# Really, what wit all these old dudes?



## treemandan (Jul 16, 2011)

Who are trying to get into tree work. I just had a bad experiance with one of you. It was my fault I got burnt. The guy turns out to be ISA after a little reading, an ex-hack electrcian who happens to have a bucket truck but don't know one tree from the other. This guy was literaly bragging about getting his saws at auction. At AUCTION!? Well, I only saw one , the rest, he said, were in the shop.

So i drive all the way out there on sub contract ( and this guy is a total ####### contractor saying yes to everything and talking about how it was like it means anything now - oh don't get me started), I see the trees, he asks how much I would have charged like he knows he don't know and he didn't. I said " a few K just to get talking about how much to charge" , He didn't have anywhere near that.

I was thinking " I came out for my 400, I am getting it one way or another". I got it but i think i cost me more than that to make it. I should have just said no and left. He had a kid to help, the guy said " the kid knows what to do". I knew he was lying ( especially when they tried to pull over that back leaning oak pole with a 2 wheel drive pickup, it was going up hill in loose dirt, rope tied to the back and into the street. I didn't let them do that.

See? I am a nice guy. I broke my ass taking these big oaks of the house. I shouldn't have done it. I think my sub contracting days are over. Well, I do get off showing off, but #### these mother####ers.

Really, even some of these manager/salesmen/ISA yacks with 20 years with a dill doe up their ass want o guy buy a bucket and still can't get the tree down. They ask me how much. Hey, I don't really care if its top dollar, I just want to have people with their minds ready to do tree work when they step on the feild. 

Yeah, I am a lunatic, that is why I am up there. I am not a stupid lunatic though. Really, I think I would just be happy to be alive at that age. Start a tree company? Better of starting a garden pops, no offense, I sure hope I ain't sutpit enough to start a tree company when I am over 50 and actually do the work without knowing how to do it. 

And they all same the same thing " I am going for municple contracts!" Its always contracts this and contracts that.

Even the kids are doing it. Its rampant, like a plague. One dude spent a wad on a CC machine, printer and who knows what to have in his truck so he could spit out contracts right and left. That #### caused more problems i would ever hope to see doing this work and ended up full of dust and broken. Really now?

Who are these people trying to be? I am The Dan, they are not.


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## tree md (Jul 16, 2011)

I am to the point that I will no longer contract climb unless I am in dire straights and in desperate need of income. These yo yo's get out and underbid then want you to come in and climb it for them... The whole process just makes no sense to me. From now on I'm like, your dumbass bid it that cheap, now figure out how to do it. Really, I think you are just shooting yourself in the foot working for these yo yo's. I know I would be.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 16, 2011)

Kinda hear ya there. I am 50 now, but I started climbing when I was 17. I quit climbing at 42 and went to operations for a good company. I don't want the head-ache of being an owner. There is no money (real money) in residential here. They are small and remain small. Our competition is pretty much apples to apples and I like that. 
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Jul 16, 2011)

I've been thinking lately that there should be (in a perfect world) a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to start a tree business. It would involve actually climbing and manually taking down a big assed tree in a nasty spot.. and I mean a bad one! There could be some sort of point system that seasoned treemen would score maybe..

I'm sick of it too... my area has become so saturated with tree companies, that now that I have all this crap in the yard, it's like I'm making less than ever and just trying to survive! They're like rats and probably 80% of em shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves treemen!!

Why are you helping the enemy dano??


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## tree md (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm not sure who it is that has been bidding against me but twice in the past 2 weeks I've had clients tell me that they chose me over another service... Both times my price was higher. Not sure who some of these guys are but they must be some real yo yo's. :yoyo:


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## tree MDS (Jul 16, 2011)

tree md said:


> I'm not sure who it is that has been bidding against me but twice in the past 2 weeks I've had clients tell me that they chose me over another service... Both times my price was higher. Not sure who some of these guys are but they must be some real yo yo's. :yoyo:


 
Don't you love it when you look at the job, quote it, the customer says the price sounds reasonable, and they'll get back to you. Then some ####ing moron goes in there and litterally drives the market into the dirt with his low-ball bid! These people just don't understand and they'll probably never survive the long term, but we have to somehow survive them! That's our burden. Hell, I'm even starting to do it myself now... I gotta survive, and I didn't get this far to die now... ####ers!


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## tree md (Jul 16, 2011)

With the economy the way it is and the amount of people out of work the price of everything has gone down. Hell the pizza joints are selling large pizzas for half of what they used to go for. I am getting about a third less on my jobs than I was 3 years ago before everything really tanked. Back home I can still get premium prices (read fair and reasonable) through referrals and repeat business but here I am having to bump and grind with the morons with wild things. Storms like this seem to turn everyone into a tree expert. I mean, if you could see some of the bids I have come in behind you would laugh. Had one a couple of months back: Large dead Oak that was killed by the previous pruning 8 months earlier, 4' DBH, right over house and pool, 20x40 or so drop zone, no access, every piece would have to come through the garage (36" back door). I bid it for 33 with a crane and pick it over the house. Two guys bid before me. One bid 22 to remove the whole tree and carry it out through the garage. One guy bid it at 14 and leave the trunk. The guy told me he would rather go with me and the crane if I could do it for 3K.


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## treeman82 (Jul 16, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> I've been thinking lately that there should be (in a perfect world) a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to start a tree business. It would involve actually climbing and manually taking down a big assed tree in a nasty spot.. and I mean a bad one! There could be some sort of point system that seasoned treemen would score maybe..
> 
> I'm sick of it too... my area has become so saturated with tree companies, that now that I have all this crap in the yard, it's like I'm making less than ever and just trying to survive! They're like rats and probably 80% of em shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves treemen!!



On the bright side, we do have the arborist license law. Though I am in agreement with you on the physical test... just talked with a guy yesterday whose brother in law got killed about a month ago on a tree job. It was his own company, so thankfully he wasn't working for some piece of crap who had never climbed before... I hate those types.


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## tree MDS (Jul 16, 2011)

treeman82 said:


> On the bright side, we do have the arborist license law. Though I am in agreement with you on the physical test... just talked with a guy yesterday whose brother in law got killed about a month ago on a tree job. It was his own company, so thankfully he wasn't working for some piece of crap who had never climbed before... I hate those types.



Yeah, but I'm sure you got know nothing butchers with arborist licenses over your way too. It's just a test after all. I sent my old lady for the test years ago, while I was busy doing treework! Lol.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 16, 2011)

The guy said a third less than what he was making three yrs ago. Makes me think the middle class may wash out into a huge lower class society. Then it will be back to the good days for sure, boys. That means hand saws and hemp roaps. ;-)


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 16, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> The guy said a third less than what he was making three yrs ago. Makes me think the middle class may wash out into a huge lower class society. Then it will be back to the good days for sure, boys. That means hand saws and hemp roaps. ;-)


 
Ya know FTA, it is kinda hard to figure out what you are trying to say and what you say. I think if you stepped back and read what you wrote, you would see that that you just confirmed what I said. In this economy, HO's are seeking the low bid. The biz is saturated with wannabe's and un-employed guy's with a truck and saw. If that is your market and they are your competitor's, then that is the bed you made. You live here in San Diego. Look at all those new names on trucks on the freeway!!
I saw a truck that advertised house painting and tree trimming. 
Bottom line,
If you market yourself in that arena, then deal with it!
Otherwise, Put yourself above them and they cannot even bid on the same job. 
I know you are not going to take my advice, but, I am gonna give it anyway.
You are serious enough so I would put an ad on Craigs and hire a seasoned local,long time climber that is looking to get guaranteed 40 a week and let him run the show. Then shut up and listen to him! 
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 16, 2011)

What do you know? Thats exactly what i was going to do?


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 16, 2011)

...but then again jan the man could say something about that. He dont like them old men. He said theyre too windy and trip n fall too much for him. Cant even tie their shoes. So, i guess ill look else where.


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## treemandan (Jul 16, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> I've been thinking lately that there should be (in a perfect world) a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to start a tree business. It would involve actually climbing and manually taking down a big assed tree in a nasty spot.. and I mean a bad one! There could be some sort of point system that seasoned treemen would score maybe..
> 
> I'm sick of it too... my area has become so saturated with tree companies, that now that I have all this crap in the yard, it's like I'm making less than ever and just trying to survive! They're like rats and probably 80% of em shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves treemen!!
> 
> Why are you helping the enemy dano??


 
Why? I don't know. 

You made a comment of these old guys just the other day though some of these kids think they are Paul Bunyan right out the box. My number is still at a few saw shops from years ago, I get a call everyonce in awhile from someone new. I used to like being a sub but more and more it seems that less and less people know what they are doing and just think they can hire " a climber" so they can say " I will have to get 'my climber' to look at it before I give you a price maam." ISA sure enables the deuche bags. I didn't need any of that to make my mark.
Hell, I've been naming my own price for so long and don't know how to name anybody elses.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 16, 2011)

There are more than two ways to pet a cat and no way to pet an old man unless maybe its with sum big numbers.

Im sure if i were a senior in route of the tree snippy circuit and unto the bank, i would not give one samb if that "whats his face" said i oughta do this or that. You see, you may know my own face and see an eager smile, but in my business you can sit, roll over, or jump...whatever they trained you to do so long as its not in my business. 

The thing i gather about old business is old business is own business so long as its successful business. So step off sucka. ;-)


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## Tree Pig (Jul 16, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> There are more than two ways to pet a cat and no way to pet an old man unless maybe its with sum big numbers.
> 
> Im sure if i were a senior in route of the tree snippy circuit and unto the bank, i would not give one samb if that "whats his face" said i oughta do this or that. You see, you may know my own face and see an eager smile, but in my business you can sit, roll over, or jump...whatever they trained you to do so long as its not in my business.
> 
> The thing i gather about old business is old business is own business so long as its successful business. So step off sucka. ;-)


 
holy crap what the heck did you just say?


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## VA-Sawyer (Jul 17, 2011)

It's that new language.........Crapofornia! 

We used to call it "diearrea of the mouth and constipation of the brain".


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 17, 2011)

Come on. You guys arent that dumb. Its ok if you are though. 

The main point that should be made is if a guy wants to start a business, then he may do so legally. No one needs to care if any jack rabbit such as the op gets his underwear bunched up about it. 

I thought this thread was lousy.

My pops worked in a sherwood factory for 30 years, and retired in the ozarks on 360 acres. He proceeded to begin a landscaping co. He has a lot more saws than i do and a lot more heavy equipment. Lots more. He also has a 7 year contract with the state to produce a recreation trail through the woods. 

My point is that old buggers or highschool drop outs can figure this crap out the same. They can figure out if youre going to be a problem with the way their businesses are going to run. They dont even care if you think twice about them or not imo. I know many seniors. They all seem to be of a certain altitude if you catch my drift.


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## treemandan (Jul 17, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> There are more than two ways to pet a cat and no way to pet an old man unless maybe its with sum big numbers.
> 
> Im sure if i were a senior in route of the tree snippy circuit and unto the bank, i would not give one samb if that "whats his face" said i oughta do this or that. You see, you may know my own face and see an eager smile, but in my business you can sit, roll over, or jump...whatever they trained you to do so long as its not in my business.
> 
> The thing i gather about old business is old business is own business so long as its successful business. So step off sucka. ;-)


 
Now you are petting old men? Yeah, I have no idea what you are talking about either and neither do you. Step off? What? Are you even on?


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## treemandan (Jul 17, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> Come on. You guys arent that dumb. Its ok if you are though.
> 
> The main point that should be made is if a guy wants to start a business, then he may do so legally. No one needs to care if any jack rabbit such as the op gets his underwear bunched up about it.
> 
> ...




If I were you I would shut up and do what your pops did then. You can't do this work, neither could he. If you, your pops or the last yack I met could then we would not even be having this conversation. Now run along and play tree company owner.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 17, 2011)

Like im in a forum to give a cross hair about what youre doing with your keyboard before you click on submit this post. Youre a rube. You idolize some arbor men, and you think you have a must be or just aint arbor brand in youre brain because youre heroes said it is so. Theyre all dropouts though. I dont care about dropping out. Im a big shot though. ;-)

From where i sit youre a rube. If you werent, then what are these small minded problems you keep getting caught up on. Really i must be playing table soccer on my desk with youre great, legendary mind and two pencils. Never mind. Its just a greeen pea. 
Now wriggle youre lil saw throttle finger on the keyboard, peck out a widle message, and grunt harder from now on because you still havent moved a hair on me, kid. 

Yer fired ;-) Git off da lot, jan.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 17, 2011)

Ad dan, based on the rep you leave on the AS board, ill be patting your grave before you can figure out what to thrown on mine. 

"Yuck, yuck, yuck, git the camry, AS buddys, n take a pritty lil picher of me. I might jist fall out a tree soon.". Well, thats only what you say anyway, kiddo.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 17, 2011)

WTF!?
Hope you don't home school!
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 17, 2011)

I respect youre dedication to the boards here, jiff. Now send me a pic of my free, used boom lift you have sitting around. ;-)


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 17, 2011)

*Lol! Ok!*

View attachment 191029


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## tree md (Jul 17, 2011)

You guys must be smoking some good chit in California...


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 17, 2011)

So leff, whats the catch?


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## newsawtooth (Jul 18, 2011)

treemandan said:


> You made a comment of these old guys just the other day though some of these kids think they are Paul Bunyan right out the box.


 
Here is a shot of Paul Bunyan/ Yvon Chouinard's love child taking his first tentative steps into the canopy...

View attachment 191124



FTA ya big galoot, how's tricks?


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 18, 2011)

Not so tricky now. ;-)


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 18, 2011)

?? You OK?
Jeff :msp_confused:


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 18, 2011)

And who are you?


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 18, 2011)

*My buddy Joe met you, Ha ha!*

‪The Who - Who Are You?‬&rlm; - YouTube[video=youtube;PdLIerfXuZ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLIerfXuZ4[/video]
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 18, 2011)

I hope I dont get too friendly with you because I always bail my buds out. You be careful there, Goob! 
Jeff :confused2:


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 18, 2011)

You were asking him alot of questions, and seemed really green. You were there right?, In El Cajon or nearby when you met him at lunch. He is not my competition but you maybe biting into his. Pisses me off!

Jeff


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## tree md (Jul 18, 2011)

Speaking of old dudes, ever have to deal with this customer??? LOL

http://youtu.be/q2uykzsoPe4


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 18, 2011)

tree md said:


> Speaking of old dudes, ever have to deal with this customer??? LOL
> 
> ‪Revised Language - Flo Tries to Decipher Customer's Mumbo Jumbo‬&rlm; - YouTube


 
Promoting one self is frowned upon!!!!
Jeff :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 19, 2011)

Ive never been that green with anyone in my life. Nope, no joes.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 19, 2011)

And ill tell you this. That ol man shopper is more like me than you know. ;-) hehehe


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## Cedar Ed (Jul 19, 2011)

newsawtooth said:


> Here is a shot of Paul Bunyan/ Yvon Chouinard's love child taking his first tentative steps into the canopy...
> 
> View attachment 191124
> 
> ...


 
The most unsafe climber.


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## tree MDS (Jul 19, 2011)

newsawtooth said:


> Here is a shot of Paul Bunyan/ Yvon Chouinard's love child taking his first tentative steps into the canopy...
> 
> View attachment 191124
> 
> ...


 
Hahaha. Looks prime for a pole section beatdown!! 

I think that's the guy I see at the gas station in the morning, pissing me off with his sweat suit and scratch tickets...


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## chad556 (Jul 19, 2011)

newsawtooth said:


> Here is a shot of Paul Bunyan/ Yvon Chouinard's love child taking his first tentative steps into the canopy...
> 
> View attachment 191124
> 
> ...


 
Ahhh, the one and only AA. Did he finally get driven off?


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## the Aerialist (Jul 20, 2011)

*Still standing, just taller now ...*



chad556 said:


> Ahhh, the one and only AA. Did he finally get driven off?



Nah, I'm still standing, and the ice axes didn't really work out. I thought they would get me up a tree like a squirrel with a bottle rocket up his ass. I could set them in good wood enough to hold my weight one handed, it was getting them out that was the problem. Maybe I'll try the tip rope gave by waxing them up first. I still have them, but use them now for digging around stumps.

I've matured a bit since then. I guess to be honest I'm an adrenaline junky and tree work gives me the same thrill that I used to get from skydiving and aerobatic flying. I sold my last airplane and had more money than sense when I decided to get into this. It was that or golf to pass away my golden years.

I figured this tree work thing isn't rocket science (_I was an Aerospace Technology major in college_) I can do this. And you know, despite all the nay sayers here and elsewhere I was right. In my life I've been in a lot of dangerous and tricky places. I was getting fat and bored with nothing to do so I took the plunge as I always have.

When I was in the life I took on many roles and lived by my wits. I've been a Priest, my specialty was as a confessor, a soft one. Pity the people that did't confess their sins to me, because the next guy they'd meet had much sterner methods. I even performed a few marriages, and too many last rites. Missionary work can be exciting, like you wouldn't believe.

People love me or hate me, it's always been that way. I don't know if I'm blessed or just lucky. I hope it's the former because in my experience luck can turn on you if you're not careful. Most of you would like me if you met me I'm sure because I'm really a sweet sensitive guy.

I know I've gotten hot and abrasive here but at my age I don't take much sh*t anymore. I'm going to try to be nice now and not respond to the flames I create. If anyone has issues with me take it to a PM or come visit me and we'll talk. I'm planning on another parachute jump or two next Summer on my 65th birthday or there abouts. I've extended the invitation to make it an AS get together so we can all take a flying leap together. Any takers?


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## treemandan (Jul 20, 2011)

Aerial Arborist said:


> Nah, I'm still standing, and the ice axes didn't really work out. I thought they would get me up a tree like a squirrel with a bottle rocket up his ass. I could set them in good wood enough to hold my weight one handed, it was getting them out that was the problem. Maybe I'll try the tip rope gave by waxing them up first. I still have them, but use them now for digging around stumps.
> 
> I've matured a bit since then. I guess to be honest I'm an adrenaline junky and tree work gives me the same thrill that I used to get from skydiving and aerobatic flying. I sold my last airplane and had more money than sense when I decided to get into this. It was that or golf to pass away my golden years.
> 
> ...



yeah, I hear ya pops... over the sound of FTA mouth farting. Give em Hell and all, at least you go out and do the work. I would probably do some work with you, I mean you are crazy and can move quick, just don't be tryin to involve me in some real ####ey do BS with a lawnmower.I can't be on a job were people are goofing around with that sort of yackassery when then should be paying full attention to me telling them how it gonna go down. Hey, its not like I am egomanic, I listen and heed when others have ideas, well as long as they are mot stupit ideas, or even ones I have tried and know don't work. If I get into a debate over something like that I feel like just killing myself cause of the pain it will cause me. I would just hate for it to go south because you and your people would get all flustered with me around. When it comes to business I know all the angles and in the feild I play them so well most people fall behind getting caught up thinking about things other than the job. Maybe some one would ask a real stupid questions which would make me nervous thinking that I have to hold their hand and step by step them through the job. Hey, if I did it their way it would take forever, probably be unsafe and for me to just take time from I need to do on the job to answer any type of questions besides " are you ready?" would send me running for tranquilizers. And ,BOY, if you say you are ready and you are not ( oh, I will know who and what is ready) then you probably should just run because NOBODY like what comes next. Nobody, especially me. You get me right? You know I can read minds too right? Does everybody know I can do that? There are people in this business who claim mind reading is impossible. Well, I am a ####ing clairvoyant EEEEEEEEYUUUUUUUUP!!! 

Fta is still reading books on tree work so he can find someone he can make do it for him. He feels talking about treework is the same as doing it. He likes to hear how it sounds when he uses tree work terminology and after such a short time he feels he can adpot this way of being and sounding as truly his own. And why not? There are so many others in this world who are full of crap why couldn't he be too? 

The bottom line is drawn under the book math he does and he knows it don't add up... for him. Why? Oh its simple, he is weakblooded. I see weakblooded people all the time, they are usually nice to me, they kinda have no choice. Its either that or just leave me alone. But they feel they need me so bad they are nice and pay the price. I guess I just have come to the point where I realized just how many people there are blow me, yes FTA blow me. You wanna walk around and act, I walk around but its not an act.

Sometimes a weakblooded person thinks he is right to indenitfy me as the same as him and it just does not work out

When I get into converations and do things with people who don't have weakblood and have no games to play there are not many problems to deal with, just the job, then its easy as pie. People often disguise their weakblood doing what FTA does, its getting easier to spot and easier to say no to because now I am at such a great stature I really do not need or appreciate the BS. But thanks anyway! Now I am gonna go masterbate while I think about the 27 year old babysister we just hired. I could do her if I wanted, really, just like that and I do things, all types, all the time. But I wouldn't do that... even though I could. It is I who is The Dan, yer not.

Seriously, this one is all over me. She's getting real close and making long eye contact, then that thing she did with the beer bottle blew me away. Maybe I should go ahead and bang her cause I think we really need a new babysitter. ####, 20 years of tree work and twenty years of marriage! I am about ready to give it all to FTA. At least then he will know.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 20, 2011)

*You are unique as a snowflake...*



treemandan said:


> yeah, I hear ya pops... Sometimes a weakblooded person thinks he is right to indenitfy me as the same as him and it just does not work out... It is I who is The Dan, yer not...


 
The Dan, you are as unique as a snowflake, as are we all. As for the rest of your post, I'm going to have to study it some more but I think I get your drift.


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## treemandan (Jul 20, 2011)

Aerial Arborist said:


> The Dan, you are as unique as a snowflake, as are we all. As for the rest of your post, I'm going to have to study it some more but I think I get your drift.


 
You actually look pretty good. How long did you say you have been doing this? I dunno, ain't to many guys got what it takes to get up there and get it down... especially at yer age


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## tree md (Jul 20, 2011)

In all reality, It's not even just the old dudes. It's all the duds (and I do mean duds) who cut a little bit of firewood, drop a tree or two, then decide they are going to buy a bucket and go into the tree industry (notice I did not say tree care industry). Hey, it's a free country and folks can do what they like. In turn, we can call them out and tell them what ####ed up hacks they really are. Or like the Dan, tell them their hearts pump pure cool-aid... Most won't be around long anyway... How many do you see still in business and posting here after 10 years... Or even 5 years...


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## tree md (Jul 20, 2011)

Hell, I'm an old dude... If I could find a young dude that could do what I do I'd let him do it... Thus far I have found no one that can...


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2011)

treemandan said:


> yeah, I hear ya pops... over the sound of FTA mouth farting. Give em Hell and all, at least you go out and do the work. I would probably do some work with you, I mean you are crazy and can move quick, just don't be tryin to involve me in some real ####ey do BS with a lawnmower.I can't be on a job were people are goofing around with that sort of yackassery when then should be paying full attention to me telling them how it gonna go down. Hey, its not like I am egomanic, I listen and heed when others have ideas, well as long as they are mot stupit ideas, or even ones I have tried and know don't work. If I get into a debate over something like that I feel like just killing myself cause of the pain it will cause me. I would just hate for it to go south because you and your people would get all flustered with me around. When it comes to business I know all the angles and in the feild I play them so well most people fall behind getting caught up thinking about things other than the job. Maybe some one would ask a real stupid questions which would make me nervous thinking that I have to hold their hand and step by step them through the job. Hey, if I did it their way it would take forever, probably be unsafe and for me to just take time from I need to do on the job to answer any type of questions besides " are you ready?" would send me running for tranquilizers. And ,BOY, if you say you are ready and you are not ( oh, I will know who and what is ready) then you probably should just run because NOBODY like what comes next. Nobody, especially me. You get me right? You know I can read minds too right? Does everybody know I can do that? There are people in this business who claim mind reading is impossible. Well, I am a ####ing clairvoyant EEEEEEEEYUUUUUUUUP!!!
> 
> Fta is still reading books on tree work so he can find someone he can make do it for him. He feels talking about treework is the same as doing it. He likes to hear how it sounds when he uses tree work terminology and after such a short time he feels he can adpot this way of being and sounding as truly his own. And why not? There are so many others in this world who are full of crap why couldn't he be too?
> 
> ...


 
pain meds from the op? better watch out....they can make you older than an old man :help:


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## the Aerialist (Jul 20, 2011)

*Four Decades since I first climbed trees with gear...*



treemandan said:


> You actually look pretty good. How long did you say you have been doing this? I dunno, ain't to many guys got what it takes to get up there and get it down... especially at yer age



I'll recap what I posted in the disappeared thread: In the early '70s I was skydiving and the jump pilot at a drop zone created out of a pasture and old farmhouse. It was all about giving people who dared a one day course in how to make a static line parachute jump using surplus Army T-10 parachutes. These rookies landed everywhere, and many times in trees.

I bought a set of old pole gaffs and rescued the people and the parachutes. The 'chutes were harder because they often became entangled in the canopy. I climbed a lot of trees doing this, the technique I used was a kid with spikes. I did know rope work as I was a parachute rigger but a lot of it was freestyling.

I friend had a landscape business and he called me for removals, but nothing real big or serious. and by no means full time as I was busy with other things. A lot of it was getting a pull rope on it and using a truck. This was out in the country and there was usually plenty of space.

About five years ago I hooked up with a climber and he got me a job as a groundie with the company he worked for I became his ropeman and watched and learned from him. Totally old school, but a daring and very talented climber. I learned a lot and bought gear because i could see where all the fun was. 

We became partners in doing side work and when that dissolved (amicably) I started Aerial Arborist Tree Service doing all my own climbing. I did contract work for a couple of companies and pulled it off, but they were not a good fit for me and I focused on my own business. It was a slow start but has finally pulled together the last two years have been great.

My familiarity with computers is what put my footprint on the "cloud" and got me work. I could do a lot more with the marketing and have twice as much work, but doing it all, I have had to juggle the work with the estimates (I call them "evaluations") and can easily overbook my ability to get the work done. So I cherry pick my customers, looking for the difficult and dangerous trees where both the challenge and money is the highest.

On my wall as I type this is a photo poster of a guy climbing an ice waterfall with no ropes in sight, just ice axes and pitons. The caption is:

*ACHIEVEMENT*

"_In life you should not pursue goals that are easily achieved, develop an instinct for what can only just be achieved through your greatest efforts._"

I have put my greatest effort into this climbing thing. It satisfies me that I have become a success at this in such a short time. It's been a supreme challenge for me at this stage of life Being my own boss gives me the opportunity to do it my way at my pace, a pace most couldn't keep up with. By that I mean turning a shoestring operation into a thriving business. In the tree I am not that fast, but I don't try to be. I've hired climbers (one from this forum) and I could probably make more money by letting others do the work but I love the climbing and stubbornly hang in there.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 20, 2011)

*I'm looking for a few good men...*



tree md said:


> Hell, I'm an old dude... If I could find a young dude that could do what I do I'd let him do it... Thus far I have found no one that can...



I have often said that I am looking for a man half my age and half as good as me. Now I'm looking for a man a third my age and twice as good as me.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2011)

yawn


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## oldirty (Jul 20, 2011)

treevet said:


> yawn


 
this guy sucks. i mean really suhucks. i know i throw the term around real loosely but to sit here and listen to his bs (which may fool people not in the game) just isn't cool. it's about as cool as aids.

i think that pic of him with ice picks should be his avatar though.... him getting the angie's list bs is heartbreaking to me as well. i've been part of a super duper angie list award for the past 3 yrs and i knooooooooow the difference between the way i play the game and the way he plays the game are in 2 completely different worlds as far as professionalism, knowledge, results, effort and skill go. 

i don't know.... he kinda kill'n the climber's forum here. it's like one of the firewood boys here got all fired up and went off on his own, grinding out a living with the steiner and decided to mosey on over to this side of the site. knowing it all as he goes.....

yawn indeed.


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## mattfr12 (Jul 21, 2011)

Aerial Arborist said:


> I have often said that I am looking for a man half my age and half as good as me. Now I'm looking for a man a third my age and twice as good as me.


 
i was looking at your website and i came across that your in imperial pa. my inlaws live in imperial and im in mcdonald less than 10 min from you. i climbed for bartlett for a few years back in the day and they where also based in imperial and still are on santiago road. ive ran my own show for around 7 years now based out of mcdonald. got a crane sitting down on kennedy road for tomorrows removal. if your know the area stop by some time i thought i knew just about everyone in the game around here.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 21, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> i was looking at your website and i came across that your in imperial pa. my inlaws live in imperial and im in mcdonald less than 10 min from you. i climbed for bartlett for a few years back in the day and they where also based in imperial and still are on santiago road. ive ran my own show for around 7 years now based out of mcdonald. got a crane sitting down on kennedy road for tomorrows removal. if your know the area stop by some time i thought i knew just about everyone in the game around here.


 
Interesting


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 21, 2011)

tree md said:


> Hell, I'm an old dude... If I could find a young dude that could do what I do I'd let him do it... Thus far I have found no one that can...


 
That is so true, I am in the same boat, every time I think I have found some one, they go and do something, to make me fire them!


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## treevet (Jul 21, 2011)

age is chronological, old is relative


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## treemandan (Jul 21, 2011)

treevet said:


> pain meds from the op? better watch out....they can make you older than an old man :help:


 
Its a figure of speach... son:msp_rolleyes: But I got ya.


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## treemandan (Jul 21, 2011)

oldirty said:


> this guy sucks. i mean really suhucks. i know i throw the term around real loosely but to sit here and listen to his bs (which may fool people not in the game) just isn't cool. it's about as cool as aids.
> 
> i think that pic of him with ice picks should be his avatar though.... him getting the angie's list bs is heartbreaking to me as well. i've been part of a super duper angie list award for the past 3 yrs and i knooooooooow the difference between the way i play the game and the way he plays the game are in 2 completely different worlds as far as professionalism, knowledge, results, effort and skill go.
> 
> ...




I was 19 when I rappelled over the rim of The Canyon with only a rope. We all did, and we had sofas, beer and tons of drugs. We were camping in a rather spacious cave just north of Flagstaff. I have been detained for climbing the Philly Art Museum, when we were 6 my brother and I would climb out on Billy Penn's hand way atop City Hall. I would have killed for a nice set of ice picks like that. I am still only forty but would scare the Hell out of you J.


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## Garden Of Eden (Jul 21, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> That is so true, I am in the same boat, every time I think I have found some one, they go and do something, to make me fire them!


 
I wish there was a 'love' button. Like isn't strong enough. Every time I find someone I think I can trust on the ground, I get f-ed. I do have an ace in the hole however. He's only 21, strong as hell, and will work like a hebrew slave. Problem, he's slow as molasses, and not just with his feet. If the temp is above 85, he's almost impossible to motivate. lol I love him like a brother though, so, what can ya do?

Jeff


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## Garden Of Eden (Jul 21, 2011)

treemandan said:


> I was 19 when I rappelled over the rim of The Canyon with only a rope. We all did, and we had sofas, beer and tons of drugs. We were camping in a rather spacious cave just north of Flagstaff. I have been detained for climbing the Philly Art Museum, when we were 6 my brother and I would climb out on Billy Penn's hand way atop City Hall. I would have killed for a nice set of ice picks like that. I am still only forty but would scare the Hell out of you J.


 
Oh, how I envy The Dan on this day. I LOVE climbing that kind of stuff.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 21, 2011)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I do have an ace in the hole however. He's only 21, strong as hell, and will work like a hebrew slave. lol I love him like a brother though, so, what can ya do?
> 
> Jeff


 
The Hebrew's were slave's for some time. If you castrate him he might stay as long as you don't remove the collar!
Jeff


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## tree md (Jul 21, 2011)

When I was 21 I got detained for climbing out to the very tip of these falls:

Georgia State Parks - Amicalola Falls State Park and Lodge

Kind of a funny story. I was out there with the 38 YO guy who was teaching me to climb at the time. People could see us on the falls from the state park below and I could see a couple videoing us. I knew it was a matter of time before the rangers showed up as we had to cross a barricade to get out there. I waved to the folks below and hightailed it out of there hopping up 4 or 5 ledges to go out from the top side. As I was leaving I saw the rangers coming through the woods and just stayed motionless until they passed so they wouldn't see me and then continued on my way after they passed. Curiosity got the better of me when my boss did not come along behind me so I went to see what was up, worrying that he might have fell. LOL I walked up on a rescue team hauling my boss up from the ledges in a life basket... hehehehe. They did not see me coming up from behind and I asked them what's up guys. They like to have jumped out of their skins. They started screaming for me to get back, get back... I didn't dare tell them that I had just scrambled up those ledges in a matter of about 2 minutes. Those rescue types always blow #### so far out of proportion... 

Anyway they hauled my boss up the side of the mountain in a life basket and detained us both. They could not prove a thing on me as they had not caught me in the act but told me they knew I was the other one out there. My boss got a ticket and never lived the experience down


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## Garden Of Eden (Jul 21, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> The Hebrew's were slave's for some time. If you castrate him he might stay as long as you don't remove the collar!
> Jeff


 
Your humor is right up my alley. What's more, he's black. lol It's a riot. I work him like a slave when he works, because it's not too often that he does work. Once he's going, you don't wanna shut him off. He's almost perfect. He's a good solid christian, doesn't drink, smoke, chew, cuss, or anything else that could be offensive to customers. He's a real good friend, just don't wanna work too much. I wish I could motivate him more. I've tried everything I can think of too.


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## treemandan (Jul 21, 2011)

tree md said:


> When I was 21 I got detained for climbing out to the very tip of these falls:
> 
> Georgia State Parks - Amicalola Falls State Park and Lodge
> 
> ...


 
I got kicked outta the ranger corps. They caught on to my agenda, I kinda wish I had more self control.


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## treemandan (Jul 21, 2011)

I guess I now know the answer to my question. I guess I've always know. I don't whether to laugh or cry.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 21, 2011)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Your humor is right up my alley. I've tried everything I can think of too.



Have you pulled him aside and told him what you just told me and us all? Did you? No? Pull him aside and have a talk! 
Jeff


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## tree md (Jul 21, 2011)

Young punks spillin' beer on my shoes, fat guys talking to me tryin' to steal my blues...


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## treevet (Jul 21, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Have you pulled him aside and told him what you just told me and us all? Did you? No? Pull him aside and have a talk!
> Jeff


 
If not....cattle prod?

My GM is the best ever lived. All you mention plus he div 1 all state tight end, strong as an ox, never gets tired, likes to bust it out like me, sober, ops crano, stumper, fixes anything, good pruner, lowering, td's, smart as a whip, very good and polite with ho's, Certified Arb, CDL license, Ohio pesticide license., my company is his company and he cares....could go on forever

and we're good friends


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 21, 2011)

tree md said:


> Young punks spillin' beer on my shoes, fat guys talking to me tryin' to steal my blues...


 
Now record that and put it up,rapper! 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 21, 2011)

treevet said:


> If not....cattle prod?
> 
> My GM is the best ever lived. All you mention plus he div 1 all state tight end, strong as an ox, never gets tired, likes to bust it out like me, sober, ops crano, stumper, fixes anything, good pruner, lowering, td's, smart as a whip, very good and polite with ho's, Certified Arb, CDL license, Ohio pesticide license., my company is his company and he cares....could go on forever
> 
> and we're good friends


 
Dang! You are in LOVE! Messing with ya-TV!
Jeff


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## treemandan (Jul 21, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Have you pulled him aside and told him what you just told me and us all? Did you? No? Pull him aside and have a talk!
> Jeff


 
I dunno, even though I am not a lazy black Hebrew Christian and someone said to me what Eden just said I think I would kick that person in the ####.


And ####! One reason I chose to do tree work is for the cussing.


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## treevet (Jul 21, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang! You are in LOVE! Messing with ya-TV!
> Jeff


 
I gots my gm....you gots your turtle


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## the Aerialist (Jul 22, 2011)

*Hey I can walk through the woods and be on Kennedy road in 20 minutes...*



mattfr12 said:


> i was looking at your website and i came across that your in imperial pa. my inlaws live in imperial and im in mcdonald less than 10 min from you. i climbed for bartlett for a few years back in the day and they where also based in imperial and still are on santiago road. ive ran my own show for around 7 years now based out of mcdonald. got a crane sitting down on kennedy road for tomorrows removal. if your know the area stop by some time i thought i knew just about everyone in the game around here.



Hey what time you gonna start this morning? I'll come look you up. Is your removal on Kennedy? I'm on North Star just off of Santiago right after the tunnel under the Montour Trail. Let's hook up today if we can. Call me my number's on the web site. Or just drive around the "block" this rig is still parked in front of my place with the dump in the lot next to it, kinda hard to miss.







I'm doing some maintenance this morning so I'll be around getting ready for an afternoon brush clearing job. Stop by when you roll out of Kennedy if that's not where you're working today.

Sent you a PM with my number, Call when you get there or drive around the block on your way in... I've got a job for your crane right in my backyard ~ the dead tree I'm hanging off of with my ice axes.






I just rode around the block on my thumper and didn't see your crane. I was gonna put a note on the windshield to call me. Don't drive anything big onto North Star from the tunnel end, come in off of 30 if you decide to stop by and say hello.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 22, 2011)

treemandan said:


> ... I would have killed for a nice set of ice picks like that. I am still only forty but would scare the Hell out of you J.



I paid $164 for the pair on eBay. and the idea of using them as intended scares the hell out of me now. Wood is a better hold for them than ice. Now those guys are crazy!


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 23, 2011)

I went to yosemite a while back and hiked 8 miles up the river to see the waterfalls. One fall is 300+ ft, and the Emerald Pool is right above it before it goes between some boulders and falls over.

I just heard about 3 people falling over that one and dieing. One fell off of the boulders, and the others tried rescuing, but they fell in too. 

I had the notion when I was hopping out to the middle on those boulders that I was doing something only people with trained minds and bodies of years could do. I thought no way would I ever let anyone I know follow me out there. No way. I went out there for the action and to get some photos of the pool at the angle. But I was walking the edges of the falls, hanging feet over, and taking photos over the very lips of these things. This guy is a king in those mountains n trees not a pet. No doubts about that area of business.

And so once they slipped off of those rocks, the under tow and currents were so rigid it would have been like a loosing fight to a pack of raging elephants. 

I don't feel lucky one bit. I got it..... and Dan gots it. Only other person too. It's something because we're just going to die with ti. :rolleyes2:


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## beastmaster (Jul 23, 2011)

This whole thread kind of confuses me. Its like a pissing contest, but some of the contestants haven't had no beer. I'm an old dude, but none of this is new to me. I was hell on wheels as a youngster too. I have worked as a crew leader on many a fire crew when I was young. I repossessed cars for a few years in south central L.A. Calif. Been doing trees for close to 30 years, I Ocean kayak fish by my self for big game fish including sharks as big as my kayak, often going many miles out to sea. I work for a airplane recovery companys, when a plane slams the side of a mountain 8000ft up on the side of a cliff, I get helocoptered in and then repell and climb to recover the wreckage, and the occasional body parts.
We can argue who is better, but I still do the most dangerous and difficult removals the company's I work for get. At 53 most guys half my age can't hang with me, with is sad cuz I'm not what I use to be.
My point of this is not to toot my own horn, none of it is a big deal to me, but my whole life people have talked a good game, but when its got real, and the cards were laid out not many have stayed in the game. It all fun and games tell the going get real, to the point of life or death or possible injury and most people fold like a house of cards. Been seeing it my whole life. Not even nothen wrong with it, thats normal, Some times it'll suprise you who folds and who don't, but most the time you know. And I think I can spot a Poser at 100 yards(and I ware glasses now) and I think there are a couple on this thread. Better to be humble, learn and be thankful there are those who are better then you, you might need them some day. By better I mean professional tree care. we all have gifts in other areas. Beastmaster


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## treevet (Jul 24, 2011)

*tit*



beastmaster said:


> This whole thread kind of confuses me. Its like a pissing contest, but some of the contestants haven't had no beer. I'm an old dude, but none of this is new to me. I was hell on wheels as a youngster too. I have worked as a crew leader on many a fire crew when I was young. I repossessed cars for a few years in south central L.A. Calif. Been doing trees for close to 30 years, I Ocean kayak fish by my self for big game fish including sharks as big as my kayak, often going many miles out to sea. I work for a airplane recovery companys, when a plane slams the side of a mountain 8000ft up on the side of a cliff, I get helocoptered in and then repell and climb to recover the wreckage, and the occasional body parts.
> We can argue who is better, but I still do the most dangerous and difficult removals the company's I work for get. At 53 most guys half my age can't hang with me, with is sad cuz I'm not what I use to be.
> My point of this is not to toot my own horn, none of it is a big deal to me, but my whole life people have talked a good game, but when its got real, and the cards were laid out not many have stayed in the game. It all fun and games tell the going get real, to the point of life or death or possible injury and most people fold like a house of cards. Been seeing it my whole life. Not even nothen wrong with it, thats normal, Some times it'll suprise you who folds and who don't, but most the time you know. And I think I can spot a Poser at 100 yards(and I ware glasses now) and I think there are a couple on this thread. Better to be humble, learn and be thankful there are those who are better then you, you might need them some day. By better I mean professional tree care. we all have gifts in other areas. Beastmaster


 
Sounds a little like horn tootin and distance pissin but that's ok....seems a challenge laid down, just the stupid title of this thread. IMO if you are an "old dude" and you been doin all aspects of tree work properly and never turned down a job because of danger or difficulty (like me, and you it seems) for all those years that got you old and you still doing it....then "what's up wit ya" is you are probably superior to the "dude" that ain't old that started this thread.....just as I said, my opinion.

As far as your reference to "professional tree care" it is way more than just doing the most dangerous jobs and td's....look to ANSI A300 Standard and its associated documents, easily and inexpensively obtained to get the necessary knowledge. Now that takes smarts....and balls.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 24, 2011)

Dang Dave, It's gotta be like going on mid-nite there!
Jeff:msp_ohmy:


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## treevet (Jul 24, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang Dave, It's gotta be like going on mid-nite there!
> Jeff:msp_ohmy:


 
ya don't sleep that good when ya get old. I usually lift a little weights and watch tv and as til about now.


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