# Hot-weather work



## Manco (Jun 8, 2005)

What are some of the things you do to lessen the beating we take from working in the heat? High heat and humidity are a deadly combo, add in 281 or a 338 and a pair of spikes and your in for some extreme athletics.
Clothing changes and a Camelbak make a big difference. Shirt is a Dri-star with full dri-weave material, pants are khaki Dickies. 
The weather we have, you will be soaked in sweat just fueling and cranking a saw.


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## fwf (Jun 8, 2005)

All I know is summer sucks! It is not even Jun 15 and I am already daydreaming about October. Hydration, a sweat wicking shirt, and short breaks to cool down is only relief I have found. Oh, and when in doubt, work in the shade.

This summer, at least so far, permethrin clothing treatment for insect control seems to be working pretty well.

Did I mention that summer really really sucks!


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## tophopper (Jun 8, 2005)

Workin at -10 below zero aint any better.


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## Koa Man (Jun 9, 2005)

I drink lots of Gatorade. On most residential accounts we can work without shirts because the homeowner doesn't care and is often undressed the same way. Some of the ground crew wear shorts (knee length, like the postman). One benefit of a laid back tropical lifestyle.


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## Ekka (Jun 9, 2005)

I gotta admit I'm a rip your shirt off type guy too.

I take 2 shirts to work in winter and 3 in summer, a towel, 5 litres of frozen boiled water, anti-cramp tablets, 3 addidas sweat bands for head, absorbent gloves if stump grinding and always wear boxers to ...

A/ stop chafing and rash

B/ go for a hose down or swim in customers pool.

Becomes a way of life.


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## Jumper (Jun 9, 2005)

Move north to Canada  We actually are having an early heatwave up here with the humidex at about 100F over the past few days, plus poor air quality. Three t shirts, lots of water, a bit of Gatorade to keep the electrolytes even. I usually carry a container of medicated powder to keep heat rash at bay due to chafing.

One of the most important things is to look out after each other ie recognize the symptoms of heat related stresses on the body. A few years ago in St Jean, QC, the Army ran a group of officer candidates in mid 90 temps, and killed one of them because no one recognized the guy was being damaged beyond recovery. He slipped into a coma and developed multiple organ failure before passing on...a totally preventable death.

Highly recommend a noon swim if possible.


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## KentuckySawyer (Jun 9, 2005)

I've heard that drinking too much water can flush out your electrolytes. No more than about 8oz every 15-20 minutes. Obviously that isn't possible all the time, but food for thought anyways.


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## vharrison2 (Jun 9, 2005)

Every truck has a bottle of Thermotabs. It is a buffered salt supplement with pottassium.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 9, 2005)

KentuckySawyer said:


> I've heard that drinking too much water can flush out your electrolytes.



You are correct, sir. When I'm sweating buckets I never drink water, it's Gatorade all the way, b a b y!!!


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## Dadatwins (Jun 9, 2005)

Avoid caffeine, stay away from soft drinks, drink plenty of gatorade, I mix bottled gatorade 1/2 with water to cut some of the sugar. Personally I prefer working in the cold weather, my opinion is I can always get warm by adding some layers or increasing activity. I am fine in the cold as long as my feet stay warm, once they get cold/wet I am finished. Summer heat is very difficult to deal with especially when the humidity gets so high that it feels like there is no air.  I would rather deal with the cold.


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## Bermie (Jun 9, 2005)

That's the nice thing about being a 120lb female tree sugeon, we don't sweat as much HA HA!
I go the gatorade route, and short breaks. I avoid scheduling work in the mid day hours, start early, finish early - go to the beach.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 9, 2005)

Welcome to AS, Bermie.


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## mikecross23 (Jun 9, 2005)

I had a customer a few weeks ago bring out a cooler with a little ice and water in the bottom of it and fresh hand towls. She practically forced us to dip the towels and wrap them around our necks. Unwilling I did it and man it felt good. Left that cool towl wrapped for the rest of the day. The guys too. Too much of a pain to do on a regular basis though.


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## Bermie (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks, Just came across the site yesterday


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## Dadatwins (Jun 9, 2005)

Bermie said:


> Thanks, Just came across the site yesterday



Another welcome to the site, absolutely beautiful place Bermuda, glad to have you here.


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## Wales (Jun 9, 2005)

I took a lesson from my foreman's brother who works as a lineman for the local electric company. He gave me a piece of fabric / cloth to hang from the back of my helmet and a tinted visor for the peak.It reduced the heat on my head and shoulders and made the Florida heat manageable. The tinted visor not only made looking up into the trees much easier it also provided a little extra shade. Powerade or Gatorate is also the way to go.


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## Ekka (Jun 10, 2005)

Well, hasn't the good old *snake oil marketing machine of Gatorade* sucked you all in!

Tch Tch Tch, seldom believe what a company selling a product says, and of course they don't want you drinking water ... that's free. Aren't they owned by Pepsi.

Oh yeah, it's got all those "good things" in it unlike water ... take a closer look. Do some research on what the body really needs.

*Master Blaster and Kentucky Sawyer * you are both wrong, not your fault, just conned by the marketing machine ... here's the facts ..

Salt is needed by the human body in order to help muscles and nerves to work and to regulate blood pressure. Hormones help the body regulate how much salt and water is needed. If the body has too much salt the excess sodium chloride is excreted. If the body has too little salt more water is excreted from the body in order to preserve the BrCl/H2O balance in the body. (source http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/history/trade/salt.htm) *So drinking plenty of water cannot flush out the electrolytes.*

On a hot day you would have to drink around 5L of water a day, if you drank that as Gatorade you would have also consumed 1100 empty calories of sugar and got 2.2 grams of sodium, 0.6 grams of potassium in salts. Not to mention that you would have spend $20 on the crap. And that amount of "electrolyte mineral support" from that volume of product is a joke. They're selling you a dimes worth of minerals with coloured water and sugar! SUCKED IN!!!!

Yes, Gatorade is a better alternative than soft drink etc but it is not the panacea for your summer sweating woes. It is the way to your wallet and ill health in the long term.

So, you now know how little is in it, and you now know what it is that you need so you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure the rest out. 

Also, don't forget there are other salts like magnesium that will benefit your body too, so go to your local health shop, forget the mix with water rip off type of rubbish, buy some tablets that have potassium, sodium, magnesium etc and away you go. Electrolyte re-hydration for a dime a day that wont give you type 2 diabetes.


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## Koa Man (Jun 10, 2005)

Ekka,
I also like to drink Gatorade instead of water when working. I like the taste and buying the powder mix from Costco at $8.89 a can for a 9 gal. mix comes out to only 25 cents a quart. I drink less than a gallon so it may cost me 50 cents to a dollar a day. I make enough to afford that. Each person have their own personal choice of drinks. I know some tree workers who bing lemonade or iced tea mix to drink. One of my former ground guys would bring a half gal. of orange juice. Now that is getting pricey.


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## Ekka (Jun 10, 2005)

Half a gallon of orange juice would have to give you the runs. I wouldn't be under him working the ropes when he's going out for a limb walk!

Hey Koa, gatorade here costs $2.80 a bottle from the shop and a 1 gallon powder to mix with water cost $10.00 which is what you'd have to take a day. It's expensive and taste is something that cigarette companies have been conning consumers with for years ... it does nothing for me. Also is it's full of sugar and misses out other minerals.

Like I said, it's the best of the bunch. But you can do better for your body.


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## CODIT (Jun 10, 2005)

Every one is making good points here as far as the Gatorade vs. H2O question. The fact is that you need much more water than minerals / electrolytes. But a compromise between the two would probably fix the whole problem. A touch of the Gator for the taste, with much more H2O, and the rehydration minerals would be a much better answer. Lots of water is really the important factor. The Camelback is what I use up in the tree sipping H2O every little bit.The towel on the neck is a great idea in fact a dowsed wet bandana works wonders when it's really hot  There is a product on the market that you could probably find at the local Rosemart marketed under the brand Miracool that is a bandana containing a polymer that soaks up and retains water for several days. You can turn the bandana over on the back of your neck every so often and it's great on the hot days.  Stay cool it can be dangerous to the treeman


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## Tree Machine (Jun 10, 2005)

The electrolyte thing IS overhyped. Most fruits, esp. oranges and bananas have plenty of potassium. Sodium and potassium are everywhere in foods. Sodium and potassium are in regular drinking water. Steam distilled water has no electrolytes whatsoever.

I am a big fan of the camelbak, have been for over a decade. I consider it on of my 'secret weapons'. Summertime apprentices with me are required to have one.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 10, 2005)

I use the polymer bandanna. I keep two of them in a dedicated ice cooler and rotate them throughout the day. They _really do_ lower your core temp.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 10, 2005)

The real benefit is you can drink WHILE you work. While making big cuts, or feeding the chipper you just keep the tube in your mouth and sip slowly. It's never in the way. If you fill it with ice water, there's a big cool spot in the middle of your back up to your neck. It creates a big wet zone on your back, but if you're sweating, your entire back is a wet zone. If you go shirtless, the shoulder straps will chafe the front of your shoulders raw

I don't do ice very well, I like my drinks ambient temp. The Camel allows you to go either way, depending on how dang hot it happens to be that day.

Keep an extra tube valve on hand. Sometimes they pop off, never to be seen again. Sometimes they just plain wear out. Throw the empty bladder in the freezer overnight to keep funky bugs from growing in it, and a mild bleach soak every couple weeks to keep the system sanitized.

Drinking BEFORE your thirst sensors demand that you drink has serious advantages in maintaining homeostasis and keeping yourself at top performance. You should ONLY use water in a camel. Any sugar and you'll invite fermentation and skank. Keep the sugar drinks in their jugs, in the truck or cooler.


No regrets there, buying one. I promise.


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## vharrison2 (Jun 10, 2005)

MasterBlaster said:


> I use the polymer bandanna. I keep two of them in a dedicated ice cooler and rotate them throughout the day. They _really do_ lower your core temp.



who sells the polymer bandanna?


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## vharrison2 (Jun 10, 2005)

Bermie said:


> finish early - go to the beach.




Welcome Bermie! Nice to have another girl here!!


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 10, 2005)

vharrison2 said:


> who sells the polymer bandanna?




Wally World, or any sporting goods store.


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## Koa Man (Jun 10, 2005)

I have one of those small pouches on my saddle that I stuff some loop runners and a 20 oz. bottle of Gatorade when in the tree. If I use it up and need more, I have the ground guys refill it.


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## KentuckySawyer (Jun 10, 2005)

Ekka said:


> *Master Blaster and Kentucky Sawyer * you are both wrong, not your fault, just conned by the marketing machine ... here's the facts ..




I never said a thing about Gatorade, Ekka.

What I said was that drinking too much water at one time, is bad... mmm kay. By that I mean that you'd be better off drinking only 8oz of WATER... waiting 15 minutes or so... then having another 8oz of WATER. As opposed to drinking a full liter of WATER in one shot. This large quantity of WATER all at once supposedly flushes some of those electrolytes out.

I don't drink any sports or soft drinks... too much sugar. Now sweet tea on the other hand...


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 10, 2005)

For me, Ekka, the proof is in the pudding. No gatoraid? My legs and feet cramp up at night. Drinking G eliminates that.


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## Ekka (Jun 10, 2005)

Kentucky

I was refering to excess water washing out the electrolytes, sorry if I confused you.

MB, yes the salts in the gatorade is what stops the cramping and the water rehydrates, however it is still not the best method ... other things like magnesium and chloride are also missing. 

What is interesting is the minute amounts of salts available in the drink. If you drank 5L which is around 1.32 US gallons your getting 2.2 grams or 0.078 ounces of sodium.

Hmm, puts me on a project, it would be real easy to make up a cocktail that'll blow that gatorade out of the water. Just mix in a bit of magic powder with your drink and away you go. I suck on little tablet thingy's, I like the taste and I find I don't get the thirsty sensation I do from many of these sports sugar drinks. I also make sure I eat properly and have fruit every day.


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## Koa Man (Jun 11, 2005)

Ekka,
You ever eat Chinese preserved seeds? Stuff like li hing mui or rock salt plum? Lots of salt in them. Most people in Hawaii like it. Maybe I should eat that and drink water??? Drinking Gatorade has stopped my hands from cramping up when doing a lot of coconut palms.


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## Jim1NZ (Jun 11, 2005)

Interesting thread, i was competing in this triathlon not long ago, it was hot and i was on the final run, i grabbed a water at the last drink station took a few sips, not long after that i was cramping and then collapsed. The ambulance and me on electrolytes to keep the salts up, apparently lack of salts was the cause...


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## newb (Jun 11, 2005)

Ive run a number a marathons and one of the things you do have to watch out for is drinking to much water. When you are sweating alot you are loseing alot of important nutrients. It is possible to overdose on water and die. Dont laugh, it is documented in Runners World magazine. For every glass of water you drink, you should drink a sport drink. There is a term for the condition and if you make fun of me I will dig through old mags and find it. Be safe, be smart. Pete


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## Lumberjack (Jun 11, 2005)

Drink lots.
Sun glasses.

In a full day of work (10 billable hours) I can easily consume 3 gallons of liquid.

I wear superbs safety glasses to cut eye strain and feel somewhat cooler.


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## hobby climber (Jun 11, 2005)

Back in the 80's, I use to do a lot of long distance cycling. The trick to it was "Eat before your hungry, Drink before your dry and Rest before you tire". I averaged between 80 to 110km a day, 6 days a week with no problems. Carbing up (carbohydrates) is also a good thing IMO. We have to realize that just because we are not body builders or athletes in the Olympics doesn't mean we can ignore our health and diet in tree climbing! Its just as demanding and requires physical endurance. Sure, many here have taken courses on how to care for trees, use chainsaws, prune, rig trees, climb etc etc etc, but how many of us have been taught anything about taking care of our health re diet and hydration, recognizing heat stroke or other heat related symptoms??? This is an excellent thread and will open up our eyes to another important issue that I think many of us ( self included), have been overlooking for far too long. Again..."EAT BEFORE YOUR HUNGRY, DRINK BEFORE YOUR DRY, REST BEFORE YOUR TIRED or YOU COULD FALL DOWN AND DIE" ! (My .02) By the way, a nice summer time drink to relax around the pool would be Gatorade with a little Vodka mixed in it!  HC


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 11, 2005)

Lumberjack said:


> I wear superbs safety glasses to cut eye strain and feel somewhat cooler.




What in the world does vision have to do with feeling cool?


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## Xtra (Jun 11, 2005)

Arborwear Tec pants, a moisture wicking shirt like Under Armour with a cotton tee shirt, a bandanna around my head and a terry cloth sweat band in my helmet. Also a towel and a few extra tee shirts. 

I might try a hard hat cooling liner, I think it's like those neck wraps. http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/view_catalog_page.asp?id=3470 

Grapefruit juice in the morning and then Gatorade (they have a new lemonade flavored drink).


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## P_woozel (Jun 11, 2005)

I prefer Squincher, or Gookinaid, both are far superior to Gatorade. But I found this out from a trainer on the shots some time ago, 5-6 of those little pretzels and a quart of water is more than satisfactory compared to gatorade.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 11, 2005)

Thanks for the link, Bob! I just ordered two!


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## Xtra (Jun 11, 2005)

Welcome MB.
They also sell the terry cloth liners.
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/view_catalog_page.asp?id=6957


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 11, 2005)

One thing we are able to do around here sometimes is work inland in the AM and go towards the lake when the temps start to climb.


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## Caledonian (Jun 11, 2005)

There has been adverts over here, about us Brits visiting the States on holiday. Mum and Dad are pouring the 'good' fluids (water/juice etc.) into the childern during the hot daytime, while drinking alcohol themselves and ending up in the ER. Nice vacation!  

Strange thing though, Im ex-military, did not need anywhere near the same amount of water/fluid on a hot day when I was younger?

Nothing nicer than a 'cold one' in the evening, especially after a good day


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 11, 2005)

I'm a former Marine, did near nine years in The Corps. Never worked as hard there as I do in trees, and I was in hotter areas with a 60# pack (Only did the +100# LRRP/STA thing once, most of that was amo and batteries for the radio). I cannot take anywhere near the number of naps I did back then.


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## Ekka (Jun 11, 2005)

Vented helmets also help, lots of new ones out now with plenty of holes, be good if they had a little fan in there run on batteries!


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## Jim1NZ (Jun 11, 2005)

Hahahaha classic Ekka!


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## Jim1NZ (Jun 11, 2005)

newb said:


> Ive run a number a marathons and one of the things you do have to watch out for is drinking to much water. When you are sweating alot you are loseing alot of important nutrients. It is possible to overdose on water and die. Dont laugh, it is documented in Runners World magazine. For every glass of water you drink, you should drink a sport drink. There is a term for the condition and if you make fun of me I will dig through old mags and find it. Be safe, be smart. Pete



I agree, drink one water for every one electrolyte drink, or mix a weak solution up, thats what i do when i compete now.

Or if you want a bit of a burst at the end of the day, mix water and coke half and half.


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## Ekka (Jun 13, 2005)

Hey MasterBlaster

I noticed that helmet you're wearing has heaps of holes in it for venting, what type is it and where from?


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## Dadatwins (Jun 13, 2005)

Ekka said:


> Hey MasterBlaster
> 
> I noticed that helmet you're wearing has heaps of holes in it for venting, what type is it and where from?



I believe that helmet is an original, like the Blaster himself. I am pretty sure in the interest of safety he did remove it before drilling the holes in it.


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## Lumberjack (Jun 13, 2005)

Its a bump cap with holes drilled in it .

And wearing glasses reduces eye strain which decreases mental fatigue. Decreased mental fatigue reduces the stressor that heat adds mentally. Kinda tricks your mind into thinking that the sun isnt beating down quite as hard. It works, try it.


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## JonnyHart (Jun 13, 2005)

Easy on the coffee in the morning too. Caffine, carbonated drinks, and alcohol will all add to dehydration. A cup or two won't hurt, but replace lost fluids with water. The cool scarf thing is awesome, but slightly misleading. It stays wet, but does not get cold like an instant ice pack. The package kinda led me to believe it got cold. Keep it in an ice cooler though and you got a winner. Snug it on the neck a little, right on the carotid and the heat ain't so bad. And for the climbers with saddles that got leg straps that offer no air circulation, may I suggest a bit of baby powder or goldbond. I think that is the worst about working in hot weather.


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## texasnative (Jun 15, 2005)

I try to get started early so that I can finnish early. I get to the job about 30 minutes after sunup and my saw makes sure the neighbors are up between 6:30 and 7:00. Doesn't really start getting hot until about 10:30. But by this time, I might not have any shade left (depending on the job), and about 11:00 we take lunch. After lunch, we only have a couple of hours of work left to do, and we are out of there by 3:30 at the latest. Being productive during the cooler part of the day is how I deal with the heat. Of course I drink plenty of water, too.


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## texasnative (Jun 17, 2005)

Heat index is supposed to be 110 tommorow.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 17, 2005)

Think cool thoughts!


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## treeseer (Jun 17, 2005)

(When you are sweating alot you are loseing alot of important nutrients. It is possible to overdose on water and die. For every glass of water you drink, you should drink a sport drink. There is a term for the condition"

Newb, the term is hyponatremia, the na like Na, for sodium, so it means too little sodium/salt. It'll make ya real dizzy and yes it can be lethal. I used to be a :blob6: running junkie, >80 marathons, >40 ultramarathons. One of the worst runs was the American River 50-miler, ran from Sacramento upstream. 

Blazing hot, I could not drink enuf and checked in at the aid station around 35 miles, really woozy.  they stuck me with a needle and I pulled in 2 liters of saline and they told me I should get a ride back. I snuck away, ate a cantalope and a candy bar and finished the run, shuffling in the dark with the graybeards.

A day later I checked into Harrah's at Lake Tahoe to party with a friend; spent 3 days in the bathroom with Giardia, gut crud I got from drinking out of Folsom Lake, tallkin bout the Folsom Prison Blues  ....Most of the other runes were fun, many transcendental.

Oh yeah, trees. Thursday the day I broke that lantern, it was 97 degrees but humidity was only 50 so I can't blame the weather on that.


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## JonnyHart (Jun 18, 2005)

texasnative said:


> Heat index is supposed to be 110 tommorow.


Almost sounds nice. 130 here lately. A really dry heat though, easier than putting up with the humidity. Only been here 9 days, and we got our fourth sandstorm right now. I miss my Buffalo weather.  I guess we sweat, but it evaporates instantly. Until you enter a tent or building. Then you are drenched. Even worse while wearing the battle rattle. Still, the weather doesen't seem as bad as I was expecting.


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## Jumper (Jun 18, 2005)

Jonny take care of yourself buddy!!! Nothing like a helmet and flak vest in the heat!!! Respirator on makes for a lovely combo!! Humidex was 105F a couple of times this past week but mercifully it has cooled off nicely this past couple of days.


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## ozy365 (Jun 18, 2005)

2 liters of water to 1 cup of grape juice, 2 cotton shirts at a time and peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches on whole wheat (Perfect carb to protein to fat ratio)...That's how this CNY redneck protects his eloctrolyte balance.


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## ozy365 (Jun 18, 2005)

The biggest benefit of sports drinks/juice (IMO) is that the flavor increases the amount you drink over plain water. Mixing a little bit of juice can double my fluid consumption.


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## fiddlesaw (Jun 20, 2005)

one of the first solo gigs I took, I will never forget. 75 feet up in a dead oak with nothing to drink and 88 degree weather. Thought I could run up the tree and slice and dice without a refill. I always take gatorade with me now. (unless I have a groundie)


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## gorman (Jun 20, 2005)

you should have a groundie anyway bro. even if it's one of friends that can't start a chainsaw to save his life.


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## JonnyHart (Jun 20, 2005)

gorman said:


> you should have a groundie anyway bro. even if it's one of friends that can't start a chainsaw to save his life.


No doubt. I saw on your profile that you prefer to do things alone, but climbing should not be one of them. There is a number of different bad things that can go wrong, even with the best arborists out there, and nobody would know. You could be knocked out in a tree with a head wound for hours before somebody noticed. You could be going into shock from dozens of bee or hornet stings, and nobody would know. I wouldn't do much more than split firewood alone.


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## pmuscato (Jun 20, 2005)

Did anybody mention pickle juice for cramps, works for me I cramp bad in the summer, tried Gatoraid makes me feel sluggish and didn't help my cramping. Worked 4 hrs. Sat. was soaked to my boots with sweat. Pickle juice and water for me.


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## BranchWalker74 (Jun 20, 2005)

I felt the heat last week. I was removing a large Maple when we were pushing over 90 degrees. With high humidity. Myself and my groundie both had two one liter bottles of water each. We were out by 11 am. Unfortunitly the home owner keeps the out door water spickets shut off. We had to go next door and steel some water from there spicket.
Why is it that the richest people always shut those off from the inside?  I think I just need to start bringing a large water cooler with me on the hot days.


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## texasnative (Jun 21, 2005)

A five gallon watering cooler is a good investment


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 21, 2005)

JonnyHart said:


> Almost sounds nice. 130 here lately.



But it's a dry heat 

Take care.


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## Big A (Jun 22, 2005)

I've been using dioralyte electrolyte powder in bottled water in our warm spell to replace essentials lost due to perspiration, to be honest cant say if I feel any better for them or not, but maybe better safe than sorry I suppose.


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## teressa green (Jun 22, 2005)

bottle of water and salt and vinegar crisps ,loverley,


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## Al Smith (Jun 22, 2005)

About that leg cramp thing,been there.Old Charleys horses would get me right out of bed at 2 in the morning .The old doc prescribed old fashion quinine tablets,they worked.Not being a medical professional,I have no idea what was in them to counteract the cramps,but it sure was nice to be rid of them.When you drink about 2 gal of water a day,without visiting the John,you know,for a fact,you are loosing water.


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