# Advanced hydraulics dual pump splitter build diesel mower conversion



## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

To start I am wondering if I will have enough horse power to run a dual single stage pumps. One 1.5" inlet two 7/8 outputs. Each pump is rate for 20 gpm at 3500 psi at 3000 rpm. One pump for main pusher and other for 4 way and other stuff. Running a 4.5" cylinder with 3.5" shaft 30" stroke. I have the dump valve and 3/4 lines on main cylinder. To much flow to use a unloading valve with one of the pumps. With estimated efficiency of 85% for pump will it work or stall engine. 

Engine 34 hp Kubota Diesel non turbo.

I am trying to copy the Built-Rite 24 HPWS-D splitter by using a old fairway mower engine. The mower was wore out but motor still has life. 

Plan is to finish by spring with the build.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

Sam, its going to take about 45hp just to pull one section of that pump at 3500psi, so I would say if your going to run those pressures on both pumps, at the same time, you are way under powered. In real life, you most likely are not going to be pulling that kind of pressure with both pumps at the same time. About the most pressure you can build with just one pump section is about 3000psi and thats pushing the limits of you engine. Especially since even though the other section might not be making pressure, you will still have residual power drag just moving the fluid. I would think with a 4.5in cyl, your pump probably wouldnt need 3000psi to split the majority of the wood you might encounter. I suspect for the other functions, you probably wouldnt be splitting and adjusting the wedge or traveling at the same time as splitting, nor would you need 3000psi of pressure to accomplish those task. Also 20gpm is going to make that wedge adjusting cyl mighty fast. Anyways, I think your pump motor combo will work, as long as you realize your machine will split the majority of the wood you have without bogging the engine, but you might encounter a log ever now and then that you wont have the hp to process. Set your relief pressures to where it might bogg down the engine occasionally but not kill the engine and live with it, or find a bigger engine.


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## GM_Grimmy (Dec 21, 2015)

Set it at 2300 PSI and be done. Only way it won't go through is if it's a super knotty piece and you are trying to do right down the middle. Take a small piece off of it and then resplit. The efficiency of the wedge will go through 99% of what you put on the beam. I just ran mine both days this past weekend, and I think I only went to the lower stage 3 times.

Hope to see it on or before May 16th, 2016!! Keep up the good work Doug!!


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> Sam, its going to take about 45hp just to pull one section of that pump at 3500psi, so I would say if your going to run those pressures on both pumps, at the same time, you are way under powered. In real life, you most likely are not going to be pulling that kind of pressure with both pumps at the same time. About the most pressure you can build with just one pump section is about 3000psi and thats pushing the limits of you engine. Especially since even though the other section might not be making pressure, you will still have residual power drag just moving the fluid. I would think with a 4.5in cyl, your pump probably wouldnt need 3000psi to split the majority of the wood you might encounter. I suspect for the other functions, you probably wouldnt be splitting and adjusting the wedge or traveling at the same time as splitting, nor would you need 3000psi of pressure to accomplish those task. Also 20gpm is going to make that wedge adjusting cyl mighty fast. Anyways, I think your pump motor combo will work, as long as you realize your machine will split the majority of the wood you have without bogging the engine, but you might encounter a log ever now and then that you wont have the hp to process. Set your relief pressures to where it might bogg down the engine occasionally but not kill the engine and live with it, or find a bigger engine.




Thanks for the input. From my calculation I was thinking it should handle most of the splitting. I have bigger TM pro skid steer splitters for difficult looking pieces. But I have gotten what looks like easy 14" elm and turned out to be the worst stuff ever. Knots in the middle with lots of twisting grains.



GM_Grimmy said:


> Set it at 2300 PSI and be done. Only way it won't go through is if it's a super knotty piece and you are trying to do right down the middle. Take a small piece off of it and then resplit. The efficiency of the wedge will go through 99% of what you put on the beam. I just ran mine both days this past weekend, and I think I only went to the lower stage 3 times.
> 
> Hope to see it on or before May 16th, 2016!! Keep up the good work Doug!!



Plan is Iowa spring GTG for testing.


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## Del_ (Dec 21, 2015)

I bet a double stage 28gpm pump would work way better.

To power other accessories I think it would be neat to have a complete second hydraulic system......like an automotive power steering pump driven by a fan belt......and use the main hydraulic tank. It sure seems better than flow dividers/reducers, etc. for low volumes. Just a thought.


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

Del_ said:


> I bet a double stage 28gpm pump would work way better.
> 
> To power other accessories I think it would be neat to have a complete second hydraulic system......like an automotive power steering pump driven by a fan belt......and use the main hydraulic tank. It sure seems better than flow dividers/reducers, etc. for low volumes. Just a thought.



Good idea using a power steering pump for extras. I got a good deal on this pump so if it doesn't work out I will try another setup. Just doing the math before I put it all together. 

Engineers like to doing the math first. I just don't know much of the hydraulic math yet. Do more of the electrical and chemical side of things.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

Del, a 28gpm two stage pump would certainly work and lower hp requirement, but I bet it would have a slower cycle time than the 20gpm single stage pump in hard to split stuff. In anything taking 900psi or less to split, the 28gpm 2stage pump would shine, but if the wood is the least bit tuff to split, I think the single stage pump will out perform as far as speed. Grimmy has the right ideal, I know I was splitting very notty, large dia, whiteoak 4 ways with my 4in bore splitter and it would work a team of mules to death keeping it fed. I had a 14gpm single stage pump on that machine and a 25hp kholer gas engine. 

Like you, I think he might have a little to much flow for the other circuits.


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

I was thinking of trying a priority flow divider on second pump. 9 gpm supply and rest is dumped to cooler filter then tank. *9-4158-9 at surplus center*


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## Del_ (Dec 21, 2015)

Mudd, I've been running a 28gpm two stage for a little over 25 years now on an 18hp Briggs IC and a 5inch cylinder. It's works out pretty good and stays in high gear almost all of the time. My splitter uses a dual locking valve and I've rigged up an auto return function that has worked well now for the past two years. It's great to put a piece on and go get the next. Auto return rocks. Forward locking of course is something to be very careful with but for 25 years now no pinches.....knock on wood!

I've not seen a thing you've posted that I'd take issue with.


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## Del_ (Dec 21, 2015)

sam-tip said:


> I was thinking of trying a priority flow divider on second pump. 9 gpm supply and rest is dumped to cooler filter then tank. *9-4158-9 at surplus center*



Doesn't a flow divider load the engine at all times....even when the circuit is not doing any work?


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

sam-tip said:


> Good idea using a power steering pump for extras. I got a good deal on this pump so if it doesn't work out I will try another setup. Just doing the math before I put it all together.
> 
> Engineers like to doing the math first. I just don't know much of the hydraulic math yet. Do more of the electrical and chemical side of things.


 Well, you have your pump and with proper valveing, it would make a heck of a splitter pump. I think I would try to find out the hyd requirements of your drive system and match the accessory hyd circuits to those specs. A log lift and wedge lift wont take much pressure or flow. I used to have, and might still do somewhere, a front drive plate for a kubota engine. It bolts to the front crankshaft. If you could get a small pump with reverse rotation to pull the drive system, I'll donate the pump adapter and you can make a separate hyd system just for the little pump. Just thinking it might be cheaper to do a little pump swapping than trying to control flows on the double pump. Just something for you to think about. I'll look for the adapter when I head back to the shop.


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Doesn't a flow divider load the engine at all times....even when the circuit is not doing any work?



Don't know how it works. It is a flow regular of some type. I think it would not load the system to much. I was guessing 9 gpm would be slow enough for 4 way and other stuff.

From Surplus Center website.

*FIXED FLOW PRIORITY DIVIDER WITH PRIORITY PRESSURE RELIEF*
Brand new Prince model RD-405R-9 fixed flow priority divider valve. Use to split pump output into a fixed, priority flow and a balance flow for use in the primary hydraulic circuit. Pressure relief valve on the priority port is factory preset to 1,500 PSI.

*SPECIFICATIONS*

9 GPM fixed priority flow
Adj. relief valve set to 1,500 PSI
30 GPM Max. input flow
3,000 PSI Max.
3/4" NPT inlet & excess flow ports
1/2" NPT priority port
3/8" NPT relief port
Overall size 4-3/4" x 4-1/8" x 1-3/4"
Shpg. 9 lbs.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

Lets look at how your going to need to plumb that priority control valve. It is pressure compensated so flow should remain constant reqardless of pressure requirements of secondary circuit. You will need a line in, two lines out, (one for priority and one for secondary flow) as well as a return line for any flows over the relief, and you have a ton of flow dumping to tank thru the secondary circuit. Lots of plumbing=$$$. The valve itself is expensive and your wasting a lot of power with the secondary oil flows. Will it work, yes, but probably not the best combination of parts.


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

I overlooked all the plumbing for the flow valve. Great. I have already been to Surplus Center three times. FYI it's not far off the Interstate. I get near there for work a few times a year.

Wondering if I should be looking for a hydraulic machine to make hoses. Ouch.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

Found the kubota front pump drive if you decide you need it. Flange looks to be about 6in dia with a 5 hole bolt pattern. Shaft size I am pretty sure is 1 7/16". PM me if you want it.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 21, 2015)

I'd have to pull out my books, but I believe the pump on my processor's splitter is about 30gpm and my 35hp Kubota handles it fine. Relief set to 3000psi.

It's a stack of Permco pumps, similar to the pics.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

Valley, is that a combined flow of 30gpm, if it is, its a smaller pump than the op has. His would be 40gpm combined flow.


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I'd have to pull out my books, but I believe the pump on my processor's splitter is about 30gpm and my 35hp Kubota handles it fine. Relief set to 3000psi.
> 
> It's a stack of Permco pumps, similar to the pics.





If you take picture of the part number on the pump I can figure out the ratings of each stage.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

sam-tip said:


> If you take picture of the part number on the pump I can figure out the ratings of each stage.


 I could use that information (code book)if you could send it to me


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> Found the kubota front pump drive if you decide you need it. Flange looks to be about 6in dia with a 5 hole bolt pattern. Shaft size I am pretty sure is 1 7/16". PM me if you want it.



I don't have room to mount it to the front. My cooler and radiator sits in front. Plus the alternator belt and pulley.


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## olyman (Dec 21, 2015)

sam-tip said:


> Good idea using a power steering pump for extras. I got a good deal on this pump so if it doesn't work out I will try another setup. Just doing the math before I put it all together.
> 
> Engineers like to doing the math first. I just don't know much of the hydraulic math yet. Do more of the electrical and chemical side of things.


  power steering pumps,,, normally!! max out at 1100 psi,,and they aint volumn pumps...


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## sam-tip (Dec 21, 2015)

It will have power steering. Need something small to run the steering .


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 21, 2015)

No, just the pump section for the splitter is 30gpm.

My pump is 3 sections total. P124L085AHZA20-54JNZA05-1TFZA05-1. The splitter section is the A20. I believe one of the A05s is for the saw motor and the other one runs the conveyor, trough, and wedge, though I'm not 100% on that.

The original section for the splitter was a A15 and I put the A20 on which is the largest in that frame size of pumps I guess. The cycle time for the splitter was about 7.5 seconds which I found to be too slow, it's now about 5 seconds.

I talked with Dave Groff at Permco and he was able to walk me through everything as I had no idea what all the codes meant. I believe he recomended 40ish hp, but I've been fine. Generally when splitting I might hit 1000-1500psi when it first splits for a second or so and then it drops right now. If I hit the relief it bogs the motor down, but it's not enough to stall it.



muddstopper said:


> Valley, is that a combined flow of 30gpm, if it is, its a smaller pump than the op has. His would be 40gpm combined flow.


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## muddstopper (Dec 21, 2015)

If your not hitting full relief pressures, I can believe your motor will pull that size pump. Not really needing full pressure most of the time is why I first suggested just setting the pressure to where it could bogg the engine without killing it and live with it. Most times my 28gpm two stage never kicks in high pressure low flow stage either and I am splitting 6ways per pass. Heck, I dont even know what my splitter pressure is set at as I've never put a gauge on it. I'm pretty sure it isnt maxing out the pump.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 21, 2015)

Yeah I use to have a gauge on mine until one day the guts decided to break open and it blew apart shooting oil everywhere. I never bother to buy another. I still have gauges on the other 2 valve banks and the cylinder for the saw bar but I don't have any reason to look at them normally. Before I fixed the shafts on the conveyor I would keep on eye on that gauge, if it got around 500psi it was because it was binding up.


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## Del_ (Dec 22, 2015)

I have a tee on the back end of the ram that is plugged where a gauge can be installed. I leave it plugged except for pressure setting. I'm set at 2,250.


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## muddstopper (Dec 22, 2015)

With the 4in and up size cyl, all those tonnage numbers are just that, numbers. When you start doing multiple way splits the numbers do start to become a little more important, but a lot of wood is split using little cyl, little pumps, and little engines. It simply dont take 29tons of force to split firewood. I'll admit its nice to have all that power when you really need it, but really, how often do you really need it?


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## sam-tip (Dec 22, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> No, just the pump section for the splitter is 30gpm.
> 
> My pump is 3 sections total. P124L085AHZA20-54JNZA05-1TFZA05-1. The splitter section is the A20. I believe one of the A05s is for the saw motor and the other one runs the conveyor, trough, and wedge, though I'm not 100% on that.
> 
> ...



I have attached flyer and cook book for the permco 124 series pump.

Your pump
P pump
124 series
L extended studs
085 CW rotation SAE B 2 Bolt 13 spline shaft
AH Port end covers multiple
ZA20 first pump gear size 2 inches
54 drive shaft
JN fitting size and location
ZA05 second pump 1/2 inch size
1TF Fitting size and location
ZA05 third pump 1/2 inch size

The ZA20 can do 32 gpm at 2500 psi @3000 rpm
The ZA15 can do 23.5 gpm at 3300 psi @ 3000 rpm
The ZA05 can do 7.5 gpm at 3500 psi @3000 rpm

ValleyFirewood how many rpms do you run your processor?


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## olympyk_999 (Dec 22, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> but really, how often do you really need it?


dumb question... that's like asking how often do I really need 27 chainsaws to cut 1 tree down...the answer is always, always!


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## nstueve (Dec 22, 2015)

I'm still waiting to hear what Doug is going to call this animal...


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## sam-tip (Dec 22, 2015)

nstueve said:


> I'm still waiting to hear what Doug is going to call this animal...




I did get the 12" Husqvarna stickers! Have not put them on yet. Haven't done any real work on it in a few weeks. All planning.

Should call it an oily mess or it could be a POS. Taking the mower apart was messy. Pig Mats do soak up lots of oil. Good stuff.


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## muddstopper (Dec 22, 2015)

You know your fixing to make a mess when you take the kids swimming pool to catch the oil in


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## sam-tip (Dec 22, 2015)

Pool worked great when changing to high flow Aux pump in the Bobcat. Fit perfectly under the entire Bobcat. Been thinking if ValleyFirewood was able to change out one of his pumps in the stack I might see about changing one of my pumps. Googled the part numbers and found them from $50 to $70 shipped. Might become a Frankenstein pump. Need to sit down and come up with an ideal flow setup for a pump at 34 hp. Auto cycle valve can handle 25 gpm which would max the dump valve out at 65 gpm on return.


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## Homelite410 (Dec 22, 2015)

Hi Doug!


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## sam-tip (Dec 22, 2015)

Good evening Mike!


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## muddstopper (Dec 22, 2015)

sam-tip said:


> Pool worked great when changing to high flow Aux pump in the Bobcat. Fit perfectly under the entire Bobcat. Been thinking if ValleyFirewood was able to change out one of his pumps in the stack I might see about changing one of my pumps. Googled the part numbers and found them from $50 to $70 shipped. Might become a Frankenstein pump. Need to sit down and come up with an ideal flow setup for a pump at 34 hp. Auto cycle valve can handle 25 gpm which would max the dump valve out at 65 gpm on return.


 I would match my splitter section to the 34hp engine, which in my opinion your pretty close to there already. None of the other functions will be working anyways while your splitting, nor do they need the flow or hp to do their jobs. If a smaller section is available for $50-$70, sounds like that might be the best path to take. Cheaper than buying diverter valves and associated plumbing.


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## sam-tip (Dec 28, 2015)

Snowing today. So I got some time in the shop.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 28, 2015)

2900rpm is what my Kubota runs at.

The pump section was around $175 with shipping. That was pump section, gears, brass end plates, and 4 rods. Oh, and shipping to Alaska.
Pretty darn cheap.


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## SteveSS (Dec 28, 2015)

sam-tip, this is the coolest splitter build thread in a while. Can't wait to see the finished product. Is there a chance that it will be moveable under it's own power when finished? If you have any intention of bringing to charity cuts / GTG's, will you tow it? What tires will you change to? I wish I had the skill set to do something like this.


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## cantoo (Dec 28, 2015)

Sam, I usually never even bother trying to catch the oil doing something like this. I start out by dumping a bag of oil sorb under and on everything, I'm going to do that at some point anyway so might as well get it over with. Otherwise you just track it everywhere. Nice build, hard to find time isn't it?


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## Homelite410 (Dec 28, 2015)

OK fellas, his name is Doug. 

Sam and tip were pets.


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## GM_Grimmy (Dec 28, 2015)

Homelite410 said:


> OK fellas, his name is Doug.
> 
> Sam and tip were pets.


Hush Homelite410!


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## sam-tip (Dec 29, 2015)

Homelite410 said:


> OK fellas, his name is Doug.
> 
> Sam and tip were pets.



For some reason that cracked me up! LOL.

I will trailer it to GTG and Charity Cuts. I will drive it around under its own power off road. 

I did narrow the front axel by 16 inches to make it easier to load on a trailer. To get the mower home I had to take the fenders off the trailer and drive over the trailer tires. The mowing width was something like 9 ft wide. 

Finding the free time to work on this project is difficult at times. I have the week off and hope to get a few days to work on the splitter.

Now laying out the steel for the work table.


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## sam-tip (Jan 10, 2016)

Update of progress. Log rack.


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## sam-tip (Jan 13, 2016)

Got the last tube tacked tonight.


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## SteveSS (Jan 13, 2016)

I wanna split some wood on this one at the next charity/GTG.


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## JeffGu (Jan 13, 2016)

That thing looks like it's going to be a work of art when it's finished. Very nice!


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## muddstopper (Jan 15, 2016)

Just where and when is this GTG your going to demo that machine at. I might have to plan a week vacation just to see this thing work


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## sam-tip (Jan 15, 2016)

Iowa Spring GTG on April 30th near Chelsea Iowa. The Iowa Charity Cut will be May 14th at my house outside of Waukee Iowa. Pushing to have splitter done for the events. Taking my time to get it right. AE Metal works set the standard pretty high with the wedges and beam work.

Last year at the Iowa Charity Cut we had 38 volunteers working hard to cut and splitting firewood. The wood is given away to people needing help with heating. Facebook "Firewood Helper Waukee" for more info.

The Iowa Spring GTG has more poeple but more for chainsaw/wood fun.


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## muddstopper (Jan 15, 2016)

Google says its about 900 miles, 4day round trip, doubt my wife will go along with that. LOL


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## GM_Grimmy (Jan 15, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Last year at the Iowa Charity Cut we had 38 volunteers working hard to cut and splitting firewood. The wood is given away to people needing help with heating. Facebook "Firewood Helper Waukee" for more info.


And we did what, 50 cord in a day that day. It was an awesome day, that's for sure. Can't wait till the next one! I'll have my splitter down there for sure, to help keep those running a saw busy!


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## sam-tip (Feb 14, 2016)

Update. Got some work done on the boom yesterday. We decided to try Diamond Vogel epoxy paint. Orange black and grey for colors.

Got most of the hydraulic hose order in. Forgot to order some 1/4" hoses. Lots of 3/4" hose.


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## muddstopper (Feb 14, 2016)

Been waiting for a update, Looks good and I like the boom. A big splitter with no way to get big rounds on it is useless in my opinion. Is that a winch laying on top of the tire.


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## GM_Grimmy (Feb 14, 2016)

Looking good Doug!!


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## sam-tip (Feb 14, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> Been waiting for a update, Looks good and I like the boom. A big splitter with no way to get big rounds on it is useless in my opinion. Is that a winch laying on top of the tire.




Yes a hydraulic winch. The tong are for show at the moment. Will add a pulley to the end and then attach to the modified tong. The blue tongs are to small for big wood.


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## sam-tip (Feb 14, 2016)

Will need to do some engineering on the winch mount and control. If electric winch it would be easy to make wireless remote control for winch but electric is slow. Will need to use a valve block from the mower for steering and deck raise lower. Then attach a wireless remote to the valve assemble.

Little stumped at the moment on hydraulic jack for a front stabilizer. Want it compact but it must have a good reach.


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## muddstopper (Feb 14, 2016)

With a hydraulic winch, I would use a electric solenoid valve and make a remote for it. If you use a d03 subplate for two solenoid valves, you can hook the boom lift from the same valve. Here are the CC valves, and subplate to work with your variable pump, http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...12-VDC-10-GPM-CC-DA-SOLENOID-VALVE-9-6138.axd and the CC subplate, http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...STATION-DO3-PARALLEL-CC-SUBPLATE-9-4070-2.axd Might be a little pricey at about $300 for a complete setup but worth every penny for ease of installation and function


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## sam-tip (Feb 14, 2016)

Already have surplus mower parts


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## muddstopper (Feb 14, 2016)

I would give one of those facebook thumbs up, but this will have to do


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## sam-tip (Feb 22, 2016)

Was thinking I should slow down the return stroke of the large shaft cylinder. From looking at the flow of auto cycle valve I could put a check valve and flow divider on the D port of the auto cycle valve. 2.? Seconds is pretty fast for 30 inch stroke. Plus slow down the amount of oil going to the dump valve.

Seems backwards wanting to slow the splitter down.


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## sam-tip (Feb 22, 2016)

Winch mount made.


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## GM_Grimmy (Feb 22, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Was thinking I should slow down the return stroke of the large shaft cylinder. From looking at the flow of auto cycle valve I could put a check valve and flow divider on the D port of the auto cycle valve. 2.? Seconds is pretty fast for 30 inch stroke. Plus slow down the amount of oil going to the dump valve.
> 
> Seems backwards wanting to slow the splitter down.


Was that a calculated 2 second return stroke? I only ask, as everything I've calculated was always a tad slower in actuality. My return stroke was to be 2 seconds.....but I think I know a couple factors in why it's a little slower. I do like the quickness of mine, it's out of the way so I can grab the next piece off the log lift. Might be different in your operation. A quick return might even make the auto valve seem like you don't need it, since it will return very quickly. Just saying. Can't wait to see it done or a test run!


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## sam-tip (Feb 22, 2016)

2.4 sec return calculated. Moving with compressed air for testing is fast. 12.3 inches per second calculated. Would like to be 9 to 10 inches per second. Cheaper to just use a flow restrictor but more heat.


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## GM_Grimmy (Feb 22, 2016)

Mine is 1.91 calculated on the retract. I think the port diameter on the cylinder is a big limiting factor. Granted is slower than 1.91 seconds, but I like the quick return.


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## olyman (Feb 24, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Was thinking I should slow down the return stroke of the large shaft cylinder. From looking at the flow of auto cycle valve I could put a check valve and flow divider on the D port of the auto cycle valve. 2.? Seconds is pretty fast for 30 inch stroke. Plus slow down the amount of oil going to the dump valve.
> 
> Seems backwards wanting to slow the splitter down.


 not necessarily....depends on the splitter....


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## sweepleader (Feb 24, 2016)

Lurking.


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## sam-tip (Mar 3, 2016)

My hydraulic plan

Edit I forgot to show the oil cooler After filter and before the tank.


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## GM_Grimmy (Mar 3, 2016)

My cooler is before my filter, otherwise the filter gauge would show there's high pressure on it. The cooler will restrict flow, but that's how they are suppose to work, so they can cool the oil. Just to save you some headache later on.


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## sam-tip (Mar 3, 2016)

Thinking I will only run one pump through the cooler. The other system will go to tank after filter. I did get some test ports to test the pressure at different locations. For temperature I will use a Fluke IR temp meter with picture display. Now working on fabrication the front jack, operator driving chair, valve mounts, and instrument panel. Then off to paint then assembly and hose making. Hoping to work on wiring while parts are gone for painting.


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## GM_Grimmy (Mar 3, 2016)

One pump should be good enough through the cooler, as both pumps are pulling from the same tank. What are you getting or using for a cooler?


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## sam-tip (Mar 3, 2016)

Oil cooler from mower. Should handle 30 to 40 gpm. Uses radiator fan to pull air through cooler. There is a pre screen on the hood.


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## GM_Grimmy (Mar 3, 2016)

Ahhh ok. So you are cooling whether you need to or not. Might be worth trying to put in a bypass with some valves controlled by a temperature controller. It'd let your oil get warmed up and such. Particularly in cold weather.


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## cantoo (Mar 3, 2016)

Dang, sam-tip, I have a parts mower sitting on my fence line and never even thought of using the cooler on it. I've robbed everything else off it and was going to scrap it.
Thanks for the reminder.


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## Timbercreek (Mar 3, 2016)

Just my 2 cents here, but winch needs to be on the crane. Either the backside of main pole for clearance, or top of upper boom if you dont care.
Down by the tire it will affect your swivel, and believe me u swivel it alot.
Just put a gantry crane on mine. 
Find u dont use the boom angle piston, its dangerously fast, u set it for reach, and use the winch.
So cool, let some cable out, set tongs on a piece, drag it over and up, set it down, half it, hook tongs to one half, hang it off the side, work the other half, then lower second and split it.
Remote control would be sweet, but one more thing to loose or break.


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## muddstopper (Mar 4, 2016)

I dont know the intended use of the winch so I wont comment on that. My crane has a fixed mounted jib. No cyl to raise or lower. The winch is mounted on top of the crane so when the booms turns, the winch turns with it. I made A 20ft extention cord for the winch controls. Since I like to pull the splitter up next to the wood being split, I can usually reach anything I need to.


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## sam-tip (Mar 4, 2016)

Timbercreek said:


> Down by the tire it will affect your swivel, and believe me u swivel it alot.



I thought the same thing about the swivel. But I did not like the look of putting the winch on top and no room behind. What you can not see is the second pulley to help the swivel. The boom is at the paint shop so I had to draw it on paper.

The raise cylinder is for lowering the boom so I may put the splitter in an enclosed trailer for travel to Charity Cuts and GTG's


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## muddstopper (Mar 4, 2016)

Not sure I like the setup the way it is drawn. It would seem to me that if the winch is mounted someplace other than the boom, that if you try to swing the boom, then the winch cable would interfer. Also, the way it is drawn, if you try to raise the boom with the cyl, it will also be pulling against the winch and result in both the boom raising and the cable being retracted at the same time. I must be missing something in how the winch is actually setup. Just looking at this the way it is drawn, and keeping the winch mounted other than on the boom, I think I would make it so the winch cable actually traveled up the side of the mast and then out the jib. This would double as a centering device as when winching a log, the boom would naturally tend to swing in the direction of the log. Once the log is lifted off the ground, then the tension on the cable would swing the round toward center and onto the log table. Even with this method, making 180degree swings from center would be difficult as the winch cable would always be in the way. 90 degree swings from center would probably be ok. And now that i think about it, even with my boom mounted winch, 360 degree swings arent possible because of the battery cables. I might get 180 degrees in either direction, but cant think of a single time I have needed to swing the boom that far.


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## sam-tip (Mar 4, 2016)

Using winch rope. No cable. Rope is easy to carry. Can't run rope through the mast. Once the boom is up it will stay up. Let the winch do the lifting. This is all in theory. Will have to mod once field tested.


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## muddstopper (Mar 4, 2016)

I cant visualize it in my head. I'll wait for more pics.


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## Timbercreek (Mar 4, 2016)

Thats the problem with current setup, its going to self align the pulley with winch...possibly hitting the operator. 
Mine swings on its own if the ground isnt level. A fairly level site is preferable.
Im just saying when you have a load hanging, the line is going to fight u, swinging it to the table.
Also your pulley arrangement is going to be cumbersome. With this style gantry it is preferable to swing the boom with the cable, your dangling pulley setup is going to resist that. My pulleys r welded to top of boom.
Im not trying to be a know it all, me and my.buddy have similar setups and just letting you know how it seems to work out in actual use.


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## Timbercreek (Mar 4, 2016)

And as far as the boom angle, its handy to have, my buddy has it but says u dont need it. So i simplified and bought the harbour freight 140 truck crane, which uses a bottle jack style piston.
Hydraulic adjustable without the plumbing!!!!
Tried there.manual.boat winch, and it works, but reversing winch is a pain.
If u only did a couple big blocks its fine, but i had a whole days worth and i was wooped after a hour.
Built my own hydraulic winch.


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## muddstopper (Mar 4, 2016)

I really only have one problem with my crane. If the wood is being pulled from the bac end of of the splitter, the round just sort of slide across the ground until it reaches the wheels and axle. Then I have to pull it around the wheel. The wood pretty much stays on the ground until its right beside the splitting table. My boom is mounted beside the splitting cyl on the opposite side from operator and towards the rear of the splitter. It works better if your on the same side of splitter as the boom, but my controls are not centered above the beam for one sided operation. Not a big deal, the boom was a after thought after the splitter was built. A do over would have a few changes made.


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## sam-tip (Mar 8, 2016)

Painting the boom.


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## sam-tip (Mar 8, 2016)

Thinking about the winch and boom. I need to add limiters to the swing of the boom. So the boom only works to the front and side of the splitter. It was not my intent to use the winch to pull from the rear of the splitter. So swing limiters will prevent the boom from doing something it was not designed to do.


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## dancan (Mar 8, 2016)

Great build so far ,thanks for taking the time to share !


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## sam-tip (Mar 11, 2016)

Picked up some painted parts and took beam to get painted.


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## nstueve (Mar 13, 2016)

Doug, 
You going to make the boom cylinders hydraulically controlled by your pumps too?

Also you going to need a suitcase weight bracket on the back? One of the pics makes the ram look like it sticks out quite far from the mower frame. Plus BIG logs to weigh the front down. Just curiosity... 

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106] looks great!


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## sam-tip (Mar 13, 2016)

Yes boom has a hydro valve.
Will have stabilizer jack with hydro valve.
Plus will need weights.
Two for auto cycle
One for 4 way wedge
One for boom
One for stabilizer 
One for driving 
Steering wheel
And remote for hydraulic winch.


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## GM_Grimmy (Mar 13, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Yes boom has a hydro valve.
> Will have stabilizer jack with hydro valve.
> Plus will need weights.
> Two for auto cycle
> ...



One for the awning.
One for the fridge.
One for the recliner.

Don't forget those! haha


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## sam-tip (Mar 15, 2016)

More parts ready for black paint.


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## sam-tip (Mar 15, 2016)

Think the orange parts are done but no pictures yet


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## sam-tip (Mar 18, 2016)

Last batch of parts ready for paint. Will pick them up Sunday


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## sam-tip (Mar 19, 2016)

4 coats of epoxy paint. Safety Orange.


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## sam-tip (Mar 20, 2016)

Making counter balance weights from 7/8" plate steel.


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## nstueve (Mar 20, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Making counter balance weights from 7/8" plate steel.


And here I was kinda waiting to see a rear bracket for some big suitcase weights! LoL! I shoulda known Doug would figure out something cooler...


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## sam-tip (Mar 24, 2016)

Bumper / counter balance weights. Had to use transmission jack to the them on.


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## sam-tip (Mar 24, 2016)

Test fit for stabilizer jack in the front. Waiting for cylinder to arrive.


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## sam-tip (Mar 24, 2016)

Bonus. Log/rounds staging table. Table to put rounds on next to supersplit. Adjustable height and legs remove for transport.

Also made a nice welding table until it got painted.


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## olyman (Mar 25, 2016)

so,, will this work of art,, be at the gtg??? koooool........


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## sam-tip (Mar 25, 2016)

Yes. But if completely finished I don't know. Trying to be done. Want to be done. Working on punch list of things to finish. Just matter of time. Afraid I might be making hoses at the Iowa GTG.


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## sam-tip (Mar 29, 2016)

Cylinder came in yesterday.












Locating instruments.


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## nstueve (Apr 1, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Yes. But if completely finished I don't know. Trying to be done. Want to be done. Working on punch list of things to finish. Just matter of time. Afraid I might be making hoses at the Iowa GTG.


If I know Doug this will likely be one of those 2-3 year projects. Doug can get pretty busy with work and be away from shop during week making it hard to find time. I'm amazed at all the work he's got done already! You also have to consider the fact that Doug likes to tinker with things... So I'm sure there will be some v2.0-v3.0 etc where he'll make some changes to make it even better! 

Doug, any changes to the flow of the wood deck and lay out this year for the cut?

Also I'm getting pumped to see this bad boy in action!!! It does need a name so when it gets a reputation people can refer to is as project... "Iron-wood" or "Hydro-Monster"??? Or keep it simple and call it project "Overkill"...


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## sam-tip (Apr 1, 2016)

nstueve said:


> Doug, any changes to the flow of the wood deck and lay out this year for the cut?



Some changes I think. Nate said we need to be efficient to beat last year. Plus depends on wind direction. Wondering if we can be faster loading the log racks with the mini's and not the excavator. Thinking of making a third bucking stand for the other side or other trailer(Nates). Plus start a thread on bucking stands. Had several PM requests on bucking stand info.

I would really like to make the Kewanee elevator a belt conveyor but must finish the splitter. Few more things to fabricate on splitter. Jack, steering, gauges, valve mount and seat. All half done or started. Been to tired from work to think straight so I have not worked on the splitter for a few days. Want my mind clear when designing the last few parts. But I have a plan of what I want.

But spring is here and the yard will need mowed soon.


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## GM_Grimmy (Apr 1, 2016)

I will have my hydro there to chew through some wood! Just need to keep feeding it and keep it moving.......as well as filled with gas...it's a thirsty one!! So you can try to find a good spot for it, something to think about.


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## sam-tip (Apr 1, 2016)

Off subject but I think this is the best thing ever. Nate had one like this so I had to copy it. Just epoxy a magnet to your tape measure and then it can stick on any metal object.


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## nstueve (Apr 1, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Some changes I think. Nate said we need to be efficient to beat last year. Plus depends on wind direction. Wondering if we can be faster loading the log racks with the mini's and not the excavator. Thinking of making a third bucking stand for the other side or other trailer(Nates). Plus start a thread on bucking stands. Had several PM requests on bucking stand info.
> 
> I would really like to make the Kewanee elevator a belt conveyor but must finish the splitter. Few more things to fabricate on splitter. Jack, steering, gauges, valve mount and seat. All half done or started. Been to tired from work to think straight so I have not worked on the splitter for a few days. Want my mind clear when designing the last few parts. But I have a plan of what I want.
> 
> But spring is here and the yard will need mowed soon.


I think you are 100% correct that the mini's can load easier in the small loading area we have. I'll be bringing a guy or two with me for extra muscle to run the splitters. Perhaps I could spend a couple afternoon/eventings running the mini's with you to sort the log stacks by size so we have the little stuff by the little splitters, medium stuff by the big hydros, and huge stuff near your TM. I'm 90% sure I could keep 3 racks loaded with 1 mini as long as I don't have people walking around me and slowing down the loading. Also we need to remember that the back-up was having fresh muscle to keep the splitters running. There were always logs on the trailers for the splitters even if the bucking stands were empty for a min or two. Then again that will run faster with 2-4 decent sized hydros. Also we could probably place some of the wood bunks near a splitter or two to help pre-stack some wood for you. Stacking 50cord has to be exhausting!

My shoulder is good enough now to run machinery. I can probably even help do a little grinding/cutting on the splitter parts too. Just let me know what and when you need me for any prep work!

Main thing is *getting more people* to come help. I know there are many hard core people that run all day long, but I know many were gassed by 1-2pm. "Many hands makes light work!"


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## GM_Grimmy (Apr 1, 2016)

nstueve said:


> I know there are many hard core people that run all day long, but I know many were gassed by 1-2pm. "Many hands makes light work!"


More breaks!!  I'll take some non union negotiated ones too! haha


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## sam-tip (Apr 1, 2016)

nstueve said:


> Stacking 50cord has to be exhausting!



And time consuming. Plus my shoulder is feeling the results of stacking 50 cord plus my 30 cord last year. Plus age and a 10 year old bicycle injury didn't help my shoulder.

We will have some more room to work. I thinned out the overgrown oak trees last fall and ready to thin them some more if needed.

I have been trying to sort the logs by size. But a few bigger logs have sneaked into the main pile.


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Apr 1, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Cylinder came in yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



looking good! nice fab work, welding... design and execution! really like the panel...


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Apr 1, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Oil cooler from mower. Should handle 30 to 40 gpm. Uses radiator fan to pull air through cooler. There is a pre screen on the hood.



_I like that cooler!_ in my 'had it for almost forever' '83 chevy van... when I redid the riveted together stock converter's fins and rebuilt the trans after the converter failed... siiing siiingg.... (had rebuilt) I wanted to include a HD trans oil cooler... too pricey aftermarket... so I routed the in radiator cooling thru the air-conditioning condensor. had to 'revalve' it to slow rate of flow for upping cooling effectiveness. works like a charm...


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## nstueve (Apr 1, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> And time consuming. Plus my shoulder is feeling the results of stacking 50 cord plus my 30 cord last year. Plus age and a 10 year old bicycle injury didn't help my shoulder.
> 
> We will have some more room to work. I thinned out the overgrown oak trees last fall and ready to thin them some more if needed.
> 
> I have been trying to sort the logs by size. But a few bigger logs have sneaked into the main pile.


I think dropping some of the big wood pallets right in front of the large hydros would work good. Once they are full you can swap the rack out or they can switch momentarily to putting it back in the conveyor. Why not have people splitting spend the extra second to stack strait to your pallets/racks? It's not anymore work than putting it in the conveyor really... The bigger racks on the large hydros lend themselves to having a person stand on the end, grab the splits, and stack in rack/pallet.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 1, 2016)

When is this event, and where the hell is Iowa?


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## GM_Grimmy (Apr 1, 2016)

Sandhill Crane said:


> When is this event, and where the hell is Iowa?


May 14, 2016. 

For location:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5789652,-93.8394456,402m/data=!3m1!1e3

The actual address is in this thread some where, but that link will get you within spitting distance.


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## sam-tip (Apr 3, 2016)

Getting closer. Things are fitting tight because of thickness of paint.


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## sam-tip (Apr 3, 2016)

Maybe more will get done today. The weights made a big difference in balance. Before a big cup of coffee could tip the splitter.


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## SteveSS (Apr 3, 2016)

Looking great, Doug.


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## nstueve (Apr 3, 2016)

Ooo baby! Can't wait to see this kill some logs!!!

Doug, probably makes zero difference but just saw the gauge plate... Um would it be easier to view gauges if it was tilted back 20*? Can't really tell since I'm not standing right next to it... It looks awesome! Did you color match the Jacobson orange paint?


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## sam-tip (Apr 3, 2016)

No repainted the hood. It took six coats of paint to cover the hood so you could not see the Jacobsen name.


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## sam-tip (Apr 10, 2016)

Next step hoses.


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## sam-tip (Apr 19, 2016)

Have to delay the finish of the build for a few weeks. My dad decided to have a farm equipment household auction with only two weeks notice. Busy getting ready for auction.

Did get dump valve and flow dividers mounted. Just need to make hoses.












Opps turned the valves the wrong way.


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## sam-tip (May 8, 2016)

Still more hoses to install.


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## Woodyjiw (May 9, 2016)

Wow, this is a very sweet splitter!!!


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## nvr-enuf (May 9, 2016)

Sam - I didn't have time to read the thread, but will suggest an idea since you have a tandem pump (kind of like my project).

What you can do is run one pump to your low flow functions including one section for your ram at the 3250 psi then your second pump gets fed to a mid inlet combiner which then feeds another ram section but this one will need to be set at 2000 psi but it has the full flow of both pumps 

You might already be into deep to use this idea but it gives you the best of both worlds - low flow and High psi as well as high flow and low psi


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## sam-tip (May 9, 2016)

Yes in deep now and a deadline of a few days. Waiting for UPS to show up with more hydraulic fittings. 

What is a mid inlet combiner?


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## Red Amor (May 10, 2016)

G'day Gents
I have the opportunity to obtain a fair way mower cheaply and am considering building a processor just like this one 
I've the skills to build just not the brains to nut it out
would it be to inconvenient to seek even more help and advise than is already offered here 
I've hand split for many years to provide wood for up to three family house holds but having just last week suffered my third heart attack and had a pacemaker fitted thought it time to try to make life a tad easier as I sometimes have to sell a bit of wood to try and make ends meet 
I'm almost 60 and have to admit I'm struggling a bit but I'm not lying down to die stuff that yeah :O)


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## nvr-enuf (May 10, 2016)

Sam - the mid inlet allows you to have the upstream sectional valves with only the flow of the one pump and the down stream sections will be pump 1 and 2. 

I have a tandem 16 gpm pump with 25 hp engine. 

My log lift, adjustable wedge lift, and high pressure ram control will be supplied by 16 gpm, then followed by my mid inlet in which I bring in the second 16 gpm pump to feed another ram section valve. 

If I want fast ram speed, I'll use the 32 gpm section but this is limited to a lower pressure due to hp limitations. If I need high splitting force, I use the 16 gpm ram control valve which is set at a higher pressure 

Hope that explains how a mid inlet combiner works


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## sam-tip (May 10, 2016)

Getting closer.






















Waiting for manifold to come UPS


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## Sandhill Crane (May 10, 2016)

Sam: You may want to loosen the hose clamps on the boom until you know how much the cylinder is going to move. I just replaced several hoses on my forklift. When checking for leaks, I realized I could have easily ripped a fitting out of a cylinder for lack of hose play. Side note: It's almost time to get the swimming pools out.





Kids!


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## sam-tip (May 10, 2016)

Thanks. Yes they are loose. Because of the swivel of the boom trying to keep the hoses from twisting by having the hose loop and move in and out. Hard to explain.

Also made a safety stop for the boom. The hydraulics will lift the boom then I will insert the stop so the boom will not lower. Just encase I hit the wrong lever. I hit my head enough as it is.

Todays project is a work table for the super split.













A little wider than oem work table


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## GM_Grimmy (May 10, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Getting closer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is the thing all the hoses are going to in this pic (that I quoted, I didn't include all the other pics)? I can see 9 hoses from from it, and I know there are more. What's that for or what's is function?


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## sam-tip (May 10, 2016)

GM_Grimmy said:


> What is the thing all the hoses are going to in this pic (that I quoted, I didn't include all the other pics)? I can see 9 hoses from from it, and I know there are more. What's that for or what's is function?



They are flow dividers/priority valves. Total of three flow dividers. One is fixed at 9 gpm for the drive wheels. The other two are variable with a set screw. But the instructions don't say which way to turn to increase or decrease. The second is to adjust the return stroke of the main cylinder. Afraid it would return to fast. The third is to divide the flow of the second pump between the winch and the (four way wedge, stabilizer jack, boom and steering wheel) There is also a check valve added to one of the flow dividers.

Also using the power beyond feature on both valve assemblies.

Think I should break out the label maker to label the handles.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 10, 2016)

I like the SS receiver hitch Sam.


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## sam-tip (May 10, 2016)

Makes it easy to move around with the 4 wheeler. But don't go to fast. I rolled one this spring.


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## dancan (May 10, 2016)

Small fortune just in fittings LOL
Great build !


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## dieselfitter (May 10, 2016)

It looks good Doug. Andy and I have discussed building a splitter for use at Interfaith charity cuts. We've been following this thread with interest.


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## sam-tip (May 10, 2016)

Sweet! Can't wait to get this thing running. Falling behind on my wood splitting. Only have enough stored split wood for one season at the moment not 5. Shouldn't take long to catch back up.


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## sam-tip (May 11, 2016)

It has a heart beat. Just a few loose fittings so far. Needs a few adjustments and and tightening of a few more bolts


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## sam-tip (May 11, 2016)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Sam: You may want to loosen the hose clamps on the boom until you know how much the cylinder is going to move. I just replaced several hoses on my forklift. When checking for leaks, I realized I could have easily ripped a fitting out of a cylinder for lack of hose play. Side note: It's almost time to get the swimming pools out.
> View attachment 502549
> View attachment 502550
> View attachment 502552
> ...


Loose but not loose enough. Good call!


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## sam-tip (May 12, 2016)

The mess of return lines before going to the filters.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 12, 2016)

What a great build! Thanks for sharing.


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## sam-tip (May 13, 2016)

Thought I had the splitter ready. Drive shaft fell off because the yoke is wrong size. Pump is 7/8 and yoke is 1 inch. Opps


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## GM_Grimmy (May 13, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Thought I had the splitter ready. Drive shaft fell off because the yoke is wrong size. Pump is 7/8 and yoke is 1 inch. Opps


Be able to get a part so it's ready for tomorrow?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2


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## Mrs. Sam-Tip (May 13, 2016)

I think Nate found the part!

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## Hinerman (May 13, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Thought I had the splitter ready. Drive shaft fell off because the yoke is wrong size. Pump is 7/8 and yoke is 1 inch. Opps



Any homes or property for sale next door to you


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## nstueve (May 13, 2016)

Hinerman said:


> Any homes or property for sale next door to you


Quite a few up the road. Town is encroaching on Doug's area. New housing developments.


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## damato333 (May 15, 2016)

Where is the hydraulic tank? How many gallons?


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## Time's Standing Stihl (May 15, 2016)

nstueve said:


> Quite a few up the road. Town is encroaching on Doug's area. New housing developments.


I noticed this big time the other day. Just when you think your far enough away from society...

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## sam-tip (May 16, 2016)

Last weekends splitting.







The splitter did good on Saturday. Needs some tweaking. Thursday I realized the drive shaft was wrong size and could not find one. Stihlx8 found the correct size yoke and installed it. Friday the oil filter blew a gasket and the filter would not spin off. To much of a surge from the dump valve. Bypassed the filter since the splitter had two filters. Saturday started easier. I challenged the spiltter till it wouldn't split some giant pieces. Turned up the relief pressure from the stock 2000 psi and it started eating the giant pieces. Four way worked great. The beam will flex when cutting wood sideways.

Winch needs a close center valve body not open center.
I slowed down the return stroke with a adjustable flow divider. The divider will be removed and moved to the jack, boom and winch.
The ground speed is to fast. The jack and lift arm are to fast. The winch is also to fast. 
One of the drive wheels is needing new seals. It leaks.

So some new plumbing to slow a few things down. Plus some more counter weight in the back or a wheelie wheel. Used about 7 gallons of diesel for the hard day of splitting.


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## sam-tip (May 16, 2016)

damato333 said:


> Where is the hydraulic tank? How many gallons?


Hydro tank is black plastic on the side. Last part to attach. Easier to get to fittings with out tank. Hold 15 gallons of hydro oil. Ran all day and stayed cool with cooler.


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## GM_Grimmy (May 16, 2016)

It did really well considering how you had to get things together before your deadline. I say issues are good as you got to learn something about your machine you didn't know of before, or how to adjust this and that.

Good job on the build Doug! Are you ready for orders now? 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2


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## sam-tip (May 16, 2016)

Not ready. Considering this took me 11 1/2 months to demo design and build. Started May 24th 2015. Took a bit longer than I wanted and was very messy.


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## damato333 (May 16, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Not ready. Considering this took me 11 1/2 months to demo design and build. Started May 24th 2015. Took a bit longer than I wanted and was very messy.


You do very good work. I just picked up a old john deere fairway mower and want to do something similar to yours. Nothing as extensive as yours. I do not have skills like you do. Any advice on things to do and not to do?


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## sam-tip (May 16, 2016)

Start simple. Break it. Fix it. Make it faster. Break it and learn what you did wrong. This is my 8th splitter. First I have built but added stuff to all of them. I am an Engineer so the first thing I do on new equipment is take the cover off and see what is inside and make it better. I still have 5 of the splitters. Each has it's purpose. Speed vs power vs size. Figure out what will work for you and the wood you have to split.


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## damato333 (May 16, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Start simple. Break it. Fix it. Make it faster. Break it and learn what you did wrong. This is my 8th splitter. First I have built but added stuff to all of them. I am an Engineer so the first thing I do on new equipment is take the cover off and see what is inside and make it better. I still have 5 of the splitters. Each has it's purpose. Speed vs power vs size. Figure out what will work for you and the wood you have to split.


I appreciatate that. Hopefully I don't screw up to much. Lol


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## sam-tip (May 21, 2016)

Started the process of making adjustment to the hydraulics. Tried the shopvac method of not loosing oil from the tank. Doesn't work so well when the shopvac fills up with oil. Worked for the first hose change but not for the tank return line. So I ended up draining the entire system of oil and fuel to remove the fuel and oil tanks to give me easy access to the hoses.

Moving hoses so the dump valve dumps to the hydraulic tank. The dump valve did go to the cooler then to tank. Next step is rearranging the flow dividers and changing the valve type on the winch.


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## sam-tip (May 31, 2016)

Finished changing hydraulics last night. Rerouted dump valve to tank. Took out one flow divider. Changed the drive valve to a adjustable flow and direction valve. Changed the valve for the winch. Lowered the flow rates to the drive wheels, winch, 4 way, jack and boom lift. The winch is still to fast but will add a pulley block to cut the speed in half or more. But the winch still will not free spool when the winch handle is moved to free spool. It locks in on direction. Don't understand the handle positions for the winch.


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## sam-tip (Jun 1, 2016)

Update winch manufacture is sending out new brake for winch. The winch is a counter clockwise winch but only turns clockwise. Locks up when turned counter clockwise. It does free spool but will not power wind. I did try winding the winch backwards and works but locks up when going in other direction. I did learn the difference in a winch vs hoist. Hoist has no free spool and is rated to hold the load in the air.

Still need to:
ad some weight for counter balance while driving
build umbrella mount.
extend seat out a few inches.
build a toolbox holder.


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## sam-tip (Jun 2, 2016)

New winch part installed and working. Warn winch replaced the part and sent it to me next day for free!









Broken from factory part


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## sam-tip (Jun 5, 2016)




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## sam-tip (Jun 5, 2016)




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## GM_Grimmy (Jun 5, 2016)

Looking good Doug! Dammit, now I want a winch on mine for retrieval!!


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 5, 2016)

sam-tip said:


>




What is howling?


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## Woodyjiw (Jun 6, 2016)

Impressive machine!!


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jun 6, 2016)

looks like a multi-gun battleship to me... one step down from a certified Mars Rover... nicely planned and executed!

I expected it to split wood!  and I expected it to split big heavy chunks, too! 

but what I liked the most was the cool wood dragger and tree chunk lift tongs... with the remote controller!

and that the unit is driveable...

as for splitting, aside from size... looks as if u struggle like the rest of us... at times half chunks can be just as tuff as a whole chunk to move about! as we see in ur vids...

but as an engineering project... clearly form follows function.

very impressive! nicely planned and very well executed. great design, fabrication... and assembly!

and a tip of the hat... for all the problem solving you did so well, too... it reminds me of a big fat elephant... that can dance as a ballerina on the stage of Swan Lake, for example...

'fun toy!' a serious machine...

cool thread ~ 

thanks for taking the time to share it with us... job well done!


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## sam-tip (Jun 6, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> What is howling?




That would be me running some of the systems to hard to make the winch just a little faster. Will be tweaking more of the hydraulics. Adding another adjustable flow divider. The winch switch valve is only rated for 5 gpm. But the winch will work at 12 gpm. Plus the steering is only rated for 6 gpm at 1450 pressure relief. Will be switching back to the original switch valve which will handle the higher flow rate.

Now that the winch is fixed I can make appropriate adjustment to the rest of the systems. The winch was broken out of the box. So I changed more of the hydraulics than I needed to change.


Which means I need to go get another 5 gallons of hydro oil. Very messy making changes.

I also have a wireless remote setup for the winch to install. But the wired remote does work nice.


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## sweepleader (Jun 6, 2016)

Great splitter, love it. 

If you put the wireless unit on, watch out for delays in reaction after you push the button. I have dealt with 2 separate systems with wireless controls and they both had delays when called to work (seemed like forever on the tow truck, getting it to stop doing what it was doing.) I am sure this would be a function of the quality of the system so you may not experience it, but I would suggest you dummy up the system before a expending a lot of work integrating it only to find out it is unacceptable.

Thanks for sharing the build, very nice.


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## Ted Jenkins (Jun 7, 2016)

Sam a very great build. When I saw your frame work it caused me to start thinking. After seeing a completed splitter it made great sense. I have been using my portable winch to drag logs above my splitter then cut the logs into rounds. The general plan has been after the logs have been cut roll them onto the splitter. Was wondering how do you get the wood to the area that where you are splitting. It looks like your terrain is relatively level. In CA we do not know what level is. My first portable winch took me more than 2 months working full time to assemble it. The last one I built almost 35 years ago took even longer. Now that you are trying to make your equipment remote controlled really caught my attention because that is what I am trying to do also. Thanks


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## sam-tip (Jun 7, 2016)

Level enough that I did not install the brakes. Just take a smooth and short ride down the slope here at my wood lot.

I did keep the brakes if needed later. Thinking I should put the brakes back on.


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## sam-tip (Jun 21, 2016)

Switching more parts around this weekend. Got new solenoid valve body and pressure relief. All adjustable this time.

Sub plate for valve body is little small. Got bigger one coming in soon.

Also got new front tires.


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## dancan (Jun 21, 2016)

You can never have enough hydro fittings LOL


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## sam-tip (Jun 22, 2016)

dancan said:


> You can never have enough hydro fittings LOL


No never enough. LOL






People at hydro shop know me by name now.


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## sam-tip (Jun 26, 2016)

Update. I have put 15 hours on splitter so far in the heat of summer. Hydro temps are nice and cool. I can hold onto hoses with bare hand. Motor gets warm if I don't run at mid rpms or higher. To keep enough air going through radiator.

Drive wheel motor is leaking more than I would like.

Winch is working great.

Log table is taking a beating. Just bent on one side. Still solid. Got pushed down by a large piece of wood that went under the 4 way wedge.



AR400 knives are still razor sharp. I must be careful when moving wood near the knives. Ouch!


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## sam-tip (Jul 6, 2016)

Back on the blocks again. Moving the wheel motor case drain away from the dump valve. Only thing I can think would be causing the wheel motors to leak.

Plus rerouting some hoses while apart again.

Tired of fixing new leaks. No leaks while warm and running. But next morning after everything cools there are plenty of leaks.


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## sam-tip (Jul 6, 2016)

My new bead seal on suction tube. J B weld and wire. Sand smooth tomorrow.

Plus moved the hose to tube connection to a more convenient location.













Size 24 flat face seal connector to the hydro tank.


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## muddstopper (Jul 7, 2016)

Does your case drain run straight from wheel motor to tank or is it plumbed into a return line. Plumbing the case drain into a return line can cause back pressure on the case drain which would cause a leak. Since you mentioned the dump valve in your description, I will speculate some, so if I am wrong just ignore. If you have plumbed the case drain into the dump valve return line, that as the dump valve is dumping excess oil to tank, it is possible that it could be causing back pressure on the case drain. If possible, it is best to run the case drain straight to tank


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## sam-tip (Jul 7, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> Does your case drain run straight from wheel motor to tank or is it plumbed into a return line. Plumbing the case drain into a return line can cause back pressure on the case drain which would cause a leak. Since you mentioned the dump valve in your description, I will speculate some, so if I am wrong just ignore. If you have plumbed the case drain into the dump valve return line, that as the dump valve is dumping excess oil to tank, it is possible that it could be causing back pressure on the case drain. If possible, it is best to run the case drain straight to tank


 


Yes it was plumbed into the return line manifold. The same manifold that the dump valve is plumbed. I have two return line manifolds to tank. The first manifold goes through the filter then to cooler then to tank. The second manifold goes directly to the tank. The second has the dump valve and return line for the auto cycle valve/power beyond(drive wheels). The cooler could not handle the dump valve so I switched it. The filter also could not handle the dump valve so I removed it. The filter was blown off the housing after first few cycles of the cylinder.

The easy fix is to move the drive motor case drain to between the cooler and filter to help eliminate back pressure. But will still have some back pressure.

I think my best option would be to add a third return line just for the drive motors. Not sure how I can do that yet. It is a plastic tank. Any recommendations? I just pulled the hydro tank so now is the time.

The odd thing is the wheels only leaked after everything has a chance to cool down overnight. Was fine during normal operation/splitting. Using Bobcat brand oil.


On left you can see how I bypassed the blown filter.


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## sam-tip (Jul 7, 2016)

Think my best option is to drill out and tap the adapter fitting at the inlet to the tank. But that is still inline with the dump valve. There is no clean out opening for the tank. The tank was sealed after the fittings were installed.

How much back pressure will the cooler create? 1" lines to and from cooler. Should be less than the dump valve surge.


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## sweepleader (Jul 7, 2016)

How about a tee at the tank drain? That would have no more pressure than the head in the tank, which would be less than if you ran the return line into the tank above the fluid level...


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## sam-tip (Jul 7, 2016)

Yes tee to drain is an option. The drain plug does have a magnet attached. Will measure fitting size (SAE oring ) and check available options. Been reading up on case drain problems with motors. Even a filter can cause problems with motor case drains. From my google readings the less pressure the better. Just below oil fill line is best. The drain plug would be a just few inches of pressure. 13.6 inches of water is equal to 1 inch of Mercury which is equal to 0.49 psi. Should be ok.


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## sweepleader (Jul 7, 2016)

Anywhere from just below the oil fill line to all the way down at the tank drain would have the same pressure in the line to the case drain. I am pretty sure that would be as low as you can get with the tank oil fill line above the case drain.

Sorry to see it giving you so many problems, great machine, thanks for sharing it.


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## muddstopper (Jul 7, 2016)

Doug, I think if you tee'd the case drain to any of the return lines *at* the tank, you should be able to get by. I would probably use a larger tee than the return hose to dump the return an drain thru just to elminate any back pressure. Not sure on back pressure limits for case drains, I am wanting to say the shaft seals are only rated for around 75psi. You certainly dont want to run the drain thru a filter with any other return oil as that pressure can easily double the 75psi limit of the seals. Also, case drain oil can be dumped straight into the top of the tank, above oil level without causeing foaming issues. Case drain oil flow shouldnt be any more than pouring oil out of a can into the fill cap, ie. low flow and low pressure. If you already have a large flow of oil coming out of your case drain lines, you have already blown your motor seals and might as well plan on rebuilding the drive motors.


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## sam-tip (Jul 7, 2016)

Found this. Motor case drain max pressure is 50 psi. An OEM option for motor is case drain check valve. I do have a 5 psi check valve. Running it to tank is best option.


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## sam-tip (Jul 28, 2016)

Put new seals in drive wheel motors an ran case drain to bottom of oil tank. Ran the line up over above tank level and then down to bottom of tank.

Wheels didn't leak over night like before. Still a few tiny leaks to case down. Some might just be the oil I spilled refilling the tank.

Wow was it humid last night splitting. Moving wood to a shady spot for tonight's splitting. Working on some wild cherry wood.

Needed a big fan last night.


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## GM_Grimmy (Jul 28, 2016)

I use these:

https://www.amazon.com/XPOWER-P-230AT-Speeds-Outlets-2-3-Amp/dp/B00BY48UU8

As long as you are in the path of it, you are good. Check out this vid: 
 
You can see the red one at the start of this video. I have since gotten another one. They have dual outlets on them, so you can daisy chain them, or plug other things into them, plus they have a built in circuit breaker for the outlets. I run them off my little Yamaha 2k watt generator.


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## sweepleader (Jul 28, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Ran the line up over above tank level and then down to bottom of tank.



If the drain goes up forming a high loop that can trap air, you need to be able to bleed the air out to minimize the back pressure. If there is an air bubble at the top, the oil will have to be pushed up and the bubble down to get oil to flow over the top, not good. This could be worse than going to the top of the tank if the bubble is big enough.


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## sam-tip (Jul 28, 2016)

About a 8 to 10 inch loop. The tank is above the wheels for ovious reasons.

Would it be odd if I put a hitch on the back to pull my super split to the wood pile behind this splitter. Lift and bust up the bigger stuff then finish with the super split for speed.


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## sweepleader (Jul 28, 2016)

Would that be a split shift situation? :{)

The drain hose would present less pressure to the wheel motors if it went UP all the way to the tank and entered below the oil level, rather than up above the tank then back down. I suggested the tank drain as you said there were no more openings in the tank to use. With the potential of trapping air above the oil level you run the risk of increased pressure in the drain line. I think you would be better off going up all the way with no down even if you have to go into the top of the tank above the oil level. If the top part of the loop can drain into the tank, that is, it can get air in to allow the bubble to breath, you would be better off than if the bubble were trapped by the oil level in the tank. If you cannot reroute the hose, you might vent the top of the loop with a tee and a breather, so long as it can drain into the tank and not push oil out the breather. That would prevent a bubble forming in the top of the loop. I don't know how much flow there is in that drain line, that might be an issue if a breather were installed.


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## GM_Grimmy (Jul 29, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> About a 8 to 10 inch loop. The tank is above the wheels for ovious reasons.
> 
> Would it be odd if I put a hitch on the back to pull my super split to the wood pile behind this splitter. Lift and bust up the bigger stuff then finish with the super split for speed.


It's only be odd if you added a hitch and didn't use it. 

You could always use it to pull Cece's wagon, for her to ride in and supervise.......unless she already has a Captain's chair somewhere else on the splitter.


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## muddstopper (Jul 29, 2016)

Doug, I dont think you need to worry about a loop in your case drain return. as long as there is not any kind of restriction in the return line, any air should be easily pushed out at 4-5psi, unless your loop is several feet above the tank. A case drain isnot supposed to have any appreciable amount of flow, if its running a full stream of oil, you still have oil bypassing the seals in the wheel motors. Also, a case drain return can be plumbed above the tank oil level with out any problems. 
And why in the world would you want to connect a super split behind this splitter, , I dont see how yo can keep up with just the one splitter, much less with two, unless you plan on a extra set of hands to help., I have seen as many as two resplitting rigs hooked up behind wood processors, but these where real high capacity machines and you had two people at the end of the wedge picking up the large pieces from the conveyor for resplitting. I have watched them for hours and every body stayed very busy when this machine was in oeration.


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## Mrs. Sam-Tip (Jul 29, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> Doug, I dont think you need to worry about a loop in your case drain return. as long as there is not any kind of restriction in the return line, any air should be easily pushed out at 4-5psi, unless your loop is several feet above the tank. A case drain isnot supposed to have any appreciable amount of flow, if its running a full stream of oil, you still have oil bypassing the seals in the wheel motors. Also, a case drain return can be plumbed above the tank oil level with out any problems.
> And why in the world would you want to connect a super split behind this splitter, , I dont see how yo can keep up with just the one splitter, much less with two, unless you plan on a extra set of hands to help., I have seen as many as two resplitting rigs hooked up behind wood processors, but these where real high capacity machines and you had two people at the end of the wedge picking up the large pieces from the conveyor for resplitting. I have watched them for hours and every body stayed very busy when this machine was in oeration.


Pulling a splitter behind a splitter makes me think of these three words to describe Doug. 
"Overkill is underrated."



Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 29, 2016)

On my skid steer the case drains gave filters. Wonder why? S250 Bobcat


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## sam-tip (Jul 29, 2016)

I have read a lot of bad things about filters on case drains.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jul 29, 2016)

I have used a TW-6 w/log lift to split large rounds into manageable chunks, and re-split with an SS. Lots and lots of extra handling and work.
Re-splitting on the TW was not much better, until I had the four-way wing lengthened to make a shelf.
What I found works best for re-splitting large rounds is this sequence.
First split: 4-way lowered all the way. On a TW this will yield about a 4" lower split. Leaves two humungous split pieces setting on top of the wing. Without the wing lengthened, these pieces flop over onto the out feed, and you have to chase them, and reposition them on the front side of the wedge. With the 4-way, log lift, and table grate it is sometimes awkward with a hundred pound split.
Second split: Okay, big pieces still on top of 4-way wing. Now raise the 4-way, which untraps the lower pieces. Re-split each of these if necessary, using a pulp hook to snag them and pull them back, setting one aside on the log lift.
Third: Then pull the closest huge top piece onto the horizontal log lift. Pull the second piece back on the beam using a pulp hook. Lower the 4-way, and repeat.
Re-splitting with the SS generally involves picking the large splits from the TW off the ground to re-split. With oak, that's about 5,800 pounds per cord. 








Top photo: Did not split into halves, but you get the idea. Without the wing a lot of the big chunks end up on the ground.
jrider's splitter has a similar 4-way shelf design, although I did not know that a year and a half ago when I had mine welded up.
No SS needed for the big stuff.


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## muddstopper (Jul 30, 2016)

Sandhill, I do similar to what you do with large splits. I do have a 6way wedge but on really large rounds, I also leave the wedge below center of the round. My main wedge is 24in tall fully lifted so I end up with 6 reasonable size splits and then 2 larger halfs that need respliting. I dont have extensions on my wings so the top halfs will fall off the wedge, but I usually will grab one half before it falls and then run it thru the 6way again and then have to pick the other half up to resplit it. About 3 passes and I usually have 18 useable splits. I have also been know to stack 2, sometime 3 pieces on top of each other to run thru the wedge at the same time.


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## sam-tip (Aug 21, 2016)

20 hours on splitter and another fix is needed. Broke the 4 way wedge. 

Will be sending back for metal testing and rebuild. Broke on some cherry wood.


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## GM_Grimmy (Aug 22, 2016)

Youch! Hope you get back in business soon.


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## muddstopper (Aug 22, 2016)

Dough, take a look at the bridge that Sandhill added to his wing,, bottom pic in his post. I think you might have to add something similar to yours. As for the wings breaking, I cant blow up the pic for a better look, but it sort of looks like the weld had a little bit of under cut where the ripping started and might be the cause. I am not a welding expert so take my comment as an opinion, not a fact.


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## sweepleader (Aug 23, 2016)

Looks to me like the cutting edge of the wing is below the deck when the 4 way is retracted, gets it out of the way when not in use. Also looks like that design combined with the one way taper of the wing's cutting edge puts the force of the split all concentrated on that weld. Like muddstopper said, there looks to have been a crack started at the weld which might be pretty hard to correct with the design chosen. I would want to add steel below the wing, maybe raise the spitting deck where the log lays to allow the wing to stay below. I would think about re-beveling the wings to get the cutting edge higher up. All would be attempting to move the major force up into the middle of the steel rather than concentrated on a weld on an inside corner at the edge of the lifting ring. Might be very hard to do with the main beam in the way... Sharpening the wing by reducing the leading edge angle might reduce the force on the wing enough to help. Maybe the wing could be redesigned so that it connected together in front of the lifting ring, so the cutting edge on one side was one piece with the cutting edge on the other side. They would then transmit the force that broke this unit directly across to the other side without any welds inbetween....

Best of luck, this is a great machine. I am also not a welding expert but I play one on weekends.


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## sam-tip (Aug 23, 2016)

My best photo before paint


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## sweepleader (Aug 23, 2016)

Looks like you have the thickness of the wing in front there where the wings could be one piece all the way across the splitter. You can see from these pics how far the cutting edge is from the weld and how big the notch is that concentrates the load on the weld. Since you are making up a new unit you might make the wings a foot or more deep, to the left in the bottom picture, to wrap all the way around the post. Cut a hole in the wings to take the support post, so the one piece wing goes across in front too without a break. Doing that would likely improve the strength 10 or 20 times. A friend once calculated the strength of a tow hook vs a ring made of the same material, the ring was 7 times stronger, I think you have a similar situation here. If you double bevel the cutting edge it will not tend to dig into the split on the bottom and try to cut across the grain. It also looks like the wing is angled forward, if so, that puts the initial force way out toward the end, adding leverage taken by the weld. I would angle it back so the start of the spit is right at the weld removing the leverage and dropping the load. Too much angle and the vertical split with just dump the pieces off without making the 4 way split, I don't have a suggestion for that problem. Perhaps if the wings were strengthened they could still be angled forward.


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## sam-tip (Aug 24, 2016)

I am thinking double bevel edge. The 4 way would just sink into the soft woods until it would pop. It popped a little more on the piece of cherry.


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## sam-tip (Sep 2, 2016)

New 4 ways are made. Just need to go pick them up.


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## sam-tip (Sep 6, 2016)

Got the wedges today.


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## GM_Grimmy (Sep 6, 2016)

Vid of new wedge being put to work please 

Looks good Doug!


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## sam-tip (Sep 6, 2016)

Maybe Saturday for video. Just to hot this afternoon. Feel like 100. To hot for September. I will keep the gopro going while splitting so I can explain what it does and doesn't do.


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## sam-tip (Sep 6, 2016)

One is 18 inch wide the original is 21 inch


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## Sandhill Crane (Sep 6, 2016)

Very pretty, but what is different between the old and the new wedge? 
The design looks similar to the old one, minus three inches. 
If you add a wing on the back, as in post #193, part of the stress becomes compression across the rear plate as the wing tips push rear ward. The wings real advantage is re-splitting large pieces. I do wish I had made it wider because the top splits are pushed sideways a considerable amount with Timberwolf's wide vertical wedge. I did not make it wider because I thought it would be harder to re-split the lower splits. After using it, 2" wider on each side would be 'more gooder'.
Another observation. Timberwolf's four-way wedge floats. It is annoying actually, because sometimes it is lifted and pushed off by a round. On the other hand, the floating design may reduce stress on the wedge and lift cylinder. What do others think? Timberwolf uses it as a selling point, that the wing can be easily flipped for different size splits, or removed for monster rounds. I just leave it one way myself, and remove the four-way, and the out feed table when towing.
I'd really like to see you try a four-way wedge like mine or jriders on his splitter (Iron and Oak?). I think you would like it. Your splitter build is already way outside the box.
I just noticed too, your outfit table is very wide, which helps get the splits past the four-way wedge for re-splitting. Very nice plus.


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## sam-tip (Sep 6, 2016)

I took this picture just for fun of it.








I plan on making another wedge later that will be more like the recommended post. 12 x 24 piece of 3/4 AR500 steel.


I will give these a quick test before cutting them up to improve/junk them.

I will also be changing the work table. Will try sheet metal instead of tubes. These 3/16 thick tubes are heavy and wood doesn't slide like I want. Also wider.


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## sam-tip (Sep 11, 2016)

Made video of trying to break the new 4 way wedge. Only had one piece fly off this time and got it on video. This was with the original 4 way. The smaller 4 way did much better than the original. The wedge/face angle is change a little on the original. Only tossed the wood half as far as it used to.


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## sam-tip (Sep 11, 2016)

Another video of cranking out some wood. I do like the auto cycle valve.


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## GM_Grimmy (Sep 11, 2016)

Looking good Doug!


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## sam-tip (Nov 7, 2016)

Had to make a repair yesterday. Table was crowded with splits and one pushed sideways and broke one side of the log table. Hooked the tong to the broken hanging wing of table and pulled it back up with winch. Drove to shop and welded it up. Back to splitting 5 minutes later. Did 3.5 cord yeaterday.


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## GM_Grimmy (Nov 7, 2016)

Sounds like you need a bigger table!


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## sam-tip (Nov 7, 2016)

Yes but thinking bigger might not be better because of me working by myself. Harder for me to reach the splits to clear the table and fill baskets. But bigger table would hold more splits. A small conveyor at end of table would be nice. Then have conveyor fold up over the top for travel.

Thinking sheet metal on top of next table. The tubes seem to catch the wood and break the table.


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## GM_Grimmy (Nov 7, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Yes but thinking bigger might not be better because of me working by myself. Harder for me to reach the splits to clear the table and fill baskets. But bigger table would hold more splits. A small conveyor at end of table would be nice. Then have conveyor fold up over the top for travel.
> 
> Thinking sheet metal on top of next table. The tubes seem to catch the wood and break the table.


Just put some sheet steel on top of your table now. Can use some thinner stuff to to having tubes underneath. I want to put some on my log lift. I need another sheet about the size that's already there, so wood will slide better and easier.


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 7, 2016)

Looks good but I have a question. What is the stroke of your splitter? It seems to me you are wasting a lot of time waiting for the pusher to come back to the chunk waiting to be split. Maybe you could add a couple of sides to the beam and put in two or three chunks at a time? Or a stop on the beam if all your chunks are short.


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## sam-tip (Nov 7, 2016)

The stroke is 30 inches. Bore is 4.5 with 3.5 shaft. I often double up the pieces. Either one behind the other or one on top of the other. Plus stop it short of returning all the way. But the return stroke is under 2 seconds. So it often returns all the way before I get a chance to stop it when on auto cycle. The wood really flys when doubling up the pieces.


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## A.E. Metal Werx (Nov 8, 2016)

Morning all, 
Sadly it has been brought to my attention that I should log on here and defend my product/design for the 4-way. 

--4-way knife extending forward past the slide tube.
Reasoning: get a more complete 4-way split.

--Angled 4-way knife towards the front-pusher.
Reasoning: helps keep the wood sucked in towards the center vs being easily pushed out. 

As for the broken 4-way, cause was a defect in the slide tube. 

Everyone has there idea for an ideal set up. I use mine because it has proved to work great in the several splitters I have out there. Sucks that one defect has put all my work in jeopardy. I will add that the broken 4-way was replaced in a timely manner at no charge. Just like it should be. Sucks that his machine was down for the time it was.


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 8, 2016)

Don't let any naysayers get to you. Crap happens sometimes and it's not whether something broke, it's whether the product was stood behind. 

sent from a field


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## sam-tip (Jan 22, 2017)

New table in the works.


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## GM_Grimmy (Jan 23, 2017)

Looks good Doug!! 

What made you decide on something different?


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## sam-tip (Jan 23, 2017)

Several things The old one was getting bent and fell off once. Once in a while a piece would get between the tubes and get stuck. Then the ram would push until the table would brake. Plus it was heavy causing poor balance. The new one is stronger were it needs it and lighter total weight. Copied the design of the super split table Just a little more room for me the operator too. 

PS Finish resplitting all the firewood processor wood. At first the firewood processor seemed great. But the resplitting to get evenly sized wood took a few months.


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## GM_Grimmy (Jan 23, 2017)

I've had a few pieces get stuck on mine, but I was able to catch it before anything broke. Interesting to see how the new table works out for ya.

Resplitting.....bleh! That sounds like a lot of work! So did your pile get bigger then? haha


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## sam-tip (Jan 23, 2017)

Everything is in totes or wire baskets now. No piles. 




















Before pile


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 24, 2017)

Am I the only one who's not seeing those pics?


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## sam-tip (Feb 3, 2017)

Winch now works with wireless and wired. Don't need to dragging a cord around the splitter. Just a small wireless control.


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## GM_Grimmy (Feb 3, 2017)

Very nice! Is that a kit to make a winch wireless?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## sam-tip (Feb 3, 2017)

GM_Grimmy said:


> Very nice! Is that a kit to make a winch wireless?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk




Yes a kit to make winches wireless. Had to do a little adapting to work with the hydraulic winch solenoid and existing control. Used 4 auto relays to isolate each circuit. It is a direct hookup for electric winches.


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## GM_Grimmy (Feb 5, 2017)

What's the range of your wireless control?


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## sam-tip (Feb 5, 2017)

GM_Grimmy said:


> What's the range of your wireless control?



Manual says remote will control the winch from 50ft. I have seen the controls used on dump trailers and 5th wheel trailers with hydraulic jacks.


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## TheNerd (Feb 8, 2017)

Add one of those magnets for your tape measures to the remote. I will be using this on a number of tools/devices. Great idea!


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## TheNerd (Feb 8, 2017)

I work in the golf industry and just found this site. I have become a wood lot with indoor tennis and squash courts carved out of the surrounding forest and drought killed dead stand.
I have split wood since I could lift an axe or maul and in my teens(80's) was faster than any splitter available. With the stacks of logs and rounds I rented a cheap discount style splitter for the weekend. WOW! Faster with less work. Flimsy and hard to move.
I thought I would be original and make a splitter out of an old greens mower. I looped the drive motors for now and left the brakes installed but not in use and planed a winch to move around the pile.
You have out done my idea! Half my logs/rounds are over 2.5 feet to over 5 feet in diameter and have decided on horizontal and vertical design.
I still need the beam and hoses but should be a fun project. 
I will start a thread soon but needed to comment as you totally raised the level of cool.



Some pictures of my set up. 16hp Kohler, Toro workman pump. 5 inch x 2 x 24 cylinder and Prince valve. I just found a local steel source for the beam but covered in snow.
Thanks for documenting your project.
Chad.


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## sam-tip (Apr 15, 2017)

Few more tweaks.


Added rope flairlead and brake on one wheel. Would have done both wheels but I cut off the bracket that holds the brake cable to narrow the axel. I must have thought why do I need that and tossed the bracket.












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## sam-tip (May 27, 2017)

Quick update. 

Spent some time on the belt grinder and changed the angle on the 4 way wedge. Loving the less steep angle. Slices through soft wood with ease. Angle is about 23 degrees now.


Also lowered the work table 1 inch. Broke the bolts off twice from wood pushing down on the table.




















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## Wowzer (May 29, 2017)

hows your table holding up now with the sheet metal on it, i built my side table, and end with 1.5" .125"WT tube, i have used it a couple of times now and find things like to fall through the gap on them, i was almost thinking about doing some what the same thing but i have a side where i can pull up beside with my compact to load rounds, would you do anything differently, maybe use plastic, tube instead of angle iron?


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## sam-tip (May 30, 2017)

Table was not holding up at the same height as original table. The sheet metal was getting dented and pushed down as wood went through the 4 way wedge. So far with lowering the table it has not fell off yet.

Wish I would have changed the angle of the 4 way wedge earlier. It is so much better now. Plus I need a better umbrella. This umbrella is cheap.


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## hoskvarna (May 30, 2017)

Go to Theisens Doug and get one for the old tractors. 


Sent from Hoskvarna Hills


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## sam-tip (May 31, 2017)

Thought about using this one. Not so cheap. See how it holds up being on patio for awhile.





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## sam-tip (Jun 1, 2017)

Think I figured out my next mod for the splitter. Because of the 30 inch stroke the extend time is a bit slow/long. I try to stop the return from going all the way back but it is to fast to catch it.

I am going to try a regenerative hydraulic circuit. This will increase the none load speed of the extend cycle. Doing the math it could cut the extend time by a second or two. All because of the long stroke. Having the large diameter rod helps with the faster extend power.

Because I normally split at half throttle the valves should handle the increase in gpm.

I think this is how the Hahn processor has high speed and power modes.





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## sam-tip (Jul 12, 2017)

I added the hydraulic regeneration to the log splitter. The extend stroke is almost twice as fast now. I cut 5 seconds off of the total split cycle. Video is at my normal split speed. About 1/2 throttle at about 13-14 gallon per minute.

I am also adding regeneration to my TM skid steer splitter. It needs the speed for the 30 inch stroke.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jul 12, 2017)

"Wood stacker no more..." 
What a huge difference in reduced effort handling wood. 
It takes longer. 
Every time a basket is full you have to stop and switch out. 
And there is an expense in acquiring baskets, or containers, but it is so worth it.

Is a regeneration valve different than a dump valve? 
It seems to be if it effects the extend stroke.
Can you explain the difference?


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## NSMaple1 (Jul 13, 2017)

Wallenstein is putting regen on some of their new models - saw that blurb a year or so ago.

'Firebolt'.


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## sam-tip (Jul 13, 2017)

I will do my best to explain. A dump valve is a pilot to open valve cartridge. Once pressure is applied to pilot port the valve opens and dumps the oil. I am using a sequence valve and other check valves to create a pressure sensing regeneration valve. The sequence valve will bypass extra oil and hold a adjustable pressure at the inlet port. Regeneration can also be done with a pilot counter balance valve. A counter balance valve will open as the pressure increases to the pilot port. 

Each one of the cartridges uses the same valve body. There function just depends on the cartridge that is installed in the valve body. You can go buy a regeneration valve but I could not find them on Ebay. So I bought the parts on Ebay to make a regenerative setup. Those I could find old new stock.

In regeneration the oil coming out of the cylinder rod end is added to the oil going into the cylinder base thus increasing the oil going into the cylinder base. But to maintain the power for splitting the added rod oil is diverted to tank once a selected pressure is reached.


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## A.E. Metal Werx (Jul 13, 2017)

sam-tip said:


> I will do my best to explain. A dump valve is a pilot to open valve cartridge. Once pressure is applied to pilot port the valve opens and dumps the oil. I am using a sequence valve and other check valves to create a pressure sensing regeneration valve. The sequence valve will bypass extra oil and hold a adjustable pressure at the inlet port. Regeneration can also be done with a pilot counter balance valve. A counter balance valve will open as the pressure increases to the pilot port.
> 
> Each one of the cartridges uses the same valve body. There function just depends on the cartridge that is installed in the valve body. You can go buy a regeneration valve but I could not find them on Ebay. So I bought the parts on Ebay to make a regenerative setup. Those I could find old new stock.
> 
> In regeneration the oil coming out of the cylinder rod end is added to the oil going into the cylinder base thus increasing the oil going into the cylinder base. But to maintain the power for splitting the added rod oil is diverted to tank once a selected pressure is reached.



Very well explained doug. You have provided lots of valuable information on the thread.


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## sam-tip (Jul 13, 2017)

Schematic of plumbing auto cycle with regeneration 



Plus different plumbing for TM splitter.











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## sam-tip (Sep 26, 2017)

Changing the hydraulic regeneration. This version is better because it will give me full power when I need it. Plus it will work better with the auto cycle. Already using this style with my TM splitter. It provides a softer smoother kick down to full power. It uses a counter balance valve instead of a sequence valve. The amount a regeneration is based on the pressure at the base of cylinder.





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## Jakers (Sep 26, 2017)

sam-tip said:


> Changing the hydraulic regeneration. This version is better because it will give me full power when I need it. Plus it will work better with the auto cycle. Already using this style with my TM splitter. It provides a softer smoother kick down to full power. It uses a counter balance valve instead of a sequence valve. The amount a regeneration is based on the pressure at the base of cylinder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 if you say so I can't read Greek but it looks good to me


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## NSMaple1 (Sep 27, 2017)

Hope we'll see a vid of your regen in action.


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## muddstopper (Sep 27, 2017)

Doug, at first I didnt think to much about regen on a wood splitter simply because of the power loss. To give a example of the loss, a 4in bore x 2in rod with a 24in stroke cyl at 3000psi would normally equate to a 20ton log splitter. (I'm rounding numbers here). With regen, that same cyl at same pressure would turn into about a 5ton wood splitter. Even tho the cycle time would be reduced considerablely, the force trade off to me wouldnt be worth the effort.

My mind has sort of changed now that I see what you are attempting. Altho your schematic is sort of vague as to exactly what you are plumbing in, I can see the potential. For those that dont know, regen is simply applying pressure to both ends of the cyl at the same time to increase cyl extention speed. The trade off is loss of force, as in my example above. Usually this is done at the control valve and requires human input to take the valve out of regent and place in normal hyd flow to gain back the force. Doug is taking a different approach to sort of automate the processes. By using the counter balance valve, he is reading pressure, presumably at the base end of the cyl, to change the direction of hyd flow and take the circuit out of regen mode and into normal mode. Sort of like your two stage pumps sense pressure and drops from high flow/low pressure to low flow/high pressure. 

While I at first passed this off as unnecessary. I dont need that extra half sec of speed I would gain, since I split longer wood than most and I only have a inch or two before the pusher strikes the round to be split. How much time could I really save and its adds another human function to the process. Then I got to thinking, While I only need the speed for the sec it takes to hit the wood, I only need the force for a sec or two to split the wood. Maybe the 5ton would be more than enough to finish pushing the wood thru the wedge. Regen started making more sense. With Dougs proposed setup, the cyl would be in regen until a load is sensed at what ever preset pressure he choose, at which time the valve would shift out of regen into full force splitting mode. As soon as the pressure requirement dropped below the preset level, it would go back into regen and speed up the splitter. That 4in cyl in my example could go from a 13sec cyl time to a 7 or 8 sec cycle time. (@10gpm)

Where I think it would benefit me most would be using the 32in stroke cyls on my wood processor. I wont be splitting a lot of 32in long firewood, so I might be wasting half a stroke on every round. Since I am going to be pumping 75gpm to my cyl, dont know where I am going to find the valves to make it work with regen, but Its something I am now keeping a eye out for.


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## sweepleader (Sep 27, 2017)

Many years ago, the LicketySplitter did this. I used one for a long time as a teenager and never figured out just how it worked. It had a pressure sensing valve for the run out and garage door size springs to return the single acting cylinder. The valve would change from low to high force and back again as needed, it was very fast.


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## sam-tip (Sep 28, 2017)

It does make a difference with longer and bigger diameter cylinders. I am using 32 x 4.5". Sun Hydraulics does have a valve body that does the regen. But could not find the valve body on ebay. New was like $1200 or more. So I printed the schematic and found each part on ebay for way less. This advanced approach to regeneration with a counter balance valve will provide full tonnage when needed. With a sequence valve I was loosing 500 - 600 psi. So I was loosing tonnage with the sequence valve. But with a 3600 psi pump I was still pushing 3000 psi. With basic regenerative you do loose your tonnage.

Since I got a used Hahn processor I have been bucking all the wood to 15 3/4 inches. I either have to put two rounds on the table or waist half the stroke of the cylinder. The Hahn also uses regeneration but is only good for smaller fresh green wood. Fresh wood splits easier. Some of my logs have been sitting in the pile for two years. Some are as hard as concrete.





Rounds are all about the same length. Except for the ends of the logs.


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## muddstopper (Sep 28, 2017)

I would just guess the 5-600psi pressure loss with the sequence valve probably has to do with the cracking pressure of the valve. Really, there isnt any real difference between a sequence valve and a counter balance valve. Its mostly location and orentation.

I havent researched the cartrage valves like you are using, so I am trying to figure out, how you are dealing with the changing direction of flow. I see the check valves in your schematic. It hasnt clicked in my mind just yet what you are doing, but I understand the concept. 
What has me confused, and I'll screw this up trying to explain it, Using the autocycle valve, you have to be getting the pressure to your regen off the a or b port of the autocycle valve. Then it has to flow to your seperate regen valve which would supply pressure to both the a and b ports of the cyl. Where are you installing the CB valve. I would think it would have to be inline between the regen valve and the rod end port of the cyl. The cb valve would have to sense pressure at the base port of the cyl. With pressure sensed, the CB valve would dump either back to ACV thur the the port that would normally retract the cyl. What confuses me is when the cv is used to retract the cyl, how are you preventing it from back feeding thru the CB valve to the base end of the cyl. What I havent figured out is where you are putting the CheckV to keep this from happening. Putting a check between the regen and the CB valves would prevent the regen from working and not having a check would allow retracton fluid to reach the base end. Probably some little someting I aint seeing. Sometimes, I have to draw it out myself before I understand it.


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## sam-tip (Sep 28, 2017)

There is a check valve in the counter balance valve to allow fluid to the return port of cylinder. 

Then between the return and base of the cylinder is a pilot to stop check valve. It closes when returning the cylinder. The counter balance valve acts as a adjustable pressure release for the oil coming out cylinder during extension of the cylinder. But it is bases on the pressure going into the cylinder.


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## Waltzie (Sep 28, 2017)

Sam-tip,

Just a question from your video... why not use the Hahn to split the rounds?


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## sam-tip (Sep 28, 2017)

Waltzie said:


> Sam-tip,
> 
> Just a question from your video... why not use the Hahn to split the rounds?




They are to big in diameter. Plus dry.


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## sam-tip (Oct 9, 2017)

A bunch of hoses for a log splitter.


















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## Philbert (Apr 30, 2019)

*BUMP!*

Doug brought this to a recent GTG, which made me want to dig up the build thread. Very impressive in person and on line!

Philbert


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