# not fair



## oldirty (Oct 20, 2009)

its not fair to the competition when this big fella and i get together.

almost a joke how easy tree work can be given the right tools.

go up set 2 slings and make the cut. 10k lbs goes to the grapple chipper and i get ready for the butt pick. 

lol. really it shouldnt be funny but how you gonna compete with this?


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## Tree Pig (Oct 20, 2009)

oldirty said:


> its not fair to the competition when this big fella and i get together.
> 
> almost a joke how easy tree work can be given the right tools.
> 
> ...









lol thats not a top thats a tree.


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## John464 (Oct 20, 2009)

gotta love it. you working for Mayer now? I thought you were with another outfit who has their own cranes


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## zopi (Oct 20, 2009)

That's cheating...yer s'posed to do it the hard way, and put it up on yew-toob so these guys can pick it apart and tell you how you could have made it harder...:greenchainsaw:


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## tree md (Oct 20, 2009)

Sweet! 

Man, I kind of miss the days of riding around with the crane all day. These days I can only rent one when I really need it. And no it's not easy to compete on those trees.


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## BlackenedTimber (Oct 20, 2009)

HAHAHA... wait... you made one cut in the tree and one cut on the ground for the spar...? That's classic.

Probly had to pay the minimum on the crane, but worth it for 10 minutes of awesomeness. ( I know "awesomeness" is not a word, but I can't think of any other way to describe it...)

Great Post.


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## tree md (Oct 20, 2009)

BT, they are using the company crane. Hence no minimum and hard for tree guys without one to compete... 

We used to take some trees in one shot when I climbed for some of the larger services. Ride ball to choker point, choke tree with choker, zip down, make one cut and winch tree to chipper. Doesn't get any better than that.


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

John464 said:


> gotta love it. you working for Mayer now? I thought you were with another outfit who has their own cranes



the company i work for has a great working relationship with them. they get together for a lot of projects. (remember me in central park?) anyway we needed to use the 60ton for a couple days.

1pick'n trees from the driveway in the way backyard just isnt fair. lol.


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

zopi said:


> That's cheating...yer s'posed to do it the hard way, and put it up on yew-toob so these guys can pick it apart and tell you how you could have made it harder...:greenchainsaw:



one of these days i'll have the helmet cam and a ground cam just for that very reason!

just gotta get the boss to let me showcase our talents. he not really cool with the idea of me sharing all our secrets though.


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> HAHAHA... wait... you made one cut in the tree and one cut on the ground for the spar...? That's classic.
> 
> Probly had to pay the minimum on the crane, but worth it for 10 minutes of awesomeness. ( I know "awesomeness" is not a word, but I can't think of any other way to describe it...)
> 
> Great Post.



that crane didnt even know the load was on it. thing is a beast.

i think in this case awesomeness will work. good for like 6k 100ft away....


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## Treetom (Oct 21, 2009)

Nice equipment, OD.


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## jomoco (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> one of these days i'll have the helmet cam and a ground cam just for that very reason!
> 
> just gotta get the boss to let me showcase our talents. he not really cool with the idea of me sharing all our secrets though.



Secrets OD? Surely you jest! Your so called secrets are over 20 years old!

Like back when whole tree chippers first hit the market!

Big cranes have been picking whole trees since before both of us were born!

Must be the way you hold your jaw I guess! 

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> he not really cool with the idea of me sharing all our secrets though.



The only secret is the climbers gut ability to rig a piece that is not too big for the LZ and crew and not so small as to make the job abysmally slow.

I was on a storm job where we basically logged out a large yard, the HO wanted no trees anywhere near the house. We had everything staged oh-so nice for later removal and the climber has to rig an 8500# top that the crane OE (70ton grove) could not maneuver any way but down in front. I had 50ton of tops lined up buts-out and the last pick screwed up the whole load plan. 

Cranes are good tool only when there are good brians using them..


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 21, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Cranes are good tool only when there are good *brians* using them..



Dude, his name is Justin. Lol. Nice work OD!


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## treemandan (Oct 21, 2009)

umm, umm, umm. :yourock:


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## Rftreeman (Oct 21, 2009)

I wonder what the expense cost was on that job....

BTW, nice work OD.....


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## rmihalek (Oct 21, 2009)

I think BostonBull said those cranes are 1800 for the day, and the "day" starts when the crane leaves the garage. Jim can correct me if I'm wrong.


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## tree md (Oct 21, 2009)

Most I have ever paid for a crane was $2600 but we used it for 12 hours including 2 hours travel time and 4 hours overtime a piece for the site manager (was picking trees over house) and operator. Was using a 64 ton crane with 160 foot of boom. 10 hours in spikes that day... We had a total of 14 hours in the job. The job was for 10 K so I can deal with just about any hardship for $700 an hour. And don't think I was ripping anybody off. I picked three humongous trees over a house that day. The next closest bid was for 15 K.


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## Adkpk (Oct 21, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Dude, his name is Justin. Lol. Nice work OD!





That tree pick is ridiculous. 

What do you do for a cut? Face cut it then back cut it and then tip it a little till it snaps off with you right below it.  I would be fumbling the memory for a prayer. 

That tree looks pretty nice up there with the sky in the background, why did it need to come down?


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

jomoco said:


> Secrets OD? Surely you jest! Your so called secrets are over 20 years old!
> 
> Like back when whole tree chippers first hit the market!
> 
> ...





oh i got tricks homeboy. this dude been doing some extra curricular activities regarding his technique.

this crew is down right nasty right now. and because of that i get to do some things that are big time in my grand scheme of things, tree wise. hell i'll add lifetime too jo. whens the last time you went to central park to lend a hand after a storm ? lol

anyway if i sound like an ignorant ass hole its because i love doing what we do. i get excited talking about it and i like to talk ####. sorry bud. one day maybe i'll be a cranky prick , much like yourself, but for now i'm gonna enjoy it.


i'm going to enjoy hearing a woodsman's growl as it eats a 100ft of pine that i just slung that just got picked over the house. running the big saw that i just threw a razor's edge on in some big phat gnarly oak butt. 

i'll let you know when it sucks. believe me. 



jps we might have some big equipment but i'll tell you what we put it anywhere. always got the room, its crazy some of our setups. lol

treemandan much like yourself brother. 

costs of the operation you ask? talk to the next guy up about that stuff, i'm here for the job at hand. 

hey mihalek. boston bull isnt going to post here about anything anytime soon i dont think. 

stay safe boys.


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## tree md (Oct 21, 2009)

LOL, you go boy!

Feels great don't it???


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> That tree pick is ridiculous.
> 
> What do you do for a cut? Face cut it then back cut it and then tip it a little till it snaps off with you right below it.  I would be fumbling the memory for a prayer.
> 
> That tree looks pretty nice up there with the sky in the background, why did it need to come down?



big phat shelf man. let the weight break itself and off to the chipper she go.

you think i was in the tree for that release? lol. no. came off like a dream though. just a nice "pop" from the wood breaking and then stayed right in the shelf.

why she come down you ask? apparently the home owner doesnt like white oak.


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

tree md said:


> LOL, you go boy!
> 
> Feels great don't it???



as odd as it sounds man. i am most free when i am working. 

unless you got me doing some straight bs work i am happy to be there.

if i could get the rest of my life similar to my work life it would be the balls.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> as odd as it sounds man. i am most free when i am working.
> 
> unless you got me doing some straight bs work i am happy to be there.
> 
> if i could get the rest of my life similar to my work life it would be the balls.



#### yeah. Nothing like watchin' the wood fly. Keeps me goin'. I'd be a miserable #### if I never found this line of work. Any of your friends or girls get sick of hearing about trees? If so, you can chat up my gal she loves hearing the stories, at least she acts like it, which is good 'cause I don't talk about much else.


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## tree md (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> as odd as it sounds man. i am most free when i am working.
> 
> unless you got me doing some straight bs work i am happy to be there.
> 
> if i could get the rest of my life similar to my work life it would be the balls.



Don't sound odd to me at all.

I slammed two cotton woods today in three hours and was unloaded and headed to the house in 4. That is with stumps ground.

I'm still rushing!

18 years and I still love it!


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## epicklein22 (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> oh i got tricks homeboy. this dude been doing some extra curricular activities regarding his technique.
> 
> this crew is down right nasty right now. and because of that i get to do some things that are big time in my grand scheme of things, tree wise. hell i'll add lifetime too jo. whens the last time you went to central park to lend a hand after a storm ? lol
> 
> ...



Well at least you admit it and understand that some will not like your way of talking ####. I'm personally neutral on the subject. I'm the kind of guy that let's the work do the talking,but if I'm talking, it gonna be about my crew as a whole. 

Good to see you have an awesome crew with nice equipment. I have experienced it before and it sure does make the work a lot more fun and satisfying. When things go right and smooth, it just feels so right.


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## tree md (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> big phat shelf man. let the weight break itself and off to the chipper she go.
> 
> you think i was in the tree for that release? lol. no. came off like a dream though. just a nice "pop" from the wood breaking and then stayed right in the shelf.
> 
> why she come down you ask? apparently the home owner doesnt like white oak.



Yours is not to ask why, yours is just to do or die...


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## Adkpk (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> you think i was in the tree for that release? lol.



Oh, good. 



oldirty said:


> why she come down you ask? apparently the home owner doesnt like white oak.



Oh shoot. I do. I would love that tree in my backyard. How much more work would it take to dig it a little and haul over to the Catskills?:biggrinbounce2:


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## zopi (Oct 21, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> Oh, good.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shoot. I do. I would love that tree in my backyard. How much more work would it take to dig it a little and haul over to the Catskills?:biggrinbounce2:



My mom ran a tree nursery when i was young...I dont' want to think about how much rooting powder that would take...whatsit cost a 55 gal drum?:chainsawguy:


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## jomoco (Oct 21, 2009)

oldirty said:


> big phat shelf man. let the weight break itself and off to the chipper she go.
> 
> you think i was in the tree for that release? lol. no. came off like a dream though. just a nice "pop" from the wood breaking and then stayed right in the shelf.
> 
> why she come down you ask? apparently the home owner doesnt like white oak.



Something to keep on your check list when making critical cuts like that OD is how much fuel is in your saw at the time. Running out of gas in the middle of a big pick like that can be hazardous to your well being.

May your saws always be razor sharp and cut straight as an arrow homey.

jomoco


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## oldirty (Oct 21, 2009)

jomoco said:


> May your saws always be razor sharp and cut straight as an arrow homey.
> 
> jomoco



you as well sir. you as well.


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey, nice pick OD. Looks to be a money cut from here, lol.


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## tree md (Oct 21, 2009)

jomoco said:


> Something to keep on your check list when making critical cuts like that OD is how much fuel is in your saw at the time. Running out of gas in the middle of a big pick like that can be hazardous to your well being.
> 
> May your saws always be razor sharp and cut straight as an arrow homey.
> 
> jomoco



I've gotten in the habit of filling my saw before felling a tree as well. Not a good time to be running out of gas... :yoyo:


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## Nailsbeats (Oct 21, 2009)

tree md said:


> I've gotten in the habit of filling my saw before felling a tree as well. Not a good time to be running out of gas... :yoyo:



This is where the new see through tanks come in handy.


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## Koa Man (Oct 22, 2009)

Nice job and awesome crane. I was hired by a construction company on another island to cut down a mango tree. They told me they had a 66 ft. manlift and a 38 ton crane with 120 ft. of stick at my disposal. I told them they would need some guys on the ground to cut up the branches and load it in their dump trucks. The pictures below show the sizes that were picked off and the manpower they gave me. They had a backhoe with a female operator loading the two dump trucks. The green waste dump was only 10 minutes away. This job went so fast I felt guilty accepting the $700 I got for cutting the tree.

I never even used my saddle and climbing line and had my ice chest in the manlift. Wish every job I did was like this one.


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## treeslayer (Oct 22, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> Nice job and awesome crane. I was hired by a construction company on another island to cut down a mango tree. They told me they had a 66 ft. manlift and a 38 ton crane with 120 ft. of stick at my disposal. I told them they would need some guys on the ground to cut up the branches and load it in their dump trucks. The pictures below show the sizes that were picked off and the manpower they gave me. They had a backhoe with a female operator loading the two dump trucks. The green waste dump was only 10 minutes away. This job went so fast I felt guilty accepting the $700 I got for cutting the tree.
> 
> I never even used my saddle and climbing line and had my ice chest in the manlift. Wish every job I did was like this one.




well done brother.


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## tree MDS (Oct 23, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> Nice job and awesome crane. I was hired by a construction company on another island to cut down a mango tree. They told me they had a 66 ft. manlift and a 38 ton crane with 120 ft. of stick at my disposal. I told them they would need some guys on the ground to cut up the branches and load it in their dump trucks. The pictures below show the sizes that were picked off and the manpower they gave me. They had a backhoe with a female operator loading the two dump trucks. The green waste dump was only 10 minutes away. This job went so fast I felt guilty accepting the $700 I got for cutting the tree.
> 
> I never even used my saddle and climbing line and had my ice chest in the manlift. Wish every job I did was like this one.



Nice job! That was a big friggin mango tree!

Reminds me of the time down south when we were reducing a big one that was loaded with huge mangos, we had to use the cushions from the HO's lawn furniture to try and save the guys tile roof...only worked a little. lol.

BTW: sick dog as usual oldirty!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 23, 2009)

Don't you just love those 2 man work platforms, you can take so much gear up with you! 2-3 saws, hang slings and blocks off the bars, 2 bags of "might need" stuff.


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## tree md (Oct 23, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Don't you just love those 2 man work platforms, you can take so much gear up with you! 2-3 saws, hang slings and blocks off the bars, 2 bags of "might need" stuff.



We built our own platform that we secure to a forked lift. Works awesome and room for anything. I do choke off to the lift itself with a 12' wirecore... Just in case.


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## ageniusforhire (Oct 25, 2009)

*cranes*

yea, cranes are nice. Did anyone see the saw for hire episode where they stood the crane op on 2 wheels with too heavy a top. I saw one of those big cranes fold in half in orlando after hurricane charlie.Your definitly right about the brains needing to be there with the crane. A buddy of mine got his jaw jacked a few years ago by a but end that came up at him as it bucked off. not balanced right.I also saw another climber almost get swatted off a pole as a 50 ft pine top rotated on him because his choker point was about 5 ft lower than it should have been. I would still rather climb,though,without the crane, unless im using it to hang over a dead tree and work.That big crane is nice, but i hate thinking of loosing it if business is too slow to pay the note on a $200,000 piece of equipment.unless, of course, you paid cash.then you still have the insurance,cdl driver/operator and a massive amount of liability if somthing goes wrong. Personally that much cost and stress takes the fun out of it for me.


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## oldirty (Oct 25, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Hey, nice pick OD. Looks to be a money cut from here, lol.



it was nails. it was. i wanna say 8 picks for 5k on the job. lol.

3 pines in the back yard and that oak in the pics and a baby oak next to it came out as well.


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## treeslayer (Oct 26, 2009)

oldirty said:


> it was nails. it was. i wanna say 8 picks for 5k on the job. lol.
> 
> 3 pines in the back yard and that oak in the pics and a baby oak next to it came out as well.




Gotta get $5000 when ya roll a new crane, big chipper and all them toys to a job.


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## tree MDS (Oct 26, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> Gotta get $5000 when ya roll a new crane, big chipper and all them toys to a job.



You have to respect anyone that can keep that gig running, thats for sure.

To actually be in the position to say you need all that stuff to keep up with the workload...wow!

Feeding oldirty woodchips gotta be a full time job.

I dont know if I'd ever want to be that big personally. Maybe if I had a salesman and a secretary and I could just work on the crew. I suppose when its time for all that stuff it just feels right though. my equipment list has grown in the past years though, so I guess its all relative. Who knows what (if I'm still alive) I'll be up to in another 20 years.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 26, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> You have to respect anyone that can keep that gig running, thats for sure.
> 
> To actually be in the position to say you need all that stuff to keep up with the workload...wow!
> 
> ...



I'd never want to be that big, I couldn't imagine the paperwork that owner must do. I get frustrated and overwhelmed trying to keep my little operation's I's dotted and T's crossed from time to time. Makes me wish I had taken a few years to get out the area and work for the big boys before I started settin' roots. I don't care who you are, that #### looks like FUN. But like you said, MDS, who knows where I'll be in 20.


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## tree MDS (Oct 26, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I'd never want to be that big, I couldn't imagine the paperwork that owner must do. I get frustrated and overwhelmed trying to keep my little operation's I's dotted and T's crossed from time to time. Makes me wish I had taken a few years to get out the area and work for the big boys before I started settin' roots. I don't care who you are, that #### looks like FUN. But like you said, MDS, who knows where I'll be in 20.



+ 1 there blakes.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 26, 2009)

oldirty said:


> its not fair to the competition when this big fella and i get together.
> 
> almost a joke how easy tree work can be given the right tools.
> 
> ...



Well, when only a quarter of the cost for that job goes to the livings that the workers are trying to make with trees, it's not hard for anyone else to say they will do the job for half the price. Then call it competition. 

No huge loans to pay, and workers earn a living even yet. The machines never make nearly as much of a demand for a cut of the pay when there aren't giant cranes and elite, industrial chippers on the "machine roster" for the company.

Just my 2 cents down.


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## oldirty (Oct 26, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i wanna say 8 picks for 5k on the job. lol.



guesstimate. dont know what they got for it but i am usually close with the guess, so take that with a grain of salt.



tree MDS said:


> You have to respect anyone that can keep that gig running, thats for sure.
> 
> To actually be in the position to say you need all that stuff to keep up with the workload...wow!
> 
> ...



all i know is that i love working for this guy. a working mans man if you will. dead honest, fair, and willing. cant ask for much more from a boss than that. you dont have to guess to see where you stand, you'll know. and on top of that some of the gigs we land are just plain cool. its great. i found a home. 

and yes i do love working that OT baby.



Blakesmaster said:


> I'd never want to be that big, I couldn't imagine the paperwork that owner must do. I get frustrated and overwhelmed trying to keep my little operation's I's dotted and T's crossed from time to time. Makes me wish I had taken a few years to get out the area and work for the big boys before I started settin' roots. I don't care who you are, that #### looks like FUN. But like you said, MDS, who knows where I'll be in 20.



i thought about owning my own gig or getting started on the side but its the whole other side of the game that scares me away. the paper side. that side is rough on a brother. keeping that ship afloat as you bleed money everyday because something is always going to be needing some sort of attention. finding guys. guys that actually want to be there. phone calls. people. bidding. this list goes on.

as far as i am concerned i am getting the money i asked for and if i bang out a buzzie here and there (which is encouraged as long as you dont step on company time with your effort) to add to the cash flow then i dont really feel the need to take on that animal. i will, happily, take the work order in the morning thank you very much.

and blakes. i highly recommend traveling before you get too "old". its pretty crazy out there when you are not in your own element. i was gonna see if you wanted to come out here to work if we needed anyone too. oh well.


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## oldirty (Oct 26, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> Well, when only a quarter of the cost for that job goes to the livings that the workers are trying to make with trees, it's not hard for anyone else to say they will do the job for half the price. Then call it competition.
> 
> No huge loans to pay, and workers earn a living even yet. The machines never make nearly as much of a demand for a cut of the pay when there aren't giant cranes and elite, industrial chippers on the "machine roster" for the company.
> 
> Just my 2 cents down.



yeah boy. talk that ####. lol

i dont work for chump change bud. i'm pretty damn sure the guys are taken care of here at this company. no one leaves once they sign on, unless they get let go for lack of performance of course. 

and i can guarantee we not rolling up to your house at half price either.

and yes our smallest chipper is the vermeer 1800. with a winch of course. lol.

stay safe.


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## ASD (Oct 26, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> Well, when only a quarter of the cost for that job goes to the livings that the workers are trying to make with trees, it's not hard for anyone else to say they will do the job for half the price. Then call it competition.
> 
> No huge loans to pay, and workers earn a living even yet. The machines never make nearly as much of a demand for a cut of the pay when there aren't giant cranes and elite, industrial chippers on the "machine roster" for the company.
> 
> Just my 2 cents down.



:bang::bang: You go have fun doing tree work with an ax. I will keep doing it with toys and making real $$$$$$$$$$ for me and my people and we all get paid real good and do not go home with sore backs


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 27, 2009)

I know, actually that is the fkin' way to do this work. No really. 

I just know if I had those machines, I better be centralized in one of about five regions, the only major cities in the US. Where people are so rich they think a thousand dollar check is like a twenty dollar bill. 

They ask you how much. You say $20,000, and that you'll have 'er done in an hour or less or the bill gets bigger. I'm sure they come back with, "Do you want cash or check?" 

Throw the combination code brief case in the pile with the rest of those things, and away you go to the next job the very same day. Plain and easy just like champions :spam::spam::spam:

HTH did you guys get the credit line for machines like that after all? A lot of years in the biz is my guess.


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## outofmytree (Oct 27, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i thought about owning my own gig or getting started on the side but its the whole other side of the game that scares me away. the paper side. that side is rough on a brother. keeping that ship afloat as you bleed money everyday because something is always going to be needing some sort of attention. finding guys. guys that actually want to be there. phone calls. people. bidding. this list goes on.



Sigh. Your nightmare is my reality. Seriously the ownership thing is a lot of fun but the paperwork?!?! Argh. Gimme a tree that the other guy said couldnt be done and I'm in hog heaven. If only the books would do themselves....


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## ASD (Oct 27, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I know, actually that is the fkin' way to do this work. No really.
> 
> I just know if I had those machines, I better be centralized in one of about five regions, the only major cities in the US. Where people are so rich they think a thousand dollar check is like a twenty dollar bill.
> 
> ...



You are missing it!!!

A tree CO with all the toys dose not get more $$ for a job then the 5 guys working out of a small truck doing it by hand would. But the 5 guys will spend 5 days doing a $10k removal and with the toys it's a 1 day gig so the extra $40k the CO with the toys makes that week more then pays for the equipment and extra overhead it's got.


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## ageniusforhire (Oct 27, 2009)

*toys*

I know people with that size equipment can walk all over my price on a big job.My only saving grace is some people dont want that stuff on the grass, if it cant be reached from the road or driveway. And some customers would rather pay more to have it toted out around the house, than flown right over the roof.Those big toys are nice,though, if your customer base will support them.


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## ASD (Oct 27, 2009)

ageniusforhire said:


> I know people with that size equipment can walk all over my price on a big job.My only saving grace is some people dont want that stuff on the grass, if it cant be reached from the road or driveway. And some customers would rather pay more to have it toted out around the house, than flown right over the roof.Those big toys are nice,though, if your customer base will support them.



Don't get me wrong we do the little jobs to and you are right some jobs have to be done with good old man power to be cost effective


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 27, 2009)

ASD said:


> You are missing it!!!
> 
> A tree CO with all the toys dose not get more $$ for a job then the 5 guys working out of a small truck doing it by hand would. But the 5 guys will spend 5 days doing a $10k removal and with the toys it's a 1 day gig so the extra $40k the CO with the toys makes that week more then pays for the equipment and extra overhead it's got.



Of course that money pays for the equipment. I would make as low of payments on the equipment as possible, and sell the things for a good piece of the money back down the road some day. Or just give the payments to someone else.

Really though if you and your crew have the machines, and you have all of the high dollar customers that you need that just want things done in a snap, those machines are OK. That is just one thing more to sell is the speed of service, and that is something they will pay for only in certain areas. Somebody is going to find that niche, and make a living there just like the guys and a truck find that niche and make one there too.

I'll tell ya though, I bet the guys with the best machines are not ever as soar, never get bored with the same job because they go by so fast, and still get a good rate for pressing buttons and tieing ropes.


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## Toddppm (Oct 27, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I know, actually that is the fkin' way to do this work. No really.
> 
> I just know if I had those machines, I better be centralized in one of about five regions, the only major cities in the US. Where people are so rich they think a thousand dollar check is like a twenty dollar bill.




You're in SanDiego? Doesn't get much better than that for a rich area? What else do you want? 


Where's the troll smiley?:spam:


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 27, 2009)

Toddppm said:


> You're in SanDiego? Doesn't get much better than that for a rich area? What else do you want?
> 
> 
> Where's the troll smiley?:spam:



I suppose so, but you still have to be a tycoon to make substantial head way where ever you are. If you can't rip money with bills for machines like that,...talk about dropping the 450lb from the bench press on the gullet. Choke, choke. There may be steady business for machines like that here, but if you aren't good at realing in those payers, there's no use trying to put up machines like that here or Dubai (richest city in world).

Another thing is that the cost of it all is high here. I think there are secret taxes in the food and housing etc for warm air all year round and rainless/cloudless summers. Maybe:monkey:


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## TheLumberJack (Oct 27, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> Dubai (richest city in world).



...most treeless city in the world!


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 27, 2009)

TheLumberJack said:


> ...most treeless city in the world!



What? Oh yeah


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 27, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I suppose so, but you still have to be a tycoon to make substantial head way where ever you are. If you can't rip money with bills for machines like that,...talk about dropping the 450lb from the bench press on the gullet. Choke, choke. There may be steady business for machines like that here, but if you aren't good at realing in those payers, there's no use trying to put up machines like that here or Dubai (richest city in world).
> 
> Another thing is that the cost of it all is high here. I think there are secret taxes in the food and housing etc for warm air all year round and rainless/cloudless summers. Maybe:monkey:


Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??


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## TheLumberJack (Oct 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??



somethin about having to be a coon to make it in the tree biz...


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## ASD (Oct 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??



:agree2:


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## beowulf343 (Oct 27, 2009)

Don't let oldirty fool you. He may be bragging about his crane, and his crew, and his boss, but he's still jealous of me being able to stop at a tim horton's every morning. lol
And by the way oldirty, quit talking about how fun these jobs are because these other guys are going to want to do them too and it will be less jobs for guys like us!!!!

But seriously, you the man!! Nice job. Glad you found a good outfit to work for. It makes the job alot more enjoyable. And i don't know how it is for the old timers like jocomo, but after a decade of takedowns, four or five crane jobs a week, it still gives me a thrill. A gnarly crane job will get me as excited as a little boy. Keep up the good work.


What happened to the bull? I usually liked to hear what he had to say.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??



Don't tell me you can't read again, jonny. If you've got problems with words, why not just say so?

I don't know what you want to socialize about purses for, but I assume you have no specific purpose these days. Can't figure out how to operate your poulan or what?


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Oct 28, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I'd never want to be that big, I couldn't imagine the paperwork that owner must do. I get frustrated and overwhelmed trying to keep my little operation's I's dotted and T's crossed from time to time. Makes me wish I had taken a few years to get out the area and work for the big boys before I started settin' roots. I don't care who you are, that #### looks like FUN. But like you said, MDS, who knows where I'll be in 20.



You would be surprised as to how laid back the owner is, last I knew he is still making picks. Dirty tell me if I am wrong.


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## custom8726 (Oct 28, 2009)

Nice work as usual O.D. I think you have the right idea man. I miss working for a good company at times myself, I mean I always made decent money at my day job and then banged out a couple side gigs a month for play money. When my day was done it was done, no paper work, return calls,estimates, equipment repairs,etc,etc... Its becoming a distant memory at this point. As far as the crane taking away from the employees pay thats B.S. If the crane is scheduled accordingly and you have the right supporting equipment (Big Chipper, log truck, skidsteer,etc.. An obviously a good ground crew, you will make more money in a days time then some smaller company's will make in a week. Like the old saying goes "Time is money" Then the comments about being in the right demographic to be able to afford the luxury of a crane is also B.S. I utilize crane's as much as possible, it just takes a little more planning and creativity but in the end I feel 95% of the time the company as a whole makes more money, and everyones back & body is much happier. Dont get me wrong we still do plenty of free climbing aswell as bucket truck work when it becomes more cost effective to us, aswell/Or for the home owners.


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## BC WetCoast (Oct 29, 2009)

One of the big decisions that company managment must make is the split between labour and capital (ie equipment). Whether this is a tree crew versus a crane or robots versus assembly line workers in an auto plant. 

It is easy to become more productive by getting more equipment, but the challenge is matching your equipment to you market. While OD's crew can pound out a tree with crane and grapple chipper 5x faster than an all labour crew, there is a need for management to find 5x as many jobs to keep things moving. Just ask the automakers what happens when the public won't buy as many cars as you can produce. 

This makes an interesting case study on business strategy. OD's boss is in a high risk/high reward arena. The business risk is another well equipped company moving into the area and saturating the market, or the number of potential customers drying up. At least with an all labour crew, you are flexible in the type of jobs you can take on. Remember with high risk also comes a larger probability of failure.


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## tree md (Oct 29, 2009)

Just bid a crane job today. Fingers crossed that I get it. Gonna have to pick two over the house if I do. I love crane Jobs!!!


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 29, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> One of the big decisions that company managment must make is the split between labour and capital (ie equipment). Whether this is a tree crew versus a crane or robots versus assembly line workers in an auto plant.
> 
> It is easy to become more productive by getting more equipment, but the challenge is matching your equipment to you market. While OD's crew can pound out a tree with crane and grapple chipper 5x faster than an all labour crew, there is a need for management to find 5x as many jobs to keep things moving. Just ask the automakers what happens when the public won't buy as many cars as you can produce.
> 
> This makes an interesting case study on business strategy. OD's boss is in a high risk/high reward arena. The business risk is another well equipped company moving into the area and saturating the market, or the number of potential customers drying up. At least with an all labour crew, you are flexible in the type of jobs you can take on. Remember with high risk also comes a larger probability of failure.



That's probably the most intelligent thing I've read about the business side of it since I started subscribing here. 

Two more factors to put in there is first, how much buying power do you have? Do you just have enough to get the heavy equipment on payments, or do you have enough to get them on payments and then a lot more? Secondly, when things do take a turn or dry up, the heavy equipment can be sold off, even liquidated, or the payments given to someone else if need be. The major portion of he money towards the equipment comes back when the equipment is sold off. 

Now if the company doesn't have the buying power to get what ever it would ever want so to speak, then if things dry up, just lose the heavy equipment. Lose it, and count the money made over money spent on heavy equipment after folding or what not. 

If the company does have major buying power, and could float threw dry spells, expand or down size given the circumstances in the market all the while without folding the whole company, then it can shrink its prices to remain competitive during dry times. Just pay staff and for supply, while reaching back to what ever kind of buying power had to pay for those machines. What ever the remedy through the low times, it doesn't have to fold because although it is losing money during a few months or more (yikes) it does not have to fold and sell off the assets simply because it had more buying power than what it was worth to begin with. It is not sole dependant on the high market.

This company that is stronger financially can actually come out on top of the other companies that are its competitors which have the heavy gear too. While they are folding, the stong company stays a float soaking up the market and notarity that comes with being the only duck on the pond. Therefore, it gets even stronger while the market is dry, and more so when the market returns.

I wonder if there is even one subscriber to this forum that owns and has that kind of buying power that subscribes to this site. The company that JeffLovstrom is a ranking member of probably has that kind of financial clout. It covers a big portion of Southern California, does all kind of govt. jobs and lots of other biggies, so I assume it could reach way down in the wallet.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 29, 2009)

tree md said:


> Just bid a crane job today. Fingers crossed that I get it. Gonna have to pick two over the house if I do. I love crane Jobs!!!



What kind of number did you give the customer? Just interested.


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## tree md (Oct 29, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> What kind of number did you give the customer? Just interested.



I'd rather not say right now. I do have competitors who are members here. I will say that I priced it considerably less than I would have a year ago but I have a better crane connection now.

I will say that it is two large, mature trees in a very tight spot, up against a fence and over two houses. The furthest one is about 100' out. Both trees will have to be picked over the house. You can do the math.


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## oldirty (Oct 29, 2009)

tree md said:


> The furthest one is about 100' out. Both trees will have to be picked over the house.



now those are the money picks right there brother. your crane connect got a lotta stick? thats some reach right there.


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## oldirty (Oct 29, 2009)

more importantly

to all you guys who are out in the grind daily and running your own show my hard hat goes off to you. 

much treespect.


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## tree MDS (Oct 29, 2009)

oldirty said:


> more importantly
> 
> to all you guys who are out in the grind daily and running your own show my hard hat goes off to you.
> 
> much treespect.



much treespect brother, very much!

Must stick together; many do not understand the way of the treedog!


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## tree md (Oct 29, 2009)

oldirty said:


> now those are the money picks right there brother. your crane connect got a lotta stick? thats some reach right there.



He's got 135' with the jib. Says he can get 800# fully extended.


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## custom8726 (Oct 30, 2009)

tree md said:


> He's got 135' with the jib. Says he can get 800# fully extended.



Unless you are very comfortable with the crane operator I would not suggest using the jib for tree work. If you do decide or have to use the jib I would suggest not picking more then 40% of the max load limit....


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## custom8726 (Oct 30, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> One of the big decisions that company managment must make is the split between labour and capital (ie equipment). Whether this is a tree crew versus a crane or robots versus assembly line workers in an auto plant.
> 
> It is easy to become more productive by getting more equipment, but the challenge is matching your equipment to you market. While OD's crew can pound out a tree with crane and grapple chipper 5x faster than an all labour crew, there is a need for management to find 5x as many jobs to keep things moving. Just ask the automakers what happens when the public won't buy as many cars as you can produce.
> 
> This makes an interesting case study on business strategy. OD's boss is in a high risk/high reward arena. The business risk is another well equipped company moving into the area and saturating the market, or the number of potential customers drying up. At least with an all labour crew, you are flexible in the type of jobs you can take on. Remember with high risk also comes a larger probability of failure.



You make some valid points and I agree on most. I think one of the biggest deciding factors between success and failure is how well a company is managed. It does not matter if its a one man show or a fully outfitted company if you don't have a long term buisness plan you will never get ahead. Alot of the bigger company's are very diverse, if one aspect of the buisness is slow they make up for it in another area wether it be in tree work or an entirely different entity all together. More now then ever people are shopping for the best price, We still have a great clientele that keeps us busy but for all the new customers 8 out of 10 times it comes down to price. For example earlier this week we had a $2,400.00 tree job that we used a 28 ton crane on. Shortly after getting the contract on this job I did another estimate around the corner were the guy just wanted this big silver maple put on the ground and left. The tree was over the house on one side and a service line and guide wire on the other, he also had a very nice ornamental garden at the base. I told him $1,200.00 put on the ground and left, he could not sign the contract quick enough. That tree took us 1.5hrs with the crane and bucket truck, that same tree would have taken all day roping it out, it had a broken center and no good gin points or tie in points at all. I would not have done that tree for less then 2k without the equipment. So anyways long story short we did $3,600.00 in tree work in less then a day and after expenses cleared roughly 2,600.00 Those same two jobs would have taken a qualified crew without a bucket or crane a solid 2 to 2/12 days to complete. I know the figures above are not a staggering amount but the fact that we can complete more jobs in a giving week then 2/3rds of the local competition really adds up at the end of the year. So the point of my rambling is, having the proper equipment pays for itself in the end, The company yeilds higher revenue, the employees are happier, you get a ton of great advertising with a 100'+ of boom in the air, tax right offs, more production means you are in more places which equates to more buisness, etc,etc...


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## tree MDS (Oct 30, 2009)

custom8726 said:


> You make some valid points and I agree on most. I think one of the biggest deciding factors between success and failure is how well a company is managed. It does not matter if its a one man show or a fully outfitted company if you don't have a long term buisness plan you will never get ahead. Alot of the bigger company's are very diverse, if one aspect of the buisness is slow they make up for it in another area wether it be in tree work or an entirely different entity all together. More now then ever people are shopping for the best price, We still have a great clientele that keeps us busy but for all the new customers 8 out of 10 times it comes down to price. For example earlier this week we had a $2,400.00 tree job that we used a 28 ton crane on. Shortly after getting the contract on this job I did another estimate around the corner were the guy just wanted this big silver maple put on the ground and left. The tree was over the house on one side and a service line and guide wire on the other, he also had a very nice ornamental garden at the base. I told him $1,200.00 put on the ground and left, he could not sign the contract quick enough. That tree took us 1.5hrs with the crane and bucket truck, that same tree would have taken all day roping it out, it had a broken center and no good gin points or tie in points at all. I would not have done that tree for less then 2k without the equipment. So anyways long story short we did $3,600.00 in tree work in less then a day and after expenses cleared roughly 2,600.00 Those same two jobs would have taken a qualified crew without a bucket or crane a solid 2 to 2/12 days to complete. I know the figures above are not a staggering amount but the fact that we can complete more jobs in a giving week then 2/3rds of the local competition really adds up at the end of the year. So the point of my rambling is, having the proper equipment pays for itself in the end, The company yeilds higher revenue, the employees are happier, you get a ton of great advertising with a 100'+ of boom in the air, tax right offs, more production means you are in more places which equates to more buisness, etc,etc...



So pretty much what your saying is: sometimes you have to get downright nasty and utilize your accumulated skills/knowledge to whip up the competion any way you can?? Thats the way its getting around here lately anyways.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 30, 2009)

custom8726 said:


> You make some valid points and I agree on most. I think one of the biggest deciding factors between success and failure is how well a company is managed. It does not matter if its a one man show or a fully outfitted company if you don't have a long term buisness plan you will never get ahead. Alot of the bigger company's are very diverse, if one aspect of the buisness is slow they make up for it in another area wether it be in tree work or an entirely different entity all together. More now then ever people are shopping for the best price, We still have a great clientele that keeps us busy but for all the new customers 8 out of 10 times it comes down to price. For example earlier this week we had a $2,400.00 tree job that we used a 28 ton crane on. Shortly after getting the contract on this job I did another estimate around the corner were the guy just wanted this big silver maple put on the ground and left. The tree was over the house on one side and a service line and guide wire on the other, he also had a very nice ornamental garden at the base. I told him $1,200.00 put on the ground and left, he could not sign the contract quick enough. That tree took us 1.5hrs with the crane and bucket truck, that same tree would have taken all day roping it out, it had a broken center and no good gin points or tie in points at all. I would not have done that tree for less then 2k without the equipment. So anyways long story short we did $3,600.00 in tree work in less then a day and after expenses cleared roughly 2,600.00 Those same two jobs would have taken a qualified crew without a bucket or crane a solid 2 to 2/12 days to complete. I know the figures above are not a staggering amount but the fact that we can complete more jobs in a giving week then 2/3rds of the local competition really adds up at the end of the year. So the point of my rambling is, having the proper equipment pays for itself in the end, The company yeilds higher revenue, the employees are happier, you get a ton of great advertising with a 100'+ of boom in the air, tax right offs, more production means you are in more places which equates to more buisness, etc,etc...



That reads like it's all high power on your face of this business. 

What are the tax write offs for?


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## treeslayer (Oct 30, 2009)

tree md said:


> He's got 135' with the jib. Says he can get 800# fully extended.



I have little use for a jib, I feel they add time I should not pay for, (ever stood in a tree and watched the operator work the jib into place?) and only decrease load weight too much. I size the crane reach accordingly to work without it.


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## BlackenedTimber (Oct 30, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> That reads like it's all high power on your face of this business.
> 
> What are the tax write offs for?



Tax write-offs are for limiting your exposure when the fed. govt. comes around in april and asks for all your hard-earned cash. 

Practically everything business-related can be written off, including: ropes, saddles, saws, fuel, climbing and rigging gear, truck and equipment purchases (may need to depreciate) equipment rentals, certain labor, sub-contractors, uniforms (boots, chaps, PPE, shirts, jeans, polos, gloves, socks, coats, hats, etc.) shop and office expenses including supplies, parts, rent and utilities, maintenance and repair costs, advertising, professional consultation services, accreditations and certifications, CEUs, on and on and on.

Save your receipts and find a good accountant that understands what a "Schedule C" is.

The trick is, in a biz that deals with a sometimes considerable amount of cash, not to claim write-offs that exceed your yearly income (on paper, excluding the cash that you may not have claimed as income), cause then the IRS gets curious about how you spent all that money and still could afford to pay your bills and feed your family. Mess that one up, and then you got an Audit on your hands...


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## tree md (Oct 30, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> I have little use for a jib, I feel they add time I should not pay for, (ever stood in a tree and watched the operator work the jib into place?) and only decrease load weight too much. I size the crane reach accordingly to work without it.



I never have stood and watched but I have had to help put it on many times. I used to do all crane work with an old codger I worked a few years for. He taught me a lot about working a crane and tree work in general. God rest his soul.

I totally agree about using the right sized crane for the job. Was just giving specs on my friend's crane. I will use him anytime I can. The price is right. We will go scope the job before we do it if I get it and get our set up laid out. If I need something bigger that option is available.

Good advice from all tho!


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 30, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> Don't tell me you can't read again, jonny. If you've got problems with words, why not just say so?
> 
> I don't know what you want to socialize about purses for, but I assume you have no specific purpose these days. Can't figure out how to operate your poulan or what?


Listen JR my :censored: does more tree work than you , and I have forgotten more as well , so lets not go there Mr. use a chain dull it and throw it away , maybe I'll learn the bowline today. My question to you is this , what the :censored: are you out cutting trees for when the fries are burning and the burgers need flipping ....


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 30, 2009)

I say :censored: the competiton there not responsible for me making it or failing , your business should suit your ability and your local economy , if your survive you need to be hungry , and sell your potential and expertise and furthermore stick with what works for you..


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## rbtree (Oct 31, 2009)

tree md said:


> I'd rather not say right now. I do have competitors who are members here. I will say that I priced it considerably less than I would have a year ago but I have a better crane connection now.
> 
> I will say that it is two large, mature trees in a very tight spot, up against a fence and over two houses. The furthest one is about 100' out. Both trees will have to be picked over the house. You can do the math.



I'm bidding on two trees as well, for two different clients, next to each other. Huge ~65" dbh cottonwoods, 140-150 feet tall. Must be done on a weekend. 100 ton crane rates are $460 hr on Sunday, $400 on Sat....set-up and teardown is well over an hour each. Time and a half for flaggers on Sat, double on Sunday. Might be able to do some branch removal without crane so as to be able to only block one lane and work on a weekday. Then, maybe get by with 2 days of crane time. Best not to assume the job will go well, and bid low. I know some bids have already been submitted for the less hard of the two trees, at as high as $12,000.


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 1, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Listen JR my :censored: does more tree work than you , and I have forgotten more as well , so lets not go there Mr. use a chain dull it and throw it away , maybe I'll learn the bowline today. My question to you is this , what the :censored: are you out cutting trees for when the fries are burning and the burgers need flipping ....



(Chuckling to self)

____________________________________
BT, thanks for the full serving there. I had no idea I can write that many things off. 

I repped ya.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 1, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> (Chuckling to self)
> 
> ____________________________________
> BT, thanks for the full serving there. I had no idea I can write that many things off.
> ...



FTA, you should of known that when you went into the biz.
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 1, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> FTA, you should of known that when you went into the biz.
> Jeff



Everything is not nice and even, straight and narrow. This biz is mostly filth and grime, illegals, under the table pay and liars, improvisation and accidents etc, etc. "Should have known that"....in this sea of the above.... more like could have known that given the just the right circumstances. Not meaning to rock your boat for anything, but your comment sticks well at face falue, but it doesn't weigh much in the huge underlying base of what the field is comprised of.

To counter the drift I seem to give away here, I am for paying my share of taxes and following all means of abiding by the obligations that come with owning the business. I'm even as good as never lying to the landfills about where the debris is from and whether it's for business or personal. I don't get to make as much money that way, but I don't want to start any bad practices either although the spectators, businessmen and otherwise, have advised me of the nefarious programs underlying the field of this business.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 1, 2009)

So now you know, right?
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 1, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> So now you know, right?
> Jeff



Well, I knew some of those things qualify....


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## tree MDS (Nov 3, 2009)

Got a crane job set up sunday myself. it should be nice, just a couple multi leadered dead hemlocks - probably adelgid. Job is in in a local cemetary so obviously i cant drive the tractor on it and I'm not breaking out the wheelbarrow. lol. also not a fan of roping tons of little hemlock branches and I cant see bouncing them off the headstones... sort of disrespectful. Its not a big job, just the crane plus my regular day rate. Something different though.

That makes three this year, an mds record! cant wait to take another ride on my reclining chair...I mean new saddle. should be better yet now that I've got The HC and the VT worked out. Picked up a 353xp (thought it was a 346, long story) with a 16" bar and that thinner chain (0.50?), I think I'll start with that saw. 

Doing just weekends now with the subs. Trying to gather some more nuts before winter. just looked at another one for an existing customer thats at least two days already, probably closer to four depending on what trees the town is responsible for. best part of that one is they "would want me to do it on a weekend", lol. Nice!

I'm starting to like my little tree biz again. Should be a good winter.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Got a crane job set up sunday myself. it should be nice, just a couple multi leadered dead hemlocks - probably adelgid. Job is in in a local cemetary so obviously i cant drive the tractor on it and I'm not breaking out the wheelbarrow. lol. also not a fan of roping tons of little hemlock branches and I cant see bouncing them off the headstones... sort of disrespectful. Its not a big job, just the crane plus my regular day rate. Something different though.
> 
> That makes three this year, an mds record! cant wait to take another ride on my reclining chair...I mean new saddle. should be better yet now that I've got The HC and the VT worked out. Picked up a 353xp (thought it was a 346, long story) with a 16" bar and that thinner chain (0.50?), I think I'll start with that saw.
> 
> ...



You know you gotta show pics now, don't ya? lol. What's the deal with weekends? You get a day job or something?


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## tree MDS (Nov 3, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> You know you gotta show pics now, don't ya? lol. What's the deal with weekends? You get a day job or something?



Its not all that pic worthy really. But I'll take them anyways sinse it is a crane job...but I think its gonna be a while before I get this computer/pic thing figured out. lol :monkey:

No weekday crew at the moment and I usually die in december anyways (no more new guys this year please), so I just want to make some more scratch to fatten up the bank account (think wood stove/project dump truck). Weekend crew is the best anyways, good friends with tons of exp. I may have my other buddy do one so I can watch and take pics.


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## OTG BOSTON (Nov 3, 2009)

JC...when they gonna let you use the 120t


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## treeslayer (Nov 3, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> So now you know, right?
> Jeff


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## oldirty (Nov 3, 2009)

OTG BOSTON said:


> JC...when they gonna let you use the 120t



i dont know brother but i can not ####ing wait. i so look forward to that day. once we get into that season again, it'll be on.


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## oldirty (Nov 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Got a crane job set up sunday myself. it should be nice, just a couple multi leadered dead hemlocks - probably adelgid. Job is in in a local cemetary so obviously i cant drive the tractor on it and I'm not breaking out the wheelbarrow. lol. also not a fan of roping tons of little hemlock branches and I cant see bouncing them off the headstones... sort of disrespectful. Its not a big job, just the crane plus my regular day rate. Something different though.
> 
> That makes three this year, an mds record! cant wait to take another ride on my reclining chair...I mean new saddle. should be better yet now that I've got The HC and the VT worked out. Picked up a 353xp (thought it was a 346, long story) with a 16" bar and that thinner chain (0.50?), I think I'll start with that saw.
> 
> ...




nice! gotta love the respect for the dead too, cemeteries are a tough place to work in. 

good stuff.

definitely get some pics.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 3, 2009)

oldirty said:


> cemeteries are a tough place to work in.



For real. I don't like them one bit. Crane is def the way to go, MDS.


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## tree MDS (Nov 4, 2009)

Thanks blakes and oldirty.

Crane was a good choice I think. I can only imagine how much longer this job would take without one...rigging down the branches and tops, brush dragging, then roping the wood and breaking out the wheelbarrow - no thanks!

This way it cost them the same and we look better too. Besides, theres no regular crew to worry about keeping busy at the moment.

I'm glad I finally got over my crane phobia, you wouldnt believe some of the rigging I used to do to avoid a crane (and to keep a guy busy), it was just my old school training. I had to learn to be able to do this whithin my own company pretty much.

Hey oldirty: someday I promise to post pics of "old brown's last hurrah". that was the best one yet, the old dog got her done for sure. That whole job was like a carnival ride, but you already know what thats about. lol


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## squad143 (Nov 4, 2009)

beowulf343 said:


> being able to stop at a tim horton's every morning.QUOTE]
> 
> Gotta love Tims. I have to stop and have one every morning (when I'm not working cottage country). That stuff is addictive.
> 
> ...


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## toddstreeservic (Nov 4, 2009)

squad143 said:


> beowulf343 said:
> 
> 
> > being able to stop at a tim horton's every morning.QUOTE]
> ...


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## tree md (Nov 5, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Got a crane job set up sunday myself. it should be nice, just a couple multi leadered dead hemlocks - probably adelgid. Job is in in a local cemetary so obviously i cant drive the tractor on it and I'm not breaking out the wheelbarrow. lol. also not a fan of roping tons of little hemlock branches and I cant see bouncing them off the headstones... sort of disrespectful. Its not a big job, just the crane plus my regular day rate. Something different though.
> 
> That makes three this year, an mds record! cant wait to take another ride on my reclining chair...I mean new saddle. should be better yet now that I've got The HC and the VT worked out. Picked up a 353xp (thought it was a 346, long story) with a 16" bar and that thinner chain (0.50?), I think I'll start with that saw.
> 
> ...



Definitely get some pics!

LOL, what saddle did you get again. I think you told me before but I forgot. I love my.. well, not so new anymore saddle. It's still kind of new to me since it's the first upgrade in style I have made in years. Anyway, Love my Petzl Mini Boss. Thanks again for cluing me in on that saddle OD!


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## ropensaddle (Nov 5, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> For real. I don't like them one bit. Crane is def the way to go, MDS.



Awwwwwww don't tell me ya gets the spooks lol


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Awwwwwww don't tell me ya gets the spooks lol



That might be a portion of it but mainly it's just the PITA that all cemetery work brings to the table. Whether you're climbing, dragging, carrying, or in a bucket ( like you can get one of them 'round a cemetery lol ) it's just non-stop annoyance, period.


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## tree MDS (Nov 5, 2009)

tree md said:


> Definitely get some pics!
> 
> LOL, what saddle did you get again. I think you told me before but I forgot. I love my.. well, not so new anymore saddle. It's still kind of new to me since it's the first upgrade in style I have made in years. Anyway, Love my Petzl Mini Boss. Thanks again for cluing me in on that saddle OD!



I got the arbormaster versatile, with the deluxe package..the fancy clips and the sliding waist belt deal (instead of one hole every two inches). its gonna be new to me for a while, sinse I climbed for fifteen years or more on the old one. Lol.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

And I seriously don't like being on top of graves, seems disrespectful but is unavoidable when working.


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## oldirty (Nov 7, 2009)

tree md said:


> . Anyway, Love my Petzl Mini Boss. Thanks again for cluing me in on that saddle OD!



i've been meaning to ask you about the saddle. how she holding up? mine is still in good shape. psyched about that, i was a little worried about its toughness but so far so good.

bigger d rings and it would be the best saddle ever. soooo easy to step into and cinch it up. perfect fit no matter how many layers you got on.

i cant believe they stopped making that saddle. some one screwed up by stopping production on the miniboss thats for sure. attachments galore for that saddle. you can throw the stuff you need to SRT on it too. and the shoulder harness too i think. youve been doing more SRT lately havent ya? still havent tried it yet. ive rope climbed maybe 5 trees since i started at this company man. lol. just straight crane removal.

have you had the pleasure of a crane ride in that saddle yet?


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## ropensaddle (Nov 7, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> That might be a portion of it but mainly it's just the PITA that all cemetery work brings to the table. Whether you're climbing, dragging, carrying, or in a bucket ( like you can get one of them 'round a cemetery lol ) it's just non-stop annoyance, period.



I love bombing chunks:hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree md (Nov 8, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i've been meaning to ask you about the saddle. how she holding up? mine is still in good shape. psyched about that, i was a little worried about its toughness but so far so good.
> 
> bigger d rings and it would be the best saddle ever. soooo easy to step into and cinch it up. perfect fit no matter how many layers you got on.
> 
> ...



No crane work since I got it OD but I have done a few large removals where I had to spend some time in the saddle. Very comfy! I did see what you were talking about with the straps loosening up on the rope bridge attachment. I am working on a permanent solution for that. Really not a big deal as long as you keep it in mind and tighten it up as needed. I am in the habit of looking my saddle over before I climb anyway.

Bigger D rings would be a major improvement. However, I have climbed with saddles with the smaller D rings before and it is no big deal once you get used to them.

I have been doing a little SRT but I still mostly ascend on a doubled line and always work on a double line. I am about to go all out with it though and buy more gear to use for SRT so I can play around in the slow season.

Best thing this saddle has going for it is the comfort. Most comfortable saddle I have ever climbed in. I love it!


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## oldirty (Nov 8, 2009)

i ended up duct taping everything but the waist straps. no problems now with that. even the leg straps like to get loose. oh well they got taped too.


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## treemandan (Nov 8, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i ended up duct taping everything but the waist straps. no problems now with that. even the leg straps like to get loose. oh well they got taped too.



Oh we gotta see this.


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## oldirty (Nov 8, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Oh we gotta see this.



there is a pic in that thread of me with the treehouse. i put black electrical tape on the leg straps. you can see the tape spots clear in that pic.


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## jomoco (Nov 8, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i ended up duct taping everything but the waist straps. no problems now with that. even the leg straps like to get loose. oh well they got taped too.



It's going to take a heckuvalot more than duct tape to sell me on those idiotic new little D rings on some of the saddles now. I hate them, think they're dangerous, and quite likely to get a climber killed who's accustomed to the old school large D rings.

They're the most ill conceived dangerous frustrating arborist's saddles on the market.

You're right on target about stiffening things up on your saddle OD, and that includes the upper D rings themselves. The old school sierra moreno saddles and their highly stiffened large upper D rings will be my next saddle component purchase. Nothing more frustrating than chasing a floppy D ring around in a critical situation trying to secure yourself.

It must be a rock climber saddle design theme that unfortunately got introduced into the tree biz somehow.

I have little doubt that little D ring saddles have caused falls and accidents in this biz already.

jomoco


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## tree md (Nov 8, 2009)

jomoco said:


> It's going to take a heckuvalot more than duct tape to sell me on those idiotic new little D rings on some of the saddles now. I hate them, think they're dangerous, and quite likely to get a climber killed who's accustomed to the old school large D rings.
> 
> They're the most ill conceived dangerous frustrating arborist's saddles on the market.
> 
> ...



Jomoco, I absolutely agree with you on the rock climbing design being introduced to the tree biz. I never liked the rock climbing type harnesses.

The saddle we are talking about does have stiff D's they are just smaller than the large D's on most tree saddles. I am in the habit of giving my lanyard a tug before I lean back on it for safety sake. Takes a little while to be able to do it in the blind but it comes with practice. I would much prefer larger D's tho.

The saddle is very comfortable and there are lots of options to customize. I put a rope bridge on mine and plan to do a little more customizing. My leg straps will work lose every couple of weeks or so it seems like. No biggie for me. They have rubber deals to hold them in place and they work pretty good. They are not like the buckle straps on the old school saddles, they are sliding adjustable buckles. OD is not talking about stiffening them up he's talking about putting a piece of tape on them to keep them from loosening up. I think I will try the same.


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