# Two ricks is a truckload?



## freemind (Dec 14, 2010)

Let me start off by saying, I cut my own firewood and sell a little on the side.

I built a new forced air woodburner (outside) to heat my house. Long of the short, I am burning three times the wood I have previously burned with the other add on furnace. 

Being a very busy guy, I haven't got enough wood on hand, Got some logs around (dead elm) but not home yet as the weather has not been co-operating. 

SO, I bought two "ricks" of wood from a local tree service to help tide me over till the weekend. I know the folks that own it, as our boys know each other. These folks have been selling wood for alot of years, more than me.

When the wood arrived today, I presumed it was only coming ONE rick at a time. Strange I thought to myself, as the guy had it in a dumptruck. 

I know here, most anyone who describes a "rick", describes it as a pile stacked 4'x8' by cut length. Mind you I bought and paid cash for two ricks. SO, I should have a pile 4'x16' right? A pile like that thrown in just a normal pick-up truck should be a big heaping load, IMO. What I have on the ground is not more than a level truck load. 

Also mind you I paid them 115 dollars for the TWO ricks. When I am selling, I sell a level truck load for 50 bucks. 

Even had a good bit of little diameter limb wood and even pieces that were ALOT longer than I was told I would get. A few peices are 30+ inches and nothing was supposed to be more than 24 inches. 

So, did I get hosed, or do I need to double/triple my wood prices? A cord goes for about 200 bucks in these parts, buying it by the truckload. (truckloads sell for 50-60 bucks)

P.S. my wife also was not happy in the least. Her comment was "I don't know much about wood, but for $115 we should have gotton more than a weeks worth of wood!" She also noted that it was no more wood than I loaded on my 3/4 ton truck and sold for $50.


----------



## sunfish (Dec 14, 2010)

You need to stack it up in two 4'x8' rows and see what you got. Sometimes a 
pile doesn't look like much.


----------



## banshee67 (Dec 14, 2010)

freemind said:


> Let me start off by saying, I cut my own firewood and sell a little on the side.
> 
> I built a new forced air woodburner (outside) to heat my house. Long of the short, I am burning three times the wood I have previously burned with the other add on furnace.
> 
> ...



unless you discussed what his definition of a "rick" was before delivering, he could have brought you a 5 gallon bucket full of 2x4" scraps with a handful of twigs on top

you said a cord goes for $200 , sold "by the truckload"... and a "truckload" is $50-60.... what is a truckload!? by prices, im guessing a truckload is 1/4 cord? that must be an awfully small truck

the way i understand the whole "rick" mess, is it is one 4x8' row of stacked wood.. weather its cut to 8" lengths or 2foot lengths... so really.. there is the problem right there

so how much of a cord, did you expect your 2 "ricks" to be?  1/2 cord? 2/3 cord? 
this is so confusing 

on the other hand, 2 "ricks" could fill the back of a honda pilot, or the back of a 12foot dump bed f550.. it all depends on whos selling them, all the more reason you shuld try to buy "1/2 cord" or "1 cord"

also, i cant believe anyone would cut wood to 30" lengths *(unless a OWB owner asked for it).. 30 inches is huge !


----------



## rwbinbc (Dec 14, 2010)

I sell two ricks out of My 1/2 ton f150, With a short bed and 18" sides added. We try to throw it in so there not alot of hole But You can tell when shes sqauts so far thats a good two ricks of wood. I do have a bend in the frame as the space between the cab and bed differ alot. From 1" at the bottom to almost 2" at the top.

A rick around here = 1/3 of a cord or also called a face cord


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 14, 2010)

First we need to agree on wood measure.

"Ricks", "face cords", "chopped liver cords", "bananas" etc....do not exist.

To reiterate ad nauseum (will C² enter this ?):

1 CORD = A PILE OR STACK OF WOOD THAT MEAURES 4' x 4' X 8'. IT IS ALSO A VOLUME THAT = 128 CUBIC FEET OF WOOD. 

Whether or not you got a bad deal is up to you and the seller. Stack the wood you got so it approximates the above measure. Then it's simple: the stack is either what you paid for, or not. No arguments, no fights with your wife.

JMNSHO


----------



## indiansprings (Dec 14, 2010)

In my area wood is bought and sold by the "rick". Width of wood x 8' x 4' high.
Most on here refer to it as a "face cord". Piles can be deceiving.
The only way to tell is drive you some post and stack it up, but it sounds like you may have been raped. When we were using a normal 8' truck bed it would absolutely be heaped to the max stacked in, a half ton should look over loading the rear end should be dropped. In my area you could have bought two rick or face cord of seasoned oak for 70.00 delivered and dumped.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Dec 14, 2010)

Yep, a buying a rick is like buying a pile or a bunch or crap load. Just doesn't mean much unless everyone using the term is on the same page.

Ian


----------



## freemind (Dec 14, 2010)

I have two trucks.

One is a dodge with a 6' box. That holds 1/4 of a cord mounded up. 

My other truck is a 3/4 ton ford that has an 8' box. Level full is just over 1/4 of a cord.

Either truck load, I sell for 50 bucks. Other sellers that are advertiseing, not so local, are selling for the same prices for the same amounts of wood. 

True I have not stacked it, but I can tell just by looking at it, there is no pile 4'x16'. 

My stacking area is staked on a concrete pad. There is 16' between the stakes. I KNOW there isn't enough wood to fill 4' high between stakes. 

Hope the jerk cokes on the money he ripped me off of.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Dec 14, 2010)

Its sold by ricks around here. Id never herd of a cord until I found this site. It really doesnt take much wood to make a rick. I cut mine 16'' long and can get half a rick stacked in the bed of a polaris ranger. Make 2 trips from the wood pile to the porch and I have a rick. It dont look like a rick either when Its dumped out.


----------



## Alan Smith (Dec 14, 2010)

*UK College of AGRICULTURE Laurel County*

Every winter
we look
forward to
the pleasures
of
warming
our hands
and feet by a blazing fire, mesmerized
by the dancing flames.
When buying firewood two factors
will determine just how hot your fire
is-seasoning and the kind of wood.
Wood is made up of air and cellulose
(wood fiber). The more air space that
wood has, the less there is to burn.
Buying wood with the heaviest/
densest per unit volume will keep you
toasty. Osage Orange Hickory Black Locust
all of the oaks~sugar maple and ash
produce hot fires; plus they are easy
__ .J
to split.
Yellow poplar, silver maple and red
maple provide much less heat per log
but are good for kindling because
they catch fire quickly.
Avoid elm, sycamore and sweet gum
because they are not as warm, and
their fibers are so interlaced they will
not split.
The good firewood species are found
in Kentucky, although suppliers sometimes
will identify their stock only as
"hardwoods" without specifying the
species. Be sure to ask what kind of
wood you are buying.
The second thing to look for when
buying firewood is how much water is
in the wood. Since wood com~e-s-f-rom
a living plant, it contains water. The
more water in the wood, the less
heat it generates when it burns.
Ask the vendor if the wood is seasoned.
Wood is 50 percent moisture
and needs six months to a year
to dry out enough to burn efficiently.
Dry or seasoned wood has
splits in the ends of the logs and a
gray appearance.
Firewood is sold in a variety of
measures. A cord measures 4 feet
wide by 4 feet high by 8 feet long.
Often this is too much for the occasional
user, as most homeowners
are. Many vendors will price their:
firewood by the pickup truckload.
For the warmest fires at the best
price, do some comparative shopping
before you buy.


----------



## banshee67 (Dec 14, 2010)

freemind said:


> I have two trucks.
> 
> One is a dodge with a 6' box. That holds 1/4 of a cord mounded up.
> 
> ...



see, now youre talking in terms of cords.. a minute ago it was "ricks"?

did the vendor tell you a "rick" was a stack 4ft high by 8 ft long?

how can you say that other sellers are selling the same amount of wood as you are, for the same price, when you are basing all this on the term "truck load", and obviously not even stacking these "truck loads" in the truck bed? this makes no sense, we could both have the same f250 with 8' bed, and we could both be throwing the wood in loose, and one of us could still end up with much more wood than the other.. size of splits, the way each piece falls into the pile when thrown, etc, all factors in the amount of wood you will get with a "thrown truck load" like you are talking about

you seem to be hovering back and fourth between legit firewood terms like cord, and ricks, truckloads and all that crap, which really makes the story extremely hard to follow

if the guy defined his "ricks" as 4x8' STACK of wood, and you stacked both, and dont have a 4x16' STACK, then you have every right to say youve been ripped off...
while at the same time.. if some of these lengths are 30" or so, you might have more *volume*(more actualwood) than a 4x8 stack of 16" lengths even though the stack is not 4x8 from the front
but you arnt looking for volume, you are looking for 4x8 frontal appearance of a stack it seems?..so really your rick, which doesnt make a 4x8 stack of 16" pieces, cxould possibly have MORE wood in it than a 4x8 stack with 16" peices if many of these pieces are longer than 16"...

so which would you rather have, a 4x8 stack of 16" lengths, or a 3x8 stack of 24" lengths" the first will look like more wood from looking at the stack from the front, but the second will actually BE more wood, although technically its not a "rick" ... are you starting to see how stupid these terms are yet?

in closing: OEIJHOIEhj [email protected]#IEJHOIEJ oiHOe h32903u294 [email protected]#$Iho342ih oi4h23oi43 pio324ho3i4hoiu4h this is why you DONT deal with ricks, face cords, or any of that other nonsense... real in cords, and the possibility of interpretation is never there.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Dec 14, 2010)

:deadhorse:

The time to question what you are getting for your money is not after the sale has been consummated and the seller is far down the road. I would never buy something that I (and the seller) did not have an agreement on.

Would you go into an automobile dealership and sign a sales agreement for a "car"? No, you would know exactly what model it would be and the options that it is to have built into it. If you fail to have that understanding prior to entering into an agreement, expect to be burned.

In the future, deal in the universally recognized measurement, a cord. That way, you have a defined measurement to judge the seller's performance against.


----------



## TreePointer (Dec 14, 2010)

> This < is a rick. Do you really want that to spread? In the name of all that's decent, please stop that rick madness and buy wood in cords.


----------



## branchbuzzer (Dec 14, 2010)

freemind said:


> I have two trucks.
> 
> One is a dodge with a 6' box. That holds 1/4 of a cord mounded up.
> 
> ...



Most 8 foot beds hold about one-half cord neatly stacked, so how is it yours only holds just over a quarter?

My 6 foot S-10 bed is ~5 cu ft short of one-third cord ( 5'x6'x16", I don't count the wheel wells ) , neatly stacked. Yours is only 1/4 cord mounded up?

It kinda seems the loose and variable way that you've been throwing the wood you sell in your own trucks just came full circle and bit you in the hind-end.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Dec 14, 2010)

Courtesy of Dictionary.com:

rick /rɪk/ Show Spelled[rik]

2. a stack of cordwood or logs cut to even lengths. 

No mention of any volume in the definition at all.....


----------



## branchbuzzer (Dec 14, 2010)

Guido Salvage said:


> Courtesy of Dictionary.com:
> 
> rick /rɪk/ Show Spelled[rik]
> 
> ...



from thefreedictionary.com:

rick (rk)
n. A stack of hay, straw, or similar material, especially when covered or thatched for protection from the weather.

rick1
n. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Agriculture) a large stack of hay, corn, peas, etc., built in the open in a regular-shaped pile, esp one with a thatched top


I always thatch my firewood to protect it from the snow....


----------



## CTYank (Dec 14, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> First we need to agree on wood measure.
> 
> "Ricks", "face cords", "chopped liver cords", "bananas" etc....do not exist.
> 
> ...



:agree2: Precisely. And reportedly in some states the only unit of measure of wood is the cord. (Actually 128 cu. ft. of wood and air, as stacked.)

This business of "ricks" or "face cords" has absolutely no place in business transactions. Simply a means to a "gotcha" as seen here.

Say what you mean; mean what you say. No guesstimation.


----------



## Wind Walker (Dec 14, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> Most 8 foot beds hold about one-half cord neatly stacked, so how is it yours only holds just over a quarter?
> 
> My 6 foot S-10 bed is ~5 cu ft short of one-third cord ( 5'x6'x16", I don't count the wheel wells ) , neatly stacked. Yours is only 1/4 cord mounded up?
> 
> It kinda seems the loose and variable way that you've been throwing the wood you sell in your own trucks just came full circle and bit you in the hind-end.



I was wondering the same thing. I have a box that is 4x4x8 that is stacked full, that equals 1 cord, this is what I sell out of. The customer sees exactly how much wood he is getting, and most are surprised at how much wood that really is. When they come pick up a cord in a full size pickup, they always have to make two trips. 1 full size pickup a bit over level full thrown in nicely holds about 1/2 cord.


----------



## rwbinbc (Dec 14, 2010)

Anyone thats been burning for a few years should know about what a rick,face cord, or cord looks like or they will get taken. When I pull up I will show You how much wood is there. I've told people before I'll stack it for $10 more. If it doesn't stack up to two ricks its free, They only pay Me to Stack it one time. Then I leave the rest of the wood on the truck. If You dont agree pay the guy a little extra to stack it and if it come up short You actualy pay less. I cut alot of tops and downed trees and most pieces are cut 14" to 18", somewhere in there. Sometime people complain about short pieces but its all wood, Almost all of My peeps keep calling Me back so no biggie. I'm fighting though the snow to get to old tops to cut as I'm out of wood to sell at the house.


----------



## freemind (Dec 14, 2010)

Well, we all do things different from region to region.

NOBODY here stacks wood in their trucks or trailers. It is all thrown in. Not many people here have side boards either. I know I don't.

The chances of firewood being advertised by the cord here are next to NONE. Rick and face cord are the terms used. Dry and seasoned are NOT mutual terms here. 

Matter of fact, there just isn't many people around here that sell wood. Makes life easier for me selling to the lakers. 

Thanks to you that found the need to chatise me though. When are any of you gonna step up and ship the wood here? People don't sell by the cord here. You need to show those uneducated podunks how things are done! Step right up and start hauling your firewood in and compete. 

Some of the replies are less than decent. Oh well. I will remember this when one of you get screwed. Rant about it and I will tell you how much of an idiot you are too.


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 14, 2010)

I've sold "some" wood. not a lot, but some. It's ALL sold by the rick here in "our country". its just that way, don't ask why. If someone sells a "cord" they sell a "3 rick cord" which is 3 16" ricks to make the cord. In our area there HAVE BEEN LEGAL CASES where people sold ricks of wood (and shorted) and got sued. The legal case was won by the people who were shorted because kansas does state that a rick is 4x8x24" and the people selling were selling 4x8x20". The way out of that problem is to say a rick that is 4x8xrequested stove length. and its "about a rick" not a "full rick" you say full rick you'd better give them 4x8x24" and if they ##### that it doesn't fit tell them that's their problem. The price is the same whether its 12" or 16 or 18 or whatever also.


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 14, 2010)

also, 16" wood stacked a little higher (less than 3 inches) than my truck (3/4 ton full sized) bed sides is 2 ricks, which would be 2/3 of a cord. So how on earth you guys can't get a full cord on a full sized truck is beyond me.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Dec 14, 2010)

freemind said:


> Thanks to you that found the need to chatise me though. When are any of you gonna step up and ship the wood here? People don't sell by the cord here. You need to show those uneducated podunks how things are done! Step right up and start hauling your firewood in and compete.
> 
> Some of the replies are less than decent. Oh well. I will remember this when one of you get screwed. Rant about it and I will tell you how much of an idiot you are too.



As I recall, your original post requested opinions and now you are angry that some have been posted? :bang: When you post in an open forum and ask for opinions you should be prepared for the responses. This example is just confirmation that paying after the job is completed is the only way to go.


----------



## banshee67 (Dec 14, 2010)

freemind said:


> NOBODY here stacks wood in their trucks or trailers. It is all thrown in.



what is the reasoning behind this?
especially if you dont have a trailer, why not take the most advantage of a an already small space? 
if youre hand loading it and hand unloading it, i cant see why you wouldnt stack it and get twice as much in each trip, then again maybe its just a regional thing ?
you got a 3/4ton ford with an 8' bed, and youre carrying what most guys put in their ford rangers , just doesnt make sense

i still wondering the same thing though: even in the case of "ricks" "face cords" and all their cousins, why are people most concerned with the measurements of the front of the stack, rather than the overall volume of actual cu ft of WOOD?


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 14, 2010)

the reason people don't worry so much about the cubic feet is because they requested it shorter than 24" so they know the volume. relativly anyway. People around here though are decent enough to not worry about screwing each other to bad most of the time also. If you deliver wood to someone they are always there the first time, and if you want to be in business very long you do it right anyway.


----------



## banshee67 (Dec 14, 2010)

shorter than 24" leaves too much room for interpretation , that could be anything from 12"-22", one is almost twice the amount of the other... still makes no sense to me, maybe im just a slow learner , if a rick is 1/3 cord, call it 1/3 cord, if a rick is 1/4 cord, call it 1/4 cord.. from his story, it sounds like HIS ricks he sells are 1/4 cords( saying he sells ricks and can only get 1/4 cord on his truck_)
so it sound like all he should be expecting from the other guy is 1/2 cord total by the way he himself sells it...which does not = a 4x16" stack of wood, (unless that wood is all 12" long pieces).. but he said some were as long as 30"..again, maybe its me, but this whole scenario makes absolutely no sense , and could easily be rectified easily had they dealt in actual real terms of measurement that can be defined with numbers


----------



## rwbinbc (Dec 14, 2010)

I lived in Battle Creek most of My life and the terms used was face cord and full cord, Now I live 130 miles north and no one know what a face cord is. They call them ricks and cords. If you say face cord they expect a cord. One local company sell wood by the ton. Just dont deal with the guy if he screwed You over. ...... Honesty means alot.


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 14, 2010)

i'm with everyone else on the "you should of known what you are getting part" i've decided. The only difference is that "most" of you guys know a cord is 128 cubic feet (4x4x8) and in my area pretty much everyone knows a "rick" "facecord" whatever is 4x8 by stove length and if no length is mentioned its defaulted at 16". OP should of been clear on terms or should of delt with someone he trusted and knew well enough. I ALWAYS ask people how big their stove is and they understand why wood is sold in ricks in our area (because no one has big stoves)


----------



## turnkey4099 (Dec 15, 2010)

freemind said:


> Well, we all do things different from region to region.
> 
> NOBODY here stacks wood in their trucks or trailers. It is all thrown in. Not many people here have side boards either. I know I don't.
> 
> ...



Anyone selling wood is in a business and therefore a professional. Professionals use professional, accurate terms. I wonder what your states weights and measures has to say about it. Some states lay it out, others don't mention it.

Definition of a 'rick' is any pile of wood normally cut to the same lenght. Thus 3 sticks 16" long is a rick as is a pile 1 stick high and 2 miles long.

That your region doesn't use cords is probably because,as you say, there aren't many sellers and the sellers can get away with it.

Harry K


----------



## Uncle John (Dec 15, 2010)

Accordin to my redneck calculations if freemind was shorting anyone he was shorting himself


----------



## tomtrees58 (Dec 15, 2010)

rick (rk wtf you mean a cord or 1/2 cord


----------



## rwbinbc (Dec 15, 2010)

When You see it in the truck You sould be able to tell if your getting boned on the deal or You should be cutting Your own wood, I sell it by the rick and everyone I deal with buys it by the rick. I like it When You take wood to someone and they call You back 2-3 days later and state You shorted them. Then You waste gas to check it out that there about 3 days worth Short, When they was out of wood when You showed up. With the stove pipe smoking away......................


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 15, 2010)

Guido Salvage said:


> As I recall, your original post requested opinions and now you are angry that some have been posted? :bang: When you post in an open forum and ask for opinions you should be prepared for the responses. This example is just confirmation that paying after the job is completed is the only way to go.



:agree2::agree2:

Get rid of these vague, namby, girly, candy a$$ terms for firewood whatever the local -isms are. Want to sell honsestly, with no argueing, educate your customers to : 

1 CORD = 1 PILE/STACK/LOFT/KA-KA 4' X 4' X 8' . OR, TOTAL VOLUME = 128 CUBIC FEET PILED/STACKED ANY WAY.  
You need no more. 

Want to sell ricks, chopped liver, face cords, piled pickup load, or potatoes then accept the flak from those you sell to. Cheeeeese...............:yoyo:


----------



## indiansprings (Dec 15, 2010)

Terms defining wood are regional. Yes, I agree that a cord is a good legal definition. Most people in this area know what a cord of wood is but you never hear the term used. People buy wood by the rick in this area. The common definition is whatever length of wood the customer specifies x 4' high x 8' long.
Rick is a common term here in the heartland. It is obvious that in the NE that a cord is the standard term people use. I respect the fact that is the term and legal definition, but have the same respect for the terminology used in other parts of the country. There is absolutely no shortage of wood sellers in this part of the country, hell everyone with a saw seems to be selling wood this year.
One thing you never see here is wood sold by the truck load.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Dec 15, 2010)

ok let's shake thing up a full cord gos for$ 250.00 dunped:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## indiansprings (Dec 15, 2010)

You lucky dog, we only dream of that kind of price. I would hate to guess what it would be delivered up to a penthouse in the city with a fireplace. 
What do you do in those cases? Carry them up 15 pieces for a 100.00?


----------



## sunfish (Dec 15, 2010)

When I sold wood in north Florida, it was by the cord, or half cord. I could easily carry a 1/2 cord on a half ton short bed truck. Moved to Missouri 20 years ago and it's rick or rank here, which is a 4'x8' stack. I believe a rank is same as a rick, just cut longer, maybe wrong though, as I don't buy or sell wood here. Nobody uses the term cord around here.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Dec 15, 2010)

well here's 1 mile from my yard:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## leon (Dec 15, 2010)

*firewood bandits*



freemind said:


> Let me start off by saying, I cut my own firewood and sell a little on the side.
> 
> I built a new forced air woodburner (outside) to heat my house. Long of the short, I am burning three times the wood I have previously burned with the other add on furnace.
> 
> ...






About your outdoor furnace;

If you fill it half full or more with standard full fire brick-3 by 8 or for that matter but the 12 by 12 fire bricks from crappie keith you will cut way back on your wood burning needs as th efire brick becomes a heat sink and holds the heat genrated by the fire and aids in burning as it maintains a very hot fire with lttle smoke.

There is no need to remove the brick to do any cleaning as there is very little ash or creosote left in the furnace at he end of the season.



About wood volumes; a scale ticket with one ton load is your best sales method and legal in all fifty states for commerce where you can charge a per pound price and have repeat customers with no issues.

:chainsawguy:


----------



## jrjuday (Dec 15, 2010)

*fireewood*

Freemind, I sent you a PM.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Dec 15, 2010)

so a rick =a 4x8 =1/2 cord is $125.00 = $75.oo del and stk here


----------



## turnkey4099 (Dec 15, 2010)

indiansprings said:


> Terms defining wood are regional. Yes, I agree that a cord is a good legal definition. Most people in this area know what a cord of wood is but you never hear the term used. People buy wood by the rick in this area. The common definition is whatever length of wood the customer specifies x 4' high x 8' long.
> Rick is a common term here in the heartland. It is obvious that in the NE that a cord is the standard term people use. I respect the fact that is the term and legal definition, but have the same respect for the terminology used in other parts of the country. There is absolutely no shortage of wood sellers in this part of the country, hell everyone with a saw seems to be selling wood this year.
> One thing you never see here is wood sold by the truck load.



Since a "rick" has no legal definition, the buyer of one cannot complain that he was shorted. No court will accept his case.

I plain do not understand the stubborn retention of meaningless wood volume when there is a perfectly understandable, legal and long established one.

All those odd ball measures were mostly invented by scammers to cheat customers. 

When I sell it is cords or fractions there of. Some one wants to buy a "load", "Ric," "bucket" etc. the bill will read a cord or fraction there of. If everyone would get on board and do things in a business like manner those asinine regional measures would disappear.

Harry K


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Dec 15, 2010)

But, how much wood is in a chord, a core, a chored, a kwahrrd?????????


----------



## Wood Doctor (Dec 15, 2010)

Forget ricks of wood. Sell your firewood by the truckload and forget all other measures. Shucks, most people don't even know what a cord is, but they can see your truck when it arrives and they can tell when it's really full.

My truckloads are $100 and that's a also a number that's easy to remember. Pack the truck, throw on a few more logs for good measure, and let it go at that.


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 15, 2010)

In Kansas and Oklahoma a rick IS a legal definition. its case law and you can get your butt sued over shorting someone. the length isn't arguable, but 4x8 is. its square feet of face vs. volume.. we don't do volume cause we can't mulitiply 3 number together like you educated easterners (gag me!)


----------



## ks_osage_orange (Dec 15, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> In Kansas and Oklahoma a rick IS a legal definition. its case law and you can get your butt sued over shorting someone. the length isn't arguable, but 4x8 is. its square feet of face vs. volume.. we don't do volume cause we can't mulitiply 3 number together like you educated easterners (gag me!)



Not argueing if you are correct or not about legal definitions accepted in Kansas, and I've never bought or sold firewood (just cut and burn my own). But all of the wood burners I know use the term "cord" 4x4x8. I have heard the term "rick" and have even seen some sellers advertise rick in the paper or on CL. But cord is more commonly used at least in my experience in NE Kansas


----------



## tomtrees58 (Dec 16, 2010)

like you educated easterners (gag me!) wtf Toto or a full cord of wood = 400 pieces:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 16, 2010)

T² is now gaged. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Uncle John (Dec 16, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> In Kansas and Oklahoma a rick IS a legal definition. its case law and you can get your butt sued over shorting someone. the length isn't arguable, but 4x8 is. its square feet of face vs. volume.. we don't do volume cause we can't mulitiply 3 number together like you educated easterners (gag me!)



So, what is a rick?


----------



## branchbuzzer (Dec 16, 2010)

Kingfisher said:


> So, what is a rick?



A rick is a 4 foot high by 8 foot long stack of wooden nickels ( stacked edge to edge ). 

A stack 4 feet high by 8 feet long and 30" wide is not a rick if a piece falls off ( "losing face" )


----------



## komatsuvarna (Dec 16, 2010)

LMAO, some of you guys just aint right.

In my hillbilly part of Tennessee, its sold in ricks, or as wooddoctor said, by the truck load. Probably more sold by the truckload than any other. Kinda like, heres a truck load of wood, dont know exactly how much is on it, if you want it its yours, if not fine.....and they sell them like hot cakes.

A rick may not have a legal deffinition, but heres mine.
A rick= 4' high, 8' long, wood cut 12''....= 1/4 a cord.
A rick= 4' high, 8' long, wood cut 16''....= 1/3 a cord
A rick= 4' high, 8' long, wood cut 24''....= 1/2 a cord
A rick= 4' high, 8' long, wood cut 48''  = 1 full cord.
So a rick dont mean nothing unless you ask how long the wood is.


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 16, 2010)

komatsuvarna said:


> LMAO, some of you guys just aint right.
> 
> In my hillbilly part of Tennessee, its sold in ricks, or as wooddoctor said, by the truck load. Probably more sold by the truckload than any other. Kinda like, heres a truck load of wood, dont know exactly how much is on it, if you want it its yours, if not fine.....and they sell them like hot cakes.
> 
> ...



:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


----------



## komatsuvarna (Dec 16, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:



It does if you know basic math and how long the wood is. :monkey:


----------



## sunfish (Dec 16, 2010)

Does any of this really matter*???*


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 16, 2010)

a rick is 32 square feet of face times whatever length it is. If you are dumb enough to order wood and not be there when it gets delivered and you think you got ####ed you should of been a little smarter and been there. the "by the truckload" thing seems to work REALLY well around here too, but its already stacked in wood racks in my yard so they know what they are actually getting.


----------



## Ambull (Dec 16, 2010)

branchbuzzer said:


> A rick is a 4 foot high by 8 foot long stack of wooden nickels ( stacked edge to edge ).
> 
> A stack 4 feet high by 8 feet long and 30" wide is not a rick if a piece falls off ( "losing face" )



Best answer yet!!!


----------



## Ambull (Dec 16, 2010)

Here is another Rick:


----------



## jimbojango (Dec 16, 2010)

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! lmao  The Nature Boy. losing his mind in TNA ... what a sham


----------



## btsmith05 (Dec 16, 2010)

Here in OK, most everyone sells by a "rick" and a few actually advertise what dimensions they are selling. I delivered to a house once and they were surprised by how much wood was in one of my "ricks." I deliver enough to fill a 4' x 8' area and my pieces range from 14"-18". I always have a little extra just in case I stack it a little better at their place than I did at mine. It seemed that customer got a little more than they did in the past for a "rick" of firewood. I would have to agree that if the definition of the term "rick" is not disclosed up front, a lot can go wrong.


----------



## banshee67 (Dec 16, 2010)

im still confused.

the OP states his "ricks" that *he* sells are ~ 1/4 cord
(quote from first post: _"A cord goes for about 200 bucks in these parts, buying it by the truckload. (truckloads sell for 50-60 bucks"_ - to me that means he never has more than 1/4 cord thrown in his truck) (imagine making 4 trips to deliver a cord of wood!? lol) anyway..
then he implies he was expecting his 2 ricks from this vendor to be more than 1/2 cord total !?
(2 ricks @ 16" is a lot more than half cord total wood)
keep in mind he also mentioned the wood is longer than 16".. which to me implies these ricks he just bought, are larger than the ones he sells

you can easily get 1/2 cord in the back of a full size pickup, which is all he should have bene expecting for his 2 face cords total.

the OP himself has jumped back and fourth between legit terms like cord, and nonsense like rick. you need to pick one way and stick with it, be legit and use cord, or bounce back and fourth when its convenient like he is doing right now. 
*when he sells a rick, its 1/4 cord, when he buys he wants 1/3 of a cord from the sounds of it.*

if the op's ricks are 1/4 cords, then he shouldnt expect more than 1/4 cords from someone when buying..
he should have 2 ricks cut @ 12" lengths , if anything.. then the delivery would be on par with he himself sells.


----------



## branchbuzzer (Dec 16, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> In our area there HAVE BEEN LEGAL CASES where people sold ricks of wood (and shorted) and got sued. The legal case was won by the people who were shorted because kansas does state that a rick is 4x8x24" and the people selling were selling 4x8x20".





jimbojango said:


> In Kansas and Oklahoma a rick IS a legal definition. its case law and you can get your butt sued over shorting someone. the length isn't arguable, but 4x8 is.





jimbojango said:


> a rick is 32 square feet of face times whatever length it is.



I think I understand now, thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 16, 2010)

Yes, it is clear......I can see the light.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## branchbuzzer (Dec 16, 2010)

All Rick-itiness aside, to me this is the issue...



Guido Salvage said:


> The time to question what you are getting for your money is not after the sale has been consummated and the seller is far down the road. I would never buy something that I (and the seller) did not have an agreement on.





Guido Salvage said:


> This example is just confirmation that paying after the job is completed is the only way to go.






logbutcher said:


> Whether or not you got a bad deal is up to you and the seller.............the stack is either what you paid for, or not. No arguments, no fights with your wife.



and I'm gonna add one more:

I still haven't heard what the seller's response to the disagreement was. Don't expect AS to be judge, jury, and guillotine ( pardon my French ) when we're only getting one side of the story. For all I know the "other half" of the wood was coming the next morning. If you have a problem, you try to settle it between yourselves first.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 1, 2016)

So, I can sell my firewood for $120 a pickup truckload or I can sell it for $60 a rick.

Who is going to pay for my time on the phone explaining to the customer what a rick is? Not to mention they may feel stupid for not knowing what a rick is and never call me again.


----------



## Jhenderson (Aug 1, 2016)

freemind said:


> Let me start off by saying, I cut my own firewood and sell a little on the side.
> 
> I built a new forced air woodburner (outside) to heat my house. Long of the short, I am burning three times the wood I have previously burned with the other add on furnace.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jhenderson (Aug 1, 2016)

If you buy cut and split by the rick, how do you measure tree length ?


----------



## farmer steve (Aug 1, 2016)

Jhenderson said:


> If you buy cut and split by the rick, how do you measure tree length ?


a tree tape measure like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Lufkin-120TP...1470097954&sr=8-10&keywords=tree+tape+measure


----------



## rarefish383 (Aug 1, 2016)

Wood Doctor, you posted on this thread in December of 2010. Why did you bring it back up in the middle of the Summer of 2016? I hope you didn't fall asleep and just wake back up! Just joking you know. But, dang that was a long nap, Joe.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 2, 2016)

I wish it was still summer. Leaves are falling off the trees and it's been cold enough to fire up the wood stove a few times. And I've been busier than a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest with getting wood orders delivered. Rolling into my busy season though summer stayed quite busy as well.

Anyhow, I stack the wood in my trucks. It allows me to remove all the scraps, bark chucks, rotten pieces, resplit anything that's too big, also is an accurate measurement, and I can hold more in the trucks. Some of my deliveries are 150-200 miles each way so it really matters then. Have delivered a few loads to the middle of the Denali "highway". It's in the middle of nowhere! and highway... I've been on logging roads that are nicer!


----------



## GilksTreeFelling (Aug 2, 2016)

i dont sell much firewood just a few cords here and there *10-20* to suplement the budget. but here its by the cord, the truck load 1/2ton truck, or bundle. i sell cords. how i measure is stack it all up on pallets 4ft wide *16" cuts* 4ft high*from the top surface of the pallet* 8ft long. when someone buys a cord they come here pay me load it from the pallet already stacked and away they go. they get to see that its a full cord stacked before they load it and i dont have to worry bout them being unhappy. most of the time i dont have it stacked more then a day or two before its bought . as for ricks well never heard of them before i got to AS. but from the sounds of it the OP got qorked over with this whole "rick" business


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 2, 2016)

rarefish383 said:


> Wood Doctor, you posted on this thread in December of 2010. Why did you bring it back up in the middle of the Summer of 2016? I hope you didn't fall asleep and just wake back up! Just joking you know. But, dang that was a long nap, Joe.


Gadfry, I guess I did bring it back up again. Somebody liked my 2010 post and I thought the thread was rejuvenated. However, it is interesting. My truckload price has gone up by $20 in five years. Most of my customers still think I charge too little. They might be right because I stocked out last year and had to turn business away. I can usually pack in an average of 400 logs in a load, packed almost cab high with the side rails holding it. I also do the same thing that ValleyFirewood does -- make sure the truck bed is bare before loading.

Occasionally I get a request for a half load. For that amount I take the rails off and charge $65. My rail assembly is very easy to remove. At this point, I'm stocking up almost twice as much as last year. Most of the rounds were cut in the early spring, and they split beautifully now. The sun and wind should do the rest of the drying by fall.


----------



## husqvarna257 (Aug 2, 2016)

Here is the state of Massachusetts take on it

Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term ''firewood'' shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms ''cord'', ''face cord'', ''pile'', ''truckload'' or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term ''kindling wood'' shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.

Yep I love this state


----------



## TimberWolf530 (Aug 2, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Here is the state of Massachusetts take on it
> 
> Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term ''firewood'' shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms ''cord'', ''face cord'', ''pile'', ''truckload'' or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term ''kindling wood'' shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.
> 
> Yep I love this state


Well, here in Indianer, we see wood, or sometimes would, advertised by the cord, chord, coard, truckload, bucket full, pile, rick, ric, rik, and many other terms made up on the spot by the seller. Of course it's all "seasoned". Most of it for at least a day or two. It's common knowledge that a rick is 1/3 cord, but if the seller doesn't know what a cord is, that doesn't mean much.


----------



## rarefish383 (Aug 2, 2016)

Wood Doctor said:


> Gadfry, I guess I did bring it back up again. Somebody liked my 2010 post and I thought the thread was rejuvenated



LOL. Well, at least I know you woke up! I don't sell any wood anymore, maybe 3 or 4 cords to old friends. I used to bring home a cord every time I went to my farm in WV. But, I haven't kept up with the regulations on transporting wood across the line into MD, so I just stopped bringing it back. Well, I'll check this thread in 2022 and see if it's still rock'n, or rick'n, or rack'n, or whatever, Joe.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 2, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Here is the state of Massachusetts take on it
> 
> Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term ''firewood'' shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms ''cord'', ''face cord'', ''pile'', ''truckload'' or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term ''kindling wood'' shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.
> 
> Yep I love this state



Huh, odd they don't consider cord to be a legal measurement. I wonder if it's because of the confusion with face cord?

My brother who lives in Maine says everything in his area is sold by weight not volume. Generally 5-6000lbs a cord, but it depends on species.


----------



## blades (Aug 2, 2016)

Can you imagine getting say 5000 lbs of Willow or something else as light . Who's scales do they use?


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 2, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Here is the state of Massachusetts take on it
> 
> Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term ''firewood'' shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms ''cord'', ''face cord'', ''pile'', ''truckload'' or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term ''kindling wood'' shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.
> 
> Yep I love this state


I usually always get asked how big my truckload is. I then tell them I pack in 82 cubic feet or about 2/3 cord, so it takes 1.5 truckloads to equal a full cord. Section 298 in MA has to be one of the most descriptive and detailed passages that I have seen in years. Thanks for posting that. I'll make sure that all my logs are over 8" in length. 

I've often offered to bring in a box or two of kindling, but nobody seems to want it. I cannot believe that they even defined that in the same paragraph.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 2, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Here is the state of Massachusetts take on it
> 
> Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term ''firewood'' shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms ''cord'', ''face cord'', ''pile'', ''truckload'' or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term ''kindling wood'' shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.
> 
> Yep I love this state



That _*has*_ to one of the dumbest things ever put into law if true. Do you have a cite? I dtried google and couldn't come up with the state law. .


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 2, 2016)

Todd Williams said:


> Well, here in Indianer, we see wood, or sometimes would, advertised by the cord, chord, coard, truckload, bucket full, pile, rick, ric, rik, and many other terms made up on the spot by the seller. Of course it's all "seasoned". Most of it for at least a day or two. Officially, a rick is 1/3 cord, but if the seller doesn't know what a cord is, that doesn't mean much.



Officially? It is actually in the regs that way?


----------



## TimberWolf530 (Aug 2, 2016)

turnkey4099 said:


> Officially? It is actually in the regs that way?


Regs???????? No. How do I know that the animal beef comes from is a cow? How do I know the sun rises in the East and sets in the West? The point is, I don't know how I know it, I just do. It's just common knowledge. I have amended my comment from "officially" to "It's common knowledge that". There, happy now?


----------



## 95custmz (Aug 2, 2016)

Todd Williams said:


> Well, here in Indianer, we see wood, or sometimes would, advertised by the cord, chord, coard, truckload, bucket full, pile, rick, ric, rik, and many other terms made up on the spot by the seller. Of course it's all "seasoned". Most of it for at least a day or two. It's common knowledge that a rick is 1/3 cord, but if the seller doesn't know what a cord is, that doesn't mean much.


 I agree. Being a hoosier, myself, it is understood that a rick is 4'x8'x16" and multiply that by 3 and guess what you have? A full cord.


----------



## blades (Aug 2, 2016)

Ah but you forget the new order when 1 + 1= 3 but only on the 3rd Sunday of a month with four Sundays that the 13th falls on monday of the previous month. There that settles that.


----------



## farmer steve (Aug 2, 2016)

blades said:


> Ah but you forget the new order when 1 + 1= 3 but only on the 3rd Sunday of a month with four Sundays that the 13th falls on monday of the previous month. There that settles that.


yes but what about when it's a leap year?


----------



## farmer steve (Aug 2, 2016)

where's @Whitespider to settle this once and for all? (probably getting new bias tires mounted on his wood truck)


----------



## Erik B (Aug 2, 2016)

farmer steve said:


> yes but what about when it's a leap year?


I thought that only happens on days where there is a leap second


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 3, 2016)

Todd Williams said:


> Regs???????? No. How do I know that the animal beef comes from is a cow? How do I know the sun rises in the East and sets in the West? The point is, I don't know how I know it, I just do. It's just common knowledge. I have amended my comment from "officially" to "It's common knowledge that". There, happy now?



My apologies, I tied it to the wrong post. Should have been to the Massachusettes thing.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 3, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Here is the state of Massachusetts take on it
> 
> Section 298. Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term ''firewood'' shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms ''cord'', ''face cord'', ''pile'', ''truckload'' or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term ''kindling wood'' shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.
> 
> Yep I love this state



PLease give us a cite to that. Google doesn't come up with it. I call a "spoof" due to the ban of "cord" and especially that last sentence.


----------



## rarefish383 (Aug 3, 2016)

*About Buying Firewood*
We get many calls from people either with questions about buying their seasons supply of firewood or what they can do after recently purchasing wood they were less than happy with. There are a few things you should know about wood and the laws regarding selling firewood that will help you make the best decision when making your firewood purchase.
*Selecting a Firewood Dealer*
When selecting a firewood dealer you should take several things into consideration.

*Are They Licensed?*

If the dealer is in the firewood business, they shall have a Forest Products Operators License issued by the Maryland Department of Natural Resources - Forest Service. The Maryland Forest Service can provide you with a list of licensed operators in your area. If you have found a potential dealer, you can easily check if they are properly licensed by calling *(410) 260-8531* or by using this link: FPO, select "firewood" and your county.
*Get References!*

If you haven't worked with a particular dealer before, they should be willing to offer you references of customers they have delivered wood to before. If they're not willing to offer you a list of customers, those customers may not be happy ones.
*Problems with a Firewood Dealer*

Maryland law states that firewood must be sold by a cord or a fraction of a cord. This is enforced by the Maryland Department of Agriculture's - Weights and Measures section. If you have a concern about the volume of wood you have paid for you should contact them at (410) 841-5790. Note: they only handle matters where the volume of wood is in dispute.
*Know What You Are Buying*


Note, they are only concerned about the measurement, cord or fraction of a cord. If it's too green or too rotten to burn, that's on you for not researching your dealer, Joe.


----------



## rarefish383 (Aug 3, 2016)

The above was from Maryland.gov, DNR, Joe.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 3, 2016)

farmer steve said:


> *where's* @Whitespider *to settle this once and for all?*


My neighbor's name is Rick.
*


----------



## husqvarna257 (Aug 3, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Huh, odd they don't consider cord to be a legal measurement. I wonder if it's because of the confusion with face cord?
> 
> My brother who lives in Maine says everything in his area is sold by weight not volume. Generally 5-6000lbs a cord, but it depends on species.



Man I would hate to buy green oak like that. Saw an interesting ad on Maine craigslist 

Semi Seasoned 6 month cut/split and Seasoned 10 month cut/split
All wood is premium hardwood; mostly Oak and Maple.

Processed, TUMBLED, and dried on pavement; so free of all MUD and DIRT.
Then the wood is TUMBLED AGAIN prior to loading into truck (new this year.)

Cords are delivered as 196 cubic feet, not 128. All major credit cards accepted. Bulk discounts available. We are a family operated but professional firewood company. Delivery Fees may apply based on location. We can deliver up to 4 cord in one delivery. I wonder why 196 cubic feet and what is up with this new trend of debarked tumbled wood?










Wood Doctor said:


> I usually always get asked how big my truckload is. I then tell them I pack in 82 cubic feet or about 2/3 cord, so it takes 1.5 truckloads to equal a full cord. Section 298 in MA has to be one of the most descriptive and detailed passages that I have seen in years. Thanks for posting that. I'll make sure that all my logs are over 8" in length.
> 
> I've often offered to bring in a box or two of kindling, but nobody seems to want it. I cannot believe that they even defined that in the same paragraph.



I should tell the company that sold me four cords of firewood ends that they are in violation of the law after all I had some 3 foot wide stump ends that were less than eight inches thick.



turnkey4099 said:


> That _*has*_ to one of the dumbest things ever put into law if true. Do you have a cite? I dtried google and couldn't come up with the state law. .



https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXV/Chapter94/Section298



turnkey4099 said:


> PLease give us a cite to that. Google doesn't come up with it. I call a "spoof" due to the ban of "cord" and especially that last sentence.



https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXV/Chapter94/Section298 Or you can Google state of Massachusetts cordwood. Remember one simple fact is is the job of the commonwealth of Massachusetts to make the simle things complicated and pass laws to back it up


----------



## muddstopper (Aug 3, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> (new this year.)
> 
> 
> I wonder why 196 cubic feet and what is up with this new trend of debarked tumbled wood?



196 cuft of thrown wood, not stacked is considered to b the same a 128cuft of stacked. My guess is they are dumping enough wood in the truck to equal 196 cuft to save time on stacking the wood. As for the debarked tumbled wood, it sure would cut down on the mess and if I was doing it, all the bark would be going into my compost pile to be composed and sold. Over 70% of all nutrients contained in a tree would be in the first 2-3 cm of the outer layer of the tree. This would be the bark and Cambium layers as well as all small dia twiggs and leaf'. Look up ramail wood chips for more info.


----------



## blades (Aug 3, 2016)

farmer steve said:


> yes but what about when it's a leap year?


Then its a month with 5 Sundays


----------



## blades (Aug 3, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Man I would hate to buy green oak like that. Saw an interesting ad on Maine craigslist
> 
> Semi Seasoned 6 month cut/split and Seasoned 10 month cut/split
> All wood is premium hardwood; mostly Oak and Maple.
> ...


----------



## blades (Aug 3, 2016)

But, But, that is the main purporse of government- Least you forget " Hi, I am from the Government and here to help"


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 3, 2016)

Quite a setup! That's about $300-400k of iron just in that pic!
Paving an acre or two.... around here that'd be a $150-200k paving job and would be destroyed in a few years by running heavy equipment on it (its soft)

It sounds like it's loose wood, so 196 cu ft is about a cord. I guess with a FEL it can be packed in reasonably well vs it coming off a conveyor.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 3, 2016)

Thanks for the cite to the Massachusetts ?law?. All one can do is marvel at the stupidity.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 3, 2016)

One thing I have discovered is that if I load my truck packed cab high with rounds cut to length and ready to split, the splits from those same rounds will equal about 100 cu ft when stacked. So, I can never get all of those splits back into the same truck. My truck also tends to moan and groan more when hauling a packed load of rounds cut to length than it does when hauling a packed load of splits.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 3, 2016)

I guess it depends on who is stacking. The couple times I've taken a stack of rounds, split it and restated I had at best about the same amount, though usually less. The splits can be stacked tighter.


----------



## cuinrearview (Aug 3, 2016)

turnkey4099 said:


> That _*has*_ to one of the dumbest things ever put into law if true. Do you have a cite? I dtried google and couldn't come up with the state law. .



The commoners can't possibly be smart enough to trade in firewood. The next step will be a state ran firewood distribution system.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 3, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I guess it depends on who is stacking. The couple times I've taken a stack of rounds, split it and restated I had at best about the same amount, though usually less. The splits can be stacked tighter.


Try this. Take a few big carrots that just fit into a mason jar and cut them into thirds. Now slice them into strips that you would add to a salad. I doubt that you can get them back into that mason jar. Potatoes yield the same result.

I've also done his with blocks of wood. The smaller pieces never fit back in because of the air space that they require. I once split a large round into 45 splits. Two of them would have yielded 90 splits. In no way could those 90 splits ever have displaced the same or less volume as the two big rounds and whatever air was between them.


----------



## muddstopper (Aug 3, 2016)

If your buying firewood, you better be able to do a little math. folks around here will come in with a long wheelbase ton pickup, wood heaped above the sides of the truck bed and claim they have a full cord. Aint going to happen, no way, no how. Measure that 8ft bed length and width, and then divide it into 128 and then you will know just how high that wood has to be stacked to equal a cord. That height is about even with the top of the back glass of the cab, with side boards, and if its thrown into the bed of the truck and not stacked, it had better be above the top of the cab. Rounding up a truck bed of wood wont come out to a full cord, no matter how well its stacked in the truck bed.


----------



## ropensaddle (Aug 3, 2016)

freemind said:


> Well, we all do things different from region to region.
> 
> NOBODY here stacks wood in their trucks or trailers. It is all thrown in. Not many people here have side boards either. I know I don't.
> 
> ...


I barely get a cord on my one ton dump thrown on, its mounded to the point of looking like a stick could fall off. The only legal sale of firewood is cord or fraction of a cord and its federal law jfyi.

Note: bed is tad over 9 feet by 6.5 feet with just over 3 feet sides!


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 4, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I guess it depends on who is stacking. The couple times I've taken a stack of rounds, split it and restated I had at best about the same amount, though usually less. The splits can be stacked tighter.



You are fooling yourself then. Everytime you split something it takes up more space after splitting. There used to be a sticky with experiments that proved it. General rule of thumb is a given pile will expand about 10% after splitting.

Slice a carrot into rounds, pack single layrer into a box top, dump, split and try to put all of them back in. Can't be done. You can run that experiment yourself while watching TV.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 4, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> If your buying firewood, you better be able to do a little math. folks around here will come in with a long wheelbase ton pickup, wood heaped above the sides of the truck bed and claim they have a full cord. Aint going to happen, no way, no how. Measure that 8ft bed length and width, and then divide it into 128 and then you will know just how high that wood has to be stacked to equal a cord. That height is about even with the top of the back glass of the cab, with side boards, and if its thrown into the bed of the truck and not stacked, it had better be above the top of the cab. Rounding up a truck bed of wood wont come out to a full cord, no matter how well its stacked in the truck bed.



Yep. I deliver about 3/4 cord or a bit more with racks even with top of cab. Stack the first rick across the front of the bed and a rick across the back of the bed (makes a tailgate), rest thrown in. dthat is on an F150 but hauling well cured willow. Even with dry willow that is an overload.


----------



## moondoggie (Aug 4, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I guess it depends on who is stacking. The couple times I've taken a stack of rounds, split it and restated I had at best about the same amount, though usually less. The splits can be stacked tighter.


Are you kidding? ? I cut a red oak log yesterday. 4 bucked 16" long pieces/massive chunks equaled 2/3 of a cord stacked.


----------



## NSMaple1 (Aug 4, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I guess it depends on who is stacking. The couple times I've taken a stack of rounds, split it and restated I had at best about the same amount, though usually less. The splits can be stacked tighter.



Can't stack wood much tighter, than how it's stacked in solid form, before it's split. Every split you make = more airspace.


----------



## husqvarna257 (Aug 4, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Quite a setup! That's about $300-400k of iron just in that pic!
> Paving an acre or two.... around here that'd be a $150-200k paving job and would be destroyed in a few years by running heavy equipment on it (its soft)
> 
> It sounds like it's loose wood, so 196 cu ft is about a cord. I guess with a FEL it can be packed in reasonably well vs it coming off a conveyor.



Nice set up indeed gotta wonder how many cord an hour they can move, ValleyFirewood how many cord an hour can you process. We bought 3 cord last year that was debarked and tumbled. It was our 1st year with an OWB and I wasn't comfortable we had enough wood. I used my tractor to scoop up the wood he dumped off, had some piles of bark chaff in it but over all it was good. My wife has claimed the 1.5 cords left as hers for the wood stove, she loves the no bark, bug part.


----------



## rarefish383 (Aug 4, 2016)

We always had F600 dump trucks, and I marked the sides (Beds were 12' longX6' high, chipper boxes) with different color paint for 16", 20", and 24", to make stacking easier. I had a friend that sold a lot of firewood out of his F250. He cut his wood at just under 24". He made two four foot tall boards to go against the cab and tailgate. The space between the wheel wells is 4'. He made two rows 4" high front to back. You could put a tape on the stack while sitting on the truck, 4' high, 4' wide, and 8' long. No questions. Looked kind of silly going down the road, no one else stacked their wood like he did, Joe.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 4, 2016)

husqvarna257 said:


> Nice set up indeed gotta wonder how many cord an hour they can move, ValleyFirewood how many cord an hour can you process. We bought 3 cord last year that was debarked and tumbled. It was our 1st year with an OWB and I wasn't comfortable we had enough wood. I used my tractor to scoop up the wood he dumped off, had some piles of bark chaff in it but over all it was good. My wife has claimed the 1.5 cords left as hers for the wood stove, she loves the no bark, bug part.



If I have someone stacking in the truck, with me feeding and running the processor I can do about a cord an hour. If I have another person feeding me logs while I run the processor and fairly straight logs, I can do about 2 cords an hr.

By myself, it's 2+ hrs a cord. I have to stop cutting after a bit, hop in the truck, stack, cut more, go get logs, stack, cut, etc.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 4, 2016)

NSMaple1 said:


> Can't stack wood much tighter, than how it's stacked in solid form, before it's split. Every split you make = more airspace.



The rounds don't stack tight, large air spaces.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 4, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> The rounds don't stack tight, large air spaces.



Niether do the splits and you wind up with a lot of little spaces. Those spaces add up to more than what you started with. Try that simple experiment I posted above and you find out. I saw that 'expansion bit in a book back around 1960 and called BS. Then I tried a few tests - they were right.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 4, 2016)

turnkey4099 said:


> Niether do the splits and you wind up with a lot of little spaces. Those spaces add up to more than what you started with. Try that simple experiment I posted above and you find out. I saw that 'expansion bit in a book back around 1960 and called BS. Then I tried a few tests - they were right.


I think the guy that modeled this was CurlyCherry. I haven't seen him post here for awhile. Today I had about a 2/3 load full of oak rounds cut to 18" lengths. Average diameter was 16". I could barely fit the splits back into the truck, four rows. Had the truck been packed full of rounds to start with, at least 60 splits would not have fit and maybe 100.

BTW, it's too dang hot and humid here to process wood these days. I need my head examined.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 4, 2016)

Wood Doctor said:


> I think the guy that modeled this was CurlyCherry. I haven't seen him post here for awhile. Today I had about a 2/3 load full of oak rounds cut to 18" lengths. Average diameter was 16". I could barely fit the splits back into the truck, four rows. Had the truck been packed full of rounds to start with, at least 60 splits would not have fit and maybe 100.
> 
> BTW, it's too dang hot and humid here to process wood these days. I need my head examined.



Been in the 50s here. Rain for 3 weeks so far.


----------



## muddstopper (Aug 4, 2016)

turnkey4099 said:


> Yep. I deliver about 3/4 cord or a bit more with racks even with top of cab. Stack the first rick across the front of the bed and a rick across the back of the bed (makes a tailgate), rest thrown in. dthat is on an F150 but hauling well cured willow. Even with dry willow that is an overload.


 
My dump trailer is 6x10 and has 2ft sideboards. neatly stacked to the top of the sides would be 120cuft. round it up in the middle and I can get a cord on it pretty easy. I have yet to see any pickup with a larger bed size than my dump trailer and the sides of a pickup are usually only 16-18inches high. I have a buddy that sells wood out of a pickup. I have bought a few loads from him from time to time. Usually will buy a load when he has some that has been on the back of his truck for a day or two and he needs to get rid of it= buy at big discount. He used to tell me he had a cord on his truck, until I made him stack a load in my shed and then pulled the tape measure out. About 2/3 of a cord for a rounded 8ft truck bed is about right. Firewood around here goes for about $200 cord delivered. My buddy sells by the truck load for $100 a load, so even tho he isnt hauling a cord, he isnt beating any one either.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 4, 2016)

Yeah a long bed pickup is about 1/2 cord, short bed 1/3.


----------



## moondoggie (Aug 4, 2016)

My 96 tacoma holds 1/3 of a cord stacked and rounded up 4" or so in the middle.


----------



## moondoggie (Aug 4, 2016)

Short wheel base holds 1/2 cord stacked long wheel base 2/3 of a cord rounded a little.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Aug 4, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Yeah a long bed pickup is about 1/2 cord, short bed 1/3.


Unless the truck has side rails. I discovered that 18 years ago and that's when I built my own rails with 4/4 ash that maximizes the load volume. The heavy duty suspension, 4WD, and Monroe shocks can handle any firewood that I load on the truck. Considering the oddball places that I have to deliver it, that's a plus. You would not believe the steep slope of some driveways and roads that I have to negotiate with a full load on board.


----------



## moondoggie (Aug 4, 2016)

Wood Doctor said:


> Unless the truck has side rails. I discovered that 18 years ago and that's when I built my own rails with 4/4 ash that maximizes the load volume. The heavy duty suspension, 4WD, and Monroe shocks can handle any firewood that I load on the truck. Considering the oddball places that I have to deliver it, that's a plus. You would not believe the steep slope of some driveways and roads that I have to negotiate with a full load on board.


Lots of crazy driveways here in the mointains for sure. 

I didn't know there were any hills In Nebraska lol!


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 5, 2016)

Yeah same here. I have to throw on tire chains fairly often, even in the summer.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 5, 2016)

Wood Doctor said:


> I think the guy that modeled this was CurlyCherry. I haven't seen him post here for awhile. Today I had about a 2/3 load full of oak rounds cut to 18" lengths. Average diameter was 16". I could barely fit the splits back into the truck, four rows. Had the truck been packed full of rounds to start with, at least 60 splits would not have fit and maybe 100.
> 
> BTW, it's too dang hot and humid here to process wood these days. I need my head examined.



Yep on the heat. In the 90s tomorrow but I have a tree down in a farmers field I need to get at least the top out of there. May be a short work peeriod, start early and quit when I am soaked with sweat.


----------

