# Ideas for the perfect hydraulic chainsaw?



## LANDIV8 (Apr 28, 2011)

I am looking for advice for a chainsaw I plan to design and manufacture. I understand some people are not fans of hydraulic chainsaws but they do have a lot of plus points in certain situations. My questions are:

What safety features would people want the saw to have?

What is the ideal chain speed / speed the drive sprocket will need to spin at?

I plan on using a generic OREGON bar

Ideas would be great? My target market is underwater cutting of wood. I figured the people who use chainsaws day in day out know what they want


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## indiansprings (Apr 28, 2011)

The last military unit I was in before retiring was a Combat Engineering BN Cbt Heavy basically a construction unit, from building to bridges/runways etc. We got hydraulic chainsaws to plug into our Mercedes small emplacement excavators (SEE's)
the hydraulic saws pretty much where horrible for land use.
Heavy, 1/2" hoses heavy, cumbersome, trip hazards. 
They ran 404 chain on a regular bar. It had just a small hand guard like the old time saws before chain brakes. A brake isn't needed as the chain stops the second you let off the trigger. I've seen they already make underwater units is you do a google search on hydraulic saws. I really don't think there is much room for improvement for what is already on the market. They are really pretty simple. The thing your going to have to worry about is having enough pump/engine to provide the needed hydraulic flow.


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## Timberframed (Apr 28, 2011)

ICS makes several models of hydraulic chain saws. Stihl 090 mount. RPM's and chain speed is up there but so is the price. It's the only way I think you can do it practically underwater and such.


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## LANDIV8 (Apr 28, 2011)

indiansprings said:


> The last military unit I was in before retiring was a Combat Engineering BN Cbt Heavy basically a construction unit, from building to bridges/runways etc. We got hydraulic chainsaws to plug into our Mercedes small emplacement excavators (SEE's)
> the hydraulic saws pretty much where horrible for land use.
> Heavy, 1/2" hoses heavy, cumbersome, trip hazards.
> They ran 404 chain on a regular bar. It had just a small hand guard like the old time saws before chain brakes. A brake isn't needed as the chain stops the second you let off the trigger. I've seen they already make underwater units is you do a google search on hydraulic saws. I really don't think there is much room for improvement for what is already on the market. They are really pretty simple. The thing your going to have to worry about is having enough pump/engine to provide the needed hydraulic flow.


 
Like you say the hoses are where things get tricky. I don't want to copy Stanley of Fairmont's designs but there are only so many ways you can make a hydraulic chainsaw.

Both saws use their own hydraulic motor design. The stanley CS06 is a really light saw. I have sold a few units to people with noise issues. The joy of the hydraulic chainsaw is it can be used by farmers and contruction employees that have access to a hydraulic power source (tractor, landrover, unimog). My main problem is finding/designing a compact powerfull hydraulic motor.


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## LANDIV8 (Apr 28, 2011)

Timberframed said:


> ICS makes several models of hydraulic chain saws. Stihl 090 mount. RPM's and chain speed is up there but so is the price. It's the only way I think you can do it practically underwater and such.



ICS only manufacture concrete cutting chainsaws I think? Good saws but they dont have to worry about weight. Although I guess you can have the lightestchainsaw out there but there will still be a large set of pipes attached to it. The ICS saws require a minimum 20hp power pack.

The underwater saw will be cutting Lignum vitae type wood (Sinks in water). What would be the best Chain/bar combination for this?


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## brokenbudget (Apr 28, 2011)

whats going to be the benefit of running a hydro saw at a construction site or any other site for that matter? there won't be any benefit of running a tractor or trailered hydro source. why run an engine that guzzles fuel, takes up way more space and means more tripping hazzards around the site? let alone the length of the hoses are going to be a limiting factor if you can't get the hydro unit close enough,and thats if the pump has the right flow and pressure the saw asks for. another thing to think about is the cost of the unit. why spend money on something that requires an extra power source to run when a good gas chainsaw is everything in one package.
even under water, with a good veggie oil there is going to be BIG restrctions on where and what your cutting. even if there was a slightly bigger market for a good hydraulic chainsaw, how many do you plan on selling?
sounds to me like you need to think of a better money making idea.
if there was a market, we would be hip deep in these already.:msp_smile:


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## Timberframed (Apr 28, 2011)

"ICS only manufacture concrete cutting chainsaws." I converted My 633 GC to cut wood by simply changing the rim, bar and chain. I can go back and forth.




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## SDB777 (Apr 29, 2011)

LANDIV8 said:


> The underwater saw will be cutting Lignum vitae type wood (Sinks in water)


 
Is there enough logs in the water to justify designing, building, and manufacturing this saw? 
How many units are you going to build, and how big is the market(group of people) that will be buying this saw?


Sometimes the best saw for the job has already been made...
If there are already hydraulic saws on the market(military grade or otherwise), why aren't those saws being used?






Scott B


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## BobL (Apr 29, 2011)

LANDIV8 said:


> The joy of the hydraulic chainsaw is it can be used by farmers and contruction employees that have access to a hydraulic power source (tractor, landrover, unimog). My main problem is finding/designing a compact powerfull hydraulic motor.


 
I'm not sure I would call it a joy. I wouldn't want my multi thousand dollar machine anywhere near a tree when it was being fallen so in effect it becomes a secondary saw that has a some benefits and some restrictions. 

Most people don't go cutting firewood with the vehicle with hyro output but with a pickup so they would have to cart a hydraulic pack with them.

I can't see much use in construction either. My cousins that build everything from cubby houses to 50,000 sqft ware houses all in timber use a lot of conventional chainsaws in their constructions. The way the use them is like a tree lopper, ie small top handler CSs almost on their belts and scramble all over the work/building site for quick cuts etc. They also have several CS engine powered portable bandsaws (not Ripsaws) with about a 12" wide cut that they use the same way and for cutting curved profiles on site on the ends of large (eg 12 x 12") roofing beams. There is no way they would even think of dragging hoses or lumping hydro packs instead.

How far underwater do you need to cut? Instead of an hydraulic saw what about a beefed up pole saw?

If it's for CS milling then just use the four stroke engine instead.

If it's "just cos" - then forget what I said above and go for it. 

As far as safety features go I'd be look at ways not to cut the hoses - jets of high pressure hydro fluid are not nice to deal with.


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## BlueRider (Apr 30, 2011)

One time when I was milling I got to talking to a guy that used a Stanley hydro saw for clean up in urban creeks and sensitive wetland areas. He used one of those quiet Honda generators to provide electricity to drive an electric hydraulic pump unit.

The interesting thing that got us talking about his hydro saw was the fact that I use Stihl's veggie bar oil and he was curious about it. He uses veggie based hydraulic oil and he pays a fortune for it.

His reasons for using the hydro saw were its lack of noise, since he would often work in urban areas and near sensitive wetland wildlife. He also felt it polluted less. I don't think he was taking into account the pollution from his generator so not much of a point to me. It is an amazingly light saw and for cutting submerged logs without having to try and drag them out of the water it is definitely the way to go, this was also one of the reasons he was using the hydro unit. 

I think the only other use where a hydro say might have an advantage is on a log deck, but the hoses might create more of a safety hazard than the lightweight and instant stop offers in safety advantages.

I have no idea how much a complete hydro saw and pump costs but I could see where it might be a cost effective way to mill slabs with a four stroke engine. It would get the rpm’s up to 9k where they need to be and you could use a large mount stihl bar. You would have the option of short hoses and mounting your motor & pump on the carriage or longer hoses and a stationary pump/motor. Might be aeasier than dealing with gears, pulleys, sprocket and clutch adapters for a chainsaw bar


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## derwoodii (Apr 30, 2011)

Have you tried cuttin wood with a saw under water. My experience is it don't work so well. The bar oil dilutes fast and the chain drags with that all this while you take a heavy shower in the water rooster tail it leaves. May need hi lube or grease delivery to chain to help here.

I have dreamed of a hydro unit that runs of a truck or ute/pickup PTO so you can plug in from and outlet a hydro saw to work as required. 
I've used many hydro pole saws for trimming works they seem to be ok for small bar tasks I worry hydro is not well suited to big wood cuttin millin jobs.


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