# Eastern Hemlock Harvest -- Woolly Adelgid



## PA Plumber (Dec 24, 2006)

Hi guys. New to the site and just a few post under my belt.

We are having trouble with the Woolly Adelgid (HWA) and are looking at harvesting aprox. 13 acres (1,000 tons) of Eastern Hemlock. Location: South Central PA. I have contacted a local paper mill and have been offered $6.00/ton. I have contacted a couple of "local" mills and nobody seems to want it. Does $6.00/ton seem fair? Any ideas? A lot of the trees are 3' DBH easy. And a lot are 20" to 30". 

We were just going to do a Hemlock specific harvest and hope in 30 years the more valuable hard wood trees will fill in the holes. The area of the potential harvest has a lot of White, Red, and Chestnut Oak, so hopefully we will get decent regeneration.

Some of the trees are located in marshy, wet areas and seem to be doing fine and we are leaving those areas alone. The trees on the higher elevations are getting hammered by the HWA.

I love these big, beautiful trees, but they are dying and the tops are starting to break off.


----------



## John Ellison (Dec 24, 2006)

I dont know anything about eastern hemlock, but it would be a shame for timber that size to go as pulp wood.
You could contact the state forestry dept. or hire a forrester to help market it.


----------



## PA Plumber (Dec 25, 2006)

I did speak to two different timber marketing companies. One suggested the local pulp mill. The other didn't want any part of it. The HWA is in our area but some of the trees are still in very good shape. I was hoping this would help the timber value to sell them before they were too far gone. We have about another 30 acres of Eastern Hemlock that could be harvested. I just hate to have it all sent to the paper mill. So, we are looking into seeing what we can do with this first section and go from there. 

I understand there is about a 66% mortality in untreated forests and am planning to take my chances with the other 30 acres. 

I also looked into getting state assistance in treating the bug, but definitely not cost effective. Too many acres that need to be treated every 3 years. The service forester in our area has approved this first harvest because of the HWA. This really stinks.


----------



## trimmmed (Dec 25, 2006)

I hate that HWA bug.


----------



## PA Plumber (Dec 25, 2006)

If anyone is looking for pulpwood, let me know. We have very good access to the Hemlock trees, and it's near a main road.


----------



## stumpjumper83 (Dec 25, 2006)

Check with the local amish or menonite in the area, they have been known to use it sometimes. The other idea is to advertise in a paper called the "lancaster farmer" lots of people read it.


----------



## Forest Steward (Dec 25, 2006)

Hemlock is definitely a tricky one. It does make pretty good lumber, if you find trees without ring shake in it. The problem is that the bigger the tree, the more likely you are to encounter it. Obviously this isn't an issue for pulpwood sales though. So it's no wonder a tree marking service wouldn't want to get involved. There isn't much money to make even in "good" hemlock, and good hemlock isn't very abundant around here at least. We just cut a handful of them the other day but he just buys it from the land owner himself for his own personal use.


----------



## PA Plumber (Dec 25, 2006)

stumpjumper83 said:


> Check with the local amish or menonite in the area, they have been known to use it sometimes. The other idea is to advertise in a paper called the "lancaster farmer" lots of people read it.




stumpjumper,

Would you be willing to pm me a couple of mills or possible contacts? I'm about 1 1/2 hours to the west of Lancaster. I have a small track loader that could be used to move and possibly load some of the smaller logs.
Thank you.


----------



## PA Plumber (Dec 25, 2006)

Ring Shake? I'm not familiar with it.


----------



## Forest Steward (Dec 25, 2006)

When it comes to timber, it's bad stuff. Basically it is a separation in the wood fibers that goes around the annual rings. If you look at the cut end of a log, it will almost look like there are growth rings missing. If this is cut through in a mill and goes along a Bard, it will just separate. Depending on where it occurs in the log, you can saw around it to get some yield out of it, but there tends to be a bit of waste. I can't find any real good pics of it right off hand, but I'll bring the digital camera to work sometime this week and see if I can find any in the log piles there. It's pretty easy to spot when the tree is cut, but there aren't any real indicators of it when the tree is standing. I've looked around and asked a few knowledgeable people on what causes it, but the most I can get out of them is it's mainly from site conditions. I think moisture in particular is a significant factor.


----------



## PA Plumber (Dec 26, 2006)

Is ring shake something that will be a contingency on a harvest; I.E. any tree cut with ring shake will not be used or will be devalued?

Some of the largest trees, 25" + dbh, are at the bottoms of some nice ridges. These areas are not wet, but are at the bottom side of large drainage areas. They are still growing, but show signs of HWA infestation.


----------



## Forest Steward (Dec 27, 2006)

The shake would have to be pretty bad for them not to use it at all, but it will definitely devalue it. It's considered a defect and will effect the scale of the log. Since the sawyer will not be able to use the whole log, the buyer isn't going to pay you for it. This doesn't necessarily make it not worth cutting, it's just something you should be aware of. It's one of those things hemlock is prone to, so there's a chance these trees might have it. The only way to tell is to cut a few down and see how they look. You can always make plans from there on how to market them.

I have been told that significant changes in growth rate can have an effect on ring shake forming. And since any defoliator, like our good 'ol HWA, will change how a tree grows, that might have an impact too. I really don't know though. I haven't heard of anyone making that correlation before. Again, I'm not trying to talk you out of harvesting them or anything, it's just good to be informed about this stuff when you go to sell them and your not getting the scale you think you should.


----------



## PA Plumber (Dec 27, 2006)

F. S.
Thanks for the info. Appreciate the time for a little "schooling." I'm planning on trying to find a mill after the first of the year. We have some around our farm, I just have to drive up and talk to them in person.


----------



## Lonnie (Jan 18, 2007)

Wind shook is what we call it here in wva...lol Has for selling hemlock for pulp here they don't want it at the pulp mills...The guys running the smaller mills loves it tho .They can't seem to get enough of the stuff here....


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 18, 2007)

Update:

I did locate sawmill who will pay a very good rate for the trees. I just have to cut them down and haul them 1 1/2 hour to the west. By the time all that is paid for, it will be about the same as the papermill.

I did receive a contract from a local pulp company. He knows I am still trying to find a "fair" price and is willing to let me get back to him.

More and more, it looks like these trees may be paper.


----------



## MALogger (Jan 21, 2007)

Greetings,

I would try to find a mill that cuts timbers for post & beam frames or bridge timbers. In my area they don't pay a lot for hemlock but it is still worth cutting. As far as the ring shake you can sometimes buck a pulp stick off the bottm and then get into some decent wood after that. In my experience you will get the best money from hemlock selling it for timber stock!

Hemlock pulp here goes for 36/ton but if it is going out of state some mills require it certified by APHUS.

Hope that helps!


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 21, 2007)

Thank you for the response MALogger.

We have a local mill called Tuscarora Hardwoods. They are not interested in the Hemlock. They have been out and think it looks to be in very good shape.

$36.00/ton pulp. Man I wish!!!


----------



## MALogger (Jan 21, 2007)

Well that 36/ton is delivered and it costs 19/ton to get it there!
Are there any softwood mills in your area?

You might want to contact your local Extension Office, they usually have a listing of primary wood producers (loggers and sawmills) by state and the nice thing about the listings is they tell you what they produce so you could find a mill that saws softwood that some of their production is for timer stock.


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 21, 2007)

Extension office: 

Would that be the county forester or the local conservation district office?


----------



## MALogger (Jan 21, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> Extension office:
> 
> Would that be the county forester or the local conservation district office?



That would be the county extension, usually affiliated with a college or the likes but I am sure a county forester could get you pointed in the right direction! I only know how it works in my area!


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 21, 2007)

This will really show my ignorance, but here it goes:

What do you mean by timber stock?

We have enough Hemlocks I would like to eventually mill lumber for a building. No $$ resources at the moment for a mill but am considering it. If there is a chance I could mill this "timber stock" myself, that may be worth considering.


----------



## MALogger (Jan 21, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> This will really show my ignorance, but here it goes:
> 
> What do you mean by timber stock?
> 
> We have enough Hemlocks I would like to eventually mill lumber for a building. No $$ resources at the moment for a mill but am considering it. If there is a chance I could mill this "timber stock" myself, that may be worth considering.



Timber stck means logs that are straight that can be milled into timbers for use in Timber frame houses or buildings or they also make bridge timbers.Basically timber stock is straight usually 12" tip diameter (small end) and larger and they need to be sound (no rot) and the good thing is they aren't bothered by knots as long as theyaren't really large 4" or less but different mills have differnt specs. You could keep some of the logs yourself and have someone with a portable mill come and mill them if you have a use for the wood.


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 21, 2007)

Thanks for your help. 

I am planning to make some calls tomorrow and see what I come up with. I have been trying to do this on my own and since we don't live up in that area, I haven't been able to make a lot of contacts.


----------



## MALogger (Jan 21, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> Thanks for your help.
> 
> I am planning to make some calls tomorrow and see what I come up with. I have been trying to do this on my own and since we don't live up in that area, I haven't been able to make a lot of contacts.



Good Luck PA!!


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 22, 2007)

Update:
Spoke with the county forester. Most PA sawmills are independent with limited regulation. Mostly a do what you want state I guess. 

Did speak with 2 mills today and got leads for 3 more. One is amish and I am planning to drive up tomorrow (45min one way) since he has no phone. He is a softwood specific mill so will see what happens.


----------



## Lonnie (Jan 23, 2007)

Good luck man


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 23, 2007)

Thank you Lonnie.

I did speak with someone today from a company that builds log homes and has a sawmill. They said they are definitely interested in looking at the timber. I hope to hear from them tomorrow.


----------



## Lonnie (Jan 23, 2007)

Thats greeat wish ya the best...... The smaller mills here can't get enough of the stuff....Alone with white pines....Im getting ready to clear cut round 2 or so ackers here with white pine and poplars..Will be easy to get rid of the stuff..


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 23, 2007)

Isn't that the way it goes. One part of the country is starving for stuff another part of the country practically can't give away.  

Our Tulip Popular is around $.70/board foot right now. I read in another thread that it's junk in the area the poster lives.


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 25, 2007)

*Saw Mill*

Here's the latest in case there was anyone following this.

Met with a saw mill today. And the plan:
I am to fell, limb, buck and stage the logs.
They will pick up the logs and charge me approx. $250 for delivery (110 mi. round trip.
They have given me a sheet with lengths & diameters they want.
He is going to let me work at me own pace and to let him know when I have a load ready.

I think I'm going to do this. The price will work out to be about 27 cents/board foot average before delivery. He will supply a triaxle with a grapple. I have about 6 weeks of healing yet from surgery and I plan to get a 441 and get started. I have a small track loader and should be all set. 

There are hundreds of trees that meet the minimum DBH requirement. Man, I'm a little excited about giving this a go!


----------



## Lonnie (Jan 25, 2007)

GREAT KNOWS MAN......Be carefull and have fun...


----------



## sloth9669 (Jan 26, 2007)

*iam in*

pay for my ticket ill fly there and drop some trees with you....its my dream to do some good logging like that....just no career in it......boy do i want to just go drop some trees...........take pics and post em keep us in the loop...good luck


----------



## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

Thanks for the responses. I just starte a thread about this with a few questions on it.

I'm planning to give Rob (Northern Tool Washer Guy) a call when I get ready to start.


----------

