# how to do limb walking with nothing above to tie into?



## clifforion (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi everyone if this has been covered before I am sorry I couldn't find specific answers for my 2 questions. 
I have posted on here about chainsaws and have had great people with great advice. Now I have a 2 specific climbing questions, which are almost the same scenario.
I work for a tree service that uses a bucket truck for ALL their tree work. I started to climb on my own and have done some removals and trimmings, so I have an idea of how to climb. I have a tree that a friend of a friend wants removed. I believe its a form of cherry that go straight up for...20-30 feet then does a sharp turn horizontal and arches over their house. It almost looks like a rainbow. There are no other trees nearby to tie myself off with. I have no other way to do it except climb it ( or they need someone with a bucket truck). I was wondering if there was any good suggestions on how to approach this tree? Again I have climbed and feel comfy enough with basic stuff and some advanced stuff, but not this. The tree is probably just from memory about 18-20" ,if anything its bigger than smaller, at the base and tapers up accordingly.
My next question is almost the same problem, it is an oak tree that I haven't done cause I really don't have a good way again of doing it. It was a really good size oak 30+ inches at the base, that the top got blown off of by a micro burst. I can climb up to the limb that that needs to be done with no problems it just ripped it off a few feet above that. There is only one limb left off the stem, that goes out about 12-18 feet horizontal then does a turn skyward at about a 20 degree angle for a good ways then goes vertical the rest of the way. By the time it gets vertical I would venture to guess its around 4-5 inches in diameter, maybe a little bigger. The limb is very strong if I could tie off above or to the side of it, I could limb walk no problem on it even with full weight. Its strong enough to get out to where it goes vertical but I don't really know how to get out there, and also its still a little big and really could be pieced down even more in the vertical part so going up that would really help.
My camera died a month or so ago so sorry no pictures but the first tree looks like 3/4s of a rainbow honestly just straighter in the beginning, and the other tree looks like someones arm and elbow kinda straight out then turns up at little, then straight up. I can try to explain better if someone needs more explaining. 
Thank your your time and patience.
Keith


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## Zale (Nov 13, 2012)

Use a bucket. Right tool for the job.


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## clifforion (Nov 13, 2012)

*there must be a way to do it no?*

I know a bucket would be easier by far, and if I don't get any good recommendations, that is what will happen, I have already talked with the people and that route might happen anyway. Both jobs are more like favors than money makers so I am not going to kill myself by any means.

Not to take up any-ones time or beat a dead horse but is this type of job even possible? Or should I say possible with out being Harry Hudini? 

Sorry not trying to be a smart..aleck or take up peoples time just thought maybe there was a way to climb them that I haven't seen or come up with on my own. I am still learning and I don't have any real person to learn from as far as the climbing aspect goes. Am trying to learn not hurt myself and not over work myself either. 

Thanks again in advance
Keith


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## CNBTreeTrimming (Nov 13, 2012)

Take loop runners and girth hitch them in series to make steps out as far as you need to go. Find the best tie in you can and use a lanyard to position yourself.


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## clifforion (Nov 13, 2012)

*Thank you for the idea*

Thank you the loop runner sounds like a great idea. I failed to mention that they are both removals so having spikes on is an option, but I am still learning so any information either way is much appreciated.
Again Thank you for your time.
Keith


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## pdqdl (Nov 14, 2012)

Loopies are ok, but not very many are rated for life support. Be careful.

Depending on your athletic talent and your courage, you can go all the way up & out suspended on the bottom of the branch from your lanyard & your climbing line. Just keep advancing your suspension point and keep going up/out on the limb. Having some ascenders will be a big benefit here. Once you get to where the cuts need to be made, then you need to have figured out some way to lower the pieces from your suspended position.

edit: It is very useful to leave your loopies holding your climbing line as you ascend the branch. It gives you additional security in case the tip breaks off and it speeds you up a lot working back down.


This kind of work is tremendously exhausting; you had better be ready for that kind of exertion. If I were to try that stunt now (as opposed to 20 years ago), I would probably have some big problems getting done.


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## wouter (Nov 14, 2012)

Is there a possibility to install a highline in trees around it ? 
Could be a nice option and gives you just the extra support that you need in both cases. 

I had to deal with a situation you mentioned with the oak some years ago and I kind of tackled the horizontal part using multiple tie in point, just like mountaineers on their first way up.

The footloops are perfect and real handy, use them every now and then. 
Keep in mind the oak might be much worse as you think, make sure you do a serious pre climb inspection. the blown out top could easily overstressed this branch as well.

If you for only a second think it's not worth dying for get yourself a telescopic crane and be home fast and safe.

Climb safe


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## clifforion (Nov 14, 2012)

*Thank you for your suggestions*

Both trees have nothing around them...or nothing close enough or usefull enough to tie into. I have really really looked hard for every option like that, I have done that before and I can't come up with a good one, that was why I was asking what other people think. Neither tree has to be done by me again they are more of a favor than anything else. The oak tree I would like to do though, and the top got blown off but I have already climbed up there to the limb and its supper solid. I can't drop the tree cause it leans slightly over a fence and the limb is in the direction of the lean so that limb has to come off first no matter how I proceed after that. The cherry tree...honestly I really think I am just going to let someone else do it cause I am not in super fantastic shape I really don't think I would have enough oomph to wiggle my out there, except for maybe the slings trick...I'll think about that one a lot more before I make a decision.
I thank you for your suggestions and help, these 2 trees have kind of been baffling me as to how everyone else does them. I am still newish to the climbing trade and was wondering how others climb (or don't) trees/limbs like that.
Again thank you
Keith


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## pdqdl (Nov 14, 2012)

wouter said:


> ...
> 
> If you for only a second think it's not worth dying for get yourself a telescopic crane and be home fast and safe.
> 
> Climb safe



There is a lot to be said for riding the hook!


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## Youngbuck20 (Nov 14, 2012)

Rent a cherry picker, your body will thank you. Like you said your not gunna kill yourself over it.


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## cjtreeclimber (Nov 14, 2012)

I would try to do two climb lines from trees beside it If I could, or maybe use a long latter but be sure to tie it off to the tree and yourself at another point. I've had a couple crazy jobs like that too. I did a hazard Job where about an 80 ft oak tree was cracking and leaning towards a 500 k home, and I went up with two climb lines attached to trees beside this one, and plus I ran into a nest of coons. I had another tree where I just didn't have the choice but to worm my way out and rig sections of it off (what a pain!) because it was clear over a house top. Mid way through that one I find a hallow spot in the tree that started gushing water all over me as I made my cut.


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Nov 14, 2012)

wouter said:


> Is there a possibility to install a highline in trees around it ?
> Could be a nice option and gives you just the extra support that you need in both cases.
> 
> I had to deal with a situation you mentioned with the oak some years ago and I kind of tackled the horizontal part using multiple tie in point, just like mountaineers on their first way up.
> ...



I was thinking the same as wouter, high line above you from 2 close by tree's, if no trees close than just turn the job down and move on, I did this last month, oak with no tie in point above me, gave the job to a local guy with bucket truck.


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## clifforion (Nov 14, 2012)

*I think I have figured out what I will do*

Thank you for all your responses. I am 99% sure that the cherry tree over the house will go to someone else cause its just not a job for me. I don't personally have a bucket truck and to rent any form of a lift or bucket would just cost me money. I really honestly think the job is kinda small for a crane but it will be someone else that makes the final decision not me.The oak tree I am just going to tie in at the base of the branch weasel my way out and do some form of a girth hitch with the straps to put my feet in use my lanyard and another climb line to make sure if I do go over it won't be a bad ride. 
I now have more knowledge and some great ideas though for future jobs when something like this comes up again.
Again thank you all for your time!
Keith


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## Bermie (Nov 14, 2012)

Good for you, know your limits!
Smart and poor is better than dead and rich.

I always have at least two loop runners on my harness for going up limbs with no branches. Get a few of them of some different sizes. Get rated ones, they should have a label on them that says 22 or 23kN.

Just a tip, if you use your lanyard on a skinny trunk/branch, wrap it all the way around once to give you a better grip, and it won't flop down if you happen to take your weight off it when moving around.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Butt scoot out there!:hmm3grin2orange: 
install a line from the ground where you are trying to end up at out there and climb the rope? Hard to say with no pics


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## Bermie (Nov 15, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Butt scoot out there!:hmm3grin2orange:



Haha, done that enough times too!


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## squad143 (Nov 18, 2012)

clifforion said:


> to rent any form of a lift or bucket would just cost me money.



Rethink your thinking; It will cost the customer money.

Quote it with the rental cost factored in. If you get the job, you're making money. If not, nothing lost, other than a bit of time.


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## Norwayclimber (Nov 18, 2012)

They we're both takedowns, so spikes are in the game. Just walk all the way up. 

Stay on top of the rainbow and you'll move fast, have an exciting time (always reminds me of long runouts on slabs when rockclimbing) but if you slipp, you will slipp quite a bit. Double wrap the lanyard arround the stem (Bermies chick trick ) for better balance, but slower moving. If you decide to walk on the top, its important to have lots of slack in your lanyard, and get your butt away form the tree, so your spikes penetrate the wood at an almost 90 degrees angle. Feels unsafe, but is safter. Shorten the lanyard and "hug" the stem, and your spikes will pop a lot easier. If you need to move to one of the sides of the lean, you can githhitch your climingline arround the stem, and pull/lower yourself on it

Climbing on the "underside" of the rainbow is safer, but way more exhausting.


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## TreeGuyHR (Nov 18, 2012)

cjtreeclimber said:


> I would try to do two climb lines from trees beside it If I could, or maybe use a long latter but be sure to tie it off to the tree and yourself at another point. I've had a couple crazy jobs like that too. I did a hazard Job where about an 80 ft oak tree was cracking and leaning towards a 500 k home, and I went up with two climb lines attached to trees beside this one, and plus I ran into a nest of coons. I had another tree where I just didn't have the choice but to worm my way out and rig sections of it off (what a pain!) because it was clear over a house top. Mid way through that one I find a hallow spot in the tree that started gushing water all over me as I made my cut.



Similar oak: half of it cracked off in a an ice storm and wiped out a section of the metal barn. Just for S & G, there is not one put two propane tanks under the tree as well. My climber and I scoped it out, and he decided he wanted t spike up the tree and cut small limbs from the top and either toss them or rig them off a tree nearby (30 ft. away). That being the case, we would run a tag line through the mini port-a-wrap I have yet to use to slow down the swing (the top of the tree will be just below the block in the fir in the background). He is a fan of chunking with break cuts, and will probably cut and toss all the wood.

He says that he likely won't tie in to another tree, because they are to far away and his tie in would start out almost horizontal. At the break, the trunk on the upside of the lean is left, representing about 60% of the diameter and about 12 in. thick.

Finally, I am building a crib around the tanks just in case...

photos:

View attachment 262876
View attachment 262877


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## TreeGuyHR (Nov 18, 2012)

TreeGuyHR said:


> Similar oak: half of it cracked off in a an ice storm and wiped out a section of the metal barn. Just for S & G, there is not one put two propane tanks under the tree as well. My climber and I scoped it out, and he decided he wanted t spike up the tree and cut small limbs from the top and either toss them or rig them off a tree nearby (30 ft. away). That being the case, we would run a tag line through the mini port-a-wrap I have yet to use to slow down the swing (the top of the tree will be just below the block in the fir in the background). He is a fan of chunking with break cuts, and will probably cut and toss all the wood.
> 
> He says that he likely won't tie in to another tree, because they are to far away and his tie in would start out almost horizontal. At the break, the trunk on the upside of the lean is left, representing about 60% of the diameter and about 12 in. thick.
> 
> ...



Correction:

The first pick above is of some additional trees at the other end of the barn; the second is a close up of the break of the tree i am talking about. Following is one shows the base of the split tree and the tanks, and one of the trunk and top. The fir in the background would be hung with a block for lowering limbs:

View attachment 262878
View attachment 262879


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## clifforion (Nov 18, 2012)

*wow i gota get on here more offten*

I guess I have to get on here more than I do. Tons of new responses. At this point the cherry tree just won't get done by me. I am not in good enough shape and there won't be much of a financial gain to make me do the butt scootch out there. The oak tree really isn't all that bad I have a few ideas and the loop runner idea I think will work really good on that cause once I get out there I can actually kinda tie into something a tad more vertical so that will work. At this point I am just soaking up ideas on what people do in these situations. Still relatively new to the game, and really don't want to make that one bad (or stupid) mistake.
Thanks again for your help, Fyi I prob. won't get to the oak till this coming weekend ( after thanksgiving) I will give you all an update. I will try hard to get pics for you all I know pictures are worth a 1000 words its just that my dang camera died and I haven't got a new one.
Thanks!
Keith


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## Goose IBEW (Nov 19, 2012)

I use my cell phone for pictures most of the time. The oak sounds like it may be a good tree to practice using two tie in points. Good luck, be safe.


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## treemanbrisbane (Nov 23, 2012)

The main problem with being a newbie for challenging jobs is you aren't confident enough to charge enough for your hard work. Trust me, when you are worn out and broke you regret it.

Try to charge the same as your old boss would.

As for technique, we've all done that butt-scooting enough  though the underside is faster. It depends who's watching  If it's just you and the tree do what you like. If you have groundies, keep your pride and hang from the tree branch.

Of course, you still have to get the tree carved up. I'd start thinking about how you're going to get it to your drop zone. Can you get out far enough to take a small enough section that you can throw it safe? Good luck, mate. And don't be embarrassed to walk away from a tree removal you can't do safely.

Better to be a live dog than a dead lion, as the good book says.


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## clifforion (Nov 23, 2012)

*Thanks for all your help*

Hi there everyone thanks for all your suggestions, there has been some great advice. I am still new to the game (of climbing) and I don't climb enough so my skills and stamina are not yet there and that plays a huge part. Both these jobs were not money makers from the start, but that didn't matter I knew that going in. The cherry tree I already told the people to get someone else, someone willing to climb or a bucket or what ever. The oak I did today. It worked out good. I spiked up to the only branch left on the stem ( again it went out horizontal then vertical just like looking at someones arm straight out to elbow then straight up). I then thew my climb line out to the branch about halfway up, found the biggest crotch I could, let the end down and had the ground guy tie off on to the base of the tree (yes I trust my ground guy enough for that). Wrapped my lanyard twice around the horizontal part of the branch and did the butt scootch out on the horizontal part. Spiked in when it went vertical up to my climb line...it got thinner than I than I thought out there but it worked out good. I cut and threw everything. I should have thought more about coming back. I had the ground guy untie the line and I pulled it back up. I didn't have anything to tie in to higher than me though. But I used my lanyard and climb line wrapping both around the branch..not really sure why I used both but I had them with me, plus I could slide down my climb line if I had to get out in hurry. I did the same butt scootch back in, but backwards, cause I had to cut manageable pieces as I went...kinda awkward though with out the branch in front of me. I just placed an order for some more webbing slings so I can have something to put my feet in like suggested earlier, that would have helped a lot. It all worked out well enough the way I did it though, thank you again for all your help. At least I know now in the future what options I do have other than the butt scootch.
I know I really need a camera next time. My camera died like I said and my cam on the phone is really scratched up I tried with that but it didn't work.
Thanks again!
Keith


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

Some jobs are just made for buckets.


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## clifforion (Dec 8, 2012)

expertech said:


> Some jobs are just made for buckets.




That is very true

Thank you all again
Keith


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