# 16 strand vs 12 strand



## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

I started out on manilla ropes, went to esterlon, and then Safety Blue High-Vee. The only 12 strand I've ever used was True-Blue. I never liked it due to it's streecheness... too dynamic for my taste.

What do YOU prefer, and WHY?


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## rborist1 (Apr 4, 2004)

:Eye:


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## rahtreelimbs (Apr 4, 2004)

I am still in the process of using up some 12 strand Tree Line that I bought a few years ago. I have a 600 ft. spool of 16 strand Safety-Blue that I have taken a 150 ft. hank off of. I have used the Safety-Blue and 16 strand rope seems to be the way to go. Besides the splicing ability, it seems to run smoother with the VT hitch that I am using.


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

So whats the diff between the two? Dynamic range? Splicing?


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## Nickrosis (Apr 4, 2004)

In my experience, 16 strand ropes let knots slide more easily on them. Like a 12 strand is smoother than a 3 strand, a 16 strand is smoother than a 12.

Tim Walsh was working on splicing 12 strand rope, but I don't know if he ever was able to complete it. He had broken a couple of wands trying. It would be impossible for me. The 16 strand is much easier to splice.

Usually, I've seen the 12 strands just getting used up in tagline applications, etc. In my mind, the only thing it has going for it is a low cost.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 4, 2004)

i think 12 is hollow, 16 is not.

The 12 is less round, knubbier; perhaps easier to grip in hand for ground man while rigging, pulling your self up etc., harder for friction hitch to slide. i remember a long time ago, a local dealer calling the 16 strands 'fast lines'; and recomended trainees use 12 strand.

The 16 construction, is 'rounder' as a stop sign is trounder than a square, so i think the friction hitch rides smoother IMLHO

i think Samson ArboPlex and Wall ArboPlus have the polyolefin(sp.?) fibers that are hamburger helper filler fibers that are brittle, more heat sensitive and get 'raggedy' slowing things down even more in a 12 strand.

True Blue and Tree ProRed, are stronger, softer lines from same manufacturers respectively without the pololefin. So ithink those stuffer fibers give the line the lower strength artificially, but hits the diameter requirement 

i always thought that True Blue lasted a long time, a premium 12 strand if ya want such a line. 

The Blue Streak family is prolly the winner here; but i would never discount any of the NE Safety Blues, i think in time Yellow Jacket will prove itself more and more.


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

*Well, thats it then.*

12 strand sucks. Thats what I thought, but I wanted some feedback. I thought maybe I was missing something.

I'm not happy with my Fly. The trade-off with its lightness and plyability is it's propensity to capture any little twig/whatnot.

I'm gonna try those psyco XTC lines next... maybe Fire first. If that fails, it'll be back to good 'ole Safety Blue.


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## xtremetrees (Apr 4, 2004)

I heard that MB.
I just got me a 150 ft High vee safety blue. The first I bought was 120 foot and lasted 6 years! Its still useable however its about 50 foot from all the nicks. I bought the fly also, Tom might buy yours from ya. I wanted to test my fly out a little more but just dont think I will. Imma stay with Safety blue hi ve to.


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## xtremetrees (Apr 4, 2004)

Mb did you punish that dead monster cottonwood with that puiny 160,000 lb crane! hahaha
Lucky joker I'd have to climb out on all them dead tips all the while thinking "light as a feather!"
Howd it go?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 4, 2004)

I still like the Fly.
I have loads of different climbing lines, the Fly is still my favorite.


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## OutOnaLimb (Apr 4, 2004)

The 12 strand Arbor-plex is about the cheapest thing going, but it does have its advantages. It works great for a tag line, or even a lowering line for light applications. As a climb line it has a better bite when used with a blakes hitch, and doesnt slip like the 16 strand lines have a tendency to do. I like to keep a 30ft piece of arbor-plex in my kit bag for trimming small ornementals. But other than that I have moved up to the 16 strand lines. I usually order a 150 footer and cut off about 30 ft to splice my own split tails.:Yeah yeah yeah, I know every one is gettin big on tress cords and such, but I still like the good old Blakes hitch.

Kenn:Monkey:


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

Does it seem to catch on the brush under you?

Other than that, I luvs my Fly.


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## BigJohn (Apr 4, 2004)

I wasn't a big fan of the true blue at first but after using it for about two years straight now I am starting to like it. It seems to wear really wear and take the abuse of burning it up. I believe the dynammic qualities are what keeps it from getting retired as quickly as my 16 strands for rigging. I don't think I have ever broke one. I love 16 strand for pulling and rigging in situations where I need to keep a piece up and working in close tolerances. 

As for the fly I love it. I agree that it takes a little more tending. Its like haveing kids you need to keep a close eye on it. I love the lightness of it. I haven't really went back to a 16 strand for climbing since it came out. I have a practically new yellow jacket has been out one in the two years that I had it. I am in need of some new climbing line and my choice will be fly. I believe I am going to get it pre spliced and then add my own stitching. I just hate spliceing it. It usually gets started and it takes me awhile till I do the final tuck, its just a ?????. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if I didn't want it perfect. Tim from sherrill admitted it looks better than ones spliced from Sherrill.


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## okietreedude1 (Apr 4, 2004)

Ive been climbing on NE Hi-vee for almost 6 yrs now and I would NEVER go back to 12 st. 16 is easier all the way around.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 4, 2004)

I like to keep my hitch tied, pull it out of my rope bag, do my climb, re-stuff my bag by pulling it through my hitch and fair lead back into the bag. The far end of my rope doesn't leave the bag for days sometimes.
The Fly fits into a smaller bag than most, and stuffs easier.
It's thinness can be a detriment for grasping power and catching on stuff because of it's lightness, but it is a nice rope.


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

So, with your Fly in a 'bag', I guess you eliminate the brush-tangling thing.

Bag... hmmm... :alien:


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 4, 2004)

I love the fly,,,I doubt i'll ever go back to a safety blue,,,or blue streak. The fact of it being lighter and taking up less space is what i really love, as well it takes to handled ascenders better than 16 strand. Does anyone have the splicing directions for the fly, and can you splice both ends?


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

No brush tangling problem with you, TJ?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 4, 2004)

Splicing both ends of a rope can be done, but it's like dating two girls at once, there might be trouble if both systems meet.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 4, 2004)

i don't think ive really experienced that so much MB, now hackling however has occasionally been a prob. I just love the feeling of it in the hand.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 4, 2004)

Are we talking ropes or dates?


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## NickfromWI (Apr 4, 2004)

Yeah, I second MM...don't splice both ends. 

Treejunkie, call NER, they'll fax you the splicing directions. Have fun with them...measure carefully!

I like the fly. I started using it just a few months ago (I am trying it out as my "short" rope....so I am not really seeing it's TRUE lightweightedness). 

12 vs. 16...I'd go with 16. I like round ropes.

Splicing the 12 usually is not possible. Here are two exceptions I can think of. If the hank of rope you have came off a spool that was made much looser than usual (the ropes are often not made the same...2 Blue Streaks can be different, you know) then you might be able to splice the looser woven True Blue. The other exception is Yale's Varilay process where they weave a loose spot in the rope so that they can purposely put a splice there later. That's a good deal.

Ok, I have to go to bed now!

love
nick


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## Lumberjack (Apr 5, 2004)

I use Blue Streak, and like it. It also wears really well. I perfer 16 over 12 for climbing and 12 over 16 for rigging in natural crotches. 12 strand is very cheap, and it wears well also. I get short lengths (under 100') for really cheap prices, such as 75' for $29.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Apr 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *I still like the Fly.
> I have loads of different climbing lines, the Fly is still my favorite. *



I couldn't agree more.

I can't find the fly here and am about to order 200ft for my final certifications at the end of this month - chainsaw, aerial rescue in outer-canopy.....it requires a 150ft line.

I can order a spliced 200ft hank of Fly from the USA (with shipping)cheaper than I can buy a 150ft spliced 16 strand here.

I luvs my fly

I almost never use a natural crotch, and have had no problems with picking, etc.

IMHO hockling comes from your hitch, not your rope. My 4-2 is a hockling hitch. I need to revist Brian's 4-1 as it didn't hockle or try reversing the legs on my braids.


btw - 16 strand over 12


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## blackwaterguide (Apr 6, 2004)

I don't want to say a certain line sucks because it is not the number strand I prefer. Off-hand remarks often alienate folks and accomplish little. 
True Blue is all polyester and so far as longevity goes, if your're
into getting your $ worth I have doubt it can be beat. I think the same could be said of pro Red.


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## NickfromWI (Apr 6, 2004)

Practically all arborist climbing lines are all polyester in the cover Some have nylon cores....but that doesn't matter too much.

A lot of people prefer the 12 strands for rigging. 12 strand line is made with a few fat strands, rather than many skinny strands. Fatter strands can put up with more wear. A hard-lay 3-strand is hard to beat if wear was your only concern.

I like round ropes. 16 strand is good. I like the fly, too.

love
nick


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 6, 2004)

I started out with hardlay, I hated double braids limp feel at first.

I wish there was a stiffer braided line out there that could be used for regular rigging.


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## NickfromWI (Apr 6, 2004)

John, have you tried the SuperBraid Plus that Sherrill had in their '03 catalog? I think it's made by Wall. It's firm. I think you'd like it.

love
nick


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