# climbing-tearing up your body-how long can we do it for!?



## Greenstar (Mar 20, 2009)

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-How many of you have been climbing for 10 years or more?

-How many of you do this full-time, and how many of you do this tree service part-time.

-How many of you have nagging aches and pains that make you want to change professions because your body just cant take it anymore?

-How many of you have come back from having constant aches and pains to keep climbing on and on?

-What age have most of you older gents quit climbing?


These are all questions I ponder on a day to day basis still lately. I don't know if its because I'm still single, or what! but I've been climbing and have owned my own tree company for 12 years now! This is a question I ask myself quite frequently now. I am 33. I don't know if its because I cant stand my employees (I know thats harsh) but because good, smart, conscientious cool employees are hard to find (dudes are hassles), because I'm working too long hours, because I'm climbing too much, because I'm not making enough (because I tell you I don't seem to ache as much when I'm making 1,000 + a day few times a month), I don't gain enough respect for my work, I don't stretch enough, get enough sleep, again because I'm still single, or because I dont smoke enough green anymore!?
Or whether its just what I've heard from other guys locally who own successful businesses in this area (Boston) that guys can only take so many years of climbing. That 8-10 years of climbing is about all a man can take, and most guys have to give it up after a while..

-Can you tell I'm having a midlife crisis guys!? 

The thing is, getting someone to go up there and do the work for you while you watch, when you are such a good arborist yourself, to do the work for you, while you sit there and watch, is so hard for me to do.
Good climbers, especially arborists, who know how to listen, discuss a tree's many unique characteristics and needs individual to each tree species, and guys who can get the job done, responsibly, are so hard to come by.
The legendary Rolf Briggs from Tree Specialists Inc. once told me that the good climbers eventually end up leaving the industry, unless they are making 80K a year plus, because its just not worth it for them. The amount of work, the wear and tear, the customer correspondence, the risk, and just everything that goes along with it, its just too much to handle on a day to day basis very long.

Sorry for this guys. I know its not what some of you want to hear. There are many things I love about this job. Furthermore I should be thankful that I have a job the way the economy is right now. But its just running me into the ground. So much of the time I'm just feeling like I'm over it. I have mastered trees I feel. I need to move on, and only do this part-time. Thats what I think I'm going to do, is do this part-time. I'm just not making enough money. I'm trying to become a nurse.
Ok, you can all call me gay now :deadhorse: :sword:

ps. this is totally different for you guys who work for someone else. TOTALLY different! I think I could handle that (So keep climbing guys!). And unless you've ever run your own tree company you can probably relate more easily. But this is to you guys who have been running your own quality tree care company for many years! The owners. Peace to y'all


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 20, 2009)

I make a good living as a climber/consultant, though I'm not on the clock for 50 hours a week any more.

I'm 43 next month, and have had a number of service connected disabilities that cause those nagging aches and pains all the time. Some of them the climbing actually helps.

Not everyone has the ability to do this for years, just a fact of nature. If you want to get rich, it is the wrong business. Though i do know a number of people who live comfortably.

You also need to look at the rest of your lifestyle, if you are still partying a lot, then you need to look at your priorities.

Finding good employees is a problem in any field, one mus "winnow the chaff" and let the bad ones go. When you find a good one, you treat them very well, so that they don't want to leave.

Delegation is hard for anyone who wants to have their own business. It is even harder to leave the site and trust them not to eff it up. Which is the biggest thing that holds a small operator back. If you have to do everything, then something is not getting done. Leads do not get run, clients do not get call backs, equipment does not get worked on. You neglect your body by trying to get one more thing done before you go to bed way to late for what you have done that day...

Being single is a drag too, things do not get done around the house, you have no one as a sounding board, or to give you that hug when the job gets you down. One of Freddy B's guys said it well "I can't snuggle up with my cat".

Smoking anything is for idiots; I know this because I was one.


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## ozzy42 (Mar 20, 2009)

I got burned out on tree work,both mentally ,and physically after 15 years.
Got my class a cdl and went driving around the country for awhile. Burned out on that in just one year otr,and drove in state for another 5 years. Now I am back to trees.
More freedom doing trees than driving a truck. Was a lil better the last 2 years when I owned my own truck,but still had to answer to too many people.
Tree work is very hard on the body,you're right about that.But you will miss it when you quit,trust me.


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## Greenstar (Mar 20, 2009)

I am pretty physically fit, as far as climbers go. Maybe a little on the skinny side. Im 6' 158 lbs. But have climbed for years and could work non stop. I used to do 12 hr days all the time. Sometimes out working 6 days a week. 

Now i just want to work 3-4 hrs tops. I hate all the running around all the time. I have lower back issues, and right rotator cuff tendinitis. 
What i know i should be doing is yoga everyday. But i cant bring myself to do it because i feel so stupid doing it. 

It seems like i never have time to do anything else, because all im thinking is TREE SERVICE all the time! Time discipline, and management is always a problem since im boss. Unless i have good employees, then i want to be punctual and disciplined for them. Ive had hundreds of employees over the years. Now im working on a better training program of some sort. 
-Does anyone have good training tips?

Im trying to make video clips of "how to's". I also want to get those ISA training videos and make copies, so i can giv e to guys. Ive sent a couple guys to the "Arbormaster" training course. I took it myself. Great course. Even knowing as much as i do, as pro as I am  i learned a helluva a lot from Rip Thompkins! Its $500 but it was really worth it. I can set a line almost anywhere, in any tree, even if there is tons of shag everywhere, through multiline setting techniques. Also picked up quite a few other tips which are priceless. Anyway, have also sent guys to tree school (Prep course for the MCA exam, that a lot of guys in New England take. Its taught at a local community college up in Danvers, MA. Its great course. Anyway, the empolyees never seem to pan out. Unless i can keep steady work. Thats the prob. If i want steady work, i gotta be runnin around to no end. Gotta get a hold on runnin my business, not lettin my business run me!

-How many of you guys let your top employees know the dollar figures on jobs? And how many of you guys pay your top guys on a percentage basis?

Later guys! See you at the top!  Or the bottom


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## arbor pro (Mar 20, 2009)

:jawdrop::spam::agree2::greenchainsaw::monkey:

too many of these can give a guy a headache...


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 20, 2009)

Started climbing in 1977 and climbed strong for 26 years. No complaints. Now I am an operations manager and miss climbing.
Jeff


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## M.D. Vaden (Mar 20, 2009)

I've got nagging aches and pains - even though I don't climb.

That's why I tried to bail-out of this trade 3 years ago when we moved to southern Oregon. What I did not know, was that 3 or 4 weeks of easy sales work would make me hurt 2 times worse.

All the raking of country club sand traps for 5 years, the landscape lifting and shoveling, and like 20 years of handsawing 4 continuous hours pruning a few days a week started to grind on me.

The solution is to just slow down slightly, and adjust the hours I do the harder work to 3 to 6 hours. I now believe I can stick with this until I'm 80 years old.

I've got a friend who climbs in Indiana, and I think it's beginning to wear on him a tiny bit too.

The main thing I realize, is that I don't want to retire. I like this work - a lot. So shorter work days, for more years is the way to go for my needs.

By not working full-length days, and slowing down a little, my back pain is almost all gone. And my knuckle and wrist pain is just a fraction of what it used to be.


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## Rickytree (Mar 20, 2009)

Cut down on the booze, eat right, drink lots of water, and get on some fish oil capsules. I gotta do it too.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 20, 2009)

Still going at 64-65 & feel good. Started in 1958 at 14 yrs. old, trimming with my dad, a former Orange climber. I have had no regrets & only a few minor fractures, falls & injuries over the years. Took about 5-6,000 crane jobs over the early years with lattice boom cranes & then hydraulic cranes. The only new "old school" is a wire core lanyard w/ micro ajustor.Oh yeah,a breakaway bungee cord for my topping saw. If at some future time I no longer post, I've died doing what I loved doing. Good luck to you younger guys and happy climbing.


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## Greenstar (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Old Chip. Thats a cool post. Thanks for the good post man. 
Just do me one favor. With all due respect, stop topping trees. Its not acceptable practice in arboriculture any longer. Science has since proven that.


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## Raymond (Mar 20, 2009)

I hurt everyday. I can go to work and work circles around the young guys though. Just gotta throw the crippled body in the right directions and make every move count.

Getting out of the truck at the end of a full day and holding silverware at night can sometimes be a #####.


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## Greenstar (Mar 20, 2009)

How old are you?


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## ropensaddle (Mar 20, 2009)

46 and 25 years in the saddle still get r done but it is my pace or no pace.


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## Rftreeman (Mar 20, 2009)

How long can we do it you ask? Well I'll say it depends on you your self and your body condition, I'm 39 and started climbing in 1988 but can't so much now due to the fact that I'm a fat bastard now with a bad knee (working on repairing both problems) but I still do a simple removal every now and then but most of the time someone else does it for me. I hope to be back in the saddle so to speak in a year or so.


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## tomtrees58 (Mar 20, 2009)

climbing for 34 years now no problem tom trees


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## Raymond (Mar 20, 2009)

43 and climbing for about 20 years.

My elbows are so shot, I can't hardly put my finger in my ear to flick the sawdust out.
Just takes both arms, one to do it and the other to pull the arm to the ear. 
We get beat but we adapt. You put me in a tree though and I run around like I'm 20 again. It's the ride home that hurts.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 20, 2009)

The bottom of my feet hurt at the end of the day, my left arm , sometimes the right too, my back occasionally, always my inner groin area (chaffing) , my throat from talking to loud , my left knee sometimes, right always, and when i work on pin oaks i tend to get a lot of scratches, some bloody , but overall thats about it . Think of it this way you could be doing something that doesn't have such nice views into backyards and upstairs windows :check:


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## treemandan (Mar 20, 2009)

I am sorry, I guess I just thought we were all in this to see just how much a man can take. If that is not the point to all this then somebody better give me a real good reason why I am still here and it better be good.


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 21, 2009)

The mone... no wait! The notoriety! Dan you are the man! Go Dan go!

My knee hurts... rest of me is itching to climb... gonna be a long wait till May.


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## oldirty (Mar 21, 2009)

hey greenstar.


i gave you my number the other night. you want someone to help your company out on the odd occasion. let me know.


you looking for good help, i just offered.


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## tree md (Mar 21, 2009)

I turned 40 6 months ago. Been climbing since 91. Got hurt pretty bad at the end of 01 and couldn't walk for a year without a cane. I started doing home repairs and eventually ended up working as a personal trainer for a paraplegic lady. That lasted about 2 years but I started back to doing trees on the side in 04. By 06 I was back at it full time again. Trees are all I really know. Couldn't see myself doing anything else. It is what I have done for nearly my entire adult life. When I wasn't doing it I missed it. 

I got a little burnt out last year with the ice storm we had here. Had to work 31 days straight without a day off in the beginning and was busy as a one armed paper hanger up till fall. Then business dropped off and I got to hunt as much as I wanted through the season. It's starting to pick back up but would like to see it pick up a little more. I get the same aches and pains as everyone else but nothing too severe. I like to work hard, it makes the beer taste good at the end of the day. I've got to say that I might not be as physically fit as when I was younger but I am a better faster climber. I'm better at positioning and making my way through the tree. I work a lot smarter now. Barring any accidents or health problems, I can easily see myself climbing into my 60's. Had a climber contract with me from OH during the ice storm who was 64 and he was GOOD!

Funny, 33 don't sound too old to me. That was prime time for me as far as being physically fit.


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 21, 2009)

This is interesting stuff for me. In the past 2 years I've been doing more climbing than ground work and am feeling some side effects. Elbows and shoulders ache, calves, thighs and shins as well. Don't even get me started on my wrists and hands from constant saw vibes. It could be the climbing, it could be my age setting in but I don't know. Would be good to hear more stories from the vets about how they've lasted as long as they have.


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 21, 2009)

56, 5'10" and 155 lbs., same as in high school. Vegan for the last fifteen years, ovo lacto vegetarian for fifteen before that. I've been climbing for about twenty years, both for business and pleasure. My aches and pains fade away as soon as I'm up in the trees and they don't stop me from having fun when I'm down. Like someone said before, I take the gigs at my pace, and that is the big difference, I think. If I climbed for others and had to do so at their pace, I doubt that I would enjoy my working days as much as I do. I hope to keep climbing for another twenty years, but one never knows---- 

Related: There seems to be a common thread in replies, when centenarians are asked how they made it to 100. Most say that keeping busy and active are the key. When I am off for a few days at a time, it is then that my body starts letting me know about aches in muscles and joints I never knew I had!


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## Raymond (Mar 21, 2009)

tree md said:


> I turned 40 6 months ago. Been climbing since 91. Got hurt pretty bad at the end of 01 and couldn't walk for a year without a cane. I started doing home repairs and eventually ended up working as a personal trainer for a paraplegic lady. That lasted about 2 years but I started back to doing trees on the side in 04. By 06 I was back at it full time again. Trees are all I really know. Couldn't see myself doing anything else. It is what I have done for nearly my entire adult life. When I wasn't doing it I missed it.
> 
> I got a little burnt out last year with the ice storm we had here. Had to work 31 days straight without a day off in the beginning and was busy as a one armed paper hanger up till fall. Then business dropped off and I got to hunt as much as I wanted through the season. It's starting to pick back up but would like to see it pick up a little more. I get the same aches and pains as everyone else but nothing too severe. I like to work hard, it makes the beer taste good at the end of the day. I've got to say that I might not be as physically fit as when I was younger but I am a better faster climber. I'm better at positioning and making my way through the tree. I work a lot smarter now. Barring any accidents or health problems, I can easily see myself climbing into my 60's. Had a climber contract with me from OH during the ice storm who was 64 and he was GOOD!
> 
> Funny, 33 don't sound too old to me. That was prime time for me as far as being physically fit.


Good for you!  I took a nasty fall awhile back and was down for 4 months. Man I tell ya it felt like a year.

The doctors told me I would need to be getting in another line of work. I laughed, my wife laughed I told him you just get me fixed up and I'll be fine. I was climbing and removed a VERY LARGE silver maple the day after my neck brace was removed. And two weeks after my two casts were removed.


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## capetrees (Mar 21, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> ----------------------------------------------
> -How many of you have been climbing for 10 years or more?
> 
> -How many of you do this full-time, and how many of you do this tree service part-time.
> ...



I've been climbing trees, as many in here know, since I could just about walk. Now, I'm 45, 220 lbs and have no desire to stop climbing or doing what I do anytime soon. Tree work for me is part time, weekends mostly and for the rest of the week I'm a general contractor/landscaper and it's labor all day, the kind nobody else wants to do. I work in the rain, snow, wind, day, night, weekends, anywhere, anytime and I love it. Yes, I get worn down on occasion but I do break up the year with two scheduled weekends off, one in the summer and one in the winter and I recuperate pretty quickly. No real vacations for the past 5 years I think and here comes another spring/busy season. No question I love what I do. 

If the labor is getting to you, move on to something you want to do thats not so labor intensive, maybe even another job related to the field without the labor, maybe office manager or estimator for a tree company or even, as mentioned, a total different occupation, a nurse. (and no, thats not gay) Some have the durability and some don't, Don't take it as a sign of a lack of manhood. Its just reality. On the other hand for me, I would probably go on a three state killing spree if I had to work in and office for more than a week. My siblings can't do this work and all work in white collar jobs. Its just the nature of the beast. 

Good luck


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## grizzly2 (Mar 21, 2009)

A vegan from Texas? I didn't know that was possible. Just kidding! I'm 33, and have been at it for about thirteen years. I typically only ache on the weekends that I don't work. Just means I need to keep working.


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## Greenstar (Mar 21, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> 56, 5'10" and 155 lbs., same as in high school. Vegan for the last fifteen years, ovo lacto vegetarian for fifteen before that. I've been climbing for about twenty years, both for business and pleasure. My aches and pains fade away as soon as I'm up in the trees and they don't stop me from having fun when I'm down. Like someone said before, I take the gigs at my pace, and that is the big difference, I think. If I climbed for others and had to do so at their pace, I doubt that I would enjoy my working days as much as I do. I hope to keep climbing for another twenty years, but one never knows----
> 
> Related: There seems to be a common thread in replies, when centenarians are asked how they made it to 100. Most say that keeping busy and active are the key. When I am off for a few days at a time, it is then that my body starts letting me know about aches in muscles and joints I never knew I had!



Good stuff man! Nice website too. You look like you run a tight ship! A model service which probably works well for you. Good stuff man, good stuff!

Hey, just a quick question about that "Live Oak that is far too bushy!" in your before and after photos page.

It definitely looks awesome, and I totally agree with you. Nice expanation too, as far as to what it needs. My only question is that when such a transformation/pruning/remodeling is needed, is it really safe to take all that out just in one sitting? Again, like i said, it looks awesome! But it seems like you took out A LOT. 
I have always been told to do most of the structural big stuff, thin out the interior, but leave some of the epicormic growth, and lower branches until a second stage a year or to later once the tree recovers from such an aggressive prune?
Again, is that safe to do? Are you sure it won't shock the tree? My biggest fear too in a situation like that is all f a sudden the roots and ground are opened up to much increased light, sun, heat, and air, and then the young trees environment has totally changed, and its roots suffer from drought stress!

Anyway, you are model for us arborists. Nice pruning, and nice website.

Peace man!

Ben, in Boston


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 21, 2009)

Rickytree said:


> Cut down on the booze, eat right, drink lots of water, and get on some fish oil capsules. I gotta do it too.



One of the shortest posts...one of the best. I concur. 

I personally don't do much climbing but I'm working my butt off to build a legit business. 

It's all about the inputs brother.

Think about yourself as a high tech tree care machine, because you are, the highest of tech from the highest of engineers.

Thus only the purest and best fuel in the tank, the best lube in the joints. Don't overheat, and stay on a maintenance schedule.

Monkeys do it their whole life cause they don't eat junk, else they'd be ground pounding their way to extinction....like most of us. 

My "twenty somethings" that I've gone through wonder why I can walk away from them, especially down the stretch, this is why. Of course, now I'm down to one that has a strong back and a clue so we are good to go.

If I would have treated myself this way during my athlete daze, then who knows what I could have accomplished.

The best shape I was ever in was during Army training when I had zero access to junk.

By the way I beat tennis elbow in both elbows with the help of things like bromelain. The natural source is found in pineapples, but you can buy a supplement.

http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=340308

Along with eating right, I take various supplements and vitamins. I can tell a difference when I skip them.

Good luck, stay tough.


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## Greenstar (Mar 21, 2009)

Blakesmaster, and capetrees,

How about your hands?
I gotta say that my hands have started aching a lot, and I realize its from gripping the rope so hard when you climb. I don't know why this is just starting to effect me now, but I am afraid to get arthritis in my hands. Because when I feel pain in my hands sometimes now, it just sucks. I never used to be like this, but quite frankly, as most of you all know, when climbing, and placing yourself in and around trees, you're always grabbing your rope, doing a little body thrusting, pulling yourself with rope, correct? Clenching those hands real tight around the rope!
That cant be too good for your hands!
Dudes, my knuckles and hands have been aching for few months now!

Hey, maybe I will take bromelain, and fish oils. Actually fellas, try Hemp oil! Its this brand Nutiva, you can find it on Amazon. The stuff is so tasty, and good. Its organic hemp oil. GREAT source of omega 3,6, and 9's. And the best thing about it is it tastes so good! Tastes nutty, and sweet like. Put it on everything. Cant wait to buy some more.

Peace guys.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 21, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> This is interesting stuff for me. In the past 2 years I've been doing more climbing than ground work and am feeling some side effects. Elbows and shoulders ache, calves, thighs and shins as well. Don't even get me started on my wrists and hands from constant saw vibes. It could be the climbing, it could be my age setting in but I don't know. Would be good to hear more stories from the vets about how they've lasted as long as they have.



lol it is called bills.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 21, 2009)

Check out a Physical Therapist for chronic muscular problems. They can give you exercises and manipulations (deep massage) methods to unlock some of that stuff.

Mine says I have tendonopothy problems because my strength is concentrated in very short ranges of motion; the roper gripping you mention is a very good example.

It is very painfull at first, but you will notice less pain and more strength after a very short period of time. I seem to recall Dan and I trading some "My Therapist is More Sadistic than Yours" stories a while back.

Also, if you think yoga is for sissies, check out Thai-Chi. Heck, try a pillates class to hunt for a S/O.

Hey Dan, you know you do this because you get paid to play in trees.


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 21, 2009)

I've been climbing for 24yrs, and i find it easier now than I used to. i don't think climbing "tears your body up" I think if you don't stay in shape you can pull muscles and tendons, and of course you can accrue injuries.

I know a guy who's approaching retirement who still climbs albeit a little slower so I see no reason why anyone couldn't continue as long as they wished.

I also think yoga is great although I don't partake but I do have a rigorous workout schedule. I also think a good diet is vital. It's not a job for burger eaters. 

The parameters of my employment do not enable me be to climbing as much as I would like so I find myself creating opportunities!


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 21, 2009)

I don't know but when i prune all day , my legs don't seem to hurt as much , yesturday i spent 7 hrs trimming silver maples and the only that bothered me was my forearms. But when i'm in spikes in like 3 hrs. i seem to fall apart and I am much more tired . I think trunk chunking does me in the fastest , especially if your roping it all down. Maybe i'm crazy.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 21, 2009)

Since you asked .....

RAISE YOUR PRICES....

I AM 49, been climbing profesionally since 81... graduated college in 86 and have done tree work as a full time profession since then. I do almost all the climbing, and make a decent living... Occasionally I'll subcontract a contract climber or 75' bucket truck, and use the local crane companies when the work is there.

I used to use my own strength and hard work to power through jobs while charging next to nothing for the work... Worked so hard with so little to show for it... Working with old beat up trucks and chippers. There were other local companies that would just walk away from estimates without even giving a price if they found out I was bidding on it too.

THAT SUCKED!!!

After i got Lyme in 98, I just couldn't work that hard anymore.. so I raised my prices, did more advertising and it all went so much better. Now I run a 14' chip truck with a 2007 Brush bandit 1590 (with winch) and a 2003 Rayco super RG 50 grinder... bought an 97 GMC altec LR IV, last Feb as well... At only 55' it doesn;t get out that much though.. All is paid for... 

If you are only making $1000 on a good day, and you can climb as well as you say,... then you are probably underpricing. Severly. $2000-2500 should be a good day. $1,200-1,500 average even in this economy!

When you raise your prices you can pay your men better and therefore get better men, as well as buy some decent equipment and put some cash away etc..

12hrs/day x 6 days/week is over working the body.. Find a contract climber to do the big trees and put enough $ on the monsters to pay for the crane... Learn to accurately fall trees and get up on the latest climbing gear and techniques.. Give yourself fallow periods.. vacations or plow snow or whatever... let the body R&R..

I AM MUCH faster that I was 16 years ago when I was 33... SO much faster..
And so much more profitable...

Now as far as "feeling stupid doing yoga"... Get over that. My girl is a yoga teacher and she kicks my butt... She's hard to keep up with... Ripped and unstopable... When I can barely get out of bed in the morning, she's on her way to the gym for 30+ minutes on the eliptical and then swims a mile at 7:30 AM...

So find a good yoga studio and class. And if you want to meet a good woman, you'll be outnumberred 8:1.. Take your pick.. They are awesome women... And after doing yoga with her on weekends for the past two months, I have never been in as good physical conditioning coming into mid March as I AM right now..

PM me with your # if you want to talk.


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## tree md (Mar 21, 2009)

:agree2:

It's been over 10 years since I have worked for another service. When I was younger I worked with a couple of the larger outfits. One service would dog it's climbers out and have the best climbers on monster removals or difficult prunes every day of the week. That guy had a high turn over rate. The other large service (and by far the best I worked for) Spread his talent are round. He had five crews with climbers of different skill levels (plus the owner climbed himself). All were pretty good climbers. He would put a climber on a difficult tree one day then give them a light job the next day and use another climber and crew for the next difficult job, That way no one got beat up too bad and everyone remained pretty fresh.

Working for oneself is sometimes slow paced, sometimes grueling. I wish it would be more even keel all year but that is not the way it works. During the last ice storm I mentioned in my last post we were balls to the wall pretty much all year. Hard to take a day off when driveways are blocked, trees are on houses and you have people calling all night screaming at you to get them cleaned up ASAP. That's where the service part of the business is in full effect. I cuss the slow periods but TG for them. No one can work balls to the wall 365 a year and last.

I agree with Murph on pricing. I like to bid for a crane on the largest, hairiest removals and I intend to get paid well. On a large risky removal I am going to make at least a grand, just me, above and beyond my expense. My deductible is a grand and I am going to at least have my ass covered. Let the other guys beat themselves up working for peanuts. Not me, I'm not in it for my health.

I bid a large removal at a church for $3600 a couple of weeks ago. No access for a crane and I would have to spend a day lowering wood, maybe two. Plus they wanted the large stump ground as well as the root system that went through the whole back yard. I bid 31 for the tree and 500 for the stump and roots. When I submitted the bid I could tell they had already gotten a much lower estimate by their actions. My dad was palling around with me that day and asked me why I didn't try to compete with the lower bid. I told him because I don't want them all. The job would have more than likely taken me 3 days from start to finish with all the rigging, moving wood out of there where there was no access for equipment and the stump and roots. I actually thought my bid was pretty low for all the work involved. I will let someone else beat themselves up for peanuts on that one, if I do it I intend to get paid and paid well. The very next day I secured a $5300 job with less risk and better access.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 21, 2009)

Had a guy show up at the chipper while I was chipping the other day and wanted an estimate.

So I give him one...he smiled and says, "that's too high."

I smiled and said, "I know, everytyhing is too high."

He tells me he wants another bid from someone else to compare. I told him that would be great, and if they bid lower they can have it, I stay pretty busy.

It was a lighthearted exchange as he smoked his pipe in one of the niced suburbs in town.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 21, 2009)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Had a guy show up at the chipper while I was chipping the other day and wanted an estimate.
> 
> So I give him one...he smiled and says, "that's too high."
> 
> ...


Yea guess what they all think the word recession means work cheap but :censored: that i pay the same for insurance payments fuel and equipment nothing has gotten any cheaper for me.


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## Adkpk (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm just starting a 52. My knee was hurting pretty bad this week (I don't know why) but nothing was stopping me from climbing the hill in the back yard to get to the giant pine to try out my newly arrived "Texas Tree Monkey System". I feel better now.  

I also find climbing to be relaxing on all else which ails me. But then again I don't climb everyday.


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 21, 2009)

tree md said:


> :agree2:
> I told him because I don't want them all. The job would have more than likely taken me 3 days from start to finish with all the rigging, moving wood out of there where there was no access for equipment and the stump and roots. I actually thought my bid was pretty low for all the work involved. I will let someone else beat themselves up for peanuts on that one, if I do it I intend to get paid and paid well. The very next day I secured a $5300 job with less risk and better access.



EXACTLY! There's nothing worse than the trepidation about bringing a job in on time, safely, and making enough money because it's under priced. Let someone else be the busy fool.


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 21, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> ..........but nothing was stopping me from climbing the hill in the back yard to get to the giant pine to try out my newly arrived "Texas Tree Monkey System". I feel better now.
> 
> 
> I was looking at that in the B**hop Cat. How did you get along with that.


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## Raymond (Mar 21, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> Since you asked .....
> 
> RAISE YOUR PRICES....
> 
> ...


:computer: I think your figures are just a little high but Man I totally agree with ya. 
But what do we do about the unemployed/now tree dorks running around under bidding everything and the damn near unemployed people who have no choice but to go with these underbidding scabs? 

You know how hard that was to write without getting censored?


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## capetrees (Mar 21, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Blakesmaster, and capetrees,
> 
> How about your hands?



Hard to grip the rope? Get a fatter rope or use assenders. As far as hands go, I treat mine a work tools as opposed to human appendages. They have been through hell, never wear gloves, never put any lotion on them and still they work like bramd new.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 21, 2009)

Just put your mind beyond the pain. I about fifteen years ago broke both collar bones smashed my left scapula and dislocated my right, punctured a lung and hairline fracture in a vertebrae, that was a painful experience. top that off with five years before that cut my right forearm to the bone getting several tendons and was only off work two months for the cut three for the other. I have pain all the time but, it is not nearly as bad as the three months recovering from the accident so I focus on that. I don't favor pain instead I work through it and is probably why I can climb disabled.


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## grizzly2 (Mar 22, 2009)

I think Murph's prices are good for the Philly region. Plus, some of the clients in that area should be charged more, just because they're a pain to deal with. I know, not the pain that this thread is about, but a pain none the less.


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## Adkpk (Mar 22, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> Adkpk said:
> 
> 
> > ..........but nothing was stopping me from climbing the hill in the back yard to get to the giant pine to try out my newly arrived "Texas Tree Monkey System". I feel better now.
> ...


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 22, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> TreeTopKid said:
> 
> 
> > Texas Tree Monkey is a keeper. I am planing to posting a thread after the weekend it's a dial-up thing.
> ...


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 22, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> lol it is called bills.



Hahaha, good stuff rope, they won't let me rep you though. I wanna be like you when I grow up.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 22, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Hahaha, good stuff rope, they won't let me rep you though. I wanna be like you when I grow up.



No you don't stay in school be a geek I now wish I had not been so proud but oh well I have a bs in common sense lol


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 22, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> No you don't stay in school be a geek I now wish I had not been so proud but oh well I have a bs in common sense lol



Heh. I'm not smart enough to be a geek. That's ok, 'cause tree dopes like us get the ladies.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 22, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Heh. I'm not smart enough to be a geek. That's ok, 'cause tree dopes like us get the ladies.



Lol it is cause we have big trunks


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## treemandan (Mar 22, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> This is interesting stuff for me. In the past 2 years I've been doing more climbing than ground work and am feeling some side effects. Elbows and shoulders ache, calves, thighs and shins as well. Don't even get me started on my wrists and hands from constant saw vibes. It could be the climbing, it could be my age setting in but I don't know. Would be good to hear more stories from the vets about how they've lasted as long as they have.




he said " feeling some side effects" I am just dieing over here now " Side effects" Oh boy, I'm done.

Ha ha ha, that's funny Blakes, real funny. Let us know when you stop feeling some side effects and start feeling them all. hell, I got side effects I never even knew I had.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 22, 2009)

treemandan said:


> he said " feeling some side effects" I am just dieing over here now " Side effects" Oh boy, I'm done.
> 
> Ha ha ha, that's funny Blakes, real funny. Let us know when you stop feeling some side effects and start feeling them all. hell, I got side effects I never even knew I had.



EEEEEhhhhhhhhhhhh is that you or the Dan 
:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 23, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Good stuff man! Nice website too. You look like you run a tight ship! A model service which probably works well for you. Good stuff man, good stuff!
> 
> Hey, just a quick question about that "Live Oak that is far too bushy!" in your before and after photos page.
> 
> ...



ANSI standards call for up to a 25% canopy reduction in one session. On that tree, on my site, we took about the limit and it was looking great the next year when we went back. We did not need to do much to it, the second time around, but the client had many other trees that needed work. There is a fine line between taking not enough and taking too much. I usually err on the side of leaving a bit more, but that tree seemed to be cool with a little bit more off than usual.


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## treevet (Mar 23, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Just put your mind beyond the pain. I about fifteen years ago broke both collar bones smashed my left scapula and dislocated my right, punctured a lung and hairline fracture in a vertebrae, that was a painful experience. top that off with five years before that cut my right forearm to the bone getting several tendons and was only off work two months for the cut three for the other. I have pain all the time but, it is not nearly as bad as the three months recovering from the accident so I focus on that. I don't favor pain instead I work through it and is probably why I can climb disabled.



I bid a job yesterday and the neighbor just had a gypsy service come in partially remove a dead elm. They told the story of a guy climbing up a ladder and making a one handed cut while arm was around a stem. Lost grip when saw was caught in a kerf and down he went. The lady said he was really hurting then she pointed where he landed in the concrete driveway....ouch. Ambulence, and likely years of pain and disability.

I have fallen a couple of times early in my career. I liken it to being around a poisonous snake. It seems so small and insignificant. But when hit, man there is seemingly endless amounts of time in unbearable pain. 

I am 60 2 weeks ago but I condition regularly. I played an hour and half of high level racquetball today after and 8 hour half takedown. Will finish tomorrow. My service has evolved to where I have my own truck crane, a 55 foot bucket and a 75 foot bucket. I can easily climb for 2 or 3 days a week if I need to.

Treat yourself right. Stay away from the boats and Harleys until you have got yourself equipment that makes the job easier and safer. (then buy em)


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2009)

treevet said:


> I bid a job yesterday and the neighbor just had a gypsy service come in partially remove a dead elm. They told the story of a guy climbing up a ladder and making a one handed cut while arm was around a stem. Lost grip when saw was caught in a kerf and down he went. The lady said he was really hurting then she pointed where he landed in the concrete driveway....ouch. Ambulence, and likely years of pain and disability.
> 
> I have fallen a couple of times early in my career. I liken it to being around a poisonous snake. It seems so small and insignificant. But when hit, man there is seemingly endless amounts of time in unbearable pain.
> 
> ...


Iain't too far behind ya friend good for you wish ya the best.


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## treevet (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks Rope....ditto


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## murphy4trees (Mar 24, 2009)

Greenstar,

How open are you to change?

After reading your other post about freeclimbing and using the throwline once a week, I would respectfully suggest you may not be as great a climber as you think you are. You might not have ever even seen a great climber in action... Please take that as constructive criticism meant to support you in taking your life and career to the next level.. not to put you down... 

I think there is a tendency for all climbers to think "I AM the best"... I used to think I was good back when I was 33... then I learned better... I remember watching Mark Chisholm footlock... first time I had ever seen it done... He was the world record holder at the time... My jaw dropped... That opened up a whole new world of possabilities for me.. 

For those that haven't seen world class climbers in action, I'd recommend going to a tree climbing competition.. 

Next recommendation (after raising prices) would be upgrading equipment.. Start with a real tree truck (forestry body chip truck) and a bigger chipper with a winch.. then maybe a bucket truck or skid loader... Stop working so hard and start working smarter...

Good luck with it..


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## randyg (Mar 24, 2009)

*Pain is good*

Pain is nothing more than weakness leaving the body. Yea, WHATEVER. Big storm coming really gets the joints a talking. I used to choose climbing over using the bucket to avoid the extra expense of running the bucket thinking I'm making better profit margin? Now, if the bucket fits, I take the elevator. I can land 9 out of 10 branches near the chipper, butt towards the chute from the bucket. Try that climbing and that can be one heck of a work-out. Doubt I will ever stop climbing altogether. 53 now and just plan on steady slow-down over the next 20 or 30 years. Those of us who love what we do, NEVER want to stop doing what we LOVE.

Wow, that brought tears to my eyes when I read that last sentence.


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## Greenstar (Mar 24, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> Since you asked .....
> 
> RAISE YOUR PRICES....
> 
> ...



First day of spring! Right on brother! Thanks for the spring liFT!

I hear ya on the yoga. I dont think its for sissies, and it does feel awesome. I just have a few issues, and still haven't been able to get in enough of a comfort zone to go doing it on a regular basis anymore.
My brother's a yoga instructor. And my sisters the best, and does it 4 times a week. She's Echo on Dollhouse 

Yo, are you saying that $1,000 total intake from a job is bad, or $1,000 take home for myself is?

I am wondering what is really really fair for tree work?
If I remember correctly, $75/man hr is about the going rate in Boston area. So me and another guy at a 6 hr (1-day) job equals about $900. 
I agree that I need to make more than that,
But WHAT IS REALLY FAIR?

For example... lets take a small crabapple prune for example, or one small ornamental, which can sometimes take 2 hours.. Customers sometimes have trouble paying more than $350 for something like that.
But in the end its a four-five hour affair sometimes - after estimate time, transpo there and back twice, and administrative work, and communications with the customer. Plus, I have to do all the work -trimming and cutting that is, with f-in poles, and tools... which jus kinda wear ya out, day after day after day, lifting and using. Luggin around on the site, up a tree, etc...

I get tons of $800-1,000 jobs. There are a lot of people out there with just a single tree need which they know they dont want to pay more than a thousand for, and ultimately could get someone to do for under a thousand. I find it hard to break the hump sometimes.
I end up pricing in hundreds, always throwing round numbers on things.
$1,000, $1,200. $1,400.. 
But then they sometimes end up not getting fully completed by days end. 
It breaks the schedule....
We lose a day! and I'm tired!...

Was this what it was like when you were 33 ?

I know that I need to get a more formal identity, appearance, and more official procedures together and then I know I will be able to get away with charging higher numbers and people won't even flinch I think.
I need a nice website, and porfolio of before and afters...
I need to work on my marketing!

You must be closer to a metropolitan city though, no?

I do have a lot of advertising, but need to work on my ad some. ...
I freakin missed the deadline to make changes this year, and am still stuck with last years ad, which isn't great.
Its ok, 2 inch.. bUt doesn't bling, like it used to!

Hey, we should start a thread where guys post, and discuss eachother's ads... 
That would be fun.

Peace, later!

Boston


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## arbadacarba (Mar 24, 2009)

Top guy I ever knew was a guy named Bill Williamson.(BillBill) He was still climbing when he was eighty but he looked like most guys in their late forties or early fifties. Broke his back four times, but he claimed that one didn't count because he had only fallen off a dock onto some rocks to get it. Hell of a guy!!!


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## Greenstar (Mar 25, 2009)

tree md said:


> ... The very next day I secured a $5300 job with less risk and better access.




Doing what! What size trees do you have down there!!?
Did you bid up against others on that one? E.g. were they getting more than one bid?
Do you have big advertising, or a recognizable company name?
Thats pretty big dollar for tree work! :agree2:


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## tree md (Mar 25, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Doing what! What size trees do you have down there!!?
> Did you bid up against others on that one? E.g. were they getting more than one bid?
> Do you have big advertising, or a recognizable company name?
> Thats pretty big dollar for tree work! :agree2:



3 removals, pretty large (for here), about 3' dbh. Our trees are actually quite smaller than the trees in Mass. $4500 for two Pin Oaks, one in front, one in back. Had to lower some big limbs and the top out of the one in front. had to lower three large limbs out of the tree in back. Grind two stumps and haul everything away. The other tree was an add on. Told hm I would do it for a thousand but he talked me down to $850 (which was dirt cheap) but he was an old guy and I liked him. Tree was about 2 1/2' dbh. Had to haul the wood and grind that stump as well. $5350 for the whole job. Rounded off the whole job was just below $1800 a tree which is a decent price for three large removals with stumps ground and hauled off.

And yes it was a competitive bid. The first guy bid $4500 on the original trees not to include the stumps. I said I would do it and the stumps for that price and won the bid.

I am in two yellow pages here plus I do some other advertising. I've got a good name here so I normally stay busy. Been a slow Winter though.


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## Greenstar (Mar 25, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Just put your mind beyond the pain. I about fifteen years ago broke both collar bones smashed my left scapula and dislocated my right, punctured a lung and hairline fracture in a vertebrae, that was a painful experience. DAMNNNN!! top that off with five years before that cut my right forearm to the bone getting several tendons and was only off work two months for the cut three for the other. I have pain all the time but, it is not nearly as bad as the three months recovering from the accident so I focus on that. I don't favor pain instead I work through it and is probably why I can climb disabled.



What did you do dude! :censored:! bleeeep!!! :crazy1:


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## ropensaddle (Mar 25, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> What did you do dude! :censored:! bleeeep!!! :crazy1:



Thrown from vehical 300 feet away is where I ended up!


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## Greenstar (Mar 26, 2009)

Murph, Im not trying to blow my own horn, but I cant think of a climber I've met that is better than I.
I am mean with the throw line. I took Rip and Ken's Arbormaster course with Rip Thompkins himself, and learned all his little line setting tricks. As a matter of fact, that was probably one of the biggest best things I learned in the two day course. They make you take Arbormaster I, eventhough you've been climbing for 12 years, in order to take Arbormaster II. 
_Has anyone taken 'Arbormaster II'?_

Anyway, now I CAN set a line almost anywhere in the tree, with multi-line techniques... do you know how to use two-three lines to set in a very difficult crotch?  
and the more I use it, the less attempts til I get it in the right spot. I usually get it good within three tosses, unless I haven't used it for a few weeks, and no, after the class I realized that I DO NOT need to buy a Big-shot to get it to 60', albeit its probably a little easier and more accurate in less attempts if I'm not warmed up 

I will admit that I cannot really foot lock straight up very well, and do not. I kinda blame it on the lack of any tread on my boots, all of which is worn off, and my saddle which is of the older 'bench seat' a little heavier and restrictive variety when trying to pull and move straight up makes it kinda hard when trying the foot looking action thats used to win the competitions.
I am not slow getting up there though. I am tall and lanky and get up quick. I don't stop.  But once I get to the top of the tree, I am fast and can run around the tree, move and get to cuts quickly, smoothly, safely, and efficiently.

My biggest problem is I ALWAYS do too much in the tree. I do 'Class I' prunes on just about every tree I get in, eventhough its priced for a 'Class II' or III. Its a majot fault of mine. I'm a perfectionist.

As far as the truck goes. I can fit just as many chips in my F350 than my bro can in his 11' Arbortech Topkick. His only advantage is the man-cab for storage.
I have a niche in Cambridge, MA, and Boston, inner-city, however, where all streets are small, narrow, and crowded, and most jobs would otherwise need a police detail. But because I have a smaller truck, my truck and chipper is not only MUCH shorter, and we always find a way of parking in the city where bigger trucks wouldn't have a prayer, we can often back into driveways, and don't get harassed by cops when we are on the sidewalk, BECAUSE they WOULD REQUIRE a police detail if we had a forestry truck!
We also hop on the highway all the time and travel 30mins at 75mph to do jobs outside of town, zip around town, do estimates, etc. etc. where as in a bigger rig, that is just not practical, or cost effective. I also save on parking!
So although I am torn about if and when I will buy a large forestry truck w/ a bucket most definitely if I do decide to go that route, its just not in the cards right now, and I've decided to wait and see.
I live 10 mins from Harvard Sq. and park in my driveway :rockn:
Believe me, I wish I had a yard! opcorn:

Peace men

ps. I would like to learn more though. The fastest climber going up in the course was a 5'6" little Guatemalan dude who climbs for Savatree in Conn. Kid went to regional finals! He was ill. Looked like he was skating up the rope! I would like to learn something from you too 
I've already started raising my prices  ...to 2,500 per day


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## ropensaddle (Mar 26, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Murph, Im not trying to blow my own horn, but I cant think of a climber I've met that is better than I.
> I am mean with the throw line. I took Rip and Ken's Arbormaster course with Rip Thompkins himself, and learned all his little line setting tricks. As a matter of fact, that was probably one of the biggest best things I learned in the two day course. They make you take Arbormaster I, eventhough you've been climbing for 12 years, in order to take Arbormaster II.
> _Has anyone taken 'Arbormaster II'?_
> 
> ...


Ok shewy mighty confident I will say, too a point that would make a good climber:censored:
I would like to clear up one thing, fast running through the canopy is not what makes a great climber. I have seen many fast climbers that I would not let on my jobsite. Fast means you are not taking enough time to safely piece down and cutting too many corners. I am 46 and been climbing 25 years, I am not slow but I don't cut corners. I do professional work with no bombing flower beds etc. I am fast but careful that is what makes a good climber one that retires someday. If ya really want to express your skill and sound more professional instead of sounding like a balloonhead the statement would be I may not be the best but I can climb with the best!


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 26, 2009)

Greenstar! Wow!, You are the MAN!, At least you sound like you are.
Jeff


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## Greenstar (Mar 27, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> ...If ya really want to express your skill and sound more professional instead of sounding like a balloonhead the statement would be I may not be the best but I can climb with the best!




Dude, thats not very nice!  Did you even read my whole post? I know its long! Dude, I am chill dude man. I don't rush bad. I am very VERY safe, and deliberate in my actions. I'm just smooth my man! :rockn:


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## Greenstar (Mar 27, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> Greenstar! Wow!, You are the MAN!, At least you sound like you are.
> Jeff



Yeah, can u tell I don't have a girlfriend right now! Lol... (Too much time on my hands, and too much explanation...)  Thanx tho!


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## treebreeginning (Mar 27, 2009)

*new*

just stated last year but ive been around tree work since i was in the womb my dad had his own business but i love climbing nd plan on making it my careernd im only 17


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## arbadacarba (Mar 27, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Thanks Old Chip. Thats a cool post. Thanks for the good post man.
> Just do me one favor. With all due respect, stop topping trees. Its not acceptable practice in arboriculture any longer. Science has since proven that.



Sometimes you have just have to. We get a lot of lightning strike on the tallest trees and the heads can be three to four feet in diameter where the strike damage peters out. Best to get it off as within twenty years it will come down and the longer it goes the less likely anyone will want to touch it. Just had eighty feet come down off one last year almost on a golf course near my place. ( The base of the tree is about twelve feet) Besides, they make good birdhouses!


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## oldirty (Mar 27, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> I have a niche in Cambridge, MA, and Boston, inner-city, however, where all streets are small, narrow, and crowded, and most jobs would otherwise need a police detail. But because I have a smaller truck, my truck and chipper is not only MUCH shorter, and we always find a way of parking in the city where bigger trucks wouldn't have a prayer, we can often back into driveways, and don't get harassed by cops when we are on the sidewalk, BECAUSE they WOULD REQUIRE a police detail if we had a forestry truck!



i cant tell you how many times weve been full crew, crane and buckets with chiptruck/chippers, in these parts of town with out police detail. 

we get in anywhere.



betcha i could outclimb you.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 27, 2009)

Where I work in some places in San Diego, you cannot make noise until 10am, you cannot use a blower in city limits, you cannot smoke a cigarette, Parking is impossible. Hey, I bid in the price of parking tickets and a possible fine. I also check with city hall at times to see if I need a permit. 
Jeff
(sometimes it is easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission)


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

My money's on OD...:monkey:


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> My money's on OD...:monkey:



Take a vid. No spikes allowed. opcorn:


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## ropensaddle (Mar 27, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Dude, thats not very nice!  Did you even read my whole post? I know its long! Dude, I am chill dude man. I don't rush bad. I am very VERY safe, and deliberate in my actions. I'm just smooth my man! :rockn:



If you were smooth as ya say ya would not be saying it! I mean see if your good you don't need to convince no one you are. Frankly I don't give a ratz azz if I am considered good , great etc. I know what I can do and I would surprise ya if ya thought 46 was holding me back. Now do yourself a favor find a decent girl marry and settle down and let your actions speak for ya! :monkey:


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

Hey, I'm single too. I'm taking Murph's advice and looking into a yoga class...


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 27, 2009)

Couldn't stand it today! Set the crutches at the base of the tree and played one legged treeclimber so I could try out my new hank of Velocity on an Ultratech distel. That's when Michael, my 4 yr old decided he needed a couple of aluminum spanners ( my crutches!) to build his bridge over the log jam in the driveway! I am going to have to get him a harness and a helmet next yr. If I have him "tied" to a tree then at least I will now what mischief he is getting into! My knee is a little sore but I feel like I worked off some of the softness that was creeping in. Come on May! It cannot get here fast enough.

Rope, lost a buddy that way. He didn't get thrown far enough... the car caught up with him. You notice how things move in slow motion when stuff like that happens?


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

Yoga's for sissies.  get out there and pump some iron. :monkey: haha


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> Yoga's for sissies.  get out there and pump some iron. :monkey: haha



I'd like to be pumping some logs but it's slow, slow, slow right now. Come on Spring!


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

Theres so much :censored: talking here I thought I'd add my two cents, I am definately the best treeclimber on my street , I'm so good with a throw line sometimes I get two crotches at the same time, and i haven't taken any classes for that so what ya gonna say about that sissies, oh yoga not just for girls .


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Theres so much :censored: talking here I thought I'd add my two cents, I am definately the best treeclimber on my street , I'm so good with a throw line sometimes I get two crotches at the same time, and i haven't taken any classes for that so what ya gonna say about that sissies, oh yoga not just for girls .



Any cats or squirrels on your street?:hmm3grin2orange:


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> Any cats or squirrels on your street?:hmm3grin2orange:


Ahh damn i forgot about them, never mind I'm the third best on my block...


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

My last big tree I climbed I had a squirrel come out of it's nest and run right past me coming down the spar. I was on a rope ascending so I kicked out away from the tree when he came down but I was afraid he was going to jump right on me and chew my ass up. Nearly gave me a heart attack...


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> My last big tree I climbed I had a squirrel come out of it's nest and run right past me coming down the spar. I was on a rope ascending so I kicked out away from the tree when he came down but I was afraid he was going to jump right on me and chew my ass up. Nearly gave me a heart attack...


 Don't tell anyone else that story , your gonna lose your street cred..... lol


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Don't tell anyone else that story , your gonna lose your street cred..... lol



too late!


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

Man, I did one for this old lady last year, prune job on another storm damaged Pin Oak and was cleaning a squirrel's nest out of a crotch I was trying to get into and put my hand on a dead squirrel that was in the nest. Talk about nearly jumping out of the tree. TG I was tied in. The squirrel was just hide and bone but I thought I had got ahold of the live one. I told the lady about it and she said she thought she had got him, said she had put out poison and hadn't seen him in awhile. Funny she had dogs and seemed like the kindly grandmother type. Don't know why she put the poison out. Kind of strange. Scared the crap out of me though.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

I don't like those furry critters either to hyper, they just might jump right on your face and bite your nose , once In band camp I chased one to the top of this pine, when I took out the top the Squirrel jumped to the ground and almost landed right on my brother.


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## oldirty (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> Hey, I'm single too. I'm taking Murph's advice and looking into a yoga class...



actually just started at this spot in town myself. hot yoga. vinyasa i think. couple mint birds in my class. not bad.


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> I don't like those furry critters either to hyper, they just might jump right on your face and bite your nose



Yeah, Strangely I don't mind when the beavers do that...:monkey:


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> I don't like those furry critters either to hyper, they just might jump right on your face and bite your nose , once In band camp I chased one to the top of this pine, when I took out the top the Squirrel jumped to the ground and almost landed right on my brother.



Talkin bout losin street cred TC, ....band camp....yoga...


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> Yeah, Strangely I don't mind when the beavers do that...:monkey:


 Yea I don't mind the snappers either there fun to play with down by the lake.......


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> That teach you to stick your hand in that old ladies furry crotch......



that sounds mildly erotic (lol)


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> that sounds mildly erotic (lol)



Hea there your words the way I read them, welcome to my world.


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

treevet said:


> that sounds mildly erotic (lol)



Yes it did, almost made me blow chunks. I had the misfortune of stepping into this old lady's house to collect my check. The dogs had the run of the place and the smell would knock you down. That reminds me, I got to get back out there and fertilize. I think I'll wait on the porch for my check this time...


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> Yes it did, almost made me blow chunks. I had the misfortune of stepping into this old lady's house to collect my check. The dogs had the run of the place and the smell would knock you down. That reminds me, I got to get back out there and fertilize. I think I'll wait on the porch for my check this time...


No sir, a curteous tree man would offer to wash an old ladys back, or rub her bunions if you want that fert. job your gonna have to hang out her delicates on the clothes line, aren't you such a good boy.


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> Yes it did, almost made me blow chunks. I had the misfortune of stepping into this old lady's house to collect my check. The dogs had the run of the place and the smell would knock you down. That reminds me, I got to get back out there and fertilize. I think I'll wait on the porch for my check this time...



Come on now, tree md, ya gotta give a little to get a little. Old lady's have needs too.:jawdrop:


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

When I was younger my neighbor was like eighty years old, she nagged me endlessly every different holiday to put up her damn decorations, so one time i was on my way out with my girlfriend and she called my father and told him that i forgot to put up the red santa with the light inside. I was so mad that i punched santa in the face and it broke out, for the next three or so yrs. i put him up on time every year, and chuckled to myself when i would pass by... merry christmas...


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

LOL, I'm sure we've all got stories of fending off old ladies here but I won't go there.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> My last big tree I climbed I had a squirrel come out of it's nest and run right past me coming down the spar. I was on a rope ascending so I kicked out away from the tree when he came down but I was afraid he was going to jump right on me and chew my ass up. Nearly gave me a heart attack...



Nah I have had them run down my back, over my legs never bit , however a coon is different if you happen to get in his way it can get very interesting very fast lol!


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 27, 2009)

Good night everybody a few of us have work tommorow.....


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## tree md (Mar 27, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Nah I have had them run down my back, over my legs never bit , however a coon is different if you happen to get in his way it can get very interesting very fast lol!



About 12 years ago I pulled three baby coons out of a hollow in a removal I was doing and lowered them to the ground rope. We took them to the nature center where they rehab wild critters.


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## treevet (Mar 27, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Good night everybody a few of us have work tommorow.....



I'm out too, it's been fun.


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## Raymond (Mar 28, 2009)

Damn I mess the old lady story time. I had a few too. 
Oh well I'm beat anyway, took down a monster silver maple today.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 28, 2009)

tree md said:


> About 12 years ago I pulled three baby coons out of a hollow in a removal I was doing and lowered them to the ground rope. We took them to the nature center where they rehab wild critters.



Eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so moma ? Did she get run over by a raindeer?


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 28, 2009)

tree md said:


> Yes it did, almost made me blow chunks. I had the misfortune of stepping into this old lady's house to collect my check. The dogs had the run of the place and the smell would knock you down. That reminds me, I got to get back out there and fertilize. I think I'll wait on the porch for my check this time...



I'll take a ##### over a dog any day:angel:


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 28, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> I'll take a ##### over a dog any day:angel:



I can't believe it censored the word ##### its just a cat. What's more ##### is a beautiful word ##### ##### ##### can't get enough #####!


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 28, 2009)

You know, I start reading a thread and then after a few posts the topic goes in other directions and then there is no topic, only a few guys that should either get a room or talk on the phone rather than add numbers to their posts! What the heck is going on? I don't want to come here and read about crap!
Jeff


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## Rftreeman (Mar 28, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> You know, I start reading a thread and then after a few posts the topic goes in other directions and then there is no topic, only a few guys that should either get a room or talk on the phone rather than add numbers to their posts! What the heck is going on? I don't want to come here and read about crap!
> Jeff


yep, I agree, we need a thread titled "The B/S thread"


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 28, 2009)

I am starting a new thread.
Jeff, Bye


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## oldirty (Mar 28, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am starting a new thread.
> Jeff, Bye



whats the topic gonna be?


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## tree md (Mar 28, 2009)

I vote for the fundamentals of yoga... err... How to pick up a chick at yoga class!!!


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## ropensaddle (Mar 28, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> yep, I agree, we need a thread titled "The B/S thread"



I already created one do a search! We have asdd what were we talking about oh right bs


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## treebreeginning (Mar 28, 2009)

*climbing hard on the hands*

is there any type of gloves u can use while climbing i tried using gloves before nd i had to take them right off cuzz there was no grip it just mad it worse on my hands


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## grizzly2 (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey look, a new guy got us back on topic. Those gloves with the rubber coating work well, but they don't last too long. I think the brand I use are atlas.


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## treebreeginning (Mar 30, 2009)

*thanks*

so u tried the gloves nd they work


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## grizzly2 (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, they do work pretty well. Handy in the rain. Like I said, though, they tend to wear out pretty quick. But then again, I wish I could buy one pair of gloves a year, and have them last. It's nice to dream. When they start to wear, the rubber separates a bit from the glove, then that tends to find its way into your friction knot. Good luck.


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## treebreeginning (Apr 8, 2009)

grizzly2 said:


> Yeah, they do work pretty well. Handy in the rain. Like I said, though, they tend to wear out pretty quick. But then again, I wish I could buy one pair of gloves a year, and have them last. It's nice to dream. When they start to wear, the rubber separates a bit from the glove, then that tends to find its way into your friction knot. Good luck.



when i do ground work my gloves only last 2 maybe 3 jobs i could imagine how many pairs of those things i would be buying but it would be worth it if they were cheap


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## Greenstar (Apr 9, 2009)

The rubber Atlas gloves can last a long time IF a.) you don't do groundwork with them on (have a seperate pair of leather ground gloves for those times you help the groundies, and b.) if you don't coil your rope with them on. Take them off before you coil a hundred and fifty feet of line quickly at the end of a climb. Its basically common sense, don't chafe them and they will last, chafe them carelessly throughout the day, and they will wear out.


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## grizzly2 (Apr 13, 2009)

I agree with the tips to make the gloves last longer. I found the Atlas ones lasted much longer than the cheaper ones you can get at Home Depot, or something. I only use them for climbing. I don't rig with them, and I try not to do a big rappel with them on. That'll burn 'em up fast. I probably go through about four to six pair a year. But, I can't stand gloves in the summer. I sweat enough as it is.


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## outofmytree (Apr 14, 2009)

Someone beat me to it! Darn!

Best tip for reducing hand pain is reduce the strain of gripping rope and good gloves do just that. Best gloves I have used are between $5-10 a pair ( ironclad riggers run at $40 a pair here ). They are rubber faced, cotton backed and work best if you cut off the finger tips. They are much cooler to wear that way and dont restrict your fingers for knot tying etc...

Best way to reduce torso pain is to warm up! Exercise in your spare time is a great idea but getting into the tree without spending a lousy ten minutes stretching is just asking for pain.

I see my chiropractor 4 times a year and get a deep tissue massage once a month or as required. You think your tough? Get a serious massage from a hard core masseuse and you will cry like a little girl. Do they take special courses in sadism??


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## Pelorus (Oct 7, 2013)

outofmytree said:


> Someone beat me to it! Darn!
> 
> Best tip for reducing hand pain is reduce the strain of gripping rope and good gloves do just that. Best gloves I have used are between $5-10 a pair ( ironclad riggers run at $40 a pair here ). They are rubber faced, cotton backed and work best if you cut off the finger tips. They are much cooler to wear that way and dont restrict your fingers for knot tying etc...
> 
> ...



Test post


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## Panama (Oct 10, 2013)

Everyone is different. How long we can keep climbing depends on many factors, some we can control, some we cannot. 52 and climbing over 20. Never flew a bucket nor used a crane (yet). I offer the following tips from an old climber.
- Use grip gloves. *Being macho will only hurt your body*.
- Take the time to do it carefully. Zero damage means zero $ and time spent fixing damage, not to mention your reputation, and if it's your body damaged you may be out of work.
*Listen to your body*.
- If you hands go numb, your saw is vibrating too much or you are pushing to cut with a dull chain (usually both). Run only smooth cutting chains that are sharp enough to feed themselves without being pushed. The gloves help reduce the damage.
- Hard work makes us different than the average couch potato. Two years ago I was told my heart was stopping in my sleep (happened 25-30 times up to two minutes), and had a pacemaker installed. The same week, my heart doctor diagnosed me with some technical name for Low Sodium. Said I was sweating out all my salt and it had damaged the channel between my SA node and my heart. Told me to SALT MY FOOD MORE or take a salt tablet daily. I immediately started salting my food more and it FIXED the problem. My pacemaker only keeps my heart from dropping below 40 beats per min, and it has never once had to work. My point is we are not the ones on the couch that the American heart association is speaking to when they preach a low sodium diet. Hardly anyone sweats out ten pounds of liquid per day, every day any more. If your sweat isn't salty, you may need more salt, especially if you sweat profusely. I ease off the salt in winter as my sweat is once again salty. 
- Lastly, learn from someone else that took years to figure out what to do or not to do to keep going. I did, and I am still learning from you folks. Thanks! BTW, I know personally how hard it is to not be macho. I slipped and had a short fall the day after getting the pacemaker installed and they came unglued about me working. A check revealed I was ok and had not pulled the wires out of my heart, but I should have took it easy for at least a few days of the recommended two weeks. Macho will hurt you. EDIT: Forgot to say, if gloves are too hot for you, cut off the finger tips and the cuffs. It's the only way i can wear them in the heat, makes them MUCH cooler.


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## Grouchy old man (Oct 10, 2013)

Gotta laugh. My father-in-law got a pacemaker a few months ago and the "instruction" book that came with is says never to use a chainsaw.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 7, 2013)

Just be safe, eat well, keep in shape, that's all you can do.


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## Big L (Nov 24, 2013)

A local tree guy took this red oak down at my home yesterday, no access for a bucket truck ... so a climbing he went. He's 56 years young, and with this 54 year old groundie, the tree was down in about 2 hours. Nice work!

.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 24, 2013)

Number2 is a great picture , the tree pic not the old man flexing !


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## Big L (Nov 24, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Number2 is a great picture , the tree pic not the old man flexing !



It looks great because about 15' beyond that tree is a 120' drop-off cliff ... nice clear background


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## beastmaster (Nov 24, 2013)

I climb 5 to 7 days a week. I work for some really great local companies, I get top wages for the work I do. I work with people half my age most the time and like being a mentor of sorts to them. I never use gloves. I keep up on the latest climbing techniques and the only thing "Old School" about me is my age. I'm coming up to 56 years old. I
've been climbing for over 30+. 
I know I'm getting up there in age. I at some time should try to get into management and out of the trees, but man I love climbing trees and take my job serious.
What the mind can conceive, the body can achieve.


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## adrenaline junkie (Nov 28, 2013)

I have only climbed for 2 years but have done concrete work for 7 years. I also competed in a lot of mma fights and grappling since I was 20. Im 31. I twisted a vertebrae and crunched one in lower and middle back when I was 22. All I can say is do whatever makes you feel better. Yoga is great. This business builds imbalances and you need to keep it in check. I follow russian style. Books like super joints or relax into stretch. Cheap and worth it. Also glc 2000 pharmaceutical grade glucosamine. I've seem to many old timers spent from years of climbing. Although i did know of guy who was 66 whos rope was cut by ground guy. He fell like 40 ft shattered his legs. He was climbing again in 6 months. But he took really good care of himself and his body healed quick. Take care of yourself guys and be safe.
My friend coach and inspiration to not stop. Numerous knee surgeries and shoulder surgeries. Hip replacement and sciatica but stretches and does things to keep going. Hes 57.


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## adrenaline junkie (Nov 28, 2013)

Me after doctor said 11 years ago i needed back surgery and would have to quit hard labor and competing. Dont listen to them. Do your own research and keep going. Inversion tables are great. Reverse effects of hours in saddle tied in.


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## treesmith (Nov 29, 2013)

Foundation training is very effective for addressing back problems including discs, back pain, sciatica, leg muscle issues and more, it teaches proper use of back muscles and glute/hamstrings. Egoscue method is brilliant for addressing imbalances in muscles and posture problems, most of us are one side dominant which can cause stresses and pain, bad movement patterns and more


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## adrenaline junkie (Nov 30, 2013)

I'll have to look into that. Thanks!


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## derwoodii (Dec 3, 2013)

Climbing at 17 was great fun, at 27 i thought was at my prime, at 37 reckon was time to find other ways to make $, at 47 this is just too hard and I now do it just for kicks and the exercise, At 51 now i still rope n saddle up but rarely and only when I want . The back n body held together along the way no real harm done i'm just dumb lucky


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## since16 (Dec 4, 2013)

I used to work for my uncle doing trees. He was in his mid 50's the only climber 3 ground guys. He was crippled as a teenager one leg 4" shorter than the other one hip barely turned and a shoulder not fully functional. He climbed with all arms used his legs just to stabilize biggest pole saw they sold! He hired a climber a few years later and only quit doing tree work when he got ran over by a distracted driver. I don't know why he never bought a bucket truck?


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## cjtreeclimber (Dec 11, 2013)

This has been my new found passion for about 4 years now. What I think has been getting me is cracking too many cold ones and doing all my own ground work. 
Also my neck started acting up about a year ago and through the past 2 months I was in so much pain and started losing streangeth in my arms, but Since I've been getting my adjustments from a chiropractor lately I'm about 87 percent of what I was a year ago; though. New climbing and rigging skills + plus equipment takes a lot of stress away for me. Also, had a friend tell me something that makes alot of sense "Work Slow, Think FAST". I have an idea about pacing yourself now, making the right choices, cuts, and so forth in the canopy, Could make the job a breeze. I sure would say its easier being in a tree than doing ground work and the landscape business work what a tiresome job that was! I Anticipate adapting to it smoothly so as to be able to stick to it until 80 or so. I can have 2 3 days of work and make what most people do in a weak or two it seems.


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2013)

Used to be a 3 sport athelete in hs and some college. Afterwards military and then found tree work and karate. Then in 1976 I discovered racquetball. 2 leagues a week all year, plus pick up matches for 35 plus years and you want to stay in shape to not lose and it gives you a good gauge of what shape you are in weekly. Diet, weights and run/bike with rball, where you can still be a competitive athelete. Match usually lasts 1 1/2 hrs and at top levels of sport, you are beat when finished. All muscles and conditioning translates to climbing etc. Equipment and membership not real expensive either.


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## oldugly (Dec 13, 2013)

started tree work in 76, started climbing in 77. Doing the math it makes me kind of old. Still climbing, crushed my hand a couple of years ago and decided to hire some climbing help...it was more work watching them, coaching them, then it was to do it myself with one bad hand. Still climb, but prefer to use the bucket truck. Probably climb about six hours a day max, before I got to stop. 
Guessing that puts me in about the 36 year mark of climbing experience. I would quit, but I wasn't quite smart enough to learn to do anything else.


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2013)

Don't sell yourself short. Beats working in a cubicle....and some days it borders on a great job.


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## oldugly (Dec 13, 2013)

treevet said:


> Don't sell yourself short. Beats working in a cubicle....and some days it borders on a great job.


 Thanks, but actually that was more of a feeble attempt at humor, than anything else. 
Most days I love what I do, and actually am quite proud that at my age I can still do it.


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2013)

I am 65 in Feb and can climb every day (have wraptor will travel and can climb like a madman downhill), have 2 buckets and a crane and can spike all day every day. Don't know why...just can. Injury free this year too. But I can handle mass pain.


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## oldugly (Dec 13, 2013)

That impresses me. and I am not easily (almost never) impressed. I feel multiple pains every day, but keep going. Starting to move business in the direction of tree healthcare, but its a slow process in our area, people are very suspscious of "snake oil salesmen".


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm wondering if this is for real - http://www.tommiecopper.com/


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## oldugly (Dec 13, 2013)

don't know if their claims are for real or not, but I've been thinking about Tommie copper a lot lately.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 13, 2013)

Sweet - give it a shot and tell us if it works or not.


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## squad143 (Dec 13, 2013)

Everyone is different. My knees are my weak point now (I'm 51) and have been climbing since 1988 (mainly part-time, but almost full-time hrs. in the last 5 yrs). Having OA in my knees now. -Twenty years of motocross (10 as a pro) plus skiing since I was a kid and tree work have all taken their toll. I get Durolane injections every 6 months. Had both knees done today. Eases the pain/discomfort and protects the knees, hopefully making them last for some more time.


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## cjtreeclimber (Dec 13, 2013)

Today I felt great And I'm kinda thinking that its because I decided to run on foot to the store the night before and got me a cold one and cracked it! I think neck posture is important for me. Haven't been running in quite some time. I've always been told as a runner growing up that I have excellent running posture, so that Might have helped me with my neck a bit, plus getting all the blood flowing through the muscles. Today I had to buck my way in chunks down a 2 1/2 thick spar with my 3120xp and move around all of whats left of the nubs from the large crotch what a hassle but I didn't get sore at all. The only problem where I think I start hurting is when im looking down at all the ground guys and telling them what to do . . If they would just listen and try to be as cool as I am I wouldn't have these kneck pains, So with that said, my main point is try running on foot to the store for a good cold one to crack open. GEts the juices flowin!


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## treevet (Dec 14, 2013)

My back hurts sometimes after doing a craner esp if I am doing a lot of work by the ball (not balls mfers lol). Your torso moves around a lot and stresses your back and you can't move below the waste like you usually can.

Also beware of all the pull starts with high comp saws. Esp sometimes the comp release doesn't work. I got what's called trigger finger (f'd up tendons that catch and snap on the knuckle and hurt) on both index fingers and the right f you finger. Could be operated on but who can take off a couple of months in their lives. I have used up all the steroid shots in both hands for life...just take the pain sometimes.


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## oldugly (Dec 15, 2013)

I'll be turning 55 in a couple of weeks. Pain is kind of the normal, but how long can we keep going...i guess that depends on your own personal pain tolerance level, amount of ibuprofens your system can handle, and your lifestyle. I personally smoke, so after 40+ years of doing that I get a little winded after a few hours, or a tall climb. Cold weather affects me more now also. Here its been below zero for over a week, and I just can't take that like I use to...had to even stop deer hunting for awhile until it warms up some. 
If its too cold to hunt..definitely too cold to work.


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## treevet (Dec 15, 2013)

Taking the pain to work incl. real cold/hot goes hand in hand with taking the pain to work out which is WAY more difficult when you a geezer...but I never stopped., which may be the key.


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## NYTREECLIMBER (Dec 15, 2013)

treevet said:


> Taking the pain to work incl. real cold/hot goes hand in hand with taking the pain to work out which is WAY more difficult when you a geezer...but I never stopped., which may be the key.


It's like that commercial for some medicine on T V that's says a body in motion stays in motion and a body at rest tends to stay that way . Just keep going till you can't .


Sent from my I phone 9


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## capetrees (Dec 15, 2013)

But the bigger question is what's next? We all have to pack it in at some point and then what? Do we go completely different or do we stay in the tree industry some way? Go to work for a big outfit with a guaranteed check for less money or what?


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 16, 2013)

capetrees said:


> Go to work for a big outfit with a guaranteed check for less money or what?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


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## treevet (Dec 16, 2013)

I am in transition for maybe 5 years now. Bought a bigger property, putting together multiple units and run 2 or 3 crews to start. Shouldn't be hard given all the customers I got and all I got to do is just lower prices a little as I am always in the high range of the bids. I am looking forward to just managing.


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## beastmaster (Dec 16, 2013)

Though I'm still going strong at 55 , I know someday I'll have to do something else. I don't have no retirement,or pension, and have about enough money saved to last two weeks. I climb or don't eat. I'v giving some thought to working for some big Company in management, but I'm pretty independent and not sure how that would fly. Lately I'v giving a lot of thought to starting a little one man show. 
I'v been doing little side jobs for ever and a day. It might be nice to just go in and prune a few small trees and call it a day. I'm studying for my contractors lic. and slowly starting to collect equipment.
I think there might be a place for a high quality small personal professional tree care company. I know several people who have offered me chances to buy out their companys, with nothing down, but I don't want the stress of running a business with to much going on. I had a nice tree service at one time, and it consumed me and almost gave me a nervous breakdown.


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## cjtreeclimber (Dec 16, 2013)

I've been thinking of staying real light myself. Part of me wants to somehow muster up the money to purchase a diesel truck and a 24 foot bed with sides, and the other part of me wants to just stay real light and maybe even sell off some other things, which would be a lot less stressful with My three saws, climbing and rigging gear maybe is all I need can fit in the back of a little gas saver sedan and then I could just freelance . . . IDK 

I've made up my mind on one thing though . . . the cold one's cracken been dinscontinued. No more Beers. I've gone to far into this trade to turn around I think.


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## NYTREECLIMBER (Dec 16, 2013)

capetrees said:


> But the bigger question is what's next? We all have to pack it in at some point and then what? Do we go completely different or do we stay in the tree industry some way? Go to work for a big outfit with a guaranteed check for less money or what?


Hopefully what's next is retirement,or how I like to see it fishing full time.


Sent from my I phone 9


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## cjtreeclimber (Dec 16, 2013)

If I go down I go down with a chainsaw in my hand in a blaze of glory dammit!


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 17, 2013)

Ya gotta make a choice, work to live or live to work. I would like a job as a GF or a Ops Manager at a private bigger show. That would be sweet. But there are none around here, so I will just get on welfare soon and let yall do it for me! Not kidding either, constantly see welfare kings and queens without a care in the world. Free food, free money, free phone, free utilities, free cable, free rent, free clothes............free everything. Why should we work so hard, risk our lives,when all we gotta do is go and fill out some papers and sit on the couch, pop out some more babys and play x-box. Makes me realize I am a fool and they are the smart ones! PS, going to get me one of those little carts so when I go to da wal mart, I can ride around ask strangers to put stuff in the basket for me. "hey, can u hand me that big block of cheese"


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 17, 2013)

Oh yeah, its called pride, never mind.


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## oldugly (Dec 17, 2013)

Was that Michelle in that video? It sure looked and sounded like our first lady.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 17, 2013)

oldugly said:


> Was that Michelle in that video? It sure looked and sounded like our first lady.


No, that lady smiled. The first lady is in a prison and has the death stare now, just ask her.........while she is on her much deserved 17 day vaca.


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## oldugly (Dec 17, 2013)

sgreanbeans said:


> No, that lady smiled. The first lady is in a prison and has the death stare now, just ask her.........while she is on her much deserved 17 day vaca.


yeah she deserves a vacation, afterall it is work turning a republic into a socialist monarchy


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## Zale (Dec 17, 2013)

Tonight I'm officially retiring after I win the Mega Millions.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 17, 2013)

If I'd have known I was gonna live this long...


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 17, 2013)

MasterBlaster said:


> If I'd have known I was gonna live this long...



Ha, good one!
I was 16 when I started climbing, went into management at 42.
I swore I was gonna climb until I die,, but then came wife and kids,,I was blindsided and knew what I should do.
I am know almost 53 and been the op's guy for almost 13 years with one of the best in So-Cal.
I have a lot I want to accomplish and the best way for me is to move up,,,
Jeff


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## oldugly (Dec 18, 2013)

I guess I am retired...I worked until I was tired yesterday, and I'll work until I'm tired today..so I am re-tired.
Okay bad joke, but I tried.


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## treevet (Dec 18, 2013)

oldugly said:


> I guess I am retired...I worked until I was tired yesterday, and I'll work until I'm tired today..so I am re-tired.
> Okay bad joke, but I tried.



that is a better than average joke


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## oldugly (Dec 18, 2013)

The ignorance of youth says..."I'll never grow old"
The ignorance of the mature says..."I wish I was younger"
The ignorance of the aged says..."If I knew then what I know now...I would have done it different".
The facts are this...the young will grow old, the mature would only tear their body up worse if they were younger again, and the aged would lose the fun of learning what they did how they did. In all these things I am guilty, but have become content to be " old tired mean and ugly"
Old....a priviledge not enjoyed by everyone.
tired...being tired, and self-employed is a sign of a certain degree of success
mean...my God-given right as an American who has been trampled by power hungry politicians and inglorious media moguls
ugly...a proud family heritage that was never passed to my kids.


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