# Urban logging. Anyone do it?



## beastmaster (Feb 6, 2010)

I know theres a milling forum, But I'm wondering if any tree service owners harvest the lumber from take downs. Seems to me lot of potential money is cut up for firewood or hauled to the dump or chipped. I had to buy a few pieces
of oak trim for a project. It was insanely expensive. We have a massive piece of oak at our yard. We also recently did a removal at an arboretum of a large walnut. It had many straight leaders and was already dried to perfection. We cut it up for firewood. Some artist took one chunk to make a bowl. You see my point. I keep thinking lot of valuable wood is being wasted, but what do I know. So anybody harvests their wood or I'm I way off base? Thanks


----------



## capetrees (Feb 6, 2010)

I get a request for that kind of stuff once in a while but not a big market. Keep a list of potential people that want the logs or pieces and you can make it piecemeal. Big market, I don't think so.


----------



## BRCCArborist (Feb 6, 2010)

I think it could be ok if you could cut enough timber at a time to make it worthwhile. one or two trees probably is just a waste of time. Also urban timber has a high possibility of nails and whatnot.


----------



## treeman82 (Feb 6, 2010)

Check around in your area to see if there are smaller sawmills that will cut your timber for a certain rate or percentage. If you have a project in mind for your wood that's one thing, but to try to sell it to consumers... that's something else.

I too hate sending beautiful logs to the firewood pile, but honestly, firewood is an easier turn around, and unless you are talking about high end woods, you are gonna see more value in the logs as firewood.


----------



## Mike Van (Feb 6, 2010)

An old saying in the sawlog market "above the first major crotch is firewood" I've found this to be true more often than not. The most stable lumber will come from the ground up, once a tree forks & the limbs are no longer plumb to the ground, you get reaction wood. Trying to make lumber from this stuff is a waste of time, as most all of it will warp & twist so bad it's unusable. So a tree with "many straight leaders" is pretty much firewood. The tramp metal is always an issue too, not so much for bandmill or csm owners, but no big mill will buy logs from yards, fencelines, etc. I've got a can full of stuff I've sawn off, nails, lags, & so forth. Most yard trees are heavily branched [here anyway] and 6" dia knots make poor lumber. Matt, how you been?


----------



## tree md (Feb 6, 2010)

I used to get the pulp wood guys to come out on jobs where I had many pines back when I worked in GA. If we had good logs up to 16' with no limbs or knots they wanted us to leave them in 16' lengths. Not sure what they were using them for but they brought more money than the 4' pulp wood. You would have to have a pretty good load for them to come out though. I think the least amount I ever called them for was 12 pines. They had to come a long distance and I would usually tip them $50 just for coming out. They didn't make much money and did me a big favor hauling the saw logs away.


----------



## newsawtooth (Feb 6, 2010)

*Urban logging*

I would add to the above comments that urban trees grow differently than forest trees, they have less competition and their boles are much shorter before they fork dramatically. Furthermore, logging is only profitable with volume and more favorable saw log markets than exist currently. With some creative networking, big equipment, and cheap land a co-op for tree services to cache their logs and dump their chips might break even. Though that is only speculation based on observing the local green waste facilities that operate for profit.


----------



## Jimmychips (Feb 6, 2010)

My experience has been that the sawmills won't touch "yard" trees. Too many clotheslines, birdhouses, hammocks, dog runs, ect. for them to even risk trashing a blade. I have found however that the port-a-mill guys are a little more flexible. Our wood either goes through the chipper, or through the splitter.


----------



## treeman82 (Feb 6, 2010)

All quiet here Mike. I haven't heard from Eldon in quite some time, have you?


----------



## bulldoglover (Feb 6, 2010)

I tried to do a solid for a friend. I left a few logs at a job site so he could come two days later to bring them to the mill for his own lumber. Well about two weeks later the logs were still sitting in the yard. Now i have to apologize to the customer, and load them on my trailer by my self. If I had just took care of it the day of the job I had two groundies and it would have been a cinch. New rule, no messing with saw logs, its fire wood or chipper food!


----------



## Taxmantoo (Feb 6, 2010)

bulldoglover said:


> I tried to do a solid for a friend. I left a few logs at a job site so he could come two days later to bring them to the mill for his own lumber. Well about two weeks later the logs were still sitting in the yard.



Oops. I guess you should have done a drive-by on day 3.


----------



## bulldoglover (Feb 6, 2010)

taxmantoo said:


> Oops. I guess you should have done a drive-by on day 3.



Lesson learned. Hate when you try to throw someone a bone and it comes back and makes you look like a tool.


----------



## danieltree (Feb 7, 2010)

I sell everything or give it to someone else who sells it . I live in an area where they buy wood though. Pine is either pulp wood, billets which is used for plywood or saw logs. Oaks are either fire wood or sold as saw logs. I mill some of it for personal use . I don't get rich selling the wood but am able to pay my labor for the job with my log money.​


----------



## RVALUE (Feb 7, 2010)

BRCCArborist said:


> I think it could be ok if you could cut enough timber at a time to make it worthwhile. one or two trees probably is just a waste of time. Also urban timber has a high possibility of nails and whatnot.



I took out a 36 inch walnut, that some "kids" put motorcycle pegs in to climb, back in the '50's. They were imbedded. That tree was worth more at the scrapper than the mill. 

Nails are an inconvience, Whatnot is deadly.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 7, 2010)

My friend kept telling me that HIS friend had a mill and that we should take a log to him, I wasn't interested because i knew it would be a waste, we took a large oak down , nice straight trunk about 40" dia, 16' long, so I let him have it, he had to pay the roll off guy who hauled it $100, my buddy got $125 out the log! so for 4 hours work he made $25, I knew he wouldn't get very much, and now we know...............And knowing is half the battle..................G.I.JOE.

Sorry, had to do it


----------



## epicklein22 (Feb 7, 2010)

I guess the tree company I work for is a minority. We have a yard full of "saw logs". We call up a logging company and they come load up their tri-axle. All we have to do is call. I don't know what we get paid though, I would imagine we take a little less considering the risk of metal.


----------



## Quintano65 (Feb 7, 2010)

I've got some friends here in Moab, Utah who are doing some pretty interesting things with urban timber and even utilizing the wood from invasive species like Russian olive and even tarmrisk. Of course they are limited with what they can do but they sure have blown my mind and broken some common myths about this type of wood. Check it out. It's pretty exciting! 





http://www.triassicstone.com/


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a friend who takes all the big cedar I can find for him. Also an excavator buddy takes all the pine logs I can bring him. Its easier for me to do that than anything else. So I give it away. Ive sawn some big logs on my CSM. So I guess we do a little urban logging.... Mike


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 7, 2010)

The problem AI see is that many people see a tree and equate it with the value of lumber, which is a value added product. You have to fell it, extract it fro the site, trsansport it to the mill, debark and saw it, grade the RGH lumber coming off the mill, dry it, then mill it to square lumber.

OOO that is walnut it hs to be worth something, yeah about $50 a log in a good market.

The real money for single logs cmkes from veneer quality sticks. In ash that is 14 ft and at least 16 in dia (if there is no EAB, then you need to mill 1in down wen debarking.)


----------



## rbtree (Feb 12, 2010)

I have always done my best to salvage any usable timber. Here in the PNW, we have a lot of tall residential trees. Fir, hemlock, cedar, even some pines, maple, alder and birch, even cottonwood, can all the sold to the local sort yards or mills. Unique hardwood, and cool softwoods like deodar go to my www.gogreendesign.biz. Eric makes great slab art furniture.

Of course, the challenge can be getting the trees down in log lengths, and then to the log truck. Small back yards, narrow gates, are a deal killer.

The current market is in the can. I have only sold one tree to a mill in over 14 months, and it was a stinkin' cottonwood. It was huge, and paid $43 more than the trucker charged, but it saved me $550 if we'd had the debris truck haul it.

I've seldom had problems with metal in trees. The mill might reject the log, or they might just cut the butt off, and pay for the rest. And that's only happened a few times.


----------



## prentice110 (Feb 12, 2010)

I have an in with a wood flooring co that always want white Oak. Other than that Im always looking for that one American Elm log that wants to be the new deck for my trailer. I want something that wont split.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 12, 2010)

prentice110 said:


> I have an in with a wood flooring co that always want white Oak. Other than that Im always looking for that one American Elm log that wants to be the new deck for my trailer. I want something that wont split.



We have one guy up here who does truck steak-beds out of silver maple. It looks nice and is rather light.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 13, 2010)

I have done a lot of milling in the past, and could feed you guys 100's of pictures; Alaskan milling, Woodmizer, Lucas, freehand slabbing. My passion for recycling 100% of every molecule of every tree has prompted me to explore the many ways to reclaim urban lumber. Most of the time I cut stuff up into firewood, but a nice log is so hard to do that to. So I save it and probably cut it up into firewood sometime in the next few years.

This picture, I got the log, inoculated it with fungus spawn, _(Ganoderma lucidum_), to create spalting patterns and then milled it 18 months later.

I always have to take off normal work to do this stuff, so the opportunity cost has to be factored in and is usually ends up costing me a mint. However, somewhere deep inside its worth it. The watching of a woodmizer opening up a log, the smell, mmmm. But then there's the cleanup, the stacking, the stickering the storing, the space and then I'm so busy with treecare I don't have time to work with the wood I've created. I'm buried in it. It's sad in a way.


----------



## NeTree (Feb 13, 2010)

capetrees said:


> I get a request for that kind of stuff once in a while but not a big market.



Same here.


----------



## tree md (Feb 13, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I have done a lot of milling in the past, and could feed you guys 100's of pictures; Alaskan milling, Woodmizer, Lucas, freehand slabbing. My passion for recycling 100% of every molecule of every tree has prompted me to explore the many ways to reclaim urban lumber. Most of the time I cut stuff up into firewood, but a nice log is so hard to do that to. So I save it and probably cut it up into firewood sometime in the next few years.
> 
> This picture, I got the log, inoculated it with fungus spawn, _(Ganoderma lucidum_), to create spalting patterns and then milled it 18 months later.
> 
> I always have to take off normal work to do this stuff, so the opportunity cost has to be factored in and is usually ends up costing me a mint. However, somewhere deep inside its worth it. The watching of a woodmizer opening up a log, the smell, mmmm. But then there's the cleanup, the stacking, the stickering the storing, the space and then I'm so busy with treecare I don't have time to work with the wood I've created. I'm buried in it. It's sad in a way.



It's too bad you don't live closer. One of my good friends and business associates is a carpenter. I actually dump my brush on his 15 acres and burn it. ANyway, he builds custom cabinets, display cases and whatnot. They plowed an old Black Walnut down not far from his house clearing a fence line as an area to range cattle as well as for a firebreak and all the wood there just went to waste. And this goes for miles around the perimeter of the huge property (this is Oklahoma). I told my friend about the old Walnut and we had thought about trying to recover it. We haven't completely dismissed the notion. We are thinking about buying a mill and seeing what we can do.

Anyway, if you lived closer he would probably take everything you have off your hands. He has bid a couple of apartment complexes on completely replacing their cabinets. If he gets any of the bids he plans to build the cabinets in his shop on his property. I told him I would help him during the Wintertime when I was slow. Not for the small wage he would pay me but for the learning experience.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 14, 2010)

I've tried selling the wood. Make an appointment, hope the guy shows up on time. Hang with him and help pull apart stacks so he can select out the best pieces for himself, calculating board-feet and equating it to the market price. Re-stack the lesser pieces. Help him load. He wants to write me a check which is only a portion of the cost of the day off work and the paying of the milling guy, not to mention the work time lost in doing this transaction. I end up with less money in hand than if I'd have just gone to work that morning. I sell at a loss, he gets some unobtainable stock for a bargain and I end up with a partial amount of my same wood, minus the choice pieces.

It sounds like I'm whining, but actually am just spelling out the economic realities as it applies to a full-time arborist.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 14, 2010)

I hope I'm not discouraging anyone. Reclaiming urban lumber is noble and 'the right thing to do', I keep doing it, but with far less frequency than in the past decade. It was something I sort of dreamed of when growing up, a romantic vision of turning logs into fine wood and using that wood to create beautiful things. I consider myself lucky in being able to realize that dream, but with it comes the realities of paying helpers, hitting metal in the log, time off work, wear and tear on saws, transporting wood, storage, I've had stacks of wood stolen, volunteer helpers who want the very best pieces... and on and on.







I like big, giant table slabs. The problem is surfacing the chainsaw marks out of them, in the field where the mess is being made (transporting them to another site to make another mess another time wrecks the deal).
The walnut crotch slab below was wrecked when we determined it too wide to fit on the Woodmizer. The 'arms' had to be cut off so we could mill it.

if ANYONE knows a swift way to bring the (chain)sawn surfaces to a smooth surface, I'm all ears. You can't use a planer as the slabs are too wide and too thick and too heavy and maybe not perfectly flat. No floor sander suggestions or belt sander. Wet wood gums up sandpaper in short order.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 14, 2010)

These days I'm more likely to whip out a stump bench in under a half hour, as seen in the picture and walk away.






I'll do this because I see the art in the standing piece and I'm inspired by natures beauty and want to preserve it in some form.

The problem is I see art in every tree I look at. Sometimes I buck up firewood and it just hurts knowing the wood is valuable.


----------



## kevin bingham (Feb 14, 2010)

I save every log for milling. I probably am in the early phases of tree machines story. slowly but surely burying myself in it. A lot of my wood goes to makeing pallets, trailer decking and industrial transport material. My sawer has a few contracts which pay pretty well. That pays for the milling of my finer logs, the oak, walnut, the cherries, box elder, and intresting woods for me. Being able to sell green lumber is a huge advantage because storage is def the trickiest part about it.

I think there is potential but a lot of space is required and time and being effecient is hard. If you can get it down to moving the boards just once its great. but sometimes you want the wood at the bottom of the pile. frustrating. at the same time it is amazing to cut into a log and see what lies beneath. I am getting ready to take a bunch of ash boards to the mill and get it made into flooring for my sisters house. 

I like your 1/2 hour log bench by the way, that is elegant and Im definitly going to use that one if you dont mind.

for planing the slabs have you tried a power hand planer? that might work.


----------



## kevin bingham (Feb 14, 2010)

Your story of selling the wood is all to familiar. It seems everytime I feel like ive been ripped off of my best pieces and im left with a couple of bucks and a lost day. I sold a slab of boxelder to a lady for 30 bucks, she sanded it down stuck 4 legs on it and turned around and sold it for $300. then boasted to me about it! I think there is only money it if your able to tap into the value added side of the market as seen by this story. Instead of digging through my pile with this woman, I should have had my sander out and been sanding down my boxelder into amazing art pieces.

A lot of it it i look at like a savings acount. I'll collect boards and slabs and cool wood and then when climbing gets boring or too hard for my beatup body ill hit the wood pile and become an artist. I have enrolled in a wood sculpture class to maybe learn a little about the process.


----------



## treesquirrel (Feb 14, 2010)

Sorry but no I do not. I have a logger that will come pick up stuff I can drop whole if I call him and it is good saw timber.

Over the years I have stopped fooling with anything that cannot turn me a decent buck or two. I got tired of charity work.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 14, 2010)

I hear ya, squirrel. And Bingham.

This picture is charity work, doing good for the community a volunteer effort for the good of all. I placed wood benches, hung swings, built a see-saw and cased in that fort with logs. It took a number of days when it was all said and done. The kids in the area had a place to go and play. Everyone was onboard, the community loved it. We named it the "Peace Park."

Then, the kids were discovered hiding in that fort smoking cigarettes. Then someone felt like a kid could fall off the incline board, or get hurt on one of the swings. They played the 'liability' card and asked me to un-do the work I'd done, at my expense. I flat out told them to stick it up their.... um, let's say, just for the sake of conversation that I politely declined. They paid another tree service come in and dismantle the work.

No good deed goes unpunished so the saying goes.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 14, 2010)

As long as I'm on a roll, let me share the biggest failure of all time. I was asked to build a 'platform' treehouse amongst, but physically unattached to other adjacent standing trees. I had a stash of cherry and elm logs and a pile of 16" wide, 2" thick tulip planks, so I thought "Gee what a great opportunity to recycle the logs and lumber into something unique."

The plan was to place vertically oriented logs on pressure-treated plates for the support, dado them out to accept the rustic band board and build upon this frame a platform and treehouse.

This was my greatest example of 'Murphy's Law' ever, going well beyond costing more and taking longer than expected. I just thought it would be cool, and it was. However, days and days (weeks) of tree work were lost and then mid-project, a serious storm hit, the project went on hold, my schedule got flooded and I still had this commitment to finish.

I finished, but when the final bill was proposed, the homeowners balked, there was much stress in the negotiation, I took a loss, and lost the tree client as well.

I vowed never again to build anything for anyone other than myself. I won't even hang a swing and I don't have a problem anymore saying no.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 14, 2010)

I've hollowed a few out for planters too.


----------



## treesquirrel (Feb 14, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I finished, but when the final bill was proposed, the homeowners balked, there was much stress in the negotiation, I took a loss, and lost the tree client as well.
> 
> I vowed never again to build anything for anyone other than myself. I won't even hang a swing and I don't have a problem anymore saying no.



Man that was an impressive bit of work! Sadly I have come to the conclusion that fewer and fewer folks truly appreciate anything done for them.

American society has become a bunch of panty wastes that think anything done for them is something they are entitled to even if it is at someone else expense. Its the ultimate in orgasmic utopia for a left winger.


----------



## kevin bingham (Feb 14, 2010)

is that treehouse still standing? how did it handle rot issues. Beautiful though. to bad it ended bitterly.


----------



## kevin bingham (Feb 14, 2010)

i dont think that should discourage you to do that kind of thing. Maybe its a lesson learned about communicating things. You did get the experienc which I could see as valuable. I get into the trap a lot because very few things can compete financially like tree climbing. I will never be able to pay myself treeclimbing wages sanding boards and making picture frames. I do think that it is something valuable to cultivate and there is undeniably lots of value in wood. Its how to tap into it wisely is the question. Treework is very easily diversified and I think it is good to do so both for mind and body. Networking is critical in all this.


----------



## PurdueJoe (Feb 14, 2010)

I just had a guy I knew from school come down to mill up some of my finer Walnut, Oak and Ash. I'm using the ash for board fence at the front of where I'm building at to keep the vines in (one day a want little vineyard) and more importantly to keep the morons on quads out. The rest is going to be used for the interior of my house or whatever else I find a need for. While I'd like to sell some lumber I too don't want to the best pieces taken for a fraction of what they're worth and me left with the scraps. Price of lumber is like tree work,whether it be a $2,000 removal or $75 walnut board both are only worth that much if someone wants to pay that for it.


----------



## RVALUE (Feb 14, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I politely declined. They paid another tree service come in and dismantle the work.



Not to get into a bad customer mode, (it would crash this server) but why do people want you to do it free, then pay someone else?

I have given several people significant gifts, only to have them hire my competition later, ???? so as to not address the gift? To get overcharged??


Go figure.

Oh, good post.


----------



## tree md (Feb 14, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> As long as I'm on a roll, let me share the biggest failure of all time. I was asked to build a 'platform' treehouse amongst, but physically unattached to other adjacent standing trees. I had a stash of cherry and elm logs and a pile of 16" wide, 2" thick tulip planks, so I thought "Gee what a great opportunity to recycle the logs and lumber into something unique."
> 
> The plan was to place vertically oriented logs on pressure-treated plates for the support, dado them out to accept the rustic band board and build upon this frame a platform and treehouse.
> 
> ...



TM, you do some really cool work.


----------



## Bermie (Feb 15, 2010)

On a micro mini scale, my neighbours had a big branch of baygrape come down in the last blow...it fell on their little cedar...I went over cut out the branch and pruned up the wee cedar...
Well, baygrape (Cocoloba uvifera) is beautiful, a deep brownish red when cured, dense, super flexible in thin laminate...its unusual to get a subtantial piece...I just could not bring myself to cut up this little log yet, going to see if a cabinetmaker friend wants to play with it,...it's all of 6" by 8'...small items, laminate, inlay...just want to give it a try before condemning it to rot in the bushes.

What are we...'sensitive' arborists? At least I have an excuse guys!!


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm a sensitive arborist, quite proud of the fact, and my treecare business thrives even in this depressed economy. I've been called names and told I'm flat out stupid for using canola oil as bar lube in a chainsaw. However, the science proves otherwise, I'm 9 + years into it, still doing just fine, saws are running strong, all 4 seasons, no downsides, just benefit. A lot of pro saw users are changing over without any problems. However, there's the larger crowd that won't change simply because change is change and change scares the crap out of a lot of people. All I can do is bring the information to the front, let the community make their own choices and not lose sleep over it.




> TM, you do some really cool work.


Heh, heh. Thanks, MD. I thought the treehouse was a cool idea, too. The creative / artsy fartsy part of me is perpetually inspired. The science side is uniquely trained and talented. The business side of me is dumb as dirt sometimes.

This thread is titled 'Urban Logging', though more accurately it's Urban Wood Reutilization. There is no 'Logging' in the urban forest, just making use of logs or wood, or selling the occasional premium log that is gotten.

For me, the GOAL is to recycle the wood, to somehow use it in the best way possible and never have anything go into a landfill or have to be driven any real distance to be gotten rid of. This mindset has more than paid for the 'losses' and on a day-to-day basis I ride the wave where being 'green' pays off in the form of money-in-pocket.

Here's a couple pictures of what I consider my most successful log utilization to date. If I can bear it, I might share the least successful, even though it was the coolest and most interesting thing I've ever done.

Hold for a second, this picture is one of my failures. This site is a neighborhood entrance onto a rail trail, where an old railroad track was taken out and turned into public hike/bike/rollerblade trail through the city.


I work in this neighborhood and am part of the volunteers that maintain this entrance, an easy gig for me as all they need is chips once or twice a year. However, one day I got inspired and decided the best way to reutilize a surfaced-off log was to donate it to the site of this entrance. That way the public has a place to sit, rest, put on or take off their skates, whatever. You see it in the background. 







It was an 'anonymous donation', I went in after dark, towed the log down the trail with my truck and the arch, placed it appropriately and then I silently bailed. This shot was taken a week later as the people in the hood who knew me, knew who did this deed. It was like, who else _would have_? 
I took the shot because the question kept coming up, "How did you get it there?" With this image, I save having to voice a thousand words.

Anyway, the public loved it. The city was furious from what I got from someone on the 'inside'. It was not formally OK'd by the city so they came and took it away. I would have removed it had they just asked. It was a really nice log and I'd sunk quite a bit of time and work into it up to this point. In fact, I bought the tractor arch specifically for this tree and for big logs thereafter so that big logs could be moved efficiently.

Another good deed and the subsequent punishment.


----------



## clearance (Feb 15, 2010)

TM-you sound like a really decent guy. I too have found out that old saying about no good deed..., is often true. There are many out there who are culls of one kind or another, but there are still many good people. You did good.


----------



## John Ellison (Feb 15, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> These days I'm more likely to whip out a stump bench in under a half hour, as seen in the picture and walk away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some good work TM, I like your stump bench.
There is a book on this very subject. Harvesting Urban Timber.
Don't know anything about it, but have seen it for sale.


----------



## Ax-man (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks TM for sharing and telling the story what of urban logging is REALLY about. I see articles in the trade pubs about the subject and you would think their is some kind of big market out there for urban logs but in reality there isn't. 

Like many, I too have wanted to save high quality logs for making boards instead of firewood out of them. In reality more money is made in the firewood than the sawing of logs. 

Small scale projects like eye catching tables, chairs and small benches along with some carving can probaly find a nice niche market for some decent coin. That is as far as I would go with this saving logs from the landfill issue. If you could dump logs in a landfill. Chips and firewood seem to be the best end use for our wood.

Making outdoor benches or stump art from stumps and big logs can also bring in some decent coin if you can find the right buyers. I have done this and liked it. It isn't that time consuming or that hard on saws. In the long run it is more profitable than than trying to make boards with a chainsaw.

I haven't tried or gotten into hardcore milling. I have done enough free hand stuff to see that for the amount of time, not to mention the wear and tear on a saw that the numbers wouldn't add up for the return you would get. When those that mentioned the time, selection of the best pieces and the restacking of lumber I am glad I stayed out of it.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 15, 2010)

Here's a shot of that same trail log, still standing with the shipping wrap still on the arch. This tool has made urban log usage entirely possible for me as having a crane truck was more expensive and less practical. This wouldn't be the case for many commercial tree services, but it was a very good choice for me.


----------



## blueatlascedar (Feb 15, 2010)

A buddy of mine who also runs his own small tree service mills a lot of wood. He bought a portable band saw mill like 20 years ago and sells a bunch of rough cut lumber. I get him to remove all my big take down logs that I am being paid to remove. He removes for free to me and makes some $$ on the milling. Truly a win win for all involved.


----------



## kevin bingham (Feb 15, 2010)

I too have a log arch and it has been great. I think for the most part, milling has been good for me. I never have dump fees. I dont pay for the milling because half of the wood goes into pallets. space is an issue, effeciency is an issue. Im sure ill figure it out though. its a learned trade and there is no better way to learn than experience. But now, I dont really see any other way. Dumping a great log isnt going to happen. I know that there is true value in that log. Its just a matter of tapping into it. Cutting it into firewood is way harder than milling and takes up way more space. One thing i think that is important is to not get to sentimental about the wood. I have passed up deals to sell my wood because i have grand schemes for higher purposes.


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Feb 15, 2010)

Heres a pic of cedar logs in the back of my urban log truck. Pretty funny. They are going to make some nice boards..... Mike


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm very fond of red cedar.


----------



## Bermie (Feb 16, 2010)

Bermie said:


> ...
> What are we...'sensitive' arborists? At least I have an excuse guys!!



I meant it in the best possible way...so nice to read about people doing good things and caring about our surroundings, and I've gleaned some good ideas from this discussion


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 16, 2010)

Bermie said:


> I meant it in the best possible way...so nice to read about people doing good things and caring about our surroundings, and I've gleaned some good ideas from this discussion



Same here, I've done some crude benches before but forgot about it. I've volunteering for with a local River Revitalization Foundation and just offered to do some log benches for the trails.







> Our Mission:
> The mission of the River Revitalization Foundation is to establish a parkway for public access, walkways, recreation and education, bordering the Milwaukee, Menomonee and Kinnickinnic Rivers; to use the rivers to revitalize surrounding neighborhoods; and to improve water quality.
> 
> From the past to the future, we are committed to the return of this vital natural resource for all as Milwaukee's urban rivers land trust.



http://www.riverrevitalizationfoundation.org/


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 16, 2010)

Bermie said:


> I've gleaned some good ideas from this discussion



Really? You like?

I have a few more picture, and these upcoming will be chosen 'specially for you, Bermie.
I call these small benches.

Quick and easy, small potting benches, or shelvage. It's a short series.



I think you'll like this one, Bermie. 
This was a dead, standing maple, about 10" diameter, I got the wise idea to mill it vertically, like while the trunk was still standing, right through the major fork (crotch wood). The idea being that gravity would pull the saw down and assist in the effort of ripping a couple primo shelves. Once the shelves are cut (on the hoof) then you 'fell' the tree (in 4 slabs). 



The lady had just moved into the home and was so very much wanting to just make her yard look nice, but having to work a new job she had little in the way of that kind of time. She had bought all these flats of flowers and plants, all there taking up space on the ground. Se was trying. Creativity struck and I say thank goodness for sharp chain and a good saw. 


This project was spontaneous, it was quick, and it gave me something ideal to do with the wood, onsite. And it really made her day.


And now we all get to share the picture:











Look at the spalting in the wood. Isn't that beautiful? This milling was done freehand, no chalkline or any marked line whatsoever,and using a regular full-chisel crosscut chain, not a special ripping chain. True ripping chain can make a smoother cut, but it's still rough-cut plankage. Full-chisel chain is just flat out faster and it's what I like, fast, using the chain I'm already using.

This, as I remember, was one good deed that did _not_ carry a punishment.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 16, 2010)

*Small benches*

Here are a few more. 

All these pieces were created from the waste parts from the surfacing of the big, dead elm that the city took.

On the whole of the 'good deed goes punished' scale, this good deed kicked me in the nuts.

Good stuff, though.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

It all starts here, something as simple as opening up a log and figuring out what to do with it.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

This was a firepit zone. I had been using this area there in the background for chip recycling for a couple years, and after a couple hundred loads of chips over that time, I had gotten to know the locals living right nearby. Consensus was that they would like an area where they could have a campfire.

This is what I came up with.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

And here it is finished.

I'm sorry, I got a little off of the 'small benches' collection. Ha ha.


----------



## treebilly (Feb 17, 2010)

we keep our good logs until we get a good boom truck load, make a phone call to the amish and have an auction. we get paid to remove them and then get paid "some" for the lumber. we charge $40 an hour to load if they can't do it themselves


----------



## bighugetrees (Feb 17, 2010)

*cedar*

Took down two cedar trees and cut to 6' 1" lengths. Could load the logs by hand with 3 people. Got back 200 1 by 6 and 200 1 by 4 fence boards. Thought it was worth the effort verses making firewood.

Milled with bandsaw.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

Cedar, mmmmmmm.

I sold this middle size arch a few years ago to afford the bigger one, I've missed it ever since.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

This little table was pure accident. I had a waste piece, turned it cut side up and fitted it on waste chunk. Yea, oops.

Isn't it marvelous what nature can do?







Eden, are you out there? I've got a special little table that will bring tears to your eyes.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm not sure if this image came out OK.


----------



## Bermie (Feb 17, 2010)

I've got two coconut palms to remove as soon as the wind drops...they are in the back garden of the Historical Society (300 yr old house, and 200 yr old ones nearby...40lb nuts over the roof, electric pole guy wire...yadayada)

I suggested I make a bench for them out of the stumps...see the influence!


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 17, 2010)

I've got another picture here somewhere..... oh yea, there was about 4 minutes of sunshine this month, as soon as the sun came out I grabbed Eden's table and ran outside with it.


----------



## talltreeclimber (Feb 17, 2010)

Mikecutstrees said:


> Heres a pic of cedar logs in the back of my urban log truck. Pretty funny. They are going to make some nice boards..... Mike



Thats a nice truck in the top right corner


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Feb 17, 2010)

talltreeclimber said:


> Thats a nice truck in the top right corner




Its prone to breaking down 20' out of the driveway. Tows behind an F-450 nice though.... haha J/K


----------



## talltreeclimber (Feb 18, 2010)

Mikecutstrees said:


> Its prone to breaking down 20' out of the driveway. Tows behind an F-450 nice though.... haha J/K



oooooOOHHHHHhhhhhhh thats low... friggen plastic pullys at least it wasnt towed behind a ranger. hahaha


----------



## EdenT (Feb 19, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> Eden, are you out there? I've got a special little table that will bring tears to your eyes.



Man it did!!!

You are a craftsman of the first order. I LOVE YOUR WORK!:love1:

I had a go at making one of your benches on the last job we did. Sadly I didn't have my camera. Happily the customer loved it and took pictures. I will send you one when she sends it to me. It's nowhere near as good as anything you do, yet. But as I said in my note, your work is inspiring and I am planning to practice whenever I can.

:yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock:


----------



## EdenT (Feb 19, 2010)

*Dang it!*

I can't rep Tree Machine for a while yet. Could someone please give him a fix of the green for me. I will rep you back....Thanks.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 19, 2010)

No repping necessary. I'm still sort of unclear what the whole rep thing is about. I assume it's good, but can I trade in rep points for cash and prizes?

Here's my wreck of a back porch. This is really sad. There's a beautiful piece of oak crotchwood laying face-down, half buried in the snow. Just above that a couple pieces of vertical grain oak, weathered and abused and in the way of things, and then to the left, a little bench. Let me pull a couple pictures of that. It's an interesting piece I threw together with scrap chunks.


----------



## EdenT (Feb 19, 2010)

I know this will be good!!!


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 19, 2010)

I had a woodworker friend one day telling me how complicated dovetail work was, and mortise and tenon work and how specialized the tools were and how long it took to do this kind of work.

I took him out back, got three chunks of big-dimension scrap and a chainsaw. It took longer to lay out the lines than to cut and fit the thing, about 6 minutes once the materials were there.

I was trying to express a point that it wasn't as complicated as he was making it out to be. Afterwards, I really took a liking to the piece.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 19, 2010)

The difficult, messy and time-consuming parts are the surfacing and finishing, which clearly I skip over those parts.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 19, 2010)

See, here's how a mortise and tenon are done.
Carve out the tenon portion, leaving it extra long. Cut the very end of the tenon off. Lay that piece on the surface, trace it with a pencil and cut it out.
It requires a little steadiness in doing the plunge with the tip of the chainsaw, care and attention to kickback.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 20, 2010)

I cabinet grade woodworking it is very difficult to do high-end joinery. 






There is a slight difference betwixed your timber bench and this guitar amp case. (not mine! random search)

Not to beat down on what you did, I just think you are selling the trades short.

BTW have you done any more of that style? Have you seen any failures of the mortise along the grain?


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 20, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Not to beat down on what you did, I just think you are selling the trades short.



Not selling anything, but I know what you mean.

I _can_ produce high-end stuff, but the fact of the matter is, I am an arborist. If I wanted to be a cabinet maker, furniture builder or instrument maker, then I would be that and wouldn't be an Arborist.

I tend to construct things that an Arborist would conveniently be able to do, outside of a studio, usually onsite. And always of bigger stock, wood you can't stuff through a planer.

Back in '92 I moved to Costa Rica for a year. My purpose was to learn the Spanish language and to look up this legendary guy, a famous woodworker. I was willing to volunteer, sweep the shop, do whatever to learn some of the craft which I was lacking. I found him, he interviewed me and offered an unpaid apprenticeship, which to me was gold. I have been working with wood since childhood, my Dad was a building contractor and my Grandfather a carpenter. I could speak the language of woods and tools with a good sense of depth, so that's why I was taken on.

6 months of intensive learning, my main focus was joinery, the entire dovetail series and other joint styles, but dovetailing is what they did really well. Surfacing, sanding and finishing to 1200 grit, a high-polish luster on some of the world's finest hardwoods. I picked up a lot on bowlturning, but that really wasn't my interest. High-precision, high-end works of art were what my focus and intent were all about. Here's Barry's website for any who want to see what an incredible opportunity I was able to experience.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 20, 2010)

So I am very clear what it takes to 'not sell the trades short'.


This is why I've asked the readership if anyone knows a way to surface the rough-cut lumber, onsite and in the field. That would change things. Surfacing is the hardest part on big surfaces. If I spend more than a few minutes on this aspect, it interferes with making a living. So, it's a rare instance where I pull out the belt sander because that means assuming unemployment for the time.

My wife has asthma, so creating sawdust here at home is frowned upon.

Here's a piece I actually sanded, it was a Lucas-milled piece of bur oak, I have kept it around for almost 10 years and finally decided one day to do something with it. Since it was fairly smooth already, I went at it with 36 grit to get the saw marks out of it and increase the tolerance of the sliding stop-dovetail. Then I smoothed the ends and made it a little nicer. Last part of the day, trying to use non-tree time.

On this one I chose to use a flaring buttress, split in half and each half turned upside down. I'll post a couple more pictures later, but right now, I gotta go out and be an arborist.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 20, 2010)

I bet he had to sharpen his tools a few times on this Lignum vitae. Spec. Gravity of +1 it is some hard stuff! When i lived with my parents after getting out of the USMC I had a little turning shop in the garage. I love hollow-form work, I wish i had room here.


----------



## EdenT (Feb 20, 2010)

*Great thread! Keep those pics coming.*

JPS, the stuff you have shown is high quality, and beautifully finished and I expect very time intensive. What I like about TM's stuff is it is quick, rough and ready. While it is not as precise as the products you have shown it has it's own rustic appeal and a utilitarian focus that appeals to me greatly. It's also a great way to do something in the field with a piece of wood that might otherwise be destined for the chipper. It is reminiscent to me of old log cabins and camping grounds with 'log furniture'. I also dig the fact that if a HO is having a tree they love removed for some other reason (safety) you can quickly make them a keepsake (which also keeps the carbon sequestered for longer).

Unlike you guys I was never that good at woodworking. At school trying to use a wood plane my greatest achievement was staining pine crimson by taking the end of my thumb off (boy that took a long time to heal). Probably fortunately I was never allowed near a wood lathe. The Lignum vitae vase you have pictured is truly a reflection of natures wonder and beauty.

Just on a side note, when I was young I once took a circular saw to an old dried out Acacia root (just to see what was inside). Insanely dangerous I realize now, but the grain once uncovered was just amazing. I sanded it back and put a couple of coats of lacquer on it. It sat on my Dad's mantelpiece for about ten years. (I think he kept it because it was the first bit of woodwork I had produced without requiring a trip to the ER). Well worth carving up roots if you happen to get a large one.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 20, 2010)

That Ironwood thimble-vase is off his buddy's site, not my work.

All my pic's are too big, and i lack the software to resize. 

As I said, I was not trying to bust on his work, then he clarified that he does know how to do fine work to...


----------



## gr8scott72 (Feb 20, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> That Ironwood thimble-vase is off his buddy's site, not my work.
> 
> All my pic's are too big, and i lack the software to resize.
> 
> As I said, I was not trying to bust on his work, then he clarified that he does know how to do fine work to...



Uploading your pictures to a free photobucket.com account will re-size them all to a usable size. Then you just copy and paste the line from photobucket to your thread.

Quick and easy and then you can use them anywhere on the net.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 21, 2010)

D'oh, I got one on Facebook...




















This is my little buddy


----------



## tree md (Feb 22, 2010)

TM, JPS,

I hope you guys are taking in the young guys (and girls) and teaching them what you know. You both know too much to not be utilizing apprentices and passing it on!


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 22, 2010)

I wish i had space to relearn what I've forgot. I've not done any real woodworking for 6-7 years now.


----------



## kevin bingham (Feb 22, 2010)

Tree Machine, As for surfacing quickly in the field, have you tried a large hand held power planer? Also what about a large grinder? working with wet wood is always very difficult on tools. 

My carpentry skills are lacking but that is easy to make up for with beautiful wood, a lot of sandpaper, and some linseed oil/mineral spirits.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 23, 2010)

tree md said:


> TM, JPS,
> 
> I hope you guys are taking in the young guys (and girls) and teaching them what you know. You both know too much to not be utilizing apprentices and passing it on!



I'm happy to share, I just think its really important to know what you're getting into. But then again, maybe that's not so important.

If you're a 60-70 hour a week arborist, there's the intense climbing schedule, the time needed to retrieve messages, call people back, set up and show up for estimates, there's purchasing of new gear, maintenance of existing gear, communication with helpers, and on and on. Something gets ignored or compromised if there's no spare time in your schedule.


Here's what makes it possible for me to juggle all this and still knock out a piece now and then..... passion. It's certainly not profit motive, though profit is certainly possible. If you're out for profit, you need to factor in a higher degree of finish, communication with the (potential) buyer(s) which is more like a relationship, connecting them with the piece which is called 'delivery', getting it to its final place and then answering all the questions they might have, both in the moment and in the future. 


That's why it pays for me to whip out something rough and rustic and walk away. I like doing this stuff, from the 'passion' standpoint, but the practical arborist side of me just can't stand there and chit-chat woodworking with a stranger for the better part of an hour during daylight hours. People just assume if you produce a piece of woodworking, that you're a woodworker. Woodworking (craftsmanship) is a rather leisure, patient, time-absorbing activity. Those who do this sort of thing don't tend to be efficiency-driven, production oriented type A personalities, like myself. It just seems whenever I begin working on a piece it's like an unconscious yet deliberate decision to grind my business to a halt, or at the very least, shot it in the foot. Not just for the actual building of the piece, but the pulling together and putting away of the non-arborist tools, the cleanup, the delivery, the communication, and then paying whoever might have been helping you.



Just some food for thought.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 23, 2010)

I'll keep pumping you out pictures, though. It is pretty cool stuff.
Here's the build of the bench from the previous photo above:






I attach duct tape as a 'line' and to keep the cut edge from splintering.






A belt sander was used to smooth out the saw marks.






Cutting off the end of the dovetail gives you an exact pattern to trace.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 23, 2010)

Plunge-cutting is often a requirement. Use care.







Note the veggie oil splatter. I use vegetable oil exclusively in all my chainsaws. Petroleum-based bar oil has its problems, like the petroleum smell, people will sit on it, sanding it out creates fine oil-coated dust particles. Be aware of these things.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 23, 2010)

kevin bingham said:


> Tree Machine, As for surfacing quickly in the field, have you tried a large hand held power planer?


 I'm not ignoring you, Kevin. I've just got a short story and a few really juicy images to share regarding this.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 24, 2010)

Here's some images I came across, these were my very first benches ever, the result of my very first Woodmizer session.





SImple, plop a beam on a couple crosscut sections. Fancy it up by taking advantage of that you just hit a nail, took out only the right-side teeth on your chain and your saw is cutting curves.





Here's one even simpler. Just a beam on a couple crosscut sections.






Here's the opposite end of the first bench.






Making use of the features at hand. Dado a stump, insert the board.


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 27, 2010)

Here's an interesting design. This one is made of sandstone, but I know this could be made from 4 pieces of wood, three if you can pull off the running plunge rip-cuts. 

I like this one. It lends itself well to thick-cut stock. Simple, rustic, and like Eden says


Eden said:


> it is quick, rough and ready...... it has it's own rustic appeal and a utilitarian focus


----------



## Tree Machine (Feb 27, 2010)

This fallen tree was downed by a creek. The owner asked if I could make a seat out of the log. I said "Sure!"

The stump acted as a very sturdy mount.


----------



## Tree Machine (Mar 10, 2010)

As advice to everyone, just know that doing this level of woodworking (large pieces) means your materials are *heavy*. They are, after all, logs.
Heavy wood needs heavy lifting, or being suspending by some sort of hoist, or lifted by some device. This is hard work, and it seems to get exponentially harder after a certain diameter/weight.

The advice is, be careful. Expect this aspect, plan for it and proceed with care. You're shifting heavy wood and slinging a chainsaw. Physical activity really doesn't get a whole lot more raw than that. _Use any advantage that you can. _


Here's a picture of a medium-size log arch, called the fetching arch. This arch had both tongs AND a winch system and man, it was versatile, you could maneuver it easily just alone, it did amazing and quick lifting tasks and it spurred me to try an large number of projects like what we're talking about in this thread. You could tow it down the street. I'm so sorry I sold it as it (looking back) was a key tool for whisking 800 pound logs around and doing this stuff, especially mulch pits (more on that in a moment).

If you're gonna do this stuff, you have to move the log from place A to place B, and then shift and position and fit it, which means moving the log. If you have two people, one will spend 95% of the time standing and watching you, staying clear of the chainsaw. I rarely _want_ another person around, this is a creative process.

The point of this post is, wood heavy - arch lift - arch good.






Or SOMETHING to help you move heavy wood around, a dolly at minimum. ball cart or bale cart more preferable.


I created a heavy-duty cart to haul big chunks, or support the far end of a really long log in teaming up with the arch. Mostly to move piles of brush, multiple smaller logs, firewood or all my gear. Here in this picture, I fell in love with this log. In cutting it up there was a deep, chocolate brown, mmmmm, It was Russian Olive. Even though the log is short and contorted, I really wanted to mill this log. I could feel it with this piece, and it was a brute to get out of the sloping back yard, and then getting home with it.

You really have to think about logistics, or a single step in the project can eat your day.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 10, 2010)

I love turning bowls out of R. olive, especially when there are a lot of sucker-knots that express throughout the wood. I have a huge "salad" bowl I gave to my mom for mothers day a decade ago that has the coolest figure to it. Where is that pic?


----------



## Bermie (Mar 10, 2010)

Well I made my first bench from the coconut stumps and a section of the trunk, it has a nice bow in it...borrowing a computer, can't get the pictures up yet...
It was fun to do!


----------



## EdenT (Mar 11, 2010)

*Yeah, this stuff isn't as easy as these guys make it look!*

Well I did my first bench a couple of weeks ago and finally have the pictures for it. It is _Acmena smithii_. Looking at the pictures now it's so rough. Hope I don't get too flamed for it. Thanks TM for the inspiration. I will be doing more of this from now on. The HO was wrapped that I made her a keepsake of her tree. It's functional, doesn't wobble and will sit in some secluded spot in her garden for many years I hope.





One problem, is that it has cracked a bit at the ends as it has dried. Should you age it, or seal it to prevent this happening?


----------



## Tree Machine (Mar 11, 2010)

That's awesome, Eden! You did it! Homeowners love this stuff, a little remembrance of their tree.

It will crack. You can seal the ends, but it will crack. It's just a thing about wet wood building, shrinking, etc. The amish had it down to where their mortises would shrink around the tenons and their barns would tighten up over time.

I'd accept the cracking as part of the personality. 



What do you have going on, Bermie? Kick us down some pictures of your coco bench.


----------



## gr8scott72 (Mar 11, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> That's awesome, Eden! You did it! Homeowners love this stuff, a little remembrance of their tree.
> 
> It will crack. You can seal the ends, but it will crack. It's just a thing about wet wood building, shrinking, etc. The amish had it down to where their mortises would shrink around the tenons and their barns would tighten up over time.
> 
> ...



Well, you inspired me too. I have a home show coming up in which I am displaying my skid steer and stump grinder and going to be there signing people up for free estimates on tree work. Instead of just using the plain table that they provide, I made my own out of some red oak logs.


----------



## EdenT (Mar 12, 2010)

Great scott gr8scott, that's great....Scott!

Your work looks a little advanced for newbie at carving 101 though? What did you do it with?


----------



## gr8scott72 (Mar 12, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Great scott gr8scott, that's great....Scott!
> 
> Your work looks a little advanced for newbie at carving 101 though? What did you do it with?



I cheated. Recently bought an Alaskan mill.

Here's where I cut for this table:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=2098444&posted=1#post2098444

And here's the first project I started working on. (Haven't quite finished that one yet.)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=108078


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 12, 2010)

EdenT said:


> One problem, is that it has cracked a bit at the ends as it has dried. Should you age it, or seal it to prevent this happening?





Tree Machine said:


> The amish had it down to where their mortises would shrink around the tenons and their barns would tighten up over time.
> 
> I'd accept the cracking as part of the personality.



I agree that end-grain cracking is part of the character of rustic furniture. You need a very controlled atmosphere to prevent it from happening. one of the reasons that timer is sawn as thin as possible, and they only want straight logs.

The old-country timber-framers who worked with oak and other hard woods wrote that they were to hard to work when dried, and the shrinkage that Jim mentions was an asset.


----------



## tree md (Mar 12, 2010)

The mention of tenoning and mortising brought this old book I found online to mind. It is copyrighted 1914. Check out the section on saw filing and using the grindstone to sharpen chisels and tools, as well as the tenoning and mortising chapter. I love reading old books that describe how artisans did it in the old days. 

Pretty cool stuff:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20763/20763-h/20763-h.htm


----------



## pwoller (Apr 2, 2010)

Is that the monon trail? Looks familiar.



Tree Machine said:


> I'm a sensitive arborist, quite proud of the fact, and my treecare business thrives even in this depressed economy. I've been called names and told I'm flat out stupid for using canola oil as bar lube in a chainsaw. However, the science proves otherwise, I'm 9 + years into it, still doing just fine, saws are running strong, all 4 seasons, no downsides, just benefit. A lot of pro saw users are changing over without any problems. However, there's the larger crowd that won't change simply because change is change and change scares the crap out of a lot of people. All I can do is bring the information to the front, let the community make their own choices and not lose sleep over it.
> 
> 
> Heh, heh. Thanks, MD. I thought the treehouse was a cool idea, too. The creative / artsy fartsy part of me is perpetually inspired. The science side is uniquely trained and talented. The business side of me is dumb as dirt sometimes.
> ...


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2010)

Anyone want to buy a gently used Hugo Arch? Mine still has thee mold nubs on the tires 

Since i married and moved I've not had the work i bought it for.


----------



## TreeTarget (Apr 17, 2010)

epicklein22 said:


> I guess the tree company I work for is a minority. We have a yard full of "saw logs". We call up a logging company and they come load up their tri-axle. All we have to do is call. I don't know what we get paid though, I would imagine we take a little less considering the risk of metal.



That's the way it was in Wisconsin with my first job in tree care. Boss would save all he could for a month or two and then have them picked up by a mill. He also had his firewood mill on conveyors, so we would save most anything down to about 3 inches. Could have easily been some of the bigger mounds of cut firewood I have ever seen, by the end of summer.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 17, 2010)

Was that up north? The local mills will not take anything from a residential company in MKE. A couple of guys here have a relationship with an Antigo mill that will cream off winter logs. They upgraded a few years ago and need to get as many loads as possible to keep up, at least last year...


----------



## CJ-7 (Apr 17, 2010)

When I saw the "Urban Logging" thread, I was thinking along a different line. Many times I have seen vacant wooded parcels adjacent to strip malls or subdivisions (urban?) that needed clearing in order to build the next Kohl's or another subdivision or some apartments. Here a land clearing contractor would decend on the site with thousands of horsepower in the way of whole tree chippers, D-8's with stingers for stump removal, Hydro-Axes for heavy brushing and massive tracked stump grinders. When they were all done, all you could see was a huge pile of chips (if they didn't chip it directly into a semi-trailer) and a PILE OF LOGS ready to take to the mill.

As a side note, two of our local tree services slab some of the better wood at about 2-3", plane it, router in their names and assemble benches for placement in front of any interested business as a service with some advertising to boot.

Also we have a wood burning power plant within 50 miles that will accept chipped material, don't know if they pay or not.


----------



## TreeTarget (Apr 17, 2010)

Link to our wood-working group pics, with milled wood stacks...we try to save what we can that seems worth the time and effort. Have to pick and choose though, or it would all take too much time.

http://www.arboristsite.com/album.php?albumid=464


----------



## TreeTarget (Apr 19, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Was that up north? The local mills will not take anything from a residential company in MKE. A couple of guys here have a relationship with an Antigo mill that will cream off winter logs. They upgraded a few years ago and need to get as many loads as possible to keep up, at least last year...



No, around Cambridge, WI...not far from Lake Geneva, but at 30-35 mph there and back, it made for one LONG commute every morning. Don't know who it was that came to pick the logs up...was just a grunt then, too.


----------



## Tree Machine (Apr 20, 2010)

CJ-7 said:


> When I saw the "Urban Logging" thread, I was thinking along a different line. Many times I have seen vacant wooded parcels adjacent to strip malls or subdivisions (urban?) that needed clearing in order to build the next Kohl's or another subdivision or some apartments.



It could mean that. Or a city-owned lot where storm-downed trees logs are stored. Or individual arborists (or whomever) pulling primo logs instead of whacking them into firewood. The route we've taken, though, is of reclamation of specific site logs within the urban forest and what's been done with them.

Here's a reference book with some of the exact things we're talking about in this thread.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 20, 2010)

TreeTarget said:


> but at 30-35 mph there and back, it made for one LONG commute every morning.



I do that every day  Some of my clients I will drive 100 miles or more in a day.


----------



## TreeTarget (Apr 20, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I do that every day  Some of my clients I will drive 100 miles or more in a day.



Been alot of places, but have never had to go 30-35 in the country like in WI. That is the main reason I left that job...one hour commute each way at no more than 35 mph gave me more long days than I needed at the time. No 9-5 then, no 9-5 now. Just need the 4 hours to sleep a couple to sit and eat.


----------



## deeker (Apr 20, 2010)

Jimmychips said:


> My experience has been that the sawmills won't touch "yard" trees. Too many clotheslines, birdhouses, hammocks, dog runs, ect. for them to even risk trashing a blade. I have found however that the port-a-mill guys are a little more flexible. Our wood either goes through the chipper, or through the splitter.



When we are delivered a "yard tree" we get out the metal detector.

If is sings the Marines Hymn or the national anthem....it is firewood.

I hate chiseling out nails, insulators, spikes, fencing, one customer brought me a couple of large juniper/cedar from a camping area. We knew there would be dozens of bullets. He bought two blades in advance. And I milled the logs...into mantels. Full of bullet holes and half bullets!!

Made nice mantels!!!

Kevin


----------



## Bermie (Apr 20, 2010)

Just finished working on a Mahogany tree today...HO kept a nice 10' log I managed to get down in one piece, probably only 1' diameter...good size for 17 yr old tree!! 
Its nice when a HO wants to keep good wood instead of seeing it turn into chips or firewood, or go to the dump.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 21, 2010)

TreeTarget said:


> No, around Cambridge, WI...not far from Lake Geneva, but at 30-35 mph there and back, it made for one LONG commute every morning. Don't know who it was that came to pick the logs up...was just a grunt then, too.



Cambridge is close to Madison then Geneva...FWIW

Though I know what you're talking about. I am in the St. Martins area of Franklin and around 5 min from the freeway, I can take the I or US 45 and am 45 min to an hour from almost anywhere. There are a few times a day when the "rush minute" cycles to back things up, it can add 15-20 min to any drive.


----------



## beastmaster (Apr 21, 2010)

When I started this thread I was thinking of specialty woods, such as they use in cabinet making or moldings. I have been learning a lot on Urban logging in general. A long time ago I work for a guy who had a portable mill. It was like a big band saw. They had a contract with the forest dept. and each spring he would go in to balch redwood forest and remove falling branches and mill them and did pretty well.(not urban logging,but the mill was perfect for a urban situation.
We had a old wood worker here locally, who recently passed away. Sam Maloof. Great old guy. We still do tree work for his estate. If we came across some thing special we would drop it off at his shop. He had several apprentices who would come from all over the world to work with him. One of his rocking chairs could sell for over 100,000.00(he made a friends of mines little girl a rocking horse)Google Sam Maloof if you want to see some work from a master. There is a video of him and movie star Renee Russo on u tube meeting(we do her trees also)and talking woodworking. Pretty cool. He'll be missed. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/arts/design/27maloof.html


----------



## Bermie (Apr 21, 2010)

I posted a while back about my coconut palm bench...here is a picture finally


----------



## TreeTarget (Apr 27, 2010)

Salt, sugar-cubes? Does your house melt when it rains? Kidding...how does it affect the interior temperature?


----------



## Bermie (Apr 28, 2010)

I guess you mean the house in my picture!! I guess it does look like a sugar cube!

It's not my house, but the home of the St. George's Historical Society and is 300+ years old.
Typical Bermudian architecture, walls made of limestone block sawn by hand from the hills. Mortar in those days was made with whale oil.
The roof is how we catch rainwater for drinking...design and construction methods are laregely still used to this day, lapped limestone slates over a wood frame, plastered and painted.

That house is lovely and cool inside, before the days of air conditioning, houses would have been sited and built to make the best use of prevailing breezes to keep and airflow throughout. However in the winter when its cold outside (relatively!!), it can be chilly and damp, hence the fireplaces. The big fireplace is in the kitchen...no Whirlpool ranges in those days!

St. George's is our historic World Heritage Site...I live down this way!

The palms were leaning towards the house and over the roof, any one coconut would smash straight through the roof, not to mention the equally old houses not far away that would be targets for flying nuts in a storm! Oh yes and the stay wire for the electricity pole was like 4" from one trunk. Liability and repair costs were the deciding factors in the bye-bye for the coconut palms!


----------



## tree md (May 10, 2010)

Very cool Bermie. It truly looks like paradise where you live.

Also enjoyed the article on Sam Maloof Beast. It's hard to imagine the amount knowledge lost when a craftsman such as Sam Maloof passes on. In the mass production society we live in today, does anyone even do mortise and tenion joints anymore? I've been reading Clifford Ashly's Book of Knots recently and have often thought of all the knowledge that is lost with modern advancements and when one generation is replaced by another. Even as younger climbers and newer tools and techniques replace older, I wonder if there will even be a place for old school climbers in the future. Kind of reminds me of a lyric in an old ELO tune...

_"You're sailing softly through the sun
in a broken stone age dawn.
You fly so high"._


----------



## TreeTarget (May 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> Very cool Bermie. It truly looks like paradise where you live.
> 
> Also enjoyed the article on Sam Maloof Beast. It's hard to imagine the amount knowledge lost when a craftsman such as Sam Maloof passes on. In the mass production society we live in today, does anyone even do mortise and tenion joints anymore? I've been reading Clifford Ashly's Book of Knots recently and have often thought of all the knowledge that is lost with modern advancements and when one generation is replaced by another. Even as younger climbers and newer tools and techniques replace older, I wonder if there will even be a place for old school climbers in the future. Kind of reminds me of a lyric in an old ELO tune...
> 
> ...



I have had a problem with that myself, for a very long time. From quite a few years ago, I felt an urge to leave things behind. I am still stuck to my computer to learn at a pace that I never imagined before...but I have disliked and distruste technology more, the more I learned about it and used it.

I spent very little for my bow at a pawn shop, spent even less to have it modified, shot better than I would have ever dreamed I could...and basically gave it away. I want a bow I make...a long bow, or daiku.
Same has happened with tools. I HAVE to use power saws (I don't have the lifespan for continuous sawing, and I don't have access to a waterwheel).

But otherwise, I prefer the hammer and chisel, the gouge, the rasp and the blades of the draw, pear and pocket knives. Mortise and tenon joints are solid, functional and quite secure when applied properly. I can't think of another way I would prefer, and when you craft a piece that will be around for (hopefully) ages, you know it isn't coming from X-Mart or Hunan Province.

And speaking about tools...In the last year, I have been making my own. Not much more than a monkey with a stick compared with a fully functional machine shop...but I am not ashamed of the outcomes. Some were lessons not to do it that way again, but most are turning out to be surprising successes.
He's not lost...S. made something of his good work, and that will be here long after long after our worries are gone.
Just remember to do your duty and pass on what you know...


----------



## Groundman One (May 24, 2010)

beastmaster said:


> I know theres a milling forum, But I'm wondering if any tree service owners harvest the lumber from take downs.



We keep all the firewood we can, obviously, and we have a guy with a nice little trailer mounted clam and since last year he's been picking up a lot of our stuff. He'll take pieces as small as 8" across and about 8' long. The biggest he can handle is about 2'x20', depending on the wood. He never pays for it, but it saves us from bucking it up, loading it, taking it to the yard, dumping it, letting it take up space while it rots of burning it, so it's a good deal for both of us. 

Sometimes he gets some really nice pieces (pine or spruce usually), but we don't charge him for them, in exchange he'll load up some stuff we want to keep and drop it off at our yard for us. Real time saver.


----------



## tree md (Sep 11, 2010)

*A little recycling*

A little recycling that my friends are doing. I do the tree work on their property but brought these large rounds in from another job. They use their property to host weddings for a side business. Pretty cool little venture IMO.

Anyway, the have requested all the large rounds and pieces that no one wants for firewood. Kind of convenient for me because no one wants the really big rounds and I either have to split it or travel to dump it. They live right up the road so it is very convenient for me to just drop it up there for them.

Here are some of their creations. The grass runway with the decorated logs is where the bride and groom enter:


----------



## Tree Machine (Sep 11, 2010)

Excellent examples, MD.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 12, 2010)

Larry, how deep are those rounds? I've done it a few times and find they do not last if just cookies.


----------



## tree md (Sep 12, 2010)

John, they are 6-8 inches. The pics are a little deceiving, the cookies at the bottom are nearly 3' in diameter. I had originally cut them in right at 1 foot lengths to roll out and load. He called me back up there to cut them in half again for him because he was having trouble burying them deep enough to make them even. He stained and lacquered them that day after I took the pics which should help a little with longevity. Don't matter how long they last to me though... I'll make more.


----------

