# Recommendations for a Newb



## kiteboarder (Oct 5, 2016)

Hi,

My plan is to climb trees on my property to trim and clean small limbs and such. I don't intend to cut off large limbs due to the dangers of it. I will be climbing mostly cedars and oaks. I want to clean the trunks of cedars because as they grow, the lowest limbs dry off but stay on the tree for a long time. I want those off. The oaks could use a bit of cleaning and trimming. I have a couple of firs here and there too.

My intention is to climb vertically with spikes and a harness. I would be using small axes, machete and 18 inch chainsaw for the work. I don't intent to do very high climbs. Maybe 50 feet and usually for short periods.

I've been reading on the subject on various sites as well as here. I do have some recommendations that I need and maybe you can help:

1. I see and have read about the differences between an arborist harness, climbing harness and hunting tree climbing harness. Which would you recommend for the light work I intend to do? Any specific models?

2. Any recommendations for climbing straps?

Apart from helmet, spikes, harness and climbing strap... anything else you think I need?

I know I sound like a newb, which is what I am, but I intend to learn more and read more before I do my first climb. Not to mention, my first few climbs I'll keep to 25 ft at the most.


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## greengreer (Oct 5, 2016)

Please don't use spikes, or a chainsaw, or hatchet or anything but a handsaw. You need an arborist saddle, an arborists climb line, a flipline, a throwline and throw bag, and a copy of tree climbers companion. Oh and a good helmet. 
Spike create wounds in the tree that are pathways to infection and rot, learn how to do it with a rope and saddle. 
Spend $40 on a decent handsaw and it will do everything you need. Tie in twice while cutting. Also do some research on making proper cuts. If you are going to do this, do it right. Not to sound like an a-hole but please dont become another statistic that drives up insurance rates for the people who do this safely for a living.


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## unclemoustache (Oct 5, 2016)

Howdy and welcome.

First of all, DO NOT climb trees with spurs unless the tree is going to be taken out. The gaff holes do damage to the trees and could cause lots of problems. I've got an oak on my property that is dying just for that reason - it was spiked about 5 years ago. What a shame.

I recommend you get up into the canopy with a ladder. Now, before I get blasted by others for suggesting you work from a ladder, let me be very clear here. You certainly can work from a ladder, but there are significant dangers. You MUST tie the top of the ladder to the tree in case a swinging or falling branch knocks the ladder from under you. Also, if you rest the ladder against a branch and cut that same branch, the sudden release of weight will cause the remainder of the branch to lift up, possibly over the height of the ladder. And you also want to tie yourself in to the tree as well - not the same rope (and preferably not the same location) as the ladder. You never know when a bee or squirrel might startle you and cause you to lose your grip or footing.

As for cutting large limbs, they are not much more dangerous than small limbs, especially if you have a clear drop zone (no power lines, fences, houses, cars, children, land mines, etc). Watch a pile of videos online and you'll see a few techniques on how it's done (or done wrong!). Watching people who don't know what they're doing is also a good education in what not to do.

The principle is that you start about a foot or more from the trunk to make a cut underneath the branch first (about 10% - 20% through the thickness of the branch) then cut from the top the rest of the way through. (If you cut too far through the bottom, the weight of the branch will pinch the saw blade, and you'll not be able to get it out for anything. Have a spare saw on hand!) Once that is done than you can cut the stump back properly. However, bear in mind that it's healthier for the tree if you cut it back to the 'collar' of the branch, and not flush with the trunk. Here's a quick vid of the principle:  

As for tools, I recommend you have a top-handle chainsaw for one-handed work. If that's not affordable, then a pruning saw (as shown in the video) is better than a hatchet and machete. You can't control a hatchet as well as you need for a good clean cut, so use a saw of some kind. You'd be amazed at how much you can get done with just a pruning saw.

For a harness, I think anything will do - it's a fall-arrest system so that if you fall, it will keep you from splatting on the ground. You can even make your own out of rope, but it may not be very comfortable. I taught my kids to rappel and made harnesses for them out of cheap 1" webbing straps.

I'd recommend getting a decent rope. Go to your local rock climbing shop and get at least 100' of something that's at least 1/2" thick (12 mm). Learn how to tie a couple knots - the bowline is an excellent all-around knot to know.

That's all I have time for right now - chili for dinner tonight! Hopefully some others will chime in with more advice.


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## kiteboarder (Oct 5, 2016)

Thanks to both of you! This is the sort of thing I'm looking for. Straight honest answers. Plus, you just saved me from spending money on the wrong gear. I', reading those two posts again a few times until they really sink in. Hopefully I'll get more on this thread. I'll post more feedback as I continue my research. Thanks again.

By the way, what do you think about the climbing ladder that you tie in parts to the tree? It's foldable and you tie one section as as you go up you tie more sections.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 5, 2016)

Oh god,,,,I am speechless,,,,
Jeff


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## greengreer (Oct 5, 2016)

So many things wrong with that post that I don't even know where to begin...
No to ladders. No to buying a top handle saw and no to one handing it. No to "any old saddle will do", arborist saddles aren't fall arrest, they are for work positioning. No to rock climbing rope, very different from what we use and will not be beneficial to your needs. 
Sorry to shoot you down uncle mustache, but I do this for a living. I'm all about diy and I think it's great the op wants to learn but there are too many people out there that just get out a ladder and a chainsaw and trim their trees, often resulting in the tree or the individual getting mutilated for no good reason. Not sure yet which is worse...


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## kiteboarder (Oct 5, 2016)

Ok, fair enough. Let's see. Let's simplify this a bit....

1. I'm one of those DIYers, but the type that won't even start until I'm 100% sure I'm safe. I think things through very well and learn things well before I even start. Safety first, second and third.

2. I don't intend to get in over my head. I'm happy trimming the first 25 feet of tree trunk. If I need to go higher than that, I'm happy to hire a pro.

3. I just need to be able to work the first 25 feet of tree safely. I have about 15-30 trees I need to work on on the low level. If I do that, I'm happy with the progress and the difference it will make. If I need to do more than that next year, I can hire a pro.

So, having said all that, I need the advice and recommendations to do that "easy" low-level work safely. I'm happy to use a hand saw. I have a chainsaw and pole chainsaw that I can keep for just ground work. Been using a chain saw since I was like 14, I'm approaching 40 now. I'm not new to hands-on work.


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## ksvanbrunt (Oct 5, 2016)

kiteboarder said:


> Ok, fair enough. Let's see. Let's simplify this a bit....
> 
> 1. I'm one of those DIYers, but the type that won't even start until I'm 100% sure I'm safe. I think things through very well and learn things well before I even start. Safety first, second and third.
> 
> ...


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## ksvanbrunt (Oct 5, 2016)

kiteboarder said:


> Ok, fair enough. Let's see. Let's simplify this a bit....
> 
> 1. I'm one of those DIYers, but the type that won't even start until I'm 100% sure I'm safe. I think things through very well and learn things well before I even start. Safety first, second and third.
> 
> ...



If you are after 25 ft, order a nice telescoping polesaw online. You can get them that extend over 20 ft. Have a small step ladder to get the last few feet if needed or stand on the bed of a truck. This would be your cheapest and most safe way.


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## domonick (Oct 6, 2016)

Goodluck be safe and have a goodtime o and make some $$$.


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## kiteboarder (Oct 6, 2016)

^^^ Thanks. But, I'm not making any money. I know this is mostly a pro site, but what I'm doing is strictly for maintenance on my property.

I'm going to see how far up I can go with a pole saw and maybe a ladder (or one like this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032X015Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A19XE0CFLN81HP which ties to the tree), for the cedar. Since those barely have limbs I just don't see how the heck I would climb one without spikes. The oaks look at a lot easier as there are plenty of strong limbs to attached harness lines too. Again, not climbing very high, but I can at least see how those can be done more safely. I think after that I'll be pretty much set.


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## BC WetCoast (Oct 6, 2016)

Cedars can be climbed, but getting your rope set can be a giant pain, especially if they have sloping branches. 

Regardless of what others have said, I would recommend a ladder with the following provisos to make it safe. Use an extension ladder and wear a climbing saddle and lanyard/climbing line. When you have climbed to the top of the ladder, before you do anything else, tie yourself into the tree by either the lanyard or climbing line. Many cedars around here, the lower branches slope heavily, so wrap the line around the tree. Once you are tied in, you can either enter the canopy and have someone on the ground take the ladder away, or use the ladder as a place to stand. 

The danger in using a ladder comes when you are not tied in. Large limbs are known to come down and knock out the bottom of the ladder. If you are tied in when this happens, you obviously will not fall. It would be same as standing on a branch when you are tied in and having the branch break.

Using a ladder to climb into the canopy is something we do commonly as a significant amount of our work is conifers and isolating a throwline around a secure branch can be a challenging exercise in patience, if you can throw into the tree in the first place.


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## kiteboarder (Oct 6, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> Cedars can be climbed, but getting your rope set can be a giant pain, especially if they have sloping branches.
> 
> Regardless of what others have said, I would recommend a ladder with the following provisos to make it safe. Use an extension ladder and wear a climbing saddle and lanyard/climbing line. When you have climbed to the top of the ladder, before you do anything else, tie yourself into the tree by either the lanyard or climbing line. Many cedars around here, the lower branches slope heavily, so wrap the line around the tree. Once you are tied in, you can either enter the canopy and have someone on the ground take the ladder away, or use the ladder as a place to stand.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice. That makes a lot of sense. I was just out looking at the tree and I can clearly see how I could tie a line around some of them. Some of them look more challenging, but I can start with the easy ones first.

By the way, I'll post some pics of some of the trees soon when I get a chance...


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## ksvanbrunt (Oct 6, 2016)

I would definitely not recommend using an ext. ladder strappeto the tree. Even if you are "strapped" in to the tree with a positioning ladder and a limb takes out the ladder, then what? Just hang out until someone sees you?

Seriously, a pole saw will reach everything it sounds like you need, it will be the cheapest and the most useful tool for your property. PLEASE don't try to climb without professional training. As someone already stated, we do not need people thinking that this line of work is "so easy" that they end up getting hurt. That translates to an "arboricultural" accident and makes us look like a bunch of punks which raises our workers comp rates.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 6, 2016)




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## kiteboarder (Oct 6, 2016)

By the way, I would not do this alone. My son would help reposition the ladder if necessary. Again, I'm also not doing this professional for work, just on my property. Secondly, I've seeing the videos of people taking out branches that are took big and they swinging down and taking out ladders. I'm not going to do that. I would tie the limb with a secondary rope if necessary. I think a lot of this is common sense too. A lot of people don't have it.


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## unclemoustache (Oct 6, 2016)

greengreer said:


> So many things wrong with that post that I don't even know where to begin...
> No to ladders. No to buying a top handle saw and no to one handing it. No to "any old saddle will do", arborist saddles aren't fall arrest, they are for work positioning. No to rock climbing rope, very different from what we use and will not be beneficial to your needs.
> Sorry to shoot you down uncle mustache, but I do this for a living. I'm all about diy and I think it's great the op wants to learn but there are too many people out there that just get out a ladder and a chainsaw and trim their trees, often resulting in the tree or the individual getting mutilated for no good reason. Not sure yet which is worse...



You must be union.....


So, do you have any practical advice or do you just want to sound like an OSHA commercial? ("No to this, no to that, no to this, no to that....")

What's the deal with a top handle saw? Every pro uses them.

And why not use them one-handed? Tell me, what is the purpose for putting the handle on the top?

So what kind of saddle should he get?

What's the major difference between a rock climbing rope and an arborist climbing rope? 


You say you're concerned about people and trees getting hurt, but you gave no practical advice at all, nor any reasons why my advice was bad. If you do this for a living, than you should be a veritable wealth of information, so out with it.

This OP is obviously ignorant about tree work, but he's also smart enough to bone up significantly on his knowledge before tackling it. I don't see any reason why we can't all chip in and give him practical advice suitable to his needs


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 6, 2016)

kiteboarder said:


> By the way, I would not do this alone. My son would help reposition the ladder if necessary. Again, I'm also not doing this professional for work, just on my property. Secondly, I've seeing the videos of people taking out branches that are took big and they swinging down and taking out ladders. I'm not going to do that. I would tie the limb with a secondary rope if necessary. I think a lot of this is common sense too. A lot of people don't have it.



Dude, you are killing me!
If we can not talk you out of it,
please video it and post it from the hospital room,,
have your son get out of the way before you start cutting and tell him when to press 'Record',,
tell him to take the ladder with him,,
Jeff


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## ksvanbrunt (Oct 6, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dude, you are killing me!
> If we can not talk you out of it,
> please video it and post it from the hospital room,,
> have your son get out of the way before you start cutting and tell him when to press 'Record',,
> ...



Thanks Jeff.I wanted to say this but I'm too nice of a guy. Good on you sir!


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## greengreer (Oct 7, 2016)

unclemoustache said:


> You must be union.....
> 
> 
> So, do you have any practical advice or do you just want to sound like an OSHA commercial? ("No to this, no to that, no to this, no to that....")
> ...



Did you ever think there is a reason why we use some of the things we do? The tools created for arborist are engineered and tested to safely and efficiently climb trees.

Rock climbing rope is meant to absorb huge amounts of energy when a climber falls and would essentially be like climbing on a rubber band. Not to mention it really doesnt knot very well and will be difficult to make a basic hitch run well.

You said it about top handle saws. "Pro's use them all the time". It's critical to gain some experience and comfort just being in a tree before making any cuts, especially with a chainsaw. The op said he wanted to trim smaller branches so why spend $300+ on a specialty tool and then advocate cheaping out on the stuff that is life support. I.e. any old harness or webbing sling homebrew bs. A decent work positioning saddle isnt terribly expensive. A decent 16strand climbing line isn't any more than a decent rock climbing rope. I'm not advocating this guy buy everything a modern pro would use.
One handing is such muddy waters I am cautious to step into it here. In this situation let's just say pro's do it from time to time but it should be avoided whenever possible. No doubt there are more injuries from reckless one handing.

I am glad he came here for advice on a diy project he wants to handle. Unfortunately he, along with alot of others, have taken the name of this site too literally. Most people on here are not arborists. Most people on here are chainsaw geeks. Nothing wrong with that until they start giving out misinformation that could potentially be life threatening.
I definitely don't want to see the op hurt, or anyone for that matter, not because it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to offer safety tips, but because everytime harry-homeowner drops a tree on someone or falls off a ladder whilst hacking away at his trees and my girlfriend sees it on the news I have to explain why what I do is safe and how they are morons.


Kiteboarder
I guess I could have taken the safe route and just said "don't do it, call a pro", or the easy route and not posted at all. What I am offering is advice to be able to access a tree with a good level of safety. Who knows, you may really enjoy climbing and do it for fun. It's really cool to explore and experience a world that most people do not get to see.


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## kiteboarder (Oct 7, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dude, you are killing me!
> If we can not talk you out of it,
> please video it and post it from the hospital room,,
> have your son get out of the way before you start cutting and tell him when to press 'Record',,
> ...



Some of you guys are funny. Even after all my detailed posts you still see me cutting 6 inch thick branches that will come swinging at me and kill my puppies. Man, there are all kinds of "twigs" pretty much sticking out of the sides of all my cedar trees and it would be nice to clean those off. 2 to 3 inches tops and barely a couple of feet long. Same thing with my Oaks and firs.

Thing is I already cut a bunch of this stuff a few months ago using an 8 feet pole saw, a top handle chainsaw (Craftsman that's more than 25 years old from back when they used to make the stuff in USA), some rope and a ladder. All with the help of my son and my dad. I'm still here and at no point was I even close to falling or having a branch take out my ladder. I'm just looking for advice before I proceed with more and in case there are some more challenging cuts. My tallest tree is likely well over 150 feet and I have ZERO intention of even touching it.

Not everybody is daft. I can do dangerous stuff safely. Tree trimming isn't the only thing I already tackle.

I understand you all want to protect your insurance rates, but not everyone is a reckless knucklehead.


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## kiteboarder (Oct 7, 2016)

greengreer said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Kiteboarder
> I guess I could have taken the safe route and just said "don't do it, call a pro", or the easy route and not posted at all. What I am offering is advice to be able to access a tree with a good level of safety. Who knows, you may really enjoy climbing and do it for fun. It's really cool to explore and experience a world that most people do not get to see.



Thanks. Advice taken. I can clearly see when I'm over my head. As I'm working on my yard and my trees I'll be sure to stop when I see that I'll be taking it too far. Please see the post above. I still have more trees I can work on in much the same way I did a few months ago, but with better knowledge now. Thanks.


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## unclemoustache (Oct 7, 2016)

greengreer said:


> Did you ever think there is a reason why we use some of the things we do? The tools created for arborist are engineered and tested to safely and efficiently climb trees.
> 
> Rock climbing rope is meant to absorb huge amounts of energy when a climber falls and would essentially be like climbing on a rubber band. Not to mention it really doesnt knot very well and will be difficult to make a basic hitch run well.
> 
> ...





There we go. Excellent advice. I don't disagree with any of it. Thanks for that. 

But a brief rebuttal if I may:

I suggested rock climbing rope because it would be easier for him to obtain and probably cheaper. To be honest, my own main climbing rope is a rock rope. Works well in my Unicender, and certainly doesn't fell like a rubber band. I even used it today to help pull down a large elm.

Yes, a top handle is more dangerous and more expensive, but it's the tool of choice for working in the canopy. If you have a clue and are careful, you shouldn't have a problem.

Whether or not I'm an arborist is debatable. I'm not certified or trained, unless you call self-taught 'training.' I've watched many videos and read many books, and have a significant amount of experience, gradually tackling larger and more dangerous trees. Apparently I'm good enough that one of the local tree services calls me up to climb for them when needed. But it's important to know one's limitations and do all you can to eliminate risks. It seems like the OP has a good deal of common sense, but limited knowledge of tree work. If we can fill in that knowledge gap, I have no worries about him.

As for a pole saw, I got a 16' Echo, and that's the longest I could find. I don't know if other companies make longer ones, but if he can get one, that would be good as well, assuming he doesn't try and cut too thick of a limb.


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## ksvanbrunt (Oct 7, 2016)

unclemoustache said:


> There we go. Excellent advice. I don't disagree with any of it. Thanks for that.
> 
> But a brief rebuttal if I may:
> 
> ...



Hmmm. I have a 24ft ARS pole saw which works wonders, and as the OP stated, he only has 2-3inch limbs/stubs. I think it was only $180 as well from treestuff. Also, no offense but I would be a little skeptical taking advice from one who uses there main climbline as a tagline to pull over trees. Please correct me if I miss read that part because I'm a little freaked out.


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## kiteboarder (Oct 7, 2016)

I like the idea of the 24' pole saw. Also, I'm pretty sure my local Home Depot rents out that 16' Echo (or similar). I could get a lot done in one day with that thing. That would give me twice the reach of my 8 foot pole chainsaw.

I also have pretty good news... Because of the high risk wildfire area I live in there are local programs that split the difference in maintenance costs for creating firesafe perimeters around houses. That of course includes a lot of the work I'm already doing on my property. I'm going to apply. One of the big reasons for DIY is you can't afford the cost of a pro or you need to save money. If I can get in on that deal I would be able to tackle the smaller stuff myself, and leave the higher up climbing to a pro.


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## JeffGu (Oct 7, 2016)

There's nothing wrong with you learning a little climbing technique and wanting to do more of this stuff yourself. You're going to have to filter through a lot of moosepoop, even on an arborist site.
You don't need to spend a fortune. A climb line setup for MRS/DdRT only needs to be twice as long as the height you plan to climb. You always need a safe way back to the ground, and the ladder isn't going to be it. The safest way is to not work off the ladder... get onto the tree, tied in with both your climb line and the lanyard, and do the cutting. If the ladder falls or gets trashed by falling wood... who cares? They're a lot cheaper than brain surgery if you fall on your head.

There are numerous climb lines better suited than rock/mountain climbing ropes that are also cheaper. There are several low cost options for a harness that won't cost you several hundred dollars. I'll try to put a list of stuff together for you that's worth looking at.


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## unclemoustache (Oct 8, 2016)

ksvanbrunt said:


> . Also, no offense but I would be a little skeptical taking advice from one who uses there main climbline as a tagline to pull over trees. Please correct me if I miss read that part because I'm a little freaked out.



Yes, I didn't word that terrible well. I have a 5/8" bull rope, but forgot to bring it. Didn't need a whole lot of pull anyway- just a bit of help for the wedges.

And I'll agree I'm not the best one for advice around here, but at the same time there are far too many "it's-beyond-you-so-hire-a-pro" kind of people here, not to mention a few "you-should-only-buy-the-exact-professional-equipment-or-go-home" kind.


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## JeffGu (Oct 8, 2016)

A very good 24-strand doublebraid rope for both MRS (DdRT) and SRS (SRT) climbing is All Gear's _Cherry Bomb_ rope... at $105 for a 120' hank. You'll want either a hand-spliced or sewn tight eye on one end only.
Best $300 harness out there, as far as I'm concerned, is Buckingham's _Deluxe Master_ harness. Eight loops plus the side D's give you tons of options, and this saddle is built to last ten years or more, not fall apart or need repairs after two years. I have much more expensive saddles, but this is what I use on removals when I'm going to be in the tree for hours.
Since you'll probably want to start out on a Moving Rope System, a hitchclimber setup will require a suitable pulley, hitch cord, and a couple of carabiners. For the pulley, a red DMM _Hitch Climber_ will serve you well. A 28" Ocean Polyester _sewn eye-to-eye_, and a couple of red DMM _Ultra O_ carabiners will give you a nice color coordinated setup that works very well together. I'd recommend starting out using a Distel hitch... easy and quick to learn to tie and _very_ reliable. You can learn others, like the finicky VT, after you climb for awhile.
You'll need a climbing helmet. The CT _X-Arbor_ is a very good, lightweight one that is reasonably priced.

There are myriads of other options, but that gives you some very decent stuff to consider. I have quite a bit of slightly used stuff around here, too... and I'm sure many others on here do... which is an even cheaper option.


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## Griff93 (Oct 9, 2016)

Jeff gave you very good advice. I'll second the Buckingham's Deluxe master harness. We have three of them. I spent around 6 hours in mine yesterday. I'm really not sore from it at all. They are very comfy and stand up to years of use.


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## midwestguy1 (Oct 11, 2016)

Sign up as new member on sherritree they'll give you 20% off coupon towards first purchase. Buy 21ft pole saw
with step ladder or truck be 30ftn reach. Stay safe 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## TheGoodFellers (Jan 9, 2017)

Man injured from cut limb after receiving suggestions from an arborist forum.. pole saw & hardhat is your best bet.


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