# Staying Safe.



## TreeSlugger (Feb 10, 2006)

Hey all, I'm glad to find such an informative place. Ive been working for a local company for about 2 years. And in that time ive done bucket truck work, alot of climbing, and all the rest of the goodies that go along with trimming and removal. 90% of our work is contracted through the hydro, which makes me more safety concious. 
Now with that out of the way, i wanted to ask you folks, what steps do you all take to make sure that you stay safe up there. Because we have old equipment, using ropes with chainsaw nicks in them, one lanyard/buck strap per climber, no carabiners, 3 usable ropes for climbing (one 60ft, one 45ft with knots, the other 150ft), spurs that wont be repaired, cracked leather and the two sections that support it to your shin one off the rivet and digs into your leg. its sad, and I'm extremely frustrated. Im laid off now, seasonal work, I love it for alot of reasons. But when things are brought up at meetings i get looked at like Ive got 3 heads. And what makes it worse, is we also do alot of hydro work, old/new crap that works half the time.
What do you all figure with your experience? Am I over reacting?


----------



## PUclimber (Feb 10, 2006)

You have every right to be frustrated with the condition of the equipment at you're company. If this was the working conditions at a place that I was at I would relocate or purchase my own gear. Ropes, lanyards, etc. are things that you're trusting your life to while up in the tree. I know of at least one company like this here that doesn't use proper equipment for the job and has equipment that is less than safe. I have not been doing tree work all that long but from classes and my little experience and listening to all the veterans here it's plain to see that something needs to be done about the equipment situation. If not we're gonna be reading about you in the awakenings section.


----------



## moss (Feb 10, 2006)

Definitely not overreacting. Buy your own 150 ft. rope and don't let anyone else use it. Take it home with you or lock it up every night. It's not selfish, it's your life. You can make a good lanyard with some basic material. You want to be climbing on ropes and biners that only you use. Otherwise you have no idea what someone else has done to them.

Maybe it will shame your supervisor into doing something about it.
-moss


----------



## dakota (Feb 10, 2006)

Do not for a minute think that you are overreacting. Safety should be paramount in this profession. Yesterday was my last day with a company that I've only been with for four months and one the biggest frustrations that I had there was with the senior foreman whose favorite line was, "I'm old school." This was his answer whenever I questioned him about his working style.

His own lack of safe working practices were one thing, but he did all he could to undermine the progress that I was making regarding training and safety. It drove me nuts and I sincerly hope that the trainee that I was working with does not get hurt as a result of "old school stupidity." I had some pretty harsh words and a stern warning for him before I left the site and strangely enough the "tough-guy, senior foremen" walked away withou a word during my tyrade. 

You cannot be forced to work unsafe.


----------



## TreeSlugger (Feb 10, 2006)

You guys are 100% right, and thanks for the advice! 


Thanks, 

Ben


----------



## clearance (Feb 10, 2006)

What about the hydro, you are working on thier system, are your pole pruners and bucket truck dielectrically tested? In B.C. the hydro inspects private contractors all the time, if you eqip. isn't great you will be sent home. You cannot use anything that is not dielectrically tested that should be at all. You have worked for two years this is not arborist 101.


----------



## legendrider (Feb 10, 2006)

*Similar Thought*

Its amazing because i came home frustrated today yet again. so far I have worked for 3 companies and I cant believe the lack of new techniques and saftey precautious used in the interest of saving time. i am still in the learning phaze as well i started older in this field and I am not about to start taking chances. yes i climb slower then more experienced climbers but my techniques are sound and my end result is similar. the other day i watched my boss spike up a 80 norway spruce and didnt tie in once or use a saftey until he set his line at the top and i was told thats the way it should be done and i should learn to trust my hands. they prefer ladders over throw ball line sets. ill limb walk and swing out to another leader just as fast as the next fuy i dont know why i have to ascend without being tied in. and why spike all the way up a tree when you can set a line from the ground and climb with your system of choice and use the spikes as additional aid when doing removels. i find much faster to climb to the top with the rope then spiking up and having to keep flipping your line, lastly i use the schwabish with micro pulley any thoughts on that im not convinced on the VT Set up


----------



## clearance (Feb 10, 2006)

Legend, your post kind of mystifies me. Why would you climb a removal to the top first? Unless it was a multistem decid. tree, done that tied in high and swung around to get everthing, but a Norway Spruce? I climb from the bottom on conifers, strip it, big of a top as I can and then chunk it on the way back down. As far as freeclimbing, I used to do that constantly doing utility but now I use two steelcores all the time, my new boss wants it that way and like he says "if you freeclimb, sooner or later......"


----------



## legendrider (Feb 10, 2006)

*ill try to clarify*



clearance said:


> Legend, your post kind of mystifies me. Why would you climb a removal to the top first? Unless it was a multistem decid. tree, done that tied in high and swung around to get everthing, but a Norway Spruce? I climb from the bottom on conifers, strip it, big of a top as I can and then chunk it on the way back down. As far as freeclimbing, I used to do that constantly doing utility but now I use two steelcores all the time, my new boss wants it that way and like he says "if you freeclimb, sooner or later......"


 

this is what happens when type while upset sorry. yes i agree in stripping up connifers, however when working in areas where bombinb larger limbs wouldnt be benificial i have seen my boss climb up and set a lowering line, lower himself down and then start again limbing up the tree. i also have seen him do the process in reverse climb up flop the crown and then tie in and limb out the tree and throw chunks.. apparantly im just as mystified as you. and as deciduous trees i have done a few removals where i was told to climb to the top set my lowering lind then decscend and start limbing up, this process is to avoid large limbs and brush getting hung up. im stated these facts because this is how im being taught and most of which im being taught by 2 companies so far has been contrary to what i learned in classes such as arbormaster.


----------



## Jumper (Feb 14, 2006)

I would think the NB Dept of Labour would be a good place to start. I do understand where you are coming from as jobs are somewhat scarce in that part of the world, however that does not give your employer the right to place you in unsafe situations. This is called abuse in my book. Here in Ontario a worker has the right to refuse unsafe working conditions. I would suggest you start buying some of your own equipment and perhaps look for another company, one that cares a little more?? Think I would start off with my own rope! Maybe some of that rotten old equipment needs to be misplaced?? Not me that did it, but I know of one rotton old ladder that got run over one day after the climber I was with repeatedly was put on hold when he requested one that did not collapse when any weight was put on it. It was a hazard period and A. was to cheap to replace it. Or photographed and copies sent to the Labour Ministry for their input. I agree it is frustrating to work for a company that has sh*t for equipment, it can not do a lot for employee morale in the long run.Been there, done that....Good luck.


----------



## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2006)

*sounds like he's no school*



legendrider said:


> this is what happens when type while upset sorry. yes i agree in stripping up connifers, however when working in areas where bombinb larger limbs wouldnt be benificial i have seen my boss climb up and set a lowering line, lower himself down and then start again limbing up the tree. i also have seen him do the process in reverse climb up flop the crown and then tie in and limb out the tree and throw chunks.. apparantly im just as mystified as you. and as deciduous trees i have done a few removals where i was told to climb to the top set my lowering lind then decscend and start limbing up, this process is to avoid large limbs and brush getting hung up. im stated these facts because this is how im being taught and most of which im being taught by 2 companies so far has been contrary to what i learned in classes such as arbormaster.


set ur lowering line and climbing line with a throwball work your way up work smarter and safer not harder and stupider get another job and dump that no school company:jawdrop:


----------



## Climb020 (Dec 23, 2006)

Buy all of your own climbing gear first of all as well you might as well get some rigging too. Then make sure that equipement does not get used by people that you do not trust. Most companies that I know require the climber to have all there own stuff anyway. It is just easier and safer that way. Even when working for someone else I show up with my own saws. I know where my equipement has been and what abuse it has been put through as well I know all the load limits for it as well. You cannot expect someone to know this just from handing them a hank of rope off a truck. You know what happens why you have 5 monkey fighting over one banana.

WLL for myself and others that is not an option. Natural crotches make too much friction exspecially when with multi points and lifting limbs. As well I always use a double braid so need a block or pulley. And setting multiple static crotches would take more time then it would to just climb right up and set the slings up. As well the line from the static crotch would only get in the way for most of the rigging. And if you don't do it the static way you are only asking for trouble with a 4:1 system which will only cause problems.

Just climbing your way to your rigging point while cutting off everything you can that can be bombed. After setting your lines go ahead and get started where ever it may be. Sometimes you have to work higher to be able to work some of the lower limbs.


----------



## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2006)

*i rarely use any natral crotches*

i always rig down trees. 4 me roping down a tree is old school. not needing 2 rely on a crotch has made me a much more safer faster and efficient climber. i used 2 live in bordentown at the pride of nj vineyards winery we used to own that property. i went 2 columbus school and used 2 ride dirtbikes and atvs every day.maby we know some of the same people. im 26yrs old. how about u 020climber?pm me:rockn:


----------



## Climb020 (Dec 23, 2006)

Maybe this is just me but what you just said not doesn't agree with your previous post. How do you use your throwball to set your rigging lines without using a crotch? How can you rig without a crotch and it make you faster and safer? No wonder you have a red dot.


----------



## bulletbob (Dec 23, 2006)

*bad place*

I have been climbing for 15 years and worked for 5 or 6 companys and I can say this, Its all about the money and the management they practice. It seems only 10% of the annual budget gets spent on equipment if lucky at best. " MANDATORY"
(YOU MUST SET THE EXAMPLE TO OTHERS)
1st- go buy your own gear right know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mean go get a 338 husqvarna right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2nd- go get minimume150 high visible line Right now!!!!!!!!!!!
3rd- GET A PRO-HARNES / THAT FITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4th- GET A HELMET WITH THE MESH /AND EYE GEAR /AND EAR GEAR
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5th- GET CHAPS -AND WEAR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you work like a pro then you will be treated like one. you must take steps to protect your self,regardles of what others are doing.(when they start getting banged up or worse,they will take notes from you)there are videos /and you should paying attention to the way they do things as well,always use the right gear for the job,Always use a pulley (use the right one for the size and weight)keep your gear very dry and clean one last thing get in shape and produce better and faster work
ps KEEP YOUR SAWS AND GEAR CLEAN!!!!!!!!:deadhorse:


----------



## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2006)

Climb020 said:


> Maybe this is just me but what you just said not doesn't agree with your previous post. How do you use your throwball to set your rigging lines without using a crotch? How can you rig without a crotch and it make you faster and safer? No wonder you have a red dot.


just giving him advice. as 4 me i do lots of differnt things depending on the job. i dont need a crotch 2 rig down trees because of modern tools. im not looking 2 argue with u. i have a red dot because of some uninformed knowitall who is only old school or no school. if u already know everything than u will never learn anything. opinions are like buttholes every 1 has one


----------



## bulletbob (Dec 23, 2006)

climb020 is on the money (take note)we must help eveyone understand (this is a brother hood) people die because they were not trained right or not paying attention or worse they know to much and dont care. I seen all those reasons and learned (sometimes the hard way)


----------



## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2006)

*speed comes with knowlage*



Climb020 said:


> Maybe this is just me but what you just said not doesn't agree with your previous post. How do you use your throwball to set your rigging lines without using a crotch? How can you rig without a crotch and it make you faster and safer? No wonder you have a red dot.


one day u will learn. be safe climb high and wear ppe


----------



## coydog (Dec 23, 2006)

I worked under an experienced foreman who freeclimbed to the top of firs etc to set his lifeline/rigging, he once told me if you have to always be tied in what kind of a climber are you anyway? he fell and broke his back a year later, he was tied in but it was a crappy tie in that tore out. I used to be a freeclimbing fool as a kid, climbing to the top of big trees was my hobby, but now I'm a professional and I climb in order to support my family. I have a safety protocol that I follow which includes: I don't climb on questionable equipment, I tie in twice when I fire up the saw, and I stay tied in at all times(to a tie in that I can inspect!), among others, these may have slowed me down as a newer climber, but I'll put my production skills against anybody now, If an employer doesn't like it, I'll walk, there's plenty of others who would be happy to have me. The protocol is muscle memory as much as anything now, so it doesn't slow me down, only achieved through practice. There's always someone who can get the job done faster, the bottom line is can you get the job done consistently, day after day, year after year, without getting hurt.


----------



## JohN Dee (Dec 23, 2006)

coydog said:


> I worked under an experienced foreman who freeclimbed to the top of firs etc to set his lifeline/rigging, he once told me if you have to always be tied in what kind of a climber are you anyway? he fell and broke his back a year later, he was tied in but it was a crappy tie in that tore out. I used to be a freeclimbing fool as a kid, climbing to the top of big trees was my hobby, but now I'm a professional and I climb in order to support my family. I have a safety protocol that I follow which includes: I don't climb on questionable equipment, I tie in twice when I fire up the saw, and I stay tied in at all times(to a tie in that I can inspect!), among others, these may have slowed me down as a newer climber, but I'll put my production skills against anybody now, If an employer doesn't like it, I'll walk, there's plenty of others who would be happy to have me. The protocol is muscle memory as much as anything now, so it doesn't slow me down, only achieved through practice. There's always someone who can get the job done faster, the bottom line is can you get the job done consistently, day after day, year after year, without getting hurt.




Thats a great post mate, its about you - not them. Like someone's signature says: Climb High, Climb Safe is a great line to go by. If you don't feel safe then don't do it simple as that, if you wanna feel safe then get all your good gear together and start learning - That is the best way to feel safe and re-assure yourself in the tree.

WLL you got that red dot because you yourself are mis-informed. Why was this thread bumped back up anyway? It's like 8-9 months old the creator would be past this point in his life by now anyway.


----------



## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2006)

*prefecto great post*



coydog said:


> I worked under an experienced foreman who freeclimbed to the top of firs etc to set his lifeline/rigging, he once told me if you have to always be tied in what kind of a climber are you anyway? he fell and broke his back a year later, he was tied in but it was a crappy tie in that tore out. I used to be a freeclimbing fool as a kid, climbing to the top of big trees was my hobby, but now I'm a professional and I climb in order to support my family. I have a safety protocol that I follow which includes: I don't climb on questionable equipment, I tie in twice when I fire up the saw, and I stay tied in at all times(to a tie in that I can inspect!), among others, these may have slowed me down as a newer climber, but I'll put my production skills against anybody now, If an employer doesn't like it, I'll walk, there's plenty of others who would be happy to have me. The protocol is muscle memory as much as anything now, so it doesn't slow me down, only achieved through practice. There's always someone who can get the job done faster, the bottom line is can you get the job done consistently, day after day, year after year, without getting hurt.


      now that is quality


----------



## (WLL) (Dec 23, 2006)

*sorry johnd*



JohN Dee said:


> Thats a great post mate, its about you - not them. Like someone's signature says: Climb High, Climb Safe is a great line to go by. If you don't feel safe then don't do it simple as that, if you wanna feel safe then get all your good gear together and start learning - That is the best way to feel safe and re-assure yourself in the tree.
> 
> WLL you got that red dot because you yourself are mis-informed. Why was this thread bumped back up anyway? It's like 8-9 months old the creator would be past this point in his life by now anyway.


u are right. that pulley i got is cmi 20000mbs it came from wesspur was that dot from u i thought u gave me a grey one. what ever they r starting 2 pile up. hope i can learn from them thanx john


----------



## SRT-Tech (Dec 26, 2006)

dont ever climb on questionable gear. EVER! ropes that have nicks, or are badly abraded, fliplines that are hacked from the saw, NO NO NO! go to Baileys, drop $64 for a 120' Arborplex, 10 - 30 bucks for a couple of biners etc and like others have said, LOCK IT UP, and dont let ANYONE use it (unless its a tree climber emergency and they need a rope for rescue etc)


----------



## Lonnie (Jan 7, 2007)

You have the right not to use anything that is not safe......If u have a saw on the job that has a broken saw break on it and the boss tell u to use it U have the right not to.... I know telling them u will not use it will get ya fired but then u are still kicking at the end of the day not in a pine box.....If ya get fired then im sure some safety guy just hanging around some where hehehehe But buying and using your owen stuff is the way to go if u can go dat way........


----------



## Jumper (Jan 7, 2007)

Lonnie said:


> You have the right not to use anything that is not safe......If u have a saw on the job that has a broken saw break on it and the boss tell u to use it U have the right not to.... I know telling them u will not use it will get ya fired but then u are still kicking at the end of the day not in a pine box.....If ya get fired then im sure some safety guy just hanging around some where hehehehe But buying and using your owen stuff is the way to go if u can go dat way........



Here in Ontario you also have the "right to refuse", however you can not be fired for refusing unsafe work. The employer if unable to resolve the problem is mandated to call in the Labour Ministry, and believe you me those guys error on the side of caution every time. As an employer it would be far easier and likely cheaper to resolve a legit safety problem. 

I only ever refused once....the company owner's idiot son wanted me to jump into a dumpster and compact the contents. Knowing darn well it was full of huge shards of plate glass (I put them there) did not seem like too good an idea to me. I told him to go find someone with a front end loader and crush it that way so he jumped in himself to show me how to do it while I supervised.
(he did not get cut, but I did not offer that it was full of glass either). There is a good set of industrial accident safety ads on TV here now, basically stating very few "accidents" are accidents, but related to unsafe equipment or procedure.


----------



## SRT-Tech (Jan 7, 2007)

Well Said Jumper!


----------



## Lonnie (Jan 7, 2007)

Right on man.....


----------



## asiegler04 (Jan 24, 2007)

If anything is unsafe it would be working from a ladder. Talk about guts but hey thats what i do 40Ft ladder then climb the rest.


----------

