# need advise on setting up 4 or 5 to 1 pulley for felling trees & possible port-a-wra



## Tree Raptor (Dec 20, 2011)

Looking to purchase (set up) a 4 or 5 to 1 pulley set up for felling trees when needed. Looked at a few videos and went thru Wesspurs catalog. Right now we have 2 large blocks and using them but since I only have one ground man there are rare occasions where I need all the pulling I can get. Saw video on utube with 5:1 using Prussik Minding pulleys so that my ground man won't loose his efforts. This method uses a prussik to "hold" the pulled load. Not sure if this method is best or use some other type pulleys with other type "progress capture device". 

don't mind spending good money to get the best but need to determine which is the best route to take. Not sure what the specific difference or purpose is between fiddle block pulleys and other types of pulleys. Just looking for a good straight forward 5:1 setup with a rope locking device. I don't know if some of progress capture devices do any damage to the rope vs using a friction prussik.

I have read that 1000 lbs would be the max anyone would want to pull on a tree so can I would assume that we would limit our pull rope to 1/2". My other 2 large CMI and aluminum pulleys take up to 5/8". Probably looking to use pull rope through pulleys and not a seperate rope as mentioned in the video. 

Also this 5:1 pulley setup would be nice if I could also us it with the port-a-wrap if necessary. 

Am including the youtube video link of the 5:1 that I saw so you can see his setup and other options that should be considered. 

Tree Pulling Kit 5:1 Mechanical Advantage - YouTube (it's called Tree pulling kit 5:1 mechanical advantage)

Thanks

Tree Raptor


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## Pelorus (Dec 20, 2011)

"I have read that 1000 lbs would be the max anyone would want to pull on a tree"

I'm really curious where you came across that figure. 
On some bad leaners, even using multiples of 1000's still causes the ole sphincter to pucker up wondering if I should have taken more time to set a 2nd or 3rd line.


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## Bearcreek (Dec 20, 2011)

Tree Raptor said:


> I have read that 1000 lbs would be the max anyone would want to pull on a tree so can I would assume that we would limit our pull rope to 1/2". Tree Raptor



The pull required would vary widely depending on tree size, species, back lean, side lean, branch configuration, height of the tie in point, ratio of tree mass above the TIP to mass below, etc, etc. 1000 lbs. would often be sufficient but certainly not always.


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## defensiblespace (Dec 20, 2011)

We have some big arse trees here in the sierras and the only thing i ever use is a vector pull or other forms of a 2:1 in conjunction with wedges. This requires minimal gear and it gets the job done every time. The trick is to get your attachment point high enough in the tree that you get good leverage.


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## VA-Sawyer (Dec 20, 2011)

I took an older 150' PI climbing line and 2 of the dual pulleys from Sherrill PN 15217 and built a 5:1 system that I use quite a bit. I have a prussik on the pull line just on the other side of the pulley to hold the gain. I also use a pussik to attach it to the bull rope most of the time. Makes for quick setup with fast adjustments. On serious pulls I tie a BOAB in the bull rope and attach with heavy steel biner. I had one pull job where we used 5/8 bull rope, my 1/2" 5:1 and a set of fiddle blocks pulling on the pull line of my 5:1 to pull a tree back over center. Two of us pulling with 25:1 (plus friction) to get it moving in the right direction. Not the way I planned it ( amount of load ) , but it sure proved the concept and strength of setup.

I keep the whole setup (rigged pulleys with attached biners) in a milk crate for fast deployment. Grab correct size sling from sling bag and attach unit to tree. One biner is painted to indicate anchor end. Grab other end, hold capture prussik in released position and walk to desired position on bull rope. Put large prussik on bull rope and attach pulley with second biner. It took me longer to type the instructions than to set it up. When job is finished, pull tag end till pulleys are butted and feed tag into crate putting pulleys with biners in last. 
When used with a porty, it does better if you use a pulley at base of work tree to redirect line to porty on another tree and attach 5:1 on horizontal run for lifting branches and such. (Not needed if just taking up a foot or two of slack above porty).

Total parts list: 2 pulleys, 2 rigging biners, 1 small prussik for gain capture, 1 heavier prussik for attaching rig to bull rope, 1 oval link for attaching rope spliced eye to pulley.

I have also used it for controlling tension on zipline, dragging logs up on tilt trailer, lifting feed roller off chipper for maintenance, and helping tug for stuck vehicle.

Rick


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 20, 2011)

The setup the guy built in the video is only a 4:1 system. If it was a 5:1 the rope he would be pulling on would be coming from the tree. First off, I wont want to have my pulley setup made out of the rope I am pulling with. If you need to readjust or lower, your screwed. I bought a fiddle block setup from baileys. The pulleys are alum, light weight, and has its own progress capture device. On big trees, I always use a 3 ton comalong with amsteel blue rope.


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## TimberMcPherson (Dec 21, 2011)

I have a sling full of biners, pulleys, jumars etc. I just add bits as I need to make the pull stronger. But generally if we are doing anything serious, there is 5 tirfors waiting to be put to work.


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## Tree Raptor (Dec 21, 2011)

*follow up on 5:1 pulley setup*

got some interesting and great info. Couple of questions that i forgot to ask in my first post. 

Notice that everyone is using some sort of friction device knot to attached top pulley to pull line. Currently I just take the pull line quit a distance away from the tree i am using as the anchor tree to attached pulley and I just double the pull line and make a bowline knot (same as regular bowline except that the line is folded (doubled) over itself so that it can be undone easily. 

Since I have not used a prussik friction on the pull line to anchor the first pulley I am concerned that "slippage" might be a problem whereas with tying a Bowline in the pull line making a large loop big enough to attached directly to the pulley sheave seams to be more positive and safe as their is no chance for slippage as top pulley is in the enclosed loop. 

I assuming that the biners I intend to use for both ends connecting pulleys should be of the highest weight rating. I see that some are rated well over 10k and the price difference between the 5 & 6k and the 10 and above "K" is minimal so would guess go with the highest available. 

Has anyone used any of the other "progress friction" devices out there (Gibb brand in Wespur) and how well to they work and do they wear the line in any way ? Again the reason that I am asking is just looking for the best, safest and quickest way to configure the 5:1 setup and I really don't care about cost.


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## Tree Raptor (Dec 21, 2011)

*5:1 pulley system (followup)*



2treeornot2tree said:


> The setup the guy built in the video is only a 4:1 system. If it was a 5:1 the rope he would be pulling on would be coming from the tree. First off, I wont want to have my pulley setup made out of the rope I am pulling with. If you need to readjust or lower, your screwed. I bought a fiddle block setup from baileys. The pulleys are alum, light weight, and has its own progress capture device. On big trees, I always use a 3 ton comalong with amsteel blue rope.



I am not an expert on pulley ratio's as I am just getting into it now but the quote below came from a document on mechanical advantages found on the net and copying it below and if it is correct then it would be impossible for the setup on youtube to be a 4:1 as the tied off end is attached to the load. 

"If the tied off end of the rope in a simple pulley system is attached to the load, the mechanical advantage will be an odd number: if it is on the anchor it will be an even number"


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## VA-Sawyer (Dec 21, 2011)

Make the prussik loop out of rope at least one size smaller than the bull rope and slippage won't be a problem. You can always add another turn to the prussik for even more grip, if you want. The only reason I tie a BOAB in the bull rope on really hard pulls is concern about the strength of the prussik loop. My 'heavy' loop is 3/8" mountain climbing line rated over 5,000 lbs and is the weak link in the system. If I had one made from a good 1/2" rope, I could put a lot of pull on my 5/8 bull without concern. 
And yes, that was a 5:1 in the video.
Rick


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## squad143 (Dec 21, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> The setup the guy built in the video is only a 4:1 system. If it was a 5:1 the rope he would be pulling on would be coming from the tree.



I disagree.

To understand whether a Mechanical Advantage systems is odd or even:
If your line is terminated at your load, then your system is odd (1:1, 3:1, 5:1)
If your line is terminate at you anchor, then your system is even (2:1, 4:1, 6:1)
This is with your force away from the load.



Sorry, Tree Raptor, I did not see you previous post. The quoted statement you gave is correct.


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## squad143 (Dec 21, 2011)

I have the 5:1 kit from Sherrill. Petzl/SherrillTree Tree Pulling Kit : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment Mine is an older version, but basically the same. Two double pulleys and a couple of eye to eye prussics.

I rarely use the pull rope as part of my mechanical advantage system. As others have pointed out, a pita if you have to readjust/reset. 
I keep mine pre-rigged with 50' of rope (good for 10' of continous pull before needing a reset). I keep the system ready to go in a rope bag.

Using a mechanical device as your rope grab for your pull rope is quicker, but my main concern is the grab biting too much into the rope and desheathing it if loaded too much. Prussic tend to slip if overloaded, but not always. They can desheath the rope as well, so it helps to know your forces and equipment.

One main advantage of the fiddle block system, is that it has a very narrow profile as compared to the bulky double pulleys. I purchased the pulley kit because I could use the pulleys for other rigging applications.




Tree Raptor said:


> just looking for the best, safest and quickest way to configure the 5:1 setup and I really don't care about cost.


You could just buy a GRCS, have a 44:1 MA and be done with it.


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## squad143 (Dec 21, 2011)

Usually if I'm doing a pull, I'll incorporate a port-a-wrap into the system. This way it holds the line while I have to reset my 5:1 MA system.

It is real handy, especially on Highlines as seen in this picture I took at an arborist seminar. The haul system was seperate and around the anchor tree as well, but removed before I could take the picture.


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## CUCV (Dec 21, 2011)

Squad can you explain more why it is a pita to readjust/reset the Sherrill 5:1 while using just the pull line? I'm always trying to improve my setup. I built my own kit for $100 ie. had the biners, bought 2 prussic cords and 2 double pulleys (same rating as the Petzl just less cash) and find it very handy. I like the system because I don't have to bring an extra rope and I find it easy to readjust and reset. In theory I could pull an object to the anchor point the length of pull rope minus termination knot and say 5' to get 1' of pulley before the first reset.





squad143 said:


> I have the 5:1 kit from Sherrill. Petzl/SherrillTree Tree Pulling Kit : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment Mine is an older version, but basically the same. Two double pulleys and a couple of eye to eye prussics.
> 
> I rarely use the pull rope as part of my mechanical advantage system. As others have pointed out, a pita if you have to readjust/reset.
> I keep mine pre-rigged with 50' of rope (good for 10' of continous pull before needing a reset). I keep the system ready to go in a rope bag.
> ...


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## Tree Pig (Dec 21, 2011)

CUCV said:


> Squad can you explain more why it is a pita to readjust/reset the Sherrill 5:1 while using just the pull line? I'm always trying to improve my setup. I built my own kit for $100 ie. had the biners, bought 2 prussic cords and 2 double pulleys (same rating as the Petzl just less cash) and find it very handy. I like the system because I don't have to bring an extra rope and I find it easy to readjust and reset. In theory I could pull an object to the anchor point the length of pull rope minus termination knot and say 5' to get 1' of pulley before the first reset.



what pulleys did you buy... I need some and that is like $200 less then buying most others I found... well thats if it fits 5/8 rope that is.


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## squad143 (Dec 21, 2011)

squad143 said:


> I rarely use the pull rope as part of my mechanical advantage system. As others have pointed out, a pita if you have to reset



Sorry, too much Christmas cheer.:redface:

In my mind, I was thinking of doing a raise (or tensioning) and then doing a lower.

If doing just a straight pull on dropping a tree, then yes the 5:1 will work on a single rope. Because of my system being pre-rigged, I rarely do it that way anymore.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 22, 2011)

squad143 said:


> I disagree.
> 
> To understand whether a Mechanical Advantage systems is odd or even:
> If your line is terminated at your load, then your system is odd (1:1, 3:1, 5:1)
> ...



I disagree with you. I have built lots of pulley setups through the fire service. I have even built a 18:1 a couple times. What was shown on the video is a 4:1. If it was a 5:1 it would terminate at the anchor. It is just confusing because it is not a piggy backed system because he is using the main line. If this video was a 5:1 then my fiddle block would be a 5:1 and it is for sure a 4:1. As far as hooking to the rope. You can use a gibbs or something simular. I prefer to use 2 8mm prussiks on a 1/2" or 5/8" line. They will not slip and will not cut the line like a gibbs will if you shock load it. A 300 lb weight dropped 6' will cut a 1/2" 10,000 lb mbs rope with a gibbs. The same drop test with a double prusik just locks the prusiks and melted a little of the outer sheath of the rope. How you make the prusiks work is one of the prussik loops is shorter then the other. I like using a 5' piece, and a 6' piece of 8mm cord before tying your double fishermans knot. I can post pics if needed.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 22, 2011)

*I have it all ...*



2treeornot2tree said:


> ... On big trees, I always use a 3 ton comalong with amsteel blue rope.



Early on I bought a block and tackle setup but haven't used it in years, now for smaller stuff I have a couple of manual rope pullers that I use with 3 strand rope, but I also have a gas powered capstan winch that I can put on if I want a continuous pull. I also have probably the same 3 ton comealong that you have with about 30' of Amsteel blue. It came with a pulley mounted on a hook which I've never used, but wouldn't that double the force applied? I carry the 3 ton in the dump truck in case I have to pull it out from somewhere.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 22, 2011)

If you have blocks and a rescue pulley or even a micro, you can set up a block mechanical advantage system. No need to go buy stuff you already have. I have CMI stainless blocks and a few rescue pulleys, with tenex slings, whoppies and loopies, you have all you need. I don't use a friction hitch on the line, tie a slip not in the middle and clip a biner in. I have had the hitches slip on me, not good. You shouldn't need more than 2 pulleys to get good pulling power, if you need more than that, then you need to look at your notch and holding wood. I see guys all the time, get to about 20% holding wood, then back out and expect the guys to pull it over, they are pulling and pulling, tree is coming over,but dont let go. If the guy cut to a proper percentage, it would take very little effort to pull it over. My favorite is the guy the sticks his bar in, legs ready to run, hits the gas real quick, runs out and turns around to see the tree still standing! He will do this 2 or 3 times till he gets enough cut out. If the just committed, and stayed there and made sure they had about 10%, they could save alot of stress and energy. I also will throw a stick in the back cut to keep it from sitting back, if the guys let up a bit. If yall want I can have Bobby lee MAKE A VIDEO for ya!:biggrin:


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## squad143 (Dec 22, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> then my fiddle block would be a 5:1 and it is for sure a 4:1.QUOTE]
> 
> Depending on how you rig your fiddle block, it could be a 4:1 or a 5:1.
> 
> ...


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## Tree Raptor (Dec 22, 2011)

*it looks like the video is a 5:1 (check out this)*

got some good feedback from everyone, thank you. The article on the double prussik vs Gibbs was excellent and answered my question perfectly. Everyone should check it out. 

In the continuing saga (debate) wether the orig video posted initially was a 5:1 or 4:1 as some have expressed, I copied a picture from a link from the "mechanical advantage" website posted by someone else and it shows a picture of a 5:1 which is the exact same setup as in the original video so it is a true 5:1 mechanical advantage system in that video. 

and after reviewing comments on prussik slippage and gibb wear on pull line I think I will stick to just making in slip knot (put a bowline in the pull rope midsteam) and just attach the first pulley to it. I just cannot see a better and safer way to connect the first pulley, no damage to the pull line and no slippage and one less piece of equipment to have) 


http://www.swe.org/iac/images/plly_081.jpg


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 22, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Early on I bought a block and tackle setup but haven't used it in years, now for smaller stuff I have a couple of manual rope pullers that I use with 3 strand rope, but I also have a gas powered capstan winch that I can put on if I want a continuous pull. I also have probably the same 3 ton comealong that you have with about 30' of Amsteel blue. It came with a pulley mounted on a hook which I've never used, but wouldn't that double the force applied? I carry the 3 ton in the dump truck in case I have to pull it out from somewhere.



If you use the More power puller comalong without the pulley and hook, it is only rated at 1.5 ton. To get the full load capacity of the comalong of 3 ton you need to use the pulley and in essence get a 2:1 ratio on the amstel rope. It takes twice as long to pull something over, but it sure is alot less force needed to crank the handle.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 22, 2011)

I just watched it again. It is a 4:1 with a direction change. It is a common mistake people make when making haul systems. To make a 5:1 you would need to have 3 pulleys at the tree.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 22, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> If you use the More power puller comalong without the pulley and hook, it is only rated at 1.5 ton. To get the full load capacity of the comalong of 3 ton you need to use the pulley and in essence get a 2:1 ratio on the amstel rope. It takes twice as long to pull something over, but it sure is alot less force needed to crank the handle.



Yes, that's the exact model I use, I guess 3000# of force is all I've ever needed. The end (9:20) of this video shows me using it along with a floor jack to drop a steeply leaning tree:

[video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0[/video]

My bull rope (19,500# tensile) has a spliced eye on the end and I use that to attach the wench, thereby avoiding either prussic or gibbs type device that could damage the rope.


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## no tree to big (Dec 22, 2011)

AA i'm suprised at 9:36 the jack did not get spit out... and I think you ran out of notch too shoulda been a nice wide one


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## squad143 (Dec 22, 2011)

2treeornot2tree

Check this site out: http://www.disasterengineer.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=M7QDgdTHWOw=&tabid=57&mid=395

Go to page 13 of 62. There is a box in the right hand side (middle). Title is 5:1 Simple Mechanical Advantage Pulley System

This is the system in the video.




squad143 said:


> If you have info to show otherwise, I'm always interested in learning.


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## squad143 (Dec 22, 2011)

Here is the pic from the link:


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## squad143 (Dec 22, 2011)

no tree to big said:


> AA i'm suprised at 9:36 the jack did not get spit out... and I think you ran out of notch too shoulda been a nice wide one



:agree2:


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## the Aerialist (Dec 23, 2011)

*Actually that was perfect ...*



no tree to big said:


> AA i'm suprised at 9:36 the jack did not get spit out... and I think you ran out of notch too shoulda been a nice wide one



The jack gets spit out when the tree falls and the notch was just right. You've obviously never tried it.


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## ForTheArborist (Dec 23, 2011)

AA, nice vid. How do you guys keep the gear so bright? The cameras can't even pick up that color 100%. So bright that there's a blur around the chirts and head gear.


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## imagineero (Dec 23, 2011)

Try googling 'prusik test load cell' for a whole bunch of pdf's of guys doing load cell rated fail tests on all types and sizes of prusik/rope combinations, knots and mechanical ascenders. The thing that surprises me on a lot of the tests if that as ropes/slings get older, they get a lot weaker. Prusiks are often stronger than mechanical ascenders, but still nowhere near the strength you might think you'd be getting. Many 1/4" prussiks fail at 1500lbs. Less if old. Mechanical ascenders/rop grabs really should not be used for this type of application though in my opinion. I havent yet seen load cell testing of the tenex prusiks that many of the kits come with.

I have a 5:1 fiddle block combo from a large yacht. Cant remember what it's rated too, but quite a lot. It's the main sail adjuster. It has a cam cleat as the lock. I dont use it all that often, but when I do it's handy. I keep it rigged with 150' of 1/2" line. 

Remember that you can stack your mechanical advantage also. The most common combo I use is a 2:1 behind another 2:1. I tie the main line to the tree, and use a bowline at the end. I attach a high rated bearing pulley to the bowline. I then tie another rope to whatever my anchor is, through the pulley and back. That's your 2:1. I then tie another bowline in this 'pull rope' and attach a progress capture pulley to it. I put the progress capture pulley here because it is under a lot less stress than the first pulley. Another rope from the anchor to the second pulley gives me a 2:1 pulling on a 2:1 for a theoretical 4:1. You dont quite get 4:1 because of losses but it's good. 

This is an easy thing because you've often already got a couple pulleys out and ready to go. You can stack all kinds of combinations, like 2:1 behind a 5:1 etc. One thing worth remembering is which parts of the system are getting different loads. Always put the strongest part of your gear closer to the tree in the system ie; put your biggest bull rope from the tree, then your biggest pulley and next biggest rope etc, put the weakest/smallest parts of the system farther away from the tree because they will see a lot less weight. For example, If I was going to stack my 2:1 and 5:1, I would definitely put the 2:1 first. My big pulley is rated to 20,000lbs, and I'd put my 7/8" double esterlon on it. Then I would attach the 5:1 on the pull of the 2:1, because it's rated for a lot less weight and only has half inch rope. With stacked systems, the final 'pull' may only be seeing as little as 1/10 of the load.

Shaun


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## the Aerialist (Dec 23, 2011)

*The blur is my halo ...*



ForTheAction said:


> AA, nice vid. How do you guys keep the gear so bright? The cameras can't even pick up that color 100%. So bright that there's a blur around the chirts and head gear.



Actually I bought the crew new safety green shirts for the job, those shirts aren't quite as bright now.


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## tree MDS (Dec 23, 2011)

Comealongs are so 80's... I mean seriously, I can't imagine a real treeguy going there, just saying. Click, click.. lmao! Some serious porch material right there!


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 23, 2011)

I thought about getting one of those capstan winches, but what do you do it you have to stop pulling. Shut off the motor? Does anyone have one, and if so how does it work for pulling over trees?


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## the Aerialist (Dec 23, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I thought about getting one of those capstan winches, but what do you do it you have to stop pulling. Shut off the motor? Does anyone have one, and if so how does it work for pulling over trees?



After you put 2 ~ 3 wraps on the capstan the tale of the rope passes through the fairlead which is just a smooth hook to guide the rope. The amount of tension or "pull" you put on the tail of the rope controls the amount of "pull" that the capstan puts on the tree. You have a fine degree of control here, up to the limit of the winch. If the motor stalls or quits you still have all the holding power of the capstan.


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## no tree to big (Dec 23, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> The jack gets spit out when the tree falls and the notch was just right. You've obviously never tried it.



very obvious how the jack would get kicked out... think physics and just stare a minute and the tree was almost perfectly vertical when the hinge broke yes much better then the start but generally you try to have it leaning a bit in the general direction of the desired fall so no the notch was not just right it was a bit off and your right NO!!! I have never tried that because its just redicuolus to have a floor jack out on a tree job, ok the last job I did I had a floor jack in the back of my pickup but it was because I needed it to change a tire earlier that day...


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## AT sawyer (Dec 23, 2011)

Consider a Griphoist. Pricey new, but you can get them on Ebay for a couple hundred bucks. Unlimited wire rope travel, nearly indestructible, and can straight pull 2000lb. Add blocks to redirect pull or for more power, and the wire rope won't stretch.





View attachment 212968


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## squad143 (Dec 23, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Actually that was perfect...... You've obviously never tried it.



AA, you have seem to have gathered quite a reputation on here. I'm not going to jump in, call you names and such...... But, that was far from perfect. I don't know where you learned your trade, but that face cut was too shallow.

Jacks on trees...... Only heard of them being used on huge trees. Plus, they did not have wheels on them. We're you thinking outside the box? Most likely. Have I ever tried it, No. Never will, not in that configuration. It worked, I'll give you that, but it was far from perfect. 

Eventually, if you push the enevlope long enough, you'll end up with a paper cut. There are alot safer ways to remove that tree. 

No one has ever called 911 because someone did something smart.

Plus, I have to ask. Why would someone drop their saw on the ground like that? (8:56)


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 23, 2011)

I finally gave in and watched the whole video. I could not turn away, like an accident on the other side of the freeway. Wow, I would be truly feel stupid. Hey Doug, around 3:50 or so, did the guy get hit from the swing? Give that lady a hard hat. Dude, you are insane and I hope you do not kill yourself or your groundie. 
Jeff


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## mattfr12 (Dec 23, 2011)

Try that stalpen tree jack surprisingly its really really strong when dropping trunks don't have to set to many ropes anymore. cleared a lot with it and didn't have to take the wedges out of my pocket.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 24, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> I finally gave in and watched the whole video. I could not turn away, like an accident on the other side of the freeway. Wow, I would be truly feel stupid. Hey Doug, around 3:50 or so, did the guy get hit from the swing? Give that lady a hard hat. Dude, you are insane and I hope you do not kill yourself or your groundie.
> Jeff



Me too. Less than 30 seconds in you hear him hit a gutter. Must be nice to be able to not worry about whats under you. I usually try to avoid the fences and landscape. I sure would have liked to see the swing back on those long rides, but they were edited out. AA you sure can make a video tho! Brand new jack from Harbor Freight, those things are worthless. Be careful AA. Although I think you are a disease to my industry, I don't want to hear about you getting hurt or killed, especially after we told ya so. It will be more justification from my insurance company, of why they rape us.


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## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 24, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Yes, that's the exact model I use, I guess 3000# of force is all I've ever needed. The end (9:20) of this video shows me using it along with a floor jack to drop a steeply leaning tree:
> 
> [video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0[/video]
> 
> My bull rope (19,500# tensile) has a spliced eye on the end and I use that to attach the wench, thereby avoiding either prussic or gibbs type device that could damage the rope.


 
Thats the tractor everyone is talking about, thats no tractor,I have real tractors, thats a toy, I would let my daughter play with. I am disappointed, I thought I was going to see some real tree men working. watched some of his other videos, thought this was a Arborist site, not a hacker site. If this guy is allowed to post videos of that type of work, I question the title of this site. Could be dangerous, other people watching them, then going out thinking they know what they are doing and getting killed.
I heard the gutter 2! Had to watch a couple times, but yep he hit it! That there is a home owner with business cards


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 24, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> That there is a home owner with business cards



:hmm3grin2orange:

Now thats funny.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 24, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> Try that stalpen tree jack surprisingly its really really strong when dropping trunks don't have to set to many ropes anymore. cleared a lot with it and didn't have to take the wedges out of my pocket.



I dont know if I am sold on that tree jack. It looks like everything that it is used on is something that I could either push over or wedge over. I would like to see what it would do on a 2' diameter oak leaning hard 180 degrees from where you want it to fall.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Dec 24, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> Thats the tractor everyone is talking about, thats no tractor,I have real tractors, thats a toy, I would let my daughter play with. I am disappointed, I thought I was going to see some real tree men working. watched some of his other videos, thought this was a Arborist site, not a hacker site. If this guy is allowed to post videos of that type of work, I question the title of this site. Could be dangerous, other people watching them, then going out thinking they know what they are doing and getting killed.
> I heard the gutter 2! Had to watch a couple times, but yep he hit it! That there is a home owner with business cards



I knew you would love it. Try and find the video that he is talking about a "DANGEROUS TREE". You, of all the people I know, will appreciate that one the most. That lawn mower is the greatest thing invented since the chainsaw, according to him anyways! Better than a mini, better than a real tractor, better than a skid loader!


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 24, 2011)

U mean this one!

A Very Dangerous Tree - YouTube!

Ha, that tree was a baby! I would have climbed that no problem. I went to his site, looks like he went to yours to get stuff to say, just worded little differently. He really should invest in a another rope, he swings those things way to far with no control. I would have had a guide line on them, but I am just a stupid farmer.

I like this one too, Red Oak Care - YouTube

Was trying to figure out what to do today, wife says I have to stay outa the barn, gunna sit here and watch this moron


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 24, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> A Very Dangerous Tree - YouTube!



All I can say is WOW.


----------



## Tree Raptor (Dec 24, 2011)

I started this thread and want to thank everyone for all of their valuable input, advise, tips, specs and such on 5:1's and prussiks vs friction capture devices (Gibbs and such). I learned ALOT and have accomplished my goal and now can proceed forward.

I also want to thank everyone for their ..... "entertaining" comments :hmm3grin2orange:

and remember... if your not 100% sure of how to do something it is always better to stop, humble yourself, think things out and do what you have to do, even if it means "looking stupid", as it is far better to "look stupid" and be safe than it is to try to "fool everyone" and crash. 

Merry Christmas !::thumbsup::::


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 24, 2011)

Tree Raptor said:


> I started this thread and want to thank everyone for all of their valuable input, advise, tips, specs and such on 5:1's and prussiks vs friction capture devices (Gibbs and such). I learned ALOT and have accomplished my goal and now can proceed forward.
> 
> I also want to thank everyone for their ..... "entertaining" comments :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> ...



Yup, and don't post it until you have figured it out.
Jeff


----------



## tree MDS (Dec 24, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Now thats funny.



Yeah it was! Nice work SG, I like this guy already!! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sgreanbeans (Dec 25, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah it was! Nice work SG, I like this guy already!! :hmm3grin2orange:



He's a good ol boy! He may not be the best spoken, but that guy can do anything! And make it look easy! He calls it as he sees it too, no tact with him! He is supposed to come up here today for Christmas dinner and bring me a mower (top level tree equipped mower:jester We are going to make a vid on proper use of a mower on tree jobs. He is mostly crazy, so dynamite is not outa the question! He has about a case of the stuff, blows up crap on the farm all the time!


----------



## squad143 (Dec 25, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> proper use of a mower on tree jobs.



Something like this????


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 25, 2011)

squad143 said:


> Something like this????



That is awsome. You know that probably is someone trying to trim his shrubs for real, and not a gag. Thats why it said on my dremal tool when i got it. " dont use this as a dentistry drill" you know some dumb #### used it to fix his or his friends tooth.


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 25, 2011)

*For the record ...*

That was a $6k job and the only damage done was the sprinkler head that got ground out while grinding one of the stumps. The sound at :30 sec. into the video was one of the ground guy's lunch box. I was aiming for it. The pool house was 20' away from the closest drop, never in any danger. The tractor provided the pull on the large top sections. Clearing the fence was the goal and they all made it. The logs I swung over the fence were dropped in a neat pile right at the end of their swing, over the fence, and on the customer's property. The fence itself was being replaced so the only worry was keeping it's integrity around the customer's pool at the end of the day. (zoning and all).

Have a merry Xmas all ...

edit: and I love that hedge trimming tractor. Maybe I can get Matt to give my Steiner a lift so I can stump cut from the top down.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 25, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> That was a $6k job



Wow, I should come to pittsburg and do some tree work. I could retire in a couple years.


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 25, 2011)

*It's a unique service I provide ...*



2treeornot2tree said:


> Wow, I should come to pittsburg and do some tree work. I could retire in a couple years.



Two trees @ $3k each is not that unusual for a job with that amount of rigging involved. If I deem a tree "dangerous" it can cost more. In that case there was no access for anything larger than my little tractor, so I didn't have to worry about being underbid by bucket queens or crane operators.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 25, 2011)

I would have humped it all out and still not have charged that much.


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 25, 2011)

*Things are different in Upper St. Clair ...*



2treeornot2tree said:


> I would have humped it all out and still not have charged that much.



I'm in a different market than Lancaster, PA. In your neighborhood I would have found an Amish with a mule to hump it out and only charged $5k.


----------



## tree MDS (Dec 25, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Two trees @ $3k each is not that unusual for a job with that amount of rigging involved. If I deem a tree "dangerous" it can cost more. In that case there was no access for anything larger than my little tractor, so I didn't have to worry about being underbid by bucket queens or crane operators.



Is that what you call "rigging"?? Oh, it's seriously unique alright.. and thank god for that!! Delusional old flame job..

Wow.. first you blaspheme the term "arborist" by associating it with yourself, and now this?? You should stay on the porch with the rest of the 16 year old female poodles.. I vote for an Xmas banning for your... (MDS bites tongue) well.. for you!! Just throwing that out there.


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 25, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Is that what you call "rigging"?? Oh, it's seriously unique alright.. and thank god for that!! Delusional old flame job..
> 
> Wow.. first you blaspheme the term "arborist" by associating it with yourself, and now this?? You should stay on the porch with the rest of the 16 year old female poodles.. I vote for an Xmas banning for your... (MDS bites tongue) well.. for you!! Just throwing that out there.



A man, that dude there is what we call a faker, I ahve seen them come and go, the problem with thses types, they are convinced tht they actually do know thirt head from ther butt, we all who know the truth should pity them, cuase they usally have a way of weeding themselves out. Been watching and reading all yalls stuff. most of you are real tree guys like Beans, some of you are nuttin likeem! and its real funny from a outsider looking in, watching you guys toy with them. I dont reun a tree service but I know what its like to get up there and run a big saw, swing out 3ft dia tops and drop hitchen them will make a man outa ya real quick, some of your picture and vids are pretty dam cool. Aerelist is living ina fatasy world if he can see all the same that i can


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2011)

the Aerialist;3355234 If I deem a tree "dangerous" it can cost more.[/QUOTE said:


> Who are you to 'deem' anything? WTF is deem?
> I think I got it!
> You are a "lovable idiot!'.
> Jeff


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 25, 2011)

So I guess Bobby is the new, official leader of the AS retard colony. 

Bobby, from here you read like the kind of guy I'd unroll like a spool of toilet paper and put to use like one too. Ridiculous. You might pack your chit pretty tough, but you read like elementary school fashion magazines. Listen fudge lugger. Any tool can tote a chain on an engine up to cut some 3 foot wide rounds. Nighty night, ya loud mouth scum bag.


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 25, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Who are you to 'deem' anything? WTF is deem?
> I think I got it!
> You are a "lovable idiot!'.
> Jeff



Jeff, that's you. opcorn:


----------



## sgreanbeans (Dec 26, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> A man, that dude there is what we call a faker, I ahve seen them come and go, the problem with thses types, they are convinced tht they actually do know thirt head from ther butt, we all who know the truth should pity them, cuase they usally have a way of weeding themselves out. Been watching and reading all yalls stuff. most of you are real tree guys like Beans, some of you are nuttin likeem! and its real funny from a outsider looking in, watching you guys toy with them. I dont reun a tree service but I know what its like to get up there and run a big saw, swing out 3ft dia tops and drop hitchen them will make a man outa ya real quick, some of your picture and vids are pretty dam cool. Aerelist is living ina fatasy world if he can see all the same that i can[/QUOTE
> 
> For gods sake man, learn spell check!, check your grammar. He can spell, but has bratwurst sized fingers, so he cant type worth
> a..........
> ...


----------



## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> So I guess Bobby is the new, official leader of the AS retard colony.
> 
> Bobby, from here you read like the kind of guy I'd unroll like a spool of toilet paper and put to use like one too. Ridiculous. You might pack your chit pretty tough, but you read like elementary school fashion magazines. Listen fudge lugger. Any tool can tote a chain on an engine up to cut some 3 foot wide rounds. Nighty night, ya loud mouth scum bag.



Is your mommy aware of how you're using that computer she bought you Fruit Basket?? Lol.. such potty mouth..


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 26, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> So I guess Bobby is the new, official leader of the AS colony.
> 
> Bobby, from here you read like the kind of guy I'd love to be like. You might pack your chit pretty tough, but you read like a fashion magazine. Listen, my hero, Any fool can toot his own horn, but i am the best. I am going to go put on my Nighty:



Sorry, I will do better. But hey, aren't you the guy wanting to know what cell phone app ya need, to know what trees your looking at?


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 26, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Bobby Lee Wayne said:
> 
> 
> > A man, that dude there is what we call a faker, I ahve seen them come and go, the problem with thses types, they are convinced tht they actually do know thirt head from ther butt, we all who know the truth should pity them, cuase they usally have a way of weeding themselves out. Been watching and reading all yalls stuff. most of you are real tree guys like Beans, some of you are nuttin likeem! and its real funny from a outsider looking in, watching you guys toy with them. I dont reun a tree service but I know what its like to get up there and run a big saw, swing out 3ft dia tops and drop hitchen them will make a man outa ya real quick, some of your picture and vids are pretty dam cool. Aerelist is living ina fatasy world if he can see all the same that i can[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> Sorry, I will do better. But hey, aren't you the guy wanting to know what cell phone app ya need, to know what trees your looking at?



What's your point? This better be good.


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Is your mommy aware of how you're using that computer she bought you Fruit Basket?? Lol.. such potty mouth..



OMG, I just cramped my pants. You're so on time with these lines, Mr. :male-fighter2:



:msp_sneaky:


----------



## lone wolf (Dec 26, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> OMG, I just cramped my pants. You're so on time with these lines, Mr. :male-fighter2:
> 
> 
> 
> :msp_sneaky:



You get cramps?That explains it all:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Tree Pig (Dec 26, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> OMG, I just cramped my pants. You're so on time with these lines, Mr. :male-fighter2:
> 
> 
> 
> :msp_sneaky:



Just google searched cramps in the pants and this is what they suggested... Give that a shot FTA.


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

Oops, I cramped my pants! :taped:



:jester:


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2011)

*You don't have it and you are the idiot if you think you do ...*



jefflovstrom said:


> Who are you to 'deem' anything? WTF is deem?
> I think I got it!
> You are a "lovable idiot!'.
> Jeff



See Jeff it's like this: If you are the one going to risk your life in climbing a tree you personally get to "deem" it fit to be climbed. You don't need to be a certified risk assessor to make this judgement call. And anyone who lets some feather merchant chair jockey (_like you_) tell them a tree is safe or not safe to climb from the cab of their pickup is not taking their own life seriously enough.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Dec 26, 2011)

Man!! AA you really are stupid.


----------



## CUCV (Dec 26, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> what pulleys did you buy... I need some and that is like $200 less then buying most others I found... well thats if it fits 5/8 rope that is.



Just do a search on ebay for "double pulley" you will get tons of hits. My setup is only good for 13mm.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> So I guess Bobby is the new, official leader of the AS retard



No, you still got it! Your trophy is in the mail.
Jeff


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> See Jeff it's like this: If you are the one going to risk your life in climbing a tree you personally get to "deem" it fit to be climbed. You don't need to be a certified risk assessor to make this judgement call. And anyone who lets some feather merchant chair jockey (_like you_) tell them a tree is safe or not safe to climb from the cab of their pickup is not taking their own life seriously enough.



Unless you are a select bred follower mule this is true.


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> No, you still got it! Your trophy is in the mail.
> Jeff



Thanks......I guess. :msp_smile:


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> See Jeff it's like this: If you are the one going to risk your life in climbing a tree you personally get to "deem" it fit to be climbed.



So are you 'Deeming ' it unsafe because you are?
A) Scared
B) Not enough knowledge
C) Don't want the client to find out you are a scam artist
D) All of the above

Jeff


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

Jeff, you're fakin' nutso basted in tard juice, my friend. AA's wood was solid rotten and full of stupid ants. 

Clearly we are not anything alike. Are we now?


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> Jeff, you're fakin' nutso basted in tard juice, my friend. AA's wood was solid rotten and full of stupid ants.
> 
> Clearly we are not anything alike. Are we now?



I have no idea what you said, but you are extremely entertaining!
Jeff


----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 26, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> I have no idea what you said, but you are extremely entertaining!
> Jeff



Oh, is that so? 

Well........good night. :msp_bored:


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2011)

LOL, nite man. 
Jeff


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*Be honest Jeff ~ when is the last time you climbed a tree?*



jefflovstrom said:


> So are you 'Deeming ' it unsafe because you are?
> A) Scared
> B) Not enough knowledge
> C) Don't want the client to find out you are a scam artist
> ...



A) Some trees I look at are very scary, the more unease I feel the more I charge.
B) It's the things I don't know (from the ground) about a scary tree that give me the most fear.
C) My clients do think I am an artist: Imperial tree service contractor called an artist
D) Only A & B apply.


----------



## tree MDS (Dec 27, 2011)

Yawn. 

You and your ignorant customers can say whatever they want.. the truth is still the truth and the general consensus of you around here reflects that. Just saying.

Sent from my Droid while smoking a cig, drinking a coffee and hating..


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*Truth is ...*



tree MDS said:


> Yawn.
> 
> You and your ignorant customers can say whatever they want.. the truth is still the truth and the general consensus of you around here reflects that. Just saying.
> 
> Sent from my Droid while smoking a cig, drinking a coffee and hating..



What the collective cretins here think is not a concern to me. That I have operated a tree service for five years without significant injuries or damage especially when my stated secialty is: "difficult and dangerous" trees speaks for itself.

100% of my customers have been highly satisfied with my work and many have posted very favorable reviews of my work and methods. 

Posted with my iPad while smoking a hand rolled cigar, drinking a strong coffee with a generous shot of Bailly's Irish Creame, and loving all of this. Life is good, don't waste any of your short time here making it bad by hating.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> drinking a strong coffee with a generous shot of Bailly's Irish Creame, and loving all of this.



So you go to work drunk, that explains everything.


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*Rain Day in Pittsburgh ...*



sgreanbeans said:


> So you go to work drunk, that explains everything.


 
While I'm sure excessive alcohol consumption does explain some of the bizarre and hateful posts I read here, I'm actually just kicking back today and my morning coffee got the benefit of a bottle of Irish cream left over from the Xmas cheer provided for the holiday.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> While I'm sure excessive alcohol consumption does explain some of the bizarre and hateful posts I read here, I'm actually just kicking back today and my morning coffee got the benefit of a bottle of Irish cream left over from the Xmas cheer provided for the holiday.



Face it Doug you just can't cut the mustard ......:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## treeclimber101 (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> A) Some trees I look at are very scary, the more unease I feel the more I charge.
> B) It's the things I don't know (from the ground) about a scary tree that give me the most fear.
> C) My clients do think I am an artist: Imperial tree service contractor called an artist
> D) Only A & B apply.



tree service contractor called an other tree service 
Date Published: June 24 2010

Arborist Tree Service | FROM PLUTOS OUTTER RINGS.

Jessica Smoothone the hates the view from above since having her her trees trimmed.

"Anal Arborist is a complete wanker !" Smothone says. "Drug [Metcalfe, the owner] and his gangsta nephew got right to work and I was amazed at how fast they spiked the hell outta my oak tree.

"I recommend everyone stay the hell away , because he adult needs supervision ,and because he is not so good at his job. It's just awful to watch. He climbs with a hatchet and makes it look so dangerous , he stunk like MAD DOG 20/20. He is really a tree butcher."


TIPS
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----------



## ForTheArborist (Dec 27, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> Face it Doug you just can't cut the mustard ......:hmm3grin2orange:



What exactly are you deeming? You can't say, can you? You are certified, moron. CM (CERTIFIED MORON)

Now show us whatchya got, turd. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


----------



## treeclimber101 (Dec 27, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> What exactly are you deeming? You can't say, can you? You are certified, moron. CM (CERTIFIED MORON)
> 
> Now show us whatchya got, turd.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk



Listen Liquita or whatever your name is , I don't have to show you #### because you are like the dog #### that is stuck in th treads of my boot , wait scratch that because that #### has actually been up a tree before , you are like the ### that drips off your ###### ### when we hang out , in the smush room .....


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 27, 2011)

*I understand him*

Is that add real? Probably is. Why is it, that some guys don't get it. This AA guy is the biggest idiot I have ever come across. I live in the boonies, so that's saying a lot. I am not sure he understands what you guys do and how you carry yourselves. A lot of time, when dealing with "pros", ya can just tell right away, whether or not they really know what they are doing. He has enough skill to be lucky and enough luck to look skilled. It will catch up, in one way or another. It may be a bad accident or a legal issue, who knows with him, but it will happen. There is nothing wrong with trying new and different techniques, equipment and styles. Bean is changing what I do every time I see him. But there is a way to run them across pros in the field, and that's what he does wrong. He might come up with something that suits him just fine, and that's cool, but then he goes and makes himself look like a total moron by trying to convince all of you that his way is better, when everyone knows that it is not, it may not be a bad way, but def not the best. His skill after watching all his videos is mediocre at best, I would put him at the skill level of a first year power company trimmer. Then to top it off, he has to add outside facts of his very questionable history, as if no one else on earth has done any of the things he claims. Men don't act like that, kids and small minded adults do. Men don't post to show off, they post to share. Men can take constructive criticism, use it and move on, hoping for more. Ignorant people consider it a insult. Not one time have I read where anyone on here said anything other than what you need to do. You just cant read between the lines AA. Sure they talk sh it, that's what they do, if ya paid attention, instead of thinking of the next ridiculous thing to say, you would realize that they all talk sh it, and they all take away knowledge whether they admit it or not. I have, just two other guys arguing over a machine gave me enough info to make a decision on what one I want. They where going at it good, next thread they where agreeing and arguing with someone else! Teaching and learning again. The difference between you and them, simple. They are tree guys,rough and cocky, with good reason, your just a fool , jack of al trades, wont be long, you will be out of the tree business and into something else, you'll add the tree industry to your very long resume of things that you failed at. Beans told me about you, told me about your videos, I didn't believe him, no full grown man acts like that. Its a damn good thing all your paid Angiesl list customer don't read this forum huh!
Outsider looking in.

Now, just so you all know, it took me a long a s s time to type this! I may be redneck, but I no dummy. I swear I heard applause in the back ground.
Bobby Lee out


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 27, 2011)

Tree Work Videos « Tree Service in Pittsburgh PA — Aerial Arborist

Check out widow maker,did ya go back up and fix all the branches ya broke?


----------



## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*You don't know jack Bobbie Lee ...*



Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> ... it took me a long a s s time to type this! I may be redneck, but I no dummy. I swear ...
> Bobby Lee out



Swear all you like Bobbie Lee, but you'll never know me. The "Pros" here are like 6 gallons of s h i t in a 5 gallon bucket. That's the way they carry themselves. I've made you all my playthings, just for the sport of it. The only thing that keeps me going here is swatting you cretins with logic and truth.

If I wanted to show off my stuff I'd have put these on my desk:







1500 year old Mezzo American funerial effigies that remind me of you all. Crocks made of clay.


----------



## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 27, 2011)

You gaff trim jobs, SHUT UP


----------



## treeclimber101 (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Swear all you like Bobbie Lee, but you'll never know me. The "Pros" here are like 6 gallons of s h i t in a 5 gallon bucket. That's the way they carry themselves. I've made you all my playthings, just for the sport of it. The only thing that keeps me going here is swatting you cretins with logic and truth. Woo
> 
> If I wanted to show off my stuff I'd have put these on my desk:
> 
> ...


----------



## Tree Pig (Dec 27, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> Is that add real? Probably is. Why is it, that some guys don't get it. This AA guy is the biggest idiot I have ever come across. I live in the boonies, so that's saying a lot. I am not sure he understands what you guys do and how you carry yourselves. A lot of time, when dealing with "pros", ya can just tell right away, whether or not they really know what they are doing. He has enough skill to be lucky and enough luck to look skilled. It will catch up, in one way or another. It may be a bad accident or a legal issue, who knows with him, but it will happen. There is nothing wrong with trying new and different techniques, equipment and styles. Bean is changing what I do every time I see him. But there is a way to run them across pros in the field, and that's what he does wrong. He might come up with something that suits him just fine, and that's cool, but then he goes and makes himself look like a total moron by trying to convince all of you that his way is better, when everyone knows that it is not, it may not be a bad way, but def not the best. His skill after watching all his videos is mediocre at best, I would put him at the skill level of a first year power company trimmer. Then to top it off, he has to add outside facts of his very questionable history, as if no one else on earth has done any of the things he claims. Men don't act like that, kids and small minded adults do. Men don't post to show off, they post to share. Men can take constructive criticism, use it and move on, hoping for more. Ignorant people consider it a insult. Not one time have I read where anyone on here said anything other than what you need to do. You just cant read between the lines AA. Sure they talk sh it, that's what they do, if ya paid attention, instead of thinking of the next ridiculous thing to say, you would realize that they all talk sh it, and they all take away knowledge whether they admit it or not. I have, just two other guys arguing over a machine gave me enough info to make a decision on what one I want. They where going at it good, next thread they where agreeing and arguing with someone else! Teaching and learning again. The difference between you and them, simple. They are tree guys,rough and cocky, with good reason, your just a fool , jack of al trades, wont be long, you will be out of the tree business and into something else, you'll add the tree industry to your very long resume of things that you failed at. Beans told me about you, told me about your videos, I didn't believe him, no full grown man acts like that. Its a damn good thing all your paid Angiesl list customer don't read this forum huh!
> Outsider looking in.
> 
> Now, just so you all know, it took me a long a s s time to type this! I may be redneck, but I no dummy. I swear I heard applause in the back ground.
> Bobby Lee out



That post is so good and to the point I am speechless

this is for you

[video=youtube;IxAKFlpdcfc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc[/video]


----------



## Tree Pig (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Swear all you like Bobbie Lee, but you'll never know me. The "Pros" here are like 6 gallons of s h i t in a 5 gallon bucket. That's the way they carry themselves. I've made you all my playthings, just for the sport of it. The only thing that keeps me going here is swatting you cretins with logic and truth.
> 
> If I wanted to show off my stuff I'd have put these on my desk:
> 
> ...



Guy seriously you have lost every argument you have had on here, the only one that doesnt realize it is you. So if losing in life is what you call sport and you like your playthings kicking your ass then your in the right spot (if you ask me its a little gay to refer to other men as playthings). You fancy yourself as some type of intellect, but I have bad news in this forum you are out classed. Be thankful for FTA because if it wasnt for him you would be the most ignorant person in here... Good news though its a close race.

oh yeah put them on your desk and take a picture... because sure looks like an internet picture from a museum.


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## pdqdl (Dec 27, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> The setup the guy built in the video is only a 4:1 system. If it was a 5:1 the rope he would be pulling on would be coming from the tree. First off, I wont want to have my pulley setup made out of the rope I am pulling with. If you need to readjust or lower, your screwed. I bought a fiddle block setup from baileys. The pulleys are alum, light weight, and has its own progress capture device. On big trees, I always use a 3 ton comalong with amsteel blue rope.



All of the arguing about this 4:1 or 5:1 can be simplified. Count the legs of rope pulling on the load. If there are five legs, then it is 5:1. It is really quite simple! Assuming that each leg of the pulley system is equally loaded, then all 5 ropes are pulling with the same force that is applied to just one. 

Of course, all of this depends on relatively little friction loss rolling over the pulleys. We speak of 5:1, but it is considerably less once friction is accounted for.

If the tail of the rope being pulled on is going through the stationary anchor point, then it is putting 5:1 mechanical advantage on the anchor point, but it is only delivering 4:1 on the moving load. Why? There are only 4 sections of rope attached to the moving load. The last one is just pulling against the anchor point.


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## ForTheArborist (Dec 27, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Guy seriously you have lost every argument you have had on here, the only one that doesnt realize it is you. So if losing in life is what you call sport and you like your playthings kicking your ass then your in the right spot (if you ask me its a little gay to refer to other men as playthings). You fancy yourself as some type of intellect, but I have bad news in this forum you are out classed. Be thankful for FTA because if it wasnt for him you would be the most ignorant person in here... Good news though its a close race.
> 
> oh yeah put them on your desk and take a picture... because sure looks like an internet picture from a museum.



wow :eek2: profound, StihlO. You never wore a helmet did you?

You lame. Why do you have rank anyway? Wait. Your only an ol' bone head sergeant. Good for you, and pull your head out of your ass. 


[video=youtube;IxAKFlpdcfc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IxAKFlpdcfc[/video]


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## ForTheArborist (Dec 27, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> All of the arguing about this 4:1 or 5:1 can be simplified. Count the legs of rope pulling on the load. If there are five legs, then it is 5:1. It is really quite simple! Assuming that each leg of the pulley system is equally loaded, then all 5 ropes are pulling with the same force that is applied to just one.
> 
> Of course, all of this depends on relatively little friction loss rolling over the pulleys. We speak of 5:1, but it is considerably less once friction is accounted for.
> 
> If the tail of the rope being pulled on is going through the stationary anchor point, then it is putting 5:1 mechanical advantage on the anchor point, but it is only delivering 4:1 on the moving load. Why? There are only 4 sections of rope attached to the moving load. The last one is just pulling against the anchor point.



I'm with you on this and glad you spoke up.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

Does the length of rope between the legs have to be equal?
Jeff


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## Tree Pig (Dec 27, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> wow :eek2: profound, StihlO. You never wore a helmet did you?
> 
> You lame. Why do you have rank anyway? Wait. Your only an ol' bone head sergeant. Good for you, and pull your head out of your ass.
> 
> ...



Honestly tell me the truth.

Are you a Mexican Illegal... Because English is obviously not your native tongue.

I know you wore a helmet though... I have the picks


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## pdqdl (Dec 27, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Does the length of rope between the legs have to be equal?
> Jeff



Don't be silly. 

If I thought you didn't know already, I would give you a long, comprehensive answer. Since that would be a waste of my typing skills, I decline to comment further.


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## ForTheArborist (Dec 27, 2011)

Jeff, you are what 101 calls a turd. I hate to say it. :msp_unsure: otstir: 

and I certainly hate to explain it. :msp_thumbdn:


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> Don't be silly.
> 
> If I thought you didn't know already, I would give you a long, comprehensive answer. Since that would be a waste of my typing skills, I decline to comment further.



But I so enjoy you explaining everything. :msp_tongue:
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> Jeff, you are what 101 calls a turd. I hate to say it. :msp_unsure: otstir:
> 
> and I certainly hate to explain it. :msp_thumbdn:



I call you Ed, and you are too stupid to know that you are stupid. You are however a barrel of laugh's.
Jeff


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*Back on topic for those who care ...*



jefflovstrom said:


> Does the length of rope between the legs have to be equal?
> Jeff



No Jeff, in the case of a fiddle block the "legs" are different because of the stacked pulleys:






You could rig separate pulleys with different rope lengths and even different angles and still get the same multiplication of force.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> No Jeff, in the case of a fiddle block the "legs" are different because of the stacked pulleys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you read the post by PDQDL?
Jeff


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## no tree to big (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> The only thing that keeps me going here is swatting you cretins with *logic and truth*.



I'm still waiting for any logic or truth from you:msp_confused:


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## pdqdl (Dec 27, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Did you read the post by PDQDL?
> Jeff



I suspect he did not.

AA: No, the legs can be at different lengths, but they must all be parallel to the direction of pull. If not parallel to the load, then the applied force is reduced. Vectors, trigonometry, you can look it up if you wish.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*Just thought I'd share ...*



jefflovstrom said:


> Did you read the post by PDQDL?
> Jeff



Yes, he deems you knowledgable about this, but if you are why would you ask? I think you're ignorant, so I thought I would give you knowledge about rigging.


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## pdqdl (Dec 27, 2011)

It's an ongoing ritual. I post something erudite, and Jeff comes along and gives me a friendly poke, just to keep me from getting too pompous.

It's probably good for everybody to get deflated every now and then.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*Suspicions confirmed ...*



pdqdl said:


> I suspect he did not.
> 
> AA: No, the legs can be at different lengths, but they must all be parallel to the direction of pull. If not parallel to the load, then the applied force is reduced. Vectors, trigonometry, you can look it up if you wish.



This is true with regard to the angle over the pulley for the rope, but another pulley set could be at any angle, say attached to another anchor using a block to redirect the tail of the first set and that multiplication would be added to the first. Not a common way of rigging a force multiplier, but useful to answer jeff's question.


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## pdqdl (Dec 27, 2011)

Nice attempt at a recovery, but we were only talking about the legs of a pulley system that has clearly been shown in the video at the start of this thread. Nobody mentioned a redirect; not levers, gears, hydraulics, nor inclined planes, either.

It would be much easier to just admit that you missed the mark on that one.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 27, 2011)

What's amazing is that a person with 5 years of rigging experience is attempting to educate someone with almost 30 yrs. of experience ..... Laughable actually


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## Tree Pig (Dec 27, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> What's amazing is that a person with 5 years of rigging experience is attempting to educate someone with almost 30 yrs. of experience ..... Laughable actually



It appears to me that PDQDL is a smart feller and AA is well you know... The other one... Fart Smeller
(this argument was getting to intelligent I had to drive it back down to the gutter or at least the third grade)


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*True or not true ?*



pdqdl said:


> Nice attempt at a recovery, but we were only talking about the legs of a pulley system that has clearly been shown in the video at the start of this thread. Nobody mentioned a redirect; not levers, gears, hydraulics, nor inclined planes, either.
> 
> It would be much easier to just admit that you missed the mark on that one.



I didn't bother to watch the video. I was talking about possible ways to rig a force multiplier, giving an example of what I meant by "different angles" Let me ask you this with your obvious knowledge of force multipliers, i.e. pulley setups: Am I right or wrong about the setup I described?


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> What's amazing is that a person with 5 years of rigging experience is attempting to educate someone with almost 30 yrs. of experience ..... Laughable actually



Gosh, I hope you are talking about me.
Hey, when they gonna let you pump your own gas?
Jeff


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> What's amazing is that a person with 5 years of rigging experience is attempting to educate someone with almost 30 yrs. of experience ..... Laughable actually



I hold an FAA rating as a master parachute rigger, I passed the written test and the practical examination from senior rigger to master in 1972. This doesn't make me an industrial rigger, a specialist in moving and securing heavy loads, but it does indicate that I know my ropes. It was this knowledge in part that made me think I'd do OK in this trade.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> I didn't bother to watch the video. I was talking about possible ways to rig a force multiplier, giving an example of what I meant by "different angles" Let me ask you this with your obvious knowledge of force multipliers, i.e. pulley setups: Am I right or wrong about the setup I described?



If you were not such a 'know it all', You could have had an open mind so that some real and sane info could grow in your mind and make you come to grips with the fact that you really don't know much at all. Also you are a Fake!
Really Doug? 
Remember, If you leave me now, I will be stuck with FTA!

Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 27, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> I hold an FAA rating as a master parachute rigger, I passed the written test and the practical examination from senior rigger to master in 1972. This doesn't make me an industrial rigger, a specialist in moving and securing heavy loads, but it does indicate that I know my ropes. It was this knowledge in part that made me think I'd do OK in this tra a turd with the FAA!
> 
> Let's give a parade to the FAA!
> Jeff
> :misdoubt:


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2011)

*And a Happy New Year ...*



jefflovstrom said:


> .. you are a Fake! ...



Fake? At what? I've freely and honestly told my story and how I came to be here. That I find many of you (the d i c k clique) reprehensible and not worthy of respect irks many here, and for those non combatants who have to put up with the drivel and vitriol spewed here by the d i c k clique and even myself at times in response, I sincerely apologize.

But see Jeff, when I am attacked I tend to fight back. Coming to this site was like walking into a strange bar and getting sucker punched by the first guy who spoke to you. (and I think you were that first guy Jeff). 

pdqdl is the only poster who seemed to want to post on topic. When I responded, also on topic, the feces flinging started. If that's designed to chase me away, good luck with that. Collectively, you've made this fight with me some kind of personal vendetta, but you know what? I own you all now because anybody with a brain can see from where the feces flow, from the mouths of the d i c k clique.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Fake? At what? I've freely and honestly told my story and how I came to be here. That I find many of you (the d i c k clique) reprehensible and not worthy of respect irks many here, and for those non combatants who have to put up with the drivel and vitriol spewed here by the d i c k clique and even myself at times in response, I sincerely apologize.
> 
> But see Jeff, when I am attacked I tend to fight back. Coming to this site was like walking into a strange bar and getting sucker punched by the first guy who spoke to you. (and I think you were that first guy Jeff).
> 
> pdqdl is the only poster who seemed to want to post on topic. When I responded, also on topic, the feces flinging started. If that's designed to chase me away, good luck with that. Collectively, you've made this fight with me some kind of personal vendetta, but you know what? I own you all now because anybody with a brain can see from where the feces flow, from the mouths of the d i c k clique.



Good-nite Doug, I am tired and have to get up early tomorrow, maybe we can spar when I get home.
Jeff


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## the Aerialist (Dec 28, 2011)

*Sweet dreams Jeff ...*



jefflovstrom said:


> Good-nite Doug, I am tired and have to get up early tomorrow, maybe we can spar when I get home.
> Jeff



I'm still going because I have another day off tomorrow (now they say snow) and I got a nice nap today. Were we sparing? I thought this was a cage fight. Oh well, if you can leave, I guess it isn't a cage fight. Get your rest Jeff, you'll need it for tomorrow.

As to the rest of you, the beatings will continue until morale improves.


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## pdqdl (Dec 28, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> This is true with regard to the angle over the pulley for the rope, but another pulley set could be at any angle, say attached to another anchor using a block to redirect the tail of the first set and that multiplication would be added to the first. Not a common way of rigging a force multiplier, but useful to answer jeff's question.



I can't really agree with your assertion. Several reasons, mostly posited because I feel like typing tonight:

1. Jeff did not ask anything at all about angles, and he was being sarcastic about the length question. Hence, your answer is not useful to answering his question.

2. Either you failed to understand his intention, and posted your remark in error of the situation, or you were just being 
just as much of a wise guy as he was. Trying to take it back now with further debate is not going to be encouraged by me.

3. In the purest interpretation of the scenario you presented above, *NO!* The mechanical advantage of one pulley set tugging upon another is not "added to the first", it is _multiplied_ by the first. Since the original 5:1 pulley system was what was being explained in my post that inspired Jeff's sarcasm, no other configuration of pulleys could accomplish that mechanical advantage. You see, 5 is prime, and you can't get to a prime number by multiplying any set of whole numbers. 

Q.E.D. I cannot agree with your statement.


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## superjunior (Dec 28, 2011)

geez almost 2:00am and you guys still goin at it? well I'm off to work, gotta plow...


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 28, 2011)

Bobby Lee Wayne said:


> Is that add real? Probably is. Why is it, that some guys don't get it. This AA guy is the biggest idiot I have ever come across. I live in the boonies, so that's saying a lot. I am not sure he understands what you guys do and how you carry yourselves. A lot of time, when dealing with "pros", ya can just tell right away, whether or not they really know what they are doing. He has enough skill to be lucky and enough luck to look skilled. It will catch up, in one way or another. It may be a bad accident or a legal issue, who knows with him, but it will happen. There is nothing wrong with trying new and different techniques, equipment and styles. Bean is changing what I do every time I see him. But there is a way to run them across pros in the field, and that's what he does wrong. He might come up with something that suits him just fine, and that's cool, but then he goes and makes himself look like a total moron by trying to convince all of you that his way is better, when everyone knows that it is not, it may not be a bad way, but def not the best. His skill after watching all his videos is mediocre at best, I would put him at the skill level of a first year power company trimmer. Then to top it off, he has to add outside facts of his very questionable history, as if no one else on earth has done any of the things he claims. Men don't act like that, kids and small minded adults do. Men don't post to show off, they post to share. Men can take constructive criticism, use it and move on, hoping for more. Ignorant people consider it a insult. Not one time have I read where anyone on here said anything other than what you need to do. You just cant read between the lines AA. Sure they talk sh it, that's what they do, if ya paid attention, instead of thinking of the next ridiculous thing to say, you would realize that they all talk sh it, and they all take away knowledge whether they admit it or not. I have, just two other guys arguing over a machine gave me enough info to make a decision on what one I want. They where going at it good, next thread they where agreeing and arguing with someone else! Teaching and learning again. The difference between you and them, simple. They are tree guys,rough and cocky, with good reason, your just a fool , jack of al trades, wont be long, you will be out of the tree business and into something else, you'll add the tree industry to your very long resume of things that you failed at. Beans told me about you, told me about your videos, I didn't believe him, no full grown man acts like that. Its a damn good thing all your paid Angiesl list customer don't read this forum huh!
> Outsider looking in.
> 
> Now, just so you all know, it took me a long a s s time to type this! I may be redneck, but I no dummy. I swear I heard applause in the back ground.
> Bobby Lee out


 
Oh MY God, did you really type that? Or did Josey do it! Your words I know, but who typed it! 

There is no one that is more brutally honest than good ol Bobby Lee, good job, I feel like I just watched one of my kids win a medal at a judo tournament, proud :msp_thumbsup:


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## DDM (Dec 31, 2011)

Carry on...


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## Tree Pig (Dec 31, 2011)

*hmm*

Apparently that struck a chord with more then just me. Because that was fast.


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## squad143 (Dec 31, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Apparently that struck a chord with more then just me. Because that was fast.



Blazing fast. Thank God for the "instant notification" on my iPhone or I would have missed it.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. Then again, maybe it does but we just don't see it.

Big brother is watching.............



At least DDM is. . Good for him.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 31, 2011)

*I get to meet another moderator ...*



DDM said:


> Carry on...



Thanks David, that was not meant as a racist slur, only a play on sgreenbeans liking for beans. As to the other part of my now deleted post, you should check to see if sgreenbeans and Bobby Lee Wayne are posting from the same IP address, unless it's OK to create sock puppets here.

Although my cousin Lee is a real person and really suffers from PTSD to the tune of a 100% disability as determined from the shrinks at the VA hospital, maybe I should give him a voice here by creating an account for him, like sgreenbeans has done for his imaginary "cousin", Bubba Lee.


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## squad143 (Dec 31, 2011)

Since I'm Canadian, I've never heard that term before.

Had to look it up.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 31, 2011)

squad143 said:


> Since I'm Canadian, I've never heard that term before.
> 
> Had to look it up.



Ill bet you the old racist uses it all the time and meant it. I have to admit in my utter disgust and shock over such a thoughtless attempt to not only insult another respected AS member but a whole race of people (many of which are doing wonders for the tree care industry :msp_wink I had to report the post. This is not the 60's and 70's anymore AA you can just toss around slang like that anymore. Maybe at them private meetings with you cousin lee and the crack head go to, but not here in public... Honestly I thought his appalling display deserved him a good ban like... FOREVER.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 31, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> ... I have to admit in my utter disgust and shock over such a thoughtless attempt to not only insult another respected AS member but a whole race of people (many of which are doing wonders for the tree care industry :msp_wink ...



Sorry if you or anyone took my contraction of sgreenbeans handle here as a racist slur, that was not my intention, nor do such things have a place here. I speak Spanish and have known and been friends with many people for whom Spanish is their first language.

Having said that, your emoticon after your comment about "doing wonders for the tree care industry" just shows your own racial leanings concerning our brothers from the south.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 31, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Sorry if you or anyone took my contraction of sgreenbeans handle here as a racist slur, that was not my intention, nor do such things have a place here. I speak Spanish and have known and been friends with many people for whom Spanish is their first language.
> 
> Having said that, your emoticon after your comment about "doing wonders for the tree care industry" just shows your own racial leanings concerning our brothers from the south.



There you go making assumptions about my comments... apparently it shows your mindset... how long ago did you shave the short mustache off?


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## the Aerialist (Dec 31, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> There you go making assumptions about my comments... apparently it shows your mindset...



It is your own racist thinking that caused you to to make my contraction of sgreenbeans handle here into something it was not. Nice try at getting me banned for your sins ~ FAIL sucker ...


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## Tree Pig (Dec 31, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> It is your own racist thinking that caused you to to make my contraction of sgreenbeans handle here into something it was not. Nice try at getting me banned for your sins ~ FAIL sucker ...



well Ill keep my fingers crossed for the next time.


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## Bobby Lee Wayne (Dec 31, 2011)

wHAT happened


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## squad143 (Dec 31, 2011)

Well see if the Mods allow this:

AA and Sgreanbeans were continuing their banter and wheather intentional or not, AA called Sgreanbeans a derogatory remark.

It was a form of his AS name and in the context it was used, is considered a racial slur by some.

Given the tone it was used and the meaning of the word, I can understand why the post(s) was delegated.

It's good that the mods are there to keep all of us on the line, should we (even if by accident) cross it.:msp_thumbup:


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## squad143 (Dec 31, 2011)

BTW, 

Happy New Year to you all.:msp_thumbsup:


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## the Aerialist (Dec 31, 2011)

squad143 said:


> ... It's good that the mods are there to keep all of us on the line, should we (even if by accident) cross it.:msp_thumbup:



I'm with you on that and I'm glad a mod stepped in, I was out of line and I apologize to any who may have been offended by my post. It was right to be deleted. I'm going to try to keep my New Year's resolution to more gentlemanly in my posting here.


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 1, 2012)

wow, didnt even see it. Thanks mods, I will say this. No matter what he says to me, I don't care, it has no weight or merit. Maybe I should tone it down, should I? I do it because of the Marine thing, cant let that go. Have lost friends, good friends. I wont let someone tarnish the rep of the Marine Corps by falsely claiming the title, so it is a battle that I run straight at. He is a liar and a fraud. You will notice that I do not bash anybody else, just him. He brings it on himself. I will give him the opportunity again, SHOW US YOUR DD214, and I will leave it. Don't and I will continue to call you out for what you are, if that gets me banned, defending the honor of the fallen, then so be it.

Oh and AA, going to load pics of me and Bobby together yesterday for New Years, just for you.


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