# The SOB sat back on me!



## inavacuum (Feb 4, 2011)

So me and a buddy decided to fell a nice sized White oak for firewood next winter. All was going well until I was almost done with my relief cut and a big gust of wind came howling in and sat the tree back right on my bar. 

We don't have a tractor or winch to use and decided wedges would probably be the best way to go. I ordered a few 8inch wedges from Baileys and I'm hoping this will work. I can buy another bar if I have to, but I'd really like to avoid that. 

I ordered 3 wedges, what's the best procedure to tip the tree over?


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## Macclay (Feb 5, 2011)

Is the bar still in the tree?:msp_blink:


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## dingeryote (Feb 5, 2011)

Wedges, and plenty of them will get the tree stood up and over if you left enough hinge.
Be wary of the hinge blowing out if you didn't.

You're lucky the thing didn't "Set back" on you or your bud.
Count your blessings.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## buzz sawyer (Feb 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> So me and a buddy decided to fell a nice sized White oak for firewood next winter. All was going well until I was almost done with my relief cut and a big gust of wind came howling in and sat the tree back right on my bar.
> 
> We don't have a tractor or winch to use and decided wedges would probably be the best way to go. I ordered a few 8inch wedges from Baileys and I'm hoping this will work. I can buy another bar if I have to, but I'd really like to avoid that.
> 
> I ordered 3 wedges, what's the best procedure to tip the tree over?


 
How deep is the bar into the tree? What is the dia. of the tree? Can you post a photo? Unless there's room behind the bar to start driving a wedge, you're going to have to pull or lift the tree off the bar or make a back cut up higher. Maybe a big prybar in the cut to get the tree off the bar? PLEASE use extreme caution. Sounds like it may be almost ready to come down.


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## ShermanC (Feb 5, 2011)

*Been there, done that. Extreme caution and alertness is the order of the day!*

Can you get a toss line up in the tree? Clear escape paths around that tree base because you might have to run. If you can get a line up there, carefully hook and pull a heavy rope back through a crotch around the trunk. Set that line to one or two Maasdam rope puller(s) or come alongs secured on a tree base far out in the direction of fall. I have a six foot (22 lbs.) pry bar (bought long ago at a Wal-Mart Super Center) using it to start the opening into which I'd fit the wedges. As you pound wedges keep an eye on the cut thickness because the tree might start to fall the wrong direction. Pound the wedges with even pressure or make it favor the desired direction of fall. In the future, put wedges in behind the back cut to keep this from happening. Good luck,
Sherm


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## derwoodii (Feb 5, 2011)

O dear, take care others ideas here may help, let us know how you go.


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## NCTREE (Feb 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> So me and a buddy decided to fell a nice sized White oak for firewood next winter. All was going well until I was almost done with my relief cut and a big gust of wind came howling in and sat the tree back right on my bar.
> 
> We don't have a tractor or winch to use and decided wedges would probably be the best way to go. I ordered a few 8inch wedges from Baileys and I'm hoping this will work. I can buy another bar if I have to, but I'd really like to avoid that.
> 
> I ordered 3 wedges, what's the best procedure to tip the tree over?


 
Sounds like you need to take some lessons from this guy

Farming Magazine - The Game of Logging

If you don't know how to fell a tree safely then you shouldn't be doing it. It's a good way to get wacked or do property damage.

You guys are dime a dozen!


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## justme23005 (Feb 5, 2011)

Yeah... Take lessons from him... not from these people 

YouTube - ‪Crane smashes/crushed Santa Rosa house in tree battle ( McCarthys House )‬&rlm;


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## oscar4883 (Feb 5, 2011)

Get a rope in it, get some wedges, etc. Best bet is to call a pro with skills and an insurance policy at this point. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will only cost about what a cord of wood goes for.


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## climberjones (Feb 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> So me and a buddy decided to fell a nice sized White oak for firewood next winter. All was going well until I was almost done with my relief cut and a big gust of wind came howling in and sat the tree back right on my bar.
> 
> We don't have a tractor or winch to use and decided wedges would probably be the best way to go. I ordered a few 8inch wedges from Baileys and I'm hoping this will work. I can buy another bar if I have to, but I'd really like to avoid that.
> 
> I ordered 3 wedges, what's the best procedure to tip the tree over?


 Bullrope 3 quarters the way up if solid tree ! pulley anchored to something damn strong and a heavy truck that is not going to spin. if the hinge is iffy than i wouldnt walk up to the saw again until the tree is on the ground!!!!!let us know how it goes!


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## Boogieman142 (Feb 5, 2011)

if you have another saw or even another B&C for that saw I'd atleast take the powerhead off the stuck one, and either put another B&C on that one or use a different saw and cut above that cut and this time cut a step in it to allow for the use of a wedge in case it pinches the bar. But I'd be sure that my powerhead doesn't get left out there until the wedges come in.


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## ducaticorse (Feb 5, 2011)

oscar4883 said:


> Get a rope in it, get some wedges, etc. Best bet is to call a pro with skills and an insurance policy at this point. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will only cost about what a cord of wood goes for.


 
All an insurance policy will get you in the middle of the woods is a bill! Unless in this case you're talking about LIFE INSURANCE.


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## oscar4883 (Feb 5, 2011)

ducaticorse said:


> All an insurance policy will get you in the middle of the woods is a bill! Unless in this case you're talking about LIFE INSURANCE.


 
The original post mentioned nothing about the woods. Life Insurance would seem like a good idea for sure! lol


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2011)

That is why I put a tag line in everyone that I drop unless it is an absolute slam dunk. A tag line placed 3/4 up in the tree will negate these types of problems. 

Personally, I would wait for the wedges at this point. I would not want to be standing in the drop zone fiddling with a throw line in the event another wind gust comes through and decides to blow it over. If it's in an area that is accessible to people or there is even the slightest chance someone is going to come through there the area and tree need to be marked with caution tape.

Very dicey situation you have on your hands there.


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## ducaticorse (Feb 5, 2011)

oscar4883 said:


> The original post mentioned nothing about the woods. Life Insurance would seem like a good idea for sure! lol


 
I wrongly assumed that no one with a brain would try and fell a tree during amateur hour near a structure.


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## beastmaster (Feb 5, 2011)

Can't tell much without a photo, but it seems to me if it was just the wind that set it back, it would lift off the bar some when there was no wind.
Its really hard to judge the lean of some trees, especially a big oak with lots of big limbs. Even under perfect conditions they can twist or do strange things.
If you misjudged the weight distribution real bad(easy to do) or didn't leave a good hinge, wedges might not be the solution.
In all seriousness that tree could kill you. Swallow your pride and call a professional. Just my two cents. Be safe. Beastmaster


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## forestryworks (Feb 5, 2011)

Buy a dozen wedges. Not 3.


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## brownd (Feb 5, 2011)

Wow! I believe we are in the arborist 101, correct? Listen to the good advise and skip over the rest! Can be a huge learning curve. Hopefully a painless one.


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## ducaticorse (Feb 5, 2011)

brownd said:


> Wow! I believe we are in the arborist 101, correct? Sorry for the ashholes that are here. Listen to the good advise and skip over the rest! Can be a huge learning curve. Hopefully a painless one.


 
Dropping a large oak tree with no professional supervision is no place to be realizing your "learning curve". You ask questions here first, than apply the info in a practical manner. NOT the other way around. Don't coddle the thread starter because he could have been KILLED or KILLED someone else due to his negligence, and inexperience. This isn't a game.


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## oscar4883 (Feb 5, 2011)

brownd said:


> Wow! I believe we are in the arborist 101, correct? Sorry for the ashholes that are here. Listen to the good advise and skip over the rest! Can be a huge learning curve. Hopefully a painless one.



Some of us, I know I do, may think this in the wrong section. I suspect this is for the Homeowner section, however I could be wrong. This would be a simple thing for any "pro" so to speak. Unless it is some monster tree.


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## NCTREE (Feb 5, 2011)

:deadhorse:



brownd said:


> Wow! I believe we are in the arborist 101, correct? Sorry for the ashholes that are here. Listen to the good advise and skip over the rest! Can be a huge learning curve. Hopefully a painless one.


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## NCTREE (Feb 5, 2011)

I your not a PRO then your just a HO

http://www.arboristsite.com/arboricultural-injuries-fatalities/163530.htm


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## Jeffsaw (Feb 5, 2011)

Lots of good advice. I like the plan (if it is safe to do) of detaching the saw from the bar to get it out of harms way. I almost lost a stuck saw once when the tree decided to fall over the wrong way. I was cutting pulpwood at the time. Then,getting a good rope up high in the tree (if it is safe to do) and attaching it to an anchored come-along far from the drop zone and winching in down should work okay. Good rope isn't cheap though and neither is a good come-along.


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## grgbandkng (Feb 5, 2011)

If I understand the OP correctly, he was almost through his "relief" (felling) cut when the tree sat down? Sounds like he read the limb weight wrong to me. So he has a tree standing with the face and felling cuts in it? All that's holding the tree is the hinge? If I was him I'd call in a pro immediately if this tree is in any kind of populated area.


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## ShermanC (Feb 5, 2011)

*Here is some sage advice that could save your life and it's worth more than you think*

I've been felling trees since '92 and kept count within a range of 100, at 4,000. Nine of those 4,000 were gigantic diameter trees and one had to be removed with a crane. 
One year ago I thought the time had come to buy and read TREE LAW CASES by Lew Bloch. I wished I'd read it sooner for those 141 pages really opened my eyes and amazed me at what can be overlooked and what can go wrong. 

Now that we have YouTube we can see amazing mistakes online. The listing in this thread of the crane that went through the house in California is a prime example. Get the book for about $51.00 plus shipping and soak it in. You'll be glad you did and you'll look at every situation, every friend and every tree in a different way.


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## newsawtooth (Feb 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> So me and a buddy decided to fell a nice sized White oak for firewood next winter. All was going well until I was almost done with my relief cut and a big gust of wind came howling in and sat the tree back right on my bar.
> 
> We don't have a tractor or winch to use and decided wedges would probably be the best way to go. I ordered a few 8inch wedges from Baileys and I'm hoping this will work. I can buy another bar if I have to, but I'd really like to avoid that.
> 
> I ordered 3 wedges, what's the best procedure to tip the tree over?



Man, if I had a nickel for every time I've had a pinched bar waiting on mail order wedges...super frustrating.


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## Muffler Bearing (Feb 5, 2011)

I would make the wedges needed and complete the job. I would NEVER leave a tree like you described.


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## inavacuum (Feb 5, 2011)

Wow!! You guys are hostile!

Let's Clarify.

This thread should definitely be in the Homeowner's section. I am obviously by no means an "arborist".

The Area:

The Tree is in the middle of the woods on my own private property. It is in no way endangering any structures or people. The area is only accessible by quad or horseback, so using a tractor or truck is out of the question. 

The Tree:

Its about 26" in diameter, and yes all that is supporting it now is the hinge. Its very probable I misjudged the limb weight. 

The Plan:

Like I said, this tree isn't near anything, it is about as remote as you could imagine. If I can't tip it over with the wedges, I'll try getting a line up in it and hammering in some wedges. Until then, I'll hope some more wind comes through and when I head back out there, it'll already have fallen. 


I apologize for posting in the wrong section. 

Is there anything I left out?


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## ducaticorse (Feb 5, 2011)

newsawtooth said:


> Man, if I had a nickel for every time I've had a pinched bar waiting on mail order wedges...super frustrating.


 
LOL


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## ducaticorse (Feb 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> Wow!! You guys are hostile!
> 
> Let's Clarify.
> 
> ...


 
No biggie. Some of us take the biz quite seriously, and frown on ill prepared/unskilled performances. It's just bad news ya know? Don't take it personally, (I don't think you have). Too many clowns take "creative" constructive criticism by the more knowledgeable individuals on this board as attacks, or put downs, and then learn nothing from the experience. Keep your ears open, and your skin thick, and this can be a great place to learn. AND MARK THAT DAMN TREE OFF SO NO ONE GETS HURT IN THE MEAN TIME.


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## r&r (Feb 5, 2011)

You could be bada$$ and throw another tree into that one taking them both down at the same time. This could be really bad if it got hung up though. A video would be necessary if you attempt this.


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## inavacuum (Feb 5, 2011)

r&r said:


> You could be bada$$ and throw another tree into that one taking them both down at the same time. This could be really bad if it got hung up though. A video would be necessary if you attempt this.


 

hahaha I wish I could pull that off.


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2011)

I figured it was prolly on private property. Still not a bad idea to mark it even if it is on your own property. On the outside chance that someone trespassed and got hurt by it you would be liable. I would just never leave a hazard that I created unmarked.

Personally, I didn't take any offense to you posting your question here. It is a professional forum but I would rather see someone ask a question that try to figure it out on their own and maybe get hurt in the process.

If you do a lot of felling for firewood do yourself a favor and invest in a throwline, throwbag and tag line so you can get a rope in them. It will save you a lot of heartache in the end.


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## r&r (Feb 5, 2011)

you could also use splitting wedges that you may have already depending on where your bar is on a 26in tree you could go straight in the back and not hit your bar/chain or go in parallel to your bar if need be, might be enough to move it over. (not recommended if you think you might have to cut more) 
Also if its your first time using plastic wedges watch out for them flying back out at you while driving them sometimes they are hard to start especially in your situation with the tree already sitting back. A helmet with a screen would be best.


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## inavacuum (Feb 5, 2011)

Well, we tried using a maul to wedge in but I think it tapered too fast, it got in to a certain point and would just bounce out with the next strike, that's why I decided to order the wedges. 

As much as I'd like to invest in a forestry helmet, I'm not sure if that's something I"ll be able to do right now. How much does one usually go for?


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## Muffler Bearing (Feb 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> How much does one usually go for?



Bailey's - First Aid & Safety > Head Protection


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## grgbandkng (Feb 6, 2011)

tree md said:


> I figured it was prolly on private property. Still not a bad idea to mark it even if it is on your own property. On the outside chance that someone trespassed and got hurt by it you would be liable. I would just never leave a hazard that I created unmarked.
> 
> Personally, I didn't take any offense to you posting your question here. It is a professional forum but I would rather see someone ask a question that try to figure it out on their own and maybe get hurt in the process.
> 
> If you do a lot of felling for firewood do yourself a favor and invest in a throwline, throwbag and tag line so you can get a rope in them. It will save you a lot of heartache in the end.


 
Couldn't agree more......


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## dingeryote (Feb 6, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> Well, we tried using a maul to wedge in but I think it tapered too fast, it got in to a certain point and would just bounce out with the next strike, that's why I decided to order the wedges.
> 
> As much as I'd like to invest in a forestry helmet, I'm not sure if that's something I"ll be able to do right now. How much does one usually go for?


 
OMG!!

Leave the damn thing alone, flag it off to keep idiot tresspassers away from it and warn everyone in the family to stay the hell away untill it goes on it's own.

That Bar will be there two weeks from now, and clean up easy after the wind does the work.
It ain't worth getting dead over, and it's obvious you aren't wedge savvy yet.

No offense..seriously. Leave it alone untill you have boned up a bit on wedging backleaners and know what a solid hinge looks like, and can read a tree.

As far as Helmets go, any good tin or plastic safety helmet will work better than nothing and most folks know somebody that has an old one rolling around in the truck. Helmets are cheaper than coffins and E-room visits, and even the lousy helmets are better than a chineese made Ball cap.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## climberjones (Feb 7, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> Well, we tried using a maul to wedge in but I think it tapered too fast, it got in to a certain point and would just bounce out with the next strike, that's why I decided to order the wedges.
> 
> As much as I'd like to invest in a forestry helmet, I'm not sure if that's something I"ll be able to do right now. How much does one usually go for?


 
Hey dont know how much hinge you left so not going to reccomend the wedge !if youdont have a strong tree work specific 100ft or so rope that you can get up it safetly with a running bowline than hazard tape off the area and walk away brother it will save you some major pain ! good luck and let us know! oh and by the way ask any go##am question you want on here!!


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## fearofpavement (Mar 3, 2011)

So is the tree on the ground yet? Keep us posted.


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## zogger (Mar 5, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> Wow!! You guys are hostile!
> 
> Let's Clarify.
> 
> ...



--I'd get a line up in it high, then snatch blocks and a comealong or whatever so you can stand way off to the side, and pull it back the way you wanted it to fall in the first place. It'll either fall then, or give you enough room with a better lean that THEN you can place wedges and finish the cut. 

I wouldn't go pound wedges in the thing now without a line on it, I'd write off the cost of the bar and chain first. 

I don't have any plastic wedges (yet, I am going to get some), but I have used hard wooden wedges for years. I always use them on larger trees, even if it looks like a good cut. Just good safety insurance.

Oh, and wind..ya sucks sometimes. I just don't cut with big winds as a general rule. Not cutting on contract or anything, so I can afford to wait to calm days or just gentle breezes. And I still won't try to drop against the wind, ever, unless it is such an extreme leaner that it is easy.


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## pbtree (Mar 9, 2011)

inavacuum said:


> Wow!! You guys are hostile!
> 
> Let's Clarify.
> 
> ...


 
You're OK - Some like to lecture more than others. 

If you feel the situation warrants it, have a pro come out and put it down for you. Safety is paramount. 

Otherwise, learn from the situation and next time it will go better for you! I have pinched a few bars in my day, and it is always frustrating. 

Good luck!


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 12, 2011)

Mark the tree and post warnings. Set a line, have buddys, with phones. BE CAREFUL and pull it over. If ya need more power, look into a fiddle block set up. Dont need to buy the set, but even if ya can set up 2 pulleys in the system, will help greatly with pulling power.

Or

Buy a couple rolls of caution tape, tape out a perimeter and let nature do its thing.


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## rarefish383 (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm lucky, I grew up in the industry. Every tree I throw I put a tag line in. Too late to start over. 

Now listen carefully and try to picture this. I saw some one trying to drive wedges in a large Oak exactly as you described. It may have had more back lean than yours, I don't know. He got the wedges in and they stressed the hinge to the point it broke. Broke is hardly the word. It sounded and looked like it exploded. The but shot forward, in the direction of the notch, in a millisecond, and the tree fell 100% backwards. Often when you drop a big tree and every thing goes right it looks like it's falling in slow motion. This was the opposite, it happened so fast that every one was standing around stunned. If he had of been driving the wedge from behind the tree he would have been squashed. I cannot describe how fast that tree came down. I was 15 or 16 when that happened and I'm 55 now and it is still vivid in my mind. Please be carefull, Joe.


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## wolfcoln (Mar 12, 2011)

You have gotten plenty of advice here, the best one is next time make sure you and your buddy know what you are doing.

Hope it all goes well and no one gets hurt.


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## rarefish383 (Mar 12, 2011)

OOPS, I see that was a month ago, hopefully it's on the ground by now, Joe.


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