# opinions please



## farmerjack68 (Mar 18, 2008)

Hello
Im new to posting here but have been reading for awhile ,Alot of good info!
Ive been thinking about building a pro cut mill i have an 076 stihl with a 
36" bar to run it or buying a norwood lumberlite 24
What i plan on using it for is i would like to build a timber frame cabin with cedar timbers and pine log infill and i also need to cut some cedar for my kitchen .
I have two people that want to buy some cedar boards too and would like to be able to saw some ties on the side in spare time 
Any input would be helpful
Thank you 
farmerjack


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## woodshop (Mar 18, 2008)

Band mill any day of the week, no contest. You'll be way ahead of the game in time spent milling, amount of lumber wasted, ease of milling... lots of things.


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## slabmaster (Mar 18, 2008)

Welcome to the site There are alot of choises when talking saw mills.Mine was a granberg i got fom Bailey's.Can't beat it for the money.It was payed off the first day i used it.I like the portability of it as i mill the tree where i drop it most the time.I save alot not having expensive equiptment to maintain.Some people like the bandmills.They cost more,but probably easier on your back. Good Luck on whatever you choose.Mark


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## peter nap (Mar 18, 2008)

When I bought my Alaskan, money was not the primary deciding factor (for once).

I spent a lot of time looking and trying out. As far as sawing, the bandsaw mill is the way to go. I went with the CSM because I could take it to the logs. I have a tractor that is big enough to skid logs but unless I trailer it and the mill to the logs, it doesn;t do me much good.

I've never looked back...well, maybe that marathon sawing day...but not for long.


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## deeker (Mar 18, 2008)

I have both the alaskan mill, and the "beam machine". They do great jobs. And I also have a Norwood LM2000 with the 23hp briggs. No question which I prefer. I do use the alaskan quite a bit on the larger logs, with the stihl 088 but my back says I am pushing my luck. :censored: We had to cut up a 4' diameter cottonwood to get it on the mill. I can finish cut boards up to 24" with the norwood, and even bigger (a lot slower) with the alaskan.

Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts


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## EPA (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi All: I have 2 chain saws to cut down trees and block into logs and an LM 2000 Norwood mill to slice them up. I see some posts showing Guys with 6,8,10 chain saws ($ value at 2500 ++) and wonder if a LL24 at 2900$ and 2 saws wouldnt produce 5 times as much production for the same $$ EPA


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## Rodney Sinclair (Mar 20, 2008)

EPA said:


> Hi All: I have 2 chain saws to cut down trees and block into logs and an LM 2000 Norwood mill to slice them up. I see some posts showing Guys with 6,8,10 chain saws ($ value at 2500 ++) and wonder if a LL24 at 2900$ and 2 saws wouldnt produce 5 times as much production for the same $$ EPA



Maybe if your talkin' about the Alaskan mill. But the man is asking about the ProCut mill, and it's not the same. I know in my case, I have the TimberKing 1220 and the Logosol M7 chainsaw mill. It takes the same amount of work for each to cut a tree, trim and get a log to the mill. It is true that the 1220 will cut a little faster(because of the kurf), but anything I gain, I lose again with the cost of sharping the blades.
As far as the LL24, I think he will end up having to build something like the ProCut to have a frame deck strong enough to hold up.

Rodney


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 20, 2008)

Rodney Sinclair said:


> Maybe if your talkin' about the Alaskan mill. But the man is asking about the ProCut mill, and it's not the same. I know in my case, I have the TimberKing 1220 and the Logosol M7 chainsaw mill. It takes the same amount of work for each to cut a tree, trim and get a log to the mill. It is true that the 1220 will cut a little faster(because of the kurf), but anything I gain, I lose again with the cost of sharping the blades.
> As far as the LL24, I think he will end up having to build something like the ProCut to have a frame deck strong enough to hold up.
> 
> Rodney



I'm not sure i agree with all of what you said... It really depends on what log handleing equipment he has or will get to help. Even a 4wd pu will skid a pretty big log, i've done it myself many times in the past.

A 4x4 4wheeler with a log arch will bring some big logs to the mill too. And even if you mill the log in the woods, you still have to get the lumber out, and that takes time.

How much gas/oil does that chainsaw use compared to a 4 bandmill stroke? And are you saying you don't have to sharpen your CSM chains?? How about the chain saw kerf? Every 5th board is FREE with a band mill, and the noise diff. ect.. ect..

Yes, a band sharpener is expensive, but my brother sharpened his bands "free hand" for several years with a dremel untill he build a sharpener... I use a Norwood sharpener and get along with it just fine, and i sharpen my bands on average 10 times before i scrap them.

Lots and lots of things enter into this, and that's why there will be so many opinions. But, the one thing i've noticed even on this site is, 99% of the time CSM-ers would like to have a band mill in the first place, so i recommend the origional poster look at band mills. If he doesn't buy one now, he sure will wish he had later!

As for the LL24, (same with any other bandmills in this price range) you will need to sit it on something solid, like a driveway, or trailor. Or like was said, build something better to sit it on, like a cement slab, or I-beams.

CSM's are great for some things, but a band mill does so much more it isn't even funny... It's really the way to go.. for 99.9% of the folks wanting to make lumber. 

Rob


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## farmerjack68 (Mar 20, 2008)

Thank you all for your replies
as far as skidding equipment i have a 78 3/4 ton ford 4x4 it will be my skidder for awhile .
i also plan to buy logs from local loggers i have two that will sell me oak at 
$0.25 a bf delivered to my place .
i also have about 40 acres with alot of woods and a farmer up the road that has a bunch of cedar he said i could have just for going to get it but i cant get in right now its to wet i cant tear up his pasture 
$$$ is the biggest concern at the moment i can cover the ll24 but i would love to get something bigger maybe in the future but not right now just cant afford any bigger.
thanks again 
farmerjack


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## olyman (Mar 20, 2008)

you mentioned cutting up rr ties??? forgetaboutit---youll eat blades--or chains inumerable--i cut them with a carbide blade in a circular saw,and thats even hard on them!!!!


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## slabmaster (Mar 20, 2008)

EPA said:


> Hi All: I have 2 chain saws to cut down trees and block into logs and an LM 2000 Norwood mill to slice them up. I see some posts showing Guys with 6,8,10 chain saws ($ value at 2500 ++) and wonder if a LL24 at 2900$ and 2 saws wouldnt produce 5 times as much production for the same $$ EPA



It doesn't take 10 saws to make alot of lumber.I made 10 times this amount with 1 saw that is still going strong today.


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## deeker (Mar 20, 2008)

Not wishing to sound abraisive here...but. I can cut just over 2000bf a day on the LM2000 with some good help. Once with all kinds of help including a tractor/lift and 3 people and the logs set up right...we went just over 3000bf in one day. Over 14hrs though, and extremely exhausting. I would not attempt that with a CSM. And I used less gas too. Ate less exhaust. I will get a bigger sawmill before I try that crap again. With hydraulic turner and lifter. Power feed and all the bells and whistles that I cannot afford right now.
Slabmaster, nice pic. What kind of wood is that? Maple?

Kevin Davis
Ruff Cutts


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## peter nap (Mar 20, 2008)

farmerjack68 said:


> Thank you all for your replies
> as far as skidding equipment i have a 78 3/4 ton ford 4x4 it will be my skidder for awhile .
> i also plan to buy logs from local loggers i have two that will sell me oak at
> $0.25 a bf delivered to my place .
> ...



Looks like you've done your homework Jack. You need to get what you want and fits your budget.

When I first thought about milling, I asked for advice on the forestry forum. I had spent a lot of time there because I am building a timberframe. They are died in the wool, bandsawers.
Nothing wrong with that but after a lot of trial and error, I realized it was not what I wanted. 
Luckily, I found this forum (Don't care much for some of the people on the chainsaw forum, but I don;t go there anyway)

Anyway, the people here are a great source of information and you;ll finde them a lot of help.


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## slabmaster (Mar 20, 2008)

deeker said:


> Not wishing to sound abraisive here...but. I can cut just over 2000bf a day on the LM2000 with some good help. Once with all kinds of help including a tractor/lift and 3 people and the logs set up right...we went just over 3000bf in one day. Over 14hrs though, and extremely exhausting. I would not attempt that with a CSM. And I used less gas too. Ate less exhaust. I will get a bigger sawmill before I try that crap again. With hydraulic turner and lifter. Power feed and all the bells and whistles that I cannot afford right now.
> Slabmaster, nice pic. What kind of wood is that? Maple
> Kevin Davis
> Ruff Cutts



Mostly ash& cherry.Some curly maple.Most 16 Ft long All done in the woods where i droped the tree and brought out with a honda200sx and a wagon. Mark


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## deeker (Mar 20, 2008)

Slabmaster, you use it yourself? I am learning how to build basic rustic stuff now. And I stress learning......what is your end use for the wood? We cut a lot of ponderosa pine, white pine, doug fir, juniper (cedar red and white) cottonwood and for fun....metal loaded yard trees..


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## TNMIKE (Mar 20, 2008)

*I went through this same thought process*

I had an Alaskan Mill and plenty of chainsaws. Its a hard way to make lumber but its enjoyable. 

I thought about making a pro cut style mill but after thinking about it I decided to build a band mill. I am about to order all the steel I cannot find at the local junk yard.( ie the track angle iron) The larger engine and the narrow kerf made me decide to go in this direction. I need to build a shop and add onto a barn so I need quite a bit of lumber.


The one thing I am lacking is an engine. I want at least a 13HP engine. I got an ad from Harbor Freight today and they had a 13 HP horizontal engine with cast iron sleeve for $299 with a 15% off coupon.

Has anyone had any experience with these engines?


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## timhar (Mar 20, 2008)

olyman said:


> you mentioned cutting up rr ties??? forgetaboutit---youll eat blades--or chains inumerable--i cut them with a carbide blade in a circular saw,and thats even hard on them!!!!


I'm sure he means sawing logs into 7X9's for the tie industry.


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 20, 2008)

TNMIKE said:


> I had an Alaskan Mill and plenty of chainsaws. Its a hard way to make lumber but its enjoyable.
> 
> I thought about making a pro cut style mill but after thinking about it I decided to build a band mill. I am about to order all the steel I cannot find at the local junk yard.( ie the track angle iron) The larger engine and the narrow kerf made me decide to go in this direction. I need to build a shop and add onto a barn so I need quite a bit of lumber.
> 
> ...



My brother just bought one, made in China... He says it runs nice, but no idea how long it will last??

If your building a bandmill, i have two industrial castiron band wheels on axles in pillow blocks... (no junk here!) I took them off a bandmill and i don't need them... If you or anyone else is interested in them, PM me...

Here's a pict. of the "drive" band wheel...







Rob


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## deeker (Mar 20, 2008)

Robert, what kind of a mill is that in the pic?


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## Rodney Sinclair (Mar 21, 2008)

deeker said:


> Not wishing to sound abraisive here...but. I can cut just over 2000bf a day on the LM2000 with some good help. Once with all kinds of help including a tractor/lift and 3 people and the logs set up right...we went just over 3000bf in one day. Over 14hrs though, and extremely exhausting. I would not attempt that with a CSM. And I used less gas too. Ate less exhaust. I will get a bigger sawmill before I try that crap again. With hydraulic turner and lifter. Power feed and all the bells and whistles that I cannot afford right now.
> Slabmaster, nice pic. What kind of wood is that? Maple?
> 
> Kevin Davis
> Ruff Cutts



OK hoss, now why don't you come on back and tell us what you can by yourself using the gear FarmerJack is talking about? I hate to be the one to tell you that you are being "abraisive" here. In fact, I'll say every thing past the word "but" is pure bull####.

Rodney


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## woodshop (Mar 21, 2008)

Rodney Sinclair said:


> OK hoss, now why don't you come on back and tell us what you can by yourself using the gear FarmerJack is talking about? I hate to be the one to tell you that you are being "abraisive" here. In fact, I'll say every thing past the word "but" is pure bull####.
> 
> Rodney



um... Rodney... his name is Kevin, not "hoss"...


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## MJR (Mar 21, 2008)

I have a LL24 and it works well for me. It is a very basic mill. I also do the CSM thing. A large band mill is not needed unless you have the heavy equipment to support it. I am looking at 14 NY cedar logs out my window. The 30 mph wind and snow slowed me down today. I hope to get some more tomorrow. I also built my little hunting camp with the LL24. If you are mechanical the LL24 can "grow" with your needs. What do you have to lose? If you go to resell the LL24 you my lose $300-$400. It is a safe bet you will mill over that dollar. Best of luck.


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 21, 2008)

Actually, i didn't think he sounded abrasive... To me it sounded like he was pointing out what production he got with his mill, and how hard he had to work to get it...

There's no doubt that the origional poster should get a bandmill, and he should get at least something in the Lumbermate class, but at least if he buys a LL24 it will have a decent resale on down the road...

He's expecting waaaaay to much production to even consider a CSM!

Rob


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## carvinmark (Mar 21, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Actually, i didn't think he sounded abrasive... To me it sounded like he was pointing out what production he got with his mill, and how hard he had to work to get it...
> 
> There's no doubt that the origional poster should get a bandmill, and he should get at least something in the Lumbermate class, but at least if he buys a LL24 it will have a decent resale on down the road...
> 
> ...



I will have to agree.


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## deeker (Mar 21, 2008)

Rob, who did you say left the key on their mill all winter????:censored: :jawdrop:  


Kevin Davis
(Hoss)
Ruff Cutts


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## farmerjack68 (Mar 22, 2008)

Thanks for all of the replies
Im learning alot from this fourm.
Well i've decided to go with the ll24 i will be ordering it next week .
I'm really excited reading all the posts i can't wait to start sawing !
I'll get some pictures on here when i get started .
Thanks again
farmerjack


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## peter nap (Mar 22, 2008)

farmerjack68 said:


> Thanks for all of the replies
> Im learning alot from this fourm.
> Well i've decided to go with the ll24 i will be ordering it next week .
> I'm really excited reading all the posts i can't wait to start sawing !
> ...



You'll enjoy it Jack. One word of warning though.
It's addictive!
There's something magic about that board or beam you cut yourself....especially if the log's free.


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## MJR (Mar 22, 2008)

Good luck with the LL24. Some free advice - don't use the wood for the frame. Go right to steel. You will sooner or later. Also when turning the logs be careful on the bunks. They will bend if a lot of weight is placed on them - cut your braches flush with the log. Norwood blades are expensive. I use Lenox woodmaster and they work as well as Norwood blades and are cheaper. Have fun with the new toy.


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## EPA (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi Farmerjack: Good choice on the mill // dont forget to sign up on the Norwood Town hall site- lots of guys with LL24s etc and some good info and fun. JP


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## farmerjack68 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Guys,
Thanks again 
Ive been reading the town hall forum very interesting .
Sounds like ill have to beef up the track and maybe the log bunks and build some toe boards.
i may build a trailer or convert one i already have to set it on .
but for sure a steel under the rails.
Do any of you buy logs from loggers?
I can buy oak logs for $0.25 abf is this about right ?
i talked a guy with a mill about 50 miles from me he said he pays $0.28 for oak so i thought $0.25 was ok price.
farmerjack


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## Hidden_Cottage (May 3, 2008)

What is the Norwood Town hall site?


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## deeker (May 3, 2008)

Hidden cottage, welcome aboard. Here is a link to norwood. Maybe, try norwood sawmill mfg.


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## Hidden_Cottage (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for the help finding the Townhall site, it is part the the Norwood Webpage (http://www.norwoodindustries.com/townhall/) and it seems to have a lot of great participants and helpful information.


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