# Sawmills 101



## lumberjach (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey fellas. I am seriously thinking about my first sawmill. I am an arborist and im thinkin a portable would be best(mill on site). I was thinking an Alaskan saw mill but I dont know if it will keep up with me and my workload. The Idea is to get paid on the same tree twice. Ive never used a rippin chain so I dont know how efficient these mills are. My goal is a lucas but I gotta start somewhere. Please keep in mind the terrain here, its hilly. Any input is useful. Thanks


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## woodshop (Feb 11, 2009)

lumberjach said:


> Hey fellas. I am seriously thinking about my first sawmill. I am an arborist and im thinkin a portable would be best(mill on site). I was thinking an Alaskan saw mill but I dont know if it will keep up with me and my workload. The Idea is to get paid on the same tree twice. Ive never used a rippin chain so I dont know how efficient these mills are. My goal is a lucas but I gotta start somewhere. Please keep in mind the terrain here, its hilly. Any input is useful. Thanks



If portability is something you need, and production bandmill is not practical, consider the Ripsaw/Alaskan mill combo
http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19709


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## lumberjach (Feb 11, 2009)

some bandmills are portable though,right? Timberking? Versatile?


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## lumberjach (Feb 11, 2009)

If you have a rippin chain with a good enough powerhead, Does it cut as fast as a crosscut chain?


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## lumberjach (Feb 11, 2009)

Let me add, same power head one rippin and one crosscuttin a log. which cuts faster? I think that will give me a good idea.


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## carvinmark (Feb 11, 2009)

Ripping is alot slower by far. If you are after speed, you need a band mill. I don't own a band mill but I do own a CSM and have cut lots on both kinds so what I am saying comes from experience.


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## irishcountry (Feb 11, 2009)

CMS slower than crosscutting at least in my trials but I like it!! If your looking at time is money and can swing it I would think from a business aspect a bandmill would be in order. If you want wood to use yourself and don't want to build a home out of it tomorrow a CMS is fine.


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## redprospector (Feb 12, 2009)

I've heard that the Lucas mill is pretty good. I have been looking at the Mobile Dimension Saw for a circle saw.
There are a lot of portable band saw mill's, but you won't get them into a lot of residentual back yards. 
If you go with a band mill, and have any kind of production in mind, get one with hydraulics.

Andy


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## Backwoods (Feb 12, 2009)

I run an LT-70 woodmizer always portable. Think of it as boat trailer, if you can drive up along side of the log, it will make short work of it. If that tree is in the back yard over the bank, you will need a way of getting it moved so the mill can pull up along side it. One of the portable round sawmills like the Peterson and Lucas could be packed to the log and then everything packed back out They can make short work of a log as well. I find the chainsaw mill to be very slow in comparison. 
Another option would be to get ahold of some of the portable sawmills in you area and broker a deal so that you still get a kickback of some sort when ever they mill a log for you. Everyone comes out ahead. The tree owner got the tree completely removed, the sawyer got a milling job, you get a bonus for putting the whole thing together, and you did not have to buy any more equipment, therefore, you do not have the extra burden of maintaining the equipment.


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## BlueRider (Feb 13, 2009)

Backwoods said:


> I run an LT-70 woodmizer always portable. Think of it as boat trailer, if you can drive up along side of the log, it will make short work of it. If that tree is in the back yard over the bank, you will need a way of getting it moved so the mill can pull up along side it. One of the portable round sawmills like the Peterson and Lucas could be packed to the log and then everything packed back out They can make short work of a log as well. I find the chainsaw mill to be very slow in comparison.
> Another option would be to get ahold of some of the portable sawmills in you area and broker a deal so that you still get a kickback of some sort when ever they mill a log for you. Everyone comes out ahead. The tree owner got the tree completely removed, the sawyer got a milling job, you get a bonus for putting the whole thing together, and you did not have to buy any more equipment, therefore, you do not have the extra burden of maintaining the equipment.



I have milled a few logs where the deal was put together by the estimater for a tree removal company. since I milled the trunk he could give the homeownder a lower price and I have handed out a handfull of cards for the estimater. No kick back but everyone still wins.

I know a small sawyer who buys from tree removal guys. he typicaly pays a little more than the gas to haul to him. the tree guys win by not having to pay to dump the logs.


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## TedChristiansen (Feb 14, 2009)

You might want to check out the Logosol products as well (http://www.logosol.com).

I started with the Timberjig (like an Alaskan), but upgraded to the Woodworkers Mill after about 1 year because bending over on my knees and having to push the saw through the log got really old. With the WWM you can stand up. It is still portable, though not as much as an Alaskan. It weighs 100 lbs without the saw or log ramps, so I can be carried from the pickup bed for some distance.

Ted


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## BobL (Feb 14, 2009)

TedChristiansen said:


> You might want to check out the Logosol products as well (http://www.logosol.com).
> 
> I started with the Timberjig (like an Alaskan), but upgraded to the Woodworkers Mill after about 1 year because bending over on my knees and having to push the saw through the log got really old.



There is no need to bend significantly, be on your knees, and there should be minimal pushing involved when using an alaskan mill. If these were essential I would never have become involved with alaskan milling. Any log that can be place onto a WWM can be lifted off the ground using jacks and onto gluts or strong sawhorses, to a standing working height. Using natural or artificial slopes make it easier still and with short logs where steeper sawing slopes are practical there can be near zero pushing involved. Sure by the time one adds up the weight of sawhorses, rails and a jack we're approaching the 100 lb mark, but all this allows the operator to mill on relatively steep slopes, and tackle irregular shaped and/or really big logs. The alaskan design with the addition of a few simple techniques and jigs (like plastic skids and inboard adjustable wheels) continue to make it the most versatile portable mill around, certainly for breaking up logs. 

I cycle around about a dozen designs of unfixed and fixed small scale sawmill configurations in my head (single/double/multiple beam,vertical/horizontal/sloped, fixed to log/ground, and some outside the square over/under designs) and have notebooks with many ideas sketched and scribbled out in them. No matter which way I look at at it, for what I like to do I always seem to come back to the basic alaskan. Of course, as they say, "your mileage may vary", and if I did this for a living, design sacrifices would have to be made to increase productivity.


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## rtrsam (Feb 15, 2009)

BobL said:


> There is no need to bend significantly, be on your knees, and there should be minimal pushing involved when using an alaskan mill. If these were essential I would never have become involved with alaskan milling. Any log that can be place onto a WWM can be lifted off the ground using jacks and onto gluts or strong sawhorses, to a standing working height. Using natural or artificial slopes make it easier still and with short logs where steeper sawing slopes are practical there can be near zero pushing involved. Sure by the time one adds up the weight of sawhorses, rails and a jack we're approaching the 100 lb mark, but all this allows the operator to mill on relatively steep slopes, and tackle irregular shaped and/or really big logs. The alaskan design with the addition of a few simple techniques and jigs (like plastic skids and inboard adjustable wheels) continue to make it the most versatile portable mill around, certainly for breaking up logs.
> 
> I cycle around about a dozen designs of unfixed and fixed small scale sawmill configurations in my head (single/double/multiple beam,vertical/horizontal/sloped, fixed to log/ground, and some outside the square over/under designs) and have notebooks with many ideas sketched and scribbled out in them. No matter which way I look at at it, for what I like to do I always seem to come back to the basic alaskan. Of course, as they say, "your mileage may vary", and if I did this for a living, design sacrifices would have to be made to increase productivity.



I'd be real interested in looking at some of these sketched pictures of different portable sawmills you've got in your head. Your comment made me chuckle, when you said you always come back to the basic Alaskan. It reminded me of a time when a friend and I were working on a trail project where we had to carrry rocks a considerable distance. We were trying to come up with a tray with handles so you could put a rock in the tray, have a person in front and a person in back grab handles and carry the rock. Then we decided to try to come up with a way to put a wheel under the tray for when the trail was flat enough. After a couple hours of knocking around ideas, we realized we'd just invented...the wheelbarrow.

Here's a couple picutres of a saw frame I've built and used a lot. there's no saw mounted in the pictures, and I've got no action shots of it readily avaliable, but I think you get the idea. It's a variation on the "Beam Machine" portable mill, set up to hold a saw rigid and slide over a full dimension 2x6 (which we had a lot of at the time). I'd use an Alaskan mill to saw cants, then trim the cants to the deisred dimension with this rig.


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## BobL (Feb 15, 2009)

rtrsam said:


> I'd be real interested in looking at some of these sketched pictures of different portable sawmills you've got in your head.


Unfortunately they wouldn't mean much as they tend to be sketches relating to 1 or 2 specific features at any one time. For example, here is one where I am playing around with design elements of the fixing point for an anti-bar-sagging device - this is applicable to any mill using a large horizontal bar. I doubt it will mean anything much to anyone.






As you can see my sketches are really pretty scrappy and would require considerable tidying up and labeling to be meaningful. I have very few sketches of a complete mill. Most of my sketch books are at work but here's my scratchings that show a quarter of a mill where I worked out what I needed for the first mill I made.




And here is the result.







> Your comment made me chuckle, when you said you always come back to the basic Alaskan. It reminded me of a time when a friend and I were working on a trail project where we had to carrry rocks a considerable distance. We were trying to come up with a tray with handles so you could put a rock in the tray, have a person in front and a person in back grab handles and carry the rock. Then we decided to try to come up with a way to put a wheel under the tray for when the trail was flat enough. After a couple hours of knocking around ideas, we realized we'd just invented...the wheelbarrow.


Love it! Apparently even musicians have the same problem! 



> Here's a couple picutres of a saw frame I've built and used a lot. there's no saw mounted in the pictures, and I've got no action shots of it readily avaliable, but I think you get the idea. It's a variation on the "Beam Machine" portable mill, set up to hold a saw rigid and slide over a full dimension 2x6 (which we had a lot of at the time). I'd use an Alaskan mill to saw cants, then trim the cants to the deisred dimension with this rig.


I like it, very simple and it looks like it would be very effective. I have several beam machine sketches somewhere - which reminds me I need to get back to that sometime.


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## rtrsam (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks for those pictures, when I get a few minutes I'll look them over closer. I'm liking that old Mac 10-10, I used to have a hot rodded version of that saw for competitions. I ended up taking it out in the woods to fall with a few times, though.


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## BobL (Feb 16, 2009)

Here's a few more sketches.

This one shows the initial cam lock designs I ended up using on the BIL mill but can be used on any mill.





These were the sketches I started on for a beam mill xsection.




Don't ask me to explain what they mean as I have forgotten the details.


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## rtrsam (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for the more pictures. I'm working on a job application today, so I'll not get a chance to really try and figure them out for a little while yet.

I did look at the BIL Mill in your signature; that's pretty nice setup. I need to do something like that, a permanent rig that can at least get the first cut going on a round log.

I was really struck by your old Stihl 076 in the pictures. Between that and your old Mac 10-10 it's like you raided my saw shop twenty years ago. Other than being a little lighter to carry and less engine vibrations, nothing I run today is any better than those old saws. Shoot, I'd stack that old Mac up pound for pound against anything I'm running now.


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## BobL (Feb 16, 2009)

rtrsam said:


> I was really struck by your old Stihl 076 in the pictures. Between that and your old Mac 10-10 it's like you raided my saw shop twenty years ago. Other than being a little lighter to carry and less engine vibrations, nothing I run today is any better than those old saws. Shoot, I'd stack that old Mac up pound for pound against anything I'm running now.



Unfortunately the little Mac dropped the little end bearing and "needs some work". The 076 is still going strong but I have recently upgraded to this 880. 




I haven't put it in wood yet - still a bit hot fer millin in these parts.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 3, 2009)

Nice hieroglyphics Bob :hmm3grin2orange:


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## BobL (Jun 4, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Nice hieroglyphics Bob :hmm3grin2orange:



Yeah - they don't mean sheet right! 

My hieroglyphics are step one in the process but generally enough to go direct to a prototype because the hieroglyphics are just bits of any overall project. The overall plan is just held in my head and I roll it over and over so buy the time I'm ready to fire up a welder I can visualize it completely without a drawing. Sometimes I draw up a scale diagram with dimensions or a simple plan on the computer like this.




But usually I just start cutting up bits of metal and wood and go with the flo!

Cheers


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## HUCKLEBERRY (Jun 4, 2009)

*Easy CAD*

I've recently started getting alot of mileage from a free CAD program that is pretty intuitive to use. Google Sketchup is the program and the basic program can be downloaded from thier site. It's easy, free and can be used for almost anything. It's a 3D program which enables you to easily move around your model. Its pretty cool to catch a mistake that you would'nt have seen otherwise. I've really enjoyed using it and I'm pretty much a knuckle dragger when it comes to computers. If you have'nt tried it already give it a shot. It will keep you occupied until you have enough money to actually pay for the project.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 4, 2009)

BobL said:


> Yeah - they don't mean sheet right!
> 
> My hieroglyphics are step one in the process but generally enough to go direct to a prototype because the hieroglyphics are just bits of any overall project. The overall plan is just held in my head and I roll it over and over so buy the time I'm ready to fire up a welder I can visualize it completely without a drawing. Sometimes I draw up a scale diagram with dimensions or a simple plan on the computer like this.
> 
> ...



Bob you do awesome work and I am not as gifted as you but our drawing look very very similar in any project I start lol


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## BobL (Jun 4, 2009)

Cheers R&S, I'm really pleased that others on this forum get a kick out of my little projects. Most of my relatives and friends just glaze over and shake their heads at what I do. BIL (who helped me make the BIL mill) Joe is good value though, even though he's not into wood, we can chew the fat for hours over various metal work projects and I love watching him work - he's a real craftsman and ideas person, I'm more of the ideas person and not so hot on the craftsmanship.


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