# Ripping chain problems



## Matildasmate (May 1, 2007)

*Anyone know what problem i am havin with my ripping chain? Ive been useing short bars 24" for a couple of years, just started using 36" bar on large blackwood log , but having problems,doesnt seem to want to cut.So I tried ripping roughly half way through the log for the full length of the log and then changed to the 36" bar to finish the job which worked fine.But the question is how come i cant rip full width with the 36" bar,pretty weird stuff.Can anyone help THANKS? I use a Stihl ms660 91.5cc chainsaw*


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## aquan8tor (May 1, 2007)

Can you describe your problem a little more?? It looks like you're no newbie to milling, certainly got a lot more lumber there than I do in my weak pile, so I know you have a pretty good idea what you're doing. What's going on with the saw?? Also, do you have an auxiliary oiler installed?? Some of your down under logs make our white oak, hickory, and locust look soft in comparison. Don't mean to suggest common simple solutions, I just don't know enough details. 

Looks like you've designed your mill ( pretty sweet setup by the way) a lot like the logosol mill. They use the thin-kerf 3/8 chain or similar. I tried using carlton 3/8 low profile ripping chain and kept pulling apart drive links with my (stock with a muffler mod--maybe 7.5HP??) husqvarna 394XP. Before I pulled them apart I was getting a lot of vibration, and not-so-smooth cuts because of so much chain swing, even with it properly tensioned. This bound pretty easily if the chain bogged down.

Are you wedging the cut?? I know blackwood is incredibly heavy.


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## Matildasmate (May 1, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> Can you describe your problem a little more?? It looks like you're no newbie to milling, certainly got a lot more lumber there than I do in my weak pile, so I know you have a pretty good idea what you're doing. What's going on with the saw?? Also, do you have an auxiliary oiler installed?? Some of your down under logs make our white oak, hickory, and locust look soft in comparison. Don't mean to suggest common simple solutions, I just don't know enough details.
> 
> Looks like you've designed your mill ( pretty sweet setup by the way) a lot like the logosol mill. They use the thin-kerf 3/8 chain or similar. I tried using carlton 3/8 low profile ripping chain and kept pulling apart drive links with my (stock with a muffler mod--maybe 7.5HP??) husqvarna 394XP. Before I pulled them apart I was getting a lot of vibration, and not-so-smooth cuts because of so much chain swing, even with it properly tensioned. This bound pretty easily if the chain bogged down.
> 
> Are you wedging the cut?? I know blackwood is incredibly heavy.



Guday mate Yeah its real weird.I can put a short bar on and start cutting away no problem,as soon as I try too use,what i call a long bar 36" lucky to get a 1/4" into log. I use standard full chisel 3/8" x .063 Stihl chain sharpened to 10 degrees - THANKS for replying,problem has got me stuffed


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## aquan8tor (May 2, 2007)

wonder if maybe the rakers are just too high. I got a 25ft. box of full chisel a while back that I paid a local shop to grind down to 10deg. for me. It took so much of the tooth off to sharpen it that the rakers were only at like .010or less, due to the "ramped" nature of full chisel cutters, I guess. I don't know if that has anything to do with your situation at all. I just had a similar thing with mine is all. 

One thing I've found about mine is that it sure gets dull a hell of a lot quicker than semi-chisel rip chain. The box was cheap, and I didn't think about it. Not that that's your problem, just my bad luck...PITA to file down that much raker without a grinder!!!! 

Well, I don't know if that helps at all, but it sounds like what happened with mine. 

Did you weld angle track onto the ladder? I'd love to see more pics of the setup.



edit: is the bar hard or sprocketnose?? I know it takes a lot more energy on hardnose bars. Before I realized I couldn't adapt a tensioning helper handle to the bar, I got a 42" hardnose bar. Anyone want to buy one cheap??


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Quartering a large pine log ,so i could get it on the ute*

aquan8tor Manfred here,I think I will have a bit of a fiddle with a few things tommorrow.Theres no shortage of power,plenty of lube,just dont seem to cut full width with the 36" bar,if i run the 20" bar through roughly half the width of the log for the full length of log ,then change to the long bar to finish the job off ,works fine.I think ill try taking down the rakers a bit more,ive already turned it into a double skip chain as it is,so theres not much left of the chain left to stuff up. Heres some more photos - The rail {being an aluminium ladder} is actualy removable so you can mount it to a log.The rail is normaly just held on by occy straps and G clamps either on the sawmill or a log.I use hydraulic jacks underneath the logs on the sawmill to lift them.I also use a ute mounted crane to help load and manuver the logs.I actualy desighned it to cut roughly 400mm diam logs,but you know how it goes,theres always bigger ones,sawmill actualy needs a rebuild.Done a lot of mods to it.More photos to come,Im only on dialup,bit slow.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Describe what it's doing when you attempt to cut full width. Is it bogging or stopping the chain or does it just spin with no chips?

If you can take closeup pictures of your chain it may help getting to the bottom of this.

At this point, one recommendation I would make is use full comp micro-chisel, semi-chisel or chipper chain to make your ripping chains. It will cut much smoother (both in felt vibration and surface finish) and if you get your angles right and keep it sharp, it will cut just as fast as chisel and hold an edge longer.

Good luck.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> ,ive already turned it into a double skip chain as it is,so theres not much left of the chain left to stuff up. .



FYI

Manfred,

In my experiments on ripping chain, I have found no advantage to skip chains. When I have timed my cuts, keeping everything else equal, full comp cuts nearly 50% faster than skip or semi-skip on my 44" bar.


Nice pics BTW. I'm surprised they don't appear upside down over here. Just kidding.:hmm3grin2orange: 

While I was still in high school I was able to make a trip with a bunch of other students to your country. We spent a little over 3 weeks touring the country visiting places like the Sidney zoo, the Capital (actually met the prime minister at the time), the Great Barrier Reef and many places in between. The thing I enjoyed the most were the home stays with local families in small towns and on farms. Ya'll are good people.


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Aggiewoodbutchr*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Describe what it's doing when you attempt to cut full width. Is it bogging or stopping the chain or does it just spin with no chips?
> 
> If you can take closeup pictures of your chain it may help getting to the bottom of this.
> 
> ...



Hi Aggiewoodbutchr I use a proper chain grinder,forget the hand fileing buisiness just not accurate enough.Like I was saying though,it is a bit strange,that I can use a shorter bar to rip,roughly half way through,for the full length of log,then change to longer bar to finish the job off and cuts fine.
But anyway yes chain basicaly just spins no chips.I uploaded some more photos on a new thread.My chainsawmill is simular to a logasol sawmill and a rail mill


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Hi Aggiewoodbutchr I use a proper chain grinder,forget the hand fileing buisiness just not accurate enough.Like I was saying though,it is a bit strange,that I can use a shorter bar to rip,roughly half way through,for the full length of log,then change to longer bar to finish the job off and cuts fine.
> But anyway yes chain basicaly just spins no chips.I uploaded some more photos on a new thread.My chainsawmill is simular to a logasol sawmill and a rail mill



Hmmm- do you have a way to measure you depth guages? I usually set mine to .030" - .035" (.762mm - .889mm).


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## 2cyblowtrch (May 2, 2007)

*Carlton lo-pro*

Aquantor, I too pulled the carlton chain apart, then I tried the Stihl pm63 (Stihl's lo-pro) and so far no problem. Can't say for sure that it is any faster than regular 3/8 Stihl rs or rslk. I'm using a 3120 for this.

What has been your experience speed wise?


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*aggiewoodbutchr Yeah sydney is close to where i live*

Hi aggiewoodbutchr Yeah sydney is close to where i live mate roughly 2000kms away. I thought I would try taking out some teeth to see if I could get a little extra pressure on the remaing teeth without stretching me chain,dumb move.Somehow I think its definitly got something to do with the sharpening.Oh the density of blackwood is 870kg m3 - Acacia melanoxylon. Glad to here you enjoyed yourself over ere mate.


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## oldsaw (May 2, 2007)

Aggie may be onto something there. I boogered a chain on a nail and got interrupted while I was sharpening it, and never did the rakers. Got into a 36 inch walnut and the saw spun a lot, but not much came out of it. Swapped chains, and it worked like a champ. Turns out I had to shorten the cutters so far that I was getting almost no cut at all. That would be my first guess too, since I've actually seen it.

Mark


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*aggiwoodbutchr depth guages*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Hmmm- do you have a way to measure you depth guages? I usually set mine to .030" - .035" (.762mm - .889mm).



I got good measurer for depth guages but thats for cross cut chains,is there any dif in height for crosscut or ripping chain depth guages? aquan8tor said I might like to take a look at that,which I will do soon.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Hi aggiewoodbutchr Yeah sydney is close to where i live mate roughly 2000kms away. I thought I would try taking out some teeth to see if I could get a little extra pressure on the remaing teeth without stretching me chain,dumb move.Somehow I think its definitly got something to do with the sharpening.Oh the density of blackwood is 870kg m3 - Acacia melanoxylon. Glad to here you enjoyed yourself over ere mate.



Pretty heavy stuff your're handling there. Just a bit heavier than our white oak.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> I got good measurer for depth guages but thats for cross cut chains,is there any dif in height for crosscut or ripping chain depth guages? aquan8tor said I might like to take a look at that,which I will do soon.



Cross cut chain depth guages are typically set at .025".


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Depth guages*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Cross cut chain depth guages are typically set at .025".



Yeah aggie definitely gunna av a go at these depth guages mate. THANKS


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Depth guages*



oldsaw said:


> Aggie may be onto something there. I boogered a chain on a nail and got interrupted while I was sharpening it, and never did the rakers. Got into a 36 inch walnut and the saw spun a lot, but not much came out of it. Swapped chains, and it worked like a champ. Turns out I had to shorten the cutters so far that I was getting almost no cut at all. That would be my first guess too, since I've actually seen it.
> 
> Mark


Hi Mark Yeah I reckon all you blokes are right probably depth guages.THANKS


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*River regum*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Pretty heavy stuff your're handling there. Just a bit heavier than our white oak.



Hi Aggie I here river redgum grows over there {Euc Camaldulensis}is that native over there? Me and a couple of mates planted about 2000 wa karri (Euc Diversicolor} at my place about 8 years ago Some are about 40ft high now,another ten years should be big enough for me,they grow to 90m high.Got some cypress tree seedlings growwing at the moment.


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Your question about welded angle*



aquan8tor said:


> wonder if maybe the rakers are just too high. I got a 25ft. box of full chisel a while back that I paid a local shop to grind down to 10deg. for me. It took so much of the tooth off to sharpen it that the rakers were only at like .010or less, due to the "ramped" nature of full chisel cutters, I guess. I don't know if that has anything to do with your situation at all. I just had a similar thing with mine is all.
> 
> One thing I've found about mine is that it sure gets dull a hell of a lot quicker than semi-chisel rip chain. The box was cheap, and I didn't think about it. Not that that's your problem, just my bad luck...PITA to file down that much raker without a grinder!!!!
> 
> ...



Hi Aquan8tor Your question about welded angle.I just used big rivets just one peice down the guts.That was mainly to take the pressure of the small bearings i used for wheels for the sled that rolls along the sawmill rail ,I done a lot of Autosketch drawings ( basicly cad type drawings}if want to see any my email address is [email protected]


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Tree in background*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Pretty heavy stuff your're handling there. Just a bit heavier than our white oak.



Hi Aggie whats the tree in the background behind you mate.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Hi Aggie whats the tree in the background behind you mate.



Water oak, Q. nigra- a variety of red oak.

Interesting tidbit- I just learned there's one in Louisiana that's 278" in circumfrence! Assuming it's perfectly circular that's 88" in dia! I need to get a longer bar!


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Hi Aggie I here river redgum grows over there {Euc Camaldulensis}is that native over there? Me and a couple of mates planted about 2000 wa karri (Euc Diversicolor} at my place about 8 years ago Some are about 40ft high now,another ten years should be big enough for me,they grow to 90m high.Got some cypress tree seedlings growwing at the moment.



No eucs that I know of here. Another member posted some pics of red gum here a while back. Nice looking stuff.


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## Matildasmate (May 2, 2007)

*Nice looking wood looks a lot like cypress*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Water oak, Q. nigra- a variety of red oak.
> 
> Interesting tidbit- I just learned there's one in Louisiana that's 278" in circumfrence! Assuming it's perfectly circular that's 88" in dia! I need to get a longer bar!



Nice looking wood looks a lot like cypress.I was just havin alook at a map of America mate,I got a set of dixie logging tongs from Louisiana,are you close to the border? .what sort of setup do you use to rip your logs,apart from your chainsaws?


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 2, 2007)

Louisiana is about a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. Not far by Texas standards.

I checked out where you're at too. When I was there we pretty much stayed on the east coast. We flew into Sidney, drove down to Canberra, then all the way back up to Cairns. We did venture far enough west to visit a large cattle station for a few days. I'd love to make it back some day.

You can get a good look at my slabbing mill here...

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=48068


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