# Wrong mix in chainsaw?



## Jimfound (Feb 18, 2009)

A little embarassed but here it is. Was cutting with my 361. Ran out of gas and friend told me he had mix - no need to run back to my house. Filled up the tank and the 361 was hard to start. Started it for a second or two, and then it conked out on me. Oh crap I thought....

My guess is he had a 32:1 mix intead of 50:1. Didn't get q chace to verify that yet. He was not running his saw. Anyway, I dumped what was in the tank and refilled with 50:1. The saw started after much coaxing and then smoked like a SOB. Let a full tank run through before shutting her down for the night.

Question is, how bad off is the saw. Potentially no damage and just need to burn some oil off or...what do you guys think? Thought I would post here instead of chainsaw thread cause this is where I visit when I'm on the site.

Thanks for your feedback. :stupid:


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## gilraine (Feb 18, 2009)

more oil than needed is much better than not enough.. if it was really heavy, pull the plug, clean or replace it and try again..


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## AOD (Feb 18, 2009)

Shouldn't be any damage from too much oil. Worst case is it might smoke a bit or foul a plug. Run a few tanks of good stuff through it, making sure to do some WOT cutting in some bigger stuff and you should be fine.


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## willsaw4beer (Feb 18, 2009)

Your saw will be fine if it was just too rich of oil mix. Hopefully it was not old/ bad gas, that could have been a bit hard on the piston/cyl. You'll most likely be fine, do as others have advised you.


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## dingeryote (Feb 18, 2009)

The only possible damage would be from running a smidge lean.

For just a few seconds it ain't gonna hurt nothin'.

Clean off the plug, fill her up with your normal Mix, and go cut some wood.

On the off chance your bud had straight Gas in his Mix can, you could pull the Muffler and eyeball the piston.

It just depends on how much it bugs ya not knowing I guess.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Jimfound (Feb 18, 2009)

Thanks guys.


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## WidowMaker (Feb 19, 2009)

it's a 361, it'll heal itself...


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## doorstop (Feb 19, 2009)

Gee, I run 10:1 in the Mall - - - don't have any bugs around either . . . .


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## K7NUT (Feb 19, 2009)

Jimfound said:


> Question is, how bad off is the saw.
> Thanks for your feedback. :stupid:



You may be screwed, big time!
My advice to you would be, send it to me and I will do my best to revive it for you. However, the testing might take a few years, to be sure!
:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Coldfront (Feb 19, 2009)

You think that's embarrassing, a couple years ago on an old Homelite I filled gas in the bar oil res. and bar oil in the gas tank, couldn't figure out why it wouldn't start and took it to a local saw repair. On those saws the gas tank was in the front closest to bar, and the oil tank was toward the back of the saw toward hand hold, just the opposite of all my other saws. Talk about feeling dumb.
And Btw it didn't hurt the saw any, after he drained and refilled both tanks he said he killed all the mosquito's in the neighborhood with smoke but the saw runs good.


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## Orange Hill (Feb 19, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> The only possible damage would be from running a smidge lean.
> 
> For just a few seconds it ain't gonna hurt nothin'.
> 
> ...


:agree2:


I notice that people call 32:1 a richer mixture then 50:1 and it isn't, it's leaner. It is leaner because per unit of fuel there is less fuel and more oil making a leaner air/fuel ratio. You can foul a plug with oil even if the afr is too lean.


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 19, 2009)

The difference between 50:1 and 32:1 isn't large enough to really cause any carb jetting or smoke problems. I would say your friends mix probably had more oil in it than he thought. Hill you're not entirely correct on this one. Much of the oil gets burnt in the combustion process along with the fuel, and as we know oil has energy in it as well. The difference between 50:1 and 32:1 is very minimal.. 

 Andy.


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## thejdman04 (Feb 19, 2009)

No problems, just run it hard and hot, burn off the carbon etc, you might have to clean out the screan in the muffler but other then that no problems (the spark arrestor screan.


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## Labman (Feb 19, 2009)

The Stihl dealer told the guy I worked for at the time his Stihl burned up on him because he was running 32:1 instead of 50:1. Stihl was selling the same size bottles for both, the 50:1 bottles were just part full. 

Of course, this was the same guy that burned up 3 weedeaters on the can of gas he forgot to put any oil in at all.


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## Jimfound (Feb 19, 2009)

Coldfront said:


> You think that's embarrassing, a couple years ago on an old Homelite I filled gas in the bar oil res. and bar oil in the gas tank, couldn't figure out why it wouldn't start and took it to a local saw repair. On those saws the gas tank was in the front closest to bar, and the oil tank was toward the back of the saw toward hand hold, just the opposite of all my other saws. Talk about feeling dumb.
> And Btw it didn't hurt the saw any, after he drained and refilled both tanks he said he killed all the mosquito's in the neighborhood with smoke but the saw runs good.



aahaha...great story...thanks for sharing that one!


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## Jimfound (Feb 19, 2009)

K7NUT said:


> You may be screwed, big time!
> My advice to you would be, send it to me and I will do my best to revive it for you. However, the testing might take a few years, to be sure!
> :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Send me your address...I'll send it right out...


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## AIM (Feb 20, 2009)

Orange Hill said:


> I notice that people call 32:1 a richer mixture then 50:1 and it isn't, it's leaner. It is leaner because per unit of fuel there is less fuel and more oil making a leaner air/fuel ratio.



Ok you lost me... I've always thought that 32:1 was richer than 50:1 
Isn't kinda like 32 parts gas to every one part oil?
I'm just asking not arguing.


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## rtrsam (Feb 20, 2009)

Coldfront said:


> You think that's embarrassing, a couple years ago on an old Homelite I filled gas in the bar oil res. and bar oil in the gas tank, couldn't figure out why it wouldn't start and took it to a local saw repair. On those saws the gas tank was in the front closest to bar, and the oil tank was toward the back of the saw toward hand hold, just the opposite of all my other saws. Talk about feeling dumb.
> And Btw it didn't hurt the saw any, after he drained and refilled both tanks he said he killed all the mosquito's in the neighborhood with smoke but the saw runs good.



I had a similar thing happen to me, except I wasn't the one who did the pouring, I got to fix it. Shindaiwa 360 (little tiny saw), it would sort of halfway run with the choke half pulled and full throttle, and smoked like crazy. I was puzzled as could be. Had the bar and chain pulled off and was sitting there letting it beller along... and I noticed the bar oil was looking awfully thin as it squirted out of the port. Sniffed it, it smelled like gas. Someone had mis-poured when the tank was about half full. Just dumped out the offensive mix and re-filled properly, no harm no foul.

For what it's worth, I ran all 25:1 in everything for many years, brushcutters, drills, all brands of saws. Probably had to replace the plugs a little more often, and once in a blue moon had to remove and burn off a spark arrester screen, other than that, it worked great.

Used to buy 2-stroke oil in 55 gallon drums. Once we had a drum of red oil. Next drum was green oil (colors to permit you to identify mixed fuel). As we were transitioning from red to green, our mix had sort of a black color to it. Again, no worries, just looked nasty. You had to really know that this was actually good fuel mix and not some sort of used crankcase oil.


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## mikefunaro (Feb 20, 2009)

I generally think its good practice not to get mix from anyone else, unless they share the same "aficion" for chainsaws.


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## Raymond (Feb 20, 2009)

That's why under no circumstances do I use other peoples gas. I help a lot of wanna be tree guys around here often.

And they always try and get me to use their gas. They think I'm nuts for using my own...but I see the empty lawn boy bottles in the back of the truck.

Got another one for ya...
Years ago I went to my local Stihl dealer to get a few things. One of them was STIHL two cycle oil. The only thing the had at the time was the cute little bottles of oil, for a gallon mix. 
Not a problem I put 2 in my gas can and only put 2 gallons of gas in the can right? 
Then before it was used up the STIHL guys had a shipment come in and I bought the regular 2.5 gallon mix.
Putting the little bottles behind the seat for back up one day.

Then it happened months later...Had a somewhat new guy helping me.
We needed gas I told him the oil was behind the seat..forgetting all about the little bottles back there.

In the corner of my eye while sharping a saw I somewhat watched him put the oil in the can and later stopped and put in the 2.5 gals of fuel.

Few minutes after I'm in the tree my saw seems like it's locking up. Then I look down and I see his saw seems to be locking up.
I'm thinking...now I no damn well I seen him put the oil in the gas can this morning.

Yeah I threw the last 3 bottles away.


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## Lloyd H (Feb 20, 2009)

*32 x 1*

I run 32 to 1 in everything with no problems, my attitude is if it wont live on 32 to 1 it ain't much of a saw


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## Mike Van (Feb 20, 2009)

What Lloyd said - I don't own a saw made after 1980 or so - But 32/1 shouldn't hurt anything except the bug population. Dump it out, put your regular mix in & saw on -


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## mantis (Feb 20, 2009)

I always run it rich in the summer.Keeps the bugs at bay.It wont hurt anything,and probably help it in the long run.It was probably bad gas that caused it


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## Orange Hill (Feb 20, 2009)

AIM said:


> Ok you lost me... I've always thought that 32:1 was richer than 50:1
> Isn't kinda like 32 parts gas to every one part oil?
> I'm just asking not arguing.



Hey I am a mellow guy and I am not here to ruffle feathers, so if I come off that way just know that is not my style.

You are correct in your ratio. Richness when referring to jetting is the relationship of the air and fuel mixture in the combustion mixture; as you jet for fuel not oil. The purpose of the oil in the premix is lubrication not combustion; it does burn but but not completely and may even inhibit combustion to a small degree like green wood to a fire. There is energy there but it takes energy to release it. Also the more oil in the premix the higher the premix viscosity and the more resistant it is to flow though the jets orifices in the carb. So again it is leaning the mixture a small percentage by reduced flow at a given vacuum level and you are moving a bit further away from a ideal stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1. So if you think about it you can have two different oils mixed at the same ratios but have them jet differently to a small degree if they are of a different viscosity. 

Have you ever seen a guy put a new carb on his car and foul his plugs because it was too rich? There was no premix used yet his plugs fouled because the mix was rich meaning he had too much gas to be completely burned with the available oxygen. I use to ride dirtbikes with a guy that brought a small bottle of 2 stroke oil with him to add to the tank to lean his mix out a bit when we hit the higher altitudes, we just carried extra plugs as our bikes got too rich. I was afraid of toasting my engine when we were back at lower altitudes. His bike did run better then ours at the higher altitude because more oil leaned out his air/fuel mixture.

All of that said you can run a saw a bit leaner when you have more oil in the mixture because of the quenching effect of the oil and the increased lubrication available to protect the piston and cylinder. That is part of the reason why I keep my 2 stroke dirtbikes at 40:1 even though I could run them at 50:1 with a good quality synthetic but I would have to rejet my bikes more often.


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## egoaway (Feb 20, 2009)

*Orangehill great post*

I learned alot from your post about how carberators work. But when I am refering to a gas can I would say "Hand me that rich mix (32:1) can for the mcullah or hand me that lean mix(50:1) for the Husqvarna or Stihl. That way my employee won't get confused and put 50:1 mix in the cheap saw. but now I know that its the oppisite when refering to how the carb is running.

If you ever wondered what a very rich running saw (242xp) will do. I came back from vacation and forget my gas can had no 2 stroke oil in it. Well my saw ran too good and got through almost a full tank of straight gas before it died. I miss that saw. Had the best power to weight ratio.


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## K7NUT (Feb 21, 2009)

Great post, I learned alot.
Thanks for the info


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## AIM (Feb 21, 2009)

Crush: Very good explanation of things. Even helped me figure out a few things about my little airplane engines.





The common rule here is to run a higher oil content if you want your engine to run cooler. The belief is that the unburned oil will exit the exhaust carrying heat with it. I can't say that this is scientifically correct but it does seem to work. The whole viscosity thing explains a lot about why I have to fuss with them when I change fuels.


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## Dalmatian90 (Feb 21, 2009)

> Ok you lost me... I've always thought that 32:1 was richer than 50:1
> Isn't kinda like 32 parts gas to every one part oil?



Unless my math is wrong...

51 ounces of 50:1 = 50 ounces gas, 1 ounce oil

51 ounces of 32:1 = 49.4 ounces gas, 1.6 ounces oil

1 U.S. Gallon = 128 ounces.


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## mantis (Feb 22, 2009)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Unless my math is wrong...
> 
> 51 ounces of 50:1 = 50 ounces gas, 1 ounce oil
> 
> ...



Or 32 oz. gas+1 oz. oil


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## Octane (Feb 22, 2009)

As the others said, you didnt hurt a thing by running 32:1 in it. If your saw ran that bad, Id say it was either mixed much richer than that or it was old gas.
Either way, as long as it runs good now, I wouldnt worry about it.


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## xcr440 (Feb 25, 2009)

Sounds like bad or water in the gas versus too much oil. I run all my 2 stroke stuff at 32:1.


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## KD57 (Feb 25, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> The difference between 50:1 and 32:1 isn't large enough to really cause any carb jetting or smoke problems. I would say your friends mix probably *had more oil in it than he thought.* Hill you're not entirely correct on this one. Much of the oil gets burnt in the combustion process along with the fuel, and as we know oil has energy in it as well. The *difference between 50:1 and 32:1 is very minimal.. *
> 
> Andy.



Very true.


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## mga (Feb 25, 2009)

driving to my first job one morning to service a furnace, i happen to see some junk by the side of the street. i stopped the van to check it out and grabbed a leaf blower they were throwing out and threw it in the back of the company van.

i brought it home and tried to start it...the damn thing had oil oozing out of the muffler. so, i drained the gas out and put my own mixture in and cleaned the plug. two pulls later the thing fired up and ran like a charm once the old oil was gone and burnt out.

people don't know how to mix oil and gas. their loss...my gain of a nice homelite blower.


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## LANNY (Feb 25, 2009)

I too put bar oil in gas tank, to make a long story short, changed plug, fuel filter, and cleaned carb before it would run, still ornery for a couple of tanks.....Lanny


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