# I think I've talked myself into a tractor



## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

I think I've finally talked myself into a little tractor with a loader. they're running a 60 month 0% offer at the moment.

It's Kubota BX2660. 25.5hp diesel, 4wd. I just grabbed a pic off the net. It'll have the loader and mid mount deck but not the rear blade.

We'll see... I might back out, not sure. It would really be handy around here though. I envision a pair of clamp on pallet forks and box for moving firewood up to the house.

Ian


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## Steve NW WI (Nov 20, 2010)

Whaddya waiting for - just go get the dang thing, you know you want to!


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I think I've finally talked myself into a little tractor with a loader. they're running a 60 month 0% offer at the moment.



Have you gotten your TAD immunization yet?


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

Steve NW WI said:


> Whaddya waiting for - just go get the dang thing, you know you want to!



Yeah, you're asking US for advice on whether to buy? Not the best move.... you want an objective opinion right?


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

HH's predicted TAD progression....


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## 100 Watt (Nov 20, 2010)

You won't believe how you got along without a front loader.
I bought a 33hp Massey with a loader this summer. The original plan was to give it little TLC and sell it. Pocket @ 2K. Tune-up, tires and a good cleaning. I used it a little around the the house after the tune up. 

The hard part was telling the wifey to forget the 2K, we're keeping it. Thankfully she took it well. I believe her response was, "Uh huh,I thought so."


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## RAG66 (Nov 20, 2010)

If there is anyway to avoid financing it would be a good thing... Have you ever done the math on this transaction to see what it will actualy cost you if you pay the entire contract over 60 months. I know you said 0% but what happens if you miss a payment? The equipment is a great idea, the contract is not. Buy a used one and save yourself a headache. Hate to piss in your fruitloops but you can get good used equipment.


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

and so on.... this will be handy for those 4 cord loads.


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## Axe Man (Nov 20, 2010)

They say it's 0% but I'll bet they will take a couple of thousand off their "best" price if you pay cash.Good Luck!


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## deutzman (Nov 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I think I've finally talked myself into a little tractor with a loader. they're running a 60 month 0% offer at the moment.
> 
> It's Kubota BX2660. 25.5hp diesel, 4wd. I just grabbed a pic off the net. It'll have the loader and mid mount deck but not the rear blade.
> 
> ...




It may or may not make a difference to you but some models of Kubota's have cast aluminum rear end. A site I visit from time to time had discussions about this and yes some have had them to break/crack.
So if being cast aluminum rear end makes a difference to you, take a magnet with you to see for yourself. 

My tractor dealer always gave customers magnets to use if they went to a Kubota dealer looking for a compact tractor.


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## WidowMaker (Nov 20, 2010)

I don't know what your intended use is, but the front loader is quite limited on those things, but they are neat arn't they...


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

No response..... he's already at the dealer plunking down the cash and signing the dotted line!

_
That's it... let's get out of this show before it's too late...Too late! _ Monty Python


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

Still walking down that fence... 

Ian


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

deutzman said:


> It may or may not make a difference to you but some models of Kubota's have cast aluminum rear end. A site I visit from time to time had discussions about this and yes some have had them to break/crack.
> So if being cast aluminum rear end makes a difference to you, take a magnet with you to see for yourself.
> 
> My tractor dealer always gave customers magnets to use if they went to a Kubota dealer looking for a compact tractor.



I don't doubt it. I priced Kubota, JD, Mahindra, New Holland, Kioti, TYM, and Massey Ferguson. Kubota was the least expensive across all the brands, even the off brands to my surprise.

Ian


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

Axe Man said:


> They say it's 0% but I'll bet they will take a couple of thousand off their "best" price if you pay cash.Good Luck!



That's like an alcoholic going into the beer store and asking for a discount if he pays cash. 

That salesman _knows_ you've got TAD, he's just waiting for you to get the TD's ( Tractor Delerium ) and cave....


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

But he knows I can wait. I talked to him about the same machine about a year ago. LOL

Ian


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> But he knows I can wait. I talked to him about the same machine about a year ago. LOL
> 
> Ian



.....


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

That's it. You got half the payment...:biggrinbounce2:


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## bigbadbob (Nov 20, 2010)

Neighbor had a slightly larger one this summer, nice tractor enclosed cab.
But I was not impressed with the power of the bucket/forks.
we had a 20x8 ft section of new wharf, 2x6 construction 6 plastic floats.
Had to manually help it lift. A lot of cantalevered weight but,,,, 
It does seem well made. IMHO
But man sure is nice to have a toy to play with!!!!!!:biggrinbounce2:
We are all kids at heart!!! 
You are here but once,, go get it!!!


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

The brochure say the loader is good for 745lbs.

Ian


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## sawkiller (Nov 20, 2010)

That is prolly 745 lbs at the end of the boom. Now what does the bucket weigh? Or the forks? How much leverage do they gain on you the farther they stick out. I would be very impressed if it will lift a 500 lb properly centered load with the forks.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

Ian... for whats it worth... I would not got with the BX series... It might be better to step up to the "L" series... they are built better and tougher... thats just my opinion... I have 3 of em... 2 L's and 1 M series... I have talked with my sales man before and he was telling me how cheaply the bx series is... ( the story was one of the guys stepped up on it and the plastic floor pan cracked)
Also if you go the used route.. an L2850 is one tough mother..... I have seen them used and abused... one I saw traded in actually had no hood or fenders left... they had rusted away.. but the dang thing ran like a top... they are built like tanks.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

also the 0% is a good deal... and if you are late on a payment they just tack on a late fee... KCC ( Kubota Credit Corp ) were very easy to deal with and you can pay online.


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## Walt41 (Nov 20, 2010)

Play the game, get a quote from Kubota then run to the Mahindra dealer and make him beat it, I have both and can honestly say the Mahindra will outlift the orange guy any day of the week and both sets of hydro's are turned up all the way to stupid. Don't skimp on the bucket either, the quick attach will allow you to run all skidsteer attachments.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

one other thing to think about is dealer support.... we have at least 2 Kubota dealers near by. and have been in business a long time... also if you are somewhat mechanically inclined you can do most of the work yourself. there was an online parts dealer that would send you the parts list PDF for free... cant remember which one that was.... been so long ago...


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## BSD (Nov 20, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> Play the game, get a quote from Kubota then run to the Mahindra dealer and make him beat it, I have both and can honestly say the Mahindra will outlift the orange guy any day of the week and both sets of hydro's are turned up all the way to stupid. Don't skimp on the bucket either, the quick attach will allow you to run all skidsteer attachments.


+ 1 on quick attach buckets (skid style). Get something that is universal. it's cheaper and you can find used products from other machines too. bolt on forks are not strong and will tweak a bucket, especially those on the BX series. My father has a bx2350 and its great machine. I borrow it many times a year when my Kubota L48 is too big for a job. That little bx is great but the weak point is the weight of the machine. it will lift enough to pick the ass of the machine off the ground if you don't have a counterweight or vise versa, we have a set of 3pt hitch forks and it'll lift enough to where the front wheels will be off the ground if you hit a slight incline. The mid-mower is very expensive option, you're better off getting a commercial grade walk behind for you money. plus I couldn't imagine mowing with the loader hanging off the front. I use my fathers bx2350 when we aerate lawns and it is a PITA with the loader up front. Overall it's a great machine, but I would book for a B or L series and try to get a few more HP and bigger lift capacitys without much more cost.


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## STLfirewood (Nov 20, 2010)

I would go bigger. I say that because the lifting capacity goes away very quick. Then you end up with a toy. Nice tractor but go as big as you can afford.

Scott


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## Ductape (Nov 20, 2010)

Ian,
Once you have a tractor, you'll wonder why you ever waited so long. Seriously........ do it ! On the BX, I think you'll find the lift capacity is more like 500 lbs. Manufacturers always use grey areas to rate everything, and I'm sure the lift capacity you quoted was at the bucket pins. My free advice is to price out a B2620 also. I feel its considerably more tractor for not much more money. Once you realize how much you can do with all those different attachments that go on the back .......... it will definitely start up a whole new addiction.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

the L series will pick it own ass up easily... have to have a counter weight... like a bushhog or finish mower... 
also skip the mid mount mower... go for a zero turn.. it will cut your time in half.. no joke. .. leave you more time for wood...


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

also if you have a belly mower and get into some marginal ground... and sink.. you are stuck.... I have had my L2850 mud over the front axles and up the rear axle.. and had no problem getting out... the diff lock pedal can be your friend... and 4wd is great for scooping with a loader.


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## kzack (Nov 20, 2010)

HI Ian,

I'll chime in. Keep in mind it is only my opinion.

Seems that tractor might do a lot of things, but maybe not do them well. I think you should honestly analyze your expectations and do some research. Do some reading on tractorbynet.com. If you are only considering something new or near new, you are doing yourself a dis-service. Also, another brand you did not mention is Yanmar. I've *had* a number of tractors, but will always *have* my Yanmar ;-)

Just be honest with yourself and keep your mind open to things beyond what a salesperson says and you will make the right decision.

Good Luck, Keith


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## DSS (Nov 20, 2010)

We have an L series at work and that thing gets the piss beat out of it constantly. I agree they are built like a tank.

Very good tractors IMHO.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

daddy66 said:


> We have an L series at work and that thing gets the piss beat out of it constantly. I agree they are built like a tank.
> 
> Very good tractors IMHO.



we have had our L2850 since 1985... and had been used in and around the chicken houses... mowing, moving firewood .. dirt, stones, dead chickens... manure... ect...


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## DSS (Nov 20, 2010)

Ours is probably ten years old. The guys use it for landscaping, moving pallets of sod, rototilling, scraper blade etc. It has not had an easy life, multiple operators, nobody really looking after it. In the winter we put a blower on it.

No major problems at all, yet.


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## blackdogon57 (Nov 20, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> I would go bigger. I say that because the lifting capacity goes away very quick. Then you end up with a toy. Nice tractor but go as big as you can afford.
> 
> Scott




Read STL's post again. You don't have to spend much more $$ to get a real tractor. Kubota/JD/Massey all make way better machines 30-40hp that are way betterthan that one for not much more cash.


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## ericjeeper (Nov 20, 2010)

Buy a lawn mower or buy a tractor.. No machine does both well.


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## Walt41 (Nov 20, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> Buy a lawn mower or buy a tractor.. No machine does both well.



I mow with my 45 hp Mahindra, I use a 6ft rear finish mower, just go backwards with the bucket all the way up, turns on a dime with 4wd off and A/C in the cab is wonderful on 90+ days.


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 20, 2010)

sawkiller said:


> That is prolly 745 lbs at the end of the boom. Now what does the bucket weigh? Or the forks? How much leverage do they gain on you the farther they stick out. I would be very impressed if it will lift a 500 lb properly centered load with the forks.



Looking back, yes, that is at the pivot. For comparison, I looked at the JD2305 and their bucket is rated for 562lbs at the pin.

I'm still waffling. It won't see any serious farm work. General garden chores will be what it does. It also has to be small and maneuverable enough to mow around trees and such in the yard, so upgrading to a real "tractor" vs an overgrown mower won't be ideal or affordable. I think it would be plenty of tractor for my wants. Problem is just that. They're wants, and I'm coherent enough to realize it. I also can't find the spec for it's rated towing capacity. That's something I'll have to ask. 

The JD LT-180 I have now is eating it's transaxle and I'm either going to have to buy a new mower or put $800 in a 6 year old 2wd mower that isn't heavy duty enough for my lot. Too hilly. It'll just eat another transaxle given a few years. 

I've got 2 more Kubota dealers within driving distance, I'll get quotes from them and see what they can do. This one quoted me $15,100 out the door, after tax. That's a hard chunk to swallow for a mower with a bucket.

Ian


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## some zilch (Nov 20, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> Play the game, get a quote from Kubota then run to the Mahindra dealer and make him beat it, I have both and can honestly say the Mahindra will outlift the orange guy any day of the week and both sets of hydro's are turned up all the way to stupid. Don't skimp on the bucket either, the quick attach will allow you to run all skidsteer attachments.




your not going to be attaching any skid steer attachments to a bx tractor. the option isnt even there; the loader is too narrow, too light-weight, the weight of the quick-tach would take up alot of its lift capacity. my bobcat skid steer forks weigh over 400lbs alone, almost all of a bx's lift capacity. the bx bucket is only like 4ft wide. 

bx tractor, or any other tractor that size, is really just a big lawn mower that can do some "big tractor" stuff. that bucket is way too far in front of the machine to be very useful, other than transporting mulch. its three point hitch may be too small for standard attachments. they are also outrageously priced, electrically complicated, and not *that* heavy duty.

my L4400, new, only cost $1800 more than a BX25. it has 3x the front loader lift, accepts skid steer attachments, can lift 3000+lbs on the three point, and can push a 7ft snow plow blade


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## rottiman (Nov 20, 2010)

I can tell you that you will not be using pallet forks and moving big loads of wood with that loader/tractor combo. The loader is probably designed for about a 400lb. load limit in the bucket. As well you will need to hang at least 300 pds off to back of it for counter weight. I have basically the same tractor, size and configuration, in a Case/Farmall. For moving/lifting any kind of bucket weight you will need to get above the 35 hp class. I have had for three years and really like it, but it has its limitations


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

I have had the bucket full and if I did not have something on the back ... it gets a bit light in the ass end.. 35 HP


and I read somewhere that Kubota under rates their engines.. so they may have a bit more HP than posted


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Looking back, yes, that is at the pivot. For comparison, I looked at the JD2305 and their bucket is rated for 562lbs at the pin.
> 
> I'm still waffling. It won't see any serious farm work. General garden chores will be what it does. It also has to be small and maneuverable enough to mow around trees and such in the yard, so upgrading to a real "tractor" vs an overgrown mower won't be ideal or affordable. I think it would be plenty of tractor for my wants. Problem is just that. They're wants, and I'm coherent enough to realize it. I also can't find the spec for it's rated towing capacity. That's something I'll have to ask.
> 
> ...



$15,100?? I paid that for my L3430... and its a grand L ... its loaded.. it lacks a cab... but thats it...


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 20, 2010)

Oh and if you are going to use it to mow the yard.. you will need the turf tires.


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## Chuck Diesel (Nov 20, 2010)

I bought a 99' JD 4600 w/400hrs. for 16K. Save your money buy used.
Have you looked at a JD 4300? 4200?
Good luck
Chuck D


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## davec (Nov 21, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I'm still waffling. It won't see any serious farm work. General garden chores will be what it does. It also has to be small and maneuverable enough to mow around trees and such in the yard, so upgrading to a real "tractor" vs an overgrown mower won't be ideal or affordable. I think it would be plenty of tractor for my wants. Problem is just that. They're wants, and I'm coherent enough to realize it. I also can't find the spec for it's rated towing capacity. That's something I'll have to ask.
> 
> Ian



C'mon people! Listen to Mr Haywood here. He is not looking for an Ag-industrial tractor. If he understands the limits of the tool, and it fits the job, then it is the right tool. I can't see anyone who would EVER be cross-shopping BX's and L-series tractors. L's are 3x the size of BX's, fer cryin' out loud!

Buy as much Hp and as big of a tractor as you can afford is often good advice, but not when you are looking to mow a half acre (or whatever he's got) plus get some extra utility out of having a bucket for the first time.

And I get it - I wish my L3130 had a bigger engine as I have used the heck out of it this summer and ran up against the power limits, but I bought used, and you always have to make compromises when you buy used. If someone told me I should buy an M as the L's are too small I would laugh at them. It would be way too big for my needs...just like here. He doesn't need a big tractor so stop trying to push him into Strip Mining-sized things for working in the yard! Sheesh! Worse than the 100cc guys over in Chainsaw


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## wdchuck (Nov 21, 2010)

davec said:


> C'mon people! Listen to Mr Haywood here. He is not looking for an Ag-industrial tractor. If he understands the limits of the tool, and it fits the job, then it is the right tool. I can't see anyone who would EVER be cross-shopping BX's and L-series tractors. L's are 3x the size of BX's, fer cryin' out loud!
> 
> Buy as much Hp and as big of a tractor as you can afford is often good advice, but not when you are looking to mow a half acre (or whatever he's got) plus get some extra utility out of having a bucket for the first time.
> 
> And I get it - I wish my L3130 had a bigger engine as I have used the heck out of it this summer and ran up against the power limits, but I bought used, and you always have to make compromises when you buy used. If someone told me I should buy an M as the L's are too small I would laugh at them. It would be way too big for my needs...just like here. He doesn't need a big tractor so stop trying to push him into Strip Mining-sized things for working in the yard! Sheesh! Worse than the 100cc guys over in Chainsaw



There ya go, talkin sense again.


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## wdchuck (Nov 21, 2010)

If it weren't for the palleted firewood demand, our eight acres would be well cared for by half the unit we now have. 

If I had the shopping dollar right now, it would be the smallest or nearly so, 4x4 tractor with loader and either belly mount(expensive) or drag mower to handle all our needs. Cleaning up the 4acres of woods, maintaining the mowable areas, tilling/plowing the two large gardens(1/3ac total), or keeping the 400' of gravel driveway graded. 



Rent what you need, buy what you want. Yes, its a slogan, but does contain merit. 


Plenty of used 4x4 or even 2x4 20something HP tractors with loaders out there, just be patient. 

Have fun shopping, and yes, you must provide photos after delivery or it only exists in your mind.


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## Justsaws (Nov 21, 2010)

It is hard to justify the cost of the new compacts. However, with a width limitation of 48"-50" MAX and a need to pull, push and mow hill beyond the capabilities of the current generation of mass marketed lawn tractors there does not seem to be many other options.

4x4 and a 500# loader would be nice as well. 

I just cannot get past the $$$ most days.

My choices were Kubota, New Holland, Cub, Brownie and a couple others.

Nobody got my $$$ yet. Good luck.


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 21, 2010)

Ok, forks on that light weight bucket are probably a nogo. How about a carryall on the 3 point. Maybe a half pallet stacked 4' tall wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility? Could fill the bucket for counterweight.

Ian


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 21, 2010)

sha....ya could hire me for 5 years ( well, at least for a few weeks anyway )
to do your work for $15k! By then your Kubota will be obsolete and worn out anyway. 

Just think how many migrant workers you could hire for $15,000.

Or, if you can provide, say, a cherry pie every once in a while to the local warden, there's always prison labor. Sure, the quality control may suffer a bit with these last two options....

I know, I know, he wants to do his own work, be in control of the situation.


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## Streblerm (Nov 21, 2010)

FWIW, I have a close friend with a John Deere similar to the Kubota you are looking at. I was admiring it the other day and he told me that if he had to do it over again, he would've gone with a 35hp tractor over the 25hp. His biggest complaint was that the tractor wasn't heavy enough for the loader. It wasn't heavy enough to lift a significant loose load (think gravel) nor was it heavy enough to push into any kind of pile.

As far as the mowing goes, I don't know what the mid mount deck costs, but A zero turn mower is probably one of the best decisions I ever made. I have mowed many an acre with tractors both big and small. I can tell you that the zero turn wins hands down. I cut my mowing time from 4 hrs with a tractor to 1 hour with the zero turn. I can fancy stripe and double cut the lawn in 1.5 hrs. I went from a 60" deck on a tractor to a 48" on the ZTR. If the bulk of the use that your tractor will see is mowing, buy a ZTR.

My plan was to buy a used 35-40 hp 2WD tractor with a loader for playing and the new ZTR for mowing. I haven't gotten to the tractor yet, but the ZTR was the best investment ever. It pays me 2-3 hrs of free time every week from april-november.


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## savageactor7 (Nov 21, 2010)

If I were you I stay away from the MMM. The glory of the 3PH is the easy on/off of the equipment. 







MMM can turn out to be such a goat screw that folks leave them on...

...then go into the woods with them and damage them. Or they must be so careful off the lawn that meaningful production is stifled.


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## Hugenpoet (Nov 21, 2010)

I would suggest that you spend a little time on the Kubota Owning Operating forum at TractorByNet.com. There are a whole lot of guys who own the B series machines and love them. I have a Kubota M7040HD, obviously a little bigger than what you are looking at, and do all of the maintenance work myself. The two online parts suppliers I use for parts are Coleman Equipment Corp and Messick's. Both have good service and fair prices.


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## hanniedog (Nov 21, 2010)

Haywire go to either www.fastline.com or www.tractorhouse.com and search for the tractor you desire. This will give you an idea of whats out there new or used. As for me I got an older (1977) Yanmar 240d. It is 4wd with a loader but has manual tranny and no power steering. It was in my price range and sure saves my back.


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## STLfirewood (Nov 21, 2010)

I have the fix for you. Buy a new ZTR. I have a 43hp John deere diesel tractor. It has 3 point and pto. I'll make you a good deal on that. Watch for a loader and your set for a lot less money. Problem solved when will you be here to get it?:biggrinbounce2:

Scott


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 21, 2010)

You guys are killing me! LOL

I've been over on TBN reading, and found a couple minor problems with the 2660. The plastic cooling fan for the tranny is dangerously exposed without the MMM installed. I did read that they did a mid-production change that incorporated a shield to solve the problem, but if a stick pops up and breaks the fan, you have to pull the engine to replace it. Apparently the drive shaft between the engine and tranny is fixed, non-telescopic so you can't pull it out without removing the engine.

I also read something about a support for the air filter that is too light and breaks from vibration if you run at half throttle a lot. 

The reviews over there are almost entirely 4-5 star. Those that have them just love them to death.

Looked at the commercial Kubota ZTR mowers, and they're $10-12k. Might as well add 3 more to it and get some utility too. 

Ian


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## poorboypaul (Nov 21, 2010)

Just an option. maybe you could rent a bx and an L series for a day and see which you like. We have a BX22. great little tractor. Front loader best invesment for the money. HOWEVER, the are extremely light in the rear end without the backhoe. DEFINITELY put weights or calcium in the rear tires. The are EXTREMELY tippy with a load in the bucket. Also, the hydraulic hoses on the loader are junk. around 700 hrs, We have had to replace every single hose, one after another. Not saying this wouldn't happen with any other brand. But you won't go wrong buying a little bigger. Just depends on how much room you got to run it.
Yes, the transmission cooling fins on ours are trashed.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 21, 2010)

a low end L series is not that big and is built better than the bx series and will have a better resale value plus you will find a boat load of other uses you haven't even thought of yet


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 21, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> sha....ya could hire me for 5 years ( well, at least for a few weeks anyway )
> to do your work for $15k! *By then your Kubota will be obsolete and worn out anyway. *
> 
> Just think how many migrant workers you could hire for $15,000.
> ...



BULL SPIT!!! 
I have 3 Kubota tractors... and they are used in less than ideal conditions... also I know some commercial custom hire people that use Kubotas 6 days a week.. and they are in chicken houses.. ( a really bad enviroment for tractors) and they are over 5 years old and some even over 10 years.. and STILL going strong... 
also hiring migrant ( read illegals) is one thing wrong today .. yes they will work but you are enabling them to stay and continue to bring more of them here


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## deutzman (Nov 21, 2010)

If you've never used a loader you need to be very careful. No tractor comes stock for loader use. They just don't have enough weight. I have a 72 HP farntrac 80, tires loaded and it'll lift 2,600 pounds on the forks. I use it to unload pallets of nitrogen for my hay fields and pastures. I have to be careful and go slow even on flat ground. Most of the time I hook a rotary cutter or a commercial rotary tiller on the 3 pt. to add another 1,500 lbs. so it'll be stable. I've loaded logs and I've had one rear wheel come off the ground. Go slow and react fast if things start to go wrong. If you read a lot on TBN you'll always see and read about guys laying those compact tractors over. Never lift anything any higher than it needs to be lifted. Just because you can lift something doesn't mean you can move with it.

I've seen to many midmount loaders on tractors that the transmission housing breaks. I wouldn't own a mid mount. My farmtrac has 5/8" steel that goes from the front end all the way to the rear axle. I don't worry about the tractor breaking in half.

Once you own a loader tractor you'll wonder how you made it without it. They are handy and save a lot of time. Just be careful.


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 21, 2010)

Jkebxjunke said:


> BULL SPIT!!!
> I have 3 Kubota tractors... and they are used in less than ideal conditions... also I know some commercial custom hire people that use Kubotas 6 days a week.. and they are in chicken houses.. ( a really bad enviroment for tractors) and they are over 5 years old and some even over 10 years.. and STILL going strong...
> also hiring migrant ( read illegals) is one thing wrong today .. yes they will work but you are enabling them to stay and continue to bring more of them here



Man do I LOVE it when sarcasm doesn't type well.....


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## TreePointer (Nov 21, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> I have the fix for you. Buy a new ZTR. I have a 43hp John deere diesel tractor. It has 3 point and pto. I'll make you a good deal on that. Watch for a loader and your set for a lot less money. Problem solved when will you be here to get it?:biggrinbounce2:
> 
> Scott



That's what I would do. ZTR + utility tractor.

+1 on the 43hp diesel John Deere. It's my firewood workhorse:


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## STLfirewood (Nov 21, 2010)

Yours is nicer then mine but not by much. 

Scott


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 21, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> Yours is nicer then mine but not by much.
> 
> Scott



Yours is well seasoned that's all.


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## TreePointer (Nov 21, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> Yours is nicer then mine but not by much.
> 
> Scott



I'm jealous. Yours probably has 10X more metal.


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## iowa (Nov 21, 2010)

Why buy a Kubota ZTR for 10K+??? I bought a 61" Bobcat ZTR for $6000 this spring. 24hp kawasaki full commercial grade with a 5yr warranty for residential use. This warranty beats all other competitors 2yr warranty. Might check them out if you need a mower. I love mine. It's a beast.

My neighbor has a 54" Kubota ZTR with a 25 or 26hp kohler. He can't even come close to keeping up with my bobcat. I know he gave over $5000 for it used! With NO warranty.


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## STLfirewood (Nov 21, 2010)

TreePointer said:


> I'm jealous. Yours probably has 10X more metal.



I feel bad now I'll trade you even up. 

Scott


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## TreePointer (Nov 21, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> I feel bad now I'll trade you even up.
> 
> Scott



Heehee! Undo your wear & tear back to 450 hours on a small farm and I'll consider it.


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## davec (Nov 21, 2010)

Jkebxjunke said:


> a low end L series is not that big and is built better than the bx series and will have a better resale value plus you will find a boat load of other uses you haven't even thought of yet



I know you have an L (as do I), but there really aren't smaller and bigger ones in the series. Well not physically smaller/bigger. All L's are the same basic frame. They put larger engines in the same frame, and the hood grows to fit the engines on the larger end, but the overall size is basically the same. The only other changes they make are they use smaller tires standard on the small engine versions, and move up to bigger tires on the larger engines, but you can option the tires up. My L3130 has the smallest engine, but has the larger tires (bought it used - came that way).

Kubota has a huge display at the Minn State Fair every year, and seeing the various models side by side shows there is a _*huge *_difference among the BX-B-L series in physical size.

Right tool for the job. If a BX fits the bill, then an L will be way too big, IMHO.


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## Guido Salvage (Nov 21, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I've got 2 more Kubota dealers within driving distance, I'll get quotes from them and see what they can do. This one quoted me $15,100 out the door, after tax. That's a hard chunk to swallow for a mower with a bucket.



The problem is that you have been looking at this from your wife's point of view, i.e. from a practical standpoint. However, you are a man and your life is about tools. Many tools....

Why spend $15K on a new tractor that may or may not do the job and you will be afraid to take into the woods for fear of getting it scratched? You need to go with the Guido Salvage plan as outlined below. All this is predicated on a $15,000 investment and your ability to spend that amount.

* Find a small agricultural tractor (35-45 HP) with a loader, 3 point hitch, PTO and power steering. Look for something that is fairly low hour and is well taken care of. For the purposes of this exercise, we will set the budget at $10,000.

* Get a low hour zero turn mower for the yard. The time you save will give you more time on the tractor and in the woods with your saw. This will cost $4,000.

* Buy a new saw, a nice Stihl, Husky or J-red in the $600 range.

* Take the remaining $400 and take your wife to dinner, a show and a night at a romantic bed and breakfast. 

For your $15,000 you have 3 pieces of equipment and a happy wife. Life is good...


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 21, 2010)

Problem with that scenario is that I don't have any woods to take it to. It will probably never leave the yard. 

Also, my luck with used vehicles is such that if I bought a used anything, I would immediately have to pay to have it overhauled and would end up with the same amount of cash outlay anyway. I could buy a used hammer and lose out somehow. :help:

Ian


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## 100 Watt (Nov 22, 2010)

My neighbor has the same Kubota you're looking at. He ,like you, has no woods, just a 3acre lot with some trees. He basically only mows with it. Mowing with the loader on sure seems to be a PITA. Dodging trees and the house. Definately much slower than a zero turn. Probably not much different than your current lawn tractor. The loader is certainly limited do to size but, ever tool has it's designed purpose.

If you're definately going get one, go to the bank and get financing on a used one. There are plenty out there that only used as a mower. Not tore up by using it betyond its capabilities. Tons cheaper. You'll know if it's wore out or not. Good luck to you. Remember the hunt is the best part.


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## atvguns (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Problem with that scenario is that I don't have any woods to take it to. It will probably never leave the yard.
> 
> Also, my luck with used vehicles is such that if I bought a used anything, I would immediately have to pay to have it overhauled and would end up with the same amount of cash outlay anyway. I could buy a used hammer and lose out somehow. :help:
> 
> Ian



Sounds like you need to buy some woods then you can justify a real tractor and make everyone happy:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Nov 22, 2010)

Can I borrow it?:biggrinbounce2:


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## beerman6 (Nov 22, 2010)

atvguns said:


> Sounds like you need to buy some woods then you can justify a real tractor and make everyone happy:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



:greenchainsaw:


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## captjack (Nov 22, 2010)

here is a 5k used kubota tractor. - with the 10k i saved I can buy a lot of implements. I will echo the L series over the B series if your moving wood around. Its not hp with tractors its weight. The thing I like about the older tractors is that there is a lot less to go wrong - they are "rears and gears" You will have a hard time hurting one of those machines. Mine is over worked all the time and its going strong . Mine is only 24 hp


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 22, 2010)

atvguns said:


> Sounds like you need to buy some woods then you can justify a real tractor and make everyone happy:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



It'd be cheaper too... no wait :monkey:

Just what kind of place are you livin' in HH? No woods? You ain't one of them-thar FLAT landers are ya?


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 22, 2010)

*Small Tractor*

Hey there HH,
you might also take a gander (if you haven't already) at the compact class Bobcat tractors,... I fully intend to buy a 55-65hp Massey or Mahindra asap, but had the need to rent a 35hp Bobcat 4wd recently to mow my small horse pasture (about 4 acres). It wasn't a lot bigger than the Kubota you're referencing, but was pretty impressive with it's capabilities. It had enough weight to have authority over it's bucket, but was light enough to tow on a reasonable car trailer (with attached bush hog mower). The turning radius was very good and the economy was excellent. I quickly found the machine's limits while moving dirt and gravel, (not hard to do when you're used to 85hp and up class farm tractors) but was amazed by the utility that the machine provided. I'm not trying to sell it, but rather just relating my personal experiences. If I didn't want to move/push/drag bigger loads, I'd seriously look at it or a similar sized tractor. 

If you're dead-set on the BX - GET IT! If you basically want a heavier duty mower with some added utility, then you're on the right track. If you want to do bigger things (you'll be amazed how quickly you'll try to,...) then get a good new or used ZTR and then a 1,000hr or less 35-35hp tractor with a 3pt, pto, 5' loader bucket or better and laugh all the way to the bank. 2wd will accomplish a lot of things, 4wd will just do it easier, while tearing up less ground. It's also a blast in the mud or snow.... My 0.02 -Good luck with your choice!


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## logbutcher (Nov 22, 2010)

Cripes: suburban man toys. 
First you'll need a woodlot to play in.
Then.......

An excellent story about why we did not buy a tractor to manage the woodlots.

1. Any AWD tractor is big $$$: an easy $20,000. and that's with a minimum of attachments.

2. Loud colors: orange, red, green.

3. Don't do well in confined, bony, wet, rolling woodlands.

4. High COG--easy to tip on uneven ground.

5. That + $20,000. buys a lot of ATV machine ( e.g. Honda Foreman ), trailer,
new, larger saws, expensive Ranger boots, and, and, plus a few trips or cruises.

6. Exercise: you do need to move that body.......don't you ?

Butt: you want it, and you want it now. So get it. You've got the bucks.:jester:


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 22, 2010)

Pulled the trigger an hour ago. It'll be here in a few days.

Ian


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Pulled the trigger an hour ago. It'll be here in a few days.
> 
> Ian



ok, Veruca. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4


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## dustytools (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Pulled the trigger an hour ago. It'll be here in a few days.
> 
> Ian



Cool, now we need to have another mini GTG at your place so I can check out your new toy. Here is mine, still looking for a FEL for it. View attachment 158951


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 22, 2010)

Bah, you got one of those "real" tractors. hehe. I am going to get some vinyl letters and put "wanna be" on the road hazard diamond that comes on mine.

Ian


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## Jredsjeep (Nov 22, 2010)

its all talk until we see pics:greenchainsaw:

i have one of those old tractors, one of the best investments i have made. i am sure you will love it. sometimes i wish i had some of the newer features that make them nice to operate, but i do love having a tractor around.

like others have mentioned, you start finding all kinds of new uses for them.


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## Gologit (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Pulled the trigger an hour ago. It'll be here in a few days.
> 
> Ian



Can I borrow it?


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## Alan Smith (Nov 22, 2010)

haywire haywood said:


> pulled the trigger an hour ago. It'll be here in a few days.
> 
> Ian


 on what size .when will we see pics?


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 22, 2010)

Alan Smith said:


> on what size .when will we see pics?



Kubota BX2660. 25.5hp diesel, 4wd, dual range hydro tranny, class 1 3pt hitch, 540rpm rear pto, 60" belly mower, loader.

He said it would be here in a couple days, but since this is a short week, I just assume that it will be early next week. It would be nice to play with it on the long weekend though.

Ian


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## 1harlowr (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds like for what you are wanting out of the tractor, you made the right call. The L series would hnave been more than you needed even though not much more money. 
I've got a JD that's in the L3400 class. I wouldn't want anything smaller but I have different uses for mine.
Congrats.


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## Guido Salvage (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> He said it would be here in a couple days, but since this is a short week, I just assume that it will be early next week. It would be nice to play with it on the long weekend though.



Tell them to ship it Fed Ex....


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## davec (Nov 22, 2010)

You didn't get an L? Sheesh - this one is too small!!! :jester:

opcorn::yoyo:

Seriously - Should be fun. Enjoy!


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## Hugenpoet (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Kubota BX2660. 25.5hp diesel, 4wd, dual range hydro tranny, class 1 3pt hitch, 540rpm rear pto, 60" belly mower, loader.
> 
> He said it would be here in a couple days, but since this is a short week, I just assume that it will be early next week. It would be nice to play with it on the long weekend though.
> 
> Ian



Congrats, good choice. You're gonna have a lot of fun with that machine.


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## Ductape (Nov 22, 2010)

Congratulations ! Now you need a PTO chipper and about twenty other attachments.


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 22, 2010)

I think the first thing I am going to cobble together is a 3 pt carry all to take firewood from the wood shed up to the house. Something that will take a 4'Wx18"D pallet stacked about 4' high. Probably won't be buying any fancy attachments till I get the note paid down substantially.

Ian


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## slowp (Nov 22, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Can I borrow it?



Hey, I asked first! Be sure and get the snowblower attachment. I'll want to borrow that also. 

Congratulations. Now ship it out here!


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 22, 2010)

No blower... you'll have to make do with the bucket.


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 22, 2010)

speaking of snow blowers.. I just bought one...


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I think the first thing I am going to cobble together is a 3 pt carry all to take firewood from the wood shed up to the house. Something that will take a 4'Wx18"D pallet stacked about 4' high. Probably won't be buying any fancy attachments till I get the note paid down substantially.
> 
> Ian



check this out...

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CARRY-ALL-TRACTOR-3-PT-FORKS-John-Deere-Kubota-etc-/360318481273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e4a7b379


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## slowp (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> No blower... you'll have to make do with the bucket.



Oh well, I tried. I still have my Finlander made in the U.P. snow scoop. 'Cept the flames fell off the sides so it won't be as fast. Maybe I better wax it.

Got chains? I might need those on it.


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 22, 2010)

slowp said:


> Oh well, I tried. I still have my Finlander made in the U.P. snow scoop. 'Cept the flames fell off the sides so it won't be as fast. Maybe I better wax it.
> 
> Got chains? I might need those on it.



Do they still have any of them Turdypointbucks up there in the U.P????? lol


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## Guido Salvage (Nov 22, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I think the first thing I am going to cobble together is a 3 pt carry all to take firewood from the wood shed up to the house. Something that will take a 4'Wx18"D pallet stacked about 4' high. Probably won't be buying any fancy attachments till I get the note paid down substantially.



I would just check with your local Southern States, Tractor Supply or Fleet & Farm store and buy a prefab carryall platform. You can then put whatever size wood or box on it that you need.


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 22, 2010)

Locust Cutter said:


> Do they still have any of them Turdypointbucks up there in the U.P????? lol



This guy might be able to tell ya, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymRrK9veu7E


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## Justsaws (Nov 23, 2010)

Congratulations. Enjoy the machine.


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## 23putts (Nov 23, 2010)

Congrats on your new tractor. Im holding out for an L4400. Got 40 acres to play on and a mile of private drive to maintain.

Keep an eye on CL and you will find some great deals on attachments.


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## fiasco (Nov 23, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> This guy might be able to tell ya, eh?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymRrK9veu7E



Love Bill Holmes's rally truck in the background! I like to play with (other people's) rally cars when I'm not playing with chainsaws...


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 23, 2010)

A buddy of mine said to start going to farm auctions. He saw a PTO tiller go for $125 recently. I thought I might be able to make a nickel or two tilling gardens in the spring if I had such a contraption.

Ian


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## slowp (Nov 23, 2010)

Locust Cutter said:


> Do they still have any of them Turdypointbucks up there in the U.P????? lol



Out here it would be a fifteen point buck. I don't speak yooper too good, you knoooooowwwwwwwww, eh.


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 23, 2010)

fiasco said:


> Love Bill Holmes's rally truck in the background! I like to play with (other people's) rally cars when I'm not playing with chainsaws...



Ya, same here. Those rally cars, der almost as expensive as buying tractors, almost...

Bill Holmes was about the only serious truck guy running SCCA PRO Rally back then. He was always at a handicap compared to the top cars of course, but always a crowd fave when he came through a stage.



_Man, if I hadn't lost my head, I only had a couple a years to do, but when I saw you tearin' down the road in that truck..... _


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## KMB (Nov 23, 2010)

Congrats Ian. I've been following this thread and reading all the reasons for a bigger tractor, and I think I would be in the same situation as you and your needs. For me the loader and a small bush hog (whatever size is available for that tractor) would be perfect for me. Well to make it perfect...I would need to get the dump trailer...

I'm looking forward to reading about your experiences with your new toy...I mean tool...

Kevin


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## Steve NW WI (Nov 24, 2010)

slowp said:


> Out here it would be a fifteen point buck. I don't speak yooper too good, you knoooooowwwwwwwww, eh.



Dat's a problem mostly caused by missing fingers and such. Friggin westerners can't usually count to 10, much less 12. Here's my buddy's buck, 12 points, 13 if ya count the split brow tine as 2, had it green scored in the low 170s

Stupid "smart" phone is acting up again, will post a pic once it decides to cooperate [email protected]@@@


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## beerman6 (Nov 24, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> A buddy of mine said to start going to farm auctions. He saw a PTO tiller go for $125 recently. I thought I might be able to make a nickel or two tilling gardens in the spring if I had such a contraption.
> 
> Ian



Good advice.

Just make sure you have an idea of what a new piece will run,I've been to a few auctions where the bidders will run the price up to dang near what you would pay for it new.


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## mike reynolds (Nov 24, 2010)

Try to avoid the financing if you can. Before I bought a used Kabota 10 years ago my grading contractor friend told me "you'll be amazed with how much you will use it" He was SOO RIGHT! But be carefull because tractors like to multiply as I have since picked up a Scat Track skid Steer with a much needed grapple. a John Deere BackHoe, an old 1947 Oliver, a '48 Farmall Cub to restore and just finised restoring a 1940 Farmall M! Now, I'm tractor happy er... I have the a few more tools I realy need to get the job done (I tell my wife)


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## savageactor7 (Nov 24, 2010)

Congratulations...why don't you just carry your wood in the bucket?


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 24, 2010)

I anticipate the bucket being on the small side for moving any decent quantity of firewood. A rack on the 3pt would hold a lot more. Will probably fill the bucket at the same time for counterweight.

Ian


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## Jredsjeep (Nov 24, 2010)

you could build something like i did for cheap

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=153929&highlight=

those forks are real handy for moving all kinds of stuff now.


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 24, 2010)

Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about just smaller. I figure the forks about 18" long for a half pallet with a back and some kind of side supports so I can stack the wood up about 4'.

Ian


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## Jredsjeep (Nov 24, 2010)

that would probubly be heavy enough for your machine. i dont have a front end loader on it now but my tractor is a 53 NAA with allot of steel and lifting a full pallet stacked up 4ft high makes my front end light. i can walk to the front of my tractor and lift it with one arm.

i am planning on making a snow plow mount to add some needed weight, its on my round-to-it list.:biggrinbounce2:


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## hossmp2500 (Nov 24, 2010)

Congratulations, Kubota makes a great tractor and the bx series has a huge following. I grew up and still work on a farm and have been around all of the major brands over the years. Last summer (09) we purchased a Grand L series tractor with loader to handle a few few tasks. Its a great machine. Its my first experience with Kubota as a tractor not just an engine. 

If you want to leave the bucket on for snow you can always build something to give your tractor the ballast it needs to fully utilize the loader and at the same time it can haul some wood. I have a New Holland tc35d that I keep at my house for different tasks. It has a ballast box or attachment on at all times. If I didnt have the capability to carry as much as I do in the bucket I would definatly build a box that can carry wood and act as an adjustable weight ballast for when I wanted to pick up more with the front. 

There is a guy that is a few doors down that has the same BX tractor and he has the front mount snow blower. If you dont want to spend any more money for a while dont watch someone use one. Its enough to make someone want to get a BX and front mount blower just to take care of snow.

Best of luck with it, I am sure it will serve you for many years to come.


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## Gologit (Nov 24, 2010)

slowp said:


> Hey, I asked first! Be sure and get the snowblower attachment. I'll want to borrow that also.
> 
> Congratulations. Now ship it out here!



You don't need it.


Hey Ian, never mind her...just get a little logging winch installed and I can use it for all the jobs the D-6 is too big for. Go ahead and ship it out here...I'll let you know how it works out in a professional setting. Uh, it _does_ have a full roll cage doesn't it?


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 24, 2010)

Gologit said:


> You don't need it.
> 
> 
> Hey Ian, never mind her...just get a little logging winch installed and I can use it for all the jobs the D-6 is too big for. Go ahead and ship it out here...I'll let you know how it works out in a professional setting. Uh, it _does_ have a full roll cage doesn't it?



Roll Cage???? You've got a helmet right?


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 24, 2010)

Just a fixed rops. I wanna put some KC lights on it. Just got back from the dealer, thought I'd drop in to see what info they need for me, and what do ya know, my tractor is there. They're prepping it and I might have it tonight. Friday morning at the latest. 

Ian


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## Guido Salvage (Nov 24, 2010)

mike reynolds said:


> But be carefull because tractors like to multiply...



So true, at one time I had 25 tractors and crawlers, I am now down to 10 (sold one last month). Just dragged out a Cockshutt 20 that hadn't run in 7 years and got it going. Luckily all the gas drained out so I did not have to deal with cleaning the tank, lines and carburetor. Now to find a way to drag my small blade out from behind my deal Oliver Super 55 before the snow comes.


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 24, 2010)

Ok, first load of wood up to the house with the bucket. :hmm3grin2orange:

Ian


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## KMB (Nov 24, 2010)

Looks good! Is that mower deck easy to remove and reattach?

Kevin


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## dustytools (Nov 24, 2010)

Nice machine Ian. Congrats.


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 24, 2010)

KMB said:


> Looks good! Is that mower deck easy to remove and reattach?
> 
> Kevin



Thanks, couldn't tell you how to remove either the bucket or the deck. I've got a lot to learn.



dustytools said:


> Nice machine Ian. Congrats.



It's larger than it looks. It's huge compared to my old mower. I'm going to like it, but I've got to learn how to run it first. The pedal arrangement is different than I am used to. I'm going to have to do some trading in the spring and swap my 5x8 trailer in for a 6x10 so I can transport it.

Ian


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 24, 2010)

Looks good.. the bucket I believe is held on with 2 pins... fold down the stand .. pull the pins roll the bucket back it pops loose... disconnect the hydro lines.. and back away... 

One tip... when you mow.. be sure to put it in 2WD or when you turn you will tear up grass with the front wheels... ( don't ask me how I know this :hmm3grin2orange


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## Ductape (Nov 24, 2010)

Hey, it DID show up early ! Congrats....... you'll be wondering how you ever lived without out it by next month. 

Enjoy getting the hang of it over the long weekend. :chainsawguy:


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 24, 2010)

Ductape said:


> Hey, it DID show up early ! Congrats....... you'll be wondering how you ever lived without out it by next month.
> 
> Enjoy getting the hang of it over the long weekend. :chainsawguy:



:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2: I might need to come borrow that,.... What's the distance from Kansas to,....


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## davec (Nov 25, 2010)

Sweet! You need some "orange" rep!

But I have to say it sure looks darn cute as a button! :biggrinbounce2: I've gotten used to the size of my L, which felt huge to me at first...


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## Haywire Haywood (Nov 25, 2010)

My wife said she's just happy the tractor isn't 22 years old, with blonde hair, blue eyes and D cups. ROFL

Ian


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 25, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> My wife said she's just happy the tractor isn't 22 years old, with blonde hair, blue eyes and D cups. ROFL
> 
> Ian



those cost alot more than $15k LOL


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## Locust Cutter (Nov 25, 2010)

Jkebxjunke said:


> those cost alot more than $15k LOL



Yeah and the warranties' crap,... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Jkebxjunke (Nov 25, 2010)

and you thought the TSA would be rough on your junk.... let the wifey find out about one of those.....:chainsawguy:


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