# Rent a Bucket Truck or Hire the Job Out?



## Missel (Mar 16, 2017)

I have several large cottonwood trees in my backyard that I'd like to remove completely and a few I'd like to take some height off. They are just shi**y trees that drop large branches once in awhile and I get nervous when the kids are playing out back. They are approximately 100' tall and 3+' in diameter. I got a quote for $15k which seems quite high to me. I've cut down a large maple before from an 85' bucket truck and am considering that option but would rather hire this one out but I just cannot afford $15k! Looking from some feedback on the feasibility of doing this myself or recommendations on a company/individual in the area (Rochester, NY) who would do the work at a more reasonable price. Thanks!


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 16, 2017)

Dude, that is $65 per man hour with a five man crew for five day's, you are stupid if you think you can do better than that, 
besides, what knowledge do you have in this industry to question compensation?
I would bid it twice that because because of your attitude, sorry, no offense intended, 
Jeff


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## crotchclimber (Mar 16, 2017)

$15K sounds about right for all those trees; you might be able to find a company do do it for a couple thousand less but you didn't say what the most you were willing to pay is. You had better be very experienced at tree work and have an experienced helper if you are going to take this on yourself.


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## Missel (Mar 16, 2017)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dude, that is $65 per man hour with a five man crew for five day's, you are stupid if you think you can do better than that,
> besides, what knowledge do you have in this industry to question compensation?
> I would bid it twice that because because of your attitude, sorry, no offense intended,
> Jeff



It was quoted as a single day job with a 5 man crew so that would total $375 per man hour! Where did you get a 5 day job from? Also not sure what attitude you are referring to...I joined the forum to get honest opinions from professionals not to argue with someone across the country about basic math


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 16, 2017)

Missel said:


> It was quoted as a single day job with a 5 man crew so that would total $375 per man hour! Where did you get a 5 day job from? Also not sure what attitude you are referring to...I joined the forum to get honest opinions from professionals not to argue with someone across the country about basic math



Do you believe that is a one day job?
Jeff


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## david1332 (Mar 16, 2017)

Definitely not a one day job , thats a lot of wood to move and a lot of heavy pieces to rig down . 

A lot of things factor into pricing for these big jobs. Equipment access, disposal prices, obstacles, price of living, etc. 

Not to mention that removing 100' tall 3' wide trees is no fun and not easy . 

How many trees are there total?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 17, 2017)

Missel said:


> It was quoted as a single day job with a 5 man crew so that would total $375 per man hour! Where did you get a 5 day job from? Also not sure what attitude you are referring to...I joined the forum to get honest opinions from professionals not to argue with someone across the country about basic math



Who is saying it's a 5 day job?


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## rarefish383 (Mar 17, 2017)

Get a price for the pro to put them on the ground and you do the clean up. There's a bunch of man hours in the clean up. Get a dumpster dropped off. Around here you can get a big dumpster for about $350 loaded with yard waste, Joe.


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## Missel (Mar 17, 2017)

rarefish383 said:


> Get a price for the pro to put them on the ground and you do the clean up. There's a bunch of man hours in the clean up. Get a dumpster dropped off. Around here you can get a big dumpster for about $350 loaded with yard waste, Joe.


That's a good idea rarefish. My town will take the wood away once I get it to the curb so that's not a problem. How much do you think the price would drop? 50% or so? Thanks


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## 661Joe (Mar 17, 2017)

A lot of work there. Also something to think about is how much time you will have to put in it to get 3' wood to the curb... and cottonwood is very heavy it's just so wet.. that's a task for sure. Good luck


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## david1332 (Mar 17, 2017)

Depends on


Missel said:


> That's a good idea rarefish. My town will take the wood away once I get it to the curb so that's not a problem. How much do you think the price would drop? 50% or so? Thanks


 it really depends on the company. If the company has a lot of machinery to move the wood then not that much . If they're a smaller outfit with less equipment then it will drop more.
But I highly doubt in either case it would be near 50%since they'll still have to handle all the wood since you can't just pile it up in the drop zone.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 17, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Who is saying it's a 5 day job?



I did, why?
Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 17, 2017)

What's going on Jeffrey? Still a bully i see


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## Mustang71 (Mar 18, 2017)

Not sure how many trees u have but I live about halfway between buffalo and Rochester. About 7 years ago when my grandma was still alive she paid around 2 grand to have a willow removed that was 3 feet in diameter. They removed all the debris except for the wood chips from the stump grinding.

My parents neighbor had some "tree service" take some of theirs down and there was a lot of close calls and we were over there helping... it was cheap...

How much work do you want to do? If it were me I'd find someone who could cut them down for me and I'd do the rest assuming it was a lot cheaper that way. I also heat with wood so that helps my motivation.


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## rarefish383 (Mar 18, 2017)

There is an old saying, " You can have it done fast, you can have it done cheap, and you can have it done safe, but not all 3. Quality, safe work cost more than sloppy fast work. I can't see what's in the near side of the pic? Your house? If it's 100 yards to any structure you maybe able to open a hole and then drop everything. But I can't see that far from where I live. By looking at the picture I don't know which trees come down, a bunch look like leaners that will take skill and rigging. If the estimate said it was a 1 day job, that sounds a bit pricey, so call 2 more guys and see how far apart they are. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was not walking all the way down in a yard, and giving a price, standing on the back porch. Then show up to do the job and the tree was twice as big as it looked. I couldn't begin to guess if it's a good or bad deal from MD. My best advice is get a second opinion, and tell them, "just get it on the ground and I'll clean it up". But, when you do that, you will more than likely have a giant crisscrossed pile of brush and wood. They won't be able to stack the brush here and the wood there. That's just as much, or more, work for them as doing the job as they go with a plan, Joe.


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## mckeetree (Mar 19, 2017)

Cheap or broke people just need to leave their trees alone.


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## no tree to big (Mar 19, 2017)

5 grand and I'll bring a couple guys and make the biggest mess you can imagine back there. I'll put em all on the ground log length no cleanup. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## JTM (Mar 19, 2017)

I had a climber come out and cut all the limbs from the trunk off two huge catalpa trees. I handled the wood. Took the guy about two hours if that. Took me two days to move that tangled mess using a chainsaw and a tractor. Would have gladly paid the extra for his crew to deal with it.


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## Big Natey (Mar 20, 2017)

All I'm saying is that is a **** load of brush to hand load into a dumpster. Putting it on the ground is the fun part, getting it out of your yard is where the work begins.


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## no tree to big (Mar 20, 2017)

Stop telling him that I want to go have some funnn. He could go rent a 6" chipper and over a weekend chip all the small stuff. Or better yet rent a slightly biggrr chipper be on site with a couple Buddies while we cut they can run it all through a chipper as we go. It looks like all those trees were topped years ago, all the regrowth looks like easy peasy chippable material. Blow the tops out throw the climber a bottle of water let them chip for a few mins then start loggin! 
It'll look like a mine field when we're done but nothing a couple wheelbarrows of dirt won't fix. Dirt is cheap. 
Come on Missel I've never been to NY b4 I'm down for a road trip!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Missel (Mar 20, 2017)

no tree to big said:


> Stop telling him that I want to go have some funnn. He could go rent a 6" chipper and over a weekend chip all the small stuff. Or better yet rent a slightly biggrr chipper be on site with a couple Buddies while we cut they can run it all through a chipper as we go. It looks like all those trees were topped years ago, all the regrowth looks like easy peasy chippable material. Blow the tops out throw the climber a bottle of water let them chip for a few mins then start loggin!
> It'll look like a mine field when we're done but nothing a couple wheelbarrows of dirt won't fix. Dirt is cheap.
> Come on Missel I've never been to NY b4 I'm down for a road trip!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



Now that's the type of response I was looking for!


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## Mustang71 (Mar 21, 2017)

Drop me off a load of the logs I'm on the way back haha


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## ropensaddle (Mar 21, 2017)

Missel said:


> I have several large cottonwood trees in my backyard that I'd like to remove completely and a few I'd like to take some height off. They are just shi**y trees that drop large branches once in awhile and I get nervous when the kids are playing out back. They are approximately 100' tall and 3+' in diameter. I got a quote for $15k which seems quite high to me. I've cut down a large maple before from an 85' bucket truck and am considering that option but would rather hire this one out but I just cannot afford $15k! Looking from some feedback on the feasibility of doing this myself or recommendations on a company/individual in the area (Rochester, NY) who would do the work at a more reasonable price. Thanks!
> View attachment 565388


I'll do it for 40kCottonwood stinks won't hinge breaks if you step over 3 feet out on a huge limb. Did I say i don't like cottonwood and it stinks? That is a lot of it too; seriously 15k too cheap.


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## Missel (Mar 21, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> I'll do it for 40kCottonwood stinks won't hinge breaks if you step over 3 feet out on a huge limb. Did I say i don't like cottonwood and it stinks? That is a lot of it too; seriously 15k too cheap.



They smell like a swamp, their limbs are heavy and weak, they drop leaves at least a foot deep in the fall, and it snows fluff for weeks in the summer completely covering window screens...and that's why I want them gone!

BTW I have several companies coming to give me quotes.


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## anymanusa (Mar 22, 2017)

Them trees aren't 100' and New York is the reason for that exorbitant price.


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## Missel (Mar 22, 2017)

anymanusa said:


> Them trees aren't 100' and New York is the reason for that exorbitant price.



You're right they aren't 100' tall they're actually 116' tall! NYC is expensive not upstate NY.


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## Mustang71 (Mar 22, 2017)

Yea, not so sure about that. New York does suck in a lot of ways but this area of New York is pretty cheap to live in. Sales tax on 15k would be a lot almost 9 percent.


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## anymanusa (Mar 22, 2017)

Missel said:


> You're right they aren't 100' tall they're actually 116' tall! NYC is expensive not upstate NY.


The swing rope isn't quite 10' (go measure it if you doubt me) and the tree isn't anywhere near 10x the length of the rope.


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## no tree to big (Mar 22, 2017)

We don't pay sales tax on services here in IL do you in NY?

Yea those trees are no way 100' maybe 70' to the tips of the tallest. The difference between 70 and 100 sounds like a little but in reality it makes a lot more work. And those trees if they ever do make it to 100 will be very dangerous do to the previous topping 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## 300zx_tt (Mar 22, 2017)

Why don't you call 5-10 reputable tree companies and get prices. Be specific with what you want and tell the companies the exact same thing. I bid jobs all the time where people say maybe we could do "this or this", put it in the estimate. Then when I'm $1200 bucks higher than the other guy that didn't bid "this and this" they say you are too high this guy is $1200 lower than you. But they didn't have the other guy bid the same work... You can't compare prices unless the work being quoted is EXACTLY THE SAME.


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## Missel (Mar 22, 2017)

anymanusa said:


> The swing rope isn't quite 10' (go measure it if you doubt me) and the tree isn't anywhere near 10x the length of the rope.



The swing branch is actually 18' tall so ya they are over 100' tall!



no tree to big said:


> We don't pay sales tax on services here in IL do you in NY?
> 
> Yea those trees are no way 100' maybe 70' to the tips of the tallest. The difference between 70 and 100 sounds like a little but in reality it makes a lot more work. And those trees if they ever do make it to 100 will be very dangerous do to the previous topping
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



The quote I received had tax as a line item so I guess we do pay tax on services which is BS but that's the way NY is. The trees are indeed or 100' and yes they are very dangerous!


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## Mustang71 (Mar 22, 2017)

Well I don't know. We don't pay tax on capital improvements like furnaces ac's water heaters and so on. I'm getting a garage door and there's no tax but I don't think trees are capital improvement.

*Missel* have you called your insurance company to see if they will cover any of the removal if they are dangerous? I have herd sometimes they will.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2017)

no tree to big said:


> We don't pay sales tax on services here in IL do you in NY?
> 
> Yea those trees are no way 100' maybe 70' to the tips of the tallest. The difference between 70 and 100 sounds like a little but in reality it makes a lot more work. And those trees if they ever do make it to 100 will be very dangerous do to the previous topping
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


A climber is just as dead falling 25 feet as he is falling 75 feet I agree however here was a hunerd footer only half of it can be seen!!!


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## Missel (Mar 23, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> A climber is just as dead falling 25 feet as he is falling 75 feet I agree however here was a hunerd footer only half of it can be seen!!!



Very true


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## anymanusa (Mar 23, 2017)

Why are you intent on an 18' swing rope? It sure doesn't look like that. It looks 10' at most.

I bet you don't post a pic of a person standing at the base of that tree.


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## Missel (Mar 23, 2017)

anymanusa said:


> Why are you intent on an 18' swing rope? It sure doesn't look like that. It looks 10' at most.
> 
> I bet you don't post a pic of a person standing at the base of that tree.



hahaha...I insist because I used a F'n tape measure! If I were to post a picture of someone standing next to it I'm sure you'll question the authenticity of the picture or the height of the person or maybe even imply I used a midget stunt double. The picture was also taken from 200' away, not right at the base of the tree like your pic. Get over it man they are way taller than you think


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## anymanusa (Mar 23, 2017)

Missel said:


> hahaha...I insist because I used a F'n tape measure! If I were to post a picture of someone standing next to it I'm sure you'll question the authenticity of the picture or the height of the person or maybe even imply I used a midget stunt double. The picture was also taken from 200' away, not right at the base of the tree like your pic. Get over it man they are way taller than you think


I didn't post a picture, but thanks for the explanation. 

Man I'm just messin' with ya. I'm sure they are 116' if you say so.


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## no tree to big (Mar 23, 2017)

Is that a set of 3 phase running right next to the trees?

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## Missel (Mar 23, 2017)

no tree to big said:


> Is that a set of 3 phase running right next to the trees?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


About 70' away from powerlines


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## david1332 (Mar 23, 2017)

No way that's 70' lol


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## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2017)

david1332 said:


> No way that's 70' lol


 the spruce would need to be 70 for that cottonwood to be 100 let alone 116 lol something does not add up. I'm thinking 75 to 85 footer. Like this one was


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## david1332 (Mar 24, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> the spruce would need to be 70 for that cottonwood to be 100 let alone 116 lol something does not add up. I'm thinking 75 to 85 footer. Like this one was


I'm thinking that too. The top of those 3 phase are usually about 20-25' in the air atlEast around me. So 85 max probably.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2017)

david1332 said:


> I'm thinking that too. The top of those 3 phase are usually about 20-25' in the air atlEast around me. So 85 max probably.


Lol thats not a 3 phase its open wire secondaries and cable with likely a street light wire on top. 3 phase will be 3 conductors on top usually side by side with neutral bottom but sometimes stacked and usually 12.5kv but sometimes much higher all variable by local utility needs and can be estimated by counting the bells on the insulators and generally the size of conductors. Then you have 69 line "known by old school line clearance" they can be 69 kv and up that feed the substation from a larger substation or powerplant and those run ungrounded with a smaller static wire on top. I have trimmed everything from 880 to 500kv, I'm not a lineman but I have a very good understanding of it and most importantly for tree trimming know which wire is normally hot. 500 kv is those huge towers that basically supply it all and are coming out of nuclear power plants or hydro electric when trimming those its done by notch and drop. Basically if the tree can fall within fifteen feet of any of its conductors the tree will be removed. They will jump 15 feet out and getcha like a giant spark plug  It was fun felling huge trees all day working on those lines here is a 500 kv switch don't worry about which wire is hot on these just stay away if untrained


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## david1332 (Mar 24, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol thats not a 3 phase its open wire secondaries and cable with likely a street light wire on top. 3 phase will be 3 conductors on top usually side by side with neutral bottom but sometimes stacked and usually 12.5kv but sometimes much higher all variable by local utility needs and can be estimated by counting the bells on the insulators and generally the size of conductors. Then you have 69 line "known by old school line clearance" they can be 69 kv and up that feed the substation from a larger substation or powerplant and those run ungrounded with a smaller static wire on top. I have trimmed everything from 880 to 500kv, I'm not a lineman but I have a very good understanding of it and most importantly for tree trimming know which wire is normally hot. 500 kv is those huge towers that basically supply it all and are coming out of nuclear power plants or hydro electric when trimming those its done by notch and drop. Basically if the tree can fall within fifteen feet of any of its conductors the tree will be removed. They will jump 15 feet out and getcha like a giant spark plug  It was fun felling huge trees all day working on those lines here is a 500 kv switch don't worry about which wire is hot on these just stay away if untrained



I should really learn a better understanding of lines and power. I know the difference between power and phone and to just plain avoid any wire lol. I know it might be asking a lot but could you PM me some info on lines and such and how to identify them? That would be great


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## no tree to big (Mar 24, 2017)

So you get any new prices? I can't sleep at night I need to know! Lol 

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## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2017)

david1332 said:


> I should really learn a better understanding of lines and power. I know the difference between power and phone and to just plain avoid any wire lol. I know it might be asking a lot but could you PM me some info on lines and such and how to identify them? That would be great


 Yes avoid all wires; as at anytime they can become energized, think a drunk hits a pole two miles away a phaze contacts cable tv and presto your now hot! Of course even cable has energy without becoming high voltage and it only takes one tenth of 1 amp in 12vdc to kill. Even guy wires can become energized, as far as identifying goes think top wires as highest voltage in general but not always even a neutral should never be considered safe though. Service wires seen coming from the transformer have protection coating but that should not be considered insulation as it is not. It merely protects the conductors from the bare wire ground wrapped by the protected conductor wires. Service wires kill many lineman and tree climbers alike mainly because many believe the coating is insulation! There is also the fact that dead wires can be energized through induction if they run parallel to energized conductors! Think spark plug misfiring which is caused by induction. Its a dangerous world out there man stay safe!!


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## david1332 (Mar 25, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> Yes avoid all wires; as at anytime they can become energized, think a drunk hits a pole two miles away a phaze contacts cable tv and presto your now hot! Of course even cable has energy without becoming high voltage and it only takes one tenth of 1 amp in 12vdc to kill. Even guy wires can become energized, as far as identifying goes think top wires as highest voltage in general but not always even a neutral should never be considered safe though. Service wires seen coming from the transformer have protection coating but that should not be considered insulation as it is not. It merely protects the conductors from the bare wire ground wrapped by the protected conductor wires. Service wires kill many lineman and tree climbers alike mainly because many believe the coating is insulation! There is also the fact that dead wires can be energized through induction if they run parallel to energized conductors! Think spark plug misfiring which is caused by induction. Its a dangerous world out there man stay safe!!


Thanks!


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## Missel (Mar 26, 2017)

no tree to big said:


> So you get any new prices? I can't sleep at night I need to know! Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Haha. Just got a second quote for $7k with stump grinding. He also used some laser measuring tool and said they were 105'-110' tall.


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## david1332 (Mar 26, 2017)

Missel said:


> Haha. Just got a second quote for $7k with stump grinding. He also used some laser measuring tool and said they were 105'-110' tall.


And wood removed?


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## Missel (Mar 26, 2017)

david1332 said:


> And wood removed?


Ya


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## david1332 (Mar 26, 2017)

That seems crazy low. But good for you if that's from a legit company with insurance and proper gear and such.

Why we're the others?


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## Missel (Mar 26, 2017)

david1332 said:


> That seems crazy low. But good for you if that's from a legit company with insurance and proper gear and such.
> 
> Why we're the others?



Yes legit company insured and bonded. They have a climber, 65' bucket truck, grapple truck, etc. Have a few companies coming this week hopefully.


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## no tree to big (Mar 26, 2017)

Missel said:


> Yes legit company insured and bonded. They have a climber, 65' bucket truck, grapple truck, etc. Have a few companies coming this week hopefully.


I bet if you get down you could get that job done In a couple days 3k a day plus a day to grind @1k that's not outa line. Then there are the companies that bid work at 1500 to 2000 a day so they have 3 to 4 days on it. All depends on your business model 

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## ropensaddle (Mar 26, 2017)

Missel said:


> Haha. Just got a second quote for $7k with stump grinding. He also used some laser measuring tool and said they were 105'-110' tall.


Gratz now tell him his range finder is broke  Seriously rangefinder will say 105 feet line of sight but arc is what it needs to be accurate!! Is that spruce 70 foot ? just sayin.


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## ShermanC (Apr 18, 2017)

Missel said:


> I have several large cottonwood trees in my backyard that I'd like to remove completely and a few I'd like to take some height off. They are just shi**y trees that drop large branches once in awhile and I get nervous when the kids are playing out back. They are approximately 100' tall and 3+' in diameter. I got a quote for $15k which seems quite high to me. I've cut down a large maple before from an 85' bucket truck and am considering that option but would rather hire this one out but I just cannot afford $15k! Looking from some feedback on the feasibility of doing this myself or recommendations on a company/individual in the area (Rochester, NY) who would do the work at a more reasonable price. Thanks!
> View attachment 565388


I listened to a one-hour webinar last week on plant hire (European term for renting equipment) by Brian Parker. If you rent equipment that wrequires operating skill save money by renting it with an operator instead of trying it yourself. And by all means read the fine print two times. Know your liabilities you are obliged for when using someone else's equipment. If you goof up you could be real sorry and very broke.


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## david1332 (May 3, 2017)

What ever happened to this guy? Lol


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## rarefish383 (May 3, 2017)

I hope he has the wood split and stacked by now, and no, I don't want any of it, Joe.


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