# Contemplating current production 30cc class top handle saws



## Jim Timber (May 10, 2017)

How do the current crop stand apart from each other?

I'm contemplating buying a climbing saw to add to the collection and my growing assortment of pro-grade climbing gear. I have nerve damage in my hands and my knees are shot, so I will never be a production climber. Side jobs and personal use is where I'm coming from - but I do have a lot of trees (thousands of them).

Tried looking at a Tanaka/Hitachi TCS33 today, only to find out they don't stock them in the store and if I have it shipped to my house I'm stuck with it (no returns even if it hasn't seen fluids). So Amazon is the way to go on the cheapest option I've seen with any prayer of a good reputation. $220 give or take: more money than I want to throw away, but old Tanaka was good stuff. Amazon is worthless past 90 days, so I'm at the mercy of the Hitachi warranty dealers for service should I need it.

Echo CS355T looks good, and I'm pretty happy with my other 35cc class Echo rear handle saw. Local independent dealers won't deal (yet. I might get one to budge since I've dropped 7 bills on him in the past 3 weeks), but I get 10% off from Home Depot bringing this one in at $340 with the tax.

Jonsered/Husky have something in this $350 price range too, but I haven't looked at it in a couple years. Wasn't overly impressed with it at the time, but wasn't actively seeking a climbing saw either. Have not actually ran the saw.

Then we get into the big boys: 201T and 540xp: Both are a chunk of $$$ and over $600 with the 540T being cheaper by $100 from the one dealer I saw the Stihl at today - maybe not an accurate price comparison?

What I'm hung up on is that I could buy 2 Echo's for the price of the Stihl, and 1.5 for the price of the Husky. I'm not that crazy about the autotune either, so I'm not hung up on it in the differentiation (they've also had their fair share of teething issues with the e-carbs). This Echo gets a lot of love from the youtubers, but Husky's 540T seems to own the market in the trees/buckets around here. The 201T was all plastic too, so that's not a valid concern or justification on their price.

I'd be a lot happier if I could demo all of them myself.


----------



## Jed1124 (May 10, 2017)

For what your talking about doing I would get a 355t.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 10, 2017)

I forgot to mention I'm also quite pleased with my Echo forestry trimmer.

Does anyone know why Makita isn't selling an arborist saw in the US anymore? Is it the CARB/EPA crap?


----------



## benjo75 (May 11, 2017)

I have all of them. The 540 XP is my least favorite. It just doesn't run quite right to me. Lots of power but doesn't seem to idle just right. If a saw dies while hanging on my belt, which the 540 does, I won't use it very long. My favorite is the old 020T. I still run mine. It's old and getting weak but is still the best saw I've got. Can't find anyone to rebuild it. My second favorite is the 200T. Even with the design flaw where the air filter cover tab is known for breaking off and going in the engine. Ask me how I know. And after only about 20 tanks of gas. A Stihl rep finally admitted it to me. I purchased a MS 201T about 8 months ago. It's ok. Probably the most reliable but doesn't get near the fuel mileage that the rest of the saws do. The tank seems smaller also. That might be the problem. Also seems to be the weakest of the bunch. Btw all my saws are purely stock. 

My go to saw right now is the Echo 355. Might be because it's the cheapest and I feel like I'm saving money by wearing out the cheapest saw. I've had it about 8 months also. Check their warranty as compared to the 90 day Stihl warranty. Also half the price. 

Pros.. The Echo is powerful. It seems to be my best cutting saw for some reason. Good price. Best warranty. 

Cons... The tiny gas and oil cap are hard to fill without getting it everywhere. But at least it's the screw on caps unlike the sorry Stihl flip caps that have to be replaced every 6 months, constantly leak and if not tightened properly, will dump chain oil or gas all over your pants leg first thing in the morning. Sometimes it doesn't want to idle down all the way without popping the throttle once or twice. The choke and kill switch is reversed as compared to the Stihl. For someone who's used to Stihl for 25 years it gets confusing especially when I use both saws weekly depending on which truck I'm in. 

If I could have only one it would obviously be the old 020T. If it was rebuilt. No. 2 would be the 200T minus the design flaw. That leaves 3 that are in production and available today. I'm taking the very crappy customer service from 2 local Stihl dealerships in my area into consideration. Which is the only real problem I have with Stihl right now, Keeping in mind that 22 of my 25 saws are Stihl. Keep in mind parts and repair of the Echo if the need arises. Stihl Southwest distribution is about 8 miles from my house. I can have any Stihl part the next day if needed. Not sure how long the Echo would be down if it quits or gets dropped, since it did take calling 3 times and having to special order it since they didn't "have enough to place an order". The Echo gets ran about 8 out of ten times I go up. The other times are divided up between the 200T and the 201TCM. The Husky and several others stays in the trucks for backup saws. I've ran the Echo hard and it performs great except for the occasional idling down issue and the very small filler holes. The 201TCM has performed flawlessly so far also. For half the price, I'll be buying Echos until I have a reason not to. 

Btw I take very good care of my saws, keep them sharp and clean and stock. I like them to last as long as they can. They also get used a lot. I'm putting extra use on the Echo to see what it can take. I know what the Stihls can take.


----------



## Jed1124 (May 11, 2017)

benjo75 said:


> I have all of them. The 540 XP is my least favorite. It just doesn't run quite right to me. Lots of power but doesn't seem to idle just right. If a saw dies while hanging on my belt, which the 540 does, I won't use it very long. My favorite is the old 020T. I still run mine. It's old and getting weak but is still the best saw I've got. Can't find anyone to rebuild it. My second favorite is the 200T. Even with the design flaw where the air filter cover tab is known for breaking off and going in the engine. Ask me how I know. And after only about 20 tanks of gas. A Stihl rep finally admitted it to me. I purchased a MS 201T about 8 months ago. It's ok. Probably the most reliable but doesn't get near the fuel mileage that the rest of the saws do. The tank seems smaller also. That might be the problem. Also seems to be the weakest of the bunch. Btw all my saws are purely stock.
> 
> My go to saw right now is the Echo 355. Might be because it's the cheapest and I feel like I'm saving money by wearing out the cheapest saw. I've had it about 8 months also. Check their warranty as compared to the 90 day Stihl warranty. Also half the price.
> 
> ...



Send the 020t to @lonewolf. He can get it fixed up for you and have it running good as new.


----------



## Conquistador3 (May 11, 2017)

I don't know about your area, but here Jonsered is presently running a promotion on the CS2236T, which is really nothing more than a Zenoah GZ3500 with Jonsered decals. 
Well worth checking.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 11, 2017)

Well, I screwed up and missed a Bloomington dealer having a 20% off event next weekend. Called him and ordered a 355t with the 14" bar, which he'll sell me at the discounted price when it comes in next week.  Now I wait for the call.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 11, 2017)

I just use the 372 xpw  Oooops , lol sorry forgot; 30cc hmm I don't have naw 30 cc


----------



## Jim Timber (May 11, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> I just use the 372 xpw  Oooops , lol sorry forgot; 30cc hmm I don't have naw 30 cc



I had my 2166 in a man-lift taking down an unsafe birch a couple weeks ago. Didn't have my Echo at home and wanted that tree gone before it fell on our house (it's storm season up here). The pull from the chain cutting caused the crown to move about 5". Glad I rented the lift! But working that saw at arms length over the cage was hard on my neck. Over-head and out of position stuff causes me a bunch of problems with my nerve damage (not just limited to my hands), so the new Echo will be a nice gift to myself. My doc's want me to stay active.

I inherited a couple wild things and I think a 50cc Jonny along with a Stihl FS91 when my sister made her hubby move to the suburbs from a 2.5 acre wooded lot. I muffler modded one of the wild things (prior to giving it to my sister), and haven't touched the other two saws. Last I heard he locked up 'my' WT, but claimed he fixed it - god knows what they did to it since it was taken to a shop for repair. That Jonny might be a good 'un, I just haven't gotten around to looking yet. They're all smaller than I normally run. That's why my 352 hasn't seen wood in over a year. Fired right up the other day though.


----------



## david1332 (May 11, 2017)

I own both the 201tcm and the 355t. I think both are amazing saws, however I don't like the smaller tanks on the 355. But I can live with that! My vote would be for the 355t so you can buy two and have a backup!


----------



## Jim Timber (May 11, 2017)

Nothing a little funnel won't fix.


----------



## david1332 (May 11, 2017)

I meant the small capacity


----------



## Jim Timber (May 11, 2017)

Oh, I've got the small cap size stuck in my head because that's really the only complaint that keeps showing up about them.

What kind of run time do you usually get on a tank?


----------



## david1332 (May 11, 2017)

Never really tracked it but I know it's less than my 201


----------



## ropensaddle (May 12, 2017)

Maybe im a glutton for punishment but I use my samurai for the small stuff then drag up the jonny red 2252 or the 372 xpw.


----------



## benjo75 (May 12, 2017)

You must have got rain last night too.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 12, 2017)

benjo75 said:


> You must have got rain last night too.


Yes still raining this is my second day off in 3 weeks straight 14 hours per day. I'm enjoying it  Of course overtime was ok too


----------



## benjo75 (May 12, 2017)

Same here. About 2 more weeks of trees on houses.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 12, 2017)

benjo75 said:


> Same here. About 2 more weeks of trees on houses.


Good on ya Ben make hay my friend. I took a job so i'm only doing my thing when it suits me now!


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (May 12, 2017)

I'm happy with my 355t. If you one hand from a bucket or need something lighter for your hands you can try a ms150t or a ms192t with a 150 bar and chain. The 192 will last about a year but it is light and priced right.


----------



## BC WetCoast (May 12, 2017)

Jeff Lovstrom runs a bunch of crews, had some 355t's and punted them all for 201's if I remember correctly. You may want to ask him.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 13, 2017)

BC WetCoast said:


> Jeff Lovstrom runs a bunch of crews, had some 355t's and punted them all for 201's if I remember correctly. You may want to ask him.





jefflovstrom said:


> If you are not putting high demand on that Echo 355T and not worrying about production, then that is the best HO saw ever!
> Jeff



So, yeah...


----------



## Jim Timber (May 19, 2017)

The new 355t came home today. $300 after tax.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 19, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> The new 355t came home today. $300 after tax.


I've always liked those little echos light weight = smooth


----------



## Jim Timber (May 19, 2017)

I got to start it for the first time at the store, so no one's ever run it but me thus far. Now to remove the limiter caps and get it dialed in.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 19, 2017)

Now to think about how I want to change the muffler outlet port. The screen is a nice template for a new one.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 20, 2017)

My outlet port ended up a little bigger than I intended, so I'm running the screen for now. From what little I ran it, it's going to be a fun one! She pulls quick to the 14K rev limit, and I can't get it to load in a 5" old ash log (can't hear it anyway). Once it stops raining, I'll have to see if I've got some bigger wood out back and get to turning screws with the tach.











Only needed to trim the plastic a little.






It isn't even all that loud. So far, so good.


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

I was gunna say go echo. Some the guys I've worked with had the 201t and once they get to 12" of wood they ask for a bigger or better saw. I have the 360t echo and only complaint I have is stock echo bars suck kock n balls. Do yourself a favor and buy a stihl 200t bar and use carlton and stihl brand chain. The oregon crap will wear out a clutch kwik.


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Need a vid of your saw and dont get fed up with the saw yet. They are slow to break in and stretch out but when they do they will hang with the strong 200t but lack the rpm in a light cut


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

The chit ripper and trim saw


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Hope you can make it to some mn gtg or Wisconsin gtg this year. Top handle races are a blast. Big, small old or new the Lil saws bring on some smiles and laughs.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 20, 2017)

The only thing I'm fed up with is the damn rain!  I knew about the rev limiter going in so that's not an issue. I've got piles of logs up north, and just moved a nice bed load of 10" birch up there a couple weeks ago. I might need to hit up someone's CL ad for free wood to get a chunk to bury this one in to tune it. I want to use it to take down a big ash branch in my yard (also 10"), so I'd be happier if it was dialed in for that.

I was thinking the same thing about a Stihl bar, or maybe getting a Sugi lightweight. I need to save some pennies first. 

I'm down for another GTG. I had fun at Andy's whenever that was, '12? Been too long anyway.

I'll also do some video for sure.


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> The only thing I'm fed up with is the damn rain!  I knew about the rev limiter going in so that's not an issue. I've got piles of logs up north, and just moved a nice bed load of 10" birch up there a couple weeks ago. I might need to hit up someone's CL ad for free wood to get a chunk to bury this one in to tune it. I want to use it to take down a big ash branch in my yard (also 10"), so I'd be happier if it was dialed in for that.
> 
> I was thinking the same thing about a Stihl bar, or maybe getting a Sugi lightweight. I need to save some pennies first.
> 
> ...


Well if your ever down near cottage grove bring your saw with. And yes a 200 and 201 bar will fit your saw saw is. My old echo 360t of 6 years of hard use is still going strong took 1st place in top handle races. Thought I was in trouble when I heard a cs 355t MMWS fire up sounded like a pissed off mofo but we hung well together in the races. Youl like your saw but the biggest thing I can say is ditch the stock oregon chain asap. It won't hold a edge long. I've been pleased with the carlton and stihl brand semi chiz and full chiz stihl, they are worth the money 10x


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> My outlet port ended up a little bigger than I intended, so I'm running the screen for now. From what little I ran it, it's going to be a fun one! She pulls quick to the 14K rev limit, and I can't get it to load in a 5" old ash log (can't hear it anyway). Once it stops raining, I'll have to see if I've got some bigger wood out back and get to turning screws with the tach.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have put thought into a exit tube for my exhaust, worked wonders with my old reed port echo that went from slow rpm to screaming like a spoiled child.


----------



## chucker (May 20, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> The only thing I'm fed up with is the damn rain!  I knew about the rev limiter going in so that's not an issue. I've got piles of logs up north, and just moved a nice bed load of 10" birch up there a couple weeks ago. I might need to hit up someone's CL ad for free wood to get a chunk to bury this one in to tune it. I want to use it to take down a big ash branch in my yard (also 10"), so I'd be happier if it was dialed in for that.
> 
> I was thinking the same thing about a Stihl bar, or maybe getting a Sugi lightweight. I need to save some pennies first.
> 
> ...


to sad that you don't have some of the nicer red oaks like at the cabin jim... they would be a good test for the little mickey mouse. I need to do a M.M. on the 435t to let the danged thing breath an exhale!


----------



## chucker (May 20, 2017)

C.O.P.D. of the restricted mini class...


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

chucker said:


> to sad that you don't have some of the nicer red oaks like at the cabin jim... they would be a good test for the little mickey mouse. I need to do a M.M. on the 455t to let the danged thing breath an exhale!


Elm is plentiful in mn. That will give a saw a good workout.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 20, 2017)

bikemike said:


> I have put thought into a exit tube for my exhaust, worked wonders with my old reed port echo that went from slow rpm to screaming like a spoiled child.



3/4" would probably be perfect. This 1" is a little bigger than ideal based on my gut instinct. I've got a tube on the 352 after messing up that port cover and making a saw that'd kill your ears and lost it's torque. I forget what size that one is, but I can measure it later if you care? That one will free rev to 17K but still seems to make the most power around 9500 in the wood.

There's oodles of free trees on CL down here, Dave. I hauled the birch North because no one would take it and the grass was dying under it. They took all the little piddly crap (complete with mushrooms  ) that would've gone in our yard waste bin, but left the good log chunks. Didn't make any sense to me. So I took the good stuff up and added it to my splitting pile.


----------



## chucker (May 20, 2017)

! TRUE THAT, BUT IT ISNT AS TOUGH TO SAW AS IT IS TO TRY AN SPLIT!! LOL NOODELING WILL BE A FAIR TEST FOR SURE... (danged finger's) LOL


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Guys at the next mn gtg I will also have my new 22.3cc 150t. It packs a pretty good Lil punch now that it's about broke inn. Hell il run full bar with it. Stock they are only good to 4" and no pushing


----------



## chucker (May 20, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> 3/4" would probably be perfect. This 1" is a little bigger than ideal based on my gut instinct. I've got a tube on the 352 after messing up that port cover and making a saw that'd kill your ears and lost it's torque. I forget what size that one is, but I can measure it later if you care? That one will free rev to 17K but still seems to make the most power around 9500 in the wood.
> 
> There's oodles of free trees on CL down here, Dave. I hauled the birch North because no one would take it and the grass was dying under it. They took all the little piddly crap (complete with mushrooms  ) that would've gone in our yard waste bin, but left the good log chunks. Didn't make any sense to me. So I took the good stuff up and added it to my splitting pile.


for sure jim, most people don't know good free wood if it landed in their yard for free... lol ? unless you loaded it in the stoves for them all heating season!


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> 3/4" would probably be perfect. This 1" is a little bigger than ideal based on my gut instinct. I've got a tube on the 352 after messing up that port cover and making a saw that'd kill your ears and lost it's torque. I forget what size that one is, but I can measure it later if you care? That one will free rev to 17K but still seems to make the most power around 9500 in the wood.
> 
> There's oodles of free trees on CL down here, Dave. I hauled the birch North because no one would take it and the grass was dying under it. They took all the little piddly crap (complete with mushrooms  ) that would've gone in our yard waste bin, but left the good log chunks. Didn't make any sense to me. So I took the good stuff up and added it to my splitting pile.


I've been pretty happy with staying with exits that are about the size of the carb venturi. But my 360t might get a bolt on tube like the set up you fabricated looks good and screen optional for certain jobs


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Oh yeah I did forget that I also have a old husky 136 carb I bored out to directly fit a 360t. Still needs a carb Kit but it did run and idle in the sub zero temps currently still running stock carb on my saw


----------



## Jim Timber (May 20, 2017)

I put the screen in to add some restriction. I kinda got carried away with the die grinder when I was opening the passage in the mounting plate.  Wasn't supposed to be as big as it ended up.


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> I put the screen in to add some restriction. I kinda got carried away with the die grinder when I was opening the passage in the mounting plate.  Wasn't supposed to be as big as it ended up.


That's ok tho. It's a replaceable bolt on part. Make a few different sizes and that can tune a saw for different loads of power n torque


----------



## Jim Timber (May 20, 2017)

bikemike said:


> Guys at the next mn gtg I will also have my new 22.3cc 150t. It packs a pretty good Lil punch now that it's about broke inn. Hell il run full bar with it. Stock they are only good to 4" and no pushing



I looked at those, and they seem to do well with some tweaking. In the end, the entry price of the Echo and the speed of cutting won out. If I end up doing pruning on the side I may end up with one. Nice little package!




bikemike said:


> That's ok tho. It's a replaceable bolt on part. Make a few different sizes and that can tune a saw for different loads of power n torque



Yep, that's why I didn't care - it's not like I have a bunch of time into it. If these are the same size as the 352's (which I think they are), I'll be trying it on that one and trying the one I have on it with the 355t as well.


----------



## bikemike (May 20, 2017)

Yeah my echo isn't scared of anything big, heavy, hard or soft. But yeah as a climber the Lil saw was a gem when hanging out rope n saddle when my boss got 2 of the 150t. He would not let me pull the caps to tune it to run good so I bought mine never fueled and modded it timing, exhaust and caps and run it fat for break in. It's been good to me but it has its Lil qwirks like plugging up in the clutch cover so I ground out a Lil slot to hopefully let chit sling out. It was designed to let chip sling out the bottom and front top side probably to help prevent the user from getting covered with chip.


----------



## bikemike (May 21, 2017)

Well Jim and chucker. The races are on for chisago county fair this year. Hope yall can bring the top handle saws and let the chip fly


----------



## Jim Timber (May 22, 2017)

I'm not super happy with this tune, but it cuts well. The low adjustment doesn't seem to do all that much to the idle speed, but it really hoses the throttle response. I don't know if that's the CDI messing with things or what? Based on the service manual, this has 6 degrees advance at idle and goes up to 32ish at 11K (I forget exactly), before then limiting out at 13,5-14,5K. Mine sits on the limiter at 13,9-14K depending how fat I've got it.


----------



## chucker (May 22, 2017)

nice! strong all the way through... ? no stall ??


----------



## Jim Timber (May 22, 2017)

If I mash it into the wood, it'll drop down below 11K, but I've gotta lean on it for that. 

I need to get some real chain to see what she's capable of.

Starts from cold or hot like buttah (duh, it's an Echo). I just don't like the slight bog when I jump on the throttle. Maybe it needs more break-in? This has less than 20 minutes run time on it.


----------



## bikemike (May 22, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> If I mash it into the wood, it'll drop down below 11K, but I've gotta lean on it for that.
> 
> I need to get some real chain to see what she's capable of.
> 
> Starts from cold or hot like buttah (duh, it's an Echo). I just don't like the slight bog when I jump on the throttle. Maybe it needs more break-in? This has less than 20 minutes run time on it.


Youl like it when it's broke in. Turn ur low needle out a tad bit that will help with the Lil bit of stall when you pop the throttle. Runs great


----------



## Jim Timber (May 22, 2017)

I like it now, but it's got some room for improvement.

I'll definitely play around with the low adjustment a bit more. Not being able to make the idle move with it messed me up.


----------



## bikemike (May 23, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> I like it now, but it's got some room for improvement.
> 
> I'll definitely play around with the low adjustment a bit more. Not being able to make the idle move with it messed me up.


That screw won't always do a whole lot with idle speed. Turn idle up a bit higher then richen it up till its consistent, then lower idle speed screw to desired rpm hope you trimmed your limiter caps or removed them completely. Your saw will free up more it may take a gallon or more tI'll it's loose


----------



## Jim Timber (May 23, 2017)

Limiter caps are the first thing to go.  I never started it at home before removing them. I'd clipped the tabs at first since I wanted to try using them for screwdriver guides, but they're in the trash now. Can't tune a saw with those, and I'm not burning one up in winter because I can't get fat enough.


----------



## Jim Timber (May 27, 2017)

Turned out I had the L jet a hair too rich. Revs like a raped ape now.


----------



## bikemike (May 27, 2017)

Just replace my tank vent and fuel filter on the 360t. It was vapor locking at low throttle and idle now went to rich all across the bord some fiNE tuning and back out to make me the money


----------



## Jim Timber (Jun 4, 2017)

Got a new Oregon chain and made a new outlet pipe out of 3/4" and now it'll only drop to 11,8K leaning on it in that same log. Couldn't bring myself to spend $22 on a 52 tooth loop of Steal.

This thing is going to be fun when I get past the first tank and actually break it in.


----------



## bikemike (Jun 4, 2017)

Jim Timber said:


> Got a new Oregon chain and made a new outlet pipe out of 3/4" and now it'll only drop to 11,8K leaning on it in that same log. Couldn't bring myself to spend $22 on a 52 tooth loop of Steal.
> 
> This thing is going to be fun when I get past the first tank and actually break it in.


It won't be free till you got a gallon or so through it. But youl love it and the stihl 201t crew will be hating saying they have dull chains or dirty filter


----------

