# Need help for correct grinder angles for stihl chains



## 4492011 (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi I am looking for the correct angles for sharpening stihl chains with oregon grinder. When I look at the stihl website and find the chart for their usg grinder I see that they are using a 40 degree head angle. I usually use a 60 degree head angle for most chains. I also see they are using a - + of 15 degrees for the table I would assume that I just use the tilt feature for that no problem I was wondering what others are using for the head angle? thanks


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## Philbert (Jan 2, 2009)

Depends on the chain. The info is usually on the paper insert that comes with packaged STIHL chains. The angles should be the same for any brand of grinder.

If the chain is fairly new, you can put it in the grinder and set it up to match the cutter angles. 60 degrees head tilt and 30 degrees vice angle works on a lot of chains.

Philbert


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## Lakeside53 (Jan 2, 2009)

The oregon head scale is inverted from the Stihl USG...


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## SWE#Kipp (Jan 2, 2009)

Here are something that might help you ,,,,
View attachment 85472


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## Philbert (Jan 2, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> The oregon head scale is inverted from the Stihl USG...



That's interesting. Thanks. 

Philbert


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## Lakeside53 (Jan 2, 2009)

So.. In oregon speak, using the stihl chart, that would be about 50 degrees.


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## 4492011 (Jan 2, 2009)

The chart is kinda confusing when looking at the part number for the grinding wheels the part number is the same for .325 pitch and 3/8 pitch which is normal but when you look at the next column there is a 2,4 for one and a 2,6 for the other what is the significance of those numbers? Also there is no difference between a full chisel and a semi chisel chain.


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## Philbert (Jan 2, 2009)

All of the different cutter angles and specifications can get confusing. 

In the Oregon guide they list 1. Depth-Gauge Setting, 2. Top-Plate Cutting Angle, 3. Side-Plate Cutting Angle, 4. Top-Plate Filing Angle, 5. File Guide Angle, along with file diameter and grinding wheel diameter for each chain! And that does not count the different grinder scales that Lakeside53 pointed out.

I made a cheat sheet of grinder head & vice angle, file & wheel size, and depth gauge setting for each chain I normally use. They are pretty close for me.

I once called Oregon technical support because they listed different angles for the same chain in 2 different Oregon guides – was told that the it was more important that the cutters are all filed/ground the same than it was that they were at a specific angle.

Philbert


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## briantutt (Nov 23, 2011)

*Stihl chain angles*

I am trying to figure out the correct angles for 3/8 Stihl Picco chain. The USG chart higher in this thread looks like pivot points are different than a "normal" grinder. Does anyone know what the correct angles are?


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## WidowMaker (Nov 23, 2011)

I grind everything at 60/30/0, sometime
60/30/10, not often though


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## briantutt (Nov 23, 2011)

WidowMaker said:


> I grind everything at 60/30/0, sometime
> 60/30/10, not often though



Well that certainly would make things more simple. I will try that on this chain.


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## PA Plumber (Nov 23, 2011)

WidowMaker said:


> I grind everything at 60/30/0, sometime
> 60/30/10, not often though



Yep, same here. 

Fiddled with the tilt settings at one time, but found it was more trouble than it was worth.

I use 60/30/0 for 3/8 regular and low pro, and the same for .325.

Haven't ground any .404 chain yet.


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## RES (Jan 12, 2012)

From the replies shown above, I would assume that the angles would be as follows for the new *Stihl Picco Super 3 saw chain (PS3)*

Wheel Head Tilt --- 50 degrees (90-50 = 40 degrees for Stihl USG)
Vice Angle --- 30 degrees
Vice Tilt --- + or - 15 degrees


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## Philbert (Jan 12, 2012)

RES said:


> From the replies shown above, I would assume that the angles would be as follows for the new *Stihl Picco Super 3 saw chain (PS3)*
> 
> Wheel Head Tilt --- 50 degrees (90-50 = 40 degrees for Stihl USG)
> Vice Angle --- 30 degrees
> Vice Tilt --- + or - 15 degrees



PS3 looks like a semi-skip tooth version of the PMC3 chain._(EDIT: Sorry, corrected this in post #16 - Philbert)_

I do not understand the STIHL USG grinder chart myself. However, 50 degrees seems awfully low. 60 is very common for many chains. 55 is not uncommon. 50?

My Oregon grinder has detents for the vice tilt. It allows -10, 0 , +10. I think that the 15 degrees in the USG chart refers to something else.

If you open a new package of a pre-made loop of PS3 it should have the correct angles, or you can mount it in your grinder and try to copy them.

Philbert


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## RES (Jan 12, 2012)

Philbert said:


> PS3 looks like a semi-skip tooth version of the PMC3 chain.
> 
> I do not understand the STIHL USG grinder chart myself. However, 50 degrees seems awfully low. 60 is very common for many chains. 55 is not uncommon. 50?
> 
> ...



Did you mean semi-chisel? Is there any other chart besides the Stihl USG chart that addresses Stihl chain? I was able to verify the 30 degree angle, but it is difficult to verify the others?


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## Philbert (Jan 12, 2012)

RES said:


> Did you mean semi-chisel? Is there any other chart besides the Stihl USG chart that addresses Stihl chain? I was able to verify the 30 degree angle, but it is difficult to verify the others?




'Full comp' chain has a 2 drive links between each cutter. Skip tooth chain has 3 drive links between each cutter. Semi-skip alternates between 2 drive links between each cutter, then 3 drive links, then 2 . . . .

I based my comment on a quick look at the STIHL website (see screen shot, below), but now that I blow it up, it may be that the extra space was just due to the end of the loop? If you have the chain you can correct me.







The USG chart confuses everyone who does not have a USG grinder. The insert packed with each STIHL chain loop has helpful information, but uses the 'side plate cutting angle' which is not the same as the 'side plate grinding angle' (grinder head tilt angle)! It is the resulting angle you get when you grind a chain at X degrees vise rotation with Y degrees of head tilt!

Oregon publishes a guide for all of their chains, and you can use it as a reference for similar sized chains (on-line version): OREGON Maintenance Manual

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 12, 2012)

Attached, is page 4 from the insert packed with STIHL chains. Column 'b' is problematic, as described in my post above.

Philbert


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## RES (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks Philbert for the Oregon Chart. One thing I didn't realize is that Oregon uses 55 degrees and 50 degrees on their chains. I had been using 60 degrees.

The USG chart is not that confusing if you follow "Lakeside53's" advice from above. (I sure miss Lakeside53 on this forum). If you substract the head tilt values in the USG chart from 90 degrees you get 50 and 60 degrees for most of the Stihl chains. For vise tilt the USG chart gives 0 degrees and 15 degrees which is also reasonable.
On my old Efco grinder I was only able to tilt to fixed positions of + or - 10 degrees with the vise. My new Maxx grinder, and the Stihl USG provide the tilt factor by sliding the vise and therefore the chain away from the tangent point on the grinding wheel and therefore allowing the curvature of the grinding wheel to replicate the tilt. The sliding range of the Maxx grinder is + and - 15 degrees whereas the Stihl USG grinder is + and - 40 degrees, both giving you the 15 degree range that you need.

In my opinion having tried alot of grinders, the Maxx grinder with an ABN wheel is an unbeatable combination.


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## Fish (Jan 13, 2012)

In all the years and all of the Stihl dealerships I have worked for, I have never seen a Stihl grinder that I liked, my Efco/Oregon was my favorite.

The tilting vise is for full chisel, not the picco.

If memory serves me correctly, the 15% feature is a forward/backward slide to compensate for wheel wear on the USG.


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## RES (Jan 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> In all the years and all of the Stihl dealerships I have worked for, I have never seen a Stihl grinder that I liked, my Efco/Oregon was my favorite.
> 
> The tilting vise is for full chisel, not the picco.
> 
> If memory serves me correctly, the 15% feature is a forward/backward slide to compensate for wheel wear on the USG.



Not according to the Stihl chart shown in Post #4.


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2012)

Again, I have never used the USG grinder, and don't fully understand it, so I am not how or if the angles correspond to an Oregon type grinder. It is also confusing when one set of specs appears to suggest a 90 degree (or 0 degree) file tilt angle and another suggests tilting the chain holding vise when grinding the same type of chain. 

Some of these may be specific to the tool used. For example, Oregon suggests tilting the vise when grinding most full chisel chains, but states that their filing guide should always be held level (0 degrees).

Attached are links to the USG manual and chart if anyone else wants to take a look. There are also some different wheel profiles 

Philbert

http://www.stihlusa.com/stihl_ownersmanuals/USG_Manual.pdf

http://www.stihlusa.com/stihl_ownersmanuals/USG_sawchainangles_chart.pdf


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## Fish (Jan 13, 2012)

RES said:


> Not according to the Stihl chart shown in Post #4.



What do you mean? If you mean tilt, the usg does not tilt.


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## RES (Jan 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> What do you mean? If you mean tilt, the usg does not tilt.



I am making the assumption that the tilt is replicated by sliding the vise table away from the high point of the wheel arc causing one side of the tooth to be ground deeper than the other. No one has told be this, so I may be wrong. I am relying on all you AS experts to set me straight on my assumption. The Stihl grinders and the Maxx grinder use sliding tables of the ones I know.


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## Fish (Jan 13, 2012)

I believe it has more to do with the even taking back of the cutters when switching from left to right grinding, especially when the wheel is new,
but I luckily haven't been stuck using the Stihl grinders enough to explore it further.

But in general, the tilt motion on files and my Efco/Oregon grinders are for the full chisel, and the picco chains are not full chisel.


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## One Shot Will (Jan 13, 2012)

I run the stihl rsc 3/8 chain (yellow box) I sharpen them with the bright green cheapo grinders at 30/60/0 and they cut great 
the charts and graphs confused me and i just took a new chain and set with that 
that is what works the best for me!


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## RES (Jan 13, 2012)

One Shot Will said:


> I run the stihl rsc 3/8 chain (yellow box) I sharpen them with the bright green cheapo grinders at 30/60/0 and they cut great
> the charts and graphs confused me and i just took a new chain and set with that
> that is what works the best for me!



I agree. I don't think there are too many Stihl dealers that use the HSG grinder and follow these angles with all the precision shown in the charts. The subtle differance it makes is probably not worth all the extra effort.


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## Climb Higher (Aug 17, 2018)

Stihl grinder guide says 30 side / vice angle, 85 grinding wheel tilt, 0 degrees titlt or 90 degrees straight up vertical


For RM Rapid Micro, semi chisel “?” shape yellow label chains


Chain biox literature says 30/ 75 / 0


Smart forum guys says - a chain will cut at both 60° and 85°. This angle lMO is the most overlooked in chain filing/grinding. This angle is what makes a chain smooth/grabby in wood and is responsible for pulling the chain into wood. Many think depth gauge is solely responsible for a self feeding chain but that is only part of the reason. At 85° the cutting edge will endure hardwood longer and smoother however many US species probably do not require the added strength of an 85° edge. You need to find what works best in the wood your cutting. l use 75° in wood that sinks in water and that does well. At 60° things are not as smooth and harder on drive sprockets/chains. But l wood imagine 60° would work well in softer species and perform better.


My guess is that 75 is best for Mo hardwoods, so I will try that, plus I will make sure my rakers are correct depth... good fun


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## Philbert (Aug 17, 2018)

Lots of angles. In these STIHL images, the '*Filing Angle*' would typically be 30°, and the '*Side Plate Angle*' would be 60°. These are the angles set on a typical Oregon / Tecomec type grinder. The '*Top Plate Cutting Angle'* is a resultant angle (not even sure how to measure that one).

Philbert


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## rwoods (Aug 17, 2018)

Philbert said:


> View attachment 669431
> 
> Lots of angles. In these STIHL images, the '*Filing Angle*' would typically be 30°, and the '*Side Plate Angle*' would be 60°. These are the angles set on a typical Oregon / Tecomec type grinder. The '*Top Plate Cutting Angle'* is a resultant angle (not even sure how to measure that one).
> 
> Philbert



Philbert,

Straighten me out on the tilt business as both my Tecomec grinder and my FG2 have a tilt feature. Is the side plate side on the downhill or the uphill of the tilt? Thanks, Ron


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## Philbert (Aug 17, 2018)

It's called a 'down angle' because you drop the handle of the file 'down' (typically 10 degrees), even as you are filing 'up' (outside of the cutter towards the corner). 

Keeping this in mind helps me picture what I am trying to achieve.

On the Tecomec grinder this means you tilt the tops of the Left hand cutters TOWARDS the grinder, and tilt the tops of the Right hand cutters AWAY from the grinder.

Oregon says to remember 'Right Away!'

These grinders have a spring detent at 10 degrees. 

Philbert


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## CR888 (Aug 18, 2018)

The best way to understand the effect of using the 'tilt' feature on the grinder vice is to use it and observe the changes in angle geometry. On the same chain grind normally on a 0° flat vice for a number of cutters then switch to 10° tilt. Say do 4 of each then remove the chain hold it up to the eye with the sun/light source behind you and observe the changes. You will notice the top plate angle will change a few degrees, the inner top plate will have a taper in it, the side plate hook will change along with the angle of its edge. Your eyes are your best chain tool....you gotta use em.


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## rwoods (Aug 18, 2018)

Glad I asked as I would have guessed the opposite. Thought it funny that the FG2 has the tilt feature but the manual makes no reference to it. 

I am trying to set up an old File-n-Joint to square file. What angles should I use? Once again Stihl’s instructions are lacking; this time with the flyer that comes with the chains. 

Ron


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## Philbert (Aug 18, 2018)

Start with a chain that you like. Mount it in the grinder / file guide / whatever. Then adjust the setting to copy those angles.

Philbert


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## Del_ (Aug 18, 2018)

Maybe this will help.


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## rwoods (Aug 18, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Start with a chain that you like. Mount it in the grinder / file guide / whatever. Then adjust the setting to copy those angles.
> 
> Philbert



Easier said than done at least for me. Read an old thread tonight where Madhatte said that though the File-in-Joint would work it is a quite something else to do the right side cutters and it would be just as easy to learn to hand file - so I tried my hand at it tonight on a dull square Stihl .404 with a Stihl 6 side rod type file. Felt natural and thought I could get the hang of it until I started on the left cutters. Anything but natural. Will try it again this week. I guess one could set the guide to do left and do right by hand; but that one wouldn’t be me.

Ron


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