# lowered out of the same lead he was tied into



## luvthetrobag (Jun 22, 2007)

5 years before i ever considered climbing(been climbing years now) an older friend of mine had been climbing for 2 years. To make a long story short he died. The piece he was lowering out of and tied into broke out and he fell about 60 feet. years later i became a climber and have never forgot this story. It has reminded me of the unknown dangeruos in a tree. anyone else ever heard of a healthy strong piece breaking off freakishly. im curious how often this happens.I always trie to avoid being tied in near my lowering point or i will run my rope throug multiple crothes to distribute weight.


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## Bermie (Jun 22, 2007)

Key phrase 'lowering out of and tied into' 

Whenever possible, the lowering line should be in another lead completely (or another tree) from the one you are tied into. Exceptions may be lowering a straight stem in pieces while tied into it, but you would have inspected it to ensure it was sound enough to handle shock loading. But I suppose there is always the freak event, the unseen internal defect...
I have just finished a huge poinciana, multiple targets below, half the tree was done with a bucket truck and the rest by climbing. ALWAYS my tie in point was on another branch completely from the lowering pulley.
Always look at the situation and ask 'what will happen if this goes wrong?'


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## Stumpcutter1 (Jun 22, 2007)

Many times Ive had to lower chunks or limbs from big old evergreens with nothing else to tie to havent much option then


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## anuvadave (Jul 22, 2007)

Im very sorry to hear about youre friend...

Im no veteran of the tree game but heres my two bobs worth.

ive had a lowering point snap of what i thought was a healthy tree - luckily i wasnt tied into that branch, I was using 3 lowering points with pulleys as well. since then ive been really really pedantic about lowering setups & about how ppl lower from the ground.

I was taught if you had to tie on the branch youre lowering off - tie in below. 
(saying that i dont do it all that often)

I have a weak link on my harness ( a small keychain carabiner ). If im at all worried that the lowering point could snap out with my lifeline in it, then ill clip into the weak link (whilst using my polestrap obviously) 

another point, every tree i do i always lower of a small branch first, this gives the "groundies" a good indication of the weight before doing bigger bits. It also is an oppotunity for me to assess the health of the tree - "is there any rot? or evidence of stress?" . Also i look to see how far i cut thru the branch b4 it broke off, this gives me some idea of the strength of the timber (not very scientific, i just made this up, but its better than just climbing up & smokin out big limbs!)

I also reckon its good to have just 1 guy on the ropes the whole day - I know it gives everyone else the ????s but i reckon its just better & safer.

lastly dont work 4 ppl who make you feel pressured while working - If someone yells up at me "Just cut it!". I stop, triple check everything again & go back to what i was doing. Getting distracted by some dickhead on the ground can cause accidents.

ok ive crapped on for long enough.
just think b4 u cut, dont do ANYTHING youre not comfortable with, & take everyones ideas with a pinch of salt (especially mine hehe)


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## Stachura01 (Aug 9, 2007)

some common wood like red oak, Quercus rubra(oooohhhh), is known to freakishly snap in high heat. look out below!


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## gitrdun_climbr (Sep 2, 2007)

Mostly conifers here so we lower off the tie-in trunk alot. Take small tops; keep as much rope in the rigging system as possible; tie in ABOVE your rigging lest it slip down; make damn sure your ground guy is set up to LET IT RUN, etc. Other than that, maybe a small prayer!


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## murphy4trees (Sep 18, 2007)

When it is a matter of life and death, it is so important to reduce shock loads when rigging... 

The most important thing to remember is it is not the fall that creates shock loading, but the STOP!... #1 way to minimize the load during the STOP is to use a line with good stretch in it.. Dynamic lines for rigging... True blue and hi vee work well, with true blue being the better of the two... Don't use that double braid with high tensile strength, which has very little stretch... Then letting the load run with control, would be the second most important factor.... and then probably tying near the balance point and notching pieces over with a well directed hinge, to swing the piece smoothly into the rigging when possible, or if blocking down a spar, keeping the notch as close to the block as possible... and then adding length to the line to get even more stretch, And of course cut smaller pieces when in doubt...

It is good to practice all those techniques as much as possible in non critical situations so that when you need it... you are there...

Safe climbing...


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## oldugly (Sep 21, 2007)

great post murphy,
another method I use quite often is to wrap once before the lowering point, this takes the pressure from the one side of the spar, and distributes it throughout the trunk. Recently I removed a large elm over a house, deck hill boathouse, and sever cute little spruces..you get the point
Typicial of most elms, the tree was almost bisymetrical, codominant leads, split into another codominant, into another codominant, etc.
My highest tie in point was also the only stregic lowering point for most of my material, so I lowered off of one side of the lead and tied off to the other side of the same lead.
When I finally removed the major lead that had supported both myself and my lowered material, I found a hollow spot that was hidden under a dead stub...to make a long story short, the lead had approx. 2 inches of wood holding me, and my lowering point. Fortunately no failure...but possibility, even probablity was definitely there...totally unknown to me.
Really sorry to hear about the loss of your friend, and I could easily see it happening.


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 21, 2007)

murphy4trees said:


> When it is a matter of life and death, it is so important to reduce shock loads when rigging...
> 
> The most important thing to remember is it is not the fall that creates shock loading, but the STOP!... #1 way to minimize the load during the STOP is to use a line with good stretch in it.. Dynamic lines for rigging... True blue and hi vee work well, with true blue being the better of the two... Don't use that double braid with high tensile strength, which has very little stretch... Then letting the load run with control, would be the second most important factor.... and then probably tying near the balance point and notching pieces over with a well directed hinge, to swing the piece smoothly into the rigging when possible, or if blocking down a spar, keeping the notch as close to the block as possible... and then adding length to the line to get even more stretch, And of course cut smaller pieces when in doubt...
> 
> ...




Good post!!!


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## lees trees (Sep 21, 2007)

I can only recall one lowering point breaking out under load. It was a cherry and a surprise. we were getting a wrap on another tree to much side pull. on topping pines I leave a couple branches on the stob to dampen the ride


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## ropensaddle (Sep 22, 2007)

It will help to understand modulus of rupture
of different woods this term is used to express
different strength of green wood as species can
vary drastically! What you can get by with in a lobloly
will get you hurt in a cottonwood poplar. Also some trees 
have strong wood but weak attachments Hacklebury is
bad about splitting down low! I have tied in below rigging
point and climbed up to cut if the top snaps at least I will
not hit ground. I have witnessed sweetgum snapping large
limbs from overloaded gum balls on a calm day.


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