# Learning to climb and having trouble.



## Paul Brown (Jun 24, 2014)

Hey, I'm just starting out on my tree climbing and I have this problem where I'm climbing up about 30-40ft. Before I reach the first limb. I freeze up and get really nervous for some reason. I've been reading on here for a while and I known a lot of you say "either you got it or you don't" I hope I got it because I would really like to make a career out of it. It's not im scared of the heights it's just when I go to cross the limb things start to run in my mind like my gear is going to let me down or my spikes are going to kick out. I'm not sure what it feels like to kick out because it hasn't happened but the thought of it scares the **** out of me.. The only time I really feel safe is when I'm tied in to a higher limb, and sometimes it's hard to do with my throw bag from the ground. Any suggestions on getting past that feeling, if you don't mind to swallow your pride is there anyone when they first started this work who had the same feelings, and how you got past it.by the way the tree I'm trying to build my confidence is a gum tree that's about 100ft tall that is planned for removal. 

Thank you for your time and help!


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## juttree (Jun 24, 2014)

I never met anyone who wasn't like a scared kitten the first time they tried climbing to any heights, it does get easier though. You'll learn to trust your gear the more you use it.
If your having a hard time reaching a high crotch, get yourself a big shot.
Good luck and keep trying, if you want it bad enough you'll get it.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2014)

No, I'm not going to say either you have it or you don't. But I will ask you a few questions. Did you take driver's ed? Did you go to school? Everything else in your life you have been instructed in. But strapping a chainsaw to your ass and climbing 40 or 100, or even 10 feet in the air, how hard can that be, right? Yes you're freaking out, because you're 40' in th air with no training. You can't learn to drive on the internet, and guess what, you can't learn to climb hereb either. What you don't know will kill you, and you aren't even asking the right questions.


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## woodchuck357 (Jun 24, 2014)

I don't remember climbing my first tree or climbing my first rock, I have always climbed. I do remember the first time I climbed with equipment, and I still have those same feelings some times. Time spent with various climbing accessories will give you more confidence, but I hope that, like me, you will never be totally at ease trusting your life and limb to supports be they man made or natural.
You didn't say how much training you have had, but I teach spur climbing with a belay and have people practice spurs kick out several times, both strapped in and just hanging on. I climbed many trees when I was younger with just hands and feet that had no limbs for 20 feet or more and thought nothing of it. I weigh much more these days and am not nearly as strong so if I didn't rely on ropes, straps and all the other stuff I would have to stay on the ground!


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## juttree (Jun 24, 2014)

Climbing trees and working in trees are two totally different things. If your just practicing climbing the tree which is what it sounds like to me (its planned for removal so your trying spikes on it), I say go for it. If you're planning on doing the work, then I totally agree with TheJollyLogger, you need training.


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## Paul Brown (Jun 24, 2014)

Well the training is coming from my pops, he's been climbing for around 30 years. But he's old school, so it's either you get your ass up there or stay on the ground and run the rope.. I been watching him and hes been telling why he does this and that my wole life, but like I said when it comes to asking him about being nervous, I get, come down, you don't have any business up there. So, I guess I'm just gonna have to suck it up and just do it! @woodchuck357 can you tell my how you go about practicing kicking out? Thanks again


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 24, 2014)

I had zero training when I started. My first time, the fat foreman told me to "Just climb up there with this rope and tie it in so we can pull this pine over." It wasn't a huge pine - maybe 40'. All excited, I slapped on spurs (no saddle) and free climbed up, tied the rope, and climbed down. About halfway down I buried the spur in my calf.

Do you have an experienced climber that will mentor you? And if not, are you willing to purchase training DVDs? I suggest Jerry Beranek's "Working Climber" series. The 80 bucks you spend will be well worth it and it just might save your life.

Good luck, brother! Climb safe!


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## woodchuck357 (Jun 24, 2014)

The easiest way to get spurs to kick out is just to climb while driving the spikes less and less until they don't hold. Since you are climbing the same tree over and over, you should have no problem finding a place that spurs will slip out. Knees tight to the tree will let the gaffs dig in less. Have your belay person keep the rope with a little slack so you will actually get the feel without dropping far. When I was first climbing with spikes I asked the guy training me what would happen if both spurs came out at the same time. His response was "don't worry you will hang on" and I did! At that time we were mostly climbing with no ropes and without the strap around the tree until we got to working height.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 24, 2014)

ALWAYS use your lanyard. When a limb blocks your ascent, toss your climb line to the next (even better, as high a limb as you can reach) limb and tie in before repositioning your lanyard. You will NEVER fall if you do this.

*ALWAYS USE YOUR LANYARD*


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## Zale (Jun 24, 2014)

Nerves are park of the game. If you are just starting out, its to be expected. Practice makes perfect. As far as how to deal with the nervousness? Heavy consumption of drugs and alcohol.


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## T. Collins (Jul 6, 2014)

I feel like the range you are talking about is where you will start to feel the movement in the tree from wind. Your body takes a while to get used to being on something that's moving around like that, it will make you nervous and unstable feeling. If you have been in a tree for a long time on a windy day, you still feel the swaying for a while even after you are on the ground! Climb up to where you are nervous, and stay there for a bit, drop down 5 feet, move around there for a bit, climb up 10 feet, etc... Just give your mind and body some time to get on the same program-


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## Peter.s (Jul 8, 2014)

climb with 2 lanyards - only safe way to get above a limb without being tied in.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 8, 2014)

That sounds good, but it's much easier to use your climbline.


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## Peter.s (Jul 8, 2014)

its not always easy to get it up there and when your dealing with time obsessed people its faster to toss another lanyard around and keep on climbing.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 8, 2014)

Your climbline IS a "lanyard."


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2014)

peter.s said:


> climb with 2 lanyards - only safe way to get above a limb without being tied in.


Really, It's the ONLY safe way?


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## EcoTreeCo (Jul 10, 2014)

Sometimes you just have to take a breath and calm down. Having your dad barking at you can't help much. If you're just nervous, that will mostly fade. You'll always have those moments where something spooks you, it's what keeps us constantly relying on the safety options we typically have at our disposal. 
"Old school" has its merits and it's drawbacks. It's your life and your climb. Sucks to have the expectations of a production climber when you're just getting started. Been there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TreeAce (Jul 13, 2014)

Peter.s said:


> climb with 2 lanyards - only safe way to get above a limb without being tied in.


If you decide to use this method, be sure and use lanyards with completely different connectors. Hooks, carabiners that all look the same can get confusing.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 13, 2014)

Meh...


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## Chuck D (Jul 18, 2014)

I'm sure you will be alright. you got a good hearty desire to do it and I think that will overcome any obstacles in your way!
What I have done is use your lanyard or flip line and climb up to the first crotch and then take your safety line and throw it over that crotch and bring it down and clip into your belt.
Then unhook your lanyard and put it over the crotch also then you can unhook your safety line and climb some more to the next crotch and then you can throw it high up over a crotch maybe four or 5 feet above your head if there is one with your safety line


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## MartyMonkey (Jul 18, 2014)

Paul Brown said:


> Hey, I'm just starting out on my tree climbing and I have this problem where I'm climbing up about 30-40ft. Before I reach the first limb. I freeze up and get really nervous for some reason.[...].



Newish to climbing too, I faced and regularly am facing these same things (the terror, not Dad). 

I found it really useful both for my technical knowledge, my vision of future steps, and my nerves to have slow conversations with myself. I'm fortunately not needing to be productive, so I can spend all the time in the world getting it right (and that's important). What exactly do I *want* to happen, what could go wrong, what's another way of doing it... . What is it that you're really freezing about? That you'll plummet to your death? That you'll swing free of the tree and be stuck there, or the like? (I'm assuming you're roped in, not just climbing on spikes and flipline, right?) If so respect your Keep-Me-Alive signal and either reason thru that it won't happen, that it's not even close to the end of the world, or figure out what to do to make it not happen. 

And climb a bunch. Go up to the limb and think about it some and come down for the day or until you get the right suchNsuch for the move you need to make. Up and Down. Comfort with the basics and a bit of muscle tone in those recently discovered muscles helps tremendously. You'll be able to perform that crotch pass fresh instead of already spent. 

Check every component, position and state, over and over. If you go thru the litany of every single thing that keeps you alive, you'll have convinced yourself anew that you're safe trusting it. Harness? End biner? Rope? Tie In Point? Friction knot and biner? Go back to basics. If you discover today that you're 10' up and didn't check your rig yet, have a conversation with yourself and figure out how that's never going to happen again.

In near hindsight, I see a lot of my early climbs up the same tree were a WHOLE lot more difficult and angstful because I didn't see obvious simple things, like that I could scootch around the other side of the tree to reach the other end of a 2nd lanyard (dooh). 

2nd lanyard--Definitely have one. I heard from reading someone around here that a *LONG* 2nd lanyard is a very nice thing to have; they're right! 

Practice kicking out??! How about don't and say you did?

The high stress approach of your Dad doesn't seem to be right. Maybe practice with another mentor?


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## Chuck D (Jul 18, 2014)

My wife told me before I buy any more equipment she would like to see me climb a big tree in the backyard. So I spiked up the tree with my lanyard and safe line
And got to the first crotch about 30 feet up only to realize it was about 5 feet across the trunk up there still!
I tide my safety line in over the crotch and repelled down!


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## VA-Sawyer (Jul 19, 2014)

Hope you don't plan on keeping that yard tree for long. Spiking is bad for trees. You should only spike trees that are being removed.


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## sac-climber (Jul 19, 2014)

Once you get past 25ft or so your life is either going to end or significantly change if you take a tumble. So, you might as well keep going higher! That's my logic at least.


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 19, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Hope you don't plan on keeping that yard tree for long. Spiking is bad for trees. You should only spike trees that are being removed.



While spiking a tree gives lots of opportunity for fungal infection and long term damage to the tree, let us not overstate the damage and timeframe the damage affects the tree. Spiking the tree does not mean it will die in the next 6 months. It will take several years before the effects of spiking begins to cause significant damage to the tree. 

Younger, vigourous trees, can overcome spiking through CODIT. I'm not condoning the practice, rather putting its effects into perspective.


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## kator (Jul 24, 2014)

I don't know if you still need any advice.
I am a newbie too, so the pain of learning is very fresh.
I had a big fear of spiking-out too. To overcome it I double wrapped the tree just couple feet of the ground and purposely gaffed-out both legs at once without holding the lanyard. I slammed against the tree with my chest. It was not a pleasant epxerience, but gave me some confidence that is not terrible. For a while I was climbing up with a double wrapped rope. Today I developed enough muscle tone to feel more comfortable. I ocassionaly gaff-out with one leg, and it does not feel bad at all.
As far as the height you just need to leave the comfort zone and go up just couple feet more. Don't force yourself too much, though. I bit of stress is OK, but a big discomfort impairs judgement and leads to errors. Sometimes just try to do it another day.
I try to cut only few limbs when going up. The tree swings less, the lanyard will not slide down, and the branches below ease the fear of height.


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## kator (Jul 24, 2014)

> You can't learn to drive on the internet, and guess what, you can't learn to climb hereb either. What you don't know will kill you, and you aren't even asking the right questions.


...so what questions should be asked?
Well, I learn from the internet and Jerry Beranek's DVDs. I don't say it is the best way of doing. I understand benefits of a good instructor.
The Tree Climbers International charges about 12 hundred bucks for 5 day spikeless climbing course. You need yet cover the hotel.
If you have a budget for it that is fine. It is also better to go through a costly health exam every year, but we usually don't buy the most expensive health coverage either. Taking chances here and there is just a part of life.
The 5 day training is still a very begining of learning. Like with a car driving you still are nervous and sweating after the course.
I believe having a good mentor is hundred times better than a few days with an instructor if you can't have both.
You, experienced guys, have great advice for us. It is our part to appreciate it and use it responsibly.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Jul 25, 2014)

practice that throwball.
of course it's hard to get your throwball over a limb sometimes.
the throwball is a cursed thing.. it's why i sacrifice to the throwball gods.
practice practice.
it's a massive pain in the rear but having a climbline set and tested from the ground always makes me feel much better.
your pop is old school so he'll probably think you're just goofing off but ignore that.
getting good with a throwball is important.

how much does your throwball weigh?

a 10oz will get your line up high but can let you down by not coming down..
a 12oz will be a good overall for 50' or so..


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Jul 25, 2014)

this gentleman helped me get started.
just the general ideas..
http://www.climbingarborist.com/throwball.html


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## kator (Jul 25, 2014)

I use a sling shot for very high crotches. I shoot a fishing line with a lead weight. If I miss I wind the line back on the spool. Once it is on the desired place I attache the throw line. 
In a long run the BigShot or a good crossbow is a way to go.
A helmet, gloves and eye/face protection is a must with this game.


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## Goose IBEW (Jul 25, 2014)

Practice with the throwline and setting your climbing line. You can wrap your lanyard around the tree, WITHOUT your spikes, put your feet against the tree and lean back on the lanyard and set yourself into your climbing line. Use the hip thrust method and advance your lanyard and climbing line accordingly to keep your comfort where it may be. Set into your climbing line and unclip your lanyard to progress past limbs. I highly recommend becoming very comfortable with this method before spikes come into play. Good luck and post your progress.


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## kator (Jul 26, 2014)

I started with spikes right away and now I find myself to much depending on them. 
I think it delays learning how to balance in a tree and developing strong arms.
To climb trees one has to be well fit. I found this to be a great gym.


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## Goose IBEW (Jul 26, 2014)

Practice with the throwline and setting your climbing line. You can wrap your lanyard around the tree, WITHOUT your spikes, put your feet against the tree and lean back on the lanyard and set yourself into your climbing line. Use the hip thrust method and advance your lanyard and climbing line accordingly to keep your comfort where it may be. Set into your climbing line and unclip your lanyard to progress past limbs. I highly recommend becoming very comfortable with this method before spikes come into play. Good luck and post your progress.


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## Goose IBEW (Jul 26, 2014)

That's exactly what I am referring to. Bringing out the spikes on day one is too much. You need to learn rope climbing first, before you bring a chainsaw up even. Putting too much on the table at once is bad in my opinion. Upper body strength is important but you should not have to rely on your biceps to lift and hold your body as you climb, this is why I stated hip thrusting in my previous reply.


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## Goose IBEW (Jul 26, 2014)

I have a double post here that I can not erase. Whoops! Damn technology!


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## freakshow (Jul 27, 2014)

I am a line Clearence Foreman journeyman(aka apprentice trainer). our company policy states that we must ladder up ..climb to the top of the ladder ...use a double Length pruner(18') to set our first tie in. climb to that tie in ..lanyard in and start the process over again.or when you reach your first tie in pull up your tail and tie in again as high as your pruner reachs with your tail therefore you are always tied in....the experience Of spiking trees always comes after the experience of being in a tree!!!!Safely!!!! PS choose a dominant strong crotch not a branch,,


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 27, 2014)

Wow!


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## kator (Jul 28, 2014)

> choose a dominant strong crotch not a branch


This raises a big question for us, newbies. How do you judge safety of the chosen crotch? What would be thikness of the fork (be it a an oak or a maple)? 
It is not a big deal if you spike out and the lanyard or the safety line will hold you. However, if you ascend on a climbing rope and the anchor crotch fails it almost certainly will end tragically.


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## kator (Jul 28, 2014)

Here is my recent anchoring crotch. In order to avoid cutting above my head I climbed above the safety line and attached two lanyards (one to each half of the fork). The two limbs were 5" thick each. For all the canopy work I used only a hand saw.
Could you guys elaborate if it was safe and what should be done if it was dangerous?
P.S. I feel more intimidated by watching these pictures than when I was up there.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 28, 2014)

From what I can see, it looks just fine.


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 29, 2014)

freakshow said:


> I am a line Clearence Foreman journeyman(aka apprentice trainer). our company policy states that we must ladder up ..climb to the top of the ladder ...use a double Length pruner(18') to set our first tie in. climb to that tie in ..lanyard in and start the process over again.or when you reach your first tie in pull up your tail and tie in again as high as your pruner reachs with your tail therefore you are always tied in....the experience Of spiking trees always comes after the experience of being in a tree!!!!Safely!!!! PS choose a dominant strong crotch not a branch,,



If your line goes around the stem and uses the branch as a stop, then your branch can be pretty small down to 1.5" or even less as you get confident with species. The key is going around the stem. If the branch fails, the rope will ride down the stem until it hits the next branch. If you put your line around the branch and it fails, you will go for a spill. Having said that, you need to hang off of branches of various sizes and species to learn how small and how far away from the stem you can go. The closer your line is to the stem(junction), the small the branch can be. Be tied in twice and do some experiments low and slow.


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## freakshow (Jul 29, 2014)

Totally agree. Sounded like he was leaving the ground for one the first times....teach the basics and go from there but totally agree


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## kator (Jul 29, 2014)

> If your line goes around the stem and uses the branch as a stop, then your branch can be pretty small down to 1.5"


This is more applicable for the trees with a straight stem like spruces or pines which have a dominant trunk from bottom to the top. With many deciduous trees the canopy is wide spread with several small crotches often off the center. You want then to choose a highest possible crotch (stem) to move around, but then you scratch your head thinking how to judge if it is strong enough.


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