# It was a hell of a ride...



## TheJollyLogger

Well, I took quite the ride last week. It was about a 60' aspen with about a 10 degree lean towards the swingset and chicken coop. It looked fine, healthy canopy, no signs of decay, no red flags at all. I went up to take the top out, probably a 10-150foot top. Rigged it, notched it, and as I was making the backcut, I felt it lean, more than it should of. I crammed the saw through the hinge, braced for the rebound..... and it kept going over. My first thought was it uprooted, but as you can see, it just completely failed at the stump. Hit the swingset, broke, and ended up in the coop. I rolled right at the last instant and took the hit on my shoulder. I had surgery last friday, and am looking at 3 months of PT, with an expectation of a full recovery. All things considered, it sure could have been worse.

This has always been my biggest concern, hidden structural defect, and it came to pass. There were no external signs, and it felt fine on the way up.


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## sac-climber

That swing set might have saved your life. Scary ****...that tree has like zero taper. Glad your alive and doing better, wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## MasterBlaster

Well that sucks! It's good you weren't injured further! Heal up, brother!


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## TheJollyLogger

It was probably 6" or so, where I topped, and yes, I think the swingset and coop saved me.


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## TheJollyLogger

You know what sucks, is anytime soomething goes wrong, I always go back and figure out what I could have done differently. This was just a case of the wrong damn tree. It's kind of haunting me, because I wouldn't hve done anything differently with the information I had.


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## HuskStihl

TheJollyLogger said:


> You know what sucks, is anytime soomething goes wrong, I always go back and figure out what I could have done differently. This was just a case of the wrong damn tree. It's kind of haunting me, because I wouldn't hve done anything differently with the information I had.


You need a portable x-ray machine (for the trees, not suggesting you'll need more x-rays). I know that you are a very experienced climber. That one would've gotten any climber in the world. Except me. I'm terrified of heights (actually of falling, really) and would have just fallen it into the coop and swing set from the ground. Like usual. Speedy and complete recovery wishes from highway 290


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## HuskStihl

Hopefully this thread will give pause to all the "I've climbed a ladder before, what equipment do I need to be a full time climber" guys


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## pro94lt

Wow how hard was the hit?


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## TheJollyLogger

I rolled to the righr at the last second, took the hit on my shoulder.Didnt hit my head or lise conciousness, but it didnt do my shouldrr much good.


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## pro94lt

Man your a lucky man. We're you alone


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## TheJollyLogger

No, we were rigging the top, groundie helped get me untangled and unpinned.


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## lone wolf

TheJollyLogger said:


> No, we were rigging the top, groundie helped get me untangled and unpinned.


Good thing you were not alone.


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## TheJollyLogger

indeed. Im really proud of Jacob. For an 18 year old kid, he kept his head, assessed me and the situation, did well


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## lone wolf

TheJollyLogger said:


> indeed. Im really proud of Jacob. For an 18 year old kid, he kept his head, assessed me and the situation, did well


Good man.


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## Pelorus

TheJollyLogger said:


> You know what sucks, is anytime soomething goes wrong, I always go back and figure out what I could have done differently. This was just a case of the wrong damn tree. It's kind of haunting me, because I wouldn't hve done anything differently with the information I had.



Kinda sucks to roll the dice with your life sometimes to make a living.
Sorry to hear the law of averages caught up to you. Hope you heal up quick.


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## TheJollyLogger

yeah, Ive had way too much time to think this week. 99.9% sounds good til ou multiply it by 10,000 trees, lol


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## Toddppm

Were you strapped in all the way down? That's some scary **** man, glad you're going to be ok. So you were in the part of the tree that broke on the playset and went over that into the coop too?
At least the customer should have no doubt now that the tree was a risk and should have come down!


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## TheJollyLogger

Yeah, I was double tied in. Nothing left to do except ride it down.


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## pro94lt

Man


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## Toddppm

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, I was double tied in. Nothing left to do except ride it down.


****


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## pro94lt

So be a little more descriptive about the ride down, ride to hospital. .. that's my worst fear, snapping a tree over ive got to greedy on with the top rigged to and tje ground guy doesnt let it run. They either let it free fall or brakes on full force. you are truly blessed!


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## Overwatch

Amazing... Bad luck and good luck all at the same time. 

Get 100% well soon and God bless!


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## TheJollyLogger

pro94lt said:


> So be a little more descriptive about the ride down, ride to hospital. .. that's my worst fear, snapping a tree over ive got to greedy on with the top rigged to and tje ground guy doesnt let it run. They either let it free fall or brakes on full force. you are truly blessed!



Well, we were going to throw the top behind me, you know, a swing and drop redirect. I told Jacob as soon as he felt a pull on the line to just let go,but the tree failed before the top even came off the hinge. Couldn't have been a 200# top, I only had 10-15' above me. Looking back on it, I'm still surprised I didn't feel any wrning signs on the way up. Just brittle, and when it failed, it failed.


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## TheJollyLogger

As far as the ride to the hospita, there wasn't one. One I got untangled, I took pics, and then we finished the job and went to urgent care. They sent me to the ER from there.


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## TheJollyLogger

pro94lt said:


> So be a little more descriptive about the ride down, ride to hospital. .. that's my worst fear, snapping a tree over ive got to greedy on with the top rigged to and tje ground guy doesnt let it run. They either let it free fall or brakes on full for
> 
> ce. you are truly blessed!



As far as the ride down goes, it was quick, with an abrupt stop at the end, and seemed like it took a lifetime.


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## KenJax Tree

Sometimes you do everything right and **** just happens.


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## Griff93

Things like this scare me when I'm climbing. Glad to see your ok other than your shoulder. It always concerns me rigging a top out due to the weight and leverage on the top of the tree. If I read your description correctly it started going when you were making the back cut so the force of the top falling was never exerted on the top of the tree, right?


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## TheJollyLogger

Griff93 said:


> Things like this scare me when I'm climbing. Glad to see your ok other than your shoulder. It always concerns me rigging a top out due to the weight and leverage on the top of the tree. If I read your description correctly it started going when you were making the back cut so the force of the top falling was never exerted on the top of the tree, right?




That is correct. It started going over just from the force exerted by the top tipping ovet.


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## imagineero

Sorry to hear of your injury, best wishes for a speedy and full recovery!

We all take risks like this pretty often. Like most guys I don't like rigging out tops, and I'd rather climb higher (even real small!) and just let it drop. For maximum safety I tend to keep the saw going in the cut and once it has committed to the lay just pop straight through the whole hinge... no release at all. I've climbed right way up to maybe 3-4" on skinny pines to do that rather than rope them. Sometimes you can even just spear them down if there's not much room. 

I can't comment on your tree.... local knowledge comes into play so much with species and their characteristics. I know all my own local trees, how much they'll hinge or how brittle they are, what sort of weight they'll carry at different diameters, which are more susceptible to rot or bugs etc... I don't know anything at all about that kind of tree you were in we don't have them here.


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## treesmith

Glad you're alright Jolly


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## TheJollyLogger

Thanks, TS


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> You know what sucks, is anytime soomething goes wrong, I always go back and figure out what I could have done differently. This was just a case of the wrong damn tree. It's kind of haunting me, because I wouldn't hve done anything differently with the information I had.



I would have !

I just have to come right out and say it though its not like I am happy about it.

Yes, given the information you would not catch me that high in those trees without some sort of back up for WHEN the stem collapses.

The first thing I thought when I saw the picture was, " Wasn't there some one there to tell you not to do that?"

Trust me, I feel bad I am not apologizing for your accident like everybody else. I am glad you survived this lesson but I am still going to ask if you know what you are doing. Cause from what you said and what happened it doesn't look like you do.

Now if you come back and say that everybody you know climbs those trees like that then I will really **** my pants.


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## Tryin

^^^And what factors come into play for you in this case? Genuinely curious.


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## TheJollyLogger

OK, Dr. P., how do you handle an aspen like that?


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> OK, Dr. P., how do you handle an aspen like that?



Don't go very high without a remote secondary TIP plus support for the tree itself period.

Not sure why that is not engraved into your everyday thinking. I am really not. It is now. Hope I helped. Listen:

In my book the Poplar family is listed as high alert for this matter of stem failure. I'm not joking, it really is, I have it right here, the book, I am looking at where I have always looked and pondered this specific family ever since the day I saw one and had to deal with it I can't remember how many years ago, I was still a kid, that I remember. coming from my perspective I would think that before you ( or anybody) got to the point of blowing out the stem of a poplar tree that some where along the line you ( or anybody) would have learned that is what happens when you try to **** with a poplar tree.

What? Did you just happen to come across a tree you never knew or saw and it just happened to be the one kind of tree that you just DON'T climb up there with so you really have no clue that the stem was going to snap whatsoever?

I'm really surprised. And sorry to be the one to tell you.



No ****! And I can't believe no one said it! I have to be the bad guy? WTF!

My main concern, not to berate but really get an understanding of how it is that you don't know and help spread the word to others. Really, I would have stopped you man. I would have just told you if I had been there and seen you what you were thinking of doing.


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## DR. P. Proteus

I am sorry that you had to learn what I thought everybody knew the hard way.


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## TheJollyLogger

Don't know what book you're reading from, but hasn't been my experience. Aspen is usually a pretty limber forgiving wood, based on the last couple thousand I've climbed. Is it strong wood, no. Is it limber and forgiving, yes, just like any other poplar. Honestly, wondering what your experience is. Secondary tip on anything above 50'?


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## pro94lt

I can say this the meth guys will climb anything any time anywhere. I've seen Em in stuff my 6 year old would turn down


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## DR. P. Proteus

KenJax Tree said:


> Sometimes you do everything right and **** just happens.



See what I mean!

NO NO NO. Its all very wrong.

The fact that this senerio doesn't make you all automatically think, " stem blowout" is indeed freaking me the **** out.

All joking and drama aside I say now you know. And am I glad. If you would have run it by me first I would have went off just the same as I am now about it just to make sure these trees have this potential even when they look solid and even when they are solid cause they are never solid.

Aspens
Cottonwoods
Poplars

All in the same family - Poplar

All have this potential when growing slim and tall with lots of healthy foliage up top.

A ****ing hair trigger is what it is. Even standing straight up and down, god forbid any amount of lean, the amount of pressure exerted on the crap ass wood these thing are made of will cause them to collapse.

Yes, I thought that was common knowledge.


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## pro94lt

Cottonwood?


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> Don't know what book you're reading from, but hasn't been my experience. Aspen is usually a pretty limber forgiving wood, based on the last couple thousand I've climbed. Is it strong wood, no. Is it limber and forgiving, yes, just like any other poplar. Honestly, wondering what your experience is. Secondary tip on anything above 50'?




I gotta say I was just sitting here thinking about how what I said about poplars isn't mainstream knowledge cause yer right, its not in the books.

But I would be hard pressed to climb one like you did because of what I know. And, once again and sadly, have seen.

What we have here is the eastern cottonwood, its a little different but the same, well it grows just like the aspen you have in the picture. Some people even call these eastern cottonwoods aspen. They are small, tall, leggy, stretching for light, very heavy with foliage up top. That in itself warrants sound evaluation with any tree.

I wouldn't touch one of these scrappy poplars til I had shot a rope in it and gave it a feel and tied it off then made sure I had someplace to go if the thing decided to explode when I gave it a nudge it wasn't used to.

You get into a grove of these trees and find they are all holding each other up!

Sometimes people tell me the last climber didn't mess around setting guy ropes, nah, he would just climb em!

But I still set them.

Seriously and sadly you are proof that these trees do what I just said they do whether its written in a book or not.

It should be. All of what I said about this particular scenario involving poplars and also how these particular trees can look solid and be no where even close to being so.


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## DR. P. Proteus

pro94lt said:


> Cottonwood?



There are a few different cottonwoods all in the populus family.


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## DR. P. Proteus

pro94lt said:


> I can say this the meth guys will climb anything any time anywhere. I've seen Em in stuff my 6 year old would turn down



I probably would to so I don't use meth.


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## KenJax Tree

I've climbed some pretty sketchy stuff and i'm no meth head


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## pro94lt

80ft pine with no bark all limbs gone probably could blow it over they run up it foaming at the mouth.


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## pro94lt

Eastern cottonwoods to me are 6 foot diameter 150 foot tall and limbs probably 75 feet long. Not sure I could get a throw line in these monsters in the delta of Arkansas on some historical site. I've never been in Em but their definitely intimidating to me


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## DR. P. Proteus

If you would have set a rope to pre-tension against the lean it would have given


pro94lt said:


> Eastern cottonwoods to me are 6 foot diameter 150 foot tall and limbs probably 75 feet long. Not sure I could get a throw line in these monsters in the delta of Arkansas on some historical site. I've never been in Em but their definitely intimidating to me



Yes, you do not have the same scenario when they grow big and spread out, its when they are like as I said.


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## TheJollyLogger

Big differences berween cottonwoods, poplars, and aspen. Hell, big difference between Alaskan aspen, Colorado aspen, western slope aspen, etc. But the biggest difference is between sound wood and dry rot. I stand by my statement that the tree had a hidden defect that didn't present itself. You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about the tree, and for that matter, my abilities and experience based on a couple of pics and a few paragraphs.


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> Big differences berween cottonwoods, poplars, and aspen. Hell, big difference between Alaskan aspen, Colorado aspen, western slope aspen, etc. But the biggest difference is between sound wood and dry rot. I stand by my statement that the tree had a hidden defect that didn't present itself. You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about the tree, and for that matter, my abilities and experience based on a couple of pics and a few paragraphs.




Yes, every time I see some kind of poplar growing thin tall and leggy I automatically assume the stem could blow out.

Maybe this would be a good time to follow you own advice which you have listed in yer signature?


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## TheJollyLogger

So you're basically saying no aspen is safe to climb?


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## Samlock

Jolly's picture of the stump clearly looks to me a case of particular decay that is called around here as "white rot". I have actually never seen it in aspen before. All sorts of rot, yes, but aspen doesn't hide it. There's always a crack, fungi, a scar etc. indicating there's something funny inside. Fairbanks is at 64° northern latitude. I'm at 62°, just on the other side. Sub-arctic trees grow slowly... Aspen is a very common species here. It will do this on you if you're not careful:







But still aspen will hold as well as any tree. If I'd secure each aspen, I should secure them all. I'm more suspicious about birches. They have a habit of hiding nasty things inside. Not to mention alders. They're bad of nature.

To clarify things - I'm not a climber, but a logger who climbs when needed.


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## Toddppm

Well especially with no notch? Can you send me that sign, bullets marks and all? I'll gladly pay the postage.


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## Samlock

Toddppm said:


> Well especially with no notch? Can you send me that sign, bullets marks and all? I'll gladly pay the postage.



There's a notch, but it's closed. A tad too gentle...

I'm kinda used to that sign hanging on my garage wall, you know.


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## Brush Ape

From the pictures, I would say if you sounded that tree with an axe on the side away from the lean, it would have sounded more like a ripe pumpkin than a sound trunk.


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## Toddppm

OK, OK, I'll send your favorite beer in exchange....


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## TheJollyLogger

It sounded fine. Felt fine.


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## pro94lt

Well how are you healing up? Did you get paid? Pay for the damage? Eager to get back in the saddle? I still can't get out over you riding down the spar...


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## DR. P. Proteus

Thinking back to every conversation I ever had about tree like this, goes like, " godamn those little ****ers will kill ya!"


TheJollyLogger said:


> So you're basically saying no aspen is safe to climb?




Uh, like have you been paying attention?

Its the ones just like the one that did you, the little ****ers with big tops , any lean magnifies the situation.

You know how the stuff breaks with just a little saw kerf right?


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> It sounded fine. Felt fine.



Yes, deceiving.

But now you know.

Also TRUNK TAPER is a good way to read the wood. The one that did you had none. Always be suspicious of trees that have little or no trunk taper.


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## Brush Ape

Add Tulip tree to that list of suspect tree types Dan listed. Also a Poplar? Yup. I rarely trust them slick inner cambium bastards. Like a banana peel.


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## pro94lt

Tulip poplar? Never climbed one they just look to brittle I was thinking I had no poplar trees but I do.


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## TheJollyLogger

Healing up ok, stll working it out with the insurance company, anoter 4weeks in the immobilizer before PT starts. And dr p, you stll haven't told me how many aspen you've dealt with over the years. Doesn't sound to me like you've ever even seen one.


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> Healing up ok, stll working it out with the insurance company, anoter 4weeks in the immobilizer before PT starts. And dr p, you stll haven't told me how many aspen you've dealt with over the years. Doesn't sound to me like you've ever even seen one.



Actually not a one BUT I did say the tree was on a particular list, the same list as our eastern cottonwoods that have pretty much the same bark patterns so when I saw your little bit of nasty aspen it made me cringe automatically in terror because I knew what I was seeing. When I deal with them I do whatever I have to avoid being high up in one without remote support for me and the tree.

Some people even call these little eastern cottonwoods aspen because they are so similar.

So when faced with another tree like this look for ways to guy the tree, its not that hard, doesn't take long, feels like a fresh set of panties.

Sometimes I remove other trees just to drop one of these if I can't do the tree without risk. I tell clients straight up just what and how I told you. They don't have to like it and I don't have to risk more than I am making on the job for some POS little scrappy tree that looks like it would take five minutes to climb.


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## TheJollyLogger

Well, I'm glad you're able to keep your panties clean.


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## miko0618

what a scary situation! i am glad you are ok.


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## TheJollyLogger

Thanks, Mike


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## derwoodii

glad your ok you got a good story to tell.
A scary ride over and down in bucket or tree is one of my wake up nightmares awful feeling accelerating arced angle fall.


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## Creeker

Interesting thread here, without jumping on a band wagon to have a go at the OP can I firstly say I'm glad to read you will recover and that you're still with us.

Not being a climber it would have been a rope up as high as I could get it to redirect it and straight forward felling with that much room to play with. If the natural lean was towards the building it only needed to come round 10 or 15 degrees from what's in the pic.

I understand TJL was probably trying to minimise damage to other trees by taking the top out but maybe it would have fitted to the Right of the building. Dunno, wasn't there !

Thanks for the thread TJL, I'm sure it is a valuable lesson for all of us. A day you don't learn something is a poor day.


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## TheJollyLogger

Power line was just past the coop. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## DR. P. Proteus

TheJollyLogger said:


> Well, I'm glad you're able to keep your panties clean.



Just trying to help keep yers clean too.


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## miko0618

Not to be off topic but heres 2 tulip trees i have to do in a couple weeks. They are probably the biggest tulip trees i've touched. They are pushing 120' in height. The trunks are almost 3' and stay that way for nearly 60'. I have to agree that i dont like them too much. I dont trust the wood. But, i am excited to play in these


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## TheJollyLogger

Nice... way different than aspen.


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## derwoodii

miko0618 said:


> View attachment 364615
> 
> 
> Not to be off topic but heres 2 tulip trees i have to do in a couple weeks. They are probably the biggest tulip trees i've touched. They are pushing 120' in height. The trunks are almost 3' and stay that way for nearly 60'. I have to agree that i dont like them too much. I dont trust the wood. But, i am excited to play in these



about 120 feet huh ok just working out the maths and 

http://www.gravitycalc.com/

ops wait a mo ah 2.7 sec gets you down 34 m or bout 120 foot

The object has a velocity of *26.477955* meters per second after 2.7 seconds on Earth. This is *95.320638* kilometers per hour, and *59.2294984789* miles per hour.


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## TheJollyLogger

btw, those trees are only about 60' tall


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## Toddppm

I was thinking the tips are pushing 80 if we're being generous. Move that POS of shed and drop them, put POS shed back afterwards.


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## miko0618

TheJollyLogger said:


> btw, those trees are only about 60' tall


Yeah right. I'll drop a tape down on my helmet camera for you.


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## DR. P. Proteus

miko0618 said:


> View attachment 364615
> 
> 
> Not to be off topic but heres 2 tulip trees i have to do in a couple weeks. They are probably the biggest tulip trees i've touched. They are pushing 120' in height. The trunks are almost 3' and stay that way for nearly 60'. I have to agree that i dont like them too much. I dont trust the wood. But, i am excited to play in these




I am using the shed as a ruler, the tree look about 75 feet tall.


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## miko0618

I think you might be using the shed as a reference. The trees are well behind it. The tree closest to it has another tree in front. On the right tree, measure the width of the trunk. Its 42 times higher than wide. The trunk is atleast 30"


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## lone wolf

miko0618 said:


> I think you might be using the shed as a reference. The trees are well behind it. The tree closest to it has another tree in front. On the right tree, measure the width of the trunk. Its 42 times higher than wide. The trunk is atleast 30"


I would bet money they are taller than 60 foot based on the trunk diam and knowing what Tulips usually are. Look at the other trees to the left side.


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## miko0618

I can see why they might look under what i said. Its camera trickery. Its not uncommon for a tulip tree to hit 80' with a 16" trunk around here.


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## HuskStihl

They are definitely at least 300 years old, however.


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## DR. P. Proteus

miko0618 said:


> I think you might be using the shed as a reference. The trees are well behind it. The tree closest to it has another tree in front. On the right tree, measure the width of the trunk. Its 42 times higher than wide. The trunk is atleast 30"



Yes, if I can't use the shed as ruler then I am lost, the trunks look as though they very well could be supporting such loft.

Sort of the same thing with these, if the wood has been compromised don't trust it, base failure is quite possible if compromised so is upper canopy, make sure your rig point matches what you are rigging.

I don't often use a false crotch to tie into but I do with these because high good crotches on these are weak and the entire force of you dangling down the whole length of the limbs gets to be a bit, uh, bendy so I tie in right below a crotch, on the fat wood, that I would normally use on another type of tree. You start climbing all the way out the line and working the tree getting it rocking and such then look up to see yer TIP on that brittle **** up there...

When these trees or limbs grow horizontal you might want to think about doing the job when the leaves are off to save laundry bills.

If ever you think yer TIP or rig point or support will blow out these are the trees you are thinking about.

The only thing nice about them is they are easy cutting, the limbs come down fast.


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## miko0618

I didnt see anything wrong with the trees. There has been a string of tree failure accidents in our area. People are scared now. Some are falling on moving cars, parked cars, houses ect... and killing people. Which happens but has been unusually regular here lately


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## DR. P. Proteus

miko0618 said:


> I can see why they might look under what i said. Its camera trickery. Its not uncommon for a tulip tree to hit 80' with a 16" trunk around here.



Yes they do grow like that.

We all use reason and sound logic though I sometimes account for every living thing having TUWTB ( The Universal Will To Be), some people say soul, I dunno, whatever.

But that is also what holds a tree up in this universe and the tree knows about it too and has been doing what it can to BE in this universe while adapting to whatever the universe is throwing at it and its been doing pretty good until one day YOU come along and give it a nudge. It wasn't expecting that.

What can I say? Do you have a better reason the damn thing is still standing?


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## DR. P. Proteus

miko0618 said:


> I didnt see anything wrong with the trees. There has been a string of tree failure accidents in our area. People are scared now. Some are falling on moving cars, parked cars, houses ect... and killing people. Which happens but has been unusually regular here lately



When they get that big the wing breaks the tops out and they crash on the bedroom roof's.

The trees is your picture looked like have been reduce by either topping or storm damage.


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## miko0618

I think they are just thin from growing too close together


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## DR. P. Proteus

miko0618 said:


> I think they are just thin from growing too close together




Something was there and the trees were competing with it for much of their lives. They are not very broad are they?


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## miko0618

No. I honestly dont see many broad tulips. They are just like these.


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## miko0618




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## DR. P. Proteus

I am still not getting over 100 feet using the person in the picture as a ruler.


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## miko0618

Yeah when i scale that pic i get about 80'. The tree beside it is about 15 feet taller. I dont know if its the wide angle cell camera affected by tilt causing an illusion? Lol. I get 105 on the shorter tree on site. I will drop a tape where i take the top and measure the top too. 

And sorry for the thread hi-jack. This kinda took on its own life.


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## Toddppm

Maybe a shot laying on the ground right at the base shooting straight up will make it look taller?  Closer up pic of the girl too might help....


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## greg storms

glad you survived; thanks for sharing! i learned plenty, egos et al.


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## Stayalert

Tulip trees aside for a moment…. 

I want to thank the OP for sharing and wish him a speedy recovery. I have a dozen or so poplar trees at my house that I have wanted to take down for a few years…I feel they have just outlived & outgrown their strength. they are tall, some have some lean….They are by my driveway and I see them every freaking day……They are exactly the type of tree that I worry would fail while topping...Jolly you are so lucky your injuries weren't MUCH worse!!!) - I climb and do tree work pretty much full time in the Summer but am self taught and have only been climbing for about 5 or 6 years…I have thought out a few ways of dealing with these trees but just haven't gotten around to taking them out just yet…Jolly's scenario is pretty much identical to the one I could see happening and is why the trees are still where they are….Heal fast!


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## TheJollyLogger

Thanks. It's slowly healing. I have two more weeks til my next appt. Hopefully I can get out of this immobilizer at that point and get going on some PT. Hoping to be back up and running by December.


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## jomoco

Were you relieving weight(limbs) as you went up JL?

I've gone over with a palm that was root pruned a bit too much.

But fortunately for me it went over slow enough to allow me to undo my lanyard and bail off as it hit the ground. Otherwise the trunk would've beat me to death.

Fractured clavicles are agonizing. Hope you're not allergic to percodan!

My left clav's held together with a titanium strap n screws, but I still climb!

Best of luck on a quick recovery mate!

I'd have kept that saw running and cut my lanyards and Body line like my life depended on it..

jomoco


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## TheJollyLogger

Yes, I was limbing on the way up, not that there was much on it. It was a typical aspen, pretty smooth trunk up to where I was topping it.


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## jomoco

Did you rigging the top mean you intended to catch and lower it, but it failed prior to any rigging forces coming into play?

So even if you'd said the heck with any rigging, and free felled the upper 15 foot head, the tree would've broke at the base anyway?

You're shakin my faith in mother nature's ability to weed out the weak and flawed trees with wind n rain.

I like nice violent storms. Makes my job safer. I often look up at iffy leaners thinkin, heck, if it stayed up in that last blow? This'll be cake!

jomoco


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## TheJollyLogger

Correct. It failed before the rigging came into play. We had had two major wind events in the previous two months, so I was surprised too.


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## miko0618

I thought you broke it while rigging it. Its even worse with the new information!


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## TheJollyLogger

That rot was brittle, felt fine until it just gave, no warning.


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## pro94lt

How are you doing jolly?


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## TheJollyLogger

Still laid up and fighting the insurance company. I go see the doc tuesday to see if I can take the immobilizer off and start PT.


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## ggoodman

If anyone should fall from a tree, please take your self to the er and get scanned ASAP as there are way to many way to cause internal bleeding that can and will kill you in a hurry. sharp bones slice well. Glad your still here to tell the tale.


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## jomoco

With a clav that badly broken?

You would be very wise to take it slow and easy until it's had time to graft together again properly.

I know a couple Macho blokes who didn't, ending with disgusting bulges of calcification just beneath the skin, on their clav's, giving them the igor look 

Take the time your doc tells yu to mate.

Don't turn a temp injury into a lifetime ailment.

6 weeks or so as I recall for a broken bone to mend....

jomoco


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## TheJollyLogger

It's been almost seven weeks since the surgery. I just need to get healed up and working. Insurance co. is trying to starve me to death.


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## Stayalert

Sux about the insurance. Still wary of a bunch of trees on "My list" ……Heal well.


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## TheJollyLogger

update: Saw the doc today, out of the immobilizer, pt starts tomorrow. Hurts, but it's forward progress at least.


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## TheJollyLogger

First PT appt. today. I was tempted to go fall out of a tree just to get some relief.


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## TheJollyLogger

So to guys that have survivrd a fall. I guess slways in the bsck of my mind I thought this might happen. Having a tough time picturing what comes next.Aside from the physical aspect, what was that first climb like?


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## HuskStihl

You've been married about 7 times. You are therefore probably the most mentally tough man on the planet


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## mckenzie355

If at all possible, when I climb something to be removed, I always look for alternate tie in . Also when I'm in a leaner, I always try to play the lean, and take small bites. All in all that's some Scarry crap. I've had to make a couple emergency evacs my self. Glad your alright

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


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## TheJollyLogger

All right is a relative term, but I'll get through it.Better support from the boss would have been nice, dropped me like a hot rock. It's all good.


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## HuskStihl

Sorry to hear that. Nice to see loyalty is alive and well


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## tramp bushler

Good to see your getting your pt ! . Where r u at. Still in Fairbanks or South.


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## pro94lt

Yeah how are you doing? Any long term issues?


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## TheJollyLogger

Still in Fairbanks. Comp hearing is the eighteenth. Still a dealing with more pain than I'd anticipated this far out. Looks like I'll recover 80-90%, so I'm probably retired from climbing.


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## tramp bushler

R u set up ok ? Digs plenty warm ect. ? I'll b in Fairbanks at some point probably within a month or so . Lord willing that is. Gotta go to Fbk. to go to the Slope.


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## square1

TheJollyLogger said:


> Still a dealing with more pain than I'd anticipated this far out.


The pain will be with you a while. It's been two years & two months since i busted mine and I still feel it every day & every night. You get used to it (sorta). Best wishes on a speedy & complete recovery.


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## HuskStihl

Hey Glen, how've you been? Still working oilfield? 
Jeff, I sure hope you are able to return to climbing, unless of course you'd rather be doing something else. Fear of heights and clumsiness forced me to quit climbing (ladders and such) a few years ago, and I miss it every day.


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## TheJollyLogger

Thanks guys. Yeah, Glen, hanging in there for now. Place is warm enough. Just want to get this board hearing done and my wages corrected.


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## scott augur

Jolly, It is timely that I read your thread about riding one down. I'm operating in Cascadia....that's the west side of the cascade mountains in Washington State. I'm half way done with taking out 6 Douglas Fir from a small lot with a big cabin in a crowded neighborhood. The lot is on a corner, so there are primary high tension lines on two sides and the clients house on a third side and the neighbors house on a fourth side. I like the Douglas Fir for climbing and down rigging and such. However, we have a root rot here (_phellinus weirii) _and having worked in this neighborhood for a few years, it is well established. The first 3 I did last week were on one side of the house. No sign of rot running up into the stump on those. However, with this rot, the roots can turn into mush and the stump wood is still sound. The tree I'm loosing sleep over is on the other side of the place, right up against the house and leaning over the roof. It is what I call a "whip"...an understory tree that just couldn't quite keep up with the rest of the stand around it. It is 75-80 footer surrounded by taller, thicker trees. Relatively skinny D.B.H. compared to it's height. With the lean, I'm thinking the roots are punking out. I was planning on guying it about half way up wit two ropes at different angles and then going up to a small light top and having the wife (my groundie) pull the top away from the house. Now I'm thinkin' ..._NOT_! Just from looking at the picture you posted, it doesn't look like guying would have helped keep your tree up. Even in your photo I can see the funky wood grain that failed. Guying wouldn't have helped. The client asked me how I was going to do it, and I told him I was going to climb to the top, jump up and down, and get the tree to settle on the house, then ride it down the pitch of the roof and jump from the tree into his hot tub on the deck just before it falls on me. He didn't think it was funny, but my wife cracked up. Now, I have over laid your scenario on this tree and think I will monkey up far enough to put a pull line in it and have the wife use the pickup to pull it over. I'll have to block traffic and drop it in the street, but that will be easier than trying to unstrap my butt and fall into the hot tub. The cheapest experience one can buy is some one else's. Get well soon and thanks for posting your original...who knows...it could have saved my life. Scott


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## TheJollyLogger

Thanks, Scott. Sounds like you have a tricky one to deal with. If you've got room to drop it, that sounds like a good plan. Be sure and post some pics and an update. Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger

And by the way, I wouldn't reccomend the unhook and jump method. It happens way too fast, lol.


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## tramp bushler

The Tramp has pretty much been in Glennallen all year since I got back from the Slope at the end of April . Been putting in my winters firewood for a while. Getting things ready to go back up soon.


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## mdavlee

Don't be a stranger Glen.


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## tramp bushler

The site seems to be working so thats good . Spent the summer playing with my 6.5 Creedmoor.


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## hseII

I'm just starting to get into climbing, but I've dropped at least 25 populars on our property, from 40' to 100' tall, and every single one of them had some hollow at the base.
Granted, some were worse than others, but not a 1 was completely solid.
Evidently that is the norm around here.


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## tramp bushler

Yup , gravity is a constant , relatively speaking . Tree health is not !!!!


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## TheJollyLogger

Glen, you'd best not swing through the banks on the way to the Slope without stopping by to say howdy!


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## ChoppyChoppy

Bunch of AK guys in here huh?


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## tramp bushler

Garrentee I wont. will probably have a couple days there before my flight.


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## tramp bushler

yes Valley , there is several of us on here.


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## HuskStihl

I was on the road this weekend as well


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## TheJollyLogger

Looking forward to seeing that sign Jon.


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## HuskStihl

Figured you might be by now


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## TheJollyLogger

Well, looks like I may be a retired climber. 12% disability on the shoulder and the last doc x-rayed it and reccomended another surgery.


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## pro94lt

12%??? I've put the out riggers down on several that I normally would have went up since ready this thread. .. how do you feel


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## TheJollyLogger

I guess I should clarify. 12% is my whole body impairment rating, which the ins. cos use for compensation and retraining eligibility. my motion is 40-60% and strength is pathetic. Pain is chronic, mostly motion and weather related. It usually just feels stiff, but it can flair up pretty good.


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## jomoco

Bummer JL, sorry to hear such painful news mate.

Modern medicine's done good by me so far, knock on sound wood.

Chin up, then heal up, whatever yu gotta do to make a livin JL.

jomoco


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## KenJax Tree

Listen to your body, if you hurt hang it up. I'd rather have my tax money pay you disability than to have it pay for some scum that just doesn't want to work.


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## TheJollyLogger

I'll be all right. Just going to have to reinvent myself.


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## OTS & consultants Inc.

I don,t trust any poplar, willow or linden species with the first two emphasized. It's always the ones that look sound, or healthy that get yah!
It wasn't your time, good to share this stuff with others, glad yor here to tell us the tale.... hope you will get back on the horse and put it behind you when your good and ready!


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## TheJollyLogger

Update: I have to have another surgery.


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## jomoco

What's the prob JL?

Rotator cuff?

jomoco


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## TheJollyLogger

Yup, I kept telling the doc it wasn't getting better. He released me, said it was fine. Went to another doc for my disability assessment, he x rayed it and recommend ed surgery. Ins. Co. Sent me to Anchorage to see their doc and he ordered an MRI and recommend ed surgery. So I basically spent the last six months rehabbing a busted shoulder. Got to start the whole process over.


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## TheJollyLogger

Another update: Insurance will pay for the surgery in Texas, but I have to get myself down there. I have to get back to Great Falls to get my truck and then drive down. It's the rotator cuff, which they didn't fix the first time. I basically spent six months trying to rehab a busted shoulder. I definitely don't want to have another surgery up here, the best doc already took his best shot.

Anyway, I set up a gofundme acct, if anybody wants to maybe cut into the beer budget this weekend and chip in I sure would appreciate it. I just want to get back home, get healed up, and get back to smelling two stroke!

http://www.gofundme.com/tcq2jv4?fb_...tion_type_map=["og.shares"]&action_ref_map=[]

Thanks, Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger

Good news is I'm headed back. Bad news is I need another surgery. Worse news is he won't return my gear.


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## TheJollyLogger

That tree really ****ed me up. I have a planeticket home I'm scared to ttake I didnt do anything wrong


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## KenJax Tree

Damn that pic[emoji15] warn a guy next time, huh? Lol glad it all came together Jeff[emoji106]


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## TheJollyLogger

I did it by the books Chris and it still didnt matter, shouldn't have walked away from it


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## pro94lt

Anything you always thought you could do but just never had the balls to try??? Your truly on your second life...


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## TheJollyLogger

Yeah, I'm gonna try boring for a while, maybe a desk job.


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## Jed1124

Sales arborist can be a pretty good gig. At least it will keep you in the biz. You seem like a knowledgeable guy. Start making the money selling and let the other guys do the back breaking work


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## greg storms

Be thankful you can talk about the unfortunate incident. Be prepared for a lengthy recovery n rehab period after the surgery. It takes so long to get shoulder strength back. Climbing too soon would likely do more harm than good.


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## ropensaddle

TheJollyLogger said:


> yeah, Ive had way too much time to think this week. 99.9% sounds good til ou multiply it by 10,000 trees, lol


Ha only 10000 that was my first five years lol  Get well bro that is a climbers night mare when healed go low n slow again


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## ropensaddle

greg storms said:


> Be thankful you can talk about the unfortunate incident. Be prepared for a lengthy recovery n rehab period after the surgery. It takes so long to get shoulder strength back. Climbing too soon would likely do more harm than good.


I smashed left scapula,fractured right scapula dislocated the left ball and socket broke both collar bones and broke ribs puntured a lung cracked a vertibrae and was climbing 3 months after til now! Yes I still hurt but if I had not went back I could not climb today.


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## jomoco

I need some percs just reading your post Rope!

That crunch of bone on bone with each breath!

jomoco


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## ropensaddle

jomoco said:


> I need some percs just reading your post Rope!
> 
> That crunch of bone on bone with each breath!
> 
> jomoco


Well I am still amazed I never took anything other than regular Tylenol but then I could not sleep for a month after my wreck! The human body is amazingly tough as long as we don't surrender imo. I hope to be climbing til 70 granted not like I did at 30 but lol  Jolly will be back on rope he is a climber and he will overcome the pain climbing is a blood thing imo it gets in the blood for life.


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## jomoco

ropensaddle said:


> Well I am still amazed I never took anything other than regular Tylenol but then I could not sleep for a month after my wreck! The human body is amazingly tough as long as we don't surrender imo. I hope to be climbing til 70 granted not like I did at 30 but lol  Jolly will be back on rope he is a climber and he will overcome the pain climbing is a blood thing imo it gets in the blood for life.



All of us old orthopedic wrecks'll need push button up n down, push button start n stop trimsaws, inline oxygen feeds, the works!

There's more satisfaction doing fine class one pruning of huge trees, than being their grim reaper however respectfully.

I know a few 70 plus climbers myself, but they're only good for a half day climbin.

I'm not any good for much more than half a day myself lately!

Don't tell me that hospital didn't hook you up on some kinda morphine during your stay Rope!

You ain't that tough!

jomoco


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## TheJollyLogger

I am home!


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## ropensaddle

jomoco said:


> All of us old orthopedic wrecks'll need push button up n down, push button start n stop trimsaws, inline oxygen feeds, the works!
> 
> There's more satisfaction doing fine class one pruning of huge trees, than being their grim reaper however respectfully.
> 
> I know a few 70 plus climbers myself, but they're only good for a half day climbin.
> 
> I'm not any good for much more than half a day myself lately!
> 
> Don't tell me that hospital didn't hook you up on some kinda morphine during your stay Rope!
> 
> You ain't that tough!
> 
> jomoco


Well yes at hospital I had stuff but after out they gave prescription i never filled as I can't stand codeine rather hurt than be sick!


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## hseII

This Thread Needs Bumping.


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## ropensaddle

hseII said:


> This Thread Needs Bumping.


Lol relax I'm still climbing  I just got new toy rope wrench now I can see extending 20 more years to my climbing


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## TheJollyLogger

Good to hear it. We just settled my case last week, but my climbing days are over, I'm afraid. Shoulder has good days and bad days, but it could have been way worse.


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## ropensaddle

TheJollyLogger said:


> Good to hear it. We just settled my case last week, but my climbing days are over, I'm afraid. Shoulder has good days and bad days, but it could have been way worse.


I hear you on good and bad days I had them since but my only choice was to get back on rope so i did! If you ever get up this way holler I'll give you a wraptor ride


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## murphy4trees

miko0618 said:


> I thought you broke it while rigging it. Its even worse with the new information!


Ya that just sounds like one of those 1 in 10,000 that there is just no way to predict .... its a matter of pdds... knowing species that are inclined to such weaknesses helps too.. around here its dead ash... even if the top liooks good the base can give out.. Buddy of mine went up a lrge dead ash... made the first cut and the whole tree fell out from under him... fortunatelty he was tied to a nearby tree.


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## rarefish383

Wow, I can't believe it's been 2 years. I'm glad you are still with us, and still hanging out on AS.My Dad took a bad fall when he was 60, about 30'. He was the most safety oriented person I ever met. Yet, he broke one of his own cardinal rules. Never use some one else's equipment. Our shop was about 35-40 miles out in the country from most of our work. Our top climber lived "down county", so we let him meet us on site. One day he didn't show. Dad swung by to check on us, he was running estimates in his Cadillac, so none of his gear. He got our climbers gear and started elevating the roof line of a two story house. In a blink he was on the ground. Broke his left shoulder, hip, and ankle. He landed on his Super EZ, cracking several vertebrae. When we inspected our climbers rope we found several spots where the inner core had been pinched off. Most of our work was in high end neighborhoods, where we seldom dropped big logs across lawns. We would chunk the stem down in firewood size blocks making one dent in the ground that could be filled with a wheel barrow of soil. Our climber had the bad habit of dropping chunks on his rope. We figured he had dropped chunks and the sharp edge of the chunk had pinched the rope on roots or rocks. That was in the early days of braided rope. Dad recovered and continued to climb some into his 70's. He passed in 2004 from prostate cancer at 81. I just turned 60. I haven't been in a tree since I got my knee replaced last November, and it really surprised me, I don't miss it. I still play with my mill and my guns. I just bought a Savage 1919 NRA Match rifle. The second 5 shot group, at 25 yards, was a single hole about 3/8 of an inch. There is life after tree work. If you have to let it go, let it go. God bless, Joe.


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## hseII

rarefish383 said:


> Wow, I can't believe it's been 2 years. I'm glad you are still with us, and still hanging out on AS.My Dad took a bad fall when he was 60, about 30'. He was the most safety oriented person I ever met. Yet, he broke one of his own cardinal rules. Never use some one else's equipment. Our shop was about 35-40 miles out in the country from most of our work. Our top climber lived "down county", so we let him meet us on site. One day he didn't show. Dad swung by to check on us, he was running estimates in his Cadillac, so none of his gear. He got our climbers gear and started elevating the roof line of a two story house. In a blink he was on the ground. Broke his left shoulder, hip, and ankle. He landed on his Super EZ, cracking several vertebrae. When we inspected our climbers rope we found several spots where the inner core had been pinched off. Most of our work was in high end neighborhoods, where we seldom dropped big logs across lawns. We would chunk the stem down in firewood size blocks making one dent in the ground that could be filled with a wheel barrow of soil. Our climber had the bad habit of dropping chunks on his rope. We figured he had dropped chunks and the sharp edge of the chunk had pinched the rope on roots or rocks. That was in the early days of braided rope. Dad recovered and continued to climb some into his 70's. He passed in 2004 from prostate cancer at 81. I just turned 60. I haven't been in a tree since I got my knee replaced last November, and it really surprised me, I don't miss it. I still play with my mill and my guns. I just bought a Savage 1919 NRA Match rifle. The second 5 shot group, at 25 yards, was a single hole about 3/8 of an inch. There is life after tree work. If you have to let it go, let it go. God bless, Joe.



Great Post.


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## Pete6

jomoco said:


> Did you rigging the top mean you intended to catch and lower it, but it failed prior to any rigging forces coming into play?
> 
> So even if you'd said the heck with any rigging, and free felled the upper 15 foot head, the tree would've broke at the base anyway?
> 
> You're shakin my faith in mother nature's ability to weed out the weak and flawed trees with wind n rain.
> 
> I like nice violent storms. Makes my job safer. I often look up at iffy leaners thinkin, heck, if it stayed up in that last blow? This'll be cake!
> 
> jomoco


"
"I like nice violent storms. Makes my job safer. I often look up at iffy leaners thinkin, heck, if it stayed up in that last blow? This'll be cake!"

I think this is a false and potentially dangerous notion of security. When storms take a tree, trees or just sections of a tree out they can expose other trees or limbs to wind-loading they have never been exposed to before. Trees often , not invariably, put on strength in relation to the loads they experience. For example: think of a square forest losing trees on the edge which have sheltered to next row for years on end.


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## TheJollyLogger

Hey yall


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## mncutter

I’ve just found this post now. Just a homeowner that messes with saws. How did you end up coming out on this whole deal?


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## TheJollyLogger

mncutter said:


> I’ve just found this post now. Just a homeowner that messes with saws. How did you end up coming out on this whole deal?


Well, I am doing ok, building docks in Corpus Christi. Shoulder still gives me trouble sometimes, but not too bad.


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## beardface

TheJollyLogger said:


> You know what sucks, is anytime soomething goes wrong, I always go back and figure out what I could have done differently. This was just a case of the wrong damn tree. It's kind of haunting me, because I wouldn't hve done anything differently with the information I had.


Nothing mate - I’ve never ever trusted aspen or any poplars they are the worst for misbehaving and simply too brittle to trust, hinges pop well before or simply never hold and yeah, I hate them . I rarely snatch and dislike lowering even if it’s off a different stem to my anchor. I’m glad you are ok but you ain’t alone dude , don’t sweat it , of all the aspens/poplars I’ve had to dismantle 70% have been real nightmares with a few memorable specimens nearly taking me with them or leaving me feeling like that’s the last one I do... 
best wishes and speedy recovery.


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## TheJollyLogger

beardface said:


> Nothing mate - I’ve never ever trusted aspen or any poplars they are the worst for misbehaving and simply too brittle to trust, hinges pop well before or simply never hold and yeah, I hate them . I rarely snatch and dislike lowering even if it’s off a different stem to my anchor. I’m glad you are ok but you ain’t alone dude , don’t sweat it , of all the aspens/poplars I’ve had to dismantle 70% have been real nightmares with a few memorable specimens nearly taking me with them or leaving me feeling like that’s the last one I do...
> best wishes and speedy recovery.


Well, you climb 10,000 trees and 99% doesn't sound so good, lol. I think of that day a lot, and there are many things I could have done differently, but water under the bridge...


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## rarefish383

I remember way back when this happened. I'm glad you're here with us, literally , and you're still here just to hang out. I used to be on the Safety Committee at UPS. They used to say I had more safety info than the safety books. Most of it came from insurance pamphlets when I was still working for Dad in the tree business. One thing they called the "Factor of three", was most accidents have three points of human failure to take place, if only two points happen, it's a near miss and we never hear of it. One case we had on video. We were asked to watch the video and tell who was at fault. I was the only one that got the question right. A teen age boy in a new Camaro, with his girl friend, ran a red light at over 100 miles per hour and hit the UPS truck broadside, killing both kids. The Police did not charge the driver. Every one in the class said it was the kids fault. I said that clearly, in the video, the driver had his computer board on the steering wheel texting. The light turned green and he pulled out. One, he did not look left, right, left, per UPS procedure, and two, he did not count one, two, three, before pulling out, per UPS procedure. If the driver had of done either of those things he would be telling his friends about the crazy kid. If the kid hadn't of been going 100 MPH and ran a red light, he'd still be alive. The failures don't have to be on one person. When we get over pointing fingers and placing blame, and looking for the root cause, we can actually eliminate some accidents. 

I think analyzing every mess up is a healthy thing. Next time you see or hear of an accident, try to find one point of human failure. Once you find one, I bet you can find two more. Not coming to work on that day isn't the answer. Forget about whose fault it is, no blame, no finger pointing. Just look for the root cause, so it can be avoided in the future. 

UPS charged the driver with failure to follow procedures, resulting in an accident, and took him off the road for a year, and put him to work inside loading trailers. The driver admitted he was running late and as soon as the light turned green he jumped on it.


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## TheJollyLogger

rarefish383 said:


> I remember way back when this happened. I'm glad you're here with us, literally , and you're still here just to hang out. I used to be on the Safety Committee at UPS. They used to say I had more safety info than the safety books. Most of it came from insurance pamphlets when I was still working for Dad in the tree business. One thing they called the "Factor of three", was most accidents have three points of human failure to take place, if only two points happen, it's a near miss and we never hear of it. One case we had on video. We were asked to watch the video and tell who was at fault. I was the only one that got the question right. A teen age boy in a new Camaro, with his girl friend, ran a red light at over 100 miles per hour and hit the UPS truck broadside, killing both kids. The Police did not charge the driver. Every one in the class said it was the kids fault. I said that clearly, in the video, the driver had his computer board on the steering wheel texting. The light turned green and he pulled out. One, he did not look left, right, left, per UPS procedure, and two, he did not count one, two, three, before pulling out, per UPS procedure. If the driver had of done either of those things he would be telling his friends about the crazy kid. If the kid hadn't of been going 100 MPH and ran a red light, he'd still be alive. The failures don't have to be on one person. When we get over pointing fingers and placing blame, and looking for the root cause, we can actually eliminate some accidents.
> 
> I think analyzing every mess up is a healthy thing. Next time you see or hear of an accident, try to find one point of human failure. Once you find one, I bet you can find two more. Not coming to work on that day isn't the answer. Forget about whose fault it is, no blame, no finger pointing. Just look for the root cause, so it can be avoided in the future.
> 
> UPS charged the driver with failure to follow procedures, resulting in an accident, and took him off the road for a year, and put him to work inside loading trailers. The driver admitted he was running late and as soon as the light turned green he jumped on it.


Believe me fish, I have revisited that day many times, both awake and asleep... and yes there were plenty of points of failure... For my part, I shouldn't have taken that big a top with a groundie I didn't fully trust, which meant I was just climbing to get out of there, etc, etc...


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