# Looking for wood furnace



## iowa (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm looking to purchase a wood furnace soon. I currently have a Longwood. It works great. Just looking for something that's more efficient and safe. 

Some things I need. 

Heat 3000sq ft. 
Auto dampner
10hr burn times. 
Be able to hook up to my existing duct work. 

I have a through the wall flue. It is 6" double wall. I have a walk out basement. 

Thanks!


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## Constrictor (Sep 9, 2012)

Id go for the england stoveworks 28 3500 furnace. You wont regret it!


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## brenndatomu (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm sure you would want to check out the several mfg's that are sponsors of AS. Some good stuff there....


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## cfarms (Sep 10, 2012)

iowa said:


> I'm looking to purchase a wood furnace soon. I currently have a Longwood. It works great. Just looking for something that's more efficient and safe.
> 
> Some things I need.
> 
> ...



Check out lamppakuuma.com I put one in my house last fall and can't believe what an awesome furnace it is! I get 12 hour burns with NO creosote! Bought another one for my shop that will be done in October. If you have any questions let me know!


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## lampmfg (Sep 10, 2012)

iowa said:


> I'm looking to purchase a wood furnace soon. I currently have a Longwood. It works great. Just looking for something that's more efficient and safe.
> 
> Some things I need.
> 
> ...



If you want the best it's the Kuuma Vapor-Fire 100 and we have been waiting for you for to make one of the best decisions possible for a long time. The sooner you decide the better because we are over a month behind on furnaces with the skyrocketing demand!!

The biggest difference from the Kuuma Vapor-Fire 100 and 200 to any other hot air woodburning furnace is that the Vapor-Fires are true gasification furnaces, while others aren't. With emissions as low as .01 gr/mj or less than 1 gr/hr. and combustion efficiencies of 99%, you know for a fact that gasification is taking place. Also, at the same time, smokeless burns are taking place and further demonstrate gasification. Remember this, when there is no smoke, there is also no creosote.


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## iowa (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm also looking at the Charmaster Chalet. Can the Vaporfire be used to heat my hot water? I like that the Chalet will heat my water. Tired of my electric hot water heater. Our hot water demand is getting greater and the electric water heater is always behind..


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## lampmfg (Sep 10, 2012)

Yes, we sell an optional H2O coil (+$200) that that works great for domestic water. My dad's electric bill actually goes down in the winter when it's running.

Is there any worry of over heating the tank, or coil when hot h2o is not in use? Does the pop off, pop off routinely to keep pressure down? There's no worries because it circulates the whole tank. It's in motion whenever the furnace is heating. It's designed to be a helper, and not total heat, that way you don't have to worry about the popoff going off.

Hey guy's, Quick question in the hot water schematics for the tempering tank. The drawings you gave me said 30-50 gal tempering tank. Can the tempering tank be an 80 gal? Or is that to big to have the vapor fire keep up with. That would be OK because the hot H20 just goes to the top of the tank anyways. You still get the same amount of hot H20 because this is designed as a helper and a total H20 heater. We don't want it to boil the water.

I don't want to start putting down other manufactures because many make quality products here in the US. However with the Charmaster design their theory is to form a big bed of charcoal throughout the whole fire box and that's the worst thing you can do when burning wood because when you get down to the coals there's no heat left and you have all of the coals to deal with. Our furnace goes through the 3 stages of burning wood, which are the gases, cellulose and then coals as it moves backwards and you don't have all the coals in the way when you want to refire. We still have coals for 15 hrs. for refiring without lighting a match.


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## iowa (Sep 10, 2012)

Sounds GREAT!!! If I ordered in the next week, how soon would it take to get one here in Southern Missoura?


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## lampmfg (Sep 10, 2012)

iowa said:


> Sounds GREAT!!! If I ordered in the next week, how soon would it take to get one here in Southern Missoura?



I think it would be late October or very early November. Give my dad a call at the shop to confirm or shoot us an e-mail because he usually looks them over every night.


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## Riverguide (Sep 10, 2012)

Iowa. I have been looking at furnaces for a long time and went with the Vaporfire.. Smaller pieces of wood, longer but times, and no smoke = no chimney fire (just vapor ). If I am not mistaken I believe that it is the most efficient furnace on the market. The 200 takes 17 inch pieces of wood which helps the back out a little bit... A furnace like the Englander is not even on the same planet as a Kumma...


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## lampmfg (Sep 10, 2012)

Riverguide said:


> Iowa. I have been looking at furnaces for a long time and went with the Vaporfire.. Smaller pieces of wood, longer but times, and no smoke = no chimney fire (just vapor ). If I am not mistaken I believe that it is the most efficient furnace on the market. The 200 takes 17 inch pieces of wood which helps the back out a little bit... A furnace like the Englander is not even on the same planet as a Kumma...



If I am not mistaken I believe that it is the most efficient furnace on the market. As far as we are aware and we even post the actual test results on our website, which I haven't seen from ANY other manufacturer's who claim high efficiency.

A furnace like the Englander is not even on the same planet as a Kumma...  You are completely correct and I might even go as far to say solar system. It's like comparing a new car to a bicycle where they both get you places, but just completely different...


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## Fyrebug (Sep 10, 2012)

Hey Iowa, If you can stand another recommendation we manufacture the Caddy EPA line of wood furnace. 

3,000 Sq Ft is quite a large house. Make sure any furnace you buy has the blower able to handle it and your duct system is balanced properly. As you know wood does not burn like oil or gas at peak BTU all the time.

The Max Caddy http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=26&Id=563&Page=description can handle 3,000 sq ft and like the Kuuma does not have any smoke or creosote issues since it re-burns the smoke.

Some of the benefits are about 140,000 Max output BTU (on high Fire) or a better way to figure it out about 90,000 average BTU over the life of the fire. Customers have claimed fires up to 18 hours but typically you are looking into the 8Hrs to 12Hrs range depending on your house BTU load. BTW, what do you heat with now and what is the BTU rating of your current furnace?

The blower is a multi speed self adjusting blower that tries to keep the temperature in the plenum constant. That's why we can claim efficiencies of 82% for such a large furnace. The self adjusting blower ensures the fire box doesn't cool too fast on start-up and end-of-fire thus ensuring no smoke condensation (creosote) will occur. 

As options, you can add an oil burner, electric elements or both! You can also bring your cold air return on the right, left or top. Good if you're in a tight installation. There is also an optional hot water loop to pre-heat your domestic water. It is also AC ready and has an entire electronic board to control all those features. 

This is a favorite with the Amish folks in the Mid-West.

If you want a rough estimate of cost PM me and i'll find a good dealer in your area.


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## iowa (Sep 10, 2012)

I currently have been using a Longwood furnace. It keeps our house plenty warm. It's just inefficient and eats a lot of wood. 

I called Lampa when I got home from work today. I will be ordering one once I get my shipping quote tomorrow. I sure hope winter don't come early. He said early Nov is estimated ETA! Gonna cut it close.


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## laynes69 (Sep 10, 2012)

I was going to recommend the Max Caddy also. I'm sure it's one of the largest clean burning furnaces on the market. I think the Kuuma has a good design, but not sure if it's large enough for your home. I understand where Kuuma explains the btu loads of a home, but we have a 2400 sqft Victorian with 10' ceilings and 42 windows. Well insulated but a little drafty and at 0 degrees with an indoor temp of 72 our load comes at around 75,000 btus an hour to heat. Our home has the cubic footage of a 3000 sqft home with 8' ceilings. I've read your threads where you have -20 degree winters and heavy winds. Your heating load has to be more than ours so a larger furnace might be needed. Our caddy does burn clean, and much longer than our old furnace. Where we would remove buckets of creosote from the chimney with the old, the new we remove under a quart of stuff from the chimney.


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## iowa (Sep 10, 2012)

laynes69 said:


> I was going to recommend the Max Caddy also. I'm sure it's one of the largest clean burning furnaces on the market. I think the Kuuma has a good design, but not sure if it's large enough for your home. I understand where Kuuma explains the btu loads of a home, but we have a 2400 sqft Victorian with 10' ceilings and 42 windows. Well insulated but a little drafty and at 0 degrees with an indoor temp of 72 our load comes at around 75,000 btus an hour to heat. Our home has the cubic footage of a 3000 sqft home with 8' ceilings. I've read your threads where you have -20 degree winters and heavy winds. Your heating load has to be more than ours so a larger furnace might be needed. Our caddy does burn clean, and much longer than our old furnace. Where we would remove buckets of creosote from the chimney with the old, the new we remove under a quart of stuff from the chimney.



I don't know about -20 degree weather here. But in southern Missouri its very mild winters. I have a well insulated home built in 2004. I think the vaporfire 100 will be plenty of heat for my home.


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## lampmfg (Sep 10, 2012)

Known for the Cold
Embarrass has vied for the title of “Coldest Place in the Nation” in a rivalry with International Falls, MN. The all-time unofficial low temperature for Embarrass was -64ºF on February 2, 1996. Coming in as the second coldest day in the town, the temperature reached -54ºF on January 17, 2005. It is also said that it can frost in Embarrass at any time of the year, since it is in such a low-lying area amid the Mesabi and Vermilion ranges.

This is 5 minutes from Tower, MN where we are located so I wouldn't be to worried about the Kuuma not having enough pop. The first thing I ever do when going to my parents house (Good size over 3,000 sq ft including the finished basement and vaulted ceilings upstairs) for winter family gatherings is remove a few layers of clothes and my dad was know by all my friends growing up as whitey tighty, because that's what they would catch him in half the time when they came over no matter the time of year.


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## Fyrebug (Sep 10, 2012)

iowa said:


> I don't know about -20 degree weather here. But in southern Missouri its very mild winters. I have a well insulated home built in 2004. I think the vaporfire 100 will be plenty of heat for my home.



Okay... but above all you may want to focus not so much on the size of the firebox but rather your duct work. Your large 3000 Sq ft home means you have a fair amount of duct work. If you have an HVAC guy you trust he may be able to do the calculation to see what kind of CFM you need to push the heat and properly balance the system.


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## laynes69 (Sep 10, 2012)

Yeah, you'll be fine. I was thinking you had an older home. You just had a oversized inefficient wood furnace. You will probably cut your consumption by more than a third.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 10, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Okay... but above all you may want to focus not so much on the size of the firebox but rather your duct work. Your large 3000 Sq ft home means you have a fair amount of duct work. If you have an HVAC guy you trust he may be able to do the calculation to see what kind of CFM you need to push the heat and properly balance the system.



+1 on that. Even though my furnace room is fairly big, the design and layout of my duct work and flue definitely figured into what furnaces I could even consider. Oh, and even though the Yukon multifuel furnace I went with, lined up pretty well with my existing furnaces connections, I found out if you have to get any amount of custom duct made...surprise! Big *$$$* :msp_ohmy: Just something to keep in mind with your final decision if total install price is in the equation at all.....Gotta say though, the "autopilot" system on that LK V-fire is very intriguing! Enjoy your new furnace, I'm sure you'll be nice and toasty and save some wood compared to before, whatever you choose. Don't forget...pics please :msp_thumbup:


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## iowa (Sep 11, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> +1 on that. Even though my furnace room is fairly big, the design and layout of my duct work and flue definitely figured into what furnaces I could even consider. Oh, and even though the Yukon multifuel furnace I went with, lined up pretty well with my existing furnaces connections, I found out if you have to get any amount of custom duct made...surprise! Big *$$$* :msp_ohmy: Just something to keep in mind with your final decision if total install price is in the equation at all.....Gotta say though, the "autopilot" system on that LK V-fire is very intriguing! Enjoy your new furnace, I'm sure you'll be nice and toasty and save some wood compared to before, whatever you choose. Don't forget...pics please :msp_thumbup:



Oh.. I won't forget pics!

And my dads old boss is a heating and ac guy! So I've already contacted him about hooking up the duct work!


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## iowa (Sep 12, 2012)

My deposit is in as of yesterday. I guess I will be the proud owner of one of these new space age units.

Is it done yet???? 

I've gotta wait till early NOV!!!!! Tell Daryll to stop yapping on the phone and get to building!!!! :msp_rolleyes:


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## aaronmach1 (Sep 12, 2012)

i see the kuuma website says the furnace requires seasoned wood with below 28% moisture. what happens if you use wood not seasoned enough?


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## lampmfg (Sep 12, 2012)

aaronmach1 said:


> i see the kuuma website says the furnace requires seasoned wood with below 28% moisture. what happens if you use wood not seasoned enough?



You can still burn it and it would heat your house but it's not recommended. The higher the moisture content, the more energy that must be used to evaporate (boil) the water in the wood before it will burn. Dry wood delivers more energy for heating than green wood of the same species. Burning unseasoned (green) or even partially seasoned wood in your stove or fireplace will cause creosote build-up in your chimney, which can lead to a chimney fire at the worst, and a lack of fire or a roomful or smoke at best.


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## aaronmach1 (Sep 12, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> You can still burn it and it would heat your house but it's not recommended. The higher the moisture content, the more energy that must be used to evaporate (boil) the water in the wood before it will burn. Dry wood delivers more energy for heating than green wood of the same species. Burning unseasoned (green) or even partially seasoned wood in your stove or fireplace will cause creosote build-up in your chimney, which can lead to a chimney fire at the worst, and a lack of fire or a roomful or smoke at best.



ok so the kuuma has no additional problems with unseasoned wood that a regular wood furnace wouldnt have?


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## lampmfg (Sep 12, 2012)

aaronmach1 said:


> ok so the kuuma has no additional problems with unseasoned wood that a regular wood furnace wouldnt have?



Definitely not... We pride our selves on fantastic efficiency and unbelievably low emissions. The testing process we went through was very intensive but you definitely wouldn't be able to achieve the same results using green wood.


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## lampmfg (Sep 12, 2012)

iowa said:


> My deposit is in as of yesterday. I guess I will be the proud owner of one of these new space age units.
> 
> Is it done yet????
> 
> I've gotta wait till early NOV!!!!! Tell Daryll to stop yapping on the phone and get to building!!!! :msp_rolleyes:



That is great!! However, I actually wish my dad would spend more time talking on the phone and learning how to use the computer, because it would result in our sales doubling, even thought we can't possibly make more then we currently have manufactured this year. For anyone who has talked with him especially when he's not doing 5 things at once and actually has some time it's like he's a wood burning encyclopedia... 
Unfortunately he is a control freak and thinks that he needs to help make every single furnace and sauna stove that has been manufactured by us on top of all his other duties. He wears every hat imaginable except for our online presence (Lead Welder, Ordering, Shipping, Forecasting, Designer, HR, Sales, basically if you name it he does it with little help). He has put in a 60 hour work week for the past 30 years over at the shop and it didn't start paying off until 5-7 years ago. We have always sold a lot of Kuuma sauna stoves but all of his tinkering and testing on the furnaces finally paid off. However it took a lot of cash to go through the testing process so people would something factual to back up his efficiency and emissions claims.
You will be happy you waited... :msp_biggrin:


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## iowa (Sep 25, 2012)

Is it done yet????


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## lampmfg (Sep 25, 2012)

iowa said:


> Is it done yet????



:msp_biggrin: I wish we just got set back a few days for some parts that were back ordered on the furnace controls. It won't affect people waiting down the road just people who's furnaces were already made (minus the controls) and supposed to go out early this week. Wish we had control over everything but that's pretty unrealistic these days.


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## iowa (Oct 9, 2012)

They started on my ductwork today! Looking good. The supply run is all insulated too!


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## stihly dan (Oct 9, 2012)

Why insulate the supply, Don't you want some heat in the basement? So how much the chargen ya? Was it in your $1500 budget.


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## iowa (Oct 9, 2012)

I have several heat vent registers already in the basement. And he was worried about the furnace getting too hot etc. The manual states 6" clearance above the plenum and first part of run. 

I budgeted $1250 for it. The total was $970 installed.


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## iowa (Oct 9, 2012)

Oh. And I also mentioned to him that our bedroom is directly above the furnace and that it stays really warm in there during the winter. Which kind of sux for sleeping. So he listens and understands heating pretty well. LOL.


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## stihly dan (Oct 9, 2012)

Nice.


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## iowa (Oct 15, 2012)

Any new updates on the Furnace? Still looking at Early Nov?
Thanks


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## iowa (Oct 26, 2012)

It's getting cold!!!! And my propain furnace is running. ahhhhhh


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## Fyrebug (Oct 26, 2012)

iowa said:


> It's getting cold!!!! And my propain furnace is running. ahhhhhh



Well, we have plenty of Max Caddy in stock...


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## Constrictor (Oct 26, 2012)

iowa said:


> It's getting cold!!!! And my propain furnace is running. ahhhhhh



Didnt they say November?


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## lampmfg (Oct 26, 2012)

We definitely understand were you are coming from and have been manufacturing as fast as possible. I just spoke with my dad and he said that he will probably be able to bump yours up into the next batch of 4. However its' still gonna be a little while before we ship because our next batch of controllers doesn't arrive until November. Our list is 30 deep and we even recently hired another certified welder to help with demand. 

When you get the World's best indoor wood gasification furnace it will be worth the wait...:msp_smile:


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## iowa (Oct 26, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> We definitely understand were you are coming from and have been manufacturing as fast as possible. I just spoke with my dad and he said that he will probably be able to bump yours up into the next batch of 4. However its' still gonna be a little while before we ship because our next batch of controllers doesn't arrive until November. Our list is 30 deep and we even recently hired another certified welder to help with demand.
> 
> When you get the World's best indoor wood gasification furnace it will be worth the wait...:msp_smile:



Great!! I can't wait. I'll split some wood this weekend and keep my mind thinking about other things. LOL..


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## lampmfg (Oct 26, 2012)

Sorry for not responding sooner as I have been out commission for a little while. View attachment 259343
I planned to have this done for awhile but I needed to wait until we slowed down at my other job -Resort Manager at Fortune Bay Resort Casino on beautiful Lake Vermillion. 

I assure you that my dad has been working endlessly at the shop and shipping out 4-5 a week!!


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## iowa (Oct 26, 2012)

OH man. That looks painful! I hope it heals well for you and you're back on your feet asap!


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## lampmfg (Oct 26, 2012)

iowa said:


> OH man. That looks painful! I hope it heals well for you and you're back on your feet asap!



Yea not much fun. It was two weeks Wednesday and if they would have shown me the picture ahead of time I probably would have left this big ball View attachment 259346
the rest of my life.


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## stihly dan (Oct 26, 2012)

Thats a cool scar. Now you have to come up with a cooler story of what happened. 

Hang in there Iowa. I ran mine 1 day a couple of weeks ago. Drove me out of the house. 2nd fire should be sometime this weekend with the storm coming in. I am hesitant to fire, I have been reading some post of other furnaces giving of too much heat. I will find out soon enough.

Evan tho I have only run mine for a 30 hr period, I can tell you that so far it is incredibly easy to use.


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## iowa (Nov 4, 2012)

Any new news on the controllers?


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## lampmfg (Nov 5, 2012)

iowa said:


> Any new news on the controllers?



We are currently waiting on more of them.  We had to do a little tweaking with the new design and now they are running great.

Just saw this posted on ********** and before anyone asks we don't offer a glass window. 

Kumma VaporFire 200 Delivered And Running!!!

Discussion in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by Binny, Yesterday at 9:38 PM.

Binny New Member

joined: Sep 26, 2011

13 posts

Hudson Vally NY

Well after all of your help and questions being answered I decided to to go with a Kumma Vaporfire 200. Expectations were high and they were by far exceeded. I ran separate ductwork from the Vaporfire to the existing registers in my home. I am currently burning less then ideal wood and getting 8hr burn times I would expect them to go to 10-11 hours maybe more when I start burning locust and oak. My house is 2200sft and it was 31deg last night - woke up to a 73 deg house!! with a bed of coals. Best of all - NO SMOKE. Granted the first 5 - 10 min a small amount of light smoke can be seen coming from the chimney but it quickly turns to vapor and stays that way usually even through reloads. Very little ash. I should have went with the glass door though. Sometimes I just cant help myself from opening the door to see whats going on in there. I might get it because I was told that opening the door during a burn decreases the burn time from the cooling of the fire chamber. I will keep you guys posted. Feel free to ask any question. Overall excellent product built like a tank and absolutely great people to deal with. 

Binny, Yesterday at 9:38 PM
#1


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## stihly dan (Nov 5, 2012)

Whats the new design? how is it different? And it must be better, how?


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## lampmfg (Nov 5, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Whats the new design? how is it different? And it must be better, how?



The only thing different is it's digital. Personally I haven't even seen one but I think my dad said that it displays high, medium, and low instead of the lights. It definitely won't make it burn any better or differently  We had a couple of quirks with it, but I think they are ironed out. If it's something that your REALLY interested in e-mail at [email protected] and I'll see what I can do. The problem is we don't even have any on hand and have to wait until the next batch of 10 arrives.


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## iowa (Nov 5, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> The only thing different is it's digital. Personally I haven't even seen one but I think my dad said that it displays high, medium, and low instead of the lights. It definitely won't make it burn any better or differently  We had a couple of quirks with it, but I think they are ironed out. If it's something that your REALLY interested in e-mail at [email protected] and I'll see what I can do. The problem is we don't even have any on hand and have to wait until the next batch of 10 arrives.



If you have a regular controller I'll take it. I don't need digital. Just another thing to go wrong....


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## stihly dan (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks for the offer, but no thanks. No back up heat here = no testing new products. If it makes it more efficient or steadier. Maybe next year.


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## lampmfg (Nov 5, 2012)

We don't have any controllers. Believe me with the list of people waiting my dad has gotten rid of them all. I was just at the shop the other day and figured I would see a new controller on the trusty old school Kuuma Vapor-Fire 100, but nope same one that's been on there for years.


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## iowa (Nov 13, 2012)

Gettin cold round here!!! :sarcastic:


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## Constrictor (Nov 13, 2012)

iowa said:


> Gettin cold round here!!! :sarcastic:



I hear ya bro! i feel for ya havin all that wood and no stove! you can come over to my house and stay warm! build some airplanes here too!


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## Fyrebug (Nov 13, 2012)

I can also have a Caddy over to your place by Thursday...

Sorry Garret, couldn't resist! :msp_w00t:


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## iowa (Nov 13, 2012)

Constrictor said:


> I hear ya bro! i feel for ya havin all that wood and no stove! you can come over to my house and stay warm! build some airplanes here too!



Do I know you?


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## lampmfg (Nov 13, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> I can also have a Caddy over to your place by Thursday...
> 
> Sorry Garret, couldn't resist! :msp_w00t:



NP that was a good one... :msp_biggrin:


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## iowa (Nov 13, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> NP that was a good one... :msp_biggrin:



That might be an option. I need to get something installed asap. I've got in-laws coming for thanksgiving and need it going soon. Early Nov is now mid Nov.......


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## lampmfg (Nov 13, 2012)

iowa said:


> Gettin cold round here!!! :sarcastic:



I just got back from a planning session (Sun,Mon,Tues) at a casino in Red Lake, but I'll check with him tomorrow for an update (P.S. wouldn't recommend it for a retreat unless it's absolutely necessary :msp_smile. I did stop at the shop last Friday and the old man is working like a machine so it should be ready shortly.


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## lampmfg (Nov 13, 2012)

iowa said:


> That might be an option. I need to get something installed asap. I've got in-laws coming for thanksgiving and need it going soon. Early Nov is now mid Nov.......



I just called and spoke with him. Yours is in this current batch and they are doing the hoods right now. He said it will be shipped out next week. I'm sure that he will be calling you some time next week to finalize the remaining payment before he ships. 

We are a small business that manufactures the best indoor wood furnace on the market. I'm not BS'ing when I say that those guys are working their tails off everyday trying to get all these furnaces done, but we have never had to deal with this kind of non-stop demand. I was at the shop last week when Stihly Dan called my dad after we were technically already closed and I listened to my dad talk with him for 20 minutes. How many places can you do that? Heck I can't even call during the day without speaking with someone where English is a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th language  You will be happy in the long run!!


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## stihly dan (Nov 13, 2012)

That is true. I called at 6 pm with a question, they answered the phone and my question. They have been very accommodating, and I've been kind of a pain in the a$$.


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## iowa (Nov 13, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> I just called and spoke with him. Yours is in this current batch and they are doing the hoods right now. He said it will be shipped out next week. I'm sure that he will be calling you some time next week to finalize the remaining payment before he ships.
> 
> We are a small business that manufactures the best indoor wood furnace on the market. I'm not BS'ing when I say that those guys are working their tails off everyday trying to get all these furnaces done, but we have never had to deal with this kind of non-stop demand. I was at the shop last week when Stihly Dan called my dad after we were technically already closed and I listened to my dad talk with him for 20 minutes. How many places can you do that? Heck I can't even call during the day without speaking with someone where English is a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th language  You will be happy in the long run!!



I'm just ribbin ya! I can't wait fer it. But I'm just glad that its been pretty mild weather so far! 65 deg for Turkey day!


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## iowa (Nov 15, 2012)

Great news. Mr. Darryl Laampa just called. My furnace is shipping on Monday! I'm excited to say the least!


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## lampmfg (Nov 15, 2012)

iowa said:


> Great news. Mr. Darryl Laampa just called. My furnace is shipping on Monday! I'm excited to say the least!



Yep and here are some pictures of them that I just took around an hour ago. View attachment 262396
View attachment 262397
View attachment 262398
View attachment 262399
One is definitely yours...


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## Constrictor (Nov 15, 2012)

iowa said:


> Great news. Mr. Darryl Laampa just called. My furnace is shipping on Monday! I'm excited to say the least!



Awesome! And yes you know me! Let me know if you need any help installing that baby.


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## iowa (Nov 15, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> Yep and here are some pictures of them that I just took around an hour ago. View attachment 262396
> View attachment 262397
> View attachment 262398
> View attachment 262399
> One is definitely yours...



Thanks for the pics! Looks great! It was funny. Your dad called me at 4:30 and at 6 my heating and air guy called asking when they need to finish up! Great timing.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 15, 2012)

iowa said:


> Great news. Mr. Darryl Laampa just called. My furnace is shipping on Monday! I'm excited to say the least!



COOL! Hope you can get it before turkey day, maybe work on it some this weekend! (assuming you are off work)


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## iowa (Nov 15, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> COOL! Hope you can get it before turkey day, maybe work on it some this weekend! (assuming you are off work)



I'm off tday weekend. And the heating guy said his boys wanna work the weekend also. So I may just have her running by next Sunday! Only thing in my way is the in-laws coming to visit. I'll put them to work.


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## stihly dan (Nov 16, 2012)

If it's shipping on Monday, you will be lucky to get it by turkey day. Open both boxes completely before signing the packing slip. Easy to have hidden damage from trucking. Just got my check last week from augusts shipment..

P.S nice pics, but mine is prettier.


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## iowa (Nov 19, 2012)

I notified my ins. company that I'd be putting this in the house. She said no problem as long as it's secondary heat! She said she would put note of it in my records. So I'm good to go!


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## stihly dan (Nov 19, 2012)

And what if it was primary heat? Did she say?


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## iowa (Nov 19, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> And what if it was primary heat? Did she say?



Well. What she meant by it was that we still had our proPAIN furnace intact and still there incase fire goes out. They don't want frozen water lines. But around here its gotta get pretty cold for that.


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## stihly dan (Nov 19, 2012)

That sounds about right. God knows that mechanical heat does not break, or run out of petro. I hate the ins people. After this warm spell you should be ready to pump out the wood heat. Be careful loading, it pumps out the heat.


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## iowa (Nov 19, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> That sounds about right. God knows that mechanical heat does not break, or run out of petro. I hate the ins people. After this warm spell you should be ready to pump out the wood heat. Be careful loading, it pumps out the heat.



Looks like I've got until the 27th before I'm gonna need it. Really was lucky that its been so mild.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 26, 2012)

Didja get it? Is it done yet? Howd it go? Whatchya think? Warm yet? Huh? Huh? Huh? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## iowa (Nov 26, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> Didja get it? Is it done yet? Howd it go? Whatchya think? Warm yet? Huh? Huh? Huh? :hmm3grin2orange:



Lol. Nonono. 

Didn't get shipped until late Tuesday. Not expected here until tomorrow or wed now.


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## iowa (Nov 26, 2012)

Well SNAP!!!!! I ran back to receiving just a bit ago and low and behold!!! 2 boxes layin there with my name on it and they're the shape of a furnace and plenum box. MUST BE>>> COULD IT BE>>> IT IS!!!!! 

Dunno when it showed!! Haven't talked to the manager yet. He called them late wed afternoon before I left work. And they told him it would be here on TUES at the earliest, but would be here on Wed. more than likely. 

So crap. Now I have a furnace here but no trailer to bring it home in. I'm not putting it in the back of the truck. That would be a pia to unload then!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Constrictor (Nov 26, 2012)

iowa said:


> Well SNAP!!!!! I ran back to receiving just a bit ago and low and behold!!! 2 boxes layin there with my name on it and they're the shape of a furnace and plenum box. MUST BE>>> COULD IT BE>>> IT IS!!!!!
> 
> Dunno when it showed!! Haven't talked to the manager yet. He called them late wed afternoon before I left work. And they told him it would be here on TUES at the earliest, but would be here on Wed. more than likely.
> 
> So crap. Now I have a furnace here but no trailer to bring it home in. I'm not putting it in the back of the truck. That would be a pia to unload then!:hmm3grin2orange:



Congrats dude! give me a holler and ill come help you unload her and install too if you need help.


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## iowa (Nov 26, 2012)

Well.... The shippers thought it would be cool to bash in the side of the furnace!!! Thanks! :mad2:


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## iowa (Nov 26, 2012)

Doh. View attachment 264220
View attachment 264221


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## stihly dan (Nov 26, 2012)

iowa said:


> Do. View attachment 264220
> View attachment 264221



I told you so...Did the receiver right up the damage before signing? When you put together a repair quote, Don't forget labor. Should take about 7 weeks for a check. Good luck with the install.


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## iowa (Nov 26, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> I told you so...Did the receiver right up the damage before signing? When you put together a repair quote, Don't forget labor. Should take about 7 weeks for a check. Good luck with the install.



No. Boxes were in perfect shape. 

We called wed before I left work and the shipping company said it was to be here on tues or wed. So this morning I went back to talk to receiving manager and tell him that when it arrives to get ahold of me and I would inspect it. But when I got back there 2 packages were sitting there with my name on it. 

So they signed for it and truck left. I called the company. They're starting a claim. I told them there was hidden damage. Boxes were perfect. It takes quite a while to take all the packaging off to inspect anyways.


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## stihly dan (Nov 26, 2012)

Yes it does. They pack those up well. Don't let the trucking co, push you around on this. Send them the pics as well. Also those dents pop out pretty easy with a good wack from the inside.


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## lampmfg (Nov 26, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Yes it does. They pack those up well. Don't let the trucking co, push you around on this. Send them the pics as well. Also those dents pop out pretty easy with a good wack from the inside.



That's why my dad is going to end up having a stroke, because we do everything possible on our end to make sure everything is crated up perfectly. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good freight company or a better way to ship furnaces and sauna stoves? Tongue and cheek I told my dad to start his own shipping company


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## iowa (Nov 26, 2012)

No I don't. But you put plenty of fragile stickers on it. And from my experience, when people see that they do the opposite! Pretty sad isn't it.


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## kingsixx (Nov 26, 2012)

Been following this thread closely. Curious to know how this is going to work out for you in terms of heat output and efficiency.

For the guy that fabricates these, what material do you use and what do they cost?


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## stihly dan (Nov 26, 2012)

Call the # on the tag. They are a must talk to. Heat output is huge. It's 20 deg out right now and it's 80 in the house. House started at 62 at 5:30. 2000 sf.


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## Naked Arborist (Nov 26, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Call the # on the tag. They are a must talk to. Heat output is huge. It's 20 deg out right now and it's 80 in the house. House started at 62 at 5:30. 2000 sf.



Is that 5:30 PM tonight?


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## stihly dan (Nov 26, 2012)

Yup, and that is with a half load of ugly's too.


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## KyleOh (Nov 26, 2012)

Not trying to be total #### but any furnace can do that imo. My half price hotblast can in about 30 minutes 1400sq. Hope it works great! Ready to see some install pics. Sucks on the shipping :mad2:


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## stihly dan (Nov 26, 2012)

I haven't had another furnace, just a stove, so I don't know. All I know is a 10 gal bucket of wood, brought up my house temp 15 plus deg, and heated some hot water too. And thats going to be it till 6 am in the morn. 
I forgot that I'm heating the basement too. So 300 sq ft on low.


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## lampmfg (Nov 27, 2012)

KyleOh said:


> Not trying to be total #### but any furnace can do that imo. My half price hotblast can in about 30 minutes 1400sq. Hope it works great! Ready to see some install pics. Sucks on the shipping :mad2:



When you factor in less then 1 g/hr of emissions and 84% efficiency *NO* other indoor forced air wood furnace can do that... I would think your hotblast furnace has an efficiency range in the 60's and requires regular chimney cleaning because of high creosote production. At a weight of about 480 lbs it is also 225+ lbs then our Vapor-Fire, which are built like tanks.


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## lampmfg (Nov 27, 2012)

kingsixx said:


> Been following this thread closely. Curious to know how this is going to work out for you in terms of heat output and efficiency.
> 
> For the guy that fabricates these, what material do you use and what do they cost?



We use high quality US steel from Louis Industries in Paynesville, MN Louis Industries. The Vapor-Fire 100 is $4,400 and the Vapor-Fire 200 is $3,900.


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## centennial60 (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm also interested in these vapor fire furnaces. I'd like to see some pictures of the inside of the fire box to see what they are doing different.


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## iowa (Nov 27, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> When you factor in less then 1 g/hr of emissions and 84% efficiency *NO* other indoor forced air wood furnace can do that... I would think your hotblast furnace has an efficiency range in the 60's and requires regular chimney cleaning because of high creosote production. At a weight of about 480 lbs it is also 225+ lbs then our Vapor-Fire, which are built like tanks.



From what I can see these are very well built. And I'm pretty picky when it comes to looking things over mechanically. I am a tool and die maker so looking at the pretty welds, kiss methods of engineering, and seeing some water jet cut-outs means they did a damn good job with these! To say they're built like tanks is an understatement.... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## sachsmo (Nov 27, 2012)

Hitzer is right down the road from me.

Them Amish know a thing or two 'bout wood heat.


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## iowa (Nov 27, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> I'm also interested in these vapor fire furnaces. I'd like to see some pictures of the inside of the fire box to see what they are doing different.



Visit here for vids and pics!
Kuuma "Smokeless" VaporFire High Efficiency Wood Gasification FurnacesFurnaces & Fantasic Sauna Stove Gallery by Lamppa Manufacturing Inc.


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## lampmfg (Nov 27, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> I'm also interested in these vapor fire furnaces. I'd like to see some pictures of the inside of the fire box to see what they are doing different.



Check out our Facebook page for a lot of pictures from our customers and our manufacturing process Lamppa Manufacturing Incorporated (Kuuma Furnaces & Sauna Stoves) - Tower, MN - Manufacturing | Facebook. I will try to take a couple of the Firebox in a few days when I get a chance. It's hard because we have been shipping as soon as they are completed to people on our list (who have been waiting patiently ) so we really don't ever have any on hand when I go to Tower once a week. Maybe Iowa could take a few and post of the fire box, before his first fire. 

If you want to learn about burning wood with a Kuuma Vapor-Fire wood furnace give my dad a call at the shop and you will learn a lot... He is much better over the phone with questions and detailed explanation because of limited computer skills.


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## centennial60 (Nov 27, 2012)

iowa said:


> Visit here for vids and pics!
> Kuuma "Smokeless" VaporFire High Efficiency Wood Gasification FurnacesFurnaces & Fantasic Sauna Stove Gallery by Lamppa Manufacturing Inc.



I've looked at the pictures on their website but didn't see any Firebox pics besides one taken from the door opening. Iowa, If you get a chance would you be able to take a couple pictures of the inside of the Firebox? Especially the top.


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## stihly dan (Nov 27, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> I'm also interested in these vapor fire furnaces. I'd like to see some pictures of the inside of the fire box to see what they are doing different.



Not to speak out of turn, for the kumma guy,s. But I don't think its the fire box thats the big difference. Yes the mass of brick and ceramic lining is a factor. What makes it different in my opinion, is the computerized, motor driven combustion air control. To keep the fire box at a set temp all the time until there is no more fuel.

Hey Garrett, could you pm me with the actual firebox temps 1,2,3, are trying to achieve. That would be cool info to know.


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## lampmfg (Nov 27, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Not to speak out of turn, for the kumma guy,s. But I don't think its the fire box thats the big difference. Yes the mass of brick and ceramic lining is a factor. What makes it different in my opinion, is the computerized, motor driven combustion air control. To keep the fire box at a set temp all the time until there is no more fuel.
> 
> Hey Garrett, could you pm me with the actual firebox temps 1,2,3, are trying to achieve. That would be cool info to know.



You are correct... I will ask my and see what I can find out for you.


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## iowa (Nov 27, 2012)

Dad and I got the furnace in the basement! I took all the brick out beforehand. But holy smokes! What a monster! 

Now I wait for plumbing guys to hook up the ductwork. They're tied up this week he said. So I'm at a stand still until they finish up.


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## stihly dan (Nov 27, 2012)

Plumbing guy's for duct work?


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## iowa (Nov 27, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Plumbing guy's for duct work?



Yes. Plumbing and heating guys.


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## iowa (Nov 27, 2012)

Pics of inside the burn chamber.


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## iowa (Nov 27, 2012)

Pic


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## stihly dan (Nov 27, 2012)

I don't see any water tank. What are you going to do with the coil?


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## centennial60 (Nov 27, 2012)

Thanks for the pics Iowa. Thats a lot of fire brick!


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## stihly dan (Nov 27, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> Thanks for the pics Iowa. Thats a lot of fire brick!



With ceramic lining behind that.


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## iowa (Nov 28, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> I don't see any water tank. What are you going to do with the coil?



Why do I need a water tank next to my furnace?

The hot water coil is for my hot water heater. It's a preheat. I will plumb it in line.


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## iowa (Nov 28, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> Thanks for the pics Iowa. Thats a lot of fire brick!



No problem!! The pics with the secondary burn area is right above the door. I just turned my phone upside down and snapped a pic. But you can see how the burn chamber is built.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 28, 2012)

iowa said:


> Pics of inside the burn chamber.



Completely insulated firebox...interesting. Obviously using a secondary heat exchanger. Is that the exhaust hole in the top of the firebox? Can't be more than what, like 3"? Man, I would think that would mean a face full of smoke when reloading, I'm sure it's fine, but an exhaust hole that small goes against common practice! I guess that's why they're gettin uncommon results, huh?! 

Waiting for the duct work to get done is gonna be tough! I had a hard time waiting and that was during the summer!

What's the deal with you and snake boy, you guys yanking our chains or you gotcha an AS stalker? :msp_unsure:


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## iowa (Dec 4, 2012)

All ductwork will be in by tonight!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 4, 2012)

iowa said:


> All ductwork will be in by tonight!


So you'll be blowing smoke by tonight? :msp_thumbup: (or not, as the case may be) :msp_biggrin:


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## iowa (Dec 4, 2012)

Not tonight. It's too warm out! I have to put in stove pipe and my dad will wire it!


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## stihly dan (Dec 4, 2012)

And why was that not already done? Its been there for a few day's now. Lucky for the heat wave.


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## iowa (Dec 4, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> And why was that not already done? Its been there for a few day's now. Lucky for the heat wave.



They were really busy. Several guys got the flu. And the main reason is the guy who started it had a baby today. 
I'm in no hurry now. It's to be in the 50s through mid Dec! But I am really excited to try it out.


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

Not the ductwork. The wiring, and flue.


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## iowa (Dec 5, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Not the ductwork. The wiring, and flue.



I didn't want the guys wrecking the wiring or knocking the flue piping around. 

It's all done now! How's smells like burndt paint. Yuk.


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

Nice, so you have a small fire going then.


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## iowa (Dec 5, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Nice, so you have a small fire going then.



Yup! Lotta heat! Lol.


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

Do you have the coil installed already? If so, may want to remove it untill its time to hook it up.


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## iowa (Dec 5, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Do you have the coil installed already? If so, may want to remove it untill its time to hook it up.



Yes. It's in there. Will it get messed up? Rut row.


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

I think it may melt. They stress not to fire untill its full of water and free of air. The braze melts at around 1400 deg.


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## iowa (Dec 5, 2012)

Shhhh. It ain't gonna melt! Lol.


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

Did you get the schematics yet? If you put the fan on high, should keep it cool enough to take it out.


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## iowa (Dec 5, 2012)

75 degrees. I turned it to 74. Kinda warm in here. Been used to crappy proPAIN heat and 70 deg house. 

Thanks Laampa!


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

I haven't used the T-stat yet. Only use it to see what the temp is in the house. May unwire it.


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## iowa (Dec 5, 2012)

Maybe a dumb question. But why would you unhook the thermostat?


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## stihly dan (Dec 5, 2012)

Don't ever need it. Load some wood in. The low speed fan kicks in and the temps fly past the T-stat set point. Its been a month and t-stat has never kicked on when there is fuel in the furnace.


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## lampmfg (Dec 5, 2012)

iowa said:


> 75 degrees. I turned it to 74. Kinda warm in here. Been used to crappy proPAIN heat and 70 deg house.
> 
> Thanks Laampa!



Told you it would be worth the wait...:msp_biggrin:


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## iowa (Dec 6, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> Told you it would be worth the wait...:msp_biggrin:



OH. I knew it would be well worth it!!

So I burned a total of 5 sticks of wood last night. At 5:30pm I put in 4 sticks of wood to start it up. By 7pm it was 76 in the house. 77 at 10pm when I went to bed I loaded one stick of wood in it for the night. I got up at 6am it was 73 in the house and a nice pile of coals. Raked them around and to the grate. Put 3 pieces in for the day. LOL. It won't need it but I'm sure the wife and kids will enjoy the warm house while getting ready this morning!!! 

Maybe next week I'll be able to add more than 3 sticks of wood at a time. Suppose to be in the 40s as a high and 20s for lows.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 6, 2012)

iowa said:


> OH. I knew it would be well worth it!!
> 
> So I burned a total of 5 sticks of wood last night. At 5:30pm I put in 4 sticks of wood to start it up. By 7pm it was 76 in the house. 77 at 10pm when I went to bed I loaded one stick of wood in it for the night. I got up at 6am it was 73 in the house and a nice pile of coals. Raked them around and to the grate. Put 3 pieces in for the day. LOL. It won't need it but I'm sure the wife and kids will enjoy the warm house while getting ready this morning!!!
> 
> Maybe next week I'll be able to add more than 3 sticks of wood at a time. Suppose to be in the 40s as a high and 20s for lows.


WOW!
When you say "sticks" what do you mean exactly? Sticks like what momma beat us with as kids, sticks like the dog likes to carry around, or sticks like "rounds."

Btw, what are you heating, size and insulation wise?

It be nice if winter would come and stay, huh? This back and forth is enough to drive a wood burner nutty(er)!


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## iowa (Dec 6, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> Told you it would be worth the wait...:msp_biggrin:





brenndatomu said:


> WOW!
> When you say "sticks" what do you mean exactly? Sticks like what momma beat us with as kids, sticks like the dog likes to carry around, or sticks like "rounds."
> 
> Btw, what are you heating, size and insulation wise?
> ...



These were all 4-6" splits of white oak approx 18" long. 

I am heating a 3000sq ft house with a walk out basement. I have 1521sq ft upstairs and same in basement. We bought the house new in 04' and it is very well insulated. I have 20-24" of blown insulation in the attic. 

Yes. I wished the weather would figure out what it wanted to do. I am happy that it's been mild since I just got the furnace hooked up and running last night and it's nearly mid dec.


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## Constrictor (Dec 6, 2012)

iowa said:


> These were all 4-6" splits of white oak approx 18" long.
> 
> I am heating a 3000sq ft house with a walk out basement. I have 1521sq ft upstairs and same in basement. We bought the house new in 04' and it is very well insulated. I have 20-24" of blown insulation in the attic.
> 
> Yes. I wished the weather would figure out what it wanted to do. I am happy that it's been mild since I just got the furnace hooked up and running last night and it's nearly mid dec.



Brent, I told you you needed to get a new modern stove. Now, lets see who of us uses less wood!
I have 7 years of wood split and stacked, and now im getting ready to move!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lampmfg (Dec 6, 2012)

Constrictor said:


> Brent, I told you you needed to get a new modern stove. Now, lets see who of us uses less wood!
> I have 7 years of wood split and stacked, and now im getting ready to move!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I may be partisan but my money is on the Kuuma!! Let's not forget about less emissions (no smoke) either.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 6, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> I may be partisan but my money is on the Kuuma!! Let's not forget about less emissions (no smoke) either.



Come on now guys, with all due respect, while I think your furnaces are well built and the control system is WAY cool, what you mean to say is "very little visible smoke," right? I'm mean we are burning wood here, that's not medical grade oxygen coming out the stack.


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## iowa (Dec 6, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> Come on now guys, with all due respect, while I think your furnaces are well built and the control system is WAY cool, what you mean to say is "very little visible smoke," right? I'm mean we are burning wood here, that's not medical grade oxygen coming out the stack.



I dunno. But walking out to my truck this morning smelled SOOOO dang good!!!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 6, 2012)

iowa said:


> I dunno. But walking out to my truck this morning smelled SOOOO dang good!!!



chimney sniffer


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## iowa (Dec 6, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> chimney sniffer



I can't help it. My episode of "Intervention" is going to air on AE next week.


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## lampmfg (Dec 6, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> Come on now guys, with all due respect, while I think your furnaces are well built and the control system is WAY cool, what you mean to say is "very little visible smoke," right? I'm mean we are burning wood here, that's not medical grade oxygen coming out the stack.



Correct, but what I really mean to say is proven test results under 1 gr/hr hour of emissions. This is why our furnace is so unique because we are burning wood. I haven't seen any other independent test results under 5 gr/hr of emissions on indoor wood furnaces. I would love to see the actual test results from Caddy, Yukon, etc, proving different but they are no where to be found.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 6, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> Correct, but what I really mean to say is proven test results under 1 gr/hr hour of emissions. This is why our furnace is so unique because we are burning wood. I haven't seen any other independent test results under 5 gr/hr of emissions on indoor wood furnaces. *I would love to see the actual test results from Caddy, Yukon, etc,* proving different but they are no where to be found.



Yup, I would too, just for curiosity sake.


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## centennial60 (Dec 6, 2012)

I have the Yukon SJ my guess is the particulate emissions from it are higher than 5g/hr. On average but it is possible to achieve a smokeless (visible) burn.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 6, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> I have the Yukon SJ my guess is the particulate emissions from it are higher than 5g/hr. On average but it is possible to achieve a smokeless (visible) burn.[/QUOTE
> 
> I acheived "smokeless" burn in the Yukon Husky yesterday. Had 'er shut down because of warm weather, but it cooled off during the night and yesterday stayed cool. So, by the time I got home from work the house was cool enough to build a fire. About 1/2 hour later I left to go to my sisters house, the furnace was still in "high burn" mode, no visible smoke out the chimney. :msp_thumbup:
> 
> But I'm with ya on the g/hr, I'm saying that measured over a full burn cycle, the Kuuma boys would "smoke" (pun intended) the others!


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## lampmfg (Dec 6, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> I have the Yukon SJ my guess is the particulate emissions from it are higher than 5g/hr. On average but it is possible to achieve a smokeless (visible) burn.



Just from seeing the design they definitely would be over the 5 gr/hr emissions. However, I agree that they can achieve a smokeless visible burn for awhile during the burn cycle. You wouldn't believe the crazy equipment Intertek used when we underwent the testing process and everything that they could detect.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 6, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> Correct, but what I really mean to say is proven test results under 1 gr/hr hour of emissions. This is why our furnace is so unique because we are burning wood. I haven't seen any other independent test results under 5 gr/hr of emissions on indoor wood furnaces. I would love to see the actual test results from Caddy, Yukon, etc, proving different but they are no where to be found.



Easy there big boy.... Is your 1 gr/hr a weighted average on multiple burning or the best reading? If you were indeed meeting 1 gr/hr on weighted average, congratulations... But I need to ask, if that is the case why not certify your furnace to EPA standards? Mmmmm? Perhaps because there is more to it than just some burn cycle and emissions, right?

Our Mini Caddy and Caddy is certified to the EPA wood stove standards of below 7.6 gr/hr. This is actually quite hard to meet since the wood stove standard was designed for the smaller fireboxes and it is quite difficult to pass for a large firebox such as a furnace. The Max Caddy is certified to CSA B415 which is likely to become the new emmission and efficiency standards for furnace for EPA. This is also quite stringent.

So I tell you what. You show me your EPA certification (wood and/or CSA B415) then I'll show you mine!

Finally, lab burning is one thing but the difference of 2-5 g/hr in real life burning is insignificant. Smoke will no come out of the pipe either way. You are not the only one who produces smokeless furnaces. Just saying. We were the first one to come to market 8 years ago with an EPA 'smokeless' furnace and only last year has other players coming onto the market. (Not Kuuma yet)

Finally, we dont want to be compared to uncertified furnaces such as Yukon and others. While they no doubt make decent products, the certification process ensures the consumer knows we have passed stringent and difficult test to achieve this. That's why there's no incentive to post lab results since we met certifications guaranteeing performance. We do not do so for any of our other biomass burning appliances and neither does any industry players *that meets a standard. * However, I can see why Kuuma would need to do so in this instance.

We've been making wood furnaces for 33 years. We currently 'only' make 3 wood furnaces and 1 pellet furnace. We also make fireplaces, wood & pellet stoves, pellet furnaces, chimney's etc... We have our own level 4 certified lab (only one in the industry) with dedicated lab technicians so we do know a little bit about wood burning.

PS. I never ran your product down. I wonder why you feel at liberty to question ours...


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## lampmfg (Dec 6, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Easy there big boy.... Is your 1 gr/hr a weighted average on multiple burning or the best reading on your best burning? If you were indeed meeting 1 gr/hr on weighted average, congratulations... But I need to ask, if that is the case why not certify your furnace to EPA standards? Mmmmm? Perhaps because there is more to it than just some burn cycle and emissions, right?
> 
> Our Mini Caddy and Caddy is certified to the EPA wood stove standards of below 7.6 gr/hr. This is actually quite hard to meet since the wood stove standard was designed for the smaller fireboxes and it is quite difficult to pass for a large firebox such as a furnace. The Max Caddy is certified to CSA B415 which is likely to become the new emmission and efficiency standards for furnace for EPA. This is also quite stringent.
> 
> ...



Never ran your product down and I just stated that I would love to see the actual test results seeing how other furnace would compare. 

Here is a link to the completed CAN/CSA B415.1-10 “Performance Testing of Solid-Fuel-Burning Heating Appliances”, which is probably the same exact test you had done for Canadian certification. If you would like to make your all your test results public like we have I'm sure many others would be interested in viewing the information as well. 

But I need to ask, if that is the case why not certify your furnace to EPA standards? Because there is no EPA certification for wood furnaces in the US or we would. There is a EPA certification for stoves but not furnaces, but you already know that. 

Sorry for comparing you to Yukon because I that was not my intent (only was trying to give examples of other manufacturers/free pr). I understand and hope the rest of the public does as well that your certification puts you on a whole different level than other furnaces who haven't completed any kind of product testing. One has to be pretty confident in their product to shell out the cash necessary to complete the testing process (especially one that has less than 10 employees). :msp_rolleyes:


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## Fyrebug (Dec 6, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> But I need to ask, if that is the case why not certify your furnace to EPA standards? Because there is no EPA certification for wood furnaces in the US or we would. There is a EPA certification for stoves but not furnaces, but you already know that.



My point exactly... If you manufactured dump trucks and could get the mileage of a VW Jetta TDI, would you not spend the expense to test to the car standards? What would it tell your consumers? That you have done the impossible, That's what!!!

Basically, we tested to wood stoves because we could... The reason there was no EPA standards for wood furnace is because none of them could meet the stove standards. Being able to take a large furnace fire box and make it as efficient and clean burning as a small stove is a feather in our cap that no one has been able to replicate until last year. It's a bragging right we've worked hard to accomplish.

Also very few people can look at lab results and understand what it means. I have seen some MFG claim high efficiencies and low emmission on their best burn out of 4 (typically high burn). Unless you knew how to interpret the results you may not know they failed miserably the rest of the tests. Typically you will see them advertised as "tested to... EPA/CSA". In other words they were tested to these standards but did not pass. Once you pass and are certified only then are we allowed to use the EPA and/or CSA logo's on all our marketing.

While the average consumer may not understand lab results they certainly understand certifications.


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## iowa (Dec 6, 2012)

Anyways. I bought a kuuma vaporfire because I believe its the best on the market. At the end of the season I'll snap a pic of my stove pipe through my damper. Right now its clean. I've only burned 8 pieces of wood though. But at its hottest last night my stove pipe was maybe 200 degrees. What does this mean? Means the kuuma extracted all usable energy from my hard earned wood and produced good heat without creosote! My other furnace would have had creasote running from the seams after a night of running. And that's on the same wood that's been sitting 2yrs! 

Kids and I filled my 6x8 trailer full of wood and brought some in. The way this weather is it should last until Feb! Bahhhhh


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## Constrictor (Dec 7, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> I may be partisan but my money is on the Kuuma!! Let's not forget about less emissions (no smoke) either.



Iowa and myself started the wood stove journey at the same time 4 years ago and I started right off with an EPA certified wood stove and I've been trying to get him to upgrade ever since. My stove doesn't smoke. Why would he use less wood than me?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Easy there big boy.... Is your 1 gr/hr a weighted average on multiple burning or the best reading? If you were indeed meeting 1 gr/hr on weighted average, congratulations... But I need to ask, if that is the case why not certify your furnace to EPA standards? Mmmmm? Perhaps because there is more to it than just some burn cycle and emissions, right?
> 
> Our Mini Caddy and Caddy is certified to the EPA wood stove standards of below 7.6 gr/hr. This is actually quite hard to meet since the wood stove standard was designed for the smaller fireboxes and it is quite difficult to pass for a large firebox such as a furnace. The Max Caddy is certified to CSA B415 which is likely to become the new emmission and efficiency standards for furnace for EPA. This is also quite stringent.
> 
> ...



Boy you guys are lucky that CK hasn't been around here lately, the fur would really be flyin now! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## iowa (Dec 7, 2012)

Ya. Where is Crappie Keith!


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

iowa said:


> Ya. Where is Crappie Keith!



I have heard from a pretty good source that he doesn't work for Yukon anymore at this time.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

iowa said:


> Ya. Where is Crappie Keith!



I think the Kuuma boys recruited him and are keepin it on the DL! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## iowa (Dec 7, 2012)

If you can't beat em, join em!


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

Constrictor said:


> Iowa and myself started the wood stove journey at the same time 4 years ago and I started right off with an EPA certified wood stove and I've been trying to get him to upgrade ever since. My stove doesn't smoke. Why would he use less wood than me?



This would come down to efficiency if all variables are the same (size, insulation, temperature). An overall efficiency in the 80's like we have is very high when burning wood. A lot of people don't understand combustion efficiency, but after reading that link you can see that with a proven combustion efficiency over 99% we basically extract all of the useful fuel out of each piece of wood.


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

For manufacturers to run and have their woodburning furnaces tested to EPA standards that are designed for woodburning stoves is rather foolish and a waste of money. I am sure we'd all agree that furnaces and stoves are different. Woodburning stoves have much smaller fireboxes, usually no blower systems (at most a small blower), and are made to heat smaller areas. Whereas woodburning furances have larger fireboxes, larger blower systems and are designed to heat entire homes and buildings. Do you think a semi-truck and a car should be tested to the same standards? Try parallel parking a semi truck the way you would a car for a test. They are designed for different purposes and have different physical makeups. The same goes for furances vs. stoves.

The EPA test for woodburning furnaces won't be in place until 2014-15. All indications to date are that the EPA is smart enough to know that the tests they will require for furnaces will be different than those currently used for stoves.

Also, when woodburning stoves are tested they use 2 x 4's and 4 x 4's of Doug fir that are cleated with spacers that are nailed to them. No one in their right mind uses cleated wood in a real world situation, so it's very foolish to test furnaces differently than the normal burning procedure for them. As an example, would you pull up to a gas station and fill up with regular gas in your car if the manufacturer's instructions specify only unleaded gas? The vehicle would not operate or perform the way the manufacturer designed it to work.

Our Vapor-Fire furnaces are designed to be loaded with regular with stick firewood after the coals have been pulled forward and the result is a clean front to back burn. That's why the emissions are less than 1 gr./hr.

Daryl Lamppa
Lamppa Manufacturing


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## iowa (Dec 7, 2012)

I was told by some idiot that a wood stove and wood furnace are the same!?!?! I've never seen a wood stove with a big firebox, squirrel cage fan, outer cabinet, heat exchangers, and plenum. I said that's like comparing a car to an airplane. They both use a fuel but do completely different things. I use my furnace like an airplane to heat(travel) my entire house (world). I would use a stove to heat(travel) a small room(small area).

What really gets me is the guys who try to use a stove as a furnace!!! LOL. And I had my furnace shipped to my work. So it sat here a couple days. You should have heard all the comments from guys. 75% didn't understand how it worked after they told me exactly how it worked and what it was! One guy was very adament about telling me the squirrel cage fan was a great idea to stoke the fire! Another said it looked like a nice OWB! But was wondering why it was so small. After a day of trying to explain how it worked I got sick of repeating myself. I just agreed with them and said "yup" a lot!


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## WidowMaker (Dec 7, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> I have heard from a pretty good source that he doesn't work for Yukon anymore at this time.



======

Google his name, seems as he may have stepped on his "Tally Wacker"



Maybe building a new home in the next year or, and I think I have found my wood furnance...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

WidowMaker said:


> ======
> 
> Google his name, seems as he may have stepped on his "Tally Wacker"
> 
> ...


And?...


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## WidowMaker (Dec 7, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> And?...




===

And, 

The Vapor 200, seems like a no brainer to me. 

I was pretty well set on a Blaze King,
but this thread has just about changed my mind...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

WidowMaker said:


> ===
> 
> And,
> 
> ...



Betcha a plate of Christmas cookies this reply gets a "like" from lampmfg! :msp_biggrin:


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## WidowMaker (Dec 7, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> Betcha a plate of Christmas cookies this reply gets a "like" from lampmfg! :msp_biggrin:



====

Ya reckon? :msp_biggrin:


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

WidowMaker said:


> ====
> 
> Ya reckon? :msp_biggrin:



I'd like 1 dozen, umm, let's see, I'll go with the Christmas tree shaped ones!  (if ya run out of those, the wreath ones will be fine) :msp_biggrin:


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## MNfarmer (Dec 7, 2012)

Keith no longer works for Yukon and in fact no longer lives in Palisade. He moved south sometime this summer so that rules out the idea he is working for Lamppa Manufacturing as well. I'm sure if he was here and reading this thread it would turn into another EPA thread if anyone remembers that one!! :sword:


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## laynes69 (Dec 7, 2012)

You Kuuma boys seem pretty happy with your furnaces, can't beat that. We experience the same thing with our Caddy, it's just not computer controlled. Our Caddy takes far less wood than our old furnace, but burns longer, cleaner and produces more overall heat. Our flue temps are low, the chimney top when burning looks like a gas furnace's exhaust and the house stays warm. Anyway you slice it, having a clean burning furnace makes a huge difference. We experienced it a few years back now and wouldn't have I any other way. It's amazing how much heat these small fireboxes can produce. When I look at the size of our home, it's hard to imagine a few splits will heat the place but it happens.


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

MNfarmer said:


> Keith no longer works for Yukon and in fact no longer lives in Palisade. He moved south sometime this summer so that rules out the idea he is working for Lamppa Manufacturing as well. I'm sure if he was here and reading this thread it would turn into another EPA thread if anyone remembers that one!! :sword:



I'll never forget that one. :msp_scared:


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

MNfarmer said:


> Keith no longer works for Yukon and in fact no longer lives in Palisade. He moved south sometime this summer so that rules out the idea he is working for Lamppa Manufacturing as well. I'm sure if he was here and reading this thread it would turn into another EPA thread if anyone remembers that one!! :sword:


Musta got bored chasin those lil ole crappies around MN, decided to go to Fla. get 'im some biggins, something with teeth maybe! :msp_scared:

Yah, he's probably lurking on here under a new user name! If he is, he's gotta be ready to pop about now! Go all azzhat on everybody...:hmm3grin2orange: 

Gotta love it, I kinda miss him! I talked to him on the phone a couple times at Yukon, very knowledgeable! Didn't want to get him started on politics if ya had something else you needed to be doin anytime soon!


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> I'll never forget that one. :msp_scared:



Good grief, it was a hot one.

One thing about Keith... You could never say he was boring...

He's not changed. Saw a thread on Facebook about him. He knows how to stir a hornet's nest allright...


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

WidowMaker said:


> ===
> The Vapor 200, seems like a no brainer to me.
> 
> I was pretty well set on a Blaze King,
> but this thread has just about changed my mind...



Before you buy any kind of furnace from any MFG you should first determine your BTU load, insulation level etc... You dont want to undersize or oversize. You do it right you save money. BTW though I am deeply biased (get paid to be...) there are many good products out there besides what Kuuma and PSG despite what we tell you :msp_scared:. Do your homework and it will pay itself out in the long run.

Now If you can stomach a sales pitch... (I pay AS for the privilege after all)

Depending on the size of your house you may want to consider the Caddy or Max Caddy and since Garret at Kuuma keeps challenging me on numbers here we go.... (BTW the following does not imply anyone else product is inferior, think of it as a check list of what is important to you. )


 $4,595$3,900 + Shipping $3,269$3,900 + Shipping YesNo YesNo YesNo YesNo YesNo YesNo 1,780 CFM465 CFM YesNo YesNo YesYes YesNo 25"17" 4.23.1 90 Lbs? 85% LHV79.5% LHV .316 AVG certified.03 (1 test uncertified) Limited Lifetime25 Years 2 Years90 Days NoYes 1 to Lifetime dependingNone CSA B415.1-10Tested to CSA, no certifications Door with Glass & Air WashYesNo
*[td]Specs[/td]
[td]Max Caddy[/td]
[td]Vapor Fire 200[/td]*
*[td]Retail[/td]*
*[td]Retail without Blower (Add on)[/td]*
*[td]Stand Alone with Oi/Electric[/td]*
*[td]Oil Burner Option[/td]*
*[td]Electric Element Option[/td]*
*[td]Water Tank Pre-Heater Option[/td]*
*[td]Fresh Air Option[/td]*
*[td]Cold Air Return Right/Left/Top[/td]*
*[td]Blower[/td]*
*[td]6 speed self adusting Blower[/td]*
*[td]Thermostatically Controlled[/td]*
*[td]Blower Speed Controlled By Probe[/td]*
*[td]AC Ready[/td]*
*[td]Max Log Lenght[/td]*
*[td]Firebox Dimension cu Ft[/td]*
*[td]Loading Capacity[/td]*
*[td]Optimum Efficiency[/td]*
*[td]Average Emmission g/MJ[/td]*
*[td]Warranty[/td]*
*[td]Warranty Electrical[/td]*
*[td]Return furnace for repairs[/td]*
*[td]Moving Parts Warranty[/td]*
*[td]Emmissions Certifications[/td]*
The Caddy is similar in sizes and specs to the Vapor Fire 200 and retails with blower at $3,699


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## stihly dan (Dec 7, 2012)

Are those specs comparing the max caddy or the caddy, to the 200. Because the retail price you gave seems to have a $900 discrepancy.


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

This is fun because the actual VF-200 test results were as follows:

6/12/10-Medium Burn LHV Overall Efficiency 84.4%, Combustion Efficiency 98.1%, G/MJ .01, G/Hr .45
6/13/10-Low Burn LHV Overall Efficiency 86.3%, Combustion Efficiency 98.9%, G/MJ .02, G/Hr .65 
8/04/10-High Burn LHV Overall Efficiency 82.4%, Combustion Efficiency 99.4%, G/MJ .02, G/Hr 1.0 

Let's compare apples to apples and see your signed test results (even is you just want to show us your best one ). We have all 4 test burns for the VF-200 that we had done on our website.

The first test you looked at was actually for our larger VF-100. It was just headed wrong and the correct information is right about the test date and time.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> The first test you looked at was actually for our larger VF-100. It was just headed wrong and the correct information is right about the test date and time.



Nope... _"Testing for emissions and efficiency for model VaporFire VF200 Solid Fuel Furnace" Letter report G100009193MID-005.2_


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Nope... _"Testing for emissions and efficiency for model VaporFire VF200 Solid Fuel Furnace" Letter report G100009193MID-005.2_



Look down about a paragraph were it states -Results for efficiency and emissions for model VF100. They messed up at the top and it's something that I supposed we could have changed if we are being extra technical but were honest guys up here in Tower, MN. :msp_smile:


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics” Mark Twain

Good ole’ Mark Twain, I think he knew more about wood furnaces than we do!

Garret, you cannot possibly tell me that if both you & I made dump trucks and you somehow invented one that would get 65 miles per gallons that would wouldn’t take advantage of boasting about it. You would make sure you went to EPA to certify those numbers then you would plaster that info with the EPA logo on all your marketing material.

I know for a fact you would do so because... you already do it! You went to a lab and did 2 test (for certification you need a minimum of 4 or more), then you use the best results from one of the test (unlike us who must use the weighted average of multiple test (8 in our case) with and without blowers) to boast how good your products are. So please, spare me...

For the rest of you whose eyes are glazing about this hair splitting, here is what it means in real life...

*Q&A*

*What’s the fuss all about?*

EPA is an emission testing certification (pollution). In order to reduce your emissions you have to get rid of them. In order to do so you burn them (ie you burn the smoke). The advantage of this is it gives you a cleaner burn (no creosote or very little), better efficiencies since now you burn all the fuel.

Those MFG who cries “No Fair, EPA testing is for Wood stoves not for furnace” are... jealous. EPA states for wood stoves you cannot emit more than 7.6 grams per hour of emission. Think about it, this is very easy to pass. You design a wood stove that can only burn a match stick and you immediately pass! However this gets more and more complicated the bigger the firebox gets. You basically have the same standard if you have a wood stove that burn a stick at a time than if you designed one that can burn a cord at a time! Eventually the physics of it become impossible. 

That is why the dump truck analogy is very much valid. We’ve done close to the impossible. So please, let me brag about it if you don’t mind. 

The new CSA standard remedies this as the results are stated in grams per MegaJoules (or volume of pollution by energy released) which is more flexible and adapts to the firebox dimension. 

*In real life what does it mean?*

The matter of the fact the difference between 1 grams per hour to 5 or 6 grams per hours in real life burning is insignificant. Burning wood in a lab has nothing to do with what real people do in real life. 

Lab burning is done with individuals who have decades of experience burning wood everyday in a lab setting. They must follow a strict and tedious protocol, weight and measure moisture content of every single piece of wood. It’s part science, art, lots of experience and a dash of voodoo in order to squeeze the best possible results for the customer (ie the MFG).

You and I would blow these tests out with improper start up procedure, a semi-moist log, improper installations and many other variables. 

*So EPA/CSA certification and MFG claims of low emissions and efficiencies mean nothing?*

Actually, a MFG who bothers to go through all this fuss must spend an awful lot of time in design, testing and prototyping in order to get those results. In real life, those high-efficiencies furnaces (I’ll put Kuuma in that category) will still outperform anything else in the market. 

As long as you burn dry wood, these types of appliances will burn the smoke, produce higher efficiencies and longer burn time.
I hope these clarified things somewhat.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Are those specs comparing the max caddy or the caddy, to the 200. Because the retail price you gave seems to have a $900 discrepancy.



Max Caddy. But I just figured out I have it backward. I should have compared the Caddy to the VP200.

However, we still look good. We're about the same price with the Max Caddy and VP200 when you the the VP shipping into account.

We look even better with the Max Caddy versus the VP100


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## lampmfg (Dec 7, 2012)

We posted every single test that we had done on our website. We are small and the testing was very expensive. When I say small I'm not lying when I say that my dad paid himself poverty level wages until the last 3-4 years. We just wanted facts to prove that we manufacture the BEST indoor wood furnace on the market. 

Here are the number on the front page of our website:

.45 Gr/HR. Emissions
.01 Gr/MJ. Emissions
99.4% Combustion Efficiency
84% Overall Efficiency
99% Smokeless Burns

For you to say we just posted the best is not correct. Otherwise I could have posted 86.3% overall efficiency which is > than the 85% on your website. 

I told my dad a few times to do the EPA wood stove testing and you saw his response from last night.

P.S. The signed test numbers don't lie especially when we have to take everyone's word on their numbers and don't have test results that everyone can compare.


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## stihly dan (Dec 7, 2012)

Props on your ability to stay cool and collected, not knocking anyones product to promote yours. Crappie Keith could have used some of that ability. And I liked him. Are you on the sponsor board at the top of the page? I haven't seen it.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Props on your ability to stay cool and collected, not knocking anyones product to promote yours. Crappie Keith could have used some of that ability. And I liked him. Are you on the sponsor board at the top of the page? I haven't seen it.



I'm a sponsor but there's different levels. I dont have a logo at the top of the page.


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## iowa (Dec 7, 2012)

There's a few "no's" in that list above that needs to be changed to "yes". My kuuma has a water preheat and uses a thermostat. Also I think your cfm on the fan rating is off. This has a variable speed drive fan. Up to 1200 cfm. 

A lot of the other stuff is useless IMHO. Who wants to burn oil, gas, etc? Isn't your unit an add-on to a gas furnace in existence? I'm here to burn wood. Screw gas and oil!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

iowa said:


> There's a few "no's" in that list above that needs to be changed to "yes". My kuuma has a water preheat and uses a thermostat. Also I think your cfm on the fan rating is off. This has a variable speed drive fan. Up to 1200 cfm.
> 
> A lot of the other stuff is useless IMHO. *Who wants to burn oil, gas, etc? Isn't your unit an add-on to a gas furnace in existence?* I'm here to burn wood. Screw gas and oil!



But if it is not an add-on situation, like mine, most insurance co's require gas/oil/electric as your "primary" heat. Not to mention what would I do if we're away for a couple days and didn't have the oil burner? The multi-fuel furnace was just the most elegant solution for me. 

BTW, I plan to burn VERY little oil!


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

iowa said:


> There's a few "no's" in that list above that needs to be changed to "yes". My kuuma has a water preheat and uses a thermostat. Also I think your cfm on the fan rating is off. This has a variable speed drive fan. Up to 1200 cfm.
> 
> A lot of the other stuff is useless IMHO. Who wants to burn oil, gas, etc? Isn't your unit an add-on to a gas furnace in existence? I'm here to burn wood. Screw gas and oil!



Garret, I went with the info on your web site and installation Manual. If any of my info is incorrect let me know and I'll adjust. 

Wood/Oil/Electric combos are good for new home construction or if you dont want to be bothered with 2 furnaces or if you dont have the room for 2 furnaces.


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## stihly dan (Dec 7, 2012)

OK guy's, let calmer minds interject. Which would be me, now that the handle of whiskey is getten low. Mr. psg Caddy. Your units seem well made and efficient, without using one, I wood still feel safe saying that it's 1 of the best on the market. IMHO from NH. There was 3 things that made me go KUUMA over PSG. #1 American made. (Canada would be second in my opinion) Save local buy local. #2 small company over large co. I have yet to talk to, or e-mail, anyone from kuuma that is not a family owner. #3 The computerized control. This is the future, now. I will bet you a plate of cookies, that psg will be using a computer on there's with in the next 5 yr's.

Also, it is not fair comparing a large companies Ability for tests, and over all info, sales brochure, and marketing in general. Against a co. that has ten employee's working 6 or 7 day's a week. There is less time and money for all the Test's and info advertising. They have no dealer network, or many lines of different name product.\

I can't even say how well the Kuuma works for I have nothing to compare it to, except the Epa wood stove that I was using. The heat and ease of operation is a god send. The computerized damper is the cat's a$$. Blows the stove out of the water. Almost like they don't use the same fuel.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 7, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> OK guy's, let calmer minds interject. Which would be me, now that the handle of whiskey is getten low. Mr. psg Caddy. Your units seem well made and efficient, without using one, I wood still feel safe saying that it's 1 of the best on the market. IMHO from NH. There was 3 things that made me go KUUMA over PSG. #1 American made. (Canada would be second in my opinion) Save local buy local. #2 small company over large co. I have yet to talk to, or e-mail, anyone from kuuma that is not a family owner. #3 The computerized control. This is the future, now. I will bet you a plate of cookies, that psg will be using a computer on there's with in the next 5 yr's.
> 
> Also, it is not far comparing a large companies Ability for tests, and over all info, sales brochure, and marketing in general. Against a co. that has ten employee's working 6 or 7 day's a week. There is less time and money for all the Test's and info advertising. They have no dealer network, or many lines of different name product.\
> 
> I can't even say how well the Kuuma works for I have nothing to compare it to, except the Epa wood stove that I was using. The heat and ease of operation is a god send. The computerized damper is the cat's a$$. Blows the stove out of the water. Almost like they don't use the same fuel.



Agree with everything you say except the Max Caddy has had a very sophisticated computer for the past 4 years... How else do you control the Kick in Points (KIP) for multi-speed blower, AC connection, bio fuels etc... You can download the manual and see for yourself here...http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=563&Page=description

I also agree with small companies. That's how both of our countries were made. Small companies hopefully become bigger companies. 

Notice I was happy to leave this thread entirely alone until I was drawn into it by some unfortunate comments or shall I say misleading comments about our products. "Let sleeping dogs lie" would have bee a good policy here on the part of Kuuma.


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## iowa (Dec 7, 2012)

It is amazing to put a few pieces of wood and turn your home into a sauna! Lol. I was just telling the wife, welcome to your new sauna that you've always wanted, now get in your bikini! I keep going down to the basement and watch it. But it gets rather boring. There's nothing to do! Other than wait to put more wood in. Which is few and far between right now. 

Tonight we have really heavy fog. The air is extremely dense. It's drafting just fine.


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## stihly dan (Dec 7, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Agree with everything you say except the Max Caddy has had a very sophisticated computer for the past 4 years... How else do you control the Kick in Points (KIP) for multi-speed blower, AC connection, bio fuels etc... You can download the manual and see for yourself here...Wood furnaces : 3 - MAX CADDY - Wood or combination furnace (oil and/or electric)
> 
> I also agree with small companies. That's how both of our countries were made. Small companies hopefully become bigger companies.
> 
> Notice I was happy to leave this thread entirely alone until I was drawn into it by some unfortunate comments or shall I say misleading comments about our products. "Let sleeping dogs lie" would have bee a good policy here on the part of Kuuma.



Sorry, I did not realize yours had a computer. Could have sworn you mentioned not having one in some post or another. My bad, And I do swear alot. The one good thing that happens with these threads, no matter how bad things may get. Several thousand people get an education on many points of wood burning.

PS If you want to send me a free caddy, I will do a side by side comparason on how they stack up. I am an hvac tech so you know it will be accurate and honest. And I love free stuff AY.


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## iowa (Dec 7, 2012)

Here is the reload for the night. I got home at 430pm and started a new fire and put 3 sticks of wood in it. House has been a constant 76. Just done catching up on Goldrush and reloaded it. Pulled the ashes forward and put coals on the grate. Stacked a few pieces and I'm ready for bed. 1030pm.


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## lampmfg (Dec 8, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Agree with everything you say except the Max Caddy has had a very sophisticated computer for the past 4 years... How else do you control the Kick in Points (KIP) for multi-speed blower, AC connection, bio fuels etc... You can download the manual and see for yourself here...Wood furnaces : 3 - MAX CADDY - Wood or combination furnace (oil and/or electric)
> 
> I also agree with small companies. That's how both of our countries were made. Small companies hopefully become bigger companies.
> 
> Notice I was happy to leave this thread entirely alone until I was drawn into it by some unfortunate comments or shall I say misleading comments about our products. "Let sleeping dogs lie" would have bee a good policy here on the part of Kuuma.



We have done some research on their computer and ours servers a different purpose in furnace operation. I'm glad that Fryebug chimed in. Nothing wrong with getting the facts out there. I know what I like to look for when I make an actual purchase and that's an apples to apples comparison. I know that we have done our part to make this happen. 

I don't think I said anything misleading. Just stated the facts about none of our competitors actually posting their test results likes we have.


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## laynes69 (Dec 8, 2012)

I think Kuuma had no choice but to post results for emission testing. Being neither EPA or CSA, there had to be a way to prove it's clean burning technology. Companies like Yukon couldn't do this or possibly tried and failed, which resulted in many arguments. There's hundreds of EPA certified stoves, and here recently a few EPA certified furnaces along with CSA furnaces hit the market. None of them post their test results, they just advertise their results or state which certifications have been met. Customers like you and I know if that badge contains the EPA/CSA certifications it's a far cry above others that don't have this. To split hairs over a few grams of smoke is a moot point. 

Both Kuuma and PSG have the technology to put out a clean burning furnace. I've seen the same benefits and results upgrading our old furnace as did the users of a Kuuma. It's all in what's wanted from the consumer. I enjoy the view of the fire through the glass door, the heat exchanger that takes a minute to clean, and the furnaces ability to keep the house within range of the thermostat (no wide temp swings). One of the reasons why I didn't buy a Kuuma was it's lack of it's EPA certification (no offense!), same reason why I wouldn't consider a Yukon. I wanted to be ready in case of a ban on exempt furnaces, which may not be far off. Choosing what I did lowered wood consumption considerably and in return our chimney stays much cleaner and we burn no fossil fuel. Our home is a large 2 story Victorian with 10' ceiling both down and upstairs. We have 42 windows and a 1200 sq ft basement under the house. It's well insulated, but a little drafty. We burn less wood than someone I know heating a trailer with a wondercoal stove or someone with a 1200 sqft home with a englander furnace. Longer burns, just better all around. Even those with stoves we use less, which they're in the same area so climate isn't different. Yeah we get a little creosote, buts there's no chance for a chimney fire. We brush twice a season and there's very little there, compared to the bucket fulls we use to see with the old furnace. 

In the end, it's whatever appeals to the buyer. Just like vehicles, there's many options to choose from. I don't think someone could go wrong from either unit, there's to right or wrong choice. Even though the Kuuma's test results are impressive, not having a certification will stop some customers from considering their units, or stop sales into certain states. When they acquire that, things will be much better for them. I enjoy these threads when they're in good taste, and not all out bashing. It allows others to see both sides.


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## reaperman (Dec 8, 2012)

Computer controlled wood burning units scare me. Why? Because since the micro processor was invented they have been sticking them into just about every product from A to Z. Are the products better as a result? Some are, some not. But the longevity of most products on the market these days seem to be diminished as a result. One example, our washing machine was purchased about 6 years ago when we built our home. The washer replaced a old maytag that was at least 15 years old. I then gave the maytag to a guy I work with that still uses it today. The computer on my new, name brand wash machine puked out this summer. By the time I paid a service tech to diagnose the issue and replace the computer I almost had the same $$ as a new machine. Take a look at today's vehicles. Thats about all you can do is look, fixing one is out of the question. I will admit the computers on cars do make them more efficient but come at a cost. The monitor sensors appear to be the kink in the armor. They trigger the check engine light to go on, only to find out the car is fine, but the sensor monitoring its functions puked out. 

The bottom line to me is, the mechanical part of products seem to outlast the electronic systems that operate them. A wood stove or furnace, as a whole, are sturdy, well built pieces of steel that will last decades. Adding a computer will improve its efficiency, but nobody will ever convince me that the electronics that run the system will outlast the steel that it is bolted onto. So the issue becomes a future investment in another computer sometime down the road. If troubles in the electronics erupt, who will come to diagnosis them? Computer control wood burning devices will not be able to be diagnosed by the local geek squad. Will the homeowner be able to diagnosis electrical issues and know what parts to order? And can these computer controlled furnaces be used without electronics? On the bright side, a manual damper will never fail. Unfortunately this is where we are at with today's products and as a result, its a throw away society. 

Don't get me wrong, I all for innovation and improving products and getting the most from your wood pile. Even if it means adding a computer, but I just want the computer to last as long as the system its designed to operate. I also like the fact that a wood stove can be operated without electricity, especially during power outages. Good luck to Kuuma, I'm a Minnesota boy myself and wish your company the best.


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## stihly dan (Dec 8, 2012)

I am of the opposite thinking. Should be more electronics. I would love to see an auto lite unit, that can shut itself down, and fire back up on its own. Maybe a creosote chamber that is slippery so the creosote slides down into a holder, then gets used to start the fire again.
These units can run with no electricity. You can manually operate if you have to. And very few people repair there own oil, gas, boilers and furnaces. So why dumb down the wood ones, for self repair? How cool would it be if a wood furnace could be as clean as gas, and the chimney be made of pvc.


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## lampmfg (Dec 8, 2012)

laynes69 said:


> I think Kuuma had no choice but to post results for emission testing. Being neither EPA or CSA, there had to be a way to prove it's clean burning technology. Companies like Yukon couldn't do this or possibly tried and failed, which resulted in many arguments. There's hundreds of EPA certified stoves, and here recently a few EPA certified furnaces along with CSA furnaces hit the market. None of them post their test results, they just advertise their results or state which certifications have been met. Customers like you and I know if that badge contains the EPA/CSA certifications it's a far cry above others that don't have this. To split hairs over a few grams of smoke is a moot point.
> 
> Both Kuuma and PSG have the technology to put out a clean burning furnace. I've seen the same benefits and results upgrading our old furnace as did the users of a Kuuma. It's all in what's wanted from the consumer. I enjoy the view of the fire through the glass door, the heat exchanger that takes a minute to clean, and the furnaces ability to keep the house within range of the thermostat (no wide temp swings). One of the reasons why I didn't buy a Kuuma was it's lack of it's EPA certification (no offense!), same reason why I wouldn't consider a Yukon. I wanted to be ready in case of a ban on exempt furnaces, which may not be far off. Choosing what I did lowered wood consumption considerably and in return our chimney stays much cleaner and we burn no fossil fuel. Our home is a large 2 story Victorian with 10' ceiling both down and upstairs. We have 42 windows and a 1200 sq ft basement under the house. It's well insulated, but a little drafty. We burn less wood than someone I know heating a trailer with a wondercoal stove or someone with a 1200 sqft home with a englander furnace. Longer burns, just better all around. Even those with stoves we use less, which they're in the same area so climate isn't different. Yeah we get a little creosote, buts there's no chance for a chimney fire. We brush twice a season and there's very little there, compared to the bucket fulls we use to see with the old furnace.
> 
> In the end, it's whatever appeals to the buyer. Just like vehicles, there's many options to choose from. I don't think someone could go wrong from either unit, there's to right or wrong choice. Even though the Kuuma's test results are impressive, not having a certification will stop some customers from considering their units, or stop sales into certain states. When they acquire that, things will be much better for them. I enjoy these threads when they're in good taste, and not all out bashing. It allows others to see both sides.



You are correct. My dad had been working on this furnace for the past 25 years and after thousands of test burns he was convinced that it was the best on the market. Of course we were able to sell some by word of mouth and some local advertising but saying you are the best only gets one so far. 

We had to make a decision on what would prove it's the best. We went with the independent testing and Intertek, which is one of only a handful of labs in the world that performs this process. The kind of money that we spent going though the testing was tough in our situation because it was more then my dad was paying himself in a year. My dad decided that he would rather have results from the tests that were done then a certification from the EPA for a wood stove when it's really a furnace. 

I truly feel that the best part of dealing with us is not only how easy wood burning becomes but rather the customer service one receives on top of the amazing product. How many places can you call at almost anytime and speak with the actual product designer and someone that knows everything about using it? Not many... We take questions on nights and weekends just trying to make sure everyone is happy with their purchase. My dad will even give any of our furnace owners his home number to call at anytime.


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## laynes69 (Dec 8, 2012)

I'll give you a story. When we purchased our furnace, it was through a big box store and not a dealer. We had no one around here that would install, or even look at it for that matter. I didn't mind, for I've done electrical, ductwork, etc. so it wasn't a big deal for me. A couple years ago, we had a problem with our furnace. I contacted usstove, which at this time they were discontinued, and even then customer service was poor. I contacted a couple dealers in different states, and they told me to contact the manufacturer which was SBI. I figured nothing would happen, but it was worth a try. Little did I realize after explaining my situation, SBI was going to send someone here. What I didn't realize was it was Fyrebug from Canada, which had some service calls in the states so he would stop by and check things out. The company went out of their way to make sure things were taken care of. It's one of the reasons why PSG wants dealers to install and sell their furnaces. Every single dealer I spoke with had nothing but high things to say for the company. Excellent warranties, products well built and strong customer service to boot. It's not just for PSG, but all other lines of stoves they build they stand behind. It's not something you see everyday. So yes you want a company that stands behind their products and because of that I would buy another product from SBI any day.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 8, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> PS If you want to send me a free caddy, I will do a side by side comparason on how they stack up. I am an hvac tech so you know it will be accurate and honest. And I love free stuff AY.



I would but I wont make bonus this year if I do...


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## Fyrebug (Dec 8, 2012)

reaperman said:


> Computer controlled wood burning units scare me. Why? Because since the micro processor was invented they have been sticking them into just about every product from A to Z. Are the products better as a result? Some are, some not. But the longevity of most products on the market these days seem to be diminished as a result.



I think there is a difference. Product longevity is called 'planned obsolescence' which means they only want the unit to last so long before you need to buy a new one. It has nothing to do with electronics.

Electronics in furnaces allows you to push the boundaries on combustion and efficiencies that would otherwise not be possible. The same happened with cars. Look at the difference between cars in the 80's and now... Better gas mileage and power even large pick-ups.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 8, 2012)

lampmfg said:


> You are correct. My dad had been working on this furnace for the past 25 years and after thousands of test burns he was convinced that it was the best on the market. Of course we were able to sell some by word of mouth and some local advertising but saying you are the best only gets one so far.



Thanks Matt for the compliment. It's true... at the end of the day service matters a lot to customers. I think forums such as AS shows the MFG's that cares by spending the time to discuss these issues. Even Keith despite all his bluster really cared about his customers and products.

I tip my hat to Grampa Kuuma who with limited resources was able to produce such a great unit. And yes, despite the going back and forth the lab results are impressive.

Finally Garret, I wouldn't be so worried about competitors including PSG. If you make a great product backed by excellent service there is no way but up. However, the real source or concerns is the upcoming EPA legislation. We attended a meeting in MN last month and EPA threw the entire industry for a loop. They had indicated that for wood stoves the new benchmark was going to be 4.5 gr/hr with efficiencies plateau's as well. For forced air and boilers they were more or less going to follow CSA B415.

However, they threw a curve ball and said they now want 2.5 gr/hr for stoves and have change the requirements for furnaces so that none would pass today including yours and mine.

What this means is if its adopted as is, it will literally kill the little and not so little guys either. Price of appliances will double and triple by 2015 in order for everyone to re-design, re-tool and certify. It's not over yet. The industry is trying to talk sense to EPA. I urge you to join HPBA and let your voice heard otherwise everyone will end up suffering.


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## lampmfg (Dec 8, 2012)

The one thing that I hope a thread like this does is encourage people to understand how far along wood burning has come and just how much new technology can improve the wood burning process. I would love for everyone to buy a Kuuma but in all actuality it would be very hard for us to build more then we did this past year the way we are currently configured. 30 people on a waiting list in November is going to eventually cause my dad to have a heart attack trying to make sure they are all done perfectly and on time.


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## stihly dan (Dec 8, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> I would but I wont make bonus this year if I do...



BONUS, whats a bonus. You canadians get bonuses? I thought that went out the window along with the 1 income family. Next thing your going to tell us, is that you get raises too.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 8, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> BONUS, whats a bonus. You canadians get bonuses? I thought that went out the window along with the 1 income family. Next thing your going to tell us, is that you get raises too.



Let me rephrase 

If you guys bought more stuff then I might get a raise and a bonus. 

Then I would promptly turn around and give it to our govt since we love our taxes.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 9, 2012)

reaperman said:


> Computer controlled wood burning units scare me. Why? Because since the micro processor was invented they have been sticking them into just about every product from A to Z. Are the products better as a result? Some are, some not. But the longevity of most products on the market these days seem to be diminished as a result. One example, our washing machine was purchased about 6 years ago when we built our home. The washer replaced a old maytag that was at least 15 years old. I then gave the maytag to a guy I work with that still uses it today. The computer on my new, name brand wash machine puked out this summer. By the time I paid a service tech to diagnose the issue and replace the computer I almost had the same $$ as a new machine. Take a look at today's vehicles. Thats about all you can do is look, fixing one is out of the question. I will admit the computers on cars do make them more efficient but come at a cost. The monitor sensors appear to be the kink in the armor. They trigger the check engine light to go on, only to find out the car is fine, but the sensor monitoring its functions puked out.
> 
> The bottom line to me is, the mechanical part of products seem to outlast the electronic systems that operate them. A wood stove or furnace, as a whole, are sturdy, well built pieces of steel that will last decades. Adding a computer will improve its efficiency, but nobody will ever convince me that the electronics that run the system will outlast the steel that it is bolted onto. So the issue becomes a future investment in another computer sometime down the road. If troubles in the electronics erupt, who will come to diagnosis them? Computer control wood burning devices will not be able to be diagnosed by the local geek squad. Will the homeowner be able to diagnosis electrical issues and know what parts to order? And can these computer controlled furnaces be used without electronics? On the bright side, a manual damper will never fail. Unfortunately this is where we are at with today's products and as a result, its a throw away society.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I all for innovation and improving products and getting the most from your wood pile. Even if it means adding a computer, but I just want the computer to last as long as the system its designed to operate. I also like the fact that a wood stove can be operated without electricity, especially during power outages. Good luck to Kuuma, I'm a Minnesota boy myself and wish your company the best.


Electronic controls on wood fired furnaces are almost inevitable. As we know, some have them now. Stoves, maybe, maybe not, who knows, I'm sure we'll see after the next set of EPA regs. It's like fyrebug said, it's called planned or engineered obsolescence. The quality and reliability of the electronics in a 747 jet is more than just a little better than what is in the latest gotta-have-it toy you just bought your kid for Christmas. We'll all love it after we get used to it (BTW, how ya likin that new phone by now spidey?) due to the increased burn times, cleaner chimneys and low/"no" smoke. I have to believe that if you purchase a top of the line furnace, like Kuuma or PSG Caddy, the electronics are designed to last as long as the firebox, which seems to be a looong time! Buy a chi-com made one (cause I'm sure they'll jump in the clean burn market too) from your local "farm-mart" probably gonna give ya trouble.

I'm not sure how the current Caddy and Vaporfire models are set up, but hopefully they can be used, at least enough to keep your house from freezing, during a power outage. 

While on the subject, and we seem to have at least a couple mfgs ears, I personally would have a "techno-geek" wish list of options on a electronic clean burn wood furnace.
1. wireless monitor for the firebox, plenum, and flue temps with visible and audible alarms for "oh crap" or low temp situations. 
2. the ability to monitor remotely from a computer or cell phone, maybe a remote alert to the cell for the previously mentioned situations.
3. more to come as I think of them :msp_rolleyes:


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## iowa (Dec 10, 2012)

I loaded it half way up last night before bed. Got up, it was 73 in the house and a bunch of nice coals left. Today will be a good test. Was 22 out this morning with a wind chill of 10deg. High of 35. I loaded it up. Will update at 430pm when I get home! :msp_w00t:


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## Fyrebug (Dec 10, 2012)

brenndatomu said:


> I'm not sure how the current Caddy and Vaporfire models are set up, but hopefully they can be used, at least enough to keep your house from freezing, during a power outage.
> 
> While on the subject, and we seem to have at least a couple mfgs ears, I personally would have a "techno-geek" wish list of options on a electronic clean burn wood furnace.
> 1. wireless monitor for the firebox, plenum, and flue temps with visible and audible alarms for "oh crap" or low temp situations.
> ...



Amish folks use our Caddy's without blowers of course. So they are in a state of continuous power outage... I've been in their houses and they are quite ingenious and build their house around air flows. They design a large inverted funnel plenum that feeds into large floor grates. They undo the bottom or rear the furnace as their cold air return and voila!

For us common folks in case of an extended power outage we will have to manually open the primary air damper, and have a 'outlet' on the plenum we can open and close to have the warm air exhaust freely. 

Wireless monitor and apps is something we are considering. We're 2 to 3 years away from it. Right now our engineers are busy trying to invent the next technology that will keep the EPA folks happy.


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## iowa (Dec 10, 2012)

Was pretty cold today. It was 30 out when I left work at 330 and good wind. Got home at 430 and the house was toasty warm at 75 degrees! Awesome! And here's a pic of what left from the day. Still plenty of heat to prob last till bedtime!


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## wndwlkr (Dec 10, 2012)

Nice setup Iowa! :msp_thumbup:


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## iowa (Dec 10, 2012)

wndwlkr said:


> Nice setup Iowa! :msp_thumbup:



Thanks!


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## laynes69 (Dec 10, 2012)

Fyrebug said:


> Amish folks use our Caddy's without blowers of course. So they are in a state of continuous power outage... I've been in their houses and they are quite ingenious and build their house around air flows. They design a large inverted funnel plenum that feeds into large floor grates. They undo the bottom or rear the furnace as their cold air.



I never realized the Amish burn Caddy's, but I guess you have referenced it before. Makes sense, they squeeze every last drop out of everything. Around here is a stove shop where the Amish build furnaces and stoves, similar to the Hitzers. We are surrounded by many Amish around here, not the commercialized Amish either.

I've pulled the access door off the return of our furnace before to change the blower speed. When I removed the panel, the air was rushing in through the furnace into the ductwork. I know the design has been changed, but it's nice to be able to remove the panel in 2 seconds without any tools in case of an outage, or simply for access.


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## stihly dan (Dec 10, 2012)

That was 13 hrs.. How many splits of white oak did you put in? Was anyone home today? How hot was it at 9 am?


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## iowa (Dec 10, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> That was 13 hrs.. How many splits of white oak did you put in? Was anyone home today? How hot was it at 9 am?



Not sure how many splits I put in. Filled it 3/4 full. No one was home today. I loaded it at 6am. They all left by 7!30.


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## Fyrebug (Dec 10, 2012)

laynes69 said:


> I never realized the Amish burn Caddy's, but I guess you have referenced it before. Makes sense, they squeeze every last drop out of everything. Around here is a stove shop where the Amish build furnaces and stoves, similar to the Hitzers. We are surrounded by many Amish around here, not the commercialized Amish either.



I forgot if you are near but we have an Amish dealer in Millersburg OH is one of the biggest dealer we have. People drive from miles around to shop at his place. (no electricity)

We also have other amish dealers in PA & IN. Great folks.


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## centennial60 (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey Iowa, what setting have you been running your kuuma on? And have ya been monitoring the flue gas temps to see what they've been running?


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## iowa (Dec 10, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> Hey Iowa, what setting have you been running your kuuma on? And have ya been monitoring the flue gas temps to see what they've been running?



I have my setting on 1. For the mildest weather. My stove pipe is ranging between 150-200 degrees. And that's less than a foot from the furnace. Looking in the damper T into the strovepipe it is clean. Just a very slight white chalky powder here and there. 

I know this goes against all burning techniques. But no smoke does equal no creasote! The only smoke I see is right when I load it. Otherwise there's no smoke!


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## centennial60 (Dec 10, 2012)

That's pretty amazing especially at such a low burn!


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## lampmfg (Dec 10, 2012)

centennial60 said:


> That's pretty amazing especially at such a low burn!



That's why our furnace is so unique.


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## iowa (Dec 18, 2012)

Words getting out. I had a call this afternoon from a guy by Lake of the Ozarks, mo. He's very interested. Says he might swing down and take a look at my Vaporfire when he's in the area.


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## stihly dan (Dec 18, 2012)

How doe's he know you have one? Do you meet people and say, Hi I'm iowa, I have a new wood furnace. You should get one. 

Seriouslyly tho. Still like it alot know that you have been using it for awhile? Got the H2O done yet?


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## iowa (Dec 19, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> How doe's he know you have one? Do you meet people and say, Hi I'm iowa, I have a new wood furnace. You should get one.
> 
> Seriouslyly tho. Still like it alot know that you have been using it for awhile? Got the H2O done yet?



Yeah. I walk the streets and announce I have this new revolutionary wood furnace!!! LOL. No. I told Darrel if he wanted to give out my number to anyone in my area, he could do so. I know lots of people like to see the product before buying. And it's a bit of a drive from here to Northern Mn. This guy didn't even know about AS. He had found the Lamppa ad in a farm mag. or something. 

I do not have the H2O done yet. Waiting on a plumber to give me a quote yet. But other than that. I LOVE this furnace. Granted we haven't had much for cold weather yet, it's been keeping us plenty warm with very little wood! I put 4 sticks of wood in last night before bed. Overnight temps fell to 37. It was 75 in the house when I woke up!


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## lampmfg (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks guys we really appreciate the good PR... I have seen first hand how long and how hard my dad has worked to develop our Vapor-Fire furnaces so I know how much he deserves to grow and succeed.


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## dziadzu (Dec 19, 2012)

*Essex boilers*

I/ve had an Essex wood boiler for over 25 yrs. which is also a smoke burner. During this time, I have sent a brush through my chimney once. A small shop in Mass. can still make them but at considerable cost. Used units rarely come on the market. I can give you a list of pros and cons if your interested, but I've saved a fortune with it. Some questions you might ask of the units being suggested are:
1. How frequently is a clean out needed, and what is the procedure. Considerable ash dust may be generated.
2. If the burn of the smoke is accomplished with heated refractory bricks, how often must they be replaced, and what do they cost. Are they off the shelf items at any brick store, or are they available only through their dealer. 
3. Is there a mechanism for handling excess heat? Does it cycle on and off? Is it controlled by electricity? Having to open the windows in the Winter really puts a crimp on efficiency.


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## stihly dan (Dec 19, 2012)

iowa said:


> Yeah. I walk the streets and announce I have this new revolutionary wood furnace!!! LOL. No. I told Darrel if he wanted to give out my number to anyone in my area, he could do so. I know lots of people like to see the product before buying. And it's a bit of a drive from here to Northern Mn. This guy didn't even know about AS. He had found the Lamppa ad in a farm mag. or something.
> 
> I do not have the H2O done yet. Waiting on a plumber to give me a quote yet. But other than that. I LOVE this furnace. Granted we haven't had much for cold weather yet, it's been keeping us plenty warm with very little wood! I put 4 sticks of wood in last night before bed. Overnight temps fell to 37. It was 75 in the house when I woke up!



Its real easy. If you can build a monster splitter like hedge's, you will have no problem plumbing it in. If You have any questions on anything just give me a ring.


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## iowa (Dec 19, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Its real easy. If you can build a monster splitter like hedge's, you will have no problem plumbing it in. If You have any questions on anything just give me a ring.



Well, I really don't have the time or patients with plumbing in a bunch of copper lines! Not my cup of tea. 

Give me a saw, mill, lathe, torch, and welder and I'll be happy!


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## lampmfg (Dec 26, 2012)

Well I spent Christmas Eve at my uncle's house and Christmas Day at my parent's house. Below zero around here and I was in a T-Shirt both days because of their Kuuma Vapor-Fire 100's. Uncle's was 74 degrees and my parent's was 73 degrees. A little to warm for me but still beats the alternative...


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## iowa (Dec 26, 2012)

First real cold weather here. Highs around 28 and low was 16 this morning. Been 76 in house during day and 74 when I get up.


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## lampmfg (Dec 26, 2012)

Took a couple of pictures of my dad's ancient Vapor-Fire 100. It still works like a champ!!

View attachment 269772
View attachment 269773
View attachment 269774


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## stihly dan (Dec 26, 2012)

That flue looks like there's an extra elbow, and 90, than the manufacturer recommends. 

Sorry, just bustin chops.


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## frozennorth (Dec 27, 2012)

*looking for the best wood furnace*

Hi guys, i want to buy a very good log indoor burning warm air furnace and ship it to Scotland to replace an old Rheem oil burning job. who makes the Rolls Royce of furnaces? the last thing i need is warranty hassles etc over here! i like the look of the Charmaster and the Kuumas 
i need to heat a 5 bedroom ground level house average winter temp same as Northern Michigan i guess. your comments are much appreciated.


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## lampmfg (Dec 27, 2012)

Charmaster's theory is to form a big bed of charcoal throughout the whole fire box and that's the worst thing you can do when burning wood because when you get down to the coals there's no heat left and you have all of the coals to deal with. Our furnace goes through the 3 stages of burning wood, which are the gases, cellulose and then coals as it moves backwards and you don't have all the coals in the way when you want to refire. We still have coals for 15 hrs. for refiring without lighting a match.


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## iowa (Dec 27, 2012)

I'd say Kuuma would be the rolls royse of wood furnaces! 

Perhaps Lamppa can shine the light on shipping over the pond. I know Darrell hates the shipping part! 

Btw. Estes denied my claim. Them ba st ages !!


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## Fyrebug (Dec 28, 2012)

frozennorth said:


> Hi guys, i want to buy a very good log indoor burning warm air furnace and ship it to Scotland to replace an old Rheem oil burning job. who makes the Rolls Royce of furnaces? the last thing i need is warranty hassles etc over here! i like the look of the Charmaster and the Kuumas
> i need to heat a 5 bedroom ground level house average winter temp same as Northern Michigan i guess. your comments are much appreciated.



Not too many Rolls Royce around here but there are Cadillacs. You could also check out *PSG Caddy line of furnaces*. 

We make them, they are EPA and/or CSA B415 therefore there is no smoke. We are also an international company so parts and warranty is not a problem.

One thing to make sure is Europe has different emission standards than North America and you should check it's ok to burn there. There is also the 120V to 240V you will have to contend with. 

Also you might want to tell us what your house dimensions, insulation etc... as much info as possible so you make the right purchase. 

Check us out at  PSG Biomass Furnaces


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## stihly dan (Dec 28, 2012)

Thats it? They say no and it's all over. Sick the wife or mother on them, they will pay. Can't let people get away with that, or they will start refusing everyone.


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## iowa (Jan 2, 2013)

The in-laws all came in from Iowa last Wed. and left on Sunday. My house is now called "The Sauna". LOL. It was pretty chilly while they were here. Usually in the upper 20's to lower 30's. House was always a constant 76!!! 

LOVE IT!!!!


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## stihly dan (Jan 2, 2013)

Sooo... You like it better than your old long wood! H2O in yet?


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## iowa (Jan 3, 2013)

stihly dan said:


> Sooo... You like it better than your old long wood! H2O in yet?



OMG. Without a doubt! I use way less wood! 

But the best part............ Piece of mind.... Loading that furnace in the morning and at night and not having to worry about a flue fire!


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## stihly dan (Jan 3, 2013)

Have you had it on anything but low yet. I thought it was supposed to be a high of 35 today, so this morning I only threw in a few soft maple splits. Well it was a high of 16, starting at 2 deg. When I got home from work the house was 62 and 14 outside. I turned the computer on high, some soft maple in the fire box, house was 72 in an hour. My oil boiler would have taken all night. Furnace is back on low, keeping us nice and warm.


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## iowa (Jan 3, 2013)

Yup. Only low here too! Wife didn't put wood in it all day. So I loaded it last night at 10pm. Came home to 75 in house and lots of coals.


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## iowa (Feb 23, 2013)

We got some ice and sleet on Thursday. Temps have been chilly for this yr lately. Highs around 30. Low last night was 15. 

Woke up to 73 degrees in the house today. 

Oh. Did I tell ya... I love my Kuuma Vaporfire 100!!! :msp_biggrin:


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## npd2408 (Feb 24, 2013)

Well here is a question for you all. Got a budget of $1500.00 for a wood furnace maybe less or a hair more house is a ranch about 1600 sq ft. What wood furnace would you suggest. I also need to run duct work since my home was built in the 80's and it has electric base board. Been looking at Eanglander and Daka. Cant afford the big boy's.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 24, 2013)

npd2408 said:


> Well here is a question for you all. Got a budget of $1500.00 for a wood furnace maybe less or a hair more house is a ranch about 1600 sq ft. What wood furnace would you suggest. I also need to run duct work since my home was built in the 80's and it has electric base board. Been looking at Eanglander and Daka. Cant afford the big boy's.



My experience is that you will spend $1500 just for your duct work if you have none now, maybe more.
Any chance you could make gravity heat work, or use a stove?


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## laynes69 (Feb 24, 2013)

I'm all for a wood furnace, but like mentioned above, ductwork isn't cheap. I did our entire home about 6 years ago and it was 1,200 then. A nice EPA certified stove may work just fine for you. I've heard the horror stories of baseboard heating and the high bills. Do you already have a chimney in place?


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## npd2408 (Feb 24, 2013)

Stove wont work putting it in the man room of the basement the other half is finished, i had an alaska stoker in there pushing the air to the livingroom. Building a chimney in the spring. Can I make a plenum and branch off with eight inch round pipe. Got to put the wall or floor duct in to.


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