# Muzzleloading



## Timberhauler (Sep 19, 2007)

I only use a bow for a week or two when the season first opens here just because it's the only thing that's allowed.Mostly I use bow season to do alot of my scouting,I don't really start hunting seriously until muzzleloader season starts.

I have this old T/C sidehammer .45 caliber percussion cap rifle that I bought when I was 16.It's somewhat accurate,accurate enough to have killed several deer with,but I've probably missed just as many and the thing has a habit of mis-firing at the worst times.It has somewhat of a sentimental value though so I'm keeping it around to pass down someday.

I've completely ignored this new age of in-line muzzleloaders.I took pride in doing it old school because it still presented a challenge.One of my hunting buddies called me this weekend and offered me his 1 year old muzzleloader for $75 bucks.He is in kind of a tight spot right now so I took his offer.It's a Traditions thunderbolt .50 with a 4x10x40 Bushnell scope.I checked and that was a 100 dollar scope,so I figured I had a bargain...He must ave never cleaned the thing because the action was tight and there was quite a bit of rust build up in the barrel,so I took it apart and gave it some love.When finished it looked like it had never been fired.

He told me that it was not accurate,and that he was having a hard time getting even three inch groups at 100 yards.He had been using pellets,but I elected to use Hogdon pyrodex with T/C 250 grain bullets.I also decided that I would sight in at 75 yards because that would be about the longest shot I would get where I'm planning to use it.....It took me four shots to get it zeroed,and it was truly zeroed hitting dead center...I took the nipple out every shot and cleaned the bore with a mixture of Dawn dish soap and water,then coated it with WD-40 each time.I was shooting from a vise,and the thing made a three shot,one elongated hole group,with a fourth shot straying 3/4 of an inch.He said he'd been three 50 grain pellets,I was using 110 grains of powder,and he said that he would shoot it as many as ten times before cleaning and I was cleaning it every shot because it will sit clean,and be fired clean when hunting.I know this is a lower end rifle.and there are probably much better ones out there,but I was absolutely astonished at how this rifle performed.It seems also to ignite almost as fast as a rifle,especially compared to my old T/C.I wished I had bought one of these things a long time ago...It seems with this thing that you're not really at a disadvantage,and I thought that was what M/L season was supposed to be.


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## oneadam12 (Sep 21, 2007)

If you really like the new stuff, you should try shooting the 777 powders. They are low sulfur and burn extremely clean. I don't know if you have it in your area, but I use T/C Number 13 Bore Cleaner. The stuff works wonders. Shooting 777 you can usually clean the barrel with 3 or 4 patches after 5 or 6 shots.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 21, 2007)

oneadam12 said:


> If you really like the new stuff, you should try shooting the 777 powders. They are low sulfur and burn extremely clean. I don't know if you have it in your area, but I use T/C Number 13 Bore Cleaner. The stuff works wonders. Shooting 777 you can usually clean the barrel with 3 or 4 patches after 5 or 6 shots.



In a sidelock real blackpowder ignites better than the subs and all you need to clean the bore with is warm soapy water. If you use a good patch lube with PRB you can get off 50 shots without swabbing using real blackpowder. For hunting work up a load with a clean barrel as the first shot is the one that counts (e.g. swab between EVERY shot)

Your TC will shoot better than most people can see with open sights, if you take the time to work up a proper load. I took my deer with open sights last year at 90 yds offhand with a TC renegade. It has a GM barrel and will put five shots in the same hole at 50 yds. The pic is a target of Five shots of 385 gr buffalo bullet over a wonder wad and 80 gr Goex FFg at 50 yds. It's dead on at 100yds.



If you are getting misfires make sure you caps and nipple are in good condition and the nipple and flash channel clean. Seal the caps with some wax from a candle and put a piece of tape or a condom/ballon over the barrel end to keep out moisture when hunting: they will blow off long before the ball/bullet get to the end.

There is nothing wrong with your TC, you just need to learn how to make it work. Check out this website which caters to traditional MLs:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php

happy hunting!!!!

P.S. if you want to sell the TC send me a PM


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## Wood Hick (Sep 21, 2007)

True muzzleloading is an art in itself, I mean using flintlocks or percussion caps. It takes years to become a great flintlock shot, percussion is a little easier. I got a TC Renegade as a gift when I was about 13 or 14. I went out every year for 5 years and missed numerous deer. Finally an elder at my hunting camp took me under his wing and showed me how to load, tune, shoot, clean, and maintain the thing. Twenty some years later now I am pretty good with them, and currently own three flintlocks. I too stayed away from the inlines until last year, when a New York buddy invited me up for their southern gun season. I bought a TC Omega, and took the advice of many and loaded it up with 3 50 grain triple 7 pellets. The gun shot well, but not great. Just for kicks I loaded up with only 2 pellets ( 100 grains ) and shot a much better group. Ragged hole groups like you describe with the lower loads, and still sends a deer a$$ over tin cups! For me though, it does not compare to the flintlock. You just never know what is going to happen, and that makes it fun!


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## oneadam12 (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't truly know how many shots it would take to make my Remington ML700 misfire. It never has, nor have I had any trouble with it, The Number 13 cleaner makes it so easy to clean, I just do it out of habit. If our gun season wasn't so long down here, it might be more of an issue, as well as the fact we can take does all season with a rifle. I enjoy mine, but in truth, the only difference in it and a regular centerfire rifle is a follow up shot. The only trouble I really had with the side locks, was the sights. I think I would have enjoyed them more with a peep style sight, who knows, maybe I'll go back to one some day.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 22, 2007)

oneadam12 said:


> I don't truly know how many shots it would take to make my Remington ML700 misfire. It never has, nor have I had any trouble with it, The Number 13 cleaner makes it so easy to clean, I just do it out of habit. If our gun season wasn't so long down here, it might be more of an issue, as well as the fact we can take does all season with a rifle. I enjoy mine, but in truth, the only difference in it and a regular centerfire rifle is a follow up shot. The only trouble I really had with the side locks, was the sights. I think I would have enjoyed them more with a peep style sight, who knows, maybe I'll go back to one some day.



The lyman # SML 57 is a bolt on peep for TC/lyman/investarms traditional MLs. TC also makes a quality bolt on peep. Lyman makes quality globe front sights to compliment the peeps.

Why use # 13 if soapy water works just as good?

Come back from the dark side young skywalker..........if you shoot real black you'll never go back!

P.S. If you want something that really shoots get a Pedersoli Gibbs or Whitworth, traditional 45 cal caplocks shooting 500-600 gr bullets used in 1000 yd match shooting:

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=150&lang=en

http://www.lrml.org/

Yes 1000yd with a front stuffer...............


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## oneadam12 (Sep 22, 2007)

Mad Professor said:


> The lyman # SML 57 is a bolt on peep for TC/lyman/investarms traditional MLs. TC also makes a quality bolt on peep. Lyman makes quality globe front sights to compliment the peeps.
> 
> Why use # 13 if soapy water works just as good?
> 
> ...



Why deal with soap and water when you can use the #13 out of its own bottle? It costs very little and lasts a long time (for me anyway).

Noway I could ever make a 1000 yard shot. I'm only 32, but I have some problem(yet to be determined) with my wrists, any I notice every time I shoot my hands get shakier. Nothing like Parkinsons or the like, but not conducive to long range shooting either. I hate to miss when I shoot, so I have almost given up off hand shooting all together. I used to shoot my pistols quite a bit, but that has suffered worse than the rifle. Even shooting my bow is a challenge some days. It doesn't seem to bad though, I guess because you are hold the bow and arrow in opposite directions. I do envy the guys that can make those shots. I would love to have bragging rights like that. 

You hear people talk all the time about making 300 and 350 yard shots. Ha! I bet most of them have never even attempted shots at that range. I can tell you, 300 is a longggg way down range. I made two near perfect shots on a deer a few years back at 250-260. If I hadn't known how far it was, I know I wouldn't have even come close. It felt good making that shot though. I wish I had a place to practice and shoot those ranges more often. I guess I should move North or West if I do though.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 22, 2007)

oneadam12 said:


> Why deal with soap and water when you can use the #13 out of its own bottle? It costs very little and lasts a long time (for me anyway).
> .



Well I've got dish soap handy at my kitchen sink. I can use it to clean my dishes too. :hmm3grin2orange: 

I clean my barrel the traditional way. I take out the wedge, pull the barrel, and put the breech end in hot soapy water. I plunge with a wet patch which draws water in and out of the barrel and throughly cleans both the barrel and breech. A couple of runs with a wire brush, a fresh patch in hot soapy water, then a couple dry patches. Rinse the bore with some isopropanol (not traditional but prevents flash rust) then another dry patch. Finish up with a patch coated with bore butter to prevent rust. Pull the nipple and coat the threads with bore butter or never sieze. Takes all of 5 minutes....


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## oneadam12 (Sep 22, 2007)

:hmm3grin2orange: Almost a purist. Sounds like you really enjoy it though. Good luck to you this year.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 22, 2007)

oneadam12 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: Almost a purist. Sounds like you really enjoy it though. Good luck to you this year.



And to you also my friend!!!


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## Madsaw (Sep 25, 2007)

I used a CVA colorado mag rifle in the past. Its 50 cal and about as cheap as they are made by CVA. The thing shoots great and can be carried all day with out the weight getting to you. I use 100 gr pyordex ahead of a 375 gr soft lead spizter boat tail hp sabot. This load kicks like a mule. But man does that long hunk of lead fly true. It will out perform regular 12 ga slugs. I am thinking of going to a inline this yr but will tone down the loads. My teeth are not set in so firm now days and can not stand them hard poundings any more.
Bob


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## Timberhauler (Sep 25, 2007)

Madsaw said:


> I used a CVA colorado mag rifle in the past. Its 50 cal and about as cheap as they are made by CVA. The thing shoots great and can be carried all day with out the weight getting to you. I use 100 gr pyordex ahead of a 375 gr soft lead spizter boat tail hp sabot. This load kicks like a mule. But man does that long hunk of lead fly true. It will out perform regular 12 ga slugs. I am thinking of going to a inline this yr but will tone down the loads. My teeth are not set in so firm now days and can not stand them hard poundings any more.
> Bob



Try the T/C Shock Wave 250gr. sabots.I've now been to the range three different times with mine,and they shoot flawlessly every time.I'm using 110 grains of powder,and mine kicks about the same as a 30.06.


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## Madsaw (Sep 25, 2007)

I had a chance to shoot a 375 H&H in a new style winchester. It was actually more comfortable to shoot then the muzzleloader. The 375 loads was as hot as they could be also. 
I have not used a muzzle loader for a fe wyrs now. We are in a CWD zone and our regular gun season over laps the muzzle season now. We get from the weekend before thanksgiving to mid dec now. Plus a 4 day season in oct.
Later
Bob


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## Timberhauler (Sep 25, 2007)

Madsaw said:


> I had a chance to shoot a 375 H&H in a new style winchester. It was actually more comfortable to shoot then the muzzleloader. The 375 loads was as hot as they could be also.
> I have not used a muzzle loader for a fe wyrs now. We are in a CWD zone and our regular gun season over laps the muzzle season now. We get from the weekend before thanksgiving to mid dec now. Plus a 4 day season in oct.
> Later
> Bob



I bought a .375H&H from a guy I worked with years ago.It was a M700 Remington.It had one of the most beautiful stocks I had ever seen.I only bought it because he was desperate and wanted a small price for it.It was too much for me.The recoil was beyond my tolerable limit.There would be no way I could shoot that rifle accurately unless I spent lots of time and money shooting it over and over again.To mention there isn't a need for such a cannon around here.If you like it,more power to ya'.


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