# The hard-won fruits of my labor...



## Brmorgan (Jul 31, 2008)

Been on holidays this week, so I've been putting the extra time to good use. The old deck on the back of my house had a bunch of rotten top boards, so I ripped it off two or three years ago. I've had the boards for the deck top for almost two years now. They're 2X6X104-5/8" Douglas Fir studs that I got from the mill I work at. However since I was a graderman at the time I pulled all #1 or better for myself. We only sell stud so no matter how good the board is that's all it's worth there, so I made off with about 3/4 of a sling of #1 boards for the employee price of stud. 
I picked up the Alaskan mill and saws last year, along with the quad. I was going try to do it last fall but ended up trimming three fingers back on the jointer in September so I was out of commission the rest of the year. I did manage to cut a few pines up for my aunt 6 weeks later though! Anywho I finally got started cutting most of the beams about 2 weeks ago. I back up to public land, and there's a group of at least a dozen dead firs between 18-30" dia. less than a thousand feet off the back of my property. My neighbor wanted to share it for firewood, but I made a deal with him - I get first dibs on the bottom 50 feet or so to make lumber, and he can follow me around and clean up the tops if he wants, but I'll be taking some to burn too.






There's the supplies and all the toys. It's a 20X16 foot deck. I just cut the 4X10X20' beam across the front today, along with the 4" cant on the pine round and the 3" one next to it on the ground. All visible pieces came from the bottom 50 feet of two trees. I can still get a 10-foot 8-inch cant from one and at least 25 feet of the same from the second.





That's two 3X6X10' beams bolted to the house. One 3X8X16' beam has already been used to square and level the outside corner of the deck. 7 others are stacked in front. Quite a mess.





Turns out I needed one more 3X8 beam than I had cut, so that will come out of the 3" slab lying on the ground. The slab up on the pine block is 4" and I can get almost 14" width out of it. Poker straight too. I got the 4X4 on top of it from the waste piece off the 4X10 face beam cut. I can still get two 2X4s from what's left.





This pic looks screwy because of the wide-angle lens, but I guarantee it's square and level! I managed to get all the 3X8s cut to length, jointed, and placed today. Except the one I didn't think I needed. It'll be a fast cut tomorrow though. I cut out a lap joint on the house end of each one so that they sit on top of the beam, along with the beam hanger brackets on both ends. I'll take a closer pic tomorrow.





Well, after 3 days it's starting to look like a deck! There will also be a walkway along the side of the house where it leaves the photo on the right. I have a sliding doorway in my bedroom at the far corner on that wall, and right now it leads into about 5 feet of oblivion! This walkway will be just above the dryer vent above the shovel handle. There will be stairs down at the corner there. As for steps off the deck, I was thinking of a big corner set that goes off both sides, either round or square. But I was also thinking that with my supply of D Fir, I can get lots enough wood to build a totally surrounding staircase. But it might be a bit too high for that to look good. I guess I can start with the corner and expand if I want to. I will also be building a garden toolshed addition and firewood storage between the end of the deck and the window at the left edge. Oh, and I do have a beautiful fir window door to replace that ratty old one with. But I might put in a double sliding or french set instead as that's the kitchen and dining area thru that door.

I really like how it's turning out. The only other deck I've ever built was a 6X6 entry deck at the other door, so I'm pretty much winging it on this one with a bit of help from my old man as he has time. I have a bunch more posts to install and a lot of work to put the top down, so I'll take more pics over the next few days as it progresses. I'm going to skim all the top boards in the planer, and then put a 1/2" roundover on the edges with the router, so that's gonna take some hard work and time. But there's something so satisfying seeing something constructive take place that I've built literally entirely with my bare hands. Not to mention at a fraction of the cost. I've gone through less than one 5-gallon ($35) can for the saws, and maybe a half tank in the quad, so maybe $50 total at the most. I haven't checked what 9 3X8 beams 16" long are worth, not to mention a 20" 4X10, but I can imagine a few hundred.


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## deeker (Jul 31, 2008)

Great job and great pics/story!!!! opcorn: opcorn: Always want more!

Kevin


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## dbol (Jul 31, 2008)

very nice looking deck. Is all your decking going to have the bark edge or all you going to rip it down to a square edge.


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 31, 2008)

Wat a wast of good lumber ti wont last long tom trees


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## olyman (Jul 31, 2008)

where you have the stringers attached to the house plate--use joist hangers---the small overhang lip is where that board is going to want to break off--or crack the boards lengthwise--


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## irishcountry (Jul 31, 2008)

Very nice! Like it alot!!


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## dustytools (Jul 31, 2008)

Nice job!


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## Brmorgan (Jul 31, 2008)

dbol said:


> very nice looking deck. Is all your decking going to have the bark edge or all you going to rip it down to a square edge.



If you mean the top boards, they're all squared already, I just want to plane a bit off to even out any irregularities and swollen knots resulting from them being stored and tarped for almost 2 years.



tomtrees58 said:


> Wat a wast of good lumber ti wont last long tom trees



Ummm... Cedar might weather better but it's much softer and doesn't stand up to traffic as well. And Redwood would outlast D. Fir but I don't have access to that stuff... And the previous fir deck had lasted almost 25 years according to my neighbor and didn't appear to have ever been stained or protected. I'm not making that mistake.



olyman said:


> where you have the stringers attached to the house plate--use joist hangers---the small overhang lip is where that board is going to want to break off--or crack the boards lengthwise--



Yup, I have joist hangers at both ends and lots of lag bolts too. Speaking of which I have to head into town right now to pick up a bunch more.


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## MJR (Jul 31, 2008)

Maybe some flashing under the house boards? Your deck will look massive when down, hell it does now. Very cool.


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## woodshop (Jul 31, 2008)

Very nice deck start there... and regardless of what some others might say, that wood will be fine. Will it outlast redwood? No... but who has cash for redwood? I like the fact that you used what you had, and the price was right


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## RPM (Jul 31, 2008)

Some 'big deck' humour if you haven't seen already.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ7Ue5emo6I


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## oldsaw (Jul 31, 2008)

Gonna be nice. Keep us updated. Nice to use your own wood, isn't it.

Mark


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## Brmorgan (Jul 31, 2008)

Here's a closer pic of one of the beam joints.





I got that last beam cut and installed along with the other two posts along the front edge. I started running the decking boards through the planer but got rained out after doing about 30. I might end up having to do another pass as a couple still have some small saw marks from edger saws that weren't perfectly lined up. After that I have to rout the edges and then it's time to screw them down. Hopefully I don't get too wet tomorrow though it is supposed to rain a bit.

Also, anybody have and suggestions for a really good clear sealant to put on the beams before I put the top down? I don't really want to color the wood much. I think Douglas Fir is one of the most beautiful softwoods as it is.


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## woodshop (Jul 31, 2008)

Brmorgan said:


> Also, anybody have and suggestions for a really good clear sealant to put on the beams before I put the top down? I don't really want to color the wood much. I think Douglas Fir is one of the most beautiful softwoods as it is.


I would put on something like Woodlife, a clear wood preservative that will keep it from mold and mildew. There are many variations out there of that stuff. Some are water based, some oil. The water based don't tend to color the wood as much as the oil based versions. Personally though, I happen to like doug fir with an oil finish, it darkens it a little and brings out the grain. Great looking tight joint there... you do nice work.


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## clearance (Jul 31, 2008)

Looks good BR, nice. All I can say is do not use a sealant, use stain. And those joist hangers need to be nailed down good. I was taught to toe nail five 31/4" common nails (with 2x10 joists) through the joist to the beam first, then put on the hanger with more nails.


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## artie__bc (Jul 31, 2008)

If you use oil base finish on fir it turns orange....


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## Brmorgan (Aug 1, 2008)

woodshop said:


> I would put on something like Woodlife, a clear wood preservative that will keep it from mold and mildew. There are many variations out there of that stuff. Some are water based, some oil. The water based don't tend to color the wood as much as the oil based versions. Personally though, I happen to like doug fir with an oil finish, it darkens it a little and brings out the grain. Great looking tight joint there... you do nice work.



Thanks for the kind words. Dad always taught me that if something's worth doing once, it's worth doing right so you don't have to do it again. Perhaps that's why we didn't always get along the best when I lived at home.:monkey: Our ideas of "right" don't always line up. At any rate, I cut those notches by hand with a regular ol' handsaw. It did raise some suspicion with my neighbor though, as he's been watching me cut all this wood with my bevy of chainsaws, and then all of a sudden I decide to whip out the elbow grease and do something the hard way. I just don't trust a chainsaw to make the cuts accurately enough (blasphemy?!?). Maybe the XL-2 but it's not running right now (project for tomorrow if it rains...)

As for the protectant, I did find a gallon can of Thompson's Water Seal in the basement. It's also the clear stuff so it won't color the wood other than make it appear wet. I'm not sure off-hand whether it's an oil base or not. I'm inclined to say no. It does say that it'll cause water to bead off the wood though, which is basically what I want. I don't know how effective it'll be on the rough surface of the beams. I'll look into that Woodlife stuff tomorrow. I've never seen it before so maybe it's not available in Canada, but I should be able to find out.



clearance said:


> Looks good BR, nice. All I can say is do not use a sealant, use stain. And those joist hangers need to be nailed down good. I was taught to toe nail five 31/4" common nails (with 2x10 joists) through the joist to the beam first, then put on the hanger with more nails.



I'm not arguing here because I really don't know, but is there a good reason to not use sealant? Keep in mind that this is not for the top decking boards, but for the beam structure. I just want to seal them up so that any water that gets in between a deck board and a beam will not cause rot. That was the main problem with the previous deck - the joists were rotting out while most of the top was still serviceable though badly weathered. I'm not sure yet whether I'll end up staining the top or not. I stained the other entryway deck 2 years ago and it's already mostly weathered away, and the deck boards are going gray. Time to bust out the belt sander and resurface I guess. I'll be trying something different this time.

Also... I hate nails. After the difficulty of ripping the old one apart I'm building this one so that if I have to replace a piece it will be (relatively) easy. It's all lag bolts and coated deck screws. I will be putting a 3"-4" screw through each of the nailing holes in the brackets, which will have the same effect as toe-nailing the beam in.

Here's to praying against the forecast for a nice day tomorrow...:help: Especially for Saturday. Dad and I were going to take the quads into the mountains to a spot I've been wanting to go for years.(In the middle of the pic here.) If you have Google Earth go to Lat. 52°18'49.18"N, Long. 120°37'19.11"W, turn to view towards the south, and pan the view down to near ground level. It was a mining camp well over a hundred years ago. It's a beautiful area. I really want to try to get to the next bowl over with the two lakes though. Bah, I'm rambling again...


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## clearance (Aug 1, 2008)

My buddy painted his deck railings with that stuff, Thompsons Water seal, it flaked off in bits after only a year or so. A real pita to clean off. With stain, you just stain it again. You could put flashing on the beams as well, and caulk it where the planks meet just before you fasten them. Maybe the seal you have will hold up well without direct sun, paint it on there a few coats then.


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## Zodiac45 (Aug 1, 2008)

Excellent work BR.

It's a great feeling too use you're own stuff on your home. I recently did my front porch. I actually got too use a tree from my yard (Larch) for a 6x6 beam I needed. Looks pretty stout too. I also (like you) used large decking screws instead of nails.


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## woodshop (Aug 1, 2008)

Brmorgan said:


> URL="http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=52.313516,-120.6213&spn=0.025816,0.055704&z=14"](In the middle of the pic here.)[/URL] ...



...I want to go along...


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## Brmorgan (Aug 2, 2008)

*A few more pics*

It only rained until about noon today and then got nice and sunny for most of the afternoon, so I was still able to get quite a bit done. I'm not much use before noon anyway unless I'm getting paid. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75463&stc=1&d=1217653108[/IMG
I finished planing decking planks first thing today. Maybe I'll link this thread over to the one which was inquiring about small planers. For a cheap planer, I've been pretty impressed with this Delta. Also I planed all that and only got one tiny nick in the blades. Ended up having to take 3/32 - 1/8" off of them. Here I've started routing the 1/2" roundovers. Barely visible halfway down the deck is the #6 handplane I used to clean up any milling irregularities on the edges so that the router didn't gouge. Didn't feel like hauling my jointer out of the basement, or hauling the boards to it and back.

[IMG]http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75464&stc=1&d=1217653108
Filled four 45-gallon bags with planer shavings today! The barrel's half full too. My neighbor wants a bag or two for firestarter.






That's most of the deck boards, good side up. The rest are in photo #1 on the deck.





A better view of some finished, ready to use deck boards.





A closer view of the grain. I love this stuff. I put the heart side up on all except 2 boards to maximize wear durability. They were all cut from trees under 12" diameter and mostly come from side slabs at the sawmill, so they're pretty much all flatsawn as you can see in the 3rd pic above. I took care to not keep very many with pith wood, and after sitting 2 years there's very little warp.

Woodshop - if you can make it out here, you're welcome to come along! Though it's looking like tomorrow might be a no-go. Lots of summer left.


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## buzz sawyer (Aug 2, 2008)

That's really nice looking wood. I heard about putting a strip of heavy roof underlayment (30 lb.?) on the tops of the joists to keep water from sitting on the top.


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## Brmorgan (Aug 5, 2008)

Almost there! Got a little over 1/3 of the deck boards installed on Sunday/Monday. It got too damn hot after a while working in that corner yesterday - the afternoon sun just beats in there, and there was no breeze. So I called 'er quits and did some saw maintenance in the shade for the rest of the afternoon.





I HOPE I have enough boards to do the top. Unfortunately due to the way the beams line up I'm losing the better part of two feet off most of the boards. If they were actual 9' at 108" I'd be fine, but they're 104-5/8 studs so they ended up less than two inches short of making it to the next beam. I want to build some fir shelving inside the house though, so the shorts will get used at any rate. Of course I can always just mill more boards for the top, but I'm worried about them not being kiln-dried, unlike the ones I've been using. The building suppliers around here don't generally stock much D. Fir dimension lumber as it's hard as rocks when dry and a pain in the neck to use for framing. My nailgun just bounces off it if I hit a knot and leaves the nail half out.


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## buzz sawyer (Aug 5, 2008)

Brmorgan said:


> Almost there! Got a little over 1/3 of the deck boards installed on Sunday/Monday. It got too damn hot after a while working in that corner yesterday - the afternoon sun just beats in there, and there was no breeze. So I called 'er quits and did some saw maintenance in the shade for the rest of the afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it too late to install in an extra joist so you can use the whole board?


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## FJH (Aug 6, 2008)

clearance said:


> Looks good BR, nice. All I can say is do not use a sealant, use stain. And those joist hangers need to be nailed down good. I was taught to toe nail five 31/4" common nails (with 2x10 joists) through the joist to the beam first, then put on the hanger with more nails.



I personally would have oiled every spec of the wood before assembly!If your in a damp climate the wood will only last 10 to 15 years exposed to dampness!


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## Brmorgan (Aug 6, 2008)

It would probably be too hard to install any more joists without ripping up the boards I've put down, and I would have to do at least two, maybe three more to really help. The joists have been treated with oil-based wood sealant. This certainly isn't what I would call a damp climate (most of the time, this year has been a bit more rainy than normal). We get more sunny days than almost anywhere in Canada - today it was 35°C here. I think that's something like 97°F. What causes the worst damage to decks around here is snow piles melting on them in the spring, or putting salt and sand on them in the winter to get rid of ice.


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## bc logger (Aug 7, 2008)

anouther thing that would help durabillaty of the deck would br gutters, just a thought a man does his own thing. as for a treatment a bud of mine built a fir deck and used spar varnish marine grade. in bc where we are snow up too 2-3 feet sit on it nov-mar the deeck is 4 yrs old and still in good shape


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## Brmorgan (Aug 8, 2008)

bc logger said:


> anouther thing that would help durabillaty of the deck would br gutters, just a thought a man does his own thing. as for a treatment a bud of mine built a fir deck and used spar varnish marine grade. in bc where we are snow up too 2-3 feet sit on it nov-mar the deeck is 4 yrs old and still in good shape



Yep I'll be putting up eaves troughing soon. I'll look into that spar varnish. I assume it's for sailboats? You guys are a bit wetter over in Clearwater than I am here. I'll probably keep the deck shoveled off during the winter.


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 11, 2008)

Brmorgan said:


> Yep I'll be putting up eaves troughing soon. I'll look into that spar varnish. I assume it's for sailboats? You guys are a bit wetter over in Clearwater than I am here. I'll probably keep the deck shoveled off during the winter.



I've used Natural Deck Oil and liked the way it lasted. It is also easy to recoat later on. You can get it at Rona and other places.

I like to put roofing tar on top of my joists before I lay the deck boards. When I have removed old decks, I found that most rot occured where the deck boards sat against the joists. Moisture stayed there creating a perfect environment for fungus. Therefore, the tar prevents the wood to wood contact keeping the moisture out.

Bill's Puddle has a dry climate unless you go out towards Horsefly Lake, so I wouldn't worry about the longevity of the boards. It will also help if air can circulate under the deck keeping the humidity lower.


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## clearance (Aug 11, 2008)

BC WetCoast said:


> I've used Natural Deck Oil and liked the way it lasted. It is also easy to recoat later on. You can get it at Rona and other places.
> 
> I like to put roofing tar on top of my joists before I lay the deck boards. When I have removed old decks, I found that most rot occured where the deck boards sat against the joists. Moisture stayed there creating a perfect environment for fungus. Therefore, the tar prevents the wood to wood contact keeping the moisture out.



That is a good idea.


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## Zodiac45 (Aug 11, 2008)

FJH said:


> I personally would have oiled every spec of the wood before assembly!If your in a damp climate the wood will only last 10 to 15 years exposed to dampness!



I think he'll be ok but it's defo something too consider. In rebuilding a set of steps I noticed that only the tops and stuff in sight were ever treated. In the rebuild, I used mildew resistent (Zinzer or Kilz) undercoat and then painted (topcoated) everything on all sides first and then assembled the steps. The old ones lasted 18yrs. I'm hoping these will outlast me


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## Brmorgan (Oct 4, 2008)

*Getting close!*

Been a long time since an update on this one, but between the weather and other projects and just the summer in general, I haven't had a lot of time to work on the deck. But I finally got the last board down on the deck a couple weeks ago. I was going to leave the walkway to the bedroom doors as a project for next spring, as I didn't think I had the wood for the top and the weather was rapidly declining. But, the last two weeks have been absolutely incredible, mostly sunny and in the mid to high 80s F (up to 30 C), so I decided to do my best to get it done. And I found a just enough fir 2X6 in the back of the shop that I'd forgotten about, so milling boards for the top was unnecessary.





The walkway is just over 48" wide to the outside edge of the front beam. The top boards are just laying there for now, I only had time to get them cut and finished today. I think I ended up being ONE PIECE SHORT! Though, I might end up needing an odd size, so maybe a 2X4 would work. But I do have some rough 2X stock out at dad's place in case I need one more 6".






Don't panic, that front 2X6 isn't holding the whole works on! There is a proper hanger assembly on the inside of the 4X4 post. I did manage to get the first 3 boards installed. This was so much easier than the longer deck boards. Warping should be pretty much a non-issue, where it was sometimes difficult to maintain even spacing on the deck. I decided to put a 1.5" X 1.5" bead on the outside edge to hide some pieces that had some splits or edgewane on the bottom.





Yeah, the yard's still a friggin' mess, but it's better than it was. Anyone need some nice dry planer shavings for firestarter? Can't beat it. So far I've got about 200 gallons of them not counting what's on the ground there (6 45-gal garbage bags full). I still have to do a cleaner treatment on the deck after walking all over it while building, and then do a sealer treatment. I'm leaning towards a light oil, I've tested some on scrap pieces and I was happy enough with it to treat the whole frame of the walkway with it.





I'm going to cut some 4X10 or 4X12s to use for stair stringers to tie the two together, and I also want to build steps off the end of the walkway to the right, and off the left corner of the deck, probably a 4' or 6' wraparound. I'm leaning towards using a 4X12 at least for the stringers that tie the two together, because I'd like to notch the ends such that the stringer will sit ON the deck and walkway, straight over top of the posts to relieve the weight a bit. But I'd still like the bottom of the face beams to be a continuous line from beam, thru stringer, to beam. My cousin worked in a stair factory for 4 years and is coming up for Thanksgiving (next weekend, not American I-Just-Can't-Wait-For-Christmas Thanksgiving  ) and he said he'd give me a hand if he has time.

Overall I'm really happy with how it's turned out. The deck is nice and solid, doesn't shake if you walk on it. If you jump hard on it though, it's like a springboard because it flexes ever so slightly but snaps back really hard. I don't see myself doing that apart from testing though. It's not perfect, and there are a few boards I'm going to replace next year as I get better ones milled, but it's a helluva lot better than what was there when I bought the place. Now it's just missing a hot tub on, in, or beside the deck somewhere. That small window above the left end of the walkway is a sauna, and if I ever got a hot tub I'd make an external doorway to it.


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## woodshop (Oct 4, 2008)

Very nice job, thanks for all the detail. Always good to see other peoples projects if only because it makes me want to dig more into some that I have on the back burner. I'm curious, did you plan ahead so those steps from the walkway to the main deck have walkable height and spacing? I know, you adjust the rise and width of step to fit the space, but I built a set of steps in my back shed years ago, and miscalculated... the top step is 3 inches less in height than all the others. No big deal, but every time I go up those steps I am forced to think about my mistake. From the looks of the rest of your deck though, you have that covered. 

Keep us updated as you complete this.


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## Ivan H. (Oct 7, 2008)

tomtrees58 said:


> Wat a wast of good lumber ti wont last long tom trees


 That Doug Fir will last a lifetime. The only better soft wood is Redwood,and I imagine it's pretty expensive in Canada.


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## Ivan H. (Oct 7, 2008)

That deck looks beautiful I love Douglas Fir.


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## irishcountry (Oct 7, 2008)

Hey man you did an excellent job looks great it is great to see some hard earned wood get put to such a rewarding job like that! I think I looked at that same planer (delta) at Lowes recently you must have put it through its paces on this project how did it do?? Thanks for the pics and info appreciate it irishcountry


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## Brmorgan (Oct 8, 2008)

irishcountry said:


> Hey man you did an excellent job looks great it is great to see some hard earned wood get put to such a rewarding job like that! I think I looked at that same planer (delta) at Lowes recently you must have put it through its paces on this project how did it do?? Thanks for the pics and info appreciate it irishcountry



Thanks. For what I ended up paying for the planer (< $100 new after rebates) it's done an excellent job. I definitely did put it through its paces on this job - I filled six and a half 45-gallon garbage bags of shavings. I've also planed a LOT of 1X3 hemlock and quite a bit of birch as well, all on the original set of knives. The only thing I don't like about it is that the knives are so small - MAYBE 1/2" wide and less than 1/8" thick - that they can't hold up to very much resharpening. The only saving grace is that they're two-sided, which I would expect for what new ones cost (just under $50 here). It is prone to tearout on wood that's a bit damp or has some grain deviation, but that can mostly be corrected by taking very light skimming passes. And it isn't the greatest for end snipe, but I have yet to use a single-feedroll portable planer that doesn't have that problem. I'd like to have a dual- or variable-speed feed, dust collector hookup, and at least a three-knife cutterhead, but those are luxuries for the amount of work I do with it right now. I am looking at getting a DeWalt 15" with those features in the near future though, depending on how the economy and my job security turn out in the next little while. Not looking too good right now.


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## irishcountry (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks for the input. Hang in there seems like its getting tough for everyone I know Mi. is not in the greatest shape with all the Auto industry leaving!! Hang in there and have fun milling! irishcountry


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## Brmorgan (Oct 9, 2008)

irishcountry said:


> Thanks for the input. Hang in there seems like its getting tough for everyone I know Mi. is not in the greatest shape with all the Auto industry leaving!! Hang in there and have fun milling! irishcountry



Yeah, I'm hanging in for now... Our forest industry has been decimated in the past few years as a result of the pine beetle epidemic, and the disproportionate tariffs placed on our softwood lumber by the US. So we've had a tough row to hoe for a while now, and the dropoff in housing starts combined with the devaluing American dollar and the current economy is making it really touch and go, as most of our product goes down south and we get paid in USD. On the upside, only the most efficient mills will survive and it will weed out a lot of those who are only in it for a quick profit. I'm fortunate to work in a mill where the multi-millionaire owners still come in and pull a wrench and get down and dirty with the rest of us when necessary, so at least I can tell they care. Our other primary industry is the three local copper/gold mines, and last week I was reading in a newspaper that there had been the largest one-day drop in copper prices in I forget how many years, so that's not good. But everybody's making a big deal about the new Wal-Mart that we'll be getting, and how it will provide something like 200-300 jobs. They fail to mention that they're mostly minimum-wage part-time jobs with crap benefits, compared to the $20-$40 an hour that I can make at a mill or mine. I WILL NOT EVER darken a door that says Wal-Mart above it. But I've started going O.T. again...

As far as milling goes, that might be pretty much done for this year - there's morning snow and highs in the low to mid 40s forecast for the next few days, so who knows. October 1st and 2nd were almost 90F here, and not a cloud in the sky. How quickly fall can come up here. I was hoping to get a big 30" X 80' spruce out behind dad's place milled up for studs to frame my basement in with, but it's in a wet area at the best of times and I don't feel like getting cold AND wet. It will be quick work with the system I now have worked out, so if it does turn nice again all I'll need is a day and a half or so. I do have a fair amount of 12"-16" birch logs laying on the ground in the woods out there too, and I need to get them out so they don't get whiterot in the spring, but some spalting would be nice. Speaking of birch, I should take a picture of the huge birch root ball / burl that I dug up out there. It's going to be a challenge to mill out and I will likely need some ideas and advice.


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## irishcountry (Oct 9, 2008)

Yeah some of the big box store stuff effected my business a few years back, I am in the greenhouse industry (small mom+pop scale). It was impossible to compete with their advertised prices until people got tired of buying things that only lived a month or two their "flat" was say 7$ which sounds good til you factor in Qty. a old style flat like I plant has twice the amount of plants in it than theirs the value is obvious but it took a few years to come back around in the end it actually helped me out!! I always love hearing that around here oh were getting a Walmart and its going to bring in jobs with the wages they pay and like you said the crap benefits I don't know how someone could even make it let alone support anyone but themselves. We stay away from Walmart as much as possible occasionally buy some canned goods to stock up but thats it!! Between the mill and the mine I hope you do well its good to just have a job right now and its good to hear your "higher ups" aren't afraid of getting in their and getting their hands dirty along with everyone else. I would like to see that root ball I'll keep a eye out for you post! Take care irishcountry


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