# Grossly underbidding a job



## ducaticorse (Jun 24, 2010)

I haven't done this until now. I set my guys up on a 46 count Hemlock removal with stump grinding, and after the first 5 hours of progress, I realized that it was going to take a day longer than originally estimated, and I bid it low to start (my own fault) and I am going to be out close to a grand when it's done, forget any margin of profit.

Now, my ethics tells me to complete the job as priced, but my bank account says hell no, and so does my very busy schedule. Plus, I'd have to endure 2 and a half more days of removal knowing that I'm going to be out of pocket big time.

Thoughts guys/gals? I dont need to be flamed, as some "vets" here tend to do. Just need some constructive criticism/advice. Thanks..


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## maloufstree (Jun 24, 2010)

It happens to all of us. I've done it and I'm sure at one point or another everyone on this forum has done it. When it happens to me I just suck it up and finish the job. I have a hard time ever asking for more than what was originally negotiated unless work was added.


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## lxt (Jun 24, 2010)

Wow, I`d say finish it, to walk away would be some bad word of mouth & not to mention if a contract is signed or not???? the home owner may have to pay you nothing because the job would be incomplete!

be careful on this & hopefully all works out, maybe do the money jobs while making a little time here n there to complete this one....but tell the homeowner...they might understand!!



LXT...............


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## oscar4883 (Jun 24, 2010)

Just had this happen as well. Underbid and over on time. Total nightmare of a job. I stuck it out and finished the job although I did not want to. I suppose that as soon as you realize that it is going to be a fiancial disaster, that is the time to bail. My wifes stepfather, an attorney, and I were discussing the situation that I had one day. He said I should have bailed on the job. Said it happens all the time. Basically you refund any money you have been paid and break the contract. Then you get sued, the courts see you refunded any funds, and its over. Now, I don't know if he is 100% correct, but I am inclined to think so. Maybe legally, and fiancially, the above is the best thing to do. It just doesn't seem like the correct thing to do as far as building/maintaining a quality reputation. Keep in mind that I basically paraphrased what he and I discussed and I do get a little woozy talkin to a lawyer. LOL


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## ducaticorse (Jun 24, 2010)

lxt said:


> Wow, I`d say finish it, to walk away would be some bad word of mouth & not to mention if a contract is signed or not???? the home owner may have to pay you nothing because the job would be incomplete!
> 
> be careful on this & hopefully all works out, maybe do the money jobs while making a little time here n there to complete this one....but tell the homeowner...they might understand!!
> 
> ...



No contract was signed, if there were, I'd certainly be finishing the work without question.
I wrote an email to the customer explaining the situation, I am awaiting a response. (can't wait)


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2010)

How's that " stress relief" coming?
You called the client to explain the situation? What was the explanation? That you really don't know in the first place and are just guessing? 
I suppose you might get lucky and they may throw your coniving butt some more yen but seriously; How much work did you do yerself on this job? 
Man, I was always under the impression I had some balls but I could never make a call like that.
Keep posting, and get some pics PLEASE cause your shindig sounds like a hoot. Who ya got working fer ya?


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Man, I was always under the impression I had some balls but I could never make a call like that.



No, me either. I never had the cods to tell a client I needed more frog skins on a job.


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> No, me either. I never had the cods to tell a client I needed more frog skins on a job.



Well, in all honesty I just did that.

One of my clients talked me into doing a mulch job. She knew my stand on mulch but she seemed to want me to do it anyway. I told her I would do the beds but not the trees. There were a few odds and ends to do up there also.
So I gave a price to do some shrub work and the mulch. I told her 5 yards. Well I used the 5 yards and was only half done so I called her and got approval for 4 more yards.
I had make up for my mistake and I think my mistake was understandable; Hey, what do I know about how many yards of mulch? And we both sort of knew that going in.
I dropped my price per yard from 95 to 75 and also did a bunch of other things up there which wasn't included in the original proposal. All in all that was the very first time I ever had to call because my estimate was short.
Now if I slung mulch on a regular basis I would think I had better know just how much mulch and if I made a underestimate I would be able to fill in the gaps on my own accord cause that is what I would think a professional mulch slinger would do and be able to do with little or no skin off his nose. 
Same with trees, sure I was a little low on some jobs but I really never ever lost out because I know how to expedite... and always have.


We had this caterer ( right up your alley ducati), it was just a lady and her daughter. The supplied food for a small party we had. She told us how much beforehand and dependant on that price would be the decision of whether she fed us or we did it ourselves.
So we agreed and everything was fine. I think the bill was around 500 bucks and I left another buck 50 in the envelope for her.
She called later on, after she had picked up her cash, and said she was under and needed more dough. We did not oblige in the slightest. Not that we thought we were getting over on the lady but Hell; how many jobs did I make good on in my life? And not only that its just in very poor taste to call and ask for more money, just think about the assumptions your are going to get. I would rather lose money on a job than be the target of those assumptions and that is definatley for sure.


I would say if there was some unforseen item that setback the estimate you might have a chance of calling for more money. But i don't know to many people who charge for chains when the hit a nail. In fact, I think that's just part of the job. But as professionals you are supposed to know how to wrangle your own steers, its actually kinda of expected you know.


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## ducaticorse (Jun 24, 2010)

treemandan said:


> How's that " stress relief" coming?
> You called the client to explain the situation? What was the explanation? That you really don't know in the first place and are just guessing?
> I suppose you might get lucky and they may throw your coniving butt some more yen but seriously; How much work did you do yerself on this job?
> Man, I was always under the impression I had some balls but I could never make a call like that.
> Keep posting, and get some pics PLEASE cause your shindig sounds like a hoot. Who ya got working fer ya?



Pics will be on the way billy bob! And congratulations on admitting you've made a mistake in the past, I guess you're not a total dou-he after all, but I am not 100 percent sure on that yet.

Anyway, I got talked into doing the job on the short do to the "fact" that he had several associates that wanted immediate work, and he'd be willing to set me up with them if I did him a favor. Turns out, all his "associates" wanted the same deals, basically for me to work for nothing. They all busted my balls, and I declined every job due to them insisting on silly low-ball pricing.

Anyway, we set up on the job, quickly realized that I made more than one mistake during this particular process, and said to myself, "I might as well cut my losses now, rather than risk breaking equipment and making an even bigger hole in the end" 

I realize that reputation is everything in life, but if all this guys friends thought they were going to have me come to their properties and do good work for cost, then whats the harm in explaining that I made a mistake in pricing, and it either needs to be adjusted, or he'd need to find someone else?

I have plenty of great references, and am booked out to the end of July, with more work coming in daily. Do I really need this cloud hanging over my head and wallet for three more days?


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## treemandan (Jun 24, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Pics will be on the way billy bob! And congratulations on admitting you've made a mistake in the past, I guess you're not a total dou-he after all, but I am not 100 percent sure on that yet.
> 
> Anyway, I got talked into doing the job on the short do to the "fact" that he had several associates that wanted immediate work, and he'd be willing to set me up with them if I did him a favor. Turns out, all his "associates" wanted the same deals, basically for me to work for nothing. They all busted my balls, and I declined every job due to them insisting on silly low-ball pricing.
> 
> ...



EEEYUP!

That " we have a lot more work for you" crapola really isn't as quite as good as it sounds. And you can bet your ass I used to work in classy places too. Sure, Sheraton Valley Forge, Raddison Wilmington and slew of nightclubs all over Philly... but that was when I was 16.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 24, 2010)

I have yet to back away yet. Sure I have done many mistakes in pricing it happens. I sometimes if really big job state this is estimate only may cost more or less depending on actual time completing.


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Anyway, I got talked into doing the job on the short do to the "fact" that he had several associates that wanted immediate work, and he'd be willing to set me up with them if I did him a favor.



It's "due" to the fact, "due", anyway....that story is as old as tree work it's self. Hell, older. Are you sorta a newbie?


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## ATH (Jun 24, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> .....Now, my ethics tells me to complete the job as priced, but my bank account says hell no, and so does my very busy schedule. Plus, I'd have to endure 2 and a half more days of removal knowing that I'm going to be out of pocket big time.
> ....


1) Do what you know to be right.

2) Don't be afraid to let the client know that you probably took a loss, but do NOT do this in a whiney sort of way... Maybe wait for him to say something like: "thanks, and boy that was a great price compared to what others quoted me" to which you reply "yeah, I underestimated this one a little, plus quoted you low because I was looking forward to some standard priced references - I would love to hear from some of your associates, but please keep this price between the two of us, because I can't afford to do that for many people"

3) Keep plugging away. Let the guys know this is a tight one and that you need them to work as quick as safely possible. Maybe they'll surprise you and it won't take as long as you think!


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2010)

ATH said:


> 1) Do what you know to be right.
> 
> 2) Don't be afraid to let the client know that you probably took a loss, but do NOT do this in a whiney sort of way... Maybe wait for him to say something like: "thanks, and boy that was a great price compared to what others quoted me" to which you reply "yeah, I underestimated this one a little, plus quoted you low because I was looking forward to some standard priced references - I would love to hear from some of your associates, but please keep this price between the two of us, because I can't afford to do that for many people"
> 
> 3) Keep plugging away. Let the guys know this is a tight one and that you need them to work as quick as safely possible. Maybe they'll surprise you and it won't take as long as you think!



No. (2) makes you look like an assclown.

No. (3) nobody wants to hear. 
I used to work for the other guy myself. Been a long, long time ago but I did. We used to have this ass rag estimator named Cecil Potts that would underbid for some ungodly reason and then start the cheerleader deal to bail his dumb ass out. Screw all that crap.


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## a_lopa (Jun 25, 2010)

Suck it up finish the job and make sure YOU REMEMBER it.


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## Creeker (Jun 25, 2010)

*Underquote......*

Just wondering what the loss/underquote is percentage wise of the job.

E.g. - is it a $10,000 job quoted by you at $9,000, the $1,000 loss isn't so bad then ?

Its tough but to me a quote is a quote - its your quote and your gotta wear it.

Live and learn, the only problem is when we don't learn.

I think you will...


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## ducaticorse (Jun 25, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> It's "due" to the fact, "due", anyway....that story is as old as tree work it's self. Hell, older. Are you sorta a newbie?



Yes yes, I know. And yes, I've only been doing this work on my own for less than a year now. Hence the questions here. I appreciate the feedback.


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## maloufstree (Jun 25, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> No contract was signed, if there were, I'd certainly be finishing the work without question.



Contract or not just do what you said you would do and go on to the next one.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 25, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Yes yes, I know. And yes, I've only been doing this work on my own for less than a year now. Hence the questions here. I appreciate the feedback.



This is what gives you "experience". Embrace it and be glad you are getting "experience", Do the job and if you eat it, you eat it, but these are the lessons you need to get better. Cheer up! 
Jeff


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## mckeetree (Jun 25, 2010)

maloufstree said:


> Contract or not just do what you said you would do and go on to the next one.



Yep.


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## ATH (Jun 25, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> No. (2) makes you look like an assclown.
> 
> No. (3) nobody wants to hear.
> I used to work for the other guy myself. Been a long, long time ago but I did. We used to have this ass rag estimator named Cecil Potts that would underbid for some ungodly reason and then start the cheerleader deal to bail his dumb ass out. Screw all that crap.



(2) Walking on a job makes you look bad...this proposal makes you look like a whiner 

(3) Depends on your rapport with the crew. If this happens every week, yeah it gets old. If it happens once and you take them out to a nice dinner when it is done (regardless of how it went...) than they will be there when you need them. You are right, nobody _wants_ to hear that, but they will respond to it if you have earned their respect.


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## mckeetree (Jun 25, 2010)

ATH said:


> (2) Walking on a job makes you look bad...this proposal makes you look like a whiner
> 
> (3) Depends on your rapport with the crew. If this happens every week, yeah it gets old. If it happens once and you take them out to a nice dinner when it is done (regardless of how it went...) than they will be there when you need them. You are right, nobody _wants_ to hear that, but they will respond to it if you have earned their respect.



(2) It sure the hell does.

(3) My crews bust their ass everyday and I mean bust their ass. I am not going to ask them to bail my stupid ass out by damn near killing themselves.


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