# question for you mechanical loggers



## mainelogger1995 (Apr 8, 2013)

I found a pretty decent timbco 425 for sale. Are these good machines? the one I found has a barsaw instead of a hotsaw, are the 5.9 cummins' that are in them pretty good on fuel?


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## palogger390 (Apr 8, 2013)

Depends on what year Timbco 425. We had a 1995 425 B that had 35,000 hours on it and it was just as reliable as our 2006 445EXL with 6000 hrs. 
I would be leery about a 5.9 cummins in a timbco. They are a good skidder motor but its little underpowered for a tracked buncher. I think you will burn just as much fuel with the 5.9 as you would with an 8.3 because will have to run it a lot harder to do the same work.


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## 1270d (Apr 8, 2013)

We run a 425 with a Deere 6.8 liter. Bar saw head. Using 80 or so gallons a day depending on terrai and timber. Maybe 15 or 20000 hrs on it.


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## mainelogger1995 (Apr 8, 2013)

yeah the one i found is a 1999 425 and i would like to run it with a couple of cable skidders so it wouldnt be running all day steady.


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## 1270d (Apr 8, 2013)

Thinning or clear cutting? Pulling to a slasher?


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## mainelogger1995 (Apr 8, 2013)

both most likely we do small clearings like for houselots and things like that but do mostly selective harvesting and no slasher yet someday though!


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## mainelogger1995 (Apr 8, 2013)

I figured Id be able to or my dad cut with the buncher, limb by hand and then skid to the landing and cut up pulp,logs etc by hand as well. he worked for a crew a long time ago that cut with a buncher and had a c6 and 518 cable machines pulling off it and said they did alrite limbing and bucking by hand.


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## 1270d (Apr 8, 2013)

Our crew bunches, hand limbs/tops then one 648 to the slasher. In good wood they can do 6 or 7 loads a day. One guy limbs it all. He's fast. Real fast.

Could you pick up an older hood or Prentice slasher reasonable? Sure be nicer than hand bucking.


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## mainelogger1995 (Apr 8, 2013)

o wow thats not bad for production and ya im sure there is something out there, just gonna have to keep looking


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## Oldtimer (Apr 9, 2013)

You have the same plan that my brother and I have. Timbco to bunch, hand limb it, and 648D grapple to the landing..then buck by hand.
The Timbco he's looking at is a hot saw, which I think would be better in the long run.
Bunch for a few hours at the end of the day, then hit it fresh in the am to limb.


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## mainelogger1995 (Apr 9, 2013)

o nice oldtimer that sounds like it will work out pretty good


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## palogger (Apr 9, 2013)

Hot saws are nice for wood, alot faster, but if cutting mostly logs a barsaw is the way to go.

Did the whole cut and bunch with a timbco 425c had the cummins in it, wasnt to bad. limbed and bucked by hand and grapple skidder to the landing. decent production


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## Oldtimer (Apr 9, 2013)

palogger said:


> Hot saws are nice for wood, alot faster, but if cutting mostly logs a barsaw is the way to go.



Why so? The ability to use the head to pre-buck? Less damage?


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## Cletuspsc (Apr 11, 2013)

If I were you I would deffantly buy a slasher before a buncher. I always felt limbing, bucking and sorting were the most time consuming aspects of logging. 2 skidders cutting their own hitches can keep my hood fed all day as long as the skid isnt silly long. We run a cable and a grapple and only delimb the stuff over about 18" in the woods the rest goes threw a pull threw delimber. when we cut with buncher we try to keep it at least a day ahead of the skidders. the grapple pulls the bunched wood and the cable machine hand cuts the stuff that the buncher couldnt get to or was too big or super nice quality 

with the Hot saw vs bars saw just look at the wood your going to mostly cut. pulp/crap hot saw, saw logs /veneer bar saw. bar saws are slow but better at breaking down the tops and cleaning up some of the bigger limbs.


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## mainelogger1995 (Apr 11, 2013)

ya thats why i like the barsaw cause we cut just about every thing and the saw isnt in the way like a hotsaw so we could even pile wood up with it if needed


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## Oldtimer (Apr 11, 2013)

Well, I figure it like this:

It takes me a long time to cut a hitch on most lots due to it being so thick...add to that the fact that I don't use wedges, I just drop them where they want to go- with a little english on the back cut.
So, the woods takes hell..damage to trees I would rather not touch, gotta cut everything to get the skidder bak to the tree you want- no winch. And all that time pulling trees to the trail and building a hitch. (Thinning jobs, no such thing as a clear cut)

Also, I leave a lot of wood on most lots because I don't want to cut / damage nice young growing timber...and I don't want to mess with trees leaning over nice stone walls, towards brooks or other such no-touch things...I figure I could cut an average of 5 loads more on most 40 acre lots with a buncher. And I figure it would increase production by 3x at least.

I originally did want a LS-delimber first, but it's not going to save as much time for me as a buncher will, nor increase the total load count. And time is money.

We will get a nice loader slasher with a delimber after I pay off the skidder- 3 years.


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## palogger (Apr 12, 2013)

reason on the barsaw over the hotsaw for logs i see is that the hotsaw can tear the ends up, more so than the bar saw. we had a 33" barsaw


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## Oldtimer (Apr 12, 2013)

I can see the barsaw head has some distinct advantages.

It's far lighter.

It builds way less hydraulic heat.

It grabs the tree before cutting it, more control.

Cheaper to replace a chain than teeth, quicker too.

Can press it into service as a log loader in a pinch.

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But how do they do when trying to cut several smaller trees in a single pass? Meaning, do they have any trouble bunching multiple stems? I can see the chain getting knocked off pretty easy.

And they use bar oil. That stuff is expensive enough to buy just for chainsaws.

No butt-plate..I wonder if the arms can hold a big frozen hardwood without the tree slipping through?


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## 1270d (Apr 12, 2013)

Bar saw works great for pulling stumps


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## twochains (Apr 12, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> I can see the barsaw head has some distinct advantages.
> 
> It's far lighter.
> 
> ...



There are a few things else good about a dangle bar saw head...

they can cut a bigger tree in one pass than a Hydra axe (38 in bar vs. 28 in throat on hydra axe)
they can skid logs in a pinch
they can butt off rot
you can use a mix of old motor oil and bar oil
the chains can be sharpened with a 7/32 file

The Bell feller buncher can hold frozen timber just fine w/o a butt plate, however the Hydra ax can walk off with anything seemingly for ever and go further distance with large trees resting on the butt plate

You were questioning multiple grabs...from what I have seen, it doesn't work so great, you can bend the crap out of your bar and burn the drive links right off your chain. Doubles can even be tricky if you are too close to the fork.

disclaimer...I am in on this topic only because I have worked around both a Hydra Ax and a Bell feller buncher. I have only operated a Bell 3 wheeler for limited hours but I like it more than the 4 wheeled Hydra ax. The crew I am with now has a Hydra ax, it doesn't get used much...but when it does, and I am cutting and that thing get anywhere close to me...I fricken run! That thing scares the crap out of me! That whirling sound just makes my skin crawl! I don't like that machine at all.


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## Oldtimer (Apr 12, 2013)

A dangle head is almost useless for my application. I'd have to have a fixed head, sometimes called a "controlled" head.





Like I said, if this style in the picture can not gather several stems (or a couple dozen small saplings) before dumping....it too is no good for my application.


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## 1270d (Apr 12, 2013)

You can put an accumulater arm on this bar saw heads for smaller clumpy timber.


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## Oldtimer (Apr 13, 2013)

1270d said:


> You can put an accumulater arm on this bar saw heads for smaller clumpy timber.



It doesn't play hell with the saw? I can imagine it doing that.


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## 1270d (Apr 13, 2013)

We took our accumulater off. You can cut doubles pretty easy as well as smaller clumps. The head has amazing amount of grip. Tension against the lean a bit with the head and the cut opens up as you go. Sometimes its necessary to cut with the saw without grabbing the tree, then catch the stem as it falls.

Or simply grab the stem you want from the clump and rip it out by the roots. The root structure s
Is usually only on one side and they come pretty easy.

Plan on bending some bars, it comes with the territory


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