# Looking to start a tree service.



## Logginboy94 (Aug 10, 2015)

My name's Mike I'm from Johnstown PA im looking to start a tree service in Pittsburgh I've got experience running saws and falling timber of all sizes but I know this whole climbing thing is going to be new to me so I'd like to have some pointers and tips from some experienced arborists of what I need from square #1 to start a tree company in the future.


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## Groundman One (Aug 10, 2015)

Logginboy94 said:


> My name's Mike I'm from Johnstown PA im looking to start a tree service in Pittsburgh I've got experience running saws and falling timber of all sizes but I know this whole climbing thing is going to be new to me so I'd like to have some pointers and tips from some experienced arborists of what I need from square #1 to start a tree company in the future.


 
#1 - Low overhead.

#2 - Low overhead.

#3 - Low overhead.

Don't get in debt with too much fancy new equipment until you are a 1001% sure you can cover the bills even if work sucks for a few months. Seen people get too big and too fancy too fast, not keeping in mind that come winter work drops off 75% but the monthly bills remain at 100%.


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## gorman (Aug 10, 2015)

75% damn!? I'd be lucky to get a single call after January for anything other than wood.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 10, 2015)

Like what kind of equipment should I put at the top of my list to get and that sort of thing?


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## ropensaddle (Aug 11, 2015)

Logginboy94 said:


> Like what kind of equipment should I put at the top of my list to get and that sort of thing?


The building blocks of arboriculture, The climbers companion, Arboriculture integrated management of landscape trees shrubs and vines, Read those if your serious about tree work its a good foundation. I have to agree low overhead don't buy a bunch of shinny stuff learn the trade and make it feel like pulling teeth to buy anything. I bought a bunch of stuff but had 30 years in trees and still have almost lost the farm over it! 20 years ago might have worked but too many start ups have messed up the markets here and likely almost everywhere. I miss the days when it was just me my trailer and truck and climb gear and I am almost back to it now. The best way is to work as climber trainee at a reputable company and learn the ins and outs and remember you wont be a great climber for five years. It takes that long to be a journeyman in most trades and this one is no exception. One difference learning a trade like fencing on your own wont kill you like this trade!


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## Groundman One (Aug 11, 2015)

gorman said:


> 75% damn!? I'd be lucky to get a single call after January for anything other than wood.


 
I'm trying to be optimistic.


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## acer-kid (Aug 11, 2015)

We try to book work for the winter when it's not so much of a rush issue with customers. Doesn't happen often.. But it really helps in the slow months to have some stuff on the back burner.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 11, 2015)

Thanks guys this is good info


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 11, 2015)

If you are going to work in the city, and not rural areas, you need to learn the business. It's more than just chainsaws and falling. I would suggest you get a job as a groundie somewhere and learn how the business works. You can learn how jobs are bids, (not just the $ but what to look for), how jobs are done, equipment requirements (both large and small equipment), how debris is dealt with and how you get paid. 

Once you have been on jobs for a while, you can decide whether you want to concentrate on removals (requiring a higher investment in equipment and skill, but a lower investment in knowledge) or pruning/tree care (requiring more knowledge but less equipment). 

Once you are working for someone, you may decide to do side jobs on weekends. This will teach you how to deal with customers and bid jobs. 

It's no longer a business/profession you can just throw your shingle up and people will come to you. In most cities you will be fighting lots of established competition.

Good luck.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 11, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> If you are going to work in the city, and not rural areas, you need to learn the business. It's more than just chainsaws and falling. I would suggest you get a job as a groundie somewhere and learn how the business works. You can learn how jobs are bids, (not just the $ but what to look for), how jobs are done, equipment requirements (both large and small equipment), how debris is dealt with and how you get paid.
> 
> Once you have been on jobs for a while, you can decide whether you want to concentrate on removals (requiring a higher investment in equipment and skill, but a lower investment in knowledge) or pruning/tree care (requiring more knowledge but less equipment).
> 
> ...



You said it well,
Jeff
.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 11, 2015)

Thank you all very much means alot!


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## Pud (Aug 12, 2015)

Polite , well spoken , dont think you already know everything , ask good questions and listen to advice ... 
Wanna job over hear ?


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 12, 2015)

Were?


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## acer-kid (Aug 12, 2015)

Australia. lol


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 12, 2015)

That would be cool but that's to far away I'm in the USA hahaha


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## Zale (Aug 13, 2015)

If you are into pain and suffering, welcome.


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## pro94lt (Aug 13, 2015)

Do you drink?


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 14, 2015)

Oh I know all about the pain and suffering haha and yes I do should I prepare to drink more haha!?


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## mckeetree (Aug 15, 2015)

Very few "new" tree services are going to make it. The industry has changed 180 degrees from when I started out on my own in January of 1986. I've got two guys right now that would like nothing more than to leave my ass and go out on their own. They can't make it on their own and the oldest of the two knows that. I told him the last time he tried it in 2008 if he ever did that again he is NOT coming back. The other one will probably give it a try if not this year then next year. I sorta feel it coming. Of course he won't be able to make it on his own and I'm not letting him come back. The Hell of it is either one of those two are more of a candidate to give it a try than the guys that post on here "Looking to start a tree service."


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 15, 2015)

Look here boss man I figured there'd be some folks on here acting like adults if I wanted to be chewed up and spit out I'd sit on my ass and collect unemployment and apply for welfare there are statistics that show there's money to be made in this business you ain't talking to a little ground hog picking up sticks I've ran a logging company before Im gunna give this my best shot haha I ain't like them guys you got that won't make it haha they mustn't be hard workers that's all.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 16, 2015)

I think Treestuff is now stocking a skin thickener, might want to make that your first purchase.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

Oh I've got extremely thick skin but I won't sit here and be told I'm like the last 900,000 ppl I've worked the 17hr days 7 days a week for no cause for nothing I've been there done it and I figured I would get some advice from some seasoned adults, its like a bunch of child's play on here, I'm not here to play around im serious and people are just like you ain't got what it takes. BULL! A person can do whatever they want if they work hard enough for it. I'm not your average ordinary logger dude I've done it sweat it and bled it I know what work is haha


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 16, 2015)

So go get hired and earn your spurs. You're not going to learn to climb on the internet, and logging has very little to do with arboriculture.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

This isn't a who's tougher match I will learn the ropes I just got hooked up with a local guy who's been climbing since 14 and he's 68 now so I oghta learn something hopefully. Y'all don't understand I want a tree business as bad as you'd want to breath if I shoved your head under water!


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 16, 2015)

So go start a tree business. You still haven't said why. If it's for the money, yeah, were all laughing at you.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

Can't make any money logging I can make some doing this I can't put chainsaws down I've tried 6 times and I still find myself with one in hand after a while


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

I love cuttin trees and I love heights so what better way?


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 16, 2015)

So go pay your dues. Find a good reputable tree company in your area and get hired on. Do your apprenticeship. Starting a business when you know nothing about it is a recipe for failure, is all were saying.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

I'm going to learn about it I'm gunna takebthe righful steps to become an arborist you'll see haha I'll be somethin some day youll see


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

I'm going to learn about it I'm gunna takebthe righful steps to become an arborist you'll see haha I'll be somethin some day youll see


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

I'm going to learn about it I'm gunna takebthe righful steps to become an arborist you'll see haha I'll be somethin some day youll see


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## Blakesmaster (Aug 16, 2015)

These threads are always good for a chuckle when I'm bored. I think the dude is qualified. I mean, he did run a logging business that didn't make any money. Seems like starting a tree business would be the most logical next step.


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## tree MDS (Aug 16, 2015)

Well he does sound stupid enough..


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## ropensaddle (Aug 16, 2015)

Logginboy94 said:


> I'm going to learn about it I'm gunna takebthe righful steps to become an arborist you'll see haha I'll be somethin some day youll see


So you read the books mentioned yet ?


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## mckeetree (Aug 16, 2015)

Blakesmaster said:


> These threads are always good for a chuckle when I'm bored. I think the dude is qualified. I mean, he did run a logging business that didn't make any money. Seems like starting a tree business would be the most logical next step.



Stupid enough...check
Post haha a lot...check
Ran a logging company that didn't make any money...check.

Yep, I'd say starting a tree service would be next step. It just makes sense.


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## Pud (Aug 16, 2015)

BA ?


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 16, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I think Treestuff is now stocking a skin thickener, might want to make that your first purchase.


Free shipping on man suits too?


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

Ok since your all gods gift to tree trimming why can't it be done why should I not pusre this feat maybe I should have asked that first


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 16, 2015)

It can be done, it has been done, but you can't skip steps. This business has to be learned, literally, from the ground up. Liking heights and chainsaws is hardly a good start to a residential tree service. Loving trees is a much better start. And forget about the money. 
Look at your original post. You basically said, "Hey guys, I know you've spent years mastering your trade, but I just want to skip all that, what should I buy?" You've shown no respect for us or this industry at all.
So I pose this question for you: why should we waste our time giving you advice when you have no respect for us or, for that matter our entire industry anyway?


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## acer-kid (Aug 16, 2015)

'Cause it sucks.
No, seriously.. There's not a whole lot of reason you CAN'T or SHOULDN'T. There's just a LOT more to it than "tree trimming".
These guys have just seen a thousand of these threads.. And I think, frankly, it insults them to some degree. Most guys sink everything thing they've got mentally,physically, financially into this business. The great guys have a passion for it. A thirst to learn that will never go away.
So for some to see guys come around acting as if its no big deal.. Asking what gear to buy so they can get climbing right away and "line their pockets", it pisses them off. We all have egos, and they bruise easy.

That being said.. I know you have to start somewhere, we all did. So what you're getting is.. It's kinda of like tough love.. With a pinch of " **** off" for flavor.

Okay.. So.. What do you want to know?

Edit: it was said better above.


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 16, 2015)

Another thing to consider is the market for tree services anymore.

Suppose you go and get all your certs to be an arborist, insured, worker comp, nice equipment and charge a reasonable amount. You give an estimate of $1500 for a removal and the homeowner calls some hack with no certs, no insurance, no workers comp, a piece of $hit truck and trailer. He give them an estimate of $650, guess who's gonna get the job? Not you. People don't care about anything other than the price.

Its hard to compete with hacks these days unless you have a proven business with excellent ratings and lots of referral to do residential, and even the its tough sometimes.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> 'Cause it sucks.
> No, seriously.. There's not a whole lot of reason you CAN'T or SHOULDN'T. There's just a LOT more to it than "tree trimming".
> These guys have just seen a thousand of these threads.. And I think, frankly, it insults them to some degree. Most guys sink everything thing they've got mentally,physically, financially into this business. The great guys have a passion for it. I thirst to learn that will never go away.
> So for some to see guys come around acting as if its no big deal.. Asking what gear to buy so they can get climbing right away and "line their pockets", it pisses them off. We all have egos, and they bruise easy.
> ...



First off, I want to really thank you for replying to my post and being respectful in the manner of understanding that I am really trying to gain advice to which could better me when trying to get started. I mean no disrespect to any of the guys on these threads but like you said we all have to start somewhere. I really am trying to gain some advice, tips, and imspiration from people who have been in this business and would have liked to have known certain things when starting out that could potentially help me in the long run as I begin this journey. 

As someone who understands the hard, strenuous work that needs to be put into tree servicing, despite the fact I know more about logging, it takes a lot of heart, time, energy, money, and commitment to make a business in this industry successful. I may just be a young gun, but I do have the utmost respect for people who make it in this business. It's not easy stuff. I may have seemed forward saying how I am looking to get started and what should I buy, but in reality I need to know what I'm really getting into. I've done some research and put a good majority of my time these past several weeks into taking notes and preparing myself when the time comes and I'm ready to jump into this; until then I am looking to get experience from those who know what they're doing and advice that could help avoid issues in the beginning stages of starting my business. 

So in the end I want to find out, on a more personal level from the pros, what all goes into starting a business like this? What are the steps I need to take to start my business with a bang that could potentially lead to success? Is there any books I should read into or site I should visit if understand the finances or business aspects of the tree service industry? What are some good contacts to have and keep as I move through the process? Should I start buying into equipment now and how much should I expect to own when beginning? Are there certifications and things I need to have when going into this? What kind of laws do I need to live by... It's these sorts of questions that, sure a website can answer, but if there are ways to get into this industry to where I can be fully prepared for any curves or have a small piece of business advice that could launch my tree service business beyond what I expect then I am looking to get all the advice I can get. I know that I am a hard worker and I know that it's going to take a lot of energy both mentally, physically, and emotionally but I am willing to put everything I got into this. I have passion for being around trees and a want to have that feeling and adrenaline rush as the tree falls. It's something I live for and I know by working in this industry I will be happy going to work therefore won't actually be working a day in my life. I don't need to be a millionaire I just need to get my life situated to where I love my job and can proceed to do other things that I enjoy with the money I could potentially make from this. I don't expect to make money right away by any means, that would be foolish. I do hope to grow and make this my life to where I will have the success I want within the industry.

So hopefully that all makes sense to you and if you could help me out on any level whether it be experience, advice, tips of the trade, books, anything I am willing to learn and expand my knowledge!


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## Jimbo209 (Aug 16, 2015)

Edit dupe saw below


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## tree MDS (Aug 16, 2015)

Lay a couple of bigger limbs down first, then stack the smaller stuff on top of that,, you can use the bigger limbs as handles. Now drag them off towards the chipper. When you're done with that, come back and get some more. We'll get to the wood towards the end of the day. Lol.


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## Jimbo209 (Aug 16, 2015)

Logginboy94 said:


> First off, I want to really thank you for replying to my post and being respectful in the manner of understanding that I am really trying to gain advice to which could better me when trying to get started. I mean no disrespect to any of the guys on these threads
> 
> So hopefully that all makes sense to you and if you could help me out on any level whether it be experience, advice, tips of the trade, books, anything I am willing to learn and expand my knowledge!



There was books given to you at the beginning and for experience go and work apprenticeship in the tree or on the ground, which I plan on doing here in AUS for similar reason to you, the love of chainsaws 


As another NOOB(to this side of things), I THINK that you've stormed over the advice, it'll possibly take you less than average to get up to scratch. But don't discount their advice just cause its free. thankfully the blokes on the dribble are just as nice as these guys

Cheers
James


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

Jimbo209 said:


> There was books given to you at the beginning and for experience go and work apprenticeship in the tree or on the ground, which I plan on doing here in AUS for similar reason to you, the love of chainsaws
> 
> 
> As another NOOB(to this side of things), I THINK that you've stormed over the advice, it'll possibly take you less than average to get up to scratch. But don't discount their advice just cause its free. thankfully the blokes on the dribble are just as nice as these guys
> ...


Thank you so much I'm very appreciative for that advice, means alot I'm gunna look into getting the books and I'm looking into an apprenticeship with a guy to start on the ground and work my way up so I'm gunna see were it goes. Good luck to you as well!


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## Jimbo209 (Aug 16, 2015)

That old guy you mentioned sounds like a good start. 

I think I have about 2 years on you by your user name but only firewood experience in Australia v your logging.
Good luck mate hopefully you'll be the experienced one answering the same thread in ~10y time


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

Jimbo209 said:


> That old guy you mentioned sounds like a good start.
> 
> I think I have about 2 years on you by your user name but only firewood experience in Australia v your logging.
> Good luck mate hopefully you'll be the experienced one answering the same thread in ~10y time


I'd love that. I'm just trying to make something happen with my life ya know


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## Jimbo209 (Aug 16, 2015)

I'm in the same boat mate


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## tree MDS (Aug 16, 2015)

Lol.. hopefully the old guy yells at you so much you cry into your pillow at night. Just saying.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

tree MDS said:


> Lol.. hopefully the old guy yells at you so much you cry into your pillow at night. Just saying.


See like how is that helping me in any way?


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

tree MDS said:


> Lol.. hopefully the old guy yells at you so much you cry into your pillow at night. Just saying.



Look buddy, I'm not looking to get folks like you bringing me down due to being ambitious and trying to build a life for myself in this industry. There is very little need for the smart ass remarks; we all have a chance in this life to be successful and I personally am trying to gain success within the tree service industry. If you don't mind, I want professional advice from folks who want the younger generation to be successful, not from people like yourself who envy the younger generation due to immaturity and wrecklessness. I'm that 1% of my generation that knows to be successful you have to work. I don't feel that I am entitled to success without putting my fullest effort at the forefront and damn it I will do everything I can be on top. If you have personal advice that you'd like to offer me I'll be more than glad to take it and make sure I keep it with me as I progress but if not I'm politely asking that you back off and let me try to learn as much as I can from people who wish to help me. Thank you and god bless.


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## tree MDS (Aug 16, 2015)

Because you need less typing and more getting yelled at. Screamed at even. Sure, there are other ways for your kind to learn, but from what I've seen the screaming at works best. I mean I'm sure the tree climbers companion would look cute on your night stand and all, but I'm just telling you how it really works. Start with dragging brush and getting yelled at.


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## RajElectric (Aug 16, 2015)

Why ask us dimwits then? Sounds like you have a solid plan, get taught for free by some real pros.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

tree MDS said:


> Because you need less typing and more getting yelled at. Screamed at even. Sure, there are other ways for your kind to learn, but from what I've seen the screaming at works best. I mean I'm sure the tree climbers companion would look cute on your night stand and all, but I'm just telling you how it really works. Start with dragging brush and getting yelled at.



Sir, no disrespect, but I've had my fair share of getting screamed at while working. In fact I've worked through the depths of hell and back under a mentor who did nothing but yell and scream and spit in my face. It was basically a dictatorship and let me explain why:

I worked with this arrogant and selfish son of ***** who yelled at me if I was centimeters off the trail with our logging skidder; he went off the deep end when I didn't show up to the work site with cigarettes, let alone if I bought the wrong ones. This man had me working 15 hour days in all weather conditions and no days off just so he could afford his alcohol fix at the end of the week. I've risked my life, time, blood, sweat, and all mental stability just to help this man be successful. Ive listened to him rant for hours sitting in the skidder about how hard logging is and how rough his life is while I worked under him gathering logs, trimming them down, and hauling them to the landing from sunrise to sunset. In the menatime he would yell at me saying the way i did it wasnt as good as the way ge did it but hed still sit on his lazy ass. In the end, I did all the work and he took the credit and money for that case.

I guess I'm tired of helping someone else with their success when I'm waiting for mine to start. You can't claim success unless you build it yourself and that's what I'm trying to do. Sir you believe that getting screamed at is the only way to gain discipline in this industry... Well if I wanted that life id join the military. Now as I've said once I'll say it again, unless you have some constructive criticism to offer me or pieces of advice that may better me to become a great tree service person, please stop with your remarks. They are not and will not help me. I understand we all have a difference of opinion but I do not find yours to be relevant for I've already been through an awful experience with a boss who worked as if I was a slave. So thank you for your advice and wish you the best with all of your future endeavors as I hope you wish the best for me too.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

tree MDS said:


> Because you need less typing and more getting yelled at. Screamed at even. Sure, there are other ways for your kind to learn, but from what I've seen the screaming at works best. I mean I'm sure the tree climbers companion would look cute on your night stand and all, but I'm just telling you how it really works. Start with dragging brush and getting yelled at.



One more thing, currently I am enrolled full time at college. I am getting a degree to better myself and give myself a greater advantage in life. So you say I need less typing and more yelling... Well I am doing the typing due to the fact I have a student mentality. I learn from advice and by doing in which I now have the opportunity to learn from an already successful individual who is offering me an opportunity and I am gaining business advice from other peos on here who may just have a little more insight that could progress me forward. I don't need to limit myself to learning from one person, I am looking to learn from everyone and anyone who is willing to give me advice.


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## tree MDS (Aug 16, 2015)

I wanna meet this old drunk that can still work 15 hour days while screaming at some young punk. Sounds pretty impressive. I'm only good for about 7 - 8 hours these days.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

tree MDS said:


> I wanna meet this old drunk that can still work 15 hour days while screaming at some young punk. Sounds pretty impressive. I'm only good for about 7 - 8 hours these days.



Well, first off I am not a young "punk"... I am trying to maintain a professional level of education and understanding on this site since I know there a guys out there willing to help out and give as much advice as they can so the industry can continue to grow and thrive. I'm no pro and I do not know everything about the tree service business, in fact I know little to nothing. I just know that I have the ambition and integrity to get into the industry and I will work my ass off to be something and someone in this world. I have maintained respect towards you so I ask the same in return. 

Secondly, giving you the name of my boss is like giving out the name of my ex after complaining about her, pointless and immature. That relationship has ended and there is no need to live in the past. It was an experience I will keep with me as I move forward in my career and no one can take the skills I've gained from working for him from me. He taught me patience, hard work, ambition, endurance, to listen and do as told, to respect, and showed me that I am worth much more than just a simple work hand. 

Im sure you would love to meet him for you both look down on the younger generation and seem to both have a very negative and bitter attitude; however I am not going to stoop down to that level. Go to PA and maybe you'll run into him at one of the local bars but other than that there is no need for the immature remarks from a " professional" such as yourself.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

RajElectric said:


> Why ask us dimwits then? Sounds like you have a solid plan, get taught for free by some real pros.



I don't see y'all as "dimwits". I don't see a reason to limit myself to the advice of just one person. Yes this man is going to teach me the ins and outs of the business and give me the experience I will need to go on my own; however, everyone has their own experience within the industry and if one person (or anyone on this thread) could give me a piece of advice they wish they could have had when starting out, I may just end up being successful as I wish to be. There's always more to learn and more to absorb, its just a matter of whether people are willing to help you out because there will always be people trying to tear me down.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 16, 2015)

Well, your typing skills are impressive!! I would have misspelled half those words.

Seriously, simmer down, we're just seeing if you make the cut. You're seriously way too thin skinned.

Take a breath, do some research, and jump back on tomorrow. Be prepared to give us the 5 most populous species of trees in your target market, and the most common pathogen for each species.


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## acer-kid (Aug 16, 2015)

You're fighting a losing battle, here brother. Might as well give up the ghost as far as the advice goes.

But some of the best advice you did get was to get a job at a tree service as a ground man. For now. See how the operation works. What ISNT working. As lots of questions when there's time. Watch climbers like a hawk. If you're dead set on climbing, accumulate gear as you go. Practice. Learn as much as you can about as many aspects as you can. 

If you don't have the right mind set, and tree-itis, you're not going to run a successful tree care company. You will run a dime a dozen removal company. There's only so many trees to cut down and always competition. This really is an industry in which its best to start from the ground up.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 16, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> You're fighting a losing battle, here brother. Might as well give up the ghost as far as the advice goes.
> 
> But some of the best advice you did get was to get a job at a tree service as a ground man. For now. See how the operation works. What ISNT working. As lots of questions when there's time. Watch climbers like a hawk. If you're dead set on climbing, accumulate gear as you go. Practice. Learn as much as you can about as many aspects as you can.
> 
> If you don't have the right mind set, and tree-itis, you're not going to run a successful tree care company. You will run a dime a dozen removal company. There's only so many trees to cut down and always competition. This really is an industry in which its best to start from the ground up.


 Thank you very much, I do want to be a climber and I will be watching.


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## Zale (Aug 17, 2015)

Where is Windber?


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 17, 2015)

PA


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## Zale (Aug 17, 2015)

Is that close to Philly or Pittsburg?


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 17, 2015)

Zale said:


> Is that close to Philly or Pittsburg?


Yes I currently live in Pittsburgh.


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## Pelorus (Aug 17, 2015)

Logginboy94 said:


> Yes I currently live in Pittsburgh.



TCI Expo November 12-14. 
In Pittsburgh this year. 
Attend. Learn. Enjoy.


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## Zale (Aug 17, 2015)

Reason I ask is that it helps to be around a large urban center with lots of trees and people with lots of money. Pittsburgh isn't bad but it's not great. I imagine Davey is located in that area and probably has a lock on the big money clients. I would suggest hooking up with a company like Davey or any other national company in the area for 2-3 years. You will be taught the basics of tree care and climbing skills. Also, if you want steady money with a high gross margin think PHC. It's much easier on the body.


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## acer-kid (Aug 17, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> TCI Expo November 12-14.
> In Pittsburgh this year.
> Attend. Learn. Enjoy.


More good advice!


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 17, 2015)

If you want to jump into the biz early, learn how to prune and hedge. Prune everything, shrubs, japanese maples, little trees. You can then jump into the biz with only a pole pruner, hand saw and hedger and a pickup. I know, everyone is going to say hedging is for landscapers, but we are a $2 million/yr operation and 40% of our biz is hedging and all the arborist foremen have to hedge from time to time. Same for every tree company in this area. 

If you get a job with a tree company, then you can do this on the side. Pruning skills are something you need to learn regardless. 

Learn the top 10 species in your area (native and ornamental), how they are pruned, what insects and disease affect them and what abiotic factors affect them.

Remember tree care looks at the whole lifespan of the tree:
- planting
- immature care
- pruning
- fertilizing and pest control
- assessing and prescriptions
- removal
- stump grinding.

The other important aspect that you will need to learn if you want to run a tree company is SALES. You will have to market your company so people will call you, then go and meet them and determine what the customer wants done, provide and estimate and then sell them on the idea that you will do a better job than X, Y or Z Tree Care; or why they should pick you rather than the cheaper bid they got from 2 Crackheads and a Pickup Tree Service. 

Finally, you need to decide how you handle the stress. Working hard is just one aspect, but what you do when you're behind on bills, a truck breaks down, a crew member doesn't show up and a customer calls to complain about the job you did last week.


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## acer-kid (Aug 17, 2015)

And the good advice keeps on comin'. There you go guy! That's what you're looking for.


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## gorman (Aug 17, 2015)

Hedging!?!? Argh!! I hate hedges!!!!!


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 17, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> TCI





BC WetCoast said:


> If you want to jump into the biz early, learn how to prune and hedge. Prune everything, shrubs, japanese maples, little trees. You can then jump into the biz with only a pole pruner, hand saw and hedger and a pickup. I know, everyone is going to say hedging is for landscapers, but we are a $2 million/yr operation and 40% of our biz is hedging and all the arborist foremen have to hedge from time to time. Same for every tree company in this area.
> 
> If you get a job with a tree company, then you can do this on the side. Pruning skills are something you need to learn regardless.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your input it is much appreciated and has opened my eyes for sure! I will be looking into these things!


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## Pelorus (Aug 17, 2015)

You just gotta get to Expo if possible. 
The closest city to me that it has ever been held in has been a minimum six hour drive. 

http://expo2015.tcia.org


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 17, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> You just gotta get to Expo if possible.
> The closest city to me that it has ever been held in has been a minimum six hour drive.
> 
> http://expo2015.tcia.org


Ya its like 10 miles from me so I will most definitely be attending. I did some reading about the expo and it sounds as if it could offer me alot of opportunity. Are you going to this one?


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## Pelorus (Aug 18, 2015)

Yeah. It is a pilgrimage.....perhaps similar to embarking on a Haj to Mecca, without the company of several million nutjobs.
Gotta go to Expo even though the Canadian - US $ exchange rate is purely savage.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 18, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Yeah. It is a pilgrimage.....perhaps similar to embarking on a Haj to Mecca, without the company of several million nutjobs.
> Gotta go to Expo even though the Canadian - US $ exchange rate is purely savage.


Ya it looks like a nice expo!


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## rarefish383 (Aug 18, 2015)

Dang, I haven't chimed in on one of these threads in about five years, and said I never would again, but here goes. Some have mentioned having credentials and insurance. I used to bring this up , till I found out that half the country had different rules to play by. I was fourth generation in the tree care industry. I took my Maryland Tree Expert exam in 1999. At that time, just to take the exam, you had to have a 4 year degree or 8 years of service in the trade. We were licensed in MD, VA, and DC. I think PA has similar rules to getting a license. So, no matter how much you want it, it still may take years. Half the tree guys I know started out as fly by night operations. Some turned into pretty good, reputable company's. Some are still hacks. Call your DNR and see what they require for a license. Some states only require you to have a 73 F150 and a Poulan Wild Thing. I think PA is a little more stringent. In MD you have to have a Maryland Tree Expert License to get insurance. You also have to have a state business license to operate a business of any kind. Landscapers that have a MD "Home Improvement License" don't count, they do a lot of tree work, but not legally. Tree insurance is much, much more expensive than landscape insurance. A "Grass Whacker" falls off a curb and breaks his ankle and is laid up for a few weeks. You fall out of a tree and you're just laid "out".

Now, sorry if you don't like the term "Hack", but if you start up without license and insurance, that's what you'll be. As I said, a bunch of guys I know started that way and turned out good. Others already mentioned this business isn't what it was from after WWII till about 20 years ago. We were always booked 6 to 8 weeks out. If customers were a little shy of the price, we would knock off a couple hundred bucks and schedule the fork for Jan and Feb so we would have work in the cold months. We always had work year round. That's why I got out. I went 3 years straight without a vacation. Now, you're lucky to be bidding work today for next week. There are more illegal Tree "Hacks" than you can shake a stick at, and you're lucky to get the money on a job we got 20 plus years ago. There's still money in it, but you need to be in the high end of town. All of our work was in Potomac, Bethesda, and Chevy Chase, the high rent part of MD. Plus, I was lucky coming up in the business, we had 4 generations of clients. 

You sound sincere, you can work hard, grow some skin like tree bark and hang around awhile. But, remember, you screw up without insurance and you can have the rest of your whole long life ruined. Not a lecture, just a thought, Joe.

PS: There's nothing like the smell of saw dust or split wood. There's nothing like a 100CC saw with a 52" bar. I'm deaf as a door knob in my right ear from running saws with gutted mufflers, and I have enough nerve damage in my hands I can't snap my fingers, wouldn't trade a minute of it. I took up chainsaw milling so my big saws wouldn't get rust on the bars. Good luck, Joe.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 18, 2015)

rarefish383 said:


> Dang, I haven't chimed in on one of these threads in about five years, and said I never would again, but here goes. Some have mentioned having credentials and insurance. I used to bring this up , till I found out that half the country had different rules to play by. I was fourth generation in the tree care industry. I took my Maryland Tree Expert exam in 1999. At that time, just to take the exam, you had to have a 4 year degree or 8 years of service in the trade. We were licensed in MD, VA, and DC. I think PA has similar rules to getting a license. So, no matter how much you want it, it still may take years. Half the tree guys I know started out as fly by night operations. Some turned into pretty good, reputable company's. Some are still hacks. Call your DNR and see what they require for a license. Some states only require you to have a 73 F150 and a Poulan Wild Thing. I think PA is a little more stringent. In MD you have to have a Maryland Tree Expert License to get insurance. You also have to have a state business license to operate a business of any kind. Landscapers that have a MD "Home Improvement License" don't count, they do a lot of tree work, but not legally. Tree insurance is much, much more expensive than landscape insurance. A "Grass Whacker" falls off a curb and breaks his ankle and is laid up for a few weeks. You fall out of a tree and you're just laid "out".
> 
> Now, sorry if you don't like the term "Hack", but if you start up without license and insurance, that's what you'll be. As I said, a bunch of guys I know started that way and turned out good. Others already mentioned this business isn't what it was from after WWII till about 20 years ago. We were always booked 6 to 8 weeks out. If customers were a little shy of the price, we would knock off a couple hundred bucks and schedule the fork for Jan and Feb so we would have work in the cold months. We always had work year round. That's why I got out. I went 3 years straight without a vacation. Now, you're lucky to be bidding work today for next week. There are more illegal Tree "Hacks" than you can shake a stick at, and you're lucky to get the money on a job we got 20 plus years ago. There's still money in it, but you need to be in the high end of town. All of our work was in Potomac, Bethesda, and Chevy Chase, the high rent part of MD. Plus, I was lucky coming up in the business, we had 4 generations of clients.
> 
> ...


Thank you so so much for this advice it is awesome advice and I will use every bit of it!


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## Tree94 (Aug 18, 2015)

rarefish383 said:


> Dang, I haven't chimed in on one of these threads in about five years, and said I never would again, but here goes. Some have mentioned having credentials and insurance. I used to bring this up , till I found out that half the country had different rules to play by. I was fourth generation in the tree care industry. I took my Maryland Tree Expert exam in 1999. At that time, just to take the exam, you had to have a 4 year degree or 8 years of service in the trade. We were licensed in MD, VA, and DC. I think PA has similar rules to getting a license. So, no matter how much you want it, it still may take years. Half the tree guys I know started out as fly by night operations. Some turned into pretty good, reputable company's. Some are still hacks. Call your DNR and see what they require for a license. Some states only require you to have a 73 F150 and a Poulan Wild Thing. I think PA is a little more stringent. In MD you have to have a Maryland Tree Expert License to get insurance. You also have to have a state business license to operate a business of any kind. Landscapers that have a MD "Home Improvement License" don't count, they do a lot of tree work, but not legally. Tree insurance is much, much more expensive than landscape insurance. A "Grass Whacker" falls off a curb and breaks his ankle and is laid up for a few weeks. You fall out of a tree and you're just laid "out".
> 
> Now, sorry if you don't like the term "Hack", but if you start up without license and insurance, that's what you'll be. As I said, a bunch of guys I know started that way and turned out good. Others already mentioned this business isn't what it was from after WWII till about 20 years ago. We were always booked 6 to 8 weeks out. If customers were a little shy of the price, we would knock off a couple hundred bucks and schedule the fork for Jan and Feb so we would have work in the cold months. We always had work year round. That's why I got out. I went 3 years straight without a vacation. Now, you're lucky to be bidding work today for next week. There are more illegal Tree "Hacks" than you can shake a stick at, and you're lucky to get the money on a job we got 20 plus years ago. There's still money in it, but you need to be in the high end of town. All of our work was in Potomac, Bethesda, and Chevy Chase, the high rent part of MD. Plus, I was lucky coming up in the business, we had 4 generations of clients.
> 
> ...



It's interesting seeing the difference in regulations throughout the country.
Where I'm from, Arizona, you don't need to be licensed. And my insurance only cost me about $1200 for a year. And it is tree insurance, covering work at all heights. 
Its very easy for a fly by nighter to bid on the same work as the big companies like Bartlett out here


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## Zale (Aug 18, 2015)

rarefish383 said:


> Dang, I haven't chimed in on one of these threads in about five years, and said I never would again, but here goes. Some have mentioned having credentials and insurance. I used to bring this up , till I found out that half the country had different rules to play by. I was fourth generation in the tree care industry. I took my Maryland Tree Expert exam in 1999. At that time, just to take the exam, you had to have a 4 year degree or 8 years of service in the trade. We were licensed in MD, VA, and DC. I think PA has similar rules to getting a license. So, no matter how much you want it, it still may take years. Half the tree guys I know started out as fly by night operations. Some turned into pretty good, reputable company's. Some are still hacks. Call your DNR and see what they require for a license. Some states only require you to have a 73 F150 and a Poulan Wild Thing. I think PA is a little more stringent. In MD you have to have a Maryland Tree Expert License to get insurance. You also have to have a state business license to operate a business of any kind. Landscapers that have a MD "Home Improvement License" don't count, they do a lot of tree work, but not legally. Tree insurance is much, much more expensive than landscape insurance. A "Grass Whacker" falls off a curb and breaks his ankle and is laid up for a few weeks. You fall out of a tree and you're just laid "out".
> 
> Now, sorry if you don't like the term "Hack", but if you start up without license and insurance, that's what you'll be. As I said, a bunch of guys I know started that way and turned out good. Others already mentioned this business isn't what it was from after WWII till about 20 years ago. We were always booked 6 to 8 weeks out. If customers were a little shy of the price, we would knock off a couple hundred bucks and schedule the fork for Jan and Feb so we would have work in the cold months. We always had work year round. That's why I got out. I went 3 years straight without a vacation. Now, you're lucky to be bidding work today for next week. There are more illegal Tree "Hacks" than you can shake a stick at, and you're lucky to get the money on a job we got 20 plus years ago. There's still money in it, but you need to be in the high end of town. All of our work was in Potomac, Bethesda, and Chevy Chase, the high rent part of MD. Plus, I was lucky coming up in the business, we had 4 generations of clients.
> 
> ...




Good advice. What's your Md Lisc. # ? Just curious, mines #336.


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## rarefish383 (Aug 19, 2015)

Hey Zale, your just down the road a bit. As I said above I kind of burned out and got out of the business. When my Dad retired in 1986 I let the business go and went to work with UPS. In 99 I got PO'ed at UPS about something and went down to Annapolis and took my test and passed it. At that time our insurance company wanted $600 a month and I started thinking it wasn't all that bad at UPS. I had 6 weeks vacation then, now I have 8. I did keep my stump grinder and did stumps on the side. No license needed for that. Finally sold it about three for four years ago. Still have a bunch of saws, a couple big ones I use on my mill. I also only have 46 days left to work and I've got my 30 years in at UPS, so I'm out. My Dad owned Olney Tree Service. I have 3 of his License's in hand, 1978, 79 and 81, and they are all license # 48. I think I have some older ones where his number was down in the thirties. His brother, my uncle, owned Bonifants Tree Service, when he passed away my cousin Tom took over Bonifants, when Tom retired a few years back he sold out to his Brother in Law, Jamie Smith, who still runs Bonifants. Going through this pile of old cards I found a bunch with 6 digit phone #'s and no zip codes. Al's Tee Service, Takoma Park MD, SLigo-2523. Al was my Dad's Father in Law. My uncles Son in Law, Danny Baker owned Bakers Tree service out of Wheaton MD, he's long retired too. There's is a Bakers Tree service out of Frederick now, not related. Anyway, my Dad was Mel Bonifant, and my uncle Duke have passed on, Tommy is retired and I'm soon to be. 

This is the last big tree I took down. Used Jimmy Keene with his 50 ton crane. Love posting this picture, didn't use much PPE back then, Joe.


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## Logginboy94 (Aug 19, 2015)

rarefish383 said:


> Hey Zale, your just down the road a bit. As I said above I kind of burned out and got out of the business. When my Dad retired in 1986 I let the business go and went to work with UPS. In 99 I got PO'ed at UPS about something and went down to Annapolis and took my test and passed it. At that time our insurance company wanted $600 a month and I started thinking it wasn't all that bad at UPS. I had 6 weeks vacation then, now I have 8. I did keep my stump grinder and did stumps on the side. No license needed for that. Finally sold it about three for four years ago. Still have a bunch of saws, a couple big ones I use on my mill. I also only have 46 days left to work and I've got my 30 years in at UPS, so I'm out. My Dad owned Olney Tree Service. I have 3 of his License's in hand, 1978, 79 and 81, and they are all license # 48. I think I have some older ones where his number was down in the thirties. His brother, my uncle, owned Bonifants Tree Service, when he passed away my cousin Tom took over Bonifants, when Tom retired a few years back he sold out to his Brother in Law, Jamie Smith, who still runs Bonifants. Going through this pile of old cards I found a bunch with 6 digit phone #'s and no zip codes. Al's Tee Service, Takoma Park MD, SLigo-2523. Al was my Dad's Father in Law. My uncles Son in Law, Danny Baker owned Bakers Tree service out of Wheaton MD, he's long retired too. There's is a Bakers Tree service out of Frederick now, not related. Anyway, my Dad was Mel Bonifant, and my uncle Duke have passed on, Tommy is retired and I'm soon to be.
> 
> This is the last big tree I took down. Used Jimmy Keene with his 50 ton crane. Love posting this picture, didn't use much PPE back then, Joe.


That's awesome!


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## rarefish383 (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks. Here's where my interest are now, milling slabs, making slab furniture, and hanging out on my farm in WV. Keeps my saw dust fix going, Joe.


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## Zale (Aug 19, 2015)

rarefish383 said:


> Hey Zale, your just down the road a bit. As I said above I kind of burned out and got out of the business. When my Dad retired in 1986 I let the business go and went to work with UPS. In 99 I got PO'ed at UPS about something and went down to Annapolis and took my test and passed it. At that time our insurance company wanted $600 a month and I started thinking it wasn't all that bad at UPS. I had 6 weeks vacation then, now I have 8. I did keep my stump grinder and did stumps on the side. No license needed for that. Finally sold it about three for four years ago. Still have a bunch of saws, a couple big ones I use on my mill. I also only have 46 days left to work and I've got my 30 years in at UPS, so I'm out. My Dad owned Olney Tree Service. I have 3 of his License's in hand, 1978, 79 and 81, and they are all license # 48. I think I have some older ones where his number was down in the thirties. His brother, my uncle, owned Bonifants Tree Service, when he passed away my cousin Tom took over Bonifants, when Tom retired a few years back he sold out to his Brother in Law, Jamie Smith, who still runs Bonifants. Going through this pile of old cards I found a bunch with 6 digit phone #'s and no zip codes. Al's Tee Service, Takoma Park MD, SLigo-2523. Al was my Dad's Father in Law. My uncles Son in Law, Danny Baker owned Bakers Tree service out of Wheaton MD, he's long retired too. There's is a Bakers Tree service out of Frederick now, not related. Anyway, my Dad was Mel Bonifant, and my uncle Duke have passed on, Tommy is retired and I'm soon to be.
> 
> This is the last big tree I took down. Used Jimmy Keene with his 50 ton crane. Love posting this picture, didn't use much PPE back then, Joe.




Nice looking slabs. Yeah, you do come from a long line. I have heard of Bonifants and I drive by Bonifant Rd. every now and then. Enjoy retirement.


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## rarefish383 (Aug 20, 2015)

Thanks, if you want to meet up at Barley and Hops in Frederick, I'll buy the first round. There are a couple other AS members in the Frederick area, Joe.


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