# Pricing removals and pruning



## david1332 (May 18, 2016)

So I've been doing climbing, pruning and removals for a few months now ( not my main business but I want it to be about 25-40% of my work, I'm a landscaper but absolutely love the tree business) and I would like some tips to help me price my work a little better.

I'm having trouble giving SMART well THOUGHT OUT prices on tree trimming and removal. I still get a good amount of those jobs ( about 1/2) but I want to benite confident in my pricing. At the moment I'm using sort of a lick and stick approach based on how difficult I see the tree being. Please help me out and give me some ways to get my numbers together, thanks!!

Just some info for my tree work: I climb all trees myself, I usually have 1 or sometimes 2 ground guys with me to help with rigging. I have an echo cs-400( 18 inch), husky 338xpt( 14 inch) and a brand new Stihl 441-c with a 25 inch bar which is by far the baddest saw I've ever used . I don't have a chipper or stump grinder ( I sub that out) and I put most debris in my dual axle 6x12 ( costs me $30 to unload at my buddies yard) I've only been climbing for a few months but have all the gear I need to do it safely and have read several books and watched hundreds of videos and am pretty good with knots. I have several friends who own tree companies that help me out with advice and in a bind.


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## Pelorus (May 18, 2016)

Fwiw, pruning generally takes me longer to do, than the allotted time I figured it would take me to do it. 
The limbs seem to multiply and get larger or something.


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## Tree94 (May 18, 2016)

I think it depends on your area a lot and the competition....

but what works best for me in _MY AREA_ is usually estimating the total time the job will take (drive time included), and multiplying that by what I want to make per hr. Which is usually like 65-75$ per hr.
then I add on an extra 50$ for dump fee/gas/gatorades.. etc..

Now if im doing a huge removal over a house that's gonna require a lot of rigging (something not many people have the skill of doing)
I up that price a few hundred more dollars or so..
I also up the price a bit if there's thorns..

that's what I do..
It keeps my prices very competitive in _MY AREA_
(lots of Mexican landscapers in my area so if someone's comparing quotes, its tough to get top dollar.)


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## Tree94 (May 18, 2016)

I might add that im a small company whos equipment is all paid off.
If you are a company with 250k in loans & overhead, that might not work for you....


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## BC WetCoast (May 18, 2016)

I've seen it done many ways. 
Generally, decide on your target hourly rate and then estimate how many hours it will take you. Our target hourly rate is $90. 

If you have a bucket it will take you less time, so the bid will be lower. It evens out over time.

I've seen guys double their estimate for jobs they don't want and get them anyway.

I've seen guys only use two prices either a half day or whole day. 

The biggest loser jobs I've seen is when the salesman did it by feel. I think you need to be a little thoughtful in your approach.

I talked to one guy at an arborist conference and he would count the number of paces the groundie would have to walk per drag and then estimate the number of drags.

I would be very wary about bidding to meet your market. If you're losing money just to match the market, what's the point of being in the business. Even the most expensive companies get work, so work on your sales technique so you can justify a higher price to the customer. Then underpromise and overdeliver.


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## ATH (May 18, 2016)

It just takes time doing it to know how long it is going to take. Then you bid based on how long the job takes...kinda like the guys said above. The one slight change I'd add to what @BC Westcoast said: If you have a bucket, your hourly rate would be higher (to cover the cost of equipment) so to me your bid should be _about_ the same without or without a bucket. One takes more money but less time while the other takes more time with a lower investment. (but not total disagreement... because labor does cost more than equipment...)


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## ATH (May 18, 2016)

Onto the next thought: So....you have been learning a lot about climbing, knots, ropes, etc... But how about tree biology and proper pruning techniques? Maybe you already are good to go there - but I see a lot of people get so caught up in climbing, they seem to forget that point is to take care of a tree - and you can't do that without knowing about trees.


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## david1332 (May 18, 2016)

I've been studying A lot on proper pruning as well. I've gotten shrubs and ornamental trees down solid. Now I trying to learn how to prune larger trees like oaks. I can prune for safety no problem. I just need to learn how to Pune for aesthetics on the outer limbs( I don't have a bucket or lift)


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## Tree94 (May 18, 2016)

ATH said:


> Onto the next thought: So....you have been learning a lot about climbing, knots, ropes, etc... But how about tree biology and proper pruning techniques? Maybe you already are good to go there - but I see a lot of people get so caught up in climbing, they seem to forget that point is to take care of a tree - and you can't do that without knowing about trees.



I'm guilty about that, I need to do some more research..
Do you suggest any books or online content that would be helpful in learning about tree biology?


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## ATH (May 19, 2016)

Search "Ed Gilman". He is at University of Florida and has tons of great info online. His book "Illustrated guide to pruning" would be a good one to get.

Shigo's stuff is older...but still relevant.

ISA's Building Blocks of Arboriculture is a little more dull reading, but very important stuff. Their "treesaregood.org" website also has lots of good basic information.

I don't know what other states are like, but Ohio ISA's Tree Care Conference is very good year after year. There are agencies such as Extension and the Division of Forestry who also put on a host of programming that is very helpful. Yes, it all takes another day, but very rarely have I left feeling like it was a wasted day. You quickly figure out who really knows their sruff AND is a good speaker and target your time to where they will be for new topics.


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## david1332 (May 19, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> I've seen it done many ways.
> Generally, decide on your target hourly rate and then estimate how many hours it will take you. Our target hourly rate is $90.
> 
> If you have a bucket it will take you less time, so the bid will be lower. It evens out over time.
> ...


Is that $90/ hour/ man or just $90/hr period?
That seem low to me. Although I do typically tend to be a bit expensive, but I'm also in Jersey, and won't climb trees and risk my life for chump change


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## BC WetCoast (May 19, 2016)

$90/manhour

2 man crew -> $180/hr

That's our monthly target, so to compensate for down time, underbids etc, we usually shoot for $110/man hour.


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## david1332 (May 19, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> $90/manhour
> 
> 2 man crew -> $180/hr
> 
> That's our monthly target, so to compensate for down time, underbids etc, we usually shoot for $110/man hour.


That's not horrible then. Then you figure in dump fees, gas, etc. right?


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## Jed1124 (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> So I've been doing climbing, pruning and removals for a few months now ( not my main business but I want it to be about 25-40% of my work, I'm a landscaper but absolutely love the tree business) and I would like some tips to help me price my work a little better.
> 
> I'm having trouble giving SMART well THOUGHT OUT prices on tree trimming and removal. I still get a good amount of those jobs ( about 1/2) but I want to benite confident in my pricing. At the moment I'm using sort of a lick and stick approach based on how difficult I see the tree being. Please help me out and give me some ways to get my numbers together, thanks!!
> 
> Just some info for my tree work: I climb all trees myself, I usually have 1 or sometimes 2 ground guys with me to help with rigging. I have an echo cs-400( 18 inch), husky 338xpt( 14 inch) and a brand new Stihl 441-c with a 25 inch bar which is by far the baddest saw I've ever used . I don't have a chipper or stump grinder ( I sub that out) and I put most debris in my dual axle 6x12 ( costs me $30 to unload at my buddies yard) I've only been climbing for a few months but have all the gear I need to do it safely and have read several books and watched hundreds of videos and am pretty good with knots. I have several friends who own tree companies that help me out with advice and in a bind.


Dave, being that you are in the town that I grew up in, I can give you one really good piece of advice. I'm down there to see my folks at least 4-5 times a year and I have to say I have not seen any good pruning work at all. Topping and more topping is all I see. Any of the old school guys I know of in that town (I can't speak for all of them) are doing some really bad work. Learn how to properly prune large trees and prune them well, separating yourself from the butchers. 
Also, most folks in your town are basing who they select on price alone, so you have an up hill battle if your going to try to get the proper rate for tree care. The prices I've heard in your area are definitely on the low side.
Good luck, learn good arborculture practices, and please bring those practices to my old home town.


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## hseII (May 19, 2016)

OP,
Thank You for starting this thread.


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## david1332 (May 19, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> Dave, being that you are in the town that I grew up in, I can give you one really good piece of advice. I'm down there to see my folks at least 4-5 times a year and I have to say I have not seen any good pruning work at all. Topping and more topping is all I see. Any of the old school guys I know of in that town (I can't speak for all of them) are doing some really bad work. Learn how to properly prune large trees and prune them well, separating yourself from the butchers.
> Also, most folks in your town are basing who they select on price alone, so you have an up hill battle if your going to try to get the proper rate for tree care. The prices I've heard in your area are definitely on the low side.
> Good luck, learn good arborculture practices, and please bring those practices to my old home town.


Yeah I hear ya man!!
I get calls to remove trees all. The. Time. That have died because of overpruning and that have been topped. I get a call atleast twice a month asking me to top a tree. I explain to them right away that it's the worst thing you can do for a tree, normally I get those jobs because I show knowledge. And yeah prices are definitely being hammered down by low ballers. People that will do a $1200 dead tree near lines for $600 kill the industry price. But I still get atleast 45% of my tree calls to turn into jobs. 

How do I prune and shape the outside and canopy without a bucket or lift?


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## jefflovstrom (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I've been studying A lot on proper pruning as well. I've gotten shrubs and ornamental trees down solid. Now I trying to learn how to prune larger trees like oaks. I can prune for safety no problem. I just need to learn how to Pune for aesthetics on the outer limbs( I don't have a bucket or lift)



I do not understand your term, ' prune for aesthetics', 
Actually, I get it,,,looks great!,,pretty!,,,
You do not need a bucket or a lift,,you just need training,,
Most mature trees that do not have targets, do not need pruning other than some crown clean and structure pruning. 
Jeff,,,,,,
I may have more to say,,


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## Jed1124 (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Yeah I hear ya man!!
> I get calls to remove trees all. The. Time. That have died because of overpruning and that have been topped. I get a call atleast twice a month asking me to top a tree. I explain to them right away that it's the worst thing you can do for a tree, normally I get those jobs because I show knowledge. And yeah prices are definitely being hammered down by low ballers. People that will do a $1200 dead tree near lines for $600 kill the industry price. But I still get atleast 45% of my tree calls to turn into jobs.
> 
> How do I prune and shape the outside and canopy without a bucket or lift?


Maybe instead of jumping in head first with your own business and trying to go the route of being self taught, get a job with a good company and learn from seasoned pros. Aspen Tree Experts is right in Jackson (I know a little far) and is probably the best tree care company in the the state.
Learn from the best, then take those skills and make them your own.
On a side note, I can't believe how many companies down there actually advertise topping, like it's some kind of badge of honor.
The other issue you have to deal with is a lot of illegals with no insurance. Hard to compete with them.


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## jefflovstrom (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Yeah I hear ya man!
> How do I prune and shape the outside and canopy without a bucket or lift?



Trees have their own shape,
are you a landscaper trying to cut in to the tree biz?
What kind of spikes do you wear?
Jeff


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## david1332 (May 19, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> Maybe instead of jumping in head first with your own business and trying to go the route of being self taught, get a job with a good company and learn from seasoned pros. Aspen Tree Experts is right in Jackson (I know a little far) and is probably the best tree care company in the the state.
> Learn from the best, then take those skills and make them your own.
> On a side note, I can't believe how many companies down there actually advertise topping, like it's some kind of badge of honor.
> The other issue you have to deal with is a lot of illegals with no insurance. Hard to compete with them.


I would but I already have a decent size landscaping company, I make way too much money owning my own company to ever go back to working hourly for another company. But I still work with other companies that I trust in my area to teach me how to do complicated removals


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## david1332 (May 19, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Trees have their own shape,
> are you a landscaper trying to cut in to the tree biz?
> What kind of spikes do you wear?
> Jeff


Buckingham spikes. And well no. I just started my company ( I'm 18) and I offer both landscaping and tree services. But I LOVE tree work, which is why I am trying to learn more and make it a bigger aspect of my business. I only cut 25 lawns a week, everything else is bigger jobs, projects, removals, pruning and stuff


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## Jed1124 (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I would but I already have a decent size landscaping company, I make way too much money owning my own company to ever go back to working hourly for another company. But I still work with other companies that I trust in my area to teach me how to do complicated removals


Your 18. The worlds your oyster. Anyway, good luck, and like I said I hope you can bring some decent tree work to good old Woodbridge, NJ.


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## moondoggie (May 19, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> What kind of spikes do you wear?



Trick question


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## david1332 (May 19, 2016)

Jed1124 said:


> Your 18. The worlds your oyster. Anyway, good luck, and like I said I hope you can bring some decent tree work to good old Woodbridge, NJ.


Yeah I'll be making some pearls out of it! 
Any tips though for a new guy looking for insight?


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## Jed1124 (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Yeah I'll be making some pearls out of it!
> Any tips though for a new guy looking for insight?


I got a good tip for ya and might be a money maker too. Convince the town that planting all those god forsaken bradford pears along the streets was a bad idea and get the contract to cut them all down. You'll be lining your pockets all the while doing a service to humanity and tree lovers worldwide.


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## jefflovstrom (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Buckingham spikes. And well no. I just started my company ( I'm 18) and I offer both landscaping and tree services. But I LOVE tree work, which is why I am trying to learn more and make it a bigger aspect of my business. I only cut 25 lawns a week, everything else is bigger jobs, projects, removals, pruning and stuff



If you don't go to work with a mentor at a good company, you are dumber than I thought when I first read your post, 
Good luck,,Jeff


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## moondoggie (May 19, 2016)

Working with someone with experience for some time (years) is the best advise I have heard. Reading and experiencing things are completely different most of the time. Reading how to lower limbs over a house and landscaping is much different than actually doing it. 
Word of mouth goes both ways.... Learn from the best around your area if possible.


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## moondoggie (May 19, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Yeah I'll be making some pearls out of it!
> Any tips though for a new guy looking for insight?


Dont prune in spikes. Unprofessional. Bad word of mouth........


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## david1332 (May 20, 2016)

moondoggie said:


> Dont prune in spikes. Unprofessional. Bad word of mouth........


I don't prune in spikes? I use ropes bro. And I use my mentor when I have to rig over houses and structures and such. I'm not going to do something that would potentially cause damage due to my inexperience


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## Tree94 (May 20, 2016)

post a pic of your truck and trailer
& tree equipment


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## mckeetree (May 21, 2016)

In my ten years as a member here I have learned 75% of us are working for peanuts.


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## jefflovstrom (May 21, 2016)

mckeetree said:


> In my ten years as a member here I have learned 75% of us are working for peanuts.



Maybe, but I do ok,,,,
Jeff


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

Tree94 said:


> post a pic of your truck and trailer
> & tree equipment





Tree94 said:


> post a pic of your truck and trailer
> & tree equipment


Will do!


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## mckeetree (May 22, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe, but I do ok,,,,
> Jeff



Well, I shouldn't complain. I'm doing ok. When I was hiring a couple months back there was a guy on here, and I won't mention his name but he is definitely not a newbie, that told me in a PM when we were discussing his possible relocation and employment with our company that his business "tries" to get $800 a day for a climber, a chip truck and chipper, a stump grinder, an F450 dumptruck, a mini and three ground men. Not subbing out...just straight his charge for the job. That's sad and pitiful. 
And ___________, when you read this no offense...none whatsoever. I know our deal didn't work out but I didn't post this as a put down. Just an illustration of my point about the peanuts comment. And, where this individual is geographically located, he knows a couple other posters on here that...well, let's just say they are stretching things a little.


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

mckeetree said:


> Well, I shouldn't complain. I'm doing ok. When I was hiring a couple months back there was a guy on here, and I won't mention his name but he is definitely not a newbie, that told me in a PM when we were discussing his possible relocation and employment with our company that his business "tries" to get $800 a day for a climber, a chip truck and chipper, a stump grinder, an F450 dumptruck, a mini and three ground men. Not subbing out...just straight his charge for the job. That's sad and pitiful.
> And ___________, when you read this no offense...none whatsoever. I know our deal didn't work out but I didn't post this as a put down. Just an illustration of my point about the peanuts comment. And, where this individual is geographically located, he knows a couple other posters on here that...well, let's just say they are stretching things a little.


That's insane man. I don't understand how you run a business off of $800/ day for that much manpower/ equipment


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## mckeetree (May 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> That's insane man. I don't understand how you run a business off of $800/ day for that much manpower/ equipment



Exactly. But he says he does and is and has been for ten years. He claims it's competition in his area.


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## lone wolf (May 22, 2016)

mckeetree said:


> Exactly. But he says he does and is and has been for ten years. He claims it's competition in his area.


He is more than likely right about competition. If you have a hundred of them in a 20 mile range I can assure you the prices will get beat down. There are a few around here that will work for that and less. Nothing pisses me off more than a huge tree in a back yard that some idiot prices at like 700.00 when it should be 1500.00 .


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## DR. P. Proteus (May 22, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> If you don't go to work with a mentor at a good company, you are dumber than I thought when I first read your post,
> Good luck,,Jeff



I think I am finally gonna swallow that bullet I have all picked out.

You know my sentiments on subjects like this.

Subjects like: Hi, my name is Mike, I am 18 and have my own business! How do you do it?


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

lone wolf said:


> He is more than likely right about competition. If you have a hundred of them in a 20 mile range I can assure you the prices will get beat down. There are a few around here that will work for that and less. Nothing pisses me off more than a huge tree in a back yard that some idiot prices at like 700.00 when it should be 1500.00 .


You're telling me! Just last week I bid a tree ( 1/2 dead and surrounded by a vinyl fence and near lines and in the wayyyy back of a guys yard) I tell him $1200 to talk it down to where he wants ( to about 18 ft) and I call him back the next day to see what's up. He tells me he hired Pedro Lowballer who is doing it for $600 with a bucket! 

Funny thing is I drive by a few days later on my way to another quote and realize his fence is missing a few more panels than before.... Beware of who you hire! 

Honestly I don't mind though. The day after that I sold a $3000 job to remove a big 80ft oak. My phone never stops ringing so it doesn't matter to me!


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I think I am finally gonna swallow that bullet I have all picked out.
> 
> You know my sentiments on subjects like this.
> 
> Subjects like: Hi, my name is Mike, I am 18 and have my own business! How do you do it?


I just wanted some advice man, nothing wrong with that.


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## lone wolf (May 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> You're telling me! Just last week I bid a tree ( 1/2 dead and surrounded by a vinyl fence and near lines and in the wayyyy back of a guys yard) I tell him $1200 to talk it down to where he wants ( to about 18 ft) and I call him back the next day to see what's up. He tells me he hired Pedro Lowballer who is doing it for $600 with a bucket!
> 
> Funny thing is I drive by a few days later on my way to another quote and realize his fence is missing a few more panels than before.... Beware of who you hire!
> 
> Honestly I don't mind though. The day after that I sold a $3000 job to remove a big 80ft oak. My phone never stops ringing so it doesn't matter to me!


Even funnier, I just looked at one an hour ago, 11oo tree someone said that they thought I would do it for 700.00 , I said that's pure ridiculousness!


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## DR. P. Proteus (May 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I just wanted some advice man, nothing wrong with that.



If you say so it must be true.


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## jefflovstrom (May 22, 2016)

I would never ask someone what to charge,,,dumb,,,,
Jeff


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## DR. P. Proteus (May 22, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> I would never ask someone what to charge,,,dumb,,,,
> Jeff



Its said that there is no such thing as stupid question. I don't think that statement is true.


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Its said that there is no such thing as stupid question. I don't think that statement is true.


I'm not looking for exact numbers, THAT is stupid. Just some tips to help figure out overhead, how long something will take, etc.


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## ATH (May 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> ......
> 
> Honestly I don't mind though. The day after that I sold a $3000 job to remove a big 80ft oak. My phone never stops ringing so it doesn't matter to me!


Yep. That is the best attitude to have. Do something to make yourself worth it! (I know...some markets are really flooded with really low priced competition. I still believe if you find a niche in those markets there is room for success!


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## jefflovstrom (May 22, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I'm not looking for exact numbers, THAT is stupid. Just some tips to help figure out overhead, how long something will take, etc.



OK, here are some tip's,,
figure out your overhead and how long something will take you,,,
Jeff


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

ATH said:


> Yep. That is the best attitude to have. Do something to make yourself worth it! (I know...some markets are really flooded with really low priced competition. I still believe if you find a niche in those markets there is room for success!


That's how I like to look at it.


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## no tree to big (May 22, 2016)

Now here's a question if you are a crappy climber and it takes you twice as long to cut down a tree do you charge double? Or do you work for less per hour? Now if you are as graceful as a squirrel and it takes you half tge time of an average guy do u focus on your hourly rate or the tree itself? Like some trees are huge but with proper gear take less then 2 hrs so is that a 1000 dollar tree if u are shooting for 100 man/hr plus drive time? Or do you price it as a 2000 dollar tree because it would take a guy with out a bucket or crane all day of back breaking work? 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## david1332 (May 22, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> Now here's a question if you are a crappy climber and it takes you twice as long to cut down a tree do you charge double? Or do you work for less per hour? Now if you are as graceful as a squirrel and it takes you half tge time of an average guy do u focus on your hourly rate or the tree itself? Like some trees are huge but with proper gear take less then 2 hrs so is that a 1000 dollar tree if u are shooting for 100 man/hr plus drive time? Or do you price it as a 2000 dollar tree because it would take a guy with out a bucket or crane all day of back breaking work?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


If you're more efficient you actually charge more so you can make what you need to make in a day. You can be a little cheaper if you like but not by a crazy amount. I just don't understand how you can use a crane or a bucket+ crew+ insurance etc. for $600 on a job that will still take atleast a 1/2 day with a bucket.


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## mckeetree (May 23, 2016)

The longer it goes the weirder it gets.


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## jefflovstrom (May 23, 2016)

mckeetree said:


> The longer it goes the weirder it gets.




Jeff


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## Griff93 (Jun 14, 2016)

Unfortunately sometimes it's what the market will bear. Pricing according to your costs and overhead is a nice idea but somewhat unrealistic depending on where you are located. I'm not the cheapest guy around but I'm also not the most expensive either. I regularly loose out based on price. At some point, not getting work becomes a problem. Our market is flooded. There's 112 tree services in a 20 mile area. There's basically no enforcement of following the rules. I know of multiple tree services that don't even have a chipper because their mode of operation is to dump illegal. It's tough to get good paying work with that kind of stuff going on.


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## david1332 (Jun 14, 2016)

Griff93 said:


> Unfortunately sometimes it's what the market will bear. Pricing according to your costs and overhead is a nice idea but somewhat unrealistic depending on where you are located. I'm not the cheapest guy around but I'm also not the most expensive either. I regularly loose out based on price. At some point, not getting work becomes a problem. Our market is flooded. There's 112 tree services in a 20 mile area. There's basically no enforcement of following the rules. I know of multiple tree services that don't even have a chipper because their mode of operation is to dump illegal. It's tough to get good paying work with that kind of stuff going on.[/QUOTE
> Why would you stay in the industry if you can't support yourself then?


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## crotchclimber (Jun 14, 2016)

david1332 said:


> How do I prune and shape the outside and canopy without a bucket or lift?


Climb with a pole pruner. Learning to prune tips from inside the tree to improve shape or thin is usually the most difficult skill to learn for new climbers.


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## david1332 (Jun 14, 2016)

Will do!


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## Griff93 (Jun 14, 2016)

I'm able to support myself but not to the extent that I should for the amount of work we do. I'm not interested in working for peanuts forever. I have a second business that is taking off. I think my tree work days are getting numbered.


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## david1332 (Jun 15, 2016)

Griff93 said:


> I'm able to support myself but not to the extent that I should for the amount of work we do. I'm not interested in working for peanuts forever. I have a second business that is taking off. I think my tree work days are getting numbered.


Let me know when you're done and I might have a look at some equipment for a deal


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## MSgtBob66 (Jun 16, 2016)

David,
Once again, don't listen to the pr!cks on this forum tha give you sh!t. Go at it smart, pay for your equipment with cash until you figure out what to finance, and keep asking questions. No question is dumb, no matter what the salty veterans say. Sounds like you are approaching jobs safely, and make that your number 1 priority. 2 should be good value for the customer, and oftentimes that means educating them. Keep learning trees. I stopped the tree removals because I'm beat up. But I know root systems and keep learning about them because I wreck them. You are young and can learn a little about a lot, or a lot about a little. Your choice, but keep learning, be smart about your money, and you'll do fine.

Bob


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 8, 2016)

MSgtBob66 said:


> David,
> Once again, don't listen to the pr!cks on this forum tha give you sh!t. Go at it smart, pay for your equipment with cash until you figure out what to finance, and keep asking questions. No question is dumb, no matter what the salty veterans say. Sounds like you are approaching jobs safely, and make that your number 1 priority. 2 should be good value for the customer, and oftentimes that means educating them. Keep learning trees. I stopped the tree removals because I'm beat up. But I know root systems and keep learning about them because I wreck them. You are young and can learn a little about a lot, or a lot about a little. Your choice, but keep learning, be smart about your money, and you'll do fine.
> 
> Bob



Who are the 'pricks'?
Do you have more experience than these so-called 'pricks'?
What are your credentials?
I think David can handle straight talk, but you can not.

Jeff,,


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 8, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Who are the 'pricks'?
> Do you have more experience than these so-called 'pricks'?
> What are your credentials?
> I think David can handle straight talk, but you can not.
> ...



Not you Jeffrey, you're a bully,[emoji1] How are ya Jeff?


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## david1332 (Jul 8, 2016)

I don't mind the criticism haha. It's helpful most times.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 8, 2016)

And now we are the bad guys because we won't tell you how much you should be


david1332 said:


> I don't mind the criticism haha. It's helpful most times.



Some people find it insulting to be asked the question you asked. Why do you think that is?


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## david1332 (Jul 9, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> And now we are the bad guys because we won't tell you how much you should be
> 
> 
> Some people find it insulting to be asked the question you asked. Why do you think that is?


I'm not saying you're bad? 

I just wanted to know how to figure out my overhead so I can figure out an hourly rate and multiply it by how long it's going to take to do the job+ dump, gas, oil, chains, tolls, etc.


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 9, 2016)

To figure out your costs:
- take your yearly fixed expenses ie insurance, business licences, association memberships etc and divide by your estimate hours worked each year
- take your monthly fixed expenses ie rent, leases, equipment payments etc and divide by the estimated hours worked each year
- figure out a replacement cost for your big equipment (depreciation) ie cost of new equipment divided over 7 years 
- figure out a hourly cost for small equipment replacement eg $5000/yr divided by number of hours worked per year
- figure out variable costs per hour, labour, taxes, fuel, maintenance

In case you don't know, fixed costs are those you have to pay regardless of how much (if any) you work ie once you've paid your yearly insurance premium, it won't change regardless of the number of hours you work. Variable costs, as the name implies, will vary according to the amount you work, ie the more labour you use, the higher your labour cost will be. 

Add all the costs up should give you an approximate rate needed to stay in business. Then add profit and risk on top of that.

Most places, if they calculate it honestly, will be around $75-100/man hour. If you are going to cheat, it's going to be in your depreciation allowance for equipment replacement.


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