# Koller yarders, K 300



## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

So I found one for a what seems like a decent price, not that I have the money to get it right now...

Any way wondering what all yer thoughts are on them, this ones the little trailer version single axle, 25' tower, main/skyline and I think 3 guys.

For the kind of work I'm in it would probably be more then enough machine.


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## slowp (Oct 13, 2014)

Like this except no extension on the tube? This was run by 2 or 3 guys. That depended on whether they were trucking. Usually one on the landing and one in the brush. The guy in the brush would run up when the landing got plugged up and run trees through the processor. They did OK and I was surprised because they bought it and had no yarder experience amongst them. They had moved over from NE Warshington and found out that we didn't have much forwarder ground. They used the forwarder as a guyline stump. 

The Koller was pretty reliable and didn't have much downtime. I think they took good care of it and their other equipment. They pulled it with their log truck. 

Note the Acme carriage. 

One local guy said he didn't like any yarder that didn't have a cab. That seems to be the bad point, or good because the yarder engineer doesn't have to climb up and down to go unhook logs. They cobbled together a tarp affair for the bad weather. 

It was two brothers and their dad. Their dad was the rookie of the crew and ran the yarder only. The boys did the falling, processing, loading and trucking. They did all right.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

Like that but smaller. Towable by a 1 ton truck or maybe less.

The plan is to just keep to a very small crew, me, the War Dept and maybe one other. Probably end up felling and bucking by hand as I'm doing now, then just yard the logs, maybe use the skidder to clear the chute, and deck (sort of, have to maybe rig up some of those chain ended chokers?). 

This is still in the realm of pipe dream, but if it where to work out, then it would open up a whole new area of logging for me. Lots of steep ground is privately owned.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

Like this only blue


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 13, 2014)

northy does that still work with a carriage? i benn playing with ideas of some thing not useing one. just for deep gullys and such for high value sticks.
i didn't know they made one that size........


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

yeah they come with a mechanical carriage, like the old Christy but Austrian and weird, lots of vids of them on youtube, the deluxe versions even have shackle passers and tree jacks, All the groovy toys just like the big boys play with only smaller... and therefore more mobile. The larger 500-600 series koller's have an option for a motorized carriage and wireless remote control.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

They also make them PTO driven so you could mount them to a mid to large sized farm tractor, among other options


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## slowp (Oct 13, 2014)

I don't like their whistle. It is wimpy sounding. 

The model you show looks like the one OSU had has? Only they mounted it on the back of a tractor. It had a wimpy whistle too.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

Talkie tooter is only about 40mi from here, I'm sure they can fix the whistle...


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## KiwiBro (Oct 13, 2014)

Sorry, a little off topic but when my baby operation grows up a little (well, a lot), it'll morph into something like this to make daddy proud:


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## KiwiBro (Oct 13, 2014)

sna


northmanlogging said:


> They also make them PTO driven so you could mount them to a mid to large sized farm tractor, among other options


Snap. There's also a smaller (yes, it's true) version.


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## Gologit (Oct 13, 2014)

I think 2dogs has some experience with those small yarders.


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 13, 2014)

i am thinking of just mounting a block up a tree for lift and running alot of cable on the old clark......just use her to get um up to flat ground. i need a monkey to pull the cable down lol.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

Or... hang a second line and rig a pair of snatch blocks to a heavy butt log about 6 feet long use the log as a Gyppo shotgun carriage, taught line as a skyline, skidder line as a mainline/haulback. Mainline runs through a third block attached to log.

Still need a brush ape to hook chokers and drag a little line around but it works ok... second winch for the skyline would be better. It can be a real pain to rig up and make work but not impossible.


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 13, 2014)

i wonder how much 5/8 that drum would hold..........
your meaning use the log as weight to pull the cable back down the hill.....hmmm.........


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## northmanlogging (Oct 13, 2014)

I have a formula somewheres to figure how much they will hold...

If you manage to get some kind of lift you can use much smaller cable, and therefore fit way more on the drum.

Yeah kinda like having your really dumb brother hang on to it until it stops moving... without the whole accident investigation and potential murder charges...


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## KiwiBro (Oct 13, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Or... hang a second line and rig a pair of snatch blocks to a heavy butt log about 6 feet long use the log as a Gyppo shotgun carriage, taught line as a skyline, skidder line as a mainline/haulback. Mainline runs through a third block attached to log.
> 
> Still need a brush ape to hook chokers and drag a little line around but it works ok... second winch for the skyline would be better. It can be a real pain to rig up and make work but not impossible.


$ permitting, I'll be adding a small tower for some lift (about 15') and a small hydraulic haulback winch to my lil' tractor skidding winch. For haulback, I looked at lewis winches (too slow), portable capstan winches (too cumbersome and too easy for loose rope to get caught on every damned thing in the brush). Also, whilst it is good in some ways if the winch is with the choker rats because then the line won't need to go through a block most of the time, I'd still prefer it was operated by the landing as they are the ones who will be first to know when the chokers are free and they want to move them back down/up the hill.


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## 2dogs (Oct 14, 2014)

This is the one I worked under and ran on a few jobs.



Same job,



Another pic.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 14, 2014)

Looks to be about the same vintage as the one I've found, 

How big a wood could it pull? is really the question of the day...

Reliability from all I've heard has been good.


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## slowp (Oct 14, 2014)

The most frequent problem on the family run job was, and see if I 'splain this correctly, forgetting to set the brake and having the line unspool. That happened a few times. They were on some pretty steep ground.


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## hammerlogging (Oct 14, 2014)

For the timber you seem to cut based on the pictures, I think you'd be doing most of your bucking at the stump with a yarder that size. Not that this is undoable or not ok.


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## slowp (Oct 14, 2014)

If you google Oregon State University Koller Yarder, you'll get this link which will lead you to an old paper written up. I can't figure out how to link PDF documents. Ooops, I guess I did! Click on the blue and you have it. 
Our class rigged up an intermediate support, which collapsed on the third turn over it...class over.

[PDF]
*NCREASING THE PRODUCTIVITY OF A SMALL YARDER: …*
ir.library.*oregonstate.edu*/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/7925/RB_no...
School of Forestry, *Oregon State University*, Corvallis. 52 p. Lucas, A. 1982. ... a small *yarder* (*Koller* K-300) operating under variable conditions: the


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## northmanlogging (Oct 15, 2014)

Whole tree yarding with a Deere 440 is less then optimal... I don't see the little yarder being much better at it. Not to mention to make whole tree yarding profitable ya pretty much need to have a processor or pay someone to limb and buck on the landing, for me both are kinda pointless, though it would be nice to not have to bump knots ever again...

Ms P thanks for the PDF, I'll have to read through it when I'm more awake, lots of numbers and long college words... (I have to run a mental thesaurus on to translate most of em to Capt. Dummy talk which to my mind is the problem with college in general, lots of big words and charts to say... yeah it works or no it don't, and here's why... If you use supercalifragilisticexpialadotius in a sentence do you instantly get a doctorate in umbrella flying?)


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 16, 2014)

I ran our schools Koller (University of Idaho). Ours was the tractor mount. It pulled pretty good. Can't move the Skyline up and down with a normal shotgun carriage. The Koller carriage takes a little getting used to but not too bad. Id recommend hanging about 30 or so pounds on the end with a slider so you don't have to pack it to the log. Might of been because of the brush and the fact it was a short yarding distance and we couldn't get much carriage speed to shoot the chokers out but they did not want to hit the ground. They use a brake master cylinder type affair to engage the drum and the one we were running was out of whack or something because you had to pump it up a little bit to get the drum to engage. Pulled pretty good on some smaller logs. Might of had a few at 20" on the butt. The way you tighten the skyline is pretty sketchy (use a bar to engage a dawg or something like that) but if ya keep your fingers out of bad spots you shouldn't lose any.

Slowp - I think OSU has a newer Koller now. Looked exactly like the one you posted. Also running an eaglet on it. My buddy worked on their logging crew this summer. They pulled some pretty nice wood with it. Weren't pecker poles nuther!

Koller says it holds 2250' of 5/16" on the skyline.

Wes


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## northmanlogging (Oct 16, 2014)

Suppose it could pull a 30" 36' log? Even one at a time I could work with. If its not up to that I'll figure something else out.


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 16, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Suppose it could pull a 30" 36' log? Even one at a time I could work with. If its not up to that I'll figure something else out.


Gosh I don't know. Probably have to be pretty short. The one Slowp posted a pic of could I think. Koller NA K300: "Mainline winch: up to 3970 lbs (18kN) at average drum" They said on the current K300 trailer mount its full hydrostatic so maybe it doesn't have that goofy master cylinder gitup, which would be a major improvement in my opinion.

So doing the math. 30" 36' without trim scribner is 1480 bf x 144 in^2 / 1728 in^3 = 123.33 ft^3 googled Coastal DF and it's 38 lb/ft^3 so 123.33 ft^3 is 4,686 pounds. So I guess to answer your question no it wont.

Now if you made it a 26' with trim so 27' it would come in at 3,515 pounds so could then be doable. And probably by the time you factor in the weight of the carriage even that might be iffy. Although I think the carriage isn't anymore than 300 pounds.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 16, 2014)

Thats what I was thinking... but most of the weight would be taken by the skyline, which has a much higher capacity? All the mainline has to do is move the log... Granted most of the work is done by the mainline, since these little yarders are set up for thinning.


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## 2dogs (Oct 16, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Suppose it could pull a 30" 36' log? Even one at a time I could work with. If its not up to that I'll figure something else out.



Not the one we had. IIRC the carriage had a 1,500lb capacity though the yarder could out pull that. At that point it is all about getting enough lift.


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 16, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Thats what I was thinking... but most of the weight would be taken by the skyline, which has a much higher capacity? All the mainline has to do is move the log... Granted most of the work is done by the mainline, since these little yarders are set up for thinning.



That is true the skyline is rated much higher; 9700 pounds to be exact. Small carriage has a load capacity of 3300 pounds and weighs 330 pounds itself.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 16, 2014)

wonder if a shotgun or north bend would maybe get more lift, although a north bend would be tough without a third drum (read impossible). After all if I'm pulling wood that size its most likely a full clear cut anyway, and setting a new road is just a matter of moving the skyline a few feet over. Rather then trying to side yard and miss all the leave trees. 

I've seen pics of em with a motorized carriage as well, but them things is heavy, so it would almost be a moot point.


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## Humptulips (Oct 20, 2014)

I hooked on a Koller for like a year. It was truck mounted and not sure the number but seems like it had 3/4 main and 1/2 skidding. It wasn't a bad little machine for the price. We had the Koller carriage and was impressed by it. Motorized is better but the Koller carriage has everything else beat for ingenuity. Not anything like a Christy carrage. We did brake a hose (actually a steel pipe like a brake line) on the carriage and parts had to come from Austria but they had great service. Only were down two days.
Side note, that carriage in the picture looks like an eagle to me.
One thing you have to look out for when running one of them is that you cannot drop the skyline if something starts to go, at least the one I worked on. Sky line was dogged instead of brakes holding it. You also can't drop a turn fast so if the turn is in the air and things start to go bad things can happen. Make double sure of your guyline stumps because if one starts to pull the tower is likely going down.
We had no problem pulling a turn of 3 18" hemlock. I was surprised what it would pull with that small skidding line.
We had a 25' tower and if you have the same get used to climbing. I rigged more trees then I care to think of. Usually a tail tree and a support tree on every road but often two supports and a tail tree. Even did a couple roads with three supports. Makes me glad I'm retired!


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## KiwiBro (Mar 21, 2015)

Another option here.


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## Skeans (Mar 21, 2015)

Another option maybe a skidder mounted tower once in a blue you'll see one for sale in the area


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging (Mar 22, 2015)

There are several tractor mounted towers in Europe, Koller and maybe one other are the only ones available here.


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