# What grinder to get to do stuff I can't do with my Apline Magnum?



## peterng (Apr 21, 2011)

So I've run the Alpine for a couple of years now. I do all the stumps for 2 local tree service companys. 

It's great at what it does well and it definately has a limit. I'll do 9 jack pines in three hours no problem. But I'm not overly interested in hanging off the end of it for 3-4 hours on one stump. The teeth are the lynch pin of the system. Rocky ground is hard on teeth. I'd like a grinder that doesn't mind the rocks as bad and can take care of some of the bigger stumps.

I'm really interested in getting another grinder now. I like the idea of self propelled but I'll let you tell me what you would get.

Thanks,
Pete


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## jhg (Apr 21, 2011)

A Vermeer 252 like mine w/25hp is very tooth sensitive also. It is way more productive if I keep sharp teeth on it and therefore I do.

The Carlton w/stock 35hp and the Sandvic is less so, but its underpowered IMO just like the 252 is with 25/27hp. But it can produce longer- ie with dull teeth when the 252 would demand a change. I often run my 252 side by side the 4012 and do pretty well against it.
I use yellowjacket teeth. This is really a nice system and makes it easy to keep good teeth on the wheel. You won't change teeth out enough if you have to reach for that 270lb torque wrench every time a tooth needs attention.

I do have rocks but nothing like some of you guys. If I start hitting rock I will be changing teeth soon.

A smart operator is the most important part of any stump grinder. Keep that in mind and you will do well.

Joshua


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## TimberMcPherson (Apr 21, 2011)

A warning about the magnums, they are tough on your joints, they will make you an old man faster than most machines arborists would come across. Great piece of kit, but a grinder at both ends.
I have been thinking of having greenteeth set up for mine and getting a wheel engineered to suit.

Best see whats operating well in your area gear wise, look at how you haul, how you like to work and most importantly, what your clients are asking for. Use the search feature well and this place is a goldmine. I am currently looking at upgrading to a dosko 691.


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## angry beaver (Apr 22, 2011)

I bought a used Rayco Mini-Workforce which is a self-propelled 20hp handlebar type machine. Works well on stumps up to about 30" diameter. Anything larger than that I send to a friend. This type of machine will give you a workout but, hey, no more gym fees! My unit paid for itself in less than 5 months! These can normally be bought in the $4,000+ range in good condition. Make sure the unit you buy is "SELF-PROPELLED", you don't want to be pushing 600 lbs. around and then have to grind with it! Good Luck!


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## peterng (Apr 22, 2011)

I think I'm really leaning towards a larger diesel unit. in the 60hp range at least. I only need to handle the big stuff. Remote control as well. I don't want to be standing in the dust any more than I am now. 

I can't see justifying a $46000 price with the volume of work I have.

Best Listings Site on the Web!

may have to be the way to go. but you never know what you're getting, who owned it, how diligent they were ?? I think time will solve this issue.

here's a deal !!

http://equipment.treetrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=9716

had to laugh since I saw old Harv took it hard in a couple of past posts


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## Plyscamp (Apr 23, 2011)

There is a Carlton 7015 with 462 hours on it for 19,500.00 on the San Diego Craigslist.


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## gr8scott72 (Apr 23, 2011)

peterng said:


> I think I'm really leaning towards a larger diesel unit. in the 60hp range at least. I only need to handle the big stuff. Remote control as well. I don't want to be standing in the dust any more than I am now.
> 
> I can't see justifying a $46000 price with the volume of work I have.
> 
> ...


 
Run away fast from anything from Harv. You will be wasting your time even just looking at it. You will be dumping money into it faster than you can imagine if you actually buy it.

That machine has WAY more hours on it than just 247. That rock shield around the cutter head is already showing way more wear than those hours. Bet it has a new hour meter and a new (sloppy) paint job. If you don't believe me, call Harv, get the VIN, call Carlton, see who originally owned it, and then call them and see how many hours it had when they sold it.



If you're looking for a stump grinder to go with your alpine, I suggest getting the biggest self-propelled grinder you can afford. The 25-35 hp grinders won't be much faster than your alpine but will be much easier to use. If you step up to the 60 hp range, you will have a great combo and be able to do basically any stump.


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## jhg (Apr 23, 2011)

gr8scott72 said:


> ...The 25-35 hp grinders won't be much faster than your alpine but will be much easier to use. ...




SNORK! 

If I couldn't grind out a stump at least twice as fast as an Alpine take me out back and shoot me. I think the rest of your advice is sound, but "won't be much faster"? C'mon now, 25-35hp grinders are not otherworldly, but they do grind stumps much faster than an alpine in the hands of a decent operator and if they are set up well. Not knocking Alpines, just not accepting the "won't be" comment.

Joshua


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## peterng (Apr 23, 2011)

I can't believe how many people fly off the handle and unload without an ounce of respect.

I've run them both, a lot, and "won't be much faster" is a completely accurate statement. I'm not investing in anything that doesn't provide a significant increase in production and capability. 

If the 252 offered twice the production, or could easily do the stupid big stumps, it would be a contender. But it's not.

I think that, for me, the 60hp diesel remote self propelled is the next step to get stuff I can't do with the Alpine.
Pete


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## jhg (Apr 23, 2011)

peterng said:


> I can't believe how many people fly off the handle and unload without an ounce of respect.
> 
> I've run them both, a lot, and "won't be much faster" is a completely accurate statement. ...


 
Wow Pete. Fly off the handle? My comments were meant only as an observation based on experience. Was not meant to build up 25-35hp machines, or tear down Alpines. I don't give a rip if you can't get much more from a 25hp machine than you can from an Alpine. I know if my 252 is not running sharp teeth and I don't grind smart, productivity falls way off. 
If someones opinion is in your view "without an ounce of respect" based on my above post, I suggest taking your own inventory first.

It takes very little for you to go off.


Joshua


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## gr8scott72 (Apr 23, 2011)

jhg said:


> SNORK!
> 
> If I couldn't grind out a stump at least twice as fast as an Alpine take me out back and shoot me. I think the rest of your advice is sound, but "won't be much faster"? C'mon now, 25-35hp grinders are not otherworldly, but they do grind stumps much faster than an alpine in the hands of a decent operator and if they are set up well. Not knocking Alpines, just not accepting the "won't be" comment.
> 
> Joshua



I've run them both. I've owned an Alpine, a Rayco 1625, and a Carlton 7015 trx. I know from experience. Would I want to ONLY have an Alpine? No way. Does that mean that you can't grind out a stump in about the same time as a 25 hp machine with an Alpine? No. 

Many times, I've done stumps in the backyard where getting the Rayco TO the stump took a VERY long time (that machine, and most small self-propelled grinders, have stupid slow travel speeds.) especially if you had to remove the dual wheels. Stumps like that, the Alpine wins.



I'm only speaking from experience. I have no dog in this race. I'm not even in the business anymore. I could care less what anyone ends up buying. (Unless it's from Harv. lol)


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## peterng (Apr 23, 2011)

jhg said:


> Wow Pete. Fly off the handle? My comments were meant only as an observation based on experience. Was not meant to build up 25-35hp machines, or tear down Alpines. I don't give a rip if you can't get much more from a 25hp machine than you can from an Alpine. I know if my 252 is not running sharp teeth and I don't grind smart, productivity falls way off.
> If someones opinion is in your view "without an ounce of respect" based on my above post, I suggest taking your own inventory first.
> 
> It takes very little for you to go off.
> ...



SNORK !

Just joking, don't mean to be childish but couldn't resist 

Have a good one boys and thanks for the replys, I've got it narrowed down now.
Pete


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## Hoosier (Apr 29, 2011)

I have a magnum and a Rayco Super Jr. If I am grinding a 10" stump the Alpine is faster. It cuts faster, makes smaller chips (Sawdust really) and can reposition in an instant.

When I take both to a job it comes down to how many calories the overall job will take. If it's two or three 12" stumps It's worth the time to get the Jr off the trailer. If its just a single 10" pine I can be back on the truck with the Alpine quicker.

Also, I dont like to get the JR near a house or hazardous area (pool or chain link fence etc..) but I cant live without it. I could get a larger stumper, but in my area grinding a stump over 36" across is rare, most of those trees were taken when they built all the subdivisions.

I vote for a 25HP with power steering unless you are getting calls for big stumps, then go bigger.


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## peterng (May 3, 2011)

interesting, I'll look that one up as well.

Thanks Hoosier,
Pete


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## Curbside (May 4, 2011)

gr8scott72 said:


> I've run them both. I've owned an Alpine, a Rayco 1625, and a Carlton 7015 trx. I know from experience. Would I want to ONLY have an Alpine? No way. Does that mean that you can't grind out a stump in about the same time as a 25 hp machine with an Alpine? No.
> 
> Many times, I've done stumps in the backyard where getting the Rayco TO the stump took a VERY long time (that machine, and most small self-propelled grinders, have stupid slow travel speeds.) especially if you had to remove the dual wheels. Stumps like that, the Alpine wins.
> 
> ...


 
Scott are you no longer grinding anymore. You seemed to have a pretty good operation going. Did you move on the bigger and better or did I misunderstand your quote.


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## gr8scott72 (May 4, 2011)

Curbside said:


> Scott are you no longer grinding anymore. You seemed to have a pretty good operation going. Did you move on the bigger and better or did I misunderstand your quote.


 
I applied with the railroad the exact same month I bought my first stump grinder. That was Sep 2007. I got hired in Sep 2010 with CN. Now I have a job with a steady (and nice) paycheck even in the winter and have insurance, including dental and vision for my whole family for $100 per month.


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## Curbside (May 9, 2011)

That sounds excellent.

Good luck


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## howel07264 (Jun 2, 2011)

gr8scott72 said:


> I applied with the railroad the exact same month I bought my first stump grinder. That was Sep 2007. I got hired in Sep 2010 with CN. Now I have a job with a steady (and nice) paycheck even in the winter and have insurance, including dental and vision for my whole family for $100 per month.


Scott, glad to hear your doing well. I always enjoyed your post and was glad to see you continue after going to work with railroad. Did you sell your blue TRX? I bought one 18 months ago with 65 hours and love it. I still have my old 4400-4 with 2000 hours on it and just put another man on to run it. Do you miss grinding ?


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## gr8scott72 (Jun 3, 2011)

howel07264 said:


> Scott, glad to hear your doing well. I always enjoyed your post and was glad to see you continue after going to work with railroad. Did you sell your blue TRX? I bought one 18 months ago with 65 hours and love it. I still have my old 4400-4 with 2000 hours on it and just put another man on to run it. Do you miss grinding ?


 
I saw a wheeled 7015 going down the hwy today and smiled. I do miss it some but don't miss the headaches associated with it. It seemed like I was always fixing, upgrading, greasing, or something else with the equipment.

I sold my stump grinder to a guy that lived only about 30 minutes from the hotel we were staying at. (I live in Mississippi and was working in Illinois at the time.) Worked out great.

I still have my little skid steer and have been doing some chainsaw milling in my free time. (which isn't much.)

I'm probably going to be moving (Sep?) when I get my full Signalman rights. (Just an assistant right now.) I'm really going to miss the room and being able to mill wood and do other thing like that since I'll probably be in a rental house or an apartment then.

I enjoy my job and it's satisfying because it's what my schooling was for oh so many years ago. Feels good to finally be putting it to use. Plus, I still get to be outside and play with machines.


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## howel07264 (Jun 8, 2011)

gr8scott72 said:


> I saw a wheeled 7015 going down the hwy today and smiled. I do miss it some but don't miss the headaches associated with it. It seemed like I was always fixing, upgrading, greasing, or something else with the equipment.
> 
> I sold my stump grinder to a guy that lived only about 30 minutes from the hotel we were staying at. (I live in Mississippi and was working in Illinois at the time.) Worked out great.
> 
> ...


 
Sounds good. Stay safe my friend.


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## Fairbanks Stump (Feb 17, 2012)

*Two Machine Stump Grinder!*

Pete 
I started my company with a second hand Carlton 4400-4 ( an Awesome Machiene BTW) after 10 years using it part time I purchased an upgrade in addition. I bought a Carlton 7015 W/wireless remote :msp_thumbsup::msp_thumbsup::msp_thumbsup: 

I found I had the opposite problem I had to turn away too many customers due to Odd locations or inaccessibility I solved this problem By purchasing an Alpine Magnum. There was one hell of a learning curve but with help from Kieth and lots of practice I am very efficient with both pieces. The small machine actually taught me a great deal about how to more efficiently operate the big one! 

The Carlton is fairly spendy but with proper Markiting it is well worth the money I self financed with my ROI inside of 3 months 

I have owned 2 carltons and a 1625 super Jr the Rayco is OK but its production is well less than 1/2 of either of my Carltons so I sold it.....it was barely faster than the Alpine Magnum once I learned how to run it! I carry the Magnum in the bed of my Pickup and tow the Carlton So I take 2 machines to every job! 

So in closing I suggest a Remote control Carlton with a Sandvik Wheel ..... Hope this helps!


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 17, 2012)

here is a video of a Carlton 4400-4 56hp duetch dsl. that I ran in Colorodo, the 3 stem coton wood in the picture took about 45min or so, I was impressed I have a 2500-4 with a weak 25 hp kohler, so it was no comparison, I liked the carlton 4012 video with the 44 hp kabota too, chipsaflyin has a 33 hp dsl 4012, would like to see it run too

View attachment 224368


View attachment 224369


Carlton 4400 diesel stump grinder with Greenteeth low pro cutters - YouTube

The jumpyness was cause of one handed so I could hold camera, oh and the big horn sheep in rutt didnt like the grinder lol
Paul


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## peterng (May 29, 2012)

Fairbanks and ropeclimber,

Thanks for the replies, I am back on the mission. 3rd year grinding, more work than I can do with the apline alone. My wrist is surely in the beginning stages of something degenerative. I really need to get into a bigger grinder now. Problem is the cost of daycare and a garage i'm building now. I can't make enough money to cover the bills and leave me enough to splurge but I am killing myself trying to pay for this garage without a bank.

The bigger grinder is on my mind heavy though, joints r sufferin bastards.
I'll keep an eye out for Carlton 4000 series grinders.
Pete


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## Dougaman (Jul 11, 2012)

*Stump grinder to use with Alpine Magnum*

I have a Alpine and a 55 HP diesel. It seems to be a good combination. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller. Also I have a good source for teeth on the Alpine only $3.50 each. If interested, give me a call (678) 873-3624


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## OLD MAN GRINDER (Jul 11, 2012)

I have been grinding since i retired in 05, have owned a kubota tractor with shaver sc25 pto grinder, a sc252 vermeer and now a bandit 2150xp, have done thousands of stumps,,,the bandit has more than doubled my production over the 252 esp on the large stumps, it has hyd steering, direct drive, no clutch to mess with, oversize bearings, built super tough, and by taking off duals have not seen a stump i could not get to, the only thing i might want to change is i like the yellow jacket teeth better than the greenteeth, they seem to hold their edge longer and do not chip as easy, but that could just be because of the more hp on the bandit, it has the 38hp kohler big block, quite an engine....i paid 19300 out the door for it, have 84 hours on it now and it has half paid for itself.....if i needed a smaller machine for tight spots i would probably go with the alpine, but so far no need for it, i work in the country so most of my jobs are on larger lots with easy access, in the city on small lots would be a different story....

With the bandit no stump will intimidate you,,,,,just some thoughts...good luck...

Bob...


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## gr8scott72 (Jul 11, 2012)

If you ever try the sandvik teeth, you'll never want to use the Greenteeth OR the Yellow Jackets again. 



OLD MAN GRINDER said:


> I have been grinding since i retired in 05, have owned a kubota tractor with shaver sc25 pto grinder, a sc252 vermeer and now a bandit 2150xp, have done thousands of stumps,,,the bandit has more than doubled my production over the 252 esp on the large stumps, it has hyd steering, direct drive, no clutch to mess with, oversize bearings, built super tough, and by taking off duals have not seen a stump i could not get to, the only thing i might want to change is i like the yellow jacket teeth better than the greenteeth, they seem to hold their edge longer and do not chip as easy, but that could just be because of the more hp on the bandit, it has the 38hp kohler big block, quite an engine....i paid 19300 out the door for it, have 84 hours on it now and it has half paid for itself.....if i needed a smaller machine for tight spots i would probably go with the alpine, but so far no need for it, i work in the country so most of my jobs are on larger lots with easy access, in the city on small lots would be a different story....
> 
> With the bandit no stump will intimidate you,,,,,just some thoughts...good luck...
> 
> Bob...


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