# Moving Tree Debris: Back To Front Yard ???



## StihlRockin' (Feb 7, 2008)

*I would really appreciate hearing how y'all would do a tree removal where you would have to move the debris from the back yard to the front yard.*

I will set up some conditions:

*-* No craning the whole tree over the house. LOL!

*-* Septic tank, drain field or other possible circumstance prevent the driving of larger vehicles like a pickup or Bobcat to help move the debris.

*-* By debris I'm talking the logs, branches & rakings... essentially any mess that is a result of the tree removal.

*-* Tree can be fallen or climbed and removed, then resulting mess is in the back yard on the ground needing to be hauled to the front yard for disposal.

Here's what I'm thinking... Much of tree work is pure grunt work, or so it has been for me for years. It's the way I was taught. Much or all the wood in this situation was moved by a wheelbarrow(s). While someone is manning the barrow, others are dragging the brush. The wood is cut into small enough pieces that one person can comfortably handle it into the barrow and into the back of the dump truck.

The brush is cut into several pieces making it easier to handle, drag and chip. The brush is stacked with all the butts pointed in one direction and similar sized branches are stacked with each other... short with the short and the long with the long, etc. The brush is then stacked into piles that one person can comfortably carry over his shoulder, balanced. Sometimes branches were cut just so they could be dragged instead of carried as some tree branches are easier to drag than carry and vice versa. I also "had" a wheel barrow where I bolted conduit/steel pipes onto the sides sticking up over the barrow's edge only about an inch or two. I would place a dowel stick into these pipes making sides to each barrow. There would only be two pipes on each side, just enough to create more holding capacity. The dowels would protrude up about 18" or so on both sides. Brush could then be stacked onto the wheel barrow to be hauled away.

The wheel barrow is used to haul away the rakings too, but I hate to admit I have hauled this type debris by dragging the stuff with a blue poly tarp with excellent success, BUT haven't done it in years. LOL! Yeah, stupid, I know. Some of the lighter fluffier debris can be moved easily and quickly with a tarp and is also easier to load into the back of the truck.

The barrow full of wood is then hauled to the back of the truck where it is lifted out manually and thrown in... by hand! Sometimes if the barrow is light enough with rakings or stump mulch, it is handled by two guys and lifted right into the back of the truck.

Wheel barrows that are too heavy with rakings are often dumped into a pile where later it will be manually pitch-forked into the back of the truck.

I use to have a powerbroom to move the rakings, but that was stolen so my main method for raking now is using a hard rake to move the heavy stuff, then I'll finish up with the leaf rakes made of plastic. Shindaiwa and Stihl... and I think Echo all have their own version of a powerbroom. I used the one with the flaps, not the brush, to do the raking. It worked for stump mulch fairly good too. It worked well enough I'll be getting one again.

I also use upper end Husq's and Stihl backpack blowers to help with the smaller debris cleanup. Works slick when the grass is short and the blowin' is easy.

In a nutshell that is how I operate. I do have advancements being made this year to make the operation more efficient. I thought maybe someone might learn just one thing from what I share. If that's the case, great, but I'm also hoping others share their own things, I and others will learn too.

So, how would you move tree debris from the back yard to the front yard in this scenario?

Thanks,

*Stihl*Rockin'


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## Bermie (Feb 7, 2008)

Sounds like you've got a good plan...

I like the modification to your wheelbarrow...
We use poly tarps and flat sided 30gal plastic trash cans as well. The one advantage over the wheelbarrow is the contents can be slung straight in the chipper or on the truck.


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## beaverb01 (Feb 7, 2008)

*clean-up*

I use debris containers for small stuff or a tarp. I also have a Kubota that is used to haul any and everything, from rakings to firewood sized chunks or logs being hauled to the mill. I put down plywood to run the tractor on if the ground is wet or if the HO just wants to protect the lawn. The tractor can dump into the chipper feed table or into the back of the bucket truck chip box. This works well for me. I use a two or three man crew, myself included.

Beaver :greenchainsaw:


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## Toddppm (Feb 7, 2008)

I've been using those for a few years now, great little machines. Not commercial quality at all but easy to fix. They have improved the design in the last couple years and have a better motr B+G now too. I don't take them everywhere but they are indispensible for moving wood or mulch uphill or a long ways.

Lucky dog at $250.00.....off to craigslist to search!


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## lxt (Feb 7, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> The DR power wagon doesn't come close to being a mini skid but I got lucky and picked one up for $250 off of Craigslist. Mine is 6.5hp and rated to carry 800lbs. Works very well for moving wood, stump chips, and rakings around. 32 inches wide and 4 speed with the highest speed faster than a fast walk. It goes almost anywhere. The bed dumps easily even fully loaded. If I could just figure out a way to carry it on the chipper I'd be set.





Absolutely!! even a lawn mower with trailer is quick & you can pick em up cheap.....of course gettin it there requires another towing unit!! but what Treeco shows is a wonderful unit & at a nice price.....Id have bought that in a heartbeat for that price........Nice find!!

LXT...............


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## arbor pro (Feb 7, 2008)

*tracked mini skid*

stihlrockin'

A tracked mini skid is absolutely the way to go if you can rent or buy one. The tracks disburse the weight so the ground pressure is about the same as a riding lawn mower. I am a small part-time tree service and work alone. My mini is my entire ground crew! Absolutely the best purchase I've ever made.

I put a 'thumb' grapple on mine to handle bigger loads and brush. A used unit with grapple runs around $7500-$10,000 and you won't regret it.

The only downfall to minis whatsoever is that they won't load as high as a regular skidsteer will. I have a 1-ton dump truck and a 14' dump trailer which I load into. Sometimes, I have to throw the last few branches on by hand because the mini won't reach high enough. Still - just like a good Stihl chainsaw, a good mini is a tool I won't ever work without again!


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## TreeBot (Feb 7, 2008)

StihlRockin' said:


> Much or all the wood in this situation was moved by a wheelbarrow(s). While someone is manning the barrow, others are dragging the brush. The wood is cut into small enough pieces that one person can comfortably handle it into the barrow and into the back of the dump truck.
> *Stihl*Rockin'



Rolling the wood out on a log dolly and up a ramp onto a trailer is a much more efficient method. I have the green one sold by Sherrill, it has a 1500lb capacity so it is only limited by the collective muscle of your crew. A gentle downhill path will make for a fun days work, a flat path and you will get a monster workout, and an uphill path will have you wishing for the mini-skid. Always beats dicing it up into barrow size though.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 7, 2008)

Look around and see if any company is renting the Gehl mini loader. It is a rider with and telescoping fork. They fit through most gates, articulate and are turf friendly.


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## masiman (Feb 7, 2008)

The other options are better but if you don't have luck finding or getting them, an ATV with trailer hookup can get the wood from A to B. Of course you'll still have to do double duty of loading and unloading.

Depending on the lay of the land you can get the tailgate low enough that you can have a shallow ramp right into the bed of the truck. That would save you alot of time and energy.


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## Themadd1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Check your local rental yard. They may have something to help you out. It might save you money based on hours. Good luck.


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## treeman82 (Feb 7, 2008)

Depending on how far away the debris has to go, and what kind of debris we are talking about... like whether it's LOADED with vines, or if it's just branches and wood.

Odds are I'd use my tractor and log arch to bring out as big of pieces as possible. Leaves no trace for the most part, and it's plenty light. On level ground I can move a 1000+ lb log without any trouble. Once it gets to where it has to go though, I either have to cut it and load it by hand into a truck... or I've got the option of rolling a bunch of 4 - 6' long pieces into the back of the trailer. However once the trailer is loaded with logs, I have to dump it and come back for the tractor / arch.


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## teamtree (Feb 7, 2008)

How big of a tree are we talking about? How far from back yard to street? How big is your crew? Sounds like you are putting to much thought into it. But hey, here is my two cents...

I use the "wittle" plan. I just keep looking at how to make the debris pile get smaller and "wittle" away at it.

Why can't you use a small utility tractor? A 30hp would work great and they would not damage the septic field. Mine tractor weighs about 3000lbs. I am sure the customer is probably overly cautious about his precious turf. 

We use the wheel barrow quite often and if you are producing firewood it works out great. We had to pack out / off a steep hill 2 red oaks the other week. We got 7 cords of wood out of the trees. We had to split the lower sections so we could move them. If they rolled they would have tore the hell out of the place so we had to be extra careful. 

There is a powered log dolly advertised in the Tree Trader. I think they look like they would be a good thing to have. I think they are $2495. I will get the website and post later.


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## Thillmaine (Feb 7, 2008)

*Speedline?*

Speedline ove rhte house an option? I would much rather be standing on spikes then running butt logs all around the property.. Or winch on a chipper with some redirecs, and plywood or alturna mats ont he grong. SUr eit s a pain in the ass to put all the mats or plywood ont he ground, but think abotu how quick the skidsteer would move the wood and branches out...


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## hermit63 (Feb 7, 2008)

*stihl rockin*

I think that all the suggestions are helpfull, i am thinking because of steep grades and small access man power is how this man has accomplisihed his tasks and what he is asking is how to do it without, an y slave is beter than a machien its productivity- expence=profit and he dont know or would allowthe time to speed line or any other method.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2008)

Well the last one I dollied, it stunk up hill, so I fixed my old cub cadet 125
and the tires on the matching cart and wow the difference for 3 dollars
in fuel, it will move a lot of wood brush etc. Is not the prettiest thing on
eight wheels but sure is a work saver I may paint it in spring !


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## 2FatGuys (Feb 8, 2008)

Rope - Do you have any pics of that setup?


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## hammerlogging (Feb 8, 2008)

Fella- I've done lots of low budget/low impact removals. Mechanization, even rental, is very important to look at, think long term, investing in your business is a big important step, if you put your mind to it you can make the payments. But, its not always possible. I 2nd the winch w/ redirect pulleys method, try choker large bundles of brush at once. But, for the logs, I've leap frogged "rails" of 10 ft. X 4" diameter branches for rails to roll the logs toward destination, whether to be chunked into firewood or rolled onto trailer. A chunk of firewood thrown below the middle of the log and slightly rolled onto makes a nice log pivot too. Use cant hooks or peaveys. Are you familiar with parbuckling to get wood up on a trailer (or decked)- another good use for a winch but other stuff (comealong) can do it too. Ain't nothin wrong with going oldd fashioned, but you're thinking right, trying to improve.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 8, 2008)

fecrousejr said:


> Rope - Do you have any pics of that setup?



If I get in earlier tonight I will snap one and post but you guy's
must promise not to laugh and go hard on me k ?


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## Themadd1 (Feb 8, 2008)

I find the best way to move brush is to hire four times as many guys as I need from the local labor ready. That way you have one to sneak off, one to hold the rake up off the ground, one to ##### and moan, and the fourth one actually works. It is a great trade off at 60 bucks an hour. plus my back hurts less and my voice get raw from yelling "lets go, move it." "Where did "John" go?" or "use the rake dont lean on it"

Last time I used labor ready I got one kid who really like the work. When I called him at home and said I could give him a good job at really good pay he said sure. Next thing you know he just stopped coming to work. It was maybe two days into his career, learning the ropes. 

I just dont get how people can be so dang lazy and still collect unemployment. Dont get me wrong we need it for a reason but there are a lot of lazy sacks of crap out there drawing money from our pockets.


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## arbor pro (Feb 8, 2008)

Themadd1 said:


> I just dont get how people can be so dang lazy and still collect unemployment. Dont get me wrong we need it for a reason but there are a lot of lazy sacks of crap out there drawing money from our pockets.



Amen to that. I guess that's why I decided to minimize my workforce to just me and to maximize my productivity by buying good productive equipment. I'll repeat my earlier response to the original question posed - I would suggest the purchase or rental of a tracked mini skid steer to move debris from back yard to front. I've been doing so with my bobcat mt-50 for a year now and have yet to damage any turf any more than excessive trips by foot or wheelbarrow would - and I can complete the cleanup in a fraction of the time that manual labor could. In the long run, it means more money in my pocket and fewer headaches. I'd rather deal with equipment breakdowns than with AWOL or lazy employees - been there and done that and will not be going back!

I love my mini skid so much that I've even considered marketing used ones in my area as no local dealers have caught on yet. I get contractors stopping by my worksites all the time to watch it at work.


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## TheKid (Feb 12, 2008)

what if it's a big fir and it has to come out of a 30" gate, down a 3 tiered, turning sidewalk, then down some more stairs? good old man power.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 12, 2008)

TheKid said:


> what if it's a big fir and it has to come out of a 30" gate, down a 3 tiered, turning sidewalk, then down some more stairs? good old man power.


Much I repeat much denero pard


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 12, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Amen to that. I guess that's why I decided to minimize my workforce to just me and to maximize my productivity by buying good productive equipment. I'll repeat my earlier response to the original question posed - I would suggest the purchase or rental of a tracked mini skid steer to move debris from back yard to front. I've been doing so with my bobcat mt-50 for a year now and have yet to damage any turf any more than excessive trips by foot or wheelbarrow would - and I can complete the cleanup in a fraction of the time that manual labor could. In the long run, it means more money in my pocket and fewer headaches. I'd rather deal with equipment breakdowns than with AWOL or lazy employees - been there and done that and will not be going back!
> 
> I love my mini skid so much that I've even considered marketing used ones in my area as no local dealers have caught on yet. I get contractors stopping by my worksites all the time to watch it at work.



I know I'm not that good a bobcat operator, but everytime I run it when the grass is wet or frozen, the turf gets ripped to chit when I try and turn. What's the secret? Most of the time I'm using the machine to load wood and small logs into a 30 yd bin. Nothing like picking up a large chunk and balancing on the front wheels, then getting it high enough to go over the side of the bin.


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## StihlRockin' (Feb 12, 2008)

BC WetCoast said:


> I know I'm not that good a bobcat operator, but everytime I run it when the grass is wet or frozen, the turf gets ripped to chit when I try and turn. What's the secret?



Back in the day when I worked around the Twin Cities, we used a Gehl skid-steer loader.(like a Bobcat) The owner had slicks on the tires... or I mean the tires were slicks. They were smooth and when we turned, we went back and forth turning in the direction we wanted to go ever so slightly.

Right turn:

Forward a little to the right.
Backward a little to the left.
Forward a little to the right.
Backward a little to the left.

Repeat... until you faced the desired direction.

Maybe something more like forward 3ft to 7ft turning right.
Backing up 3ft to 7ft while turning the backside to the left.

It worked for us at the time and was impressed how well it worked.

*Stihl*Rockin'


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## BarkingMad (Feb 12, 2008)

Another consideration: 
In order of risk, you're probably most exposed while driving to the job, then it's getting the tree down. Next big risk area for most of us is the heavy lifting. Without mechanical assistance, our backs, knees or ankles are very likely to suffer some failure. I belive that smart working will get us longevity, and failure to make the step up will doom us to short, brutal existences.
For those of us running bigger crews, any risk reduction pays even better.


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## arbor pro (Feb 12, 2008)

BC WetCoast said:


> I know I'm not that good a bobcat operator, but everytime I run it when the grass is wet or frozen, the turf gets ripped to chit when I try and turn. What's the secret? Most of the time I'm using the machine to load wood and small logs into a 30 yd bin. Nothing like picking up a large chunk and balancing on the front wheels, then getting it high enough to go over the side of the bin.



I run turf tires on my Bobcat 371 wheel loader and make wide turns when possible on my Mt-50 track loader - that's the trick. 

Yes, there are times when you might have to turn sharply and it will tear up sod. There are also times when you won't be able to get even a mini skid into tight spots and might have to use manual labor; however, for probably 90% of the time, a small skid loader will do the trick and, with a little practice in how to make turns, you'll get proficient at keeping the turf intact.


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## Canyonbc (Feb 12, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Amen to that. I guess that's why I decided to minimize my workforce to just me and to maximize my productivity by buying good productive equipment. I'll repeat my earlier response to the original question posed - I would suggest the purchase or rental of a tracked mini skid steer to move debris from back yard to front. I've been doing so with my bobcat mt-50 for a year now and have yet to damage any turf any more than excessive trips by foot or wheelbarrow would - and I can complete the cleanup in a fraction of the time that manual labor could. In the long run, it means more money in my pocket and fewer headaches. I'd rather deal with equipment breakdowns than with AWOL or lazy employees - been there and done that and will not be going back!
> 
> I love my mini skid so much that I've even considered marketing used ones in my area as no local dealers have caught on yet. I get contractors stopping by my worksites all the time to watch it at work.




I think this is huge...you invest in some good equipment and you maintain it will its not gonna break down. 

Less cost: 

Labor per man
Workmans Comp
Other...etc. 

Mini Skid...load it in the dump trailer and off to the job...i think in most situations of working is in res. work here...that 2 men...good climber and a good groundman and a good mini skid...you can work as efficent as a 3 or even 4 man crew. 

JMO.


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## beowulf343 (Feb 12, 2008)

Lot's of humping for us. Have had stuff many times in so tight of quarters that everything had to be cut and then split into manageable pieces. Fun. Usually the boss will send along a couple kids who think they are tough to help out on those jobs. 

I'm pretty good at backing my chipper into weird places-try to get within winch range as much as possible, redirecting if needed. Otherwise, it's all about strong backs. Log dolly is pretty handy till the snow gets too deep.

We love open yards though-if a skidsteer will fit we leave all the wood for the pickup crew that's behind us.



Hey, hey canyon! You're moving up in the world! Didn't you used to be just a brush cutting service?


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## Mark Arnurius (Jan 28, 2015)

Hey guys,


I know this is an old thread, but I have to tell you about this device I made a few years ago a just patented this past summer. Google or Bing search *TarpTow* and you can see what this device does. It works with your riding lawn mower or zero turn to move all your yard needs. It doesn’t require a special tarp because I designed it to work with standard plastic sheeting such as what you use for vapor barrier in your house. I had a storm knock down four trees at my house and I was able to cut them into 20’ lengths and pull them to the front using the Tarp Tow device. Over the past three years of use, I’m still using the same two plastic sheets that are 10’x25’ in size 6mils thick. They show wear, but they still work and they don’t shread like a standard tarp. Also, this device does not use cables or chains and never uses grommets as a load connection point. Check it out and tell me what you think.


Thanks,


Mark Arnurius


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 29, 2015)

This should be good...


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 29, 2015)

If I don't have a garden tractor, can I use a groundman instead?


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## mountainman1888 (Jan 29, 2015)

Get a Log Mule. I use one for jobs exactly like what you are referring to.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 29, 2015)

Who is the guy in the video hacking on the trees with a sawzall and hedge trimmer


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## Mark Arnurius (Jan 29, 2015)

It was me with the small hedge trimmer. It's all I had at the time. Small budget that I might add. Just built this thing for me a few years ago and it works so good I though other would like it too.


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## ATH (Jan 29, 2015)

But that would be great with a Steiner


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 30, 2015)

OK, I'll bite. You took a few pieces of perforated square tubing, strapped some plastic to it and your garden tractor and somehow managed to convince the US patent office that this was 
unique enough tha it deserved a patent, and now you want to sell it to professional tree companies for $149.99 plus S&H? Without having the common courtesy of becoming an AS sponsor? Jusy making sure I'm clear.


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## Mark Arnurius (Jan 30, 2015)

Sometimes the simplest designs are the best.

The best thing is using the standard plastic because this simple tubing design allows the use of this strong material. 

Also, I don't know anything about becoming a sponsor? 

Can you help me in becoming one?

I'm just like anyone else and learning as I go. 

Thanks for the comment.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 30, 2015)

Well, the first thing you need to learn is proper pruning techniques and using ppe (personal protective equipment ). Second, throwing debris on a tarp is not a new idea. hooking it to a machinr is not a new idea. Third, my smallest groundie can drag as much as that Cub Cadet. Fourth, that plasticc lasts about a week tops in a commercial setting. Fifth, No one is going to pay $150 for something they can make in a half hour with stuff laying around their shop. Sorry buddy, but I'm just not seeing it at all. Maybe post in the homeowner forum and you might find a few suckers.


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## Mark Arnurius (Jan 30, 2015)

One thing you have understand that this is designed for riding lawn mowers and zero turns. Not for any type loader or full size tractor. I'll glad that you have been doing this all the time. What is funny to say that this material is so inexpensive that you can easily beat my $99 version go ahead. As a company you have to make money or you will go broke, so to say you can beat my price that's easy when you don't charge your labor rate during the process. What is your labor rate during work and cost to clean up someones debris? Easily $100 to over $1000 in cleanup costs as compared to my product a one time buy. I have used it for three years in standard residential uses and have been able to use the same two sheets. 

All my material is USA and not any china cheap products. It can handle 2000lbs of force that is 4x the towing capacity of any riding lawn mower or zero turn. This device is really a big help. Not everyone has this idea and can try to make it for themselves because they realize it takes time and testing to make sure it works. Maybe for the heavy tree industrial with trunks over 300lbs each, but it is made for the person who owns a riding lawn mower or zero turn and can do this work themselves and not hire someone for hundreds to thousands of dollars to clean up there area. It has no problem moving loads of 500lbs continuously because I and many of my clients do this and I still use those same two plastic sheets today. 

Everyone I have ever seen trying to do this is using a tarp with grommets and even the heavy duty ones and they don't last. They set them up using cable and chains ready for those weak connection to break and spring back onto them. Plastic sheeting can be punctured and cut and it does not shred like a tarp does and can be used again easily and when layered together for strength they can move about anything. Also, this is a direct connected to eliminate spring back and kickback and it holds it by the material and not thru some cheap grommet connection.

I stand by my product and it is designed for residential uses and it does have a lifetime warranty to go along with them. They range from $99 to $219 depending on the machine. It is saving people time and money because they can do the work themselves without killing themselves moving there debris.

This device is for the normal home owner to get the job done without having to hire outside contractors to do their work for them costing them hundreds to thousands of dollars. 

That is why I made this device and have shared it with people because of how good it works at any price point.

More info here

http://www.tarptow.com/what-is-the-tarp-tow-system.html


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 30, 2015)

Then why are you posting this in a commercial climbing forum?


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## Zale (Jan 30, 2015)

The Tarp Tow just blew my mind.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm curious how plastic sheeting is going to last longer than a tarp. The only machine our tarps get hooked to is a groundie, and for the most part their pretty underpowered. Has anyone done a comparison between the longevity of 6mil plastic and a tarp under normal conditions ie across grass, pavement, paving stones, up stairs, down stairs, short sticks, long stick, 200 lbs of sawdust etc? I just can't see how a plastic sheet is going to outlast a reinforced tarp, but I can be enlightened. Our tarps usually last about a week before the holes start and then it's downhill from there.


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## no tree to big (Jan 30, 2015)

Once there is a little hole in plastic it will rip wide open very easy. How do u store your plastic to last 3 years? After being open and exposed to the elements every piece of plastic I've used dries out and becomes useless after far less then 3 years....


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## woodchuck357 (Jan 31, 2015)

Mark Arnurius said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> I know this is an old thread, but I have to tell you about this device I made a few years ago a just patented this past summer. Google or Bing search *TarpTow* and you can see what this device does. It works with your riding lawn mower or zero turn to move all your yard needs. It doesn’t require a special tarp because I designed it to work with standard plastic sheeting such as what you use for vapor barrier in your house. I had a storm knock down four trees at my house and I was able to cut them into 20’ lengths and pull them to the front using the Tarp Tow device. Over the past three years of use, I’m still using the same two plastic sheets that are 10’x25’ in size 6mils thick. They show wear, but they still work and they don’t shread like a standard tarp. Also, this device does not use cables or chains and never uses grommets as a load connection point. Check it out and tell me what you think.
> ...


We just wad a rock or chunk of wood in the end of the tarp, tie a piece of rope around it, and drag it where ever with what ever.


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## sawdsutsmoking (Jan 31, 2015)

Arbor trolley is a nice piece equipment. Brush and log moving made easier thru narrow gates. With a log dolly rated for a 1,000 or better. The bottom plate will bend down with over loading. Two-three man piece. A.K.A..big chunks! A simple two inch strap will secure wood on. Also for a two or three man brush pile strap load on dolly. One person moves the volume of three. And yes the min skid steer. Nice for larger wood volume moves from the back up hill.


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## TreeWannabe (Feb 5, 2015)

if you have anyone that does sandblasting in your area stop in and ask for a couple grit bags they are 4ft cubed wt lifting straps great for saw dust n rakings plenty strong they hold 1ton of grit nice wt winches.forks & cranes


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