# Adjustable Cinch Carabiner



## AviD (Sep 9, 2003)

Hey all, I currently have a lineman style climbing belt that has two D loops attached to the waist of the belt. The climbing rope is attached to one D loop and the other goes through this Cinch Type Carabiner, but the Carabiner really isn't a Carabiner. 

Its more of a Threaded Hook with a Thumb "Button" where when you push it down the threaded line can be pulled through the Hook and when you let go it Cinches down on it. You can then Hook up to the other D ring to secure the rope and pull the rope through to take up the slack and tighten things up.

I am looking for another one of these Cinch type Hooks, but can't seem to find one anywhere.

Basically what I want to do, or actually what I do when climbing a tree is the following:

1) I push the button down and pull enough rope out to fit the circumference of the tree.

2) I throw the rope and hook around the tree and secure it to the D ring

3) Tight up the slack line so I can lean back comfortably and work on the tree.

I figure there is either a name for these "Hooks" that I just can't seem to find

OR

There is a much better way to secure yourself when you are up in a tree for hands free operation.

Something worth noting is I need to be highly mobile. I may be deep in the woods somewhere so I don't want to carry alot with me. The "Hook" is the most ideal, because it attaches (is threaded) with the line and there it stays. Very light weight, strong, and easy to use (1 hand operation).


Any thoughts, recommendations, and/or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Let me know if any additional clarification is needed.

Thanks!


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## jblimbwalker (Sep 9, 2003)

Not sure of the hook you speak of, but click on the link, top of page and check out the Microcender, Grillion, etc. Get one of these and you'll be looking back at that there hook and laughing.


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## AviD (Sep 9, 2003)

Interesting...that does look pretty neat, but overkill for my purposes.

The price alone is disturbing! 

I can get a section of rope (6 feet or so) for about $3 and throw this "Hook" on...probably all for under $30.

What is the Adapter the Grillion has on it with the lanyard? That thing that locks when weight is applied and allows the line to pass through when the weight is taken off?

I figure I can achieve that weight load by simply leaning back and then coming forward to take it off.

The nature of that "adapter" is what Im looking for. Something I can trim slack line in with and then lock it down so I can work. When I need to move, unlock it...let some slack out...and move on.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 9, 2003)

I have a Grillon, and it can let out rope or pull slack when loaded.

I'm using a Distal hitch right now, using a quick link, 5/16 stable braid and light pulley. total cost around 18 bucks.

It all depends on how much one spends on the pulley.

Search this forum, there are many posts on the distal and swabish (very similar knots) hitches.


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## AviD (Sep 9, 2003)

No, the application is for hunting...so I am using what they call screw in steps.

Interesting question comes to mind, since many of you are very knowledgeable on trees.

Do you think screw in steps permanently damage trees? I have been using them for years, and often the same tree(s) year after year and have never seen a problem. The holes just seem to refill in after a relatively short time. Mostly climbing pitch pines oaks, cedars, and occassionally gum trees.

Well anyway, thats how I climb. I get up there with the steps and then like to secure my rope around the tree, tighten it down, and then maneuver to hang my treestands...which requires both hands.

I've thought of using pole climbers, but alot of guys have recommended not using them due primary to safety and oddly enough damage to the trees. I've seen some cedars really torn apart from the pole climbers...

Let me know what you think and if you have any recommendations.


Thanks!


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 9, 2003)

Brian, 

You're excercising extreme self discipline, I could hear your steaming all the way up here in MN 

AviD,

Are you trolling or serious? Smells trollish to me.

You won't get any justification for poking holes in trees from people on this forum. Be ready to get ripped. 

You wound the tree every time you poke a hole through the bark. The reason it doesn't seem to "hurt" the tree is because the tree grows a new layer of tissue and attempts to close over the hole you poked the year before. The tree would/wood be better off if you left the screw-ins inplace instead of making new holes every year.

In MN more people die from tree climbing accidents during hunting season than any on ground accidents. Does that tell you something?

Tom


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## Stumper (Sep 10, 2003)

In the interest of the trees switch to strap on steps. Climb with the belt on and rope around the tree. (yes you have to mess with it moving the rope at every step but if you slip it could save your life). You can (should?) replace your 'hook' thing with a locking carabiner and a Distel hitch and a brass swivel snap for a slack tender. The best way to figure out how would be to do a search on this site for those terms. you may have questions-feel free to ask-but it will be easier to explain if you do some reading and see some of the posted pictures.
Best wishes


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## murphy4trees (Sep 10, 2003)

Hey Rocky,
You don't piss me off.... It's just the hacks that don't like you calling a spade a spade... I half-smile everytime you go on a little rant... I AM either getting used to your atttitude or its been improving quite a bit lately.... So you GO..... AS should give you some official recognition as our Cyber-bouncer... I personally AM thankful and you might save a life or two alon the way... we'll never know for sure.


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## ORclimber (Sep 10, 2003)

How about something a little more user friendly. http://futureforestry.com/3rd level/Product Pages/ascender.html


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## NeTree (Sep 10, 2003)

Frankly, I wouldn't trust a $3 rope with MY life. I presume you're looking at stuff rated for your body weight. But remember... in a fall, your rope is subjected to MANY TIMES your own weight. That's why arborist climbing lined are rated in excess of 5000 pounds. Unless it's JPS... his (and mine) have to be higher.


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## rbtree (Sep 10, 2003)

Errrr, Rocky:.....
http://futureforestry.com/2nd level/order/price_list.html


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## geofore (Sep 10, 2003)

*deer hunt*

Short lengths of 2x4 ~24" two holes drilled in each end. A few lenghts of 6mm rope, thread the rope through the holes on one end of the 2x4 so the ends are the same length. Put the rope around the tree and thread the ends through the other end of the 2x4 pull tight and tie a knot to hold the 2x4 against the tree, the first rung in your ladder. Repeat until the ladder reaches the height you want securing yourself in place as you accend with your linemans equipment. When you're done hunting cut the ropes on the 2x4's with your penknife or untie the ropes as you climb down. You don't mark up the tree or leave holes in it. You cut the ropes if you don't wish to save them for next year or don't want the liability of someone else getting hurt climbing your laddder. It saves the tree some injury, no steel in the tree for a timber cutter to hit 40 years down the road after the tree has grown over the spikes you left in it. I've seen guys use a heavy clothes line for rope to do this as there are four points to pick up the load. I'd recommend the 6mm arbo stuff, it is safer. It carries easily in a back pack, simple to set up and take down and does not harm the tree.
You can always learn to footlock.


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## AviD (Sep 10, 2003)

Some interesting responses.

First, I am not trying to stir the pot...this is how myself and many other hunters climb trees.

In regards to safety, I am surprised at some of the answers...

1) Leave the step in the tree (for the sake of the tree). How about the sake of my life and safety when climbing? Leaving them in the tree, as the tree grows/expands will stress the step and potentially damage the step. As such when I climb it sometime in the future, there is a chance it could break due to that stress and I go tumbling

2) http://futureforestry.com/3rd lev...s/ascender.html
LOL @ the pricelist
Keep in mind I have dozens of treestand locations, am I going to buy that for each one? Haul that in and out? Perhaps you were kidding around

3) Strap around steps are probably one of the most dangerous steps there are to use...and probably responsible for many climbing accidents for deer hunters. (unless you guys use another kind of strap around step than is offered in hunting catalogs).

Again, not stirring the pot, but obviously we have very different perceptions. Mine is geared towards my own well being and safety, whereas yours (and perhaps understandably so due to experience and profession) is geared towards the "safety/well-being" of the tree and compromising personal safety (aka willing to fall with an alternate solution) and depend on your climbing gear to compensate.

At least that's how I'm perceiving it, could very well be off. Regardless, I do appreciate the feedback and suggestions. Not trying to cause any riffles here, I think this thread has become pretty interesting and informative.

One other thing about the $3 rope...keep in mind it is only a 6 foot section....and the rope is rated well over my weight range...rougly in the area you are recommending. Although I've recently learned they do not recommend rock climbing rope, that is what it is. So far, the rope has worked very well and hasn't show any signs of wear after much use.

I'll begin to do some research on a "carabiner and a Distel hitch and a brass swivel snap for a slack tender" suggested below as well. Perhaps that will be a good alternative.

Thanks again for the help and stimulating conversation!


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## Frans (Sep 10, 2003)

Avid
You mentioned having a lineman's climbing belt.
These belts come with large "D" rings located at your hips.
All you need to buy is a wire core flip line. this is attached to your saddle with a knot. I call this a "cats paw" knot but i've heard it called other names as well.
This knot is adjustable so you can take up slack or let slack out. It is easy, minimal equipment to carry in and out, one piece of gear, and light if you buy a 1/2" cable core flip line.
As for entering the tree here you have another whole can of worms.
Basiclly you are asking this forum on advice to make the process easier. I did not read in your posts that you were/are unwilling to learn new tricks for entering the tree.

TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD
SHAME ON YOU! 

Here is a guy asking for advice and your pompus a$$ are too caught up with your primadonna selves to give a guy some good advice.
Well Avid, here is some advice. I hope it makes your hunting easier and safer and this advice will also benifit the tree which is what I am all about.
To enter a tree without damaging it and to make it fairly painless to you is a tall order.
You have experiance in "walking" up trees. That is to say you climb up using steps attaached or spikes or whatever. The methods I advise (and others shuould as well) all use rope climbing.
That means using a rope as the main support to get up in the tree.
Throw a rope over a branch and pull your self up it.
We arborists use all kinds of stuff to help us in this. for example: ascenders, false crotches, decenders, etc, etc.
It is not easy but if not harming the tree is your goal than the motivation is there.
To begin why dont you buy a climbing rope. Learn to tie a climbing knot (blakes is good) and learn to body thrust.
So here is your equipment list.
1. steel core flip line 10'
2. 1/2" climbing rope 60'-120' (longer is heavier)
3. Cambium saver. Leather is good and easy to set up check out www.newtribe.com for ideas.
Thats it for equipment! after the money settles you will be out maybe 200. $
Oh and by the way 
CLIMBING IS DANGEROUS AND SHOULD NEVER BE DONE WITHOUT PROPER, PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTION.
and never by oneself
Frans


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## murphy4trees (Sep 10, 2003)

One question could be how far up a tree do you need to ascend... or how high are your tree stands?
There's a little more to it than just throwing a rope over the lowest limb... maybe next time you see a tree "climbing" crew at work you could stop and watch and even ask a few questions if you get the chance.
There's a lot you can learn here and on the web and it'll be easier to understand if you've seen it in action..


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## AviD (Sep 10, 2003)

Fran, thanks for the reply.

What you've described sounds ideal in terms of extending off the lineman's belt. I have been researching quite a bit and thinking about alternatives...your's sounds like the best of all worlds. I'll take a look at that for sure!

Now...in regards to my previous post...I thought quite a bit on my way to work and here at work regarding alternative methods to climbing trees.

Some considerations when climbing during hunting are:

1) I WILL definitely be alone when climbing

2) It will be dark when climbing, i.e. 4:00AM

3) There are various temperature ranges you hunt in, therefore your clothing (bulk) will vary greatly.

4) Due to all day vigils, the amount of equipment you bring with you varies greatly, and must be considered. Perhaps using a pulley system to get gear up to the stand would be a good approach

5) I've read about using such means you described to climb a tree, but what if you don't have a large branch to secure to? Do you just tie around the tree where you want to place the stand?

6) Not all hunters (just as not all people) treat others or their equipment with due respect. As such, I have to consider "tampering" with anything I leave behind. i.e. someone may cut my rope to prevent me from climbing (yes there are some evil SOBs out there). How would I manage setting up a new rope at 4:00AM?

7) I will not be climbing with clothing/footwear suited for climbing with the methods suggested. I will be wearing quite bulky and heavy boots, which is a challenge in itself.

8) There are MANY stand locations, of which are set up well prior to actually hunting them...and will ALL require the same equipment/setup. So, cost becomes a factor. Treesteps are fairly inexpensive and if stolen can be replaced. On the other hand, if I start putting out expensive climbing gear, chances are that it WILL be stolen and very expensive to replace.


Not to mention, this is all new to me. Certainly all things I could learn, but also adds to the risk factor considering I am alone. Plus, I am still trying to determine the best way to achieve all the things I can do now (from a safe climbing perspective and from a hunting perspective) with an alternative method.

Fortunately I have great folks such as yourselves that are quite knowledgeable on the subject of tree climbing, hence why I came here originally.

Nevertheless, currently with a lineman's belt, I can climb steps secured to the tree and maintaining 3 points of contact at all times during climbing...in case I do fall I have reasonable security (either already holding onto something and/or the belt). It is arguable whether it is better to rely on the steps as more security when climbing, or more things that can wrong when climbing.

In additional, all that is mentioned above is JUST related to climbing with SOME hunting considerations involved. There is alot more to consider when hunting...paramount is Scent and Noise Factors...but SAFETY is ALWAYS first.

The methods I use are common practice between hunters, and while someone did mention earlier many hunters fall each year...there are many factors that contribute to this.

Some don't use safety belts at all, some don't check their equipment thoroughly, some fall asleep on stand, etc etc.

Anyway, any additional information and/or recommendations on alternative, practical methods to achieve my safe climbing needs with the above considerations would be greatly appreciated.

I realize I may have opened a can of worms in several fronts (hunting and tree damage via tree steps). I do not want to argue ethics on hunting here, but am very willing and open to new approaches in climbing trees...of which all of your experience is a great value.

Thanks again and hope to hear from you guys some more!


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## AviD (Sep 10, 2003)

murphy4trees:

Good question.

Treestand height varies. I tend to hunt somewhat high compared to most hunters (but not very high for most of you climbers).

I will set a stand anywhere between 15 and 45 feet, with an average of 25-30 feet.

Also keep in mind, there is often not a branch on a given tree that is acceptable (IMO) for a safe tie. Unless I'm tying to a big oak, I would be leary. Alot of the trees hunted are relatively small in diameter (12-20"), whereas others (few) are much larger.

Treestand placement is a complex process and often times you don't have much to choose from in the area you want to place a stand. Have to go with what you can get, which is another reason treesteps are a benefit...being so versatile.


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## NeTree (Sep 10, 2003)

Avid,
the problem with "rock climbing" rope is that it doesn't lend itself very well to knot-tying, and more importantly, to hitches.

Glad you understand the importance of over-rated lines and equipment. You may never need fall protection, but it's always good to know it's there if gravity bites.


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## AviD (Sep 10, 2003)

Well said and very much understood. I wouldn't try anything unless I was confident and knowledgeable in what I was doing.

Everything I've ever done in hunting has been tested at ground level well before it was ever done up in a tree.

I am not really trying to learn how to climb from this website, I completely understand that is best learned from instruction (like most expertises). What I was originally looking for was what I already have, but want another of...just can't find it.

This thread has since turned into an interesting one with many issues discussed. Fortunately I have gained enough info regarding my original question as well as quite a bit more info on climbing, techniques, equipment, etc.

I definitely like the ideas mentioned and feel it may be worth learning how to do from a professional, experienced climber. But before such time, I'd like to learn as much as I can so I am at least somewhat primed and knowledgeable before getting "trained/taught" on how to climb with the methodologies suggested on here.

Thanks again for all the info...definitely an interesting discussion and learning experience!


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## NickfromWI (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Avid,
> the problem with "rock climbing" rope is that it doesn't lend itself very well to knot-tying, and more importantly, to hitches.
> *



I know this is off the topic, but could you expand on this. I disagree.

love
nick


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 10, 2003)

Maybe is missed it, but you should buy a copy of The Tree Climber's Companion before you buy your hunting license. This has become the de facto guide to basic tree climbing. Sherrill sells it. The best investment you will make.

Stop and consider how much you have invested in hunting gear. Then realize that safety gear should be a priority too. Just because your rope hasn't broken or worn doesn't mean it is the proper rope. You have to consider safety factors. Working on a 1:1 SF isn't safe. No margin for error. You need at least a 5:1 and better closer to a 10:1 margin.

If you buy some black or camo parachute cord you get set it in the tree and leave it for the next time you will install your rope. If someone tampers with it, you're not out much money.

Tom


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## Frans (Sep 10, 2003)

Thanks Rocky
No I did not mean to condem all the posters.
The way I see it is their is "us" & "them"
Us being Arborists dedicated to preserving trees and Them being the entire population of folks who have brought our trade down to the level of hacks.
I see this as a golden opportunity to educate someone outside our field in the importance of tree preservation.
I agree and the original poster should take note: Tree climbing is indeed one of the most dangerous activities to do.
I dont think this is a good place to try to teach climbing however this guy is climbing already and would more benifit from some good advice than non-constructive criticism.
So my advice is to read the prior posts who suggested books, web-sites and visiting tree crews.
Being informed is the first step.
who knows when you are sitting around the campfire cooking up Bambi the other hunters may ask: Hey, that was a pretty slick way to get up in the tree. How'ed you do that?
Frans


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## Stumper (Sep 10, 2003)

AviD, Any chance you could post a picture of your little gizmo you were trying to find?


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## NeTree (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by NickfromWI _
> *I know this is off the topic, but could you expand on this. I disagree.
> 
> love
> nick *




Nick,

I have yet to handle any such rope that had the "hand" of our arborist lines. If you've done much rock climbing, you know that such ropes are typically used with mechanical devices, not bowlines and blake's.


AvID, 

By all means stick around... you may just move from recreational hunting climber to an interest in our profession! Learning never stops.


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## ORclimber (Sep 11, 2003)

Avid,

My origional suggestion has merit for your application. Here's another idea though.

Climbing at night is difficult at best. The only times I've done it had someone on the ground lighting the way. You might consider night vision goggles. If I was going to do what you intend, would set up cheap 1/2" climbing ropes during the day and get familar with the climbs while it's light out. Using a bigshot at night would surly scare away any deer nearby. If the sound of the throwball breaking branches and thumping the ground didn't scare the deer away, then your curses after the throwball got stuck would. Would use single rope tie in, so the rope is choked around a limb above where your going to sit with running bowline. If someone was going to mess with your rope the worst they would likely do is cut it as high as they could reach from the ground. I'd use 2 handled ascenders with foot loops backed up by a microascender for the ascent. Don't think I'd monkeyfiddle with my pantin in the dark. After the season was over you could go retrieve your ropes for next year.

I have an uncle who swears you need 3 guns to hunt deer. A rifle. A shotgun for the drive in and out, with steel balls for shot cause they won't ruin the meat. And a high end air rifle for upland game birds(and squirrels) cause it won't scare the deer away.


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## DadF (Sep 11, 2003)

Avid-being a hunter and an arborist I feel I must say something. First I do most of my hunting the "old fashioned" way- on the ground. There are so many different scent reduction opportunities that I have no problem with scent being an issue(had a pack of coyote within several feet of me and they had no clue I was there until I tried to smokepole one). 
Second there are also many newer climbing style tree stands that I am starting to see that look like the damage to trees would be kept to an absolute minimum- I know I've seen some in a Cabelas posting. If you use a climbing stand I would still want a tie in point above where I was climbing to and have a rope/harness backup system in place to CYA.
Third is that climbing a tree is dangerous enough in good conditions in "working" clothes, with the proper equipment and with another person for safety. I still hunt because I don't have anyone else that goes with me when I hunt thus I would be breaking one of the first rules of never climbing alone. 
Maybe it's time to review your hunting abilities and try going to the "next level" which would be staying on the ground and really learn how to hunt.


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## AviD (Sep 11, 2003)

Tom Dunlap:

I'll definitely look into the book. I always enjoy expanding my knowledge, and that sounds like an excellent read for many reasons.


Frans:

"Us being Arborists dedicated to preserving trees and Them being the entire population of folks who have brought our trade down to the level of hacks.
I see this as a golden opportunity to educate someone outside our field in the importance of tree preservation."

That is exactly how I see it, and very well said on your part. Fact of the matter is, most hunters (like myself) are NOT arborists. We do not know the "trade", nor know how to learn and/or apply its principles. I'm attempting to extend myself and increase my knowledge on the subject of tree climbing, and fortunately (at least I hope) some here have recognized that. You seem to be one of them! 


Stumper:

I'll try to post pics tonight of the current adjustable rope grab I use now with my lineman style belt.


ORclimber:

Your suggestions are definitely appreciated, but are a learned skill. I have some work to do before I can reach that level of climbing. Hopefully I can locate a class around here where I can learn better ways to climb! 


DadF:

I don't want to argue (on an Arborist site) about the benefits to treestand hunting versus ground hunting...I will simply say that there are many approaches to hunting and some approaches do not lend themselves to certain areas.

For example, I do have a climber and I do use a harness (whether in a climber or fixed position stand), but not all trees are suitable for a climber. I can either cut 100 branches so I can use the climber, or I can climb around the branches with tree steps and set a fixed position stand. Which would you recommend as an Arborist? I doubt it would be to cut 100 branches.

In terms of scent reduction and the impact of scent on your hunting experience, it is all relative to WHERE you hunt. I hunt highly pressured public lands where the deer are VERY wary and very aware of human presence. Hunting on the ground in such instances is a huge disadvantage for two reasons:

1) Your scent is inline with the deer, at the same level, whereas in a tree your scent stream is often over the deer's nose.

2) Your field of view is severely limited compared to being elevated.


Lastly, I do hunt from the ground on occassion and I have taken several deer from the ground and from stalking. In my opinion, to be a successful hunter...you must be versatile. As mentioned above, different areas lend themselves to different hunting approaches. To be successful you often implement the most opportune methodology.

So to define staying on the ground as "really learning how to hunt" is ignorant, short sighted, speculative, and completely opinion driven. Granted there is no arguing it is perhaps the safest means of hunting, it is definitely not the most effective one.

In fact, as a hunter...you should know that the majority of big game animals are taken from an elevated locale. This could be hunting on the ground on a ridgeside, or over a bluff, but mostly it is from treestands. (Review the P&Y results and see the hunting methods used to harvest most of the big game animals in there). In addition, being that elevation positions are a distinct advantage while hunting, and if you are hunting relatively flat land (New Jersey)...you only suitable option to achieve that advantage is a treestand.

Nevertheless, to each their own, but you cannot sway my opinion and own experiences regarding the best method for harvesting game. In short, there is no SINGLE way that is the "true way to hunt"

Note also that "old fashioned" and ground hunting is a contradiction. In review of history, as far back as the American Indians, many of them hunted from trees for the exact same reason we do today. They recognized it has its advantages, just as myself and many other hunters do today.



Now back to tree climbing!


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## DadF (Sep 11, 2003)

Avid- I will agree with you completely. Guess I'm spoiled by having plenty of private property right outside my backdoor that I've been running around around since I was able to get out of the house on my own. With minimal hunting pressure and complete knowledge of every nook and cranny I just haven't needed to hunt from a stand. I also have a climber and used it when I was still bow hunting(have been too busy for that for at least 10 years). 

Tom suggestion on the Tree Climbers Companion is excellent. I carry one in the truck with all the time.

Frans comments about "you" becoming one of "us" may be a lot closer than you realize. You already have a rudimentary knowledge of trees(mast and food sources) and realize that trees (at least now)do not heal from wounds but merely surround and scab over. That is way more than most people and a lot of tree "hackers" know.

Personally I think that a face to face meeting would be interesting and we would both come away from it knowing more than what we did before. Unfortunately I have never been to NJ and don't foresee any plans to for in the future-UNLESS you have turkeys over there. I don't have turkeys outside my backdoor and am always looking for an excuse to go somewhere to hunt them!!!

I would also like to see the cinching carabiner you have been using.


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

Here are some pics of the "adjustable rope grab" I am currently using. It came with the belt, of which I believe a company called Tree Hopper used to make these.


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

Back...


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

Side...


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

Closeup of the side...


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

Keep in mind, this sucker is about 10 years old now...so it's been through alot. Outside of the paint, I don't see any wear...and definitely nothing that concerns me...although I suspect many here will look at that contraption and do two things:

1) Laugh
2) Wonder what the hell I'm thinking using it


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

I find it to be quite useful, and VERY easy to use while up in a tree. Compared to the "high tech" equipment used by alot of the professionals though...I'd think it is pretty elementary in design but quite fundamental.

Just wish I could find another one...somewhere. Best thing for me to use at this juncture, because I am used to using one and can climb well with it.


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 14, 2003)

So...the rope must have a snap on the other end that attaches to your saddle. Then this adjuster stays attached to your saddle.

To let out slack the pointed lever on the lower right is pushed in to move the cam off the rope.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I'm understanding the action, if it had a double-auto-locking mechanism, it could be useful. It would still have to pass breaking strength.

How do you open the gate on the snap?

I doubt that you'll find a new tool like that. 

The closest you'll find is a Micro-Cender. You can attach that with a Maillon Rapide. Don't go cheap and save a nickel by buying a screw link made in the Pacific rim. False economy when your life is at stake.

I don't think that I've seen that unit in Gary Storrick's collection:

http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml


Tom


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## AviD (Sep 14, 2003)

The rope is attached to a D loop on the belt via a figured 8 knot.

To let slack out, you just push the thumb button down and pull. Pressing the thumb button releases the grab and lets the rope flow through the adapter with some resistance. When releasing your thumb, it grabs the rope and it doesn't budge.

To trim slack, you just hook in to the other D loop and pull. The way the rope is situated in the adapter allows you to pull trim but not pull out the other way.

Pretty ingenious "rope grab/trim" device...but I haven't seen it anywhere else...ever.

I don't even know who made the belt I have anymore...been so long. I do believe the company I mentioned earlier, Tree Hopper, makes a belt that is very similar...but it looks like they went out of business or revamping their website.


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## AviD (Sep 15, 2003)

LOL how do you like this "hunter" climbing belt??!?!

http://www.cyberbuilder.net/Merchan...rks.com&Product_Code=SA-400&Category_Code=TCA

That nylon braided line looks promising...


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## AviD (Sep 15, 2003)

I actually found that "hook" on another safety belt offered by a company called North Starr Treestands:

http://northstarrtreestands.com/Safetystarr.html

I called and asked if I could buy one, and they said they don't have them as an accessory, I would have to buy the whole belt.
The hook is made overseas in Taiwan and can only be ordered in bulk.

The belt costs $31.

Not positive if it is exactly the same one that I have, but it looks awful darn close.

What do you guys think?

The guy I spoke to was pretty "interesting"...telling me it takes a "very special rope" to use with the hook. I don't know if he knows what he's talking about, but by the looks of their harness/belt and how the rope connects to it...I think I trust what I've been doing with D loops, carabiners, and a quality knot! 

I think I may just buy the belt to get the hook...what do you all think?


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## AviD (Sep 15, 2003)

Well, I am going based on the hook that comes with that belt is identical to the one I have now. If that is the case, I would be using a hook that has kept me safe for the last 10 years with ALOT of use.

I've posted pictures above of the one I've been using...which originally came with the belt I have. The only thing I've had to replace is the rope in that 10 year time frame.


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 15, 2003)

AviD,

Your logic is on the wrong track I think. Just because your system hasn't failed in ten years doesn't mean it is the best system to use. You came here to ask advice from people who make thier living climbing trees. Now you're going to ignore the advice and do what you want. That's fine, but it sure doesn't make sense. In one day, anyone on this forum spends more time on a rope than you probably will for a hunting season. I don't think that even one person endorsed the use of the camming device. Does that tell you anything?

If you're married, have your wife read through the thread and have her make the decision about using that device instead of a proper, accepted tool like the Microcender. Sure it costs more, but you're more likely to go home walking at the end of the day. 

I've never been in a life threatening car crash but I wear my seat belt all of the time. Have since my Dad took the '60 Plymouth to Monkey Wards and had belts installed for all of the passengers.

Tom


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## AviD (Sep 15, 2003)

Good points, and you are correct...you guys are the professionals. Thanks again for the feedback!


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## timberfell (Sep 15, 2003)

I think this topic is pretty well smothered for this forum.  

You should be able to find a online hunting site similar to this one. Maybe you could do a search and find some decent advice on SAFELY hanging treestands from other hunters. See what they are using for equipment.

Kurt


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## ramanujan (Sep 15, 2003)

a ropeman and locking biner would be lighter and of similar if not smaller size. total cost about 50$
also would function very much the same.





would recommend double autolocking carabiner rather than the screwlock carabiner pictured.


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 16, 2003)

Teh Ropeman is not a good choice for an adjuster. The teeth are too aggresive and will pick the rope in short order. Using a tool with a slotted cam like a Gibbs, Microcender or one of the ISC tools would be the best.

Tom


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## ramanujan (Sep 16, 2003)

Tom the original ropeman has a slotted cam. Still more agressive than most but it doesn't pick rope.


Oh, and what are the ISC tools?


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 16, 2003)

ISC makes some really nice gear:

http://iscwales.com/


The Ropeman is one tool that only works with, I think, 9-11 mm ropes and the biner cross section is critical. There are better tools available, why not use them?

Tom


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 16, 2003)

I think Canadian Arbo Supplies sells some of the stuff. If you want to get the gear, write to them and find out who a US distributor is.

You could also try:

http://froogle.google.com/


Yates sells some ISC gear, I'd bet they could get more. 

How do you think I found all of my connections and links? Rarely did I have someone do my homework for me. 

Tom


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## Stumper (Sep 21, 2003)

Avid, Thanks for posting the pictures. This thread has been pretty well hashed since I've been away but I'll add a musing or 2. The 'safety' gear sold to hunters (of which I am one) seems pretty cheesy to those of us that climb for our livlihood. I frankly don't know what standards (if any) exist for hunter's safety equipment. Some of what I've examined was rated for 2000 lbs-way below our standards. On the other hand,we use our gear day in and day out. We swing around on our ropes all day and run them through natural crotches under load (okay not everyone but many of us). Even if a hunter weighs 300 lbs a 2000lb rating allows a 6/1 plus safety margin-he isn't likely to break the rope/strap/fastener. What could easily occur instead would be a broken back from the dinky little belt if the fall involved more than a couple of feet.. 
Personally, I wouldn't opt for Avid's snap (which is an interesting bit of gear) or one of our fancy rope grabs/ascenders. I would choose a 'biner, swivel snap (as slack tender) and friction hitch. That is the cheapest arrangement. probably the lightest. and totally reliable-I'm familiar with it. Avid is familiar with his device and trusts it.-Since it has been around for several years and hasn't been sued out of existence it probably IS trustworthy for his application.:angel:


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