# Had this tree failed



## Corymbia (Jul 18, 2011)

I have a report form an arborist that says that this tree was *"wind-thrown, that is, the root-plate was tilted out of the ground"* and therefore was cut down.

When I look at the photograph I just don't see evidence that the tree had failed in this way but perhaps I am missing something. The repair in the blacktop was done before the alleged failure occurred. Am I missing something?

View attachment 191137


I would genuinely appreciate hearing other's perspective and opinions on this stump.


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## ch woodchuck (Jul 18, 2011)

Assuming the root system failed due to a small, soil compacted area And a large heavy crown;it is possible for trees to''lift''.When the weight is taken off the root ball They can flop back into the hole.Difficult to say from the pic.Perhaps it was beginning to lift,doesn't need to be much before liability/property damage becomes an issue.Also....If the root system was compromised then working the top to lighten the crown weight would not have been advisable.
I would say that the repair to the blacktop ''may'' have been part of the problem.Possible root damage from excavation..severing the horizionally spreading roots,which anchor the tree to the soil (Don't know if that specie is shallow rooted)If the tree was leaning in the direction of the street....and the black top work was on the sidewalk side,that may have been a problem.
These are ideas/issues that I've dealt with over the years.In this case they are generalizations......

That photo is 4yrs old..............


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## Corymbia (Jul 18, 2011)

ch woodchuck said:


> Assuming the root system failed due to a small, soil compacted area And a large heavy crown;it is possible for trees to''lift''.When the weight is taken off the root ball They can flop back into the hole.Difficult to say from the pic.Perhaps it was beginning to lift,doesn't need to be much before liability/property damage becomes an issue.Also....If the root system was compromised then working the top to lighten the crown weight would not have been advisable.
> I would say that the repair to the blacktop ''may'' have been part of the problem.Possible root damage from excavation..severing the horizionally spreading roots,which anchor the tree to the soil (Don't know if that specie is shallow rooted)If the tree was leaning in the direction of the street....and the black top work was on the sidewalk side,that may have been a problem.
> These are ideas/issues that I've dealt with over the years.In this case they are generalizations......
> 
> That photo is 4yrs old..............


 
Thanks!

Yes the incident occurred 4 years ago. The soil is sandy, From what I understand the blacktop repair just went over the top with no cutting of roots. The natural lean of the canopy was away from the road. I am not sure which side of the root plate lifted as I cannot see any evidence of cracking or lifting of the adjacent surfaces and that is what confuses me. 

I would have expected some cracking and heaving to still be evident. I have never seen a stump on a wind thrown tree just sit perfectly back in place and I am not seeing any damage to the blacktop which I assume must have cracked and separated if the root ball was out of the ground.

I agree with your comments on pruning.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 22, 2011)

Seems like maybe it could of lifted the sidewalk, so it was remove and new concrete sidewalk poured. I don't see the back side of the sidewalk replaced, the back curb. If that tree failed, that back raised curb concrete would of broke. Is it a Ficus?
Jeff


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## Corymbia (Jul 23, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Seems like maybe it could of lifted the sidewalk, so it was remove and new concrete sidewalk poured. I don't see the back side of the sidewalk replaced, the back curb. If that tree failed, that back raised curb concrete would of broke. Is it a Ficus?
> Jeff


 
Jeff, it is a Ficus. It is the stump of 1 of 2 trees that were alleged to have failed during a storm 2007. As a result the city now wants to remove every tree on the city block because they believe they are all dangerous.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 23, 2011)

Corymbia said:


> Jeff, it is a Ficus. It is the stump of 1 of 2 trees that were alleged to have failed during a storm 2007. As a result the city now wants to remove every tree on the city block because they believe they are all dangerous.


 
Mark, look at the backside of the sidewalk. You would think that would have broke with the fail. That tree did not fail(imo), I think a lifting may have prompted the removal. 
Jeff


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## Corymbia (Jul 26, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Mark, look at the backside of the sidewalk. You would think that would have broke with the fail. That tree did not fail(imo), I think a lifting may have prompted the removal.
> Jeff


 
I just cant imagine how the root plate could tilt out of the ground and then just sit perfectly back in place! Even more so I cant see how the roots would repair the blacktop ... perhaps the city should hire the roots to do road repairs:hmm3grin2orange:


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## deercatcher (Jul 28, 2011)

Something very smelly going on here. I do not think the photo shows any evidence at all of the described failure. Wish we had more better pictures. There is a form of insanity, in my opinion, that the world is a safe place. If anything goes wrong, some one is responsible, and needs to be sued. The trees look magnificent to me- and the neighborhood should be proud of them, defend them. Unless of course this is a known dangerous kind of tree. I have nothing in my experience to compare it to evaluate the danger of ficus street trees. I have dealt with many uproots, and that aint it. I suspect someone is drumming up work; maybe with kickbacks to an official...


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## Corymbia (Dec 11, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Mark, look at the backside of the sidewalk. You would think that would have broke with the fail. That tree did not fail(imo), I think a lifting may have prompted the removal.
> Jeff



Based on the evidence of a qualified expert this tree was "wind thrown with its root plate tilted out of the ground" Newcastle City Council has decided to remove 14 trees. 

In addition, the expert dug trenches under the road where he thought "structural roots" would be found in hydrophobic sandy soil and found no large woody roots to a depth of 3 feet. From the trenching work he concluded that the root plates of the trees are asymmetrical and therefore the remaining 14 trees in that one city block have no future and need to be removed. The city then obtained additional reports from experts who determined that the trees were extremely hazardous and needed to be removed as a matter of urgency quoting probabilities of failure of 1 in 7.5 to 1 in 10.

That was 4.5 years ago, The trees are all there and the city has spent $1.6 million, more than $1.2 million defending its decision in the last 18 months since it was revealed that the belief that the trees failed as described was based on hearsay of a third party. Oddly, since the probabilities of failure have been discredited as fanciful and the reported failures were simply based on hearsay, not one cent being spent on an independent review.


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