# New Kubota Engine For Sp4012 Carlton?



## stump-dude

Has Anyone Heard Or Preferably Had Any Experience With The New 33hp Kubota Diesel Engine Option On The Carlton 4012? Heard It Might Be A Bit Top Heavy? Prone To Tipping? Also IS THERE Anyone That Has A 4012 With 4x4 Option?

Dynamic Stump Grinding Inc.


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## Bigstumps

They demoed one to me a couple of weeks ago - awesome!!! It comes with the dual wheels, really no more top heavy than my current Rayco, cuts 3 to 1 over my Rayco gas. The 4WD seemed to work fine. I'm just getting everything arranged to make the purchase - should have it in my barn within two weeks.

That Kubota engine was very strong and smooth. Carlton has only been building them for a few months but the demo model the factory brought down, which was the 1st they had built last spring, had over 500 hours on it and worked great.


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## stump-dude

that is great news, im in vancouver, canada and they dont have one to demo, but i have the sp2000-4 with the 20hp kohler engine and love how over engineered it is, its a 93' model and its going strong as the day it was purchased. it has paid for itself more times than i care to mention. in saying that... i placed my order for one 3 days ago, but its going to take 4 weeks to get... something about their paint booth being down? anyway, thanks for the great info really helps out.

DYNAMIC STUMP GRINDING INC. 
VANCOUVER, BC, CANADA


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## Forreststump

I am demoing the 4012 w/ the Kubota next week. I live outside of Detroit and the closest dealer to me is 4 1/2 hours away. Big Stumps, how was the visibility? Did you like the Sanvik Dura Disk? I sold my RG50 last summer after I crushed both of my feet at a housefire (i am a fireman) and could not keep up with the payments from my wheelchair. I am back in service now though. My wife says no more trailers and the 4012 will go into the back of my 1 ton. I have never ran a Carlton before and am looking forward to it.


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## Bigstumps

Like all the small machines you can't see what you are doing. You more or less cut by "feel" and sound. I've cut so many over the years I don't even notice how hard it is to see.

Carlton does offer the remote on this machine. I haven't seen one equipped with it but I have seen it on their larger track unit and it was pretty nice!!

My salesman is bringing my machine this week!!! Already sold the Rayco so I have backlog of some backyard stumps to put her to the test.


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## Forreststump

Bigstumps, let us know how the machine works out for you. With my RG50 I had great visibility as I was basically right on top of the stump. You still cut by feel, but it was nice to ba able to see anyhow. I am looking forward to getting back into it. I am buying SOMETHING, probably the Carlton, the first week of April. Heading to Florida for three weeks in a couple of weeks, so no need until then. Everything here is still covered in ice so no worries. Again, I would love to hear a report on this from an actual user and not a salesman.
regards,
kirk


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## Bigstumps

Got it delivered today!! Hate to hear about your weather, it was sunny and 70s here - spring is going to come fast now. Hopefully work will pick up with everyone getting outside.

Cut about 15 stumps. So far so good. The whole machine is very nice, much nicer than the Rayco it replaced (of course the Rayco was paid for many times over.) It has hydraulic steering and really moves at a good pace. On and off the trailer it is noticeably faster.

The engine runs really well. No smoking and pretty quiet. I have a Deutz on my bigger machine ( I know the Deutz is much larger but) and the Kubota is much smoother, seems to purr. Really runs as smooth as the little Kohler it replaced.

Now for the good part. I have been spoiled over the years with a my big machine and have always dreaded using the portables. The problem is inaccessible (??) stumps are becoming a bigger part of my business. This machine seems to be almost twice as fast grinding as the 27 Kohler.

The increase in grinding speed and way faster travel are going to make me much quicker overall.

1st day, 1st impression - very happy. Time will tell.


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## Forreststump

I am glad to hear you like it. I recieved information on the Bandit's today. Their factory is about 21/2 hours from here. They make their 2100 with a 35 hp Cat Diesel that is supposed to have 70-something lbs of torque, but I am still leaning towards the Carlton. The Bandit is pricey (23k and change) and no Sandvik wheel.

I am happy that you are liking your new machine. Keep us posted as you get some more use out of it. I am going to have to make a decision here soon and like I said, I am leaning towards the Carlton. After using the RG50, I too am afraid of getting something smaller, however this seems like a good all around compromise. between size and price. For me to make money, it is all about volume as I only do stumps, no trees. I can't be sitting in front of a 40 inch stump for an hour and a half and expect to come out too far ahead.

Like I said, I am glad that you like it and look forward to hearing more "news from the field."


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## stumper63

Got a picture of the Bandit 2100 w/ the CAT engine from a Wespur rep. radiator looks pretty huge. Would be interested to know if you, forrestump, are able to go to the factory and see one for yourself. Price they quoted me was 23,700 for the CAT 34hp, plus 3,100 more for 4x4. Add shipping and you're up to nearly 28K for a grinder! Better be productive.....
I'm not sure what type of wheel and teeth come with the bandit. I'm supposed to look at one they have available near here ,2wd,w/ the 35hp Vanguard engine this week. We'll see.

Thanks for the input on the Carlton, keep us posted with the findings, seems like the best deal for the money so far.


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## SWAMPY036

If I were to have only 1 stump grinder would this machine do it all with the kubota motor. Looking into getting a grinder and think it would be better to have one that could get those hard to reach stumps but I also want to go after the big ones to will the 4012 do it


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## Forreststump

Stumpy63,
I have not been to the factory however I just recieved the literature from Bandit in the mail. According to the factory rep, they only make the 2100 Cat w/ a remote because you can not see the stump at all. The Carlton you can get either w/ or without the remote, however, most guys say that you learn to grind by feel. 

I have not been to the factory, however the rep is supposed to be in my area next week and said he would call me and bring one by to check out. 
I will keep you posted.

I believe Bandit uses teeth either manufactured by/for their machines. They are pocket teeth and are priced at 4.50ea for the pins (teeth) and 12.50ea for the pockets. 

I am still leaning towards the Carlton w/ the Kubota. It has 6 ft/lbs less torque (66 vs 72 for the bandit), but it also has the Sandvik cutter wheel and is less expensive. 

The tongue extention is standard with the Carlton if you don't get 4wd, (790.00 to add to the Bandit) so if you do not get 4wd, it will help you get un-stuck should you manage to do so.

I also downloaded the maintenance manual from Carltons website www.stumpcutters.biz and it looks like it is easy to do all the routine, and non-routine maintenance (ie. adjust belts, replace bearings, etc.)

Swampy 063 A machine that size will do just fine. It seems to be a good compromise between price, "grindability", and accessablity, especially if you are not grinding huge stumps day in and day out otherwise, I would go bigger. It will have no trouble doing the larger stumps, it just takes a bit longer than if you have a larger machine, mostly because you have to move the chips more often.


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## Bigstumps

A quick report after grinding all day yesterday. We have really got some nice spring weather going so it was a great day to grind.

After a full day I can quickly sum it up by saying I am more impressed with the machine than I could have hoped for.

Sandvik wheel is amazing! Does not throw chips or make near the mess. I don't do clean up but it still makes for a much better job. I also believe the chance for busting windows will be reduced. The wheel also gives me a very smooth cut.

Don't know if the cutting power comes from the engine or the wheel, and I don't care, but I am cutting very fast for a small machine.

Engine runs smooth and quiet. Not much vibration and the radiator seems to stay put.

The self propelled part works good. The machine is very fast from stump to stump. Haven't had to test the 4wd but it seems to work. I have played with the blade and I have plenty of pushing power.

I think on most jobs I may be overall as fast with this machine as I am with my big tow behind when I consider set up and moving between stumps. Of course on the 4 footers nothing beats a big tow behind.

I'm still like a kid with a new toy. I'll report back after I get more work time on it.


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## Forreststump

I am glad to hear it bigstumps! Keep us informed. What sort of time does it take to grind an average, properly flushed, 30" stump? I am looking forward to my demo. 
regars,
kirk


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## stumper63

Got to demo a Bandit 2100 2wd with the Vanguard 35HP engine today. Way faster cutting than my 252! That's with the cheap teeth/pockets that come from Bandit factory. Don't know why they don't do more for the teeth. They cut pretty well, but both stumps (24 & 30") were fairly soft plum stumps. 
The hydraulic steering was nice, just be careful not to run over your feet! Ground speed is really fast too, almost have to break a stride in high mode and fast engine speed. Articulating steering axle seems nice, though not sure how much advantage it brings. Anyone know? Controls were smooth, responsive, though the forward/reverse controls are backwards from Vermeer's. Took a little getting used to. Seems very solidly built. Bearings big and wide. Engine purred right along, smooth. Machine vibration was low too. Overall, nice grinder. Here's the things I thought could be improved.

1. Guard coming out above cutting wheel sticks about 1" too far forward. Won't clear the top of stump when you get down that far. Have to back machine up a hair to keep working way down. Seems funny they missed this one. Maybe you'd get used to it, but my little 252 doesn't make me do that.
2. Hydraulic levers a bit too close together, couldn't operate with gloves on. You know how at the end of each pass it's just a quick movement for both levers, can't do it unless gripping top of lever, levers not two fingers width apart, and no, I don't have sausage fingers. Looks like you could bend them all out a little.
3. They have these round guards protecting the hydraulic motors for each of the drive wheels. I'll try to attach pic's. Really get in way of chips moving underneath machine. Could also hang up on chip pile, but that wasn't much of a problem today. Maybe the extra protection for the drive motors are worth the tradeoff?
4. Engagement handle for cutter wheel has to be pushed forward to engage, pulled backwards for dis-engage. Seems backwards to me, if you had to stop the wheel in a hurry you have to reach way up towards the wheel and pull the handle back, instead of a quick, continuous movement forward. Also, seems like handle should be mounted closer to operator station. Puts you pretty close to wheel when engaging. BTW, the engagement worked great.
5. Throttle also backwards. You push to increase engine speed, pull back to idle, should be just the reverse. I'm comparing this to my Vermeer 252, but been plenty of times I was glad to shut her down without reaching out and having to pull back, just one forward motion to shut down.
6. Seemed a little low on torque when down in the dirt, but still much better than my 25hp Kohler. They offer the big CAT 34hp diesel w/ 72 ft/lbs torque, but it looks huge and heavy, also $7000 more than the Vanguard. The vanguard is rated somewhere around 55 I think.

All in all the rep was great, good machine. Would like to demo the 4012 like Bigstumps just got, just have to figure out where I've got to fly to see one. Closest dealer 5 hours away in southern Oregon, and doesn't carry the Kubota or 4x4. 

If the pictures load the white machine is the one I demo'd and the blue one is the CAT diesel 4x4, picture from Bandit.

Anyone have any comments on how this machine compares to the Carlton 4012? What do you think of my observations for improvements to Bandit?

Thanks


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## Forreststump

Excellent review Stumper63. Bigstumps just got his Kubota powered 4012 and is quite happy with it. I was supposed to demo one this week, however Ice and snow kept the dealer home (closest is 4 1/2 hours away). Will have to do the demo next week. I will let you know what I find. 
Regards,
Kirk


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## stumper63

Hey Kirk, Forreststumps:
Did you get to demo the 4012 diesel yet? What were your impressions? Is Carlton offering any discount on their machines now, or is it full list + shipping?

Hi Bigstumps:
Any further impressions now that you've had your 4012 for a few weeks?
Thanks,
Stumper63


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## Bigstumps

Been running it for two weeks now - pretty much have it down. Nothing negative to report yet. 


Love the ground speed. 

I don't clean up but I have been using the blade to push the majority of the stuff back in the holes. Problem with this is I do it as a favor but the customers then look at me like I ought to finish grade the place while I'm at it.

The Kubota is typical Kubota - great.


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## Forreststump

The dealer cancelled on me (twice now). He is 4 1/2 hours away though and I only have a day a week or so that I can meet up with him. I'm heading to Florida on Friday for 2 weeks and when I get back, I am going to drive to Illinois, demo the diesel and the 35 vanguard and bring one home. 

regards
kirk


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## stump-dude

*yehaw!*

just recieved my stumper today(4012) with the kubota, sandvik and wireless remote, man what a beautiful machine, and the remote makes it a breeze! havnt ground any stumps yet but im officially in love! cant wait to get grinding!


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## stumper63

Stump-dude,

Let us know ASAP of first impressions. There's a few of us out here wondering if we should take the leap to the Kubota 4012. Did you get the 
4x4 option?
I demo'ed a 35hp Vanguard 2wd 4012 w/ wireless remote and Sandvik wheel a couple days ago. Pretty impressive for a gas engine. Was my first experience w/ wireless. Way cool. Unit didn't bog down for depth of cut, ruggedly built. Did you get to compare the Vanguard against the Kubota before purchase? 

Let us know if you think you're getting your money's worth with the wireless remote. A pretty big chunk of change, would love to hear if it improves overall performance, safety, comfort. I'm still sitting on the fence on that one. Any thoughts?

Stumper63


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## stumper63

Hey Bigstumps,

I forgot to ask you the other day if you had demo'ed a Vanguard 4012 against the Kubota before you purchased. I demo'ed the Vanguard a couple days ago and was pretty impressed. Not much chance of getting to see or demo a Kubota though. Dealer closest to me isn't planning on bringing any in. Do you think the extra torque of the diesel is really helping your productivity? I would think it should, another 10 lbs torque or so, is that right? Does yours have the wireless remote? If not, how's the visibility, even tho seems like you go mostly by feel and engine sound.

We'll see which way Forreststump goes in a few weeks, see what his thoughts are.
Thanks for giving us all your impressions.

Stumper63


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## Bigstumps

I didn't demo the Vanguard. Saw the Kubota cut on a demo and had to have it. Mine is 4 X 4 with a scrape blade but no remote. I've got a lot of experience with a Rayco Super Jr so I am used to cutting without clear vision of the stump.

So far nothing but love for this machine. I am now using it on jobs I would have always used my tow behind on. Don't get me wrong, I'm still keeping/using my big machine, I just no longer avoid using my self propelled.


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## stump-dude

so offical report: ground about 5 stumps today and its cut my site time in 1/3, instead of taking an hour its taking me 15-20 min! the remote... i cant imagine not having one, i used the hand controls just to see what it would be like without the remote and it is imposible to see anything, the visibility is terrible because of the engine size. the sadvik wheel has impressed me to no end, i probably wouldnt have to use any shields but dont take the risk. it is an amazing experience using the remote. the only really bad thing i have to say about the whole set up is that the remote makes the hydraulics - all or nothing, so if you take off on high range u wheelie a little and if u let off the when in high reverse it nose wheelies, there is alot of weight on the cutter wheel end. the standard double wide wheels are a great addition, and cant imagine the kubota edition without it. the remote is smaller than i thought it was going to be and it is magnetic on the back, so u dont ever have to put it down and forget it, just stick it to the machine when not in use. it was 4c here this morning and i held the pre-heat on for about 20seconds and it fired up right away. its quiet so quiet that i dont have to use my hearing protection any more. other than that... very impressed and im in love!
will be back in a week to give u a weekly update... as i have a 8' stump coming up. wish me luck
chow


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## Bigstumps

Stump - Dude,

Glad to hear we are in agreement. The big radiator does make it harder to see than on my old Kohler Powered machine but I am used to it.

It does amaze me how smooth and quiet that engine is!!! So far I haven't changed a single Sandvik tooth - 30 hours.

3/29 Update - 45 hours still on original teeth - cuts great. Kubota is very nice - smooooooth and quiet. Sandvik teeth are holding up great, of course we don't have rock here, but they are holding their edge. Tightened the belt a couple of times - takes about 3 minutes. I'm going to change engine oil at 50 hours. So Far - So Good!!


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## stumper63

Hi Bigstumps,

Can you tell me the weight of your 4012? Carlton website doesn't list weight w/ the Kubota and 4x4. I think your machine is the one I want to get, tho stump-dude's glowing recommendation of the wireless remote sounds tempting. I currently run the 252 w/ 25 Kohler, can't see much now anyway, so not sure the extra money for me is necessary. Have you noticed you don't have to push the machine around since you now have 4x4? I mean to get up over the chips, will 4x4 just propel you over w/o having to back off and move them out of the way? I may be able to visit Carlton factory soon, going to Bowling Green, do you know how long it would take to drive to Spartanburg from there? BG is about one hour nw of nashville. Would love to demo one like you've got. Gotta love your 45 hours w/ the teeth!

Thanks for the response.


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## Mowingman

I think you are looking at a 5 or 6 hour drive to Spartanburg from Bowling Green.


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## Bigstumps

Don't know the weight for sure, I'm not sure my salesman knew for sure - it is definately heavier than my Rayco - I would guess 1800 lbs.

The 4wd will climb anything. There is a high and low selection using a switch. In high it moves around at a good pace. Go to low to grind and then further slow down the speed with a knob. The whole drive system works well. It is always in 4wd and does have more climbing power in low. 

I have a blade on the other end and can push the piles pretty easily. There is no way I wouldn't be able to climb a pile while cutting.

Can't say enough about the engine. Runs smooth, doesn't smoke at all once it is warm, and it is quiet. Kubota really makes a nice engine.

Like you I am used to not seeing what I grind, so that doesn't bother me. By the time you add wireless, adding the wired remote option then the wireless it was like $4,000!! Maybe if this was bought as my only grinder but that is a lot, especially on top of a diesel 4WD.

So far I'm happy. As the hours add up I just keep thinking - so many more and it's paid for itself. (not that far off when I deduct what I got out of the Jr) Then I'll be really happy!!


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## stump-dude

has anyone heard of running the new kubota engine on biodeisel? its about the same price here as normal diesel, and it would be good for advertising not to mention the enviroment.


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## stumper63

Stump-dude,

Any more impressions of the machine? How are the teeth holding up? Do you know the weight of your machine? Hoping to see a Kubota equipped machine soon.

Stumper63


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## stump-dude

3 teeth broken so far 2 long 1 short, 15hrs on the machine, i live in a really rocky area. almost need to do some minimal sharpening but otherwise all good! love the remote control... attracts so much attention and looks so profesional when entering a job site. love this machine! dont know exact weight but give carlton a call on their toll free line and they help u out straight away, still waiting for my manual....!


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## Bigstumps

They've got some "Rock Buster" teeth they showed me. I don't need them down here in the sand but you may want to investigate. Real thick curved carbide made to shatter the rock.

Going fishing today!! I do enjoy the flexibility grinding stumps gives me!!!


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## stump-dude

yaa, i just put them on about 2 hrs ago seem to be doing well, no broken teeth since.


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## Bigstumps

85 hours still love it. Sandvik is the way to go!!

Stump-dude, how are the Rock Busters??


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## stump-dude

the rock buster teeth are great, no broken teeth yet @ 35hrs, had to sharpen the cutter teeth at 30hrs tho. love the machine and have an emotion attachment to my remote.


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## Bigstumps

I saw the wireless work on the track machine. Liked the idea but didn't think I'd use the little Kubota enough to justify the expense. If I'd known how much I'd use and like the rest of the machine I'd have sprung for the wireless.

Next year I may replace my tow behind with a big portable and I'll definately get the wireless!!


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## stump-dude

yaa, my kubota is my primary machine, i have a 13hp husquvarna aswell for tighter spots but use my carlton about 95% of the time. main business is in back yards.


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## dozerdogue

stump-dude said:


> the rock buster teeth are great, no broken teeth yet @ 35hrs, had to sharpen the cutter teeth at 30hrs tho. love the machine and have an emotion attachment to my remote.



What did you sharpen your teeth with? Also how exactly did you do it? I have the 7015trx and think my teeth are due for some sharpening since they have lost there edge.


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## stump-dude

buy a green stone grinding wheel, any company that sells abrasive discs will have them. then sharpen away, just make sure you hav a mask, the amount of green dust it makes is astonishing, also wear your oldest clothes or a disposable suit mabey. works really well!


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## stumper63

Hey Kirk - Forreststump!

Did you end up with a 4012 yet? Which one did you get? Share your initial observations if you would, thanks
Stumper63


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## stump-dude

has anyone thought of using a debris vacuum along side a grinder. i am a lazy guy and since shoveling large amounts of wood shavings all day isnt my cup of tea, i was wondering what would save me time and money and a sore back.
now billy goat and eliet sell heavy duty debris vac's for about $2500 and they weight round 300lbs, if we had to connect it up to the back of the 4012 and fabricate a trailer to attach to the grinder imagine how much time we'd save from reversing and clearing(manually). i spend more time shovelling than i do grinding it seems - 20min grinding, 30min shoveling(using a snow shovel - holds more) so i thought id throw that idea out there and see if anyones tried it before, seems logical to me and im seriously considering trying it. all thoughts would be appreciated. thnx

DYNAMIC STUMP GRINDING


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## Curbside

I've thought about it. I used to own a 20HP billy goat lawn vac. Although I never tried it I can bet that the impellars would just stick up with mud. If it was dry sandy soil it would probably work to some extent but what happens is the heavy particles like dirt and mud and sand don't all make it down the hose. The hose begins to get heavy with the heaveir partuculate and then begins to gain resistance. The wetter mud sticks to the impellars and then it just looses its vacuum. When we sucked up muddy wet leaves the impellars would get coated with mud and mush etc and it looses it's efficency also to make the hose work properly it needs to be shaken every once in a while to keep everything moving in the hose.


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## howel07264

*Don't remove the chips!*



stump-dude said:


> has anyone thought of using a debris vacuum along side a grinder. i am a lazy guy and since shoveling large amounts of wood shavings all day isnt my cup of tea, i was wondering what would save me time and money and a sore back.
> now billy goat and eliet sell heavy duty debris vac's for about $2500 and they weight round 300lbs, if we had to connect it up to the back of the 4012 and fabricate a trailer to attach to the grinder imagine how much time we'd save from reversing and clearing(manually). i spend more time shovelling than i do grinding it seems - 20min grinding, 30min shoveling(using a snow shovel - holds more) so i thought id throw that idea out there and see if anyones tried it before, seems logical to me and im seriously considering trying it. all thoughts would be appreciated. th
> DYNAMIC STUMP GRINDING


I've been grinding stumps for 5 years now.done over 2000 jobs and NEVER shoveled chips.
I tell the customer up front that they a paying me to professionally remove their stumps not to remove the chips or do their landscaping. I never loose a job because i won't remove chips. Theres no end to what a customer expects you to do for no extra pay.....only if you are willing to do it. Many times i tell the customer they can hire a local teen to work much cheaper that they can pay what i charge for an hours work.


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## btw

*4012 kubota*

Sold my vermeer 672 and 252 and bought the 4012 carlton with blade and the kubota and 4x4.The dealer didn't have a wireless machine on hand would have liked to have that option although it does cost nearly 4,000. I was going to get the rg50 super, but it was a long machine and 43,000! I am going grinding tomorrow I hope it works good. looks well built. I thought I could get by with one machine (rg50). So I guess I will be looking for a good used pull behind.Back to two machines!


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## kennertree

btw said:


> Sold my vermeer 672 and 252 and bought the 4012 carlton with blade and the kubota and 4x4.The dealer didn't have a wireless machine on hand would have liked to have that option although it does cost nearly 4,000. I was going to get the rg50 super, but it was a long machine and 43,000! I am going grinding tomorrow I hope it works good. looks well built. I thought I could get by with one machine (rg50). So I guess I will be looking for a good used pull behind.Back to two machines!



Did you get the sandvik wheel with your 4012?


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## stumper63

Hey BTW,

Let us know how your new 4012 worked this weekend. Some have said it works so well you may not have to get a second machine for most stumps. Anyway, keep us posted.

Stumper63


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## stump-dude

i dont remove chips from the job site either, but while grinding large stumps you gotta clear away the chip debris so u can see what youre grinding so you dont miss anything. the trx7015 is looking better and better and getting closer and closer.


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## stump-dude

BTW did you get the sandvik?


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## btw

*sandvic*

Yes I did it seems to work great. I had green teeth on my last machines and really liked them, so easy to change. I might miss that.


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## kennertree

The teeth on the sandvik wheel are real easy to cahnge too. Ive never changed greenteeth so i have nothing to compare it to. I think you will be pleased.


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## stumper63

Stump-dude,

Do you mean a trx7015 in addition to your 4012? Or is the 4012 not all you expected it to be? Do you do alot of large stumps?

Stumper63


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## Bigstumps

I do a lot of big stumps but am finding I use the tow behind way less than before the 4012. I am using the 4012 on a bunch of stumps I never would have attempted with my Super JR. I still get the giants though, that are nice to get the tow behind on.

If I knew I was going to use the 4012 this much I would have gotten the remote. Talked to the factory, can't make a lever control machine into a remote.

Next year I'll replace the tow behind with a large remote controlled self propelled!!!


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## stump-dude

Stump-dude,
Do you mean a trx7015 in addition to your 4012? Or is the 4012 not all you expected it to be? Do you do alot of large stumps?
Stumper63




yaa, want to add a trx7015 into the fleet as im finding im doing alot of 5 - 10' and larger stumps, i can do them with the 4012 but the jobs ive been doing lately are getting bigger and bigger, went to do a quote on a 20' diameter stump the other day, could do it with the 4012(is a bit rotten) but would take a long long time. the 4012 is way better than id have ever expected!


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## Bigstumps

stump-dude said:


> Stump-dude,
> Do you mean a trx7015 in addition to your 4012? Or is the 4012 not all you expected it to be? Do you do alot of large stumps?
> Stumper63
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yaa, want to add a trx7015 into the fleet the 4012 is way better than id have ever expected!



This is exactly my feeling and my plan for early '08


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## stump-dude

those 2 machines working in tandem would be a magic team!


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## stumper63

Hey Bigstumps, Stump-dude, and others with the Kubota 4012:

How does the machine do on soft lawns, any experience yet? Not sure, but the factory rep said he thought it weighed about 1800 lbs. My little 252 is 1100 lbs soaking wet, was wondering if you found much of a difference if you had been running a similar size machine to the 252.
Do you find the dual wheels are always necessary, or just in soft ground or slopes? I find I usually run w/o the duals on the 252 since I'm going thru gates all the time. Maybe the duals on the 4012 is easier to put on and take off.
Also, any problem not having an articulating axle on the steering end? Seems like Bandit, Vermeer, and Rayco's machines all have them now, but I don't know if they really make much difference, any thoughts?

Thanks for your input.
Stumper63
By the way, Stump-dude, what kind of tree had a 20 diameter? What a monster! Did you snap any pic's?


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## stump-dude

yaa the guy said he had a huge stump but i get people that say that and have a 5' stump. it was an old growth tree up here in canada, not sure if it was fir or cedar? was pretty old and rotten and had been ground before and buried.
as far as ive found, the dual wheels are much softer on the lawns, which is just plain physics(more surface area to spread weight) i keep them on all the time... i take them off only to go thru gates, but put them back on when im thru, they r really quick and easy to remove and re-install, and the machine wobbles less when grinding. youll find if u move to the 4012 diesel that the dual wheels are the only way to go. the steering is ok but not nearly as maneuverable as the 252's 3rd wheel, just takes more back and forth turns, but the machine is fast so it makes up for it. i like the 4012 steering system.


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## btw

*duel wheels*

Stumper

I have not notice any additional lawn damage compared to my old 252. As far as the duel wheels go you only have to remove 1-bolt to get the tire off and i have been putting back on at least 1-tire (radiator side). The 252 was light enough to man handle if it didn't quit make it up the chip pile you could push it, if it started tipping you could catch it. The carlton will not be so forgiving and since its brand new I am being very careful and i am taking my time. Having said that I would never go back to a machine with less power.


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## Bigstumps

Pretty much the same here what they said. I keep the duals on! They do go on and off very easy.

I'd hate to flip it with the radiator. Wouldn't be like the Kohler where you just flip it back and go on.

The steering works good, but it won't pivot around like a 3 wheeler. I can still get anywhere I did with the Rayco and a lot more.

I would hate to go back to less power on this machine now that I am spoiled!!


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## Bigstumps

Stump Dude,

So what did you quote for that 20' r???


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## btw

*chip containment*

Bigstumps

I took off the middle chip guard behind the cutter wheel on the 4012 to see if I can get more chips to go under the machine rather then going back on to the stump and into the hole (mulch dragging down the horse power ). With the sandvic wheel I am wondering if you even need any of the chip guards. I think it might make grinding the larger stumps easier. Have you tried this yet? The 4012 actually is a fun machine to run. The 252 was a good machine but I just hated doing large stumps with it. For the money I think it's great. Which rayco did you have?


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## stump-dude

quoted $2500 no removal


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## Bigstumps

btw said:


> Bigstumps
> 
> I took off the middle chip guard behind the cutter wheel on the 4012 to see if I can get more chips to go under the machine rather then going back on to the stump and into the hole (mulch dragging down the horse power ). With the sandvic wheel I am wondering if you even need any of the chip guards. I think it might make grinding the larger stumps easier. Have you tried this yet? The 4012 actually is a fun machine to run. The 252 was a good machine but I just hated doing large stumps with it. For the money I think it's great. Which rayco did you have?




Haven't thought about removing the rubber around the back of the wheel but you may be right. I should try it.

I had a Rayco 1625. Good machine but not even close to the power on the Kubota. I hated anything larger than 20" with it.


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## btw

*chip containment*

I have grind a number of stumps now with the middle chip guard removed and is working great. It doesn't leave as neat of a pile with it on, but I am not spraying near the chips back over the stump. Chip containment greatly enhanced. So at this point I will leave the remaining guards on. Still love the 4012.


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## undercut

*Bandit copied Carlton*

Buy Cartlon, better machine for the money. Do what ever you have to do to avoid bandit. I found it quite desturbing to see them selling a machine claiming all it's assets like they thought of them when i had been using one for years before "they" invented it. How could this be so? Wait, i was not using one of theirs for years... that's right. I didn't have a time machine to go to the future to get a bandit machine. I didn't need a time machine becuause i had a carlton.

Carlton... better machines for the money, period, the end. 

Wow, they should give me a job or something.


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## btw

*Bandit*

I am sure happy I bought the 4012 kobuta rather then the 3800 bandit. The swing speed was slow (demo 2005). I think the 4012 could out grind the bandit and at half the price.


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## Bigstumps

The Bandit I saw looked like a copy of the Rayco Super 50. It didn't look near as neat or finished as the Rayco and I don't think it outcut the 4012 Kubota. Plus the Ditch Witch guy didn't know anything about stump grinders!

I don't trust the hydostats down here in the heat. Both the Rayco and the Bandit put out a ton of heat!


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## Bigstumps

120 Hours and Everything is still good!!

Why is this board so quiet???


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## stump-dude

*maintenance*

hey hows your maintenance on your kubota 4012 doing? at 80hrs my belt has shred, cost of a new one from carlton... $190cnd. also had to replace my batteries in the remote which wasnt too bad, surprised at how long it lasted.


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## kennertree

stump-dude said:


> hey hows your maintenance on your kubota 4012 doing? at 80hrs my belt has shred, cost of a new one from carlton... $190cnd. also had to replace my batteries in the remote which wasnt too bad, surprised at how long it lasted.



I had a belt go out at 30 hours. I think i just got a bad belt. Carlton was good to me about that one. They replaced the belt free but i also ordered another one just in case. Other than that, no problems at all. I have the lambordini on mine, wish I could have waited till the kubota came out.


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## stumper63

Hey KennerTree and Stump-Dude,
Was it the cutter wheel belt (poly-chain) that went out, or jackshaft? Seems a bit early, usually get several hundred hours from 252 belt, and it's only $30 bucks or so. Wonder why Carlton's belt is so expensive, is it huge compared to the 252's?
Any other maintenance issues? I'm going to be touring Carlton's factory and demoing a Kubota 4012 next month, anything I should be looking for/asking about? Did you ask about prices on bearings? How's the Sandvik teeth holding up?
Stumper63


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## kennertree

stumper63 said:


> Hey KennerTree and Stump-Dude,
> Was it the cutter wheel belt (poly-chain) that went out, or jackshaft? Seems a bit early, usually get several hundred hours from 252 belt, and it's only $30 bucks or so. Wonder why Carlton's belt is so expensive, is it huge compared to the 252's?
> Any other maintenance issues? I'm going to be touring Carlton's factory and demoing a Kubota 4012 next month, anything I should be looking for/asking about? Did you ask about prices on bearings? How's the Sandvik teeth holding up?
> Stumper63



Mine was the large belt that goes from the engine to the jackshaft. The sandvik teeth are great.


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## Bigstumps

stump-dude said:


> hey hows your maintenance on your kubota 4012 doing? at 80hrs my belt has shred, cost of a new one from carlton... $190cnd. also had to replace my batteries in the remote which wasnt too bad, surprised at how long it lasted.




After reading this post I thought I better get a spare belt. Ordered the V-Belt from Carlton - $80 US. Over 150 hours on the original and it is running fine - just don't want down time. I've had to tighten it a few times that's all.

Looked at the PolyChain, looks good. No use to get a spare for that just yet.

I removed the rubber skirt directly behind the cutterwheel, does help all the chips get away from what I'm grinding.


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