# Apprentices



## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I think the cost factor is what scares most or so I've been told.


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## echoshawn (Apr 10, 2013)

Even though I'd be a bit old to apprentice, I'd jump at that opportunity.
Apprenticeship programs seem to be almost non-existent, or at least at such a low level that they're hard to come by or get into. 
The ones that are around seem to be for technology trades, not "real" working trades.
Until they create a timbco that can work on a cliff face, there will always need to be skilled fellers, and they are getting more rare by the day. Too many of the younger generation have no interest in getting out of cell range and getting dirty.
Hell, I've become just as bad of a technology addict... I sometimes need to go way up in the mountains, out of service area, just to go thru technology withdrawl enough to get my head screwed back on straight.


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## twochains (Apr 10, 2013)

It's a noble idea...however, insurance companies don't seem to want anyone running a chainsaw. As far as the gubment...I don't think they give two ####s enough to "help" in any way...unless "they" are get'n some money out of the deal. The gubment seems like they only want to spawn nurses and such...or hand out disability, food stamps, and free phones. Yeah for Obamanomics! :msp_rolleyes:

ps. sorry if that seems brash...I'm fricken wore out


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## wowzers (Apr 11, 2013)

Where I worked all the fallers came up through the rigging and learned to cut along the way. Pretty much non existant for someone to start falling right out the gate.


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

wowzers said:


> Pretty much non existant for someone to start falling right out the gate.



I did.


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## wowzers (Apr 11, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I did.



Did you have a family connection at the company? I'm sure it has happened but your chances as an 18-19 year old green kid to go falling for a line machine are not very good.


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

wowzers said:


> Did you have a family connection at the company? I'm sure it has happened but your chances as an 18-19 year old green kid to go falling for a line machine are not very good.



Yes I did have a family connection and it wouldn't have mattered if I couldn't have cut it.
You are correct, chances are non-existant for most.


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2013)

wowzers said:


> Where I worked all the fallers came up through the rigging and learned to cut along the way. Pretty much non existant for someone to start falling right out the gate.



Same here. Plus, most of the ones with family connections were told to work in the rigging so they'd know how important it is to do *a proper lay for the yarder*.

Templar, most of the falling here is done on steep ground. The yarding system to be used, is usually a skyline. A faller may know how to get the trees on the ground safely, but they've really got to add putting trees on the ground in a pattern so efficient and safe yarding can be done. Read on the cable yarding thread how one faller, in one day, messed things up so that setting did more damage than all the others combined.

In thinnings, before falling even starts, the skyline corridors are flagged in so the fallers know which way the logs go. You just don't go out and fall trees any which way.


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> if the mods see this please delete my profile thanks ..........



No, not going to do it. Stick around. Give this place, and yourself, a chance.

People here don't always agree with each other but that doesn't mean that anybody is causing anybody else any grief. You're doing fine. Just learn to roll with the punches a little...just like in the woods.

There's some good people here, especially in the F&L threads. If our methods and terminology and the way we express ourselves doesn't always seem clear that's not a major issue. 

We can usually answer any questions you have...maybe not in the most tactful way but the answers will be honest and based on real world experience. None of us went to charm school...although maybe some of us _should_ have. 

It's all about communication. Some times we're not real good at it. But we honestly try.


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## magictoad (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> I am well aware of skylines and know how to lay to a pattern I am not in the big guy league but I am no yahoo. I have falled timber stateside (not the giants that the other guys over there have) I have cut in europe too.
> 
> 
> I wish you could see the hill right behind where I live at the mo (where I was taught) so I know about steep ground.
> ...



Come on Mr templar, slowp was not having a go at you, if you look at post 10 you did come across like you were a bit of a novice and slowp just pointed out what can go wrong if the pattern is laid wrong, I do not think he was having a dig at you.


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

'Toad, slowp is wimminfolk.

Temp, you need chased with a Lochaber?


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## magictoad (Apr 11, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> 'Toad, slowp is wimminfolk.
> 
> Temp, you need chased with a Lochaber?




You mean he is a her :msp_ohmy:


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

magictoad said:


> You mean he is a her :msp_ohmy:



100%


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I wished I had some pointers today as I split a nice veneer red oak log today. The tree went up 40' then crotched out every which way. I did my face cut bored out the center so as not to pull out the center. Then started my back cut and it went right where I wanted it to. but that crotch broke and split the top 20 feet of a veneer log well at least a grade 1 saw log clear on 3 sides. Split perfectly in 2!!!!! I wanted to set myself on fire then pull out my finger nails then clip off my fingers whilst on fire. But hey crap happens live and learn. I found out that the GOL classes here only teach safety and fundamentals of falling. So it would be cool to learn from some with more experience.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

Ok for the dimwitted among us .... what the heck is lochaber ?


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

Yeah I just looked it up on google.


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> I am well aware of skylines and know how to lay to a pattern I am not in the big guy league but I am no yahoo. I have falled timber stateside (not the giants that the other guys over there have) I have cut in europe too.
> 
> 
> I wish you could see the hill right behind where I live at the mo (where I was taught) so I know about steep ground.
> ...




Good heavens man! If I were chewing you out, or mad, I'd be much worse. I highlighted what I did because I know not of your experience, or others, who are on here and it is an important thing to remember. Excuse the typing because my computer keeps flashing that Windlows Explorer has stopped working and then Windows Explorer has restarted and blocking my screen. Virus?

Anyway, no harm was meant but please be of thicker skin. There is so much talk of just getting trees on the ground and yarding what is on the ground is seldom discussed. 

Now, do I have a computer virus??? It is certainly maddening.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

You most likely have a bug


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Ok for the dimwitted among us .... what the heck is lochaber ?



It is a pointy, choppy thing on a stick, used as a can opener on English lords.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> It is a pointy, choppy thing on a stick, used as a can opener on English lords.



Yes lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

Lochaber axe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this critter


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

Sir I google EVERYTHING lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> or a halbeard all would come in handy in your castle burning lol........but if your wanting to use them on me then hmmmmm I kinda might have to ..........run



No way. Being who you are. You have to have some trick up your sleeve lol. throw a wedge at em lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I carry an estwing hatchet when Im cutting to drive wedges and to whittle out my on occasion stuck saw lol. It throws very nicely. sticks usually 4 out of 5 times lol


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> no that would be a boideag (dirk) lol me thinks you maybe thinking of a clae mhor



A lochaber is a type of halberd. I have a good grasp of what pointy things are, after all I am a descendant of Eanruig Mor Mac Righ Neachtan.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> Nah sgian dubh the Highlanders secret



Please speak english lol I get around a group of beards (amish) and they start with that jibber jabber I say Hey guys . ..please speak english lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I think I have scot and english descent. Ranney and Rexford


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

I am Randal Keith MacKendrick.
You not a Campbell are you?
Sorry, missed the earlier post, I'm thinking not, forgive the insult.


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## OlympicYJ (Apr 11, 2013)

I forget the spelling but have some Killough, Kello, Keyloch.... lots of different spellings I don't know which is correct when the family was still in Scotland. From Scotland to Northern Ireland and then on to the States in the late 1680's I want to say. Ancestral home is still standing in Ireland, but no longer in the family if I remember correctly.

Kalloch too...


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## RandyMac (Apr 11, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> I forget the spelling but have some Killough, Kello, Keyloch.... lots of different spellings I don't know which is correct when the family was still in Scotland. From Scotland to Northern Ireland and then on to the States in the late 1680's I want to say. Ancestral home is still standing in Ireland, but no longer in the family if I remember correctly.



My family took a similar route, arriving here in the 1630s. Story goes they hopped off the boat, chopped down trees, killed savages and set fires.

Templar, we could be kin.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I have been working on my family history here and there but heres a jist of the name anyway Ranney Surname History My AUnt has the family tree going back to a Thomas Ranney


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

Im a history geek so I find all of this to be fascinating lol Any way you guys have a good afternoon on the left coast and a good morning across the pond. I have to go straighten out my little ones lol.


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## OlympicYJ (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> Keiloch is a place near Braemar .....the lough spelling is Irish it means Loch there



Thanks for clearing that up! I think I had read something similar in the past about the lough loch spelling differences. I think the branch that I'm directly related to came in through North Carolina actually. I believe it was my mothers grandmother that was a Killough.

Did some digging the last few minutes. Looks like I would be part of the Donald clan as MacKelloch could also be as a Killough.

Hey Randy looks like were long lost relatives lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I have an aunt from scotland . She was born and raised in glasgow. Her kin comes here about every ten years. They are a hoot lol. I will have to ask her what her maiden name is. She still has the accent lol. My oil sales guy is from scotland and he lost his accent.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

No I think not lol. She used to watch me when I was little. She would read stories I cant remember not a one of them but I do remember it was what her mother read to her when she was a child. I also remember her temper which she still has lol.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> As this a logging forum tree is craobh wood is fiodh



Someday you will have to give pronunciations lol The girl I knew from glasgow her last name was McCrory and she called her house a "flat"


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2013)

MacNeil here. Or so I'm told.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

Are scottish and irish cultures in anyway related?


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

What happened to 2nd or 3 rd page becomes an offtopic thread lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I dont want to talk about how I split an oak veneer log today lol


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

I SOB'd a lot lol My brother inlaw was there to today, and I told him "this is what you DO NOT do" lol


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2013)

View attachment 289846
View attachment 289847


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## northmanlogging (Apr 11, 2013)

templar said:


> Yes the cultures are we are all Gaels The Scots are descended from the Scotti which came from Ireland the picts are the true natives lol there is another Gael to the Manx and before ya ask the welsh are Celts ........Scotland is Alba and the Highlands is Na Gaidhealtachd
> 
> 
> Cheri an drasda thi mi maireach sibh



I know just enough Irish to understand very little of that _Failta go geailge, slainte,_ in some parts of western Ireland you'll see _ an gaeltacht_ and then the next 30km will make absolutely no sense....


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## RandyMac (Apr 12, 2013)

templar said:


> lol well it make no sense tome either I can only understand the jist of Irish Gaelic I think it means welcome to the Gaeldom lol in our lang it would be said Failte na Gaidhealtachd slainte is cheers or good health ie slainte mhath ......good health now literally
> 
> 
> there are 3 types of Scots Gaelic .....Classical ........proper .....and modern .........The first and last I don't speak lol as the first is really only used in literature .....the last the powers that be decided to invent so kids could count decimal and metric and it confuses me easiest to think of I count eg 70 is three twenties and ten (tri fichead 's deich) where now they got a word for it
> ...



and put a wee drop of oil on your arm pit blade.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## RandyMac (Apr 12, 2013)

templar said:


> Typing was never my strong point I missed that class at school



sgian dubhs are better without patina


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## RandyMac (Apr 12, 2013)

I have a dirk blade in damascus steel, I have some curly Redwood for the handle. My brother (rip) went about, festooned with weapons of all types, in his business is was required. I also went armed, but not so elaborately. Old habits are hard to overcome, I am some what more restrained these days and often leave the heavy revolvers at home.


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## RandyMac (Apr 12, 2013)

We have plenty of mist here, being next to a cold, rocky shore. Hit and dodge, I was never one for standing like a Redcoat.

Small hatchets have their uses as well, I chased down a panther with nothing but one.


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## RandyMac (Apr 12, 2013)

Aye, the cat got the worst of it. I have that bit of insanity in my neverending ramble of a book.


Back to the subject, you pointed out the lack of reasonable timber for specialized training. There is a fair amount of old growth still left, in the right area, a special use permit might float, but would not be cost effective. Now second growth Redwoods can be on the hefty side and there is vast amounts of it.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 12, 2013)

It may be wishful thinking, but I see mechanization slowing or even shrinking as fuel prices go up. It could be that hand falling is still going to be necessary for some time to come. Profit margins are so close for everyone that pushing fuel prices up a dollar or two could put a whole bunch of the mechanized guys out of business.


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## OlympicYJ (Apr 12, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> It may be wishful thinking, but I see mechanization slowing or even shrinking as fuel prices go up. It could be that hand falling is still going to be necessary for some time to come. Profit margins are so close for everyone that pushing fuel prices up a dollar or two could put a whole bunch of the mechanized guys out of business.



Yeah but take into count L & I costs and such. It will drive supply down and once demand exceeds supply raw log prices are going to go up. Also it's estimated that softwood dimensional lumber prices are going to increase by 6.5 or 6.7% over the next 7 years.This is due to the drop in the annual British Columbia harvest from around 9 million cubic meters to around 50 to 60 million cubic meters, Beetle kill salvage coming to a close. Also it's predicted that the Chinese demand is going to increase. What does this mean? The super cheap wood from Canada is coming to a close and the slack is going to have to be taken up by the NW U.S. This is all predicated that our economy doesn't tank as it would wipe out China's and the rest of the world; or that hyperinflation doesn't rear it's head. Basically if the margins get too small you'll see inflation after a stagnation period but the margins will probably never be huge like they were. Not to delve too deep but the physical size of the timber aided in that not to mention less government regulation.

Wes


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