about making a ton of dough while doing it.. Nice hobby, however.
> 
> My biggest gripe is that theft abounds and there is little that you can do about that.



One member here is doing OK selling bundles..

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/part-time-firewood-sales.259088/#post-4897802

I have baling twine and thought about using it, but a cheap roll of stretchie plastic was...hmm, cheap, I forget now, six or eight bucks, the shortie rolls with built in handle at home despot, and so was getting a small bale of mesh bags, 35 bucks for one hundred of them.

Wrapping sucks but it isn't too bad, and running the numbers, it is a lot more per cord than selling bulk cords.

I just wanted to play with it myself to see if there was any possibility of a market, seeing as how I have access to so much wood.

If I had a real job, full time that paid well already, nope, wouldn't fool with it. I have spare time here and there, but can't go anyplace to work another job, so..I have some extra wood. Testing the waters now, and that's all the money I am putting into it, one bale of bags, maybe two rolls of stretch wrap.


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## CRThomas (Aug 4, 2014)

I bundle firewood Ash 8 sticks to the bundle. My two wrappers cost $1100.00 for one straight hand crank The other electric $2200.00. The bundles cost $93.00 for a box of four shipping all so. I do about 10 bundles a hour that from start to finish not just bundling but from tree to finish product not delivered though. If I push it I can do a 100 bundles a day whole sale at $2.50 a bundle gross is $250.00. Retail the moves up from $5.00 to $10.00 a bundle. As you can see after pictures and cratin and differrent colored paper the price goes up. I do not sell to parks I whole sell it to venders close to the park. People in the million dollar homes are picky so the price goes up the more you do. If you go in the high dollar customers home spitting on there drive way stinking to high heaven mud all over your shoes stay with the campgrounds. I have had to get up at 11:00 pm and deliver 10 bundles there cost $100.00 dollars but they are old customers I make a bout $3800.00 a year from them. I got a customer I get a Check for $250.00 every month to keep them in bundles firewood. Your customers are all different and so you treat the differently. Some of the gang say They would not kiss the customers behind like I do Later


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## CRThomas (Aug 4, 2014)

Was just getting ready to sign off when I notice a car in the drive way I went out they had just got in the camp ground and got there tent set up Ranger Station closed the gas station where they sell bundles I give them four bundles to hold the till day light I ask them how they found me one of the fellows that stay there and check people in told them about me he said you can wake him up if he's a sleep he the the firewood man 24 hours a day made me feel good to know that later I'm going to bed now got a early star in the moring by the way I sell as much fire wood bundles in the summer as I do in the winter. It's year round Later


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 4, 2014)

It's quite possible that we are all wasting our time bundling firewood with twine, plastic, or whatever. Just find a nice chick that will hand out the logs to customers 8 to 9 logs at a time and collect $5 cash each time.

WDYT?


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## Guswhit (Aug 5, 2014)

I was telling my 2 girls they should set up a stand by the entrance to one of the parks and do that to earn some extra college money, but the house queen nixed that idea. She said they could go along and help process, but the selling part was up to me.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 5, 2014)

Guswhit said:


> I was telling my 2 girls they should set up a stand by the entrance to one of the parks and do that to earn some extra college money, but the house queen nixed that idea. She said they could go along and help process, but the selling part was up to me.


Well, you might tell the house queen that my idea is exactly how the park administrator sells the logs that I supply to him. His two daughters do most of the selling by handing out 8 to 9 logs for $5 a collection. They are also saving for college. One of my truckloads produces 50 to 60 bundles this way. He pays me between $110 and $120 per truckload, so the girls can profit close to $200 per truckload after they pay off the old man.

He stocks out about every two weeks, depending on the holidays and special events. The girls also help me unload the truck whenever I make my deliveries.


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## Guswhit (Aug 5, 2014)

I hear you loud and clear! Just have to try and convince the house queen!


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 5, 2014)

Guswhit said:


> Okay..... specific's. I supply 3 large campgrounds firewood. They do not allow wood to be brought in. Of course they don't search peoples campers, but if they see it in the open in the back of a truck they will make you turn around. One of the campgrounds is very large, land wise, so they get culls and dead trees every year that I process on site for them. It is cut to size in 1 area, I come in and split at my leisure and leave the wood piled. The park personal have helpers that bundle it, stock the selling areas and sell it. They keep track of the bundles, I keep track of my time and then I send a bill every month(May-October). The new plan is to have me take care of the bundling and so the park personal have more time to do other things. They have not kept track of the time it takes them to accomplish the task of bundling over the years, and they don't have an automatic machine. I would purchase a machine to up the process, I'm just trying to put some kind of number together to add to my current per bundle charge, not that I think I can squeeze any more time to do it.


I worked evenings at a campground that had rules like that a few years ago. The owners left me in charge for a few months one summer. I quit selling bundles (started selling the wood by the arm load) and got rid of the restriction on bringing your own wood in. When they got back they were so impressed with the amount of work the crew had gotten done and the increase in occupancy and profits that they never went back to the way things were before.


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## Patrick62 (Aug 6, 2014)

I built my bundler a year ago. Not real complicated device, 1/4hp gear head motor and a large pulley with arm to wind the wrap around the wood. Still "fine tuning" the tension system. It has wrapped almost 2000 bundles this year already. 12" blown stretch wrap 1500' rolls will wrap over 100 bundles. $10 a roll, so 10 cents max on wrap. And the end result is a nice TIGHT bundle. Quality sells!!! Mingo your wood to 16" and try and split it a little smaller. My machine and I can bundle 45 per hour easy. a bundle a minute is achievable if not loading truck at same time.


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## CRThomas (Aug 7, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> When it comes to bundling campfire logs, nothing is cheaper than bailing twine that you can buy at TSC or Farm and Fleet and a 5" long garden hose length that you cut from an old leaky hose than people give you for nothing. However, you have to know how to tie a Boy Scout knot and figure that 10 to 12 bundles an hour is your maximum output.
> 
> The alternative is to spend $3000 on a commercial bundle machine and buy a bunch of plastic. Figure on at least a 5-year payback and don't forget your truck, splitter, chainsaw, labor help, and fuel cost. I have never met a man selling firewood bundles who is serious about making a ton of dough while doing it.. Nice hobby, however.
> 
> My biggest gripe is that theft abounds and there is little that you can do about that.


You met one now (CRT) I make a very comforable living I have about $250.000.00 to $300.000.00 in our business bundled firewood paid for it all. I have tried other ways to sell firewood but I am back to bundled and will stay there. Just got back from delivering 450 bundles to a customer we agreed to meet half way between him and us 160 miles charges him $3.00 a bundle straight clear wrap and no handles. That was 3 days bundling had to go into my reserve wood all ready split and dried. I got a 40 bundle customer this after noon after he closes so don't block the door when unloading. Friday I have some at home customers to deliver it going to be about 40 to 60 bundles This is $5.00 a bundle they have to take mini 10 bundles. It depends on how much they drinking on that wine bottle. So I am dead series about bundled firewood. This year we are going to do 25 percent better than last year. We had to buy another truck paid cash for it out of company equipment fund.


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## Guswhit (Aug 7, 2014)

Patrick62 said:


> I built my bundler a year ago. Not real complicated device, 1/4hp gear head motor and a large pulley with arm to wind the wrap around the wood. Still "fine tuning" the tension system. It has wrapped almost 2000 bundles this year already. 12" blown stretch wrap 1500' rolls will wrap over 100 bundles. $10 a roll, so 10 cents max on wrap. And the end result is a nice TIGHT bundle. Quality sells!!! Mingo your wood to 16" and try and split it a little smaller. My machine and I can bundle 45 per hour easy. a bundle a minute is achievable if not loading truck at same time.



Thanks, I was looking for this kind of input. For you to produce 45 bundles, are you wrapping yourself or do you have a helper? I do mark all my wood to 18" in length already, that way I can sell to my other customers the gnarly looking pieces and there cut to the right size. I don't have a problem spending money on a wrapper or paying someone to wrap, but I need to know roughly what can be done before taking the leap. I certainly can't cut, split, wrap, sell, work the full time job and the other 2 part time jobs; I'll have to find some help(kids are only 5 and 7, not quite ready).


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## CRThomas (Aug 7, 2014)

I get my wrap from uline by the case 4 rolls to the box I can do a hundred bundles a day and not work at it. That comes to mini $250.00 not bad for me


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## Patrick62 (Aug 7, 2014)

It's not that hard.
Mingo your wood out, and split a BUNCH of it up ( do a cord or more at a time) then dump it by the bundler. Gather some pieces rattle them onto the holder, get it "about right" (not to big, not to small) and pointy junk inside so as to not tear the wrap. stomp the switch and grab the tail of wrap. Wind about 3 turns (4 if it is needed) and break the wrap, Viola. One bundle.
I figure I got maybe 60 cents in the wood
Plastic I figure at 10 cents per
Could pay maybe 50 cents to wrap (probably too high)
and sell them at the rate of 2.50 to 3.00 each and make a killing...

16" seems to be a nice length, but if you want 18... just make them smaller diameter. You are shooting for around 3/4 cu ft.
My operation literally started as a "one 5 gallon bucket" and tail gate system. It was workable, but slow. The bucket was a measuring device and the "clamp" to hold it while ya spun 5" shrink wrap on the exposed end. Yank the bucket off, and wrap the other end. I could still wrap 30 in a hour easy with that method.


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## zogger (Aug 7, 2014)

Patrick62 said:


> It's not that hard.
> Mingo your wood out, and split a BUNCH of it up ( do a cord or more at a time) then dump it by the bundler. Gather some pieces rattle them onto the holder, get it "about right" (not to big, not to small) and pointy junk inside so as to not tear the wrap. stomp the switch and grab the tail of wrap. Wind about 3 turns (4 if it is needed) and break the wrap, Viola. One bundle.
> I figure I got maybe 60 cents in the wood
> Plastic I figure at 10 cents per
> ...



I do the five gallon bucket for measuring, add one stick to make mine better than the other guy's, then I went high tech! An old computer case to hold the wood while wrapping with the small wrap....high tech I tell yas....

..of course, that version of high tech sucks, I'd like one of the winder dudes designed for that job.


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## Patrick62 (Aug 7, 2014)

Don't try and up the quantity. Up the quality!
Nice straight ends. Wood is real dry and easy to light. Wrap is tight and neet. Bear in mind that some of this is getting loaded into a Lexus... they want a clean easy load. When making with a 5 gallon pail, I would do the same thing with the extra stick... pull the bucket about half way off, and jam another smaller one in there. Then thump it to cinch it, then wrap it. Made about a 11" bundle Near perfect size!

I did notice that with the manufactured bundle machines that they are careful not to let ya into how the mechanism really works. I had to think about it a little bit, it is fairly simple really.






No recent pic's but this is the thing from when I was building it.


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## sb47 (Aug 8, 2014)

Patrick62 said:


> Don't try and up the quantity. Up the quality!
> Nice straight ends. Wood is real dry and easy to light. Wrap is tight and neet. Bear in mind that some of this is getting loaded into a Lexus... they want a clean easy load. When making with a 5 gallon pail, I would do the same thing with the extra stick... pull the bucket about half way off, and jam another smaller one in there. Then thump it to cinch it, then wrap it. Made about a 11" bundle Near perfect size!
> 
> I did notice that with the manufactured bundle machines that they are careful not to let ya into how the mechanism really works. I had to think about it a little bit, it is fairly simple really.
> ...




Can I ask what you get whole sale for that bundle on the floor and what do they sell retail for?


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## CRThomas (Aug 8, 2014)

Patrick62 said:


> Don't try and up the quantity. Up the quality!
> Nice straight ends. Wood is real dry and easy to light. Wrap is tight and neet. Bear in mind that some of this is getting loaded into a Lexus... they want a clean easy load. When making with a 5 gallon pail, I would do the same thing with the extra stick... pull the bucket about half way off, and jam another smaller one in there. Then thump it to cinch it, then wrap it. Made about a 11" bundle Near perfect size!
> 
> I did notice that with the manufactured bundle machines that they are careful not to let ya into how the mechanism really works. I had to think about it a little bit, it is fairly simple really.
> ...


$2.50 whole sale $5.00 to $10.00 retail I sold 450 bundles wednesday for $3.00 abundled but I drove 80 miles


sb47 said:


> Can I ask what you get whole sale for that bundle on the floor and what do they sell retail for?


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## blades (Aug 8, 2014)

Madison ,WI, cl ad, kiln de bugged, state certified, $3/.39cf bundel, yikes that works out to about $948 cord less costs of course, so bottom line being very generous on costs maybe $500/cord, .39cf vs 1 cord at 128 cf less 10% for air space= apx 295 bundels/cord= gross $885. And the service calls it kindling.


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## sb47 (Aug 8, 2014)

blades said:


> Madison ,WI, cl ad, kiln de bugged, state certified, $3/.39cf bundel, yikes that works out to about $948 cord less costs of course, so bottom line being very generous on costs maybe $500/cord, .39cf vs 1 cord at 128 cf less 10% for air space= apx 295 bundels/cord= gross $885. And the service calls it kindling.




I found that just use number don't work in the real world.
If I try and use numbers to calculate how many bundles are in a cord. then take a set cord and bundle it up. My numbers are off quite a bit.


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## Samcronkite (Aug 8, 2014)

Are you selling mostly to c-stores or to private residences?


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## CRThomas (Aug 8, 2014)

A rank the size we use a third of a cord I get around a 100 bundles out of a rank bottom dollar $2.50 a bundle thats comes to $250.00 a rank delivered


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## hardpan (Aug 8, 2014)

You guys have your stuff together. Good thread.


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## blades (Aug 9, 2014)

My apx numbers are not that far off based on CRThomas's last post - a full cord for him is grossing $750. But rank is a regional term means anything, then he states 100 bundles from a 1/3 of a cord (42.6 cubic feet) and we will pull out 20% for air space so that leaves about 34 cubic ft. He gets 100 bundles out of that(.34 cf ea.) which is just about what I was posting about with the Madison Craig's list ad difference being the selling price of $2.50 vs$3/ bundle ( that would be the wholesale side as retail is in the $5-8 range/bundle)
Got to use some sort of numbers to get a handle on weather you are making or losing profit wise- the numbers might not be perfect and I certainly am no flippin math genius but I have been in business for more than 40 years and I am still around ( no thanks to gov. entities). I am not in the firewood business but the math principals are the same across the board. I spent many years making service departments a profit center for small companies ( which always seemed to consider service as a necessary evil/ losing proposition) so I do have a bit of know how with numbers and the real world. There is a lot of truth to the old saying work smarter not always harder.
One more little tid bit- most ads I see say hardwood bundles - course technicaly hardwood is anything that is not a conifer such as pine..... think about that a minute and you will see where i am going with that thought. Another very popular service for tree firms is mulch again labled as "hardwood".


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## MontanaResident (Aug 9, 2014)

farmer steve said:


> read your post this morning and thought of you. just saw this at the gas station and thought this might work. the guy sells to campgrounds. the bags are 25 lb. onion bags. i ask him what the cubic foot amt. was but he couldn't tell me. he said they weigh about 10 lbs. failed to ask him his price. i know a guy that uses those bags for onions and will check on a price per bag.
> View attachment 361550


 
I seen bundles like that at Walmart. I joked with an employee about whether anybody ever buys them. He rolled his eyes and said you'd be surprised. I guess for some vacationer from afar, it's common to buy a small bag of wood rather then spend 2 minutes picking some up 10 feet off the road.


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## CRThomas (Aug 9, 2014)

Bundled firewood is convent.


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## cantoo (Aug 9, 2014)

As far as I know most campgrounds around here it is against the rules to take any wood even downed wood or branches and burn them. They leave the down trees for nutrients and wood critters. And they make money off the wood they sell.


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## MontanaResident (Aug 10, 2014)

cantoo said:


> As far as I know most campgrounds around here it is against the rules to take any wood even downed wood or branches and burn them. They leave the down trees for nutrients and wood critters. And they make money off the wood they sell.


 
I live a mile from a 24 site campground, and branches litter the grounds. If campers didn't pick it up and burn it the place would be a mess. Last year the FWP thinned the trees out, cut and stacked the wood for the campers. It's been slowly getting used up by those that thought to bring an axe or a splitting maul.


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## cantoo (Aug 10, 2014)

MontanaResident, that's the US, us Canadians are much cheaper and want everything for free. We will take the toilet paper from the toilets and burn it if we can. Just ask anyone from Florida what they think the spending habits of Canadian snowbirds are like.


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## zogger (Aug 10, 2014)

cantoo said:


> MontanaResident, that's the US, us Canadians are much cheaper and want everything for free. We will take the toilet paper from the toilets and burn it if we can. Just ask anyone from Florida what they think the spending habits of Canadian snowbirds are like.


I know they rarely tip servers in restaurants.


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## cantoo (Aug 10, 2014)

Restaurant, what the hell is a restaurant? A story from when I was first dating my Dutch wife. My wife and her Mother went back to Holland to be there for her Grandfathers funeral. When it came time for them to fly back into Toronto (3 hour trip) I was lucky enough to be allowed to go with my Father in law and several of her brothers and sisters to pick them up. During the drive my Father in law said we would be stopping in Orangeville for dinner. We got there and pulled into a mall parking lot, I assumed we were going into a small restaurant that way there. Hmm not quite, he gave my wife's sister some money and we went into the grocery store and bought a loaf of bread and 2 lbs of cold meat. That was our dinner. I should have ran and ran fast, we've been married 31 years now and she's still as cheap as her Dad. And he's not even real Canadian.


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## CRThomas (Aug 11, 2014)

blades said:


> My apx numbers are not that far off based on CRThomas's last post - a full cord for him is grossing $750. But rank is a regional term means anything, then he states 100 bundles from a 1/3 of a cord (42.6 cubic feet) and we will pull out 20% for air space so that leaves about 34 cubic ft. He gets 100 bundles out of that(.34 cf ea.) which is just about what I was posting about with the Madison Craig's list ad difference being the selling price of $2.50 vs$3/ bundle ( that would be the wholesale side as retail is in the $5-8 range/bundle)
> Got to use some sort of numbers to get a handle on weather you are making or losing profit wise- the numbers might not be perfect and I certainly am no flippin math genius but I have been in business for more than 40 years and I am still around ( no thanks to gov. entities). I am not in the firewood business but the math principals are the same across the board. I spent many years making service departments a profit center for small companies ( which always seemed to consider service as a necessary evil/ losing proposition) so I do have a bit of know how with numbers and the real world. There is a lot of truth to the old saying work smarter not always harder.
> One more little tid bit- most ads I see say hardwood bundles - course technicaly hardwood is anything that is not a conifer such as pine..... think about that a minute and you will see where i am going with that thought. Another very popular service for tree firms is mulch again labled as "hardwood".


 I have venders trying to under cut me with $1.85 to $1.45 a bundle. I just keep on doing my thing and it works out. Later


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## CRThomas (Aug 13, 2014)

[QUOTEHudson then have hit, post: 4907994, member: 91538"]Thanks, I was looking for this kind of input. For you to produce 45 bundles, are you wrapping yourself or do you have a helper? I do mark all my wood to 18" in length already, that way I can sell to my other customers the gnarly looking pieces and there cut to the right size. I don't have a problem spending money on a wrapper or paying someone to wrap, but I need to know roughly what can be done before taking the leap. I certainly can't cut, split, wrap, sell, work the full time job and the other 2 part time jobs; I'll have to find some help(kids are only 5 and 7, not quite ready).[/QUOTE]
Go to Hudson they have a small hand crank $500.00 wrapper fits in bumper hitch. I know after 20 years bundled firewood pays year round


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## CRThomas (Aug 21, 2014)

I am a one man company and will stay that way my daughters come and help me once in a while I have every thing set up for a old man buy him self business. on how many i wrap is never the same. just wrapping i cane do 45 to 50 a hour but i class how many bundles i can do a hour from the tree too finished product cause the wood has to be cut down hauled home chunked splitt dryed and bundled so my average is ten bundles a hour if i feel good 10 bundles a hour on whole sale comes to $25.00. if customers come to the shop and buy it its $3.00 a bundle when i deliver its $5.00 and up to $10.00 a bundle depending on how its wrapped if i have to take out there garable or walk there dog or build a fire for them a lot of varables in bundled firewood busness bundled any way. i do sell a little bulk firewood its the knots and wood that wont wrap nice and they were old customers from when i got in to the bulk firewood business never do that agin when bundling firewood you need your bundle nice because they set on a fire place in a $500.000.00 to a $3.000.000.00 home you have to dress clean cut take your shoes off when you enter there home not spit tobacco juice in there drive way aways smile if they want to tell you a storie spend a little time and listen if they offer you a drink turn it down even if your a drunk always thank your customer and remember women buy the wood there husbands if they have one he dont care. i have always got my pickup spotless clean and about 20 bundles in the bed. every once in a while me and my wife drive thru the local camp ground we sell 20 or 30 bundles but dont make it a regular thing. i have all kinds in little tricks that i have learned over the years i didnt like selling bulk firewood but i love the bundled firewood business. my knots and waste wood i sell for bulk i just dump it and go because i was going to pile it up and burn it any way later fellows my finger is tired


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## dwasifar (Aug 23, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> Bundled firewood is convent.


Especially when you have nun handy.


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## unclemoustache (Aug 23, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> Bundled firewood is convent.



Convent??


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## unclemoustache (Aug 23, 2014)

zogger said:


> I do bags and bundles (small scale just for now..real small..I am seeing if this could be a viable business or not) My bags cost 35 cent apiece, bought them online off a seed company, small bale of one hundred bags. Surprisingly small cardboard box they shipped in. Mine will hold .75cu/ft if you stuff them well. Sort of a PITA. I use them for chunked up cook wood.





Guswhit said:


> Bags are 30-35 cents each buying them in lots of 500 around me. The campground used to use these bought the stretch wrap was cheaper they said. I just wonder how long it takes to fill one of those or to wrap a bundle with stretch wrap.




Where do you guys get your bags? What size?

.


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## zogger (Aug 24, 2014)

unclemoustache said:


> Where do you guys get your bags? What size?
> 
> .



Harris seeds. IIRC, I used the 16x25, but would go larger doing it again, just to make it easier to stuff them. Really depends on what size bundles you want to make. Larger bundles get heavy, might turn off some like old lady shoppers.


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## unclemoustache (Aug 24, 2014)

Thanks! Just ordered some. Going to try the bundle sales as well. Got a good friend who owns a gas station.


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## CRThomas (Aug 24, 2014)

Hey super man you will find if you have Ash it drys quick its light easy I'm sure you remember Jan and Feb I was the only person with dry wood by having dry wood for people to start wet wood my business has jumped to all most more than I can handle.


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## CRThomas (Aug 24, 2014)

You will find this saying in the bundles firewood business (hey man I can get a truck load for $60.00 dollars my answer is you need a phone number or two. another trick When your wife wants to shop at Walmart you don't want to shop get you a sign put on the sign Walmart firewood $4.99 a bundle My firewood $3.00 bundle in a couple hours you can sell 20 to 30 bundles. When your wife get ready to quit shopping cover your firewood up if you have any left your customer only buy a couple so they pay cash Your wife wants to know what you been doing just waiting you honey you do not say any thing about money in your pocket


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## CRThomas (Aug 24, 2014)

Samcronkite said:


> Are you selling mostly to c-stores or to private residences?


 C-stores are $2.50 a bundle but I deliver a 100 bundles at a time. I make good profit off C-Stores But the big money is in residence your price go's up from $5.00 to $10.00 abundle mini of ten just depends on the way there wrapped They want certain colored paper want pictures want you to take out there trash or walk there dog. What ever your customer wants extra the price goes up to make good money with bundled firewood it is a year round job some old lady want to set in front of her fire place and drink her morgan david and dream about the days she was 20 years old and a stone cold fox she will pay what ever it take to full fill her dream.


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## CRThomas (Aug 25, 2014)

Guswhit said:


> Good points. Lets just not get carried away with figures. I'm looking for someones knowledge that has actually wrapped before because they should know how much it costs them too wrap. I know how much a good commercial machine costs and approx. how many bundles you can wrap per roll of film. I don't know how many bundles you can do per hour, how many hours you can sustain the rate of production.


 People keep talking about this cost to much if your going into the firewood business you can not go in free. I am a full time bundle firewood seller some where between $250.000.00 to $300.000.00 in equipment and buildings. My gross income is from $250.00 a day and up. If you want to put money in the bank and live comfortable on your firewood business for get about using a tub or use tire. Here are some ways to get started don't go under $2.50 a bundle whole sale. You need a 35000 people base to sell to. You have to sell in the money end of town. My best money is made off home sales I make money whole sale but the best is retail. I can buy a truck load of split wood for $50.00 and make a good profit whole sale. In the summer time the beer drinkers need a case of beer I can get a load of Ash for the price of a case of beer $32.00 I only Sell Ash the king of firewood. My firewood business paid for all of our eqipment its not junk. Some body will come in there and tell you different. Ever thing we have is payed for my wife just bought her self a new mustang paid cash the company just bought a 450 power stroke ford paid cash for it. We own our home. So don't tell me there is no money in firewood. There is a business up north that is a million dollar company they sell wood all over the USA. I have seen on here there is no money in fiewood My wife does the books and I do the wood . this is my store and I will stick to it. Later


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## unclemoustache (Aug 30, 2014)

Couple more questions:

- what size sticks do the customers prefer? Larger or smaller? How big generally?
- how do you deal with sales tax? (esp you, CRThomas). Do you fly under the radar, or do you calculate it all out, or what?


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## Dogsout (Aug 30, 2014)

You have to love it when guys like CRThomas give a reply to a question you have asked. I don't sell bundled firewood but you can tell by his replies that this is a guy that has walked the walk. Clear and well thought out response along with some learned tricks of the trade to help make your life easier. It is guys like this that make this board what it is, thanks CRT and all of the people on this board that share their knowledge to the masses.


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## Guswhit (Sep 2, 2014)

unclemoustache said:


> Couple more questions:
> 
> - what size sticks do the customers prefer? Larger or smaller? How big generally?
> - how do you deal with sales tax? (esp you, CRThomas). Do you fly under the radar, or do you calculate it all out, or what?


I keep forms and sell to stores-campgrounds directly, so they give me there number because they are reselling it(collecting the tax) on there end, therefore they pay it. Joe or Steve come over and by some bundles, well, sorry uncle Sam, your SOL.


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## CRThomas (Sep 2, 2014)

My bundles are 8 sticks same size as my wrist 4 to 5 inchthru and 16 inch long I am not cheating my customers thats what they want and only Ash and dry.


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## CRThomas (Nov 16, 2014)

Here's my building just got to store Ash wood bundled wood


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

hi guys, been reading some of the chat, I used to do firewood bundles 8 years ago. now that I'am layed off, it's time again. like CRT said there is money in it. but u have to put in the time. I have 11 accounts right now. I started out with a poly strap, system. worked good nice tite bundles, added a twine handle. I sell these bundles, direct to my clients. I get 2.85 a peice. I sell about 5000 a year right now. my cost is low, for my strapping cost's it's about 11 cents per bundle, figure in handles, not even close. I buy a roll from the local rancher, after hay season, maybe 5.00. I get around 3500 out of a roll. my wood, costs after the cutting, hauling, I have 18.00 a cord in it. but, I live in the middle of a nat'l forest. I have a new deal now, I started cutting, pallet cants. on a bandsaw mill, now I'am also mixing my waste wood into them. now after everything figured in. I'am saving some more, time an money. all in all I avg. about 16 to 20 bundles a hr. my jig holds 4 at a time. my costs per bundle wood an all. 39 cents. my wage about 38.00 a hr. yea, the co. I worked for. 14.65 a hr. layed off not so bad now. u2bwolb4


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## Wood Doctor (Feb 24, 2015)

Looks like a good fill-in business. The bundle season here kicks off late next month after the snows are about done. Most are used for campfires and fire pits. One time I had 50 in stock and two boy scout troops showed up unexpectedly and bought almost all of them. I threw them a big quantity discount.

Theft still tends to be a problem. People sometimes buy two and carry three away when your back is turned.


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

well just got back from a meeting with my local forestry ranger. found out a little more about the rules about transporting firewood. due to the outbreak of the e.a.b. thats a bug.. the state of mo. has sealed the state line. so as of now, no wood going out r coming in. which is not all bad for me. I don't have to worry about out of state vendors. march is a new season coming up for me. also my forestry rep. had a few good tips, on how to save some money an time, on some new timber sales coming up. hey the game is changing, anybody thinking about firewood, needs to check out the new rules, for their home area. just saying I pay the govt. enough already, don't need no fines, r any sales blocked. y'all have a good one today u2bwolfb4


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## sb47 (Feb 24, 2015)

U2bwolfb4 said:


> well just got back from a meeting with my local forestry ranger. found out a little more about the rules about transporting firewood. due to the outbreak of the e.a.b. thats a bug.. the state of mo. has sealed the state line. so as of now, no wood going out r coming in. which is not all bad for me. I don't have to worry about out of state vendors. march is a new season coming up for me. also my forestry rep. had a few good tips, on how to save some money an time, on some new timber sales coming up. hey the game is changing, anybody thinking about firewood, needs to check out the new rules, for their home area. just saying I pay the govt. enough already, don't need no fines, r any sales blocked. y'all have a good one today u2bwolfb4



I don't ship any wood for that very reason. You pick up, you haul. What you do with it after you pick it up is your business.


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

I forgot to mention, also as of 2015, with new rules. in my state, the enforcement is on tighter, an so are the fines. also the govt. is getting more intense, about the information, an place of orgin. tags now. the U.S.D.A. , mostly the dept. of weights an measures, are cracking down on more of the slightly shady ones, not giving clear cu.ft. info. also the dept. of U.S.D.A. is also making a new ruling about firewood, one of them in the works, is if u can show them, that u have heated ur firewood to 160 degrees F. for 75 minutes in a closed container, an the core temp. was 160 degrees F. for the 75 minutes, they will sell u a premit, thats states ur wood is bug free, an it can be shipped anywhere.. cooking firewood the govt. way.. anybody else think thats a little out there,, have a good one today u2bwolfb4


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## Wood Doctor (Feb 24, 2015)

So, what we need is more rules and regulations for firewood suppliers so that nobody stays warm around a campfire in 2015. Looks like things are really heating up. Gasp!


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

If anybody is thinking about a diffrent way to bundle wood. I have tired plastic wrap, bags, tape, u name it.. I finally decided on ulines poly strapping system. it uses a hand tensioner, a sealer, poly strapping, and clips, have about 350.00 in all. first installment.. after that roll of poly strapping, and 2 boxes of clips, costs 118.00 out of that, I avg. about 850 bundles per. my size bundle is 11 x 11 x 18 the reason for the poly strap, was at a request from the park service. the plastic wrap, was getting tangled in their mowers, what can u do, just some people leaving trash. after some figuring, and talking to the park service. this was acceptable. not knocking the plastic wrap, I've tried both.. some of my gated condo clients prefer the poly over plastic.. they also like the fireplace logs debarked, less mess, an yes I get more for them. not saying how much, but for sure, worth my time. I have worked with both state and fed park services, over the years, selling bundles, bags, an bulk wood. for me its whatever the season.. later on u2bwolfb4


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## chucker (Feb 24, 2015)

! so if the free trade is good where you are at reap the wild winds before they stop!! it stopped here for me 2 years ago and still have 5 cords of red oak bundled wood @1c.ft. to a bundle(640)..... so going to try again with "home bundles" @ $4.00?


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## Wood Doctor (Feb 24, 2015)

chucker said:


> ! so if the free trade is good where you are at reap the wild winds before they stop!! it stopped here for me 2 years ago and still have 5 cords of red oak bundled wood @1c.ft. to a bundle(640)..... so going to try again with "home bundles" @ $4.00?


I agree that $4 apiece is the best overall price, assuming 8 logs to the bundle. I start with $5 each, then offer two for $9 and then three for $12. That pricing strategy has worked rather well and tends to reduce theft.


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

as for free trade, yep, still here for now, but u know how the grubument, is like first ur money,, just a thought for u chucker,, I picked up some sales, after talking to my local plant nursery, she was the one turned me on to the condo's.. might like ur home bundles..


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## chucker (Feb 24, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> I agree that $4 apiece is the best overall price, assuming 8 logs to the bundle. I start with $5 each, then offer two for $9 and then three for $12. That pricing strategy has worked rather well and tends to reduce theft.


all my bundled wood is split to a 3" average.... so 10 to 15 pieces to a bundle that is stacked in an 11" square jig.


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

When I started my biz. was getting 1.75 a bundle wholesale, but that was the price for a 500 min. order, plus del. fee. now getting 2.85 a bundle same min. 500 order for the parks. 3 times del. fee as before.. as for my others, I get 3.65 a bundle at the stores,, if I travel more than 30 miles out, I get 4.25 a bundle, my gated people get special treatment,, but its all about the money,,


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## chucker (Feb 24, 2015)

hey U2 ?? !THANKS FOR THE WORD TO ANOTHER SALES OUTLET!! plenty of nurseries around here with the famous gull and mille lacs lakes residents and seasonal mostly....


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

my bundle # of pieces vary's any where from 12 to 14,, thats split wood,, my round wood, aka fireplace logs, 10 to a bundle, an the bundle is 12 x 12 x 16 short for the fireplace inserts they have. all special cut for them,, I deliver 100 at a time, just check in at gate, meet the manager at the wood lot, he counts, I stack I sweep up afterwards, he pay's me cash out of the wood fund,, we b.s. awhile nice all around.


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 24, 2015)

chucker said:


> hey U2 ?? !THANKS FOR THE WORD TO ANOTHER SALES OUTLET!! plenty of nurseries around here with the famous gull and mille lacs lakes residents and seasonal mostly....


ur welcome the lady who tipped me did all the landscaping around there..


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 25, 2015)

well I finally got it done, I built me a cable boom loading trailer, took most of the winter, went to local junkyard, found a 10,000 lb axle with dual's 16 inch wheels. found a hyd. winch off ol wrecker, took the hyd's off of ol wood splitter, 28 ton, welded a 40 inch wide, 60 inch's tall steel mast, to 6 ft.x 12 ft. 4 inch channel steel trailer, boom swivel's and is telescoping, swing's side to side, anchored with 3/8 chain to mast. have a 10 hp briggs on it for power, ol pulley from wrecker with clevis for double lining if needed. with 2 to 20 log tongs with swivel, trailer jack that folds up for transport. 5 ft. with 2 inch ball hitch, with lights an all cost me 678.00 to build. to me [ priceless] works better than I thought. ugh, now back to work, that shop was warm,,, no more heaavy lifting,, yea,, can run cable out to 75 ft, pull the lever and drag it to the trailer, where I be at. pulls behind pickup great, I'am off.. have a good one u2bwolfb4


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## chucker (Feb 25, 2015)

it sounds like the set up I have, except not as heavy duty... old 1/2 ton cheve truck frame and a hand winch backed up by a 4500 pound super winch. able to pull it behind the truck or use it with the tractor to haul 4' through 12' logs 1.5 cords at a time.


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## Wood Doctor (Feb 25, 2015)

You guys will all find out one major thing: you need a good firewood supply and brawn. A half-ton pickup truck holds about 40 bundles at 8 logs to the bundle. Priced at $4 apiece net after theft, that's $160 a truckload after you do the cutting, splitting, wrapping, and selling.

You are not going to get rich at this business, but you will get lots of fresh air and exercise.


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## zogger (Feb 25, 2015)

U2bwolfb4 said:


> well I finally got it done, I built me a cable boom loading trailer, took most of the winter, went to local junkyard, found a 10,000 lb axle with dual's 16 inch wheels. found a hyd. winch off ol wrecker, took the hyd's off of ol wood splitter, 28 ton, welded a 40 inch wide, 60 inch's tall steel mast, to 6 ft.x 12 ft. 4 inch channel steel trailer, boom swivel's and is telescoping, swing's side to side, anchored with 3/8 chain to mast. have a 10 hp briggs on it for power, ol pulley from wrecker with clevis for double lining if needed. with 2 to 20 log tongs with swivel, trailer jack that folds up for transport. 5 ft. with 2 inch ball hitch, with lights an all cost me 678.00 to build. to me [ priceless] works better than I thought. ugh, now back to work, that shop was warm,,, no more heaavy lifting,, yea,, can run cable out to 75 ft, pull the lever and drag it to the trailer, where I be at. pulls behind pickup great, I'am off.. have a good one u2bwolfb4



Need some pics or video of that thing, sounds super handy!


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## U2bwolfb4 (Feb 25, 2015)

chucker said:


> it sounds like the set up I have, except not as heavy duty... old 1/2 ton cheve truck frame and a hand winch backed up by a 4500 pound super winch. able to pull it behind the truck or use it with the tractor to haul 4' through 12' logs 1.5 cords at a time.


ha ha what can we say [ great minds think alike ]


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## CRThomas (Feb 26, 2015)

I make a very good living off bundled firewood


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