# Stihl 038AV... Anygood???



## tkrd14 (Mar 15, 2006)

Is this saw worth trying to fix? I just moved into a house with a few acres of thick woods. I was planning on buying a new chainsaw, but... I was cleaning out a shed in the back when i found a stihl 038AV. I have no idea how old it might be. It has a broken recoil. I took the recoil cover off and the spark plug out and was able to turn it over. I have also been able to determine that it has spark and compression. should i go further??? how old is it??? I know very little about chainsaws, please advise.


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## retoocs555 (Mar 15, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> Is this saw worth trying to fix? I just moved into a house with a few acres of thick woods. I was planning on buying a new chainsaw, but... I was cleaning out a shed in the back when i found a stihl 038AV. I have no idea how old it might be. It has a broken recoil. I took the recoil cover off and the spark plug out and was able to turn it over. I have also been able to determine that it has spark and compression. should i go further??? how old is it??? I know very little about chainsaws, please advise.



I'd say go for it. Its a great saw. 

A used 038 is worth around $200, to replace it with a comprable new saw is going to be more than double that. You got lucky to find it in a shed!


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## lovetheoutdoors (Mar 15, 2006)

Yes i would fix the saw...its not to old considering they started making that model in 1980....you will have a good saw if it works out :greenchainsaw:


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## Lakeside53 (Mar 15, 2006)

One of the best Stihl saws ever made...

Around here they go for $300+.


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## Madsaw (Mar 15, 2006)

I sent you a email about your saw.
Bob


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## davefr (Mar 15, 2006)

038's are classics in the Stihl lineup. They weigh about as much as 066's but they are very dependable and have gobs or torque.

Parts are easy to find. (Plenty of aftermarket jugs and Ebay parts).


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## Lawn Masters (Mar 15, 2006)

Speaking from experience, I say fix er up, and keep er. I owned one that was rather nice. mine was an 038 MAG II saw, which is 73CCs or so, and VERY high in the torque dept. heavy but tough and reliable saw.


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## THALL10326 (Mar 15, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> Is this saw worth trying to fix? I just moved into a house with a few acres of thick woods. I was planning on buying a new chainsaw, but... I was cleaning out a shed in the back when i found a stihl 038AV. I have no idea how old it might be. It has a broken recoil. I took the recoil cover off and the spark plug out and was able to turn it over. I have also been able to determine that it has spark and compression. should i go further??? how old is it??? I know very little about chainsaws, please advise.



Sounds like you found a goodie hiding in the shed. If I were you I'd take the muffler completely off and take a good look at the piston through the exhaust port, that hole behind the muffler where you can look into the cylinder. Turn the flywheel and watch the piston come to the top of the cylinder. Look at the side of the piston real good for any bad scratching or scuff marks. If you see a nice shiny piston your in business. If you see scratching and scuffing all over the side of the piston your looking at around 200 plus for a new piston and cylinder. Me, I would repair it regardless. The 038 is a old beast of a saw. Its nothing to see 038's come in the shop 15 plus years old and still running like a champ only needing minor odds and ends like a pull rope or a sprocket. Its one of very few Stihl's you can actually push alittle bit through the cut, lots of torque in that thing. Fix her up and enjoy....


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## tkrd14 (Mar 16, 2006)

*038... making progress*

ok... i got the recoil working... looked inside, everything is clean and smooth. I can get it to fire when i spray starting fluid into the carb, but it won't pull gas from the tank. the fuel line is clear (in color) and unobstructed. there is no fuel filter. looks like it is not factory workmanship. does this sound like a carb problem?


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## MikeInParadise (Mar 16, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> ok... i got the recoil working... looked inside, everything is clean and smooth. I can get it to fire when i spray starting fluid into the carb, but it won't pull gas from the tank. the fuel line is clear (in color) and unobstructed. there is no fuel filter. looks like it is not factory workmanship. does this sound like a carb problem?



Seeing as the fuel lines look good I would take apart the carb and put in a carb kit. 

Sounds like like you might get a good saw for yourself without a lot of $$$.


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## TimberPig (Mar 16, 2006)

You should also replace the missing fuel filter before running it, to keep junk out of that freshly rebuilt carb. Both of these parts can be had from a Stihl dealer, or possibly other saw shops. Baileys should also be able to supply you with what you need.


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## Diesel JD (Mar 16, 2006)

Hopefully you are a decent wrench on the carb, they can be a real pita to rebuild for the inexperienced. As Andy can tell you, I rebuilt one completely wrong on an 025. Also make sure you get the right carb kit and get teh carb adjusted as per the manual before firing it up,a nd then adjust from there.


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## Husky nut (Mar 16, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> ok... i got the recoil working... looked inside, everything is clean and smooth. I can get it to fire when i spray starting fluid into the carb, but it won't pull gas from the tank. the fuel line is clear (in color) and unobstructed. there is no fuel filter. looks like it is not factory workmanship. does this sound like a carb problem?




Another small word of advice...DON'T use starting fluid...drop alittle mixed gas in the carb


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## Lakeside53 (Mar 17, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> ok... i got the recoil working... looked inside, everything is clean and smooth. I can get it to fire when i spray starting fluid into the carb, but it won't pull gas from the tank. the fuel line is clear (in color) and unobstructed. there is no fuel filter. looks like it is not factory workmanship. does this sound like a carb problem?




If there is no fuel filter, you definitely have a carb problem.... Don't use starting fluid - you'll cook the piston/cylinder/ whatever.. Use mix.

It could also be impulse line, crank case seals, boot, etc.. but I'd bet on the carb... put a stihl fuel filter back on the hose after you clean out the carb and rebuild it.


It likely has a Bing carb. GREAT carb but incredibly expensive full kit from Stihl (nearly $50). Get an aftermarket kit ($6-12). It won't come with a needle (just use a big Walbro needle), and no metering arm, so don't mess up the one in the carb.


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## tkrd14 (Mar 17, 2006)

*It's Alive!!!*

Hay Everyone,
Thanks for the help. I got it running! it is a beast. Seams like it will run circles around my dad's Poulan that i normally use (i think it is 40cc).

...ahead of you on the fuel filter. 
...i won't use starting fluid anymore.
...it has a tillotson carb. is that odd? the guy at the dealership was surprised
about that too. 
...it says Farm Boss on it.

recoil rope $.50, carb kit $15.76, fuel filter $5.49, gas/oil $to much$, 
free advise from people who know what they are talking about $0
resurrecting a classic for less than $25... Priceless! for everything else....


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## retoocs555 (Mar 17, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> free advise from people who know what they are talking about $0



Actually, I do charge for advice :spam: 

But, really thats awesome that you got it going with that minimum amount of effort. I'm sure it runs huge circles around the poulan


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## Lakeside53 (Mar 17, 2006)

tkrd14 said:


> Hay Everyone,
> Thanks for the help. I got it running! it is a beast. Seams like it will run circles around my dad's Poulan that i normally use (i think it is 40cc).
> 
> ...ahead of you on the fuel filter.
> ...





No surprise on the Tillotson - the early 038's (Farm Boss) had that carb; just don't see all that many of them out here. Easy to rebuild, works fine. The Bing carb came in with the magnums.


No surprise on the Poulan either (but not a fair comparison) - the 038 will cut circles around an 036, and is up the close to the early 044...


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## smokechaser (Mar 17, 2006)

I ran 038s in the ealry 90s till the we started to switch to the 044's. We used 'em for thinnig. They are heavier than the 044 but they are one of the best all around saws of the day. I'll admit that the switching to the 044 was not a fight, but I still keep a 038 just cause I like them so much. The one I still keep is a brazilian made one though. This thing is a out and out ripper. The bigger carb jets rock. Even has the clear tank. 
Keep the 038. It'll treat you right.


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## chrisjoyce (Apr 12, 2011)

*My 038av C1985 I bought it in 1996 and it has been my favourite tool till it siezed*

Wouldn't pull on the rope and I took off the top and the muffler and a piece had broken off the piston. I've got it moving again but need a new piston ,pot etc. What is the size of the piston 48,50,or52mm. And where is the best place to get it ? E bay? love some advice thanks


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## Roanoker494 (Apr 12, 2011)

chrisjoyce said:


> Wouldn't pull on the rope and I took off the top and the muffler and a piece had broken off the piston. I've got it moving again but need a new piston ,pot etc. What is the size of the piston 48,50,or52mm. And where is the best place to get it ? E bay? love some advice thanks


 
If you saw is a standard 038AV it will have a 48mm bore, but the 52mm would be a direct bolt-on replacement. Ebay is a good place to buy parts but I would suggest buying from someone with a lot of positive feedback involving the sale of chainsaw parts. Site sponsor Baileys also has a nice selection of oem and aftermarket parts available.


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## chrisjoyce (Apr 12, 2011)

So the 52mm would bolt on ok but give me a few more cc's?


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## Roanoker494 (Apr 12, 2011)

chrisjoyce said:


> So the 52mm would bolt on ok but give me a few more cc's?


 
I am under the impression that the 52mm was for the magnum version and it had a different cylinder bolt pattern, but I do not have any experience with the 038 to base the info off of. The 52mm kits at Baileys actually notes it will not work on a 038AV or a 038 Super because of this reason.


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## chrisjoyce (Apr 12, 2011)

I guess measure the old one and replace like for like for safety? there was never a shortage of power anyway.


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## bcorradi (Apr 12, 2011)

Yes you can bolt an 038 super (50mm) directly on to your 038 AV (48mm) without any modifications. You can slightly elongate the cylinder holes to get an 038 magnum (52mm) to bolt on. Mad Professor on AS has done this conversion and could tell you more specific details involved.


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## steve-- (Nov 17, 2011)

Husky nut said:


> Another small word of advice...DON'T use starting fluid...drop alittle mixed gas in the carb


There's nothing at all wrong with using starting fluid. Modern starting fluids have lubricants in the mixture, and do not harm 2 cycle engines.

I wouldn't use starting fluid in place of gas (wouldn't run a tank of starting fluid through it), but using starting fluid to get an engine to fire doesn't hurt a damn thing.


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## steve-- (Nov 17, 2011)

Lakeside53 said:


> If there is no fuel filter, you definitely have a carb problem.... Don't use starting fluid - you'll cook the piston/cylinder/ whatever.. Use mix.
> 
> It could also be impulse line, crank case seals, boot, etc.. but I'd bet on the carb... put a stihl fuel filter back on the hose after you clean out the carb and rebuild it.
> 
> ...


There's nothing at all wrong with using starting fluid. Modern starting fluids have lubricants in the mixture, and do not harm 2 cycle engines.

I wouldn't use starting fluid in place of gas (wouldn't run a tank of starting fluid through it), but using starting fluid to get an engine to fire doesn't hurt a damn thing.


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## MiracleRepair (Nov 17, 2011)

steve-- said:


> There's nothing at all wrong with using starting fluid. Modern starting fluids have lubricants in the mixture, and do not harm 2 cycle engines.
> 
> I wouldn't use starting fluid in place of gas (wouldn't run a tank of starting fluid through it), but using starting fluid to get an engine to fire doesn't hurt a damn thing.



Not nearly enough lubricants in starting fluid to keep up with high reving two strokes.

How about some new guy, new/old saw rep for the op.


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## steve-- (Nov 19, 2011)

MiracleRepair said:


> Not nearly enough lubricants in starting fluid to keep up with high reving two strokes.
> 
> How about some new guy, new/old saw rep for the op.


I'd agree with you if this discussion was regarding the use of starting fluid as a fuel for "operating" a saw, but we're not talking about operating a saw, we're simply talking about getting one to fire, which again... Doesn't hurt a damn thing.

It's funny how some people's minds think so generically/simplistically, and apply certain principles so broadly, without really considering how one circumstance may be uniquely different from another. Just in case you either didn't read what the op typed, or else perhaps didn't understand the nature of his remarks, he wasn't using starting fluid in place of a gas/oil mix. He wasn't cutting firewood, supplying fuel to the saw via spraying starting fluid through the throat of the carb, he was simply trying to get the say to fire.

It's "Starting" fluid, not "Running/Operating" fluid. And yes... It does have a sufficient amount of lubricant in it for a high reving 2 stroke as long as it's being used in the manner that it was intended to be used.

When participating in a discussion with someone it's important to keep things in their proper context.


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## MiracleRepair (Nov 19, 2011)

I have seen way too many saws with toasted pistons from trying to start them with starting fluid. You really should keep your fantasies to yourself before you cost someone money.

Oh, I'm a self employed small engine mechanic, what do you do?


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## DSS (Nov 19, 2011)

So this guy knows more about saws than Lakeside. Where's he been all these years when we needed a genius??:msp_ohmy:


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## steve-- (Nov 19, 2011)

MiracleRepair said:


> I have seen way too many saws with toasted pistons from trying to start them with starting fluid. You really should keep your fantasies to yourself before you cost someone money.
> 
> Oh, I'm a self employed small engine mechanic, what do you do?


By what methodology did you determine that these pistons were toasted specifically resulting from the use of starting fluid? I suppose you know what their precise condition was prior to the use of starting fluid huh? (I'm sure you'll come up with some obviously foolish reply). The likely answer to this is that you have absolutely no idea as to the condition of the pistion prior to the use of starting fluid, and are just assuming that starting fluid was the culprit. If starting fluid was the cause of any damage to the pistons in question here it was certainly due to someone using it in extreeeeeemely excessive amounts, and for prolonged periods of time, far beyond it's intended use.

Judging by your response you're obviously one of those people who are not perceptive at all, and who has an extremely limited ability to evaluate and comprehend sutuations and circumstances. You seem to be (I suppose it's possible that I could be wrong) the type of person who lacks the ability to discover things on their own, who takes an extremely simplistic approach to everything, and who is almost entirely dependent on the instruction of others.

You say you're a self employed small engines mechanic (which blows me away based on your naivety regarding this particular subject)... I myself do not work on small engines for a living, however, I have been an automotive mechanic for nearly 20 years, and have been building high performance, high dollar racecar engines, chassis', rearends, transmissions etc. etc. for over 10. And again, although I am not self employed, and do not work on small engines for a living, I am in fact a long time certified small engines mechanic (as I intended to go that route before I got into the automotive industry), and for the past 20 years, for hobby purposes and for friends and family, have built several 2 stroke powered hydroplanes, dirt bikes (as I am a rider), and hot saws for a cousin of mine who competes in timber carnivals, and have used starting fluid on all these types of engines countless times, and there has never been any signs of piston damage to any of them after tearing them down (with the exception of one of my buddy's boat engines that got some sand put in it by one of his neighbor's kids). I also know and have met countless others over the years who use starting fluid regularly on their 2 stroke engines, and none of them have any more problems with their equipment than anyone else.


Also, none of the sources cited in that wiki article make any mention whatsoever about the absence of lubricant in starting fluids. That was obviously just the false personal opinion of the author of that wiki. In fact, if you go now and directly check the sited sources and external links for that article the information you will find will be exactly contrary to the claim you made. Modern starting fluids DO have lubricants in the mixture (maybe starting fluids from 30 or 40 years ago did not). Just read the containers... Most of them state that they contain lubricants right on the label, and even the ones that don't display it on the label still contain lubricants (and you can go right to the manufacturers websites to find this out).

If some dumb ass uses excessive amounts of starting fluid for prolonged periods of time, of course that could lead to undesired results, but starting fluid ABSOLUTELY *WILL NOT!* damage a 2 cycle engine if used properly. The fact that you aren't aware of that should seriously give people second thoughts about using you as a mechanic. As I alluded to previously, it's obvious that you're very limited in your ability to process information, and that your incapable of differentiating between extreme and moderate circumstances.

I suppose it's possible that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, without giving any real consideration to what you're actually saying, but if you truly believe that starting fluid, used properly, will damage a 2 cycle engine you've got some serious issues, even as an average enthusiast, and especially as a supposed small engines mechanic.


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## DSS (Nov 19, 2011)

steve-- said:


> By what methodology did you determine that these pistons were toasted specifically resulting from the use of starting fluid? I suppose you know what their precise condition was prior to the use of starting fluid huh? (I'm sure you'll come up with some obviously foolish reply). The likely answer to this is that you have absolutely no idea as to the condition of the pistion prior to the use of starting fluid, and are just assuming that starting fluid was the culprit. If starting fluid was the cause of any damage to the pistons in question here it was certainly due to someone using it in extreeeeeemely excessive amounts, and for prolonged periods of time, far beyond it's intended use.
> 
> Judging by your response you're obviously one of those people who are not perceptive at all, and who has an extremely limited ability to evaluate and comprehend sutuations and circumstances. You seem to be (I suppose it's possible that I could be wrong) the type of person who lacks the ability to discover things on their own, who takes an extremely simplistic approach to everything, and who is almost entirely dependent on the instruction of others.
> 
> ...



Perhaps someone like yourself who is obviously much more intelligent than the rest of us would care to explain why you would use starting fluid on a two stroke engine, instead of the proper 
mixture?

And use it 'countless times'? Please elighten us with your superior intellect and sparkling personality.


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## MiracleRepair (Nov 19, 2011)

steve-- said:


> By what methodology did you determine that these pistons were toasted specifically resulting from the use of starting fluid? I suppose you know what their precise condition was prior to the use of starting fluid huh? (I'm sure you'll come up with some obviously foolish reply). The likely answer to this is that you have absolutely no idea as to the condition of the pistion prior to the use of starting fluid, and are just assuming that starting fluid was the culprit. If starting fluid was the cause of any damage to the pistons in question here it was certainly due to someone using it in extreeeeeemely excessive amounts, and for prolonged periods of time, far beyond it's intended use.
> 
> Judging by your response you're obviously one of those people who are not perceptive at all, and who has an extremely limited ability to evaluate and comprehend sutuations and circumstances. You seem to be (I suppose it's possible that I could be wrong) the type of person who lacks the ability to discover things on their own, who takes an extremely simplistic approach to everything, and who is almost entirely dependent on the instruction of others.
> 
> ...



To make it simple enough for you to understand. Yes, I have seen people take an almost new saw, run it out of gas, refill it, then give it a large shot of ether to make it start faster. Most chainsaws these days rev between 10-13.5 thousand rpms, it takes very little time at that speed to do damage. 

It seems to me that any engine "builder" who has to rely on starting fluid, is doing something wrong, or isn't very good at what he does. Just because you need it to get your stuff running doesn't mean it is correct. If you have to use starting fluid on an engine, it means something isn't right with that engine. A true mechanic fixes that problem instead of choosing the lazy way.

Why don't you spray a shot of starting fluid on a metal surface and tell us how long it stays liquid.


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