# Starting My Own Tree Service: Please Help



## SpikedSupra (Jun 13, 2002)

Hello Everyone!
My name is Forrest and I am currently working for a tree service in Daytona Beach, FL. I just started 2 weeks ago but I am only doing this for the summer. When I go back to college in Orlando I am going to be opening my own Tree Service business called Climb and Cut Tree Service. I know some of the things that I will need to get started but I was hoping that someone could give me any information on getting started or the best brand of saws to use or.....well just any info you have to offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.


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## Rob Murphy (Jun 14, 2002)

*Is this for real???*

Climb an cut ...... noway.... why not ...LOP an TOP inc.....
If this not a prank post??? Dont you think you might need a bit more expirence before lauching out on your own???


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## kf_tree (Jun 14, 2002)

ah the typical young employee seeing the price tag on the jobs and thinking the owner is rich. try looking at the big picture. if all your employee's were like you , what crew would you have? they would leave in 2 weeks to start there own company. in a years time you would have spawned 26 competitors. if your in school stay there and study. i sold my company because i wanted a life. i was tired of fixing trucks and chippers at night after a day of climbing and estimating. in my area i now work for 3 different tree svc and make about the same money and have none of the head ache's. i now have fun at work, going to work is like a sport for me now. i look at as training for my new passion, ice climbing.


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## kf_tree (Jun 14, 2002)

i do agree with you. with good people around you one could rule the world. the thing is i could not find good people. only 1 out of 10 is even trainable. plus its hard to take time out to train and still produce. i ran a small company with one crew that averaged just under $ 500,000 gross. i always tried to hire climbers but most of them were too slow or did damage. i guess alot depends the part of the country you work in. in nyc young men do not aspire to do tree work. there is a shortage of climbers. i will not give specifics to my area but a good climber gets 300 to 400 a day. dont ask where, i don't need you guys on my turf. most of my work was tight back yard stuff so a bucket is no help.


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## TREETX (Jun 14, 2002)

If you want to start on your own, I am not going to discourage you. That is part of why good employees are hard to find. The self-starters are out on their own. I think you may not be realistic. First, the name involves climbing - clients don't care about the minutia of this trade. The focus is tree CARE not tree CLIMBING. The other thing you need is a target group. You can't be everyone's tree care provider and you can't be the cheapest(you will die). There are many sectors of tree care - commercial properties, high end properties, and working class homeowners. All are profitable but the margins of profit are very different. You can't do them all and make money - that is what bottom feeders try to do. The only other advice I have is that if you are not hearing "NO", you are way to low and will work yourself into the poor house. Give it some real thought first.


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## treeman82 (Jun 14, 2002)

Spike-it. What area were you working in? I stick to Northern Westchester, Putnam, Duchess, and CT. Do you know a guy down there by the name of Walter. Company's name is "Walter and Sons Tree Service" He is also known to some as "Crazy Tree Man Walter" I wish you had been on here a few weeks ago. Somebody called me from Cypress Hills down in Brooklynn wanting a big black oak taken down.


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## kf_tree (Jun 14, 2002)

sorry but i do not know walter or his company. where in brooklyn was the tree? bid high on the oak and take big wacks. good luck


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 14, 2002)

*spikedsupra*

If your first question is "What brand of saws do I use?", then you are about as close to starting your own tree business as the 60 yr old woman that lives next door to me. I am too stunned by your ignorance to comment further. Besides, there are 1000 other so-called tree guys in Orlando that have no clue about what saw to use, never mind how to actually trim trees!


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## Treeman14 (Jun 14, 2002)

*I can't see the Forrest for the trees...*

Ok Forrest, this is your lucky day. I've got everything you need to walk right into a profitable business... Bucket trucks, chipper trucks, chippers, stump grinders, saws, and lots and lots of customers. 17 years in Tampa, FL. Its all yours for only $1,000,000. I'll let Forrest have first crack at this, but if anyone else is interested, let me know. Forrest, what a great name for a tree guy!


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## murphy4trees (Jun 15, 2002)

Hey Brett,
1 Mil. is a highly round #. How'd you come up with it. How much are you makin' down there anyway?
A couple of my peers up herre outside Phila. just sold out a year or two ago. One guy sold to Save-A-Tree, another to Alpine, the care of trees. I never found out how much cash was involed.
In case Forrest doesn't come up with the cash, you might want to at least let him know what kind of saws you use. 
I've been happy using Stihl for 20 years. I have a pair of o44s that are 3 or 4 years old. I replace one pull cord and several air filters each.. that's it. Lots of power, reliable. And I just bought a pair of Husky 350s yesterday, at Lowes for 300 ea., no interest for 6 months. I've been curious about husky for a while. The 350 sems to fill the gap between a climbing saw and the 044 ground saw. Sure hope they hold up.
Good luck Forrest. Email me if you'd like to talk.
God Bless All,
Daniel


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## geofore (Jun 15, 2002)

*new co*

So Forrest you know a few things about this? I would say for saws, I have a different one for different jobs. 5 different brands and each does a different job. If you are just starting out what about the brands the guys you work with own? Don't they like their saws? A throw away and a least two good pro saws.

Some saws take a number of different bars so you have a power head and a choice of bar lenghs and chains. The chains do different jobs also. I'm scared by what you didn't ask.

I take it you can do bookwork or your girlfriend is a CPA. You have an insurance man or your dad sells ins. You have a buisness license and tax number. You own a truck or two and have a place to dump the cuttings. You have a trustworthy crew and you have more than two weeks experience on the job. You also need people skills or a sales man with people skills and a buisness bank account too. 

To get off the ground and into the tree you have to have a grand or two of equipment. shoes,belts, ropes, climbers, lanyards hardhat or helmet, saws, selection safety equipment and don't forget the firstaid kit. Get a good hand saw to cut your chainsaw loose when you stick it and you will with two weeks experience. I know that isn't everything and I don't want to scare you off. Then equipment for your crew,gloves, goggles,hardhats and copies of the handbooks to pass out in case you haven't trained the crew well enough, they can read up on it in their spare time. Ear plugs help. Cell phones so you can call your groundman from the top of the tree without yelling (optional). I would tell you to get more than two weeks experience. It may look easy but it isn't. More than 90% of new buisnesses fail the first year. Good luck and work safe.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 15, 2002)

My my my. The sarcasm is really flowing now!

Seriously Forrest. Get more experiance under your nelt before you take the plunge. If you understand Natural Target Pruning you've a good start, but there is much more to it then that.

Go to Bretts company and fill out an application when you go back to school. You'll do better in school that way and learn in class and OJT.


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## Newfie (Jun 15, 2002)

Geofore brings up an excellent point about new businesses failing in the first year. The most common cause is being under-capitalized. No one seems to consider how they are going to pay bills and employees before the cash starts flowing. Contact your local SBA office for some guidance in small business start up loans and info on forming a business PLAN. Businesses that are lucky enough to still be in business fail because there is no plan. Most people are wary of buying but the vast majority of successful business people have borrowed in some form or another to help grow their business. You can't make money without money.

I would have to agree with the pros, make sure you have plenty of experience and training before jumping into the abyss. You may love tree work but owning your own business will take you away from the cutting and you will spend more time doing things you might not like.

Don't give up on your dream, just try to slow down and take it one step at a time. Learn to crawl before you try to do the high hurdles.

Forrest, remember that Momma said life is like a box of chocloates, just don't try to eat the whole box at one sitting.


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## Dave (Jun 15, 2002)

Girls are like a box of chocolates, the ones with cherries are better.


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## Jumper (Jun 16, 2002)

*My 2 Canuck cents worth(actually about 1.30 cents US)*

Forrest, all good advice here. I have just finished working for a company that is now closed, primarily due to a lack of climbers, a co owner that decided he was no longer interested in the business(climbing or maintenance), a lack of dedicated staff and thus a lack of cash flow. I have now been at this for 7 months, and have just begun to grasp some of the rudiments of tree care. Yes it might appear that there is a lot of money involved, but the overhead is very high. You need to sit down with someone and formulate a business plan(here we have govt agencies that will assist prospective small business owners with this). My advice echoed by others above is finish your schooling(perhaps change programs to something more related to you intended line of work if necessary), and keep working with a number of tree services and arborists in your area (maybe part time once the school year get underway again), gain some experience, including no doubt observations on how you would never run a small business (into the ground maybe), and when you have a plan, the $$$$$ and all the pieces in place strike out on your own. Good luck!


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## SpikedSupra (Jun 16, 2002)

*Read, Process, and then Respond*

I didnt realize that I was going to get an entourage of negative opinions on my fledgling business plan. I guess I should have explained a couple things before anyone had the chance to jump to any hasty conclusions.

1. Like "Down To Earth" said its not about climbing and cutting trees necessarily. Thats just the job description. Business mentality is the key. I have exceptional business skills and I am majoring in Business Marketing in college. I have the mind set intelligence to make this go.

2. I have NO bills whatsoever to pay except my cell phone. My scholarship money pays for my schooling and all of my living expenses. Overhead will be extremely low considering the only things I will have to keep after will be monthly insurance, license, saw and utility maintanence, and other miscellaneous business expenses.

3. I have $8,000 dollars in capital for my business venture. This should easily cover the expenses of getting started for me because I am not going to get crazy with bucket lifts and tree grinders yet. I havent found a dumping site in Orlando yet but there are many many places that are happy to take my waste for their business.

4. This is not going to be a full fledged operation. I am not looking to make this a career nor do I plan on letting this effect my educational practices. This business venture is partially for money making and mostly for business startup practice. I will be starting a real business one day after college and if I JUST broke even with this business I will have won anyway because it will be an education in real life business experience for free.

Now feel free to give me your opinions based on having a bit more knowledge on the situation I have.

To all that gave me helpful advice in lieu of responses of negatory doubt and hopelessness in my new venture I thank you dearly. To those who have their doubts I am not in the least bit upset about your responses. Without them I may have taken the difficulties of the business a little more for granted. If you still have doubts you have the right to reserve your opinions. I feel 100% in my heart that I will make this a working and fully functional business. It will bring me profitibilaty in revenues but most importantly I will profit from the business experience and knowledge that comes with it.

Just one more thing....I will leave you with one quote from My Philosophical Ideologies: A collection of quotes through the life experiences of Forrest Doran(Its a book I'm writing)

39. _"Being told that something cannot be done is only a catalyst for an induvidual's inspiration"_


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## Newfie (Jun 16, 2002)

Forrest,Forrest, he's our man, if he can't climb it no one can!  

Theres a rah rah go get em cheer for ya. With a couple of exceptions I think everyone has tried to offer you realistic advice about the things you should consider and what to be wary of in your endeavor. Based on your initial post I think everyone had the same feeling about your qualifications to tackle such an undertaking. Please don't chastise us for the vague parameters with which we were provided to "jump" from. 

Your recent post lists a lot more qualifications, but still doesn't explain where you are going to aquire the practical tree experience to do quality work in a safe manner.(other than this summer gig) Do you have climbing training, etc? Safety is also something you should consider. As many here will tell you, this is a occupation/avocation frought with danger. What you don't know can hurt you, what you don't know you don't know can probably kill you.
Not knowing your product or service fully doesn't sound like a good business plan to me. You can be an awesome businessman but if you are not well versed in being a good tree man it doesn't matter much. I'm not trying to be negative just realistic and helpful. After all is said and done, you did ask the forum for our help. Good luck to you and stay safe.


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## kf_tree (Jun 16, 2002)

with only 8000.00 start up money you won't get far no matter how good a business man you are. where are you going to advertise? between the 3 phone books i was in i was paying 2300.00 a month just to advertise. i guess you don't plan on going legit? getting a lawyer to set up an s corp will cost you about 1500.00. you could do it your self but let a pro handle it(kind of like tree work). now that you have a corp besides the liability ins what about workmens comp ins? are you going to be one of those hacks running around in a pick up with 2 craftsman saws under bidding every one? i under stand we all need to start some where. i feel one should not learn to climb until he has run a saw on the ground for at least a year, and running ropes for a good climber. you don't learn much dragging brush except to get out of they when you hear a saw start from above. good competition is good for every one. but hacks just make us all look bad. theres a guy by me who under bids jobs, puts the tree on the ground. he then asks the customer for money saying his trucks are on the way and skates never cleaning up the job. getting rid of tree debris might not be as easy as you think. in my area i have to pay to get rid of chips 180.00 to dump a 25 yard truck. that adds up at the end of the month. i chipped every thing because dumping wood is twice the cost of chips. some days i would fill the truck 3 times.


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## treeman82 (Jun 16, 2002)

Hey Dave, you mind if I borrow that quote?  

Forrest... myself and another few people in here are currently college students majoring in urban forrestry / arboriculture / etc. You HAVE to have at least some field or book experience to make it in this business. How are you going to know how or what to sell? At what price? If you only pick up a $200 pruning job... how would it be worth it to get a climber or somebody who even half knows what they are doing? I also am heavily offended by what you say about it doesnt matter if you fail or make any money or anything. Myself and many other people on this board take great pride in what we do, we don't just see it as a business, but also as personal passions. A lot of guys on here will drive around with their eyes not on the road... but instead up in the trees looking for how we can help them. Please keep this in mind.

I almost forgot insurance... I know that I pay about $2700 a year for my liability insurance alone! Keep in mind that insurance for commercial tree work is very expensive and hard to come by.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 16, 2002)

aheck, I'm a subcontracting sole proprietor/sole employee with 3k in tools. With no restrictions on my climbing I pay almost 900/year in GL ins.


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 16, 2002)

Forrest Duran-
I'll be looking out for your exceptional business to take over the market that I have worked for 20 years. When you find that chipper truck, chipper, wood truck, insurance and business location for $8K, let me know and I'll come over and give you a few leads. I just want to find your secret dumping spot!!


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## SpikedSupra (Jun 16, 2002)

Alright. Many of the things that are being said about this post are getting a bit out of hand. I am not trying to attack anyone here. Nor should I feel like I am being attacked by 20 angry tree men. This is not a completely legit op. I just want to make a few extra bucks while in college. I am not trying to make a fortune from this business. I dont need all of the machinery that is being questioned here. It seems that everyone believes that I think I am going to go corporate overnight with this project. Think of me as the guy you see out mowing lawns on the weekends for extra cash. I dont plan on doing jobs that require the ridiculous amounts of heavy machinery required. I'm only going to do the small jobs that I am highly capable of. I have climbing experience and I find it to be very easy. I'm a strong athletic guy and I have an excellent mentor who truly believes I will do well with this because he knows me much better than anyone here does. If you dont have any worthy advice to offer me in this thread then dont bother responding. I am not trying to be a prick but I dont want a bunch of sarcastic remarks because they are nnot helping me. I am not trying to take any share of the tree service market and if I were to it would be extremely minimal. Thank you again for those who have offered nothing but your help and guidance in assitsting me in this. Thank You.


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SpikedSupra _
> *.........This is not a completely legit op. ......... Think of me as the guy you see out mowing lawns on the weekends for extra cash. ............ I'm only going to do the small jobs that I am highly capable of. .............. If you dont have any worthy advice to offer me in this thread then dont bother responding. ............ *



Well, if you already have all the answers, why'd ya ask?  
I'll look for ya when I'm driving past the hospitals....

Thanks for the laughs!


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## Newfie (Jun 16, 2002)

Forrest,

You seem to take legitimate criticism of your proposal as being unhelpful.Your analogy about the guy mowing lawns just doesn't cut it. What's the worst you could do with a lawnmower versus a chainsaw and a tree? You don't need to chip your brush and haul it away? Even as rentals you are looking at some important money. Do you know how much professional saws cost? You will need more than one for sure, to do different kinds of jobs.

I worked for a general contractor as a laborer/framer for two summers while in college. Would you find it reasonable that I now go out and do small additions and carpentry jobs and pass myself off as a professional. I certainly wouldn't.

Your quote: "Being told that something cannot be done is only a catalyst for an individual's inspiration"

Those are nice words but they still don't mean you have a viable proposal. Let's say I've been taking flying lessons for two weeks and will stop at the end of the summer when I go back to college. When I get back to where I go to school I want to start a small charter airline. I think I can fly if I flap my arms hard enough, what do you think?

You asked professionals for help. They have told you to get insured, get real capital, tools and equipment, but most of all they told you to get experience and get realistic about your plan. Even the SBA would laugh you out of their office with what you think you can do. Maybe your mentor will tell you what you want to hear.


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## Treeman14 (Jun 16, 2002)

Forrest, go easy on us. Sometimes we forget where we came from. I started my business with a six year old pick-up, 2 chainsaws(A Homelite Super 2 and a 330), a "borrowed saddle", a couple of ropes, handsaw, pole saw, old spurs from my dad, a rake, and a 24' fiberglass extension ladder.
First, get your occupational license, its only about $20.
Next, get insurance; liability for the damage you WILL do, and health insurance for injuries.
Then, print up a bunch of business cards and give some to everyone you meet.
You've also got to come up with a better business name. I should think a Marketing Major can do better than Cut and Climb.
Then, register your ficticious trade name.
Don't even try to make a profit for the first few years. Put all of your money into growing the business. New equipment, more advertising, better insurance coverage. 
Join trade organizations like ISA or NAA and subscribe to trade journals like Arbor Age and Tree Care Industry. Go to workshops and trade shows.

All of a sudden I feel like I'm wasting my time here. If you're not passionate about trees, then yes, it will be just a business venture and it really doesn't matter if you succeed or not. Most of us here would agree that we are in the tree business because we LOVE trees. If you don't feel that way, you might as well try Amway.

Well, what I started out saying was you don't need a huge investment to get started. I think very few of us started with bucket trucks, chippers, and a huge yellow page ad.

Good luck, Forrest. You'll need it.


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## Newfie (Jun 16, 2002)

Brett,

Good advice for Forrest, but I recall from one of his earlier posts that " I am not looking to make this a career ", so it probably doesn't really apply to his situation. He seems to be more interested in exercising his business prowess.


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## Treeman14 (Jun 16, 2002)

I have a feeling this is quickly deteriorating into another Beebo thing.


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## Kevin (Jun 16, 2002)

A man has got to know his limitations


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## Nickrosis (Jun 16, 2002)

You can start a tree business with $8k. It can be done, good luck, if you have questions, e-mail me. Our company started with a car and a man who had a summer of tree experience from another state. Why should you be any different? I don't know... Maybe it's just the mood of some people here.

I have reservations about the whole thing, but I try to be optimistic. Tree people are in the business for different reasons - the people here have a passion, and they care tremendously about the industry and their own educations - that's why they're here!

People on the street that don't go to trade shows, don't really care about trees, and consider it a job just like a mason or electrician. Take your approach, but please, put some passion into the trees and not just the business! I'm torn myself - after this B.S. in Urban Foresty, I'm wondering if and MBA would be better than an MLA (Landscape Architecture). Maybe a Ph.D in Plant Phys or Path would be better...

Anyways, most tree businesses fail because of the lack of business expertise, not tree expertise. I'm encouraged by your interest in the field and would like to hear from you in a couple months.

Nickrosis


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## geofore (Jun 17, 2002)

*new buisness*

You will be futher ahead than most people if you try. It is not so bad to have a buisness fail, It is when you give up that it is bad. Ask around and you would be suprised at the number of people that have buisnesses now that had two or three flops before they found their niche and made it work. My first try did not fly but you don't let that stop you. The experience is worth it.


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## murphy4trees (Jun 17, 2002)

Forrest,
You can do this startup on a shoestring... lots of us have. And I would have done it differently had I known then what I know now.
So here are some tidbits of advice.
1. Get good reliable saws and keep 'em sharp.
2. Bill 'em. Keep your prices high... real high.
3. Keep your word, do what you say you're going to do when you said you'd do it... show up for appointments on time, call if you are running late etc..
4. Develop relationships, climbers, other tree services, stump grinding services etc.. Knowing the right people for the right job is half the battle.
5. learn everythting you can from people, books, the web.. look through old threads on this site.. some really good info is available.
6. Fake it 'til you make it (with customers/ not trees)
7. Be careful
God Bless,
Daniel


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## SpikedSupra (Jun 18, 2002)

*Thank You's*

This same message can be found in the thread entitled "From:Forrest To:All"

I want to send a couple of extended thank you's to those who offered nothing but your moral support and tree service expertise. Among those I would like to specifically thank Treeman14, Nickrosis, Geofore, Murphy4Trees, Jumper, and TreeTX for your wonderful advice on the strongest and most reliable brands of saws, answers to my insurance and pricing queries, and their overall optimistic outlook and encouragement in my decision to take on this business venture. you have been more than helpful. I will keep you posted on my progress and may have more questions for you in the near future. 

For those who offered nothing but negatory and sarcastic remarks I am sorry that you felt you had to respond in such a condescending manner. I refuse to return such remarks because its not in my moral. Receiving such remarks gives one a real idealistic knowledge of the individual's character. I have nothing to prove to anyone but myself but it may feel good to come back to this board in a few months with good news on my businesses success. Although some of you have felt that you should discourage my efforts I truly hope from one business man to another that you wish me good fortune in my endeavor. I wish nothing but the best for all individuals on this prestigious board. 

I leave you with now with two more quotes from my unfinished book: 

5. "One who can sell a material object or service is a good salesman but one who can sell themselves can sell anything." 

10. "Nobody speaks apprehensively to a person of lower intelligence so keeping one's cunning and wit concealed can be a good way to know another's true intentions."


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 18, 2002)

It is just that we all have seen so many people with limited knowledge of the practical side of the buisness think anyone can make a go at it. 

It takes a while to get good climbing skills and a knowledge of not just a proper pruning cut, but how to work different species.

A number of your comments pont to your lack of practical knowledge and skill. We are not just concerned for your phisical and finacial safety, but your futur clients and the trees you will try to work in.

If it were about making money, most of us would be doing something else.

Maybe I don't have much buisness acumen, but I can sell my skills. I barely spell my own name correctly, but I'm a competamt climber and am well grounded in plant science. 

I would prefer you learn more about the trees before you mess with them.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 18, 2002)

Gump,
One reason you might be getting some feelings of animosity from the guys, particularly those from Fl, is that one major source of business competition is fly-by-nites.
These guys giving you $hit, have put in the time. They became certified arborists. Hired good help, supplied them with workman's comp insurance, and pay them a salarey that they can live on. They offer a comprehensive and fully insured service. 
Then along comes a snot nosed, punk, teenager, with an $89 homelite saw and his mommy's trailer and out bids him by $800 on a $900 job. 
Not that you, or other fly-by-nite operations will put a legitamate bussiness out of business, you will just take a bite out of the profits, and keep the wage paid to his employee's just a bit lower. The homeowner does not know the two bids on the job discribed above are for two completely different services, yet they are sold as the same. 
That being said, I'm sure lot's of tree guys have done "side jobs" or have started their business without workman's comp insurance only to get some later on, after they have assets to lose.
I would encourage you to keep working at your arborist job, buy some equipment, sell some "side jobs", and use your current employer's insurance and equipment. Perhaps, you could get a commission on the jobs you bring, rather than risking uninsured work. Once you can incorporate and afford worker's comp, then go on your own.


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## Kevin (Jun 18, 2002)

Safety and certification are a priority.
If you don`t know what saw to buy chances are you don`t have much experience or training in using one on the ground let alone in a tree.
Have at it, just don`t hurt anyone else in the process.


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## Nickrosis (Jun 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Down To Earth _
> *What about Me? *



Your ten cents was the suspiciously low bid.

Nickrosis


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## SpikedSupra (Jun 19, 2002)

*I am learning hear and thats good*

The more you guys say, the more I am learning. I am sorry to exclude you, Down to Earth, from my thank you list. I would like to thank all of you for your genorosity in helping me in this new venture. I am glad to find this site and I believe that deep down everyone here has good intentions regardless of the harshness or encouragment that you have left in respose to my original post. No matter what is said or done on this site I am still aiming to launch this small business sometime in the month of August. As far as concerns for the trees that I will be working with.....I have an excellent mentor and he teaches more abou the proper pruning of trees every day. I am a very fast learner and I have the techniques. Thanks again and wish me luck!


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## rborist1 (Jun 19, 2002)

:Eye: 


:Eye:


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## DDM (Jun 19, 2002)

Hmmmmmm.. O Golf Clap to Mike.
Forest? You made an interesting remark about Mowing lawns. For 8000.00 You might half decently outfit a lawn service.
and why not? thats how i started Mowing lawns just now i spend 1 day a week mowing and 4-5 Working on trees. When you go to talk to a insurance agent about liabilty insurance Im in Doubt without atleast 5 Yrs Exp you will get anymore than insurance on your vehicle. O One more thing. On the average we spend 1 hr cutting for 2 hrs Chipping moving wood ect So Without a chipper i'll say you will probably spend 1 hr cutting and 7 Hrs hauling? just a thought.


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## TREETX (Jun 20, 2002)

I started w/out a chipper. Going that way, you will just work to pay bills, to work to pay more bills, but you will never make money. You may live but you will not get a head. I never made any money until I ponied up for the chipper. How did I ever get by without one? If your are trying to do anything of size w/out a chipper, you are better off driving over to your customer's house, giving them $50 and then slamming your nuts in the truck door. It will produce the same effect in the end.

Get a loan and get the right equip or you will work yourself to death. Smarter, not harder.


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## kf_tree (Jun 20, 2002)

treetx
the thing i don't understand about tree work is why do companies pass their edge along to the customer with a lower price because they can do the job quicker with better equipment.
i work in new york and evey once in a while i use a tree service from new jersey to come over with his crane for big removal work. i had a tree at 4700.00 he came over and the job was down and cleaned up by 2:00. i paid him 1500.00 for the crane rental and bucket. he said in new jersey he would be lucky to get 2700.00 for the same tree. because by him there are alot of big tree's and most tree sevice's have cranes. but instead of useing it to their advantage the pass it along to the customer. the most i ever got for a single removal was 6200.00. i had him bring his whole crew as well as my own and i just split the day with him. he said in new jersey it would be a 3800.00 tree. i'm only over a bridge and 20 miles away from their area.


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## Nickrosis (Jun 20, 2002)

Two words: Competitive Pricing.

You saw what happened in the cell phone industry as technology improved - more people rushed in with the technology, and prices dropped. Analogous to trees.

Nickrosis

This site is giving me problems tonight.


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## TREETX (Jun 22, 2002)

I do not try to pass on any competitive edge to the customer. If anything, charge more. That edge will get you out of there faster (saves you man hours) but it also gives you more time to mop up and pay attention to details.

It all depends on what kind of target group you have. Removals are seldom where I make my money because I do not pass this competitive edge on and in removals, price rules period!! Not education, experience, or client relationship. My focus group are those individuals desiring quality tree care over a period of time. Those that view trees as potential property assets via management or property liabilities via mismanagement. Maybe this group simply because I can make money on my salesmanship and mini-lectures.

At times I envy people who make money on big removals. It all boils down to buying and selling man hours. I try to sell high. 

Off to vacation


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 22, 2002)

There are 2 ways to making a company work in this industry.

1. Chace every lead you have and price competatively. If you work removals, this is the way yo will go in a tight market.

2. Build a client base on good work and customer service. It is harder to start, but pays in the long run. Talk to the people, let them know you care about their property. If you walk the property and they don't need work, tell them. Just stayn in touch.


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## DDM (Oct 22, 2004)




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## MasterBlaster (Oct 22, 2004)

http://www.***************/krazydawg.JPG


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## DDM (Oct 22, 2004)

LMAO! Go Forrest Err Boy Go.


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## Abbershay (Oct 23, 2004)

Forest you will do great in florida, i think anyone with a little common sence and decent work ethic can do really well in the tree biz, to work in an area such as fl with all the wind they get you would have to blow it big time not to make more than you can working for someone else.

I think its kinda funny the million price on the ts , wonder if you would have a million of anything to sell working for someone else in the labor field.

sthil; chainsaws have been good to me and pouland have been great for taking the beating and keep running they are cheap and disposible.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 23, 2004)

FYI....Forrest isn't around anymore, and this thread is just being resurrected for laughs.


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## Newfie (Oct 23, 2004)

I wonder if Gump ever finished writing his book that he liked to quote from.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rborist1 _
> *Back to the good old days.............classic Arboristsite!  *



i think these resurrected threads are of some of the worst, not best as classics should be; and kinda showing some of the same stuff we complain about someone else in another thread.

:alien:


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## Crofter (Oct 23, 2004)

Some of these threads bring out the worst in people. A little bit of righteous indignation can turn some into a real monster and they seem to think their abusive behaviour is justified. I am sure some of these characters like "beginner" were just trolling and should have been snuffed early. Trolls being pulled apart by the wolves is not a pretty picture for someone just visiting the site.
I don't appreciate nastiness especially when you know it is being affected for an audience. That is calculated nastiness not a quick temper. I try to camouflage mine in sarcasm to sweeten the pills!

Frank


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## Newfie (Oct 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Crofter _
> *Some of these threads bring out the worst in people. A little bit of righteous indignation can turn some into a real monster and they seem to think their abusive behaviour is justified. I am sure some of these characters like "beginner" were just trolling and should have been snuffed early. Trolls being pulled apart by the wolves is not a pretty picture for someone just visiting the site.
> I don't appreciate nastiness especially when you know it is being affected for an audience. That is calculated nastiness not a quick temper. I try to camouflage mine in sarcasm to sweeten the pills!
> 
> Frank *



Frank, I think you are plagaraizing someone on the site. Oh yeah, yourself.


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## Crofter (Oct 24, 2004)

Little mix up. Seems it wasnt where I thought I'd posted so I gave it another jab. Kinda fits either thread though!


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## hornett22 (May 10, 2006)

*good luck Forrest!*

we started with two guys,two saws,and a toyota truck.still going strong.your time is worth money and so is your equipment.don't underbid yourself.my partner lets me do the bidding because he hasn't grasped it all yet.he still says,"that sounds kinda high!" and again i remind him time is money.doen't matter if your in the tree cutting or driving to the landfill.every minute your not at home relaxing or at the gun range,you should be getting paid!


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## DDM (May 10, 2006)

Forrest has been out of the tree business for a few yrs now.This thread is kinda old.


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## Treeman14 (May 11, 2006)

It's like deja vu all over again.




-apologies to Mr. Berra


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## maxburton (May 12, 2006)

I started my business with about $300. I also did it without having insurance (illegal), putting ads in people's mail boxes (illegal), and without enough experience to work safely (stupid). Somehow I made it. Don't do what I did! 

You're a business major, so you probably know all about business plans. If you can't make it work on paper, don't do it.


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## Mike Barcaskey (May 12, 2006)

lmao,
classic Arboristsite self-righteousness and stupidity


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