# alder prices in PNW



## ArtB (Aug 31, 2017)

Have not tried to track prices, but must be getting pretty high? There are a bunch of folks here from SW WA who likely keep track of these markets.

Have 32 acres near Mossyrock that was originally logged circa 1900, selectively logged for telephone poles in 1972, nothing since except for firewood for personal use. 

Seems lately have been getting an inquiry every other week about selling timber . Not much DF over 18" DBH, but lots of 15" dbh alder, most pretty straight. No need to sell anything, but curious as to the market.

Thinking alder prices must be pretty high. Neighbor there told me 5 years ago he was getting $1100 MBF for veneer quality logs. 
Being an old Midwest boy, always considered alder just a firewood tree, not any more, eh?


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## northmanlogging (Aug 31, 2017)

Alder goes fer about the same as doug fir plus or minus a bit, contact nw hardwoods or washingtin alder... same company..

Or in other words 550-700 per 1k bf but its lighter so you can get a whole mess of it on a truck


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## Skeans (Sep 2, 2017)

I'd get a hold of Cascade Hardwoods they pay the same for short logs as long logs and typically pay better from what I've seen of the two price sheets. My last sheets was upper 800's from memory for 12"+ tops 16-40 ft same price.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 2, 2017)

$850 fer 12" and up


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## RandyMac (Sep 2, 2017)

Alder must be worth hauling, plenty of truck loads locally.


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## bitzer (Sep 2, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> $850 fer 12" and up


Is that for number 1s?


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## northmanlogging (Sep 2, 2017)

They don't really have a grade at NW hardwoods, if its over 12" and longer then 16' without a bunch of stain thats what they pay.

Only problem is finding enough alder to send them full loads on the regular, stuff is easy to work up and not to difficult to fall, so its easy money.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Sep 2, 2017)

We ran into a patch of it this summer, I brought a bit home for the stove. Was crooked and small, 8" dbh at the most.

I'm told it burns about the same as poplar, dunno?


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## chucker (Sep 2, 2017)

it burns better than poplar/aspen.. burns and coals up more like maple and birch, but with out the creosote build up from poplar and unseasoned birch. green birch is a NO no .....


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## northmanlogging (Sep 3, 2017)

Alder burns good not as long as maple but better then fir,


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## bitzer (Sep 3, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> They don't really have a grade at NW hardwoods, if its over 12" and longer then 16' without a bunch of stain thats what they pay.
> 
> Only problem is finding enough alder to send them full loads on the regular, stuff is easy to work up and not to difficult to fall, so its easy money.



That's pretty good pay if it doesn't matter for knots or sweep or cat faces.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 4, 2017)

They deduct for imperfections, but its still pretty good pay. Knots don't seem to matter much as long as they aren't real big or prevalent. Cat faces, Rot, and Stain ya try to buck out if you can, but its hard to do on a 32' log, so they work around em same as we would if we could cut 8's or 10's

Sweep in alder is just a fact of life, rare to find a straight one, possible yes... likely not so much

They are a little more picky with the maple, but not as much, the exporters are extra picky on the hardwoods, so it really pays to send a load of hardwood the extra 30 mi north. 

And some folks would say that us PNW goons can't cut hardwood... blah blah blah...


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## Skeans (Sep 4, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> They deduct for imperfections, but its still pretty good pay. Knots don't seem to matter much as long as they aren't real big or prevalent. Cat faces, Rot, and Stain ya try to buck out if you can, but its hard to do on a 32' log, so they work around em same as we would if we could cut 8's or 10's
> 
> Sweep in alder is just a fact of life, rare to find a straight one, possible yes... likely not so much
> 
> ...


Good reason to look at Cascade there's no tier system on the pay.

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## 1270d (Sep 4, 2017)

Could you get more if you bucked for grade like we middle merica folks? On good logs lots of times I butt off an inch at a time (or half inch even) to clear up a log or trim out a knot or mineral.

Although knotty alder is the thing isn't it?


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## Skeans (Sep 4, 2017)

1270d said:


> Could you get more if you bucked for grade like we middle merica folks? On good logs lots of times I butt off an inch at a time (or half inch even) to clear up a log or trim out a knot or mineral.
> 
> Although knotty alder is the thing isn't it?


That's what we do is buck for grade as well as better scale just for size.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 4, 2017)

1270d said:


> Could you get more if you bucked for grade like we middle merica folks? On good logs lots of times I butt off an inch at a time (or half inch even) to clear up a log or trim out a knot or mineral.
> 
> Although knotty alder is the thing isn't it?


ya do what ya can, need enough long logs to for the bunks, so ya pick yer battles, short butt cut here, vs short tops, or a few that only make 16's, just as long as you have the majority up in the 32'-36' range it makes a good pay day. 
The alder out here is fairly knot free, couple of bigger limbs here and there, if its really limby its likely not very tall, and would likely barely make a decent 20' log, the rest being waste. They like to grow in the understory, or as a pioneer tree, where things is thick, then the weak die off after 10-20 years or so, leaving the better trees to go on for a few more, then they all stop and start dying off to make room for the hemlock and ceder coming up from the shade... unless there is a stand of fir and they squeeze into any light they can get, snaking through to find every glimmer of hope they can... makes a thinning job kinda interesting...

there is a bunch on the current project, that is close enough I can see the NW yard on a mostly clear day... just gotta talk the owner out of em.


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## Skeans (Sep 4, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> ya do what ya can, need enough long logs to for the bunks, so ya pick yer battles, short butt cut here, vs short tops, or a few that only make 16's, just as long as you have the majority up in the 32'-36' range it makes a good pay day.
> The alder out here is fairly knot free, couple of bigger limbs here and there, if its really limby its likely not very tall, and would likely barely make a decent 20' log, the rest being waste. They like to grow in the understory, or as a pioneer tree, where things is thick, then the weak die off after 10-20 years or so, leaving the better trees to go on for a few more, then they all stop and start dying off to make room for the hemlock and ceder coming up from the shade... unless there is a stand of fir and they squeeze into any light they can get, snaking through to find every glimmer of hope they can... makes a thinning job kinda interesting...
> 
> there is a bunch on the current project, that is close enough I can see the NW yard on a mostly clear day... just gotta talk the owner out of em.


Is NW hardwoods still running the tiers for lengths?

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## 1270d (Sep 4, 2017)

Skeans said:


> Is NW hardwoods still running the tiers for lengths?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Skeans did you guys decide on a machine? Great lakes expo is this Friday if you want something looked at


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## Skeans (Sep 4, 2017)

1270d said:


> Skeans did you guys decide on a machine? Great lakes expo is this Friday if you want something looked at


Have not since we aren't working for Weyerhauser anymore our contract is still open if they decide to let more work be done. At this point it'll be something used and probably a touch bigger around a 425 leveler or a 725 leveler with a Skidmore or Logmax 7000 fixed head, either would probably work but I'm thinking the logmax would be better since we're clear cutting more now.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 5, 2017)

Skeans said:


> Is NW hardwoods still running the tiers for lengths?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


nah its all based on diameter, bigger pays better etc, they take anything 16' to 40' (though if you can find decent 40' alder logs...)

the "soft" wood folks have the tier thing going strong though, both lengths and diameters, and grades on top of all that.


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## Skeans (Sep 5, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> nah its all based on diameter, bigger pays better etc, they take anything 16' to 40' (though if you can find decent 40' alder logs...)
> 
> the "soft" wood folks have the tier thing going strong though, both lengths and diameters, and grades on top of all that.


The last time I did an alder job that went to NW down in Longview they had tier for all the same as softwoods but they were also owned by Weyco then as well.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 5, 2017)

think they are still owned by weyco, but after 09 or so they re configured everything. They had a mill in Arlington where the buyer would try and move his own logger friends in on jobs small fry guys where trying to cut... guys like me... then they attempted to out buy another local mill by paying twice the amount, got up to something ridiculous like 1800 per 1k. Then they shut down, place has since been mostly leveled. The other mill, Smith St, in Everett ended up surviving that mess, but got sold, the new owner decided that he never needed to sign checks, unless you came in and beat on the door and hollered and screamed... then whined the whole time that he couldn't get any logs... They shut down too. I mean the guy wasn't even paying the trucks.


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## r black (Sep 5, 2017)

alder ,when I used to live there went for $80 a cord split and stacked and I helped load it that was in 1970's in the lake Stevens area ....looks like the cost of living went up ?


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## northmanlogging (Sep 5, 2017)

r black said:


> alder ,when I used to live there went for $80 a cord split and stacked and I helped load it that was in 1970's in the lake Stevens area ....looks like the cost of living went up ?



Funny im sittin in lk stevens right now... tweekers and hillbillies have kept the fire wood price around 200-250 fer awhile now, got outa that racket


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## Skeans (Sep 5, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> think they are still owned by weyco, but after 09 or so they re configured everything. They had a mill in Arlington where the buyer would try and move his own logger friends in on jobs small fry guys where trying to cut... guys like me... then they attempted to out buy another local mill by paying twice the amount, got up to something ridiculous like 1800 per 1k. Then they shut down, place has since been mostly leveled. The other mill, Smith St, in Everett ended up surviving that mess, but got sold, the new owner decided that he never needed to sign checks, unless you came in and beat on the door and hollered and screamed... then whined the whole time that he couldn't get any logs... They shut down too. I mean the guy wasn't even paying the trucks.


Did some checking another company has bought them out. To your other part was the mill getting full? I know down here if you're not accredited or a certified logger you'll be first to be cut off as well as first to see a price down heck there's a few price sheets for a lot of mills.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 5, 2017)

Nah only one mill ever has space ussues around here and they stiill usuallt manage to keep payin.

The one that didn't wasn't paying anyone creditors, loggers, truckers, parts people, maybe even employees.

Damned shame since they was a pretty good outfit before the new guy took over...


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## madhatte (Sep 6, 2017)

Seems to me alder peaked hereabouts around 2011. It's been less flakey since than it was before but those prices haven't returned yet.


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## Skeans (Sep 6, 2017)

madhatte said:


> Seems to me alder peaked hereabouts around 2011. It's been less flakey since than it was before but those prices haven't returned yet.


The 1200 and 1500 prices were nice that was the first time I've seen them pay more for short then long lengths.

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## madhatte (Sep 6, 2017)

Yeah, exactly -- my boss was a hurry to capitalize on that and had me lay out a sale, so I found a half-million board-feet or so just in time for the ice storm of 2012 to bust out all the tops and reduce it to a red-stained mess that we ended up selling by the ton. Oh, well, at least we have it replanted now.


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## Skeans (Sep 6, 2017)

madhatte said:


> Yeah, exactly -- my boss was a hurry to capitalize on that and had me lay out a sale, so I found a half-million board-feet or so just in time for the ice storm of 2012 to bust out all the tops and reduce it to a red-stained mess that we ended up selling by the ton. Oh, well, at least we have it replanted now.


We did as well, what all does Washington Loggers Accreditation entail?

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## madhatte (Sep 6, 2017)

Honestly I am not sure as I work for the DOD and so we're insulated from a lot of state regs; however, I reckon Northy might have a few ideas.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 6, 2017)

Skeans said:


> We did as well, what all does Washington Loggers Accreditation entail?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



There is a website that explains it better then me loggers.com

But its basically 40hrs of forestry related schooling, first aid/cpr card, then like 16 or 20 hrs of forestry related stuff every year, things like wetlands mitigation erosion control etc etc etc. 

I'm not accredited if that means anything, costs more then its worth.


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## Skeans (Sep 6, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> There is a website that explains it better then me loggers.com
> 
> But its basically 40hrs of forestry related schooling, first aid/cpr card, then like 16 or 20 hrs of forestry related stuff every year, things like wetlands mitigation erosion control etc etc etc.
> 
> I'm not accredited if that means anything, costs more then its worth.


I wouldn't say that it does open up jobs to even small woodlands and it does make a difference to a mill some places here won't buy from you unless they're completely out.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 7, 2017)

Meh, I've been at it long enough that the mills I use know me well enough, the ones I don't use regularly are simply out of range to bother with, or they don't care either.

Sierra Pacific, Hampton, and a couple of others, can get picky but you just have to call ahead and let em know what yer up to.

After this year, and the amount of wood that has been stuffed through all the mills that are left, Every one of em still has room in their yard, unless they are smallish and had a breakdown or too... (Fritch... Beck...)

And they are crying for more, if it gets to the point of mills not accepting wood, then its probably a sign that the prices are, or are about to, drop out of the bottom.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 7, 2017)

One of the last big log mills,as in big logs for big timbers, is about to lease out half of its log yard because they simply can't keep it full.


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## Trx250r180 (Sep 7, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> Alder burns good not as long as maple but better then fir,


The alder i burn in the shop does not seem to make as good of heat as fir for me ,maybe it is too green still ?


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## northmanlogging (Sep 7, 2017)

Fir is better,

Alder arguably burns a wee bit longer but less heat, its just so easy to process though


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## Skeans (Sep 7, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> Fir is better,
> 
> Alder arguably burns a wee bit longer but less heat, its just so easy to process though


If you want something hot burn some Vine Maple just make sure there's not too much of it I've heard of guys burning stoves down with it.

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## ArtB (Sep 13, 2017)

I have used vine maple for ax and peavey handles, works rather well for the peavey handles, not quite as good as hickory for axe handles thoough.

3 grandsons are 14-19 YO now, they STILL love to climb about 20 feet up and 'spring' to the ground on a vine maple stem. 2 of them are over 6 ft, they need to find a fairly stout stem now.


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## Skeans (Sep 13, 2017)

ArtB said:


> I have used vine maple for ax and peavey handles, works rather well for the peavey handles, not quite as good as hickory for axe handles thoough.
> 
> 3 grandsons are 14-19 YO now, they STILL love to climb about 20 feet up and 'spring' to the ground on a vine maple stem. 2 of them are over 6 ft, they need to find a fairly stout stem now.


They work great for laying a big fir you need to save out as well.

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## northmanlogging (Sep 13, 2017)

I hates them viney maples... hatesess emss

all they do is get in the way smack her hat off, break windows, lights, bars, chains, get stuck in the essavator bucket, get stuck in the skidder blade, center pivot, fairlead, sliders... cage, where they smack yer hat off break windows, lights chins noses...

****in hate em


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## ChoppyChoppy (Sep 14, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> Fir is better,
> 
> Alder arguably burns a wee bit longer but less heat, its just so easy to process though



The alder we have here is a pain to process. Splits fine, but it's small and crooked. Same with willow. Usually we don't mess with it, or if it's on a land clearing, just rip it out with the excavator and put it in the slash pile to be burned.

Only reason I had some was we buy logs from a contractor that decks anything about 4" and bigger. On jobs we do, we don't normally bother with anything under about 8-10" dbh.
Works out well though. His guys usually do real nice of limbing and decking and putting a landing where the truck can actually fit.

Get many people calling a year wanting to sell logs, most of the time the deck is a freaking mess, the wood is junk/they want top dollar for it, or it's in a spot that the truck can't get to.


ANYHOW, it's interesting how a tree can be considered valuable in one area and junk in another!


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## Skeans (Sep 14, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> The alder we have here is a pain to process. Splits fine, but it's small and crooked. Same with willow. Usually we don't mess with it, or if it's on a land clearing, just rip it out with the excavator and put it in the slash pile to be burned.
> 
> Only reason I had some was we buy logs from a contractor that decks anything about 4" and bigger. On jobs we do, we don't normally bother with anything under about 8-10" dbh.
> Works out well though. His guys usually do real nice of limbing and decking and putting a landing where the truck can actually fit.
> ...


They use to be considered junk here till they started making paper out of them then came the furniture.

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