# It's here! The M-Tronic MS261C is finally here.



## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2013)

I'll have one Tuesday. I'll be doing my normal mods to it. We'll soon know if it can fuel these mods or not. Hopefully it will still have a similar carb that can be "de-stratified". Stay tuned for pics and analysis.


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## SCHallenger (Aug 17, 2013)

*261M-Tron*

I'm ln!


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Aug 17, 2013)

opcorn:

:msp_w00t:

:msp_rolleyes:


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## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2013)

Just like the original MS261 modding R&D, no corners will be cut Inquiring minds demand to know:msp_biggrin:


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## Duane(Pa) (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm in for this ride!


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## justtools (Aug 17, 2013)

Stihl did it this time. They took the best 50cc saw and made it better. I cant wait to get one. opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## SawTroll (Aug 17, 2013)

justtools said:


> Stihl did it this time. They took the best 50cc saw and made it better. I cant wait to get one. opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:



If "best" is heavy and clumsy handling - you could be right. Personally, I regard the MS261 as a total flop - it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be....:msp_wink:


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## bryanr2 (Aug 17, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> If "best" is heavy and clumcy handling - you could be right. Personally, I regard the MS261 as a total flop - it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be....:msp_wink:



Stihl's "late to the party" as usual.otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## fin460 (Aug 17, 2013)

I always wanted a MS241, but even better a MS261M


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## justtools (Aug 17, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> If "best" is heavy and clumcy handling - you could be right. Personally, I regard the MS261 as a total flop - it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be....:msp_wink:



I knew I would get a response from you. I bet Stihl wont have autotune issues with this saw like others have had. It may be a little heavier than some 50cc saws. Stihl makes sure there is enough metal in the stress areas of the saw. Sawtroll how come stihl saws sell for more used than all other brands? If you are stumped I will help you, It is because they are worth it. Nice talken to you Sawtroll. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## justtools (Aug 17, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Stihl's "late to the party" as usual.otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:



Late to the party? They just make sure it is right before selling!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## SawTroll (Aug 17, 2013)

justtools said:


> I knew I would get a response from you. I bet Stihl wont have autotune issues with this saw like others have had. It may be a little heavier than some 50cc saws. Stihl makes sure there is enough metal in the stress areas of the saw. Sawtroll how come stihl saws sell for more used than all other brands? If you are stumped I will help you, It is because they are worth it. Nice talken to you Sawtroll. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Well, there isn't any "autotune issues", except in the headings and initial posts of some threads. The higher price in the US for used Stihl saws is just part of the "mythology" that Stihl has worked hard to create among people with little knowledge about chainsaws. :msp_rolleyes:

Also, the CM basically is the first generation AT, that Stihl likely pay Husky to use.....


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## bryanr2 (Aug 17, 2013)

justtools said:


> Late to the party? They just make sure it is right before selling!!!:hmm3grin2orange:



Just fish'n for the Stihlheads. 

Seriously, Stihl is going to get the first 90cc out with computer control. They already got the 70cc 441m out before the 572 (or whatever it is). Still waiting on the fabled 540xp autotune. Looks like Stihl is getting it together.

I still see no reason to buy one with the much better brand option of Husqvarna/ Jonsered. otstir::hmm3grin2orange:


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2013)

If it makes an improvement like it did on the 441 then the 261 will be the best 50cc saw out unless you want to cut 1" twigs all day. A 261 has enough torque that I don't make 2 cuts and throw it back in the truck and run a 70cc saw all day. opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## walexa07 (Aug 17, 2013)

Way to go, Brad!!

Can't wait to see how this turns out!!!

I generally respect and appreciate SawTroll's input, but ranking saw(s) that he has not run gets pretty old IMO. Plus I do not believe Mtronic was originally created by Husky and purchased by Stihl. Stihl has nowhere near the issues with Mtronic that Husky does with Autotune. Seems to me if Husky originally came out with Mtronic then they were idiots to sell something that is so troublefree, only to put something with more issues and more complicated to recalibrate on their own saws.

From the threads I have read, husky has had many more issues with their technology than stihl has had with theirs. If it's operator error, then they made it too complicated. Why are there not the same operator error issues with Mtronic?

Did not intend to derail thread. Keep us posted. 

Brad, what is the price difference between the Mtronic and the regular?

Thanks,

Waylan


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## psuiewalsh (Aug 17, 2013)

Tuesday eh? Why do you tease us so?opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## justtools (Aug 17, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Well, there isn't any "autotune issues", except in the headings and initial posts of some threads. The higher price in the US for used Stihl saws is just part of the "mythology" that Stihl has worked hard to create among people with little knowledge about chainsaws. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Also, the CM basically is the first generation AT, that Stihl likely pay Husky to use.....



Hard start hot issues, Carb issues. Huskys auto tunes have some issues. 

If Stihl is paying husky for the right to use the Autotune. Then Husky Should pay Stihl to show them how to make it work right.


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## H 2 H (Aug 17, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> If "best" is heavy and clumcy handling - you could be right. Personally, I regard the MS261 as a total flop - it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be....:msp_wink:




You regard any Stihl saw a "total flop" :msp_ohmy:


IMO


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## Russ Melampy (Aug 17, 2013)

*Holy Cow...my heart skipped a beat when I read this!*

Brad, I am near you and willing to drive...where did you order it? I last talked to my local dealer off of Cin-Day Rd. and they told me September...I really, really, really, need a 50cc saw for what I do...really hope the mods go well. Please keep me informed! Russ


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## Rudolf73 (Aug 17, 2013)

Hope you ordered it express Brad! lol


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## SawTroll (Aug 17, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> You regard any Stihl saw a "total flop" :msp_ohmy:
> 
> 
> IMO



Not true - there have been some good ones! :msp_wink:


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## kb voodoo (Aug 17, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> If "best" is heavy and clumcy handling - you could be right. Personally, I regard the MS261 as a total flop - it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be....:msp_wink:



Maybe the handler is clumsy in this case....

And FYI, only one of us has spelled that word correctly.


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## Philbert (Aug 17, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> Maybe the handler is clumsy in this case....
> And FYI, only one of us has spelled that word correctly.



When your Norwegian is as good as Nikko's English you can make those comments. 

If you have been reading much here on A.S. you'd see that his spelling and grammar are better than many of the U.S. born participants. This thread is about chainsaws. 

Philbert


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## kb voodoo (Aug 17, 2013)

Philbert said:


> When your Norwegian is as good as Nikko's English you can make those comments.
> 
> If you have been reading much here on A.S. you'd see that his spelling and grammar are better than many of the U.S. born participants. This thread is about chainsaws.
> 
> Philbert



My Norwegian is impeccable......and the 261 is not a clumsy saw. And this is coming from a Husqvarna guy.


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 17, 2013)

Can't wait to see some videos and pictures of it Brad. You did a really really good job on the regular Stihl MS261! I am sure this one will rip too.


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## angelo c (Aug 17, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> If it makes an improvement like it did on the 441 then the 261 will be the best 50cc saw out unless you want to cut 1" twigs all day. A 261 has enough torque that I don't make 2 cuts and throw it back in the truck and run a 70cc saw all day. opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:



Mike, those are not 2" twigs, thats old growth 16th generation, scientifically homoginated liberal "Sideways" planned growth forestry. Im not sure why anyone in those parts has a saw at all...heck a good batch of morning breath would blow those "trees" over.


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## RiverRocket (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm a Diehard Stihl fan, but after running one of Dozerdans ported 346s This 261 would have to be something really,really special to impress me.


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## angelo c (Aug 17, 2013)

RiverRocket said:


> I'm a Diehard Stihl fan, but after running one of Dozerdans ported 346s This 261 would have to be something really,really special to impress me.



Or something ported just as well as dozerdans 346...

stock they are both great saws, ported they are both awesome saws....one ported against the other NOT, is not a fair race.


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## H 2 H (Aug 17, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> _*Maybe the handler is clumsy in this case....*_
> 
> .....




*Never* thought of that    

But has he ever held one ?


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## 1Alpha1 (Aug 17, 2013)

I myself, would like to witness first-hand, a race between a box-stock 261 and one that has been MM'd and ported. 

And, I'd like to see two guys who aren't into chainsaws, running them at the same time, through the same log, side by side. 

I'm not much of a betting man, but I'd be willing to bet the difference in time would be negligible. Not enough of a difference to justify the time, money and effort spent on the modded saw. 

I could be wrong, but if I was right and I wasn't there to see the race myself, I'm quite sure no one would tell me. :msp_wink:


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## kb voodoo (Aug 17, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> *Never*But has he ever held one ?



I was wondering the same thing.

Feels pretty damn good to me though.


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## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2013)

walexa07 said:


> Brad, what is the price difference between the Mtronic and the regular?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Waylan


I don't even know yet, lol. I just said GET IT!



Russ Melampy said:


> Brad, I am near you and willing to drive...where did you order it? I last talked to my local dealer off of Cin-Day Rd. and they told me September...I really, really, really, need a 50cc saw for what I do...really hope the mods go well. Please keep me informed! Russ


Come on over



Rudolf73 said:


> Hope you ordered it express Brad! lol


Most anything I order comes the next day. That's the advantage of having a dealer that orders everday, and Bryan Equipment being just a few miles away, right here in the suburbs of Cincinnati.



RiverRocket said:


> I'm a Diehard Stihl fan, but after running one of Dozerdans ported 346s This 261 would have to be something really,really special to impress me.


A ported 261 is awesome, even without M-Tronic.



dano said:


> I myself, would like to witness first-hand, a race between a box-stock 261 and one that has been MM'd and ported.
> 
> And, I'd like to see two guys who aren't into chainsaws, running them at the same time, through the same log, side by side.
> 
> ...


That's all been done. I've built the 261 in stages, and showed the improvements along the way.


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## bryanr2 (Aug 17, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> You regard any Stihl saw a "total flop" :msp_ohmy:
> 
> 
> IMO



I think Niko is pretty fond of the euro 361.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 17, 2013)

dano said:


> I myself, would like to witness first-hand, a race between a box-stock 261 and one that has been MM'd and ported.
> 
> And, I'd like to see two guys who aren't into chainsaws, running them at the same time, through the same log, side by side.
> 
> ...



May your wish be granted. I promise you you'll be amazed at the difference.


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## bryanr2 (Aug 17, 2013)

dano said:


> *I myself, would like to witness first-hand, a race* between a box-stock 261 and one that has been MM'd and ported.
> 
> And, I'd like to see two guys who aren't into chainsaws, running them at the same time, through the same log, side by side.
> 
> ...





Inside the garage? or outside? fastest start up? or fastest in the log?

Wonder if there is a difference in the exhaust note?:hmm3grin2orange:

Definately wrong.... no comparison between stock and ported saws (unless something was terribly wrong)


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## angelo c (Aug 17, 2013)

dano said:


> I myself, would like to witness first-hand, a race between a box-stock 261 and one that has been MM'd and ported.
> 
> And, I'd like to see two guys who aren't into chainsaws, running them at the same time, through the same log, side by side.
> 
> ...




Who's filin' the chains ????


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## SawTroll (Aug 17, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> My Norwegian is impeccable......and the 261 is not a clumsy saw. And this is coming from a Husqvarna guy.



It actually is horrible in that regard - but each to their own. It would be no fun on here, if everyone agreed on everything! :msp_biggrin:


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## kb voodoo (Aug 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> It actually is horrible in that regard - but each to their own. It would be no fun on here, if everyone agreed on everything! :msp_biggrin:



I disagree with you, but I would still buy you a beer.


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## justtools (Aug 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> It would be no fun on here, if everyone agreed on everything! :msp_biggrin:



I can Agree 100% with that statement. Nikko it is 11 pm here/now what time is it in Norway?


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## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> It actually is horrible in that regard - but each to their own. It would be no fun on here, if everyone agreed on everything! :msp_biggrin:



I agree with Niko..... it's fun to pick some and bait the "loyalist". "Brand" remarks are the easiest way to get a rise out of a Stihlhead or a Husq Guy. It makes for a lively conversation when the threads seem to be lack luster on certain occasions. Although, Stihlheads seem to be more sensitive to the "baiting". Some go from being "passionate" to "heated" to easily. It's all in good fun. We all like chainsaws, and talking about chainsaws....... that's why we sit here every night on a internet site closed off from the "real world". Hell, if I was forced to...... I think I could learn to be happy with a Stihl saw or any saw for that matter. Thankfully, I don't have to find out. I just don't care for the "Elitist" mentality that the Stihl brand commands, and is demonstrated by it's fan boys.otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:

Just having fun guys! No harm... No foul here.  Ain't trying to start no chit.


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## kb voodoo (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> I agree with Niko..... it's fun to pick some and bait the "loyalist". "Brand" remarks are the easiest way to get a rise out of a Stihlhead or a Husq Guy. It makes for a lively conversation when the threads seem to be lack luster on certain occasions. Although, Stihlheads seem to be more sensitive to the "baiting". Some go from being "passionate" to "heated" to easily. It's all in good fun. We all like chainsaws, and talking about chainsaws....... that's why we sit here everynight on a internet site closed off from the "real world". Hell, if I was forced to...... I think I could learn to be happy with a Stihl saw or any saw for that matter. Thankfully, I don't have to find out. I just don't care for the "Elitist" mentality that the Stihl brand commands, and is demonstrated by it's fan boys.otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:



I owned, and loved a 345XP forever, and I got my 261 a few weeks ago. I can't for the life of me see how this saw is clumsy.

So far I've felled, limbed, and bucked a 75 foot Hemlock with it, plus a lot of maintenance cutting around the chalet. The 261 is quite a nimble saw. My 346XP is now nothing more than a memory...


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> I owned, and loved a 345XP forever, and I got my 261 a few weeks ago. I can't for the life of me see how this saw is clumsy.
> 
> So far I've felled, limbed, and bucked a 75 foot Hemlock with it, plus a lot of maintenance cutting around the chalet. The 261 is quite a nimble saw. My 346XP is now nothing more than a memory...



You're exactly right. I have owned both, and used both, side by side, working all day in the woods. They both run *and handle* very well.


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## eat a peach (Aug 18, 2013)

*If this one is out....*

look out for the MS241"T" M-tronic!. I hear it is already coming down the pipes. Won't be long till everybody else stops making top handles:hmm3grin2orange:. Poking and prodding aside this should be a very nice and DEPENDABLE saw. C'mon Brad give us that power rush we all crave!ray:


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## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> *I owned, and loved a 345XP forever*, and I got my 261 a few weeks ago. I can't for the life of me see how this saw is clumsy.
> 
> So far I've felled, limbed, and bucked a 75 foot Hemlock with it, plus a lot of maintenance cutting around the chalet. The 261 is quite a nimble saw. My 346XP is now nothing more than a memory...



So is it a 345 or 346? 


I think a 261 would make a phenomenal "one saw plan" for most as it is delivers in the cut. For those of us who catagorize our saws in "classes" the 261 feels more like a 60cc saw than a 50cc saw. For the weight... Id rather have the power of a 60cc saw like my 359s.


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## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> You're exactly right. I have owned both, and used both, side by side, working all day in the woods. They both run *and handle* very well.



Brad- which did you keep though?otstir: I used to keep up with the saws in your sig but your inventory is no longer listed.


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## kb voodoo (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> So is it a 345 or 346?
> 
> 
> I think a 261 would make a phenomenal "one saw plan" for most as it is delivers in the cut. For those of us who catagorize our saws in "classes" the 261 feels more like a 60cc saw than a 50cc saw. For the weight... Id rather have the power of a 60cc saw like my 359s.



Typo.....we're talking 346XP.

Funny you should mention the 359. This 261 is basically replacing mine. It cuts like a demon, and isn't as hard to lug around the uneven ground at my ski chalet.


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## morewood (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> ........ I just don't care for the "Elitist" mentality that the Stihl brand commands, and is demonstrated by it's fan boys.otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Just having fun guys! No harm... No foul here.  Ain't trying to start no chit.



Wow, Stihl geeks are elitist?? You haven't seen snobby, nose high, holier-than-though, elitist until you start fishing around some dufus dressed in his Orvis/Simms/William Joseph gear while fly-fishing (dry fly only for purists), and extoling the virtues of his great ability. All while standing in the middle of the 'hole' casting to the wrong spot.......It bothered me enough to swear I would never fly fish, period. That, my friend, is elitist. By the way, I own four different brands of 'runners'. Equal opportunity for me.

Shea


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## morewood (Aug 18, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> Typo.....we're talking 346XP.
> 
> Funny you should mention the 359. This 261 is basically replacing mine. It cuts like a demon, and isn't as hard to lug around the uneven ground at my ski chalet.



I think you should get an award for using the word 'chalet'....twice. Please explain to the rest of the group what a chalet is, they may not know and are afraid to ask.

Shea


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## kb voodoo (Aug 18, 2013)

morewood said:


> I think you should get an award for using the word 'chalet'....twice. Please explain to the rest of the group what a chalet is, they may not know and are afraid to ask.
> 
> Shea



Basically, it's a house.


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## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

kb voodoo said:


> Typo.....we're talking 346XP.
> 
> *Funny you should mention the 359. This 261 is basically replacing mine*. It cuts like a demon, *and isn't as hard to lug around the uneven ground* at my ski chalet.



-replacing? or substituting?

-as hard to lug around as a 359? We're talking a very small weight difference 11.6 vs 12.1lbs. I'd rather have the extra 9cc. Shouldn't require "lugging" either of them.:msp_thumbup:


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## kb voodoo (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> -replacing? or substituting?
> 
> -as hard to lug around as a 359? We're talking a very small weight difference 11.6 vs 12.1lbs. I'd rather have the extra 9cc. Shouldn't require "lugging" either of them.:msp_thumbup:



The terrain around my place is really steep, and uneven. I dread picking up the 359 with a 20" bar vs the 261 with an 18" bar.

I know on paper the weight difference isn't much, but it seems like a lot in real life.

I'm cleaning up the 359 and getting it ready for sale.

Honestly, it will probably be my last Husqvarna. I'm incredibly impressed by the build quality of this Stihl.


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## morewood (Aug 18, 2013)

I hear you on real world weight. When I go off logging roads to cut firewood I take the smallest/lightest saw I can. Around here, there doesn't seem to be anything but steep. 

Shea


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## porsche965 (Aug 18, 2013)

This should be really good. Subscribed.

What would be interesting is to run a stock 261 against the 261C before doing any engine mods. I'd send you one but just had mine done :msp_thumbsup: !


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 18, 2013)

Not to fan the flames, but I will say this. I worked for two different companies during the Bastrop cleanup. One ran 346's, one ran 261's and both hired idiots. I can tear a 346 down to the crank in 10 minutes, but I've never gotten past the air filter on a 261. Both are great saws, but the 346 just didn't hold up in the real world like the 261 did. Jeff


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## Joe Kidd (Aug 18, 2013)

RiverRocket said:


> I'm a Diehard Stihl fan, but after running one of Dozerdans ported 346s This 261 would have to be something really,really special to impress me.



Lately I've bought whatever is cheaper. My Stihl dealer is msrp only. I do kind of admire the AT's.


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

porsche965 said:


> This should be really good. Subscribed.
> 
> What would be interesting is to run a stock 261 against the 261C before doing any engine mods. I'd send you one but just had mine done :msp_thumbsup: !



Anyone interested in a muffler modded and timing advanced MS261, *non M-Tronic*? You buy the saw for $555 + shipping. The mods are free. I'm not financially prepared to buy both new saws without buyers. I have a 10" Sycamore cant that I could do back to back runs in. I would run both stock, then MMd, then timing advanced, and then finally porting the M-Tronic one. I could borrow a ported non M-Tronic saw for the final comparison, unless the buyer of said saw wants to pay for porting as well. Otherwise, I'll just borrow one already ported.


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## thomasjoven (Aug 18, 2013)

I've been looking for a kid brother to my 461 for jobs with lots of Hemlock. This may be the one! Brad, can't wait to see the vids!


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## LowVolt (Aug 18, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Anyone interested in a muffler modded and timing advanced MS261, *non M-Tronic*? You buy the saw for $555 + shipping. The mods are free. I'm not financially prepared to buy both new saws without buyers. I have a 10" Sycamore cant that I could do back to back runs in. I would run both stock, then MMd, then timing advanced, and then finally porting the M-Tronic one. I could borrow a ported non M-Tronic saw for the final comparison, unless the buyer of said saw wants to pay for porting as well. Otherwise, I'll just borrow one already ported.



I have the ported non mtronic test subject if you need it...


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> I have the ported non mtronic test subject if you need it...



Thanks Rory. I had you in mind


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## LowVolt (Aug 18, 2013)

Oh yeah, what is the cost compared to the non version?


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Oh yeah, what is the cost compared to the non version?



I don't know yet.


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## moody (Aug 18, 2013)

dano said:


> I myself, would like to witness first-hand, a race between a box-stock 261 and one that has been MM'd and ported.
> 
> And, I'd like to see two guys who aren't into chainsaws, running them at the same time, through the same log, side by side.
> 
> ...



I'm sure it's been mentioned but here's a small list of things I'm curious about.

Weight compared to non m tronic
Stock performance compared to non m tonic
And when am I going to get a stab at one


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## SawTroll (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Just fish'n for the Stihlheads.
> *
> Seriously, Stihl is going to get the first 90cc out with computer control. They already got the 70cc 441m out before the 572 (or whatever it is). *Still waiting on the fabled 540xp autotune. Looks like Stihl is getting it together.
> 
> I still see no reason to buy one with the much better brand option of Husqvarna/ Jonsered. otstir::hmm3grin2orange:



The first AT saw was the 576xp AT. :msp_wink:


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## Stihl Crazy (Aug 18, 2013)

Brad, are both versions of 261 going to be available? If I understand correctly up here once the stock of carb 261s are gone it will be CM only.


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## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> The first AT saw was the 576xp AT. :msp_wink:



Forgot about that one bro.... glad you caught it for team Husq.:hmm3grin2orange: Wasn't there another like a 570 that was even earlier rendering of AT?


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## groundup (Aug 18, 2013)

As an owner of 550, and having had the opportunity to run a 261 quite often, I'd take a 261 c any day of the week over the 550.

261 is handier and smoother IMO. However, Husq got the AT in the 50cc saw first which is why I have it.

Can't wait to see pics of the new baby!


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## MindFork (Aug 18, 2013)

groundup said:


> As an owner of 550, and having had the opportunity to run a 261 quite often, I'd take a 261 c any day of the week over the 550.
> 
> 261 is handier and smoother IMO. However, Husq got the AT in the 50cc saw first which is why I have it.
> 
> Can't wait to see pics of the new baby!


**The ground rumbles as Husky lovers assemble to annihilate you**

Seriously though, that is a very interesting comment. Most of the 550 owners talk about how much more "agile and better handling" it is than a 261. I guess it depends on the person.


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## SawTroll (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Forgot about that one bro.... glad you caught it for team Husq.:hmm3grin2orange: Wasn't there another like a 570 that was even earlier rendering of AT?



No, but it was tested out on the 575xp - the first _production_ one was the 576xp thopugh.


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## ernurse (Aug 18, 2013)

It has big shoes to fill to outcut one of Dozerdans 346xp's. I'm sure it will be close.


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## LowVolt (Aug 18, 2013)

So are you taking off work tues to wait for its arrival? You know this saw would be a great candidate for the first "snellerized" decal. You got those things done yet?

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Aahhyes68 (Aug 18, 2013)

I'm in the market for a new saw... Consider this a TAG...


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 18, 2013)

If (big "if") there's anywhere _near_ the improvement between regular carb version and M-Tronic that occurred when the (previously much maligned) 441 got it's CM setup, then we have ourselves a _darned_ interesting saw here.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 18, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> If (big "if") there's anywhere _near_ the improvement between regular carb version and M-Tronic that occurred when the (previously much maligned) 441 got it's CM setup, then we have ourselves a _darned_ interesting saw here.



Have not done a lot of research comparing the 441 vs 441 CM. Was it a night and day difference? I mean what all is different? I know the carbs but then whatever powers the carb right? Possibly different flywheel and ignition?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

ernurse said:


> It has big shoes to fill to outcut one of Dozerdans 346xp's. I'm sure it will be close.



Lol. I'm not going there My comment was simply that a ported 261 is a very strong saw.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

Stihl Crazy said:


> Brad, are both versions of 261 going to be available? If I understand correctly up here once the stock of carb 261s are gone it will be CM only.



That is correct. He said that the regular 261 is being discontinued, just like the regular 441 was.


----------



## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> That is correct. He said that the regular 261 is being discontinued, just like the regular 441 was.



does the 261 command a "buying frenzy" from enthusiast like the 346xp or 200T did when they was discontnued? I haven't followed the model enough to know.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> does the 261 command a "buying frenzy" from enthusiast like the 346xp or 200T did when they was discontnued? I haven't followed the model enough to know.



I can only see that happening if the M-Tronic carb can't fuel the mods.


----------



## bryanr2 (Aug 18, 2013)

see and the 346 crowd........ we grabbed em up b4 the 550 ever got a chance to prove itself as a 50cc contender. the 346 is just that good. to bad the 261 doesnt have the same following.otstir::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> see and the 346 crowd........ we grabbed em up b4 the 550 ever got a chance to prove itself as a 50cc contender. the 346 is just that good. to bad the 261 doesnt have the same following.otstir::hmm3grin2orange:



Now now now, lol. This isn't a whole new saw. It shouldn't be anything more than a new coil and carb. How that made the difference it did with the 441 is beyond me. Yes, it really made that much difference on a stock 441. Once ported, the difference between the two was closer. We'll just have to see. I'll be happy just to see it fuel these mods. No other saw that I build gets as radical of mods as the 261, but, they're required to make it run to it's potential.


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Aug 18, 2013)

I am drooling...


----------



## Rudolf73 (Aug 18, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I am drooling...



Here have some opcorn:


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Aug 18, 2013)

View attachment 310270


Popcorn aint gonna cut it, but this might tide me over...:msp_ohmy:


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 18, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> View attachment 310270
> 
> 
> Popcorn aint gonna cut it, but this might tide me over...:msp_ohmy:



Hoover Dam that looks good!


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Aug 18, 2013)

Oh yes, it was. It's good to live in mesquite country


----------



## Jarh73 (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm going to hold off on the ported 261 and wait and see the outcome on the M-Tronic version. 

Cheers

Justin


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 19, 2013)

opcorn:


----------



## RogueWave (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Now now now, lol. This isn't a whole new saw. It shouldn't be anything more than a new coil and carb. How that made the difference it did with the 441 is beyond me. Yes, it really made that much difference on a stock 441. Once ported, the difference between the two was closer. We'll just have to see. I'll be happy just to see it fuel these mods. No other saw that I build gets as radical of mods as the 261, but, they're required to make it run to it's potential.


Brad, why does a 261 need as radical modifications in your opinion? Emissions, ease of manufacture, reliability
...or??


----------



## justtools (Aug 19, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> see and the 346 crowd........ we grabbed em up b4 the 550 ever got a chance to prove itself as a 50cc contender. the 346 is just that good. to bad the 261 doesnt have the same following.otstir::hmm3grin2orange:



I generally wait to buy something until it has proven itself. Unless it is a Stihl then I know I do not have to wait to purchase. But to each his own.


----------



## wyk (Aug 19, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Oh yes, it was. It's good to live in mesquite country



I miss Louie Muellers over in Taylor, mang.


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 19, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> Brad, why does a 261 need as radical modifications in your opinion? Emissions, ease of manufacture, reliability
> ...or??



I should wait for Brad's answer, but I think (at least partially) its because the 346 set the bar so high. After all, it is the 346 that first made Brad "husqvarna friendly". Even now, nobody had delivered a knockout blow to the 346/2153 as far as 50cc superiority goes - some things better here or there, but nothing definitive. 

I for one would like to see how far a 261C can go without de-strato-ing it, as I do enjoy the benefits of my 441C (strato intact). I don't need to win cookie contests to love my saw, that's why I prefer my 441C that has been soundly whooped by some 372's to my 390XP that has done some whoopin' of it's own.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

RogueWave said:


> Brad, why does a 261 need as radical modifications in your opinion? Emissions, ease of manufacture, reliability
> ...or??



When I bought the first 261, I built it progressively, testing it along the way. I wasn't happy with the results, and kept digging. I got gains with traditional port work, but nothing to get excited about. It wasn't until I gutted all strato dividers, from the filter adapter to the cylinder, that I got the gains I was looking for. That includes grinding a ton of material from the intake flange of the cylinder, allowing fuel to enter the strato ports. Basically, I'm using the strato ports as additional transfers. Without these mods, it simply won't hold the RPMs in the cut that I'm looking for.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> I should wait for Brad's answer, but I think (at least partially) its because the 346 set the bar so high. After all, it is the 346 that first made Brad "husqvarna friendly". Even now, nobody had delivered a knockout blow to the 346/2153 as far as 50cc superiority goes - some things better here or there, but nothing definitive.
> 
> I for one would like to see how far a 261C can go without de-strato-ing it, as I do enjoy the benefits of my 441C (strato intact). I don't need to win cookie contests to love my saw, that's why I prefer my 441C that has been soundly whooped by some 372's to my 390XP that has done some whoopin' of it's own.


Sounds like what you want is one with the squish tightened, a muffler mod, and timing advance. That alone makes a significant improvement. I wouldn't waste your money on porting of you don't go all the way with it. I won't take your money for a port job that I don't think is worth it. This would be one of those cases. I'll be sure to include this setup in my testing. It would make a great value for the end user.


----------



## wyk (Aug 19, 2013)

justtools said:


> I generally wait to buy something until it has proven itself. Unless it is a Stihl then I know I do not have to wait to purchase. But to each his own.



Well, you had to wait until they licensed the AT from Husqvarna ;O)


----------



## Philbert (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> It wasn't until I gutted all strato dividers, from the filter adapter to the cylinder, that I got the gains I was looking for.



Has this been consistent for all Strato saws - the need to gut all the Strato stuff for big gains? Or can some of them keep the efficiency while kicking out extra power?

Thanks. 

Philbert


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

Other strato saws have responded well with more traditional porting. The 441 runs fantastic, as does the 362. Talk to Stihlman441 about his saws. I'm pretty sure his strongest 70cc class saw is a 441C that I built for him. He has videos of them all in big Aussie hardwood. He can correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## CenterTree (Aug 19, 2013)

Just wondering... why is the 261c not on the Stihl website yet? (did I miss it?)

I have been looking to buy the Husky 550xp, (dealer nearby is getting one in next week) but I am not against waiting a little bit to see this "new" Stihl.

otstir:I am certain both of these saws are on par with each other.... Right?? otstir:


Right?  opcorn:


----------



## deye223 (Aug 19, 2013)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:
opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## 1Zach1 (Aug 19, 2013)

CenterTree said:


> Just wondering... why is the 261c not on the Stihl website yet? (did I miss it?)
> 
> I have been looking to buy the Husky 550xp, (dealer nearby is getting one in next week) but I am not against waiting a little bit to see this "new" Stihl.
> 
> ...


It's on the main Stihl site Chain saw STIHL MS 261 C-M with M-Tronic | STIHL | Stihl, Viking, chain saws, brushcutters, hedge trimmers, clearing saws, high-pressure cleaners, lawn mowers, trimmers
Not sure why it isn't on Stihl USA yet, I'm guessing those dealers that are getting them now have big time connections with Stihl so are getting them a little earlier than most.


----------



## Jlhotstick3 (Aug 19, 2013)

Can't wait to see this!!


----------



## Highdesignfool (Aug 19, 2013)

View attachment 310369


----------



## Philbert (Aug 19, 2013)

There will be a STIHL booth at the Minnesota State Fair this week.

I will ask about this saw.

Bet a Pronto Pup that I will get a blank stare.

I just don't know if the information does not get filtered down fast enough, or if that is their way of saying, "_Yeah, we know about it, but our regional distributor is not stocking it yet, so we are pretending to be uninformed_"

A.S. keeps its members on the cutting edge of chainsaws ! (I think that is a good thing, right?)

Philbert


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

*Good News / Bad News*

Good news: I should have the saw tomorrow.

Bad news: This will be the only one for now in this area.

My dealer was told Friday that the saw was available. He tried to order it this morning and it wasn't in the system. So, he called up the distributor. They tried to tell him he couldn't have it. Fortunately, he was able to get them to ship this one saw. Bottom line, no more will be sold until all regular MS261 saws are sold, which is standard Stihl practice.

My price on this saw is $59 more than the old saw. I don't know what list price is.


----------



## wyk (Aug 19, 2013)

Philbert said:


> There will be a STIHL booth at the Minnesota State Fair this week.
> 
> I will ask about this saw.
> 
> ...



Ask him about this:

Stihl MS 661 - Bilder &bull; Motorsägen-Portal


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

I did. Nothing yet on it.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 19, 2013)

reindeer said:


> Ask him about this:
> 
> Stihl MS 661 - Bilder &bull; Motorsägen-Portal



Ya! Wenn er kann Deutsch sprechen! (these guys come from Wisconsin - it's hard enough as it is!)

Philbert


----------



## opinion (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> My price on this saw is $59 more than the old saw. I don't know what list price is.




I guess it's different between the distributors, for us it's a $30 difference. ms 261 16" dsrp is 549.95, cm 16" is 579.95.


----------



## MindFork (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Good news: I should have the saw tomorrow.
> 
> Bad news: This will be the only one for now in this area. Bottom line, no more will be sold until all regular MS261 saws are sold, which is standard Stihl practice.


Hmm...are they going to do any "close out" pricing on the existing 261s? How long before average joes can get the M version?


----------



## porsche965 (Aug 19, 2013)

Hurry in guys, Stihl always does a year end or first of the year price increase. Least that has been my experience. 

Brad is very correct on the availability in this region  There actually could be a few months wait if the warehouse has much inventory still sitting there. Thanks Brad and your Dealer for making this one available. 

Why do I think Stihl and Bryan Equipment will be watching this thread? :wink2:


----------



## CenterTree (Aug 19, 2013)

porsche965 said:


> Hurry in guys, Stihl always does a year end or first of the year price increase. Least that has been my experience.
> 
> Brad is very correct on the availability in this region  *There actually could be a few months wait if the warehouse has much inventory still sitting there. *Thanks Brad and your Dealer for making this one available.
> 
> Why do I think Stihl and Bryan Equipment will be watching this thread? :wink2:



I can't wait forever,,,LOL. Guess I will take the 550xp.



Anyone think that Stihl is just "playing" a marketing game by making the item more desirable with a fabricated _"this item is hard to get"_ hype. 

A lot of people will want what they can't have and will pay extra to get it too.


----------



## Joe Kidd (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Bottom line, no more will be sold until all regular MS261 saws are sold, which is standard Stihl practice.



Well that's a bunch of crap.  I'm glad they don't sell automobiles otherwise they'd be out of business.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

opinion said:


> I guess it's different between the distributors, for us it's a $30 difference. ms 261 16" dsrp is 549.95, cm 16" is 579.95.





MindFork said:


> Hmm...are they going to do any "close out" pricing on the existing 261s? How long before average joes can get the M version?



I seriously doubt that there's going to be any kind of sale to clear out the current MS261 inventory. As far as the price difference, I can only tell you what I was quoted. There is no markup on the saw on my end. The price you quoted for the MS261C is what I was quoted. I pay less than your price for the MS261, $30 less. Then there's tax on top of that.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

Joe Kidd said:


> Well that's a bunch of crap.  I'm glad they don't sell automobiles otherwise they'd be out of business.



I will explain to my dealer, that if they won't sell more, they're not going to make up for those sales in regular 261 sales. They're lost sales, plain and simple. Maybe the distributor will work with us, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2013)

CenterTree said:


> Anyone think that Stihl is just "playing" a marketing game by making the item more desirable with a fabricated _"this item is hard to get"_ hype.
> 
> A lot of people will want what they can't have and will pay extra to get it too.



I hardly think so. This doesn't help their sales. If anything, it hurts them. It is what it is. They don't have to sell them until they want to. Honestly, it makes sense to clear out the existing inventory first. Us CAD addicts are in the 1% club


----------



## Joe Kidd (Aug 19, 2013)

MindFork said:


> Hmm...are they going to do any "close out" pricing on the existing 261s? How long before average joes can get the M version?



Yeah. I'm a average Joe too!


----------



## Philbert (Aug 19, 2013)

(You guys know that the only reason for the 'C-M' version is so that the NSA can track your chainsaw use, right ? The next step will be to start registering your saws . . . .)


----------



## Doug Fir (Aug 19, 2013)

porsche965 said:


> ...There actually could be a few months wait if the warehouse has much inventory still sitting there. ...



My local Stihl dealer was selling the 260 as the "current" 50cc saw until late last year. Around these parts, we should see the new 261 in 2016 or there abouts, IF we're lucky!! :bang:

Hey, at least we now have touch-tone phones!! :msp_w00t: I hear that there's this new "wireless" service coming soon to our area. What the heck is that?!?

Doug


----------



## MindFork (Aug 19, 2013)

Philbert said:


> (You guys know that the only reason for the 'C-M' version is so that the NSA can track your chainsaw use, right ? The next step will be to start registering your saws . . . .)


Yea, but the upside is that my smart-saw can communicate with my smart phone and my smart tv so that I always know what my A/F ratio and RPMs are. 

Big brother loves us...


----------



## CenterTree (Aug 19, 2013)

Philbert said:


> (You guys know that the only reason for the 'C-M' version is so that the NSA can track your chainsaw use, right ? The next step will be to start registering your saws . . . .)




Maybe Big Gov will put a limit on the size (capacity) of chains we can run too.
A license to use and a waiting period to buy might be a good thing too.:rolleyes2:


I keep my saws near my bed. That way I can implement the "Castle Doctrine" if need be.


----------



## Philip Wheelock (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> ...Bad news ... no more will be sold until all regular MS261 saws are sold, which is standard Stihl practice...



Seems like Husqvarna might be better suited for those who use the latest technology, while Stihl isn't losing any sleep by selling to the latest _proven_ technology crowd. The current 261 isn't exactly chopped liver.


----------



## sunfish (Aug 19, 2013)

This is entertaining! opcorn:


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 19, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I hardly think so. This doesn't help their sales. If anything, it hurts them. It is what it is. They don't have to sell them until they want to. Honestly, it makes sense to clear out the existing inventory first. Us CAD addicts are in the 1% club



I totally agree.

They were selling the 441 and the 441cm at the same time right? Maybe that then discontinuing the 441 made it difficult to get rid of the 441 inventory. Lesson learned?


----------



## MCW (Aug 19, 2013)

Pfffft. You know as well as I do Brad that if these 261's were so good then they wouldn't need modifying...

I used this comment as an excuse to subscribe...


----------



## groundup (Aug 19, 2013)

CenterTree said:


> Maybe Big Gov will put a limit on the size (capacity) of chains we can run too.
> A license to use and a waiting period to buy might be a good thing too.:rolleyes2:
> 
> 
> I keep my saws near my bed. That way I can implement the "Castle Doctrine" if need be.



Don't even joke about that; living in MD I could see our governor doing something like that

You have it much better in PA


----------



## Philbert (Aug 19, 2013)

MCW said:


> Pfffft. You know as well as I do Brad that if these 261's were so good then they wouldn't need modifying...



Brad would modify his toothbrush just to show that he can . . . .

Philbert


----------



## MCW (Aug 19, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Brad would modify his toothbrush just to show that he can . . . .
> 
> Philbert



He did. Needed crowns after smoking his enamel off.


----------



## RogueWave (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> When I bought the first 261, I built it progressively, testing it along the way. I wasn't happy with the results, and kept digging. I got gains with traditional port work, but nothing to get excited about. It wasn't until I gutted all strato dividers, from the filter adapter to the cylinder, that I got the gains I was looking for. That includes grinding a ton of material from the intake flange of the cylinder, allowing fuel to enter the strato ports. Basically, I'm using the strato ports as additional transfers. Without these mods, it simply won't hold the RPMs in the cut that I'm looking for.


Thanks for the reply Brad. With my limited knowledge of chainsaws and two-strokes, this says strato engines, can rob power for the quest of better fuel effiency and better emissions. Yes or? In general terms here...


----------



## H 2 H (Aug 20, 2013)

amazing thread


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> amazing thread



Glad you like it.


----------



## 1Zach1 (Aug 20, 2013)

The suspense is killing me!

Also, when they say that the 261 must be sold out, are they talking about regional distributors or the entire country? Seems odd they would force certain markets without any 261's to wait for a different one before allowing the C to be sold.


----------



## porsche965 (Aug 20, 2013)

It's only going to get better from here.

Today is the day for the 261C right? I'm not anxious....I'm really anxious!


----------



## Philbert (Aug 20, 2013)

1Zach1 said:


> Also, when they say that the 261 must be sold out, are they talking about regional distributors or the entire country?



That's how it had happened before. STIHL sells through regional distributors who have a lot of discretion, as I understand it. Some may choose to offer the models side-by-side. Others want to clear out old inventory first. 

So a new model might be available in some states earlier than others. 

When the 261's came out we worked with the regional distributors to find remaining MS260's on dealer shelves when the warehouse was empty. 

Philbert


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

1Zach1 said:


> The suspense is killing me!
> 
> Also, when they say that the 261 must be sold out, are they talking about regional distributors or the entire country? Seems odd they would force certain markets without any 261's to wait for a different one before allowing the C to be sold.


I'm sure it's only regional.


----------



## BloodOnTheIce (Aug 20, 2013)

Philbert said:


> That's how it had happened before. STIHL sells through regional distributors who have a lot of discretion, as I understand it. Some may choose to offer the models side-by-side. Others want to clear out old inventory first.
> 
> So a new model might be available in some states earlier than others.
> 
> ...



That's correct, and it seems like the few independently owned distributors Brad's being Bryant
Equipment. Tend to keep less units on hand so they have a quicker transition to new models 
over Mid Atlantic Stihl who has more on hand and takes longer to switch over.


----------



## H 2 H (Aug 20, 2013)

Shop in Woolley had 4 MS 261 on the shelf plus a few in the back Saturday Morning now down to 2 MS 261 more will be there tomorrow at 11:00 am (+/- a few minutes)

I'm kinda waiting to demo one of the new 261 :msp_ohmy:


----------



## Stihl Crazy (Aug 20, 2013)

We got 12 261 M-tronics this morning. Selling at $649 with Wood Pro kit. Same price as regular 261's were last week.


----------



## opinion (Aug 20, 2013)

Same as the old.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 20, 2013)

Come on!!!! There are 12+ members at moment wanting pics! 

PICS, PICS, PICS!!!!!

Everyone together, PICS, PICS, PICS!!!!


----------



## Trx250r180 (Aug 20, 2013)

my saw shop has one on the shelf ,i didn't snap any pics ,looked just like the reg one minus the tag on the recoil cover


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 20, 2013)

opinion said:


> Same as the old.



Take its top off and let's see the difference!


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

Sounds like they're letting them out. That's good news for everyone.

Is there something you guys were wanting to see?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Sounds like they're letting them out. That's good news for everyone.
> 
> Is there something you guys were wanting to see?:hmm3grin2orange:



Not just see, but hear. Brad don't be playing with us now, just give us what we want!

:jester:


----------



## jus2fat (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Sounds like they're letting them out. That's good news for everyone.
> 
> Is there something you guys were wanting to see?:hmm3grin2orange:


YES..!! - We want to see the 'freaking' saw...and see (and hear) it cutting some 'freaking' wood...!!!..

J2F


----------



## jtracy1223 (Aug 20, 2013)

:welcome: :kilt: :deadhorse:




blsnelling said:


> Sounds like they're letting them out. That's good news for everyone.
> 
> Is there something you guys were wanting to see?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

Ok, ok, ok! I'm working on it!!!!!:jester:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Ok, ok, ok! I'm working on it!!!!!:jester:



did you pick one up ?


----------



## Jarh73 (Aug 20, 2013)

This is killing me slowly!! LOL

Really looking forward to seeing it in action!

Is it rated at the same power as the, now old model?

Cheers

Justin


----------



## Joe Kidd (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Ok, ok, ok! I'm working on it!!!!!:jester:



What's taking so long? Do you outsource all your work?


----------



## opinion (Aug 20, 2013)

Really not much to see. I'm sure the Snellerizer will have detailed pics by the end of the night!


----------



## sgrizz (Aug 20, 2013)

Stihl Crazy said:


> We got 12 261 M-tronics this morning. Selling at $649 with Wood Pro kit. Same price as regular 261's were last week.



How many of you guys are planning a road trip to see Stihl crazy ? My 261 is still fairly new so I will wait to see how the 261 mtronic performs before trading it in for the 261c:msp_biggrin:


----------



## jus2fat (Aug 20, 2013)

Joe Kidd said:


> What's taking so long? Do you outsource all your work?


Of course he does...to western Kentucky midgets...I won't name names...just the 'usual suspects'...:msp_wink:

Just jokin' and passing time - I'm sure Brad will give us something to view later tonight.

J2F


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 20, 2013)

Where are the holes to adjust the carb?








:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sgrizz (Aug 20, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Where are the holes to adjust the carb?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You gotta drill your own holes.:jester:


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

An empty stomach takes precedence They're coming!


----------



## mtrees (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> An empty stomach takes precedence They're coming!



For the love of god man!!! I need to see and hear it!!!:bang:


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

Not much new here, which is a VERY good thing. As hoped, there appears to be nothing really changed except for the carb, and of course the matching coil.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)




----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

What all this sameness means, is that we're good to proceed with the same mods I've been doing to the MS261. Fortunately, the intake tract and carb are the same design as before, such that the dividers can be removed and more fuel fed to the engine.

I have video of the first startup and running. Unfortunately, I can't find my power cable. That cable is required to get the vids off the camera. I'll keep looking. Sorry.

There will be no vids in wood until later in the week, perhaps Thurday night. My truck is waiting for me to install new brakes on it in the driveway. Sometimes life dictates what you'll do, rather than what you want to do











Good old Ohio salt


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

I really like the kill switch. It's a momentary switch, which means it returns to the run position as soon as you let go of it. I'm not so fond of the new stamped dawg.


----------



## H 2 H (Aug 20, 2013)

Yep some times there more important things than chain saws


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Yep some times there more important things than chain saws



It's hard to believe isn't it


----------



## elanjoe (Aug 20, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Yep some times there more important things than chain saws



are you alright?


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Aug 20, 2013)

Niiiice!!!!


----------



## H 2 H (Aug 20, 2013)

elanjoe said:


> are you alright?




LOL

I have to mow my lawn here in a few minutes make a new fire wood rack after that then make dinner some were in between that other stuff


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

A phone call to Florida revealed that I left the charger there on vacation So, while not the first start, I shot another on my DSLR. The saw was cold, second start since new, and started on the first pull. Compression is nearly 165 PSI with no run time on it.







[video=youtube_share;ghyFTgnuMyo]http://youtu.be/ghyFTgnuMyo[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

OK, now I'm off to work on the truck, lol.


----------



## 1Alpha1 (Aug 20, 2013)

Couldn't help but notice that carb body with *CHINA* stamped on it. :taped:


----------



## MindFork (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> A phone call to Florida revealed that I left the charger there on vacation So, while not the first start, I shot another on my DSLR. The saw was cold, second start since new, and started on the first pull. Compression is nearly 165 PSI with no run time on it.


Sounds very...ordinary. Looking forward to hearing it after porting.


----------



## Joe Kidd (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> What all this sameness means, is that we're good to proceed with the same mods I've been doing to the MS261. Fortunately, the intake tract and carb are the same design as before, such that the dividers can be removed and more fuel fed to the engine.
> 
> I have video of the first startup and running. Unfortunately, I can't find my power cable. That cable is required to get the vids off the camera. I'll keep looking. Sorry.
> 
> ...



Looks like they failed from lack of lube.  Heck, leave it and drive your wifes.


----------



## Joe Kidd (Aug 20, 2013)

dano said:


> Couldn't help but notice that carb body with *CHINA* stamped on it. :taped:



Cylinder probably has a P.R.C. stamp on it too.


----------



## john_bud (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> OK, now I'm off to work on the truck, lol.



Fyi.... if you dremel the ears of the pads open so they can be finger slid easily, they won't stick like that. Also clean and rust proof paint under the stainless slide they ride on. That rusts, gets bigger and they stick. I also grease with syn caliper grease in the fall. My first chev brakes went 30k miles, 2nd set is closing in on 100k.

Why they dont galvanize them.....


----------



## Stihl Crazy (Aug 20, 2013)

sgrizz said:


> How many of you guys are planning a road trip to see Stihl crazy ? My 261 is still fairly new so I will wait to see how the 261 mtronic performs before trading it in for the 261c:msp_biggrin:



You don't have to come to me. Every dealer up here can have them now. Regular 261 is long gone.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 20, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> LOL
> 
> I have to mow my lawn here in a few minutes make a new fire wood rack after that then make dinner some were in between that other stuff



Dang, that is what I just got done doing!

Agreed. Stamped spike :msp_thumbdn:. Momentary cut-off switch :msp_thumbup:.

Dual spike kit would fix that.........I am going to hear it from SawTroll on that comment.


----------



## 1Alpha1 (Aug 20, 2013)

How many Chinese-made parts would have to appear on a Stihl product, before you started* NOT* buying their product any more? 

One would think the cheaper that Stihl could have parts made in China, the MSRP on their products would drop in relationship. Yup......one would think.............


----------



## Betts04 (Aug 20, 2013)

Stihl Crazy said:


> You don't have to come to me. Every dealer up here can have them now. Regular 261 is long gone.



not around here, the local dealers still haven't put the new one on the shelves.



now I want to see how it performs against a 550xp.


----------



## Stihl Crazy (Aug 20, 2013)

Betts04 said:


> not around here, the local dealers still haven't put the new one on the shelves.
> 
> 
> 
> now I want to see how it performs against a 550xp.



We ordered 12 regular 261s Friday. The warehouse was empty and we got the CM instead. When your dealer reorders the CM be sent.


----------



## Redoakranch (Aug 20, 2013)

Ive never had a 261 in hand, are the screws for the top cover quarter turn or regular old screws? Probably the least important thing on the saw but looks like a step backwards compared to the 260 or Husky.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 20, 2013)

Redoakranch said:


> Ive never had a 261 in hand, are the screws for the top cover quarter turn or regular old screws? Probably the least important thing on the saw but looks like a step backwards compared to the 260 or Husky.



1/4 turn, not screws.


----------



## XSKIER (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I really like the kill switch. It's a momentary switch, which means it returns to the run position as soon as you let go of it. I'm not so fond of the new stamped dawg.



Do you still have to squeeze the trigger to move the lever to the start position?


----------



## Betts04 (Aug 20, 2013)

Stihl Crazy said:


> We ordered 12 regular 261s Friday. The warehouse was empty and we got the CM instead. When your dealer reorders the CM be sent.



guess I will stop in on the way home tomorrow and see. I am itching to buy a new 50cc saw, been waiting to see how the new saw works out.


----------



## CWME (Aug 20, 2013)

Saw one on the shelf this afternoon. $569


----------



## porsche965 (Aug 20, 2013)

That stamped bucking spike looks cheap. I can't believe they did that. On a $600 saw. That's not right. 

Dual dogs here we come.

And the suspense builds.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

XSKIER said:


> Do you still have to squeeze the trigger to move the lever to the start position?



Yes, just like the 441, only with the momentary kill switch.

The truck is finally done. Rotated the tires and bled new fluid through all for corners.


----------



## XSKIER (Aug 20, 2013)

Nice. Thanks.


----------



## Termite (Aug 20, 2013)

There will be no vids in wood until later in the week, perhaps Thurday night. My truck is waiting for me to install new brakes on it in the driveway. Sometimes life dictates what you'll do, rather than what you want to do







You need one of these Brad, so you can work in the standing position.


----------



## wigglesworth (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> What all this sameness means, is that we're good to proceed with the same mods I've been doing to the MS261. Fortunately, the intake tract and carb are the same design as before, such that the dividers can be removed and more fuel fed to the engine.



So you think the M-tronic system will compensate for gutting the strato stuff?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> So you think the M-tronic system will compensate for gutting the strato stuff?



I really have no idea. There's only one way to find out


----------



## john_bud (Aug 20, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I really have no idea. There's only one way to find out



Gutsy~!


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

john_bud said:


> Gutsy~!



Not nearly as risky as the first 261 when I went out on a limb and gutted the strato!


----------



## MCW (Aug 21, 2013)

A judge somewhere really needs to ban you from going within 100 feet of a porting tool Brad


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 21, 2013)

MCW said:


> A judge somewhere really needs to ban you from going within 100 feet of a porting tool Brad



Wait, not yet. At least until I see what a 261C can do with a little massaging.


----------



## MCW (Aug 21, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Wait, not yet. At least until I see what a 261C can do with a little massaging.



Fair call. I'll post Brad some more carbide burrs shortly...


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

MCW said:


> A judge somewhere really needs to ban you from going within 100 feet of a porting tool Brad



Why? Are you scared you'll finally have to face the truth about the 261?


----------



## MCW (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Why? Are you scared you'll finally have to face the truth about the 261?



When I can throw a baseball down the intake and not touch the sides get back to me


----------



## john_bud (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Not nearly as risky as the first 261 when I went out on a limb and gutted the strato!



For the newb...

What is the concept behind strato (dual level split) intake? Is it better charge mixing? More turbulent tumble? Higher torq ? Lower emissions due to ... what?


----------



## Philbert (Aug 21, 2013)

john_bud said:


> For the newb...
> 
> What is the concept behind strato (dual level split) intake? Is it better charge mixing? More turbulent tumble? Higher torq ? Lower emissions due to ... what?



[video=youtube;IY7zQKw4qsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY7zQKw4qsQ[/video]

Think of it as layered, levels of gasses (hence the 'strato' name).
The upper layer is mostly air, which helps to push the exhaust gas out, without exhausting unburnt fuel.
The lower level is air mixed with 2-cycle mix, which combines with the remaining air for combustion. The idea is to prevent pushing unburnt fuel mix out with the exhaust.

Philbert


----------



## MindFork (Aug 21, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Think of it as layered, levels of gasses (hence the 'strato' name).
> The upper layer is mostly air, which helps to push the exhaust gas out, without exhausting unburnt fuel.
> The lower level is air mixed with 2-cycle mix, which combines with the remaining air for combustion. The idea is to prevent pushing unburnt fuel mix out with the exhaust.
> 
> Philbert


Thanks for that! Now we need something similar that shows what Brad does to "de-strato" the saw for super-power.


----------



## wyk (Aug 21, 2013)

MCW said:


> When I can throw a baseball down the intake and not touch the sides get back to me



I know a girl like that.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

MindFork said:


> Thanks for that! Now we need something similar that shows what Brad does to "de-strato" the saw for super-power.



That's all documented in the thread where I modded the first 261.


----------



## MindFork (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> That's all documented in the thread where I modded the first 261.


I did some searching and found this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/153482.htm

Is that the one?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

MindFork said:


> I did some searching and found this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/153482.htm
> 
> Is that the one?


That's it. It's a long read, but it details the step by step process of how I came to mod the 261 like I do to this day.


----------



## wyk (Aug 21, 2013)

dano said:


> Couldn't help but notice that carb body with *CHINA* stamped on it. :taped:



You should see what's stamped on STIHL chainsaw bars and chain packaging, and chassis, and er...


----------



## Stihl Crazy (Aug 21, 2013)

Brad, where is your CM made US or Germany?


----------



## MindFork (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> That's it. It's a long read, but it details the step by step process of how I came to mod the 261 like I do to this day.


That was a pretty messed up thread. I just skipped everyone else's posts except yours. My favorite part was the before and after pictures of the strato to non-strato ports. The little "face" in the ports went from  to :msp_scared:

Just out of curiosity...What was the "fuel economy" impact of the mods?


----------



## H 2 H (Aug 21, 2013)

View attachment 310718


Man can't wait to run my MS 261 (some simple mod's to it) and the new MS 261 against each other :msp_smile:


----------



## Jlhotstick3 (Aug 21, 2013)

Are you gonna de-strato the m-tronic brad?


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 21, 2013)

Jlhotstick3 said:


> Are you gonna de-strato the m-tronic brad?



I'd frankly like to see how it (1.) runs before mod's (2.) run's after porting w'out de-strato-ing first.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

Jlhotstick3 said:


> Are you gonna de-strato the m-tronic brad?





Officer's Match said:


> I'd frankly like to see how it (1.) runs before mod's (2.) run's after porting w'out de-strato-ing first.



IMHO, it's not worth your money to port, if not gutting the strato. If you followed my original 261 build thread, the saw was a disappointment with mods, until I gutted the strato. Yes, gains were made, but not to my liking. I'll tighten the squish, mod the muffler, and advance the ignition on a 261 for a reasonable price, but I won't port one unless it goes all the way. 

This 261C will be tested:
1. Stock
2. Muffler modded
3. Squish tightened
4. Timing advanced (This saw might not like the timing advanced)
5. Full porting, w/strato gutted.


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 21, 2013)

Just my hunch, but I'm real interested to see condition #3 above.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Just my hunch, but I'm real interested to see condition #3 above.



I tested setup #4 when I built LowVolt's saw. IIRC, it was good for 20% over stock. It makes for a nice running saw. The squish is really loose on these. Hopefully Rory will come along and correct my figure above.


----------



## Tnshaker (Aug 21, 2013)

Real question for now is how does the 261c stock run compared to stock 261?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

Tnshaker said:


> Real question for now is how does the 261c stock run compared to stock 261?



Fortunately, a new regular MS261 is supposed to be heading my way tomorrow. All of my testing will be in the same cant, so will have a real good idea. All testing won't be on the same day, but, will be in the same wood, with the same B&C.


----------



## Tnshaker (Aug 21, 2013)

Now we are talking..something to hold us over till u get that baby ported. I am not sure the m tronic will fuel it enough to run with ur regular ported 261. I ran one of those and that thing was bad news for such a small saw. It cut through 18" would like a big saw


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

I'd love to compare it to a 550, but that's not going to happen. I thought I had a deal on a 2253, but that fell through.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I tested setup #4 when I built LowVolt's saw. IIRC, it was good for 20% over stock. It makes for a nice running saw. The squish is really loose on these. Hopefully Rory will come along and correct my figure above.



What am I, your friggin secretary? This is your video.........

[video=youtube;z5DVUptVHCY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5DVUptVHCY&feature=player_embedded[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> What am I, your friggin secretary? This is your video.........



No, you're my female....errrr nevermind You want this cylinder back or not?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> 1. Stock
> 2. Muffler modded
> 3. Squish tightened
> 4. Timing advanced (This saw might not like the timing advanced)
> 5. Full porting, w/strato gutted.



So #4 is +20% over #2.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> No, you're my female....errrr nevermind You want this cylinder back or not?:hmm3grin2orange:




Umm weird.......

Anyway, you tell me. Did you clean it better than the previous goofball that worked on it? Or is it junk?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Umm weird.......
> 
> Anyway, you tell me. Did you clean it better than the previous goofball that worked on it? Or is it junk?



Yeah, I shouldn't have gone there, lol. 

Yes, it's much better than it was. I think it will be fine.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Yeah, I shouldn't have gone there, lol.
> 
> Yes, it's much better than it was. I think it will be fine.



Fine like it won't scratch up another $80 piston? Did you hit it with a light hone? 

Last question......continue on with 261cm talk.


----------



## CR500 (Aug 21, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> IMHO, it's not worth your money to port, if not gutting the strato. If you followed my original 261 build thread, the saw was a disappointment with mods, until I gutted the strato. Yes, gains were made, but not to my liking. I'll tighten the squish, mod the muffler, and advance the ignition on a 261 for a reasonable price, but I won't port one unless it goes all the way.
> 
> This 261C will be tested:
> 1. Stock
> ...



Another hit or miss with timing huh lol? I tried my timing advance on my 441 you re-did and you were right it runs better in the stock posistion lol


----------



## lly_duramax (Aug 22, 2013)

Brad,
IIRC you put an 044 carb on the 1st 261 you built at the end of the thread and it looked super strong. I'm thinking if the m-tronic can fuel it like an 044 carb it will beat the snot out of a ported 261 with the stock carb.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

I only replaced that carb because I ruined the original trying to mod it. How much that added I'm not sure. What I do know, is that they run super strong with the stock carb. Swapping carbs is not a service I offer, so is really a moot point. Unless the venturi is larger, i don't see how the carb alone can make it make more power.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Just for the record, I'm not expecting this saw to make more power than the original version after porting. In stock form, maybe. Mods seem to level the playing field with the 441s, although I have not compared them back to back. An engine is an air pump. The engines are the same. The difference I'd in the state of tune. That is all optimized as part of the porting process. For example, timing advance alone is worth significant gains on many, not all, saws. MTronic does that for us, real time.


----------



## Highdesignfool (Aug 22, 2013)

If plans fall through with the stock 261 to compare with, 
I'll take up your offer to muffler mod mine. It's brand new with only a few tanks through it. I can send it off on a hurry.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 22, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Fortunately, a new regular MS261 is supposed to be heading my way tomorrow. All of my testing will be in the same cant, so will have a real good idea. All testing won't be on the same day, but, will be in the same wood, with the same B&C.



Its on its way brad..be easy on her shes brand new


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Its on its way brad..be easy on her shes brand new



I am VERY peticular about my saws. Don't worry it is in good hands.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> I am VERY peticular about my saws. Don't worry it is in good hands.



Yours has been run and is cleaned back up. I didn't think about it until later, but I used your chain, which means I'll have to keep that chain until I'm done with this. I'll be done within the next few days though.

Videos coming.

1. MS261C - Stock
2. MS261C - Muffler Modded
3. MS261 - Ported

Tomorrow/Saturday, I'll be cutting the cylinder base, and retesting. I'll then advance the ignition and retest. After that, it's time to port it. The new regular MS261 is on it's way, so will be getting the vids of it stock, MMd, and timing advanced.

I'm just beginning the editing process, so it'll be a while.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 22, 2013)

Ive always wanted a ported 261..ive been waiting for quite a while..the suspense of these results is killin me already. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ive always wanted a ported 261..ive been waiting for quite a while..the suspense of these results is killin me already. :msp_thumbsup:



As it should be. 

What size bar and chain are you running? 3/8" or .325?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Stock MS261C. 18" B&C. Stihl RSC .325 chain. 7-pin rim.

[video=youtube_share;oKnLPcgZKls]http://youtu.be/oKnLPcgZKls[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Modding the muffler made a huge difference. Throttle response and power both improved significantly. BTW, I've not yet timed any of these.

[video=youtube_share;GhKPGl0givE]http://youtu.be/GhKPGl0givE[/video]


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> As it should be.
> 
> What size bar and chain are you running? 3/8" or .325?



Ill be runnin 16 and 18 .325...ill be swappin between 7 and 8 pins to see whats what.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Here's LowVolt's ported and fully modded regular MS261. This is with the same sprocket, bar, chain, and fuel.

[video=youtube_share;Y46JBs2r4T0]http://youtu.be/Y46JBs2r4T0[/video]


----------



## Slackerjpt (Aug 22, 2013)

I find this to be very exciting stuff. Do I have CAD?

opcorn:


----------



## Philbert (Aug 22, 2013)

So the muffler modded only CM appeared to be a bit slower than the fully modded 261. Does the CM model have to 'learn' (adjust) to the new conditions?

Philbert


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

Here are the times that I recorded using my dumb phone's stopwatch. 

Stock MS261CM:

3.84
3.91
4.55
4.68
4.56

MM MS261CM:

2.94
2.94
2.87
3.00
2.73
2.92

Ported MS261 (Rich):

2.50
2.17
2.17
1.99
2.09
2.11

Ported MS261 (Lean):

2.04
1.98
2.11
1.91
1.92
1.85


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

I didn't notice the knot when cutting with the stock saw until it was too late. Regardless, the muffler mod made a WORLD of difference. With the numbers we have, it's like a 32% gain!


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Here's LowVolt's ported and fully modded regular MS261. This is with the same sprocket, bar, chain, and fuel.



Did you swap out my sprocket brad? I was running an 8 pin.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Looks like Rory's saw is about 32% faster than the MMd 261C. 

Look at the difference re-tuning made. That's why it's so important to have a saw tuned right when making comparisons. In this case, it made for a 6-7% improvement.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Did you swap out my sprocket brad? I was running an 8 pin.



I did, just to keep everything even. I'll be running a 7-pin for all 261 cuts. When I'm done with the 261C, and if I have enough wood, I'll try to test 7-pin vs 8-pin.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Looks like Rory's saw is about 32% faster than the MMd 261C.



That much gain with a MM, and how long do we have to wait to see tightened squish? Advanced timing? Fully ported? I can hardly wait!

With these initial rough numbers, any revised gain predictions on future mods?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> That much gain with a MM, and how long do we have to wait to see tightened squish? Advanced timing? Fully ported? I can hardly wait!
> 
> With these initial rough numbers, any revised gain predictions on future mods?



Remember, the MM gains are inflated due to the knot in the wood, but still....!!! I'm going to stick with my original prediction. You're hoping I'm right, right?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Let's throw this in the mix. Different B&C, don't know what rim is on it, and didn't touch the chain. What do we have here, Rory? Thanks for the times.

[video=youtube_share;GSNk7tTTW9U]http://youtu.be/GSNk7tTTW9U[/video]


----------



## MindFork (Aug 22, 2013)

Nice videos! Is it accurate to say that the M responds more to a muffler mod than the regular 261?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

OK, we've got a problem. Rory, your 261 edged out my 346, lol We're going to have to a proper comparison with the same B&C


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Here are the times that I recorded using my dumb phone's stopwatch.
> 
> Stock MS261CM:
> 
> ...



Ported 346xp:

1.98
1.98
2.12
1.98

(retune)

2.00
1.92


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 22, 2013)

Not to disrespect cookie times and stuff, but as a work saw I'm liking what I'm seein' in the C-M with just a MM. Really anxious to see if the squish-tighten yields any grunt, which BTW it looked like it really had for it's class of saw. Might be fun to see how it (the 261C) would stack up against other in-class competition with "too much" bar, pitch/raker, and/or sprocket. Not to imply that any of that stuff happens in the real world.


----------



## john_bud (Aug 22, 2013)

Is there a link to the 261 muffler mod? Interested in trying it out on my new 261! Not sure what opening sizes to go for, etc.

For the 2nd exhaust opening added, where does one get the extra screen? (yeah, I'm a dumb newb  )

Thanks!!


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Not to disrespect cookie times and stuff, but as a work saw I'm liking what I'm seein' in the C-M with just a MM. Really anxious to see if the squish-tighten yields any grunt, which BTW it looked like it really had for it's class of saw. Might be fun to see how it (the 261C) would stack up against other in-class competition with "too much" bar, pitch/raker, and/or sprocket.



Often, I won't even test a saw before modding the muffler. This just goes to show just how choked up many saws really are. I'm going to guess maybe another 10% with the added compression and intake duration that will give. I'm expecting to end up with ignition timing in the stock position. Just my guesses.

You can expect this saw to be done sometime Saturday. I'll probably have the cylinder base cut and tested tomorrow evening after work. Saturday will be for porting.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

john_bud said:


> Is there a link to the 261 muffler mod? Interested in trying it out on my new 261! Not sure what opening sizes to go for, etc.
> 
> For the 2nd exhaust opening added, where does one get the extra screen? (yeah, I'm a dumb newb  )
> 
> Thanks!!



I open up the hole under the factory deflector to the edges of the deflector. I grind a slot in the tube inside the muffler, from the back side. I then louver the opposite side of the muffler. There are no screens currently on this saw. If a spark arrestor is needed, the louver would have to be replaced with a deflector and screen.


----------



## fatheadon1 (Aug 22, 2013)

Brad any idea if your gonna be able to get your hands on more 261cms once you get this one uncorked to your liking? I know I have a credit card waiting to melt when your ready to sell them all done up and I'm surly not the only one.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

fatheadon1 said:


> Brad any idea if your gonna be able to get your hands on more 261cms once you get this one uncorked to your liking? I know I have a credit card waiting to melt when your ready to sell them all done up and I'm surly not the only one.:msp_thumbup:



I have not discussed this any further with my dealer. I will definitely be crossing that bridge as soon as I see the results of this project.


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

MM


----------



## john_bud (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> MM



That's a nice looking set of louvers. Did you cut, heat and bend them into position or what? I'm afraid my (ahem) "skills" are no where near what's needed to get a result like that!


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## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

john_bud said:


> That's a nice looking set of louvers. Did you cut, heat and bend them into position or what? I'm afraid my (ahem) "skills" are no where near what's needed to get a result like that!



There's no heat involved. I cut and bend them by hand.


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## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Not to disrespect cookie times and stuff, but as a work saw I'm liking what I'm seein' in the C-M with just a MM. Really anxious to see if the squish-tighten yields any grunt, which BTW it looked like it really had for it's class of saw. Might be fun to see how it (the 261C) would stack up against other in-class competition with "too much" bar, pitch/raker, and/or sprocket. Not to imply that any of that stuff happens in the real world.



So, what do you think of maybe a "*Snellerized Stage 1*" mod that cuts the cylinder base (retaining the factory gasket), mods the muffler, and alters the ignition timing (should that be necessary)? It would include everything but the porting. This mod also leaves the strato intact, meaning better fuel economy and less fumes. I've had at least a couple guys suggest I do this, but haven't pursued it. I could offer maybe 75% of the gains for less than 1/2 the cost of traditional porting. For the guys that want the max, we know what that takes as well.

Just as a reminder, I do not add any additional compression other than that gained by tightening the squish. I end up with 180-190 PSI, and that's all I want in this saw. I've tried more, and didn't like the results. It's just not needed. The squish on a 261 is in the .035" ball park, so tightening the squish makes a pretty good difference.


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## MindFork (Aug 22, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> So, what do you think of maybe a "*Snellerized Stage 1*" mod that cuts the cylinder base (retaining the factory gasket), mods the muffler, and alters the ignition timing (should that be necessary)? It would include everything but the porting. This mod also leaves the strato intact, meaning better fuel economy and less fumes. I've had at least a couple guys suggest I do this, but haven't pursued it. I could offer maybe 75% of the gains for less than 1/2 the cost of traditional porting. For the guys that want the max, we know what that takes as well.



Sounds like a really good idea. Massive power is great and all, but there is more to life. Having reduced fumes and nice fuel economy are good things in my book. Saving a few bucks is also nice, and "stage 1" is probably all that would be needed for a non-competitive work saw for us mere mortals.

My credit card is standing by...


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## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

Hey Brad. I found this doing MM research for my 361. Might be an option for the 261? Brazing skills required!


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## LowVolt (Aug 22, 2013)

MindFork said:


> "stage 1" is probably all that would be needed for a non-competitive work saw for us mere mortals.



Speak for yourself!


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## MindFork (Aug 22, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Speak for yourself!


Need...not want. :msp_biggrin:


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## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2013)

*More Power*:msp_biggrin:


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## H 2 H (Aug 22, 2013)

View attachment 310921


And another


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## porsche965 (Aug 22, 2013)

Great thread.

That stamped bucking spike really bugs me. Just don't belong on THIS saw. 

I've got a first stage Snelled 261 and it really re-shapes the performance of the saw. And helped to get the wife more involved in making firewood with me, it sure did the trick, not to loud or radical. And she seems to be even more understanding about this CAD stuff now. Thanks Brad.


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## fatheadon1 (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm all for a saw that's good on fuel but with the gas going bad as fast as it does now a days even with Stabilizer sign me up for a bad ass gas guzzler


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## john_bud (Aug 22, 2013)

fatheadon1 said:


> I'm all for a saw that's good on fuel but with the gas going bad as fast as it does now a days even with Stabilizer sign me up for a bad ass gas guzzler



Good point on the rotten quality of gas today~!


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## Officer's Match (Aug 23, 2013)

Yup, I think the SS-1 sounds like a fantastic option. 

Brad, does this M-Tronic have that "strong start" feeling that my 441C has? Half-hearted pulls on it result in an enthusiastic jump to life, especially warm. It's one of my favorite characteristics of my C-M.


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

It's hard to say at this point. It did take several pulls to start cold last night. Warm starts are one pull, as are most saws. I'll just have you to see how it goes.


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## deye223 (Aug 23, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> MM



now thats neat


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## LowVolt (Aug 23, 2013)

deye223 said:


> now thats neat



Nice sig. Death, taxes and oil threads. Hahaha


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## cowroy (Aug 23, 2013)

That's a video I would like to see there....... is how to cut and bend them louvers that clean. I am with OM on the MM thing too.

I am not brand loyal to anything except what will start for me when I get ready to go cut firewood, but I hope after you get done porting this 261C it absolutely chews a 346xtra puss up and spits it out like yesterday's cud! umpkin2:otstir::msp_wink:opcorn: I might actually buy one day if it does.


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## john_bud (Aug 23, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I open up the hole under the factory deflector to the edges of the deflector. I grind a slot in the tube inside the muffler, from the back side. I then louver the opposite side of the muffler. There are no screens currently on this saw. If a spark arrestor is needed, the louver would have to be replaced with a deflector and screen.




Excellent information. Just what I was looking for -- Thanks!


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## VinceGU05 (Aug 23, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Modding the muffler made a huge difference. Throttle response and power both improved significantly. BTW, I've not yet timed any of these.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;GhKPGl0givE]http://youtu.be/GhKPGl0givE[/video]



hey brad do u do the stihl bar off re-calibration between mods?


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

I re-calibrate after each mod.

More vids and pics coming in a bit.


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

MS261C

1. Cylinder dropped .015"
2. Compression increased 20 PSI to 185 PSI

[video=youtube_share;zSROQGa8wRg]http://youtu.be/zSROQGa8wRg[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

MS261C

1. Timing Advanced 5°

[video=youtube_share;Vp7md4NwrYE]http://youtu.be/Vp7md4NwrYE[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

MS261 Stock

[video=youtube_share;3AtbRPCg1zQ]http://youtu.be/3AtbRPCg1zQ[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

MS261 

1. Muffler Modded

[video=youtube_share;T-rmJ7Q4wKA]http://youtu.be/T-rmJ7Q4wKA[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

MS261

1. Cylinder dropped .018"
2. Timing advanced 5°

[video=youtube_share;hKZ0Vc1_maM]http://youtu.be/hKZ0Vc1_maM[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

Compression jumped from 165 to 185 by simply dropping the cylinder .015". That also bought us a couple degrees of intake duration. The exhaust will be raised a couple degrees when ported.





Here's the coil that feeds the new carb.


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

Tuning the regular MS261 leaves me hoping that I didn't leave much on the table. The rev limiter kicks in about 13,700. The 261 limiter used to not kick in until about 15,100. It sure makes it a lot more iffy tuning a modded saw.


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## TonyRumore (Aug 23, 2013)

It kinda looks like it slowed down with the timing advanced.

Tony


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

TonyRumore said:


> It kinda looks like it slowed down with the timing advanced.
> 
> Tony



Not surprising. I haven't timed any of these yet. Oh Rory, where are you?:hmm3grin2orange:


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## THALL10326 (Aug 23, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> If "best" is heavy and clumsy handling - you could be right. Personally, I regard the MS261 as a total flop - it just isn't what a 50cc saw should be....:msp_wink:



One must consider the source and coming from you ole buddy the above is a compliment. Maybe if it had starting issues, carb and coil issues it would be the ultimate 50cc saw in your book, we know how you love those 50cc saws that have such issues you like to deny and swear its not true,


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

THALL10326 said:


> One must consider the source and coming from you ole buddy the above is a compliment. Maybe if it had starting issues, carb and coil issues it would be the ultimate 50cc saw in your book, we know how you love those 50cc saws that have such issues you like to deny and swear its not true,



Hey Tom. Good to see you drop in. Don't be a stranger!


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## cowroy (Aug 23, 2013)

MM is the best mod yet opcorn:


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

TonyRumore said:


> It kinda looks like it slowed down with the timing advanced.
> 
> Tony





blsnelling said:


> Not surprising. I haven't timed any of these yet. Oh Rory, where are you?:hmm3grin2orange:



It definitely did. I expected that. It lost about 8%. I think the saw alters timing as well as fuel to tune itself. Back to stock the timing goes.


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## THALL10326 (Aug 23, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Hey Tom. Good to see you drop in. Don't be a stranger!



Oh I just peeked in and saw this thread, knew right away ole Troll would be bashing away sure enough, too easy. Poor ole feller had to eat a awful lot of crow with all those issues on those new hot rods from over at camp orange. I guess after swollowing all that embarrassment bashing the other side comes easy, LOLOL

To date the standard 261 has been flawless, steller performer, I've yet to get into one, none have come back for anything, sold about 70-80 of them now.
The M-Tronic has worked great on the 441 and I'm sure it will work just as well on the 261. Will be interesting to see if it will feed your mods Brad, have at it and see what she does, I think it will feed your mods and perform well, little birdie told me so,hehehe


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## MindFork (Aug 23, 2013)

The thing is pretty impressive with just a muffler mod. How much does the squish cut / compression bump add on top of the MM?

Also, can anyone verify that the M-tronic 261 is more impressive with a muffler mod than a standard saw with the same MMod? Is it all in my head?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

Average of all cut times. I used light, medium, and heavy pressure to demonstrate the powerband.

*MS261*
Stock - 3.33
MMd - 2.71
Comp & TA - 2.56
Ported - 1.97

*MS261C*
Stock - 4.31
MMd - 2.90
Comp - 2.19
Comp & TA - 2.37
Ported - ??

The numbers are really interesting. The stock MS261C numbers are quite a bit lower than the MS261. But, the MS261C gained a lot more from the MM, leveling the playing field. The comp increase made a bigger difference on the MS261C than comp and timing advance on the MS261. Bottom line, this MS261C is an animal with what's already been done to it Tomorrow will be interesting


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

As it stands now, the ported MS261 is 17% faster than the MS261C with the comp increased. The MS261C is already nearly 50% faster than stock!!! The MS261 was faster stock, leaving the ported MS261 40% faster than stock.

I went back and re-watched the stock MS261C vid. Those knots majorly killed the cuts times.


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2013)

Oh, I forgot to mention. I have a new 2253 (550XP) headed this way I'm trying to leave enough of this cant to get it in on the comparison.


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## LowVolt (Aug 23, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Not surprising. I haven't timed any of these yet. Oh Rory, where are you?:hmm3grin2orange:



Sorry man. I was a brazin fool!!!


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 23, 2013)

My saw looks like its gonna get whooped brad..i need a tissue :msp_ohmy:


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## LowVolt (Aug 23, 2013)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> My saw looks like its gonna get whooped brad..i need a tissue :msp_ohmy:



??? It looks like it might be doin some whoopin........


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 23, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> ??? It looks like it might be doin some whoopin........



I was jokin..a second on a cant wont matter to me im not in that big of a hurry to cut my firewood..i dont doubt its gonna be a monster..after all its SNELLERIZED ! :yoyo:


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 23, 2013)

My 461R is takin a trip to franklin OH next..id say im gonna have a bad azz combo with this combo


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

The MS261C carb cannot feed enough fuel for the mods I make to these saws. I have to feather the throttle to even get it to try to rev up.

[video=youtube_share;Uho54iTSXmU]http://youtu.be/Uho54iTSXmU[/video]

It's hard to consider this a failure though. The saw runs fantastic, nearly like a ported saw, with only Stage 1 mods. You the operator, get a saw that uses less fuel, makes less fumes, and costs you less to mod.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

Here it is with an unported cylinder back on it. Also, I put the ignition timing back to stock.

[video=youtube_share;JDpFfyLCzvU]http://youtu.be/JDpFfyLCzvU[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

Here's the MS261C ported cylinder on the new MS261. The cylinders are identical, so I simply swapped them. I was wrong last night when I said the rev limiter was kicking in at 13,700. It felt and sounded like it, so I was scared to lean it out. Once the ported cylinder was on the saw, it became obvious that it wasn't limited there. This saw is tuned to 15K RPMs, just like LowVolt's was. I've since turned it back down to 14,500 for break-in.

[video=youtube_share;KTM-ox12QnE]http://youtu.be/KTM-ox12QnE[/video]


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## LowVolt (Aug 24, 2013)

First, you got the same video up there twice.

Second. Is the fuel delivery problem hardware or software related? Never thought I would say that talking about chainsaw....


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

For the 4 cuts I made with this new MS261, I'm getting an average of 1.93 seconds. That's within a couple hundredths of Rory's saw, actually a tick faster. However, I made all 4 cuts for best cut times, not dogging it in, or letting it rev to show the powerband. I'll take consistency like that


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

I'm back off to the garage to mod a couple 201Ts.


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## lambs (Aug 24, 2013)

morewood said:


> Around here, there doesn't seem to be anything but steep.
> 
> Shea



In Old Fort, that is surely the case. Quite a haul up to Black Mountain from where you sit. I'd go with the lightest saw possible if I were you!


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## psuiewalsh (Aug 24, 2013)

Can a 441 system (carb) plug in there?


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## Aahhyes68 (Aug 24, 2013)

Great thread ! I'm in need of a new saw and had decided on the 261 until I heard about the 261C coming out so I've waited... I'm not in a huge hurry while I cut wood but do like some power..

After looking at the stock time between the two saws I wonder if I should just pick up a standard 261. It looks like the MM'd 261C does great but is a MM something that
can be done in the garage ? I like the idea of a fuel efficient, etc.. saw but.... Sorry if this is a newb question..but I'm a newb.. :msp_biggrin:


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## MindFork (Aug 24, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> The MS261C carb cannot feed enough fuel for the mods I make to these saws. I have to feather the throttle to even get it to try to rev up.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> It's hard to consider this a failure though. The saw runs fantastic, nearly like a ported saw, with only Stage 1 mods. You the operator, get a saw that uses less fuel, makes less fumes, and costs you less to mod.


I think the video you meant to embed there was this one:

[video=youtube;Uho54iTSXmU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uho54iTSXmU[/video]


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## MindFork (Aug 24, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> The MS261C carb cannot feed enough fuel for the mods I make to these saws. I have to feather the throttle to even get it to try to rev up.
> 
> It's hard to consider this a failure though. The saw runs fantastic, nearly like a ported saw, with only Stage 1 mods. You the operator, get a saw that uses less fuel, makes less fumes, and costs you less to mod.



I like that stage 1 idea. But you're going to have to mate up a 441cm carb next in order to satisfy the "power elite" on the board. (Never thought I'd use that term in relation to chainsaws...)

There is also a third option: Do the maximum amount of porting that the carb will fuel, leaving the strato intact. The way it responded to just a MM and compression bump, there might be good gains to be had from a less aggressive porting. 

But if not...there's going to be a mad dash by guys on here to snap up every available 261 so that they can have it uber-ported later.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Aug 24, 2013)

Brad if you are attending the poulan gtg. Please bring anything to do with the 261 for me to run. Stock, muffler modded, ported, carbed, autotuned etc. Dont matter. Just want to run the 261. 

I need to be there big time to deliver a couple saws, so will be there barring a act of God. :msp_ohmy:


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## MindFork (Aug 24, 2013)

Aahhyes68 said:


> Great thread ! I'm in need of a new saw and had decided on the 261 until I heard about the 261C coming out so I've waited... I'm not in a huge hurry while I cut wood but do like some power..
> 
> After looking at the stock time between the two saws I wonder if I should just pick up a standard 261. It looks like the MM'd 261C does great but is a MM something that
> can be done in the garage ? I like the idea of a fuel efficient, etc.. saw but.... Sorry if this is a newb question..but I'm a newb.. :msp_biggrin:


Fellow noob here. From what I've researched, a muffler mod is very much an "in your garage" mod with just a dremel and a hand drill. Of course, there are higher levels of muffler mod to attain, as Brad showed in this thread with his stock looking louvers. I'd love to know how that's done, but I probably don't have the necessary tools.

Just do some "advanced search" for "muffler mod" and search titles only. You'll find lots of threads.

Worst case scenario is that you take off your muffler and mail it to Brad or someone else to have ported, slap it back on your 261C for a nice power gain and never have to worry about tuning your saw.


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## Joe Kidd (Aug 24, 2013)

That's the beauty of it.


----------



## ernurse (Aug 24, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Lol. I'm not going there My comment was simply that a ported 261 is a very strong saw.



I wasn't "stirring the pot" or trying to pit one builder against another. I have never ran a ported 261...just a stock 026 pro. Im just saying that Danny builds a SUPER strong 346 that feels like a flyweight 70cc stock saw.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

MindFork said:


> I think the video you meant to embed there was this one:



Thanks. You are correct. I've fixed it now.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

psuiewalsh said:


> Can a 441 system (carb) plug in there?


Not even remotely feasable. The 441 has a two barrel carb. There are essentially two intake boots on the 441. One feeds the fuel laden air, and the other the pure air.



Aahhyes68 said:


> After looking at the stock time between the two saws I wonder if I should just pick up a standard 261. It looks like the MM'd 261C does great but is a MM something that
> can be done in the garage ? I like the idea of a fuel efficient, etc.. saw but.... Sorry if this is a newb question..but I'm a newb.. :msp_biggrin:


You can disregaurd the stock MS261C cut times. That knot totally messed those up. Yes, a muffler mod is easy if you have the tools to do it.



MindFork said:


> Do the maximum amount of porting that the carb will fuel, leaving the strato intact. The way it responded to just a MM and compression bump, there might be good gains to be had from a less aggressive porting.


Been there tried that. Sure gains can be made, but not enough to make it worth your money. I considered doing a mild traditional porting to this cylinder, but I already did that with the standard MS261. There's no point in doing it again. If I don't get the improvements I expect, I simply won't sell it. I've proven that I can make a regular MS261 into a monster, but those mods are simply too much for this saw to fuel. 

As of now, I will mod your MS261 or MS261C with "Stage 1 mods" for $125, including return shipping. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better value. I will continue to port regular MS261s as I always have.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Brad if you are attending the poulan gtg. Please bring anything to do with the 261 for me to run. Stock, muffler modded, ported, carbed, autotuned etc. Dont matter. Just want to run the 261.
> 
> I need to be there big time to deliver a couple saws, so will be there barring a act of God. :msp_ohmy:



The only way that I'll have a 261 at that time, is if one is here to mod. Maybe LowVolt will be able to attend. He does have a new baby coming soon though.


----------



## wigglesworth (Aug 24, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> So you think the M-tronic system will compensate for gutting the strato stuff?



:stupid:


----------



## mtrees (Aug 24, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention. I have a new 2253 (550XP) headed this way I'm trying to leave enough of this cant to get it in on the comparison.



Please do Brad, very interested in 550-261c comparo.


Sent from my iPhone guaranteeing nothing.


----------



## mtrees (Aug 24, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Please do Brad, very interested in 550-261c comparo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone guaranteeing nothing.



Sorry finished thread and now see that the saw can't handle mods. Very thankful for the Bad Azz standard 261 you did for me!!


Sent from my iPhone guaranteeing nothing.


----------



## john_bud (Aug 24, 2013)

I also wonder if there is a software issue with the fueling of the full ported saw. I don't know squat about how the saw senses and corrects for variations and tunes itself. but it seems reasonable that could be the issue. Are we at the stage when chainsaw hot rodders need to do a mind meld with computer nerds??


----------



## LowVolt (Aug 24, 2013)

john_bud said:


> I also wonder if there is a software issue with the fueling of the full ported saw. I don't know squat about how the saw senses and corrects for variations and tunes itself. but it seems reasonable that could be the issue. Are we at the stage when chainsaw hot rodders need to do a mind meld with computer nerds??





LowVolt said:


> First, you got the same video up there twice.
> 
> Second. Is the fuel delivery problem hardware or software related? Never thought I would say that talking about chainsaw....



I am also wondering the same thing. I asked the question a few posts back and it got lost in the shuffle. 

Maybe young can crack the m-tronic code and get us some more fuel.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Sorry finished thread and now see that the saw can't handle mods. Very thankful for the Bad Azz standard 261 you did for me!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone guaranteeing nothing.


It handles the significant gains the Stage 1 mods gave it. Those gains are very real. It just can't handle the radical mod of gutting the strato. It could probably handle some more traditional porting. However, I didn't find the gains I wanted with traditional porting. I'll try to find those vids.


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 24, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> It handles the significant gains the Stage 1 mods gave it. Those gains are very real. It just can't handle the radical mod of gutting the strato. It could probably handle some more traditional porting. However, I didn't find the gains I wanted with traditional porting. I'll try to find those vids.



Question Brad, when you were looking for the gains in your original 261 development, did you have your lathe to mill the cylinder? If not, just wondering if the M-Tronic plus higher compression could breathe more life outta' porting without the full de-strato mod.


----------



## MindFork (Aug 24, 2013)

john_bud said:


> I also wonder if there is a software issue with the fueling of the full ported saw. I don't know squat about how the saw senses and corrects for variations and tunes itself. but it seems reasonable that could be the issue. Are we at the stage when chainsaw hot rodders need to do a mind meld with computer nerds??


The limiters need to be removed!! But now they're digital...


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> :stupid:



Lol. We were all hoping


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Question Brad, when you were looking for the gains in your original 261 development, did you have your lathe to mill the cylinder? If not, just wondering if the M-Tronic plus higher compression could breathe more life outta' porting without the full de-strato mod.



I made the same compression increase, but had to either ditch the gasket or make a thin one. I don't recall which. The net effect was the same. I've tried higher compression in a 261, and actually slowed it down. 180-190 PSI is all the compression needed for a strong work saw.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Please do Brad, very interested in 550-261c comparo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone guaranteeing nothing.



The 2253 should be here Wednesday.


----------



## john_bud (Aug 25, 2013)

MindFork said:


> The limiters need to be removed!! But now they're digital...



Too bad you can't just get a pin drill out and enlarge the jet like we used to do in "the good old days"....


----------



## hoeyrd2110 (Aug 25, 2013)

wonder how the carb acts when it's really cold and needs a good amount of fuel in winter time with the stage 1? do you think it has enough headroom to compensate after they've been opened up but not ported? thats a huge question for me cause a MM is first thing done to a saw and it usually takes a 1/4 turn out on the high screws to tune them right afterwards. i would have been nice for stihl to put some headroom there just in case. seems they have picked a very narrow operating band for the jet...wonder how we can change that


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2013)

hoeyrd2110 said:


> wonder how the carb acts when it's really cold and needs a good amount of fuel in winter time with the stage 1? do you think it has enough headroom to compensate after they've been opened up but not ported? thats a huge question for me cause a MM is first thing done to a saw and it usually takes a 1/4 turn out on the high screws to tune them right afterwards. i would have been nice for stihl to put some headroom there just in case. *seems they have picked a very narrow operating band for the jet*...wonder how we can change that



A fully modded MS261 feels more like a 70cc saw than a 50cc saw. Honestly, I'm not surprised at all that it didn't work out. I wasn't asking it for just a little head room. Gutting the strato on this thing is a rather radical change from the factory design. Obviously, I can't say for sure, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't fine in cold weather. As far as MMs go, I've seen saws need the H leaned out. Typically, you need a lot more L, which adds to WOT fuel. Every saw is an individual though.


----------



## young (Aug 25, 2013)

brad, are the high side jets removable from the carb?


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## hoeyrd2110 (Aug 25, 2013)

we should all call hillborn and get this injection thing figured out hehe. adjustable barrel valve and a crank driven mini pump should give you all fuel you need:hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2013)

This video demonstrates why I won't offer traditional porting on a 261. The difference is HUGE. The first cut is with traditional porting, the second is with the strato gutted. I'm able to put a lot more load on the saw, netting a 20% reduction in cut times.

[video=youtube_share;TLJVAR6GmkE]http://youtu.be/TLJVAR6GmkE[/video]

I hope that anyone that tries traditional porting on a 261C will demonstrate the gains it makes over what I'm calling Stage 1 mods. If not, there's no proof what the porting did. We already know that there's approximately 40% gains to be had without porting.


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## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2013)

Going back and studying my initial 261 build, it appears that I got more than twice the gains with gutting the strato than I did with traditional porting. If I'm looking at the right vids, traditional porting was only good for about 12%.

Traditional porting.
[video=youtube_share;28mfeVlj_og]http://youtu.be/28mfeVlj_og[/video]


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## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2013)

Strato gutted.
[video=youtube_share;wAU5R3Qnk44]http://youtu.be/wAU5R3Qnk44[/video]


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## LowVolt (Aug 25, 2013)

Alright, alright. Back to the 261cm. 

So are we, Brad, looking at ways to get more fuel or just saying it cannot be done?

It sounds like a bit more R&D needs to be done on this saw. 

The other day I was at the dealer and he showed me the tool that is used to hook up the M-tronic saws to the computer for diagnosis. I forget the part number. The main part plugs into the saw and then there is a Bluetooth dongle that plugs into the desktop computer and transmits all the programming data to the PC wirelessly. The tool can also check coils and possibly does a few other things. I am not sure what parameters you can adjust, if any, but it might be a step in the right direction. There has to be a way of hacking into the M-tronic system and adjusting anything we want. Well maybe not the chain tension.


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## john_bud (Aug 25, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Alright, alright. Back to the 261cm.
> 
> So are we, Brad, looking at ways to get more fuel or just saying it cannot be done?
> 
> ...





^ not yet on the chain tension, but it should be possible with a built in strain gauge and a mini stepper motor...


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## MindFork (Aug 25, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Alright, alright. Back to the 261cm.
> 
> So are we, Brad, looking at ways to get more fuel or just saying it cannot be done?
> 
> ...


I have every confidence that the Mtronic will be modded/hacked/etc sooner than later.


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## Jarh73 (Aug 25, 2013)

Just curious but where is the US MS-261 made?

I tried to tell from the pictures earlier in this thread but there was not enough resolution. 

Cheers

Justin


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## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Alright, alright. Back to the 261cm.
> 
> So are we, Brad, looking at ways to get more fuel or just saying it cannot be done?
> 
> ...





john_bud said:


> ^ not yet on the chain tension, but it should be possible with a built in strain gauge and a mini stepper motor...



I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't think the aftermarket chainsaw world has the R&D dollars to replicate the data interface and software that would be required. Similar hardware and software for my truck cost in the ballpark of $1000 just to purchase. There just isn't that kind of market for what we're doing.


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## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2013)

Jarh73 said:


> Just curious but where is the US MS-261 made?
> 
> I tried to tell from the pictures earlier in this thread but there was not enough resolution.
> 
> ...



Mine says it was made in the US, which means Virginia Beach.


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## ncvarmint (Sep 6, 2013)

How much are these and are they available yet? I really want a 261 cm
trevor


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## MCW (Sep 6, 2013)

Jarh73 said:


> Just curious but where is the US MS-261 made?
> 
> I tried to tell from the pictures earlier in this thread but there was not enough resolution.
> 
> ...



Hi Justin.
Brad is correct in saying that the US delivered MS261's are made in the US at Stihl's Virginia Beach plant.
The same saw model delivered via Australian Stihl dealers is coming out of Germany. If you see a US made MS201T, MS261, MS362 etc in Australia it is a "grey import" out of the US and not covered by Stihl Australia's warranty.
Although the M-Tronic versions fix this issue US made saws tend to be tuned a lot leaner than Australian delivered saws to satisfy US EPA rules and regulations. Therefore a number of the US made saws produce less power out of the box than the German made Australian delivered saws.


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## Aahhyes68 (Nov 13, 2013)

Has anyone heard of any problems with the 261 with the M-Tronic yet ?? I'm really wanting one but always leary of buying a "new model" anything...


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## 1Zach1 (Nov 13, 2013)

Aahhyes68 said:


> Has anyone heard of any problems with the 261 with the M-Tronic yet ?? I'm really wanting one but always leary of buying a "new model" anything...


I've only had mine for a few weeks, but the only issue I've had is not having enough wood to cut.


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## Mastermind (Nov 13, 2013)

Aahhyes68 said:


> Has anyone heard of any problems with the 261 with the M-Tronic yet ?? I'm really wanting one but always leary of buying a "new model" anything...



I've already ported about eight of these......have one of my own that is modded with 20 tanks or so on it. I've yet to hear of a single hicup from anyone.


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## cre10 (Nov 13, 2013)

Aahhyes68 said:


> Has anyone heard of any problems with the 261 with the M-Tronic yet ?? I'm really wanting one but always leary of buying a "new model" anything...


Just buy one already


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## Aahhyes68 (Nov 13, 2013)

cre10 said:


> Just buy one already




Lol... I called my dealer and won't have one in stock until next week.


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## Aahhyes68 (Nov 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've already ported about eight of these......have one of my own that is modded with 20 tanks or so on it. I've yet to hear of a single hicup from anyone.




I'm just a firewood guy, not a pro so there wouldn't be any modding.....at least until the warranty was up. Any con's to this new saw running stock ? Anything will be better than the 024 I'm using now but it's
done everything I've asked it to. Just not real fast...Lol..


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## Tnshaker (Nov 13, 2013)

No problems from mine...perfect so far...little torque monster after randy got ahold of mine


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## Mastermind (Nov 13, 2013)

I've never ran one stock.........why would I?


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## Tnshaker (Nov 13, 2013)

Ran mine stock for a tank...they are nice but after randy ported mine it is a totally different saw. Take my advice and just send it to him from the beginning and you know to love it then. Randy always pucks up saws but he reallllllllly has this m tronic thing figured out.


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## crabhab (Nov 13, 2013)

I am on tank number 4 and it is just starting to build power while buried in the cut. I like how fast it revs and how easy it is to start. I was blocking up some large cherry tree rounds with it last weekend, the 365XT would have been the correct tool but, the 261 did fine.


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## bryanr2 (Nov 14, 2013)

Aahhyes68 said:


> Has anyone heard of any problems with the 261 with the M-Tronic yet ?? I'm really wanting one but always leary of buying a "new model" anything...



Only that a certain ported 2153 makes them "tuck tail and run". . 50cc is just a limbing saw in my book so I expect it to be very light, zippy, and quick which is what the 2153 gives me.

Randy, Have you seriously put 20 tanks thru your saw? On that 2153........ I don't know how many tanks Dave ran thru it before I got it from him (the thing was MINT) but I only have 3 tanks max thru it since I have owned it (only need a saw like that occasionally since I usually process large rounds/logs for my ).


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## bryanr2 (Nov 14, 2013)

Tnshaker said:


> Ran mine stock for a tank...they are nice but after randy ported mine it is a totally different saw. *Take my advice and just send it to him from the beginning and you know to love it then. Randy always pucks up saws but he reallllllllly has this m tronic thing figured out.*


*
*
It's safe to say he has them all figured out at this point. No other builder has shared their work and proven their saws on AS like Randy has. Not considering build threads..... just look at Mastermind7864 youtube videos of the saws he's done and posted. He's been in about every saw that is relevant at this time.


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## fastLeo151 (Nov 14, 2013)

I got me a mastermind built 261c and my 70cc saws are getting dusty.... my only complaint, its thirsty.


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## Mastermind (Nov 14, 2013)

Jon took the little 261 to GA and put several gallons thru it.......it's well broken in.


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