# ECHO Chainsaws - are they catching on?!



## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

Hey there, everyone. I know when a lot of us see the name "ECHO" anywhere - we almost immediately dismiss it, and give it no second thoughts. I was the same way - before today.

I just got back from a buddy's ranch up north, and mind you I have known this guy my entire life. He's a chainsaw guy - just like us. We both grew up using Stihls, Huskys and MAC exclusively. In any event - I was up there helping him chop some wood for his wood burning stove and fireplace, because he broke his hand a few days ago. When I went out to the barn to grab a saw, I spotted a brand new ECHO CS-600P. I was shocked. I mean, SHOCKED. I looked around, and I didn't see not one single Stihl or Husky anywhere. I was thinking to myself "Ya...ok. This is bull****." I had my MAC 380, so I wasn't too worried, but I was just taken back. I asked him "What the hell is this thing?!" He replied "The new age of saws, buddy - just try it out before you run over it in your truck. Twice." He knows me too well....

OK, folks - here's the dilly: this CS-600P was amazing. It cut like an animal, sounded beautiful on the idle, and the gas consumption seemed nice n' easy. It felt good in my hands - even after about 2 hours of bucking oak logs of between 14-20" diameter. I mean, this thing cut through 'em like a hot knife through butter. 

NOW - I own 1 Echo. A CS-400, and I must admit, it's been a GREAT saw. Extremely reliable, great on gas, and plenty of power to get smaller oak and silver maple logs up to about 14" bucked with no problem. Between my saw, and his CS-600P, I now have to re-think my opinion of Echo's chainsaws. I DO like the look - Echos have a bit of a "race" type styling to the bodies. 

My question is - Are they catching up now? Could it be that Echo is about to break into the market as a true and legit contender in the world of REAL chainsaws? I gotta say - it sure as s*** seems like it to me. Any other opinions from people who have TRIED a newer Echo???!!! If you haven't tried one, and you just wanna plug YOUR personal model of Stihl or Husky - move along. Let's get to the nitty gritty on the Echo saws of today, folks. I'm excited about this new discovery, and I can't wait to hear from you guys. :msp_thumbsup:


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## jus2fat (Mar 18, 2012)

I've got nothing against Echo equipment...just the way some dealers are dealt
with by the Echo management... They help some and screw over others.
I really think this hinders their sales...and unless they correct this situation...well..??
If a sawyer can't get the warranty repair by the dealer (not dealer's fault)....
Then the sawyer not only won't buy again...but he will also tell his neighbors..bad for Echo.

In the particular situation with your friend's saw...The CS-600P is the best saw in Echo's lineup..!! 
I've ran a couple and I think it's the cream of their crop..!! But it's the only model I might buy..!!

J2F


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## ndlawrence (Mar 18, 2012)

[video=youtube;iJLEqBK1pIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLEqBK1pIQ[/video]


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> I've got nothing against Echo equipment...just the way some dealers are dealt
> with by the Echo management... They help some and screw over others.
> I really think this hinders their sales...and unless they correct this situation...well..??
> If a sawyer can't get the warranty repair by the dealer (not dealer's fault)....
> ...



Ya, that's not the way to work with your distributors, that's for sure.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

ndlawrence said:


> [video=youtube;iJLEqBK1pIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLEqBK1pIQ[/video]



Like butter.


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## cat-face timber (Mar 18, 2012)

I talk alot of #### about Husky, drinking the orange koolaid ect...
I honestly do like Husky best, but it is what I am most familiar with.
I know a Great dealer.
I would never buy a ECHO, as I have no idea where a dealer is for them and PARTS might be hard to find.


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## computeruser (Mar 18, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Like butter.



Indeed. That is one healthy saw. Nice to see it isn't set up with an overly long bar, too.


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## zogger (Mar 18, 2012)

They've always made good saws/engines. They just have a crappy dealer network.


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## Zombiechopper (Mar 18, 2012)

one large hurdle they need to address is their policy of not releasing power numbers. They hide the information, or in the few instances you can find it it is converted KW figures which gives inflated numbers. You can't comparison shop on the specs they put out (or more accurately refuse to put out). That's a big problem. All the echos I have ran and worked on have been well made. Also, in Canada the top line echos are not cheaper than pro grade Stihls. Another big problem. Aftermarket parts are not there either. It is very nice to be able to get recoils, cylinders, clutch covers, fuel lines etc for Stihl and Husky.


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## fearofpavement (Mar 18, 2012)

Echo products are no new discovery. They have a following. I think part of their problem besides the dealer network issues is their marketing perceptions. A saw or other *** product that is sold everywhere is "common" and perceived as homeowner grade. (Even if it is better). Stihl, for example, by controlling their distribution network, gives the perception that their stuff is professional quality. (Even if it isn't).

I think Husqvarna is heading down the same path with both the dealer network and the "homeowner grade" perception. ie, a lot of their lawnmowers and so forth are nothing to be impressed with and that perception will affect all their products.


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## Justsaws (Mar 18, 2012)

Seeing a lot of the newer Echos out there. Not sure whose market share Echo is grabbing but they are selling a lot more of them, and people seem to be quite pleased with them.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

Justsaws said:


> Seeing a lot of the newer Echos out there. Not sure whose market share Echo is grabbing but they are selling a lot more of them, and people seem to be quite pleased with them.



Judging by the one I used this morning, I could see why they're sales are up.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

fearofpavement said:


> Echo products are no new discovery. They have a following. I think part of their problem besides the dealer network issues is their marketing perceptions. A saw or other *** product that is sold everywhere is "common" and perceived as homeowner grade. (Even if it is better). Stihl, for example, by controlling their distribution network, gives the perception that their stuff is professional quality. (Even if it isn't).
> 
> I think Husqvarna is heading down the same path with both the dealer network and the "homeowner grade" perception. ie, a lot of their lawnmowers and so forth are nothing to be impressed with and that perception will affect all their products.



Good point. I do see a LOT more Echo signs in windows (probably 4 to 1) over Stihl or Husky. Common equals crap may not apply here.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> one large hurdle they need to address is their policy of not releasing power numbers. They hide the information, or in the few instances you can find it it is converted KW figures which gives inflated numbers. You can't comparison shop on the specs they put out (or more accurately refuse to put out). That's a big problem. All the echos I have ran and worked on have been well made. Also, in Canada the top line echos are not cheaper than pro grade Stihls. Another big problem. Aftermarket parts are not there either. It is very nice to be able to get recoils, cylinders, clutch covers, fuel lines etc for Stihl and Husky.



Ya, I did notice on the Echo website that the Hp ratings were nowhere to be found.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 18, 2012)

zogger said:


> They've always made good saws/engines. They just have a crappy dealer network.



Right right. Based upon that, I may be asking my local dealer what they're willing to do if Echo wouldn't honor the warranty. I do plan on walking out of my local saw shop with one of these 600's in the near future.


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## joe25DA (Mar 18, 2012)

ndlawrence said:


> [video=youtube;iJLEqBK1pIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLEqBK1pIQ[/video]


nothing wrong with echos. But that log was pine and hollow.


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## zogger (Mar 18, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Right right. Based upon that, I may be asking my local dealer what they're willing to do if Echo wouldn't honor the warranty. I do plan on walking out of my local saw shop with one of these 600's in the near future.



Make sure it is richened up a scosh. They ship too lean. Mine was, roached it, that's what lead me to join this site and find out more about chainsaws. I was 100% ignorant about stock "EPA" settings and so on. I found out about dealer prep, important on brand new saws, they adjust the carbs for break in properly.

As to warranties or not..I wouldn't trust any make of anything small engine as per a warranty, it's a crapshoot. Varies too widely, they have a lot of wiggle room to deny claims. That's a dealer by brand thing, some are great, some suck, going by all the reports.


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## roger m (Mar 18, 2012)

the orsheln farm stores here just started selling echo they always had poulan before,i have been kinda eyeing a cs600,i just find it hard to pull the trigger on one,maybe in the near future:cool2:


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Mar 18, 2012)

nothing wrong with the cs600, we have 2 of them with alot of time on them. have never even changed a plug. the new cs500 is a great saw as well.


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## Zombiechopper (Mar 19, 2012)

joe25DA said:


> nothing wrong with echos. But that log was pine and hollow.



indeed. 

I thought all saw vids were done in rotten balsa?


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## pgg (Mar 19, 2012)

yes echos are catching on in the gay community where they're well suited. the echo brand is also excellent for female operators because echos are now becoming prettier. although they're always gonna be wimpy and weak engines compared to the european stuff. It's a big change from all those decades of echos being ugly and non-functional though. now they're pretty and non-functional


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## Hddnis (Mar 19, 2012)

If you need parts Echo will be cheaper.


For example I had an Echo machine and a comparable Stihl machine that both needed carb kits, fuel lines, primer bulbs, and air filters.

Total price for these parts for Echo $26.50

For Stihl $79.84

Both sets of parts were purchased from local dealers. Both machines now run fine and I expect they'll keep on running and making money. 

So, what kind of machine you ask? Hedge shear.





Mr. HE


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## redunshee (Mar 19, 2012)

pgg said:


> yes echos are catching on in the gay community where they're well suited. the echo brand is also excellent for female operators because echos are now becoming prettier. although they're always gonna be wimpy and weak engines compared to the european stuff. It's a big change from all those decades of echos being ugly and non-functional though. now they're pretty and non-functional



Obviously nothing to offer! Just wasted time.


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## Cliff R (Mar 19, 2012)

+1

He just can't get over the CS-360T that got "fried" because his next door neighbors third cousins x-wifes boyfriend wasn't smart enough to put oil in the mix and fatten up the carb just a tad.

If you are going to bad mouth an entire product line, you should at least have DIRECT experience with it, and some pictures to go with the specifics....FWIW

Anyhow, Echo makes some really nice stuff, some OK, and a few that are pathetically underpowered.

They continue to upgrade the line-up, so we are starting to see some models like the 600P that rival the Husky and Stihls in that size/range.

They need to hit the 70-85cc market at some point. What they have now is marginal in power, and if you own a 262XP, 268XP, and 181SE, you're CS-670 and CS-800 woln't be finding it's way to the truck very often. Matter of fact, mine went on Ebay, for someone else to enjoy.

I kept the CS-510, pound for pound it's the best of the bunch, or at least the best of the ones that I've owned. I keep the CS-370's around because they are great little saws for limbing, and dead solid reliable. Don't expect super fast chain speeds from the CS-370/400's, but they have good mid-range power and "grunt" for the cc's.

As far as the 600P, If I didn't have a 262 and 268XP, there would be one in my line-up......Cliff


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 19, 2012)

zogger said:


> Make sure it is richened up a scosh. They ship too lean. Mine was, roached it, that's what lead me to join this site and find out more about chainsaws. I was 100% ignorant about stock "EPA" settings and so on. I found out about dealer prep, important on brand new saws, they adjust the carbs for break in properly.
> 
> As to warranties or not..I wouldn't trust any make of anything small engine as per a warranty, it's a crapshoot. Varies too widely, they have a lot of wiggle room to deny claims. That's a dealer by brand thing, some are great, some suck, going by all the reports.



Oh, absolutely. I know what you mean. It's a case of "Buyer Beware" in these types of purchases.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 19, 2012)

pgg said:


> yes echos are catching on in the gay community where they're well suited. the echo brand is also excellent for female operators because echos are now becoming prettier. although they're always gonna be wimpy and weak engines compared to the european stuff. It's a big change from all those decades of echos being ugly and non-functional though. now they're pretty and non-functional



Tell your wife (if you have one) to swing by my house - I'll show her what a REAL man can do.  hell....if your daughter is over 18, she can join in. There's enough Michigan Muscle for both of 'em.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 19, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> +1
> 
> He just can't get over the CS-360T that got "fried" because his next door neighbors third cousins x-wifes boyfriend wasn't smart enough to put oil in the mix and fatten up the carb just a tad.
> 
> ...



Gotcha - all good to know. I was wondering the same thing about the 80cc range. Seems to me they could really eat up some of the market. The CS-8000 is listed at 80.7cc's, but that looks to be the end all/be all for that range in the Echo lineup. I'll have to get my hands on the 8000 to check it out. As for the CS-400 - I'll have to post a video one day, but I actually ripped about 3 feet of a 15" diameter log of fresh oak with that little sucker (I was cutting out a seat for a little bench I was making at the time). It took me about 5 or 6 minutes - but it did it, and kept on runnin'. So, the Echo engines do seem to be solid workers.


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## zogger (Mar 19, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Gotcha - all good to know. I was wondering the same thing about the 80cc range. Seems to me they could really eat up some of the market. The CS-8000 is listed at 80.7cc's, but that looks to be the end all/be all for that range in the Echo lineup. I'll have to get my hands on the 8000 to check it out. As for the CS-400 - I'll have to post a video one day, but I actually ripped about 3 feet of a 15" diameter log of fresh oak with that little sucker (I was cutting out a seat for a little bench I was making at the time). It took me about 5 or 6 minutes - but it did it, and kept on runnin'. So, the Echo engines do seem to be solid workers.



They used to make larger ones in the 100 cc range. Also a dual cylinder model.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 19, 2012)

zogger said:


> They used to make larger ones in the 100 cc range. Also a dual cylinder model.



Ahhhh....gotcha. Do you recall a model # of the 100cc? I may try to locate one.


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## cat-face timber (Mar 19, 2012)

zogger said:


> They used to make larger ones in the 100 cc range. Also a dual cylinder model.



Dual cylinder?
WOW, that is very cool.....
I wonder how heavy it would be?


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## jus2fat (Mar 19, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Ahhhh....gotcha. Do you recall a model # of the 100cc? I may try to locate one.


Model Profile: CS1001VL

There was also a CS1100 - CS1200 - and CS-2000...No info on these...:msp_sad:

J2F


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## Hddnis (Mar 19, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Ahhhh....gotcha. Do you recall a model # of the 100cc? I may try to locate one.





CS-900EVL (92cc?)
CS-1000
CS-1001

All discontinued, but still available on ebay and private sales.

And they currently make the CS-1200 120cc, but not sold here in the US due to EPA. Available in S. America and Africa.

All of this is off the top of my head and before I had my first cup of coffee so, if I got it wrong, well, chime in with whatcha know. 



Mr. HE


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## xjma (Mar 19, 2012)

I don't have any experience with echo saws but I have hand-me-down weed whacker and leaf blower about 15-20 year old vintage, top of the line when they were purchased by my father in law. Local place had the new fuel bulb, carb kit, etc. required for machines of this vintage and they both run mint, but again, I believe they weren't the cheap-o models to begin with. 

The local dealer, lawn equipment of all shapes and sizes, said he had just 3 or 4 years ago switched over to echo from stihl after being a stihl dealer for 20+ years (still carries parts, just doesn't sell their new equipment any longer). He said once he saw plastic carburetors, he ran like hell. I know this is second hand info I'm passing along but this is what the guy told me when I asked him about the quality of echos and why no more stihl.


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## Hddnis (Mar 19, 2012)

In overall engine tech Echo is a little behind, but they build rock solid stuff. It runs when everything else quits, always been that way.

Echo recently started putting carbs with a lot of plastic on the line of trimmers they sell at Home Depot. Non-adjustable. Some of those won't even run when brand new. I've swapped carbs on a few of them and then ported them, after that they run like a top, tons of power. The engines are so strong that a guy could go wild with them, but no need to do that.



Mr. HE


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## jnl502 (Mar 19, 2012)

I know several ol"timers that all they ran was echos. The older mag cased ones anyway. I bought one of them out a few years back. Just to old to get out much much less cut wood. Plus I knew him all my life and knew the saws might need a cleaning but were taken care of. A evl440,evl 550, and a evl610 twin. All the older mag orange cases. The 550 I like pretty well. The first homemade mill I built I used 550 to cut up a hickory log about 32" in dia. I had to rip it in half with my 288xp to be able to drag it to the house but then the 20" bar on the 550 done well ripping the halfs in 2" wide strips. The 440 and the 610 are heavy for the power output but run well. The 610 is smooth as a baby's behind. Anyway I have heard good and bad about echos but the same with all brands as well. Everyone has had a nitemare saw or saws in their life, we read them all the time!
jnl


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## timmcat (Mar 19, 2012)

Warranty issues as far as Echo goes are non-existant around here. It depends alot on the dealer-distributor relationship. Non of the warranty stuff ever even gets as high as echo corporate unlesss its directed by the cpsc. Anyone who has ever had a bad echo warranty experience must have had a dealer who really pissed of his tech guy at the distributor or was on probation for repetative warranty fraud. We warranty stuff that shouldn't be warranteed all of the time because we have a good relationship with our distributor. If a dealer has elite status they dont even need approval for shortblocks or unit replacements. 

CS-600P = awesome


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## sawinredneck (Mar 19, 2012)

I hope to pick up a CS-360T sometime soon for a "truck saw", they seem to respond well with a few mods and I don't want to dump the cash for a 200t (if I could even find one!)
I ran an Echo pole pruner, the adjustable one, that thing was slick as snot! I don't think it had the power my Shinny powerhead has, but being adjustable more than made up for that!
I've yet to hear a good thing about the CS-8000 yet though, so I'll pass on that one for now!
But yes, the box store availability hasn't helped the namesake, and they had more than their share of problems in the late 80's and early 90's with quality control, but seem to be getting their act together now. I still have to wonder what they have planned for Shinny in the future?


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## oldfortyfive (Mar 19, 2012)

I've been lucky having a great local dealer, but really haven't had much warranty work. Only once on my Echo weed wacker. Carb had to be replaced as the seal material was bad and swelled up.

My 10+ year old CS 4400 is still running nicely. Still has the original plug. I maintain about 18 acres of woods for a club I'm in so it gets a good workout every year.

Got a CS 271 last fall and have been very happy with it. Bought it because of it's small size. I keep it in a toolbag so I always have a saw with me.


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## oldfortyfive (Mar 19, 2012)

Forgot to add in my 25+ year old my Echo yard blower that is still running great. One it's second plug.


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## oldfortyfive (Mar 19, 2012)

One more thought...The only negative I've found with Echo chainsaws is the oiler. They work well, but I've found I have to keep them drained or they will leak out in a day or so if not used.


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## Bob Wright (Mar 19, 2012)

I caught on in 1973 you guys need to do some catching up  ...Bob


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## Bob Wright (Mar 19, 2012)

oldfortyfive said:


> One more thought...The only negative I've found with Echo chainsaws is the oiler. They work well, but I've found I have to keep them drained or they will leak out in a day or so if not used.



What model? Echo uses lots of different oilers they all can't be bad. Mine don't leak but they are all old models and have at least 4 different oilers...Bob


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## jus2fat (Mar 19, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I caught on in 1973 you guys need to do some catching up  ...Bob


Hey Bob..!!!!

Good to see you post..Long time no hear from..dude..??

Hope you've just been busy..!!

J2F


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## Bob Wright (Mar 19, 2012)

Hddnis said:


> CS-900EVL (92cc?)
> CS-1000
> CS-1001
> 
> ...



The CS-100 with 106 cc's. I have the CS-1001 and love it. Everyone likes when i get the big boy out. The first pic is mine. The 2nd is Echo's cutting team with a CS-1201. They get one and we don't...Bob


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## Bob Wright (Mar 19, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Hey Bob..!!!!
> 
> Good to see you post..Long time no hear from..dude..??
> 
> ...



Been real busy. Internet orders in my machine shop, my real job at work. And my step mom went from the hosp straight to a nursing home leaving my old dad home alone. Sucks to get old i guess. I know i about have a stroke startin the CS-1001 What a way to go ...Bob


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## Bob Wright (Mar 19, 2012)

Leeha is the man when it come to the big Echo's. He has more than me LOL...Bob


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## TK (Mar 19, 2012)

Hddnis said:


> If you need parts Echo will be cheaper.
> 
> 
> For example I had an Echo machine and a comparable Stihl machine that both needed carb kits, fuel lines, primer bulbs, and air filters.
> ...



You're kidding? You paid $80 for a carb kit, fuel line, and air filter? Wasn't aware of any primers on them anyway. You been had chief. You been had.


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## jnl502 (Mar 19, 2012)

oldfortyfive said:


> One more thought...The only negative I've found with Echo chainsaws is the oiler. They work well, but I've found I have to keep them drained or they will leak out in a day or so if not used.



I thought all brands did that or is it just the ones I own.:confused2:


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## mountainlake (Mar 19, 2012)

I haven't had any problem with my Echo saws leaking oil, the only one that leaks is a Solo 690. If you fill them full of cold oil and they get warmer the oil will come out. Steve


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## zogger (Mar 19, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> The CS-100 with 106 cc's. I have the CS-1001 and love it. Everyone likes when i get the big boy out. The first pic is mine. The 2nd is Echo's cutting team with a CS-1201. They get one and we don't...Bob



Maybe you could buy several different boxes of 1201 "replacement parts". As in...all the parts.


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## rmotoman (Mar 19, 2012)

None of my echos leak oil when sitting. Only the 6401 leaks oil sitting around.


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## mountainlake (Mar 19, 2012)

TK said:


> You're kidding? You paid $80 for a carb kit, fuel line, and air filter? Wasn't aware of any primers on them anyway. You been had chief. You been had.



Don't sit there and call anyone chief you jerk!!!! OEM Stihl parts do cost about twice as much as OEM Echo parts and if you weren't so dumb you'ld figure it out. Steve


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## Hddnis (Mar 19, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> The CS-100 with 106 cc's. I have the CS-1001 and love it. Everyone likes when i get the big boy out. The first pic is mine. The 2nd is Echo's cutting team with a CS-1201. They get one and we don't...Bob





I'd really like to get one, by hook or by crook. Paperwork, time, money, jumping through flaming hoops, don't matter, I want one. So far I've struck out finding someone overseas who can make it happen. But tomorrow is another day and I'm still trying. I'd like to talk Echo into doing a limited import, I'd rather have several of them around, but I don't even know who to talk to about that, yet.



Mr. HE


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## oldfortyfive (Mar 19, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> What model? Echo uses lots of different oilers they all can't be bad. Mine don't leak but they are all old models and have at least 4 different oilers...Bob



All three, the CS 4400, CS 271 and my pole saw.


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## Hddnis (Mar 19, 2012)

TK said:


> You're kidding? You paid $80 for a carb kit, fuel line, and air filter? Wasn't aware of any primers on them anyway. You been had chief. You been had.





Could be, Stihl parts included roughly $12.00 in shipping. No shipping on Echo parts and I got them sooner. Not the first time I've seen such a spread between two pieces of similar equipment. That was just the latest example. 

But, maybe I'll just base what you know off you not knowing they have primers? 




Mr. HE


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2012)

ndlawrence said:


> [video=youtube;iJLEqBK1pIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLEqBK1pIQ[/video]





joe25DA said:


> nothing wrong with echos. But that log was pine and hollow.



Just on the end......that's why it was left there.


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## BrocLuno (Mar 19, 2012)

*Catching on, hmmm ...*

I have a nice old Echo CS302 from pretty far back. It has an Oregon Pro-Lite bar and Rapco Carbide chain. It's my demolition saw for beams and such. Has a top mounted adjustable oiler that makes it great for dry old beams when you need to dial up the oil feed. Works pretty well as a limbing saw too. 

They are "high speed" oriental motors, but the don't wear out any faster. You just have to keep the R's up and they run well. Pretty sturdy little beastie


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2012)

Walnut anyone?????

[video=youtube;FuSNYH0-zpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuSNYH0-zpA&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=17&feature=plcp[/video]


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## rmh3481 (Mar 19, 2012)

Interesting thing about the Echo 1200/1201's is they all pass through Illinois on their way to South America. Im pretty sure Echo could get the engine to meet 48 state emissions, but there is no brake and the CPSC wont overlook that. 

Ive got a couple of the cs-8000 models that have been ported and they run well. Only plastic on them is the top cover. Rear handle - gas tank, crankcase, recoil housing, clutch cover etc are all magnesium. Built very well in this day and age. They scavenge through a full circle windowed piston similar to a Jonsered 820.


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## griffonks (Mar 19, 2012)

I have an Echo CS4400 and a CS670. Also some old EVL's kicking around on the high shelves (heavy critters), I have never had any complaints about the Echos except I'm not fond of the outboard clutch on the 670. However it chews the heck out of big Cottonwood with a 20" bar and full chisel.


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## jnl502 (Mar 20, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I caught on in 1973 you guys need to do some catching up  ...Bob



gonna be hard to do for me. was born in Dec. 75!
jnl
I have a friend that is a military contractor in Africa now testing a new vehicle. I can get ahold of him if anyone wants.


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 20, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> one large hurdle they need to address is their policy of not releasing power numbers. They hide the information, or in the few instances you can find it it is converted KW figures which gives inflated numbers. You can't comparison shop on the specs they put out (or more accurately refuse to put out). That's a big problem. All the echos I have ran and worked on have been well made. Also, in Canada the top line echos are not cheaper than pro grade Stihls. Another big problem. Aftermarket parts are not there either. It is very nice to be able to get recoils, cylinders, clutch covers, fuel lines etc for Stihl and Husky.



A lot of companies don't put out power numbers since B&S got sued for not putting out the HP to match the specs. I think I'm right about that but it's been awhile so may have my facts skewed a little due to poor memory.


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 20, 2012)

griffonks said:


> I have an Echo CS4400 and a CS670. Also some old EVL's kicking around on the high shelves (heavy critters), I have never had any complaints about the Echos except I'm not fond of the outboard clutch on the 670. However it chews the heck out of big Cottonwood with a 20" bar and full chisel.



I'd prefer an outboard clutch on anything...


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## redunshee (Mar 20, 2012)

*Echo 302S*

Friend dropeed off a 302s he got for free. Said it wouldn't start. Opened case and was shocked to see a like new saw . Got saw running but not oiling. Looked and saw no oil line in tank. Pain to replace but got it. Saw ran great and oiled. I was surprised how much power it had for a small saw. I was impressed.


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## redunshee (Mar 20, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Walnut anyone?????
> 
> [video=youtube;FuSNYH0-zpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuSNYH0-zpA&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=17&feature=plcp[/video]



Wow. Great job. Too bad you had to waste the walnut.


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## mountainlake (Mar 20, 2012)

Right, published HP numbers are just that. Has anyone ever found the 3.8 HP the they claim the MS290 has when other saws with the same HP CUT a lot faster. As quite a few vids on here prove Echo saws cut good cc for cc with the best Stihl and Husky saws and blow away thier lesser models.
Echo has reasonable OEM parts that can be picked up at a dealer OR ordered on line and shipped right to your house. Far as the one guy on here that claims Echo doesn't treat thier dealers good it could be true or maybe the dealer sent in a lot of junk warrenty claims and they put a stop to it, seem like a lot more good reports on how Echo treats thier dealers. I got in a Efco 152 that needed to be tuned, was running pig rich set up by a local dealer. After tuning I did timed cuts in big hardwood , again my CS400 amazed me as it was dead even with 152 at 20 seconds with my muff modded CS520 coming in at 17 seconds. The Efco has a stock muff and surely would pick up some with a muff modd. Steve


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## oldfortyfive (Mar 20, 2012)

It appears to me that most horsepower ratings are taken 3 milliseconds before the engine self destructs when running wide open. I still chuckle at all the Craftsman power tool ads. Any similar Milwaukee tool used 2-3 times the amps and would run circles around any Craftsman power tool despite the huge HP ratings.


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Right, published HP numbers are just that. Has anyone ever found the 3.8 HP the they claim the MS290 has when other saws with the same HP CUT a lot faster. As quite a few vids on here prove Echo saws cut good cc for cc with the best Stihl and Husky saws and blow away thier lesser models.
> Echo has reasonable OEM parts that can be picked up at a dealer OR ordered on line and shipped right to your house. Far as the one guy on here that claims Echo doesn't treat thier dealers good it could be true or maybe the dealer sent in a lot of junk warrenty claims and they put a stop to it, seem like a lot more good reports on how Echo treats thier dealers. I got in a Efco 152 that needed to be tuned, was running pig rich set up by a local dealer. After tuning I did timed cuts in big hardwood , again my CS400 amazed me as it was dead even with 152 at 20 seconds with my muff modded CS520 coming in at 17 seconds. The Efco has a stock muff and surely would pick up some with a muff modd. Steve



I've only ever talked to one echo dealer, and this is anecdotal, what he told me. For years he sold echo stuff, along with a lot of other stuff, he has a hardware and appliance store, a little of everything. TVs to woodstoves, garden tools to fridges. So he used to eat real minor repairs on his echo line to keep his customers happy and speed things up. He never bothered to turn in a single small echo repair. Not a lot, just the real small stuff that wasn't hard to do, and he said, that's all he ever got, that their gear was pretty good. So one time it finally happened, he gets a major warranty claim for a blower that would necessitate just a replacement, so he turned in a claim. Echo come down on him hard, said he had skipped tech training and so on (while still selling him all their stuff and keeping him as a dealer). He said he felt so abused by them, the verbal abuse on the phone, he quit them on the spot. He gave the customer another blower out of his own pocket, and that's it. 

So, a single major claim in years, they harangued him, so he quit, and he sold their stuff for over a decade.

FWIW


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## fossil (Mar 20, 2012)

Remember Pearl


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## 3000 FPS (Mar 20, 2012)

fossil said:


> Remember Pearl



Ha. It's to late half the cars here are already Honda or Toyota so why not chainsaws.


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## fossil (Mar 20, 2012)

Well, I own an Echo and it is an absolutely great little saw (CS-310). I cleaned the cat out of that muffler because I figured the warranty was garbage anyway so who cares abut voiding the warranty after a year of use? As far as dealing with more companies than not, their warranties aren't worth the paper they’re printed on. That includes companies from all over. Too many of them frustrate the heck out of you so you will go away. Whenever I run into a company with great customer service skills and service I just about fall over dead. Doesn't say much about a lot of them does it? I know that the dealers have a huge part to play in this and good dealers are priceless as well but, if the manufacturer is a slime ball it doesn't matter what the dealer does.

All in all though, they do make great saws.


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## Sawfxr (Mar 20, 2012)

Way back when... ( I had more hair) Echo built all the John Deere EV series saws. 
I worked at a small local JD dealer in the early 80's and the parts we ordered for customers saws were JD bagged but had Echo tags on the part inside the bags. I've seen and used all kinds of saws since I started fixin' them. I love my old Sthil 026, I really like the Husky's I've fixed, not much of a Mac guy, won't touch a Craftsman/Poulan (absolutely refuse to accept them in my shop) Homelites are ok and haven't seen any Echos yet. :msp_thumbup:
Just my 2c.
E


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## wyk (Mar 20, 2012)

fossil said:


> Remember Pearl



Does that mean STIHL is out as well?


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 20, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Right, published HP numbers are just that. Has anyone ever found the 3.8 HP the they claim the MS290 has when other saws with the same HP CUT a lot faster. As quite a few vids on here prove Echo saws cut good cc for cc with the best Stihl and Husky saws and blow away thier lesser models.
> Echo has reasonable OEM parts that can be picked up at a dealer OR ordered on line and shipped right to your house. Far as the one guy on here that claims Echo doesn't treat thier dealers good it could be true or maybe the dealer sent in a lot of junk warrenty claims and they put a stop to it, seem like a lot more good reports on how Echo treats thier dealers. I got in a Efco 152 that needed to be tuned, was running pig rich set up by a local dealer. After tuning I did timed cuts in big hardwood , again my CS400 amazed me as it was dead even with 152 at 20 seconds with my muff modded CS520 coming in at 17 seconds. The Efco has a stock muff and surely would pick up some with a muff modd. Steve



I can attest to the CS400 being a great saw. It's my favorite saw under 50 cc's. Nice n' light, too - I think the PHO weight is about 10#. Great saw to lug through the woods with you, and I even take it with me when I go camping. Rock solid.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 20, 2012)

zogger said:


> I've only ever talked to one echo dealer, and this is anecdotal, what he told me. For years he sold echo stuff, along with a lot of other stuff, he has a hardware and appliance store, a little of everything. TVs to woodstoves, garden tools to fridges. So he used to eat real minor repairs on his echo line to keep his customers happy and speed things up. He never bothered to turn in a single small echo repair. Not a lot, just the real small stuff that wasn't hard to do, and he said, that's all he ever got, that their gear was pretty good. So one time it finally happened, he gets a major warranty claim for a blower that would necessitate just a replacement, so he turned in a claim. Echo come down on him hard, said he had skipped tech training and so on (while still selling him all their stuff and keeping him as a dealer). He said he felt so abused by them, the verbal abuse on the phone, he quit them on the spot. He gave the customer another blower out of his own pocket, and that's it.
> 
> So, a single major claim in years, they harangued him, so he quit, and he sold their stuff for over a decade.
> 
> FWIW



Wow...that's horrible. Apparently, client service is low list for Echo. Just out of curiosity - how long ago did your buddy have this experience?


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 20, 2012)

wyk said:


> Does that mean STIHL is out as well?



Husqvarna should be safe for now, but wait, didn't they merge with Poulan?


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Wow...that's horrible. Apparently, client service is low list for Echo. Just out of curiosity - how long ago did your buddy have this experience?



He's an older guy I do business with in town, still has his store. He's REAL fair and good to his customers, his prices on everything are good and he'll cut ya a deal now and then off the posted retail. that kind of real "mom and pop" good old fashioned kinda place. 

And has gone out of his way to find me stuff when none of the other local small engine guys could get it, he'll sit and drag out catalogs for fifteen minutes trying to find a five buck part. . So I believe his story. As to how long he was an echo dealer, at least a decade maybe more, I don't recall the exact specifics, might be even two decades. When I first moved here he still had his echo dealership, so once I toasted mine, I was going to check his parts and prices, etc, that's when he told me had had stopped selling them recently, and he told me the story. So, just around two years ago now, year and half really. 

So, he doesn't sell echo now or much in the way of small engine stuff besides some mowers and such like (which are almost all rebadged MTD now anyway, riders or pushers). He has so much other stock he sells he really doesn't need to sell saws and blowers, etc.

Pretty cool old guy, been collecting classic antique cars all his life, he told me he stopped at 50 of them when he ran out of room to park them.



So..if you have a dealer who has a GOOD relationship with echo, that might be cool, if not...crapshoot. Like I said before, I don't trust warranties on that sort of stuff anyway, wayyyy too easy for them to just say "straight gassed" no matter what it is and you eat it. Besides with saws, I bet most guys around here void the warranty within ten minutes of getting it home (muffler mod, pull caps, retune), so the point is moot.


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## Bob Wright (Mar 20, 2012)

zogger said:


> Maybe you could buy several different boxes of 1201 "replacement parts". As in...all the parts.



I emailed Echo 5-6 years ago about getting a new in the box CS-60S and the lady said i would have to fly overseas and bring one back and getting it thru customs was another problem. I asked for parts as in i will put it back together myself. Now you can get parts online for that model ( it is now discontinued after a 41 year run) and i found a brand new one on ebay for 219 bucks. Not bad for a 24" saw. But it will never run as its just for show...Bob


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## Bob Wright (Mar 20, 2012)

zogger said:


> said he had skipped tech training



My dad was a dealer and i went every year for along time. The last one i went to was in 1984 and we got to tear down brand new CS-602's and put them back together. Wish i could have kept the saw too...Bob


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> My dad was a dealer and i went every year for along time. The last one i went to was in 1984 and we got to tear down brand new CS-602's and put them back together. Wish i could have kept the saw too...Bob



that's pretty neat!

My dad was a mainframe computer guy, and I got to go see the whopper old timey machines (50s-60s era, when not many computers of any kind around). He tried an early education for me on them, but drat it all I am colorblind and back then you needed a good color sense to work on electronics.


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## tallguys (Mar 20, 2012)

fossil said:


> Remember Pearl



Not sure I follow you on this because Echo is assembled mostly in Illinois. Yes the parent company is Japan, but so what?

Stihl is German and Husqvarna is Swedish, point being that none of the big players is domestic.


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## sharkness (Mar 20, 2012)

There are a couple Stihl dealers in my area that also sell Echo. I've never even glanced at that side of the store. Well maybe a glance and with that glance a double take at a camo top handle. Cheesy:msp_laugh:


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## bootboy (Mar 20, 2012)

sharkness said:


> There are a couple Stihl dealers in my area that also sell Echo. I've never even glanced at that side of the store. Well maybe a glance and with that glance a double take at a camo top handle. Cheesy:msp_laugh:



Yeah the camo is cheesy but the 600p sure isn't. I just spent the whole day cutting with mine and the more I use it, the more I like it. It starts every time in 3 pulls, runs like a champ and cuts every bit as fast as an ms362. once its warm it just asks for more and absolutely shreds 20" rounds with square filed skip chain. I think I'm in love. I've even named it. 

My little 360t is no 200t but it's better than a 192, it's a great little saw. It's light, reliable, WAY cheaper, and cuts fast enough for me, especially after a muff mod and a retune. Both saws have caught on with me in a big way. Now I just wish the boffins at yamabiko would concoct a 75-80cc saw with the same thoughtfulness as the 600p on the same platform.


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## sharkness (Mar 20, 2012)

I thought about an Echo Trimmer but settled for a Shindaiwa. I have no experiance with there saws. I do have to work on a CS-440 tomorrow so that will be a first for me.


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## bootboy (Mar 20, 2012)

sharkness said:


> I thought about an Echo Trimmer but settled for a Shindaiwa. I have no experiance with there saws. I do have to work on a CS-440 tomorrow so that will be a first for me.



I can certainly recommend their trimmers. I've had one since I was in highschool (10+years) and its a champ. In all this time it's only needed the carb rebuilt once. I used it commercially for 3 years and it has since been relegated to just my own yard but it runs like new to this day.


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 20, 2012)

zogger said:


> He's an older guy I do business with in town, still has his store. He's REAL fair and good to his customers, his prices on everything are good and he'll cut ya a deal now and then off the posted retail. that kind of real "mom and pop" good old fashioned kinda place.
> 
> And has gone out of his way to find me stuff when none of the other local small engine guys could get it, he'll sit and drag out catalogs for fifteen minutes trying to find a five buck part. . So I believe his story. As to how long he was an echo dealer, at least a decade maybe more, I don't recall the exact specifics, might be even two decades. When I first moved here he still had his echo dealership, so once I toasted mine, I was going to check his parts and prices, etc, that's when he told me had had stopped selling them recently, and he told me the story. So, just around two years ago now, year and half really.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't void the warranty but I wouldn't take it to anyone to be repaired. I just treat everything I buy as if it has no warranty and fix what's broken myself, it's a lot less hassle.


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## homelitejim (Mar 20, 2012)

I would love to get a hold of one of the 90 to 100 cc saws made back in the day. Echo does make a 5 cube saw it is the cs8000, I bet with some work it would flat out run.


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## a. palmer jr. (Mar 20, 2012)

homelitejim said:


> I would love to get a hold of one of the 90 to 100 cc saws made back in the day. Echo does make a 5 cube saw it is the cs8000, I bet with some work it would flat out run.



I just traded one to my neighbor. It needed a piston and cylinder. Neighbor did that and put a new carburetor on it and he and I still aren't too impressed with it. He traded me a good running Husqvarna 350 for it, I believe I came out ahead on that one! Maybe there's still something wrong with the 8000. It isn't overly fast and it is heavy.


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## Chris J. (Mar 21, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I just traded one to my neighbor. It needed a piston and cylinder. Neighbor did that and put a new carburetor on it and he and I still aren't too impressed with it. He traded me a good running Husqvarna 350 for it, I believe I came out ahead on that one! Maybe there's still something wrong with the 8000. It isn't overly fast and it is heavy.



Even the Echo fans don't post many positive comments about the 8000.


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## bootboy (Mar 21, 2012)

My understanding is that it's heavy and not super fast, built with archaic technology, but you can't kill them. They are ultra reliable and easy to work on. I have no personal experience but have heard these things from various people who do.


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## Hddnis (Mar 21, 2012)

8000 makes a good stump saw, they don't mind lugging through in the low range. Relatively hard to burn them up. Sadly most get used this way and they look like garbage.

Decent platform for porting, which wakes them up nicely.




Mr. HE


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## ncfarmboy (Mar 21, 2012)

Echos are definately "catching on" I'd buy one if I needed a saw which I don't (may anyway). CS400, CS600 and their top handles are a great value and run dang good too.
Shep


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## Mastermind (Mar 21, 2012)

The CS600 is a fine saw IMHO. I've got another one here to do a woods port on that I'll start this morning. :msp_thumbup:


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

griffonks said:


> I have an Echo CS4400 and a CS670. Also some old EVL's kicking around on the high shelves (heavy critters), I have never had any complaints about the Echos except I'm not fond of the outboard clutch on the 670. However it chews the heck out of big Cottonwood with a 20" bar and full chisel.



Speaking of the EVL's, I just picked one up. I ended up getting a smokin' deal on a 650EVL, and it's in superb condition. Looks barely used, and runs extremely well. It's got a nice grumble to it. Gonna get out and make my first cuts with it this weekend.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

Sawfxr said:


> Way back when... ( I had more hair) Echo built all the John Deere EV series saws.
> I worked at a small local JD dealer in the early 80's and the parts we ordered for customers saws were JD bagged but had Echo tags on the part inside the bags. I've seen and used all kinds of saws since I started fixin' them. I love my old Sthil 026, I really like the Husky's I've fixed, not much of a Mac guy, won't touch a Craftsman/Poulan (absolutely refuse to accept them in my shop) Homelites are ok and haven't seen any Echos yet. :msp_thumbup:
> Just my 2c.
> E



Yes, I've noticed some of the JD's had Echo labels on various parts.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

zogger said:


> He's an older guy I do business with in town, still has his store. He's REAL fair and good to his customers, his prices on everything are good and he'll cut ya a deal now and then off the posted retail. that kind of real "mom and pop" good old fashioned kinda place.
> 
> And has gone out of his way to find me stuff when none of the other local small engine guys could get it, he'll sit and drag out catalogs for fifteen minutes trying to find a five buck part. . So I believe his story. As to how long he was an echo dealer, at least a decade maybe more, I don't recall the exact specifics, might be even two decades. When I first moved here he still had his echo dealership, so once I toasted mine, I was going to check his parts and prices, etc, that's when he told me had had stopped selling them recently, and he told me the story. So, just around two years ago now, year and half really.
> 
> ...



Gotcha. That's a shame, but I'm glad to hear he's still in biz. I have a "ma and pop" shop I go to for most my saw parts (fuel lines, carb kits, pins, etc..), so I know how great it is to have those shops around. That's one thing I'll say about Michigan - we have a LOT of those shops in my area, and the "midwest retail charm" is still running strong. Not what it once was, tho....


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

sharkness said:


> I thought about an Echo Trimmer but settled for a Shindaiwa. I have no experiance with there saws. I do have to work on a CS-440 tomorrow so that will be a first for me.



I just put some new fuel lines in my CS400 yeasterday morning. Not bad saws to work on - but a little tight on space.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Yeah the camo is cheesy but the 600p sure isn't. I just spent the whole day cutting with mine and the more I use it, the more I like it. It starts every time in 3 pulls, runs like a champ and cuts every bit as fast as an ms362. once its warm it just asks for more and absolutely shreds 20" rounds with square filed skip chain. I think I'm in love. I've even named it.
> 
> My little 360t is no 200t but it's better than a 192, it's a great little saw. It's light, reliable, WAY cheaper, and cuts fast enough for me, especially after a muff mod and a retune. Both saws have caught on with me in a big way. Now I just wish the boffins at yamabiko would concoct a 75-80cc saw with the same thoughtfulness as the 600p on the same platform.



LMFAO...what did you name her? I named my CS400 "Old Faithful" about 2 years ago. It always - ALWAYS - starts, and get the job done.


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

homelitejim said:


> I would love to get a hold of one of the 90 to 100 cc saws made back in the day. Echo does make a 5 cube saw it is the cs8000, I bet with some work it would flat out run.



Ya, I've heard those 8000's are absolute log hogs. Just a beast of a saw.


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## bootboy (Mar 23, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> LMFAO...what did you name her? I named my CS400 "Old Faithful" about 2 years ago. It always - ALWAYS - starts, and get the job done.



My 600p is named "Goose". I don't have a name for my 360t... yet


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## Michigan Muscle (Mar 23, 2012)

bootboy said:


> My 600p is named "Goose". I don't have a name for my 360t... yet



Niiiice. That's classic. LMAO


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## bootboy (Mar 23, 2012)

I have an old poulan 2300cva that I call "the gimp". I'm waiting for a good name to strike me for the 360.


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## Arbonaut (Mar 23, 2012)

Hey keep that Michigan Muscle away from my daughter.

At that--You don't hear it mentioned here too much, but Twenty years ago Shindaiwa was the official saw af the International Society of Aboriculture-who also is like Echo is also headquartered here in Urbana, Illinois. Today it is Husqvarna.

When I went shopping for a new climbing saw, I found out that you couldn't get Shindaiwa past the EPA regs in the US. I found that Echo was made on Shindaiwa machines by American mechanics. It was the first time I'd even a little interest in them cause their marketing sucks. I mean, I just didn't know what they were. When you think, "Echo" you go, "What is it-- a reflection or a copy or knock off? What are they trying to Echo?" I realize they have been around for decades, but, Shindaiwa or Choppasaki or Whakasuki or Razorsaka would sound tougher.

I like the Five Year Warranty but don't like the bar retaining nuts.


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## Bob Wright (Mar 23, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> I found that Echo was made on Shindaiwa machines by American mechanics. It was the first time I'd even a little interest in them cause their marketing sucks. I mean, I just didn't know what they were. When you think, "Echo" you go, "What is it-- a reflection or a copy or knock off? What are they trying to Echo?"




They are sister companies both owned by yamibiko group 
YAMABIKO CORPORATION I would have bet money that theu were connected 28 years ago even their catalogs looked alike. Just my official thought...Bob


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## Arbonaut (Mar 23, 2012)

There is no doubt they are catching on in the NE USA and in Canada.

Quite honestly when I want a saw, I just buy it because they make me money. The worse the economy, the more a chainsaw is worth having. 

I'd own an Echo in a heartbeat.

Check out their lumberjack competitions. I love this show.


[video=youtube;Ji-SqKS3Bt4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-SqKS3Bt4[/video]


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## hiluxxulih (Apr 28, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> They are sister companies both owned by yamibiko group
> YAMABIKO CORPORATION I would have bet money that theu were connected 28 years ago even their catalogs looked alike. Just my official thought...Bob


 I bought a new Echo CS 600-P a few days ago and I like it so far .


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## Mastermind (Apr 28, 2012)

hiluxxulih said:


> I bought a new Echo CS 600-P a few days ago and I like it so far .



I throw this up anytime I can....... :hmm3grin2orange:

[video=youtube;iJLEqBK1pIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLEqBK1pIQ&feature=plcp[/video]


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## KodiakII (Apr 29, 2012)

The end of that log looks like it is half rotted...my dad's old Poo on would probably go through it like that also!:msp_tongue:


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## mountainlake (Apr 29, 2012)

KodiakII said:


> The end of that log looks like it is half rotted...my dad's old Poo on would probably go through it like that also!:msp_tongue:



Probably would if it's around 90cc plus. Steve


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## Mastermind (Apr 29, 2012)

KodiakII said:


> The end of that log looks like it is half rotted...my dad's old Poo on would probably go through it like that also!:msp_tongue:



How about walnut?????

Same saw different wood.......

[video=youtube;FuSNYH0-zpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuSNYH0-zpA&feature=plcp[/video]


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## Mastermind (Apr 29, 2012)

Same saw stock.....


[video=youtube;458lrMXvKSY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=458lrMXvKSY&feature=relmfu[/video]


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## Bluefish (Apr 29, 2012)

I tried a 600p in my quest for my first brand new saw in 30 years. Nice saw but kind of wimpy power wise compared to others I have tried in same cc range. Mastermind really brings these to a new level with his technical skills but I feel that I shouldnt have to instantly put 2-300$ into a new saw to make it run the way it should. 
I realize that the husky and stihl I tried would also be greatly boosted by a woods port but they seem to have more guts to begin with. Why? Is it because they cost more? Or is the echo "detuned" to make it last longer? 
I am new to these modern saws and any info would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks, Russ


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## Mastermind (Apr 29, 2012)

Bluefish said:


> I tried a 600p in my quest for my first brand new saw in 30 years. Nice saw but kind of wimpy power wise compared to others I have tried in same cc range. Mastermind really brings these to a new level with his technical skills but I feel that I shouldnt have to instantly put 2-300$ into a new saw to make it run the way it should.
> I realize that the husky and stihl I tried would also be greatly boosted by a woods port but they seem to have more guts to begin with. Why? Is it because they cost more? Or is the echo "detuned" to make it last longer?
> I am new to these modern saws and any info would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks, Russ



What I've found is that the muffler is very restrictive on these new Echos. That and the compression just ain't as high as it should be....


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## Bluefish (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for the info. I love this forum! Russ


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## Mastermind (Apr 29, 2012)

Bluefish said:


> Thanks for the info. I love this forum! Russ



I've done several of these Echos. Most of the time they are sent here directly from the supplier, after the mods I send them on to the owner. I feel that even with the cost of the mods they are a great bargain........but I may be a bit bias in my thinking. :msp_tongue:

A new in the box 60cc saw with compression increase, woods port, custom muffler, tested and tuned....... around 700.00. That's hard to beat.


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## tallguys (Apr 29, 2012)

Bluefish said:


> I realize that the husky and stihl I tried would also be greatly boosted by a woods port but they seem to have more guts to begin with. Why?* Is it because they cost more? Or is the echo "detuned" *to make it last longer?



The answer is probably a bit of both.


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## fatboymoe (Apr 29, 2012)

I would have to agree with Mastermind. My 500p kicks butt after Randy worked it over. I didn't run it stock but the video didn't lie. In stock form, it was a dog. I did run my 600p before I sent it to Brad. The difference was night and day. 

I know that spending an extra 2to3 hundred dollars to get them ported and tuned is a little crazy, but I really think this is in our future for any ***. The EPA, and in my case CARB and the BAAQMD are doing everthing they can to kill ANY 2 stroke engine. It's just a matter of time before everyone in the states will have to deal with the same crap that we in California deal with. I hope I am wrong!!! I wouldn't wish this kind of nonsense on anyone.


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## Bluefish (Apr 29, 2012)

Randy, you have a good point when you look at it that way.
The salespeople I chat with make a big deal about their saws being covered for 5 years and that would go out the window with mods. Then they tell me their saws never come in for work so maybe that is a gamble I could take.
A lot to think about... and the wife says "one saw, get it right!" Oh the pressure... Russ


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## zogger (Apr 29, 2012)

Bluefish said:


> Randy, you have a good point when you look at it that way.
> The salespeople I chat with make a big deal about their saws being covered for 5 years and that would go out the window with mods. Then they tell me their saws never come in for work so maybe that is a gamble I could take.
> A lot to think about... and the wife says "one saw, get it right!" Oh the pressure... Russ



Those are nice saws but learn from my newb with an EPA choked up saw mistake: Absolutely do NOT trust factory stock carb settings on them, they are too lean.

Yes, they have a warranty but all they have to say is "straight gassed" and then you are screwed. When it comes to new two strokes today, don't count on a warranty from anyplace. It's a crapshoot. They count on homeowners not using them enough to hit that roached piston and cylinder level, or leaving old fuel in it or whatever. Warranties are more scam than not. And a pro will void the warranty and do mods the day he gets it, so there ya go.

If you get it from a dealer, make sure they adjust it properly before it goes out the door. If they don't pull the caps and adjust, they ain't a good dealer, try elsewhere. If you get it online for much cheaper, make sure you adjust it properly, richen it up a little.


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## Bluefish (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks Zogger,
car warranties have saved my ass many times, I guess 2 stroke is a different matter. So efco and echo pushing their coverage as a selling point is a bunch of hooey?
Something I need to factor in I guess.
I don't want to start the ubiquitous " Help me pick out a saw" thread but I have a lot of questions. What started out as a 300-350$ investment is now looking like 650-700$ and I want to get it right. Back to the drawing board... Thanks, Russ


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## zogger (Apr 29, 2012)

Bluefish said:


> Thanks Zogger,
> car warranties have saved my ass many times, I guess 2 stroke is a different matter. So efco and echo pushing their coverage as a selling point is a bunch of hooey?
> Something I need to factor in I guess.
> I don't want to start the ubiquitous " Help me pick out a saw" thread but I have a lot of questions. What started out as a 300-350$ investment is now looking like 650-700$ and I want to get it right. Back to the drawing board... Thanks, Russ



I am not saying it is all a buncha hooie, just with two strokes, because you have to mix it yourself and it doesn't last long, shops and manufacturers can just say "straight gassed" and get out of it. It would go dealer by dealer by dealer. 

I was just saying, when you get that echo, you *most likely* will have to richen at least the H screw more counter-clockwise past the limiter stop setting. That requires pulling the cap, and as the owner, you have now voided the warranty. Catch 22. A dealer can do it and most likely get away with it, but he will be 200 bucks higher than you can buy them online (a real dealer, not home depot or lowes). But then you won't roach your saw. 

That 1/8th or a scosh more richening on one screw makes all the difference in the world with them things. I would say most any new expensive saw is the same way, short of the new computer carb controlled saws. They sell them "get permission" from the goobermint to pass emissions at one setting, but it is a wink wink nod nod with savvy dealers and the guys on this site that further more realistic real world adjustment is in order.

How can I put this..a warranty is no substitute for saw performance and longevity compared to a REAL carb tune and proper maintenance. You don't want to turn it in broken for warranty work, if they will do it, you just want the dang thing to run properly, that will require an initial tune, then a retune after break in. If you have a good dealer, they will do this, if you want to save a lot of cash, you can buy online but then you must do it. Gets down to "you make the call" on what you want to do.


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## mountainlake (Apr 29, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I've done several of these Echos. Most of the time they are sent here directly from the supplier, after the mods I send them on to the owner. I feel that even with the cost of the mods they are a great bargain........but I may be a bit bias in my thinking. :msp_tongue:
> 
> A new in the box 60cc saw with compression increase, woods port, custom muffler, tested and tuned....... around 700.00. That's hard to beat.



Real hard to beat when the other 60cc saws are around $700 new and you can bet MM saws will outcut stock 60cc saws by a bunch. As mentioned above if you don't muff a Echo you won't be impressed. Steve


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## mountainlake (Apr 29, 2012)

zogger said:


> I am not saying it is all a buncha hooie, just with two strokes, because you have to mix it yourself and it doesn't last long, shops and manufacturers can just say "straight gassed" and get out of it. It would go dealer by dealer by dealer.
> 
> I was just saying, when you get that echo, you *most likely* will have to richen at least the H screw more counter-clockwise past the limiter stop setting. That requires pulling the cap, and as the owner, you have now voided the warranty. Catch 22. A dealer can do it and most likely get away with it, but he will be 200 bucks higher than you can buy them online (a real dealer, not home depot or lowes). But then you won't roach your saw.
> 
> ...



Pulling the caps and retuning is no big deal, you can put them back on without trimming the tabs. With a muff modd you'ld have to get a new muff if you ever needed warreanty work. Steve


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## SawTroll (Apr 29, 2012)

I find it hard to understand why anyone wants to buy an Echo saw - they are an arrogant brand, that doesn't seem to have any clue to how to port a cylinder for decent power.


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## Mastermind (Apr 29, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I find it hard to understand why anyone wants to buy an Echo saw - they are an arrogant brand, that doesn't seem to have any clue to how to port a cylinder for decent power.



Now Niko, these new Echos are first rate saws.......epa is the thing that keeps them from performing as they should.

I've disassembled many saws......from many manufacturers, these saws are well built.


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## mountainlake (Apr 29, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I find it hard to understand why anyone wants to buy an Echo saw - they are an arrogant brand, that doesn't seem to have any clue to how to port a cylinder for decent power.



They have nice porting with a little lower exhaust port giving them a nice wide powerband unlike some of the peaky Husky saws that fall flat soon as you lean on them a bit. More than Echo is arrogant, how about the die hard Husky- Stihl owner with a narrow mind instead of a narrow power band. Steve


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Apr 29, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I find it hard to understand why anyone wants to buy an Echo saw - they are an arrogant brand, that doesn't seem to have any clue to how to port a cylinder for decent power.


i find it hard to believe one would think that husky is the only saw on the market. i also find hard to believe someone can post crap on here about a saw they have never used. if you spent half as much time actually running saws as you do posting crap about them, you might actualy be able to make a viable point. as stated by people who actualy run them, the cs600 is a great saw once it is fattened up and MM'D. i think the videos more than show that....


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## mountainlake (Apr 29, 2012)

There's several on here that need to watch vids with OPEN eyes. Steve


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## hiluxxulih (Apr 29, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I find it hard to understand why anyone wants to buy an Echo saw - they are an arrogant brand, that doesn't seem to have any clue to how to port a cylinder for decent power.


 
I bought an Echo CS 600-P because I heard they are reliable and actually start easy my last two Stihls an MS 250 and MS 362 have been crap shoot as far as starting reliably , now my 044 starts like a dream , they were probably just duds especially the MS 250 , so far as I am concerned when I pull the starter handle it better start , the kicker was a few weeks ago I was cutting a few dead trees down around the house and the MS 250 and the MS 362 would not start after I sat them down for a few hours so I had to fuel up the ol reliable 044 and finished with that and she ran like a top .


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Apr 29, 2012)

One thing i found about all echo saws, they start easily, and run when needed to.


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## McCulloch1-52 (Apr 30, 2012)

Not too many Echo dealer's here where I am at, not even Jonsered, just Stihl, Husky and the cheap brands.


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## pgg (Apr 30, 2012)

this thread is just too treacly sweet to digest. the echo propaganda machine is cunning and evil. echoes are just very average mediocre-performance. Boring sluggish and lacking all-important torque, an Echo will always stall out under pressure. Totally forgettable saws. Always have been and always will be home-grade saws masquerading as proper pro saws. anyone who knows anything will tell you the wimpy-engined echoes have always been an epic fail when conditions get tough. echo schmecko


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## SawTroll (Apr 30, 2012)

pgg said:


> this thread is just too treacly sweet to digest. the echo propaganda machine is cunning and evil. echoes are just very average mediocre-performance. Boring sluggish and lacking all-important torque, an Echo will always stall out under pressure. Totally forgettable saws. Always have been and always will be home-grade saws masquerading as proper pro saws. anyone who knows anything will tell you the wimpy-engined echoes have always been an epic fail when conditions get tough. echo schmecko



Well said!


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## mountainlake (Apr 30, 2012)

pgg said:


> this thread is just too treacly sweet to digest. the echo propaganda machine is cunning and evil. echoes are just very average mediocre-performance. Boring sluggish and lacking all-important torque, an Echo will always stall out under pressure. Totally forgettable saws. Always have been and always will be home-grade saws masquerading as proper pro saws. anyone who knows anything will tell you the wimpy-engined echoes have always been an epic fail when conditions get tough. echo schmecko



Your one of the few on here that need to watch some vids with open eyes. Steve


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## SawTroll (Apr 30, 2012)

Well, some newer Echos likely are Shindaiwas. Those likely are a bit better than the true Echos, but still far from great - and don't believe the weight and power specs......


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## Cliff R (Apr 30, 2012)

It's one thing to bad mouth a specific model of saw when you have direct experience with it. Degrading an entire product line without ever picking up or using the model(s) that are being referenced here.....folks shouldn't even be allowed to put up a response if you are just pissed off because you knew someone once that bought an Echo and didn't know how to set the carb or straight gassed it, or both, then smoked the P/C. Now they are all junk for sure, when most likely the owner/operator was the problem right to start with......Cliff


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## mountainlake (Apr 30, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Well, some newer Echos likely are Shindaiwas. Those likely are a bit better than the true Echos, but still far from great - and don't believe the weight and power specs......



Pick up a CS500 ,it's light. Steve


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## Bluefish (Apr 30, 2012)

I like Saw Trolls posts but I don't believe they post any HP ratings and the models I have hefted don't "feel" heavy and the 500 seemed light to me. Russ


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## Preston (Apr 30, 2012)

That cutting demonstration was kinda fast. But in my years cutting, and I'll admit here I've not spent all my in the wood cutting, I've never seen a "hollow" pine. Maybe it different other places but I've never seen one in Georgia. Now red oaks, all the time. My 034 will cut about like that in a hollow red oak. :msp_biggrin:


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## SawTroll (Apr 30, 2012)

Bluefish said:


> I like Saw Trolls posts but I don't believe they post any HP ratings and the models I have hefted don't "feel" heavy and the 500 seemed light to me. Russ



There are good reasons that Echo doesn't include power ratings in the specs, but Shindaiwa used to include some very optimistic ones.:msp_wink:


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## Bluefish (Apr 30, 2012)

I understand troll. I am probably gonna bite the bullet and get a 562xp. I am pretty sure that will do all I need and it is also cutting edge technology pardon the pun. Russ


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## Mastermind (Apr 30, 2012)

Preston said:


> That cutting demonstration was kinda fast. But in my years cutting, and I'll admit here I've not spent all my in the wood cutting, I've never seen a "hollow" pine. Maybe it different other places but I've never seen one in Georgia. Now red oaks, all the time. My 034 will cut about like that in a hollow red oak. :msp_biggrin:



That pine was just "hollow" on the end. That's way we left it in the woods...... It was a fair demonstration of the Echo's cutting speed. 

I don't want to come off as a cheerleader for the newer Echo models......I just can't see bashing them either. 



Bluefish said:


> I understand troll. I am probably gonna bite the bullet and get a 562xp. I am pretty sure that will do all I need and it is also cutting edge technology pardon the pun. Russ



I get a real good deal on the 562xp.......... :msp_wink:


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## Chris J. (Apr 30, 2012)

pgg said:


> this thread is just too treacly sweet to digest. the echo propaganda machine is cunning and evil. echoes are just very average mediocre-performance. Boring sluggish and lacking all-important torque, an Echo will always stall out under pressure. Totally forgettable saws. Always have been and always will be home-grade saws masquerading as proper pro saws. anyone who knows anything will tell you the wimpy-engined echoes have always been an epic fail when conditions get tough. echo schmecko



So, pgg, not only have you ran every Echo chainsaw model ever made, but you must also have inside knowledge as to what the Echo & Shindaiwa engineers have planned for their chainsaws. 

Or perhaps you're basing your Echo bashing on very limited experience with only certain Echo chainsaw models.


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## mountainlake (Apr 30, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> So, pgg, not only have you ran every Echo chainsaw model ever made, but you must also have inside knowledge as to what the Echo & Shindaiwa engineers have planned for their chainsaws.
> 
> Or perhaps you're basing your Echo bashing on very limited experience with only certain Echo chainsaw models.



And he has admitted they were never tuned properly. Steve


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## Chris J. (Apr 30, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> And he has admitted they were never tuned properly. Steve



I pretty sure I read somewhere that proper tuning makes a noticeable difference in performance & longevity.

Now if I could just obtain a useable CS-520 p&c on the cheap (yes, shameless spam).


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## bcsizemo (Apr 30, 2012)

Well not everyone that stops by here is cutting for a living either. I'm just a simple homeowner who really likes to tinker and fix stuff. Needless to say I inherited a CS-306 from my father-in-law who isn't the best at keeping up regular maintenance...and well lets just say I learned what not to do on that saw before I found this place. So after trashing that saw I needed something cheap, so I picked up a CS-440 from ebay. I thought about the CS-400 or 450 as they had just came out, but I was in a pinch and no one on here really had a lot to say about them (especially in terms of durability). I know the 440 is heavy and doesn't make great power, but it was a price I wanted to pay (and honestly I liked what I saw in terms of build quality in that 306). After a little cleaning up it fired up and I could tell it was a little off..not horrible, but not great either. Now with all the things I'd seen about muffler mods and the like I went to work on opening it up a little. After it was back together it really needed a tune, so I fiddled with it and fiddled with it. After watching a half dozen videos on here I finally figured out what the "burble" was I should be hearing. Now I don't have a tach or any fancy tools, but I can certainly say just opening up the muffler and tuning the carb by ear gave that saw a lot more life than I ever imagined it would.

Yeah it isn't fast, and it doesn't see a whole lot of use, but every time I pick it up it works. Honestly if I needed a new saw I'd look at 450 or 500, but with as much use as this one sees Echo will probably have a new line out by then. Who knows maybe some new radical electric thing...

I will say if I used a saw for a living I wouldn't count out having an Echo or two, but honestly dealer support and turn around time is probably more important than other aspects when they get used every day.

(And on the topic of CARB and the like, I also have an ECHO blower PB-255 (I think), while the neighbor has a newer PB-250. Needless to say he left gas in it over the winter and it was kind of gummed up...but we got it mostly working. While looking at it and do some research online I'm pretty sure that his new model has a fixed H jet. And honestly all it really needed was a bump up in fuel and it would have been good to go. Fortunately mine was adjustable, and now doesn't stumble when it's cold... I could also rail on about the crap that is ODB2, but that's another board another day.)


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## bryanr2 (Apr 30, 2012)

I loath brand bashing or blind loyalty to a certain brand. I understand having a favorite or recognizing a certain model for it's exceptional performance. Saying that an Echo saw is for the gay community or for the ladies would be like me criticizing any man on here that doesn't drive a diesel pickup just because that is all I drive. It's nonsensical. When did the brand of saw you choose to use become a viable variable in the "pecker measuring contest"? Grouping a brand of saws based upon one bad experience or heresay, is blindly ignorant, and would lead one to believe that the individual is not only shallow but sheltered in their approach to everyday life. I wanted a Husky 346xp but I found a Echo cs520 for free. I spent $200 and sent it to Randy. "Mastermind meets the Echo cs520". Watch the video. I have no need for a 346 or any other 50cc saw. THe Echo fits the bill. I have spent hundreds of hours watching every video, reading thousands of threads, and not one of them has convinced me that I need a 346 just bc it's a 346 and that's what men use. I havent seen a 50cc saw that would whip my 520 so badly that I could justify going out and spending 400-500 on another 50cc saw. A fast limber is a fast limber. At some point moving thru the tangled brush becomes dangerous. Better to make up your time bucking up the logs with the 70cc and up saws.


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## Jredsjeep (Apr 30, 2012)

i have not read through the whole thread but i just picked up a new CS500P and have been steadily running tanks of fuel through it cleaning up my property. so far it is the best saw i have run. sorry no i have not run any of the high doller proffesional grade saws but lots of regular guy ones. i am cutting 3-5 cords a year and doing property clean up. this saw seemed the best bang for buck and i have several dealers just a few miles away from me.

i love it and i really like the 20" bar, i knew it is on the big side for a 50cc but i have to bend less for cutting making cutting more comfertable. i have some older Echos and now a new one, so far they have been great saws for me. i am getting a 16 bar to for backup and lighter work.

i dont know how big that makes my manhood but i really like my new saw.


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## timmcat (Apr 30, 2012)

This will get the troll's attention, I sell both Echo and Jonsered and have worked at both Husky and Stihl dealers. Echo is by far the easiest company to deal with for product support, both before and after the sale. I avoid selling anyone a Jred unless its a 2156, 2172, or 2188. For everyone else I steer them to Echo, they just make more sense for most people, homeowners or pros. The 500p and 600p are two of my best sellers. Sure the 680 and 8000 are freshly painted antiques but, they still cut wood well and no other manufacturer can touch their price. When Echo releases a 65-70 cc saw on the 600p platform the Swedes and Krauts will notice!!


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## wyk (Apr 30, 2012)

[video=youtube;EHq8p-I2Fuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq8p-I2Fuw[/video]

With a little work, they are very impressive saws.

Having used a stock and ported cs-520 for a year in all sorts of weather in logging environments, they are as sturdy as any Husky or Stihl model. And I would rather have a stock 510 or 520 over any stock 026, 260, 55 or 350 any day. I'd prefer a ported 520 over a stock 261 or 346xp any day as well.


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## Arbonaut (Apr 30, 2012)

STIHLTHEDEERE said:


> One thing i found about all echo saws, they start easily, and run when needed to.



That would be a good feature. Sounds like my Stihl 044 Mag. Of course they start good. It's a Shindaiwa.

Good ass reaming on SawTroll by the way. He was past due.


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## Mastermind (Apr 30, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> That would be a good feature. Sounds like my Stihl 044 Mag. Of course they start good. It's a Shindaiwa.
> 
> Good ass reaming on SawTroll by the way. He was past due.



No need to ream the Troll. He's a friend of mine.........a friend that is very opinionated.


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## Arbonaut (Apr 30, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> No need to ream the Troll. He's a friend of mine.........a friend that is very opinionated.



One for you too, Randy. Just for calling me a @xx!u/e without gettin' to know me first. I wouldn't ever send you a saw after that. Do it myself or try to hire DC.


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## Edge & Engine (Apr 30, 2012)

bcsizemo said:


> Well not everyone that stops by here is cutting for a living either. I'm just a simple homeowner who really likes to tinker and fix stuff. Needless to say I inherited a CS-306 from my father-in-law who isn't the best at keeping up regular maintenance...and well lets just say I learned what not to do on that saw before I found this place. So after trashing that saw I needed something cheap, so I picked up a CS-440 from ebay. I thought about the CS-400 or 450 as they had just came out, but I was in a pinch and no one on here really had a lot to say about them (especially in terms of durability). I know the 440 is heavy and doesn't make great power, but it was a price I wanted to pay (and honestly I liked what I saw in terms of build quality in that 306). After a little cleaning up it fired up and I could tell it was a little off..not horrible, but not great either. Now with all the things I'd seen about muffler mods and the like I went to work on opening it up a little. After it was back together it really needed a tune, so I fiddled with it and fiddled with it. After watching a half dozen videos on here I finally figured out what the "burble" was I should be hearing. Now I don't have a tach or any fancy tools, but I can certainly say just opening up the muffler and tuning the carb by ear gave that saw a lot more life than I ever imagined it would.
> 
> Yeah it isn't fast, and it doesn't see a whole lot of use, but every time I pick it up it works. Honestly if I needed a new saw I'd look at 450 or 500, but with as much use as this one sees Echo will probably have a new line out by then. Who knows maybe some new radical electric thing...
> 
> ...



The PB-250 has a fully adjustable carb (As does most current Echo equipment) but you need a special tool to adjust it, and Echo is very strict about this tool staying with dealers only.

We haven't been an Echo dealer for many years, but the few warranty issues we did have were handled fine, in fact we have had the same experience that someone else mentioned earlier, in at least one case they warrantied something (no questions asked) that was almost certainly not Echo's fault.
While Echo has some great saws in their lineup right now, their chainsaws won't be taken seriously by professionals until there's a good 75 or 80cc model. The CS-600P is an awesome saw, but real loggers (at least around here) don't cut with 60cc chainsaws.


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## wyk (Apr 30, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> One for you too, Randy. Just for calling me a @xx!u/e without gettin' to know me first. I wouldn't ever send you a saw after that. Do it myself or try to hire DC.



We're so lucky to have you around. Just plain lucky, I tell you.


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## jerrycmorrow (Apr 30, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> One for you too, Randy. Just for calling me a @xx!u/e without gettin' to know me first. I wouldn't ever send you a saw after that. Do it myself or try to hire DC.



gotta ask. does the foe sh!t?


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## Chris J. (Apr 30, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> That would be a good feature. Sounds like my Stihl 044 Mag. Of course they start good. It's a Shindaiwa.
> 
> Good ass reaming on SawTroll by the way. He was past due.





Woodcutter TV said:


> One for you too, Randy. Just for calling me a @xx!u/e without gettin' to know me first. I wouldn't ever send you a saw after that. Do it myself or try to hire DC.




Most (all?) of the Echo chainsaws mentioned & shown in this thread are pre-Shindaiwa models.

I can't understand why Gologit would say such things about you. :monkey:


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## bryanr2 (Apr 30, 2012)

wyk said:


> [video=youtube;EHq8p-I2Fuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq8p-I2Fuw[/video]
> 
> With a little work, they are very impressive saws.
> 
> Having used a stock and ported cs-520 for a year in all sorts of weather in logging environments, they are as sturdy as any Husky or Stihl model. And I would rather have a stock 510 or 520 over any stock 026, 260, 55 or 350 any day. I'd prefer a ported 520 over a stock 261 or 346xp any day as well.



Thats my saw and the example I was referring too, I just dont know how to post videos. Thanks Wes.


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## Mastermind (Apr 30, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> One for you too, Randy. Just for calling me a @xx!u/e without gettin' to know me first. I wouldn't ever send you a saw after that. Do it myself or try to hire DC.



If I remember correctly I said that you were an ass hole. 

I stand by my assessment. :msp_smile:

Oh and for the record.......I don't wanna work on your crappy saws. :msp_biggrin:


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## Bluefish (Apr 30, 2012)

Troll has his opinion and he is entitled to it. From where I stand he seems to know quite a bit about saws.
I have learned a lot from him in my short time here. Just sayin'... Russ


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## bryanr2 (Apr 30, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> Thats my saw and the example I was referring too, I just dont know how to post videos. Thanks Wes.



And that video is a Mastermind build. His work is of the highest quality, and he is a deeply respected, high caliber individual. Soon there will be a waiting list. . If someone chooses to not send him a saw, that just makes my wait a little shorter.


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## In The Weeds (Apr 30, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> And that video is a Mastermind build. His work is of the highest quality, and he is a deeply respected, high caliber individual. Soon there will be a waiting list. . If someone chooses to not send him a saw, that just makes my wait a little shorter.


Nice Kiss.

My brother in law has a mid range Echo and he likes it fine. He uses it for an occasional tree that falls down in a storm and such and its perfect for him since it is very reliable and trouble-free. Perhaps Echo is a good choice as a homeowner saw if not anything else?


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## bryanr2 (Apr 30, 2012)

In The Weeds said:


> Nice Kiss.
> 
> My brother in law has a mid range Echo and he likes it fine. He uses it for an occasional tree that falls down in a storm and such and its perfect for him since it is very reliable and trouble-free. Perhaps Echo is a good choice as a homeowner saw if not anything else?




 Really? Was that what it was? Did you write it? I applaud your insight. However, I stand by my statement. Regards to you and yours from TN.


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## 50:1 (Apr 30, 2012)

My only problem with echo that keeps me away from their saws is their rpm run lower than stihls and huskys. Several are in the 12,500 range when I want a 13,000 plus rpm saw. I had an echo cs340 and I could feel it just bump along through the cut because of the low rpm. Some do have 13,000 plus but alot of them don't. Speed is a what it's all about in todays saws and to not have that put's you at the back of the line.


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Apr 30, 2012)

50:1 said:


> My only problem with echo that keeps me away from their saws is their rpm run lower than stihls and huskys. Several are in the 12,500 range when I want a 13,000 plus rpm saw. I had an echo cs340 and I could feel it just bump along through the cut because of the low rpm. Some do have 13,000 plus but alot of them don't. Speed is a what it's all about in todays saws and to not have that put's you at the back of the line.


it is all about sustained RPM in the cut. both of my cs-600p's run comparable RPM's under a load as my 362's, and my gladly gone and forgotten all mighty 562 X-TRA P-lastic. who really cares what a saw will turn fully leaned out @ WOT out of the cut.


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## Cliff R (Apr 30, 2012)

The CS-340 is an old Reed Valve design, and they are very slow, and don't compare anyplace to Echo's newer piston ported models....FWIW.....Cliff


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## bryanr2 (Apr 30, 2012)

There is a brand new never used Echo 600p on Ashville NC craiglist with 2 bars for $400.00

its listed under chain saw not chainsaw.


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Apr 30, 2012)

50:1 said:


> My only problem with echo that keeps me away from their saws is their rpm run lower than stihls and huskys. Several are in the 12,500 range when I want a 13,000 plus rpm saw. I had an echo cs340 and I could feel it just bump along through the cut because of the low rpm. Some do have 13,000 plus but alot of them don't. Speed is a what it's all about in todays saws and to not have that put's you at the back of the line.


 watch MASTERMIND/BLSNELLING video's of the cs-600p, and tell me those saws aren't turning some revs.


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## Arbonaut (Apr 30, 2012)

wyk said:


> We're so lucky to have you around. Just plain lucky, I tell you.



Thanx, Man. You Too.


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## Arbonaut (Apr 30, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> Most (all?) of the Echo chainsaws mentioned & shown in this thread are pre-Shindaiwa models.
> 
> I can't understand why Gologit would say such things about you. :monkey:



Me neither. He must be a leftist.

If we're discussing the pre-Shindaiwan Echos, They _did_ take a long time to catch on.

I wish the ISA would go back to Shindaiwa as the official saw, even though they ran 1/4 pitch chain. The Echos today are making a stir.


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## gmax (May 1, 2012)

I've never used any Echo saws but I would like to try a Echo 600p, I'm certainly not going to criticize any Brand/model without trying it first. 
Reading Spec sheets just doesn't cut it :msp_wink:


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## mountainlake (May 1, 2012)

What's with all this Shindaiwa stuff, my Echo saws have been a lot faster cutting the my Shindaiwa saws like my CS520 saws cut a lot faster than my 488, not even close. So far the only that has Shindawia in it is the CS500 and maybe a small top handle saw. Echo did good to pick the 50 cc Shinny for it's light wieght and hopefully has Echo porting in it. That MM ported CS520 above will put a lot of saws to shame. Steve


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## Cliff R (May 1, 2012)

+1

My CS-510 muffler modded was a LOT faster than my muffler modded Shindaiwa 488. The 488 was built on a very tough chassis, but no comparison in power and cutting speed to the CS-510.

To date, pound for pound, the CS-510 has been the most impressive Echo saw I've had in the line-up. Others have included a CS-440, two CS-670's, CS-6700, and CS-800. I ditched the others finding them not on par anyplace with my larger Husqvarna saws.

I kept the CS-370's around simply because they are great little limbing saws, nimble, good torque for the cc's and dead solid reliable. If you expect fast cutting and chain speed from them, you will be somewhat disappointed. There are good mid-range saws and PLENTY of "grunt" for the cc's.....Cliff


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## Saw Dr. (May 1, 2012)

What is an Echo? 


Ha ha, just kidding. I just got word that one of my local haunts is going to become an Echo dealer. I am pretty stoked about this! The only thing that bugs me about Echo is the stupid round bore carbs they insist on using on some of the trimmers and blowers. Good thing they're cheap enough to just replace them complete. The guys complaining about Echo saws not having the highest performance crack me up. At most, we're talking about a few percent. A dull or improperly sharpened chain will cost more than a few percent in cutting performance. I am not a brand snob, but I do hate cutting with a dull chain.


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## In The Weeds (May 1, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> Really? Was that what it was? Did you write it? I applaud your insight. However, I stand by my statement. Regards to you and yours from TN.



I think it was the "deeply respected high caliber individual" part that seemed laying it on a little thick yeah. I've heard nothing but good stuff about his work on here which shows hes a professional but he's not running for president last I knew.


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## bryanr2 (May 1, 2012)

In The Weeds said:


> I think it was the "deeply respected high caliber" part that seemed laying it on a little thick yeah. I've heard nothing but good stuff about his work on here which shows hes a professional but he's not running for president last I knew.



Low blow nontheless friend. Since the first of the year I have had 5 saws ported in that shop. I bought a Husky 288 from him, had him mod my Stihl fs250 trimmer, go thru my br 400 blower, and rebuild a stihl 041 chainsaw that I have traded. All of which I paid for. And I have three more pieces of equiptment going to him on my next trip. So I am entitled to my opinion- I dont benefit from complimenting a friend, other than expressing appreciation for his work. My opinion of Randy is both a conglomeration of what I have read and percieved thru reading thousands of threads over the course of a year before I ever made a first post, and from my own personal experience doing business with him. Again, regards from TN.


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## In The Weeds (May 1, 2012)

Ok, my bad. I've got nothing against you, honestly, just was feeling a little feisty that day lol. Werent meant to be a "low blow", just a jab. Gotta remember too hes getting money in exchange for his services which is the #1 show of appreciation in my book :cool2:.


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## Michigan Muscle (May 2, 2012)

Woodcutter TV said:


> Me neither. He must be a leftist.
> 
> If we're discussing the pre-Shindaiwan Echos, They _did_ take a long time to catch on.
> 
> I wish the ISA would go back to Shindaiwa as the official saw, even though they ran 1/4 pitch chain. The Echos today are making a stir.



Hey, I recently got my hands on an older CS-650 EVL (1983 or 84?). I ended up putting some new diaphragms/gaskets/needle into the Walbro HDB carb, new fuel lines, new fuel filter, and cleaned it up really well. Tuned it up, and lemme say - this thing is an animal. Very high torque - I can lean into a cut (with most my 230 lbs), and it doesn't even bog down. Do you know if this one is a "pre-Shindaiwa" model? *I do have some pics of it on my profile albums section*


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## mountainlake (May 2, 2012)

About the only models so far with any Shindaiwa in them are the CS500 and maybe a small top handle, they just got toeghter a couple years age. Steve


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## redunshee (May 2, 2012)

Michigan Muscle said:


> Hey, I recently got my hands on an older CS-650 EVL (1983 or 84?). I ended up putting some new diaphragms/gaskets/needle into the Walbro HDB carb, new fuel lines, new fuel filter, and cleaned it up really well. Tuned it up, and lemme say - this thing is an animal. Very high torque - I can lean into a cut (with most my 230 lbs), and it doesn't even bog down. Do you know if this one is a "pre-Shindaiwa" model? *I do have some pics of it on my profile albums section*



Definetly pre Shinny. 650 and 660 very similar.


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## Michigan Muscle (May 2, 2012)

redunshee said:


> Definetly pre Shinny. 650 and 660 very similar.



Thats what I've heard. I did also find out through a buddy of mine that worked for Echo when these 650's were rolling out, that they are 65 cc's, and while they (Echo) won't disclose the Hp ratings, he recalls the 650 EVL's being 4.5 Hp. Anyways - thanks for the follow up. Good info to know.


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## hiluxxulih (May 3, 2012)

I am still liking my 600-p but I would rather have the black Echo branded bar instead of the Oregon power match bar that is on it , it had a 24" black Echo branded bar but I wanted a 20" and they just put an Oregon bar on it , I know they are the same bars but I like the black look .


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## jerrycmorrow (May 3, 2012)

hiluxxulih said:


> I am still liking my 600-p but I would rather have the black Echo branded bar instead of the Oregon power match bar that is on it , it had a 24" black Echo branded bar but I wanted a 20" and they just put an Oregon bar on it , I know they are the same bars but I like the black look .



paint it with black and coat it with clearcoat


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## hiluxxulih (May 3, 2012)

Another thing I contacted Echo about my saw to inquire if it is the new improved CS600-P and according to Echo the improved models started production in August 2011 and mine is October 2011 build date .


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## zogger (May 3, 2012)

hiluxxulih said:


> Another thing I contacted Echo about my saw to inquire if it is the new improved CS600-P and according to Echo the improved models started production in August 2011 and mine is October 2011 build date .



Did you find out exactly what has been changed? I know they went to a metal handlebar, what else?


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## Mastermind (May 3, 2012)

I'm not sure what they have done or if they acknowledged that there was a problem with the carbs, but on the earlier CS600s I've had issues with the low side adjustment. They are very finicky. In order to get good throttle response the low jet must be out too much.....this causes the saw to be too rich on the high side, never clearing out in the cut.

It takes some tweaking of the throttle butterfly to get it right. I've been considering drilling the idle passage a bit oversize.....


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## hiluxxulih (May 4, 2012)

zogger said:


> Did you find out exactly what has been changed? I know they went to a metal handlebar, what else?



They did not say what the improvements were just when they were entered into production .


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## hiluxxulih (May 6, 2012)

I scored me a proper 20" black Echo branded bar on EBay a few days ago


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## a. palmer jr. (May 6, 2012)

hiluxxulih said:


> I scored me a proper 20" black Echo branded bar on EBay a few days ago



What did it sell for?


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## spike60 (May 6, 2012)

I only read a few posts in this thread. The predictable arguments between the usual antagonists didn't take too long to show up. :msp_sad:

But to answer the OP's actual question, Echos are not catching on and they aren't going to. And that's not a knock on Echo product which has always been decent stuff. Two weeks ago I got to run an old 650 something twin cylinder, and it was a really cool saw. The new saws, like the 600 that you guys are talking about is also a nice item. And most Echo saws in between those two have been fine. 

The reality in the saw world, and it's not gonna change, is that Husky and Stihl are the only two brands on the lead lap. They literally own the market. They are usually perceived as competing with each other for top dog status, which in many ways is true. But if you look back over the last 20 years, they have captured market share not so much from each other, but from everyone else who are now left clinging to single digit market share. 

One of the things guys on forums such as this can get fooled by is the "this is the saw" false hope. What I mean by that is the thought that a new model from a second tier company is going to be the one that turns the market on it's head and actually moves the needle. The Echo 600 is a fine saw, but there have been other great saws that also held out this false promise. Dolmar 120SI, Olympyk 970. The Dolmar 7900 would be a more recent example. All great saws in and of themselves, but only a small piece of the puzzle needed to gain traction in the saw market. 

You take a broad angle look at the size and strength of what Husky and Stihl have going for them and the idea that any other company is going to have any significant impact on them is simply not realistic.


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## mountainlake (May 6, 2012)

It will take time but Husky and Stihl cheaply made homeowner saws will hurt thier sales. Wasn't that long ago you couldn't buy cheap saws from either. Steve


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## spike60 (May 6, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> It will take time but Husky and Stihl cheaply made homeowner saws will hurt thier sales. Wasn't that long ago you couldn't buy cheap saws from either. Steve



Actually, just the opposite is taking place. The pro market is unaffected by the lower priced models that these companies offer. The pro saws from both Husky and Stihl are as good as they've ever been. Guys that run 372's, 562's, MS441's and MS660's could care less what those companies are offering to the homeowners. 

But both companies have seen explosive growth in the non-pro markets since they began offering saws at those lower price points. Again, that growth has not come at each other's expense, but from other companies who were trying to compete in the homeowner market. 

First they gobbled up the pro market, and then they went out and dominated the homeowner market.


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## bryanr2 (May 6, 2012)

spike60 said:


> I only read a few posts in this thread. The predictable arguments between the usual antagonists didn't take too long to show up. :msp_sad:
> 
> But to answer the OP's actual question, Echos are not catching on and they aren't going to. And that's not a knock on Echo product which has always been decent stuff. Two weeks ago I got to run an old 650 something twin cylinder, and it was a really cool saw. The new saws, like the 600 that you guys are talking about is also a nice item. And most Echo saws in between those two have been fine.
> 
> ...



That is without a doubt, the most sensible thing I have read on here in a long time. Great insight!


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## mountainlake (May 6, 2012)

spike60 said:


> Actually, just the opposite is taking place. The pro market is unaffected by the lower priced models that these companies offer. The pro saws from both Husky and Stihl are as good as they've ever been. Guys that run 372's, 562's, MS441's and MS660's could care less what those companies are offering to the homeowners.
> 
> But both companies have seen explosive growth in the non-pro markets since they began offering saws at those lower price points. Again, that growth has not come at each other's expense, but from other companies who were trying to compete in the homeowner market.
> 
> First they gobbled up the pro market, and then they went out and dominated the homeowner market.



Agreed the pro market will stay the same but I know quite a few people who don't think much Stihl and Husky homeowner saws anymore which will hurt thier name which got made by selling only high quality saws a few years back. The higher quality saws like Echo, Dolmar ,Efco will bite into the Stihl -Husky homeowner sales which I'd guess is a lot of thier market. It takes a long time to earn a good name and not to long to ruin it with low qualty products, ask Polaris which went from a 75% market share to around 15% by putting out low quality machines. Out on saw jobs I let Husky and Stiihl owners use my CS400 and almost without fail they ask where I got it, how much it cost. Echo , Dolmar and Efco will bite into the Stihl and Husky homeowner market . Steve


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## hiluxxulih (May 6, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> What did it sell for?



It was $25 with $11 shipping .


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## hiluxxulih (May 6, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Agreed the pro market will stay the same but I know quite a few people who don't think much Stihl and Husky homeowner saws anymore which will hurt thier name which got made by selling only high quality saws a few years back. The higher quality saws like Echo, Dolmar ,Efco will bite into the Stihl -Husky homeowner sales which I'd guess is a lot of thier market. It takes a long time to earn a good name and not to long to ruin it with low qualty products, ask Polaris which went from a 75% market share to around 15% by putting out low quality machines. Steve


 The main reason I bought my Echo is because it seems like I have to say three hail Marys every time I start my last two Stihls a MS250 and MS 362 I finaly got my MS 250 to start yesterday to help cut a stump out of the ground , I am cleaning it and the Echo up now .


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## mountainlake (May 6, 2012)

[First they gobbled up the pro market, and then they went out and dominated the homeowner market.[/QUOTE]

They have dominated the homeowner market living off thier name, it won't last putting out low quality saws. I have no respect for a lot of companys that used to be good names . Delta, Powermatic, Maytag, Ingersol Rand just to name a few. Stihl and Husky are headed the same way. Steve


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## zogger (May 6, 2012)

spike60 said:


> I only read a few posts in this thread. The predictable arguments between the usual antagonists didn't take too long to show up. :msp_sad:
> 
> But to answer the OP's actual question, Echos are not catching on and they aren't going to. And that's not a knock on Echo product which has always been decent stuff. Two weeks ago I got to run an old 650 something twin cylinder, and it was a really cool saw. The new saws, like the 600 that you guys are talking about is also a nice item. And most Echo saws in between those two have been fine.
> 
> ...



You never know in the future though. Look at the rise of the Japanese car companies, etc, say between 1975 and 2000. One generation, things can change. Husky and Stihl dominate *now*, but it isn't carved in stone that will always be the case. Could be ten years from now some unknown Chinese company will bingo to quality control, make their own saw, not a clone, but their own saw, and come in one half the price at both home owner and pro levels.

Not saying it *will* happen, but it's totally within the realm of possibility.


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2012)

zogger said:


> You never know in the future though. Look at the rise of the Japanese car companies, etc, say between 1975 and 2000. One generation, things can change. Husky and Stihl dominate *now*, but it isn't carved in stone that will always be the case. Could be ten years from now some unknown Chinese company will bingo to quality control, make their own saw, not a clone, but their own saw, and come in one half the price at both home owner and pro levels.
> 
> Not saying it *will* happen, but it's totally within the realm of possibility.



Very true. McCulloch was the cat's ass for a good long while......


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## PJF1313 (May 6, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Very true. McCulloch was the cat's ass for a good long while......



What brought them down? 

The mini-mac's?




Is it like Husky selling to the box stores? 

I'd hate to see them die like that!


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2012)

PJF1313 said:


> What brought them down?
> 
> The mini-mac's?
> 
> ...



Well if they are like many other companies. The guy that started it got older.........his offspring were spoiled by the good life his hard work have provided for them making them to damn sorry to take proper care of anything........let alone a large company. They ran it into the ground then sold it. 

This is all speculation BTW.......but it seems to be the American way these days.


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## spike60 (May 6, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> [First they gobbled up the pro market, and then they went out and dominated the homeowner market.



They have dominated the homeowner market living off thier name, it won't last putting out low quality saws. I have no respect for a lot of companys that used to be good names . Delta, Powermatic, Maytag, Ingersol Rand just to name a few. Stihl and Husky are headed the same way. Steve[/QUOTE]

Steve, a short while back I'd have made the same prediction as you. It seems to make sense doesn't it that if you lower your quality, it's just a matter of time before the roof caves in. Look what happened to Homelite and McCulloch, right? 

But this is different. Husky and Stihl haven't lowered their quality on their pro stuff, they have simply entered new markets at lower price points. Homelite and McCulloch completely abandoned the pro and serious user market and put all their eggs in the mass retail basket. Comparing them really doesn't work.

Other than the Poulan based Huskys and a couple of the cheapest Stihls, I disagree that any other company is offering superior saws to homeowners. At best, they might at least equal what Husky and Stihl have to offer, and even then only in the smaller saws. As much as they get kicked around here on the site, 455 ranchers and MS290's are still the best deals out there for a guy who wants to pull a 20" 3/8 chain. Granted, either of those saws are liable to disappoint someone who owned an 028 wood boss for 30 some years. But overall, they are super reliable and will do everything their owners ask of them.

Also, with just a very few exceptions, no other company really has anything that equals the top pro models from Husky and Stihl. And a fair amount of homeowner types do buy the pro models from both companies. 

But the final word that is going to seal the fate of the second tier companies is: Technology. Things like Auto-Tune and M-Tronic are being developed by the big boys with big market share and big budgets. Other companies like Dolmar are just now adding cat mufflers and are unfortuately probably going to fall further behind. 

Hard to say with Echo though. Although they are not a player in the saw biz, they are a solid player in the blower and trimmer market and have good distribution and a decent dealer network. Certainly big enough to stay in the game here in the US. But as far as saws go, there's just too many headwinds for them to gain anything against Husky or Stihl. 

Is this a good thing? Even being a Husky/Jonsered dealer, my sentiments are "Nah, I don't think so." It would all be a lot more interesting if more of these companies were a significant factor in the saw biz. Not to mention all of the names that are no longer with us. 

But even for those that remain, their biggest problem is still what it's always been: Themselves. They've all been here 30-40 years or more and have had plenty of time to get their acts together. Whether it's been poor products or poor marketing or both, they've just never gotten it done. It's not likely to change anytime soon.


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## cuttingintime (May 6, 2012)

Unlike some here who seem to have a uncanny ability to respond to threads about saw they do not own. I on the other hand own just 2 echo one was bought new 12 or 15 years ago still goes out trimming ever week or so. put a new oilier in it once. the other was bought used really traded for a debit other than be heavy as the burden of truth it works well. That said my go too saw is ms260.


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## mountainlake (May 7, 2012)

Time will tell what happens, it took diehard Polaris fans about 20 years to figure that the quality wasn't there anymore but they didn't build any good quality products like pro Husky and Stihl saws. With anything but thier pro saws everyone is better off with a different brand which are built better, lighter, have more power per cc and cost about the same. As I mentioned before most everyone that uses my Echo saws want to know where i got them, how much they cost and the most are Husky Stihl owners. The it's a Stihl mentallity won't last forever. Steve


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## a. palmer jr. (May 7, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Time will tell what happens, it took diehard Polaris fans about 20 years to figure that the quality wasn't there anymore but they didn't build any good quality products like pro Husky and Stihl saws. With anything but thier pro saws everyone is better off with a different brand which are built better, lighter, have more power per cc and cost about the same. As I mentioned before most everyone that uses my Echo saws want to know where i got them, how much they cost and the most are Husky Stihl owners. The it's a Stihl mentallity won't last forever. Steve



If people like their Stihl saws so well they should probably hang onto their old ones...


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## SilverKing (Jun 4, 2012)

Bought an Echo CS 670 used a few years ago.Underpowered,over rated.Was heavy and the anti vibe left a lot to be deisred.Anyhow,all it really takes is a few hyped up saws that dont live up to their reputation to ruin a company


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## wyk (Jun 4, 2012)

While I somewhat agree with Spike, I also contend there is no 'catching on' to do. Echo sells plenty of small engine equipment. At their price point, Stihl and Husqvarna have a difficult time competing with their pro saws, and their homeowner equipment isn't up to snuff for arborists and landscapers - Echo's primary target. Echo 'caught on' with these folks a long time ago. Neither Echo nor Dolmar have the delusion of toppling Stihl or Husky, and I seriously doubt anyone here thinks that as well. However, Yamabiko earned over $1B last year, so we are likely to see further investment and development in the Echo brand. Well, assuming Japan's economy doesn't melt down themselves any further than they already have(no pun intended!)As Spike eluded to, some folks get a bit wrapped up in hype, and some folks tend to take things a bit personally. It's an internet forum - ask the moderators how much work it is preventing an all out war much of the time.


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## Bob Wright (Jun 4, 2012)

I just took ownership of 100 truck loads of downed wood a few days ago. So tonight i took my trusty Echo CS-315 that i bought 35 years ago with me. My buddies Stihl wouldn't start (again) so we used mine...Bob


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## homelitejim (Jun 4, 2012)

I just won a Echo CS400 and got to use it this weekend, I am impressed, I had the impression that I would be using a ho-hum heavy underpowered POS that I would quickly be boxing back up and selling, but nooooo, this saw reminds me of my Stihl MS250, and it is 5cc smaller with an adjustable oilier.


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## fossil (Jun 4, 2012)

I have 2 Echo’s. A cs-310, great limbing saw for clearing trails and a CS-6700. Like them both. Start and run well. The thing that drives me nuts where I live is that when you need a part it doesn't matter what I need; the answer from all the Echo dealers is "we don't stock that". I've never found anything they do stock except safety chains, saws and oil. Three weeks later still no part. If I need something for my Stihl 026 I phone the shop and have the part same day or at most 2 days later. 
If Echo's parts distribution was better I would be more impressed but the service they dish up around here doesn't make me want to buy another one. Exactly like buying parts for a throw away saw.
I don't expect the dealers in the city to stock a ton of parts but they should be able to get them in 24 hrs.


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## rmotoman (Jun 4, 2012)

homelitejim said:


> I just won a Echo CS400 and got to use it this weekend, I am impressed, I had the impression that I would be using a ho-hum heavy underpowered POS that I would quickly be boxing back up and selling, but nooooo, this saw reminds me of my Stihl MS250, and it is 5cc smaller with an adjustable oilier.



Do a muffler mod and put vxl chain on it. Then you will be impressed.


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## mountainlake (Jun 5, 2012)

fossil said:


> I have 2 Echo’s. A cs-310, great limbing saw for clearing trails and a CS-6700. Like them both. Start and run well. The thing that drives me nuts where I live is that when you need a part it doesn't matter what I need; the answer from all the Echo dealers is "we don't stock that". I've never found anything they do stock except safety chains, saws and oil. Three weeks later still no part. If I need something for my Stihl 026 I phone the shop and have the part same day or at most 2 days later.
> If Echo's parts distribution was better I would be more impressed but the service they dish up around here doesn't make me want to buy another one. Exactly like buying parts for a throw away saw.
> I don't expect the dealers in the city to stock a ton of parts but they should be able to get them in 24 hrs.




There's more than one online parts place for Echo parts with good parts look up . Priced real good compared to Stihl over priced parts and most times they'll arive in a few days. With more trhan one saw waiting for few days shouldn't matter. Steve


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## mountainlake (Jun 5, 2012)

rmotoman said:


> Do a muffler mod and put vxl chain on it. Then you will be impressed.



I think you meant real impressed. Steve


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## fossil (Jun 5, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> There's more than one online parts place for Echo parts with good parts look up . Priced real good compared to Stihl over priced parts and most times they'll arive in a few days. With more trhan one saw waiting for few days shouldn't matter. Steve



The shipping cost to Canada often drives the cost up too high.


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## Preston (Jun 5, 2012)

Well I've read these post and see now that so much of this discussion is base on the " my Schwinn bicycle is faster than your Murray". I'll straight about it, I've owned two chain saws. Poulan and my 034 Stihl. I'm not here to say the 034 is better than anybody's saw. But it works for me and that's what it's all about. The Poulan I let my brother use and never saw it again. That was a fun saw. One thing I have noticed. My 034 was priced at $345 25 years ago when we bought it. I saw one on CS last week for $300. I would saw they are holding their value pretty good. I am looking a buying a Pioneer I saw for sale just south of me. $60 won't kill me is it is a dog. :biggrin:


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## tallguys (Jun 5, 2012)

fossil said:


> The shipping cost to Canada often drives the cost up too high.



Shipping to Canada often ruins any price discount advantage. Kinda sucks most times.

Where in S.Ontario are you?


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## fossil (Jun 5, 2012)

tallguys said:


> Shipping to Canada often ruins any price discount advantage. Kinda sucks most times.
> 
> Where in S.Ontario are you?



Brampton


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## tallguys (Jun 5, 2012)

fossil said:


> Brampton



There is an Echo/Husqvarna dealer in Mississauga around Dixie/Dundas that should have parts in stock. They sell/service commercial and municipal accounts.


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## fossil (Jun 5, 2012)

tallguys said:


> There is an Echo/Husqvarna dealer in Mississauga around Dixie/Dundas that should have parts in stock. They sell/service commercial and municipal accounts.



Thanks for the tip. I haven't tried them yet but will next time.

Where are you located?


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## tallguys (Jun 5, 2012)

fossil said:


> Thanks for the tip. I haven't tried them yet but will next time.
> 
> Where are you located?




Etobicoke


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## Bob Wright (Jun 5, 2012)

Preston said:


> Well I've read these post and see now that so much of this discussion is base on the " my Schwinn bicycle is faster than your Murray".



I have a fast Schwinn. Its a tandem and 2 people can really make it go. Passed a Honda doing about 35 one day...Bob


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## Preston (Jun 5, 2012)

There ya go.


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## fossil (Jun 5, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I have a fast Schwinn. Its a tandem and 2 people can really make it go. Passed a Honda doing about 35 one day...Bob



I see a chainsaw motor on that in future, maybe two.


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## homelitejim (Jun 6, 2012)

I picked up a yellow Echo today, needs a carb kit but still wanted to run.


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## zogger (Jun 6, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I have a fast Schwinn. Its a tandem and 2 people can really make it go. Passed a Honda doing about 35 one day...Bob



I got pulled over by a deputy who was running a radar gun, on my schwinn once...doing 70 I found out. In between laughing he was giving me a lecture on speeding and passing cars on the centerline....(yes, going downhill)


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## Bob Wright (Jun 6, 2012)

fossil said:


> I see a chainsaw motor on that in future, maybe two.



My saws all run the wrong way to put on a bike but i have thought more than once of having a CS-60S powered bike...Bob
hello from michigan - Motorized Bicycle: Engine Kit Forum


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## fossil (Jun 29, 2012)

tallguys said:


> There is an Echo/Husqvarna dealer in Mississauga around Dixie/Dundas that should have parts in stock. They sell/service commercial and municipal accounts.



Thanks for referring me to these guys. They had to order the part and did so with no deposit. I got it 2 days later.


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## tallguys (Jun 29, 2012)

fossil said:


> Thanks for referring me to these guys. They had to order the part and did so with no deposit. I got it 2 days later.




You're welcome. I try to be helpful every now and then. :msp_smile:


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## a. palmer jr. (Jun 29, 2012)

I've been searching for a parts saw for my John Deere 80EV which I think is about like an Echo 750EVL. Ebay seems to be fresh out of them. Anybody got anything like that they'd want to part with? What I need the worst is the ignition coils but there a few other things I could use also.


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## ChadB74 (Jan 1, 2019)

My neighbor is an Echo dealer, and I bought a 590 from him, got both the 20" and 24" bar, love it. I've used Stihl saws, good, no conplaints, won't go near big box store junk (Husqvarna, Poulan, etc). The 590 flat screams through everything from Osage Orange to cottonwood.


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## Little Al (Jan 1, 2019)

ChadB74 said:


> My neighbor is an Echo dealer, and I bought a 590 from him, got both the 20" and 24" bar, love it. I've used Stihl saws, good, no conplaints, won't go near big box store junk (Husqvarna, Poulan, etc). The 590 flat screams through everything from Osage Orange to cottonwood.



Husky &Poulan do other models other than the Box Store models most current brands bhave good "un"& turds "


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## mountainlake (Jan 1, 2019)

Husky for sure makes some good saws, I think Poulans last good one was 30 years ago. Steve


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