# Problems with Echo CS-590 Timberwolf



## trab (Mar 28, 2016)

Hey guys just purchased this saw about 3-4 months ago. Put its first tank of gas in and go to start it up. Almost fires so i push choke in half way and the saw fires up, is reved up fairly high and seems normal. As soon as i hit the gas the saw bogs and dies. I put the choke back in the middle and it will sit and run in this spot, it is idle'ing high but will continue to run for as long as you leave it. If i hit the gas it will bog or sometimes rev up and if i keep it reved it will continue to run. But if i let the RPM's drop the saw will just start to bog badly and die eventually. Any idea's whats going on? I called echo and they told me to take it to there service store near my house, but they told me i would be charged if it is carburetor related as this is general maintenance. I also pulled the carb and gave it a look through and it is spotless.


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## LoveStihlQuality (Mar 28, 2016)

Did the dealer have it started and turned when you bought it? A good dealer should fix you up n/

LoveStihlQuality


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## trab (Mar 28, 2016)

It came from home depot so they didnt do anything.


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## Storm56 (Mar 28, 2016)

Sounds like it needs the carb set up. While it is not difficult, it also is not a task for a newbie to perform. Since it is still in warranty, take it to a dealer. They are fine saws by the way!


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## ANewSawyer (Mar 28, 2016)

Sounds like both screws on the carb need richened (turned to the left on most carbs). You may have to trim or remove the limiters on the carb screws to do this, which will void your warrenty. But it sounds like your saw will die soon with out it. Sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes.

If a dealer will do it properly, go ahead. But the dealer may not do it since it isn't their saw.


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## SawTroll (Mar 28, 2016)

What does the operator manual say about the starting procedure?

*Edit*, I looked it up, and as I suspected, it says "push the choke lever _*all*_ the way in" (when the engine has fired).


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## Andyshine77 (Mar 28, 2016)

My 590 did the same, you have to open up the L speed needle, which in your case means taking the saw to the dealer.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## trab (Mar 28, 2016)

Ok i will try and adjust the high & low needles tomorrow, i would love to take it in and have it serviced under warranty but they told me that its not something covered under the warranty and i would be charged so im not doing that. I will try and adjust it and if that doesn't work then im just going to take it back.


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## 7sleeper (Mar 28, 2016)

Since you bought it from a big chain, any dealer you bring it to will rightfully charge you according to his rates. Service is NOT covered in warrenty. 

Further I would like to say that the saw IS NOT the problem in this thread...

Good luck!

7


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## Andyshine77 (Mar 28, 2016)

You will need to remove the limiter caps on the carb to turn the low out, as it's likely as far out as the limiters will allow.


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## redunshee (Mar 28, 2016)

I was surprised when I got a 600 P which needed a new piston. I did remove the limiter caps and richen end the Lo needle. Surprisingly the Hi needle is open about 1/8 turn. I'm told that's because the carb has some funky Hi speed setup built into the carb.


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## Rockjock (Mar 28, 2016)

7sleeper said:


> Since you bought it from a big chain, any dealer you bring it to will rightfully charge you according to his rates. Service is NOT covered in warrenty.
> 
> Further I would like to say that the saw IS NOT the problem in this thread...
> 
> ...




Actually that is incorrect. We sell and service Toro equipment. People often will buy a mower from the big box stores and then have an issue and we are paid to repair it. Your warranty is from the manufacture not from the store. So any authorized dealer can do the repair. OP what you are describing is covered under the warranty.


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## mountainlake (Mar 29, 2016)

It's good to learn how to tune a saw, will save you$$$. Andyshines vids above are good. Steve


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## 7sleeper (Mar 29, 2016)

Rockjock said:


> Actually that is incorrect. We sell and service Toro equipment. *People often will buy a mower from the big box stores and then have an issue and we are paid to repair it.* Your warranty is from the manufacture not from the store. So any authorized dealer can do the repair. OP what you are describing is covered under the warranty.


Issue means that something is not working correctly and defect. I am not sure if tuning a carb fall's into this category. As far as I understood the problem is that the saw is running, but not satisafactory. As far as I understood there is no need for warrenty on that but of course I may be mistaken. 

7


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## Lowhog (Mar 29, 2016)

This is why I buy all my equipment from a local dealer not a department store. Saws all set up at purchase time. A free extra chain and oil with a new saw. Anytime I need a carb adjustment he does it for free.


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## trab (Mar 29, 2016)

Ok i am in the middle of trying to tune this thing, im just adjusting the low right now as i believe that is all that is needed. I can now get it to idle without the choke on and it doesnt bog when giving it gas, so that a huge improvement. Im still trying to fine tune it, it seems that when i get it in a spot that is good the saw will idle fine for about 15 seconds then it will rev up higher and die. Not sure if im doing something wrong but im going to play with it some more.


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## mountainlake (Mar 29, 2016)

Did you pull the limiter caps?


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## LoveStihlQuality (Mar 29, 2016)

I don't think you need to do this and will void your warranty. Does anyone think maybe an air leak or just carb setting. 

LoveStihlQuality


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## mountainlake (Mar 29, 2016)

LoveStihlQuality said:


> I don't think you need to do this and will void your warranty. Does anyone think maybe an air leak or just carb setting.
> 
> LoveStihlQuality




Exactly what makes you think you don't need to pull the caps and tune, have you ever tuned a saw right? If tuned right there's a 99% chance you'll never need that warranty and if the caps aren't pulled and tuned right about a 75% chance you'll need the warranty. Also the caps can be pulled then tuned right and the caps put back on without trimming the tabs and you will still have the warranty. Let's give good advice on here not bs. Steve


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## old guy (Mar 29, 2016)

The symptoms he describes sounds like it's running out of fuel.

John


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## larryms290 (Mar 29, 2016)

Good advice on tuning the Carb. Always learn how & tune your own carb if you're gonna run equipment, don't depend on someone else to do it right, even if they work for a dealer doesn't mean they really know what they are doing. Things change with weather or your equipment over the years and have an ear for it and keep it tuned correctly for performance & longevity. That goes for all equipment, Lawn Mowers,weedeaters, chainsaws, whatever.


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## trab (Mar 29, 2016)

I did pull the caps off to tune. Ok the one guy was right i was out of gas previously. Added fuel and went back to tuning, got the saw running perfectly after 20 minutes of tuning. Well after i started using the saw in the upper RPM's it ran good for a minute or so then all of a sudden it started revving on its own and died. Im thinking that there is something else going on here besides tuning. All the videos i have watched nobody else's saw is acting like this one while tuning.


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## trab (Mar 29, 2016)

Theres some kind of leak at the carb, if i spray carb cleaner at the part of the carb that mates with the saw i can get it to bog down.


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## cobey (Mar 29, 2016)

trab said:


> Theres some kind of leak at the carb, if i spray carb cleaner at the part of the carb that mates with the saw i can get it to bog down.


Sounds like the carburetor is not sealed against the intake boot


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## trab (Mar 29, 2016)

Yea, i put a little rtv on the factory oring type seal. So let me let that dry and ill see what it does next.


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## larryms290 (Mar 29, 2016)

This saw is very easy to work on, Dumb question but what kind of Gas/Oil Mix are you using? If you think the carb is leaking between the carb and engine, pull carb and investigate that, should be very simple to figure out. If all is well there, I would remove the screw limiters (at least temporaily and check how many turns out they are. I would probably start with about 1 turn out on both and tune from there. I have a CS590 so if you need to know anything or want me to take video or pics, I would be glad to. Mine is only 1 month old and I've allready had alot of stuff apart playing with it.


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## mountainlake (Mar 29, 2016)

How far out did you end up on the high. Just making sure that the rev limiter isn't fooling you into thinking its rich when its actually lean. Other than that maybe a pinched fuel line or some crud got in the carb screen. Steve


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## Andyshine77 (Mar 29, 2016)

trab said:


> Yea, i put a little rtv on the factory oring type seal. So let me let that dry and ill see what it does next.



Where exactly did you use the sealant? It's been a few years sense I had the carb off my 590, but I can assure you no sealant is used or needed anywhere near the carb. Yes it sounds like you now have an air leak or fuel delivery problem.


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## Rockjock (Mar 30, 2016)

Great advice OR just take it into the dealer and have him fix it right. I think the advice is great for a used saw but gentlemen the saw is under warranty so why not just do the smart thing and have it repaired properly? Now IF it were a used saw then I would be all for the DIY method. I suppose because I am a dealer and want to make my customer happy that I feel it should be left to those being paid to make it right. It also builds a relationship with your dealer as well. 
Echo Canada pays us to adjust the saws and while we have it we check the saw out and often catch a part that is wearing or possibly about to fail. But OP it is up to you in the end. Personally 5 years of warranty to me would be a good incentive to let the dealer get it right.


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## SawTroll (Mar 31, 2016)

Rockjock said:


> Actually that is incorrect. We sell and service Toro equipment. People often will buy a mower from the big box stores and then have an issue and we are paid to repair it. Your warranty is from the manufacture not from the store. So any authorized dealer can do the repair. OP what you are describing is covered under the warranty.



Repair of manufacturing or material defects yes, service no.

Service that the seller failed to do at the point of sale could go both ways I guess, depending on brand policy. When they sell trough outlets that they _know _don't do it properly, they really should cover it under warranty.....

That said, the owner of this saw really should try to start the saw using the proper starting procedure before calling this an issue. That "choke *halvway* in" thing may have messed things up.


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## James Miller (Mar 31, 2016)

The factory tune on the echo saws are all over the place. You only hear about the ones that are set lean. I run a 590 almost every day as my fire wood saw bone stock tabs haven't been touched no problems. Picked up a 490 and had to pull tabs and open the high half turn to make it run good. I agree with other posters that sead its more then just a tuning issue.


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## Chris J. (Mar 31, 2016)

trab said:


> Hey guys just purchased this saw about 3-4 months ago. Put its first tank of gas in and go to start it up. Almost fires so i push choke in half way and the saw fires up, is reved up fairly high and seems normal. As soon as i hit the gas the saw bogs and dies. I put the choke back in the middle and it will sit and run in this spot, it is idle'ing high but will continue to run for as long as you leave it. If i hit the gas it will bog or sometimes rev up and if i keep it reved it will continue to run. But if i let the RPM's drop the saw will just start to bog badly and die eventually. Any idea's whats going on? I called echo and they told me to take it to there service store near my house, but they told me i would be charged if it is carburetor related as this is general maintenance.
> 
> *I also pulled the carb and gave it a look through and it is spotless.*



I think that some folks overlooked the above--bold & underlined by me--in the original post.


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## Chris J. (Mar 31, 2016)

trab said:


> Yea, i put a little rtv on the factory oring type seal. So let me let that dry and ill see what it does next.



And this ties into the carb being pulled.

So much for the warranty.


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## SawTroll (Mar 31, 2016)

Chris J. said:


> I think that some folks overlooked the above--bold & underlined by me--in the original post.



Guilty...


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## SawTroll (Mar 31, 2016)

trab said:


> Ok i will try and adjust the high & low needles tomorrow, i would love to take it in and have it serviced under warranty but they told me that its not something covered under the warranty and i would be charged so im not doing that. I will try and adjust it and if that doesn't work then im just going to take it back.



Did you ever try to start it, using the correct procedure, choke fully out until it fires, then all the way in?


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## Rockjock (Mar 31, 2016)

SawTroll said:


> Repair of manufacturing or material defects yes, service no.
> 
> Service that the seller failed to do at the point of sale could go both ways I guess, depending on brand policy. When they sell trough outlets that they _know _don't do it properly, they really should cover it under warranty.....
> 
> That said, the owner of this saw really should try to start the saw using the proper starting procedure before calling this an issue. That "choke *halvway* in" thing may have messed things up.



Adjustments are covered. Be it Stihl, Honda, Toro Echo...


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## SawTroll (Mar 31, 2016)

Rockjock said:


> Adjustments are covered. Be it Stihl, Honda, Toro Echo...



I can understand that some dealers are reluctant to do it for free on a box store saw though - but believe it is best for their business to do it anyway.


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## cedarshark (Mar 31, 2016)

In order to correctly diagnose this saw, it needs to be pressure and vac tested for an air leak. If the OP does not have the tools, it needs to be taken to a repair shop that does. We have seen everything from poor starting procedures to trying to tune the saw with no gas/oil in it. There is RTV somewhere in/on the carb and the carb has been disassembled and deemed spotless. The saw could be flooding and getting too much fuel from a bad needle or incorrectly adjusted metering lever. I have yet to see a new Echo that wouldnt start and run out of the box. It may be set lean but they run.


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## Rockjock (Mar 31, 2016)

SawTroll said:


> I can understand that some dealers are reluctant to do it for free on a box store saw though - but believe it is best for their business to do it anyway.



Oh it is not for free they pay us to do it.


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## LoveStihlQuality (Mar 31, 2016)

Echo pays you or customer pays you? 

LoveStihlQuality


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## Rockjock (Mar 31, 2016)

LoveStihlQuality said:


> Echo pays you or customer pays you?
> 
> LoveStihlQuality




Echo, Stihl. Toro, Honda, etc.. all pay us for adjustments


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## cedarshark (Mar 31, 2016)

I have a related question. Are new saws (all...not random) started and run before they go in the box for shipment ? It would be easy to rig a fuel supply to the carb and eliminate fuel in the tank. Reason I asked, I bought a new 590 NIB and the carb smelled of fuel, but not the tank.


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## larryms290 (Mar 31, 2016)

I don't hear the OP saying much about this so he's obviously not as concerned as some of us....LOL. I do warranty work for Ford Motor Company so I understand, if it's a covered repair then it don't matter where they bought the dadgum thing. I hate to hear people at work saying "they didn't buy it from us" who cares, that has no bearing at all on the service dept. I've had a Echo dealer owner tell me that they only make about $15 on a sale anyway. (Not sure I believe that). If you are nice and not obnoxious, you can usually get a dealer to cover something even if it's borderline. If all else fails tell Home Depot to shove that saw where it will do them the most good and give you another one. Ok... have a good day I'm going back to work on them stupid 6.7 Ford Diesels. Hate it, but that's the career I'm stuck in the last 30yrs.


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## Rexall (Jan 26, 2018)

trab said:


> I did pull the caps off to tune. Ok the one guy was right i was out of gas previously. Added fuel and went back to tuning, got the saw running perfectly after 20 minutes of tuning. Well after i started using the saw in the upper RPM's it ran good for a minute or so then all of a sudden it started revving on its own and died. Im thinking that there is something else going on here besides tuning. All the videos i have watched nobody else's saw is acting like this one while tuning.


I can tell you the problem because I delt with this exactly as you described it on mine. Bottom line is, you need a carb,,, not a kit, but a new carb. The part in the Venturi area of the throat of the carb has been damaged by ethanol, carb cleaner, or both. It is rubber and is now swollen and deformed and not functioning as it should. You can tweak the carb and sometimes get it to work for a bit and then all of the sudden while idling, the idle will rise and then die. Then it's square one again. The problem part cannot be purchased separately and a new complete carb is the only solution. The best price I could find one was about 84.00, ouch. Sad, but true, stop wasting your time and bite the bullet on a new carb.


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## James Miller (Jan 26, 2018)

Rexall said:


> I can tell you the problem because I delt with this exactly as you described it on mine. Bottom line is, you need a carb,,, not a kit, but a new carb. The part in the Venturi area of the throat of the carb has been damaged by ethanol, carb cleaner, or both. It is rubber and is now swollen and deformed and not functioning as it should. You can tweak the carb and sometimes get it to work for a bit and then all of the sudden while idling, the idle will rise and then die. Then it's square one again. The problem part cannot be purchased separately and a new complete carb is the only solution. The best price I could find one was about 84.00, ouch. Sad, but true, stop wasting your time and bite the bullet on a new carb.


Iv run E10 with Echo mix oil since mine came home and never had a problem. Saw sits for extended periods with fuel in it. Starts and cuts just fine.


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## Termite52 (Nov 5, 2020)

E-10 is the worst thing for a small engine. Use Sunoco gtx 260 unleaded ethanol free 100 octane fuel . It comes from the factory with a fuel additive in it . A 5 gal.can will last 2yrs .


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## K-techcowboy (Dec 27, 2021)

trab said:


> Hey guys just purchased this saw about 3-4 months ago. Put its first tank of gas in and go to start it up. Almost fires so i push choke in half way and the saw fires up, is reved up fairly high and seems normal. As soon as i hit the gas the saw bogs and dies. I put the choke back in the middle and it will sit and run in this spot, it is idle'ing high but will continue to run for as long as you leave it. If i hit the gas it will bog or sometimes rev up and if i keep it reved it will continue to run. But if i let the RPM's drop the saw will just start to bog badly and die eventually. Any idea's whats going on? I called echo and they told me to take it to there service store near my house, but they told me i would be charged if it is carburetor related as this is general maintenance. I also pulled the carb and gave it a look through and it is spotless.


I would of told echo to eat a **** it was still under warranty. Im guessing too lean


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## K-techcowboy (Dec 27, 2021)

7sleeper said:


> Since you bought it from a big chain, any dealer you bring it to will rightfully charge you according to his rates. Service is NOT covered in warrenty.
> 
> Further I would like to say that the saw IS NOT the problem in this thread...
> 
> ...


Not if its warranty work


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