# Jack of all trades master of none Harness???



## wildsurviver (Aug 27, 2013)

:msp_confused:I am looking for a harness or saddle and could really use some help deciding on which one.
Background: 
Taken Game of Logging levels 1-3. Plan to take additional levels as time, money, experience allow.
Drop and cut “easy” trees for firewood. (just for me)
Do most if not all of my own maintenance, home, car, equipment, etc.
Working towards owning land and managing it for lumber, wildlife, pleasure.

What I want (think I want) is a harness or saddle that I can use to climb trees AND could use for roofing (my old dairy barn needs to be stripped and redone) OR other such jobs that a harness would be needed. I would also like one that I could use when hunting, ascend the tree and sit in it for 4-8 hours. I don’t do a lot of one thing so whatever I go with has to be usable for a lot. What I have kind of seen/found is that I might want to look at something that has a fall arrest top and a seat that can be added/removed from the main harness or saddle as needed.

I have done some research and know that some hazards are present if you have the wrong harness or saddle and sit in it for a long period of time. I do plan on doing more research and probably taking some kind of an entry level class to get some hands on experience with climbing.

What harness should I be looking at?
I live near Rochester NY suggestions on places to try one on or find in person help?
THANK YOU!


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 27, 2013)

No harness,,try a saddle.
Jeff


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## wildsurviver (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone else got a suggestion?


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## Guran (Aug 29, 2013)

In MHO, maybe this could be an option?
A Sequoia SRT saddle and then add a top harness? Will give you some flexibility in your set up.
View attachment 312184
View attachment 312185

Petzl Tree Climbing Harnesses
Göran


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## madmarksolomon (Sep 1, 2013)

Check out Wesspur.com and look them up on youtube they have a lot of good videos maybe what your looking for.


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## wildsurviver (Sep 3, 2013)

Guran said:


> In MHO, maybe this could be an option?
> A Sequoia SRT saddle and then add a top harness? Will give you some flexibility in your set up.
> View attachment 312184
> View attachment 312185
> ...



Goran, I like that harness and the fact that it is designed to have a top harness is great. I have a question though, on the Petzl website  it list the top harness for the Sequoia SRT "seat harness". Do they mean the Sequoia swing that has a seat instead of two separate leg straps? If so could this still be used with the none seat Sequoia SRT configuration? Thank you for the suggestions and help.


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## wildsurviver (Sep 3, 2013)

madmarksolomon said:


> Check out Wesspur.com and look them up on youtube they have a lot of good videos maybe what your looking for.



Thank you! I did that and ended up looking at several videos of a Couger saddle. The Seqouia SRT is what I was looking at on my own but was worried about being able to attach a top harness to help with fall arrest and the cost. 
Any other suggestions, tips, etc. when looking at or trying on a saddle?
Thank you!


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## madmarksolomon (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm not much of a tree hanger like the other guys on this site, just top trees on occasionally for yarders and what not, I just use a climbing harness but I'm not up there for very long.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 3, 2013)

madmarksolomon said:


> I'm not much of a tree hanger like the other guys on this site, just top trees on occasionally for yarders and what not, I just use a climbing harness but I'm not up there for very long.



Not to be a bully, but that means you can not help. 
Jeff :msp_tongue:


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## joezilla11 (Sep 3, 2013)

I never wore one but I don't think the sequoia is cushy enough to be sitting in for up to 8 hours like you said. maybe something with a bit more padding like an ergovation or cougar. also I never used a saddle with a seat either but its probably more comfortable to sit in vs one with leg straps which gives you more flexibility in your movement tho. if these saddles work for all the crazy movements guys do in trees I wouldn't worry about needing a fall arrest top for going up and down a roof unless your nailing upside down while a guy holds your ankle which ive seen before. I think the fall arrest comes more into play for bucket workers and the way they lean out of the buckets to work.


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## madmarksolomon (Sep 3, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Not to be a bully, but that means you can not help.
> Jeff :msp_tongue:



Point takin ill just stop try to help a guy out that's asking for a little advise
Edit:


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## RandyMac (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm not helping either. GOL? LMAO!!!


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## Guran (Sep 4, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> I never wore one but I don't think the sequoia is cushy enough to be sitting in for up to 8 hours like you said. maybe something with a bit more padding like an ergovation or cougar.



The Sequoia is good saddle but not that comfy to sit in for a long time. You legs will get numb.
I bought a Kolibri click a while ago with big leg paddings. A bit expensive maybe, but comfy.
Göran.


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## Grouchy old man (Sep 4, 2013)

> What I want (think I want) is a harness or saddle that I can use to climb trees AND could use for roofing (my old dairy barn needs to be stripped and redone) OR other such jobs that a harness would be needed.



I think you are going to regret using a saddle while working on a roof. You don't need anything to support you and it's going to be uncomfortable and get in the way. All you need for roof work is a good pair of roof shoes and a fall arrest harness in case you slip. So my advice is to select a saddle for tree work and a fall arrest harness system for the roof.


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## Guran (Sep 5, 2013)

:agree2:


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 5, 2013)

Not to mention, I don't think any saddle is going to be comfy to just sit in for 4-8 hrs. And then you're going to shoot from it? This whole 3 in 1 concept just isn't a good idea. There is a reason googling roofing/arborist/hunting saddle doesn't get any results. The only thing these activities have in common is they involve heights. Jeff


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## wildsurviver (Sep 5, 2013)

madmarksolomon said:


> I'm not much of a tree hanger like the other guys on this site, just top trees on occasionally for yarders and what not, I just use a climbing harness but I'm not up there for very long.



Yeah, I am helping a guy reroof his house that has a 10/12 (40 degree) pitch with a valley and he has a simple webbing style harness for climbing that has NO padding. From time to time he has to sit or kneel on his roof with only the harness for support and it cuts into him a lot. I couldn't see wearing the thing for anything other than safety because it is not comfortable to let carry your weight, not even for 10 minutes. The Barn I have to do is an old dairy barn so most of the roof can’t be walked on plus it has a large valley on the back because the barn is L shaped. I figure the harness is going to carry a good part of my weight a lot of the time even if I put up furring strips and stand of them.
Thanks for the input


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## wildsurviver (Sep 5, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> I think you are going to regret using a saddle while working on a roof. You don't need anything to support you and it's going to be uncomfortable and get in the way. All you need for roof work is a good pair of roof shoes and a fall arrest harness in case you slip. So my advice is to select a saddle for tree work and a fall arrest harness system for the roof.



I know one of my problems is going to be finding a saddle that will work for me at several tasks like roofing, siding, tree work, etc. Why do you think the saddle will not be comfortable when working on a steep 10/12 or gabel dairy barn style roof that you would be "perched" on?


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## wildsurviver (Sep 5, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'm not helping either. GOL? LMAO!!!



Are you asking what Game of Logging is? If so Worth Every Penny! I took the class with Bill Lindloff. See website below.

www.gameoflogging.com

Game of Logging (GOL) is training offered to professional loggers, foresters, college students, forest landowners, casual users, city-parks and utility workers, firemen, and anyone interested in learning any of the safety technique regarding the use of chainsaws by combineing demonstration with participation to teach safety, productivity, conservation and cutting techniques.


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## Umbellularia (Sep 5, 2013)

*Jill of all trades master of none*

I'm going to wade into this...

I have a Petzl Navaho Complet saddle. It has an integrated top harness with a fall arrest ring in the back. It is an older model primarily designed for tower climbing. It's actually not dissimilar from Petzl's current arborist offerings. The significant difference is the front attachment point - it's a center mounted fixed ring.

If you search old threads here, you'll find a few posts by people who were successfully using these pre-Sequoia model Petzl saddles for tree work. The main complaint was a comfort issue for the guys. I find the saddle OK - I'll run out of stamina before it becomes uncomfortable.

I justified buying this saddle because it could serve three purposes:
1) Gutter and roof cleaning (fall arrest)
2) Climbing Burning Man type art projects
3) "Mowing" my weeds*

* The weeds being 40 foot weed trees growing beneath 160+ foot redwoods.

If I was buying today, I might end up with a true arborist's saddle. Purposes 1 and 2 are infrequent enough that they don't require special purpose gear.

Addressing the OP's needs: You're not a roofer. If your saddle becomes uncomfortable, you can knock off for the day and resume some other day. As for hunting, I doubt you'll find anything you'd want to wear all day. If I loosen the straps on my Petzl, it is fine to stand around in it, but I wouldn't want to try doing any precision activities.


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## Grouchy old man (Sep 5, 2013)

wildsurviver said:


> I know one of my problems is going to be finding a saddle that will work for me at several tasks like roofing, siding, tree work, etc. Why do you think the saddle will not be comfortable when working on a steep 10/12 or gabel dairy barn style roof that you would be "perched" on?



I've never seen a roofer use anything other than fall arrest equipment and many don't even do that if they know OSHA isn't looking. If it's too steep to walk you use roof brackets and planks, scaffolding or a lift depending on the situation. 

If I ever saw a guy doing roof work with a saddle he would have to be from some jackleg handyman company that does tree, painting, roofing- anything to make a buck.


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## wildsurviver (Sep 6, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> I've never seen a roofer use anything other than fall arrest equipment and many don't even do that if they know OSHA isn't looking. If it's too steep to walk you use roof brackets and planks, scaffolding or a lift depending on the situation.
> 
> If I ever saw a guy doing roof work with a saddle he would have to be from some jackleg handyman company that does tree, painting, roofing- anything to make a buck.



Never heard the term "JackLeg" before so I looked it up on merriam-webster.
1a: characterized by unscrupulousness, dishonesty, or lack of professional standards <a jackleg lawyer> 
1b: lacking skill or training : amateur<a jackleg carpenter> 
2: designed as a temporary expedient : makeshift 
Interesting word i would say.

I am looking for a comfortable harness that will provide me safety as I do projects on my own because I am independent and like taking care of my own properties. I guess this may make me a "jackleg" as I am lacking in skill at this point. I have a good idea how "profesionals" do different things as I have watched, listened, researched, and actualy worked along side some of them. I am not a profesional when it comes to roofing, painting, or tree trimming because I don't do it for a living but I am cabable of getting things done and up to a safe stanadard. Part of my doing all of this is the fact that I like to learn and enjoy being active and acomplishing different things. I have worked from roof brackests and scafolding and not been tied in. I don't like it. I would rather be a little slower, look "funny" with a climbing saddle on, and safe when roofing at home then run the risk of killing my self if I fell. I also think that safety must be convient. Having a harness for every task is not convient, let alone expensive. My general assesment is that arborist spend alot of time in saddles and the ones offered to them have alot more padding then I see on any other ones offered to the other trades. That is why I am here asking for help and advise.
Thank you.


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## Gologit (Sep 6, 2013)

wildsurviver said:


> Are you asking what Game of Logging is? If so Worth Every Penny! I took the class with Bill Lindloff. See website below.
> 
> www.gameoflogging.com
> 
> Game of Logging (GOL) is training offered to professional loggers, foresters, college students, forest landowners, casual users, city-parks and utility workers, firemen, and anyone interested in learning any of the safety technique regarding the use of chainsaws by combineing demonstration with participation to teach safety, productivity, conservation and cutting techniques.



:msp_rolleyes:


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## Grouchy old man (Sep 6, 2013)

> I have a good idea how "profesionals" do different things as I have watched, listened, researched, and actualy worked along side some of them.



And I assume that's why you came here to ask advice. We are telling you that what you want to do just isn't done unless you are an amateur. So if you are looking for a saddle for roofing work there is no such thing and I could be wrong but I don't think anybody here has ever used one for that purpose. Nor would you find a professional roofer trying it and that's not because the method isn't available to them. So do what you want but if you want to imitate the pros this is the way it is.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2013)

Well. If y'all haven't run the poor guy off yet I'll try to help him out. . 

I will wear my saddle on a roof. For just the reasons he described. . The nail bags will sit a little lower than they do from my Diamond back tool belt because they need to be hung from caribiners that I use in place of caritools
You can get a Buckingham Viking and add Buckingham fall arrest suspenders. WesSpur has both instock. Unless your a fatty like me and I went with the Weaver Cougar. If you use 2 biners per side u can hang your nail and tool bags from them. You may choose to do some tinkering on the bags (NOT THE BELT OR SADDLE) . 
The Viking or Cougar works great "IMO " for tree work. But even with a batten seat I wouldn't want to sit in one for long hunting. 
I have spent plenty of time hanging in my DiamondBack UFO on roofs and used a hunting fall arrest harness for a while. It saved me from a couple falls off 8-12 -12 slope roofs that it more than paid for itself. But it wasn't really the best so the arb saddle is a very good idea. To keep the cost down on the other gear u will need I recommend Samson Arbor Plex rope and a Hitch Hiker or GriGri. But if you are doing a nice metal roof with say SkyLine or Snap Lock metal then I recommend a good eye to eye prussic to keep scratching the metal to a minimum


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2013)

For hunting you may want to check out the New Tribe saddles they seem to have very comfortable leg pad set ups. But I don't know if biners will fit in the same way to hold your nail bags.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2013)

Oh, and for those wondering. I'm also a Journey Man carpenter so I have a fair amount of knowledge and experience about what I speak.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> And I assume that's why you came here to ask advice. We are telling you that what you want to do just isn't done unless you are an amateur. So if you are looking
> for a saddle for roofing work there is no such thing and I could be wrong but I don't think anybody here has ever used one for that purpose. Nor would you find a professional roofer trying it and that's not because the method isn't available to them. So do what you want but if you want to imitate the pros this is the way it is.




GOM ; haven't you ever worked around Iron Workers. They use fall arrest+work positioning and carry their bags and beaver tails. All at the same time.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Not to be a bully, but that means you can not help.
> Jeff :msp_tongue:




Hey Jeff. I'm impressed, your getting nicer. .


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## monkeylove (Sep 6, 2013)

*Harness or saddle or both?*

All I can say is....I just went through the same dilemma and also came here for advice. I have a Sala fall aresst harness I use for work and tried to make it work for treeclimbing and hunting purposes. It did not work well and after a few painful weeks of trying I listened to the guys and bought a tree saddle. I went with the New Tribe Treefox and have used it a few times for 4 hour hangs and support while sitting in tree crothches. Best move I could have made, very comfortable and no pinching. I know nobody likes to spend money if they don't have to, but buying a Treefox will be well spent money.The pro arborist will probably agree that it does not have enough rings for their needs, but for hunting puposes it is perfect.Forme atleast. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 6, 2013)

Sometimes a thread wears out.
Do want you want.
Jeff


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## bustedup (Sep 6, 2013)

wildsurviver said:


> Are you asking what Game of Logging is? If so Worth Every Penny! I took the class with Bill Lindloff. See website below.
> 
> www.gameoflogging.com
> 
> Game of Logging (GOL) is training offered to professional loggers, foresters, college students, forest landowners, casual users, city-parks and utility workers, firemen, and anyone interested in learning any of the safety technique regarding the use of chainsaws by combineing demonstration with participation to teach safety, productivity, conservation and cutting techniques.



You are aware that who ya just had a pop at ...............is one off the most respected fallers around ??? ...............You are aware he has falled more trees than you had hot diners ............you are aware the the GOL log dance is a money making exercise.


Now ifn ya have a pop at Randy ya gonna kinda have a few fallers rather miffed at ya .........



I hope ya got ya ball cap from your course .........cause ifn ya go try to fall anything of any size using your highly taught techs then .........oh never mind you'll find out


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

to the OP, eh that GOL is crap whichever coast ya on. I rather see ya stump jump than that. try not to get squashed.


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## twochains (Sep 6, 2013)

wildsurviver said:


> Are you asking what Game of Logging is? If so Worth Every Penny! I took the class with Bill Lindloff. See website below.
> 
> www.gameoflogging.com
> 
> Game of Logging (GOL) is training offered to professional loggers, foresters, college students, forest landowners, casual users, city-parks and utility workers, firemen, and anyone interested in learning any of the safety technique regarding the use of chainsaws by combineing demonstration with participation to teach safety, productivity, conservation and cutting techniques.



LMAO! Are you asking RandyMac if he knows of GOL?? Hope yer wearing something fireproof :eek2: :hmm3grin2orange:

Hey RandyMac...were you aware that was what GOL meant?? Go figure huh? You got yer 404 wrapped in a newspaper handy?


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## RandyMac (Sep 7, 2013)

twochains said:


> LMAO! Are you asking RandyMac if he knows of GOL?? Hope yer wearing something fireproof :eek2: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Hey RandyMac...were you aware that was what GOL meant?? Go figure huh? You got yer 404 wrapped in a newspaper handy?





at all times my lad, at all times


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 7, 2013)

We've all suffered through an episode or two of Axe Men, too...


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## tramp bushler (Sep 7, 2013)

I think we have a snow ball effect here 
. If everyone could simmer down that would be great. 

Boy. These things site can get outa hand quik


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 7, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> I think we have a snow ball effect here
> . If everyone could simmer down that would be great.
> 
> Boy. These things site can get outa hand quik



Oh, come on, tramp, lighten up. The guy asks for a magic "harness" that will let him climb trees, roof 10/12's, and shoot deer from 20' up after hanging from it for 4-8 hrs. I'd like a jet pack, but they don't make those either. And then starts preaching GOL to Randy? Ya gotta admit it is kinda funny.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 7, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'm not helping either. GOL? LMAO!!!





wildsurviver said:


> Are you asking what Game of Logging is? If so Worth Every Penny! I took the class with Bill Lindloff. See website below.
> 
> www.gameoflogging.com
> 
> Game of Logging (GOL) is training offered to professional loggers, foresters, college students, forest landowners, casual users, city-parks and utility workers, firemen, and anyone interested in learning any of the safety technique regarding the use of chainsaws by combineing demonstration with participation to teach safety, productivity, conservation and cutting techniques.



I don't know who this "RandyMac" guy is. Sounds more like a trucker than a lumberjack to me. Whoever he is, if he wants to be a real lumberjack he needs to consider taking some GOL classes. He may think he knows more than most "college students" or "casual users", but that's only because he has never taken the course. Lumberjacking is not something that can be learned by years of on the job training with experienced lumberjacks, it requires some weekend classes to ever really become an expert. Same with that Gologit guy. Anybody can put some "I'm a logger thing" in their user name, but it takes serious coursework to be a real lumberjack. Those guys seem like :newbie:'s to me


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 7, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> I don't know who this "RandyMac" guy is. Sounds more like a trucker than a lumberjack to me. Whoever he is, if he wants to be a real lumberjack he needs to consider taking some GOL classes. He may think he knows more than most "college students" or "casual users", but that's only because he has never taken the course. Lumberjacking is not something that can be learned by years of on the job training with experienced lumberjacks, it requires some weekend classes to ever really become an expert. Same with that Gologit guy. Anybody can put some "I'm a logger thing" in their user name, but it takes serious coursework to be a real lumberjack. Those guys seem like :newbie:'s to me



You are a dope.
Jeff


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## Gologit (Sep 7, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are a dope.
> Jeff



Nah, he just has a weird sense of humor. Pretty good guy actually. Well, sometimes anyway. 

We're going to get him out here for one of our Left Coast working GTGs and RandyMac and I will take turns yelling at him. :help:


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## HuskStihl (Sep 7, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Nah, he just has a weird sense of humor. Pretty good guy actually. Well, sometimes anyway.
> 
> We're going to get him out here for one of our Left Coast working GTGs and RandyMac and I will take turns yelling at him. :help:



Thanks Bob, that Norwegian was hurting the feelings of my inner child (who happens to be a mean little ####er, for what it's worth)


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## northmanlogging (Sep 7, 2013)

I'll toss my hat in...

Hanging from any kind of harness or saddle for more than a few hours becomes nightmarish for me...

The arborist type arn't too bad but your still moving and working not just hanging there waiting for bambi to waltz through your cross hairs, could be me can't stand just sitting and waiting gotta be doing something,

for fall arrest I suppose they wouldn't be to bad the saddle type are really just a modified version of rappelling or rock climbing harnesses, wider padding bunch more hanging points for tools etc.

In summary get the best one you can afford, but I would want to be hanging static in one for more than a few minutes. Could be the bees knees for roofing steep angles they are meant to be worked in.

And the gol thing... I guess its good for newbs that haven't spent most of their childhood and all of their adult life around saws... however if you have, then the weaknesses of GOL are obvious. Not to mention its some puffed up crud they want you to pay for. Yeah Yeah I know that they say even seasoned loggers learn something from the classes, whatever, seasoned loggers learn something everyday... otherwise they end up being dead loggers...


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## tramp bushler (Sep 7, 2013)

Well. Everyone's gotta start somewhere. So he took some classes. . 

Most of the people on this forum aren't like us older timber beasts who either had to get it figured out or die trying just to keep a roof overhead. Some of us all it was was a bunk house. If we r typing currently its because we lived thru something that would wear out most Navy Seals
But, we lived in a place and time that the opportunities were available for us to do that. Most don't have those opportunities. 

I tried to answer his?? Straight up from my experience. 
Pushing the limits is how we grow not atrophy. 
I guess part of my response comes from working with a halfdozen young guys this summer that were green as the grass. I myself can't understand how a male child in North America let alone Alaska could get to 20 years old and not know how to run a chainsaw or tell a spruce tree from a pine. Or a willow from a cottonwood. But most of them had managed to pull it off. Computer games I guess. 
I jus think some of u guys could have been more forthcoming with info to answer his??? Maybe I'm the only one that has been on a steep roof all day wishing I could find a way to stay on it when that first slip happened. Or been raised by a father that had come off a roof when he was in his 20 s and had to hobble around for the rest of his life.


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## RandyMac (Sep 7, 2013)




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## jefflovstrom (Sep 7, 2013)

RandyMac said:


>



That is a 'screen saver',,,,:msp_wink:
Jeff


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## wildsurviver (Sep 8, 2013)

Tramp bushler
Northmanlogging
Monkeylove
Guran
Madmarksolomon
Joezilla11
Umbellularia

Thank you to the above and anyone I might have missed as I found your posts to be the most helpful. I am going to take your suggestions, do some more research, and find a store or some locals that will let me try on their saddles. I will let you all know what I decide on and how it works out. If anyone has a suggestion on what saddle/harness or other equipment, I should try or might want to consider getting please feel free to toss it up. Also I am interested in a beginners class on climbing as I learn best by doing and being walked through things.
Thanks!

View attachment 313606


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## RandomWoodsman (Nov 14, 2013)

hey dont know if you found what your looking for but im from the Rochester area and am there usually a couple times a month I have a modded buckingham buckcat that i use as a personal saddle my work saddle is an edge your welcome to try both if you want could also help with the climbing thing too, for what you want to do there really isnt a jack of all trades saddle however one with a bosuns seat would probably be a good bet for ya.


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