# Procut sawmill



## carvinmark

I have a portable mill that I picked up a few years ago. As far as I can tell it is ALL homemade from plans that www.procutportablesawmills.com sells. I cut mostly pine and white cedar for my log home business. I have had several saws on this mill and I just love it. I have had problems with saw bars.My question is,I am putting an oiler near the tip and wonder about using a mix of soap and water for cooling and lube, still using the bar oil in the saw.I have used a dishsoap bottle and shot it at the bar,it sure cleans the crap out of the bar and chain.If I knew how to post pics,I would.
I cut mostly pine from 12" to 30" and max length is 16'6". Anybody ever tried water,like a band mill?Will this hurt my bar or chain?


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## coveredinsap

Thanks for the link. Yes, that looks like a good setup. It's too bad that he doesn't currently seem to be selling complete units, only the plans. I particularly liked this page explaining the problems with bandsaw mills:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/bandmills.htm

There is a tradeoff with everything, whether it be a chainsaw, bandsaw, or circular saw style mill. What works or is best for one person may not be best for another ....I personally think that the chainsaw style mills are a good solution.

As for the bar lubrication....I believe the circular mill sold by Bailey's uses water as a blade lubricant...as do a few others I think. I'm not sure how well it would work with a chainsaw, however....particularly the soap and water mixture, as it seems that that would tend to remove the protective coating of oil from the bar/chain rather than assist in cutting....making a big mess in the process. I was thinking more along the lines of a biodegradable oil in place of chain oil, some type of less toxic mix. Maybe mineral oil would be a good substitute.

Anyways, I'd like to see photos and hear more about your setup, if possible. What type of chainsaw, how it came into your possesion, etc.

Thanks again for the link.


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## coveredinsap

Also, look at the cost of milling with a chainsaw:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/production.htm

"DIRECT COSTS OF MILLING LUMBER ON PROCUT OVER 7 YEARS INCLUSIVE OF NEW SAWS, BARS, CHAIN, GAS AND OIL....1¼ CENTS PER BOARD FOOT OR $12.40 PER THOUSAND"

That seems pretty darn cost effective to me. I see costs bandied about of around $1 or so per bd ft for other kinds of portable mills as a comparison.


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## rb_in_va

coveredinsap said:


> Thanks for the link. Yes, that looks like a good setup. It's too bad that he doesn't currently seem to be selling complete units, only the plans. I particularly liked this page explaining the problems with bandsaw mills:
> 
> http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/bandmills.htm



Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not! Anyone know what it would cost to build this mill?



coveredinsap said:


> I personally think that the chainsaw style mills are a good solution.



Yes, that's pretty clear! I hereby nominate coveredinsap the official Arboristsite chainsaw mill advocate.


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## WRW

carvinmark said:


> I have a portable mill that I picked up a few years ago. As far as I can tell it is ALL homemade from plans that www.procutportablesawmills.com sells. I cut mostly pine and white cedar for my log home business. I have had several saws on this mill and I just love it. I have had problems with saw bars.My question is,I am putting an oiler near the tip and wonder about using a mix of soap and water for cooling and lube, still using the bar oil in the saw.I have used a dishsoap bottle and shot it at the bar,it sure cleans the crap out of the bar and chain.If I knew how to post pics,I would.
> I cut mostly pine from 12" to 30" and max length is 16'6". Anybody ever tried water,like a band mill?Will this hurt my bar or chain?




To answer your question...yes.

Soap is a good way to remove the lubricant that the chain needs, causing early failure. Maybe a better solution (no pun intended) would be to add some diesel fuel to the aux. oilers oil.


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## Sawyer Rob

> Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not!



It's easy to make all kinds of claims when your trying to "sell" something....

I use to be a chainsaw miller, and i've used a circle mill. I also have owned a band mill since 1996. I think i'll go by MY experences and by pass all the BS that someone who is SELLING something has to spread...

This chainsaw mill (csm) vs. band mill has been going on for a long time. Lots of guys go from a csm to a band mill, but none go from a band mill to a csm... That should be your first clue...






Rob


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## WRW

rb_in_va said:


> Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not!
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> If you notice, on his production page, he is only cutting cants...not logs...so he is not running into any grit or rocks, but his description of the bandmill's faults has them cutting logs, not cants.
> 
> Some people will swallow anything!


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## rb_in_va

Sawyer Rob said:


> This chainsaw mill (csm) vs. band mill has been going on for a long time. Lots of guys go from a csm to a band mill, but none go from a band mill to a csm... That should be your first clue...



It is a universally accepted fact that the band mill is better than the chainsaw mill. Sap will figure that out if and when he runs a band mill.


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## WRW

BTW, carvinmark, that is a neat set-up. I don't believe I've ever seen anything quite like it.


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## aggiewoodbutchr

Funny, I was dreaming something like this up not long ago. I hadn't seen these pictures before but they look alot like what I had visioned in my mind. Wierd-


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## BlueRidgeMark

coveredinsap said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of a biodegradable oil in place of chain oil, some type of less toxic mix. Maybe mineral oil would be a good substitute.




Do a search here on "veggie oil" or "canola" and you'll find quite a lot of discussion. There are quite a few folks here that have gone to veggie oil only, been doing it for years, and won't go back.

I plan on switching myself.


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## Newfie

coveredinsap said:


> Also, look at the cost of milling with a chainsaw:
> 
> http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/production.htm
> 
> "DIRECT COSTS OF MILLING LUMBER ON PROCUT OVER 7 YEARS INCLUSIVE OF NEW SAWS, BARS, CHAIN, GAS AND OIL....1¼ CENTS PER BOARD FOOT OR $12.40 PER THOUSAND"
> 
> That seems pretty darn cost effective to me. I see costs bandied about of around $1 or so per bd ft for other kinds of portable mills as a comparison.



Which seems like a slam dunk decision when looking at those numbers but it ignores the big question, "what is you time worth?" My time is valuable and a bandmill's production is vastly superior to any csm set-up out there.

That $1 per BF seems pretty arbitrary and overinflated. A bandmill cuts more BF per sharpening, the sharpenings cost roughly the same, new blades are cheaper than a loop of ripping chain and last as long. Fuel consumption per Bf is far superior on a Bandmill.

If you are milling as hobby or in small quantities, csm's are great and one of the reasons I used one. When the milling became a business offshoot the bandmill was the only practical and money making solution.


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## Newfie

And my bandmill uses water for lubrication as opposed to bar oil at $7 a gallon. Makes that $12.40 MBF look even less believable unless he's milling timbers as opposed to 4/4.


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## coveredinsap

> Do a search here on "veggie oil" or "canola" and you'll find quite a lot of discussion. There are quite a few folks here that have gone to veggie oil only, been doing it for years, and won't go back.



Thanks, I'll do that. The only problem as I see it would be the tendency for the oil to go rancid over time....but maybe that has been addressed or is not an issue with something like olive oil. In either case, I'll take a look....thanks again. (Hey, speaking of canola...now that they've genetically engineered it to be 'Roundup ready', maybe they can genetically engineer it to stick to a chainsaw bar better  )



> It's easy to make all kinds of claims when your trying to "sell" something....


In other words, what you're saying is that the advertizing claims regarding Lumbermate 2000 are completely believeable, but they're not for this unit? That's somewhat laughable. If anything, this guy has backed up his claims with actual figures, which is a lot more than I can say for most manufacturer's products. 

I have yet to see anyone dispute his cost per board ft price, or the expense and problems with keeping a bandsaw sharp and cutting. As for the clogging aspect of a bandsaw....that is totally believable by me, having just been literally 'covered in sap' milling this cedar tree. It wasn't even an issue with the chainsaw, other than the sap getting all over everything... and it never affected the chainsaw's cutting ability. Neither was it ever an issue cutting thru the sappy cedar bark.
I can hardly believethat it wouldn't, however, be an issue with a bandsaw. Particularly in an instance like this where the sap ran like honey.



> This chainsaw mill (csm) vs. band mill has been going on for a long time. Lots of guys go from a csm to a band mill, but none go from a band mill to a csm... That should be your first clue...


That isn't the case according to the Procut site. He claims that bandsaw owners are frequently disappointed in their expensive purchase, and sell them to go back to chainsaw mills such as his. In fact, he claims that all but the most expensive bandsaw mills with the largest engines and thickest bandsaw blades cut wavy lumber that has to be run thru a planer before it's useful. That's a far cry from what you're claiming about them, although in your defense you did state that the bandsaw blade 'wanders' sometimes when it hits a knot, something that the Procut site also states...correctly it would appear.

No, I'm thinking that one of these Procut-style guide racks, set up with both a chainsaw mill powerhead and a chainsaw-powered bandsaw mill ...easily switchable depending on need, would be the ideal rig. ...And at pennies to the dollar compared to the other available options, including the Lumbermate 2000.


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## aggiewoodbutchr

coveredinsap said:


> The only problem as I see it would be the tendency for the oil to go rancid over time....



This thread jogged my memory about the use of vegetable oil. I've used it as lube on other similar applications but I hadn't thought of using it here. There shouldn't be enough oil getting into the wood to turn rancid. It would be a good idea to flush out the oiler of you plan to store your mill for more than a few months. Just keep the mill busy and you won't have a problem. 

If you are still worried about it you can use mineral oil but it costs much more.


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## coveredinsap

> And my bandmill uses water for lubrication as opposed to bar oil at $7 a gallon. Makes that $12.40 MBF look even less believable unless he's milling timbers as opposed to 4/4.



I used less than a half gallon of bar oil to mill approx 500 bd ft of cedar into 2" slabs. It was $4.97 for a gallon of premium bar oil. So...that's what?....$2.49 per 500 bd ft? That's $.00498 per bd ft....less than a half cent per bd ft in bar oil.

The consumables seems to be the biggest direct expense...gas, oil, and bar oil. Things like chains, bars, and chainsaws get spread out over so many board feet that the cost becomes negligible. For instance, a $1000 chainsaw would cost $0.1 per bd ft after milling 10,000 bd feet. I daresay they last a lot longer than that....mine isn't even broken in yet after 500 bd ft.
(And that isn't even factoring in the value of the lumber being milled....just the direct cost per bd ft. of milling it.)


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## aggiewoodbutchr

Newfie said:


> "what is you time worth?"



Amen!

My chainsaw mill is for the logs I can't fit onto the hydraulic timberking I have access to. I enjoy milling with the chainsaw, but no matter how you look at it, you can't beat the producton and ease of a bandmill.

The waves in the boards can be prevented with proper setup AND a well maintained blade. But I've never seen a wave that a planer couldn't take out (well almost).

Each setup has it's place and none can replace the other.

I like them all!:greenchainsaw:


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## carvinmark

WRW said:


> To answer your question...yes.
> 
> Soap is a good way to remove the lubricant that the chain needs, causing early failure. Maybe a better solution (no pun intended) would be to add some diesel fuel to the aux. oilers oil.


Thanks for the info,BELIVE IT OR NOT, I don't want to remove anything the chain needs, just want to add to it! I may try the diesel.


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## carvinmark

coveredinsap said:


> Thanks for the link. Yes, that looks like a good setup. It's too bad that he doesn't currently seem to be selling complete units, only the plans. I particularly liked this page explaining the problems with bandsaw mills:
> 
> http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/bandmills.htm
> 
> There is a tradeoff with everything, whether it be a chainsaw, bandsaw, or circular saw style mill. What works or is best for one person may not be best for another ....I personally think that the chainsaw style mills are a good solution.
> 
> As for the bar lubrication....I believe the circular mill sold by Bailey's uses water as a blade lubricant...as do a few others I think. I'm not sure how well it would work with a chainsaw, however....particularly the soap and water mixture, as it seems that that would tend to remove the protective coating of oil from the bar/chain rather than assist in cutting....making a big mess in the process. I was thinking more along the lines of a biodegradable oil in place of chain oil, some type of less toxic mix. Maybe mineral oil would be a good substitute.
> 
> Anyways, I'd like to see photos and hear more about your setup, if possible. What type of chainsaw, how it came into your possesion, etc.
> 
> Thanks again for the link.


You are very welcome, I may try mineral oil,but have to checkm into the cost. I currently use a 395XP w/36"bar. I did some swaping for log furniture and some carvings for the mill.I ran band saw mills befor and thaught they were great,they are a hell of a lot fasyer,but they don't cut as flat.I don't cut for customers, I sell the finished product....I can make it any size I want.


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## carvinmark

*chainsaw mill advocate*



rb_in_va said:


> Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not! Anyone know what it would cost to build this mill?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's pretty clear! I hereby nominate coveredinsap the official Arboristsite chainsaw mill advocate.


Just to be fair,lets face it,every saw that runs through dirt,ect.,will make you stop and deal with it. I love my C.S.M.


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## carvinmark

WRW said:


> rb_in_va said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not!
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> If you notice, on his production page, he is only cutting cants...not logs...so he is not running into any grit or rocks, but his description of the bandmill's faults has them cutting logs, not cants.
> 
> Some people will swallow anything!
> 
> 
> 
> I cut logs Only-I DON'T SWALLOW ANYTHING!!!
Click to expand...


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## carvinmark

WRW said:


> BTW, carvinmark, that is a neat set-up. I don't believe I've ever seen anything quite like it.


When I literally triped upon it I was amazed,It is a great mill


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## coveredinsap

> what is you time worth?



I found that the majority of my time was not spent in milling...milling was the smallest part of it. The majority of time was spent doing the other things required to stage the logs for the cut and deal with the lumber after the cut....not the cut itself. Servicing and cleaning the equipment during and after the milling was also a little time consuming....but I imagine that that is a constant no matter what style mill is used.

The most absolute time-consuming item was getting the logs correctly positioned and adjusted for slabbing, and the readjustments that were necessary as slabbing commenced. That also appears to be a constant with all types of mills.

The fact is, I thorougly enjoyed the chainsaw cutting aspect of it. That was the real fun.


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## carvinmark

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Do a search here on "veggie oil" or "canola" and you'll find quite a lot of discussion. There are quite a few folks here that have gone to veggie oil only, been doing it for years, and won't go back.
> 
> I plan on switching myself.


I carve,so oil is a problem,we have switched to cooking oil also


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## carvinmark

Newfie said:


> Which seems like a slam dunk decision when looking at those numbers but it ignores the big question, "what is you time worth?" My time is valuable and a bandmill's production is vastly superior to any csm set-up out there.
> 
> That $1 per BF seems pretty arbitrary and overinflated. A bandmill cuts more BF per sharpening, the sharpenings cost roughly the same, new blades are cheaper than a loop of ripping chain and last as long. Fuel consumption per Bf is far superior on a Bandmill.
> 
> If you are milling as hobby or in small quantities, csm's are great and one of the reasons I used one. When the milling became a business offshoot the bandmill was the only practical and money making solution.


Bandmills are faster,two - three times faster, but what do you get?


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## rb_in_va

coveredinsap said:


> I found that the majority of my time was not spent in milling...milling was the smallest part of it. The majority of time was spent doing the other things required to stage the logs for the cut and deal with the lumber after the cut....not the cut itself. Servicing and cleaning the equipment during and after the milling was also a little time consuming....but I imagine that that is a constant no matter what style mill is used.
> 
> The most absolute time-consuming item was getting the logs correctly positioned and adjusted for slabbing, and the readjustments that were necessary as slabbing commenced. That also appears to be a constant with all types of mills.
> 
> The fact is, I thorougly enjoyed the chainsaw cutting aspect of it. That was the real fun.



Sap,
How many logs have you milled with your set-up? Not busting on you, just asking. I found that after a few logs the fun had worn off, plus I had nowhere to store the wood.


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## carvinmark

Newfie said:


> And my bandmill uses water for lubrication as opposed to bar oil at $7 a gallon. Makes that $12.40 MBF look even less believable unless he's milling timbers as opposed to 4/4.


You pay 7.00 per gallon?


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## WRW

carvinmark said:


> Thanks for the info,BELIVE IT OR NOT, I don't want to remove anything the chain needs, just want to add to it! I may try the diesel.



You may have solved the problem with the aux. oiler alone.

Sorry about the thread degenerating into a missing patch. :sword:


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## carvinmark

coveredinsap said:


> Thanks, I'll do that. The only problem as I see it would be the tendency for the oil to go rancid over time....but maybe that has been addressed or is not an issue with something like olive oil. In either case, I'll take a look....thanks again. (Hey, speaking of canola...now that they've genetically engineered it to be 'Roundup ready', maybe they can genetically engineer it to stick to a chainsaw bar better  )
> 
> 
> In other words, what you're saying is that the advertizing claims regarding Lumbermate 2000 are completely believeable, but they're not for this unit? That's somewhat laughable. If anything, this guy has backed up his claims with actual figures, which is a lot more than I can say for most manufacturer's products.
> 
> I have yet to see anyone dispute his cost per board ft price, or the expense and problems with keeping a bandsaw sharp and cutting. As for the clogging aspect of a bandsaw....that is totally believable by me, having just been literally 'covered in sap' milling this cedar tree. It wasn't even an issue with the chainsaw, other than the sap getting all over everything... and it never affected the chainsaw's cutting ability. Neither was it ever an issue cutting thru the sappy cedar bark.
> I can hardly believethat it wouldn't, however, be an issue with a bandsaw. Particularly in an instance like this where the sap ran like honey.
> 
> 
> That isn't the case according to the Procut site. He claims that bandsaw owners are frequently disappointed in their expensive purchase, and sell them to go back to chainsaw mills such as his. In fact, he claims that all but the most expensive bandsaw mills with the largest engines and thickest bandsaw blades cut wavy lumber that has to be run thru a planer before it's useful. That's a far cry from what you're claiming about them, although in your defense you did state that the bandsaw blade 'wanders' sometimes when it hits a knot, something that the Procut site also states...correctly it would appear.
> 
> No, I'm thinking that one of these Procut-style guide racks, set up with both a chainsaw mill powerhead and a chainsaw-powered bandsaw mill ...easily switchable depending on need, would be the ideal rig. ...And at pennies to the dollar compared to the other available options, including the Lumbermate 2000.


Hay guys, lets be fair,I spend a lot of time setting my mill to cut correctly,IT AIN'T EASY to get it right,but when it is,it's awsum,when it ain't,it's terrible.


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## carvinmark

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Amen!
> 
> My chainsaw mill is for the logs I can't fit onto the hydraulic timberking I have access to. I enjoy milling with the chainsaw, but no matter how you look at it, you can't beat the producton and ease of a bandmill.
> 
> The waves in the boards can be prevented with proper setup AND a well maintained blade. But I've never seen a wave that a planer couldn't take out (well almost).
> 
> Each setup has it's place and none can replace the other.
> 
> I like them all!:greenchainsaw:


 He is correct,each has it's place,I just can't afford a bandmill.


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## carvinmark

rb_in_va said:


> Sap,
> How many logs have you milled with your set-up? Not busting on you, just asking. I found that after a few logs the fun had worn off, plus I had nowhere to store the wood.


I know from first hand experience about having too much wood to store,just build more shelter!!!


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## carvinmark

WRW said:


> You may have solved the problem with the aux. oiler alone.
> 
> Sorry about the thread degenerating into a missing patch. :sword:


Thats coll Bill, hope it works, I'll let everyone know soon


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## rb_in_va

carvinmark said:


> I know from first hand experience about having too much wood to store,just build more shelter!!!



I had a condo at the time! Barely had room for the saw and mill.


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## carvinmark

rb_in_va said:


> I had a condo at the time! Barely had room for the saw and mill.


I Live in the country,lots a room


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## coveredinsap

Hmmmm, that's odd. If I'm reading this right, this is saying that chainsaw bar oil is a mineral oil based product? What's so bad about that? Mineral oil is what you use to seal a kitchen chopping block or cutting board. You can take a swig of it...in fact it is a laxative...and the worse that will happen is that you'll have loose bowels.

If you're constipated on the job, you've got the laxative right there in your chainsaw. How handy is that? 

http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/5/173.htm


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## Jim Shockey

I built the procut 2 or 3 years ago and i really like it. I have it set up whith winches to load and to turn the logs and to pull it thru the log. I had a small sthl when I started and then whent to a sthl 51, 066 and 084.I cut all hard woods that I use myself.Cutting white oak cants 30 inchs square and 11 foot long I can only make about three cuts before my chain is ready for the grinder. I get very good and even lumber from this mill but my cost to mill a board foot is way higher then the figures stated before. When I built it I went with the best of everything and put all the extras on it that I could think of and, not counting the saw heads, I have about $1800.00 in it. A band mill would be five times faster, but I'm going to stay with this one because I'm satfied with it and I do not want to start over now with somthing new.


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## carvinmark

Hi Jim, glad to know that i'm not the only one with one of these. I' happy with mine to. Do you use an oiler on the other end? Hardwood must be tough,the guy I got mine from said he cut a lot of hardwood with it. I can cut about three hours before I need to resharpen,this is in pine,cedar I can go about twice as long.


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## Newfie

Sap, we've all agreed that the chainsaw mill has its niche. Your argument is that is far superior and economical to a bandmill in all scenarios. It's cool that you enjoyed milling up a handful of cedar logs. Try it out on a 1000 bf of 4/4 oak and then get back to us. If I took my time ion the bandmill, it would be done in a day and a half,stacked and stickered. I don't run a mill with all of the hydraulic bells and whistles either.

I cut a lot of lumber, I needed a bandmill, you are happy w/ your set-up.

Lawnmowers are inexpensive tools to mow my lawn, but I wouldn't say it was a better tool to mow a field just because the initial investment was so much less.


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## coveredinsap

If you have $1800 + $200 in consumables (gas, oil, etc) into it so far, then your direct cost per bd ft would be $2000 divided by the total bd ft produced. If you've produced 10,000 bd ft so far then your cost per bd ft would be $0.20 (twenty cents). $0.20 x 1000 bd ft = $200 per 1000 bd ft. But that's the direct cost...which is offset by the value of the lumber you produce. And the more you mill the more your costs go down. (Naturally, hardwoods would have a higher cost per bd ft.)
$0.20 a bd ft is looking pretty cheap when you consider that you can't even get a 2x4 or little piece of trim (such as baseboard) for $0.20 a _lineal_ ft...let alone bd ft.

What's your labor worth? Well, if I've got a barn to build, no matter how I slice it I'm coming out a lot better if I mill as much of the lumber as possible myself and build it myself, than if I pay for the lumber and have a contractor build it for me. My lumber is basically at way below wholesale prices (as opposed to a retail price + contractor markup), and my own labor is at a straightforward reasonable rate as opposed to paying inflated contractor rates to cover the built-in profit and assorted other fees that a contractor collects in his hourly rate.



> Lawnmowers are inexpensive tools to mow my lawn, but I wouldn't say it was a better tool to mow a field just because the initial investment was so much less.



By the same tolken, neither would a huge tractor that cuts a 10' swath be very cost effective, unless you're cutting acre after acre after acre of lawn on a daily basis, like state highway crews do.


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## Newfie

The real killer that is missing from your equation is opportunity cost.

What else could you be doing or how much could you be earning with those multitude of hours tied up in completing a large project with the wrong tool?

Add in the opportunity cost and see where your cost per bf goes.

Efficiency in the right hands = $$$$


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## coveredinsap

"Opportunity cost"? Did you just make that one up? Because it doesn't matter how much I'm earning, if I'm paying it all back out plus some for a contractor to do the work that I could be doing, then I might as well be doing it myself.

Yeah, if you're earning a ton of money then maybe It'd be best for you to hire a contractor. By the same tolken, if you had a ton of money and wanted a remote cabin in Alaska, you could just hire a huge helicopter and fly one in on pallets rather than pack in an Alaskan mill and build one yourself.

Different strokes for different folks. The fact is, even if I had the ton of money I'd do the cabin myself....."opportunity cost" be damned.


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## Sawyer Rob

> I can hardly believethat it wouldn't, however, be an issue with a bandsaw. Particularly in an instance like this where the sap ran like honey.


 
All it takes is a slash of pine sol, or liguid dish soap per 5 gallons of water, and there's NOTHING sticking to my bands! Nothing!



> In other words, what you're saying is that the advertizing claims regarding Lumbermate 2000 are completely believeable,


 
Not only believable, but i'd be happy to let anyone that wants, to come by and see for themselves. It does everything Norwood says it does, and i'd be happy to give "anyone" a demo so they can see it for themselves. I'd be happy to make them a cut so thin, you can hold it up, and the light will come through it! Can you do that with your csm??



> in your defense you did state that the bandsaw blade 'wanders' sometimes when it hits a knot,


 
It may help you "IF" you would actually read what i said, and not what you want to hear. Go read it again. I stated a few things that would MAKE IT HAPPEN, i never said it does happen all the time. Point being, it's OPERATOR ERROR when it does happen....



Tell me genius, how long would it take you to saw out 200 stickers like in the pict.? Could you even do it on your csm??? You "are" smart enough to use stickers in your lumber piles aren't you?? Don't tell me you would have to use a tablesaw or some other tool to do what a band mill does "quickly" and "easily"...









> Well, if I've got a barn to build, no matter how I slice it I'm coming out a lot better if I mill as much of the lumber as possible myself and build it myself



Agreed! And you'd get done 10 times FASTER with a band mill! In fact, you'd have time to mill even more lumber, so you could sell it and pay for that big tractor you "think" you need... 



> By the same tolken, if you had a ton of money and wanted a remote cabin in Alaska, you could just hire a huge helicopter and fly one in on pallets rather than pack in an Alaskan mill and build one yourself.



Don't tell you your also an authority on Alaskan bush???? Want to compare notes on that subject too???? I lived there for 25 years.. So, i'm willing to hear what you "think" you know on that subject too.

Rob


----------



## coveredinsap

> Tell me genius, how long would it take you to saw out 200 stickers like in the pict.? Could you even do it on your csm??? You "are" smart enough to use stickers in your lumber piles aren't you?? Don't tell me you would have to use a tablesaw or some other tool to do what a band mill does "quickly" and "easily"...



Talk about the right tool for the job (or in your instance the wrong one)....
It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone could rip those stickers faster on a gas powered bandsaw mill than they could be done on a decent electric table saw.....in likely less than half the time. Not to mention the huge waste of energy running such a big saw for such minimal needs as 1.5"x1.5"x6' stickers. Next you'll be telling me you made them out of hardwood instead of just some waste softwood.

And that's the difference between a good carpenter and a 'sawyer'.

FYI, no stickers between the slabs of cedar. I need them to stay wet until they're ripped into grape stakes and immediately attached to the fence. They dry in place.

Hey, by the way, if those stickers are wet you better put something heavy on them to keep them from turning into pretzels


----------



## Finnbear

sap,
What is ludicrous is to spout opinions without the experience to back them up. It is obvious that you've never been around a bandmill working or didn't pay very close attention if you have. You cut stickers very efficiently on a bandmill by cutting a stack (a dozen or so) of 4/4 boards all the same width and then turning the whole stack on edge and then sawing it at 4/4. Each pass takes off a dozen or so stickers just as slick as you please and WAY faster than I can ever cut 'em on the Unisaw. There are all sorts of opinions on what wood makes the best stickers but to me the best is what I happen to have a surplus of - may be hardwood or softwood depending on what is being cut at the time. I have a bunch of short (5ft) Poplar logs that are destined to become stickers because I have a boatload of Poplar right now and I need a boatload of stickers to replace the ones I will use for the two dozen or so Oak, Ash, and Cherry logs piled up out front. You'll learn some of these tricks if you saw logs long enough. A great way to learn a lot about sawing is to scrounge up a dozen or so logs and hire a good sawyer with a bandmill to cut them up for you. Set it up with you as the sawyer's helper for the day and then pay close attention all day and ask lots of questions. Most sawyers for hire will work with you like this and you can learn a lot in a short amount of time if you pay attention.
Finnbear



coveredinsap said:


> Talk about the right tool for the job (or in your instance the wrong one)....
> It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone could rip those stickers faster on a gas powered bandsaw mill than they could be done on a decent electric table saw.....in likely less than half the time. Not to mention the huge waste of energy running such a big saw for such minimal needs as 1.5"x1.5"x6' stickers. Next you'll be telling me you made them out of hardwood instead of just some waste softwood.
> 
> And that's the difference between a good carpenter and a 'sawyer'.
> 
> FYI, no stickers between the slabs of cedar. I need them to stay wet until they're ripped into grape stakes and immediately attached to the fence. They dry in place.
> 
> Hey, by the way, if those stickers are wet you better put something heavy on them to keep them from turning into pretzels


----------



## clearance

I helped run an Alakan mill for about an hour with a 066. I have worked a lot of construction and run many saws, I have read many milling threads here and learned a lot for when I do it in the future. Thanks. Covered in Sap stared milling with a 390 Stilh and now uses a Husky 455, nuff said.


----------



## Newfie

I wish that he were a troll but it's obvious he's just an arrogant fool.

He knows very little about chainsaw mills, nothing about bandmills and almost as much about economics.


So get back to us and let us know how the gooey twisted mess of chipper food works out for a fence because you didn't stack and sticker, because slabs will twist,warp and cup especially if live-sawn like you did. Tell us what colors the mold is that is it grew because it sat in a wet heap.

Come back and tell us how much the new piston for 455 will be after you smoke it. Lots of stupid things in history have been done once, doesn't mean it really worked or was a good idea.

Come back and let us explain to you why your carpentry business went under because you were busy saving a few bucks on lumber and paying yourself a fair wage. To keep your cost analysis fair, if you use the chainsaw mill to mill the lumber for the barn, make sure to use a shovel for the footings and handmix the concrete for foundation or slab. No cheating. Be sure to complete apprenticeships in all those areas to insure real quality.

Or alternatively, stop talking out of your a$$ and join in the conversation with a friendly exchange of ideas and techniques. You would be amazed at how much info you can gain from people that actually have years of experience in the field. You could think of it as an apprenticeship.


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## coveredinsap

> A great way to learn a lot about sawing is to scrounge up a dozen or so logs and hire a good sawyer with a bandmill to cut them up for you. Set it up with you as the sawyer's helper for the day and then pay close attention all day and ask lots of questions. Most sawyers for hire will work with you like this and you can learn a lot in a short amount of time if you pay attention.
> Finnbear



Thanks but, from some of what I've seen here, I think I'll have to pass on that offer.


----------



## Newfie

clearance said:


> Covered in Sap stared milling with a 390 Stilh and now uses a Husky 455, nuff said.




Almost forgot about that one. And it was all because the Stihl dealer was a putz.

I worked for a guy like this once. Every sentence began with,"My friend told me" or "I read on the internet". He figured he could GC his own house since there wasn't anything to it and the contractor was just padding his bill with silly stuff like profit. Oddly enough this guy had the worst time with subs. Everyone he hired just didn't have a clue as to what they were doing even though they all came with high recommendations. Can you imagine that string of bad luck?


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## aggiewoodbutchr

carvinmark said:


> He is correct,each has it's place,I just can't afford a bandmill.




I can't either. I'm just lucky to have access to a bada$$ bandmill that just sits most of the time. It's nice to have friends with money.


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## Finnbear

coveredinsap said:


> Thanks but, from some of what I've seen here, I think I'll have to pass on that offer.



That was not an offer. It was a suggestion. Read closer and pay attention. An unwillingness to educate yourself means you doom yourself to failure. The man who thinks he knows everything actually is fooling himself because he knows very little.

You know what you know.
You know what you don't know.
You don't know what you don't know.


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## coveredinsap

> I wish that he were a troll but it's obvious he's just an arrogant fool.
> 
> He knows very little about chainsaw mills, nothing about bandmills and almost as much about economics.
> 
> 
> So get back to us and let us know how the gooey twisted mess of chipper food works out for a fence because you didn't stack and sticker, because slabs will twist,warp and cup especially if live-sawn like you did. Tell us what colors the mold is that is it grew because it sat in a wet heap.
> 
> Come back and tell us how much the new piston for 455 will be after you smoke it. Lots of stupid things in history have been done once, doesn't mean it really worked or was a good idea.
> 
> Come back and let us explain to you why your carpentry business went under because you were busy saving a few bucks on lumber and paying yourself a fair wage. To keep your cost analysis fair, if you use the chainsaw mill to mill the lumber for the barn, make sure to use a shovel for the footings and hadmix the concrete for foundation or slab. No cheating. Be sure to complete apprenticeships in all those areas to insure real quality.
> 
> Or alternatively, stop talking out of your a$$ and join in the conversation with a friendly exchange of ideas and techniques. You would be amazed at how much info you can gain from people that actually have years of experience in the field. You could think of it as an apprenticeship.



Speaking of an arrogant fool, here's a prime example of what you get when you combine book, or 'read', knowledge with, uh, nothing.

I know that the chainsaw I used fell within the rated cc category for the small log mill that I used, as recommended by the company that made it, particularly considering the treee was a softwood....and cedar at that. I know that it was sufficient for the job at hand, and actually did better than I expected it would. I know that if and when I'm ready to mill bigger or harder stuff, I'll need both a bigger chainsaw and a larger Alaskan mill.

I know that although the cedar is stacked (with plenty of air space), if it's stickered and 'allowed to dry' as suggested it will likely twist and cup and split all to hell before I get to using it. Ditto if I try to rip it before I'm ready to nail it to the fence. I only need it to sit there for 30 days or so before it I'm ready to use it.....and it won't twist, cup or split unless it's stickered and allowed to dry before I'm ready to use it. Once it's spiked to the fence I don't care what it does. Not all lumber benefits by immediate stickering. Imagine that.

And mold? Who gives a flying f**k? It's a fence for christ's sake.

As for the barn footings, I'll likely be getting one of the small backhoe/tractors and digging them myself. I need one anyways. I suppose I should go take lessons first as opposed to just using the backhoe experience I've learned on the job over the years? Yeah, right.

Dude, while you may be able to gain knowledge on this forum, indeed....there is plenty here if you know what to look for, by no means is it all accurate....probably not even by half. You've got to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff, and "info ...from people that actually have years of experience in the field" is largely only a matter of opinion.



> You know what you know.
> You know what you don't know.
> You don't know what you don't know.



Huh? Quotes from Rumsfeld? Yeah, he's showed us what he 'knows', eh? Not exactly someone to be taking notes from, IMHO.


----------



## rb_in_va

Sawyer Rob said:


> Don't tell you your also an authority on Alaskan bush???? Want to compare notes on that subject too???? I lived there for 25 years.. So, i'm willing to hear what you "think" you know on that subject too.



Rob,
I didn't see a section about the Alaskan bush on the Procut site, so Sap can't speak about it from his experience of reading it on the internet.

btw, Opprotunity Cost = What you gave up when you chose the route you took. For example, when Robert Frost took the road less traveled, his opportunity cost was the road more often traveled. Sort of like you Sap, you opted for the road less traveled with your milling.


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## Newfie

rb_in_va said:


> btw, Opprotunity Cost = What you gave up when you chose the route you took. For example, when Robert Frost took the road less traveled, his opportunity cost was the road more often traveled. Sort of like you Sap, you opted for the road less traveled with your milling.




watcha talkin' bout Willis? Remember, I just made that chit up!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## coveredinsap

> I didn't see a section about the Alaskan bush on the Procut site, so Sap can't speak about it from his experience of reading it on the internet.



Here's the thing about the internet. I could call myself 'Sawyer Sap' as my user name here and say I've been milling trees all my life in the wilds of Alaska....but that doesn't mean it's true. Anyone can say anything here about what they have or haven't done, or the experience they may or may not have, or what they may or may not know. (And judging by some of what is posted around here, they do.) There is no way to verify anything people say here...this is the internet. So you've got to cull through the information presented, and decide for yourself what you want to believe is factual.

I've never been to Alaska. The furthest north I've ever been is Canada. But no matter...the point is, I'm not out to bs anyone here. If you want to take what I say as advice, then fine. If you don't, then fine. But don't attempt to piss down my neck and tell me it's raining, 'cause I'm not buying it. Someone else might though....they might believe you're all 'experts' here. I know better. Does that piss people off? Of course it does.
From what I've seen, many of the 'amateurs' on this forum actually know more than many of the purported 'experts' here...they just don't know, or haven't realized they're being bullsh***ed yet.

Sorry.....I digress. The topic is milling with the Procut Mill, which despite what the 'experts' claim, is a nice rig. I only wish they came preassembled, as my welding generally sucks


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## Newfie

coveredinsap said:


> Sorry.....I digress. The topic is milling with the Procut Mill, which despite what the 'experts' claim, is a nice rig. I only wish they came preassembled, as my welding generally sucks




Which is where the confusion arises. Nobody said the procut sucks, just that the sales pitch was full of sh!t. I'm suspect of any salesman who's first instinct is to tear down the competition rather than allow a product to compete on its own merits. 

Most bandmillers started out as chainsaw millers for varieties of reasons and then moved on to a bandmill, no doubt for a variety fo different reasons. Each have their place. If I was milling large long beams, I'd get out the Alaskan in a heartbeat. Milling 10 MBF of 4/4 lumber, my woodmizer has me done and moving on to the next money maker so much faster.

I find it odd that you doubt the anecdotal evidence of guys that have experience in the operation of these mills, some for pleasure, some for profit (or both). You would much rather rely on the economic analysis of a guy whose sole aim is to sell you something. Seems like poor judgement in that regard.

I imagine most could really care less whether you think you are right or not. But don't come here and sort the chaff for us when by admission of your own experience, you don't know the wheat from the chaff.


Have you checked out the F0restry f0rum? It's full of amateurs and "pros" who would get a kick out of what you "know to be true".


Time to pack my backpack with my books so I can go to work and earn a living working with trees,logs and lumber.:bang:


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## rb_in_va

coveredinsap said:


> I only wish they came preassembled, as my welding generally sucks



Don't worry, I'm sure the Procut site will soon roll out a section on welding. Then you will be an expert on that!


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## aggiewoodbutchr

I don't want to jump in on the 'sap bashing but I comment anyways...





coveredinsap said:


> Talk about the right tool for the job (or in your instance the wrong one)....
> It's absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone could rip those stickers faster on a gas powered bandsaw mill than they could be done on a decent electric table saw.....in likely less than half the time. Not to mention the huge waste of energy running such a big saw for such minimal needs as 1.5"x1.5"x6' stickers. Next you'll be telling me you made them out of hardwood instead of just some waste softwood.
> 
> And that's the difference between a good carpenter and a 'sawyer'.
> 
> FYI, no stickers between the slabs of cedar. I need them to stay wet until they're ripped into grape stakes and immediately attached to the fence. They dry in place.
> 
> Hey, by the way, if those stickers are wet you better put something heavy on them to keep them from turning into pretzels



As I said before, I'm a woodworker first and a "sawyer" second. Ripping stickers can be exponentially faster on a mill than a table saw. I try to save a large limb, low grade log, etc. of the same species solely for the purpose of making stickers. I've made over 1000 in less than an hour before. Even if you don't have an extra log you can quickly gang rip the cants into stickers. Using the same species minimizes the risk of sticker stain but it's not 100%, nothing is. I've even experienced sticker "bleaching" when using a light colored sticker on dark wood.

A word of caution about stacking without stickering. Now that the face of the boards have been exposed to air you may get unwanted mold. I don't fully understand your need for them to be wet but you my think about stickering your stack then covering it with poly. This should let the surface or the boards dry but retain the majority of the internal moisture.


----------



## Sawyer Rob

> Here's the thing about the internet. I could call myself 'Sawyer Sap' as my user name here and say I've been milling trees all my life in the wilds of Alaska....but that doesn't mean it's true. Anyone can say anything here about what they have or haven't done, or the experience they may or may not have, or what they may or may not know. (And judging by some of what is posted around here, they do.) There is no way to verify anything people say here...this is the internet. So you've got to cull through the information presented, and decide for yourself what you want to believe is factual.



So, what is it your saying????? Are you saying that i never lived in Alaska?? That i never build a cabin in the bush there???? I do believe i was there when you was still pi$$ing in your diaper... hahahahaaa

From all of the answers here, it's not hard to see that what i have said is what everyone else here that owns a band mill has "experienced". Only "you" with NO experience feels the way you do.. I guess everyone here is wrong but you... hahahaaaa If you would take a few minutes to think about it, maybe.... just maybe you could figure out on your own that "if" you had some actual experience on this whole subject, (instead of googleing for your answers) you just may think differently. 

Some of your answers are so far out in left field, it's obvious you really don't know what your talking about... For instance, i have two unisaws and also a 16" Huss with power feed, and there's NO way a tablesaw is a better or faster way to make stickers than a bandsaw... "If" you actually had some experience, you'd know that too...

BTW, stickers "aren't" 1.5" x 1.5" x 6'





Rob


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## rb_in_va

coveredinsap said:


> Thanks but, from some of what I've seen here, I think I'll have to pass on that offer.



I think the above is the new winner in the "coveredinsap's dumbest statements" contest. But who's keeping track, right?


----------



## Newfie

rb_in_va said:


> I think the above is the new winner in the "coveredinsap's dumbest statements" contest. But who's keeping track, right?




I don't know what keeps him sticking around. He knows that he is right and that we are all BS'ers who don't jack about anything. Not much room for conversation and sharing.


----------



## Gologit

Newfie said:


> I don't know what keeps him sticking around. He knows that he is right and that we are all BS'ers who don't jack about anything. Not much room for conversation and sharing.



Sap must be a glutton for punishment. He's his own worst enemy,thats for sure. When so many different people tell him the same thing,and try to help him,and he just spits on the advice and guidance he's given it makes it hard to even take him seriously.
I don't know anything about milling. Other than rough cutting some cedar fence posts with a Beam Machine I wouldn't even know where or how to begin. With that thought in mind I"d sure be willing to listen to and take the advice of the people here who know what they're doing. Sure theres some disagreement among sawyers buts thats to be expected and even that can be a source of good information.
Everyone here has,at one time or another,tried to help him. He doesn't avail himself of the help offered. 
If he wants to go back to square one and just ask a question and thank the responder for their help and build his information and skill sets and ask more and learn more he could still get the kind of help he needs. If he persists in antagonizing the very people who could help him the most...well, I wouldn't pour water on him if his guts were on fire.


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## Lakeside53

Damn, and I thought sap just lurked on the chainsaw forum.. I see he's made just as many friends over here!!!


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## Lakeside53

coveredinsap said:


> Hmmmm, that's odd. If I'm reading this right, this is saying that chainsaw bar oil is a mineral oil based product? What's so bad about that? Mineral oil is what you use to seal a kitchen chopping block or cutting board. You can take a swig of it...in fact it is a laxative...and the worse that will happen is that you'll have loose bowels.
> 
> If you're constipated on the job, you've got the laxative right there in your chainsaw. How handy is that?
> 
> http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/5/173.htm




You aren't reading it right... Go ahead and drink all the USA bar oil you like... it's just 30 wt (roughly) motor oil with additives to make it stickier...


----------



## spacemule

I've always wanted to try a Peterson sawmil.


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## spacemule

Newfie said:


> watcha talkin' bout Willis? Remember, I just made that chit up!:hmm3grin2orange:


Ha ha. Ironically enough, I remember "opportunity cost" as being one of the first basic economic concepts in the first chapter of the first economic book I ever picked up--Principles of Microeconomics. This is too funny.


----------



## carvinmark

*peterson sawmill*

Wow!!! Now that looks like a giant,I like it,I like it a lot! Is that avaliable in a kit or only complete.Thanks for the pisc...Mark


----------



## Newfie

carvinmark said:


> Wow!!! Now that looks like a giant,I like it,I like it a lot! Is that avaliable in a kit or only complete.Thanks for the pisc...Mark



I beleive the initial investment gets you enough to do 10 or 11 feet of cutting and then you purchase add on rail sections. Not sure on costs or specs, just what I remember from the last sawmill shootout I went to.



Mule you had to ruin everything! First it was Alaskan, then a Lucas, then the Procut, we were taking wagers on which non-bandmill sap would latch onto. Maybe he'll go for a logosol.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Newfie

spacemule said:


> Ha ha. Ironically enough, I remember "opportunity cost" as being one of the first basic economic concepts in the first chapter of the first economic book I ever picked up--Principles of Microeconomics. This is too funny.




Yeah me too. I thought it was a very basic business principle, but the expert has told me I'm making it up, so I'm sure we are both mistaken.


----------



## coveredinsap

> I don't know what keeps him sticking around. He knows that he is right and that we are all BS'ers who don't jack about anything. Not much room for conversation and sharing.



Uh, no.

Although I know a guy who reminds me of many folks around here. Everything he owns is 'the best' and worth big bucks. Everything anyone else owns is 'not worth jack'. If someone asks his opinion on something he doesn't own, it's a POS. Of course, as soon as he buys that same exact POS from someone, or comes into possesion of one in some other manner (at a rock-bottom price reflective of it's worthlessness), it immediately gains value and stature. It seems that just the simple process of him owning it makes it of high quality and subsequent high value. The Midas touch. Imagine that, eh?


----------



## coveredinsap

> Maybe he'll go for a logosol.



Maybe I'll "go for" the one that I decide is sufficient for the job at hand. Just like the 455 Husky for milling the cedar.

Wow, what a concept!!!!....someone makes up thir mind for themselves rather than blindly following others.

By the way...it's been raining here for about 42 of the past 45 days, which is why I've been posting here lately. What the heck are the excuses for you other 'experts' not being out there having at it? The rest of the country's been looking pretty warm and dry lately....so what are you doing here?


----------



## rb_in_va

coveredinsap said:


> Maybe I'll "go for" the one that I decide is sufficient for the job at hand. Just like the 455 Husky for milling the cedar.
> 
> The rest of the country's been looking pretty warm and dry lately....so what are you doing here?



I understand using the right tool for the job, really I do. I also think it's wise to plan for other jobs you might do with the same tool. So if you decide to mill some hardwood in the future, the 455 would not be the right tool.

What am I doing here? I'm at work! Have a nice day.


----------



## coveredinsap

> I understand using the right tool for the job, really I do. I also think it's wise to plan for other jobs you might do with the same tool. So if you decide to mill some hardwood in the future, the 455 would not be the right tool.



Excellent point.

The 455, however, was purchased specifically to mill the cedar tree using the small log mill, and to become an all around saw afterwards. When the time comes to mill more and/or harder woods, it was the intention from the beginning to get a larger dedicated saw and a MKIII Alaskan full sized mill with auxillary oiler. I thought I made that clear in past posts....but evidently not.

Small log mill=small logs, Regular MKIII Alaskan mill=large logs

In the same vein, It was never stated that all milling was going to necessarily be done by the chainsaw mill(s)....the right tool for the job and all that. Depending on other things yet to be determined, i.e. whether I will be needing to mill the logs in place where they lay...or am able to transport them to a dedicated milling site, the general size of the available logs, etc., all determines what particular choice(s) will be made.

And the bottom line is that all types of mills have their plusses and minuses. There is no one mill for every circumstance...although again, the chainsaw mill appears to be the most adaptable of them all.


----------



## rb_in_va

coveredinsap said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> The 455, however, was purchased specifically to mill the cedar tree using the small log mill, and to become an all around saw afterwards. When the time comes to mill more and/or harder woods, it was the intention from the beginning to get a larger dedicated saw and a MKIII Alaskan full sized mill with auxillary oiler. I thought I made that clear in past posts....but evidently not.
> 
> Small log mill=small logs, Regular MKIII Alaskan mill=large logs
> 
> In the same vein, It was never stated that all milling was going to necessarily be done by the chainsaw mill(s)....the right tool for the job and all that. Depending on other things yet to be determined, i.e. whether I will be needing to mill the logs in place where they lay...or am able to transport them to a dedicated milling site, the general size of the available logs, etc., all determines what particular choice(s) will be made.
> 
> And the bottom line is that all types of mills have their plusses and minuses. There is no one mill for every circumstance...although again, the chainsaw mill appears to be the most adaptable of them all.



Now we're talkin! Too bad you didn't join up earlier. I had a 36" Alaskan/066 milling set-up I would have sold you, but I sold the mill last fall.


----------



## Sawyer Rob

> I beleive the initial investment gets you enough to do 10 or 11 feet of cutting and then you purchase add on rail sections. Not sure on costs or specs, just what I remember from the last sawmill shootout I went to.



Is "this" the shootout your talking about?






I was there too, in fact i'm in the picture...

Rob


----------



## Sawyer Rob

> By the way...it's been raining here for about 42 of the past 45 days, which is why I've been posting here lately. What the heck are the excuses for you other 'experts' not being out there having at it?



I was sawing on monday, it's so much faster than a csm that now i can take the rest of the week off... HAHAHAHAHAHAAA

Rob


----------



## rb_in_va

Sawyer Rob said:


> Is "this" the shootout your talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was there too, in fact i'm in the picture...
> 
> Rob



Where is the shootout held? Which one are you?


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## Newfie

The shootout I saw was at the Northeast Forest Products Expo in Springfield Ma. I believe that was the 2004. The expo was in Bangor,Me. last year and the "shootout" went to an independent location in Ohio if I remember correctly.

Splitting firewood and sawing white pine this week. My really expensive equipment is so great and so fast that I can take nice leisurely lunches.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## gumneck

Newfie said:


> The shootout I saw was at the Northeast Forest Products Expo in Springfield Ma. I believe that was the 2004. The expo was in Bangor,Me. last year and the "shootout" went to an independent location in Ohio if I remember correctly.
> 
> Splitting firewood and sawing white pine this week. My really expensive equipment is so great and so fast that I can take nice leisurely lunches.:biggrinbounce2:



Ouch.


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr

When and where is the next shootout?

Cool stuff!


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## rb_in_va

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> When and where is the next shootout?
> 
> Cool stuff!



This might be the one. Is the Great Portable Sawmill Shootout the same as the Sawlex? Looks like it's in Columbia, SC Apr 13-14, 2007.

http://www.huggercom.com/sawlex/


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## Newfie

Yup that's the one. It used to be a northeast thing, but the manufacturers thought it would be a better idea to move it around the country for more exposure.


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## Sawyer Rob

> Which one are you?



I'm the one with the "Norwood" hat,




And we was in Youngstown Oh.

Yup, the next shootout will be in S.C. in 2007.

Rob


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## bman

Wow a chainsaw milling site, I just discovered it! My contribution;
I have posted this elsewhere so I hope I don't bore any one but I purchased a big saw and Alaskans mill a year ago last January to mill some doug fir on my property for a timber frame house. I am now milling the last of the logs for the flooring as the frame is up, the roof on and ready for siding! I have milled about 8,000 bd ft thus far and the flooring will add about another 2,000 bd ft.
I went the chainsaw route so I could just mill logs where they lay not having the large equip to move them as would be required with a band mill. 
When I was cutting the 8x8 timbers I could get about $700 dollars of cut lumber a day based on what the lumber yard quoted me for 8x8x16' doug fir. Thats more than my daily earnings in my work (self employed) but when I was cutting the 1x8 roof boards the cost/value equation naturally declined. Any way as others have mentioned the different mills have their place. I have an acquaintance who has a Woodmizer and he has built a barn with stalls, a riding arena and garage with it and that includes a ton of roof boards and batt and board siding! He has all the big equip to move and load logs so its a great set up for him.
My conclusion is that the chainsaw mill set up has worked out very profitably for my project. I bought my timber frame plans from a company that also sells timber frame packages, My frame alone would have cost $38,000 and that doesn't include erecting it, just the frame timbers! 
The CSM has a definite place, My flooring will be 25' continuous planks cut from a 36" diamiter log! hard to do on a Woodmizer!


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## coveredinsap

> Wow a chainsaw milling site, I just discovered it! My contribution;
> I have posted this elsewhere so I hope I don't bore any one but I purchased a big saw and Alaskans mill a year ago last January to mill some doug fir on my property for a timber frame house. I am now milling the last of the logs for the flooring as the frame is up, the roof on and ready for siding! I have milled about 8,000 bd ft thus far and the flooring will add about another 2,000 bd ft.
> I went the chainsaw route so I could just mill logs where they lay not having the large equip to move them as would be required with a band mill.
> When I was cutting the 8x8 timbers I could get about $700 dollars of cut lumber a day based on what the lumber yard quoted me for 8x8x16' doug fir. Thats more than my daily earnings in my work (self employed) but when I was cutting the 1x8 roof boards the cost/value equation naturally declined. Any way as others have mentioned the different mills have their place. I have an acquaintance who has a Woodmizer and he has built a barn with stalls, a riding arena and garage with it and that includes a ton of roof boards and batt and board siding! He has all the big equip to move and load logs so its a great set up for him.
> My conclusion is that the chainsaw mill set up has worked out very profitably for my project. I bought my timber frame plans from a company that also sells timber frame packages, My frame alone would have cost $38,000 and that doesn't include erecting it, just the frame timbers!
> The CSM has a definite place, My flooring will be 25' continuous planks cut from a 36" diamiter log! hard to do on a Woodmizer!



Thanks for the post. Good information in there for everyone to read.



> I'm the one with the "Norwood" hat



I can't make out who you're referring to in the photo, but no matter...
Norwood appears to make the Lumbermate mills, and you're there apparently advocating the Lumbermate products judging by the photos? Are you compensated in any manner, (i.e. cash or goods) by the manufacturer for your appearance(s) there? Is that your own mill you're working there?


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## Sawyer Rob

> Norwood appears to make the Lumbermate mills, and you're there apparently advocating the Lumbermate products judging by the photos? Are you compensated in any manner, (i.e. cash or goods) by the manufacturer for your appearance(s) there? Is that your own mill you're working there?



Yes, Norwood makes the lumbermate. (along with many other products)

The photo's are of MY sawmill on MY farm, sawing MY logs, nothing more.

I do NOT work for Norwood or have anything to do with them other than own and use there products. They are a good company and they sell good a product. I HAVE been to there headquarters and met the folks there, great people...

Rob


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## WRW

I think Sawyer Rob is doctoring those pictures. Not a speck of sawdust on any of them boards.


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## carvinmark

but they sure look good!!!


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