# Empress Splendor, fact or fiction?



## SmokinDodge

I read an article in Farmshow Magazine about a new variety of tree, the Empress Splendor. It sounds like a very profitable tree that I would be interested in, if all that they say is true. I'm from Missouri, they are going to have to "Show Me." Does any one have any experience/knowledge of this tree?

From : http://www.wonderearthpartners.com/info/farmshow.htm

"The "Empress Splendor" tree is said to shoot up 10 to 20 ft. in its first year of growth. In addition, it can be harvested for lumber every 6 7 to 10 years because, in ideal climates, the unique tree re-grows up to seven times after being cut down.

The "Empress Splendor" is the fastest growing hardwood tree in the world, growing four times faster than any other tree," she says, "When mature, they have roughly 24 to 36-in dia. trunks, and are 50 to 60 feet tall. Some diameters as wide as 48-in. have been reported.""

Thanks,

Neal


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## windthrown

*I will look into it...*

I never heard of it. Mertyl Creek is less than an hour south of me here. I will have to check it out. Though they seem REALLY (rediculously) expensive. If the tree grows that fast you should be able to propogate it easilly yourself. I will ask the Douglas County forest guys when I see them next week about this stuff. 

We buy top quality 2 year old bare root trees to plant here in quantity for more like 35 cents each, ie., from Brooks Tree Farm (www.brookstreefarm.com). 

Also I do not know what mills would buy this stuff. That is the other side of the equation. Just becasue you have hardwood does not mean that anyone will buy it and mill it. For example, I grow coastal redwood here, and it will easilly grow 10 ft a year. But no one mills it locally.


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## Ianab

It's an impressive tree growth wise. The timber is lightweight but durable and usefull, and valuable to the right market. But like a lot of things I think it's 'Over-hyped'.

If you are looking to plant timber trees and have the right land / climate and can manage the trees properly it may be a good option. But as far as 'get rich quick' goes, dont count on it.

Cheers

Ian


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## SmokinDodge

That would be great Windthrown!

First thing I'm concerned with is the growth rates and vigor of the trees for my area (Central MO). And naturally the second would be a market, but if it's a hardwood I would think twenty acres would run a firewood cutter to death. Usually if something is too good to be true.....................


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## windthrown

*Btw...*

Around here there are a lot of tree farms and forest tracts planted in experimental trees. A lot of them fail after being planted. For example, there is a cross between Monterey and Knobcone pine called KMX. It is one of the fastest growing pines in the world. Commonly planted around here 20 years ago, it grows great here for about 15 years and then stalls out for reasons that they have not quite figured out. There are a lot of stands down by Roseburg that are just sitting there as stagnant stands, maybe 20-30 ft high. Less than worthless, they have to be cut and removed to plant something else now. I lived in the Monterey area in California for 20 years where Monterey pines grow like weeds. There they are considered a trash tree and no one mills the stuff there. But globally, it is grown commercially and milled in a lot of places like Australia. But here? Nothing doing. We grow Ponderosa pines here, thank you. This area had a lot of Ponderosa pines before monoculture hit and they only planted Doug firs. They do really well here. 

Word of advice... beware of fast growing trees sold for high prices to make fast money.


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## SmokinDodge

Wow, double post at 3:21 a.m.! I think it is definately over hyped, I can remember now the LLama and Ostrich craze that went through about ten to fifteen years ago. I'm realatively sure someone on AS has first hand knowledge of these trees and give us the skinny.


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## Ianab

It's a hardwood, but not a dense one.

Like most wood, it will burn when it's dry, but you can't compare it to a heavy hardwood in firewood quality.

Ian


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## SmokinDodge

windthrown said:


> Word of advice... beware of fast growing trees sold for high prices to make fast money.




Definately, I've contacted them about buying five trees. If they are really interested in propogating the trees I will be able to buy, if not they are out for the quick buck. If they are doing good in ten years I'll fork out the cash, but not untill then.


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## windthrown

SmokinDodge said:


> Wow, double post at 3:21 a.m.! I think it is definately over hyped, I can remember now the LLama and Ostrich craze that went through about ten to fifteen years ago. I'm realatively sure someone on AS has first hand knowledge of these trees and give us the skinny.



Only 12:30 here... I usually crash about now. Too cold to work outside before 10am lately here. 

Yah... llamas. When I moved here my girlfriend and llamas and alpacas. She got them for free from some failed Ialpacas pyramid grower gone bust. As far as I can figure, free is too expensive with the price of hay these days. We took the llamas to auction and sold the alpacas as a herd to some people in southern Oregon last year. 

I am in touch with the Douglas Co. forester so I am sure I can get info on these 'wonder' trees. UC Davis would be another place to look for information on these trees. They do a lot of 'real' ag research there. As does OSU for that matter (Oregon State University) in Corvallis.


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## Ianab

> For example, there is a cross between Monterey and Knobcone pine called KMX. It is one of the fastest growing pines in the world. Commonly planted around here 20 years ago, it grows great here for about 15 years and then stalls out for reasons that they have not quite figured out.



The Monterey pines are 90% of NZ forestry. But for maximum return they are intensively managed. By 10 years they would have been lift pruned 3 times and probably thinned to waste twice. Only the best 1/3 of the planted trees remain. So the ten year old trees will be 30ft tall, no branches for 16 ft, and spaced so they have room to grow. A thickly planted stand can just stagnate as you are talking about.

I suspect the Paulownia would need similar management to maximise the return.

Ian


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## windthrown

*Some here do it right and they still stagnate*



Ianab said:


> The Monterey pines are 90% of NZ forestry. But for maximum return they are intensively managed. By 10 years they would have been lift pruned 3 times and probably thinned to waste twice. Only the best 1/3 of the planted trees remain. So the ten year old trees will be 30ft tall, no branches for 16 ft, and spaced so they have room to grow. A thickly planted stand can just stagnate as you are talking about.
> 
> I suspect the Paulownia would need similar management to maximise the return.
> 
> Ian



No, some plant and thin here as you do there in NZ, especially in these experimantal high intensity plantings. There is a huge tree farm at the back of our property here that does that type of machine planting stuff (about 160 acres). My forestry class went out and looked at some nicely thinned Doug firs. Then we stopped at a failed KMX plantation on the way back and looked around. They were well spaced about 15 ft apart and had good crowns on them. No bark beetles. They just do not do well here for whatever reason, north of the California border. The county forester says that no one has been able to get them to grow well after 20 years here. Even people that have gone to NZ and copied your methods here. BTW: the Monterey pines around Monterey are now all doing poorly due to bark beetles. Also becasue they are all clones... and planted in places like parking lots. Strange that they are a commercial tree in NZ... 

Not that standard Oregon growing practices are very good. Typical commercial planting and growing practices here will result in a $50 an acre loss. I see a lot of stagnant stands here that are in dire need of thinning (Doug fir mostly). I am a follower of George Fenn, a retired ex-defense contractor genious that grows trees on his 400 acre plot a few miles west of here. He has showed me his methods, and they are remarkable. He gets class I growth from class IV sites. His trees are 12 ft tall, planted at the same time as commercial trees planted next to his property that are only 4 ft high. He is the one that talked me into growing coastal redwoods here. I brought some clones up from California before the SOD ban went into effect. I have clones of some true giants many hundreds of years old in my collection. 

As a matter of fact, redwoods are great for multiple harvesting. Cut them down and you do not need to replant. They grow right back from the stump and roots like a maple will. They also grow really fast. Hey, I should sell them for what, $12 a plant????


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## SmokinDodge

windthrown said:


> . They also grow really fast. Hey, I should sell them for what, $12 a plant????



Maybe you could have a special priceing for AS members? .


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## Ianab

Yes.. it's strange how trees are so different in only a slightly different climate.

But it sounds like that MX cultivar is suited for a 15 year pulpwood rotation?

The Monterey pines grown here have been selectively bred for timber over the last 80 or so years and are very different to the original stock.

It's not that we cant grow other trees here, it's just the pines grow so fast and the whole processing industry is set up around them. When people do the maths it just works out best financially. Sure you can grow Eucalyptus, Tasmanian Blackwood, Doug fir, Nootka cypress, but it takes twice as long to harvest.

The native species are nice timber, but you are looking at 200-400 year maturity there. Some areas are being managed for timber, but it's small scale specialised stuff.

Cheers 

Ian


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## Thillmaine

*Empress Tree*

The empress tree, _Paulwonia tometosum_"Empress Splendor" is rare int he us, although apparently guys down in arizona have been marketing it like the new lombardy poplar. Dont know much about it, isnt hardy in the north, but we do have some that grow like perrenials, 18 ft in on eyear, huge leaves then die back to th eroots in the fall. Intresting to use in a landscape as perrenial, I only know of one other perrenial that gets that large, _Miscanthus sinensis 'Giganeaum' 12-14 feet and invasive_


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## windthrown

*Monterey Pines*



Ianab said:


> Yes.. it's strange how trees are so different in only a slightly different climate.
> 
> But it sounds like that MX cultivar is suited for a 15 year pulpwood rotation?
> 
> The Monterey pines grown here have been selectively bred for timber over the last 80 or so years and are very different to the original stock.
> 
> It's not that we cant grow other trees here, it's just the pines grow so fast and the whole processing industry is set up around them. When people do the maths it just works out best financially. Sure you can grow Eucalyptus, Tasmanian Blackwood, Doug fir, Nootka cypress, but it takes twice as long to harvest.
> 
> The native species are nice timber, but you are looking at 200-400 year maturity there. Some areas are being managed for timber, but it's small scale specialised stuff.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ian



Yah, Monterey pines in California are now threatened by your crosses from NZ and Australia. The crossed genetics from there are being re-introduced here and that is considered a threat to the wild populations. They are getting better at tree planting sources here of late though. Many firs and pines here are all available (in volume) based on the region where the seeds were collected. 

As for why MXs fail here, I think it is mainly becasue of the duration of freezing temperatures here this time of year. The taller they get the more extreme the temps. This year has had a lot of temps to 20 F at night and the high 20 F in the day. The Monterey, Knobcone and Bishop pine native stands do not spread into far northern and eastern California, Oregon or Nevada where the temps are more extreme. Monterey and similar California coastal areas have very mild climates, barely down to freezing on a few nights per year (though this year had major frost as far south as San Diego and the citrus crop is pretty much wiped out down there this year). 

They planted a lot of this MX stuff when pulp prices were high. Now pulp prices are low here, and have been for a while. In most cases it seems that the KMX plantations are being abandoned, or ripped up and replanted. Christmas tree farms here come and go for the same reason; quick money is not so quick after all. The trees have to be managed, sprayed, thinned, pruned, and as you say, intensively cared for. A lot of this stuff is also planted here for tax purposes; we plant here on this 105 acre parcel to avoid higher property taxes. They give us a tax break when planting trees on land becasue they tax the trees when they are harvested; they tax at 6% of everything sent to the mills. So if we never harvest, we never will pay the taxes... (some future landowner might and the stands here are always growing). 

As for mills being set up to cut certain types of wood, I can see that. Around here they are set up mostly for smaller diameter fir logs. Old growth and big stuff cut here has to be trucked farther to mill, and hence it costs more to mill. Nowhere to mill redwood around here. Also species; many good madrone, oaks and maples are left to burn in slash piles becasue they are not set up to mill that kind of wood here. So it is considered a trash tree on the planting sites. Monoculture is the same here as there in NZ, except here it is almost all Douglas fir. Except here Doug firs were the climax trees already established in these forests along with hemlock. Oregon is a big Doug fir garden now, really. Or farm. 40 year cycles for timber here. George Fenn has it down to 30 years, and he makes money off of thinning. Most thinning here is break even at best (mill lumber pays for the cost to thin the trees). 

In truth we are often times stumped as to what to do with large parts of the 105 acres we have here. The planting-harvesting timber cycle is beyond our lifetime. We do not have any children to pass this place along to. So as custodians of the land, for the short time of the rest of our lives, we are having to decide what to do and what makes the most economical and ecological sence. The locals and gov't officials all want us to put in Doug fir like everyone else. Most money, best return for them, yadda yadda. We have planted a mix of species here and left the older mixed species in place. 

We have decided to restore a very old 10 acre oak grove here that I am convinced the native Americal Indians cultivated by burning every summer here for 400 years. The trees are well over 250 years now. In the 50 or so years that the stands have been 'untended' the Doug and grand firs are invading their space and outgrowing their canopy. They will all die if they are left untended. We will be cutting down hundreds of firs to restore the area up there. The previous owners logged out all the old growth Doug firs here. Some fir stumps here are over 10 ft across. They were giants. But they left old growth "trash" trees for us. Maples and oaks. This is as far north as natural California Black Oaks thrive and oak stands are becoming rare. We have by far the most mixed species lot in this area.


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## treedoc1

*Just another Kudzu in the making*

Just as invasive as Ailanthus, and just as tough to eradicate.:censored:


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## BonsaiJedi

for what it's worth..their website is 
http://www.worldtreetech.com/

it would be good to hear more about it's invasive potential like how freely does it seed and how easily does it establish on its own.


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## SmokinDodge

Thanks for the link Bonsai, I guess I'll be able to order my five trees from there, maybe. I sent an e-mail a week ago to one of the contact links and they never got back to me :taped:

I never thought of it being an invasive specie, will have to check into that. I also wonder what pruning would be required to make the best lumber, and where the "market" is for the lumber.


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## Curtisg41

*Any info?*

Smoking Dodge...

I was curious if World Tree ever got back to you? Interested in what they had to say...


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## SmokinDodge

Curtisg41 said:


> Smoking Dodge...
> 
> I was curious if World Tree ever got back to you? Interested in what they had to say...



They haven't yet. Good thing I wasn't holding my breath. I have quite a few questions I would like to ask them if they would ever respond.


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## Curtisg41

SmokinDodge said:


> They haven't yet. Good thing I wasn't holding my breath. I have quite a few questions I would like to ask them if they would ever respond.



That happened to me as well... But I tried again and they eventually got back to me... Answered all the questions I had at the time... They said they've been swamped and apologized for the tardiness... Fair enough...


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## whitebc

Anyone plant one of these yet? Just wondering how it was doing in the last 2 years.


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## NYCHA FORESTER

treedoc1 said:


> Just as invasive as Ailanthus, and just as tough to eradicate.:censored:



It's considered a nusiance/non-native invasive tree in NYC and cannot be planted.

I've seen them growing by railroad tracks and in the cracks of old building foundations...... really tough trees and showy flowers. I think in a highly urbanized area they would make a great tree because they are so tough. Outside of urbanized areas I would be less inclined to recommend it.

(right tree for the right place)


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## Curtisg41

NYCHA FORESTER said:


> It's considered a nusiance/non-native invasive tree in NYC and cannot be planted.
> 
> I've seen them growing by railroad tracks and in the cracks of old building foundations...... really tough trees and showy flowers. I think in a highly urbanized area they would make a great tree because they are so tough. Outside of urbanized areas I would be less inclined to recommend it.
> 
> (right tree for the right place)



Actually, I think you may be misinformed. The invasive species you're speaking of is the Tomentosa. The Empress Splendor is taken from the same genus but perfected through gene therapy. (Believe it or not!) The staff at World Tree explained to me that they guarantee their product to be 100% non-invasive. But, because of the bad wrap the Tomentosa has given the 'Empress' name many people have made this mistake. 

Check it out! Pretty wild! www.worldtreetech.com

And, for 'WhiteBC': There is a section on the site called "The Family Tree Album" on the left of the home page where you can view customers that have purchased and posted photos. I personally have not planted any yet, but they add photos there all the time.


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## arbadacarba

If you can get it to grow in your area Western Red Alder is a great wood to try. Its a great nitrogen fixer for later woodlot trees, it's growth rate is extremely high, it's proportion of useable wood is high, it responds well to fairly dense planting, works well and hardens up nicely when properly dried. BTU content isn't as high as maple for firewood, but you can't have everything. Its also really coming into demand for furniture carcass wood.

When I was younger we used to use it only for firewood and it was considered to be a weed tree. Nice to see some of it used for better purposes now. What really turned me on to it was a forester friend who found out I had gone down to Uruguay to look at eucalyptus growth rates and told me that we got better from alder right here in B.C. When I learned last year that some people were now trying it out for flooring I really got interested.

That's the beauty of wood. It will always surprise you!


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## windthrown

Alder grows pretty fast here, and the pond price for logs is high. About the same price of #1 Doug fir saw logs.


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