# If price wasn't a factor, what processor would you buy?



## KiwiBro (Jun 23, 2011)

Cord King and multiteck seem the cat's meow. there are also a few Italian processors I quite like too. Probably, the Canadian Cord King CS27-40 (Model 60) « Cord King would be my choice, if money was no barrier. We can but dream.


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## Iron man (Jun 23, 2011)

If price wasn't a problem for me Id have all my wood delivered split and ready to go.And Id hire help to stack it for me.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## TonyK (Jun 24, 2011)

I would look at the Chomper Super 16. I like the idea of not having a saw to deal with. I would also add a live deck and a grapple arm into the mix.

Chomper Firewood Processors Model 14&16 Specs


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## blackdogon57 (Jun 24, 2011)

I would also go with Cord King, but lets face it, if price wasn't a factor i wouldn't be selling firewood for a living.


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## MNGuns (Jun 24, 2011)

Another vote for the Cord King. You would have to have a dedicated crew cutting / clearing to feed the thing or a big bank roll to be able to buy enough logs.


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## woodman6666 (Jun 24, 2011)

I would have the one I have now. Not Cord King or Multitek.


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## Oldtimer (Jun 24, 2011)

woodman6666 said:


> I would have the one I have now. Not Cord King or Multitek.


 
Really helpful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The top line Cord King for me. I like the circle saw blade.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 24, 2011)

blackdogon57 said:


> I would also go with Cord King, but lets face it, if price wasn't a factor i wouldn't be selling firewood for a living.


 
What price do you put on a healthy, wholesome living?
At the risk of sounding all cosmic and herbal, I gave up earning almost three times the amount I am now, to cut and chop trees, work in wide open spaces, be more connected to Mother Earth and dependant upon weather patterns. Call me nuts (plenty have) but the stresses of the job now seem somehow more natural and healthy. If I were rich, I'd still be doing this. In fact, I'm rich for doing it but not materially, if that makes sense. Well, that's my take on it. Your mileage may vary 

In some ways, having the processing itself as the bottleneck might just be lesser of two evils. If I had a Cord King capable of pumping out 100 cubic metres per day then the bottleneck is going to be feeding it, and clearing it, and all the complications and costs that come with supporting those two sides of the operation. But that's a headache I'd be happy with, if I had the money 

Come to think of it, if money wasn't an issue, I'd buy it even if just heating our own home. I'd roll out there one weekend per year, drag a few logs onto the deck, park the pick-up truck the other end and cut a few cords and have it all back in the shed before morning tea break. Or I'd have a shed built around it to keep it, the logs and the firewood dry.

We can but dream.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 24, 2011)

Iron man said:


> If price wasn't a problem for me Id have all my wood delivered split and ready to go.And Id hire help to stack it for me.:hmm3grin2orange:


I bet you a cord you wouldn't.

Because heat pumps are way better than fires anyway.

**runs for cover***


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## KiwiBro (Jun 24, 2011)

At the risk of sounding like a Miss Universe contestant (and let's face it, I have a face best suited to radio), I'd buy the 18-way wedge, strap bundles of firewood, and deliver to the oldies until my stomach could not take any more bikkies and cups of tea. Sometimes I think we forget how much the old-timers have to offer and I've noticed if one is sincere, they are more than happy to have a good chin-wag and tender their sage advice.
Also I'd deliver bundles to those who need it. Heck, right now over here we have thousands of people displaced or in drafty homes because of earthquakes as Winter hits. I'm not sure if they'd be short of dry wood, given the massive amount of buildings that have come down, but if I could deliver bundles of wood to those that need them, then we'd both be warmed by it.

Oh, and harsher penalties for parole violators, Stan. (not sure of anyone can guess what movie that's from)


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## leon (Jun 24, 2011)

*wood if you could*



KiwiBro said:


> Cord King and multiteck seem the cat's meow. there are also a few Italian processors I quite like too. Probably, the Canadian Cord King CS27-40 (Model 60) « Cord King would be my choice, if money was no barrier. We can but dream.


 
1. Chomper super sixteen with 8 way head
road legal with fenders, lights and brakes and towed with the unimog



2. Chomper hydraulic conveyor 

3. 10+ton road legal 3 axle dump trailer 

4. portable platform scale to weigh/sell firewood by the ton 

5. "Unimog" to pull the trailer to make deliveries and be able to hook the 
front of the unimog to the trailer tongue and back it in to make deliveries. 

6. Valmet forwarder with delimber boom 

7. 1 30-foot flat bed transport trailer to transport the conveyor and the platform scale 

8. 1 40-foot flat bed to transport the Valment forwarder with the Unimog


No sawing except to cut out a crooked log to make it a
straight piece to feed into the chomper.


No need for log deck or boom to handle logs as the 
winch pulls the logs to the Chomper.


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## SPDRMNKY (Jun 24, 2011)

I've been all decided on a mutlitek for years...now, after seeing the cordking, I dunno?:msp_unsure:



KiwiBro said:


> What price do you put on a healthy, wholesome living?
> At the risk of sounding all cosmic and herbal, I gave up earning almost three times the amount I am now, to cut and chop trees, work in wide open spaces, be more connected to Mother Earth and dependant upon weather patterns. Call me nuts (plenty have) but the stresses of the job now seem somehow more natural and healthy. If I were rich, I'd still be doing this. In fact, I'm rich for doing it but not materially, if that makes sense. Well, that's my take on it. Your mileage may vary


 
yep.

I'm headed out Monday to clear a pasture for a guy who was born in the old stone house that still stands there...he was real quiet as we walked around there...this is livin'


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

SPDRMNKY said:


> I've been all decided on a mutlitek for years...now, after seeing the cordking, I dunno?:msp_unsure:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, you got it. I've had people pity me for working outdoors in terrible weather when in actual fact it's just the way I want it. Frankly, I think the same of them in their high-rise buildings with windows that never open, their 2 hr round trip commutes in the concrete jungles, 10-12 hr days staring at a computer, etc. Been there, done that, got out before I got the heart attack.

Regarding Multitek and Cord King, whilst there's more to processors than flat out production rates, this is interesting all the same:
[video=youtube;77BldCnx7DY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77BldCnx7DY[/video]


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

16" max might be perfect for flat out production with plantation grown pecker poles, but it would be too limiting as the pecker poles are also the lowest value firewood we can produce here. There's also extra time grading the logs and less stock to feed it, the smaller the max capacity is.

From what I can gather, the real-use production rates of the cord king and multitek processors are so far in excess of the chomper they more than cover the additional loader/labour/capital costs. Provided of course there is enough to feed these machines and customers for the end products (I can see how people can get themselves in trouble forking out heaps of $ on these machines and just run out of wood).

Even at less than the capacity of 16" diameter, the chomper 8-way wedge will still produce firewood too wide for most if not all of our customers here without the box/honeycomb wedge available on these splitters. The production rates of these other processors would seem to me to more than justify the additional scrap the box wedges produce, which I gather could be as high as 20% by volume. It's not waste - pellet mills, garden supply places buy it. I'd take a more wasteful processor if it means happier customers any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But then I've never had to try to unblock a jammed box wedge yet.

Is your market more used to buying by weight? Ours is more used to volume, and the processor has the risk of buying in weight and selling in volume.

Sawdust, whilst considerably less than a harvester bar set-up, can still be captured and sold, although I'd much rather it was practically possible to have a huge shear blade that could handle the same 27" logs the cord king can handle. Especially dry ones, without crushing more than it shears.

Log decks on machines as high volume as these are essential, surely? They buy time, reduce a bottle neck, machine loading is potentially safer than manually hooking lines to logs at the bottom of a log stack and dragging that dirt into the final product.

i think though, it's easy to get carried away with the production rates of machines and not realise it takes an aweful amount of money and planning to build the log feed capacity and firewood sales volumes to the point these machines can really hit their straps financially. But it would be a great challenge I'd just love to take on.



leon said:


> 1. Chomper super sixteen with 8 way head
> road legal with fenders, lights and brakes and towed with the unimog
> 
> 
> ...


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## leon (Jun 25, 2011)

*I wood if I could*



KiwiBro said:


> 16" max might be perfect for flat out production with plantation grown pecker poles, but it would be too limiting as the pecker poles are also the lowest value firewood we can produce here. There's also extra time grading the logs and less stock to feed it, the smaller the max capacity is.
> 
> From what I can gather, the real-use production rates of the cord king and multitek processors are so far in excess of the chomper they more than cover the additional loader/labour/capital costs. Provided of course there is enough to feed these machines and customers for the end products (I can see how people can get themselves in trouble forking out heaps of $ on these machines and just run out of wood).
> 
> ...


 
===============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

On this side of the pacific pond it is legal to sell by wieght wherein
the green timber allows a greater income to the seller as there is
no seasoning period.


If you have bigger logs than the Chomper throat can handle there 
is no reason you could not noodle a log using a buddy bar and 
ripping chain which is my cutting chain of choice.

The noodled log can still be winched into the chomper and split up
after setting it on automatic and going after the next log with the 
winch cable.

AS for dirt and the Chomper I view it no differently than if a 
log skidder is used for clear cutting or selective cutting and
thinning, the dirt is still there. The only ones winning a beauty 
contest for firewood over here are the firewood bundlers and 
the firewood kiln users.

(ITS GOING TO BE BURNED ANYWAY)


Your selling a commodity that increases in value during the 
heating season especially with extremely cold weather and 
if someone wants and needs firewood they will buy it from you.
you cannot legitimately claim the chomper makes the wood look
butts ugley when you use a loader to pick logs off the ground 
and dump them on a live deck to be sawn and split as your going 
to carry that dirt onto the conveyor and onto the truck anyway 
so that argument does not holds any water.


Shearing the firewood at 12 inch lengths allows it to dry faster 
and it gives the customer four face cords of firewood.

The chomper has a grate to separate the dirt and debris as comes 
out of the chute and there is no sawdust to worry about and clean up.

You could always pull out the larger pieces as they come out of the chute 
if you wanted to do that but with the 12 second cycle time on automatic for 
12 inch firewood I would simply pull the larger pieces out of the pile if your
8 way split is to large in size but this also comes back to a two or four way split 
as you can always split them smaller with a dedicated wood splitter but noodling
a log with buddy bar makes the loag smaller and the half moon logf can be split
with the the eight way wedge position if it is to large in the operators opinion.


Even if the Chomper 14 PTO unit is picked with full automatic set up you will not be 
stuck as it is small and slower but the issue of supply and customers will be less
worrysome than worrying about a multitek or cord king and a machine to load the 
logs on the log deck to feed the cord king or multitek unit as you will not have this
expense. 

If everyone is so worried about dirt, of which the Chomper has absolutely no issue with, 
what would prevent you from simply carrying a supply of water to wash the logs before
they are pulled into the shearing chamber???????????????????????????????????????????

The water would make things a bit messier but if your worried about dirt on your firewood
why are you not washing the logs when you place them on the live deck??????????????

Again this argument is baseless as the logs are taken off the ground dirty and sawn and
split dirty and dumped dirty into piles or a truck and the customer gets the dirt anyway.


Edit: noodling logs, essential equipment.

Rather than noodling diameter larger logs than a super 16 could shear one could always
set the larger logs aside for another day saw them up and use a log splitter with a log lift and table grate 
as an option.

The fewer pieces of equipment and the less complicated they are to maintain saves-

labor
down time with equipment failures from metal in logs, broken bed chains, broken or dull saw chains, broken or frozen conveyor chains in processor log bed 
damaged circular saw requiring the saw to be hammered 
working capital
interest expense
fuel
oil
spare circular saw blade expense
IP teeth expense
initial purchase expense of log loading machine 
spares for log loader 
oil and fuel for log loader 
insurance for log loader
workmans compensation insurance for the loader operator 
salary cost of paying a machine operator
2 extra Haz mat kits for the log loader and the large processor which are mandated by the DOT 
depreciation expense for large processor 
" " " " "


The fewer expenses you have the greater your net income

The smallest Chomper would allow the end user to take the "what ifs?" and reduce them to
a much more managable level as the investment/expense per month is not not holding you hostage affecting everything you do.


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## Oldtimer (Jun 25, 2011)

The chomper has limits, is slow, and is way more work per cord..
True, the "conventional" setups require support equipment for loading and sawdust removal..
But having a skidsteer or 4x4 tractor is a good thing, and sawdust has value if collected and marketed right.

Gimme the Cord King I put the link to in my first post.

Also, the "rapido-Loco" is pretty nice for the money as well. Type "Rapido Loco" into a youtube search..


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## woodman6666 (Jun 25, 2011)

For me #1 would be the Hahn skidloader attachment that is what I run currently(I also own several skid loaders). #2 would be the Rapido Loco because of price and common parts. Then it becomes a tossup I have owned 3 different brand of processors Multitek's shuttle grapple is the best thing on their machine ( I owned one ) but when you spend 100k on a processor you expect it to really produce, and I can tell you that you load the log deck with the multitek and sit down you will never finish that deck without getting out of the seat to either beat a stuck piece out of the box wedge, or crawl up their conveyor and unstick a piece that has wedged under a flight, and just when you get back in and think Im really gonna bust some wood up the sawdust blower plugs up and your back out of the seat again and unplugging that thing, and then the cycle continues so at the end of the day you really start wondering why you spent all that money. But again I will say that their shuttle grapple is very good. I have not owned a cord king but have spent some time around them and all I have heard is that they are ok but when a problem comes up their service is horrible, I have heard this from 3 separate owners, so not sure about them. I can say that since I worked with Hahn on the skidloader type I can get in one of my skids and turn on the AC and radio and not get out for hours if I do encounter a problem I can just dump the culprit out and grab another log and continue. Just my two cents but what do I know.


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## woodman6666 (Jun 25, 2011)

A few other things i just thought of with one of the large stationary machines, on a cold winter day you have to get it running, warm up 50 gallons of hydraulic oil, just to start processing. My skidloader and Hahn is sitting in the corner of my in floor heated shop I simply get in hit the remote shed door opener and everything is ready to go if I need to sharpen a chain or add bar oil I just drive back into the warm shed do what I need and then go back out. Then when done processing for the day unhook and go do something else with skid steer. All in all processing wood has been easier and cleaner with this than anything I have tried.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

you gotta be kidding me. Ripping 17+" logs just so they can fit in the chomper? Or ripping 12+ logs just so they can be split to acceptable widths?

Whilst I accept this thread is a dream thread and money is no option, I think watching paint dry would be more enjoyable than ripping little logs. Firewood production is labour intensive enough without that sort of millarcky.



leon said:


> ===============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================
> 
> On this side of the pacific pond it is legal to sell by wieght wherein
> the green timber allows a greater income to the seller as there is
> ...


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> The chomper has limits, is slow, and is way more work per cord..
> True, the "conventional" setups require support equipment for loading and sawdust removal..
> But having a skidsteer or 4x4 tractor is a good thing, and sawdust has value if collected and marketed right.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I just did a quick serach and will do some more looking too. I like the comments from the owners who aren't tainted with a PC/marketing bull#### brush like too many other companies and their reps. I found this level of biartching on a youtube page quite refreshing:

"@HighSerrias Although my sales manager did a decent job explaining our rapido loco's entrance into your narrow mind I would like to add my own comments.My sweet Colombian wife would think nothing of shoving one of our decals in your mouth and painting over your dumb gringo face.My advice to you is go and hide from her in Mexico."


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

woodman6666 said:


> A few other things i just thought of with one of the large stationary machines, on a cold winter day you have to get it running, warm up 50 gallons of hydraulic oil, just to start processing. My skidloader and Hahn is sitting in the corner of my in floor heated shop I simply get in hit the remote shed door opener and everything is ready to go if I need to sharpen a chain or add bar oil I just drive back into the warm shed do what I need and then go back out. Then when done processing for the day unhook and go do something else with skid steer. All in all processing wood has been easier and cleaner with this than anything I have tried.



Thanks for your insight. We are on the other side of the world, so it makes buying a processor even more scary. The threat of being stranded for weeks with a machine that's not working, parts that are not commonly found here, and a supplier that couldn't care less, is not conducive to a happy and productive environment.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

Woodman6666, the videos of that skid steer attachment show the operator having to throw the machine around quite a bit to deal with the splits that don't exit the wedge properly. have you found that is needed and does that bother you or the machine?

What sort of production can you do in real life per hour, including allowances for harvester chain swapping and sharpening, etc?

How do you process 16"+ logs or do you have enough smaller logs around to keep you busy?

What sort of log lengths can you get on one of these?

How long have you had your attachment, how many cords have you put through it, what sort of work have you had to do on it to maintain or enhance it?

Thanks.


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## woodman6666 (Jun 25, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> Woodman6666, the videos of that skid steer attachment show the operator having to throw the machine around quite a bit to deal with the splits that don't exit the wedge properly. have you found that is needed and does that bother you or the machine?
> 
> What sort of production can you do in real life per hour, including allowances for harvester chain swapping and sharpening, etc?
> 
> ...


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## woodman6666 (Jun 25, 2011)

I just processed 3 cords quick for a customer with an outdoor wood boiler and I measured I was cutting logs up to 20" diameter.


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## MNGuns (Jun 25, 2011)

You know Leon, you push Chompers harder than I push SuperSplits, and that's pushing pretty darn hard...


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## blackdogon57 (Jun 25, 2011)

woodman6666 said:


> KiwiBro said:
> 
> 
> > Woodman6666, the videos of that skid steer attachment show the operator having to throw the machine around quite a bit to deal with the splits that don't exit the wedge properly. have you found that is needed and does that bother you or the machine?
> ...


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

With the Hahn unit weighing 2000Lbs does that limit log length?

Am I right in thinking the attachment is about $30k? Ouch.

I really like the versatility of a skid steer processor as it does get the most out of the skid steer investment, but please tell me it aint $30k.

Why not vertical processing (using a grapple instead of the feed rollers)? Would that lessen the chance of misaligned wood?


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## Oldtimer (Jun 25, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> With the Hahn unit weighing 2000Lbs does that limit log length?
> 
> Am I right in thinking the attachment is about $30k? Ouch.
> 
> ...


 
I thought those skidsteer processors were like 10K US dollars?? Which to my mind is PLENTY.
Bet you can afro-engineer one for a skidsteer with a little time and a couple cases of beer.

One thing I really like about those rigs is you can split and it falls right into the truck...or wherever you want it to season..


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## KiwiBro (Jun 25, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> I thought those skidsteer processors were like 10K US dollars?? Which to my mind is PLENTY.
> Bet you can afro-engineer one for a skidsteer with a little time and a couple cases of beer.
> 
> One thing I really like about those rigs is you can split and it falls right into the truck...or wherever you want it to season..


$10k sounds better. No conveyor to get in the way on tight jobs. I guess one could rig up a grill so waste/bark/small bits could be separated out. A way to capture the sawdust could be useful too. Regarding price, I was reading this thread here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/110965.htm


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## mitch95100 (Jun 25, 2011)

The *BIGGEST*_And The BEST and of course the most bad ass_


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## SPDRMNKY (Jun 26, 2011)

blackdogon57 said:


> Love to see your new video. Please let me know when you post it.


 
+1

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detour: ever since seeing that processor, I've thought it would be nice if the straight arms (with tabs) on the front where replaced with curved arms...something with a nice arc.


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## woodman6666 (Jun 26, 2011)

SPDRMNKY said:


> +1
> 
> ----------
> 
> detour: ever since seeing that processor, I've thought it would be nice if the straight arms (with tabs) on the front where replaced with curved arms...something with a nice arc.


 
Actually I have welded little tabs or stoppers on those arms so when in smaller logs I pick up 2 at a time and the tabs hold one log back while I work on another then a little quick curl of the skid arms and the other log rolls over into tray to be processed works well and saves me from going down every log.


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## leon (Jun 26, 2011)

MNGuns said:


> You know Leon, you push Chompers harder than I push SuperSplits, and that's pushing pretty darn hard...


 


There is beauty in ingenuity, simplicity, using gravity, and friction to do usefull work.


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## Oldtimer (Jun 26, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> $10k sounds better. No conveyor to get in the way on tight jobs. I guess one could rig up a grill so waste/bark/small bits could be separated out. A way to capture the sawdust could be useful too. Regarding price, I was reading this thread here:
> http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/110965.htm


 
If it's really anything over, say, $15K then I'd just fabricate my own. It's not exactly the space shuttle. And I'd LOVE to have one of them on 312 Caterpillar excavator! Swing to the piles instead of bounce around inside the skidsteer like a ping pong ball in a paint shaker.

I have this rough idea in my head about taking a mid-sized harvester head (CTL logging)
and modifying it to be a processor..no splitting ram, the feed wheels would shove the wood through the splitting head with the wood being moved ahead for the next cut....it would be very fast, and use a tree length stick instead of a pre-cut piece like the Hahn.
And it wouldn't need to be mounted on mobile machine..it could be stationary. But it would be better on an excavator.


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## SPDRMNKY (Jun 26, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> If it's really anything over, say, $15K then I'd just fabricate my own. It's not exactly the space shuttle. And I'd LOVE to have one of them on 312 Caterpillar excavator! Swing to the piles instead of bounce around inside the skidsteer like a ping pong ball in a paint shaker.



that's a heck of an idearrr...

and it's possible today with one of these...


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## KiwiBro (Jun 28, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> If it's really anything over, say, $15K then I'd just fabricate my own.



Please can you PM me if you do so and are happy with what you come up with b/c I just found this USED one listed for $27900. Yikes.
Hahn HFP160 skid loader mounted firewood processor. - Firewood Equipment - Firewood Processors -


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## Oldtimer (Jun 28, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> Please can you PM me if you do so and are happy with what you come up with b/c I just found this USED one listed for $27900. Yikes.
> Hahn HFP160 skid loader mounted firewood processor. - Firewood Equipment - Firewood Processors -


 
I'm not about to, just saying that I'd think fart smellers like us could make something that would work OK for a lot less than $27K.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 29, 2011)

Speak for yourself. My shed is cluttered with failed projects looking for someone with more skills and time, or to morph them into other projects ;-)
By the way, I received an email from Hahn today. Base model is $32,500. Add over $1k for the 4-way head.

Well, this is the dream thread after all, so I shouldn't be too disappointed I s'pose.


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## mouldingwood (Jul 24, 2012)

*Ceo*

I have been attempted to get service from CRD Metalworks for about 9 weeks. I am not impressed.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 24, 2012)

mouldingwood said:


> I have been attempted to get service from CRD Metalworks for about 9 weeks. I am not impressed.


Could you elaborate please?
They paint a pretty good picture. If the reality is something different, I'm sure many of us would like to know.


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## ShaneLogs (Jul 24, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> Really helpful.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The top line Cord King for me. I like the circle saw blade.



X2 Oldtimer, Thing looks sweet.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 24, 2012)

SPDRMNKY said:


> that's a heck of an idearrr...
> 
> and it's possible today with one of these...



Yeah, I'm agreeing with you guys on this. The way I see it, it's either something stationary like an electric cord king or the like (or perhaps multiple electric super splits) where logs automagically appear within 50 yards of the machine on a regular basis (but these sorts of processors still need a loader - equals more supporting expenditure - to keep them fed), or a digger with a grab/feed + (preferably) circular saw + multi way quick attach head on it that can be quickly and easily re-purposed at the felling site to switch from cutting roads and landings in, felling/bunching, loading out log trucks, splitting wood directly at the felling site if access or at least on the landing into the dino mesh firewood bags and loading out firewood onto trucks. 

That multi-purpose digger option is getting closer to bush machinery Nirvana for me I think, even if it's nothing I can afford.


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## zogger (Jul 24, 2012)

For the kind of money all these high end firewood processors cost, I think I would rather have a sawmill. Lumber is worth more than firewood, given the same tree, (broadly speaking you know what I mean). Then if you take that lumber and build with it yourself, either on spec or stuff you know you have a market for (a very wide range of products potential there), it is worth MUCH more "per tree" processed.

There's product handling, then there's product handling. Value added manufacturing "handling" is really a profit multiplier.

I will pick numbers out of the aether to illustrate

load of whole logs = $1,000, minimal actual handling, and corresponding not a lot of profit

load of logs made into firewood =$2,000 you've added more handling and turned the logs into a more useful product, you are getting paid for these steps

load of lugs made into lumber, sold as lumber = $5,000

load of lugs made into lumber, then lumber used to make stuff, 5 grand lumber into 10 grand big garage or 50 grand high end custom furniture or several 4 grand custom patio decks or......whole lot of potential there, thousands of products possible

Bulk raw commodity sales is third world colonial exploitation money (but it is still money, so that's cool, work is work I've done it a little, firewood), but the real serious money in wood is in handling it a LOT, many many precision steps, and turning it into finished products(I've done this a whole heaping lot more, both working in factories making stuff and also independent making custom "things"). If you have the resources to start with raw logs, you are getting profit compounded every step of the way from woods to the customers house.

"Value added" works well, just takes more work and planning, but less of the bulk resource is needed to compound the profits. Taking trees to finished products would be an example of what is termed "vertical integration". And if you can find a good use or market for the scraps you generate along the way, heck, that's just frosting on the cake. 

So that's what wood processor I would choose, a saw mill and wood working machinery, which I imagine one could put together at the low end for the same 30 grand or so being talked about here, a bandsaw mill, then an assortment of modest but functional wood working gear, the basics anyway, table saw, planer, routers, sanders, and assorted whatnot.


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## redprospector (Jul 24, 2012)

Let me tell you guy's a little story.
About 12 or 15 years ago I had a custom milling business using a Woodmiser LT30 that I had leased from a guy who inherrited it when his dad died. Well, business was good and the owner of the mill saw that I was making money, and decided he wanted the mill back when the lease was up.
I started looking at Band Mills and almost died from sticker shock. Being the "fart smeller" that I am, I decided to build my own mill. Long story short, I kept track of everything I spent on my mill. I kept track of the time I spent too, but I'm not counting that. With the business I lost, the length of time it took to complete it, and what I spent in parts I could have bought a new mill.......and a Bobcat. But I do have the satisfaction of knowing that I can build a real nice band saw mill that is powered by a 1600cc VW engine.
It ain't rocket science, but by the time you're done you may wish it were.

Let me know how all this "re-inventing" the wheel goes for you guy's.

Andy


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## KiwiBro (Jul 25, 2012)

redprospector said:


> With the business I lost, the length of time it took to complete it, and what I spent in parts I could have bought a new mill.......and a Bobcat.


Could you not leverage that investment to make more than one mill and start selling them? Did it stack up from that angle?

Hey, the wheel might be old hat to you pros but to some of us, figuring out the best bit of kit to make our time fun and profitable is half the battle. Hopefully before I die I'll win the lottery and have six pieces of the puzzle all at the same time:

tractor with winch
digger with normal bucket, felling head or at least a grapple, firewood processing attachment
decent small truck with crane, tilt deck and tilt transport trailer (with removable log bunks)
portable sawmill
Kiln (probably solar and/or wood fired)
Cabinetry workshop.

That is about as close to wood heaven as possible, me thinks.


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## Dalmatian90 (Jul 25, 2012)

For me, it would be a shoot-out between Chompers, the Skidsteer units, and the Logrite/Supersplit combination -- because I wouldn't be interested in maintaining a log yard and making deliveries, but doing some evening / weekend custom splitting at the homeowner's location might be fun...get the logs to a landing or driveway and I'll buck and split.

Profitable, maybe not...but you said money is no object


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## ChipMonger (Jul 25, 2012)

For me either cordking or a timberwolf processor. Both with conveyors.


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## leon (Jul 25, 2012)

Dalmatian90 said:


> For me, it would be a shoot-out between Chompers, the Skidsteer units,
> and the Logrite/Supersplit combination -- because I wouldn't be interested
> in maintaining a log yard and making deliveries, but doing some
> evening/weekend custom splitting at the homeowner's location might be
> ...





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Definetly the Chomper Super 16 and a Timberwolf TW5 with the log lift and split wood table. 
and the smaller Chomper Hydraulic Powered Wood Conveyor. 

The TW5 would be used for the short pieces that are too short to feed 
through the chute and any bad or shattered butt ends. In that way a very 
small saw is needed for any cleaning up


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## woodmizer (Nov 16, 2014)

I have a 20 30 cordking processor , saw blade model , I do custom cuttind for people , its a good gig , I make a decent living , never get rich , but I get by, the circular saw model is dangerous, blades crack and fly apart in the frost , seen it happen at the sawmill, theres no safety stop on blade why I dont no there should be before i consider buying one,,,only good part they are faster ,but the cost of a blade complete is about 2500 , saw blade and chain 150, which would you rather pay for a screw up, I get two plus full cords (3 face cords in a full cord) an hour depending on the logs , cord king uses an aftermarket disc not a good simmons disc ,not even close to the same quality , so I have to sharpen a chain or two that's what they invented electric sharpeners for, I cut a truck and pup load of logs on two chains even if they are dirty ,chain lasts a really long time if you set your sharpener correctly, I guess I prefer the chainsaw model over the saw blade ,lets face it most people only have a load of logs to process and I couldn't justify another 20 grand for the saw blade model, cordkings warranty is terrible just like everybody elses , its never theyre workmanship , its always your fault, they say one year no haggle , well the service manager will try anything not to send you the parts or make you pay the shipping , now that I own one , if I had the time id build one, got the shop , tools and knowledge just no time , the choice is yours sawchain or rotary blade , look at price, safety , and just what your planning to do (cut firewood or cut every tree on the planet in two weeks or less ) good luck on your choice


9


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## Timbercreek (Mar 2, 2016)

^this guys confused. Theres a world of difference between a sawmill ripping blade, and a carbide crosscutting blade.
Sawmill blades grenade when they hit very large steel, not frost. Used to have to help my father replace teeth on the sawmill if we got into some nails. The blade grenades when it hits big steel, bolts or lags. Sawmill blade isnt designed for a rough life, its designed to fly through clean, debarked wood straight and true.

A carbide slashing blade is designed to be out in the woods cutting logs to length all day long. It will see dirt, mud and rocks in its lifetime.
I see many tcr slashers still in operation with 2" cracks at the tooth holds.
Ive heard 1000 cord sharpenings on the rapido.
Id buy a rapido because i could buy 2 for the price of one multitek and i can fix it.


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## sb47 (Mar 2, 2016)

If price wasn't a factor, I'd simply buy firewood from a dealer and have them do all the work, hauling and stacking it.


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## sam-tip (Mar 2, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> If it's really anything over, say, $15K then I'd just fabricate my own. It's not exactly the space shuttle. And I'd LOVE to have one of them on 312 Caterpillar excavator! Swing to the piles instead of bounce around inside the skidsteer like a ping pong ball in a paint shaker.
> 
> I have this rough idea in my head about taking a mid-sized harvester head (CTL logging)
> and modifying it to be a processor..no splitting ram, the feed wheels would shove the wood through the splitting head with the wood being moved ahead for the next cut....it would be very fast, and use a tree length stick instead of a pre-cut piece like the Hahn.
> And it wouldn't need to be mounted on mobile machine..it could be stationary. But it would be better on an excavator.




Now the Hahn is starting at $36300 for the bigger attachment. Starting at $22400 for the compact version. I agree not a space shuttle. Why are they so expensive?


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## Timbercreek (Mar 2, 2016)

Lets see 100% markup for profit, and im sure theres a hefty percentage in there for insurance/product liability/ dumbass coverage.


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## zogger (Mar 2, 2016)

Timbercreek said:


> Lets see 100% markup for profit, and im sure theres a hefty percentage in there for insurance/product liability/ dumbass coverage.



My boss was telling me on new cheap (relatively speaking) airplanes it is something like 40 grand of the price just to help cover them (them the plane manufacturers like cessna) from lawsuits. That's the main reason old airplanes retain decent market value.


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## A100HVA (Mar 3, 2016)

when you consider the cost of workman's comp insurance and the IRS obligations , plus all the "benefits" of employee's doing firewood with chainsaws & hydraulic wood splitter.
it was easy for me after 10 years doing that ,I just went out and bought a cordking after the LAST employee's sob story.
that was in 1986.the learning curve for good operation on both the processor and the skidsteer took about 800 hrs.
preparing the wood is very important,you'll get a much better product out of it.this requires "knot bumpin" and such...but it's worth it!
separating diameters helps also,i found that you would get less debris when you do not multi block split.even though it takes longer,you get better finished load.
now that I got it down pat, I find that getting wood to feed this thing is a roller coaster ride. I've got to the point where I need 3-400 cds of oak on hand to get thru the times I can't get any wood,while waiting to get all the other species of local hardwood.
when wood is going good for me,i can move a tt load a day,that does not happen to much but occasionally. I figure that's a great one man band.i've got over 1,000 cds in between saw bit changes.this machine is very cheap to maintain once you learn how to put wood into it the right way.it's electric over hydraulic.switches are easy to change. it's been back to the factory 3 times over the years.i've always gotten great service at a real reasonable price from them.the last time I was up there gettin' my machine "updated" Robert the owner had just come back from the "shoot-out" and said I should trade my machine for the one he just brought back,so he demo'd it to me.....I said no thanks,that thing is to quick for me,now that I/we got all the bugs out of mine!!!
I get some good compliments on my machine when i'm up there from the guys who work there,they have shown me some of the replacement parts & stories of other guy's machines which I know of here locally that did not last long because of the "employee" thing.i guess when you buy it yourself,break it yourself.you learn how not to break it,and you didn't pay someone to do it for you!
winter operation I did the first year I had it,that was the last year.now I just operate when there's no snow.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 3, 2016)

Nice Chev you have.


I'm pretty happy with my processor. I'd maybe step up to an 18-20 without the shitty air system. (all hydraulic)


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## A100HVA (Mar 3, 2016)

thanks!


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## Sandhill Crane (Mar 3, 2016)

It is obvious from the photo you keep your equipment and yard up. Thirty years on a processor! Makes me think twice about investing in one. The new cost seems very high, but it probably did in '86 also. Thanks for sharing.


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## OnTheRoad (Mar 3, 2016)

I wouldn't buy a processor because I don't burn straight, small poles. 

If the wood fairy dropped a bunch of straight, 12" oak poles at my door every day, I'd own a fantastic processor.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 4, 2016)

Must have 15,000+ hrs on that 1986 Cord King?
The 18-20 we have at the shop is a 2001 and has almost 8000 hrs.


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## Chainsaw_Maniac (Sep 28, 2016)

I have a cord king model 36 (16-30). It's pretty good. It doesn't like wood over 14" though and I am always fighting with crooked longs, bumps, and branches. That being said, I'd recommend the cord king to anyone doing more than 200 cord a year or so who has decently straight logs. FYI, you WILL be cutting some of your wood with a chainsaw because it is too large or crooked to go through the machine.


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## A100HVA (Oct 2, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Must have 15,000+ hrs on that 1986 Cord King?
> The 18-20 we have at the shop is a 2001 and has almost 8000 hrs.



nope not yet, it just turned 5,000 & I have just replaced the water pump bearing, radiator cap & anti-freeze. 1st motor breakdown.
when it sit's for 1-2 years at a time with no luck getting wood the hrs stay low!
my customers love oak log's that's been sitting for more than 3 years, the bark falls off when I drop them on the cement pad before putting them on the deck to be processed.


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## sam-tip (Oct 16, 2016)

Hired a guy on craigslist with a blockbuster 18-20 yesterday. Busted through the logs fast. Good thing I trimmed the crotches off all the logs. Made a big difference. I sent one log that I didn't trim. The crotch got stuck and had to be pounded off the wedge. This processor only had a 4 inch cylinder for the splitter. He had no idea of the problems with the air system yet. Said he goes through a 25" GB bar in about 40 hours. The chain had 7 hours on it before he changed it with a sharp chain. Nails. The radiator did have a small shield. But almost put a log through it. Had a bunch of 5' logs. Had to lay them on the processor. His 8 way wedge was busted so everything was split with a 6 way. Will be spending some time with the super split busting down some of the pieces. He pulled the processor behind a truck with the elevator attached to the back of the processor. Almost 70 ft long. Never unhook the elevator. Pulled in at 5 minutes later we where processing. It was a challenge to keep the log deck loaded.

Still looked like he was working hard. Lots a handling the wood. Resplitting, holding the shorts, and the pieces that don't fall in splitter just right.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 16, 2016)

He's doing something wrong to only get 40hrs on a bar!

I get over 20x that. I get about 200hrs on a chain before it's tossed.


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## muddstopper (Oct 16, 2016)

40 hr's on a bar does sound a little quick for wearing out a bar. you mentioned problems with the air, does that machine use air to raise and lower the saw bar.I have more than just a passing interest since My processor plans call for a air operated saw cyl.


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## sam-tip (Oct 16, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> 40 hr's on a bar does sound a little quick for wearing out a bar. you mentioned problems with the air, does that machine use air to raise and lower the saw bar.I have more than just a passing interest since My processor plans call for a air operated saw cyl.



Yes just a small air pump for bar return is what I think he said. But it puts lots of pressure on the bar when sawing. The Kubota 1505 motor works hardest when sawing.


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## Sandhill Crane (Oct 16, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> air pump for bar return


Is down pressure hydraulic?


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## muddstopper (Oct 16, 2016)

I guess Valley would be the one to figure this one out, His blockbuster uses air. The only blockbuster I have ever ran was all hyd.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 16, 2016)

We have 2 Blockbusters on site. A 2001 18-20 with 30ft conveyor and a 2013 15-20 with 20ft conveyor.

The 15-20 is all hydraulic, the 18-20 uses air for splitter return and bar up, everything else is hydraulic. I'm not too sure exactly how the air works, if it's air over hydraulic or just air. I just know it's a PITA in the winter.

The 18-20 has a 3 cylinder Yanmar, the 15-20 a 4 cylinder Kubota. Both are around 35hp.

I'm not sure what he'd be doing to kill a bar like that. I have about 800hrs on my bar. It's certainly getting worn, but I'll run it till its worn out or the sprocket burns up. Just an Oregon harvester bar, nothing special.
I grind the rails every so often and blow out the lube hole (it gets plugged).


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 16, 2016)

All in all a processor isn't going to mean no work, but it's much quicker and less strain for sure. No way I'd be able to cut and split 5-6 cords a day by hand.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 16, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Hired a guy on craigslist with a blockbuster 18-20 yesterday. Busted through the logs fast. Good thing I trimmed the crotches off all the logs. Made a big difference. I sent one log that I didn't trim. The crotch got stuck and had to be pounded off the wedge. This processor only had a 4 inch cylinder for the splitter. He had no idea of the problems with the air system yet. Said he goes through a 25" GB bar in about 40 hours. The chain had 7 hours on it before he changed it with a sharp chain. Nails. The radiator did have a small shield. But almost put a log through it. Had a bunch of 5' logs. Had to lay them on the processor. His 8 way wedge was busted so everything was split with a 6 way. Will be spending some time with the super split busting down some of the pieces. He pulled the processor behind a truck with the elevator attached to the back of the processor. Almost 70 ft long. Never unhook the elevator. Pulled in at 5 minutes later we where processing. It was a challenge to keep the log deck loaded.
> 
> Still looked like he was working hard. Lots a handling the wood. Resplitting, holding the shorts, and the pieces that don't fall in splitter just right.



When you've got it all split down to size, what do you think the cost per cord will work out to?


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## shamusturbo (Oct 17, 2016)

Rapido Loco owner here. I've owned it for 2 years this December. Approaching 250 hours since we bought it. Love the slasher.

To answer original question from Jan 2011: MultiTek 3040 XP2--16 way box wedge with cleanout, grapple shuttle, 6 strand log deck, 2-60' conveyors with a tumbler. Simple enough, right?

A100HVA hit the nail on the head!!! I get a little preachy about the learning curve. You have to slow down before you can go fast or you are going to waste a lot of wood and make a lot of kindling and clean up. We have had way easy to impossibly hard "for-hire" jobs that have help speed up the learning curve. My brother/partner and I play to our strengths. He has become the better processor operator and I am the better skidsteer operator. Like he mentioned, you have to clean them the best you can and sometimes cut crooked ones in half so that they feed better. I am not sure how people work the models with the cab because there is a lot of jumping around. It isn't a beach vacation. The processor is only eliminating a bulk of the hardest aspect of "firewooding" like ValleyFirewood said. 

As mentioned, the CRD's are easily the best bang for your buck, price wise. They are the simpliest design and parts are relatively easy to source yourself. You can nit pick these machines all day. The skidsteer machines are outrageous. Once you factor in the machine hours on a skidsteer capable of running them, the production seems quite low. AND, every single machine DOES NOT make finished product. 

Sam-Tip: did you write a "review" of your for-hire processor guy yet? I would like to hear what you thought.


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## shamusturbo (Oct 17, 2016)

I wanted badly to build my own processor. I have the barn, welder/tools, suppliers, and talent to do it. With the exception on painting it. I despise painting. Like redprospector said on the thread years ago, crunch some numbers on building something like that and see what you could profit in that same time period and you want to buy it 99 times out of 100. 

I do, however, want to upgrade my processor in the near future. I would like to make my conveyor fold like the new models, add another live deck leg or 2 for shorter length poles, and want to add more guards near the engine mostly to keep weather off. 

If you want to get into a processor in the real world, with limited funds, I would get the woodbine (from CRD) (the bar and chain models versus the slasher) for sure. Used ones could be had for close to $20k. But with lottery money, the Multitek is the most refined IMO.


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

I know if I had to pay full price for the parts to my processor build, I probably wouldnt be building one. I have spent a couple thousand dollars on parts. I still havent secured a engine. Hydraulic hoses and oil will probably be another $1000 or so. I am into a lot of parts pretty cheap and a lot for free. I still need a few parts I most likely will have to buy new. I burnt 10lbs of welding rods just last week. Going to take at least that many more rods to finish just the welding. Some steel I have, but I have had to buy a lot and will have to buy more. I do believe I will be into this machine for way less than the suggested $20,000 cost of a used machine, but I aint counting my time building it either. Then you have the testing phase, where you find out things dont work as planned. You dont know what you will get into until you fire that beast up and start processing wood.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 17, 2016)

Very much the case that all the brands do it a bit different. The Blockbusters are quite simple, mostly metal available at any steel yard and common bearings, chain and hydraulic parts.

A few brands use a rubber belt for the conveyor. While it's quiet, it doesn't work well year round. The wood just slips if it's wet or cold. (And sometimes the belt slips too) Also have to fuss with belt tracking.

The chain and paddle conveyor is better. I've had to climb up and sledgehammer 3" of ice off it (snowed 8" and then rained and froze... yuk weather!) Makes more noise, but I'm on 5 acres and next door to a 500 acre farm and huge gravel pit that seems to think running CAT 988s and D9 dozers at 3am is wise.

A cab would seem nice but there's too much moving around IMO. Unless you have someone tending to the logs and what not. I keep a 55 gal drum about 8ft away and keep a fire going. In the rain or sun I have an EZ Up roof shelter. Eventually have plans to put the whole machine under a roof.


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

Both of my conveyors have flat belts. The belts are rotten and I plan on replacing them with cleated belts. I shouldnt have the problem with the ice like one would in the frozen north. As for a cab, in the summer I found all they do is trap the heat and I dont plan on springing for the cost of AC. If I just set the machine up at my place, I already have a large shed to work under. I suspect most of my processing will be for other people at there place, so working in bad weather might be limited to places with easy access and working in a framers field probably wont be a option if the ground is wet or raining. I dont have any plans of getting into the selling wood business. I dont want the hassel nor do I want to spend the time delivering wood. Any wood I sell would be buyer pickup only. I know that limits sells, but I would rather go fishing than spend all my time trying to fill orders.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 17, 2016)

Id rather do plenty of other things too, though those other things don't pay the bills.


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Id rather do plenty of other things too, though those other things don't pay the bills.


Depends on the bills and wants. What you want is what creates the bills. I want a processor, but not enough to borrow money to own one. If I dont borrow money, I dont have to pay it back. If i dont have to pay it back, then I dont need to work to make extra money. Its a vicious cycle, You want something, you have to work for it. Some times you have to borrow and when you borrow, your committed to working to pay it back, and there goes your time to do the things you like. Could say the same thing about a fishing boat, you like to fish so you buy a boat, now you have to work to pay for the boat and you dont have time to fish. Cant win. Have fun when your young, work until your to old to do anything else, and then die, cant win


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 17, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> Depends on the bills and wants. What you want is what creates the bills. I want a processor, but not enough to borrow money to own one. If I dont borrow money, I dont have to pay it back. If i dont have to pay it back, then I dont need to work to make extra money. Its a vicious cycle, You want something, you have to work for it. Some times you have to borrow and when you borrow, your committed to working to pay it back, and there goes your time to do the things you like. Could say the same thing about a fishing boat, you like to fish so you buy a boat, now you have to work to pay for the boat and you dont have time to fish. Cant win. Have fun when your young, work until your to old to do anything else, and then die, cant win



I like having a roof over my head, warm bed and lights.  Have to work to keep all that!


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I like having a roof over my head, warm bed and lights. Have to work to keep all that!


Dont we all!!


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## reddogrunner (Oct 18, 2016)

I would buy the one you can run on the front of a skidsteer where you can pick up the log and take it about anywhere to split and drop it. That's things are titties.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 25, 2016)

Why split when you can shave


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## KiwiBro (Oct 25, 2016)

an auto type of tempest?

http://absbiomass.com/products/autosplit/videos

Or


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 25, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> an auto type of tempest?
> 
> http://absbiomass.com/products/autosplit/videos
> 
> Or





Holee. Would die of old age before getting the wood split!


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## jrider (Oct 25, 2016)

I can't figure out why guys who pretty much only move levers wear gloves in all these videos.


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## sam-tip (Oct 30, 2016)

Talked to an owner of a hahn on Saturday. He loves it except for the saw dust mixes with the wood. But he loads it with a mini loader. Thought that was odd. Then I saw a almost new block buster 22-20. I like the size of the splits. Good fireplace size splits. Then we saw this at a logging company.







We were driving around SE Wisconsin looking at foliage.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 30, 2016)

Would it be worth tracking down the powersplit owners for a real-world review?


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## dancan (Oct 30, 2016)

jrider said:


> I can't figure out why guys who pretty much only move levers wear gloves in all these videos.



Usually , they have brand new gloves .


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## dancan (Oct 30, 2016)

If price wasn't a factor ... This .


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## benp (Oct 30, 2016)

A tromel at the end. Holy cow. 

No more kids table with those big boy moves. 

That is incredible.


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## shamusturbo (Nov 2, 2016)

I supplement what I sell with some firewood I source from a large tree service guy who does firewood on the side. He just bought a Powersplit, single machine with a conveyor. He's only had it 2 weeks now and I haven't made it down to see it in action and get a review. I will post back if I get a chance this weekend. I know he told me last weekend he was splitting a cord an hour with it. He keeps all the wood over 22" in diameter and sells me the 12"-22" stuff in a tri-axle. So to say, he is splitting some seriously big wood down.


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