# Saddle X



## kurtztree (Feb 4, 2004)

I was wondering if anybody has used the saddle X. What are the pros and cons of it? I tried one on and it was very comfy except for the leg straps seem to pinch the back of my leg maybe because I'm not used to wearing saddles with leg straps. Then I tried on a butterfly that was very comfortable except for the two straps that go between the legs would irritate my baby maker. So now my question is for you guys that switched from saddles that did not have leg straps to saddles with leg straps did the straps seem to(pinch) irritate the back of your legs till you got used to it or is it just me?


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 4, 2004)

I've used buttstrap/bosun seat saddles since '77. Mostly Weavers, one Traverse.
My latest saddle is a Weaver leg-strap model.
I will NEVER go back to a buttstrap saddle again. The ROM of a leg-strap saddle is VASTLY SUPERIOR to a BStrap version.
I also cinch-up the legstraps as tight as I can get them. I tried loose, I tried tight, and tight works best for me. I have no problem with the legstraps holding my bodyweight.

LEGSTRAP SADDLES RULE!!!

Uhhh, IMO.

The bosun seat of the Traverse I had was bulky, and seemed to get in the way.

I'm gonna try New Tribe next.

Here are some good saddle threads;

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10024&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11410&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9882&highlight=climbing+saddle

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1158&highlight=climbing+spurs




BTW, what is a saddle X?


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## kurtztree (Feb 4, 2004)

MB That is the name of the saddle. Fresco arborist sells them. You can go on there website and they have picture of it on there. The name is Saddle X. Almost identical to the butterfly saddle. Did the leg straps pinch your legs at first too?


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 4, 2004)

Fresco, eh?

Thanks!


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## Tom Dunlap (Feb 4, 2004)

Actually, there are many differences between the X and B'fly.

Tom


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 4, 2004)

Butt strap=Ford Pinto
Leg strap=Indy car


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Butt strap=Ford Pinto
> Leg strap=Indy car *




EXCELLENT POST!!!










Uhhhhhh, YOU? Agree with ME?


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## B.Secord (Feb 4, 2004)

I knew it would eventually happen, just not so soon, but I have to agree with MB. I started with a Pinnicle and have just recieved a 1038 Weaver.
The first thing I noticed was the mobility in the Weaver, secondly I liked the adjustability ('cause up here you could be in a snow suit in the am. and in your shirt sleeves in the pm.). Not sying that the Pinnicle is a bad saddle, but there could be an easier way to adjust the leg straps.
On the other side of things is the "Centre of Gravity Issue", theWeaver is going to leave you up-side-down in a slip/fall, while the Buck has a higher centre.
Just my thoughts, I don't know any better.... still climb when its -15 degrees C.

Brent


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## kurtztree (Feb 4, 2004)

Do you know if the X meets US standards? Good one MM


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

MB, I've got a present for you......

Fresco Arborsit Supplies 


I tried the saddle X. The adjustability of the leg straps is good. I like how the the leg strap adjustments and bridge adjustments come together at that large aluminum attacment point.

If you spend a lot of time in the gaffs, you'll like this saddle. It has the widest back I've ever seen. I don't spend a lot of time on spikes and didn't like the back pad. When you bent over to go under a branch, the pad would sometimes get caught on the branch.

The gear loops on the back run up and down, rather than just the loops that all other saddles have. They are awesome! It is a natural motion to reach back and clip something to those vertical straps. For those of you that don't like those, you can cut them off and there are standard gear loops below them that you'll like.

There is no loop on the side to hang your chainsaw. You'll have to put a carabiner or something in there for that.

And regarding Rocky's assessment of who uses individual leg straps vs the butt straps. Yeah, he's right. You'll find individual leg straps on competition climbers more than on the average tree worker. But you'll also find the tautline hitch on non-competition climbers, too. Comp climbers tend to be more in-the-know. I liked the individual straps right when I started because I am a rock climber and it was a natural thing for me to do (rock climbing harnesses have individual leg straps.)

To say, "Legstrap saddles are good for fast young bucks trying to impress everybody with their speed" has a negative connotation to it. It is like saying that if you are just using this saddle for work, then you don't need the leg straps. So unless you're gonna compete, get a bosun seat.

That's just not true. Everyone likes different things. If you were to get a truck full of leg strap saddles and drove around the country to job sites letting guys try them, I'm sure you'd get a lot of guys to trade. Many stores stock mostly butt-strap saddles, and guys go in to buy a saddle and just get what they have on the wall, not knowing that there may be better options. This, in my humble but well-travelled opinion is the reason that there are so many guys with butt-strap or bosun seat saddles.

I like leg straps, and I like being comfortable. I leave the straps a little loose and it's much more friendly for the boys  

Take it easy on the young bucks, rock!

love
nick


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

*The pictures...*

Front of the X....






If you look at the where the leg straps and bridge meet, you can get an idea of why they call it the X!


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks Nick, but I don't think I'll be ordering this bulky-looking beeotch anytime soon!


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

*Back view...*

Notice the size of the back pad...


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## Tom Dunlap (Feb 4, 2004)

X is made to meet CE but it hasn't gone in for CE certification yet.

Tom


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 4, 2004)

GEEZ! That IS a HUGE backpad!


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

If you plan on buying this saddle, have your scissors handy. The straps are all way long, and need to be trimmed. It gets to be a hassle having those things flopping around. The saddle I was using wasn't mine, or else theyda been trimmed, heat sealed and the ends sew down to minimize flappage.

love
nick


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## ORclimber (Feb 4, 2004)

"Life is hard. Stay focued!"

Focue too 


That saddle X looks extremely comfortable for just hanging in. 

I use the same saddle as Masterblaster, don't understand why anyone would like a buttstrap.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 4, 2004)

I looked at it and want to try it out. they don't have my size yet.

It's was designed by climbers for climbers, and Fresco is a very responsible compnay.

The saddle has been tested to ANSI ansd OSHA standards. They're main line of buisness is utility supplies, so they have some background in this.

That all said, there is no "perfect saddle". many will like one and others will not.

Hope they get the LG saddles in so i can try one out!

I was busting on them at the WAA convention about stealing the Newtribe (oh excuse me, improving on...) leg strap


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## Lumberjack (Feb 4, 2004)

It resembles the Ness, and I think that I would love it. The backpad may be a little excessive, but I think that it would be alright. I may try it here when I get money to burn. I like that the leg straps are adjustable, unlike the Ness, but to me the legs pads are awsome compared to the glides strap. The Ness comes with 2 pass through slots on each side that I used a Kong biner to store my junk on. 

I love my ness, one of the few things that I would change would be make the legstaps adjustable, like the X's, so that I could cinch it up in the back without the straps messin with the love machine.

Really expensive, but I would bet that it is comfy. My ness feels kinda like the rope just spreads around my body and is holding me. The ness is comfy, and I am liking the X more and more.

I still aint got the rear TIP on my Ness, but I wish I did sometimes. I wish that there was a pass through on the X and the ness. Or even a loop like on buckingham's.

Carl


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm not sure that that rear loop is an attachment point? I have one on my master II, too. Is that for life support?

love
nick


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## Lumberjack (Feb 4, 2004)

Back when I was deciding which saddle, I asked the same thing about the loop. I think it was JPS that said they were and others agreed. I looked at the glide, and it seemed to be heavy enough to be used as a rear TIP, it seems to small and thick for anything else. 

So yes I believe it is a rated TIP.


Carl


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

hmmmmmm


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## Lumberjack (Feb 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by NickfromWI _
> *hmmmmmm *




Actually it was Sean. I knew it was somebody credible.

Here is the .tread 

Carl


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 4, 2004)

I like my Weaver, but it sucks that I have to add tie wraps to secure the straps.


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## Tom Dunlap (Feb 4, 2004)

MB,

Double locking rope snap on the lanyard? 

Tom


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## NickfromWI (Feb 4, 2004)

That's a good ideer, MB. You just tuck the straps in there to keep them outta the way?

love
nick


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## NeTree (Feb 4, 2004)

Looks comfy...


Hmmm....

Hafta try one... do they make one in my size?


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## xander9727 (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *I like my Weaver, but it sucks that I have to add tie wraps to secure the straps.  *



MB,
What size is that saddle? I can only get my leg straps to the fifth hole.

You ridin' around on a chicken????


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

HAHAHAHA... I think so... he has to use suspenders because of his lack of a backside.


Carl


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## xander9727 (Feb 5, 2004)

Call the bayou Po'lees......Somebody done stole'd MB backside.....

Like Boudreaux and Tibedeaux says.....I went to the mirror and there my butt was.....gone.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

I havent seem to have that problem. I can hang an 044 and the 200 without it slidin down. Now wouldn't that be a setup (heavy as heck) for TD.


Na... I like the 200 too much. And to think when I first started I was using an 044 with a 20" bar. Those weren't the days for sure.

Carl


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> [BNa... I like the 200 too much. And to think when I first started I was using an 044 with a 20" bar. Those weren't the days for sure.
> 
> Carl [/B]



Was that last week


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

Hahahahahaha, na it was 6 months ago. 

The first tree that I topped (outa 2, have since stopped I joined AS and see how they turned out) payed for the 250 that replaced the 044 for in the tree, except on big removals. Then the 200 came in mid december. Next is an 066, that would rock, and have me set for now.

I think that I have progressed way above the normal leaning curve, IMO, mostly because of AS's members keeping me thinking, and on my toes. 

Thanks to all for yalls help. Now I am actually able to answer some questions here, while still needing help.

Carl


PS I got confermation today on half a mill liability insurance. That makes me smile, as now noone here has anything on me except that one year of experiance 30 times over. Some have a bucket, but not in my city.

PSS Ever notice that the more you know the more you relize you don't know? I love it!


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## NeTree (Feb 5, 2004)

Carl, the liability is far more important than a bucket; and I'd rather climb and have a good chip truck than a bucket.

You're doing fine.


JMHO


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

OH no doubt. I would get a chipper, then a crane then a bucket. I wasn't complainin, people here with buckets have no clue how to climb, exspecially on a rope.


I figure that I am doin well, a chipper would be nice tho. All in due time, all in due time.


Carl


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *OH no doubt. I would get a chipper, then a crane then a bucket. I wasn't complainin, people here with buckets have no clue how to climb, exspecially on a rope.
> 
> 
> ...



The fact that you are working and making the money that you are is an accomplishment indeed. When I was your age all that I was concerned with was having a good time and meeting girls! Not bad thinking at the time, but I would have been far more ahead if I had been thinking along the lines that you have been!


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks, life would suck without girls tho. 


Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 5, 2004)

Life would su...

aw nevermind...


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## kurtztree (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks guys for the info some things I wasn't thinking of when I looked at it. But it is still better than my saddle I'm currently using which is about ten years old. Do the leg straps irritate your legs in the back if you dont have the bosun seat? Or that strap that goes on the underside of your butt for a seat like the weaver 1040


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## NeTree (Feb 5, 2004)

I find the leg straps on my weaver more comfy than either a bosun seat or butt-strap. But everyone has their preferance.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

Funny but true. It is all just personal preferance, I love my ness. Just depends on your preferance.


Carl


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 5, 2004)

LEG STRAPS ROCK!!!


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## Lumberjack (Feb 5, 2004)

I agree. Butt Straps sqweeze your butt together, bunson isn't very flexable. I perfer the ness's leg straps which is like a butt strap for each leg (very wide and comfy), instead of the straps that cinch down to hold, like the glide. But that is just me.


Carl


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## Curtis James (Feb 5, 2004)

Right now I climb with the versatile. I had the master II stolen from me. I preffer leg straps but the boisun seat rocks compared to just a butt strap. Do you foot lock? If so it is much easier with leg straps. I will be getting the master II again or maybe the one with the interchagable parts. I don't care for the butterfly or glide saddles. I like my tie in point to be stationary. 
Hey Tom, good eye on the single action snap in that pic.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 5, 2004)

Carl, now you need to have me come down and work with you for a little while.

I'll wait for a few weeks to bug Mr. Kurtz. It needs to warm up before I want to head north 

BTW have you been to the Sherrill store in little Chute? Not that they would have anything that you did not see at the show last weekend.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Curtis James _
> *
> Hey Tom, good eye on the single action snap in that pic. *



Why would it be a bad idea to use a non-locking snap for climbing?


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## Burnham (Feb 6, 2004)

It's not just you, Carl. I think my Ness is the finest thing going, and I've been at this a fair amount of time, and never spent more than 2 years with any one type of saddle up 'til now.

Mr. Maas, go back to the lake to throw that bass plug... .


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## Lumberjack (Feb 6, 2004)

Aint they great? The only 2 things that I would change is make the leg straps adjustable, so the don't move up or down (not a biggy) and add a rear TIP.

The ness is a great saddle that isn't overpriced by any means.


Carl


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## Lumberjack (Feb 6, 2004)

I would give the X a try if it weren't close to 300 dollars. It resembles the ness greatly, with those adjustable straps.

I think I will stick with the ness ($160).


Carl


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Burnham _
> *
> 
> Mr. Maas, go back to the lake to throw that bass plug... . *



It may seem like a silly question, but some people obviously don't know.


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## Burnham (Feb 6, 2004)

Carl, if you are in a situation where you just gotta have a rear TIP on the Ness saddle, how about using one of those 1" tubular webbing slings you tied up with the beer knot, basket slung around the belt/rear pad of the saddle. Clip in with a biner and bingo...instant temperary rear tie in. Run it between the adjustment straps for the legpads back there and it shouldn't slide around on you.



OK, Mike, if you say so. But I think people here know perfectly well what's wrong with non-locking snaps. They also know what suits them and they make a choice. It's not like locking snaps are without potential drawbacks, too.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Burnham _
> *Carl, if you are in a situation where you just gotta have a rear TIP on the Ness saddle, how about using one of those 1" tubular webbing slings you tied up with the beer knot, basket slung around the belt/rear pad of the saddle. Clip in with a biner and bingo...instant temperary rear tie in. Run it between the adjustment straps for the legpads back there and it shouldn't slide around on you.
> 
> *




I thought of that, however it could make a crease in the back pad... that wouldt be cool.


Hey nick, would it improperly load the stitching if I put a sling between the two rear pass throughs using a biner. I could tie it so that if one side failed, the other would still take the weight. (Using a length of rope with both sides tied to a biner, and a figure 8 in the middle to make a TIP. 

I know I could call New Tribe, but it aint happened yet.


Carl


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## kurtztree (Feb 6, 2004)

JPS I go to the vermeer store in little chute quite a bit. I called them today and dont have a ness in stock.So they are going to have a ness at the open house on March 19 now. After the show I now think my Petzl Microscender lanyard is out the door I will replace it with a Vt knot seem so much better and I want to get a climbing line with the eyes on each end got to go with a split tail system now. Learned so much at the Waa-DNR conferance. I am going to do a tree tomorrow and try out the new slings the new silky zubat and the leg scabbard. I might let you know how it was.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 7, 2004)

After that first cut with the Silky, you'll say "Holy Canollies Batman! Why did I wait so long!"


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *After that first cut with the Silky, you'll say "Holy Canollies Batman! Why did I wait so long!" *




I reccon that means that will be the next thing to get. 



Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

You'll never regret it!


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

I reccon not, the way everyone raves about them. Any pointers with the scabard? I want the leg scabard, is the Silky's scabard the best?


Carl


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 7, 2004)

Thats affirmative, Carl. I'm a recent convert to the Zubat, and it cuts quite exquisitely. It makes a different sound as it cuts through the wood.
Uhh, just ignore the price.  









I wonder why when I click this thread I get a security warning from my firewall (or, whatever)? No other thread initiates this, only this one.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 7, 2004)

I won't say it is the best thing since sliced bread, but much better then your average handsaw.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *
> I wonder why when I click this thread I get a security warning from my firewall (or, whatever)? No other thread initiates this, only this one.   *



Someone hotlinked the Fresco site and they have something funny there. I think their utilities sight is the home and the Arbo an afterthought, so the security authentication does not match to the site. This is a redflag for your firewall. Like a hijacked webpage bringing you to some sleaze-****-toothless bickerchick site.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Thats affirmative, Carl. I'm a recent convert to the Zubat, and it cuts quite exquisitely. It makes a different sound as it cuts through the wood.
> Uhh, just ignore the price.  *




I have already posted that the cost doesn't matter (to me), as long as it is the best. I rember you tellin me about the sound when you first got it. Exquisitely? Thats a 2 dollar word Butch!


JPS are you saying that there is something better? If so then I am all ears.

Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

ore yew culd jest mayke yore owen scaberd...


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> * Like a hijacked webpage bringing you to some sleaze-****-toothless bickerchick site. *





So, this can happen automatically???











Yeah, I know - thanks. I was wondering what the freak was up with that.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

Swhat i wuz tinkin aboot.


Carl


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 7, 2004)

Erk, er you picin awn mee?!!  

Carl, the Zubat is the best tree work handsaw on the market today. I was jut trying to not get your expectations up to an unreasonable level.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

Yea, expectations can be a beyatch. I don't have a hand saw, only the pole saw, so I want to get the best that is available. I know that I might bend a few blades, but I can be gentle with some things.

Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

Butch... I just added in a 120gig drive, just so I could fill it up with ****..... BRING ON THOSE HIJACKS!!!

JPS...... We know ewe spell just fiyne. 

Carl..... WHADDAYA MEAN YA DON'T HAVE A HANDSAW YET????


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

Never got to it yet. I figure that it is time, I like the pole saw, so I figure that it is time to get the handsaw.


Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

Your ears (and your neighbors) will thank you for it.


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 7, 2004)

CARL! NO HANDSAW???  


What iz you, nuts? 

So you sthil ain't doing any trims?


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

I aint got no neighbors. I live out in the sticks. However I think that I will like hearing the sounds of nature.


Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

Ahem... I meant your customers' neighbors...

OOPS.


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

I know, I was kidding. However it would be cool to not have to crank up every single time I want to wack a limb. Plus less stress from noise.

Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

Not to mention a silky will make a much more tree-friendly cut on small limbs than a chainsaw...


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## Lumberjack (Feb 7, 2004)

Yea, and it weighs less. Plus it is something new. Buying new stuff, that you can use is fun.


Carl


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## NeTree (Feb 7, 2004)

Ya got THAT right!


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## kurtztree (Feb 8, 2004)

I got the tree done yesterday. The silky zubat hand saw rocks. The leg scabbard sucks. I 'll have to try to fix the scabbard that came with the saw like someone did in a other thread. Didnt use the slings because there was no roping involved. Now what pole saw blades does everybody use or which ones do you like best? I dont have one yet. Thanks


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## NeTree (Feb 8, 2004)

I made my own scabbard for my Zubat. Got sick of fighting with theirs, too.

I use Snap-cut. Not the best, but they work.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 8, 2004)

A cople turns of electrical tape in all the joints of the scabbard will solve most of the problems.


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## Koa Man (Nov 13, 2005)

Regarding the Saddle X. I bought one after seeing this thread w/o trying it on first. I should have waited to try it on at a trade show, and I will never buy another saddle w/o trying it on first. I did not like the way the leg straps hung. It would slide down to the point where it interfered with my ability to move my legs freely. I thought I could live with that because the super wide back would be real comfortable when doing palm trees all day. Guess what, the middle of the X on the back pad has a metal button that you can barely feel with your fingers. After working in it and leaning on the pad, it starts to press right on your spine. I can use this saddle for about 10 coconut palms and that's it. I could use my Traverse and Pinnacle all day. I tried on a Dragonfly, Butterfly and the Ness at the show. I bought the Ness. I liked the way it hung and will be trying it out this week. I told the guys at the Fresco booth about the X Button problem and that I did not like the saddle. The saddle sits in the storage room after a total of about 16 hours of use. On real trees it was OK at best, IMO. 
Everybody NEEDS to at least TRY the saddle on before buying.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 14, 2005)

I did not like the way many things on this saddle worked either.

I got to demo it for a few weeks last year.


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## NickfromWI (Nov 14, 2005)

It's just too darn big. Too bulky, too many buckles and too many straps hanging all over the place.

The first day I had it on, the back pad got stuck on a branch I was ducking under. Blech! That should never happed!

I'll stick to the MII or the Butterfly.

love
nick


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