# Depth of face cut



## LogSawyer74 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hello gents, curious about everyone's opinion on this. I've been cutting on a buddy's land where he sold an easement to a power company along the fence line of his 40 acre property. It's pasture/hay ground, but the fence row is covered up in post oak and hickory about 35-40 feet wide along the fence. Most of it is about 10-14" diameter. The power company will be dozing the fence row pretty quickly, so I've been cutting as much as I can before it gets pushed over. Most all the trees are leaning slightly toward the barb wire for some reason, so I've been falling them against the lean using wedges. On two or three I had to use a steel splitting wedge to get enough lift to push them over (I know that's a big no-no, but I put on my sunglasses/eye protection). I've had really good luck, haven't had one go the wrong way yet. Of course there's been a few that I didn't try because the lean was too great. I've noticed that if I use a little deeper face cut, it doesn't take as much lift to get them to go past the point of balance and fall the way I want them too. I guess it moves the hinge point closer to the center of the tree. On some, I've made my face cut almost half way thru the tree to make sure I have enough lift (stack wedges) to get it over. I would never try this on a tree bigger than 14-16" or so. I'm always watching for a barber chair, but I wanted to get everyone's opinion. Is this safe? Anyone had any problems doing something similar? Is it dangerous to use a face cut deeper than a quarter or third of the tree? Thanks for any input


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## HuskStihl (Mar 5, 2015)

On a back-leaner you ideally don't want a deep face in order to allow more hinge to support the necessary wedging. Your method will be fine until you break a hinge and it goes over backwards. You might try making the back cut first, get a wedge in, put in a 1/3rd depth open face, then keep driving the wedge/sawing the back cut until things go u'r way


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## zogger (Mar 5, 2015)

I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.


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## LogSawyer74 (Mar 5, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> On a back-leaner you ideally don't want a deep face in order to allow more hinge to support the necessary wedging. Your method will be fine until you break a hinge and it goes over backwards. You might try making the back cut first, get a wedge in, put in a 1/3rd depth open face, then keep driving the wedge/sawing the back cut until things go u'r way


 
I actually tried that on one tree, but these trees are small enough that once I get a wedge in the back cut, I didn't have room to get my bar back in when I needed to narrow the hinge a bit. I've thought about taking a small wedge and cutting 2-3 inches off the tip with a hacksaw to give myself more room on these small trees....


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## LogSawyer74 (Mar 5, 2015)

zogger said:


> I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.


 
Can you elaborate on the spectacular and dangerous parts? Just curious


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## Whitespider (Mar 5, 2015)

I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
*


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## svk (Mar 5, 2015)

zogger said:


> I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.


Was that the big c-wood that went in the pond?


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## zogger (Mar 5, 2015)

svk said:


> Was that the big c-wood that went in the pond?



Tulip poplar, yep. Was some pretty good jackie chan moves there for a second.

Tree goes CREAAAAKKKK zogger goes EEEK! step, step (braine goes...rats, too slow..), big ole jump and roll!

At least I had an escape path scoped out in advance. Gravity works fast!

Top third or so is still soak curing in the pond.....


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## zogger (Mar 5, 2015)

LogSawyer74 said:


> Can you elaborate on the spectacular and dangerous parts? Just curious



I posted about it before, not ashamed to post epic fails..had a nice tulip polar, but leaning towards a pond. whereas the other direction, once felled, I could back right up to it, easy score..so I am gonna face cut it, and then wedge it over. Almost got it, but not quite, it fell the way it wanted to go anyway. 

It was rather..exciting...

Any number of wrong-o moves. First, shoulda just let it go the way it wanted and drug it out with some equipment and chains. Made the face cut wrong (that part not sure of, too shallow, not deep enough??). Underestimated the amount of force needed sledging the wedges in to move a big heavy tree. I needed more grunt than I had/have I guess. Stuff like that. 

There was nothing the other direction to attach to close by to hook up a comealong, and don't have enough longer stronger whatevers, chain/rope, etc that I would have trusted. So, I wanted to try and wedge it. I had four wedges in it and it still went the direction of the lean.


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## svk (Mar 5, 2015)

zogger said:


> Tulip poplar, yep. Was some pretty good jackie chan moves there for a second.
> 
> Tree goes CREAAAAKKKK zogger goes EEEK! step, step (braine goes...rats, too slow..), big ole jump and roll!
> 
> ...


Jackie Chan with a beard!! I can picture it happening.


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## mainewoods (Mar 5, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
> *




Yup, a little mechanical persuasion ( come-a-long,winch or vehicle)works wonders on back leaners. A snatch block really helps for offset pulling, to keep you clear of the drop zone.


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## LogSawyer74 (Mar 5, 2015)

Thanks. sounds like I would have done it the exact same way. I guess you win some and lose some. Just trying to educamate myself hoping to prevent taking down the barb wire fence and letting all the cows out....


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## svk (Mar 5, 2015)

zogger said:


> I posted about it before, not ashamed to post epic fails..had a nice tulip polar, but leaning towards a pond. whereas the other direction, once felled, I could back right up to it, easy score..so I am gonna face cut it, and then wedge it over. Almost got it, but not quite, it fell the way it wanted to go anyway.
> 
> It was rather..exciting...
> 
> ...


An experienced wedge feller can do magic. Although I prefer to use a chain hoist to ensure there are no whoopsies.


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## zogger (Mar 5, 2015)

svk said:


> An experienced wedge feller can do magic. Although I prefer to use a chain hoist to ensure there are no whoopsies.



Oh, no doubt at all. Technically, I am "more" experienced now. There's a weight and angle threshold I now know I can't do with what tools and grunt I have, so go to plan b on those, if/when the situation comes up again.


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## rwoods (Mar 5, 2015)

Be careful with those steel wedges, sometimes they get spit out rather easily and quickly - then all that extra "lift" just adds momentum to the tree which is now moving in the wrong direction. Ron


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## slowp (Mar 5, 2015)

Cody, a seasoned, excellent faller can do magic. And get some plastic falling wedges, you'll eventually nick a wedge with your saw. 



Also, there's only so much you can do with any kind of lean, and fences, pickups, houses, etc. have tractor beams.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 5, 2015)

depth of face is relative.........there is nothing wrong with a 50% face under the right circumstances. little wood is hard to turn, just don't have alot of meat to work with, i can do much more with 30"+ timber.
sounds like your not doing to bad, leaving the ones your unsure of is smart.
by the way, deep and steep faces do not cause a barber chair, not matching cuts in the face does. be care full on the hickory, it don't like real wide hinges.


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## Woody912 (Mar 5, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
> *



Me too. I also put in a high back cut and then try to ease the tree past TDC while I still have plenty of hinge. Helps to have a buddy in the truck


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## mdavlee (Mar 5, 2015)

Bore straight through the hinge from the back where the wedge will be. It can give you room if the wedge is bottoming out on the hinge. I hate smaller trees like that. No room to work for the most part. The back cut first works pretty good on them.


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## woodchuck357 (Mar 5, 2015)

Deeper notches do move the center of gravity and will increase the amount of top movement a given wedge will provide. Try laying them down closer to parallel with the fence, it is easier to get a tree to fall sideways to the lean than directly against the lean. Rope pull is much more reliable than wedges, especially with smaller trees.
Just be sure to use a long enough rope so you don't wind up under the tree.


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## LogSawyer74 (Mar 5, 2015)

Thanks everyone, very useful information


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 6, 2015)

slowp said:


> Cody, a seasoned, excellent faller can do magic. And get some plastic falling wedges, you'll eventually nick a wedge with your saw.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, there's only so much you can do with any kind of lean, and fences, pickups, houses, etc. have tractor beams.



I didn't think he was ever gonna get that last tree down. He left a Dutchman hence the difficult wedging.
A wicked man on wedges. Once he had the tree lifted he should have just refelled it.


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## Section VIII (Mar 6, 2015)

woodchuck357 said:


> Deeper notches do move the center of gravity and will increase the amount of top movement a given wedge will provide. Try laying them down closer to parallel with the fence, it is easier to get a tree to fall sideways to the lean than directly against the lean. Rope pull is much more reliable than wedges, especially with smaller trees.
> Just be sure to use a long enough rope so you don't wind up under the tree.



That's why I get at least two helpers. I attach two ropes into a "V" formation into the direction of the desired fall. That way my helpers don't have to worry about a tree landing on them (and neither do I).


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## Cfaller (Mar 6, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Bore straight through the hinge from the back where the wedge will be. It can give you room if the wedge is bottoming out on the hinge. I hate smaller trees like that. No room to work for the most part. The back cut first works pretty good on them.



This works great. Also try stacking your wedges.


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## fordf150 (Mar 6, 2015)

May not be the right way but on small wood do the world famous sloping back cut to give yourself more room for the wedge. Never tried it on a back leaner but I use that method for normal trees. Back leaner I might be a little scared the wedge would split the tree out with the extra pressure caused by a back leaner


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## zogger (Mar 6, 2015)

OK, I am going to order the massdam rope puller with some rope that comes with it. Now I need recommendation for the block that will be anchored down yonder someplace, with the rope coming back up towards me, where I am cutting. What block should I get? The puller uses 1/2 inch, and I have some 5/8ths for an extension, plus chains and some tow straps, etc.

I figure the rope puller will work better for me, because I can get a line in up high, then pull the dang slack out. Wicked hard to do with the comealong, not enough pull length (for me)


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## unclemoustache (Mar 7, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
> *



What's a dead-head pulley??


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 7, 2015)

unclemoustache said:


> What's a dead-head pulley??


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## Otahyoni (Mar 7, 2015)

unclemoustache said:


> What's a dead-head pulley??


Snatch block?


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## rwoods (Mar 7, 2015)

I believe he is referring to using a pulley to change directions as opposed to creating a mechanical advantage. In other words, using a pulley attached to an anchor point in the desired line of pull to route the pull rope/cable close to where he is cutting. Basically an anchored pulley used to create a loop or turn in the pull rope/cable.

If I am wrong, I am sure WS will have no problem correcting me.

Ron


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## zogger (Mar 7, 2015)

Site sponsor wesspur has some nice pulleys, spendy, but nice.


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## woodchuck357 (Mar 7, 2015)

Otahyoni said:


> Snatch block?


That's what I call them, but I believe a true snatch block is one that can be attached mid-line.


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## Otahyoni (Mar 7, 2015)

woodchuck357 said:


> That's what I call them, but I believe a true snatch block is one that can be attached mid-line.



The ones I call snatch blocks have a swiveling plate on either side of the pulley so, like you said, you can install it in the middle of the line without tools.


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## rwoods (Mar 7, 2015)

WS can clarify but until he does I am sticking with the definition that a dead-head pulley is an anchored pulley. WS may be using a snatch block as a dead-head but a snatch block isn't necessarily a dead-head. When you attach a single pulley snatch block to the load and the end of the rope/cable to an anchor, the snatch block moves at 1/2 the distance of the cable creating additional pull but it is not then acting as a dead-head. In that set-up the dead-head would be the anchored end of the rope/pulley. Ron


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## Otahyoni (Mar 7, 2015)

rwoods said:


> WS can clarify but until he does I am sticking with the definition that a dead-head pulley is an anchored pulley. WS may be using a snatch block as a dead-head but a snatch block isn't necessarily a dead-head. When you attach a single pulley snatch block to the load and the end of the rope/cable to an anchor, the snatch block moves at 1/2 the distance of the cable creating additional pull but it is not then acting as a dead-head. In that set-up the dead-head would be the anchored end of the rope/pulley. Ron



Fair enough. I haven't heard it referred to as that.


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## rwoods (Mar 7, 2015)

Nor have I, but I believe that is what he means as usually a dead-head is something that is not active. In this case not moving beyond the spinning of the pulley. Ron


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## 1 stihl nut (Mar 7, 2015)

He was referring to attaching the line to the upper portion of the the tree he is falling, routing it through a pulley anchored to an object located in the direction he wishes the tree to fall, and back to the come along anchored near the base of the tree he is falling. It is for changing direction of pull only, so he can operate the come along in proximity to his cutting.


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## Festus (Mar 8, 2015)

zogger said:


> OK, I am going to order the massdam rope puller with some rope that comes with it. Now I need recommendation for the block that will be anchored down yonder someplace, with the rope coming back up towards me, where I am cutting. What block should I get? The puller uses 1/2 inch, and I have some 5/8ths for an extension, plus chains and some tow straps, etc.
> 
> I figure the rope puller will work better for me, because I can get a line in up high, then pull the dang slack out. Wicked hard to do with the comealong, not enough pull length (for me)




http://www.harborfreight.com/snatch-block-61673.html

It's bigger than it looks in the picture. I have one, although I admit I haven't used it yet. Seems pretty good for the money. If you have a local store, they have really good coupons online or in magazines.


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## zogger (Mar 8, 2015)

Festus said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/snatch-block-61673.html
> 
> It's bigger than it looks in the picture. I have one, although I admit I haven't used it yet. Seems pretty good for the money. If you have a local store, they have really good coupons online or in magazines.



Looks good, price is good compared to the ones at my local TSC, but says for cable only, and I want to use rope. How wide is the pulley wheel?


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## Festus (Mar 8, 2015)

zogger said:


> Looks good, price is good compared to the ones at my local TSC, but says for cable only, and I want to use rope. How wide is the pulley wheel?



The groove is 5/8", the diameter is 4", the side plates are 3/16" thick, overall length is 8", the diameter of the top hole is 2". I don't see why rope wouldn't work, although it may slip on the pulley more than wire rope would.


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## Whitespider (Mar 8, 2015)

rwoods said:


> _*If I am wrong, I am sure WS will have no problem correcting me.*_


No need for correction.
A "snatch block" can be used in a dead-head set up... "snatch block" refers to a pulley that opens in some way to facilitate quick threading of the rope, cable, or whatever.
A "dead-head pulley" (snatch block or other) is attached to a non-movable anchor point (the dead-head) allowing a direction change. The biggest advantage is it allows a short rope/cable to pull a tall tree because it puts you out of the way of the fall.... and, if you're using a vehicle, it doesn't lift "up" on it and remove traction. I normally use a length of chain from the dead-head to the pulley... 99 times out of 100 the tree will fall directly on the pulley.


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## zogger (Mar 8, 2015)

Festus said:


> The groove is 5/8", the diameter is 4", the side plates are 3/16" thick, overall length is 8", the diameter of the top hole is 2". I don't see why rope wouldn't work, although it may slip on the pulley more than wire rope would.



Thanks! 1/2" rope should work in there then.


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## rwoods (Mar 8, 2015)

Zogger, make sure the pulley doesn't have any sharp edges or too much side play - either one can mess up a rope. Cable as well but not as easily. Ron


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## zogger (Mar 8, 2015)

rwoods said:


> Zogger, make sure the pulley doesn't have any sharp edges or too much side play - either one can mess up a rope. Cable as well but not as easily. Ron



Thanks. I haven't ordered anything yet, still looking at makes/models, etc. Most likely better off with one designed on purpose for rope, even if it costs more.


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## hseII (Mar 8, 2015)

LogSawyer74 said:


> Thanks. sounds like I would have done it the exact same way. I guess you win some and lose some. Just trying to educamate myself hoping to prevent taking down the barb wire fence and letting all the cows out....




How hard would it be to take down a section of fence, say pull the post, and lay something heavy over the wire.

I'm all about pulling one if needed, but sometimes it is indeed quicker to pull the post, get the wire on the ground, drop the tree, and put the fence back up.


Unless you've got enough manpower and equipment, sometimes it's just more cost effective.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 8, 2015)

hseII said:


> How hard would it be to take down a section of fence, say pull the post, and lay something heavy over the wire.
> 
> I'm all about pulling one if needed, but sometimes it is indeed quicker to pull the post, get the wire on the ground, drop the tree, and put the fence back up.
> 
> ...


Or just wipe out the fence! Lol
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sunlover3/media/Special pictures/Trees/MOV02985.mp4.html?sort=3&o=2


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## nk14zp (Mar 8, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> May not be the right way but on small wood do the world famous sloping back cut to give yourself more room for the wedge. Never tried it on a back leaner but I use that method for normal trees. Back leaner I might be a little scared the wedge would split the tree out with the extra pressure caused by a back leaner


You are right it's not the right way.


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## fordf150 (Mar 8, 2015)

nk14zp said:


> You are right it's not the right way.


i normally refrain from commenting on falling trees since i am just slightly less dangerous than a 5 yr old when it comes to getting them on the ground but i run into plenty of 12-16" trees that once a face is in them and you start the back cut there isnt enough meat left in the tree for a wedge. sloping back cut was suggested by a timber cutter that came in the shop. longer cut gives more room for a wedge and bar to fit. im not cutting back leaners or trying to direct the fall with the wedge...just insuring the tree doesnt sit back and pinch a bar. i am open to suggestions or video if someone wants to post the correct way to do it.


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## rwoods (Mar 8, 2015)

fordf150, two good suggestions from page one: 



HuskStihl said:


> On a back-leaner you ideally don't want a deep face in order to allow more hinge to support the necessary wedging. Your method will be fine until you break a hinge and it goes over backwards. You might try making the back cut first, get a wedge in, put in a 1/3rd depth open face, then keep driving the wedge/sawing the back cut until things go u'r way





mdavlee said:


> Bore straight through the hinge from the back where the wedge will be. It can give you room if the wedge is bottoming out on the hinge. I hate smaller trees like that. No room to work for the most part. The back cut first works pretty good on them.



Ron


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## mdavlee (Mar 8, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> i normally refrain from commenting on falling trees since i am just slightly less dangerous than a 5 yr old when it comes to getting them on the ground but i run into plenty of 12-16" trees that once a face is in them and you start the back cut there isnt enough meat left in the tree for a wedge. sloping back cut was suggested by a timber cutter that came in the shop. longer cut gives more room for a wedge and bar to fit. im not cutting back leaners or trying to direct the fall with the wedge...just insuring the tree doesnt sit back and pinch a bar. i am open to suggestions or video if someone wants to post the correct way to do it.


Back cut first is the best suggestion I can give on wood that size. If they're near balanced then you could get away with the sloping back cut. If you need to push it don't use it as it puts more pressure on the hinge and can break it before you're ready.


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## fordf150 (Mar 8, 2015)

I will try that. Never thought of cutting back cut first. I am just starting to learn and trying not to kill myself in the process. Trial and error plus reading here is my teacher. I don't slope the back cut and wedge it to push it over or control the fall direction. Just keep a balanced tree from setting back down on the bar. Never tried to wedge a tree over with it and as I said if you do I imagine the tree would split out or hinge would break


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## LogSawyer74 (Mar 9, 2015)

hseII said:


> How hard would it be to take down a section of fence, say pull the post, and lay something heavy over the wire.
> 
> I'm all about pulling one if needed, but sometimes it is indeed quicker to pull the post, get the wire on the ground, drop the tree, and put the fence back up.
> 
> ...



Well, the cows are on the other side of the fence and this is the time of year that the cows come running when they hear a vehicle of any kind. They think I'm bringing breakfast lunch and dinner. They usually crowd up directly across the fence from me the whole time I'm cutting.


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## LogSawyer74 (Mar 9, 2015)

Btw, thanks again to everyone for all the suggestions. Really helpful. Think I'll check into the snatch block idea and get me a throw weight. Sounds like I could get some of the bigger ones and leaners I had to leave earlier.


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## nk14zp (Mar 9, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> I will try that. Never thought of cutting back cut first. I am just starting to learn and trying not to kill myself in the process. Trial and error plus reading here is my teacher. I don't slope the back cut and wedge it to push it over or control the fall direction. Just keep a balanced tree from setting back down on the bar. Never tried to wedge a tree over with it and as I said if you do I imagine the tree would split out or hinge would break


Cut a wedge off so it is about the same thickness as your bar.


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## tla100 (Mar 9, 2015)

zogger said:


> I posted about it before, not ashamed to post epic fails..had a nice tulip polar, but leaning towards a pond. whereas the other direction, once felled, I could back right up to it, easy score..so I am gonna face cut it, and then wedge it over. Almost got it, but not quite, it fell the way it wanted to go anyway.
> 
> It was rather..exciting...
> 
> ...



I swear I saw that on youtube.....


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## fordf150 (Mar 9, 2015)

all my wedges are cut off except the ones i havent used yet


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## Chris-PA (Mar 9, 2015)

LogSawyer74 said:


> Well, the cows are on the other side of the fence and this is the time of year that the cows come running when they hear a vehicle of any kind. They think I'm bringing breakfast lunch and dinner. They usually crowd up directly across the fence from me the whole time I'm cutting.


I hate cutting with an audience!


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 9, 2015)

Just say no to high stumps! Lol


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 9, 2015)

Me and my shallow face cut and high stump. Lol


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## svk (Mar 9, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Just say no to high stumps! Lol
> View attachment 410202


I looked at the photo about 4 times before I noticed your face LOL


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## fixit1960 (Mar 9, 2015)

I dropped a 75 foot Siberian elm yesterday that was almost straight up. About 30" across the base. It was on the edge of a filed which, yesterday was a mass of snow, ice and water amidst the corn stalks. No way to pull it even if I could have gotten something in the field. I had to drop it almost straight south as I had a 3 phase power line to the east about 50 feet away. The service to the house is to the north about 40 feet. Trailer and structure to the west. Heaviest part of the tree was to the EAST. The main mass wasn't much off center but enough to make me squirm. Visions of REC showing up on Sunday afternoon to reattach 2 or 3 phases of wire. Me and the neighbors all out of power. It would not have been pretty.
Made the face cut exactly where I wanted it to drop, cut a wedge out about 1/3 into the face. Start the back cut and left about a 3" hinge. Started with 2 10"plastic wedges and drove them all the way in. Made a little crack. Now I'm out of plastic wedges. Go to the shop and get my steel splitting wedges. Drove them in off center of the plastic. The plastic are loose and the trees cracking but not falling. Its moving in the right direction but slowly. Now I'm sweating bullets, too hot for all the gear I have on and ....nerves...So I stack the plastic one on the other and drive them in . I have everything in the crack, about a 3" crack now. Finally it's popping and swaying and over it goes. Exactly where I wanted it. Longest 5 minutes of my life I'll tell you. If that hinge had broke and it went east....well I'm sure the girl friend wouldn't have been as impressed...

So yes you can use steel splitting wedges to drop trees. Just don't underestimate you back cut because at that point you ain't going back in..


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Me and my shallow face cut and high stump. LolView attachment 410203


Why did you chain the saw to the tree ?


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## svk (Mar 9, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> Visions of REC showing up on Sunday afternoon to reattach 2 or 3 phases of wire. Me and the neighbors all out of power. It would not have been pretty.


You have to wonder how often this happens when someone does a whoopsie while felling....


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## fixit1960 (Mar 9, 2015)

svk said:


> You have to wonder how often this happens when someone does a whoopsie while felling....



I work for a power company and I know it would have been VERY expensive. I don't know for sure but doubt whether the home owners insurance would have paid for it. I know I didn't want to find out. We're talking thousands.. 2 trucks, 4 guys, Sunday at double time. Probably 4 hours labor.........that would have been an expensive tree.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 9, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Why did you chain the saw to the tree ?


Mostly because I was making a carrer of taking down that oak and I had to overnight at the base of the stump and I didn't want the 088 to disappear while I was sleeping.


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## zogger (Mar 9, 2015)

tla100 said:


> I swear I saw that on youtube.....



Oh for sure it would have been a funny, how NOT to fell a back leaner! hahahaha! At least with my custom jackie chan moves I didn't get squershed.....


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## fixit1960 (Mar 9, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Mostly because I was making a carrer of taking down that oak and I had to overnight at the base of the stump and I didn't want the 088 to disappear while I was sleeping.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 9, 2015)

Another shallow undercut. Good thing I had the load binder. Lol


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2015)

Why the chains ? The shallow face make them chair ?


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## zogger (Mar 9, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Another shallow undercut. Good thing I had the load binder. LolView attachment 410219



Now which is that, a skinny face cut, or a backcut in advance you can wedge?


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 9, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Why the chains ? The shallow face make them chair ?


So chance of chairing, the 088 cuts faster than the tree can fall. Lol


zogger said:


> Now which is that, a skinny face cut, or a backcut in advance you can wedge?


Both. Lol


----------



## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> So chance of chairing, the 088 cuts faster than the tree can fall. Lol
> 
> Both. Lol



Was told once where a chain belongs ...........Only one you need whips around your bar ,and straps well they belong on .......


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## Oldman47 (Mar 9, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> So chance of chairing, the 088 cuts faster than the tree can fall. Lol
> 
> Both. Lol


Why worry about cutting speed? Use a plunge cut and get your hinge all set up. When you are ready cut the holding wood loose and let her drop with no risk of a barber chair.


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## Hedgerow (Mar 9, 2015)

Oldman47 said:


> Why worry about cutting speed? Use a plunge cut and get your hinge all set up. When you are ready cut the holding wood loose and let her drop with no risk of a barber chair.


Something tells me he had no intention of those trees having a hinge by the time the face clapped shut...
Just a hunch..


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2015)

Hedgerow said:


> Something tells me he had no intention of those trees having a hinge by the time the face clapped shut...
> Just a hunch..


Was it all the veneer logs in other posts ?


----------



## Hedgerow (Mar 9, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Was it all the veneer logs in other posts ?


Hard to say..
But on the good Walnut these guys here are dropping, they'll do about anything to get every inch out of a stick..
From boring the heart out, to chasing the tree off the stump.


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## Hedgerow (Mar 9, 2015)

Oh...
And pounding wedges all day just plain sucks...
Needed at times, but still sucks...
Glad I don't have to do it..


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 9, 2015)

Walnut, yes!


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## Woody912 (Mar 9, 2015)

svk said:


> You have to wonder how often this happens when someone does a whoopsie while felling....


I went to cut a tree because I was afraid it would fall on a power line and then forgot about the power line!!!!! Limb hit the line, stayed up but shut off the power. Very serious embarrassment


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## bitzer (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> I dropped a 75 foot Siberian elm yesterday that was almost straight up. About 30" across the base. It was on the edge of a filed which, yesterday was a mass of snow, ice and water amidst the corn stalks. No way to pull it even if I could have gotten something in the field. I had to drop it almost straight south as I had a 3 phase power line to the east about 50 feet away. The service to the house is to the north about 40 feet. Trailer and structure to the west. Heaviest part of the tree was to the EAST. The main mass wasn't much off center but enough to make me squirm. Visions of REC showing up on Sunday afternoon to reattach 2 or 3 phases of wire. Me and the neighbors all out of power. It would not have been pretty.
> Made the face cut exactly where I wanted it to drop, cut a wedge out about 1/3 into the face. Start the back cut and left about a 3" hinge. Started with 2 10"plastic wedges and drove them all the way in. Made a little crack. Now I'm out of plastic wedges. Go to the shop and get my steel splitting wedges. Drove them in off center of the plastic. The plastic are loose and the trees cracking but not falling. Its moving in the right direction but slowly. Now I'm sweating bullets, too hot for all the gear I have on and ....nerves...So I stack the plastic one on the other and drive them in . I have everything in the crack, about a 3" crack now. Finally it's popping and swaying and over it goes. Exactly where I wanted it. Longest 5 minutes of my life I'll tell you. If that hinge had broke and it went east....well I'm sure the girl friend wouldn't have been as impressed...
> 
> So yes you can use steel splitting wedges to drop trees. Just don't underestimate you back cut because at that point you ain't going back in..


If the tree is leaning ahead, but isn't falling you need to cut the hinge up some more. 3" of hinge on any elm is a lot. Thats why it didn't tip. Also plastic wedges can be stacked. I always carry three. Leave the splittint wedges for splitting.


----------



## bitzer (Mar 10, 2015)

A 10" wedge can tip a 10" tree. Knowing how to the cut the tree up is all you need. 


The depth of face depends on so many different factors. For small timber like that though, you put in your entire backcut, pound a wedge in, and then face it. Just don't zip yer hinge off when matching your face cuts.


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## bitzer (Mar 10, 2015)

Hey John what are those wedges for in the side of the log like that?


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## fixit1960 (Mar 10, 2015)

bitzer said:


> If the tree is leaning ahead, but isn't falling you need to cut the hinge up some more. 3" of hinge on any elm is a lot. Thats why it didn't tip. Also plastic wedges can be stacked. I always carry three. Leave the splittint wedges for splitting.




It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more *limb mass* to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.

And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically. 

I'm starting to figure out your signature.


----------



## slowp (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more *limb mass* to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.
> 
> And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.
> 
> I'm starting to figure out your signature.



It's called "The right tool for the right job." Plastic wedges, or wooden, won't ruin your chain or your day when you accidently cut them. And everybody will have that happen sometime. You can always stack the wedges, as folks have already said, if you need more lift.

I've never ever seen a professional faller use a splitting wedge for falling a tree. Never. Not even "for years".


----------



## fixit1960 (Mar 10, 2015)

No


slowp said:


> It's called "The right tool for the right job." Plastic wedges, or wooden, won't ruin your chain or your day when you accidently cut them. And everybody will have that happen sometime. You can always stack the wedges, as folks have already said, if you need more lift.
> 
> I've never ever seen a professional faller use a splitting wedge for falling a tree. Never. Not even "for years".




No it's called using you resources. I was out of plastic wedges and had two steel splitting wedges that I used. 
What the hell are you people, the *wedge Nazi's*. It's my wedge, my chain, my saw and my tree, I'll use what I have to get the job done. I do not drop trees for a living, consequently I do not have a 1/2 dozen plastic wedges at my disposal. If I did this every day I would have a half dozen plastic, they are considerably lighter and less expensive and will not harm a chain, but I don't so I didn't. Have you ever used a screwdriver for a prybar?


----------



## bitzer (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more *limb mass* to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.
> 
> And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.
> 
> ...



I log for a living buddy. Like production logging, not making firewood logging. 3 inches is a lot of hinge in all hardwoods. In hickory, ash, or white oak its pretty easy to chair them with that thick of a hinge. Elm has long fibers( real fun to split right?) That means it has tremendous holding strength. Elm will typically stay on the stump longer than most hardwoods I know. I've punded another axe in my backcut as a wedge when I didn't have one, but that doesn't make it right. A splitting wedge has no give to it and very little taper. Its really easy to put extra pressure on your hinge and maybe even break it if your not careful. When you stack wedges you are moving them in slowly, one at a time. It gives the tree some time to move and the fibers to bend. I run about 2 gallons thru my saw a day which equates to about 1500-1800 hours of cuttin timber a year. I've put a few trees on the ground.


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> No
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wedge Nazi? Maybe. I don't like to see folks promoting unsafe practices. Continue using your splitting wedge, but don't encourage others to do so.


----------



## fixit1960 (Mar 10, 2015)

slowp said:


> Wedge Nazi? Maybe. I don't like to see folks promoting unsafe practices. Continue using your splitting wedge, but don't encourage others to do so.




I don't feel I was promoting an unsafe practice. Cutting and felling trees is an inherently dangerous occupation/job/hobby. Common sense plays a huge part in the successful completion of this task. I used what I had, knowing the dangers it posed. I knew when I drove them in the back cut I would not safely be able to deepen the back cut unless I got the wedges out first. I was far enough into the process that that wasn't going to happen.

Concerning your above statement, are you telling me that they had plastic felling wedges before they had steel splitting wedges that were used to wedge trees when felling? I maintain the driving factor in the development of plastic felling wedges were due to their lightness primarily. Ease of carrying to and from the timber. The added benefit of not fubaring a chain if the back cut had to be deepened and you inadvertently struck the wedge was just an added plus. My philosophy is know where your chain is at all times in relation to the wedge and you can still deepen that back cut, even using steel. It's about control.

How about you know how deep to make the back cut, and then you wont have to go back in and deepen it. That's being professional. I would question how "professional" a cutter was that regularly had to go back in and deepen the back cut after he pulled his bar out the first time. You should know how much hinge you want/need, cut to that point, wedge behind you if necessary to keep from pinching and then when the bar is out drive the wedge home.


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## zogger (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> No
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, you ain't the only one. I have used steel splitting wedges to fell before, and a ton of home made cut on the site wooden wedges. It's only been since I joined this site that I got plastic wedges, and yep, some are chewed up a scosh 

It doesn't hurt to get more tools as you need them, all of us do that I think, but an immediate need, and you don't have the "proper" equipment, yep, you use what ya got, improvise, MacGuyver it, whatever.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 10, 2015)

slowp said:


> Wedge Nazi? Maybe. I don't like to see folks promoting unsafe practices. Continue using your splitting wedge, but don't encourage others to do so.


Wedge Nazi! Lol


----------



## slowp (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> I don't feel I was promoting an unsafe practice. Cutting and felling trees is an inherently dangerous occupation/job/hobby. Common sense plays a huge part in the successful completion of this task. I used what I had, knowing the dangers it posed. I knew when I drove them in the back cut I would not safely be able to deepen the back cut unless I got the wedges out first. I was far enough into the process that that wasn't going to happen.
> 
> Concerning your above statement, are you telling me that they had plastic felling wedges before they had steel splitting wedges that were used to wedge trees when felling? I maintain the driving factor in the development of plastic felling wedges were due to their lightness primarily. Ease of carrying to and from the timber. The added benefit of not fubaring a chain if the back cut had to be deepened and you inadvertently struck the wedge was just an added plus. My philosophy is know where your chain is at all times in relation to the wedge and you can still deepen that back cut, even using steel. It's about control.
> 
> How about you know how deep to make the back cut, and then you wont have to go back in and deepen it. That's being professional. I would question how "professional" a cutter was that regularly had to go back in and deepen the back cut after he pulled his bar out the first time. You should know how much hinge you want/need, cut to that point, wedge behind you if necessary to keep from pinching and then when the bar is out drive the wedge home.



Oh good grief! Here we go. If you want, why not return to the days of misery whips? Or axes? Or rock hatchets. Some trivia: A standard plastic wedge won't work when cutting with a crosscut saw. Thinner kerf. We do use aluminum wedges for bucking with those. But I wish we had plastic. The aluminum wedges are heavy to pack in. 

Trees can change from what you think they are going to do, to something else in a hurry. There is no standard face cut or even back cut. I'm not a faller but I know that one can misread a tree or have something unforeseen happen. 

Guess you have to be around it a bit to understand. 

Heil Plastic.


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## fixit1960 (Mar 10, 2015)

slowp said:


> Oh good grief! Here we go. If you want, why not return to the days of misery whips? Or axes? Or rock hatchets. Some trivia: A standard plastic wedge won't work when cutting with a crosscut saw. Thinner kerf. We do use aluminum wedges for bucking with those. But I wish we had plastic. The aluminum wedges are heavy to pack in.
> 
> Trees can change from what you think they are going to do, to something else in a hurry. There is no standard face cut or even back cut. I'm not a faller but I know that one can misread a tree or have something unforeseen happen.
> 
> ...




My intention of sharing the original post was just that, to share. I did not include a disclaimer concerning the hazards associated with using a steel wedge for felling. Common sense in my book. Would I have used plastic if I had had more? Yes. Definitely better due to the safety factor and being lighter. Would I, in the same circumstances use the steel felling again? Yes, with caution. The thickness of the splitting wedge at the heel is the same as 2 plastic 10" wedges, so in the end that thickness was what I needed anyway. Taper is a little steeper on the splitting wedges but if you drive them a ways and wait and then go again it gives the tree time to react. Also gives you time to catch your breath. The only issue I had with a wedge spitting out of the cut, was the plastic one.

I am not attempting to say a steel wedge is better, I'm saying if it is all you have and you use it carefully you can get the job done. I don't have the luxury of a supply store that close to me on a Sunday to take off and get more equipment. I do plan on getting some more, but in a pinch I would do it again the same way. 

It did drop exactly where I wanted it with no surprises. I had looked it over and planned the drop for over a week, waiting for a day with no wind and the right amount of available time in my schedule to drop it. I had limbed out a couple of smaller branches I could reach to reduce the off center mass. It wasn't a spur of the moment tree drop. Although I don't cut professionally I have been dropping trees for 30 years. Never had one go bad yet, knock on wood....

And no, I would prefer not to have to use a misery whip. That would be better suited for the forests of Washington State.

And as far as the chastisement concerning the steel wedges, I didn't know I was in the professional logger forum...


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## KiwiBro (Mar 10, 2015)

Hands-up who knew where this thread would head before it even got off the first page?


*edit* I too use steel wedges from time to time. Don't get me wrong; I've about 30 plastic wedges and not afraid to use 'em, but call me a Southern knuckle-dragging, nose-breather all you like because I sometimes like pounding on steel in the bigger trees just for a change. Has a nice sound and feel when you hit'm right and feels terrible when get it wrong. Yes, I even take a sledgehammer to 'em if don't have to pack it all in.


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## KiwiBro (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> I didn't know I was in the professional logger forum...


Dead or injured pros don't get paid and every day they deal with the risk that if they screw up they may not make it home, leaving their families without a brother/sister, father/mother, uncle/aunty, husband/wife, etc. So you can bet your donkey they have a vested interest in doing it right first time, and have learned enough to know that foreseeing and dealing with 'what-if' scenarios in advance is the best way.

So, they have a lot to offer us plebs, if we are so inclined to listen, think and question respectfully. I can almost guarantee their wisdom which they have shared so willingly, has saved my backside, probably a few cars, countless fences and a coupla buildings and at least one house roof over the years. So I'm inclined to listen to 'em, when they feel the need to communicate something.


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## rwoods (Mar 10, 2015)

fixit1960,

On the face of the posts, it looks more like you are baiting for an argument than wanting a legitimate discussion. When some experienced logging folks reply you go berserk. What is up with that? What's your basis to ridicule posters for stating the safe and recommended method? Good practices are not limited to a particular forum. 

If you want a discussion, let's start here:

I must have missed the post that says you *cannot* use steel wedges. The OP said he was using steel *splitting* wedges so I cautioned him to be careful because in my limited experience these wedges are much more prone to quickly spit out. As you pointed out the other dangers should be readily apparent such as hitting the wedge with the saw chain or when bucking having the wedge slide down and hit the saw chain.

Where is it written, you ask. If this was a true question and not simply a statement of your position, I would tell you to try Google where you will find it written by professionals not to use steel splitting wedges - most citing the risk of hitting the saw chain. Many wedging sources don't address splitting wedges or wedge materials because it is assumed one is using a proper falling wedge (which in the good old USA appears now to mean plastic or aluminum, magnesium or some other soft metal). Google "steel falling wedges" if you want to see pictures of the old steel falling wedges; they look pretty much like a modern plastic wedge - not even close in appearance to a splitting wedge. 

Can you use steel splitting wedges? Yes. Should you? Rarely, if ever. Can you cut without any PPE? Yes. Should you? Rarely, if ever. I have done both, but just because you, I and many others have done it doesn't mean one should. 

You will also find it written by some that wooden wedges shouldn't be used due to reliability concerns. I doubt there are many here who have not had to improvise with a wood wedge at least once in their careers when bucking and a few while falling. Do I recommend routine use of wood wedges for falling? Absolutely not. Do some take great pride in making and using wood wedges? Apparently so.


Chill and be safe.

Ron


----------



## CUCV (Mar 10, 2015)

You can get alot of lift by doing this, reduced chance of spitting out a wedge than traditionally stacked wedges and there are three great locations for steel splitting wedges


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 10, 2015)

I finaly got that oak tree on the ground.


----------



## rwoods (Mar 10, 2015)

CUCV, do you rely on the wedge to split out the wood slice, or do you plunge cut the sides similar to the Palm tree tongue and groove cut?

Ron


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 10, 2015)

CUCV said:


> You can get alot of lift by doing this, reduced chance of spitting out a wedge than traditionally stacked wedges and there are three great locations for steel splitting wedges


WTF? Lol


----------



## CUCV (Mar 10, 2015)

rwoods said:


> CUCV, do you rely on the wedge to split out the wood slice, or do you plunge cut the sides similar to the Palm tree tongue and groove cut?
> 
> Ron


Just plunge cuts for the wedges nothing vertical on the sides, works great.


----------



## Woody912 (Mar 10, 2015)

CUCV said:


> You can get alot of lift by doing this, reduced chance of spitting out a wedge than traditionally stacked wedges and there are three great locations for steel splitting wedges



Are you really getting any lift from those bottom 3 wedges?


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 10, 2015)

Rock hatchet weilding wedge Nazis. Too funny!


----------



## fixit1960 (Mar 10, 2015)

Woody912 said:


> Are you really getting any lift from those bottom 3 wedges?



That was my thought also. I think it would be more effective if you plunge cut along both sides vertically to allow the wood to lift as the wedges were drove in.

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## fixit1960 (Mar 11, 2015)

rwoods said:


> fixit1960,
> 
> On the face of the posts, it looks more like you are baiting for an argument than wanting a legitimate discussion. When some experienced logging folks reply you go berserk. What is up with that? What's your basis to ridicule posters for stating the safe and recommended method? Good practices are not limited to a particular forum.
> 
> ...




No Ron, I wasn't baiting anyone. I was simply sharing a story. If you want to spank someone maybe go back to post #80 and read bitzers post. This posted with no intro, I have no idea who he is or his experience and read his signature.  He criticizes my hinge thickness and explains why it wasn't dropping as fast as he evidently thought it should and then tells me in no uncertain terms you should never use splitting wedges for felling. Mind you, the tree dropped with no issues, where I wanted it. How would you react? Or maybe you wouldn't, but that's not me. I don't brag, but I don't like to be criticized when I don't feel it was warranted, if the tree had broke the hinge and landed on the wires, ok wail away on me, I have it coming.

slowp is a different story, we go back a number of months and I respect her opinion, although I disagree with most of them. We have had a number of conversations on different topics. I believe slowp was stirring the pot a little. 

In any event their points were noted, as I posted in the last one. Where I grew up you used what you had. Common sense prevailed and if it wasn't exactly the right tool you were careful to not get hurt or destroy what you were working on.

The wedge nazi comment, well I thought that was deserved.  And was in fun..


----------



## CUCV (Mar 11, 2015)

Yes I get lots of lift out of the bottom three wedges. The wedges break out the wood but the way it breaks out relative to the grain it really helps keep the wedges from spitting out.


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 11, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Was it all the veneer logs in other posts ?


Ya, the butt logs were veneer, except for the ash.


----------



## olyman (Mar 11, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more *limb mass* to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.
> 
> And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.
> 
> I'm starting to figure out your signature.


----------



## olyman (Mar 11, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> No
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 YES, they are the wedge Nazis..and Nazis of every other type also..never made a mistake,,,and can tell you all about yours..........


----------



## fixit1960 (Mar 11, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Ya, the butt logs were veneer, except for the ash.View attachment 410936




Boy gypo, your treading on thin ice on this forum with a pic like that. Sure to bring out those that feel your promoting bad safety behavior . You could fall and hurt yourself then who would cut down that nice tree?


----------



## olyman (Mar 11, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> Boy gypo, your treading on thin ice on this forum with a pic like that. Sure to bring out those that feel your promoting bad safety behavior . You could fall and hurt yourself then who would cut down that nice tree?


 the wedge Nazis..will be along directly...........................


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> i normally refrain from commenting on falling trees since i am just slightly less dangerous than a 5 yr old when it comes to getting them on the ground but *i run into plenty of 12-16" trees that once a face is in them and you start the back cut there isnt enough meat left in the tree for a wedge. sloping back cut was suggested by a timber cutter that came in the shop. longer cut gives more room for a wedge and bar to fit. im not cutting back leaners or trying to direct the fall with the wedge...just insuring the tree doesnt sit back and pinch a bar.* i am open to suggestions or video if someone wants to post the correct way to do it.


 


mdavlee said:


> Back cut first is the best suggestion I can give on wood that size. *If they're near balanced then you could get away with the sloping back cut.* If you need to push it don't use it as it puts more pressure on the hinge and can break it before you're ready.


 
Sorry guys, but I cannot believe I just read advice FOR a sloped back cut. If you cant manage to get a wedge in 12-16" diameter wood then I think you should consider a new technique.

Pounding wedges in a sloped back cut will stress the hinge horizontally and less force from the wedge will go into the direction to help tip the tree towards your face cut.


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## Woody912 (Mar 11, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Sorry guys, but I cannot believe I just read advice FOR a sloped back cut. If you cant manage to get a wedge in 12-16" diameter wood then I think you should consider a new technique.
> 
> Pounding wedges in a sloped back cut will stress the hinge horizontally and less force from the wedge will go into the direction to help tip the tree towards your face cut.


how 'bout when there is a net wire fence grown into the back of the tree where you want to make your back cut?


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

Woody912 said:


> how 'bout when there is a net wire fence grown into the back of the tree where you want to make your back cut?


 
Go higher or lower.


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## fordf150 (Mar 11, 2015)

it was advocated by an admitted hack(me) on that 1 in 20 tree that is 12" diameter and balanced. Not for the purpose of wedging a tree over or directing a fall but simply for the purpose of not pinching a bar. I was given another alternative that might work and i am going to try it. If there is a better way please explain it or better yet find me a video. last spring we cut a couple hundred trees that are in that size range and will probably do twice that many this year so a pulley system or sacrificing a wedge on a tree is a time consuming and costly option as we cut on sunday afternoons first thing in the spring before the leaves come on then we are done for the year. we already have a 75ft by 1000ft section that probably 90% of the trees need pulled to insure they dont land on the fence. 

My step dad cut timber off and on for the last 40 yrs...he gets them on the ground and has only had one incident with a widow maker and i always thought he was pretty good but i realize he does stuff his way and maybe not the right way. EXAMPLE 3 weeks ago we went and cut 2 big oaks for one of my firewood customers. both landed within inches of where he wanted them but the second one was 50" or bigger and he didnt put a face cut in it. The timber cutters that come in the shop are all old timers that have been in the woods their whole lives and a couple of them only use steel wedges. Sloping cut was suggested by 2 different cutters for that size tree and that situation 

Picture is of the smaller of the 2 trees that we cut


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 11, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> Boy gypo, your treading on thin ice on this forum with a pic like that. Sure to bring out those that feel your promoting bad safety behavior . You could fall and hurt yourself then who would cut down that nice tree?


Lol, that was a 24" cherry worth over 2G's. It had a double crown and would have split when the crown hit the ground reducing it to firewood, hence the load binder.


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

Last one is not my favorite example, I dont agree with using 2 wedges when you can use one. Its almost the same cut as the second video. Also the cuts can be made horizontal and not sloped to the middle. Notch your face, do the back cut but only through ~2/3's, set you wedge and go to the other side and complete your back cut. Thats basically what the second and third vid are showing. The first video is what I use normally, what more do ya need..?


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## fixit1960 (Mar 11, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Last one is not my favorite example, I dont agree with using 2 wedges when you can use one. Its almost the same cut as the second video. Also the cuts can be made horizontal and not sloped to the middle. Notch your face, do the back cut but only through ~2/3's, set you wedge and go to the other side and complete your back cut. Thats basically what the second and third vid are showing. The first video is what I use normally, what more do ya need..?





Looks like a good alternative to a sloping back cut. Did anyone else notice the steel wedges  in the 3rd video. The shame!!


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## HuskStihl (Mar 11, 2015)

Prolly not my place, but its never stopped me before......

Mr. Fixit. You posted a story about falling a tree. In this story you left a skybound tree unattended to go get another wedge. This straight tree was skybound because you left three inches of holding wood between the face and the back cut. An experienced production faller, who happens to be the guy the other fallers on here go to for advice, told you that 3 inches of holding wood is too much on a tree that size. You then insulted him, and insisted that your technique and logic were sound. This site is losing its experts. There are a few saw builders left that are happy to help with advice, and several arborists and loggers who will try to point the less experienced in a safer direction, but their numbers are dwindling. I suspect it is because every day, there are guys who refuse to take well meaning advice from pro's and just want to argue. I get that you told your falling story with pride in a job well done, and did not get the response you expected, but a little bit of humility would have gone a long way in keeping yet another good thread from getting derailed with ********


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## fordf150 (Mar 11, 2015)

thank you...when the mud dries up and we get in the woods i will give those a try


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## fordf150 (Mar 11, 2015)

so far in our off season of cutting i have managed to pick up a couple new things to try for some of the problems i have had in the past. that is the reason i am here


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> Looks like a good alternative to a sloping back cut. Did anyone else notice the steel wedges  in the 3rd video. The shame!!


 Yeah, the third one was hardly worth posting. I think they were aluminum wedges BTW. First video is straight forward and less to go wrong.


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> thank you...when the mud dries up and we get in the woods i will give those a try


 
Please do and ditch the sloped back cut. Pick up some short wedges too for the smaller diameter wood also.


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## Gologit (Mar 11, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> Prolly not my place, but its never stopped me before......
> 
> Mr. Fixit. You posted a story about falling a tree. In this story you left a skybound tree unattended to go get another wedge. This straight tree was skybound because you left three inches of holding wood between the face and the back cut. An experienced production faller, who happens to be the guy the other fallers on here go to for advice, told you that 3 inches of holding wood is too much on a tree that size. You then insulted him, and insisted that your technique and logic were sound. This site is losing its experts. There are a few saw builders left that are happy to help with advice, and several arborists and loggers who will try to point the less experienced in a safer direction, but their numbers are dwindling. I suspect it is because every day, there are guys who refuse to take well meaning advice from pro's and just want to argue. I get that you told your falling story with pride in a job well done, and did not get the response you expected, but a little bit of humility would have gone a long way in keeping yet another good thread from getting derailed with ********



Well said.


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## bitzer (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks Jon, Bob and Miss P.

The firewood boys got it all figured out as usual. Carry on.

All that who-haa with the boring and wedging in small timber is total ******** by the way. Backcut, pound wedge, face, pound wedge, drop. Or slam it with another sob. No time in this line of work for a lot of non-sense.


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## mdavlee (Mar 11, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Sorry guys, but I cannot believe I just read advice FOR a sloped back cut. If you cant manage to get a wedge in 12-16" diameter wood then I think you should consider a new technique.
> 
> Pounding wedges in a sloped back cut will stress the hinge horizontally and less force from the wedge will go into the direction to help tip the tree towards your face cut.


I didn't say use it. I said he could get away with it if he's just slapping a wedge in for insurance of not pinching the bar. 

On elm you can have a 3/4" thick hinge and it is still tough.


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## mdavlee (Mar 11, 2015)




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## Hedgerow (Mar 11, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> so far in our off season of cutting i have managed to pick up a couple new things to try for some of the problems i have had in the past. that is the reason i am here


I'm only here for the free beer...


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 11, 2015)

Hedgerow said:


> I'm only here for the free beer...


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## fordf150 (Mar 11, 2015)

pepsi for me...i dont drink


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> I didn't say use it. I said he could get away with it if he's just slapping a wedge in for insurance of not pinching the bar.
> 
> On elm you can have a 3/4" thick hinge and it is still tough.



Your not discouraging the use of it either, just accepting unnecessary risk. I'm not trying to beat you up on what you said. If you want to help the feller out give home the proper technique. If you were in the field with him and saw him using sloped back cut would you correct him or say "why the hell not" and turn a shoulder..?


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## mdavlee (Mar 11, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Your not discouraging the use of it either, just accepting unnecessary risk. I'm not trying to beat you up on what you said. If you want to help the feller out give home the proper technique. If you were in the field with him and saw him using sloped back cut would you correct him or say "why the hell not" and turn a shoulder..?


If you noticed the posts before I told him what I do with a back cut first. He's receptive to help and some arent. If i was in person i would try my best to show him a better way.


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> If you noticed the posts before I told him what I do with a back cut first. He's receptive to help and some arent. If i was in person i would try my best to show him a better way.


Right on man.


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## Erik B (Mar 11, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Last one is not my favorite example, I dont agree with using 2 wedges when you can use one. Its almost the same cut as the second video. Also the cuts can be made horizontal and not sloped to the middle. Notch your face, do the back cut but only through ~2/3's, set you wedge and go to the other side and complete your back cut. Thats basically what the second and third vid are showing. The first video is what I use normally, what more do ya need..?



Was the guy using a humbolt cut on the first video?


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## Marshy (Mar 11, 2015)

Erik B said:


> Was the guy using a humbolt cut on the first video?


When he described it with the sticks it was an open face cut but what he actually cut appear more like a slightly sloppy conventional cut.


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## 1 stihl nut (Mar 11, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> I get that you told your falling story with pride in a job well done, and did not get the response you expected, but a little bit of humility would have gone a long way in keeping yet another good thread from getting derailed with ********



I agree with what you're saying, but it does take at least two egos for any needless argument. I can stand back and see where each side is coming from. I hope no one is losing any sleep over this one.

We all gotta chill a little.


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## Gologit (Mar 11, 2015)

Erik B said:


> Was the guy using a humbolt cut on the first video?


 That guy wouldn't know a Humboldt if it bit him on the ankle.


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## fordf150 (Mar 11, 2015)

I'm always willing to learn especially on something I am horrible at. I have multiple reasons to learn the proper way. Most important is I don't want crushed by a tree. Second is in the shop I have people constantly asking for advice and I want to give the right advice and a safe way of doing it.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 11, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Was told once where a chain belongs ...........Only one you need whips around your bar ,and straps well they belong on .......


.......a bra


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 11, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> .......a bra


Oh! Now I get it! Lol


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## Hedgerow (Mar 11, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Your not discouraging the use of it either, just accepting unnecessary risk. I'm not trying to beat you up on what you said. If you want to help the feller out give home the proper technique. If you were in the field with him and saw him using sloped back cut would you correct him or say "why the hell not" and turn a shoulder..?


Pfffttt...
I'd show him how to stump jump the SOB and go back to the truck...

Mike was talkin theory, not proper...
I didn't read it any other way...


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## Hedgerow (Mar 11, 2015)

Gologit said:


> That guy wouldn't know a Humboldt if it bit him on the ankle.


Hi Bob...


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## Hedgerow (Mar 11, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> .......a bra


I think randy thought they belonged on a ma'am, that thought she was a bro'...
But I may be mistaken..
Just sayin...


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## rwoods (Mar 11, 2015)

fixit1960,

Wasn't trying to offend you. In fact I would have posted a "like" to your post #104 except for the part about Bitzer's post. I re-read it and founded no basis for me to "spank" him as I agree 100% with his comments (except the elm hinge and that is only because I have no experience with elm). However, having read many of his posts I would bet a steak dinner that he is right. His post obliviously struck you wrong but I don't think that his intent was to embarrass you. It strikes me wrong every time someone I don't know comments negatively about a less than sharp chain shown on some video, probably because I am both guilty of using dull chains and being a poor sharpener. But nonetheless these type posts remind me how important a sharp chain can be.

I'm glad to read you were just bantering with slowp and having a little fun the "wedge Nazi" comment. Without a doubt I am sure that she and I would have different views on many things just like I would with almost anyone. I am, however, weary of folks (especially "grown men") attacking her with respect to her knowledge, beliefs or opinions. Glad to hear you are not one of them.

I am also glad you weren't picking a fight as I assumed. HuskStihl summed up my initial reaction better than I could.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Now back to the regular programing. As a firewood hack I say the _Progressive Farmer_ should have fact checked the "expert" in their safety video despite his title and pretty Husky outfit. His Step 4 comment that the depth of the face cut is not important and only the length of the face cut and the 70* angle are important was too much for me. Maybe his 80% of the diameter length rule gets you back to the same place as the general 1/3 of the diameter deep rule but it sure didn't on his sample. How many of us can accurately judge 80% and remember where those points are without marking the tree? Who knows, maybe he thinks the readers of _Progressive Farmers_ only cut plate size trees. Or that one rule will fit all the trees a _PF _reader would fall. If he thinks either, he would be wrong. 

Any one here that use a length rule instead of a depth rule for making face cuts (or face notches as the expert calls them)?

Any one here that only makes 70* face cuts?

Moving on, I bet some of you could put five to ten similar sized trees safely on the ground in the same actual time he spent falling that one tree with all the fiddling around he did. I like this little guy better. He just goes to work and gets the job done.

Ron


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## KiwiBro (Mar 11, 2015)

The first cut is the deepest.


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## rwoods (Mar 11, 2015)

I'm sure it hurts the most too as the initial shock sets in. Ron


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## fixit1960 (Mar 12, 2015)

rwoods said:


> fixit1960,
> 
> Wasn't trying to offend you. In fact I would have posted a "like" to your post #104 except for the part about Bitzer's post. I re-read it and founded no basis for me to "spank" him as I agree 100% with his comments (except the elm hinge and that is only because I have no experience with elm). However, having read many of his posts I would bet a steak dinner that he is right. His post obliviously struck you wrong but I don't think that his intent was to embarrass you. It strikes me wrong every time someone I don't know comments negatively about a less than sharp chain shown on some video, probably because I am both guilty of using dull chains and being a poor sharpener. But nonetheless these type posts remind me how important a sharp chain can be.
> 
> ...




Okay, I've irritated some people , it wasn't my intent. To those I've offended I apologize.
Also sorry for the derail on the thread.
To bitzer and slowp, I'm sorry if you were offended. No malice intended.

Carry on..


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## bitzer (Mar 12, 2015)

Don't worry I wasn't offended! 

I'll run my mouth again next time I get a chance and I'd buy the steak dinner Ron. 

I like cuttin timber. Thats why I chose it as a profession. I anticipate situations that could kill or maim me everyday. Sometimes things get real close. It takes a certain type of person with the right amount of confidence and wariness to fall timber safely and efficiently. Its a different ballgame when you cut trees to feed your family. I will always give my advice to anyone on here or in the world about laying out trees. Whether they like it or not. I would have said the same thing if fixit1960 was standing right in front of me. Its all about stump time.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 12, 2015)

bitzer said:


> Don't worry I wasn't offended!
> 
> I'll run my mouth again next time I get a chance and I'd buy the steak dinner Ron.
> 
> I like cuttin timber. Thats why I chose it as a profession. I anticipate situations that could kill or maim me everyday. Sometimes things get real close. It takes a certain type of person with the right amount of confidence and wariness to fall timber safely and efficiently. Its a different ballgame when you cut trees to feed your family. I will always give my advice to anyone on here or in the world about laying out trees. Whether they like it or not. I would have said the same thing if fixit1960 was standing right in front of me. Its all about stump time.


+1 i sure wish more around here would listen, another one gone yesterday.


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## bitzer (Mar 12, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> +1 i sure wish more around here would listen, another one gone yesterday.


Logger?


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 12, 2015)

yep

not related to me. i bought a skidder from him some years ago.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

fixit1960 said:


> Okay, I've irritated some people , it wasn't my intent. To those I've offended I apologize.
> Also sorry for the derail on the thread.
> To bitzer and slowp, I'm sorry if you were offended. No malice intended.
> 
> Carry on..


Sounds like he's one of us.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

You gotta give a lot to a guy who tries, learns and makes mistakes. That is how we got where we are, good, bad or indifferent.
It's all about danger, but it's more about passion.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

pic.


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## KiwiBro (Mar 12, 2015)

wedges are for newbs and farmers. The rest of us pros use:


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

KiwiBro said:


> wedges are for newbs and farmers. The rest of us pro use:



I didn't even watch the mov but I could tell it was just another limp wristed Norway tool. 
Enter: Sawtroll


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## KiwiBro (Mar 12, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> I didn't even watch the mov but I could tell it was just another limp wristed Norway tool.
> Enter: Sawtroll


But it has great balance and greater kw/kg power to weight ratio. Well it would it if was a husky.


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## Fubar (Mar 12, 2015)

i am confused now , is it felling or falling ? or dose it change with pre or past tense ?


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2015)

Fubar said:


> i am confused now , is it felling or falling ? or dose it change with pre or past tense ?



I don't know about the rest of the country but out here it's falling. And fallers. Screw grammar.


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## Fubar (Mar 12, 2015)

Gologit said:


> I don't know about the rest of the country but out here it's falling. And fallers. Screw grammar.


i was just curious , as to what the correct pronunciation is , or if changed depending on what the case was , or in a different part of the country ,i was told it was felling and fellers by the loggers and professional Arborist's in my area , and they would get quite ticked off if someone said fallers ,i also thought it might slang cause there were lots of other catchy words they used , like , blockers , grapplers and bucklers ?


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 12, 2015)

Faller 






Feller


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## Hedgerow (Mar 12, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> +1 i sure wish more around here would listen, another one gone yesterday.


Sorry to hear that Mike..


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

Falling:
The state of mind and feelings you get when you begin to feel love for a person you are sexually attracted to. It puts you into a helpless state where you want the high and can get into trouble chasing it because you become blind to everthing else - hence the term Falling.


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## Marshy (Mar 12, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Falling:
> *The state of mind and feelings you get when running your Husqvarna and begin to feel love for it.* It puts you into a helpless state where you want the high and can get into trouble chasing it because you become blind to everthing else - hence the term Falling.


 
Fixed it for ya.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Fixed it for ya.


Lol, much better definition.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

I like this face cut.


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## Oldman47 (Mar 12, 2015)

I watched that video with a more or less open mind. What I saw was not a revolutionary way of dealing with felling direction but a way to deal with it under ideal conditions. What struck me immediately was that it relied so much on the state of the ground where you would do your felling. If I never saw any soft surfaces around a fall, it might just be great. On the other hand, when I need to make a fall under less than ideal conditions I will trust a falling wedge over that contraption every time. I may not be able to always get an ideal set up for a falling wedge but my bet is that it will happen far more often than having ideal ground surface conditions.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 12, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 411275
> I like this face cut.View attachment 411275


what kind of axe is this?


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

It doesn't matter what you use for falling wedges as long as it works. If it doesn't work though, it would be better to get hit in the thigh with flying plastic. But you can't argue with success. Anyhow I'm sure a few will try.


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## rwoods (Mar 12, 2015)

Grim Repair said:


> It doesn't matter what you use for falling wedges as long as it works. If it doesn't work though, it would be better to get hit in the thigh with flying plastic. But you can't argue with success. Anyhow I'm sure a few will try.



I am not too concerned about getting hit by the wedge - I don't want a tree falling backwards after it spits a wedge.

Ron


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

Better for them to fall off forward. Least it works for us.


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## rwoods (Mar 12, 2015)

Fall or fell etc. I think this is a regional thing. I have switched to fall and faller so the WC fellows wouldn't chastise me. BTW are they fallows instead of fellows.  Ron


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 12, 2015)

rwoods said:


> I am not too concerned about getting hit by the wedge - I don't want a tree falling backwards after it spits a wedge.
> 
> Ron


of course..........i can tell you that a saw can fling a wedge at your thigh pretty hard.


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

Here rwoods, trees fall. It's one case of a screwed up verb, but we fall trees. Not sure about another region and been a few beers ago since I cared.


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2015)

rwoods said:


> I am not too concerned about getting hit by the wedge - I don't want a tree falling backwards after it spits a wedge.
> 
> Ron


It happens. Improper wedging is sometimes worse than no wedging at all. A wedge will only do so much and when you get to the point where you're stacking wedges you're asking a lot. I've done it and I'll undoubtably do it again but it's usually because I read a tree wrong and I'm trying to make up for it.
Too much lift will sometimes break a hinge before you're ready for it. When that happens you've lost every bit of control over the tree and gravity takes over. Run.
If you're all sawed up in the back cut and you're wedged up tight and nothing is moving just wait a minute and see if anything happens. See if the tree is rocking on the wedges. Sometimes it's hard to see but any little bit of wind will make a difference.
You can keep trimming your hinge down but beyond a certain point...and that point differs with every tree...you're gambling.
All this talk about the hinge being set at a certain percentage of the tree's diameter and if you do _this_ the tree will always do _that _is absolute crap... pure and simple. If every tree was exactly the same maybe making hard and fast rules would work. Our job would sure be easier if things worked that way.
One way that I've found to start moving a tree that stalls out is to trim a little...very little... off the hinge on one side to where you then have a tapered hinge. Wedge it but don't hammer the wedge tight. I don't usually agree with wedging anywhere but in the desired direction of fall but in this case it usuallly works to get the tree started. Usually. Watch your wind. Just be ready to run because with that piece of the hinge gone, the rest of the hinge tapered, and your original wedges driven tight that tree will go where it wants to.
Hey, every once in awhile one goes sideways on you. Once in awhile you'll cross the lead. It shouldn't happen very often though. Makes the skidder operator grumpy.


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

Reading the tree is like surface preparation for a finish coat. It's the series of dates before the marriage especially in a tight stem population, near high value targets and doubly so in broad trees. Do it enough times and she's old hat but never to be considered unnecessary. My Daddy made us sound them with an axe and I still do.


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## nk14zp (Mar 12, 2015)

Grim Repair said:


> Reading the tree is like surface preparation for a finish coat. It's the series of dates before the marriage especially in a tight stem population, near high value targets and doubly so in broad trees. Do it enough times and she's old hat but never to be considered unnecessary. My Daddy made us sound them with an axe and I still do.


It's also one of those things you can't learn from tv or the internet. And your life depends on it even if you are a part time fire wood cutter.


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## rwoods (Mar 12, 2015)

Sorry, Grim Repair, I am not joining the "so long as it works camp". My original post (#15) and my response to you (post #169) were both directed towards the use of steel splitting wedges which are typically much narrower but easily twice as high as a plastic falling wedge. If I have to wedge that high, I for sure don't want it spit out. 


Gologit, I try to avoid stacking wedges and when I do I try to have twin stacks in case I have a blow out. I alternate blows as necessary to try and maintain tension on both stacks. I don't know if this is the correct way so I am ready to stand corrected.

I haven't cut enough to have had the pleasure of busting a hinge while wedging but I believe I understand how this could happen. For doubly sure, I don't want a hinge-less tree falling toward me.

Ron


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

Nothing to be sorry about Ron. You can't argue with success.


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## rwoods (Mar 12, 2015)

Grim Repair, I don't buy that argument either (insert here beating a dead horse emoticon). But hey, I figured out the faller feller thing this evening thanks to the Bailey's flyer I just got. Professional Fallers must use Stihls as Bailey's lists the Husky 3120XP as a Professional Felling saw.  Ron


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

Might be Ron. In the big woods of deep south tell them to get you a Husky and they'll bring you an eskimo dog.


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## zogger (Mar 12, 2015)

rwoods said:


> Grim Repair, I don't buy that argument either (insert here beating a dead horse emoticon). But hey, I figured out the faller feller thing this evening thanks to the Bailey's flyer I just got. Professional Fallers must use Stihls as Bailey's lists the Husky 3120XP as a Professional Felling saw.  Ron



I think we'uns need our own vernacular for this slice of the country. I propose "tree tippin" over them other awkward bad tensed up werds.


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## rwoods (Mar 12, 2015)

Grim Repair said:


> Might be Ron. In the big woods of deep south tell them to get you a Husky and they'll bring you an eskimo dog.



When I was last in the deep South, McCullochs and Homelites ruled. I still run old Macs.



zogger said:


> I think we'uns need our own vernacular for this slice of the country. I propose "tree tippin" over them other awkward bad tensed up werds.



For some reason tree tipping makes me think of cow tipping. I've never heard of directional tree tipping. Just as well as plain old tree tipping probably describes a lot of us. 

Ron


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## HuskStihl (Mar 12, 2015)

GR=BA


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## Grim Repair (Mar 12, 2015)

rwoods said:


> I still run old Macs.



So do I. Stihls didn't take over till after I got my helicopter license......... But old McCulloch still makes trees shiver.


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## rwoods (Mar 12, 2015)

Jon, your algebra may be correct. Thought the same but if he behaves I don't care. Ron


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2015)

rwoods said:


> Gologit, I try to avoid stacking wedges and when I do I try to have twin stacks in case I have a blow out. I alternate blows as necessary to try and maintain tension on both stacks. I don't know if this is the correct way so I am ready to stand corrected
> 
> Ron



You're fine, nothing to correct there. Just keep both sets of wedges as even as you can so that the pressure stays the same.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

Gologit said:


> It happens. Improper wedging is sometimes worse than no wedging at all. A wedge will only do so much and when you get to the point where you're stacking wedges you're asking a lot. I've done it and I'll undoubtably do it again but it's usually because I read a tree wrong and I'm trying to make up for it.
> Too much lift will sometimes break a hinge before you're ready for it. When that happens you've lost every bit of control over the tree and gravity takes over. Run.
> If you're all sawed up in the back cut and you're wedged up tight and nothing is moving just wait a minute and see if anything happens. See if the tree is rocking on the wedges. Sometimes it's hard to see but any little bit of wind will make a difference.
> You can keep trimming your hinge down but beyond a certain point...and that point differs with every tree...you're gambling.
> ...


Got any pics Bob? A picture is worth a thousand words.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 12, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Got any pics Bob? A picture is worth a thousand words.


Unfortunately, these were hard to pack into the woods.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 12, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> Unfortunately, these were hard to pack into the woods.
> View attachment 411420


Ha, I always got a kick out of the armchair loggers who are good at mouthing the words but never show anything to substantiate their bullchit. What a depressing legacy.


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## bitzer (Mar 12, 2015)

John why did you wrap chains around them trees?


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 13, 2015)

bitzer said:


> John why did you wrap chains around them trees?


It was mostly because of lack of confidence when I didn't understand a Dutchman and because the trees were big bucks and didn't want butt shatter or fibre pull. The chain binder just prevented butt shatter and ensured that a butt log was high grade instead of fuel wood. I don't think I'd chain the same tree today.


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## USMC615 (Mar 13, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> Unfortunately, these were hard to pack into the woods.
> View attachment 411420



Any man in this tree business who has roughly 1400 more 'likes', than he does actual posts...speaks zero ******** in my book. Gotta tip my hat to ya. I'm no logger, woodsman by trade, just side stuff...I enjoy reading your no frills, no spills advice... Gypo Logger the same. Good reading gentleman!!


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 13, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> Any man in this tree business who has roughly 1400 more 'likes', than he does actual posts...speaks zero ******** in my book. Gotta tip my hat to ya. I'm no logger, woodsman by trade, just side stuff...I enjoy reading your no frills, no spills advice... Gypo Logger the same. Good reading gentleman!!


That guy is smarter than most doctors ,he has taught me a lot


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 13, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> Any man in this tree business who has roughly 1400 more 'likes', than he does actual posts...speaks zero ******** in my book. Gotta tip my hat to ya. I'm no logger, woodsman by trade, just side stuff...I enjoy reading your no frills, no spills advice... Gypo Logger the same. Good reading gentleman!!


The likes really dont mean a lot. Its more about putting your mouth where your saw has been.


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## Fubar (Mar 13, 2015)

Grim Repair said:


> So do I. Stihls didn't take over till after I got my helicopter license......... But old McCulloch still makes trees shiver.


bring on the snakes... GO DEVIL... LOL


----------



## Gypo Logger (Mar 13, 2015)




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## rwoods (Mar 13, 2015)

The lack of pictures mean nothing here. It has been my experience that most folks of my generation have few to none. We just work the job - not photo opportunities. Ron


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## Marshy (Mar 13, 2015)

Dont judge a persons quality based on their likes. At my current rate you'll think I'm an expert in a few more months. Every time I make a comment in the Scrounging thread I get 5-6 likes. Just sayin...



Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 411441


 
Nice view! WTH is that in the sky, looks like a tear in the space-time continuum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime)


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## USMC615 (Mar 13, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Dont judge a persons quality based on their likes. At my current rate you'll think I'm an expert in a few more months. Every time I make a comment in the Scrounging thread I get 5-6 likes. Just sayin...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice view! WTH is that in the sky, looks like a tear in the space-time continuum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime)



I understand what you're saying Marshy and you're right...I find all you folks information, knowledge and advice in this business great info to read and try to learn from. You folks can certainly distinguish better, safer, alternative ways to go about handling different tree situations than I can, I assure you. It's all good, informative reading and trying to soak up a little knowledge along the way...to all, keep up the good thread.


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## USMC615 (Mar 13, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 411441



Not your typical backyard, subdivision view there. Nice!!


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## HuskStihl (Mar 13, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> Any man in this tree business who has roughly 1400 more 'likes', than he does actual posts...speaks zero ******** in my book. Gotta tip my hat to ya. I'm no logger, woodsman by trade, just side stuff...I enjoy reading your no frills, no spills advice... Gypo Logger the same. Good reading gentleman!!


Sir, if this post was directed towards me then.....
1) thank you
2) you are a terrible judge of a man's character/knowledge

If this was directed at Gologit, then u'r assessment was spot on


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## mainewoods (Mar 13, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 411441



Yukon mosquito, up close and personal!


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 13, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 411441


That must be Nome ,i see a ufo in the sky .


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## nk14zp (Mar 13, 2015)

Skeeter logging.


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## Hedgerow (Mar 13, 2015)

mainewoods said:


> Yukon mosquito, up close and personal!


Bingo!!!

You beat me to it...

But it looks like ole gypo dun cut all the trees down...


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## svk (Mar 13, 2015)

I can't believe this thread is still going....


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## rwoods (Mar 13, 2015)

svk said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going....



The question is where is it going? 

Ron


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## Marshy (Mar 13, 2015)

rwoods said:


> The question is where is it going?
> 
> Ron


How deep should I make my back cut?


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 13, 2015)

Marshy said:


> How deep should I make my back cut?


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## msvold (Mar 15, 2015)

Hey, just wanted to let you all know that I used some advice from this thread for a dead pine along a fence line. As I assessed the situation, I thought about making my back cut first due to this thread. So that's what I did, back cut, putting wedges (plastic) in, then made the face cut, finished the back cut, tapped the wedges, fell where I wanted. Told my wife, the credit goes to this thread.
Even though this thread has stalled, at a minimum it lead to one safe tree on the ground.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 15, 2015)

this^^^ is the only reason for this thread


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 15, 2015)

and.....Bob, if every tree was the same we would been hauling giant dowels lol. and i'd prolly got bored with logging long ago.


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## Gologit (Mar 16, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> and.....Bob, if every tree was the same we would been hauling giant dowels lol. and i'd prolly got bored with logging long ago.


 
LOL...that's what a lot of our logs are like but I never did get bored. Aggravated sometimes, but never bored. They might look the same but they sure don't act the same.


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## svk (Mar 16, 2015)

Is the sloping back cut the same as the "farmer's cut"?


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 16, 2015)

pretty much


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 16, 2015)

dowels


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## nk14zp (Mar 16, 2015)

svk said:


> Is the sloping back cut the same as the "farmer's cut"?


Yep.


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## Gologit (Mar 16, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> dowels
> View attachment 412377



Nice looking logs. Here's more dowels...


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## tla100 (Mar 17, 2015)

Marshy said:


> How deep should I make my back cut?



I always go balls deep.....


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 17, 2015)

road hogs those dowels


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## nk14zp (Mar 17, 2015)

Boy you guys got it easy with those dowels. I can't believe they pay you for that.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 17, 2015)

these here grey ones pay better


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 17, 2015)

why are all the face cuts on the logs and not the stumps ?


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 17, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> why are all the face cuts on the logs and not the stumps ?


some of them are, just the outer two are conventional.........i do both, just depends.


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## zogger (Mar 17, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> these here grey ones pay better
> View attachment 412627



Tulip poplar? What are they making from those logs?


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## slowp (Mar 19, 2015)

The last tree of the day wedging video. Note that the tree is "small" but wedging is used. I think this was a training moment. The guy in the dark shirt was teaching the other guy and both were under the eye of an old, retired faller who was flagging traffic. They needed to fall the tree away from the paved road. Road trees will want to go towards the road, if the road was in place while the tree was growing. The limbs grow on the side of the opening. 

In our area, fallers do the falling before the skidders and yarders move in, which does not make using that equipment an option, until a later time. I've been gone off on a trip for a week and was surprised to see how this thread had gone. So, time for my long and oft used wedging video. This was a real logging unit and the prescription was a commercial thin. The fallers say they like thinnings because they have to think a bit more about how to get the tree on the ground. It takes a bit more skill and a good bag of tricks.


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## Hedgerow (Mar 19, 2015)

zogger said:


> Tulip poplar? What are they making from those logs?


Judging by the one on the lower right, Mike cut the heart out of it cause it may end up a veneer log..
Just a guess from a photo though.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 19, 2015)

yes tulip, mostly they get exported now. peeled for veneer.


zogger said:


> Tulip poplar? What are they making from those logs?


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 19, 2015)

Hedgerow said:


> Judging by the one on the lower right, Mike cut the heart out of it cause it may end up a veneer log..
> Just a guess from a photo though.


some are gutted.......can't remember, that pic from last year. also i have a habit of trimming off the hinge so some look slick.

and prolly almost all of that made some grade of veneer


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## zogger (Mar 19, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes tulip, mostly they get exported now. peeled for veneer.



Man, I need to figger out how to load and move some logs then, I gotz some dandy tulip poplars here. Maybe I can comealong them up onto a trailer with like car ramps or something, that I can pull with my chevy.


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## rwoods (Mar 19, 2015)

zogger, I don't know the fender or side configurations of your trailer but you can usually parbuckle logs easily on a flat bet trailer using two chains without ramps. Ron


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## USMC615 (Mar 19, 2015)

To each and all...you folks have sure taught me a heap about many things. All the variables to take a common sense approach about... Kinda the ol 'sit back, shut up and listen' theory. And I've been all ears instead of 'all mouth' on this one...ain't got no room to speak nohow when it comes to you folks who've been there, done that. I ain't so old nor stupid I can't digest and learn. You folks are great about sharing technique, knowledge, otherwise. I've enjoyed reading, digesting all inputs or otherwise from each of you. Bottom line... Just trying to be safe cuttin trees, again I don't do this stuff for a livin...but I wanna see the sun up tomorrow and burn wood when it's needed.

To be honest with ya, and I think this might be a whole nother thread that exists already, but wanna say this...I'm a lefty. Born that way, will die that way. Shoot guns lefty, etc., shoot a bow right handed, etc. Some things I'm ambidextrous about...swinging a baseball bat, throwing a frisbee, etc. Folks, I run a chainsaw right-handed obviously, but I have never felt 100% like it 'feels' right. I've always stiff armed with my left arm on the handle and even my throttle right hand has been tighter than 'dicks hat band.' Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm over doin things, other leftys do the same...I don't know. And I will never cross my arms and have the throttle in my left hand...sounds like a kickback possible, skull splittin experience to me. I can cut a tree with the basic notch cuts, buck one to my lengths needed, but it still to this day, at 47...is uncomfortable, at least in my lefty world. A chainsaw is the only piece of equipment in my regimen that gives me this 'odd' feeling runnin it right-handed. If any folks wanna chime in, I appreciate your time to read my post and your responses...especially you leftys who like me, just have a damn mental block. By the way righties, way too late to send this unit back for recalibration, Lol. I appreciate you folks input.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 19, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> To each and all...you folks have sure taught me a heap about many things. All the variables to take a common sense approach about... Kinda the ol 'sit back, shut up and listen' theory. And I've been all ears instead of 'all mouth' on this one...ain't got no room to speak nohow when it comes to you folks who've been there, done that. I ain't so old nor stupid I can't digest and learn. You folks are great about sharing technique, knowledge, otherwise. I've enjoyed reading, digesting all inputs or otherwise from each of you. Bottom line... Just trying to be safe cuttin trees, again I don't do this stuff for a livin...but I wanna see the sun up tomorrow and burn wood when it's needed.
> 
> To be honest with ya, and I think this might be a whole nother thread that exists already, but wanna say this...I'm a lefty. Born that way, will die that way. Shoot guns lefty, etc., shoot a bow right handed, etc. Some things I'm ambidextrous about...swinging a baseball bat, throwing a frisbee, etc. Folks, I run a chainsaw right-handed obviously, but I have never felt 100% like it 'feels' right. I've always stiff armed with my left arm on the handle and even my throttle right hand has been tighter than 'dicks hat band.' Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm over doin things, other leftys do the same...I don't know. And I will never cross my arms and have the throttle in my left hand...sounds like a kickback possible, skull splittin experience to me. I can cut a tree with the basic notch cuts, buck one to my lengths needed, but it still to this day, at 47...is uncomfortable, at least in my lefty world. A chainsaw is the only piece of equipment in my regimen that gives me this 'odd' feeling runnin it right-handed. If any folks wanna chime in, I appreciate your time to read my post and your responses...especially you leftys who like me, just have a damn mental block. By the way righties, way too late to send this unit back for recalibration, Lol. I appreciate you folks input.


U'r doing it correctly. As Bitzer is fond of saying "it's all about stump time"


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## USMC615 (Mar 19, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> U'r doing it correctly. As Bitzer is fond of saying "it's all about stump time"



I appreciate your response, thank you. Cutting right handed I don't think will ever feel 'natural' at all to a lefty, at least me. It almost gets physically challenging and I get worn out probably way too soon than a right hander. I'm so damn fixated on overcompensating for a 'kickback problem'...I grip the livin hell out of the handles. It's almost like I could imprint the handles with grip alone. I guess being over cautious better than being under.


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> ...I'm a lefty. Born that way, will die that way. . . . A chainsaw is the only piece of equipment in my regimen that gives me this 'odd' feeling runnin it right-handed.


http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/can-anyone-id-this-left-handed-chainsaw.183797/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/are-there-any-left-handed-arborists-out-there.212289/ (Post#15)

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/ever-seen-a-left-handed-saw.130108/ (Post#18)

Others?

Philbert


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## USMC615 (Mar 20, 2015)

Philbert said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/can-anyone-id-this-left-handed-chainsaw.183797/
> 
> Maybe some other models by 'Cox', 'Porter-Cable', others?
> 
> Philbert



I saw pics of some lefty chainsaws yrs ago, no one now even entertains making them. As far as Porter Cable goes, they dis make a left blade circular saw, at least they did a few yrs ago. Battery operated as well. Worm saws are left blade circular saws as well.


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

I can empathize with you somewhat, when I try to imagine using the saws pictured in the links above with my left hand on the trigger.

Philbert


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## USMC615 (Mar 20, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I can empathize with you when I try to imagine using the saws pictured in the links above with my left hand on the trigger.
> 
> Philbert



Certain things that lefties are kinda left out in the cold with, in a righty predominate world. The studies, facts, and data say it all, I just wish a damn chainsaw didn't feel so awkward. No other piece of power equipment I've ever ran makes me sit back and 'think', and I guess that's a good thing when it comes down to it, before I make the first cut. I guess it's my way of thinking hand control the opposite. I haven't had a fiasco yet, knock on wood, hope I never do.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 20, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> I'm so damn fixated on overcompensating for a 'kickback problem'...I grip the livin hell out of the handles. It's almost like I could imprint the handles with grip alone. I guess being over cautious better than being under.


Don't let Philbert hear this, but I don't even think about kickback when I'm cutting. If you have situational awareness of the bar tip, kickback doesn't happen much. Having a perma-death grip on the saw may keep you safer during a kickback event, but will likely cause you to face many more such events due to fatigue and jerky technique. I worry more about the power head coming back at me than the bar, as that is a bit harder to predict


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## 1project2many (Mar 20, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> I saw pics of some lefty chainsaws yrs ago, no one now even entertains making them. As far as Porter Cable goes, they dis make a left blade circular saw, at least they did a few yrs ago. Battery operated as well. Worm saws are left blade circular saws as well.



I've got that PC lefty worm drive circular. Helluva saw. And none of my friends want to borrow it! I'm predominantly right handed due to 2nd grade teacher: "The left hand is the hand of the Devil!" But I do plenty of jobs with either hand including runing a chainsaw. Yeah, you've got to think sometimes. But it's nice to feel comfortable switching the saw so it best fits the particular operation. Chainsaws aren't bad compared to getting a high torque gear reduction hand held drill with a finger activated trigger lock. Left finger will set that trigger lock every time!


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> I appreciate your response, thank you. Cutting right handed I don't think will ever feel 'natural' at all to a lefty, at least me. It almost gets physically challenging and I get worn out probably way too soon than a right hander. I'm so damn fixated on overcompensating for a 'kickback problem'...I grip the livin hell out of the handles. It's almost like I could imprint the handles with grip alone. I guess being over cautious better than being under.



First saw I ever owned, not ran but owned, was this one. Collector saws now, tiny, but worked well.

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...b0a62d717a273b7288256b87000318a6?OpenDocument


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## slowp (Mar 20, 2015)

USMC: Just make sure you are holding the saw correctly with thumb underneath the handle, fingers over the top. Like HS said, pay attention to where your bar tip is. Don't try to be fast. Try to be safe and smooth--get into the Zen.


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## Oldman47 (Mar 20, 2015)

1project2many said:


> I've got that PC lefty worm drive circular. Helluva saw. And none of my friends want to borrow it! I'm predominantly right handed due to 2nd grade teacher: "The left hand is the hand of the Devil!" But I do plenty of jobs with either hand including runing a chainsaw. Yeah, you've got to think sometimes. But it's nice to feel comfortable switching the saw so it best fits the particular operation. Chainsaws aren't bad compared to getting a high torque gear reduction hand held drill with a finger activated trigger lock. Left finger will set that trigger lock every time!


Think about language and its prejudices. In latin dexter means right, sinister means left. "hand of the devil" well maybe but who wants to be sinister?


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## USMC615 (Mar 20, 2015)

slowp said:


> USMC: Just make sure you are holding the saw correctly with thumb underneath the handle, fingers over the top. Like HS said, pay attention to where your bar tip is. Don't try to be fast. Try to be safe and smooth--get into the Zen.





HuskStihl said:


> Don't let Philbert hear this, but I don't even think about kickback when I'm cutting. If you have situational awareness of the bar tip, kickback doesn't happen much. Having a perma-death grip on the saw may keep you safer during a kickback event, but will likely cause you to face many more such events due to fatigue and jerky technique. I worry more about the power head coming back at me than the bar, as that is a bit harder to predict



Thanks for the input/advice so far folks. Trust me, it will not fall on deaf ears.


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## Gologit (Mar 20, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> Thanks for the input/advice so far folks. Trust me, it will not fall on deaf ears.



The more you run the saw right handed the more natural it will feel. Give it some time.


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 21, 2015)

Finaly got back in the bush today. It felt like my first day at kindergarten. Lol
I felled and skidder 3 whole trees!


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## Marshy (Mar 21, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 413786
> Finaly got back in the bush today. It felt like my first day at kindergarten. Lol
> I felled and skidder 3 whole trees!View attachment 413784
> View attachment 413785


Nice. 440B or C?


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## Gypo Logger (Mar 21, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Nice. 440B or C?


It's a B Marshy. It has a few indiocys, it's on loan but is a good machine outer wise. I sure miss cutting hardwood, but we can only cut what we have. Half a loaf is always better than none. Lol
I wonder if it's possible to come back as a tree when we die, if so I want to be a cherry tree.


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## USMC615 (Mar 22, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 413786
> Finaly got back in the bush today. It felt like my first day at kindergarten. Lol
> I felled and skidder 3 whole trees!View attachment 413784
> View attachment 413785



Look at that cabin in the background with metal roof...sweet!! I'll trade ya a warmer climate in mid-Ga and a subdivision lifestyle for the same, lol. Nice. Somethin tells me I'm gonna hear a big 'no go.'


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## fordf150 (Mar 29, 2015)

these are good enough that im not totally ashamed to post them up. I still have alot to learn and practice to do but here are some examples of what i think i learned from this thread....tell me how good or bad i did. they all fell where i wanted them to even the ones that were leaning the opposite way.


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## boxygen (Mar 29, 2015)

Those look a little deep, f150. You don't really want more than 1/3 diameter. Your look close to 1/2.


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## fordf150 (Mar 29, 2015)

I saw that...and I cut through the hinge on a couple of them.


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## rwoods (Mar 30, 2015)

I know this thread is about face cuts, but how about enlightening us on your back cut, fordf150. I am having a tough time reading your stumps. It looks like you are boring? If so, why? Afraid of a barber chair? The cut is longer than your bar? (Insert head-scratching emoticon here)  Ron


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## Marshy (Mar 30, 2015)

rwoods said:


> I know this thread is about face cuts, but how about enlightening us on your back cut, fordf150. I am having a tough time reading your stumps. It looks like you are boring? If so, why? Afraid of a barber chair? The cut is longer than your bar? (Insert head-scratching emoticon here)  Ron


Just a guess but looks like he's doing a partial back cut, inserting a wedge, going to the other side to complete the backcut.

I'll see if I can get a pic of the elm that I took today. I went a little deep on my horizontal cut in the face and cut through just a little. You'll see what I mean when I post it up. Tree was all of 24" or slightly more in the center at the stump. My 24" bar couldnt reach all the way through, just short by the depth of my dogs on my 285.


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## rwoods (Mar 30, 2015)

Marshy, I understand what you are describing, but I can't tell if those are wedge marks or not? Unless I am wrong on the size, the wedge would have to be a stubby so as not to hit the hinge. Ron


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## fordf150 (Mar 30, 2015)

rwoods said:


> I know this thread is about face cuts, but how about enlightening us on your back cut, fordf150. I am having a tough time reading your stumps. It looks like you are boring? If so, why? Afraid of a barber chair? The cut is longer than your bar? (Insert head-scratching emoticon here)  Ron





Marshy said:


> Just a guess but looks like he's doing a partial back cut, inserting a wedge, going to the other side to complete the backcut.



those trees are only 10-12" and all my wedges are stubby except the new ones i havent used yet.


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## rwoods (Mar 30, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> those trees are only 10-12" and *all my wedges are stubby except the new ones i havent used yet.*



I can identify. Ron


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## fordf150 (Mar 30, 2015)

i am pretty proud of those stumps...if you could only see my previous ones to compare you would understand. i did cut from one side. insert wedge. then to the other side to finish the cut. worked good and was able to get the trees down right where i wanted them which on a few was against the lean/ canopy. i realize i cut through the hinge on a couple and too deep on the face but was still proud enough of those to post em up and get a little feedback on what i did right/wrong.


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## Marshy (Apr 1, 2015)

I'm know I'm probably volunteering to stand in front of the firing squad but, meh why not. Always got something to learn. Here's an elm I just removed. Stump is about 22" at the cut. The horizontal cut in the face was a little deeper than my the angled cut on accident. I bore cut and backed all of the way out of the back cut. I intentionally left less holding wood furthest side if the stump because I was trying to get it to turn some to the left. It had some back lean in the opposite direction I was trying to get it to land. It fell right where I wanted. Flame away.


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## Marshy (Apr 1, 2015)

No flaming? Im dissapointed. Fine "I have a potty mouth"


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## zogger (Apr 1, 2015)

Marshy said:


> No flaming? Im dissapointed. Fine "I have a potty mouth"



Wazzat tombstone lookin piece sticking up, remnant of farmers acute sloping back cut??


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## Marshy (Apr 1, 2015)

zogger said:


> Wazzat tombstone lookin piece sticking up, remnant of farmers acute sloping back cut??


 I put the face cut wedges back on the stump... IDK why just did.


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## mdavlee (Apr 1, 2015)

My only thought is why such a shallow face cut? Other than that I don't see anything weird. Was it leaning a lot to bore in and out the back?


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## Marshy (Apr 1, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> My only thought is why such a shallow face cut? Other than that I don't see anything weird. Was it leaning a lot to bore in and out the back?


Nothing terrible, the branch weight was more of a factor than the lean. Majority of the weight was on the far side of the stump. I was unsure how sound the core was based on some serious holes in the top about 15-20 ft up. In the pic it might look like I was less than 1/3 deep with the face but if you drew a circle from the center of the growth rings it would be damn close to 1/3, maybe a little shallow. Its a little desceving because the stump grew a little more out to the bottom right in the second picture...


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