# Traditional vs Splitail



## Jed1124 (Mar 16, 2013)

After reading Jepson Tree Climbers Companion I decided to start out climbing traditional with a anchor hitch on a blakes. The guys at work are breaking my chops saying I am wasting my time and should just go to a split tail on a prussic. Jepson seemed to imply that it is best to start off traditional and move up to a split tail. I am using a cmi foot ascender as well. Re crotching takes longer but I am comfortable with this system and like it's simplicity. Are any of you guys that have been climbing a long time still climbing traditional or is it just a thing of the past. Should I just move to a split tail now? Thanks for any advice.


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## timberland ts (Mar 16, 2013)

If your comfortable with what you have step up to a split tail with a blakes and go from there. Low and slow,to start.


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## Jed1124 (Mar 16, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. Is the traditional system something guys just move away from or does it have any advantage other than less components?


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 16, 2013)

I would try the splitail. It saves your climbline ends so you don't have to cut them when the get burnt and you can unhook your hitch to move around obstacles and such without having to tie your hitch repeatedly throughout the day. I tie my line with an anchor knot to my locking rope snap, tie my splitail with an anchor knot to a carabiner. I put the ropesnap one way through my D's and my carabiner the other ...where the opening mechanisms are opposite of each other....less snagging type potential I've found. 
For my splitail I just use a piece of the same climbline I use(TruBlue). 
It works really really well for me using this system with the blakes hitch. 
Off the topic... I hook a carabiner on my right side D and run my climbline through it. It keeps my line away from my spurs and gives my hitch ride a better feel . Hope this helps .
Ryan


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## beastmaster (Mar 16, 2013)

The only advantage I can see in starting out with the,"traditional" way (or as I call it, outdated) is it may be good to know for those one in a million times when for some reason you have to improvise a climbing system for some reason. Most the climbers I know still use a taunt hitch off the tail of their climbing line. I used that system myself for 20 years. 
I wouldn't go back for nothing to that primitive, energy sapping, awkward climbing system. At a minimum a split tail with a pulley to advance your knot. The pulley is the single most important advancement in climbing if you ask me. Being able to advance your knot one handed is twice as good as using two hands. If you footlock or use a foot ascender it's like night and day. I know you asked about split tail v traditional, not pulleys, but they go hand in hand with split tails. 
There is no reason to spend time on that primitive way to climb. You can make one, buy one, but switch to a split tail, and a pulley to advance your knot. If you're not using a Blakes hitch yet, start. You won't regret it.
You can build a house with a hand saw and a hammer, or you can use a worm drive power saw and an air hammer. Either will get the job done, but one is faster and less labor intensive.


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## smokey01 (Mar 17, 2013)

Jed1124 said:


> After reading Jepson Tree Climbers Companion I decided to start out climbing traditional with a anchor hitch on a blakes. The guys at work are breaking my chops saying I am wasting my time and should just go to a split tail on a prussic. Jepson seemed to imply that it is best to start off traditional and move up to a split tail. I am using a cmi foot ascender as well. Re crotching takes longer but I am comfortable with this system and like it's simplicity. Are any of you guys that have been climbing a long time still climbing traditional or is it just a thing of the past. Should I just move to a split tail now? Thanks for any advice.


Couple of questions: So you have a single climbing line using it DdRT and a Blakes Hitch? What do you mean by an anchor hitch? Is that an anchor knot you are using to attach to a carabiner you attach to your saddle? If so, how do you do that without a split tail? 
Also, by split tail would you be referring to an e2e split tail or a single eye split tail? I will assume when you say "traditional" you are using some cinching knot like a clove hitch to "anchor" to your saddle. I have not been climbing long but I will tell you I lasted about 2 days on what you refer to as the "traditional" system, it is great if all you have is a climbing line, saddle and one carabiner, other than that.......not fun. 
The pulley mentioned is a great thing and if you are not using one, that would be the FIRST thing I do. Look in the Sherrill Tree catalog around the pages with pulleys for pictures of options you can use to tend your hitch. If all you do is put a small prusik cord and dog leash above your saddle anchor, then connect it to a pulley below your Blakes hitch it will be a world of difference, totally self tending, just step down on your CMI foot ascender and up you go, no set back, no trying to push the Blakes hitch up the rope etc. 
Without all the info I would definitely recommend at the very least getting a single eye split tale, using an anchor knot or scaffold knot on a carabiner to attach to your saddle and the small pulley etc to make it all self tending (no hands). The money you save on a pulley and split tale will come back to you in the longevity of your climbing line.


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## Jed1124 (Mar 17, 2013)

*I*

These were all great suggestions and exactly what I was looking for. I will defiantly be moving to a split tail the next time I am out. I appreciate the replies. And smokey I meant a anchor knot not anchor hitch to a blakes, little tired last night from climbing old school all day. LOL If I look for the pulley you guys are talking about is there a specific name for one. Is it similar to using a hand ascender or even better. Or is this the micro for tending the running end. Sorry I been doing tree work for a while but am green to the climbing side of things. It's getting old paying out three or four hundred every time I get a job that requires a climber and I would really like to start doing some small prunes myself. Besides I have found out how much I enjoy it. Thanks again.


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## Jed1124 (Mar 17, 2013)

Another question I forgot. All the guys I work with are using a prussic for a friction hitch. Beastmaster mentioned the blakes hitch which I also prefer, just happens to be what I am using. Is the blakes better or is it just a matter of preference. These guys I work with have all been trained by the same guy and have never really looked at any other way. At first they did not even understand how I was going to get up the tree without another piece of rope for a bridge to my friction hitch.


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## beastmaster (Mar 18, 2013)

If your using a split tail or any other system that has only one tie in and a tail, a blakes is Superior to the taunt hitch that most climbers used back in the day. A taunt hitch will keep getting shorter and shorter(the tail), and farther away from your hand(the knot). A blakes don't creep like that, and is safer. If your using a 2 holed prussic(a close system)the knots are endless. 
Most climber are still using the same system they were first taught. If you've been climbing one way for many years, trying a new way is going to be awkward at first. Lot of guys won't even give it a chance. The fact your on this site asking questions shows your willing to open your mind. Being progressive will make you a better climber, being willing to try new Technics will raise your level of expertise. Some things may be fads, other revolutionary. If you don't try stuff, you won't know whats good and whats bad, don't get traditional confused with better.


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## miko0618 (Mar 21, 2013)

personally, I find the prusik difficult to break when loaded. the blakes to me is a much better friction hitch. split tail gives you lots of advantages. plus, what if you had to get off the tree quickly? 2 biners and I am free vs untying 2 knots.


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 21, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> personally, I find the prusik difficult to break when loaded. the blakes to me is a much better friction hitch. split tail gives you lots of advantages. plus, what if you had to get off the tree quickly? 2 biners and I am free vs untying 2 knots.



Great point. Back in the day I was climbing on a traditional rig, cut into a bee hive. Burned down, but had to untie. Longest 30 seconds of my life.


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## smokey01 (Mar 22, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> ..........split tail gives you lots of advantages. plus, what if you had to get off the tree quickly? 2 biners and I am free vs untying 2 knots.


I agree that the split tale gives you many advantages. 
One way to make the disconnect a little faster is to tie a clove hitch midline, which is very easy to tie and is considered an approved cinching knot, to a carabine and then attach that to your saddle. You just disconnect the carabiner from your saddle and walk away from the single line, clove hitch and blakes hitch still haning on the tree. 
In this case it would even be faster, if that was the only considration, as you only have one carabiner rather than two to disconnect.


Richard


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## joezilla11 (Mar 22, 2013)

When I climb with a split tail and anytime there's slack the carabiner on the split tail slides down the rope bridge and over the rubber stopper and sticks on it when I tend the slack and put my weight on it requiring me to adjust it every time. It's really irritating any tips on that? I have the puma with the warpspeed bridge. I've been debating putting rings on my bridge or maybe just some webbing connecting the carabiner to the other carabiner on the working end to keep it from sliding all the way down?


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 22, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> When I climb with a split tail and anytime there's slack the carabiner on the split tail slides down the rope bridge and over the rubber stopper and sticks on it when I tend the slack and put my weight on it requiring me to adjust it every time. It's really irritating any tips on that? I have the puma with the warpspeed bridge. I've been debating putting rings on my bridge or maybe just some webbing connecting the carabiner to the other carabiner on the working end to keep it from sliding all the way down?



The rings really help with that.


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## smokey01 (Mar 22, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> When I climb with a split tail and anytime there's slack the carabiner on the split tail slides down the rope bridge and over the rubber stopper and sticks on it when I tend the slack and put my weight on it requiring me to adjust it every I've been debating putting rings on my bridge or maybe just some webbing connecting the carabiner to the other carabiner on the working end to keep it from sliding all the way down?


My saddle does not have a rope bridge but what about gerth hitching the carabiner to your bridge when you don't want it to move? Or a munter or clove hitch again?


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## joezilla11 (Mar 22, 2013)

Are you saying to use the rope bridge for the girth hitch or Clove hitch on the carabiner? My bridge is way to short for that and I'd have to disassemble the saddle to do it. Maybe with a longer DIY rope bridge that would work. Anyone of you other guys try that? 

I think I'll try the rings then and it'll give me an excuse to put an order in! Good thing it's my birthday maybe ill just give the wife the bill.. Oh wait joint account... What a scam that is!


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## miko0618 (Mar 24, 2013)

I run an anchor knot for my main line on 1 biner and anchor knot to terminate the bridge of my blakes on another. run a long tail on your main line and tie your biners together. you can always tie both ends to 1 biner but when relocating, you have to untie one knot. gotta watch you biners laying sideways. the gates are not rated for life support. if you put a good force on the gate it would break right open.


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## joezilla11 (Mar 24, 2013)

Not a bad idea it's worth a try, but if you tie your terminations and a stopper knot with the tail and then tie the biners together isn't that a lot bulk going on there having all those knots in one space? Or I'm guessing you don't tie stoppers


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## joezilla11 (Mar 24, 2013)

What's the SOP on the bridge rings? Anyone hook both carabiners to one large ring or would that cause issues with them being forced on top of one another. I was just planning on getting one small one for my split tail to solve my issue


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## miko0618 (Mar 24, 2013)

i do tie a stopper not. I only loop my tail through both when I am ascending a long distance. then it goes to a fishermans knot on the main line.


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## Bermie (Mar 27, 2013)

Put ONE carabiner on your bridge, there is plenty of room in one biner, clip the eye of your split tail into it, get one that has a tight eye, or make it tight with a couple of zip ties.
.
Tie the end of your climb line to the SAME biner with a double fisherman's, this will cinch down and stay put, then once you've got the length right standing on the ground, tie your blake's...This way there is always a bit of weight on the biner, and when you hump up, nothing flops down like when you use a separate biner for the split tail..make sure the end of the climb line is on the side nearest the biner's gate, so you can remove it easily when re-positioning.

I used to use a bowline for the termination of my climb line, but it has too much slack, untying and re-tieing a fisheman's takes very little time...most times the knot will stay intact when you throw it higher and you can just re-clip into the loop again...got to watch it though.

I've moved on from even this setup, gone to the Hitchclimber pulley and a VT hitch...even better, smoother, easier to tend with one hand.

However, knowing how to tie and use the 'no-split tail' system is valuable, someday you'll need it in a tight spot when you don't have any extra gear, just the other end of your climb line, I know I have!


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## miko0618 (Mar 28, 2013)

I agree. knowing the standard drt tie in is useful. I often use the tail end of my climbing line as a second line in the tree. use an anchor knot (hitch) to a biner the tail becomes my blakes. 

I never use a bowline or figure 8 on my main line as they dont cinch.


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## joezilla11 (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks the one biner fix worked out well today. I even threw on a pulley for slack tending but to me it just causes a gaggle with all that rope. I found it much easier to leave a long bridge and pull myself up and around as I slide the knot up. Ill have to work on technique I guess.


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## PassionForTrees (Apr 13, 2013)

Just strolling onto this thread and thought to add as well, I was so stuck on my comfort level, that I was so not changing unless I saw a significant advantage, well over the years man have we come a long way. I would never ever climb that way again. Eye splice on all my climbing ropes and for some one on each end. For beginners it is good to have more tool in the tool box for say and learn how to do old style traditional if and when needed for secondary tie in point but turning that into a split tail is easy to do and carry a separate climbing knot with ya or 3. I have used the blakes and who can complain of that, works really well, but I do prefer the Shwabish Prusik over most of them which is an eye n eye that you can play with and find your length. I dont like the pulleys much at all. I like to advance a full stride and the pulley just gets in the way, but I can incorporate that system with a long knot back to a shorter one and then use the pulley. alot of guys like it, I am just not one of those guys. The time that is saved by being able to take off your eye and re direct or use a friction saver go down 15 feet and retreive your friction saver by unclipping your eye splice and have the retrieiver ball on the eye and retrieve your friction saver is so safe and so productive and easy! I used to come down on the rigging/pulling rope with a muenter hitch, backed up with a prussik and got away from that now using an adjustable eye n eye friction saver. So as you get more experienced in climbing your will see the many advantages of the eye splice and the split tail system for Sure!!


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## 046 (Apr 13, 2013)

here's a few lifeline termination knots. split tail (red rope) uses a triple fisherman which cinches down against biner. it's the only lifeline knot that I'd use without a backup knot. triple fisherman is also the knot recommended by rope mfg for Spectra/dyneema. 

notice how neat all the knots are tied .. one can tell almost instantly if knot has been tied correctly.


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