# Bias truck tires



## phil21502 (Jan 15, 2014)

Have seen a couple posts on here about peeps bragging the bias traction tires. Anyone kno where u can still buy them? Also how do u think they would do on snowy roads? And lastly let's see some pics.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

Here's a link...
http://www.stausaonline.com/light-truck/super-traxion.html
They're noisy and rough riding on dry, paved roads... but once you try them off pavement, you'll never go back to radials for off-road utility use... that's a promise.
Snowy roads?? Well, when other guys are using 4-wheel drive to get to town, half the time I ain't even got my hubs locked-in yet.
*


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 15, 2014)

whitespider just wondering what youre comparing those bias ply to? as bias vs. radial is just a difference in the construction of the carcass, NOT the tread...


----------



## Cheesecutter (Jan 15, 2014)

Spidey, 20 minutes .... I knew it wouldn't take you long to reply.(LOL)


----------



## naturelover (Jan 15, 2014)

opcorn:


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

opcorn:opcorn:
This could be a fun thread to watch...

Um, this was settled like years ago when radials became popular. Radials have better traction than bias ply. Especially offroad. Bias ply tire will carry more weight, no doubt about it. That being said, if'n you got a load range E radial and put a *Bunch* of air in the thing it will carry more than is really sensible.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

Patrick62 said:


> *Radials have better traction than bias ply. Especially offroad.*



*LMAO‼*
Where did you hear that nonsense?? From a radial tire salesman??
You're thinking in terms of street tires, not traction-lug tires.
Go to the website I link to below and scroll down to the paragraph entitled (*Extreme (Rock Crawling/Mud Terrain/Sand/Deep Snow) Truck Tires*).
In that paragraph you'll find this...
_"Extreme terrain truck tires come in either radial or bias ply, __but do their job best in a low air pressure *bias ply*__, which allows the tread to conform to surfaces for increased traction."_ 
And if that ain't enough for ya, go to any website serious about off-road traction and start reading.

http://www.4wheelparts.com/tire-wheel-package-guide/off-road-tires.aspx


Here's another website, linked below, where you'll find these lines...
_"*Bias ply* off road tires provide unmatched performance in extreme off road situations, such as rough trails, deep mud, and jagged rocks. The tread is designed to self-clean and release mud or foreign objects much easier to assist in maintaining traction and the rubber compounds are softer to produce better grip. Additionally, the tire sidewalls are typically reinforced to prevent damage."_
And...
_"While radial truck tires *may not* provide the same traction or performance as a set of low air pressure *bias ply* off road tires, their longevity, handling, and smooth ride on paved roads makes up for it. Radials are perfect for the weekend off road enthusiasts who sees a lot of driving time on paved roads and highways."_
_
http://www.tirepackage.com/off-road/off-road-tires.aspx_


And here's one more that states...
_"For enthusiasts looking for ultimate in off-road performance (we are talking serious off-roading and deep mud), *bias tires* are still the best choice."_
_
http://southernsxsriders.forumakers.com/t7919-bias-vs-radial-tires_


And if that ain't enough for ya' I can come up with dozens and dozens more.
*


----------



## phil21502 (Jan 15, 2014)

Let's see some pics of the old school traction tires


----------



## Guswhit (Jan 15, 2014)

Go Spider go!!!!!!!!


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> *whitespider just wondering what youre comparing those bias ply to? as bias vs. radial is just a difference in the construction of the carcass, NOT the tread...*



"Tread" is overrated... it is about the construction, and how it uses the tread.
Bias ply tires get most all traction from side-bite... when the sidewalls flex the center tread lefts away from the surface and drives the side lugs in harder.
Traction-lug bias ply are also self-cleaning... you will never see the lugs load-up like radials do, even in the stickiest mud they'll be totally clean. Those side lugs force mud or snow out and away, they won't ride up on top of snow and mud like a radial, they cut through it and grab any little bit of traction. If you "spin" your traction-lug bias ply tires, or even "slip" them... ya' flat ain't drivin' 'em right. It's a different style of driving off-road... with radials you're often counting on speed and momentum to carry you through the worst, with bias ply ya' slow down as the goin' gets tougher so the tires can do the work.
And the chances of sidewall damage are near zero when compared to radials... first, because they don't bulge out, and second, because they're normally reinforced.
*


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

phil21502 said:


> *Let's see some pics of the old school traction tires*



Well, last year's "bias ply" thread had some good pictures of 'em on my truck, and in action... sadly they were lost when this website got hacked.
This weekend, when I'm home during daylight I'll try and get some more...
Anyway, this is what I'm running now, but they ain't being made anymore... Cooper Courser Traction LT.


----------



## naturelover (Jan 15, 2014)

Are those bias ply?


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

I'll put a set of bfg a/t or m/t up against that tire anytime or anywhere.


----------



## cmsmoke (Jan 15, 2014)

I was a heavy equipment operator for 28 years. I hauled a lot of material in off road dump trucks too. I've seen many bias ply tires that looked like racing slicks when introduced to mud. That includes the old traction lug tires.


----------



## kodiak (Jan 15, 2014)

The OP asked about snowy road traction. Seems most on-road incidents are as a result of icy roads. For the ice, I'll stick with my radials thank you.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

naturelover said:


> *Are those bias ply?*


Yes... 7.00-15 Bias Ply.
What did you think they were??



Patrick62 said:


> *I'll put a set of bfg a/t or m/t up against that tire anytime or anywhere.*


And I'll be tippin' a beer and smilin' as I drive around your wheel-spinnin' azz.
I've got a couple sets of radial A/T and M/T tires for my truck... yeah, big fat ones... they're my mid-summer, dry ground and street tires.



cmsmoke said:


> *I was a heavy equipment operator for 28 years. I hauled a lot of material in off road dump trucks too. I've seen many bias ply tires that looked like racing slicks when introduced to mud. That includes the old traction lug tires.*


Then you ain't talkin' the same tires I am, mine have never loaded-up... *ever‼*
Heavy truck, heavy equipment and transport tires ain't the same.



kodiak said:


> *The OP asked about snowy road traction. Seems most on-road incidents are as a result of icy roads. For the ice, I'll stick with my radials thank you.*


I believe he was more worried about getting from point A to point B in deep snow... not about sliddin' off an icy road.
*


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

opcorn:


----------



## dave_dj1 (Jan 15, 2014)

36" x 13.5" x 15" Super swamper IROK radials, enough said!



Same ledge, 35" x 14.5" x 15" Pitt bull rockers bias ply, enough said!



first Jeep was mine, second is my nephews, both 4.88 gears with front and rear lockers, we wheel a lot together. 
I think they both perform equally well. 
On the road though I prefer radials hands down. those bias ply take about 5 miles to warm up enough to remove the flat spots


----------



## theswampthing (Jan 15, 2014)

Flat bottom tires on a cold morning, brings back memories.


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

phil21502 said:


> Have seen a couple posts on here about peeps bragging the bias traction tires. Anyone kno where u can still buy them? Also how do u think they would do on snowy roads? And lastly let's see some pics.



Had BFG A/T on a toyota. Virtually unstoppable. Pushed snow with front bumper. Excellent manors on slick icy roads. wheeled over 24" rocks on Williams pass with no problems at all. I have also had them on a K10 chevy, worked real nice on that as well.


----------



## cmsmoke (Jan 15, 2014)

Excuse me, I thought we were talking about bias ply tires. The trucks had 9.00-20 traction lug tires. They may have been a little bigger, which gives even better traction, but in fact they were what you refer to. What makes yours so special? Maybe you haven't been in mud around here.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

cmsmoke said:


> *Excuse me, I thought we were talking about bias ply tires. The trucks had 9.00-20 traction lug tires.*


Well you can think they're the same in ya' like... but they ain't.
20-inch bias ply traction lug medium and medium/heavy truck tires are constructed differently than light truck off-road tires. The have more plys, are heavier, stiffer, run at higher pressures, made of harder compounds, both the carcass and "lug" configuration is totally different... they are designed for carrying heavy loads and must be able to do so at road speed. Comparing medium and medium/heavy truck tires to what I'm talkin' about is like comparing tractor tires to car tires... they're designed to do two very different things.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

I found a couple pictures from last year... they ain't the best... but it's all I got.
Notice the "clean" lugs and no sign of wheel slippage in the ruts. Also notice the tires do not ride up on top of the snow, rather they cut through and stay on solid ground... even though this was drifted snow, not powder.

Oh (you'll haft'a trust me)... the front hubs are in "free" position... I didn't bother to use the 4-wheel drive.


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

pizza cutters. 

if'n it workin' for ya.... I am happy for ya.

Toss that thing onto a sheet of black ice and play a round of hockey. Meanwhile I could sputter away from ya with my mothers Metro....


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

Pizza cutters maybe... but I wouldn't run wide, fat tires in snow or mud on a bet... been there, tried that.
I want 'em to cut just like a pizza cutter, all the way down to solid ground (where the real traction is).

Oh... and on ice... one tire ain't no better than another.
*


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 15, 2014)

Yup 2 wheel,4wheel,or 6 wheel it don't matter on ice you're screwed


Sent from my Autotune Carb


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

Here it is with it's fair-weather shoes (yeah, radial A/Ts)... and a bit less rust.
These Iowa crushed limestone roads and winter salt is hell on sheet metal... my truck only has 68,000 on it and the body is rusting fast.


----------



## blades (Jan 15, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Pizza cutters maybe... but I wouldn't run wide, fat tires in snow or mud on a bet... been there, tried that.
> I want 'em to cut just like a pizza cutter, all the way down to solid ground (where the real traction is).
> 
> Oh... and on ice... one tire ain't no better than another.
> *


Not true, the units molded with various materials such as carbide chips, crushed glass, crushed Walnut shells, & others are quite superior on ice. It is true that wide tires either type and snow are poor combination, don't care what kind of side lugs or tread pattern, tall and skinny, with a lot siping and an open pattern tread, is what we use to push snow with, cuts through as some else mention rather than floating on top. Rock climbing off roading mudding whole different class of requirements. Had a friend with a first gen. blazer, jacked up and big mudder tires, frigging impossible to drive on the street, like riding on 4 balloons, disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Pizza cutters maybe... but I wouldn't run wide, fat tires in snow or mud on a bet... been there, tried that.
> I want 'em to cut just like a pizza cutter, all the way down to solid ground (where the real traction is).
> 
> Oh... and on ice... one tire ain't no better than another.
> *



Two theory's on mud. if'n you can find the bottom then that is dandy... if you can't, then what?

I'll put $10 on a pontiac with 721 radials against that pickup on a drag race on a frozen lake... sure you can use 4wheel... The ol' pontiac has a limited slip in it...


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

opcorn:


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

Patrick62 said:


> *I'll put $10 on a pontiac with 721 radials against that pickup on a drag race on a frozen lake... sure you can use 4wheel... The ol' pontiac has a limited slip in it...*



What makes you think the pickup don't?
That one there is a 1994, has the 351W, heavy towing package and was modified in our shop at the dealership for the original owner... limited slip front and rear. Yup, it throws four rooster tails...
He used it for pullin' a camper and horse trailer and didn't wanna' get stuck... in 2000 (maybe it was 2001) he traded it in with 46,000 miles I snatched it up.
Your ol' Pontiac better have studded tires... might even need chains...
*


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 15, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Pizza cutters maybe... but I wouldn't run wide, fat tires in snow or mud on a bet... been there, tried that.
> I want 'em to cut just like a pizza cutter, all the way down to solid ground (where the real traction is).
> 
> Oh... and on ice... one tire ain't no better than another.
> *




Agree with ya 100%. Narrow tires is what you want in the snow for sure---ice is ice! But is the truck a stick?? Wish the truck still looked like the 2nd pic--good looking truck! I understand the rust--I hate rust!


----------



## fastLeo151 (Jan 15, 2014)

White, 
We all know that it doesn't matter what tires are on that truck, it won't get stuck its a fordford


Yup I went there


----------



## naturelover (Jan 15, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Yes... 7.00-15 Bias Ply.
> What did you think they were??





Yea, see it now on my computer.

Don't look very aggressive.... 

There are roads near me that I'd really like to travel on in the winter, but we're talking snow several feet deep at times. I've been thinking of either tracks for the ATV or a snowmobile, but don't really have anyone to go with me, and me too skeered to be out there myself I think. You get stuck or break something up there, probably ain't coming out till spring..


----------



## zogger (Jan 15, 2014)

I ain't bias against no tires. On my ratsun, I run the fi'teen inch leftovers from my boss's ranger on the rear, and the fo'teen inch leftovers from my GFs olds on the front...I have a nice supply squirreled away....

..they kinda sorta hold air and have visible tread brand....point A to B

offroad, you nuts? That's what tractors are for...I ain't taking no wussy azzed truck into the woods to do a tractor job, no way.....tractor got deep lug ag tires on it, like gawd intended

see, no bias against tires!


----------



## stickthrower (Jan 15, 2014)




----------



## stickthrower (Jan 15, 2014)

A lot of feed trucks used to run these in Kansas......when you are stuck, well.....your pretty stuck.
COOP Grip Spur


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> *...is the truck a stick?? Wish the truck still looked like the 2nd pic--good looking truck! I understand the rust--I hate rust!*



E4OD
Yeah. rust sucks‼


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 15, 2014)

Yeah... I know those Co-op Grip Spur bias tires... damn hard to find now-a-days, but they were one hell-of-a traction tire.
*


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 15, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Pizza cutters maybe... but I wouldn't run wide, fat tires in snow or mud on a bet... been there, tried that.
> I want 'em to cut just like a pizza cutter, all the way down to solid ground (where the real traction is).
> 
> Oh... and on ice... one tire ain't no better than another.
> *


 heres something for ya 
those are 44's on a 15x16 rim, this is in iceland and is the norm for trucks... i actually know the son of the owner at Arctic Trucks in Icland who are the pioneers of these types of trucks, id like to see youre narrow tires (at a comparable height of course) go the places these these can go.


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Nathan 
I had read about those trucks in a four wheeler write up once. Amazing... Floatation and power. And that bar on the front is vital. You are driving on 300 feet of ice covered in snow.

Yep. My old Pontiac would not win against a Ford. Sure was fun tho taking 10 mph hairpins at 30 on ice.... Darn radials hung onto the road like glue. Of coarse the car helped by being low, wide. did that every day. And when snowing like crazy I would lead the pack across Hoosier pass (look it up) with 100W amber fog lights in a blizzard.


----------



## cmsmoke (Jan 15, 2014)

Everyone knows Iowa has worse conditions than Iceland! Come on you know you will have to do better than that!


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 15, 2014)

Hang a winch on that Ford and head to California. The mud in the "Tank Trap" might be a tad deeper than expected in Iowa.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/top-truck-challenge/


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 16, 2014)

Would love to see 750 15" or 16" bias bring loads out, that honey wagon has 10.00x 20's on it, the bottom is hard, but its a long ways down!


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 16, 2014)

Y'all go easy on Spidey. Besides radial tires and EPA stoves, he's still bitter about losing the pull tabs on his Budweisers, and the fact that it's impossible to find corduroy jeans anymore. Makes for a crabby guy, I tell ya.

He'll be along to refute this just as soon as he can get that TRS-80 of his rebooted, and the 8" floppy drive's been acting up a little lately.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> *Y'all go easy on Spidey. ...he's still bitter about losing the pull tabs on his Budweisers...*



Now that one really did pizz-me-off‼
I really hate those "new-fangled" pop-tops.

Speaking of that... so now Miller Lite has a "Punch Top Can"??
Never figured I'd see a beer can come ready-configured for "Shotgun-Beer Races"... L-O-L
*


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

I couldn't help myself but to do a little research on this. My conclusion ended up being that if I was rock climbing or strictly offroad 4 wheeling with a vehicle that I trailered to the trails then bias would likely be my choice. For any other vehicle I'll stick with radials.
The bias tires that I remember from MANY eons ago were bouncy, caught every groove in the road and rode like crap.
As for the self cleaning capabilities what I read pretty much boils down to tread design. Bias vs radial didn't seem to factor in to this.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Nothin' like puttin' all the BS to rest AIM,
You're 100% correct... if your truck spends a lot of time on dry paved roads the bias ply would not be the best choice. Really, my truck probably spends over 90% of its time off-road or on snow-covered roads during most of the year. Your post is exactly the reason I have "summer" radial tires on aluminum rims so I can easily swap them after the spring mud dries up, and again before fall/winter weather. Actually, my truck often sits for weeks without being driven... and then it's for off-road use or getting to town in a snowstorm. Once in a while it's used for haulin' a piece of furniture, a trip to the lumber yard, or some such. My wife has her own driver (van), and my place of work provides me with one... the pickup and car are just "extras".

The stigma attached to bias ply (bouncy, caught every groove in the road and rode like crap... don't forget noisy) isn't near what it was back-in-the-day... mostly because bias ply have become more "special purpose" rather than the "standard"... but, no argument, they don't ride and drive like radials on the road. The self cleaning lug design may be possible with radials designed strictly for off-road use, but I've never seen a radial A/T type tire that could make it work... most M/T type only work half-azz.
For example...


----------



## greendohn (Jan 16, 2014)

I LOVE BACON!! 
Look at all the old Army Jeeps and deuce and a halfs,,"pizza cutters". Ya' gotta' find the bottom to hook up, in most circumstances. 
Did I mention how much I like Bacon?


----------



## A.S.Woodchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

probably running nitrogen instead compressed air makes all the difference! J/K what a waste of money!


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Nothin' like puttin' all the BS to rest AIM,
> You're 100% correct... if your truck spends a lot of time on dry paved roads the bias ply would not be the best choice. Really, my truck probably spends over 90% of its time off-road or on snow-covered roads during most of the year. Your post is exactly the reason I have "summer" radial tires on aluminum rims so I can easily swap them after the spring mud dries up, and again before fall/winter weather. Actually, my truck often sits for weeks without being driven... and then it's for off-road use or getting to town in a snowstorm. Once in a while it's used for haulin' a piece of furniture, a trip to the lumber yard, or some such. My wife has her own driver (van), and my place of work provides me with one... the pickup and car are just "extras".
> 
> The stigma attached to bias ply (bouncy, caught every groove in the road and rode like crap... don't forget noisy) isn't near what it was back-in-the-day... mostly because bias ply have become more "special purpose" rather than the "standard"... but, no argument, they don't ride and drive like radials on the road. The self cleaning lug design may be possible with radials designed strictly for off-road use, but I've never seen a radial A/T type tire that could make it work... most M/T type only work half-azz.
> For example...


 just so ya know them aint radials...
this was for narrow vs. wide tires.


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Nothin' like puttin' all the BS to rest AIM,
> You're 100% correct... if your truck spends a lot of time on dry paved roads the bias ply would not be the best choice. Really, my truck probably spends over 90% of its time off-road or on snow-covered roads during most of the year. Your post is exactly the reason I have "summer" radial tires on aluminum rims so I can easily swap them after the spring mud dries up, and again before fall/winter weather. Actually, my truck often sits for weeks without being driven... and then it's for off-road use or getting to town in a snowstorm. Once in a while it's used for haulin' a piece of furniture, a trip to the lumber yard, or some such. My wife has her own driver (van), and my place of work provides me with one... the pickup and car are just "extras".
> 
> The stigma attached to bias ply (bouncy, caught every groove in the road and rode like crap... don't forget noisy) isn't near what it was back-in-the-day... mostly because bias ply have become more "special purpose" rather than the "standard"... but, no argument, they don't ride and drive like radials on the road. The self cleaning lug design may be possible with radials designed strictly for off-road use, but I've never seen a radial A/T type tire that could make it work... most M/T type only work half-azz.
> For example...


Spidey, I will agree on bias being better on trailers though, when I built my flatbed I put the radial tires we installed on everything we built on it. A few miles down the road there is a set of s curves that will cause significant pucker factor when the trailer loaded with 5 ton starts walking over the tires at 50-60 mph. I switched to bias ply tires and problem solved. Now if the bias tire didn't get flat spots after sitting for a few days, that would shake the balls of a brass monkey for the first few miles I would be golden.


----------



## 4seasons (Jan 16, 2014)

I can't believe people are still having this argument about wide vs narrow tires. This has been around since the invention of 4 wheel drive. Let me sum this up clearly. A narrow tire works best if the snow/mud is not very deep and the vehicle is heavy enough to push to the hard surface under the slop. But if the mud/snow is deep enough or your truck isn't heavy enough to reach the bottom you are stuck. A wide tire is much easier to hydroplane. If the mud/snow is just too deep to reach bottom and your truck is light enough to stay afloat you can drive like a snowmobile by gliding over the surface and never digging in. This is the only way to get somewhere when the snow is measured in feet rather than inches. But how often do any of us really see that kind of driving? Most of our roads are plowed and we only have to deal with the most recent fallen snow to get where we have to go. Wide tires are for our toys that we use to play in the deep mud. You can not get better traction with a wider tire in sloppy conditions. The wider tire may very well keep you up on top of the snow where it is easier to spin and harder to control but don't confuse floatation with traction.

Now as for bias ply vs radial, it has already been said that radial is better on the road and bias ply is better off road. The real question becomes when does snow on the road become off-roading? I think you have to decide what exactly off-roading is. To me off-roading is when you no longer have enough traction to keep all 4 tires engaged to the road you have crossed into an off road situation in which your driving must be adjusted to maintain the maximum traction and giving you the best control. So if you have a truck that you only drive off road or when the weather is bad, by all means set it up with bias ply tires in a tread pattern that suits your environment best. Or if you can buy a second set of tires and wheels and only put them on when the need arises again the bias ply would be a good choice. But if you only have one truck and you drive it everywhere all the time the bias ply is probably not for you.

One other option that has only been briefly mentioned. If you are driving in ice no tire will have ample traction. Some tread patterns might be able to slightly crack the ice enough to bite the edge of the crack but if the ice is bad enough there is only one way to go. Chains will break the ice and leave a ridge to give you traction. Studded tires will only poke a small hole in the ice where a chain or cable will make a line of traction. Of course you have to have the tire clearance to run them any you are limited to a slow pace, and you will wear them out in a hurry (as well as jar you teeth loose) on dry pavement so they may not work best in every situation but they are cheaper than a second set of snow tires and rims and you can carry them all winter long until you need them. There are even style that can be put on once you are already stuck to help you get out of a jam. In my opinion they are the best option for both worlds. They provide the best traction when on, and no drawback when off.


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 16, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Not being made anymore? That's because you are the only one who will buy them. Lol. When we discuss rock crawling, we are referring to letting almost all the air out of them bias ply tires to get a grip. "Nerfing," or turning the tires into nerf is what we call it. It give the tire more surface area. This discussion is retarded.
> 
> opcorn:


think im going to start a chevy vs. ford thread since i like where this one is going...
really though you cant compare a bias ply tire with a certain tread to a radial with a COMPLETLY DIFFERENT tread and expect the same results


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 16, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> think im going to start a chevy vs. ford thread since i like where this one is going...
> really though you can compare a bias ply tire with a certain tread to a radial with a COMPLETLY DIFFERENT tread and expect the same results


That is true, The only tires I have seen where the tread was the same is on tractors and the radials are better in that off road environment too, they are just stupid expensive.


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 16, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Why would you go to town in a snowstorm.


Somebody has to pull all the prius's out so they can get the roads plowed!


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> *When we discuss rock crawling, we are referring to letting almost all the air out of them bias ply tires to get a grip.*



I know that... I wasn't comparing my tires to those used for rock climbing... but I do run them around 15-20 lbs for off-road use. I was simply responding to a "_radials are _(always)_ better off-road_" post.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> *Why would you go to town in a snowstorm.*



Well... to get necessities of course... like, beer and pretzels for the football game 
Hey man, we drive in snowstorms 'round here... businesses don't close for snow, ya' still haf'ta get to work, your dentist appointment, tax appointment, auto service appointment, check in on the mother-in-law, etc. and whatnot.
If'n ya' don't get there, it may be weeks, maybe months before you can get another appointment.
Heck, even when they start closing roads the businesses stay open... life goes on.
*


----------



## Preston (Jan 16, 2014)

4seasons said:


> I can't believe people are still having this argument about wide vs narrow tires. This has been around since the invention of 4 wheel drive. Let me sum this up clearly. A narrow tire works best if the snow/mud is not very deep and the vehicle is heavy enough to push to the hard surface under the slop. But if the mud/snow is deep enough or your truck isn't heavy enough to reach the bottom you are stuck. A wide tire is much easier to hydroplane. If the mud/snow is just too deep to reach bottom and your truck is light enough to stay afloat you can drive like a snowmobile by gliding over the surface and never digging in. This is the only way to get somewhere when the snow is measured in feet rather than inches. But how often do any of us really see that kind of driving? Most of our roads are plowed and we only have to deal with the most recent fallen snow to get where we have to go. Wide tires are for our toys that we use to play in the deep mud. You can not get better traction with a wider tire in sloppy conditions. The wider tire may very well keep you up on top of the snow where it is easier to spin and harder to control but don't confuse floatation with traction.
> 
> Now as for bias ply vs radial, it has already been said that radial is better on the road and bias ply is better off road. The real question becomes when does snow on the road become off-roading? I think you have to decide what exactly off-roading is. To me off-roading is when you no longer have enough traction to keep all 4 tires engaged to the road you have crossed into an off road situation in which your driving must be adjusted to maintain the maximum traction and giving you the best control. So if you have a truck that you only drive off road or when the weather is bad, by all means set it up with bias ply tires in a tread pattern that suits your environment best. Or if you can buy a second set of tires and wheels and only put them on when the need arises again the bias ply would be a good choice. But if you only have one truck and you drive it everywhere all the time the bias ply is probably not for you.
> 
> One other option that has only been briefly mentioned. If you are driving in ice no tire will have ample traction. Some tread patterns might be able to slightly crack the ice enough to bite the edge of the crack but if the ice is bad enough there is only one way to go. Chains will break the ice and leave a ridge to give you traction. Studded tires will only poke a small hole in the ice where a chain or cable will make a line of traction. Of course you have to have the tire clearance to run them any you are limited to a slow pace, and you will wear them out in a hurry (as well as jar you teeth loose) on dry pavement so they may not work best in every situation but they are cheaper than a second set of snow tires and rims and you can carry them all winter long until you need them. There are even style that can be put on once you are already stuck to help you get out of a jam. In my opinion they are the best option for both worlds. They provide the best traction when on, and no drawback when off.



Why not. Folks are still folks. It only takes two to get it started and anyway, nobody hardly ever changes their minds, on anything. Plus, a regurgitated subject ain't that bad.


----------



## zogger (Jan 16, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> heres something for ya View attachment 328006
> those are 44's on a 15x16 rim, this is in iceland and is the norm for trucks... i actually know the son of the owner at Arctic Trucks in Icland who are the pioneers of these types of trucks, id like to see youre narrow tires (at a comparable height of course) go the places these these can go.




I saw videos of these before, here is one...yep decent snow rides for sure


----------



## Guswhit (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Well... to get necessities of course... like, beer and pretzels for the football game
> Hey man, we drive in snowstorms 'round here... businesses don't close for snow, ya' still haf'ta get to work, your dentist appointment, tax appointment, auto service appointment, check in on the mother-in-law, etc. and whatnot.
> If'n ya' don't get there, it may be weeks, maybe months before you can get another appointment.
> Heck, even when they start closing roads the businesses stay open... life goes on.
> *


Spidey, you forgot to mention helping people out. Small towns are great!
I get called by the local road commissioner every other storm it seems to weld something else up for them, or to go get the grader out and pull there trucks out of the ditch, they know I'm around.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 16, 2014)

les-or-more said:


> That is true, The only tires I have seen where the tread was the same is on tractors and the radials are better in that off road environment too, they are just stupid expensive.



Stupid expensive, yes. But they still pay for themselves by getting more work done with less fuel - Spidey, that's done because the tractor slips LESS, and more of it's power is used to actually do it's job. Man, that argument sounds vaguely familiar.

I might also mention that the US military, which spends a fair amount of time off road, ditched bias tires back in the 90s.

Spidey, did you notice them Miller Lite cans come with a new paint job now? Straight outta back in the day, look just like they did back when **** Butkus and Bubba Smith were arguing about Tastes Great - Less Filling. Yet another argument that no one ever won.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeah Guswhit,
"Round here, near every small town boy with a 4-wheel drive carries a recovery strap... mine is 30 feet long, lost count of how many it's pulled out'a the ditch and snow.
*


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

I did also read that for some reason bias ply construction allows them to make a larger more open tread design than is possible with a radial. (I didn't really understand why though)

As for the digging in versus staying on top. MY OWN OPINION,,,, is that I would rather stay on top. I am fairly confidant that I would get stuck fewer times with large wide tires than narrow ones. Yes i get the idea behind digging in but generally when I get stuck I am down to the axles and hard ground is still a foot down.


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

I have 2 30' straps tied together and have found it to be alot better most of the time vs a single 30'. You guys should try it sometime. I think you'll be like me and find it to be alot handier with 60'.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> *Spidey, that's done because the tractor slips LESS, and more of it's power is used to actually do it's job.*



Yeah, tractors have their place and time... but, most ain't got a good place for a beer cooler 




AIM said:


> *...I would rather stay on top. I am fairly confidant that I would get stuck fewer times with large wide tires... ...when I get stuck I am down to the axles and hard ground is still a foot down.*



That's 'cause you're runnin' those wide-azz radials 
*


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Well... the longer those straps are, the more "snatch" power (rubber band effect) ya' have.
I actually have/carry a second one (band new, still in package) 'cause ya just never know when one will break.
*


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Yeah, tractors have their place and time... but, most ain't got a good place for a beer cooler



See, there you go with the blanket statements again. Lots of new tractors can be had with a built in mini fridge.

60' of strap is a good way to drag a car along the steep ditches we have up here, and just bounce em off fenceposts, trees, and whatever else is down there. My 30' is often doubled up to get a better pull angle and get a ditched car back on the road.


----------



## Pelorus (Jan 16, 2014)

Bias ply?


----------



## cre10 (Jan 16, 2014)

Some of you guys are crazy. Bias gives you a lot more traction whether it be on a truck or tractor. We bought a tractor with radials on it and we couldn't wait to burn the tread off them so we could buy replacement bias ply rears. With the radials it was about as worthless as tits on a boar.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 16, 2014)

cre10 said:


> Some of you guys are crazy. Bias gives you a lot more traction whether it be on a truck or tractor. We bought a tractor with radials on it and we couldn't wait to burn the tread off them so we could buy replacement bias ply rears. With the radials it was about as worthless as tits on a boar.



I'll bet you were running them at max inflation like you would a bias tire, either that or they were those worthless DT710s...


----------



## cre10 (Jan 16, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> I'll bet you were running them at max inflation like you would a bias tire, either that or they were those worthless DT710s...


You would bet wrong.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 16, 2014)

You should try steel wheels then. You'll like them even better than bias.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

cre10 said:


> *We bought a tractor with radials on it... With the radials it was about as worthless as tits on a boar.*



I've been told that more than a few times by farmers... they friggin' hate 'em.
But I wasn't gonna' bring those stories up... we were talking light truck tires, not ag equipment tires.
Actually, most of the guys run bias ply on the pickups they use in the fields and crushed limestone roads, radials on their "Sunday morning, go-to-town" pickups.
Back before I knew better I'd get stuck out hunting in their fields. Because I know most of 'em personally I could walk in to the farm yard and ask for help... more times than not they'd pull me out with their field trucks wearing skinny tires rather than fire-up a tractor. The second time I had to ask one, he spit a big wad of tobacco juice out, looked at me sort'a irritated like, and told me to get rid of those worthless F'ing, wide-azz radials on my truck. So I walked over and took a good look at what they were runnin', ain't never went back to radials for mud and snow and ain't never been stuck since (shrug).


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 16, 2014)

Who needs tires?







Sent from my Autotune Carb


----------



## CTYank (Jan 16, 2014)

And ... some folks will tell you that vinyl recordings sound better than cds. In spite of their hearing deficiencies, or because of.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

CTYank said:


> *And ... some folks will tell you that vinyl recordings sound better than cds. In spite of their hearing deficiencies, or because of.*



Vinyl recordings do sound better than CD's, the sound is richer, fuller and warmer... and they're making a comeback.
Digital music tends to bite the ear, rather than caress it... believe me, I own hundreds of both.
While sales of CD's fell in 2013, vinyl sales were up 33%.
Here ya' go, read all about it.

http://www.voanews.com/content/vinyl-records-making-a-comeback/1757080.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/arts/music/vinyl-records-are-making-a-comeback.html?_r=0
*


----------



## kodiak (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> While sales of CD's fell in 2013, vinyl sales were up 33%.
> *


A more complete comparison would also include the numbers for digital music that is downloaded.


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> and told me to get rid of those worthless F'ing, wide-azz radials on my truck. So I walked over and took a good look at what they were runnin', ain't never went back to radials for mud and snow and ain't never been stuck since (shrug).



Well I gotta say that you must not go some of the places I have found myself in. When your sittin on your axles i don't care what your runnin for tires. YOUR STUCK! 
I get stuck a few times every year while out cutting wood. Pull in the woods while a good layer of frost is still in the ground and by the time your done the frost has left and you've added another 2000 .lbs to your truck you hit a soft spot and "plop" you just sunk. Seems like I do this at least twice a year. Bias plys wouldn't help a lick. This is where I "THINK" big wide tires might help me stay on top and not sink to my ass. Take note I said "THINK". I've never owned big swampers before so I really don't know.


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 16, 2014)

AIM said:


> Well I gotta say that you must not go some of the places I have found myself in. When your sittin on your axles i don't care what your runnin for tires. YOUR STUCK!
> I get stuck a few times every year while out cutting wood. Pull in the woods while a good layer of frost is still in the ground and by the time your done the frost has left and you've added another 2000 .lbs to your truck you hit a soft spot and "plop" you just sunk. Seems like I do this at least twice a year. Bias plys wouldn't help a lick. This is where I "THINK" big wide tires might help me stay on top and not sink to my ass. Take note I said "THINK". I've never owned big swampers before so I really don't know.


I have found the bigger and better the tires the deeper the hole is that I get stuck in and anyone who tells me they never get stuck is telling me they never leave the highway.


----------



## philoshop (Jan 16, 2014)

If there's no bottom to what you're trying to drive on, you better have wide tires. If there's something underneath to get a bite on, goin' *slow* with skinny tires will get you there.

I had a Jeep j10 pickup a few years ago, okay 35 years ago, and it wore skinny heavy-lug bias-ply. Chains all around if it got really bad, but there was nothing it wouldn't work through if I was paying attention. High-centered it in a couple of swamps, (no bottom), but it would bore *tunnels* through snow drifts as long as I went slow and kept the wheels on the bottom.

Pretty sporty ride on dry pavement though. Had a couple of head-dents in the roof and very little sheet metal left on it when I finally sold it to a logger to use as a tractor. Bias-plies were included.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

AIM,
I explained earlier that you drive narrow bias ply differently... slow and easy, keeping them on solid footing all the time. They "dig" in fast, and if ya' let them get up on top, they'll "dig" and leave your axles laying on top, wheels in mid air faster than ya' can blink. They ain't designed nor intended to ride over the top like radials, or even those wide Super Swamper type bias ply. When a wheel starts to slip a bit, the worst thing you can do is give it more power, or even keep going... stop, back up, and start forward again, slow and easy. Let the tires work so the axles, bumper and whatnot push stuff out'a the way instead of pushing the truck up over the top. If ya' get up on top and "dig"' in you're screwed, ya' can't even back out; and ya' should always be able to back out... always. Really, in deep snow or mud I use the low side of the transfer case a lot, it gives me a better feel for the wheels and a bit more control over them (but mine has an auto transmission).

With that said... I don't use my pickup to haul firewood. I can see where driving in on soft ground, then adding a ton of weight, and then trying to drive back out could make for a surprise or two. Still, I'd take traction over flotation anyday. Using flotation you're likely to slip sideways into a tree, take out the box side, and get stuck against the tree. Using traction you might get stuck, but ya' ain't gonna' slide sideways into anything... you'll just be stuck.




philoshop said:


> *I had a Jeep j10 pickup... it wore skinny heavy-lug bias-ply.it would bore tunnels through snow drifts as long as I went slow and kept the wheels on the bottom.*



L-O-L
That's a good way to describe it... *tunnels‼*
Most guys will have doubts until ya' take 'em for a ride... or drive around 'em while they're sittin' on their differentials, wheels hangin' in mid-air.
You're correct though, there is a limit to how deep mud can be... but snow, just bore a *tunnel‼ L-O-L*
*


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

Well I spose there is simply a geological difference in our terrains. When it's soft and muddy the bottom is usually deeper than your tires are gonna bite. Spidey mentioned limestone. We have what we call river rock. No limestone here. The snow gets deep, the ground under it gets soft and SLICK as hell. You dig through the snow into the mud (even a thin layer of mud) it's so slick you aint movin. Might as well be on ice. Most times though you just sink to your ass.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

AIM said:


> *Well I spose there is simply a geological difference in our terrains.*



Naw, that ain't it at all... my tires will drag the axles right through the mud and muck as long as ya run slow and easy and don't push the axle up over the top. Just like philoshop posted above, YA' HAF'TA RUN SLOW ENOUGH TO KEEP THE TIRES ON THE BOTTOM, and ya' haf'ta pay attention, ya' haf'ta "feel" what those tires are doing (I'm talkin' sometimes it's down to a crawl, and you're backin' up more than you're goin' forward). We get the same greazed-owl-crap here...so greasy and mucky it loads up on your boots and tires several inches thick (not my tires though) and will run as deep as last winter's frost.

It's a totally different style of driving than what you're used to.
Like I said above...
*"Most guys will have doubts until ya' take 'em for a ride... or drive around 'em while they're sittin' on their differentials, wheels hangin' in mid-air."*
*


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 16, 2014)

opcorn:opcorn:

That must be a TRS-80 Model II to have 8" floppy's
It sits right next to that amplifier with tubes in it connected to that there elec miracord turntable with that fancy tone arm on it. Bose 501's ?

This is turning into quite a whiz contest.


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Naw, that ain't it at all... my tires will drag the axles right through the mud and muck as long as ya run slow and easy and don't push the axle up over the top. Just like philoshop posted above, YA' HAF'TA RUN SLOW ENOUGH TO KEEP THE TIRES ON THE BOTTOM, and ya' haf'ta pay attention, ya' haf'ta "feel" what those tires are doing (I'm talkin' sometimes it's down to a crawl, and you're backin' up more than you're goin' forward). We get the same greazed-owl-crap here...so greasy and mucky it loads up on your boots and tires several inches thick (not my tires though) and will run as deep as last winter's frost.
> 
> It's a totally different style of driving than what you're used to.
> Like I said above...
> ...


Well at this point I'm just gonna call ********. Bias vs radial doesn't cut it. TREAD DESIGN and WIDTH is what makes the diff. An open tread will crawl through better and self clean better than a less than open tread but if the BOTTOM is out of reach your just screwed wether your running bias or radials.

And by the way.. If your backin up more than your going forward your gonna end up where you started instead of where your going...


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Naw, that ain't it at all... my tires will drag the axles right through the mud and muck as long as ya run slow and easy and don't push the axle up over the top. Just like philoshop posted above, YA' HAF'TA RUN SLOW ENOUGH TO KEEP THE TIRES ON THE BOTTOM, and ya' haf'ta pay attention, ya' haf'ta "feel" what those tires are doing (I'm talkin' sometimes it's down to a crawl, and you're backin' up more than you're goin' forward). We get the same greazed-owl-crap here...so greasy and mucky it loads up on your boots and tires several inches thick (not my tires though) and will run as deep as last winter's frost.
> 
> It's a totally different style of driving than what you're used to.
> Like I said above...
> ...


 well how about some pics when mud season rolls around?, then you can prove everyone wrong, no washing the mud off them tires either...
got one question though, if youre going so slow and not even slipping at all, how in the hell are you on the bottom? not sure if you realize this or not but bias ply tires ride on top of just as much mud /snow per square inch of tread as a radial or wide tire, unless of course youre bias ply's vaporize anything that touches the tread... yup that must be it.
now im not saying one is better than the other, i just revert back to my original question to you that you never answered on the first page of this thread, "what are you comparing these bias ply tires to" you cant compare youre tread to ANY bias or radial tread just because its classified for the same use like A/T or M/T or any other, the only way you can do a real comparison is with a bias ply and a radial with the SAME tread, SAME truck, etc. ALL conditions must be the same.

i await your obvious answeropcorn:


----------



## wareagle5.0 (Jan 16, 2014)

geeze, i cant believe i read this whole thread and still dont have a clue which tire is better.


----------



## AIM (Jan 16, 2014)

wareagle5.0 said:


> geeze, i cant believe i read this whole thread and still dont have a clue which tire is better.



Because each tire is better for CERTAIN applications. In my OPINION radials are just an overall better tire. My opinion is 90% radials and 10% bias.


----------



## 4seasons (Jan 16, 2014)

wareagle5.0 said:


> geeze, i cant believe i read this whole thread and still dont have a clue which tire is better.


Then you need to read again. Several post here have pointed out that bias ply is for off road and radial is for on road. Obviously tread design plays a role but the real compromise is narrow vs wide for digging to the bottom or floating on top.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

"Tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated...

We ain't talking those big, fat, wide , "swamper" type tires that guys stick on their 4×4 toys... we're talkin' tires for workin' trucks. If ya' go back and look at the tires I'm running, the "tread" is nothing more than a couple squiggly lines through the center... intended to give water a place to go so ya' don't hydroplane on the road. When under load or pullin' hard, causing the sidewalls of those types of bias tires to flex, it pulls the center "tread" away from the surface and forces the outer "lugs" down into the surface, that's how they get traction. When not under load, and up to road pressures, those side lugs don't even make contact with with a hard, smooth surface like pavement (or only lightly do). That's why you lower pressures as conditions get nasty... so the sidewalls flex a bit more and force the tire to pull the center "tread" up and use the outer side lugs. Radials maintain, or even increase the contact patch when sidewalls flex, they ride on top and depend on a larger overall contact area allowing you to maintain speed ('cause you're on top). You can't use those wide-open, soft(er) rubber, paddle-like side lugs on a radial intended for running down the paved road... 'cause they're always in contact and would wear out before you got home. (Like I said, we ain't talkin' "Swampers") Radials use "tread" to try and get traction in all conditions, bias only use the smooth "tread" area for running down the road... reserving the side lugs for only when needed. When my truck is sitting on pavement you can slide a quarter under the side lugs... try that with a radial.

Most of the comments I'm reading here comes from "radial" thinking... ya' flat gotta' forget how ya' drive a radial to understand.
Some other comments are coming from what guys remember about those bias street tires from the 50's and 60's... those tires are gone, forget 'em (except for some specialty tires).
The bias tire I'm talkin' about, tires for workin' trucks, are "special purpose" tires, they are designed for maximum traction under the worst conditions and loadings... they ain't designed for your street truck, or for off-road toys so ya' can fly over the rough and wet ground, climb rocks, and "float" over mud puddles... they're specifically designed to get down 'n' dirty, pulling, hauling, and crawling through the muck and slop. They tough, near indestructable... ya' ain't gonna' poke a stick through the sidewall. And if ya' spin 'em, and one of those side lugs hooks something solid... well... you're likely to break something on the truck before ya' hurt the tire. The lugs are self-cleaning because they're on the outer edge and the bottom is rounded, they literally "squirt" the crap out the sides... you can even sometimes see it come squirting out while sitting in the cab... every revolution puts "new" earth in contact with the tire no matter how sloppy, mucky or sticky it may be. They do "cut" to the bottom for that very reason... 'cause they're narrow and force the crap out the sides rather than ride up over the top. But ya' ain't gonna' run 30-40 MPH through crap like ya' do with a radial... you flat haf'ta slow down and "work" through it. But when the crap gets deep, and your radials leave your axles laying on top, wheels spinning in mid-air... these tires will still be digging and dragging the axles and truck through the crap, slowly but surely they catch up to ya', and drive around ya' hung-up azz.

It is flat impossible to make a radial work that way... and no "wide" swamper type can either (bias or not).
Just read the posts from guys in this thread that have actually run those narrow, traction-lug bias tires... they're saying the same thing I am.
Heck, philoshop even described it as boring *tunnels* through snow drifts.
I've run both types of tires, I still run both types of tires... yet, you guys that have never run the tires I'm talkin' about know more about them than me?? That's just crazy. It ain't just about the "wide" or "narrow", and certainly ain't about the "tread"... it's the whole damn package, it's the difference in how they work as a package. Ya' flat haf'ta forget about how ya' drive a radial before you'll ever catch on.
*


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

nathon918 said:


> *well how about some pics when mud season rolls around?, then you can prove everyone wrong*



Although I enjoy a good argument... err... discussion, I don't feel any need to "prove" anything. (Seriously, in the end, I couldn't care any less if you believe me or not.) If I need to drive through some deep slop, and I have a camera along (and someone to get out and take pictures).. well OK then. But I ain't gonna' go out and look for the muckiest place I can find, and then attempt to drive through it just for the sake of "proof"... that's a fool's errand. I ain't gonna' intentionally abuse equipment and chance losing the bottom just because someone don't believe me... my truck ain't a wheelin' "toy". Even when I need to get to the other side, and I'm confident I can, if there's a route less hazardous I'll take it... that's just common sense. But when there ain't a better choice, when there's only one way... I know I have the traction to get the job done if I keep my wits about me.

Just because ya' can... don't mean ya' should just because ya' can.
*


----------



## zogger (Jan 17, 2014)

Can't say when the last time I saw a real snow tire was. Years/decades. I also guess I am remembering bias, because I don't recall having radial tires back then.


----------



## wareagle5.0 (Jan 17, 2014)

4seasons said:


> Then you need to read again. Several post here have pointed out that bias ply is for off road and radial is for on road. Obviously tread design plays a role but the real compromise is narrow vs wide for digging to the bottom or floating on top.


yeah i was kinda joking.it just struck me as funny that there was this much discussion over a topic that can be summed up simply by just reading your post.


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 17, 2014)

Don't you guys have clay down there spidey? Here there is no such thing as a tire that will self clean, the clay will ball up double ring tire chains on tractors and leave them spinning on greased snot. The soil acts kind of like ice on a pond it floats on top, as long as you don't break the crust you are alright, but break the crust and down to the clay you go. The bottom is always on the clay, the top varies by soil thickness, from an inch to ten feet, we can drive back a field on shallow soil and into a hill, and they don't tunnel so well. 
I have ran bias truck tires my uncle swore by them on his power wagon, he eventually got sick of being pulled out and switched to radials.

http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/tech/technical-article-19432.html
The summary of this article says it pretty well. 
"Many people swear by one or the other. As with most things, there is not a clear cut superiority of one over another. Interco, for example, makes all three designs to satisfy different needs. Remember that bias ply tires served the industry for many years before the invention of the radial, and the technology has improved them dramatically. On the flip side, radials were invented for a reason."


----------



## morewood (Jan 17, 2014)

Well heck, I guess I can throw my change out there. There is NOT a tire out there that when it gets slick and the axle drags/pushes along that will help out.....slow or not. There is no cure all, no magical one type of tire/tread/width/height, etc. I like my michelins on the dodge, tons of siping to help with rain, ice, packed snow. I haven't had a slippage yet. If you need to get so far off road to get wood, I'm sorry, but that is what the tractor and Polaris Ranger 6x6 is for. The ranger just don't get stuck unless its dragging its rear. Don't know if those tires are bias or radial. I remember being told once that for every situation there is a solution.....just have to have enough tires to figure it out.

Shea


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

les-or-more said:


> *Don't you guys have clay down there spidey? Here there is no such thing as a tire that will self clean...*



I don't know what your uncle ran, or how he ran 'em, but you can't say that until you try 'em and run 'em right... ya' flat can't.
Of course we have clay... and that's one of those things these tires don't necessarily need to "find bottom", because the clay is the bottom (so to speak). And yes, they will self clean; every time the lug makes contact the "old" clay is forced out the side as the "new" clay presses in... the lugs are always making contact with "new" earth. The lugs themselves will not "load up", they just don't. If ya' keep your head and pay attention, those lugs will act just like the oars of a row boat and "paddle" right on through... if ya' loose your head and spin the tires, your flat screwed‼ (Because ya' ain't giving those lugs time to clean-out and work.) The "stickiest", gooiest, mud I've ever driven in was when I lived in Oklahoma... they called it gumbo... that stuff was like clay on steroids. Still, goin' slow and easy, keepin' your head and payin' attention, you could work your way through... get excited and spin the tires... well... flat screwed‼




morewood said:


> *There is NOT a tire out there that when it gets slick and the axle drags/pushes along that will help out.....slow or not.*



Says another non-believer‼
Sure, there's a limit... but you'd be surprised what that limit is.
You'd be flat surprised how much stuff those axles (and bumpers) can be dragged through as long as ya' keep your head, pay attention, and keep those tires on the bottom.
*


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> "Tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated... "tread" is overrated...
> 
> if tread is overrated, lets see how well you do when you have none... BTW what youre calling LUGS are actually (part) of the TREAD!
> when tires (including bias ply) are re treaded they dont just replace the center section , they replace the entire TREAD which includes youre "LUGS"


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 17, 2014)

I'm gonna quit arguing with Spidey. He keeps talking about it being a "work" truck. He doesn't haul wood with it, has a company vehicle to commute in, and near as I can tell, spends the rest of his time typing out long winded but 99% opinion posts here. That Ford ain't nothing more than yuppie yard art.


----------



## MofoG23 (Jan 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Vinyl recordings do sound better than CD's, the sound is richer, fuller and warmer... and they're making a comeback.
> Digital music tends to bite the ear, rather than caress it... believe me, I own hundreds of both.
> While sales of CD's fell in 2013, vinyl sales were up 33%.
> Here ya' go, read all about it.
> ...




Not a whole lot to add as I run a tall skinny tire on my firewood rig...older Goodyear MT's (235/85/16 - E rating) and they get the job done when pulling wood from deep in the woods. 

I also see some discussion regarding snow tires. If you are driving in some deep snow / snowy / icy conditions, nothing can touch a truly dedicated snow tire - not mud tires with studs. Siping is key as well as overall tread design and compound. I've been running Blizzaks on my personal vehicles for the last decade....to this day they still amaze me when I'm driving on ice or snow covered roads.

I will say your statement above is spot on. Over the last several years, all new music purchased in my house has been vinyl. Finally have a decent deck and would not trade it for any digital media. Next up, a nice tube amp...

The bonus of purchasing "new" vinyl today is that you usually get a free MP3 download for your ipod, PC or smartphone.

ok, back to the regularly scheduled program (topic).


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 17, 2014)

This is the best I can do for pics to describe what I am talking about WS, when you break through the crust you are done, twice on this field an 18.4x38 couldn't reach bottom. You can't work things back and forth it turns into goo and just keeps getting deeper, here the best thing to do is stop and get twice the weight of what ever is stuck, (as in two trucks or tractors equal to the weight of the stuck one) hooked on and pull it out the first try. You never know here when you are going to break through until ya do, I kept all my tires out of the ruts from this 1/3 of a load and chopped the next ten full loads without issue on this side of the field.
The clay here will stick double ring tractor chains to the tires and take away their bite we haven't found any tire that won't load up with it. Truck tires bias or radial are a joke in comparison to double ring tire chains on a tractor.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 17, 2014)

This thread reeks of BS 


Sent from my Autotune Carb


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jan 17, 2014)

My Cummins and radials pulled a 6 place snowmobile trailer with 6 machines on it through 20" of snow last weekend. Big deal? Not at all but i didn't get stuck.

I'm not buying the stuck snowmobile in crotch deep snow story.



Sent from my Autotune Carb


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 17, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> My Cummins and radials pulled a 6 place snowmobile trailer with 6 machines on it through 20" of snow last weekend. Big deal? Not at all but i didn't get stuck.
> 
> I'm not buying the stuck snowmobile in crotch deep snow story.
> 
> ...



Crotch deep to a midget's only what, 8-10"? My snowplow mounts don't even drag in that.


----------



## zogger (Jan 17, 2014)

MofoG23 said:


> Not a whole lot to add as I run a tall skinny tire on my firewood rig...older Goodyear MT's (235/85/16 - E rating) and they get the job done when pulling wood from deep in the woods.
> 
> I also see some discussion regarding snow tires. If you are driving in some deep snow / snowy / icy conditions, nothing can touch a truly dedicated snow tire - not mud tires with studs. Siping is key as well as overall tread design and compound. I've been running Blizzaks on my personal vehicles for the last decade....to this day they still amaze me when I'm driving on ice or snow covered roads.
> 
> ...



In the olden daze, 50s to 70s, with just turntables and tubes and so on, anyone's, low end to high end gear, I simply could *not* hear and understand the lyrics in most tunes. Just couldn't. it sucked, only way to half hear them was read along withe the jacket sometimes.

Today with anything digital, I can hear the lyrics, talking the very cheapest computer speakers, the pair for two or three bucks brand, or even this laptops built in speaker, 50 cent earbuds, whatever.

'splain that, because I can't. My ears are worse, not better, yet can hear human voice inside tunes better.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

We ain't talkin' tractors pullin' grain wagons les-or-more, we ain't talkin' close to the same thing.
*


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> We ain't talkin' tractors pullin' grain wagons les-or-more, we ain't talkin' close to the same thing.
> *


I know, but it is the only pictures I have that show what I am talking about, the principle is the same, if your truck breaks through you are stuck and it won't matter what kind of tires you have or who is driving. There ain't no pushing the surface soil with the bumper, you have to get back on top of it. That wagon we hooked to the lift arms on one tractor to get lift and then held its nose down by pulling with two more in front to get it out, without ripping it into pieces. Sometimes we have water gush up like you hit a spring, its just water that seeps through the soil and sits on top of the clay.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

The grooves and siping cut or molded into a tire is not the "tread" nathon918, that's called the pattern.
"Tread" is the portion of tire that actually contacts the roadway (even slicks have "tread" and offer the most traction on dry pavement).
Although technically the lugs do contact the surface at times, the "tread" of a bias tire is the portion used to contact the hard surface roadway (the center section)... the side lugs are utilized differently than the "tread". The lugs are technically the "shoulder", located between the "tread" and the sidewall.
Tread is overrated.
*


----------



## philoshop (Jan 17, 2014)

Tires? I prefer mine round.
Music? The better stuff today is being recorded on analog or 'analog enhanced' equipment. Nothing like it. I spent a fair amount of time in studios as a jazz drummer, and all the better studios were doing raw recording on 2" magnetic tape. Digital mixing and add-ons for sure, but the base was analog. Warm and honest.
I'll return you now to your regularly scheduled program, "The Tire Controversy". Available soon on vinyl or CD as a boxed set complete with a special director's cut.


----------



## Chris-PA (Jan 17, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> Y'all go easy on Spidey. Besides radial tires and EPA stoves, he's still bitter about losing the pull tabs on his Budweisers, and the fact that it's impossible to find corduroy jeans anymore. Makes for a crabby guy, I tell ya.
> 
> He'll be along to refute this just as soon as he can get that TRS-80 of his rebooted, and the 8" floppy drive's been acting up a little lately.


I'm gonna be laughing about that all night. It even made reading the rest of this thread worthwhile.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

Yeah... I gotta' say, it made me laugh pretty darn hard also‼
Heck, I may still even have a pair of corduroy jeans stuffed in the back of a drawer somewhere L-O-L
I'll look... and if I do, I'll put 'em on and have the wife take a picture just so you guys can have a good laugh.
Maybe I'll even have her take the picture while I'm holding a Budweiser and resting one foot on a bias ply tire... L-O-L
Sorry though... the TRS-80 is long gone... but I might still have an 8" floppy and an 8-track tape‼
*


----------



## Guswhit (Jan 17, 2014)

I still have my 8-tracks. Found them in the folks attic while retrieving some other stuff for them at Christmas. Couldn't bring myself to bring them down and chuck 'em though.


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 17, 2014)

Runnin radials I think  opcorn:
I've seen tractor pulls with less back n forth than this thread! 
Steve NW WI, ya better change the litter or dis pizzin contest gon get shhtankie!


----------



## cmsmoke (Jan 17, 2014)

Never get in a pizzin match with someone who drinks more "boxes of beer" than you. His bucket will always have more in it than yours!


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 17, 2014)

The litterbox is getting clumbed up forsure.

I actually do know what Spider is talking about with the ooze and the deep lugs. It has been a LONG time, but we had a old gmc and I encountered a section of road that was more of a mud bog than I really wanted. The truck got thru it, but it was marginal. Mud has a way of really REALLY taking a bunch of power. The old V6 really was wheezing when I got to the other side. Related subject, snow can have the same effect but not as bad. Leaving Denver one morning in 2 1/2 feet of champagne powder pushing snow with the front bumper of a lifted 3" toyota pickup.... I discovered that it would move and drive, but 1st gear was really a little tall to get it started in. I was better off in low range and using a gear just a little lower than the normal first gear. Granted a 22R wasn't exactly gonna light the world on fire but it did get me home. There were a LOT of vehicles that were totally stranded, stuck, burried, etc.
The tires were Radials.....31/10.5 BFG all terrain TA, if you ever looked at that dog bone pattern... stop and think... what makes that work so good?

I threw out all my old 8 tracks... Cassettes were the next to go.... Still have a box of LP's somewhere.... maybe can find a turn table... anybody want a Reel to reel? I got a couple hanging around out here... (one with tubes in it) At a high enough sample rate the sound quality is "acceptable". My ears are like shot anyway. I actually think I still have a TRS-80 somewhere... might still boot.
Actually, that was the last computer I really understood anyway...


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

Sorry guys... no corduroy jeans hidden in the back of a drawer.
But I did find these‼
Best guess... the first one is 1968-69, second one maybe '74, and the last one '72 or'73... ??





The guy with the speedo  ain't me, that's dad... I'm the guy on the left holdin' the *Budweiser* 




Notice the *bias ply tires* goin' on that Mustang


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 17, 2014)

Free way-back-machine rides!!!!


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2014)

Yeah, it too bad the pictures are so degraded... no doubt that Budweiser can has a rip-off pull tab 
*


----------



## zogger (Jan 17, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Is this the speedo thread?




uhhh....


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 17, 2014)

I'm puttin' on some waders. It is getting deep in here 
I remember now.... we had some "old school" tires back in the day on the van... Made for some really great burnouts. Those nice square shoulders made it easier to get the tire chains on too. Something that Tim and I got really really good at. 2 minutes top, and we were back in there and rolling.

I am sure my cans of pepsi had pull off tops...

You know what that mustang would go for now??


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 18, 2014)

*LOL ‼*
For some reason, the way this thread has turned, and now those pictures... this keeps rollin' through my head.
I'm thinkin' a bottle tonight, and some George Thorogood on the *turntable*... played real friggin' loud‼
LOL ‼

I was a rebel from the day I left school
Grew my hair long and broke all the rules
I'd sit and listen to my records all day
With big ambitions of where I could play

My parents taught me what life was about
So I grew up the type they warned me about
They said my friends were just an unruly mob
And I should get a haircut and get a real job

Get a haircut and get a real job
Clean your act up and don't be a slob
Get it together like your big brother bob
Why don't you get a haircut and get a real job

I even tried that 9 to 5 scene
I told myself that it was all a bad dream
I found a band and some good songs to play
And now I party all night, I sleep all day

I met this chick she was my No.1 fan
She took me home to meet her mommy and dad
They took one look at me and said ("oh my god")
Get a haircut and get a real job

Get a real job, why don't you get a real job
Get a real job, why don't you get a real job

I hit the big time with my rock 'n' roll band
The future's brighter now than I'd ever planned
I'm ten times richer than my big brother bob
And he, he's got a haircut he's got a real job

Why don't you get a haircut and get a real job

I even tried that 9 to 5 scene
*


----------



## philoshop (Jan 18, 2014)

Excellent 70's flashbacks!
I'm thinkin' of the pull-tab curtain we had in my buddy's hangout space in his parent's attic. That and the 'walls' made from empty Schlitz cans made for an oh-so-romantic getaway from the rest of the gang.
Or flyin' down the NYS thruway in my '72 El Camino with "Bad to the Bone" blastin' from the 8-track. Switched to radials for that puppy!! I'm still here.
Thanx for the wayback trip Spidey.


----------



## hamish (Jan 18, 2014)

Theres a reason why Bias Ply tires have gone to the wayside, along with leisure suits. Neither really worked well. I ran them in the past, don't every care to again.
Bias Ply are getting as hard to find as eight tracks.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 18, 2014)

Bias schmias. 4 dang near shot radials just drug my 9700# tractor off the road, where it died (hoping fuel filters iced up, but unsure yet), to an out of the way spot in the yard where I can work on it. There was wheelspin, but you get a helper that's fast and free when you need one, or wait for a good operator to show up while your tractor gets smashed into by the next idiot coming over the hill too fast.

Why wasn't I just plowing with the truck? That's a whole different kettle of fish. Suffice it to say it's getting some repairs sooner than I'd planned now. Going from 2 snow movers to none ticks a guy off, even if it's temporary.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 18, 2014)

philoshop said:


> *Thanx for the wayback trip Spidey.*



My pleasure... I know I enjoyed it‼
*


----------



## Vermonster (Jan 18, 2014)

Spidey, you could be a stunt double for Weird Al.


----------



## deepsouth (Jan 19, 2014)

I'll join the team that say bias ply is better in hard offroad - assuming you have the right tyre for purpose.

I ran Simex Extreme Trekker : Centipedes on my old Nissan Patrol for about 10 years..... in a 35 x 10.5 x 16 size. 

Let them down to about 12 psi (no tubes or beadlocks) and nothing has stopped them.

Heres one pic of climbing a black soil hill in the rain (it came through fast while cutting wood at the bottom) with probably nearly a metric ton of wood behind.




And a pic of the tread pattern


----------



## Hddnis (Jan 19, 2014)

So far every single anecdotal story in this thread in support of bias plys (that I've read) I 've nodded my head and said to myself "Yep, uh huh, I've walked right through stuff like that with my radials and didn't wish for more."

Like everyone else I used to run bias tires and I don't miss them one bit.



Mr. HE


----------



## v8titan (Jan 19, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> Stupid expensive, yes. But they still pay for themselves by getting more work done with less fuel - Spidey, that's done because the tractor slips LESS, and more of it's power is used to actually do it's job. Man, that argument sounds vaguely familiar.
> 
> I might also mention that the US military, which spends a fair amount of time off road, ditched bias tires back in the 90s.
> 
> Spidey, did you notice them Miller Lite cans come with a new paint job now? Straight outta back in the day, look just like they did back when **** Butkus and Bubba Smith were arguing about Tastes Great - Less Filling. Yet another argument that no one ever won.




As far as I'm concerned, if the military isn't using Bias Ply tire design anymore on off-road trucks, nothing more needs to be said about what is more effective/efficient...period.

Bias ply tires are less expensive to produce....if you want to go cheap, go cheap.
I have been exposed to the tire business for 40 years. My folks are tire dealers. I watched and lived the transition from the Alpha numeric to the p-metric tire size standard (bias to radial), 70's and 80's. The bias tires back in that era were junk compared to the new radials. If someone came into the shop without much money, they bought bias tires....the most popular size was A78-13. 

I'm not sure about the off-road bias tires but my guess would be that if you have the funds, a radial solution is going to be a better all around choice.

Does someone want to start a discussion about tube type bias tire vs. tubeless? That transition happened first.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 19, 2014)

I like tubes...for floating down the river on.


----------



## v8titan (Jan 19, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> I like tubes...for floating down the river on.



I have tried most of the sizes. M15 low platform trailer tubes had the best aspect ratio for water sports IMO.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 19, 2014)

Hddnis said:


> *"Yep, uh huh, I've walked right through stuff like that with my radials and didn't wish for more."*



"Walked" right through?? No running start?? No wheel spin?? No tire slip?? No rooster tails of mud??
If you answered yes... this time it's my turn to call the bull.




v8titan said:


> _*As far as I'm concerned, if the military isn't using Bias Ply tire design anymore on off-road trucks, nothing more needs to be said about what is more effective/efficient...period.*_



*LOL Effective?? Efficient?? LOL*
Well, that ain't sayin' much, the military also changed from the .30-06 to the 5.56×45, and from the .45 ACP to the 9×19... then did an about-face and put special forces back into the .30 and .45. The army, navy, marines... even divisions and departments within those can't even agree on a shovel or knife. Heck, they even pay $100.oo for a hammer to drive a nail because administrative and accounting foul-ups... *LOL*
By-the-way, the military is still using bias ply tires on "special purpose" off-road vehicles... and most of the radials they use would make your "civilian" truck drive like crap...


> *...70's and 80's. The bias tires back in that era were junk compared to the new radials...*



Comparing your Grand-pappy's tires to... ahhhhhh..... never-mind....
*


----------



## zogger (Jan 19, 2014)

deepsouth said:


> I'll join the team that say bias ply is better in hard offroad - assuming you have the right tyre for purpose.
> 
> I ran Simex Extreme Trekker : Centipedes on my old Nissan Patrol for about 10 years..... in a 35 x 10.5 x 16 size.
> 
> ...



I like that tread pattern a lot. Looks the berries for being able to road drive without it being totally stupid, and then go offroad quite well.


----------



## AIM (Jan 19, 2014)

Those centipedes look awesome.


----------



## Patrick62 (Jan 19, 2014)

Military intelligence. oxymoron. that being stated...
would you wanna be shouting expletives to a ground unit to see if they can climb a hill to "blow ya up?"

Guess what is run on a mercedes unimoog.... (one heck of a tire, btw) (one heck of a truck as well) 

Those centipedes look like a nice mud tire tho. Like a interco super swamper.

http://www.failfunnies.com/pottie-training-fail/


----------



## nathon918 (Jan 19, 2014)

this thread is bias vs. radial truck tires!
all of white spider's comments are all radial tires vs. the bias tires that he runs, not just bias truck tires in general.
i just call BS on most of this thread, as it seems to be more what you prefer...


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 19, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> I like tubes...for floating down the river on.


Its more fun to tube upriver behind a boat with at least a single 454!
Come to think of it we put a radial tube in my thunder tube after we popped the regular one, I don't know for certain if the original was a bias tube or not!


----------



## zogger (Jan 19, 2014)

Anyone here have any of those aftermarket tracks that bolt to trucks? Man, they look like they work good.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 20, 2014)

zogger said:


> Anyone here have any of those aftermarket tracks that bolt to trucks? Man, they look like they work good.



Not at 4 grand a corner.

I do wanna know what "special purpose" military vehicles are still wearing bias tires? Wheelbarrows? Hand trucks? The space shuttle?


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 20, 2014)

You know?? Garden carts


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 20, 2014)

http://www.segway.com/patrol/government-military/


----------



## H-Ranch (Jan 20, 2014)

Uhhh... it's the one in the foreground....


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 20, 2014)

H-Ranch said:


> Uhhh... it's the one in the foreground....
> View attachment 328922


Now that made me wonder how many millions were spent developing the amphibious version?


----------



## esshup (Jan 20, 2014)

The OP wanted to know about snowy conditions. I'd put these up against any tire in snowy/icy conditions: http://www.greendiamondtire.com/

I'm old enough to have used bias ply snow tires and I think these are better. I currently have Bridgestone Blizzacks on the VW (Peloquin differential in it) and had 2 sets of the Green Diamonds before. I prefer the GD tires. They really, really work well when there's ice anywhere on the road.

You gotta take them off in the summer or you'll be putting tires on every year or 2 at the most. I have a set of steel rims and swap all 4 corners in November and in March.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 20, 2014)

Ha! The re-invention of the studded snow tire. Neat‼
*


----------



## mainewoods (Jan 20, 2014)

A good set of chains and it doesn't matter if the tires are bias or radial.


----------



## les-or-more (Jan 20, 2014)

mainewoods said:


> View attachment 328947
> A good set of chains and it doesn't matter if the tires are bias or radial.


While no where near as good as a set of chains in extreme conditions I am on my third set of general grabber at2 tires, I have found them to great, as an all around tire. They aren't the best at any one thing but as a whole they are damned hard to beat, I pull a lot of wagons and trailers both on and off road.


----------



## Hddnis (Jan 20, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> "Walked" right through?? No running start?? No wheel spin?? No tire slip?? No rooster tails of mud??
> If you answered yes... this time it's my turn to call the bull.
> *


 

Spidey, you can call it whatever you want, but I've seen your truck pics, I even owned one set up just like it, except a super cab, it even had the exact bias plies on it that you run because the old guy I bought it from liked them. It was capable and held its own, I liked it fine, but when I switched to M55 Toyo radials the performance on snow and ice was improved. Deep snow, wet snow, packed snow, glaze ice, freezing rain, the radials did a better job and they were a taller wider tire to boot. not siped and no studs either. The sad part of this is that the M55's are not a super great snow and ice tire even though they are rated for snow, but they still did better.

Anyway, nice truck you got, I parted mine out after a year, more than doubled my money doing that. My F-350 now runs that 5.8 motor and I put the transfer case into my '88 dually. I kept the trans to overhaul as a spare and then sold all the other parts, body panels, fuel tanks, all of it, then scrapped the frame.


Mr. HE


----------



## 04titanse (Feb 19, 2014)

So not to mix things up here even more, but how bad do bias ply tires ride on the road. I would be putting them on the rear of my 89 f350 DRW. It only does 5-10,000 miles a year most on road but it does spend significant amount of time off road in the woods moving wood as well as moving dirt, gravel etc. 

Right now I run radial A/T's 235/85-16 and they do ok, but who doesn't want more traction in the woods. I run radial mud terrains on my other truck and they are decent all around tires, but they are not too good on road in the snow. 

Last question, I do a fair bit of heavy towing with the f350, will bias ply offer decent towing manors? I am looking for advice from guys you have actual run bias ply tires on their trucks.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 20, 2014)

You will not like bias-ply tires on dry pavement at highway speed, you'll hate 'em.
I'l drive 20, maybe 30 miles with mine, anything over that and I'll swap over to my radial A/T's.
To be honest I rarely drive my truck any further than 10-15 miles from home... it's been over 30 miles from home just once in the last 5 years or so.
*


----------



## Gologit (Feb 20, 2014)

Snow? Radials.


----------



## 04titanse (Feb 20, 2014)

Thanks guys. Sounds like I am sticking with radials, your advice lines up with everything I have read.


----------



## firebrick43 (Feb 20, 2014)

zogger said:


> Anyone here have any of those aftermarket tracks that bolt to trucks? Man, they look like they work good.





Whitespider said:


> You will not like bias-ply tires on dry pavement at highway speed, you'll hate 'em.
> I'l drive 20, maybe 30 miles with mine, anything over that and I'll swap over to my radial A/T's.
> To be honest I rarely drive my truck any further than 10-15 miles from home... it's been over 30 miles from home just once in the last 5 years or so.
> *



As my father said, cheap tires and cheap brakes will get you to the scene of the accident first. I have driven on coop buckshot bias plys. *Great* traction in thin mud, maybe off road snow, but packed snow and ice? No. They are the *worse*.

Now I know you won't agree with me Mr. Spidey as your stuck in the 50's so any test, research, and experience anyone has conducted since 1959 is null , void, and complete hogwash to you. 

I Have a set of Michelin ltx m&s and except for a true snow tire they are the best I have ever driven on packed snow and ice. Expensive yes but much cheaper than one accident. If I really need to tear up property of road or I feel the need to put my life(and others) in danger with deep snow on the road then I can put a set of tire chains on and walk right on by your stuck truck Mr. white Spidey . Remember most accidents happen within 5 miles of the house.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Feb 20, 2014)

04titanse said:


> So not to mix things up here even more, but how bad do bias ply tires ride on the road. I would be putting them on the rear of my 89 f350 DRW. It only does 5-10,000 miles a year most on road but it does spend significant amount of time off road in the woods moving wood as well as moving dirt, gravel etc.
> 
> Right now I run radial A/T's 235/85-16 and they do ok, but who doesn't want more traction in the woods. I run radial mud terrains on my other truck and they are decent all around tires, but they are not too good on road in the snow.
> 
> Last question, I do a fair bit of heavy towing with the f350, will bias ply offer decent towing manors? I am looking for advice from guys you have actual run bias ply tires on their trucks.



Duallies are great for what they're intended for - stability while towing/hauling heavy loads. Part of the tradeoff is they're not great off road, especially when it gets muddy. Good M/T tires help some, but you won't like the squirm when towing compared to the ATs you run now. Life's all about choices, and in your shoes, I'd stick to the better highway tires.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 20, 2014)

*"Just when I thought I was out... THEY PULL ME BACK IN ‼"*
- Michael Corleone


----------



## naturelover (Feb 20, 2014)

I do need to get a set of chains for the ranger to wrap around my 31-10.50s, any suggestions?

I did think of this thread when I pulled the camper through the snow covered sections and wet sections of the yard. Bout the worst time to move it, but needed it out of the way. Though I did a number on the yard, never did slip a wheel....


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## cmsmoke (Feb 21, 2014)

naturelover said:


> I do need to get a set of chains for the ranger to wrap around my 31-10.50s, any suggestions?
> 
> I did think of this thread when I pulled the camper through the snow covered sections and wet sections of the yard. Bout the worst time to move it, but needed it out of the way. Though I did a number on the yard, never did slip a wheel....
> 
> ...


Check out tirechains.com.


----------



## naturelover (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, I looked there, and kinda got confused.

These will mainly be for deep snow, know not much will help if it gets too deep, but...

There are sets at Wallyworld, but didn't know how well they'd do in the deep stuff.

I like the heavy duty two links, but it'd be $400 for all fours.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 21, 2014)

naturelover said:


> *I like the heavy duty two links, but it'd be $400 for all fours.*



Heck, that sounds damn cheap to me.
A good set of rubber, radial or bias ply, will set ya' back further than that... and the chains will last many times longer (shrug)
*


----------



## 513yj (Feb 22, 2014)

Here's my bias plys. Super Swamper Iroks


----------



## firebrick43 (Feb 22, 2014)

naturelover said:


> Well, I looked there, and kinda got confused.
> 
> These will mainly be for deep snow, know not much will help if it gets too deep, but...
> 
> ...




What vehicle, weight, what does deep snow mean to you?

I know on my jeep wrangler with 235/75r15 Michelin ltx m&s are not the best off-road tire. I don't have diff locks and I still can go through drifts over the bumper IF I keep momentum up. With a set of v bar on the rear only I can walk through it instead of busting them at 20 mph. Snow drifts thigh high, I am. 6'2. On all 4 I could go through more but I would pack my engine/radiator full of snow so why, bust out the tractor or draft horses at that point! Taller vehicle could use more. Out west in the mountains I understand that there reaches a point that the snow so far down gets packed that big wide tires will float but you have to be very carefully not to " chew " through it or you will be 5' down.

Cable chains are good for onroad packed snow and ice where the v bars are only good for off road. On road you want all 4 for stopping and turning especially on a 4x4 or RWD. Just fronts on a FWD is ok if you take it easy.

The best tire chains for both on and off road is these.

http://www.tirechain.com/DIAMONDSTYLECARCHAINS.htm

They are great on road and good off but the best thing is how fast and easy they go on. 
You said that it would be 400$ for a set but did you realize they are sold by the pair? On the sight listed above they are 115 for the best one a pair so it would be 230 for 4.

Another thing to remember is that oversized tires can be rubbing or very close to it especially on font fenders. Tire rubs now and then no problems. Chains are going to tear something up.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Feb 22, 2014)

naturelover said:


> Well, I looked there, and kinda got confused.
> 
> These will mainly be for deep snow, know not much will help if it gets too deep, but...
> 
> ...



I'm not an expert on tire chains, have a couple sets, but I don't use em often. The 2-link style just has double the cross chains compared to standard chains. This will likely give a better (notice I didn't say good) ride, but won't add much traction wise. I only have one set for the plow truck, have never put them on this truck, but on my old truck, just chaining the front axle made all the difference I needed when things got bad. Likely I'll try putting them on the rear of this truck first if I ever need to use em, as the GM IFS isn't all that stout, or cheap to fix. I miss my 86 sometimes..

I think you'd be just as happy with the standard heavy duty chains, or if you're strictly off pavement with em, the HD V-bar chains. The V-bars are frowned upon by highway departments around here, as they can do a number on blacktop roads.


----------



## JeffHK454 (Feb 22, 2014)

513yj said:


> View attachment 335004
> View attachment 335005
> 
> 
> Here's my bias plys. Super Swamper Iroks


Rausch Creek?


----------



## 513yj (Feb 22, 2014)

McCas


JeffHK454 said:


> Rausch Creek?



McCaslin mountain in WI. Back before the big ol mud trucks got the best trails shut down.


----------



## cmsmoke (Feb 23, 2014)

Tire chains also work great in mud...especially on bias ply tires.


----------



## naturelover (Feb 23, 2014)

Well, these will be for a Ford Ranger, and thought the two links (177 pair, thus around 400 for two), looked liked they would provide more traction. But if the regular ones provide as much traction, then that would work for me.

This one is one of the few Rangers that came factory equipped with 265's instead of the more common 235's. The 31 10.50's were not much bigger than the stock tires, and went this route since its a more common size. No rubs with them, but would have to be careful with full lock turns.

As for conditions, deep snow is 2-3 feet, maybe more, which may be more than it can handle anyways. Its pretty much snowmobile territory most of the winter, but during the spring is when I'd like to be able to get up in there. While its mostly gravel roads or even asphalt in places, its a really remote area, and getting hung up becomes a little more than just a nuisance.
The Ranger's limits with my old tires were found at around 30"+, during a snowstorm we had here. The new tires haven't been tested in that sort of snow, must be getting a little older, or wiser....


----------



## svk (May 6, 2016)

http://northerntool.dirxion.com/mid...KETCODE=&om_rid=AAkaUW&om_mid=_BXK0PXB9NUcSJL

Paging @Whitespider check out the lower right side of this ad.


----------



## NSMaple1 (May 6, 2016)

Can't believe someone brought this one back from the dead.

This place needs a Hall of Fame section/forum - just for things like this.


----------



## svk (May 6, 2016)

Well I saw that ad and couldn't help myself LOL


----------



## farmer steve (May 6, 2016)

svk said:


> http://northerntool.dirxion.com/mid...KETCODE=&om_rid=AAkaUW&om_mid=_BXK0PXB9NUcSJL
> 
> Paging @Whitespider check out the lower right side of this ad.


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 6, 2016)

Bias plys are like running a carburated engine these days ,yeah it works but why ?


----------



## brenndatomu (May 6, 2016)

Trx250r180 said:


> Bias plys are like running a carburated engine these days ,yeah it works but why ?


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 6, 2016)




----------



## Patrick62 (May 8, 2016)

drug this thread back from the grave eh?


My carbs work just fine with my radials


----------



## tla100 (May 10, 2016)

The only bias ply I have is on my scrap trailer hauler. But, it is running the old mobile home axles/hubs with 14.5" rims. Had a bubble poppin out, well a big azz hemroid, on drivers rear last time I used it. It popped back in after it was unloaded, only had about 3 ton on. Put a new one one tho.

For truck tires, my old Mickey Thompson MTZ were dang nice tires in mud, snow, wet. Super soft tho and didn't hold up well tread wise. Running stock size on my 3/4 ton. Don't help I run gravels a lot, plus there is a trailer of some sort on the back 75% of the time. Never got stuck once, pulled a lot of people out. Just running Firestone Transforce AT's on truck now. Smoother, quieter, a tick better mileage, and should hold up well to heavy loads.

Not sure I would run bias on truck. My Polaris Sportsman gets mighty grabby and rolly on pavement doing 65+, can't image them on a my truck hauling 5th wheel camper with fishin boat behind cruisin 75.....I know, apples to oranges.....


----------



## Whitespider (May 10, 2016)

svk said:


> *Paging* @Whitespider *check out the lower right side of this ad.*


What a friggin' letdown... Northern ain't got no full-size bias tires.



Trx250r180 said:


> *Bias plys are like running a carburated engine these days ,yeah it works but why ?*


For the added bite and traction in deep snow and mud off-road... that's why.
*


----------



## Guswhit (May 10, 2016)

I can't believe you finally come out of hibernation! Been watching this antique for almost a week again waiting for you!!!!!!


----------



## svk (May 10, 2016)

Guswhit said:


> I can't believe you finally come out of hibernation! Been watching this antique for almost a week again waiting for you!!!!!!


Same here. I thought he was going to snub us for the political threads lol.


----------



## Whitespider (May 11, 2016)

svk said:


> *Same here. I thought he was going to snub us for the political threads lol.*


Naaawww... I'll never snub you guys.
But I have been antagonizing the boys over in political... tis the season ya' know??
*


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 11, 2016)

My lil tracktah has bias ply's


----------



## brenndatomu (May 11, 2016)

Trx250r180 said:


> My lil tracktah has bias ply's


I put 'em on mah snowblower...gives me so much traction I don't even hafta start the auger...can just use it as a snow plow


----------



## sb47 (May 11, 2016)

Bias tires do get flat spots on them when parked in the cold.
Here is my take on off road tires.
Light vehicles with wide tires do benefit from the flotation affect.
However, it comes with a cost. In situations where the mud is not that deep a fat tire will float on top and not dig properly without a lot of wheel spin to clean out the tread.
Tall narrower tire will offer you that advantage of digging deeper with less wheel spin.
It's a triad off one must think about before buying tires.
Do you want to float on top or dig in.
Fat tires also rob you of any chance of good gas mileage.


----------

