# 09 good time to start a business?



## newbym (Jan 23, 2009)

Alright, my minds made up, and I'm going to start doing my own thing. Now all I have to do is decide when... I'm thinking that if I can pull off paying off my debt (~$14000) in time that I should be able to start my own business at the end of this year. Am I just being stupid thinking about giving up my consistently paying job as lead climber? Anyways, let me know what your thoughts are on this matter...


----------



## ASD (Jan 23, 2009)

I think it would not be a good time to start a new tree co. as their is not that much work out their right now due to the econ being in a down hill slide. It would be real hard for a new co to get good projects with the rest of us (older co's) slashing prices and fighting over the scraps that our out their.


----------



## John464 (Jan 23, 2009)

Probably the worst year in the last decade to start a business.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Jan 23, 2009)

:agree2: :agree2:


John464 said:


> Probably the worst year in the last decade to start a business.



tom trees


----------



## mckeetree (Jan 23, 2009)

newbym said:


> Alright, my minds made up, and I'm going to start doing my own thing. Now all I have to do is decide when... I'm thinking that if I can pull off paying off my debt (~$14000) in time that I should be able to start my own business at the end of this year. Am I just being stupid thinking about giving up my consistently paying job as lead climber? Anyways, let me know what your thoughts are on this matter...



Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Mmmmmmmmm.


----------



## squad143 (Jan 23, 2009)

I have to agree that now is probably not the best time. 

Spend the next while paying off your debts and then SAVING some money (The more you can save, the better). 

Keep your eyes out for some deals that these tough economic times may bring though.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jan 23, 2009)

Why start one when many established ones will be for sale soon?
Want to start a business get into banking that way when you go
belly up no fear the gov just hands you money!


----------



## gink595 (Jan 23, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Why start one when many established ones will be for sale soon?
> Want to start a business get into banking that way when you go
> belly up no fear the gov just hands you money!



Hey your alt/0176 for degree sign doesn't work:greenchainsaw:


----------



## ropensaddle (Jan 23, 2009)

gink595 said:


> Hey your alt/0176 for degree sign doesn't work:greenchainsaw:



°°°°°°°


----------



## gink595 (Jan 23, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> °°°°°°°



WTF, it doesn't work on mine! In auto cad it's %%D:greenchainsaw:


----------



## pdqdl (Jan 23, 2009)

If you are 14 grand in debt now, it will only get worse if you go into business under-capitalized (not enough money).

Learn to budget your money, balancing income against expenses. That is almost the single most important skill for a business owner to develop. It doesn't look to me like you have managed to do that yet, unless you are including the note on your house as part of your debt.

Balancing your budget doesn't get any easier just because you put your name on the side of the truck.


----------



## pdqdl (Jan 23, 2009)

Rope! I am deeply in debt for the ° symbols! I have been trying to learn how to do that for years.

BTW, both methods work on my keyboard. ° (0176) or ° (248)


----------



## newbym (Jan 23, 2009)

See, the way I've been thinking is that if I can get one of the SBA micro-loans and try to get going right at the end of 09. That way I'm already operating on the assumption that I'm not going to make any money the first 6 mos and I'm in a great position to take over any and all work I can from the fly-by-nighters that are getting squeezed out by this recession.


----------



## newbym (Jan 23, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> If you are 14 grand in debt now, it will only get worse if you go into business under-capitalized (not enough money).
> 
> Learn to budget your money, balancing income against expenses. That is almost the single most important skill for a business owner to develop. It doesn't look to me like you have managed to do that yet, unless you are including the note on your house as part of your debt.
> 
> Balancing your budget doesn't get any easier just because you put your name on the side of the truck.



All but ~$500 of that debt is from my damn ex-wife. Easier for me to settle the debts than to try to get the money out of her :censored:


----------



## pdqdl (Jan 23, 2009)

The fly-by-nighter's will not be the biggest part of the market to go under. They are working out of their driveway, using a pickup truck and a couple of chainsaws.

The well managed, established businesses will be the last to go, they already have their market share, and they can just cut back on expenses and weather the storm.

The biggest losers in a down-turned economy will be the under-funded startup businesses that have not figured out where to capture sales, how to close sales without under bidding, etc.


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Jan 23, 2009)

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: 

I'd sell you mine w/ 5,600 established customers. Many of my commercial accounts customers,...... are not....... willing to sign or renew contracts for services in 2009. They sighted; a tightened credit market, declining consumer spending, larger than expected losses in revenue or concern over the current recession worsening. Many older customers have sighted tremendous losses in retirement income, thru failed investments. 

opcorn: opcorn: 


I WOULD NOT START NEW IN 2009.....SMALL BUSINESS CREDIT ??????????


----------



## ropensaddle (Jan 23, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> The fly-by-nighter's will not be the biggest part of the market to go under. They are working out of their driveway, using a pickup truck and a couple of chainsaws.
> 
> The well managed, established businesses will be the last to go, they already have their market share, and they can just cut back on expenses and weather the storm.
> 
> The biggest losers in a down-turned economy will be the under-funded startup businesses that have not figured out where to capture sales, how to close sales without under bidding, etc.



Pretty good analogy underfunded stinks I feel I may make it if things
don't get worse. I have applied and may take a job and do both again 
the way my business started. I had a full time and weekend made more
than my full time job but gross is different than net. The economy has
made it hard for me but I have made it through worse so if the bottom
doesn't drop out I might make it. I have had to dip into my retirement
funds to keep afloat though.


----------



## squad143 (Jan 24, 2009)

newbym said:


> See, the way I've been thinking is that if I can get one of the SBA micro-loans and try to get going right at the end of 09. That way I'm already operating on the assumption that I'm not going to make any money the first 6 mos and I'm in a great position to take over any and all work I can from the fly-by-nighters that are getting squeezed out by this recession.



The recession will only bring out more of the "fly-by-nighters". Anybody who gets laid off and owns a chainsaw will think they are a tree company. Pick-up truck or not.


° -works with 0176 for me, but 248 only jumps me to the second post on this page. Thanks Ropensaddle.


----------



## TimberJack_7 (Jan 27, 2009)

It may be a little tougher to start with current economic conditions where they are. Look at it this way though. If you can start up in a lousy economy, survive and be profitable, imagine how well you will be poised to grow when the economy turns around. The current economic conditions are going to weed out the weak, and of course the strong will survive.

Current economic conditions have not deterred me from taking my tree business from side work to fully legitimate tree company. Over the last 9 years I have worked and saved as much money as I could doing it on the side. I have always been professional, even when I was hauling the brush away with my Ramcharger and a landscape trailer. These days I have an old but nice dump truck(paid for) and an old but nice looking chipper(also paid for). 

To make a long story short, yes you can start your business now, but you have to be smart about it. I already had all my assets in place when I went legit and started reporting income and paying insurance and workmans comp etc. I also only do my tree work on the weekends and evenings and work my day job at the bank as a loan officer. My ultimate goal is to have the business productive enough that I can send a two man crew out everyday and let them make money for me while I am working at the bank. 

Yes I am a trained climber with a degree in finance. Some people think that tree work and banking have nothing in common, but remember, whether you are in banking or tree work, you are always in the branches.........


----------



## ArborSmithNw (Jan 28, 2009)

Ok, so I did not take the time to read through every reply, so excuse me if something like this has been brought up already.

My take, although a bit more reserved than it may read, start anytime you feel you are up for a very heavy challenge. The economy of course is very real, but we are in an industry that is comprised of wants & needs from clients. Currently the "wants" are tapering because of the economy, but there are still the needs.

Rule 1, keep your overhead as low as you POSSIBLY can! Used equipment, no fancy new trucks etc., bare bones minimum to get the work done safely. No client of mine has ever known that my chipper was a 1984 with 10million hours on it, they just plain don't know the difference. They just saw how great the trees looked and how clean the yard was.

Rule 2, use a small marketing dollar wisely. The best marketing dollar you can possibly spend is on fuel. (see rule 3 for details)

Rule 3, don't sit back in your home office (no fancy shop) with your size 10's kicked up on the desk waiting for that next lead to come in. Get out there and find the work (this is where fuel as marketing comes in) Pound doors!!

There is so much work out there that NEEDS to be done. And a ton of that work needs to be done no matter what the economy says. Commercial properties & condo's, apartments etc. Sure, you are going to have to come in extremely low in your bids to get them, but it's income & getting your name out there. 

Pound the hell out of doors, work your butt off for minimum pay, make those contacts! Those contacts will not forget who you are if you do honest work at good rates, and when the economy starts to make a curve for the better, you will be seeing so much refferal business you'll get dizzy. Meanwhile the guys who were not willing to work really hard for shorter $$ will be out of business, and you could be a front runner in your market so when the people start spending again, you'll get the lions share! 

I know of 3 companies that have folded in my local market in the past 2 months. I sold $34K in the past 6 days, $8K came from our local yellow pages.

Of course this theory only works with honesty & integrity.

If you look back to the great depression, think of where the wealth was built back up from. Sure, some old money, but for the most part it was built back up with a ton of hard work & ingenuity. 

You can do it man.

My disclaimer: I did not share this viewpoint to offend anybody or to spark debate, its just how I feel.


----------



## lxt (Jan 29, 2009)

1st off whats your level of exp., cause if you are another "I dont wanna work for a company & start at the bottom type" then you will surely fail!!

2nd, I do the opposite of everyone else, when guys are growing their biz...Im down sizing, when their downsizing Im growing!! works very well for me!! I have managed to save alot of $$ due to the fact I downsized when everyone else was growing!

So now all the equipment that they cant afford which is 1-2yrs old is being sold at wonderful prices & I dont need a loan, so now Ill be more productive than I was, thus If need be to slash prices I can cause the job will be completed faster...less labor = less expense = more work......I hope!!!


LXT..........


----------



## jrizman (Jan 29, 2009)

I think it comes down to whats been mentioned already, working your ass off for not much right now.

I think everyone got too greedy, thats why the whole economy is crap. Bankers, lenders, finance, dealers, everyone, including tree companys. I see all these people picking up brand new rigs every few years cause they "need" it. Granted shop time costs, but there are plenty of used rigs in mint condition that could be used to generate revenue. Look at all the stupid bells and whistles on a new pickup truck, i dont wanna spend money on a heated cup holder damnit!

Anyway, I work on the side, labor all week and harder labor all weekend. Its not fun, but I keep telling myself that I will look back someday and know it was worth it even though I can barely walk at the end of a few weeks of 8+ hr days. (im sitting here now cause i worked all day and then plowed snow all night, so I needed some sleep). 

I do think however that pulling through with quality dependable work at this junction will pay off later. I am setting up so that I can be ready for the recovery, as history shows us, itll happen. Also, you need to be innovative, doing things the same good ole boy way is what got us here anyway. Its time to advance your thinking and put yourself out there (not too far). Ive got several ideas that Im hoping I can implement in the next few years (my younger years things were great, I was impatient, but it was 'okay' then, not anymore).

Sorry for the long post, but thats how i feel!


----------



## newbym (Jan 29, 2009)

lxt said:


> 1st off whats your level of exp., cause if you are another "I dont wanna work for a company & start at the bottom type" then you will surely fail!
> 
> LXT..........



No, I started at the bottom, bought my own gear with the $2000 that my dear grandpa left me, worked my way up through ISA CTW to Cert. Arb. and have been the lead climber/foreman of the past two companies I've worked for. I just have a different management style than my latest boss, and there just wasn't consistent enough work at the one before that. I'm looking at moving into a different town (I like my boss enough that I don't feel like starting a war with him for work) which I have researched the demographics of for that past couple of months and which I feel is lacking in ISA representation (read: it looks as if there's nothing but hacks working there). I just figured that the more knowledge I can glean from this place before making the jump, the better.


----------



## outofmytree (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi Newbym. It seems as though you have your heart set on a new business so I won't try to convince you otherwise. 

Stay working untill you have cleared that existing debt. In the meantime, there is no reason why you cannot shop around for the equipment you need when people with too much debt are forced to the wall. Believe me, there will be plenty of businesses that go under. It may be callous, but the best time to buy gear, is when someone MUST sell it.

Along the way, can you subcontract work from your existing employer? Maybe some ugly chipping/amenity pruning that he doesnt want to do? I agree that relocating may be wise to avoid conflict but that doesnt mean you can't talk it out with him first. If my number 1 guy wanted to do his own thing I would think long and hard about having him run a second truck for me and take a slice of the action. 

Whichever way you go, best of luck.


----------



## masterarbor (Feb 11, 2009)

Stay at your job and do weekend work. Spend every dollar you earn from weekend work on new equipment. In the meantime study marketing and business on the web at night. In a year you will be better equipped for the challenge. My gut feeling is that we are really going to be fighting over every scrap this year.

Good Luck
Kevin


----------

